# Proposed contest revisions...



## RustyBrown (May 29, 2004)

I've been thinking about revisions to our contest ever since I entered the TPF contest last month. I'm prepared to take ownership, but I'd like to make some changes and since this is a community board I wanted to open it up to see what you gals and guys think.

I'd like to see the contest set up where you would not know who submitted what image. In order to do this the entry image and text would have to be emailed or PM'd to me to post. It would also require removal of signatures watermarks and borders. 

In order not to be influenced in voting, I'd like the "votes so far" on the poll not to be available until the contest had closed.

I would like submitters not to be able to vote for their own work. We know you like it or you wouldn't have submitted it.  I also think you should be able to cast votes for the top three. Maybe post the winner and two runners up. In order to meet these requirement it would again call for votes to be sent to me rather than a poll. I sat out most of the contest this year and I assure you there's no conflict of interest.

Finally in order to discourage lobbying for votes and to encourage new participation, I'd like to see the voting limited only to the contest participants. I know some of you will see this as a discouragement to the non-photo board folks, but I want us to have a truly level playing field. I'll see to it that there's a post on the big board each month as well.

To recap here's what I'm thinking...

1st of the month...I post a Contest thread with submission rules and have it stickyed. I will also post an honorable mention thread with examples and a big board thread.

After that submissions will be sent to me and I will post them to stickied thread anonymously. Deadline will now be the 25th.

On the 26th I will PM the participants that voting in open and will close on the 31st. At that time you will also vote for the next month's topic. 

The winner an two runners up get posted on the 1st. then you find out not only what image won, but who took it as well.

All right - let me have it.


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## Charles Helm (Oct 22, 2004)

I think those could all be beneficial changes, particularly if the TTMB readers get advance notice of the contest and that they should enter if they want to vote. Of course I will have to try to guess who the photographers are for each photo!


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## RustyBrown (May 29, 2004)

*Ha!!*



Charles Helm said:


> I think those could all be beneficial changes, particularly if the TTMB readers get advance notice of the contest and that they should enter if they want to vote. Of course I will have to try to guess who the photographers are for each photo!


I'm sure everyone will want to know who's was what. I'll need to be sure to account for that.

Folks please don't think that I'm trying to impose my will here. When there original contest was set up and there were numerous discussions on things that could be done to make it better, I'm just trying some things on this transition to see if we can improve on the original setup.

Please speak up.


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## Shed Hunter (Mar 14, 2006)

*contest*

I think your ideas are fine. It would really level the playing field alright by not knowing who posted what. Having it only for contestents is fine also. I believe more people will enter so they can vote. Good ideas!
SH


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## richg99 (Aug 21, 2004)

I'm on a couple of other photo boards, and the concept that only the participants can vote parallels what is done there. Since the other board's photos all have 
"IDs" though, I do get the feeling it is a popularity contest, instead of what picture is truly the best. So, I like the idea of "blind" voting.

I think one board assigns three "votes" for first place; two "votes" for second place and one "vote" for third place. 

They do, however, go through the actual end of the month, and get the voting and results the first week of the next month. It all evens out in the end... no matter what set of dates you use. 

I like the proposed changes.. regards, Rich


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## Dorado-Mahi (May 23, 2004)

I like the new changes and would only add a few more items.

#1 - You must be a registered member and submit your own photograph. Friends and family member's photographs are still welcomed but they must now be registered to enter them.

#2 - That the photo entered must be taken during the month of the contest unless the contest calls for past images to be used... example "Best Photo of the Year" or "Best all Time Fishing/Sunset/Sunrise Photos".

#3 - Since anonymity will be included, I don't see a problem with any other 2cool board members voting as long as they are registered.

#4 - That you (Rusty) are allowed to participate and include your images in each and every contest.

Thanks Rusty for taking charge of the Monthly Photo Contest.


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## Koru (Sep 25, 2006)

RustyBrown said:


> I've been thinking about revisions to our contest ever since I entered the TPF contest last month. I'm prepared to take ownership, but I'd like to make some changes and since this is a community board I wanted to open it up to see what you gals and guys think.


Thanks for taking on a huge job on behalf of us all and thanks for hearing our thoughts. 



> I'd like to see the contest set up where you would not know who submitted what image. In order to do this the entry image and text would have to be emailed or PM'd to me to post. It would also require removal of signatures watermarks and borders.


Sounds good to me. A thought though, some may be worried about copyright issues (with their work unmarked it is open slather for theft as this is not a closed to the world forum).



