# Toenail fungus



## Shallow_Minded (Sep 21, 2004)

I was curious if anyone here has ever gotten a toenail fungus? Several months ago I noticed my right big toenail stopped growing. I went to the doctor and he said I had a fungus. I asked him where I could have got it and he said it's very common here with our high humidity.

Being a member of 4 different gyms so I probably picked it up at one of them. He said it's the same fungus that causes athlete's foot but migrates to the nail. 

I asked him the best way to treat it and he put me on Lamisil. He said topical aren't that affective but Lamisil has over a 90% cure rate. The kicker is I have to take this stuff for 90 days and it's hard on the liver. You know what that means, no alcohol for 3 months and I have to get my liver tested once a month.

He said I shouldn't have any problems because I'm a pretty healthy guy but looking at the side effects on the internet scares the heck out of me. People losing their taste sensation, breaking out in hives, liver damage, etc.
I've been on the meds for a week now and haven't developed any side effects thus far. 

I was curious if anyone else has had any experience with this medication and what was your outcome.

S.M.


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## jlatigo (Aug 4, 2006)

i took the med for the three months and other than an upset stomach for a few days i've had no other side effects. The treatment seems to be working


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## Reel-tor (May 21, 2004)

A lot cheaper than pills. You can have your beer and get rid of fungus, too!

