# Tilapia experts



## karstopo (Jun 29, 2009)

I come up with a Nile Tilapia. What say you?









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## Gofish2day (May 9, 2006)

Dinner!


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## karstopo (Jun 29, 2009)

Gofish2day said:


> Dinner!


I need to start eating some. The lake is chock full of them. Throw out some range cubes and then a cast net a little later and it doesn't take long to get enough for dinner. We've been throwing them back. Live too close to the coast and conditioned to eating redfish, trout and flounder.

I caught the one in the photo on a woolly bugger fly. Went just over 2 pounds. Don't catch too many on the fly. I understand this private Lake was supposed to be stocked with Mozambique Tilapia to control algae and vegetation but this looks like a Nile to me. Nile are said to be a little more cold tolerant.


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## Ready.Fire.Aim (Sep 22, 2009)

Nice fish, I bet that was fun on a fly rod. 

I have tilapia in my 8 acre lake in Matagorda County. They get several pounds in size and overwinter. 

When the water gets cold they get sluggish and move into shallows on sunny days to warm up. It's common to see bald eagles and ospreys swooping in to get one. 
One year a bald eagle brought her fledglings to a big cottonwood on the lake and taught them to fish, that was a memorable experience.

It's clean water and they taste great. 
I won't eat store bought tilapia raised in Chinese sewage.


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## karstopo (Jun 29, 2009)

Ready.Fire.Aim said:


> Nice fish, I bet that was fun on a fly rod.
> 
> I have tilapia in my 8 acre lake in Matagorda County. They get several pounds in size and overwinter.
> 
> ...


The ospreys work them over in this lake. And I avoid restaurant and store tilapia for the same reason.

The Mozambique tilapia is supposed to be the least cold tolerant. But I think we have the Nile. There's a homeowners association that hired someone to stock them several years ago. I had heard they stocked the Mozambique and the story was that they would die each winter when the water got cold. There's been cold weather kills in past years but it hasn't wiped them out by any stretch, they keep make more. I think 50 degrees water temperature is always fatal to the Mozambique species but the Nile can get a little lower. The Blue tilapia is the most cold hardy, but I don't think the one in the photo looks like that.


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

Definitely Mozambique Tilapia...been growing them for over twenty years. 

If they can find a warm spot/hole that stays above 55 deg., they can survive, but otherwise its death. Mine made it to this last cold front, but I expect they will all be dead after tonight.

Thank your homeowners association next time you catch a double digit bass there.


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

Ready.Fire.Aim said:


> ...When the water gets cold they get sluggish and move into shallows on sunny days to warm up. ...


That's the way we load up our freezer with them every fall...get 'em in the shallows w/range cubes and away from the bluegills, and then proceed to catch as many as your freezer will hold ...or you can clean. They aren't the easiest to clean.

Fantastic eating.


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## karstopo (Jun 29, 2009)

Yours look like mine. I couldnâ€™t seem to find a lot of great photos on the web. Coastal water has been in the mid or low 50â€™s. Lake Conroe about the same. It might be a tough night for the Tilapia here. The last several winters havenâ€™t put much of a dent in the population. A few die on the cold snaps, many more are created. 

They are good forage. My daughter has been using them for bait and has caught big cats and bass. I used a live one about a pound as bait and my son caught a 35# blue cat on it. According to the team that surveys the lake the only fish that have suffered at the expense of the tilapia or grass carp are bluegills and maybe crappie. Thereâ€™s too many catfish in the lake so I know the tilapia arenâ€™t messing them up.


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

In a bass lake/pond, bluegills actually benefit from the presence of the Tilapia. The Tilapia are perfect protein for bass (size and shape), swim slower than 'gills, and actually offer fry to big bluegills which absolutely love them.

Tilapia take the predatory pressure off the 'gills and enable their forage to build up in numbers and size during the summer months. Then, in the winter after Tilapia have died, the 'gills are more numerous and larger than they would otherwise have been...perfect for bass. 

I was one of the first to discovered this effect on bluegills and wrote about it in a National magazine and it has been since confirmed many times over by others. 

We've taken 12.5 lb, 11.5 lb and 10 lb bass over the years, not to mention more 7s,8s, and 9s than can keep track of....all fattened up on Mozambique Tilapia. 

