# Best 9mm self defense ammo?



## vitamin sea (May 23, 2004)

Not a re-loader here. 

If you could only purchase one type/brand/weight of 9mm to defend yourself and your family....regardless of price....what would it be?

The choices seem endless.

I know 9mm is not everyone's favorite round and most will probably recommend another caliber but what's your favorite/most dependable 9mm round?

Thanks,
Rex


----------



## TaylayA&M15' (Aug 2, 2014)

RBCD ammo light armor piercing ,explosive frangible , limited penetration. Their made in Texas that's what I carry in mine , their badass rounds !


----------



## boss11 (Nov 18, 2010)

I carry Federal 9mm Hydrashock 124gr Low Recoil. 

Its a GREAT and POWERFUL round for the money.

I use the Federal Hydrashock Low Recoil Rounds in my everyday carry guns (Glock 19 and Glock 23)


----------



## locolobo (Dec 2, 2005)

Have gone with 115 gr Hornady XTP lately. Used to load up 115 gr Remington Golden Saber bullets ahead of Unique powder. Don't remember weight but they were at about 1000 fps.


----------



## Harbormaster (May 26, 2000)

Hornady Critical Defense or Barnes Tac-XP


----------



## calphil (Jan 17, 2011)

Wife has 124gr hydra shocks in her XD ... I know different caliber but after what the devastation I saw what a 230gr 45 hydra shock did to about a 225lb pigs head I was a believer....

Also have heard good about Cor-Bon


----------



## SURF Buster (Feb 17, 2008)

With me, anything that goes bang, will do the trick.


----------



## muney pit (Mar 24, 2014)

Harbormaster said:


> Hornady Critical Defense or Barnes Tac-XP


+1

Hornady has done tons of research and has a great product for most calibers now imho.


----------



## CoastalOutfitters (Aug 20, 2004)

another vote for hydrashocks, the full power, not low recoil.

Hornady makes great ammo too, 2nd choice

speer gold dot might be in there too


make sure the stuff feeds well in your auto, shoot some rapid fire, not all do well.


----------



## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Something that you can hit something with. Its not about ammo its about shot placement


----------



## muney pit (Mar 24, 2014)

CHARLIE said:


> Something that you can hit something with. Its not about ammo its about shot placement


? :/ Man, i havent heard something that silly in awhile. While proper shot placement is critical, the terminal ballistics of the ammo is just as important. In your way of thinking a fmj round to the chest is just as effective as a hydroshock? Not only that, but how about defeating different barriers such as glass, steel door panels, interior walls, & even clothing. One of the main reasons i like what Hornady has done after millons in research, is find a hollow point bullet that doesn't clog up with heavy clothing like open tip hollow points do (ie a hydroshock). So to say its not about ammo is misinformation that younger , & unexperienced shooters may take to heart and does not need to be said


----------



## tec (Jul 20, 2007)

Many carry guns have 3" barrels and Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel ammo is specifically made for that. Good luck finding it though.


----------



## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Sorry muney pit I must disagree with you. You can tell the younger shooters that if you shoot some "special" ammo that you can stop anything. I wont do that. If he or she caint hit with it it does no good. Learn to shoot then pick some "special" ammo. ?:/ Man


----------



## Jungle_Jim (Nov 16, 2007)

I use Speer Gold Dot 124 +P. Avoid gimmick rounds like R.I.P etc. The bottom line is use any round that reliably works in your gun and meets the FBI penetration test requirements. 

Speer Gold Dot
Federal Hydra Shok
Hornaday Critical defense or Duty
Corbon
etc....

I use the 124 grain because the 115 seems to have trouble meeting the penetration test due to not enough mass and the 147 while a great round sometimes will not meet the requirement out of a smaller (shorter bbl) carry gun because of low velocity. (147s are awesome in carbines!)
There is no one perfect round or style of ammo. 

Jim


----------



## deckh (Jul 23, 2010)

I'm with Charlie. You can't incapacitate what you can't hit. I'm certainly not an expert. I was only a firearms/police instructor almost 20 yrs. in the major federal law enforcement agency. Muney is also correct but most of what he writes, in my opinion, is related to law enforcement situations. Bullets have various expansion characteristics and obviously FMJ's don't upset much if at all.
Most folks with a CHL are not going to be shooting through doors, glass, dry wall, metal, etc. Practice, practice, practice. Enough. PS: Don't forget the marketing aspect of ammunition manufacturers. The zombie ammo is really effective on zombies!


