# Red Wolf



## ANGEL (May 21, 2004)

Is there still any around??

Has anyone seen one lately or are they all extinct.


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## James Howell (May 21, 2004)

Technically extinct except those in captivity for breeding purposes for eventual repopulation. I believe somewhere in the carolinas they are talking about reintroducing them. I have seen some mighty long legged, big eared coyotes around the brazoria wildlife refuge that probably have quite a bit of the red wolf genes left in them. When they live trapped the last few red wolves in Brazoria county, it was hard to find a pure red wolf as they had started hybridizing with coyotes.


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## bountyhunter (Jul 6, 2005)

I had a run in with one on my property in East Texas about 3 years ago. Didn't have a camera with me so no pictures. My neighbor that lives up there says he has seen them off and on ever since he was a boy. I'd say they are still out there, but their numbers are still low. The over population of coyotes don't help the any as they compete for food and territory.


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## Bill C (May 23, 2004)

I read something recently that stated that red wolves are simply gray wolf/coyote hybrids and not a distinct species. I was surprised at that finding. Did anybody else see that article?


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## Momma's Worry (Aug 3, 2009)

*Red Wolves*

heart worms from mosquitoes kill all untreated K-nines.....


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## ANGEL (May 21, 2004)

I may have seen a couple of them is why I asked. Their face did not look like a coyote, but I'm no expert in identifying them. I spotted them near San Jac river and 99 this morning. I looked up their picture and it matched to what I saw.


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## daddyeaux (Nov 18, 2007)

According to TPWD there are no wolves in Texas. But we know how accurate they are.


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## bigfishtx (Jul 17, 2007)

daddyeaux said:


> According to TPWD there are no wolves in Texas. But we know how accurate they are.


They are just as plentiful as the Chupacabra.


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## dbarham (Aug 13, 2005)

I could have swore I seen one running down Bryan beach one night if it was a coyote he was overgrown and red


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## daddyeaux (Nov 18, 2007)

We had one on our lease in Willis, east of I-45, dang thing was twice the size of a yote. Mangy yellowish gray color, just a mean looking animal.


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## Cynoscion (Jun 4, 2009)

Bill C said:


> I read something recently that stated that red wolves are simply gray wolf/coyote hybrids and not a distinct species. I was surprised at that finding. Did anybody else see that article?


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-true-species-of-wolf/?utm_term=.965beb399cf6


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## bigfishtx (Jul 17, 2007)

That is a new twist on things. I know for the past 30 years or so every wolf that was allegedy killed in Texas always was shown to be mostly Yote with some red wolf dna.

I think Tex AM commerce did a big study on this a few years back.


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## goatchze (Aug 1, 2006)

I'm about dead certain I saw one in Cass County about a decade ago. Not a dog. Not a coyote. Looked more wolf like.

Did not look like the Red Wolves in the WaPo article. It looked more like this:


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## TroutMaster76 (Jun 19, 2005)

*Saw one on Monday*

at the Fort Worth Zoo. I thought it looked like a coyote until I saw some coyote 5 minutes later - much bigger & blocky head/shoulders than a yote.


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## James Howell (May 21, 2004)

That would make sense. When the FWS did the trapping (80's I think), genetic research wasn't advanced enough to come up with this conclusion. Really interesting that even "pure" grey wolves have some traces of coyote DNA as well.


Cynoscion said:


> http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-true-species-of-wolf/?utm_term=.965beb399cf6


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## Bayscout22 (Aug 9, 2007)

ROLO said:


> I may have seen a couple of them is why I asked. Their face did not look like a coyote, but I'm no expert in identifying them. I spotted them near San Jac river and 99 this morning. I looked up their picture and it matched to what I saw.


I grew up on the San Jacinto and hunted and fished the woods and bottoms from Highlands to the Highway 90 bridge. I've killed lots of coyotes and have killed what my grandfather used call wolves in Karnes County. Looking back, they were probably just big hybrids.

Around 1980 or 1981, we killed what can only be described as a big red wolf on the San Jacinto river bottoms North of Highlands. That's not very far (in wolf miles) from where you saw yours. It's a lot of years later.


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## DR_Smith (Jul 20, 2016)

Does anyone have a GOOD PIC of a coyote wolf hybrid? In Victoria county I killed a "yote" a few yrs ago. It was the biggest I had ever seen (male and dwarfed the female I shot at same time) and its fur was super thick and fluffy with a much larger then normal head. Comparison would be a big block head lab vs the smaller leaner lab if that makes sense. Fur was thick and soft enough I could have used it as a blanket! haha This was also early deer season (early nov) and so not cold enough or late enough in yr for a winter coat. color was also grayer then normal. I used to have pics of it and will post if I can find them. may be a huge coyote but not sure if could be a cross.

found pic and will post but I stand corrected and just going to call it a big coyote! it is just more gray and a lot fluffier coat then the other. guess I need to shoot more yotes and get better at identifying!


