# Deer Lease - How high will they go......



## Bukmstr (Nov 12, 2004)

I was looking through the Houston Chronicle classified yesterday and saw a lease member ship for $13,500.00 per member for a South Texas Golden triangle Ranch! I am thinking I will soon not be able to deer hunt in Texas in the near future.....


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## catch 5 (Apr 10, 2006)

Yeah it's getting pretty out of hand with all these high fence ranches. It really gives me a bad attutude towards it all. Some idiot who has a ton of money and never hunted can just up and say, " hey, I think I would like to shoot a huge deer." Then he can go pay 20k + and kill a bigger deer than I have ever had a chance at and I have been hunting for 20+ years. Thats why I stay on my low fence lease and strictly bow hunt. I get more satisfaction out of that style of hunting and taking an average deer opposed to the high fence thing. Just my 2 cents. I guess you can sense a little frustration on my part.


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## elkarcher (Jun 5, 2006)

With the cost of a prime lease getting outragous it won't be long and it will be a rich mans sport just like it is in Europe.Then they wonder why the interest in hunting has dropped off the last 10-15 years.By pricing the regular man out of hunting they are helping the antis.You have to respect the man who works hard to be able to pay for the opportunity to take his kids hunting and fishing so they grow up with a love for the outdoors.The way its going now imagine what it will cost when our kids are older..


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## Aggiewes (Jan 10, 2005)

If it keeps rising as you say and becomes a rich man only sport (who knows), there will be an economic struggle for those manufacturers whose target audience is not the rich... This will be interesting (and sad) to watch.


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## Syncerus (Oct 18, 2005)

Well, economics is an interesting thing. The prices will keep going up until the market can't or won't pay for it. At $13k, I can go to Africa. As far as I'm concerned, I'd rather go to Africa than shoot a feed-lot whitetail any day. Of course, there are many who feel differently about things than I do, and they might very well find value in a $13k whitetail.

That said, there will never be a huge market for the $13k whitetail; by it's very price, you end up with a very limited number of possible customers. 

People criticize European hunting for it's expense and elitism, but the hunters willingness to pay outrageous money to hunt is all that's kept game in Europe from being totally exterminated by encroaching development.

All that said, I wish that I could find a great deer lease for cheap, just like everyone else.

Syncerus


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## bullred123 (Apr 16, 2005)

That's why we are headed to kentucky this year


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## deebo (May 22, 2004)

Less than a $500 license for a week of hunting on more land than you could ever cover in your lifetime in Colorado.....


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## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

As was said, the high prices will stay high or go higher as long as there are those willing to pay the price. There is a larger market for South Texas deer than you would think and that's easy to figure...have you tried to find an opening on a lease in South Texas lately that isn't already full? Even those charging 4 figures are having no problems filling up.

But it's the land owner's right to charge whatever he can get to lease his property and I can't argue that. It's also the hunter's right to refuse to pay. If everyone sat out a year in boycott of the high prices we'd see a lowering of lease prices next year. But noooo, can't miss a deer season. Problem right now is there are way too many people with too much money who don't bat an eye at paying those high prices so they do.

Oh well, glad we own our land. Jackson County ain't South Texas but we sure have fun.

TH


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## Kyle 1974 (May 10, 2006)

Trouthunter said:


> As was said, the high prices will stay high or go higher as long as there are those willing to pay the price. There is a larger market for South Texas deer than you would think and that's easy to figure...have you tried to find an opening on a lease in South Texas lately that isn't already full? Even those charging 4 figures are having no problems filling up.
> 
> But it's the land owner's right to charge whatever he can get to lease his property and I can't argue that. It's also the hunter's right to refuse to pay. If everyone sat out a year in boycott of the high prices we'd see a lowering of lease prices next year. But noooo, can't miss a deer season. Problem right now is there are way too many people with too much money who don't bat an eye at paying those high prices so they do.
> 
> ...


I don't think the main issue are guys like us that happen to have 10 or 15 grand to spend on a deer lease, it's guys like EXXON and Valero, and 100's of other companies that use a over priced deer lease as a [email protected]#@# right off on their taxes under "customer entertainment".

granted, there are a few lucky folks out there that are fortunate enough for a south texas deer lease price to never be a problem paying....

I agree with the comment about going to africa though....why pay the same for a protein fed, genetically altered freak, when you can go to africa and shoot realistic examples (PLURAL EXAMPLES) of wildlife...that's actually WILD


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## Charles Helm (Oct 22, 2004)

Kyle 1974 said:


> I agree with the comment about going to africa though....why pay the same for a protein fed, genetically altered freak, when you can go to africa and shoot realistic examples (PLURAL EXAMPLES) of wildlife...that's actually WILD


There are plenty of places in Africa with high fences and a very active market in wildlife. For the money, I would rather go back to Africa but always do the research to be sure it is the hunt you want. There are still lots and lots of wild places to go in Africa, just like there are lots of commercial fenced operations there, some of which feature game that is not native to the area. I have even heard of places buying game the week before and turning it loose to be hunted - but I have not seen this myself so take it for what it is worth. Buyer beware in Africa or Texas!


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## jferrell1211 (May 18, 2006)

*no lease...*

this is my son, deer killed on public land in east Texas last year, $15 permit.....hard hunting, no 4 wheelers, no permanent stands, not very attractive to "moneyed" hunters...but...a very nice deer......

you don't have to have a lease to hunt.....


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## Charles Helm (Oct 22, 2004)

jferrell1211 said:


> this is my son, deer killed on public land in east Texas last year, $15 permit.....hard hunting, no 4 wheelers, no permanent stands, not very attractive to "moneyed" hunters...but...a very nice deer......
> 
> you don't have to have a lease to hunt.....


Very nice buck!


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## Ledge (Feb 4, 2005)

Great Post jferrell211. You are correct, there are lots of public places to hunt that produce.

But man it is pricey to get a on a decent lease.


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## jferrell1211 (May 18, 2006)

> But man it is pricey to get a on a decent lease.


exactly why we hunt public lands....


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## DeerTexas (Dec 5, 2004)

There are plenty of affordable leases available in Texas. You've just gotta know where to look and be quick to act. Hesitate and it will be leased by someone else. $13,000 leases are the exception, not the rule.


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## Redfishr (Jul 26, 2004)

jferrell1211 said:


> exactly why we hunt public lands....


Thats alot easier to do when you live near the public land.
Of course ya'll are probably good hunters and that helps alot.
That is one hell of an east texas deer..........I'm very impressed and I'm not impressed easily.................congrats


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## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

Nice jferrell!!! Awesome deer and I agree with you 100%. 

IMO, it's sour grapes if you think you should be able to hunt on a trophy private ranch for cheaper than the land owner wants to sell his leasing rights for and people are willing to pay. If you can't hunt South Texas, go to central, north, east. Because you can't hunt record book deer or agree on a high fence means the end of hunting? Sour grapes.


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## Redfishr (Jul 26, 2004)

DeerTexas said:


> There are plenty of affordable leases available in Texas. You've just gotta know where to look and be quick to act. Hesitate and it will be leased by someone else. $13,000 leases are the exception, not the rule.


The problem with the majority of the once affordable leases in texas is that every local boy in each area is now a lease broker.He leases it for $1 an acre then turns around and subs it for 10 an acre.
Although I know that some folks handle their own leasing.


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## deebo (May 22, 2004)

Hunting has also become way too much of a "mine is bigger than yours" sport. Hunting to me is way more about time outdoors, and challenging yourself to outwit the animal you are after. Hunting has placed too much importance on the end result, and what you hang on the wall, and not about the hunting...that is what it is called after all. The experience has more or less become a non-issue. I am not saying it is wrong to go shoot a huge deer or anything, but we have really taken the hunting out of hunting. We have a little place out in the hill country, and i will work all seaosn, hoping for a ~120 8 pt. That is about the best we will see, and that is a true trophy that anyone should be very proud of, because of the hunting it took. 

Sorry, I know this has been said about a bazillion times, but i just had too......


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## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

deebo said:


> Sorry, I know this has been said about a bazillion times, but i just had too......


Ha! me too.. I usually post nothing on these topics anymore but all I see when I read the griping is someone with further issues than hunting itself... can't have the pie in the sky so they criticize. Work your arse off to achieve it then one day or die trying.. that's my motto. I aint asking for anyone to give up anything for my lacking (i.e. lease price is to high for my budget, you should charge less).


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## catch 5 (Apr 10, 2006)

Well said deebo. I have to agree


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## kenforu (Mar 16, 2006)

This thread goes right along with mine about landowners and their willingness to give in to the guy with the deeper pockets this is what is driving the price up. I was just kicked off a lease that was 45,000 a year for 12 members 3750.00 per member and I had some corporate hunters on the lease and they decided to make the land owner a proposal for more money and he took it and gave the rest of us 30 days to remove our belongings. It's all about the money. Good luck this year everyone and don't let it get to you it only about THE MONEY::::::::::::::


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## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

I found this rather fitting for this post to prove the dollars they are getting. LOL Hey, if you wanna pay it then go for it, not me. 

633 acres at $60K = $94 an acre??? plus more for turkey and exotics? HOLY MOLY.. LOL

*THE RANCH IS CURRENTLY LEASE FOR $60,000 PER YEAR FOR 5 YEARS, THEY ARE ONLY ALLOWED TO KILL 8 WHITETAIL BUCKS THAT HAVE TO BE MATURE, 10 POINT OR BETTER BUCKS; 20 HOGS, DOVE, QUAIL AND ANY WHITETAIL DOES THAT NEED TO BE CULLED TO KEEP THE 1:1 BUCK TO DOE RATIO. THEY ARE ALLOWED TO USE THE HOUSE. THE EXOTICS AND TURKEY ARE NOT INCLUDED IN THE $60,000 PER YEAR HUNTING LEASE. THE TURKEY AND EXOTICS COULD BRING IN ANOTHER $10-15,000 PER YEAR IF OWNER CHOSE TO ALLOW THE TENANTS TO HUNT THEM.*

http://www.southtexasranches.com/633.htm


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## DeerTexas (Dec 5, 2004)

InfamousJ said:


> IMO, it's sour grapes if you think you should be able to hunt on a trophy private ranch for cheaper than the land owner wants to sell his leasing rights for and people are willing to pay. If you can't hunt South Texas, go to central, north, east.


