# Beginner fly fisherman looking to upgrade



## ICK (Dec 3, 2021)

Iv recently got back into fly fishing and tying my own custom flies(saltwater mainly) currently I have a redington crosswater 9ft 8 wt and I was considering upgrading to a st croix imperial salt 9ft 8wt with an orvis hydros as the reel and was wondering if that setup would be a significant upgrade and worth the money to purchase


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## squid013 (Jan 8, 2016)

Its really about what fits your casting stroke and style. I prefer sage's faster rods, and find st. Croix rods to feel slow and a bit dead comparatively...that is just my feelings, but you might find the st. Croix perfect.

Ive heard nice things about the hydros. If you are wanting to do salt water in higher winds, i would look into sage's Salt HD

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## karstopo (Jun 29, 2009)

No, I’d say no, not worth it and that’s nothing particular against the rod or reel mentioned. 

You will barely ever use the reel beyond holding line. Truthfully , most slot reds can be well managed off the reel. If a better slot or small bull happens to run onto the reel and take out some line and a little of the backing, any reasonable drag on a cheap reel with minimal pressure will work. Maybe if you get into tippet class records and want to go super light on the tippet, a high quality reel with a low inertia drag would be something to consider. 

If you happen to go somewhere with consistently bigger fish like Louisiana, the way over the slot redfish or go after things like big strong hard running jacks or tarpon then you aren’t likely going to be using your 8 weight rigs for that anyway. 

I don’t get excited about fancy rods for redfish around here either. Average shot is 40-45 feet. Maybe once in a while maybe you have to do something 60 or 70 feet. You don’t need high tech, fast, the latest or greatest or even last year’s latest and greatest for that, or 10 years ago latest and greatest. You won’t likely be out sight fishing a bunch in big winds so the fast expensive rod to cut through wind rational goes away. I do most of my sight fishing with $70 7/8 weight Cabelas CGRs. I do carry a fast G.Loomis 7/8 weight Short Stix for those times when I’m out in the harsh wind, but I’m not sure how much great sight fishing happens in those days in truth. Big Wind means stirred up water, chop, and tons of impediments to seeing fish. We already have enough issues with marginal water for sight fishing. 

So if you are trying to squeeze out a little more line speed for a few extra feet with the fancier rod, is it worth it in a practical way? I’d say most of the time, no.


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## ICK (Dec 3, 2021)

So I should just keep the setup I have? I’m planning on fishing for reds like you mentioned as well as sheepshead,mangrove snapper, small tarpon, Spanish mackerel and some other nearshore species


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## squid013 (Jan 8, 2016)

ICK said:


> So I should just keep the setup I have? I’m planning on fishing for reds like you mentioned as well as sheepshead,mangrove snapper, small tarpon, Spanish mackerel and some other nearshore species


Its honestly about feel to me. The higer end rods have better sensitivity and feel to them...i build both expensive and budget blanks. A moderate sized red will take you to the reel. A decent reel is a niceity not a necessity. 

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## ICK (Dec 3, 2021)

I was also considering buying an mhx native blank and custom making a rod


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## ICK (Dec 3, 2021)

ICK said:


> I was also considering buying an mhx native blank and custom making a rod


Actually after doing some reading online I don’t think the mhx blanks are very good bang for buck


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## karstopo (Jun 29, 2009)

It’s really just a personal choice sticking with what you got or getting something new. Can you make reasonably accurate casts with what you currently have to expected or experienced fishing distances? If yes, then why bother getting something new? If you cannot direct the fly to the target at the distances you fish, then is it the equipment or something going on with your cast? These are the questions I ask when I go fishing. Will the more pricey rod and reel combination you are considering necessarily make better presentations? If so, why do you believe that to be the case? 

Basically, new gear is to better solve a problem that cannot be solved as well or adequately with the old gear. I’d look at what or where your current rod/reel combination is letting you down, if in fact it is letting you down, and honestly look at what the “upgraded” set up will fix. 

One long term tennis coach I know well remarked about these kids of his teams that got pricey, high end, tennis rackets. He said in no way are their abilities even close enough to being in the league where the 50 dollar racket wouldn’t do everything as well as the 400 dollar one. 

Know that some of these accuracy fly casting champs use first generation graphite rods from decades ago. Just because something is new or more expensive doesn’t mean it is better.


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## karstopo (Jun 29, 2009)

So you might ask why I picked a $70 fiberglass CGR over something much more expensive. I have cast and do possess much more expensive rods. 

What does the 7’6” 7/8 weight fiberglass rod do well? One, I have found I can generally and normally cast it accurately enough to sighted fish to at least 70 feet and even beyond (such a rare event where I fish) without expending too much effort or making excessive false casts. I sight cast a 6+# pound speckled trout standing in my Commander Kayak with a size 4 borski slider at 70 feet at least, one false cast, left handed (I’m right dominant) cast target window was constrained by hard and sharp, barely submerged or semi-exposed shell one to two feet beyond the fish. Target was about 4 feet from a left to right slowly moving fish in 1’ foot of water. I nailed my target and got the eat and brought the fish to hand. 

