# 308 vs 270 for long range



## jimk (May 28, 2004)

This may be my stupidest post...but I own/shoot 270's and my longest shots have been around 400 yards. I've got a couple of spots where I can take shots up to about 900 yards and thinking about using one of my Remington 700's to build a long range rifle...mostly for coyotes.

I know I can get another rifle and customize it...buy why the 308 over the 270?


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## CoastalOutfitters (Aug 20, 2004)

some of the mystique of the 308 centers around the Camp Pendleton matches, out 1000 yards.

the go-to load is a 168 bthp match round 

it is a very long and stable bullet for down range accuracy and not prone to cross wind deflection like a lighter varmit round.

shoot at something at a measured 500 yards , it's farther than you think anything past that is just slinging lead , unless you are on a bench rest and well trained, the target these guys are hitting is not the same as a yote


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## Kyle 1974 (May 10, 2006)

CoastalOutfitters said:


> some of the mystique of the 308 centers around the Camp Pendleton matches, out 1000 yards.
> 
> the go-to load is a 168 bthp match round
> 
> it is a very long and stable bullet for down range accuracy and not prone to cross wind deflection like a lighter varmit round.


I agree with this...

"flatter shooting" doesn't mean near as much as wind deflection at long ranges.


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## Capt Scott Reeh (Jan 21, 2006)

Shooting a 3"-4" dia steel plate out to 500 yrds should not be a problem w/ a accurate 308 rifle w/ good optics.Like Coastal said...500 yrds if further than you think.I had the approtunity to shoot out to 400yds last weekend.....100-300 is a piece of cake.400 w/ some crosswind and you had better know your bullets wind drift.Lucky for me, I have a " dope " cheat sheet on my bullet.Federal Gold Medal Match w/ Sierra 168grn BTHP
At 400, I missed the first shot and my spotter called the miss.......I made a wind drift adj on my turrent and sent the next bullet home..." dink ".....confirmed hit.
My advice is if your gonna get good at 400 plus yrds.......practice,practice..practice.....Oh, And I was NOT useing sandbags either Real world shooting off the top of my rifle case


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## Capt Scott Reeh (Jan 21, 2006)

Here ya go...something to look at :

http://www.biggameinfo.com/index.aspx?page=/balcalc.ascx


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## THE JAMMER (Aug 1, 2005)

Capt Scott Reeh said:


> Here ya go...something to look at :
> 
> http://www.biggameinfo.com/index.aspx?page=/balcalc.ascx


Hey Cap,

I've used several programs, but that one is one of the best. Lots of info in a short period of time.

good job and thanks.....

THE JAMMER


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## BigPig069 (May 20, 2006)

You can pick up alot of Info for Longrange shooting on Longrangehunting.Com, They are very informative and there are many good rifles already built for sale on there.


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## cody p (Aug 25, 2010)

Look into a 25-06 or a 220 swift thay are both flat shooting rounds.


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## swglenn (Sep 20, 2009)

One of the decisions in long range shooting, out to 900-1000 yds, is the choice of bullets. There aren't many/any good long range bullets in 270. Because the 308 has been used in competitions there have been good bullets developed for it. The most popular long range calibers are the 6.5-284 140gr, the 7MM's using 180gr bullets, the 284W, the 7WSM, the 7RSAUM, and some of the 30 calibers using 210gr bullets. They shoot the heavy bullets to get reduced wind drift. For coyote killing the 6.5-284 140 gr bullet will give you all you need. My buddy killed a 125# hog at 915 yds last year using his 6.5-284 with 140 gr Berger VLD's. To kill deer sized animals at 1000 yds to a mile he built a 338 Lapua Mag shooting a 250gr bullet.


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## [email protected] (Jun 25, 2005)

Why wouldn't a .300 WSM be a good option? Seems to have 300 fps more velocity than a .308 shooting the same weight bullet. My fiance's father shot an elk at 605 yards in Colorado back in September. The elk dropped in it's tracks. Sounds like a good long range caliber to me.