----------



## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

deckh

Thaks for the comments. As you know some folks still believe like in the old cowboy movies a hit anywhere is going to knock somebody down. It doesent work that way. For a so called knockdown it takes a hit to the head, neck, backbone and that isnt always for sure. Certainly the ammo for most all pistols has greatly improved over ball. But if you caint hit with it what's the use.


----------



## Lezz Go (Jun 27, 2006)

I have the DRT Dynamic Research Technology 9mm ammo JHP on sale for $13.50/box of 20.


----------



## Texas T (May 21, 2004)

The reason many LEO's gave away their 9mm was they found that particularly winter months or in cases where the perp was wearing thick clothing the hollow points plugged and did not expand. In those cases little transfer of energy to the tissue, since they were effectively hit with a FMJ.


----------



## Ernest (May 21, 2004)

Black Talons evolved into the Winchester SXT series. 

Gold dots and Hydro shock are perhaps more modern technology and perhaps offer marginally increased performance relative to SXT's. 

I'd shoot whatever round among the premium "self defense" type rounds that performs best in your weapon - feeding and accuracy.


----------



## Jungle_Jim (Nov 16, 2007)

Texas T said:


> The reason many LEO's gave away their 9mm was they found that particularly winter months or in cases where the perp was wearing thick clothing the hollow points plugged and did not expand. In those cases little transfer of energy to the tissue, since they were effectively hit with a FMJ.


There is almost nothing factual about this statement.


----------



## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

J JIm

I have a "hunch" he may have first hand knowledge of his statement. Not real sure but maybe.


----------



## Texas T (May 21, 2004)

Thanks Charlie, but some already know it all, lol. One learns things in a two week school with DPS instructors, lol.


----------



## scwine (Sep 7, 2006)

Double Tap 9mm +P, 124 gr., Gold Dot JHP.






Look at that expansion and get back with me.


----------



## jamisjockey (Jul 30, 2009)

Federal Hydrashok.

Of course, the truest answer starts with whatever functions best in your chosen firearm. Some guns don't like HP ammo, so testing it is imperative.


----------



## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Sure does good shooting in gallon jugs and water barrel.


----------



## Jungle_Jim (Nov 16, 2007)

Texas T said:


> Thanks Charlie, but some already know it all, lol. One learns things in a two week school with DPS instructors, lol.


I got my TECLEOSE firearms instructor certification in 1996. I have attended over 50 high level classes. I am a former Marine and combat vet. 
I have some first hand knowledge as well.

The FBI standard includes 4 layers of denim. The reason that police left 9mm was the erroneous belief that some other caliber was an answer to the problem of pistols being weak. (the FBI went with 10mm) after the S&W 1006 frames began to break with relatively few rounds the .40 S&W was created.

At the time that Texas T is referring to all hollow points had the same issue, not just 9mm. I meant no disrespect but he aint the only one around here with experience and I have been a high level instructor for 18 years.

Jim


----------



## scwine (Sep 7, 2006)

Jungle_Jim said:


> I got my TECLEOSE firearms instructor certification in 1996. I have attended over 50 high level classes. I am a former Marine and combat vet.
> I have some first hand knowledge as well.
> 
> The FBI standard includes 4 layers of denim. The reason that police left 9mm was the erroneous belief that some other caliber was an answer to the problem of pistols being weak. (the FBI went with 10mm) after the S&W 1006 frames began to break with relatively few rounds the .40 S&W was created.
> ...


and if the round doesn't hit, what good is it? I had a 10mm and couldn't the broad side of barn...that would not do me so well.


----------



## Jungle_Jim (Nov 16, 2007)

scwine said:


> and if the round doesn't hit, what good is it? I had a 10mm and couldn't the broad side of barn...that would not do me so well.


I never disagreed with that statement. Shot placement first. A bullet with good terminal ballistics second.

Training is the most important thing. Not just shooting paper on a square range either.


----------



## Texas T (May 21, 2004)

If you look at the actually documented data from the streets the 9mm +P+ must be used to almost equal the one shot stopping ability of the 40 or 45. Yes I agree the ammo has gotten somewhat better but the 9mm still is not as effective, kinda like the old days when LEO carried 38 Spl and only dreamed of being allowed to carry a 357.


