# Cat style boats in rough seas



## hooknbullet2 (Jan 17, 2006)

I think we all know that Cat style boats like ESCB, Shoalwater, El Pescador, etc. will run very shallow. There are plenty of videos out that demonstrate that. 

My question how are they in a big open bay like Aransas, or Galveston when the wind is blowing 20-30mph?

I understand its not like a big V hull. I've read that they ride on top and its not too bad. Those of you that own one, how would you describe it?

Thanks.


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## 98aggie77566 (Jul 7, 2009)

My JH Outlaw does OK....certainly not great...but that's not what it was designed for. I can comfortably run in the mid to high 20's in a good chop....anything more and it's just not comfortable on the passengers (though the boat can handle a little more).

Then again....I don't care to fish on days with 30 mph winds?

They don't make the perfect boat....

Looking forward to those responses talking about how their cat will eat up a 3' chop 

Just my 2 cents and honest assessment.


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## Sgrem (Oct 5, 2005)

25+ winds makes for a very big Aransas bay no matter what you are in.
Cats do marginally better than a flat bottom....24+ft boat makes the biggest difference. Smaller and you just have to slow down and manage the throttle so you don't spear a wave.


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## gman1772 (Jul 15, 2012)

Oldie but a goodie!


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## caddis (Jan 22, 2012)

I only have about 40 hours on my 23 SWC. I'd say it's great up to about 18"... true 18" from water surface not the trough for a smooth ride. It might be good a on a bit larger but I've mostly run into this or big 2.5'+ and it's definitely not smooth on those. A BIG wave day on Aransas you'd need an offshore boat to be comfortable! We were on a friend's 25 Extreme last summer on a big day, never scared but rough and we were soaked.


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## Jeff SATX (Jan 18, 2011)

Sometimes on Aransas I think a 27 Latitude would make the perfect boat. Buddy in an X3 says there's days he won't go out, even took a rouge wave over the nose. Ain't nobody got time for that.


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## Navi (Jun 2, 2009)

I've never bothered measuring the wave height when it's got nasty but my shoalwater 23 handled better than my 23 tunnel vee did in similar conditions. You just had to play around to find what speed was the sweet spot. 

I'm not sure how the area around POC compares to the area you are referencing but I'll never go back to a V-hull fishing this area. This coming from someone who was originally unsure of buying a cat


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## boltmaster (Aug 16, 2011)

I have taken my 21 Haynie cat out across Aransas in over 20 mph loaded up for duck hunting and it's not a lot of fun. Especially coming out of key allegro or the little Fulton ramp. But it's quite doable if you find a balance between speed and angle to the wind so that you stay as much as possible on top of two crests. Otherwise it's just riding them and throttling up and down and plowing through and not spearing a crest head on. 

Another 2-3 feet in length would make a big difference


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## sotexhookset (Jun 4, 2011)

boltmaster said:


> I have taken my 21 Haynie cat out across Aransas in over 20 mph loaded up for duck hunting and it's not a lot of fun. Especially coming out of key allegro or the little Fulton ramp. But it's quite doable if you find a balance between speed and angle to the wind so that you stay as much as possible on top of two crests. Otherwise it's just riding them and throttling up and down and plowing through and not spearing a crest head on.
> 
> Another 2-3 feet in length would make a big difference


Makes a huge difference. Fished out of my buddies 21' H Cat a few years ago then bought my 24' H Cat a couple years ago. Much more solid in big chop being its almost four feet longer and a good bit wider.


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## duckmania (Jun 3, 2014)

I run a 22 Mowdy, it has lots of hull up front, but I still avoid Aransas when its pumping 25mph or more. Just too bumpy.


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## ESCB Factory (Apr 30, 2006)

*ES Custom Boats - SIMMONS Revolution 25*

Our new design is aiming to deliver ultra shallow performance while improving rough water ride & gains in efficiency, with sleek & sexy styling.

Demo boat is being build now!

Eric Simmons


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## fishin shallow (Jul 31, 2005)

sotexhookset said:


> Makes a huge difference. Fished out of my buddies 21' H Cat a few years ago then bought my 24' H Cat a couple years ago. Much more solid in big chop being its almost four feet longer and a good bit wider.


