# Media Coverage Denied? National Security?



## JohnHumbert (May 21, 2004)

OK, here goes one of my controversial posts.

There's been some talk/rumours about a Media Blackout. Here are my thoughts and tidbits of information that I have heard. This is just talk-talk, as I really can't confirm this myself, but I trust my sources.

I don't think there is a media "blackout", but there is definitely a throttling of information being allowed to be published. From what I've heard, there are very good reasons for this. Take these as you will, but here I some of the things that I've heard:

(1) It is a very serious situation on the coast right now. Many more issues than the media has even thought of. The government entities who are trying their best to deal with everything would prefer not have to deal with things that they don't have to : such as media hype starting a panic or giving "ideas" to unsavory elements. They want to get a handle on some things before media or mass opinions/actions make matters worse. To me, that's smart.

(2) There are almost certainly much more loss of life than is being reported. I have already heard from some LEO about bodies recovered - the count is more than what the news is reporting. In addition, there are many, many people unaccounted for - don't know what happened or where they are. They are simply "unaccounted". These numbers run over a 1000 (some say higher) for Bolivar and between 3000-5000 (again, some say higher) on Galveston. People being what they are, some will want to speculate that these may be DOA - but NO ONE knows, they may have left out of state, etc. If there IS loss of life, it may be that the bodies have not be found in the door-to-door search, or they may not be "floating", or they may have washed out to sea as the water receded. It is sad to think that many perished, but my personal OPINION is there is more than the 5 or 6 deaths "officially" reported - almost certainly since one source told me they have recovered more than that from the Texas City beaches just the other day. 

(3) One military person I spoke with said there is an issue of National security that is hush-hush right now. The issue is that there is a LARGE geographical area that is not under any infrastructure police protection or patrol. A significant hole on the coast that "unsavory" elements could sneak just about anything into the US undetected - drugs, weapons, you name it. The CG and LEO have their hands full with cleanup, and keeping worried folks from poking around - not to mention looters - and really can't watch the coast for someone running drugs or something more serious. Especially at night The military is being called in and the "talk" is that Galvestion will most likely be under martial law soon. My military source told me - and take this for what it's worth - that the commander in the area is calling for around 15,000 troops and they "just ain't available" - we have too many deployed elsewhere. The fear is that this would send a signal to our enemies in the world that we are weak and vunerable right now on the Texas coast.

(4) It is AMAZING the lack of news coverage outside Texas. My company based in California knows virtually NOTHING about what is going on. They tell me there was a 3 minute spot on the news last Saturday, very few if any pictures with the various news stories. And the only thing that this is being reported now is stuff like "cleanup effort continues", and "tiger loose", and "man in bear suit on beach" - fluff pieces. I sent them some pictures and they flat don't believe it - think I am making it up and sending pictures from Indonesia or some such place. Which explains why they got so angry when I told them I was taking a day off to board up my house. (Their suggestion was I could leave last Friday after work if I really, really needed to). They are also upset that their office in Houston isn't open: Quote "I mean, the storm was last Saturday for gosh sake, we're going to have to take some diciplinary action if people don't start showing up".


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## byrontx (Aug 24, 2006)

I suspect the administration does not want a pr nightmare like Katrina and the dead lady in a wheelchair. The news is being throttled.


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## Pathfinder (Jun 9, 2004)

I sure hope you're wrong.


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## SSMike (Aug 15, 2005)

I would bet the loss of life is much greater than is being reported. There is no reason to plaster that all over the tv right now like the media whores did with Katrina. Let them do their job and we will find out in the end how bad is actually is.... Why people would stay on Bolivar is beyond me. Knowing that Bolivar would without a doubt be covered in water with no escape. I read one story from a survivor that watch his neighbor hang on for his life to the pillars of his house and then slipped away. Horrible.


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## seattleman1969 (Jul 17, 2008)

JohnHumbert said:


> It is AMAZING the lack of news coverage outside Texas. My company based in California knows virtually NOTHING about what is going on. They tell me there was a 3 minute spot on the news last Saturday, very few if any pictures with the various news stories. And the only thing that this is being reported now is stuff like "cleanup effort continues", and "tiger loose", and "man in bear suit on beach" - fluff pieces. I sent them some pictures and they flat don't believe it - think I am making it up and sending pictures from Indonesia or some such place".


I've had the same experience when showing my friends in Washington State the devastation, they just flat out don't believe that could be in the US.


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## Free_loader (Nov 4, 2004)

seattleman1969 said:


> I've had the same experience when showing my friends in Washington State the devastation, they just flat out don't believe that could be in the US.


That's 100% truth ... other than updates i get from you guys & other forum posts i see nothing ... from what i can tell from watching the news .. you guys are back to normal ... drinking shiner & watching the cowboys ... the lack of coverage is amazing ..

now when it comes to what's going on with wall street, or sarah palin ... you know more than you want to


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## speckledred (Jun 1, 2004)

Family in Oklahoma are scratching for info about the coast as well as friends on the East Coast. Had several calls from national accounts wondering what's happening and I am forwarding pics. Common sense to me dictates that feds, state & local gov. would not want broadcast gloom and doom any futher than is being broadcast now to include any additional weakness in our area. I am not of the conspiracy group and don't believe we are being fed untruths but may be receiving limited information as the death toll is unknown at this time.


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## trashcanslam (Mar 7, 2006)

I think there is a huge media blackout on Bolivar and have heard plenty of rumors to support your theory. If about 40% of the population stayed on Galveston then you could deduce that 40% of the Bolivar population stayed as well. From what I've gathered they have only rescued around 150-200 people which leaves many missing. I agree that it isn't right to write these people off and many may have escaped without being counted, but the media needs to be updating this situation so that these people can be found. It is sickening to me the way that this situation is being mishandled. By treating Bolivar as the redheaded stepchild of Galveston County they are allowing looters to run free and steal from the few standing homes, they are allowing thieves to have a field day down there and you can bet that there is a lot of mischievous activity down there right now.

