# Why spiral wrap?



## jaycook (Sep 13, 2007)

I've heard a lot of claims about what the benefits are of a spiral, acid, or revolver wrap. Can somebody give me all the proven benefits of rotating the guides around to the bottom of the blank. I'm not concerned about which direction they go, that's a subject for a totally different heated argument.


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## Billy 40 (Apr 3, 2008)

It' smore comfortable when fighiting a fish, or working a lure straight up and down. REal simple way to see the benefits is to build identical rods one straight nad one spiral and fish 1/2 the day with one the other half the day with the other and see if you notice a difference. If you don't - then build it straight. If you do, build it spiral. Pretty simple solution?


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## jaycook (Sep 13, 2007)

Ok, I've heard that before. Sounds reasonable. Any other benefits that anybody else knows?


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## Swampland (Mar 25, 2008)

Zero torque when fighting a fish. When rod is loaded with guides on top your line is trying to twist your rod tip towards the bottom. With guides spiraled the twist is eliminated completely.


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## theyallbreak (Jan 29, 2012)

You cast further also from the testing I have done


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## BRH (May 11, 2011)

This should be interesting.

I've come to my own conclusions over years of building both, but will be interested to hear what others say.

I will say that one of the factors that spiral wrapped proponents will cite is "rod torque".

For a sake of the numbers, letâ€™s look at the math.

Torque is defined as force times lengthâ€¦ commonly seen as ft/lbs.

The base of the ring on a Fuji #8 stripper is 4mm, and that of the 6, 5, and 4 guides are all roughly 2mm. So for arguments sake letâ€™s assume a 2mm distance from line to blank from the middle to the tip. 

Max drag on most of the reels we are using is about 10lbs, so letâ€™s assume you have them cranked all the way down.

So at most the torque on your rod would beâ€¦
2mm / 25.4mm (25.4mm/in) =0.0787402
0.0787402in / 12in (12in/ft) = 0.0065617
0.0065617ft x 10 lbs = 0.0656168 ft/lbs
Even if you multiply that by 7â€™ (length of a typical rod) you still end up with less than Â½ a ft/lb

Iâ€™m sure that someone out there is a physicist and will argue my numbers, but I would argue that the advantages of a spiral reducing torque are minimal. 

And like I said, those are my opinionsâ€¦ but Iâ€™d still like to hear what others think!


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## wild man (Apr 17, 2014)

No line slap so smoother drag because line the stays in the guide and not touch the blank when guides are on top; also less amount of guides, because of this lighter tip for better sensitivity. When the line goes under rod it kills the microwave in the line for a longer casting. Because it's oddity it will not sell so I have stop trying to sell it to people, but on my fishing rods they are all twisted


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## jaycook (Sep 13, 2007)

Well, I'm convinced.


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## Billy 40 (Apr 3, 2008)

wild man said:


> No line slap so smoother drag because line the stays in the guide and not touch the blank when guides are on top;


The line shouldn't be touching the blank one way or the other



> When the line goes under rod it kills the microwave in the line for a longer casting.


What in the world does this mean?

As far as distance goes, unless you have done some extensive testing tests - you do not know this for a fact. I happened to have done side by side testing and what a lot of people claim about distance is not the truth. This goes for various guide set ups for spinning rods and the microwaves.


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## colbyntx (Jul 18, 2013)

I'm not sure on the science Jay but I have fished a lot all my life. I fish baitcasters 99.9% of the time. When I got my first BillyStix spril wrap, I fell in love then bought another.


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## katjim00 (Jan 8, 2009)

I get the idea behind spiral wraps. What I don't get is the loads it creates on the guides that are not on top or bottom. Seems to me it would be putting a lot of extra stress on the thread and finish. Seems like none of the load on those guides would be supported by the blank.


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## patfatdaddy (May 29, 2004)

I have built a set of 4 rods, 2 spiral wrapped and 2 conventional. All on the same blank. I fished all 4 rods for about 10 trips. I could not tell any difference in performance but it seemed that the conventionals were more comfortable. I traded the two spiral wrapped for a new reel. I tried to be as open minded as I could and give it a true test. This is just one mans opinion and I am not trying to convince anyone.


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## keithlake (Dec 8, 2009)

I like the spirals , takes a while looking at them at first. I have several spirals & get to use them often. I am happy to have a fish on & really don't notice or I guess pay attention to the torque of the rod. To busy thinking FISH ON.


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## cfulbright (Jun 24, 2009)

What about the rod rolling, and damaging the blank. Jay believe I remember you saying that Synit requiring there rods be spiraled... I would be interested in what they have to say about why.


