# ATC MicroWave vs. Fuji K Concept-- The "Cast-Off"



## BRH

There has been hot debate amongst builders about which spinning guides are the best, and I thought I would jump in to see if I could draw my own conclusions. I have built many rods using both the Fuji K concept, and the ATC Microwaves. I think they both do a good job in choking down the line, but I wanted to see if I could determine which one had the edge.

I decided that the best way to do so would be to build two identical rods and change only the guides. The blanks are Lamiglas LP842s 7â€™ 6-12# 1/8 â€" 1/2 oz. 10â€ Eva slit grips with Fuji SKSS split spinning seats. For the MicroWave I used the TidalWave with Nanolite rings and a Fuji Titanium SiC tip top. I used the running guides that came in the set and used the exact spacing ATC recommends. For the Fuji I used Torzite guides. 16H, 8H, 5.5M, and 4s to the tip. The guide spacing is one that I have tweaked and found works well for me.

Retail cost for the guides as built. MW- $71.92 Tortzite- $114.91

Overall quality Iâ€™m going to have to give the edge to Fuji. I had an issue with the grinding ATC does to their guide feet. In a lot of cases the feet were over ground which left a burr on the underside of the guide, which could have damaged the blank if left un-corrected. 

As far as weights go, the Torzite rod came in at 2.42 oz. and the Microwave came it at 2.52 oz. Not a huge difference, but the edge goes to Fuji.

Ok, on to the experimentâ€¦
I used the same reel for both rods, a Shimano Sustain 3000 loaded with 20lb Power Pro Slick 8. I used two different luresâ€¦ a soft plastic with a 1/8 oz. jig head that weighed .33 oz., and a small topwater that weighed .55 oz. The winds were light and variable so I did not get to compare upwind vs downwind distances. I put the reel on the MW rod first. I made and recorded 15 casts with the plastic, then did the same with the top water. I then switched the reel to the Torzite rod and repeated the process.

Here are my results in average distances:

Soft Plastic:
MW- 101.53â€™ (longest- 106.5â€™)
Torzite- 101.53â€™ (longest- 107.75)

Topwater:
MW- 142.57â€™ (longest- 152â€™)
Torzite- 153.6â€™ (longest- 167.5â€™)

During casting of the lighter lure as my buddy was calling out the distances, I knew the two rods were looking very similar. It wasnâ€™t until I added up the totals that I realized they were the exact same. 15 casts totaling 1,523â€™, each cast measured to the nearest .25â€™.

With the heavier top water, there was a noticeable advantage with Fuji setup. Not a huge advantage, but an average of 11â€™ further.

If I remove the shortest 5 casts from each set, and average the top 10 (in an attempt to factor out any poor casts), I ended up with the followingâ€¦

Soft Plastic:
MW- 103.4â€™
Torzite- 103â€™

Topwater:
MW- 145.2â€™
Torzite- 156â€™

I hope to get back out and do a similar experiment when I have a 15MPH wind so I can compare casting into the wind vs with the wind. And maybe next do the same experiment with a heavier rod and try it with a bigger topwater.

My conclusion is that while in this case the Fuji setup performed better (with the heavier lure), both systems effectively control the line, and I feel confident on building with either. At the end of the day it seems like it boils down to the same question for my customersâ€¦ How light do you want it, and how much are you willing to spend to get it there.


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## katjim00

Thanks for the testing. Just like race cars the faster you want to go the more money you got to spend. The only question I have is you used ATC chart to set up your rod, would it have been a little more equal you think if you took the time to lay them out better for the rod they were going on. This since I assume you did not use the Fuji spacing chart since you stated you found a setup you like using with Fuji.

I agree on the guide foot. I don't like how thick they are and how steep the ramp is. If they would have a better transition I would like them better. I to had to fix the rough grinding on the bottom of the foot.

Cool deal. Thanks again for doing that. Pretty cool to see comparison testing.


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## MikeK

That's some good stuff! Thanks for taking the time to do all the testing.

I have one set of the microwaves but have not used them yet. I taped them on a blank and did a little test casting but they didn't seem to do very well with monofilament. Just got some PP Slick 10# to try. katjim00 I was thinking the same thing about tweaking the layout, but the manufacturer touts ease of setup following their formula as one of the benefits.


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## Silverfox1

nice experiment,thanks


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## bowhunter29

I really appreciate you taking the time to do all the work and report your testing.

I've found the Fuji K system to be pretty outstanding but I've never given the Microwave guides a try. I set up my 5C68MXF as a spinning rod with 16H, 10H, size 6 single foot, and 3's to the tip. It casts further and smoother than any rod I own. I run 10lb braid to a 6lb (7' long) fluoro leader.

jeremy


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## Fishsurfer

That made me wet. Awesome R&D!


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## Batson-Brands

Wonderful!


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## BRH

Exactly right, Mike. They sell the guides as a set and tout its ease of setup. They claim that the reason they sell it in a set is because it is sold as a perfected system. They claim to have dialed in the spacing so thatâ€™s what I chose to go with. And to be quite honest, I havenâ€™t messed around with it much because of that claim. The only thing that I have adjusted is the running guides since at that point the lateral movement is all but eliminated. 

