# Thoughts on a 12wt reel?



## BRH (May 11, 2011)

Going to be building a new 12wt soon, and I'm trying to decide on a reel. I want to stay away from a cork drag.

At the moment the one at the top of my list is the Lamson Vanquish. I've got quite a few of their Litespeeds and have all the confidence in the world in their drag system. Mt 10wt has a litespeed 4 on it and it has held up well offshore.

Trying to keep my options open though, so I'm also looking at..

Nautilus
Galvan
Hatch
Ross
Orvis Mirage
Hardy

Anyone have any pros/cons they can offer up on any given reel?


----------



## Top_Dog (Aug 1, 2007)

For what it's worth, I picked up a Kraken XLA 4 for a 10wt setup and it has great drag. It's got a large arbor for sucking up line fast.

You don't see them very often either, kinda neat.


----------



## THE JAMMER (Aug 1, 2005)

Check out the Abel X stream I have listed on here under "discount fly fishing gear." Great Abel performance at a non abel price. Negotiable.


----------



## BRH (May 11, 2011)

Thanks, but I'm trying to stay away from the cork drags. Also looking for something new.

I'm liking the way that Nautilus CCFX2 looks, but I'm a little hesitant on the Cork and Carbon Fiber. Anyone have any experience with these? Are they maintenance free?


----------



## Backcast (Jul 22, 2005)

*Good article on drag systems*

http://midcurrent.com/gear/brake-jobs/

Joe

I have a Tibor Gulfstream on a Hardy sintrix 12 wt.


----------



## Finn Maccumhail (Feb 16, 2009)

Just my opinion but if you're looking for a 12-wt rig you're hunting big game and need a tried & true drag system that's pretty much bulletproof.

For me, that begins & ends with the Tibor Gulfstream. I've fished the Hatch Finatic 11+ and it's a great reel too but it's also $150 more than the Tibor and Tibor has a longer track record behind it.


----------



## MarkA70 (May 3, 2011)

Guys, hate to be negative about equipment since there is so much good stuff out there. However, just got back from Belize and saw a 12wt Echo that BLEW UP, really, the reel was in 3 pieces, brand new, fought a 100 lbs Tarpon about 5 minutes and went south, unreal (unreel). Do Not buy Echo! My Mirage and Tibors work GREAT!!!!


----------



## BRH (May 11, 2011)

Backcast said:


> http://midcurrent.com/gear/brake-jobs/
> 
> Joe
> 
> I have a Tibor Gulfstream on a Hardy sintrix 12 wt.


That's a good article. Thanks for sharing.

I do understand the ins and outs of the different drag systems. There is nothing wrong with a cork drag, I just don't see them as having much advantage over all the modern high end sealed drag systems. 20 years ago it would have been a different argument. I guess it really comes down to preference, and for me, I am wanting to go the non-cork route.

Mark, the Echos were never on my list to begin with, but thanks for the heads up.

Finn, I do like that Hatch 11+. It's definitely up there on my list.

Top Dog, I have not looked at those yet, but I guess I will!


----------



## RUFcaptain (Aug 12, 2011)

Hatch best of the best.


----------



## red34 (Jun 2, 2004)

Do any of you guys use the Van Staal C-VEX? I don't do this much, but I have a 13wt and a 10wt set up with intermediate billfish and tarpon lines (respectively). I've never really put either to the test on a large tuna or billfish, but at the price I built both combos, I couldn't resist.


----------



## RUFcaptain (Aug 12, 2011)

The thing about a 12 wt, or any big reel, is the drag. These reels are handling big, strong saltwater fish that will push your drag to the limit. No other gamefish will get you into the backing like a 20-30# YFT. Last year in Cabo the carbon drag on my Ross Canyon BG was literally smoking and grinding. So don't skimp on the reel with a heavy rod, there ain't no brook trout offshore!:mpd:


----------



## Erichugh22 (Mar 31, 2014)

Just curious, why do you want to stay away from the cork drag?


----------



## BRH (May 11, 2011)

The cork drags are generally an open design that require more maintenance. Nothing wrong with them, I would just rather have one that is sealed and a little more worry free.


----------



## Finn Maccumhail (Feb 16, 2009)

Every guide I've known who goes after tarpon uses Tibor.


----------



## surfsideperson (Aug 22, 2005)

*Ross reels*

I have had a ross reel for 5 or 6 years and landed some nice fish never had a single issue- 12 wt


----------



## CoastalOutfitters (Aug 20, 2004)

ross, hardy, tibor pate, or maybe even the old penn, but it's heavy


----------



## lapesca67 (Apr 9, 2008)

I have a Tibor Gulfstream and a Riptide. They are bullet proof and I have landed numerous Tarpon and Sailfish on both. You will not regret buying this Brand.