*Dave Carnell's Boatbuilding Page *

*Chemotherapy for Rot*

Once rot gets a toehold in wood it is difficult to cure completely -- it is like a cancer. Digging out the rotted wood will still leave spores and water in the sound wood. After you fill in the cavity with something like epoxy, the rot continues to flourish underneath. Products promoted to make rotted wood sound and stop rot penetrate only until they meet water, with which they do not mix. Under the solid repair rotting goes on. With one exception (more later), the commercial products sold to treat dry wood to prevent rot are completely ineffective against established rot in wet wood because they are dissolved in petroleum solvents and oil and water do not mix. 
There are two commonly available inexpensive materials that will kill rot in wood and prevent its recurrence. First, there are borates (borax-boric acid mixtures) which have an established record in preventing rot in new wood and in killing rot organisms and wood-destroying insects in infested wood. Second, there is ethylene glycol, most readily available as auto antifreeze-coolant. Glycol is toxic to the whole spectrum of organisms from staphylococcus bacteria to mammals. All of the published material on its effectiveness against wood-destroying fungi and insects that I am aware of is the result of my investigations over the past 15 years.
Both borate solutions and glycol penetrate dry and wet wood well because they are water-soluble; in fact, penetration by glycol is especially helped by its extreme hygroscopicity -- its strong attraction for water. For both, the fact that they are water-soluble means they are not permanent solutions to rot in wood that is continually exposed to water-below the waterline and in ground-where they will eventually be extracted-dissolved out.
I first was interested in glycol as a wood-stabilizing agent, where it is in many ways superior to polyethylene glycol (PEG), and it was during this work that I realized the useful effect of glycol on organisms, though I was pretty dense in interpreting the first experiment.
The ladies immerse the stems of greenery such as magnolia branches in glycerin to keep them green. Glycol is very similar to glycerin in all its physical properties and much cheaper, so I stuck a magnolia branch in antifreeze. The next day it was brown. After the third attempt I tumbled to the fact that the glycol was killing the greenery. This was the reason that glycol never replaced glycerin in applications such as a humectant for tobacco and an ingredient of cosmetics and pharmaceutical ointments, though it had all the desirable physical properties.
I had two 2" thick slabs of a 14" diameter hickory tree that had just been cut. I treated one with antifreeze and left one untreated. I was looking at wood stabilization, not rot prevention. After about six months stored inside my shop the untreated control was not only cracked apart, but it was sporting a great fungal growth, while the treated slab was clean.
The local history museum wanted to exhibit two "turpentine trees", longleaf pines that had many years ago been gashed to harvest the sap that made everything from turpentine to pine tar. The trees delivered to us after cutting were infested with various beetles and had some fungal growth. I treated them with antifreeze outside under a plastic tarpaulin every few days for three weeks. They were then free of insects and fungus and have remained so after being moved inside and installed in an exhibit over four years ago.
I took three pieces from a rotting dock float that were covered with a heavy growth of fungus, lichens, etc. I treated one with antifreeze painted on with a brush, the second with a water solution containing 23% borates (as B2O3), and left the third untreated as a control. They were left exposed outdoors and were rained on the first night. By the next morning the growth on the antifreeze-treated piece was definitely browning and the borate-treated piece showed slight browning. After two months exposure to the weather the growth was dead on the antifreeze- and borate-treated pieces and flourishing on the control.
I have a simple flat-bottomed skiff built of plywood and white pine, which has little resistance to rot. After ten years some rot developed in one of the frames. It may have begun in the exposed end grain. It consumed the side frame, part of the bottom frame, and part of a seat brace fastened to the side frame. The plywood gusset joining the side frame to the bottom frame was not attacked. I excised the rotted wood, saturated all with ethylene glycol antifreeze to kill all the rot organisms, and there has been no further deterioration in four more years afloat with wet bilges. I have not replaced any pieces, as I am building another boat that can replace it; that is more fun, anyway.
*I have a 60+-year old case of the fungus infection known as "athlete's foot". Many years ago it infected the toenails extensively. The whole thing was pretty grotesque. My dermatologist and druggist both assured me there is no known cure. About six years ago I started using antifreeze applied under the nails with a medicine dropper about every five days. The professionals are technically right. I have not completely cured it, but the nails have grown out pink and thinned almost to the ends and I never have any trouble with blistering, peeling, or itching between the toes as I had had for six decades*. No drug company is going to have any interest in this because the information has been in the public domain for so long that there is no opportunity for any proprietary advantage. The various wood-rotting organisms cannot be anywhere near as tough.
There are two types of borate products commercially available for treating wood-solid sodium octaborate for making solutions in water (Tim-Bor® and Ship-Bor®) and a 40% solution of sodium octaborate in ethylene glycol (Boracare®). Their equivalents and more concentrated solutions can be easily prepared from borax, boric acid, and antifreeze at much lower cost. Keith Lawrence, editor of _Boatbuilder_ offered to sell me advertising if I wanted to go in the business, but I might run afoul of patents (preparation for individual use is not prohibited), I would have to get EPA registration, and I could not deliver products anywhere near as cheaply as they can be made from raw materials available at your supermarket, drugstore, and discount store.
Glycol by itself has one big advantage over solutions of borates in either water or glycol. Glycol penetrates rapidly through all paint, varnish, and oil finishes (except epoxy and polyurethanes) without lifting or damaging those finishes in any way. You can treat all of the wood of your boat without removing any finish. The dyes in glycol antifreeze are so weak that they do not discolor even white woods. Once bare wood has been treated with glycol or the borate solutions and become dry to the touch it can be finished or glued. IN THE YEARS SINCE I FIRST WROTE THIS ARTICLE, MY EXPERIENCE HAS BEEN THAT GLYCOL BY ITSELF IS GENERALLY THE BEST TREATMENT FOR KILLING ROT. Gougeon's research has shown that borate solutions weaken epoxy joints in the treated wood. If a borate solution leaves white residues on the surface, it will have to be washed off with water and the surface allowed to dry.
If you decide you need to treat with both glycol and borates, this is my preferred process to treat rot. Once you find soft wood or other evidence of rot, soak it with antifreeze even if you cannot do anything else at the moment. Paint it on or spray it on with a coarse spray. Avoid fine mistlike spraying because it increases the likelihood that you will breathe in unhealthy amounts of glycol. Put it on surfaces well away from the really damaged wood, too. Use glycol lavishly on the suspect wood, which will readily absorb 10-20% of its weight of antifreeze.
Next dig out wood that is rotted enough to be weak. Add more glycol to wet the exposed wood thoroughly. Then add the 25% borate solution of the recipe below so long as it will soak in in no more than 2-3 hours. Then fill in the void with epoxy putty and/or a piece of sound treated wood as required. The reasons I use borates at all are: 1) it is a belt-and-suspenders approach to a virulent attack, and 2) over a long period glycol will evaporate from the wood; especially, in areas exposed directly to the sun and the high temperatures that result.
If there is any question about water extracting the glycol or the borates, you can retreat periodically with glycol on any surface, painted or bare, and with borate solutions on bare wood.
*Glycol's toxicity to humans is low enough that it has to be deliberately ingested (about a half cup for a 150 lb. human); many millions of gallons are used annually with few precautions and without incident. It should not be left where children or pets can get at it, as smaller doses would harm them, and they may be attracted by its reported sweet taste that I have confirmed by accident*. The lethal dose of borates is smaller than of glycol, but the bitter taste makes accidental consumption less likely.

