# Getting ready for season. Age and score/ should shoot or not shoot.



## broadonrod (Feb 26, 2010)

I have a few pics of deer from the Nunley Chittim/Holden Roofing Pasture that everyone can have fun with and give opinions of wackum or not wackum- age and score. Each deer I have 2-3 years of pictures so I will post them as we go. I have most of the info pretty much on all these bucks I am posting.. This could be a fun thread. Its a tough one but should be fun. All of these deer are South Texas, Low Fence, natural genetics and the ranch is protein feed. Our average buck post mature will *dress out at* 165-185lbs our 6-7 year olds average 195-220lbs depending on the time of season so you know how big the bodies are to judge.

If you say "shoot" explain why and I may be able to post why we did or why we did not shoot the deer. We are working on a video now with over one hundred bucks and they will age through out the video. This may help us answer a lot of questions in the video before we even get rolling.* If this thread turns out fun Ill try and find several more to mess with... Thanks Brett*

*The buck on the right in the top picture is the same year and same buck as the buck in the bottom picture. *
*#1 age*
*#2 score*
*#3 WACKUM!*
*#4 let him walk he will be better next year.*


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## wicked wades (Jul 28, 2009)

Age- 6, Buck in to his left looks to be 8.
Score- 174
You wrote a good piece on how ya'll let the deer really age out. Like you said as they get older they lose body mass but gain antler mass, so let him walk.


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## Reel Screamer (Jun 8, 2004)

6 yr old
168
Given you management program, I say give him another year.


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## Swampus (Sep 1, 2005)

With seeing ur big bucks at this age I think U would cull this buck--not enough mass and width................(just a guess)


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## PowderhornRanchPOC (May 29, 2011)

1. 5 yo
2. 158-164
3. walks


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## BigPig069 (May 20, 2006)

1. 6 years old2. 162
3. With y'all management program, let him walk!


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## wishin4fishin (May 21, 2004)

I am thinking 5.5 in that pic which should put him at 6.5 this year. Score in the low 60's. Knowing you and your program I think it depends on what stand location he is at as to whether you whackem or not. He's got something funny going on with the end of that right beam that could turn into something interesting in the next couple years. He doesn't have the mass that a lot of your bucks do at that age. If you have two or three dominate bucks at that location then whackem as a cull for a youngster. ðŸ˜€. I know just the girl for the job ðŸ˜‰.

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## Flight Cancelled (Jul 7, 2010)

I've actually sit and watched some of these deer and listened to Brett talk about what he lets his herd do...which is amazing most people are shooting them at 5 to 6 because the see them fall off at 6 to 7 but Brett will let em go another year and they explode....the deer my wife's brother shot was aged at 10.5 or 9.5 can't remember but the year before he had a 10"drop that year he shot him he was slick 8....they truly have an amazing program


I'm gonna say this deer is 5.5 and will not cull him....I don't think he will think about shooting this deer for another 2 maybe 3 years


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## SSST (Jun 9, 2011)

This is way outta the league of the deer i'm used to judging, but i would say he's 5.5 in the pics, and gonna say you won't cull him yet, i'd put him right at the 160 mark.


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## PortATrout (Aug 15, 2005)

Looks to be around 5 or 6 to me.
Score around 140
Not great tine length, short beams, and poor mass 
If it made a hunter happy to shoot him it wouldn't bother me but if it was just to cull, let him live another year or two and see what happens.


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## 610 & 1/2 (Jul 31, 2011)

I'd say that buck is 5.5 or 6.5. His back legs still look long comapred to his hindquarters, so not real old yet. If that age is correct, let him walk, he still has upside potential.


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## BabyBear24 (Feb 5, 2013)

Really can't see where y'all are getting 160+. That bucks 145 maxed to me. Don't see 100in platform or anywhere close to 60+ sticking up.


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## mako (Nov 10, 2004)

5.5 yrs, 150"
Great deer for a youngster to shoot, not going to get much better with age.


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## SSST (Jun 9, 2011)

BabyBear24 said:


> Really can't see where y'all are getting 160+. That bucks 145 maxed to me. Don't see 100in platform or anywhere close to 60+ sticking up.


