# DPS working the ICW



## Crowhater (Jul 21, 2014)

What is with this new trend? What is their legal scope on the water? If your driving down the road and you break no laws they can't stop you for no reason and check your truck but that's what they are doing to boaters on the ICW in POC. 

I met a member while waiting to load my boat Saturday night on the ICW and did not catch his name, sorry. We where trying to get back in time to ear before everything closed.


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## POC Fishin' Gal (Nov 20, 2009)

well, arisen from the depths...........welcome back! Can't answer your question, sorry.Maybe they knew you were coming in from the "secret" place and just needed to check your catch.

And yes, driving down the road or the ICW they CAN stop you for whatever reason they think is probable cause. I hope you were nice.

Hopefully some LEO's. will post the real explanation


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## teeroy (Oct 1, 2009)

Any peace officer enforcing those water safety laws can stop boats to check on life jackets, etc.


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## bigfishtx (Jul 17, 2007)

teeroy said:


> Any peace officer enforcing those water safety laws can stop boats to check on life jackets, etc.


Glad they are out hassling boaters when there is so much bad stuff going on. What a joke.


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## Sgrem (Oct 5, 2005)

Unless they can see every single on the water requirement (impossible) they can stop you to check. Its a good thing.


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## teeroy (Oct 1, 2009)

bigfishtx said:


> Glad they are out hassling boaters when there is so much bad stuff going on. What a joke.


Where's the bad stuff going on at? I'm sure they'd like to know.

I can't imagine DPS working around POC unless they had some knowledge of some serious loot coming down the ICW. The criminals know that boats are not safe since LE and the coast guard will board and search it.


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## donf (Aug 8, 2005)

Guys, reports are required every day on every LEO agency, every PD dept, SO, Constable , ect... About " what did you do today" . It is what it is. Even if they are required to patrol an area that has no criminal activity. Then they are able to report that the resources they deployed stopped or scared off any criminal activity.


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## Crowhater (Jul 21, 2014)

I did nothing wrong, I did not get in any trouble. Back in Febuary I had my right wrist totally rebuild after walking around for a year with it broke. That TFCC injury finally blew apart and I could not do anything with my right hand including fishing. This has been a very difficult recovery, I have almost all my movement back but it hurts all the time so I'm trying to be a good boy.


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## SD Hawkins (Jan 2, 2008)

Welcome back Crowhater, man I miss your commentary and theres been some I would have loved to hear your wisdom on!!

Wrist sucks, broke both of mine 2x skateboarding, they are crooked as hell ,along with my left forearm and surgically repaired rotator cuff. I lived with having to pop it back in when it slipped out like Mel Gibson in Lethal Weapon for over 10 years! Doc told me right after I went under he could move it in/out of socket easily with his hand.

Nice and yellow too, that color will be back in week or two. Physical therapy, thats gonna get you, but its worth the 3 weeks they spend getting you moving it with full radius again.


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## Rockfish2 (Sep 1, 2017)

POC Fishin' Gal said:


> well, arisen from the depths...........welcome back! Can't answer your question, sorry.Maybe they knew you were coming in from the "secret" place and just needed to check your catch.
> 
> And yes, driving down the road or the ICW they CAN stop you for whatever reason they think is probable cause. I hope you were nice.
> 
> Hopefully some LEO's. will post the real explanation


Actually on the road they only need whatâ€™s called â€œreasonable suspicionâ€ that a crime or traffic violation has been committed to stop you. If you believe they didnâ€™t have that you can challenge them in court, but youâ€™ll probably lose because itâ€™s a fairly low standard. Regardless, itâ€™s not just whatever they think it is.

Regarding the ICW around POC, they may have some intel something illegal is going on in that area - if so, they hopefully wouldnâ€™t post that online.


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## pocjetty (Sep 12, 2014)

sgrem said:


> Unless they can see every single on the water requirement (impossible) they can stop you to check. Its a good thing.


You're right, of course. They have that authority. It's a dangerous precedent - instant, infinite probable cause. It's really not any different than pulling you over in your car to see if the horn works. Or pulling you over for no other reason than to see if you're carrying your insurance card, since they can't see it from the outside of the car. I'm not in favor of bad guys getting by with things, but I'm also no fan of allowing law enforcement to go prospecting.

I'm not going to argue with people about it, but I think it's a bad practice. We open the door with "special cases", and then bad things line up to get through.


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## Crowhater (Jul 21, 2014)

I agree! I have nothing against LEO but I also don't want my rights violated. Detaining me, impeding my progress without just cause is total BS. If they pull me over I can refuse to let them search my vehicle but not my boat?? Now combine this kind of authority with a robocop ( I can do what I want, I have a badge ) guy and you have the makings of a problem. You already have the coast guard and the Game Warden working that area. My personal thoughts on this are that they have to justify all those high dollar trip and quad engine boats they bought with our tax dollars. Go by the coast guard station in POC and look at your tax money at work, DPS has 200,000 dollar boats lined up.

You're right, of course. They have that authority. It's a dangerous precedent - instant, infinite probable cause. It's really not any different than pulling you over in your car to see if the horn works. Or pulling you over for no other reason than to see if you're carrying your insurance card, since they can't see it from the outside of the car. I'm not in favor of bad guys getting by with things, but I'm also no fan of allowing law enforcement to go prospecting.

I'm not going to argue with people about it, but I think it's a bad practice. We open the door with "special cases", and then bad things line up to get through.[/QUOTE]


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## essayons75 (May 15, 2006)

Crowhater said:


> I agree! I have nothing against LEO but I also don't want my rights violated. Detaining me, impeding my progress without just cause is total BS. If they pull me over I can refuse to let them search my vehicle but not my boat?? Now combine this kind of authority with a robocop ( I can do what I want, I have a badge ) guy and you have the makings of a problem. You already have the coast guard and the Game Warden working that area. My personal thoughts on this are that they have to justify all those high dollar trip and quad engine boats they bought with our tax dollars. Go by the coast guard station in POC and look at your tax money at work, DPS has 200,000 dollar boats lined up.
> 
> You're right, of course. They have that authority. It's a dangerous precedent - instant, infinite probable cause. It's really not any different than pulling you over in your car to see if the horn works. Or pulling you over for no other reason than to see if you're carrying your insurance card, since they can't see it from the outside of the car. I'm not in favor of bad guys getting by with things, but I'm also no fan of allowing law enforcement to go prospecting.
> 
> I'm not going to argue with people about it, but I think it's a bad practice. We open the door with "special cases", and then bad things line up to get through.


