# 2011 HARC Meeting and Schedule



## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

First off, the schedule has been approved by all involved parties and is as follows:

Round #1: January 22nd, Vertigo Raceway
Round #2: February 19th, River Track
Round #3: March 19th, Mike's Hobby Shop (Gulf Coast Raceway)
Round #4: April 16th, Vertigo Raceway
Round #5: May 21st, River Track
Round #6: June 18th, Mike's Hobby Shop (Gulf Coast Raceway)
Round #7: July 23rd, Vertigo Raceway
Round #8: August 20th, River Track
Round #9: September 17th, Mike's Hobby Shop (Gulf Coast Raceway)
Round #10: October 22nd, Vertigo Raceway
Round #11: November 19th, River Track
Round #12: December 10th, Mike's Hobby Shop (Gulf Coast Raceway)

Sometimes things happen and the dates change every so often. But I've gotten pretty good over the last few years at making sure that minimal changes occur.


We will be holding our annual meeting before the 2011 racing season at Mike's Hobby Shop from 8:30AM - 9:30AM in the pit area on the morning of the Toys-For-Tots Race (December 11th). This is your chance to voice your opinions on the way we operate throughout this year, so I can't hear your opinions if you're not there to state them! We will be reviewing the rules for 2011 (no major changes) and will be discussing the possibility of having different start times at the winter races vs. the summer races. The track will be closed until 9:30AM so that we will be able to hear ourselves! Again, if you have any ideas/suggestions, I am open to anything that will grow our entries numbers and increase the fun factor!

Looking forward to the TFT race and next year! Hope to see you there!


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## nik77356 (Jun 8, 2007)

I will be at the meeting CV!


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## JANKEII (Feb 2, 2006)

Thanks CV


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## jasonwipf (Feb 23, 2009)

CV, are your changes on the table for 2011 going to be posted before hand so we might formulate our thoughts and opinions coming into the meeting?


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

Only changes I've thought about are:
1) Moving to a 10AM start time in the winter and a 2PM start time in the summer
2) Moving to a Noon start time across the board
3) Giving bonus points for attending a Texas RC Pro Series Race

That's all I've got so far...........I think what we worked with last year was pretty good, so I don't plan on a lot of changes. The classes need to really stay the same for this year, so again, I'm open to just about any idea. Just keep in mind, that what might be good for one specific person, might not be good for the whole or the long run.


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## JANKEII (Feb 2, 2006)

Be more strict on Truggy electric pitting.


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## tebone626 (Apr 25, 2010)

actaully, courtney has pitted for me just about every race, and im pretty sure he has done some of the other e truggy guys also, to try and make it more fair. hopefully we come up with something, to make it fair for the electric guys, and the nitro guys. 


looks like i'm working 6 of the races, so i have to figure away out to make a couple of them.


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

yes....I will continue to pit for E-truggy, or will find someone who knows what/how to do it correctly/fairly.

Truggy has been close all year and we have seen nitros win and electrics win..........what we're doing is correct, it just has to be done consistently, and that's why I've stepped in and done most of the pitting myself.


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## kstoracing (Oct 30, 2008)

My sugestion starts: I like the alternate winter starts but 10 is early, maybe 1130 or 11. Summers are fine for 1 or 2. 

The other is suggestion, which may not affect others, are then length of the SC Mains. It's hard to finish 10min, consistently. Maybe a 9min main or 8min. Eight minute is pretty popular, 9 seems more like a compromise. 


Last thing is for the HARC series is for a uniform qualifiying procedure. If not then at least be sure that the race director mentions the style being used during the meeting.


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

qualifying procedures will be uniform..........have discussed this already with the tracks. Your best heat will be your qualifying spot in the mains.........no more quali-points **** LOL


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## Merdith (Sep 20, 2009)

*My two cents...*

I really don't think bonus points ar a good idea, most of the racers do not go to all the bigger races, but that's why there is a meeting to discuss this right. At 8am, come on, thats simply unfair.....

One more issue is that it seems some racers have trouble getting to all three tracks to race. I'm sure there are legitimate reasons for some, but I simply would like to see more racers make a better effort to make at least a few HARC races away from their home track, especially those who have the ability to get there.