I really didn't see 160 either, but i always seem to under-estimate S. Tx deer, so added about 10.


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## broadonrod (Feb 26, 2010)

The buck in the picture looks to me like a 6 year old also. These old bucks come in and own an area over years. This area was his for sure. The thing about this buck is he is much older than he looks. We watched this buck for about 7 straight years. The first year we saw him he was about 145 and had close to the exact frame he has in the picture. His beam has always dropped down on the end making him unmistakable. This picture of him is 2 seasons ago and his worst rack since he was about 3 years old. At 6 this buck was a nine point with split brows. Still better looking than in the picture here. We came very close to letting a youth hunter take this buck but decided he was in such good shape we would let him walk. What ever he scores in the picture 145-160 I'm not sure there are guesses all over the place I'm thinking 150 ish. He was a little heavier than he looks here at the bases. We have a really hard time judging deer off pictures and so many people have so many different opinions that it makes it really tough to know what a management buck really is. Deer like this on any ranch I have ever been on would have been taken. I would have been the first to raise my hand to get the extra/ management buck. I will be the first to say I am learning every day I'm on this place. It's been very fun watching and seeing things like this happen. I'm not trying to set a trap and mislead anyone with this I just hear alot of talk in the deer world about the bucks on the ranch being special. All we are doing is letting them get really old and keeping them on a good feed program. Like I said at first .. In the picture I would argue the age at 6 years old.. The number one thing is to have everyone on the same page. We have just now got that with a great group of guys that work together in the judgment weather a deer is taken as a cull or management buck. Leaving bucks like this and having high numbers of 140-160s seem to up the odds in seeing one explode into a trophy. If they are given a chance we have learned that many if them will surprise you and that's what lease hunting is all about" the surprise".. At least to us.. We don't fly the place anymore so that even ups the excitement, we use very few trail cams at feed locations to add to the excitement even more. We have learned that a buck like this doesn't ruin a place but actually becomes a buck of a lifetime to many hunters. Deer hunting has become pretty Johnny on the spot with helicopters, game cams, biologist , MLD, DRP and all of that stuff. If anyone wants ill keep this thread rolling as long as possible with pics of bucks that have done this and even much better. I thought I would post these up and maybe just offer our ideas to everyone with some examples. We look for several reasons not to shoot a buck instead of trying to find reasons to shoot them over years of having the place the results is numerous trophies aval to all lease members, lots of deer to watch, and genetics getting an extra couple of years to spread shooting them on their second uphill swing. I know I'm prob going to get beat up here  Sorry for the long post I just love deer hunting

Here is the picture of this buck last year at 176-7/8s with an 10-7/8s drop tine. That score is from an official Boone & Crocket scorer. 
I sure hope this makes since I typed this on my phone 

Like I said again I would have never believed what these deer are doing at these ages when I leased this ranch ,our goal was 5-6 years old 11 years ago.. Ill getter up on this thread in the next few days if anyone wants to see them. Brett


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## broadonrod (Feb 26, 2010)

Got all fired up typing about deer and forgot the picture


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## broadonrod (Feb 26, 2010)

First pic the other buck stayed the same.. See what he does this year.. Should be 9 years old.


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## Jfreeman (Nov 3, 2004)

Looks to be 5.
150 class
Wack, I'd say this bucks genetics are lacking compared to the upper end bucks on the ranch.


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## Soapeddler (Jun 18, 2006)

Love this thread and do hope you keep it going, at least until you start your 2013-2014 official thread...

I am a little confused. That buck with the right beam that turns down is unmistakeable. Definitely not the same buck as the one with the drop tine. I thought you were showing the age progression of that buck, but lost you somewhere.

As far as my guess on age, even before you said you'd been watching him for 7 years, I was guessing about that age. Really, I was!


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## ranchpeddler (Aug 19, 2005)

*8 points*

Great post and I really enjoy reading it! What are your thoughts on 8 points? Have you seen some 8's develop more than 8 points and become huge trophies?


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## Josh5 (Jun 27, 2007)

Great thread....keep teaching and posting pics please.

Please say again how old he was when he was killed. I lost count in your long post.