The 12.5 pounder(pictured) was 27 inches and had not filled out for the spring spawn around Thanksgiving time...would go well over 14 pounds next spring, if we can catch her. 

Bluegill over 13 inches are rare, only caught one, but 10 to 12 inch fat 'gills are common. 

Tilapia work absolute magic in my ponds...and are welcomed back every spring as regular as clockwork.


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## karstopo (Jun 29, 2009)

That would be the ideal scenario with the tilapia dying off completely each winter and then getting restocked in the spring. This lake has only had very limited die offs with most tilapia surviving the past few winters unscathed. Something has really brought down the bluegill population to where the association sponsored survey couldnâ€™t find any and the gills got subsequently restocked. I did read that tilapia will prey on fish eggs and fry. 

Maybe this winter will be different and will wipe them out, the tilapia, so we can restock them. But the bass and catfish do love them to eat. My son pulled out his 35# blue on a pound plus live tilapia and daughter got a 22# channel on one and some nice bass. I need a thermometer to check the lake temperature. One fishy expert I showed the photo to said our might be some sort of hybrid tilapia and that, Iâ€™ve read, is something that happens. There have been events where other water from other streams have gotten into the lake so that could account from different species and hybrids. Nile Tilapia has been documented in streams in our part of Texas. They have a reported lower temperature tolerance than the Mozambique.


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## JFolm (Apr 22, 2012)

Meadowlark said:


> In a bass lake/pond, bluegills actually benefit from the presence of the Tilapia. The Tilapia are perfect protein for bass (size and shape), swim slower than 'gills, and actually offer fry to big bluegills which absolutely love them.
> 
> Tilapia take the predatory pressure off the 'gills and enable their forage to build up in numbers and size during the summer months. Then, in the winter after Tilapia have died, the 'gills are more numerous and larger than they would otherwise have been...perfect for bass.
> 
> ...


A few questions,

Pond size?

Do you purchase tilapia to replenish?

When do you replenish?

My cousin has a small pond that he wants cleaned up (algae) and I was trying to find info on tilapia and carp as an option. The goal for the pond is to hold bait for catfish.

Thanks.


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

JFolm said:


> A few questions,
> 
> Pond size?
> 
> ...


JFolm,

I stock them in several ponds ranging in size from 1/4 acre up to 4 acres.

Yes, I restock every year in late spring when the water temps are safely above 60 deg. It pays to make sure the temps are safe before stocking and temp margins are good. One year we had a substantial snow on April 15 but the stockers were fine because they had a margin in the water temps.

They are absolutely great in my ponds on controlling algae. After years of doing this I only require about 2 pounds of Tilapia per acre for algae control...but I stock higher rates in the bass ponds for forage production and bluegill protection. 10 pounds per acre works pretty good for a pond that hasn't seen them before.

Grass carp will NOT control algae...but working together with Tilapia they are formidable vegetation controllers in ponds. You definitely want to go slow on stocking grass carp. Fish dealers will push 20 or more per acre. I prefer 1-2 per acre for my ponds for weed control, not algae control.

Good luck and feel free to ask me any questions. I've had a lot of experience with Tilapia in ponds...probably as much as anyone in Texas. By the way, they are outstanding bait for catfish.


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## JFolm (Apr 22, 2012)

I knew you had to have decent sized ponds for creating 12lb bass. Thatâ€™s impressive. Iâ€™ve read your posts about your ponds some in the past. 

Heâ€™s always had grass and algae issues. I was talking to him about it and mentioned tilapia. He was excited about all three possible benefits, algae control, bait, and table fare. 

His pond is small, maybe 1/4 acre or so. If it was really over grown with algae from years of build up. Should we get 10 lbs? Also, what size would you suggest? Knowing itâ€™s a small pond and they will probably die off next winter. I didnâ€™t know what size would maximize algae removal. 

Thanks for your wisdom.


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

JFolm said:


> ...His pond is small, maybe 1/4 acre or so. If it was really over grown with algae from years of build up. Should we get 10 lbs? Also, what size would you suggest? ....


