# Official 2011 GOM red snapper season



## mredman1 (Feb 4, 2007)

*48 days this year.....justified because we now catch bigger snapper....*
*Mike*

Southeast Fishery Bulletin 
National Marine Fisheries Service, Southeast Regional Office, 263 13th Avenue South, St. Petersburg, Florida 33701
*Gulf of Mexico Red Snapper Quota Increases and Recreational Red Snapper Season *
*SMALL ENTITY GUIDE *
NOAA Fisheries Service has published a final rule implementing increases in the commercial and recreational red snapper quotas in the Gulf of Mexico from 3.542 and 3.403 million pounds (MP) to *3.66 and 3.525 MP *in 2011, respectively. A recent red snapper assessment update projected overfishing (rate of removal is too high) ended in 2009, and therefore, the total allowable catch can be increased from the existing 6.945 MP to 7.185 MP. This action was evaluated in a regulatory amendment to the Fishery Management Plan for the Reef Fish Resources of the Gulf of Mexico. The final rule published in the _Federal Register _on April 29, 2011. 
The recreational red snapper season opens June 1, 2011. NOAA Fisheries Service has projected the red snapper recreational quota will be harvested by July 18, 2011. *The fishing season will close at 12:01 a.m. July 19, 2011*.

The 48-day season is the shortest season to date since the Gulf of Mexico Fishery Management Council chose to begin the season on June 1, and is, in part, the result of the increasing size of the fish being landed. Between 2007 and 2010, the average weight of a red snapper landed in the Gulf of Mexico increased from 3.32 to 5.34 pounds per fish. Between 2007 and 2008, there was a 29 percent increase in the average weight of red snapper landed. Between 2008 and 2009 there was an 18 percent increase in the average weight of red snapper landed. Between 2009 and 2010 there was a 5.4 percent increase in the average weight of red snapper landed. Between 2010 and 2011, stock assessment projections indicate average weight will increase by 10 percent. The observed increases in average weight appear to be tracking stock assessment projections, but at a slightly lower rate of increase. Increases in average weight are expected as the stock rebuilds and the number of older, larger fish in the population increases. For more information on how the red snapper season length was calculated, refer to a document titled "2011 Recreational Red Snapper Quota Closure Analysis" located on the Southeast Regional Office


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## Fin-Atic (Feb 25, 2011)

BOOO...48 days with wind blowing like this??? it better be flat all of june and the first half of july!!


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## tooshallow17 (Apr 10, 2009)

Wow........ seven weekends!!!! If I am lucky I will be able to go twice. This is bs.


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## DRILHER (Apr 4, 2010)

What a joke. There are more snapper out there than I have ever seen. I've had a offshore boat since 86 and fishing offshore since 78


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## Unbound (Jul 12, 2004)

mredman said:


> *48 days this year.....justified because we now catch bigger snapper....*
> *Mike*


You couldn't make this sh** up! :headknock


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## hilton (Jan 28, 2008)

*2011 Recreational Red Snapper Quota Closure Analysis*

There is no "2011 Recreational Red Snapper Quota Closure Analysis" on the NMFS site that I can find.

What a tortured, convoluted way to manage a fishery.

T.


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## mredman1 (Feb 4, 2007)

*Justification*

The new way for the government to justify our diminishing snapper season is to just claim our snapper are getting bigger every year.

Next year, they may say the average snapper is 10 pounds to justify a 30-day season.

Mike


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## tooshallow17 (Apr 10, 2009)

***!!!!! I don't get it? What is in it for them to be pulling this b.s.?


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## Miles2Fish (Dec 2, 2008)

They won't be happy unit it is one red snapper PER boat PER season!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Miles2Fish (Dec 2, 2008)

Ooops that should say until it is.....


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## DRILHER (Apr 4, 2010)

If the size and #s are increasing where is logic in reducing the season? OK we need to set some ragulations(used to only be a size limit) on snapper but there back now.


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## Swells (Nov 27, 2007)

If the SE tradewinds don't blow the season, the tropical storms sure will. However, do we get credit for them blowed up days you can't get out to sea? No way! I feel sick just reading this. You have a right to be upset.


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## elgatogus (Oct 27, 2010)

Wow......hwell: simply amazing!!!! This is totally wrong.... There are no words to describe these intelligent folks that come up with these dates!!  So dissapointing!!!! Seriously, gas at almost 4 dollars a gallon, and these winds, do you really think the quota is going to be met...???? Ummmm I don't think so.... 

I hope that the winds are down and flat all season! Seriously is there something we can all do against these very intelligent folks that come up with these dates?


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## Lumo (Mar 14, 2011)

I just got this from the CCA

*Governors Go to Bat for Longer Red Snapper Season*

Red snapper season in the Gulf is just around the corner, and if Texas Gov. Rick Perry and other Gulf state governors have their way, it will be a bit longer than anyone expected.

Guess they didn't have it their way.


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## BIG PAPPA (Apr 1, 2008)

*WELL MY MY*

Note to Self: Stop Feeding Deer at the Lease because they might get too big in weight and then they will cut my limit down. Stop feeding the Quail and Turkey too.
Are you Friggin kidding me..great Mentality. Totally un-beleivable.


