# I'd like to get in to tying, but..



## cesar medina (Oct 14, 2014)

I'd like to get in to fly tying, but I don't know anything about it. Is it really worth it? And with detailed math does one really save money ?

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## wiznut (Jun 10, 2013)

Do you save money?... Unlikely... Is it an entertaining hobby that gives you an extra kick of enjoyment when you catch a fish? Certainly.


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## karstopo (Jun 29, 2009)

Probably depends on how much you are tying. 

As an example, I tie a unique version of the popular redfish crack fly. It works on catching reds, trout, flounder, drum, sheepshead, just about anything in marsh and bay. So the one thing to keep in mind is that this version is not commercially available. My material costs work out to be about 80 cents per size 2 fly, not including time. I really don't know what you would pay for a similar fly. A lot of redfish flies are around $3.00 per unit. The math sounds good for tying your own, but you have to overcome the tool purchase initially. I have tied hundreds of flies getting into the thousands. So the cost of tools gets diluted by the volume of tying. A full time commercial tier will tie tens of thousands of flies in a year. 

I tie not so much to save money but to come up with my own patterns that work where I fish. I've copied plenty of the popular flies like clousers, woolly buggers, prince nymphs, seaducers, bend backs etc. but most of the flies I use are ones that I developed from ideas I had about what I wanted the fly to resemble and do. Sometimes, there isn't a commercially available fly that does or looks like what you need the fly to look like or do. So you tie your own.


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## Worm Drowner (Sep 9, 2010)

I tie only if I can't find the fly commercially and then I only tie what I need. I figure others can tie better, cheaper and faster than I can. I make my living spending 40+ hours a week at a desk looking at little figures on spreadsheets, I have little desire to spend my free time hunched over a desk looking at little flies in a vice. Yes, it was cool the first time I caught a fish on a fly that I tied, but I'm way over that.


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## cesar medina (Oct 14, 2014)

Worm Drowner said:


> I tie only if I can't find the fly commercially and then I only tie what I need. I figure others can tie better, cheaper and faster than I can. I make my living spending 40+ hours a week at a desk looking at little figures on spreadsheets, I have little desire to spend my free time hunched over a desk looking at little flies in a vice. Yes, it was cool the first time I caught a fish on a fly that I tied, but I'm way over that.


I can agree with you about it wouldn't want to spend my free time on the vise.

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## cesar medina (Oct 14, 2014)

Well I'm leaning more towards it. What would be a good vise and tools to get ? I don't need an expensive one nor do I want a cheap one to later buy a good one. So what are good options?

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## karstopo (Jun 29, 2009)

It's funny because when you go to a rocky mountain fly shop they typically have a huge selection of relevant flies. I never felt like that was the same case for inshore, redfish type action. I think larger flies are easier to tie than tiny trout patterns. 

I think you can do modifications to a pattern like a Clouser that might make it better, or not. A different flash material, different thread colors, eyes. A lot of flies I make are from brushes created in a dubbing loop. You can control the amount of material in the loop, the length, color variations, that you would never be able to buy unless you contracted someone to build a fly to certain specs. You can add rattles, weird eyes, glitter, all kinds of things to grab a fish's attention in murky water. Off the shelf flies, the ones I see, seem not to have what I'm looking for in movement, shape, weight, color, various dimensions that I believe are important to catching fish. 

It's true that reds can be incredibly unselective at times. But, sometimes they are very selective as are drum, trout, flounder, croaker, sheepshead. I want to have a reasonable shot at all of these because they are what's found where I fish. I just wasn't finding any store bought patterns besides Clousers that really fit the bill. So I came up with or modified other patterns to fit my waters and ways of fishing. Sight casting is great, but anyone familiar with the upper Texas coast knows this isn't always possible. I wanted flies that work around structure in muddy water. So that is what I make. Dry flies, nymphs for trout. Let someone else do those. I tie woolly buggers because they are just too easy. Deer hair, no way.


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## Worm Drowner (Sep 9, 2010)

A very good reasonably priced one is the Danvise, http://www.jsflyfishing.com/danvise

When I did buy my stuff, I asked Dave at Swan Point Landing in Rockport to put together a good value equipment package for me and that was the vise he included. It has served me well. It isn't as high and as say a Renzetti, but it has worked just fine.

As far as scissors, whip finishers, hackle plies, etc., Dr. Slick tools are pretty good quality. http://www.drslick.com/catalog/fly-tying Look up what flies you want to tie and start out just buying the materials to tie them. If you want to expand, you can always add to the collection.


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## Worm Drowner (Sep 9, 2010)

karstopo said:


> Deer hair, no way.


 Friends don't let friends stack deer hair! :rotfl:


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## karstopo (Jun 29, 2009)

I like Dr slick tools. I can't tell the difference between their high end scissors and the cheapest ones they sell. Ceramic tip bobbins are nice. 

Vises, I hear there are some good inexpensive ones, apex?, I have a HMH and it holds the hook pretty well and that's about all I want. Some people like rotary vises and I have no experience using that. Mine could rotate and I wouldn't even know it.


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## Permit Rat (May 13, 2014)

Is Thompson still in business? The Thompson A vise was the unquestioned go-to on the east coast......about $45.00, the last time I saw a price (which might have been before the OP was born.....OOPS!)


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## Finn Maccumhail (Feb 16, 2009)

I don't tie flies but I need to.

If you're tying a ton of different patterns then you're not likely to save money because you'll constantly be buying different materials.

