# Don't need to ask her if she would shoot.



## WilliamH (May 21, 2004)

CHL owner gets one.

http://www.chron.com/news/houston-t...ds-in-fatal-shooting-in-NW-Harris-3871363.php


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## adpostel (Jan 14, 2006)

WOOPS!! No Bangy Ladys Window!!


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## KEN KERLEY (Nov 13, 2006)

The equalizer was doing a ride-along.


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## iridered2003 (Dec 12, 2005)

good, bet he dont try that again?


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## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

One of the reports said there was a passenger in the pick up truck too. If so, that could make things interesting when the grand jury hears the case.


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## Quepos1 (Jan 21, 2011)

Mont said:


> One of the reports said there was a passenger in the pick up truck too. If so, that could make things interesting when the grand jury hears the case.


Clearly it will depend on how the DA's office presents it to the grand jury. While the old saying the DA could get a grand jury is true, it is equally true the DA can get a no bill it he wants.


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## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

Quepos1 said:


> Clearly it will depend on how the DA's office presents it to the grand jury. While the old saying the DA could get a grand jury is true, it is equally true the DA can get a no bill it he wants.


My point was more towards that dead man may have had a witness sitting next to him before he decided to step out of his truck. If so, the old "dead men tell no tales" theory won't necessarily apply. Having an eyewitness can make a world of difference in a situation involving a death.


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## iridered2003 (Dec 12, 2005)

Mont said:


> My point was more towards that dead man may have had a witness sitting next to him before he decided to step out of his truck. If so, the old "dead men tell no tales" theory won't necessarily apply. Having an eyewitness can make a world of difference in a situation involving a death.


yea, she should have shot him to. but i understand what your saying


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## Stuart (May 21, 2004)

Not enough info, but she may want to lawyer up, no-bill or not.


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## Quepos1 (Jan 21, 2011)

Stuart said:


> Not enough info, but she may want to lawyer up, no-bill or not.


Oh I agree. Even with a no bill she is vulnerable to a civil suit. Of course that depends on her assets and/or insurance. A plaintiff attorney wont take the case unless there is something there to collect in the event of an award.


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## MEGABITE (May 21, 2004)

Quepos1 said:


> Even with a no bill she is vulnerable to a civil suit.


http://www.rc123.com/texas_castle_doctrine.html


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## iridered2003 (Dec 12, 2005)

im more then sure its not the first time the dead man has done something like this, its just the first time he ran into someone with a gun and defended themself. its kinda like, its the first time you got caught. nevre run up on someone like that.


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## poppadawg (Aug 10, 2007)

Can you shoot someone for beating on your window? Couldnt you call the cops? Or drive off? Sounds like she is in a heap of trouble to me. The one thing she definitely has going for her is that she is a woman


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## MEGABITE (May 21, 2004)

She is under no obligation to flee from an assailant and how fast do you think the cops would've gotten there?


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## iridered2003 (Dec 12, 2005)

MEGABITE said:


> She is under no obligation to flee from an assailant and how fast do you think the cops would've gotten there?


thank you. maybe she couldn't get away?? run??


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## fishinguy (Aug 5, 2004)

poppadawg said:


> Can you shoot someone for beating on your window? Couldnt you call the cops? Or drive off? Sounds like she is in a heap of trouble to me. The one thing she definitely has going for her is that she is a woman


You can, if he is assaulting her vehicle and "terrorizing" her then she has the right to defend herself. If the report that he was banging on her car and was doing so in a violent manner then she would be justified in shooting him. Sad situation, people need to keep their cool out there, this is a stupid reason for losing a life.


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## FishinTheBarge (May 21, 2004)

Might be a problem if does go grand, and can be proven she was not blocked in and could have driven away.


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## INTOTHEBLUE (Jun 21, 2011)

Doesn't seem like there is enough info to even be able say she is in trouble or not. It only says they had traffic accident and he beat her glass and got shot. Did the guy hit her or vice versa? 

I bet she was putting on makeup or texting and driving and rear ended him. Then when they pulled into the gas station he simply walked up to the car and tapped on the glass for her to roll down the window and exchange insurance info. Then bang. 

or

He hit her and acted a fool and got out and beat her window. Then bang.


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## fishinguy (Aug 5, 2004)

INTOTHEBLUE said:


> Doesn't seem like there is enough info to even be able say she is in trouble or not. It only says they had traffic accident and he beat her glass and got shot. Did the guy hit her or vice versa?
> 
> I bet she was putting on makeup or texting and driving and rear ended him. Then when they pulled into the gas station he simply walked up to the car and tapped on the glass for her to roll down the window and exchange insurance info. Then bang.
> 
> ...


It doesn't really say if he was beating on her glass in a threatening manner. I kind of assume he was because there are so many stupid people out there that think they own the road and are looking to get into an altercation. However she could be suffering from as much rage as he was and when he approach the car she blasted him more out of anger than fear. It is was out of anger and not fear then she is a criminal.


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## poppadawg (Aug 10, 2007)

In texas, if she was touched in any manner, or if he even just broke the glass, she walks. But if he was just banging on the window, I dunno.


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## Lipless Crankbait (Mar 24, 2007)

sounds like a little clorine in the gene pool to me


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## Stuart (May 21, 2004)

FishinTheBarge said:


> Might be a problem if does go grand, and can be proven she was not blocked in and could have driven away.


