# Single foot guide



## PTH (Aug 22, 2006)

I read something somewhere about using a special wrap for a single foot guide that is recommended to keep the guides from coming off. Is there such a thing? Can someone elaborate please?


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## Goags (May 28, 2004)

Here you go: http://www.rodbuilding.org/library/forhan.html


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## Putter Parpart (Feb 10, 2007)

*There are blocking wraps and locking wraps. The popular name for the locking wrap is a Forhan wrap. There's a short segment on how to do this one on .org's LIBRARY feature.*

*A blocking wrap just has several wraps of thread wrapped first, then the guide is placed and the guide wrap is wrapped up to this blocking wrap.*

*I use neither, personally. I haven't had any problems with the guides getting pulled out on me. After grinding my guide feet, I bring back in that little "arrowhead" shaped feature that the manufacturer put in there in the first place to help keep the guide from being pulled out of the wrap. A little practice and it's pretty easy to do.*

*The Forhan wrap seems to be the common way most builders use, though.*


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## Steve Gardner (Mar 23, 2008)

I personally have seen many manufacturers rods have the guides fall out. My tournament partner had two pop out at one time on a Steez rod, when he set the hook on an average size bass.



 He asked me if I would fix it. Told him know for what that piece of junk cost, to send it back.



I use the locking wrap; Works great, looks good, simple to do once you practise a little. I've had some of my rods come back with the guides snapped off, but never one pulled out


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## Steve Gardner (Mar 23, 2008)

Mr. Parpart;

I noticed when I read you post last night that you had incorrectly stated how to do a blocking wrap. I was not going to point it out, but after thinking about it for a while I thought I should, so as not to create confusion or misguide some of the newer less experienced builders.

The blocking wrap is not done separately before the guide and rest of wrap are applied.

But as you wrap up the guide foot to the point to where the leg turns up to the guide's eye. You simply wrap past the leg two, three (or more if you choose) wraps around the blank and tie off your wrap. This creates a little raised spot (bridge) behind the guide that after the epoxy is applied helps to prevent guides from being pulled out. 

Blocking or locking wraps may not be necessary on all rods, but I personally would not build a bass rod that will be used in a boat with out them.

If they were done the way you had stated I most likely would not use them either because of the extra work and aggravation involved.

. 

But Rich Forhan's locking wrap offers the most secured wrap of all on single foot guides


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## Goags (May 28, 2004)

Steve, I'll mention this...I spent most of my youth in S. Fla, where spinning gear was the norm. While I wasn't building rods back then, I did replace/wrap guides, etc. Some folks first did a separate trim wrap in front of the single foot, to kind of block it in. This was WAY before Forhan developed his technique, which combines locking and blocking, and is faster and more secure. Jerry


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## Putter Parpart (Feb 10, 2007)

*Mr. Gardner:*



*I see you and Bill Stevens are conversing on the side... he PM'ed me earlier today with those similar words and more.*





*The way that I do a blocking wrap is how I explained above. I should have said that (underlined) in my first post, but didn't. Sorry about that. I sometimes forget to add those special words in so that no one misconstrues what I'm saying.*



*I agree that you have stated how many builders do a blocking wrap. And if you don't do it the way that I do it, that's OK with me. But don't say that "this is the way to do a blocking wrap", please. By Bill and yourself stating that I have incorrectly stated how a blocking wrap is done, it infers your preferred method is the "only" way to do one. And it isn't, of course. There isn't a "right" or "only" way to do this as there are many ways to do all things in rod building. *



*As long as there are those threads there to block or attempt to block the guide from being pulled out, the mission has been accomplished, hasn't it? *



*There's more than one way to skin a cat. I simply find it easier to wrap the block without the guide in my way is all. Because I switched to doing it this way, it now seems funny to me that a person would want the aggravation of having the guide in the way of the wrapping thread when doing it, now. LOL!! It also allows me to place different colored threads for the block.*



*Have you tried it both of these ways? I have. To me, it's easier, faster, and less aggravating doing it before placing the guides on the rod for wrapping. That's why I've done it this way. It's a choice that we each have.*



