# Youth Rifle Set Up Question



## bmfireh2o (Feb 9, 2013)

Ok, I wanna start by saying I'm not looking for a "debate" of any type..
I'm perfectly aware with shot placement of any caliber will drop a deer..
BUT.... We are talking about small youth 10-12yrs old that don't always shoot spot on....
MY QUESTION IS... I would like to move them up to a 270 or a 308 but curious to see others ideas on set up..
Bull Barrel
Barrel length
Stock(preferably) moveable
muzzle breaks????
I really don't know what I want or want to do just looking and thinking about different set ups..
Thanks,,


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## Sgrem (Oct 5, 2005)

Bull barrels are for bench rest prairie dog shooting. Not a fan for everyday hunting.

Browning Micro in 7mm08 or 270 with Hornady Custom Lite reduced recoil loads will take small - medium size game at any ethical kiddo distance. They are nice and compact. Kids (or adults) getting into and out of a blind a 21" barrel is very nice and much easier to handle in tight quarters. Short barrel length will limit your muzzle velocity some which limits ultra long range work. But for ethical hunting distance you aren't handicapping yourself at all.

Many manufacturers offer a compact or mountain platform. Perfect.

Not a fan of AR platform for younger or inexperienced hunters.

Practice with them to do whatever is necessary to AVOID muzzlebreaks at all costs. Don't get one. I have never seen a need or any benefit in a hunting rifle. Ever.


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## Chase4556 (Aug 26, 2008)

bmfireh2o said:


> Ok, I wanna start by saying I'm not looking for a "debate" of any type..
> I'm perfectly aware with shot placement of any caliber will drop a deer..
> BUT.... We are talking about small youth 10-12yrs old that don't always shoot spot on....
> MY QUESTION IS... I would like to move them up to a 270 or a 308 but curious to see others ideas on set up..
> ...


308 with reduced loads to start would be good. I donâ€™t own a 270, but I believe their recoil is rather mild. So both could be options.

If it were me, Iâ€™d be looking at a compact or youth model in 243, 7mm-08, 25-06 or your 270 and 308 options. All solid performing, proven and easy to find ammo for.

Barrel length or it being a bull barrel isnâ€™t a huge deal IMO, but for a smaller/younger shooter the youth or compact models should come with a shorter barrel making it a little easier to handle. You can always put a regular size stock on it down the road if need be. A bull barrel will add some weight, which helps with recoil but now the gun is heavier. Your style of hunting will dictate if carrying the slightly heavier rifle is worth it.

I wouldnâ€™t add a muzzle break. All the calibers you would look at are mild enough, but a break makes them WAY louder. May cause flinching and someone can shy away from the muzzle blast.


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## Csafisher (Nov 16, 2010)

Tikka t3x lite or hunter in 6.5 CM or 308. 7mm-08 would also be great.


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

Chase4556 said:


> If it were me, Iâ€™d be looking at a compact or youth model in 243, 7mm-08, 25-06 or your 270 and 308 options. All solid performing, proven and easy to find ammo for.
> 
> Barrel length or it being a bull barrel isnâ€™t a huge deal IMO, but for a smaller/younger shooter the youth or compact models should come with a shorter barrel making it a little easier to handle.
> 
> I wouldnâ€™t add a muzzle break. All the calibers you would look at are mild enough, but a break makes them WAY louder. May cause flinching and someone can shy away from the muzzle blast.


I don't think a 270 is a good option for a youth, it is among the top of the ratings for velocity/energy for a rifle, so the recoil is pretty high. 
Agree that heavy barrels or muzzle brake aren't needed or wanted in a youth rifle. If you can do it, a suppressor serves to reduce both recoil and sound, good thing.


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## Chase4556 (Aug 26, 2008)

RB II said:


> I don't think a 270 is a good option for a youth, it is among the top of the ratings for velocity/energy for a rifle, so the recoil is pretty high.
> Agree that heavy barrels or muzzle brake aren't needed or wanted in a youth rifle. If you can do it, a suppressor serves to reduce both recoil and sound, good thing.


