# where are the 20 million snow geese?????



## 3rdcst (Jun 16, 2009)

Time for my annual where are the snow geese question . Just returned from Arkansas and I am still looking for these Mega-herd of geese. This will be my 5th year of going there in search of the goose Nirvana . I ask the people in Arkansas and they tell me they are in Texas and South Louisiana. People in Texas say they are in Arkansas and Missouri. These are big white birds ,not easy to hide,so who ever is hiding these twenty million birds either come clean and release them or pass the crack pipe that the feds are smoking so I can see them also.


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## sotexhookset (Jun 4, 2011)

Lol


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## daddyeaux (Nov 18, 2007)

You're in the wrong LOCATION..........RULE #1


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## 3rdcst (Jun 16, 2009)

The Conservation Order that was only going to last 5 years is in its 17 th year.It is here to stay it has taken a life of its own. The economic boom it has brought to Arkansas Missouri and Nebraska overwhelms the reality that there is no biological reason for it. 
Remember the Gi Go theory Garbage In Garbage out.


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## 4thbreak (May 20, 2005)

yawn


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## Swampstomper (Apr 19, 2010)

A seemingly reliable report had last years winter mid-continent light goose count at 4.8 million. That is a realistic estimate. Those 20+ million estimates came form state guys in North Dakota. 4-5 million is still way off the target of 1.5-2.5 million they said the tundra can support. What you don,t see is a new study on damage to the tundra caused by snows. It,s time for an update.

As far the Conservation Order goes, it should be renamed the Population Maintenance Order. That,s about all it,s doing.


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## LA Wader (Oct 22, 2013)

You definitely don't see the birds along the I-10 (between LakeCharles and Lafayette) corridor that were common to see back years ago. Lots of empty fields north and south during the season.


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## TatterTot (Jan 6, 2006)

They are in Mo, Ark, Kansas, NODAK in the months of Feb-April. They mysteriously show up those 3 months then disappear again. But hey "we have to save the tundra" by God. Forget illegal aliens or ISIS we HAVE to kill all the white geese in the world. 
Enough already. It's so 1999.


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## 3rdcst (Jun 16, 2009)

I could live with 4.5 million birds.Probably closer to 4 million.


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## mchildress (Jul 11, 2009)

You don't see them anymore between katy and brookshire off 10. Use to get a kick out of seeing hunters and their spreads in one pasture waiting on them and tons of geese on the ground in the next pasture. Use to be nothing to see several big groups on the ground out there.


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## oOslikOo (Jul 13, 2010)

mchildress said:


> You don't see them anymore between katy and brookshire off 10. Use to get a kick out of seeing hunters and their spreads in one pasture waiting on them and tons of geese on the ground in the next pasture. Use to be nothing to see several big groups on the ground out there.


Nowhere near the old numbers but they're there.


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## 4thbreak (May 20, 2005)

Swampstomper said:


> you don,t see is a new study on damage to the tundra caused by snows. It,s time for an update.


The latest update I've read, which was conducted in 2012 by what you could consider the leading authorities on snow geese in North America basically have said that the problem still continues (and might increase) and that the next step is direct control of some sort. These are the points they hit on:

1)We found evidence of declining survival of adult lesser snow geese from the southern-most nesting colonies, but survival of arctic-nesting snow geese, constituting 90% of the midcontinent population, remained high and overall survival rates remained above the level required to induce a population decline.

2) Increased harvest has not resulted in reduced survival of Rossâ€™s geese, whose numbers have continued to increase at a higher rate than have lesser snow geese since the start of conservation actions in 1999.

3) There was no indication that increased disturbance caused by conservation harvest reduced productivity of midcontinent lesser snow geese, and continued expansion and productivity of agro-ecosystems and the nutritional subsidy that they provide may further increase survival rates and productivity of these geese.

4) Indices of abundance and estimates of population size also suggest that growth of midcontinent lesser snow goose and Rossâ€™s goose populations has continued, though perhaps at a reduced rate. Use of banding and harvest data to estimate population size suggested that population size of midcontinent light geese may be much higher than previously thought, and this likely explains why increased harvest has not led to expected declines in population size.

