# First build guide spacing



## johnsons1480 (Jun 24, 2016)

Can you guys tell me if this guide train makes any sense to you?

I put an RV6 20" from the reel face. I put a 5KB 8-1/16" from there. I got that spacing from taking the reel off, looking through the RV6, and centering the 5KB in the middle like a target. I tried doing the same with the first size 4 guide, but it ended up being about 2.5" away.

I have a size 4.5 tip top. From there, I put the first 4KT guide 4" away. I did what I believe to be a static load test starting at 5" spacing, but the line dipped below the rod when I did that. I started again at 4" spacing and I was happy with that.

So, with the first guide in place past the tip top and the last two guides in place, I have one Fuji RV6, one Fuji size 5, 9 Fuji size 4, and the tip top. If I space them out evenly, the spacing shrinks from 4" to 3.73" between each guide. I don't know if this helps to illustrate it, but it looks like this.

TT,4 ,4 ,4 ,4 ,4 ,4 ,4 ,4 ,4 ,5 RV6
4",3.73",3.73",3.73",3.73",3.73",3.73",3.73",3.73",3.73",8-1/16",20" from reel

Is that spacing ok, or should I remove a single guide, keep the 4" spacing in the beginning, and move each guide back a little more than 4" to make the spacing more gradual? Something like this.

TT,4 ,4 ,4 ,4 ,4 ,4 ,4 ,4 ,5, RV6
4",4",4",4",4.1",4.2",4.3",4.4",4.5",8-1/16",20" from reel


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## Salty Dog (Jan 29, 2005)

Usually helps to know what type rod you are building and the length.

I always put them on there with thin masking tape if I am unsure then put my reel on, run the line through them and flex the rod with the line to see how it looks. My goal is to always use the fewest possible guides without having line contact the blank when flexed. I play with my spacing and number of guides to achieve that. While you can find some 'suggested spacing' charts nothing is ever as good as putting the guides on there and testing it. And that is one thing a whole lot of folks don't do. Once I have built a particular blank I then have a reference for the next time I build on the same blank. 

I use to use rolls of adding machine paper for that. Once I got it just right I'd pull out a strip of the paper as long as the rod and I'd mark the guide spacing and write the guide size. Then I'd roll it up, put a rubber band around it and write the blank brand and model on the outside of the roll. Next time I built on the same model blank I could pull it out for a quick and easy reference to space the guides.


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## johnsons1480 (Jun 24, 2016)

This may better illustrate what I'm looking at


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## johnsons1480 (Jun 24, 2016)

Salty Dog said:


> Usually helps to know what type rod you are building and the length.
> 
> I always put them on there with thin masking tape if I am unsure then put my reel on, run the line through them and flex the rod with the line to see how it looks. My goal is to always use the fewest possible guides without having line contact the blank when flexed. I play with my spacing and number of guides to achieve that. While you can find some 'suggested spacing' charts nothing is ever as good as putting the guides on there and testing it. And that is one thing a whole lot of folks don't do. Once I have built a particular blank I then have a reference for the next time I build on the same blank.
> 
> I use to use rolls of adding machine paper for that. Once I got it just right I'd pull out a strip of the paper as long as the rod and I'd mark the guide spacing and write the guide size. Then I'd roll it up, put a rubber band around it and write the blank brand and model on the outside of the roll. Next time I built on the same model blank I could pull it out for a quick and easy reference to space the guides.


Sorry, it's a Rainshadow REVIP70M (IP843) cut down to 6'6". It's a medium mod. fast rod.

I read that my first guide from the tip top should be at 4" and shouldn't be moved unless there is a problem, so I put it there and left it.

I put the rod in a holder to hold it at 45 degrees and spaced my guides at 5" along the top. I used coins in a bag to bend the rod down to even with the table top (90 degree bend). The coin bag was tied to the tip top, and the line came from the reel and had a light weight on it. I found there were several areas that had the line dip below the blank. I read somewhere that it was ok if it touched the blank, but it should not dip below. If I'm wrong on that, please correct me. Went back and added some guides and spaced them at 4" apart. The line no longer touched the blank or dipped below.