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## VooDoo (Jan 30, 2013)

I've made them for myself & still use one occasionally,but I personally do not care for them on a inshore or freshwater rod where the angler does a lot of repetitive casting. A Fuji K 10/5.5/4.5s to tip set up cant be beat IMO. However, I make a number of flippin' rods where the customer wants the spiral. They claim it gives them more lure contol & feels beter on the pitch & better fish control on the retrieve. Right or wrong, If the customer is happy then all is good.


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## hookset4 (Nov 8, 2004)

Lots of construction workers on this board. Maybe this will help. If you are picking up a heavy load with a crane, where is the hook placed on the end of the crane boom to hook the load to? Conventional guide wrap theory would put the hook on the TOP of the boom. Anyone in construction would laugh at that as ludicrous. We all know the hook is placed on the bottom of the boom as that is where gravity and the load dictate location. A spiral accomplishes this with a fishing rod. Torque exists because the load a fish creates tries to pull the guide to the bottom of the rod by twisting the rod.

Loads are not nearly as large on a fishing rod but the principle is the same. There is torque eliminated with the spiral design but it is not a HUGE force. Those who use spinning gear experience no torque whatsoever because their guides are always located on the bottom of the rod.

Both designs catch fish without major problems. If you don't see the benefit of a spiral wrap or just 'think it looks stupid', don't use one. There are advantages of the spiral design, but they are not overwhelming in most instances. Conventional rods work well enough and land plenty of fish.

I see no gains in casting distance with a spiral. 

-hook


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## wild man (Apr 17, 2014)

Billy 40 said:


> The line shouldn't be touching the blank one way or the other
> 
> What in the world does this mean?
> 
> As far as distance goes, unless you have done some extensive testing tests - you do not know this for a fact. I happened to have done side by side testing and what a lot of people claim about distance is not the truth. This goes for various guide set ups for spinning rods and the microwaves.


I have do some extensive study Billy Willie and u don't know what your talking about. Do your testing up on Toledo bend with wind blowing about 15mph. I have an opinion. I guarantee u that American tackle spinning micro out cast the Fuji setup.


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## wild man (Apr 17, 2014)

Billy 40 said:


> The line shouldn't be touching the blank one way or the other
> 
> Some people think that u spiral with micro guide, if u do the line will touch at the crossing point of the blank.
> 
> ...


Hey I click on that YouTube video what does that mean!!!


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## wild man (Apr 17, 2014)

*Ajustment*

Spiral wrapped. If u just lob a rod when u cast instead of loading a rod up and zipping that cast with some velocity of the weight of the bait of the end u will never understand what I'm saying. Also u have to release sooner because with spiral wrap the tip is turned under so the bait is coming off the bottom of the rod. If not u tend short cast which causes backlash.


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## Billy 40 (Apr 3, 2008)

wild man said:


> I have do some extensive study Billy Willie and u don't know what your talking about. .


I'm going to give you an example of "extensive testing": https://www.facebook.com/notes/the-nerbs/test-casting-results/388737277838174

I would love to see the results and data from your version of extensive testing. That video that you clicked on and watched - it made no sense, right?


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## wild man (Apr 17, 2014)

Billy 40 said:


> I'm going to give you an example of "extensive testing": https://www.facebook.com/notes/the-nerbs/test-casting-results/388737277838174
> 
> I would love to see the results and data from your version of extensive testing. That video that you clicked on and watched - it made no sense, right?


That video took me to the miss teenage pageant


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## Jean Scurtu (Dec 6, 2011)

wild man said:


> That video took me to the miss teenage pageant


:texasflag

I don't fish with bait-casting rod,just with spinning rods and i ask myself why the factory don't build the bait casting rods with spiral wrap if testing show is better???
In the same time i am asking myself if you are right handler why you cast with right hand and after you move the rod in left hand how long you can find left bait-casting reels???


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## Lone-Star (Dec 19, 2009)

I find it is much easier to work tops and corkys facing into the wind with a spiral wrapped rod as the line does not get caught on the tip as it often does for me with dogwalking style retrieves into a stiff wind when using braid.


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## jreynolds (Jul 19, 2010)

90% of my casting rods are built as spirals.


