# AR 15 Prices dropping like a brick in water



## ST.SIMONS

If anyone is interested here are some links. I see some guys trying to get crazy money for their lesser quality Ar's in the classified's. Maybe they are unaware of the price climate. Anyhow check it out.

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/AR-15-14-5-Mid-Length-Group-s/135.htm

https://www.primaryarms.com/Aero_Precision_Stripped_AR_15_Lower_Receiver_with_p/ap501112bundle.htm

http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=LWR-BCM-BLEM-FDE

https://dsgarms.com/co6920

Just some of the examples of quality hardware thats out there. You can get lowers such as Spikes stripped for $85 as well.

Cheers ,


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## Fordzilla06

Remember the idiots paying $3k for a DPMS sportical a year ago? LOL. And the guys paying $1 a bullet for 5.56! That's what happens when you aren't already prepared!


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## ST.SIMONS

Fordzilla06 said:


> Remember the idiots paying $3k for a DPMS sportical a year ago? LOL. And the guys paying $1 a bullet for 5.56! That's what happens when you aren't already prepared!


The classifieds here is what blew me away. Ammo is hilarious as well.


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## andre3k

The good old days are right now. Police trade in's are crazy cheap right now. glock for 299, beretta 92 for 360, hk usp for 500.


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## ST.SIMONS

andre3k said:


> The good old days are right now. Police trade in's are crazy cheap right now. glock for 299, beretta 92 for 360, hk usp for 500.


Bought 6 lowers yesterday for the next time a congressman causes a panic. Also bought a couple to build just because. My grown man legos.


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## glenbo

For those of us who have an AR in the classifieds and are asking that crazy money, just think what they will be worth when that same congressman causes that panic. I can wait. All the extra magazines and ammo might be worth something too.


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## Ready.Fire.Aim

If you want your a grandson or future grandson to have an AR15, buy one now cheap and set it back. 

- along with a stack of 30 round mags for it. 



Have fun,
RFA


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## dwilliams35

glenbo said:


> For those of us who have an AR in the classifieds and are asking that crazy money, just think what they will be worth when that same congressman causes that panic. I can wait. All the extra magazines and ammo might be worth something too.


 Magazines, maybe: they're probably the easiest political target, easy to store, easy to buy, etc.. The AR? Even back during the '94 ban, the preban stuff wasn't all THAT nutty... If a complete California-style ban takes place, they won't be worth diddly anyway, since you can't legally sell them. If they're grandfathered in and transferable, everybody that really wants one now already has one after the last few years; the market's pretty much flooded, and is going to stay that way as a lot of people realize that this thing sitting in their closet isn't doing any thing and they need to trade it in on a new 870 or a TV or something... One way or another, a lot of people that bought them specifically for resale during that panic are probably going to end up with entire omelets on their face over it. The panic was people who had never bought an AR suddenly deciding that they had to get one before they got banned: most of those guys have one now, either they had their brother in law build one or they bought one as the market eased.. They're still not the "gun guys" that own most of the AR's out there: gun guys didn't jump into that market unless they had something to sell, and they certainly wouldn't buy at those prices, either then or in the future..


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## ST.SIMONS

glenbo said:


> For those of us who have an AR in the classifieds and are asking that crazy money, just think what they will be worth when that same congressman causes that panic. I can wait. All the extra magazines and ammo might be worth something too.


Sir no disrespect at all. I hope you get every penny your asking. But why would someone buy a DS arms for $1000 when they can buy a PSA for $485? As far as ammo go's that's easy as well.

http://www.freedommunitions.com/5-56-M-193-55-gr-FMJ-New-p/ipp556m193n-c1000.


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## glenbo

I just read in the last couple of days that Gabby Giffords and her scumbag husband are on the trail promoting their gun control organization again, and she's saying that they already have $20 million to try to buy the upcoming elections and are raising more. It doesn't take much for people to go crazy buying, just look at what happened when odimwit was inaugurated the second time. And if the hildabeast gets the dem nomination, I would expect a repeat. I would further posit that people on 2cool are hardly representative of most of the gun buying public, who have little knowledge of ARs, magazines, and ammo prices as most of us do. We keep on top of what's going on in the world and politics, but there are millions of people out there who have little clue and will get the scare again, sooner or later. Either another mass shooting or another proposal by a democrat moron will tighten the market again.


