# 25' cat sinks off Freeport



## mr crab (Feb 13, 2009)

Anybody have specifics on this situation?

https://m.panews.com/2018/08/22/6-rescued-from-sinking-vessel/

Sent from my Moto E (4) Plus using Tapatalk


----------



## saltwatersensations (Aug 30, 2004)

damnit man! Too many this year


----------



## jamesw (Dec 1, 2014)

Dang! That is bad news for sure. Lots of cat sinkings this year. I hope that we can find out more about what happened so we can all learn what to do differently. The article just says lost power and took on water which isn't very specific.

James


----------



## Wizness (Jun 15, 2011)

ShawnQ saw them out there and I believe it was an electrical issue. Bilge pumps stopped working and they took on water.


----------



## Momma's Worry (Aug 3, 2009)

jamesw said:


> Dang! That is bad news for sure. Lots of cat sinkings this year. I hope that we can find out more about what happened so we can all learn what to do differently. The article just says lost power and took on water which isn't very specific.
> 
> James


no more cats or mono than last year or the year before.......far back as I

keep up with ....one or two per week if weather is good ...


----------



## mr crab (Feb 13, 2009)

Yeah....hoping to learn from their situation


jamesw said:


> Dang! That is bad news for sure. Lots of cat sinkings this year. I hope that we can find out more about what happened so we can all learn what to do differently. The article just says lost power and took on water which isn't very specific.
> 
> James


Sent from my Moto E (4) Plus using Tapatalk


----------



## Drewm717 (Aug 3, 2015)

My dad and his crew were the ones who brought them in. They are unsure why they were taking on water. When the electronics went out is when they noticed they were taking on water. 

They heard the distress call and got cordinates from coast guard and were 20 miles west of the sinking cat. They determined they could be on site sooner than the coast guard boat. As they got closer the coast guard got an updated epirb and they had drifted roughly 1.5 miles off. Luckily the sinking cat had a flare lite and were able to find them.

When they arrived the motors were already under water, they were able to get all six on his boat. At that time the coast guard helicopter arrived. Shortly after the boat couldn’t be found. They got them back to Freeport at 10pm.


----------



## Robert.Parson (Sep 7, 2004)

As a (new to me) cat owner, I have noticed it is hard to get to the bilge, and its only through a hatch in the motor splash well 
So, if a bilge pump does, what would be the best way to prepare for that happenstance.
Should I try to prepare for that by having a spare bilge pump on an extension cord that I can drop in the hatch ?
That would force me to leave the hatch off to allow the pump to put water over board ..
Or should I think about trying to get the water out thru another Port somewhere else ?
I do have two pumps per bilge, but they are on the same switch so if a wire fries below deck, I am SOL. 

Maybe Boatwerx can can change that up for me...
Bryan/Dillon, what are some safe options on that ?

Sent from my E6810 using Tapatalk


----------



## Robert.Parson (Sep 7, 2004)

Drewn717
Thank your dad for me. That's a sharp person, listening to the radio and paying attention to his surroundings. 
Any of us that do listen, can get distracted by things going on aboard your own vessel and easily have missed that. 

Sent from my E6810 using Tapatalk


----------



## Wizness (Jun 15, 2011)

Robert.Parson said:


> As a (new to me) cat owner, I have noticed it is hard to get to the bilge, and its only through a hatch in the motor splash well
> So, if a bilge pump does, what would be the best way to prepare for that happenstance.
> Should I try to prepare for that by having a spare bilge pump on an extension cord that I can drop in the hatch ?
> That would force me to leave the hatch off to allow the pump to put water over board ..
> ...


I have a spare bilge pump with alligator clips and a hand pump as well. Best advice is to make sure your hatch covers have good seals/gaskets. That's the one spot cat's take water over constantly is the splash wells. I just replaced my splash well hatches and get no water in the bilge at all. You really don't have any other option to pump the water out other than going through the splash well hatch, at least I don't on my Worldcat. Also I always test my bilge pumps and float switches before I go offshore.


----------



## ShawnQ (May 21, 2004)

We changed our heading towards the boat in distress once we finally heard the position. By the time we got close, we saw my boys in blue on scene, with a 65 Dolphin overhead, 45' response boat on scene, and what looked like a c144 flying even higher. The good samaritan had already picked them up by the time we got in sight.

I talked to them at the ramp and they said everytime they tried to reach in and mess with the batteries, which were submerged/wet, they were getting shocked. That prevented them from fixing it.

Fortunately they all made it out ok. 

Kudos to the good samaritan for changing his plans to help another.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


----------



## Captn C (May 21, 2004)

Mandatory to have on broad; 

Hand operated bilge pump 
Mask w/fins


I'm sure the cats battery failed when they were half full of water. A hand operated pump will keep you above water incase it takes a while for someone to arrive. 

The mask and fins, if conditions favor it, you can jump in and try to find the problem.

I've had two close in counters. My batteries are fairly high in the boat so they never went under water. Both times the auto flapper switch bilge failed...and my manual switch wouldn't power the pumps. I have two pumps in a mono hull. The first time the manual switch needed the off-on treatment a couple times and the pumps came on. The second time a wire had came loose at the switch. That was the last push pull switch I used on my boat. They are toggle switches now.