Not an expert, but the Castle Doctrine says you don't have to retreat.

I think it will come down to whether the jury believes she acted according to the perceived threat. Who knows, maybe she wrecked into him and he's been trying to get her to stop for miles. Could a prosecutor then say he was provoked? I dunno.

Just because a law allows you to do something, doesn't always make it the smartest choice.


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## Part Timer (Jul 2, 2012)

poppadawg said:


> In texas, if she was touched in any manner, or if he even just broke the glass, she walks. But if he was just banging on the window, I dunno.


Was she supposed to wait till he broke the glass in on her? im sure that's the stance they will take if she does get charged


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## MEGABITE (May 21, 2004)

It has been reported she was on the phone with 911 when she shot.


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## iridered2003 (Dec 12, 2005)

MEGABITE said:


> It has been reported she was on the phone with 911 when she shot.


sounds like she covered her bases before she shot. i mean, after all, she has a CHL and sounds like she knew how to use it.


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## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

http://www.khou.com/news/local/Man-shot-dead-outside-Harris-County-gas-station-170022816.html



> A passenger in the pickup truck witnessed the incident.


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## Jeff SATX (Jan 18, 2011)

hopefully the Shell station had surveillance cameras. i also feel sorry for her having to shoot her weapon INSIDE of her car, i bet that left a bit of a headache!


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## FREON (Jun 14, 2005)

Article says she shot him through the passenger side window, and yet there is no dammage to the window in the picture. maybe the rear window?


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## Part Timer (Jul 2, 2012)

I like reading all the comments under stories like this. really makes you see how many people disregard the fact that there are laws that say you can protect yourself and if people use them that does not make them murders. go check them out on monts link he just posted.


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## Part Timer (Jul 2, 2012)

FREON said:


> Article says she shot him through the passenger side window, and yet there is no dammage to the window in the picture. maybe the rear window?


it says drivers side. read monts link to the story


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## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

FREON said:


> Article says she shot him through the passenger side window, and yet there is no dammage to the window in the picture. maybe the rear window?


One shot, about half way up, to the very front of the drivers window is what I saw a picture of. Unless she put two rounds through the same hole.


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## FREON (Jun 14, 2005)

Oops!


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

That shot placement is very strange. Very high on the window and almost hit the door/windshield dividing pillar. At that angle and from the drivers seat, he would almost have been standing by the front tire/near the hood, not at the door window and thus the door handle so that he could open the door to attack her. That even brings up more questions. Very sad series of events with an even more sad outcome.


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## fishinguy (Aug 5, 2004)

here is the window


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## poppadawg (Aug 10, 2007)

Murder? Sounds like she's a young mom that was scared out of her mind. And he was acting like a lunitic. She probably shouldn't have shot, but he shouldnt be acting like a enraged mad man either. Cuz that will get you shot.


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## Bluewaterbound (Aug 3, 2006)

I'm not condoning the actions of the dead man if he indeed was banging on the window of the female shooters car . However, there are many circumstances surrounding the altercation that leads me to believe that she acted a little to soon with using deadly force.

1) This took place after 7 am on one of the busiest streets in Harris County with plenty of people around , parked in a gas station parking lot with plenty of onlookers. 

2) By all the reports, the man was unarmed (other than his fists) and it doesn't say that he physically broke the glass of her window with his hands or anything else for that matter. 

3) She had a cell phone and was on the phone with 911 and her car was driveable (meaning she could have moved the car)

4) Did she maybe think of honking the horn or driving up to the door of the shell station to attract attention while honking the horn ????

Now if the dead man in question exerted enough force to break the glass of the window of the assumed locked door on the car, than "BOOM" your dead !!!! Justifiable shooting for sure. 

All I'm saying is this happened during daylight in a heavy traffic gas station parking lot. Unless the man was brandishing a weapon, I doubt any harm would have come to her with her door locked in a car whose engine was running and easily able to move within the parking lot of a busy service station ???? 

I think the altercation could have been handled without killing anyone involved. 

That being said, I wasn't there , but sounds unwarranted from what I have been told.


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## Rack Ranch (May 25, 2004)

Not really, he could have been standing there beating on the drivers side windshield... Either way sad for her.. I know all you 2cool guys talk like your billy bad a's and could shoot any body any time but dealing with the fact that you killed someone can weigh on your mind for a very long time..prayers for all involved...



HydraSports said:


> That shot placement is very strange. Very high on the window and almost hit the door/windshield dividing pillar. At that angle and from the drivers seat, he would almost have been standing by the front tire/near the hood, not at the door window and thus the door handle so that he could open the door to attack her. That even brings up more questions. Very sad series of events with an even more sad outcome.


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## BullyARed (Jun 19, 2010)

Bluewaterbound said:


> I'm not condoning the actions of the dead man if he indeed was banging on the window of the female shooters car . However, there are many circumstances surrounding the altercation that leads me to believe that she acted a little to soon with using deadly force.
> 
> 1) This took place after 7 am on one of the busiest streets in Harris County with plenty of people around , parked in a gas station parking lot with plenty of onlookers.
> 
> ...


Well said. The woman will face murder charge.


