# Charlie's Bait Camp, Seadrift - Question?



## Omega (Jun 11, 2010)

Can anyone tell me what time Charlie's opens up for business on a week day, the condition of the ramp, and the availability of live bait there? I've called them several times but cannot get an answer on the phone. Thanks for your help - you are greatly appreciated!


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## Fishin' Texas Aggie 05 (May 27, 2012)

should have live shrimp today

they could get shrimp but couldnt keep them alive in the fresh ICW water

dont forget the $5 launch/park fee


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## pocfishin (Jan 22, 2006)

Launched there on Monday morning at 7 am.

Mr. Gray was already there. He was busy unloading from a shrimp boat.

Ramp is fine. 

Parking lot has been graded and pot holes were filled in.


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## Omega (Jun 11, 2010)

*Opening Time for Charlie's ?*

Thank you for your responses; can you tell me what time Charlie's opens for business?

Also, is Coyote Pass open to enter Espirito Santo Bay? Thanks.


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## Trailer Rig (Jul 25, 2011)

Omega said:


> Thank you for your responses; can you tell me what time Charlie's opens for business?
> 
> Also, is Coyote Pass open to enter Espirito Santo Bay? Thanks.


Pretty skinny through the pass, unless high tide.


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## Fishin' Texas Aggie 05 (May 27, 2012)

plan to take my kayak through it friday mornin and fish dewberry bay (small bay to the left)

if youre taking a boat stay in the middle and then favor the right side.


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## SSST (Jun 9, 2011)

Fishin' Texas Aggie 05 said:


> plan to take my kayak through it friday mornin and fish dewberry bay (small bay to the left)
> 
> if youre taking a boat stay in the middle and then favor the right side.


Man, I haven't used it in a couple of years til about a month ago, the boat lane is very narrow now. I found out the hard way!


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## ddakota (Jun 28, 2009)

Use it all the time - Launched there last weekend at 6AM and was late, parking lot had a dz trucks or more in it already. I have launched there as early as 5am and someone was there to take my $5

Live bait was available but I didnt get any, salt water has come back in the IC some, so I guess he can keep bait alive.

I always hit the pass going fast - The pass is tricky, get on plane, jack plate up and go fast, hug the right hand side as you go out, especially close to the cut into Shoalwater on the right. Seems like I almost always see a boat that stayed too far left (east) and ran aground.


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## Aggieangler (May 28, 2004)

That, and stay up on your jack plate past the first bar into the bay. It is hairy some days too on a low tide. Been running in and out of there for years, always stay to the right side outbound.


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## SSST (Jun 9, 2011)

Yeah, I figured I was far enough to the right, but I wasn't. I came back in wide open and jacked up, lol. Crazy thing is up to about 3 years ago, Mr. Gray would run his shrimp boat thru there, that ain't happening anymore.


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## Omega (Jun 11, 2010)

*Alternate to Coyote Pass Question?*

Since coyote pass is a bit tricky and with increased risk of grounding for a skipper not familiar with it at first light; would a safer alternative entry to E. S. Bay be the channel going to the Matagorda Island State Park?

What I am trying to do is to go westward from that channel and fish the north shoreline Dewberry Island and Long Island areas - I would appreciate any guidance for this route and fishing area?

Thank you for your excellent comments and guidance, you all are much appreciated.


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## ATE_UP_FISHERMAN (Jun 25, 2004)

Hug that west side of Coyote Pass.. It gets crazy shallow the closer you get to the bay.


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## fido98 (Oct 18, 2011)

My place is in Seadrift so I usually buy bait at the Harbor and launch at Swan Point if I'm fishing Shoalwater/Pats Bay/South Pass or drive down to POC if fishing the north part of Espiritu Santo. Whatever time I lose driving I make up for by a factor of four in not having to clean all the dirt off my truck from Charlie's. I really like the the location, but, after my last trip I decided I'm done with Charlie's due to the parking lot. Graded or not my boat ends up filthy from launching and my truck ends up filthy when pulling the boat out.