Anyway...the manual pump removed the water so I could take the time to find out why my pumps didn't come on. By the design hull design my boat takes on a little water all day. 

I also installed a high water alarm that gives me a very early notice that the water is too high in the bilge.


----------



## John the fisherman (Nov 19, 2012)

High water alarms I would recommend in a cat. I always keep an eye on my splashwells and if I see them filling up I check them. I have switched my covers to the armstrong its a compression cover works much better than original, plus I ordered a spare armstrong and drilled a hole to run a hose thru it and sealed it with silicone with a bilge pump attached to it with alligator clamps so I can drop in and seal up and run wires over gunnel. I have had to use it 2 times. Once a bilge pump went out, other time a ground wire came loose on bilge pump. I am also adding a battery for electronics in center console to keep away from water.


----------



## fishinguy (Aug 5, 2004)

I keep a throw down and manual pump on my boat. I will probably install a high water alarm this year too. My auto bilge lights up on my switch panel when it kicks on so it works as a good early indicator. I do test it frequently, I wash down my boat in the water alot so I usually have it kick on at least once every time I take my boat out.


----------



## Robert.Parson (Sep 7, 2004)

Wizness
How do you check your float switches. By hand ? Just flip it up to make sure it works ? Mine are internal on these pumps. By I do check the switiwhile the boat is on the sling to make sure I can hear it running.

CaptC
A hand operated pump like this one ?








J T F
Is your high water alarm wired to a light in the dash ?
What brand, do you know ?








Sent from my E6810 using Tapatalk


----------



## Wizness (Jun 15, 2011)

Robert.Parson said:


> Wizness
> How do you check your float switches. By hand ? Just flip it up to make sure it works ? Mine are internal on these pumps. By I do check the switiwhile the boat is on the sling to make sure I can hear it running.
> 
> CaptC
> ...


I have a hand pump like the one above. I fill my splash wells up with water until they kick on the night before in my driveway. I haven't installed a high water alarm but might this winter when I do a few projects.


----------



## ShawnQ (May 21, 2004)

I use these to auto-activate my bilge pumps:
http://waterwitchinc.com/product/model-101-bilge-switch/










They are cheap, there is no float to stick/fail, and there is nothing mechanical about them. Water touches the mount, and the circle, and they'll close the circuit.

I have one mounted with a SS Hose clamp around the bilge pump itself, and one mounted a little higher for the 2nd pump.

They'll work for alarms, or to power the pumps.

There's a guy on thehulltruth who sells them cheap.


----------



## mstrelectricman (Jul 10, 2009)

ShawnQ said:


> I use these to auto-activate my bilge pumps:
> http://waterwitchinc.com/product/model-101-bilge-switch/
> 
> 
> ...


Now that looks like a good part.

Does anyone know what brand and model the 25' cat was?


----------



## Stir It Up (May 21, 2015)

One of our 3 bilge pumps is on an electronic water detector and that bilge pump is hard wired straight to the batteries terminals. That way even if power is turn off at the perko switch or the circuit to the dash switch fails the pump will run because the circuit with the high water switch is wired hot to the battery. 

A high water alarm is a must have. We also have a large spare bilge pump with alligator clips and I believe this is a must have. 
I would also never go out with out testing that all my pumps are working. 

All of this is very fresh in my mind after our recent incident. We got lucky and thankfully we were prepared and it saved us. We were minutes from deploying the life raft. When your time comes, and it will come if you do this long enough, you donâ€™t want to be worried about getting pumps working. You want to be worried about plugging the hole. There wonâ€™t be time to fix bilge pumps... it will also just add to the panic and make it even more difficult to stay calm and work through the situation. 

Oh and I can attest to being shocked while reaching into a full bilge. Our trim tab solenoids were submerged (and they are mounted high in the bilge) and when I dove off into the bilge to try to find the hole I was shocked pretty bad and I couldnâ€™t get out fast enough. I started yelling and my crew members pulled me out of the bilge by my legs. Ended up with bruised ribs and will have a scar on my ribs from the gash I received when they pulled me out. Hahaha that scar will always be a little reminder to make sure my bilge pumps are working. Hahaha 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ShawnQ (May 21, 2004)

mstrelectricman said:


> Now that looks like a good part.
> 
> Does anyone know what brand and model the 25' cat was?


I heard the CG say Glacier Bay, and I talked to a passenger at the ramp who said it was a glacier bay. I went to clean fish real quick, and came back to give them my bags of snapper for their troubles, and they were pulling away. So I never verified with the owner.

The trailer was older, so I'm assuming a slightly older cat. It was dark when we went by, couldn't see anything if it was still above water.


----------



## Momma's Worry (Aug 3, 2009)

*Bilge pumps*

Our Grady now sports 4 of these all with alarms... wired to lighted rocker switches and flashing warning lights......main bilge has two 2000gph with one 10" higher than the one in the sump(back-up) ...bout 20gal dif....
forward bilge (30gal cap) and 3' 6" full span hull extension (motor bracket )...all bulkhead mounted ,not hull bottom ....yes there will always be a small puddle in there.....not a factor

two bronze through hull fittings (seacock) with levered valves(on the pre launch check list ) all others are above the water line.....