If you want points, go to the HARC races.....

It's a really nice group of racers we have going, and from what I hear from talking to other racers, I'm not the only one who has this opinion related to the avoidance of certain tracks. For club racing I can understand, but the HARC races need equal representation between all three tracks...the imbalance is obvious, and simply not fair to the other tracks.....

So let's really work on being a team guys....Working together is easier than it seems. All three tracks are different, and make this series so much dang fun. I had a blast this year at each and every race, and with plenty of new racers, next year promises to be even better......

Looking forward to seeing everyone at Porter.....


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## JustinK (Jan 17, 2009)

My suggestion is 3 dropped races instead of 2.


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

The idea of 3 drops instead of 2 would work against your idea Mad Dog.

The other idea would be going to 1 drop instead of 2 to encourage more consistent participation.

I'm open to either..........


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## monsterslash (Aug 4, 2010)

Maybe an overall trophy for the person who attends all races and has the highest amount of points out of them gets a collective purse or a ironman trophy.


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## jasonwipf (Feb 23, 2009)

Courtney Vaughan said:


> The idea of 3 drops instead of 2 would work against your idea Mad Dog.
> 
> The other idea would be going to 1 drop instead of 2 to encourage more consistent participation.
> 
> I'm open to either..........


I actually think 1 drop would count out even more people as mid year they see they might already be out of the running if they have missed 2 or more and not be encouraged to attending more HARC races the 2nd half of the year since it "wont matter". Thats happening now in fact! I'm game for 3 drops. I like your idea of RC Pro attendance points. Or even attendance points to each of the HARC races just like RC Pro does in their series. Or How about this hybrid idea. You get a 2 drops and if you go to an RC pro race you can use your race results from that to count towards A HARC race, sort of like a 3rd drop in that that rc pro race can replace a missed or poor performance in one of the HARC races. This should be fair Since RC Pro races are usually much harder than your typical HARC race.


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## Merdith (Sep 20, 2009)

*HMM*

I personally Like to race at different tracks, and meet new people. If your motivation to attend races is based on you chances to win, than you've already lost.

Racing is about fun times, and spending the day with other like minded individuals.

For example, Jake has been kicking the snot out of me all year long, and I've made every race, why, to race rc cars and be a part of a group. Not just to win races.....Sure we all want to win, but it's not everything, and certainly not the only reason to make a race, it's about how you play the game.....

Go racing because you like kicking up dirt, not any other reason......


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## jep527 (Jun 19, 2009)

i like 2 drops and for the rc pro , dont really like that idea since some people dont make those. start time should be early in winter and later in summer and be more stricked on people that dont marshell after their race like if your not marshelling then your last race dont count and if you dont marshell after your main then you get last place lowest points


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## kstoracing (Oct 30, 2008)

Mad Dog, I was a culprit of not supporting like I should the other tracks. Shouldbe able to get out more next season. But not as easy sometimes with wife and kids. 


How about doing like the JBRL series. Where you have to attend at least 8 to be considered for points. I think its not even an issue with the leaders they have to attend. I think its a moot point for the casual racers. They'll only attend when they can or want to. Not sure how to attract those racers to other tracks. Maybe splitting the series summer, and winter series.


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## Merdith (Sep 20, 2009)

*I completely understand that....*



kstoracing said:


> Mad Dog, I was a culprit of not supporting like I should the other tracks. Shouldbe able to get out more next season. But not as easy sometimes with wife and kids.
> 
> How about doing like the JBRL series. Where you have to attend at least 8 to be considered for points. I think its not even an issue with the leaders they have to attend. I think its a moot point for the casual racers. They'll only attend when they can or want to. Not sure how to attract those racers to other tracks. Maybe splitting the series summer, and winter series.


Heck I've had way too much time on my hands this year. I only have two cats, your the lucky one my friend...

The casual racer is understandable too, my issue is with the guys who go to all the big races out of town, are serious racers, and then only race at their home track for the HARC. that's just silly.....

You do have good ideas....

I also like the ironman trophy idea.


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## tebone626 (Apr 25, 2010)

i like the three drops also. it helps with guys like me that love to race, and may be able to make the top five, but has to find away to get to out of work, for six of the races. never the less, i will make as many as i can.


