# Who puts Rye Grass down in the winter? Over St. Augustine



## GMTK (Sep 8, 2008)

I was reading this link http://2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/showthread.php?t=239286&highlight=lawn+grubs

and noticed some guys talking about putting Rye grass down this time of year over their St. Augustine. I live in Pearland, and have a sprinkler system. Someone told me once that putting Rye over the St. Augustine hurts the St. Augustine.

Any 2coolers got some ideas on this?


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## SeaDeezKnots (Aug 23, 2006)

I used to until i heard the same thing. Rumor has it that the ryegrass will deplete the nutrients the St. Augustine needs come springtime. May want to confirm. Misinformation is all over the interwebs.


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## DoublePlay (Jul 9, 2009)

I do it every year. Comes in pretty fast and stays green until well into the Spring when my St Augustine comes back. Buy the big bag and spread it pretty thick. Also be sure you cover your flower beds with a sheet before you start to spread or you will be growing new rye in there as well.
Easy, easy, easy and looks great when all the other yards on your street are brown.


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## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

Only sadistic wives do this to keep you away from the deer lease...


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## badfisherman (Dec 30, 2005)

*Rye grass!*



GMTK said:


> I was reading this link http://2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/showthread.php?t=239286&highlight=lawn+grubs
> 
> and noticed some guys talking about putting Rye grass down this time of year over their St. Augustine. I live in Pearland, and have a sprinkler system. Someone told me once that putting Rye over the St. Augustine hurts the St. Augustine.
> 
> Any 2coolers got some ideas on this?


 I don't think it hurts the St. Augustine at all..as long as you take care of your normal fertilization in early spring..Just get ready for more mowing..I did it one year and never again..I am tired of mowing..Me and my mower need a break..Good luck to ya and be sure and fertilize next spring.!


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## scruffiest1 (Nov 7, 2005)

x2 on the mowing,never again


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## bg (May 21, 2004)

The main reason it hurts the St Augustine is that in order to actually cut rye and not just have it lay over when you run the mower over it, you need to drop the deck to 2" or so. It's bad, bad, bad to cut St Augustine lower than 3" and really better to cut it at 3.5 - 4. Cutting it down to 2" through the winter to keep the rye looking good leaves the SA more susceptible to freezing temperatures and opens it up to fungus, disease and insect damage in the Spring.

Also, you'll have to cut rye about every 5 days or it'll constantly look scraggly.


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## monkeyman1 (Dec 30, 2007)

i'd tend to agree that the rye would tend to rob the st aug from nutrients when it (st aug) goes dormant in the cooler months. and like the others, i like the break from mowing


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## Tiny (Dec 19, 2006)

Dude!!! It's Winter Time!! You're not supposed to cut grass in the Winter time!! Say NO to Rye Winter Grass!!


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## monkeyman1 (Dec 30, 2007)

uh-oh, i see that one of the currently active users is named "grassman". so quit lurking grassman and set us straight !


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## H2 (Jan 11, 2005)

monkeyman1 said:


> uh-oh, i see that one of the currently active users is named "grassman". so quit lurking grassman and set us straight !


He may be a dealer?:cheers:


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## Texas Jeweler (Nov 6, 2007)

If you seed with gulf coast rye grass, your going to hate it when you mow it. Clogs the mower up, wet...

What reason would you wish to over seed the St. Augustine in the first place? To each his own.


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## Slightly Dangerous (May 21, 2004)

Different kind of grass....


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## monkeyman1 (Dec 30, 2007)

Texas Jeweler said:


> What reason would you wish to over seed the St. Augustine in the first place?


to make his grass pertier than the neighbors, even if he has to mow it in the winter once a week h:.


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## Super Dave (May 26, 2004)

what about rye to stabilize the sand and minimize the runoff at the beach lawns?


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## monkeyman1 (Dec 30, 2007)

Super Dave said:


> what about rye to stabilize the sand and minimize the runoff at the beach lawns?


i've done that dave, when i had little to no san augustine. they sell the seed at the big store too, or at least i saw it last time i was there.


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## donf (Aug 8, 2005)

No mowing in the winter!
It's the law.


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## Rubberback (Sep 9, 2008)

I plant it in our pecan orchard.It not only helps the pecan trees. The deer eat it to boot.When the rye dies out it provides nitrogen to the trees.


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## GMTK (Sep 8, 2008)

Thanks guys (and gals) for the input. The only reason I am looking at putting it down (just in my back yard) is that I had a sprinkler system put in and there is still a lot of muddy areas that the St. Augustine have not grown in. With three dogs.......the house constantly has mud in it. The wife is on me to come up with a solution. I put down a couple pieces of sod but due to the moisture we've had the mud is still there and thus the problem is not fixed. I'm not worried about the mowing - our nephew is living with us while going to school so he gets mowing privileges.