I got motivated last year, at the rash of boats going down,to re-place the older smaller pumps and single alarm .....you don't need pumps till you need one .....then overkill excess capability is just fine .....point is maintain situational awareness and do not let anything get out of hand

before doing something about it.....

SeasFlow ...$39.95 free freight ,no tax ,E-Bay seller MarineNow


----------



## ColeS (Apr 19, 2005)

Shawn, I've been using these Water Witch switches as well, both as high water alarms and as float switches to activate the bilge pumps. I'm noticing, though, when the seas are a little rough the bilge pump gets activated frequently due to, I think, splashing water in the bilge. And at the end of the day the bilge pump finally just stays on until I open the Armstrong hatch and wipe off the sensor. Have you noticed this?

Cole



ShawnQ said:


> I use these to auto-activate my bilge pumps:
> http://waterwitchinc.com/product/model-101-bilge-switch/
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## jamesw (Dec 1, 2014)

The problem with the Cat designs I've seen is that you can not get to the bilges or bilge pumps without opening the pie plate hatches in the splash wells. If you open the plates in any kind of seas you will get tons of water pouring into the bilge through those hatches - the opposite of what you want to happen.

It's not as much of an issue if your motors are functioning because the splashwells will be clear while running. But if you can't get your motors running you are in a pickle.

If you're not under power and you're taking on water it's pretty much impossible to service the rear bilge without making the problem worse. 

Recommendation is obviously to replace those pie-plates with good sealing ones. Second (for a World Cat) would be to make some kind of access point to the bilge through the area under the livewell or fish-box where the batteries live. You could quickly rig up an emergency pump that way and connect to a battery.

HTH
James


----------



## ColeS (Apr 19, 2005)

PS--Sorry to hijack the thread with my previous. 

In answer to Robert Parson's question about opening the Armstrong hatches to access the bilge pumps, I would NEVER open those hatches at sea. They're big enough to flood a hull in seconds. (shudder)

I have a spare pump with long enough leads to drop down into a deck plate opening up by the console, and I check it every season. I like Captain C's manual pump idea as well and will get one.

High water alarms are cheap and simple. They can alert you to trouble long before the batteries become flooded.

Cole


----------



## ShawnQ (May 21, 2004)

ColeS said:


> Shawn, I've been using these Water Witch switches as well, both as high water alarms and as float switches to activate the bilge pumps. I'm noticing, though, when the seas are a little rough the bilge pump gets activated frequently due to, I think, splashing water in the bilge. And at the end of the day the bilge pump finally just stays on until I open the Armstrong hatch and wipe off the sensor. Have you noticed this?
> 
> Cole


I just had the boat in rough(ish) water yesterday for the first time, and the first time I saw the 'bilge 1' light I immediately opened the splashwell hatch and saw there was very little water on the switch, and none actually standing in the bilge, so it definitely splashed. It stayed on for a good bit, and then shut off. I haven't used it enough to know how much of an issue that will be. I'd rather it turn on then not, I guess...

Later in the day I noticed I was pushing a small amount of water through a leaking rub-rail seal, which was getting just enough water in the bilge to allow it to keep splashing. So, pump 1 was on for a good part of the trip despite having minimal water in the bilge. Pump 2 has the switch mounted much higher and I never saw it turn on. I may just move the switch up a little bit. It's also in a spot that is easier to splash than it could be, if that makes sense.

I could always shield it, by basically building a 3-sided box around it that will only allow submersion to turn it on. That may be the best option.



jamesw said:


> The problem with the Cat designs I've seen is that you can not get to the bilges or bilge pumps without opening the pie plate hatches in the splash wells. If you open the plates in any kind of seas you will get tons of water pouring into the bilge through those hatches - the opposite of what you want to happen.
> 
> If you're not under power and you're taking on water it's pretty much impossible to service the rear bilge without making the problem worse.
> 
> ...


Toss a drift-sock or two off the bow and get the bow into the dominant force, which should allow you to keep waves from crashing on the stern. However, a lot of those cats sit really low in the rearend so it may not be enough to keep those hatches dry.


----------



## jamesw (Dec 1, 2014)

Based on my experience in the World Cat I don't think the drift sock would work. You need a lot of wind before the sock really pulls the bow around. And you still have a lot of pitching then and the splash wells still fill up.

I used a pretty big drift sock on 3 or 4 trips to slow my drift when snapper fishing.

James


----------



## boom! (Jul 10, 2004)

Clear hatch covers would be a nice invention.


----------



## Robert.Parson (Sep 7, 2004)

Great conversation guys.
I will look into these options.
I have an old SeaCat. And I know it leaks a little here and there. Need to find all those leaks and get them sealed up.

Somebody said they get leaks thru a rub rail ?
How does it get in thru there ? Screw holes ?

