# epoxy on guide wrap disaster



## jimj100 (Dec 1, 2012)

I've built quite a few rods, and this has never happened to me. clearly, this area over the guide feet did not take CP, and epoxy went right thru it. I CP'd like 4 coats too. These are duralite ATC casting guides. Happened on all of the larger guides, and some of the little ones.
My best guess, the guide feet had some oil on them. 
I have never heard of this, nor seen where it was standard practice to clean off guide feet before wrapping them. Do y'all do this? 
I hate wrappin guides too.... gotta clean all that epoxy off....


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## Phantom (Feb 6, 2005)

I have seen this before. It did cause me to clean all components touching the threads with alcohol. This happened to me with an orange wrap.


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## Skiff (Jun 5, 2004)

Do you use multiple coats of CP very often? Maybe one wasn't completely dry but it's not too bad cutting the wraps off. Maybe go back with an underwrap to hide any mess left on the blank. Black with a few yellow inlays under the guide ring would look nice.


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## Pods (Jan 11, 2006)

How old is your CP? Old CP will yield those results. 

Pods


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## jimj100 (Dec 1, 2012)

Pods, Cp is from 1/15
Cp worked fine on butt wrap and fore grip wrap. And the only problem was in the region on top of and spreading away from the guide feet. 

How old is old cp? When do u quit using it? Just for my information...
Thanks, Jim


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## Po Boy (Nov 29, 2010)

It happen to me twice, both times it was on a brand of thread that I had only used these times. The second time I made a test wrap with no cp and it did it bad. I did a second test wrap with cp and it was ok. I did the guides and it showed up, the guides had been cleaned with alcohol. I wrapped a test on a guide with a different thread and there was no problem. I won't use that thread again. I don't know if I should post the brand of the thread on a plublic forum.


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## Pods (Jan 11, 2006)

Jim,
I had the same thing happen last year. Blotched wraps after finish application. Called Flexcoat and they claimed it was old CP. They said that is the reason the CP is sold in small bottles. He stated that 6 months is the norm. Good Luck.

Pods


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## Doc Labanowski (Jan 9, 2006)

I would be willing to bet that it isnt the CP at all. One of two things might have happened. 
1. You didnt get enought CP in the channel where the guide feet are. I often use pic to make sure it goes up inside.
2. The Other possible problem is that you or someone flexed the rod after you did the CP and there for left a means for the epoxy to go in.

Most CPs do their work by sitting on top of the thread and creating a barrier that the finish cant penitrate.


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## MattK (Feb 9, 2006)

When I use Flexcoat CP I always thin it with water for this exact reason. The one time this did happen to me the CP just coated the top of the threads and didn't work it's way into the channel as doc mentioned. The thinning allows the CP to flow into the channel and is more easily absorbed by the thread. I thin mine more than most recommend but I always use two coats and haven't ran into this problem since.


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## jimj100 (Dec 1, 2012)

MattK said:


> When I use Flexcoat CP I always thin it with water for this exact reason. The one time this did happen to me the CP just coated the top of the threads and didn't work it's way into the channel as doc mentioned. The thinning allows the CP to flow into the channel and is more easily absorbed by the thread. I thin mine more than most recommend but I always use two coats and haven't ran into this problem since.


matt, this sounds plausible as i think back. First, the CP was a little bit thicker. 2nd, I always work the epoxy under the guide feet, so if CP was only on thread on top of the guide feet, and didn't penetrate, then epoxy that goes under the guide feet would go up into the thread from the underside, penetrating all of the thread. This would explain why those areas are only over the guide feet, spreading away. and it would explain why the smaller guides (that have little to no gap up under them) did not have the problem.

When i cut these guide wraps off, I will check out the thread and see what they look like on the underside, ie, if the cp penetrated at all.

Thanks for responding. Jim


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## jimj100 (Dec 1, 2012)

Doc Labanowski said:


> I would be willing to bet that it isnt the CP at all. One of two things might have happened.
> 1. You didnt get enought CP in the channel where the guide feet are. I often use pic to make sure it goes up inside.
> 2. The Other possible problem is that you or someone flexed the rod after you did the CP and there for left a means for the epoxy to go in.
> 
> Most CPs do their work by sitting on top of the thread and creating a barrier that the finish cant penitrate.


yes, doc, combined with matt's explanation of thick CP, 1 above makes sense based on the symptoms. 
pods, this also doesn't rule out old cp as the problem with not getting into that channel created by the guide foot. 
thanks for the input fellas.


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## Billy 40 (Apr 3, 2008)

THe way I solved these types of problems it to not use CP on guides. I'm with DOc on this one.


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## jimj100 (Dec 1, 2012)

Yeah, but sometimes I want the color of guide wrap to match the decorative wrap.


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## Billy 40 (Apr 3, 2008)

So do I, you just have to figure out what threads will match. underwarps, painted blanks, NCP thread. I've built hundreds of rods and everything matches, never use CP on guides. Most have underwraps though. Which on most rods really isn't as big of a deal as peopl emake it out to be, especially if you use metallic or thread smaller than size A and a sealing coat of permaglos or similar product


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## jimj100 (Dec 1, 2012)

I hear ya, billy, and most of the time I don't cp the guide wraps. I never CP them on a big off shore rod, and i do double wraps. On a heavy surf rod, I will epoxy the first wrap with no CP, then if i think the color isn't right, I will put CP on the 2nd wrap. But on inshore stuff, 6-12lb, I will CP sometimes. IT's easier than painting the blank, or testing combos of underwrap metallic and overwrap nylon/no CP. Strength shouldn't be too much of an issue in that wt class. 

OF course, now i gotta cut the guides off and redo, so... we'll see about that "easier" thing.

anyway, i put 2 nice wraps, butt and foregrip) on it w/ that neon green shade pack you sold me at Lance's. I'll post up when it's done. JIm


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## Goags (May 28, 2004)

No doubt, it's gonna be easier to cut the guides off and rewrap, having used CP. Jim, I think you have it figured out...fill the tunnels w/ CP. Looking forward to seeing the finished rod!


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## jimj100 (Dec 1, 2012)

Goags said:


> No doubt, it's gonna be easier to cut the guides off and rewrap, having used CP. Jim, I think you have it figured out...fill the tunnels w/ CP. Looking forward to seeing the finished rod!


U got it jerry


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## sergeant69 (Sep 24, 2015)

Pods said:


> Jim,
> I had the same thing happen last year. Blotched wraps after finish application. Called Flexcoat and they claimed it was old CP. They said that is the reason the CP is sold in small bottles. He stated that 6 months is the norm. Good Luck.
> 
> Pods


fer real? i'm using cp thats 4-5 years old. had to take time off for back surgery. HOWEVER.... this may answer some leveling probs i've been having lately. any favorite brands? i use flex coat right now. who sells state of colorado rod decals? thanks


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