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## [email protected] (May 24, 2004)

Coyote Pass? I've been here a long time and never heard the cut leading to ESB from the ICW across from Charlie's Bait Camp called Coyote Pass. Years back when the Welder Ranch still had buffalo roaming around they'd go back and forth to the spoil island between Shoalwater Bay and the ICW...naturally some of the newer folks began calling it Buffalo Cut or Pass but it never caught on. The Welder family ended up donating the buffalo to the park at Palo Duro Canyon...thank God, they were a nuisance! 

Way back - like in the 60s - the locals called it Alcoa Cut because Alcoa dug it to run production/work boats to their many wells that dotted Espiritu Santo - at least that's what the oldtimers have told me. Anyway, those wells are all long gone.

When Neal and Pepper Fulghum ran what is now called Shoalwater Flats Association (the other side of Lane Road from Charlie's) it became known as Fulghum's Cut. More recently some folks have taken to calling it Charlie's Cut given the proximity of the bait camp. I still call it Alcoa Cut.

Call it Coyote Pass or what you will...it is definitely silting in at a frightening rate. As recent as 10 years ago you could not wade across...it was that deep and quite wide. Tug wash is likely the cause of the silting. When the fish house next to Charlie's was still open and the shrimpers used it every day their wheel wash probably helped keep it flowing. Won't be long and it'll go the way of Cliburn's Cut. That one closed for good in the late-90s.


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## SSST (Jun 9, 2011)

Yeah, Coyote Pass was a first for me also. I've always called it Fulhgram's Cut, i remember buying bait when Charlie's was still Fulhgram's.


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## Fishin' Texas Aggie 05 (May 27, 2012)

Is there anything that can be done to drege it?


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## juan valdez (Jun 21, 2014)

SSST said:


> Yeah, Coyote Pass was a first for me also. I've always called it Fulhgram's Cut, i remember buying bait when Charlie's was still Fulhgram's.


this makes sense, i was curious where this coyote pass was. fulhgrams is what i always heard it called as well

to answer OP, going through the ferry cut there is a sand bar as well, i believe it's on the west side of the cut but i'm not positive. you can usually see it pretty well defined though and it's easy to navigate around. as you come down the ICW and turn in to the cut, just swing a bit wide. if you look on google earth it's very clearly outlined. the actual channel is good to go though


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## Aggieangler (May 28, 2004)

Omega said:


> Since coyote pass is a bit tricky and with increased risk of grounding for a skipper not familiar with it at first light; would a safer alternative entry to E. S. Bay be the channel going to the Matagorda Island State Park?
> 
> What I am trying to do is to go westward from that channel and fish the north shoreline Dewberry Island and Long Island areas - I would appreciate any guidance for this route and fishing area?
> 
> Thank you for your excellent comments and guidance, you all are much appreciated.


You would be plenty safe launching at Charlies and then heading towards POC in the ditch until you get to Army cut, right past the pier on the left. You can safely navigate Army cut in anything short of a barge.  I prefer launching at Charlies over the madness that is parking at POC, even if they have a little mud in the lot on occasion. I am happy to hear they have recently graded it.

It seems like they could find a fishing pavement contractor willing to trade free launch for life, for a parking lot pave job.


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## Pocketfisherman (May 30, 2005)

I have always know it as Fulghrum's Cut ever since the late 1970's...


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## SSST (Jun 9, 2011)

All i can say is i hope when I'm 85 I'm still worried about what cut to take into a bay!


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## ddakota (Jun 28, 2009)

Depending on your boat, I don't think there is any reason you can't putt putt slowly through "Coyote", "Buffalo", "Fulghram" Cut or whatever you want to call it. People run aground because they are going fast and are in the shallows before they realize they are on the wrong path. I've done it when I've hit the cut and there's a yakker paddling through it, slowed down and putted behind him, once he turned off into Dewberry or Shoalwater, kick it up and go. 

Sure beats running those miles east ......