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## DR_Smith (Jul 20, 2016)

*pics*

















don't think wolf mix just lots bigger


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## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

> According to TPWD there are no wolves in Texas. But we know how accurate they are.


And they're correct too. No wolves here for years and years but there are what is called Hybrid Coyotes.

Big dogs too, lots of fur and much larger than a typical yote.

TH


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## Mr. Saltwater (Oct 5, 2012)

Old thread on the subject.

http://2coolfishing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=817498&highlight=red+wolf


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## 2Ws (Jun 28, 2016)

Yrs back we had a woman call the shop said her husband had found a big red wolf that had been run over and they wanted in mounted. By the time they arrived there were several people waiting on them. When the plastic bag was removed, my 80 yr old aunt squalled "it's a dog" they had thought a red Chow was a red wolf. To say they were embarrassed would be an understatement.


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## JimG (May 2, 2005)

On our place south of Dickinson... these guys were huge.


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## daddyeaux (Nov 18, 2007)

Those are some good pics of them yotes.


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## bigfishtx (Jul 17, 2007)

Need to remember a make coyote may be twice the size of a female.


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## DR_Smith (Jul 20, 2016)

https://www.victoriaadvocate.com/news/2016/jun/21/groups-battle-over-future-of-rare-wolf/
That is red wolfs in the Victoria zoo. I don't know if they are still there but you can see the close resemblance and how a coyote could be mistaken or cross bred. I guess a DNA sample would be only way to tell


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## BATWING (May 9, 2008)

.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_wolf


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## wampuscat (Jun 30, 2009)

Since there is officially none left in Texas, If you shot one in Texas would you get in trouble?


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## bigfishtx (Jul 17, 2007)

wampuscat said:


> Since there is officially none left in Texas, If you shot one in Texas would you get in trouble?


There have been a couple of Chupacabra shot and no one got in trouble, so, I doubt it.


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## rainbowrunner (Dec 31, 2005)

JimG said:


> On our place south of Dickinson... these guys were huge.


Steady diet of house cats and small dogs got them looking pretty healthy. The old golf course in Clear Lake is loaded with them. Folks around here wonder what happened to Mittens. :ac550:


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## daddyjaxxs (Dec 5, 2005)

I live by the high school Brierglenn addit. Dickinson, we have one we call big red about the size of a small deer it has taken two of our dogs and many of the neighbors pets. Been around for years. I caught it watching me walk dogs.


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## daddyeaux (Nov 18, 2007)

Man, there ain't nothin better than a yote that likes cats.........


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## sparrish8 (Jul 13, 2013)

daddyeaux said:


> Man, there ain't nothin better than a yote that likes cats.........


I guess we need to release some more in our neighborhood, nothing worse than ignorant neighbors that let.there cats run around and have more stray cats in the neighborhood


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## TrueblueTexican (Aug 29, 2005)

*Not extinct YET*

I saw em as a kid in ETex several times while picking muscadine grapes (seems they liked em too) - they were tall rangy, now way to mistake em for a yote. I for SURE saw one cross a farm plot in McCurtain county OK, just this year, I got within twenty yards of it - they look like a german shepherd bred with a coyote, red snout and markings and probably outweigh the average coyote by thirty pounds. Lots taller and rangier than a coyote. Still RARE, but I know they not extinct !!http://www.facebook.com/redwolfcoalition


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## elkhunter49 (Jun 7, 2004)

A hill country ranch I hunted near Uvalde had a 1/2 Red Heeler 1/2 Gray Wolf. The Wolf father and Heeler momma were still at the ranch.


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## TrueblueTexican (Aug 29, 2005)

*Mexican Gray Wolves*

Are still fairly common along the border, even though USFWS says they no longer exist - a healthy Wolf can cover 30-50 miles in a day, same for Red Wolves being re-introduced east of the Mississippi, lone males with no pack attachments cover some incredible distances. It would be interesting to see a biologist make a concerted effort in East Texas and far Eastern Oklahoma to disprove the Red Wolf recovery, or existence - think what they would find would surprise everyone.


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## bigfishtx (Jul 17, 2007)

TrueblueTexican said:


> Are still fairly common along the border, even though USFWS says they no longer exist - a healthy Wolf can cover 30-50 miles in a day, same for Red Wolves being re-introduced east of the Mississippi, lone males with no pack attachments cover some incredible distances. It would be interesting to see a biologist make a concerted effort in East Texas and far Eastern Oklahoma to disprove the Red Wolf recovery, or existence - think what they would find would surprise everyone.


