# Republican? Democrat? Other?



## Fish&Chips

Which political party should Christians support and why?


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## banpouchi

What you should do is keep religion out of politics. I am not saying someone should not know what the politicians religion is as it does lend credence to one being, however if one rules by religion, look no further than the middle east for government controlled by religion!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## TrueblueTexican

*Jesus held up a Roman Coin*

and asked his disciples " Who's image do you see on this coin? Give unto Caesar that which is Caesars and unto God that which is Gods -

Matters not what political party you belong or affiliate with, God does not care, what matters is following Jesus as your LEADER - not political party, denomination, or country club --

That said when you dig deep enough into partisan politics all the major US political parties are rotten to the core --

Whats best for America has long ago disappeared

Americas judgement from God is just --


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## atcfisherman

I'm not a democrat nor a republican. I'm a Christian who feels we should allow God to convict us each time we vote. Our Christian values should be the foundation to who we are and how we vote. Wheather that aligns with a certain party should not be a concern.


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## Fish&Chips

Well said TrueblueTexican & atcfisherman. 

We have too many Christians who give their allegiance to a rotten political party and they will defend them with a passion.


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## Fish&Chips

banpouchi said:


> What you should do is keep religion out of politics. I am not saying someone should not know what the politicians religion is as it does lend credence to one being, however if one rules by religion, look no further than the middle east for government controlled by religion!!!!!!!!!!!!


When you live by faith, every decision you make is determined by your faith.

As far as comparing the Middle East's religion of peace to Christianity, they are totally different.


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## banpouchi

When you live by faith, every decision you make is determined by your faith. 

I agree with above statement!!

As far as comparing the Middle East's religion of peace to Christianity, they are totally different.

I hate to burst your bubble, however a lot of very nasty things are done for the Christian religion.

1. Jim Jones
2. Waco
3. Ok. bombing
4. Crusades

I know these are not being done by true christians!!!!

Also I was comparing governments that are ruled by religion, not getting into the peacefulness of one religion or another.

The only religion I know of that has not started a war over is Buddhist. They have defended it but not gone to war over it. I could be wrong but I am sure the brain trust here will set me straight

Have fun!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## The Last Mango

God first
Country second


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## DA REEL DADDY

The Last Mango said:


> God first
> Country second


God and Country.


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## stdreb27

I don't think there is any question about who not to support... It's a pretty active vocal attack on Christians...


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## JCIMS

Liberalism is a disease... We just saw last year the democrats deny God three times while in session.


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## Fish&Chips

*I agree with Chuck Baldwin's litmus test below:*

Now, that clichÃ©, the lesser of two evils, means different things to different people. So, for sake of clarity, let me tell you what it means to me. I have a six-point litmus test. I donâ€™t care whether the candidate is male or female, black or white, Democrat of Republican, conservative or liberal, Christian or pagan, if he or she violates fidelity to one of more of these principles, I will not vote for him or her; I donâ€™t care how â€œevilâ€ the opponent might be.

*Life*

I will not vote for someone who would support or facilitate the legalization of abortion--a Republican candidacy notwithstanding. If neither major party candidate is pro-life, I will vote for someone else in the race that is, or I will leave my ballot blank on that race. I have done that numerous times. I will not vote for anyone who supports the killing of innocent unborn babies. Period!

*Marriage
*
I will not vote for a candidate (from any political party) who would support the attempt to redefine marriage as being between anyone except between a man and a woman. Marriage is a divine institution and our Creator has already defined it. Government didnâ€™t invent marriage; and government cannot re-invent it. To tell you the truth, I donâ€™t think government has any business being involved in marriage to any degree.

Mind you, Iâ€™m not talking about civil unions. That is another matter altogether. I have my opinions on that subject, but that issue does not rise to the level of marriage. And I most certainly am not talking about granting power to the government to invade peopleâ€™s privacy. I donâ€™t want government in the bedroom, living room, kitchen, or closet.