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## bearintex

Better watch out! Don't disrespect the classifieds! You'll get your hand slapped!



> 33. Comments, complaints or other remarks about ads on the classifieds. That section is a no response section for a reason and any comments can be given using the reputation system. Posting them publicly will result in an infraction.


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## ST.SIMONS

I love the classifieds I genuinely hope that everyone sells every thing for what they ask.


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## mrsh978

But "allowing " pOS ammo scalpers to gouge the forum public without restraint is hard to sit and be "quiet " .....have no problem with free trade , but perpetuating a condition is the issue I have


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## Lsube0555

I hope someone is stupid enough to pay you 1000 for a 500 ar will that make you feel good about yourself? Also check out sw111 ad has a psa he started out at like 1500 then says price drop 1200 haha it's just a holes trying to take advantage of someone that may not know, but people will say it's their own fault for not doing the research on what they are buying.


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## ST.SIMONS

mrsh978 said:


> But "allowing " pOS ammo scalpers to gouge the forum public without restraint is hard to sit and be "quiet " .....have no problem with free trade , but perpetuating a condition is the issue I have


Boom!! I was only trying to save some people some money.


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## jetbuilt

glenbo said:


> For those of us who have an AR in the classifieds and are asking that crazy money, just think what they will be worth when that same congressman causes that panic. I can wait. All the extra magazines and ammo might be worth something too.


Based on your last post on your for sale thread. . .I guess you decided not to wait it out and sell it on this forum? For what it's worth, people browsing the classifieds for AR's probably wouldn't have ever noticed this thread. Now they're going to see your own post in your thread and know that you're asking too much for the rifle.


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## hadaclueonce

*Bricks*

Speaking if Bricks, 22 LR Bricks $ will follow shortly.

Just my opinion.

Heard they taste good with chip dip.


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## dwilliams35

jetcycles said:


> Based on your last post on your for sale thread. . .I guess you decided not to wait it out and sell it on this forum? For what it's worth, people browsing the classifieds for AR's probably wouldn't have ever noticed this thread. Now they're going to see your own post in your thread and know that you're asking too much for the rifle.


 I figured it might be a clue when you can get on DS Arms own website and get the same gun brand new in a box for a few hundred cheaper, but, alas... Such is the nature of opportunism..


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## Bigj

Lots of people paid big bucks put them up now wonting to get rid of them. they dont sell for big money get all butt hurt over it..........


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## RB II

Bigj said:


> Lots of people paid big bucks put them up now wonting to get rid of them. they dont sell for big money get all butt hurt over it..........


And they really get butt hurt when you make them an offer based on real value. They call you a low baller!! Lol. Just because they paid too much isn't my problem. 
I will say that it is not easy to stay up with current market value. Lots of variables between guns and also a very volatile market. Value changes every day.


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## Jerry-rigged

ST.SIMONS said:


> If anyone is interested here are some links. I see some guys trying to get crazy money for their lesser quality Ar's in the classified's. Maybe they are unaware of the price climate. Anyhow check it out.
> 
> http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/AR-15-14-5-Mid-Length-Group-s/135.htm
> 
> https://www.primaryarms.com/Aero_Precision_Stripped_AR_15_Lower_Receiver_with_p/ap501112bundle.htm
> 
> http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=LWR-BCM-BLEM-FDE
> 
> https://dsgarms.com/co6920
> 
> Just some of the examples of quality hardware thats out there. You can get lowers such as Spikes stripped for $85 as well.
> 
> Cheers ,


If y'all don't mind me hijacking y'all's hijack...

I am an AR noob -

If I buy an "upper kit" from that first link (like one of the $515 ones) and a $199 lower kit from the primary arms kit, what else do I need to have a shooting gun? Mag, ammo and what else? $720 +shipping and mags seems cheap. Do these kits build out to be a decent reliable gun?