And what do you base this statement on?


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## [email protected] (May 24, 2004)

I have never seen a red wolf, not even in a zoo. I see plenty coyotes here along the middle-coast and have a few friends that swear they've seen red wolves in the headlights at night, but they also tell me they've seen red foxes while I haven't seen anything but grays. So if they cannot tell the difference between a red and gray fox I have to pretty much guess their red wolves are most likely coyotes. 

If TPWD says they are extinct I will have to go with that until somebody produces a bona-fide red wolf. 

But about the demise of the red wolf while the coyote has proliferated and greatly expanded its range all across the midwest and eastern states, I think it is important to remember that while the two species are closely related, each is unique unto itself. A good example of this is the whooping and sandhill crane. Sandhills are as prolific as ever in modern times while the whooper struggles on the brink of extinction, unable to adapt to loss of habitat and other conditions.

Anyway, seeing a sure enough red wolf in the wild would be cool, no doubt. I hunt often in north-central Ontario and have seen timber wolves on several occasions. Maybe I will get lucky someday and see a red wolf.


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## DR_Smith (Jul 20, 2016)

I have no idea, no proof or anything else of red wolves in tx, but I can say this. I have seen them in the victoira tx zoo and I believe they were successful in breeding them. I don't know if any pure bred in the wild (doubt it) but I read somewhere on here or different place about the crossing with coyotes.
it reminds me of mountain lions.. nobody thought there were any in the Victoria area but yet in the late 80's they had a picture of one in the middle of town crossing a road going into the brush! just because someone says it aint so doesn't mean its not true. REAL LIFE PICS and FACTS speak louder then I think I saw though! so until 100% actual proof its hard to disprove them


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## JimG (May 2, 2005)

daddyeaux said:


> Those are some good pics of them yotes.


Yep! And were the size of healthy German Shepherds. Twice the size of the coyotes we have around...


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## awesum (May 31, 2006)

I shot this critter a year or so ago here on my place and never thought it was anything but a big, fat yote that was pulling down fawns whose remains I'd been finding. but after reading here I'm wondering if he wasn't a hybrid since he was much bigger and fatter than any coyote I'd ever shot before.


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## kweber (Sep 20, 2005)

maybe some red wolf genetics in coyote populations, but our ancestors did a pretty thorough job of eliminating them... 
wish they'd have done better on coyotes, tho...
we're covered up w/them...
our sheep have to go into the barn pen every night...
and have done so during my lifetime...


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## waterspout (May 21, 2004)

awesum said:


> I shot this critter a year or so ago here on my place and never thought it was anything but a big, fat yote that was pulling down fawns whose remains I'd been finding. but after reading here I'm wondering if he wasn't a hybrid since he was much bigger and fatter than any coyote I'd ever shot before.


Oh good lord,,,, don't post pics of Timber Wolves as the are federally protected and you gonna get in trouble! JS:spineyes:


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## goatchze (Aug 1, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> I have never seen a red wolf, not even in a zoo. I see plenty coyotes here along the middle-coast and have a few friends that swear they've seen red wolves in the headlights at night, but they also tell me they've seen red foxes while I haven't seen anything but grays. So if they cannot tell the difference between a red and gray fox I have to pretty much guess their red wolves are most likely coyotes.
> 
> If TPWD says they are extinct I will have to go with that until somebody produces a bona-fide red wolf.
> 
> ...


I'd go easy on your buddies. We have red and grey foxes. I've seen both.

They're not native, but they're here. Just like pheasants, horses, and hogs. All were introduced to the Americas by Europeans.


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## Lunkerman (Dec 27, 2004)

I think some of these big coyotes folks are seeing in urban areas could be crossbreeds of dogs and coyotes. I've seen them crossbreed with wild dogs north of Temple years ago when my daughter lived up there. They killed her pug one night so snl made a mission of killing them off, got 27 and some were as big as German Shepards.


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## 2Ws (Jun 28, 2016)

A jumbo coyote here in Texas will go sbout 40 lbs call it whatever you want but it's still a yote


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## Mr. Saltwater (Oct 5, 2012)

2Ws said:


> A jumbo coyote here in Texas will go sbout 40 lbs call it whatever you want but it's still a yote


Yep. Caught a bunch of them in the 70's and early 80's. Occasionally caught a hybrid "brushwolf" that went as much as 70# while the pure coyotes topped out at about 40#.