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## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

When we used to shoot the rams at 500 yards we used 700 BDLs with bull barrels and it was fun. The .308 had a trajectory like a rainbow and we'd lob the bullets into the targets.

The link below might help you, full of information and should help you to understand things better.

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=2936883

TH


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## djduke47823 (Jun 7, 2005)

If it was me? I would set up in the middle and shoot 450 both ways????? With my .270.....Thats what I do with my .270wsm......my.02......


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## CoastalOutfitters (Aug 20, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> Why wouldn't a .300 WSM be a good option? Seems to have 300 fps more velocity than a .308 shooting the same weight bullet. My fiance's father *shot an elk at 605 yards* in Colorado back in September. The elk dropped in it's tracks. Sounds like a good long range caliber to me.


1st shot ? 50% luck


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## jimk (May 28, 2004)

djduke47823 said:


> If it was me? I would set up in the middle and shoot 450 both ways????? With my .270.....Thats what I do with my .270wsm......my.02......


This isn't shooting from a blind...it's driving through the pasture.


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## [email protected] (Jun 25, 2005)

CoastalOutfitters said:


> 1st shot ? 50% luck


1st shot! He's an avid big game hunter and a great long range shooter. It would be luck for me but he expects those kind of shots for himself. I still think that the .300 wsm is a far better caliber than a .270 or .308 for long range shots.


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## Hotwater (May 4, 2010)

BIGGER IS BETTER(TO A POINT) WHEN YOU ARE LOOKING AT LONG RANGE ACCURACY. BEING FLAT SHOOTING DOES NOT ALWAYS EQUAL ACCURATE. THEY ALL DROP YOU JUST HAVE TO KNOW HOW MUCH. AS STATED BEFORE BIGGER BULLETS ARE AFFECTED LESS BY WIND, ETC. AT RANGE.


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## Capt. Marcus Canales (Aug 25, 2005)

Jimk

i picked up my new critter killer saturday from Cabelas....once i get the scope and everything on there, you can shoot mine when i head out to Falls City again. :cheers:


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## CoastalOutfitters (Aug 20, 2004)

you will see a few 300 win. mag and 7 mags at the long rang shoots, SWAT guys use a few as well, but the go-to is a 308 , because of it's early military history in the pendleton and perry matches. M-14's and such. fairly low recoil and cheap to shoot


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## jimk (May 28, 2004)

I really appreciate the information you have provided and I'm looking at it all.

I think, however, that I'm going to wring out a .277 to see what it can do and learn from my mistakes.


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

The .270 will work for coyotes. The variable is the scope and range finder (doesn't do a bit of good to have the rifle setup if you don't know how far to the target). IMO, get a good scope, some 150 grain bullets with good BC and plug it all into a program and it will tell you exactly the adjustment needed for the distance of the shot. It really doesn't matter the caliber, though some are better than others for various circumstances/game/conditions. I hit a 15" target, first shot, Saturday with my 7mm win mag, 452 yds, 3x9 scope, 150 grain hand loads. Just know the distance and the amount of hold over or scope adjustment and the rifle will perform.


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## magnumb (Apr 27, 2010)

Maybe it's just me, but after looking at the linked "Big Game" calculator offered on pg. 1, I'm not sure that the .308 cartridge can even get close to 3,000fps with a 180gr. pill.........? My '06 is loaded pretty stout with 180gr. NP's and it's movin' along at 2,850 fps. (24in. barrel).

I'm thinkin' even if that 3,000fps is out of a 124 in. barrel, it would still come up short (there is a point of diminishing returns with most things...barrel length is no exception and a 180 with a BC of a million wouldn't make up that much difference).

Now if we're talking .308 caliber, the 300 Win., 300WSM and 300RUM can do that with one petal tied behind it's jacket.

I own several different rifle shooting different cartridges, but when reading your post and intentions, the first cartridge that comes to my mind stored in my hidey-hole would be my 270WSM pushin' 130gr. pills.......just my opinion.

