# SCB / Shallow sport deal



## cominahead (Sep 15, 2011)

With all this confusion and questioning about the purchase of SCB and what happened. why has Eric not responded to clarify? Has anyone seen or heard a response from him?


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## TexasVines (Jan 5, 2012)

1. from his facebook statement he is pretty mad

2. read between the lines what is he going to say

I have seen this before especially with boat builders

there had to have been a time when the company made money it was around from 2003 and had the dad "investing" from 2006 (as both have stated) so that is 13+ years and 10 years with dad investing 

from all the statements so far it is pretty easy to see that somewhere in the middle there came a time when you either had to make a lot more boats with a lot larger investment to do so or cut nuts and dad decided to cut nuts

how that all went down and who said what and what offers were made and who did what and who knew what....who knows

but again there were "issues" that were brought up on this forum in the past with built times stretching out and as others have also stated those build times were LONG already compared to what is needed to really produce a single boat

so again reading between the lines there was a squeeze on production and generally the way around that is INVEST MORE to MAKE MORE...faster

but of course at this time the economy in the area that this particular company was really serving is not roaring along like it was

the dad (investor) has made an indication in his statements that he no longer wanted to be on the hook personally (without regard to the company making money lately or not making money lately)

then there is the TEQ issue with the "fumes" from making fiberglass that was going to require an investment to resolve

the dad indicated there was a deadline for this (and that pretty clearly is the case as that BS is hitting everyone)

so again you are looking at a company with a single person that makes it all work...they are SQUEEZED HARD on production overall.....they are facing a major move and or investment to meet "regulations" and they have an investor that no longer wants to be on the hook much less invest MORE money going into what is probably going to be a slack in demand 

3. the back and forth and the personal aspects and the deals that were or were not done and who knew what and who was trying to do what ect we will all probably never know

who could run a business and push a business through the hard times and the expansion times and the production demand times and who could not we will probably never know

4. do we need to know....probably not

5. is hearing from one side or the other going to change the opinions of those that have already taken a side....no for sure not 

6. if most of this had come to light in probably 2010 or 2011 when the economy and small niche boat builders with a PREMIUM COST product were picking up fast as could be and oil in Texas was red hot would we be seeing this same story....probably not because back then production was not squeezed, the company was probably making a profit each year, there were not TEQ regs looming fast on the horizon and the economy was good and production was heading up and that is when investors can step in and take something over from a "family" or a "personal backer" and push it forward to the next level......but those times passed on and all of that turned upside down 


7. his best bet is instead of rehashing the past and fighting personal battles on the WWW and possibly losing some support from people that like the product is to nut up, figure out how to feed his wife and kids and himself and see if he can't get back to building boats at a time when the economy is DOWN and the time when smart investors pick up assets on the cheap and or pick up small slices of business left from others crashing and burning and build back into the next boom properly without PERSONAL backers on the hook financially and with lean and mean scheduling and purchasing learned from past mistakes and new efficient tooling ect 

that is what he NEEDS to do instead of making more statements about something that is done for


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## cominahead (Sep 15, 2011)

understood and well put. just seems like he would come out on social media {which he was on a lot promoting his business before** to clarify things. huge fan base between 2cool and Facebook.


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## boltmaster (Aug 16, 2011)

If you re read the SCB FB post we are assuming Eric wrote it really doesn't sound to me as if it's written the way someone would write such a statement about himself....almost like it was written for him ...don't know???


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## Whipray (Mar 12, 2007)

TexasVines said:


> 1. from his facebook statement he is pretty mad
> 
> 2. read between the lines what is he going to say
> 
> ...


Do you get paid by the word?