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## speckle-catcher (May 20, 2004)

Super Dave said:


> what about rye to stabilize the sand and minimize the runoff at the beach lawns?


anything is better than nothing.

FWIW - I bought 2 bags of Bermuda at Lowes and applied one to my sand. It's filling in nicely. Go by and check it out. I'm waiting to use the other bag to fill in some spots where I need to do more leveling.


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## waterspout (May 21, 2004)

bg said:


> The main reason it hurts the St Augustine is that in order to actually cut rye and not just have it lay over when you run the mower over it, you need to drop the deck to 2" or so. It's bad, bad, bad to cut St Augustine lower than 3" and really better to cut it at 3.5 - 4. Cutting it down to 2" through the winter to keep the rye looking good leaves the SA more susceptible to freezing temperatures and opens it up to fungus, disease and insect damage in the Spring.
> 
> Also, you'll have to cut rye about every 5 days or it'll constantly look scraggly.


LOL,, 5 days? they are going to need to cut it ever three to keep it down. Then kill it out come spring or it will choke the SA out! I do it to our fields etc.. but you won't see it in my yard. I lmao yesterday when I noticed my neighbors lawn guy had ryed his yard... He's going to wish that crud wasn't there come January!!!!! rotfl! If you want to mow(or pay someone) twice a week in 40 or below weather rain or shine... go for it!!!!! :biggrin:

Super,, it may help the erosion some but Rye's root system doesn't spread out,, it more or less goes straight down and it's easily ripped out.
Speckle has the right idea for your sand lot....


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## speckle-catcher (May 20, 2004)

Spout - since you know grass, isn't getting a bit too cool for Bermuda to germinate?

rye would at least help with erosion until Bermuda can germinate.


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## Fishdaze (Nov 16, 2004)

My brother put it down one year for the winter when he was a new home owner and wanted to keep his yard green. Never Again! He was mowing more in the winter than he did in the summer and never got a break.:hairout:


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## mtaswt (Aug 10, 2007)

I put down some rye grass at a friends house as a prank one year.......he never knew who it was and i got a good laugh out of it twice a week while he was mowing it!

me personally.....i would never put it down. it is too tough to mow when it gets high, and who wants to mow year round?

it does look good though


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## br1006 (Mar 24, 2006)

I have a similar problem due to the drought in SA area this year. I pretty much lost a little over half of my bermuda grass in the backyard. Tried planting some Bermuda seed two months ago but it literally got washed away when we had some big rains. To try and reduce some of the erosion and keep the mud down with the dogs I planted some rye grass in over the weekend. We had a nice little rain last night so hoping it will help. I plan on aerating and spreading compost in the spring then resodding the whole darn thing after doing a little landscaping work. 

I know I was dreading the mowing to come as I spread the rye seed but I dont have a choice, I need to keep the mud to a minimum!


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## waterspout (May 21, 2004)

speckle-catcher said:


> Spout - since you know grass, isn't getting a bit too cool for Bermuda to germinate?
> 
> rye would at least help with erosion until Bermuda can germinate.


yes to both,,, your Bermuda will go dormant where SA doesn't so much.. that's why it's OK to over seed Bermuda athletic fields with rye during the winter. It also helps keep the Soccer guys from ripping the Bermuda to dirt. but come spring we still blast the field with chems. to kill that dang rye out or we'll have naked spots because of it. Apartments use it because the lawn guys aren't stupid.. they like that check in the winter time also.. Just saying the ryes root system doesn't spread out across the ground like SA or Bermuda either one... you can get pre germinated but it cost.. there are other grasses that will do good down there.. Let me see which would work best for you guys and I'll let you know.:cheers:


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## DANO (May 23, 2005)

GMTK said:


> Thanks guys (and gals) for the input. The only reason I am looking at putting it down (just in my back yard) is that I had a sprinkler system put in and there is still a lot of muddy areas that the St. Augustine have not grown in. With three dogs.......the house constantly has mud in it. The wife is on me to come up with a solution. I put down a couple pieces of sod but due to the moisture we've had the mud is still there and thus the problem is not fixed. I'm not worried about the mowing - our nephew is living with us while going to school so he gets mowing privileges.