[/QUOTE]

Agreed! Welcome back!


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## fishin shallow (Jul 31, 2005)

Welcome back


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## DA REEL DADDY (Jun 7, 2005)

I got stopped in my boat twice on the same day by the same LEO. I told him that he had already checked me earlier. He said, sorry he had been busy and didn't remember. He checked me again. No big deal.

I've been put in secondary at the airport a couple of times. Once, some guy in a suit was ripping the TSA officer for the inconvenience. I took off my shoes and did and answered whatever they wanted to know calmly and patiently. The TSA officer apologized for the inconvenience after hearing an ear full from the yuppie guy. I told him no problem and thanked him and told him I knew he was doing his job which made me air flight safer.

Yeah, and welcome back. Looking forward to hearing some of your funy stuff.


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## Empty Pockets CC (Feb 18, 2009)

Iâ€™m 100% fan of Law Enforcement Officers. 
Iâ€™m a big fan of the law. 
Iâ€™m a big fan of the Coast Guard and TPWD. 
Those DPS boats are an asinine waste of tax payer dollars including man hours, maintenance, and fuel. Ya, they may have been purchased with seized drug money. So what?! That doesnâ€™t make it right. Allocate those dollars and men somewhere more useful. We donâ€™t need boats like that with mounted machine guns on the bow to harass the local fisherman. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## DeepBlueGulf (Jan 18, 2005)

I thought when DPS got those boats it was so they could do border patrols on the river, protecting the Rio Grande and such. But in any case, most agencies with any vessels have to do a certain amount of training and hours on the water to keep quals current. We see them here in Corpus on occasion, but have never been stopped by them. Tom - DeepBlueGulf


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## hattenbw (Jul 17, 2006)

*be safe*

I have to set this up . When I was 12 years old my old man had 2 40 foot shrimp boats . I was his deck hand. we kept them on tri city beach road, the guy that owned the place had a bait camp in front of his house. those GW would come running down the hill with guns drawn becuse they thought we were illigal. My dad was the most honest legal giving person I have ever met. we never broke any fish and game laws ever!!!!
But I will say Those GW are there for good reason I respect them and I try to be like my dad!:fish:


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## rwl1948 (Jun 27, 2009)

I saw the DPS boat going under the JFK bridge on Park Road 22 heading to Port "A" from Corpus Christi about a Month ago.


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## bigdav160 (Aug 25, 2004)

I have LEO friend that spends a lot of time in boats. He told me they are doing DHS work.


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## TrailChaser (Nov 7, 2015)

I see those gunboats parked at the TPWD all the time. I just figured they'd rather work around POC where they're perfectly safe on the water. If they were working on the Rio Grande they would have to worry about being shot at by criminals. 

Reminds me of a story I once heard:
An older couple was getting ready to turn in for the night when the husband notices a light on in the shed.
As he's hollering at his wife to ask if she left it on, he sees movement out there. 
CALL THE POLICE! he yells to his wife.. "We've got some guys stealing our stuff!"
She calls and when she hangs up she just says "They'll be here in about an hour..?" "They said they're too busy for an immediate response." 

He grabs the phone and calls back. "Hello, I just wanted to call back to say there's no need to rush now. I just killed those two guys..." Hangs up the phone and sits down. 
About 3 minutes later the cops come blasting up the drive and almost run over the thieves.. After arresting them the sergeant says to the old man: "I thought you said on the phone that you killed those two guys??" Old man just replies..."I thought you said ya'll were busy."


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

bigdav160 said:


> I have LEO friend that spends a lot of time in boats. He told me they are doing DHS work.


 I didnâ€™t know recreational fishing boats were a real concern for the DHS.


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## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

I think for me, whether the stop bothered me or not would depend solely on the cop's attitude and demeanor.


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## Bassman5119 (Feb 26, 2008)

sgrem said:


> Unless they can see every single on the water requirement (impossible) they can stop you to check. Its a good thing.


With this logic, any cop could stop anyone with any amount of tinted windows to check for seat belts. Maybe they can, but just don't.


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## Bassman5119 (Feb 26, 2008)

Cool anchor tat on your nurse CH.

Me and my black lab Ranger got stopped by GW on lake Livingston out by Pine Island for the simple reason that people steal Jon boats in East Texas. She checked my Tx card and off she went. I guess it was justified and if my boat had been stolen, she might have gotten it back for me. 

Oh and make sure you have the actual card on you. Tx stickers were brand new, but they won't call the Tx number in and confirm via DL. Luckily I found it. 

Caught a boat load of white bass that day.


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## Csafisher (Nov 16, 2010)

I don't know about up in POC but near arroyo city I've seen several blacked out cigar boats hauling butt up the ICW in the dead of night while staying at a cabin. Also have seen a few planes flying low at night over the bay. Been a long time since I've seen a DPS or Homeland boat out there....


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

"I need to see your papers, papers please"


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## cva34 (Dec 22, 2008)

*Help arrived*

Im glad there out there .Working tryin to catch crooks /dope dealers /drunks/speeders/ illegal aliens/smugglers/and enforce boating laws/etc...Was not long ago there were posts about house breakins/stolen this and that /Crack head town and so on .Surely boats are a great way to Smuggle ...

When I read this I alway think of my friend ..He always complained about GW and LEO.. He and his wife (both in 70s ) were fishing E bay..late in eve ,boat won't start,bad weather Colder..They were not dressed for or had food etc..Lucky they had cell phone ( when they didn't work so good).and got help on way ..Dark, raining ,cold, wind ..Hungry,in open boat..GW pulls up beside them throws them a couple blankets and towed them to there truck 7 miles...