Now I wish what I wrote above was not true, and this is just what I've been hearing but unfortunately the media is not offering any counter-information to repress the rumors.


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## JohnHumbert (May 21, 2004)

*TrashCan...*

I don't think there's a "blackout" on Bolivar. I think it's more than there's just nothing to report. From what I heard, there's nothing living on Bolivar except mosquitos and 'gators. Not one picture or report of any person actually walking around, looking, etc. Of course, you can't there ... but if there were any people there, you would expect SOMETHING to see, hear. It has been reported that a few hundred were evacuated, airlifted out but that's it.

Reporting/media coverage can't really say much when there's virtually nothing left in some areas.


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## bassguitarman (Nov 29, 2005)

I'm in Oklahoma with family and friends in Houston and Galveston. I am amazed that 2cool has provided me with more information and pictures than any other source. I have been able to provide pictures of the devastation to my friends and family across the US - and frankly, they have been shocked. 

The national and local news make it appear that there were a few boats thrown around and a few houses lost..........I don't get it.

Thanks 2cool.......


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## Slightly Dangerous (May 21, 2004)

<<(Their suggestion was I could leave last Friday after work if I really, really needed to). They are also upset that their office in Houston isn't open: Quote "I mean, the storm was last Saturday for gosh sake, we're going to have to take some diciplinary action if people don't start showing up".>>

This is the point where I would politely suggest that the home office come and visit. If they refuse I would find work elsewhere...after telling them what I think of their lack of respect for the lives of their employees. Of course that's just me...and I'm rather impulsive (Texan).


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## CoastalOutfitters (Aug 20, 2004)

until the areas are cleared for bodies, I would hope there would be a media blackout, last thing someone wants to see is a deceased friend/family member on the news after 5 days, what else do people really need to see ?


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## warcat (May 22, 2004)

I expect that, if the approximations on how many people stayed is correct, there will be a total lost life count of around 3,000-5,000 persons, maybe up to 10,000. I would have to think that a number of those persons are now washing up on shore, therefore the media blackout- out of respect for the deceased. Quite frankly, I don't want to see that on my TV. These people deserve more than that.


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## 85LoneStar (Feb 26, 2006)

JohnHumbert said:


> . . .(3) One military person I spoke with said there is an issue of National security that is hush-hush right now. The issue is that there is a LARGE geographical area that is not under any infrastructure police protection or patrol. . . .


Not trying to be argumentive but I'm not sure how accurate this is.
My father-in-law works for the Galveston County Sherif's department and they are working 12 hour shifts patrolling Bolivar and Galveston Island.


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## TXPalerider (May 21, 2004)

warcat said:


> I expect that, if the approximations on how many people stayed is correct, there will be a total lost life count of around 3,000-5,000 persons, maybe up to 10,000.............


My gut has told me all along that the number is going to go up very significantly as time passes. However, I don't think (hope) the numbers are not near that high.

I feel like if the numbers were near that high, by this time, there would be a whole lot of people contacting the media trying to get attention drawn to locating their loved ones. And the media certainly wouldn't pass on that story.

That's just my gut. I pray that I'm right and you are wrong. :sad:


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## JohnHumbert (May 21, 2004)

*85LoneStar...*

I'm sure the LEO are doing a great job with what they have in resources. But Bolivar is a big place, not enough officers to be everywhere at once. I am certain that if someone wanted to, they could get in and out without being detected or caught.

Perhaps saying "not under any" was a poor choice of words...better to say "not being patrolled sufficiently to stop a serious effort"


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## hoosierplugger (May 24, 2004)

And why, exactly do we want a blitz of national media coverage? I was glad to see the idiots leave.

Craig


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## LIVIN (Oct 31, 2006)

Here are some pics from flying over yesterday. If you look at the ones from Boliver to High Island you will see some black military, and medical vehicles parked and driving around.

http://2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/showthread.php?t=180035


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## texasfisherman (Mar 9, 2007)

My sister lives in Columbus OH and believe me the people up there know we had one helluva storm. My sister lost shingles off her house and electricity for a longer period of time than me. When Ike rolled through up there she called wondering how anyone within 50 miles of the coast was still here. She said a large portion of Cincinnati was without power after Ike came through. You just can't expect people that have never seen or been through a disaster of this magnitude first hand to even comprehend.


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## John Galt (Aug 6, 2006)

Slightly Dangerous said:


> <<(Their suggestion was I could leave last Friday after work if I really, really needed to). They are also upset that their office in Houston isn't open: Quote "I mean, the storm was last Saturday for gosh sake, we're going to have to take some diciplinary action if people don't start showing up".>>
> 
> This is the point where I would politely suggest that the home office come and visit. If they refuse I would find work elsewhere...after telling them what I think of their lack of respect for the lives of their employees. Of course that's just me...and I'm rather impulsive (Texan).


I'd tell them the same thing. Then I'd post the name of the company. I'm pretty sure they'd never make a sale in Texas again.

SD, did you and yours make it through the storm OK? Were you able to take that overnight fishing trip the weekend of Sept 13th-14th you were planning to do?


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## jabx1962 (Nov 9, 2004)

I am working in California. The News about IKE is almost non existent. They did have a news flash about the Moron with the Lion on Crystal Beach. Other than that, nothing but a few Flyover Pics. from when GW was in Galvez.

3 of my Co-Workers from the Houston Area were able to fly out last thursday evening. I could not get a flight until friday morning and it was cancelled after boarding the plane.

This company that we are building this Process unit for have asked me daily if I have talked to my co-workers and when they were coming back. They do not want their "Schedule to Slip"

I finally got my *** full of thier ****, and told the HNIG. that my co-workers were gone until further notice, and if their schedule slips...we really could careless. 

The Big news here is all about the bail out of AIG, Lehman Bros, WAMU, etc...

And the Train that crashed because the Engineer was texting his little buddies, and he missed a stop signal, and collided with a Frieght Train.