Yeah I donâ€™t own one, so I couldnâ€™t comment on what the recoil is like.


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## DCW (Aug 3, 2005)

I own and shoot a 243,270&308. I rarely shoot the 308 because of the recoil. I usualy shoot my 243. My grandson is using his grandmaws 243 that has a short stock and barrel. A 243 with a 100gr corelock is mighty leathel. For me a 270 and 308 are just to much gun for a child 10 or 11 yr old. Start them on a lighter caliber and go up as they grow. Don't want to make the gunshy with to much noise and recoil.


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

I am currently working on a Savage 111 in 243. Making it into a gun for my grand daughter. The oldest is 5 and pretty skittish, so not shooting rifles yet, but does shoot her pink BB gun. So working our way up the ladder and have plenty of time before she will shoot it. 
While I do not think a 243 is an optimal deer caliber, it is certainly a tried and true performer with proper shot placement and bullet selection. The recoil is as light as a true deer caliber can be, so a solid choice from that perspective. 
The 111 has wooden stock and standard weight barrel, as I remember it is 22". My plan is to refinish the stock, maybe FDE color or possibly something pink, maybe dipped in the Muddy Girl pattern. Barrel and action are blue and in good shape, so like remain as such. 

I agree with DCW above, a normal "hunting" weight rifle in 308 has a lot of recoil, IME.

I have a Rem 700 varmint in 223 that will likely be the first high power "bench/target" rifle for my grand daughter. I say bench as it is too heavy for most youth to handle in a hunting situation. It has a 26" heavy contour fluted barrel, so recoil is almost zero, little more than a 22 mag.

No matter which rifle any youth shoots, hearing protection is an absolute must, so noise is not a huge factor. But a muzzle brake takes the noise to a different level, the concussion of a brake can be as scary as the noise.


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## Sgrem (Oct 5, 2005)

I have hunted with 9 year old lil girly girls shooting 300 win mag.

Any of those with reduced recoil loads just about any kiddo can handle when introduced properly.

The 308 is the parent case for 308, 7mm08, 260, 243 etc all have the same case / case powder capacity. Therefore theoretically with same grain bullet and same weight rifle all would theoretically have same recoil.

Any of the reduced recoil offerings are very manageable and easily upgradeable by simply moving up to full house loads.


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

Recoil energy of 308 is almost twice that of the 243.
https://www.snipercountry.com/243-vs-308/


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## Sgrem (Oct 5, 2005)

Yes that why I said theoretically with same grain bullets etc....

55 or 100gr in 243 vs 168 or 180gr in 308 is significant difference.


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

Ok, I guess that is true, but real world I don't know of any 100 grain .308 bullets or 168 grain .243 bullets. Standard ammo for each, the 308 recoil is about twice the 243. And a 300 WM (shooting real world ammo) is about 50% more than the 308.

I have never really considered reduced recoil ammo as a viable alternative. Unless a single caliber is all one has available, going to a lighter caliber is a better more consistent result producing solution, IMO.


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## sea sick (Feb 9, 2006)

My son is 10 now. He started with a .22 at age 6.
Next was a Rem 700 AAC-SD in .223 
After that he was shooting my Rock river in 6.8spc.
He also shoots my 6.5 CM. The rifle has a carbon fiber 20inch barrel very light gun.
All rifles are suppressed, no muzzle breaks.
I have a Remington 5R with a 24in barrel. That rifle has alittle to much kick for him to shoot and shoot well. 
Would I put a 300win mag in front of him? No, that's ridiculous and dangerous. FOR HIM.
Maybe your daughter at the age of 9 or girly girl or what ever can handle it, but my kiddo can't.

So for my kid, more range time. After he was proficient in 1 he moved up to the next caliber. 
Good shot placement and comfortable with the rifle is what I was looking for before he gets to the field with it.

My buddy has a 25-06 in the browning stalker. Thing stomps when the trigger is pulled.

