# Best way to get guides to stay in place while wrapping them



## [email protected]

I am in the middle of doing my first rod and I am having trouble keeping the guides in place while I wrap them. I have tried taking my quarter inch tape and cutting it in half but even doing that leaves very little of the guide foot exposed to get a wrap started on it. Are there any better ways to get the guide to stay while I wrap it or do I just need to make the tape work?


----------



## mad marlin

try elastic bands


----------



## dc1502

Low temp hot glue stick ......................Or guide foot adhesive from Flexcoat.


----------



## dc1502

Heat the guide foot with a lighter or alcohol lamp ,run the glue stick over the foot and place it on the mark...............That should get ya going.


----------



## flatsmaster14

dc1502 said:


> Heat the guide foot with a lighter or alcohol lamp ,run the glue stick over the foot and place it on the mark...............That should get ya going.


X2 or use the glue gun and put a small dab on the blank, put pressure on it and cut the run off with a razor


----------



## fishin styx

I use thin strips of surgical tubing. You can static test & test cast with them & then wrap them.


----------



## dc1502

fishin styx said:


> I use thin strips of surgical tubing. You can static test & test cast with them & then wrap them.


 This works also ,especially when your working with an unfamiliar or new blank.


----------



## Saltydawg1

fishin styx said:


> I use thin strips of surgical tubing. You can static test & test cast with them & then wrap them.


Ditto, this is what I use, unless the guides are micros, then I use the flex coat glue and heat the foot like mentioned above


----------



## Charlie2

*Wrapping Guides*

I wrap micro guides by wrapping about 5 turns of thread then pushing the guide foot under the thread. Then finish the wrap up to the guide then lock it. C2


----------



## [email protected]

Thanks guys, I was really at my wits end earlier, I couldn't get the thread to go up the guide foot, it kept slipping under and I had to take a break before I ended up throwing something lol. I'm going to try the hot glue stick approach and also try sanding down the foot to make it taper better and come to a point on the end so the transition between blank to foot is much smoother. I just want to be done with wrapping the guides so I can move on to the fun part of doing decorative wraps and personalization and trim bands. I have two guides left but they are the smallest ones and the toughest. I can't wait to be done with this rod and use it, it looks really good and is super light. I am using the 8 dollar blank that Lance had the special on and it is worth way more than 8 bucks. I would have easily paid 60 bucks for it, it will make a sweet wading and top water, corky rod. The bug has bit me, I'm already planning like 6 or 7 more rods lol.


----------



## Saltydawg1

[email protected] said:


> Thanks guys, I was really at my wits end earlier, I couldn't get the thread to go up the guide foot, it kept slipping under and I had to take a break before I ended up throwing something lol. I'm going to try the hot glue stick approach and also try sanding down the foot to make it taper better and come to a point on the end so the transition between blank to foot is much smoother. I just want to be done with wrapping the guides so I can move on to the fun part of doing decorative wraps and personalization and trim bands. I have two guides left but they are the smallest ones and the toughest. I can't wait to be done with this rod and use it, it looks really good and is super light. I am using the 8 dollar blank that Lance had the special on and it is worth way more than 8 bucks. I would have easily paid 60 bucks for it, it will make a sweet wading and top water, corky rod. The bug has bit me, I'm already planning like 6 or 7 more rods lol.


James, dressing the guide feet is the first thing you should do, always. Hope to see you at the Texas rod show, there will be a bunch of us there giving demos and you can get some one on one pointers:smile:


----------



## dc1502

In the beginning wrap what you can and develop your tech. and style.the $8 blanks from Lance are a great buy(buy as many as you can this is a great buy). Take your time and learn to trouble shoot your work. The best advice that I have ever recieved was from a guy that was much older and wiser than me ,I told him that I wanted to learn how to build rods like he did. He then said ,well first let me tell you "There is a fine line between quality craftmanship and a POS". and that is the truth. Learn the craft ,it is a skill that takes patience and practice,let me know how I can help you...............................DC


----------



## flatsmaster14

You can also buy very small zip ties that are small enough to put on a micro #4 and still have room to work


----------



## baytownboy

Back in the 60's when I had The Rod Store on old Hi-way 146 in Baytown, I would use small pieces of a rubber band tied with one wrap and knot to hold the guides on, worked for me.


----------



## Bullard International

I never hear this mentioned much on the forums, but I know I have a few customers that use the rubber bands that are used in the dental field with braces. I got some from my dentist and I found them to be very easy to use. I don't test rods, so I don't know how they would work for that, but I know they are nice and tight. 

