# Surf fishing and Kayaks



## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

I posted this on another site friday. Thought I would share it here also. This time of the year everyone seems to start getting ready for the up coming fishing year,and I am no exception. Getting lot of questions about kayaks and surf fishing. Tried to put lot of info down in writing that could answer some of the questions people have. Just want you to know this is not a 'best kayak" thread.

As some of you may know I am very involved in the Texas kayak world. Most of my fishing time is either in a kayak or from the beach. I have spent countless hours fishing from hundereds of different types of kayaks. Me and Oscar put on the first public offshore fishing event in Texas. And I hold or help with most all public kayak events that take place offshore each year in Texas. I am in the process of putting many events together for this year involving kayaks. I am also sponsored by Cobra Kayaks. But I am not a salesman, I will not try to sell you a kayak.

With so many people starting to surf fish and asking questions about kayaks, I am going to try to help. But I want everyone to understand that any kayak will work for any type of fishing. Just some kayaks perform better then others at certin jobs. No such thing as one perfect kayak, and size does matter. A kayak that is perfect for one person may perform poor for someone else. Each person has different fishing styles, so that is why we have so many different kayaks to choose from.



sHArK said:


> What is primary and secondary stability? Oh and My yak does the nose down attempt when comming in hard on some rockin waves... Its 12-1/2' long and I figured that to be the reason..as the only thing that doesnt nose down that Ihave tried are those little sawd off yaks you guys llike so much that DO have better stability, Dont break the waves as fast and tend to be somewhat slower than mine... Note I would trade wave breaking for more stabilty but never speed. I got a first hand glimps of the added stability one time yaking off of BHP and got sideways on a couple 5's while turning around... I would have been crushed in my yak..lol


"Primary stability refers to how you feel while your just sitting in your kayak at rest. Kayaks with a V-Shaped or flat bottom hulls will have more primary stability than one with a round hull. "
"Secondary Stability is very important also. This refers to how far the kayak can be leaned over before you think your going to capsize. Round hulls have the best secondary stability followed by the V-Shaped and flat bottomed respectively. If you anticipate very rough water conditions, you should look into kayaks with round hulls. Because they use soft chines they have the ability to be leaned quite a ways before they capsize."

this is a quote from allkayakfishing. PerryC has done a much better job of explaining the basics of kayaks then I could. PerryC is a great guy and a support member of the Cobra kayak Fishing team. So if you are new to kayaks, take some time and read the articles on the right hand side of the page. 
http://www.allkayakfishing.com/yak101/index.html

"Oh and My yak does the nose down attempt when comming in hard on some rockin waves... Its 12-1/2' long and I figured that to be the reason..as the only thing that doesnt nose down that Ihave tried are those little sawd off yaks you guys llike so much that DO have better stability, Dont break the waves as fast and tend to be somewhat slower than mine..."

Some kayaks tend to nose down more then others. Two factors make this happen. First is lenght of the kayak. The shorter the kayak the less chance of it noseing down when on a wave. Second is how much rocker the kayak has. Rocker is the up-ward turn of the hull. Some kayaks like a Frenzy or Scrambler XT have a very large rocker. They are made to ride waves. Other kayaks like Tarpons, Hertiage redfish and other flat water kayaks have little to no rocker. 
The more rocker a kayak has the better it will handle surf. But a large rocker hurts speed, tracking and glide. It is a trade off, and many kayak makers have limited rocker, or half hull rocker. This is a way of combining enough rocker for the surf, but still have enough keel in the water for good tracking and glide.

A good over all lenght for the surf is 10'- 13'. Once you get longer it becomes hard to correct direction and once over 14' in lenght kayaks tend to nose into and down waves. Shorter kayaks work good, but will be slower .In the surf you need to correct direction fast and often. A kayak with good tracking is hard to correct direction with every paddle stroke. In other words if a wave turns you in a kayak with good tracking like a Tarpon 140. You will have a hard time correcting the direction. And if the wave has enough force it will take control of the kayak, forcing you down the face of the wave. With a shorter kayak that has a good rocker to it. It does not track straight, you have to correct the direction with almost every paddle stroke. Then when a wave turns you, it is simple to just turn the kayak back straight.

How fast the kayak can drain is also very important in kayaks that are going to be used in the surf. The faster the kayak can drain water out of the cockpit, the better. Bay kayaks are made to have dry cockpits. So they tend to have few or only one scuppler hole. This can make them drain slow, leaving you a sitting duck for the next wave. If your kayak is full of water you loose all control when the wave hits you. Kayaks that have many scuppler holes will drain faster, but once again this makes for drag when paddling. So it also slows the kayak down compared to bay kayaks.