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## En Fuego (Jul 26, 2006)

Me and my wife and kids hauled it to Denver on Wednesday last week. I am not sure about California (those people are on anohter planet anyway) or what channel these people were watching, but the news on Ike was plastered non-stop on both CNN and the Weather Channel. The only time CNN took a break from it was when Palin said something - anything - they have a love affair with that woman for some reason.

I also agree that the death toll could not POSSIBLY be that high - there would be relatives coming out of the wood work by now, and the sick media would NEVER pass up on that story.

I think all it boils down to at this point is "A" until a day or 2 ago, there was no practical way to GET to the places to see who was there or not there, and "B" they probably HAVE found some deceased souls and out of respect for their families, they are not plastering them all over our TVs.

You have to control the sheeple, or there will be mass hysteria stemming from partial truths or peoples imagination.

Don't believe me, look at some of the other threads on here. 
Conspiracy, Gov. cover up, next thing you know, someone will accuse Bush of blowing up the Seawall just before the storm hit to flood out all the poor people.


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## Gary (May 21, 2004)

En Fuego said:


> You have to control the sheeple, or there will be mass hysteria stemming from partial truths or peoples imagination.


What???


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## En Fuego (Jul 26, 2006)

Bad Rush Limbaugh refernce - after looking at it again, that statement could be seen as HORRIFICALY offensive to people on the island (many of whom I know and love) who lost too much to count - it was meant to be sarcasm that came off wrong - my apologies for that stupid reference.

My point was only to say that people are WAY to quick to jump on something as a conspiracy, as opposed to thinking about the more practical reasoning behind the actions.


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## BertS (May 21, 2004)

Gary said:


> En Fuego said:
> 
> 
> > You have to control the sheeple, or there will be mass hysteria stemming from partial truths or peoples imagination.
> ...


they are coming to get you Gary......lol......


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## warcat (May 22, 2004)

En Fuego said:


> ...I also agree that the death toll could not POSSIBLY be that high - there would be relatives coming out of the wood work by now, and the sick media would NEVER pass up on that story....


I don't know...
Logic tells me that the Galveston storm of 1900 killed many people. Those people stayed on the island because they didn't know the storm was coming til it was too late. With Ike, the people knew of the storm coming, but for their own reasons, also stayed. Granted, construction is better now than then, but not indestructibe. People in the way of the storm are still people in the way of the storm.

Those people experienced the same things as the people of the 1900 storm. Many have to had perished as did those in 1900.

I hope I am wrong.


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## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

I don't want anyone to take this the wrong way. I personally appreciate every single LEO or anyone else with a gun and badge doing what they had to do during all this. The problem isn't the guy on the street or in the patrol car or behind the desk at the station. The problem we have during natural disasters is the government is forced into "business". They have to buy and sell, and coordinate, and do all the things regular businesses do. But, they aren't really very good at that stuff. Government works good, because it moves slow, it has a process, it has a hiearchy, ect. That very element of it, makes it a poor business person. What we need during these events is strong law enforcement up front, and then get the state and feds in and out as fast as possible. Our local county judges (thank you Jim Y.) are the ones that need say who does what and when. Like I said, that's just my opinion, and I thank every single person that's stepped up to do things around here locally.


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## kenny (May 21, 2004)

This whole theory is BS. There aren't thousands dead or hundreds. CNN & Weather Channel have been running full coverage since the storm so the "throttling back" is BS too.
Git a grip. It was a bad storm that tore the **** out of the fourth largest city in the US along with Bolivar & Galveston......not a conspiracy.


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## trodery (Sep 13, 2006)

I have "Tin Foil Hats" for sale if anybody is in the market for one.


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## Stumpgrinder (Feb 18, 2006)

I s the whole media blackout stuff centered around Mayor Thomas's directive that only she and Leblanc talk to reporters ? 

If so, hell that is not a media "blackout" that is a boss telling her employees to shut their yap. I work in an oil refinery and if we have a disaster my standing order is for me to shut my mouth and direct media questions to the people that deal with the media in our company.

Mountain out of a mole hill. IMHO


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## Mike in Friendswood (May 21, 2004)

Don't back Kenny, tell us what you really think!


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## Monarchy (Jun 3, 2004)

15,000 folks?

High Island to Surfside is about 70 miles....which would give you one trooper every 25 feet. Yup, that'd probably do it, lol

I don't doubt law enforcement would like to keep quiet the fact that alot of Texas coast is wide open for troublemakers sneaking in...

I don't doubt some folks are gone and won't ever be found...

Anything incremental to that starts sounding a bit more like the bigfoot forum to me


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## Bayscout22 (Aug 9, 2007)

I was in Dallas and watched national coverage non-stop from my hotel. CNN, Fox News, The Weather Channel, MSNBC all had complete coverage. The only thing that they cut to other than storm coverage was the train wreck in California.


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## michaelbaranowski (May 24, 2004)

bayscout22,
I have to agree that doesn't sound like a media black-out to me either. I remember seeing news coverage from Thursday evening until Monday night, I was at work on Tuesday so I am not sure if it was still on. And Chronicle keeps having stories. So that doesn't sound like news black-out either.

Seems to me most of the time the media is on the way and cause more trouble thant they are worth. Plus they seem to make the worst of any story they cover.


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## SPI-FlatsCatter (Nov 3, 2005)

If a combination of the USCG, DHS, INS, TP&W, USAF and USN can't patrol 100 miles (or 500 for that matter) of coastline we're in deep do-do.

I can't buy into that part of the argument.


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## TXPalerider (May 21, 2004)

I think a lot of this is a little exaggerated. However, I also think it is possible there are reasons the USS Nassau is off the coast of Galveston, other than humanitarian relief. It very well might be likely the situation down there has made it extremely difficult to be sure/control who is coming in and out of that bay. And, all of the plants/refineries just inland of there are possibly very ripe terrorist targets.

Just a consideration.


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## FAT TIRE (Nov 25, 2004)

The HSC and port of Houston are closed. How many tankers and LNG ships are stacked up in the gulf? How many drilling rigs and platforms got hammered? Who is controlling the traffic, and maintaining the security of these vessels? Maybe the Marines, Navy, and Coast Guard? Once the ship channel is open a Navy boat will be moored in Galveston, with an Admiral running the show, just like New Orleans after Katrina.