DB


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## Omega (Jun 11, 2010)

*"Army Cut" Question?*

Is the Army Cut the same as the cut or channel leading the Matagorda Island State Park area?


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## SSST (Jun 9, 2011)

Omega said:


> Is the Army Cut the same as the cut or channel leading the Matagorda Island State Park area?


I've always known it as the Army Cut.


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## Aggieangler (May 28, 2004)

ddakota said:


> Depending on your boat, I don't think there is any reason you can't putt putt slowly through "Coyote", "Buffalo", "Fulghram" Cut or whatever you want to call it. People run aground because they are going fast and are in the shallows before they realize they are on the wrong path. I've done it when I've hit the cut and there's a yakker paddling through it, slowed down and putted behind him, once he turned off into Dewberry or Shoalwater, kick it up and go.
> 
> Sure beats running those miles east ......
> 
> DB


I agree....if you want to fish the south shore, just head out, right there by Charlies. It is not as treacherous as it sounds, especially if you have a clear water day with high sun angle. Maybe head out one afternoon, so the sun is high, when it is your first time, and see the channel. We've never had much issue running in there with a heavier bay stealth.


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## Aggieangler (May 28, 2004)

SSST said:


> All i can say is i hope when I'm 85 I'm still worried about what cut to take into a bay!


Amen brother....

Speaking of which....here is my 92 year old grampa with me at Charlies one day....


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## Aggieangler (May 28, 2004)

Omega said:


> Is the Army Cut the same as the cut or channel leading the Matagorda Island State Park area?


Army cut is the first big cut past Charlies, as you head towards POC. Don't cut the corner on the way in, as there is a flat on the NW edge. Sometimes there are fish there too, depending on bait.

Check out the map here and zoom into the area around POC. The big cut with markers in it, is the one you want, between Blackberry and Dewberry island, if you are looking for Army cut.

http://www.stxmaps.com/map/default.cfm


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## Omega (Jun 11, 2010)

*Affermation of directions through Coyote Pass?*

Thank you all for your excellent responses; you all are great!
Review with me these points about getting into E. S. Bay through Coyote Pass with my 16 ft. Majek Texas Skiff:


First time with good light to see shoaling and channel
Stay to the right (West) going into E.S. Bay
Go through at planing speed with jack plate up
Best during high tide
Launch at Charlie's is safe and satisfactory
Let me know if I have it right?
Add any comments you wish for clarification
Also any comments on fishing the north shoreline of E.S. Bay.


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## Fishin' Texas Aggie 05 (May 27, 2012)

Charlies does have live shrimp and croaker

The shrimp are big white shrimp


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## Spooby (Jun 28, 2016)

Going to take the kids out shrimping in the morning. Anyone see the shrimp boats out in SAB or ESB?


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## dukhunter (Aug 30, 2007)

There is a sign in Dewberry north of the big cut that says Coyote Pass. We found the sign knocked over while fishing/scouting.


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## juan valdez (Jun 21, 2014)

SSST said:


> I've always known it as the Army Cut.


not sure why buy i flip flop back and forth calling it either army cut or ferry cut. 

Omega, your last post is the way I have read all the tips on here as well about going through that cut. I am not familiar with it so can't say for sure, but again, that is the way i read the advice of all from this thread


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## Omega (Jun 11, 2010)

Juan Valdez, Thank you for the affirmation.


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## Red3Fish (Jun 4, 2004)

When we first started fishing POC in the mid 60's, I heard some old timers refer to what I took to be Charlies, as Bob and Leonards. 

No help, just for informational purposes only.

Later
R3F


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## dalealan (Jan 19, 2016)

My Dad brought us to fish on Lane road in the mid 50's. We rented a lot there on the canal. This was on the left side of Lane road. On the right side was a harbor with a loading ramp for barges to load oil field equipment to work on the Alcoa Aluminum gas wells in Espiritu Santos Bay, San Antonio Bay, and Matagorda Bays, it was called Alcoa Landing, Alcoa dredged the cut for easy access to bays. The Landing was not open to the public. Lane road was a divider road between land owned by John Welder Ranches on the west side and Bill Bauer on the east side. Mr Bauer owned some dredges in Port Lavaca and worked all the bays around there, he owned all the land to Port O Conner, south of Hwy 185

Also my Dad and his buddy used to go down Lane road In the 30's to duck hunt. This was before the canal was even there! They went down in a Ford Model A pulling a wooded skiff and hunted in Shoalwater.