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## fishinaggie78 (Aug 17, 2005)

*Spiral wrap*

I started building custom rods about a year ago after I had one built for myself by Allen Pierce. It is a sweet 6'6" spiral wrapped Aggie rod. 
That said, I am far from being an experienced rod builder - just trying to get better on each one & stay hungry for knowledge. Since then, I have built 11 baitcasters for various friends and customers, and *all* have been spiral wrapped. There are 14 trout/redfish rod & reel setups in my rod rack. The 3 that are spiral wrapped go on every fishing trip - that's how much I personally like them. Terry @ FTU has mentioned more than once, during some of our discussions, that he builds *only* spiral wrapped baitcasters.


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## patfatdaddy (May 29, 2004)

To each his own.


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## jaycook (Sep 13, 2007)

So, I'm confused, a little. Or maybe a lot, I don't know. There is some talk of eliminating torque with a spiral. It seems to me that there still has to be a little torque to which ever side the guides spiral too. Because of the line transitioning around to the bottom and slightly pulling down on the bumper guides. What if I start spiraling the guides to the left, go underneath and back up halfway up the right side, then back to the bottom to the tip? That way the torque would cancel itself out. And think about how much of the microwave it would eliminate. 

Knowledge is king. Knowing where to find it is priceless.


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## Billy 40 (Apr 3, 2008)

IT'll be like a windshield wiper


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## jaycook (Sep 13, 2007)

What about when you cast, you pivot the rod around like you're making a bunch of little "O's" with the tip. Real fast like. Would you go clockwise or counterclockwise to eliminate the microwave? The reason I ask is because I build art rods and they do not perform like a real rod should. I need all the advantage I can get. If I can't figure this out, I'm going to start making chopsticks instead of rods.


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## wild man (Apr 17, 2014)

jaycook said:


> What about when you cast, you pivot the rod around like you're making a bunch of little "O's" with the tip. Real fast like. Would you go clockwise or counterclockwise to eliminate the microwave? The reason I ask is because I build art rods and they do not perform like a real rod should. I need all the advantage I can get. If I can't figure this out, I'm going to start making chopsticks instead of rods.


Wow somebody has there panties in a knot!!!!! Yea want u go to hobby lobby and get u a canvas and some art brushes and start panting. U know u started this thread to get me to bit. Now u got this bit bull lock on I guess u going to have to handle it. My offer steal stands come over to my shop and I will gladly give u some lesson on what I have actually been saying about casting and maybe teach u how not to build a deadstix.


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## wild man (Apr 17, 2014)

Jean Scurtu said:


> :texasflag
> 
> I don't fish with bait-casting rod,just with spinning rods and i ask myself why the factory don't build the bait casting rods with spiral wrap if testing show is better???
> In the same time i am asking myself if you are right handler why you cast with right hand and after you move the rod in left hand how long you can find left bait-casting reels???


The odd look want sale. In the 1970 with lew Childress rods they learn that geometric spacing on the guides sold rod it was called the Christmas tree effect. From the tip down each guide is spaced down a little further a part hens a x mas tree. Marketing gets into everything.


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## jaycook (Sep 13, 2007)

wild man said:


> Wow somebody has there panties in a knot!!!!! Yea want u go to hobby lobby and get u a canvas and some art brushes and start panting. U know u started this thread to get me to bit. Now u got this bit bull lock on I guess u going to have to handle it. My offer steal stands come over to my shop and I will gladly give u some lesson on what I have actually been saying about casting and maybe teach u how not to build a deadstix.


I'm just trying to learn. This is all Greek to me.


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## jaycook (Sep 13, 2007)

Since a spiral wrap will take the microwave out of the line, can I spiral wrap a spinning rod and not use the Frankenstein guide?


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## mark blabaum (Dec 6, 2007)

Bennie, I know that your mind is closed and I don't know why I'm even posting on this. I think that there are some benefits to spiral wrapping, I'm just not sure that it's on light bass equipment. I have a feeling on heavy equipment for salt water, catfish and sturgeon you would see a real benefit.

On the subject of line control with a ******* micro wave, if you go to you tube 



 Fuji has a couple of good videos on line control. The bait casting segment starts at about the 5:00 mark. They have spent a good deal of money on high speed videos and testing of the system. In my experience their system works and works well. Bennie, for the fun of it I put together a similar system to your microwave system and noticed no difference between your system and Fuji's. At best you have to pay for an extra guide that isn't needed or useful. I'm not trying to insult you, but your declaring over, over, over, over and over that your system is better doesn't make it so. If you have video of your system that proves your point I'd like to see it, but your proclaiming that it's better doesn't make it so.