I'd pass on the 308 or 270 calibers for beginners. As mentioned before, managed recoil rounds work well. As far as the heavy barrel, it absorbs some of the kick as well. 
A good but pad on the stock works wonders to.


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## Sgrem (Oct 5, 2005)

Yep. Whatever works best for your kids and your situation. Sharing my experience. I do not recommend anything larger than reduced recoil calibers I mentioned. The 300 win mag girl was what worked for that family. My wife and daughter are both very small frame girls. Under 100 pounds. Wife shoots a 270. Daughter shoots a 7mm08. Both use Hornady Custom Lite reduced recoil ammo. Both are deadly and have never noticed the recoil. A 20 gauge is worse. 

They both also shoot 6.5 Grendel. Which the ballistics of Grendel, reduced recoil 270, and reduced recoil 7mm-08 are very similar. Hunting results has been identical and excellent in Texas at any ethical hunting distance.

When I was doing research generally speaking of all the reduced recoil factory ammo the Hornady were the best performing but also the most recoil (of all the reduced recoil loads). Fusion Lite were in the middle for performance and recoil. Remington Managed recoil were the least recoil and a lil less performance.


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## Salty Dog (Jan 29, 2005)

bmfireh2o said:


> Ok, I wanna start by saying I'm not looking for a "debate" of any type..
> I'm perfectly aware with shot placement of any caliber will drop a deer..
> BUT.... We are talking about small youth 10-12yrs old that don't always shoot spot on....
> MY QUESTION IS... I would like to move them up to a 270 or a 308 but curious to see others ideas on set up..
> ...


First thing is get them shooting a .223 or similar a whole bunch in the off season. It'll help a ton all the way around. They will shoot more accurately and will be less afraid of the shot. Cheap to shoot too. Before my son started hunting we went and shot .223s every week for several months and I really think it was an important step for him. He has shot deer with a .243 and 7mm-08 and on occasion with my .270. We have never had an issue with his shooting on game. He's never had any issues with flinching. I still say it was all the trigger time with the .223 that made him the shot he is on game. It set him up for success from the get go and gave him a ton of confidence.

When he was little we used the Remington Managed Recoil loads in his 7mm-08 and they killed great. They are basically a 200 yard load. For 95% of the deer hunting we do in Texas it's fine. He killed lots of critters with it and those loads just flat out knocked 'em dead without destroying tons of meat.

If I was doing it over again today I'd probably buy him a 6.5 Creedmoor. Little more bullet than a .243 but low recoil, mild with lots of great ammo options. It's something they can shoot for many years. Another great option is a 6.5 Grendel. Look up the little Howa mini action bolt guns in the 6.5 Grendel. To me that would be a heck of a good first deer rifle for smaller kids. Small, light and mild recoil but still shooting a 120+ gr bullet.

The other way you could go is to go with an AR platform which gives you easily changeable stock length and a milder perceived recoil. You can get a 6.5 Grendel, .243 or 6.5 creedmoor. The down side is increased cost and a rifle that is a little more complicated to operate. Still can be a good choice.

There really isn't a wrong answer. I just think the best answer includes lots of practice ahead of time and a mild recoiling load whether it is a reduced recoil load or a milder chambering.


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## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

Not to argue, but bullet weight definitely affects recoil, simple physics. I could tell the difference between 110 grain and 130 grain in a .270 Win. Texas deer are usually not that big, unless old bucks in South Texas. Bullets are so well constructed these days if you buy one designed for your purpose that lighter bullets will still penetrate well. 



Action length should be considered. Bore diameters of .257, .264, .277 or .284 would be perfect.


25-06 with 100 grain
.270 with 110 grain
7mm-08 120 grain


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## Nutnhoney (Jan 7, 2017)

Mentioned once above was the. 6.5 Grendel. Mild recoil but kills well, and shoots flat. In the AR platform the rifle is lite and the stock adjusts for the childâ€™s growth. Check out a modestly priced upper from Palmetto State Armory.
Another option in a quality bolt gun is the Grendel in a CZ carbine. Howa also makes one for less money.


