# Micro Guides



## wading_fool

I know this has probably been beaten to death, and I have read the Volumes at Rodbuilder.org, but I have a couple questions on them. I notice that most people are building with the Micros in a spiral wrap configuration, is this do to their low frame height and the spiral keeps the line off the blank under load? 

I am looking at building my next rod with the micros but I want to build them on top, will that work or do they need to be spiral?

Next question concerns tip tops, is everyone splitting the tubes or just going with a conventional tip top like a ALPS "Lite" or something else?

How are the micros holding up in the saltwater? 

Probably have more questions but thats a starter at this point lol


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## wingshooter

Not sure if this will help you out or not, but the last two rods I have built for my use I have used the 4.5's. I have built the rods with guides on top and the alps lite tips. The blanks are Rainshadow RX 8 S823. I placed the guides as per the Batson placement chart list. I have not had and line contact with the blank as of yet and have put both rods through the paces down in Baffin. So far the guides are holding up great with the saltwater. I do rinse with fresh water after each use. Like I said not sure if this really answers your question since I used 4.5's.


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## wading_fool

Did you use all 4.5's? That was my other question I forgot.....When using the Micro's, do you use them from top to bottom, or do you start with normal size guides and work your way to the micro's? I fish Braid but do not use a leader so knot passing isn't a issue for me........


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## Terrynj

The basic problem is the height of the guide more than the size of the ring. Once you get below 5's, there just isn't much height and you would really have to keep the guides closer to "try" and keep the line off the blank. It will still rub and to me it just creates an uneccesary problem. Spirals cast wonderfully and makes the rod more stable...I don't know why you wouldn't spiral other than the mental stigma of "it doesn't look right". I've got a 6'6" 3 oz rod with 9 + 1 going down to 3.5's that'll cast a 3/4 oz popping cork close to 200 ft with a Curado E7. There is almost no weight on the blank because the guides are so small making very sensitive and it doesn't deaden the blanks recovery rate as much.
Most of us are still splitting the tubes, but there are more tip tops coming out that will give you a 4 ring with tubes up to a 5.5 which should fit most blanks they would be going on. Batson has some and we're bringing in the American Tackle micros which has chrome and the bigger tubed tip tops. The tip tops get the most abuse, so I like having a good one that is robust enough to handle a big red ripping out a bunch of braid.


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## Terrynj

Missed your last post...I use an 8 or a 10 as the stripper and a 4-5 for the first 180....then micros ther est of the way. I have found there is no real need to funnel the line down or creat cones. That seems to be just something that seems right in our heads, but makes no real practical difference. I still will make a cone on spinning setups until the path intersects the blank...i.e. look from behind at your spinning ro and you will see the reel is angled up towards the blank. If you draw a straight line from your reel to the intersection, you would need to use guides big anough and tall enough to stay within that path. Usually a 30, then a 16, then a 12 and a 10...from there you could even go to micros.
On casting, I used to use the conventional guide setup, then just rotate them, but I have been starting out conventional, but after I get on the bottom of the rod, I switch to a spinning layout. There is no reason to keep the guides so close together when the guides are underneath because you aren't trying to keep the line off the blank like when the guides are on top....
The braid is wonderful, but if you do tie a leader, you would have to go to 4's or 4.5's. I use a uniknot, then I put Superglue on it...after it's dry...I can shave it down to cut down and catches...If you don't use a knot....you can go down to 1's (which I haven't tried....3's are hard enought ot tie! lol)


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## SaltwaterAg

The one thing I have noticed is that the tip tops can bend pretty easily. The ones I've mainly used are the Batson tops from Swampland. Lacking support is the main reason for this. Haven't had one break yet, but have had to bend them back a few times. I am going to try and do the split tube on my next one to see how that works. I've only built in the spiral wrap so far on the micros but I'm about to put them on a 6'6" jig rod and I'm going to do them on top.


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## Mg50

Look at my post under KINGS i think mine have been put to the test. I used fugi micros. I am happy with my micros and they are set on top down to 3.5 I did however do a split tip top and put a full wrap over it. I stepped my size's down only one double foot. I havent had any problems as of yet other than re tying leaders a lot due to the 3.5 wont pass a blood not. I only fish in saltwater but i due clean my rod just like i would a gun after a trip. here are some base line measurements Steve Gardner gave me. This is pretty close to my final youll proabaly move a little here and there but I have not noticed any binding on the blank.

try these, which would be my starting point before testing
Go out and test again using this set up and go with which ever one works better for you.

Tip
7mm
8mm
9mm
10mm
11mm
13mm
15mm
17mm
19mm
23 mm (also move to 23.5 then 24 and cast a few times stay with which ever works better for you)

What I have found, is that having narrower spacing towards the tips improves casting distance most of the time, especially on a conventional set up.


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## Terrynj

Sorry, forgot the guide spacing charts....They are in metric.....


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## wingshooter

On my rods I start with a #8, #6 ,then 4.5's the rest of the way. I fish with braid also, but do use about 5-6' of flor leader. The knot passes thorugh the 4.5's with no problem. i use 30# braid and 25-30# leader with the uni-uni knot.

Terry, I have built a few spirals for other people and they love them. I guess for me it is just the mental thing I need to get over one day and try it. Most likely once I do I will kick my self for not doing it long ago.


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## wading_fool

Its the mental thing for me as well on the spirals.....Thanks everyone for the answers and information, guess when I get this Rogue blank in finally I will have to Micro it.


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## Steve Gardner

I only build bass rods thing might be a little different if using larger type salt water reels

Bait casters:
Unless I'm building for a client that is going to be using one of the round type bait casters instead of the lower profile palming style, I normally start with 5mm-4,5mm-4mm-3mm's to the tip
On a flipping stick I will also start with a larger stripper guide to allow clearance between the line and blank fro finger space when grabbing the line to flip.
On lighter application rods I've used the micro tips. But on anything that is subject to abuse (flipping, pitching, spinner bait, C-rigs rods, ECT.) I stay with 6mm type tips.
The reason is that most repairs I do a year are on this size tip any way from guys abusing their rods. So I don't think is smart to give them a tip with less material in it allowing it to be easier o brake
Personally I build spiral rods; because I'm convinced they perform better, but know several builders that build micro's conventional with any problems. It might take an extra guide or so but when they weigh as little as Micro's do I don't think you will ever notice the difference

Spinning rods:
Depending on the rod/reel set up I normally start with a 25 or 20mm. But have also built some starting with 12mm strippers where I am using light line of braided lines.


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## Terrynj

Great input Steve...thanks for posting!


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