# April 2, 2014



## DA REEL DADDY (Jun 7, 2005)

*John 5:17-30*

_Jesus answered the Jews: 
â€œMy Father is at work until now, so I am at work.â€
For this reason they tried all the more to kill him,
because he not only broke the sabbath
but he also called God his own father, making himself equal to God.

Jesus answered and said to them,
â€œAmen, amen, I say to you, the Son cannot do anything on his own,
but only what he sees the Father doing;
for what he does, the Son will do also.
For the Father loves the Son
and shows him everything that he himself does,
and he will show him greater works than these,
so that you may be amazed.
For just as the Father raises the dead and gives life,
so also does the Son give life to whomever he wishes.
Nor does the Father judge anyone,
but he has given all judgment to the Son,
so that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father.
Whoever does not honor the Son
does not honor the Father who sent him.
Amen, amen, I say to you, whoever hears my word
and believes in the one who sent me
has eternal life and will not come to condemnation,
but has passed from death to life.
Amen, amen, I say to you, the hour is coming and is now here
when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God,
and those who hear will live.
For just as the Father has life in himself,
so also he gave to the Son the possession of life in himself.
And he gave him power to exercise judgment,
because he is the Son of Man.
Do not be amazed at this,
because the hour is coming in which all who are in the tombs
will hear his voice and will come out,
those who have done good deeds
to the resurrection of life,
but those who have done wicked deeds
to the resurrection of condemnation.

â€œI cannot do anything on my own;
I judge as I hear, and my judgment is just,
because I do not seek my own will
but the will of the one who sent me.â€_


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

Those are great scriptures. Jesus giving the credit to his father Jehovah. They accused Jesus of being equal to God, but Jesus never said he was equal to God. He always humbly gave credit to God, and did not take the credit himself.


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## DA REEL DADDY (Jun 7, 2005)

shaggydog said:


> Those are great scriptures. Jesus giving the credit to his father Jehovah. They accused Jesus of being equal to God, but Jesus never said he was equal to God. He always humbly gave credit to God, and did not take the credit himself.


*Jesus answered the Jews: 
â€œMy Father is at work until now, so I am at work.â€
For this reason they tried all the more to kill him,
because he not only broke the sabbath
but he also called God his own father, making himself equal to God.
*


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## DA REEL DADDY (Jun 7, 2005)

How do you interpret the above Scripture on post 3?


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

He did call God his father, which was true. he did not call himself God. The quote from Jesus ends at "so I am at work". Never once in the scriptures did Jesus say he was equal to God. The Pharisees mad that accusation, but it was untrue. Jesus always gave all the glory to Jehovah, as I see it.


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## DA REEL DADDY (Jun 7, 2005)

In all due respect, Mark thinks Jesus was equal to God, because he wrote it. Right?


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## Danny O (Apr 14, 2010)

John the Baptist also said Jesus was God, John 1:18 and John the Baptist says in John 1:30 that Jesus came after him (in birth) but before him (in Spirit). I'm paraphrasing so don't go all radical on me! This is how I read it.


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

Pet Spoon said:


> John the Baptist also said Jesus was God, John 1:18 and John the Baptist says in John 1:30 that Jesus came after him (in birth) but before him (in Spirit). I'm paraphrasing so don't go all radical on me! This is how I read it.


(John 1:30) This is the one about whom I said: â€˜Behind me there comes a man who has advanced in front of me, for he existed before me.â€™

My understanding of the scripture is that while Jesus was younger, came after him, but existed before me. Jesus did exist before him in the heavens.

(John 1:18) No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is at the Fatherâ€™s side is the one who has explained Him.

I really do not see where Jesus was called God here. Actually, quite the opposite. The first part of the scripture says that no man has ever seen God. Many saw Jesus while he was on the earth. It then goes on to say that the only begotten god (small letters, Jesus) who is at his Father's side is the one who explained him, which is exactly what Jesus did. It is speaking of two entities and to me shows that Jesus is not God.

Here is the KJ version 18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

I really do not try to go radical until I am unfoundly attacked. I really need to work on my self control. Being attacked is still not a good reason to argue.


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## Danny O (Apr 14, 2010)

In addition, John 1:1 the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God, then John 14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us...


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## Seeker (Jul 6, 2009)

I bet the whole Moses experience blows ones mind.. Even though Mosses was allowed in his essence, Mosses did see Yahweh from the back if I'm not mistaken. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. So be careful when stating that no one has seen the great "I AM". Also, the experience on the "Mount Transformation" would conflict with that statement. I do believe, there was another person who found favor with God that never died and was taken straight to heaven. Man, I can never remember his name without having to look it up.


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## atcfisherman (Oct 5, 2006)

Seeker said:


> I bet the whole Moses experience blows ones mind.. Even though Mosses was allowed in his essence, Mosses did see Yahweh from the back if I'm not mistaken. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. So be careful when stating that no one has seen the great "I AM". Also, the experience on the "Mount Transformation" would conflict with that statement. I do believe, there was another person who found favor with God that never died and was taken straight to heaven. Man, I can never remember his name without having to look it up.


I believe Enoch was the one you were talking about.


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

Seeker said:


> I bet the whole Moses experience blows ones mind.. Even though Mosses was allowed in his essence, Mosses did see Yahweh from the back if I'm not mistaken. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. So be careful when stating that no one has seen the great "I AM". Also, the experience on the "Mount Transformation" would conflict with that statement. I do believe, there was another person who found favor with God that never died and was taken straight to heaven. Man, I can never remember his name without having to look it up.


I do not think that is what the scriptures say. 
Here is the KJ version 18 No man hath seen God at any time;

You have to die to go to heaven. Jesus was the first.