Or as a ar-15 noob, should I just plan on getting something like that Colt in the last link for just under a grand?


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## Fordzilla06

Jerry-rigged said:


> If y'all don't mind me hijacking y'all's hijack...
> 
> I am an AR noob -
> 
> If I buy an "upper kit" from that first link (like one of the $515 ones) and a $199 lower kit from the primary arms kit, what else do I need to have a shooting gun? Mag, ammo and what else? $720 +shipping and mags seems cheap. Do these kits build out to be a decent reliable gun?
> 
> Or as a ar-15 noob, should I just plan on getting something like that Colt in the last link for just under a grand?


Handgaurd. The bravo company upper doesn't come with a handgaurd. Bcm makes good uppers. I'd build the lower a bit differently if I were you. Buy a LPK from Spikes, or whoever without the trigger, and put a nice trigger in it. Aside from that, yes you can build an ar for $700-800.


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## THE JAMMER

Caveat emptor.


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## ST.SIMONS

Jerry-rigged said:


> If y'all don't mind me hijacking y'all's hijack...
> 
> I am an AR noob -
> 
> If I buy an "upper kit" from that first link (like one of the $515 ones) and a $199 lower kit from the primary arms kit, what else do I need to have a shooting gun? Mag, ammo and what else? $720 +shipping and mags seems cheap. Do these kits build out to be a decent reliable gun?
> 
> Or as a ar-15 noob, should I just plan on getting something like that Colt in the last link for just under a grand?


You cant go wrong with anything I posted in the links. There are only a few manufacturers of lowers. For example Aero makes Spikes lowers with Spikes roll marks. The Colt is a great first AR if you have no experience with how to assemble a lower. You can buy a complete spikes lower(assembled) for less than $300 includes a Moe 6 position buttstock and thats a milspec not commercial lower with a h2 or t2 buffer tube and spring. For the money right now BCM is the best bang for your buck ready to run upper. You get a free Bolt Carrier Group ($149.00) and a BCM charging handle for under $600.00 in a carbine 16 inch barrell and your choice of Daniel Defense, Knights, or Troy rails(handguard). Good luck feel free to ask any more questions you may have or if you want to do some serious research check out this site

Cheers

http://www.m4carbine.net/


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## ST.SIMONS

Fordzilla06 said:


> Handgaurd. The bravo company upper doesn't come with a handgaurd. Bcm makes good uppers. I'd build the lower a bit differently if I were you. Buy a LPK from Spikes, or whoever without the trigger, and put a nice trigger in it. Aside from that, yes you can build an ar for $700-800.


Actually they do for just over $600 and that includes a BCG, charging handle, and rail and a quality rail at that.


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## Fordzilla06

ST.SIMONS said:


> Actually they do for just over $600 and that includes a BCG, charging handle, and rail and a quality rail at that.


The one listed for $515 doesn't come with a handgaurd.


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## Fordzilla06

http://www.radicalfirearms.com/category-s/1853.htm

Check out Radical Firearms. They've got some really cheap uppers and you'll need a BCG and charging handle. Could get in a complete upper for around $400 from them.


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## ST.SIMONS

Fordzilla06 said:


> The one listed for $515 doesn't come with a handgaurd.


Correct however you can get a $300 Daniel Defense rail a $169.00 BCG and a charging handle $48 for $676.00

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-...eiver-daniel-defense-p/bcm-urg-m4-16 ddl7.htm

actually they are selling just about every thing out.


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## ralphl

Now is the time to get a suppreser stamp, while you still can The anti will go after that next


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## Jerry-rigged

I guess I need to read up on AR's more. I don't know what a lot of those pieces are... LOL


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## mas360

Here is a good deal to build an AR

Complete rifle kit for $500.

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/catalog/product/view/id/2279/category/313/

Stripped receiver for $60.