Sent from my E6810 using Tapatalk


----------



## Robert.Parson (Sep 7, 2004)

is 2000 GPH bilge pump overkill for a single sponson on a cat ?
or is 1100 plenty as long as i have a back up ?
and if it actually gets to the backup for whatever reason, does the back up need to be bigger ?
so maybe a 750 gph primary and 1100 secondary ?
or 1100 primary and 750 secondary ?
or just go with 2000 primary and secondary ?

sorry guys, i have totally hijacked this thread. 
should i start a new thread about BILGE PUMPS only ?


----------



## bigfishtx (Jul 17, 2007)

I owned inboards for years. We usually had 4-5 bilge pumps, 2 in the rear and the one midship were wired to a lighted switch on the helm. I always kept an eye on them and if I saw a light come on and stay on for a few minutes I was checking to see if we had a problem. 
If you are running an inboard or genset you should have a valve you can turn to let it pick up from the bilge rather that the seawater valve. They can move a lot more water than most bilge pumps.


----------



## Momma's Worry (Aug 3, 2009)

Robert.Parson said:


> is 2000 GPH bilge pump overkill for a single sponson on a cat ?
> or is 1100 plenty as long as i have a back up ?
> and if it actually gets to the backup for whatever reason, does the back up need to be bigger ?
> so maybe a 750 gph primary and 1100 secondary ?
> ...


it's a cheap insurance policy..........

forget those smaller ones they are for Bay boats......bigger is better hands down

2000gph for $40 ?...you can not beat this no matter how try.....I have an 1500 on by bait wells(5) as a fill pump ......


----------



## John the fisherman (Nov 19, 2012)

These are the float switches I use. They are used by the coast guard and have led light to show power. I had problems with other switches these are 5 yrs old and work perfect. They are expensive but minimal expense for safety









Sent from my LG-H932 using Tapatalk


----------



## JWT (Jun 28, 2004)

Every cat should have a minimum of two bilge pumps per sponson. . . With their own hoses and thruhulls. One of those in each sponson should have a float switch and go directly to a non house battery with no switches. Your toggle switches can operate the other pumps in each sponson off the other (house) battery. One big problem for most is their electrical connections to the bilge pump. Heat shrink crimped connections with liquid electrical tape over everything. Raise that connection as high as you can in the bilge, if it gets wet with regularity you will have constant issues. Let it cure well before handling. 
Try to raise your batteries if you can, some Worldcats have them in the bilge. My old Seacat had them on floor level, and I moved my batteries to my console on my current custom cat. 
Test the bilge pumps regularly with water. Dirt dobbers can sink you when they plug a hose. I have 1300 gph bilges on switches and 2000 gph backups wired to a blinking and buzzing light on my dash. My boat takes on a little water as most boats do, I make sure to switch the bilges periodically through the day to test them.

Sent from my SM-J727P using Tapatalk


----------



## jamesw (Dec 1, 2014)

Great advice JWT. To add to that (having owned a Seacat and a WC) is that the through-hulls on those boats are ****. Some of them may look like stainless but they are actually plastic coated in silver mylar. If there is ANY question, I recommend changing them all out.

Also, when the livewell overflow on a WC gets plugged the overflow goes to the port splashwell. If you pie-plate leaks then it goes to the bilge. So you can be actively filling your port sponsor using a pump - which is not good. Or underway water gets pushed up to the livewell by the water pickup and if the overflow is plugged it can dump to the bilge.

HTH
James


----------



## Captn C (May 21, 2004)

Robert.Parson said:


> Wizness
> How do you check your float switches. By hand ? Just flip it up to make sure it works ? Mine are internal on these pumps. By I do check the switiwhile the boat is on the sling to make sure I can hear it running.
> 
> CaptC
> ...


Yes sir! The pump I have is just like the one in your picture.

I'm on my phone, but switch/alarm/light panel looks exactly like the one i put on my boat.


----------



## TXFishin (Apr 26, 2010)

Another option, and something fairly easy to do that can add an extra layer

Most of you already have auxiliary bilge pumps available on your boat with little re-work required.

Aside from my two bilge pumps (aft and forward), with a few turns of some valves, I can add 3 more pumps

I have:

Raw water washdown pump

Fishbox Pump-out

Livewell Pump

On each one of these, simply place a "T" with a valve on the pickup line, and on the "T" a piece of hose with a screen on it, long enough to reach the lower bilge area

In an emergency, I can turn any of these pumps into an auxiliary bilge pump simply by turning a valve, although not high volume like a dedicated bilge pump, but in a bind it might just save you.

Instead of picking up raw water for the washdown pump it picks up from the bilge

Instead of pumping out the fishbox, it picks up from the bilge

Instead of picking up raw water for the livewell, it picks up from the bilge

Relentless


----------



## Robert.Parson (Sep 7, 2004)

Excellent idea Relentless 
I might be able to get to at least one of. 
The bait well fill. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ShawnQ (May 21, 2004)

My Whale gulper grouper fishbox pump also has a valve that will pump from the bilge if needed. They move quite a bit of water!