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## CSCHOOLFIELD (Oct 27, 2005)

*junk science*

all I can say that can be published in a public forum is (*&)(^)&*@^%)*&@^!)(*!&@^$&@^)$(&@^$(*@^(&@^$&@*(&##&^$!$^! !!!!!!!!!!

maybe we should all buy butterfly nets. ceviche while trolling anyone?????


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## hilton (Jan 28, 2008)

*NMFS BS*

Here's a quick analysis.

They are claiming that since the fish are getting bigger, that they must cut the season, but the graph below says otherwise...using NMFS figures on the size of fish each year relative to projected/final poundage.

If you take what they claimed we caught in how many days, then 2011 will supposedly mean that we will be catching over 13,000 fish/day vs 5,900/day or 7,700/day in the last couple of years. (2010 figures were projected).

This is ANOTHER glaring example of how the NMFS is discriminating against recreational anglers which highly illegal. The commercial sector is enjoying a bountiful increase in the ACL while the recreational sector is denied access to the fishery based on obviously bogus reasoning.

Capt. Thomas J. Hilton


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## DRILHER (Apr 4, 2010)

Lumo said:


> I just got this from the CCA
> 
> *Governors Go to Bat for Longer Red Snapper Season*
> 
> ...


Claim more state waters. Then we can put in some reefs.


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## tcross34 (Jan 20, 2011)

Un-freaking believable!

What, doesnt that make Snapper about $50.00 per lb?


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## kweber (Sep 20, 2005)

typical buereaucratic reasoning.
yall dont forget that yer taxes pay the saleries of these folks.


are ya madder yet?


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## C BISHOP (Dec 4, 2007)

we have all been ****ed in the *** , like there is no tomorrow:headknock:headknock:headknock


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## 27contender (Dec 22, 2008)

tooshallow17 said:


> ***!!!!! I don't get it? What is in it for them to be pulling this b.s.?


Keeps you from noticing the "other" stuff they do to you. Their motto: Divide and Conquer or is it Conjurer. They are good at doing both.

Keep on em Boys!

R


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## 27contender (Dec 22, 2008)

kweber said:


> typical buereaucratic reasoning.
> yall dont forget that yer taxes pay the saleries of these folks.
> 
> are ya madder yet?


THAT'S it! I'm running for president and I'm gonna fix this s###!


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## jdusek (Apr 7, 2006)

It will come a time when we will just keep what the hell we decide to keep.


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## 27contender (Dec 22, 2008)

Not trying to start a fish fight with commercial harvesters, just trying to learn from history (which is a good teacher) and I figure there are some Captains on here that know more than I.

Can any one site an example of a commercially harvested fish that has recovered from over fishing while still being commercially harvested?

If there is an example it might apply to snapper. If there are no examples then, well it pretty much speaks for itself.


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## Hotwater (May 4, 2010)

Is there anyone who has the power to challenge this a hole? I can't believe any judge would let this carp stand, it is un-American or at least it used to be guess the world is changing. Wish we could throw crabtree overboard and have our own Texas tea party.


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## flying fish (Jul 2, 2010)

They are all paid off by the commercial industry. It is quite obvious. The reason i say this is look the way the math is done. They must have cut a FAT HOG with the commercial guys.


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## hog (May 17, 2006)

We need to only post up pictures of the 
Largest Piggy









the best Hard Tail









Prettiest Beliners 
since no one worrys about them









Best bait stealing Trigger fish 

















and  

Gas prices 









and after its all said and done, and all of the 
"Going out of Business" 
signs start popping up. They can explain to the marinas, tackle stores, bait houses, beach area gas stations, motels, and waffle houses, etc... Why Recreational fisherman dont bring money into their coastal areas any more and why their business's are going bankrupt

Federal









ps
we might as well face it, fish suppliers for restaurants have more power in our governments fishing regulatory committees than the millions of saltwater recreational fisherman who's just out to enjoy life on the water with his family and friends..

sorry,
I'll get off my 







​

​


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## Ernest (May 21, 2004)

Thats a big trigger.


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## awesum (May 31, 2006)

*Why pounds?*

I've said it before and will say it again.

Why do they even use pounds? If the *numbers* of these fish are declining then it seems feasible that we deal in *numbers* of fish caught.

Not pounds. What's pounds got to do with it?


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## sea sick (Feb 9, 2006)

Ernest said:


> Thats a big trigger.


Thats the Indigo Snapper hwell: It's the next talapia :rotfl:


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## Kenner21 (Aug 25, 2005)

What a total joke, eff them. Bring on those state water snaps! They are making it impossible for anyone with any common sense and reasoning to follow these total bs seasons decided with fake numbers.


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## Swells (Nov 27, 2007)

Naw you wait, the NMFS will continue to ratchet down and make the recreational limits a dang 2-hour "derby" so bad that we'll all say "Uncle" and beg for annual catch shares, at which time the catch limits in poundage will go way up. A third of us will never fish again, and the dang NMFS could give a rat's *** if all the marinas, bait shops, tackle outfits, and whatnot just goes outta business. If you think I am wrong, please let me know why.


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## sea sick (Feb 9, 2006)

Plenty of other fish to bring back to the dock, b-liners, lane, mangrove, wahoo, aj's,rockhinds,ling,do-do's, tripletail, warsaw, scamp, gag, snowys, tiles, tuna, swords, even dirty ol kingfish etc... Heck,even a trigger. I'll still fish. 

I like this new snapper season about as much as I like the fuel prices. Not at all.But I'll still fish. 