*The Warfare State*

Ever since World War II, and the advent of the United Nations, Americaâ€™s foreign policy has been the antithesis of the principles of liberty and independence. Foreign interventionism, nation-building, and wars of aggression are the enemies of freedom. The vision of Americaâ€™s founders was one of free trade and good will with all and foreign entanglements with none. Modern American leaders have completely inverted that concept. Now, it is foreign entanglements with all and free trade (the so-called â€œfree tradeâ€ agreements in modern times are not free trade at all but government-manipulated trade) and good will with none.

The so-called â€œwar on terrorâ€ (along with the â€œwar on drugsâ€) is the cornerstone of all of the infringements upon the liberties of the American people at home and the excuse given to justify all sorts of military aggression abroad. The â€œwar on terrorâ€ is actually a war on the liberties of the American citizenry. The â€œwar on terrorâ€ has made us less free and less safe. And if it continues unabated, it will result in the enslavement of the American people.

Therefore, I will not vote for any candidate for public office, regardless of political party, that does not understand the evilness of the Warfare State and that will not aggressively oppose it. This includes those who support sending US military forces around the globe to fight undeclared, unprovoked wars, those who support the use of drones for the purpose of military assassination, and those who support interfering in the internal affairs of foreign countries without due process as prescribed by the US Constitution.

*The Police State*

The burgeoning police state currently being built in this country is the result of the Warfare State. Legislation that authorized such things as the Patriot Act, the Military Commissions Act, the NDAA, the DHS, USNORTHCOM, etc., tramples the Bill of Rights into the ground. For all intents and purposes, the Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, Seventh, and Tenth amendments to the Constitution have been thoroughly and absolutely shredded by every administration and congress of the Twenty First century.

I absolutely refuse to vote for any candidate of any political party that would facilitate the burgeoning police state. That would be like asking me to vote for the lesser evil of, say, Adolf Hitler and Joseph Stalin, or like asking me to choose between Nero and Caligula. No thanks.

*The New World Order*

Now, use this term and all kinds of ideas pop into peopleâ€™s minds. To some, it means a â€œJewish conspiracy.â€ To others, it means a â€œCatholic conspiracy.â€ To still others it means a â€œMasonic conspiracy.â€ Ad infinitum.

However, to me it simply means there are elitists within government, business, religion, private groups, etc., (from virtually any and every brand or type) who truly desire to strip countries (especially the United States) of their independence and sovereignty. This is nothing new. Its roots go back to the Tower of Babel.

There have always been rich and powerful individuals who have attempted to accrue riches and power unto themselves. And the best way to accomplish this is to erase national borders. It is always about money. Always. Sovereign nations are an encumbrance to a global anything, but especially to a global financial market. Trade restrictions, imposts, tariffs, regulations, etc., are anathema to global merchants. Therefore, in order to erect a global economy or global financial market, one must create some sort of global government to control it. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the New World Order.

I believe the United Nations is a tool of globalists to pave the way for global government. I believe certain internationalist organizations were created to facilitate global government. Some of these organizations probably include the Council on Foreign Relations, the Trilateral Commission, the Bilderberg Group, etc.

But from a political perspective, I refuse to vote for any candidate for public office, regardless of political party, that would support any legislation that would cede even the slightest bit of American sovereignty to any supranational or international body. Most of the so-called â€œfree tradeâ€ deals fall into this category. The creation of any facsimile of a European or North American Union or North American Community (call it what you will) falls into this category; asking US armed forces to serve under, or at the behest of, the United Nations falls into this category; and legislation that would facilitate illegal immigration certainly falls into this category.

*Gun Control*

This is a no compromise, no negotiation-issue with me. I absolutely will not vote for any candidate, regardless of political party, that supports any additional gun control. We already have too many egregiously enslavish gun control laws on the books. If anything, our lawmakers should be expunging gun control laws, not adding new ones.

Friends, have you ever noticed the wording of the Second Amendment carefully? The Second Amendment is the only part of the Constitution that is said to be â€œnecessary.â€ The only thing, the ONLY thing, that the Constitution says is â€œnecessaryâ€ is the right of the people to keep and bear arms. It doesnâ€™t say that the Supreme Court is necessary, or that the US Congress is necessary, or that even the President is necessary. It says that the right of citizens to keep and bear arms is necessary. (A big word of thanks to my good friend, Dr. Ed Vieira, for recently pointing this out to me.)

