# Game Wardens



## Shrimptail_Hunter (Dec 20, 2008)

I fished all day today fishing for the 20 inch flounder or larger for the flounder revolution and I was catching solid fish but I was not keeping anything I caught so I could fish all day with nothing to worry about with the game wardens. 

Well someone called the game warden on me and told them I had atleast 6 fish hidden in the car. So the game warden asked me to show him my fish and I told him I didn't have any that I was catch and release only and he told me to pop the trunk so I did, then all hell broke loose. He told me that someone called the hotline described me and the vehichle I was in and he was ready to put me in hand cuffs. 

I was shocked. He ripped my trunk carpet out to make sure I didn't have something there then he told me to unlock my car and he reached into the back seat and felt the cusion and he said it's wet. I was floored at this point. My blood was boiling. He turned to me looked me in the eyes and asked now do you have something to tell me, I told him absolutly not I don't have any fish. 

He then told me to stand at the front of the car and keep my hands out of my pockets. Some how he found a way to pull the rear seat up and found nothing. Then asked me probably 100 times if I had given any fish away and told him the truth I had not. 

After all of that he said I was clear and then he asked me for my drivers license and called it in. He was looking to arrest me today I have no doubt. Now why should a catch and release angler have to go through that? He had no proof other then someone else's word that I was keeping more then my limit. He tore my car apart and found nothing which supposidly the guy who witnessed me hide fish in my car was the whole reason he was there in the first place made me feel like ****. 

Oh and I showed him my camera of fish that I had caught that day that I had released and video showing the fish going back into the water and he still had an issue with me.


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## capt mullet (Nov 15, 2008)

he was just doing his job. unfortunately he was doing it to the wrong guy who is a legal and ethical fishermen. just take away from it that he is going to actually catch those illegal guys catching fish and that is a good thing. Obviously after searching your car he should have given you a handshake and an apology and sent you on your way. Hopefully he catches the next guy who is poaching


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## Hooked Up (May 23, 2004)

He have a name?


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## JED (Nov 14, 2004)

What he did was perform an illegal search on your vehicle, unless you gave consent to search. Any LEO can't use a 'tip' from an informant to substantiate probable cause for a search. He has to develop the PC through an interview with you. The 'tip' in only what leads him to you, he should have figured out the rest with good police work. This is only correct if everything you said was true and not an exaggeration.

Only if the informant in a known CI and has and established history as one can their 'tips' be used as PC for searches. 

I was an LEO and I have undying support for LEO's, except ones that violate the laws that we are supposed to enforce and ignore OUR rights.


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## elpistolero45 (May 9, 2010)

Yeah...... So he got that 4th amendment Free Pass over on you.. I realize that you were trying to be a good citizen and you had nothing to hide, but you're ALWAYS better off to Smile and Respectfully INSIST.... I will not give consent to search. You may go get a warrant to search inside my vehicle. Your Boat... well, under the guise of a safety inspection it is pretty much a done deal. On your boat, any area that MAY contain illegally obtained wildlife is fair game. Your vehicle AIN'T!
And there's a TON of case law that supports that.

Sorry you found an irradiated Rectum!!! Most are pretty normal, decent human beings.


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## Shrimptail_Hunter (Dec 20, 2008)

His last name was Nguyen I can't remember his first. I am glad he searched the car that was fine but him trying to make me confess to something I was not guilty of rubbed me the wrong way. Exspecially when he told me the cusion was wet in the back seat of the car. I felt it after he left it was cool but no moisture.


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## capt mullet (Nov 15, 2008)

Game wardens do not need warrants to search your home vehicle or boat so I doubt that he did anything illegal.


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## Shrimptail_Hunter (Dec 20, 2008)

I didn't let him look through my car either he decided that for me. But I had nothing to hide so I wasn't going to stop him.


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## BretE (Jan 24, 2008)

here we go....


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## boom! (Jul 10, 2004)

Dang, and I can't get a warden to show up when people are dragging a sein net through a sancturary...???...???


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## Clint Sholmire (Nov 9, 2005)

JED said:


> What he did was perform an illegal search on your vehicle, unless you gave consent to search. Any LEO can't use a 'tip' from an informant to substantiate probable cause for a search. He has to develop the PC through an interview with you. The 'tip' in only what leads him to you, he should have figured out the rest with good police work. This is only correct if everything you said was true and not an exaggeration.
> 
> Only if the informant in a known CI and has and established history as one can their 'tips' be used as PC for searches.
> 
> I was an LEO and I have undying support for LEO's, except ones that violate the laws that we are supposed to enforce and ignore OUR rights.


 That does not apply to a game warden, sorry! He is not an LEO


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## 4 Ever-Fish N (Jun 10, 2006)

Unfortunately, there are jerks in every profession. You just happened to encounter a jerk game warden.


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## netboy (Dec 12, 2006)

The GW was just trying to do his job. The real blame goes to the idiot that called and accused you. He was probably jealous that you were catching some fish and he wasn't. Don't worry about it.


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## SURF Buster (Feb 17, 2008)

Your problem was that you spoke English to well............


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## elpistolero45 (May 9, 2010)

capt mullet said:


> Game wardens do not need warrants to search your home vehicle or boat so I doubt that he did anything illegal.


Oh.. Dang it.. I forgot! The 4th amendment doesn't apply to them.... in Texas...:mpd:

HERE WE GO is right!


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## Clint Sholmire (Nov 9, 2005)

elpistolero45 said:


> Oh.. Dang it.. I forgot! The 4th amendment doesn't apply to them.... in Texas...:mpd:
> 
> HERE WE GO is right!


 Yes you are right!!!!! even though you are being sarcastic. lol


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## Just Jiggin' (Aug 30, 2010)

I've heard of a game warden entering a house to check a freezer for "freshly killed" out of season duck...they can pretty much do anything they want, whenever they want.


