# Factory ammo issue



## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

I have a sub moa Weatherby 7mm rem mag that I bought last year. Didn't really have time to finish the sighting to my satisfaction but did kill a deer at 225 yds, but it didn't hit where I was aiming. So this year I took it to the range to finish the job. I was/am shooting Hornady 139 gr ammo @ 3150 fps. The rifle was slinging lead all over the target. So I thought the barrel was hot, let it cool between every shot and it still slung it everywhere, as in 6 - 8" from point of aim. I am thinking the rifle is bad. A buddy had some handloads, 150 gr Accubonds @ 2800 fps???not sure of the exact velocity. Shot a 100 yd 4 shot group sub moa with three holes touching. My guess is that the rifle doesn't like the high velocity or that there is a wide variance between the bullet velocities within the box. Thinking the former because the factory ammo was both left and right of POA, as well as high and even with POA. Anybody have these wide variances in performance out of factory ammo. I have never seen it this bad before, but then again I have never owned a magnum rifle which I feel is the issue. Input???

P.S. Needless to say, I am getting a couple boxes of the Accubonds loaded as we speak.


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## SYCO (Dec 1, 2007)

I had the same thing happen when I got my 7mm mag about ten years ago. I started off shooting 140 grain Federal Premium Noslar Partitions and could not get a decent group, switched to the 160 grains and have been shooting them ever since.


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## pacontender (Jun 26, 2004)

Could be any number of reasons. I doubt it's the speed. My 7 STW shoots the Nosler Accubonds in 160 and 140 and the Hornady 139s far faster than the 7 mag and has no issues. All are .4 or better. The gun may just not like the hornadys. The accubonds are a much tougher bullet.

Just looked at the Nosler site, and they don't make a 150 accubond in 7 mm.


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

Paco, I could be wrong about the brand of the projectile, at the point he was telling me what they were, I wasn't listening too good!!!!! But they are 150 gr and about 2800 fps. I guess the rifle just doesn't like the 139 gr for some reason.


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## Too Tall (May 21, 2004)

could be the twist in your rifle doesn't like the lighter bullets or it may be the brand and bullet design. Stick with the heavier weights as they seem to be working for you and then experiment with the lighter bullets.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

So many things it could be. Just do some "checking out" of the other manufacturers or reloads and find one the gun likes. It will take some time but you will be much happier.

Charlie


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## sparcboy (May 11, 2009)

*Same experience and comments on variables....*

I just bought a 7mm mag and am having the same issues. I started with rem 140gr accutip, because I shoot consistent tight groups with 130gr accutips out of my .270 and every dear I have shot drops it in it's tracks, except one large buck...south texas buck, and he only went about 30'.
I've talked to several people at gun shops and here the same thing as mentioned before and have read before about different calibers. You have to find the bullet the gun shoots well. I'm trying some hornadys next.
Also few people ever mention the twist of their guns. I've seen 7mm mags range from 9.25 to 10 twist. Few people mention the length of their barrel either, and that I've seen that vary from 25" to 27". I cant' imagine two guns with different twists rates and/or barrel lengths shooting the same bullets the same, so unless someone specifies the twist rate and barrell length, you could very well just being comparing apples to oranges.


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## CoastalOutfitters (Aug 20, 2004)

have a 22-250 that won't shoot one brand of 55 spitzers, the bullets are loaded really deep in the cases and i suspect it is bullet slap into the barrel.

i set up the same weight bullets to my rifle chambering with handloads and they are 1/2 moa, go figure


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## Screeminreel (Jun 2, 2004)

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is fouling in the barrel. I have both a standard 7 mag and an STW, both shoot pen hole groups until they get around 30 or so rounds down the tube. 

You might give it a good cleaning using some good copper remover like Shooter's Choice, Montana Extreme or Wipe Out. Let it sit for about 10 - 15 minutes then run a clean patch through, if you get blue or green your still fouled. 

Another issue is the bearing surface differences on the two bullets. If your rifle has the standard free bore, the longer bullets will most likely shoot better due to them hitting the lands before the bullet fully exits the case. However there are plenty of other bullets out there which have a flat based design instead of a boat tail which might work well also. those Hornady 139's usually have a pretty good BT on them and a short bearing surface in comparison to others.


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## THE JAMMER (Aug 1, 2005)

You said you bought a sub moa Weatherby 7mm mag. How do you know it was sub MOA? Have you shot sub moa groups with it before? What were you using? Did the guy who sold it to you say it was sub MOA? What was he using?? It's not sub MOA until it SHOOTS sub MOA.

We need a bit more info here.

I've had some really good luck lately loading accubonds. Getting great accuracy and performance on game.

THE JAMMER



HydraSports said:


> I have a sub moa Weatherby 7mm rem mag that I bought last year. Didn't really have time to finish the sighting to my satisfaction but did kill a deer at 225 yds, but it didn't hit where I was aiming. So this year I took it to the range to finish the job. I was/am shooting Hornady 139 gr ammo @ 3150 fps. The rifle was slinging lead all over the target. So I thought the barrel was hot, let it cool between every shot and it still slung it everywhere, as in 6 - 8" from point of aim. I am thinking the rifle is bad. A buddy had some handloads, 150 gr Accubonds @ 2800 fps???not sure of the exact velocity. Shot a 100 yd 4 shot group sub moa with three holes touching. My guess is that the rifle doesn't like the high velocity or that there is a wide variance between the bullet velocities within the box. Thinking the former because the factory ammo was both left and right of POA, as well as high and even with POA. Anybody have these wide variances in performance out of factory ammo. I have never seen it this bad before, but then again I have never owned a magnum rifle which I feel is the issue. Input???
> 
> P.S. Needless to say, I am getting a couple boxes of the Accubonds loaded as we speak.