Now if he sees a GW in a donuts shop or resturant he buys there lunch...and never gripes again


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## Lexy1 (Jul 12, 2012)

TrailChaser said:


> I see those gunboats parked at the TPWD all the time. I just figured they'd rather work around POC where they're perfectly safe on the water. If they were working on the Rio Grande they would have to worry about being shot at by criminals.
> 
> Reminds me of a story I once heard:
> An older couple was getting ready to turn in for the night when the husband notices a light on in the shed.
> ...


Got to love this logic. LMAO!
Let's keep this in mind and try on the next emergency call.


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## mfnlonewolf (Aug 27, 2009)

*DPS*

My friend and I got stopped last week by DPS on IC at POC. We were the only boat on the water at that time, and they were doing H2O safety checks. They asked for all safety items, boat certification card fishing licenses and drivers licenses . Asked if we had fish, any weapons on board, and were we had been fishing. They were very polite , and respectful, thanked us for our cooperation. Total time about 5 minutes.:texasflag


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## O&G-HAND (Nov 27, 2017)

Also good to have your Boat Safety Inspection Sticker (Up To Date) placarded on your boat and also have your Boaters Ed Cert ready. Speaking of which...... I need to set up my free 2018 inspection. 

I've been told that the LIO normally won't mess with you too much if you can produce these, and there ain't beer cans everywhere.

:texasflag


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## Rack Ranch (May 25, 2004)

You guys ever stop to think about how many drugs are brought into Texas via watercraft?


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## SD Hawkins (Jan 2, 2008)

Lexy1 said:


> Got to love this logic. LMAO!
> Let's keep this in mind and try on the next emergency call.


I love this logic too, but think police would take it as a fake report if in the wrong mood.


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## Empty Pockets CC (Feb 18, 2009)

Rack Ranch said:


> You guys ever stop to think about how many drugs are brought into Texas via watercraft?


Plenty, but not via POC. The Rio Grande River and the area around Port Isabel/SPI/Brownsville would be my target area for boats with mounted machine guns on the front of them.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Timemachine (Nov 25, 2008)

My late dad and several uncles were DPS officers. If it is with the states borders, they have jurisdiction and even more important, AN OBLIGATION to enforce the law. The ICW is within that boundary and is a MAJOR corridor for shipping drugs.

Not sure what this question is but I don't have an issue with LEO's on the water, on the highway or anywhere else.


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## bigfishtx (Jul 17, 2007)

teeroy said:


> Where's the bad stuff going on at? I'm sure they'd like to know.
> 
> I can't imagine DPS working around POC unless they had some knowledge of some serious loot coming down the ICW. The criminals know that boats are not safe since LE and the coast guard will board and search it.


I hope that is the case, but, I know that the young man that captains one of those rigs has a family fish camp there. 
They need to get those rigs down south where the real bad stuff is going on.


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## ChuChu (Jan 23, 2010)

Texas DPS has a Tactical Marine Unit that has 6 interdiction boats.


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## ChuChu (Jan 23, 2010)

http://www.policemag.com/blog/vehic...dps-patrol-boats-armed-for-cartel-threat.aspx


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## fishinguy (Aug 5, 2004)

Crowhater said:


> I did nothing wrong, I did not get in any trouble. Back in Febuary I had my right wrist totally rebuild after walking around for a year with it broke. That TFCC injury finally blew apart and I could not do anything with my right hand including fishing. This has been a very difficult recovery, I have almost all my movement back but it hurts all the time so I'm trying to be a good boy.


Dang had to switch hands, that must be rough.


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## Crowhater (Jul 21, 2014)

I don't dislike LEO I just don't want them stepping on my rights and no where in the constitution does it say they have the right to detain me for no reason and question me. You are in no way obligated to answer their questions. Running up on tax paying citizens at night in Gunboats is uncalled for.


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## O&G-HAND (Nov 27, 2017)

Crowhater said:


> Running up on tax paying citizens at night in Gunboats is uncalled for.


That's classified as training missions.


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## teeroy (Oct 1, 2009)

Crowhater said:


> I don't dislike LEO I just don't want them stepping on my rights and no where in the constitution does it say they have the right to detain me for no reason and question me. You are in no way obligated to answer their questions. Running up on tax paying citizens at night in Gunboats is uncalled for.


But stacks of case law has made it real clear as to what is allowable when it comes to law enforcement and boats.

So as soon as they see you're a law abiding tax payer you should be good to go, right? Do you carry your W2s with you to show them you're a contributor to society? Help me out.

I spent a lot of time on the water and out in the "woods" hunting. I rarely see a warden. I've been stopped in my boat less than 5 times and I"m 32. I get checked maybe twice a year by game wardens. And I drive a rig that gets profiled. It's really not a big deal. It's not like we're all getting a cavity search every time we fish or hunt and it's usually over in a few minutes when we do get stopped.


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## Rubberback (Sep 9, 2008)

I've always complied with Game Wardens and police officers. Yes sir No sir and have even been let go when I was in the wrong. 
They hopefully are just trying to do their job and protect us. I hope.


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## EIGHTSKATE (Feb 19, 2016)

Did your eye go to twitching? Good to here from you.


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## DA REEL DADDY (Jun 7, 2005)

teeroy said:


> But stacks of case law has made it real clear as to what is allowable when it comes to law enforcement and boats.
> 
> So as soon as they see you're a law abiding tax payer you should be good to go, right? Do you carry your W2s with you to show them you're a contributor to society? Help me out.
> 
> I spent a lot of time on the water and out in the "woods" hunting. I rarely see a warden. I've been stopped in my boat less than 5 times and I"m 32. I get checked maybe twice a year by game wardens. And I drive a rig that gets profiled. It's really not a big deal. It's not like we're all getting a cavity search every time we fish or hunt and it's usually over in a few minutes when we do get stopped.


I think under the Texas Water Safety Act, Game Wardens and any other LEOs certified as marine officers can stop you in your boat to do a safety inspection.


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## MarkU (Jun 3, 2013)

teeroy said:


> It's not like we're all getting a cavity search every time


What? That's the best part! :brew2:

Free dental exams!