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## elpistolero45 (May 9, 2010)

Clint Sholmire said:


> That does not apply to a game warden, sorry! He is not an LEO


Hey CLINT> Read this and remember

*Texas Code of Criminal Procedure - Article 2.12. Who Are Peace Officers*

Art. 2.12. WHO ARE PEACE OFFICERS. 
The following are peace officers: 
(1) sheriffs, their deputies, and those reserve deputies 
who hold a permanent peace officer license issued under Chapter 
1701, Occupations Code;
(2) constables, deputy constables, and those reserve deputy 
constables who hold a permanent peace officer license issued under 
Chapter 1701, Occupations Code;
(3) marshals or police officers of an incorporated city, 
town, or village, and those reserve municipal police officers who 
hold a permanent peace officer license issued under Chapter 1701, 
Occupations Code;
(4) rangers and officers commissioned by the Public Safety 
Commission and the Director of the Department of Public Safety;
(5) investigators of the district attorneys', criminal 
district attorneys', and county attorneys' offices;
(6) law enforcement agents of the Texas Alcoholic Beverage 
Commission; 
(7) each member of an arson investigating unit commissioned 
by a city, a county, or the state;
(8) officers commissioned under Section 37.081, Education 
Code, or Subchapter E, Chapter 51, Education Code;
(9) officers commissioned by the General Services 
Commission; 
*(10) law enforcement officers commissioned by the Parks and 
Wildlife Commission;*
(11) airport police officers commissioned by a city with a 
population of more than 1.18 million that operates an airport that 
serves commercial air carriers;
(12) airport security personnel commissioned as peace 
officers by the governing body of any political subdivision of this 
state, other than a city described by Subdivision (11), that 
operates an airport that serves commercial air carriers;
(13) municipal park and recreational patrolmen and security 
officers; 
(14) security officers and investigators commissioned as 
peace officers by the comptroller;
(15) officers commissioned by a water control and 
improvement district under Section 49.216, Water Code;
(16) officers commissioned by a board of trustees under 
Chapter 54, Transportation Code;
(17) investigators commissioned by the Texas State Board of 
Medical Examiners;
(18) officers commissioned by the board of managers of the 
Dallas County Hospital District, the Tarrant County Hospital 
District, or the Bexar County Hospital District under Section 
281.057, Health and Safety Code;
(19) county park rangers commissioned under Subchapter E, 
Chapter 351, Local Government Code;
(20) investigators employed by the Texas Racing Commission; 
(21) officers commissioned under Chapter 554, Occupations 
Code; 
(22) officers commissioned by the governing body of a 
metropolitan rapid transit authority under Section 451.108, 
Transportation Code, or by a regional transportation authority 
under Section 452.110, Transportation Code;
(23) investigators commissioned by the attorney general 
under Section 402.009, Government Code;
(24) security officers and investigators commissioned as 
peace officers under Chapter 466, Government Code;
(25) an officer employed by the Texas Department of Health 
under Section 431.2471, Health and Safety Code;
(26) officers appointed by an appellate court under 
Subchapter F, Chapter 53, Government Code;
(27) officers commissioned by the state fire marshal under 
Chapter 417, Government Code;
(28) an investigator commissioned by the commissioner of 
insurance under Article 1.10D, Insurance Code;
(29) apprehension specialists commissioned by the Texas 
Youth Commission as officers under Section 61.0931, Human Resources 
Code;
(30) officers appointed by the executive director of the 
Texas Department of Criminal Justice under Section 493.019, 
Government Code;
(31) investigators commissioned by the Commission on Law 
Enforcement Officer Standards and Education under Section 
1701.160, Occupations Code;
(32) commission investigators commissioned by the Texas 
Commission on Private Security under Section 1702.061(f), 
Occupations Code;
(33) the fire marshal and any officers, inspectors, or 
investigators commissioned by an emergency services district under 
Chapter 775, Health and Safety Code; and
(34) officers commissioned by the State Board of Dental 
Examiners under Section 254.013, Occupations Code, subject to the 
limitations imposed by that section.


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## Clint Sholmire (Nov 9, 2005)

elpistolero45 said:


> Hey CLINT> Read this and remember
> 
> *Texas Code of Criminal Procedure - Article 2.12. Who Are Peace Officers*
> 
> ...


 Show that to the game warden! Let us know how that works out for you! lol


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## apslp (Jul 1, 2008)

He had every right to search, Probably did not go about it in the best manner and he probably gets tons of calls for the same thing every day! The tough part is he has to assume that you are doing what was reported.

I would call one of the offices and file a complaint. In the past I have spoken with Lt. Skeen regarding similar issues and the problem was solved quickly. Lt. Skeen was located at the north office and a very helpful guy. 
*Houston (North)* - 350 North Sam Houston Parkway East, Suite 100, Houston, TX 77060; 281/931-6471*
Houston (South)* - 10101 Southwest Freeway, Suite 206, Houston, TX 77074; 713/779-8977
Sec. 12.102. INSPECTION OF WILDLIFE RESOURCES. (a) In this section:
(1) "Residence" means a person's principal or ordinary home or dwelling place.
(2) "Temporary residence" means a place where a person temporarily dwells or seeks shelter. The term does not include a hunting blind. The term does include a:
(A) hunting club or lodge;
(B) clubhouse;
(C) cabin;
(D) tent;
(E) manufactured home used as a hunting club or lodge; and
(F) hotel room, motel room, or room in a boardinghouse used during a hunting trip.
(3) "Wildlife resource" means any animal, bird, reptile, amphibian, fish, or form of aquatic life or any part of an animal, bird, reptile, amphibian, fish, or form of aquatic life the hunting, catching, or possession of which is regulated by this code.
(b) Except as provided by Subsection (d), a game warden or other peace officer commissioned by the department who observes a person engaged in an activity regulated by this code or under the jurisdiction of the commission or reasonably believes that a person is or has been engaged in an activity regulated by this code or under the jurisdiction of the commission may inspect:
(1) any license, permit, tag, or other document issued by the department and required by this code of a person hunting or catching wildlife resources;
(2) any device that may be used to hunt or catch a wildlife resource;
(3) any wildlife resource in the person's possession; and
(4) the contents of any container or receptacle that is commonly used to store or conceal a wildlife resource.
(c) Except as provided by Subsection (d), a game warden or other peace officer commissioned by the department may inspect any wildlife resource that has been taken by a person and is in plain view of the game warden or other peace officer.
(d) Nothing in this section authorizes a game warden or other peace officer commissioned by the department to conduct a search otherwise authorized by this section:
(1) in a person's residence or temporary residence; or
(2) on a publicly maintained road or way that is:
(A) improved, designed, or ordinarily used for vehicular traffic;
(B) open to the public; and
(C) distinguishable from a shoulder, berm, or other area not intended for vehicular traffic.

Sec. 12.104. RIGHT TO SEARCH AND INSPECT. (a) A game warden or other peace officer commissioned by the department may search a game bag, vehicle, vessel, or other receptacle if the game warden or peace officer has a reasonable, articulable suspicion that the game bag, vehicle, vessel, or receptacle contains a wildlife resource that has been unlawfully killed or taken.
(b) A game warden or other peace officer commissioned by the department may inspect a wildlife resource or a part or product of a wildlife resource that is discovered during a search under Subsection (a) of this section.
(c) In this section "wildlife resource" means an animal, bird, reptile, amphibian, fish, or other aquatic life the taking or possession of which is regulated in any manner by this code.


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## elpistolero45 (May 9, 2010)

There are None so Blind as those who will not see.... enjoy disseminating bad info.

The Magic words are. No. I do not give consent to search my vehicle. Please go obtain a warrant.

And yep... I've typed Thousands of Warrants for signatures by a Magistrate of one description or another. It's not bad to be wrong, it's wrong to wanna stay wrong.


