# Something Shad-y here.



## Sunbeam (Feb 24, 2009)

Meadowlark has been on a shad propagation mission. We discussed the life cycle of the lowly shad in our waters.

There are four major types of shad in the Eastern US waters.
See the links below.

Our Trinity water shed had two of the four major species plus a mystery shad.
We amateurs call the small shad seen running the bulkheads in the spring thread fin or button shad. Indeed that is what they are in most East Texas Lakes. They are the wildebeest of the fresh water. Every thing eats them.

The other shad found in great numbers is the much larger gizzard shad. So named for the gizzard type organ found in their digestive tract. These are also a prime food source for the predator fish but only the large species since the gizzard shad can reach 12/14 inches in a year.

Our mystery fish appears to be a thread fin/gizzard shad hybrid. 
I have found several fish identification site that mention this hybrid. I copied one link that mentioned that possibility of this in the waters of Arkansas. This site is not an Ichthyology specialty site but is hosted by a group dedicated to striped bass fishing.

Threadfin shad are usually easily distinguished from gizzard shad by the fact that the upper jaw does not project beyond the lower jaw. The anal fin usually has 20-25 rays, as opposed to 29-35 rays found in gizzard shad.

Using this identification criteria maybe it would be possible for some of our local bait hustlers to take a look at those 5 to 7 inch shad that are caught around the marinas and ramps during the summer. 
MDL posted a photo of a gizzard shad and a ??? shad today. Is that smaller fish a hybrid?
For sure it is not a Hickory shad. That species is a salt water shad that spawns in the rivers of the east coast. It and its cousin the American shad are huge compared to our fresh water Texas species.





http://www.arkansasstripers.com/gizzard-shad.htm
http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/huntwild/wild/species/threadfinshad/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_shad

The three photo top to bottom are Thread fin, Gizzard Shad and Hickory shad.
Note the gizzard and thread fin both have the "thread" on the dorsal fin.


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## Sunbeam (Feb 24, 2009)

BTW There will be a test next Monday so better study hard.


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

I'll re-post that picture of the "hybrid" shad for reference for everyone...its the one on the bottom of the attached picture. 

Notice that there is a kind of golden band running down the back of that fish. Each of them had it and it was not on the gizzards from below the dam....only on the lake shad.

I agree its not a hickory....and that wasn't the name the commercal friend called it actually, but I couldn't recall the name he gave. I'd bet Mr. Louie knows it.


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

Actually that "band" shows up better in some of the fish in this picture. Maybe its just big threadfins, adults.


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## Reel Time (Oct 6, 2009)

Not to start an argument here but you got me googling shad, especially hickory shad. I found this......

"Hickory shad are anadromous; adults live in coastal ocean waters, until they are sexually mature, and then move into freshwater to spawn. After spawning, surviving adults return to the ocean. Newly hatched young remain in fresh and brackish water for a short time before moving out to the ocean."

So my question is: how far inland are these shad found?


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## shadslinger (Aug 21, 2005)

Gator gar, what do you say? I think you are the best qualified 2cooler to answer, dbullard too.
I think they are SS shad! :fishy:
I have been secretly breeding them so WhitBassFisher can make molds from them.


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

SB,

I sent off pictures to our mutual biologist friend and hopefully we will get a response...but it may take awhile.


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## Gator gar (Sep 21, 2007)

There are two references to shad from the commercial guys. Threadfin and what they call a medioche (Mee-dee-oak) which is what I took for a medium sized Threadfin. Deffinately gizzard shad below the dam along with threadfin. 

James at Livingston Fish and Seafood was showing me the difference in the threadfin and medioches and it had to do with the way their mouths were. I don't know if there is such a thing as a freshwater menhadden, but I catch a bunch of them in Lake Anahuac at the pump station.

When I catch them in the net, all I see is bait. I try not to analyze them too closely, cause it takes my mind off of catfishing. I keep it simple, small, medium and large "Bait". lol


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## Sunbeam (Feb 24, 2009)

Don't Google "medioche." All the different results will give you a headache.
Hope we get an answer from Meadowlarks expert. 
This shad stuff is beyond my MOS. I am an offshore marine pipe line expert.