I donâ€™t care if a candidate for public office is a Democrat, Republican, or Whig, if he or she supports or facilitates in any way any further gun control, I absolutely and positively will not vote for them--regardless of how more â€œevilâ€ their political opponent might be.

There you have it. These are the six criteria I use when I say I will not vote for the lesser of two evils. I donâ€™t expect a candidate for public office to be perfect; I donâ€™t expect to agree with them on every issue; I donâ€™t expect them to be of my religious persuasion. I can differ with them on a wide array of issues. But these six issues are not negotiable. On these issues, there is no lesser of two evils. Transgression of any one of these issues means I will not vote for them--party affiliation notwithstanding. I concur with the words of John Quincy Adams, â€œAlways vote for principle, though you may vote alone, and you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost.â€ And these are the six principles upon which I will either vote or not vote with the â€œsweetest reflection.â€

Dear reader, I sincerely hope that you are not one of these folks who blindly support a political party with no regard to position or principle. A man or woman who has no principles they will not compromise has no principles at all. And if we need anything in the voting booth today, it is fidelity to principle--especially the principles of liberty upon which our freedoms rest.

By Chuck Baldwin

http://chuckbaldwinlive.com/Articles/tabid/109/ID/1062/The-Lesser-Evils-I-Will-Not-Vote-For.aspx


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## DA REEL DADDY

This about sums it up with the way I feel...


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## RedFly

Jesus was wise to stay out of politics. In my opinion, anyone trying to follow Jesus would be much more interested in peace than war.

Old Testament:
God gave His people the law to set clear boundaries to keep them from hurting themselves unknowingly. Much like a parent tells their children to look before crossing the street, and not to play with fire.

Then Jesus came. He fulfilled the Old Testament, and brought in the New Testament: The Holy Spirit

Now that Christians have the Holy Spirit inside them to guide them through conscience, the Old Testament Law is no longer as important as it used to be (John 14:16-18). If we read the Bible and pray daily, we will clearly and undoubtedly hear God's voice, the Holy Spirit (described at the Spirit of Jesus) direct us on how to live a life that will fill us with the most love and joy possible, and the least amount of self-inflicted pain. The pain that we create often affects others around us, so the more we sin the more others suffer as well. If everyone was saved and followed the Holy Spirit's advice all the time, we would literally need no laws or wars at all. But Satan's rule of this world promotes an ever increasing sin until Jesus comes back to rule for 1000 years... humans will have a perfect comparison of life on earth: satan's way and God's way.

That being said God gives us a choice and allows us to decide what we want to do. Without true free will, we would not really be allowed to choose to freely love Him which is to put His way first in our lives every day (Acts 17:11). There are clear consequences for our actions, either love is increased or hate is increased. God is love and everything good, and choosing life without Him will always decrease the love and good things in our lives. It is interesting to see how Jesus reacts when things were getting hairy: Luke 22:31-38

Which political party most closely aligns with this thinking? 

The Democrats vote to increase taxes to build a bigger Government that can then control and distribute wealth. This is reducing your freedom to decide where your taxed money goes, removes you from being the giver of help directly, and does not represent free choice very well. It does impose the agenda of the Government quite well, which could be good or bad depending on how much you trust the select few at the political top deciding where 1/3 of your money goes...

The Republicans vote to increase laws that restrict people from doing perceived harm to themselves. This also doesn't represent God's example very well in that those laws attempt to control free will, thereby fueling the rebellious worldly (satanic) nature in all of us to break laws and be punished, jailed, and even be put to death. Where is Jesus' teaching of forgiveness and free will here? There is a balance to the teachings of Christ; where actions are taken to protect oneself from other's sin. Unfortunately many Republicans would align more closely with the Pharisee's that Jesus in the Bible... 2 Corinthians 13:5

The party that most closely stays out of "politics" and mirrors giving people true freedom to choose what they can do and suffer the consequences themselves either positive or negative is: the Libertarian party.

This is just one sinner's view... I encourage everyone who reads this to pray and read the Bible to come up with their own conclusions.


