# 9 day season now..



## trapper67 (Mar 23, 2011)

They just made it official........
http://sero.nmfs.noaa.gov/fishery_bulletins/documents/pdfs/2014/fb14-034_red_snapper_er.pdf


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## whos your daddy (Jun 2, 2004)

What a JOKE!!!


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## Captn C (May 21, 2004)

Cross your fingers the wind allows us to get in 2 days! LOL

The eastern gulf will most like fish all 9 days...


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## saltwatersensations (Aug 30, 2004)

Wow......The madness needs to stop.


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## divingmatt (Dec 7, 2008)

So Much for this season! Wind is probably gonna be brutal!


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## uscglly (Aug 17, 2010)

That's a cute suggestion.


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## offshorefanatic (Jan 13, 2011)

Wow. That's actually more than I anticipated getting.


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## Game-Over (Jun 9, 2010)

This is crazy.


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## Fish monger (Jul 20, 2011)

I bet we see snapper all summer long being brought in


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## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

hahahahaha, awesome.


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## Mad Mike (Dec 28, 2005)

They will probably close it completely in a few years.


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## hilton (Jan 28, 2008)

Be sure to thank Scott Hickman, Shane Cantrell, Buddy Guindon, Mike Jennings, and the other EDF-funded operatives for this year's 9 day red snapper season which is a DIRECT result of THEIR lawsuit.

These same people met last week in Austin with EDF's attorneys to plan the next lawsuit this summer - apparently 9 days of "free fishing" cannot be tolerated! They want to force us to purchase the fish we catch from them.


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## matagordamudskipper (Feb 18, 2006)

Pretty soon the only fish we will be able to keep will be hardheads


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## batsandowls (Jul 31, 2010)

I see a lot of "state snapper" in my future.


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## Bubbco (May 31, 2007)

How long will it be until texas joins the federal band wagon??...because there is also "State water Snapper" in my future.


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## saltaholic (Feb 19, 2005)

When will the recs actually have something to fight this? Talking about this and possible solutions on the Internet has done nothing so far. Recs need to hire a group of lobbyist or similiar to take this to the people that actually can fight it.


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## S-3 ranch (May 26, 2004)

*anyone want to buy a boat ?*

well that is it for me ! with work and wind i am out , 22 foot glacierbay on the cheap


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## wylbur (Jan 25, 2012)

*It's time to scream*

Just finished emails and phone calls to our elected federal officials
not sure of the outcome but after 1 1/2 hrs made me feel that I at least made my point known

:texasflaghere's a link for representatives phones and emails
you can look up the senators easily

http://www.democratichub.com/house-list.aspx?o=pv&c5=297

please don't brand me a dem or rep
this was the easiest and most concise listing of our elected that I found

Lets see if my math works
4,312,000 lbs divided by 9 days

so recs are going to harvest approx. 480,000 lbs each day for 9 days

So if each rec each day harvested a 10# each limit there would be all:texasflagmost 24,ooo 10# snapper caught

And do not forget -

This emergency rule will not affect the commercial harvest of red snapper in the reef fish fishery


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## MJP (Dec 9, 2007)

I see a lot of boats going up for sale.

Sent from my SGH-T999L using Tapatalk


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## saltaholic (Feb 19, 2005)

MJP said:


> I see a lot of boats going up for sale.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T999L using Tapatalk


Nope. Pretty sure no one keeps their boat only for snapper or they would have sold 5 years ago.

This won't last, too may angry recs that won't be silenced until something gives. Surely some political figure can realize there are tens of thousands of votes available via rec fishing community


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## mrsh978 (Apr 24, 2006)

*DA's*

...." But this emergency ruling will not affect commercial fishing quota "...... The warm rain still comes down on us !


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## saltwatersensations (Aug 30, 2004)

Fish monger said:


> I bet we see snapper all summer long being brought in


Yup. All caught in state waters


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## wylbur (Jan 25, 2012)

*Screaming some more*

I have a boat that's worth approx. 30K currently
I go to the coast - almost 200 miles
buy 100 + boat fuel
but 70 gal of truck fuel
2/3 days accommodations
eats
etc
each trip

And tell me that I do not have an economic effect on the surfside/lake Jackson community along with the state of texas

:texasflag


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## josh K (Jan 28, 2014)

more encouragement to stop at 9.29 miles from home at get your 6 snaps...ya know what I mean lol


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## saltaholic (Feb 19, 2005)

wylbur said:


> I have a boat that's worth approx. 30K currently
> I go to the coast - almost 200 miles
> buy 100 + boat fuel
> but 70 gal of truck fuel
> ...


Recs have a big impact.

Enough so that last year Texas and Louisiana filed a lawsuit to extend the season for that very reason and won. Greg Abbott who is running for governor took part in it.....


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## Jungle_Jim (Nov 16, 2007)

Pick up that can citizen


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## photofishin (Aug 7, 2009)

hilton said:


> Be sure to thank Scott Hickman, Shane Cantrell, Buddy Guindon, Mike Jennings, and the other EDF-funded operatives for this year's 9 day red snapper season which is a DIRECT result of THEIR lawsuit.
> 
> These same people met last week in Austin with EDF's attorneys to plan the next lawsuit this summer - apparently 9 days of "free fishing" cannot be tolerated! They want to force us to purchase the fish we catch from them.


 Have you or any of the well known captains here ever taken one or two of our US Senators like John Cornyn out fishing to show him how full of malarkey these regulations are? Personally I think if any one of the politicians saw the numbers of red snapper in the gulf and how much of a negative financial impact this 9 day limit causes, there'd be lawsuits galore!


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## BIG PAPPA (Apr 1, 2008)

*Thanks Wilbur*



wylbur said:


> Just finished emails and phone calls to our elected federal officials
> not sure of the outcome but after 1 1/2 hrs made me feel that I at least made my point known
> 
> :texasflaghere's a link for representatives phones and emails
> ...


Great link Wilbur and Thanks. Maybe we could get National Association of Recreational Anglers to draft up a Letter we could all copy/sign/paste in Emails to every one of the rep's on this list Wilbur posted.


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## Momma's Worry (Aug 3, 2009)

*Snapper Wars*

Great ! Outstanding !....I have been waiting for it to come to this since we lost the 6 months access,when was that ?......spineless Florida should have gone 365 in their waters ...that would have put us at Zero days and Zero bag which the sooner we get there the better .....cause that is what it's gonna take
to turn this Snapper Wars around....

i was told to use my own descression off La in contested fed water /state water 3 leagues....I know the inforcement meaning of this
I will do the same here if/when I get the chance


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## trapper67 (Mar 23, 2011)

Tried calling Robin Reichers with TPWD. He is not there and he is on the gulf council. Waiting on my state rep James White to call me back. More needs to be done on the state level.


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## hoogenda (Jul 25, 2006)

*Just boycott Katies, HEB and others...*

All - I hate that it has come to this but we need to just end any support for Katie's, HEB and others who are in on this scheme to keep recs out of the public resource. I had stopped buying from them a long time ago but please follow my lead and end buying seafood from them. I hate that I have to stop supporting them and their workers but it is what it is. But let's face it - when you are the lead plaintiff against your customers, your customers tend to walk away.

Also, stop going to restaurants that buy from them and also stop buying from HEB. I told the local manager at my HEB about this whole snapper deal and he told me that he thought it was ridiculous as well. Be vocal about it as well. Tell your friends etc....

Oh, and as for the amount of $$$ spent by rec's - I think that my snapper cost me about $90/lb. this past year...fuel, ice, insurance, gifts for the wife to let me go, etc...

Happy June fishing - unless your boat is 40 feet, the wind will keep most of us off the water....


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## waterfly (Sep 18, 2007)

For all practical purposes this Guys are banning recreational fishing in favor of commercial fisherman. They must be taking bribes as they cannot be that stupid. 
It is time for recreational fisherman to act. There must be a judge with some sense that could place some type of barriers against this nonsense.


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## Game-Over (Jun 9, 2010)

photofishin said:


> Have you or any of the well known captains here ever taken one or two of our US Senators like John Cornyn out fishing to show him how full of malarkey these regulations are? Personally I think if any one of the politicians saw the numbers of red snapper in the gulf and how much of a negative financial impact this 9 day limit causes, there'd be lawsuits galore!


I know of a few (Sen.) that are going out this summer here in TX. Will have to pass this by them.


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## donf (Aug 8, 2005)

This solves everything


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## RobATX (Apr 5, 2011)

saltaholic said:


> Nope. Pretty sure no one keeps their boat only for snapper or they would have sold 5 years ago.
> 
> This won't last, too may angry recs that won't be silenced until something gives. Surely some political figure can realize there are tens of thousands of votes available via rec fishing community


I completely agree. There are too many recreational fisherman spending way too much money for us not to have a voice. The problem is we don't have ONE voice. We DO have tens of thousands of votes though. Organizing a "union" type group or paying for a lobbyist may not be practical or feasible, but we can sure as heck disseminate information quickly and effectively on this and other forums. If there's one thing we can do well it's share information. Information about which politicians support us and which ones don't... and then get the ones who don't OUT OF OFFICE by voting accordingly.

I have been on the sidelines for years, but I am fed up and ready to speak my voice. And NO, I am not going to sell my boat and give up a hobby I love for some bureaucrat.

So who knows which representatives are on our side and truly understand the economic impact we have?


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## surfcowboy (Jun 29, 2005)

this is total bull **** and i'm not even in the country right now


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## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

really would like to see CCA put a person from each state in charge of the offshore issues. Then let them get together and work with TPWD, other states, Politicians and fishermen to find the best way to take control away from the FEDs. 

I am even going to join CCA again this year because they have finally got on our side of the snapper issue.


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## BIG PAPPA (Apr 1, 2008)

*Just sent an Invitation*

I just Invited Senator John Cornyn to a weekend Of Catch and release Snapper fishing for him and up to 3 of his friends to see first Hand how well the Snapper are thriving. I also thru in a few details.

PS: this is copied and pasted from his contact page.. see below....

Thank you for contacting Senator John Cornyn's office. We will be in touch with you shortly. If you need immediate assistance regarding an urgent or time sensitive matter you are personally experiencing with a federal agency, please call my Dallas office at (972) 239-1310.


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## trapper67 (Mar 23, 2011)

*Thanks for the #.*



BIG PAPPA said:


> I just Invited Senator John Cornyn to a weekend Of Catch and release Snapper fishing for him and up to 3 of his friends to see first Hand how well the Snapper are thriving. I also thru in a few details.
> 
> PS: this is copied and pasted from his contact page.. see below....
> 
> Thank you for contacting Senator John Cornyn's office. We will be in touch with you shortly. If you need immediate assistance regarding an urgent or time sensitive matter you are personally experiencing with a federal agency, please call my Dallas office at (972) 239-1310.


I just called and left a message.


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## josh K (Jan 28, 2014)

Why worry ?

This are the options the Fed's are offering.

1.- Stay in state waters.
2.- be an outlaw...F&R vs C&R
3.- Jump on a head boat with a RS tag program.

Your call lol


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## saltaholic (Feb 19, 2005)

BIG PAPPA said:


> I just Invited Senator John Cornyn to a weekend Of Catch and release Snapper fishing for him and up to 3 of his friends to see first Hand how well the Snapper are thriving. I also thru in a few details.
> 
> PS: this is copied and pasted from his contact page.. see below....
> 
> Thank you for contacting Senator John Cornyn's office. We will be in touch with you shortly. If you need immediate assistance regarding an urgent or time sensitive matter you are personally experiencing with a federal agency, please call my Dallas office at (972) 239-1310.


Good move

We need to get Greg Abott involved again too. He needs votes and helped get our season extended last year


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## wylbur (Jan 25, 2012)

*I'm MAD BUT WANT A SOLUTION*

:texasflagWhat if Texas passed a constitutional amendment to extend state waters out to 20 fathoms

I believe that there is some sort of basis for this

then let the feds regulate everything they choose
and no regs for the new state waters
ESP no fed reef fish in state waters - now out to 20 fathoms

I'm really not expecting this to be doable but jus to get some others as mad a hell as I am :flag:t


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## saltaholic (Feb 19, 2005)

If Texas waters went to 20 fathoms or 40 ish miles with no commercial fishing inside and a 90 day rec season I would be very happy


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## photofishin (Aug 7, 2009)

BIG PAPPA said:


> I just Invited Senator John Cornyn to a weekend Of Catch and release Snapper fishing for him and up to 3 of his friends to see first Hand how well the Snapper are thriving. I also thru in a few details.
> 
> PS: this is copied and pasted from his contact page.. see below....
> 
> Thank you for contacting Senator John Cornyn's office. We will be in touch with you shortly. If you need immediate assistance regarding an urgent or time sensitive matter you are personally experiencing with a federal agency, please call my Dallas office at (972) 239-1310.