I would probably go with 5 pounds...but generally more is better. If it has catfish in it, they will eat some of the stockers before they can spawn. Size isn't critical, but I always figure smaller means more fish per pound and more fish means more spawners and more algae eaters. They will spawn even at 3 or 4 inches and continue spawning every 28 days until a cold front takes them out.

I almost never see dead Tilapia in the fall, in spite of thousands of them dying. The bass consume every one of them. The only time I did see a big fall die-off was in my 1/4 acre bait pond which had no predators in it. A cold front killed them all and I was shocked to see the entire pond surface covered solid with dead Tilapia. Those suckers really multiply. Nature's clean up crew took care of them in just a couple of days.


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## karstopo (Jun 29, 2009)

In the past limited die offs, I only have seen big tilapia, around 2 or plus pounds, dead so your comment that the bass and others eating them makes sense. The smaller pound sized fish on down are evidently getting gobbled up by the bass and catfish during the cold weather near die offs. 

I walk the lake bank this morning and no sign of any dead or distressed tilapia. I'm now where, based on this inquiry, I like having them in the lake as long as they behave and don't take over the place. And they better stop eating bluegill eggs if indeed that's what's going on. Heck, we have too many catfish according to the biologists. Maybe they are my bluegill destroyers. I know they love a live gill. 

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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

karstopo said:


> ... And they better stop eating bluegill eggs if indeed that's what's going on....


They do indeed eat bluegill eggs...but only after they mature into full grown adult fish....fish well over 4 pounds, which in most Texas ponds doesn't happen due to the annual die off.

Scientific studies have confirmed this in Mexico where the lakes with heavy Tilapia netting have significantly better bass fishing that those without Tilapia netting....conclusion being that the larger Tilapia, which never die in Mexico and are the target of the netters, eat fish eggs and their removal is necessary to promote good bass recruitment and fishing.


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## karstopo (Jun 29, 2009)

Meadowlark said:


> They do indeed eat bluegill eggs...but only after they mature into full grown adult fish....fish well over 4 pounds, which in most Texas ponds doesn't happen due to the annual die off.
> 
> Scientific studies have confirmed this in Mexico where the lakes with heavy Tilapia netting have significantly better bass fishing that those without Tilapia netting....conclusion being that the larger Tilapia, which never die in Mexico and are the target of the netters, eat fish eggs and their removal is necessary to promote good bass recruitment and fishing.


I guess because we are on the coast and the lake has a muddy bottom and deeper than a lot of stock ponds, at least some of the adults and juvenile fish are making it through our recent mild winters. The first tilapia I hooked when we moved here this year was right off the dock and was massive. I messed around and didnâ€™t have a net and it pulled off at my hands. Fish was easily 4 pounds.

I grew up on the same lake 40 years ago. Back then, there were no tilapia, Florida strain largemouth or grass carp. There was tons of coontail moss lining the shores and choking the shallow ends and tons of bluegill. Algae and aquatic vegetation control back then consisted of spraying copper salts on the growth.

The bass seem bigger these days on average and the numbers are good. The Fish survey found 70 percent of the bass had Florida genes.

I should eat the tilapia. I never really ate any fish from the lake. The catfish back then 40 years ago tasted grassy and muddy. There are crappie and people eat those. No one eats the bass. A few eat the tilapia and say they are good. Restaurant, Chinese raised tilapia are gross to me. I donâ€™t eat fish from a restaurant unless I know itâ€™s some local farm raised or even better wild caught type. We eat fish pretty regularly but itâ€™s always locally caught saltwater fish. Maybe I need to put tilapia into the rotation.


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## karstopo (Jun 29, 2009)

The tilapia out in the lake made it through the recent cold snaps. I saw an Osprey with decent sized one yesterday and an Anhinga with a small one this morning. I could see the little tilapia wiggling in the beak of the water turkey. Never checked the water temperatures in the lake, but a lot of the local bays got into the low 50's to mid 50's. I saw a gauge on Lake Conroe be about the same.


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## cva34 (Dec 22, 2008)

When you got Meadowlark on line you met the( Fresh Water WISPERER)...


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## Ready.Fire.Aim (Sep 22, 2009)

Today I saw about a dozen Tilipia floating against the shoreline in my lake. 
They died in the last cold snap. 