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## WoundedMinnow (Oct 11, 2011)

As long as he has trimmed fingernails!! Lol

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk


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## DA REEL DADDY (Jun 7, 2005)

MarkU said:


> What? That's the best part! :brew2:
> 
> Free dental exams!


Sir, put your hands on the Mercury and spread em.lol


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## Crowhater (Jul 21, 2014)

I have no problem with law enforcement I am just getting old I guess. I remember going to POC to get away and not having to go through airport security every time you hit the boat ramp. All of my stuff is legit, I carry all the correct paperwork including my suppressor paperwork, I just wish they would go away.


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## Rubberback (Sep 9, 2008)

Crowhater said:


> I have no problem with law enforcement I am just getting old I guess. I remember going to POC to get away and not having to go through airport security every time you hit the boat ramp. All of my stuff is legit, I carry all the correct paperwork including my suppressor paperwork, I just wish they would go away.


I've seen some video's of how some people treat our law officers and game wardens after being stopped and its crazy the way people treat them.


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## HiggsBoson (Jul 25, 2014)

Empty Pockets CC said:


> Plenty, but not via POC. The Rio Grande River and the area around Port Isabel/SPI/Brownsville would be my target area for boats with mounted machine guns on the front of them.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Think of drug interdiction like a tube of toothpaste. Squeeze it in one area and it just oozes around to another area. By water it isn't that hard to bypass the immediate boarder and offload elsewhere. Especially if the immediate border area is being heavily patrolled. Also the 'rules' for LEO stops on the water are significantly different from automobiles. A lot of that stems from sheer numbers of stops of auto's and the court challenges to those stops that have established fairly clear guidelines on what is and isn't allowed. For stops on the water those rules are relaxed significantly and honestly haven't been challenged as much. The courts see boats differently and allow LEO much more latitude. Also LEO's are well trained. I guarantee they start the boarding with something like 'mind if we come aboard' or something similar. Once you say 'yes' it is considered a consensual boarding and that you have waived your constitutional rights, to a degree. You can say no, but then they will still board you because they do have the authority to do so. It is akin to a police officer stopping you for speeding and asking " Do you know how fast you were going?" The whole point of the question is to get you on record acknowledging that you were speeding, thus waiving any defense to the charge if you try to fight it in court.


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## MarkU (Jun 3, 2013)

The Dentist normally gives you a piece of candy, if you do well during your visit. A post last week stated Game Wardens give you free; Fish, Deer, & Ducks. 

Who do you want searching for cavities?


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## boom! (Jul 10, 2004)

HiggsBoson said:


> Think of drug interdiction like a tube of toothpaste. Squeeze it in one area and it just oozes around to another area. By water it isn't that hard to bypass the immediate boarder and offload elsewhere. Especially if the immediate border area is being heavily patrolled. Also the 'rules' for LEO stops on the water are significantly different from automobiles. A lot of that stems from sheer numbers of stops of auto's and the court challenges to those stops that have established fairly clear guidelines on what is and isn't allowed. For stops on the water those rules are relaxed significantly and honestly haven't been challenged as much. The courts see boats differently and allow LEO much more latitude. Also LEO's are well trained. I guarantee they start the boarding with something like 'mind if we come aboard' or something similar. Once you say 'yes' it is considered a consensual boarding and that you have waived your constitutional rights, to a degree. You can say no, but then they will still board you because they do have the authority to do so. It is akin to a police officer stopping you for speeding and asking " Do you know how fast you were going?" The whole point of the question is to get you on record acknowledging that you were speeding, thus waiving any defense to the charge if you try to fight it in court.


So, how much drugs have been confiscated by these 6 DPS boats? It seems to me that if we built a **** wall and actually went after illegals that we might have more effect than jacking with sportfishers and bay boats.


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## DA REEL DADDY (Jun 7, 2005)

MarkU said:


> The Dentist normally gives you a piece of candy, if you do well during your visit. A post last week stated Game Wardens give you free; Fish, Deer, & Ducks.
> 
> Who do you want searching for cavities?


I'll take the deer and fish. I didn't eat duck.


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## Timemachine (Nov 25, 2008)

Saw a special on TV two weeks ago. The amount of drugs being brought in by boat on the lower California coast has leaped 300% in the last 6 months. 

The problem is "we the people"!!!! We are 6% of the worlds population and we consume almost 80% of worlds production of drugs.


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## HiggsBoson (Jul 25, 2014)

boom! said:


> So, how much drugs have been confiscated by these 6 DPS boats? It seems to me that if we built a **** wall and actually went after illegals that we might have more effect than jacking with sportfishers and bay boats.


I have no idea. Just posting what I know about marine boardings and sneaky LEO tricks. Personally I think we should decriminalize most drugs and tax the snot out of them.


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## Fishin' Soldier (Dec 25, 2007)

MarkU said:


> The Dentist normally gives you a piece of candy, if you do well during your visit. A post last week stated Game Wardens give you free; Fish, Deer, & Ducks.
> 
> Who do you want searching for cavities?


My dentist gives me a toothbrush and an appointment for my next cleaning. No candy! What a croc!:headknock


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## Timemachine (Nov 25, 2008)

Fishin' Soldier said:


> My dentist gives me a toothbrush and an appointment for my next cleaning. No candy! What a croc!:headknock


Your dentist is selfish!hwell:


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## Rubberback (Sep 9, 2008)

I get bubble gum after each haircut. Double bubble!


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## cva34 (Dec 22, 2008)

Crowhater said:


> I don't dislike LEO I just don't want them stepping on my rights and no where in the constitution does it say they have the right to detain me for no reason and question me. You are in no way obligated to answer their questions. Running up on tax paying citizens at night in Gunboats is uncalled for.


How they supposed to know You a nice taxpaying citizen tell they talk to you>>


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## fishshallow (Feb 2, 2006)

I agree that those boats are a huge waste of tax money and donâ€™t see a reason they need to be out there bothering boaters. They could do a lot of good in a place where they are needed. 
That was me you ran into in the morning ntercoastal Saturday night crow hater. Good to run a not a fellow 2cooler. My name is Robert by the way.