Off topic but what is the difference in shallow water performance in the 2 lengths. Draft and hole shot?


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## Jt89 (Sep 25, 2013)

I run a 19 shoalwater cat and besides cat sneeze it handles it very well. Iv done low 30s in some pretty good chop prob 2s and with a full boat. If u know how to hit waves and when to use throttle and trim it makes a big difference on what u can get a boat to go through imo 

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## sotexhookset (Jun 4, 2011)

fishin shallow said:


> Off topic but what is the difference in shallow water performance in the 2 lengths. Draft and hole shot?


The 24' drafts in less water but they both can run in 8" or so soft bottom. Thing is the weight between the two if you hang one up. The 24 is much heavier. Stuck mine on a sand flat last year and had to get towed out a few hours later. Zero chance of moving it.


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## sotexhookset (Jun 4, 2011)




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## Im Headed South (Jun 28, 2006)

Why would you run straight across Aransas or Galveston bay in a 25 to 30 mph wind? I've seen those conditions in Aransas and there isn't a bay boat made that's going to make that ride any where near comfortable and you'll more than likely tear something up in the process. When your spearing waves in a 24' HO it doesn't take long to find a shoreline once you get the burning saltwater out of your eyes.


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## Fishdog (Jun 22, 2004)

When I test drove the new El Pescador 21' Cat with the g2 250 out in ES Bay the wind was steady well over 20 mph. We drove it in heavy chop about 60 mph in a sweeping circle and never got a drop of water on us. It was a MUCH smoother, drier ride than I expected once we got the boat running on TOP of the chop. I ordered one then and there. There will be a learning curve after running RFL's for 25 years.

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## 98aggie77566 (Jul 7, 2009)

Fishdog said:


> When I test drove the new El Pescador 21' Cat with the g2 250 out in ES Bay the wind was steady well over 20 mph. We drove it in heavy chop about 60 mph in a sweeping circle and never got a drop of water on us. It was a MUCH smoother, drier ride than I expected once we got the boat running on TOP of the chop. I ordered one then and there. There will be a learning curve after running RFL's for 25 years.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


60 mph in 20+ mph winds and a heavy chop?

That's what I'm talking about!!


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## SSST (Jun 9, 2011)

98aggie77566 said:


> 60 mph in 20+ mph winds and a heavy chop?
> 
> That's what I'm talking about!!


I will add that I rode with a guide on one in a 20 mph day in an EP Cat and he stay hammered down across Baffin, 55-57 mph. The boat just kinda jumped from wave to wave, I was very impressed. Only other Cat I can compare to is a 23' Shoal Cat, and the EP Cat wins rough water capability. I've been in Aransas Bay many times when it was just plain torture.


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## 98aggie77566 (Jul 7, 2009)

SSST said:


> I will add that I rode with a guide on one in a 20 mph day in an EP Cat and he stay hammered down across Baffin, 55-57 mph. The boat just kinda jumped from wave to wave, I was very impressed. Only other Cat I can compare to is a 23' Shoal Cat, and the EP Cat wins rough water capability. I've been in Aransas Bay many times when it was just plain torture.


Like I said...impressive.

Maybe it's just me....but jumping from wave to wave at 60 mph kinda sounds like the theory that going over a speed bump at 60 mph makes it smoother.

No worries on my part...my boat is a 50mph boat.

Personally...if I'm with a guide driving like that...I'll find myself telling him to slow the **** down.


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## SSST (Jun 9, 2011)

98aggie77566 said:


> Like I said...impressive.
> 
> Maybe it's just me....but jumping from wave to wave at 60 mph kinda sounds like the theory that going over a speed bump at 60 mph makes it smoother.
> 
> ...


He asked us when we headed out if we could handle a rough ride, and we had everything very secure. We got a little sidespray on us, so it wasn't a true dry ride. It was 3 youngsters and myself, I got to sit by the Captain, so I was good, lol. Baffin at 20 is no Aransas at 20.


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## bigfishtx (Jul 17, 2007)

Cats can take rough water if your back can handle it. Not many of them can handle running straight into a big bay chop though.


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## twelfth man (Sep 1, 2005)

*Dargel Kat 250 doin' work......*

A few pics for perspective of the Dargel Kat.