A bald eagle was harvesting them today. 

My size 10 rubber boot for comparison.


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

It amazes me how those Eagles know there is easy food available for the taking. 

That's a good specimen, RFA, probably about 5 pounds and likely a hold over fish from previous years. Too big for bass.


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## karstopo (Jun 29, 2009)

Ready.Fire.Aim said:


> Today I saw about a dozen Tilipia floating against the shoreline in my lake.
> They died in the last cold snap.
> 
> A bald eagle was harvesting them today.
> ...


How far north are you? I still havenâ€™t seen any dead ones.


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## Ready.Fire.Aim (Sep 22, 2009)

karstopo said:


> How far north are you? I still havenâ€™t seen any dead ones.


Matagorda County. 8 acre lake, 12 ft deep.


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## karstopo (Jun 29, 2009)

Meadowlark said:


> It amazes me how those Eagles know there is easy food available for the taking.
> 
> That's a good specimen, RFA, probably about 5 pounds and likely a hold over fish from previous years. Too big for bass.


The eagles have been around eating the large dead tilapia on our lake. Saw a juvenile and a mature bald eagle. At least one tilapia survived the freeze. I saw a large one yesterday afternoon sunning up against the bank and it spooked when I cast a bugger of by it.


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## wwind3 (Sep 30, 2009)

8 yrs ago when I lived in Kingwood people were snagging them. Caught some huge ones. Don't know if they still do that. The authorities stepped in--Catch 22. If you got one you had to kill it ---foreign fish -not native--but snagging them was illegal. Alrighty then........

People were using treble hooks with worm trailers to get around the snagging rules---uh huh......


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## karstopo (Jun 29, 2009)

Some are still hanging in there. But I don't know if any are going to survive the next cold air blast slated for this weekend. Been hearing about dead ones from fishermen out on the lake.

Saw several today semi-lethargic hovering near the surface (probably trying to soak up the thin sunlight). These cloudy cool days aren't helping the tilapia that remain.

This fish had some scale issues, blotches, and wasn't looking real strong.









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## Ready.Fire.Aim (Sep 22, 2009)

My lake has a lot more dead ones from the last cold snap. Bald eagle is having easy pickings. 

Some were so big a flock of buzzards were picking on them. 

I expect a few to survive, lake has seen worse cold spells.


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## karstopo (Jun 29, 2009)

Ready.Fire.Aim said:


> My lake has a lot more dead ones from the last cold snap. Bald eagle is having easy pickings.
> 
> Some were so big a flock of buzzards were picking on them.
> 
> I expect a few to survive, lake has seen worse cold spells.


Pretty much the same here. Buzzards around. Seen 2 bald eagles. Stunned fish. Seen one healthy tilapia since last cold outbreak.

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## al_carl (Jan 20, 2012)

I raise Mozzies in a 300 gallon tote.

I built a heater for them and it's been able to keep up through this cold and maintain 65+ even on the coldest nights. When it really dipped down I had to shut off the flow to the grow beds so that it didn't have as much volume to heat. 

Unfortunately, somehow a fry got all the way through the filtration and pumps and ended up in a grow bed. Found a dead fingerling in there the other day. It's not the first time they've popped up where they shouldn't be, but it's odd that they are breeding right now.


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

al_carl said:


> I raise Mozzies in a 300 gallon tote.
> 
> ....


Good for you! I converted our hot tub into a Winter fish aquarium. Overwintered Tilapia and sometimes Pacu for several years. It was very common when cleaning out the tub in the spring to find Tilapia fry. Those fish put rabbits to shame.

It was a lot of work to get those fish through the winter...and I finally gave up but not before raising some spectacular fish.

See one of the "fruits" of my labor in the share a lunker thread here.


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## al_carl (Jan 20, 2012)

Meadowlark said:


> It was a lot of work to get those fish through the winter...and I finally gave up but not before raising some spectacular fish.