 Let me know, I'll come out and photograph the event for free and pass the photos on to any press agencies


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## josh K (Jan 28, 2014)

I'll bring cupcakes for the event .


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## Slow Boat (Jun 12, 2011)

Captn C said:


> Cross your fingers the wind allows us to get in 2 days! LOL
> 
> The eastern gulf will most like fish all 9 days...


What he said. Try to make any of those days ones that I can get a day off work and I got a better chance with the lotto. Looks like a near shore summer.


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## txwader247 (Sep 2, 2005)

*Might be a dumb idea but...*

Why not try and reach out to some of the fishing shows and try and organize an offshore trip to get video of the "elusive" snapper. If I am not mistaken Florida received a lot of publicity and financial backing for protecting certain waters after constantly airing shows where the guides openly talked about the negative effects. I understand it is a different issue, but the principles are the same. The first step to passing a law is finding a need and step 2 is spreading awareness.


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## Miles2Fish (Dec 2, 2008)

I will bet $1,000.00 my catch total for the 9 day season will be 0.0lbs. Go "F" yourself NMFS!!!!!!!


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## Miles2Fish (Dec 2, 2008)

*Would bottom footage help?*



photofishin said:


> Let me know, I'll come out and photograph the event for free and pass the photos on to any press agencies


I represent a company that sells micro ROVs which we could use to get some video footage of just how many "endangered" red snapper are out there....

Check out this technology:

http://www.videoray.com/homepage/professional-rovs/videoray-pro-4/pro-4-overview.html

I may even get a pilot to volunteer.....let me know. The more concrete evidence the better.


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## trapper67 (Mar 23, 2011)

*Nine-day season prompts Landrieu to urge bipartisan action on Red Snapper Conservation Act*

*Shortened season underscores need to transfer fishery management to Gulf coast states, senator says*

From News Reports

1 hour ago | Mobile Reader | Print

 Photo submitted by Tommy Vidrine After NOAA Fisheries cut this year's recreational snapper season to only nine days on Wednesday, Sen. Mary Landrieu urged support for the Red Snapper Conservation Act, which would transfer authority in determining season lengths to Gulf coast states.

Todayâ€™s announcement of only a 9-day federal red snapper season starting June 1 underscores the need to transfer authority in determining season length to Gulf coast states, Sen. Mary Landrieu (D-LA) said in a news release.
â€œTodayâ€™s reckless announcement of a nine-day red snapper season severely hurts our fishermen and the Gulf economy. After Louisianaâ€™s successful efforts to collect data and manage our red snapper fisheries, itâ€™s maddening to have a federal agency tell our local fishermen that they will be unfairly subjected to the shortest red snapper season in history,â€ Landrieu said. â€œGiven the rising stocks of red snapper, a nine-day season is unthinkable and itâ€™s a stark reminder that the old system governing recreational fishing for red snapper is unquestionably broken.â€
In the same release, Coastal Conservation Association Louisiana executive director David Cresson said federal management of red snapper had hit a dead end.
â€œAs I told many senators today, the federal management of Gulf red snapper is in complete chaos,â€ Cresson said. â€œThis year, we are facing a drastically short nine-day red snapper season for the public to go fishing for this abundant and popular fish. This is unacceptable for recreational anglers and the coastal economies that depend on them.
â€œIâ€™d like to thank Senator Landrieu for introducing the Red Snapper Conservation Act which would provide great relief to the red snapper anglers and continuing to advocate on behalf of Louisiana sportsmen. We must provide alternative management tools for the Gulf Council and make sure the data used to set these seasons reflects the abundance of red snapper.â€
Landrieu and Cresson met with U.S. Sen. Mark Begich (D-AK), chairman of the Senate Subcommittee on Oceans, Atmosphere, Fisheries and Coast Guard to urge Senate action on her bill, which was introduced last year.
The Gulf of Mexico Red Snapper Conservation Act of 2013 addresses the erratic rules-making process currently in use, the release states.

​


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## Sabine Flounder Pounder (Jun 15, 2011)

hoogenda said:


> All - I hate that it has come to this but we need to just end any support for Katie's, HEB and others who are in on this scheme to keep recs out of the public resource. I had stopped buying from them a long time ago but please follow my lead and end buying seafood from them. I hate that I have to stop supporting them and their workers but it is what it is. But let's face it - when you are the lead plaintiff against your customers, your customers tend to walk away.
> 
> Also, stop going to restaurants that buy from them and also stop buying from HEB. I told the local manager at my HEB about this whole snapper deal and he told me that he thought it was ridiculous as well. Be vocal about it as well. Tell your friends etc....
> 
> ...


 My feelings 100%. I've been entertaining this idea for months now mainly on facebook. My thoughts are, if the market for RS dies so will the commercial guys. Im sry commercial guys but you're the ones that has pushed this with your greediness. I for one will not lay down and let RS become like the Alaskan Halibut, when you catch one you have to find a commercial guy and buy it from him. I support boycotting all the way.


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## X_Ross_x (Oct 4, 2013)

Here's an interesting video of a newscast about Red Snapper and the Federal Government mandates to remove old rigs from the Gulf.


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## BIG PAPPA (Apr 1, 2008)

*Awe HayYell Naw My Buddy*



saltaholic said:


> If Texas waters went to 20 fathoms or 40 ish miles with no commercial fishing inside and a 90 day rec season I would be very happy


No NO NO Sir....Do Not settle for less than 200 miles..When this gets done, it needs to be once and for all and done right the first time.


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## Sabine Flounder Pounder (Jun 15, 2011)

X2


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## cuzn dave (Nov 29, 2008)

I'm down for boycotting purchase of RS from any restaurant or market.
If it hurts their bottom line, maybe it will get their attention.
I also will not be fishing on any headboats that are in on dorking us recs out of our share. Has anybody started a petition on petition.org?


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## saltwatersensations (Aug 30, 2004)

cuzn dave said:


> I'm down for boycotting purchase of RS from any restaurant or market.
> If it hurts their bottom line, maybe it will get their attention.
> I also will not be fishing on any headboats that are in on dorking us recs out of our share. Has anybody started a petition on petition.org?


The problem with this is most of us that are concerned with this dont buy fish anyway...and to get the people who do buy fish to join the fight just wont happen as that is the only way they can get it. I dont see it getting much better. They may give a little back and then the next season take more away and give just a little more back to make everyone feel better. Really sad. I would love to buy a bigger boat but wont do it. I just cant justify the cost of an offshore rig with all of the wack regs they pull off year after year. Nor can I afford to run a boat big enough to get out there to catch others species to help justify a trip/big boat cost. Its an either go big or go home game for now, one day soon none of it will be worth it. I am not saying everyone give up but it just dont seem like anyone really cares about us rec fishermen.


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## Kingfisher10 (Feb 11, 2014)

They give us 9 days in texas, but what about in flordia?


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## tinyj (Jul 7, 2013)

*Boycott anyone?*



hoogenda said:


> All - I hate that it has come to this but we need to just end any support for Katie's, HEB and others who are in on this scheme to keep recs out of the public resource. I had stopped buying from them a long time ago but please follow my lead and end buying seafood from them. I hate that I have to stop supporting them and their workers but it is what it is. But let's face it - when you are the lead plaintiff against your customers, your customers tend to walk away.
> 
> Also, stop going to restaurants that buy from them and also stop buying from HEB. I told the local manager at my HEB about this whole snapper deal and he told me that he thought it was ridiculous as well. Be vocal about it as well. Tell your friends etc....
> 
> ...


Boycott HEB?, Katies Seafood and any other businesses party to the lawsuit that took away recreational red snapper fishing days? WHY NOT! if the Lesbian / Gay types can boycott, so can we! The only way these greedy SOB's can be made to listen is to hit them where it hurts, in their pocketbooks! Hell, I'll even volunteer to hold a sign for a couple of hours a day in front of my local HEB. It may not get any results but it'll at least make me feel a little better. You never can tell, maybe the local news media will pick up the story and run with it. Wouldn't THAT be sweet. I for one will never buy so much as a roll of toilet paper from HEB again until this red snapper management issue is set straight. They are a big player in this fiasco and if they can be made to see the error they've made by supporting this idiotic law suit via Buddy Guindon and HEB Seafood then perhaps the future will be a bit brighter for recreational fishermen. I kinda think there's more rec. fishermen buying groceries at HEB than commercial fishermen, don't you?


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## jhp3435 (Jan 8, 2013)

These people involved in the lawsuit can all go to hell. Screw you Scott Hickman with Circle H Outfitters and everyone else involved in the lawsuit. Enjoy being the most hated people in fishing. I hope you all rot in hell you sorry SOB's. Oh, and the NMFS can also take a ride with the other SOB's. It is amazing that this corruptness can go on. The ***** will hit the fan someday though.


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## photofishin (Aug 7, 2009)

I just forwarded this link to my friend Bob Price who is a reporter for Breitbart Texas. He said he'd look into it as well. He rubs elbows with a lot of politicians in the GOP.


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## saltaholic (Feb 19, 2005)

Kingfisher10 said:


> They give us 9 days in texas, but what about in flordia?


Not red snapper, mostly B-liners and Porgies with those AJ's


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## Category6 (Nov 21, 2007)

jhp3435 said:


> These people involved in the lawsuit can all go to hell. Screw you Scott Hickman with Circle H Outfitters and everyone else involved in the lawsuit. Enjoy being the most hated people in fishing. I hope you all rot in hell you sorry SOB's. Oh, and the NMFS can also take a ride with the other SOB's. It is amazing that this corruptness can go on. The ***** will hit the fan someday though.


the distinguished Mr. H was merely looking out for everyone's best interest, as he so often does in all matters. LOL


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## capthoop (Jan 13, 2007)

Kingfisher10 said:


> They give us 9 days in texas, but what about in flordia?


Those red ones look like Vermilion snapper.


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## Slightly Dangerous (May 21, 2004)

My own philosophy is to do whatever the US Government tells me to do. I will go quietly into the good night of the Feds rules, never question them, never say anything bad about them and never, ever, ever do anything that is illegal when upon the waters that are owned by the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA and presided over by the EMPLOYEES OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT OF THE USA.

After all...the states and people that make up the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT no longer count. Only the politicians and brain-dead bureaucrats count.


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## capn john (Feb 2, 2008)

The problem with boycotting and public outcry is that no one cares!!! I go around work preaching boycott and everyone laughs... They are not going to boycott HEB, that is their favorite store!! If HEB supported gun control nobody in Texas would shop there, but people think it is no big deal because they don't fish anyway. It's like someone telling me that they don't need more than 10 rounds anyway it's a bunch of bull____!!!!


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## LaserLine (May 1, 2011)

BIG PAPPA said:


> No NO NO Sir....Do Not settle for less than 200 miles..When this gets done, it needs to be once and for all and done right the first time.


So I looked up how many miles of coastline we have in Texas, 367. Going out 9 miles, thats 367 x 9 = 3303 square miles of state water. Apparently, there is no shortage of Red Snapper there because we can fish 365 days and take 4 fish. Certainly we couldn't fish our State waters if the RS were truly endangered. Federal waters out to 200 miles yields 73,400 square miles of water, less the state waters, 3303 square miles leaves 70,097 square miles of water in which we get 9 days to fish for endangered RS.

State water accounts for about 4.5% and Federal water accounts for 95.5% of the water where we could fish. How can we only have a right to fish for 9 days in over 95% of the habitat?

State water snapper out to 200 miles. I'm with you Big Pappa!!!!!


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## cadjockey (Jul 30, 2009)

Why is anybody surprised by this? While the "other side" plots, schemes, and puts their money where their mouth is the best we (the rec side) can do is pizz and moan on the internet, create online petitions, and go to meetings to speak to a deaf ear (the GC). I'll do my best to enjoy this snapper "season", but based on the current trend there won't be another one for awhile. Now let's go meathaul some tiles and grouper and post dock-shots so we can get some unneeded attention drawn to that fishery too. I swear, we are our own worst enemy sometimes.


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## tinyj (Jul 7, 2013)

*Helping them screw us*

just don't shop at HEB. I haven't read all the posts on this thread however, I think its probably fair to say that most are unhappy with the 9 day season. At last check there were 63 replies and counting. Although I have no way of knowing where you by your groceries lets just assume for the sake of discussion that all of us buy from HEB okay? And that we each spend $100 weekly. I spend considerably more but I'm trying to keep it real. Well, that adds up to $6300 right? Not much but it can add up pretty quickly. The bean counters at HEB will say that's $327,600 a year. Maybe it won't change anything but I'm happy just knowing we can at least have some effect on their bottom line if we get together on this. Call it revenge if you want.


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## donf (Aug 8, 2005)

Game on ,
Outlaw rebellion. 
The fish do NOT belong to the Feds.
Now let's hear about filet and release ideas.