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## bjmillet (Apr 9, 2012)

Now that's a cat that can take rough seas


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## bigfishtx (Jul 17, 2007)

twelfth man said:


> A few pics for perspective of the Dargel Kat.


King of the rough water Cats.


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## Anderson Guide Service (Oct 21, 2016)

My cat takes the waves pretty good but there is no way I want to run dead into a 25-30mph wind in Aransas. I wouldn't want to do it in a 31 Bertram either though.


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## duckmania (Jun 3, 2014)

I ran around a little in my Mowdy on Saturday, it was rough, borderline unsafe.


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## blackjack runner (Feb 24, 2015)

Aransas Bay can get nasty. Going from a Blackjack to a Cat I can honestly say pucker factor increases dramatically. I will look for alternative fishing areas if I fish at all in higher wind conditions. Can the cats run in 2 - 3' chop. Yes. Can you go into the gulf with them. Yes. You can also run a jon boat in the same conditions. Doesn't make it right or smart. Never had a wave come over the front on a deep v, but have had this happen numerous times with the cat. Just aint fun.


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## Ckill (Mar 9, 2007)

I'm in the market for a new boat currently run a Nautic Star 214 shallow bay. I fish Aransas from Goose Island. I cant go longer then 22'. I feel like that puts me out of the cat market for the rough waters around there. I am up for any suggestions from people who know the area! Thanks! 
Needs:
High sides
Aft Seating
draft at rest ~12


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## D HOGG (Jul 2, 2012)

sgrem said:


> 25+ winds makes for a very big Aransas bay no matter what you are in.
> *Cats do marginally better than a flat bottom*....24+ft boat makes the biggest difference. Smaller and you just have to slow down and manage the throttle so you don't spear a wave.


My kidneys and back beg to differ sgrem. Cats perform way beyond marginally than flat bottoms. Unless your talking about the Flats Cat.


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## Anderson Guide Service (Oct 21, 2016)

A CAT can handle that area no problem. People from goose island in scooters all the time. In my opinion low sided "shallow water" boats are safer than traditional "high sided" bay boats. Take a wave over the front of a bay boat and you have a problem. In a shoalwater cat no big deal. Just hope nothing is washed over. I have been in a pathfinder that took a wave over the bow. It was a BIG deal. Those high side hold a lot of water.


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## pipeliner24 (Apr 10, 2013)

Anderson Guide Service said:


> A CAT can handle that area no problem. People from goose island in scooters all the time. In my opinion low sided "shallow water" boats are safer than traditional "high sided" bay boats. Take a wave over the front of a bay boat and you have a problem. In a shoalwater cat no big deal. Just hope nothing is washed over. I have been in a pathfinder that took a wave over the bow. It was a BIG deal. Those high side hold a lot of water.


If that was the case wouldn't offshore boats be switching over to low sides?If you're taking waves over the bow of any boat your in a bad situation and it is a big deal.Ive never seen a self bailing hull that can drain water fast enough.Cat boats serve a purpose as far as riding better than a flat bottom and shallower than a deep vee,but I'll take an old 24' Kenner over any 24' low side cat hull when it comes to crossing a bay in 20mph winds and waves big enough to come over the bow.It takes a lot bigger wave to come over a high sided boat than a low one.


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## caddis (Jan 22, 2012)

My observations:
1. It does matter how high the sides are; a low sided boat will only hold so much water as a maximum as it drains off. An amount that doesn't negatively affect flotation.
2. Wind speed....who cares? It's the wave height and spacing that matter.
3. Yes, it's easy to say you won't go out in 25mph, it's another thing to have it come up fast when you're on the other side of Aransas, Baffin, etc.
4. 60mph or anywhere near that in big waves is nuts! Although that post mentions wind speed not wave size.


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## Anderson Guide Service (Oct 21, 2016)

Majek11 said:


> If that was the case wouldn't offshore boats be switching over to low sides?If you're taking waves over the bow of any boat your in a bad situation and it is a big deal.Ive never seen a self bailing hull that can drain water fast enough.Cat boats serve a purpose as far as riding better than a flat bottom and shallower than a deep vee,but I'll take an old 24' Kenner over any 24' low side cat hull when it comes to crossing a bay in 20mph winds and waves big enough to come over the bow.It takes a lot bigger wave to come over a high sided boat than a low one.