Now how big of a boy you are also is important when looking at kayaks. Us fat guys will have a more diffucult time with kayaks then skinny guys. And most skinny guys do not seem to understand that kayaks perform different with more added weight. This is even more true in the surf. The extra weight will effect the stability of a kayak. A kayak that feels very stable to a person of 180lbs may fell very tippy and not drain fast enough for someone 230lbs.. And a skinny guy can get into a large kayak and it will feel tippy to him. Mostly because he does not have enough weight to sink the kayak to the perfered water level. Once again this makes the statement true that no such thing as one perfect kayak.

Th size of the kayak also makes a difference when running baits through the surf. The wider the kayak the more waves can push it around and the slower it will be. The Cobra Fish N Dive works good in the surf. But on choppy days when the waves are only a second apart and 3' high. It can be a pain to get baits out with it. The waves will kee pushing it back toward the beach, before you can get enough foward movement. Kayaks like the Apex II and most Ocean Kayaks tend to catch alot of wind. This can push them side shore at times way down the beach. Ocean kayaks tend to have very high sides and they all seem to catch alot of wind. Most all "wide" kayaks will have this effect. But they make up for it by being very stable.

For the main purpose of just running baits in the surf. You do not need to spend alot of money on a kayak. The Ocean Kayak Frenzy, Scrambler XT, SPEC, Malibu II, Mainstream Kingfish all will get the job done. And all of them perform good in the surf. Should be able to get into any of these kayaks for around $400 new. And like said above, you can fish from these kayaks. But they will not have some of the comforts of kayaks that are made to fish from.

Once you want to start fishing from the kayak this is when the choices get a little harder. For kayaks that are easy to fish from and can still run baits in large surf look at Cobra Navigator, Cobra Fish N Dive, Malibu X-Factor, Malibu Pro Explorer, Ocean Kayak Drifter, Ocean Kayak Prowler 13. Hertiage redfish, is good but does not have much rocker. Ocean Kayak Prowler 15 is also a great fishing kayak, but does tend to nose down bad. Ocean Kayak Malibu II will work to fish from. I do not perfer it because it has little to no below deck storeage and the seat stays wet in it all the time. It is slow for me , but others seem to make it work good. I have not got a chance to try the Malibu XL yet.

The three major companys that make kayaks that work good in the surf are Ocean Kayak, Cobra Kayak, and Malibu Kayak. All three are Californa based companys where they fish offshore most of the time. So they are made for use in open ocean and the surf. Most of the other kayak makers were Canoe makers first, then started making kayaks. They tend to be flat water kayaks, or bay kayaks.

Malibu and Cobra are top of the line roto mold kayak makers. Ocean Kayaks are also great quality, and have great prices. But the hatches and overall design needs some work. Ocean kayak is making a big push in the Texas market this year, and I am looking foward to see what they come out with. Mainstream kayaks also tend to be good for the money. But they seem to be thinner then most of the better known brands. Pelican is a generic brand that is sold in super stores. They are cheap made and it shows. The Apex and the new one they have this year are O.K. for the money. But leave alot lacking in over all design.

Kayak fishing in Texas is booming. It is the fastest growing sport in Texas right now. The shear number of kayaks being sold is unreal. I use to know every person on the beach at High Island that had a kayak. Now on any given weekend I may see hundreds of kayaks on the beach. The growth in kayak fishing over the past few years is hard to believe.

This weekend weather looks horrible. I was going to pre fish for a kayak tournament next weekend. But the weather men are calling for highs of 42 saturday and highs of 38 for sunday. Way to cold for me. Seems I will spend alot of time around the house this weekend. Hope this helped someone, and if you have any questions feel free to ask.


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## BillyG (Oct 19, 2004)

thanks for the help


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## texasarrowhead (Jun 13, 2004)

Great post!I wish I had found this when I got started.


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## EchoDuck Jr. (Jul 16, 2004)

thanks for the help. i am 15 and was looking for a kayak i could use in mild surf and for the bay. I was looking at the Cobras is that a good choice??
thanks


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## Freshwaterman (May 21, 2004)

Thanks Jolly Roger,,,,info I really needed...
Jdub


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## Oso Yakman (Jan 2, 2005)

Awesome Post J.r. Thanks


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## flatsfats (May 21, 2004)

ecxellent post. 

file...save as...


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## northpaw (May 30, 2005)

Very well put. I don't think I have heard you say that much in an entire day of fishing! 

Oh, and ya shoulda prefished, we did some good on Sat.


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## wacowade (May 27, 2004)

Great post.. 
I was just looking at some Kayaks today at Academy and thought that I dont know a **** thing about what i am looking at. So I signed on and found this wonderful post.. Thanks J.R
I have a question.. I only get down to the coast 5 or 6 times a years. I love to surf fish and definitly want a Kayak to run baits with, but also wouldn't mind something that I can do some fishing out of if the conditions are not too terrible. 
Speed isnt a big issue for me.. I think stability might be more of an issue for a novice Kayak user. Catch to the whole thing is.. I am a big guy.. 6' tall and about 300 pounds.. Any sugestions to what I might look into other than a diet..