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## laguna red (Apr 23, 2008)

*Eric*

You guys are correct daddy owned it all ! But Eric was scb and still is in my book
I have been in a family business ran by my dad and had him disrupt my life and take away everything I had worked hard for. There is no more Christmas no more thanksgiving just a lot of hurt ..... Eric whatever you decide to do next 
I'd be honored to help in anyway possible you need backers I know a few scb
Oilfield trash guys that would love to be a part of it take a breathe think about it and let me know


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## shooks (May 12, 2010)

cominahead,
I talked to Wes (shallowsport) John Simmons(SCB)and Eric Simmons,today by phone.
boltmaster,
Candice Simmons wrote that. Boltmaster I will be in San Antonio tomorrow if you PM me your info I will drop by your office and I will answer any question for you.

I have great respect for all three men, In my world the Texas boat builders will be alright. 
I did not having anything to do with any part of the deal,But I do have a deposit on my third 
scb


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## Copano/Aransas (Dec 18, 2011)

boltmaster said:


> If you re read the SCB FB post we are assuming Eric wrote it really doesn't sound to me as if it's written the way someone would write such a statement about himself....almost like it was written for him ...don't know???


See below buddy.



shooks said:


> cominahead,
> I talked to Wes (shallowsport) John Simmons(SCB)and Eric Simmons,today by phone.
> boltmaster,
> *Candice Simmons wrote that.* Boltmaster I will be in San Antonio tomorrow if you PM me your info I will drop by your office and I will answer any question for you.
> ...


That makes sense. Hope it all works out for Eric & Shallow Sport.


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## Bazooka (Dec 10, 2011)

TexasVines said:


> 1. from his facebook statement he is pretty mad
> 
> 2. read between the lines what is he going to say
> 
> ...


Monster must be running their 2 for $3.00 sale..


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## Copano/Aransas (Dec 18, 2011)

Bazooka said:


> Monster must be running their 2 for $3.00 sale..


 No kidding.


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## beefmaster (Jul 30, 2009)

I'm sure it'll take time, but I hope father and son can eventually reconcile. To me that's the biggest tragedy here.


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## BretE (Jan 24, 2008)

shooks said:


> cominahead,
> I talked to Wes (shallowsport) John Simmons(SCB)and Eric Simmons,today by phone.
> boltmaster,
> Candice Simmons wrote that. Boltmaster I will be in San Antonio tomorrow if you PM me your info I will drop by your office and I will answer any question for you.
> ...


You still taking delivery?


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## Flat's Hunter (Oct 18, 2007)

. 

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## Jeff SATX (Jan 18, 2011)

Sounds like dad told son, son didn't tell wife, son had high hopes, kept both strung along, time runs out, dad's $ runs out, wife is without a clue. Terrible. I always loved the complete 100% customizable part of SCB. Recently there was an all black SS X3 "last of its kind, never will be made again" and that's not good. Seems like part of the appeal of scb was you're not just another seafoam and white classic burning a shoreline. Now recons will be massed produced to fill up showrooms, but who knows, maybe that's what it takes to run a business...


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## JFolm (Apr 22, 2012)

If the dads story is true then it seems as if Eric ignored the warnings. Hate to hear someone lose their life but at some point you have to admit that you lost.


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## fishin shallow (Jul 31, 2005)

Dually rolling on 24's ain't cheap.


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## Hookem1 (Feb 23, 2011)

I don't understand when you have a customer base where money is no object and you build a 80-90k boat, you cannot make money. Something still does not make sense. Must have been some really poor financial management.


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## gman1772 (Jul 15, 2012)

For some reason I believe the demise of the SCB "super boat" is being greatly exaggerated. 

Wes & Kyra have been producing quality boats for while. I doubt that you will see a let off in the quality of the brand. 

Eric has too. And whatever business model he was using was a failure. Dad gum shame because he has the boat builder part down pat for his market. If it's his passion he will be back. 




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## Flat's Hunter (Oct 18, 2007)

Hookem1 said:


> I don't understand when you have a customer base where money is no object and you build a 80-90k boat, you cannot make money. Something still does not make sense. Must have been some really poor financial management.


