# Big Gator



## WilliamH (May 21, 2004)

I read about this gator in TF and Game. 13', 758# Came off the Trinity River One shot!!



















http://www.garguys.com/common.php?file=photoGallery/gallery.php&recent=true


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## makoman2 (Jan 14, 2006)

Why did they kill it .It's only a baby!


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## Rack Ranch (May 25, 2004)

must be 100 years old..


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## Buck Master (Oct 19, 2004)

Big ol lizard!


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## WilliamH (May 21, 2004)

Here's the story. -

_Danny Vines knew he was hunting for a big alligator, but he wasn't fully prepared for the reptile that surfaced from the murky Trinity River slough. In all its saurian splendor, the gator resembled an aquatic dinosaur from a prehistoric waterway. It was, instead, a relic that grew to enormous proportions equidistant from Dallas and Houston. _

_Vines, a Lufkin businessman, knew the gator was a big one because his guides had told him about this particular animal. Steve Barclay and Sam Lovell, aka the Gar Guys, are making an international reputation hunting giant alligator gar with bow and arrow. The East Texas fishing/hunting guides have roamed the Trinity most of their lives. _

_For several years, they had watched the big alligator patrolling a stretch of waterway. Barclay said they were unable to get a permit in time last September. _

_"We were dove hunting with Danny and happened to mention this big gator, and Danny said he would be interested in hunting it," Barclay said. _

_Texas Parks and Wildlife made it easier to hunt East Texas alligators this year by creating a spring season outside of the 22 coastal counties that have the densest alligator populations. _

_On May 2, with Vines aboard their airboat, the Gar Guys *cruised into a narrow slough that penetrates private property off the main river. They had permission to hunt on the property.* Lovell was driving when Barclay glimpsed a big gator as it slipped into the water. They circled back to the river, where Lovell waited with the boat as Barclay and Vines got out on the bank and stalked the alligator. _

_"We got to a high bank across from where we'd seen the gator," Vines said. "It had rained the night before, and the whole place was a muddy mess. We used binoculars and glassed up and down the slough for about 15 minutes before the alligator surfaced. All we could see was his head, and Steve just wasn't sure we were looking at the big one." _

_Maybe the alligator sensed danger. It sank beneath the surface again, and the two men studied the water anxiously. Vines finally saw the alligator swimming away from them on the far side of the slough. Its entire body was visible, with its broad, powerful tail making a ripple on the water as it swam. _

_From that view, Barclay knew for sure this was the gator they were after. At 72 yards, Vines steadied his rifle, tracking the alligator until he was certain he could make an accurate shot. The gator was just about to disappear around a bend in the slough when Vines fired. _

_It was a perfect brain shot. The huge reptile shivered and rolled upside down, floating on the slough's surface. Barclay called his partner, who fired up the airboat and came to retrieve the hunters and their prey. In the narrow slough, the airboat ran over the gator, which sank out of sight. _

_The men worked for more than an hour with a grappling hook before they were able to snag the submerged carcass. _

_"When it came up through the murk, the first thing I saw was the white belly," said Vines. "I couldn't believe how big it was. It looked like a dinosaur. One of the gator's feet surfaced, and I grabbed it. The alligator twitched, and I thought it was still alive, but I didn't turn loose of the foot. The twitch was just a reflex action." _

_The men got ropes on the gator and set up a 2,000-pound winch to load the huge animal into the boat. That job took an hour. Twice, the winch bogged down under the alligator's weight. Vines is having the Trinity River giant mounted. Vines will travel to Africa later this year, and he's already e-mailed a photo of the Trinity River gator to his professional hunter. _

_"I told him that I want to shoot a Nile crocodile that's bigger than my Texas alligator, but there's a good chance that it won't happen," said Vines. _

_As big as the Trinity River gator was, four other 13-footers have been reported to TP&W this spring, including a Harris County alligator that measured 13 feet, 9 inches. Monique Slaughter, a natural resource specialist for the state agency, said the longest Texas alligator measured since closely monitored modern alligator seasons began in 1983 totaled 14-4. _

_"The traditional alligator season is September," Slaughter said. "During the September season, we usually see one or two 13-footers. The bigger animals are more susceptible to hunting in the spring. The water is still cool, and they need to get out in the sun to warm up." _


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## capn (Aug 11, 2005)

Heck, I thought it was illegal to shoot em with a rifle in Texas, guess I was wrong. Doesn't sound like a very fun way to hunt it though, and a high chance of a misdirected shot doing nothing more than wounding it.