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## Jfreeman (Nov 3, 2004)

We'll it looks like he turned out to be a pretty good buck. It's more of a numbers game than anything. Like you said if you leave a large population of 140-160" deer some of them will explode. If your feed program/browse can support the number of deer there is no reason to not let them live.


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## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

Brett, that's the same buck? The right main beam doesn't turn down in the last pictures.

I'd sure like him on my wall lmao.

TH


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## broadonrod (Feb 26, 2010)

Trouthunter said:


> Brett, that's the same buck? The right main beam doesn't turn down in the last pictures.
> 
> I'd sure like him on my wall lmao.
> 
> TH


Yes Sr. Def the same buck. This was the first year his beam turned up. Just kinda shows how much they can change. It seems like the bucks you expect to become really good ones stay the same and the one you don't except to do anything surprise you.


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## broadonrod (Feb 26, 2010)

Josh5 said:


> Great thread....keep teaching and posting pics please.
> 
> Please say again how old he was when he was killed. I lost count in your long post.


We never know exactly but this buck was a minimum of 9 years old and prob 10 when he was taken. We came very close to taking him the year before and sure was surprised to see what he ended up doing. His body went down hill quite a bit last year when he was taken but as you can see his head got much better. Letting these buck go for all these years has really been a fun learning experience. Some go down and some go up at these ages but like mentioned above with the numbers and having so many bucks this age you never know what your going to see. It's a little different but a lot if fun for sure and gives the lease hunters a lot to choose from. Brett


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## broadonrod (Feb 26, 2010)

Here is another buck. This video was taken in 2009/10 season. I have a picture of him during the 2010/11 season. The 2 bucks on the video came in from 2 different directions and met up all confused :smile:. We were calling coyotes sitting right next to a pump jack and had several bucks come running in that day. Does anyone want to guess on the second buck in the video?

*Age?*

*Score?*

*Shoot as cull?*

*Let him walk?*

This is a tough one to age but Im pretty sure we have a accurate age estimate on him. Watch his front and back end close as well as his knees shoulders and hips once he starts to get by us. Ill post 2010/11 pics later after we get a few guesses.

This is a very big body deer so keep in mind his body size when scoring.

Here is the video its all I could find on this buck without getting into the old laptop  Brett


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## Soapeddler (Jun 18, 2006)

5.5


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## BIG PAPPA (Apr 1, 2008)

*If I may*



ranchpeddler said:


> Great post and I really enjoy reading it! What are your thoughts on 8 points? Have you seen some 8's develop more than 8 points and become huge trophies?


I've been on Ranch's that would kick you Off for Not taking a 4 yr old 8 or older regardless of kickers/splits.
I know one 8 that comes to mind with your question. This Deer lived on a Ranch in Tilden area and at 4 Yrs old, He developed a drop on one side, at 5 he had double drops one on each side. at 6 he lost a drop but blew up with Kickers ect. at 7 he lost that drop but got the other on back and he was harvested at 209 B&C. The Deers Name was El-Wappo(Pretty Boy)
and was extremely heavy. So Age was the Ticket on that deer. Just Like On Bretts Place. Food, Water, Age and Great Management holds the Key.


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## BIG PAPPA (Apr 1, 2008)

*Last Video*

That Video Looks Like a Youth Deer to Me...Plenty Old.. Maybe 10 + by looking at the Flab Swingin left to right hanging below his Brisket.
Dirt Nap.
Ground Check
pow....Whop....


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## broadonrod (Feb 26, 2010)

Soapeddler said:


> 5.5


Ok anymore guesses on this ones age and score? Ill put up the following years picture in a little while..


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## 610 & 1/2 (Jul 31, 2011)

That deer has the leaner look of a younger buck, say 4 or 5. But i'd guess he is older than that and somewhat run down from the rut. I'd score him at high 140's, may make 150. With the frame he has (good width and decent tine length) i'd give him another year.


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## broadonrod (Feb 26, 2010)

Here is a picture the following season of the same buck. It's the best one I could find not really a great picture. He did put some inches on. Anyone want to take another shot at age and score of him in this picture? Would you go ahead and take him or let him walk again? The video was 09/10 deer season this picture is of the buck in the 10/11 deer season.