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## saltwater_therapy (Oct 14, 2005)

*LOL!*

Probably a rookie GW. they are always gung ho about everything. Just like most other LEO's they presume you are guilty first. They pick who they want to go after, I know someone who was arguing with a friend a few weeks ago and the "friend" called the cops and told them there was alot of marijuana in the persons (single white female) house so cops in full swat gear raid immediately and rip the place apart and find nothing because it was a bs story, but i can point out probably a dozen houses on the "other side of town" that are full of crack dealers that actually have drugs that go completely ignored by the cops. 
They only go after easy targets people they know wont fight. NOT ALL OF THESE PEOPLE BUT ALOT OF THEM CHOOSE THIS TYPE OF JOB BECAUSE
they have small man syndrome, got beat up and picked on in school, didn't have a date to the prom ect.... again i will say that not all Law Enforcement Officers are like this I have some that are very good friends and know many truly want to serve and protect, and many game wardens are passionate about wildlife laws and conservation but there are still bad eggs in the group sounds like you met one.

Its kinda funny how they are enforcing the flounder laws. The dont even watch the flounder hot spot down here in my neck of the woods. I tried to call OGT last year once they never showed up, and the next time nobody ever answered the phone.

some people who were dragging their kids along with them to keep their limit as well and they still had over their limit in november, people flipping over loaded canoes in barge wakes, some guys swimming the intercoastal on floating boards to get to the honey hole, and all of them keeping too many fish.

I'm going in the morning for some catch and realease flounder fishing.
I hope I do get harrassed like you did. at least i know they are watching for the real law breakers.

Sorry for the long rant and sorry to hear you had to go through this but its life. cant get too rowdy with these guys or they will cuff your arse.


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## JED (Nov 14, 2004)

apslp said:


> Sec. 12.104. RIGHT TO SEARCH AND INSPECT. (a) A game warden or other peace officer commissioned by the department may search a game bag, vehicle, vessel, or other receptacle if the game warden or peace officer has a *reasonable, articulable suspicion *that the game bag, vehicle, vessel, or receptacle contains a wildlife resource that has been unlawfully killed or taken.
> (b) A game warden or other peace officer commissioned by the department may inspect a wildlife resource or a part or product of a wildlife resource that is discovered during a search under Subsection (a) of this section.
> (c) In this section "wildlife resource" means an animal, bird, reptile, amphibian, fish, or other aquatic life the taking or possession of which is regulated in any manner by this code.


I do stand corrected concerning a GW statutory authority when game laws are concerned. However, just as with probable cause, an anonymous tip cannot validate reasonable suspicion for a search.

This was taken from: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa4441/is_20070615/ai_n31190966/

*5th Circuit: INFORMANT'S TIP ISN'T REASONABLE SUSPICION*

An informant's tip is insufficient to establish reasonable suspicion for a traffic stop, arrest and warrantless search, ruled the 5th Circuit Court of Appeals. 
"The crucial fact in this case is that the government bore the burden of proving reasonable suspicion," said the court.

"Only when the police have a reasonable basis to suspect criminal [court's emphasis] activity can they justifiably conduct an investigative stop.

The court said police have a duty to establish the reliability of the informant or to establish reasonable suspicion through further investigation that would include specificity of the information provided, corroboration by officers in the field and whether the information concerns recent activity or has gone stale. 
Inf.: U.S. v. Martinez, 05-20330, 5th Circ., May 15. The circuit consists of Louisiana, Mississippi and Texas.


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## seeingred (Jul 24, 2005)

Lots of Junior Game Wardens on this thread. Guy sounded that a real [email protected].


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## Texxan1 (Dec 31, 2004)

Sounds like BS to me...

As much as I respect the job game wardens do, he crossed the line and you should file a complaint....The good guys get walked on too much and its time for that **** to STOP!!!!!!!!


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## Muddskipper (Dec 29, 2004)

Shrimp, even the good guys like yourself have bad days ...

I'm sorry man, that does suck ....

On another note, you have to feel good that TPWD is that passionate in finding some illegal fish, thou, it was at your expense.

Your a heck of a flounder fisherman, and a great conservationist, releasing all of you flounder .....

You will catch your 20+ incher soon ... keep at it .... and hope TPWD gets the real crooks that rob you and I of the presious resources every day.

Folks, let this be a lesson, operation game thief works, even on the good guys apperently ....

the number is on your license ......


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## ol' salt (Jun 11, 2006)

I have called OGT 3 times since it became available. Everytime the warden that came out was very professional to the violators. They have been very professional to me when they check licenses, etc. 

Perhaps whoever called you in gave him some info that you were a bad dude.


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## capt mullet (Nov 15, 2008)

elpistolero45 said:


> There are None so Blind as those who will not see.... enjoy disseminating bad info.
> 
> The Magic words are. No. I do not give consent to search my vehicle. Please go obtain a warrant.
> 
> And yep... I've typed Thousands of Warrants for signatures by a Magistrate of one description or another. It's not bad to be wrong, it's wrong to wanna stay wrong.


I think you hit it right on the head since you are wrong you should admit it and not try to disseminate what you consider to be good info to the rest of us when you are in fact wrong. Verify it before you respond again so you can be sure.

Sec. 12.104. RIGHT TO SEARCH AND INSPECT. (a) A game warden or other peace officer commissioned by the department may search a game bag, vehicle, vessel, or other receptacle if the game warden or peace officer has a reasonable, articulable suspicion that the game bag, vehicle, vessel, or receptacle contains a wildlife resource that has been unlawfully killed or taken.
(b) A game warden or other peace officer commissioned by the department may inspect a wildlife resource or a part or product of a wildlife resource that is discovered during a search under Subsection (a) of this section.
(c) In this section "wildlife resource" means an animal, bird, reptile, amphibian, fish, or other aquatic life the taking or possession of which is regulated in any manner by this code.

It doesnt say anything about a warrant like that which would be needed by a policemen. A good friend of mine is a GW in East texas and he is involved with the FBI mostly doing drug busts on meth labs. the reason he is there because he doesnt need a search warrant to search vehicles or houses under any pretext.

That means if he wants to enter your house right now he can. ANd if you tell him no he will call for back up and reasonably enter.

Quoting the constitution doesnt mean anything. We all have the right to keep arms but that right has to been done in a certain manner just like your 4th ammendment you are quoting. You cant go around with a loaded automatic AK47. So there are certain rules to the ammendment.

Just call the game warden major and ask him a few questions I am sure he will explain it to you and then you can be satisfied. Sorry to show you that you are wrong but it happens to the best of us.