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## Ducatibilt (Jul 8, 2010)

Bear with me here, I'm typing this on my phone and I've been drinking so here goes.

What if bonus points were awarded for each time you made it to all 3 tracks. For each time you make it to alll three tracks you get 15 bonus points at the end of the season. Example:
You make all the races for the whole year 60 bonus points.
You miss all the races at the River no bonus points.
You only make it to Vertigo once then 15 points if you make it to the other tracks at least once.

Doesn't have to be consecutively just at least show up to all the tracks a couple of times sometime during the year and collect 30 bonus points.

Hope that's clearas mud. Ust needed to get that out there before I passed out . Good luck!


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## kstoracing (Oct 30, 2008)

Seems like the best thing would be to split the series. Summer and winter. We can have a year champ and seasonal champs. That way guys who have more free time during the summmer versus winter still have a chance for a win. One drop for each season.


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## JANKEII (Feb 2, 2006)

Top 5 get trophies. Should bring more people to the track that don't have a chance to be in the top 3. Or bigger purses for the top 3. Or bigger payout at the end of the season. I know this is hard since racing in the HARC is cheaper than the bigger races. Seams like bigger payout equals bigger crowd


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## skillett (Mar 7, 2010)

All ideas have their points.I would like to see longer run times in sportsman and expert.lets step it up a notch lets run like the big dogs.lets start racing earlier and get done.
How many people actualy like leaving the track at 11 at night especially at the river
You want more attendants start earlier and more people will show.Harc looses
A lot of racers due to late night racing.I "m speaking for most nitro racers step up the run times 20 for sportsman 30 for expert.


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## Verti goat (Jun 16, 2009)

Trophies, payouts....whatever. I'm still in it for the fun of the race, guess i'm not competitive enough to care yet.

JP hit a good point nobody else has mentioned, marshaling. It is a constant battle at every track at every race to have people return for marshaling. Perhaps like Jerry said, more strict enforcement of marshaling by hefty penalties. I see it all the time from the announcing booth, racers yelling for marshals, but they were dilly dalling getting to the track to marshal themselves. Not sure what the penalties should be, but I think it would help us have a better race when all marshals are on the track when they are supposed to be.


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## killerkustoms (Nov 6, 2008)

+1

Marshall with urgency (NO beer, cigarettes and other distractions while on the track), I'm always walking off after marshaling sweating.


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## Jasoncb (Jun 25, 2010)

I agree that splitting up the year into 2 seasons would be a great idea. This would allow people to change classes and not be screwed on points. 

Drivers should not be allowed in pits after their run, they should set the cars down on a designated table and immediately go out and marshal. If you are running nitro your pit man can take your car back for you.

One more thing, we need to get stricter rules on hacking! We need the tracks calling the races to call rough driving and enforce stop and go's.


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## tebone626 (Apr 25, 2010)

i agree with the hacking rule. that would be great.


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## jep527 (Jun 19, 2009)

and the marshals need to stay off the cell phones and stop hanging around in groups talking. another thing the kids that race need to be in a stop where there is not much action which means that us drivers that know what is going on need to step up and stop hideing in the spots were there is no action and marshal like you what to be marshaled.


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## tebone626 (Apr 25, 2010)

well said jep.


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## Jasoncb (Jun 25, 2010)

Agreed jep, I always marshal the way I would like to be marshaled, a drivers position can be seriously compromised by someone who really does not put in the effort. I know some will argue that it's their fault for wrecking, we all wreck and we need to be flipped over every once in a while, so get over it.

This also brings up the point that marshals need to watch their corner and not the race.


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## kstoracing (Oct 30, 2008)

That's because Jerry's the one that hides in the corner chatting it up. 

I am not sure how the tracks will handle this but, How about instead of taking the cars back to your pit area. There be a designated spot for post race cars. That way you come off the track you put your car on the table IMMEDIATELY after the race. Noone has to go to the trailer, table, or booth until after they come off the track. 

Some races have an area to make sure your car is under the guidelines in rules. Our table would be the "Courtesy" table to put radios, cars, and boxes so the racers that just came off the stand don't waste time going back to their table. Races will be more streamlined no more calling to check and see if the marshals are out. 