> In order not to be influenced in voting, I'd like the "votes so far" on the poll not to be available until the contest had closed.


Agreed.



> I would like submitters not to be able to vote for their own work. We know you like it or you wouldn't have submitted it.  I also think you should be able to cast votes for the top three. Maybe post the winner and two runners up. In order to meet these requirement it would again call for votes to be sent to me rather than a poll. I sat out most of the contest this year and I assure you there's no conflict of interest.


Casting three votes sounds reasonable, that can be done in one PM for you.

Can you split up your job so that someone else can help you (not the sticky side, but the gathering votes etc)? I could help if you wouldn't mind me taking a day or two (I'd do it between work hours etc.).

re: not voting on own work - I don't know if this website has the ability, but some have an ability to be able to post the voters' names beside the poll percentages. Maybe Mont would know if that's possible here (it's an admin-dis/able feature on some sites). It's a deterent to vote for self. (But I don't think any of us here in the photography forum would bother doing that anyway.)



> Finally in order to discourage lobbying for votes and to encourage new participation, I'd like to see the voting limited only to the contest participants. I know some of you will see this as a discouragement to the non-photo board folks, but I want us to have a truly level playing field. I'll see to it that there's a post on the big board each month as well.


I think there is enough diversity of interest _and_ ability within the probable participants to ensure we have a fair contest. Maybe add some rules to the thread posted in the other forum/s so we're all straight up and understanding before entering the contest.



> To recap here's what I'm thinking...
> 
> 1st of the month...I post a Contest thread with submission rules and have it stickyed. I will also post an honorable mention thread with examples and a big board thread.
> 
> ...


1. In what form would you prefer the photos be sent to you? Just a link, or a resized image url, or what?

2. Will you give suggestions for the next month's topic, or would you take suggestions at the same time we PM you our votes?

3. Will you be only 'showing' the votes for the first three photos, or for all photos entered into the contest?

4. Would you like participants email addresses in order to mass email each participant or is it sufficient to PM (i.e. which is easier for you?).

I think that what you're suggesting is a good idea. Some will like it, some won't. The thing is, it's a contest and it needed to be tweaked a little in order for it to run as close to normal contests as possible. It's more fair, and yet retains the fun element that's necessary to keep here.

rosesm


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## Charles Helm (Oct 22, 2004)

Dorado-Mahi said:


> I#2 - That the photo entered must be taken during the month of the contest unless the contest calls for past images to be used... example "Best Photo of the Year" or "Best all Time Fishing/Sunset/Sunrise Photos".


I would say that if in a specific month the topic were more like an assignment, then as a result you would get a current picture. If each month they have to be new that is good because it forces us to go out and take pictures. It is bad for lazy deskbound people like me who may not be able to do something new that month, and potentially limiting if the topic requires some type of locale or element that is not available all the time (water, mountains, sports, etc.).


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## TXPalerider (May 21, 2004)

Dorado-Mahi said:


> I like the new changes and would only add a few more items.
> 
> ...............
> #2 - That the photo entered must be taken during the month of the contest unless the contest calls for past images to be used... example "Best Photo of the Year" or "Best all Time Fishing/Sunset/Sunrise Photos".
> ..........Thanks Rusty for taking charge of the Monthly Photo Contest.


I think this might severely limit participation. Example: I occasionally enter a photo, yet I'm not enough of a photography buff to take specific pics on a monthly basis. Usually, anything I enter is a "lucky" shot (read accident ) anyway and probably doesn't have a real shot to win. But, I like to participate.Now, if your intent is to limit participation to "photographers" only, then I think this is fine. Just my 2 cents. Carry on.


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## RustyBrown (May 29, 2004)

*Keep it coming...*

First of all thanks for the replies so far, here's a few more thoughts...

_*I think one board assigns three "votes" for first place; two "votes" for second place and one "vote" for third place.*_

What do you guys think of this system?

*You must be a registered member and submit your own photograph. Friends and family member's photographs are still welcomed but they must now be registered to enter them.*

How is a non-original image "registered"? Also doesn't everyone have to be a registered member now? I'm just trying to get up to speed here.

*That the photo entered must be taken during the month of the contest unless the contest calls for past images to be used... example "Best Photo of the Year" or "Best all Time Fishing/Sunset/Sunrise Photos".*

We've always encouraged "new" imagery in the contest, but not everyone shoots as much as us freaks. Maybe we alternate this criteria each month. If you're shooting new stuff it's not an issue and we're throwing a bone to the normal people. What do you think?