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## poppadawg (Aug 10, 2007)

Maybe she should have stuck with a taser. Lethal force is not for everyone


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## Gluconda (Aug 25, 2005)

Just because the LAW says that you can...doesn't mean you have to do it at any given chance.

Tragic!


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## MEGABITE (May 21, 2004)

HydraSports said:


> That shot placement is very strange. Very high on the window and almost hit the door/windshield dividing pillar. At that angle and from the drivers seat, he would almost have been standing by the front tire/near the hood, not at the door window and thus the door handle so that he could open the door to attack her. That even brings up more questions. Very sad series of events with an even more sad outcome.


Seems like if he was standing near the front of the car the bullet hole would've been through the windshield to me. Perhaps she was short and he was standing by her side mirror. Just another scenario to consider.


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## Stuart (May 21, 2004)

HydraSports said:


> That shot placement is very strange. Very high on the window and almost hit the door/windshield dividing pillar. At that angle and from the drivers seat, he would almost have been standing by the front tire/near the hood, not at the door window and thus the door handle so that he could open the door to attack her. That even brings up more questions. Very sad series of events with an even more sad outcome.


I disagree. That's a pretty high angle from a seated position to where the hole is. He'd have to be very close. My guess is he got hit in the upper extremities.

If the police got there quickly and separated the witness in the truck from any other witnesses _and_ his story lines up with any other witnesses, then that will be key no matter which way it goes.


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## Quepos1 (Jan 21, 2011)

Just because there is a law known as Castle Doctrine doesn't mean it is smart to invoke it. It truly should be a last resort action.

I don't know all the facts nor does anyone who has posted on this thread but it seems there was a great deal of common sense missing by all parties.


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## MEGABITE (May 21, 2004)

From Channel 2
"Detectives said the man tried to open a door to the woman's car."


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## MEGABITE (May 21, 2004)

Quepos1 said:


> Just because there is a law known as Castle Doctrine doesn't mean it is smart to invoke it. It truly should be a last resort action.


I agree, but if it is determined she acted in self defense, the Castle Law will shield her from a civil suit, contrary to what you stated earlier.


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## mstrelectricman (Jul 10, 2009)

First of all, a person does not have to be a Christian to be a good person. That was info added to the story that was not needed and sounds like padding.
Second, if she is a good person then she will suffer mentally from this incident.
I'll pray for all involved cause they all need help.


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## iridered2003 (Dec 12, 2005)

MEGABITE said:


> From Channel 2
> "Detectives said the man tried to open a door to the woman's car."


yea and was kicking it also. he got what he got.


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## tbone2374 (Feb 27, 2010)

poppadawg said:


> Can you shoot someone for beating on your window? Couldnt you call the cops? Or drive off? Sounds like she is in a heap of trouble to me. The one thing she definitely has going for her is that she is a woman


 I agree 100%


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## BullyARed (Jun 19, 2010)

Originally Posted by *poppadawg*  
_Can you shoot someone for beating on your window? Couldnt you call the cops? Or drive off? Sounds like she is in a heap of trouble to me. The one thing she definitely has going for her is that she is a woman_



tbone2374 said:


> I agree 100%


Murder one. Book her, Danno.


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## TranTheMan (Aug 17, 2009)

Picture posted by the fishinguy seems to indicate a panic shot or an accidental discharge. The round almost hit the car door's column.


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## MEGABITE (May 21, 2004)

BullyARed said:


> Murder one. Book her, Danno.


First degree murder ? So she planned it all ahead of time?


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## Stinging Bee (Apr 8, 2012)

This report says the man broke her window!!!! Seems justified if true!!!

http://cdn.localwireless.com/wap/news/text.jsp?sid=25&nid=4028434839&cid=58&scid=-1


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## Quepos1 (Jan 21, 2011)

Just saw segment about it on the news and they said it was all on video and the deceased pounded on her window so hard he broke it before she shot him. Detective reviewed the video of the gas station and sent her home. I guess we will wait and see.


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## ralph7 (Apr 28, 2009)

i bet "huh?" will be her most spoken word from here on out. :smile:


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## fishinguy (Aug 5, 2004)

If they did not arrest her on scene there was likely something that corroborated her story. I bet no bill.


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## devil1824 (Sep 4, 2010)

Castle Law? She has her CHL.


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## manwitaplan (Dec 9, 2005)

Bluewaterbound said:


> I'm not condoning the actions of the dead man if he indeed was banging on the window of the female shooters car . However, there are many circumstances surrounding the altercation that leads me to believe that she acted a little to soon with using deadly force.
> 
> 1) This took place after 7 am on one of the busiest streets in Harris County with plenty of people around , parked in a gas station parking lot with plenty of onlookers. *So what people get attacked in broad daylight everyday!*
> 
> ...


 *Yes very unwarranted, as a matter of fact everything you have been told looks strange now due to the police letting her go home. HHHMMMMMMM

*Why is it that good law abiding citizens always end up looking like the bad guy when garbage like this happens. Stand up for yourself AMERICA, there is a bunch of folks who want to keep ya down.

Have a wonderful day!

Manwitaplan


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## CoastalOutfitters (Aug 20, 2004)

Nice to know that there was absolutely no way that the woman in question could have caused the road rage/wreck in the first place because she had a CHL.


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## boom! (Jul 10, 2004)

CoastalOutfitters said:


> Nice to know that there was absolutely no way that the woman in question could have caused the road rage/wreck in the first place because she had a CHL.