If you take a wave over the bow of a shallowsport with no sides you are not going to sink. May not be much fun and you might loose some stuff but you will keep going. If you take a way over the bow of a boat with 3" sides it may suck but you will only have 3" of water in the boat. That is all I am trying to say.


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## JRI (Nov 11, 2011)

The ESCB R24 aka Recon is built to handle swells. I've taken one into Corpus Chisti Bay during rock the dock and that thing was solid as a rock and it was almost fun running those swells in the April wind. The Stingray is made for chop and handles that awesome but the Recon R24 handles big water great. Due to the air pressure built up in the tunnel it lands a lot softer than a v hull falling of the back of the wave. Call Eric and ask for a test drive in the bay on a windy day and I think you'll be very impressed and then he'll take you into green lake marsh and run in inches. Bring your check book too. lol


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## lurker (Feb 26, 2015)

JRI said:


> Recon is built to handle swells. I've taken one into Corpus Chisti Bay during rock the dock





JRI said:


> almost fun running those swells in the April wind.





JRI said:


> Due to the air pressure built up in the tunnel it lands a lot softer than a v hull falling of the back of the wave.


You waited 6 years for this? Lol, indeed.


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## blitz_81 (Aug 4, 2010)

I've crossed Aransas in high winds in my 23 sw. It sucked lol. Wind picked up and just about realigned my spine. Was never worried I wouldn't make it but it was not a fun ride. Much easier to just run shorelines all the way around if you can.


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## sailorguy96 (Oct 5, 2016)

Took the new Dargel Kat out last week in Ingleside. Winds were SE blowing 20+kts across corpus bay and I had to take her out in the rough stuff to see how she would do. Blew my expectations. Took a little bit to figure out the right trim and speed but once dialed in and a little throttle action she ran 30kts fairly comfortably. Chop was easily 2-3 feet. 


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## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

> Cats perform way beyond marginally than flat bottoms.


Indeed. I don't know why people say things like that when they really have no clue.

TH


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## bigfishtx (Jul 17, 2007)

sailorguy96 said:


> Took the new Dargel Kat out last week in Ingleside. Winds were SE blowing 20+kts across corpus bay and I had to take her out in the rough stuff to see how she would do. Blew my expectations. Took a little bit to figure out the right trim and speed but once dialed in and a little throttle action she ran 30kts fairly comfortably. Chop was easily 2-3 feet.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


People that lump the Dargel with the others have not been on one.


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## bigrebar (Oct 31, 2012)

bigfishtx said:


> People that lump the Dargel with the others have not been on one.


Iâ€™ll agree with that when discussing rough water. At the Rock the Dock a couple years ago, I rode in a 23 Haynie Cat and then went right over and rode in the 23 Dargel Kat.Captains went through almost same route to show shallow water and the rough water capabilities of both. There was no comparison in the rough stuff. The Dargel won hands down, I was impressed. Not to highjack the thread, but the Haynie won hands down on the shallow, no question.


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## SSST (Jun 9, 2011)

I've never been on a Dargel, but would like to see feedback on somebody that has been on both a 23 Dargel and the 24 El Pescador.


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## DSL_PWR (Jul 22, 2009)

I'd like to see the new Gulf Coast 25' Saber cat in rougher water to see what it does.


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## bigfishtx (Jul 17, 2007)

SSST said:


> I've never been on a Dargel, but would like to see feedback on somebody that has been on both a 23 Dargel and the 24 El Pescador.


If they come come to the Rock the Dock I will let you know. There are none that I know of where I fish.


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## duckmania (Jun 3, 2014)

DSL_PWR said:


> I'd like to see the new Gulf Coast 25' Saber cat in rougher water to see what it does.


Yeah I would too. Good looking boat, but looks like it could be a little heavy though.

I think those Dargels are probably the top big cats right now. The El Pescador is super nice boat but I've heard the bounce a little.


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## SSST (Jun 9, 2011)

duckmania said:


> Yeah I would too. Good looking boat, but looks like it could be a little heavy though.
> 
> I think those Dargels are probably the top big cats right now. The El Pescador is super nice boat but I've heard the bounce a little.