Did I get lucky? Sure, luck is always involved. So is knowing my set up. Knowing the conditions, having a great feel with the set up, confidence in the set up, lots and lots of real live on the water practice and real live fishing experience. But, I’ve had enough lucky casts with this set up that it cannot all be luck. 

Why else do I like fiberglass? One, big hefty upper slot reds and baby bulls will often dive under the kayak. What I want is a deep flexing glass rod to handle these “oh s**t” moments. Do I really want a $400 or more lightly built, fast, stiff and relatively brittle 9’ carbon outfit then? No, Not so much. 

I didn’t start out with the 7’6” CGRs. I started out like most people with a 7 or 8 weight 9’ foot model. Mine was a 7 weight 9’ korean made model. I broke it soon after, not even on a fish, but that’s a different story. Anyway, my fishing experiences led me to wanting something shorter, slower, durable and to easily handle the abuse of kayak fishing in rough, shell-infested marshes. The shorter rod lets me maneuver around tight marshes better, lets me keep the rod tip within the kayak, lets me carry an additional set up or two. 

Point is let your fishing experiences pick your equipment. Your fishing experiences won’t be the same as mine or anyone else’s. Your tastes will be different. Everything is different. I don’t think anyone can pick someone else’s set up as well as the particular user in question. 

But, it’s great to get a wide set of ideas and shared experiences from others. Hard to know all the considerations and perspectives without putting the question up to discuss.


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## Popperdave (Jul 9, 2016)

Upgrading is a natural progression in fly fishing. But before you buy a rod you need to decide what you like and don't like about your setup. If you have problems with distance in the wind a faster rod may be in order. If you feel you work too hard to cast a slower rod may work better. My suggestion is to get with an instructor have him evaluate your ability and make suggestions. He should have several different rods available for you to try so you can feel the difference. Yes it cost money but a $50 lesson is cheaper than a $500 -rod you don't like. 
P.S. the st croix rod is nice but not that much of an upgrade. The TFO axiom would probably be better.


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## squid013 (Jan 8, 2016)

Popperdave said:


> Upgrading is a natural progression in fly fishing. But before you buy a rod you need to decide what you like and don't like about your setup. If you have problems with distance in the wind a faster rod may be in order. If you feel you work too hard to cast a slower rod may work better. My suggestion is to get with an instructor have him evaluate your ability and make suggestions. He should have several different rods available for you to try so you can feel the difference. Yes it cost money but a $50 lesson is cheaper than a $500 -rod you don't like.
> P.S. the st croix rod is nice but not that much of an upgrade. The TFO axiom would probably be better.


For the money the axiom ii is much better to me. I played with an axiom and my xi3 side by side and there was no comparison. Money does buy quality, the sage had more line feel? Was lighter and i was much more accurate at distance with it. The axiom however was more accurate up close as it loaded a bit earlier 

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## ICK (Dec 3, 2021)

does anyone have experience with epic fly blanks?


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## Popperdave (Jul 9, 2016)

ICK said:


> does anyone have experience with epic fly blanks?


I have the epic 686 glass rod. They are great. It's my go to rod for both freshwater and saltwater fly.


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## ICK (Dec 3, 2021)

Popperdave said:


> I have the epic 686 glass rod. They are great. It's my go to rod for both freshwater and saltwater fly.


What about the carbon fiber rods?


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## Popperdave (Jul 9, 2016)

Haven't used the epic carbon blanks. I really like the Northfork Composite carbon rod blanks. Their classic is somewhat softer than their gamma. I also like NFC glass rods they are the best I've found for their price.


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## ICK (Dec 3, 2021)

Popperdave said:


> Haven't used the epic carbon blanks. I really like the Northfork Composite carbon rod blanks. Their classic is somewhat softer than their gamma. I also like NFC glass rods they are the best I've found for their price.


What would you say the best overall 8 wt blank is


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## Golden (Aug 1, 2006)

Again ICK are you listening here? Take the Reddington rod you have now, and learn to use it until you clearly exceed its capacity to perform the shot(s) your are looking to achieve. Its funny how each year the manufacturers make a new must have rod that out performs their last great rod. I use a seventeen year old Sage rod (XP) it fits my easy single back cast, load, and release style. But I have learned to use it very well. Most of my fly fishing is wade fishing and when done correctly you rarely are in need of a cast longer than 40 feet. The recommendation on taking casting lessons is much better for you at this stage than a faster more aggressive rod. And for now don't get caught up in learning a double haul long cast, unless you have great vision, love fishing in windy conditions, and sound like a Sherman tank when wading in foot deep water, YOU DON'T NEED IT! 