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## HonkyFin (May 28, 2004)

Texxan1 said:


> Sounds like BS to me...
> 
> As much as I respect the job game wardens do, he crossed the line and you should file a complaint....The good guys get walked on too much and its time for that **** to STOP!!!!!!!!


yep


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## capt mullet (Nov 15, 2008)

ol' salt said:


> I have called OGT 3 times since it became available. Everytime the warden that came out was very professional to the violators. They have been very professional to me when they check licenses, etc.
> 
> Perhaps whoever called you in gave him some info that you were a bad dude.


Every GW I have spoken with has always been polite and professional. Even when they were giving us a hard time in Sabine a few years ago. They were stern but they have a job to do and like policemen I am sure they deal with some jerks and have to be harsh to get their respect and their jobs done properly. I take one of the majors from a different region every year and he is a complete gentlemen and a great guy!! I just wish there were more GW's out there enforcing our game laws.


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## glennkoks (Jun 24, 2009)

The Constitution protects you from illegal search and seizure and it supersedes any state law. Without probable cause you were well within your rights to tell him to go fly a kite.
That being said you probably handled it perfectly. He is just doing his job but there is no reason not to do it professionally. It probably merits a phone call to his boss.


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## fish-r-ride (Jan 5, 2009)

The ***** who called on you was really the poacher and used you as the decoy


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## glennkoks (Jun 24, 2009)

SUBCHAPTER B. ENFORCEMENT POWERS
http://law.justia.com/texas/codes/2005/pw/002.00.000012.00.html

(c) Except as provided by Subsection (d), a game warden or 
other peace officer commissioned by the department may inspect any 
wildlife resource that has been taken by a person and is in plain 
view of the game warden or other peace officer.
(d) Nothing in this section authorizes a game warden or 
other peace officer commissioned by the department to conduct a 
search otherwise authorized by this section:
(1) in a person's residence or temporary residence; or 
(2) on a publicly maintained road or way that is: 
(A) improved, designed, or ordinarily used for 
vehicular traffic; 
(B) open to the public; and 
(C) distinguishable from a shoulder, berm, or 
other area not intended for vehicular traffic.


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## spike404 (Sep 13, 2010)

There is nothing more confusing than game laws, and the supposed powers of game wardens. If game wardens had the oft-rumored "super search" authority, why not make all cops game wardens?

The best thing to do when dealing with an obnoxious LEO is to bite your tongue, and go-along with them. Afterwards, pursue your complaint when you have calmed down.


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## bobber (May 12, 2005)

You probably had his spot and this was his way immature way to retaliate.


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## beenfishingyet (Aug 16, 2010)

Protecting Texas game is an important and necessary endeavor. 

Being an A**hole as a GW or guide by using you POV and opinion to bully others is just sad. 

Really, Really?? If you are in the right you should be able to fish and enjoy yourself. 

Next will they plant fish under your truck and call GW on you? Sick folks.


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## Bird (May 10, 2005)

netboy said:


> The GW was just trying to do his job. The real blame goes to the idiot that called and accused you. He was probably jealous that you were catching some fish and he wasn't. Don't worry about it.


As stated above, the issue is the axx-clown that called operation game thief on you. I know that GW personally and have for a long time. He takes his job and the protection of the resources very seriously; definitely one of the good guys. Sorry you had to get the :hairout: treatment but think how the GW's are pretty much fighting a battle with one arm tied behind their back. They have it worse than Border Patrol...Despite how you might feel right now, he's on our side, I've fished with him quite a few time (off duty) and certainly had our share of libations together over the last decade.


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## gater (May 25, 2004)

*Game Warden*



Bird said:


> As stated above, the issue is the axx-clown that called operation game thief on you. I know that GW personally and have for a long time. He takes his job and the protection of the resources very seriously; definitely one of the good guys. Sorry you had to get the :hairout: treatment but think how the GW's are pretty much fighting a battle with one arm tied behind their back. They have it worse than Border Patrol...Despite how you might feel right now, he's on our side, I've fished with him quite a few time (off duty) and certainly had our share of libations together over the last decade.


X2 Bird.....

Shrimptail Hunter sorry you had a bad experience but he is just doing his job. How would feel if you were on the other end and made the call and the Warden showed up and did nothing or never showed up at all.

Like Bird mentioned I know him well and he is a first class young man that takes his job serious and does it professionally. He is not a rookie, he put his way through college and went to work with the TP&WD biologist after school until he could get in the academy. He was originally stationed in Sabine but was sent down here after Ike to assist and got the chance to stay.

His name is Vu Nguyen and if you still have a issue with the way he done his job you can call and talk to his boss, I know he won't have a problem with that. His boss is Capt. Eddie Tanuz and he can be reached at 409-933-1947

Gater


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## aggiemulletboy (May 31, 2006)

JED said:


> What he did was perform an illegal search on your vehicle, unless you gave consent to search. Any LEO can't use a 'tip' from an informant to substantiate probable cause for a search. He has to develop the PC through an interview with you. The 'tip' in only what leads him to you, he should have figured out the rest with good police work. This is only correct if everything you said was true and not an exaggeration.
> 
> Only if the informant in a known CI and has and established history as one can their 'tips' be used as PC for searches.
> 
> I was an LEO and I have undying support for LEO's, except ones that violate the laws that we are supposed to enforce and ignore OUR rights.


A game warden can use your possession of a fishing rod, or gun, or gig, etc. as probable cause I believe. Don't see anything that was illegal. Sorry that it happened, but blame it on the person that called it in to Operation Game Thief and not the warden who was doing what he was supposed to be doing.


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## eksda (Feb 5, 2010)

i just saw the pics from the austin bass club and while i am sure they were all legal it still made my blood boil. its one thing to take 5 or 6 fish home but this reminded me of the days of my parnets back in the 1950s before there were any limits. the reason we have limits now is because of overfishing. i like fishing too but i keep 3 at most and always release most of what i catch. i know of a vietnamese woman in galveston who will catch garbage cans full of crabs as much as a thousand in 2 days. what she does with them is anyone guess that is why we dont have blue crabs in some area. all i am saying is dont get greedy.i know i will get a lot of flack but isnt it just as important to conserve what we have so that we can fish another day


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## Deep C 915 (Jul 19, 2010)

He obviosly went to extermes to insure that you did not break the law. The call could've been legit and the guilty may have seen the GW at the dock and keep on cruising or the actual violators may have pulled out of the water right before you. Does the responding GW recieve the call or is he dispatched by a quota that answers the phone? This hotline could be sending GW's on alot of BS calls from alot of wanna be junior game wardens.To think of it people could be attempting to flood the hotline with bogus reports so the validation of each call would be in question. hhhmmm....

I am now more confused about the law after this thread 
Thanks guys


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## curious (Apr 5, 2006)

He didn't have probable cause to search your vehicle. I know plenty of LEOs. There's really nothing you can do. As they all tell me, "You can beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride."


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## 3up3down (Jul 12, 2005)

Seems like the GW should have observed your actions from a distance first, not just assume there were fish in your car. He could always check the car after observation.

