# Helios or Sage?



## parts henry

$1300 budget, what 8 wt would you buy?

Thanks

Parts


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## dsim3240

It depends of where and how you fish. The Helios is the lightest rod around. But that also makes it the most fragile. The least little scratch or nick and the rod may fail on your next fish. If you keep it in it's case when you are not fishing and are careful when you are fishing, it is a please to fish with. The Sage Xi3 is heavier but much more rugged and will take abuse better. The TCX is very technical but is a pleasure to cast if you know what you are doing, the Z-axis is a very nice all around rod and don't forget the VXP it has a nice action for someone the has a smooth cast. Then there is my personel preference, Thomas & Thomas Helix, it's not the most expense but it fits my casting style. My suggestion is to demo as many as possible. I would suggest that you take your reel with line that you like(the line makes the cast) and put it on each rod and test cast them. Preferably on the water. They cast differently on grass or asphalte. Then pick the one that fits your style and don't worry about the price. The most expensive my not be the best rod for your style. Good luck and I hope you find a rod you really like. There's nothing worse than an expensive rod setting in the closet because you don't like the way it feels.


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## RUFcaptain

Sage ONE
Scott S4S


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## reddoc

PartsHenry,
You should go down and have the Orvis shop as well as the Sage fly shop and have then lend you the rod and take them out and fish them. All you have to do is ask. I just bought the Scott S4S as I fished them with Capt. Eric Glass and loved the rod. One of the local shops offered to loan me the new Sage rod but I am going to stick with my Scott S4S. Let me know, I have some Sage Xi2's in 6wt,7wt that I need to get rid of since I switched over to the Scott S4S.


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## MarkA70

I have both. I have the Helios for Salt and the Sage Z axis for fresh. Have seen but not cast the Sage 1. I love them both. The Helios is outstanding and the tip flex can cast a mile. If you are close, go see Dave Hayward at the Orvis shop in Rockport. Orvis runs some really go buy the rod get the reel free. Now the reel will not be a Tibor but a **** good reel. I would go Orvis.


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## devil1824

reddoc said:


> PartsHenry,
> You should go down and have the Orvis shop as well as the Sage fly shop and have then lend you the rod and take them out and fish them. All you have to do is ask. I just bought the Scott S4S as I fished them with Capt. Eric Glass and loved the rod. One of the local shops offered to loan me the new Sage rod but I am going to stick with my Scott S4S. Let me know, I have some Sage Xi2's in 6wt,7wt that I need to get rid of since I switched over to the Scott S4S.


I sent you a PM.


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## PL

Loomis Pro 1 piece if thats not an issue, otherwise id check out the Sage 1 or the TCX in a 7 which is effectively an 8. I fish with the TCX 7 and its my go to rod for reds and bonefish. Ive been reading that the new Hardy proaxis 1 piece is supposed to be out of this world, but havent cast one yet. Dont go with the NRX Loomis. Too whippy.


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## GrapeApe

Reddington. Use the savings for something else fun.


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## RUFcaptain

Go talk to the guys at iFly in Houston, they can help you with your decision.


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## shallowist

Hands down, the Helios is the lightest and sweetest casting rod you can find!! As for the comment about the slightest nick causing a breakage, any rod today will suffer from that issue. To the testament of the Helios, I have been using my 8 for just over two months, landed numerous reds to over 8 pounds, banged and bounced it around the boat and other places, and have yet to see even the slightest issue. Two weeks ago when filming for a redfish video with Tobin Strickland, we used only the Helios 6 weight for the day. We landed 10 reds to probably near 7 pounds, and I have zero negative remarks. 

Worst case, let's say you do break a Helios, just swing by the Orvis store, and they will hand you a brand new one. That doesn't work well with other brands.

Good luck and enjoy whatever rod you end up with. 

Steve


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## mawallace

Winston BII-mx, incredibly fast and light. havent cast a orvis but i do have a Sage and the Winston is much better. 

to each his own.


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## cougmantx

My favorite salt water rod and reel is still a Tibor Everglades and a Sage LPLXi 990-3 9 weight 3 piece rod. I bought the reel and rod while working in the keys in 1998 and have caught redfish, bonefish, small tarpon, permit, specks, bass and a couple of small sharks with that outfit and it has never failed me. I have had several Orvis rods and reels and kept having to get parts of the rods replaced which Orvis did gladly. I just have never had my Sage fail me in any way. 

The other up side with this rod and reel is that I was looking at prices to get the same or equivalent gear today and figured I could just about sell what I have for the same prices I bought them for in 1998 :biggrin:

I gotta get out and do some fishing. I haven't picked up a rod in a year after fishing two - three times a week last year.


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## gjake999

*which rod*

I have been lucky enough to fish the rods mentioned in the previous posts---and still go back to my favorite---loomis crosscurrent glx


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## cougmantx

gjake999 said:


> I have been lucky enough to fish the rods mentioned in the previous posts---and still go back to my favorite---loomis crosscurrent glx


Read a review in the past week that had Loomis as 1 and 2 with the Sage xi3 in third place. Think they rated the top 10 saltwater rods. Pretty extensive test they put them through.

