# Fishkill Freeze possible Thursday ???



## MATLAW (Jan 31, 2007)

Forecast is in the lower 20's for Thursday morning. We havent had a significant killing freeze since 1989, and history shows that they happen about every 15 years, so we are way overdue. What are yall's thoughts on the likelihood of a fishkill freeze and the effects on the fish population?


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## Arlon (Feb 8, 2005)

Good thing is that it's going to be pretty cold a few days before the big freeze and that will run most of the fish into deeper water before the big drop. 

Be a different story if we where having a few nice clear warm days followed with a quick drop. Don't think as many fish will be caught in the shallows on this one. Wind apparently has lot to do with it too. Calmer the better for the fish, no idea what kind of wind is expected with the temp drop.


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## Brian Castille (May 27, 2004)

Weren't the big freezes in 1983 and 1989 after we had a bunch of above average temperatures catching the fish way off guard for a drastic temperature change? It's supposed to be below 50 for the next few days, so hopefully the fish will find deeper water or it just won't get as cold as they think.


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## Mike in Friendswood (May 21, 2004)

I think Arlon nailed it. The fish have had a long time to get orientated to the colder winter temperatures, and they will be close to where they need to be for a cold snap. With that said, if we get extended (a week) of really cold stuff, then we could seem some fish kill.


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## Wading Mark (Apr 21, 2005)

Brian Castille said:


> Weren't the big freezes in 1983 and 1989 after we had a bunch of above average temperatures catching the fish way off guard for a drastic temperature change? It's supposed to be below 50 for the next few days, so hopefully the fish will find deeper water or it just won't get as cold as they think.


I asked my dad about that and he said both times they were fishing in summer clothes up until the front hit. He said that in 1983 the temperatures stayed below freezing for a week or so. The front coming on friday won't be nearly as bad. If it does kill off a bunch of fish, we all will be doing a lot of tarpon fishing this summer.


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## ktdtx (Dec 16, 2006)

Also-if I recall correctly--in '83 we got to single digits.


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## Blk Jck 224 (Oct 16, 2009)

This Global Warming is really starting to pizz me off.


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## sanleonjohn (Mar 16, 2009)

*fish kill?*

One problem this year, is that the water is already so cold. It won't take it nearly as long to drop down to a critical level. By the way, does anyone know what that is for speckled trout. Also, does anyone know a web site for current water temps in Galv Bay that is actually working. Mine are all whacked out. Wind is supposed to blow really hard with this one!


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## Gilbert (May 25, 2004)

I might be able to go net a full limit finally. :spineyes:


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## Blk Jck 224 (Oct 16, 2009)

sanleonjohn said:


> One problem this year, is that the water is already so cold. It won't take it nearly as long to drop down to a critical level. By the way, does anyone know what that is for speckled trout. Also, does anyone know a web site for current water temps in Galv Bay that is actually working. Mine are all whacked out. Wind is supposed to blow really hard with this one!


Water temp yesterday was 45f.


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## Blk Jck 224 (Oct 16, 2009)

Gilbert said:


> I might be able to go net a full limit finally. :spineyes:


LOL...I'm sure all you potlickers will be stacked up in Offatt's Bayou. :headknock


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## sabiki (Aug 21, 2005)

*temp to kill?*

I've heard when water temp gets to 37, fish start dying. Anybody know if that is the case?


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## capt. david (Dec 29, 2004)

water temp 45 yesterday? i don't buy that. i am quessing it is about 50-55 in the bays. we might see tp&w closing some areas to fishing.


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## railbird (Jan 2, 2009)

*Here you go!*



sanleonjohn said:


> One problem this year, is that the water is already so cold. It won't take it nearly as long to drop down to a critical level. By the way, does anyone know what that is for speckled trout. Also, does anyone know a web site for current water temps in Galv Bay that is actually working. Mine are all whacked out. Wind is supposed to blow really hard with this one!


This site does the whole Texas coast. Just play around with it, it's full of info. PM me if you need to ask questions on how to get around. Water temp at galvaston pier is 58.3 degrees right now, water temp in freeport is 53 degrees right now.

http://lighthouse.tamucc.edu/pq/021

good luck

chuck


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## Trouthappy (Jun 12, 2008)

I think they got a state law now, where tugboats can't use the ICW during
a big freeze. They used to stir up the bottom where the fish stayed
in 12 feet of water, mixing cold water with warm, and that killed many fish. 

I still have pictures from 1989 of dead fish in the Land Cut. In Mansfield harbor, lots of pendajos showed up, and they snagged car trunks full of 8-pound trout. The trout were wandering around on the surface like mullet, easily snagged. We saved a few for the state hatchery, which showed up with a tanker truck. However, the trout couldn't be revived, even when put in warmer water. The biologist told me later it was like their "pilot light was turned off." 

At any rate, there was warm weather before each of those brutal cold fronts in the 1980s. In 1983 Lake Livingston froze all the way across, at least where the Jungle was, because I was there, camping. Our jonboat cut the lake like an icebreaker. I think it was 12 degrees in Beaumont---it cracked everybody's water pipes.


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## MATLAW (Jan 31, 2007)

Thanks guys for all the good info. I was just checking out TPWD's site, and it has a section on Saltwater Freeze Event's, that states water body closures (NO FISHING) for certain areas if water temp's are expected to be below freezing for 3 days or more. Obvious deep water areas where the trout seek refuge from freezing temps. With any luck, I think we are safe from seeing those lasting temps this time around.


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## rcantu (Feb 17, 2009)

Sat-Jan 2, 2010 930am Water Temp was 49.5 degrees in channel leaving Fatboys. Warmed up to 52.5 around 3pm.


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## sanleonjohn (Mar 16, 2009)

railbird said:


> This site does the whole Texas coast. Just play around with it, it's full of info. PM me if you need to ask questions on how to get around. Water temp at galvaston pier is 58.3 degrees right now, water temp in freeport is 53 degrees right now.
> 
> http://lighthouse.tamucc.edu/pq/021
> 
> ...