The hook and line, quick shot to the head method works well.


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## RussellG (Jun 23, 2004)

I'm with you Capn, thought they had to be hooked, noosed, or on a line somehow before shooting? Don't know too many folks that will go noodling around for an unhooked gator after the shot is made. That is a big lizard though in the article...was your gator about 9-10 feet Capn?

RG


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## chuck leaman (Jul 15, 2004)

They do have to be taken with hook and line. Im not sure if archery is even allowed in Texas.


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## WilliamH (May 21, 2004)

Before we get too far into the legality . . . . .

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/huntwild/hunt/planning/alligator/

Lawful firearms:

*IMPORTANT NOTICE*

*Firearms may be used to take alligators ONLY on private property. It is UNLAWFUL to take an alligator by means of firearms from, in, on, across or over PUBLIC WATER. Centerfire ONLY; rimfire UNLAWFUL, except for dispatch.*

*An alligator captured on a taking device (line set, lawful archery equipment, gig, or snare) MUST be killed IMMEDIATELY.*


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## chuck leaman (Jul 15, 2004)

Thanks for clearing that up William.


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## Bucksnort (Jun 29, 2004)

chuck leaman said:


> They do have to be taken with hook and line. Im not sure if archery is even allowed in Texas.


Yeah,hmmm, the way the hunt was described sounds totally illegal. I do know that archery is allowed on gator but they do have to be caught with hook and line first.


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## spotsndots (May 20, 2005)

Obviously the Trinity river is public water. The guy shot is with a legal firearm standing on private property that he had permission to hunt on. Since the gator was in the water when shot, I take that as public water and not private property. I am interpreting this correctly or is the water considered private? Just curious. Either way that is a massive gator!!



WilliamH said:


> Before we get too far into the legality . . . . .
> 
> http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/huntwild/hunt/planning/alligator/
> 
> ...


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## capn (Aug 11, 2005)

Russell, that one was 9'7". The big one got away.

The info that William posted is only the means to dispatch the gator. In other words, when you have a gator on hook and line you can't use a .22. It says nothing about shooting a gator and letting it sink, then using a grapling hook - which is legal in other states, by the way. The link says the following means are legal:

One or more of the following legal means and methods may be used for the taking an alligator, but only ONE method at a time can be utilized:


Hook and Line (line set). Line sets must be secured on private property. Hook-bearing lines may not be set prior to the open season and shall be removed no later than sunset on the last day of the season. Each baited line shall be labeled with a plainly visible, permanent, and legibly marked gear tag that contains the full name and current address of the person who set the line and the hunting license number of the person who set the line. Line sets shall be inspected daily and alligators shall be killed, documented, and removed IMMEDIATELY upon discovery.
Lawful Archery equipment (with barbed arrow) - longbow, recurve bow, or compound bow with reel device and arrows with line of at least 300# test securely attached to the barbed fish point.
Hand-held Snare - size No. 4 or larger with integral locking mechanism attached to 50 feet of at least 300# test line and a long pole.
Alligator Gig - may be used only when a line of at least 300# test is securely attached to the hook or head of the device in such a manner to prevent separation from the hook or head until the carcass is retrieved. The other end of the line must be attached to a stationary or floating object capable of maintaining the line above water when an alligator is attached.
But to be honest, I don't really care as long as they recovered it. A game warden might, but not I.


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## capn (Aug 11, 2005)

spotsndots said:


> Obviously the Trinity river is public water. The guy shot is with a legal firearm standing on private property that he had permission to hunt on. Since the gator was in the water when shot, I take that as public water and not private property. I am interpreting this correctly or is the water considered private? Just curious. Either way that is a massive gator!!


Typically, your hook and line are attached to private land and that's good enough. In this case with no connection to private land other than where the hunter was standing, I have no idea.