That's absolutely dead nuts perfect.


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## DeerTexas (Dec 5, 2004)

Redfishr said:


> The problem with the majority....


Not the majority. A few are that way, but again, they are the exception rather than the rule. There are still plenty of private TX landowners to deal directly with.


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## jferrell1211 (May 18, 2006)

the public land hunting is harder than lease hunting...no camp houses\cabins....no 4 wheelers...no feeders.....but then....I like hunting like that.....it thins the hunting herd too!!! a lot of folks still sign up but few actually show up!!! but...I saw someone on this site that had a sig that was a quote from Thoreau...it went something like this..."some people fish all their life and never realize that it's not the fish that they are after..." the same holds true for the hunting.....sometimes it's just good to be out there.....of course we all want a trophy....but getting him the hard way is really rewarding......I remember one morning last season sitting on the ground on public land---crawled up in a thickett, hiding....the sun was just beginning to lighten the sky a little, I could see maybe 20 yards---and I looked up--heard a noise---in 5 trees, all within a few feet of me -- there was a squirrel in each tree--coming down the tree--each one head first--in almost perfect time---like a morning symphony---I never moved--they never saw me---it was sweet. That morning it didn't matter if I shot anything........

ps....I know some good places to hunt.....


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## SEtxDUkiller (Feb 1, 2006)

South Texas isn't the only area in Texas that is home to big whitetails. If you dont want to pay the big $$$ then hunt the Panhandle. Panhandle whitetails will outweigh south texas bucks and the big boys up there are natural free range whitetail.


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## Swampus (Sep 1, 2005)

Mexico is a good thang!


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## kweber (Sep 20, 2005)

this may ruffle a few feathers, but Texas Trophy magazine has ruined deer hunting for the average guy in Texas. without that damned magazine there would be few high fences other than exotic ranches. gotten to be an "I can spend more than you" contest. when deer are monitored and held in reserve for that "special" hunter, it's just a bank account ****** contest. my 2 cents.


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## Kyle 1974 (May 10, 2006)

kweber said:


> this may ruffle a few feathers, but Texas Trophy magazine has ruined deer hunting for the average guy in Texas. without that damned magazine there would be few high fences other than exotic ranches. gotten to be an "I can spend more than you" contest. when deer are monitored and held in reserve for that "special" hunter, it's just a bank account ****** contest. my 2 cents.


right on Kweber.... When I talk to people from other states and even other countries, and explain the way that many high fenced south texas ranches charge BY THE INCH of horn....they can't beleive it....Seems like it would take the fun out of it, when you have to balance your checkbook before you pull the trigger.

like I said before, maybe SOME people like hunting deer that are confined within a high fence, genetically altered, protein pumped, freaks of nature....all I can say is, to each their own.


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## BayTex (May 31, 2006)

kweber said:


> this may ruffle a few feathers, but Texas Trophy magazine has ruined deer hunting for the average guy in Texas. without that damned magazine there would be few high fences other than exotic ranches. gotten to be an "I can spend more than you" contest. when deer are monitored and held in reserve for that "special" hunter, it's just a bank account ****** contest. my 2 cents.


I don't know that TTHA ruined it, but they darn sure helped!!! I finally let my membership lapse this past year, after about 12 years, simply due to the BULLS**T stories about how these people worked thier butts off trying to get an opportunity at this 180+ class deer they've been seeing all year. I'd rather see more of the average type hunter that really did work their butt off over the last 5-9 years improving a place to where it's capable of producing 130-140 class deer. But then again, that wouldn't sell memberships. Plus the magazine is filled with ad after ad after ad after ad...


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## SEtxDUkiller (Feb 1, 2006)

*Taking the "H" out of TTHA*

The article that ruined TTHA for me is the one titled "A Little Work for A Big Reward" that was in the last issue. TTHA definition of work was compiling a spreadsheet comparing prices, distances to drive, inches of antler. Complete bs and everthing in my opinion that hunting should NOT be. So the guy goes on to write the check and kill a huge buck. The "H" doesnt belong in TTHA.


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## NW80 (Apr 26, 2006)

I've read almost the whole thread. It's interesting to me to see other people arriving at the same conclusions that I raeched about a year ago. The ramifications of greed are the beginning of the end for Native Texans hunting in their own state. Unless of course your are a member of the "Lucky Sperm" club or independently wealthy!

I told J.Johnston 5 years ago to his face on a deer hunt in Old Mexico that he had single handedly ruined deer hunting in Texas. He of course didn't understand that by making it a competetive sport it raised the value of the deer thus the price, etc. I predicted to him this exact scenario and guess what? It going to get worse!
I've spent my whole life (50 yrs) hunting deer and manageing deer in Texas and I'm going "to get to" shoot does and spikes next year. It hurts me to think that I used to guide people and decide which Mule Deer they'd shoot and now I' relegated to listening to some rich turd brag about an animal he has NO idea about!


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## copperhead (Mar 15, 2005)

.........and this is why I no longer hunt deer in Texas, I buy a license so I can hunt squirrels, hogs, and varmints. As for deer hunting, I take my money to another state where I can really hunt and the dollar goes alot further. I have to agree with NW80, a few people have ruined it for the majority of us. We used to have family leases that we went to year after year but that tradition died out a few years ago, now my son will not be able share in the joy and camarderie of a hunting camp with family and friends like I have and for that I'm truly sorry.


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## NW80 (Apr 26, 2006)

Not to mention the effect that corporate leases and package hunts are going to have on the economy in the small towns that depend on the increase in trade during Deer Season!
None of those "non-lease" hunters are going to spend a dime in the respective towns. They don't have to- it's all supplied in the package! And do you think corporate groups are going to shop in Falfurrias , Freer , Pearsall,San Saba, Llano or Sonora? Hell no they are going to buy groceries, liquor,gas,corn etc. wholesale!!!!


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## SEtxDUkiller (Feb 1, 2006)

In the long run the market will always find equilibrium. As long as there are people willing to pay the high price then it will stay high. The demand for hunting ground will only increase. The only thing that would bring down prices would be a complete economic depression (lets hope for the best though). That being said, there is not a big enough percentage of hunters willing to pay $13,000 a gun to send the price that high. That is definetley the minority.


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## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

So do all of you want private land owning to go away and everything belong to the public? Are you saying the private land owners should be told what they can and can't do with their lease rights, etc.?



NW80 said:


> I've spent my whole life (50 yrs) hunting deer and manageing deer in Texas and I'm going "to get to" shoot does and spikes next year.


Do these land owners owe something to you far more than what you are going "to get to" do?


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## BayTex (May 31, 2006)

InfamousJ said:


> So do all of you want private land owning to go away and everything belong to the public? Are you saying the private land owners should be told what they can and can't do with their lease rights, etc.?
> 
> Do these land owners owe something to you far more than what you are going "to get to" do?


Please don't start reading between the lines, as I don't think any one of us have said that at all.... 
I think that it's just because the State of Texas gets so much positive advertising. Look at the amount of out of state licenses that are sold here each year. I'm sure the majority of these people pay quite a pretty penny to hunt here, and who can fault them for that?!?! I haven't seen anyone fault the land owner either. 
It's a product of demand vs supply. The demand is continously growing, where supply is only getting smaller!


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## SEtxDUkiller (Feb 1, 2006)

My family owns the ranch I hunt and has for year so I dont fall into that category, but I do sympathize with those being snuffed out because of money. But whining will do no good. That is why I don't hunt in South texas. There are big bucks in other place where hunting isnt so commercialized.


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## kweber (Sep 20, 2005)

the landowner is just going with the supply and demand. besides, alot have sold to big-money intrests from large cities. most hi-fence places are newly purchaced. can't blame a guy for selling for 2-5 times more than ag value. a drive thru So. Tx. will prove my point. look at all the fancy gates with some BS spanish name or slogan on the top.


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## NW80 (Apr 26, 2006)

"Infamous", I didn't intend at all that I am owed anything! I'm simply saying that it is REAL hard to accept that something I used to "live for" has been taken away from me based on monetary reasons. I've hunted and killed deer in Texas for 43 yrs. and it is hard to sit back listen to a bunch of "knowitalls", who read a book, talk about their "hunt" and know that you've actually passed up bigger deer than they would ever see - unless they payed someone to show it to them!

It jusyt hurts - thats all!


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## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

I hear ya.. lost my place of $600 a year for 20+ years to a new landowner from this big city I live in now. Up until the place I was on sold, I watched the other family places next to us get bought by dr's and such and high fences put up cutting off alot of our good hunting locations. Everything progresses whether it be positive or negative. It was a negative for me but a positive for the new owner having his own place. I am not sour about it, I sucked it up, kept my memories, and trudged off to other places I had goals of one day doing.


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## wellconnected (May 30, 2005)

I feel that you have to work super hard these days to find a decent lease and even harder to keep it. There are plenty of affordable leases out there (even in South Texas) but coming across them is becoming extremely hard to do. I truly believe that you are not going to find an afforable, decent lease in the news paper or the internet. The last line is ONLY my oppinion. Most of what you see there tends to give people a false impression of what leases are going for. I freaking ask anyone and everyone I know or come across if they lease or if they know of any leases. I was very lucky last season to stumble across a lease that has been my paradise for 1,750 per gun in South Texas. I found it through a friend. I will post leases in the hunting section of this forum as I come across them as long as the site admin does not have a problem with it. The only thing I can say is quit being a pessimist and start being a realist.