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/catalog/product/view/id/10445/category/4282/

Total cost: $560
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Or you can get a completely assembled lower for $130

http://palmettostatearmory.com/inde...lete-lower-blackhawk-edition-no-magazine.html

and a completely assembled upper for $300

http://palmettostatearmory.com/inde...m-1-7-upper-with-bcg-and-charging-handle.html

Total cost: $430 
This option costs less and you don't have to do anything other than slap the upper and lower together before pushing two pins to lock them together.....voila you have an AR15 ready for the range.

PS: I bought one and it made 2.5" groups with handloads using 55 grains FMJ bullets.


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## ST.SIMONS

mas360 said:


> Here is a good deal to build an AR
> 
> Complete rifle kit for $500.
> 
> http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/catalog/product/view/id/2279/category/313/
> 
> Stripped receiver for $60.
> 
> http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/catalog/product/view/id/10445/category/4282/
> 
> Total cost: $560
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Or you can get a completely assembled lower for $130
> 
> http://palmettostatearmory.com/inde...lete-lower-blackhawk-edition-no-magazine.html
> 
> and a completely assembled upper for $300
> 
> http://palmettostatearmory.com/inde...m-1-7-upper-with-bcg-and-charging-handle.html
> 
> Total cost: $430
> This option costs less and you don't have to do anything other than slap the upper and lower together before pushing two pins to lock them together.....voila you have an AR15 ready for the range.
> 
> PS: I bought one and it made 2.5" groups with handloads using 55 grains FMJ bullets.


He is correct I mentioned Palmetto on page 1 or 2 of this post.


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## dwilliams35

If you're looking, might want to wait for labor day, then thanksgiving: Palmetto, JSE Surplus, etc. have gotten in the habit of deeply discounting some of these uppers and rifle kits: As I remember they had a $349 full kit over July 4th, plus some $49 blem lowers. That's a cheap AR.


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## rundm

Jerry-rigged said:


> I guess I need to read up on AR's more. I don't know what a lot of those pieces are... LOL


It sounds hard but really isn't all that bad. You can pick up a lot of parts at the places listed in this thread and build a very nice ar. You can build yourself a very high end ar right now and only invest a few hundred more than would cost you to get the same middle of the road stuff a short time back.


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## Jerry-rigged

dwilliams35 said:


> If you're looking, might want to wait for labor day, then thanksgiving: Palmetto, JSE Surplus, etc. have gotten in the habit of deeply discounting some of these uppers and rifle kits: As I remember they had a $349 full kit over July 4th, plus some $49 blem lowers. That's a cheap AR.


I was looking at some of those kits on Palmetto. Is the only thing needed to have a shooting gun the stripped lower?

And the Blem lowers - just scratches? are they ever non-functional?


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## bearintex

Jerry-rigged said:


> I was looking at some of those kits on Palmetto. Is the only thing needed to have a shooting gun the stripped lower?
> 
> And the Blem lowers - just scratches? are they ever non-functional?


I bought three Aero Precision blems from Primary Arms in Pearland a couple months ago. I'll be damned if I can find the blems in them. Only assembled the first one, but fully functional. It was part of a "see how cheap I can build one for" project. Got it completely done for under five bills. I did have a few takeoff parts laying around (charging handle, sights) so that helped. Dedicated truck gun.


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## Fordzilla06

Jerry-rigged said:


> I was looking at some of those kits on Palmetto. Is the only thing needed to have a shooting gun the stripped lower?
> 
> And the Blem lowers - just scratches? are they ever non-functional?


No, a stripped lower is a lower receiver with nothing in it, hence stripped. If you buy a stripped lower you will need a lower parts kit, buffer, buffer spring, buffer tube, and buttstock to have a complete lower, then you'll need an upper receiver to have a shooting rifle.

Yes blemish lower is a lower receiver with scratches on it.


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## Jungle_Jim

I have an LWRC Spr with Acog I'll trade for a 27-30 foot twin engine or 150 hp 4x4 tractor. I have some 5.56 ammo for the low low price of $14.00 per round. Its really deadly ammo. It is M-193, it stands for Mostly kills 193 people.