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## WilliamH (May 21, 2004)

I guess it is an "interpretation" deal. I read it as - if you are on private property then it is legal to shoot a gator with a firearm as long as it is not a rimfire. No hook and line required.

The question I have - Is a slough considered private property? 

Nonetheless - one big gator.


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## MEGABITE (May 21, 2004)

OK, who's going to hand out the Junior Game Warden badges?


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## Levelwind (Apr 15, 2005)

WilliamH said:


> The question I have - Is a slough considered private property?


That's probably the answer. It probably was legal. Dumb. Irresponsible. Should be illegal, but probably legal.

At *72 yards!!!! *

That's what caught my eye - the animal was moving??? VERY lucky to have gotten a kill shot no matter how good he is and a broken jaw would likely have created a monster.

They should outlaw shooting them without a hook in them. Period. Just because a crippled 13 footer is on private land now doesn't mean he will be when he goes looking for something easy he can catch and eat.


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## huntinguy (Aug 22, 2005)

I'm for Catch and Release on this matter! If we kill all the big ones what will our children hunt?










J/K!!!....................only reason I didn't clean this one was that he was a bit on the small and I caught him while I was at work and didn't have time to clean him.

I repeat, I'm all for shootin a few gators.


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## capn (Aug 11, 2005)

After reading it thru several times, I can see how William interpreted it and he's probably right. Pretty dang risky to just let it sink though, if you don't find it it will be floating in a day or two, ruined.


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## huntinguy (Aug 22, 2005)

btw.....I'm from La and we don't have any regulations agains dispatching them with a ball peen hammer.....only gator regulations say are: *All loin meat must be cooked in a sauce piquante. :slimer: *


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## Syncerus (Oct 18, 2005)

If I had property in the area, I'd be all in favor of shooting the really big gators. That's just a little too big to have roaming around with the general public. Back in the swamps is fine and dandy, but any place that is likely to be frequented by kids ...

All in all, it's a really nice trophy and I can't criticise the catch in any way.


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## Bucksnort (Jun 29, 2004)

I criticize any illegal means of taking an animal. If this was done legally thats cool if not...not cool. No doubt itsa big gator.


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## StevePage (Aug 1, 2006)

I know the hunter personally. Great animal, but he buys his trophy's if you know what I mean. If I had a billion dollars I'd probly have some record animals in my den also. The guys he "chartered" to put him on the animal are really awesome at gar fishing. Just my .02, regardless it is a very impressive animal


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## Levelwind (Apr 15, 2005)

I don't care that he buys his trophies, don't care much if they'd have lost the dead carcass, have no problem with the killing of the alligator.

"_ At 72 yards, Vines steadied his rifle, tracking the alligator until he was certain he could make an accurate shot. The gator was just about to disappear around a bend in the slough when Vines fired." _

This is the part I have a *BIG* problem with. It's irresponsible and stupid and except for good luck would have resulted in an EXTREMELY dangerous cripple in the neighborhood OR a slow agonizing death for a cool animal older than I. Most problem gators have gunshot wounds to jaws, craniums, front legs, blind eyes, etc. which render them ineffecient at catching their natural forage. Then they take to catching domestic animals, and that's when kids (and with this one, grownups) are likely to be at risk. A shot like that shows a lack of respect for the animal, the neighbors, and the environment, legal or not. If you're going to shoot an unrestrained gator, do it at close range on the bank or in shallow water where it can be followed up and finished if necessary. Amateurs should be required to hook them first.


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## capn (Aug 11, 2005)

Have a hard time disagreeing with that... gators brain is not much bigger than a golf ball from what I've heard, and the plate over top is extremely tough. I've heard many stories of those plates deflecting pistol rounds at point blank... which is why we used a .410 or 20 gauge. That bullet can hit two inches off and do no more than wound it, or it could hit dead on and still deflect and wound it.

Granted that's a risk you take, just like bowhunting deer, and I'm not worried about the gator. But like Levelwind said - wounded gators become nuisance gators and potential people eaters very easily.

I still like the excitement of pulling them up next to the boat while they're still alive and plenty frisky.