It seems that way on the surface you should make money on a 80-90k boat. But look at the difference between it and a tricked out 24' shallowsport. They are 60-70k. They don't have a 400 Mercury on them. That alone closes the gap real quick. Start adding alot of fancy paint jobs without a big price jump and margins go to nothing. Small operation with low production smaller margin. Like it has been said, it's hard to run a business and make money, especially when government regulations are knocking on the door.

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## cc (Aug 11, 2005)

Hookem1 said:


> I don't understand when you have a customer base where money is no object and you build a 80-90k boat, you cannot make money. Something still does not make sense. Must have been some really poor financial management.


Your exactly right, the Owner of SCB was making the financial decisions, not the production/ operational manger, and we all know who the Owner was!


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## capone (Feb 25, 2013)

Hookem1 said:


> I don't understand when you have a customer base where money is no object and you build a 80-90k boat, you cannot make money. Something still does not make sense. Must have been some really poor financial management.


Production time, quality control, regulations, and raw materials are the things that shrink margins. This type of business takes significant investment to expand when the market expands, and the owner didn't want to spend more. The quality and creativity is what killed the company, sad but that's the world we live in. There is a reason Ranger makes aluminum boats, huge margins that help keep the high end PLs afloat during doe cycles. Simple investing, diversification of product portfolio will keep the lights on.


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## OVERSIZE (Aug 26, 2010)

Custom is nice but not profitable just like cars. Sure it's awesome and people drool over them but at the end of the day does it make $$ no. It takes a lot to keep the doors open. As nice as they were i can see how it would be difficult to do pay roll, cost, rent, bills, etc. In this world it has to make $$


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## rat race (Aug 10, 2006)

Hookem1 said:


> I don't understand when you have a customer base where money is no object and you build a 80-90k boat, you cannot make money. Something still does not make sense. Must have been some really poor financial management.


Not selling enough boats per year to cover overhead.

Maybe now that SS will be semi mass producing them I can finally afford one someday....someday.


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## rglide09 (Mar 21, 2012)

Shallow Sport builds a great boat evidence by their long stay in the business. I'm sure they will do a good job with SCB, however if they will be mass produced the "Custom" part will be lost and I bet that is a lot of the appeal of purchasing a 90K boat. I would have loved to have had one but way over my budget! I think dealers will have a tough sell at that cost if the boats are the same as what was built in the past.


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## bjmillet (Apr 9, 2012)

Okay I'm an emotionless engineer. We just look at what it takes to accomplish a task. We look at fit for purpose. 

Shallow Sport builds quality boats. SCB has several great hulls. If I can get the SCB hulls at a Shallow Sport price, I'm buying. I think a lot more people would pay $50k to $60k for a standard boat than $80k to $90k for a custom. That price difference is like 40 years of gasoline for me.


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## bwguardian (Aug 30, 2005)

I think this is a sad day for the family and I hope things work out for all involved. If the company was running into financial problems in 2006 when times were good, then it was just a matter of time given the economy. If you don't scale back or diversify through hard times bad things can happen.

That being said, this may be an opportunity for Eric to follow his passion. He obviously loves to customize the rigs. Yes they are good hulls he has developed through the years, but if someone else did all the grunt work he could be left with doing what he did best. 

So here is the scenario, Shallow Sport now builds the already proven hull for a decent price point...but lets say they lay the hull up for a customer not totally finished for even a little less money. This hull then goes off to Eric to have him concentrate on what he does best...finish and customize the hull for the client.

Not sure if too much damage has been done at this point for this scenario, but there is always another way to make things happen...


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## GasparSlammer (Apr 4, 2016)

fishin shallow said:


> Dually rolling on 24's ain't cheap.


Nope


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## danthrc (Jun 19, 2007)

bjmillet said:


> Okay I'm an emotionless engineer. We just look at what it takes to accomplish a task. We look at fit for purpose.
> 
> Shallow Sport builds quality boats. SCB has several great hulls. If I can get the SCB hulls at a Shallow Sport price, I'm buying. I think a lot more people would pay $50k to $60k for a standard boat than $80k to $90k for a custom. That price difference is like 40 years of gasoline for me.