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## strosfann (Jul 19, 2007)

> You said you bought a sub moa Weatherby 7mm mag. How do you know it was sub MOA? Have you shot sub moa groups with it before?


I believe he purchased a sub MOA model Vanguard rifle from Weatherby - they market some of their rifles as such and guarantee them to be so with certain premium ammo. They come with a target as proof.

It may just be that this rifle doesn't like the Hornady's or the 139 gr weight. I have a 300 WSM that is a tack driver with several 180 gr loads but it won't shoot the 165's I've tried into less than 2.5". You just have to figure out what your gun likes.


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

strosfann said:


> I believe he purchased a sub MOA model Vanguard rifle from Weatherby - they market some of their rifles as such and guarantee them to be so with certain premium ammo. They come with a target as proof.
> 
> It may just be that this rifle doesn't like the Hornady's or the 139 gr weight. I have a 300 WSM that is a tack driver with several 180 gr loads but it won't shoot the 165's I've tried into less than 2.5". You just have to figure out what your gun likes.


That is correct, test target included. I did shoot a sub moa group with the hand loads, as described. I just have never run across a rifle or load that slung the pattern like this one did. I am not a bench rest guy, just a hunter who likes his rifles to perform and was worried that this rifle was bad from the factory. Even if it wasn't a sub moa rifle as advertised, it should shoot a better pattern than 6" half circle around the point of aim.


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## THE JAMMER (Aug 1, 2005)

I'm getting confused here. strosman says that Weatherby guarantees MOA with "certain premium ammo." That sounds like it should be available off the shelf.

While Hydrasports says above that he shot moa with hand loads. What was that hand load that he shot moa with?? Unless it's not a hunting bullet, sounds like that's your load.

If weatherby guarantees moa with a certain ammo, buy that ammo.

What am I missing here????

THE JAMMER


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

Jammer, I am not sure about the sub moa guarantee from Weatherby, factory ammo or hand loads? I don't think you are missing anything other than my primary point was that the rifle slung the Hornady lead (which is a premium load as far as I know) all of the target and that I had never experienced that before. As I stated, I am having that particular hand load done now and will use it and try others. I guess more of a rant than anything. I guess I need to go back to the paperwork on the rifle and see what loads they guarantee with, and as you say, buy that ammo. Sorry for the confusion.


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## THE JAMMER (Aug 1, 2005)

There you go Hydro...

Going to Rock springs this weekend. Can't decide whether I want me and my kid to use mod 7 7mm-08 (140 accu), mod 7 308 (barnes 130 xxx), 1917 enfield, mauser k98, 1885 high wall 45-70, or my ak. Both the AK and the high wall shot lights out the other day at the range.

There will be some dead animals.

THE JAMMER


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## Cap-N-Red (May 21, 2004)

I'd check the bedding on the rifle if it was mine. If the ammo is the same that shot the tight group (same box or lot #) I'd think that something on the rifle had changed. Such as bedding scope mounts , rings or scope was the culprit


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

Cap-N-Red said:


> I'd check the bedding on the rifle if it was mine. If the ammo is the same that shot the tight group (same box or lot #) I'd think that something on the rifle had changed. Such as bedding scope mounts , rings or scope was the culprit


No, the factory Hornady shells shot terribly. The hand loads shot sub moa. I am going to float the barrel at a minimum. I did think about the heat from shooting and let it cool completely between shots and with the Hornady it still shot terrible. Shot 4 shots in rapid succession with the hand loads and it shot sub moa.


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## bspeckchaser (Jun 4, 2005)

Rifles and women all have personalities! What other people shoot in their rifle may not help you at all wih yours. Research the bullets you want to shoot and decide on one. Then reload for that bullet until you find the accuracy you want. Some bullets have a reputation for being very accurate when driven at the proper velocity. Then you can fine-tune the load by adjusting the seating depth.

Lots of information on internet that can help you reduce the amount of variables you will deal with. But the more you shoot the rifle the more you will learn about its "personality".

Good shooting!


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

bspeckchaser said:


> Rifles and women all have personalities! What other people shoot in their rifle may not help you at all wih yours. Research the bullets you want to shoot and decide on one. Then reload for that bullet until you find the accuracy you want. Some bullets have a reputation for being very accurate when driven at the proper velocity. Then you can fine-tune the load by adjusting the seating depth.
> 
> Lots of information on internet that can help you reduce the amount of variables you will deal with. But the more you shoot the rifle the more you will learn about its "personality".
> 
> Good shooting!


I don't think I was asking for a load that someone shoots, just making a point about that particular load in that particular rifle shot really bad and that the hand loads, that I now have a box of, shot really well. I have never had a premium factory load shoot that bad. I also have two 1/2 boxes of two different loads that I am going to try as soon as the weather slacks up some. I don't load, I am having it done. Personality??? I just want it to hit where I aim!!! LOL. I can do my part, I just need for it to do its part. Ain't lookin for a relationship!! LOL


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## CoastalOutfitters (Aug 20, 2004)

i shoot those same 139gr hornadys in my 700BDL 7mag , they shoot fine

might try something like

Federal Premium 7MM Rem. Mag. 150 Grains - Box 
150 Gr. Sierra GameKing BTSP - Vital Shok - 20 Count Box

Model: P7RD

does the target have any info about the ammo on it ?

no chance scope is loose or some other issue is there ?


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

Coastal, I am probably gonna stick with the hand loads. Shooting ballistic tips right now, but not too partial to them. Will probably find a more solid bullet and load that shoots well in this rifle.


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## spurgersalty (Jun 29, 2010)

I'm with the "certain rifles don't like certain bullets" guys. Bought a 700 in 243 win. It shot more of a pattern rather than a group with the Hornady light mags. Changed to the tamer Hornady custom, and now it drives tack.


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