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## trapper67 (Mar 23, 2011)

*yes*



LaserLine said:


> So I looked up how many miles of coastline we have in Texas, 367. Going out 9 miles, thats 367 x 9 = 3303 square miles of state water. Apparently, there is no shortage of Red Snapper there because we can fish 365 days and take 4 fish. Certainly we couldn't fish our State waters if the RS were truly endangered. Federal waters out to 200 miles yields 73,400 square miles of water, less the state waters, 3303 square miles leaves 70,097 square miles of water in which we get 9 days to fish for endangered RS.
> 
> State water accounts for about 4.5% and Federal water accounts for 95.5% of the water where we could fish. How can we only have a right to fish for 9 days in over 95% of the habitat?
> 
> State water snapper out to 200 miles. I'm with you Big Pappa!!!!!


x100


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## Category6 (Nov 21, 2007)

It's all of you outlaws overfishing the red snapper in state water and illegally taking them in federal water that have caused the 9 day season...shame on you!


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## donf (Aug 8, 2005)

I will never set foot in this a holes place of business again. Lead plaintiff in the lawsuit that took our fishing days away.
Katie's Seafood


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## capn john (Feb 2, 2008)

Does anybody know anything about this organization 
http://keepamericafishing.org/ 
They talk a good line, but I don't want to support someone that I know nothing about


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## saltwatersensations (Aug 30, 2004)

Anyone have a complete list of the businesses that were involved in screwing it up for the recs?

Go and leave a review on yelp for their business


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## josh K (Jan 28, 2014)

saltwatersensations said:


> Anyone have a complete list of the businesses that were involved in screwing it up for the recs?
> 
> Go and leave a review on yelp for their business


Cmon...dudes. The businesses that what? If there is any body to blame . Blame your incompetent representatives and that corrupted Fed government. 
No business ruined the recreational fishing , grew up guys !:spineyes:


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## saltwatersensations (Aug 30, 2004)

josh K said:


> Cmon...dudes. The businesses that what? If there is any body to blame . Blame your incompetent representatives and that corrupted Fed government.
> No business ruin the recreational fishing , grew up guys !:spineyes:


If they were involved in the lawsuit to shorten recreational fishing season then they are part 0f the issue. No? :spineyes:


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## donf (Aug 8, 2005)

josh K said:


> Cmon...dudes. The businesses that what? If there is any body to blame . Blame your incompetent representatives and that corrupted Fed government.
> No business ruined the recreational fishing , grew up guys !:spineyes:


Bullshat!
Totally wrong .
The lawsuit was brought by the commercial fisherman and seafood BUSINESSES 
Along the Gulf Coast, use the google machine dude.


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## mrsh978 (Apr 24, 2006)

*complete BS*



donf said:


> I will never set foot in this a holes place of business again. Lead plaintiff in the lawsuit that took our fishing days away.
> Katie's Seafood


 the websites main message is how they are the only people who can bring "wild snapper" (they don't know my ex gfs) to market-they go so far as to "tag" fish to create uniqueness......:cloud:


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## saltaholic (Feb 19, 2005)

So are we mad enough to take this to the next level yet? Talking won't help unless its to the right people


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## saltwatersensations (Aug 30, 2004)

saltaholic said:


> So are we mad enough to take this to the next level yet? Talking won't help unless its to the right people


What is the next level?


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## josh K (Jan 28, 2014)

Always someone to blame . 
First Obama , then Crabtree, then the head boats , then the commercial guys now the Seafood businesses ruined the recreational fishery . Really ?
Instead of whine on a forum , go and bit he'd your representatives , protest to your government . Do something instead of bicker from your couch get up and do something if you don't like it.
However all this is a Lil way to late , WE let the feds took control of the situation , I'd assume this is the price we have to pay.
I couldn't care a rat *** about 4 stupid snaps but to hear things like " boycott" HEB or call restaurants that serve snapper along with " the business that ruined the rec fishery " is way premature. 
There is more than just that ......but as usual we point the weakest link of the big chain .


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## Fish monger (Jul 20, 2011)

jhp3435 said:


> These people involved in the lawsuit can all go to hell. Screw you Scott Hickman with Circle H Outfitters and everyone else involved in the lawsuit. Enjoy being the most hated people in fishing. I hope you all rot in hell you sorry SOB's. Oh, and the NMFS can also take a ride with the other SOB's. It is amazing that this corruptness can go on. The ***** will hit the fan someday though.


You can add mike jenning of cowboy charters to that list of hated people


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## josh K (Jan 28, 2014)

saltaholic said:


> so are we mad enough to take this to the next level yet? Talking won't help unless its to the right people


exactly !!!


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## josh K (Jan 28, 2014)

Fish monger said:


> You can add mike jenning of cowboy charters to that list of hated people


This is another clear example of what I'm saying ...pointing the weakest link . Now it's all due to cowboy charters also because they are trying to make a living. What next the head boats that joined the pilot program. 
Just ridiculous.


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## saltwatersensations (Aug 30, 2004)

josh K said:


> This is another clear example of what I'm saying ...pointing the weakest link . Now it's all due to cowboy charters also because they are trying to make a living. What next the head boats that joined the pilot program.
> Just ridiculous.


Were you involved too?


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## Never easy (Mar 20, 2006)

saltwatersensations said:


> The problem with this is most of us that are concerned with this dont buy fish anyway...and to get the people who do buy fish to join the fight just wont happen as that is the only way they can get it. I dont see it getting much better. They may give a little back and then the next season take more away and give just a little more back to make everyone feel better. Really sad. I would love to buy a bigger boat but wont do it. I just cant justify the cost of an offshore rig with all of the wack regs they pull off year after year. Nor can I afford to run a boat big enough to get out there to catch others species to help justify a trip/big boat cost. Its an either go big or go home game for now, one day soon none of it will be worth it. I am not saying everyone give up but it just dont seem like anyone really cares about us rec fishermen.


You nailed it brother!


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## tinyj (Jul 7, 2013)

josh K said:


> Always someone to blame .
> First Obama , then Crabtree, then the head boats , then the commercial guys now the Seafood businesses ruined the recreational fishery . Really ?
> Instead of whine on a forum , go and bit he'd your representatives , protest to your government . Do something instead of bicker from your couch get up and do something if you don't like it.
> However all this is a Lil way to late , WE let the feds took control of the situation , I'd assume this is the price we have to pay.
> ...


 just follow the money Josh, its all about the money and seafood is big business. Sorry if you don't like us pissi'n in your sand box.


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## Fish monger (Jul 20, 2011)

josh K said:


> This is another clear example of what I'm saying ...pointing the weakest link . Now it's all due to cowboy charters also because they are trying to make a living. What next the head boats that joined the pilot program.
> Just ridiculous.


People involved with the lawsuit that caused short season.


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## jhp3435 (Jan 8, 2013)

Josh K,
We are having a grown up conversation here. Please move along.


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## hilton (Jan 28, 2008)

josh K said:


> This is another clear example of what I'm saying ...pointing the weakest link . Now it's all due to cowboy charters also because they are trying to make a living. What next the head boats that joined the pilot program.
> Just ridiculous.


Cowboy trying to make a living by going to secret EDF meetings in Wyoming 4 years ago?

Pushing as hard as he can to bring EDF's agenda to reality, lying about it in the process?

Jennings, Hickman, Cantrell, Walker, Platt, Guindon, et al will be reaping the seeds they have sown.

For a group so supposedly obsessed with "accountability", they sure don't want to be accountable for their own actions. This 9 day season is a DIRECT RESULT of their enviro-funded lawsuit.


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## jhp3435 (Jan 8, 2013)

Originally Posted by jhp3435 
These people involved in the lawsuit can all go to hell. Screw you Scott Hickman with Circle H Outfitters and everyone else involved in the lawsuit. Enjoy being the most hated people in fishing. I hope you all rot in hell you sorry SOB's. Oh, and the NMFS can also take a ride with the other SOB's. It is amazing that this corruptness can go on. The ***** will hit the fan someday though.



Fish monger said:


> You can add mike jenning of cowboy charters to that list of hated people


Thank you Sir. I will add Mike Jennings. So for the record, screw Circle H Outfitters, Cowboy Charters and Katies Seafood. Time to spread the word....


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## mr. buck (Jan 11, 2009)

I'd suggest everyone book with these commercial ops and then cancel at the last minute


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## DRILHER (Apr 4, 2010)

jhp3435 said:


> Originally Posted by jhp3435
> These people involved in the lawsuit can all go to hell. Screw you Scott Hickman with Circle H Outfitters and everyone else involved in the lawsuit. Enjoy being the most hated people in fishing. I hope you all rot in hell you sorry SOB's. Oh, and the NMFS can also take a ride with the other SOB's. It is amazing that this corruptness can go on. The ***** will hit the fan someday though.
> 
> Thank you Sir. I will add Mike Jennings. So for the record, screw Circle H Outfitters, Cowboy Charters and Katies Seafood. Time to spread the word....


And HEB


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## Kenner21 (Aug 25, 2005)

We need a list of for hire guys that arent involved in all this nonsense. I know who not to recommend but don't really know who to recommend for a six pack charter.


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## capn john (Feb 2, 2008)

saltwatersensations said:


> Anyone have a complete list of the businesses that were involved in screwing it up for the recs?
> 
> Go and leave a review on yelp for their business


There was a list a while back on a thread, but it has mysteriously disappeared..


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## josh K (Jan 28, 2014)

tinyj said:


> just follow the money Josh, its all about the money and seafood is big business. Sorry if you don't like us pissi'n in your sand box.[/QUOTE
> 
> With all due respect to you. I take my **** on a very different box , disliked you guys ? Heck no .I don't even know any of yall. However I don't have to agree or join your hate Wagon if I want to be heard.
> So that been said , it's time for you guys in disguise to take a much much bigger step than the confi couch not laptop .


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## josh K (Jan 28, 2014)

jhp3435 said:


> Josh K,
> We are having a grown up conversation here. Please move along.


A grown up conversation doesn't take place on a public forum , but I'll respect your opinon.
Keep going

Oh boy ...just noticed that I joined the red reputation Wagon lol ...dang


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## josh K (Jan 28, 2014)

hilton said:


> Cowboy trying to make a living by going to secret EDF meetings in Wyoming 4 years ago?
> 
> Pushing as hard as he can to bring EDF's agenda to reality, lying about it in the process?
> 
> ...


HA ! The cavalry. ..


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## hog (May 17, 2006)

trapper67 said:


> They just made it official........
> http://sero.nmfs.noaa.gov/fishery_bulletins/documents/pdfs/2014/fb14-034_red_snapper_er.pdf









​


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## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

Telling people on a offshore fishing message board not to talk about offshore fishing.... hahaha what a tool.


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## saltwatersensations (Aug 30, 2004)

josh K said:


> tinyj said:
> 
> 
> > just follow the money Josh, its all about the money and seafood is big business. Sorry if you don't like us pissi'n in your sand box.[/QUOTE
> ...


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## Capt'nDanG (Mar 20, 2006)

The commercial lawsuit may have taken our 40 day season and turned it into a 9 day season but what I wanna know is who are you guys blaming for turning our 6 month, 4 bag limit season, into what we have now? 

You guys are pointing the fingers in the wrong direction. I also agree that we are going to have to be confined to zero days at all before we are headed in the right direction...


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## spurgersalty (Jun 29, 2010)

saltwatersensations said:


> josh K said:
> 
> 
> > I dont know you and I dont think I like you. Why dont you go away?
> ...


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## tinyj (Jul 7, 2013)

josh K said:


> tinyj said:
> 
> 
> > just follow the money Josh, its all about the money and seafood is big business. Sorry if you don't like us pissi'n in your sand box.[/QUOTE
> ...


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## TortugaBob (Mar 15, 2014)

I would boycott HEB for less than Red Snapper.


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## samh (Oct 13, 2011)

josh K said:


> Oh boy ...just noticed that I joined the red reputation Wagon lol ...dang


Dude we knew you were slow....you been red, if you are going to join a forum join one you can contribute to in a positive way instead of belittling other members


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## josh K (Jan 28, 2014)

samh said:


> Dude we knew you were slow....you been red, if you are going to join a forum join one you can contribute to in a positive way instead of belittling other members


Ha....really .
So Ií ½í¸®í ½í¸® disagree with a bunch of yall and it turns to be negative contribution ....lol that's funny. 
No wonder we are where we are with the snaps wars, that thinking will take you places. 
Might want to check the meaning of belittling
Keep on


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## josh K (Jan 28, 2014)

Capt'nDanG said:


> The commercial lawsuit may have taken our 40 day season and turned it into a 9 day season but what I wanna know is who are you guys blaming for turning our 6 month, 4 bag limit season, into what we have now?
> 
> You guys are pointing the fingers in the wrong direction. I also agree that we are going to have to be confined to zero days at all before we are headed in the right direction...