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## mas360

Jerry-rigged said:


> I was looking at some of those kits on Palmetto. Is the only thing needed to have a shooting gun the stripped lower?
> 
> *And the Blem lowers - just scratches? are they ever non-functional?*


As of today my son and I have bought 11 Palmetto blemished stripped lowers. The only blemish I have seen in one lower out of 11 is the black coating not uniform ih color. I had to look carefully to see the blemish though. All of them took lower part kits of various manufacture without a burp.

One Palmetto lower part kit did have very stiff springs and the trigger pull was about 10 lbs. The creep and travel were gritty due to rough finishing. I had to do some polishing and replaced the springs with an aftermarket spring set for $10 to bring it down to 3 lbs pull.

The Blackhawk part kits were excellent. That is the kit you want to get. The Blackhawk stock kit is also better than the standard M4 stock kit but yet is a few dollars less. If you prefer authentic army issue buttstock....get the M4...otherwise the Blackhawk is better choice. It comes with a sling swivel installed.


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## TranTheMan

Interesting thread with a lot of good info. 
I already have a M4 and am curious about building another one -- just because. I did buy a book, looked up the build process on the internet and it is not difficult, that is, I can do it. But IMHO, if I would build just one from the scratch, then it is not very cost effective because I will need to buy a few tools to facilitate the assembling of the upper. I guess can do without tools? 
The best route for me would be buying a complete upper with chromed barrel, a stripped lower, a low kit w/o trigger, and a nice trigger. The stripped lower would need to be shipped to a FFL and the transfer fee is $25 - $30 for a $70 part. 

So it seems if you want to have just one AR, then buy it; but if you want to tinker with it, then by all means build one for fun, but I have some doubts if you would save any $$.


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## Jungle_Jim

Jerry-rigged said:


> I guess I need to read up on AR's more. I don't know what a lot of those pieces are... LOL


Don't do it! You'll catch Black Rifle Disease and there is no cure.

Jim


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## ST.SIMONS

Jungle_Jim said:


> Don't do it! You'll catch Black Rifle Disease and there is no cure.
> 
> Jim


LMAO!! So true..Its a real expensive disease ...


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## ST.SIMONS

TranTheMan said:


> Interesting thread with a lot of good info.
> I already have a M4 and am curious about building another one -- just because. I did buy a book, looked up the build process on the internet and it is not difficult, that is, I can do it. But IMHO, if I would build just one from the scratch, then it is not very cost effective because I will need to buy a few tools to facilitate the assembling of the upper. I guess can do without tools?
> The best route for me would be buying a complete upper with chromed barrel, a stripped lower, a low kit w/o trigger, and a nice trigger. The stripped lower would need to be shipped to a FFL and the transfer fee is $25 - $30 for a $70 part.
> 
> So it seems if you want to have just one AR, then buy it; but if you want to tinker with it, then by all means build one for fun, but I have some doubts if you would save any $$.


If you have any mechanical aptitude at all it will take you 20 minutes tops. I am down to around 8-9 minutes to build a lower. The upper is a bit of a different story.


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## mas360

TranTheMan said:


> Interesting thread with a lot of good info.
> I already have a M4 and am curious about building another one -- just because. I did buy a book, looked up the build process on the internet and it is not difficult, that is, I can do it. But IMHO, if I would build just one from the scratch, then it is not very cost effective because I will need to buy a few tools to facilitate the assembling of the upper. I guess can do without tools?
> *The best route for me would be buying a complete upper with chromed barrel, a stripped lower, a low kit w/o trigger, and a nice trigger. The stripped lower would need to be shipped to a FFL and the transfer fee is $25 - $30 for a $70 part. *
> 
> So it seems if you want to have just one AR, then buy it; but if you want to tinker with it, then by all means build one for fun, but I have some doubts if you would save any $$.


I know an FFL dealer who charges $25 for 5 receivers. At $50 each it is worth it to buy 5 and put it away for the rainy days. By the way, I have also seen polymer lowers on sale now and then for $30 each.