I'm guna say 20 fishable days (3ft or less) out of the proposed season. I'm sure the season next year will still be cut down. To many female fish vs. males caught by recs. It'll be something stupid,wait and see.


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## Kenner21 (Aug 25, 2005)

Yeah there are other fish but eventually this idiotic type of fishery management will affect a lot of those "other" species. It's already affected Red snapper,Amberjacks and some grouper species. What will happen when we are all really only allowed to fish for spades and triggers?


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## hilton (Jan 28, 2008)

*NMFS BS*

Kenner21 hit the nail on the head - this will be just the beginning unless we rise up and *STOP THE MADNESS*.
Capt. Thomas J. Hilton


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## capt4fish (Dec 4, 2004)

WE need to get back to the tar and feather and ride'm out on a rail days.


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## Elgatoloco (Feb 9, 2008)

2 Cents

last year almost every trip we did during snapper season at the dock we got stopped by a Texas parks and wildlife survey analysis asking to measure and weight each snapper we caught. I thought nothing of this the first time and just said ok and went on my way. The second time he asked I asked him what the info was for. He said it is to help measure for red snapper fish qouta from then on I said said no. If they want that info I feel they need to spend the time money and effort to get oylut there and see what's really going on out there themselves. The snapper are definitely huge, over populating and other targeted fish off of spots.

My 2 cents.

Tom


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## bailout2860 (Jan 23, 2009)

WHAT IS THE SIZE LIMIT AND HOW MANY CAN WE KEEP THIS YEAR


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## hilton (Jan 28, 2008)

*NMFS BS*

In order to justify this shortest season ever, Crabtree is claiming that we will be catching almost as many fish per day during these 48 days than we did in the last 2 years _combined_ (2009 + projected 2010).
2009 - 7,700 fish per day
2010 - 5,900 fish per day (projected, then oil spill happened)
Total - 13,600 fish per day combined

2011 - over 13,000 fish per day x 48 days

I call BS on that one Roy.

Capt. Thomas J. Hilton


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## Never easy (Mar 20, 2006)

total BS!!!!!!


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## TOM WEBER (Aug 14, 2005)

We rarely have calm til after POCO...no rec guys fish during the SEASON.....For me not that big of an issue, but for my kids a big deal. When it finally gets calm you get to feed the dolphins..!!!!!!


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## TOM WEBER (Aug 14, 2005)

Just sent a long letter via email...assuming catch data while we are still in the windy season is junk science to be polite.


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## Mrs. Vitamin Sea (Jun 18, 2010)

This is ridiculous!!!! Vitamin Sea and I are only able to go out twice a month so we will only get 3 weekends this summer and that is if the weather looks good!!!! 

The reason they gave for reducing the amount of days is completely ridiculous.


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## Lagniappe2008 (Jan 20, 2008)

Texas needs to secede, then we can make our own Federal regulations. Maybe that way we won't have some jackwagon telling us what we can and can't do. This is stupidity at its finest. I guess the one thing you can say about our governing entities is that they sure are consistant.

I know you guys are thinking this too, but wouldn't the fact that the fish are bigger on average, mean that the stock is healthier and those fish aren't actually being caught? Hold on to any logic you have these days, because that is going to be a valuable resource as we see less and less of it being practiced throughout this world.


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## jgale (Mar 4, 2011)

*Are they ignorant?*

Of course the fish-per-pound kept is going to go up. Why the hell with a 48 day season would anyone in their right mind go out and spend that kind of $ only to keep the first 2 legal fish in the boat? I know if everyone else is like me, they are going to cull, cull, cull, and keep the biggest fish they can catch. Common sense will tell you that the shorter they make the season and bag limits, the more we cull, till we catch those big breeders to fill the box.

Longer season and bigger bag limits will incline folks to keep some of the smaller ones because they can still fill the freezer!!! :hairout:


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## capt4fish (Dec 4, 2004)

AT the Gulf Coucil Meeting, Andy's projection for the next FOUR years showed NO MORE increases in days for recs. due to the average weight of snapper gowing up each year. The weight of snapper will offset the available quota wich is in pounds. 

Crabtree is using this( greater weights ) to keep recreational anglers off of the water. Making it much to difficult and not worth the effort to pursue red snapper. 

When effort is sufficiently low enough, catch shares will be implemented, then wealthy investors of the EDF,PEW and others will swoop in and buy up shares to reap a 400 % return (according to EDF director). 

I wrote both senators and my congressman. CORNYN is NOT OUR FRIEND. His RESPONSE was clearly in the favor of commercial interests. I wrote him back and told him that I would do everything I could to FIRE him next election.

Kenneth


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## Ernest (May 21, 2004)

"When effort is sufficiently low enough, catch shares will be implemented, then wealthy investors of the EDF,PEW and others will swoop in and buy up shares to reap a 400 % return (according to EDF director)." 

What is there some alternative reality in which "wealthy investors" are only of the green variety? They are not, and no tree hugger with a lick of sense believes that they are going to secure a 400% return. 

The reality is, if shares are to be auctioned, the auction process will result in a market based return in light of the risks presented.


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## jig (Aug 2, 2005)

awesum said:


> I've said it before and will say it again.
> 
> Why do they even use pounds? If the *numbers* of these fish are declining then it seems feasible that we deal in *numbers* of fish caught.
> 
> Not pounds. What's pounds got to do with it?