That is one of my sites. There is no current data from Eagle Point or anywhere else in the bay. Hasn't been for almost a week. Only data is from Galv beachfront. Water temp in bay can be a lot colder than beachfront water.


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## Capt. Hollis Forrester (Jun 17, 2006)

They say this every year, and unless this Arctic Blast keeps temps in the 30's all day, "specially during the day" for a week it ain't going to happen. Water Temps are 54 degrees in Matagorda Bay, now if water temps were in the 44 degree range I'd say we would have something to worry about. By Sunday we will be in the clear unless a second blast backs this one up.


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## SURF Buster (Feb 17, 2008)

Blk Jck 224 said:


> LOL...I'm sure all you potlickers will be stacked up in Offatt's Bayou. :headknock


If I put a corky in the bottom of the net would it still be Potlicken?


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## gater (May 25, 2004)

*Freeze*

Like Capt. Forrester said it will not be cold enough long enough. It's the water temperature not the air temperature you worry about. Right now, the temps are mid 40's to mid 50's depending on what part of the coast you look at. Now if the water temps reached the mid to lower 30's and stayed there for a few days I would be real concerned but I don't think that is going to happen. We have experienced this type of cold weather numerous times since the 89 freeze with no problems. Gater


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## IsleSurfChunker (Sep 25, 2009)

Agreed Gater. In '89 it got down as low as 19 and stayed below freezing for a week. '83 was durn cold too. Both times it happened right around Christmas and lasted past New Years Day. Bad, bad fish kills. Folks snagging trout that were close to record weights. Just cast and drag a Mirrolure like snagging a mullet. I don't think it'll get that cold here, but we've got a ways to go in winter yet.


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## Captain Dave (Jul 19, 2006)

Hey John, You need to run a wireless thermonetor down to the shore and give NOAA updates...LOL.. My link shows a few... http://www.nodc.noaa.gov/dsdt/cwtg/wgof.html



sanleonjohn said:


> One problem this year, is that the water is already so cold. It won't take it nearly as long to drop down to a critical level. By the way, does anyone know what that is for speckled trout. Also, does anyone know a web site for current water temps in Galv Bay that is actually working. Mine are all whacked out. Wind is supposed to blow really hard with this one!


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## sanleonjohn (Mar 16, 2009)

*MIA*

Gosh dog it, do i have to everything myself! Probably need to set up my own website with current observations and readings. Couldn't do any worse than noaa has been doing lately. Hopefully you guys are right and this just turns out to be a close call. I am a little concerned myself.


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## kenny (May 21, 2004)

Those are surface temps I bet. The thermocline at the bottom is warmer.


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## bayhawker (Nov 10, 2006)

*What is the Critical Temp*

I have heard that speckled trout get stressed at about 42F water temp and redfish start stressing at around 36-37 degrees. This appears to be the question everyone is asking here so anyone else have information on the critical temperatures for these pelagics?


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## RedXCross (Aug 7, 2005)

Water temp(surface temp) here on the big Pond of Sabine as of Sunday @ 5:30 pm was 45-47 *.


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## Harbormaster (May 26, 2000)

Trouthappy said:


> I think they got a state law now, where tugboats can't use the ICW during
> a big freeze. They used to stir up the bottom where the fish stayed
> in 12 feet of water, mixing cold water with warm, and that killed many fish.


We've seen the carnage done by the tugboats grinding through the fish like a meat grinder in the ditch! Pretty sad!

I '83 we ran the South shoreline of West Galveston Bay and the bay was a sheet of ice halfway across! You could see the dead fish under the ice!

I agree...this cold snap we're having now will allow the fish to acclimate to what's coming and move toward the deeper water!

Look out concrete bags in Matagorda Harbor! :biggrin:


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## 100% Texan (Jan 30, 2005)

In west matagorda we had somewhat of a minor freeze 3 years ago lots of mullet and bait fish some trout I know Capt.Scott Reeh and hs charter did pick up a 28'' trout that died from the freeze.Iam sure some fish will die if it gets as cold as predicted.I just hope it stays at the very minimal.The last thing we need is a bad fish kill with the way everything else has been going this is already a tough year.


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## Capt Scott Reeh (Jan 21, 2006)

100% Texan said:


> In west matagorda we had somewhat of a minor freeze 3 years ago lots of mullet and bait fish some trout I know Capt.Scott Reeh and hs charter did pick up a 28'' trout that died from the freeze.Iam sure some fish will die if it gets as cold as predicted.I just hope it stays at the very minimal.The last thing we need is a bad fish kill with the way everything else has been going this is already a tough year.


Yep.....LOL...That 2 day charter we ran was brutal......cold and drizzling rain.As 100% Texan stated, in West Matty I found about a dozen trout ( 1 being 28" ) and about 4 dozen mullet that were floating in a cove on the South shoreline.The redfishing was excellent w/ a few trout to boot ! If my memory serves me right....I think the water temp was around somewhere in the 45* range.
I think we'll be ok w/ this blast that we're gonna get this week.Remember.....w/ this cold water...keep your bait " low and slow "


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## sanleonjohn (Mar 16, 2009)

*NC fish kill*

Just checked out a North Carolina fishing site. They have a major trout kill going on right now due to cold. One guy said he estimates 4000lbs of trout were scooped at the north river bridge, wherever that is, including trout up to 12lb. Commercial fisherman were filling up their pickup beds. Water temp was 36 degrees. Expect we will see water temps close to that in galv bay if current forcast holds. Keep your fingers crossed, its going to be close!


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## Brine Jake (Aug 12, 2005)

Capt. Hollis Forrester said:


> They say this every year, and unless this Arctic Blast keeps temps in the 30's all day, "specially during the day" for a week it ain't going to happen. Water Temps are 54 degrees in Matagorda Bay, now if water temps were in the 44 degree range I'd say we would have something to worry about. By Sunday we will be in the clear unless a second blast backs this one up.