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## backlashingcooger (Aug 2, 2006)

broadonrod said:


> Here is a picture the following season of the same buck. It's the best one I could find not really a great picture. He did put some inches on. Anyone want to take another shot at age and score of him in this picture? Would you go ahead and take him or let him walk again? The video was 09/10 deer season this picture is of the buck in the 10/11 deer season.
> View attachment 823937


The belly is still not hanging down. I do not see him getting much wider but I can see some more trash. I like what I see as far passing it on.

You are truly blessed to have such a place. Most of us just read and dream.

Thank you for sharing with us


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## broadonrod (Feb 26, 2010)

backlashingcooger said:


> The belly is still not hanging down. I do not see him getting much wider but I can see some more trash. I like what I see as far passing it on.
> 
> You are truly blessed to have such a place. Most of us just read and dream.
> 
> Thank you for sharing with us


Thank you. Before I found this place and talked to the owner I never imagined having a place like this. We had been threw so many bad ones:/.. It is a lot if fun seeing these bucks grow and getting to hunt a place like this. I really enjoy sharing it and our ideas. 
This buck has rutted out in the picture and seems very thin. At one time he was a huge body deer .. He is very old. This buck is another one that we watched since the first year we were on the ranch. He maintained an 8-9 point frame most of his life. This picture where he looks super leaned out is more age than anything. His head is really big and makes his ears look small when really the ears are about 18-19" strait out. His body fell prob 25 % in 09/10 and even more in the 10/11 season. The buck was taken last season with his best rack ever by far. We are pretty sure this buck was taken at 11 maybe 12 years old. He at one time would have field dressed around 215 and weighed about 150 lat season on the hoof. He did just what you said and grew trash including a small drop and got heavier. He ended up being a 14 point I believe. I saw the buck early last season and told the hunter about him.. Letting him go was a great call making a great trophy. 
Letting bucks get this old doesn't always work out the way you hope but it sure has offered our hunters multiple extra trophies and hasn't seem to effect out genetics in any negative way.
Ill post his picture up in a few minutes from last year watch what he did at 11-12 years old from 2010-11 season to 2011/12 season.


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## broadonrod (Feb 26, 2010)

Ill put up some more if anyone wants to see some other old bucks progress . I sure hope I kept count of all these seasons lol.. If not here is the buck from above last year ..


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## Law Dog (Jul 27, 2010)

5 yr old
160
With a good management program, I say give him another year and let him walk!


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## broadonrod (Feb 26, 2010)

The last picture was him last year. Official score 176 6/8s B&C. I don't think he ever made it over 160 before last year. He never made over 145 for 8 years and figured him right at 160 on the 9th year we saw him. A lease member took him last season the day after I took that picture. Deer are very hard to age and judge off a photo this buck was watched for 10 seasons. He was another buck that lived and kinda owned one of the protien stations.


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## broadonrod (Feb 26, 2010)




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## backlashingcooger (Aug 2, 2006)

Like most things.. It takes time. Like most we just get impatient The thing is we are really in the first or second generation of hunters when it comes to wildlife management.


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## broadonrod (Feb 26, 2010)

Here is a buck over a 4 year period I have pics somewhere of him at 2-1/2. We haven't set in this area yet this season to see what he has done this year. He rutted very hard last season so could have gone up or down. He changed very little in 3 years keeping very short tines and close to the same spread and put quite a few inches on last year. We are pretty sure of his ages from seeing him 5 years now. I can't find most of the pictures of him these are the best I have here at the office. I think I have these lined up right 4-5 years old he almost looked exactly the same but was trying to split on his left beam and got a little heavier .. We were surprised to see the tines grow as long as they did after 3-5 years old being so short. His mass really took off at 5 years old and even better at 6.. Looking forward to seeing what this buck does if this buck made it after the hard core rut last year.. He hardly had a tine left by end of season. Think I have this right .. I have so many pictures on this computer its getting pretty confusing :smile:. Brett Holden


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## BIG PAPPA (Apr 1, 2008)

*He's Awsome*

I Can't wait to see him again. I spent All my SD Card space filming That Deer last year. Talk about getting your Blood Pumping. When he turns that head to clear the Brush opening just to walk out.......Whew...That Dude Gave me something I hadn't had in years....A Lil Dose of Good Ole Buck Fever. But I think You're Holdin Out Last Years Pic's Of him Ma Brutha. I think His Tines were longer when I was Filming him..Correct??