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


----------



## Momma's Worry (Aug 3, 2009)

*8-24-18*

just arrived with another in route ...for a total of 4 bilge pump re-placements in our Grady....1500(2) & 2000(2) gph


----------



## AirbornXpress (Sep 27, 2006)

*Cats back*

Sheâ€™s out of the water


----------



## Robert.Parson (Sep 7, 2004)

Airborne x
How did you get it flipped over ?


----------



## Dufrsp31 (May 21, 2015)

I'm curious about the recovery also. Did ya'll go out on a mission to recover or did ya'll run across on the way in/out and decide to recover. How far out was it after being out there for 4 days?


----------



## MTSkibum (Mar 12, 2014)

What happens if it would have sunk, could you have cut the line quick enough or would of it dragged your boat under?


----------



## mstrelectricman (Jul 10, 2009)

Another Q. I've never seen a boat like that. Pretty sure it ain't a GB and it dang sure aint a WC. WTheck is it?


----------



## Dufrsp31 (May 21, 2015)

It's an older GB. A quick search on Google for Glacier Bay Cuddy pics and I found what almost looks like the same exact boat.

https://moreboats.com/boats/glacier-bay/252-cuddy/34501


----------



## Fin Reaper (May 31, 2012)

ColeS said:


> Shawn, I've been using these Water Witch switches as well, both as high water alarms and as float switches to activate the bilge pumps. I'm noticing, though, when the seas are a little rough the bilge pump gets activated frequently due to, I think, splashing water in the bilge. And at the end of the day the bilge pump finally just stays on until I open the Armstrong hatch and wipe off the sensor. Have you noticed this?
> 
> Cole
> 
> This would be due to the salt accumulation. Salt is a moderate electrical conductor and will complete the circuit when you've had water splashing and drying leaving a salt film that builds up until you wipe it.


----------



## TXFishin (Apr 26, 2010)

This is what I have for high water alarm

https://www.defender.com/product.jsp?id=680786

Relentless


----------



## MrBill4488 (Aug 23, 2018)

Can someone recommend a capable and adequate manual bilge pump please ? Will be adding one to my boat based on this thread. Thanks


----------



## fishinguy (Aug 5, 2004)

This is the one I keep on board.

https://www.academy.com/shop/pdp/attwood®-hand-bilge-pump


----------



## Captn C (May 21, 2004)

Robert.Parson said:


> Airborne x
> How did you get it flipped over ?


I've never recovered one than has turtled, but I think they right them self when you start pulling them. I'm surprised it rolled over without a T-Top...they make a boat top heavy, especially a mono hull. The foot print of the cat should have kept it upright...must have got rough and rolled it over.

The first time I nearly sank the SeaCraft I was seconds away from turtle'ing but was still able to power up the engines....I looked just like the above picture...waaaay more of the boat under water than above it. But because I could use the hull to keep it upright I had time to manually pump it out.

The second time the alarm went off so I had plenty of time to find out what was going on. So there really wasn't a second time, but if I had not take measures to let me know...there would have been a second event that I might not have been so lucky!


----------



## Livetodrive (Jun 20, 2014)

The rear most section of the rubrails of cats are notorious for water intrusion. While running water forces itâ€™s way in. A good bead of 4200 or even 5200 is the usual fix


----------



## Wizness (Jun 15, 2011)

So i'm assuming now Airborne xpress can claim salvage correct? Not 100% clear on salvage laws. Curious how it all works.


----------



## AirbornXpress (Sep 27, 2006)

The motors will go the deepest due to weight then the wind and waves will roll it Being the floatation and fiberglass makes it rise to highest point.
We used rope between the sponsons and tied 300 lb mono to center the rope between the motors and used 500 hp to flip it and take off like a mofo, with the plugs pulled most of the water drained while pulling. Then we stopped and someone jumped in the bail the rest out with buckets.


----------



## saltwatersensations (Aug 30, 2004)

Wizness said:


> So i'm assuming now Airborne xpress can claim salvage correct? Not 100% clear on salvage laws. Curious how it all works.


X2


----------



## Wizness (Jun 15, 2011)

AirbornXpress said:


> The motors will go the deepest due to weight then the wind and waves will roll it Being the floatation and fiberglass makes it rise to highest point.
> We used rope between the sponsons and tied 300 lb mono to center the rope between the motors and used 500 hp to flip it and take off like a mofo, with the plugs pulled most of the water drained while pulling. Then we stopped and someone jumped in the bail the rest out with buckets.


So what are your plans with the boat?


----------



## offshorefanatic (Jan 13, 2011)

What are the laws on salvage of a capsized vessel you stumble across? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## stammster - temporary (Jul 20, 2009)

offshorefanatic said:


> What are the laws on salvage of a capsized vessel you stumble across?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Finders keepers!


----------



## saltwatersensations (Aug 30, 2004)

stammster said:


> Finders keepers!


Well I hope he gets some use out of it versus going to waste. Would be a cool rebuild thread to follow.


----------



## Wizness (Jun 15, 2011)

Not sure if you can keep the boat under salvage laws or not. I do think he has to get compensated some fair amount or something but not 100% sure.