*That you (Rusty) are allowed to participate and include your images in each and every contest.*
I can post anytime as well as provide examples. I stepped back months ago on this. It's no big deal.

*some may be worried about copyright issues...*

An image is yours once you take it. The signatures and watermarks are reminders to those that might borrow images, and it's happen here before and to me somewhere else. Bad things happen to those that borrow...ask the guy tht stole Cutters deer pic. :rotfl: I digress...

I'll figure out the submission thing. If I use my email as opposed to PMing then people that have sizing issues won't have a problem. I'll make sure the instructions are clear.

PM me topic ideas anytime. A poll will determine next month's topic between 25-31 of each month.

Showing votes...do we show them all? top 20%? none? If no one has an opinion we'll do them all.


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## GoingCoastal (May 24, 2004)

I like most the Idea's. 
Not knowing who took what is a good idea to level the playing field ,as well as not voting for your own photo - personaly I dont think I ever voted for mine. 
That alone should make it much better. 

I think participation is going to drop due to some of the restrictions. must of us are amatures (very very amature-me) and really I think we should be trying to Involve everyone ( 2cool land) and boost participation (allot of ttmb'ers dont even know about Photo page) .
I mean its only a 2cool contest. no real prize other than job well done. 

Peace out. Dave

and Rusty you should HAVE to submit a photo everytime.


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## Guest (Jan 10, 2007)

My thoughts go along with anonymous submissions, but I think the voting polls should show who voted for what and display a running total. I also think that voting should be open to any 2Cooler. ~ I also believe that restricting photos to those of the last month will reduce the number of entries.



:rybka:


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## Slip (Jul 25, 2006)

As a newbe to the photo portion of the web site, I think all voting and photos should be annonamous to keep any buddy votes out of it as best as possible anyway. I like the idea of being able to use photos not necessarily out of the contest month as I also don't take enough to submit most ever month, but no problem either way, I just won't post if this becomes the rule for that month. I like the contest and have only did it once this past month for the first time, but is kinda fun to see how others feel about what I see as a good photo. 

I do think you should be able to participate even though you run the thing as if we do want to compete, we want to compete with all available sources as it is only in fun anyway. If you are headin this up, I feel you should be able to participate, but I know you would probably want to protect yourself from any ill feelings just in case, but you should still be able to participate without any reservations. Thanks,


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## MT Stringer (May 21, 2004)

I like the ideas so far. I like the idea of alternating (or on occasion) the photos from monthly to "year to date" or something like that. It can be tough on shift workers to get out and shoot, especially when you have to narrow it down to a specific day (ex: Wednesday) and the weather turns krummy. I'm fixin' to start a string of 7 days straight (4 days & 3 nights) so it will next weekend before I get any time off. Until then, about all I'll be doing is working, eating, sleeping and kicking the cat! Just kidding on the cat part .

I would also like to see everyone on the board allowed to vote, especially if the pics are shown annomously. I think if we get more people involved, we will no doubt get some new blood posting pics.

Keep up the good work, Rusty. You're doing a fine job.
Mike


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## MsAddicted (Jan 25, 2005)

Thanks Rusty!

1. Anonymous: *yes*
2. no percentages visible while the contest is underway: *yes*
3. not voting for yourself: *yes*. I often dont anyway.
4. voting for three: *yes*, I have wished for that in many of these contests.
5. close the voting to participants only: *no*, it will discourage interest I think.
6. the pics must be taken within the month: *no*, too hard for many to do although every other month would be ok.
7. pics must be your own only: *yes*
8. deadline the 25th: yikes! *yes*


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## chicapesca (Jun 7, 2004)

Wow Rusty, thank you for taking this on! I have never entered a photo contest before 2Cool, so I have no idea how others are run. I agree with most everything except for the "photos must be from that month". Pic a subject, and if someone doesn't have a photo that fits and they want to enter, they can go out and take one. After a few months of dry runs and working out the kinks of the contests, then maybe do an assignment type contest, or something like that. I also think that the contests should be open to any 2Cool member, and that any 2Cool member should be able to vote. This will keep a higher interest in the contests. And lastly, this is a fishing site, so if most, or at least a lot of the catagories could be about the coast, fishing, beaches, etc., it might make it easier for people to enter. You da man Rusty!


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## Pocketfisherman (May 30, 2005)

Rusty,
I like it, those are all good ideas to me with the exception of shooting the picture in the same month of the contest. With my schedule, that's not very workable. Maybe setting a time limit on the age of the image, IE, shot within a year of the contest?