----------



## YAKNTX (Jun 6, 2010)

Loop Opti
Great reel. Very large arbor with fast line pickup and a great drag system


----------



## Coconut Groves (Nov 2, 2011)

BRH said:


> The cork drags are generally an open design that require more maintenance. Nothing wrong with them, I would just rather have one that is sealed and a little more worry free.


Sealed carbon fiber drags might give the impression they are worry free, but I actually worry about them failing on large fish. Bones, permit, large reds, not a problem, 120+ lb tarpon, I would.

Cork did the job for decades before carbon fiber came out. IMO, you are selling yourself short by excluding them. Marketers have done a great job telling the consumer that carbon fiber, sealed drags are better.

Guess what? I've sent back more "sealed" carbon fiber drag reels than my cork reels. When I fish for tarpon, I use a Tibor when at all possible. Nothing beats the delicate sensitivity and ability to fine tune and crank it down. And it won't fail like some carbon drags have on me.

Carbon fiber "big game" drags have cost me a marlin on the fly, nearly a huge dorado (I had to hand palm the reel manually), and nearly a large tarpon.

The only other reel I'll consider is the Nautilus hybrid since it is cork and carbon fiber. Other than that, it is Tibor. They also make a new sealed drag with their Signature series. It is a, you guessed it, cork drag.


----------



## BRH (May 11, 2011)

My question was, and still is, if anyone had any input on any of the non-cork reels. Donâ€™t get your panties all in a wad thinking I am trashing Tibor or Abel, because I am definitely not. They both make top notch reels that are proven and have been on the market a long time. And yes, cork did do the job for decades before these other materials came about, but so did fiberglass rods, and fiberglass push poles, and heavy deep draft boats, and heavy inefficient motors. I could go on and on, but you get the point. Just about everything that we use as outdoorsmen is evolving and improving with technology, and fly reels are no different. And though it continues to do a good job, if you think cork is the end all be all in drag material the you are selling YOURSELF short, IMO. And let me be very clear that I am not looking at the cheaper reels, so taking a $100-200 Chinese made piece of junk and putting it up against a Tibor or Abel is obviously not going to be a fair comparison. That is why I am asking if anyone has any experience with, Lamson, Hatch, Ross, Hardy, Nautilus (yes, I know itâ€™s a hybridâ€¦), Galvan, etc. So thank you to those that responded to the actual question.

This thread was not intended to turn into a debate about cork vs everything else. As I said before, I understand the pros and cons of each and donâ€™t really care to hear about how you think Tibor is the best. If you fish with a Tibor, and you really love it, thatâ€™s great. Iâ€™m just choosing to look at other options.

Itâ€™s going to be awhile before I even get around to building the rod. Heck, I havenâ€™t even selected the blank yet (and no, I donâ€™t need any input here eitherâ€¦ we will leave that discussion for another day), so it will be a few months before I even need the reel. As of now I am leaning towards the Lamson Vanquish 12 and the Hatch 11+, but if anyone has experience with any of the others Iâ€™d still like to hear about it.

Thanks


----------



## Finn Maccumhail (Feb 16, 2009)

I have Lamson Velocity reels on my 10wt and one of my 8wt rigs. No real thoughts on the Vanquish but I've had a number of people whose judgment I respect say that while Lamson makes a very high-quality reel their drag system just isn't up to par to handle the fish you're targeting with a 12wt.

I've used Hatch before and they're fantastic. If you'd prefer to avoid the Tibor you would do really well with a Hatch. Or Nautilus for that matter.

My suggestion of Tibor over Hatch was a combination of price (Gulfstream is about $700 &Hatch is about $800) and length of track record.

Another option to look at would be the new 3-Tand T-120. It's less than $500 and was designed/made by the same guy who started Van Staal.


----------



## BRH (May 11, 2011)

Thanks Finn,

I do appreciate the input. I have also heard similar things in regards to the Lamson drag, but in both cases it was pure speculation as neither of them had actually used the Vanquish 12. Iâ€™ve got the Litespeed 4 on my 10 WT. It handles the smaller tarpon just fine, and has stood up to some blistering runs from large kingfish offshore. The drag on the Vanquish is supposed to be bigger and beefier, but Iâ€™ve never actually handled one in person. The other thing is line capacityâ€¦ The Vanquish is supposed to hold 175 yds of 30# with WF12, whereas the Hatch holds 250 with the large arbor and 400 with the mid arbor. Though it might be rarely needed, that extra 75 yards of line could be a nice thing to have. 

Those 3-tand reels look nice as well. Iâ€™ll check them out.


----------



## zack3476 (Jun 22, 2012)

I like my Tibors, never had a problem with the cork drag; however, I just picked up a Galvan t-12 and I'm anxious to test it out on some tarpon if I can arrange a date with the weather. I also have a t-8 and t-10, both of which have performed flawlessly, so I would expect nothing less out of the 12. The Galvan should be high on your list.


