# they can't all be winners



## SpikeMike (May 16, 2007)

Just completed a rod for my son. Man, what a turd. Somehow I got the spine off by about 15 degrees and I had a heck of time with the finish. Not as smooth as I would like.

Been using the flex-coat lite formula and have had decent results until now. Do most others use the normal high build stuff?

And, should I cut up this rod so that nobody sees it or should I just use it? I can build another one for my son.

I'm a little freaked out about this because I'm about to build a couple of rods for other people.


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## Goags (May 28, 2004)

Spine off? I just try to build on the straightest axis...w/ any slight curl UP, hoping the guides/wraps compensate for it. If it's more than a slight curl, I'll send it back, rather than build on it. Post up a pic of what your referring to, we won't laugh


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## kneekap (Nov 13, 2012)

Keeping track of the spine is one of the tricks of rod building.
I try to keep track by using a tape mark on the butt on a one piece rod and installing the tip first on a two piece. Like sawing wood: check it twice before gluing anything down.

You might rebuild it because the power on the cast just won't be right.


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## katjim00 (Jan 8, 2009)

I built one that I marked the spine. Had it all lined up and put the reel seat on 180 from how it should have been mounted, second rod I built. It was mine so I did not worry about it. I have caught lots of reds, and big specks on it. Don't worry about it too much. This was on a medium lite blank SP842 cut 6 inches. Use it and see what happens


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## SpikeMike (May 16, 2007)

I will definitely be more careful checking the spine (and the curve) in the future. This was just a minor goof that I will be more careful on in the future. Like you said, measure twice... Once you epoxy on the reel seat, you're stuck with that alignment.

I need to get better results with the finish. The finish on this one is clear and cured well. It just didn't self level much. Might need to warm it up or thin it. I will do some experiments before I put finish on the next rod.


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## bowhunter29 (Jul 25, 2011)

Don't worry about the spine, you won't notice any difference. No one can cast on the exact same plane on every cast, which is what you'd have to do to make the spine relevant in casting. The guides easily override any affect the spine may have.

One thing I've never understood about building on the spine: Why would I want to build on the weakest axis of the blank?

Post pictures of the rod, I'd love to see them. My first rod was terrible! I've never shown it to anyone.

jeremy


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## SpikeMike (May 16, 2007)

the sad thing is that this isn't my first build. I think I'll just use this one and I'll share some of the more successful builds.


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## Fishsurfer (Dec 14, 2014)

I believe the spine in a rod is due to eccentricity in the blank wall because the fiber cloth is rolled onto a mandrill and then pressed onto that mandrill. The start of the roll and where the roll ends as well as pressure applied determine these irregularities in the blank wall that inevitably determine the "spine". The areas of the most occurring wall thinness will have less resistance toward bending. However I am not sure that the thinner wall is consistent down the length of the blank, so a blank may have more than one "spine" down the length depending upon where the pressure is applied to determine it. Maybe it's TMI. It may not matter if the spining of a rod is off little. I did a rod 180 degrees off spine purposely to give it a little more sensitivity and faster action. It is over 20 years old and still works fine. If the Batson Rep. could clarify this I would appreciate it.


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## cfulbright (Jun 24, 2009)

SpikeMike said:


> I will definitely be more careful checking the spine (and the curve) in the future. This was just a minor goof that I will be more careful on in the future. Like you said, measure twice... Once you epoxy on the reel seat, you're stuck with that alignment.
> 
> I need to get better results with the finish. The finish on this one is clear and cured well. It just didn't self level much. Might need to warm it up or thin it. I will do some experiments before I put finish on the next rod.


Don't worry to much about the spine, it would have been better right, but it is still very fishable, and your son will probably never notice.

If you have a power wrapper, sand each guide and refinish it. If no pw, cut any big bumps off with a razor blade and refinish, with lite, I always heat mine a little to release bubbles.


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## okmajek (May 29, 2012)

If you look on flex coats website or in the catalog. 
They give you specific instructions on how to
thin the high build with acetone.I have better results 
and get the higher smooth build that looks best.
Terry at FTU told me he does it this way to prevent 
what your having trouble with. Two coats of the
thinned high build and your gonna like the 
results. . The spine issue won't bother you as 
much as the finish issue, in the end I'm sure it will be fine.
also definitely heat it as stated above. .


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## Swampland (Mar 25, 2008)

I quit building on the spine over 15 years ago. Most blanks aren't perfectly straight and some way better than others. So when I build a rod on the straightest axis I know that when a customer picks up one of my rods and sights down to the tip he'll be looking at a straight rod and not a rod that curves either right or left. I have very rarely spined a rod and the spine fell on the straightest axis.


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## SpikeMike (May 16, 2007)

Not too worried about the spine. I checked it again and I think that "spine" does twist around the rod a good bit.

I've been asked to post pics of the rod, so here you go.