I agree Bobby. That's politician logic. By their own mouths they say the number of fish is plenty (overfished status ended in 2009) so we can catch more fish. Then they determine how many more fish we can catch by the total weight. And then conclude that since all the fish weight more, the actual number of excess fish we can catch is LESS than in the prior years.

So, there are plenty of fish, but we get less since they are bigger fish.


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## Rsnap (Aug 16, 2004)

*What happened?*

What happened to all the talk of taking them to court? I can not see how they can back up what they say! 
Rik

P.S. B.T.W - Going to be lots of State Water Snappers this year!


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## mredman1 (Feb 4, 2007)

*Texas*

We shouldn't take these draconian laws laying down. Otherwise, next year will be worse. Look at the last five years as proof.

Mike


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## Snookered (Jun 16, 2009)

When this happens



capt4fish said:


> AT the Gulf Coucil Meeting, Andy's projection for the next FOUR years showed NO MORE increases in days for recs. due to the average weight of snapper gowing up each year. The weight of snapper will offset the available quota wich is in pounds.
> 
> Crabtree is using this( greater weights ) to keep recreational anglers off of the water. Making it much to difficult and not worth the effort to pursue red snapper.
> 
> ...


Then I think you'll see a lot more of this.....



jdusek said:


> It will come a time when we will just keep what the hell we decide to keep.


and probably a lot of this.....



Rsnap said:


> P.S. B.T.W - Going to be lots of State Water Snappers this year!


snookered
(P.S. I do not personally condone this behavior or attitude.....but its going to happen if things continue down the road they are headed....wonder if the NMFS fishery managers are keeping in touch with law enforcement?)


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## hilton (Jan 28, 2008)

*NMFS BS*

We *UNDERFISHED* our quota by about *1 MILLION POUNDS* last year, yet Crabtree, consistent with his bigoted discrimination *AGAINST* recreational fishermen, declared that he could not credit the 1 million pounds toward this year's ACL. *Funny, since he sure is quick to deduct any supposed overages from the following year's ACL.* Double standard? You Bet. Illegal discrimination? I believe so.

If Crabtree had added the 1 million pounds to this year's ACL, then we would be looking at a 4.5 million pound TAC...equal to what we fished under for years *based on a 194 day season*. Let's see...48/194 = less than 25% access to the fishery for what should be the same poundage.

*A 75% reduction in access* based solely on a political vendetta that our Regional Administrator has is unacceptable, should be investigated immediately, and if found guilty, prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Think about the profound negative impacts of this one man's actions is having on the entire Gulf coastal communities and businesses.

*This is about as corrupt a system as you will find anywhere, headed by about as corrupt bureaucrat as you will find anywhere.*

Crabtree needs to go.

Capt. Thomas J. Hilton


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## EndTuition (May 24, 2004)

What are our options ?
I'm ready to help, but don't have any idea where to start. Seems like a lawsuit, or two, is needed here. Also maybe we can work to insure the EDF is kicked out of washington in 2012.


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## Swells (Nov 27, 2007)

EndTuition said:


> What are our options ?
> I'm ready to help, but don't have any idea where to start.


Sammie to the rescue. Instead of pounding the forums, and later t'day pounding the beer AND banging on the forums, start sending out *FOIA requests* for "any and all information, emails, documents, and meeting minutes related to the adoption of the 2011 red snapper season closure date." Something like that. Cheap fun, and more FOIA requests sent to the NMFS the better.

*Spam their email* website with thousands of emails, none suggesting anything illegal like a good keelhauling, but you get the picture. Publish their emails, fax numbers, phone numbers (fill up their phone mail), and so forth. Become a legal P.I.T.A. I know you can do it.

Meanwhile, we'll look for some businesses that depend on a good snapper season, and *might fail as a business*, and you need some good'uns because we might be looking for "standing" in a federal court of law. Let's talk to Jim Blackburn and other famous lawyers and see what they say. Despite our disagreements and spats, your friends might turn out to be some charter boys, the CCA, and even some snapper boat captains - they have to deal with the lowered ACL as well. You even want a coalition that includes one of the nicer "enviro" groups. Don't forget that Big Oil still has a ton of clout down here in the Gulf.

We've talked about *a blockade of sorts*, and those are illegal but we can have boat parades, regattas, boat races, and lots of flag waving for the press to take pictures. We need more than just a dozen boats up by Destin! Having some sort of race? Well get a real dang cannon and blow that sucker every couple minutes.

If you're gonna *"stand up for your rights"* you really need to grow some brass ones.

Well let's *sue them*. I think what you want is an injunction to overturn the "emergency rulemaking" that established an early closure of only 48 days of duration, and revert to the existing official closure that was more like 120 days. Even a Notice of Intent to Sue will get their attention. Let's find a favorable federal judge who loves to go snapper fishing and has a "judicial hellhole" reputation! We're going to have to fight nasty with nasty, folks, that's all I can say.


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## hilton (Jan 28, 2008)

*2011 Red Snapper Season Numbers Make No Sense*

Here's an email I sent this morning and copied most Gulf Council members and BBC'd some congressional and state reps;

Dr. Crabtree,
I have some folks from our Congressional and Governor's offices who are interested in how your office determined that this year's red snapper season would be 48 days. Why 48? Why not 47, or 49?