Were there alot of people/fisherman in the area?


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## Titus Bass (Dec 26, 2008)

Someone may have been using you as the "designated law breaker".....Call in on you and sneak out with their illegal catch while the GW is busy trying to find where you hid the game......


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## nightgigger (Oct 13, 2008)

X2 what Titus said, You were the designated decoy.


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## aggiemulletboy (May 31, 2006)

curious said:


> He didn't have probable cause to search your vehicle. I know plenty of LEOs. There's really nothing you can do. As they all tell me, "You can beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride."


You know lots of LEO's, but are any wardens? As I said before, I believe the simple fact you have a rod and reel, cast net, gun, cooler, etc. on you is enough probable cause to search for a game warden...especially if they get a tip that someone is engaged in illegal activity.

Haha I can't wait for the next time some people on here get checked by the warden. "Open your cooler for me please. And let me see that fishing license" "Um, no you don't have probable cause to search my cooler or see my license. I wasn't doing anything wrong!"


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## thebach (Apr 13, 2005)

You need to file a complaint.....................

This is the only way he will learn what is proper.


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## danmanfish (Jun 17, 2010)

3up3down said:


> Seems like the GW should have observed your actions from a distance first, not just assume there were fish in your car. He could always check the car after observation.
> 
> Were there alot of people/fisherman in the area?


searching the trunk area, ripping up the carpet and searching inside the car should have been sufficient.. ripping up the back seat sounds a bit extreme.. I agree the GW should have observed the area and you first before jumping to conclusions..

how did it feel to be the designated decoy... haha..


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## ranger-370 (Jul 13, 2010)

This may run counter to the prevailing opinion here but after 34 years as a LEO I have come to the conclusion that people *will actually lie to an officer* when it comes to violations and the officer has no way of knowing the good guys from the bad ones unless he does his job. It's a shame that good people get caught up in these things but in reality we all have to cooperate to make certain the poachers don't win the battle. I understand your frustration with the situation but only your ego was bruised because you know you are one of the good guys....he didn't.


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## Gilbert (May 25, 2004)

Shrimptail_Hunter said:


> His last name was *Nguyen* I can't remember his first. I am glad he searched the car that was fine but him trying to make me confess to something I was not guilty of rubbed me the wrong way. Exspecially when he told me the cusion was wet in the back seat of the car. I felt it after he left it was cool but no moisture.


you should have told him to go catch his people on surfside jetties keeping illegal fish. :work:


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## HonkyFin (May 28, 2004)

yeah i have to agree ,,Vu got played,,,and played goood.
I'd still file a complaint with his C.O.,,make Vu answer questions like Vu made u answer questions,,,,,(poet)


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## boom! (Jul 10, 2004)

ranger-370 said:


> This may run counter to the prevailing opinion here but after 34 years as a LEO I have come to the conclusion that people *will actually lie to an officer* when it comes to violations and the officer has no way of knowing the good guys from the bad ones unless he does his job. It's a shame that good people get caught up in these things but in reality we all have to cooperate to make certain the poachers don't win the battle. I understand your frustration with the situation but only your ego was bruised because you know you are one of the good guys....he didn't.


You are so right, so until everyone tells officers the truth we should all just stand with our hands in the air! Thanks for all that you do! 
:an6:


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## HonkyFin (May 28, 2004)

Gilbert said:


> you should have told him to go catch his people on surfside jetties keeping illegal fish. :work:


Dam.n ,,thats just :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

3up3down said:


> Seems like the GW should have observed your actions from a distance first, not just assume there were fish in your car. He could always check the car after observation.
> 
> Were there alot of people/fisherman in the area?


This is exactly the way it should have been handled. When a GW gets a call of someone road hunting at night, he posts up and observes before he takes action. Same should have been done in this case.


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## CoastalOutfitters (Aug 20, 2004)

ok, flip side.....

you say you observe someone stuff a bunch of fish and call it in, GW doesn't do a thorough search and lets em go........same situation , diff. outcome....

If the GW wasn't professional, file a complaint, but bear in mind the GW was obligated to follow a tip, right or wrongfully called in , at least give him crediit for doing so.


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## kfigeley (Jun 18, 2006)

Bird said:


> As stated above, the issue is the axx-clown that called operation game thief on you. I know that GW personally and have for a long time. He takes his job and the protection of the resources very seriously; definitely one of the good guys. Sorry you had to get the :hairout: treatment but think how the GW's are pretty much fighting a battle with one arm tied behind their back. *They have it worse than Border Patrol*...Despite how you might feel right now, he's on our side, I've fished with him quite a few time (off duty) and certainly had our share of libations together over the last decade.


Is this a serious statement? Have you even watched the news in last year or so? 
I respect the job you friend does, but the way he treated this guy is out of line. I dont care what your profession is, you should always INITIALLY treat someone with respect. Just my thoughts.


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## cookie (Oct 26, 2004)

ranger-370 said:


> This may run counter to the prevailing opinion here but after 34 years as a LEO I have come to the conclusion that people *will actually lie to an officer* when it comes to violations and the officer has no way of knowing the good guys from the bad ones unless he does his job. It's a shame that good people get caught up in these things but in reality we all have to cooperate to make certain the poachers don't win the battle. I understand your frustration with the situation but only your ego was bruised because you know you are one of the good guys....he didn't.


but sometimes people tell the truth like this time. and you also taking for granted that he received a call. maybe he pulled you over for a illegal search and just used that as a excuse to do it. they (cops of all kinds) do a job i would not do. they are around the worse of the worse day it and day out before long they start seeing everyone as lying are bs them so they think everyone is doing it. it still don't make it right.


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## cruss (Aug 31, 2005)

*respect*

To me, a few flounder are not worth the man's rights and respect not given to him. not witnessing the man catching these flounder and taking them to his car and only going on a phone call is totally wrong, I don't care what the parks and wildlife say.


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## monkeyman1 (Dec 30, 2007)

IMO, if the GW wasn't able to "articulate" that a crime was committed, the OP was harrassed. according to the OP, the unlawful taking of game was not articulated and the only thing the GW had to go on was a tip.

a LEO or GW should have to have more than a tip. it isn't acceptable in my mind for any one of us to be able to "report" someone and have them harrassed in the manner as described.

i'm 100% behind game laws, LEO's and GW's. but i'm more concerned with peace officers "shaking" down somebody for no "articulable" reason...just because he wants to do so.


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## Levelwind (Apr 15, 2005)

I've never been treated badly by a TPW GW, despite many checks over the years and I have a very high opinion of them. That said;

This guy needs his *** straightened out. Someone earlier mentioned "lt. Will Skeen". He is now Major Will Skeen and in charge of coastal fisheries enforcement. And he is the "straightener". His number is on the website.