Anyway the camp on the east side in the 50's was leased by a old Pirate looking guy with a honest to goodness wooden peg leg. He had a small shrimp boat and sold bait and rented lots. He had basically the same size acreage as it is now. It was called Charley's. I think our lot rent was $4 a month. Our camper was right on the canal and we had a couple of small piers to tie our boat to.

In '58/59 / Bob Parker left the oil business which was in a slump (sound familiar) and he bought the lease from the Pirate Charley. Bob spent a lot of money fixing the camp up and soon his son-in-law Leonard Lance also suffering from the slump and joined him in the venture. So now it was Bob and Leonard's. They did a lot of work, water lines, built some cabins to rent for weekends. It was a busy place with the cut going out into Espirito Santo Bay.

Then Hurricane Carla in Sept 61, it swept everything away, nothing but white sand and a couple of telephone poles. The slip and bulkhead was okay. Dad had taken his camper home before the storm but left his skiff, never found it. The storm came in and tore everything up but when the surge went back out it carried some of the buildings and appliances across the canal to the land between Shoalwater and the Canal. Dad returned and put his camper on the west side of the slip on the canal. That lot and a small mobile home are stiil there on the canal after 55 years. 
Bob and Leonard lost their investment big time. Leonard went back to the oil patch and Bob stayed slowly building the camp back up. He stayed till about the early 70's and Neal and Virginia Fulgham took over. The rent at that time was about $7 a month. It then became Fulgham's. The camp was pretty much run into the ground, rent had skyrocketed to $70 a month with never, ever reinvesting back into the camp.

In 1992 some of the disgruntled folks with cabins there got with Mr Bauer, Fulghams were evicted and it became Shoalwater Flats Co-op.
They had a board and ALL the rent went back into the camp. It has thrived since. 

The cut farther west going from the canal out into shoalwater was originally Cliburne Cut ( the red house by Welder's Flats is owned by Cliburne, a relative of Welder.) It was dredged for some wells drilled in Shoalwater, the poles marked the channel. There is a small island there called Cat Man's island. There are four poles where he had a small cabin. His name was Riley and retired Navy man, a hermit actually. My Dad and I used to visit him. He had cats on the island to keep the rattlesnakes away. He had a small homemade catamaran sailboat and he would sail into Seadrift to get supplies. Because of this we called it Cat Man's Cut. A lot of water went back and forth through this cut and never figured why it closed up.

The cut going into Espirito Santos Bay closer to Port O Conner was the Army cut. The Army Corp of Engineers dredged it for access to the Air Force Base on Matagorda Island. They were also responsible for the Army Hole on the island. The Air Force Base closed in late 60's. It lost electricity and many buildings in Carla. I can remember in the 50's hearing the bombs go off on Matagorda Island and moments later hearing the jets going over very high. The are still large bulls eyes seen from the air as well as bunkers for the airmen to triangulate where the bombs hit. On a side note, from the air, Civil War trenches can be seen near the Light House going from the Gulf across the island to Espirito Santos Bay. If you fish there and have never flown over it, you are missing out on a spectacular sight. Also find a book called "Indianola, The Mother of Texas" by Brownson Malsch. You are fishing around so much History it will blow your mind.

I still fish out of Charley's pay my $5 and go home to Victoria. No painting, repairing, fixing, rent, etc, etc. I spent some of the best times of my life fishing there and my Dad (a cajun) loved that place more than life. I have such great memories. I still go there and just boat ride around the bays, they continuously change. 
I intended to write a small message but got carried away, My mind is spinning in good thoughts and better times.