*Back to the forum:*



*When reading my posts, please remember that I build rods for walleye fishermen predominantly. And they get pretty tough on equipment, also. Tournaments get people doing things in haphazard fashion and they deviate from their normal ways of doing things. Equipment, such as a rod, tends to get brutalized at times.*



*I have had to re-wrap a guide on one of my customs that pulled out once in 27 years of building rods (and it was wrapped with nylon thread and CP was used on that wrap). I don't think I'll switch my building style to a locking wrap. It's not necessary for what I do in my opinion. Each builder has to make that decision for themselves and what they're doing. That's all that I'm saying here.*



*And back to Mr. Gardner again: *



Steve Gardner said: "If they were done the way you had stated I most likely would not use them either because of the extra work and aggravation involved." 

*And that's why I've done the blocking wrap the way that I do; because the other way seems to be extra work and aggravation to me. Hopefully we can just agree to disagree on this? It's not really worth arguing about. The end result is exactly the same. VOILA!! A blocking wrap!! *

*If your post above had said that some or even most people who do the blocking wrap do it his way, I sure wouldn't have even responded. But when Bill and you both told me that I'm doing it the wrong way or incorrectly... I couldn't "not" respond to it.*

*And again, I apologize for not adding those special words to my first post saying that - "The way I do a blocking wrap is&#8230;" *


* ~ SIGH~ *


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## Terrynj (Jun 27, 2006)

Steve Gardner said:


> I personally have seen many manufacturers rods have the guides fall out. My tournament partner had two pop out at one time on a Steez rod, when he set the hook on an average size bass.
> 
> He asked me if I would fix it. Told him *know* for what that piece of junk cost, to send it back.




At least Randy knows how to use NO instead of KNOW.

We have a friendly board here that we all enjoy. Randy has been wonderful on here and we enjoy his contributions. You too have been welcomed on here and I know you also have much to contribute.

I don't frequent the other site much anymore because every time I posted there I was treated rudely or should I say, with a condescending attitude. We would like to keep that air off of our board. Like I said, we have enjoyed your contributions here so far, but we would like to please keep the "tude" on the other board.


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## ellisredfish (Jul 5, 2005)

I agree with you Terry and Putter.


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## d4rdbuilder (Jan 19, 2007)

Amen guys, lets keep things here the way the've always been. A forum to share and enjoy our craft. No one here gives a hoot about politics or he said she said and who is anyone to say someone else is doing something the wrong way when it's worked for them for years. 

Lets face it, we all try and guide a newcomer based on his/her questions. Regardless of the replies and help recieved, they will end up, as we all have, doing it the way that works best for them. 

I've tried many different ways to do the same thing since I've been building. Alot of the different things I've tried have been based on someone elses post. Somethings I continued with, but most I ended up going back to what work for me originally. 

There are many, many, many ways to accomplish the same thing... and they all work!


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## Steve Gardner (Mar 23, 2008)

Mr. Parpart;

I guess I owe you an apology! not for what I posted, but for how it came across. It was not meant as Terry referenced "to be condescending". 

You are correct in that there is more then one way to do many things in rod building. 

I should have also worded things better so as to not ruffle any feathers. 

You are also correct in that I should have stated that many builders including myself do it in one wrapping

But I'm in need of some understanding also. How is it easier and faster to figure out your guide placement attach your guides, do your static testing (assuming you do) mark were the guides go, then remove them, do a blocking wrap, reattach the guides then wrap the feet?

I am also a little confused by your conflicting comments. 

In your first post you stated that you neither use the locking or blocking wraps. In your second post state that you do

As far as Bill Stevens goes, if you are referring to the gentleman that did some of the seminars at the International Custom Rod Builders Show. I met him at the show but have not talked to him since. If he emailed you privately today it is because he chose to do so on his own, and not because of some imagined conversation between him and I. If that is what he emailed you? I guess he is one of the builders that have chosen to wrap them the way I do.

Maybe I should have used his discretion and also emailed you privately.

Terry;

I assure you that if I continue to post here. You will have plenty of more opportunities to correct my spelling.