I always appreciate it when you guys give us ideas to help make things a bit easier and this one works well for me.


----------



## [email protected]

I used the hot glue idea along with sanding down the tip of the guide. I was desperate to get the remaining guides on and got a little glue on the top of the guide foot which made the wraps look a little sloppy but they held strong so I will mark this up as a learning experience and move on. As long as the rod looks halfway decent and works then I will be happy for my first attempt. I really can't get over how good that blank is for 8 bucks, I really can't wait to use that rod, It will be just as good as my 200 dollar kistler rod I have and is better than all my other rods I have so I am very happy. On my next rod I'm sure the wraps will be much cleaner and it will look as good as it works. I think I am done working on my rod for the night so tomorrow I just have to add some trim bands and a fish decal and some other wraps near the decal and I will be ready for cp and finish. I like the small rubber band idea a lot and will try to find some very small rubber bands to help my guides stay in place while wrapping. Tape works for testing but it's too wide to hold the small guides in place for wrapping. Thanks to all for the help along the way, special thanks to Lance and Bullard International for their help and I can't wait to post pics of my first finished rod. It won't be nothing special looks wise but it will work fantastic, the fish don't care how pretty your rod is thank goodness lol.


----------



## ranger519

Duco cement. You can get it at any hardware stores. less that $4.00 a tube and it allows you to move the guide if its a little off after wrapping. Garry Land shared this at one of the Tri-State gatherings and it has been a great thing to know.


----------



## Bullard International

ranger519 said:


> Duco cement. You can get it at any hardware stores. less that $4.00 a tube and it allows you to move the guide if its a little off after wrapping. Garry Land shared this at one of the Tri-State gatherings and it has been a great thing to know.


Thanks so much for sharing this. I am going to have to get the info from Gary to share with the SaltyDawg's Gizmos and Gadgets page for the RodCrafters Journal. We share any idea you have that works well with the rest of the community. If anyone has any really great ideas be sure to forward them to: [email protected] 
We always give the person credit in the magazine so get get noticed for your contribution and submit a tip!


----------



## ranger519

ranger519 said:


> Duco cement. You can get it at any hardware stores. less that $4.00 a tube and it allows you to move the guide if its a little off after wrapping. Garry Land shared this at one of the Tri-State gatherings and it has been a great thing to know.


Another fine quality of this is that it provides the guide foot a little cushion, but most of all it already fills the tunnel under the guide foot.


----------



## [email protected]

I will have to get some duco cement at the hardware store tomorrow when I'm getting some denatured alcohol for my burner. I am proud to say that the rod is almost finished, just put the second coat of cp on it and tomorrow it will get a coat of rod finish and it will be DONE! At some points I thought I'd never finish it but it feels so good to finally have it ready for epoxy. I think it looks great for my first rod and it should work even better. Will post pics tomorrow after it is finished. Our boat is in the shop but can't wait to get out on the water and put the rod to work. Thanks again for all the help.


----------



## richg99

Always wanted to try to build a rod. Where can I get blanks for $8.00? it would be a good starting point for me. I have 7 grandchildren. Can't tell how many of them would use rods for a few years, though. R


----------



## Bubba_Bruiser

I know I am digging this one up from a month ago, but just offering my .02. I have switched to the smallest tie wraps I can get. I tried the rubber bands and still put them on the rod for contingency after I have static tested the rod. Or if I am using a recipe for a popular model blank. But I set the tie wrap a little further up then its final position, slide the guide under it, and slide it in place. I wrap up on the foot to the tie wrap, and then clip it off with toe nail clippers (They are clean, no jam to effect the epoxy). Finger nail clippers tend to be too narrow to cut the tie wrap. I usually secure the wrap and guide foot with my thumb when cutting.

Here is a picture of a rod secured with tie wraps. I know it is a spiral wrap, but it works the same on conventional wraps. I use the approx 5# bottle of Tide for my weight and I hook the line line off for tension purposes. When I am done, I crank the drag down and give her all she's got Captain. The only thing I worry about is the line breaking and never finding my micros until I step on one in the middle of the night. I have started doing all my rods like this though. It sure beats my other engineering attempts for static testing.