I use a Orvis Hydros reel, they are bulldogs with a highly rated drag system. However, they are not light, they run anywhere from $ 250.00 and up. I recommend if you need/want a new reel to go one size smaller than what normally is used for that line, example: if you are fishing an 8 wt rod, floating line and leader, most rod spec's will recommend a Size 4 large arbor for 7,8, and 9 wt rods with 200 yds of backing that you will never need. Get a No. 3 large arbor size for 5, 6, and 7 wts. You will thank me later and remember the reel is only for line storage and initial drag inertia control. The weight savings is considerable and will help you last longer out on the water. If your going to spend any money on your current rig you might look at some of the better lines that are available, and don't go out there and buy the most expensive one either. You can find a very good 8 wt. line for around $60.00 - 75.00. Also since we are talking gear, you need to find a shop in town you trust who will evaluate your abilities, and will recommend gear that fits those abilities. I recommend the guys down at Gordies (because Ive been fishing with several of their guys for close to twenty years) they also have a casting pool where they are happy for you to take advantage of while looking at rods, reels and or lines. Bayou City Angler (BCA), They are very personable as well as highly knowledgeable. Or Fishing Tackle Unlimited (FTU) has three stores full of quality fly gear and good people to get you right! 

If your thinking of fishing for big reds in Louisana, use your guides equipment and see how you do. You'll probably be using a ten weight. If you aren't proficient casting an eight weight all day long, you are not going to do better with a ten weight. Take your time, learn to cast what you have, and catch a boat load of fish. I know a lot of fly fishermen who have a ton of equipment, but when it comes down to the rod they use its the one that they have been fishing for years. Lots of us nowadays are looking for vintage fiberglass and or bamboo rods (collectors) to use to be able to bring back that "its in your hands feel". Fast rods are mostly best for fishing from the front of a poling skiff, which is a whole 'nother game. 

Have you proficient rod building skills, if not leave it up to the professional. Before you get into this addictive sport you need to read the Gear Reduction Act. It was in the Make America Great Again platform. Less is best! Good Luck Friend...Golden


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## ICK (Dec 3, 2021)

Sorry, I was pretty sold on upgrading because the inserts on my eyes have been falling out so I keep having to super glue them lol! Also they have corrosion even though I maintain the rod really well which is kinda annoying….as for an instructor that’s not really in the cards for me because there isn’t really any where I live but I appreciate the advice and I’ll take it into consideration


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## squid013 (Jan 8, 2016)

ICK said:


> Sorry, I was pretty sold on upgrading because the inserts on my eyes have been falling out so I keep having to super glue them lol! Also they have corrosion even though I maintain the rod really well which is kinda annoying….as for an instructor that’s not really in the cards for me because there isn’t really any where I live but I appreciate the advice and I’ll take it into consideration


I can fix the guides for you 

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## ICK (Dec 3, 2021)

squid013 said:


> I can fix the guides for you
> 
> Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk


I appreciate that but I can fix them as well, my thinking process was if I’m gonna be buying new eyes I might as well just spend the money and get a new rod but I think I’m gonna listen to golden and get good with my redington for now


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## Robert W (Nov 24, 2011)

I am still a novice and fish fresh for bass and salt for reds, trout. I am on a budget and this is what I ended up with.

it does not take a lot of money to have effective gear

My reels are low cost with sealed drags - Okuma SLV 7/8 with floating 8 weight forward line. - Piscifun Crest 4 (9/10 size) with a floating 9 weight forward line. - Okuma SLV 5/6 with floating 5 weight forward line - Piscifun Crest 4 (a 5/6 size) with a sinking tip 7 weight line. These reels seemed to offer a lot of features / quality for the money. Why 4, well I wanted to be prepared for various conditions and have some redundancy in case it break something.

Rods are all 4 piece - Okuma Guide Select 5wt, TFO Pro Series 8wt, Piscifun Sword 7wt, currently shopping for a 5wt

All low cost gear but when compared with a buddies 700.00 each rods and 400.00 each reels these are surprisingly competitive rigs in his hands (very accomplished) and in mine (very amateur). I am sure I have less money in my 4 reels and 3 rods than just one of his reels.

I think finding the right rod/line combination is more important than the reel. Just playing around with his gear and mine, the way the rod loads seems to be what makes the difference for me and adds confidence to the cast.


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## Popperdave (Jul 9, 2016)

ICK said:


> What would you say the best overall 8 wt blank is


I would say the sage Payload, or the sage Maverick would be my first picks. Not as fast as some but very cashable. Speedis not everything in fly casting.


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## squid013 (Jan 8, 2016)

Popperdave said:


> I would say the sage Payload, or the sage Maverick would be my first picks. Not as fast as some but very cashable. Speedis not everything in fly casting.


Exactly speed is not everything. There are times for ultra fast and times for slow rods, but much of it is about how the rod matches to your casting tempo and style.

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## squid013 (Jan 8, 2016)

ICK said:


> I appreciate that but I can fix them as well, my thinking process was if I’m gonna be buying new eyes I might as well just spend the money and get a new rod but I think I’m gonna listen to golden and get good with my redington for now


You should have 2 inserted guides, and if the inserts are coming out of the guides they are broken on the ring or the insert. It would be 50 bucks to repair two guides max. Most shops could have it in and out in less than 2 days depending on how busy they are. 

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## Popperdave (Jul 9, 2016)

If you are still looking to upgrade, look at the TFO AXIUM II great rod with RECOIL titanium guides(on inserts). I use them on all my custom rods to avoid your problem of broken inserts. The rod was designed specifically for sight casting in saltwater.


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## Nino10 (10 mo ago)

ICK said:


> does anyone have experience with epic fly blanks?


Yes I do and they’re great


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