# livingston, here we go again



## richk* (Jun 15, 2014)

:headknock


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## markbrumbaugh (Jul 13, 2010)

Rather irresponsible gate management I say.


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## saved (Feb 1, 2014)

Yes they waited too long again to open the gates wider. Now they are flooding everyone down river.


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## shadslinger (Aug 21, 2005)

I went to Sabine pass yesterday and the entire way, 146s 787, little jog over to 105 at sour lake south towards winne and lean left to be on 365 all the way to 287, etc...
The ditches, creeks, were flowing high and fast overloaded with water.
Then I got home and saw the release was up to 77000! The lake two feet high and the river jammed above it with more to come.
TRA will have to flood those folks down river as they are at max flow in the smaller tributaries. The river rise will back the creeks up and flood out the bottoms land.
I would be getting the heck out of the way of this event downriver as any more rain will be very scary to add to this mix.
I believe that if TRA had taken the obvious action to open the gates and lower the lake to keep ahead of this event folks beside the lake and down the river could be spared a lot of property loss and damage.
Tunnel vision on their part I suppose.


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## SeaOx 230C (Aug 12, 2005)

saved said:


> Yes they waited too long again to open the gates wider. Now they are flooding everyone down river.


we were already flooding down river and have been for some time the disaster center in Liberty county have been open for awhile. You just don't hear much about it on the news. These are mostly very poor to middle class working people and it's Liberty County. One of the poorest countries in the State. No one really cares what happens here except.those of us that live here so there is rarely much coverage. The only reason it made the new last year was mostly because of the "poor cows" that got trapped by the water.

The small amount of time between surges has allowed some relief for some folks. Especially for those whose home is not flooded they just can't get to it except by boat due to roads being underwater.


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## Sac-a-lait Trey (Jun 10, 2015)

It's not that we don't care, SeaOx, but if it's not covered in the news...

Hoping you suffer minimal damage and inconvenience.


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## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

True, I think we care, and it is not reported. But DFW can't have the most rainfall ever recorded in one year and not flood downstream.


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## SeaOx 230C (Aug 12, 2005)

Oh I know most of you guys care, I did not mean for it to sound that way. It's the news media and such that does not consider it news worthy. Can't expect you guys to know what you don't know.

I apologize for making it sound as if I thought you folks on here don't care. I believe some of the most caring helpful people around are right here.

Trey thanks but I do not flood where I'm at, however I do know several that are or have flooded and others that while they are not flooded and don't flood they just can't get in or out due to road flooding.


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## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

The fact is that in the last 8 months, the TRA has had to contend with 4 different times when water in the 60,000 cfs to 75,000 cfs flow rate has approached them. The lake level rose 2 to 2 & 1/2 feet from these events. Can they do better? I honestly don't know. I don't want to be critical of the TRA all considered, but it seems they wait a bit too long to open the gates. Would it really matter when that big slug hits them? Or is it just the nature of the beast? :question:


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## GaryI (Mar 18, 2015)

Whitebassfisher - Regarding your previous post, I don't claim to be an expert on this subject, but here is a paragraph that I wrote from a similar thread on this forum last year:

***************
"According to TRA, the lake surface area is 83,000 acres, which is 3.6 billion sq. ft. So, the lake can accommodate 1 ft of vertical water change through a volume change of 3.6 billion ft3. Over a period of 1 day, this would require a delta flow (difference between input and output) into the lake of about 42,000 cfs. So now, for example, if the outflow is kept constant at the current rate of about 44,000 cfs at the dam, the lake could accommodate a slug of inflow at 86,000 cfs over 2 days by rising 2 ft. So it seems to me that it would make sense to manipulate the lake level IF the slug of incoming water is of short duration (a day or 2). But if it is a longer duration high flow event, the lake doesn't have enough volume to have that much of an impact."
****************

So, I believe that active control of the lake level only helps significantly if the event is a short duration.


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## Bankin' On It (Feb 14, 2013)

I sure hope SOMEBODY is checking the bridge supports south of the dam. Jeez!