Please submit your calculations and reasoning on how your office arrived at this magic 48 day number.

As you can see with the enclosed graph, in order to catch our ACL in that short of a time frame, you are apparently calculating that we will catch as many fish per day as the last 2 years' daily average *COMBINED*.

Using similar catch rates as documented for 2009, and taking into account the increased size of fish this year, our calculations show that we should be looking at an 82 day season - not 48 days. Please explain why your calculations are so far off the mark.

They are also interested in why you do not want to include the 1 million pound overage with the 2011 allocation as requested by all 5 Gulf State Governors, which would have brought this year's ACL up to about 4.5 million pounds for the recreational sector. This poundage roughly equates to what we fished for several years based on a 194 day season and 4 fish bag limit, yet here we are today, looking at a 48 day season and 2 fish bag limit.

With the enormous negative impacts from last year's oil spill, many people are wondering why your office is not stepping up to help our struggling Gulf coastal economies and businesses by providing fair and equitable access to *ALL* anglers in the Gulf.

Thanks in advance,
Capt. Thomas J. Hilton


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## EndTuition (May 24, 2004)

From what I can see, it's the state governors who can help the most, and can help quickly. With the EDF ******* off just about every Governor, maybe a coalition can be formed.
Sorry, I don't see emails or the CCA being of any help. One can be easily ignored (history already tells us that), the other easily corrupted. Why can't we go after the EDF directly, show the nation how they operate and how they have run rough shod over the citizens and the processes in place to protect us from groups just like them. The EDF is the ACORN of the environmental left. You take their campaign contributions; you lose the sportsman's vote. You take their orders, you lose your job.
I know, easier said than done. Who is out there that can or currently does challenge the EDF. That's who I want to help.


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## Rsnap (Aug 16, 2004)

*Right!*



EndTuition said:


> What are our options ?
> I'm ready to help, but don't have any idea where to start. Seems like a lawsuit, or two, is needed here. Also maybe we can work to insure the EDF is kicked out of washington in 2012.


Where does RFA, CCA & others stand on this? Someone should start legal action and I belive we would all get behind them!
Rik


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## Rsnap (Aug 16, 2004)

*Right!*



mredman said:


> We shouldn't take these draconian laws laying down. Otherwise, next year will be worse. Look at the last five years as proof.
> 
> Mike


Right you are!
Rik


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## snapper slapper lures (Jul 6, 2004)

*pirate patch*

I think we all should put our pirate eye patch on and let them try to catch and prove where fish were caught . There is no way they can prove as long as you make stops inside 9 miles. This is turning good people into so called lawbreakers. Personally I got my pirate patch on LOL,. Woody



mredman said:


> *48 days this year.....justified because we now catch bigger snapper....*
> *Mike*
> 
> Southeast Fishery Bulletin
> ...


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## jgale (Mar 4, 2011)

Anyone know a good attorney? I think we could at the very least hire them to review the case and see if we could make it work. I just don't know on what grounds we would be suing for. At the very least, if there was a suit filed, we could get all the data you ever hoped to see during the discovery process.

Set up a save the snapper fishing fund, and I would gladly be the first to pitch in to get the process going.


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## mredman1 (Feb 4, 2007)

*Governor of Texas*

Rick Perry supports Texas offshore fisherman.

Attached is a letter he sent to the GOM Fishery Council.

http://www.joincca.org/media room/Gulf/TexasRS.pdf

Perry also acknowledges Tom Hilton's position on the carryover from 2010 to 2011.

Mike


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## Rsnap (Aug 16, 2004)

*This is all they understand!*



jgale said:


> Anyone know a good attorney? I think we could at the very least hire them to review the case and see if we could make it work. I just don't know on what grounds we would be suing for. At the very least, if there was a suit filed, we could get all the data you ever hoped to see during the discovery process.
> 
> Set up a save the snapper fishing fund, and I would gladly be the first to pitch in to get the process going.


Their whole concept is B.S. Start with their history - The gave exception after exception to comm. fisherman over the years and NEVER gave one to the rec. fisherman. Have them explain point by point all their numbers.Point out flaws - like un intended effects of lies and bad policy.
Everyone knows the over protection of Red Snapper in fed. waters is causing other reef fish to be displaced (Grouper and A.J. * even Trigger).
When a fish like Dorado is so fast growing yet un protected by bag limet or size where is the wisdom.

We have reached a point as a nation where we can not afford to have guys like this calling the shots! This whole thing is a fed. power grab!
Rik


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## mredman1 (Feb 4, 2007)

*Gulf of Mexico Fishery Management Counsil*

Attached is the link to the GOM Fishery Management Counsil. You can express your comments to them.

http://www.gulfcouncil.org/contact.php

Mike


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## Rsnap (Aug 16, 2004)

*Perry is helping*



mredman said:


> Rick Perry supports Texas offshore fisherman.
> 
> Attached is a letter he sent to the GOM Fishery Council.
> 
> ...


Mabie the state will sue the feds! We could help with a fund to help save the Red Snapper from the mis management & incompentence of NMF!
Rik


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## REELING 65 (Aug 18, 2009)

DRILHER said:


> What a joke. There are more snapper out there than I have ever seen. I've had a offshore boat since 86 and fishing offshore since 78


48days,well the weather better be real nice most of that time.
I guess we all should take advantage of all the chances we get. During this short time slot.
Yes complete BS!