Good luck...............


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## spurgersalty (Jun 29, 2010)

I was thinking of getting in to the long range thang also, but my initial choice was the 270 Weatherby Mag. Slightly out-performs the WSM but most of the weatherbys come with 26 in. barrels. From what I understand the 26 in. barrels are to give the powder more time to burn or completely burn thus increasing the efficiency of the charge by wringing every little bit of pressure out of the powder combustion. So what say Yall to the 270 weathetrby m. It's out of that or the wsm for me.


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## magnumb (Apr 27, 2010)

The 270 Bee is never a bad choice. One might consider the long vs short action (overall weight) or non-belted/belted considerations (whether or not one cares about such things), but as far as ballistics goes, they're darn near identical. Enough so, that I wouldn't toss one for the other unless I just wanted to add another rifle to the pile.

Never a bad thing either...............


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## spurgersalty (Jun 29, 2010)

Yeah magnum, but after looking for 2 months and bidding trying to get the right price I'm thinking I could buy 2 wsm's for the price of one wbmag. My brother found a 30-378 wb mag mark V deluxe new for 1100. How come I can't find a 270 new for that? Just about ready to go to.the 30-378 but can't quite stomach 90+ grains of powder per :doowapstacartridge. Oh well patience is perpetual....lol


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## Marshman (Jul 24, 2008)

Not many of ya'll are actually shooting long range.....

Don't worry so much about caliber. Effective long range fire is much more about WIND, and calling the effects thereof. The best thing for that is practice. THAT is the reason so many shooters shoot the 308/7.62 - it's cheap and good ammo for it is available.

300 WM, 300 WSM, 7mmMag, 7WSM are all great LD rounds, but cost a bunch more to shoot. They ARE more effective in the wind, but you pay 2 to 3 times more per round to shoot them.

If 600 yards is the max your are going to shoot a coyote at, then get a 223, load it with 77 or 80 grains pills and fire away. The rifle has enough at that range to get it done for that size critter.

The 308 is also effective out to 800 on whitetail size animals. NOT ethical, nor recommended, but it can do it.

FYI.... anyone know the first round hit probability of a trained USMC shooter at average range of 400 yards? I do..... and it is not as high as most of you will guess. And that is after weeks of training and thousands of rounds. I doubt there are more than a handful of shooters here that have 1000 rounds thru all their rifles much less one. No offense intended, but I have heard a lot of opinions, not backed up by much experience.

Get a 308 - buy lots of ammo, and shoot it until you need a new barrel. About 10-20,000 rounds.... YMMV. And don't take long shots at game unless you are sure of the results.


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## spurgersalty (Jun 29, 2010)

Marshman said:


> Not many of ya'll are actually shooting long range.....
> 
> Don't worry so much about caliber. Effective long range fire is much more about WIND, and calling the effects thereof. The best thing for that is practice. THAT is the reason so many shooters shoot the 308/7.62 - it's cheap and good ammo for it is available.
> 
> ...


You'd be surprised what some.of us can do and Do do. I finally decided last year to take an animal(white tail) at a little over 400 yrds with a 243. The only uprising thing about the whole 3vent was after the shot the deer DROPPED in its tracks. It didn't run like the countless others had ad closer than 100 yrds. So when I decide on a cartridge I will do the same as always and shoot the fire out of it at my brothers 0-900yrd range and when ready will decide to take an animal. Only after much practice. This is my main gripe about the 30-378. That 90+ grains of powder adds up after the amount of shootin necessary.to attempt these shots. But that is why I finally dove in to "rollin' my own".


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## magnumb (Apr 27, 2010)

surgersalty - tell me about it........97 grs. in my 300RUM!! But boy is it accurate and the terminal effects are incredible. But you pay in 2 ways......$ and recoil (not horrible recoil, but let's you know one's headed downrange.