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## NW80 (Apr 26, 2006)

Afriend of mine just lost a lease that he and 14 other guys had been on for several years and had made several capital improvements (eg. modular homes, all weather roads, ice makers, cold storage and about 50 bird dog pens).

They were paying $11/acre and a corporation offered $20/acre for 18,000 acres! Needless to say, my buddy and his friends are sh#t out of luck!


PIGS GET FAT / HOGS GET SLAUGHTERED!!!!!


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## Downandout (Dec 24, 2004)

IMO, too many people OVERPAY way more than a lease is really worth.


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## bluefin (Aug 16, 2005)

Guys,

South Texas hunting will continue to go up in price and will eventually be bought out by corporations. S TX is the best place for hunting big deer without freezing your (their clients) butts off. It's a great write off for corps. to entertain clients. That's why the Super Bowl is held in a domed stadium every year - so the big money folks don't have to get cold to see the 'big game'. And I don't get what the crying is all about. I see pictures of deer coming from all parts of the state with huge racks. S. TX imo is really lazy hunting anyways. Not too many areas of the country where you can sit in a blind and worry about sweating and then pick and choose from 10 deer at a sitting. So if you're crying about the money then you must be really upset every time you see a guy driving a car that costs twice what yours did for the same 8 cylinders or drive by a house that cost 10 times what yours did for the same number of bedrooms.


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## activescrape (Jan 8, 2006)

I think the original point is well taken. The continual spiking in lease prices is shrinking the amount of hunters in the woods. The "everyman" types that want to take their kids out for a chance at a deer, any deer. These are that same people you see at the cafe at 11am eating breakfast, browsing the hardware store for 'whatever". gassing up at the quik stop and getting a few lottery tickets on the way out. That is the aspect of deer hunting in Texas that is losing steam while these other "styles" of hunting expand.


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## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

There are much cheaper alternatives to hunting than a south texas high fenced ranch or any ranch for that matter where leasing is concerned, period. $100 does, invites from friends that do pay because it is a top piority for them, exotic goat hunts, anything. If the number of hunters is shrinking I cannot see it attributing to the cost of a south texas lease or a lease in general. I contribute it to the social times, pressures on everyday life, working much and being tired, and I'm sure some laziness if a person decides not to take their kids hunting anymore.


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## Charles Helm (Oct 22, 2004)

InfamousJ said:


> If the number of hunters is shrinking I cannot see it attributing to the cost of a south texas lease or a lease in general. I contribute it to the social times, pressures on everyday life, working much and being tired...


I think this is right -- with more people in the cities and with so many activities organized for the kids there is less time and inclination, especially with two working parents and the nine-to-five job becoming just a myth. To be fair this goes back a generation to some degree and those who did not hunt as kids are less likely to start as adults or take their kids. That is one place where a lease can be a great beneifit if it lets you introduce new hunters to the sport. Most people and their kids are so busy with soccer, baseball, basketball, church activities, school activities, that there is little time for anything else. I have tried to take people in the last few years but the schedules never worked out.



InfamousJ said:


> ..and I'm sure some laziness if a person decides not to take their kids hunting anymore.


Now you are talking about me again! Actually I have a plan to get my girls out this year without a lease and we will have a good time. I just need to put more time into the preparation for the hunt -- target practice, etc.


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## Redfishr (Jul 26, 2004)

SEtxDUkiller said:


> South Texas isn't the only area in Texas that is home to big whitetails. If you dont want to pay the big $$$ then hunt the Panhandle. Panhandle whitetails will outweigh south texas bucks and the big boys up there are natural free range whitetail.


The rich boys in dallas found the panhandle a long time ago and the price is steadily going up...................alot of it is 10 and acre now.


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## BigBuck (Mar 2, 2005)

*Lease*

I agree with most people on this thread. It is a shame where trophy hunting is going in Texas. I quit TTHA a number of years ago when the advertising turned to Breeder Bucks and stocker does. Just like cattle. I have no problem with a high fence, it really allows the hunters to manage the herd. However, I really do not like the artificial breeding of does to imported bucks, buying "straws" for thousands of dollars each, etc... I have been most fortunate, we have hunted a reasonable hill country lease for the last 23 years (low fence). I passed a 150 buck last year, because there was a 4.5 yr old 6pt. with him that I wanted to kill. We killed a 168 last year. We have worked hard passing young deer and killing culls to get where we are. If our rancher decides next year he can get more money than we are paying (he can) and sends us packing, I will just know it was a great run and move on. Crying all the way. I do not know what I would do from there. I cannot afford most leases in Texas, and have gotten spoiled hunting a well-managed lease for many years. Maybe save my money and go on a cull hunt every other year or something. Anyway, if you have a good lease, treat the ranch and rancher right, make friends, it may save your lease when the money comes knocking.
BB


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## Charles Helm (Oct 22, 2004)

Redfishr said:


> The rich boys in dallas found the panhandle a long time ago and the price is steadily going up...................alot of it is 10 and acre now.


That certainly seems to be the case this side of Abilene for places like Shackelford and Throckmorton Counties. Once you get a bit further north-west there are still places (last time I checked) closer to $4/acre, but at at around 1,000 acres/gun.

Location will drive up the price, and being close to DFW has that effect.

I saw a 66,000 acre part of a ranch sell for (best guess) $165/acre or less and then get sold in pieces for $250-450/acre if my memory serves me. I still have the realtor's brochures around somewhere.

The biggest problem I see with that country between Abilene and Lubbock is that the deer population density is not high enough to take the numbers of deer that will be killed as it gets chopped up into small parcels and still maintain a quality herd, except maybe for places along the major drainages.

Five or six years ago you could find land out there for less than $200 an acre but I think those days are mostly gone and the remaining larger ranches will get cut up into "recreational" properties at higher prices. That will continue to put pressure on the wildlife. Of course, you do not have to go back too far to a time when there were no significant whitetail populations out there either.


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## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

Charles Helm said:


> The biggest problem I see with that country between Abilene and Lubbock is that the deer population density is not high enough to take the numbers of deer that will be killed as it gets chopped up into small parcels and still maintain a quality herd, except maybe for places along the major drainages.


With breeding you can fill a ranch up in 5 years or less ready for hunting. Of course that is after erecting a high fence around it.


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## Charles Helm (Oct 22, 2004)

InfamousJ said:


> With breeding you can fill a ranch up in 5 years or less ready for hunting. Of course that is after erecting a high fence around it.


In that case you can take the "supplemental" out of "supplemental feeding" and just call it feeding!:wink:


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## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

Here's a place for you, Charles. I'm sure they'd take an even 1 mil. Go buy it and I'll help fill up a feeder or two.









http://www.busbeeranches.com/809Schleicher.htm

http://www.busbeeranches.com/Availableprops.htm (bottom right description)


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## Charles Helm (Oct 22, 2004)

InfamousJ said:


> Here's a place for you, Charles. I'm sure they'd take an even 1 mil. Go buy it and I'll help fill up a feeder or two.


Why haggle with them? You pay the $1,000,000 and I'll kick in the $31,475.00. Then I'll fill the feeders.

I passed on one of those $150/acre places I talked about and doubt I will have the chance to buy anything near that size again. At least the money I did not spend went for a good cause -- my kids can stay in school.:birthday2


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## John Mills (Mar 25, 2006)

I was getting a deer processed and was talking to the owner of the place. He took me to the back and showed me a huge deer head. He told me that a kid shot it, and that the kids grandpa was rich and paid 12 thousand dollars on a high fense area to kill this deer. I was like what the heck, I wouldnt pay 12 thousand dollars to kill a deer.


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## TXDRAKE (Jun 24, 2004)

Don't mean to Hi-jack the thread but, Well, fellas heres my .02 and believe me I have been at the heart of many a heated discussion about high fencing and the price of hunting in Texas and TTHA. I am a true, blue low fence hunter and will never knowingly hunt a high fenced operation and guess what, I'm a lifetime (*embarrassed) *member of TTHA and became one before the Breeder operation advertisements and the rest of the BS I see in the magazine and Oh' did you happen to know that they also have an assistance program (Actually give monetary support) to help landowners purchase high fencing for their properties. I doubt seriously if I could get my lifetime membership money back that I payed for it as I would love to throw it in their face and tell them to get F--ked. If I could get a quarter of it back I would take that and still tell them to shove it and have actually thought of getting a lawyer involved because I felt misled after a year or so of seeing the contents of the magazine. I currently throw each magazine away without opening them as I figure thats the best way to get back at them in my own little way from a seemingly self inflicted wound. I became the most disgusted when I recieved one of the magazines and on the cover were three beautiful Whitetail bucks and after studying the picture in detail, I noticed, too my amazement that they all had EAR TAGS!!!!! I was then instantly furious, how dare them portray my beloved Whitetail deer as mere domesticated cattle. Of course, I instantly wrote a Lengthy letter to them as to why I no longer wanted anything to do with the orginization, its people, or any part of it and demanded my money back and of course they never responded back. Have any ideas, fellas? :hairout:

I have been fighting these the high fencing and high dollar issue's in Texas for awhile now and its going to take the majority of regular joe hunters in Texas to make a change, if their can be one. First and foremost is the issue of the commisioners that are appointed to the Texas Parks and Wildlife Board by the Governor. Do a little back ground check on them and you will see that each is rather wealthy in their own right and I am sure that the blue collar working man's hunting future is at the top thier list of to do's, right along with securing their breeding rights permits and their managed lands permits. How about lets get a few Blue collar gents and ladies on that board and then I bet a few things would change!!! :dance:

The Last thing I want to discuss is a little bit of confusion  on my part as a citizen of this Great State of Texas. The State of Texas says by law that the wildlife of Texas is owned by the People of this Great State. So exactly how is it that someone can take and fence in (basically remove that animal from use by the said owners) from 1 to however many Publicly owned animals and not be arrested for Theft of Public Property, poaching, etc.? If I went out and shot one (1) Whitetail buck, I would hopefully be arrested and I would then have to pay a fine for breaking the law and THEN I would pay a restitution fee for the replacement cost of what that animal is worth to the people of the State of Texas and then have a criminal record and be branded a poacher and not be able to hunt legally for a length of time. But a wealthy land barron can legally entrap and remove as many animals (Deer, Turkeys, Javelinas, Badgers, fox, etc.) that can be contained by the high fence from the publics use just as I did by shooting and killing that buck, but, he does not have to account for nor does he have to pay for a restitution for each of those animals (Deer, Turkeys, Javelinas, Badgers, fox, etc.) that he has taken away from the public's reach and then he can sale those animals which are the public's property to begin with to the highest bidder and never will he have a criminal record. Have I missed something here? I agree you have the right to do as you wish with your land, but, not with the animals that roam it. You shouldn't be able to impead the normal migration of publicly owned animals. If you want a high fence great but you should have to pay a restitution fee for each animal (Deer, Turkeys, Javelinas, Badgers, fox, etc.) or pay to have each of those animals trapped and removed and released on public land. The old excuse of, Well, I got tired of trying to manage the deer on my land to only have them jump the fence and get shot by my neighbors, well, guess what Mr. land owner those deer aren't yours alone to own and if your neighbor wants to take his Son, Daughter, Grandchild or maybe him or herself out on his land and shoot one of "YOUR" yearling bucks, well, then that's his or her right, because those are all "OUR" Deer. :hairout:

I will step off my soap box now as I feel much better to have gotten that off my chest, AGAIN. LOL


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## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

TXDRAKE, question for you.

Those deer that belong to everyone in Texas...when they're on my property do they belong to me or do they belong to everyone? When they're on your property do they belong to you or to everyone?

TH


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## Capt. Forrest (Jan 5, 2005)

i think it best that I stay out of this discussion, but I do want to comment on one thread.

txdrake,
I completely understand what you are saying about the wealthy landowner putting up a high-fence---thus "trapping" the "State's" wildlife within the confines.

here is another scenario for you to think about (and boy is this one going to get bashed, I can already feel it coming)

hypothetical----- 4000 acres, Webb County, High-fenced (south Texas)

the ranch holds approximately 200 adult deer (1 deer/20 ac)

if the state "owns" the whitetail, but the landowner owns the land---------
then would it be within the landowners rights to assess the state a grazing fee of his choice until they come and pick up "their" deer??????

it will technically be the landowners brush, so he could charge, for example, $100/head/day for the deer grazing on his property. That's only $20000 a day. Let's say it took 1 month, after sending the state the bill for them to get their act together to come "capture" the deer. ($600,000) Will they be able to capture 100%. More than likely not....

Just some food for thought, lol

Capt. Forrest


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## TXDRAKE (Jun 24, 2004)

TH,

Those deer belong to the Public and if they happen to be on your land and your not impeading their migration route then the people of other pieces of surrounding land may have a chance of enjoying those same deer. So as long as they are free roaming and they make it from one side of the state to the other (Hypothetically) then everybodies land that it crossed to get from point A to Point B had the pleasure of owning it. Just as it should be, publicly owned.


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## TXDRAKE (Jun 24, 2004)

Capt. Forrest,

Nope, no assesment should be levied against the state for grazing rights as it was the landowners perogative to "entrap" those animals. If their was a fine and restitution fee asessed for entraping those deer or if the law stated that it would be the land-owners responsiblity to trap and remove all those animals before erecting that high fence then I would venture to say that the land-owner might have different thoughts on that high fencing operation or then again maybe not as some have more money than they know what to do with and that would be just a drop in the bucket. Basically, I look at those land-owners as greedy children that when they feel other children (other land owners) are not playing by the wealthy land owners rules he shows them by gathering all his toys (Deer) and not letting anybody else play with them. How rude!


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## Jfreeman (Nov 3, 2004)

This whole thread is nothing but a bunch of complaining about high prices and high fences. People have been putting up high fences since the 70's, and south texas has always been the most expensive part of texas to hunt. Neither is going to change so ya'll might as well quit whining about it.


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## TXDRAKE (Jun 24, 2004)

Jfreeman,

Your absoloutley right with the exception of the whining part and thats what's great about America. The right to express our opinions and I respect your right to your opinion. I just figure its my opinion as it is yours and others but I don't feel yours is whining nor should you mine. Its just that, my opinion. But, I'll give ya a star for yours :doowapsta . If people get tired of the "whining" then why do they keep reading the threads?


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## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

TXDRAKE said:


> The old excuse of, Well, I got tired of trying to manage the deer on my land to only have them jump the fence and get shot by my neighbors, well, guess what Mr. land owner those deer aren't yours alone to own and if your neighbor wants to take his Son, Daughter, Grandchild or maybe him or herself out on his land and* shoot* one of "YOUR" *yearling bucks*, well, then *that's his or her right*, *because those are all "OUR" Deer*.


Excellent statement to justify ONE of the reasons a landowner protects his right to also use the public deer the way he wants.

I tell ya, it's all sour grapes. I wish I could fly around in my own helicopter like Donald Trump does in my public air space but instead I have to take commercial cheap arifare to do it. It's so depressing.


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## TXDRAKE (Jun 24, 2004)

InfamousJ,

I respect your opinion and it's a good thing that the rich are not able to fence and funnel the Central flyway straight to their private duck blinds as we would play hell trying to harvest those few straggler coots and you would play hell flying that whirly bird with Mr.Trump around all that chain-link.


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## catch 5 (Apr 10, 2006)

Thats another thing. Like trouthunter said, those deer belong to the state. A friend of mine has a ranch that they put a high fence around. I asked him why he wanted a high fence and he said it was because he didnt want anyone shooting "his deer". WHAT?? So you buy a ranch and all of a sudden those deer belong to you? You dont own them.


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## SEtxDUkiller (Feb 1, 2006)

When I say the Panhandle I'm leaning more toward the Childress, Wellington, Shamrock. The land isnt $10 an acre yet there. But with the 180+inch deer that have been being harvested it probably wont be long. Long live low fences and big free ranging whitetail. Makes my heart skip a beat everytime I see one of those 250lb brutes.


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## TXDRAKE (Jun 24, 2004)

Catch 5,

I couldn't agree more!!!


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## Kyle 1974 (May 10, 2006)

catch 5 said:


> Thats another thing. Like trouthunter said, those deer belong to the state. A friend of mine has a ranch that they put a high fence around. I asked him why he wanted a high fence and he said it was because he didnt want anyone shooting "his deer". WHAT?? So you buy a ranch and all of a sudden those deer belong to you? You dont own them.


It seems like originally, high fences found a loophole because they weren't high fencing whitetails, but the exotics...and by golly, the whitetails along with it!

I know for a fact landowners in south texas that have sued people (pipeline companies from my experience) over leaving a gate open and allowing "their" deer to get out. Apparently, the Texas judicial system believes landowners "own" the deer as well.

While watching an episode of TTHA a year or so ago, I heard one of the breeders comment when asked how they could justify selling a breeder buck for tens (or hundreds) of thousands, that "you can't justify it, but the law allows us to do it, so we do it".... wow, spoken like a TRUE SPORTSMAN!!


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## TXDRAKE (Jun 24, 2004)

Kyle 1974,

Great Post! and if got to watch the judicial system in the case of O.J. Simpson then you know people can literally get away with Murder and all it takes is a big bank account, "If the Glove don't fit then you must aquit - just forget about all that DNA positive blood on it". So it happens even in Texas

Also, the state says that individuals that high fence their properties become executors of the state and are allowed by thier wealthy buddies on the commision to manage "OUR" deer for us. The last time I looked I really I don't need them managing anything for me. Thank goodness their not managing my bank account!! :wink:


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## catch 5 (Apr 10, 2006)

Exactly guys. I think everyone has expressed a lot of frustration with this topic. This thread could go on and on, but the bottom line is that the high fences take the "sportsmanship" out of hunting. It is a buisiness now. I refuse to hunt on a high fence ranch and take great pride in my kills on free ranging animals. Last year my friend shot a 203" deer on his high fence ranch........ and I made fun of him. It means nothing to me because any schmuck in the world can fork over mega $$$ to do the same thing. It doesnt him a good hunter because he sits in a Hilton type heated box blind in street clothes and shoots a deer with a tag in its ear under a feeder at 75 yards. Im done with this thread. It seems we are all on the same page.


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## catch 5 (Apr 10, 2006)

Oh one more thing. This is why I'm going to Iowa on a low fenced bowhunt for a chance at a 300lb 160" or bigger whitetail. Now thats hunting. I'll never pay for a hunt in Texas. And you cant shoot deer like that in Texas either.

Sorry I just had to throw that in.


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## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

TXDRAKE said:


> The last time I looked I really I don't need them managing anything for me.


Yep, I'd love for you to enact your right to manage killing yearling bucks as you see fit by as many friends and family members you want to invite on some landowners property. LOL

The shoe fits on both sides. You want to have your freedom with the deer to kill anything and everything and they want to have their freedom with the deer to manage and create monster bucks. Who is right? You? or them?


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## DeerTexas (Dec 5, 2004)

catch 5 said:


> Oh one more thing. This is why I'm going to Iowa on a low fenced bowhunt for a chance at a 300lb 160" or bigger whitetail. Now thats hunting. I'll never pay for a hunt in Texas. And you cant shoot deer like that in Texas either.


I'll always support an individual's RIGHT to build whatever he wants on his own property whether it's an 8' fence, a mote, a lake, or a copy of the Statue of Liberty. Private property rights should always be observed and respected. High fence, low fence or no fence, you have no right to access deer, trees, water or anything else on private property without the landowner's consent. In Texas, we call the violation "criminal trespassing" and you can be shot and killed for it. We don't much like cattle rustlers here either.