Anyway, I'm going to have to try one of the loomis in a 6 weight.


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## PL

Here's an interesting shootout done by the guys up at the yellowstone angler in montana. They did one of these a while back that was very technical and well done. Recently they did it again with the new rods that have come to the market. Very in depth.

http://www.yellowstoneangler.com/8w...yProAxis.BVK.St.Croix.LegendElite.SageXi3.asp


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## IamRoger

Helios has a 25 yrs guarantee for anything, your fault, Orvis fault...doesn't matter.


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## texasflycaster

Simple solution - throw them all and pick the one that fits your casting style comfortably. Double hauling would probably be part of your saltwater cast as well? The rods I am most curious about are Scott's S4s series. Hard to find deals on these though.


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## BRH

Both are great rods. I have a Helios 8WT Tip-flex and I love it. I put a Lamson Litespeed 3.5 on it and the whole package is around 9 oz.

And the argument that it is too fragile dosen't hold water... If you break it, even at your own fault, they will replace it no questions asked.

Oh, and another thing, around Christmas time they send out some pretty crazy cupons, and you may be able to get one for a couple hundred bucks off.


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## Coconut Groves

All good rods weigh hardly anything. For weight, it is going to come down to what reel you put on there. For example, the Helios 8wt is 2-7/8 ounces, and the Winston BII-MX is 3-3/4 ounces. You might think that is a big difference, but can you really tell 3/4 of an ounce difference? I can't.

Now on the reels, you might have one that is under 5 ounces, and one that is 8 ounces. This is where you should find the lightest with the best drag. I fish Lamson Litespeeds on my Winston BII-MX rods and love them, but you do have to be mindful about cleaning them. I've had a few of the sealed drags get corroded. But then again, I fish a lot.

I use the Litespeeds on my Winston BII-MX 6, 8, and 9 weights. For my 10 and 12 weights, I use Ross Momentums. The type of fish you catch on 10 and 12s need a really good drag. They are heavier reels yes, but their drag is tops. I've boated a 100lb tarpon in 25 minutes on the 12 weight and a Momentum.

Lastly on rods, go cast them first. Make sure the stroke matches your style. If you aren't a good double hauler yet, get a rod that is a little more forgiving. Also, check out the Loomis NRX - I've heard lots of good things. Personally, I am a Winston guy and I recommend them, but I haven't seen your cast, which is the biggest factor when choosing a rod.


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## Boboe

PL said:


> Loomis Pro 1 piece if thats not an issue, otherwise id check out the Sage 1 or the TCX in a 7 which is effectively an 8. I fish with the TCX 7 and its my go to rod for reds and bonefish. Ive been reading that the new Hardy proaxis 1 piece is supposed to be out of this world, but havent cast one yet. Dont go with the NRX Loomis. Too whippy.


The Hardy ProAxis is amazing! I got a chance to fish it in 7wt this summer when a guest brought one. It's a fantastic rod. I've got one on order.

The Winston Boron II-MX is an amazing stick, and very light. You can't go wrong with this rod.

As for the Helios, I've watched FOUR (4) Helios 8wts break in the last 4 summers. Some on fish, some when casting. It's just too fragile a rod. I've heard that in weights heavier than 8, it's not so fragile.

The Sage TCX is a cannon. The Xi3 is too fast for most people, but it's also a cannon.

There's no one rod that's perfect for every application. I hate seeing people bring Xi3's to go nymphing. You don't want to be throwing a tight loop with a nymph rig. You want a softer rod for that. Like others said, try out some different rods and see what you like.

As for reels, Nautilus reels are awesome.


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## PL

Unfortunately I fished the new Sage ONE 7wt the other weekend in Port O'Connor and am now saving up for one of my own. My wallet was really hoping that it would be an awful rod, but its hands down the most accurate rod I've ever thrown at both short and long range. It really is spectacularly awesome....dang it!


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## texasflycaster

Who's to say Sage isn't coming out with more new rods? I haven't even seen them promote the ONE as a saltwater rod in any ads. I'm thinking they must have more up their sleeves. That said, I have heard the Scott S4s is a special stick. Anyone gone head-to-head S4s vs. Helios vs. ONE?


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## PL

Im my own humble opinion Ive fished all 3 rods and the Scott and Orvis, while good rods in their own right, shouldnt be considered in the same category. They simply don't compare. It would be like comparing a turbo prop to a jet engine. The ONE is in its own category for now. Im sure some new rod will come down the pipe in future that will make it obsolete as well, but in the mean time it's head a shoulders above the rest. This is coming from someone with 15+ flyrods covering the gamut of technological advances in rod design.


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## davidb

Bingo right answer - "Simple solution - throw them all and pick the one"

Better yet fish them especially in windy conditions, I have been wowed when parking lot casting only to find it wasn't right rod on the water for me.

What may be a magic wand for one may be a useless switch for another. Literally - Different strokes for different folks.

All the top rods are good.


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