# National Geographic show on Buddy Guindon?



## Trouthappy

My buddy in Beaumont just called, said _National Geographic_ is making eight episodes on commercial bottom fishing out of Galveston, the boat captain owns his own seafood market. That would almost have to be Buddy Guindon. It starts next week. Anybody hear that same story?


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## WestEndAngler

Trouthappy said:


> My buddy in Beaumont just called, said _National Geographic_ is making eight episodes on commercial bottom fishing out of Galveston, the boat captain owns his own seafood market. That would almost have to be Buddy Guindon. It starts next week. Anybody hear that same story?


http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/big-fish-texas/


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## Trouthappy

That might be his son in the picture. Longlining for tile. Years ago Buddy told me one day his longline hung up on his rudder, the line got tight as the spool kept turning. He leaned over the stern to look right as it popped, and it cut off most of his lower lip. That main line was thicker than weed-eater line. It was a long, slow ride back to Galveston. Don't know if his crew tried to sew his lip back on or what. I never should have sold him (via Howard Horton) my blue 23-foot SeaCraftâ€”those boats are hard to find now.


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## Talmbout

How many sharecroppers does he own?


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## donf

Great
A show on the lead plaintiff who destroys our snapper season.


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## hilton

Guindon is one of the largest Sea Lords, and is using the money he is getting from the harvest of OUR public trust resources (that our government gave to him for FREE), to fund lawsuits to shut down the Gulf recreational fisheries. We are, after all, competitors in his eyes, for HIS fish.

http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2016/01/kingpins_of_the_gulf_make_mill.html

They are having a big shendig at the Opera House down in Galveston at 6:00 tonight - should be quite the scene. This would be a great time to go and tell Guindon and his EDF/CFA entourage exactly what you think of his "success".


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## hookN

here we GO again !! LOL


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## roundman

i heard one of his boats the other day sat on a rig offshore about 80 miles out and in 48 hours and took 15,000 lbs. of snaps off it,:headknock


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## J_Philla

roundman said:


> i heard one of his boats the other day sat on a rig offshore about 80 miles out and in 48 hours and took 15,000 lbs. of snaps off it,:headknock


you should thank him.... now you can catch something besides snaps!!!!


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## Bird

J_Philla said:


> you should thank him.... now you can catch something besides snaps!!!!


Instead of a few guys going out and catching a whole bunch all year long, I'd prefer a whole bunch being able to go out and catch a few all year long.


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## J_Philla

Bird said:


> Instead of a few guys going out and catching a whole bunch all year long, I'd prefer a whole bunch being able to go out and catch a few all year long.


thats just it... anyone can go buy a commercial permit and get quota, then go fish whenever u want to. it's not like the general public cant obtain licenses and quota.


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## hookN

J_Philla said:


> thats just it... anyone can go buy a commercial permit and get quota, then go fish whenever u want to. it's not like the general public cant obtain licenses and quota.


kudos to ya :brew2:


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## Talmbout

Dr. Phill didn't you buy/lease a commercial permit and some quota? Can you tell us how that worked out for you?


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## hilton

Aren't commercial permits capped?


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## ftw66

J_Philla said:


> thats just it... anyone can go buy a commercial permit and get quota, then go fish whenever u want to. it's not like the general public cant obtain licenses and quota.


Why should the recreational fisherman have to do this to get their portion of public source? That's the whole problem with this grossly mismanaged system, it caters to the choice few, and not the public.


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## hilton

Bird said:


> Instead of a few guys going out and catching a whole bunch all year long, I'd prefer a whole bunch being able to go out and catch a few all year long.


THAT would benefit the Gulf states and their coastal communities in a HUGE way instead of benefitting a handful of commercial corporations.


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## hookN

ftw66 said:


> Why should the recreational fisherman have to do this to get their portion of public source? That's the whole problem with this grossly mismanaged system, it caters to the choice few, and not the public.


you're not comprehending correctly , J-Philla didn't say that recreational fishermen HAVE to do this. 
What he's saying is , if you want a bigger piece of your recreational pie, you can buy a commercial permit and load the chit out of your given quota.....:headknock


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## ftw66

hookN said:


> you're not comprehending correctly , J-Philla didn't say that recreational fishermen HAVE to do this.
> What he's saying is , if you want a bigger piece of your recreational pie, you can buy a commercial permit and load the chit out of your given quota.....:headknock


I'm aware recs don't "have" to do it. I think that it's a rather audastic thought to even entertain, buying a commercial permit is not the solution. I'm all for a man making a living, but the current system is ridiculously lopsided, and beyond corrupt.


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## Jolly Roger

hookN said:


> you're not comprehending correctly , J-Philla didn't say that recreational fishermen HAVE to do this.
> What he's saying is , if you want a bigger piece of your recreational pie, you can buy a commercial permit and load the chit out of your given quota.....:headknock


so what yall are saying is in order for a REC fishermen to go and catch a few Red snapper he has to become a Commercial fishermen......

what a f'cked up system


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## JKD

hookN said:


> you're not comprehending correctly , J-Philla didn't say that recreational fishermen HAVE to do this.
> What he's saying is , if you want a bigger piece of your recreational pie, you can buy a commercial permit and load the chit out of your given quota.....:headknock


Public. Resource. Shouldn't need anything else for an argument.


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## Gethookedadventures

There's a season on those things?


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## ftw66

Gethookedadventures said:


> There's a season on those things?


Well done sir!


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## cogswell

If it wasn't for the Federal regulations, the dolphins would go hungry. Nothing like watching a slick of snapper floating away from your fishing spot even if you try to revive them just to watch sharks and dolphin take what you aren't supposed to keep.


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## roundman

Jolly Roger said:


> so what yall are saying is in order for a REC fishermen to go and catch a few Red snapper he has to become a Commercial fishermen......
> 
> what a f'cked up system


or pay one to take us on a " commercial snapper experience charter trip " if we agree tp buy atleast 125 lbs. @ 16 a lb :headknock


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## Gethookedadventures

Just saw the ad for it while watching wicked tuna. My ole lady thought I lost it. Cursing at the tv and flipping it off.


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## Elgatoloco

I will tell you this is the first to many glorification of the commercial fisherman taking away from the recreational fisherman. This is a disgrace to this sport and our natural resources. The reason why the commercials have more stake or share than the recs is they are united in there cause. As recreational fisherman we must stand up for what's ours . 

Tom


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## hookN




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## Bird

As a recreational fisherman, I buy my permit every year. It's called a fishing license.


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## Stir It Up

This should be a great opertunity for them to showcase how "difficult" it is for them to make a living off the "highly over fished" snapper population in the gulf....


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## Tangled Lines

hookN is Feelin the Bern 2016


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## Mako-Wish

I watched a 15 min sneak preview of it last night on the nat geo website. As sick to my stomach as it makes me to see them pull a seasons worth of fish over the gunnell on 1 drop with those trolley lines, I'm still gonna watch it. Just to see Galveston on tv.


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## Where'dMyBaitGo

I'd imagine everyone is going to watch it, whether they like it or not. 

It is relevant to our location and sport.


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## sharkbait-tx70

*Letters*

Write a letter to Nat. Geo and tell them what's up.


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## ftw66

Where'dMyBaitGo said:


> I'd imagine everyone is going to watch it, whether they like it or not.
> 
> It is relevant to our location and sport.


I won't, I hope it fails miserably.


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## hookN

darn...y'all need a bigger bucket, if it makes y'all sick but still watching LOL


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## Momma's Worry

Trouthappy said:


> My buddy in Beaumont just called, said _National Geographic_ is making eight episodes on commercial bottom fishing out of Galveston, the boat captain owns his own seafood market. That would almost have to be Buddy Guindon. It starts next week. Anybody hear that same story?[/QUOTE\\\
> 
> I almost fell outa my chair when I saw that BS last night
> 
> d law


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## Momma's Worry

Gethookedadventures said:


> Just saw the ad for it while watching wicked tuna. My ole lady thought I lost it. Cursing at the tv and flipping it off.


I did the same exact thing !!!


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## Mako-Wish

In one of the segments he's talking about conservation, and how important it is to sustain the fishery. He claims "as fisherman we actually put more restrictions on ourselves than the federal government does." Comical.


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## popeye_iv

Funny. Im new to TX and fishing the Gulf. This battle between recreational and commercial fishing is all new to me. Commercial fishing on the Great Lakes is just about completely banned IN FAVOR of recreational fishing. 

I will be watching.


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## Cabollero

hookN said:


> darn...y'all need a bigger bucket, if it makes y'all sick but still watching LOL


If I'm not mistaken "hookin" is a term used by prostitutes to describe a day at the office. That being said what would it cost to have you go "F" yourself?


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## Never easy

Cabollero said:


> If I'm not mistaken "hookin" is a term used by prostitutes to describe a day at the office. That being said what would it cost to have you go "F" yourself?


 Love it!!! you got green!!!


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## WilliamH

cabollero said:


> if i'm not mistaken "hookin" is a term used by prostitutes to describe a day at the office. That being said what would it cost to have you go "f" yourself?


lol . . . good one!


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## Jolly Roger

Cabollero said:


> If I'm not mistaken "hookin" is a term used by prostitutes to describe a day at the office. That being said what would it cost to have you go "F" yourself?


You sir, are winner of the internet today, congrats


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## trapper67

Jolly Roger said:


> You sir, are winner of the internet today, congrats


DING DING..........we have a winner!!


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## hilton

Cabollero said:


> If I'm not mistaken "hookin" is a term used by prostitutes to describe a day at the office. That being said what would it cost to have you go "F" yourself?


Prostitution is certainly the correct analogy for the people involved in this scam.


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## jeffsfishin

J_Philla said:


> thats just it... anyone can go buy a commercial permit and get quota, then go fish whenever u want to. it's not like the general public cant obtain licenses and quota.


It's not quite that easy there buddy.


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## ftw66

Cabollero said:


> If I'm not mistaken "hookin" is a term used by prostitutes to describe a day at the office. That being said what would it cost to have you go "F" yourself?


Some day, if I work hard enough, I may have a fraction of your wit. Well done, indeed!


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## batsandowls

I will not support the show and I keep my state snapper when I want... I don't care anymore... I use too... Not anymore. Tx allows 4 day. I will no longer go along with the Feds BS

F*** that show!


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## saltaholic

Cabollero said:


> If I'm not mistaken "hookin" is a term used by prostitutes to describe a day at the office. That being said what would it cost to have you go "F" yourself?


Hahahahaha


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## Where'dMyBaitGo

batsandowls said:


> I will not support the show and I keep my state snapper when I want... I don't care anymore... I use too... Not anymore. Tx allows 4 day. I will no longer go along with the Feds BS
> 
> F*** that show!


I recall a fond moto from other friends boats...

"My boat only catches state snapper"


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## batsandowls

Where'dMyBaitGo said:


> I recall a fond moto from other friends boats...
> 
> "My boat only catches state snapper"


Exactly!


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## briggss1

I've been out of pocket for a few months. After I just rinsed the vomit in my mouth from resurrecting this memory, I just remembered that there was something up where the States were going to take back their rights to manage the fisheries in lieu of the Feds - allowing us Recs to have a much longer season with smaller bag limits but no state limits. Is that still the case or did that fall out of order too (or am I misremembering)?


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## Sabine Flounder Pounder

*Noose in the rope*

Heard it said once, give a fool enough rope and sooner or later he will hang himself with it. Have you ever heard the PROOF IS IN THE PUDDING?, But my favorite is, " when life gives you lemons, make lemonade. Fellows what better way to get to get our knowledge of the snapper population to Congress than a TV show about our adversary showboating and shoving it down our throats. What we need to do is contact our congressmen, encourage them and their colleagues to watch the show and then explain to the thousands why we recs get 10 day seasons. We have our work cut out so get busy.


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## Cabollero

Sabine Flounder Pounder said:


> Heard it said once, give a fool enough rope and sooner or later he will hang himself with it. Have you ever heard the PROOF IS IN THE PUDDING?, But my favorite is, " when life gives you lemons, make lemonade. Fellows what better way to get to get our knowledge of the snapper population to Congress than a TV show about our adversary showboating and shoving it down our throats. What we need to do is contact our congressmen, encourage them and their colleagues to watch the show and then explain to the thousands why we recs get 10 day seasons. We have our work cut out so get busy.


Doing anything is better than doing nothing. But I will say the show probably follows the same format as all the other garbage on TV. "Where are the fish? Will we ever find any fish?? Will I loose my legacy??? Will by boat burst into flames and sink???? Will Bobby ever get off the smack????? Then a last ditch Hail Mary netting each deck hand $37k. You can write Nat Geo but the shows probably in the can and paid for. Best bet is to write the advertisers then maybe you won't get tormented with it next year.


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## Where'dMyBaitGo

Just remember, it is being marketed to the UK, so I doubt anyone will care about our plight here. Still it is good footage for our locals to see and be aware of.


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## jeffsfishin

Cabollero said:


> Doing anything is better than doing nothing. But I will say the show probably follows the same format as all the other garbage on TV. "Where are the fish? Will we ever find any fish?? Will I loose my legacy??? Will by boat burst into flames and sink???? Will Bobby ever get off the smack????? Then a last ditch Hail Mary netting each deck hand $37k. You can write Nat Geo but the shows probably in the can and paid for. Best bet is to write the advertisers then maybe you won't get tormented with it next year.


 Problem is the Reef fish shareholders Alliance, CFH, EDF will be sending 20 letters to your one, Unlike the CCA they figured out this game a long time ago, and it show's.


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## Snookered

I've got a crisp $20 bill that says they don't ever show the trail of discards behind any of the snapper boats....they'll conveniently edit that out or gloss over it somehow....

or my personal prediction; somehow the private rec's will get blamed for commercial discards....LOL
snookered


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## roundman

gdn;

*Galveston on the small screen in National Geographic show *

   Jennifer Reynolds/The Daily News file photo 
*Red snapper*

Anthony McComb helps unload a boatâ€™s catch of fish Thursday Dec. 31, 2015, at Katieâ€™s Seafood in Galveston.































Posted: Tuesday, February 2, 2016 9:00 pm 
By BERNICE TORREGROSSA Correspondent 
Viewers tuning in to â€œBig Fish, Texas,â€ the new Galveston-based reality show airing on the National Geographic cable channel, may find themselves not just entertained and educated, but also a little hungry.

Close-up shots of bright red snapper, gleaming tilefish and other fresh catches are likely to lead more than a few in the audience to put fish on the menu in the near future.

The eight episodes in the first season of â€œBig Fish, Texas,â€ which premieres tonight at 8 p.m., highlight some of the Gulf of Mexicoâ€™s most prized fish as well as fishermen Buddy Guindon and his family, who catch and sell them at Katieâ€™s Seafood Market.

The first episode chronicles a high-pressure hunt to land a big load of red snapper, and later episodes take the crew in search of Warsaw and grouper.

â€œYouâ€™re going to see a lot of Galveston in the show, and a lot of the Guindons,â€ said Ryann Lauckner, producer of â€œBig Fish, Texas.â€ â€œItâ€™s a show about a really good family.â€

All four of Buddy Guindonâ€™s sons â€" Nick, Hans, Ricky and Christopher â€" are featured, along with wife, Katie, brother Kenny and family patriarch Greg.

Lauckner and a production crew spent three months in Galveston to capture the action at Katieâ€™s Seafood Market and the family dynamics involved in running the market, where family members have roles ranging from catching the fish to selling them both in the market at Pier 19 and wholesale throughout the country.

Locals who have shopped at Katieâ€™s may be surprised by the overall scope of their operations.

â€œWe handle about 25 percent of the fish caught in the Gulf of Mexico,â€ Buddy Guindon said.

The market relies on about 30 boats to bring their catches in, including seven owned by Guindon.

â€œThere were 5 million pounds of red snapper caught in the Gulf of Mexico last year, and we brought in a million pounds of it right here at Katieâ€™s,â€ Guindon said.

The road to a television series was a long one.

â€œThis started about five years ago with some people who looked me up to talk about sustainability,â€ Guindon said.

â€œBig Fish, Texasâ€ delivers on that interest in sustainability, featuring a segment in the first episode where each red snapper is tagged with a unique Gulf Wild number so that the consumer can trace its journey from ocean to plate.

Gulf Wild is a voluntary program developed by fishermen to protect the Gulf and its resources. All Gulf Wild partners agree to conservation standards that guide how the seafood will be harvested.

â€œThe Gulf Wild tag is  sustainability at its finest,â€ said Nick Guindon, manager of Katieâ€™s Seafood Market sales. â€œWe put more restrictions on ourselves than the federal government does.â€

â€œBig Fish, Texasâ€ may be  sustainable as well; Lauckner is hoping that the response to the show will generate interest from National Geographic in another season. Galvestonians should be hoping for an extension as well, since every episode includes beautiful footage of the Gulf, the port and other Island locales.

â€œI wanted a show Galveston could be proud of,â€ Guindon said.


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## roundman

Texas Governor and fisherman working together for a brighter tomorrow and industry involvement in the management of our fisheries



*Charter Fisherman's Association*

The state management farce. Many claims of how the states can manage the fishery in the EEZ are dubious at best. Fact is the gulf states do not have a track record of ever managing a fishery in the EEZ. They simply claim they can because they produced some contradictory landings data. While data collection pilots like ISnapper found results consistent with the federal MRIP landings . The States , especially Florida Louisiana and Texas do have a long track record of making management decisions that have repeatedly hurt the industry and the majority of Americans access.

Snapper bill could kill fishing jobs
H.R. 3094 creates loopholes that will erode the commercial red snapper fishery.
thehill.com

Charter Fisherman's Association


Scott Hickman No protection for federally permitted charter boats or the 98% of Americans that use our platform to access the fishery like the protection we all are afforded under federal law. They get the charter boats and commercial boats under state control then the CCA will gut Americas access to the fishery like a gut shot hog!


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## Cabollero

Maybe someone could take the Gov wade fishing. Get a little face time. You know. For the "cause".


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## Jolly Roger

as much as I dislike how the commercial and CFA have screwed over REC fishermen for there own personal gains. Simple truth is REC fishermen can not fight all of them, we will have to compromise if we ever expect to gain anything. 

leave Commercial fishing as it is, and work out a deal with the charter fleet to there advantage is the only way RECs will see state control passed in Bill H.R.3094. Some commercial and charter captains will fight state control no matter what, but there are a LOT of commercial fishermen and charter captains that do not like the current system and have been screwed over that would support state control.

Us RECs are going to have to work together with them or going to be stuck with FED control of our fishery, and it will only get worst.


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## saltaholic

Read this

https://garretgraves.house.gov/media-center/blog-posts/all-men-are-equal-fish


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## hilton

Cabollero said:


> Doing anything is better than doing nothing. But I will say the show probably follows the same format as all the other garbage on TV. "Where are the fish? Will we ever find any fish?? Will I loose my legacy??? Will by boat burst into flames and sink???? Will Bobby ever get off the smack????? Then a last ditch Hail Mary netting each deck hand $37k. You can write Nat Geo but the shows probably in the can and paid for. Best bet is to write the advertisers then maybe you won't get tormented with it next year.


Exactly. Speaking of trashy reality shows on TV, news is that Honey Boo Boo stars in Guindon's next episode as his side kick/deck hand.


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## silentpardner

saltaholic said:


> Read this
> 
> http://garretgraves.house.gov/media-center/blog-posts/all-men-are-equal-fish


NOW, go read this! This is the only political speech I have EVER read or heard that actually brings tears to my eyes. Call me a wussy!
http://www.hooverassociation.org/hoover/speeches/men_are_equal_before_fish.php


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## trapper67

*agreed*



silentpardner said:


> NOW, go read this! This is the only political speech I have EVER read or heard that actually brings tears to my eyes. Call me a wussy!
> http://www.hooverassociation.org/hoover/speeches/men_are_equal_before_fish.php


Thanks for sharing


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## hookN

Cabollero said:


> Maybe someone could take the Gov wade fishing. Get a little face time. You know. For the "cause".[/QUOT
> 
> Que Viva Buddy !!!:texasflag


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## blaze 'em

I don't know who they are, but I hate em.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk


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## Harbormaster

I almost made 12 minutes! More trash on the tube!


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## Chase This!

Really, who wants to watch a show about bandit rigging for snapper and the exciting art of the bottom long line? LoL


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## saltaholic

The show sucks and the fact that these people filed lawsuits to keep recs off the water makes me sick! One day it will all come to light and the system will change Mr. graves article is a great explanation


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## mrsh978

I had to watch. Just to burn it in my ***** how mismanaged RS is/are. This show is how to generate $70,000 in 15 hrs. I guess I need to reply to NatGeo about the skewed view they present. If they want real drama, I will ask them to look at both sides - and I doubt they will


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## SaltwaterTom

You want something from legislators? You have to speak their language; they don't do anything that does not benefit them in some way.








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## blaze 'em

Chase This! said:


> Really, who wants to watch a show about bandit rigging for snapper and the exciting art of the bottom long line? LoL


Hey man, just looking to potlick a few spots that's all....

All kidding aside I love eating them, and who's to say it stops at snapper. Do your homework on EDF and see who they are in bed with/who's in bed with them. Let's just say the fishing industry is just a drop in the bucket...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk


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## Cabollero

What's up with your Obama phone Hookn? I've never seen anything quote a post in that sort of format. Any who, the point of a rebuttal is to actually make a point or in some cases say something clever. I don't want to be mean enough to run you off as you have been good for quite a bit of green as of late. However if the forum is to continue to laugh at your expense you are going to have to try to string together some sort of complete thought. My advise to you is get a good nights sleep, eat a healthy breakfast and try again tomorrow.


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## mrsh978

I did send email to NG- compared the snapper "ALLIANCE" to that of the ivory trade-driven by greed. 

will see if it stirs the pot at all


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## TrailChaser

In a way, I really hope this show gets popular. There are hundreds of thousands of recreational fishermen across the country who would be really quick to raise their voice and be heard on an issue like this. If they don't know what's happening, they remain silent. This show will shine a spotlight on what they are doing, and at some time, the word/story is bound to hit mainstream if they get popular.
I was 100% out of the loop on this issue until I saw a post on another forum about the shows airing time. I posted here on 2cool and someone linked me to this thread...

Now I'm left wondering how the hell this is even possible. 10 day season and 2 fish for "us" when these 3 guys can just jump on a boat and run out and catch 15,000lbs of red snapper in 36hrs like taking candy from a baby? You might as well say 2 guys. That kid was just milking his poor little arm while sitting on his *** most of the time.

Is there any group heading the fight against those regulations that a random guy can join and maybe throw some money at? I have a pretty big following on youtube and could talk about the issue and ask people to get involved. It would be nice to see them put in their place... 15,000lbs in 36hrs, and somehow recreational fishermen are a problem...


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## saltaholic

CCA and FRA are fighting it

With the other states claiming 9 mile boundaries we are looking at a 0-3 day season this year


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## Momma's Worry

*Snapper Wars*

Big Fish Texas ....best thing to ever come along for rec snapper fishermen .....this show is going to **** off a lot of folks.........

interesting ...all the snaps I saw were 3/6lbs market size..no dinks/throw backs,no sows...
got an order to fill? just jump in the boat steam out 50mls in the ship channel
and it's crank city ....looked to be one night and basically two men decked 15K lbs ? that's two of my 26' Grady-Whites loaded
really ?.....I was on my second shot of R&R so I might have missed something


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## Reel-Chaos$

*Crappy system!*

You think 15, 000 lbs in 36 hrs is bad. The quota from the earlier post is crazy:

Posted: Tuesday, February 2, 2016 9:00 pm 
By BERNICE TORREGROSSA Correspondent

â€œThere were 5 million pounds of red snapper caught in the Gulf of Mexico last year, and we brought in a million pounds of it right here at Katieâ€™s,â€ Guindon said.

That is over 35,500 fish at the 28 lb average last year. That stinks!


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## ccrocker1313

Whambulance !!!!
If you've ever ordered Red Snapper in a restaurant or Seafood house, how do you think it got there ?? 

And if you have **** !!!!

Did anyone hear ???

Develop a accountable fishery mgt plan and then fish year round. 

Stop believing CCAs Bullshirt !!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Bankin' On It

His kid that runs the Blackjack is a lazy one. Dopey too. Doesn't see the value in learning how to fix his engine? 50 miles offshore all the time and no mechanic skills? Wow.


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## saltaholic

A show on any other comm besides the one that filed a suit to keep recs off "his" fish may be slightly more tolerable.......

There is no rec group that can keep up with fighting this cause as the comm funding for suits and lobbying comes from much deeper pockets.


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## gater

*Fish*



ccrocker1313 said:


> Whambulance !!!!
> If you've ever ordered Red Snapper in a restaurant or Seafood house, how do you think it got there ??
> 
> And if you have **** !!!!
> 
> Did anyone hear ???
> 
> Develop a accountable fishery mgt plan and then fish year round.
> 
> Stop believing CCAs Bullshirt !!!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Just fish from June 1st to Sept 1st keep your four 16" fish. Screw the ten day seasons. What CCA bull shirt are you talking about


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## Cabollero

ccrocker1313 said:


> Whambulance !!!!
> If you've ever ordered Red Snapper in a restaurant or Seafood house, how do you think it got there ??
> 
> And if you have **** !!!!
> 
> Did anyone hear ???
> 
> Develop a accountable fishery mgt plan and then fish year round.
> 
> Stop believing CCAs Bullshirt !!!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Can't seem to figure out your M.O. You sell a lot of boats to commercial fishermen last year?


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## J.Oberholtzer

My snapper season is open 365 days a year.


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## Kenner21

ccrocker1313 said:


> Whambulance !!!!
> If you've ever ordered Red Snapper in a restaurant or Seafood house, how do you think it got there ??
> 
> And if you have **** !!!!
> 
> Did anyone hear ???
> 
> Develop a accountable fishery mgt plan and then fish year round.
> 
> Stop believing CCAs Bullshirt !!!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What CCA Bullshirt? The CCA originally sided with the feds until it's membership complained and they got on the right side of all of this. So far they are only .org that has had a law suit brought in front of a judge over Admn40. They lost but at least they are trying. When you are fighting the feds in a federal court common sense goes out with the bath water. Also I don't buy any commercially caught fish that originate from the Gulf of Mexico.


----------



## chuck richey

ccrocker1313 said:


> Whambulance !!!!
> If you've ever ordered Red Snapper in a restaurant or Seafood house, how do you think it got there ??
> 
> And if you have **** !!!!
> 
> Did anyone hear ???
> 
> Develop a accountable fishery mgt plan and then fish year round.
> 
> Stop believing CCAs Bullshirt !!!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No I do not order fish from a restaurant or buy from fish houses.

How much do you think this BS on red snapper has cost the marine industry(which you work for)????????? Posts like yours will only cost you money in the long run.

Will stop at that because you are a site sponsor.


----------



## [email protected]

This thread is priceless. Clamoring on one hand that the Feds underestimate the number of snapper that you catch, and then every other comment is "eff that we fish 365 days a year". Develop a way for the Feds to accurately be able to count your fish as they are able to explicitly count every Comm fish and then you have an argument. Every fish that they catch is counted and re-counted at a minimum of 3 different levels. The feds have the ability to manipulate the unknown recreational catch from various species in a method that fits their agenda. Giving them less flexibility by having an accountable fishery gives them little choice to do what they want with the numbers. 

In terms of hating a guy that has built a business around commercial fishing- especially in terms of the financial outlay for permits, quota, boats, monitoring equipment, etc. , especially one of this size, is an incredibly ballsy investment. Kudos to the guy for doing well. 100% of that $$ generated stays here- from the point of sale down the entire supply chain. It also gives access to a US national resource to people who do not have access to it in the first place. 

Increased accountability, and better stock assessment data are the issues rec anglers should be concentrating on, not bashing a guy who made a risky investment in a risky fishery that is now cashing in on it.


----------



## ccrocker1313

*My Sales to those Guy's in the Last 15 Yrs I could count on (1) Hand, So "No" that has nothing to do with the way I see this .. *
*If the CCA was so behind the Rec. Fisherman why don't you hear more from them ? *
*To date there are more Red Snapper out there then ever, and Who has done more to insure that ? *

*The Rec Fisherman ? *
*The Commercial Fisherman ? *
*The Charter Fleet ?*

*I know there's a Lot of Great Work done in the Last 4 to 6 years by all Sides.*
*But (2) Group's have done more to insure we have fish for the Future there Livelihood Depends on it ..*

*I'll talk to anyone any time Please Call 281-787-3783 (c)*

*It's Getting Better every year out there Stop Fighting and Work together ... *


----------



## Momma's Worry

*Snapper Wars*

Falcon and Angela C.....Port Bolivar 9-7-15


----------



## saltaholic

[email protected] said:


> This thread is priceless. Clamoring on one hand that the Feds underestimate the number of snapper that you catch, and then every other comment is "eff that we fish 365 days a year". Develop a way for the Feds to accurately be able to count your fish as they are able to explicitly count every Comm fish and then you have an argument. Every fish that they catch is counted and re-counted at a minimum of 3 different levels. The feds have the ability to manipulate the unknown recreational catch from various species in a method that fits their agenda. Giving them less flexibility by having an accountable fishery gives them little choice to do what they want with the numbers.
> 
> In terms of hating a guy that has built a business around commercial fishing- especially in terms of the financial outlay for permits, quota, boats, monitoring equipment, etc. , especially one of this size, is an incredibly ballsy investment. Kudos to the guy for doing well. 100% of that $$ generated stays here- from the point of sale down the entire supply chain. It also gives access to a US national resource to people who do not have access to it in the first place.
> 
> Increased accountability, and better stock assessment data are the issues rec anglers should be concentrating on, not bashing a guy who made a risky investment in a risky fishery that is now cashing in on it.


In Texas we have a 365 day season just FYI

And this individual commercial guy is the exact one that filed the lawsuit that completely shut down our season...... His name is on the docket so we have plenty of reason not to like him!! I could care less about the other comms just making a living without throwing everyone else under the bus.


----------



## Kenner21

[email protected] said:


> This thread is priceless. Clamoring on one hand that the Feds underestimate the number of snapper that you catch, and then every other comment is "eff that we fish 365 days a year". Develop a way for the Feds to accurately be able to count your fish as they are able to explicitly count every Comm fish and then you have an argument. Every fish that they catch is counted and re-counted at a minimum of 3 different levels. The feds have the ability to manipulate the unknown recreational catch from various species in a method that fits their agenda. Giving them less flexibility by having an accountable fishery gives them little choice to do what they want with the numbers.
> 
> In terms of hating a guy that has built a business around commercial fishing- especially in terms of the financial outlay for permits, quota, boats, monitoring equipment, etc. , especially one of this size, is an incredibly ballsy investment. Kudos to the guy for doing well. 100% of that $$ generated stays here- from the point of sale down the entire supply chain. It also gives access to a US national resource to people who do not have access to it in the first place.
> 
> Increased accountability, and better stock assessment data are the issues rec anglers should be concentrating on, not bashing a guy who made a risky investment in a risky fishery that is now cashing in on it.


Yes Kudos to the guy who was one of the lead plaintiffs on a lawsuit that annihilated the recreational red snapper season a few years ago. It surprises you he's not well liked by recreational fishermen on a recreational fishing website? As sure as they're recs out in the Gulf breaking the law you can bet they're commercial guys breaking the law as well.

Me personally it takes the fun out of fishing so I don't do it. At the same time it's hard to get mad at guys who just want to catch a few fish for fun when the only people allowed access to the resource are the companies making money off it. The feds don't want accurate data for recs, there isn't any money in it.


----------



## kinja

ccrocker1313 said:


> *My Sales to those Guy's in the Last 15 Yrs I could count on (1) Hand, So "No" that has nothing to do with the way I see this .. *
> *If the CCA was so behind the Rec. Fisherman why don't you hear more from them ? *
> *To date there are more Red Snapper out there then ever, and Who has done more to insure that ? *
> 
> *The Rec Fisherman ? *
> *The Commercial Fisherman ? *
> *The Charter Fleet ?*
> 
> *I know there's a Lot of Great Work done in the Last 4 to 6 years by all Sides.*
> *But (2) Group's have done more to insure we have fish there Livelihood Depends on it ..*
> 
> *I'll talk to anyone any time Please Call 281-787-3783 (c)*
> 
> *It's Getting Better every year out there Stop Fighting and Work together ... *


You are wrong Chris. Flat wrong. 9 days to snapper fish all while your buddies fight any compromise to every day boat owners.


----------



## Bankin' On It

Do the regs also limit Charters for rec fishermen?


----------



## Kenner21

Bankin' On It said:


> Do the regs also limit Charters for rec fishermen?


Last season recs fishing on private boats got a 10 day season. For hire six pack charter companies got 44 days. Also some 17 party boats were gifted year around access to the red snapper fishery using fish tags with some BS pilot program.

Edit: It could be 14 party boats I don't remember.


----------



## Jolly Roger

All the gulf states have proved without a doubt the FED stock assessment and the amount of red snapper the REC fishermen catch per year is wrong. The data the FEDs use is completely wrong, and everyone even the FED themselves know this and have admitted it. Yalls argument that RECs need to me more accountable is complete BS. FEDs do not care, they keep using flawed data and flawed methods ignoring hard facts that prove them wrong.

Hard to fathom that Texas yacht sales is defending big money that has crushed REC fishing seasons. Not just red snapper, but triggers, grouper, AJs, etc... all of it is messed up.

RECs and the Gulf states have proved they can count the fish, gulf states are already doing this. It did not make a difference. It is not gettting better, REC season was 10 days last year and good chance it will be less this year.

You do not have to believe me or anyone else on 2cool. You can watch this video and listen to the foremost experts on the snapper fishery tell you themselves how bad of a job the FEDs are doing

Video on this link


----------



## dinmax82

[email protected] said:


> This thread is priceless. Clamoring on one hand that the Feds underestimate the number of snapper that you catch, and then every other comment is "eff that we fish 365 days a year". Develop a way for the Feds to accurately be able to count your fish as they are able to explicitly count every Comm fish and then you have an argument. Every fish that they catch is counted and re-counted at a minimum of 3 different levels. The feds have the ability to manipulate the unknown recreational catch from various species in a method that fits their agenda. Giving them less flexibility by having an accountable fishery gives them little choice to do what they want with the numbers.
> 
> In terms of hating a guy that has built a business around commercial fishing- especially in terms of the financial outlay for permits, quota, boats, monitoring equipment, etc. , especially one of this size, is an incredibly ballsy investment. Kudos to the guy for doing well. 100% of that $$ generated stays here- from the point of sale down the entire supply chain. It also gives access to a US national resource to people who do not have access to it in the first place.
> 
> Increased accountability, and better stock assessment data are the issues rec anglers should be concentrating on, not bashing a guy who made a risky investment in a risky fishery that is now cashing in on it.


I have used your reels in the past and WAS considering one but I guess I can't use it as you plan to crush my ability to fish as a rec fisherman.

Frigging genius.


----------



## texasblue

[email protected] said:


> This thread is priceless. Clamoring on one hand that the Feds underestimate the number of snapper that you catch, and then every other comment is "eff that we fish 365 days a year". Develop a way for the Feds to accurately be able to count your fish as they are able to explicitly count every Comm fish and then you have an argument. Every fish that they catch is counted and re-counted at a minimum of 3 different levels. The feds have the ability to manipulate the unknown recreational catch from various species in a method that fits their agenda. Giving them less flexibility by having an accountable fishery gives them little choice to do what they want with the numbers.
> 
> In terms of hating a guy that has built a business around commercial fishing- especially in terms of the financial outlay for permits, quota, boats, monitoring equipment, etc. , especially one of this size, is an incredibly ballsy investment. Kudos to the guy for doing well. 100% of that $$ generated stays here- from the point of sale down the entire supply chain. It also gives access to a US national resource to people who do not have access to it in the first place.
> 
> Increased accountability, and better stock assessment data are the issues rec anglers should be concentrating on, not bashing a guy who made a risky investment in a risky fishery that is now cashing in on it.


*Read this and see if it takes a different slant for you:

http://us11.campaign-archive2.com/?u=0699d5a5f2c85fc49db8ffd42&id=f897836895&e=e98de56675*


----------



## Limit up

Watched the show. It's typical reality drama and bs. Don't mind commercial guys making a living. I got to make one to, but the fact that somehow there's a shortage of snapper is absolutely crazy. They told on themselves when for tv drama they had to go catch 15000 pounds and only had like 2 days to do it. What do you know all they had to do is go to one spot start dropping lines and bingo. No driving around looking from spot to spot. Snapper are everywhere. How anyone thinks recs can catch as many fish with a daily limit of 2 each and only a nine day season as the commercial guys do when they fish all year is absolutely nuts. Just another example of big money taking from the little man using the gov as a facilitator. It happens everywhere. need to get a recreational guy in the right office of the gulf counsel. Only way it's ever going to change. Crabtree has been there since 2003 or so. It's time for him to go. Sorry about the rant.


----------



## Jolly Roger

Limit up said:


> Watched the show. It's typical reality drama and bs. Don't mind commercial guys making a living. I got to make one to, but the fact that somehow there's a shortage of snapper is absolutely crazy. They told on themselves when for tv drama they had to go catch 15000 pounds and only had like 2 days to do it. What do you know all they had to do is go to one spot start dropping lines and bingo. No driving around looking from spot to spot. Snapper are everywhere. How anyone thinks recs can catch as many fish with a daily limit of 2 each and only a nine day season as the commercial guys do when they fish all year is absolutely nuts. Just another example of big money taking from the little man using the gov as a facilitator. It happens everywhere. need to get a recreational guy in the right office of the gulf counsel. Only way it's ever going to change. Crabtree has been there since 2003 or so. It's time for him to go. Sorry about the rant.


There are people in office fighting for REC anglers, there is a bill in Congress right now Bill H.R.3094 that would give control of the red snapper to the gulf states. Problem is REC were foolish and tried to work with the FEDs but the whole time the game was stacked against us. the FEDs do not care about good data, they overestimate the REC catch and they under estimate the population of Red Snapper on purpose. The FEDs did not count Red Snapper on reefs....... they did a stock assessment on reef fish but did not count any fish on reefs. Think about that for a second...

Here is an example of an elected official working to help the REC fishermen, and all the people in this thread defending the current management need to read this also

http://garretgraves.house.gov/media-center/blog-posts/all-men-are-equal-fish

"The agency charged with managing our national fishery, the National Marine Fisheries Service, conducted a study on the health of red snapper fish stocks in the Gulf of Mexico. Youâ€™ll be shocked to learn that federal governmentâ€™s methodology and results were grossly inadequate. Their analysis failed to include reef areas â€" the actual habitat of red snapper, a reef fish. Think about that. Itâ€™s like looking for polar bears in Louisiana, finding none, and declaring the population to be at risk of extinction."


----------



## [email protected]

dinmax82 said:


> I have used your reels in the past and WAS considering one but I guess I can't use it as you plan to crush my ability to fish as a rec fisherman.
> 
> Frigging genius.


I'm not out to crush anyone's ability to fish- commercially or recreationally as I have customers on both sides of the aisle. Both buy our equipment because it is simply the best stuff available. What I meant is the whole recreational vs. commercial argument plays into the anti-fishing community perfectly. That's the main point I want to make. I've got a lot of experience with fisheries management with HMS fisheries more so than the regional councils, but I know the level of BS is similar in both situations. NOAA is the most broken agency in the federal government, and we've dealt with an administration over the last 8 years that refuses to fire anyone.


----------



## Jolly Roger

[email protected] said:


> I'm not out to crush anyone's ability to fish- commercially or recreationally as I have customers on both sides of the aisle. Both buy our equipment because it is simply the best stuff available. What I meant is the whole recreational vs. commercial argument plays into the anti-fishing community perfectly. That's the main point I want to make. I've got a lot of experience with fisheries management with HMS fisheries more so than the regional councils, but I know the level of BS is similar in both situations. NOAA is the most broken agency in the federal government, and we've dealt with an administration over the last 8 years that refuses to fire anyone.





[email protected] said:


> This thread is priceless. Clamoring on one hand that the Feds underestimate the number of snapper that you catch, and then every other comment is "eff that we fish 365 days a year". Develop a way for the Feds to accurately be able to count your fish as they are able to explicitly count every Comm fish and then you have an argument. Every fish that they catch is counted and re-counted at a minimum of 3 different levels. The feds have the ability to manipulate the unknown recreational catch from various species in a method that fits their agenda. Giving them less flexibility by having an accountable fishery gives them little choice to do what they want with the numbers.
> 
> In terms of hating a guy that has built a business around commercial fishing- especially in terms of the financial outlay for permits, quota, boats, monitoring equipment, etc. , especially one of this size, is an incredibly ballsy investment. Kudos to the guy for doing well. 100% of that $$ generated stays here- from the point of sale down the entire supply chain. It also gives access to a US national resource to people who do not have access to it in the first place.
> 
> Increased accountability, and better stock assessment data are the issues rec anglers should be concentrating on, not bashing a guy who made a risky investment in a risky fishery that is now cashing in on it.


Rec anglers and the Gulf states have better stock assessments, REC anglers have better catch data, this is fact. The FEDs ignore it. You and others are spouting off things RECs fishermen and the gulf sates have already done. Gulf states have already proven the FED overestimate the REC catch, the gulf states and everyone else has already proven that the stock assessment the FEDs use is wrong. Yet nothing changes, commercial captains keep suing and fighting to keep REC season short. The commercial guy in question fights ever advancement REC anglers try to make, everything.

Video of the head of NOAA getting grilled because his stock assessment of red sanpper is so horrible.




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1529837947272546


----------



## kwikool

One other thing that i think is noteworthy is that the GULF FISHERY MC looks at the GULF as a whole... and basically have a one size fits all standard. snapper in federal waters off of Texas is differently fished and have different populations than lets say Fla. Having different regs for different areas seems to me to be a better solution than what is currently in place.


----------



## Cabollero

Jolly Roger said:


> Rec anglers and the Gulf states have better stock assessments, REC anglers have better catch data, this is fact. The FEDs ignore it. You and others are spouting off things RECs fishermen and the gulf sates have already done. Gulf states have already proven the FED overestimate the REC catch, the gulf states and everyone else has already proven that the stock assessment the FEDs use is wrong. Yet nothing changes, commercial captains keep suing and fighting to keep REC season short. The commercial guy in question fights ever advancement REC anglers try to make, everything.
> 
> Video of the head of NOAA getting grilled because his stock assessment of red sanpper is so horrible.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1529837947272546


Bingo! The wolves are guarding then henhouse here. If the comms had won the redfish battle the only place my kids would have ever seen one is in a friggin book!


----------



## TxFig

[email protected] said:


> This thread is priceless. Clamoring on one hand that the Feds underestimate the number of snapper that you catch, and then every other comment is "eff that we fish 365 days a year". Develop a way for the Feds to accurately be able to count your fish as they are able to explicitly count every Comm fish and then you have an argument. _Every fish that they catch is counted and re-counted at a minimum of 3 different levels_.


If you believe this, you are delusional.



> In terms of hating a guy that has built a business around commercial fishing- especially in terms of the financial outlay for permits, quota, boats, monitoring equipment, etc. , especially one of this size, is an incredibly ballsy investment.


We don't hate him because he's catching tons of fish.

We hate him because he is part (a HUGE part) of the group that is screwing over the REC fisherman's ability to catch those same fish.

I couldn't care less if he were to pull in 10 trillion pounds of snapper in a year (if the population can support it). But when he starts F'ing with my ability to catch enough fish for a single meal for my family - that makes me want to burn his boats to the water line.


----------



## ftw66

TxFig said:


> If you believe this, you are delusional.
> 
> We don't hate him because he's catching tons of fish.
> 
> We hate him because he is part (a HUGE part) of the group that is screwing over the REC fisherman's ability to catch those same fish.
> 
> I couldn't care less if he were to pull in 10 trillion pounds of snapper in a year (if the population can support it). But when he starts F'ing with my ability to catch enough fish for a single meal for my family - that makes me want to burn his boats to the water line.


To the point, and very well said indeed.


----------



## ftw66

[email protected] said:


> I'm not out to crush anyone's ability to fish- commercially or recreationally as I have customers on both sides of the aisle. Both buy our equipment because it is simply the best stuff available. What I meant is the whole recreational vs. commercial argument plays into the anti-fishing community perfectly. That's the main point I want to make. I've got a lot of experience with fisheries management with HMS fisheries more so than the regional councils, but I know the level of BS is similar in both situations. NOAA is the most broken agency in the federal government, and we've dealt with an administration over the last 8 years that refuses to fire anyone.


May be a long shot here, but I would think your bread is buttered a tad more from the commercial side.


----------



## ftw66

[email protected] said:


> This thread is priceless. Clamoring on one hand that the Feds underestimate the number of snapper that you catch, and then every other comment is "eff that we fish 365 days a year". Develop a way for the Feds to accurately be able to count your fish as they are able to explicitly count every Comm fish and then you have an argument. Every fish that they catch is counted and re-counted at a minimum of 3 different levels. The feds have the ability to manipulate the unknown recreational catch from various species in a method that fits their agenda. Giving them less flexibility by having an accountable fishery gives them little choice to do what they want with the numbers.
> 
> In terms of hating a guy that has built a business around commercial fishing- especially in terms of the financial outlay for permits, quota, boats, monitoring equipment, etc. , especially one of this size, is an incredibly ballsy investment. Kudos to the guy for doing well. 100% of that $$ generated stays here- from the point of sale down the entire supply chain. It also gives access to a US national resource to people who do not have access to it in the first place.
> 
> Increased accountability, and better stock assessment data are the issues rec anglers should be concentrating on, not bashing a guy who made a risky investment in a risky fishery that is now cashing in on it.


Aren't you the long-liners one stop shop?


----------



## ftw66

ccrocker1313 said:


> *My Sales to those Guy's in the Last 15 Yrs I could count on (1) Hand, So "No" that has nothing to do with the way I see this .. *
> *If the CCA was so behind the Rec. Fisherman why don't you hear more from them ? *
> *To date there are more Red Snapper out there then ever, and Who has done more to insure that ? *
> 
> *The Rec Fisherman ? *
> *The Commercial Fisherman ? *
> *The Charter Fleet ?*
> 
> *I know there's a Lot of Great Work done in the Last 4 to 6 years by all Sides.*
> *But (2) Group's have done more to insure we have fish for the Future there Livelihood Depends on it ..*
> 
> *I'll talk to anyone any time Please Call 281-787-3783 (c)*
> 
> *It's Getting Better every year out there Stop Fighting and Work together ... *


I have absolutely no need to talk to you, it's not hard to figure out where your allegiance stands. You are just like the government we have in place, you alone yourself to where the money is coming from, to the ruin of us all.


----------



## ccrocker1313

Your Not Even Close to being Right ...
I stand for myself 1st ...
I'm probably most affected by fishing limits,
When fishing is going well sales are when the economy is well so are sales.
I'm affected by almost everything in one form or another ..
And opinions are taken to Heart I hear all sides and have to support both in one way or another ...
There's no denying the fishery is stronger than ever ..



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Flight Cancelled

ccrocker1313 said:


> Your Not Even Close to being Right ...
> I stand for myself 1st ...
> I'm probably most affected by fishing limits,
> When fishing is going well sales are when the economy is well so are sales.
> I'm affected by almost everything in one form or another ..
> And opinions are taken to Heart I hear all sides and have to support both in one way or another ...
> There's no denying the fishery is stronger than ever ..
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


H-E-L-L ya the **** is strong recs have been cut out of the pie for the last what 6years and the last 3 significantly. Talked to a lot of recs that didn't even get a chance to snapper fish last year :headknock


----------



## Jolly Roger

ccrocker1313 said:


> There's no denying the fishery is stronger than ever ..


and REC fishermen will get a 10 day or less Red Snapper season with the fishery stronger then ever

but commercial fishermen can kill them whenever they want to... and the commercial sector will keep fighting any gains RECs might get


----------



## DirtKat

^^^^I don't think you are making very good sales connections.......


----------



## saltaholic

So is the CFA in with the comms and the lawsuits too? Seems like there is allot of pictures of them together especially with greg Abbott


----------



## jeffsfishin

saltaholic said:


> So is the CFA in with the comms and the lawsuits too? Seems like there is allot of pictures of them together especially with greg Abbott


These guy's have outplayed the CCA so much it is sad, plus they have Charter for hire owners on the Gulf Council voting on behalf of all recreational fishermen. We might as well take advantage of our ability to bring our 4 "STATE" Red snapper per person back to the Dock.


----------



## Snookered

texasblue said:


> *Read this and see if it takes a different slant for you:
> 
> http://us11.campaign-archive2.com/?u=0699d5a5f2c85fc49db8ffd42&id=f897836895&e=e98de56675*http://us11.campaign-archive2.com/?u=0699d5a5f2c85fc49db8ffd42&id=f897836895&e=e98de56675


 nice read and a great primer for those who are uneducated in the high points of snapper management...thanks for posting texasblue
snookered


----------



## Kingofsabine18

I'll put this bluntly F*** the Buddy No Goodon and F*** the crooked federal regulations.


----------



## Pecos

ccrocker1313 said:


> Whambulance !!!!
> If you've ever ordered Red Snapper in a restaurant or Seafood house, how do you think it got there ??
> 
> And if you have **** !!!!
> 
> Did anyone hear ???
> 
> Develop a accountable fishery mgt plan and then fish year round.
> 
> Stop believing CCAs Bullshirt !!!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 Huh?