----------



## [email protected]

I am going to run by ace hardware when they open to see if they have small zip ties, otherwise I know Swampland has the tiny zip ties for micro guides that will work great. I am doing my first spiral rod right now so it is very important I static test this rod to get it right. So far I have my 4 guides that do the spiral and they are about 5.25 inches apart but then when I get to my second 180 guide I have a space that is 6 inches apart and I'm worried that is too far a gap between the guides. I am wondering if having the spacing between my first and second 180 guides longer than the spacing between the spiral guides will be a problem. I guess I will know here in the next few hours when I do the static test. Thanks for all the replies, yall are tons of help to me and I think because of the support here on this forum I have picked up rod building much more quickly than I would have figuring out all my questions on my own.


----------



## pg542

[email protected] said:


> I used the hot glue idea along with sanding down the tip of the guide........


......Saltydawg was spot on mentioning guide foot preparation....You'll probably need to do more than just sanding. A little Dremel grinding will most likely be needed. The idea of foot prep is to make a smooth transition ramp from the blank up onto the guide foot. It helps the foot "fit" the blank. It makes for much easier wrapping and looks better when finished. Plenty of how-to on youtube describing this important but often overlooked step. Check it out ......as for me, I use surgical tubing on heavier guides and dental bands on small/tiny stuff. You should probably learn how to do "static deflection testing" for optimum guide spacing. Generic charts can get you close, but through SDT you can get much closer. Once you get it spaced right, you can record the data and use it if you ever build on that blank again.....


----------



## devil1824

Lots of great info here. Thanks!


----------



## Bill Stevens

*Micro Attachments*

James: The use of micro guides presents some unique challenges for attachment to blanks prior to wrapping.

What specific guide and size are you using. Many of the new features on the Amtak, Batson, Fuji and Kigan micro guides alter the way micro guides can be installed. All micro rod builders develop procedures to attach micro guides in an efficient manner. If the guide spacing is a known, the NO ATTACHMENT of any kind is used prior to wrapping by many high volume micro rod builders. Several micro guide manufacturers of micro guide have improved products and specifically request the no grinding of the guide foot is done which may break the coating barrier and increase the possibility of stress corrosion cracking of the stainless steel part. These guides can be ramped with OO or A thread without any gaps pulling high tension.

Do you incorporate the Forhan Locking Wrap. If you use the Forhan final tuning is difficult without torquing the frame. The Forhan wrap does not improve the pull test on all guide frames. Ask to see pull test data.

When is the time you do the final "tuning" prior to finish application.

How many rods do you do at a time - or how many times are the rods moved or handled from the time you attach guides until finish application. They can be moved or bumped accidentally.

What is the intended purpose of the rod - what is the pullout test rating of your attachment. If maximum pull out is desired , the tunnel, if one is present, needs to be filled with finish to prevent forward movement. For these rods, if the tunnel is blocked with hot melt and seal broken due to later alignment it can not be filled with the harder and stronger finish. This seal breakage also introduced a path for water invasion from the risers on some guide frames.

Many custom builders develop a procedure that is comfortable for them using tape, dental orthodontic rings, O-Rings, mono-filament and I guess even bubble gum.

Swampland markets a small tie wrap for use attaching micro guides - not available in hardware or craft stores, that allows placement, tuning, movement and wrapping of micro guides in a secure manner without filling the tunnel prior to finish application.

James, if you talk to Lance today about the reamers mention this post and ask him how he uses tie wraps and what you need - learn how it is done and you will save time and a lot of frustration or give me a call and I will walk you through the process - there are some tricks that will keep you from hunting lost micro guides on the shop floor.

If you want to learn more about the no attachment procedure use the Contact Us Link on the Swampland site. Simply to hard to try to write a reasonable procrdure - really fast, probably the best for someone who builds a lot of micro rods.


----------



## Jerry L. West

That can be hard to do on some of the new rod blanks.


----------



## pg542

I use the surgical tubing or dental rubber bands. They hold the guide secure while static deflection and cast testing. Ty-wraps are another great option when setting up heavier guides. Saltydawg is spot on regarding guide foot prep. It's an important step sometimes overlooked by the beginner. I would think that any sort of glue would tend to work against you when the guide wraps are complete. Before cp and finish, I will "eyeball" from different angles to be sure the guides are straight and true to the reelseat/tiptop. (Having a reel chucked up in the reelseat can make this task much easier.) Any little adjustments that may be needed, can be done easily since the guide will move slightly under the guide wrap, even if you use a Forhan lock wrap on single foots. (you really should use a Forhan lock, btw). Once you have wrapped over a guide foot that has been glued down, I would think any more "adjustment" would be impossible.... Like almost every aspect of this craft, there are many ways to do things. This just happens to be the way I do it........just some thoughts.


----------