Maybe someone to watch the table to make sure nothing walks off. Just in case people don't feel safe their stuff is not in their pit area.


I know Mike's and Vertigo have more pit area under the stand. When your race is done, don't leave move your stater box, car and radio to the designated area, and go to the track to Marshal. This shouldn't take longer than 60s. After that minute is up you will be called out. After 30s you're docked 5s on your last race lap time.


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## PhilGundy (Aug 16, 2008)

Mabye we could have a racer sponsor-a-newbie class in the first one or two races of the season to perhaps grow our numbers. Mabye award some series points to the sponsoring racers. A coached race day walk through could help a few of the interested through their intimidation. We could give some of the already interested a taste of what we are addicted to in time for them to participate in the season.

Very humbly submitted from the back of the pack.


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## darrenwilliams (Apr 21, 2008)

Everyone is making some great points here. Here is my $.02.

Length of races. I would not mind increasing A-Mains a little as suggested by Skillet. I would like to see Expert B-Mains be the same length as Sportsman A-Mains. As drivers move from Sportsman to Expert they are going to end up in a lot of B-Mains for a while. I think that this one of the places we are loosing people is they were used to running 15 minute A-Mains and now they are done in a 10 minute race.

Marshalls - Everyone knows they need to get out on the track to marshall. Just do it. It is the track's responsiblility to ensure this happens. The last race at the River we gave 4 minutes between heats (this is a slow pace). This is what we will continue to run for HARC Races. When we hit 2 1/2 minutes to start, we will dock a qualifing lap from every marshall that is not on the track. It is just that simple. Your pitman can take care of your car and radio, you can leave it under the pit tables or you can RUN to you pit and back to the track. Ask Nathan if I am serious.

Attendance and Points
Leave it that way it is. Mad Dog's issues with other people's attendance is not going to be fixed with points. The ones involved don't care about the points. I think this is more of an issue with how races have been run in the past. I am hoping that more of the racers who have avoided The River will come down for a race and see how things are running now.

Start Time
Some form of earlier than what we are doing now, especially in the winter.


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

I appreciate all the input here guys, I really do. And I hope that everyone who is serious about their idea can make it to the meeting...........THAT is where things are solidified for next year.

As for all of these rule ideas, they're great in an ideal world, but you have to remember that I don't have the man-power to time each and every person on how long it takes them to get back to the track, monitor every car in every race for hacking, making sure all radios/cars are impounded, etc. That requires a crew of 7-10 people at every race, who would NOT be able to race the entire day. I dunno about you guys, but I'm there to race and have fun...........not monitor for infractions and then get in a fight with someone because they broke a rule by 60 seconds. 

Enforcement of rules is up to the track........that is the way it has been and will continue to be. As Darren pointed out, how well-controlled a track is during their raceday has a LOT to do with each track's attendance. Again, I personally am there to have fun, not to police races. The minute this becomes a job, it's time for me to politely bow out and get back focused on my own racing........it HAS to be fun.

My motto when it comes to rules is that I use the K.I.S.S. method: Keep It Simple, Stupid. That means I can't write in rules monitor people down to the second or minute, or how/where you're standing when marshalling, or have a Formula-1 grade confusing points calculation. BUT, what I can do is take some of the theories that people are mentioning and try to form them into something that would work for HARC, so here is my response to what I've read thus far:

-Attendance points: again, I don't have time to run a really complicated points scheme, but I'm thinking of something along the lines of bonus points at the end of the season for perfect attendance.

-More trophies, I'm interested in more trophies, but all the trophies would have to be smaller. Part of the reason that the tracks like us is because it costs them a whopping $100/year to participate in our series. Many of you guys don't remember, but there used to be a series called THRC here in Houston, and they had a bigger thing going than we did, and it all crashed down because of arguments over money.....I won't go this direction. I'm not handling dues, sponsors, etc.......this pushed the balance of fun/competition for our series more towards competition, and that's the opposite way I'm steering this ship.