A few thoughts:

I dunno the time and temp it takes to get 50 degree water down to 40.

Sabine is reporting 46 today, Gal Pls Pier 56, Freeport 52, Rockport 54.
No data for Eagle Point.

Looking at the forecasts, though, Rockport looks pretty safe so far--
lows 28 for a couple of days, but highs 40 and above. 
Galveston lows 25 and 31, highs 52 and 34. 
Granted it was way colder in '83 and '89.

I wish I could find comfort in the "they say this every year" call. I think 
that's interesting, if it's true, but it ain't up to "them" -- whoever they are.
(Heheh--Fishing has been so good, that's been scaring me all by itself.)

As noted, this may not be the last freezing front.

I wish I could find comfort in the "the trout have plenty of warning to get to deep water" call. I'm no expert, so correct this if it's wrong: Most of the deep water in Galveston is the channel, and tide for Friday is rated as strong. I don't think they can stand that. That leaves the ditch, the coves, and the meat haul hole, which they had better close. The kicker is the trout that try to weather it in the coves. I dunno how good the trouts' internal forecasters are, and I just hope they don't get trapped.

JM Q's and $.02. Not looking for trouble.


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## 24Buds (Dec 5, 2008)

If we do get a fish kill, what are the laws in regard to pickin them up? Can ya eat em? I would rather take whats dead then leave them floating. At least that way it wouldn't be a complete waist.......Hope it doesn't happen, just askin.


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## Fishing Aggie (Aug 22, 2007)

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/publications/annual/fish/freeze/


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## TRW (Nov 30, 2006)

24Buds said:


> If we do get a fish kill, what are the laws in regard to pickin them up? Can ya eat em? I would rather take whats dead then leave them floating. At least that way it wouldn't be a complete waist.......Hope it doesn't happen, just askin.


24 Buds,
My uncle was stopped by a Game Warden In 89 and he made them throw back all of the fish they picked up. My uncle thought the same thing but was glad he did not get a ticket.

TRW


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## 24Buds (Dec 5, 2008)

Fishing Aggie said:


> http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/publications/annual/fish/freeze/


 wow.....A map would be better lol!

I guess I will keep my net at the house!


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## Blue Fury (Nov 5, 2006)

capt. david said:


> water temp 45 yesterday? i don't buy that. i am quessing it is about 50-55 in the bays. we might see tp&w closing some areas to fishing.


i fished yesterday afternoon and my GPS Sonar said 48 degrees at 2 pm in west bay.


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## railbird (Jan 2, 2009)

*Barge traffic*

Lets hope they shut down all barge traffic in ICW for this event.

chuck


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## capt. david (Dec 29, 2004)

water temp at eagle right now is 50.


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## Trouthappy (Jun 12, 2008)

Back in '72 we had a minor little freeze, and trout were floating dead under the commercial docks in Cameron, Louisiana where the shrimpboats were tied up. Not exactly shallow water. We scooped up an Igloo full of trout, just before the Sunrise III partyboat headed out at midnight. We used those 2 and 3-pound trout for cut snapper bait offshore. The trout seemed in good shape, but we didn't think about eating them. Next day (Super Bowl Sunday) I lowered down the head from a 3-pound trout, and caught a 25-pound red snapper. They accidentally gaffed it through one lip, so the owner had it mounted for his office. Traded me a free trip for it.

I was in North Carolina last week during Christmas, taking pictures of anglers in the snow, who were catching rainbow trout in the mountains. The weather wasn't too bad. However, our relatives there now say that temperatures have been about 15 degrees. So this week's cold front must be killing their coastal fish. The first 25 or so pictures in my folder were taken last week, and they're at:

http://seafavorites.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=261


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## Redfishr (Jul 26, 2004)

Brine Jake said:


> That leaves the ditch, the coves, and the meat haul hole, which they had better close.
> JM Q's and $.02. Not looking for trouble.


Our bays are hit by countless numbers of anglers both recreational and professional, daily, and thats OK.
40 or so boats hit one spot for a few days every 15 years or so (Limits still in effect).......and its a meat haul......and should be closed..........OK


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## Redfishr (Jul 26, 2004)

24Buds said:


> If we do get a fish kill, what are the laws in regard to pickin them up? Can ya eat em? I would rather take whats dead then leave them floating. At least that way it wouldn't be a complete waist.......Hope it doesn't happen, just askin.


 You cannot pick them up..........


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## Naterator (Dec 2, 2004)

*harbors*

So, I just want to make sure, the Matagorda and Port Mansfield harbors will be closed to fishing right? Should we be calling TPW to make SURE they will have wardens patrolling these harbors?


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## sanleonjohn (Mar 16, 2009)

*EP*

They finally got Eagle Point back on line. Water temp at 2pm is 47.5 That reading comes from water that is approx. 4 foot deep.


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## MATLAW (Jan 31, 2007)

I just got word that they have canceled the specktacular tourney for Saturday, due to weather. It is only the 2nd time in 10 years that they have had a cancellation...its gonna be nasty out there.


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## Trouthappy (Jun 12, 2008)

Supposed to be 34 in Miami tonight. Maybe that will kill off some of those invasive animals, like the thousand of pairs of nesting pythons that can even kill alligators. It will be hard on the snook, however.


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## glennkoks (Jun 24, 2009)

Its going to be close. It does not have to get to the extremes that it did in 83 and 89 to kill fish. The thing most scary is its supposed to warm up to 60 degrees tomorrow and the fish congregating in the deep waters will move to the warmer shallow waters to feed. 

And it was not warm before the fish kill in 89'. According to the galveston daily news the beach water temp was 51 five days before the big freeze. It is currently 58 degrees.