----------



## Coconut Groves (Nov 2, 2011)

BRH said:


> My question was, and still is, if anyone had any input on any of the non-cork reels. Donâ€™t get your panties all in a wad thinking I am trashing Tibor or Abel, because I am definitely not.



I never thought you were trashing Tibor. I did give you input on non-cork reels and stated you might be overlooking cork because the perception is that carbon fiber is better.



BRH said:


> This thread was not intended to turn into a debate about cork vs everything else. As I said before, I understand the pros and cons of each and donâ€™t really care to hear about how you think Tibor is the best. If you fish with a Tibor, and you really love it, thatâ€™s great. Iâ€™m just choosing to look at other options.


You asked for feedback on sealed drag systems. There are sealed drag systems with cork - Tibor makes one. So does Nautilus (it is a hybrid with composite). I never said Tibor was the best, I said I trust it the most. Very big difference.

You are getting a bit mouthy with your comments here. If you don't care, then why did you ask for opinions? You can choose to consider the feedback or not, I didn't force it down your throat. It's your cash and decision, but I'd hope you be open to people who've not only bought big game reels, but have used them for better or worse. If you don't like what you read, no need to turn around and trash me or anyone else's comments - I was trying to help a brother out here.



BRH said:


> Itâ€™s going to be awhile before I even get around to building the rod. Heck, I havenâ€™t even selected the blank yet (and no, I donâ€™t need any input here eitherâ€¦ we will leave that discussion for another day), so it will be a few months before I even need the reel. As of now I am leaning towards the Lamson Vanquish 12 and the Hatch 11+, but if anyone has experience with any of the others Iâ€™d still like to hear about it.
> Thanks


Skip the Lamson - there simply is just not enough surface area on their drags to stop large fish. I used them on 6 weights up to 9 weights, but wouldn't trust the drag on anything above that. I've also had to send their reels back several times due to the drag not really being "sealed" like advertised. I like them because of their weight though, so that's why I use them.

I've also sent back a few Ross Momentums, which are supposedly some of the best on the market. I've used them on 10 - 14 weight rods, but these have also failed on me. My Tibor has never failed. Open one up and you'll see - very few parts, very easy to maintain, and a large surface area to stop fish.

If you set on sealed, check out Nautilus, Hatch and the new Tibor.


----------



## BRH (May 11, 2011)

Iâ€™m not being â€œmouthyâ€ and certainly not trashing you. To answer your question, I asked for opinions on one set of reels but received opinions on totally different ones. Those are the ones I donâ€™t care to hear about. And yes, you are correct, all I need to do is look past them. It just gets old when you ask a question about a Ford and all people want to do is jump in and tell you how much better their Chevy is. 

I understand you are trying to help, and I appreciate that. Thank you for the input on the Lamsonâ€¦ thatâ€™s kind of the feedback Iâ€™ve been getting all around (though Iâ€™m still trying to find someone thatâ€™s actually owned or fished with the Vanquish 12).

Iâ€™ve put my hands on the Hatch and liked what I felt, and Iâ€™m very intrigued with the Nautilus. But hell, Iâ€™ll even take a look at the new Tibor just so you can say â€œI told you soâ€!


----------



## Coconut Groves (Nov 2, 2011)

BRH said:


> Iâ€™m not being â€œmouthyâ€ and certainly not trashing you. To answer your question, I asked for opinions on one set of reels but received opinions on totally different ones. Those are the ones I donâ€™t care to hear about. And yes, you are correct, all I need to do is look past them. It just gets old when you ask a question about a Ford and all people want to do is jump in and tell you how much better their Chevy is.
> 
> I understand you are trying to help, and I appreciate that. Thank you for the input on the Lamsonâ€¦ thatâ€™s kind of the feedback Iâ€™ve been getting all around (though Iâ€™m still trying to find someone thatâ€™s actually owned or fished with the Vanquish 12).
> 
> Iâ€™ve put my hands on the Hatch and liked what I felt, and Iâ€™m very intrigued with the Nautilus. But hell, Iâ€™ll even take a look at the new Tibor just so you can say â€œI told you soâ€!


Got ya. Nautilus does have a new reel coming out called the Silver King which one best in show at a recent expo. It is a pure big game reel. I didn't think twice about Nautilus until I held one and felt the drag. Very smooth, zero start up friction, and it can seriously be cranked down.

Personally, Hatch look great, but their weight for cost turns me off a bit. I've never fished one so I can't say for sure though. People who fish them love them, but it really depends on the size fish that is on the other side.

I used to think Ross Momentums were the best for the money until I lost big fish because on them. I also used to not touch cork reels because I wasn't interested in the open design and thought carbon fiber was superior. That changed when I finally used one - there is just a level of sensitivity you have that is hard to compare to. That's why I recommended the Tibor Signature (sealed cork) and the Nautilus - that hybrid cork design is the best of both worlds.

Post what you decide. Better yet, catch a huge fish and post a picture with the new reel.


----------

