# What is your personal rule on lost ducks?



## OMAS (Jun 20, 2012)

I had a conversation a young duck hunter at Academy last night who told me that he and his friend shot their first 2 man limit of ducks on Tuesday. However, they actually had shot 20, but had lost 8 due the thick grass around the pond. I have always used the rule (Dad's rule) that I allow myself only 1 lost duck (or bird) per trip, after that any lost duck counts against my limit. How do you do it?


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## daddyeaux (Nov 18, 2007)

I try my best to find a lost bird.


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## kweber (Sep 20, 2005)

per TPWD, lost birds counts toward bag...
most don't know that...
and hard to enforce.


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## goatchze (Aug 1, 2006)




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## OMAS (Jun 20, 2012)

Yes, My dog always do our best to find all my downed ducks. I am also probably over selective on my shots, I usually don' shoot anything that wont fall in the water, a holdover from the days before I had a dog.


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## Fishingmatt (Aug 16, 2012)

losing birds is going to happen... 8 is a little bit ridiculous


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## spurgersalty (Jun 29, 2010)

kweber said:


> per TPWD, lost birds counts toward bag...
> most don't know that...
> and hard to enforce.


You sure about that?


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## BigBuck (Mar 2, 2005)

Kweber is right. Doves too.
BB


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## daddyeaux (Nov 18, 2007)

I would have to question that myself. You are suppose to make every effort to find a downed bird.
The reason I question that is, once down in the Valley dove hunting a game warden came up to check my bag. I had just shot my last bird to fill my limit.
After the warden checked my bag, all was good, he told me I had one down by the road. That one would have put me over the limit if that was the case. Warden said have a good day and was gone.


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## Icetrey (Oct 8, 2007)

I make every possible effort to find a bird and not shoot another until I find it. If I reasonably don't think I can find it, I'll continue to shoot. I hate to waste resources


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## kweber (Sep 20, 2005)

lost bird = downed bird= bagged bird... all part of the bag...
SO, just how ethical are most'a yall?
hmmm?


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## daddyeaux (Nov 18, 2007)

And this is in writing somewhere??


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## spurgersalty (Jun 29, 2010)

kweber said:


> lost bird = downed bird= bagged bird... all part of the bag...
> SO, just how ethical are most'a yall?
> hmmm?


Yes, according to some peoples ethics, but, not in the eyes of the law.


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## kweber (Sep 20, 2005)

knock a bird down... counts towards bag...
just because you couldn't find it doesn't mean it don't count.
not being a wise ace... just how the laws are written....
of course nobody follows that and GW has to be right there to document the lost bird.. but YUP, lost counts towards the bag.


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## spurgersalty (Jun 29, 2010)

kweber said:


> knock a bird down... counts towards bag...
> just because you couldn't find it doesn't mean it don't count.
> not being a wise ace... just how the laws are written....
> of course nobody follows that and GW has to be right there to document the lost bird.. but YUP, lost counts towards the bag.


It appears TPWD disagrees.." Wanton Waste

A reasonable effort must be made to retrieve any killed or wounded birds and any wounded bird retrieved must be immediately killed and made a part of the bag limit. After retention, the birds must be kept in an edible condition."


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## tro-trout (Apr 5, 2007)

When I kill six I'm done will search for a long time for downed birds but if I don't find it I still count it. To me ducks don't taste that good to worry about so I'm not to upset if I don't bring home a limit. But unless killing does bother so whatever gets killed should be put to use.


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## kweber (Sep 20, 2005)

doesn't have anything to do w/limits...
wing a specklebelly and it glides 1/2 mi off.. still your bird.
wanton waste is shooting birds and making NO effort to retrieve them...
had some dove "hunters" shoot bunches at our place many yrs ago and they never walked out to get their birds...
GW was called and fines were issued...

those guys were shooting doves and not even walking out to get them...