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## TrueblueTexican

*It goes back to what SHOULD be important*

Recent pols would indicate that America has become largely a SECULAR society.

Thus CHRISTIANS speaking out become targets - not to say we should not, but rather to be prepared for the WAR, and pick battles wisely.

I am a registered CONSERVATIVE, I will not give allegiance to a POLITICAL party, and as our WISE GOD LED FOUNDERS intended, no allegiance to state sanctioned RELIGION.

All the recent battles over NATIVITY scenes, Ten Commandment displays, or anything of a Quasi Christian nature on public property are poor battles.

OK step in here all puffed up - IF CHRISTIANS were doing as Jesus expected us to do there would be NO QUESTION.

Whats public property? It belongs to Caesar (ergo all taxpayers) Christians in the last days of humanity are going to be persecuted -- we should remain Apolitical, but be be willing to state what we believe in when asked - instead due to THREATS to Christians in the last few years we have become POLITICAL, Polarizing, and think we have a nuclear mandate to beat others over the head with a book so we can pad our expense report in Heaven.

FILTHY RAGS to our Creator !!!!

Jesus was very clear - the MEEK shall inherit the earth

That agnostic/atheist, Christian hater sitting in that bar stool or in that brothel needs JESUS - not an AMERICAN Political Party -

Test all things against the Beatitudes of Christ - found in Matthew 5, then come back and tell me which "Party" to support as a "Christian"


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## TrueblueTexican

*Do you PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE?*

As such swearing an oath to the Republic?

â€œAgain, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago, â€˜Do not break your oath, but fulfill to the Lord the vows you have made.â€™ But I tell you, do not swear an oath at all: either by heaven, for it is Godâ€™s throne; or by the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King. And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black. All you need to say is simply â€˜Yesâ€™ or â€˜Noâ€™; anything beyond this comes from the evil one

Do you READ and Understand Gods instruction as Followers of Christ?

Far too much WRONG with a two party system of polarization - would that we have Solomon for King for a while.


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## WillieT

The counsel that Jesus gave to his followers was to stay out of politics. This is very clear at John 17:15,16 15â€¯â€œI request you, not to take them out of the world, but to watch over them because of the wicked one. 16â€¯They are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world.

At Matthew 4:8-11, Satan offered Jesus all the kingdoms of the world, but Jesus refused them. 8â€¯Again the Devil took him along to an unusually high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory, 9â€¯and he said to him: â€œAll these things I will give you if you fall down and do an act of worship to me.â€ 10â€¯Then Jesus said to him: â€œGo away, Satan! For it is written, â€˜It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.â€™â€ 11â€¯Then the Devil left him, and, look! angels came and began to minister to him.


Also look at John 6:10-15. The people wanted to make him king, but what did Jesus do. 
10â€¯Jesus said: â€œHAVE the men recline as at meal.â€ Now there was a lot of grass in the place. Therefore the men reclined, about five thousand in number. 11â€¯So Jesus took the loaves and, after giving thanks, he distributed them to those reclining, likewise also as much of the small fishes as they wanted. 12â€¯But when they had their fill he said to his disciples: â€œGather together the fragments that remain over, so that nothing is wasted.â€ 13â€¯Therefore they gathered them together, and they filled twelve baskets with fragments from the five barley loaves, which were left over by those who had eaten.
14â€¯Hence when the men saw the signs he performed, they began to say: â€œThis is for a certainty the prophet that was to come into the world.â€ 15â€¯Therefore Jesus, knowing they were about to come and seize him to make him king, withdrew again into the mountain all alone.

Jesus would have nothing to do with politics and warned his disciples about being no part of the world.

Jesus also made it very clear, because of their stand, they would be hated. This is shown at John 15:19 19â€¯If YOU were part of the world, the world would be fond of what is its own. Now because YOU are no part of the world, but I have chosen YOU out of the world, on this account the world hates YOU, and again at John 17:14 14 â€¯I have given your word to them, but the world has hated them, because they are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world.