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## grayfish (Jul 31, 2005)

Rusty, and others. Most are well aware that I lurk on the Photography forum and do not ever post pictures. I have no real say as to what contest rules should be. That said, I do feel that limiting photos to ones taken with in the last 30 days severely limits participants. Those of amateur status my only get one fantastic shot out of a hundred photos. It also limits you on your subject matter of the contest. For example, fondest memory could be any time frame. You may however wish to run some month contest with such a rule.

I also want to thank you for offering to take over the Contest management. 

grayfish


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## pelican (May 22, 2004)

Thanks, Rusty, for taking on this task. I know how much work AND fun it can be. You've come up with some great ideas and suggestions to carry on the contests and make them even better than before. (I'll have to reread the thread and everyone's responses again before I comment on specifics.) I hope to be taking a lot more diverse and interesting photos in the months ahead.
Bob


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## Koru (Sep 25, 2006)

Grayfish has triggered a thought for me.

He might not post photos (thus might not enter the contest) but I would still welcome his critique and voting should he wish to.

I am sorry but I haven't noticed others who are here but not posting photos. Anyone know of anyone?


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## richg99 (Aug 21, 2004)

OK ...OK..... I'm now convinced, after reading a lot of the comments here, that voting should be open to anyone who wants to vote. As long as the pictures are anonymous..it may engender even more interest from the WHOLE 2cool group. 

I'll bet lots of guys/gals would take a few more pictures after they had some input into a monthly contest. Might triple the membership here. So, please change my vote for "voting open to all" as long as the photos are anonymous. Rich


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## grayfish (Jul 31, 2005)

Koru said:


> Grayfish has triggered a thought for me.
> 
> He might not post photos (thus might not enter the contest) but I would still welcome his critique and voting should he wish to.
> 
> I am sorry but I haven't noticed others who are here but not posting photos. Anyone know of anyone?


 
Karen, I do appreciate your thoughts. I have no problem with not voting in the contest. I am not a photographer, by any stretch of the imagination. A rule that allows only those who post entries to vote could be a way to encourage more entrants from the other boards. The contest is not a place to critique others works as far as I am concerned and should be just what it is; a contest. Maybe all comments on the contest entries should be eliminated. That is up to those who participate.



All other: I don't think the rules will be set in stone. This is a different approach and I am sure things will change as time goes on. I say give it a chance


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## Third Wave (May 24, 2004)

I'm game for what ever is decided. Someone lays down the rules and I will comply. I guess that comes from my prior military training. Don't question orders.


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## RustyBrown (May 29, 2004)

richg99 said:


> OK ...OK..... I'm now convinced, after reading a lot of the comments here, that voting should be open to anyone who wants to vote. As long as the pictures are anonymous..it may engender even more interest from the WHOLE 2cool group.
> 
> I'll bet lots of guys/gals would take a few more pictures after they had some input into a monthly contest. Might triple the membership here. So, please change my vote for "voting open to all" as long as the photos are anonymous. Rich


Rich is the first one I don't want seeing the votes as they go :rotfl: Just kidding buddy!


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## RustyBrown (May 29, 2004)

*Excuse me?*

*I mean its only a 2cool contest. no real prize other than job well done.*

Blasphemy! :rotfl:


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## WhiteH20_Princess (Mar 30, 2006)

SIMPLY PUT!! Ms.Addicted! Agree totally with this one........the only extra thought is that can't make the rules too many or too complicated or people will just not participate...........you know the what this stands for right? K.I
.S.S. :biggrin: Thanks for volunteering to do this RUSTY!



MsAddicted said:


> Thanks Rusty!
> 
> 1. Anonymous: *yes*
> 2. no percentages visible while the contest is underway: *yes*
> ...


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## activescrape (Jan 8, 2006)

I always just voted for the one I liked best anyway, although it was a tossup many times.


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## Bay Gal (Jun 1, 2004)

*I started* to agree with Rich99... open voting for all, BUT the pics are anonomous. You still run the risk of PMs sent to friends for extra votes, SO I'm sure the ol' popularity thing will occasionally rear it's ugly head and make a mockery out of the contest.

First choice, would be anonomous pics and only entrants can vote. I mean really...don't you want the opinion and favor of your fellow photographers, versus the flipant opinion of a casual passerby? If people want to vote, then let them (have them) participate.

I'm all for more participation, but a casual vote with no 'steaks in the game' is meaningless to me.

I value the opinion and votes of fellow participants MORE than an open contest.