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## Doubless (Aug 22, 2005)

The LAST thing I would do is cut it up. Beautiful grip work!

As has been said, mix another batch of thread finish, add a few drops of acetone (four or five should do it...), and re-coat the wraps. I really think the second coat will be thin enough you shouldn't even need to sand the first coat, but you be the judge of that.

As for the spine, I have always wrapped on the spine (180 out on spinners...) if I could find it. But maybe I am too anal about things. I started in the early 70s when blanks were all US made and consistent; Fenwick put out good stuff, as did Lamiglass and Featherweight. Now, with most of it coming from overseas, things are different, and in my estimation, blank quality has suffered significantly.

Finally, fwiw, I have a commercial 7-6" Falcon I bought because it was cheap. The spine is a full 90 degrees off, but it casts and fights fish just fine. As long as I don't repeatedly check where the spine is, I am okay. 

Shows to go you what I know about spines and rodbuilding, I guess...


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## jaycook (Sep 13, 2007)

I think the spine question has been answered, it's not worth the trouble of finding it. 

It seems that the right questions aren't being asked. What kind of thread was used? Was CP used? Was it every wrap that looked like that? All these answers can help eliminate some possibilities. Trust me, you want to figure this out before it happens again. 

If you're using a lite build, I wouldn't thin it. It's my opinion that it's not going to help. Sometimes I use lite as a first coat to get a good thread soak. But after that, it's regular build. If it were mine, I would try a thin coat of regular build. It might take two. 

One suggestion, get a piece of scrap blank and do a test wrap. See if you still have the problem. If it's a contamination, that needs to be solved before anything else.


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## cfulbright (Jun 24, 2009)

Looks like contamination to me.


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## katjim00 (Jan 8, 2009)

Are there spots on the finish where it looks like it did not adhere. Hard to tell in the pic but that is what it looks like to me. If so that might be contamination. If that is the case you can clean those spots really good with acetone and recoat. If you are using the lite why would you need to thin it....just curious as thread master lite is really thin already. Never used flex coat lite


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## SpikeMike (May 16, 2007)

The blue thread is PacBay Royal Blue Y450C-RB. I did use 3 coats of flexcoat CP.

The finish is nice and clear, just not level. I can't see any separation. The smaller guide wraps don't look too bad, but there's less area, so...

I'm not ruling out contamination. I wonder if it got too cold while it was being stored between using it.

Its nearly used up so I'll just get some new finish and do some experimenting on a test rod. With CP, without CP, one thin coat, ...

Other than that, we're just gonna use the darn thing.


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## cfulbright (Jun 24, 2009)

What syringes are you using to measure? Where did they come from?


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## SpikeMike (May 16, 2007)

using the flexcoat syringes that came in the package.


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## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

I built a small jig with 2 ball bearings in it to check spine. The 2 ball bearings are in a straight line but about 12" apart. The jig is held at an angle, the blank inserted into the inside of the 2 ball bearings and spun. Now, as example, if 12" of rod tip is beyond the far bearing it will come to rest at same place every time. However, if 14" of rod tip is beyond the far bearing, it comes to rest at a different spot. However, every time spun with 14" extended will be the same. My point is that it varies considerably where I place the blank in my homemade spine finder. All this to say that Goags and Swampland using the straight axis makes the most sense IMO. The spine seems to spiral around the rod.


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## Goags (May 28, 2004)

Glad you posted pics, SpikeMike. From your first description, I just figured you used too much finish on an application., but that doesn't appear to be it. I agree, the pic looks like some kind of contamination...I'd wipe it w/ DNA, let it dry, and apply another thin coat or 2 of finish.


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## Fishsurfer (Dec 14, 2014)

We might be beating this dog to death but my two more cents. The grip looks really good, great job. It looks like the resin and the acetone weren't mixed enough at the time of application. A very light sanding (250-300 grit) to kind of flatten the lumps (do not cut into the thread) and then wipe off the dust (use spit or water). Take a 16 oz microwavable cup and fill it about 1/2 full of water. Microwave for 1 minute. Put your epoxy, both parts in the cup do not let the water go over the lid. Let it sit for about 10 minutes. Remove the epoxy bottles and dry them off. Thoroughly mix and do not thin it out. Pour onto tinfoil then re-coat your wraps. You may have to do this more than once, but usually once is enough. Also don't forget to apply heat to get the bubbles out.


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## JeremyReed (Dec 8, 2013)

Did you put much heat to the wraps after the finish was on?


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## SpikeMike (May 16, 2007)

just hit them a little with the heat gun. had good results previously. i will sand down a guide and re-apply a new batch of finish. we'll see how it turns out.


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## Skiff (Jun 5, 2004)

Thanks for posting and I have a few of those in the garage waiting to be repaired. Most of my drying issues were from not mixing the epoxy long enough. That and little fingerprints that seemed to show up from a little angel. Haha!


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