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## Kyle 1974 (May 10, 2006)

There are some around brushy Creek south of Tyler. There was some guy illegally raising them, and they escaped somehow. I think a tree fell over and took the fence out. They aren't wild native wolves, but wolves all the same. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


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## waderaider (May 21, 2004)

how about 60#?


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## waderaider (May 21, 2004)

here is a pic of one.


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## waderaider (May 21, 2004)

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## James Howell (May 21, 2004)

If that's a wolf that bobcat in the second pic weighs about 50 lbs.


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## elkhunter49 (Jun 7, 2004)

I doubt either of those animals weigh over 30lbs.


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## waderaider (May 21, 2004)

This one went over 60#. Hide is twice the size of a yote I shot on the same place. Neighbor shot one a yr ago. Twice the size of a normal yote.

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## James Howell (May 21, 2004)

That definitely has the red to it. Pretty cool. Where are you located?


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## waderaider (May 21, 2004)

Dime Box in Lee county. these animals are larger than the coyotes. taller larger head. Unfortunately all my game cam pics have them walking away.
I have noticed they never get mangy like the coyotes.


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## waderaider (May 21, 2004)

Definitely not a 30# yote. I have a 27# Scotty at home. And 32# 5 old month pit. Small compered to these animals. Going to hunt them this weekend.

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## bigfishtx (Jul 17, 2007)

waderaider said:


> Dime Box in Lee county. these animals are larger than the coyotes. taller larger head. Unfortunately all my game cam pics have them walking away.
> I have noticed they never get mangy like the coyotes.


Submit a hair sample or tissue to TPW game biologist and they will run DNA samples.


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## waderaider (May 21, 2004)

Pic of Coyote from tpwd web site. Different animal

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## waderaider (May 21, 2004)

bigfishtx said:


> Submit a hair sample or tissue to TPW game biologist and they will run DNA samples.


County Biologist said they will not do it because of cost. if I am able to get one I will document its measurements and weight before I skin it.


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## 2Ws (Jun 28, 2016)

What did the biologist say or do when you told him the yote weighed 60lb. I'm thinking he just might not believe ya. I would bet all went well while skinning UNTIL you got to the belly.


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## waderaider (May 21, 2004)

2Ws said:


> What did the biologist say or do when you told him the yote weighed 60lb. I'm thinking he just might not believe ya. I would bet all went well while skinning UNTIL you got to the belly.


biologist said looks like a tall yote. i believe they are not yotes. my neighbors around me who have seen them believe they are not yotes. i have only seen them in person 3 times. the first time i shot one stalking a doe with twins. grandparents complained about the wolves getting in the chickens and taking an occasional calf. what do you mean when "Until i got to the belly" ? it was a male.

All I know is I have these predators and believe they are pressuring the deer heard and affecting their numbers. I can only do so much as i am only on 35 acres.

the original OP asked if red wolves still exist. look at the head and marking of the skinned out animal and look at the pictures of red wolves in captivity and you cannot deny the similarities.


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## Mr. Saltwater (Oct 5, 2012)

waderaider said:


> biologist said looks like a tall yote. i believe they are not yotes. my neighbors around me who have seen them believe they are not yotes. i have only seen them in person 3 times. the first time i shot one stalking a doe with twins. grandparents complained about the wolves getting in the chickens and taking an occasional calf. what do you mean when "Until i got to the belly" ? it was a male.
> 
> All I know is I have these predators and believe they are pressuring the deer heard and affecting their numbers. I can only do so much as i am only on 35 acres.
> 
> the original OP asked if red wolves still exist. look at the head and marking of the skinned out animal and look at the pictures of red wolves in captivity and you cannot deny the similarities.


I believe what we have in Texas is a "coyote" population with varying degrees of wolf and dog genetics. I've caught ones that were smaller and paler like pure coyotes, large long legged with red wolf coloration, and ones that clearly had some dog genetics. I don't believe that we have any pure Red Wolves left here, but lots of "brushwolves" with quite a bit of Red Wolf in them.


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## Mr. Saltwater (Oct 5, 2012)

Some dog genetics in this one.


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## FISHINFOOL87 (Jun 21, 2010)

85Lbs Shot in Brazoria County 10:30 at night! Thanks Night vision and Fox Pro!


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## DR_Smith (Jul 20, 2016)

That's a big yote!! lol


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## waderaider (May 21, 2004)

DR_Smith said:


> That's a big yote!! lol


that isn't a regular coyote. Brazoria was in the natural range of the redwolf.


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## bigfishtx (Jul 17, 2007)

Man all this talk about wolves. Where Wolves?



Fishinfool, how tall are you? Did you actually weigh him, or just guess his weight?