-Split Season: somebody is really going to have to sell me on this one, and the same thing applies as above for the trophies. Double the trophies on the same amount of money = half the size trophies

-Start times: I'm with Skillet on this one. I would love to start at 10-11AM again and get done right around when it turns dark and be able to actually do something else on a Saturday evening. However, all I can tell you is that since we instituted the 3PM start time, we have averaged 10 more entries per race. I'd hate to lose people..........

-Main Lengths: I'm open to longer mains, and the tracks always ask me what the main lengths are when they're setting up their computer, so I assume they are open to whatever we'd like to do. As said before, tell me this at the meeting and let's take a vote. It just has to be simple..............

I say this every year and I've already said it three times in this thread: the meeting is the chance for people to have their ideas heard. What people will agree to on these forums and what they will actually agree to in person are two different things.

The last thing I want to say is that I don't want anyone to get offended or felt left out if I do not act on your idea. I do this as democratically as I possibly can, but there are times when I over-ride decisions because it goes against my future vision for HARC. So what I ask is that rather than get offended by not getting what you want, please place some trust in me that I am steering the ship for the greater good of everyone that participates and will potentially participate in the future. I've got 4 years of experience running this show at this point, and we've tried lots of things that people don't know about, so again, trust me that I'm pointing us in the right direction. 

ok, off to work now!


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## wily (Oct 14, 2005)

CV....keep up the good work. Thanks for the time and effort you put in.


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

Thanks Willy.

Another thing to keep in mind here on the forum, as well as at the meeting is to step back for and really think about whether the rule/idea that you have is benefecial to the group as a whole, and not just a few people. For instance, I've had countless people over the years tell me that they want the races to be on Sunday instead of Saturday, only to find out it's because they have to work on Saturday..........would be good for them, but not the other 90% of us who would like to have Sunday to relax and spend with our families. Just an example..........think you get the point.

Not directed at anyone, I just want to keep us focused here...........these types of discussions can turn into bit*ch sessions REALLY quick LOL


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## kstoracing (Oct 30, 2008)

CV, don't worry about that. You're just opening the diolouge. 

I know 8:30 on Saturday is too early for me. I won't be able to make it. I just wanted to get some ideas on the table. If I need to call in my suggestions the day of I can do that too. If the meeting can be at 1230 or one, I can make that.


CV, is it possible to put a poll up for certain issues, for people who didnt get a chance to make the meeting?


Splitting the series could help attendance during the later periods. When people are thinking they are too far behinde or ahead to make races. A smaller session could negate this thinking. Possibly making attendance more consistant. 

Maybe I can make the meeting. I'll try.


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## Labrat99 (May 6, 2009)

First off, I'd like to give a shout out to CV for all the work he puts into HARC. Your efforts are appreciated by everybody. Also, to all the guys who work/volunteer at each of the three tracks we visit - THANK YOU. You guys are what makes HARC work.
Just like everybody, I have some ideas/suggestions for 2011. Here are mine:
1) I'd like to see an earlier start time. Even if it's just one hour, it will help. Also, and this isn't HARC specific; I'd like to see the races start on time. If we say we're starting at 3pm, then the first heat should be rolling at 3pm sharp.
2) Points. I think the point system that we adopted for 2010 has worked out pretty well. The one thing I'd like to see is that we make sure that the winner scores the most points. The way it is now if you TQ and then finish second, you leave the track tied with the race winner. I'd add one point to the winners score, leave the rest unchanged. If you TQ and win, you'd score 53 points. Win and score 51. TQ and finish second 50. All others unchanged.
3) Drops. I was one of the ones last year that pushed to keep the 2 drops as they were. If you adopt 3 drops, that's 1/4 of the season. It seems like a lot but one of the suggestions made earlier got me thinking. What if we go to three drops, but award bonus points for attendance in excess of 9 races. Say 5 points for each race over 9. CV, I don't think that would be a big hassle scoring wise. Also, if we wanted to we could add bonus points for attending an RC Pro race.
4) Finally, I think we should look at a spec class of some sort. Something so that newcomers aren't going to have a heart attack over what is costs to get involved with racing.