First there are a lot of half truths and misconcenptions about gws exceptional search powers - yes they do have them. Generally they do NOT APPLY to your vehicle WHEN YOU ARE ON A PUBLIC ROAD.

So *if* you're telling the truth and this asshat really ORDERED (as opposed to asked) you to open the trunk I think he violated your civil rights BESIDES treating you rudely. I would put this complaint in writing with copies to my atty and ACLU. But ONLY if it happened just the way you said. Otherwise I'd talk to Maj. Skeen about the guys attitude.

Enough people vouch for Nguyen I expect he was having a bad day or maybe we're only hearing one side of the story.


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## porkchoplc (Aug 12, 2009)

Does anyone have a link to the laws about open containers aboard boats? Sorry, didnt mean to hijack this thread.


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## HonkyFin (May 28, 2004)

porkchoplc said:


> Does anyone have a link to the laws about open containers aboard boats? Sorry, didnt mean to hijack this thread.


u can drink ,jus caint b drunk

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/faq/learning/boater_education/#n10


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## AC123 (Feb 23, 2009)

You gave him consent to search your vehicle. You can tell him to stop searching when you want him to stop(end your consent). Then, without probable cause he can no longer search. He will then need a warrant to search. 

Now the question, is a wet seat probabale cause to keep searching?


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## Levelwind (Apr 15, 2005)

Shrimptail_Hunter said:


> *he told me to pop the trunk so I did*, then all hell broke loose. He told me that someone called the hotline described me and the vehichle I was in and he was ready to put me in hand cuffs.





AC123 said:


> You gave him consent to search your vehicle. Today 10:39 AM


Where did you see that? Or were you there? Complying with an order is not the same as granting permission.


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## Steven H (Jan 15, 2006)

I think you were mishandled a bit. Worth a phone call and explanation from his supervisor. I would have handed him the keys and told him do what he wants and kept fishing. Oh yeah, he told you to get in front of the vehicle and keep hands out of pockets, that's when I would have got a bit hot and asked if I was being arrested, if not then I would have asked for a supervisor RIGHT then. Makes me hot reading this. I called when the limit was lowered to 5 after seeing a guy and girl stringing the 14th that I personally counted. They were there for 1 1/2 hrs more and at noon when I left, the call had been placed 3 hours ago.


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## JJGold1 (May 6, 2010)

I find it interesting that people continue to believe that Game Wardens have some mystical search and seizure powers. Hard to imagine these old wives tales exist after the advent of the Internet.


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## tngbmt (May 30, 2004)

man... Vu, 
u gave .... nguyens a bad name.. (song lyric re-written by another nguyen)
gw should just respect everyone, even a suspected poacher, while writing a ticket and even if you get a smart @ss like me .. then learn to say thank you. i aint too smart in lawyering stuff but a little respect goes a long way .. both sides.


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## RockportRobert (Dec 29, 2006)

JJGold said:


> I find it interesting that people continue to believe that Game Wardens have some mystical search and seizure powers. Hard to imagine these old wives tales exist after the advent of the Internet.


X2!


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## hookset4 (Nov 8, 2004)

apslp said:


> Sec. 12.104. RIGHT TO SEARCH AND INSPECT. (a) A game warden or other peace officer commissioned by the department may search a game bag, vehicle, vessel, or other receptacle if the game warden or peace officer has a reasonable, articulable suspicion that the game bag, vehicle, vessel, or receptacle contains a wildlife resource that has been unlawfully killed or taken.
> (b) A game warden or other peace officer commissioned by the department may inspect a wildlife resource or a part or product of a wildlife resource that is discovered during a search under Subsection (a) of this section.
> (c) In this section "wildlife resource" means an animal, bird, reptile, amphibian, fish, or other aquatic life the taking or possession of which is regulated in any manner by this code.





JJGold said:


> I find it interesting that people continue to believe that Game Wardens have some mystical search and seizure powers. Hard to imagine these old wives tales exist after the advent of the Internet.


Nothing in the quote from apslp mentions the need of a search warrant. That is the only thing I have ever heard is that a game warden does not need a warrant to search if suspicion of conditions first listed are met. All references to LEO needing a search warrant seem to not apply to the situation.

Game wardens have always been courteous to me, even when searching. I wasn't there and don't know what actually transpired, but if it all actually happened as written here, the warden sounds at least a little out of line to me.

-hook


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## porkchoplc (Aug 12, 2009)

HonkyFin said:


> u can drink ,jus caint b drunk
> 
> http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/faq/learning/boater_education/#n10


Thanks for that. I took the boaters education practice test and passed...barely. A 75 isnt acceptable to me.


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## steb4680 (Nov 10, 2009)

HIS FIRST NAME IS VU, THE WORLD RENOWNED SIR VU NGUYEN AND HE WORKS OUT OF THE LAMARQUE OFFICE AND IS STATIONED IN GALVESTON COUNTY.


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## Levelwind (Apr 15, 2005)

JJGold said:


> I find it interesting that people continue to believe that Game Wardens have some mystical search and seizure powers. Hard to imagine these old wives tales exist after the advent of the Internet.


I find it interesting that people continue to be uninformed about the law after the advent of the internet.

I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you. GWs DO have search and entry laws that other LEOs do not have. Lots of cops don't want to believe that, but it's absolutely true. But here's the other thing, they are NOT as broad as some people believe they are. Here are the two main ones IMO.

These are cut and pastes from the Texas Parks and Wildlife Code.

1. Right to enter property.

"
(_a) To enforce the game and fish laws of the state and to conduct scientific investigations and research regarding wild game or fish, an *authorized employee of the department may enter on any land or water where wild game or fish are known to range or stray*. No action may be sustained against an employee of the department to prevent his entering on land or water when acting in his official capacity as described by this subsection._

They do not need to be answering a complaint or pursuing a criminal investigation and they do NOT need the property owners consent. If a gate is locked they're authorized to whack the lock. While other LEOs are sometimes authorized to enter private property with neither a search warrant nor the owners permission, those authorizations are limited in scope. Wild game or fish are known to range or stray in virtually every piece of land in Texas. 

2. Right to search personal effects (such as a game bag, cooler, etc.) If you read below carefully, you will note that a GW needs *neither a search warrant, *a reasonable articulable suspicion of lawbreaking, or probable cause, OR your permission to inspect your cooler, your game bag, your pockets, etc. if he believes you have been hunting or fishing. This is an exceptional power. No other LEO may search your belongings, pockets, etc. without one of the three things listed above. In fact, in almost all cases they either need your permission or a warrant. 