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## EndTuition (May 24, 2004)

Governor Perry's letter is great, but it's lip service. I think he has taken the sportsmans vote for granted for long enough. What else is he willing to do ? Replace members from Texas with vocal empowered members who arn't looking for a job with the EDF. Join other states in filing suit ? I think we make it too easy for him. He hates DC as much as we do, lets give him a reason to go after these clowns too.


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## capt4fish (Dec 4, 2004)

I posted Hiltons e-mail exchange under "snapper wars". Everyone needs to read this letter.

I also posted a link to write your reps.


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## EndTuition (May 24, 2004)

mredman said:


> Attached is the link to the GOM Fishery Management Counsil. You can express your comments to them.
> 
> http://www.gulfcouncil.org/contact.php
> 
> Mike


DONE !


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## tngbmt (May 30, 2004)

until the press carries our cause in print and on air .. we dont have a political voice, they can just ignore us and do anything they want. the old .. your concern are important to us and we're looking into it is BS .. if perry want to help, call a press conference and state his opposition to this ruling.


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## capt4fish (Dec 4, 2004)

The Gulf Council HAS NO PULL. THEY ARE FLUNKIES. THE ARE BOUGHT AND PAID FOR BY EDF,PEW AND OTHER NGO'S.

We have to do our part. Contact your reps. Demand that they stop this stuff.

http://www.usa.gov/Contact/Elected.shtml

This is Hiltons e-mail correspondence to the NMFS. As you can read they are clearly playing ball against the Rec. sector.

Mr. Strelcheck,

According to your analysis; 
"An important dynamic in the recreational red snapper fishery that can affect season length is the ability of the recreational sectors to compensate for reductions in season length by compressing their effort into a limited season. This dynamic has been observed in other fisheries, such as the red snapper commercial fishery prior to implementation of the Individual Fishing Quota program, and is commonly referred to as 'effort compensation', 'effort stuffing', or a 'derby fishery.' The term 'effort compensation' includes the dynamics of more anglers on the water during the open season (rather than spreading their effort across the year), and the ability of individual anglers or for-hire vessels to run multiple trips in a day."

"Based on an average weight of 5.9 pounds, the season length is estimated to be between 39 and 48 days. The shortest season is based on effort compensation continuing to increase as the season is shortened, while the longest season assumes effort becomes saturated and anglers cannot compress any additional effort into the open season as the season becomes shorter. Based on methods used historically to project the red snapper season and an average weight of 5.9 lbs ww, the season is estimated to be 46 days. It is estimated that each day the red snapper is open, an average of 72,000-88,000 lbs of red snapper are landed."

The problem with what you are claiming is that you are totally discounting your own numbers from years past in an obvious attempt to set the stage for the justification of catch shares via the "derby fishery" argument;
*2009* - Since the rec TAC of 2.45 million pounds (MP) was reduced by the supposed fishing overage of 1.22 MP in 2008, the balance became 1.23 MP. Once all the figure came, y'all calimed that the rec sector overfished its quota by 1.7 MP in 2009. So, 1.22 MP + 1.7 MP = 2.92 MP / 76 day season = 38,421 pounds caught per day. 38,421/5.0 pounds per fish = 7,684 fish caught per day.
*2010* - (projected) Since the rec TAC of 3,403,050 pounds was reduced by the supposed fishing overage of 1.7 MP in 2009, the balance became 1,703,050 pounds, which your office then computed to be caught in 54 days. 1,703,050 / 54 day season = 31,538 pounds caught per day. 31,538/5.34 pounds per fish = 5,906 fish projected to be caught per day.
*2011* - Since the rec TAC was NOT reduced by any overages from previous years, it supposedly was to provide full value of 3,520,650 pounds. If you assume, and you do in your analysis, that effort remains constant at 2009 levels, and compensate for the larger size projected for 2011 to be 5.9 pounds; 7,684 fish caught per day x 5.9 pounds = 45,336 pounds caught per day. 3,520,650 pound TAC / 43,336 = *81 day season*.

What is troubling however, is that your office is somehow estimating that each day the 2011 red snapper is open, an average of 72,000-88,000 lbs of red snapper are landed...(more specifically, 3,520,650 / 48 days = 73,347 pounds projected to be caught each day). *If you take the TOTAL COMBINED poundage caught per day from the previous 2 years, it totals up to be 69,959 pounds (38,421 + 31,538), yet your office is now claiming that the recs are going to somehow catch 73,347 pounds, or 12,432 fish per day? Really? *

That directly contradicts your *OWN* figures. It looks as though your office is part of the problem here, as since you have repeatedly demonstrated a severe bias and discrimination against the recreational anglers in the Gulf of Mexico. An example of this clear discrimination is the commercial sector is enjoying an increased bounty year/round while the recreational sector is barred access to the fishery using biased, discriminatory, and distorted reasoning. Another glaring example of your bias against recreational anglers was the sector separation presentation at the last Gulf Council meeting. By your own admission, if the private recs got 54%, and the CFH got 46% of the allocation, then there was no reduction in either group's seasons - however, you apparently and arbitrarily determined that the private recs did not deserve a 54% allocation and therefore should be penalized in 11 out of the 12 scenarios presented. Did I mention that you have refused to add the 1,000,000 pound under-fishing credit from 2010 to this year's quota, when you are surely quick to *DEDUCT* any overages from the next year's quota? Clearly discriminatory, and not something that the American Public should expect from it public servants.