She may or may not have caused it, but she dayum well sure was more prepared for it. She was in her car and he was out banging on her window. I bet that I can predict how the grand jury is going to vote.


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## The1ThatGotAway (Jun 24, 2009)

Like I say all the time... Stop and ask yourself, IS THIS WORTH DYING OVER?


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## CoastalOutfitters (Aug 20, 2004)

just thinking out loud here, we weren't there , not enough info

woman in question is texting and putting on makeup and changes lanes w/o signaling and takes out man in questions truck , he is obv. highly pee'od and bangs on her roof because he is now late for work and now takes a dirt nap over it.


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## boom! (Jul 10, 2004)

CoastalOutfitters said:


> just thinking out loud here, we weren't there , not enough info
> 
> woman in question is texting and putting on makeup and changes lanes w/o signaling and takes out man in questions truck , he is obv. highly pee'od and bangs on her roof because he is now late for work and now takes a dirt nap over it.


Yup, do stupid stuff get stupid prize.


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## Archer (Jul 10, 2006)

FishinTheBarge said:


> Might be a problem if does go grand, and can be proven she was not blocked in and could have driven away.


Try again, under Texas Law your vehicle is covered the same as your house, there is no requirement to retreat if you feel your life is in danger.

From the article she was already concerned enough by his actions to call 911 before stopping. I can tell you right now that if you charge my vehicle, begin pounding on the window and attempting to open my door I will not be waiting to see if you actually break the glass or force the door, you will be shot where you stand, end of story.


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## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

she deserves no jail time, hot heads trying to attack women deserve dirt naps.

I hope she gets off and I hope she can forgive herself and move on with her life. Some other dumbass in this world just ruined her life. Now how sad is that?


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## gvmtcheez (Dec 14, 2011)

InfamousJ said:


> she deserves no jail time, hot heads trying to attack women deserve dirt naps.
> 
> I hope she gets off and I hope she can forgive herself and move on with her life. Some other dumbass in this world just ruined her life. Now how sad is that?


 x2


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## reeltimer (Feb 5, 2010)

She did good in my opinion.I'm wondering if Qx is gonna handle this one and which side he is gonna take.I saw that dirt bag this afternoon defending what the protestor over in the Middle peace my arse were doing at the embassies.


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## Zereaux (Jul 18, 2006)

One thing for sure, he won't be getting "road rage" anymore...

I find it hard to to understand how some of you can contort yourselves trying to defend the idiot and accuse the woman of 1st degree murder, all without the perspective of being there and witnessing what happened.


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## red maniac (Jun 17, 2008)

Dead man got what he deserved. Stupidity can get you killed! She did the right thing.


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## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

Im not going to comment on what is right and wrong, because I wasnt there.... 

But what if she had been a HE? 

or even worse... if the he had been a SHE?

Its the same law on the books regardless of gender, but I think alot of opinions would change on here.


Definetely feel sorry for the girl and the man's family.... wild how something so minor can have such a HUGE impact on the lives of everyone.


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## Fish&Chips (Jan 27, 2012)

She feared for her life and did what she had to do.


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## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

we live in a messed up world... protect yourself at all costs, answer questions later, carry a big insurance policy.


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## fishingtwo (Feb 23, 2009)

channel 13 will air a witness that does not back up the shooters account.


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## Profish00 (May 21, 2004)

Bet he never does that again.


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## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

I will say this... if this is a bad shoot and with the recent nationalization of the Rodriguez CHL shooting case and the Zimmerman CHL shooting case, we could all be in alot of trouble. 

The media will sensationalize the hell out of it. I dont know if any of yall caught the big special they did on 20/20 about the Huffman incident the other night, but it painted a pretty sour picture of CHL holders and what they consider "vigilante" style laws.


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## Zereaux (Jul 18, 2006)

justinsfa said:


> I will say this... if this is a bad shoot and with the recent nationalization of the Rodriguez CHL shooting case and the Zimmerman CHL shooting case, we could all be in alot of trouble.
> 
> The media will sensationalize the hell out of it. I dont know if any of yall caught the big special they did on 20/20 about the Huffman incident the other night, but it painted a pretty sour picture of CHL holders and what they consider "vigilante" style laws.


Yes, and all this armchair speculation does is feed the monster...


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## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

As mentioned, there is supposedly a neutral 3rd party witness that is going to talk on Channel 13 (Houston) in their top story in about 1 minute.


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## sleepersilverado (Jun 27, 2011)

Castle doctrine 
SECTION 2. Section 9.31
(a) Except as provided in Subsection (b), a person is justified in using force against another when and to the degree the actor [he] reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to protect the actor [himself] against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful force. The actor's belief that the force was immediately necessary as described by this subsection is presumed to be reasonable if the actor:

(1) knew or had reason to believe that the person against whom the force was used:

(A) unlawfully and with force entered, or was attempting to enter unlawfully and with force, the actor's occupied habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment;

(B) unlawfully and with force removed, or was attempting to remove unlawfully and with force, the actor from the actor's habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment; or

Sec. 9.32. DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON. (a) A person is justified in using deadly force against another:

(1) if the actor [he] would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.31; and

Read above. If he pulled on the door handle then read (A) again. Should or should she not have is not for use to decide. Situations happen fast and people react differently. If you choose to carry you need to understand the law thoroughly and practice muscle and mental memory. People need to read the news and understand there is not a safe place anymore and unfortunately we can not rely on others to take action and help now days. A lot of people don't see everyday items as deadly weapons, something as simple as a pencil can be used as a deadly weapon of someone's fist. When it is all said and done we have to interpret the law to our best ability and rely on that with hope that law enforcement interpret the law as we do.