Some good points there , however I don't think you'll get your questions been answered. GL


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## hilton (Jan 28, 2008)

Capt'nDanG said:


> The commercial lawsuit may have taken our 40 day season and turned it into a 9 day season but what I wanna know is who are you guys blaming for turning our 6 month, 4 bag limit season, into what we have now?
> 
> You guys are pointing the fingers in the wrong direction. I also agree that we are going to have to be confined to zero days at all before we are headed in the right direction...


The Environmental Defense Fund and its front groups such as;
The Charter Fisherman's Association, 
The Gulf of Mexico Reef Fish Shareholder's Alliance, 
The Gulf Fishermen's Association, 
ShareTheGlf.org, 
The Gulf Seafood Institute, 
FishForAmerica.org, etc. etc.

EDF used to brag on its websites how its Oceans Team was instrumental in "Crafting and passing" the changes to the Magnuson in 2006 - those "changes" have brought about all this mess. No doubt.


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## hoogenda (Jul 25, 2006)

*It is a larger issue but have to fight it locally...*

@Dang, Josh K and others...

I think we all agree that the snapper issue is much larger than one person or one store. And, i will agree that the magnus act, private interest groups (as listed by Hilton) and other legislation has pushed us to this point.

BUT - in this case, the federal lawsuit that was filed against me (yes, I am a rec fisherman) was done by the owner of Katies in Galveston - a store that I have been going to for years. Why did he sue me? Why not ask him that question instead of calling us out on this board for daring to boycott a store?

So for that, I am choosing to stop going there. I am also choosing to call out HEB and not buy their seafood. What is wrong with this? I cannot fight the Magnus act or the feds on this - that is the political reality.

I just want the owners of Katies and others to know that I am not happy that he is suing the very customers that have supported him for years. That's all... And, I can promise you one thing - if Katies and HEB collective sales drop, I promise you they will change their tune on snaps and our rights to fish for them. This is all about money, power and control - make no mistake.

.


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## Sabine Flounder Pounder (Jun 15, 2011)

Dont bite the hand that feeds you and dont get on the train without knowing where it's headed.


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## Sabine Flounder Pounder (Jun 15, 2011)

Btw HEB was kind enough to place contact us link on thei web page. Please be respectful when you tell them why you will no longer be shopping in their stores.


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## Capt'nDanG (Mar 20, 2006)

I don't think that the lawsuit was poised towards recreational anglers specifically but towards national marine fisheries so they they will do their jobs and manage the fishery better. It may have gotten us a shorter season this year but the goal of it was to get them to change the way the red snapper fishery is managed so that we can start rebuilding our access in some fashion or another. That's what I'm taking from it.


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## rookie06 (Oct 1, 2005)

This thread is funny. I'm supposed to boycott a grocery store because I can't keep enough of a certain type of fish? I don't give a rats arse about a red snapper! If you just want snapper, there's PLENTY in state waters - go catch it. Why spend the extra fuel and time going out 50 miles just for snapper? If I'm going to spend all the time and $$$ to go offshore, I'm certainly not in it for a 6lb snapper! Go get grouper, aj's, wahoo, ling, swords, etc. Plenty of fish to be had that are a lot more fun to catch. If you want to boycott something, quit catching and keeping the snapper! I seriously doubt a grocery store is going to care if you buy a fillet from them or not and they probably don't have a clue about what a red snapper season is!


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## josh K (Jan 28, 2014)

Finally some common sense here . It was about time

Rookie , Dang ...you've nailed it


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## chuck richey (May 22, 2004)

rookie06 said:


> This thread is funny. I'm supposed to boycott a grocery store because I can't keep enough of a certain type of fish? I don't give a rats arse about a red snapper! If you just want snapper, there's PLENTY in state waters - go catch it. Why spend the extra fuel and time going out 50 miles just for snapper? If I'm going to spend all the time and $$$ to go offshore, I'm certainly not in it for a 6lb snapper! Go get grouper, aj's, wahoo, ling, swords, etc. Plenty of fish to be had that are a lot more fun to catch. If you want to boycott something, quit catching and keeping the snapper! I seriously doubt a grocery store is going to care if you buy a fillet from them or not and they probably don't have a clue about what a red snapper season is!


I agree but what will they screw the limitup on next???? Look at AJ and trigger fish. The red snapper are just the begining.


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## saltaholic (Feb 19, 2005)

rookie06 said:


> This thread is funny. I'm supposed to boycott a grocery store because I can't keep enough of a certain type of fish? I don't give a rats arse about a red snapper! If you just want snapper, there's PLENTY in state waters - go catch it. Why spend the extra fuel and time going out 50 miles just for snapper? If I'm going to spend all the time and $$$ to go offshore, I'm certainly not in it for a 6lb snapper! Go get grouper, aj's, wahoo, ling, swords, etc. Plenty of fish to be had that are a lot more fun to catch. If you want to boycott something, quit catching and keeping the snapper! I seriously doubt a grocery store is going to care if you buy a fillet from them or not and they probably don't have a clue about what a red snapper season is!


It's not about the actual snapper. It's about the fact that a public resource is being taken from us and sold to the highest bidder. It's about the fact that commercial fisherman still get more quota each year while recs get less. It's about the fact that even though the snapper have made a huge comeback no one on the fed side acknowledges it because of $$$$.


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## saltwatersensations (Aug 30, 2004)

chuck richey said:


> I agree but what will they screw the limitup on next???? Look at AJ and trigger fish. The red snapper are just the begining.


X2 They just started.


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## rookie06 (Oct 1, 2005)

saltaholic said:


> It's not about the actual snapper. It's about the fact that a public resource is being taken from us and sold to the highest bidder. It's about the fact that commercial fisherman still get more quota each year while recs get less. It's about the fact that even though the snapper have made a huge comeback no one on the fed side acknowledges it because of $$$$.


I completely agree. I was just merely making fun of the boycotting a grocery store comments. Yes, something needs to be done, but not buying from a store is ridiculous. Like said earlier, most of us on here probably never buy any fish from the stores anyways.


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## Sabine Flounder Pounder (Jun 15, 2011)

Capt'nDanG said:


> I don't think that the lawsuit was poised towards recreational anglers specifically but towards national marine fisheries so they they will do their jobs and manage the fishery better. It may have gotten us a shorter season this year but the goal of it was to get them to change the way the red snapper fishery is managed so that we can start rebuilding our access in some fashion or another. That's what I'm taking from it.


Very true, but the reason it was filed was supposedly the rec. were exceeding their quota. The amazing part is no one has any real numbers to back that claim up mainly the NMFS. They will tell you that the system is flawed, therefore I take it personally.


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## saltaholic (Feb 19, 2005)

rookie06 said:


> I completely agree. I was just merely making fun of the boycotting a grocery store comments. Yes, something needs to be done, but not buying from a store is ridiculous. Like said earlier, most of us on here probably never buy any fish from the stores anyways.


You are correct.

My local HEB stays so busy they would never notice a handful of people missing.

All the effort put in to boycotting needs to be redirected to our elected officials for action.


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## Capt'nDanG (Mar 20, 2006)

The reason that the commercial fishermen keep getting more allocation every year is because they don't over fish their allocation by 1lb and us recreational guys are "overfishing" ours by 100's of thousands of lbs... The commercial guys have a management system that allows for their access to grow. That's what we should be fighting to get instead of just calling each other names and trying to get back at them for fishing within their allocation under their management plan that is working. What an epic thought,right?


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## rookie06 (Oct 1, 2005)

Capt'nDanG said:


> The reason that the commercial fishermen keep getting more allocation every year is because they don't over fish their allocation by 1lb and us recreational guys are "overfishing" ours by 100's of thousands of lbs... The commercial guys have a management system that allows for their access to grow. That's what we should be fighting to get instead of just calling each other names and trying to get back at them for fishing within their allocation under their management plan that is working. What an epic thought,right?


Commercial guys don't over fish? Um, ok. Lol.


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## Capt'nDanG (Mar 20, 2006)

Rookie, Are you aware of how their IFQ system works? Or are you referring to illegally harvesting fish then yes of course I'm sure that there may be some going on but that goes the same for us recs catching "state water snapper" past 9 miles.


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## Fishhog (Jan 10, 2005)

*Looking for Tom Hilton's input*

Tom,

I rarely post and mostly read what others have to say. I do however find your post about the Red Snapper issue to be informative and play a small part in determining my own position on the whole Red Snapper misallocation of resources.

Question: The most effective way to lobby?
Question: Would you support and Join a Class Action Lawsuit?
Question: Would others on this forum be willing to join?
Question: How much $ would we need to get started?

Opinion: Premise of Class Action lawsuit is to Ban Red Snapper Commercial Fishing (Does not include Party Boats or Fishing Guides) within 100 nautical miles off Texas Coast.

Opinion: Red Snapper 5 Fish Limit, Size 30" or greater.

Thanks,


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## josh K (Jan 28, 2014)

NICE....now were having a grow up conversation on a public forum . This is getting very informative for now. LOL


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## josh K (Jan 28, 2014)

Fishhog said:


> Tom,
> 
> I rarely post and mostly read what others have to say. I do however find your post about the Red Snapper issue to be informative and play a small part in determining my own position on the whole Red Snapper misallocation of resources.
> 
> ...


Fish hog , excellent points.

That's what WE all need to know , I think somebody mention taking a big step. 
if your questions are answered & the general consensus take ACTION on it , that is the STEP TO TAKE.:texasflag


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## hilton (Jan 28, 2008)

Capt'nDanG said:


> I don't think that the lawsuit was poised towards recreational anglers specifically but towards national marine fisheries so they they will do their jobs and manage the fishery better. It may have gotten us a shorter season this year but the goal of it was to get them to change the way the red snapper fishery is managed so that we can start rebuilding our access in some fashion or another. That's what I'm taking from it.


No, the lawsuit wasn't about managing the fishery better - it was about ending our "free fishing" for our Public Trust Resource. They want to force us off the water so that our only options are, if we want to go catch snapper, is to pay the IFQ shareholders for each fish we catch. If this is what you mean by rebuilding our access in some fashion or another, I say hell no!

The lawsuit was designed to do several things at once;

1. Intimidate the Council from reallocating - the lawsuit was filed by a commercial red snapper high-liner who doesn't want reallocation - supposedly is was about "accountability" but make no mistake, it was REALLY about maintaining status quo on their grip on our Public Trust Resource.

2. They knew that if the lawsuit was successful, it would severely cripple the recreational red snapper season - the so-called solution? Catch Shares; For-hire IFQs and private rec fish tags - this has been the EDF-scripted Plan for several years now.

3. If recreational IFQs come into play, then these commercial fat cats can extend their reach over into the recreational fisheries, further fattening their already bloated bank accounts at our expense.

They are looking to implement recreational IFQs even though they don't have the data to make those types of decisions - why? Because that data would show that recreational catch shares are not needed, so they are doing it backwards.

These EDF-funded operatives are already planning their next lawsuit which will claim that we overfished our 5.39 million pound quota in 9 days (and due to state non-compliance). Nine days is apparently too much - they want our access totally, 100% shut down so that they can start selling us our own fish.


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## hilton (Jan 28, 2008)

Fishhog said:


> Tom,
> 
> I rarely post and mostly read what others have to say. I do however find your post about the Red Snapper issue to be informative and play a small part in determining my own position on the whole Red Snapper misallocation of resources.
> 
> ...


Question: The most effective way to lobby? The most effective way would be for these various rec organizations (CCA, RFA, FRA, etc.) to band together and fight this side by side. I don't see that happening. We have formed a new rec organization formed to fight these specific issues by raising funds for lobbying/lawsuits; NARA http://www.freedom2fish.org/index.html

Question: Would you support and Join a Class Action Lawsuit? Yes - I think it is inevitable.

Question: Would others on this forum be willing to join? I hope so.

Question: How much $ would we need to get started? $300,000 minimum.

Opinion: Premise of Class Action lawsuit is to Ban Red Snapper Commercial Fishing (Does not include Party Boats or Fishing Guides) within 100 nautical miles off Texas Coast. I think the premise of a class action lawsuit would focus on forcing the fisheries managers to improve the data on both biomass and effort in order to make informed decisions on how to manage the fisheries. Enough of the convoluted computer modeling that has absolutely no basis in reality.

Opinion: Red Snapper 5 Fish Limit, Size 30" or greater. No to the 30" minimum - discard mortality would be through the roof.


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## Capt'nDanG (Mar 20, 2006)

Tom, we all have our opinions of the angels that are being shot around here. We all have agendas ourselves. Do I think that it is right to reallocate from the commercial side to the recreational side when there is no accountability measure in place for the recs?No I do not. What sense does that make? To give us recs a hitch in the declining season for a year? The management plan has failed us, if you add more lbs it's still going to fail us. That is not the answer. 
And for the record yes I do own charter permits and no I do not have any stake in the commercial IFQ but I do realize that it works for the commercial sector. Would it work for recs? I don't know. Theres too many of us that aren't willing to get on the same page. We are our own worst enemies.