Spot on ^^^^


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## bscooter99 (Dec 22, 2013)

so you guys saying that ss is so much cheaper, go on their website and check out msrps...yeah maybe lower level models can be had for 50-60K, but ss has high prices that creep up to scb and that's with standard equipment. its too bad a bay boat costs so **** much sometimes


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## fattyflattie (May 20, 2008)

fishin shallow said:


> Dually rolling on 24's ain't cheap.


That's one of the first things I thought of. Was surely never short on the baddest shiny toys.

I keep seeing people say custom custom custom but about 90% were the same exact deck layout with either a 250xs, 300xs, or SHO. A power pole or two. Fusion stereo with some wet sounds. Livorsi controls. Oh and black, black, black, different color, black, black, black. The most custom thing I saw on a regular basis was the sticker kit for the motor. The large logo'd hatch on the front deck, 4 hatches in the back was on almost every boat I can recall. Some had rod lockers. Couple of consoles options.

How is that any more "custom" than a: Tran, shallowsport, Haynie, New Water, Majek, Dargel, Shoalwater or anything built to customer specs on the coast? I got to pick deck layout, stereo, console, everything when I built mine too. There's crazy wait times on some of their models as well, albeit not a year. In fact, there was a thread at one point about doing away with the rod locker option on one of the SCB's (iirc the Recon). That is the Opposite of custom.

A wait time, to me, doesn't have jack to do with "custom". New water used to have a year long wait as well, they just aren't fast enough to be cool I guess. They don't throw rooster tails between the fishing center and Sunday beach and just aren't as cool with Houstons latest group of nouveau riche.

I hate to see business' have issues, especially ones with good/quality products. But reading between the lines, he cashed out in '06 when he sold off his portion of the company. Maybe he had to (I hope not but we never know). With a crystal ball he might not have, but here we are.

I can only imagine all the Daddy's Custom Boats jokes if this would have been any other builder. DCB does t have the same ring though. Interested who will be the next builder the 2cool collective will deem the Tx Coast messiah.


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## kdrake (Jun 15, 2015)

Jeff SATX said:


> Sounds like dad told son, son didn't tell wife, son had high hopes, kept both strung along, time runs out, dad's $ runs out, wife is without a clue. Terrible. I always loved the complete 100% customizable part of SCB. Recently there was an all black SS X3 "last of its kind, never will be made again" and that's not good. Seems like part of the appeal of scb was you're not just another seafoam and white classic burning a shoreline. Now recons will be massed produced to fill up showrooms, but who knows, maybe that's what it takes to run a business...


In Shallow Sports defense of this "there will never be an all black X3 made again" that was just a selling point for that individual.
I just ordered an X3 and COMPLETELY customized it to exactly how I wanted it, and no it will not look like any other X3 currently on the water. Expect photos in a few months, but let me tell you. Wes and I have talked many times back and forth about the boat, and the entire time he has been readily available to answer my every question and make the boat my own. Shallow sport does do "custom" but since they are much more efficient, not every boat built is a custom order boat.


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## DSL_PWR (Jul 22, 2009)

fattyflattie said:


> Interested who will be the next builder the 2cool collective will deem the Tx Coast messiah.


probably the next boat that Eric builds..

just speculating though.