I have a PHD in liquid solid directional flow control management. But my grammar sucks and I still can't spell. Go Figure!


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## Terrynj (Jun 27, 2006)

Steve, I am also a terrible speller and not much better in grammer.









I did get a PM from Mr. Stevens right after my other post, which I wont go into here, but it goes along the lines of what I was talking about.....

I will apologize if I jumped to quick, but we have had politics from the other board show up here before and its not a direction we want to go.
Thanks for posting again...I look forward to more of your contributions. One of these days I will figure out how to do the micro-guides right! lol


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## Scott Kleppe (Apr 30, 2007)

Well, now all we need is Rink Rat to chime in and there will be a full chorus. 

If you two, Bill and Stan, can't contribute in a positive way please stay the hell off. Dont use this site to tear someone apart.


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## Fishtoys (Jul 4, 2007)

*Dang it*

Dang it, there goes the neighborhood. I too like to use a trim band to secure a single guide foot Jerry although I don't do much small rods but it has worked for me. Lots of ways to skin a cat is the truth.


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## Scott Kleppe (Apr 30, 2007)

Scott Kleppe said:


> Well, now all we need is Rink Rat to chime in and there will be a full chorus.
> 
> If you two, Bill and Stan, can't contribute in a positive way please stay the hell off. Dont use this site to tear someone apart.


WHOOOPS I meant STEVE and BILL, Nothing to do with STAN. Please except my appologies to whoever is named Stan


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## Putter Parpart (Feb 10, 2007)

*Whew!!!*

*Thanks for what you came back and said, Steve. That shows that you're the type of person that I'd figured you to be previously! *

*To answer your questions below:*

But I'm in need of some understanding also. How is it easier and faster to figure out your guide placement attach your guides, do your static testing (assuming you do) mark were the guides go, then remove them, do a blocking wrap, reattach the guides then wrap the feet?
I am also a little confused by your conflicting comments. 
In your first post you stated that you neither use the locking or blocking wraps. In your second post state that you do

*This is easily answered. Like most rod builders, I'm a "Mikey". I'll try anything!! I've certainly done blocking wraps and even the Forhan just to try it. I've done them on a very few rods, but with the extra epoxy and thread needed and my past history of no problems with guides being pulled out ("for me"), I just quit doing it is all. The guide that pulled out was on rod that I just repaired this past evening (owner wanted an ORANGE wrap on it; I'll use Pac Bay's metallic orange from now on to fill those requests). He also broke this rod about three inches below the guide that pulled out.*

*He brought it to my house with egg definitely on his face. And that's the way anyone should be when they pull a guide out of a wrap on one of my rods. It's abuse, plain and simple. Only question is how much to charge him for the repairs? Getting off the subject of answering your questions, though...*

*In my practice of placing the guides at that time, I used thin strips of masking tape to hold the guide after I'd decided where to put it. I now use FlexCoat's guide adhesive.*

*After trying to wrap the first guide using the blocking wrap and my ensuing awkward struggle with the thread hitting the guide as I tried to wrap it, I tried removing the guide on the next wrap. By placing one small strip of masking tape on the blank where the guide wrap would end, I then removed the guide. I then wrapped the blocking wrap up to the piece of tape, re-taped the guide on there, and wrapped it. At that point, I knew which way I liked better and finished that first rod that way. I'd tried it both ways and found which way I liked to do it better. I think that I had to use 4 threads to do it that way, not trusting any less to hold the tie-off in place.*

*Later, I did another rod with blocking wraps, but used a different color thread for it and also for the first four wraps on the guide wrap, too. I wasn't impressed with the "look" afterwards and didn't continue with it after that one. Haven't used the blocking wraps since that last, colored trim band attempt. *



Disclaimer: The thoughts, ideas and methods expressed by me above are of my own experiences and will in no way invalidate others' experiences or methods of doing things. LOL!!!


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## Rink Rat (Mar 26, 2008)

A wise man told me this recently......