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## josh K (Jan 28, 2014)

Capt'nDanG said:


> Tom, we all have our opinions of the angels that are being shot around here. We all have angels ourselves. Do I think that it is right to reallocate from the commercial side to the recreational side when there is no accountability measure in place for the recs?No I do not. What sense does that make? To give us recs a hitch in the declining season for a year? The management plan has failed us, if you add more lbs it's still going to fail us. That is not the answer.
> And for the record yes I do own charter permits and no I do not have any stake in the commercial IFQ but I do realize that it works for the commercial sector. Would it work for recs? I don't know. Theres too many of us that aren't willing to get on the same page. We are our own worst enemies.


Amen..highlight your last paragraph. 
"we are our own worst enemies"

Divide & conquer...The Feds are winning this battle , BIG time.

We all had fallen for the trap , get the Commercial sector to fight against the Recreational, let the Rec fight among themselves. 
What you get ? All this non sense , if "We" really what the Feds to **** their pants all fronts need to united & unanimous .

All of us , Recreational , Commercials , for hire sectors , head-boats. Pointing fingers at each-other or using the words boycotts the head boats , the for hire sector or the grocery stores that sale RS is not going to get us anywhere.

Furthermore its tearing us apart & making enemies among all of us. :texasflag

That's how I see the future of Fishing in general. I encourage YOU all to take the future generation to learn & love this awesome passion now that still there is something to fish for , before its all gone.

We , all have let this mess happen . We all , are at fault here.:help:


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## Talmbout (Apr 13, 2013)

Alleged ring leader of "Red Snapper Mafia"


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## freespool (Oct 1, 2005)

hilton said:


> Question: The most effective way to lobby? The most effective way would be for these various rec organizations (CCA, RFA, FRA, etc.) to band together and fight this side by side. I don't see that happening. We have formed a new rec organization formed to fight these specific issues by raising funds for lobbying/lawsuits; NARA http://www.freedom2fish.org/index.html
> 
> Question: Would you support and Join a Class Action Lawsuit? Yes - I think it is inevitable.
> 
> ...


 Alright just put $500 in for the class action. Y'all put your money where your mouth is and see if we can get something done. We get enough momentum going and I will add a zero to it.


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## GulfCoast1102 (Dec 30, 2013)

Capt'nDanG said:


> The reason that the commercial fishermen keep getting more allocation every year is because they don't over fish their allocation by 1lb and us recreational guys are "overfishing" ours by 100's of thousands of lbs... The commercial guys have a management system that allows for their access to grow. That's what we should be fighting to get instead of just calling each other names and trying to get back at them for fishing within their allocation under their management plan that is working. What an epic thought,right?


It blows me away that anybody can make this claim with a straight face. Yes, the commercial sector has a fish counting plan that allows them to present some bonafide data about the numbers of fish they harvest. The rec sector has no such system in place. I agree completely that nobody really knows how many red snapper the rec fisherman are harvesting. How the HELL do you make the claim that recs are overfishing when NOBODY ACTUALLY KNOWS how many fish the recs are harvesting? People are using a WAG (not even a reasonably scientific WAG) to make claims about the numbers of fish harvested by recs. This whole pizzin match just gets worse and worse.


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## jeffsfishin (Jan 27, 2008)

GulfCoast1102 said:


> It blows me away that anybody can make this claim with a straight face. Yes, the commercial sector has a fish counting plan that allows them to present some bonafide data about the numbers of fish they harvest. The rec sector has no such system in place. I agree completely that nobody really knows how many red snapper the rec fisherman are harvesting. How the HELL do you make the claim that recs are overfishing when NOBODY ACTUALLY KNOWS how many fish the recs are harvesting? People are using a WAG (not even a reasonably scientific WAG) to make claims about the numbers of fish harvested by recs. This whole pizzin match just gets worse and worse.


 You have hit the nail on the head, Thank you.


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## roundman (May 21, 2004)

Originally Posted by *Capt'nDanG*  
_The reason that the commercial fishermen keep getting more allocation every year is because they don't over fish their allocation by 1lb and us recreational guys are "overfishing" ours by 100's of thousands of lbs... The commercial guys have a management system that allows for their access to grow. That's what we should be fighting to get instead of just calling each other names and trying to get back at them for fishing within their allocation under their management plan that is working. What an epic thought,right?_



GulfCoast1102 said:


> It blows me away that anybody can make this claim with a straight face. Yes, the commercial sector has a fish counting plan that allows them to present some bonafide data about the numbers of fish they harvest. The rec sector has no such system in place. I agree completely that nobody really knows how many red snapper the rec fisherman are harvesting. How the HELL do you make the claim that recs are overfishing when NOBODY ACTUALLY KNOWS how many fish the recs are harvesting? People are using a WAG (not even a reasonably scientific WAG) to make claims about the numbers of fish harvested by recs. This whole pizzin match just gets worse and worse.


The commercial guys have a management system that allows for their access to grow.

i guess thats where the lawsuits help it grow from keeping the recs. on shore ,, management system = lobbyist and politicians in the pockets :wink:,
one of them was pushing real hard to get one elected and not sure who or if they succeeded it, ill try to find out exactly who that was as i cant remember as i wasnt buying it.


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## Capt'nDanG (Mar 20, 2006)

Gulf coast,

That is why I used to term overfishing in quotes my friend, because no one honestly knows what the recs are pulling out of the gulf.


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## Capt'nDanG (Mar 20, 2006)

Roundman, 

If I'm not mistaken I think the commercial guys have been getting increases in their tac in the last few years, not just this one. I could be wrong thoigh.


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## uscglly (Aug 17, 2010)

Texas should have shut down all commercial fishing when they stopped the commercial harvest of red fish.


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## hilton (Jan 28, 2008)

I think the Gulf states could prohibit landings of commercially-caught red snapper in their ports - that would get their attention.


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## GulfCoast1102 (Dec 30, 2013)

uscglly said:


> Texas should have shut down all commercial fishing when they stopped the commercial harvest of red fish.


Ya know, as much as this whole mess aggravates me, i don't even really have a problem with commercial fishing. There is plenty of Gulf, and plenty of fish to work with. I have a problem with BS. I have a problem with commercial fisherman being handed a free pass to rape, pillage, and plunder at the expense of recreational fisherman. I really would like to see there be a commercial fishery, but not a commercial fishery that exists at the expense of anyone who isn't a part of the commercial fishery. I very rarely eat fish in a restaurant. I can catch my own for the most part. I do occasionally like to eat seafood in a restaurant though, and i don't really want to see that disappear. I don't really want to see commercial fisherman and their families be shut out of a living. I'm just tired of seeing recreational fisherman get screwed.


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## edgewatergal (Feb 22, 2013)

More orgs are joining the conversation now. Here's an article the NMMA. ASA and other boating advocates are really pushing for a change in the M-S reauth. and how recs are managed.

http://www.tradeonlytoday.com/featu...ke-leonard-american-sportfishing-association/

Here's a link to the recreational plan.

http://www.trcp.org/assets/pdf/Visioning-Report-fnl-web.pdf

Recs need to be managed differently from the way commercials are managed.


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## tinyj (Jul 7, 2013)

*"Its the MONEY!"*

Its all about the money. Those that have it can get things done, those that don't can't fight city hall. The only way the little guy can get his point across is to take money away from those that have it. BOYCOTT. And just for the record, I don't fish for red snapper either but, I sure as heck do catch a ton of them. I will fight the theft of this publicly owned resource by commercial for profit interests in the only ways open to me. I may not make a difference but I WILL be heard.


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## GulfCoast1102 (Dec 30, 2013)

edgewatergal said:


> More orgs are joining the conversation now. Here's an article the NMMA. ASA and other boating advocates are really pushing for a change in the M-S reauth. and how recs are managed.
> 
> http://www.tradeonlytoday.com/featu...ke-leonard-american-sportfishing-association/
> 
> ...


Couple of excellent reads. Thanks for sharing.


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## hilton (Jan 28, 2008)

edgewatergal said:


> More orgs are joining the conversation now. Here's an article the NMMA. ASA and other boating advocates are really pushing for a change in the M-S reauth. and how recs are managed.
> 
> http://www.tradeonlytoday.com/featu...ke-leonard-american-sportfishing-association/
> 
> ...


Interesting reading, but, (and I may have missed it) I don't see ANY reference to the biggest threat to our (and our children's) fisheries future; Catch Shares.

For an organization that uses the name of one of our greatest Presidents, (whose conservation legacy and beliefs that our Public Trust Resources be made available to the common American), I find it appalling that there is no stance by the Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership on the privatization of our Public Trust Resources through Catch Shares / IFQs, Sector Separation.

Perhaps the reason lies in the funding sources? http://www.angling4oceans.org/partners.html

The Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership is a coalition of organizations and individual grassroots partners, working together to preserve the American tradition of hunting and fishing. TRCP developed its Marine Working Group to bring together organizations, businesses, and agencies to conserve and enhance fish and wildlife habitat for recreational angling. 
*Members of the MCWG include:*


American Fly Fishing Trade Association
American Sportfishing Association
Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies
Berkley Conservation Institute
The Billfish Foundation
Coastal Conservation Association
Coastside Fishing Club
*Environmental Defense*
Izaak Walton League of America
National Marine Manufacturers Association
Northwest Sportfishing Industry Association
Sportfishing Association of California
United Anglers of Southern California

I have often wondered why the businesses that depend on offshore fishing have sat idly on the sidelines on this frontal assault on our fisheries by the enviro.orgs/NMFS. Perhaps they have been fed a line of BS by the TRCP. Perhaps other member organizations of the TRCP need to stand up and make their voices heard on their stance on Catch Shares. Perhaps they need to put their substantial war chests towards fighting this attack on every American's access to our Public Trust Resources - *NOW!*

Here is a pic of Roosevelt's inscription at Yellowstone's north gate (one of our prized Public Trust Resources); 
_*"For the benefit and enjoyment of the People".*_

I wonder if the member organizations of the TRCP would sit idly by if the feds' started carving up Yellowstone Park and gifting it to a select few individuals/corporations for their personal profit such as is currently happening with our Gulf Public Trust Resources?


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## Shuff05 (Mar 24, 2014)

BIG PAPPA said:


> I just Invited Senator John Cornyn to a weekend Of Catch and release Snapper fishing for him and up to 3 of his friends to see first Hand how well the Snapper are thriving. I also thru in a few details.
> 
> PS: this is copied and pasted from his contact page.. see below....
> 
> Thank you for contacting Senator John Cornyn's office. We will be in touch with you shortly. If you need immediate assistance regarding an urgent or time sensitive matter you are personally experiencing with a federal agency, please call my Dallas office at (972) 239-1310.


 I don't think boycotting HEB by rec fishermen is a logical solution to this issue. I personally have never bought a RS from HEB, and I'm assuming most of you have not as well. Flooding the politicians with calls and emails of concern will be more of a direct hit.


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## Ernest (May 21, 2004)

Last I checked, HEB was one of, if not the, largest private employer in Texas. Do you guys really think the political crew in Texas from our party is going to take on HEB? In an election year, no less? Really? 

Boycott all you want, but the basic fact is that offshore rec. anglers make up a relatively small portion of the HEB shoppers. 

Plus, the grocery shopper demographic is majority female, and their hot buttons are convenience and low prices. With a busy Saturday before them, two screaming kids, and a ton of laundry waiting at home, political messages are of limited impact. Particularly when HEB has their favorite brand of shampoo or whatever. 

Further, where do you think HEB's competitors get fresh snapper?


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## saltaholic (Feb 19, 2005)

Shuff05 said:


> I don't think boycotting HEB by rec fishermen is a logical solution to this issue. I personally have never bought a RS from HEB, and I'm assuming most of you have not as well. Flooding the politicians with calls and emails of concern will be more of a direct hit.


Agree!

Greg Abbott helped get us more days last year and now he is running for texas governor...... Surely a few thousand rec fisherman votes can help!


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## Category6 (Nov 21, 2007)

"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so."
_ Thomas Jefferson_


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## Capt'nDanG (Mar 20, 2006)

If I were you guys I would just focus my efforts towards state waters for snapper. We are being penalized in the federal fishery because of our open state water season, may as well use it!

With that being said the charter for hire vessels like mine have the least amount of access to the fishery than anyone. We can only catch snapper during the 9 day season and can't participate in the state water fishery . If we could get our state waters moved out to 20-25 miles I would be among the first to take my reef permit off my boat.

So is it fair that commercial boats are given their own allocation? Maybe, maybe not. Is it fair that charter for hire boats can't participate in the state water fishery because of our federal permits? What do you think? There's two sides to every coin.