5) Evidence suggests that damage to staging and nesting habitats in coastal areas along James and Hudson Bay has continued, and that the area affected by foraging activities of the geese continues to expand.

http://www.agjv.ca/images/stories/pdf/AGJV_SNOW_GOOSE_RPT_2012_FINAL.pdf


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## uncle dave (Jul 27, 2008)

global warming


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## G K Chambers (Aug 12, 2005)

3rdcst said:


> I could live with 4.5 million birds.Probably closer to 4 million.


You're happy and didn't know it.

USF&W Waterfowl Population Status 2014:

_Mid-continent Population Light Geese (MCP)_
This population includes lesser snow geese
and increasing numbers of Rossâ€™s geese. Geese
of the MCP nest on Baffin and Southampton
islands, with smaller numbers nesting along​

the west coast of Hudson Bay (
​​Figure 17).​
These geese winter primarily in eastern Texas,
Louisiana, and Arkansas. During the 2014
Midwinter Survey, biologists counted 3,814,700
light geese, a 17% decrease relative to the 2013​​​
index of 4,614,000

http://www.fws.gov/migratorybirds/N...pulationStatus/Waterfowl/StatusReport2014.pdf​


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## Goose Lover (Jan 23, 2012)

Officials that I have spoken with at the migratory bird office believe the numbers for the mid continent population is 10-20 million light geese.

They base that upon band information and images of the breeding grounds.

The numbers for this winter should be out in a week or two.

Hard to know what to believe. I know a biologist that did the aerial surveys of Specklebellies in Canada in the fall. We have talked many times about the estimates for light geese.

He told me that when they counted over a million Specklebellies there were easily 10 times as many light geese. So he does believe the numbers could be in the 10-20 million range.

And I know that when I drove to Stuttgart, Arkansas from Little Rock one year during Thanksgiving I was blown away by the numbers of light geese. It was unreal. I have seen a lot of geese in my life but I don't know if I have ever seen goose numbers like that on the Texas coast. 80 acres solid of geese seemed ho hum after awhile. That gives you an idea of just many there were. 

Everyone knows we don't have anything close to what we wintered before the year 2000. Maybe the uptick this year will be the start of better times.


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## Garwood57 (Jul 1, 2007)

Low goose levels are here to stay in Texas; accept and adjust your mentality, hunt more ducks, go north, keep your hunting passion and enjoy it with family and friends


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## Goose Lover (Jan 23, 2012)

I have accepted and but have not adjusted.

The future can be a tricky thing. In a few years we might see more geese than ever.


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## RedXCross (Aug 7, 2005)

Very True



LA Wader said:


> You definitely don't see the birds along the I-10 (between LakeCharles and Lafayette) corridor that were common to see back years ago. Lots of empty fields north and south during the season.


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## 3rdcst (Jun 16, 2009)

!0 to 20 million ///!!! What a crock. I have driven that same area that Gooselover has many times. From Stuttgart to Memphis to Jonesboro.. Yes there are lots of geese,lots of geese. Last year there was a report of a million birds in one field so I drove over and looked.Maybe twenty thousand birds.I can except that the goose numbers are above the long term goal. I can except that the Conservation Order is here to stay. What is hard to except is the extraordinary exaggerations of the population.


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## 4thbreak (May 20, 2005)

What does it matter? There's a lot of geese in the U.S. now, a lot more than there used to be. I think we can all agree on that. I have never seen the 10-20 million number in a scientific report. It's just a made up number or best guess number thrown out by Rockwell, Alisauskas, and others. Even they have said they really don't know. I wouldn't dwell on 10-20 million, it's just a guess.


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## 3rdcst (Jun 16, 2009)

Its just a guess. It has created a mindset that no matter how many we kill,by whatever means what does it matter that are just flying rats.


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## 4thbreak (May 20, 2005)

I don't disagree, it has brought a bad element into the sport. CO participation has fallen off though, so one can hope that the novelty has as well.