Any reasonable person can clearly see that your actions above are in direct violation of National Standard 4, which states; *
"Conservation and management measures shall not discriminate between residents of different States. If it becomes necessary to allocate or assign fishing privileges among various United States fishermen, such allocation shall be (A) fair and equitable to all such fishermen; (B) reasonably calculated to promote conservation; and (C) carried out in such manner that no particular individual, corporation, or other entity acquires an excessive share of such privileges." *

This 2011 48 day red snapper season is clearly not justified, by *YOUR OWN *documentation of past effort/landing results, and needs to be revisited to provide *Fair and Equitable* access to the fishery for recreational angling community *as dictated by law*. The Gulf Coast communities, fishermen, and businesses deserve a Fair and Equitable determination of our Red Snapper Season, which we view to be in the neighborhood of 81 days, especially when considering the recent disaster of 2010 in the Gulf and its devastaing effects on our collective livelyhoods and economies.

Regards,
Capt. Thomas J. Hilton


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## hilton (Jan 28, 2008)

*snapper wars*

Hopefully, if we can expose the failed logic being employed here which is resulting in loss of access to our fishery, loss of economic opportunities, and loss of our freedoms, we can get some Congressional relief which I believe is coming our way.

*"An important dynamic in the recreational red snapper fishery that can affect season length is the ability of the recreational sectors to compensate for reductions in season length by compressing their effort into a limited season. **This dynamic has been observed in other fisheries, such as the red snapper commercial fishery prior to implementation of the Individual Fishing Quota program, and is commonly referred to as 'effort compensation', 'effort stuffing', or a 'derby fishery.'** The term 'effort compensation' includes the dynamics of more anglers on the water during the open season (rather than spreading their effort across the year), and the ability of individual anglers or for-hire vessels to run multiple trips in a day."*

Two things stick out here; 

1) If "effort compensation" is really a problem, then the NMFS itself is responsbile for causing the problem due to their unjustified truncated seasons. Simply set the seasons based on fair and equitable parameters, such as illustrated by the more reasonable 81 day season scenario, then that solves the "effort compensation" problem. Voila! Simple.

2) This is a thinly-veiled squeeze play by Crabtree and Co. to try to justify the implementation of catch shares - plain and simple. As mentioned in the effort compensation gobbledy ****, this dangerous "race for fish" or "derby fishery" was the justification for implementing the commercial IFQ system about 5 years ago. This, coupled with NOAA Fisheries' recent announcement that they want to alter National Standard 10 to include CFH and Headboats, echoes the same agenda - instead of catch shares being an "option", if they alter N.S. 10 then catch shares would be "required" due to the safety requirements as required by "law".

NOAA Fisheries needs a serious flushing, as this smells to high heaven.

Capt. Thomas J. Hilton


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## Yella Fevre (Jun 12, 2007)

I am an environmental/civil engineer, and Mr. Hilton, you are definitely educated and are doing a spectacular job on this subject. My hats off to you!

One thing we may want to consider, is to challenge their data and calculations. I was a nerd/science major and the biggest concern to the marine biologists and fishery scientists is to challenge their methodology and data! It appears that based on Mr. Hilton's assessment, there may be some flaws in data and calculations in their haste to put this information out and decrease the allowable fishing days. Has anyone asked to if they account in their calcs or data for non-fishable days due to inclement weather in which NOAA should gladly have? 

State and federal regulatory agencies to this all the time when regulating water and air. I am assuming that there data is based on who's calculations and research data? In the engineering field, we use independent company's to do analysis (split samples) alongside the state and federal regulatory agencies when they take water, sewer, air, etc. samples when it could affect or not affect a public client or create a "violation". If we didnt, how could we refute the TCEQ and EPA samples and conclusions on behalf of our clients? IT WORKS! 

Could we not engage a university OR pro-fishing group to act as an independent "auditor". It is my opinion, that we strike at the heart of their argument, which is their data and methodology? What kind of quality control and analysis do they have in their reports? Is it a 30K a year graduate student who could not get a job in the real/private sector and is upset he has to work for NMFS doing their data or making it up?

I can guarantee that they are making a lot of "assumptions" in their calculations that no one appears to be challenging! If you have any kind of study that refutes their data, it will cause some discreprancies in their data and result in a loss of confidence by those passing the laws who rely on their data and methodology. 

Where's CCA? Who lobbies for rec fishermen?


PS, my wife is an attorney, and its hard to sue the feds. Its like trying to sue NOAA for bad weather???? Dadgomeit!


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## AirbornXpress (Sep 27, 2006)

*Crabtree*



HOT WATER said:


> Is there anyone who has the power to challenge this a hole? I can't believe any judge would let this carp stand, it is un-American or at least it used to be guess the world is changing. Wish we could throw crabtree overboard and have our own Texas tea party.


 Crabtrap


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## Swells (Nov 27, 2007)

Hat's off to Capt. Hilton and Yella Fevre, anyone can challenge the data and number crunching, as you say, and I've caught the EPA "with their pants down" a few times myself. Basically, NMFS made a horrible mistake in their math - and they probably know it and hope that nobody finds it (Hilton is close). 

It does look better if you get a well-respected academic to take a look at the matter. But think about it, we don't have time to hire a $15,000 consultant through a university that would take 3 months to execute, which would be fast for them. 