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## jeffsfishin (Jan 27, 2008)

So is it fair that commercial boats are given their own allocation? Maybe, maybe not. Is it fair that charter for hire boats can't participate in the state water fishery because of our federal permits? What do you think? There's two sides to every coin.[/QUOTE]

I believe with the owner of Circle H outfitters being tied into the lawsuit it was all about CFH getting the exact same program the commercial guys have, IFQ/VMS and 365 days a year to catch their very own quota, truly the only way to have a true number of the amount of Red Snapper caught to date, all other ways just will not work.


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## trapper67 (Mar 23, 2011)

*Interesting*

I can not take credit for this but I found it on THT and thought I would share

So this is the part that badazzles me. LA, TX and Fl going "non-complaint" is complete BS streamed to the guys that believe it from the Feds. These states are not "non-compliant" in the State waters they are allowing harvest. The current local data in these States is data from local (State) waters.

The whole thing is a complete sham. Here are the survey data collection areas that determine the TAC in LA/TX:










None of those survey points are in the 3 mile (even then 10 mile disputed) areas the current ARS catches are harvested from.

And here is MS/AL/FL:










So, essentially, the ARS that are being caught in any State waters are not being tallied in the survey for TAC so should not be part of the Rec TAC data.

Being led to believe that there is compliance or non-compliance by the Feds in State waters is an outright lie and criminal manipulation of the data being presented by NOAA/NMFS at every level. 
__________________


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## NaClH2O (May 25, 2004)

Capt'nDanG said:


> If I were you guys I would just focus my efforts towards state waters for snapper.


What about those of us that don't have offshore boats? The CFH boats can't fish for red snapper in state waters, federal waters only. I know there can be ways around it by using things like this board, but it's harder to make plans. I haven't caught a red snapper in four years (haven't even been offshore in three years), but I don't like that I'm considered one of the bad guys just because I bought a fishing license. My focus would be on correcting the flawed data that is being used, however that can be accomplished. I think that's where all of the issues are stemming from. Of course, I think the flawed data is helping the pre-determined agenda be pushed, so it may be difficult to go after.

Edit: Capt'n Dan, you can ignore my question to your regarding what I quoted from you. I responded before I read your entire post.


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## manintheboat (Jun 1, 2004)

rookie06 said:


> This thread is funny. I'm supposed to boycott a grocery store because I can't keep enough of a certain type of fish? I don't give a rats arse about a red snapper! If you just want snapper, there's PLENTY in state waters - go catch it. Why spend the extra fuel and time going out 50 miles just for snapper? If I'm going to spend all the time and $$$ to go offshore, I'm certainly not in it for a 6lb snapper! Go get grouper, aj's, wahoo, ling, swords, etc. Plenty of fish to be had that are a lot more fun to catch. If you want to boycott something, quit catching and keeping the snapper! I seriously doubt a grocery store is going to care if you buy a fillet from them or not and they probably don't have a clue about what a red snapper season is!


Trust me Rookie. They are coming for your grouper ling wahoo and just about any other species you can think of Red snapper just happens to be today's battle. The goal of the environs is to get as many of us off of the water as possible


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## roundman (May 21, 2004)

manintheboat said:


> Trust me Rookie. They are coming for your grouper ling wahoo and just about any other species you can think of Red snapper just happens to be today's battle. The goal of the environs is to get as many of us off of the water as possible


yup :work:


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## cuzn dave (Nov 29, 2008)

manintheboat said:


> Trust me Rookie. They are coming for your grouper ling wahoo and just about any other species you can think of Red snapper just happens to be today's battle. The goal of the environs is to get as many of us off of the water as possible


What he said- Red Snapper is just the catch of the day.
They are already "managing" Triggers and other reef fish and AJ.
Some kind of oversight is probably necessary but not from some pencil pushing desk jockeys with biology degrees that base their decisions on incomplete (or nonexistant) tallies and one-size-fits-all mandates.


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## Category6 (Nov 21, 2007)

manintheboat said:


> Trust me Rookie. They are coming for your grouper ling wahoo and just about any other species you can think of Red snapper just happens to be today's battle. The goal of the environs is to get as many of us off of the water as possible


I assume you didn't get that I was being sarcastic


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## graybow77 (Jun 18, 2008)

I hate to add to his **** but they already taken AJ's way durning the two months most of us fish....I could give a **** about red snapper but this whole thing really sucks...


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## onthetake (May 27, 2007)

Capt'nDanG said:


> If I were you guys I would just focus my efforts towards state waters for snapper. We are being penalized in the federal fishery because of our open state water season, may as well use it!
> 
> With that being said the charter for hire vessels like mine have the least amount of access to the fishery than anyone. We can only catch snapper during the 9 day season and can't participate in the state water fishery . If we could get our state waters moved out to 20-25 miles I would be among the first to take my reef permit off my boat.
> 
> So is it fair that commercial boats are given their own allocation? Maybe, maybe not. Is it fair that charter for hire boats can't participate in the state water fishery because of our federal permits? What do you think? There's two sides to every coin.


Yes it's unfair that the feds deny recreational fisherman in chartered boats to be able to fish Texas waters. Doesn't make any sense just like everything else the NMFS does. The charter Captains I know are great guys and just want to be able to fish like everyone else. A lot of you guys don't seem to understand that the for hire clients as well as regular fisherman who don't fish as often as some of us really like to catch and take home snapper. I know charters are quick to fill up during snapper season. That being said some of the for hire guys have definitely gone to the dark said and have chosen to work against the recreational fisherman and are trying to join the comms in the fish selling business by getting their own share of the recs snapper to catch whenever they want. Total BS to me but sure easy to see the temptation of wanting to get the government handouts the comms are gifted every year. Sure easy to make a buck when you are the only one who can catch/sell snapper.


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## Shuff05 (Mar 24, 2014)

Ernest said:


> Last I checked, HEB was one of, if not the, largest private employer in Texas. Do you guys really think the political crew in Texas from our party is going to take on HEB? In an election year, no less? Really?
> 
> Boycott all you want, but the basic fact is that offshore rec. anglers make up a relatively small portion of the HEB shoppers.
> 
> ...


Exactly my thoughts!


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## Fired Up (May 29, 2013)

If you think you will ever be able to harvest Fed snapper like the good ole days - forget it. At this point your only option is support more statewater reefing projects..

As mentioned - history has shown that the first part of June is trpically not fishable due to winds - i'm guessing 3 fishable days out of the 9.. they f^^%$D us good..


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## HTJ (May 26, 2011)

There is only one way the snapper (and other) regs can turn in our favor - Some centralized, well financed and legitimate effort puts lobbyist/lawyers in front of the appropriate lawmakers (like the comms did). Tom Hilton has a very educated voice but like the rest of us he has a job and and probably doesnt have a million or two of disposable cash for legal fees. The comms did this years ago and are now firmly in control. Making noise on 2coolfishing or the hull truth is not a wind of change. 

I remember maybe in '95 (forgive me if I'm off a year or 3)when the RS really were getting hurt and the answer then was cutting the rec bag limit to 2 fish while concurrently increasing the allowable comm catch. What we're seeing today is nothin new. Recs complain while comms hire lawyers......Hmmmm made myself think, maybe is time to beat up CCA to produce something other than stickers and posters.


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## saltaholic (Feb 19, 2005)

HTJ said:


> There is only one way the snapper (and other) regs can turn in our favor - Some centralized, well financed and legitimate effort puts lobbyist/lawyers in front of the appropriate lawmakers (like the comms did). Tom Hilton has a very educated voice but like the rest of us he has a job and and probably doesnt have a million or two of disposable cash for legal fees. The comms did this years ago and are now firmly in control. Making noise on 2coolfishing or the hull truth is not a wind of change.
> 
> I remember maybe in '95 (forgive me if I'm off a year or 3)when the RS really were getting hurt and the answer then was cutting the rec bag limit to 2 fish while concurrently increasing the allowable comm catch. What we're seeing today is nothin new. Recs complain while comms hire lawyers......Hmmmm made myself think, maybe is time to beat up CCA to produce something other than stickers and posters.


Bingo!!!!!!!!!!


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## HTJ (May 26, 2011)

CCA Mission Statement


The purpose of CCA is to advise and educate the public on conservation of marine resources. The objective of CCA is to conserve, promote, and enhance the present and future availability of those coastal resources for the benefit and enjoyment of the general public.


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## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

All of those "commercial" guys attended and sat through a nearly endless series of meetings to get where they are today. For years, and years. Sure, they paid someone with a legal degree to file a lawsuit recently, but that is a very small part of the overall picture. I was there when Gary Jarvis showed up the very first time. I know Donny and Wayne and most of the others involved and they are very determined individuals. They put the seat time in and got what they wanted. HEB is spending millions of dollars to support them. 

If you guys want to fish again, I suggest you concentrate on solving the problem that the court identified. 

***Lack of recreational accountability*** 

That's your problem, and solving that problem should be your goal.


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## ox190 (May 6, 2010)

Can someone please educate me on something? Why would a charter fishing captain like Mike Jennings want this to happen? Wouldn't this hurt him financially since people pay him to take them snapper fishing?


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## Capt'nDanG (Mar 20, 2006)

Bingo mont! Yes all of the commercial guys seem to have a more vested interest in getting things done in the fishery for some reason, oh ya, because it's their livlihood. What it all comes down to is that none of the recs care enough about the season to take off work everytime there is a gulf council meeting, not just for 1 year, But multiple years... I'm not saying any of the private recs should be punished for that but don't expect things to change in your favor if you're not willing to put in the hard work that the commmercial fishermen have done. If you truly cared enough and want something to change then sitting behind your computer all day pointing fingers and calling names is not the answer. You can **** and moan all you want and things are just going to keep happening the same way and none of us are going to be able to catch red snapper in federal waters. And I as a charter permit holder don't want to go down with the sinking ship either. So pardon me for being envious of the commercial fishery and want what they have because that's the way I pay my bills as well.


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## saltaholic (Feb 19, 2005)

Capt'nDanG said:


> Bingo mont! Yes all of the commercial guys seem to have a more vested interest in getting things done in the fishery for some reason, oh ya, because it's their livlihood. What it all comes down to is that none of the recs care enough about the season to take off work everytime there is a gulf council meeting, not just for 1 year, But multiple years... I'm not saying any of the private recs should be punished for that but don't expect things to change in your favor if you're not willing to put in the hard work that the commmercial fishermen have done. If you truly cared enough and want something to change then sitting behind your computer all day pointing fingers and calling names is not the answer. You can **** and moan all you want and things are just going to keep happening the same way and none of us are going to be able to catch red snapper in federal waters. And I as a charter permit holder don't want to go down with the sinking ship either. So pardon me for being envious of the commercial fishery and want what they have because that's the way I pay my bills as well.


 Yes very good point-

I have been asking for weeks on this board and THT what the next step is other than more complaining on the internet and no one has given me a straight answer......


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## hilton (Jan 28, 2008)

Capt. Dan - what are they telling you about supporting a for-hire IFQ plan?



Capt'nDanG said:


> Bingo mont! Yes all of the commercial guys seem to have a more vested interest in getting things done in the fishery for some reason, oh ya, because it's their livlihood. What it all comes down to is that none of the recs care enough about the season to take off work everytime there is a gulf council meeting, not just for 1 year, But multiple years... I'm not saying any of the private recs should be punished for that but don't expect things to change in your favor if you're not willing to put in the hard work that the commmercial fishermen have done. If you truly cared enough and want something to change then sitting behind your computer all day pointing fingers and calling names is not the answer. You can **** and moan all you want and things are just going to keep happening the same way and none of us are going to be able to catch red snapper in federal waters. And I as a charter permit holder don't want to go down with the sinking ship either. So pardon me for being envious of the commercial fishery and want what they have because that's the way I pay my bills as well.


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## jeffsfishin (Jan 27, 2008)

ox190 said:


> Can someone please educate me on something? Why would a charter fishing captain like Mike Jennings want this to happen? Wouldn't this hurt him financially since people pay him to take them snapper fishing?


 Guys like Hickman and Jennings want to be separated away, having 2 separate recreational catch totals, one would be for the charter for hire and the other would be those rec's that do not use a charter service.
Once separated NMFS would divide these fish between the charter for hire captians in an individual fish quota meaning they have X amount of fish and all year to catch them, just like the commercial fisherman. Will equal big money for them.


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## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

I am just going to post this one more time for clarity. The reason other groups are fishing is accountability. If private recs want to fish, *establish a system of accountability*. That's how you get to go fishin' again guys. Buddy, HEB, John, Gary, Mike, Donny and all the rest have done that for their groups. You want a piece of the pie, you have to play the game.