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## oOslikOo (Jul 13, 2010)

Just a bunch of people running around rakin geese callin themselves goose hunters :headknock


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## 3rdcst (Jun 16, 2009)

Exactly,even the big outfitters that hunt with the E caller wouldn't be jack without a caller.


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## Whitecrow (May 26, 2004)

oOslikOo said:


> Just a bunch of people running around rakin geese callin themselves goose hunters :headknock


This is what grinds my gears....and justifying what they are doing by proclaiming that they are saving the tundra from the "sky carp". I'd like to see an end to the conservation season completely and some reasonable limits established. Not sure what the answer is to trimming a population that they can't pinpoint, tho.


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## Chuckwagon (Aug 30, 2006)

There was an DU article recently that talked about direct control measures. If we go down that path, it could be the end of snow goose hunting as we know it. Ethical hunting is the only way.

Raking snow geese wounds and injures too many birds and animals, not just snows. It needs to be made illegal. 

Even though some don't like e-callers, if you want to really get the bird numbers down, they are going to have to expand the opportunity. They need to allow it some during the regular season, even if it means you shoot a few extra ducks or specklebellies.

Man created the problem and now we are trying to fix it. All we seem to do is screw something else up.


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## Goose Lover (Jan 23, 2012)

If the goal is to "shoot" the population down to a lower level then more unusual and previously outlawed methods could be legalized.

This would include allowing baiting and live decoys. 

It isn't what most people consider "fair chase" but if the goal of reducing the population is all important then it needs to be considered.

Very hard to predict how much that would increase the overall harvest but would add to it.


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## 4thbreak (May 20, 2005)

Baiting and live decoys have already been ruled out by the feds. If the population is to be reduced, it won't be by public hunters alone. There's just not enough people hunting geese to make a difference right now. The next step, as I understand it, is direct control on the wintering grounds which would include professionals going after the geese on public land and refuges. I think they would rather start the control measures on the wintering grounds first, and save the breeding grounds as a last resort. Although there a several options for that as well. This is all outlined in the environmental impact statement that I think was last revised in 2007.


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## Goose Lover (Jan 23, 2012)

I would feel a lot better about baiting and live decoys than direct measures. And I am not sure what that includes but perhaps destroying eggs, killing molting birds and poisoning.

Why would that be ruled out in favor of "direct measures"?

In my opinion increasing the means and methods for hunters to take light geese is prefarable than the other approach.


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## TatterTot (Jan 6, 2006)

You guys are spot on. Green to you. This whole sky carp, save the tundra, ground raking BS pi$$es me off to no end. These birds are to be respected. CO is all about $$$.


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## TatterTot (Jan 6, 2006)

Btw specks, and pintails NEVER hang out with snows and Ross while they eat. Freaking ground rakers. Hey but they're.......everybody........."SAVING THE TUNDRA".


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## 3rdcst (Jun 16, 2009)

The overpopulation thing is all hype


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## Goose Lover (Jan 23, 2012)

20 million would be higher than I would estimate but 10-15 million does seem very plausible.


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## 3rdcst (Jun 16, 2009)

Where are they ?The Feds count these birds in Canada and when get to the lower 48 No one can find Them. It is hocus pocus.


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## Goose Lover (Jan 23, 2012)

It is a big world out there. 


Many states and millions upon millions of acres of lands is where they winter.

The birds exist in huge numbers but getting a specific count probably can't be done..


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## quackiller (Jan 27, 2012)

Old school. Would be nice to have an update


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## Goose Lover (Jan 23, 2012)

Regardless of the population levels the agencies believe the habitat degradation is so severe the light numbers must be reduced. 

Looking at the footage and photos of their southern nesting grounds nobody can deny the severity of the impacts. 

Unfortunately the state (Texas) that hunts them the hardest and shoots the most has suffered as the geese have shifted their main wintering grounds.

Seems to me that as the birds shift father north to find better nesting habitat that will help to stem or stop the increase. The father north you go the more marginal the habitat is and the weather is less dependable. And the increased distance adds to the migration stress.

The mid winter numbers should be out next week. That's what I was told.


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## 3rdcst (Jun 16, 2009)

i have traveled most of these vast amount of acres and I can tell you that there aint no15 million snow geese.