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

Seeker said:


> I bet the whole Moses experience blows ones mind.. Even though Mosses was allowed in his essence, Mosses did see Yahweh from the back if I'm not mistaken. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. So be careful when stating that no one has seen the great "I AM". Also, the experience on the "Mount Transformation" would conflict with that statement. I do believe, there was another person who found favor with God that never died and was taken straight to heaven. Man, I can never remember his name without having to look it up.


It took me a while to find what I was looking for but here is the scripture that shows Jesus was the first to ascend into heaven.

John 3:13 13â€¯Moreover, no man has ascended into heaven but the one who descended from heaven, the Son of man.


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

atcfisherman said:


> I believe Enoch was the one you were talking about.


I think you are correct. Jehovah took him, but he did not take him to heaven. Enoch lived and died long before Jesus was born.


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## Seeker (Jul 6, 2009)

No sir, it would be Elijah. Gods prophet to Israel. (1st Kings 17-19)


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## atcfisherman (Oct 5, 2006)

When did Enoch die? What scripture shows this? Just wondering. 


In Christ Alone I Place My Trust


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## Seeker (Jul 6, 2009)

He was taken into Heaven on a chariot. I can tell the story if I need to.


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

atcfisherman said:


> When did Enoch die? What scripture shows this? Just wondering.
> 
> In Christ Alone I Place My Trust


This is a copy and paste, but it tells the story of Enoch. Look up the scriptures for a clear understanding.

ENOCH
(Eâ€²noch) [One Trained Up; Inaugurated [that is, dedicated, initiated]].
1.Â Son of Cain and father of Irad. Enoch was born in the land of Fugitiveness after Cain had killed his brother Abel.â€"Ge 4:17,Â 18.
2.Â The son born to Jared at the age of 162; the seventh man in the genealogical line from Adam. In addition to Methuselah, who was born to him when he was 65 years old, Enoch had other sons and daughters. Enoch was one of the â€œso great a cloud of witnessesâ€ who were outstanding examples of faith in ancient times. â€œEnoch kept walking with the true God.â€ (Ge 5:18, 21-24; Heb 11:5; 12:1) As a prophet of Jehovah, he foretold Godâ€™s coming with His holy myriads to execute judgment against the ungodly. (Jude 14,Â 15) Likely persecution was brought against him because of his prophesying. However, God did not permit the opposers to kill Enoch. Instead, Jehovah â€œtook him,â€ that is, cut short his life at the age of 365, an age far below that of most of his contemporaries. Enoch was â€œtransferred so as not to see death,â€ which may mean that God put him in a prophetic trance and then terminated Enochâ€™s life while he was in the trance so that he did not experience the pangs of death. (Ge 5:24; Heb 11:5,Â 13) However, he was not taken to heaven, in view of Jesusâ€™ clear statement at John 3:13. It appears that, as in the case of Mosesâ€™ body, Jehovah disposed of Enochâ€™s body, for â€œhe was nowhere to be found.â€â€"De 34:5,Â 6; Jude 9.

We believe that Enoch has an earthly calling. The New Covenant opened the door for the anointed, after the death of Jesus. I look forward to meeting those faithful men of old.


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

Seeker said:


> No sir, it would be Elijah. Gods prophet to Israel. (1st Kings 17-19)


I believe he too died before Jesus time.


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## Seeker (Jul 6, 2009)

This is correct Shaggy. But, remember, there were a lot of things that went on back during those days that would blow a layman's mind. (Figure of speech) Enoch walked with God and saw him si the bible says. After that error, the sons of God is of most fascinating to me and I wished there was more "official" written stuff about that time but most written that I have seen, is only speculation (my opinion only). Evil at extreme's which boggle our modern day minds. You can spend a literal lifetime studying the things that went on during this time I'm sure that are not covered in the bible I read. Giants, nephilim... so crazy stuff. It is said that Goliath, the giant that King David killed was a direct decedent of these creatures.[/QUOTE]


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## surfdad_96712 (Aug 29, 2006)

Its So Simple
the scriptures explain themselves 
16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

And the warning

11 Serve the Lord with reverent awe and worshipful fear; rejoice and be in high spirits with trembling [lest you displease Him].
12 Kiss the Son [pay homage to Him in purity], lest He be angry and you perish in the way, for soon shall His wrath be kindled. O blessed (happy, fortunate, and to be envied) are all those who seek refuge and put their trust in Him!

Emmanuel Hebrew: ×¢×ž× ×•××œ, God is with us) is Jesus ,the soon coming King
you can deny the deity of Jesus but God's word says otherwise


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

Seeker said:


> This is correct Shaggy. But, remember, there were a lot of things that went on back during those days that would blow a layman's mind. (Figure of speech) Enoch walked with God and saw him si the bible says. After that error, the sons of God is of most fascinating to me and I wished there was more "official" written stuff about that time but most written that I have seen, is only speculation (my opinion only). Evil at extreme's which boggle our modern day minds. You can spend a literal lifetime studying the things that went on during this time I'm sure that are not covered in the bible I read. Giants, nephilim... so crazy stuff. It is said that Goliath, the giant that King David killed was a direct decedent of these creatures.


[/QUOTE]

I agree. We do our best to understand. I do believe in a resurrection back to the earth. The earth was where man was always meant to be. If God wanted man in heaven, He would have created him in heaven. All of those faithful men of old, will be resurrected back to the earth also. It will be very exciting talking to them.


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## Seeker (Jul 6, 2009)

I honestly don't understand how those chapters are going to look like. I know they are written and I will get to see it unfold and happen some day. For now, I will keep the faith. Help others who need help with my God given stewardship and wait on his direction. It seems to have been an unbelievable blessing up to this point in my life.


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