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## offshorefanatic (Jan 13, 2011)

Mont said:


> I am just going to post this one more time for clarity. The reason other groups are fishing is accountability. If private recs want to fish, *establish a system of accountability*. That's how you get to go fishin' again guys. Buddy, HEB, John, Gary, Mike, Donny and all the rest have done that for their groups. You want a piece of the pie, you have to play the game.


Spot on. Accountability should have been pushed years ago. But no one wanted fish tags or to be held accountable. So now that it's hit the fan it's time to implement a system. It's going to take years before we see a decent season. There is no magic wand to be waved and solve the problem with the flawed system.


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## Capt'nDanG (Mar 20, 2006)

Tom,

They have not promised me anything. I can read between the lines myself. I have attended gulf council meetings at my own expense And I know that with this management plan that we are fishing under is going to get us,zilch. So I'm up for options. And so far, a separate allocation for the charter for hire vessels is the best I've seen since trying to get the private recs on board with anything except name calling and whining is like pulling teeth. The private recs( no offense) say they care but when it comes down to it, half of the people that venture offshore have no idea there is even a difference between federal and state regulations. And no I'm not referring to you fine gentlemen here on 2cool but the average joe that just has a boat and fish's once a year. You can't build an accountable management plan with that X factor being involved. At the end of the day a very few amount of orivate recs actually care enough to do anything about it and personally if I didn't have my own charter business I would probably be doing the same thing as they are, which is nothing.


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## hilton (Jan 28, 2008)

Offshorefanatic/Mont;
I proposed a viable accountability plan to the Gulf Council/NMFS almost 4 years ago - The OFS Permit Plan.

They weren't interested then, and they aren't interested now - that is, unless there is some sort of ownership rights associated with it where peope can profit off of the sale/lease of our Public Trust Resource - our fish.

CaptDan;
A for-hire IFQ plan will result in FEWER charterboats, ESPECIALLY offshore of Texas. Are you willing to be one of the boats shut out? The CFA leaders have adamently refused to present a hypothetical situation of what would happen with Sector Separation / IFQs. There is a reason why. Why don't you ask them to give a hypothetical outcome of their plan?


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## jcopple (Jun 15, 2011)

Mont is exactly correct. What he is recommending will take organization, lawyers and lobbyists. I have not seen much talk of actually setting up an organization to protect our interests on this thread. Tom Hilton has mentioned something but I am not sure what it is. The Commercials have joined forces and until the Recreational Fishermen do the same we will not get anything more than we have now.
Just my two cents


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## Capt'nDanG (Mar 20, 2006)

Tom,

They haven't presented a viable hypothetical situation because no one honestly knows what would happen. There is no catch history for each permit. People who have been holding onto their permits for the last 5 years registered to john boats may get just as many "shares" as a guy that has been fishing every day of the season. Is that fair? I don't know if I'm educated enough to make that call.


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## offshorefanatic (Jan 13, 2011)

Hilton 
The problem is you are one man. When programs are presented that are viable, there needs to be a big show of support. Instead we all sit around and suck on our thumbs while we get it stuck to us.


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## hilton (Jan 28, 2008)

Capt'nDanG said:


> Tom,
> 
> They haven't presented a viable hypothetical situation because no one honestly knows what would happen. There is no catch history for each permit. People who have been holding onto their permits for the last 5 years registered to john boats may get just as many "shares" as a guy that has been fishing every day of the season. Is that fair? I don't know if I'm educated enough to make that call.


OK, that's right - nobody REALLY knows what will happen if/when Sector Separation / IFQs are implemented. That's EXACTLY why there needs to be a viable analysis of what could POSSIBLY happen - let's see some hypothetical scenarios. How can you support an idea when you have absolutely no clue (even hypothetical) as to the outcome? Ludicrous. Any plan worth its salt should be able to provide a projected benefit - I would be wary of any snake oil sales pitch saying that we must implement it first to see what the results are later. It's like saying: "trust me - this car will fly when you drive it off that cliff!" By the time you determine if it's going to fly or not, it's too late - you are committed.

One thing is for sure - ANY fishery in which IFQs have been implemented has resulted in a SUBSTANTIAL REDUCTION in the number of boats participating in that fishery. I see no reason why it should be any different here, especially when noting that Texas charterboats have a MUCH smaller historical piece of the pie than other states charterboats.

If you want to talk about "accountability", then according to NMFS numbers, the 12 Texas headboats are landing way more snapper than the other 58 headboats across the Gulf combined. Someone please explain to me how this is possible.

Did you know that supposedly Texas headboats account for almost 70% of all Texas red snapper (including all state water snapper)? Strange, since the other 4 states headboats % is about 7% - not 70%. The total Gulf headboat average (including Texas) has been around 14%. The numbers do not add up in any form or fashion.

This headboat EFP and charterboat IFQ EFP scam needs to be shut down via an injunction so that our attorneys can sort all of this bogus BS out. It should be interesting to see what the discovery process unveils.


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## jeffsfishin (Jan 27, 2008)

Way to much room for error in anything besides IFQ/VMS reporting, That's what it took to keep the commercials from going over quota, I mean really how can they go over when they have an IFQ and report trip by trip until they reach that amount, and the VMS is there to keep them honest.

That is what the lawsuit is going to get the CFH guys like Hickman and Jennings.


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## Capt'nDanG (Mar 20, 2006)

Tom,
I would rather support something ( not knowing all the details) that will get me SOMETHING rather than sit around supporting a management system that constantly takes away. I mean the last time I checked, something of nothing is still.... nothing...

Maybe you can answer this Tom but has anyone ever gotten an honest answer from nmfs as to what the target for the rebuilding program that we are under now is? I mean, how will we know when we actually reach the goal? Whatever it may be, and then what? I have never seen physical numbers or evidence of what will happen once we reach the target or if there even is one. Or are we just sitting around rebuilding and losing days every year when there is no actual goal in mind? And if there is a goal, is it coming from the same skewed science that we are fighting to change?


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## hilton (Jan 28, 2008)

The problems we are facing today are a DIRECT RESULT of the changes to the Magnuson in 2006 "crafted and passed" by EDF's Oceans Team. Look at the timeline and 2007 was the year that the NMFS started micromanaging our red snapper fishery, commercial IFQs were introduced, state water snapper became an issue, reductions of seasons/bag limits began in earnest, etc. etc.

The so-called "crisis" we are facing today is a manufactured crisis due to the "unaccountability" of the NMFS and their "data", with the end goal being privatization of our Public Trust Resources - nothing more, nothing less. 

These commercial guys along with the CFA guys have ALL been funded/coached by The Environmental Defense Fund, to the tune of millions of dollars thus far. EDF has exerted undue influence at all levels of the fisheries management process, even having one of their operatives appointed as head of NOAA (until she was run off).

Supporting a Plan because it is a "change" that will get you "something" is extremely risky, especially when noting the players you are dealing with here extolling the virtues of catch shares....history tells us something different.


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## Capt'nDanG (Mar 20, 2006)

Well maybe that's the problem here Tom. That everyone is afraid of change because they don't know exactly how things will turn out. And I can understand that but I am not the type of person that is scared to take a chance on something. We each are entitled to our own opinions and I respect yours and your stance.

But can you answer the question that I asked? Im not putting you under the gun but am truly curious. What is the underlying goal of the rebuilding plan and what is the plan that nmfs has to regain our access once we reach that goal? I cannot answer the question myself as I have not seen any numbers or plans to answer my question. And if there is no answer to my question then if we don't push to change something then we are really doomed as recreational fishermen.


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## hilton (Jan 28, 2008)

Capt,
I did answer your question - the "goal" is privatization of our Public Trust Resources AND reduction of the number of private/charter boats in the Gulf - IFQs/Fish Tags achieve both.


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## Capt'nDanG (Mar 20, 2006)

Tom we all know that the lies are in the statistics so to speak. You and I and everyone else can make believers out of anyone about anything if we are convincing enough. But the goal of the rebuilding process was to create a sustainable fishery, right? But when all this started and we had a 6 month long season and 4 fish bag limit, the fishery wasn't sustainable. So per say the fish population has rebounded 10 fold since then, who's going to be the judge of what type of season length and bag limit will keep the fishery sustainable if we don't truly know what a sustainable fishery is? That to me is one of the main problems as well. What exactly is a sustainable fishery when you don't know what is coming out of the water every year? To me, it seems like accountability would be the first step in measuring what a sustainable fishery would be. Now how do we get there?


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## roundman (May 21, 2004)

"Alabama fishermen are losing fishing days in federal waters due to actions taken by Florida, Louisiana and Texas. The best way to ensure that each state or region has a level playing field is to let the states manage this fishery. We are prepared to do that here in Alabama and are working toward that goal."
Southwest Alabama Congressman Rep. Bradley Byrne, agreed, saying in a statement released Wednesday afternoon that Alabama's fishermen and coastal communities are being "devastated" by the federal government's total inability to effectively regulate red snapper fishing.
"Today's development merely serves to highlight the fact that the federal regulatory framework is broken beyond repair," Byrne said in the statement. "I continue to believe that we must work to return more power to the states in order to achieve any kind of long-term, workable solution on this issue.
"In the meantime, I am working with my Gulf Coast colleagues and with my colleagues on the House Natural Resources Committee to repeal these inflexible quotas through my bill, the SNAPR Act. This fight is not over, and I won't back down in the fight to protect Alabama's coastal communities."
_Updated at 2:20 p.m. to include Rep. Byrne's statement._

_http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2014/05/gulf_recreational_red_snapper.html
_


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## hilton (Jan 28, 2008)

"But when all this started and we had a 6 month long season and 4 fish bag limit, the fishery wasn't sustainable."

Whoa - who says it wasn't sustainable? We (and the fisheries) were doing just fine with our 194 day season / 4 fish bag limit. The red snapper fishery was ALREADY on the rebound. Our fisheries management process got hijacked by The Environmental Defense Fund - plain and simple.

Dr. Bob Shipp says that there are 3.5 times as many snapper in the Alabama reefing zones than the NMFS believes is in the entire Gulf. Dr. Shipp goes on to say that we could have an 6 to 8 month long season RIGHT NOW and not even put a dent in the red snapper population.

I believe him.


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## onthetake (May 27, 2007)

The problem is not rec accountability. Anyone who has been offshore knows that the snapper population isn't overfished. The snapper can sustain substantially more harvest than we've been doing. I don't know if the 6 month 4 fish season was sustainable but I never had a problem limiting on snapper from public numbers back then. Difference was back then I actually had to fish for them. Now they are much larger on average and you swarm under the boat like chubs. I think the answer has to be a change in the management system not trying to work within the broken system.


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## Bull1 (Jul 25, 2013)

Why cant they just ask recreational fisherman how many Lbs they caught the previous year like they do dove, snipe, rail, etc when we buy our license?


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## saltwatersensations (Aug 30, 2004)

hilton said:


> "But when all this started and we had a 6 month long season and 4 fish bag limit, the fishery wasn't sustainable."
> 
> Whoa - who says it wasn't sustainable? We (and the fisheries) were doing just fine with our 194 day season / 4 fish bag limit. The red snapper fishery was ALREADY on the rebound. Our fisheries management process got hijacked by The Environmental Defense Fund - plain and simple.
> 
> ...


Pardon my ignorance on this subject... Where/how is NMFS getting their numbers if they are not counting the fish on artificial reefs and oil platforms?

Great video btw.


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## The Last Mango (Jan 31, 2010)

Recs. need to also protest shrimping regulations in Federal Waters, y'all can't even pull your little net out there, WHY are'nt y'all complaining, it's your resource?


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## My Little Big boat (Apr 24, 2012)

Because that's a messy *** job! Nobody wants all that mud on the deck


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## Capt'nDanG (Mar 20, 2006)

saltwatersensations said:


> Pardon my ignorance on this subject... Where/how is NMFS getting their numbers if they are not counting the fish on artificial reefs and oil platforms?
> 
> Great video btw.


 I think they are actually counting those fish now in their "science" But what about all the millions of lbs the government is forcing the owners of the oil rigs to kill when they take the rigs out? and we are catching too many fish, at least people get to eat em when we kill them!!!


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## kingfisherred (Aug 12, 2005)

*Great example.*



The Last Mango said:


> Recs. need to also protest shrimping regulations in Federal Waters, y'all can't even pull your little net out there, WHY are'nt y'all complaining, it's your resource?


Perfect example of why Texas needs to control the Red Snapper Fishery instead of the Federal Government, I have a Texas Gulf Shrimping license
and guess what... Anytime I am allowed to shrimp so is every other recreational fisherman in the State of Texas. Some things are different, I do have a larger catch limit and I can also drag a bigger net, but at least if a rec guy wants to drag a net at the same time in the same area he is free to do so, perfectly fair in my opinion.
The Federal government make's the rec guy set at home because of totally unverifiable data saying the recreational sector has caught to many fish, when we all know Snapper are flat over taking the Gulf, not very fair in my opinion and costing the State a lot of money.