----------



## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Well as I have said before that is why there are Fords and Chevys eveyone has an opinion. Me 40 years Law enforcement, Capt Pistol team, Camp Perry Master, and 45 Auto all the way. Biggest thing that turned me against the 9mm was back in the day before ammo was improved ball was all that was available. The penetration through walls, cars, etc with the 9mm was a drawback. You mite accidentally shoot someone down the block after shooting through 3 walls. In combat that is no issue in police work it's a problem. Good luck all.


----------



## Jungle_Jim (Nov 16, 2007)

Texas T. I believe your data is outdated. Science has proven that stopping power is a myth in handguns. The way people die from pistol shots is blood loss or central nervous system disruption. One shot stops happen at the same rate among all common pistol calibers. Most departments are leaving the .40 S&W and going back to 9mm because they get no gain in performance, example 1 shot stops but they do get a significant increase in recoil. There is no pistol round that is significantly a better killer than another. Here is a really good podcast on the subject:
http://ballisticradio.com/2014/04/08/podcast-season-2-ballistic-radio-episode-56-april-6th-2014/

http://ballisticradio.com/2013/05/14/podcast-ballistic-radio-episode-10-may-12-2013/


----------



## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

hey J J

I am sure you have read why the old .455 Webly came about. LOL


----------



## SmithEC (Jul 31, 2009)

As the OP says, the choices do seem endless. You can research the question for two weeks and come up with the final answer. Research for ten more minutes and come up with the new final answer.

The only real recommendation I can make is that you come up with your final answer and then quit obsessing over it.

I like the science of the Barnes TAC-XP bullet, so that's what I do.

9mm - DoubleTap 115gr TAC-XP
10mm - DoubleTap 125gr TAC-XP

Both of those probably travel a couple 100 fps slower than advertised, but that's fine.

123gr Federal Fusion out of an AK.

55gr V-Max out of an AR. Most folks wouldn't make that choice, but that's fine.

In any case, hopefully you can make your decision, and then just let it go.

.


----------



## Jungle_Jim (Nov 16, 2007)

From wikipedia: "
*One-shot stop[edit]*

This hypothesis, promoted by Evan P. Marshall, is based on statistical analysis of actual shooting incidents from various reporting sources (typically police agencies). It is intended to be used as a unit of measurement and not as a tactical philosophy, as mistakenly believed by some. It considers the history of shooting incidents for a given factory ammunition load, and compiles the percentage of "one-shot-stops" achieved with each specific ammunition load. That percentage is then intended to be used with other information to help predict the effectiveness of that load getting a "one-shot-stop." For example, if an ammunition load is used in 10 torso shootings, incapacitating all but two with one shot, the "one-shot-stop" percentage for the total sample would be 80%.
Some[_who?_] argue that this hypothesis ignores any inherent selection bias. For example, high-velocity 9 mm hollow point rounds appear to have the highest percentage of one-shot stops.[_citation needed_] Rather than identifying this as an inherent property of the firearm/bullet combination, the situations where these have occurred need to be considered. The 9 mm has been the predominantly used caliber of many police departments, so many of these one-shot-stops were probably made by well-trained police officers, where accurate placement would be a contributory factor. However, Marshall's database of "one-shot-stops" does include shootings from law enforcement agencies, private citizens, and criminals alike.
Critics of this theory point out that bullet placement is a very significant factor, but is only generally used in such one-shot-stop calculations, covering shots to the torso"


----------



## Jungle_Jim (Nov 16, 2007)

CHARLIE said:


> hey J J
> 
> I am sure you have read why the old .455 Webly came about. LOL


 Yes Charlie I have. It replaced an even larger caliber the .476 Enfield. The key to that round being successful was not its size but the bullet construction. It functioned just like a hollow point. The hollow point design was later abandoned after it was determined to violate the Hague convention. After the bullet was abandoned it lost its effectiveness and was eventually replaced.


----------



## Jungle_Jim (Nov 16, 2007)

Here is another interesting read if you are interested:
http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/alternate-look-handgun-stopping-power


----------



## Jungle_Jim (Nov 16, 2007)

And one more. I have found these to be good information and they dispell a lot of myths:
http://www.policemag.com/channel/we...opping-power-myths-legends-and-realities.aspx


----------



## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

J J

1st I didnt have a clue that the .455 webly was a H P. never would have thought that. I am assuming you are correct but didnt check. Regarding stopping power of pistols I read a test years ago that covered every round from 22 up to shotgun. A dummy was created with jel that would duplicate a human and it was placed on a roller (dolly like thing) that would roll with very little force. The thing was shot with every round (pistol) from 22 to 44 mag. Nothing moved the dummy except 00 buck. So nuff said about stopping power or knockdown. Most all myth. I have seen and read the reports done that you posted and they are probably most good info. And I go back to my original statement (that I was so rudly chastised ) LOL If you caint hit it forget it.