I want everyone to forget the car, pretend it was a house. According to the law they are not different. Everyone here would be making different comments if the guy was banging on her front window and juggling the door knob on her front door. Somehow i have a feeling everyone here would agree with her actions.

We will have to see how the facts stack up.


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## chubri777 (Aug 11, 2005)

That road rage will bite you in the a-, errr, chest occasionally.


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## StinkBait (May 31, 2004)

Ruh-Roh...

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=8813201


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## Mick R. (Apr 21, 2011)

According to a bystander he didn't hear any yelling or pounding on the car... I guess we'll see what happens when they turn it over to a grand jury.



> The Harris County Sheriff's Office has already said there's enough gray area in the case that they're going to leave it up to a grand jury whether or not the woman is charged.


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## Archer (Jul 10, 2006)

Gotta love it, an "eye witness" who really didn't see a darn thing and by his own admission didn't turn around until the gunshot. I stand by my earlier post, try to force your way into my vehicle and the only way you're not getting shot is if you happen to be a female or a man who is small enough that I wouldn't consider it a threat. 

Sad to say but it's a crazy and dangerous world we live in today and I would much rather be judged by twelve than carried by six. My heart goes out to the young woman, not only is she traumatized by the shooting, now she will have to contend with all of the "eye witnesses" that the media will scrounge up in the coming days, all in the name of disarming the public for their own safety of course.


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## Texican89 (Oct 27, 2009)

My condolences go out to the family. My wife knew him and said he was a respectful guy, she still can't believe that was him. I did not know him but prayers sent regardless.


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## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

Mick R. said:


> According to a bystander he didn't hear any yelling or pounding on the car... I guess we'll see what happens when they turn it over to a grand jury.





> The Harris County Sheriff's Office has already said there's enough gray area in the case that they're going to leave it up to a grand jury whether or not the woman is charged.


And right there goes 20 grand in attorney fees.


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## just plain bill (Jul 8, 2009)

hmm...cops looked at video of the guy banging on her car and trying to open the door...kinda negates the eyewitness, doesn't it? that's why they let her go home. wake up, people, before you make dumb comments or speculations...


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## teamgafftop1 (Aug 30, 2010)

Mont said:


> And right there goes 20 grand in attorney fees.


It makes the prepaid CHL insurance look pretty attractive in that perspective.


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## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

teamgafftop1 said:


> It makes the prepaid CHL insurance look pretty attractive in that perspective.


just out of curiosity, how much does that cost and what does it cover?


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## Poon Chaser (Aug 22, 2006)

Mont said:


> just out of curiosity, how much does that cost and what does it cover?


I think I pay 100.00 (maybe not that much) a year for Texas law sheild and i covers all legal fee's associated with a CHL incident in texas. Both civil and criminal. Out of state, they will come get you out of jail and find you an attorny in that state (fee not covered). I am locked into that price. I signed up when i got my CHL. out of about 20 people in the class, I was the only one i saw take the deal.

I think its worth it. You never know... people are getting more desperate (or stupid) out there.

http://www.uslawshield.com/texas/


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## Bregier79 (Jun 6, 2012)

Mont said:


> just out of curiosity, how much does that cost and what does it cover?


It's about $130 a year. Not sure exactly what all it covers - look up Texas Law Shield for the exact details.


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## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

Bregier79 said:


> It's about $130 a year. Not sure exactly what all it covers - look up Texas Law Shield for the exact details.


Looks like it covers the basic lawyer fee to me. It doesn't include experts and and lot of other *expensive* things you generally need in a trial.

Any way you look at this situation, it's a mess. She works at Chase bank, and most likely will be out of a job before it's over. She's going to be out a lot of money, any way it goes. He's pushing up daisies. Driving off sure seems like it would have been easier. Oh well, prayers sent for all involved.


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## rm159 (Jul 3, 2012)

poppadawg said:


> Can you shoot someone for beating on your window? Couldnt you call the cops? Or drive off? Sounds like she is in a heap of trouble to me. The one thing she definitely has going for her is that she is a woman


Yeah she could just leave her life in hands of police officers and hope that the guy doesn't pull her out of the car and beat her to near death while waiting on the police. Or she could drive away and be chased and possibly be seriously injured in a crash while trying to run from this idiot.


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

Mont said:


> just out of curiosity, how much does that cost and what does it cover?


In another thread, it was stated that an umbrella liability policy will cover this sort of situation. I am investigating it now for cost and scope of coverage. As I understand it, $1MM worth of umbrella liability costs about $300+- per year, but I haven't been quoted that amount yet.


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## manwitaplan (Dec 9, 2005)

HydraSports said:


> In another thread, it was stated that an umbrella liability policy will cover this sort of situation. I am investigating it now for cost and scope of coverage. As I understand it, $1MM worth of umbrella liability costs about $300+- per year, but I haven't been quoted that amount yet.