Yeah, technically the wildlife belong to the State, but you have no legal right to access the wildlife on private property whether there is a fence or not so the technicality is mute. **** & moan all ya want, all huntable land in TX is 98% privately owned and that'll never change in our lifetime. SOOOO, ya play by the rules here or..... go hunt Iowa.

I've said it before and I'll say it again; There are still PLENTY of affordable hunting leases in Texas for hunters who are reasonable in their expectations. I see em all the time. Truth be known, "affordable" isn't the ONLY criteria hunters are looking for. For instance, they also tend to want:

1) within a (whatever) hour drive
2) opportunity at (whatever) class bucks
3) allowed to bring guests
4) allowed to bring family members (maybe even brother-in-laws)
5) a cabin
6) electricity and water
7) allowed to drink alcohol
8) allowed to drive ATV's anywhere on the ranch
9) availability of other game
10) etc... X infinity

Understand I'm not knocking any of those wish list items. I want em all too, but I remain reasonable in my expectations. I don't expect to get all that for $300/year. Leases like that just aren't out there anymore.

What IS available?

* A $600/yr (+ or -) annual lease on a hunt club in East Texas.
* A $1,000-$3,000/year lease just about anywhere else but South Texas.

If you can live with those numbers, there's a lease out there with your name on it. Note: Beware of any lease in South Texas for less than $3,000/gun IF you're expecting to kill a trophy deer (which is what most South Texas hunters expect).

I hear many hunters say things like, "We don't want to spend any more than $X/year." Let's say, for example, $X in this case = $1,000. There may very well be MANY leases that group of hunters would find not only suitable, but exceptional for $1,200 - $1,500/year, but if the group restricts itself too much by being too rigid, they WILL end up being disappointed and ultimately bitter. Be flexible. Be willing to throw a few hundred more at it, or drive one more hour to get there, or whatever. The more flexible you are, the more successful (and happy) you'll be.

I hope that helps and doesn't **** anyone off. Those are my thoughts. Good hunting to all.

Scott-


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## Syncerus (Oct 18, 2005)

That was a good post, Scott.

Syncerus


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## Kyle 1974 (May 10, 2006)

>>>In Texas, we call the violation "criminal trespassing" and you can be shot and killed for it.<<<


uhh...yeah. I think I'm going to call B.S. on that one...

you can't shoot someone on the sole basis of trespassing... not even in Texas


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## DeerTexas (Dec 5, 2004)

Wanna bet?


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## SEtxDUkiller (Feb 1, 2006)

Yes I wanna bet. I dont think you studied much law in college. Nothing personal but legally you can only use reasonable force. Meaning if noone tries to kill you, you cant kill them. Believe that.


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## DeerTexas (Dec 5, 2004)

Here ya go:

*Texas Penal Code (Trespassing)*​§ 30.05. CRIMINAL TRESPASS. (a) A person commits an 
offense if he enters or remains on or in property, including an 
aircraft or other vehicle, of another without effective consent or 
he enters or remains in a building of another without effective 
consent and he:
(1) had notice that the entry was forbidden; or 
(2) received notice to depart but failed to do so. 
(b) For purposes of this section: 
(1) "Entry" means the intrusion of the entire body. 
(2) "Notice" means: 
(A) oral or written communication by the owner or 
someone with apparent authority to act for the owner;
(B) fencing or other enclosure obviously 
designed to exclude intruders or to contain livestock;
(C) a sign or signs posted on the property or at 
the entrance to the building, reasonably likely to come to the 
attention of intruders, indicating that entry is forbidden; 
(D) the placement of identifying purple paint 
marks on trees or posts on the property, provided that the marks 
are:
(i) vertical lines of not less than eight 
inches in length and not less than one inch in width;
(ii) placed so that the bottom of the mark 
is not less than three feet from the ground or more than five feet 
from the ground; and
(iii) placed at locations that are readily 
visible to any person approaching the property and no more than:
(a) 100 feet apart on forest land; or 
(b) 1,000 feet apart on land other 
than forest land; or 
(E) the visible presence on the property of a 
crop grown for human consumption that is under cultivation, in the 
process of being harvested, or marketable if harvested at the time 
of entry.
**************​​"Officer, the son of a ***** had a rifle (bow) and when I called for him to stop, he raised it like he was going to shoot me. Fearing for my life, I defended myself."​​Case closed. Next!​


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## DeerTexas (Dec 5, 2004)

SEtxDUkiller said:


> Meaning if noone tries to kill you, you cant kill them.


Trespassers in Texas ALWAYS try to kill the landowners.

BTW, this isn't an argument about the legalities of shooting a criminal on private property. Anyone who would trespass on private property in Texas with the intent of hunting without permission from the landowner is a **** fool. Surely we all agree about that.

I was just tryin to help. Hope I did. Thanks for listening.


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## d hop (Aug 12, 2004)

*How High*

As long as Bill Glendenning, Jerry Wascom, and others are alive, there is no limit.


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## Kyle 1974 (May 10, 2006)

wow deertexas...what an honest type of person you must be..... lie about someone trying to kill you so you can have the "right" to shoot them for hopping your fence.

just goes to show you what value people in Texas place on their deer....now it seems that a human life isn't worth as much as a deer....for that matter, it's not even worth a jump across the fence.


how do you know the person who hasn't tresspassed isn't looking for some help?

tell you what, next time you shoot someone for trespassing, let us ALL know how it turns out...I hear they're letting the inmates at huntsville have internet access these days


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## DeerTexas (Dec 5, 2004)

Kyle 1974 said:


> wow deertexas...what an honest type of person you must be..... lie about someone trying to kill you so you can have the "right" to shoot them for hopping your fence.


I am honest, and I'm just tellin ya like it is. What I find interesting is the speed at which you would stand to defend a criminal.

Climbing a fence or locked gate shows an ultimate lack of respect that should've been taught in early childhood. Do you think the fence is there to test your climbing skills? Do you think a lock was placed on the gate so you wouldn't steal the gate?

If a numbnut gets shot in Texas for CRIMINAL TRESPASS, I'd call that natural selection. Survival of the fittest. Next.


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## Kyle 1974 (May 10, 2006)

DeerTexas said:


> I am honest, and I'm just tellin ya like it is. What I find interesting is the speed at which you would stand to defend a criminal.
> 
> Climbing a fence or locked gate shows an ultimate lack of respect that should've been taught in early childhood. Do you think the fence is there to test your climbing skills? Do you think a lock was placed on the gate so you wouldn't steal the gate?
> 
> If a numbnut gets shot in Texas for CRIMINAL TRESPASS, I'd call that natural selection. Survival of the fittest. Next.


hah! what I find interesting is how quickly YOU are willing to kill someone before you even know why they're there!

I don't think I said a word defending criminals. I'm sorry if that's the way you interpreted it

As someone who worked for a pipeline company, a company that had legal access through easements all over south texas, I've had to deal with @$$hole landowners more often than I care to remember. I've had people pull guns on me, even though I was LEGALLY ON THEIR PROPERTY....it's a typical mentality in south texas...and a mentality that's rare in other parts of the country.
I'm not sure what it is about landowners that think THEY are the only law the exists on their property...


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## Syncerus (Oct 18, 2005)

If a landowner sees you on posted property and you haven't previously contacted him, I would say he certainly has a right to be suspicious initially. You are appearing in an unexpected place and that will always attract attention.

How he reacts from that point on depends on the individual; some act like humans and others like jerks. If you have legal right-of-way and the documentation to prove it, then he has nothing to say, like it or not.

The reason we have judges is because not everything can be specified in excruciating detail; sometimes the law need interpretation. Finding someone on posted land certainly, in itself, isn't reason to shoot anyone; finding someone in your living room at 2:30 AM probably is sufficient reason to shoot someone.

That's why we need judges.

Syncerus


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## DeerTexas (Dec 5, 2004)

Kyle 1974 said:


> what I find interesting is how quickly YOU are willing to kill someone before you even know why they're there!


I said...



DeerTexas said:


> In Texas, we call the violation "criminal trespassing" and you can be shot and killed for it.


...and ya can. I didn't say I'd do it. I don't even own a ranch.



Kyle 1974 said:


> I don't think I said a word defending criminals.





Kyle 1974 said:


> how do you know the person who hasn't tresspassed isn't looking for some help?


Defending criminals or making excuses for em, same thing.



Kyle 1974 said:


> I've had people pull guns on me, even though I was LEGALLY ON THEIR PROPERTY....it's a typical mentality in south texas...and a mentality that's rare in other parts of the country.


It is considered common courtesy in Texas to leave all gates like ya found em.



Kyle 1974 said:


> I know for a fact landowners in south texas that have sued people (pipeline companies from my experience) over leaving a gate open and allowing "their" deer to get out. Apparently, the Texas judicial system believes landowners "own" the deer as well.


You buy a ranch ranch in South Texas for $7 million, pay to high fence it in an effort to nurture, cull and manage the deer on it, spend thousands eradicating predators, pay the protein & corn bill, constantly mend the fences cut/damaged by ********, etc... Then tell me you wouldn't be ****** to find out some numbnut from the pipeline company left a gate open!

****************************

There are still plenty of quality places that are reasonably affordable to hunt in Texas. I wish you all the best in your efforts to find em. Good hunting. 

Scott-


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## DeerTexas (Dec 5, 2004)

Syncerus said:


> Finding someone on posted land certainly, in itself, isn't reason to shoot anyone; finding someone in your living room at 2:30 AM probably is sufficient reason to shoot someone.


Getting shot for either seems pretty easy to avoid to me.


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## SEtxDUkiller (Feb 1, 2006)

DeerTexas said:


> Here ya go:
> 
> (**************
> 
> ...


So you are gonna shoot the 14 year old kid who is tresspassing. I dont think the jury is going to buy that one. You would be taken to jail. You kill someone with a firearm....questionable or not you will go to trial. It is ignorant to deny that. This brings me to another reason I am not a South Texas hunter. It is this super EGO that MY land is all that matters in the world. Killing someone without reason simply bc they have tresspassed or poached is unacceptable. NEXT!