However, as I've progressed in my fly fishing I've noticed that I use a relatively small number of patterns.

I don't really trout fish so my freshwater fishing for bass (LMB, Guads, smallies, whites, hybrids, and stripers) & bream is about 99% one of the following patterns:
- Clouser minnows
- assorted wooly buggers
- assorted poppers

Reds, trout, drum, sheepies
- redfish crack in various sizes and a few colors bead-chain eyes or lead
- seaducers

Surf/jetties/offshore
- poppers
- seaducers
- clousers
- gummy minnow
- EP baitfish

Tarpon
- toad
- cockroach
- tarpon mouse

I've done very little permit fishing or bone fishing so I can't really comment there. But that's really just 11 different patterns in varying sizes & colors so I probably should tie as I could likely save a great deal of money as virtually all of these use extremely similar materials.


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## karstopo (Jun 29, 2009)

Permit Rat said:


> Is Thompson still in business? The Thompson A vise was the unquestioned go-to on the east coast......about $45.00, the last time I saw a price (which might have been before the OP was born.....OOPS!)


http://www.bearsden.com/page59.html

Looks like the A is $66. Looks a lot like my HMH, but I paid more for that.


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## barefootin (Aug 1, 2008)

I tie flies and light jigs and considerate it a hobby or entertainment. I experiment a lot with different materials and presentations and enjoy the satisfaction of creating or duplicating patterns. Tying can be tedious work if you are cranking out patterns for yourself or to sell.


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## cesar medina (Oct 14, 2014)

Well I'll keep Yall updated and when I tie something worth showing I'll show Yall. Thanks guys

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## Outearly (Nov 17, 2009)

I bought a kit from someone on 2cool who gave up tying-and have seen used kits here and on other sites from time to time- worked really well for me, got me started


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## karstopo (Jun 29, 2009)

I have tons of material that you pick up here and there. But you can do a lot with enrico pulgisi fibers. Craft fur is handy too. X-small Dumbbells, a few hackles. 

I always thought it was good to copy a proven pattern as well as you can. Sometimes, that's harder than it sounds even if you have the full recipe with a video to go with it. I think there are regular tying get togethers where you can see experienced tyers at work. Doesn't FTU have these? 

It just takes some mess ups to get to where you can cut just the right amount of material, the right length, and place it in the right position. The more you do the more you can pick up stuff. I try to look at any saltwater fly now and reverse engineer it. The good thing is that flies don't take up a lot of space. You can do a bunch that would fit in just one box of lures.


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## cesar medina (Oct 14, 2014)

Update: I got a renzetti traveler 2000. I got a discount and free shipping! And first fly tied, a seaducer. I may have cut the hackle too short but I think it looks semi decent









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## karstopo (Jun 29, 2009)

Seaducer looks good IMHO. I tied a few early on and never really liked how they came out. I made mine too big. I barely ever fished them. I guess seaducers excel at landing softly, sinking slowly and casting easily.


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

Most excellent choice. I got one as a gift (a very wise grift) 30 years ago and it hasn't missed a beat and has gone places with me all over the World. It is indeed a traveler. 

Very wise choice.


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## cesar medina (Oct 14, 2014)

here's one with purple hackle and gold Krystal flash

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## Fishsurfer (Dec 14, 2014)

Looks real good for a beginner, your a natural. Nothing about fly fishing is cheap.


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## Bruce J (Jun 27, 2004)

Great selection on the Renzetti. I know when I started I wanted to tie one of everything, and I just made up most of them on the spot. While that was fun at first, I was actually producing a lot of junk which I just ended up throwing out later.

If you have the patience for it, I'd recommend picking just a couple of really popular and productive patterns - like clousers and seaducers. Then pick one of those to start, and tie about a dozen of them in a row, using the same hooks, material, colors, everything. Try to make each one just a little better than the last - better placement of the material, neater windings, less thread, cleaner head, etc. I bet you will see a material improvement in every one, and pretty shortly they will start to look kinda/sorta/almost professional. And the dividend is that you'll actually catch fish with them!


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## southpaw (Feb 25, 2009)

Bruce J said:


> Great selection on the Renzetti. I know when I started I wanted to tie one of everything, and I just made up most of them on the spot. While that was fun at first, I was actually producing a lot of junk which I just ended up throwing out later.
> 
> If you have the patience for it, I'd recommend picking just a couple of really popular and productive patterns - like clousers and seaducers. Then pick one of those to start, and tie about a dozen of them in a row, using the same hooks, material, colors, everything. Try to make each one just a little better than the last - better placement of the material, neater windings, less thread, cleaner head, etc. I bet you will see a material improvement in every one, and pretty shortly they will start to look kinda/sorta/almost professional. And the dividend is that you'll actually catch fish with them!


X2 on all of this. Pick a pattern or a few patterns that each need different tying methods and tie a bunch of them. My flies from when I first started tying to the flies I tie now are night and day different. One thing I'll add is one mistake a lot of beginner tiers seem to make is using waaaay too much material and thread. Most material doesn't need a hundred and one wraps to secure it in. Next time you tie a seaducer wrap the tail with just one layer of wraps really tight and try to pull the feathers out. You'll probably break the feathers before you pull it from the wraps. Wrap it a few times to secure it and super glue it and you shouldn't have any problems. There's exceptions to this like craft fur, but for the most part don't go overkill on how much thread you use. It goes a long way in cleaning up the appearance of your flies.

Also, check out this guy's youtube channel. Great tying videos on a really broad spectrum of patterns. He also gives great tips for tying.


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