That is the exact quote I just got last week. $300 for 1M in an umbrella through my Farmers Agent. I was unaware that it would cover you in CHL case.

Thanks,


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## iridered2003 (Dec 12, 2005)

just plain bill said:


> hmm...cops looked at video of the guy banging on her car and trying to open the door...kinda negates the eyewitness, doesn't it? that's why they let her go home. wake up, people, before you make dumb comments or speculations...


next it will be "thats not him in the video"???? beating on the car. this IDIOT got what he got and WE never have to worry about that again with him. i do feel for his family as they have to suffer the lose of a loved one.


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## Part Timer (Jul 2, 2012)

they told me if you lose the case you are liable for all cost. so don't get it thinking they have your back and you can draw on anyone. had this instance been man vs. man, I believe there would have ben charges filed. I pray I never have to use my chl.


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## RACER (Mar 15, 2006)

I am sure glad I am not in her shoes!


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## adpostel (Jan 14, 2006)

I find it interesting that the media is saying there was an "EYE WITNESS" When the man didn't see squat! What he saw was the end of an altercation that ended with the use of deadly force. In my opinion, as a CHL holder, I believe that the Texas Penal Code is clear on what is allowable. The Texas Penal Code, or the media, or anyone else that isn't in my shoes doesn't have the right to decide when I feel the need to protect my life, family or property. It is cut and dry, If I feel you are threatening my domain, which includes my family, home, car and property I CAN protect it by use of deadly force. 

Should I or would I is a whole other subject, what I can tell you is that I know what rights are afforded to me, and I know when I can use that right against you or any other individual. If you want to gamble on the fact of whether I would or wouldn't, just be preparred for the consequences. Unless something else out of the blue comes up on this case, the surveilance camera shows the man beating violently on the window and trying to open her car door, she gets no billed....... BTW, don't get road rage and beat on someones car window, it might be me inside......


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

RACER said:


> I am sure glad I am not in her shoes!


x1000. No amount of insurance or money can make you sleep at night. Even seasoned military operators take years of counseling to resolve these issues in their minds and they are trained to kill and trained on how to deal with killing. I would bet this 23 year old bank worker is not and now she will have to deal with it, right or wrong. I have to believe that in that moment, she feared for her life and should be protected under the law, but I am talking more about her mental battles ahead.


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## MEGABITE (May 21, 2004)

Man stabbed to death after a traffic collision yesterday.

http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Traffic-wreck-leads-to-fatal-stabbing-3873891.php


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## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

HydraSports said:


> In another thread, it was stated that an umbrella liability policy *will cover this sort of situation*. I am investigating it now for cost and scope of coverage. As I understand it, $1MM worth of umbrella liability costs about $300+- per year, but I haven't been quoted that amount yet.


I would be interested to know how. Umbrella policies are excess liability policies that pay after another form of insurance has reached its limit of coverage. For example, my auto policy maxes out at 300K, and the umbrella policy picks up the next 700K. My question is, what primary policy covers legal costs of a shooting that happens in your car? Sure, if I run over a $500K car and total it, I am covered. If I blow someone away sitting in it, I don't know...


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## WilliamH (May 21, 2004)

MEGABITE said:


> Man stabbed to death after a traffic collision yesterday.
> 
> http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Traffic-wreck-leads-to-fatal-stabbing-3873891.php


Happened on the 9th and it wasn't road rage.


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

Mont said:


> I would be interested to know how. Umbrella policies are excess liability policies that pay after another form of insurance has reached its limit of coverage. For example, my auto policy maxes out at 300K, and the umbrella policy picks up the next 700K. My question is, what primary policy covers legal costs of a shooting that happens in your car? Sure, if I run over a $500K car and total it, I am covered. If I blow someone away sitting in it, I don't know...


I am scheduling a meeting with my agent soon to discuss this very thing. I will let you know the results of that. I can only assume that it is an extension of liability coverage from your home owners insurance (which is the normal reason non-business owners buy umbrella liability to cover their hunting lease, fishing boat/camp, cattle getting out onto the road, swimming pools/lakes/ponds (attractive nuisances), etc against a liability claim) , but I am not certain. The over and above the normal home owners is for those who might have more at stake than those policy limits and/or who might be subject to larger claims, i.e. CHL holders.


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## MEGABITE (May 21, 2004)

WilliamH said:


> Happened on the 9th and it wasn't road rage.


The Commie-cal drastically changed the story from when I posted it. It's not even close to being the same. But I have learned to take whatever Dale Lezon writes with a dump truck load of salt.  He's worthless.


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## WilliamH (May 21, 2004)

MEGABITE said:


> The Commie-cal drastically changed the story from when I posted it. It's not even close to being the same.


they are known to do that! LOL . . .


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## cloudfishing (May 8, 2005)

All I have too say is what would you have instructed your loved one to do ?


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## iridered2003 (Dec 12, 2005)

cloudfishing said:


> All I have too say is what would you have instructed your loved one to do ?


right on.


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## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

cloudfishing said:


> All I have too say is what would you have instructed your loved one to do ?


For me, it has to be "truly in fear for my life, or that of a family member" or instructing a loved one "only shoot if you are truly in fear of your life, or that of a family member." Of course I hope it never happens, but if I am truly in fear for my life, then I won't be sorry for what I did. I would be sorry that it happened of course. But I would feel I did the right thing and would go on to tackle the legal ramifications.