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## Cactus (Jan 16, 2006)

Catch 5, A high fenced ranch does not to take the sport out of deer hunting. Thats absurd. Have you ever hunted a high fence??? Because if you have you would know that Deer within a high fence are just as wild with just as much cover and brush as low fence deer. I assure it is not as easy as you make it soound to kill a 170+. 
I have sat back and watched everyone bashing high fences. That's fine. But to say its unsportsmanlike angers me. High fences have been around for a long time.
I agree with the fact that high fenced ranches are easier to keep up with your deer. It allows you to survey, to find out what progress youve made and what progress you need to make, and know exactly how many does need to be taken and from what area/pasture of the ranch. It allows you to better understand and know your ratios better and culling the crud out deer and in time, kill big bucks. High fences also give you the confidence in knowing that that good 4.5 yo will more than likely be there next year. This is why people get em so that they can kill bigger bucks. Many times bigger than lower fences. 

Tell me this, theoretically speaking, what if you inherited an 10,000 acre ranch in Dimmitt co. and it was high fenced that was well managed and B&C's were killed every year there?? Would you tear down the high fence and put up a low fence, or how bout no fence?? 

Now, as for someone paying $10,000 on up to kill a trophy, to me, wouldnt be very fulfilling because i didnt do anything for it as far as culling, killing does, hrs upon hrs spent hunting trying to find him etc.

Thats my 2


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## Redfishr (Jul 26, 2004)

There are alot of places on earth that have different game laws or no game laws but ,since we are so close to our neighbor Canada and are much like them. I thought I would comment on this.
In Canada, all residents are given an opportunity to hunt, in that it is illegal to lease your land for hunting. Landowners can give permission to residents to hunt or post their land not to hunt. But no monye can exchange hands. And the locals are kiling monsters of all species for the cost of a hunting license. 
Sure wish it was like that here. I know it will never happen but............can ya'll think of any cons to this?????


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## John Mills (Mar 25, 2006)

Dont know what your talking about catch 5, My friend owns a ranch in central texas and I've seen a few deer that are probably over 160. Texas has plenty of big deer to provide, you just have to find them. That's all I gotta say about that, and yes I agree that the prices for high fenced hunts are to high.


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## Cactus (Jan 16, 2006)

That's sounds fine, the problem is i dont believe there are too many land owners that would allow/like this. Especially since leasing/land is so high right now, you know.


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## John Mills (Mar 25, 2006)

Speaking of tresspassers/killing deer on private property, my friend had a problem with someone across the road from his ranch putting a deer stand near the fence line across the road and killing deer from my friends ranch. All Marshall(my friend) did was put a few bullet holes in the guys stand ( when he wasnt there), and ******* on his stand. I know I posted this out of the blue, bt I thought maybe it would bring a little humor.


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## DeerTexas (Dec 5, 2004)

SEtxDUkiller said:


> So you are gonna shoot the 14 year old kid who is tresspassing.


Did I say that?



SEtxDUkiller said:


> You kill someone with a firearm....questionable or not you will go to trial.


You believe every shooting goes to trial regardless of whether or not charges were filed by the DA? You don't believe you have a right to legally defend yourself with a firearm? This conversation is officially SILLY.


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## John Mills (Mar 25, 2006)

amen deertexas


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## TXDRAKE (Jun 24, 2004)

DeerTexas,



> You believe every shooting goes to trial regardless of whether or not charges were filed by the DA? You don't believe you have a right to legally defend yourself with a firearm?


I don't think anybody was questioning an individuals right to defend himself or his family from harm. I do absoloutley know for a fact that EVERY shooting of a person does not go to trial. But, I also absoloutley know for a fact that EVERY shooting is presented to the DA for Charges and then sent to a Grand Jury to see if those charges will be accepted. I also know that if you Shoot (Use Deadly Force) on someone for merely trespassing on your property (Not talking about inside your dwelling, different subject all together) and you kill that person without the ability to show that person was intending on causing you harm, EVEN if that person is openly carrying a weapon and says they are going to kill you, with an equal means of deadly force. Then you my friend will probably be the newest guest at the Huntsville Hotel.

Ohh and since we are using some quote's from the The TEXAS Penal Code, here is a few for ya TexasDeer to consider:

§ 9.04. THREATS AS JUSTIFIABLE FORCE. The threat of 
force is justified when the use of force is justified by this 
chapter. For purposes of this section, a threat to cause death or 
serious bodily injury by the production of a weapon or otherwise, as 
long as the actor's purpose is limited to creating an apprehension 
that he will use deadly force if necessary, does not constitute the 
use of deadly force.

Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, § 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974. 
Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, § 1.01, eff. Sept. 1, 
1994.

and just a couple more:

SUBCHAPTER D. PROTECTION OF PROPERTY

§ 9.41. PROTECTION OF ONE'S OWN PROPERTY. (a) A person in 
lawful possession of land or tangible, movable property is 
justified in using force against another when and to the degree the 
actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to 
prevent or terminate the other's trespass on the land or unlawful 
interference with the property.
(b) A person unlawfully dispossessed of land or tangible, 
movable property by another is justified in using force against the 
other when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force 
is immediately necessary to reenter the land or recover the 
property if the actor uses the force immediately or in fresh pursuit 
after the dispossession and:
(1) the actor reasonably believes the other had no 
claim of right when he dispossessed the actor; or
(2) the other accomplished the dispossession by using 
force, threat, or fraud against the actor.

Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, § 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974. 
Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, § 1.01, eff. Sept. 1, 
1994.

§ 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is 
justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or 
tangible, movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the 
other under Section 9.41; and
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the 
deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of 
arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the 
nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing 
immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated 
robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the 
property; and
(3) he reasonably believes that: 
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or 
recovered by any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to 
protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or 
another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.

Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, § 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974. 
Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, § 1.01, eff. Sept. 1, 
1994.

Their is nothing in these quotes taken directly from the Texas Penal Code about using Deadly Force in the case of simple trespassing. SILLY, I know but still the law, all the same! Aren't Laws Cool! 

Have a great day!! :cheers:


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## NW80 (Apr 26, 2006)

I hope y'all are listening to what you're saying!

For GOD"S sakes the thread was started about the rising cost of deer hunting in Texas and how many Texans are not going to be able to afford to hunt in their own state and possibly at all.

Now you are talking about Killing people ----- GET A GRIP !!!!!


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## TXDRAKE (Jun 24, 2004)

NW80,

I couldn't Agree more. Salute to you, Brother.:texasflag


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## Moonpie (Jun 20, 2004)

Hunting jsut became too expensive for me. 
I quit it ten years ago and don't miss it. When they told me my kid was no longer allowed unless I paid another slot, they lost me.
Use the disposable income to fish year round with a real nice summer vacation thrown in once in a while.
Its your money. Spend it the way you want. 
I'd rather spend mine with the family and friends instead of giving it to some greedy slob land/lease owner.

And for you guys talking about shooting people: You CAN'T be that dumb. Smoke somebody just because they are standing on "your land" and you're gonna make Jailhouse Bubba a nice new wife.


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## DeerTexas (Dec 5, 2004)

TXDRAKE said:


> § 9.41. PROTECTION OF ONE'S OWN PROPERTY. (a) A person in
> lawful possession of land or tangible, movable property is
> justified in using force against another when and to the degree the
> actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to
> ...


Thank you for posting this. It confirms what I was saying. Best regards.


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## DeerTexas (Dec 5, 2004)

NW80 said:


> I hope y'all are listening to what you're saying!
> 
> For GOD"S sakes the thread was started about the rising cost of deer hunting in Texas and how many Texans are not going to be able to afford to hunt in their own state and possibly at all.
> 
> Now you are talking about Killing people ----- GET A GRIP !!!!!


Ditto! I tried to tell em that. Reckon their blinders interfered or somethin.

Moonpie - It's sad to me to see that ya quit huntin, but I couldn't agree with ya more. It is your money and ya oughtta spend it the way you see fit. Fishin's good, too. 

Y'all have a nice day and don't shoot anybody.


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## jferrell1211 (May 18, 2006)

I don't know DeerTexas, I've been following this thread, reading what was being said and all...and it seemed to me that it was you that was itchin' to shoot somebody......maybe I was wrong....I went back and checked....yep...yessir...sure was you.......unless somebody is posting using your handle......go check around page 8 or 9....I got the impression that you were the trigger happy one......

not that is matters....not that much one way or the other....I just hate to see misrepresentation like that "ditto" above.....or did I miss where you changed your mind on shooting???


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## DeerTexas (Dec 5, 2004)

jferrell1211 said:


> ...and it seemed to me that it was you that was itchin' to shoot somebody......maybe I was wrong....I went back and checked....yep...yessir...sure was you.......


Then quote what I said verbatum as I just did for you. Let's see if I said I was "itchin to shoot somebody" as you claim. If what you say is true, it can be proven by quoting my words here. Please do it.


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## Bug_Power (Jul 14, 2005)

TXDRAKE said:


> § 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is
> justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or
> tangible, movable property:
> (1) if he would be justified in using force against the
> ...


It's not simple tresspassing if he is hunting on your land, shoots a deer and is proceeding to remove the animal after dark. Do you think that stopping an armed poacher who risks jailtime and loss of automobile and firearm, exposes you to the risk of death or serious bodily injury? If you think some guys won't try and shoot at you to escape heafty fines, ceasure of assets and jailtime that's a risk YOU can take. We discussed this at length at my CHL class today. The instructor said criminally you wouldn't be held liable, but civially it's another story.


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## TXDRAKE (Jun 24, 2004)

Bug_Power,

First, Unless your a Peace Officer for the State of Texas (Which I assume your not because your taking a CHL class), Why in the world, would you (Not being a Law Enforecement Officer in the act of officially engaging in one's sworn duties) be stopping anybody, especially if its at night and you can't tell how many of them their are and what they are armed with? Let the Professionals do their job, Thus the word Professional?