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## kingfisherred (Aug 12, 2005)

Capt'nDanG said:


> I think they are actually counting those fish now in their "science" But what about all the millions of lbs the government is forcing the owners of the oil rigs to kill when they take the rigs out? and we are catching too many fish, at least people get to eat em when we kill them!!!


 There are millions of dollars to be made by those that get paid for tearing down the rigs, and their lobby is as strong as the commercial fishermen.


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## saltaholic (Feb 19, 2005)

kingfisherred said:


> There are millions of dollars to be made by those that get paid for tearing down the rigs, and their lobby is as strong as the commercial fishermen.


Exactly

Until recs have a powerful lobby in Washington nothing will change until the states take over this fishery


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## hilton (Jan 28, 2008)

kingfisherred said:


> There are millions of dollars to be made by those that get paid for tearing down the rigs, and their lobby is as strong as the commercial fishermen.


Those snapper out there are worth millions of dollars - our rec TAC of 5.39 million pounds x $16/pound that Hickman/Guindon are getting = *$86,240,000* that could be going into their pockets.

After all, be sensible - why would they want to let us to go out and catch them for "free"?


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## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

Regardless of what got us here, we are where we are. The court has spoken. Having been to a few family gatherings over the years, waiting until someone else has sliced the pie and taken their share usually results in a small piece being left. That's where we are at right now. There's one small slice left and that will be gone soon if nothing changes. In fact, it's likely already gone.


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## BIG PAPPA (Apr 1, 2008)

*Yuuup*

And that slice of pie looks as if someone already took the filling out of it and left nothing but the Crust..


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## happyhookercharters (Jul 31, 2006)

OK I have read the first 11 pages of this thread then jumped to the last. So pardon me if I'm restating an opinion. First off I am a charter for hire fisherman. 2nd I'm an American veteran who is disgusted at how this country has allowed special interest lobby groups to control regulations in order to fulfill there financial goals. I understand the need for a commercial sector for quality control purposes. As far as quotas there should just be one. As well as one limit across the board. If the gulf council says the fisheries can sustain two fish per person then that's all anyone should be able to keep. If you hold a commercial permit that just means you can sell your two fish! Fish in the ocean/gulf are a public resource owned by the American people. It is unconstitutional to divide or award an allotted percentage to a private enterprise! The commercial guys are most likely thinking they have one this battle and they have. Although the war will undoubtedly be one by the majority! (Recs) This was demonstrated with duck hunters a century ago. Are wild ducks allowed commercial harvest anymore? On a final note please understand that not all of us charter for hire guys are the enemy.


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## hilton (Jan 28, 2008)

happyhooker,
I agree with everything you say - I know the charter guys are not the enemy. I have been fighting FOR charter captains' interests despite what some of EDF-funded goons say.

The Texas charter fleet is going to take a big hit if a for-hire IFQ program is implemented - that is a FACT.

All the best,
Capt. Thomas J. Hilton


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## Swells (Nov 27, 2007)

hilton said:


> The Texas charter fleet is going to take a big hit if a for-hire IFQ program is implemented - that is a FACT.
> 
> All the best,
> Capt. Thomas J. Hilton


Oh gosh, a 9-day season instead of a 20-day season means 11 lost trips. On a typical 40-seat headboat at $100 a pole, that's a bunch of money right there.

11 days x 40 x $100 = $44,000

On a 6-pack charter you're looking at 11 lost fishing days at perhaps $800 a day.

11 days x $800 = $8,800

The lost economic activity on the recreational sector is hard to estimate, but I'd say it could be in the millions just in Texas when you include traillering, boat ramp fees, gasoline for the pickup and the boat, hotels, ice, bait, and the obligatory case of beer.

Now add up the headboats, 6-pack charters, and recreational red snapper fishers. A dollar here, a dollar there, and pretty soon you're talking about some very serious money.

For all that work, the commercial sector didn't gain one single pound of fish meat, or gain any days at sea, nothing. The economic impact is a big fat $0, a zero. This strikes me as especially discriminatory, punitive, and "arbitrary & capricious." The stringent quotas on recreational fishing didn't solve anything other than some very fanciful math on the part of the NMFS. This is known as a "false remedy" where a court tries to fix some problem and makes it even worse.


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## tinyj (Jul 7, 2013)

*They'll get away with it*

Well, I guess the commercial fishing interests were right all along in their assumption that they'd get away with stealing red snapper from the recreational sector. Nobody will so much as lift a finger to stop it other than crying about it. You get what you pay for in this life, both literally and figuratively. If we're not willing to pay then we can't play. We can pay to bring a lawsuit to stop this insanity or we can boycott to make the other guys pay, either way it will cost us something. Time, money or inconvenience come to mind but, apparently we are not willing to sacrifice any of these for a few measly snapper so we might as well quit b**chin about it. Elected officials go where the money is and unless you have it you can cry all you want to no avail. I said it before and I'll say it one last time, "Its all about the MONEY" I'm out.


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## saltaholic (Feb 19, 2005)

It is all about money and when the states see how much they start losing over closed fisheries it will hit the fan!


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## trapper67 (Mar 23, 2011)

TPWD is announcing a web-based reporting system next week


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## donf (Aug 8, 2005)

The Feds have sold a public resource to a private group. They stole it and sold it.
Game on , . Thank you Mr. Garmin.


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## TOM WEBER (Aug 14, 2005)

saltaholic said:


> It is all about money and when the states see how much they start losing over closed fisheries it will hit the fan!


If I remember correctly the Texas coast has seen 15Billion in decreased spending since all of this started. Texas can't fix federal waters.


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## Day0ne (Jan 14, 2006)

cuzn dave said:


> What he said- Red Snapper is just the catch of the day.
> They are already "managing" Triggers and other reef fish and AJ.
> Some kind of oversight is probably necessary but not from some pencil pushing desk jockeys with biology degrees that base their decisions on incomplete (or nonexistant) tallies and one-size-fits-all mandates.


Don't forget gag. It was included in the headboat pilot I believe


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## BIG PAPPA (Apr 1, 2008)

*Not Exactly*



donf said:


> The Feds have sold a public resource to a private group. They stole it and sold it.
> Game on , . Thank you Mr. Garmin.


They actually GAVE it away..For FREE..and then told us Rec's to go pack MUD..


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## Scott71 (May 24, 2013)

Katie's has a Facebook page. A few weeks ago they posted a link to Amendment 28 and asked their patrons to voice support. In a moment of rum fueled hostility I posted some smart *** comment that probably won't survive the weekend but it made me feel good. Interesting to see comments from Katie's customers regarding the Amendment. My take: the average seafood eating, non-fisherman feels a "Nature Conservancy / Jacques Cousteau" sense of moral high ground when they support such legislation. It's marketing, all about packaging. Commercial fisherman create direct jobs and are sustainable "wild caught" mongers. we just drink beer and catch beyond our limit. Reality, as with most marketing, is far different.

What is our marketing plan? Wander the web and post comments? At least it's **** near free.


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## josh K (Jan 28, 2014)

Day0ne said:


> Don't forget gag. It was included in the headboat pilot I believe


Are YOU also boycotting the head boats that joined the pilot program which BTW you fish on them ?

How ironic.
22 pages of lap top couching vs street protesting and getting signatures to send to our representatives. 
Forums bickering don't hurts the feds profits on this monkey businesses .


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## hilton (Jan 28, 2008)

josh K said:


> Are YOU also boycotting the head boats that joined the pilot program which BTW you fish on them ?
> 
> How ironic.
> 22 pages of lap top couching vs street protesting and getting signatures to send to our representatives.
> Forums bickering don't hurts the feds profits on this monkey businesses .


And EXACTLY what are YOU doing Josh other than stirring the pot?


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## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

hilton said:


> And EXACTLY what are YOU doing Josh other than stirring the pot?


He is Snapper Nanny............ Boldly telling others what they should or should not be saying or doing on the internet..... Snapper Nanny.....


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## Mullet Lips (Aug 7, 2012)

*Can we count the snapper harvest and prove them wrong?*

What % of offshore boats come in through the jetties? If the state of Texas really wanted to I'm guessing that they could accurately count all the snapper brought in in during this 9 day season. Game warden doesn't have to board the boat just pull up next to the boat and ask how many red snapper and average length or weight. It should be doable since the fishing boats don't all pile back in through the jetties at once. If too many boats are coming in then count the boats and do a sample. Would this be accountability?


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## saltaholic (Feb 19, 2005)

Mullet Lips said:


> What % of offshore boats come in through the jetties? If the state of Texas really wanted to I'm guessing that they could accurately count all the snapper brought in in during this 9 day season. Game warden doesn't have to board the boat just pull up next to the boat and ask how many red snapper and average length or weight. It should be doable since the fishing boats don't all pile back in through the jetties at once. If too many boats are coming in then count the boats and do a sample. Would this be accountability?


Dang good idea!!!


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## JFolm (Apr 22, 2012)

You mean people are actually going to fish during the 9 day season?


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## TOM WEBER (Aug 14, 2005)

JFolm said:


> You mean people are actually going to fish during the 9 day season?


This is the problem . Most don't go offshore til after POCO when the wind classically lays down. I fished twice in June last year. Not for snapper. And it was rough. As said before...the only way is litigation. The new CCA mission should be this. RFA is addressing it but it needs to come strong from one large group on the same page. It would help if Texas would step up from the standpoint of lost coastal tax revenue from tackle , bait , and fuel sales. I have been offshore since 89 and have never seen snapper catchability like I have the last few years. Everyone knows that if there is a shortage of fish you do not allocate all of the fishing to the commercial sector...which is what they have done. All are saying the same thing. I have not supported the CCA for years because they are not dealing with this issue with the intensity of the redfish wars of the 70s. Just my opinion. Throw in near shore rig teardowns and destruction of habitat it is easy to quit offshore if you are on a small boat budget.


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## hilton (Jan 28, 2008)

According to NOAA's own numbers, the Gulf states suffered an over *$5.6 BILLION LOSS *in sales related to recreational fishing in the Gulf region, as well as over *54,000 JOBS LOST*, in the 3 years from 2006 to 2009.

I don't have the data for the years 2010, 2011, 2012, and 2013 yet, but I can venture to guess that the losses have coninued if not increased during those years, so we are looking at a probable *$12 BILLION+ LOSS* as well as over *100,000 JOBS LOST* since the Reauthorization of Magnuson in 2006, which coincidentally introduced Catch Shares in our Gulf of Mexico as well as implemented AMs and other mechanisms to take us off the water. (Be sure to thank The Environmental Defense Fund and their front groups such as The Charter Fisherman's Association, The Gulf of Mexico Reef Fish Shareholder's Alliance, etc. etc.

If those numbers are not indicative of the need for a class action lawsuit, I don't know what is.


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## davis300 (Jun 27, 2006)

More political BS....Lord help us all.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Day0ne (Jan 14, 2006)

josh K said:


> *Are YOU also boycotting the head boats that joined the pilot program which BTW you fish on them ?*
> 
> How ironic.
> 22 pages of lap top couching vs street protesting and getting signatures to send to our representatives.
> Forums bickering don't hurts the feds profits on this monkey businesses .


I have no earthly idea what you were trying to ask or say. Want to try again?


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## elgatogus (Oct 27, 2010)

Day0ne said:


> I have no earthly idea what you were trying to ask or say. Want to try again?


:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:


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## saltwatersensations (Aug 30, 2004)

josh K said:


> Are YOU also boycotting the head boats that joined the pilot program which BTW you fish on them ?
> 
> How ironic.
> 22 pages of lap top couching vs street protesting and getting signatures to send to our representatives.
> Forums bickering don't hurts the feds profits on this monkey businesses .


Go Away :an6:


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## DRILHER (Apr 4, 2010)

Originally Posted by *josh K*  
_Are YOU also boycotting the head boats that joined the pilot program which BTW you fish on them ?

How ironic.
22 pages of lap top couching vs street protesting and getting signatures to send to our representatives. 
Forums bickering don't hurts the feds profits on this monkey businesses ._


saltwatersensations said:


> Go Away :an6:


X2 on the troll going away


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## Shuff05 (Mar 24, 2014)

Jolly Roger said:


> He is Snapper Nanny............ Boldly telling others what they should or should not be saying or doing on the internet..... Snapper Nanny.....


:bounce: Rolling over laughing!! lol snapper nanny


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## lbuoys (Apr 9, 2008)

Trying to think about what can be done to get more visibility to this issue. What do folks think about having some type of gathering of rec and charter fisherman in Freeport - maybe Surfside Marina could host - or something like that. Maybe do it June 1st! We could invite TV / media types and maybe some politicians - sure we could get Perry and Cruz to stop by . I am getting tired of reading and ready to do something. Open to thoughts. Maybe Tom and others could be speakers to give folks an overview of current status and major players.


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