TWO WOLVES- 
An elder Cherokee Indian was teaching his grandchildren about life. He said to them, "A fight is going on inside of me... it is a terrible fight and it is between two wolves.One wolf represents fear, anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance,self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority,and ego. The other stands for joy, peace, love, hope, sharing, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, friendship, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion, and faith.This same fight is going on inside you, and inside every other person, too" 
The grandchildren thought about it for a minute and then one child asked his grandfather, "Which wolf will win?" 
The old Cherokee simply replied...*"The one you feed!"*

Play nice and help one another or I will step in again!!!!!! Good night for now but remember that I am watching.


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## Bob Balcombe (Mar 15, 2008)

Each one of us has a special wrap and if that wrap works for you don't change it. I do mine comepletly differnt than you guys. I stop about 4 wraps from the ring . I then make four wraps in front thehn go back to the back side of the ring and wrap to wher I left off and tie off. noone has ever noticed I do this. So guys Like Putter says there is more than one way to skin cat. Speaking of that has anyone used catgut for a wrap LOL
You have to be almost 70 to answer that one Good Wraps Bob


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## Terrynj (Jun 27, 2006)

Bob Balcombe said:


> Each one of us has a special wrap and if that wrap works for you don't change it. I do mine comepletly differnt than you guys. I stop about 4 wraps from the ring . I then make four wraps in front thehn go back to the back side of the ring and wrap to wher I left off and tie off. noone has ever noticed I do this. So guys Like Putter says there is more than one way to skin cat. Speaking of that has anyone used catgut for a wrap LOL
> You have to be almost 70 to answer that one Good Wraps Bob


I've never heard of that, but I bet it works really well. It might be difficult for me since I am "thread impaired" lol
I didn't get a chance to welcome you to our board...glad to have you on deck!


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## Steve Gardner (Mar 23, 2008)

Mr. Parpart;

Thank you for your response!



Terry;

 Thank you! I tend to stay away form politics except then affects my country

The Micro guides are easier than you think once you get past the learning curve.



Rink Rat;

That is an awesome story true or not. It is very well stated I hope you don't mind if I steal it?



Mr. Kleppe;

I'm not sure who you are? But you are the only one I see on this post not contributing in a positive way. Your sarcasm is unappreciated and unwarranted. But if it is your wish that I not post here that is fine. 

I was personally asked to start plugging into this site, but assuming by your orders "_stay the hell off"_ you own this site; I will abide by your decision. 



To those I've communicated with while on this site; Thank You I've enjoyed our conversations and postings.

Steve Gardner

Vibronics Custom Rods


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## Scott Kleppe (Apr 30, 2007)

I'm sorry for my choice of words, but it appears to me your attacking Putter, who I have met and have the utmost respect for.

This post is the same thing you see on another board, and like others I really don't want to see it on here. You could have choose to PM Putter and not have it viewed by others. That would have been the politically correct choice, but instead you choose to single Putter out and question his method so other would think yours is the only correct way. I too in turn decided to use this forum to say what I wanted to say, instead of being politically correct and sending you a PM. Not very smart on my part either.

I will have to apologize to Bill Stevens. Bill did choose the correct way and for that Bill I'm sorry. I did also have the impression from the replied post that maybe you two were in cahoots together. _Bill I am sorry_.

Steve, I am a nobody who tends to speak loud. I love to frequent this site, to read and learn, and help encourage others. If you cannot also do the same then _personnally_ I do ask that you _Stay the Hell Off_.

I am only one person, a nobody in Rod Building. If you take offense to what I said, enough to keep you posting here, then you must be guilty. If not then call me a crazy troublemaker and keep on posting.

Scott


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## Steve Gardner (Mar 23, 2008)

No Mr. Kleppe

Not an admission of guilt!

But a choice not to be attacked by a person who I thought was a Some Buddy but claims to be a "*No Buddy*" that chooses the right to "*speak loudly*"

Then personally attacks and asks that anyone else who does so "*stay the hell off*" the site

Were I come from that's called hypocrisy



As far as Mr Praprat goes; although to my knowledge, I have never met him. I too have the utmost respect for him, his abilities, his willingness to share with others, and his status in the rod building community. And will continue to doe so unless he leads me to believe other wise. 