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## moganman (Mar 30, 2006)

Water temp isn't that high right now man. At least not where I fish. I hear that it's around 50. The air temp tomorrow will only be above 50 for a few hours. That wont affect the water temp that much. Most fish should be fine. The only fish we really have to worry about are those that aren't close to some deeper water like the ICW and/or a deeper channel. Those are the fish in the coves and marshes. If the water temperature is 45 degrees for a sustained amount of time then we should worry, but it'll take water more than 4 or 5 feet a longer time to get that low. Let's just cross our fingers, pray and hope that TPWD closes fishing for a few days after this is over.


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## sanleonjohn (Mar 16, 2009)

glennkoks said:


> Its going to be close. It does not have to get to the extremes that it did in 83 and 89 to kill fish. The thing most scary is its supposed to warm up to 60 degrees tomorrow and the fish congregating in the deep waters will move to the warmer shallow waters to feed.
> 
> And it was not warm before the fish kill in 89'. According to the galveston daily news the beach water temp was 51 five days before the big freeze. It is currently 58 degrees.


 Beachwater is actually 56. At 6am, water temp at Eagle Point is 44.8 I have been keeping track the last several years of wintertime water temps, and that is the lowest reading i have seen. Worst still to come. I think we will get through this without a major kill, but just by the skin of our teeth.


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## Redfishr (Jul 26, 2004)

moganman said:


> and hope that TPWD closes fishing for a few days after this is over.


You and me both dont ever want the state to close fishing......EVER.
It only leads to other closures for what ever the heck they choose......

These freezes have been going on all of my life and there are still fish out there.......Yes it was slow after the 89 freeze but the fish came back as they did in the 83 one and folks were pickin up trout then by the thousands dead or not..
The last thing we want is fishing closures......


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## ol' salt (Jun 11, 2006)

IN '83, the temp dropped to 8 degrees. It caught the fish in shallower water than they are probably in now. Also, it was very cold all the way to Brownsville. Is this going that far south?


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## gater (May 25, 2004)

*Closure to fishing*

Redfishr you want the State to close those areas in the event of a major freeze. It is a temporary closure until the freeze event is over. People will not catch the millions like what died in 89' but when they are stacked in Offats Bayou and other places like it on the coast you can still put a hurt on them, we've seen it before. I think it's a good move on the TP&WD part. Gater


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## Redfishr (Jul 26, 2004)

gater said:


> Redfishr you want the State to close those areas in the event of a major freeze. It is a temporary closure until the freeze event is over. People will not catch the millions like what died in 89' but when they are stacked in Offats Bayou and other places like it on the coast you can still put a hurt on them, we've seen it before. I think it's a good move on the TP&WD part. Gater


NO GATER, I DONT WANT....I have lived and fished this area all my life, and I'm 50. I couldnt DISAGREE with you more.
What do you think the guide/client take is every month in our bays, along with the average to good fisherman ......
I have gone down to POC in recent years and the bays are full of boats in the middle of the week, the weekends are crazy. Most are good fisherman and are bringing in pleny of fish. 
I just saw something in a local magazine that San Antonio bay is getting low on trout,........NO SHEET. *It get hammered daily*.
There are tons more trout taken monthly in the prime months,than will be taken in the few days in offats bayou or Mansfield harbor or any other deep water spot.
Everybody is worried about the joe blow fisherman that hardley ever catches sheet going out and limiting out TO EASILY....They dont work hard enough for it........Well I say get over it.
I'm not saying to exploit the resourse, thats not what I'm saying. But if 5000 or so trout are caught that you wont get to enter into a tournament next month , so be it.
This is something that happens every 10 to 15 years but the ten trout limit is taken daily in the prime months, by many fishermen and accounts for WAY MORE than will be caught this weekend.
Mother Nature will kill more fish than the fisherman ever thought about if it gets too bad.............I've seen it happen TOO.


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## Captain Dave (Jul 19, 2006)

I heard that the state had let peeps take all the fish out of galveston bays from a past fish kill. it was when it was first discovered and the feech were still edible.

Think everyone needs to go and pee in the bay and warm it up some. lol


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## capt. david (Dec 29, 2004)

redfishr what they are trying to protect, if needed are the resident trout. you can't compare what happens during the prime months (may-aug), with the winter months. i am with gator on this issue.


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## Redfishr (Jul 26, 2004)

capt. david said:


> redfishr what they are trying to protect, if needed are the resident trout. you can't compare what happens during the prime months (may-aug), with the winter months. i am with gator on this issue.


Just my views.......everybody has one
I just hate to see bay closures of any kind, as it will only lead to more.
I dont get to fish everyday, only when I get to, I dont want to be kept from it.........and I dont fish for trout much.
I'm done.......


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## moganman (Mar 30, 2006)

The closure wouldn't be for a long time. Just for a few days when the fish are vulnerable stacked up in deeper water. We need to let the fish get back to normal. What would a few days do but do good? They would do it to just help the fish population.


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## Trouthappy (Jun 12, 2008)

They need to close the deeper spots for a week, where the fish are vulnerable and packed together. That way the game wardens don't have to watch a crowd of people, of which many are trying to snag fish. Fretting about "future closures" is daydreaming. You have to protect the fish in a timely fashion when they require it, and that includes shutting down the ICW to tugboats.


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## moganman (Mar 30, 2006)

Trouthappy said:


> They need to close the deeper spots for a week, where the fish are vulnerable and packed together. That way the game wardens don't have to watch a crowd of people, of which many are trying to snag fish. Fretting about "future closures" is daydreaming. You have to protect the fish in a timely fashion when they require it, and that includes shutting down the ICW to tugboats.


Well said Trouthappy. We all need to not worry about NOW but rather for the future of our waters. We have to be conservationists right now. Im praying they close it for about a week. It'll be well worth it.