It wouldn't have been much work for me except BOTH of my thermostats bit the dust. I had to wire the heater directly to a breaker and monitor the temp myself. I turned it off this morning at 75 degrees but will turn it back on tonight in anticipation of the cold weather coming. You are welcome to use my heater design 

I just raise them for my own consumption and to feed the plants in my aquaponic set up. I've got a retention pond behind the house that has bass and crappie in it but not sure how the HOA would feel about me dumping tilapia in there. Not to mention it's catch and release only so I really wouldn't be able to benefit from it.



Meadowlark said:


> See one of the "fruits" of my labor in the share a lunker thread here.


Nice looking fish on that thread! I look forward to seeing the bigger ones soon.


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## karstopo (Jun 29, 2009)

Ready.Fire.Aim said:


> My lake has a lot more dead ones from the last cold snap. Bald eagle is having easy pickings.
> 
> Some were so big a flock of buzzards were picking on them.
> 
> I expect a few to survive, lake has seen worse cold spells.


It's kind of a very good scenario shaping up. The cold is greatly thinning the herd which in this lake needed to happen, but maybe not completely wiping them out and leaving some for brood stock. This winter has been harder on them than the past several as far as I can tell.

They have been tougher so far and hanging in there more than I thought they would. But the prolonged cold seems to get to them eventually.

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## wwind3 (Sep 30, 2009)

al_carl said:


> It wouldn't have been much work for me except BOTH of my thermostats bit the dust. I had to wire the heater directly to a breaker and monitor the temp myself. I turned it off this morning at 75 degrees but will turn it back on tonight in anticipation of the cold weather coming. You are welcome to use my heater design
> 
> I just raise them for my own consumption and to feed the plants in my aquaponic set up. I've got a retention pond behind the house that has bass and crappie in it but not sure how the HOA would feel about me dumping tilapia in there. Not to mention it's catch and release only so I really wouldn't be able to benefit from it.
> 
> Nice looking fish on that thread! I look forward to seeing the bigger ones soon.


Tilapia used to be a nuisance fish or non native--used to have to kill them if you caught one--no put backs.


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## al_carl (Jan 20, 2012)

wwind3 said:


> Tilapia used to be a nuisance fish or non native--used to have to kill them if you caught one--no put backs.


Mozambiques are the only ones you can have in Texas without a permit. It's because they can't handle our temperatures and most get killed off every year.


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

wwind3 said:


> Tilapia used to be a nuisance fish or non native--used to have to kill them if you caught one--no put backs.


LOL at "nuisance fish". Millions of people all over the World survive on Tilapia...and Jesus himself feed the masses Tilapia (reportedly Nile Tilapia) in that famous Scripture passage.

Anglers are still required to kill them when caught and eviscerate them before transporting from public waters....classified as invasive species.

Nope, not a nuisance fish to me. I love them...love what they do in my waters, love to catch them especially on the fly, and love to eat them.


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

al_carl said:


> .... You are welcome to use my heater design
> 
> ....


I'm interested in hearing about it...if you are willing to share.

I'm thinking of making another run at the Pacu. They are more temp sensitive than Tilapia to cold temps. I've bought them finger size and by wintering them in my hot tub and letting them fend for themselves in summers, then catching them and returning them to winter protection, I've raised one to 17 pounds. They are the fastest growing fish I have ever been around....incredible growth. Outstanding fish on the fly.

That fish got so mean and difficult to handle, however I just couldn't manage it by myself....but thinking at making another run.


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## al_carl (Jan 20, 2012)

Meadowlark said:


> I'm interested in hearing about it...if you are willing to share.


Check out the picture on the previous page. Flow goes into the long pipe to the bottom of the cylinder and up past the heating elements to exit the short pipe. The elements are 3500W 240V wired in series. Still gives 3500 watts of heating but at half the current. If you had more power available you could get bigger elements or run them parallel.

Hole in the center is for the temperature probe. If it was working correctly then it would cycle the heater on and off.


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## tngbmt (May 30, 2004)

my red belly pacu's died this year from the snow storm we had .. at 2 years old, they were about 4-5 lbs, all the tilapia died from the last freeze but the koi's made it.

i converted our swimming pool to a fish pond since the kids stop using it.. will have to redesign my heater this year


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## al_carl (Jan 20, 2012)

al_carl said:


> I just raise them for my own consumption and to feed the plants in my aquaponic set up. I've got a retention pond behind the house that has bass and crappie in it but not sure how the HOA would feel about me dumping tilapia in there. Not to mention it's catch and release only so I really wouldn't be able to benefit from it.