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## jaycook (Sep 13, 2007)

Mark, that's very well said. And for the record, I'll agree with you that there is a benefit to a spiral wrap. I think it does take the torque out of a rod, but like you say, I think it's negligible on these light setups. I see nothing wrong with using it, some people want every little advantage they can get and that is the purpose of what we do. But, IMHO, the spiral wrap really shines offshore when using a ton of drag pulling on tuna, grouper, amberjack etc. 

As far as the microwave guide, it does have some unique attributes. I've heard people claim that it feels smoother when casting, it's quieter, and a little less guess work when figuring out the guide spacing. And, the fact that so many people don't even consider is that it takes a little weight off the tip section by having all the loop reduction farther back on the blank, allowing for smaller guides up front. But, I'll stick with the Fuji system. 

I'm not an expert, and I've never even stayed in a holiday inn express. The opinions stated are my own. And yes Bennie, you bit, hook line and sinker. Thank you.


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## wild man (Apr 17, 2014)

mark blabaum said:


> Bennie, I know that your mind is closed and I don't know why I'm even posting on this. I think that there are some benefits to spiral wrapping, I'm just not sure that it's on light bass equipment. I have a feeling on heavy equipment for salt water, catfish and sturgeon you would see a real benefit.
> 
> On the subject of line control with a ******* micro wave, if you go to you tube
> 
> ...


 the point is that the rod with microwave cast smother because the microwave is neil after that ******* guide and that give the spinning reel less viberation which provides more accuracy which u really need when u bait cast with a spinning rod. the fuji in the video still has microwave through the first three guide from the stripper. hay if u would have been at the 2013 texas rod show with an open mind u would have a side by side show of the difference. hey i have two rod made and thats bull. do u think i would talk this with out testing it, hell i fished both of them. i sure would like to get with u down in mid county some where end this argument. bulk bulk bulk i was married to a women in mid county and i found they where very close minded people.


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## Billy 40 (Apr 3, 2008)

wild man said:


> do u think i would talk this with out testing it,


yes


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## jaycook (Sep 13, 2007)

wild man said:


> i sure would like to get with u down in mid county.


 Bennie, please stop making passes at me. I will NOT make out with you.


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## wild man (Apr 17, 2014)

*spiril wrapped guides*



wild man said:


> the point is that the rod with microwave cast smother because the microwave is neil after that ******* guide and that give the spinning reel less viberation which provides more accuracy which u really need when u bait cast with a spinning rod. the fuji in the video still has microwave through the first three guide from the stripper. hay if u would have been at the 2013 texas rod show with an open mind u would have a side by side show of the difference. hey i have two rod made and thats bull. do u think i would talk this with out testing it, hell i fished both of them. i sure would like to get with u down in mid county some where end this argument. bulk bulk bulk i was married to a women in mid county and i found they where very close minded people.


 mark spiral wrapped was being done in the sixties it was called roberts wrap. i was told that a man name roberts was the man that fist did it. it is very important for small rod because of twisting the tip out of a rod. i have change a lot twisted tip and what happen is the tip will twist all the way around to the bottom and thus twist the blank out. when im building a 200 dollar blank and the tip look like a match stix three inches out and it is an in shore or bass rod i want to sell the spiral wrap, because i do not want to cut my custom rod. my custom rod is a part of me i and try ever thing to protect it from breaking. i twisted a tip at lake fork on nine pound bass he hit then ran under the boat rapping my rod around the bottom of the boat it was boron glass mix it was my top water and crankbait rod. i hated this because i did not spiral wrapped that was a very expensive blank at the time. i have a rule that i go by it is if the blank is below a 4 power spiral wrap if u can. if u go the microwave or fuji post u will see a 42 lb drum caught on one my rods read what is said.


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## Louarn (Jul 26, 2013)

lol


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## mark blabaum (Dec 6, 2007)

Bennie, I'm reading what you've written and have the ability to comprehend even with the nonsensical writing that you have put into print, but your pontificating that it works better doesn't make it so. I've done more than a couple of spiral wrapped rods and on light tackle the advantages are negligible if any. I'm really not closed minded, I'm not the one that has over half a dozen posts on this forum telling you that I'm the only one on this board that knows anything with out any supporting documentation. 

The definition of close-mindÂ·ed
adjective
adjective: close-minded
having or showing rigid opinions or a narrow outlook.

I am however not an idÂ·iÂ·ot
ËˆidÄ“É™t
noun informal
a stupid person.

Bennie, if you want to spiral wrap a light weight rod, by all means do so. I would appreciate it if you would follow your own advice and open your mind. I've found more than once that feelings don't always translate to fact.


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