----------



## Gap

98 years ago we decided that the public resource, our migratory birds, could never be sold for a profit. They have since flourished. 

9 years ago an executive order by GW Bush took Redfish off the commercial table. The reality is non-hunting Americans still get all the duck they want at the grocery store or restaurants (not much anymore) and Blackened Redfish was replaced with other more sustainable options like farm raised Redfish and Tilapia. Redfish populations are strong throughout the coast.

While I'm sure all these guys are nice, hard working folks, I can't agree with them using a public resource to make their living at the expense of others.


----------



## saltaholic

Gap said:


> 98 years ago we decided that the public resource, our migratory birds, could never be sold for a profit. They have since flourished.
> 
> 9 years ago an executive order by GW Bush took Redfish off the commercial table. The reality is non-hunting Americans still get all the duck they want at the grocery store or restaurants (not much anymore) and Blackened Redfish was replaced with other more sustainable options like farm raised Redfish and Tilapia. Redfish populations are strong throughout the coast.
> 
> While I'm sure all these guys are nice, hard working folks, I can't agree with them using a public resource to make their living at the expense of others.


X2 great post


----------



## roundman

saltaholic said:


> X2 great post


x3:clover:


----------



## cuzn dave

Gap said:


> 98 years ago we decided that the public resource, our migratory birds, could never be sold for a profit. They have since flourished.
> 
> 9 years ago an executive order by GW Bush took Redfish off the commercial table. The reality is non-hunting Americans still get all the duck they want at the grocery store or restaurants (not much anymore) and Blackened Redfish was replaced with other more sustainable options like farm raised Redfish and Tilapia. Redfish populations are strong throughout the coast.
> 
> While I'm sure all these guys are nice, hard working folks, I can't agree with them using a public resource to make their living at the expense of others.


Amen to that...


----------



## hilton

saltaholic said:


> So is the CFA in with the comms and the lawsuits too? Seems like there is allot of pictures of them together especially with greg Abbott


Yessir!

There is really no difference between The Charter Fisherman's Association (CFA) and the comms (Gulf of Mexico Reef Fish Shareholders Alliance, Gulf Fishermens Association), The Gulf Seafood Institute, etc. etc. - they are ALL EDF-funded/created front groups designed to give the illusion that there is Gulf-wide support for their scam called Catch Shares. There isn't.

They have ALL sold their souls to The Environmental Defense Fund, ALL in the name of greed and profit at OUR expense.


----------



## saltaholic

^^^ that explains allot especially some people's opinions on the topic, there is a list of all the CFA businesses and capts on the CFA website.


----------



## trapper67

The show makes me sick. Here is what they have brought to the dock so far:
Show #1....15,000 lb snapper caught in 36 hrs
Show #2....14'000 lb snapper
11,000 lb snapper that came in "white" so it was sold for dog food for
$4.50/lb
13,000 lb grouper


----------



## DEXTER

trapper67 said:


> The show makes me sick. Here is what they have brought to the dock so far:
> Show #1....15,000 lb snapper caught in 36 hrs
> Show #2....14'000 lb snapper
> 11,000 lb snapper that came in "white" so it was sold for dog food for
> $4.50/lb
> 13,000 lb grouper


Say what. That is wanton waste of a public resource


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## trapper67

You can buy two 6-8oz snap fillets on their website for $27.00 plus shipping.............but the grouper , tile and red fish cost more....


----------



## Momma's Worry

*Snapper Wars*

should be some backlash over 11K lb white snapper sold for dog food ......if that is actually true ........


----------



## trapper67

*white snapper*



Momma's Worry said:


> should be some backlash over 11K lb white snapper sold for dog food ......if that is actually true ........


 the red snapper was " white" when it came in to the dock because it was left out on the deck too long or not iced down good..............


----------



## saltaholic

So we can't even fish for snapper but they can let 1000's of pounds rot and still sell it legally for dog food???? 

Screw this


----------



## Momma's Worry

*Snapper Wars*

11K @ 4.50 =$49500.00 comm VS rec

that's roughly 230 rec boats with four on board each ...which is more valuable(in expenditures) to the overall economy .......


----------



## trapper67

Momma's Worry said:


> 11K @ 4.50 =$49500.00 comm VS rec
> 
> that's roughly 230 rec boats with four on board each ...which is more valuable(in expenditures) to the overall economy .......


 Guindon has 25% of the snapper quota (1,000,000 lb) pass thru his shop each year.


----------



## Empty Pockets CC

Something stinks to high heaven...


----------



## hilton

trapper67 said:


> Guindon has 25% of the snapper quota (1,000,000 lb) pass thru his shop each year.


He's also receiving $16/pound (whole weight) for snapper caught on Hickman's/Cantrell's "Commercial Catch Share Fishing Experience". Strange, since customers can go into Guindon's Katie's Seafood house today and buy fresh red snapper for $8/pound caught by other commercial fishermen.

Why the difference in price? _*Because it's a charter but they can't call it a "charter"*_, even though they bait their customer's hook just like a "charter".

Something just ain't right with that whole crowd.


----------



## Slack

If I recall correctly on the first showing 
The Owner of this Business stated that the 15,000 lbs of snapper he had to catch in less than 36 hours equated to $70,000.00 out of his pocket ( not a bad 1.5 days for three individuals ) as "he had these sold". If this is correct that is $4.66 per lb which would reflect his price to wholesale Red Snapper to the eating public or to cat food is approx the same ..$4.66 vs $4.50 per lb. From my perspective seems similar to the Commercial slaughter of Buffalo from our American History.


----------



## Gethookedadventures

This is the way I feel.

Actually have a shirt that says F everything and become a pirate but I put the G rated version on here

.


----------



## Drifter-3

*???*



donf said:


> Great
> A show on the lead plaintiff who destroys our snapper season.


What snapper season. Every time I watch that show. I get more and more ****** that WE have not unified as a formidable group to overcome this atrocity we are inn now. We ars recreational fishermen are our own worst enemies. While the politicians and commercial fishing industry laugh all the way to the bank. We were sold a bill of goods. By them stating these restrictions we for the future of generations to come. That us BS and you all know it. That is my opinion and I stand by it. :texasflag


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## Fired Up

Too bad they didn't get run over by the ship..


----------



## HiggsBoson

Jolly Roger said:


> as much as I dislike how the commercial and CFA have screwed over REC fishermen for there own personal gains. Simple truth is REC fishermen can not fight all of them, we will have to compromise if we ever expect to gain anything.
> 
> leave Commercial fishing as it is, and work out a deal with the charter fleet to there advantage is the only way RECs will see state control passed in Bill H.R.3094. Some commercial and charter captains will fight state control no matter what, but there are a LOT of commercial fishermen and charter captains that do not like the current system and have been screwed over that would support state control.
> 
> Us RECs are going to have to work together with them or going to be stuck with FED control of our fishery, and it will only get worst.


That is the first rational post I have ever seen from you. There is hope for you yet.


----------



## HiggsBoson

Does anyone know if this show is a one time deal or they are going to make a second 'season' for it? If they do, it might be worthwhile to try and find out when they are filming to educate the Nat Geo film crew on how this jackleg has gamed the system to his own benefit.


----------



## ding-a-ling

It's interesting to watch the hypocrisy of someone talking so much about truly caring for a resource (that the public owns) and spending quality time with their family on the water. 

While during the same show, being elated at selling 11,000 substandard lbs of that treasured resource to be used for pet food and essentially denying several hundred thousand rec's the same quality time with their kids when it comes to keeping snapper. 

For some it's all about money and greed. It always has been about money and greed and I am afraid it always will be about money and greed.


----------



## trapper67

Well, episode #3 show is over and the Blackjack has caught over 26,000 lb of grouper in 2 shows 100 mi south of Galveston. Garden Banks and East/West Butterfly seem to be the spots mentioned. I would guess 80 % yellow edge 20 % snowy. GRRRRRRRRR


----------



## CBBSteve

We do realize that EVERYTHING about this show is scripted. Don't we?


----------



## Chase This!

Snowy aka juvi Warsaw.


----------



## hillbilly deluxe

CBBSteve said:


> We do realize that EVERYTHING about this show is scripted. Don't we?


Ya it showed they where in a barge channel while they where grouper fishing. FUNNY and SICK all at the same time to bad there boats aren't a reef!!!!!


----------



## J_Philla

i know that a lot of you guys are butt hurt over this show, but i know that the blackjack has towed in a couple of rec. boats in that otherwise would have been stuck offshore waiting for some help (I remember reading it on here). so go ahead and bash the sector of fishermen that are out here making a living, so when ya'll break down they can tow your asses in.


----------



## saltaholic

J_Philla said:


> i know that a lot of you guys are butt hurt over this show, but i know that the blackjack has towed in a couple of rec. boats in that otherwise would have been stuck offshore waiting for some help (I remember reading it on here). so go ahead and bash the sector of fishermen that are out here making a living, so when ya'll break down they can tow your asses in.


So we should be be totally ok with the lawsuit they filed that took our season away just because they helped tow a few boats in? No sir- it's a law to help stranded boaters, you should know that.

These guys single handedly screwed the recs so they will always be hated and so will everyone that supports and defends them!!!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## dbarham

That's what sea tow is for I would rather take my family to catch a few snapper


----------



## Gap

Good for them. I'm sure they are nice folks. Of course, that's not what this is about. It's about them getting to fish and us not getting to fish. One man's share of a public resource should not be greater than another's.


----------



## chuck richey

J_Philla said:


> i know that a lot of you guys are butt hurt over this show, but i know that the blackjack has towed in a couple of rec. boats in that otherwise would have been stuck offshore waiting for some help (I remember reading it on here). so go ahead and bash the sector of fishermen that are out here making a living, so when ya'll break down they can tow your asses in.


 That has to be the dumbest thing I've read on here in a while.


----------



## Momma's Worry

trapper67 said:


> Well, episode #3 show is over and the Blackjack has caught over 26,000 lb of grouper in 2 shows 100 mi south of Galveston. Garden Banks and East/West Butterfly seem to be the spots mentioned. I would guess 80 % yellow edge 20 % snowy. GRRRRRRRRR


wonder how much Rec's would have spent(spread the wealth) to catch that 26K lbs of grouper vs the comm side to the end consumer ?


----------



## jewfish

So, Catch shares purchased by Well Known Charter Captain(s) in Freeport, are now able to take "customers" out ,but cant keep the fish. They are brought to Katies,
Say this Galveston fish House places an "order" for 400 lbs. of snapper, This "charter" turned "commercial" can take the SAME people out to help him make his quota to fill this "order". Supposedly, able to keep any by-catch, (other than the snapper).
So my question on this is
" Who would pay to go and NOT be able to keep their catch?"
Not I
Can the same commercial fisheman also have a reef or charter permit during rec season?
I can see wanting to make a living, but I see this as a racket, if I've ever seen one


----------



## ftw66

J_Philla said:


> i know that a lot of you guys are butt hurt over this show, but i know that the blackjack has towed in a couple of rec. boats in that otherwise would have been stuck offshore waiting for some help (I remember reading it on here). so go ahead and bash the sector of fishermen that are out here making a living, so when ya'll break down they can tow your asses in.


You sir, are a very special kind of stupid.


----------



## Momma's Worry

*BFTexas*

funny Buddy had to take his oldest out on his super fine CC just to show him how snapper were caught(he didn't know?) so the son could appreciate just what the catchers were subject to(he didn't know?) .....his reply was "can we go now"?.........LOL


----------



## trapper67

Momma's Worry said:


> funny Buddy had to take his oldest out on his super fine CC just to show him how snapper were caught(he didn't know?) so the son could appreciate just what the catchers were subject to(he didn't know?) .....his reply was "can we go now"?.........LOL


did you notice that they put that fish on ice? you could hear the rig horn in the background. wonder if it was caught in season????


----------



## Trouthappy

Buddy Guindon is relentless. I used to watch him unload at Clark's in POC in about 1992-93 during winter. Back then they had 1,000 pound trip limits, so every day he sailed out, even in northers with 12 foot seas, and was back each morning with another 1,000 pounds. He said deep water was closer off POC, that's why he moved the boat there for the winter. He said he wouldn't let his crewmen off the dock, they might run off. Wouldn't even let them get a burger in town. Some of them were sick with flu. Talk about a miserable life...Back then he didn't have that white beard.


----------



## Cabollero

^? Did you not peruse the 150 some odd posts of somewhat spirited banter between your two contributions to the thread???


----------



## Lostinpecos

Doesn't wear a seat belt while driving on last episode... Nice....
Anyways I wonder how much they paid for 1 million catch shares for their share of Red Snapper? They are getting $8.50/lb for red snapper and who knows what else, that seems unethical.


----------



## Snookered

jewfish said:


> Can the same commercial fisheman also have a reef or charter permit during rec season?
> I can see wanting to make a living, but I see this as a racket, if I've ever seen one


 yup, dual permitted captains, and there's a few of them.....a couple even lurk on here, right boys?

yup, it's a racket, but of course those captains don't see it as that, because it's currently legal....doesn't mean it's ethical though....
snookered


----------



## Chase This!

He did say he bought the 1M pounds of quota. Anyone know how much that would cost?


----------



## trapper67

Chase This! said:


> He did say he bought the 1M pounds of quota. Anyone know how much that would cost?


40,000 lb a week............


----------



## Chase This!

19,230 per week.


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## trapper67

I meant instead of 30,000 lb a week he got to add 10,000 lb more to his quota. now it is 40,000 lb a week


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## Lostinpecos

I saw 8.50/lb on show but on Katie seafood website it's 10lb min at $135. So 13.50/lb whole RS fish


----------



## My Little Big boat

He said because of the conservation efferts that there quota was increased.... I believe he said 30% increase


----------



## Lostinpecos

I think Chase This meant how much it cost Buddy to buy a 1 million lb quota


----------



## Chase This!

Lostinpecos said:


> I think Chase This meant how much it cost Buddy to buy a 1 million lb quota


This is my question.


----------



## Ernest

Smaller allocations of quota for red snapper are offered around $2.75 to about $3.75 per pound for an annual lease recently. Meaning, the purchaser/lessor gets those pounds for a single year. This is for smaller quota allocations, in the 1500 to 3500 Lb. range. That's asking price. Round numbers for discussion purposes. 

But, it varies from year to year based, in part, on things like the forecast for dock price of snapper and fuel prices. Discounts can also be had for permanent purchases instead of lease, depending on the the parties' forecast of the years remaining with this system.


----------



## Steven H

Been following this one. Honestly show is borderline entertaining as it is painful to see the wholesale slaughter of these fish while the recreational fisherman only get to keep very few and can only do it for a VERY limited time. I tell you this, seems like a typical first generation makes it ( Buddy) 2nd generation breaks it. His son that runs the operation clearly does not have his heart in it.... " can we go home now?" on that one episode when he went out with Buddy. Seems to me like his mind was somewhere else and always is. Hans seems like a real fisherman, but he will be working for someone else soon as his Dad/brother **** him off enough another same movie/same ending deal IMO. When Buddy passes on, they will sell out, spend the money in 2-3 years then be selling used cars and boudain somewhere. My .02


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## Momma's Worry

*Snapper Wars*



Steven H said:


> Been following this one. Honestly show is borderline entertaining as it is painful to see the wholesale slaughter of these fish while the recreational fisherman only get to keep very few and can only do it for a VERY limited time. I tell you this, seems like a typical first generation makes it ( Buddy) 2nd generation breaks it. His son that runs the operation clearly does not have his heart in it.... " can we go home now?" on that one episode when he went out with Buddy. Seems to me like his mind was somewhere else and always is. Hans seems like a real fisherman, but he will be working for someone else soon as his Dad/brother **** him off enough another same movie/same ending deal IMO. When Buddy passes on, they will sell out, spend the money in 2-3 years then be selling used cars and boudain somewhere. My .02


next episode should get some attention ....Buddy goes to Austin


----------



## Momma's Worry

saw those prices down at Katie's seafood ....can't see them retailing much at $13 to $27 per pound.....


----------



## roundman

i hear episode 8 they supposedly jump into a contender to try to go undercover as recs. trying to catch recs. fishing for " their " fish


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## JKD

roundman said:


> i hear episode 8 they supposedly jump into a contender to try to go undercover as recs. trying to catch recs. fishing for " their " fish


Not only do they get to buy new laws, they also think they are the law! This is getting way too deep.


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## roundman

as far as owning quota i think the price if someone would sell you some is between 35.00- 50.00 a lb for red snapper


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## cg_wilson2003

roundman said:


> i hear episode 8 they supposedly jump into a contender to try to go undercover as recs. trying to catch recs. fishing for " their " fish


Thought you were kidding but episode 5 airing 3/2 it says "buddy goes after recreational fisherman who are catching snapper out of season"


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## ftw66

cg_wilson2003 said:


> Thought you were kidding but episode 5 airing 3/2 it says "buddy goes after recreational fisherman who are catching snapper out of season"


You had to know that he would use his show as a platform to paint him and his constituents as the "saviors" of the "endangered" red snapper. I mean, after all, those are "his" fish.


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## gethookedadventures01

cg_wilson2003 said:


> Thought you were kidding but episode 5 airing 3/2 it says "buddy goes after recreational fisherman who are catching snapper out of season"


The Feds should be going after him for wanton waste!


----------



## roundman

ftw66 said:


> You had to know that he would use his show as a platform to paint him and his constituents as the "saviors" of the "endangered" red snapper. I mean, after all, those are "his" fish.


saviors for " sustainability " and dont forget its also " sushi grade "


----------



## Momma's Worry

*Snapper Wars*

has our Governor Abbot been enlightened(brought up to speed) about Snapper Wars yet?...noticed Buddy had a photo op with him which he has used much to his favor....


----------



## Snookered

Momma's Worry said:


> has our Governor Abbot been enlightened(brought up to speed) about Snapper Wars yet?...noticed Buddy had a photo op with him which he has used much to his favor....


 he's been enlightened to Buddy's side of it, sure....don't know about the other side....
snookered


----------



## Lat22

I'm just a dumb inshore guy, but I'm very impressed that everything they catch is the targeted species and perfect market size. :rotfl:


----------



## roundman

doesnt commercials size red snapper start at 13 inchers ??


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## saltaholic

Can someone please post up a list of all the businesses associated with this "share the gulf" and CFA garbage? We need to boycott all parties involved


----------



## Load&Go

This makes me sick to my stomach 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## roundman

cg_wilson2003 said:


> Thought you were kidding but episode 5 airing 3/2 it says "buddy goes after recreational fisherman who are catching snapper out of season"


*Storyline*

When Nick learns that he is 10K pounds short on a Snapper order, he turns to Hans and Kenny for help. Kenny has been Katie's go to guy for years, and Hans is the cocky up and coming fisherman in the industry. The two decide to split the order, and settle the score, by seeing who can catch 5K pounds of Snapper first. Meanwhile, Buddy is involved in his own battle. There are fishermen in the Gulf of Mexico illegally catching Snapper, and Buddy takes it upon himself to find out who is behind this. Buddy brings along his father Greg and his son Chris as decoys. Ricky has been working hard on Katie's online business, but when the shipping boxes fail to keep the fish cold, he must come up a solution fast.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt5449278/?ref_=ttep_ep5


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## saltaholic

It's all scripted anyways straight garbage- great attempt for them to act like they are protecting the resource by chasing poachers. 

Boycott


----------



## JKD

roundman said:


> *Storyline*
> 
> When Nick learns that he is 10K pounds short on a Snapper order, he turns to Hans and Kenny for help. Kenny has been Katie's go to guy for years, and Hans is the cocky up and coming fisherman in the industry. The two decide to split the order, and settle the score, by seeing who can catch 5K pounds of Snapper first. Meanwhile, Buddy is involved in his own battle. There are fishermen in the Gulf of Mexico illegally catching Snapper, and Buddy takes it upon himself to find out who is behind this. Buddy brings along his father Greg and his son Chris as decoys. Ricky has been working hard on Katie's online business, but when the shipping boxes fail to keep the fish cold, he must come up a solution fast.
> 
> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt5449278/?ref_=ttep_ep5


This kind of arrogance is astounding, and to do it on national TV. I hope he gets everything he has coming to him.


----------



## ding-a-ling

JKD said:


> This kind of arrogance is astounding, and to do it on national TV. I hope he gets everything he has coming to him.


I agree. It's one thing when unscrupulous people in any business screw other people over, collect their check, and quietly go to the bank. It's a whole other thing when you decide to knowingly get up each day, screw people over, go to the bank, then decide a Nat Geo show celebrating how much screwing you can do legally in order to stick people's face into the excrement sandwich. Really low class.


----------



## Trouthappy

Looks like Rick McGaffey is one of the captains on the show? Who'd have thought a guy who had a reputation for never leaving the island would become a TV star. Heh, one time Buddy Shultz flew Rick down to Caracas for some billfishing. Took Rick out to a restaurant, and the guards had machine pistols inside the restaurant. Tough neighborhood. Buddy bumped his head while in the basement bathroom and had a small cut on his head. He came back to the table and told Rick a guard had "roughed him up." Ricky was sweating bullets for the rest of the dinner.


----------



## Kingofsabine18

I'm going to put this in a simple form. We as recreational fisherman who spend the money on fuel, boats, tackle, ice, food, lodging (sometimes) etc.. might get about a week long season to catch 2 snapper a piece IF and that is a HUGE IF the weather even allows it. This group of clowns goes out for a very generous amount of time and catches T H O U S A N D S of pounds every trip of not only snapper but the harder to catch species grouper, etc.. and then portrays the recs as the bad guys in a episode?? How f****** disgusting and insulting to our sport and a absolute slap in the face.


----------



## charlie lawless

*The show is boring anyways*

Should organize a protest outside Katie's when there filming
And give the other side of the story ! Or just cut the ****ers lines offshore when you see them!


----------



## Lostinpecos

I know we, the recreational fisherman, want to complain to each other online about the problems we face with comms and other governing forces. However it feels hopeless to get this resolved. I say go to tags and state control. Just like hunting.


----------



## saltaholic

http://www.saltwatersportsman.com/and-winner-is?src=SOC&dom=fb


----------



## Where'dMyBaitGo

saltaholic said:


> http://www.saltwatersportsman.com/and-winner-is?src=SOC&dom=fb


That is a good write up. Thanks.


----------



## Shuff05

saltaholic said:


> http://www.saltwatersportsman.com/and-winner-is?src=SOC&dom=fb


RECS caught 155 million fish weighing 186 million pounds......1.2 pounds per fish on average. Something smells fishy here.


----------



## iridered2003

charlie lawless said:


> Should organize a protest outside Katie's when there filming
> And give the other side of the story ! Or just cut the ****ers lines offshore when you see them!


little to late for that as filming has been over for months:rotfl:


----------



## Shuff05

iridered2003 said:


> charlie lawless said:
> 
> 
> 
> Should organize a protest outside Katie's when there filming
> And give the other side of the story ! Or just cut the ****ers lines offshore when you see them!
> 
> 
> 
> little to late for that as filming has been over for months
Click to expand...

Sounds like there won't be a second season then. Awesome!!


----------



## BBCAT

Shuff05 said:


> Sounds like there won't be a second season then. Awesome!!


To late for a protest. But a well publicized boycott of Katie's Seafood would help spread the word.


----------



## c1

Momma's Worry said:


> next episode should get some attention ....Buddy goes to Austin


I was down at the GTB last summer fishing a Mako club tournament, so while I was down there I wanted to go see Johnny's new boat Katana, so I did, and started visiting with Johnny about his boat, meanwhile Billy W. and Buddy G. walked up on us and then we started chatting about the Red Snapper issues. It didn't take long for me to form an opinion that Buddy wants the recreational red snapper fisherman gone, and he mentioned he was giving Governor Abbott 5k to help get a commercial fisherman on some advisory board. I understand that commercial fisherman need to make money to take care of their families. But the rec fisherman only get 10 days in federal waters and only 2 fish per person is a joke. If the fishery is that depleted, I vote close the whole fishery down. No commercial fishing, and no rec fishing for Red Snapper until this mess gets worked out fairly. Just my .02


----------



## Momma's Worry

c1 said:


> I was down at the GTB last summer fishing a Mako club tournament, so while I was down there I wanted to go see Johnny's new boat Katana, so I did, and started visiting with Johnny about his boat, meanwhile Billy W. and Buddy G. walked up on us and then we started chatting about the Red Snapper issues. It didn't take long for me to form an opinion that Buddy wants the recreational red snapper fisherman gone, and he mentioned he was giving Governor Abbott 5k to help get a commercial fisherman on some advisory board. I understand that commercial fisherman need to make money to take care of their families. But the rec fisherman only get 10 days in federal waters and only 2 fish per person is a joke. If the fishery is that depleted, I vote close the whole fishery down. No commercial fishing, and no rec fishing for Red Snapper until this mess gets worked out fairly. Just my .02


I do not think Governor Abbot is fully up to speed concerning Snapper Wars....if by chance he is and is taking the comm side via Buddy G, then we should focus some heat on him....only solution is state control of the fishery if the Rec's(me) ever want to go Red Snapper fishing when able(Fed water)......Buddy may regret ever having shown his cards on national TV
when it is used against him ...which I believe it will


----------



## hilton

c1 said:


> I was down at the GTB last summer fishing a Mako club tournament, so while I was down there I wanted to go see Johnny's new boat Katana, so I did, and started visiting with Johnny about his boat, meanwhile Billy W. and Buddy G. walked up on us and then we started chatting about the Red Snapper issues. It didn't take long for me to form an opinion that Buddy wants the recreational red snapper fisherman gone, and he mentioned he was giving Governor Abbott 5k to help get a commercial fisherman on some advisory board. I understand that commercial fisherman need to make money to take care of their families. But the rec fisherman only get 10 days in federal waters and only 2 fish per person is a joke. If the fishery is that depleted, I vote close the whole fishery down. No commercial fishing, and no rec fishing for Red Snapper until this mess gets worked out fairly. Just my .02


You are correct Carl - Guindon is the front man for The Environmental Defense Fund which wants to eliminate recreational fishing as we know it.

He is the front man filing the lawsuits - probably 5 or 6 in the last few years that are designed to eliminate the competition for what he believes to be HIS fish. He's even out on "patrol" disguised as a rec fishermen looking for those bad rec poachers - what an absolute joke.


----------



## roundman

c1 said:


> I was down at the GTB last summer fishing a Mako club tournament, so while I was down there I wanted to go see Johnny's new boat Katana, so I did, and started visiting with Johnny about his boat, meanwhile Billy W. and Buddy G. walked up on us and then we started chatting about the Red Snapper issues. It didn't take long for me to form an opinion that Buddy wants the recreational red snapper fisherman gone, and he mentioned he was giving Governor Abbott 5k to help get a commercial fisherman on some advisory board. I understand that commercial fisherman need to make money to take care of their families. But the rec fisherman only get 10 days in federal waters and only 2 fish per person is a joke. If the fishery is that depleted, I vote close the whole fishery down. No commercial fishing, and no rec fishing for Red Snapper until this mess gets worked out fairly. Just my .02


thats how these things seem to operate , get someone in councils etc to throw votes etc their way and palm $$$ in other hands like edf and other gov. influences , someone told me awhile back bg was trying to push someone in a few years ago that would support them , i think was weber. i dont know how many places/committees him and maybe hickman are on etc but i saw they were on flower gardens http://flowergarden.noaa.gov/image_library/councilimages.html

speaking of the gardens, i think its illegal to anchor there? on one show it showed them losing long line gear and sent a grapling hook down to try to retrieve it ? seem that might tear up the reef a lot?


----------



## saltaholic

Read this

http://www.sportfishingmag.com/great-gulf-red-snapper-train-wreck


----------



## Ernest

Roundman - they were not long lining within the Flower Gardens. Instead, the show merely provided that as a reference to their general location. I'd suggest most of the locations provided on the show (thus far) are either misleading or simply false. 

And no, they were not dragging that grappling hook over the coral cap on/near either of the gardens. In fact, I bet it would be near impossible to recover bottom long line gear with a grappling hook if deployed over coral. The grappling hook would very likely hang up, and you would end up breaking it off after just a minute or two.


----------



## lurker

c1 said:


> I understand that commercial fisherman need to make money to take care of their families.


are the comm fishermen owed a job catching red snapper at the expense of our ability to access the resource as well? are they even owed a job catching red snapper at all?

does anyone (in any industry) work a job that is owed to them?


----------



## ftw66

lurker said:


> are the comm fishermen owed a job catching red snapper at the expense of our ability to access the resource as well? are they even owed a job catching red snapper at all?
> 
> does anyone (in any industry) work a job that is owed to them?


I agree with your views, and would like to subscribe to your newsletter!:fireworks


----------



## hilton

lurker said:


> are the comm fishermen owed a job catching red snapper at the expense of our ability to access the resource as well? are they even owed a job catching red snapper at all?
> 
> does anyone (in any industry) work a job that is owed to them?


Just like any other entitlement program, such as welfare, food stamps, catch shares, etc., they think they are ENTITLED to their free money - they think we OWE them. It's a LARGE reason this country is going down the crapper!


----------



## The Last Mango

hilton said:


> Just like any other entitlement program, such as welfare, food stamps, catch shares, etc., they think they are ENTITLED to their free money - they think we OWE them. It's a LARGE reason this country is going down the crapper!


Get your checkbook out and get you some. Quit crying. I assume next you will start crying about farm subsidies, oh but wait, you don't want to be a farmer.


----------



## Limit up

I agree with you Hilton but the com entitlement to our snapper and other fish resources is straight up bought and paid for. It's the same as with any other big business. It's all about the $. We send jobs to foreign countries at the expense of American workers and hire illegal workers here. All for higher profits with no regard for the well being of our own country. Biggest example is China. We give them all the business and money we can for bigger profits now everyone is concerned about them becoming a super power in the world. We do it to ourselves for money then gripe about the results. We the people elect our representatives that say they are for helping small business and lower taxes and smaller government then turn around and cater to the highest bidder. This show is just another example. Sorry to rant but I know for a fact if we don't point the finger of blame in the right direction we will never fix the problem.


----------



## ToTuff

Get out my checkbook? Why I don't pay to shoot deer or ducks other than a license. Do I need quota for that? Fishing is fishing should not be in the hands of a greedy few. Tight lines


----------



## The Last Mango

ToTuff said:


> Get out my checkbook? Why I don't pay to shoot deer or ducks other than a license. Do I need quota for that? Fishing is fishing should not be in the hands of a greedy few. Tight lines


Do you get to log timber, drill for oil , mine for coal, are these a natural resource?
I'm confused


----------



## ToTuff

Clearly! What does timber and oil have to do with fish and wildlife? Just an outdoorsman who enjoys hunting and fishing. I guess guys like me are lost in the shuffle. I guess kids should not be allowed to catch a perch or shoot a dove.


----------



## Limit up

I can drill for oil or log timber on my own property. We all own the water that the fish are in and should be allowed to catch and eat them. They are a PUBLIC resource not a PRIVATE one


----------



## Chase This!

The Last Mango said:


> Do you get to log timber, drill for oil , mine for coal, are these a natural resource?
> I'm confused


Analogy fail.


----------



## The Last Mango

Chase This! said:


> Analogy fail.


Not, you just have a one sided view


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## sea sick

So mango....dove hunting.....it would be as if the state said you can only shoot dove on the king ranch...that's it.....they paid the state of Texas to harvest birds..but you cant, even tho you own 10k acres north of them. They shoot them year round. BUT you can hunt in the rest of the state for 2 days only. But year round at the KR...you'd agree with that...


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## The Last Mango

Limit up said:


> I can drill for oil or log timber on my own property. We all own the water that the fish are in and should be allowed to catch and eat them. They are a PUBLIC resource not a PRIVATE one


Not a private resource at all , get your checkbook out and buyout Buddy or someone else, and drilling and mining does take place on public land and water


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## The Last Mango

sea sick said:


> So mango....dove hunting.....it would be as if the state said you can only shoot dove on the king ranch...that's it.....they paid the state of Texas to harvest birds..but you cant, even tho you own 10k acres north of them. They shoot them year round. BUT you can hunt in the rest of the state for 2 days only. But year round at the KR...you'd agree with that...


That's the problem with rec. fishermen, they can't agree on anything.
I feel sorry for Ya'll, most of this board is made up of fishermen fighting and arguing about who's right. Just keep 5, catch and release , don't burn the shoreline, that's all you read, complaints!


----------



## sea sick

So you spin it...that's what I thought. It's the same thing..I don't mind commercial fishing or the cattle boats or guides, they all have their place. I for one wouldn't care if buddy and his seafood market went belly up. I hope his kids are the last generation in this scam.


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## Chase This!

Feel sorry for recs? Man, I feel sorry for those forced to commercial fish for a living. Those guys look beat to ****.


----------



## ToTuff

Yep weathered for sure!


----------



## sea sick

Buddy's probably 55..looks 75...every disc blown in his back and knees are bone on bone!! Couldn't pay me enough to do that grunt work..and I use to be one!


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## Limit up

You are correct mining and drilling takes place on public land. Along with cutting timber and such. And do should fishing. I have said it before. There is nothing wrong with making a living but not at my expense.


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## saltaholic

We are not talking about all commercial fishermen!!!! We are talking about the sorry dude himself who filed the lawsuits to protect "his" fish and keep recs off the water!!! 

I could care less about the others who aren't pushing to eliminate recs


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## iridered2003

sea sick said:


> Buddy's probably 55..looks 75...every disc blown in his back and knees are bone on bone!! Couldn't pay me enough to do that grunt work..and I use to be one!


buddys well over 55, more like 65:rotfl:


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## iridered2003

got my vote,lmao


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## hilton

The Last Mango said:


> Get your checkbook out and get you some. Quit crying. I assume next you will start crying about farm subsidies, oh but wait, you don't want to be a farmer.


Pay Guindon for something he doesn't own? He has no right to "own" our Public Trust Resources. The companies that profit from the harvest of our Public Trust Resources such as mining or grazing on public lands, oil leases, etc. are require to pay a royalty for the privilege but not here - the IFQ programs here in the Gulf of Mexico don't pay the nation a penny.

Like I said, you never hear the politicians say that welfare $$ are running out - only social security...taking from hard-working Americans and giving to people who don't even work. A large number of IFQ shareholders don't even go fishing - they just lease out to other Americans what they already own.

Our country is going to hell in a hand basket due to entitlement programs such as welfare, food stamps, and Catch Shares.


----------



## The Last Mango

hilton said:


> Pay Guindon for something he doesn't own? He has no right to "own" our Public Trust Resources. The companies that profit from the harvest of our Public Trust Resources such as mining or grazing on public lands, oil leases, etc. are require to pay a royalty for the privilege but not here - the IFQ programs here in the Gulf of Mexico don't pay the nation a penny.
> 
> Like I said, you never hear the politicians say that welfare $$ are running out - only social security...taking from hard-working Americans and giving to people who don't even work. A large number of IFQ shareholders don't even go fishing - they just lease out to other Americans what they already own.
> 
> Our country is going to hell in a hand basket due to entitlement programs such as welfare, food stamps, and Catch Shares.


I shrimp in Federal waters and don't pay a royalty fee? You can't shrimp in Federal Waters, it's limited entry, why aren't you complaining about that ?


----------



## hookN

hilton said:


> Pay Guindon for something he doesn't own? He has no right to "own" our Public Trust Resources. The companies that profit from the harvest of our Public Trust Resources such as mining or grazing on public lands, oil leases, etc. are require to pay a royalty for the privilege but not here - the IFQ programs here in the Gulf of Mexico don't pay the nation a penny.
> 
> Like I said, you never hear the politicians say that welfare $$ are running out - only social security...taking from hard-working Americans and giving to people who don't even work. A large number of IFQ shareholders don't even go fishing - they just lease out to other Americans what they already own.
> 
> Our country is going to hell in a hand basket due to entitlement programs such as welfare, food stamps, and Catch Shares.


That last sentence sounds like one of the last Trump's preaching :dance:..smells like a Donny T boy here


----------



## Never easy

hookN said:


> That last sentence sounds like one of the last Trump's preaching :dance:..smells like a Donny T boy here


and you are probably a Clinton or sanders supporter so what's your point...

personally they are all idiots and really don't want any of them in power!


----------



## hookN

nope....Bush baby bush LOL


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## saltaholic

The Last Mango said:


> I shrimp in Federal waters and don't pay a royalty fee? You can't shrimp in Federal Waters, it's limited entry, why aren't you complaining about that ?


Nobody wants to take their kids shrimping lol

Shrimping in fed waters requires special boats and gear the average joe doesn't have- snapper fishing doesn't plain and simple

It's simply not right my kids can't keep enough snapper for our dinner while these fools sell thousands of pounds of wasted fish to dog food company's


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## mrsh978

So tonight's episode we(rec fishermen) are being called " outlaws and going to ruin the resource "....so Buddy is going to rescue the industry by video outlaw rec fisherman to save the gulf. What a tool . This is really going off the charts


----------



## Shuff05

They can go out and "fun fish" for 10,000 pounds of red snapper and RECS aren't allowed to keep a single pound. Yet we are the outlaws that are going to over fish and hurt the population. That makes sense. Lol


----------



## bcoastal

What can be done to stop this madness?


----------



## Kenner21

" these recs fishing out of season are going to ruin the resource" cut to bandit reels hauling in 20 snapper at a time.

Odd he didn't mention the length of the BS rec season, anyone know who Billy was talking to on the phone about " busting some ***" I'm guessing his partner in crime on those dude trips.


----------



## msdt-99517

Scott is a local charter captain.


----------



## Kenner21

msdt-99517 said:


> Scott is a local charter captain.


Last name ?


----------



## dbarham

mrsh978 said:


> So tonight's episode we(rec fishermen) are being called " outlaws and going to ruin the resource "....so Buddy is going to rescue the industry by video outlaw rec fisherman to save the gulf. What a tool . This is really going off the charts


X2!!!!


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## Chase This!

"We have a fishery to rebuild". Loads 10,000 pounds. LoL. You can't make this **** up.


----------



## trapper67

*last name*



kenner21 said:


> last name ?


scott hickman


----------



## msdt-99517

Scott Hinkman, Circle H Outfitters


----------



## manintheboat

Yeah, trying rebuild a fishery by catching a rec boat that might ice a hundred pounds or two while he has 2 boats trying to strip 10,000lbs off of a single spot. What an a-hole


----------



## Kenner21

trapper67 said:


> scott hickman


That was my guess , what a DB. Guy makes a living off commercial trips, charter trips and running duck hunts. On TV talking about bustin recs *** for fishing outside of their 10 day joke of a season. Bunch of clowns


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## roundman

msdt-99517 said:


> Scott Hinkman, Circle H Outfitters


https://www.facebook.com/CharterFA/?fref=ts


----------



## c1

The episode is pretty ironic tonight. The recreational red snapper fisherman what to fish and spend time with our families as well, but we only get 10 days out of the year to do that, and that's if we get 10 calm days. Last year was an anomaly, because we had 10 calm days. On average I would guess we get 3 to 5 days a year to take our family to go snapper because of sea conditions and current laws. If this 355 day closure continues, we need to fight to close the snapper fishery down all together once and for all. This fight between commercial and recreational fisherman has been going on for decades, and we are losing big time.


----------



## mrsh978

I wish I were closer to his boats. It would be great to potlick him everyday AND publish his waypoints publicly -


----------



## Flight Cancelled

Just need to get up behind them and video the line of floating by catch and snappers. Then blast it all over the internet, no way recs do more damage to snapper population than commercial fisherman


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## mrsh978

I'd pay some one to do it ....


----------



## trapper67

mrsh978 said:


> I wish I were closer to his boats. It would be great to potlick him everyday AND publish his waypoints publicly -


 They fish alot of the #'s off the TX/LA border out of riks book and I have potlicked them..............


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## saltaholic

So when is this going to pizz recs off enough to do something? A newscast? A 20/20 episode? A protest ? A billboard? Not sure what it will take but heads need to turn as this is a numbers game and public exposure is the first step....

Is there still a RFA or FRA lawsuit active??


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## king_bullet

I knew the shrimping argument was going to come up sense people can profit from other natural resources that are the people's, but shrimpers don't pay royalties same as commercial fishers. 

We can though recreationally shrimp and keep shrimp if we want. We can oyster and keep oysters. We can't keep reef fish in any proportion or season that makes sense compared to commercial fisherman. A 10 day Season is not a season. 

I have watched the show and hope how blatant the exploitation of the endangered red snapper will help our cause. 40,000 lb snapper weeks and 13,000 grouper.


----------



## dbarham

Chase This! said:


> "We have a fishery to rebuild". Loads 10,000 pounds. LoL. You can't make this **** up.


 X2!!!He is talking in circles
Makes us all look bad looking in from the outside world! What a tool this guy is


----------



## mrsh978

The shear tonage being shown on national tv weekly should be evidence to show our great leaders of state - we rec ( outlaw scum according to show ) don't and didn't catch 40,000 lbs the whole season last year


----------



## popeye_iv

Did you watch tonight how we went out looking for "Illegal Recs" and how they are destroying this great natural resource?


----------



## hilton

The Last Mango said:


> I shrimp in Federal waters and don't pay a royalty fee? You can't shrimp in Federal Waters, it's limited entry, why aren't you complaining about that ?


I grew up shrimping and still do.

Are you seriously trying to compare the popularity of recreational fishing and the shrimping industry? If you start filing lawsuit after lawsuit designed to keep recreational fishermen off the water based on bogus propaganda, then yes, I would have a problem with you shrimping.


----------



## Sabine Flounder Pounder

,


saltaholic said:


> So when is this going to pizz recs off enough to do something? A newscast? A 20/20 episode? A protest ? A billboard? Not sure what it will take but heads need to turn as this is a numbers game and public exposure is the first step....
> 
> Is there still a RFA or FRA lawsuit active??


 I think this is a great idea. Get someone capable, person, CCA, RFA or anyone to write a form letter explaining our frustrations with this whole scenerio, including proven over estimation on effort and catch by the NMFS. Write in form letter approach, then post link here,THT, and evrywhere else collecting E signatures then send letter to all the major media outlets. Surely one of them would run with it. After all That's how the EDF front groups got their 1000sof signatures supporting their cause and putting us where we are today.


----------



## Never easy

saltaholic said:


> So when is this going to pizz recs off enough to do something? A newscast? A 20/20 episode? A protest ? *A billboard*? Not sure what it will take but heads need to turn as this is a numbers game and public exposure is the first step....
> 
> Is there still a RFA or FRA lawsuit active??


Do a billboard right over Katie's seafood!


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## The Last Mango

hilton said:


> I grew up shrimping and still do.
> 
> Are you seriously trying to compare the popularity of recreational fishing and the shrimping industry? If you start filing lawsuit after lawsuit designed to keep recreational fishermen off the water based on bogus propaganda, then yes, I would have a problem with you shrimping.


Pick and choose, gotcha


----------



## RSN

Junior game warden doooooouche. This guy thinks he is God of the snapper fishery. His show reminds me of pawnstars. The houses they show them eating dinner at are not even theirs. They also fake having engine problems in one of the episodes, what a joke.


----------



## Chase This!

RSN said:


> Junior game warden doooooouche. This guy thinks he is God of the snapper fishery. His show reminds me of pawnstars. The houses they show them eating dinner at are not even theirs. They also fake having engine problems in one of the episodes, what a joke.


LMAO! Are they rentals homes? That's hilarious.


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## hilton

The Last Mango said:


> Pick and choose, gotcha


Got what?


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## J.Oberholtzer

The one they show in Galveston is not a rental it's owned by another commercial guy. The one they show in matagorda he is half owner of. But Hickman what f------ *****. Let's go tatetail on someone because there catching snapper. I really hope people see that and he falls straight on his face. I know one thing I hope I never see him out there because I will anchor beside him then I hope he says meet me at the doc.


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## Bozo

They should have just used the name of the sister show, Big FIX Alaska, and called this show Big FIX Texas since he has the fix in on gubment officials that divey out quotas.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## saltaholic

J.Oberholtzer said:


> The one they show in Galveston is not a rental it's owned by another commercial guy. The one they show in matagorda he is half owner of. But Hickman what f------ *****. Let's go tatetail on someone because there catching snapper. I really hope people see that and he falls straight on his face. I know one thing I hope I never see him out there because I will anchor beside him then I hope he says meet me at the doc.


And this is why recs should boycott everyone involved with Share the Gulf and the CFA. One glance at the CFA Facebook page and it's clear they are all part of this too.


----------



## hilton

J.Oberholtzer said:


> The one they show in Galveston is not a rental it's owned by another commercial guy. The one they show in matagorda he is half owner of. But Hickman what f------ *****. Let's go tatetail on someone because there catching snapper. I really hope people see that and he falls straight on his face. I know one thing I hope I never see him out there because I will anchor beside him then I hope he says meet me at the doc.


Plenty of douche bags associated with this show.


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## gater

*Trash*



J.Oberholtzer said:


> The one they show in Galveston is not a rental it's owned by another commercial guy. The one they show in matagorda he is half owner of. But Hickman what f------ *****. Let's go tatetail on someone because there catching snapper. I really hope people see that and he falls straight on his face. I know one thing I hope I never see him out there because I will anchor beside him then I hope he says meet me at the doc.


He has already called the game wardens on me, he is bottom of the barell trash.
Greed is instilled in his brain and he is going to do whatever it takes to make a dime and he doesn't care who he screws along the way.


----------



## saltaholic

Somebody needs to post a list of all the captains and businesses associated with this bs..... There has to be one somewhere


----------



## manintheboat

Whether it is Guindon, Hickman or any of these other guys, they are not doing this to save or even help the fishery. Yes, all or most fishermen do want a healthy fishery for years to come to insure their livelihood. But more than anything, what they want is to eliminate competition. By that, I mean they want to go out into the gulf and not have to have any citizens taking up "their" spot or catching "their" fish. Same goes for the CFA traitors.

Yes, list them up and make sure everybody knows who the traitors are. They do not deserve our patronage, money, respect, fellowship or friendship. They are also not even worth having any dialog with. They are our enemies and should be treated as such. 

There are plenty of snapper out there for a robust commercial/for hire/private rec fishery that still insures a healthy fishery for years to come. I want to see a healthy commercial and for hire sector, not a diminished one. I am not against Buddy Guindon catching 10,000lbs of snapper. I would prefer he moves around instead of stripping it off of one piece of structure, but the fishery can handle it. But when he actively fights to keep us off of the water while doing so, then i have a problem with that. But I want to be able to fish too, and more than anything, I will never stop fighting for my son's ability to buy his own boat in the future to access the fishery. Or anybody else. 

Some people just don't want us out there over their structure catching their fish. That is what this is all about. 

And they march under the banner that says "Share the gulf"? right


----------



## LittleBitEasier

Lets stop writing letters! We all need to hook up to our boats drag them to Austin pull up to the capital with 300 or more trucks pulling boats that would cause the media too get involved. We got to make a stink to be noticed letters to a congressmen is not going to change ****. I believe a convoy of trucks pulling boats that are 30' plus coming in from all over the Texas gulf coast would definitely get attention!


----------



## Lostinpecos

Posing as a federal game warden...Nice..Did they find a rec fisherman doing illegal catch? NOPE

Glad his wife told him its not his place do pretend you are a FISH POLICE!

If him, father and kid were out in federal waters using squid as bait, I wonder what they could possibly be catching? 

Yes you can see the Greed! You can also see that RS population is not dwindling to extinction. Its not from RECs, its from COMMERCIAL SIDE. Even if you had 10 possible fishing days, I don't think so. 

its almos. As far as the 36hr competition for 10K of snapper, you can see how little time it took those two commercial boats to complete the task. Sad our gov't sold us out.


----------



## ToddyTrout

Manintheboat, you are VERY wrong on one issue. The commercial guys don't give a rat's butt about how many fish there are and would catch the very last one if they could!!!
I've been working offshore since 1975 and I witnessed first hand when the first commercial boats came to Texas in the late 70's. By about 1983 they had completely wiped out the snapper population and were still over fishing until the remaining snapper were so small that they couldn't sell them.
The same thing happened with the swordfish fishery in the early 80's. And all those commercial fisherman have the same mentality, "if I don't catch em the other com will"!!!!!


----------



## hilton

Hey Toddy - what was the name of the people involved with Guindon's past fisheries transgressions?
How do we get the info on what happened?
Thanks


----------



## manintheboat

ToddyTrout said:


> Manintheboat, you are VERY wrong on one issue. The commercial guys don't give a rat's butt about how many fish there are and would catch the very last one if they could!!!
> I've been working offshore since 1975 and I witnessed first hand when the first commercial boats came to Texas in the late 70's. By about 1983 they had completely wiped out the snapper population and were still over fishing until the remaining snapper were so small that they couldn't sell them.
> The same thing happened with the swordfish fishery in the early 80's. And all those commercial fisherman have the same mentality, "if I don't catch em the other com will"!!!!!


Oh, yeah, you are totally correct on that, but I think that was more a result of the derby system. With the IFQ system, a lot of guys are off of the water and the commercial guys can spread their catch out instead of hammering down the first couple of months of the year. But regardless of their intentions, they are a bunch of world class greedy, dishonest a-holes and should be treated as the scum they are. So we are not too far off.