Secondly, How do you know exactly what that person is doing on your property, unless you have personnally witnessed him engaged in the discharge of a crime, for God's sake He/She could be lost, Looking for a lost Child/Dog, or might even be the REAL Owner of the land that your leasing, checking on his livestock, and many other scenarios come to mind!!

Thridly, That unless the deer that you mention being shot was purchased from a licensed breeder it is NOT and I repeat NOT YOUR property, Its the STATE OF TEXAS Property, so hes not officially removing your property unless again you legally purchased it from an official and licensed Breeder.

Fourth and lastly, If you think for a minute because you shoot somebody on your property, whether or not they had a weapon or your have a CHL or not, that you couldn't be found criminally AND civially liable, then you would be making a serious and quite possibly life changing decision and maybe you should seek a different instructor or maybe talk to him/her in greater detail about these subjects and quite frankly it kind of scares me (also a CHL license holder) to think that you even remotely believe that you can just pull your weapon without great reguard for your actions.

DeerTexas,

I confirmed nothing for you as their is nothing in the Texas Penal Code 9.41 or 9.42 about shooting (Using Deadly Force) a "criminal trespasser" as you *verbatumly *quoted


> In Texas, we call the violation "criminal trespassing" and you can be shot and killed for it.


. Because he/she would have to be actively engaged in the imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property. Which is not committing "criminal trespassing" because simply accessing your property to take a walk or looking for something without your permission is essentially "criminal trespassing." So would you shoot somebody for simple "criminal trespassing"? I certainly would hope not.

To both Bug_Power and DeerTexas,

I am sure that you fellas could and would recieve ample opportunity to try and explain your reasoning for shooting someone on your property to the DA and Grand Jury. Good Luck and Happy Trespasser Hunting! :clover:


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## jferrell1211 (May 18, 2006)

DeerTexas,
somebody else already quoted you...I told you where it was in my post...

I'm not interesting in getting in ********** contest with you....especially over what you said\I said when it's all in print.....

that said...anybody can read it, and a few have....again, see page 8 or 9.....geez fellas, lets all go look at the photography forums for a few minutes and sing "coom-ba-ya"....


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## ELF62 (Dec 24, 2004)

DeerTexas said:


> Yeah, technically the wildlife belong to the State, but you have no legal right to access the wildlife on private property whether there is a fence or not so the technicality is mute. **** & moan all ya want, all huntable land in TX is 98% privately owned and that'll never change in our lifetime. SOOOO, ya play by the rules here or..... go hunt Iowa.
> 
> Scott-


You are correct...you can't access deer on private property without landowner consent, BUT if there is is a high fence around the land those deer are no longer allowed to access any other land that they may or may not have in the past. These deer are now "Penned".


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## DeerTexas (Dec 5, 2004)

jferrell1211 said:


> DeerTexas,
> somebody else already quoted you...I told you where it was in my post...


You won't because you can't. You know I never said anything like that. The last thing I'd ever want to do is have to shoot someone.

Ya know, I said many things in the long post I made about the original topic. A few of you fixated on one little sentence and ignored the intent. Some of you are still doing it. That's fine if that's what you want to do, but it seems silly and petty to me. Regardless, if you need a villian so bad here, I'll be him. No problem.

The sooner you accept the way things are with leases in Texas, the sooner you'll stop being so bitter & miserable over it. High fences aren't going away and lease prices aren't going to drop, and BTW, none of that is my fault.

Happy Father's Day.
Scott-


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## DeerTexas (Dec 5, 2004)

ELF62 said:


> You are correct...you can't access deer on private property without landowner consent, BUT if there is is a high fence around the land those deer are no longer allowed to access any other land that they may or may not have in the past. These deer are now "Penned".


Stuff happens. Private property rights must trump.

If I ever buy a ranch, I think I'll build a mote around it and put viscious aligators in it. I'll also build a 25' rock wall around that. Behind that will be another 12' electric fence with constantine wire across the top & bottom. Motion sensors, roving spotlights, sirens... Frankly, I don't trust some of you mfer's.


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## jferrell1211 (May 18, 2006)

DeerTexas said:


> Here ya go:
> 
> "Officer, the son of a ***** had a rifle (bow) and when I called for him to stop, he raised it like he was going to shoot me. Fearing for my life, I defended myself."​
> Case closed. Next!​


it's called implying....

if "making excuses" for criminals is the equivalent of defending criminals(and it is) then this statement is the equivalent of saying you're going to shoot a trespasser...


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## DeerTexas (Dec 5, 2004)

I merely gave an *EXAMPLE* of all any landowner would have to say to legally justify shooting an armed trespasser. Didn't you see the quotation marks?


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## DeerTexas (Dec 5, 2004)

Y'all look at what I said again. Notice the one line below y'all are fixated on in red:



DeerTexas said:


> I'll always support an individual's RIGHT to build whatever he wants on his own property whether it's an 8' fence, a mote, a lake, or a copy of the Statue of Liberty. Private property rights should always be observed and respected. High fence, low fence or no fence, you have no right to access deer, trees, water or anything else on private property without the landowner's consent. In Texas, we call the violation "criminal trespassing" and you can be shot and killed for it. We don't much like cattle rustlers here either.
> 
> Yeah, technically the wildlife belong to the State, but you have no legal right to access the wildlife on private property whether there is a fence or not so the technicality is mute. **** & moan all ya want, all huntable land in TX is 98% privately owned and that'll never change in our lifetime. SOOOO, ya play by the rules here or..... go hunt Iowa.
> 
> ...


What I said is true. You can be shot and killed for criminal trespassing in Texas. Don't listen to me, though. If ya feel froggy, JUMP!! I was just trying to help!!!!!! Those who continue to spit at me for it can EAT ME!

To the rest, have a nice day!


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## jferrell1211 (May 18, 2006)

you are correct DeerTexas, I see your point now, thanks.....

LET IT BE KNOWN TO EVERY 2COOLER---DeerTexas DOES NOT WANT TO SHOOT YOU!!! 

IT WAS ALL A MISUNDERSTANDING!!!

LOL!!! keep your sense of humor DeerTexas, we'll get thru it eventually....

thanks for the dinner offer but I'm not hungry right now....

later.....


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## DeerTexas (Dec 5, 2004)

jferrell1211 said:


> keep your sense of humor DeerTexas, we'll get thru it eventually....


I try, my friend. Peace atcha.


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## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

possession is 9/10ths of the law


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## Bug_Power (Jul 14, 2005)

TXDRAKE said:


> Bug_Power,
> 
> First, Unless your a Peace Officer for the State of Texas (Which I assume your not because your taking a CHL class), Why in the world, would you (Not being a Law Enforecement Officer in the act of officially engaging in one's sworn duties) be stopping anybody, especially if its at night and you can't tell how many of them their are and what they are armed with? Let the Professionals do their job, Thus the word Professional?


 You're not a butcher or slaughter house are you? Why shoot animals then? You can't buy them at the store? You have the legal right to detain someone who is breaking the law. You have the right to protect property and assets. Even though a deer may not be an asset that you control, the number and quality directly effect the value of your land. Don't believe me...try and buy some south texas land for the price of some land say around Pecos, Texas...



TXDRAKE said:


> Secondly, How do you know exactly what that person is doing on your property, unless you have personnally witnessed him engaged in the discharge of a crime, for God's sake He/She could be lost, Looking for a lost Child/Dog, or might even be the REAL Owner of the land that your leasing, checking on his livestock, and many other scenarios come to mind!!


I will be hunting on my own land. I know who SHOULD be out there. Now you take the approach that I see someone walking accross a sendero that I'm going to pull the rifle out and just shoot them. You have to take each situation into account. You can't lump sum all of the scenerios in together. If I see someone carrying a weapon. They will be told to disarm. Law abiding citiziens will comply. If at any time the person makes me feel that deadly force is necessary to prevent loss of life, it will be used. You assume everyone TRESPASSING on your property are good law abiding citizens. You assume that someone who all ready has broken the law will obey the other laws when you approach them.



TXDRAKE said:


> Thridly, That unless the deer that you mention being shot was purchased from a licensed breeder it is NOT and I repeat NOT YOUR property, Its the STATE OF TEXAS Property, so hes not officially removing your property unless again you legally purchased it from an official and licensed Breeder.


Theft isn't the only crime....did you know if you are toilet papering someone's house at night you can be shot? A case held up in San Antonio where some kids where shot after toilet papering a house. The act of poaching while tresspassing or tresspassing with a firearm would constitute criminal mischeiff. I would detain the person and once again if I felt deadly force was necessary to protect myself. I would use it.



TXDRAKE said:


> Fourth and lastly, If you think for a minute because you shoot somebody on your property, whether or not they had a weapon or your have a CHL or not, that you couldn't be found criminally AND civially liable, then you would be making a serious and quite possibly life changing decision and maybe you should seek a different instructor or maybe talk to him/her in greater detail about these subjects and quite frankly it kind of scares me (also a CHL license holder) to think that you even remotely believe that you can just pull your weapon without great reguard for your actions.


I agree....you try and lump every situation into YES you can or NO you can't. Truth be told there ARE situations where a hunter is following a wounded animal without his firearm onto the property, or a rancher with a lost cow. These are considerations. Also these people are not going to be carrying a loaded weapon onto my property, they will not point said firearm in my direction, they will not threat bodily harm, and they will not attempt to flee for cover with a firearm. Anyone told to disarm with a loaded firearm who flees is an immenant (sp?) threat. A lawbreaking person hiding in the S.Texas brush with a high power rifle is something that would make me fear for my life.

Now if you want to assume everyone who breaks the law and is holding a firearm is harmless....that's a decision YOU have to make. Now I would rather explain to a group of my peers that an armed tresspasser who has show deadly accuracy with a firearm made me fear for my life, rather then have my family pick out which casket and buiral plot I need.