Never seen any .455 Webley HP ammo although plenty scarce now days. Mostly 45 acp in clips.

What did they replace the .455 Webley with ?


----------



## Jack's Pocket (Jul 16, 2014)

Charlie you are dead on.
If you can't hit it you can't stop it. 
Model 97 with a custom made 20 inch mod barrel
by the bed.
Every pistol in this house from 22 to 45 ACP is on a 1911 frame. If something goes bump in the night everything is setup the same.
The only 911 here is the Mrs. and I we live so far back in the woods we have to go towards town to go hunting.


----------



## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Jack's Pocket

I love that old saying regarding having to go towards town to hunt. Kinda like so ugly had to tie a pork chop bone around your neck to get the dogs to play with you. LOL. PS

love those 97's. Dad had a 16 Ga.


----------



## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

J J

My memory says the .455 replaced the 38 special not a 476 Enfield. My bad you are correct.


----------



## Quackerbox (Feb 6, 2006)

As someone who sees dead people for a living I venture to say Ive seen my share of shot people. Both dead and alive. Ive seen them dead from a .380 over 100 feet away that bounced off the ground and alive from .45 acp at less than 10 feet. In the last few scenes the deadliest and most effective round Ive see has been a power ball corbon and the crappiest round Ive seen is what a lot of you guys posted.......federal hydroshock. Also seen a female with a 44 magnum round to the head and live.

Two different scenes grown men were shot with the Hydrashock, BOTH .45 acp, one guy 4/5 times (cant remember exact amount of hits) one guy 3. Granted neither of the guys had what one would call 'fatal' wound they both lived. However the _shocking_ thing to me was both had bullets that hit them near the hip pocket which after having the hollow point area fill with denim and ski mask fibers failed to even break the skin. Both rounds were recovered in their clothing.

Theres been plenty of folks die from ball ammo when placed in the right place as well. Bottom line you cant take many rounds to the chest cavity and live without having to poo in a bag or just plain die.

Thats real live stuff, not ballistic gel, water jugs or watermelons.

That said I carry corbon power ball in my off duty 9, corbon or hornady in duty 40 and golden saber in my 380 when I carry it.


----------



## Jungle_Jim (Nov 16, 2007)

Charlie you are 100% correct on shot placement being vital to success. I would add that shot volume is also vital. Shoot until they stop. I stopped training with double taps years ago because I realized that I had trained myself to shoot twice and check the target. I now shoot a varied amount of shots at targets. 

The .455 has a weird history it was temporarily replaced by the Webley 38/200 and then they went back to .455. It was eventually replaced by the Browning Hi-Power in 1963.


----------



## Jungle_Jim (Nov 16, 2007)

Quackerbox said:


> As someone who sees dead people for a living I venture to say Ive seen my share of shot people. Both dead and alive. Ive seen them dead from a .380 over 100 feet away that bounced off the ground and alive from .45 acp at less than 10 feet. In the last few scenes the deadliest and most effective round Ive see has been a power ball corbon and the crappiest round Ive seen is what a lot of you guys posted.......federal hydroshock. Also seen a female with a 44 magnum round to the head and live
> 
> Two different scenes grown men were shot with the Hydrashock, BOTH .45 acp, one guy 4/5 times (cant remember exact amount of hits) one guy 3. Granted neither of the guys had what one would call 'fatal' wound they both lived. However the _shocking_ thing to me was both had bullets that hit them near the hip pocket which after having the hollow point area fill with denim and ski mask fibers failed to even break the skin. Both rounds were recovered in their clothing.
> 
> ...


 This is good info. It's what I have been trying to say. There is no perfect awesome caliber. 9mm,40,45,357....they all perform about the same against living human targets. I couldn't care less about gel tests. From that conclusion I came to the following decision. I carry a 9mm with 16 shots. It gives me the ability to keep shooting after a lot of guys run out of ammo. In gunfights people miss, a lot. If I have more shots it gives me a better chance to win against a guy with fewer shots.