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## atcfisherman

13 "I am coming to you now,1 but I say these things while I am still in the world, so that they may have the full measure of my joy2 within them. 14 I have given them your word and the world has hated them,3 for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world.4 15 My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one.5 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of it.6 17 Sanctifya them by the truth; your word is truth.7 18 As you sent me into the world,8 I have sent them into the world.9 
John 17:13-18, Jesus is speaking about his followers being hated by the world just like He was hated by the world and that they are "not of this world." It says nothing about politics here.

At Matthew 4:8-11, Satan offered Jesus all the kingdoms of the world, but Jesus refused them. 8â€¯Again the Devil took him along to an unusually high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory, 9â€¯and he said to him: â€œAll these things I will give you if you fall down and do an act of worship to me.â€ 10â€¯Then Jesus said to him: â€œGo away, Satan! For it is written, â€˜It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.â€™â€ 11â€¯Then the Devil left him, and, look! angels came and began to minister to him.
Matthew 4:8-11 says nothing about us being involved in poltics. 

Also look at John 6:10-15. The people wanted to make him king, but what did Jesus do. 
10â€¯Jesus said: â€œHAVE the men recline as at meal.â€ Now there was a lot of grass in the place. Therefore the men reclined, about five thousand in number. 11â€¯So Jesus took the loaves and, after giving thanks, he distributed them to those reclining, likewise also as much of the small fishes as they wanted. 12â€¯But when they had their fill he said to his disciples: â€œGather together the fragments that remain over, so that nothing is wasted.â€ 13â€¯Therefore they gathered them together, and they filled twelve baskets with fragments from the five barley loaves, which were left over by those who had eaten.
14â€¯Hence when the men saw the signs he performed, they began to say: â€œThis is for a certainty the prophet that was to come into the world.â€ 15â€¯Therefore Jesus, knowing they were about to come and seize him to make him king, withdrew again into the mountain all alone.
Again, where does it say not to be involved in politics.

Jesus would have nothing to do with politics and warned his disciples about being no part of the world.
If one fells so compelled not to be involved in politics, that should be a personal desicion. But these scriptures clearly do not say anything about not being involved in politics. As for me, if God's Holy Spirit leads me to be active and vote, I do. And there have been other times where God has led me to not vote.


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## WillieT

atcfisherman said:


> 13 "I am coming to you now,1 but I say these things while I am still in the world, so that they may have the full measure of my joy2 within them. 14 I have given them your word and the world has hated them,3 for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world.4 15 My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one.5 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of it.6 17 Sanctifya them by the truth; your word is truth.7 18 As you sent me into the world,8 I have sent them into the world.9
> John 17:13-18, Jesus is speaking about his followers being hated by the world just like He was hated by the world and that they are "not of this world." It says nothing about politics here.
> 
> At Matthew 4:8-11, Satan offered Jesus all the kingdoms of the world, but Jesus refused them. 8â€¯Again the Devil took him along to an unusually high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory, 9â€¯and he said to him: â€œAll these things I will give you if you fall down and do an act of worship to me.â€ 10â€¯Then Jesus said to him: â€œGo away, Satan! For it is written, â€˜It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.â€™â€ 11â€¯Then the Devil left him, and, look! angels came and began to minister to him.
> Matthew 4:8-11 says nothing about us being involved in poltics.
> 
> Also look at John 6:10-15. The people wanted to make him king, but what did Jesus do.
> 10â€¯Jesus said: â€œHAVE the men recline as at meal.â€ Now there was a lot of grass in the place. Therefore the men reclined, about five thousand in number. 11â€¯So Jesus took the loaves and, after giving thanks, he distributed them to those reclining, likewise also as much of the small fishes as they wanted. 12â€¯But when they had their fill he said to his disciples: â€œGather together the fragments that remain over, so that nothing is wasted.â€ 13â€¯Therefore they gathered them together, and they filled twelve baskets with fragments from the five barley loaves, which were left over by those who had eaten.
> 14â€¯Hence when the men saw the signs he performed, they began to say: â€œThis is for a certainty the prophet that was to come into the world.â€ 15â€¯Therefore Jesus, knowing they were about to come and seize him to make him king, withdrew again into the mountain all alone.
> Again, where does it say not to be involved in politics.
> 
> Jesus would have nothing to do with politics and warned his disciples about being no part of the world.
> If one fells so compelled not to be involved in politics, that should be a personal desicion. But these scriptures clearly do not say anything about not being involved in politics. As for me, if God's Holy Spirit leads me to be active and vote, I do. And there have been other times where God has led me to not vote.