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## wishin4fishin (May 21, 2004)

I know that deer. It's one of the deer you showed a pic to me last year and I used it as a screen saver. Crazy how much mass he put on over the last couple years. He is a super buck that is going to be a hell of a trophy assuming he made it thru the rut. Really interested to see what he looks like this year. You got a good thing goin on brotha. Let me know when you need some help scouting ;-).

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## broadonrod (Feb 26, 2010)

wishin4fishin said:


> I know that deer. It's one of the deer you showed a pic to me last year and I used it as a screen saver. Crazy how much mass he put on over the last couple years. He is a super buck that is going to be a hell of a trophy assuming he made it thru the rut. Really interested to see what he looks like this year. You got a good thing goin on brotha. Let me know when you need some help scouting ;-).
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free


 one of our hunters saw him a couple of days ago. This is a pic he took with his cell phone.. Hope to have a better picture the next few days.. The good thing is he did make it threw the rut. .. Looks wider and the brow tines look longer. He has been an 11 point in the past and this year my buddy said he is a perfect 6x6.. He only got to watch him for a few seconds but looks good from the back .. I'm surprised he even looks this good as hard as that buck was rutting and fighting last year.


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## broadonrod (Feb 26, 2010)

Forgot the pic..


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## nate56 (Dec 11, 2010)

That pic you had showing that 8-1/2 doesn't look his age ...might be of head on pic you have but I would've lost a bet it being that old... Help me out on this one..


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## broadonrod (Feb 26, 2010)

nate56 said:


> That pic you had showing that 8-1/2 doesn't look his age ...might be of head on pic you have but I would've lost a bet it being that old... Help me out on this one..


Nate that is the buck I took 2 seasons ago. I watched him for 6-7 years at the same stand. I have years of pictures of him and will try and put them together like I did the buck above. He was estimated at 205-207" in that picture. He was officially scored 215 5/8s if I remember right he next year when I took him. The teeth were cut and aged at 9 1/2. The buck was still in great shape over all and the side angles do show his age better. If you look in that picture you can see the swollen knees and loose skin in the brisket. He even has swollen hooves in the picture above. His body weight had fallen prob 20-30 lbs when he was 8 and prob another 10-20 lbs at 9 but still very healthy. Seems like the bodies get smaller and everything goes to the deer's head at about 9 years old on many.. It can make them hard to age for sure at a quick glance or single photo. That old buck aged very well and his head never really changed that much. Early season he seemed to look 6 for 3 years in a row.. He was a hard one to pass at 8 1/2 for sure. 
Here is a close up of that buck at 8 1/2 and here he is when I took him at 9 1/2.. Ill try to find the pics of him threw the years before I head back to the ranch.


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## broadonrod (Feb 26, 2010)

nate56 said:


> That pic you had showing that 8-1/2 doesn't look his age ...might be of head on pic you have but I would've lost a bet it being that old... Help me out on this one..


 Nate here are a couple of pics of this old buck. You can see how his body looks small and really hard to judge. This buck at 6 -7 years old would have been around 220-230 on the hoof. With out watching him he would have been tough one to age. I'm looking for some old pics now. from past years. In these pics he has lost prob 50 lbs do to his age.


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## broadonrod (Feb 26, 2010)

Here he is again the year I took him at 9.5 years old


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## WestEnd1 (Jul 26, 2012)

^^^Pretty sure the average hunter would go nuts if they went to the stand and saw those bucks shortly after daylight came. Very nice selection Ahab


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## broadonrod (Feb 26, 2010)