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## cxjcherokec (Feb 20, 2014)

Losing money in business isnt the same a flat out losing money. A low ROI could easily be to blame here. If your payment terms are in dollars and not % you f'd up. If you agreed to pay $2000/month to your investor instead of say 15%, the month where only make $10k you'd be screwed but at 15% you'd only be liable for $1500. IF the agreement was a dollar amount, you could in turn "lose" money based on contract terms. Some may know the terms, I dont. I'm sure in 06, daddy had the money, Eric didn't have the credit or dad's terms were more agreeable to Eric than the banks. On the WWW it appears that the only mistake ERIC made was not being a majority holder. There is a reason ANY accountant or fin advisor never recommends borrowing from family or friends. They'll be the first to cut a check short, default on a payment, get emotional and make rash decisions or ask to extend. It's just BUSINESS and that's why you don't mix family/friendship with business in my book. All that want to jump in and invest are fools without knowing the entire story. Idk who was wrong if anyone here, but good people are just that, a good person doesnt always make a good businessman. If you want to jump in and help Eric than buy a boat from his new company, whenever it pops up but for God's sake don't throw your money at a man who may not know how to handle the business end. I for one appreciated Eric's attention to detail although that wasn't enough for me to buy an scb. The one and only conversation I had with him ended with "scb isn't the boat for you, you want to take everything away from an scb, that makes it an scb". I 100% respected that and if I can get that same hull, without custom coolers, without lipos batteries, without custom wheels, without premium 1 off fabric and be in a $65k ballpark than I'd own one. But at $75k the attention to extreme detail couldn't be justified in the pocketbook.


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## Gottagofishin (Dec 17, 2005)

Money is always and object and customization is expensive. Yellowfins have been brought up a couple of times as an example of a comparable boat. Try buying a custom YF 22 for $90K. You can quickly go over 100K.

Don't know what the business strategy was, but obviously being a custom builder at a 90K price point didn't work.

Would you guys who bought one go over $100K to have one?


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## elgatogus (Oct 27, 2010)

?


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## Yella Fevre (Jun 12, 2007)

Shallowsport bought SCB? Wow, great boat company and with that hull? That ought to make for the perfect bay boat! Wes, make that hull jump out of the water in lower Laguna in 6" of water and count me in! Respectfully -yella fevre

I love the stingray! Cat hull in 6" of water with 250 SHO AND :heart_eyes::heart_eyes::heart_eyes:


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## pipeliner345 (Mar 15, 2010)

beefmaster said:


> I'm sure it'll take time, but I hope father and son can eventually reconcile. To me that's the biggest tragedy here.


This! ^^^^

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## pipeliner345 (Mar 15, 2010)

My custom boat. Bought new in 2011.
Flip flop seat.
Trolling motor.
Front seat. 
150 E-tec
38k
It catches lots of fish. 
Just sayin.









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## fattyflattie (May 20, 2008)

http://discussions.texasbowhunter.com/forums/showthread.php?t=585599

I've only built one boat but is >33% deposit typical? I think mine was closer to 2%, I remember being floored it was so low. I understand this one was a bit "atypical" which leads to higher deposits.


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## younggun55 (Jun 18, 2009)

fattyflattie said:


> http://discussions.texasbowhunter.com/forums/showthread.php?t=585599
> 
> I've only built one boat but is >33% deposit typical? I think mine was closer to 2%, I remember being floored it was so low. I understand this one was a bit "atypical" which leads to higher deposits.


Paying cash at the time I built mine a couple years ago he used to require something like $2500 for a spot in line, then 50% when it goes in the mold, then the rest upon delivery.(my figures may not be exact but it is something in the nature of that). I think when financing he only required the deposit and a letter from the lender.


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## Frontier21 (Apr 30, 2014)

Well no more speculating about what Eric is up to..









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## shooks (May 12, 2010)

The deal between SS and SCB is not even a week old,In the near future I bet it turns out positive for all involved.


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## Im Headed South (Jun 28, 2006)

Frontier21 said:


> Well no more speculating about what Eric is up to..
> 
> View attachment 2905914
> 
> ...


Yep, one of the 4 or 5 guys that I know that's canceled their orders with SS just bought a Shoalwater Hull and has it on the way to Kemah to be custom rigged by Eric and his guys. Mine might be over there before long for a freshening up and re-badgeing to ESCB, I have zero interest is selling the only full tunnel SR, still think it's the baddest B on the coast .