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## rubberducky (Mar 19, 2010)

I haven't seen anything about this in the books. But I guess you guys saying it's ethics also cut that tag when you shoot a deer and can't find it? 
James


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## wet dreams (May 21, 2004)

Pretty sure its always counted towards your limit, I have seen it wrote....somewhere


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## kweber (Sep 20, 2005)

OK, shoot twelve and bring back the six near ones... 
or cripple six Gadwalls and your still allowed six more?
shoot 20 whitewings but you only found 15?
how hard is this to understand?
the regs allow X number... it aint the States/Feds fault you cant/don't want to find them...
daily bag is harvested numbers/species...
downed birds.. found or not.


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## spurgersalty (Jun 29, 2010)

Show us the regulation you speak of. The c&p I provided covers it.


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## kweber (Sep 20, 2005)

NO. 
YOU'RE RIGHT...:headknock
SHOOT SEVEN, PICK UP SIX ... ALL GOOD...
I'm done for tonight


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## droebuck (Oct 17, 2011)

Losing 8 and continuing to shoot is a disrespect for the resource in my opinion.


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## rubberducky (Mar 19, 2010)

droebuck said:


> Losing 8 and continuing to shoot is a disrespect for the resource in my opinion.


I agree that seeing 8 go down and killing a 2 man limit is BS in my opinion. But like I said. If I was to shoot a deer and looked and can not find it I would t cut that tag but I wouldn't shoot 8 and keep going.
James


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## oOslikOo (Jul 13, 2010)

kweber said:


> OK, shoot twelve and bring back the six near ones...
> or cripple six Gadwalls and your still allowed six more?
> shoot 20 whitewings but you only found 15?
> how hard is this to understand?
> ...


Dude the bird may live. I've chased cripples/downed birds only to have them fly off looking like nothin happen. Last year I shot a wigeon....he hit the water and for a little bit could barely keep his head up. Left my gun to go fetch him. Sucker flew out like I flushed him. I make every effort to find a bird and I count em but I understand those who may not. I've had birds I swear I missed (not flinch) fly out like nothin happened only to fall stone dead and I have to go get the bird 1/4 to 1/2 mile away. Some places you can see that far, others you can't. Got a timber hole where if said occurs, you'll never see the bird fall. When they make the bags limits they compensate for lost birds, It's just part of the game. 8 is ridiculous though.


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## daddyeaux (Nov 18, 2007)

Ethics aside, I find nothing in writing in any of the TPWD regs that a lost bird counts against your bag limit. If that was the case there would be a Warden behind every bush and blind, and be the easiest ticket to write.
Kweber you stated it did. Just trying to find the facts.


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## Txsdukhntr (Feb 25, 2010)

Me,I'll look for them multiple times .I count that as 1 for my limit .Because, if later in the hunt you find it you will be over your bag limit.You need to Think about how far that duck has traveled and have some Respect for them. just don't shoot at them and treat them like clay Pigeons. That's Unethical to me..


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## Bayou_Bowhunter (Feb 3, 2012)

I allow myself no more than 5 crippled lost divers or 3 crippled puddle ducks in addition to my limit. The math gets a little tricky when I cripple some of both so I'll spare you the calculus lesson.

Coyotes and ***** gotta eat too bro!!!


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## Jacinto (Sep 14, 2013)

If I down a bird I'll give it a "reasonable" search. If I cannot find it I'll usually go back to hunting, then go back and look for the bird when I decide to end the hunt or when I'm 1 short of my limit. It's happened at least a couple of times where I'll be one short of my limit, go back for a second look, and find the bird. Certainly I would never look to any government agency to define my ethics or morality. Ever. They wouldn't even enter into the debate.


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## Main Frame 8 (Mar 16, 2007)

rubberducky said:


> I haven't seen anything about this in the books. But I guess you guys saying it's ethics also cut that tag when you shoot a deer and can't find it?
> James


Game, set, end of thread.

LOL.


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## Law Dog (Jul 27, 2010)

I make every possible effort to find the bird.