Get a standard lower kit and add a JP reduced power spring set for $11.50 and your trigger will be very nice. No need for a Timney or any of the high dollar sets unless you want to get into competition shooting.

Unless you are going to build at least another 8 guns, it is not worth it to pay for specialized tools to assemble the upper. The cost to buy piece parts alone will not save you anything over buying a fully assembled upper.


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## ST.SIMONS

mas360 said:


> I know an FFL dealer who charges $25 for 5 receivers. At $50 each it is worth it to buy 5 and put it away for the rainy days. By the way, I have also seen polymer lowers on sale now and then for $30 each.
> 
> Get a standard lower kit and add a JP reduced power spring set for $11.50 and your trigger will be very nice. No need for a Timney or any of the high dollar sets unless you want to get into competition shooting.
> 
> Unless you are going to build at least another 8 guns, it is not worth it to pay for specialized tools to assemble the upper. The cost to buy piece parts alone will not save you anything over buying a fully assembled upper.


Agreed building uppers makes no sense unless you build quite a few. I have the tools and don't even do it anymore especially with prices for fully assembled uppers where they are now. I been really wanting to build a .300 blackout truck gun and it will be my next project. Something about a 30 caliber truck gun reminds me of an old 30/30.


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## Fordzilla06

mas360 said:


> I know an FFL dealer who charges $25 for 5 receivers. At $50 each it is worth it to buy 5 and put it away for the rainy days. By the way, I have also seen polymer lowers on sale now and then for $30 each.
> 
> Get a standard lower kit and add a JP reduced power spring set for $11.50 and your trigger will be very nice. No need for a Timney or any of the high dollar sets unless you want to get into competition shooting.
> 
> Unless you are going to build at least another 8 guns, it is not worth it to pay for specialized tools to assemble the upper. The cost to buy piece parts alone will not save you anything over buying a fully assembled upper.


What specialized tools do you speak of? A barrel wrench? They're $15. A vice block? They're $10. That's all that's needed to assemble an upper receiver. And the barrel wrench doubles as your castle nut wrench.

And only needing a better than mil-spec trigger if you're in competition is garbage. You need an aftermarket trigger. Mil-spec triggers are garbage. Spend a little bit and buy a cmc, timney, Giessele, Jard, something besides a mil-spec if you're building your own.


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## MechAg94

A really nice Geiselle trigger is great, but even some of the $50 or $100 triggers are useful upgrades over the milspec. I used to have a Spikes Tactical trigger for about $50 that was wasn't bad. The Geiselle battle triggers or match trigger are just sweet to shoot though. Once you try a nice match or near match trigger, you won't want to settle for anything else. 


IMO, building an upper is great if you have a specific barrel you want. Other than that, you can often find a prebuilt upper with stuff you want. The other reason you build one might be you really need to build it cheap and can only buy a couple parts at a time.

I have built several lowers, but never an upper. A lower takes me an hour or two for a lower and that includes refreshing my memory by watching How To videos on Youtube. The trick is to make sure you do it without scratching the finish.


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## dwilliams35

Fordzilla06 said:


> No, a stripped lower is a lower receiver with nothing in it, hence stripped. If you buy a stripped lower you will need a lower parts kit, buffer, buffer spring, buffer tube, and buttstock to have a complete lower, then you'll need an upper receiver to have a shooting rifle.
> 
> Yes blemish lower is a lower receiver with scratches on it.


I think he was asking more about the rifle kits, if all he needed was a stripped lower to make them functional: the answer to that is, probably.. Just gotta make sure the kit has got all of that...


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## dwilliams35

Fordzilla06 said:


> What specialized tools do you speak of? A barrel wrench? They're $15. A vice block? They're $10. That's all that's needed to assemble an upper receiver. And the barrel wrench doubles as your castle nut wrench.
> 
> And only needing a better than mil-spec trigger if you're in competition is garbage. You need an aftermarket trigger. Mil-spec triggers are garbage. Spend a little bit and buy a cmc, timney, Giessele, Jard, something besides a mil-spec if you're building your own.