Jim


----------



## Quackerbox (Feb 6, 2006)

Another one to mention. I remember a shooting where the bad guy was shot in the drivers seat of an 80s model station wagon. Back when the cars had metal seat backs. One bullet which was fired from the outside of the car left the barrel, traveled into the car, through a craftsman tool box lid, the back passenger seat and into the front seat then into the driver. Something like 17 rounds were fired and the bad guy died.

The round was a 9mm +P


----------



## Jack's Pocket (Jul 16, 2014)

All I carry is a 1911 45 acp.
A lot is about comfort and training.
I would be more scared of an expert with a
single shot 22 than an idiot with a double stack 
shooting gangsta style.
As far as bullets go I prefer 200 grain lead with a BHN
10.


----------



## tec (Jul 20, 2007)

I am amazed at all the comments about having to actually hit something for a bullet to do any good. Really?


----------



## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

tec

Scary aint it but true. LOL 

J J 
I was never a believer in the double tap. Always a somewhat aimed shot not just the first one but every one.


----------



## Quackerbox (Feb 6, 2006)

tec said:


> I am amazed at all the comments about having to actually hit something for a bullet to do any good. Really?


??

Warning shot across the bow or what?


----------



## Tortuga (May 21, 2004)

CHARLIE said:


> J J
> .
> 
> Never seen any .455 Webley HP ammo although plenty scarce now days. Mostly 45 acp in clips.


Hey Mayor...if you want to see some .455 ammo..join Walkin' Jack at the range sometime. Years back I gave him my .455 Mark I Webley for his gun collection and a few boxes of shells (dated 1941 as I recall). He went thru one box of 12...then retired the old babe to his collection. Webley changed the .455 to .38 sometime after WW I as I recall. Far as stopping power...that .455 cartridge is a big as my thumb. I believe it would stop most anything IF YOU HIT IT...LOL

pix below of my old Mark I .455 (now WJ's)


----------



## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Tuga

Yes sir I knew about your old .455 that ended up with Jack. Real history making piece. The gun Tuga not Jack LOL


----------



## muney pit (Mar 24, 2014)

Quackerbox said:


> ??
> 
> Warning shot across the bow or what?


Havent you been reading the thread QB. This is a make believe world in here where things like stress and reaction time go out the window with things like hydrostatic shock and bullet weight retention. All you need a 22 as long as you can hit fly with it at 50 yards in the back yard sipping on ice tea. Combat accuracy means nothing here.


----------



## Quackerbox (Feb 6, 2006)

muney pit said:


> Havent you been reading the thread QB. This is a make believe world in here where things like stress and reaction time go out the window with things like hydrostatic shock and bullet weight retention. All you need a 22 as long as you can hit fly with it at 50 yards in the back yard sipping on ice tea. Combat accuracy means nothing here.


Guess I stand corrected then. I'll start carrying my Gama ray loaded with 290 grain my gawds


----------



## tec (Jul 20, 2007)

Did someone say it doesn't matter if you hit your target as long as you shoot at it with a large caliber?


----------



## Jungle_Jim (Nov 16, 2007)

muney pit said:


> Havent you been reading the thread QB. This is a make believe world in here where things like stress and reaction time go out the window with things like hydrostatic shock and bullet weight retention. All you need a 22 as long as you can hit fly with it at 50 yards in the back yard sipping on ice tea. Combat accuracy means nothing here.


I don't think anyone said anything like that. You should admit that shot placement is vital in a defensive shooting. Stress and reaction time are real issues and training helps that, not a bigger caliber. I'm pretty sure that hydrostatic shock is almost non existent in pistol rounds. Are you talking about temporary wound cavity/channel?

Jim


----------



## Tortuga (May 21, 2004)

tec said:


> Did someone say it doesn't matter if you hit your target as long as you shoot at it with a large caliber?


Dunno about you, tec..but if someone shoots at me with a large caliber (or ANY caliber,for that matter) gun...and MISSED...then I would stop what I was doing and take off like a scalded dog...so I guess in that sense..YES...you would get the desired results that 'mattered'....:biggrin:


----------



## Quackerbox (Feb 6, 2006)

tec said:


> Did someone say it doesn't matter if you hit your target as long as you shoot at it with a large caliber?


I'm not really sure what post 48 was supposed to mean


----------



## cajunautoxer (Aug 10, 2011)

I'm down to 5 cases of Winchester Ranger 127 grain +p+ good stuff there


----------