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## LA Wader (Oct 22, 2013)

I don't have any idea what we really have, you hear the bird counts and have to trust the experts. I know we definitely don't see what we used to have wintering down here. I think that there is so much gun pressure on the gulf coast that the birds have adapted to staying further north. We have had the weather and the birds still don't come. 

My uncle-in-law had a lease in north central Mississippi and he said nobody messed with geese up there. He said there were lots of geese up there. Same thing with some people I know from Arkansas, they don't mess with geese on their farms. Of course that's just only a couple people. I'm sure there are some goose hunters, but nothing like the what coastal TX and southwest LA has. 

I know in my neck of the woods that dang near any field that is farmed has a blind in it and a gun going off! So many good areas are now being crawfished harder than ever. The crawfish farmers run them off too by jumping the bodies or with carbide cannons. The birds don't have a chance! Up north there is way more farmland that they can body up on without getting tampered with.


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## dbarham (Aug 13, 2005)

Not enough rice fields around Brazoria county anymore very sad not to see geese where I have seen them all my life


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## barbless (Jul 27, 2004)

hunted snows out of Pine Bluff, Arkansas last Friday and Saturday. There are LOTS of geese there. Just guessing but I bet we saw at least 20K Friday.


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## TatterTot (Jan 6, 2006)

barbless said:


> hunted snows out of Pine Bluff, Arkansas last Friday and Saturday. There are LOTS of geese there. Just guessing but I bet we saw at least 20K Friday.


Thank you for doing your part in saving the Tundra.


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## Goose Lover (Jan 23, 2012)

The mid winter surveys were made available today.

The mid continent population of light geese was approximately 3.3 million, which is down from about 3.8 million last winter and from 4.6 million the year before that. This is the combined number of the Mississippi, Central and Western Central Flyway states. 


The USF&W estimates the total mid continent population of light geese to be 22 million. 

The surveys don't count every acre of every state the birds winter in. They count a path or area which is the same year after year to establish a trend. That's why there is a large gap between the combined survey number and the total population estimate.


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## 3rdcst (Jun 16, 2009)

3.3 to 22 million pretty good stretch.hocus pocus


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## TatterTot (Jan 6, 2006)

3rdcst said:


> 3.3 to 22 million pretty good stretch.hocus pocus


Lol

It's all about the Benjamin's.


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## MLK (Oct 5, 2009)

not sure about the snows, I just recently moved to Iowa due to work transfer and we are covered up with Canadians.


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## oOslikOo (Jul 13, 2010)

MLK said:


> not sure about the snows, I just recently moved to Iowa due to work transfer and we are covered up with Canadians.


Are they emigrants or vacationing eh?


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## waterwolf (Mar 6, 2005)

I saw about 300 last Wednesday on fm1942 west of N Main...near Crosby,Tx...they are late


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## oOslikOo (Jul 13, 2010)

There are some close to the coast and on wheat in the northern reaches of the prairie.


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## Goose Lover (Jan 23, 2012)

Saw approximately 100 light geese on FM 1162 this morning.


Has anyone ever seen white geese stay all summer?


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## Category6 (Nov 21, 2007)

I say we put the limit on federal wardens and federal biologists to unlimited and put the snow goose limit back to 5. Problem solved.


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## Category6 (Nov 21, 2007)

With everything you know about the federal government 3rdcst, does it really surprise you that they can't count? Or is it that we sheeple can't think. Let's be clear, this is a money grab and a power play just like all politics (just like gulf red snapper). The feds have their dirty little hands in it and they don't like that a few southern states get more benefit than the yankee states, and the sky carp are utilizing tundra that canada geese could be using so let's let the southern hillbilly idiots exterminate their own resource and laugh at them while they do it. Snow goose hunting is over as we knew it. All of y'all that believe this tundra decimation / 10-20 MM snow geese BS need to head to my house right now, I've got some very valuable things I could maybe part with that I'm certain you will want to purchase.