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## northpaw (May 30, 2005)

Waco,
I paddle a Drifter, and I promise you it is plenty of boat for you. I have fished with a guy from up in my area whos dad paddles one as well. He is a BIG man (350 plus) and that is his choice as well. Cobra Fish & Dive is also very stable. You are more than welcome to meet me next time I am down and test mine out. I was much like you in that I chose stability as my top priority. What I found is the speed isn't nearly as far behind the others suitable boats as I once feared. For me it is a good fit. Paddle as many as you can.


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## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

I agree with northpaw. Look at Ocean Kayak Drifter, Cobra Fish N Dive, or Malibu X-Factor. All three kayaks will handle big boys easy. And they are great fishing kayaks. Try to paddle all three and find the one that fits you the best.


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## sumbeech (May 19, 2005)

I've had my eyes set on getting myself a fish-n-dive this month, well, I stopped in Texas Paddler in Beaumont to do a little browsing and as luck would have it he had just got one in, the bad news is that the 2006 model has been redesigned and the slots for your feet are now more narrow than before and my feet will not fit if I have my beach shoes on, they will barely fit without shoes. John, the owner (and very nice/helpful guy) suggested that I look at the Drifter or the Tarpon 130, now I'm 6' 3" and 240 lbs. and will not buy one that I do not feel completely stable in. I've seen several comments on many different boats but not too many on the tarpon. Now I plan on meeting up with John and taking several on some test runs in about a week, but I would welcome any input on the Tarpon. I don't give a **** about speed, for me it's all about stability.

Tony


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## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

sumbeech said:


> I've had my eyes set on getting myself a fish-n-dive this month, well, I stopped in Texas Paddler in Beaumont to do a little browsing and as luck would have it he had just got one in, the bad news is that the 2006 model has been redesigned and the slots for your feet are now more narrow than before and my feet will not fit if I have my beach shoes on, they will barely fit without shoes. John, the owner (and very nice/helpful guy) suggested that I look at the Drifter or the Tarpon 130, now I'm 6' 3" and 240 lbs. and will not buy one that I do not feel completely stable in. I've seen several comments on many different boats but not too many on the tarpon. Now I plan on meeting up with John and taking several on some test runs in about a week, but I would welcome any input on the Tarpon. I don't give a **** about speed, for me it's all about stability.
> 
> Tony


Most tarpons are built for speed. I have paddled a t140 and a t160. Both are great bay or flat water kayaks, two of the best. I have not got a chance to paddle the T130. If I rember right the T130 is a tandem kayak. All tandem kayaks are stable, but usually have poor storage. Mostly due to the fact they have to give up space for the extra seat. But if you have kids or want to paddle your wife or girlfriend around they are perfect.

The Ocean Kayak drifter is a great kayak. It will do any thing you want. It is made for big guys. The only complants about the drifter is the cockpit stays wet. If you surf fish, then you are wet any way and this is not a problem. If you bay fish or flat water then just plug the scuppler holes.

I was at John's shop last night. He also has a Cobra Navigator that is last years model that he has a great price on. Might want to try that one also. Just tell him to give you the "Jolly Roger" price.

If you want to try a Malibu kayak, let me know. I will hook you up with Benny. He is the sales rep for Malibu kayaks.

John is a great guy. And I would highly suggest buying a kayak from him. He will spend the extra time to make sure that you get into a Kayak that is perfect for you. Also has some very cool canoes in his shop. Makes my old aluminum canoe look like krap. I could have covered twice as much water and ground with some of the canoes in his shop.


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## shadslinger (Aug 21, 2005)

Thanks for excellent information. I was just online nailing down a kayak so I can yak baits in the surf, I happened on the post and now think the Ocean Frenzy is probably best for me. I am going to call academy and Gander mountian check for availiability and hopefully pick it up tomorrow so I can fish Sea Rim. It's been a while and I ready to surf fish!


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## 3192 (Dec 30, 2004)

JR..have you had a chance to see how the Hurricane Phoenix 14' is going to do in the surf?
galvbay


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## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

galvbay said:


> JR..have you had a chance to see how the Hurricane Phoenix 14' is going to do in the surf?
> galvbay


have not got a chance to paddle the Phoenix yet. Fast looking kayak, and lot of people seem to like them.


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## airbornelurp (Mar 27, 2006)

great post , i started kayaking this weekend, and it wasnt as hard as i thought it was. i bought a pelican castaway 116 at academy for $385, i was pretty happy with the stability and the speed.


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## Dolphin Girl (May 21, 2004)

bump


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