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## hockeyref999 (Aug 12, 2005)

Trouthappy said:


> I think they got a state law now, where tugboats can't use the ICW during
> a big freeze. They used to stir up the bottom where the fish stayed
> in 12 feet of water, mixing cold water with warm, and that killed many fish.
> 
> ...


You are right about Beaumont, I came back from visiting family in Montana and my ceilings were on the floor. My neighbor cut my water off at the meter when he saw it running down my driveway. It was a balmy -52 deg F in Montana that Christmas - NOT counting the wind chill. Made your skin hurt just standing.


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## MATLAW (Jan 31, 2007)

Lots of good discussion here guys. I strongly agree that we have to take care of our fish populations, and if that means closing a few trout havens during a freeze then so be it. This doesnt mean closing all fishing in all areas during those times, just a few areas where the trout seek refuge. TPWD has a list of those areas on their website, you can check it out by searching "freeze" on their home page. The main concern here is protecting the fish that are still left after a major fish kill.


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## Gottagofishin (Dec 17, 2005)

Latest forecast for Scholes Field is a low of 27 on Saturday morning and 28 Sunday morning. I suspect it will be a couple of degrees warmer directly on the water. That shouldn't create a major fish kill in Galveston Bay.


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## LanceR (May 21, 2004)

*Confusion over freeze closures*

There appears to be some confusion over possible area closures by TPWD during/following a freeze event. The biggest factor with cold-event kills is the speed in which the temperatures drop - fast, and fish become cold stunned and can't move ahead of it; slow, and they will. Their proximity to deep water also plays a role. If fish are a long ways from a ship channel or ICWW then they can get caught with a fast approaching cold front.

In addition to killing game fish in shallow bay waters, a hard freeze can also cause surviving fish to congregate in a few deeper areas where they become sluggish and more prone to capture. The high mortality that a severe freeze can cause may deplete fish stocks for years so the protection of surviving fish during the few days when they are most vulnerable to capture is very important. This is why the TPW Commission in 2004 granted the authority to the Executive Director to close affected areas until the freeze event is over.

There are a limited number of locations that have been identified that would be affected in such a closure and would be limited to only those ecosystems where temperature criteria were met. The complete list of locations can be found at http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/publications/annual/fish/freeze/.

Staff will be monitoring weather forecasts and water temperatures along the Texas coast for the next several days in case such an action is warranted.

Lance Robinson
TPWD Coastal Fisheries
Dickinson Marine Laboratory


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## Blk Jck 224 (Oct 16, 2009)

capt. david said:


> water temp 45 yesterday? i don't buy that. i am quessing it is about 50-55 in the bays. we might see tp&w closing some areas to fishing.


You can buy whatever you want to...But I was there & the Lowrance don't lie. Transducer temperature was 45f in Sabine on Sunday 1/3 & 48f in East Galveston yesterday 1/5. I hope the fish are already deep. We certainly couldn't find any wading in the mud my last two trips.


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## capt. david (Dec 29, 2004)

lance thanks for the input. i was waiting for you to chime in! what took you so long? lol hopeful the weather people got this wrong and it is not going to be so bad!


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## chicken (Mar 21, 2005)

Blk Jck 224 said:


> You can buy whatever you want to...But I was there & the Lowrance don't lie. Transducer temperature was 45f in Sabine on Sunday 1/3 & 48f in East Galveston yesterday 1/5. I hope the fish are already deep. We certainly couldn't find any wading in the mud my last two trips.


x2 on the 48f in East Galveston. I made an unplanned trip to the ANWR Monday morning and was registering 47.6 to 48.0 degrees all morning long until I left at noon. It was WINDY, but I managed 3 dink trout and a red that were all released to fight another day.


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## kenny (May 21, 2004)

46.2 surface yesterday after lunch in West Bay, 48.4 degrees in the canals in JB.


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## glennkoks (Jun 24, 2009)

I dont think the warm up today is a good thing. The shallow water will warm and the fish will head to the warm water to feed. Current bay temps are in the upper 40's and I have read that 40 degrees is the tolerance level for trout and redfish is a few degrees colder. The key will be daytime warming. If we can get out of the mid thirties for a few hours each day we should be ok. Fingers crossed but I expect there will be isolated pockets of dead fish. If we are a few degrees colder than forecast it could get bad.


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## pelochas (Jun 15, 2005)

http://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/da...ure Pier, TX&type=Meteorological+Observations

Temps at Galveston...water 55-60 F and air 35-55 F

http://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/da... Christi, TX&type=Meteorological+Observations

Temps at CC...water 56-52 F and air 40-60 F


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## sanleonjohn (Mar 16, 2009)

pelochas said:


> http://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/da...ure Pier, TX&type=Meteorological+Observations
> 
> Temps at Galveston...water 55-60 F and air 35-55 F
> 
> ...


 That is the beachfront water temp. It doesn't really matter what that is, the trout are not in the surf in the middle of the winter!


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## capt mullet (Nov 15, 2008)

Man I have been sick in bed since Sunday and hopefully will be be better by this weekend. Which means I am so ready to get back on the water and fish!!! But you can be sure I am not going to go out in 28 degree weather to fish in Offats or Moses so I can catch a limit (limits have been easy these past 2 weeks). I have a feeling a lot of people will think the same as me. Therefore closing these areas (in my opinion) is not going to help our fisheries in the long run. Maybe I am wrong but the average joe blow fishermen who doesnt catch fish on a consistent basis is not going to be able to go out and put him and his buddies on limits in Offats. Most joe non-fishermen is a joe blow non-fishermen because he doesnt know about areas like this. ANd I also believe most joe blow non-fishermen are warm weather fishermen and they usually dont fish in winter. You can tell that by looking at a guides booking in the winter which is half the customers of summertime fishing. So closing offats in my opinion is not at all necessary. Do the numbers, closing offats just does not make sense nor does it do any good because it isnt going to hurt our healthy trout populations. Lowering the trout limit to 5 or 7 fish seems to be 1000% more sensible than just closing a bay for 3 days.