----------



## Ed

hilton said:


> Pay Guindon for something he doesn't own? He has no right to "own" our Public Trust Resources. The companies that profit from the harvest of our Public Trust Resources such as mining or grazing on public lands, oil leases, etc. are require to pay a royalty for the privilege but not here - the IFQ programs here in the Gulf of Mexico don't pay the nation a penny.
> 
> Like I said, you never hear the politicians say that welfare $$ are running out - only social security...taking from hard-working Americans and giving to people who don't even work. A large number of IFQ shareholders don't even go fishing - they just lease out to other Americans what they already own.
> 
> Our country is going to hell in a hand basket due to entitlement programs such as welfare, food stamps, and Catch Shares.


They pay a 3% cost recovery fee on the ex vessel value of the catch. Ex-vessel value is the price paid for the fish before expenses. So, if an IFQ holder brings in 10,000 lbs and the fish sell for $5.50/lb, they Feds collect 3% of $55,000, or $1,650.


----------



## Talmbout

Blockade Katies Seafood with recreational boats.


----------



## saltaholic

manintheboat said:


> Whether it is Guindon, Hickman or any of these other guys, they are not doing this to save or even help the fishery. Yes, all or most fishermen do want a healthy fishery for years to come to insure their livelihood. But more than anything, what they want is to eliminate competition. By that, I mean they want to go out into the gulf and not have to have any citizens taking up "their" spot or catching "their" fish. Same goes for the CFA traitors.
> 
> Yes, list them up and make sure everybody knows who the traitors are. They do not deserve our patronage, money, respect, fellowship or friendship. They are also not even worth having any dialog with. They are our enemies and should be treated as such.
> 
> There are plenty of snapper out there for a robust commercial/for hire/private rec fishery that still insures a healthy fishery for years to come. I want to see a healthy commercial and for hire sector, not a diminished one. I am not against Buddy Guindon catching 10,000lbs of snapper. I would prefer he moves around instead of stripping it off of one piece of structure, but the fishery can handle it. But when he actively fights to keep us off of the water while doing so, then i have a problem with that. But I want to be able to fish too, and more than anything, I will never stop fighting for my son's ability to buy his own boat in the future to access the fishery. Or anybody else.
> 
> Some people just don't want us out there over their structure catching their fish. That is what this is all about.
> 
> And they march under the banner that says "Share the gulf"? right


Yes I would really like to see who is supporting these guys and CFA, someone has to have a list or link.


----------



## roundman

According to Robert E. Jones, the new Director of the Gulf of Mexico for Environmental Defense Fund, successful management in the commercial sector has played a large role in the rebuilding of historically overfished stocks like red snapper.

Jim Gossen, Chairman of Sysco Louisiana Seafood and a Texas board member of GSI, said that Share the Gulf is needed more than ever because red snapper is on a similar path as speckled trout and red fish toward becoming a â€œgame fishâ€ only.

http://gulfseafoodnews.com/2015/04/20/share-gulf-gears-new-fight/


----------



## Chase This!

Here is THE problem. 

The commercial guys will always be more organized and fight harder. Why? Because it is their livelihood. They stand to make money, maybe lots, and their family depends on them catching snapper. They will fight and fight because they have to. Their homes and such won't pay for themselves. 

Whereas the recs have been successful in other areas of their lives and can fish for fun. Recs will never fight as hard for "fun". Most don't have the time or energy, since they spend it on their career and families. 

So, there likely won't be a solution. Unless someone comes along and galvanizes the recs and leads a fight. However, even then, we are fighting over fun. How hard will the masses fight for fun?


----------



## saltaholic

I believe there still still some active lawsuits pending


----------



## ToddyTrout

Hi Tom, the easiest way would be to do an open records act with TPWD on prior convictions involving Katie's and/or Buddy. There are plenty on record!
I'm retired from the business so I can't really help much from my end.
It's funny how the show depicts him as fishing all the time. Most of the times we boarded his boats the crews were a bunch of wino's and druggies. He was very seldom on board.


----------



## Lostinpecos

Would hunters be okay with this sort of business happened with deer? 
Do commercial guys feed the Red Snapper?


----------



## Snookered

The Last Mango said:


> I shrimp in Federal waters and don't pay a royalty fee? You can't shrimp in Federal Waters, it's limited entry, why aren't you complaining about that ?


 because it has NO EFFECT on the length of recreational shrimping season.....try again....
snookered


----------



## Snookered

Lostinpecos said:


> Posing as a federal game warden...Nice..Did they find a rec fisherman doing illegal catch? NOPE
> 
> Glad his wife told him its not his place do pretend you are a FISH POLICE!


Um.....that's like a FELONY.....jail time and stuff.....fines and seizing boats.....may go to the FBI.....if you call in the hotline at 855-TELL-FBI or 855-835-5324 there could be a reward......just saying....or it might go the Texas Rangers at 512-424-2160
snookered


----------



## hilton

Ed said:


> They pay a 3% cost recovery fee on the ex vessel value of the catch. Ex-vessel value is the price paid for the fish before expenses. So, if an IFQ holder brings in 10,000 lbs and the fish sell for $5.50/lb, they Feds collect 3% of $55,000, or $1,650.


From what I understand, the 3% CRF doesn't even cover the expense of managing and enforcing the program, so not only does the nation not receive any royalty from the harvest of these fish, to add insult to injury they are charging the nation money to manage and enforce the Gulf IFQ program. The recent increase in TAC may have reduced or eliminated that deficit, but all in all, the IFQ program is a ripoff for the American People as compared to other industries that profit from the harvest of our Public Trust Resources.


----------



## saltaholic

Snookered said:


> Um.....that's like a FELONY.....jail time and stuff.....fines and seizing boats.....may go to the FBI.....if you call in the hotline at 855-TELL-FBI or 855-835-5324 there could be a reward......just saying....or it might go the Texas Rangers at 512-424-2160
> snookered


It was probably scripted but if not I hope it gets them in trouble- nothing like committing a felony on national tv.....


----------



## manintheboat

In fairness, I don't think he was impersonating a GW, was just going to try to film illegal fishing and/or call in TX#'s. Of course, he didn't catch anyone. The way that Guindon and Hickman go on and on about all of the outlaws out there fishing illegally, it shouldn't be hard to find them on a calm day out of Galveston. Buddy knows where the fish holding structure is so it is not like there are an unlimited place the outlaws could be hiding. Go figure. I guess it isn't as big of a deal as made out to be.


----------



## Lostinpecos

I beg to differ, his approach was to bait Rec into snapper fishing as if it was okay and take photos in the act. No telling how he would spin the story. He also mentioned using two decoys to deceive a recreational fisherman. I can only assumed the cut out the snapper they were probably pulling up on his own boat.

If his plan was did play out, how do we know the rec caught in his photo would either really be catching red snapper or happen to be innocent seen catching the byproduct when he/she was really trying to target AJ or grouper. 

GW uses decoys to catch illegal poachers. So I don't see the difference


----------



## Ernest

What? 

He went out in his own boat with his son and his father. He was hoping to photograph recs. catching and keeping red snapper out of season. The son and father were the "decoys." There was nothing illegal about it. Nothing. 

And, we are encouraged to report illegal activity we see on the water. If we can get a photo of the conduct, all the better. Its called Operation Game Thief here in Texas. You can actually earn cash rewards. 

Same basic deal with Crime Stoppers and a host of similar programs. My hood even has a neighborhood watch group that monitors and reports illegal conduct. And, those guys are armed with both guns and cameras.


----------



## bcoastal

saltaholic said:


> So when is this going to pizz recs off enough to do something? A newscast? A 20/20 episode? A protest ? A billboard? Not sure what it will take but heads need to turn as this is a numbers game and public exposure is the first step....
> 
> Is there still a RFA or FRA lawsuit active??


A billboard is a great idea. We need to form some type of alliance ourselves to raise some money to go against these guys. It will take money to get some attention. Maybe we need a snapper tournament to support our cause...


----------



## manintheboat

Lostinpecos said:


> I beg to differ, his approach was to bait Rec into snapper fishing as if it was okay and take photos in the act. No telling how he would spin the story. He also mentioned using two decoys to deceive a recreational fisherman. I can only assumed the cut out the snapper they were probably pulling up on his own boat.
> 
> If his plan was did play out, how do we know the rec caught in his photo would either really be catching red snapper or happen to be innocent seen catching the byproduct when he/she was really trying to target AJ or grouper.
> 
> GW uses decoys to catch illegal poachers. So I don't see the difference


disagree, and I REALLY hate defending a world class a-hole like BG, but he wasn't doing anything illegal by trying to find outlaw fishermen to narc on. Of course, it is only illegal to catch and retain snapper in federal waters (right?) so if he is calling in TX numbers on guys who are running flat lines for kingfish, then he can kindly go F himself. Either way, it just makes him and Hickman both look like b's (word for female dog).

Okay, so what about this question: Even though he has a commercial license, could it be considered it illegal for him to be on a recreational boat in federal waters during closed season fishing for snapper recreationally? He was clearly doing this in 2 episodes, or at least it seemed that way. Technically, if he takes the fish home and tosses them on the grill instead of reporting them as commercial catch (and calling in before he lands them at the fish market), wouldn't he be running afoul of the law? If he is going to claim instead that he was fishing commercially, doesn't his sport boat have to be outfitted with a VMS? Isn't that part of the law? I doubt that boat has a VMS, so perhaps he could be turned in himself and the game wardens can have a little chat with him. Karma, bud.


----------



## Snookered

manintheboat said:


> In fairness, I don't think he was impersonating a GW, was just going to try to film illegal fishing and/or call in TX#'s.


 oh, gotcha....I didn't see it, so I don't know....
snookered


----------



## manintheboat

Just pay close attention next week. I guarantee that he will catch a rec in federal waters next week, but it will be quite possibly a staged event. Just pay attention to the boat and the people in it. I am sure one of us will recognize the person. If it truly is a staged event, probably a buddy of his from Galveston, we can turn it around on him.


----------



## offshorefanatic

manintheboat said:


> disagree, and I REALLY hate defending a world class a-hole like BG, but he wasn't doing anything illegal by trying to find outlaw fishermen to narc on. Of course, it is only illegal to catch and retain snapper in federal waters (right?) so if he is calling in TX numbers on guys who are running flat lines for kingfish, then he can kindly go F himself. Either way, it just makes him and Hickman both look like b's (word for female dog).
> 
> Okay, so what about this question: Even though he has a commercial license, could it be considered it illegal for him to be on a recreational boat in federal waters during closed season fishing for snapper recreationally? He was clearly doing this in 2 episodes, or at least it seemed that way. Technically, if he takes the fish home and tosses them on the grill instead of reporting them as commercial catch (and calling in before he lands them at the fish market), wouldn't he be running afoul of the law? If he is going to claim instead that he was fishing commercially, doesn't his sport boat have to be outfitted with a VMS? Isn't that part of the law? I doubt that boat has a VMS, so perhaps he could be turned in himself and the game wardens can have a little chat with him. Karma, bud.


Didn't watch the episode but there are several center consoles that have commercial quota,permits and the vms.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Momma's Worry

*Snapper Wars*

that show can work wonders for the Rec cause if turned around properly and can be used to good effect.....BG has put himself ,Katies' Seafood, and all comms under the microscope for all to see ,getting past the scripted drama.....
that show was not produced to entertain those involved in Snapper Wars ....quite the opposite ... maybe the producer does not even have a clue?
the show is doing exactly what I said it would do......**** off a lot of people....


----------



## Capt'nDanG

The show hasn't put them under anymore of a microscope than they have already put themselves under... The government already knows when they go fishing, what they are targeting when they go fishing, can watch where their boats are at all times, and how much fish they are expected to bring back to the dock with plenty of time for agents to meet them there to verify their catches.



Momma's Worry said:


> that show can work wonders for the Rec cause if turned around properly and can be used to good effect.....BG has put himself ,Katies' Seafood, and all comms under the microscope for all to see ,getting past the scripted drama.....
> that show was not produced to entertain those involved in Snapper Wars ....quite the opposite ... maybe the producer does not even have a clue?
> the show is doing exactly what I said it would do......**** off a lot of people....


----------



## hilton

Capt'nDanG said:


> The show hasn't put them under anymore of a microscope than they have already put themselves under... The government already knows when they go fishing, what they are targeting when they go fishing, can watch where their boats are at all times, and how much fish they are expected to bring back to the dock with plenty of time for agents to meet them there to verify their catches.


Not really - lets see the financial transaction info between Hickman and Guindon with their "Commercial Catch Share Fishing Experience". You know, where recreational fishermen prepay Katie's Seafood double retail prices to go out and catch the fish. Why? Because it's a charter but they can't call it a charter.

It makes an absolute mockery of the system.


----------



## Capt'nDanG

The guys on the wicked tuna let people pay them to go catch their bluefin tuna that they sell the to market. The guys dont even get to keep any fish. Ive even heard from customers that the charter boats in hawaii doesnt let any customers keep any fish, they just sell them all and still get paid by the customers to go fishing for them. At least with what scotts doing the people get to harvest their own red snapper and take it home to eat. If they went to HEB they would be paying $23.00 per lb...

How about you open up your books and let everyone see how much money you make off of your maps and forecasting tools?



hilton said:


> Not really - lets see the financial transaction info between Hickman and Guindon with their "Commercial Catch Share Fishing Experience". You know, where recreational fishermen prepay Katie's Seafood double retail prices to go out and catch the fish. Why? Because it's a charter but they can't call it a charter.
> 
> It makes an absolute mockery of the system.


----------



## Jolly Roger

Capt'nDanG said:


> The guys on the wicked tuna let people pay them to go catch their bluefin tuna that they sell the to market. The guys dont even get to keep any fish. Ive even heard from customers that the charter boats in hawaii doesnt let any customers keep any fish, they just sell them all and still get paid by the customers to go fishing for them. At least with what scotts doing the people get to harvest their own red snapper and take it home to eat. If they went to HEB they would be paying $23.00 per lb...
> 
> How about you open up your books and let everyone see how much money you make off of your maps and forecasting tools?


You are defending people who sold snapper for dog food............


----------



## Capt'nDanG

I think what they were trying to depict on the episode is that the fish came in unfit to their standards for human consumption so they didnt want to waste it. Its not like they are intentionally catching the fish to sell for dog food...



Jolly Roger said:


> You are defending people who sold snapper for dog food............


----------



## Chase This!

Capt'nDanG said:


> I think what they were trying to depict on the episode is that the fish came in unfit to their standards for human consumption so they didnt want to waste it. Its not like they are intentionally catching the fish to sell for dog food...


LoL. C'mon now.

You still running charters, Dan?


----------



## J.Oberholtzer

Sounds like a p---head supporter. I bet next week that contender they catch might even be pos hickmans with other people on it. Everybody in business makes money for sure this is about them not wanting the Recs to even be able to fish. Like he said the gom is so many thousands of square miles. Just share it and we can all get along. I have a good friend that actually snapper fishes and actually is a part of this show but he does to support his family but I told him if it was ripped from him tommorow I wouldn't feel sorry for him at all. Same for all of them I really would care. He says he agrees that it's bs that we can only fish a couple days a year but what do you do. Like he said at the gulf council nobody comes to support the Recs period.


----------



## Capt'nDanG

Im trying to! lol



Chase This! said:


> LoL. C'mon now.
> 
> You still running charters, Dan?


----------



## popeye_iv

Snookered said:


> Um.....that's like a FELONY.....jail time and stuff.....fines and seizing boats.....may go to the FBI.....if you call in the hotline at 855-TELL-FBI or 855-835-5324 there could be a reward......just saying....or it might go the Texas Rangers at 512-424-2160
> snookered


For the record, he did not pose as a game warden, he was attempting to pose as a rec fisherman jigging for snapper so he can get close to enough to someone to shoot some video.

Not sure how he planned to do that discreetly with a camera crew on board.

The whole episode was obviously staged so he can get out his message of how the recreational fisherman are killing the fishery and to have the tender "Your family is more important that the fish" moment to close out the show.


----------



## flashlight

Looks like the are trying to copy the Duck Commander show at the end where the family is all sitting around the dinner table. LOL


----------



## Mako-Wish

Capt'nDanG said:


> The guys on the wicked tuna let people pay them to go catch their bluefin tuna that they sell the to market. The guys dont even get to keep any fish.


This is false information. Did you just make it up to help your cause? A quick Google search for the charters on that show will clearly show that if you catch a fish under 73 inches you can keep it. If you catch one over 73 inches you are rewarded with 25% of the take up to the price of the charter. I.e., if you catch a giant tuna and an undersize you basically get the charter for free along with your fish.


----------



## Lostinpecos

Buddy stated:" I'm bringing my Dad and youngest son, Christopher, to act as recreational decoys, if you want to catch them fishing illegally, you gotta make them think you are doing the same thing". Then goes on "This will be fun to catch some people doing some illegal fishing"

How far he would drag out the process would be questioned. So far, you can sense the resentment and his determination.

He stated a lot of recs are doing illegal fishing... I just don't think that is a fair statement.


----------



## garyatcb

Any day now a mfg will offer a stealth CC to fish next to BG. BTW that's a great spot 100' off the North Jetty


----------



## hilton

Capt'nDanG said:


> The guys on the wicked tuna let people pay them to go catch their bluefin tuna that they sell the to market. The guys dont even get to keep any fish. Ive even heard from customers that the charter boats in hawaii doesnt let any customers keep any fish, they just sell them all and still get paid by the customers to go fishing for them. At least with what scotts doing the people get to harvest their own red snapper and take it home to eat. If they went to HEB they would be paying $23.00 per lb...
> 
> How about you open up your books and let everyone see how much money you make off of your maps and forecasting tools?


False on several counts - you are either misinformed or just like misinforming people - which is it? Here's a shot from HEB tonight - $23/pound? Nope.

You can buy fresh red snapper at Katie's for $8/pound, yet Guindon charges $16/pound for the commercial catch share fishing experience - how much is he paying Hickman? $8/pound? Why is he paying one captain $8/pound retail pricing while paying other commercial captains $4/pound wholesale?

It stinks to high heaven.


----------



## sotexhookset

That snapper on the right doesn't look so fresh.


----------



## Jolly Roger

Capt'nDanG said:


> I think what they were trying to depict on the episode is that the fish came in unfit to their standards for human consumption so they didnt want to waste it. Its not like they are intentionally catching the fish to sell for dog food...


you can think whatever you want to, simple fact is they sold many a 1000s of pounds of snapper for dog food.

They even had a contact to move a huge amount of snapper at almost there market price. They do it often, and if you think not then you are naive. That is the racket. They have inflated the prices at the store and restaurants to make it look like demand when in fact they are selling huge amounts to be ground up for dog food.

It was on there freaking show, did you listen to the price they got for them and then for a second in your head do the math. If they sell half there catch at market price, then what does not sell at dog food price they make a killing. They are gaming the system, it is a monopoly.


----------



## CoastalOutfitters

reported every fish landing...........dude seriously ?

if they don't get checked at the dock they don't report it

it's all cash and carry, no paper trail... run and gun with the offload trucks at 2-4 am

been that way for years


----------



## Capt'nDanG

You obviously don't know how a VMS works...



CoastalOutfitters said:


> reported every fish landing...........dude seriously ?
> 
> if they don't get checked at the dock they don't report it
> 
> it's all cash and carry, no paper trail... run and gun with the offload trucks at 2-4 am
> 
> been that way for years


----------



## jeffsfishin

*Question*



hilton said:


> Not really - lets see the financial transaction info between Hickman and Guindon with their "Commercial Catch Share Fishing Experience". You know, where recreational fishermen prepay Katie's Seafood double retail prices to go out and catch the fish. Why? Because it's a charter but they can't call it a charter.
> 
> It makes an absolute mockery of the system.


 So can a Commercial fisherman that does not a CFH license do these catch shares trips?


----------



## Capt'nDanG

The catch share trips are commercial fishing trips.



jeffsfishin said:


> So can a Commercial fisherman that does not a CFH license do these catch shares trips?


----------



## jeffsfishin

Capt'nDanG said:


> The catch share trips are commercial fishing trips.


 So any commercial fisherman holding only a Reef Fish permit could do this as long as the customers go through a fish house and pre purchase the fish at an elevated price. 
Hard to believe the commercial fisherman would not have to hold a Charter for Hire permit, Heck it might be worth buying a Reef permit just to start doing for pay trips in this way. I know the current leasing price on Red Snapper Quota is around $3.00lb so if I charged the guy's $16lb and they were allowed to load the boat, it could be quite profitable.


----------



## hilton

Capt'nDanG said:


> The catch share trips are commercial fishing trips.


They are taking recreational fishermen on a charter fishing trip using commercial quota, thus the inflated price to pay for a trip that only brings back 150 pounds of snapper. They cannot call it a charter due to legal issues, but that is what it is. It also eliminates jobs, since the paying customers are now catching the fish and not the deckhands who used to catch them.


----------



## J_Philla

CoastalOutfitters said:


> reported every fish landing...........dude seriously ?
> 
> if they don't get checked at the dock they don't report it
> 
> it's all cash and carry, no paper trail... run and gun with the offload trucks at 2-4 am
> 
> been that way for years


your a little mistaken or informed or both..... since the ifq program started no vessel can offload past 6pm. the legal offload times are 6am-6pm, and thats only after you have sent in a 3hr landing notification to the nmfs. offload past time of tie up before you 3 hr notification is done, and you will loose all your fish and get a big *** fine.


----------



## On The Hook

Capt'nDanG said:


> I think what they were trying to depict on the episode is that the fish came in unfit to their standards for human consumption so they didnt want to waste it. Its not like they are intentionally catching the fish to sell for dog food...


Explain how a "professional", commercial fishing operation is allowed to catch so many fish (especially a "seriously endangered" species that requires such heavy regulation, like red snapper), that, they can't keep them in a manner that keeps them fit for human consumption? How is this ok? Seems like wanton waste to me.

If they can't ensure their catch is maintained in a manner that ensures those fish are fit for human consumption, then, they shouldn't be allowed to harvest those fish.

The the unnamed (hidden from the public by the gulf council) ifq holders are allowed to blatantly waste our resources, but we as recreational fishermen, can't legally fish for or keep any red snapper in federal waters except for a ridiculously short 3-10 very specific day "season" . This makes sense to anyone how?

Stop the conversion of public resources to private property.......................... END THE GULF COUNCiL.


----------



## flashlight

On The Hook said:


> Explain how a "professional", commercial fishing operation is allowed to catch so many fish (especially a "seriously endangered" species that requires such heavy regulation, like red snapper), that, they can't keep them in a manner that keeps them fit for human consumption? How is this ok? Seems like wanton waste to me.
> 
> If they can't ensure their catch is maintained in a manner that ensures those fish are fit for human consumption, then, they shouldn't be allowed to harvest those fish.
> 
> The the unnamed (hidden from the public by the gulf council) ifq holders are allowed to blatantly waste our resources, but we as recreational fishermen, can't legally fish for or keep any red snapper in federal waters except for a ridiculously short 3-10 very specific day "season" . This makes sense to anyone how?
> 
> Stop the conversion of public resources to private property.......................... END THE GULF COUNCiL.


100 % agree!


----------



## saltaholic

Here is the list of Share the Gulf affiliates

http://sharethegulf.org/supporters/

Does anyone have a list of the CFA supporters? Would like to see who all is involved with that too


----------



## Stumpgrinder

Spock said it best when he was dying inside the reactor room after saving the Enterprise. " the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few". Get rid of commercial redsnapoer fishing as an industry. Outlaw it.

calling Buddy Guindin a conservationist or a steward of a resource is straight up nonsense. He's a pillager and an opportunist. " his fish" ..... Screw that


----------



## Capt'nDanG

Have you been on one of these trips to see how they are operated?



hilton said:


> They are taking recreational fishermen on a charter fishing trip using commercial quota, thus the inflated price to pay for a trip that only brings back 150 pounds of snapper. They cannot call it a charter due to legal issues, but that is what it is. It also eliminates jobs, since the paying customers are now catching the fish and not the deckhands who used to catch them.


----------



## Momma's Worry

Capt'nDanG said:


> The show hasn't put them under anymore of a microscope than they have already put themselves under... The government already knows when they go fishing, what they are targeting when they go fishing, can watch where their boats are at all times, and how much fish they are expected to bring back to the dock with plenty of time for agents to meet them there to verify their catches.


my comment was ...for the general fishing public to see them in operation..
why have they not shown the government controls or agents to meet them to verify?


----------



## saltaholic

Capt'nDanG said:


> Have you been on one of these trips to see how they are operated?


Why are you defending them? Are you a CFA supporter/member?


----------



## Capt'nDanG

Yes I have a charter operation that does bay, jetty, and offshore fishing. But Im defending them because they aren't the problem with recreational fishing and there is a lot of misinformation going on.


----------



## Capt'nDanG

I don't know why they haven't shown agents watching them unload. I think that would have been a good idea but I didn't make the show. Maybe the camera crews were never there when that happened or maybe the TPW or feds didnt want to be put on the show?



Momma's Worry said:


> my comment was ...for the general fishing public to see them in operation..
> why have they not shown the government controls or agents to meet them to verify?


----------



## saltaholic

Capt'nDanG said:


> Yes I have a charter operation that does bay, jetty, and offshore fishing. But Im defending them because they aren't the problem with recreational fishing.


I know you are a charter captain but my question was do you support CFA?

If you are a CFA member there is no point arguing with you as we already know your agenda for snapper, CFA has made that clear. To each their own but CFA and 99% of the people on 2cool will not agree ever

And the filing of the lawsuits definitely affected Rec fishing


----------



## Momma's Worry

Lostinpecos said:


> Buddy stated:" I'm bringing my Dad and youngest son, Christopher, to act as recreational decoys, if you want to catch them fishing illegally, you gotta make them think you are doing the same thing". Then goes on "This will be fun to catch some people doing some illegal fishing"
> 
> How far he would drag out the process would be questioned. So far, you can sense the resentment and his determination.
> 
> He stated a lot of recs are doing illegal fishing... I just don't think that is a fair statement.


for the script.....
They will simply pull up to someone,after a lot of time and effort,or better yet get an unknown bud to help out .....catch and release some snaps only do not show the release part or Tx numbers ......busted poacher


----------



## Capt'nDanG

The lawsuit that was filed by the commercial sector was towards noaa because they haven't stopped the recreational sector from over fishing their allocation year after year. The lawsuit resulted in noaa having to put in place the buffer so that they made sure the recreational sector didn't over fish. Since no one has come up with any other viable solution to keep recreational sector from overfishing, thats what it has come down to. If you can figure out a way that the recs won't overfish the allocation then you'll get the buffered allocation back to fish. Simple as that

If you put the shoe on the other foot, and the recreational sector wasnt overfishing their allocation and the commercial guys continuously overfished theirs, Im pretty sure the recs would want to file a lawsuit as well when it kept them from growing their allocation and snapper season...

And I am a CFA member but besides that I support the facts. And you guys get your facts from people who dont know all the facts, are speculating, or just flat out spreading misinformation.

Alot of this show is scripted. It didnt take a rocket scientist to figure out that when buddy went out looking for poaching rec fishermen he didnt even leave the bay. If you know enough about fishing and our area its easy to tell that.



saltaholic said:


> I know you are a charter captain but my question was do you support CFA?
> 
> If you are a CFA member there is no point arguing with you as we already know your agenda for snapper, CFA has made that clear. To each their own but CFA and 99% of the people on 2cool will not agree ever
> 
> And the filing of the lawsuits definitely affected Rec fishing


----------



## Momma's Worry

Capt'nDanG said:


> I don't know why they haven't shown agents watching them unload. I think that would have been a good idea but I didn't make the show. Maybe the camera crews were never there when that happened or maybe the TPW or feds didn't want to be put on the show?
> 
> I am thinking that the laws are there and BG or the producer chose not to show them doing their job.....


----------



## saltaholic

Capt'nDanG said:


> The lawsuit that was filed by the commercial sector was towards noaa because they haven't stopped the recreational sector from over fishing their allocation year after year. The lawsuit resulted in noaa having to put in place the buffer so that they made sure the recreational sector didn't over fish. Since no one has come up with any other viable solution to keep recreational sector from overfishing, thats what it has come down to. If you can figure out a way that the recs won't overfish the allocation then you'll get the buffered allocation back to fish. Simple as that
> 
> If you put the shoe on the other foot, and the recreational sector wasnt overfishing their allocation and the commercial guys continuously overfished theirs, Im pretty sure the recs would want to file a lawsuit as well when it kept them from growing their allocation and snapper season...
> 
> And I am a CFA member but besides that I support the facts. And you guys get your facts from people who dont know all the facts, are speculating, or just flat out spreading misinformation.
> 
> Alot of this show is scripted. It didnt take a rocket scientist to figure out that when buddy went out looking for poaching rec fishermen he didnt even leave the bay. If you know enough about fishing and our area its easy to tell that.


No point in responding to that as I have already heard the CFA propaganda in person many times and that should tell you where my info comes from.

Guess we will wait and see what the last lawsuits do this month

Oh but wait- please explain why a charter captain who takes recs fishing is defending the commercial group instead of his own customers??? Until amd40 you and your customers were the overfishing recs too

I have no problem with charters capts but I will not use or support the ones who pushed amd40


----------



## Capt'nDanG

Who knows.



Momma's Worry said:


> Capt'nDanG said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know why they haven't shown agents watching them unload. I think that would have been a good idea but I didn't make the show. Maybe the camera crews were never there when that happened or maybe the TPW or feds didn't want to be put on the show?
> 
> I am thinking that the laws are there and BG or the producer chose not to show them doing their job.....
Click to expand...


----------



## roundman

billyc333 used to post alot until his padners told him to stay on the down low about they bidness,lol


----------



## flashlight

saltaholic said:


> Here is the list of Share the Gulf affiliates
> 
> http://sharethegulf.org/supporters/
> 
> Does anyone have a list of the CFA supporters? Would like to see who all is involved with that too


 Thanks for posting. I will not be contributing any of my money in the future to any of these people/businesses. Its clear they do not have the rec fisherman's interest at heart.


----------



## chuck richey

Looks like us recs need to get our business plan in order like the CFH group has. Oh wait, we don't make money so cant call it a business plan.


----------



## Fin Reaper

chuck richey said:


> Looks like us recs need to get our business plan in order like the CFH group has. Oh wait, we don't make money so cant call it a business plan.


its called an action plan....


----------



## On The Hook

saltaholic said:


> Here is the list of Share the Gulf affiliates
> 
> http://sharethegulf.org/supporters/
> 
> Does anyone have a list of the CFA supporters? Would like to see who all is involved with that too


It's interesting how deceptive their organization is. Share the gulf? The natural perception of the word "us" as they us it would imply all Americans, including the public at large and recreational fishermen. They, however, without publicly disclosing it, appear to use the word "us" to mean themselves, and only themselves.

The average layperson would get a feel good by joining what would appear to be a conservation group focused on saving a public resource, when in fact, their "organization" exists solely for the benefit of its for profit members (sea lords) and those who profit from them. This is all at the absolute exclusion of the public at large, and recreational fishermen.

What a farce. How can our government put for profit businesses ahead of the general public and recreational fishermen?


----------



## On The Hook

Capt'nDanG said:


> The lawsuit that was filed by the commercial sector was towards noaa because they haven't stopped the recreational sector from over fishing their allocation year after year. The lawsuit resulted in noaa having to put in place the buffer so that they made sure the recreational sector didn't over fish. Since no one has come up with any other viable solution to keep recreational sector from overfishing, thats what it has come down to. If you can figure out a way that the recs won't overfish the allocation then you'll get the buffered allocation back to fish. Simple as that
> 
> If you put the shoe on the other foot, and the recreational sector wasnt overfishing their allocation and the commercial guys continuously overfished theirs, Im pretty sure the recs would want to file a lawsuit as well when it kept them from growing their allocation and snapper season...
> 
> And I am a CFA member but besides that I support the facts. And you guys get your facts from people who dont know all the facts, are speculating, or just flat out spreading misinformation.
> 
> Alot of this show is scripted. It didnt take a rocket scientist to figure out that when buddy went out looking for poaching rec fishermen he didnt even leave the bay. If you know enough about fishing and our area its easy to tell that.


How can the public "overfish" a public resource, but privately owned for profit commercial operations who take far more than the public not overfish it? This doesn't pass any logic test. You act like allocating public resources to private industry is common, or normal, it is not.

The public should be able to take from the resource first, then if there is any left over without detriment to the base stock, the commercial operations should, through open bidding be allowed to purchase a portion of what remains without endangering the base stock. That is they way it should be, because that is the right way to do it. Fish in the gulf are a natural resource that belongs to all Americans, not just a few privateers who have manipulated another corrupt and broken government system. :headknock


----------



## hilton

Capt'nDanG said:


> The lawsuit that was filed by the commercial sector was towards noaa because they haven't stopped the recreational sector from over fishing their allocation year after year. The lawsuit resulted in noaa having to put in place the buffer so that they made sure the recreational sector didn't over fish. Since no one has come up with any other viable solution to keep recreational sector from overfishing, thats what it has come down to. If you can figure out a way that the recs won't overfish the allocation then you'll get the buffered allocation back to fish. Simple as that
> 
> If you put the shoe on the other foot, and the recreational sector wasnt overfishing their allocation and the commercial guys continuously overfished theirs, Im pretty sure the recs would want to file a lawsuit as well when it kept them from growing their allocation and snapper season...
> 
> And I am a CFA member but besides that I support the facts. And you guys get your facts from people who dont know all the facts, are speculating, or just flat out spreading misinformation.
> 
> Alot of this show is scripted. It didnt take a rocket scientist to figure out that when buddy went out looking for poaching rec fishermen he didnt even leave the bay. If you know enough about fishing and our area its easy to tell that.


The lawsuit was based on bogus data from a system that was deemed fatally flawed and unsuitable for the purpose that the NMFS is using it.

The lawsuit was intended to remove the recreational fishermen from the water, as we are deemed to be "competition" for "their assets".

The lawsuit was intended to provide justification for implementing catch shares in the recreational fishery, again using said bogus data.

Nothing more, nothing less.


----------



## hilton

Capt'nDanG said:


> Have you been on one of these trips to see how they are operated?


As you know, I have thousands of customers here in the Gulf. There have been some that have contacted me regarding their "experience" fishing on Hickman's and/or Cantrell's boats. Anything from the crew having to bait their customers' hooks (just like they do on charters and to avoid labor law issues) to the non-stop propaganda on the trip.

It's obvious what they are doing, but why don't you enlighten the rest about what you know about these "commercial catch share fishing experience trips".


----------



## hookN

Y'all need to go on a Rec Poachers Patrol more often LOL...

I don't know whether THIS show here or Nat Geo big fish texas is best , but I'm a LMAO with all this "tin foil " nonsense . 

Y'all go on.


----------



## Jolly Roger

Capt'nDanG said:


> The lawsuit that was filed by the commercial sector was towards noaa because they haven't stopped the recreational sector from over fishing their allocation year after year. The lawsuit resulted in noaa having to put in place the buffer so that they made sure the recreational sector didn't over fish. Since no one has come up with any other viable solution to keep recreational sector from overfishing, thats what it has come down to. If you can figure out a way that the recs won't overfish the allocation then you'll get the buffered allocation back to fish. Simple as that
> 
> If you put the shoe on the other foot, and the recreational sector wasnt overfishing their allocation and the commercial guys continuously overfished theirs, Im pretty sure the recs would want to file a lawsuit as well when it kept them from growing their allocation and snapper season...
> 
> And I am a CFA member but besides that I support the facts. And you guys get your facts from people who dont know all the facts, are speculating, or just flat out spreading misinformation.
> 
> Alot of this show is scripted. It didnt take a rocket scientist to figure out that when buddy went out looking for poaching rec fishermen he didnt even leave the bay. If you know enough about fishing and our area its easy to tell that.


Facts are that the Gulf states have proven the FEDs are overestimating the REC harvest buy a huge amount. This is a proven fact. Yet you, CFA, Commercial and the FEDs ignore these FACTS.

Facts are that the Gulf states have proven that the FEDs grossly underestimate the Snapper population in the gulf by a huge margin, thus cutting the REC season way to short. This is a proven fact, the FEDs did not even count reef fish on reefs...... how stupid is that. Yet you, CFA, Commercial and the FEDs ignore these FACTS.

Facts are any and every attemp made by REC to get better data, more season or in general improve for the RECs is fought at every turn by you, CFA and commercial.

All five gulf states have banded together and asked for control of the red snapper fishery to be taken away from the FEDs because the FEDs are doing such a horrible job of management. These are the foremost experts on Gulf coast fishery management wanting control. This is FACT.

Your facts are wrong, you are using the FEDs data and it has proven to be inaccurate. Even the FED themselves admit this. The commercial sued to keep the REC season short, no other reason.


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## Stumpgrinder

Putting buddy Guindon on poacher patrol is like putting Ron Jeremy in charge of stopping pornography


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## gater

*Nonsense*



hookN said:


> Y'all need to go on a Rec Poachers Patrol more often LOL...
> 
> I don't know whether THIS show here or Nat Geo big fish texas is best , but I'm a LMAO with all this "tin foil " nonsense .
> 
> Y'all go on.


What tin foil nonsense are you refering too......


----------



## saltaholic

"Tin foil " is what They start saying when facts get exposed they have been doing that for years. Try to make us look crazy when we are stating actual facts.....


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## chuck richey

saltaholic said:


> "Tin foil " is what They start saying when facts get exposed they have been doing that for years. Try to make us look crazy when we are stating actual facts.....


 I can remember Jennings and Hickman spouting the tin foil BS for years. Seems that the truth is coming out now.


----------



## Momma's Worry

*Snapper Wars*

I know several comm fisher types and they all have had run-ins' with 
law enforcement over the years in their line of work.....cat and mouse ....
price of doing business.....I would think BG was no different


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## RedRocket

Capt'nDanG said:


> The catch share trips are commercial fishing trips.


 A commercial fishing trip is not paid for by the general public. On a commercial fishing trip you are paying the deckhands to do work and every one on the boat is a employee.

A catch share trip is a recreational fishing charter that the general public is paying for and is not a commercial fishing trip. If it was a commercial fishing trip the fisherman would be paid as employees and not paying a slime ball to take them fishing.


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## offshorefanatic

Here's where I stand. Hate me all you want. Y'all act like every charter boat of cfa member is the devil.

You can ask a lot of people on here boat owners and non boat owners about me. I've jumped on several people on this boards boat and helped them learn, plugged some #s in to get them started and caught them some fish.

I've taken quite a few people off this board on my own vessel as a split expense. Heck just last week I took a group off this board to the garden areas for 100$ a head.

I'll offer this up to show y'all we are not as evil as y'all think. 3 2cool snapper trips during the charter boat season. 6 people. Split expenses only. Should come out to about 100$ a head. Message me to get on the list. Dates tbd.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Jolly Roger

offshorefanatic said:


> Here's where I stand. Hate me all you want. Y'all act like every charter boat of cfa member is the devil.
> 
> You can ask a lot of people on here boat owners and non boat owners about me. I've jumped on several people on this boards boat and helped them learn, plugged some #s in to get them started and caught them some fish.
> 
> I've taken quite a few people off this board on my own vessel as a split expense. Heck just last week I took a group off this board to the garden areas for 100$ a head.
> 
> I'll offer this up to show y'all we are not as evil as y'all think. 3 2cool snapper trips during the charter boat season. 6 people. Split expenses only. Should come out to about 100$ a head. Message me to get on the list. Dates tbd.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


CFA has tried to block ever advancement REC fishermen have tried to make. Everything, even now they are fighting REC fishermen and the Gulf States.

As long as you support an organization that is fighting REC fishermen that are trying to get better data and better management then you are part of the problem. Simple as that.

Yall choose to ignore the facts and use FED data that has been proven over and over again to be incorrect. All gulf states, and REC anglers want the Gulf States to manage the fishery. You and CFA are fighting state control and this put you against REC fishermen.


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## hilton

offshorefanatic said:


> Here's where I stand. Hate me all you want. Y'all act like every charter boat of cfa member is the devil.
> 
> You can ask a lot of people on here boat owners and non boat owners about me. I've jumped on several people on this boards boat and helped them learn, plugged some #s in to get them started and caught them some fish.
> 
> I've taken quite a few people off this board on my own vessel as a split expense. Heck just last week I took a group off this board to the garden areas for 100$ a head.
> 
> I'll offer this up to show y'all we are not as evil as y'all think. 3 2cool snapper trips during the charter boat season. 6 people. Split expenses only. Should come out to about 100$ a head. Message me to get on the list. Dates tbd.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I think it's time to start a _*UBER*_ service for offshore fishing - why pay these offshore taxi drivers when they are fighting to keep us off the water and steal our fish in the process?


----------



## Fin Reaper

offshorefanatic said:


> Here's where I stand. Hate me all you want. Y'all act like every charter boat of cfa member is the devil.
> 
> You can ask a lot of people on here boat owners and non boat owners about me. I've jumped on several people on this boards boat and helped them learn, plugged some #s in to get them started and caught them some fish.
> 
> I've taken quite a few people off this board on my own vessel as a split expense. Heck just last week I took a group off this board to the garden areas for 100$ a head.
> 
> I'll offer this up to show y'all we are not as evil as y'all think. 3 2cool snapper trips during the charter boat season. 6 people. Split expenses only. Should come out to about 100$ a head. Message me to get on the list. Dates tbd.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


thats a steep "split" with $1.45 gasoline for 6 people.


----------



## offshorefanatic

Jolly Roger said:


> CFA has tried to block ever advancement REC fishermen have tried to make. Everything, even now they are fighting REC fishermen and the Gulf States.
> 
> As long as you support an organization that is fighting REC fishermen that are trying to get better data and better management then you are part of the problem. Simple as that.
> 
> Yall choose to ignore the facts and use FED data that has been proven over and over again to be incorrect. All gulf states, and REC anglers want the Gulf States to manage the fishery. You and CFA are fighting state control and this put you against REC fishermen.


You are seriously miss informed. You obviously haven't been in the fight from the beginning.

Would you support a fish tag system that allowed u to fish when u wanted to? Kind of like a bull red tag?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## offshorefanatic

Fin Reaper said:


> thats a steep "split" with $1.45 gasoline for 6 people.


Ok. Go pay the headboat more. Fuel bait ice drinks. 100$ is a bargain. I said split expenses. So 100$ or less. Or don't.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## offshorefanatic

hilton said:


> I think it's time to start a _*UBER*_ service for offshore fishing - why pay these offshore taxi drivers when they are fighting to keep us off the water and steal our fish in the process?


Ole king Hilton. You're kind of the reason the recs are where they are. Mr no man. Mr fight any viable solution to the issues for the last 7 yrs. you're not fooling anyone.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Jolly Roger

offshorefanatic said:


> You are seriously miss informed. You obviously haven't been in the fight from the beginning.
> 
> Would you support a fish tag system that allowed u to fish when u wanted to? Kind of like a bull red tag?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sorry, but you are the one that is misinformed. Everything I have said is solid FACTS.

You, CFA and Commercial use FED data that has been proven to be incorrect to back your cause. You,CFA and Commercial are fighting against state control of the fishery. These are the facts.

Tag system would never work under the current management, so no. There would not be enough tags for REC fishermen and would only limit REC fishermen more. It is simple math to do, number of poundage allowed divied by fishermen there would not even be enough tags for Florida alone, much less any other state.

FED management is so horrible that every expert in the Gulf states wants and have ASKED to take control away from the FEDs. Yet you fight state control, then claim I am misinformed. Just more BS from CFA.


----------



## offshorefanatic

Jolly Roger said:


> Sorry, but you are the one that is misinformed. Everything I have said is solid FACTS.
> 
> You, CFA and Commercial use FED data that has been proven to be incorrect to back your cause. You,CFA and Commercial are fighting against state control of the fishery. These are the facts.
> 
> Tag system would never work under the current management, so no. There would not be enough tags for REC fishermen and would only limit REC fishermen more. It is simple math to do, number of poundage allowed divied by fishermen there would not even be enough tags for Florida alone, much less any other state.
> 
> FED management is so horrible that every expert in the Gulf states wan to take control away from them. Yet you fight this, then claim I am misinformed. Just more BS from CFA.


So what do u propose? Specifics? Would tags have worked prior to the charter split??

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Lostinpecos

offshorefanatic said:


> You are seriously miss informed. You obviously haven't been in the fight from the beginning.
> 
> Would you support a fish tag system that allowed u to fish when u wanted to? Kind of like a bull red tag?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I would take this over the fed garbage we have now. Yes, I would uber my time for those 30 days if I could. Rec RS season is a joke.


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## J.Oberholtzer

Whether cfa or not good people are good people and ***** are *****, by and Hickman to say. personally haven't fished with offshore fanatic but have shared shrimp boats and other information with him. And I know he offers this all the time of split the cost. And yes I think it a bargin. Reels rods braid for poles his boat insurance etc everybody that owns a boat knows this is a bargin. Whether cfa get extra days to fish so be just go fish and worry about the other stuff if pulled over. State water snapper are the best.


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## offshorefanatic

J.Oberholtzer said:


> Whether cfa or not good people are good people and ***** are *****, by and Hickman to say. personally haven't fished with offshore fanatic but have shared shrimp boats and other information with him. And I know he offers this all the time of split the cost. And yes I think it a bargin. Reels rods braid for poles his boat insurance etc everybody that owns a boat knows this is a bargin. Whether cfa get extra days to fish so be just go fish and worry about the other stuff if pulled over. State water snapper are the best.


Truth. I just get worked up when everyone categorizes all charter boats or cfa members all the same. You wanna go keep snapper. That's your business not mine. I can't so I don't.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Jolly Roger

offshorefanatic said:


> So what do u propose? Specifics? Would tags have worked prior to the charter split??
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You act like there is no plan, are you that misinformed?

I purpose state control of the fishery as in the bill in Congress RIGHT NOW that CFA and you are against.

The specifics are in bill H.R. 3094. it would give control of the Red Snapper fishery to the Gulf states. All gulf sates are supporting this bill and all gulf states have put together a plan for management. The fact you do not know about this, yet claim I am misinformed speaks volumes.


----------



## Capt'nDanG

Jolly Roger said:


> offshorefanatic said:
> 
> 
> 
> You act like there is no plan, are you that misinformed?
> 
> I purpose state control of the fishery as in the bill in Congress RIGHT NOW that CFA and you are against.
> 
> The specifics are in bill H.R. 3094. it would give control of the Red Snapper fishery to the Gulf states. All gulf sates are supporting this bill and all gulf states have put together a plan for management. The fact you do not know about this, yet claim I am misinformed speaks volumes.
> 
> 
> 
> I and many other CFA captains have stood up in front of the council and given public testimony that we don't mind if the recs are managed by the states as long as we are left out of the deal. We like where our future is headed and have worked hard to get where we are.
Click to expand...


----------



## Capt'nDanG

hilton said:


> offshorefanatic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's where I stand. Hate me all you want. Y'all act like every charter boat of cfa member is the devil.
> 
> You can ask a lot of people on here boat owners and non boat owners about me. I've jumped on several people on this boards boat and helped them learn, plugged some #s in to get them started and caught them some fish.
> 
> I've taken quite a few people off this board on my own vessel as a split expense. Heck just last week I took a group off this board to the garden areas for 100$ a head.
> 
> I'll offer this up to show y'all we are not as evil as y'all think. 3 2cool snapper trips during the charter boat season. 6 people. Split expenses only. Should come out to about 100$ a head. Message me to get on the list. Dates tbd.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
> 
> 
> 
> I think it's time to start a _*UBER*_ service for offshore fishing - why pay these offshore taxi drivers when they are fighting to keep us off the water and steal our fish in the process?
Click to expand...

Your uber service could work if there wasn't a moratorium on charter permits. But I wouldn't recommend taking paying customers into federal waters without them


----------



## hilton

Capt'nDanG said:


> Your uber service could work if there wasn't a moratorium on charter permits. But I wouldn't recommend taking paying customers into federal waters without them


It wouldn't be a charter - we could call it the *"Recreational Anti-Catch Share Fishing Experience"*!

CaptDanG blaming me for this debacle is retarded - you need to understand that it is the corruption of the process by your Environmental Defense Fund and puppet organizations such as CFA and the Gulf of Mexico Reef Fish Shareholders Alliance.

Fish tags are Catch Shares - if fish tags are the answer, then give us a hypothetical situation how they would work - how would they be distributed, how many would there be, would there be a cost involved, etc. It all sounds real nice and all, that is, until you get into the specifics - fish tags are a joke.


----------



## Capt'nDanG

You can go buy a $100k boat and take people fishing free of charge every day if you wanted to. Wouldn't bother me one bit and that's the god honest truth.

And what debacle have I blamed you for? I guess I forgot already.



hilton said:


> Capt'nDanG said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your uber service could work if there wasn't a moratorium on charter permits. But I wouldn't recommend taking paying customers into federal waters without them
> 
> 
> 
> It wouldn't be a charter - we could call it the *"Recreational Anti-Catch Share Fishing Experience"*!
> 
> CaptDanG blaming me for this debacle is retarded - you need to understand that it is the corruption of the process by your Environmental Defense Fund and their puppet organizations such as CFA and the Gulf of Mexico Reef Fish Shareholders Alliance.
Click to expand...