----------



## Momma's Worry (Aug 3, 2009)

Wizness said:


> Not sure if you can keep the boat under salvage laws or not. I do think he has to get compensated some fair amount or something but not 100% sure.


Gonna be a problem when the owner with state titles in hand,TX and hull ID number,plus motor titles wants his vessel back ......

Joe Salvage can be SOL ...


----------



## High_Water (Jun 6, 2017)

http://www.wavetrain.net/techniques-a-tactics/492-salvage-law-when-do-get-to-keep-an-abandoned-boat

An article on salvage law, found it from a quick google search, can't personally attest to accuracy, but interesting read nonetheless.


----------



## tpool (Aug 21, 2005)

Momma's Worry said:


> Gonna be a problem when the owner with state titles in hand,TX and hull ID number,plus motor titles wants his vessel back ......
> 
> Joe Salvage can be SOL ...


Yep I believe you are right - I also believe Joe Salvage says it's X amount of dollars for the delivery from the gulf, getting on land, draining, and storage fees 

T-BONE
(tpool)


----------



## Momma's Worry (Aug 3, 2009)

tpool said:


> Yep I believe you are right - I also believe Joe Salvage says it's X amount of dollars for the delivery from the gulf, getting on land, draining, and storage fees
> 
> T-BONE
> (tpool)


if Joe Salvage was not hired,verbal or otherwise to retrieve the vessel, by Joe Owner, he is due no compensation.....and will illegally have said vessel in his possession ....subject to arrest ...


----------



## tpool (Aug 21, 2005)

Momma's Worry said:


> if Joe Salvage was not hired,verbal or otherwise to retrieve the vessel, by Joe Owner, he is due no compensation.....and will illegally have said vessel in his possession ....subject to arrest ...


I thought that was what the salvage law was all about?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_salvage

*Marine salvage* is the process of recovering a ship and its cargo after a shipwreck or other maritime casualty. *Salvage may encompass towing, re-floating a vessel, or effecting repairs to a ship. Today, protecting the coastal environment from spillage of oil or other contaminants is a high priority.* Before the invention of radio, salvage services would be given to a stricken vessel by any ship that happened to be passing by. Nowadays, most salvage is carried out by specialist salvage firms with dedicated crew and equipment.

*The legal significance of salvage** is that a successful salvor is entitled to a reward, which is a proportion of the total value of the ship and its cargo.* The amount of the award is determined subsequently at a "hearing on the merits" by a maritime court in accordance with Articles 13 and 14 of the International Salvage Convention of 1989. The common law concept of salvage was established by the English Admiralty Court, and is *defined as "a voluntary successful service provided in order to save maritime property in danger at sea, entitling the salvor to a reward"; *and this definition has been further refined by the 1989 Convention. 
*Originally, a "successful" salvage was one where at least some of the ship or cargo was saved, otherwise the principle of "No Cure, No Pay" meant that the salvor would get nothing.* In the 1970s, *a number of marine casualties of single-skin-hull tankers led to serious oil spills. Such casualties were unattractive to salvors, so the **Lloyd's Open Form (LOF)** made provision that a salvor who acts to try to prevent environmental damage will be paid, even if unsuccessful. *This Lloyd's initiative proved so advantageous that it was incorporated into the 1989 Convention.

T-BONE
(tpool)


----------



## tpool (Aug 21, 2005)

Furthermore...

*Law of salvage*

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jump to navigationJump to searchThe *law of salvage* is a principle of maritime law whereby any person who helps recover another person's ship or cargo in peril at sea is *entitled to a reward commensurate with the value of the property salved.* 
Maritime law is inherently international, and although salvage laws vary from one country to another, generally there are established conditions to be met to allow a claim of salvage.[1] The vessel must be in peril, either immediate or forthcoming; *the "salvor" must be acting voluntarily and under no pre-existing contract*; and the salvor must be successful in his efforts, though *payment for partial success may be granted if the environment is protected*.

Someone with more knowledge of me please chime in... I just thought that is what salvage meant..

T-BONE
(tpool)


----------



## ShawnQ (May 21, 2004)

Maybe Airborne is a friend, and towed the boat in for the owner?


----------



## Momma's Worry (Aug 3, 2009)

ShawnQ said:


> Maybe Airborne is a friend, and towed the boat in for the owner?


silver lining ......no problems at all if no one cares


----------



## Momma's Worry (Aug 3, 2009)

Momma's Worry said:


> silver lining ......no problems at all if no one cares


 but the State of Texas Parks & Wildlife Enforcement does and they have rules ....I do not see the title transfer going smoothly or quickly if contested ...but maybe Joe Owner will gift it to Joe Salvage and fill out/ sign the required forms ....then nothing to it...done deal....

very interesting to know what State Wardens would do if owner called them to get his vessel back once on land ......


----------



## tpool (Aug 21, 2005)

Yes, very interesting what would happen! And I too hope Airborne is a friend and will just give it back. 


What I was talking about (and I think Momma's Worry) is if someone happened to see the boat offshore, unknowing of the owner, and salvaged it (to prevent environmental impact or otherwise)..