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## jasonwipf (Feb 23, 2009)

I feel ya KS I missed last years meeting and didnt get to speak up about 1 or 2 minor issues but ya snooze you lose. I'm working that morning but am going to move things around just to make the meeting then comeback later to race. We got your ideas and they are good. I'm sure if you dont come someone will bring up your ideas as options for us to consider.


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

I will revisit this thread before the meeting and pull out the major points I want to go over.


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## jasonwipf (Feb 23, 2009)

I like your ideas lab.

I'm game for 1pm, have lunch and race. Its a meet in the middle time for everything that has been suggested too.

Like CV said points and drops need to be stupid simple. I see CV is trying to encourage a few of us to attend an RC PRO race, I like. Also giving people drop flexibility is important. 

So how about keep everything identical; points and 2 drops but you can take your results from any RCpro state or nat race and sub it in to replace one of your HARC races. This way it acts like a 3rd drop and encourages you to try an RCpro race. It wouldn't be unfair either as RC pro races are harder than most HARCs and it gives people flexibility if they had to work or had emergencies that kept them from say 3 HARC races. 1/4 series drop is typical for PRC pro too so its not bad. Right now we are 1/6 ratio.

We used to have a novice and a 2wd (fairly spec) stock slash class and they always died. I hear they are running $150 stock 1/18 rally cars at M&M again.


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

Yeah, until some kind of new class comes along that is conducive to what we run, I'm unfortunately not too interested in a spec class again. 

The way things are, it takes a minimum of about a $500 investment to play in this hobby and be competitive.......it is just the evolution of the hobby and it's where we're currently at. As excited as I was to try and spread the word that you could come race with us and be competitive with a $200 Spec 2wd Slash, the class disappeared within 3 months of the 4wd coming out.

I will never rule out a spec class.........I'm 100% sure something else will come out that is cheap and fun and cool, and when the time comes, we'll open up a class and try it again.


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

Averaging everyone's opinions, I'm leaning towards the following changes:
-12:00 PM start time all year
-50 Bonus points for attending every race
-Going to 3 drops

We definitely need to get done earlier......12PM gives people some of the morning to get ready or do other things, and gets people home at more like 10PM instead of midnight. I've been noticing that there is a lull between morning practice and the 3PM start time........this would help to close that gap and make the most out of our time.

I'm still iffy on the RC Pro race bonus points........it helps a few, but hurts most........not my motto.

The Bonus points for perfect attendance are enough to overtake someone in a position at the end of the year (30-50 points seperate most of the top positions currently), along with the added drop offset each other in terms of encouracing participation.

And as for marshalling and hacking and such, it is and will always be at the track's discretion. If they want to dock you a lap, or a whole heat.......it's up to them.......as Rusty said, they are what make HARC work and they have to have the ability to run the races in the manner that is most efficient to them. People always try to tell me to try and leverage what we bring to the table for the tracks in order to get more out of them........I'm not into that because 95% of the people that race have NO idea how hard it is to make money at a track, and I'm not about to try and take money/time/efficiency away from them and risk losing a track.


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

By the way, I'm never barking at anyone in my responses. We get new people every year and I have to try my best to help them understand why we do things the way we do. It's extremely hard for people to stop and look at the other side of the coin sometimes.


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## jasonwipf (Feb 23, 2009)

I'm game for those avgs. But 50 for "perfect" attendance? wow that will be an all or none thing huh?


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## kstoracing (Oct 30, 2008)

I like the 1pm start times. Then again just tell me when the race is and I'll make adjustments.


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## Jasoncb (Jun 25, 2010)

Courtney Vaughan said:


> And as for marshalling and hacking and such, it is and will always be at the track's discretion. If they want to dock you a lap, or a whole heat.......it's up to them.......as Rusty said, they are what make HARC work and they have to have the ability to run the races in the manner that is most efficient to them. People always try to tell me to try and leverage what we bring to the table for the tracks in order to get more out of them........I'm not into that because 95% of the people that race have NO idea how hard it is to make money at a track, and I'm not about to try and take money/time/efficiency away from them and risk losing a track.


 This was my point. The track calling the races need to call rough driving from the booth. I never meant this to be done by CV or a group of people. Only the race announcer should call this.