I read that my stripper (RV6) should be 18" to 22" from the face of the reel, and it seemed like most places I read from recommended 20". I found very, very little info on how to place the second guide after the stripper, so I had to go with what I found about the KR concept in relation to spinning reels, which is why I backed off my 5KB guide until it was centered in the middle of the RV6 while viewed from the reel seat with the reel removed. Like I said, I couldn't do the same with the first 4KT guide because it would have been about 2.5" from the RV6 and I had read that guides shouldn't be closer than 3" from each other.

Sorry for the wall of text, just wanted to explain what I've done in hopes that someone can identify where I'm falling short. I also appreciate the tips, I'll have to pick up some adding machine paper.


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## Salty Dog (Jan 29, 2005)

You are on the right track then. Best advice I can give you is don't pay too much mind to hard fast rules of where guides ought to go. Let the blank tell you where they need to be. 

I try to use the fewest guides possible without having the line contact the blank. It may be ok for it to make contact but my goal is no contact and use as few guides as I can accomplish that with.


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## johnsons1480 (Jun 24, 2016)

Salty Dog said:


> You are on the right track then. Best advice I can give you is don't pay too much mind to hard fast rules of where guides ought to go. Let the blank tell you where they need to be.
> 
> I try to use the fewest guides possible without having the line contact the blank. It may be ok for it to make contact but my goal is no contact and use as few guides as I can accomplish that with.


I appreciate it. I'm going to test again before I wrap, but I think with the size 4 guides I'll need 9 of them for no contact.

Am I on the right track with the way I spaced the size 5 guide after the stripper? I'm so confused on that part, there is next to no information on the KR concept spacing for baitcasters.


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## Fishsurfer (Dec 14, 2014)

If you are doing a conventional wrap and not a spiral you can pretty much put the choke point anywhere you want. The choke point is going to be the change of direction or the greatest amount of deflection of the line coming from the reel as it goes toward the tip. You could make the tip the choke point on a conventional rod wrap or call it half the distance from the reel to the tip or anywhere else for that matter on the blank. You may need to change the height of the stripper (Lower) by using a different stripper type but with the same ring size. Don't worry about the designation of the guide type (Spinning vs casting) just get one in the correct height and ring. On a short rod like that I would not be opposed to using all single foot guides. I have built on 7'6" G Loomis IMX blanks for casting rods using all single foot spinning guides to get a good line transition from the reel. The rods work great. If you want I live close to you near Katy and we could work it out just PM me with contact information. The tip running guide can be closer than 4" to the tip. I usually put mine at 3" on a longer rod. The method you are using eying down the blank can also be done on a flat level surface like a counter or a table top. Just tape the stripper down first then the third guide from the stripper in an acceptable spacing for the rod then put the 2nd guide in line between the stripper and the 3rd guide. Adjust the 3rd and 2nd guides to get an acceptable spacing. You may figure out you need different guide heights here if you can't get it.:work:


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## teamfirstcast (Aug 23, 2006)

To the OP, guide spacing "rules" are changing all the time with newer style guides vs the older conventional style guides. Many widely varied schools of thought on this.... so much that the real answer is that there are very few "rules", just build a rod that works for you, looks pleasing to the eyes, and carries the line efficiently to the tip top. Specifically, I don't care for either of the examples pictured above, my .02 only. Like was mentioned above I have developed many guide spacing examples for diff blanks, and even then I always have to adjust based on rod length, handle length, guide style, height, fish marks (oh yes they can and WILL get in the way and you must work around them), acid wrap or conventional. PM me if you want, there's too much to discuss by typing and lets talk - I may be able to simplify the process.


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## cfulbright (Jun 24, 2009)

Here is my .02 on the guides chosen and spacing. 
Now these are just my opinions take what you will...I pretty much only do micro guides.
1. You have two many guides for a 6'6 rod-I run 8 on that size rod, not spiral wrap and micro guides the line will almost always touch the blank. Most say thats ok. I dont like it.
2. You might consider spiral wrapping. Thats what I would do... You could do 8 guides, or even 7 depending on what the rod tells you.
3. Or going to a size 5mm or 5.5mm running guide. This will get the line a little higher, and not touch the blank as easy.
4. Spacing, I normaly start at 4" like you, then add some space. Like from tip-4", 4 1/4", 4 1/2, 5", ect... up to 6-7 1/2" between the stripper, and 2nd guide...Depending on the blank of coarse.