T-BONE
(tpool)


----------



## Dufrsp31 (May 21, 2015)

What about the insurance company, assuming he had coverage? If the insurance company wrote it off as total loss, how does that play into this situation? Is it legally owned by the insurance company at this point?


----------



## saltwatersensations (Aug 30, 2004)

Dufrsp31 said:


> What about the insurance company, assuming he had coverage? If the insurance company wrote it off as total loss, how does that play into this situation? Is it legally owned by the insurance company at this point?


Doubt it. Since they would have had to recover it themselves. Not worth their efforts. Bet its a total loss to ins and insured. Salvaged title maybe in the future.


----------



## AirbornXpress (Sep 27, 2006)

I have a friend that has a salvage company and I helped him go get it, he was hired by the insurance company and a friend of his went and found it. My advise is if you see something floating like this 
I would just report it to coast guard with location, I wouldnâ€™t be messing around with someone elseâ€™s boat. I know you wouldnâ€™t well hope you wouldnâ€™t 
Now I have to go back to work


----------



## Dufrsp31 (May 21, 2015)

AirbornXpress, after 4 days or so, how far was it from the original location of going down?


----------



## Momma's Worry (Aug 3, 2009)

AirbornXpress said:


> I have a friend that has a salvage company and I helped him go get it, he was hired by the insurance company and a friend of his went and found it. My advise is if you see something floating like this
> I would just report it to coast guard with location, I wouldnâ€™t be messing around with someone elseâ€™s boat. I know you wouldnâ€™t well hope you wouldnâ€™t
> 
> My point exactly .....
> ...


----------



## jamesw (Dec 1, 2014)

Interesting scenario. Well I can think of one good reason to "mess with it" if you found it floating like that - it's a huge hazard to navigation. Any of us on here could have hit it slow-boating at night. If you have the time and skills then try to clear it.

Next best thing would be to put some kind of radar reflector on it and report it to Coast Guard.

HTH
James


----------



## Hotrod (Oct 11, 2006)

I'll share my experiences with you guys having almost sunk a 27ft World Cat

As stated before, the original deck plates in the splash wells make it hard to access the pumps. We cut those out and replaced with large square deck hatch lids, with a rubber water seal. Cant remember the brand. Anyway, boat partner at the time replaced all the pumps and wiring. What he didn't do was seal all the connections with heat shrink and die electric grease, he just crimped the connections. We had two pumps in each sponson. 

Tournament day, we are offshore Matty 65 miles out. Jimmy was fighting a grouper from 300 ft down. I noticed the port cowling low in the water. I figured it was just from several people on that side of the boat. A couple hours prior to this I had opened that hatch to check for water, like I usually do several times a day. Closing the hatch and locking it, one of the back corners didnt snap down and seal properly. So a couple hours later we had been taking on water and didn't know it. Water hits the connectors and shorts out the pumps from automatically kicking on. 

I finally open the battery door which is in the rear transom on the world cat 266SF. Water was 2-3 inches from covering the batteries. I alerted everyone and we went into scramble mode. We got out the throw down bilge pump that we had in the console in a bucket. The alligator clips had rusted and the connection was bad. So that was being fixed, I told Rik to try and get the boat on plane and get on the radio with our location. We did have the hand pump. Rik was trying to get us on plane but we were very heavy we couldnt do it. I opened that rear hatch under motion, and water comes gushing out, after 5 mins of the hand pump I was quickly exhausted. Guys got the throw down bilge working and we set it in by the batteries, then held the pump down in the splash well. Tip, weight the pump down with something, because it will float. Finally we got enough water out and got back on plane. We figured what happened, and made the call it was safe to continue fishing.

We were very close to flipping Im sure. So always check your hatches and make sure they seal correctly. Its always a habit of mine to turn the pumps on throughout the day manually, especially when I leave a spot. 

So the hand pumps are pretty useless unless you are a cardio machine, keep the throw down pump greased up, and weighted down, with long leads. 

That was one of the last trips where I had the late Rik Jacobsen on the boat. We did end up placing with a 2nd place grouper as well.


----------



## hog (May 17, 2006)

Hotrod said:


> I'll share my experiences with you guys having almost sunk a 27ft World Cat
> 
> Tournament day, we are offshore Matty 65 miles out. Jimmy was fighting a grouper from 300 ft down.
> 
> That was one of the last trips where I had the late Rik Jacobsen on the boat. We did end up placing with a 2nd place grouper as well.


I've told and Relived that story alot of times since then. I can assure you the hearts of us ALL were beating quite fast. We were within a Groupers fart of go'n down :help: I always say "Thank you Lord for Cool heads and thinking that day"..

It was quite a eye opener... AND, since then, ive been in another Cat boat thats pontoon thing filled up with water again due to a faulty bilge.

Below is the Grouper. About 10 Seconds after this photo was taken, $%!T Hit the fan :cheers:


----------



## Robert.Parson (Sep 7, 2004)

Can someone show me a pic or give me a link to the right hatch that's watertight so I know what to look for...