The scriptures explain themselves. It is a shame that many deny the real meaning. Jesus wanted nothing to do with the spirit of the world (political system). It is controlled by Satan.


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## DA REEL DADDY

Look guys.., OK I am going out on a limb here, but the bottom line is we ALL know there are certain Scriptures in OUR Good Book, on the way God wants us to handle ourselves and our affairs.

If a Government, whether Foreign or Domestic (though we are talking about OUR U.S. Government) was or is allowing certain affairs to be practiced that you do't agree with or is against your belief and if You don't exercises YOUR right as citizens to VOTE, to defuse an UNGODLY LAW OR ACT are YOU not acting in a way of a CHRISTIAN? Are you being represented properly?

Look, as an AMERICAN, the best weapon you have against something unfavorable in our Government is the power to VOTE.

If WE want our country to take a certain direction it is MINE and YOUR responsibility to find and motivate those within us to represent us with credibility and trust worthy ways within our own beliefs or continue to support those already in place.

If you don't think that and don't think our FAITH has nothing to do with politics or who WE elected to run our country, then we FAIL before we start.

A chicken in a hen house waiting to be devoured by the FOX because you did not STAND UP to what you know to be right and have learned.

Get real! We all say this and that regarding our Christianity and OUR AMERICAN WAYS, if we don't try to have our home, whether it be the roof over our heads or the security curtain of our country, follow our beloved beliefs, then what good are we doing for ourselves, family, and nation????

Some of us will sit here and argue to their BLUE in the face about how SCRIPTURE is read or interpreted, but sounds like they wont take a Christian stand for their Country.

Go Vote!!!!



atcfisherman said:


> 13 "I am coming to you now,1 but I say these things while I am still in the world, so that they may have the full measure of my joy2 within them. 14 I have given them your word and the world has hated them,3 for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world.4 15 My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one.5 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of it.6 17 Sanctifya them by the truth; your word is truth.7 18 As you sent me into the world,8 I have sent them into the world.9
> John 17:13-18, Jesus is speaking about his followers being hated by the world just like He was hated by the world and that they are "not of this world." It says nothing about politics here.
> 
> At Matthew 4:8-11, Satan offered Jesus all the kingdoms of the world, but Jesus refused them. 8â€¯Again the Devil took him along to an unusually high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory, 9â€¯and he said to him: â€œAll these things I will give you if you fall down and do an act of worship to me.â€ 10â€¯Then Jesus said to him: â€œGo away, Satan! For it is written, â€˜It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.â€™â€ 11â€¯Then the Devil left him, and, look! angels came and began to minister to him.
> Matthew 4:8-11 says nothing about us being involved in poltics.
> 
> Also look at John 6:10-15. The people wanted to make him king, but what did Jesus do.
> 10â€¯Jesus said: â€œHAVE the men recline as at meal.â€ Now there was a lot of grass in the place. Therefore the men reclined, about five thousand in number. 11â€¯So Jesus took the loaves and, after giving thanks, he distributed them to those reclining, likewise also as much of the small fishes as they wanted. 12â€¯But when they had their fill he said to his disciples: â€œGather together the fragments that remain over, so that nothing is wasted.â€ 13â€¯Therefore they gathered them together, and they filled twelve baskets with fragments from the five barley loaves, which were left over by those who had eaten.
> 14â€¯Hence when the men saw the signs he performed, they began to say: â€œThis is for a certainty the prophet that was to come into the world.â€ 15â€¯Therefore Jesus, knowing they were about to come and seize him to make him king, withdrew again into the mountain all alone.
> Again, where does it say not to be involved in politics.
> 
> Jesus would have nothing to do with politics and warned his disciples about being no part of the world.
> If one fells so compelled not to be involved in politics, that should be a personal desicion. But these scriptures clearly do not say anything about not being involved in politics. As for me, if God's Holy Spirit leads me to be active and vote, I do. And there have been other times where God has led me to not vote.