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## Category6 (Nov 21, 2007)

What if you think you hit a goose, and it sort of falls but mostly lands a few hundred yards away in deep mud. Every time you get within 75-100 yards it takes off and flies another 200-300 yards and lands. Pretty soon you're 3/4 mile away from the spread, gumbo mud is sticking to your boots at around 15 pounds per leg, and you are about to have a heart attack and need to be airlifted out of the field, when it dawns on you that he was just messing with you and trying to lure you to your death. Geese are smart, they'll do that. Does the goose have to count you as part of his bag if the EMT's load you up and fly off with you, and he's pretty sure you were going to die, BUT not 100% sure? If you die then yeah he's gotta count you, but a lot of gray area if he can't confirm death.


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## Totally Tuna (Apr 13, 2006)

rubberducky said:


> I haven't seen anything about this in the books. But I guess you guys saying it's ethics also cut that tag when you shoot a deer and can't find it?
> James


James, it is not written in the law, but I would say yes. Just my opinion and I'm not anyone else's police, but for me that is the way I police myself.

Many leases have it as part of their rules too. You shoot at a deer and it is yours. I doubt that just because someone could not find a deer that it didn't die soon after being shot. Other than extreme long range shooting I don't see how someone could miss a deer's vitals. It's like a 7-9" circle. Even at 200 yards most people could put 5 shots inside an area half that size. And yes I have hunted deer since I was 12. I just don't think people miss at 100-150 yard shots on deer. Again it is my opinion and I certainly don't expect everyone to hold the same opinion. Most counties bag limit would allow you to shoot another deer or two if you were unable to retrieve a downed deer, so it shouldn't stop most people from hunting.

I also agree with Kweber on the game birds. You down it, you own it. It counts to your bag. Not the law maybe, but just the right thing to do IMO.


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## TeamJefe (Mar 20, 2007)

Category5 said:


> What if you think you hit a goose, and it sort of falls but mostly lands a few hundred yards away in deep mud. Every time you get within 75-100 yards it takes off and flies another 200-300 yards and lands. Pretty soon you're 3/4 mile away from the spread, gumbo mud is sticking to your boots at around 15 pounds per leg, and you are about to have a heart attack and need to be airlifted out of the field, when it dawns on you that he was just messing with you and trying to lure you to your death. Geese are smart, they'll do that. Does the goose have to count you as part of his bag if the EMT's load you up and fly off with you, and he's pretty sure you were going to die, BUT not 100% sure? If you die then yeah he's gotta count you, but a lot of gray area if he can't confirm death.


Then you shoot one less than your limit. Its simple.

Am I the only one who gives a **** about the rules around here?


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## rubberducky (Mar 19, 2010)

TeamJefe said:


> Then you shoot one less than your limit. Its simple.
> 
> Am I the only one who gives a **** about the rules around here?


Show us where it is a rule. 
I have never seen this in any of the publications


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## marksemmler (Jul 16, 2004)

I don't know how many times I have shot a redhead dead on the water, but when I get close to it it dives and never comes back up within site..... sorry but that is not going to my limit.


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## Barbarian (Feb 12, 2009)

Unless it is a new law, then no it does not legally count against your bag. It is up to you if you want to consider it as part of 'your' bag limit. We used to laugh at the guys that said we killed our 18, but lost 3 so only hav 15. In our world, then you didn't limit out. We were the opposite - you can't claim it unless you have it in your possession. 

Now with that said, we went well above and beyond any reasonable effort to find any downed birds. To the point of near exhaustion walking through the marsh and missing out on the next 12 flocks that always seem to land in the decoys while you are out looking. Our effort to find the downed bird was more than enough to kill a replacement with a clear conscious. Too many times to count have I seen a downed bird fly off. Actually had my dog on one hunt take off running behind the blind in the marsh. He came back 20 minutes later with a 'live' widgeon. We hadn't fired a shot. Wasn't sure whether to be happy about that or not because we had to count it. 

I also have never not one time heard of any story where a game warden checking birds asked anybody how many they lost today. The last time I checked the rule read something like "you must make every reasonable effort to find any and all lost birds. If not it is considered wanton waste". This is the same rule you would get busted for if you just went out and killed a limit and then chunked them in the ditch on the way home and got caught. 