On the marshalling, I would just make it mandatory that once you are done racing you marshal immediately. Going back to pits is not allowed period! Very simple rule that is easy to put in place and it would make a huge difference. Probably 1 hour worth of time taken off the entire race not fighting with marshals.


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## Earl_Sparky (Jan 12, 2008)

I appreciate what Courtney has done for RC racing in Houston. It has been fun to see it grow over the last 4 years. I think most of the existing rules and point system are very good.

I do not think adding 50 attendants points are a good idea. That would be the same as making the point system start at 100points.

3 or 4 drop races would be better for a 12 month long series.

I personally think the HARC series is too long and should be divided into a winter and summer series with smaller trophies. The winter series could be scheduled outside of the RC Pro series races and the summer series could be scheduled for kids out of school for the summer. That is our two biggest audiences. In the four years I have raced in the HARC series, I have never finished one. There are simply too many races to make them all. After I see how far I am behind in points, I do not bother attending any more races. Adding attendants points will only make this worse. 

I think the existing points and rules with a 6 round winter series and a 6 round summer series would be more successful. I would allow 1 drop which would require the racers to race at all the tracks. I think more people would be inclined to dedicate 6 months to a series and you would see the attendance and racing would be more competitive. You need to keep the points close to make it exciting for more people to have the possibility to win the series.

I would not combine anything with the RC Pro series that would be a nightmare to track. 

Again, I think Courtney has done a GREAT job. Thank you for all your efforts!:dance:


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## kstoracing (Oct 30, 2008)

CV, is doing a good job. 

I think with an area designated for racers coming off the track to put the ride before they marshall would be beneficial. 

Glad Earl thinks the summer/winter series would be a cool idea. 

I think that would help with attendance having it the series split. Make it more consistent. It would also let people see their accomplishments sooner than once a year.


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## Jasoncb (Jun 25, 2010)

kstoracing said:


> CV, is doing a good job.
> 
> I think with an area designated for racers coming off the track to put the ride before they marshall would be beneficial.
> 
> ...


 Agreed, I have been preaching a split series for a while now. Hopefully this can be done. 1 full year is a long time especially for people who are interested in changing classes or even bumping up to expert.


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## Ducatibilt (Jul 8, 2010)

Just for the sake of argument here.
Run the main series: 12 races with 2 drops.
Then use the same points for 2 secondary series within the main series with 1 drop each.

Say the first 6 races count as one mini series and the last 6 for the second mini series. 
Or do even month races and odd month races however you want to divide the points at the end of the season. 
That way if you can only make 6 races you still have a shot at something. If its someone new coming in at the halfway point they have a shot at something. Or if someone bumps from sportsman to expert they could still win something, might even encourage some guys to bump up to expert halfway through the season and not get completely hosed on points.

The top 3 in each of the classes for the 12 race series win the big trophys, then smaller trophys or whatever for the winners of the 2 mini series. Maybe even just let the winners of the 2 mini series come out of points from 4th down in the main series.

And I haven't even started drinking yet!


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## jasonwipf (Feb 23, 2009)

Earl_Sparky said:


> 3 or 4 drop races would be better for a 12 month long series.
> In the four years I have raced in the HARC series, I have never finished one. There are simply too many races to make them all. After I see how far I am behind in points, I do not bother attending any more races.


Bingo. I have heard and see that happen too many times. This is why there are often only 1-2 people really in the running at the end of the year.

I hear the logic for a split series but between added trophies and work for CV I am hesitant for that reason only.

A parking station for people to put cars while they marshal isnt a bad idea. but seriously if you get your car right after the race (20sec) dont chat with anyone walk to your pit (15-25sec), walk back to track (15-25sec) it really only takes 1 minute to get back out and with 3 minute intervals between mains that is perfect. You should arrive with 2 minutes before the buzzer starts and a table really isnt necessary. Face it guys the real reason we dont get out there in time is we forget, get lazy, chat with others about the last race, do stuff to our cars or put batteries on the charger; All of which we shouldn't do! And I'm guilty of it to!

Lets just cut the BS we know we do and get out there within 1 min of our last race to marshal.