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## trapper67

https://www.facebook.com/CharterFA/


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## hilton

CaptDanG - Sorry - that was offshore fanatic.

I'm all for real solutions, which REQUIRE accurate data, but none of the proposals on the table to date, including Sector Separation, attacked the real problems we are facing, which include lact of viable data from which to make informed decisions - just ideological agendas of privatizing our public trust resources.


----------



## Capt'nDanG

I agree there is a complete lack of data in the recreational fishery. What do you propose to be implemented that will give better data to nmfs? Without tags I don't see a viable solution that everyone would get on board with. How do you get a grasp on the number of participants in the recreational sector? To me that is the first step.



hilton said:


> CaptDanG - Sorry - that was offshore fanatic.
> 
> I'm all for real solutions, which REQUIRE accurate data, but none of the proposals on the table to date, including Sector Separation, attacked the real problems we are facing, which include lact of viable data from which to make informed decisions - just ideological agendas of privatizing our public trust resources.


----------



## hilton

I proposed the OFS Permit Plan in 2010, which was totally ignored.

AL and LA have developed their own data collection programs which are far superior to the feds' data.

If tags are the answer, then please provide the specifics - otherwise, they are just a sound bite.

Here is some interesting Congressional testimony yesterday relating to Guindon;

From a consulting company representative (Brad Gentner, The Gentner Group) giving testimony yesterday at a Senate Committee for Small Business and Entrepreneurship. The dog food snapper are coming back to bite Buddy.​  Recently, on the NatGeo show "Big Fish, Texas," a prominent red snapper commercial fisherman, Buddy Guidon, left 11,000 pounds of red snapper on the deck too long and those fish had to be sold for "dog food." Using the analysis above, those fish would be worth $123,310 dollars to the recreational sector. Buddy sold those fish for only $49,500 and his profit, or economic value, was only $30,250. If those red snapper were caught by recreational fishermen, they would generate four times more value. Instead they ended up as dog food. Why doesnâ€™t Buddy Guidon think enough about the value of red snapper as a food for America to keep those fish from ending up as dog food? 


http://www.sbc.senate.gov/public/?a=Files.Serve&File_id=9FAF9D7E-4F63-4F64-B175-4073F7C169C5


----------



## Jolly Roger

Capt'nDanG said:


> I agree there is a complete lack of data in the recreational fishery. What do you propose to be implemented that will give better data to nmfs? Without tags I don't see a viable solution that everyone would get on board with. How do you get a grasp on the number of participants in the recreational sector? To me that is the first step.


Gulf states already have real time data collection of red snapper, they have proved it for several years and have decades of data to back them up. It is extremly better then NMFS.

Do not understand why you and other CFA captains do not know this, then come on here and claim people like myslef are misinformed. Yall are way behind, seems someone is keeping yall in the dark as to what is going on.



Capt'nDanG said:


> I and many other CFA captains have stood up in front of the council and given public testimony that we don't mind if the recs are managed by the states as long as we are left out of the deal. We like where our future is headed and have worked hard to get where we are.


that is all good and all, but the FACT is CFA has not supported state control. The oppsite as CFA came out against State control and bill H.R.3094.

While you and other CFA might try to put a good face on here on 2cool, simple fact is you are supporting an organization that is doing everything in it's power to block any and all improvements for REC fishermen.


----------



## Capt'nDanG

I just feel like with tags at least nfms will know how many fish are caught in the year... Then they can do their average weight deal to estimate the amount of lbs...

If they are completely over estimating the effort on the rec side then a tag system would solve that problem really quickly...

I would even like to see a federal fishing endorsement added to the fishing license so there is a better idea of who is even fishing offshore.



hilton said:


> I proposed the OFS Permit Plan in 2010, which was totally ignored.
> 
> AL and LA have developed their own data collection programs which are far superior to the feds' data.
> 
> If tags are the answer, then please provide the specifics - otherwise, they are just a sound bite.


----------



## manintheboat

for starters, every boat that fishes for red snapper in federal waters must be permitted. Permits must be renewed annually. That way, the regulators know exactly how many boats are active in the fishery. Along with permit renewal, the boat owner fills out a survey on how many trips taken the previous year, how many fishermen per trip on average, etc. That way, the regulators can assess fishing pressure, which is way more accurate information than anything they have had in the past. Tom Hilton has thrown out a plan in the past that is more detailed than this one, which is just a quick starting point.


----------



## Jolly Roger

manintheboat said:


> f Tom Hilton has thrown out a plan in the past that is more detailed than this one, which is just a quick starting point.


and it was ignored, EVERYTHING the RECs have tried to do to improve our fishery has been fought or ignored.

FEDs have no desire to mange the REC better, they have not made much of an effort to improve there data. Only effort to improve data was only after they were forced to do so, the FED did not count REEF fish on REEFs. That is so Fing stupid it is unreal and here we have CFA claming the FED data is better. FEDs ignore state data, FED ignored Dr Shipps data, FEDs ignored any real data. FEDs are a total failure when it comes to management of the REC fishery. Then we get some clueless CFA captains come on here and say we are misinformed. What a bunch of BS. Only solution is state control, anyone who is against it is not for REC fishermen, period.


----------



## MikeWilson

Pam Anderson (Capt. Andersons) testified at the Senate Small Business & entrepreneurship Committee yesterday on behalf of recreational fishermen. It's a long read but it is a very detailed account of what is going on with environmentalist and our fisheries. Below is an excerpt of her testimony. 

NOAA, EDF, OC, PEW trusts vs recreational anglers. In 2009 when Dr. Jane Lubchenco was head of NOAA fisheries (and former board member of EDF who designed the fishery catch share program), she called a meeting here in DC. In that meeting she directed NOAA's Regional managers and the Chair of the Gulf Council at the time to go back to their regions, see what the objections to catch shares were and fix them. All this at a time the catch share program was being introduced as a stakeholder choice, from the bottom up, that NOAA would not implement unless requested by stakeholders. In addition, EDF operatives boasted at Council meetings that their organization had designated $50 million to promote Catch Shares in the Gulf. 
Being a simple, common-sense type person, I was thinking, 'If it is going to take $50 million to talk us into this plan, it is probably not what we want.' A meeting was called with a group of anglers, Council members and EDF to introduce catch shares to us. I attended the first one in Sarasota, FL. The Council member who was a professor there at New College was very good at moving the meeting participants toward the preferred goal of attempting to convince us all that this would be good for our businesses. The premise was then, as it is now, that if you get onboard with this social engineering project called catch shares, you will be one of the winners. The EDF rep said several times, if you join us you can be one of the winners, and own more than enough shares and even lease them to others at a 400% profit. I asked, who are the others? He said they are the ones that don't have as large a business as we do, without as much catch history. There would be a limited number of 'shares' to go around so many would be left out or have so few shares they would have to close their operation. He went on to say if we wanted, we could just lease shares to others for a profit and not even have to operate a boat any more. That is what many commercial shareholders are doing now. They have basically made sharecroppers out of the smaller commercial businesses. 
(Catch Shares and Sector Separation documents came before the Council and have passed with 95% of stakeholders comments to the Council being 'no, we don't want them'.)



Thank you Pam Anderson.
Full Testimony
http://www.sbc.senate.gov/public/?a=Files.Serve&File_id=9FAF9D7E-4F63-4F64-B175-4073F7C169C5


----------



## saltaholic

MikeWilson said:


> Pam Anderson (Capt. Andersons) testified at the Senate Small Business & entrepreneurship Committee yesterday on behalf of recreational fishermen. It's a long read but it is a very detailed account of what is going on with environmentalist and our fisheries. Below is an excerpt of her testimony.
> 
> NOAA, EDF, OC, PEW trusts vs recreational anglers. In 2009 when Dr. Jane Lubchenco was head of NOAA fisheries (and former board member of EDF who designed the fishery catch share program), she called a meeting here in DC. In that meeting she directed NOAA's Regional managers and the Chair of the Gulf Council at the time to go back to their regions, see what the objections to catch shares were and fix them. All this at a time the catch share program was being introduced as a stakeholder choice, from the bottom up, that NOAA would not implement unless requested by stakeholders. In addition, EDF operatives boasted at Council meetings that their organization had designated $50 million to promote Catch Shares in the Gulf.
> Being a simple, common-sense type person, I was thinking, 'If it is going to take $50 million to talk us into this plan, it is probably not what we want.' A meeting was called with a group of anglers, Council members and EDF to introduce catch shares to us. I attended the first one in Sarasota, FL. The Council member who was a professor there at New College was very good at moving the meeting participants toward the preferred goal of attempting to convince us all that this would be good for our businesses. The premise was then, as it is now, that if you get onboard with this social engineering project called catch shares, you will be one of the winners. The EDF rep said several times, if you join us you can be one of the winners, and own more than enough shares and even lease them to others at a 400% profit. I asked, who are the others? He said they are the ones that don't have as large a business as we do, without as much catch history. There would be a limited number of 'shares' to go around so many would be left out or have so few shares they would have to close their operation. He went on to say if we wanted, we could just lease shares to others for a profit and not even have to operate a boat any more. That is what many commercial shareholders are doing now. They have basically made sharecroppers out of the smaller commercial businesses.
> (Catch Shares and Sector Separation documents came before the Council and have passed with 95% of stakeholders comments to the Council being 'no, we don't want them'.)
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you Pam Anderson.
> Full Testimony
> http://www.sbc.senate.gov/public/?a=Files.Serve&File_id=9FAF9D7E-4F63-4F64-B175-4073F7C169C5


Boom!!!!

Truth exposed


----------



## Limit up

There it is. Capitalism at its worst. A few big winners and a lot of small losers. Bought and paid for.


----------



## Jolly Roger

Limit up said:


> There it is. Capitalism at its worst. A few big winners and a lot of small losers. Bought and paid for.


that my friend is an almost perfect example of Socialism, Government picks the winner and losers.

Not capitalism


----------



## Stumpgrinder

Meanwhile Guindon gets fat on " his" fish and the recreational man gets a 7 day season and no lubricant. 

Anybody doesn't understand the absurdity of this is blind, deaf & dumb. I hope this show rearranges the deck. If this is management, I'm a Japanese kamikaze pilot.


----------



## Limit up

Jolly totally understand ur statement and respect you. What I was getting at calling it capitalism at it worst is any of us could have been a commercial fishermen just like buddy. He has done well for himself. But now like many others in this country have forgotten about everyone else and use there money to influence government to further help themselves. And no I do not in anyway care for him. I despise people like him. they just keep taking and taking and many of them just use the government as a vessel to do so. I think we should all just fly the skull and bones and tell to go to heck.


----------



## Hotrod

The next show should get everyone fired up even more. Looks like he's going to Austin


----------



## Sabine Flounder Pounder

Capt'nDanG said:


> The lawsuit that was filed by the commercial sector was towards noaa because they haven't stopped the recreational sector from over fishing their allocation year after year. The lawsuit resulted in noaa having to put in place the buffer so that they made sure the recreational sector didn't over fish. Since no one has come up with any other viable solution to keep recreational sector from overfishing, thats what it has come down to. If you can figure out a way that the recs won't overfish the allocation then you'll get the buffered allocation back to fish. Simple as that
> 
> If you put the shoe on the other foot, and the recreational sector wasnt overfishing their allocation and the commercial guys continuously overfished theirs, Im pretty sure the recs would want to file a lawsuit as well when it kept them from growing their allocation and snapper season...
> 
> And I am a CFA member but besides that I support the facts. And you guys get your facts from people who dont know all the facts, are speculating, or just flat out spreading misinformation.
> 
> Alot of this show is scripted. It didnt take a rocket scientist to figure out that when buddy went out looking for poaching rec fishermen he didnt even leave the bay. If you know enough about fishing and our area its easy to tell that.


What evidence has the NMFS got that the Recs have ever overfished their quota? As a result of that BS claim and lawsuits, Al. and La. both proved that NMFS over estimated actual catch by 100s times. In what court is the decision not reached by a preponderance of the evidence and not a he said, she said. In 2014 Texas did an intensive dock creek survey during the 9 day season, final results as I recall was 56,000 lbs and we're overfishing? Total BS,


----------



## ftw66

Since it seems that the commercial sector is throwing money at this to protect their interests, who can the recs make a donation to? I'm far from rich, but I'd throw several Benjamin's at it right now, and Hell, I'm in the mosquito fleet.


----------



## saltaholic

ftw66 said:


> Since it seems that the commercial sector is throwing money at this to protect their interests, who can the recs make a donation to? I'm far from rich, but I'd throw several Benjamin's at it right now, and Hell, I'm in the mosquito fleet.


There is still an active lawsuit filed by the FRA (fishing rights alliance)

They are the only standing Rec group I know other than Cca


----------



## Chase This!

Rumors flying around regarding how much Buddy is making off snapper. Talk about insult to injury. 

Recs need someone to unite around. Or hire some lawyers to work on behalf of the recs. I assure you, the recs collectively can crush the comms. Recs pockets are much deeper, collectively.


----------



## saltaholic

Here is the link 
read it they are legit just not allot of Texas support yet but we can change that.......

They still have an active lawsuit against amd40 as well 
http://thefra.org


----------



## Jolly Roger

Limit up said:


> Jolly totally understand ur statement and respect you. What I was getting at calling it capitalism at it worst is any of us could have been a commercial fishermen just like buddy. He has done well for himself. But now like many others in this country have forgotten about everyone else and use there money to influence government to further help themselves. And no I do not in anyway care for him. I despise people like him. they just keep taking and taking and many of them just use the government as a vessel to do so. I think we should all just fly the skull and bones and tell to go to heck.


nothing, and i do mean nothing about any of this is Capitalism.

Government aka "state" picked and choose what commercial fishermen were winners and who were losers. This is Socialism in it's purest form.

I do not think you understand so here is the Definition of Capitalism

capÂ·iÂ·talÂ·ism
[ËˆkapÉ™dlËŒizÉ™m]
NOUN
an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state


----------



## Capt'nDanG

How did they decide which commercial fishermen got what amount of shares?



Jolly Roger said:


> nothing, and i do mean nothing about any of this is Capitalism.
> 
> Government aka "state" picked and choose what commercial fishermen were winners and who were losers. This is Socialism in it's purest form.
> 
> I do not think you understand so here is the Definition of Capitalism
> 
> capÂ·iÂ·talÂ·ism
> [ËˆkapÉ™dlËŒizÉ™m]
> NOUN
> an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state


----------



## Jolly Roger

Capt'nDanG said:


> How did they decide which commercial fishermen got what amount of shares?


you can not be this stupid, this is testimony from yesterday. It has already been posted several times on this thread. Yall CFA guys really are clueless, no wonder yall are getting played. Same thing about to happen to you.....

Pam Anderson (Capt. Andersons) testified at the Senate Small Business & entrepreneurship Committee yesterday on behalf of recreational fishermen. It's a long read but it is a very detailed account of what is going on with environmentalist and our fisheries. Below is an excerpt of her testimony.

NOAA, EDF, OC, PEW trusts vs recreational anglers. In 2009 when Dr. Jane Lubchenco was head of NOAA fisheries (and former board member of EDF who designed the fishery catch share program), she called a meeting here in DC. In that meeting she directed NOAA's Regional managers and the Chair of the Gulf Council at the time to go back to their regions, see what the objections to catch shares were and fix them. All this at a time the catch share program was being introduced as a stakeholder choice, from the bottom up, that NOAA would not implement unless requested by stakeholders. In addition, EDF operatives boasted at Council meetings that their organization had designated $50 million to promote Catch Shares in the Gulf. 
Being a simple, common-sense type person, I was thinking, 'If it is going to take $50 million to talk us into this plan, it is probably not what we want.' A meeting was called with a group of anglers, Council members and EDF to introduce catch shares to us. I attended the first one in Sarasota, FL. The Council member who was a professor there at New College was very good at moving the meeting participants toward the preferred goal of attempting to convince us all that this would be good for our businesses. The premise was then, as it is now, that if you get onboard with this social engineering project called catch shares, you will be one of the winners. The EDF rep said several times, if you join us you can be one of the winners, and own more than enough shares and even lease them to others at a 400% profit. I asked, who are the others? He said they are the ones that don't have as large a business as we do, without as much catch history. There would be a limited number of 'shares' to go around so many would be left out or have so few shares they would have to close their operation. He went on to say if we wanted, we could just lease shares to others for a profit and not even have to operate a boat any more. That is what many commercial shareholders are doing now. They have basically made sharecroppers out of the smaller commercial businesses. 
(Catch Shares and Sector Separation documents came before the Council and have passed with 95% of stakeholders comments to the Council being 'no, we don't want them'.)

Thank you Pam Anderson.
Full Testimony
http://www.sbc.senate.gov/public/?a=...5-4073F7C169C5


----------



## Capt'nDanG

Im just asking you to break it down in simple words for me and everyone else to understand. How did they decide who got what?


----------



## Jolly Roger

Capt'nDanG said:


> Im just asking you to break it down in simple words for me and everyone else to understand. How did they decide who got what?


I can only supply you with the info, can not understand it for you. They are about to do the same thing to you they did with commercial fishermen. You are going to loose, most all Texas charter fleet will loose. A few will win big....

Pam Anderson (Capt. Andersons) testified at the Senate Small Business & entrepreneurship Committee yesterday on behalf of recreational fishermen. It's a long read but it is a very detailed account of what is going on with environmentalist and our fisheries. Below is an excerpt of her testimony.

NOAA, EDF, OC, PEW trusts vs recreational anglers. In 2009 when Dr. Jane Lubchenco was head of NOAA fisheries (and former board member of EDF who designed the fishery catch share program), she called a meeting here in DC. In that meeting she directed NOAA's Regional managers and the Chair of the Gulf Council at the time to go back to their regions, see what the objections to catch shares were and fix them. All this at a time the catch share program was being introduced as a stakeholder choice, from the bottom up, that NOAA would not implement unless requested by stakeholders. In addition, EDF operatives boasted at Council meetings that their organization had designated $50 million to promote Catch Shares in the Gulf. 
Being a simple, common-sense type person, I was thinking, 'If it is going to take $50 million to talk us into this plan, it is probably not what we want.' A meeting was called with a group of anglers, Council members and EDF to introduce catch shares to us. I attended the first one in Sarasota, FL. The Council member who was a professor there at New College was very good at moving the meeting participants toward the preferred goal of attempting to convince us all that this would be good for our businesses. The premise was then, as it is now, that if you get onboard with this social engineering project called catch shares, you will be one of the winners. The EDF rep said several times, if you join us you can be one of the winners, and own more than enough shares and even lease them to others at a 400% profit. I asked, who are the others? He said they are the ones that don't have as large a business as we do, without as much catch history. There would be a limited number of 'shares' to go around so many would be left out or have so few shares they would have to close their operation. He went on to say if we wanted, we could just lease shares to others for a profit and not even have to operate a boat any more. That is what many commercial shareholders are doing now. They have basically made sharecroppers out of the smaller commercial businesses. 
(Catch Shares and Sector Separation documents came before the Council and have passed with 95% of stakeholders comments to the Council being 'no, we don't want them'.)

Thank you Pam Anderson.
Full Testimony
http://www.sbc.senate.gov/public/?a=...5-4073F7C169C5


----------



## Capt'nDanG

Jolly- I just think that YOU don't really know and have to post things that other people have said... I just wanted to know in your thoughts how it happened... But I guess you cant come up with those on your own


----------



## saltaholic

Funny how that testimony is exactly word for word what a few have been saying and predicting on here for years now....... Tin foil??? Lol truth prevails


----------



## Jolly Roger

Capt'nDanG said:


> Jolly- I just think that YOU don't really know and have to post things that other people have said... I just wanted to know in your thoughts how it happened... But I guess you cant come up with those on your own


I posted facts of how it happened. If you do not understand it, not much else I can do for you. The fact it is about to happen to you and other charter captains does not really hurt my feelings. Yall have not been REC friends so if a bunch of yall loose your business not going to bother me. Your fault for not seeing it coming because you have been warned many times over.

My thoughts are about the same as I have posted, the government along with EDF and like groups align themselves with outfits that would help them meet there goals. They did so by influencing how the wording was written by the FEDs so that it was best for the EDF allies. Good chance they penciled wiped the books to make sure it all worked out. Operations that were not on board with the plan were screwed and left out to dry and had to close shop or buy allocation from those operations that played ball with EDF. What it made was what we have now, a few who have it all and most who ave nothing and do all the work.

It is socialism perfect, complete control of a free market by the government using bad science. This is how it happens with the EPA, this is there playbook almost word for word


----------



## Capt'nDanG

umm no



Jolly Roger said:


> I posted facts of how it happened. If you do not understand it, not much else I can do for you. The fact it is about to happen to you and other charter captains does not really hurt my feelings. Yall have not been REC friends so if a bunch of yall loose your business not going to bother me.
> 
> My thoughts are about the same as I have posted, the government along with EDF and like groups align themselves with outfits that would help them meet there goals. They did so by influencing how the wording was written so that it was best for there allies. Good chance they cooked the books to make sure it all worked out. Operations that were noT on board with the plan were screwed and left out to dry and had to close shop or buy allocation from those operations that played ball with EDF.


----------



## Jolly Roger

Capt'nDanG said:


> umm no


Umm YES

you really are naive. Have you read the link? you do realize that is sworn testimony from a commercial captain that was there. Made yesterday, 3/3/2016

You have not figured out that the catch shares they are doing for the charter fleet will have the same effect, smaller operations will be gone or buy from larger operations. You are in for an awakening.

" I asked, who are the others? He said they are the ones that don't have as large a business as we do, without as much catch history. There would be a limited number of 'shares' to go around so many would be left out or have so few shares they would have to close their operation. He went on to say if we wanted, we could just lease shares to others for a profit and not even have to operate a boat any more. That is what many commercial shareholders are doing now. They have basically made sharecroppers out of the smaller commercial businesses. "


----------



## Sabine Flounder Pounder

saltaholic said:


> Boom!!!!
> 
> Truth exposed


 This my friends is from the owner of a marina that operates 27 charterboats, 5 headboats, and 4 diveboats. Take the time to read her whole testimony by clicking on the link provided. I really admire her for having a conscience about screwing over another to get a step up on them. I also admire how she supports state take over of the RS fishery.

On a side note at last council meeting a lot of talk about including more reef fish in the CFH sector along with IFQs and doing away with the sunset rule. The day may come that we private recs may lose access to all reef fish if we can't get state management started, if only RS now.

Oops, refer to page 38 post #376


----------



## Capt'nDanG

so the permits catch history had nothing to do with how many shares of allocation the permit recieved when the commercial sector went into an IFQ system?



Jolly Roger said:


> Umm YES
> 
> you really are naive


----------



## Jolly Roger

Capt'nDanG said:


> so the permits catch history had nothing to do with how many shares of allocation the permit recieved when the commercial sector went into an IFQ system?


why not open bid the allocation? Why gift a public resource to a few?

Why would they cut out so many operations from the chance to buy more allocation. Why would they take away the free market, take away capitalism and turn it into socialism where the government and the people who help write the rules could pick the ones they wanted..... do you find it odd that 95% of the operations voted against this plan yet it still passed? sounds a lot like what RECs are dealing with.

Well you have sworn testimony from YESTERDAY from a captain that was there to the reason why.....

NOAA, EDF, OC, PEW trusts vs recreational anglers. In 2009 when Dr. Jane Lubchenco was head of NOAA fisheries (and former board member of EDF who designed the fishery catch share program), she called a meeting here in DC. In that meeting she directed NOAA's Regional managers and the Chair of the Gulf Council at the time to go back to their regions, see what the objections to catch shares were and fix them. All this at a time the catch share program was being introduced as a stakeholder choice, from the bottom up, that NOAA would not implement unless requested by stakeholders. In addition, EDF operatives boasted at Council meetings that their organization had designated $50 million to promote Catch Shares in the Gulf. 
Being a simple, common-sense type person, I was thinking, 'If it is going to take $50 million to talk us into this plan, it is probably not what we want.' A meeting was called with a group of anglers, Council members and EDF to introduce catch shares to us. I attended the first one in Sarasota, FL. The Council member who was a professor there at New College was very good at moving the meeting participants toward the preferred goal of attempting to convince us all that this would be good for our businesses. The premise was then, as it is now, that if you get onboard with this social engineering project called catch shares, you will be one of the winners. The EDF rep said several times, if you join us you can be one of the winners, and own more than enough shares and even lease them to others at a 400% profit. I asked, who are the others? He said they are the ones that don't have as large a business as we do, without as much catch history. There would be a limited number of 'shares' to go around so many would be left out or have so few shares they would have to close their operation. He went on to say if we wanted, we could just lease shares to others for a profit and not even have to operate a boat any more. That is what many commercial shareholders are doing now. They have basically made sharecroppers out of the smaller commercial businesses. 
(Catch Shares and Sector Separation documents came before the Council and have passed with 95% of stakeholders comments to the Council being 'no, we don't want them'.)

Thank you Pam Anderson.
Full Testimony
http://www.sbc.senate.gov/public/?a=...5-4073F7C169C5


----------



## Capt'nDanG

They delegated quota based on catch history. If the owner of the permit was busting *** and catching fish before the IFQ system then they got rewarded with a percentage based on their yearly landings. If the guy was sitting on his permit and his *** all day he probably didnt do very well... So of course he is going to whine and complain unfair unfair unfair



Jolly Roger said:


> why not open bid the allocation? Why gift a public resource to a few?


----------



## saltaholic

Sabine Flounder Pounder said:


> This my friends is from the owner of a marina that operates 27 charterboats, 5 headboats, and 4 diveboats. Take the time to read her whole testimony by clicking on the link provided. I really admire her for having a conscience about screwing over another to get a step up on them. I also admire how she supports state take over of the RS fishery.
> 
> On a side note at last council meeting a lot of talk about including more reef fish in the CFH sector along with IFQs and doing away with the sunset rule. The day may come that we private recs may lose access to all reef fish if we can't get state management started, if only RS now.
> 
> Oops, refer to page 38 post #376


Yep great testimony gonna have a huge impact......


----------



## trapper67

Capt'nDanG said:


> They delegated quota based on catch history. If the owner of the permit was busting *** and catching fish before the IFQ system then they got rewarded with a percentage based on their yearly landings. If the guy was sitting on his permit and his *** all day he probably didnt do very well... So of course he is going to whine and complain unfair unfair unfair


 read this.............
http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2016/01/kingpins_of_the_gulf_make_mill.html


----------



## MikeWilson

No sense arguing with a CFA member they have their script and have bought into the plan. It's kind of like the Amway scheme except in the Gulf charter fleet. 

Lot of EDF media and political lobbying support behind them. They have following seas right now. I like it when they crow about all the "work" they put in this plan to get it where it is today. 

The "work" is showing up to federal meetings reciting the script. some get to go to D.C. and recite the script. None of it would be any way possible if NOAA hadn't pushed it from the top down through the Gulf Council level.


----------



## Sabine Flounder Pounder

Capt'nDanG said:


> so the permits catch history had nothing to do with how many shares of allocation the permit recieved when the commercial sector went into an IFQ system?


 Compare your catch history with a boat from Alabama and see how you will fare, those guys sill throw you under the bus just like they did us.

Ask yourself where all the important council meetings are held dealing with the CFH fleet.


----------



## trapper67

Of the 348 entities on the list of having some of the allocation, 20 entities hold over 50% of the quantity, with the top 10 people holding 33%. Here are the top 20.

Guindon, Keith Edward* 4.7595
Underwood, Russell Gene* 4.61434
Bottom Line Fish Company Inc* 3.785254
Krebs, David Allen Jr* 3.56589
Rawlings, John Harold Sr* 3.3018
Tampico Inc* 3.211
Fv St Andrew Bay Challenger Inc* 2.8376
Cochrane, William Raymond Ii* 2.8278
Walker Fishing Fleet Inc* 2.5285
Eggart, Brent Jude* 2.2335
Fruidenberg, Mark Allen* 2.11035
Wright, William George Sr* 2.0899
Niquet, Christopher Phillip* 2.0737
Reeder, William Craig* 2.0514
F V Dreamcatcher Inc* 1.92712
Hisler, George William Sr* 1.5191
Sirch, Valerie* 1.5068
A & B Seafood Inc* 1.38554
Burnett, Kenneth Paul Sr* 1.335266
Miglini, Michael Guido* 1.29929


----------



## Capt'nDanG

I don't need to read any of that. I know the ins and outs. You aren't going to show me anything that shocks me or unveil any mystery...



trapper67 said:


> read this.............
> http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2016/01/kingpins_of_the_gulf_make_mill.html


----------



## trapper67

complete list...........

http://sero.nmfs.noaa.gov/operation...formation_act/common_foia/IFQShareholders.htm


----------



## MikeWilson

The ultimate goal is intersector trading. Taking commercial IFQ pounds and fishing it off a charter. Leased commercial pounds will command a higher price on a charter boat. The cost of the leased fish would be passed to the customer.


----------



## saltaholic

Good info- someone needs to post that testimony on THT too and share with the buys to the east of us


----------



## Jolly Roger

Capt'nDanG said:


> They delegated quota based on catch history. If the owner of the permit was busting *** and catching fish before the IFQ system then they got rewarded with a percentage based on their yearly landings. If the guy was sitting on his permit and his *** all day he probably didnt do very well... So of course he is going to whine and complain unfair unfair unfair


Odd that they do not do this with oil and gas, timber, grazing rights, etc... or anything else for that matter.

all of it is open bid, but for some reason a public resource like snapper was gifted to a select few. They were not busting there ***, they got help from EDF to make there books. Simple as that. There are commercial fishermen who caught just as much as everyone else but got screwed. You are naive.



Sabine Flounder Pounder said:


> Compare your catch history with a boat from Alabama and see how you will fare, those guys sill throw you under the bus just like they did us.
> 
> Ask yourself where all the important council meetings are held dealing with the CFH fleet.


he is about to get screwed and does not even know it


----------



## Capt'nDanG

Whether you think what the commercial sector has is right or wrong they are not the reason that the recreational sector doesnt have **** for a season... Those problems are way more vast than that...And taking fish away from the commercial sector wont help either...

Just think, if we get HALF of the total allocation already and have a 10 day season, tell me how long our season would be if we were able to catch ALL of the yearly annual quota... The problem isnt the amount of fish... Its the flucked up management plan at which we are fishing under... So who cares what the hell the commercial sector is doing... That shouldnt even be on the radar...



Jolly Roger said:


> Odd that they do not do this with oil and gas, timber, grazing rights, etc... or anything else for that matter.
> 
> all of it is open bid, but for some reason a public resource like snapper was gifted to a select few.


----------



## trapper67

MikeWilson said:


> The ultimate goal is intersector trading. Taking commercial IFQ pounds and fishing it off a charter. Leased commercial pounds will command a higher price on a charter boat. The cost of the leased fish would be passed to the customer.


 Here is where you can buy shares.....
http://boatsandquota.com/component/mtree/quota/red-snapper-allocation.html?Itemid=


----------



## Chase This!

Dang. TheHullTruth ripping these guys, too. Not just a handful of Texas boys. This show has ****** off the entire gulf region. This show just might be the lightening rod the recs needed. 

I bet the other guys with the quota love Buddy right now. LOL.


----------



## trapper67

Chase This! said:


> Dang. TheHullTruth ripping these guys, too. Not just a handful of Texas boys. This show has ****** off the entire gulf region. This show just might be the lightening rod the recs needed.
> 
> I bet the other guys with the quota love Budda right now. LOL.


 On the Gulf Coast board?


----------



## Sabine Flounder Pounder

trapper67 said:


> read this.............
> http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2016/01/kingpins_of_the_gulf_make_mill.html


Yes and that they did, but your problem is that the others Catch history goes back to when you were crawling on the floor and pooping your diaper.

For Capt Dan


----------



## Jolly Roger

Capt'nDanG said:


> Whether you think what the commercial sector has is right or wrong they are not the reason that the recreational sector doesnt have **** for a season... Those problems are way more vast than that...And taking fish away from the commercial sector wont help either...
> 
> Just think, if we get HALF of the total allocation already and have a 10 day season, tell me how long our season would be if we were able to catch ALL of the yearly annual quota... The problem isnt the amount of fish... Its the flucked up management plan at which we are fishing under... So who cares what the hell the commercial sector is doing... That shouldnt even be on the radar...


Commercial sector was a direct factor in a shorter season for REC fishermen. Do you not understand this. Commercial sector sued and took season away from REC fishermen even when all the data and facts proved the REC were not harvesting over there quota. You are defending them, why?

They did this for there own greed and selfish reason. Same reasons CFA is fighting state control. Everyone knows the REC system is screwed up, so why are YOU supporting an organization that is fighting the state that are trying to fix it?


----------



## Capt'nDanG

Getting ****** off at the commercial fleet isn't going to increase the recreational snapper season... They are just fishing their yearly allocation that they are given. They are completely accountable for their allocation. Until the rec sector gets on page with something that the gooberment can get a hard count on Im afraid that the season isnt going to be getting any better... Like I said a minute ago; even if rec sector had ALL the yearly quota to themselves we would still get a very small season with the management plan that we fish under.



Chase This! said:


> Dang. TheHullTruth ripping these guys, too. Not just a handful of Texas boys. This show has ****** off the entire gulf region. This show just might be the lightening rod the recs needed.
> 
> I bet the other guys with the quota love Budda right now. LOL.


----------



## Jolly Roger

Capt'nDanG said:


> Getting ****** off at the commercial fleet isn't going to increase the recreational snapper season... They are just fishing their yearly allocation that they are given. They are completely accountable for their allocation. Until the rec sector gets on page with something that the gooberment can get a hard count on Im afraid that the season isnt going to be getting any better... Like I said a minute ago; even if rec sector had ALL the yearly quota to themselves we would still get a very small season with the management plan that we fish under.


they are not counting by the FEDs, they are estimating..... and they are estimating WRONG this has been proven.

You blame the RECs, we have been counting, we have proved the FEDs are wrong. IT MADE NO DIFFERENCE.

What lies are you being feed. You CFA guys can not be this stupid to the facts. Do yall just choose to ignore all the data the Gulf states have??? *** yall keep bringing up FED data as if it is correct, it has been proven to be wrong over and over again.


----------



## Capt'nDanG

The commercial lawsuit just expedited the process. Before the lawsuit we were still losing a significant amount of season every year.

Are you guys really so naive that you wanted to hold onto a 40 day season for a couple more years and then still end up where we are now? The industry needs change.

I have stood in front of the council and given testimony that I don't oppose state control as long as the federally permitted charter boats aren't included in it. We have been fighting for a system that will work for our customers. And I believe that we are finally on the right path to that and I want to see it out.

And let me be perfectly clear... Nobody is telling me what to say, do , or believe. I can formulate that for myself.



Jolly Roger said:


> Commercial sector was a direct factor in a shorter season for REC fishermen. Do you not understand this. Commercial sector sued and took season away from REC fishermen even when all the data and facts proved the REC were not harvesting over there quota. You are defending them, why?
> 
> They did this for there own greed and selfish reason. Same reasons CFA is fighting state control. Everyone knows the REC system is screwed up, so why are YOU supporting an organization that is fighting trying to fix it?
> 
> Why are YOU supporting an organization that is fighting tooth and nail against state control. You are doing it because you are misinformed and doing what you are told to do.


----------



## Chase This!

I am pretty naive when it comes to this, but it just defies common sense. How come any Joe with a boat can go catch 10 trout in Galveston Bay, all year, esentially any day. But a fleet MUCH smaller can't go catch 4 snapper in a body of water MUCH bigger with far fewer days. 

Maybe I am way off there, but the Texas recs aren't crushing the snapper population.


----------



## Jolly Roger

Capt'nDanG said:


> The commercial lawsuit just expedited the process. Before the lawsuit we were still losing a significant amount of season every year.
> 
> Are you guys really so naive that you wanted to hold onto a 40 day season for a couple more years and then still end up where we are now? The industry needs change.
> 
> .


A 40 day season is better then 10. And we have a 10 day season due to commercial sector. This is the facts, RECs were able to overfish the FED quota because everyone knew it was wrong and the REC was not over fishing.

The commercial guys sued out of greed, and you are defending them. You have been feed a whole bunch of lies.

Fed data is wrong, has been for a very long time. Good chance the FED data that was used to set allocation for commercial sector was wrong also. FEDs have proven that without a doubt all there data has been incorrect.


----------



## trapper67

Chase This! said:


> I am pretty naive when it comes to this, but it just defies common sense. How come any Joe with a boat can go catch 10 trout in Galveston Bay, all year, esentially any day. But a fleet MUCH smaller can't go catch 4 snapper in a body of water MUCH bigger with far fewer days.
> 
> Maybe I am way off there, but the Texas recs aren't crushing the snapper population.


AMEN


----------



## saltaholic

Jolly Roger said:


> A 40 day season is better then 10. And we have a 10 day season due to commercial sector. This is the facts, RECs were able to overfish the FED quota because everyone knew it was wrong and the REC was not over fishing it.
> 
> The commercial guys sued out of greed, and you are defending them


Great point- but the Feds data and sampling is so bogus they want everyone to believe there are no snapper to begin with.


----------



## Capt'nDanG

I know people that sold out their commercial businesses before they went into an IFQ program because they weren't sure how it was going to pan out... Then after it was implemented they bought their way back in... You CAN buy your way in. Is it cheap? NO. But you don't see them giving away chick-fl-a's for free either do you? NO, because its a successful business.

And I have been a charter permit holder for 10 years. There isn't a catch history associated with the permits.



Sabine Flounder Pounder said:


> Yes and that they did, but your problem is that the others Catch history goes back to when you were crawling on the floor and pooping your diaper.
> 
> For Capt Dan


----------



## roundman

saltaholic said:


> Great point- but the Feds data and sampling is so bogus they want everyone to believe there are no snapper to begin with.


like when most of the rigs at buccaneer fields was taken down and bottom cleaned by shrimp boats then they did a study, hey no fish around here, duh


----------



## Capt'nDanG

And why can bay fishermen north of Matagorda keep 10 trout per day but south of matagorda they can only keep 5 per day. Doesn't make any sense to me either...



Chase This! said:


> I am pretty naive when it comes to this, but it just defies common sense. How come any Joe with a boat can go catch 10 trout in Galveston Bay, all year, esentially any day. But a fleet MUCH smaller can't go catch 4 snapper in a body of water MUCH bigger with far fewer days.
> 
> Maybe I am way off there, but the Texas recs aren't crushing the snapper population.


----------



## Sabine Flounder Pounder

The Recs have been asking for years for better data and the Feds ignored it offering the CFH. a DEAL to split the sector and fight and you guys bought in to save your pocketbook, instead of staying together in this fight for better data. NMFS own data shows the stock growing when we had 6 month seasons with a 4 fish limit.


----------



## Jolly Roger

Capt'nDanG said:


> And why can bay fishermen north of Matagorda keep 10 trout per day but south of matagorda they can only keep 5 per day. Doesn't make any sense to me either...


Because TPWD is good at what they do and make changes to reflect the population of the fish.

unlike the FEDs who use a one size fits all failure management plan.


----------



## MikeWilson

Never forget that CFA supported the commercial lawsuit that shortened the recreational season!

http://www.edf.org/sites/default/files/guindon-amicus-brief-jan_10-2014-filed.pdf

Scott Hickman, Cantrell


----------



## trapper67

And what is it? like 80% of the biomass of snapper is west of the Mississippi? Gee........have they ever counted them over here? I forgot...the fish on rigs and art reefs dont count..in order to count snaps you have to pull a net over sand.......according to nmfs


----------



## MikeWilson

Can I get another Boom?


----------



## saltaholic

MikeWilson said:


> Never forget that CFA supported the commercial lawsuit that shortened the recreational season!
> 
> http://www.edf.org/sites/default/files/guindon-amicus-brief-jan_10-2014-filed.pdf
> 
> Scott Hickman, Cantrell


Boom!!

And CFA wonders why recs don't like them lmao

Would still like to see a list of all the CFA supporters- seems like only a very small percent of the 1250 licensed charter capts support them.


----------



## Capt'nDanG

And yet the can keeps getting kicked down the road until there's no can left.

And your blaming less than 1300 permitted boat owning captains and a handful of commercial fishermen for the reason that the recs cant come up with a better management plan... How many thousands, 100's of thousands, even millions of private boat owning recs are there in the gulf??

I mean I know we are badarsses and all but even those boys in the alamo didnt make it out alive... I mean seriously, cmon... private recs outnumber us 1000:1 and yall cant seem to get anything accomplished... Its because when it all comes down to it, nobody seriously gives a chit enough to do something... Everyone just wants to whine all over the internet and sing woe is me...

Even when the gulf council has meetings in GALVESTON TX, I could count on two hands how many private recs show up to even complain to the PEOPLE THAT ACTUALLY VOTE ON THE ISSUES. To me thats sad....



Jolly Roger said:


> A 40 day season is better then 10. And we have a 10 day season due to commercial sector. This is the facts, RECs were able to overfish the FED quota because everyone knew it was wrong and the REC was not over fishing.
> 
> The commercial guys sued out of greed, and you are defending them. You have been feed a whole bunch of lies.
> 
> Fed data is wrong, has been for a very long time. Good chance the FED data that was used to set allocation for commercial sector was wrong also. FEDs have proven that without a doubt all there data has been incorrect.


----------



## Jolly Roger

Capt'nDanG said:


> And yet the can keeps getting kicked down the road until there's no can left.
> 
> And your blaming less than 1300 permitted boat owning captains and a handful of commercial fishermen for the reason that the recs cant come up with a better management plan... How many thousands, 100's of thousands, even millions of private boat owning recs are there in the gulf??
> 
> I mean I know we are badarsses and all but even those boys in the alamo didnt make it out alive... I mean seriously, cmon... private recs outnumber us 1000:1 and yall cant seem to get anything accomplished... Its because when it all comes down to it, nobody seriously gives a chit enough to do something... Everyone just wants to whine all over the internet and sing woe is me...
> 
> Even when the gulf council has meetings in GALVESTON TX, I could count on two hands how many private recs show up to even complain to the PEOPLE THAT ACTUALLY VOTE ON THE ISSUES. To me thats sad....


RECs have a better management plan, you and CFA are fighting it. We had a longer season, CFA and commercial sued and made it shorter.

odd that REC have a bill in congress to take over the snapper fishery and you know nothing about it. You think all we do is whine on the internet. Once again you surprise me with the amount of ignorance.

You really do not get it, FEDs have not listen to anything the REC side has proposed. They have ignored everything. Going to council meetings is pointless for RECs. We have done it for years and years, nothing changes. The council is bought and paid for, it is a dog and pony show. Has been this way for years, even when people here on 2cool were on it years ago they said the same. There is nothing to be gained from those meetings for RECs, this was proven years ago.


----------



## saltaholic

Capt'nDanG said:


> And yet the can keeps getting kicked down the road until there's no can left.
> 
> And your blaming less than 1300 permitted boat owning captains and a handful of commercial fishermen for the reason that the recs cant come up with a better management plan... How many thousands, 100's of thousands, even millions of private boat owning recs are there in the gulf??
> 
> I mean I know we are badarsses and all but even those boys in the alamo didnt make it out alive... I mean seriously, cmon... private recs outnumber us 1000:1 and yall cant seem to get anything accomplished... Its because when it all comes down to it, nobody seriously gives a chit enough to do something... Everyone just wants to whine all over the internet and sing woe is me...
> 
> Even when the gulf council has meetings in GALVESTON TX, I could count on two hands how many private recs show up to even complain to the PEOPLE THAT ACTUALLY VOTE ON THE ISSUES. To me thats sad....


We shouldn't have to defend and fight for a public resource!!! Especially not while others are getting rich off it!!!

FRA has a lawsuit RIGHT NOW and a bill is in congress..... It's starting now quit denying it

Nuff said


----------



## Capt'nDanG

Im quite aware of whats going on...



Jolly Roger said:


> RECs have a better management plan, you and CFA are fighting it.
> 
> odd that REC have a bill in congress to take over the snapper fishery and you know nothing about it. You think all we do is whine on the internet. Once again you surprise me with the ignorance.


----------



## Chase This!

Wonder if congress watches Big Fish Texas?


----------



## trapper67

How many thousands, 100's of thousands, even millions of private boat owning recs are there in the gulf??
Really????? *** Come ON Man !!!!.....................Millions..............lol My w f t got deleted............


----------



## Sabine Flounder Pounder

Chase This! said:


> Wonder if congress watches Big Fish Texas?


I don't know but I have informed the ones that know of that agree with the Recs on the issues at hand.


----------



## Jolly Roger

Capt'nDanG said:


> Im quite aware of whats going on...


Do not show it, the fact you keep using FED data that even the FEDs have said is wrong kinda points the other direction. Makes you looks clueless.

and you made a good point there are more of Us then there are of you. When we do take over, and we will. Might not go the best for those who have taken from us.

Not to long ago a few gulf states took control from the FEDs of there waters out to nine miles. This was the start, we will keep going.


----------



## Sabine Flounder Pounder

trapper67 said:


> How many thousands, 100's of thousands, even millions of private boat owning recs are there in the gulf??
> Really????? *** Come ON Man !!!!.....................Millions..............lol My w f t got deleted............


Why, sure several hundred out of Sabine alone.Haha
Really 10 would be pushing it.


----------



## Capt'nDanG

Im using the feds flawed data because thats how what we are managed with right now. Have you ever heard of leading questions? Don't be so literal...

And as for your comment" might not go best for those who have taken from us". I ain't scurred.... It is what it is man. I hold no grudges.



Jolly Roger said:


> Do not show it, the fact you keep using FED data that even the FEDs have said is wrong kinda points the other direction. Makes you looks clueless.
> 
> and you made a good point there are more of Us then there are of you. When we do take over, and we will. Might not go the best for those who have taken from us.
> 
> Not to long ago a few gulf states took control from the FEDs of there waters out to nine miles. This was the start, we will keep going.


----------



## saltaholic

Capt'nDanG said:


> And yet the can keeps getting kicked down the road until there's no can left.
> 
> And your blaming less than 1300 permitted boat owning captains and a handful of commercial fishermen for the reason that the recs cant come up with a better management plan... How many thousands, 100's of thousands, even millions of private boat owning recs are there in the gulf??
> 
> I mean I know we are badarsses and all but even those boys in the alamo didnt make it out alive... I mean seriously, cmon... private recs outnumber us 1000:1 and yall cant seem to get anything accomplished... Its because when it all comes down to it, nobody seriously gives a chit enough to do something... Everyone just wants to whine all over the internet and sing woe is me...
> 
> Even when the gulf council has meetings in GALVESTON TX, I could count on two hands how many private recs show up to even complain to the PEOPLE THAT ACTUALLY VOTE ON THE ISSUES. To me thats sad....


1. Don't compare CFA to the Alamo

2. Why bother attending council meetings when it's all already bought and paid for....

3. Millions of rec boats in gulf????


----------



## trapper67

Sabine Flounder Pounder said:


> Why, sure several hundred out of Sabine alone.Haha
> Really 10 would be pushing it.


exactly my point


----------



## Chase This!

saltaholic said:


> FRA has a lawsuit RIGHT NOW and a bill is in congress..... It's starting now quit denying it
> 
> Nuff said


Does anyone know how we can support this?


----------



## saltaholic

saltaholic said:


> Here is the link
> read it they are legit just not allot of Texas support yet but we can change that.......
> 
> They still have an active lawsuit against amd40 as well
> http://thefra.org
> View attachment 2836426


Here this was my earlier post with lawsuit info


----------



## Jolly Roger

Capt'nDanG said:


> Im using the feds flawed data because thats how what we are managed with right now. Have you ever heard of leading questions? Don't be so literal...
> 
> .


that was not the case until the Commercial sued, and you/CFA supported them

RECs were managed better, had longer seasons before CFA and Commercial sued and took season away from the RECS. We had more flexibility, was working toward a better system. You and your friends killed it. You ask why we blame Commercial and CFA for our season, it is because yall are the reason we have a 10 day season last year. You and commercial are why the FEDs can not be flexible.

Now you are saying the FED data is flawed, but then you defend the commercial sector for suing because of the flawed data? can not have it both ways, suing knowing the data was flawed and that the REC were not over fishing there quota was done so only out of greed by both the CFA and commercial.


----------



## Sabine Flounder Pounder

Capt Dan,,,,, What's your cut from Buddy on the catch share trips that you offer year round?


----------



## Sabine Flounder Pounder

Chase This! said:


> Does anyone know how we can support this?


Join FRA.


----------



## Jolly Roger

Sabine Flounder Pounder said:


> Capt Dan,,,,, What's your cut from Buddy on the catch share share that you offer year round?


does Capt Dan do Dude trips?


----------



## Stumpgrinder

Market hunting of ducks &'geese has been outlawed for 100 years.

Why is red snapper different ?


----------



## Sabine Flounder Pounder

Yep check out his 2cool homepage

BUSTED


----------



## saltaholic

Sabine Flounder Pounder said:


> Yep check out his 2cool homepage
> 
> BUSTED


Boom

http://www.gulfoffshorefishing.com/Trip_Info_and_Rates.html

Now we know why he defends the comms and Feds...


----------



## Jolly Roger

saltaholic said:


> Boom
> 
> http://www.gulfoffshorefishing.com/Trip_Info_and_Rates.html
> 
> Now we know why he defends the comms and Feds...


yeah he gets to fish for snapper year around, double dipping.