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## deadeye68 (Jan 19, 2007)

Legal or not, Levelwind you make a very good point. Even shooting from a bench, a brain shot on a moving target at 72 yards is not a guaranteed one shot kill. Seems a bit reckless to me.


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## JDean (Jun 30, 2005)

Thats an impressive animal. I won't comment on the rest except to say, he obviously shot it ACROSS and OVER public water. What am I missing?



> *It is UNLAWFUL to take an alligator by means of firearms from, in, on, across or over PUBLIC WATER*.


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## BertS (May 21, 2004)

I think if you fellas really believe it was harvested illegally, you should call TPWD 

you have the hunter's name, and the name of the outfitters.....let TPWD investigate the legality of the hunt........


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## Bucksnort (Jun 29, 2004)

BertS said:


> I think if you fellas really believe it was harvested illegally, you should call TPWD
> 
> you have the hunter's name, and the name of the outfitters.....let TPWD investigate the legality of the hunt........


There are some game wardens that are members of this forum


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## StinkBait (May 31, 2004)

GonnaMissR said:


> Thats an impressive animal. I won't comment on the rest except to say, he obviously shot it ACROSS and OVER public water. What am I missing?


That was my first thought too


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## Levelwind (Apr 15, 2005)

No, I don't think so. He shot it in a slough off the Trinity which was probably flooded up, seasonal water. If you can get to it in a boat you can fish it but that doesn't make it public. The Trinity itself is definitely public but I expect the slough was an oxbow or something flooded up from recent rains. Could be wrong but if his two guides are not total dummies doubt they'd have forgotten to mention they were breaking the law.


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## Freshwaterman (May 21, 2004)

dad gum that's one big new age - new world - dinosuar

Image what it would be like if this guys still hunted texas:


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## texas two guns (Jan 23, 2006)

Those guys are the the "Gar Guys". Totally legal and really nice helping people. I know them personally and know that that they would not break the law. They are on the forfront of bowfishing and now alligator hunting. I dont' not believe they would rish their growing business or personal lives by taking a client on an illegal hunt.

These guys are for real and if you want a day hunting dinasours, it'll cost you $2500 a trip and that ain't even a start at the state of the art Silver Dollar airboat there running. Here is their website http://garguys.com/. If you question their ethics or legallities, give them a call they'll surely take the time to explain it to you.


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## Pocboy (Aug 12, 2004)

"Momma says alligators are hornery 'cause they got all them teeth and no one to floss them".......aw, never mind.


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## TXDRAKE (Jun 24, 2004)

By what the law says of "From, In, On or Across Public Water" and where it says in the article "They circled back to the river, where lovell waited with the boat as Barclay and Vines got out on the Bank and Stalked the Alligator." So that tells me (by the way the article was written) that this was not just a flooded portion of the river (as some have stated) as they apparently were VERY close the river and even if they were standing on Private Property they still fired a high caliber weapon across a very open stretch (72 yards) of open water. Sounds very fishy (no pun intended) to me and although they may be very reputable guides on a normal basis, Money talks and well you know the rest and not to mention the possible press that this monster gator would bring. I have known and heard of normally law bidding and very responsible guides get those $ signs in their eyes and or feel the overwhelming pressure of having to produce the promised animal at all costs. Seems like at the very least it needs to be investigated by the proper authorities (which by the way is not me). I know if it were me, I would have had a cavity search performed and I am by no means a "ride the line" type of hunter or illegal hunter and have never had a citation issued for anything done wrong while hunting or fishing, but I am capable of making mistakes just as these fellas were or are. Just my .02 worth.


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## SeaBees (Jun 28, 2004)

*all for hunting gators however*

lost in all the legality issues is the fact that this was probably a 75 year old animal that survived naturally by its superior instincts and genes. None of those will be passed on. Seems like a waste


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## Lagunar boy aka Josh (Mar 8, 2007)

capn said:


> Heck, I thought it was illegal to shoot em with a rifle in Texas, guess I was wrong. Doesn't sound like a very fun way to hunt it though, and a high chance of a misdirected shot doing nothing more than wounding it.
> 
> The hook and line, quick shot to the head method works well.