And Fuji doesnâ€™t really have a laid out spacing guideline like ATC does. They have their â€œGuide Placement Softwareâ€ which calculates placement for all their different guide trains. Iâ€™ve messed around with it and found it to be confusing, and it wonâ€™t ever display the 16, 8, 5.5 layout that I like to use. 

And the experiment isnâ€™t overâ€¦ Iâ€™m gonna get back out when the wind is blowingâ€¦ maybe add a couple different lures to the mix as well.


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## cfulbright

Awesome head to head, thank you for doing it!!! I always wanted to on identical rods but never have... I have compared but on different rods.

Here is my 2cents about the microwave, 
1. Agree with the foots, not a huge deal though because I grind and clean up on all guides anyways.
2. REALLY wish they would make the stripper guide out of titanium, almost seems like false advertisement not to. I was disappointed when I got the Ti set for a customer and it was heavy stainless. The weight of the two systems would be almost the same if they did make it out of Ti. 
3. I do think the rings are really good on the nanolite MW 
4. Ease of setup, and cost are a big win for MW.
5. Here is where, for my use the MW fell short is light lures into the wind. The super small stripper seemed to bunch up line, and this is one of the main reason I use spinning gear is light lures and windy days lmao. 

and Id like you to test the lure I was having bunch up on me if you have time, it should put both systems to the test... Double rigged, 3" chicken boy shrimp on 1/16oz jig heads... (speck rig 16" lower and 8"upper leader)


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## RJH

Maybe a year or two ago there was a similar discussion about this type thing on another forum. The feeling was that a given rod blank can only cast a given lure so far so once you have two very good guide systems, both set up as good as possible, there will not be very much difference in the casting distances between them. FWIW I just find the MicroWaves to be easy to set up.


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## cfulbright

RJH said:


> Maybe a year or two ago there was a similar discussion about this type thing on another forum. The feeling was that a given rod blank can only cast a given lure so far so once you have two very good guide systems, both set up as good as possible, there will not be very much difference in the casting distances between them. FWIW I just find the MicroWaves to be easy to set up.


You are right about a rod having limits of what a rod can cast, but I can tell the difference in casting and sensitivity on a rod with Ti Torzites vs SS alconites, the Torzites make a lure explode off the rod.

Also BRH another test you can do to test just the guides is cast a 1/4 oz round weight. That would take a lot of variables out, and the line moves pretty fast though the guides casting just a 1/4oz round.


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## BRH

I will definitely be adding a couple more lures to the mix for the next round. 1/4 or 1/2 oz. round weight might not be a bad idea. And a tandem rig would be interesting with the way they helicopter in the wind. I foresee that being the shortest casting. And I might just build up another rod to throw a different guide train into the mix.


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## CroakerJO

BRH, thanks for the impartial review. It's not often we see a comparison so carefully thought through and we appreciate the effort you made to reach your conclusions. The MicroWave folks tend to never miss a chance to talk about how superior their product is and we tend to leave those claims alone in favor of folks like you who either 1) want to build truly "custom" rods that demonstrate a working knowledge of the way guides and blanks work together or 2) those who have the experience to see through the claims and get down to some solid (and logical) thinking on how all this works.

Almost 2 years ago to the day, we completed our study of the Microwave and I published a blog on our site detailing the results. To date, it's been read by over 10,000 builders and it is surprisingly similar in many ways to the results you have posted. We used practice plugs rather than artificial lures and consistently out-casted the MV system by 10 to 15 feet under a variety of conditions. We did not use a wide variety of weights and I commend you for thinking of a factor we overlooked. As you might expect, many have considered our results "biased" and I understand that, but your research supports many of the conclusions we reached. We also addressed some other issues and anyone interested can read them here: http://anglersresource.net/Blog/tabid/627/Default.aspx?tag=KR+vs+Microwave

You also made a comment about GPS and it's relevancy for the KR Concept. Although GPS is an excellent tool for New Guide Concept layouts, I will be the first to admit that modifying the existing idea to allow for the Rapid Choke of the KR Concept was a bit of a stretch. The good news is we have completely reworked "GPS for KR Concept " and are within a few weeks of posting a new module that we have extensively tested with excellent results. The best news is that we have created an alternative method that does not require reel measurements to determine spool axle angle but relies instead on our collected knowledge of angles for different "Series" of reels. If you know the reel series, handle length from butt to front of spool, blank length and line choice, we can generate an instant and EXCELLENT layout for a KR Concept rod. The basis of the module can be seen on page 46 and 47 of our current catalog detailing KL-H guide "groups". The new module will make a KR Concept rod VERY easy to build, but results will be tailored to the blank and reel being used...something Microwave completely ignores.

I must admit, as often as I see the "it's not a concept, it's reality" slogan splashed across every forum on the net it's difficult sometimes to remain above the fray.

We just returned from Japan for our annual meeting with Fuji in Shizuoka and they showed us plans for a beautiful new research center that will house prototype stamping machinery, 3D printers, corrosion and strength testing chambers and a 35 meter indoor casting "hall" with a fully automated casting machine and ultra slow motion video capability. 5 full time engineers will occupy the space for a single purpose...innovative rod components now and into the future.

That's the kind of "reality" you can sink your teeth into!


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