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## bigfishtx (Jul 17, 2007)

Dps does not need 350,000$ go fast rigs to patrol the Icw. Most of them canâ€™t run a jon boat. Huge waste of taxpayer dollars. 

Show me a drugs bust they have made in the past 5 yrs running these Miami Vice boats? Hey if they are making busts then keep on.


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## teeroy (Oct 1, 2009)

fishshallow said:


> I agree that those boats are a huge waste of tax money and donâ€™t see a reason they need to be out there bothering boaters. They could do a lot of good in a place where they are needed.
> That was me you ran into in the morning ntercoastal Saturday night crow hater. Good to run a not a fellow 2cooler. My name is Robert by the way.


Who should they be bothering? Where are the people located that they should be bothering? Or should they be bothering anyone? Do we even need police? Do we even need laws? What is considered bothering? Is a BWI bothering someone? What about a huge load of drugs? Is that worth bothering? And how do you find that stuff if you aren't "bothering" people? Any new methods you know of to find the "bad" guys? I have some many questions. Help me out here man. I'm sure DPS would be glad to hear form you if you know any of these secrets.


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## Empty Pockets CC (Feb 18, 2009)

.


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

How did we ever make it through the last 150 years without the DPS patrolling our inland waterways? Personally I feel so much safer knowing they are out there doing their jobs.

I am sure it will be darn near impossible to get illegal drugs now.


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## pocjetty (Sep 12, 2014)

Empty Pockets CC said:


> Plenty, but not via POC. The Rio Grande River and the area around Port Isabel/SPI/Brownsville would be my target area for boats with mounted machine guns on the front of them.


LOL... Back in the early 80's I dated a girl whose dad was a shrimper, and lived in Seadrift. He always had a LOT of toys, and cash to buy them with. I was young and stupid, so I was really impressed with how much money he was able to make catching shrimp. After a few comments, and overhearing parts of a few conversations, I began to suspect that shellfish weren't his primary source of revenue. I don't _think_ that they are running contraband into POC via go-fast boats like in Florida. And I wouldn't imagine that they are getting _huge_ amounts of drugs in through that corridor, relatively speaking. But I don't have much doubt that it's still being brought in through that area.

It's got to be frustrating being a LEO, and having to deal with things like warrants and probable cause. It makes stopping criminals a lot more work, and lets the bad guys get by with a lot. But history says that doing without those things has some pretty big drawbacks, too.

I never questioned whether they have authority to stop you for no reason while on the water. What I believe is that giving that kind of authority is more than a slippery slope. It's a recipe for abuses and loss of liberties. The part that hasn't been mentioned is that we now have drones, and blimps, and satellites that weren't widely available in the past. If there is really a large-scale problem with drug inflow through Port O'Connor (big enough to justify $350K go-fast boats pulling people over at random), then that amount of activity would give a lot of clues through traffic patterns visible from above. You can't convince me that the only way to handle a problem that big is through gunboats pulling over random fishermen. It's corner-cutting, and it's going to take us places we don't want to be. And I have numerous LEO friends who feel the same way. One in particular is a State Trooper who will burn your ears if you start this conversation around him.


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## wbay2crowded (Jul 13, 2007)

bigdav160 said:


> I have LEO friend that spends a lot of time in boats. He told me they are doing DHS work.


Guess I better ditch that Yasser Arafat buff I've been wearing.


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## TrailChaser (Nov 7, 2015)

teeroy said:


> Who should they be bothering? Where are the people located that they should be bothering? Or should they be bothering anyone? Do we even need police? Do we even need laws? What is considered bothering? Is a BWI bothering someone? What about a huge load of drugs? Is that worth bothering? And how do you find that stuff if you aren't "bothering" people? Any new methods you know of to find the "bad" guys? I have some many questions. Help me out here man. I'm sure DPS would be glad to hear form you if you know any of these secrets.


I for one am tired of all the drug dealers on the water bothering me while I'm fishing. It's always the same **** every time I'm out in POC. Some days I'll have a dozen drug dealers line up single file to offer crack, heroin, crystal meth, then the pharma boat pulls up with all the illegal prescription pain killers. I say we need DPS, ATF, DHS, FBI, CIA and maybe even the secret service out there protecting us so we can catch a few fish and be "safe" from imaginary criminals. 
The private prison system loves this "War on Poor/Middle Class American Citizens"(er, war on drugs) I heard they made a nice $3.3billion profit last year alone. They take otherwise law abiding/working taxpaying citizens and lock them up for while on drug charges, and when they get out _they're 100% rehabilitated and ready for a high paying job_ to really start contributing to society.(that's sarcasm) 
In the eyes of the law, you can be one of three things in this country. Rich, Police, or Criminal.

When I was a kid we were told to find a police officer if we ever need help. Now most people tell their children to avoid interacting with police for their own safety. Most schools have police walking the halls like prison guards these days. My son and a lot of other students get pulled out of class about once a month because some improperly trained dog "hit" on his car. They always find the same thing after the extensive search...Nothing. They are sure to treat him like a criminal until they have to admit defeat and send him back to class. This is a straight A student.. He just got accepted to Texas A&M and made a 31 on his ACT.


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## boom! (Jul 10, 2004)

Build the God **** wall. Not near as much fun as harassing citizens in a go fast boat now is it?


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## glennkoks (Jun 24, 2009)

Do we need a boat like this to catch these guys?

I guess there is a reason why were almost broke


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

Iâ€™m sure we need a boat like that to catch guys like this. No wonder weâ€™re 20 trillion in debt. Iâ€™m not worried about it. Our kids and grandkids can pay for that boat.


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## Sgrem (Oct 5, 2005)

Do any of yall complain about the gravel trucks used for when the bridges ice once every 5 -8 -10 years?

How about that awesome rear steer ladder fire truck you only see in a parade?

Hear that?? Thats a fighter jet....followed by a few blackhawk helicopters.....

Ever see the giant sewer line cleaning truck that comes out once every few years.