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## Hotrod (Oct 11, 2006)

SSMike said:


> I would bet the loss of life is much greater than is being reported. There is no reason to plaster that all over the tv right now like the media whores did with Katrina. Let them do their job and we will find out in the end how bad is actually is.... Why people would stay on Bolivar is beyond me. Knowing that Bolivar would without a doubt be covered in water with no escape. I read one story from a survivor that watch his neighbor hang on for his life to the pillars of his house and then slipped away. Horrible.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080918/ap_on_re_us/ike_the_missing


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## En Fuego (Jul 26, 2006)

*Hey now!!*



Monarchy said:


> 15,000 folks?
> 
> Anything incremental to that starts sounding a bit more like the bigfoot forum to me


Hey now - thats awful close to home - the media blackout stuff is just a made up bunch of BS.

Bigfoot is real.

Apples and Oranges.


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## sandollr (Jun 6, 2008)

TXPalerider said:


> I think a lot of this is a little exaggerated. However, I also think it is possible there are reasons the USS Nassau is off the coast of Galveston, other than humanitarian relief. It very well might be likely the situation down there has made it extremely difficult to be sure/control who is coming in and out of that bay. And, all of the plants/refineries just inland of there are possibly very ripe terrorist targets.
> 
> Just a consideration.


And with Baytown being the largest refinery in the US, and the economy being controlled by oil right now, there's probably a really good reason for the Navy to be on our coast.


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## warcat (May 22, 2004)

Hotrod said:


> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080918/ap_on_re_us/ike_the_missing


Looks like there are thousands of relatives looking for their loved ones. Sadly, this death toll will rise into the thousands.


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## BALZTOWAL (Aug 29, 2006)

FROM WHAT I RECALL- "CERTAIN DEATH" IF THEY DON'T LEAVE AND IF PEOPLE DID SURVIVED GOD WAS LOOKING OUT FOR THEM.


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## surftime (Feb 9, 2006)

might be something to this seeing as he Marines just landed on Galveston Island - h,m,m,m


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## TXPalerider (May 21, 2004)

sandollr said:


> And with Baytown being the largest refinery in the US, and the economy being controlled by oil right now, there's probably a really good reason for the Navy to be on our coast.


And it appears there may be a couple more "big" boats sailing our seas real soon. Coincidence? I don't know. But, in this world's unsettled times, that sure seems like a whole lot of military assets committed to humanitarian relief.

Again, maybe it's just me......I'm just saying


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## Sow Trout (Jun 28, 2004)

That is not so different from the way our beaches are normally.


JohnHumbert said:


> I'm sure the LEO are doing a great job with what they have in resources. But Bolivar is a big place, not enough officers to be everywhere at once. I am certain that if someone wanted to, they could get in and out without being detected or caught.
> 
> Perhaps saying "not under any" was a poor choice of words...better to say "not being patrolled sufficiently to stop a serious effort"


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## boashna (May 28, 2004)

media will report what America watches , earth quake in another country killing 500000 gets one minute coverage , usa is not concern with Houston news ,when their pocket got emptied by aig drop and stock market crash in sep 2008 . even I dont want to hear about ike anymore as I lost big past couple of days in market and retirement plan. More AIG news,Fanie may Please


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## Hotrod (Oct 11, 2006)

Have a confirmed report of 280 poor souls found in the SLP area. God bless their souls!


This is not 2nd or 3rd hand or hearsay info either.


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## penubly (Aug 4, 2005)

Hotrod said:


> Have a confirmed report of 280 poor souls found in the SLP area. God bless their souls!
> 
> This is not 2nd or 3rd hand or hearsay info either.


If it's not reported and confirmed, then it is hearsay.

Anyone remember Ray Nagin saying they had thousands of dead people in the city? Was that accurate? Nope.

I'm sure that the toll will rise, but no one knows the full story yet.

Here's the latest from Chron.com


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## warcat (May 22, 2004)

penubly said:


> If it's not reported and confirmed, then it is hearsay.
> 
> Anyone remember Ray Nagin saying they had thousands of dead people in the city? Was that accurate? Nope.
> 
> ...


I thought the death toll from Katrina was over 1600. That sounds like thousands to me- at least A thousand.


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## penubly (Aug 4, 2005)

warcat said:


> I thought the death toll from Katrina was over 1600. That sounds like thousands to me- at least A thousand.


Shortly after the storm, Nagin said that there were thousands dead in the city of New Orleans. He asked for 10000 body bags.

1600 was the total, including other affected areas.

I'm not saying 1600 is minimal or trivial; I'm saying that what people said, guessed, or BS'd about was very different from *reality*.

It's bad enough that the coast has been blasted, and that thousands of peoples lives have been disrupted. Don't add to the misery by inuendo and rumor.


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## JohnHumbert (May 21, 2004)

*Had to chime in again...*

I feel I owe it to everyone to chime in again here because my comments are being taken way out of proportion - should have known that would have happened in this sort of forum. Let me clarify my comments a bit

(1) I don't think there's any sort of "conspiracy" or "cover-up". Just like there's a "fog of war", there exists a similar situation after a huge natural disaster - information is "foggy". There are good reasons for this. It is not a conspiracy or anything like that - it is reasonable and prudent for such vagueness of information. As so many have pointed out, there is no need for a media frenzy or to plaster information or grusome pictures. It is a GOOD thing for the "fog". I was simply pointing out for the good people of this board that, given the "unofficial" information seeping out - there are situations more serious than are being relayed by the media.

(2) Again, in my OPINION, the good folks that are trying to get to their homes, weekend spots, etc. need to think about some of these serious situations before they venture out. It should be expected that the military will take over the administration of the affect areas - and those folks don't mess around. In fact, since my original post this has already happened - even though it is not "officially" publicized by the media. I was simply trying to get the good folks here to THINK about these things - because I would hate to have someone get confronted by armed military unexpectedly and in a situation would someone could get hurt.