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## CroakerJO (Mar 16, 2011)

Position the stripper at 19 or 20 inches. After that, there is usually no need to pick up a ruler again regardless of guide size.

http://anglersresource.net/StaticLoadTutorial.aspx


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## johnsons1480 (Jun 24, 2016)

I appreciate all of the advice. I think I misunderstood how to do a static load test. I was loading it light then working through from no bend to 90 degrees. It looks like I should have just worried about 90 degrees if I'm reading that tutorial correctly. At any rate, I'm now considering a spiral wrap. I found a resource on acidrod.com and I'm wondering which type of spiral wrap I should use: Forhan "Revolver", Slow Spiral, or Simple Spiral? http://www.acidrod.com/files/degreewheel_wInstructions.pdf


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## johnsons1480 (Jun 24, 2016)

CroakerJO said:


> Position the stripper at 19 or 20 inches. After that, there is usually no need to pick up a ruler again regardless of guide size.
> 
> http://anglersresource.net/StaticLoadTutorial.aspx


I redid my static load test using this advice, and my guide spacing is even stranger now. I moved every guide back from the last one until it was just about to touch the blank, then moved to the next one. I ended up with two less guides, and my spacing is as follows from the tip top.

5-1/2", 4-1/2", 4-1/4", 4", 3-7/8", 4-1/8", 3-11/16", 4-1/8", 5"


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## Fishsurfer (Dec 14, 2014)

Here is what I came up with on the stripper set up. This makes a good straight line from the reel (target). The stripper guide is a RV 6mm followed by a KB 5mm then a KB 4mm the rest of the running guides are 4mm to the tip top. The spacing of the first running guide from the tip top is 3.625" and the distance from the tip top to the stripper is 46" using 9 guides + tip top. Not sure what software you are using but it does not look like it works for the runner spacing. This is based on the back of your reel at 9" from the butt of the blank and the reel face 20" from the stripper (12" from the butt +20"). If you go with a lower stripper guide you can decrease the distance to the next guide and increase the distance from the reel face. But I can live with this it makes a nice straight line.


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## johnsons1480 (Jun 24, 2016)

The spacing I had written up earlier was incorrect, I had forgotten to measure the distance to the stripper. I went home and put the rod under load again to do some testing. The line touched the blank from the reel to the stripper, so I moved it closer to the reel until it didn't and taped it on. That put me near 18" from the reel face. From there I put on a total of 8 guides and used this guide spacing tool AcidRod Layout. I couldn't get 8 guides to work without touching the blank, so I tried 9. With the first guide at 4" and the stripper at 48", I used a 6.360% spacing factor. I used the spacing from the spreadsheet, taped on the guides, and I'm pretty happy with the no blank contact. Here's the spacing.

4,4-5/16, 4-9/16, 4-15/16, 5-1/4, 5-5/8, 6, 6-7/16, 6-15/16

And the total spacing

4, 8-5/16, 12-7/8, 17-3/4, 23-1/16, 28-5/8, 34-5/8, 41-1/16, 48


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## teamfirstcast (Aug 23, 2006)

*Now we're talking!*



johnsons1480 said:


> The spacing I had written up earlier was incorrect, I had forgotten to measure the distance to the stripper. I went home and put the rod under load again to do some testing. The line touched the blank from the reel to the stripper, so I moved it closer to the reel until it didn't and taped it on. That put me near 18" from the reel face. From there I put on a total of 8 guides and used this guide spacing tool AcidRod Layout. I couldn't get 8 guides to work without touching the blank, so I tried 9. With the first guide at 4" and the stripper at 48", I used a 6.360% spacing factor. I used the spacing from the spreadsheet, taped on the guides, and I'm pretty happy with the no blank contact. Here's the spacing.
> 
> 4,4-5/16, 4-9/16, 4-15/16, 5-1/4, 5-5/8, 6, 6-7/16, 6-15/16
> 
> ...


The above looks much better to me than what you had before. I like your % spacing but I feel it should increase by "factor" as you get closer to the stripper guide... my .02 of course. But I think you will have a fine performing rod with those Torzites. Post up pics of the progress.


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