I know of two other separate groups that were already very close to having hulls very similar to the SCB line up ready to go, one is more for speed hull like a Stingray & F22 and the other a shallow water hull similar to a Recon, these guys aren't fly by night and have invested a lot of capital so it should be interesting to see how this all shakes out. Whether Eric hooks up with one of the new groups or plugs along on his own until he gets his legs back under him, one thing I know for sure he'll be back at some point turning out bad*** boats, it's his gift. You and your entire family will continue to be our prayers Eric, see you soon.

Mike


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## Stuart (May 21, 2004)

Was SCB infusing hulls? Does Shallow Sport infuse any of their hulls?


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## saltaholic (Feb 19, 2005)

Good to hear


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## Hardwired (Jun 12, 2012)

fattyflattie said:


> http://discussions.texasbowhunter.com/forums/showthread.php?t=585599
> 
> I've only built one boat but is >33% deposit typical? I think mine was closer to 2%, I remember being floored it was so low. I understand this one was a bit "atypical" which leads to higher deposits.


Wow! $50,000 on the line and owners of both companies pointing fingers at each other. One company no longer has any assets. That could get ugly.


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## cc (Aug 11, 2005)

Thats the first of many, and the Owner (John Simmons) has to refund out of his pocket, and cover all outstanding bills, there is no winner in this deal,


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## saltaholic (Feb 19, 2005)

Hardwired said:


> Wow! $50,000 on the line and owners of both companies pointing fingers at each other. One company no longer has any assets. That could get ugly.


Would have loved to see that recon with twin 300xs....


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## TWick (Jan 8, 2016)

saltaholic said:


> Would have loved to see that recon with twin 300xs....


I'm with you on that, but wow 160K hwell:


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## bwguardian (Aug 30, 2005)

fattyflattie said:


> http://discussions.texasbowhunter.com/forums/showthread.php?t=585599
> 
> I've only built one boat but is >33% deposit typical? I think mine was closer to 2%, I remember being floored it was so low. I understand this one was a bit "atypical" which leads to higher deposits.


See post #33 in the link above...that is exactly what I thought and stated earlier in this thread...


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## bwguardian (Aug 30, 2005)

Frontier21 said:


> Well no more speculating about what Eric is up to..
> 
> View attachment 2905914
> 
> ...


This is exactly what I stated in post #26...


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## JED (Nov 14, 2004)

Don't break your arm!


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## fattyflattie (May 20, 2008)

younggun55 said:


> Paying cash at the time I built mine a couple years ago he used to require something like $2500 for a spot in line, then 50% when it goes in the mold, then the rest upon delivery.(my figures may not be exact but it is something in the nature of that). I think when financing he only required the deposit and a letter from the lender.


I paid cash, well a big *** check, too. Was just curious if that was typical. I may build another one day and that's so drastic, it had me wondering. Like I said, I was floored when they told me what they wanted for a deposit. Thought it'd be considerably higher.


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## younggun55 (Jun 18, 2009)

fattyflattie said:


> I paid cash, well a big *** check, too. Was just curious if that was typical. I may build another one day and that's so drastic, it had me wondering. Like I said, I was floored when they told me what they wanted for a deposit. Thought it'd be considerably higher.


Haynie definitely does not require the deposit some others do. I guess they know if someone doesn't end up paying they can sell the boat easily and they have the capitol to do it unlike some other companies. I was just saying what my experience with purchasing through SCB was like with the deposit and the payments.


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## fattyflattie (May 20, 2008)

Thanks younggun. Good perspective since you've owned both. Like I said, such a delta I don't know what's the norm.


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## Coastline Marine (Jan 27, 2008)

On A custom order Shallow Sport we take 10% down when you place your order and you pay the balance when it is hooked up to your truck. 

Not sure what others do but that is our policy.


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## cc (Aug 11, 2005)

The deposits are going to be interesting!


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## Navi (Jun 2, 2009)

I'm surprised, I would have thought that you buy the business you'd be on the hook for any deposits as well. 


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