(3) There are, in fact - not rumor or innuendo, thousands of people missing and/or unaccounted for. What is their fate - who knows? Maybe we'll never know, because no "official" (civilian or military) is currently checking up on them. They may be sitting in Austin having a cold one, they may be on the island digging out, or they may be deceased. However, one thing is for certain - having people coming and going on the island is going to make the accounting for these folks just that much more difficult when the officials get around to finding these folks.

(4) Sadly, it is a cold hard fact that there are situations that need to be handled before deaths can be documented. First, the LIVING survivors need to be rescued. Next comes restoring services and conditions for the LIVING. Then there are a numerous other tasks, cleanup, roads, etc. All these things come before looking for those who have perished. Because there is little that can be done for those already dead. We all might have different priorities, but those in charge trying to get a handle on the situation have more than they can handle right now, and documenting deaths is probably not on the top of their lists. Nothing wrong with that, IMHO - doesn't mean they are conspiring or withholding information - just means its not a priority. But that fact may be hard for some to swallow.

(5) Normally, the Law Enforcements agencies spend a lot of their time "patrolling" the areas, with their (always) limited resources pushed to the limit. I don't know of a single PD, SO, or such that doesn't wish or need for more manpower. In times of these emergencies, their person resources are kept very, very busy handling "immediate" situations such as rescue, crowd control, infrastructure, etc. They can handle these things and STILL keep the same level of "patrol" - they just can't. They are extremely fine folks, but they are only human. Now let's run some "numbers". Let say - as a starting point for understanding, not sure if my numbers are in anyway reasonable - you allocate 2 people to patrol 10 sq miles. If there is 500 sq miles to patrol, and you provide 24x7 coverage in 3 shifts - you need 300 people to accomplish this. You begin to see how the numbers could add up fast. In addition, with the military you need to have LOTS more than that to support the 300 "active" men. You need cooks, truck drivers, etc., etc. - just like you would in a war. To enable 1000 men to "fight", you might need 5000 men in support. Anyone who's been in the military knows this. So it is not unreasonable to think the military might need 10,000 bodies or more to run the campaign - not to mention those needed with infrastructure repair, cleanup, door-to-door searches, etc. Anybody who thinks the current overworked, understaffed PDs, SO's, and such has the manpower to handle the situation down there is smoking something. And that's no ill reflection on these hard-working LEO's.

(6) Anytime you have a large area that loses infrastructure and effective law enforcement you have the same thing happen. Whether it is in New Orleans, Somalia, Afghanistan, Bagdad - the same thing happens - people taking advantage of the chaos. The area effected by this storm is over 1000 sq miles - maybe much larger. Don't you think having a 1000-2000 sq mile area in a critical place in the US represents an issue of national security? You bet it does! Now this is a bold statement and people won't want to hear it or acknowledge it - but we should consider areas of GI and Bolivar as a "war zone" in many ways. Not suggestion that is shooting going on or such, but anyone who has been in a war zone knows what I am talking about. If you can understand what I mean - consider this: Does it make sense trying get to your property or "setting up shop" or go fishing or "sight-seeing" in a war zone? Some will say "yes" and some will say "no". Certainly there are people who live every day in a war zone - look at Isreal - and learn to deal with it. But to think that you can return to G-Town or Bolivar and live and play like you've always done pre-Ike is, again in my opinion, unrealistic. It will be quite some time before it's like that again. Simple things...like your boat breaking down...become a much more serious situation for you and the others down there in the "zone". For example, you head out to check on your property by boat and hit a submerged freezer debris and put a hole in your boat. Who you gonna call? Not many "recs" out there and the emergency personell already have their hands full, but they will probably break off what they are doing and come get your sorry arse. Now you've become part of the problem. And what if you break down - even with a simple flat tire on Bolivar and the only people you run across are some armed looters who look longingly at your stuff? Whose gonna stop em? OK, you pack a gun with you....now you run across a military patrol and all they first see is a couple of guys with guns in a place they're not supposed to be? Y'all beginning to see what I am saying?

This is serious folks ... implications go much farther than just storm damage in the neighborhood. Will it get better? Absolutely! Things WILL return to normal, I have great faith in our country and the people of Texas. But don't expect it to happen within a few weeks.


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## mfloyd (Apr 5, 2005)

BAck to the original thread-Media blackout, no fly zone
I was in Galveston for the last two day. Multiple aircraft flying around, The no fly zone was probably while the President and or Governor were in the area, The no fly zone would be closed for a period of time longer than either of the two were actually going to be there, to prevent any timed attacks on the Presidents aircraft. Galveston is a mess, it is not totally destroyed. Most houses have water damage if not wind damage. There is no Water,sewer or power, lines are down all over the place, traffic signals do not work and if you are not paying attention you will run right through an intersection if the the wire doesn't damage you vehicle or worse.

The Mayor I believe is correct to keep everyone except essential personnel.
There is no water for you to clean with, there is no place to go to the bathroom. Which doesn't seem like a big deal for all the manly men, but when 58,000 people start using the great outdoors it will be ugly very soon. Even if you have a generator I'm not sure it would be safe to power your house because of the water in the electrical outlets and such. When all the reidents start bringing cars the roads will be clogged, because you probably won't be able to park in your driveway. This will slow down the utility and water crews, With all the cars sitting in the way crews won't be able to service the power grid with out asking someone move their vehicle. Power is a primary concern once the power is restored, water is next, the storm surge took out any back up generators except ones that were built up high.

I know how anxious everyone is to get to their place, but remember the Cops are not the ones that issued the orders, they are carrying out their orders.

NOW for the good news-I toured from 61st past Jamica Beach on FM 3005, If you have a house in that area you are gonna be happy I hope. The newer constructed houses faired very well,especially the ones on the north side of 3005 The ground level portion of the house usually blew out with the storm surge, the stilts stood well, and the upstairs on a large portion of the houses that I looked at were in good shape. I saw very little roof damage that was significant! If you had a boat on your property it probably is not there unless you did a great job of securing it. If you didn't have a boat, you probably have someone else's in your yard. There is plenty of leaves/limbs/fishing rods/string/anchor line/trash cans/ice chest/refrigerators and various things in everyones yard and maybe in their ground level storage. 