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## bigfishtx (Jul 17, 2007)

__ https://www.pinterest.com/pin/500392208569292456/

This says Red Wolves always have white hair on legs and belly.


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## G K Chambers (Aug 12, 2005)

Best I can tell back in the day they would just rub them behind the ears and take them home.



John Deskin Rhea. John was a Deputy U.S. marshal who was born in 1884, 
in 1848, passed away in 1924, and is buried in the family plot on his old homestead at Antelope Flat, Briscoe County, Texas - a few miles north of Quitaque, TX. County, Texas - a few miles north of Quitaque, TX.


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## Mr. Saltwater (Oct 5, 2012)

You can still rub them behind the ears.

http://wolvesofsaintfrancis.org/


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## 2Ws (Jun 28, 2016)

When I mentioned the belly I was speaking of the stench when you got to the belly, same when skinning cats. I've probably caught 15 yotes and about 30 bobcats, never weighed the coyotes just thought the bigger ones were 35-40, biggest cat was 39.


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## scwine (Sep 7, 2006)

Update: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/science...DNA-dogs-living-small-island-coast-Texas.html


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## JWS.HOOKEM (Jun 24, 2008)

*Yep*



Bill C said:


> I read something recently that stated that red wolves are simply gray wolf/coyote hybrids and not a distinct species. I was surprised at that finding. Did anybody else see that article?


Saw and read the same. I remember what we called red wolves around Columbus in the early 70s. My dad and I used to day hunt a place near there that a Game Warden lived on. Another hunter killed 2 one weekend that GW called Reds.


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

Here is an article that may shed some light on the wolf/not wolf theories.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/science...DNA-dogs-living-small-island-coast-Texas.html


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## elkhunter49 (Jun 7, 2004)

Does 1/2 Gray Wolf and 1/2 Red Heeler = Red Wolf ???? 
That's what he is


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## sparrish8 (Jul 13, 2013)

Weve got some poctures of some in mont belvieu, chambers county which is not to far from galveston and those articles that look just like the pics ive seen of red wolfs, their far bigger than normal coyotes with long legs and a fatter face ill see if I cna get the pics.


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## sparrish8 (Jul 13, 2013)

ROLO said:


> I may have seen a couple of them is why I asked. Their face did not look like a coyote, but I'm no expert in identifying them. I spotted them near San Jac river and 99 this morning. I looked up their picture and it matched to what I saw.


This is not far from where we see them at 99 and I10 in mont belvieu


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## sparrish8 (Jul 13, 2013)

*Pics*

These are the pics look at the faces


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## daddyeaux (Nov 18, 2007)

Looks pretty much like a yote to me.


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## AvianQuest (Feb 7, 2006)

Back in the day, it was common for folks to hang up their predator kills on fences. Especially at a place that was once called "Wolf Corner", although the wolf kill gradually turned to coyotes.

It was the intersection of FM-529 and FM-1960 and another at Hempstead Highway and Jackrabbit Road, both on the west side of Houston. Those intersections were once way out in the country northwest of Houston. Now that area has been swallowed up by the Houston suburbs and the community of Cypress, some 500,000 new homes.










Wolf Corner (FM-529 and Highway 6) in 1978...










Wolf Corner (FM-529 and Highway 6) in 2017...


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## bigfishtx (Jul 17, 2007)

Guys. If you got a wolf, submit the hair for DNA verification. This isnâ€™t that difficult. I have been hearing about these phantom wolves for 55 years. They donâ€™t f****** exist. Put up or shut up. I think someone has a reward posted for one of these imaginary wolves. Go get paid.


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## sparrish8 (Jul 13, 2013)

bigfishtx said:


> Guys. If you got a wolf, submit the hair for DNA verification. This isnâ€™t that difficult. I have been hearing about these phantom wolves for 55 years. They donâ€™t f****** exist. Put up or shut up. I think someone has a reward posted for one of these imaginary wolves. Go get paid.


Did you not read the article they just posted about galveston county they did find some. Their not like a timberwolf that people picture 150lbs, their slightly larger than a coyote, we also saw the mexican grey wolves they re-released in the Gila national forest in NM they are about 60-80lbs and have radio collars on their neck.


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## AvianQuest (Feb 7, 2006)

sparrish8 said:


> Did you not read the article they just posted about galveston county they did find some. Their not like a timberwolf that people picture 150lbs, their slightly larger than a coyote, we also saw the mexican grey wolves they re-released in the Gila national forest in NM they are about 60-80lbs and have radio collars on their neck.


More news...

https://abc11.com/pets-animals/dogs-found-in-texas-appear-to-carry-dna-of-extinct-wolf/5075689/


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