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## markbrumbaugh (Jul 13, 2010)

There was no reason to let the lake come up 2 feet last week and THEN open the gates to 77k. That and the NW wind took 10 feet of my dock out by breaking welds to my bulkhead. (My dock is at 135 feet.) It also ruined my water pump, broke my irrigation line and ripped out my electrical conduit to the boat houses. Had they opened the gate more on Jan 6 instead of Jan 9, no effect would have felt at Liberty county, and hundreds of docks and bulkheads would have been safe.
For the taxes we pay to be on the water, it would seem that TRA could hire a least one competent person to control the gates. This has been going on for the 34 years I've been on the lake. TRA takes action after the level has gotten high enough to destroy waterfront property, erode the shorelines, and then over reacts to catch up, dumping a slug down the river. I wish I knew who to talk to as TRA is non-responsive.


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## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

markbrumbaugh said:


> There was no reason to let the lake come up 2 feet last week and THEN open the gates to 77k. That and the NW wind took 10 feet of my dock out by breaking welds to my bulkhead. (My dock is at 135 feet.) It also ruined my water pump, broke my irrigation line and ripped out my electrical conduit to the boat houses. Had they opened the gate more on Jan 6 instead of Jan 9, no effect would have felt at Liberty county, and hundreds of docks and bulkheads would have been safe.
> For the taxes we pay to be on the water, it would seem that TRA could hire a least one competent person to control the gates. This has been going on for the 34 years I've been on the lake. TRA takes action after the level has gotten high enough to destroy waterfront property, erode the shorelines, and then over reacts to catch up, dumping a slug down the river. I wish I knew who to talk to as TRA is non-responsive.


I have a saying ..... I can't argue with good logic.
And I will repeat, we have the computerization to prevent this. The USGS has about 66 measuring stations that are on the Trinity watershed above the lake; that is a lot of information that could be used to prevent the above. If 75,000 is hitting the upper end, the river downstream will get it. It would be nice if the TRA realized that the main lake not only puts up with the level, but big waves on top of that. The river downstream will see the same flow and level, no matter what, but the river downstream doesn't have the big waves in addition. Waves are heavy and destructive.


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## SeaOx 230C (Aug 12, 2005)

Mark I truly hope the loss of part of your dock, water pump, conduit to boat house*s*, irrigation line all works out for you.

I know that has to be very frustrating and likely costly for you to deal with. Good luck with the repairs, don't know if you tackle it yourself, but if you do be very careful. As I am sure you know it can be very dangerous work, easy to slip and fall.


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## BigNate523 (May 19, 2010)

markbrumbaugh said:


> There was no reason to let the lake come up 2 feet last week and THEN open the gates to 77k. That and the NW wind took 10 feet of my dock out by breaking welds to my bulkhead. (My dock is at 135 feet.) It also ruined my water pump, broke my irrigation line and ripped out my electrical conduit to the boat houses. Had they opened the gate more on Jan 6 instead of Jan 9, no effect would have felt at Liberty county, and hundreds of docks and bulkheads would have been safe.
> For the taxes we pay to be on the water, it would seem that TRA could hire a least one competent person to control the gates. This has been going on for the 34 years I've been on the lake. TRA takes action after the level has gotten high enough to destroy waterfront property, erode the shorelines, and then over reacts to catch up, dumping a slug down the river. I wish I knew who to talk to as TRA is non-responsive.


yeah got these saturday im sure there was alot of damage.


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## bowmansdad (Nov 29, 2011)

I know it's not rocket science but the TRA has been the same for years. With all the information they get it sure looks like they could keep it between the ditches but no such luck.
Mark, sorry for your loss. Would it be feasible to go to 137' or would the wave action do the same to the dock?


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## duhunter (Nov 17, 2009)

TRA properly has a deal worked out with the local dock / hardware stores for kickback!!