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## hookedrknot (May 23, 2013)

*hit the nail on the head*



dbarham said:


> Not enough rice fields around Brazoria county anymore very sad not to see geese where I have seen them all my life


thats what i say is the reason we dont have geese here anymore there isnt near the farming going on here in texs like there use to be . when i was young you could drive for miles and miles through rice country and on i10 there was some type of crop rice ,corn ,maze sugarcane .now you can drive from here to new Orleans and sure there are a few but not near what it use to be.why is it ? the feds paying them not to do it . oh well its ok i dont mind driving 6 hrs to still kill them lmao and the boys up there give you a great hunt for only 150.00 to 200.00 a day and hunt u all day not till 9 or 10 am sun up to sundown .its still hunting up there not big business like here :texasflag


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## Goose Lover (Jan 23, 2012)

I have spoken with a couple of friends that have been to the tundra. They don't work for the federal government and were not on a "dog and pony show" put on by the wildlife agencies.


One of them flew over a large expanse of the coastal areas around the Hudson Bay and said the damage was widespread and very substantial. 

The other described what he saw as "biblical" in proportion.

They had no agenda. 

The coastal lowlands around the Hudson Bay have represented the heart of snow goose nesting territory. The geese have thinned out considerably in that area and moved to new areas farther north, northwest and northeast. Pretty much at the top of the world. 
The added distance, which is substantial, has to put more stress on the birds.

Add to that the weather and habitat conditions are probably less predictable that far north. 

Whether there are 2 million or 22 million light geese I don't see the conservation season going away until the numbers drop and/or they see evidence of the habitat starting to improve.


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## Category6 (Nov 21, 2007)

What if we just sent mercenaries with street sweepers into the tundra during nesting season and killed every white goose? Would that save the tundra? I say lets kill them all and let God sort them out. Who cares about geese anyway, it's the tundra and global warming that really matters.


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## Goose Lover (Jan 23, 2012)

There has been no reduction in the number of light geese since the conservation season started. If it isn't reducing the numbers then why would the agencies change it?

People in the north states are able to enjoy a spring season. and if the population is doing fine they why not let hunters up north have the opportunity?

The numbers in Texas have dropped but not the overall population.


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## 4thbreak (May 20, 2005)

Goose Lover said:


> Has anyone ever seen white geese stay all summer?


Just the occasional farm pond snow which might have been wounded. At some point they would have to molt, so if they were staying year round, they would need a good water source to avoid predators.


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## oOslikOo (Jul 13, 2010)

hookedrknot said:


> thats what i say is the reason we dont have geese here anymore there isnt near the farming going on here in texs like there use to be . when i was young you could drive for miles and miles through rice country and on i10 there was some type of crop rice ,corn ,maze sugarcane .now you can drive from here to new Orleans and sure there are a few but not near what it use to be.why is it ? the feds paying them not to do it . oh well its ok i dont mind driving 6 hrs to still kill them lmao and the boys up there give you a great hunt for only 150.00 to 200.00 a day and hunt u all day not till 9 or 10 am sun up to sundown .its still hunting up there not big business like here :texasflag


No doubt Rice is the most important crop, but you're foolish if you think geese cant make it on what is here. There's still alot of other crops being grown.


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## Whitecrow (May 26, 2004)

Geese came to the Gulf coast long before the first rice field was ever leveed up. They came here because they couldn't get what they needed farther north. The population was controlled by the stress of the non-stop migration.....the Grand Passage. I can remember as a youngster when the geese would get here......it was amazing. Now they kinda just trickle in. Hunting will never control the population.....which is pretty clear due to the lack of success the conservation season has had. The population increase was due to better conditions to the north, which enabled the geese to migrate here in much better condition. Then they began to stay north and imprint and here we are. The population hasn't changed all that much, it's just spread over a much greater area.


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## oOslikOo (Jul 13, 2010)

FWIW I just ran some estimated acreages planted for our core goose counties. now keep in mind they dont have rice estimated for several counties including Wharton the largest producer. Also Wharton county had the only estimated wheat, so there is a substantial portion of acreage missing. Number is includes Rice (when given), corn, soybeans, milo, and estimated wheat for Wharton county.


West side-373,102 No rice for 5 counties. I'm guessing about 50,000 acres of Rice missing. 