Sent from my E6810 using Tapatalk


----------



## Wizness (Jun 15, 2011)

Robert.Parson said:


> Can someone show me a pic or give me a link to the right hatch that's watertight so I know what to look for...
> 
> Sent from my E6810 using Tapatalk


Just google armstrong round hatch. That's what most people use. I switched mine to bomar hatches in my worldcat and so far they don't leak at all. They do use an o-ring though so I'll be keeping an eye out.


----------



## jamesw (Dec 1, 2014)

Yep. Even better are the clear ones so you can shine in a strong flashlight to check on things.

James


----------



## Robert.Parson (Sep 7, 2004)

Like these ?








Sent from my E6810 using Tapatalk


----------



## jamesw (Dec 1, 2014)

No - Armstrong makes round pie-plate hatches that have a clear plastic circle but still operate the same way as the one Wizness posted.

Cheers
James


----------



## Blue Fin Charters (Mar 2, 2010)

AirbornXpress said:


> I have a friend that has a salvage company and I helped him go get it, he was hired by the insurance company and a friend of his went and found it. My advise is if you see something floating like this
> I would just report it to coast guard with location, I wouldnâ€™t be messing around with someone elseâ€™s boat. I know you wouldnâ€™t well hope you wouldnâ€™t
> Now I have to go back to work


Is this your friend that's trying to get into towing business?


----------



## Capt. Billy (Mar 6, 2010)

Interesting read. I think Mommas Worry basically said it but you canâ€™t keep someoneâ€™s boat especially if they want it back. Your entitled to some compensation for your efforts and your risk but most of the time insurance companies have a price their willing to pay. Weâ€™ve done quite a few where owners have signed the titles over and Iâ€™ve done quite a few where the owners have walked away from them. As TXPWD told us the abandoned ones are basically flower pots so be prepared to store something for long time cause if you hook up to it your responsible for it. There is a process to get a title but takes about 6 months and boat has to be auctioned off or get a bonded title. FYI thereâ€™s no salvage titles on boats in TX so watch out for what your buying.


----------



## bayourat (Jan 7, 2005)

Blue Fin Charters said:


> Is this your friend that's trying to get into towing business?


That guy makes me laugh.... :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:


----------



## yfarm (Aug 19, 2016)

I owned a 25 Prowler, only bilge access was thru 8" pie plate in motor well. Replaced with rectangular Armstrong hatch that allowed better access. When boat was anchored or drifting with a following sea there was always water in the motor well which would have flooded sponson if hatch was opened. Only option would be to cut hole in bottom of one of the interior storage boxes to install secondary pump under the box for back up. Prowlers are all built with enough flotation to not sink if flooded or capsize. Thought motor well only access to pumps is a design flaw. Own a 29 Freeman, all Freeman's have all pumps accessible from inside thru rear storage compartment, this is how I think all cats should be designed to allow interior access to thruhulls and pumps. To flood the sponson,you have to have catastrophic hull damage or stuff the hull and open the interior hatches. A 31 Prowler ran into a reef at night in the Carribean, had large holes in both forward sponsons and remained afloat due to the flotation. something to consider when looking at cats to buy used or new.


----------



## Ish (Oct 30, 2008)

Momma's Worry said:


> My point exactly .....
> if you are not a licensed salvage dude, leave it alone...


so you believe that you've gotta pay the gov't before doing anything?

wow.


----------



## AirbornXpress (Sep 27, 2006)

*Not really a friend*



Blue Fin Charters said:


> Is this your friend that's trying to get into towing business?


Just a guy that found the boat and called my buddy, we showed him how to flip the boat. I guess heâ€™s going into business now, think I would stick with a company that been around for awhile


----------



## El gato 24 (Feb 25, 2016)

AirbornXpress said:


> Sheâ€™s out of the water


That hurts my heart


----------



## Blue Fin Charters (Mar 2, 2010)

AirbornXpress said:


> Just a guy that found the boat and called my buddy, we showed him how to flip the boat. I guess heâ€™s going into business now, think I would stick with a company that been around for awhile


I thought you said earlier that you had a friend that owned a salvage company and he was contracted by the insurance company?


----------



## AirbornXpress (Sep 27, 2006)

Yes 
But it wasnâ€™t him
Seaquest


----------



## Blue Fin Charters (Mar 2, 2010)

AirbornXpress said:


> Yes
> But it wasnâ€™t him
> Seaquest


This guy appears to be claiming Seaquest's job as his own. No worries, he now appears to be concentrating on charter boat fishing.


----------



## Capt. Billy (Mar 6, 2010)

Joel at Seaquest did the job think he was the passenger and hope heâ€™s not the one standing on the boat upside down holding that terrible attempt at a knot...Lol


----------



## seaquest (Feb 21, 2018)

mstrelectricman said:


> Now that looks like a good part.
> 
> Does anyone know what brand and model the 25' cat was?


it was a 1996 GB 25.


----------



## seaquest (Feb 21, 2018)

it was a 1996 GB with 115 Yamaha's less than 400 hours.


----------



## seaquest (Feb 21, 2018)

boat will be sold to highest bidder


----------