----------



## Kenner21

Looks like he's advertising state water snapper trips as well. I'd assume that is what he means by beach front. 

6 Hour offshore fishing 
Charter: Trips run the beach 
front,oil rigs, and wrecks 
fishing for king mackerel, 
sharks, cobias, mahi-mahi, 
red snapper, spanish 
mackerel, and tarpon.


----------



## Capt'nDanG

I have 3 boats in my business. A bay fishing boat, a federally permitted charter boat, and soon to be a commercial boat. I am working all legal angles necessary to provide for my family. 

I do not sell state water snapper trips. I run my business legit.


----------



## saltaholic

Kenner21 said:


> Looks like he's advertising state water snapper trips as well. I'd assume that is what he means by beach front.
> 
> 6 Hour offshore fishing
> Charter: Trips run the beach
> front,oil rigs, and wrecks
> fishing for king mackerel,
> sharks, cobias, mahi-mahi,
> red snapper, spanish
> mackerel, and tarpon.


Isn't that a no no for CFA guys to partake in state water fish - morally anyway? I know it's legal on un permitted boats but they stand against it


----------



## saltaholic

Capt'nDanG said:


> I have 3 boats in my business. A bay fishing boat, a federally permitted charter boat, and soon to be a commercial boat. I am working all legal angles necessary to provide for my family.
> 
> I do not sell state water snapper trips. I run my business legit.


So fishing is your only source of income? You don't have a full time job?


----------



## hilton

It seems that Capt Dan Greene wasn't giving full disclosure here - shocker, especially when having dealt with the many liars in this issue over the years from the propaganda machine called The Charter Fishermans Association and Gulf of Mexico Reef Fish Shareholders Alliance.


----------



## Capt'nDanG

I make majority of my income from fishing and I run the majority of my own trips.



saltaholic said:


> So fishing is your only source of income? You don't have a full time job?


----------



## Capt'nDanG

First of all, its "Green" and there is nothing to disclose.



hilton said:


> It seems that Capt Dan Greene wasn't giving full disclosure here - shocker, especially when having dealt with the many liars in this issue from CFA and Gulf of Mexico Reef Fish Shareholders Alliance.


----------



## Kenner21

Capt'nDanG said:


> I have 3 boats in my business. A bay fishing boat, a federally permitted charter boat, and soon to be a commercial boat. I am working all legal angles necessary to provide for my family.
> 
> I do not sell state water snapper trips. I run my business legit.


Advertising beach front trips and listing red snapper as a targeted species led me to believe that, some guys keep one boat non federally permitted for this very reason. Then those same guys get online and whine how they don't have access to the state water fishery.


----------



## hilton

Capt'nDanG said:


> First of all, its "Green" and there is nothing to disclose.


Liar.

you are running commercial catch share fishing experience trips yet failed to disclose that pertinent fact.


----------



## Capt'nDanG

I offer 6 hour trips, on my federally permitted charter boat I fish offshore for snapper, kingfish, and whatever else we can get our hands on in that amount of time. We typically fish around 30-40 miles and get a limit of snapper and some king fish before its time to come in. When snapper season is closed ill run 6 hour trips for king mackerel or down the beachfront shark fishing for 6 hours.

On my bay boat I fish for sharks and tarpon.



Kenner21 said:


> Advertising beach front trips and listing red snapper as a targeted species led me to believe that, some guys keep one boat non federally permitted for this very reason. Then those same guys get online and whine how they don't have access to the state water fishery.


----------



## Capt'nDanG

I have never booked or run one... But am currently setting a boat up to run them. Im not afraid to admit that. Its 100% legal. I operate a legal business



hilton said:


> Liar.
> 
> you are running commercial catch share fishing experience trips yet failed to disclose that pertinent fact.


----------



## Sabine Flounder Pounder

Red snapper is managed 
under an IFQ program. 
Anyone commercially fishing 
for red snapper must possess 
IFQ allocation and follow 
established protoco

So how does a rec fisherman obtain an IFQ allowcation on a dude trip if everyone is required to have it. Guide does not mention boat permit, but ANYONE catching comm RS.


----------



## Capt'nDanG

What??



Sabine Flounder Pounder said:


> Red snapper is managed
> under an IFQ program.
> Anyone commercially fishing
> for red snapper must possess
> IFQ allocation and follow
> established protoco
> So how does a rec fisherman obtain an IFQ allowcation on a dude trip if everyone is required to have it. Guide does not mention boat permit, but ANYONE catching comm RS.


----------



## Sabine Flounder Pounder

Capt'nDanG said:


> What??


STRAIGHT from the comm fishing guideline book provided by the council


----------



## Capt'nDanG

Im not understanding what your question is or allegation is.



Sabine Flounder Pounder said:


> STRAIGHT from the comm fishing guideline book provided by the council


----------



## Sabine Flounder Pounder

And I enjoy going offshore with my son buddy boating with some on here and most of the time can't get away from the RS and can't keep any. The whole thing stinks and Â£â‚¬â‚¬$ me off and you guys fight harder to keep us off the water.


----------



## Sabine Flounder Pounder

Capt'nDanG said:


> Im not understanding what your question is or allegation is.


Ok,,, if I get on ur boat for a catch share experience, how do I obtain IFQ for the fish that I catch After all I'm the one reeling it up.
Kinda like telling GW the gun killed that illegal ???, I was just holding it.


----------



## Capt'nDanG

Commercial fishermen/deckhands don't have to own alloction.

The boat you are fishing on has a commercial permit in which the allocation is tied to.



Sabine Flounder Pounder said:


> Ok,,, if I get on ur boat for a catch share experience, how do I obtain IFQ for the fish that I catch After all I'm the one reeling it up.
> Kinda like telling GW the gun killed that illegal ???, I was just holding it.


----------



## Sabine Flounder Pounder

Surely the IFQ system isn't so flawed that Buddy can handwrite a daily allowcation to whomever he wants. How do you get around the 3hr hail in before landing on a 6 hr trip and the 6am to 6pm unloading rules.


----------



## Capt'nDanG

I can lease fish from any of the shareholders anytime I want. Buddy is not the only commercial fishermen in the gulf that has quota. You can buy a permit yourself and lease fish for your own boat if you wanted to go to those lengths in order to keep red snapper anytime you want.

What do you mean how do you get around a 3 hour hail in? Catch share trips are commercial fishing trips. You have to hail out and hail in like every other commercial boat that goes fishing.



Sabine Flounder Pounder said:


> Surely the IFQ system isn't so flawed that Buddy can handwrite a daily allowcation to whomever he wants. How do you get around the 3hr hail in before landing on a 6 hr trip and the 6am to 6pm unloading rules.


----------



## Sabine Flounder Pounder

Capt'nDanG said:


> Commercial fishermen/deckhands don't have to own alloction.
> 
> The boat you are fishing on has a commercial permit in which the allocation is tied to.


Guidebook says ANYONE nothing about vessel, Sry but that's the way the law is written. It used to say ANYONE had to hold a comm finfish license in order to catch a comm RS, but tha changed with ifq


----------



## Capt'nDanG

Im not really sure what the guideline book that youre reading says. I just know the laws. When a commercial boat goes fishing for red snapper they have deckhands that catch the fish and someone that runs the boat. In some instances the person that runs the boat helps catch the fish. No one on that boat not even the one running it has to own the allocation. The boat w/ permit has a boat account. If there is allocation in the boat account then that amount can be caught and landed.



Sabine Flounder Pounder said:


> Guidebook says ANYONE nothing about vessel, Sry but that's the way the law is written. It used to say ANYONE had to hold a comm finfish license in order to catch a comm RS, but tha changed with ifq


----------



## Sabine Flounder Pounder

Capt'nDanG said:


> I can lease fish from any of the shareholders anytime I want. Buddy is not the only commercial fishermen in the gulf that has quota. You can buy a permit yourself and lease fish for your own boat if you wanted to go to those lengths in order to keep red snapper anytime you want.
> 
> What do you mean how do you get around a 3 hour hail in? Catch share trips are commercial fishing trips. You have to hail out and hail in like every other commercial boat that goes fishing.


Ok so it's a commercial trip is this boat equipped with a VMS as required by law? How do you prove that ur guest are paid employees working for you. That's why you're begining to be disliked you as others will do what ever to line your pocket at the expense of others enjoyment. Its this type of greed that will take you and your kind tumbling down. There is plenty of fish for all to enjoy but greed has caused all of this. Buddy's greed with his tv show has opened the door of knowledge of what's out there and soon it will bite him and you in the area. Before it was all discussed behind closed doors, but now it's on international TV. How do you think congressmen are gonna feel after hearing one thing then seeing another. Even a major player in your group testified on the Recs behalf just yesterday.


----------



## Sabine Flounder Pounder

Capt'nDanG said:


> Im not really sure what the guideline book that youre reading says. I just know the laws. When a commercial boat goes fishing for red snapper they have deckhands that catch the fish and someone that runs the boat. In some instances the person that runs the boat helps catch the fish. No one on that boat not even the one running it has to own the allocation. The boat w/ permit has a boat account. If there is allocation in the boat account then that amount can be caught and landed.


The commercial fishing guide published by th Gulf of Mexico Fishery Management Council. I'm shocked that you didn't already know this after attending meetings with them. Personally I can't see any legality in these dude trips and I bet any federal law enforcement wouldn't either. It seems you guys twist and recite the laws as you wish to fit your needs.


----------



## Capt'nDanG

Before noaa will allow for transfer of a commercial reef permit to a boat you must have a vms on the boat.

why would you have to prove that the people fishing on your boat are employees? I have deckhands that work on my charter boats and they aren't my employees.

Greedy? I'm greedy? Lol i don't even pull 6 figures a year... But I'm greedy...



Sabine Flounder Pounder said:


> Capt'nDanG said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can lease fish from any of the shareholders anytime I want. Buddy is not the only commercial fishermen in the gulf that has quota. You can buy a permit yourself and lease fish for your own boat if you wanted to go to those lengths in order to keep red snapper anytime you want.
> 
> What do you mean how do you get around a 3 hour hail in? Catch share trips are commercial fishing trips. You have to hail out and hail in like every other commercial boat that goes fishing.
> 
> 
> 
> Ok so it's a commercial trip is this boat equipped with a VMS as required by law? How do you prove that ur guest are paid employees working for you. That's why you're begining to be disliked you as others will do what ever to line your pocket at the expense of others enjoyment. Its this type of greed that will take you and your kind tumbling down. There is plenty of fish for all to enjoy but greed has caused all of this. Buddy's greed with his tv show has opened the door of knowledge of what's out there and soon it will bite him and you in the area. Before it was all discussed behind closed doors, but now it's on international TV. How do you think congressmen are gonna feel after hearing one thing then seeing another. Even a major player in your group testified on the Recs behalf just yesterday.
Click to expand...


----------



## Capt'nDanG

I said I know what is required to operate a legal commercial boat. I'm not sure what your book says that's any different.

We talk to federal law enforcement all the time about what is legal and illegal in our industry. I have their cell phone numbers in my phone so that if I have questions I can call them directly to find out the answer and don't have to get my information from misinformed fishermen



Sabine Flounder Pounder said:


> Capt'nDanG said:
> 
> 
> 
> Im not really sure what the guideline book that youre reading says. I just know the laws. When a commercial boat goes fishing for red snapper they have deckhands that catch the fish and someone that runs the boat. In some instances the person that runs the boat helps catch the fish. No one on that boat not even the one running it has to own the allocation. The boat w/ permit has a boat account. If there is allocation in the boat account then that amount can be caught and landed.
> 
> 
> 
> The commercial fishing guide published by th Gulf of Mexico Fishery Management Council. I'm shocked that you didn't already know this after attending meetings with them. Personally I can't see any legality in these dude trips and I bet any federal law enforcement wouldn't either. It seems you guys twist and recite the laws as you wish to fit your needs.
Click to expand...


----------



## Capt'nDanG

I would encourage you to keep in mind that the show big fish Texas is a reality tv show and not a documentary...



Sabine Flounder Pounder said:


> Capt'nDanG said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can lease fish from any of the shareholders anytime I want. Buddy is not the only commercial fishermen in the gulf that has quota. You can buy a permit yourself and lease fish for your own boat if you wanted to go to those lengths in order to keep red snapper anytime you want.
> 
> What do you mean how do you get around a 3 hour hail in? Catch share trips are commercial fishing trips. You have to hail out and hail in like every other commercial boat that goes fishing.
> 
> 
> 
> Ok so it's a commercial trip is this boat equipped with a VMS as required by law? How do you prove that ur guest are paid employees working for you. That's why you're begining to be disliked you as others will do what ever to line your pocket at the expense of others enjoyment. Its this type of greed that will take you and your kind tumbling down. There is plenty of fish for all to enjoy but greed has caused all of this. Buddy's greed with his tv show has opened the door of knowledge of what's out there and soon it will bite him and you in the area. Before it was all discussed behind closed doors, but now it's on international TV. How do you think congressmen are gonna feel after hearing one thing then seeing another. Even a major player in your group testified on the Recs behalf just yesterday.
Click to expand...


----------



## Sabine Flounder Pounder

Capt'nDanG said:


> Before noaa will allow for transfer of a commercial reef permit to a boat you must have a vms on the boat.
> 
> why would you have to prove that the people fishing on your boat are employees? I have deckhands that work on my charter boats and they aren't my employees.
> 
> Greedy? I'm greedy? Lol i don't even pull 6 figures a year... But I'm greedy...


You skirted the question,,, is your boat equipped with VMS? I see no VMS antenna on it. So you are telling me that you forked over $3500+ with a $50 to$85 monthly service package to add to it, so you can run Dude trips?


----------



## Sabine Flounder Pounder

Capt'nDanG said:


> I would encourage you to keep in mind that the show big fish Texas is a reality tv show and not a documentary...


Yes it is in reality dicpicting that the gulf RS and Grouper stocks are doing very well.


----------



## Capt'nDanG

I didn't skirt the question. I said that before NOAA will transfer a permit to a boat there must be a VMS on it simply implying that I will have a VMS on my boat.And before that I stated that I have not run any commercial trips/catch share trips.

I am setting my boat up to commercial fish. Whether it ever has a catch share trip ran on it or not, it will be a 100% legal commercial boat before any commercial fishing is done on it.



Sabine Flounder Pounder said:


> Capt'nDanG said:
> 
> 
> 
> Before noaa will allow for transfer of a commercial reef permit to a boat you must have a vms on the boat.
> 
> why would you have to prove that the people fishing on your boat are employees? I have deckhands that work on my charter boats and they aren't my employees.
> 
> Greedy? I'm greedy? Lol i don't even pull 6 figures a year... But I'm greedy...
> 
> 
> 
> You skirted the question,,, is your boat equipped with VMS? I see no VMS antenna on it. So you are telling me that you forked over $3500+ with a $50 to$85 monthly service package to add to it, so you can run Dude trips?
Click to expand...


----------



## Sabine Flounder Pounder

Capt'nDanG said:


> I didn't skirt the question. I said that before NOAA will transfer a permit to a boat there must be a VMS on it simply implying that I will have a VMS on my boat.And before that I stated that I have not run any commercial trips/catch share trips.
> 
> I am setting my boat up to commercial fish. Whether it ever has a catch share trip ran on it or not, it will be a 100% legal commercial boat before any commercial fishing is done on it.


Earlier you stated that you could lease quota from anyone that had it, taking Buddy out of the equation, how do you suppose to furnish your guest a receipt for these out of season snapper if you're not licensed to sell fish? Kinda looks like Buddy has you by the gonads on this idea.


----------



## Capt'nDanG

Thanks for being concerned but that's not my problem. Thats between the customers and the fish house where they purchase their fish from. I just go catch commercial fish when I'm told I have an order.


----------



## hilton

Capt'nDanG said:


> Thanks for being concerned but that's not my problem. Thats between the customers and the fish house where they purchase their fish from. I just go catch commercial fish when I'm told I have an order.


So if the ref fishermen on your charter are paying Guindon $16/pound for whole snapper, how much is Guindon paying you?


----------



## Lostinpecos

Customers on a catch share experience considered an employee of independent contractor? 

This is not a customer going to an amusement park although it has been played out as one.
Please correct me if I have been misinformed so others can understand. Commercial Catch share experience trip/dude trip:

You have a customer that prepays for a commercial fishing trip to the commerical permitted RS captain. The captain pays a lease to catch RS for that trip from people like Buddy.
You have the paying customer/s , captain's deckhands and captain catching commercial fish to fulfill the leased allocation/quota.
At the end of the trip the captain retains whatever the customer paid for the trip plus money a fish house buys for this allocation.

Captain pays his employed staff.

Shared experience customer then buys their portion of red snapper allocation at the fish house at market price.


----------



## Chase This!

Dude trips. What a racket. I bet a lawyer could have a field day with how these work. 









































Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Momma's Worry

Sabine Flounder Pounder said:


> What evidence has the NMFS got that the Recs have ever overfished their quota? As a result of that BS claim and lawsuits, Al. and La. both proved that NMFS over estimated actual catch by 100s times. In what court is the decision not reached by a preponderance of the evidence and not a he said, she said. In 2014 Texas did an intensive dock creek survey during the 9 day season, final results as I recall was 56,000 lbs and we're overfishing? Total BS,


BG/KG can catch that in less than 9 days with one boat .....according to them


----------



## Lostinpecos

New business plan:
Let's call it the shared Car Wash Experience. Customer pays me so I can pay my spouse if you can wash your car down our public street. Of course I will need to bribe my wife for the short term lease for her self proclaimed property. once I get done supervising my customers to clean their car and other cars there were done, I'll have my spouse check it over and you can pay market price for the service to my wife. Of course you can pay for other cars that were washed as well :headknock

Our gulf and our snapper is a public resource. They inherently belongs to every American, not just recreational fishermen or the select few.


----------



## hilton

Those people posing in those pics catching snapper when others are prohibited from doing the same should be ashamed.


----------



## manintheboat

Another traitor captain to add to the list of those who will never see a dime of mine or anybody I know.


----------



## Lostinpecos

I am so angry I can't see or think straight anymore.


----------



## saltaholic

manintheboat said:


> Another traitor captain to add to the list of those who will never see a dime of mine or anybody I know.


Exactly - now if we could get the full list of them


----------



## roundman

Sabine Flounder Pounder said:


> Ok so it's a commercial trip is this boat equipped with a VMS as required by law? How do you prove that ur guest are paid employees working for you. That's why you're begining to be disliked you as others will do what ever to line your pocket at the expense of others enjoyment. Its this type of greed that will take you and your kind tumbling down. There is plenty of fish for all to enjoy but greed has caused all of this. Buddy's greed with his tv show has opened the door of knowledge of what's out there and soon it will bite him and you in the area. Before it was all discussed behind closed doors, but now it's on international TV. How do you think congressmen are gonna feel after hearing one thing then seeing another. Even a major player in your group testified on the Recs behalf just yesterday.


from gdn tuesdays report ;

*Galveston Party Boats* made an 8-hour fishing trip Sunday and returned with a catch consisting of seven spadefish, three triggerfish and one each whiting, piggy perch and tomtate. Also mentioned in the report was there was no shortage of red fish and large red snapper; however, neither species of fish can be retained in federal waters.


----------



## Sabine Flounder Pounder

saltaholic said:


> Exactly - now if we could get the full list of them


After a little looking on facebook, I ran across several others doing it but couldn't find captain names attached


----------



## roundman

Spring break catch share fishing experiences. Let's go fishing!









http://www.facebook.com/pages/Circle-H-Outfitters-and-Charters/338737372387

We are excited to offer this experience to you as an opportunity to catch Red Snapper year around. We will be using the same equipment (rods, reels, tackle, and bait) that you would normally use; however,you are not paying us to take you fishing.
http://www.thefishinaddiction.com/galveston-red-snapper-fishing

http://www.thefishinaddiction.com/galveston-fishing-charters


----------



## hilton

If they are not paying them to take them fishing, then why are they taking them fishing? The recreational fishermen on these trips are the ones actually catching the fish on rod and reel, just like a charter. It's a charter, they just can't call it a charter.

Aren't there any attorneys on this board that can see that this is a sham that needs to be stopped?


----------



## roundman

hilton said:


> If they are not paying them to take them fishing, then why are they taking them fishing?


just nice guys i guess


----------



## ftw66

Capt'nDanG said:


> I don't need to read any of that. I know the ins and outs. You aren't going to show me anything that shocks me or unveil any mystery...


You can't fix stupid.


----------



## Sabine Flounder Pounder

Capt'nDanG said:


> I said I know what is required to operate a legal commercial boat. I'm not sure what your book says that's any different.
> 
> We talk to federal law enforcement all the time about what is legal and illegal in our industry. I have their cell phone numbers in my phone so that if I have questions I can call them directly to find out the answer and don't have to get my information from misinformed fishermen


I have a phone also and on it I can pull up the printed commercial fishing guide and not have to rely on misinformed fishermen but read straight from the book.


----------



## Momma's Worry

hilton said:


> If they are not paying them to take them fishing, then why are they taking them fishing? The recreational fishermen on these trips are the ones actually catching the fish on rod and reel, just like a charter. It's a charter, they just can't call it a charter.
> 
> I guess when a market is discovered($ back door loop hole$),someone will find a way to take advantage and exploit it .....its just a paper shuffle...... BG said in his show "the cut throat world of commercial fishing"


----------



## hilton

Obviously there are some things that are illegal for them to do, such as take recreational fishermen fishing, yet that is exactly what they are doing. It's really indicative of what's wrong with the current system.

"Thank you for your interest in the Red Snapper Catch Share fishing experience!
*To clarify, this is not a fishing trip,* but rather an opportunity for groups to learn about harvesting Red Snapper under the Individual Fishing Quota (IFQ) program. We are excited to offer this experience to you as an opportunity to catch Red Snapper year around. We will be using the same equipment (rods, reels, tackle, and bait) that you would normally use;_* however,you are not paying us to take you fishing. *_










Additionally, you are not allowed to tip the personnel. You can; however, purchase your fish from the unloading facility at the conclusion of the trip."

_*If the recreational fishermen aren't paying them to take them fishing, then why is Cantrell taking them fishing?

Why the need to specifically state that they aren't taking them fishing if it's perfectly legal?

On one hand Cantrell states he is excited **to "offer this experience to you as an opportunity to catch Red Snapper year around" but then says "*__*you are not paying us to take you fishing".

*_It's absurd._*
*_


----------



## tngbmt

> however,you are not paying us to take you fishing.


free educational trip, we catch, they keep the fish to fill their quota? 
sounds like a good deal.


----------



## trapper67

Check out share holders alliance or katies seafood page on face book...........they bought in a 261 lb and a 336 lb warsaw...........the fish are headed to Canada....here is one link
https://www.facebook.com/katiesseafoodmarket/


----------



## trapper67

*Pic*

Pic


----------



## trapper67

i guess one per day per vessel does not apply to them.......................


----------



## Kenner21

Nothing eats better than a 200-300 pound warsaw heh


----------



## trapper67

Kenner21 said:


> Nothing eats better than a 200-300 pound warsaw heh


LOL............gotta wonder how many tons of meow mix/special kitty it will be mixed with?????


----------



## Kenner21

trapper67 said:


> LOL............gotta wonder how many tons of meow mix/special kitty it will be mixed with?????


Grouper for cat food, red snapper for dog food  True stewards of the resource.


----------



## roundman

guess theres no comm. limit for warsaw?


----------



## Sabine Flounder Pounder

roundman said:


> guess theres no comm. limit for warsaw?


Nope not as long as they have quota for it.


----------



## Get'n Jiggy

This makes me so sick I'm bout to throw up


----------



## Get'n Jiggy

I'll take one for the team... 

Where is his boat at?


----------



## hookN

Get'n Jiggy said:


> This makes me so sick I'm bout to throw up


make sure you brush your teeth after that !!! :rotfl:


----------



## trapper67

Get'n Jiggy said:


> I'll take one for the team...
> 
> Where is his boat at?


 They are raping the Gulf out of Galveston................Hookn W T F ????


----------



## Jolly Roger

I understand where Capt Green is coming from, he is protecting his own self interest. If he has done as he has claimed and stood in front of the gulf council and said he was in favor of state control of the REC fishery then he should have no problem going in front of congress doing the same. I will pay for everything, air, room, etc... 


what say you


----------



## wet dreams

Watched my first episode of this a$$wipe going offshore to CATCH Poachers stealing HIS fish, talking about how they HAD to help rebuild the fishery.....JEEZ


----------



## Stumpgrinder

wet dreams said:


> Watched my first episode of this a$$wipe going offshore to CATCH Poachers stealing HIS fish, talking about how they HAD to help rebuild the fishery.....JEEZ


My sentiments exactly. Hypocrisy on steroids.

Rebuild ? Really.


----------



## Momma's Worry

can someone find Buddy's/Katies or anyone associated with his operation Parks and Wildlife record ?...let's see how many offenses and for what.....throwing it out on national TV surly he /they do not have any ............


----------



## hilton

From a former TPWD game warden; 
"...check his books the way they did at Liberty fish house in Galveston back in the 90's.
Does the name Marion Dusech ring a bell?"

That woud be a good place to start - do a FOIA request from TPWD regarding above and Buddy Guindon.


----------



## Snookered

hilton said:


> Obviously there are some things that are illegal for them to do, such as take recreational fishermen fishing, yet that is exactly what they are doing. It's really indicative of what's wrong with the current system.
> 
> "Thank you for your interest in the Red Snapper Catch Share fishing experience!
> *To clarify, this is not a fishing trip,* but rather an opportunity for groups to learn about harvesting Red Snapper under the Individual Fishing Quota (IFQ) program. We are excited to offer this experience to you as an opportunity to catch Red Snapper year around. We will be using the same equipment (rods, reels, tackle, and bait) that you would normally use;_* however,you are not paying us to take you fishing. *_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Additionally, you are not allowed to tip the personnel. You can; however, purchase your fish from the unloading facility at the conclusion of the trip."
> 
> _*If the recreational fishermen aren't paying them to take them fishing, then why is Cantrell taking them fishing?
> 
> Why the need to specifically state that they aren't taking them fishing if it's perfectly legal?
> 
> On one hand Cantrell states he is excited **to "offer this experience to you as an opportunity to catch Red Snapper year around" but then says "*__*you are not paying us to take you fishing".
> 
> *_It's absurd._*
> *_


 right...so I guess the question is, how much is the fish house kicking back to the IFQ captain for gas and bait? of course it's buried in the quota lease price, of which those records are private and NOAA doesn't get to see that data....

THAT'S where this needs to get cut off at the knees: need a proposal to the Council to make those numbers known....

Government in the sunshine, baby.....lets see it....
snookered


----------



## Stumpgrinder

*"however,you are not paying us to take you fishing."*

utter and complete horse droppings . it would offend me to be a "customer" of the type of person that would try and run a mental train on me such as this .


----------



## saltaholic

Jolly Roger said:


> I can only supply you with the info, can not understand it for you. They are about to do the same thing to you they did with commercial fishermen. You are going to loose, most all Texas charter fleet will loose. A few will win big....
> 
> Pam Anderson (Capt. Andersons) testified at the Senate Small Business & entrepreneurship Committee yesterday on behalf of recreational fishermen. It's a long read but it is a very detailed account of what is going on with environmentalist and our fisheries. Below is an excerpt of her testimony.
> 
> NOAA, EDF, OC, PEW trusts vs recreational anglers. In 2009 when Dr. Jane Lubchenco was head of NOAA fisheries (and former board member of EDF who designed the fishery catch share program), she called a meeting here in DC. In that meeting she directed NOAA's Regional managers and the Chair of the Gulf Council at the time to go back to their regions, see what the objections to catch shares were and fix them. All this at a time the catch share program was being introduced as a stakeholder choice, from the bottom up, that NOAA would not implement unless requested by stakeholders. In addition, EDF operatives boasted at Council meetings that their organization had designated $50 million to promote Catch Shares in the Gulf.
> Being a simple, common-sense type person, I was thinking, 'If it is going to take $50 million to talk us into this plan, it is probably not what we want.' A meeting was called with a group of anglers, Council members and EDF to introduce catch shares to us. I attended the first one in Sarasota, FL. The Council member who was a professor there at New College was very good at moving the meeting participants toward the preferred goal of attempting to convince us all that this would be good for our businesses. The premise was then, as it is now, that if you get onboard with this social engineering project called catch shares, you will be one of the winners. The EDF rep said several times, if you join us you can be one of the winners, and own more than enough shares and even lease them to others at a 400% profit. I asked, who are the others? He said they are the ones that don't have as large a business as we do, without as much catch history. There would be a limited number of 'shares' to go around so many would be left out or have so few shares they would have to close their operation. He went on to say if we wanted, we could just lease shares to others for a profit and not even have to operate a boat any more. That is what many commercial shareholders are doing now. They have basically made sharecroppers out of the smaller commercial businesses.
> (Catch Shares and Sector Separation documents came before the Council and have passed with 95% of stakeholders comments to the Council being 'no, we don't want them'.)
> 
> Thank you Pam Anderson.
> Full Testimony
> http://www.sbc.senate.gov/public/?a=...5-4073F7C169C5


This testimony could be huge......

Read it all, it proves allot of what 2coolers have said is TRUE and what allot of others have said to cover this up is all LIES.....

It's crazy how bad some lied and mocked others even made personal attacks to cover this.


----------



## Sabine Flounder Pounder

What could we do to get a referendum on the ballot to classify Red Snapper as a gamefish in Texas? If the stock can't support a decent season the commercial fishing for them in Texas should be halted for Federally managed Red Snapper.


----------



## piratelight

trapper67 said:


> Of the 348 entities on the list of having some of the allocation, 20 entities hold over 50% of the quantity, with the top 10 people holding 33%. Here are the top 20.
> 
> Guindon, Keith Edward* 4.7595
> Underwood, Russell Gene* 4.61434
> Bottom Line Fish Company Inc* 3.785254
> Krebs, David Allen Jr* 3.56589
> Rawlings, John Harold Sr* 3.3018
> Tampico Inc* 3.211
> Fv St Andrew Bay Challenger Inc* 2.8376
> Cochrane, William Raymond Ii* 2.8278
> Walker Fishing Fleet Inc* 2.5285
> Eggart, Brent Jude* 2.2335
> Fruidenberg, Mark Allen* 2.11035
> Wright, William George Sr* 2.0899
> Niquet, Christopher Phillip* 2.0737
> Reeder, William Craig* 2.0514
> F V Dreamcatcher Inc* 1.92712
> Hisler, George William Sr* 1.5191
> Sirch, Valerie* 1.5068
> A & B Seafood Inc* 1.38554
> Burnett, Kenneth Paul Sr* 1.335266
> Miglini, Michael Guido* 1.29929


#2 guy sounds like quite a conservationist. I wonder what our fines would be if we had 96 (that is ninety six) little baby snaps on board. I'm betting it would be more than 350$!

http://www.houmatoday.com/article/20031115/NEWS/311150306?tc=ar


----------



## Chase This!

piratelight said:


> #2 guy sounds like quite a conservationist. I wonder what our fines would be if we had 96 (that is ninety six) little baby snaps on board. I'm betting it would be more than 350$!
> 
> http://www.houmatoday.com/article/20031115/NEWS/311150306?tc=ar


Wow!!!!!!!

But but but these guys are trying to rebuild the fishery.


----------



## piratelight

Dude we would be under the jail. 96!!!!! w t f


----------



## Chase This!

They should strip him of his seven figures ($$$$) worth of quota he's been given. Or better yet, shut down all commercial red snapper.


----------



## saltaholic

Game fish status

Seriously tho state management is what we need asap


----------



## piratelight

http://www.gc.noaa.gov/documents/2012/2012_ALJ_Niquet_ocr.pdf

heres another in the top 10


----------



## saltaholic

piratelight said:


> http://www.gc.noaa.gov/documents/2012/2012_ALJ_Niquet_ocr.pdf
> 
> heres another in the top 10


$3500 fine for 3,000 pounds of grouper illegally caught?!!!! W T F

System is broke


----------



## Jolly Roger

REC fishermen have been trying to work within the FED system, so far everything they have suggested or brought to the table has been ignored, fought, sued, etc.... At this point I feel it is either state management of the red snapper, and other species of fish. 

or REC anglers go like we have done before and scorth earth strategy. Make Red Snapper, trigger fish, Amber Jacks, many species of grouper, etc.. all game fish. REC have almost no season on them, and the season we do have only keeps getting smaller. REC have nothing to loose, we have already lost our season so hit them where it hurts. Why should REC's care if it puts Commercial and charter captains out of business, they have not cared about REC season. In fact they both have fought to take season away from RECs.

This show is nothing more then a rub in the face that commercial can go out and catch 1000000s of pounds of fish while RECs can keep nothing. F'em if state management does not pass, make them all game fish.


----------



## saltaholic

Great to see they are killing small grouper too!!! W T F

The visitor comments on Katie's Facebook is great! Lots of bashing and a link to this thread lmao


----------



## Mako-Wish

saltaholic said:


> Great to see they are killing small grouper too!!! W T F
> 
> The visitor comments on Katie's Facebook is great! Lots of bashing and a link to this thread lmao


I just contributed. Ill see how long before it gets taken down.

https://www.facebook.com/katiesseafoodmarket/posts_to_page/


----------



## Sabine Flounder Pounder

Mako-Wish said:


> I just contributed. Ill see how long before it gets taken down.
> 
> http://www.facebook.com/katiesseafoodmarket/posts_to_page/


I did too, shouldn't we all?


----------



## Kenner21

I left them an honest rating , I doubt it Makes it more than 20 mins


----------



## saltaholic

Kenner21 said:


> I left them an honest rating , I doubt it Makes it more than 20 mins


They can't remove ratings- only visitor posts can be removed. Same with Google/trip advisor/yahoo etc people leave bad reviews and they stay forever. Lol


----------



## Kenner21

saltaholic said:


> They can't remove ratings- only visitor posts can be removed. Same with Google/trip advisor/yahoo etc people leave bad reviews and they stay forever. Lol


Good deal , hopefully they get a few more reviews that knock that five star rating down.


----------



## Jolly Roger

how does someone leave a rating?


----------



## Kenner21

https://m.facebook.com/katiesseafoodmarket/reviews?refid=17

You should be able to click on the amount of stars here and leave your review. I think this is correct but can't be 100 percent sure because I already left a review.


----------



## Kylie

one of their goalies stated that there were something like 17.6 millon rec boats. what a *********** joke. i knew the snapper fishery was in shambles, but this is absolutely ridiculous and disgusting.


----------



## Pecos

Get a rope.....

PECOS


----------



## mrsh978

One way to publish this would be to place billboard (s) near business with the violations - I'd pay to do it.


----------



## Never easy

mrsh978 said:


> One way to publish this would be to place billboard (s) near business with the violations - I'd pay to do it.


 I would be happy to throw some cash in as well!


----------



## RSN

There are several commercial fishermen in Galveston who really are great guys that are also recreational fishermen themselves. But this Guindon went on international TV and blamed recreational fishermen for destroying the fishery. His show is goddamn terrible, it's a crappy version of duck dynasty. They say on the show that Hans is the best captain in the gulf...LOL. Anyone would be good at grouper fishing if given a longline system. He sure isn't very mechanically inclined for being the best captain in the gulf either.


----------



## RSN

Nat Geo should have given the show to Brett Holden. Whether you like him or not, it would have been fun to see him highlight the prolific swordfishery/billfishery that we have here in Texas


----------



## Ernest

Game fish status at the state level will not prevent the commercial harvest of red snapper in Federal waters. 

Just like king mackerel is a Texas gamefish, but they are piled up like cord wood at your local Fiesta.


----------



## Get'n Jiggy

It's truly rec vs commercial... 

These soccer moms posting 5star rating on FB have no clue about this world and just want to buy seafood. 

99% of the people have no clue where it comes from or how it's obtained 

The 'Sheep' society make me sick. They are the enemy too


----------



## Momma's Worry

Sabine Flounder Pounder said:


> What could we do to get a referendum on the ballot to classify Red Snapper as a gamefish in Texas? If the stock can't support a decent season the commercial fishing for them in Texas should be halted for Federally managed Red Snapper.


our Governor Gregg Abbot knows all about the commercial vs Rec issue in Texas....looks to me he took the comm side ....check the photo op's with BG..
landings can be prohibited to even the not fair playing field ....we can't fish they can't land...La threatened it....till we get state control of the fishery


----------



## Momma's Worry

Sabine Flounder Pounder said:


> I did too, shouldn't we all?


all 2Coolers...get busy leaving comments on their face page....I did


----------



## sotexhookset

mrsh978 said:


> One way to publish this would be to place billboard (s) near business with the violations - I'd pay to do it.





Never easy said:


> I would be happy to throw some cash in as well!


I'd throw in here and I'm not even an offshore aficionado, maybe it's just the right way to bring attention to this pos if this csucker is calling rec's thiefs. Not a good move. That sorry mfr does not own any fish just because he slicks some dirty local politicians pockets. I've watched that train wreck of a show twice and it's a joke. I have a good buddy and fellow 2cooler that works for one of the big billboard lease/build companies in the State. If someone with a lot more info, is already involved in this "disagreement" and localized to the Galveston area gets the logistics and game plan together, I'm in to contribute a few bucks toward a sign lease. He's essentially calling all rec fisherman a bunch of outlaws and poachers and that is verrrry uncool.


----------



## Lostinpecos

Just out of curiosity, did red snapper / lb gone up over the dwindling years of Recreational fishing? 

Someone should start a gofundme page to do just that!


----------



## saltaholic

A billboard would be great!! I'm in to contribute $$


----------



## WestBayRedfish

Im in to contribute $$$ to operation bilboard blast.


----------



## trapper67

The negative comments are being deleted on Katies FB........


----------



## Momma's Worry

trapper67 said:


> The negative comments are being deleted on Katies FB........


well, we will just have to keep up.....LOL


----------



## ToddyTrout

I just reposted a comment that I made on their FB page and shared it on my FB page. I don't think they can delete it from my FB page!


----------



## Kenner21

trapper67 said:


> The negative comments are being deleted on Katies FB........


Looks like the reviews are there to stay or at least they haven't found a way to delete them yet.


----------



## FREON

Kenner21 said:


> Good deal , hopefully they get a few more reviews that knock that five star rating down.


down to 4.5 now.....keep it up people!!!


----------



## Chase This!

4.4


----------



## Chase This!

Only 17 people have given 1 star reviews. Figured we have a few more than that angry about this.


----------



## roundman

ohh boy, they posting this up as a response https://www.edf.org/blog/2015/03/20/hbos-vice-takes-hard-hitting-look-overfishing


----------



## saltaholic

roundman said:


> ohh boy, they posting this up as a response https://www.edf.org/blog/2015/03/20/hbos-vice-takes-hard-hitting-look-overfishing


Nothing but more bs propaganda that is paid for and based on completely false data


----------



## hilton

Just goes to show that the NatGeo show was nothing more than an infomercial for Catch Shares. These idiots have long claimed responsibility of the rebound of snapper being due to Catch Shares when in reality that's a false statement.


----------



## Chase This!

4.3


----------



## redfish203

One of the guys in Tiki got these stickers made up.


----------



## trapper67

still at 4.3...........need a social media blitz here


----------



## Chase This!

I'm thinking the rec sector will have it in the 3's before 8pm.


----------



## hilton

Give reviews of Katie's Seafood on Yelp - that can't delete them. These jokers always like to control the message, deleting the truth and inserting propaganda.


----------



## billyc333

hilton said:


> Give reviews of Katie's Seafood on Yelp - that can't delete them. These jokers always like to control the message, deleting the truth and inserting propaganda.


Tom,
Not a good idea.
Yelp is for reviews. Not political rants.
I double dog dare you to join Yelp and let us "review" Real-Time Navigator.
I see you have already posted a rant on Yelp.
Looks like evidence for a lawsuit to me.
LMAO


----------



## Get'n Jiggy

25- 1 star reviews 

my duty to find this guy's boat! 

scuba gear is on standby


----------



## hilton

billyc333 said:


> Tom,
> Not a good idea.
> Yelp is for reviews. Not political rants.
> I double dog dare you to join Yelp and let us "review" Real-Time Navigator.
> I see you have already posted a rant on Yelp.
> Looks like evidence for a lawsuit to me.
> LMAO


Just one of many negative reviews by many people on Yelp and elsewhere. It's the truth, and the public deserves to know who they are dealing with.


----------



## billyc333

hilton said:


> Just one of many negative reviews by many people on Yelp and elsewhere. It's the truth, and the public deserves to know who they are dealing with.


I'm looking forward to your listing on Yelp.
Please let everyone know when Real-Time Navigator is available for a "review".

Chicken?


----------



## Cabollero

A friend of a friend heard a bunch of orphan's and war vets got ciguatera from there. Just sayin.


----------



## Chase This!

billyc333 said:


> I'm looking forward to your listing on Yelp.
> Please let everyone know when Real-Time Navigator is available for a "review".
> 
> Chicken?


I'll review it right now. It's awesome. Won us a lot of money. And a lot of other people money. I don't go fishing without checking Hiltons.

Been a while since you posted. This should get good.


----------



## trapper67

He has been posting on the Crossfire/Fisheries Board


----------



## billyc333

Chase This! said:


> I'll review it right now. It's awesome. Won us a lot of money. And a lot of other people money. I don't go fishing without checking Hiltons.
> 
> Been a while since you posted. This should get good.


Tom must join Yelp in order for people to review.
And, since he knows he will get slammed he won't join.


----------



## billyc333

Cabollero said:


> A friend of a friend heard a bunch of orphan's and war vets got ciguatera from there. Just sayin.


Are you sure that is it's not a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend?
LMAO!!!


----------



## Chase This!

These people seem to be really informed. LOL. Seven figure "mom and pop" and recs are "misinformed a holes" over fishing the snapper.

You can't make this stuff up. Haha.


















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Cabollero

billyc333 said:


> Are you sure that is it's not a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend?
> LMAO!!!


Perhaps sarcasm isn't your thing.


----------



## trapper67

That Billy R Patton is going OFF on everyone's 1 star comments...................


----------



## Lucasshane

4.3


----------



## saltaholic

Reviews although hilarious will get us no where - someone needs to get organized and find a way to gain publicity

Call FRA and see if we can work with them here locally

Maybe one of the Facebook guys here can share this thread with the FRA ? Would be nice to involve them and work with them in Texas they still have a lawsuit against amd40 due in court next week!!!!!


----------



## Cabollero

Fish market customers don't give a flying you know what about fisheries management. You need to fight fight fire with fire. Use their method, fabricated data, i.e. Report poor service and food poisoning.


----------



## chuck richey

The Patton family must be relatives of Billy.


----------



## Sabine Flounder Pounder

billyc333 said:


> Are you sure that is it's not a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend?
> LMAO!!!


Woman from Bmt. has a suit filed right now against Stingaee and Katies due to cigautella from Grouper served at Stingaree,provided by Katies.


----------



## billyc333

Cabollero said:


> Fish market customers don't give a flying you know what about fisheries management. You need to fight fight fire with fire. Use their method, fabricated data, i.e. Report poor service and food poisoning.


You are asking for false reviews.
I am forwarding this the Yelp.
Thanks


----------



## Chase This!

LoL










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## trapper67

Isn't billyc333 the capt that came in 10,000 lb short on one of the episodes?


----------



## Cabollero

Are you going to tell my mom too? I hope they don't throw me in Yelp jail.


----------



## hookN

this has gotten moronically stupid , what a waste of bandwidth....ya'll need to go on a rec poachers patrol LOL


----------



## Ed

trapper67 said:


> Isn't billyc333 the capt that came in 10,000 lb short on one of the episodes?


No


----------



## hilton

He's a commercial fishermen who didn't play by the rules years ago.


----------



## trapper67

My bad........sorry


----------



## billyc333

hilton said:


> He's a commercial fishermen who didn't play by the rules years ago.


As always it has to get personal.
I tried to explain your error in comprehention and refuse to go there again.
Ya just can't fix stupid.
But since you insist. 
Wanna go over that story about that so called captain running an illegal charter that sunk his boat because he didn't know how to take care of his boat and had no working high water alarms.
As I remember, the story went "I was going along and it seemed like the boat was just slowing down for no reason? DUH? OH! The boats sinking!"
But if you want, 
I have that all copied and ready to paste.
Along with my explaination of my IFQ fiasco IN 2007.
Let's do it tomorrow MOFO.
Ya know Tom, when you have issues with anyone that doesn't agree with you, you always stoop to lows of making it personal.
I call them YEAHBUTTS.
You get caught in a lie, and here come the yeahbutts.
And when you know your lies can get you sued, you always say "I hear through the grapevine". And like you little minitom "A friend of a friend of a friend" said yada yada. 
Never fails.
Bring up something from years ago, true or not.
As long as you can keep your minions interested.
Off issue. Whatever it takes to make you look like you know what your talking about.
Then, after insulting someone, and they take the bait, just like I just did, You point at them and BOHOO for getting personal. 
BC


----------



## hilton

Never ran an illegal charter in my life nor was I at fault for the Reef-man sinking. I guess you are calling the findings of the US Coast Guard a lie - no, it's you lying Bill Cochrane.

I simply corrected the guy - you are a commercial fisherman who didn't play by the rules years ago - that is documented fact - nothing personal about it.


----------



## billyc333

billyc333 said:


> Tom,
> Not a good idea.
> Yelp is for reviews. Not political rants.
> I double dog dare you to join Yelp and let us "review" Real-Time Navigator.
> I see you have already posted a rant on Yelp.
> Looks like evidence for a lawsuit to me.
> LMAO


I have changed my opinion about the Yelp "reviews" you suggest.
Have at it Tom.

And don't forget to submit Real-Time Navigator to Yelp.
Funny - not a peep from you about that?
Odd for you Tom.


----------



## Talmbout

IFQ fiasco? What happened, did you make a 3hour notice without having transferred your shares to your vessel account and Matt and Charles confiscated your catch?


----------



## Get'n Jiggy

hookN said:


> this has gotten moronically stupid , what a waste of bandwidth....ya'll need to go on a rec poachers patrol LOL


Anthony aka MAD MARLIN aka GREY BEARD you have been banned multiple times YET you still come back to troll. Your need for attention is very very sad. Did your momma and daddy not love you? You have mommy issues...

You made my ignore list... AGAIN so I can't read your idiot post


----------



## billyc333

hilton said:


> Never ran an illegal charter in my life nor was I at fault for the Reef-man sinking. I guess you are calling the findings of the US Coast Guard a lie - no, it's you lying Bill Cochrane.
> 
> I simply corrected the guy - you are a commercial fisherman who didn't play by the rules years ago - that is documented fact - nothing personal about it.


Oh, that was you Tom? The shoe fits?
Documented fact?
I challenge you to show me this "document".
Show or leave 2-cool.
And, while you are at it, you have the Coast Guard report.
Show that too!
But you, yes you, admitted right here on 2-coll that your high water alarms did not work.


----------



## cadjockey

Yay, another internet slapfight. Let's all go outside and yell at clouds tomorrow, we'll accomplish the same thing...


----------



## Cabollero

cadjockey said:


> Yay, another internet slapfight. Let's all go outside and yell at clouds tomorrow, we'll accomplish the same thing...


I propose a "2cool meet and beat"


----------



## billyc333

Talmbout said:


> IFQ fiasco? What happened, did you make a 3hour notice without having transferred your shares to your vessel account and Matt and Charles confiscated your catch?


Simple question.
Simple answer.
No
This was explained to Hilton four or five times, but he just ignored the facts, and accused me of not reporting. Just stupid.
The federal permit we had was from FL and had very little to no snapper history.
The "historical" catch history they used for our permit we had for tow years was from 5 years in FL and caused the average to drop by a great deal. Even though we were catching 100-k lbs for tow years, that caused the shares to equal only 17-k.
We mortgaged everything we had and bought Capt. Elliott's shares for over $500,000. Wait? That sure doesn't sound like a "GIFT" to me.
Hey just PM me and I'll be glad to document all that including log books, bill of sale, etc. Maybe you could explain it to Hilton, as if it is any of his business.
When Hilton tells a bald faced lie, I'll admit, he does get to me. Probably need to treat him like the child he acts like.


----------



## dbarham

Wgaf!


----------



## hilton

Hmmm - how long have you been commercial red snapper fishing Billy? You didn't start in 2007 did you?

How much did Capt Elliott pay for those shares Billy?


----------



## On The Hook

Chase This! said:


> LoL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


In my opinion, he said it wrong, I think he meant "*Pillaging the Gulf, and trying to claim it all for themselves , that is what Katie's Seafood is trying to do."* I think many others share that opinion.


----------



## billyc333

hilton said:


> Hmmm - how long have you been commercial red snapper fishing Billy? You didn't start in 2007 did you?
> 
> How much did Capt Elliott pay for those shares Billy?


Actually, Tommy, when I say we, I am speaking of my son, Bubba.
He started when he was 17, and he is now 46. Do the math.

I could care less what Elliott paid. Maybe HE was "gifted".
That sure as hell doesn't make it my gift too.
Look Tom, the commercial guys did not force the IFQ on themselves.
It was presented, voted on and started.
Simply put - It Is What It Is.
You guys really need to fix the recs system and stop wasting time with our, YES I SAID OUR, childish banter.
The system in place now is really simple.
The TAC is split with Com & Rec.
Naturally the coms understand the rec side is not their problem, or their business (until recs want com fish).
Why can't recs understand they need to fix THEIR broblem instead of claiming the coms are THEIR problem.