GREAT POST SIR!!!!


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## DA REEL DADDY

shaggydog said:


> The scriptures explain themselves. It is a shame that many deny the real meaning. Jesus wanted nothing to do with the spirit of the world (political system). It is controlled by Satan.


SHAG, I will agree that Jesus wanted nothing to do with the Spirit of the world, but the Spirit of the World is it not lust, greed, power, pride, selflessness, etc. as is in some of the messages of the Scripts you posted Satan was temping Jesus with?

Did God not do away with heathen Countries and populations to keep his chosen people clear from?

So are you saying we of FAITH should not get involved in politics to help insure the moral well being of our land?


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## atcfisherman

As it was said in Colossians, we don't need to worry with the modern day Pharisees who say "you must do this" & "you should not do that." Bottom line, if you feel compelled to vote, the vote by allowing God to guide you. If you feel compelled not to vote, then make sure it is God that is wanting you not to vote. But neither side should just the others conviction. 

There is nothing in the bible that directly says not to vote nor is there anything that says to vote. When one starts getting angry at others because they differ, then one might want to do some soul searching to make sure pride isn't in the way.


In Christ Alone I Place My Trust


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## WillieT

DA REEL DADDY said:


> SHAG, I will agree that Jesus wanted nothing to do with the Spirit of the world, but the Spirit of the World is it not lust, greed, power, pride, selflessness, etc. as is in some of the messages of the Scripts you posted Satan was temping Jesus with?
> 
> Did God not do away with heathen Countries and populations to keep his chosen people clear from?
> 
> So are you saying we of FAITH should not get involved in politics to help insure the moral well being of our land?


First of all, let me tell you I appreciate the question, not an attack. There have been a lot of opinions given, opinions of men, not of God. If you want the correct answers, go to God's word. Meditate, use discernment on what the scriptures are really saying.

Satan controls this system of things. If anyone questions this go to Ephesians 2:1-3. Then John 12:31. It is Jesus talking at John 14:30 when he said "â€¯I shall not speak much with YOU anymore, for the ruler of the world is coming. And he has no hold on me, It being clear that it was Satan that Jesus was speaking of.

Note what Paul said at Ephesians 6:12. 12â€¯because we have a wrestling, not against blood and flesh, but against the governments, against the authorities, against the world rulers of this darkness, against the wicked spirit forces in the heavenly places.
Paul knew that Satan was in control of the governments.

Human governments are not the answer to the world's problems. Why? Because they do not rely on God and His word. There are no real answers, except through God's kingdom. Psalm 83:18 18â€¯That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah,
You alone are the Most High over all the earth.
Jeremiah 10:7 7â€¯Who should not fear you, O King of the nations, for to you it is fitting; because among all the wise ones of the nations and among all their kingships there is in no way anyone like you.

Jeremiah 10:23 really sums it up. "I well know O Jehovah, that to earthling man his way does not belong. It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step." Man does not know what is best for himself. There is only one who knows what is best for all, that is Jehovah God.

Here is what is in store for those that are putting their trust in Man, in the governments. Jeremiah 10:10 10â€¯But Jehovah is in truth God. He is the living God and the King to time indefinite. Because of his indignation the earth will rock, and no nations will hold up under his denunciation

Revelation 16:14 . 14â€¯They are, in fact, expressions inspired by demons and perform signs, and they go forth to the kings of the entire inhabited earth, to gather them together to the war of the great day of God the Almighty

Note that in these scriptures that ALL the nations will be held accountable. Those that are depending on them will suffer the same fate. NO nation will hold up under his denunciation. Right now is the time to put your trust in God, not in man. Would God be set to destroy them if they were doing His will. That is why I place my trust in God, not man.

Twist, deny, do what ever you want, but the scriptures hold the answer, if you will just let them guide you.


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## atcfisherman

Shaggy,

Now you are crossing the line by saying others are twisting or denying because they don't hold to the JW views. We all strive to live according to God's word. Nowhere did anyone say that we were relying on the government to save us. But we are to be a light in a dying world and we live in this world that is governed by man made laws. If christians be silent, then one day, the government might outlaw your precious JW organization. Then what will you do?