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## sweenyite (Feb 22, 2009)

I'd like to see that surveillance video.


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## Duck (Feb 21, 2005)

Tragic event indeed. Media outlets are reporting slightly different accounts of the event. One thing that is a bit confusing to me is they said he beat on the window, then tried to open the door but as someone previously mentioned, the bullet hole is at the front end of the window. Seems in that case it would be towards the rear of the vehicle.


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## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

HydraSports said:


> I am scheduling a meeting with my agent soon to discuss this very thing. I will let you know the results of that. I can only assume that it is an extension of liability coverage from your home owners insurance (which is the normal reason non-business owners buy umbrella liability to cover their hunting lease, fishing boat/camp, cattle getting out onto the road, swimming pools/lakes/ponds (attractive nuisances), etc against a liability claim) , but I am not certain. The over and above the normal home owners is for those who might have more at stake than those policy limits and/or who might be subject to larger claims, i.e. CHL holders.


I took a look at my policy and here's where I see that what happened wouldn't be covered. The grand jury is deciding whether or not a criminal act was committed. It's not about anything to do with money, it's whether or not she will be charged with a crime. I don't see my HO insurance stepping in at that point. Now, at some point later down the road, if and when money did become involved, then they might have a reason to step in. The things you mentioned, like cattle getting out, aren't criminal in nature. That's an accident. It's no accident that lady squeezed off a fatal round at that guy. It was intentional. If the nature of an intentional act of an insured is determined to be criminal, I think that lets the HO insurance company off the hook. Maybe one of the barristers here could shed a little light on the subject since they have specific training in all this.


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## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

Duck said:


> Tragic event indeed. Media outlets are reporting slightly different accounts of the event. One thing that is a bit confusing to me is they said he beat on the window, then tried to open the door but as someone previously mentioned, the bullet hole is at the front end of the window. Seems in that case it would be towards the rear of the vehicle.


If the bullet hole was on the opposite side of the car I would get suspicious of course, but I don't think we know enough to judge on the hole being a few degrees different than you think it should be. How much was she squirming around in the car, backing away from the window? If the man was right handed, he may have been near her side mirror as he hit the window with his fist. It is a shame it happened of course, but I don't think the general public has enough facts to make a determination.


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## sweenyite (Feb 22, 2009)

I'm thinking she had options.


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## Part Timer (Jul 2, 2012)

sweenyite said:


> Im thinking she had options.


she might have...doesnt mean she had to run....that's the law. You shouldn't run around trying to intimidate women by pounding on there window....least not in texas


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## sweenyite (Feb 22, 2009)

Part Timer said:


> she might have...doesnt mean she had to run....that's the law. You shouldn't run around trying to intimidate women by pounding on there window....least not in texas


 If you could take a life or drive away, which would you do? I'd drive away. Not because I'd HAVE to, but because I would only kill if it were the only option. Had she been cornered, fine. Just sayin' she'd have a lot less headache and heartache right now if she'd have put it in gear and burned rubber.


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## Part Timer (Jul 2, 2012)

sweenyite said:


> If you could take a life or drive away, which would you do? I'd drive away. Not because I'd HAVE to, but because I would only kill if it were the only option. Had she been cornered, fine. Just sayin' she'd have a lot less headache and heartache right now if she'd have put it in gear and burned rubber.


I completely agree with you. 100% but im not a small girl with a strange man pulling on my door and pounding on my window. if it were me I would have drove off. if it were my wife with our daughter in car....that's a different story.


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## Duck (Feb 21, 2005)

Whitebassfisher said:


> If the bullet hole was on the opposite side of the car I would get suspicious of course, but I don't think we know enough to judge on the hole being a few degrees different than you think it should be. How much was she squirming around in the car, backing away from the window? If the man was right handed, he may have been near her side mirror as he hit the window with his fist. It is a shame it happened of course, but I don't think the general public has enough facts to make a determination.


Agree and not judging by any means, more like thinking out loud. Just picturing it in my head and comparing to the picture of the window, seemed odd. I'm sure all will unfold in due time. Prayers for all involved.


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## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

The "witness" on the news last night said that he was 15-20 feet away at the pump closest to them.

My office is 18 feet across. If there was a life and death situation in here, I would think I would notice it.

From that distance when you are standing outside of your car pumping gas, you are going to hear someone yelling and beating on a car.... so I dont really doubt his story, plus he is a neutral 3rd party.

As mentioned, a survellance tape from the gas station would be the evidence necessary. Should be interesting to watch the details unfold.

On one hand, if you shot everybody that freaked you out, you would be wading through a pile of corpses.... but on the other hand, it only takes one to take you out, there are no second chances. Indeed a tough situation.

Pray that I am never in those shoes, thats for sure.


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## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

sweenyite said:


> If you could take a life or drive away, which would you do? I'd drive away. Not because I'd HAVE to, but because I would only kill if it were the only option. Had she been cornered, fine. Just sayin' she'd have a lot less headache and heartache right now if she'd have put it in gear and burned rubber.


yeah, and then she'd be the victim, hit and run dude claims his story she is guilty, and the ***** wins in the end... an armed society is a polite society as it says


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## 1fastmerc (Aug 12, 2012)

InfamousJ said:


> she deserves no jail time, hot heads trying to attack women deserve dirt naps.
> 
> I hope she gets off and I hope she can forgive herself and move on with her life. Some other dumbass in this world just ruined her life. Now how sad is that?