All of the above are way more expensive tax dollars than those go fast boats. And nobody sees them or thinks about them. But everyone is sure glad they are there....

All of the above makes me proud to see and proud to be an American. They have none of the above in other countries.

Im proud to see them. Those boats have been in use for what almost five or ten years now? No place like Texas.... Everythings bigger in Texas right? 

If they had a couple of Bay Masters powered by Force i guess yall would support. I bet the presence alone and show of force alone has saved millions in all the battles they DIDNT have cuz the bad guys know they wouldnt stand a chance so they go elsewhere.

Is it over the top? Yes.
Is it needed? Yes
Is it a nuisance to be stopped? For me not at all....i wish i could share a beer with every one of those guys and share stories. I bet all they want to hear is hunting and fishing stories. Those dudes are just like you and I. And they have a nasty nasty job to do so you and i can just wade that awesome flat without worry. They dont get up dreaming of harrassing the hated tower boats and taboo air boats. They just do their job. Very well with the best equipment they would ever need to never lose. This is Texas. We do NOT halfarse our gear. And will not lose.

A little humility fellas. If you know anyone that has ever been helped by any of those expensive service vehicles above then they were worth it. 'Merica.

Sorry for yalls inconvenience. I would appreciate yall being courteous and patient and let them do what they need to do in the hopes we will never need to put their full training and capabilities to the test.

I dont have an answer to our debt and tax spending issues. Boats were built with seized money. Support their being used rather than parked till the next freeze.


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## MarkU (Jun 3, 2013)

I'm sure none of the ammo in the DPS boats have lead. Technically, couldn't a Game warden write them tickets for lead rounds, and center fire rifles over a public water way?


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## Timemachine (Nov 25, 2008)

Its Catchy said:


> Iâ€™m sure we need a boat like that to catch guys like this. No wonder weâ€™re 20 trillion in debt. Iâ€™m not worried about it. Our kids and grandkids can pay for that boat.


Sure feels good to see the two M60's on the bow are manned. Never know when the VC are going to jump out of the Mangroves

.....


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## Lexy1 (Jul 12, 2012)

Timemachine said:


> Sure feels good to see the two M60's on the bow are manned. Never know when the VC are going to jump out of the Mangroves
> 
> .....


That boat has 4. Two in the front and two in the rear.


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

Sgrem,

Frivolous wasting the wealth of future generations does not make me proud to be an American at all. And no that boat is not needed.

What would make me much prouder is if the money wasted on those boats went to paying off a small portion of our debt. At least it would serve as an example that we Texans do care about the future of our nation.

The biggest threat to our continued prosperity is not dope runners. Itâ€™s fiscal irresponsibility and leaving future generations with a credit card they canâ€™t pay


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## TrailChaser (Nov 7, 2015)

sgrem said:


> Do any of yall complain about the gravel trucks used for when the bridges ice once every 5 -8 -10 years?
> 
> How about that awesome rear steer ladder fire truck you only see in a parade?
> 
> ...


Wasn't there a thread on this forum a few months ago asking the public to help outfit our game wardens..? I'd love to hear your take on that. 
DPS needs those boats, but the game wardens have to beg the public for help buying the gear they need to do their job..?

Here's a link: http://2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/#/topics/2414586


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## SeaOx 230C (Aug 12, 2005)

The Government does not have the right to make YOU prove you are innocent.They are supposed to demonstrate that you are guilty. They are supposed to have probable cause to search you, question you detain you etc...

The sad thing is in the name of SAFETY/SECURITY/Drug War etc.. the People have allowed a great stretching of "Probable Cause" in certain situations. We have allowed simply being observed engaged in certain activities as "Probable Cause" (I know court cases have said it is OK. That is part of the problem here. Judges making LAW and the People saying "Thank You May I have Another".)

How come because I am in my boat a LEO, any LEO, can detain me for a "safety" check and make ME PROVE I am not violating a law?

And he can do this because I am in a boat or have a fishing device in hand and since people doing those things have violated laws I MIGHT be doing something illegal too. 

Let's apply that to other activities. Let's say you are sitting on the beach with your family soaking up some rays. You like to vape, so you get out your device and go at it. DPS officers blaze up on a tricked out UTV with mounted machine guns and AR's etc... and demands you to prove you don't have an illegal substance in that vape device. After all lots of people engaged in the activity of vaping are using illegal drugs in the device and it's all in the name of safety and security right?

Would you be OK with that? If not tell me what is the difference in being out on the boat with you family fishing and being at the beach taking a puff of your vaping device?

Of course the answer is there is no true difference. Both are activities that are known to involve illegal acts.

We have simply relinquished our rights when on the water or in the woods and I for one do not agree with it. I understand the reasoning behind the People having relinquished those rights, however I think a was a bad mistake to do so.

You will never be successful in establishing a crime free safe and secure society by infringing on the rights of the People. All you do is further erode the Freedoms that the Founders recognized as God given and replace those Freedoms with a bit of perceived safety/security provided by your friendly government. We were warned of this by the Founders and slowly but surely it is happening.


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## SeaOx 230C (Aug 12, 2005)

sgrem said:


> Do any of yall complain about the gravel trucks used for when the bridges ice once every 5 -8 -10 years?
> 
> How about that awesome rear steer ladder fire truck you only see in a parade?* These are not used by the Government to detain and infringe upon my Rights.*
> 
> ...


.


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## SeaOx 230C (Aug 12, 2005)

HiggsBoson said:


> Think of drug interdiction like a tube of toothpaste. Squeeze it in one area and it just oozes around to another area. By water it isn't that hard to bypass the immediate boarder and offload elsewhere. Especially if the immediate border area is being heavily patrolled. Also the 'rules' for LEO stops on the water are significantly different from automobiles. A lot of that stems from sheer numbers of stops of auto's and the court challenges to those stops that have established fairly clear guidelines on what is and isn't allowed. For stops on the water those rules are relaxed significantly and honestly haven't been challenged as much. The courts see boats differently and allow LEO much more latitude. Also LEO's are well trained. *I guarantee they start the boarding with something like 'mind if we come aboard' or something similar. Once you say 'yes' it is considered a consensual boarding and that you have waived your constitutional rights, to a degree. You can say no, but then they will still board you because they do have the authority to do so. It is akin to a police officer stopping you for speeding and asking " Do you know how fast you were going?" The whole point of the question is to get you on record acknowledging that you were speeding, thus waiving any defense to the charge if you try to fight it in court*.