----------



## king_bullet

I think HEB is great but I am sure getting tired of seeing their ad with BG on the bow.


----------



## saltaholic

Because comms keeping filing lawsuits directly against recs!!!!


----------



## On The Hook

I don't know you or many of the ifq holders, but if I could buy from anyone many millions of dollars in annual revenue from a natural public resourse that I could sell to others year after year for only $500,000, I'd call that a gift. I'd call it an even bigger gift if that $500,000 purchase effectively excluded the public from realistically utilizing that previously available resource. That's a gift in my book. It is also wrong that a natural resource is privatized for the commercial benefit of a select few.



billyc333 said:


> Actually, Tommy, when I say we, I am speaking of my son, Bubba.
> He started when he was 17, and he is now 46. Do the math.
> 
> I could care less what Elliott paid. Maybe HE was "gifted".
> That sure as hell doesn't make it my gift too.
> Look Tom, the commercial guys did not force the IFQ on themselves.
> It was presented, voted on and started.
> Simply put - It Is What It Is.
> You guys really need to fix the recs system and stop wasting time with our, YES I SAID OUR, childish banter.
> The system in place now is really simple.
> The TAC is split with Com & Rec.
> Naturally the coms understand the rec side is not their problem, or their business (until recs want com fish).
> Why can't recs understand they need to fix THEIR broblem instead of claiming the coms are THEIR problem.


----------



## Chase This!

saltaholic said:


> Because comms keeping filing lawsuits directly against recs!!!!


Then we should file our own. And show the jury the footage of the 10,000 pounds that were sold as dog food.

How many rec trips would it take to catch 10,000#? How much revenue would be pumped into the economy to make those trips happen?


----------



## c1

These IFQ shares were issued from our government not sold. I'm not sure about this, but I believe the reef permits were issued for next to nothing as well. Yes, these shares are very valuable because supply and demand not because our government sold them. It's a gamble for commercial fisherman to buy them, and they have a lot to lose, if our government shuts this fishery down. Since we (recreational fisherman) only get to fish 10 days and keep 2 fish per person, I'm all for a total red snapper closer. What do we have to lose? 10 days if were lucky. Nothing personal, just a frustrated fisherman.


----------



## saltaholic

Chase This! said:


> Then we should file our own. And show the jury the footage of the 10,000 pounds that were sold as dog food.
> 
> How many rec trips would it take to catch 10,000#? How much revenue would be pumped into the economy to make those trips happen?


Join FRA and ask them to step in here

Here is some economic info

http://www.saltwatersportsman.com/and-winner-is?src=SOC&dom=fb


----------



## saltaholic

Lawsuit will be heard next week in court


----------



## dbarham

Chase This! said:


> Then we should file our own. And show the jury the footage of the 10,000 pounds that were sold as dog food.
> 
> How many rec trips would it take to catch 10,000#? How much revenue would be pumped into the economy to make those trips happen?


X2!


----------



## hilton

billyc333 said:


> Actually, Tommy, when I say we, I am speaking of my son, Bubba.
> He started when he was 17, and he is now 46. Do the math.
> 
> I could care less what Elliott paid. Maybe HE was "gifted".
> That sure as hell doesn't make it my gift too.
> Look Tom, the commercial guys did not force the IFQ on themselves.
> It was presented, voted on and started.
> Simply put - It Is What It Is.
> You guys really need to fix the recs system and stop wasting time with our, YES I SAID OUR, childish banter.
> The system in place now is really simple.
> The TAC is split with Com & Rec.
> Naturally the coms understand the rec side is not their problem, or their business (until recs want com fish).
> Why can't recs understand they need to fix THEIR broblem instead of claiming the coms are THEIR problem.


Simply put, the recs' problem is greedy commercial fat cats sticking their noses in our fishery, filing lawsuits to drive us off the water.

So Billy, you fished for 21 years before IFQs were implemented and you didn't get any allocation of quota? It seems you are not giving full disclosure here, and you know what I'm talking about - as I said, not playing by the rules...


----------



## cadjockey

Cabollero said:


> I propose a "2cool meet and beat"


Go post on the general fishing forum. You can be smackdaddy 2.0.


----------



## Cabollero

cadjockey said:


> Go post on the general fishing forum. You can be smackdaddy 2.0.


Wasn't directed at you. I was agreeing with your slap fight comment.


----------



## Kylie

the manner in which 
billyc posts and talks
is so annoying, im not sure how he can 
think that that is the proper way to string
together any coherent argument. 

User talmbout has the best name, gnome talmbout?


----------



## billyc333

On The Hook said:


> I don't know you or many of the ifq holders, but if I could buy from anyone many millions of dollars in annual revenue from a natural public resourse that I could sell to others year after year for only $500,000, I'd call that a gift. I'd call it an even bigger gift if that $500,000 purchase effectively excluded the public from realistically utilizing that previously available resource. That's a gift in my book. It is also wrong that a natural resource is privatized for the commercial benefit of a select few.


It's call BUSINESS. 
We had a business. The Gov made these changes. If you think that the $500-k brings in "millions, and millions" annually, you need to check your math.
$5000-k bought 50,000 lbs.
50,000 lbs = less than $250-k
But even if it did mean millions, it's BUSINESS.
I've been successfull in several businesses way before fishing, and I have never apoligized for being successfull. NOT starting now.
Now go fix the recreational fishery and stop trying to run me out of business.


----------



## billyc333

trapper67 said:


> Isn't billyc333 the capt that came in 10,000 lb short on one of the episodes?


Trapper67,
No, that was my son, Bubba.
Thanks for tuning in to the show. That helps ratings. 
If you would have been paying attention, you would have heard Bubba explain to Nick that the weather turned bad, so he came in.
Now, I love my son, and am extermely proud of him, and especially his fishing skills.
He has been making a living fishing since he was 17 years old.
The reason he came in is because the seas reached levels of 9 feet.
His personal limit is 10, but I fight with him on this because it's just too dangerous in those conditions. We settled on 9 feet. Actually, weather is part of the reason IFQs were developed.
Sorry for the late answer about your question. Even though it wasn't directly to me, it was concerning me, but it's hard to beat Tom answering for others.
Now if you don't like MY answer, Tom Hilton has put himself on standby to answer questions for me, and anyone else that he doesn't agree with.


----------



## billyc333

Kylie said:


> the manner in which
> billyc posts and talks
> is so annoying, im not sure how he can
> think that that is the proper way to string
> together any coherent argument.
> 
> User talmbout has the best name, gnome talmbout?


LMAO - looking at YOUR post here, it looks like the pot calling the kettle black.
That's old speak meaning - What the hell are YOU talking about?
For instance:
"User talmbout has the best name, gnome talmbout?"
Best name?
gnome?
HUH?
It's not that you can't understand what I'm saying.
You just don't like what I'm saying.


----------



## Sabine Flounder Pounder

*Billyc333*

A couple of civil questions for Billy if you don't mind.
1. How far from port do most boats travel to fish?
2. How deep of water can you fish with bandit gear?


----------



## Chase This!

Kylie said:


> the manner in which
> billyc posts and talks
> is so annoying, im not sure how he can
> think that that is the proper way to string
> together any coherent argument.
> 
> User talmbout has the best name, gnome talmbout?





billyc333 said:


> LMAO - looking at YOUR post here, it looks like the pot calling the kettle black.
> That's old speak meaning - What the hell are YOU talking about?
> For instance:
> "User talmbout has the best name, gnome talmbout?"
> Best name?
> gnome?
> HUH?
> It's not that you can't understand what I'm saying.
> You just don't like what I'm saying.


LoL.

I think it went right over billyc's head.


----------



## rringstaff

billyc333 said:


> It's call BUSINESS.
> We had a business. The Gov made these changes. If you think that the $500-k brings in "millions, and millions" annually, you need to check your math.
> $5000-k bought 50,000 lbs.
> 50,000 lbs = less than $250-k
> But even if it did mean millions, it's BUSINESS.
> I've been successfull in several businesses way before fishing, and I have never apoligized for being successfull. NOT starting now.
> Now go fix the recreational fishery and stop trying to run me out of business.


If your business is corrupt Government, then you are correct.

I do have to hand it to you and your kind. I, as of yet, have not figured out how to use the Gov. to squeeze my competition out in my particular business, so you did good in that respect.


----------



## manintheboat

billyc333 said:


> You guys really need to fix the recs system


Yeah, if that was only an option. If it were up to us, it would have been fixed many years ago. But it is not. NOAA/EDF call the shots here. It is in the best interest of their agenda to keep things exactly how they are for the recreational fishery. That way, they can pull numbers out of their backside at their convenience to show the rec sector is overfishing so they can keep us off of the water. Until Environmental Defense Fund and by proxy, NOAA is removed from the equation, nothing will improve for the recreational fishery.

In regards to the customers of Katies seafood, they have a right to feel the way they do. As long as the fish is fresh and plentiful, they can give them 6 stars as far as I am concerned. They have no interest in fishing for snapper. Their access to the red snapper fishery is through places like Katies, or Rosies, or whatever. All those places are stocked by commercial fishermen. They should have a voice as well as access and people like Buddy Guindon provide that. I am fine with that. I am also fine with Buddy Guindon and Bubba Cochran making a living fishing commercially. I am also fine with them being financially successful. Good for them.

But what I am not fine with is them actively (Buddy, at least) partnering with EDF in a lawsuit to further eliminate our opportunities to fish. That is a bs move and as low as you can go towards your fellow fishermen. There are plenty of snapper out there for ALL OF US.

But lowering the review rating for Buddy Guindon isn't going to change a thing. Putting him on blast on Yelp will not do anything either. Even if you can run off every customer from Katies, they will simply go to 100% wholesale and hum right along.

The bad guys are from Environmental Defense Fund. They are Buddy's daddy. They are the problem. Stay on task, folks.


----------



## Chase This!

600 posts here but only 26 one star reviews.

http://m.facebook.com/katiesseafoodmarket/reviews?refid=17


----------



## billyc333

Sabine Flounder Pounder said:


> A couple of civil questions for Billy if you don't mind.
> 1. How far from port do most boats travel to fish?
> 2. How deep of water can you fish with bandit gear?


You ask a "civil" question?
Congratulations!
You are now an arch enemy of Hilton and his Hiltonettes. - LOL
Why not civil AND humorous?

Our boats first stop is always around 80 miles, unless we have problems or need to sleep and stop and anchor or tie up to a rig. It's an 8 knot boat and travel is long times, normally 10-11 hours first stop.
I'm sure someone will chime in and say they saw us tied to a rig 30 miles out. See above. Of course they will say we were fishing. The truth is boreing. Lies and untruths are interesting.

Depth? 40 fathoms plus for snapper. Deeper for grouper and Golden Tile.


----------



## billyc333

Chase This! said:


> LoL.
> 
> I think it went right over billyc's head.


Why don't YOU explain it to me smart arse?
Best name?
gnome?

I'll wait for an explaination.


----------



## billyc333

rringstaff said:


> If your business is corrupt Government, then you are correct.
> 
> I do have to hand it to you and your kind. I, as of yet, have not figured out how to use the Gov. to squeeze my competition out in my particular business, so you did good in that respect.


Thanks, but you have it backasswards.
THEY used US to make the commercial fishery accountable.
Or, according to some recs, they used the coms to screw the recs.
Now go fix the rec side and stop worring about coms.


----------



## chuck richey

billyc333 said:


> Thanks, but you have it backasswards.
> THEY used US to make the commercial fishery accountable.
> Or, according to some recs, they used the coms to screw the recs.
> Now go fix the rec side and stop worring about coms.


 You are a special kind of stupid aren't you?????? Coms filed the lawsuits not the recs. Maybe the coms should have taken your advice from the start.


----------



## Chase This!

TTT


----------



## Talmbout

Appearing on a reality show may be hazardous to your health â€” in fact, it may be deadly. A new study of reality shows that have aired in the United States since 2005 reveals that 14 of the celebrities have committed suicide.


----------



## sotexhookset

They're not celebrities, they are all no talented 'hey look at me' drama queens. After their 15 seconds is up and they can't stand any of the what they thought was sincere attention is gone and feel that they can't go on anymore....then bueno bye. Except for the Deadliest Catch guys. Those hombres are the real deal kind of tough. Only drama queen amongst them is that one dude Phil. Good fisherman but way to dramatic and a whiney ***.


----------



## Mako-Wish

Wow. It's back. So we don't need 9 other threads on the same topic now?


----------



## ding-a-ling

I think the Nat Geo show is the greatest thing that's happened for rec's in quite a while. Think about it - the full absurdity of the situation is now on display weekly on national television, the scope of the greed and influence is on the record and in color, the ratings will be low and the acting is horrendous so no Oscars will be won, the right people will hopefully now see the issue in full light and make a plan for the future, and none of it was paid for by rec fishermen. NG just bought and paid for the best free promotion for our side imaginable.


----------



## manintheboat

ding-a-ling said:


> I think the Nat Geo show is the greatest thing that's happened for rec's in quite a while. Think about it - the full absurdity of the situation is now on display weekly on national television, the scope of the greed and influence is on the record and in color, the ratings will be low and the acting is horrendous so no Oscars will be won, the right people will hopefully now see the issue in full light and make a plan for the future, and none of it was paid for by rec fishermen. NG just bought and paid for the best free promotion for our side imaginable.


for that to be true, the rest of the story has to get out. Or at the very least, beyond what is being said on 2cool or hulltruth. I am not going to hold my breath on that one. Trust me, only a small percentage of Americans either care about fishing for snapper or who even fishes for them. Even fewer care if the fish on their plate is red snapper or tilapia. Nobody beyond those directly involved will take the time to learn what is going on. It is way easier to form a quick opinion based on a 5 second sound bit so they can move on to watching housewives of what have you.


----------



## Fired Up

king_bullet said:


> I think HEB is great but I am sure getting tired of seeing their ad with BG on the bow.


Exactly - very disappointing.


----------



## Liquid Assets

Fired Up said:


> Exactly - very disappointing.


Let them know how you feel:
https://www.heb.com/contact-us


----------



## Momma's Worry

*Buccaneer Field*

BG made a comment in the last show about the over fished Buccaneer Field due south of Galveston? (32mls?)....while pulling up 6/7 nice sized snaps at a Rig for study ..I could not ID it as Ga-288,could have been....I have never caught or seen anyone catch quality snaps(70'), as his, from Ga-288 maybe he is the only one who can,maybe I need lessons ....the original field of 24 platforms, I was told, was very good for smallish snaps at one time but has since been pulled up and clean swept cept for a couple arty pipe reefs when 288A,296B,288AQ,296BQ were cut down(2003)(like all the rest with explosives) and two standing well jackets GA288C & 321-A ..... a study showed small (under 15")red snaps at 4% total population...mangrove at 10%(2003).......


----------



## Dufrsp31

I found 6 pages of good conversation about this topic in the Florida Sportsman forum.

http://forums.floridasportsman.com/showthread.php?215304-big-fish-texas-must-see-tv


----------



## awesum

Dufrsp31 said:


> I found 6 pages of good conversation about this topic in the Florida Sportsman forum.
> 
> http://forums.floridasportsman.com/showthread.php?215304-big-fish-texas-must-see-tv


That IS good conversation about this show that is not even happening in their home waters. Thanks!


----------



## billyc333

awesum said:


> That IS good conversation about this show that is not even happening in their home waters. Thanks!


And the ratings just keep going up.
Season two for sure?
LOL


----------



## roundman

quotes from that thread 
Yes they "like" the 13" red snapper but what they "like" doesn't really help the "endangered species" recover does it. Taking those small fish before they are fully mature and spawning really seems to fly in the face of the stated goals of the fishery management........ or am I incorrect?

What is more important proper management of the species or catering to what restaurants "like"?
_________________________

One episode I watched clearly showed a bull red dead on the line in the background, never showed it out of the water or the rest of the death the leave behind. Pretty sad to think that discovery channel, nat geo etc the channels that used to be about wildlife are now full of reality shows about exploiting those resources instead i.e. This show, gold rush, all the logging ****... 
yup
Read more: http://forums.floridasportsman.com/showthread.php?215304-big-fish-texas-must-see-tv&#ixzz42mzbTQQ7
​


----------



## billyc333

roundman said:


> quotes from that thread
> Yes they "like" the 13" red snapper but what they "like" doesn't really help the "endangered species" recover does it. Taking those small fish before they are fully mature and spawning really seems to fly in the face of the stated goals of the fishery management........ or am I incorrect?
> 
> What is more important proper management of the species or catering to what restaurants "like"?
> _________________________
> 
> One episode I watched clearly showed a bull red dead on the line in the background, never showed it out of the water or the rest of the death the leave behind. Pretty sad to think that discovery channel, nat geo etc the channels that used to be about wildlife are now full of reality shows about exploiting those resources instead i.e. This show, gold rush, all the logging ****...
> yup
> Read more: http://forums.floridasportsman.com/showthread.php?215304-big-fish-texas-must-see-tv&#ixzz42mzbTQQ7
> ​


And the ratings just keep going up.
Season two for sure?
LOL


----------



## Dufrsp31

It's even being talked about in non-fishing forums. ******* people off for sure. Let the ratings go up and bring on a second season. The longer Nat Geo keeps showing the hypocritical tactics of this show will only keep the recs drive up and pushing forward for resolution to the corruption.

http://texags.com/forums/34/topics/2730872/replies/45722755


----------



## Stumpgrinder

billyc333 said:


> And the ratings just keep going up.
> Season two for sure?
> LOL


So what ? Who does this help ?


----------



## awesum

billyc333 said:


> And the ratings just keep going up.
> Season two for sure?
> LOL


And the higher the ratings go the more eyes are opened .... LOL


----------



## billyc333

Stumpgrinder said:


> So what ? Who does this help ?


It helps the entire snapper fishery.
And, obviously Katie's.
Heck, I'm so addicted to Big Fish Texas, I'm going to Katie's and buy back some of my snapper.
LOL


----------



## Mad Mike

Big Fish Texas has poured fuel on a smoldering fire. Several family members tied to Katies have said they are catching more hell from other commercial fishermen than recs. They regret doing the show.


----------



## dbarham

TV ruins everything
Loma


----------



## iridered2003

just seen HANS on the travel channel on bizarre foods. them boys gettin around


----------



## ToddyTrout

Hey Bill, why don't you tell everyone about the B-liner trips y'all make and what happens to the incidental bycatch on those trips. Your son used to really like to talk about that on the docks, or brag about it! Do y'all still give NMFS agents grouper fillets or is that just BW that does that???


----------



## matagordamudskipper

I've never watched this show or plan too


----------



## ftw66

ToddyTrout said:


> Hey Bill, why don't you tell everyone about the B-liner trips y'all make and what happens to the incidental bycatch on those trips. Your son used to really like to talk about that on the docks, or brag about it! Do y'all still give NMFS agents grouper fillets or is that just BW that does that???


Billy's mind is set, no matter what you say, donate or join FRA,that will resonate much more!!!


----------



## matagordamudskipper

What dock do I go to for the grouper fillets? Snapper fillets too?


----------



## Fin-Atic

I think we should organize a peaceful demonstration outside Katies Seafood in Galveston with all 2coolers and boycott their unacceptable practices.


----------



## ftw66

Fin-Atic said:


> I think we should organize a peaceful demonstration outside Katies Seafood in Galveston with all 2coolers and boycott their unacceptable practices.


All 2coolers should join or donate to FRA, lawsuit will be heard March 17th, a better avenue in my opinion.


----------



## sotexhookset

^^^ done by this lowly bay fisherman.


----------



## Fin-Atic

ftw66 said:


> All 2coolers should join or donate to FRA, lawsuit will be heard March 17th, a better avenue in my opinion.


We can do both!


----------



## ftw66

Fin-Atic said:


> We can do both!


10/4 my friend, I'm all about teamwork!!!


----------



## ftw66

sotexhookset said:


> ^^^ done by this lowly bay fisherman.


Thank you sir, I'm a member of the mosquito fleet myself!


----------



## ftw66

Fin-Atic said:


> We can do both!


Tell me when, I'll take off work!


----------



## saltaholic

Fin-Atic said:


> We can do both!


Bingo- if you are going to draw the media attention it's best to be affiliated and organized to the T.......

Contact FRA and get them involved


----------



## ftw66

saltaholic said:


> Bingo- if you are going to draw the media attention it's best to be affiliated and organized to the T.......
> 
> Contact FRA and get them involved


I fear all we have done is awoken a sleeping giant, and filled him with terrible resolve!
Isoroku Yamamoto


----------



## hookN

ftw66 said:


> All 2coolers should join or donate to FRA, lawsuit will be heard March 17th, a better avenue in my opinion.


HA....that's a well thought out plan , problem is that all this peeps are cheap talkers . WHY in the heck do you think they are here wasting bandwidths with all this wet cardboard winning ?
They don't want to spend the coin ,neither want to take the time and effort to speak to our representativesite or take their lazy winning rears to gulf management meetings...at least Bubba,Bill spend the cash to fight for their rights....
It's easy to just log in on 2cool and trash talk with a bottle of royal crown next to the keyboards. ...:rotfl:


----------



## hookN

ftw66 said:


> I fear all we have done is awoken a sleeping giant, and filled him with terrible resolve!
> Isoroku Yamamoto


Day dreaming :bounce:


----------



## chuck richey

hookN said:


> HA....that's a well thought out plan , problem is that all this peeps are cheap talkers . WHY in the heck do you think they are here wasting bandwidths with all this wet cardboard winning ?
> They don't want to spend the coin ,neither want to take the time and effort to speak to our representativesite or take their lazy winning rears to gulf management meetings...at least Bubba,Bill spend the cash to fight for their rights....
> It's easy to just log in on 2cool and trash talk with a bottle of royal crown next to the keyboards. ...:rotfl:


 Been to more meetings than I care to remember. Never made a difference because the gulf council always has done what it wants. Look at the sector separation BS. Meeting and comments going against this was thru the roof yet it still got pushed thru

Well of course they will pay the money, they are MAKING money off of the mess. We the recs are not making a dime. But you already know that just trolling as always


----------



## hookN

As usual , throw the blame to others LOL. Accountability, Sir .
Once the whole Rec sector gets together unanimously, spend the cash and gets organize nothing will change get ..beside the whole winning that Yall been doing for the last 10 years...heck now a post showa up to join the RFA..uh ! I guess Nat Geo had to come up with a TV show for Yall to get out of your rears and get a little ruffle ....pathetic .


----------



## billyc333

chuck richey said:


> Been to more meetings than I care to remember. Never made a difference because the gulf council always has done what it wants. Look at the sector separation BS. Meeting and comments going against this was thru the roof yet it still got pushed thru
> 
> Well of course they will pay the money, they are MAKING money off of the mess. We the recs are not making a dime. But you already know that just trolling as always


I've never seen you make one public comment?
Sitting and listening with a closed mind will not get you anywhere.


----------



## chuck richey

billyc333 said:


> I've never seen you make one public comment?
> Sitting and listening with a closed mind will not get you anywhere.


 Well you are wrong with that. Have done it numerous times. No closed mind at all. And not one to just sit and listen.


----------



## ftw66

hookN said:


> HA....that's a well thought out plan , problem is that all this peeps are cheap talkers . WHY in the heck do you think they are here wasting bandwidths with all this wet cardboard winning ?
> They don't want to spend the coin ,neither want to take the time and effort to speak to our representativesite or take their lazy winning rears to gulf management meetings...at least Bubba,Bill spend the cash to fight for their rights....
> It's easy to just log in on 2cool and trash talk with a bottle of royal crown next to the keyboards. ...:rotfl:


Thanks my friend, keep on fanning the fire, your doing me a favor. Your just to ignorant to realize it.


----------



## hookN

Yeah ...let me recap. First it was the Illegal Mexican poachers , then the decommissioned of oil rigs ,then the head boats ..now is Nat Geo and Katie Seafood. ...C'min peeps. Get your stuff together LOL


----------



## roundman

hookN said:


> Yeah ...let me recap. First it was the Illegal Mexican poachers , then the decommissioned of oil rigs ,then the head boats ..now is Nat Geo and Katie Seafood. ...C'min peeps. Get your stuff together LOL


maybe next show you can go with bg and try to catch them :rotfl:


----------



## hookN

ftw66 said:


> Thanks my friend, keep on fanning the fire, your doing me a favor. Your just to ignorant to realize it.


Go and get some anmo...you're firing on empty.


----------



## ftw66

hookN said:


> Day dreaming :bounce:


You think?


----------



## billyc333

chuck richey said:


> Well you are wrong with that. Have done it numerous times. No closed mind at all. And not one to just sit and listen.


I stand corrected.
I hope you are not the guy that starts his comment off by telling the Council members that are all a bunch of idiots, like Hilton.
Not slamming Hilton. That's just the way him, and about two of the four other recs that show up do it.
And, that's the problem. The few recs that actually show up, instead of trying to "fix it" on 2-cool, these 2-coolers start it off be demeaning the Council, personally, just like on 2-Cool. Of course, they just get eye rolls from the council. Helps the dozens of coms that show up a great deal.


----------



## ftw66

hookN said:


> Go and get some anmo...you're firing on empty.


Like I said son, your providing all the ammo needed. :rotfl:


----------



## sotexhookset

roundman said:


> maybe next show you can go with bg and try to catch them :rotfl:


Lol. This guys a fng moron. He and the other mouth have no clue as to how hard they're driving it deep into their family/friends. I'll just sit back, laugh and let them do their thing. They literally can't stand it so let em go. Lol


----------



## gater

*Recs*



billyc333 said:


> I stand corrected.
> I hope you are not the guy that starts his comment off by telling the Council members that are all a bunch of idiots, like Hilton.
> Not slamming Hilton. That's just the way him, and about two of the four other recs that show up do it.
> And, that's the problem. The few recs that actually show up, instead of trying to "fix it" on 2-cool, these 2-coolers start it off be demeaning the Council, personally, just like on 2-Cool. Of course, they just get eye rolls from the council. Helps the dozens of coms that show up a great deal.


Most recs have real jobs. Most don't have the luxury of having someone else do the dirty work for them and still get paid!


----------



## matagordamudskipper

I've never bought snapper from the store(or any other gulf fish), never watched this show(never will), or supported the raping of our oceans on large scale operations.


----------



## billyc333

gater said:


> Most recs have real jobs. Most don't have the luxury of having someone else do the dirty work for them and still get paid!


Well, all I can say is . . . 
OPPS!

Ain't you that poacher guy that recommended to 2-coolers?:
And, I quote from that post -

"The only time you should go into Federal waters to poach is between June 1st and September 1st and you should not poach more than the state water limit."

And I said I wasn't going to be a part of your insulting posts.
Never mind.


----------



## Liquid Assets

It appears for every star that Katies looses, billy just gets more and more obtuse. They are down to 4 now.


----------



## gater

*Snapper*



billyc333 said:


> Well, all I can say is . . .
> OPPS!
> 
> Ain't you that poacher guy that recommended to 2-coolers?:
> And, I quote from that post -
> 
> "The only time you should go into Federal waters to poach is between June 1st and September 1st and you should not poach more than the state water limit."
> 
> And I said I wasn't going to be a part of your insulting posts.
> Never mind.


Yes that would be me, glad to see you got over your bitterness....


----------



## reeldeep

Go home billy you're drunk


----------



## wet dreams

Discards were mentioned or the 'lack of' in the shows. IMO thats another reason they don't want us on the water. The last trip I made offshore was with Rik, on our way in he spotted a commercial boat on his way to another spot, he wanted to run by it to see who it was, Rik said look at all that red hanging on them bandits. He just shook his head and told me thats what most do with their shorts. I seriously doubt we or anyone else will see any discards shown floating on the show....OR on a hook


----------



## billyc333

reeldeep said:


> Go home billy you're drunk


uckFa ouYa!
That would be a serious night of drinking since I quit in 1986.

Now, if I could just quit that cocaine and heroin.
LMAO


----------



## Steelersfan

billyc,

2cool FOOL of the year...

keep on eating those paint chips sunshine.....


----------



## Mad Mike

Steelersfan said:


> billyc,
> 
> 2cool FOOL of the year...
> 
> keep on eating those paint chips sunshine.....


He's embarrassing himself, and his family. Sad because years ago, he was a respected fisherman.


----------



## hookN

billyc333 said:


> uckFa ouYa!
> That would be a serious night of drinking since I quit in 1986.
> 
> Now, if I could just quit that cocaine and heroin.
> LMAO


Dang Billy, can't leave you alone...you've won all the awards, even they named you 2cool fool of the year..I though I was the winner :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Ladies, Nat Geo is hiring for the Naked and Afraid show , heard they're looking to peeps with very little brains and low inteligence. BET yall get the job. Now GO ON


----------



## hookN

ftw66 said:


> Like I said son, your providing all the ammo needed. :rotfl:


MY FATHER ....or shall I call you DaddyO


----------



## MikeWilson

hookN said:


> Ladies, Nat Geo is hiring for the Naked and Afraid show , heard they're looking to peeps with very little brains and low inteligence. ON[/QUOTE
> 
> I heard your audition is going to be held in the overflowing portable toilet outside Katie's seafood. Your in luck as your the only name on the list to compete! Enjoy!


----------



## hookN

Mike , you heard it all wrong brah! The one held at Katie's is the Recreational Poachers ASSOCIATED 
I think we've send you an invitation LOL


----------



## Kenner21

chuck richey said:


> Been to more meetings than I care to remember. Never made a difference because the gulf council always has done what it wants. Look at the sector separation BS. Meeting and comments going against this was thru the roof yet it still got pushed thru
> 
> Well of course they will pay the money, they are MAKING money off of the mess. We the recs are not making a dime. But you already know that just trolling as always


 Of course Admn40 got passed. When you have members of the Gulf Council allowed to vote whether or not to put more money into their own pockets it becomes quite clear what a dog and pony show it has become. ( I know you are aware just stating it for everyone) But no no it's recs fault because we don't have the accountability we've all been asking for. Does anyone really expect recs to waste their time attending these meetings when the outcome is so obviously fixed from the very beginning?


----------



## Fisher Price

Just joined the FRA and encouraged all my family and friends to do the same


----------



## Cabollero

hookN said:


> Mike , you heard it all wrong brah! The one held at Katie's is the Recreational Poachers ASSOCIATED
> I think we've send you an invitation LOL


Hook's not really the leading man type. He's happy being Billy's fluffer. Oh and Hook, you never answered my question from the last thread.


----------



## Get'n Jiggy

Cabollero- Hahahaha Great post! 

Hookn is Anthony or Mad Marlin(banned) or Grey Beard(banned) or.... a super troll. He has been banned on evey fishing site known. Expecally on 360tuna. He has ZERO friends so he trolls for attention. He is a grown man but with a mind of a child so Negative attention is better than nothing. 

He has multiple screen names but supa easy to pick him out cuz he can't spell or put a coherent sentence together. Anthony says he is on multi medications for bipolar disorder. 

Watch out he CREEPY!! 

I put his screen names on Ignore so post are hidden from view  

Good luck with cra cra


----------



## sotexhookset

Lol. That makes a lot of sense. I figured him to be an 11th grade drop out dirty pos meth head that has worked on a com boat but was even banned by them so he's just suckin azzs. 

Actually, I'm sure he is both of those things. Lol. What a fng loser.


----------



## spurgersalty

Get'n Jiggy said:


> Cabollero- Hahahaha Great post!
> 
> Hookn is Anthony or Mad Marlin(banned) or Grey Beard(banned) or.... a super troll. He has been banned on evey fishing site known. Expecally on 360tuna. He has ZERO friends so he trolls for attention. He is a grown man but with a mind of a child so Negative attention is better than nothing.
> 
> He has multiple screen names but supa easy to pick him out cuz he can't spell or put a coherent sentence together. Anthony says he is on multi medications for bipolar disorder.
> 
> Watch out he CREEPY!!
> 
> I put his screen names on Ignore so post are hidden from view
> 
> Good luck with cra cra


Aka, "JoshK" and "nook". Also banned.


----------



## Snookered

spurgersalty said:


> Aka, "JoshK" and "nook". Also banned.


 ah, now it all makes sense....thanks for the heads up spurgersalty....
snookered


----------



## hookN

Snookered said:


> ah, now it all makes sense....thanks for the heads up spurgersalty....
> snookered





Cabollero said:


> Hook's not really the leading man type. He's happy being Billy's fluffer. Oh and Hook, you never answered my question from the last thread.


Hahahaha.....awesome, like your terminology Bollero? You should Google what that means LOL


----------



## hookN

This is funny , guys you have NOTHING, nada against Billy but to start another witch hunt or wore hunt LOL...love it .
Go on ..now I'm amused


----------



## spurgersalty

Can I press 1 for the English version of the above post, JoshK?


----------



## iridered2003

billyc333 said:


> uckFa ouYa!
> That would be a serious night of drinking since I quit in 1986.
> 
> Now, if I could just quit that cocaine and heroin.
> LMAO


you're my best customer, don't quit now billy. I got to make that money somehow,lmfao:rotfl::rotfl:


----------



## WilliamH

spurgersalty said:


> Can I press 1 for the English version of the above post, JoshK?


hookn is a burn handle?

:ac550:


----------



## Cabollero

spurgersalty said:


> Can I press 1 for the English version of the above post, JoshK?


Don't be too hard on him. He had a rough day. Long line at the metahadone clinic.


----------



## Jolly Roger

Cabollero said:


> Don't be too hard on him. He had a rough day. Long line at the metahadone clinic.


and his Pimp BillyC been pushing hard....


----------



## chuck richey

*Governor*

I wonder if Greg Abbott has seen this show????????


----------



## Charlietunakiller

spurgersalty said:


> Aka, "JoshK" and "nook". Also banned.


Marcos Dominques too


----------



## spurgersalty

Charlietunakiller said:


> Marcos Dominques too


You think so? I didn't, but who knows.


----------



## trapper67

just read that a certain someone has/owns the rights to.............

Donâ€™t let his looks fool you; he is anything but a typical fisherman. Guindon, star of National Geographic Channelâ€™s â€œBig Fish Texasâ€, will proudly tell you, he has the rights to harvest five percent of American red snapper from the Gulf of Mexico, not to mention harvesting an additional 20% of the deep-water grouper and 25% of the golden tilefish.

http://gulfseafoodnews.com/2013/11/30/gulf-fishermans-looks-dont-always-tell-whole-story/


----------



## popeye_iv

On the latest episode, Buddy said that the Red Snapper quota is divided at 51%/49% between comms and recs. Is that true? The math just doesnt seem to work out.

An annual harvest of 7,000,000 lbs a year, subtract 49% and divide that by 10 days of fishing, that comes to roughly 17,600 anglers taking their 2 fish quota per day, every day for the 10 days.

Am I totally wrong on this one?


----------



## trapper67

popeye_iv said:


> On the latest episode, Buddy said that the Red Snapper quota is divided at 51%/49% between comms and recs. Is that true? The math just doesnt seem to work out.
> 
> An annual harvest of 7,000,000 lbs a year, subtract 49% and divide that by 10 days of fishing, that comes to roughly 17,600 anglers taking their 2 fish quota per day, every day for the 10 days.
> 
> Am I totally wrong on this one?


I believe it is approx 7,000,000 lb to comm and the same amount to rec. Right at 14,000,000 lb total


----------



## sotexhookset

Lol. For now thanks to his ego and whack job cohorts.


----------



## Stumpgrinder

BFT. Buddy says " Scott Hickman is a recreational fisherman"

I peed myself listening to that horse feces


----------



## popeye_iv

trapper67 said:


> I believe it is approx 7,000,000 lb to comm and the same amount to rec. Right at 14,000,000 lb total


OK. SO that doubles my estimate. Is this possible? The recs are pulling out 7 millions pound of fish in 10 days? The same amount it takes the commercial guys to pull all year?


----------



## Jolly Roger

popeye_iv said:


> OK. SO that doubles my estimate. Is this possible? The recs are pulling out 7 millions pound of fish in 10 days? The same amount it takes the commercial guys to pull all year?


After Buffer and Charter Quota removed from REC quota think it is around 3.2million pounds this year. FED say average fish is somewhere around 8lbs, so gives ALL gulf states with millions upon millions of fishermen around 400,000 fish.

What the FEDs estimate the RECs catch a day is extremly wrong. The Gulf states have proved this. Not only have the FEDs over estimated the REC harvest they have under estimated the amount of Red Snapper stock in the gulf by a magnitude of 1000s. The FEDs did not count REFF fish on REEFs. This is past the point of stupid and border line illegal. The FEDs cost millions of dollars of revenue to business all along the gulf coast. There incompetence would have been fired a long time ago if they were anyone else. A complete and total failure of management.

The really bad part is the FEDs do not want to improve or change anything. ONLY when the FEDs were forced by congress did they make any changes. Once they made these changes they increased the REC buffer and Average weight of fish caught for a net LOSS of season to the RECs.

In all shapes, forms and ways you can think about it the FEDs are a complete failure. They are bought and paid for. the ONLY solution for RECs is states control like in Bill HR3094.


----------



## C BISHOP

Stumpgrinder said:


> BFT. Buddy says " Scott Hickman is a recreational fisherman"
> 
> I peed myself listening to that horse feces


x2


----------



## c1

C BISHOP said:


> x2


x3


----------



## Jolly Roger

Yall do not have to beleive me, you can listen to the HEAD of NOAA say that dragging nets is a good way to get a stock assement on red snapper. You can also listen, in his own words the expert from Alabama tell you just how bad the FEDs overestimate the REC catch.

There have been so many attempts by RECs to fix the problem it is unreal. Even in this paste you can see there was a bill to fix the problem. All these trys have been fought by commerical fishermen, they are a bunch of F'ing liars. They DO NOT want REC fishermen to have better data, they DO NOT want REC fishermen to have longer season. The Sealords are in it all for themselves and they have joined forces with the EDF to make it happen.

look at the links






....................................................

Apr 1, 2015 Press Release
Congressman Bradley Byrne (AL-1) today criticized the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administrationâ€™s (NOAA) proposed rule to set the 2015 quota for Red Snapper in the Gulf of Mexico.

NOAAâ€™s proposed rule touts a three million pound increase in the quota for Red Snapper, but Congressman Byrne warns that this is not the whole picture. NOAA is still under sampling the number of Red Snapper in the Gulf and does not have reliable data to determine the number of Red Snapper caught. Last year, NOAA estimated 1,041,000 pounds of Red Snapper were caught off the coast of Alabama while the Alabama Red Snapper Reporting system only estimated a catch of 418,000 pounds.

Byrne said: â€œWhile NOAA has proposed an increase in the Red Snapper quota, the truth is we are only getting more of the same. Donâ€™t let this supposed increase fool you. In reality, NOAA will use a twenty percent buffer to account for alleged â€˜overfishing,â€™ a method that results in almost no tangible increase.

â€œWorst of all, NOAA continues to base their findings on flawed data. Anyone who has been fishing in the Gulf knows the Red Snapper fishery is as healthy as ever. Unfortunately, NOAA continues to not sample for Red Snapper on reefs, which is especially troubling since Red Snapper are reef fish.â€

Congressman Byrne has introduced H.R. 981, the Red Snapper Regulatory Reform Act, which would repeal the inflexible quotas and remove data collection and stock assessments from federal control. Byrne argues that the Gulf states are doing a better job of measuring the Red Snapper stock and estimating the yearly catch.

Byrne said: â€œIt is clear there is a better way to deal with our Red Snapper fishery, and that means giving more power to the Gulf States to do the data collection and stock assessments. State level data continues to be more accurate and more scientific than the data being put forward by Washington-based federal bureaucrats. I will continue working with my Gulf Coast colleagues to push for much-needed reforms, including my bill, the Red Snapper Regulatory Reform Act.â€

The Red Snapper Regulatory Reform Act is co-sponsored by eight House Republicans, including House Majority Whip Steve Scalise (R-LA).


----------



## Dufrsp31

So the latest episode has BG digging a deeper hole. On their way to a council meeting, he says something to the effect of... those folks on the council are just a bunch of ***holes that sit on the board... or something like that. I don't remember the exact words he used. Dolphin keep eating their grouper catch and can't sell half of a fish. Hans admits to having to throw them overboard, but they don't show it. To get rid of the dolphins, they admit to just keep fishing and feeding the dolphins until they are full. Another boat comes in with $60,000 worth of grouper and Katie's is out of ice. The fish lay around for 1.5 hrs or longer with no ice. Still showing big yachts every time they talk about recreational fishermen. Ugh...


----------



## roundman

yup , he said recs were guys with money and big yachts , , he musta been talking about his buddies , lmfao


----------



## gater

*Recs*



roundman said:


> yup , he said recs were guys with money and big yachts , , he musta been talking about his buddies , lmfao


Well he!!, all this time I thought I was a rec! I'm just a peon poacher! lol


----------



## Jolly Roger

roundman said:


> , , he musta been talking about his buddies , lmfao


Yup, this is what Commercial fishermen in Texas are buying now days as play toys....


----------



## Dufrsp31

Also said recs are 1% of the population and we don't need more fish. So what percent of the total population are the few kingpins that get the other 51%???


----------



## Jolly Roger

Dufrsp31 said:


> Also said recs are 1% of the population and we don't need more fish. So what percent of the total population are the few kingpins that get the other 51%???


there argument is that they supply red snapper to the general population that does not have boats. It is a ******** lie, no one spends more money for snapper at a fish market or out to eat over grouper, mahi mahi, halibut or Tuna but snapper is priced higher then all of them.

They have a monopoly, they inflate the prices and what does not sell goes to dogfood or is bought as a kickback by EDF.

You ever wonder why politicians write books that no one reads? they are a way of a kickback from groups that can not come straight out and give them cash.

This snapper deal is the MO for environmental groups in the last decade. They figured out they could not fight everyone so they choose partners. They support them, push legislation for them. It is there way of taking the lesser of all evils. While they do not like who they are working with, they feel they have control and are better off compared to what they are fighting. In this case they are fighting the RECs.

Once again you do not have to believe me, there is sworn testimony from a commercial fishermen telling you the same thing from last week. Winners and losers, so far RECs have been the loser.


----------



## roundman

Dufrsp31 said:


> So the latest episode has BG digging a deeper hole. On their way to a council meeting, he says something to the effect of... those folks on the council are just a bunch of ***holes that sit on the board... or something like that. I don't remember the exact words he used. Dolphin keep eating their grouper catch and can't sell half of a fish. Hans admits to having to throw them overboard, but they don't show it. To get rid of the dolphins, they admit to just keep fishing and feeding the dolphins until they are full. Another boat comes in with $60,000 worth of grouper and Katie's is out of ice. The fish lay around for 1.5 hrs or longer with no ice. Still showing big yachts every time they talk about recreational fishermen. Ugh...


that was it, also it was " recs. are wealthy with big yachts and just fish for fun ". the throwing fish back missing tails " thats sustainability " ? throw a dog a bone, lol


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## Dufrsp31

To correct my post above, Buddy called the council a bunch of "Dumb*$$es". That should go over well for the next meeting.


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## popeye_iv

What about that house Little Ricky apparently bought? Nice looking house, especially for a guy who just got out of the army and has not job to speak of.


----------



## Lat22

roundman said:


> yup , he said recs were guys with money and big yachts , , he musta been talking about his buddies , lmfao


I don't even fish offshore and this guy ****** me off. How does he walk around Galveston without people getting up in his face? The arrogance of this guy.....


----------



## Mad Mike

roundman said:


> yup , he said recs were guys with money and big yachts , , he musta been talking about his buddies , lmfao


I laughed when I heard that lie again last night. Was that Buddys puppet boy Hickman at that meeting?


----------



## DGAustin

Was that Buddys puppet boy Hickman at that meeting?

Yes


----------



## Snookered

Dufrsp31 said:


> To correct my post above, Buddy called the council a bunch of "Dumb*$$es". That should go over well for the next meeting.


 wow....I would call THAT a "negative review"....LOL
snookered


----------



## Stumpgrinder

popeye_iv said:


> What about that house Little Ricky apparently bought? Nice looking house, especially for a guy who just got out of the army and has not job to speak of.


He's just a salt of the earth , hard working little guy ( with a 350k house and a Daddy with politicians in his pocket)


----------



## Lostinpecos

Buddy and Scott are completely consumed with hatred against the recs. He insists on making allegations towards the 1 percenters. Scott does not represent the recreational fisherman and it is unnerving about his business ties with in with the commercial fisherman without full disclosure to the audience. Again, its not his show.


----------



## Stumpgrinder

Lostinpecos said:


> Buddy and Scott are completely consumed with hatred against the recs. He insists on making allegations towards the 1 percenters. Scott does not represent the recreational fisherman and it is unnerving about his business ties with in with the commercial fisherman without full disclosure to the audience. Again, its not his show.


In my opinion, if you sell fish or fishing trips on public waters... By definition you are a commercial fisherman. This goes way past red snapper too in my mind


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## hilton

Hickman is a commercial fisherman - he owns commercial shares.


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## rringstaff

hilton said:


> Hickman is a commercial fisherman - he owns commercial shares.


Hell he advertises catch shares so he has to be comm if I understand the rules.


----------



## Lostinpecos

*public awareness*

I can't help but feel suspicious that National Geo real intentions and that is exposing a heated issue to help motivate viewers to take action.


----------



## Liquid Assets

I would be willing to bet the ratings stars on their facebook page hits 0 by the end of the day. Any takers?


----------



## Jock Ewing

Just gave them a 1 star. They get pissy about it.


----------



## hilton

rringstaff said:


> Hell he advertises catch shares so he has to be comm if I understand the rules.


Hickman is dual permitted - both charter and commercial, yet they somehow "forgot" to mention that fact on the show apparently, referring to Hickman as a recreational fishermen. Just goes to show just how much fiction is in what they say.


----------



## Snookered

hilton said:


> Hickman is dual permitted - both charter and commercial, yet they somehow "forgot" to mention that fact on the show apparently, referring to Hickman as a recreational fishermen. Just goes to show just how much fiction is in what they say.


 true statement.....he is a dual permitted captain, which makes him a Commercial Fisherman, as he makes at least part of his living from commercial fisheries.....that should make him INELIGIBLE to represent Recreational fisherpeoples....conflict of interest.....
snookered


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## Fired Up

" all recs are rich"

funny last RS season when we were at the 27s sure seemed like a lot of middle class rigs out there - in fact not one yacht lol..

" i sure hope I can catch the ferry " as he drives by the sub at seawolf park :rotfl:


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## Liquid Assets

Fired Up said:


> " all recs are rich"
> 
> " i sure hope I can catch the ferry " as he drives by the sub at seawolf park :rotfl:


LMAO.. Bunch of poachers on the ferry bro....


----------



## roundman

Fired Up said:


> " all recs are rich"
> 
> funny last RS season when we were at the 27s sure seemed like a lot of middle class rigs out there - in fact not one yacht lol..
> 
> " i sure hope I can catch the ferry " as he drives by the sub at seawolf park :rotfl:


yea i caught that too, i thought maybe they built a ferry landing there,lmao :rotfl:

billy musta hurt his hands no keyboarding lately , lol


----------



## MikeWilson

Lostinpecos said:


> I can't help but feel suspicious that National Geo real intentions and that is exposing a heated issue to help motivate viewers to take action.


Nat Geo and EDF are in bed together...

Otherwise why are the Nat Geo producers would not be showing a shot of a 62 ft cruiser type yacht during the show every time BG mentions rich recreational fisherman are 1% of the population.

Here is a some evidence that Nat Geo and EDF are partners.

*By EDF Oceans | Published: November 21, 2012
 Bubba Cochrane. Photo by Mark Thein of GulfWild.