Thats how we do it


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## Dan20703 (Jun 22, 2004)

capn said:


> Heck, I thought it was illegal to shoot em with a rifle in Texas, guess I was wrong. Doesn't sound like a very fun way to hunt it though, and a high chance of a misdirected shot doing nothing more than wounding it.
> 
> The hook and line, quick shot to the head method works well.


The law was changed when they started a separate season for the non-core counties. The opinion of most licensed alligator dealers (buyers of hides, etc.) is that it is a stupid idea that will get someone hurt and waste more gators than you would using conventional methods. Imagine a bunch of guys drinking beer all day and then seeing gators in the water on private property that they "legally" have access to hunt. Stray shots, wounded gators and potentially wounded hunters trying to retrieve a sunken gator.

Big mistake by the TPWD in my opinion.


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## BOB198 (Jun 17, 2007)

i hate you. it did not try to attack you and its only a baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Charles Helm (Oct 22, 2004)

Crocs are killed with rifles all the time in Africa. If people are going to get drunk and shoot when they should not, I am not sure it is an alligator-specific issue.

The main thing of concern I think would be the increased possibility of a richochet.

Some will probably be lost but I am not sure shooting one with a rifle is less sporting than hooking it and shooting it with a pistol when it is next to or in the boat.

Of course, I haven't hunted them so I guess I will bow out now.


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## Levelwind (Apr 15, 2005)

Charles Helm said:


> Crocs are killed with rifles all the time in Africa. If people are going to get drunk and shoot when they should not, I am not sure it is an alligator-specific issue.
> 
> Imagine that. Wonder why. Reeling in a gut-hooked 20 ft. Saltwater Croc might be a little too sporty for most. Besides if they wound one, they just go to the next. After all, all the wounded one's going to do is eat a few native kids. Which crocs are bad about to begin with.
> 
> ...


All opinions are welcome. Yours just happens to be based on faulty logic.


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## Charles Helm (Oct 22, 2004)

Levelwind said:


> All opinions are welcome. Yours just happens to be based on faulty logic.


I must have missed where you disagreed with my points which were that people may act in an unsafe manner regardless of the game they are pursuing, and that hunting with a rifle versus trapping/baiting may both be sporting and that I am not sure that one is inherently better than the other.

Reasonable minds may of course disagree.

So long as people follow the law and act safely then I am all for it.

Eidt: I do not mean this to appear confrontational, just that your indictment of my logic did not seem to sepcifically address what I posted.

In any event, neither hunt is one in which I am particularly interested. It just seemed that using a rifle was being indicted more because it is not what has been typically done here rather than because it must of necessity be bad. I do agree that in this case, as in others, it is subject to abuse.


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## huntr4life (Apr 30, 2007)

Wow that is a big dude.


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## Levelwind (Apr 15, 2005)

Charles Helm said:


> I must have missed where you disagreed with my points which were that people may act in an unsafe manner regardless of the game they are pursuing, and that hunting with a rifle versus trapping/baiting may both be sporting and that I am not sure that one is inherently better than the other.


Charles,

I don't mind repeating myself. No sarcasm or levity intended this time.

Allowing amateurs to hunt gators with a rifle is bad because

1. *The kill zone is beyond the abilities of 90% of so called "riflemen" who take to deer stands every year - at 20 yards.* Nevermind 70. Or 100. Or 200.

However,

2. A gator's *head is a fair sized target and will be struck (somewhere) in a fairly high percentage of shots. *

*The mathematical result between 1 and 2 will be crippled alligators*. Crippled alligators become bad alligators because they still need to eat. So *they eat what crippled alligators can - handouts around docks, dumb little (or big) yappy dogs, your lab, your grandchildren.*

*By MY definition, a method of take which results in a high percentage of game crippled and lost is not sporting.* Fact of the matter is that I don't find ANY alligator hunting particularly challenging (but I have never tried archery), but rifle plunking certainly isn't. In FACT, in THIS case, *it is worse than unsporting. It is irresponsible.* For the reasons stated above. Hooked gators are almost never lost once engaged and when they are, are probably too sick to be much of a problem due to the large steel hook in them.