Mr Parpart; I again apologise to you for anything that was miss handled or miss posted out of place. My posting was not an attempt to discredit you in anyway, but rather and attempt to clarify some info that I had thought was posted incorrectly. In the future I will be more discrete.



I also apologise that this post has turned into what it is. 



Mr Kleppe since you are a No Buddy I will wait until a Some Buddy asks me not to post before withdrawing my registration.


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## mark blabaum (Dec 6, 2007)

To get back to the original post, I use a variation of all of the locking wraps. It's a take off of the forhan locking wrap that is easier for me to use. Instead of making the figure 8 around the blank and the guide like the forhan lock, I loop around the guide and then go around the blank and back over the top of the guide. I do this three times and then wrap around the blank three times in front of the guide as well making a blocking ring in effect. I think that this method is as good as forhans, I think this system makes for a tighter fit between the tread and the guide. Being part Norwegian I couldn't follow the directions for the wrap, I had to make up my own (lol).


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## PTH (Aug 22, 2006)

*Wow!*

I was off for a couple of days . I turned on my laptop and logged in and WOW! 
Thank you all for responding and for sharing your style with everyone. I think that we get a feel for what everyone likes and thinks way before we actually ever meet at a trade show or a gathering. Thank you Mr. Putter, I am a fan of your work. I know there are others in the club that feel the same way. Any time you post something, I have to read it. I still beleive that this is the best place to get the best information and answers. Everyone else that contributed I also thank you.


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## Putter Parpart (Feb 10, 2007)

*Pat, do remember that I did post that most rod builders using these wraps use the Forhan. Don't take that "I don't use them" as any absolute, please. I just haven't personally seen the need to do it for my building for my customers is all. Many do see that need.*

*The way some factory rods are wrapped, they could definitely use an edge! I know a few outwrappers who do some real quality work, so sure wouldn't want to slight them by saying all factory rods either... *

*Jeez, I'm gettin' careful what I say anymore??? LOL!!*


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## Doc Labanowski (Jan 9, 2006)

Hope your question got answered there PTH. I think we should all recognize that the reason these boards exist is to exchange information and we would be silly to believe there is only one way to do anything. I attempt to learn and familiarize myself with every technique I hear about. Not that I have changed much over the years but if I or someone has a failure we can disguss and look at options. What works for one person may not work for the next and that is why we have so many techniques and most work quite well for someone. If you are having problems with some part of rod building then you should investigate, try and if it works for you employ it. I cheer people who share techniques that work for them but we really need to stay in the positive mode. Sorry, just my old 2 cents.


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## PTH (Aug 22, 2006)

*Hi Doc*

Boss, you are correct. I learned several things in this thread and one was what you just mentioned. By the way, do you still use Sta Bond and where can I get It?


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## Doc Labanowski (Jan 9, 2006)

Sorry the Stabond days might be gone. They are still in business in Gardena but most people wont ship it because of the hazardous chemical thing. Always amazes me. No truck has every blown up because of Stabond but they have to slapp these label on everything. I am guessing when I am out of it I will start using Rod Bond. The Dinosaur must change.


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## Putter Parpart (Feb 10, 2007)

*PTH = Pete, not Pat (Putter = dunderhead)*

*Jeez, just noticed I called you Pat; sorry about that Pete!*


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## Tombo (Mar 15, 2005)

And I thought this was a post about a one legged fishing guide. 

I used to use a small surgical tubing cut into short lengths, roll them on the blank, and roll them back on the guides. Make the lenght small so you can wrap around the foot till the guide is secure, then cut off the tubing. Had lots of those suckers around my shop when I built rods.


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## BigJohnBlair (Apr 18, 2006)

I have used two are three methods to do a blocking wrap.......I agree with Randy and the only time I use a blocking wrap is when a customer wants it. Nothing wrong with a blocking wrap but like Randy I have never had any problems. I suspect factory rods may have a problem because of their process in wrapping......

Thanks guys and gals


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