It sucks, but some days and some locations are just hard.


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## wet dreams (May 21, 2004)

When hunting at JD Murphries WMA they used to ask and assume they still do how many was crippled or lost, this is what makes me remember it being counted towards your limit. Was YEARS back when I read it maybe early 80's, prob been changed IDK. One thing I know did change during that time was proving you shot birds in a certain order to be legal under the point system. I have seen ducks with thermometer shoved up their rectums several times but I guess someone took them to court on it as they should have....


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## Csafisher (Nov 16, 2010)

From tpwd:

Wanton Waste

A reasonable effort must be made to retrieve any killed or wounded birds and any wounded bird retrieved must be immediately killed and made a part of the bag limit. After retention, the birds must be kept in an edible condition.


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## Barbarian (Feb 12, 2009)

wet dreams said:


> When hunting at JD Murphries WMA they used to ask and assume they still do how many was crippled or lost, this is what makes me remember it being counted towards your limit. Was YEARS back when I read it maybe early 80's, prob been changed IDK. One thing I know did change during that time was proving you shot birds in a certain order to be legal under the point system. I have seen ducks with thermometer shoved up their rectums several times but I guess someone took them to court on it as they should have....


There is a possibility that certain WMA's could have regulations above and beyond the norm.


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## sureshot840 (Mar 3, 2009)

I always attempt to find my crippled birds, spoonbills are the hardest though - they always seem to elude me.

:wink::wink:


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## Rack Ranch (May 25, 2004)

I would keep in mind the ''young man" part. He is probably stretching the truth a bunch. Kinda hard to loose 8 ducks around a pond. That being said, if one sails way out and swims away, I usaully count it as a lose.


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## 98aggie77566 (Jul 7, 2009)

rubberducky said:


> I haven't seen anything about this in the books. But I guess you guys saying it's ethics also cut that tag when you shoot a deer and can't find it?
> James





Main Frame 8 said:


> Game, set, end of thread.
> 
> LOL.


Brings all of these ethics into a different perspective doesn't it?

Particularly for those ethical hunters in a one buck county?


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## Spec-Rig.006 (Nov 2, 2007)

As per all previous comments that said the same thing - doesn't matter what YOU'RE rule is ... the boys in Blue (and Gray) say you can kill 6 in aggregate, per person. That includes the ones you knock down and cant find.

** drops mic **


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## 98aggie77566 (Jul 7, 2009)

Spec-Rig.006 said:


> As per all previous comments that said the same thing - doesn't matter what YOU'RE rule is ... the boys in Blue (and Gray) say you can kill 6 in aggregate, per person. That includes the ones you knock down and cant find.
> 
> ** drops mic **


** Picking up the mic 

Copy/paste from TPWD website:
*Wanton Waste*

A reasonable effort must be made to retrieve any killed or wounded birds and any wounded bird retrieved must be immediately killed and made a part of the bag limit. After retention, the birds must be kept in an edible condition.

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/regulations/outdoor-annual/hunting/waterfowl-regulations/general-rules


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## daddyeaux (Nov 18, 2007)

Nothing in the regs says you must count lost ones, I don't care what color they are wearing.


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## spurgersalty (Jun 29, 2010)

98aggie77566 said:


> ** Picking up the mic
> 
> Copy/paste from TPWD website:
> *Wanton Waste*
> ...


Third time its been posted, and they still don't understand it:headknock:


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## Barbarian (Feb 12, 2009)

daddyeaux said:


> Nothing in the regs says you must count lost ones, I don't care what color they are wearing.


Correct!!

I used to have a blind on a pond that had some otters hanging around. On more than one occasion, an otter would beat me to the bird. I guess I was supposed to count that. Your only legal obligation is to try your best to recover the downed bird. If you try your best, but are unsuccessful in the recovery, the law says you can shoot another one if your conscious will allow.