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## fishit (Jul 12, 2007)

Bolt action 6.5 creedmoor with muzzle brake or 6.8 spc ar15. I did muzzle brakes for years with my kids. Just teaches to always use hearing protection. Forces really.


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## Hunter682 (Nov 7, 2014)

I set my son up with a Remington Lady youth in 243(100 grain) at age 7, switched to a 270 at age 11. Had shot all deer in south Texas with the 243 with no problems. The ammo is easy to find in a 243 and 270 at small stores if you forget your ammo also. 
Agree, stay away from the 308. He still uses the 243 as a back up and now he is a guide. 
Good Luck


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## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

You will always get a debate on subjects like these, it's just a natural occurrence lol.

Small frame you said so stay away from .270's .308's etc. Salty mentioned the .223 and while it's not a caliber I like it would work in teaching the fundamentals that your child needs for shooting center fire rifles and live targets. a 22" to 24" barrel would work.

The .22-250 is another good choice as is the 6.5 CM which has mild recoil.

Stay away from muzzle brakes. They're loud and obnoxious and your child WILL forget to put in ear plugs or put on muffs one day and his or her hearing will take a hit.

In the end it's your child and you want him or her to enjoy shooting and hunting so don't screw it up with something that they do not enjoy shooting. If it's too loud or kicks too hard they won't have a good time. 

TH


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## jetbuilt (May 4, 2010)

I'm really digging the CZ 527 Youth Carbine chambered in 7.62x39 right now. When the time comes that the kiddo outgrows the short LOP, the stock can be replaced with the standard 527 stock. 
https://cz-usa.com/product/cz-527-youth-carbine-223-rem/
https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog...Centerfire/CZ-USA+CZ527+CARBINE+7.62X39+YOUTH


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## tshort (Sep 2, 2016)

First, there is no 'right' answer. But here's what I've done with my son and it has worked well.

I started him at age 8 on a bolt action .223/5.56 with a muzzle brake. The important thing was that we ALWAYS wear good hearing protection. I think the sound/percussion is actually what scares kids the most, not the kick...I'll explain later. He killed a ram and whitetail buck with that gun and enjoyed it.

I then moved him up to a 6.5 Grendel (Howa mini-bolt action) this year at age 10. No brake but I intend to add a suppressor (it comes with a threaded barrel). He's killed a blackbuck and a whitetail doe with it.

He also shot a suppressed .308 this year and said it was definitely more kick than his other 2 guns but didn't bother him (my opinion was because of the reduced noise).

Just as important, find a youth-sized stock so the length of pull fits well. If they can't reach the trigger and/or have a hard time seeing through the scope they don't feel comfortable, don't make good shots, and probably won't like it.

My $.02.


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## Jaysand247 (Aug 19, 2012)

I started my boys out shooting a scoped 22 and 5. They both shot their first deer with a 243 at age 7. I didnt let them shoot the 243 before hand because I didn't want them to expect recoil of any kind.. my oldest is 14 and he killed a nice buck at 220 yards this year with my 270.. my opinion is make sure they shoot well before taking a shot at a deer then it won't matter the caliber. 
I bought both my kids a youth model 243 one is a Remington the other the ruger american.. both are nice guns and something they will hand down to their kids.. oldest shoots a 6.5 cm now youngest is still on the 243. Out of the 15 or so deer they have shot we have never lost one..


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## bwhntr31 (Sep 14, 2014)

My personal favorite deer cartridge is the 7mm-08. I have a Remington Model 7 SS/Synthetic that the whole family can shoot. Myself, my wife, and both boys (10 & 12), have all harvested with it.


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## Southern Dreams (Jun 17, 2016)

I am a Huntmaster for the Texas Youth Hunting Program. I have taken 100s of kids on hunts and most of them are shooting 243. I perfore 270 with manage recoil shells it takes a lot of the kick away. Kids do grow up. I bought youth model for my kids and after 2 years they were to small. 

anyone that needs a place to take a child hunting please look us up at TYHP.org


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