Caution-The snakes have been displaced with the water, The group that I was with on the I-45 check point found about 10 yesterday-LIVE 
Becareful not to expose yourself while cleaning up, and I almost forgot UTMB is not operational, Someone mentioned that either the Army or volunteer Doctors are manning the place. Not to slight the Quality of them but they are working in less the desirable conditions with limited equipment.

Good Luck to all


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## John Galt (Aug 6, 2006)

TXPalerider said:


> I think a lot of this is a little exaggerated. However, I also think it is possible there are reasons the USS Nassau is off the coast of Galveston, other than humanitarian relief. It very well might be likely the situation down there has made it extremely difficult to be sure/control who is coming in and out of that bay. And, all of the plants/refineries just inland of there are possibly very ripe terrorist targets.
> 
> Just a consideration.


I'm not an admiral, but I think this storm is a great opportunity for training. I suspect that the military will be doing more and more natural disaster relief as a "hearts and minds" campaign (The US reputation was improved by the Tsunami and Burma typhoon releif). It makes sense that they'd use this as a training opportunity.


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## Sow Trout (Jun 28, 2004)

If it is not hearsay that means that yhou have seen and counted the bodies?


Hotrod said:


> Have a confirmed report of 280 poor souls found in the SLP area. God bless their souls!
> 
> This is not 2nd or 3rd hand or hearsay info either.


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## Bevo&Pevo (Jul 22, 2008)

My source on the island tells me there is considerable loss of life down towards the West end. He doesn't do body counts, far to horrific. I have clearence to get into Galveston, but no desire to go unless my boss tells me to. I wish the best for those who are in the squallor and doing what they can; most definitely for my friend. Somehow my trust for the media to keep things in perspective is not good. They just can't report the news; they feel the need to sensalalize(sp) every little thing. I'd hate to see the reaction to what I feel strongly is being dealt with.


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## MEGABITE (May 21, 2004)

If there are so many bodies laying around, why are they letting everybody that lives in Jamaica Beach to go look and leave tomorrow?

http://galvestondailynews.com/story.lasso?ewcd=7412d044130af5ca


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## Hotrod (Oct 11, 2006)

Sow Trout said:


> If it is not hearsay that means that yhou have seen and counted the bodies?


My source is a badge and a gun, why lie.


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## CoastalOutfitters (Aug 20, 2004)

a 1 week old body and 1 live camera feed is enough..................give it a rest, how would you feel if it was your family ? these people deserve more....


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## kenny (May 21, 2004)

CoastalOutfitters said:


> a 1 week old body and 1 live camera feed is enough..................give it a rest, how would you feel if it was your family ? these people deserve more....


'nuff said.....nothing to see here so move along.


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## xtreme01 (May 12, 2008)

My wife works in the emergency room and some paramedics where in the other day that had gone up there to help out and one personally handled 89 victims himself, alot with there social,name written on their arms. My thought is if i knew that i needed to write that information on myself because someone thought i would die, i think i would get the **** out....



Bevo&Pevo said:


> My source on the island tells me there is considerable loss of life down towards the West end. He doesn't do body counts, far to horrific. I have clearence to get into Galveston, but no desire to go unless my boss tells me to. I wish the best for those who are in the squallor and doing what they can; most definitely for my friend. Somehow my trust for the media to keep things in perspective is not good. They just can't report the news; they feel the need to sensalalize(sp) every little thing. I'd hate to see the reaction to what I feel strongly is being dealt with.


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## MB (Mar 6, 2006)

*Wheres the central morgue?*

If there was large scale loss of life than there would have been a central morgue set up with several reefer trailers to store all the bodies.....

This is something I've not seen or herd about.....

*MB *


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## ShadMan (May 21, 2004)

The article someone posted a link to back around post #38 or so stated that there are two refrigerated trailers that are being used to store bodies until autopsies can be completed.


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## penubly (Aug 4, 2005)

*Chronicle article calls BS on rumor!*

From the Chronicle website:

*For some, rumors harbor 'the truth' of Ike's carnage*

*Officials say talk of mass fatalities has no basis in fact*

*By ROSANNA RUIZ Copyright 2008 Houston Chronicle*

Images from Galveston and other areas along Texas' coast reveal the scope of Hurricane Ike's destructive power, while the death toll remains relatively low.

But, for some, the _real_ story of the lives lost to Hurricane Ike remains untold.

Thousands of bodies are floating in the Gulf of Mexico, dangling from trees or otherwise obscured by debris and unaccounted for, these people insist in online forums and posted reader comments. A government conspiracy and media blackout are afoot, they say, which explains why those images remain unseen.

Coast Guard rescuers, law enforcement agencies and government officials all say otherwise, but they're part of the conspiracy, right?

It is human nature in moments of frayed nerves to allow imaginations to run roughshod. After storms and other disasters, rumors are certain to swirl.

*Remember Katrina?*

Recall the rapes and mass murders we heard went on at New Orleans' Superdome after Hurricane Katrina? They were later revealed as exaggerations. The stories about Ike's yet-unaccounted-for victims invariably come from those who say they know someone who has photos of them or who talked to an acquaintance of a pilot who flew over the storm-ravaged areas. One message to the Houston Chronicle was about someone who tried to head out into the Gulf on a boat to check an oil platform but had to turn back because of all the bodies.

"The rumors are not true," said Jim Guidry, a Galveston County spokesman.

Galveston County officials, he said, continue to cite six deaths as the county's only known storm-related fatalities.

*A reason to believe*

The death toll may rise, but likely not to the extent that some fear. After the hurricane that hit Galveston in 1900, bodies were found months later. Searchers have swept over Galveston Bay and have not reported thousands of victims afloat in those waters. Jonathan Rice, a Coast Guard diver, said he and other rescuers did not spot any bodies on their missions.