East side- 57,800 Guessing about 7,000 acres of rice missing.


With missing Rice, it's easily 500,000 acres of crop land. Not to mention winter wheat and acreage on rice rotation utilized by geese.


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## bigfishtx (Jul 17, 2007)

Monday they were coming over Goliad county by the hundreds, flight after flight headed north.


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## txdukklr (Jun 30, 2013)

reason we don't see birds is the agriculture areas that we used to see em on . . . example katy brookshire have been fallow for years. 

That many snow geese need to eat and dirt doesn't sustain them long. The geese are out there. . . . .


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## oOslikOo (Jul 13, 2010)

Not where you get your sources Waller county still grows some 6,000 acres of Rice, and still supports geese. Not as many as 15-18 years ago but still had a 48 bird hunt this year. A field that's gonna be rice the following year is some of the best habitat and hunting come January. My last 10 hunts of the year were in such fields and probably averaged 15 birds a hunt.


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## waterspout (May 21, 2004)

dbarham said:


> not enough rice fields around brazoria county anymore very sad not to see geese where i have seen them all my life


bingo........ garwood, eagle lake, nada, KATY etc


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## Goose Lover (Jan 23, 2012)

There doesn't need to be a great deal of rice farming to attract large numbers of geese.

The problem is that when the rice goes away whatever replaces it isn't as attractive to the birds.

Kansas has no rice farming and Missouri has about as much as Texas. Yet there are tons of white geese. 

But what they have is endless amounts of no till corn. And it is harvested in the early fall so it is sitting there just waiting for the birds to arrive.

If the Texas coast could develop a no till or conservation tillage system I believe it would make a huge difference in the habitat quality around here. I feel it would be a game changer.

The way it is now the farmers plow and plow and plow. Black rows of dirt are not attractive to geese.


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## Chuckwagon (Aug 30, 2006)

Goose Lover said:


> There doesn't need to be a great deal of rice farming to attract large numbers of geese.
> 
> The problem is that when the rice goes away whatever replaces it isn't as attractive to the birds.
> 
> ...


/thread
It can't be summed up any better than this.


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## oOslikOo (Jul 13, 2010)

January 2013 they counted 660,768 Snow geese in Kansas, and another 53,000 in Oklahoma.


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## 4thbreak (May 20, 2005)

There was a stretch this season, probably mid to late December through the early part of January, that it seemed like the snows did not want anything to do with spreads at all. They would flare from the next field over for no reason type of stuff. Even in fields they were feeding undisturbed in the day before. I saw very few good decoy snow hunts in that period and it looked like a lot just resorted to pass shooting. But the November hunts and then mid-late January through ecaller was really good hunting. The point being, it would be nice to have a ton of birds, but I don't think for a second it would result in exaggerated bag increases for everyone during regular season day in and day out. You're still hunting snow geese and a lot of people would screw that up even if a good hunt fell in their lap.


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## hookedrknot (May 23, 2013)

*x2*



Goose Lover said:


> There doesn't need to be a great deal of rice farming to attract large numbers of geese.
> 
> The problem is that when the rice goes away whatever replaces it isn't as attractive to the birds.
> 
> ...


x2 that is what i was really trying to say earlier i agree totally .thats the point we just dont have what we need to hold and attract them .its like if 20 million geese were to be going out to eat once they see that theres only 6000 acres (which buy the way isnt that much land in the big picture ) per someone quote and you remember flying over all the miles and miles of corn fields with all that easy pickins why would you fly any further now that would be foolish .what Texas needs to do is make our state more attractive to those 20 million buggers so they will fly on down here again .ok so i might have missed the mark a bit again but goose lover will save me lmao:texasflag


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## Drundel (Feb 6, 2006)

Goose Lover said:


> If the Texas coast could develop a no till or conservation tillage system I believe it would make a huge difference in the habitat quality around here. I feel it would be a game changer.
> 
> The way it is now the farmers plow and plow and plow. Black rows of dirt are not attractive to geese.


I asked my cousin (who is a farmer around El Campo) about that, he said most of his soil won't work for no till farming. I don't know if its just his area, or this part of Texas.