Here is what we did,... Our fenced in part of the yard is where the dogs ( big ) roam. Get Bermuda Grass seed, broadcast it and water. Bermuda grass when established in your lawn accepts the traffic of dogs and people better than st. augustine plus, it feels good on your bare feet. In the winter put down 'Perennial Rye" seed in the main "run" areas for the dogs. Cut you grass high, use a mulch mower. Mow your grass in a different direction every time, this will help keep the lawn healthy and full. :biggrin:

hope this helps


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## waterspout (May 21, 2004)

Only reason we use rye is we have a guy that uses one of these five days a week.. rotary mowers Bite on Bermuda... 
http://www.toro.com/golf/mower/fairway/rm5500/5500.html


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## waterspout (May 21, 2004)

DANO said:


> Here is what we did,... Our fenced in part of the yard is where the dogs ( big ) roam. Get Bermuda Grass seed, broadcast it and water. Bermuda grass when established in your lawn accepts the traffic of dogs and people better than st. augustine plus, it feels good on your bare feet. In the winter put down *'Perennial Rye*" seed in the main "run" areas for the dogs. Cut you grass high, use a mulch mower. Mow your grass in a different direction every time, this will help keep the lawn healthy and full. :biggrin:
> 
> hope this helps


LOL,,, ya, use Perennial.. that way you can enjoy it for years to come. Annual might be a better Idea till you know for a fact you want it every year....:rotfl:


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## John Galt (Aug 6, 2006)

mtaswt said:


> I put down some rye grass at a friends house as a prank one year.......he never knew who it was and i got a good laugh out of it twice a week while he was mowing it!
> 
> me personally.....i would never put it down. it is too tough to mow when it gets high, and who wants to mow year round?
> 
> it does look good though


Yeah...someone in my old neighborhood wrote an obscene word with ryegrass seed in his neighbor's lawn. Bright green letters on a khaki yard. It was way funnier than the dog poop in the burning paper bag trick.

Personally, I don't know why anyone would do ryegrass. One of the great joys of winter is NOT mowing.


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## Poon Chaser (Aug 22, 2006)

Tiny said:


> Dude!!! It's Winter Time!! You're not supposed to cut grass in the Winter time!! Say NO to Rye Winter Grass!!


I agree... just say no... I had a lawn guy scatter that stuff in my yard after i fired him and the grass had to be cut every week. I like the bi-weekly or monthly cutting schedule on the winter.


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## Bone Pile (Jan 23, 2009)

Call Grimes Grass.


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## davidluster (Sep 16, 2008)

I used to have a St Aug lawn. Untill I overseeded with Rye. The next year all my St A was dead as a hammer. So I had to rip it all up and put down new grass. I put down a hybrid bermuda so I could overseed and not worry about it killing off.


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## DANO (May 23, 2005)

waterspout said:


> LOL,,, ya, use Perennial.. that way you can enjoy it for years to come. Annual might be a better Idea till you know for a fact you want it every year....:rotfl:


I was wondering why the wife was griping when mowing the yard last week,.:biggrin:


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## grassman (Mar 2, 2006)

Overseeding with rye wont necessarily hurt your SA. The problem is that if the rye is allowed to grow taller than the SA it will shade it causing it to dye out. You have to remember that half the reason our lawns begin to brown out this time of year is not only the cooler temps but the shortened daylight hours. When you have a competing turf shading the your existing turf this accelerates the decline of your existing lawn. Add in the typically cloudy days of winter and your SA will really struggle.
If I were to overseed my lawn, which I plan to, I will make sure it gets mowed frequently and as soon as my SA begins the Spring green up I will chemically remove the rye grass. As far as the rye zapping your soil of nutrients this is only a problem on 100% sand based root zones. The mud we have down here in most residential lawns retains nutrients very well. With that said I would still plan on some form of fertilizer, simply to make the rye grass look as good as possible.


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## manintheboat (Jun 1, 2004)

I used to do it every winter but not any more. As mentioned earlier, I like the break from mowing. It is also hard to get the seed through the SA so initially the rye comes up a little spotty. It does not hurt the SA, but competes with it during the spring, so your transition isn't that smooth. I prefer to properly fertilize my SA, so it is strong in the spring, which sets it up for the rest of the year. With rye overseed, you are always behind the dime because your transition was not strong.


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## waterspout (May 21, 2004)

grassman said:


> Overseeding with rye wont necessarily hurt your SA. The problem is that if the rye is allowed to grow taller than the SA it will shade it causing it to dye out. You have to remember that half the reason our lawns begin to brown out this time of year is not only the cooler temps but the shortened daylight hours. When you have a competing turf shading the your existing turf this accelerates the decline of your existing lawn. Add in the typically cloudy days of winter and your SA will really struggle.
> If I were to overseed my lawn, which I plan to, I will make sure it gets mowed frequently and as soon as my SA begins the Spring green up* I will chemically remove* the rye grass. As far as the rye zapping your soil of nutrients this is only a problem on 100% sand based root zones. The mud we have down here in most residential lawns retains nutrients very well. With that said I would still plan on some form of fertilizer, simply to make the rye grass look as good as possible.


As I stated,, everyone here doesn't have means of those chems such as MSMA etc. It must be killed off asap in spring or goodby lawn!