Patience...........I'm gettin' better at it, but I'm still far from good at it. 270 Bee's aren't unpopular and many hold on to them, pass them down, etc. I would have thought that the "recession" might have made the availability of such offerings more abundant, but evidently not. In truth, I hate to see people that truly "need" to sell their cherished stuff, firearms being no exception. But it is what it is............

Lots of different cartridges out there. It only takes one "for sale post" and one "I'll take it" post on any given day. 

Tomorrow could be your day.................


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## spurgersalty (Jun 29, 2010)

I'll keep the faith magnum, but it seems they want to keep.their rifles......lol
I found 5 on gunsamerica, 4 on gun broker, and none on auction arms. Only 2 of these had the 26 in. barrel I'm looking for and they were mark Vs. Seems all the Lazermarks are 24s. Could the lazermarks have a different twist rate possibly than the longer barreled mark Vs?


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## spurgersalty (Jun 29, 2010)

Oh, and a muzzle break and aftermarket recoil pad will be the first mods I make as I'm only 159 lbs at 6'1". This little skinny guy don't want much punch.


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## jimk (May 28, 2004)

I do appreciate the insight, the websites, and the information posted. I'm going to practice with my .270 at various ranges...if it's windy, I'll pass on the shot. I missed a coyote a couple of weeks ago..about 6" high and 6" behind him...course he was 300 yards away and running full speed and I was shooting my 6" barrelled 686 with open sights. If he had stopped, I would have been much closer with the second shot.


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## spurgersalty (Jun 29, 2010)

You know what the kicker is jimm? I taught a buddy of mine to shoot whole.later became a sniper. But he's still trying to teach ME to shoot a pistol. I can be deadly.out to 20 yrds. But when you put a heartbeat there, GET DIRT baby!!! Safety training for.deer


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## jimk (May 28, 2004)

spurgersalty said:


> You know what the kicker is jimm? I taught a buddy of mine to shoot whole.later became a sniper. But he's still trying to teach ME to shoot a pistol. I can be deadly.out to 20 yrds. But when you put a heartbeat there, GET DIRT baby!!! Safety training for.deer


I taught my youngest daughter to shoot with a single six .22...then a MKII Ruger...the first time she shot a rifle, her comment was, "Daddy, this is so easy!"


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## [email protected] (Jun 25, 2005)

How come the military snipers use .308's and not a newer .300 platform with much better ballistics. Still shoot a 30 cal bullet but at increased velocity and punch with less drop at long ranges.


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## spurgersalty (Jun 29, 2010)

Could be recoil, cost of ammo, or unavailability of those cartridges in their rifle of choice. My buddy is now a police sniper and he bought a 308 cause it was the "accepted norm". So maybe creatures of habit?


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## Ernest (May 21, 2004)

Agree with Marshman. 

The shooter is far more important than the caliber, assuming its a caliber with high BC bullets. Its all about trigger time, practice, evaluating distance, and reading wind and mirage. So, I would suggest one should focus on good optics and a platform that will permit you to fire 1000's of rounds. If its a heavy recoiling weapon or very expensive to feed, its tougher to get in all the practice needed. 

When it comes to high BC bullets and a moderate recoiling weapon, 6.5 is almost ideal. In fact, if I was building a gun today to shoot 600 to 800 yards, it would be a .260 Rem.


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## spurgersalty (Jun 29, 2010)

Ernest said:


> Agree with Marshman.
> 
> The shooter is far more important than the caliber, assuming its a caliber with high BC bullets. Its all about trigger time, practice, evaluating distance, and reading wind and mirage. So, I would suggest one should focus on good optics and a platform that will permit you to fire 1000's of rounds. If its a heavy recoiling weapon or very expensive to feed, its tougher to get in all the practice needed.
> 
> When it comes to high BC bullets and a moderate recoiling weapon, 6.5 is almost ideal. In fact, if I was building a gun today to shoot 600 to 800 yards, it would be a .260 Rem.