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## Jfreeman (Nov 3, 2004)

I thought this thread was about deer lease $$$.


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## John Mills (Mar 25, 2006)

Well said bug power.


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## DeerTexas (Dec 5, 2004)

Right on Bug Power.


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## jferrell1211 (May 18, 2006)

Bug Power.....hmmm...lemme ask you something....have you ever been lost while hunting?

it happened to me, once a few years ago.....I couldn't believe it, but, it happened...

I'll tell you this, you better be excercising really good judgement....and a bit of clairvoyance would help too....cause honest people get lost....and if you see me on YOUR property, with my gun, and you command me to disarm?? I dunno.....I just dunno....You see, I don't know where I am...and I don't know who the heck you are....

I think there is a lot of big talk on these threads about shooting people....and like granny told Josey Wales..."that big talk is a bunch of doodley squat"


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## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

Depends on the terrain jferrel... down south you have fences. If you hop a fence then you are definitely not in the same pasture you are supposed to be in and in the end not to smart to hop fences instead of walking the fence around to where the gate is you came in on. East Texas may not have fences in areas so I can see where you may get lost there.


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## jferrell1211 (May 18, 2006)

ahhh, good point InfamousJ, I've never been down south....and I wouldn't be crossing fences..........where I was lost a few years back...there were no fences and I ended up on private property...luckily the guy I ran into just said "howdy", and we got along fine....


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## SEtxDUkiller (Feb 1, 2006)

Bug Power,

There are two sides to each argument obviously. After you shoot the man in hiding FROM YOU in the brush, good luck explaining to the jury that you need to use lethal force (unless of course he is shooting at you to begin with). But as you said if he runs from you then you consider him a threat bc he might hide, you said nothing above him shooting at you in that instance. The man on your property might be the one hiding bc he feels his life is threatened. Does that give him the right to shoot you? No.....It's about a **** deer, which in my book is not worth any human life. REALITY CHECK


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## jferrell1211 (May 18, 2006)

SEtxDUkiller said:


> ..........<snip>....... Does that give him the right to shoot you? No.....It's about a **** deer, which in my book is not worth any human life. REALITY CHECK


excellent point...even if everything bad you can imagine about the "target" is true...he is a thief, trespasser, a low down scumbag, etc..., etc...then according to the law of the land...it is not a capital offense.....defending yourself is another matter....but levying "justice" is the domain of the judicial system.....

the problem that causes a lot of these kinds of threads to degenerate is--- i think -- an excess of testosterone!!!

is there really all that much trespassing going on?? maybe I'm missing the latest news here.....


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## Downandout (Dec 24, 2004)

I think I would tell him to put down his gun or bow and instruct him to leave the private property immediately. I would also tell him that his weapon could be picked up later that day at a specific time and place. Preferably at the owner/lease persons house and tell him that he could explain why he was trespassing in front of the owners and local sheriffs department. I think taking his possession would be enough incentive for him or his representative to show up at the desired time. I'm a firm believer in letting the law handle the situation. Its one thing if your life is on the line and you are truly threatened into shooting another person, but just remember when you pull that trigger and either wound or kill another person your whole life is fixing to change. just my .02.


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## BEER4BAIT (Jun 24, 2005)

Back to the leases, this is what's happening here in TX. The man that owned the land south of us was a increadible guy from Athens, he was aproached by a man from N carolina and was offered 2,000,000.00 for 1200 acres. West TX just for the quail. 

There are guys willing to offer up 4-10 times what it's worth for purchase or lease. We are here to take the fall out. 

What we need is more public land and in a hurry. 2 have just been established here in east TX.


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## TXDRAKE (Jun 24, 2004)

BEER4BAIT,

I couldn't agree more.

DeerTexas, John Mills, Bug-Power,

Again, Happy Trespasser hunting and I hope you Fellas, bag you a Big'un!!! :cheers: What you guys have said is absoloutley the truth and you guys have convinced me, I'm a believer, I concede, that your black brush, mesquite, scrubb oaks, red dirt, and a few deer are worth their weight in gold. Hell, I don't understand why every ranch doesn't have full security details with the military on FULL alert at all times, Those dang trespassers, their everywhere, we HAVE TO STOP THEM. You guys don't need to explain all your reasoning for your future actions to me (I'm a believer) as I'm sure that you will have ample opportunity during your docket time in court and I'm very sure that the court recorder will make sure she gets it all down for you (_*Verbatum even*_)and who know's maybe Bubba in that jail cell that your sharing will let you lay your head on his shoulder and I'm sure he will listen and you fella's will have me on the outside rallying support for your legal funds. *Isn't Life Grand!!!:doowapsta OK, I'm done with this thread as I have been converted, Hallelujah and Amen. Anybody feel like having a 

group hug?

*


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## DeerTexas (Dec 5, 2004)

SEtxDUkiller said:


> It's about a **** deer, which in my book is not worth any human life.


Some people will kill other people for a lot less than a $10,000 deer.


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## Freshwaterman (May 21, 2004)

Cactus said:


> Catch 5, A high fenced ranch does not to take the sport out of deer hunting. Thats absurd. Have you ever hunted a high fence??? Because if you have you would know that Deer within a high fence are just as wild with just as much cover and brush as low fence deer. I assure it is not as easy as you make it soound to kill a 170+.
> I have sat back and watched everyone bashing high fences. That's fine. But to say its unsportsmanlike angers me. High fences have been around for a long time.
> I agree with the fact that high fenced ranches are easier to keep up with your deer. It allows you to survey, to find out what progress youve made and what progress you need to make, and know exactly how many does need to be taken and from what area/pasture of the ranch. It allows you to better understand and know your ratios better and culling the crud out deer and in time, kill big bucks. High fences also give you the confidence in knowing that that good 4.5 yo will more than likely be there next year. This is why people get em so that they can kill bigger bucks. Many times bigger than lower fences.
> 
> ...


 Not all of them are the same. We have one 2 miles from our lease and I've went by there a few times and seen HUGE bucks just watching us within 50 yards of the fence. Stopped and shot video without them running off. Some are slaughter set-ups, others are more challenging.


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## Freshwaterman (May 21, 2004)

John Mills said:


> Speaking of tresspassers/killing deer on private property, my friend had a problem with someone across the road from his ranch putting a deer stand near the fence line across the road and killing deer from my friends ranch. All Marshall(my friend) did was put a few bullet holes in the guys stand ( when he wasnt there), and ******* on his stand. I know I posted this out of the blue, bt I thought maybe it would bring a little humor.


I've thought about doing the same but an interesting fact is that an adjoining landowner can place a stand on the property line and is within law. What you cannot do is knowing discharge a firearm across a property line.


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## Freshwaterman (May 21, 2004)

jferrell1211 said:


> I don't know DeerTexas, I've been following this thread, reading what was being said and all...and it seemed to me that it was you that was itchin' to shoot somebody......maybe I was wrong....I went back and checked....yep...yessir...sure was you.......unless somebody is posting using your handle......go check around page 8 or 9....I got the impression that you were the trigger happy one......
> 
> not that is matters....not that much one way or the other....I just hate to see misrepresentation like that "ditto" above.....or did I miss where you changed your mind on shooting???


 I have met Scott at the Hunters Extravaganza and can tell you he is not implying he is trigger happy for someone on his land. He simply stated the fact that a landowner is within his/her right to do so if someone is trespassing.

I don't think that a guy running a deer leasing website is here to make enemies with anyone.


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## jferrell1211 (May 18, 2006)

read on thru Noob...we got straight on that...


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## Freshwaterman (May 21, 2004)

jferrell1211 said:


> read on thru Noob...we got straight on that...


LOL- I figured that out. WOW, what a thread.


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## jferrell1211 (May 18, 2006)

yeah, more fun than bad TexMex.....I was thinkin 'bout startin' another thread on the difference between stuffin deer with protein and God knows what else and professional athletes stuffin themselves with 'roids and HGH and God knows what else....interested? LOL!!!


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## TXPalerider (May 21, 2004)

Wow!! Don't have time to read all the pages, but, it looks like this one got out of hand.


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## jferrell1211 (May 18, 2006)

nah...not that bad....well, maybe a little....just tryin to figure out whether we shoot first and ask questions later or what.....


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## Freshwaterman (May 21, 2004)

jferrell1211 said:


> yeah, more fun than bad TexMex.....I was thinkin 'bout startin' another thread on the difference between stuffin deer with protein and God knows what else and professional athletes stuffin themselves with 'roids and HGH and God knows what else....interested? LOL!!!


Why not!!!

Drug testing at the scorers table.


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## DeerTexas (Dec 5, 2004)

I'm so mean, I once shot a man just for snorin.









Read about it in Time Life Book's _The Western Years_ series. These handsome, leatherbound books are a compliment to any cowboy's library. 

Thanks for trustin I'm sane, Da Noob.


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## jjtroutkiller (Jan 28, 2005)

TXDRAKE said:


> BEER4BAIT,
> 
> I couldn't agree more.
> 
> ...


**** Jason I never took you for a PUSS,







don't convert and stick to your guns as I would have been in this argument a long time ago if I could type worth a ****.


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## TXDRAKE (Jun 24, 2004)

Joe,

Thanks for the support and if you had been a bit quicker I might have stayed the fight (didn't know the calvary was coming) but since you were slow to the gun  (But I guess better late than never), I'm going to have to start hunting me some Trespassers, Yee Hah, Get you SOME. "How can you shoot women and children? You just don't lead'm as much!" by the way thats a quote from an excellant movie about hunting trespassers from helicopters. Mmmmmm Hmmmmm, I like me some french fried Taters. If ya can't beat'm, better join'm Kinda like they do in prison.


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## jjtroutkiller (Jan 28, 2005)

LMAO, you did give it a hell of a go.







Not too sure about all the talk with joining them like in PRISON though.


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