So they use tricks of speech and the fact that most folks are very reluctant to tell a LEO "No" to trick you into relinquishing your rights?

Hmmm........That sounds like a most excellent way for LEO's to gain the Trust and Confidence of the People.

If true it hammers home my point.


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## Empty Pockets CC (Feb 18, 2009)

Its Catchy said:


> Sgrem,
> 
> Frivolous wasting the wealth of future generations does not make me proud to be an American at all. And no that boat is not needed.
> 
> ...


This ^ Perfectly stated.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Lexy1 (Jul 12, 2012)

x2 on what SeaOx_230C said.


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## bigfishtx (Jul 17, 2007)

TrailChaser said:


> Wasn't there a thread on this forum a few months ago asking the public to help outfit our game wardens..? I'd love to hear your take on that.
> DPS needs those boats, but the game wardens have to beg the public for help buying the gear they need to do their job..?
> 
> Here's a link: http://2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/#/topics/2414586


This....


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## Liv'n_the_dream (Jun 11, 2016)

SeaOx 230C said:


> The Government does not have the right to make YOU prove you are innocent.They are supposed to demonstrate that you are guilty. They are supposed to have probable cause to search you, question you detain you etc...
> 
> The sad thing is in the name of SAFETY/SECURITY/Drug War etc.. the People have allowed a great stretching of "Probable Cause" in certain situations. We have allowed simply being observed engaged in certain activities as "Probable Cause"


Agree 100%.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bigfishtx (Jul 17, 2007)

Most drugs are being moved in slow vessels right? Texas does not have Cubans running around in Scarabs at night. I ask, why in the hell does Texas DPS need these $400,000 go fast offshore rigs? 
You can't tell me a 25' Whaler with twin 200's won't do the job just fine.


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## teeroy (Oct 1, 2009)

Its Catchy said:


> Sgrem,
> 
> Frivolous wasting the wealth of future generations does not make me proud to be an American at all. And no that boat is not needed.
> 
> ...


I guess they could chip away .0001% of that $300,000,000 deficit if they sold them...



SeaOx 230C said:


> The Government does not have the right to make YOU prove you are innocent.They are supposed to demonstrate that you are guilty. They are supposed to have probable cause to search you, question you detain you etc...
> 
> The sad thing is in the name of SAFETY/SECURITY/Drug War etc.. the People have allowed a great stretching of "Probable Cause" in certain situations. We have allowed simply being observed engaged in certain activities as "Probable Cause" (I know court cases have said it is OK. That is part of the problem here. Judges making LAW and the People saying "Thank You May I have Another".)
> 
> ...


Do you agree with game laws? If not, then read no further. If you think we shouldn't able to catch as many fish, net as many shrimp and shoot as many ducks as we want, then read further.

How else is a game warden supposed to enforce game laws if an officer isn't allowed to search based on reasonable suspicion? Is a game warden supposed to follow you around and watch you, counting how many fish you put in the boat? Would you complain on the message boards if a game warden followed you around waiting on you to commit a game law violation? Is a game warden supposed to follow you from the launch and sit there (hopefully not flaring birds) and make sure y'all don't knock down over 4 redheads?

Help me out here. I'm anxious to hear how game laws are supposed to be enforced.

And your vaping scenario is weak. Vaping isn't regulated. You didn't have to buy a license agreeing to inspection when you bought a vape. Someone smoking weed is a far cry from engaging in the harvesting of protected species.


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## Bevo34 (Feb 10, 2005)

All of you that have a problem with Leo's doing their job. Get a life and please don't call them if heaven forbid you ever need them. I have a friend who is DPS and works the border and is shot at on a regular basis. Those boats are necessary there and they train officers in places where they are not likely to get shot at. Why are they in POC? Who knows? Can they be there? Yes. Don't like it, don't go.


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

Bevo34 said:


> All of you that have a problem with Leo's doing their job. Get a life and please don't call them if heaven forbid you ever need them. I have a friend who is DPS and works the border and is shot at on a regular basis. Those boats are necessary there and they train officers in places where they are not likely to get shot at. Why are they in POC? Who knows? Can they be there? Yes. Don't like it, don't go.


You can be pro LEO and still have common sense. The military, law enforcement, fire departments and all public servants have a responsibility to be good stewards of our tax dollars


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## SeaOx 230C (Aug 12, 2005)

teeroy said:


> I guess they could chip away .0001% of that $300,000,000 deficit if they sold them...
> 
> Do you agree with game laws? If not, then read no further. If you think we shouldn't able to catch as many fish, net as many shrimp and shoot as many ducks as we want, then read further.
> 
> ...


Don't twist my words by questioning my like or dislike of game laws. I will not answer as it has nothing to do with the topic.

I thought the topic is about DPS (add in any other LEO organization of you ask me. ) having what amounts to military equipped gun boats detaining fishermen, pleasure boaters etc..to do these "safety checks" purely because they "might" be breaking a law and is that okey dokey.

As for my scenario call it week but I'm pretty sure what some folks Might put in their vape device just Might be as you say regulated. You know what I'm asking answer or not. Take vaping out and put in any other activity that a person "Might" be doing something illegal if that floats your boat.


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## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

> I have no problem with law enforcement I am just getting old I guess. I remember going to POC to get away and not having to go through airport security every time you hit the boat ramp. All of my stuff is legit, I carry all the correct paperwork including my suppressor paperwork, I just wish they would go away.


You're not old enough to remember when there were no Game Wardens in POC doing boat safety checks.

I've been fishing there for over 50 years and they have always been there. The Coast Guard will happily board and do a safety check as well now as they did in the early 60's.