 That's definitely not always the case: there's some pretty decent triggers out there that came out of a standard LPK: no, it's not a Geissele Match trigger, but they can be pretty decent, especially with a little stoning here and there and the spring upgrade he mentioned..


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## Chase4556

I thought LOOOOOONG and hard about off loading mine when the prices were ridiculous for them. I bought it for right at $1000, and saw multiple of my exact rifle sell for $2000-$2500.

I could have pocketed a grand, kept the rest in the savings account(yeah right), and ordered another, or built one. Hind sight..


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## mas360

Fordzilla06 said:


> *And only needing a better than mil-spec trigger if you're in competition is garbage*. You need an aftermarket trigger. Mil-spec triggers are garbage. Spend a little bit and buy a cmc, timney, Giessele, Jard, something besides a mil-spec if you're building your own.


Did Tran ever express any desire to get into competition ?


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## Fordzilla06

mas360 said:


> Did Tran ever express any desire to get into competition ?


The point of that post if whether you are plinking, hog hunting or shooting competition, mil spec triggers are garbage. There is no sense in not installing a good trigger if you are building a rifle. Buy an LPK without a trigger an install a nice one.


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## TranTheMan

Points from mas360 and Fordzilla are well taken. 
I am just a casual plinker, not hunter or competition shooter but a sucker for "how-things-work". Like mas360 said, a new set of springs and some cleaning up, can greatly improve a stock gun's trigger. For example, my Ruger SP101 and GP100 revolvers have become **very** sweet shooters after I replaced the stock springs with Woff springs. I will look into the same to see if it can help my current M4's trigger.
On the other hand, if I would build one, it is very tempting to drop in a $200 trigger (again, just because ... curiosity does have negative impact on wallet.)


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## mas360

Well, instead of using subjective and vague term such as this and that is garbage I'll put it in quantitative terms. An M4 mil-spec trigger has a pull of about 8 to 9 1/2 lb. Some manufacturers cut their fire control group components with precision and while others may be a world of gritty trigger pull. 
Replacing the stock spring with JP spring will drop the pull down to between 3.0 to 4 lbs. Honing the trigger by light polishing will improve the pull a lot if the manufacturer left a lot of machine mark behind. 
Install an adjustable set screw, which costs 30 cents, will reduce the long trigger pull. Most receiver nowadays come with a hole in the receiver already drilled and tapped to take this set screw. 

Compare that to my $200 Timney trigger, which I bought out of curiosity, which gives 2 lbs trigger pull and no creep, offers about 20% enhancement at the range with same ammo. 

If you are a tinkerer and like to take challenge it is fun to do the JP spring and set screw. If you have thick wallet and would rather spend time at the range than tinkering with your M4 the Timney or Giselle would be the choice. 

Either way, if you are a hog hunter, the many hogs I shot did not care which trigger I had on my AR. They all dropped dead the same way with or without the 20% precision enhancement..... 

Now, if you seriously get into competition, a 20% precision enhancement would make a difference in winning or losing. But now we also talk about many other factors such as barrel quality, headspace and lock up tolerance...etc...on top of trigger.


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## batmaninja

I ended up picking up a PSA AR recently, in part due to this thread. 

I am looking to pick up a decent set of sites to finish her up and wanted to see if yall had any suggestions. I like the peep sites that site on top of a handle but am open to suggestion. 

Any advice on slings as well. Not looking to break the bank just want something that is function and will last.


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## MechAg94

On iron sites, I tend to like the sites that have wings or guards up on either side of the rear and front sight. The front wings can help in aiming. The rear I don't care for the skinny ones that stick up with nothing around them. Seem awkward to use to me. There are lots and lots of quality choices. Take your time to look around.