So, why are some so willing to believe that there are forces at work to conceal mass deaths?

Carl Smith, a Northwestern University professor who has written three books about Chicago and the fires of 1871, offers an explanation:

"In moments of stress like this, deeply held fears and deeply held hopes come to the surface," said Smith, an English and American studies and history professor.

Some may believe the powers-that-be want to cover up mass storm deaths because blame might be pinned on them for failing to clear evacuation zones.

Smith said that storm victims are simply in vulnerable positions. "The mind starts spinning out scenarios, and rumors fly," he said.

Then again, some might say, he could be in on it, too.

_[email protected]__chron.com_

That's why I called BS on these stories. Some people just have to spout utter nonsense in these situations. Let's get the guys who "heard" these stories name names. I'll bet they can't/won't.


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## warcat (May 22, 2004)

penubly said:


> From the Chronicle website:
> 
> *For some, rumors harbor 'the truth' of Ike's carnage*
> 
> ...


The total will slowly rise all year, ending in at least 1 thousand. At this point there are still thousands of people unaccounted for- eventually they'll be found. Some will be perfectly fine in other cities, some will be dead. People can't seriously believe that only 6 lives were lost due to this storm? Can they?


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

warcat said:


> The total will slowly rise all year, ending in at least 1 thousand. At this point there are still thousands of people unaccounted for- eventually they'll be found. Some will be perfectly fine in other cities, some will be dead. People can't seriously believe that only 6 lives were lost due to this storm? Can they?


 Not all of them will be found: they're not going to manage to get much out of the gulf after a week or two. We'll have a bunch of people just listed as "missing" forever. It'll take a long, long time for anyone to nail down a legitimate toll.


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## bk005 (Feb 23, 2005)

Whats the poing of these topics? Do you mourn for them like there family will? Does it matter if its 6, 26 or 2600? Its like some here wish the toll was higher, or are feeding on the whole destruction bit. 

Blackouts, coverups...BS man. I realize everyones stressed to the breaking point, but focus on positive suff. 

And thats all I got to say about that.


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## Hotrod (Oct 11, 2006)

penubly said:


> From the Chronicle website:
> 
> *For some, rumors harbor 'the truth' of Ike's carnage*
> 
> ...


You gonna believe 1 newpaper writer? There are to many people here that have friends as emergency responders with the same story. I'm not stressed over this thing. Just pizzed off on a cover up, WHY! Alotta people just want to know what happened to the friends and family members, tell em the TRUTH! 1500 people are unaccounted for right now.

The night of the storm around 2am I was listening to the radio and they had a report of someone calling for rescue on Crystal Beach. He was on the 2nd floor of his beach house in waist deep water. Do you think he made it as well as the other's who stayed. Did you see the story on the ex Navy seal who abandoned his beach house after it started to float away. He rode out the storm on a picnic table and landed by Smith's Point. He crossed all of East Bay on a table. He had seal training. Just tell the truth is all I'm asking. And if you have a problem with these responses then don't open the thread!


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## penubly (Aug 4, 2005)

Hotrod said:


> You gonna believe 1 newpaper writer?!


No, I'm going to believe the officials quoted in the story, rather than "this guy I know told me this" stories being passed on message boards. As I said earlier, I'll be the first to apologize if you are right. If you are so insistent, then tell us the name of the LEO who told you the story.



Hotrod said:


> 1500 people are unaccounted for right now.


Where are you getting this number from? According to Galveston Emergency Management, only 150 have called to report missing people. Now that may only account for Galveston Island, but you earlier said something about 280+ near SLP.



Hotrod said:


> There are to many people here that have friends as emergency responders with the same story.


Fine, then tell us who they are so we can check. And it's "too many people"



Hotrod said:


> Just pizzed off on a cover up, WHY!


What cover up? Let's prove your story, by checking with the first responders, before we agree that there even is a cover up.



Hotrod said:


> And if you have a problem with these responses then don't open the thread!


I do not have a problem with any of this; I just want you to name your source so it can be verified independently.


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## Hotrod (Oct 11, 2006)

Dude your nutts.


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## munson (Nov 12, 2005)

xtreme01 said:


> My wife works in the emergency room and some paramedics where in the other day that had gone up there to help out and one personally handled 89 victims himself, alot with there social,name written on their arms. My thought is if i knew that i needed to write that information on myself because someone thought i would die, i think i would get the **** out....


AMEN...Man this will PO alot of people, but why the h#$% would you stay when you were told you were gonna die. Now I am all about protecting my property tooth and nail, but come on man. These people had families that will no longer have a father or a son. And for what, to save a stereo that was gonna get trashed from the water. I just dont get it. You were stupid if you stayed. And further, you put many peoples lives in danger that had to come and save your dumb a$%.


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## Bobby (May 21, 2004)

munson said:


> AMEN...Man this will PO alot of people, but why the h#$% would you stay when you were told you were gonna die. Now I am all about protecting my property tooth and nail, but come on man. These people had families that will no longer have a father or a son. And for what, to save a stereo that was gonna get trashed from the water. I just dont get it. You were stupid if you stayed. And further, you put many peoples lives in danger that had to come and save your dumb a$%.


Ok lets say your dumbarse was told by your boss that you had to work Thursday afternoon or you would lose your job and that you would have no problem getting out the Friday morning. You were with a large group that was told the same thing. Now when you get up Friday morning and start getting ready to leave you find that all the roads are blocked with water and it is rising. The ferry isn't running. So you have no way out. Now I know you are really smart so you wouldn't have a problem just jumping up and flying over all that water. But these were just plain folks that believed what they were told. They got where they could to survive and called for help. Some of them got rescued and then the wind got so bad the choppers couldn't fly anymore. They were then told to write their SS and name on their bodys somewhere so they could be identified. SO tell me what you would have done in their place different. Besides saying you would have left Thursday and quit the job?


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## Guest (Sep 22, 2008)

i'm right here in victoria and i have been lead to believe that the strom wasn't that bad.my sister lives in lake jackson and from there they are only with out power and 1-2 trees down.