God is in total control, but he also wants us to do our parts. Like I said before, if you feel compelled not to vote, then so be, but don't impose the JW man made rules on others. There is nowhere in the bible that directly says to not vote, nor is there anywhere that is says to vote. The more I encounter JW, the more I see modern day pharaisees. 

God cares more about the condition of the human heart rather than following a set of rules. Read Colossians!

PS: No one is attacking you. You just take things personally and with pride. What we do question is the JW views and their changing scriptures with their bible. Nothing personal, but I will follow God and His holy word, the bible, not some new addition or revalation that came about within the last 100 years.


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## Seeker

God despises boastfulness.. Just saying..


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## WillieT

atcfisherman said:


> Shaggy,
> 
> Now you are crossing the line by saying others are twisting or denying because they don't hold to the JW views. We all strive to live according to God's word. Nowhere did anyone say that we were relying on the government to save us. But we are to be a light in a dying world and we live in this world that is governed by man made laws. If christians be silent, then one day, the government might outlaw your precious JW organization. Then what will you do?
> 
> God is in total control, but he also wants us to do our parts. Like I said before, if you feel compelled not to vote, then so be, but don't impose the JW man made rules on others. There is nowhere in the bible that directly says to not vote, nor is there anywhere that is says to vote. The more I encounter JW, the more I see modern day pharaisees.
> 
> God cares more about the condition of the human heart rather than following a set of rules. Read Colossians!
> 
> PS: No one is attacking you. You just take things personally and with pride. What we do question is the JW views and their changing scriptures with their bible. Nothing personal, but I will follow God and His holy word, the bible, not some new addition or revalation that came about within the last 100 years.


Don't draw others into it, it is you that twist the scriptures.

The preaching word is banned in many countries. Isn't it funny how the number of witnesses continues to grow in those countries. There is tremendous persecution in many countries, but guess what, the numbers in those countries continues to grow.

If the preaching work is banned in this country, believe me, it will continue to be done. Witnesses give to Cesar his due until his law conflicts with God's law. It is ONLY with God's holy spirit can this work be accomplished.

God is not in total control. He has allowed Satan to control this system, as is very clear in the scriptures. That is how you twist and deny. I supported everything I said with scripture. I do not impose any rules on others. I simply point out what the scriptures say. The Mosaic Law was done away with when Christ died for us. If you want everything in black and white, like the law was, you will not find it. God puts His principals in our hearts. Follow what ever you want, but you seem to cling to a lot of apostate reasonings.

You say that we should do our part. What part are you doing to fulfill the commission given at Matthew 28:19,20 19â€¯Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20â€¯teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded YOU. And, look! I am with YOU all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.â€

This was a COMMAND.......from Jesus. How are you doing your part? Or is that another scripture that you can just ignore. Again, people make their own choices. Narrow is the gate.

Again you spread untruths about changing scriptures. We will all be judged when the day comes.

Please do not draw lines in the sand for me. The only lines I pay attention to are the ones drawn by God.


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## atcfisherman

Shaggy,

I am firm about what the bible says. I follow the bible and do not twist scriptures to meet my needs. Furthermore, just because a religious sect is "growing" doesn't mean anything. Islam is growing by leaps an bounds, yet we know they still are lost because they do not accept Christ as their savior.

I will always preach the truth of the King James bible. You can call names all you want, but that shows your character.


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## atcfisherman

Seeker said:


> God despises boastfulness.. Just saying..


Seeker,

I'm not sure who you directed this to. I agree that God does despise boathfulness, but He also wants us to defend the truth. People need to wake up and stand firm again people twisting scriptures around to meet a new religious sect's beliefs.


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## Seeker

atcfisherman said:


> Seeker,
> 
> I'm not sure who you directed this to. I agree that God does despise boathfulness, but He also wants us to defend the truth. People need to wake up and stand firm again people twisting scriptures around to meet a new religious sect's beliefs.


Be assured it was not you ATC... we all have a pretty good idea who I had in mind...


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