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## txbred

MechAg94 said:


> .... The front wings can help in aiming. ....


agree. and if you learn how to use them properly, it helps alot. (300 meter zero) google search FM3-22-9.pdf for the M4 manual


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## Jungle_Jim

mas360 said:


> Well, instead of using subjective and vague term such as this and that is garbage I'll put it in quantitative terms. An M4 mil-spec trigger has a pull of about 8 to 9 1/2 lb. Some manufacturers cut their fire control group components with precision and while others may be a world of gritty trigger pull.
> Replacing the stock spring with JP spring will drop the pull down to between 3.0 to 4 lbs. Honing the trigger by light polishing will improve the pull a lot if the manufacturer left a lot of machine mark behind.
> Install an adjustable set screw, which costs 30 cents, will reduce the long trigger pull. Most receiver nowadays come with a hole in the receiver already drilled and tapped to take this set screw.
> 
> Compare that to my $200 Timney trigger, which I bought out of curiosity, which gives 2 lbs trigger pull and no creep, offers about 20% enhancement at the range with same ammo.
> 
> If you are a tinkerer and like to take challenge it is fun to do the JP spring and set screw. If you have thick wallet and would rather spend time at the range than tinkering with your M4 the Timney or Giselle would be the choice.
> 
> Either way, if you are a hog hunter, the many hogs I shot did not care which trigger I had on my AR. They all dropped dead the same way with or without the 20% precision enhancement.....
> 
> Now, if you seriously get into competition, a 20% precision enhancement would make a difference in winning or losing. But now we also talk about many other factors such as barrel quality, headspace and lock up tolerance...etc...on top of trigger.


I highly reccomend the Geiselle triggers. I have them on all my ARs. 500 yard shots with a 14.5 inch bbl are no big deal.


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## Chase4556

I'd say its almost required to either modify, or replace the stock mil-spec trigger. I was tempted to do it in my issued rifle! I like "bang, bang, bangx10" better though.


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## TranTheMan

Chase4556 said:


> I was tempted to do it in my issued rifle! I like "bang, bang, bangx10" better though.


Will they let you do that? Just curious. Maybe they won't be able to find out! Don't ask don't tell?


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## Chase4556

TranTheMan said:


> Will they let you do that? Just curious. Maybe they won't be able to find out! Don't ask don't tell?


Exactly. A gold timney trigger might catch someones attention though, haha.

I'm buds with our armorer. He told me if I wanted, I could put my RRA upper on my rifle, or any optic I wanted. He didn't care, as long as it came back to him the same way he issued it.


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## capt mullet

There is a big difference in a nice Armalite Rifle and a cheap Armalite Rifle.

You can build a very nice AR for a little extra money and it is definitely worth spending the extra money on a nice barrel and trigger and stock and springs etc

Especially if you build your own.


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## Jungle_Jim

batmaninja said:


> I ended up picking up a PSA AR recently, in part due to this thread.
> 
> I am looking to pick up a decent set of sites to finish her up and wanted to see if yall had any suggestions. I like the peep sites that site on top of a handle but am open to suggestion.
> 
> Any advice on slings as well. Not looking to break the bank just want something that is function and will last.


Viking Tactical sling is a great one.


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## ST.SIMONS

https://www.blueforcegear.com/vcas-acetal-sling.html

Here is a great sling.


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## Csafisher

andre3k said:


> The good old days are right now. Police trade in's are crazy cheap right now. glock for 299, beretta 92 for 360, hk usp for 500.


where are you finding these deals?


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## pantallica4211

http://www.centerfiresystems.com/glock-27pti.aspx I ordered one of these. G27 gen 4 for 399, 3 mags and night sights. Hell of a deal man.


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## pantallica4211

I will say that it was dirty as heck, but after cleaning it I wouldn't be surprised if it had been shot 100 rounds, it's in **** near 100% condition.


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## andre3k

Csafisher said:


> where are you finding these deals?


www.summitgunbroker.com
www.gunbroker.com
www.cdnnsports.com
www.jgsales.com
www.slickguns.com
www.aimsurplus.com

Most of your handgun deals will be police trade ins. AR prices are low across the board now, at least until the next big shooting.


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## spurgersalty

Irony:rotfl:
http://2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/showthread.php?t=1210089


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