Well my current project is a Remington 673 in 6.5 REM. mag. Theirs two things holding me back though. 1 barrel is only 22 in. I would rather a 24 at least. 2 I'm limited on my coal adjustments (seating depth) by the magazine length. Yall think a gunsmith could alter or possibly build me a new mag box. I know I can order the 24 inch barrel but the mag is a dilemma.


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## Ernest (May 21, 2004)

Single load the rounds, and the mag. don't matter. 

Shot bullets that like a jump. 

When you rebarrel, get a shorter throat/lead so if you want to jam them, you can still work with the existing mag. limitation. 

But the reality is this, its a short action, designed to shoot blunt nosed hunting style bullets, as opposed to high BC bullets. If placed in an intermediate length action, its great and one can get all the performance the round is capable of delivering. In a short action, its rebarrel or single load or big jump. Rebarrel and cut it with a shorter throat, and you still face a powder capacity issue because those long pointy high BC bullets are relative deep in the case.


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## CoastalOutfitters (Aug 20, 2004)

spurgersalty said:


> Could be recoil, cost of ammo, or unavailability of those cartridges in their rifle of choice. My buddy is now a police sniper and he bought a 308 cause it was the "accepted norm". So maybe creatures of habit?


308 for SWAT prob has a lot more to do with liability and a proven track record also they really don't shoot that far 200yds would be a long shot.

as for the military, that round has been around for ever and is avail in other countries , wildcats, likely not. you shoot what works and don't re-invent the wheel with a one of a kind rifle/cal.

also burning a bunch of bench time w a 300 Win mag is pretty hard on your body., try it.


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## Marshman (Jul 24, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> How come the military snipers use .308's and not a newer .300 platform with much better ballistics. Still shoot a 30 cal bullet but at increased velocity and punch with less drop at long ranges.


I am of the opinion that most police snipers ( I hate that word most of the time!!!) use the 308 because it is what is accepted. In most any of their shoots, they will be subjected to intense scrutiny. By using the norm, they evade that area of questioning. The average engagement distance is less than 100 yards for them. And, the 308 has lots of good inexpensive match ammo. If you look, you can buy Federal Gold Medal Match in 168 or 175 for around 20 bucks a box. Not gonna do that with any magnum for sure. I have had pretty good luck with the Black Hills 30WM stuff, I'd load more of my own, but time for me is a factor. So the big brown truck brings lots of red boxes!

FYI, the army and USMC are converting over to 300WM in their bolt sniper rifles. Squad and platoon DM are still 308 platform, and should be mostly 308 semi auto aka AR10/SR25 rifles.

And for 1000 yards, shooting competitively these days, a 260 or 243/6mm is where it's at. Both are barrel burners, but that is the price of heavy fast bullets in an overbore caliber. Both are basically necked down 308 brass, which might normally get 10-20 THOUSAND rounds before washout. About 10% of that is the expected mileage of 6 or 6.5. I have a 300 WM that went south around 1000, a buddy had one that was MOA until 2700, then in about 50 rounds became a 3 MOA rifle.

Let us know what you get, and by all means post a picture!


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## jimk (May 28, 2004)

I think the .308 does the job and has a history of success. Likewise, for me, I'm gonna "dance with the one(s) that brung me," and work on my .270 for my little piece of the world of shooting.


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## Capt Scott Reeh (Jan 21, 2006)

Marshman said:


> . If you look, you can buy Federal Gold Medal Match in 168 or 175 for around 20 bucks a box.
> 
> Where can I get that ammo for around $20 a box ? It's more like 30-40 abox.Can you PLEASE provide a link ?


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## Marshman (Jul 24, 2008)

Capt Scott Reeh said:


> Marshman said:
> 
> 
> > . If you look, you can buy Federal Gold Medal Match in 168 or 175 for around 20 bucks a box.
> ...


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## Capt Scott Reeh (Jan 21, 2006)

Thanks Marshman.....greenie sent


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## wwind3 (Sep 30, 2009)

300 all the way and start reloading. At 800 yds not many factory loads will be consistent enough. Good luck..


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