BORATE WOOD PRESERVATIVES: HOME-BREWED
Home-Brew Water Solution of Borates: 
All percentages for this recipe and the others here are percentages by weight. Based on U.S. Navy spec. of 60% borax-40% boric acid (this ratio gives the maximum solubility of borates in water); 65% water, 20 %borax, 15% boric acid; 15.8% borates; borax costs 54 cents/lb. (supermarket), boric acid costs about $4/lb. in drug stores (sometimes boric acid roach poison, 99% boric acid, is cheaper in discount stores); equiv. to Tim-Bor® or Ship-Bor® at 30 cents/lb. To make this solution mix the required quantities and heat until dissolved. The boric acid, in particular, dissolves slowly. This solution is stable (no crystals) overnight in a refrigerator (40°F.), so can be used at temperatures at least as low as 40°F.
Home-Brew Glycol Solution of Borates: 
This is equivalent to Bora-Care® diluted with an equal volume of glycol to make it fluid enough to use handily; 50% glycol antifreeze, 28% borax, 22% boric acid. To make a stable solution you mix the ingredients and heat till boiling gently. Boil off water until a candy thermometer shows 260°F. This removes most of the water of crystallization in the borax. This solution is stable at 40°F and has a borate content of 26%. With antifreeze at $6/gal. and borax and boric acid prices as above, this is equivalent to Bora-Care® at about $15/gal.


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## bill (May 21, 2004)

Shallow Minded said:


> Being a *member of 4 different gyms* so I probably picked it up at one of them.
> 
> S.M.


I would be more worried about that...4? serious?? LOL Only thing I can think of, is work out at one, then a lot of eye candy at the other 3.

Just messing with you........


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## Shallow_Minded (Sep 21, 2004)

bill said:


> I would be more worried about that...4? serious?? LOL Only thing I can think of, is work out at one, then a lot of eye candy at the other 3.
> 
> Just messing with you........


The memberships are free, I teach spinning classes part-time.:redface:

S.M.


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## McAnulty (May 31, 2009)

just pee on it


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## 9121SS (Jun 28, 2009)

I took lamisil and it worked for me with no probs.


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## Docile Apostle (Jun 24, 2009)

Maybe if you take some biotin it will help improve your nails and give your hair some shine. =D


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## reelthreat (Jul 11, 2006)

My dad had it for years and could not take lamisil... someone told him about Vicks Vapor Rub treatment and it worked for him in about a month. All he did was rub it on his feet in the morning and evening. He smells like vicks everywhere he goes but he does not have fungus anymore. Its worth a try. BTW, it is in your shower, shoes, around the house... so you have to continue to use the rub for months after it is gone.


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## essayons75 (May 15, 2006)

I sold Lamisil for a couple of years. There is really nothing else that works as well. MDs use it as #1 thearapy and it has been around for many years with few serious issues worldwide. Just do the liver test and don't drink heavily. You will be fine.

Just remember, anything a pharmaceutical company says good about their product, they must say as much bad about the same product by FDA rules. Since you are already taking it, keep taking it.

If you read the package insert, side effects are similar to placebo.

http://www.pharma.us.novartis.com/product/pi/pdf/Lamisil_tablets.pdf


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## Bull Fish (Nov 15, 2006)

I lost my big toe nail on my left foot about 10 years ago. it took 2 years to grow back. But when it did it had a fungus and stopped growing again. I was told by an oldtimer to put a small amount of anifreeze on it twice a day. It only took a few weeks to go away and I have not had it come back either. At the time I was on my tools so a little more Glycol did not bother me. It may be a simpler solution for you to try and you can still drink the beers.


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## remi19 (Feb 27, 2008)

Bull Fish said:


> I lost my big toe nail on my left foot about 10 years ago. it took 2 years to grow back. But when it did it had a fungus and stopped growing again. *I was told by an oldtimer to put a small amount of anifreeze on it twice a day*. It only took a few weeks to go away and I have not had it come back either. At the time I was on my tools so a little more Glycol did not bother me. It may be a simpler solution for you to try and you can still drink the beers.


WTH, you kidding, learn something new everyday. I have herd of oldtimers spraying WD-40 on joints if they hurt, but anti freeze?


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## Shallow_Minded (Sep 21, 2004)

I've read about a whole slew of remedies since this fungus thing came up. Everything from a vinegar solution, hydrogen peroxide, anti-freeze, Vicks vapor rub, etc.

I'll try the Lamisil first but thanks for all the input.