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## StevePage (Aug 1, 2006)

SeaBees said:


> lost in all the legality issues is the fact that this was probably a 75 year old animal that survived naturally by its superior instincts and genes. None of those will be passed on. Seems like a waste


that 75 year old gator has probly passed on more DNA than anyone that has posted on this particular thread, he was old, just like an old deer that anyone of us would have shot in the hunting forum. I feel that just cause an animal is big, doesn't mean we shouldn't take them out of the field-water. Humans are the top of the food chain, as long as we are not depleting our resources why not. I have seen gators that big before many times, no I did not shoot their brains out, and I have caught alot of big fish that I've turned back, not cause I wanted to but because they are a pain in the arse to clean vs. a smaller fish. Genes are Genes and they will be passed because I'm sure their are much bigger ones that noone has seen before breeding stock that we haven't seen before somewhere that we haven't been before that are producing such animals/fish. I know the trinity river fairly well (not good enough to be a guide) but in mr. vines defense, we all know how the newspaper skews the facts. We can all get full time jobs busting stories about the game laws, but some of us prefer to fish and hunt instead of sit in an office building and talk about hunting/fishing. I feel that (may be wrong, but not the first time) Mr. Vines took the animal legally (sure it cost a bundle) and I am almost positive that any avid Hunter/Fisherman would have shot that gator too if they had 1/4 the chance to do it, I know I would have and I would have a nice pair of boots made from his hide. We sometimes forget that humans have been hunter/gatherers for millions of years. this could go "jungle bound" in no time flat, but if he did something illegal or out of his means, he would be busted wide open, it was on the front page of the Lufkin Daily News his local communities paper. It really don't matter how I feel about it, but he got the gator, its probly mounted by now, its probly being picked up by his personal assistant, and his maintenance man is probly hangin it on his wall. I'm not gonna hug a tree about it and start crying, I have fish to catch, I just wish I didn't waste this much time typing all this junk, :hairout:


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## Charles Helm (Oct 22, 2004)

Levelwind said:


> Charles,
> 
> I don't mind repeating myself. No sarcasm or levity intended this time.
> 
> ...


I could type for five minutes but the end result is I have no argument with any of that up to the unsporting part. There is a group of hunters for whom taking the difficult shot is the challenge, and they are good at it. I am not one of them. Someone has to make the decision about whether we can trust the hunters to try the shots they can make. TPWD has apparently decided to let them try. I guess we will see if we get any data (real or anecdotal) on woundings and if it causes TPWD to change their mind.

To be clear, I would not support rifle hunting of alligators if your supposition is correct as I do not support wounding and losing game.

Is there good data about wounded alligators becoming dangerous and a nuisance in Texas? It is clear that you are familiar with the problem, one that I am had not been aware of.

One of the reasons I have little interest in hunting crocs, even though they eat more people than any other dangerous game animal, is that it is a test of marksmanship rather than the type of up-close hunting I would prefer. Getting close is where the excitement and challenge are for me.


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## Levelwind (Apr 15, 2005)

Charles Helm said:


> I guess we will see if we get any data (real or anecdotal) on woundings and if it causes TPWD to change their mind.


There's plenty of anecdotes, Charles, but little hard data and probably never will be. TPWD also allows bowhunting of big game, but most people who do it can't shoot OR track anywhere near well enough that they should be doing it. I can vouch for THAT first hand as well. An unrestrained gator can be taken with a firearm in a responsible, high percentage manner in some cases by some hunters. You need to get close, between the animal and the water, and not miss the kill zone. Of course, if you do, you are going to have an even closer shot in a half a second or so. Most people aren't up for that much excitement.

I'm roundly criticized by some because I enjoy pass shooting geese. I've done it for 45 years, I usually use a ten guage, and I shoot geese that most people won't shoot at. But I'm fairly discriminating about where I do it (not to screw guys who have spent 3 hours putting out a spread), use a good dog or two for retrieves, and have fewer hit but lost birds than most guys hunting over decoys. So I understand your point about shooting skill being part of the challenge. But bad as it is to lose a crippled goose, they don't become a danger to the community.