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## daddyeaux (Nov 18, 2007)

Evidently reading and comprehension is not a strong point for some........


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## camarokid (Dec 27, 2011)

To respond to the actual topic of this post: We bust our butts to find every last bird. I was taught that if you are going to harvest an animal (duck, dove, goose, deer, etc.) it is your responsibility to find it, clean it and make sure that it is eaten. Again, we make every effort to eliminate waste and hunt under the rules that TPWD sets. 

A question to all the Boy Scouts out there that have never lost a duck before or count lost cripples or ducks that you shot and that eventually flown away or just birds that you never found, as apart of their daily bag limit: If by some strange coincidence you arrive over your daily bag limit for ducks, do you call a GW and report it?


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## 98aggie77566 (Jul 7, 2009)

spurgersalty said:


> Third time its been posted, and they still don't understand it:headknock:


Yea....but I posted the link


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## duckmania (Jun 3, 2014)

I hunt with a dog which helps quite a bit. Rule of thumb for me, divers need to be really dead before I send the pup. I ll spend quite a bit of time looking for a lost duck, if I don't find it, it still counts, just the way I was taught. I usually have a couple of BB loads in my jacket for that redhead that is trying to submarine on me.


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## goatchze (Aug 1, 2006)

I guess it boils down to your definition of "taken". It has nothing to do with wanton waste. You can post the paragraph about wanton waste 10 times, it is still irrelevant.

*Daily Bag Limit:*
The maximum number of a game species (quail, pheasant, squirrel, etc.) that may be lawfully *taken* by a hunter during the legal shooting hours in one day.

If you interpret "taken" as "shot and recovered", then you don't count lost birds.

If you interpret "taken" as "shot", then you do.

How does the GW interpret it? While the regs define _bag limit_, they don't define _taken_.


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## duckmania (Jun 3, 2014)

Fish and Game departments set limits based upon populations, not the ability or lack thereof for hunters finding all their birds. If a bird goes down, chances are very good it will die. Dead is dead, on a strap or a coyotes dinner. It would be interesting to see if lost birds go into calculation for number of birds projected to be harvested, I am betting it is not. Really more a question of ethics than interpreting the law. If you hunt your going to loose a bird every now and then, just part of it.


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## goatchze (Aug 1, 2006)

duckmania said:


> Fish and Game departments set limits based upon populations, not the ability or lack thereof for hunters finding all their birds. If a bird goes down, chances are very good it will die. Dead is dead, on a strap or a coyotes dinner. It would be interesting to see if lost birds go into calculation for number of birds projected to be harvested, I am betting it is not. Really more a question of ethics than interpreting the law. If you hunt your going to loose a bird every now and then, just part of it.


I'm pretty sure they do.


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## duckmania (Jun 3, 2014)

Maybe so. I've never researched it.


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## daddyeaux (Nov 18, 2007)

lol........I think we have beat this horse pretty good.


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## duckmania (Jun 3, 2014)

agree.


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## 98aggie77566 (Jul 7, 2009)

duckmania said:


> Fish and Game departments set limits based upon populations, not the ability or lack thereof for hunters finding all their birds. If a bird goes down, chances are very good it will die. Dead is dead, on a strap or a coyotes dinner. It would be interesting to see if lost birds go into calculation for number of birds projected to be harvested, I am betting it is not. Really more a question of ethics than interpreting the law. If you hunt your going to loose a bird every now and then, just part of it.


OK...I'll stir the pot a little more.

Just how far does a bird have to fly before it is no longer considered "taken".

How many birds fly off with a single pellet in their gut only to die that afternoon?

Many times I have shot at a bird and seen a puff of feathers only to see it disappear with full flight capacity.

Is that a wounded bird?


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## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

> ** Picking up the mic
> 
> Copy/paste from TPWD website:
> *Wanton Waste*
> ...


Game Set and Match...geeze some of you act like you've never read the rules before.

Lost bird is a lost bird. It doesn't count towards your limit anymore than a lost trout or red would count to your limit.

TH


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