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## w_r_ranch (Jan 14, 2005)

Bobby said:


> Besides saying you would have left Thursday and quit the job?


Wouldn't quit & leave anyway. If they had a problem with that, tell them you'll see them in court for wrongful dismissal after the storm. Given the aftermath, who do you think a jury would side with? I know who I would side with...

Personally, why would a person put up with a job/boss that is THAT stupid? There is a limit to how much a person will risk his & his family's lives for... I don't care how much the salary is.

By the way Bobby, my wife & I are sorry to hear about your loss. We hope that you (& everyone else too) have a rapid recovery.


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## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

w_r_ranch said:


> Wouldn't quit & leave anyway. If they had a problem with that, tell them you'll see them in court for wrongful dismissal after the storm. Given the aftermath, who do you think a jury would side with? I know who I would side with...


in texas, an employer can fire you for practically any reason he sees fit and you have little or no legal recourse.

unless the firing is for reasons that can be proven discriminatory, or if your employer fires you because you were asked by him to do something illegal and you refused, and you can prove it, wrongful termination suits rarely fly in texas.


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## munson (Nov 12, 2005)

Bobby said:


> Ok lets say your dumbarse was told by your boss that you had to work Thursday afternoon or you would lose your job and that you would have no problem getting out the Friday morning. You were with a large group that was told the same thing. Now when you get up Friday morning and start getting ready to leave you find that all the roads are blocked with water and it is rising. The ferry isn't running. So you have no way out. Now I know you are really smart so you wouldn't have a problem just jumping up and flying over all that water. But these were just plain folks that believed what they were told. They got where they could to survive and called for help. Some of them got rescued and then the wind got so bad the choppers couldn't fly anymore. They were then told to write their SS and name on their bodys somewhere so they could be identified. SO tell me what you would have done in their place different. Besides saying you would have left Thursday and quit the job?


Bobby, are you telling me that anyone who stayed cause their boss told them to and had to be airlifted off their roof or died in the storm made a SMART decision? Are there people out there who were told that they HAD to stay or they would be fired? Are you also telling me that the majority of the people that stayed did so out of fear of losing their jobs? Well maybe a dozen or so, but there were THOUSANDS that stayed not because they were told to by their boss, but simply cause they wanted to. So dont lecture me about those that HAD to stay. The only people that HAD to stay were first responders, and they were well outta harms way. MOST people stayed due to their own desire to ride out the storm, I figure less than 1% stayed cause their boss said they would be fired.

This is a stupid argument. My simple point is that by staying you risked your own life, the life of your family, and the life of those that had to come and rescue you. And for what...Its just wasnt worth it. You were told well before Friday morning that if you stayed " you were gonna die and we are not gonna help you", or something along those lines.


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## MLCinNCTX (May 30, 2007)

mastercylinder said:


> in texas, an employer can fire you for practically any reason he sees fit and you have little or no legal recourse.
> 
> unless the firing is for reasons that can be proven discriminatory, or if your employer fires you because you were asked by him to do something illegal and you refused, and you can prove it, wrongful termination suits rarely fly in texas.


A lot of people think an employer can release someone at any time and that may be true for a mom & pop company with limited assets, but with a company with say a 1000 or more employees it is not.

If you hire someone and 2-3 weeks later determine that they can not perform the job it will take about 60 days to release that person. You have to demonstrate that you as an employer attempted to train the employee even if they were hired as already being trained. Now someone will say there is a 90 day probation period, the to is BS and will not pass the grin test in court. That is why many companies have gone to a "temp to perm" arrangement when bringing on new employees. If they don't work out the Temp Agency has to deal with it.

The exception to having a performance plan in place for sufficent time before release is if the employee causes an unsafe/hostile situation, or theft. An example would be an assault on another employee or a craft person reporting to work drunk or high. With theft you better have video or at least two witnesses.

This is not the case with a small operation as most lawyers won't take the case if the money is not there particularly if it looks like it will go to court.


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## boom! (Jul 10, 2004)

mastercylinder said:


> in texas, an employer can fire you for practically any reason he sees fit and you have little or no legal recourse.
> 
> unless the firing is for reasons that can be proven discriminatory, or if your employer fires you because you were asked by him to do something illegal and you refused, and you can prove it, wrongful termination suits rarely fly in texas.


Dying ain't much of a living. _Jose Whales_


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## w_r_ranch (Jan 14, 2005)

mastercylinder said:


> in texas, an employer can fire you for practically any reason he sees fit and you have little or no legal recourse. unless the firing is for reasons that can be proven discriminatory, or if your employer fires you because you were asked by him to do something illegal and you refused, and you can prove it, wrongful termination suits rarely fly in texas.




Wrongful termination is being fired from a job without "cause" - for no good reason. Although employees can be dismissed for economic or performance reasons (best have a paper trail), they cannot be dismissed frivolously. I believe putting an employee's & his family's lives in danger (given the proximity of the hurricane) pretty much negates a 'cause' here in Texas.

The boss may be a real a-hole & try to screw you down the road (remember that paper trail) however if a person keeps a 'job diary' of his boss' efforts at retaliation & the names of those that witness his efforts, then that constitutes retaliation. There are federal and state laws protect employees against retaliation from their employers. I doubt that HIS bosses would consider his causing this little legal problem to be career-enhancing move.

Like I said earlier, _why would a person put up with a job/boss that is THAT stupid? There is a limit to how much a person will risk his & his family's lives for... I don't care how much the salary is.

_


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## squidmotion (Apr 5, 2007)

...


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## ShadMan (May 21, 2004)

mastercylinder said:


> in texas, an employer can fire you for practically any reason he sees fit and you have little or no legal recourse.
> 
> unless the firing is for reasons that can be proven discriminatory, *or if your employer fires you because you were asked by him to do something illegal and you refused, and you can prove it*, wrongful termination suits rarely fly in texas.


I believe a government "mandatory evacuation" order would fall into this area. The employer would have his arse handed to him in court for firing an employee that refused to ignore a government order.


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