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## Nicademas (Jan 31, 2006)

*Not the same..*

I put together a spreadsheet to see what the weather looked like in '83 and '89 as compared to this approaching arctic front.

In Galveston, this front is not predicted to be near the severity of the fronts of '83 and '89.

In '83 there were 5 straight days of average temps at or below freezing in Galveston. The third day of the '83 front was an avg air temp of 25 and low of 19 followed by the fourth day which had an avg temp of 20 with low of 15 degrees. Average air temps dropped almost 35 degrees from 52 just prior to the front to the trough at 20.

The front of '89 had avg air temps dropping about 20 degrees but Dec. 23 had an avg of 19 with the low of 13 in galvez. That had to be brutal on the fishies.

With this front Galveston temps are predicted to avg 33 for Fri & Sat with lows only slightly below that at 29 & 27. Stressful on the fish to be sure, but not at the level of these previous "events" in my opinion. This based on air temps; I don't have the water figures but based on the weather patterns, I am assuming current water temps are not exceptionally high which would then produce greater shock on the fish during the passage.

My useless $0.02.


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## capt. david (Dec 29, 2004)

mullet why lower the limit since we have such a healthy trout population? joe blow fisherman can't catch them anyway as you state! give me a break. closing certain areas is a good thing if needed. i quess you have never witnessed the number of boats in offats when the trout are stacked in there. if you only want to keep five, go down south and fish! the closing of areas will only be needed if tp&w feel that we might truly have a fish kill. save the ones that seek shelter.


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## Sow Trout (Jun 28, 2004)

What are the critical temperatures for trout and for reds?


LanceR said:


> There appears to be some confusion over possible area closures by TPWD during/following a freeze event. The biggest factor with cold-event kills is the speed in which the temperatures drop - fast, and fish become cold stunned and can't move ahead of it; slow, and they will. Their proximity to deep water also plays a role. If fish are a long ways from a ship channel or ICWW then they can get caught with a fast approaching cold front.
> 
> In addition to killing game fish in shallow bay waters, a hard freeze can also cause surviving fish to congregate in a few deeper areas where they become sluggish and more prone to capture. The high mortality that a severe freeze can cause may deplete fish stocks for years so the protection of surviving fish during the few days when they are most vulnerable to capture is very important. This is why the TPW Commission in 2004 granted the authority to the Executive Director to close affected areas until the freeze event is over.
> 
> ...


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## slabseaker (Dec 7, 2009)

Yea, I remember the 1989 freeze. me and my bro were heading out of anahuac NWR duck hunting and were the only wons out there. we were breaking ice going out the main canal and had to break ice to put out our deaks and watch the freeze up side ways in the middle of the hunt....had to go back out and breek the ice up again to get them moving. saw a bunch of dead trout along the shore lines around 8-10lbs. couldnt believe it....heard of a big kill down in mata also at the same time...that was the coldest hunt I have ever had....SS


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## Sow Trout (Jun 28, 2004)

Your patrolling sounds like a good way for you to give back.


Naterator said:


> So, I just want to make sure, the Matagorda and Port Mansfield harbors will be closed to fishing right? Should we be calling TPW to make SURE they will have wardens patrolling these harbors?


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## Trouthappy (Jun 12, 2008)

You boys forget there were two freezes in 1989, one in January, the other in December. The combined death toll on trout was terrible. In 1990 the summer action on trout and reds was very slow. Schools of slot redfish were found all summer at the offshore platforms, where they had had fled.
Back in '89 the trout snaggers took a heavy toll, people filling their car trunks with 8-pounders. And the tugbots churned up the ICW with their big propellors, killing untold fish. So, I say protect the deep harbors and the ICW, when the need arises. And stop worrying about future arbitrary closures, black helicopters, and the like.


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## B-Money (May 2, 2005)

If the freeze kills the fish then I'm blaming Lance Robinson for not putting fuzzy little undies on all the trout to keep their booboo's warm.


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## capt mullet (Nov 15, 2008)

capt. david said:


> mullet why lower the limit since we have such a healthy trout population? joe blow fisherman can't catch them anyway as you state! give me a break. closing certain areas is a good thing if needed. i quess you have never witnessed the number of boats in offats when the trout are stacked in there. if you only want to keep five, go down south and fish! the closing of areas will only be needed if tp&w feel that we might truly have a fish kill. save the ones that seek shelter.


My point wasnt to say that we should reduce the limits (that is another discussion). My point was that 3-5 days of fishing in offats (no matter how many boats) is not going to hurt our healthy populations. That is like saying lets close bird fishing in trinity in october and november because the avg joe blow can go catch a hundred fish. if teh actual number of fish that are harvested in offats in our healthy population is your worry then that would be better corrected by dropping the allowed limits.

If we do have a serious fish kell then the limits should drop immediately. Dont you agree david?


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## glennkoks (Jun 24, 2009)

Nicademas, you are correct this front will not compare to the fronts in 83' or 89. But those were extreme cases. It does not have to get that extreme to have a kill. 8 degree water temp drop will probably hurt.


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## Brine Jake (Aug 12, 2005)

In the past few hours, low temp forecasts have been revised downwards, meaning lower.
(That means colder than before, for anyone who I might have confused.)

Now here's another reason not to sweat fish kills, meat haul hole closures, or global warming:
 The Death Star

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2795981/Supernova-may-wipe-out-the-Earth.html
 *"A Star primed to explode in a blast that could wipe out the Earth was revealed by astronomers yesterday." *

Happy New Year
​


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## sanleonjohn (Mar 16, 2009)

*Huh!*



Brine Jake said:


> In the past few hours, low temp forecasts have been revised downwards, meaning lower.
> (That means colder than before, for anyone who I might have confused.)
> 
> Now here's another reason not to sweat fish kills, meat haul hole closures, or global warming:
> ...