TH


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## gater (May 25, 2004)

*Boats*



bigfishtx said:


> Dps does not need 350,000$ go fast rigs to patrol the Icw. Most of them canâ€™t run a jon boat. Huge waste of taxpayer dollars.
> 
> Show me a drugs bust they have made in the past 5 yrs running these Miami Vice boats? Hey if they are making busts then keep on.


In the past 12 months the DPS Tatical Marine Unit has made 1,469 high crime arrest on the border. In total, not all from the Marine unit, the DPS has confiscated more than a half a billion dollars in illegal drugs and 14 million in cash, while arresting more than 19,000 people in the last 12 months alone.
This is just the DPS, does not include the Border Patrol or any other agencies.

I think those boats have more than paid for themselves!


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## Liv'n_the_dream (Jun 11, 2016)

gater said:


> I think those boats have more than paid for themselves!


Following your logic why don't we allow GPS ticketing on all toll roads. It would easily pay for itself. Think of the revenue we could generate. I mean, who cares about the constitution when there's money to be made.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Bevo34 (Feb 10, 2005)

Its Catchy said:


> You can be pro LEO and still have common sense. The military, law enforcement, fire departments and all public servants have a responsibility to be good stewards of our tax dollars


I would think it common sense to be able to protect yourself against people shooting at you. I would bet they face less opposition if they show superior fire power. Not talking about in the ICW, but they need to train somewhere and what better place to do it than a place where you might encounter some of the same people you deal with on the border. But I am sure that all of us who don't put our lives on the line daily know better what they need than we do.


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## gater (May 25, 2004)

*Boats*



Liv'n_the_dream said:


> Following your logic why don't we allow GPS ticketing on all toll roads. It would easily pay for itself. Think of the revenue we could generate. I mean, who cares about the constitution when there's money to be made.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I donâ€™t know what the issue is, people think the boats cost to much, that they are not needed. I posted the numbers that prove other wise, they actually could use another six....


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

You want to support LEO? Instead of buying these toys why not use the money to fund their pensions so they can actually enjoy their retirements without having to worry about the state reneging on them when they need it most?

According to the State Comptroller we are funding less than 76% of our long term obligations to these plans.

You don't have to be Nostradamus to see that is not sustainable.

But at least they will have fun driving super fast boats while we are squandering their retirement.

https://comptroller.texas.gov/economy/fiscal-notes/2017/special-edition/pensions.php


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## Bevo34 (Feb 10, 2005)

gater said:


> In the past 12 months the DPS Tatical Marine Unit has made 1,469 high crime arrest on the border. In total, not all from the Marine unit, the DPS has confiscated more than a half a billion dollars in illegal drugs and 14 million in cash, while arresting more than 19,000 people in the last 12 months alone.
> This is just the DPS, does not include the Border Patrol or any other agencies.
> 
> I think those boats have more than paid for themselves!


Agreed and then some.


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

gater said:


> I donâ€™t know what the issue is, people think the boats cost to much, that they are not needed. I posted the numbers that prove other wise, they actually could use another six....


If it was appropriate for the DPS to be a profit center for the government, Iâ€™m sure all that would do wonders toward getting them bonuses and such. Their job is law enforcement, not revenue collection. If profit is a goal here weâ€™ve got a serious problem.


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## gater (May 25, 2004)

*What!*



dwilliams35 said:


> If it was appropriate for the DPS to be a profit center for the government, Iâ€™m sure all that would do wonders toward getting them bonuses and such. Their job is law enforcement, not revenue collection. If profit is a goal here weâ€™ve got a serious problem.


What do you think they are doing, revenue is a byproduct of good law enforcement


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

gater said:


> What do you think they are doing, revenue is a byproduct of good law enforcement


If they were doing such a good job creating revenue I wonder why they just laid off 117 officers? I wonder if we could have used the money wasted on those boats to keep a few more boots on the ground?

How do you think those DPS officers that were laid off feel about those pricy toys? There is no substitute for boots on the ground.

http://www.mystatesman.com/news/sta...ers-light-budget-cuts/qLcJrPJxJOMcVdtdHfPfmJ/


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## boom! (Jul 10, 2004)

gater said:


> In the past 12 months the DPS Tatical Marine Unit has made 1,469 high crime arrest on the border. In total, not all from the Marine unit, the DPS has confiscated more than a half a billion dollars in illegal drugs and 14 million in cash, while arresting more than 19,000 people in the last 12 months alone.
> This is just the DPS, does not include the Border Patrol or any other agencies.
> 
> I think those boats have more than paid for themselves!


Link?


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## gater (May 25, 2004)

*DPS*



Its Catchy said:


> If they were doing such a good job creating revenue I wonder why they just laid off 117 officers? I wonder if we could have used the money wasted on those boats to keep a few more boots on the ground?
> 
> How do you think those DPS officers that were laid off feel about those pricy toys? There is no substitute for boots on the ground.
> 
> http://www.mystatesman.com/news/sta...ers-light-budget-cuts/qLcJrPJxJOMcVdtdHfPfmJ/


Maybe you should read the article.


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## gater (May 25, 2004)

*DPS*



boom! said:


> Link?


http://www.dps.texas.gov/PublicInformation/documents/borderSecBrief20170601.pdf


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

gater said:


> What do you think they are doing, revenue is a byproduct of good law enforcement


Big fan of civil forfeiture, are ya?


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## boom! (Jul 10, 2004)

gater said:


> http://www.dps.texas.gov/PublicInformation/documents/borderSecBrief20170601.pdf


I'd bet that the 7 shallow water boats are responsible for 99% of the drug interdiction success as to 1% on the go fast boats. But hey, if I could figure out how to get the taxpayers to get me one of them boats and mount some 50 cals on it I'd be all in too. They would be awesome for hunting pigs on the Colorado River at 90mph! :flag:


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

gater said:


> Maybe you should read the article.


Whats more important? Providing a funded retirement for our LEO's or providing them expensive toys with very little practical use?

Simply google "the State of Texas pension deficit" and get back with us. Buying these over powered money pits is the hight of fiscal irresponsibility. Something you would expect in say New York or Chicago not Texas.

You want to support our LEO's then start by funding their retirement 100% instead of passing the problem down to future generations.


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