X2

Sent from my stupid iPhone using Tapatalk


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## poppadawg (Aug 10, 2007)

Saw her on the news, she isn't small. I would MUCH rather my wife/family burn rubber the hell outta there, or simply start blaring the horn. You wouldnt want someone you love carrying around that stuff. No way. All that said I hope they slap her on the wrist and let her be. She is gonna have a lot of sleepless nights. I dont think she made a good decision, but don't think you should lock her up for it either


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

Mont said:


> I took a look at my policy and here's where I see that what happened wouldn't be covered. The grand jury is deciding whether or not a criminal act was committed. It's not about anything to do with money, it's whether or not she will be charged with a crime. I don't see my HO insurance stepping in at that point. Now, at some point later down the road, if and when money did become involved, then they might have a reason to step in. The things you mentioned, like cattle getting out, aren't criminal in nature. That's an accident. It's no accident that lady squeezed off a fatal round at that guy. It was intentional. If the nature of an intentional act of an insured is determined to be criminal, I think that lets the HO insurance company off the hook. Maybe one of the barristers here could shed a little light on the subject since they have specific training in all this.


Agree, I wouldn't expect that it would pay for defense of criminal charges. I see the cattle and the shooting as one in the same in a civil case, both of which would be about money, not criminal. That is probably the extent of the coverage/funding. Only civil/money related defense.


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## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

HydraSports said:


> Agree, I wouldn't expect that it would pay for defense of criminal charges. I see the cattle and the shooting as one in the same in a civil case, both of which would be about money, not criminal. That is probably the extent of the coverage/funding. Only civil/money related defense.


Let me know how the conversation goes with your agent. While I was looking at some of the links others suggested, this one sure pops out at you.

http://www.uslawshield.com/texas/after-bang-plan/


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## kurt68 (May 21, 2004)

It's happened before here in Houston, a male researcher here at UT Medical School was rear ended on Post Oak and got out and kicked in the window of the car that hit him, lets just say he didn't do that again and the shooter got no-billed.


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## -HIC- (May 12, 2006)

Bottom line, if he did not open the door or break the window she should be charged. 

Given the size of this forum and the number of folks on here that post about shooting first and asking questions later, it is only a matter of time before some of these posts are read to a jury.


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## dbarham (Aug 13, 2005)

She is gonna be in some deep sheeeet!


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## Bluewaterbound (Aug 3, 2006)

I DVR'd last nights KHOU TV news at 10 pm before I went to bed last night. Just now had a chance to play it back. It appears the media tends to disclose allot more information after dark. Go figure. 

The "Man" that was shot and killed was a 22 year old hispanic male. In the videos and pictures on the news he looked like he was maybe 130-150 pounds "soaking wet" as they say and under 5 foot 8 inches in height.

His girlfriend was on the news pleading for justice for her murdered boyfriend.

Looks like two young individuals in a minor fender bender in the wrong place at the wrong time. One dead on the outside and one probably dead on the inside after what happened.

Things aren't always as they appear under first light. 

Damm shame it went down the way it did.


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

Mont said:


> Let me know how the conversation goes with your agent. While I was looking at some of the links others suggested, this one sure pops out at you.
> 
> http://www.uslawshield.com/texas/after-bang-plan/


Will do. Sounds like their main advise is to keep your mouth shut stupid!!!!!!!! Good advise.


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## Redfish30 (Dec 5, 2006)

-HIC- said:


> Bottom line, if he did not open the door or break the window she should be charged.
> 
> Given the size of this forum and the number of folks on here that post about shooting first and asking questions later, it is only a matter of time before some of these posts are read to a jury.


Agree with this. Based on the information that we know, she should be charged with murder. Just because you have a CHL, doesn't make you innocent when you decide to murder someone over a non life threatening altercation.


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## fishinguy (Aug 5, 2004)

-HIC- said:


> Bottom line, if he did not open the door or break the window she should be charged.
> 
> Given the size of this forum and the number of folks on here that post about shooting first and asking questions later, it is only a matter of time before some of these posts are read to a jury.


So if someone is in the process of breaking into your house with intent to assault you, you have to wait for them to get in before you shoot?

If he was terrorizing her and beating on her car then she did the right thing.

http://www.valleycentral.com/news/story.aspx?id=786937#.UFshnrJlRp0

http://host.madison.com/news/local/...cle_0cbc065c-b00a-11e1-a8c8-001a4bcf887a.html

http://www.wgal.com/Police-Man-Punc...dent/-/9361174/10230494/-/9g2hdq/-/index.html

http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2011/07/29/bellevue-man-charged-after-road-rage-incident/

that is only a handful of the thousands of times these douche bags are assaulting women on the roads. I'd rather my wife shoot someone then have them assault her.

I'm not saying she is justified if the man was not threatening her and I have no evidence the he did or did not threaten her. However if he was banging on her car and terrorizing her then I have no problem with her actions.


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## Finfisher (Jul 20, 2008)

I drove right past that Monday morning. They had the whole station taped off. Cops everywhere. Was wondering what happened.
Sad situation for sure.


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