I hunted in OK in early January over a field that had 3 crops in it and was not tilled yet. Awesome to shoot big canada, mallards, and snows all out of the same field.


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## 3rdcst (Jun 16, 2009)

It won't work because they won't try it.


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## Goose Lover (Jan 23, 2012)

I don't know if no till would work or not.

We need some serious research on this. The upside in habitat is so large that is deserves a considerable amount of work.

I have heard the same thing from farmers. "It just won't work around here" But when you ask if they have ever tried it all say no.

I do know one young farmer and he says it will work. The seed drill technology has been good enough for many years.

When the farmers tell me it won't work because the soils get too and/or other reasons I think of when the corn gets harvested in this area. If it starts raining right after they harvest they can't plow their fields and much of the waste corn germinates. If it keeps raining and keeps them out the field the corn will grow 8 feet tall and look like it was planted. It will make a significant amount of volunteer corn. So if it will germinate like that after being thrown out of the combine why wouldn't it grow by farming it no till?


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## oOslikOo (Jul 13, 2010)

hookedrknot said:


> x2 that is what i was really trying to say earlier i agree totally .thats the point we just dont have what we need to hold and attract them .its like if 20 million geese were to be going out to eat once they see that theres only 6000 acres (which buy the way isnt that much land in the big picture ) per someone quote and you remember flying over all the miles and miles of corn fields with all that easy pickins why would you fly any further now that would be foolish .what Texas needs to do is make our state more attractive to those 20 million buggers so they will fly on down here again .ok so i might have missed the mark a bit again but goose lover will save me lmao:texasflag


Lol you literally have no clue.


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## 3rdcst (Jun 16, 2009)

back to the question. Where are the twenty million geese.


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## Goose Lover (Jan 23, 2012)

At the moment they are stretched over a large part of the Central and Mississippi Flyway.

As of a couple of days ago I saw 100 on FM 1162. There are geese at Squaw Creek NWR in Missouri, Sand Lake NWR in South Dakota, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Illinois, North Dakota, Kansas, Iowa and now into Central Canada.


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## Category6 (Nov 21, 2007)

oOslikOo said:


> Lol you literally have no clue.


he has a clue, and he's not far off the mark. I think we're all kind of saying the same thing in different ways. Just resign yourself to the fact that it will never be the same here again, even if everything crop wise reverted back to how it was it will never be the same because the imprinting of the birds has changed, but the farming here will never be what it once was. With Texas growing so fast population wise we will never get the rice water we used to have again due to city water demands. Snows will eat corn for sure, but over the last 50 years they have been taught that rice is the real deal. So as long as there is more rice north of Texas we are going to get short stopped, period.


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## Goose Lover (Jan 23, 2012)

Geese much prefer corn over rice.

It isn't even close.

Very few things out compete corn. Maybe peas and lentils in Canada and that's about it.


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## Category6 (Nov 21, 2007)

I'm not sure about that, maybe you're right, but corn harvesting has gotten so efficient that I'm not sure there is anything left for the birds. In fact almost all harvesting has gotten so efficient that the birds get nothing.


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## Goose Lover (Jan 23, 2012)

I was in Missouri during the winter.

I had the chance to walk out in no till corn fields. 

Ears, broken ears and individual kernels of corn were strewn all over the place.

Easy to find. It is no different here except that corn is planted and harvest much earlier on the Texas coast. After the harvest is completed the farmers disk it into oblivion and/or it rains and the corn sprouts. If you walk in any corn field that has just been harvested on the Texas coast it looks like someone was throwing corn all over the field.

In Missouri and farther north the corn is harvested in the fall or late fall. It is generally too cold for it to sprout and much of the land is no till. There is corn everywhere for the birds.


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## hookedrknot (May 23, 2013)

*corn*



Goose Lover said:


> I was in Missouri during the winter.
> 
> I had the chance to walk out in no till corn fields.
> 
> ...


again goose u hit it on the head i to hunt Missouri and i have seen the corn like that also . but like i said i dont mind driving to get a good and more than fair hunt .