_Except as provided by Subsection (d), a game warden or other peace officer commissioned by the department who observes a person engaged in an activity regulated by this code or under the jurisdiction of the commission *or reasonably believes that a person is or has been engaged in an activity regulated by this code or under the jurisdiction of the commission may inspect:*_
_(1) any license, permit, tag, or other document issued by the department and required by this code of a person hunting or catching wildlife resources;_
_(2) any device that may be used to hunt or catch a wildlife resource;_
_(3) any wildlife resource in the person's possession; and_
_(*4) the contents of any container or receptacle that is commonly used to store or conceal a wildlife resource.*_

*HOWEVER *
As I said earlier, their "superpowers" do not extend as far as some think, and some GWs would HAVE you think. In fact, see below.

(d) _*Nothing in this section authorizes a game warden or other peace officer commissioned by the department to conduct a search otherwise authorized by this section:*_
_*(1) in a person's residence or temporary residence; or*_
_*(2) on a publicly maintained road or way that is:*_
_(A) improved, designed, or ordinarily used for vehicular traffic;_
_(B) open to the public; and_
_(C) distinguishable from a shoulder, berm, or other area not intended for vehicular traffic._

So the "super power" doesn't extend to a vehicle on a public roadway. There, or in your home, they need essentially the same things all other LEOs do, either your permission or a warrant absent exigent circumstances.


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## monkeyman1 (Dec 30, 2007)

apslp said:


> Sec. 12.104. RIGHT TO SEARCH AND INSPECT. (a) A game warden or other peace officer commissioned by the department may search a game bag, vehicle, vessel, or other receptacle *if the game warden or peace officer has a reasonable, articulable suspicion* that the game bag, vehicle, vessel, or receptacle contains a wildlife resource that has been unlawfully killed or taken.
> (b) A game warden or other peace officer commissioned by the department may inspect a wildlife resource or a part or product of a wildlife resource that is discovered during a search under Subsection (a) of this section.
> (c) In this section "wildlife resource" means an animal, bird, reptile, amphibian, fish, or other aquatic life the taking or possession of which is regulated in any manner by this code.





Levelwind said:


> I find it interesting that people continue to be uninformed about the law after the advent of the internet.
> 
> I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you. GWs DO have search and entry laws that other LEOs do not have. Lots of cops don't want to believe that, but it's absolutely true. But here's the other thing, they are NOT as broad as some people believe they are. Here are the two main ones IMO.
> 
> ...


levelwind, i understand what you're saying. but the code seems contradictory to me.


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## icantcatchfish (Mar 12, 2010)

Shrimptail_Hunter said:


> His last name was Nguyen I can't remember his first. I am glad he searched the car that was fine but him trying to make me confess to something I was not guilty of rubbed me the wrong way. Exspecially when he told me the cusion was wet in the back seat of the car. I felt it after he left it was cool but no moisture.


sounds like a vietnamese name... he should go catch his kinda of people keeping undersized and over the limit fish!


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## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

icantcatchfish said:


> sounds like a vietnamese name... he should go catch his kinda of people keeping undersized and over the limit fish!


hmm, nothing like playing the race card, eh? Some of the best folks I know came from Vietnam. Hardworking, pay cash, honor students for kids, but hey, "they" are all the same, right? Loser.


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## icantcatchfish (Mar 12, 2010)

Mont said:


> hmm, nothing like playing the race card, eh? Some of the best folks I know came from Vietnam. Hardworking, pay cash, honor students for kids, but hey, "they" are all the same, right? Loser.


ummm they're MOSTLY the same when it comes to fishing, and the name calling is not necessary.
By the way, Gilbert made the same comment.


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## Coastal Whaler (Dec 28, 2005)

I have a similar story that happened to me one January day about 20 years ago. I had been catching alot of trout in the Island Moorings Harbor for a couple days. This was before the harbor had been developed. This one particular day I had my 5 year old son with me. Fishing was slow since it had warmed up and most the fish had left. As I was leaving, using the road next to the airport, a Game Warden truck drove toward me and flagged me down. He asked if I had any fish and I said just a couple. He then opened my camper shell to the truck and started going through everything. He then checked my license and asked for my drivers license. He then went back to the truck and radioed the Port Aransas PD and asked them to run a check on me. This went on for close to 20 minutes. He finally asked me if I had been fishing there the day before. I said yes since I had nothing to hide. He then told me someone had reported that someone had been catching and keeping undersized trout in the area for the last couple days. I said I had seen no one else fishing, but I had not kept over my limit or any that were undersized. Well, he finally let me go after another 10 minutes. Now this is the reason I am telling this story. When I got back in the truck and started home my 5 year old son looked at me and with a grin said, "Daddy, Everywhere you go you've got a friend."LOL True story!


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## Levelwind (Apr 15, 2005)

monkeyman1 said:


> levelwind, i understand what you're saying. but the code seems contradictory to me.


Yes, it does at first glance. But if you read it carefully, neither part contradicts the other. In effect, A GW needs no more than to reasonably believe a person has been hunting or fishing in order to check licenses, guns, gigs, rods and reels, etc., fish or game, or a "the contents of any container or receptacle COMMONLY USED TO store or conceal a wildlife resource BUT NOT in the persons home or temporary domicile, or in a vehicle on a public road.

On the other hand, if a *reasonable articulable suspicion* of illegal activity exists, he may inspect your vehicle or vessel or game bag or receptacle for instance ON a public road and he NEED NOT believe that you yourself were engaged in hunting or fishing (maybe you're just transporting illegally taken fish or game).

At least that's how I read it. The two statutes should be combined to eliminate confusion. Just for the record, I'm not sure the recently (6 years or so ago) statute allowing GWs to search your bag in the field with no permission, warrant or suspicion is constitutionally sound and this is why TPW wardens SELDOM do it without asking permission or having some reason to believe (that they can articulate before a judge) that you're engaged in illegal activity. They really don't want to test it at the Supreme Court level. Just my guess.


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## flashlight (Jul 9, 2007)

It seems like this topic pops up every six months or so. I guess it will never go to rest. Game Wardens have no mystical search and seizure powers. It is the game laws of the State of Texas that are a little more broad than the other laws. The State saw fit that all a Peace Officer needs is a REASONABLE BELIEF that you have been hunting or fishing (examples: carrying a fishing pole and a cooler, driving your vehicle on your property with a rifle in the rear gun rack) and you and your contents can be checked. Its not that hard to comprehend. ANY Peace Officer in the State of Texas can enforce game laws. Thats where that, "Game Warden or other peace officer commissioned by the department" comes in. By department, the game laws are referring to the Texas Commission on Law Enforcement Standards and Education. 

For the most part, Game Wardens are the only peace officers in Texas who usually enforce the game laws. I have seen folks charged before on a city park, shooting squirrels. They were not charged by the Game Warden, they were charged by an officer using the Parks and Wildlife code. 

In certain instances, other law enforcement agencies use game wardens to gain access to make other types of arrests (narcotics, guns, trafficking) gaining entry by a fish or game violation. Its not that these law enforcement agencies can't enforce the game laws, its about beleivability on the turds trial. The first question the defense attorney would ask the officer is, "you don't expect the jury to believe that you were in there to look for a deer shot out of season do you? And then you just stumble on my clients 5 kilos of coke?