Many of the bucks on the ranch fail letting them get this old. Not all of them turn out how we hope. Ill post some pics up of some bucks that take the dive at 9-12 years old also. We have some pretty good examples of these bucks. What happens here is the deer are really nice but not quite what we are looking for in a trophy( borderline) and just get really old and never POP. We have one this year that has been 13-19 points over the last 7 years and fell to an 8 point this year with a split brow. We have seen another that has been a 15 point with 40" of mass in the past and fell to a 10 point and shriveled up. Another was a 21" 165 11 point fell to a 125" 9 point this year.. On the other hand leaving the numbers of old bucks we do. There has been 3 bucks seen this season already with drop tines that never had them before, all of these bucks are very old... I saw a 16 point last week that has been an 11-12 point 140-155 range over the last 6-7 years. This year we figure him 10-11 years old and typical 6X6 split brows an in-between tine and a really cool 3-4" kicker. Just guessing 170ish. Its amazing and a lot of fun watching what some of the bucks do with extreme age. Ill try and post up a couple when I get time that really disappointed us also.


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## finz (Aug 18, 2010)

AWESOME AWESOME Info. Thanks for sharing!!!!!


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## nate56 (Dec 11, 2010)

Yeahu can really tell on those pics ..that one pic where you have 8-1/2 looking right at you with that 5-1/2 is tough ...that's why its really hard to tell from pic to pic...at least for me...I've got some same pics as you and man those old deer are tough to age if you hadn't seen them before..our body's with the nutrients and everything else puts a spin in aging for some ...


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## broadonrod (Feb 26, 2010)

Here is one from last year. This buck has been a camp mascot for along time. Ill post a picture of him this year when I get back to my laptop.. This year he= FAIL .. At 7 years old he had 15 points and was high 170-180" letting this buck go was a tough call back then. In this picture we figure the buck is 9-10 years old.. Ill post this years up soon. Also from 3-5 years old this buck was a 9 point.


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## DCAVA (Aug 5, 2013)

Massive bucks u guys got there, I'll be lucky to see a shooter buck; December is when it gets hot and heavy at our lease in Zapata co.


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## broadonrod (Feb 26, 2010)

Look what I found


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## Never easy (Mar 20, 2006)

I am lucky to see a buck, a legal one would get me pretty excited to say the least. Where I hunt it is mainly does and ugly spikes for the normal. Your cull bucks would be monsters to what I am used to seeing! To some of us a managment buck like what you have would be a buck of a lifetime. For a kid to have this chance is just AWESOME! being as what you are doing in the other thread for the kids.


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## broadonrod (Feb 26, 2010)

Never easy said:


> I am lucky to see a buck, a legal one would get me pretty excited to say the least. Where I hunt it is mainly does and ugly spikes for the normal. Your cull bucks would be monsters to what I am used to seeing! To some of us a managment buck like what you have would be a buck of a lifetime. For a kid to have this chance is just AWESOME!


 I never thought I would be lucky enough to see low fence deer like these my self. Its taken a lot of patience and time. It would be hard to do with out so much country at that. Several upper comers don't make it each year even with the large acreage. Its fun learning and trying things on this ranch without getting to stressed out about it.. At first it was all about how big a deer we could find and now its about trying to make a lot of big ones and just enjoying the hunt.. Having the right ranch owners and the right hunters is number one. Then having the genetics, patience and feed is number 2 IMHO. Some places like to manage their ranches on low number levels and doing well at it, we just like to try to let the deer manage them selves as much as possible. After all we are there to see deer and have fun. Our group all agrees we love seeing lots of bucks and not just a few per hunt. That's one reason we quit flying the ranch and use very few trail cams. Keeps the excitement in the hunt. Most trail cams are just to find the old management bucks for the kiddoes more than anything. The people we have on the ranch hunting it now enjoy the hunt just as much as the kill. Its sure made it fun the last 2-3 years.. The feed gets expensive but we try and offer a hunt per feed location and cover most of that, its just another way the deer take care of them selves. About 75% of our package hunts now are youth hunts. That's even made it more fun.


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## broadonrod (Feb 26, 2010)

Here is a live pic of one of our camp bucks.. This buck is super old.. FAIL ... It's great to see he lived so long to spread his mass around the ranch.. Knowing this buck was a really great deer a few years ago has given him a free ride the past few years.. Pretty cool just to see suck an incredible buck for so many years in a row.at just sent me this pic a few minutes ago ... First pic last year second pic live..


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