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## SeaOx 230C (Aug 12, 2005)

I would not want the job of deciding when and how much to open those gates for all the money in the World. There are *H*omes flooding above the lake and below the lake what's a poor LLD Gate Operator supposed to do?

The first link is about home flooding above the Lake and the next is about Home flooding down river from the Lake and the new Liberty County Disaster Center. This is the newest info I found, but trust me when I say it is still flooding. Couldn't find any info about Home flooding on the Lake, surely there must be some but I could not find any info.


*Trinity River flooding threatens homes *

KYTX - â€ŽDec 16, 2015â€Ž
WALKER *COUNTY*, *Texas* (KHOU) - More rain coming overnight is not welcome news for neighborhoods near the Trinity River. The Trinity River Authority is releasing more water from Lake Livingston because it's not dropping fast enough to handle the ...


KYTX
*Floodwaters rise in Liberty County*

Chron.com-Dec 16, 2015
For the third time in nine months, the Trinity River is spilling from its banks and causing major _*flooding*_ in a dozen riverside subdivisions in ...

Trinity River _*flooding*_ threatens homes
KYTX-Dec 16, 2015 Explore in depth(3 more articles)

 TWC News
*Disaster recovery center opens in Liberty County*

Chron.com-Dec 29, 2015
The purpose of the center is allow residents affected by _*flooding*_ or winds from ... For other questions, please call the _*Liberty County*_ Office of ...

Disaster Recovery Center Opens in _*Liberty County*_ for Texans
Liberty Vindicator-Dec 28, 2015 Explore in depth(11 more articles)


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## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

Your first link about Deep River Plantation strikes close because I own a lot there. Although I have driven down the street in front of it, I have never even gotten out of the truck and set foot on that lot. I bought the lot maybe 20 years ago just so that I could use the subdivision ramp there legally and not get my rig towed off. I would have tried fishing up there this week, but felt the whole area would be underwater and I couldn't get to the ramp.


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## SeaOx 230C (Aug 12, 2005)

Whitebassfisher said:


> Your first link about Deep River Plantation strikes close because I own a lot there. Although I have driven down the street in front of it, I have never even gotten out of the truck and set foot on that lot. I bought the lot maybe 20 years ago just so that I could use the subdivision ramp there legally and not get my rig towed off. I would have tried fishing up there this week, but felt the whole area would be underwater and I couldn't get to the ramp.


 Small world!! Many years ago I learned how to hunt Snipe in Deep River Plantation. My older brother's best friend lived there. We were spending the night with them during the white bass run. My brother, his friend George, and Georges Dad taught me how one night in field close to the house.


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## markbrumbaugh (Jul 13, 2010)

I would love to have that job, or serve on the board, or provide free engineering. With all the data we have on rainfall, stream flows, stage heights, and the mission of the TRA to meet the flow of the river after meeting contractual demands for water, this is a relatively simple problem to solve. A very simple linear program could optimize minimizing flooding downstream and upstream subject to their core mission. However, TRA would just as soon save overtime on gate operations and hide behind, "we are not a flood control lake". We could even put in an objective to minimize striper losses.

Well, you know what? I'm not a licensed physician, but I won't let somebody bleed out. TRA is operating like a bunch of dumb lazy jerks instead of as a professional outfit. Good grief, look at the revenue, taxes and business this lake brings to Polk county. We deserve better and so does Liberty, Polk County, and the rest of the trinity River system. Just tell me where to start!


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## markbrumbaugh (Jul 13, 2010)

duhunter said:


> TRA properly has a deal worked out with the local dock / hardware stores for kickback!!


I would hate to admit, it has crossed my mind.


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## WGA1 (Mar 1, 2012)

It has been an unusually tough year for all of us along the lake and river. There have been times that I have been frustrated with TRA but what I have really been frustrated with is the dang weather. The rain just won't stop. Just when I think we might get a break a large storm comes and floods the entire watershed again. Last I heard El NiÃ±o was supposed to start weakening late winter or early spring. We have had our drought and now the floods so hopefully some sort of normalcy is coming.


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