So, funny thing. Wife and I just went for a walk and found a massive die off of tilapia in the retention pond. I really had no clue they were even in there. The wind has blown all kinds of **** in the pond and gathered most of the fish up in one area. Thatâ€™s not going to smell good.

On another note, can anyone identify the fish in the second picture?

















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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

Nature's clean-up crew will take care of those before you know it. 



Looks like a drum...gou...in that second picture.


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## karstopo (Jun 29, 2009)

That second fish looks like a buffalo.


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## Linh811 (Apr 8, 2017)

karstopo said:


> That second fish looks like a buffalo.


^^^^


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## karstopo (Jun 29, 2009)

Lots of dead tilapia on the shoreline as of yesterday. The Black vultures are having a good feast. Some tilapia are still alive and slowly swimming along just under the surface. One looked to still have some fire and reflexes. Most looked pretty lethargic and like they were trying to soak up the abundant sunshine. 

I canâ€™t believe any are still alive, but maybe they are just in the death spiral and itâ€™s just taking time. The entire water column had to have gotten well below the reported 50 degree lethal threshold for Mozambique tilapia in the last cold spell we had. We got to 21 degrees and never really got much above freezing for a couple of days. The water never really warmed up much from the cold previously. 

It will be interesting to see if there are any left by March. The first big cold snap culled a few. This latest recent cold really appears to have hit them hard.


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## cva34 (Dec 22, 2008)

Just a comment ..Been a great read THX...and education...they have been one of my favorite eating fish for years..Mild flavor and do not stink up house like most fish when cooked..


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## Ready.Fire.Aim (Sep 22, 2009)

I had over a thousand dead tilapia. Several in the 2-3 lb range. 

Bald Eagles had a great feast. 

I thought I had every buzzard in the county eating washed up fish.


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

Ready.Fire.Aim said:


> I had over a thousand dead tilapia. Several in the 2-3 lb range.
> 
> ...


That's exactly why I fill my freezer up with them every fall.

This winter has been more typical of past winters like we had all through the 80's. Several consecutive days/nights of cold temps.

It takes that for the cold to reach the bottom depths of ponds in the 20 ft range ...and it becomes nowhere to hide.


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## tngbmt (May 30, 2004)

when do u restock?


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## karstopo (Jun 29, 2009)

Weâ€™ve had a lot floating by. I canâ€™t get in the boat yet per doctorâ€™s orders, but I doubt any tilapia are left alive based on the numbers of dead ones. Something drug up a 3-4 pound one up towards the house and ate the head off. The Osprey are around but I think they only like live fish. I see a lot of vultures, too, but all in the air. There must be better shorelines on down the lake. 

Yes, this winter has been more like the winters I remember from the 1970s and 1980s. I guess the lake will likely put in more later in the spring to compensate for the lost fish.


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

tngbmt said:


> when do u restock?


After water temps reliably get above 60 deg. Around here, that is normally after tax day.

A couple of important considerations:

1) you need some margins in the water temp. Late cold snaps can drop the water temp quickly...5 deg drop is easy to get.

2) the Tilapia below 60 deg are pretty much lethargic and don't eat or reproduce. Worse, for me, they can become easy prey for the bass/predator in your water. Nothing worse than paying over $10 per pound only to se it become a snack for your bass.


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## karstopo (Jun 29, 2009)

Wow, thousands of tilapia lined the shores of the lake by yesterday afternoon or were floating out in the middle. There were fish a little under a pound on up to 3-4 pounds that I saw. No little ones, I guess the bass and catfish ate those. Iâ€™ve never seen so many vultures gathered in one place. The fish must have been deep and died and then rotted and are now floating up. The odor is pretty strong out by the water. 

My dad who lives next door came over for dinner last night and the said the lake committee has no plans to ever stock them again (probably because of this massive die off) and the hope is that this winter finishes them off. Iâ€™m not sure what the plan is for aquatic vegetation control will be because I think thatâ€™s why they were stocked in the first place.


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