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## omegaman66 (May 28, 2004)

I doubt that it was that old... probably half that at the very longest and could easily be only 20 years old. Gators can live a long time and can probably reach 75 in captivity but in the wild they rarely get anywere near that age. The size of the gator in question doesn't indicate that it was an ancient behemoth.


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## capn (Aug 11, 2005)

Charles Helm said:


> Is there good data about wounded alligators becoming dangerous and a nuisance in Texas?


I don't know what you would call good data, but if you ask any biologist that spends time working with gators they would confirm what Levelwind just said about crippling being a major factor in gators becoming a nuisance and/or dangerous to humans.


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## texas two guns (Jan 23, 2006)

Mr. Vines, from my understanding, is a big game hunter, as in Dangerous Game, so I would presume that he is a descent shot and hopefully equally quick and accurate under extreme stress situations, such as mentioned by Levelwind. Either way, when outdoorsman can't hand together about "LEGAL" hunting/fishing methods, how can we stand united against the likes of PETA, HCI, etc...


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## Charles Helm (Oct 22, 2004)

Thanks for the info -- you can imagine I do not get much first-hand information on nuisance gators in Dallas.


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## capn (Aug 11, 2005)

texas two guns said:


> Either way, when outdoorsman can't hand together about "LEGAL" hunting/fishing methods, how can we stand united against the likes of PETA, HCI, etc...


And when outdoorsmen can't police their own when something is legal but shouldn't be, you open a door where Peta and the like can step in and help rewrite the rules.


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## texas two guns (Jan 23, 2006)

Not if we unite. 
How many people killed from accidental death by alligator hunters? As compared to say Nascar.
How many lost/wounded aligators. As compared to say rod and reel fishing.


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## Syncerus (Oct 18, 2005)

*News of the day ...*

To reiterate my earlier position on the desirablity of shooting very large gators that live in areas commonly frequented by the public:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,286756,00.html

*VENICE, Fla. - A Tennessee man survived an attack by an alligator while retrieving a golf ball at a Florida golf course Monday.*

Bruce Burger, of Lenore City, Tenn., reached into a pond at the sixth hole of *Lake Venice Golf Club* Monday afternoon when the alligator apparently grabbed his right forearm Course Manager *Rod Parry* told FOXNews.com.

"He didn't see the gator," Parry said. "Obviously, the gator reacted to what he probably thought was some kind of food."

The alligator latched onto Burger's right forearm and pulled him in the pond, said *Gary Morse*, a spokesman for the *Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission*. He used his left arm to beat on the reptile until it freed him.

Parry said the man reportedly called for help and a lady came, got in his golf cart and took him to the clubhouse.

"I saw him reach down to get his ball and he yelled ... 'Help. Help. I've been bitten by a gator,"' said *Janet Pallo*, who was playing the fifth hole and ran over to take the man to the clubhouse.

A compress was held directly on Burger's wound until paramedics arrived.

Burger had puncture wounds on his right forearm as well as a strained groin from the attack. Parry said when medical personnel arrived, Burger was placed on a gurney and transported to a local hospital.

"We hope he's doing pretty well," he told FOXNews.com.

Morse said the gator measured 10 feet, 11 inches.

Parry said it took officers around an hour and 20 minutes to bait the gator before taking him away. He was unsure if the gator was one-eyed, but did say he was told it was blind in one eye.

Parry said course employees recalled another time when a golfer had been attacked on the course. The golfer's shoe was punctured when an alligator bit his foot while retrieving a ball at the same pond where Burger was bitten.

The pond at the sixth hole has a "Beware of Alligator" sign posted because the staff is aware that a large alligator likes to hang out there.

"Unfortunately, that's part of Florida," Parry said. "There's wildlife in these ponds."


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## Bucksnort (Jun 29, 2004)

C'mon, who can blame the gator for wanting to eat a Burger?


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## TXPalerider (May 21, 2004)

Bucksnort said:


> C'mon, who can blame the gator for wanting to eat a Burger?


No kidding!! I'm always up for a good burger!!


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## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

Good Lord...he killed a big gator, end of story.

TH


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