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## jep527 (Jun 19, 2009)

well at next years harc we will be paying alot more attenion to the hackers out there and will be taking laps away for not marshaling or showing up late to marshal. it doesnt take long to put the cars up and get out there. cv your doing a great job


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## JANKEII (Feb 2, 2006)

Sounds like we need the meeting to start ealier.


Courtney Vaughan said:


> I will revisit this thread before the meeting and pull out the major points I want to go over.


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

I'm not so sure about splitting the season guys......let me kick it around for a few days.

Chuck, not all the ideas we come up with on here will make it to the drawing board at the meeting........I'll keep us focused and we'll git-r-done.


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## JANKEII (Feb 2, 2006)

your doing AWESOME!!!
Thanks again


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## jep527 (Jun 19, 2009)

whatever you decide cv it is good with me. just ready to race!!!!!! should be getting the price for the new mbx6e soon i will have one soon if the price is right


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## jasonwipf (Feb 23, 2009)

jep527 said:


> whatever you decide cv it is good with me. just ready to race!!!!!! should be getting the price for the new mbx6e soon i will have one soon if the price is right


Ya the MBX6E is scheduled to be out by X-mas. :rotfl:


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

I wish they would hurry up with that da*n thing! I have the money waiting to go!


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## tebone626 (Apr 25, 2010)

not sure if the 50 points for making all the races is the way to go. looking back, there are only a handfull that have made all the races. if you look at the results, there are more people that would be int the running if there were 3 drops. there are alot of us that cant make all 12 races. so if you want to get the classes more competitive, the 3 drops would be a better idea, than awarding 50 points to a racer that makes all 12 races. that could be a 100 point swing. that is alot. 

just wanted to put my .02 in. 

good job CV


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## jasonwipf (Feb 23, 2009)

I hear ya Jason, You and about 6 others I've seen on the points are a good example of if there was 3 or 4 drops it would make the race close amongst the top 6 drivers vs. the top 2 running away with it. Not because they the top 2 are simply that much better of a driver but because the others had more work/personal events that they had to attend during the year that prevented them from coming to a HARC race; so it quickly killed thier HARC points and motivation to attend later races.

I'm a good example of that too on the other end. In 09 and 10 my points are very high and I look to sweep my 2 classes for 1st again this year. Sure I earned what I got but its largely cuz of attendance too. It's no fun winning by such a big margin. I think racing is more fun when its close and more drops would make that the case amonst the top 5-8 guys. Just knowing your position can change up or down by the performance or attendance of one single race makes me more loyal to the series and makes one want to perform better. If I were doing this for a living I'm sure I would feel opposite in order to guarantee my livelihood but I'm in it for the fun so its all about the thrill of the chase.


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## fast1970 (Feb 21, 2010)

Hmmm,
I just read thru all the posts here, there are alot of good idea's, I have been here almost one year now, and have enjoyed racing the HARC, addmitidly I also think the "season" is to long, it is hard to make all the races. Even with the schedule set well in advance, I am often required to travel at short notice. Having raced in JBRL and several other multi track series, I favor the minimum track attendace method over "bonus points" I will try to attend the TFT race but not sure if I can make the early meeting, I will be flying in late the night before...

Marshalling- yep marshals should get on the track, and pay attention, if you are going to penalize missing or tardy marshals-be consistent. My motto- just remember, when all is said and done, the marshal is doing the best they can they did not wreck, you did...

Hacking- That is a tough one to call, I have raced and wrecked alot, in many places and only once have I felt I was truly "Hacked" Stuff hapens.

Member "A bad day racing beats a good day working"


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## nik77356 (Jun 8, 2007)

I would like to see all of you come out to the meeting to voice your opinions. This is the first year that the meeting is on the same day as an HARC race, so no excuses because you don't want to get up early.


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## jep527 (Jun 19, 2009)

cv what time is the meeting just want to know is it still at 9


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

8:30-9:30AM, Saturday morning of the TFT Race


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## kstoracing (Oct 30, 2008)

Dang, that's too early for me. But I will get there as early as possible.


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## jep527 (Jun 19, 2009)

probally not going to make there that early either but whatever yall decide is good with me as long as the track get to make the rules on the marshaeling. we might be getting a place behind the tower for the cars after the race for cars. when the 2 min mark hits and your not out there it will be a lap taking off.


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