Just by looking at them, the Dargel would look to be the best in chop. Shoalwater and Haynie are the shallow runners, and the El Pescador somewhere in between.


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## Slimshady (Jan 11, 2005)

Are we talking about the El Pescador "Classic" cat or the newer 24Cat? Can't speak for the Dargel but can say from experience a Haynie SC handles rough water much better then the El Pescador. Hole shot, handling and speed goes to the the EP.


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## Flats Mark (Jul 30, 2009)

I have a Transcat SVT 22, and I am more impressed with that hull every time I take it out - shallow water and rough water capability. Like has been said here many times "quartering" the waves make all of the difference in the world. I have found that when I cross east or west Matagorda on a windy day that I tack it back and forth just like a sailboat - you travel further just to keep from hitting the waves head on.
But as much as I like the cat hull, it can't compare to the ride of my older XLR8 true v-hull. IMO you are still giving up a lot of rough ride capability when you go from the V-hull to the cat hull.
Everything is a trade off...


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## TXFishin (Apr 26, 2010)

98aggie77566 said:


> Like I said...impressive.
> 
> Maybe it's just me....but jumping from wave to wave at 60 mph kinda sounds like the theory that going over a speed bump at 60 mph makes it smoother.
> 
> ...


Exactly what you said, like a speed bump, " sometimes " faster can be smoother if it gets you on top and avoids dropping into the next wave, but of course depends on boat, weight loading, wave period, trim, and always safety and control.

My previous boat would top out just over 60mph, in a decent chop it would get smoother at around 45+, with 25mph to 35mph you would take a pounding, but depending on wave pattern, allot of times you wouldn't want to run it like that, while it did get on top and smooth out the safety factor and control started to outweigh the smoother ride, so I didn't run that way often unless it felt really solid, and even then you'll always have that odd double-sized wave thrown in time to time to watch out for that would increase the pucker factor, if not catch full on air

FV Relentless


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## lazuras_dc (Dec 10, 2014)

So quartering the wave is key. Anyone have suggestions on where cat hulls like the motor trimmed for big waves? 
Do you want to try and keep the bow up some to get over the wave? 
Also best times to throttle up or down?


I've heard with V hulls (and not sure if correct) but you want to trim those down so the V hull cuts through the wave a little ?


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## schoalbeast101 (Oct 23, 2014)

I have a 2010 23 Schoalwater Cat Hull. I have a 300 ETEC I don't get stupid and I have a great hole shot not goosing it. My boat is a beast hence my handle. I will give some advise with bigger waves like when you drive a car in snow. SLOW DOWN. Because of it's size Trinity Bay can get pretty nasty if you launched at Thompson's and worked your way back into Jack's pocket. The wind has come up pretty good many times but I have always felt really safe in my boat. Once you get the wave angle either going with the waves or against them and the rhythm you will be surprised at the chop you can take in these boats. I feel the best feature of these boats are the almost 24 feet length as you pass from the top of one wave to another. I only run about 3,000 - 3,250 RPM's max in white cap crop. My boat is super dry also. I would imagine that with trim tabs these boat would really excel.


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## El gato 24 (Feb 25, 2016)

Flats Mark said:


> I have a Transcat SVT 22, and I am more impressed with that hull every time I take it out - shallow water and rough water capability. Like has been said here many times "quartering" the waves make all of the difference in the world. I have found that when I cross east or west Matagorda on a windy day that I tack it back and forth just like a sailboat - you travel further just to keep from hitting the waves head on.
> But as much as I like the cat hull, it can't compare to the ride of my older XLR8 true v-hull. IMO you are still giving up a lot of rough ride capability when you go from the V-hull to the cat hull.
> Everything is a trade off...


I have the SVT 240 . I think the extra 2 ft really makes a difference . Even though a V hull may have a bit of advantage, I think the SVT does EVERYTHING really well . My buddy has a 25' Dargel and that boat is a beast . I can however handle the rough stuff almost as well as he does, and he concedes that my boat drafts shallower and jumps up shallower than his after we helped push him off into deeper water on the back side of Contee lake .


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