But you know what happened, Yella. Some worker like you or me ginned up some numbers on a spreadsheet, handed it out at a high level meeting, and what happened from there was ALL politics, and "numbers be damned." Well, you can catch them on stuff like that.

It works, folks!


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## TOM WEBER (Aug 14, 2005)

Thanks guys for your work at putting this data together. Sadly emotions are more important than true good science these days in the policy making arena. TW


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## surfcowboy (Jun 29, 2005)

hilton said:


> Here's a quick analysis.
> 
> They are claiming that since the fish are getting bigger, that they must cut the season, but the graph below says otherwise...using NMFS figures on the size of fish each year relative to projected/final poundage.
> 
> ...


I would like to know how we went over by 1.7 mil. pounds when 1/2 the gulf was shut down and 40% of the red snapper that are caught come from that area


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## CoastalOutfitters (Aug 20, 2004)

read this and the use of..................... "assumed" and "interpolated"

http://www.sefsc.noaa.gov/sedar/download/SEDAR7-AW-22.pdf?id=DOCUMENT

these figures go way back and are purely some guys blue sky figures, there was no real documentation. They couldn't even acct for real red snapper, gutted vs live weight and finally look at the east and west zone landings , TX is getting continually screwed unless they will split the gulf for accountability.

and this is only the comm. side, they don't have a freakin clue what rec. landings are, it is all guesstimates.............

now, look at your own fishing habits, reccs. by far fish on the weekends, we don't land the same poundage on weekdays as weekends, throw in weather and fuel prices............it is impossible to come up with their #'s


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## Rsnap (Aug 16, 2004)

*Sue Em! They do not fear talk!*



Swells said:


> Hat's off to Capt. Hilton and Yella Fevre, anyone can challenge the data and number crunching, as you say, and I've caught the EPA "with their pants down" a few times myself. Basically, NMFS made a horrible mistake in their math - and they probably know it and hope that nobody finds it (Hilton is close).
> 
> It does look better if you get a well-respected academic to take a look at the matter. But think about it, we don't have time to hire a $15,000 consultant through a university that would take 3 months to execute, which would be fast for them.
> 
> ...


This is how its done! The letter you send is regestered! It says SEE YOU IN COURT & be ready to prove what you say! Could well take more than this season (and $), but this is the LONG TERM FIX! Once flaws are exposed in court NMF will never be the same!:idea:
Rik


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## Yella Fevre (Jun 12, 2007)

Not going to give in! NMFS will NOT make me sell the boat! Dont give in, lets stick together and fish smarter, I am!

thank God i bought Riks book. Gonna fish fish the heck north of mansfield at the rocks. then fish shrimpers in July, then Ajs in August. I have two boys to pass this on to, and not going to let the treehuggers ruin it for them!

Just gonna have to fish smart.


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## mredman1 (Feb 4, 2007)

*Action*

It is my hope that we do more than just express our views on 2cool. I joined RFA two years ago because they represent the recreational fisherman.

I encourage everyone to join this organization, write and call congressman and although it may fall on deaf ears, we need to keep the pressure on Crabtree and his blooters.

Mike


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## Yella Fevre (Jun 12, 2007)

redman, what is RFA?


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## Swells (Nov 27, 2007)

Yella Fevre said:


> redman, what is RFA?


Recreational Fishing Alliance:
http://www.joinrfa.org/Index.asp

Nothing about the red snapper boondoggle on their website, though, and I haven't heard from Jim Smarr either.

Seem like good people though.


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## Unbound (Jul 12, 2004)

Yella Fevre said:


> Not going to give in! NMFS will NOT make me sell the boat! Dont give in, lets stick together and fish smarter, I am!
> 
> thank God i bought Riks book. Gonna fish fish the heck north of mansfield at the rocks. then fish shrimpers in July, then Ajs in August. I have two boys to pass this on to, and not going to let the treehuggers ruin it for them!
> 
> Just gonna have to fish smart.


Adapting to NMFS's rules is not the long term answer. They have tried to pressure Texas into aligning to their ridiculous seasons and limits and they will keep trying. AJs and other species are facing stricter regulations.

Maybe they'll leave us tunny and jacks


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## piratelight (May 2, 2008)

So much for the fisheries cross fire board.


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## El Sellador (Apr 30, 2011)

Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.


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## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

we are all being butt raped


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## El Sellador (Apr 30, 2011)

It's only going to get worse. It's the p#ssyfication of America. We are all sheep.


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## Day0ne (Jan 14, 2006)

snapper slapper lures said:


> I think we all should put our pirate eye patch on and let them try to catch and prove where fish were caught . There is no way they can prove as long as you make stops inside 9 miles. This is turning good people into so called lawbreakers. Personally I got my pirate patch on LOL,. Woody


Crabtree will just "assume" that's what is happening and deduct however much he guesstamates the amount is from the TAC or whatever it's called this year.


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## El Sellador (Apr 30, 2011)

Lubchenco has said her expressed goal was to eliminate a "significant fraction" of the fleet. Recreational fishing fleet perhaps.


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## mredman1 (Feb 4, 2007)

*TAC*

*TAC* really means *Totally Asinine Carp*.

Encarta Dictionary: ****
English (North America)
An offensive term for nonsense, or something worthless or annoying

Note: This word should not be banned because it has multiple meanings.


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