:texasflag


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## 3rdcst (Jun 16, 2009)

No doubt geese prefer corn over rice. Lots less work to find and more bang for there buck in a kernel of corn than a grain of rice.


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## Chuckwagon (Aug 30, 2006)

There is some no till and fall crops along the Texas coast. I've seen more geese in that area the last two years than the previous ten years combined. It can work and I've seen it work.

Too many farmers are just hard headed and have to do things the same way they have for the past 30 years.


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## 4thbreak (May 20, 2005)

What is the difference in yield rates between till and no till?


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## oOslikOo (Jul 13, 2010)

Category5 said:


> he has a clue, and he's not far off the mark. I think we're all kind of saying the same thing in different ways. Just resign yourself to the fact that it will never be the same here again, even if everything crop wise reverted back to how it was it will never be the same because the imprinting of the birds has changed, but the farming here will never be what it once was. With Texas growing so fast population wise we will never get the rice water we used to have again due to city water demands. Snows will eat corn for sure, but over the last 50 years they have been taught that rice is the real deal. So as long as there is more rice north of Texas we are going to get short stopped, period.


I agree rice will never come back as it once was nor the geese. But there is plenty of land to hold 500,000 birds like we did this year. Like I posted earlier there was almost 700,000 geese in Kansas mid winter and they don't grow an ounce of rice. Bottom line is there aren't 20 million geese and what there is winters over a much wider area. We just need to hang on to our 300,00-500,000.


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## Duckchasr (Apr 27, 2011)

*IDK*

I don't know where the 20 million geese are. But I think rice fields ability to hold water better than other ag fields is a big draw to geese. If there is no water for the geese to roost on you won't have many geese in the area. Case in point back in the 80's-90's there where 3 main roost areas in the Damon /Needville area they all relied on rain. One was a rice field close to Barek rd. now a sod farm. Another was off CR18 a flooded native prairie now ditched and drained. The 3rd was the old sulfur mine pits close to FM1994 now a new dump has been built. Nowdays driving around that area you can see lot's of corn and milo still on the ground and not a goose to be seen except a straggler here and there.sad_smiles


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## goosekillr (Jul 11, 2007)

Don't buy the 20 million number but the co is here to stay. To much money involved. Just glad I got to see the good ole days and sad to see em gone. There's plentiful food and open water to the north and that's where the big numbers will stop.


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## Cap10 (Mar 3, 2005)

Farming Practices: Way different in Missouri than Texas. They do a Corn, Beans, and Rice rotation. No Till is much more prevalent. They have actually developed, are planting, and irrigating their rice in rows (Looks like a row crop of rice).

Water/Water Table: Access to water is much easier. Fields have a shallow "hard pan" bottom and easily hold water. They pump and irrigate from around 25 ft down vs in Texas your looking at 90 plus ft down to lift water. That makes pumping water MUCH cheaper and easier. Also, farmers realize the monitary benefit of having duck ponds.

State Biologist: Night and Day in Missouri. The state WMA's are actually managed for waterfowl with significant habitat management practices occurring...for both ducks and geese. In Texas the Whitetail Deer is King. In Missouri the Duck is King. This will never change in Texas and it is sad that the limited amount of WMA's that are avaialable in Texas are not managed in the same mannor.

20 Million Snow Geese: I think it is simply a matter of people not being able to accurately guestimate the population. People see a field full of geese and they get excitted and over estimate. The best way I have found estimate numbers in a field is to try to compare what your spread looks like against what I am seeing.


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## Goose Lover (Jan 23, 2012)

I saw a Sandhill Crane this afternoon. It was a couple of miles west of Midfield.

Thought that was notable.


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## chuck leaman (Jul 15, 2004)

Had a group of Sandhills go over my house in Nada Wednesday. Heard them and it took a while to spot them at migration altitude.


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## Category6 (Nov 21, 2007)

my dog crapped on the floor in the hallway yesterday


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## Goose Lover (Jan 23, 2012)

Saw 17 Sandhills in a plowed field just south of the Attwater's Prairie Chicken NWR.

Not more than 50-75 yards off the highway. 

That's really late for Sandhills for around here.


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