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## grassman (Mar 2, 2006)

Home Depot and Lowes sell many products that will kill rye. People who routinely use "Weed and Feeds" with Atrazine will be able to kill their rye grass off using those products. but if you want to do it like the pros do, then take a trip to SouthWest Fertilizer in Bellaire, the have products that will specifically target rye and that wont have the ill effects of atrazine.


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## manintheboat (Jun 1, 2004)

Southwest Fertilizer is the bomb. When is the best time to kill off rye?


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## rodwade (Feb 13, 2007)

When I moved into my house in League City the yard hadn't been watered in 6 months. It was dry and litterally all the roots were gone. I rolled the grass up like carpet. Winter was coming and the St. Augustine wouldn't have had time to setup very much. So I seeded with rye. It ended up very well. I had a nice green grass (with a roomate who did the mowing) and the St Augustine did well come spring. Never any ill effects and once the warmer weather hit it died off and gave some nitrogen into the yard. We mowed once a week. 

Love the idea of the Rye grass sabotoge. Have an A&M neighbor that I'm sure my UT neighbor on the other side would LOVE to get! Big Green longhorn on his yard!


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## Puma (Jun 16, 2009)

grassman said:


> Overseeding with rye wont necessarily hurt your SA. The problem is that if the rye is allowed to grow taller than the SA it will shade it causing it to dye out. You have to remember that half the reason our lawns begin to brown out this time of year is not only the cooler temps but the shortened daylight hours. When you have a competing turf shading the your existing turf this accelerates the decline of your existing lawn. Add in the typically cloudy days of winter and your SA will really struggle.
> If I were to overseed my lawn, which I plan to, I will make sure it gets mowed frequently and as soon as my SA begins the Spring green up I will chemically remove the rye grass. As far as the rye zapping your soil of nutrients this is only a problem on 100% sand based root zones. The mud we have down here in most residential lawns retains nutrients very well. With that said I would still plan on some form of fertilizer, simply to make the rye grass look as good as possible.


There are tons of accessory facts to consider with this topic. One of the biggest is mowing height of both the St. Augustine AND the Rye.

Many people think a good mowing height for SA is 3" or so. Thats too high! However, the lower you mow the more water and routine mowing is needed. Ideally, you would like to mow the SA anywhere from 1.75" to 2.5". At this height there is plenty of shoot density without a lot of thatch accumulation. At higher mowing heights 3+" thatch accumulation is a problem. Excess thatch promotes fungus and hydrophobic conditions, which aid in winter kill. But, most people do not have the time or machine to mow at the lower heights routinely.

Grass going dormant is nothing other than a sign of freeze damage. Thats all. Simply put, the moisture in the cells of the plant freeze and expand and rupture the plant cells. The sluggish and slow growth is due to low sunlight and colder temps.

As far as overseeding SA with Rye. The success of this will depend on several factors. How healthy is the SA? How high is it maintained? Is there any fungus working?

I would mow the Rye at the same height that i mowed the SA all winter long. Fertilize at a minimum with something containing an Fe source for color. Then apply something to smoke the Rye in the spring.

Do not us MSMA on SA!


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## Puma (Jun 16, 2009)

I also might say that I have been overseeding the same SA yard now for about 10 years. We have mowed this grass at various different heights over the years. Most of the time we mowed it at 1.25" once per week in the summer time with a reel mower. It looked awsome. 

We always overseeded the SA. We mowed it at 1.25 and it striped up nicely. I have never had a problem with winter kill or transition in the spring. 

This year is was mowed at 3.5" or so, due to water restrictions. It has Rhizoc all over it and looks terrible. No overseed this year!

The moral of this story is, accumlated thatch in SA is its downfall!


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## Pocketfisherman (May 30, 2005)

I do it. Annual Rye grass is a Nitrogen fixer, and will take nitrogen out of the air and put it into the soil. Good for St Augustine in the spring. Also, mow it and mix the clippings with fall leaves and you have great compost for spring. Only need to mow it about 1-2 times a month here.


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## Puma (Jun 16, 2009)

Pocketfisherman said:


> I do it. Annual Rye grass is a Nitrogen fixer, and will take nitrogen out of the air and put it into the soil. Good for St Augustine in the spring. Also, mow it and mix the clippings with fall leaves and you have great compost for spring. Only need to mow it about 1-2 times a month here.


Sorry, but neither Annual or Perrenial Rye is a nitrogen fixer for the soil. As a matter of fact I do not know of any grass plant that does such. However, Legumes do fix nitrogen in the soil via Rhizob??. Cannot remember proper name. But it is a bacterial process.

On another note. Grass clippings and especially leaves are NOT a good compost until they are completely composted. Until then they will require N for the bacteria to decompose them. Heavy application of un composted material will have a net negative effect on N availability for plants where the material is applied.

This is not to say that returning the un decomposed materials are bad.


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