 What fish kill? When is that Death Star due in here!!


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## Brine Jake (Aug 12, 2005)

Sow Trout said:


> What are the critical temperatures for trout and for reds?


I'm surprised no expert has posted it. I don't know. One article I found said that trout are threatened when warmest accessible water is 37 degrees, dead at low 30's. Reds can survive lower temps than trout.

I'm no expert, and I dunno how it works. I guess that although the water is warmer at a deep bottom, the oxygen supply has to be there, too.


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## Brine Jake (Aug 12, 2005)

Sowtrout asked about critical temps:


Brine Jake said:


> I'm surprised no expert has posted it. I don't know. One article I found said that trout are threatened when warmest accessible water is 37 degrees, dead at low 30's. Reds can survive lower temps than trout.
> I'm no expert, and I dunno how it works. I guess that although the water is warmer at a deep bottom, the oxygen supply has to be there, too.


FYI More news from Shannon Tompkins, quoting Lance R, Chronicle
http://blogs.chron.com/shannontompkins/2010/01/coastal_fisheries_bracing_for.html

"Speckled trout begin having potentially lethal problems when water temperature around them drops to about 45 degrees," Robinson said.
"Redfish are a bit hardier, and don't see problems until water temperature drops below 40 degrees."


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## Fishin-Inc (May 27, 2004)

*darned it*

It sure is warm right now. I wish it was colder this morning.


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## Wading Mark (Apr 21, 2005)

Just an FYI, water temp was 47.1 yesterday in West Bay. Caught a few fish in really deep water so I think they've already moved ahead of the weather.


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## Trouthappy (Jun 12, 2008)

Here is a list of the areas that can be closed, if the state deems it necessary:

To quote from the Chronicle:

When temperatures on the coast are predicted to fall below 32°F for three or more days, the TPWD executive director may close one or more of the sites listed below for saltwater fishing until the threat from the freeze event is over. This NOTICE OF CLOSURE will be made available to local media.

Looks like Offats Bayou and the Army Hole at POC are on the list.
List of Texas sites that can be closed to fishing in cold weather:

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/publications/annual/fish/freeze/


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## chronotrigger (Dec 18, 2008)

capt mullet said:


> My point wasnt to say that we should reduce the limits (that is another discussion). My point was that 3-5 days of fishing in offats (no matter how many boats) is not going to hurt our healthy populations. That is like saying lets close bird fishing in trinity in october and november because the avg joe blow can go catch a hundred fish. if teh actual number of fish that are harvested in offats in our healthy population is your worry then that would be better corrected by dropping the allowed limits.
> 
> If we do have a serious fish kell then the limits should drop immediately. Dont you agree david?


Well said. I'm with Redfishr and Mullet on this one. Closures won't be necessary and the impact of people fishing Offats and other deep water areas will not be near what most of you think. That's just like saying people up north shouldn't be able to fish the salmon run because the fishing will be too easy. The same thing goes for white bass going up creeks and rivers to spawn. Deer hunting should be closed during the rut because it makes getting a goodun' a whole lot easier. Same idea, different circumstances. To me trout isn't good enough to freeze your arse off for. BooHoo you guys.


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## capt. david (Dec 29, 2004)

the closing is too protect the fish that might survive if we have 72 hours of below freezing temps! i don't think it will come into play with this front. if a situation did occur where we have a fish kill dropping the bag limit would make sense, along with the closing of certain areas.


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## Gilbert (May 25, 2004)

sounds like I need to be fishing in Offats this weekend to snatch up a limit. :cheers:


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## DANO (May 23, 2005)

Gilbert said:


> sounds like I need to be fishing in Offats this weekend to snatch up a limit. :cheers:


there is a lake by the M.O.B where can find your limit and you will never leave the bank,...:biggrin:


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## Brine Jake (Aug 12, 2005)

capt. david said:


> the closing is too protect the fish that might survive if we have 72 hours of below freezing temps! i don't think it will come into play with this front. if a situation did occur where we have a fish kill dropping the bag limit would make sense, along with the closing of certain areas.


I agree.
As of 0945 today, Galveston forecasts air temp below freezing only 1 day , Rockport shows 2 days. Baytown is same as Houston, 4 days low below freezing.
All stations still forecast daily high air temps above freezing. Forecasters 
overestimate temp drop (They say it will get colder than it actually gets) in almost every front. (I'm headed to Saskatchewan ahead of the Death Star Blast.)

Anybody listen to Eastman/Bennie this morning?


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## Gilbert (May 25, 2004)

DANO said:


> there is a lake by the M.O.B where can find your limit and you will never leave the bank,...:biggrin:


tell me about this lake :rybka:


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## DANO (May 23, 2005)

Gilbert said:


> tell me about this lake :rybka:


:rotfl: :rotfl:


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## gater (May 25, 2004)

*Chronotrigger*

It's obvious you have not witnessed what can happen in Offats Bayou when conditions are like that. The fish need some protection until the weather conditions change. Gater


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## moganman (Mar 30, 2006)

Brine Jake you are weird. Where's your faith? Why do you want to put fear into people worrying about some 'death' star?


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## chronotrigger (Dec 18, 2008)

gater said:


> It's obvious you have not witnessed what can happen in Offats Bayou when conditions are like that. The fish need some protection until the weather conditions change. Gater


I haven't seen it when a freeze this hard hits but have seen it when a period of cold weather settled in. The fishing was good there. There wasn't a mass of people fishing, and it did not seem unsporting in the least. I don't think it makes a dent in the population. The freeze is what does. I did not witness any of the freezes back in the eighties. This willl be nothing like those times from what it sounds like. The cold will have less people on the water overall. So what if there is more people congregating in this spot that is hardly fished. I have been wrong countless times before, but I would venture to say that more fish are caught on summer days when shat loads of people are zipping across the bay. Just out of curiousity, how many many people were fishing at offats during those times back then when a strong cold front would move through?