Dale

PS I forgot to mention that John Welder had gotten Alcoa Landing back in early 70's and had a shrimp camp and a few cabins there. In about 1980 Neil Gray leased some property from Welder and put in the loading ramp and called it Charlie's. Hard to believe he's been there this long.


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## Fishtexx (Jun 29, 2004)

Great post dalealan! I have a deep love for that area, fished it since the early 80's. I would love to hear more history! Thanks for taking the time to share!


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## Capt Tom (Jul 16, 2005)

You have a great memory Dale! Wow and thanks for the ride down memory lane (road) .... í ¾í´— Lots of history there and I can go back and find where some of my family came to the US through Indianola. The Gray's are solid people and I remember Neil and Karen first started. I thank you for the wonderful and accurate breakdown of the history of the area. It's hard to believe I use to drive my boat through Cat Man. The pilings are still there and people laugh when i they'll them a channel use to be there.


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## juan valdez (Jun 21, 2014)

dalealan said:


> My Dad brought us to fish on Lane road in the mid 50's. .... In about 1980 Neil Gray leased some property from Welder and put in the loading ramp and called it Charlie's. Hard to believe he's been there this long.


Great post! Thank you

i'm gonna try to see if i can find that book. sounds interesting


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## SSST (Jun 9, 2011)

Great post Dalealan, cool to hear the story about Cat Man island, I used to see the sign and wondered what the story was, thanks for sharing!


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## Red3Fish (Jun 4, 2004)

That story needs to be put down somewhere in print. I have fished POC for 50 years, and never heard that total story. 

Old John Barnes used to come over to our house for a cold beer when we came in from fishing, and heard a lot of good tales from him.

Great job, well written and thanks for the history. 

Later
R3F


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## [email protected] (May 24, 2004)

daleallen - You beat me down here for sure. I arrived during the last of the Fulghum years. Never met your dad, believe I might have met you once or twice, I know your brother well. I was in the camp he ended up with before acquiring Bear's old Bludworth camp that we sold in 2006 when we built our new house further up the road. The Lane is quite a place for sure and lots of good people down there.

P.S. - Neal Gray told me he named his place Charlie's in recognition of the old original bait camp from many years ago.


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## Aggieangler (May 28, 2004)

I fish that area as much as I can, and I love hearing the old history also. Please feel free to write some more "small" messages, Sir, so we can all benefit from hearing them. 

Most fisherman like yarn spinners!!!


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## SSST (Jun 9, 2011)

Lol, and all this time I thought his name was Charlie Gray.


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## Reynolds4 (Jan 18, 2010)

Very interesting history, would love to hear more as well.

I haven't fished down there since early 2000's but it has always stuck in my mind as one of my favorite places to fish. In the mid 90's we would stay at the house closet to POC right outside of this fish camps on the ICW with some of my parents friends. I believe that every time we were there, the dang buffalo would get into the yard. 

I always threaten to go back down there and fish again but never make it that far.


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## funewgy (Apr 1, 2005)

Green to you Dalealan ! Great historical recap of that area. Thanks


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## Red3Fish (Jun 4, 2004)

I have kinda an off the wall question. You say Alcoa the aluminum company had gas wells in the bay and dredged the cut. Was that a subsidary of theirs, or did they own the lease and/or mineral rights to the bay?

Just curious.

Thanks again
R3F


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## dalealan (Jan 19, 2016)

Red3Fish said:


> I have kinda an off the wall question. You say Alcoa the aluminum company had gas wells in the bay and dredged the cut. Was that a subsidary of theirs, or did they own the lease and/or mineral rights to the bay?
> 
> Just curious.
> 
> ...


R3F
*I believe Alcoa owned these wells and had a subsidary company Neuman Production that operated and serviced the wells. They had a crewboat tied up at Bob and Leonard's slip that they used daily. The compressor on the island south of South Pass was also theirs.
I think all of this was sold to Formosa (Point Comfort) but I think Neuman Production is still in business.

Dale
*


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