This is a re-post of a National Geographic Blog posted by Miguel Jorge of National Geographic's Ocean Initiative on November 20, 2012
Bubba Cochrane always knew he wanted to be a fisherman. So, despite concerns from his family, he began his career as a deck-hand and eventually saved enough to buy a permit and boat of his own. Heâ€™s 43 years old now and owns a commercial fishing business out of Galveston, Texas. Business is good â€" but he can easily remember what fishing used to be like.
â€œWhen I got started, fishing was a race: when the season opened we fished every day until we were notified that the quota was caught. That meant lots of fishing all at once, a glut of fish in the market, and bad prices when we got back to the docks,â€ said Bubba, reminiscing about his early days in the fishery.
Through the mid-2000s, the red snapper fishery was on the brink of collapse. Even with so few fish in the population and a short season, the fishing derbies meant that the price at the dock stayed low, hurting the profits of commercial fishermen. Fishery managers tried to address the price problem by breaking up the season into the first 15, then 10 days of each month. Fishermen would fish for 10 days, and then wait until the next month to go out again.
These sporadic openings were not the solution fishermen like Bubba wanted. â€œItâ€™s hard to run your business in just the first 15 days of a month; a lot can get in the way. I tell people to imagine a gas station only being able to sell gas for the first ten days of each month or a contractor only being able to build houses in that short window.â€
The pressure on Bubbaâ€™s business and his way of life was intense. â€œA derby is really stressful â€" youâ€™re worried about the weather or if you get sick or even hurt. And it means you miss a lot of birthdays and holidays with your family, because when fishing is open youâ€™d better be on the water.â€
In the derby fishery, being safe was a luxury Cochrane could not afford. â€œGood weather was a bad thing. If the weather was good, the price was bad because everyone was fishing.â€
This all changed in 2007, when the commercial red snapper fishery implemented an individual fishing quota (IFQ) program, a form of catch share.
Fisheries in the United States are managed under a system called catch limits. A catch limit is a scientifically-based cap on the number of fish that can be harvested from a fishery each year in order to keep the stock healthy for future seasons. Catch share programs, at its most basic, give exclusive fishing rights to commercial fishers to harvest a specific percentage of the total catch limit. When a boat hits its individual quota for the year, it has to quit fishing unless it is able to lease or buy quota from another boat in the same fishery. Catch shares take the pressure to race to catch fish off of the commercial fishermen, letting them fish their quota year-round. In turn, it stabilizes the price of their catch and gives them the power to make business decisions that are best for them (instead of being hostage to a limited open season).
For Bubba it sounded like another band-aid that wouldnâ€™t solve the problem. That was until he attended a workshop to learn about how catch shares work. â€œI was worried about being able to catch enough. Then I learned you could buy and lease quota.â€ Bubba was able to find a seller and purchased more quota for his business.
â€œBecause the price has stabilized and even increased from before the IFQ, Iâ€™m making more for my catch and spending less to catch it, because Iâ€™m not always racing to go out.â€
Since the implementation of the catch share program in the commercial red snapper fishery, the value of the commercial fishery has gone up 150 percent. Reports from other fishermen echo Bubbaâ€™s â€" they are making more and spending less to catch fish.
For conservation, the results are clear. The fish population has increased enough to warrant a 60 percent increase in the catch limit. Discarded or wasted fish have been reduced dramatically. Because commercial fishermen can catch red snapper year-round, they are throwing less overboard. That means more fish in the ocean for commercial and recreational fishermen.
â€œCatch shares taught me about stewardship. I know what sustainability means and I believe in it,â€ said Cochrane. â€œThereâ€™s a future for the fishery. Most older fishermen would have never let their kids get into fishing. I have a nine-year-old son; before the IFQ I would have pushed him from fishing, now Iâ€™m encouraging him to become a fisherman some day.â€
Click here to learn about how National Geographicâ€™s Ocean Initiative is helping to identify and support individuals and organizations that are using creative and entrepreneurial approaches to marine conservation.

*


----------



## RedRocket

I do not remember the red snapper fishery near collapse in the mid 2000s. 

Funny how derby fishing is dangerous to commercial fisherman but not recs. Here is you 6 days to go fishing in June.


----------



## MikeWilson

RedRocket said:


> I do not remember the red snapper fishery near collapse in the mid 2000s.
> 
> Funny how derby fishing is dangerous to commercial fisherman but not recs. Here is you 6 days to go fishing in June.


I've heard the derby being mentioned as dangerous to recs. They do that when they are pushing fish tags for us.


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## Kylie

https://twitter.com/GulfRedSnapper

follow, share like and retweet


----------



## donf

We are all ******, and being screwed. This WILL NOT CHANGE without legislative changes. 
Tom Hilton, God Bless You, and what the hell do we do next? Nothing else is working!


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## Capt'nDanG

That just goes to show how much you guys "actually" know about what hickman is doing... He is not a dual permitted boat. Try again there King Hilton



hilton said:


> Hickman is dual permitted - both charter and commercial, yet they somehow "forgot" to mention that fact on the show apparently, referring to Hickman as a recreational fishermen. Just goes to show just how much fiction is in what they say.


----------



## jeffsfishin

*Wrong*



Capt'nDanG said:


> That just goes to show how much you guys "actually" know about what hickman is doing... He is not a dual permitted boat. Try again there King Hilton


Seriously, Shows how much you actually know. Go to the bottom of the page and lets see who's name and company is there, Hickman also holds Red Snapper commercial IFQ and is shooting for charter IFQ as is Jennings and the rest of the crooks.

http://sero.nmfs.noaa.gov/operation...freedom_of_information_act/common_foia/RR.htm


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## sea sick

Hilton just said Hickman is dual permitted, not a dual permitted boat from what I read. Then again, you are a low rent comm....it's understandable. .lol

.


----------



## hb

Check out the number of permits held by Mike Miglini, aka Great Sage inc. He even worked his way up into the upper level of the port aransas boatmens association. Talk about a conflict of interest. They come from all over.....


----------



## gater

*Permitted*



Capt'nDanG said:


> That just goes to show how much you guys "actually" know about what hickman is doing... He is not a dual permitted boat. Try again there King Hilton


After Hickman called the Game Warden on me I called the Feds in Galveston to ask why a charter boat can fish out of season in Texas waters. The Federal Warden ask me if I was refering to Scott Hickman and I said yes. He told me Scott Hickman is one of about five dual permitted boats in Texas.

So are you telling us that the Federal Game Wardens are lying, try again Capt. Dan


----------



## hilton

Gater
Are you talking about Hickman's college roommate?


----------



## Hotrod

You have to be a real p o s to be hated by almost the entire fishing community and hated by all your fishing peers. I know you read this Hickman


----------



## Duckchasr

*Snapper wars*

:cheers:I just wanted to weigh in on this fine thread. I really haven't fished for snapper since I was in high school 80's -90's most the captain;s I fished with didn't always come through the "jetties". The biggest problem we had back then was the trigger fish wouldn't let the bait get down. The biggest I seen caught was my dad was trolling a russlelure for kings and caught a 25 pound snap. Any way I read through all this Horse Sh%$ and felt like giving my two cents. I applaud Mr. Hilton he has dumped more rock in the gulf then all these folk running their head combined. Maybe the comercial guys are mad cause he be selling lots of gps numbers and they can't comecially fish inside 9 miles. But on the other hand I think there should be snapper on the menu of restaurants for folks in Wisconson {even though they are yanks) . Bottom line is the enviro wackos try to keep us divided to conquer... FISHERMEN SHOULD STICK TOGETHER! :goldfish:I believe we can get it figured it out better if we take the management from the feds and put it in the states hands. And to the OP I cut the cable so I don't watch the show. I also think the personal attacks are childish and attacking Katy's probaly won't help either. Carry On.:texasflag
And a big Thanks goes to Mont for tolerating all the Horse Sh%$!


----------



## Kylie

jolly roger, i love your passion and dedication to this. we have met a few times, and have fished together back in my TKF days. i want all the info you have and i want to pump that out to the public in the twitter world. putting this info and continuing to tag the businesses that support this garbage will make more difference than only posting here. no business likes negative press in the social media world. i have already started letting these people know that they are going to be losing customers. we just need support.


----------



## Kylie

....


----------



## gethookedadventures01

Hotrod said:


> You have to be a real p o s to be hated by almost the entire fishing community and hated by all your fishing peers. I know you read this Hickman


Hickman has a bad name in my neck of the woods for doing a bunch of waterfowl hunters wrong over the years.


----------



## sea sick

gethookedadventures01 said:


> Hickman has a bad name in my neck of the woods for doing a bunch of waterfowl hunters wrong over the years.


I know a bunch of guys that he screwed over dove hunting. I know one time he put about 25 hunters know a field,told them they were the 1st to hunt the field. Had feathers and hulls all over the place. The dude would just rather lie than tell the truth. And he still has people calling him to hunt. I've never hunted with him, never will.


----------



## Capt. Blood

*E caller violator 2*



sea sick said:


> I know a bunch of guys that he screwed over dove hunting. I know one time he put about 25 hunters know a field,told them they were the 1st to hunt the field. Had feathers and hulls all over the place. The dude would just rather lie than tell the truth. And he still has people calling him to hunt. I've never hunted with him, never will.


That's the same guy that opened the e caller season early a few years ago! He got busted and justified it on here by saying they where just a bunch of white crows... No big deal!!?? Just a hypocrite on fish and game laws


----------



## iridered2003

here's the next one for you guys to biotch about. im more then sure a lot of you will cause he makes to much money. remember, he sells red snapper also,lmao
http://www.chron.com/business/article/Houston-billionaire-Tilman-Fertitta-will-star-on-6753389.php


----------



## sea sick

Never heard of him! Or is he the guy with the crummy chain restaurant's? Who cares! ?


----------



## Snookered

hb said:


> Check out the number of permits held by Mike Miglini, aka Great Sage inc. He even worked his way up into the upper level of the port aransas boatmens association. Talk about a conflict of interest. They come from all over.....


no kidding.....I thought that was crazy when I learned about that!!

goes to show that there are no depths to GREED in the snapper game, these people will screw ANYONE over they possibly can to make a buck.....and Miglini's behavior was condoned by his fellow Share the Gulfers through their silence, so they are just as sick in the head.....so sad...
snookered


----------



## gater

*Truth*



sea sick said:


> I know a bunch of guys that he screwed over dove hunting. I know one time he put about 25 hunters know a field,told them they were the 1st to hunt the field. Had feathers and hulls all over the place. The dude would just rather lie than tell the truth. And he still has people calling him to hunt. I've never hunted with him, never will.


In the local guide circles he is known as 50/50, 50% of the time he is lying and the other 50% of the time he is not telling the truth....LOL


----------



## flashlight

sea sick said:


> I know a bunch of guys that he screwed over dove hunting. I know one time he put about 25 hunters know a field,told them they were the 1st to hunt the field. Had feathers and hulls all over the place. The dude would just rather lie than tell the truth. And he still has people calling him to hunt. I've never hunted with him, never will.


Been there and done that with Hickman. That guy has ZERO integrity and I always wonder how that guy has stayed in the guiding business over the years. You would think word of mouth would have gotten around about that guy by now.


----------



## hilton

Snookered said:


> no kidding.....I thought that was crazy when I learned about that!!
> 
> goes to show that there are no depths to GREED in the snapper game, these people will screw ANYONE over they possibly can to make a buck.....and Miglini's behavior was condoned by his fellow Share the Gulfers through their silence, so they are just as sick in the head.....so sad...
> snookered


Miglini got thrown off the docks down in Port A a while back due to his stance on catch shares.


----------



## ding-a-ling

flashlight said:


> Been there and done that with Hickman. That guy has ZERO integrity and I always wonder how that guy has stayed in the guiding business over the years. You would think word of mouth would have gotten around about that guy by now.


 Character is like a tree and reputation like a shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing.

Abraham Lincoln


----------



## WestBay217

flashlight said:


> Been there and done that with Hickman. That guy has ZERO integrity and I always wonder how that guy has stayed in the guiding business over the years. You would think word of mouth would have gotten around about that guy by now.


https://www.facebook.com/Circle-H-Outfitters-and-Charters-338737372387/reviews/

Leave him a review


----------



## Snookered

hilton said:


> Miglini got thrown off the docks down in Port A a while back due to his stance on catch shares.


 whoa!!!! I had not heard that one!!! please divulge details!!!! doesn't really surprise me though, as far as he had gone with the Boatmen....

I'm actually surprised that's all did to him after those shenanigans he pulled for so long......they let him off easy....
snookered


----------



## Snookered

WestBay217 said:


> http://www.facebook.com/Circle-H-Outfitters-and-Charters-338737372387/reviews/
> 
> Leave him a review


 play nice please! we just went through this last week....Mont isn't going to warn anyone this time, he's made that clear....
snookered


----------



## WestBay217

Snookered said:


> play nice please! we just went through this last week....Mont isn't going to warn anyone this time, he's made that clear....
> snookered


I've been on two guided dove hunts with Circle H, and was happy with both of them. If others aren't happy let him know in his reviews, that's what it's there for. Not sure what you are referring to happening last week.


----------



## Hotrod

Katie's got tired of seeing all the honest reviews. They blocked me from posting anymore truth on their reviews. Time to use my other Facebook accounts. Very easy to make more


----------



## aggie4231

Hotrod said:


> Katie's got tired of seeing all the honest reviews. They blocked me from posting anymore truth on their reviews. Time to use my other Facebook accounts. Very easy to make more


Same here


----------



## Hotrod

Looks like they Had to bring in family members to try and give them some positive reviews.


----------



## Momma's Worry

I got blocked after making a comment to a reply from someone else which Katies would not answer on the photo of the huge groupers... ......that they were not caught with rod and reel after days or a WEEK of waiting on a bite......like on Wicked Tuna....which is what every one thinks that sees it ........most fans have no concept of industrial long line fishing


----------



## Friendswoodmatt

Hickman screwed me and my group on a dove hunt too. I will never use him again and any time I get the chance to tell anybody in person about him and what he pulled on me-- I take it. No Bueno-- but hey he got my money didn't he? 
They called me the next year to ask if I wanted to book again-- and I said I will never use him for anything again he screwed me-- they said ok thanks-- never asked why-- makes you think this may have happened to them before huh?


----------



## trapper67

From their FB page...................213 5 star and 182 1 star ratings

*Katie's Seafood Market*

4 hrs Â·

1 star us all you want the people can't get enough fresh seafood.


----------



## Kenner21

Friendswoodmatt said:


> Hickman screwed me and my group on a dove hunt too. I will never use him again and any time I get the chance to tell anybody in person about him and what he pulled on me-- I take it. No Bueno-- but hey he got my money didn't he?
> They called me the next year to ask if I wanted to book again-- and I said I will never use him for anything again he screwed me-- they said ok thanks-- never asked why-- makes you think this may have happened to them before huh?


That'd be worth leaving on his Facebook review page. Pretty sure you can't get sued for stating facts, not that he wouldn't try. He was on some local fishing facebook groups last year trying to sell dove hunts. Eventually it all got deleted hopefully he didn't rip anyone off.


----------



## Friendswoodmatt

Not my style if he has a habit of screwing people over word will get around sounds like it may have already. Karma will get him. I have seen it before

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


----------



## roundman

trapper67 said:


> From their FB page...................213 5 star and 182 1 star ratings
> 
> *Katie's Seafood Market*
> 
> 4 hrs Â·
> 
> 1 star us all you want the people can't get enough fresh seafood.


boats coming in after 7-16 days offshore with fish on ice most wouldnt be very fresh,lol , id rather have mine that were swimming 4 hours earlier crispy fresh


----------



## Momma's Worry

Momma's Worry said:


> I got blocked after making a comment to a reply from someone else which Katies would not answer on the photo of the huge groupers... ......that they were not caught with rod and reel after days or a WEEK of waiting on a bite......like on Wicked Tuna....which is what every one thinks that sees it ........most fans have no concept of industrial long line fishing


the people(fans) who buy from Katies only see the cute/nice family and fresh fish on ice ....reach deep in that pocket while you are at it ...they are controlling those higher prices......

the customers are the low information types and could care less about "Snapper Wars".........they do not have a clue about what they are really looking at....


----------



## trapper67

*Catch Shares Indictment?*

Found the article but copied from THT. Please Read

According to accusations from Federal investigators, the seafood business run by Carlos Rafael "laundered" fish to evade quotas, sold fish for cash to evade taxes, and cheated captains and crews by paying them for lower-valued fish than what they landed. These are serious criminal accusations, but they also raise a disturbing question: Is the system known as "catch shares" at least in part responsible for what occurred?​Catch shares are a system of managing fish where fishermen are given fixed quota for each species, which they can either catch or lease. All legal fish must be retained, and the quota cannot be exceeded. According to proponents of the system, giving fishermen economic incentive not to exceed limits will promote sustainability.​Fifty-three million dollars has been spent implementing catch shares in New England. Since implementation, the NOAA regional office moved into a new four-story building with room to accommodate all the new hires and subcontractors maintaining the program, while environmental non-governmental organizations have wrung millions from their multimillionaire donors to run a relentless promotional public relations campaign. A cottage industry of companies, consultants, and academic institutions has received millions in grants to implement, monitor, and study catch shares. Meanwhile, most fishermen and their families, other than a handful of winners, have been eliminated from the fishery or reduced to near bankruptcy.​As a fisherman, you either work or you donâ€™t eat. The people running Mr. Rafaelâ€™s boats essentially became modern-day sharecroppers. The exorbitant cost of leasing quota was deducted from their share of the catch, and, as of March 1, they are additionally responsible for the cost of government-mandated monitoring. Mr. Rafael also allegedly told the captains how to fill out their logbooks so that his fish-laundering scheme could operate. The captains, who signed the logbooks under penalty of perjury, had a choice: Sign, or do not eat.​Iâ€™ve been a critic of this management regime since its inception. I voted against it when I served on the New England Fishery Management Council, and I am currently a plaintiff in a federal lawsuit challenging the industry obligation to pay for at-sea monitors. In a 2013 Vice magazine interview, Mr. Rafael referred to small boats such as mine as â€œmosquitoes on the b--- of an elephant.â€ Catch shares is a system designed to create elephants like Mr. Rafaelâ€™s business, and eliminate mosquitoes like me. Itâ€™s done through high bureaucratic overhead costs. Catch shares actively encourage the consolidation of fishing fleets, and the elimination of fishing communities and jobs.​As soon as this story broke, environmental organizations rushed to their beloved programâ€™s defense, falsely claiming that more at-sea monitoring would have detected the problem. These boats did carry monitors, and fish landings were recorded dockside. Monitors, which cost fishermen $700 per day, wouldnâ€™t have detected the problem because the alleged fish laundering occurred behind closed doors, on land, long after the monitors had packed up their scales and gone home.​Despite a multi-million dollar monitoring system including satellites, at sea monitors, deputized state enforcement agents, and much more, this case was made by good old-fashioned police work. It takes two people to bring illegal fish to market: a crooked fisherman and a crooked dealer. The crimes occur on land, not at sea. Crime is made easier when a vertically integrated company controls the process.​How many more indictments should investigators file? As I write this, the elephant is out on bail and the mosquitoes have been administered a lethal dose of "NOAA Fisheries DDT" in the form of at-sea monitoring charges. The federal affidavit accuses many of wrongdoing, including at least one member of law enforcement. You cannot indict a concept, but you can investigate all the money that has been spread around in the creation of catch shares. A system based on greed is guaranteed to encourage bad behavior. As further consolidation occurs, that greed will spread from the remaining fishermen into management and NGOs.​The accusations against Mr. Rafael and his fishermen are a symptom of a failed system, but not the cause. If we cannot indict the cause, we should eliminate it. I am willing to talk about alternative management strategies for New England groundfish. Is anyone willing to listen?​_David Goethel is the lead plaintiff in the current lawsuit against NOAA regarding the requirement that fishermen pay for at-sea monitoring. He is the owner and operator of the Ellen Diane vessel, a 44-foot fishing trawler, out of Hampton, New Hampshire. Mr Goethel fishes year round for cod and flounder in the spring and fall, silver hake and herring in the summer, and shrimp in the winter. He was born in Boston and raised in Needham, Massachusetts, and began fishing at the age of 13. He holds a BA in Biology from Boston University. Upon graduating with his undergraduate degree, Mr. Goethel worked at the New England Aquarium as a research biologist._​


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## trapper67

Here is a link to the 20 plus pages of the FRA lawsuit. I think the case is be heard the 22nd.

https://www.facebook.com/thefishing.rightsalliance?pnref=story


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## hilton

trapper67 said:


> Here is a link to the 20 plus pages of the FRA lawsuit. I think the case is be heard the 22nd.
> 
> http://www.facebook.com/thefishing.rightsalliance?pnref=story


Lays it out pretty succinctly - could throw a gargantuan-sized monkey wrench into their profit-grab scam disguised as fishery conservation.

Guys they could use your help....contact the Berman Lawfirm to donate.

[email protected]

Nothing is too small....suing the federal government is expensive....so $10, $20, $50.....whatever you can do.....

Thanks


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## saltaholic

trapper67 said:


> Here is a link to the 20 plus pages of the FRA lawsuit. I think the case is be heard the 22nd.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/thefishing.rightsalliance?pnref=story


Great read! Could easily change things real quickly


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## roundman

ok, who took billys keyboard away?


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## Momma's Worry

*Nat Geo Big Fish, Texas*








Blue dots represent where 1.6 million pounds of Gulf Wild Red Snapper is shipped in the United States. Gulf Wild and Fish Trax are two organizations that sets standards for genuine, responsibly-caught and safety tested Gulf Red Snapper that is trackable back to the accountable fishermen. Graphic: Gulf Wild........set to buy more then one million pounds or 20% of the total Gulf red snapper harvest ...Houston based Sysco Louisiana Seafood... .. I noticed the show(BFT) only shows the rather smallish retail market with people lined up out the door(lol) which can't possibly move that many fish at one or two per customer($8.50 and up per pound)...where are the large trucks to haul off the 10's of thousands of pounds with smiling employees loading them?....


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## sotexhookset

roundman said:


> ok, who took billys keyboard away?


His boy Bubba probably caught wind of this thread and broke it over the old mans head. Kind of sux because I enjoyed watching him and that other that dumbass punk bury that knife deeper into his own circle.


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## Momma's Worry

The Gulf Seafood Institute has added Sysco Corporation to its list of founding members. A Sysco truck travels I-35 northbound through the Flint Hills of Kansas. Photo: Ed Lallo/







Buddy Guindon, owner of Katieâ€™s Seafood in Galveston, a longtime fisherman and supplier for Louisiana Foods, is glad to see Syscoâ€™s support for GSI. Photo: Ed Lallo/Gulf Seafood News

Buddy Guindon, owner of Katieâ€™s Seafood Market in Galveston, a longtime fisherman and supplier for Louisiana Foods, is glad to see Syscoâ€™s support for GSI.
â€œIt is important that companies like Sysco become involved with the Gulf Seafood Institute,â€ Guindon said. â€œAs a member of GSI, I welcome Sysco, as they are the largest purveyor of seafood in North America.â€
The new partnership with GSI has already paid dividends for Sysco on Capitol Hill. The company was closely involved in key conversations regarding red snapper catch limits for commercial and recreational fishermen in the Gulf.


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## bwguardian

roundman said:


> ok, who took billys keyboard away?


Hhhaaa, the culprit has been caught! Cool story http://www.beaumontenterprise.com/n...le-likely-took-record-red-snapper-4250251.php btw...


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## gethookedadventures01

Guys he's the victim! Clearly I mean we're all rich with huge boats after all.


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## JFolm

bwguardian said:


> Hhhaaa, the culprit has been caught! Cool story http://www.beaumontenterprise.com/n...le-likely-took-record-red-snapper-4250251.php btw...


That couple may or may not be 2coolers..


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## Kenner21

Can someone point in the right direction and tell me who I need to speak with to arrange delivery of my yacht?


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## Bazooka

gethookedadventures01 said:


> Guys he's the victim! Clearly I mean we're all rich with huge boats after all.


This is SUCH complete BS! How does one man single handedly gain control and profit from an entire fishery.


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## piratelight

I'll just leave this here

Sent from my ayePhone using Tapatalk


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## roundman

looks like surfside to me,lol


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## piratelight

Nah. Can't be. That's "reality" tv. 


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## Momma's Worry

*Snapper Wars*

gifted 4.75% of 6.7mill lbs and he's whining?...I am thinking now BG did Nat Geo thinking it would promote his cause in the eyes of the non-fishing crowd .....I do not think he is aware of all the heat, being in the spotlight, that is going to come his way....


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## sotexhookset

Momma's Worry said:


> gifted 4.75% of 6.7mill lbs and he's whining?...I am thinking now BG did Nat Geo thinking it would promote his cause in the eyes of the non-fishing crowd .....I do not think he is aware of all the heat, being in the spotlight, that is going to come his way....


You know that is exactly right. I've always kind of known the situation and legislative/greased pockets fight the rec's have (as again I'm just a lowly bay rat that gets invited offshore on occasion) and I really DID'NT have a dog in the fight, BUT I do now after watching parts of that dumbass show. Arrogant mfer attempting (doing) to make all rec fisherman look like outlaws and thieves. It's bs and that senile old salty dude here on 2cool just took it to another level for me. Sure opened my eyes a little bit more as well as any outdoorsman I would suspect. Being arrogant, cocky and then flaunting what they 'have' to others that would just like the resource laws to be more fair is a dumbass move on all their part but I'm glad they thought it was a good idea. Well I'm sure they did at the time anyway. Lol


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## Blueshoes




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## roundman

" we got a good thing going " yea,, seems to me he has been busted before for illegal fishys

http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/big-fish-texas/videos/trawling-for-crooks/


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## Get'n Jiggy

I gave a 100% honest rating with a review but it was deleted in 5min....


I won't be happy until the rating is 0. 

Hans called us a hate group :rotfl:



Awesome :texasflag


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## Kylie

here is what the CFA is saying on twitter


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/711304584896110592


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## trapper67

They went to a 3.2 rating. It was 227 5 star to 210 1 star reviews. now it is 259 to 210


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## rringstaff

gethookedadventures01 said:


> Guys he's the victim! Clearly I mean we're all rich with huge boats after all.


This is sort of ******* me off.

If we are all rich with big boats,,,,,,I want to know who has mine.


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## Mikeyhunts

What site are y'all reviewing on. Is like to rate the nasty fish they sell.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## trapper67

Mikeyhunts said:


> What site are y'all reviewing on. Is like to rate the nasty fish they sell.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/katiesseafoodmarket/


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## popeye_iv

I'd be happy to publicly share my 1040 next to Buddy's. Let's see which one is wealthy.


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## Stumpgrinder

rringstaff said:


> This is sort of ******* me off.
> 
> If we are all rich with big boats,,,,,,I want to know who has mine.


X2. Buddy may have struggled once , but it was a looooong time ago. He's gotten above his raisings


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## Kylie

lol charter fishermans association blocked me


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## mrsh978

Just left my Yelp review for them. There was no middle finger icon to highlight so they got one star.


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## hilton

If the supposed intent of Sector Separation was to keep each sector "separate", then why are these EDF-funded commercial and charter hypocrites sticking their noses into OUR sector?

Guindon's video is about protecting his "assets" (his supposed ownership rights to what ALL Americans already own) as well as promoting the last piece of the EDF Plan - fish tags for the private recs. He knows the states will provide access to the public trust resources for the benefit of ALL, not just a select few well-connected corporations.

If these jokers get their way, the days of us going out, catching a fish, and putting that fish in the cooler for "free" are coming to an end. Fish tags are the mechanism to control the amount of fish available to the rec sector (with no regard to our historical access) as well provide the ability to charge us $$ for each and every fish we want to bring home.

Disgusting, to the highest degree.


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## CAPSIZED

Ratings and renewal prospects

Big Fish Texas premiered to 0.561 million viewers and a 0.2 rating in the 18-49 demographic. By the fourth episode the series slid to 0.367 million viewers and a 0.1 rating. The series holds an 8.6/10 rating on IMDb, which, however, is not particularly telling, as it's based on only 17 ratings from the viewers. At this point in the season it's difficult to predict the series' future, so please stay tuned for more information and we will update you on either a renewal or a cancelation when it's announced.


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## JFolm

CAPSIZED said:


> Ratings and renewal prospects
> 
> Big Fish Texas premiered to 0.561 million viewers and a 0.2 rating in the 18-49 demographic. By the fourth episode the series slid to 0.367 million viewers and a 0.1 rating. The series holds an 8.6/10 rating on IMDb, which, however, is not particularly telling, as it's based on only 17 ratings from the viewers. At this point in the season it's difficult to predict the series' future, so please stay tuned for more information and we will update you on either a renewal or a cancelation when it's announced.


I would like to urge the recreational guys to stop watching. Easiest way to make it go away is not support it and let it drive itself into the dirt.

I was wondering. Can we get FRA to buy some commercial time while this show plays? That would be epic.


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## Kylie

calling buddy out on twitter


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/711445540135768065
thank you gethooked adventures for the video clip


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## Kylie

sorry, double post.


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## wet dreams

JFolm said:


> I was wondering. Can we get FRA to buy some commercial time while this show plays? That would be epic.


WINNER!!! I would still drive to Galveston to hold a sign in front of said seafood house


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## jeffsfishin

CCA Needs spend some money making all recreational outdoorsmen and Women aware of what is going on via some billboards or air time on the radio or Television. Momentum needs to continue to build against the Catch Shares ****.


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## Momma's Worry

A Sysco delivery to a restaurant on the Kansas City Country Club Plaza. Photo: Ed Lallo/Gulf Seafood News

Sysco also is at the forefront of developing strategies for the responsible sourcing of wild seafood products through sustainable buying practices and standards.
â€œJoining the Gulf Seafood Institute is part of the multiple-stage commitments Sysco has made to ensure wild seafood supply sustainability,â€ Buckner said. â€œOur commitment is to have 100 percent of the top 10 Sysco-brand, wild-caught seafood species sourced from fisheries that are certified by the Marine Stewardship Council in their full assessment process, as well as to be involved in fishery improvement projects with the World Wildlife Fund.â€


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## Kenner21

Deleted last post, no point in giving that EDF mouth piece the attention he is looking for.


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## hilton

Just 2cool? Of course, more misinformation from the EDF-funded mouthpieces. This propaganda piece has done more to bring American recreational anglers together than anything I've seen to date. The show is a slap in the face to each and every American - the arrogance just might come back to bite them on their arse.

http://www.pensacolafishingforum.com/f21/big-fish-texas-nat-geo-*******-me-off-676657/

http://www.thehulltruth.com/gulf-coast/731979-nat-geo-show-snap-fishing.html

http://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/...ng-against-recreational-red-snapper/62367307/

http://forums.floridasportsman.com/showthread.php?216128-Big-Fish-Texas

http://360tuna.com/threads/i-hope-that-fat-bastard-on-big-fish-texas-has-a-fkin-heart-attack.46380/

http://texags.com/forums/34/topics/2730872


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## trapper67

hilton said:


> Just 2cool? Of course, more misinformation from the EDF-funded mouthpieces. This propaganda piece has done more to bring American recreational anglers together than anything I've seen to date. The show is a slap in the face to each and every American - the arrogance just might come back to bite them on their arse.
> 
> http://www.pensacolafishingforum.com/f21/big-fish-texas-nat-geo-*******-me-off-676657/
> 
> http://www.thehulltruth.com/gulf-coast/731979-nat-geo-show-snap-fishing.html
> 
> http://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/...ng-against-recreational-red-snapper/62367307/
> 
> http://forums.floridasportsman.com/showthread.php?216128-Big-Fish-Texas
> 
> http://360tuna.com/threads/i-hope-that-fat-bastard-on-big-fish-texas-has-a-fkin-heart-attack.46380/
> 
> http://texags.com/forums/34/topics/2730872


another one...
http://www.thehulltruth.com/dockside-chat/740502-big-fish-texas.html


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## piratelight

Lol. The thread name on 360. Bwaaahahaha


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## piratelight

Wow.

Sent from my ayePhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]

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## Dufrsp31

OMG, this is hilarious. Found it in the Tigerdroppings thread.


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## sotexhookset

piratelight said:


> Lol. The thread name on 360. Bwaaahahaha
> 
> Sent from my ayePhone using Tapatalk


Lol! No doubt. Lil excerpt from the first page had me laughing. Lol


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## cuzn dave

rringstaff said:


> This is sort of ******* me off.
> 
> If we are all rich with big boats,,,,,,I want to know who has mine.


Is that Cowboy in the background at the start?
If any recreational fishermen are not pizzed off about this then you're not paying attention!


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## saltaholic

hilton said:


> Just 2cool? Of course, more misinformation from the EDF-funded mouthpieces. This propaganda piece has done more to bring American recreational anglers together than anything I've seen to date. The show is a slap in the face to each and every American - the arrogance just might come back to bite them on their arse.
> 
> http://www.pensacolafishingforum.com/f21/big-fish-texas-nat-geo-*******-me-off-676657/
> 
> http://www.thehulltruth.com/gulf-coast/731979-nat-geo-show-snap-fishing.html
> 
> http://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/...ng-against-recreational-red-snapper/62367307/
> 
> http://forums.floridasportsman.com/showthread.php?216128-Big-Fish-Texas
> 
> http://360tuna.com/threads/i-hope-that-fat-bastard-on-big-fish-texas-has-a-fkin-heart-attack.46380/
> 
> http://texags.com/forums/34/topics/2730872


That pretty much covers the whole gulf coast.......


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## trapper67

Hans Guindon
Today at 12:40am
They hate us because they ain't us!! _í ½í¸œ__í ½í¸œ__í ½í¸œ__í ½í¸œ__í ½í¸œ__í ½í¸œ__í ½í¸œ__í ½í¸œ__í ½í¸œ__í ½í¸œ__í ½í¸œ__í ½í¸œ_ y'all just put on ur shades/ (hater blockers)!!


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## gethookedadventures01

trapper67 said:


> Hans Guindon
> Today at 12:40am
> They hate us because they ain't us!! _Ã­Â Â½Ã­Â¸Âœ__Ã­Â Â½Ã­Â¸Âœ__Ã­Â Â½Ã­Â¸Âœ__Ã­Â Â½Ã­Â¸Âœ__Ã­Â Â½Ã­Â¸Âœ__Ã­Â Â½Ã­Â¸Âœ__Ã­Â Â½Ã­Â¸Âœ__Ã­Â Â½Ã­Â¸Âœ__Ã­Â Â½Ã­Â¸Âœ__Ã­Â Â½Ã­Â¸Âœ__Ã­Â Â½Ã­Â¸Âœ__Ã­Â Â½Ã­Â¸Âœ_ y'all just put on ur shades/ (hater blockers)!!


Lmao hater blockers? Is he a teenaged girl?


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## gethookedadventures01

Looks like he's trying to call us out.


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## hog

Show me MY money and yacht? I must have forgotten to find or pick it up somewhere along the way :headknock


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/711445540135768065


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## trapper67

The Gulf alliance groups are even suing Noaa to keep aquaculture out of their sandbox...

We have 30 years of experience about what to do and what not to do in aquaculture,â€ Rubino said. NOAA claims that a boost to offshore aquaculture will bring many benefits with it: less reliance on imported fish, more jobs for fishermen in the Gulf, more fish to feed a growing demand.
â€œLike any human activity, there are risks,â€ Rubino acknowledged, such as farmed fish escaping from enclosures and competing or breeding with their wild relatives.
But NOAA scientists have spent years looking into the environmental effects of offshore aquaculture and they concluded that it does more good for the environment than harm, he said. â€œIâ€™m not sure that has caught up with the general public yet,â€ he added.
NOAAâ€™s environmental impact statement on the plan is hotly contested by a handful of environmental organizations and fishery alliances in the Gulf.
â€œThe ultimate environmental analysis [that NOAA conducted] falls short of what is legally mandated,â€ Sylvia Wu, an attorney at the Center for Food Safety, a Washington, D.C.-based nonprofit focusing on food and agriculture issues, told Mongabay. She is one of the attorneys representing 12 different organizations â€" which together comprise hundreds of thousands of members â€" in a class action lawsuit filed in the eastern district court of Louisiana on February 12. The plaintiffs are suing high-up officials at NOAA and its National Marine Fisheries Service, as well as the U.S. Secretary of Commerce.


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## saltaholic

Aquaculture info

http://sero.nmfs.noaa.gov/sustainable_fisheries/gulf_fisheries/aquaculture/


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## Kenner21

cuzn dave said:


> Is that Cowboy in the background at the start?
> If any recreational fishermen are not pizzed off about this then you're not paying attention!


Yessir, founding member of the snapper mafia and EDF shill


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## Fish monger

cuzn dave said:


> Is that Cowboy in the background at the start?
> If any recreational fishermen are not pizzed off about this then you're not paying attention!


I hear that mike Jennings got a new boat with the catch share permits on it I guess you can book a trip and buy your fish back


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## trapper67

Fish monger said:


> I hear that mike Jennings got a new boat with the catch share permits on it I guess you can book a trip and buy your fish back


Copied from FB

Mike Jennings I stand to make a profit and a living in the industry I have been a part of for many years. And I intend to make as large a profit as I can. I'm a red blooded American capitalist. And proud to be one Matt. I made a profit today. Had both my boats fishing again.


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## hilton

He can probably double his profits now that the Gulf Council has given the charter sector about double what it should have with AM 40. 

Where did those extra fish come from? 

Stolen from the private recs, thus the 10 days for us, 45 days for them this year.

FRA's lawsuit addresses that illegal theft directly.

Not capitalism by the way - when the government decides who the winners/losers are instead of the marketplace, it's called socialism.


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## Mikeyhunts

hilton said:


> He can probably double his profits now that the Gulf Council has given the charter sector about double what it should have with AM 40.
> 
> Where did those extra fish come from?
> 
> Stolen from the private recs, thus the 10 days for us, 45 days for them this year.
> 
> FRA's lawsuit addresses that illegal theft directly.
> 
> Not capitalism by the way - when the government decides who the winners/losers are instead of the marketplace, it's called socialism.


What he says!!!!!!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Momma's Worry

*Snapper Wars*

If the supposed intent of Sector Separation was to keep each sector "separate", then why are these EDF-funded commercial and charter hypocrites sticking their noses into OUR sector?

the commercial will never go for state control and I see them fighting it with everything they have and they have a lot........I also see Sysco has a lot of stroke and influence at high levels ...something I never noticed before...$$$......


----------



## Kenner21

Not separate sectors that would have been illegal , sub-sectors


----------



## silentpardner

> If the supposed intent of Sector Separation was to keep each sector "separate", then why are these EDF-funded commercial and charter hypocrites sticking their noses into OUR sector?


 They have been "sticking their noses into OUR sector" for a LONG time now. That is one of the primary reasons we have this mess right now. The charter fishermen are just the latest problem, they are now allowed to fish a disproportional amount of time in Federal GOM water compared to private recs, but their catch is reported as part of the private recs share under MS Act. This was as a result of a deal they made with the "Pure Commercials" to support catch shares.

The separation of the Charter guys from the private rec fishing regulations, in order to allow them to make more money, by enabling them to fish when the majority of the MS Act recreational sector CANNOT fish is ILLEGAL under the MS ACT. I have my fingers crossed that the current lawsuit from the FRA can be successful, but I fear that the precedent that was set in the prior suit filed in LA will be detrimental to the current Motion for Summary Judgement filed in FL.

I fear that the only way private recs will even have a Red Snapper season in the future will be if this Motion is granted in our favor, but I am certain that the battle will not be over. I forsee the EDF spending unlimited money on this issue, through appeals and counter-motions, if a decision results in a successful effort by us as private recs. I believe this is precisely the reason the EDF supported splitting the private recs from the Charter boat business in the first place.

I have come to the realization recently that the only way to actually have private recreational fishing in perpetuity for the Red Snapper at this point would be to press for the elimination of the entire commercial fishery, even though I am fully aware of the fact that there are PLENTY of these fish to support both a robust commercial fishery at current levels of allowable catch *and* a 4 fish 365 day private recreational season on them around the *ENTIRE GOM*. 
If this motion fails to resolve our private rec predicament, and I fear the worst, I will be forced, as a private rec, to take the position that all GOM Wild Reef Fish should be banned to commercial fishing. Force the commercial industry to use aquaculture.

I think that taking a position to completely eliminate commercial fishing for all reef fish in the Gulf of Mexico would garner support from the leftist loonies that are currently blindly supporting the EDF. In other words, I support using the same under-handed dirty tricks to support our rec cause that "they", (the commercial Kingpins like Buddy Guindon, and the CFA guides like Mike Jennings), under EDF guidance, have successfully used against us to this point. I am prepared to *be* the guy they say I am already!  
Harnessing the power of stupidity should NOT be eliminated from our private rec playbook, in my opinion, and I would personally like to see a LOT MORE shows like the NatGeo BigFishTx fiasco on TV!  I believe that shows like this one will have a very damaging effect on commercial fishing for wild reef fish in the GOM. "They" say on their shows that I AM AGAINST THEIR BUSINESS, "they" don't know me, but OK, I can roll with that if that's what "they" want


----------



## silentpardner

You see amigos? 
*When I have no Federal Red Snapper season that I can fish, I have absolutely nothing left to lose to "they" * Think about it


----------



## RUFcaptain

hilton said:


> He can probably double his profits now that the Gulf Council has given the charter sector about double what it should have with AM 40.
> 
> Where did those extra fish come from?
> 
> Stolen from the private recs, thus the 10 days for us, 45 days for them this year.
> 
> FRA's lawsuit addresses that illegal theft directly.
> 
> Not capitalism by the way - when the government decides who the winners/losers are instead of the marketplace, it's called socialism.


That's right, one of the prime tenets of socialism is some are more equal than others. This bum in Galveston is just another Marxist thug.
Google Agenda 21...


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## gater

*Katies*



gethookedadventures01 said:


> Looks like he's trying to call us out.


The people in that line look like some of Walmart's finest. They must be there buying dead Shad, they dang sure ain't buying a $140 snapper.


----------



## Dufrsp31

gater said:


> The people in that line look like some of Walmart's finest. They must be there buying dead Shad, they dang sure ain't buying a $140 snapper.


...dead shad...lol :rotfl:


----------



## saltaholic

Kenner21 said:


> Not separate sectors that would have been illegal , sub-sectors


Sad but true

Hopefully this FRA lawsuit can change that


----------



## C BISHOP

gater said:


> The people in that line look like some of Walmart's finest. They must be there buying dead Shad, they dang sure ain't buying a $140 snapper.





Dufrsp31 said:


> ...dead shad...lol :rotfl:


:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:.....probably asked all the spring breakers to stand out front for a pic then they saw how much the snaps were and left.


----------



## Kylie

hilton said:


> He can probably double his profits now that the Gulf Council has given the charter sector about double what it should have with AM 40.
> 
> Where did those extra fish come from?
> 
> Stolen from the private recs, thus the 10 days for us, 45 days for them this year.
> 
> FRA's lawsuit addresses that illegal theft directly.
> 
> Not capitalism by the way - when the government decides who the winners/losers are instead of the marketplace, it's called socialism.


he asked a guy on texags to go fight him for calling him a liberal ha


----------



## Mad Mike

hilton said:


> He can probably double his profits now that the Gulf Council has given the charter sector about double what it should have with AM 40.
> 
> Where did those extra fish come from?
> 
> Stolen from the private recs, thus the 10 days for us, 45 days for them this year.
> 
> FRA's lawsuit addresses that illegal theft directly.
> 
> Not capitalism by the way - when the government decides who the winners/losers are instead of the marketplace, it's called socialism.


Is there a list of Charter guys (guides) that got part of the snapper quota like Jennings?


----------



## Liquid Assets

They are getting really pissy about all of the 1 star reviews.


----------



## Get'n Jiggy

Holy mother of baby Jesus.. 

Look at all those FAT communist


----------



## hookN

Wow....Communist! Peeps dope it's taking over your brains.
Wal-Mart LOL ,let's see what's next .


----------



## manintheboat

This was linked on the Tigerdroppings discussion. Read it. It just shows that the EDF are playing chess while the rest of us are playing checkers. They are winning. Big time. We aren't.

http://www.heritage.org/research/re...sham-litigation-the-sue-and-settle-phenomenon


----------



## Mako-Wish

Here is a link if you would like to leave feedback to the NatGeo Channel. 
http://help.nationalgeographic.com/customer/portal/emails/new

I have copy and pasted my feedback:
I am writing to show my disappointment in the Nat Geo Channel airing the show Big Fish Texas. This show revolves around an arrogant kingpin in the commercial fishing industry that is using this platform to push his agenda that recreational fishermen are a detriment to the red snapper fishery. There are so many fallacies and inaccuracies in this show it makes me sick to watch it. 
While this show may appeal to the general public that have no clue of what is happening along the Gulf Coast, any recreational fisherman with any interest in the Gulf red snapper fishery is furious that Nat Geo is allowing Big Fish Texas to preach about rebuilding the snapper fishery, while hauling in tens of thousands of pounds daily. Recreational fisherman are allowed a 9 day season, of 2 fish per day for the year. Buddy Guindon has lead the lobbying and lawsuits that has lead to this ridiculously short season. 
Here are a few links to show the displeasure of the recreational fisherman along the Gulf Coast.
http://2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/showthread.php?t=1785722

http://www.pensacolafishingforum.com...me-off-676657/

http://www.thehulltruth.com/gulf-coa...p-fishing.html

http://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/o...pper/62367307/

http://forums.floridasportsman.com/s...Big-Fish-Texas

http://360tuna.com/threads/i-hope-th...-attack.46380/

http://texags.com/forums/34/topics/2730872

If this show is picked up for a second season you will be losing a long time customer of your programming.
Regards, 
Chris Bartley


----------



## Mikeyhunts

Great letter!!! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Mikeyhunts

Email sent.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Liquid Assets

Done!


----------



## sotexhookset

Let Nat Geo keep airing those Gd morons self induced demise due to their overloaded arrogance. I think it's fng hilarious.


----------



## billyc333

Ok, guys, enough is ENOUGH!
Stop with the emails asking me to start posting again.
As of today, I'm not going to even sign in.
I'm gone! 
Get over it!
Move on!
One last note of interest.
Some interesting statistics about NatGeo's Big Fish Texas & Buddy G. thread:
Comparison of record thread.

THREAD: Deep Water Fish
STARTED: 1/10/2013 to 3/21/2016
DAYS: 3 Years, 2 Months
PAGES: 19
VIEWS: 1,415,445
Number of Posters: Several hundred
REPLIES: 180

THREAD: National Geographic show on Buddy Guindon
STARTED: 1/28/2016 to 3/21/2016
DAYS: 49 DAYS
PAGES: 87
VIEWS: 86,720
Number of Posters: Only a Few Dozen
REPLIES: 862

Bill Cochrane Sr.


----------



## sotexhookset

Lmao! Nerves or nervous? They're pretty much the same dam thing. Lol


----------



## Never easy

billyc333 said:


> Ok, guys, enough is ENOUGH!
> Stop with the emails asking me to start posting again.
> *As of today, I'm not going to even sign in.
> I'm gone!
> *Get over it!
> Move on!
> One last note of interest.
> Some interesting statistics about NatGeo's Big Fish Texas & Buddy G. thread:
> Comparison of record thread.
> 
> THREAD: Deep Water Fish
> STARTED: 1/10/2013 to 3/21/2016
> DAYS: 3 Years, 2 Months
> PAGES: 19
> 
> VIEWS: 1,415,445
> Number of Posters: Several hundred
> REPLIES: 180
> 
> THREAD: National Geographic show on Buddy Guindon
> STARTED: 1/28/2016 to 3/21/2016
> DAYS: 49 DAYS
> PAGES: 87
> VIEWS: 86,720
> Number of Posters: Only a Few Dozen
> REPLIES: 862
> 
> Bill Cochrane Sr.


...


----------



## Mako-Wish

billyc333 said:


> Ok, guys, enough is ENOUGH!
> Stop with the emails asking me to start posting again.
> As of today, I'm not going to even sign in.
> I'm gone!
> Get over it!
> Move on!
> 
> Bill Cochrane Sr.


Bubba gave you your interwebs privileges back already? Or did you sneak on line when he went to work this morning?


----------



## Mad Mike

The old drunk won't stay away for long.


----------



## silentpardner

Excellent link MIB! Green to you sir!  


> This was linked on the Tigerdroppings discussion. Read it. It just shows that the EDF are playing chess while the rest of us are playing checkers. They are winning. Big time. We aren't.


----------



## Liquid Assets

Mad Mike said:


> The old drunk won't stay away for long.


I wonder if anyone even sent him an email or if they were imagined.....


----------



## Get'n Jiggy

Anthony (Hookn) take your bipolar meds before posting... 

You POS


----------



## Get'n Jiggy

Liquid Assets said:


> I wonder if anyone even sent him an email or if they were imagined.....


His entire life is a lie and fraud. If Billy is talking or typing ITS A LIE


----------



## hilton

BillyC and his arrogance and foolishness may be gone, but Big Fish Texas and all its lies, arrogance, and stupidity will long serve as an indictment of what has gone wrong with our fisheries management.

Thanks NatGeo!

Anyone got the link to the YouTube clip where Buddy calls all the Gulf Council members dumb*****?


----------



## silentpardner

> Big Fish Texas and all its lies, arrogance, and stupidity will long serve as an indictment of what has gone wrong with our fisheries management.
> 
> Thanks NatGeo!


 Green to you as well sir!


----------



## Fin-Atic

huÂ·bris
Ëˆ(h)yoÍžobrÉ™s/
noun
excessive pride or self-confidence.
synonyms:	arrogance, conceit, haughtiness, hauteur, pride, self-importance, egotism, pomposity, superciliousness, superiority; More
(in Greek tragedy) excessive pride toward or defiance of the gods, leading to nemesis.

This is the only word for those guys!

We need to find a recreational fisherman that is associated with the health department in galveston...LOL


----------



## Fired Up

looking forward to getting my 16#s in a few months - hope the fishery can support it..:rotfl:


----------



## roundman

Liquid Assets said:


> I wonder if anyone even sent him an email or if they were imagined.....


lol


----------



## silentpardner

> We need to find a recreational fisherman that is associated with the health department in galveston...LOL


 I was wondering if I was gonna be the only person that saw those blatant violations of the health code by Katie's in the pictures that were posted here in this forum. I could not believe that Kenny actually posted that photographic evidence in the first place, and I have started wondering if maybe some members of the Guindon Gang are maybe deliberately attempting to sink the ship?  I think I'll definitely be tuning into the same Nat-channel, same Nat-time next week to find out


----------



## Mako-Wish

In this weeks episode: Hans has trouble catching fish in the beginning, but then catches fish towards the end of the show. Kenny calls Hans spoiled, and Buddy calls fisherman rich and says they are killing the rescource! Tune in for compelling television!