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## MsAddicted (Jan 25, 2005)

Yeah I thought about that too Bay Gal but I voted for open voting because 
a) I thought it seemed like it might be a nightmare to keep track of because someone would have to know who was voting versus who had posted pics and 
b) it seems like it would be a bit more intimidating to the average joe who might never enter a photo because its "photographers" only (I certainly dont fancy myself a photographer but I am comfortable enough down here to enter one...others might not be if they arent lured in to vote from time to time.) 
c) what if only 5 people enter? Then you have 5 voters and maybe a 5 way tie.


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## ChickFilet (May 20, 2004)

I am another frequent lurker and seldom (if I ever have) poster on this board. I really enjoy seeing the work here and like to vote in the contests. FWIW, I would like to be able to continue doing that.


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## Too Tall (May 21, 2004)

FishinChick© said:


> I am another frequent lurker and seldom (if I ever have) poster on this board. I really enjoy seeing the work here and like to vote in the contests. FWIW, I would like to be able to continue doing that.


Same here.

It is the Honor system and would pretty sad if someone actually did what Bay Gal suggested. I can see that happening though. I very rarely post pictures but do enjoy looking at them and voting for the one I like.


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## RustyBrown (May 29, 2004)

*Thanks everyone*

Based on this thread and the number of PMs I got last night, it's obvious that there's a big interest in the continuation of the contest. I think most of the issues at this point have been decided. Understand just by reading this thread that there's no way everyone can get what they want in all regards.

I have decided to keep public voting for the time being. This will be on a month to month basis depending on issues that may arise. My decison was based on maximizing involvement, our friends who post, but don't enter the contest and lurkers. There were at least three newbies on the board this week - a few that found the photo forum through the contest.

For my friends that sided with my initial post as far as limiting who could vote, you make very good arguments, but this is still a public board and I don't want to make anyone feel like they can't participate as long a we can keep a level playing field. If it doesn't work then we'll fix it.

I will also reserve the right to ask that you cast a different vote should there be unusual activity - coincidental or otherwise. We have plenty of talented people so like the greenies we need to spread the wealth around. If you feel that strongly about an image, then it should be able to carry itself on the rest of the votes. I do not intend to meddle at all, but I will and if it's coincidental please don't take it personally.

I want to apologize that we have to have a "dark" conversation here or rules to ensure fairness.

New contest and rules starts tonight :bounce:


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## MsAddicted (Jan 25, 2005)

Sounds great Rusty, thank you for all the work.


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## Charles Helm (Oct 22, 2004)

RustyBrown said:


> New contest and rules starts tonight :bounce:


Thanks for pulling this together.


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## Koru (Sep 25, 2006)

> You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to RustyBrown again.


My offer of help is there always. If you need it, just shout.


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## chicapesca (Jun 7, 2004)

Thanks again Rusty! :biggrin:


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## RustyBrown (May 29, 2004)

*and there off...*

Looks like the contest is up and running. I'm going to get Koru's number as we're going to locate our complaint department in New Zealand...:cheers:


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## grayfish (Jul 31, 2005)

RustyBrown said:


> Looks like the contest is up and running. I'm going to get Koru's number as we're going to locate our complaint department in New Zealand...:cheers:


Direct Calls Only

Thanks Rusty.


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## pelican (May 22, 2004)

RustyBrown said:


> Looks like the contest is up and running. I'm going to get Koru's number as we're going to locate our complaint department in New Zealand...:cheers:


LOL ... I think complaints should have to be filed in person.  Thanks again, Rusty!


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## Koru (Sep 25, 2006)

Brilliant idea Bob. When can I expect to see you? 

Thanks for the double hourly rate, Rusty.


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## Guest (Jan 11, 2007)

Koru said:


> Brilliant idea Bob. When can I expect to see you?
> 
> Thanks for the double hourly rate, Rusty.


 Get a 900 number and charge them!


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## GoingCoastal (May 24, 2004)

Thanks Rusty for heading this up. Intereasting topic this month.

Dave


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## galbayfisher (May 28, 2004)

*One more idea!*

In order to give us more time to shoot for the contest, why don't you take the top 11 suggestions for contest themes and apply them to the rest of the year. Post the list and then when folks are out and about, they may actually be at the right time and place to take a shot for a given month. Gives the photographer more opportunities to get a good shot for a given monthly contest with the limited time they have.

My two cents!!

PS. Thanks for taking this on.


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## richg99 (Aug 21, 2004)

Rusty, with regard to Galbayfisher's suggestion of posting the themes for the whole year...that is the same process that another site I visit uses. By now, all of the themes for the year have already been posted up. rich


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