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## Action Jackson_1 (Nov 18, 2008)

Amen Brother!











moganman said:


> Brine Jake you are weird. Where's your faith? Why do you want to put fear into people worrying about some 'death' star?


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## Action Jackson_1 (Nov 18, 2008)

I agree.....only the diehards like myself have the cahonas to fish in sub zero whether........



chronotrigger said:


> I haven't seen it when a freeze this hard hits but have seen it when a period of cold weather settled in. The fishing was good there. There wasn't a mass of people fishing, and it did not seem unsporting in the least. I don't think it makes a dent in the population. The freeze is what does. I did not witness any of the freezes back in the eighties. This willl be nothing like those times from what it sounds like. The cold will have less people on the water overall. So what if there is more people congregating in this spot that is hardly fished. I have been wrong countless times before, but I would venture to say that more fish are caught on summer days when shat loads of people are zipping across the bay. Just out of curiousity, how many many people were fishing at offats during those times back then when a strong cold front would move through?


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## gater (May 25, 2004)

*Chronotrigger*

At times in the past you could walk from boat to boat in Offats, many people making two trips a day. I don't disagree with you about catching the fish in the summer but you have to remember the average angler has trouble fishing birds and slicks and yet there are many who can get an easy limit. The difference is, those fish are from many different schools spread over a wide area in several different bays. Those summer fish can move around as they please making the angler work for his catch. The fish in Offats cannot, they are gathered there for one reason and that is to survive. They are primarly West Bay fish, they are hungry and if you put a lure in their face they are going to eat. Kinda like fishing in a bathtub, the angler has the advantage. The temporary restrictions the TP&WD can impose are just to give the fish a chance at surviving the weather. Once the freezing weather has passed most of the fish will move again and the restrictions will be lifted. Gater


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## capt. david (Dec 29, 2004)

guys right now the lows for galveston on friday and saturday are only 30. keep fingers crossed!


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## Gilbert (May 25, 2004)

who wants to take me fishing in offats this weekend? sat/sun work for me.


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## capt. david (Dec 29, 2004)

hell with offats! i know a lake right off of it that can be better!


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## gater (May 25, 2004)

*Capt. David*

I know what your talking about and your right! Please don't tell Gilbert, we don't want him potlicking our fish! LOL

Gater


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## Brine Jake (Aug 12, 2005)

moganman said:


> Brine Jake you are weird. Where's your faith? Why do you want to put fear into people worrying about some 'death' star?


Moganman, and Action Jackson 1, Thanks for noticing. I do my best. Without faith, it is hard to be open about being weird. But I don't want to put fear into you or anyone else. For that, I offer you my apologies. I was just joshing. A little nostalgia, a little comic relief for me. For others, maybe not. Sorry about that, Gentlemen.

We can all relax now about the freeze and give thanks that the lows for the bay have been revised upward once again. I will have faith that I'll be long gone before there's another big fish kill. Three or four is enough for one lifetime. (If I come back as a fish, maybe I'll be a halibut. They can take it, and they don't decoy in for topwaters like big specks do.)

So I don't really worry about the Death Star, even though I did read that whole news article. The world's gotta end somehow, some time. As you know, it's not up to us. And I'm not really headed up to Saskatchewan this weekend. I was joshing about that, too.

Best to y'all,
BJ
"Try imagining a place where it's always safe and warm
Come in she said, I'll give ya, shelter from the storm." (Bobby Zimmerman)


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## chronotrigger (Dec 18, 2008)

*so*

I have been deer hunting lately and would like to catch some fish. Can you catch them from the shore along 61st? I would like to go for a couple hours if they don't close it down. I'd only keep 3-5 fish.


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## capt. david (Dec 29, 2004)

gater, gilbert who? lmao!


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## Brian Castille (May 27, 2004)

gater said:


> I know what your talking about and your right! Please don't tell Gilbert, we don't want him potlicking our fish! LOL
> 
> Gater


Yeah, you gotta watch out for Gilbert. Although, I did take him to a secret spot one time and he hasn't spilled the beans about the location yet


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## glennkoks (Jun 24, 2009)

The key may be in the the cloud cover. If it stays cloudy we will not warm to the 39 predicted for the high tomorrow in Galveston. If the sun stays out it should warm the water enough to avoid a kill. According to the sciguy on the chronicle we just missed out on one of the top ten coldest decembers in our history and the water temps are already very cold. On top of all that the North wind at 40 will drain the bays. It is going to be very close.


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## crashboatbasin (May 21, 2009)

there will be no fish in offats , stay far away from there!!!!! when it gets cold like this all the trout swim south for the winner!!!!


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## Brine Jake (Aug 12, 2005)

crashboatbasin; said:


> Is that the girl from the San Luis Pass redfish photo from a few years back?
> 
> BJ
> "Turn it up!" (L. Skynnard)


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## BOI43fish (Mar 10, 2007)

Extreme low tides with water blown out of the bays and extended temps below freezing did the number in 83 and 89. It's a real concern this time. Let's hope for the best.


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## sanleonjohn (Mar 16, 2009)

*not good*

At 8am, water temp at Eagle Point has fell to 41.3. Down 7 degrees from yesterday morning. Air temp 27. Tide level down to 2.5 ft, which is the first time i have seen it fall below 3. No sun out there to help warm things. Not looking good. Hope all the fish have found their way to deeper water by now. Next 24hrs critical.


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## fishsmart (Dec 5, 2004)

Mid 30's water temp in POC is a concern. We will wait and see what happens.

Charles


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## capt. david (Dec 29, 2004)

water temp eagle point 36


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## Brine Jake (Aug 12, 2005)

capt. david said:


> water temp eagle point 36


I assume that's surface temp. Are any data collected from deeper water?
Question for chem/physics scholars: How much longer will it take for deep water to get uninhabitable at current and predicted temperatures? Can it stand another night of this?


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