----------



## silentpardner

> In this weeks episode: Hans has trouble catching fish in the beginning, but then catches fish towards the end of the show. Kenny calls Hans spoiled, and Buddy calls fisherman rich and says they are killing the rescource! Tune in for compelling television!


 Will Hans finally come out of the "closet"? Will Katie be forced to reveal the name of the true father of Hans-solo? Will Kennyrobin lose it and attack fat-Natman? Who will save the fat Natman from the diabolical Wreculater and "dumba$$" council of Gotham city which are holding his fortune hostage? Tune in to find out, same natchannel, same nattime!


----------



## hilton

Here's some more propaganda from 2014;
https://www.texasobserver.org/red-snapper-fishery-texas-gulf-sustainable/

It's basically an infomercial for Catch Shares, cites how recreational fishermen are a "threat" to the fishery, and even goes as far to cite Worm's paper which claimed that due to overfishing that all of the world's fish stocks would collapse by 2048, leaving only jellyfish behind. Worm's paper has long been debunked as sensationalist, alarmist propaganda designed to influence legislators at the time they were considering introducing catch shares in the Gulf - it served its purpose. Can't believe this article is still referring to that paper in 2014, many years since it was exposed as junk science.

But then again, a lot of what is written in this article is based on junk science, such as the claim that IFQs are responsible for the recovery of the Gulf red snapper fishery - completely false statement.


----------



## iridered2003

hilton said:


> BillyC and his arrogance and foolishness may be gone, but Big Fish Texas and all its lies, arrogance, and stupidity will long serve as an indictment of what has gone wrong with our fisheries management.
> 
> Thanks NatGeo!
> 
> Anyone got the link to the YouTube clip where Buddy calls all the Gulf Council members dumb*****?


im sure billyc just tired of all you're bs,lmao. you guys are funny:rotfl:


----------



## Dufrsp31

Check this out! It was posted on THT.

http://www.fda.gov/ICECI/EnforcementActions/WarningLetters/ucm152435.htm


----------



## The Last Mango

iridered2003 said:


> im sure billyc just tired of all you're bs,lmao. you guys are funny:rotfl:


Cry babies


----------



## Liquid Assets

Dufrsp31 said:


> Check this out! It was posted on THT.
> 
> http://www.fda.gov/ICECI/EnforcementActions/WarningLetters/ucm152435.htm


Looks like it's from 2009. But good info.


----------



## hilton

iridered2003 said:


> im sure billyc just tired of all you're bs,lmao. you guys are funny:rotfl:


Billy probably got 10X more **** from his fellow commercial brethren for his antics on this forum exposing the commercial red snapper industry for what it really is, and told him to keep off the internet.


----------



## WilliamH

I'm still waiting on him to send me those numbers!! :rotfl:


----------



## Makomecrazy

http://www.sportfishingmag.com/great-gulf-red-snapper-train-wreck

Great article from Sportfishing Magazine written by Dr. Bob Shipp.


----------



## Get'n Jiggy

2.8 rating on FB and dropping fast 

Keep up the good work guys!!


----------



## Chase This!

He's on to us. No more smuggling snapper into Mexico to be smuggled back into the US.


----------



## Kenner21

Everyone is after HIS fish, poor guy


----------



## hilton

Chase This! said:


> He's on to us. No more smuggling snapper into Mexico to be smuggled back into the US.


Serious case of tin foil hat going on right there!


----------



## sea sick

Now the Mexicans are after his fish!!! Haha


----------



## Hotrod

Stop watching and recording his show, network can track that stuff. I heard the ratings were bad anyway, hopefully they dont consider a season 2.


----------



## Stumpgrinder

Hotrod said:


> Stop watching and recording his show, network can track that stuff. I heard the ratings were bad anyway, hopefully they dont consider a season 2.


I hope they do. I think this show has peeved lots of recreational fishermen enough to make noise and maybe a difference.

It's criminal the way the Feds manage this fishery now. It's obscene.


----------



## hog

If interested, heres where a person can post a review Google Reviews for them


----------



## Get'n Jiggy

So his boats are the Falcon and Voyager? 

Parked side by side....

He's making it easy


----------



## sea sick

I can't wait till Katie season opens in June. Till then I'll have to catch my state water Katie's. Only 10 days of catching Katie's, what a shame!


----------



## Liquid Assets

sea sick said:


> I can't wait till Katie season opens in June. Till then I'll have to catch my state water Katie's. Only 10 days of catching Katie's, what a shame!


HAHAHA!!! Good one


----------



## hilton

This reality tv show coupled by the weekly YouTube videos of Guindon explaining yet another threat to our red snapper fishery are merely PR stunts intended to make Guindon look as if he is THE authorative "expert" on snapper in the Gulf. These sound bites can be easily sent to legislators to sway their opinions on the subject - Guindon is simply the front man for corporate interests pushing for privatization of our Public Trust Resources. In effect, it's a well orchestrated/funded mechanism for creating a fisheries management system dominated by public relation firms and law firms - not actual science.

I prefer to get my information on the subject from real experts such as Dr Bob Shipp and Greg Stunz.


----------



## saltaholic

Posted today




__ https://www.facebook.com/swsportsman/posts/10156698520925425


----------



## Momma's Worry

hilton said:


> This reality tv show coupled by the weekly YouTube videos of Guindon explaining yet another threat to our red snapper fishery are merely PR stunts intended to make Guindon look as if he is THE authorative "expert" on snapper in the Gulf. These sound bites can be easily sent to legislators to sway their opinions on the subject - Guindon is simply the front man for corporate interests pushing for privatization of our Public Trust Resources. In effect, it's a well orchestrated/funded mechanism for creating a fisheries management system dominated by public relation firms and law firms - not actual science.
> 
> I prefer to get my information on the subject from real experts such as Dr Bob Shipp and Greg Stunz.


Now BG has big time Sysco Foods(& HEB) and their influence supporting him....


----------



## Txfishman

Went out to dinner at Masraff's last night, their special was seared blue marlin with a peppercorn sauce. I almost fell out of my chair.


----------



## Cavjock22

Hotrod said:


> Stop watching and recording his show, network can track that stuff. I heard the ratings were bad anyway, hopefully they dont consider a season 2.


I am not an off shore guy so dont keep up with the politics but after reading up on this I am changing my DVR settings to not record any more...


----------



## T.C.

It's pure trash


----------



## The Last Mango

Txfishman said:


> Went out to dinner at Masraff's last night, their special was seared blue marlin with a peppercorn sauce. I almost fell out of my chair.


The loin of Blue Marlin is delicious


----------



## hillbilly deluxe

There people every where like this guy and not just for fishing. Every walk of life. The gov doesn't want us to be able to take care of our selves. That way they can control you!!!! You can be a blind man and see that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## cuzn dave

hillbilly deluxe said:


> There people every where like this guy and not just for fishing. Every walk of life. The gov doesn't want us to be able to take care of our selves. That way they can control you!!!! You can be a blind man and see that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


This includes your governor.
There is a well known photo of him , BG, Cowboy and a group of commercials 
wearing the biggest uh Cheshire cat eating grins.


----------



## cadjockey

cuzn dave said:


> This includes your governor.
> There is a well known photo of him , BG, Cowboy and a group of commercials
> wearing the biggest uh Cheshire cat eating grins.


Well, we talk **** on the internet and they write checks. Go figure...


----------



## WoundedMinnow

Cavjock22 said:


> I am not an off shore guy so dont keep up with the politics but after reading up on this I am changing my DVR settings to not record any more...


If we allow this kind of stuff to happen to red snapper. Those ******** will try the same thing with red drum etc. Then it won't just be an offshore fisherman's problem. A good ole protest should be arranged and at least it will shine a much brighter spot light on the issue and get the general public educated on the issue. The average person does not know about public resources being given away to the commercial industry.


----------



## bwguardian

cuzn dave said:


> This includes your governor.
> There is a well known photo of him , BG, Cowboy and a group of commercials
> wearing the biggest uh Cheshire cat eating grins.


Yup, and there are many other politicians with them in the pic...


----------



## Jolly Roger

pics means nothing, they are small business owners in Texas of course he is going to pose in a pic with them. 

The fact the governor once fought protect Texas REC seasons from the FEDs goes completely unsaid because of a pic..... No wonder RECs are losing and our season is down to nothing, so many are distracted from the real problem.


Worried about facebook, pics that mean nothing, etc.... all the time the FEDs, EDF, commercial are focused on one goal. RECs are sitting on there *** talking about facebook and a pic.


The enemy of REC fishermen learned how to focus there effort to achieve there goals long time ago, so far RECs are just fighting everyone, suing everyone, lawsuits all the time, and achieving nothing.


----------



## saltaholic

Jolly Roger said:


> pics means nothing, they are small business owners in Texas of course he is going to pose in a pic with them.
> 
> The fact the governor once fought protect Texas REC seasons from the FEDs goes completely unsaid because of a pic..... No wonder RECs are losing and our season is down to nothing, so many are distracted from the real problem.
> 
> Worried about facebook, pics that mean nothing, etc.... all the time the FEDs, EDF, commercial are focused on one goal. RECs are sitting on there *** talking about facebook and a pic.
> 
> The enemy of REC fishermen learned how to focus there effort to achieve there goals, so far RECs are just fighting everyone.


You are correct that one pic was during a Galveston small business owners campaign shoot and has nothing to do with snapper issue but of course it's being used that way...lol


----------



## Kylie

looks like the public comment times for the gulf council meeting are 1345-1700 on the 6th

Doubletree
6505 Interstate Highway 35-N
Austin, TX
512-454-3737

http://gulfcouncil.org/council_meetings/BriefingMaterials/BB-04-2016/A%20-%203%20April%20Combined%20Committee%20and%20Council%20Agendas.pdf


----------



## Jolly Roger

saltaholic said:


> You are correct that one pic was during a Galveston small business owners campaign shoot and has nothing to do with snapper issue but of course it's being used that way...lol


but that does not matter, REC will ***** about it like it means something. They will ignore the real problem because they have a halfass focus of there anger.

It is sad and comical the way EDF works compared to what the REC do. So much focus, one minded goal orientated work on the part of EDF, commercial and now the charter fleet.

REC's flounder around like ducks stuck in mud. We do not have a MFing chance.


----------



## popeye_iv

Stumpgrinder said:


> I hope they do. I think this show has peeved lots of recreational fishermen enough to make noise and maybe a difference.


Outside of the Gulf, and Texas in particular, I don't think anyone gives a rats derriÃ¨re.


----------



## Jolly Roger

all this anger, energy and time wasted on facebook. Who in the hell thinks facebook will make a difference? will change anything? Why waste your timee and effort on a pointless cause when the same time and effort could make a difference? Why not instead of the wasted effort on facebook, send emails to politicians in support of State control?

It is a shallow, social media driven, making people feel like they done something when they have done nothing waste of time. Whole thing is a Fing joke.


----------



## sea sick

Write all the letters you want to politicians. ...they'll only give a darn if it has a fat check in it...


----------



## Jolly Roger

sea sick said:


> Write all the letters you want to politicians. ...they'll only give a darn if it has a fat check in it...


yeah, instead of fat checking it to politicians RECs are wasting money on lawsuits that gain nothing...... a WHOLE LOT of wasted "fat check" on lawsuits that mean nothing.

Money talks and money gets things done, EDF knows this, commercial knows this, CFA is getting on the band wagon...... RECs are chasing there tail filing lawsuits.... and have been for years


----------



## Kylie

im telling you, the pressure also needs to be put on the businesses that support them. landrys, heb, whatever other restaurants are involved. thats the way a JAG can vote with his wallet.


----------



## popeye_iv

This, gentlemen, is the rest of the non Texas Gulf Rec Fishing world.



ReelMNSurfStyle said:


> Been watching the show big fish texas. We are gonna take a ride to galveston this weekend for our anniversary. Was thinking about stopping by and getting some snapper and grouper. I was wondering if any 2coolers have shopped there and if the prices were fair or inflated due to their superstar status.


----------



## INDIANAINTEXAS

Anybody out there with deep pockets and and the will to change this? Start a fund to Out bid them for the fishing rights and leave their ships at the dock. I'm good for a C note.


----------



## hilton

Jolly Roger said:


> It is sad and comical the way EDF works compared to what the REC do. So much focus, one minded goal orientated work on the part of EDF, commercial and now the charter fleet.


EDF, commercial, and charter have been one and the same for many years now - The Shareholders Alliance and Charter Fishermans Association were formed/funded by EDF as front groups - the Alliance even laundered $25,000 for EDF to give to CFA for it's startup about 5-6 years ago. Getting on the bandwagon now? Not hardly.

It's been the plan for many many years now - IFQs for the commercial and for-hire with the last remaining part being fish tags for the private recs.


----------



## OAKISLANDER

*Snappers*

I am wiling to put up a hundred bucks to send someone to Austin to speak for the re'cs. I haven't went out for snaps in 5 years just not worth it. If one of you guys got the balls to get there I will put up more. Get something going and I will help fund . My pay pal works.


----------



## hilton

OAKISLANDER said:


> I am wiling to put up a hundred bucks to send someone to Austin to speak for the re'cs. I haven't went out for snaps in 5 years just not worth it. If one of you guys got the balls to get there I will put up more. Get something going and I will help fund . My pay pal works.


It's not about red snapper and never has been - it's about every single federally-managed fish that swims out there - they are just starting with snapper.


----------



## Kylie

OAKISLANDER said:


> I am wiling to put up a hundred bucks to send someone to Austin to speak for the re'cs. I haven't went out for snaps in 5 years just not worth it. If one of you guys got the balls to get there I will put up more. Get something going and I will help fund . My pay pal works.


there is a public forum on april 6th at the gulf council meeting in austin. no need to pay someone, just go and talk at their meeting!


----------



## Jolly Roger

Kylie said:


> there is a public forum on april 6th at the gulf council meeting in austin. no need to pay someone, just go and talk at their meeting!


and that is a complete waste of time, it is a dog and pony show always has been. Nothing and I do mean NOTHING has ever came from it that has benefited REC anglers. After all these years of going to these meetings, RECs have almost no season. Why does anyone think this will all of a sudden things will change?

Until REC anglers figure out that there is nothing to gain, nothing we can change and no way RECs will ever make a difference in the current FED system RECs are just in a endless cycle of wasting time, money and effort. Go sue someone else, go talk to the gulf council again, go complain about quota distribution. How many times do RECs have to do these same things over and over before they pull there heads out of there arse and see it has solved nothing in years and will never solve anything.

Until RECs band together and force state control thru, we will continue to waste resource and achieve almost nothing. The ONLY gains REC have made in the last ten years has been state control out to nine miles for gulf states. Everything else has been for nothing.

yall can keep fighting the same loosing battles over and over again, I am not. State control is the only answer, it is the only thing RECs should be focused on.


----------



## Kylie

i understand that james, but a lot of people have never been a part of any type of political process, and if they start now and see that it does nothing, they will become as passionate as you. if more and more people start to support state control, and are more exposed to what is really going on, it cant be a bad thing at all. when people see how railroaded recs are, they will be more enraged than they already are. 

again, starting to hit the people that are profiting off ARS is a great place to start. my wife and i will not support landrys concepts, any of the yagas concepts on the island, not going to heb anymore etc. im trying to take my dollars elsewhere, but its a drop in the bucket. others need to also vote with their wallet as well.


----------



## Kylie

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/712886367005450240
feel free to retweet any and all please. i should also tweet the rest of the gulf states coastal reps as well as the rest of the people on the committee that heard the testimony that jolly roger posted earlier in this thread.


----------



## Sabine Flounder Pounder

Kylie said:


> there is a public forum on april 6th at the gulf council meeting in austin. no need to pay someone, just go and talk at their meeting!


 For seven years the Recs testified at the meetings concerning Amm40 ( sector seperation) ,of the 1000a online comments 97% said NO, councils own committee said NO, but they passed it anyway. Help yourself wasting your time and money there.


----------



## Kylie

Sabine Flounder Pounder said:


> For seven years the Recs testified at the meetings concerning Amm40 ( sector seperation) ,of the 1000a online comments 97% said NO, councils own committee said NO, but they passed it anyway. Help yourself wasting your time and money there.


im not spending any money, was trying to keep the other gentleman from spending money. im in SD right now for work so couldnt go if i wanted to.


----------



## Sabine Flounder Pounder

Kylie said:


> im not spending any money, was trying to keep the other gentleman from spending money. im in SD right now for work so couldnt go if i wanted to.


Was educating the Johnny come Latelys


----------



## saltaholic

So when is someone going to step up locally and organize a group like FRA did in Florida? 

Or even ask FRA to let there be a Texas chapter....

This is what we need, someone that can tell us exactly what to do and who to contact plus raise money for lobbying and lawyers


----------



## Liquid Assets

Sabine Flounder Pounder said:


> Was educating the Johnny come Latelys


Some people might see the voice of opposition being applied to the shareholders social media sites (Katies, etc.) as wasted efforts and they are absolutely welcome to their own opinion.

It may not change anyone's minds overall, or dissuade a consumer from contributing to these people. However, the voices exposing lies on their own websites really chaps their *****.


----------



## INDIANAINTEXAS

You want to have an effect on the show. Let Nat Geo know how you feel. It won't have any bearing on the fishing quota but they may cancel the show.


----------



## ftw66

Jolly Roger said:


> and that is a complete waste of time, it is a dog and pony show always has been. Nothing and I do mean NOTHING has ever came from it that has benefited REC anglers. After all these years of going to these meetings, RECs have almost no season. Why does anyone think this will all of a sudden things will change?
> 
> Until REC anglers figure out that there is nothing to gain, nothing we can change and no way RECs will ever make a difference in the current FED system RECs are just in a endless cycle of wasting time, money and effort. Go sue someone else, go talk to the gulf council again, go complain about quota distribution. How many times do RECs have to do these same things over and over before they pull there heads out of there arse and see it has solved nothing in years and will never solve anything.
> 
> Until RECs band together and force state control thru, we will continue to waste resource and achieve almost nothing. The ONLY gains REC have made in the last ten years has been state control out to nine miles for gulf states. Everything else has been for nothing.
> 
> yall can keep fighting the same loosing battles over and over again, I am not. State control is the only answer, it is the only thing RECs should be focused on.


I'm in, where do I send the check?


----------



## Jolly Roger

ftw66 said:


> I'm in, where do I send the check?


I am sorry to say at this moment very good chance your check would be used to pay a team of lawyers to pursue pointless lawsuits that will gain nothing for REC anglers. Your time would be better spent writing a email asking CCA or FRA to become more involved with State control of the fishery and help push Bill HR3094.

While both organizations will tell you they support state control, and bill HR3094. They are not doing enough to help it. Both are to busy, to many resources and money tied up in pointless lawsuits.

While I detest the way things have happened with the commercial and CFA sectors of the current system. I hate the way the FEDs manipulate the data and change the quota around. But there is no way RECs can do anything about it or change it in the current FED system. The FED management of the fishery is the problem and until REC change the management we will gain very little.

What RECs need is a uniform voice for state control, a team to call on politicians, push state control. They should update REC anglers bi-weekly on progress, push for publications to run stories, get on news programs explaining the loss of revenue to fishing towns, etc.. Need to get organized, focused and active. Until this happens REC will keep repeating the same mistakes of the past and RECs will keep getting screwed over by the FED system of fish management and it will only get worst as more and more species of fish end up like snapper. Grouper, trigger, AJs are all already headed the way of snapper management. FEDs in time will mange all species of fish like they do snapper if they stay in control.


----------



## Liquid Assets

Jolly,
I don't disagree with you at all. I have sent and continue to communicate my positions to the elected officials in my regions. I think several people here do as well.

But, we do what we can and expose these men for what they are. Don't give them any wiggle room or public forum to spread their lies. 

I started kicking the hornets nest on the Gulf of Mexico Reef Fish Shareholders' facebook page. Not a bad place to get them all at once......

Scott Hickman Says sates with 365 seasons get the snapper quota in their state seasons.

Robert Michelson says there are one hundred thousand rec boats vs 40 commercial boats.


----------



## Ernest

Three basic problems here: 

1. Money - lobbying, professional presentations at meetings, credible research and litigation are expensive. Very expensive. Same with building habitat. 

There are tons of people that will donate time or provide discount services to the appropriate org., but many of them will not help people that spend their time burning bridges, screaming that the opposition are akin to the National Socialists from Germany, or claiming every that disagrees with them is corrupt, homosexual, a liar, a cheat, or a traitor. 

Nevertheless, significant cash needs to be raised yesterday. 

2. Organization - Forget the Hollywood version of a few dedicated people and the happy ending, the best chance to accomplishing some of the objectives requires a professional organization, run by credible people, that place the objectives of the org. above their ego. 

Joe the Barber might be the best snapper fisherman in the world, but that does not mean he has the knowledge or experience to run an organization, raise/manage/direct $800k, or select a winning strategy for fund raising, lobbying, or litigation. 

Professional organizations are not democracies. So, 100 Joe the Barbers can have strong feeling about a strategy or marketing campaign, but that does not trump the views of actual professionals in the particular field. 

Professional orgs. also appreciate the vast difference between doing something effectual to advance the cause and silly purse fights on FBook or incendiary (but erroneous) rhetoric. 

3. Recs are cats. Cats are near impossible to herd, particularly when there is a free rider problem. The free rider problem handicaps both fund raising and organization.


----------



## Lostinpecos

Yes, a concerted effort is needed. Must be an organized, well knowledgeable group of individuals like JR and Hilon. Its a fight not just recs, but places like academy, bass pro shops and other retail stores should be on board if not already. 
Boat manufacturers and such need to get on board as well and oil companies should chime in.


----------



## Jolly Roger

Ernest said:


> Three basic problems here:
> 
> 1. Money - lobbying, professional presentations at meetings, credible research and litigation are expensive. Very expensive. Same with building habitat.
> 
> There are tons of people that will donate time or provide discount services to the appropriate org., but many of them will not help people that spend their time burning bridges, screaming that the opposition are akin to the National Socialists from Germany, or claiming every that disagrees with them is corrupt, homosexual, a liar, a cheat, or a traitor.
> 
> Nevertheless, significant cash needs to be raised yesterday.
> 
> 2. Organization - Forget the Hollywood version of a few dedicated people and the happy ending, the best chance to accomplishing some of the objectives requires a professional organization, run by credible people, that place the objectives of the org. above their ego.
> 
> Joe the Barber might be the best snapper fisherman in the world, but that does not mean he has the knowledge or experience to run an organization, raise/manage/direct $800k, or select a winning strategy for fund raising, lobbying, or litigation.
> 
> Professional organizations are not democracies. So, 100 Joe the Barbers can have strong feeling about a strategy or marketing campaign, but that does not trump the views of actual professionals in the particular field.
> 
> Professional orgs. also appreciate the vast difference between doing something effectual to advance the cause and silly purse fights on FBook or incendiary (but erroneous) rhetoric.
> 
> 3. Recs are cats. Cats are near impossible to herd, particularly when there is a free rider problem. The free rider problem handicaps both fund raising and organization.


I hate it when we agree



Ernest said:


> There are tons of people that will donate time or provide discount services to the appropriate org., but many of them will not help people that spend their time burning bridges, screaming that the opposition are akin to the National Socialists from Germany, or claiming every that disagrees with them is corrupt, homosexual, a liar, a cheat, or a traitor.
> .


this is all these lawsuits are doing, the RECs are slinging **** at everyone. The endless parade of lawsuits have done nothing but make RECs the enemy to everyone with very little focus on the real problem.



Lostinpecos said:


> Its a fight not just recs, but places like academy, bass pro shops and other retail stores should be on board if not already.
> Boat manufacturers and such need to get on board as well and oil companies should chime in.


there is a very large list of manufactures, retailers, etc... that have shown support for State Control and backed Bill HR3094.


----------



## saltaholic

What happened to the RFA?? Didn't they used to post here??

I remember Jim smarr announcing big plans on one of these forums just a few months ago


----------



## trapper67

saltaholic said:


> What happened to the RFA?? Didn't they used to post here??
> 
> I remember Jim smarr announcing big plans on one of these forums just a few months ago


The lawyer for the RFA posted up on this forum......

http://www.pensacolafishingforum.com/f21/cca-lawsuit-update-603601/index2/


----------



## saltaholic

trapper67 said:


> The lawyer for the RFA posted up on this forum......
> 
> http://www.pensacolafishingforum.com/f21/cca-lawsuit-update-603601/index2/


No that's the FRA lol (fishing rights alliance)

I was asking about the RFA


----------



## trapper67

saltaholic said:


> No that's the FRA lol (fishing rights alliance)
> 
> I was asking about the RFA


oops.........


----------



## Kylie

Liquid Assets said:


> Jolly,
> I don't disagree with you at all. I have sent and continue to communicate my positions to the elected officials in my regions. I think several people here do as well.
> 
> But, we do what we can and expose these men for what they are. Don't give them any wiggle room or public forum to spread their lies.
> 
> I started kicking the hornets nest on the Gulf of Mexico Reef Fish Shareholders' facebook page. Not a bad place to get them all at once......
> 
> Scott Hickman Says sates with 365 seasons get the snapper quota in their state seasons.
> 
> Robert Michelson says there are one hundred thousand rec boats vs 40 commercial boats.


in the earlier pages on this thread someone sid there were a million rec boats. :headknock


----------



## Snookered

Liquid Assets said:


> I started kicking the hornets nest on the Gulf of Mexico Reef Fish Shareholders' facebook page. Not a bad place to get them all at once......
> 
> Scott Hickman Says


 careful....scott is such a poor sport, and vindictive, that if you have a different outlook than he does, he'll get personal with you and post your cell number on the page and call you out in every conceivable way....

true story.....
snookered


----------



## Liquid Assets

Snookered said:


> careful....scott is such a poor sport, and vindictive, that if you have a different outlook than he does, he'll get personal with you and post your cell number on the page and call you out in every conceivable way....
> 
> true story.....
> snookered


He can try all he wants. I am nothing special so it wouldn't be worth his time. My number isn't listed anywhere, my TX numbers aren't visible and I could care less about the sticker on my boat. All he would be doing is picking on a poor widower that had to raise his kids by himself and I would let everyone know. Oh yea, there is always at least one highly decorated cop (not me) on the boat.


----------



## Fired Up

hilton said:


> It's not about red snapper and never has been - it's about every single federally-managed fish that swims out there - they are just starting with snapper.


Yep - looks like they are doing a good job of hammering the grouper and tiles.. 5 years from now we won't be able to keep any of those..


----------



## sea sick

I went to the fishing show last weekend, ,, I didn't see hickman or circle h in any booths... that would be a nice outing for him


----------



## roundman

Fired Up said:


> Yep - looks like they are doing a good job of hammering the grouper and tiles.. 5 years from now we won't be able to keep any of those..


and guess who it will be blamed on :headknock


----------



## roundman

from cfa fb

The shrimpers used to be the problem, then it was the commercial fishermen, then it was congress, then it was the charterboats, then it was the council, now it's the courts. 
Meanwhile, the CCA right wing elitist mentality has never changed. If they just fix the courts, everything will be better. 
At some point, it is time to step back and think maybe they're just plain wrong. 
http://www.joincca.org/articles/785


----------



## manintheboat

roundman said:


> from cfa fb
> 
> Meanwhile, the CCA right wing elitist mentality has never changed. If they just fix the courts, everything will be better.
> http://www.joincca.org/articles/785


Wow, I didn't realize that the CFA was so opposed to the "right wing". How very EDF of them.


----------



## hilton

CFA/EDF just intervened in the FRA lawsuit on AM 40.


----------



## saltaholic

hilton said:


> CFA/EDF just intervened in the FRA lawsuit on AM 40.


Not surprised at all....

Now can we please get a list of all the CFA involved captains?? Would like to know exactly who is fighting against us.....


----------



## hilton

http://www.joincfa.org

Go to Guide Finder


----------



## hilton

roundman said:


> from cfa fb
> 
> The shrimpers used to be the problem, then it was the commercial fishermen, then it was congress, then it was the charterboats, then it was the council, now it's the courts.
> Meanwhile, the CCA right wing elitist mentality has never changed. If they just fix the courts, everything will be better.
> At some point, it is time to step back and think maybe they're just plain wrong.
> http://www.joincca.org/articles/785


Everything was fine until EDF hijacked the process in 2007, which coincidentally was the same year that: 1) Catch Shares were introduced in the Gulf, and 2) things started to go to hell in a hand basket for the Gulf recreational anglers.

Actually, it's no coincidence - it's DIRECTLY related.


----------



## The Last Mango

What's the problem?


----------



## PL

Finally watched the show and wanted to barf/break the tv in the hotel seeing that POS complain about us "1%er" offshore fisherman. Where is the RFA on this btw? Saw the FRA referenced earlier in the thread, but nothing about the RFA.


----------



## Jolly Roger

hilton said:


> CFA/EDF just intervened in the FRA lawsuit on AM 40.


Of course they did, they know the more money, time and resources the REC's waste on these pointless lawsuit is that much less the RECs can put toward pushing state control.

Once again RECs are wallowing around fighting over nothing and wasting millions of dollars in the process.

Have yall ever stopped and thought for a second that maybe the FEDs make these types of moves just to **** RECs off and make them waste time with lawsuits???? it is called a rope a dope and RECs have been falling for it for a very long time, common redirection, and organizations like EDF are masters at it and RECs are fools for falling for it so often for so long. Would have thought by now most would have noticed that the endless lawsuits in the FED management system have accomplished nothing, but alas, no.

Hey look a squirrel..... and RECs will chase it each and ever time


----------



## c1

Jolly Roger said:


> Of course they did, they know the more money, time and resources the REC's waste on these pointless lawsuit is that much less the RECs can put toward pushing state control.
> 
> Once again RECs are wallowing around fighting over nothing and wasting millions of dollars in the process.
> 
> Have yall ever stopped and thought for a second that maybe the FEDs make these types of moves just to **** RECs off and make them waste time with lawsuits???? it is called a rope a dope and RECs have been falling for it for a very long time, common redirection, and organizations like EDF are masters at it and RECs are fools for falling for it so often for so long. Would have thought by now most would have noticed that the endless lawsuits in the FED management system have accomplished nothing, but alas, no.
> 
> Hey look a squirrel..... and RECs will chase it each and ever time


I don't know who you are Jolly Roger, but you sound a lot like Buddy. Commercials make millions of dollars from public waters, and are never happy."Pure greed" It's amusing to me that you don't believe recreational fisherman can't vent our frustrations on a public forum. Its' amusing, but not surprising. I'm personally glad that Buddy wants his 15 minutes of fame, because it brings awareness to how corrupt the system really is. Hopefully the show to be picked up next year. And by way, the commercial fishing industry has filed more than their share of lawsuits. Always wanting more and blaming the RECS.


----------



## dbarham

c1 said:


> I don't know who you are Jolly Roger, but you sound a lot like Buddy. Commercials make millions of dollars from public waters, and are never happy."Pure greed" It's amusing to me that you don't believe recreational fisherman can't vent our frustrations on a public forum. Its' amusing, but not surprising. I'm personally glad that Buddy wants his 15 minutes of fame, because it brings awareness to how corrupt the system really is. Hopefully the show to be picked up next year. And by way, the commercial fishing industry has filed more than their share of lawsuits. Always wanting more and blaming the RECS.


If you don't know Jolly Roger you are way lost he had been there and done it!


----------



## sea sick

Hahaha that's funny....


----------



## trapper67

The Last Mango said:


> What's the problem?


YOU and your kind.....................simple...................duhhhhhhhhhhhhhh !!!


----------



## JFolm

c1 said:


> I don't know who you are Jolly Roger, but you sound a lot like Buddy.


If you posted more than 5-10 times a year then you might recognize his handle.


----------



## trapper67

o


----------



## trapper67

o


----------



## saltaholic

Simmer down!! recs fighting each other is what the opposition wants!!! We all want the same end game and don't always have to agree....... I recommend we all support Cca and FRA plus send as much as we can to support hr3094. 

An organized local group is what we need tho


----------



## trapper67

c1 said:


> I don't know who you are Jolly Roger, but you sound a lot like Buddy. Commercials make millions of dollars from public waters, and are never happy."Pure greed" It's amusing to me that you don't believe recreational fisherman can't vent our frustrations on a public forum. Its' amusing, but not surprising. I'm personally glad that Buddy wants his 15 minutes of fame, because it brings awareness to how corrupt the system really is. Hopefully the show to be picked up next year. And by way, the commercial fishing industry has filed more than their share of lawsuits. Always wanting more and blaming the RECS.


 I got to get my buddy's back here. If you do not know who Jolly is then you have NOT been around in a FEW years. Look at his threads, posts and whatever..........You are barking up the wrong tree bud............


----------



## c1

My apologies to Jolly Roger. I miss took his last post. I'm wanting to do my part as a recreational fisher on this matter. Where should I mail a monetary donation? RFA?


----------



## trapper67

c1 said:


> My apologies to Jolly Roger. I miss took his last post. I'm wanting to do my part as a recreational fisher on this matter. Where should I mail a monetary donation? RFA?


 Thank you sir.............heck, I will give you a green too!


----------



## Sabine Flounder Pounder

trapper67 said:


> I got to get my buddy's back here. If you do not know who Jolly is then you have NOT been around in a FEW years. Look at his threads, posts and whatever..........You are barking up the wrong tree bud............


X2


----------



## Sabine Flounder Pounder

saltaholic said:


> Simmer down!! recs fighting each other is what the opposition wants!!! We all want the same end game and don't always have to agree....... I recommend we all support Cca and FRA plus send as much as we can to support hr3094.
> 
> An organized local group is what we need tho


salt, I think that you're dead on. The lawsuits may not solve the problem, but would surely give traction to he 3094


----------



## hog

hilton said:


> http://www.joincfa.org
> 
> Go to Guide Finder


Guide finder


----------



## awesum

And I'll step out of the darkness for a moment here to say that if you don't recognize *c1* and know who he is he happens to be one of the most noted red snapper fishermen (if not the most) on the entire Texas coast . He knows what is going on with the fishery on all sides and we should be glad that as a charter captain he is not in that group that is fighting against us recs here.

I, for one, appreciate that Carl.


----------



## saltaholic

hog said:


> Guide finder


Wow!

Very disappointing to see that allot of guys I know and have chartered are on that list


----------



## Snookered

awesum said:


> And I'll step out of the darkness for a moment here to say that if you don't recognize *c1* and know who he is he happens to be one of the most noted red snapper fishermen (if not the most) on the entire Texas coast . He knows what is going on with the fishery on all sides and we should be glad that as a charter captain he is not in that group that is fighting against us recs here.
> 
> I, for one, appreciate that Carl.


awesome! I'd like to hear more from Carl., err, c1...I know that there are charter captains out there that have not and do not buy into the CFA and their tactics/goals, and do not agree with the way things are going with snapper management as a whole, including IFQ's being forced on the CFH sector....
snookered


----------



## Jolly Roger

c1 said:


> I don't know who you are Jolly Roger, but you sound a lot like Buddy. Commercials make millions of dollars from public waters, and are never happy."Pure greed" It's amusing to me that you don't believe recreational fisherman can't vent our frustrations on a public forum. Its' amusing, but not surprising. I'm personally glad that Buddy wants his 15 minutes of fame, because it brings awareness to how corrupt the system really is. Hopefully the show to be picked up next year. And by way, the commercial fishing industry has filed more than their share of lawsuits. Always wanting more and blaming the RECS.


frustrations on a public forum are a good thing, ideas are shared, strategy are formed, and new people start to understand the problems. Venting on and a public forum is not much different then sitting around the bait shop drinking coffee and discussing the problems. Hell CCA started this way, couple fishermen sitting around *****ing and oddly enough it was CCA working with the States for protection of redfish that solved that problem.....Discussion is good, no matter where it takes place

but the whole facebook thing took effort, effort that was wasted. It will not change or gain anything. That effort would have been better used for all those people to post on a facebook page of a politician that was on the fence about Bill HR3094. If RECs had a good team working on this problem they would provide a list of politicians that were iffy about state control that REC could voice there support to.

The FED management system is broke, a complete failure for REC fishermen. Nothing we do within this system will solve anything, fix anything or gain anything. RECs have been down this road for years and years with lawsuits in the FED system and it has gained nothing. RECs need to stop wasting time trying to fix the FED's broke management system and just make a new management system.

At this point any effort, resource or time spent by RECs in the FED system is a complete waste of time and money that could be used to push State control. State control is real, has been done and can be done again. There are very clear paths to make it happen, Bill HR3094. State control of red snapper out to 200 miles is not a pipe dream, it is very much real.

When CCA appeal is done and FRA's lawsuit is finish RECs would have gained nothing, fixed nothing and still in the same FED management mess. Why waste all that time, money and effort to accomplish nothing? Why not put all that effort toward a real solution to the problems REC face, why not put that money toward fixing the problem.


----------



## hilton

Getting the real message out there via Facebook or whatever to inform the everyday person about who they are actually dealing with is useful - these people vote, for one thing.

What are you going to say J.R. when/if the FRA lawsuit is successful?


----------



## Snookered

Kylie said:


> looks like the public comment times for the gulf council meeting are 1345-1700 on the 6th
> 
> Doubletree
> 6505 Interstate Highway 35-N
> Austin, TX
> 512-454-3737
> 
> http://gulfcouncil.org/council_meet...il Combined Committee and Council Agendas.pdf


 actually, the more I think about this, the more I realize that this is a golden opportunity Jolly....there couldn't be a BETTER place to make public comment at a GC meeting, and tell them like it is....tell them to fix it, or pass HB 3094.....I have to imagine that because the GC meeting is in Austin, that there will be at least a few representatives (or aids) listening in on the meeting....at some point we're going to have to overwhelm the comm's that speak at every meeting...

wish I could make it, but the idea of kicking in a few $$'s to get some folks up there isn't a bad idea....I'm in on that...
snookered


----------



## GunDog

I am not a member of the mosquito fleet as I stick to the bays, but I (like a lot of people here) are starting to learn more and more about the red snapper fisheries; which is a VERY good thing. It looks like a the last hearing on HR 3094 was held on the 3rd of March. Does anyone here know when the next hearing will be or when it will get out of committee? The sponsor for the bill is a member of the Natural Resources Committee, but several bills tend to die in committee.


----------



## Jolly Roger

hilton said:


> What are you going to say J.R. when/if the FRA lawsuit is successful?


lots of money, time and effort that solves and achieves nothing to help REC fishermen solve our problem. REC problem is management, not BS squabbles and lawsuits over quota that does not amount to a hill of beans.

REC are floundering around in the FED system, the WHOLE system is the problem not BS quota.

What are you goign to say? are you going to claim victory because they got REC's 2 days more of season? Come On this is what these lawsuits are over 2-3days of season, millions upon millions of dollars wasted over 2 days of season that the FED can take away even if the lawsuit is won.


----------



## Lat22

Porpoises? Anybody want to educate theses "wildlife experts"?


----------



## iridered2003

14 more replies and we're at 1000


----------



## Jolly Roger

iridered2003 said:


> 14 more replies and we're at 1000


would like to see 100k replies, the more it is talked about the more it ****** people off and better chance they will get off there *** and do something about the way RECs are getting screwed

2cool is not the only fishing board this topic is spreading like wildfire.


----------



## Jolly Roger

hilton said:


> What are you going to say J.R. when/if the FRA lawsuit is successful?


on the flip side, when they loose, and they will

I am going to say it is the same **** just a different day. REC groups like FRA,CCA are doing the Pop culture definition of insanity. They keep doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.

We all know the outcome of these lawsuits, win or loose RECs are still under FED management and RECs are still screwed. Why waste the resources on these lawsuits when there is a much, much better choice.


----------



## Momma's Worry

*Snapper Wars*

we desperately need somehow /somewhere to organize our recreational ARMY....and go after our reps in congress......get state control of OUR fishery
I remember Red Fish Wars of long ago and what it took.....


----------



## ToddyTrout

The problem is, with the red fish wars in Texas, we only had to presuade Texas Legislators who actually rule the stat pretty well with common since when given facts! 

On the fed level, all congressmen care about is who are filling their campaign coffers and lining their pockets!!!

The com industry is OBVIOUSLY a lot better at that than we are, because when the facts about productivity to the economy and bogus science used by NMFS are given, Congress still turns a deaf ear.


----------



## iridered2003

Jolly Roger said:


> I am going to say it is the same **** just a different day. REC groups like FRA,CCA are doing the Pop culture definition of insanity. They keep doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.


HISTORY at it's best:rotfl:


----------



## Momma's Worry

ToddyTrout said:


> The problem is, with the red fish wars in Texas, we only had to presuade Texas Legislators who actually rule the stat pretty well with common since when given facts!
> 
> On the fed level, all congressmen care about is who are filling their campaign coffers and lining their pockets!!!
> 
> The com industry is OBVIOUSLY a lot better at that than we are, because when the facts about productivity to the economy and bogus science used by NMFS are given, Congress still turns a deaf ear.


we have plenty of Texas Gulf coast district conservative republican reps in congress to work with and make a difference.....a thousand plus comments concentrated( instead of shot gunning many) on just one of their facebook accounts, like Katies Seafood, will get attention ...who do we need to work first ? Babin? Green?


----------



## hillbilly deluxe

They could give recreational red snapper fishermen 75% of the red snapper quota for the gulf of Mexico But with a season of 10 day most way to dam windy to get out it would no mater one bit. I we can fish more days we r never going to come close to the quota. IT'S JUST A LOOK GOOD THING ON THERE PART. They give a **** if we ever get to catch red snapper and hope we don't so they can have more.


----------



## Jolly Roger

ToddyTrout said:


> The problem is, with the red fish wars in Texas, we only had to presuade Texas Legislators who actually rule the stat pretty well with common since when given facts!
> 
> On the fed level, all congressmen care about is who are filling their campaign coffers and lining their pockets!!!
> 
> The com industry is OBVIOUSLY a lot better at that than we are, because when the facts about productivity to the economy and bogus science used by NMFS are given, Congress still turns a deaf ear.


but the state fixed the redfish problem, this is fact

Congressmen are backing and putting forth Bill HR3094, would be smart instead of wasting the money on these lawsuits by FRA and CCA take that same money and fill those congressmen campaign coffers and lining their pockets to push state control in Bill HR3094. Not hard to figure out, waste money on pointless lawsuits that fix nothng, gain nothing and solve nothing OR put that money toward a fix to the whole problem..... should not be a hard question to figure out, but lots of people having a hard time with it.

The com are better, and we are fighting them and CFA in a system they help build. RECs are fighting loosing battles with these lawsuits when the winning strategy is state control. Not like I am making this **** up. States have already taken control from the FEDs out to nine miles and there is a Bill in Congress RIGHT NOW that would give the Gulf states control of the fishery...... why waste time with lawsuits in the FED system that accomplish nothing?



iridered2003 said:


> HISTORY at it's best:rotfl:


Yes it is, you and your commercial brethren have completely screwed up a fishery for RECs and we are going to have to get the Gulf State's wildlife management involved to fix it.


----------



## iridered2003

Jolly Roger said:


> but the state fixed the redfish problem, this is fact
> 
> Congressmen are backing and putting forth Bill HR3094, would be smart instead of wasting the money on these lawsuits by FRA and CCA take that same money and fill those congressmen campaign coffers and lining their pockets to push state control in Bill HR3094. Not hard to figure out, waste money on pointless lawsuits that fix nothng, gain nothing and solve nothing OR put that money toward a fix to the whole problem..... should not be a hard question to figure out, but lots of people having a hard time with it.
> 
> The com are better, and we are fighting them and CFA in a system they help build. RECs are fighting loosing battles with these lawsuits when the winning strategy is state control. Not like I am making this **** up. States have already taken control from the FEDs out to nine miles and there is a Bill in Congress RIGHT NOW that would give the Gulf states control of the fishery...... why waste time with lawsuits in the FED system that accomplish nothing?
> 
> Yes it is, you and your commercial brethren have completely screwed up a fishery for RECs and we are going to have to get the Gulf State's wildlife management involved to fix it.


im not really sure what you mean???? I work for a bechfront rental resort, im not a comm fisherman:fish:


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## hilton

iridered2003 said:


> im not really sure what you mean???? I work for a bechfront rental resort, im not a comm fisherman:fish:


....but they are your commercial brethren...that much is clear amigo.


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## silentpardner

> but the state fixed the redfish problem, this is fact


 http://gulfcouncil.org/fishery_management_plans/red_drum_management.php

Did the "state" fix it, or did the Feds fix it by eliminating the taking of the adult stock in the EEZ?


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## iridered2003

hilton said:


> ....but they are your commercial brethren...that much is clear amigo.


how are THEY my commercial brethren? I have nothing to do with comm fishing. but I do love a good :whiteshee red snapper


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## Marksnet

Just chiming in here. I've been following the thread. 
I'm new here but got a decent amount of time served on thehulltruth and pensacolafishingforum

Some have mentioned putting money towards a real solution. I'm all ears and willing


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## ToddyTrout

Momma's Worry,

Be careful in thinking that because a congressman is supposedly conservative rep. they are for us or will listen to us. The POS in my district is Randy Weber. He is in lots of pictures holding hands with the commercial industry and when you send him a letter you just get the same ole form letter or email they all send!

And for whoever it was that thinks the feds fixed the red fish problem in Texas, WRONG!!! Coms weren't catching big schools of breeder red fish off the coast of Texas. That was happening in Louisiana and Mississippi. That law had zero affect on Texas.


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## AirbornXpress

This guy is full of sea water and he makes me mad, filling the general public full of lies and acts like he knows whet he's talking about. Greedy bastard!!


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## saltaholic

Someone please organize a local rec group it's our only hope


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## ftw66

saltaholic said:


> Someone please organize a local rec group it's our only hope


I agree, it appears we have tons of support, just no organization to rally under.


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## iridered2003

saltaholic said:


> Someone please organize a local rec group it's our only hope





ftw66 said:


> I agree, it appears we have tons of support, just no organization to rally under.


then you guys step up to the plate and do it


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## gethookedadventures01

Sounds like we need to form TCRFA-Texas Coastal Recreational Fishermen's Association. Or GCRFA- Gulf Coast Recreational Fishermen's Association Texas Chapter. Since it is a gulf coast wide fishery. Maybe other states would join in and create chapters.


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## Jolly Roger

ToddyTrout said:


> And for whoever it was that thinks the feds fixed the red fish problem in Texas, WRONG!!! Coms weren't catching big schools of breeder red fish off the coast of Texas. That was happening in Louisiana and Mississippi. That law had zero affect on Texas.


You might want to do some research. CCA was started in Texas becasue of the redfish problems, and along with the help of the gulf states set new limits for redfish because the commercial fishermen had devastated there population.

But no matter what state or state you think made the difference, simple fact is that it was the Gulf States along with GCCA that fixed the redfish problem. And just like now with the snapper problem, REC fishermen need to work with the states and get them in control of the fishery. It is the only answer


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## ToddyTrout

Jolly Roger,

I was there, I was part of that fight as a young man. The other Gulf States did nothing as Texas took the lead and ended com fishing for trout and red fish. The other gulf states were much later to follow. The feds didn't step in on the offshore part until blackened red fish became all the rage and purse seiners started wiping out huge schools of red fish off of the Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama coast in the mid to late 80's. 

Texas is where the GCCA was started by Walter Fondren and Dusty Baker with the support of thousands of rec fishermen in the Great state of Texas. So you might want to do a little more research Jolly Roger.

Having said that, I don't think it's worth the argument as I think we are on the same side!


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## hilton

iridered2003 said:


> how are THEY my commercial brethren? I have nothing to do with comm fishing. but I do love a good :whiteshee red snapper


Do you not read your own posts?


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## Jolly Roger

ToddyTrout said:


> Jolly Roger,
> 
> I was there, I was part of that fight as a young man. The other Gulf States did nothing as Texas took the lead and ended com fishing for trout and red fish. The other gulf states were much later to follow. The feds didn't step in on the offshore part until blackened red fish became all the rage and purse seiners started wiping out huge schools of red fish off of the Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama coast in the mid to late 80's.
> 
> Texas is where the GCCA was started by Walter Fondren and Dusty Baker with the support of thousands of rec fishermen in the Great state of Texas. So you might want to do a little more research Jolly Roger.
> 
> Having said that, I don't think it's worth the argument as I think we are on the same side!


you just said everything I have already said? Not sure who you are arguing with. Funny how Texas is always the first state to take the lead in these things, Texas was the first state to set redfish REGs to curtail the commercial harvest, and Texas was the first gulf state to fight the FEDs on the snapper issue. Much like Redfish REC fishermen are going to have to work with the states to fix the fishery.

Hope we are on the same side.


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## crismiller

Along with everybody on this thread - I am disgusted at the false information that is being depicted on this show. As a recreational fisherman the only thing I know to do is keep my CCA active and be thankful for the reefs that are being built in Texas waters...

Oh yeah and I will write the show and voice my opinion


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## trapper67

Marksnet said:


> Just chiming in here. I've been following the thread.
> I'm new here but got a decent amount of time served on thehulltruth and pensacolafishingforum
> 
> Some have mentioned putting money towards a real solution. I'm all ears and willing


Welcome to 2cool.....................


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