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## RogerB (Oct 11, 2005)

I used it - no problems - other than growing a 3rd ear, loss of hair, excess weight gain, insomnia, and warts - the fungus is gone though


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## CentexPW (Jun 22, 2004)

What no pics?


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## BonesNTX (Aug 14, 2006)

I took 2 rounds of LAMISIL and still have Fungus. Dr gave up.

I've been thinking of using CONSANS but a little dangerous...none the less I bet it work and if it blinds me then I wouldn't see fungus anymore.

hmmm....Anti-freeze....


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## Mike B Fishin (Aug 11, 2006)

A friend of mine uses the VA hospital, they just removed his toenails. You gotta love Government Health Care. He looks a little funny in sandals, but the problem is solved.


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## Shallow_Minded (Sep 21, 2004)

My doctor told me another remedy would be to soak my foot in a solution of bleach and water but most people get tired of that after a week or so. 

He went on to say that he sees a lot of this in teenagers but the fungus usually disappears by the end of the summer. I asked why and he said because they swim and the chlorine in the pool kills the fungus.

Makes sense...


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## WilliamH (May 21, 2004)

Reel-tor said:


> A lot cheaper than pills. You can have your beer and get rid of fungus, too!
> 
> *Dave Carnell's Boatbuilding Page *


Simmons Sea Skiff fame. Great boat!!


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## backlashingcooger (Aug 2, 2006)

I tried all the over the counter things I could buy,finally went to the Dr and went the Lamisil route...It worked and has never come back.go


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## seattleman1969 (Jul 17, 2008)

Shallow Minded said:


> I was curious if anyone here has ever gotten a toenail fungus? Several months ago I noticed my right big toenail stopped growing. I went to the doctor and he said I had a fungus. I asked him where I could have got it and he said it's very common here with our high humidity.
> 
> Being a member of 4 different gyms so I probably picked it up at one of them. He said it's the same fungus that causes athlete's foot but migrates to the nail.
> 
> ...


90 days??? I had toe fungus and the worst case of athlete's foot ever, I thought my toes were going to fall off, but i only had to be on it for 7 days and it cleared my fungus completely.

I'd get a second opinion.


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## JOHNNY QUEST (Mar 6, 2006)

This thread is just seriously grose..


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## Mrschasintail (Dec 8, 2004)

Not as gross as walking around with toe fungus! LOL


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## winot (Jul 10, 2009)

Had a similiar problem with my thumbnail. Doctor wanted to " remove the nail and have it tested" Told him he wasn't yankin my nail off . got 2nd opinion during carpal tunnel surgery. surgeon put me on lamisil for 6 months, took it for 2 and fungus was gone. He never mentioned the no booze thing or i woulda reconsidered the yankin deal. drank just like usual with no problems..good luck.. winot


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## rsoria1 (Apr 19, 2008)

i took it a few years ago and it works kinda a pain cuz it takes three months but it does work and the side effects are rare just do the liver test and you can have a few cold ones but i would stay away from the whiskey rivers


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## insaneracin2003 (Feb 22, 2006)

another remedy is to soak your toes in a mixture of water and listorine...no kidding. if all else fail at least you will have great smelling toes. but seriously, water and listorine works in a few weeks.


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## Big Willy (Jun 20, 2007)

The problem with most topical medications or treatment options: they don't penetrate into the nail cuticle very well which is where the fungus resides once it affects the toenail. 

Oral terbinafine, Lamisil, is very effective at eradicating the fungus but the possibility of liver complications has to be noted even if it is a very unlikely complication. I would not worry about the liver associated side effects as long as you get your blood work done you should be good to go.


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## sweenyite (Feb 22, 2009)

My wife had it. She used Tea Tree Oil from the health food store. Took a while, but it cured it. Isn't supposed to be bad for the liver either.


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## Red3Fish (Jun 4, 2004)

*What works for me...*

I dont know why, but I seem to get it a lot when I wade wet in Salt Water. I tried several remedies with limited success. Finally, I took my dremel with the little pointed grinder, and ground a hole at the back of the little trail of brown growth under my toenail, and put a few drops of pure bleach on it and under the nail..and repeat for about a week. Worked every time. Of course you have kinda a goofy looking toenail for a while, like 4 or 5 months! LOL

You have to kinda go slow when you get close to grinding through. It is hollow, under the growth part.

Later
R3F


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## jig (Aug 2, 2005)

I did the PenLac topical. Basically nail polich with medicine. I followed instructions exactly and it worked fine.


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