Did you notice the forlorn look in the eyes of the gizzard shad in MDL's photo? Makes me sort of sad.


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

Gator gar said:


> There are two references to shad from the commercial guys. Threadfin and what they call a medioche (Mee-dee-oak) which is what I took for a medium sized Threadfin. Deffinately gizzard shad below the dam along with threadfin.
> 
> James at Livingston Fish and Seafood was showing me the difference in the threadfin and medioches and it had to do with the way their mouths were.


Excellent response GG. Thanks. That's the name I was searching for... medioche. I've also talked to James about them and he was the first person who told me about the existance of a third type of shad on Livingston.

The question remaining to me is "are they a separate species or just an adult threadfin?" and a residual question, based on Sunbeam's excellent research, "could they be a hybrid between our threafin and gizzard?"

This stuff is fascinating to me.....all part of MOSF...and, for me, all pointing towards getting ready for next spring in the magical striper kingdom.


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

Sunbeam said:


> ...Did you notice the forlorn look in the eyes of the gizzard shad in MDL's photo? Makes me sort of sad.


Don't be sad for it....it went into a pond where it will be the king of the waters and will receive treatment like it never could get in the predator rich environment below the dam....that shad doesn't know how lucky it is!!


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## ComeFrom? (May 21, 2004)

Very well written SB! Did you know that you were 13 y.o. when I was born? Ridiculous trivia. The freshwater board is lucky to have such an intellect. Were you fishing at 13? CF?


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## Sunbeam (Feb 24, 2009)

About that time we lived in several boom towns around Corpus. My daddy pushed truckers (forman) of an oilfield rig moving company. There was a lot of drilling in the bay systems were they built oyster shell filled T heads off the shore to support land type drilling rigs. 
In the summer I lived in daddy's pickup so I could fish from every dock on the bays. Ill bet I caught enough hard heads, piggies and sand trout to fill a 40 ft container.
The summer I was 12 I spent on Lake Worth at my older half brother's wholesale live bait operation.
I trapped red horse minnows from the sand bars of Goat Island by the millions.
In fact starting with a length of string and a piece bacon catching crawfish in south Louisiana were I was born are some of my first childhood memories.
I have fished in 28 countries and every Ocean except the Antarctic. 
I was going there but that sour puss Paul Watson would not let me catch a whale. LOL


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## ComeFrom? (May 21, 2004)

Sunbeam said:


> About that time we lived in several boom towns around Corpus. My daddy pushed truckers (forman) of an oilfield rig moving company. There was a lot of drilling in the bay systems were they built oyster shell filled T heads off the shore to support land type drilling rigs.
> In the summer I lived in daddy's pickup so I could fish from every dock on the bays. Ill bet I caught enough hard heads, piggies and sand trout to fill a 40 ft container.
> The summer I was 12 I spent on Lake Worth at my older half brother's wholesale live bait operation.
> I trapped red horse minnows from the sand bars of Goat Island by the millions.
> ...


That's great. Thanks.


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## chucktx (Sep 12, 2011)

man i love these history lessons, mixed in with shad lessons.........keeps the topic very interesting!!!!!!!


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

Ok, Sunbeam, I've heard from two fisheries biologists, both of whom I know to be very skilled, very professional. One works for TP&W and the other has his own fish farm and has extensive experience in our area.

Both say that we only have two distinct shad types, gizzards and threafins, in our freshwater lakes. Specifically:

Gizzard and threadfin are really the only two options as far as true shad in the Trinity. There are also gulf menhaden in the river below Livingston Dam, but I don't think there could be any of those in the lake. Everything in your pictures looks like gizzard shad to me. There can often be color variation between lake and river fish since pigmentation can change with diet and habitat/environment which could be different in the lake and river.

This little experiment should either confirm that or possibly raise additional questions...that is, if the lake shad I've stocked take on the same appearance as the gizzards in the same pond environment, it will confirm.


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## Reloder28 (Apr 10, 2010)

Can you imagine what its like to have been created for the sole purpose of being eaten alive?

At least I'll be dead when God feeds me to the worms.


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