As far as being rude goes. In the academy, they teach you alot of things. One thing they do not teach much of is tact and compassion. Those things come with observing a thousand different scenes out in the real world and understanding what you saw. With checking folks daily, it can become routine and one can start lacking compassion. I think the number one thing that can get an officer in trouble is taking this job personally. It's just a job and you can't take it personal. I know I have told myself that at least a thousand times in my career!


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## gater (May 25, 2004)

*Jerk*



icantcatchfish said:


> sounds like a vietnamese name... he should go catch his kinda of people keeping undersized and over the limit fish!


Vu's cell phone number is 409-739-6567, why don't you give him a call and tell him yourself. You might want to put that number in your phone while your at it just in case you need some assistance some day. I guarantee Vu will stop what he's doing to help you out!

Gater


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## BullyARed (Jun 19, 2010)

Gilbert said:


> you should have told him to go catch his people on surfside jetties keeping illegal fish. :work:


I would bet you that he would and he would not let any of these "people" get away with it. What he has done was just doing his job regardless who you are. So, don't be racist. He is a sworn officer and his job is to uphold and enforce the laws. You will be glad one day when you see this same GW in a circumstance that could save your live.


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## Lone-Star (Dec 19, 2009)

If what you say is true then you should calmly and rationally report this to his supervisor. Cant really blame the guy as I am sure it is uncommon to have false reports to OGT.

The person you should really be mad at is the person who made the false report to OGT. If your story is true, get a lawyer, have them pull the phone records and recordings and sue the **** out of whoever made the false report. You do not have any protection if you make a report in bad faith.


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## choppercop (Aug 27, 2010)

Levelwind said:


> _*(2) any device that may be used to hunt or catch a wildlife resource;*_


Levelwind, I believe that the vehicle is also included. The vehicle would fall under the "any device" , same as a boat, just a different means of transportation.

Bob


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## HonkyFin (May 28, 2004)

gater said:


> Vu's cell phone number is 409-739-6567, why don't you give him a call and tell him yourself. You might want to put that number in your phone while your at it just in case you need some assistance some day. I guarantee Vu will stop what he's doing to help you out!
> 
> Gater


I hope Vu dont get played again.


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## Levelwind (Apr 15, 2005)

flashlight said:


> It seems like this topic pops up every six months or so. I guess it will never go to rest. Game Wardens have no mystical search and seizure powers. It is the game laws of the State of Texas that are a little more broad than the other laws. The State saw fit that all a Peace Officer needs is a REASONABLE BELIEF that you have been hunting or fishing (examples: carrying a fishing pole and a cooler, driving your vehicle on your property with a rifle in the rear gun rack) and you and your contents can be checked. Its not that hard to comprehend. ANY Peace Officer in the State of Texas can enforce game laws. Thats where that, "Game Warden or other peace officer commissioned by the department" comes in. By department, the game laws are referring to the Texas Commission on Law Enforcement Standards and Education.
> 
> For the most part, Game Wardens are the only peace officers in Texas who usually enforce the game laws. I have seen folks charged before on a city park, shooting squirrels. They were not charged by the Game Warden, they were charged by an officer using the Parks and Wildlife code.
> 
> ...


Interesting take. So flashlight you as a city cop, a sherrifs deputy, etc. are legally authorized, by virtue of being a Law Enforcement officer in Texas to enter properties without permission or warrant, because fish and game are known to range or stray? *Even if you don't think any laws are being broken *and you have to whack a lock?

" "Game Warden or other peace officer commissioned by the department" comes in. By department, the game laws are referring to the Texas Commission on Law Enforcement Standards and Education. "

I don't think so. If that were the case it would be "authorized by the commission". I think "The Department", in the Parks and Wildlife code, means the Parks and Wildlife department.


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## Levelwind (Apr 15, 2005)

choppercop said:


> Levelwind, I believe that the vehicle is also included. The vehicle would fall under the "any device" , same as a boat, just a different means of transportation.
> 
> Bob


Could be, Bob. I expect some of these areas have been defined by case law.


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## BullyARed (Jun 19, 2010)

icantcatchfish said:


> ummm they're MOSTLY the same when it comes to fishing, and the name calling is not necessary.
> By the way, Gilbert made the same comment.


Not just because Gilbert made the same comment and you had to follow. Some violated the laws because it's due to either their ignorance, greed, poor, or not knowing about the laws (reason of doubt). Don't take a whole in your statement and that's racist. What was discussed here was about a GW who just did his job and his race is Vietnamese. I bet you he was born here. You will be glad one day that this same GW will be there for you and protect you. I have all my respect to any GW. They put their live on the line every day. Because of them I feel safer on water or when I fish/hunt any time.


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## texwake (Aug 17, 2010)

JED said:


> What he did was perform an illegal search on your vehicle, unless you gave consent to search. Any LEO can't use a 'tip' from an informant to substantiate probable cause for a search. He has to develop the PC through an interview with you. The 'tip' in only what leads him to you, he should have figured out the rest with good police work. This is only correct if everything you said was true and not an exaggeration.
> 
> Only if the informant in a known CI and has and established history as one can their 'tips' be used as PC for searches.
> 
> I was an LEO and I have undying support for LEO's, except ones that violate the laws that we are supposed to enforce and ignore OUR rights.


Actually a Game Warden has the most power of all of the law enforcement agencies. They can search you without consent or probable cause. I have been searched before just becasue I left my wallet in my truck but I still gave him my valid DL # off the top of my head. So he was within his power.


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## texwake (Aug 17, 2010)

texwake said:


> Actually a Game Warden has the most power of all of the law enforcement agencies. They can search you without consent or probable cause. I have been searched before just becasue I left my wallet in my truck but I still gave him my valid DL # off the top of my head. So he was within his power.


 Elaberating on my last post: This is how they are able to go onto your property without consent.


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## flashlight (Jul 9, 2007)

So Levelwind, let me get this right. Your saying that a Peace Officer licensed in the state of Texas through TCLEOSE cannot enforce all the state laws?


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## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

icantcatchfish said:


> ummm they're MOSTLY the same when it comes to fishing, and the name calling is not necessary.
> By the way, Gilbert made the same comment.


I didn't call you a name. I made a character judgment based upon your post and you just reinforced it with the fact you are also a racist. Lumping people into groups based upon race, gender or color is about as retarded as it gets. Normally, I would have just banned you and moved on, but since you also took a swing at several others, I felt it better to respond personally to your complete ignorance. Every game warden I have ever dealt with has been professional, courteous, and a credit to their department.


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## JED (Nov 14, 2004)

texwake said:


> Actually a Game Warden has the most power of all of the law enforcement agencies. They can search you without consent or probable cause. I have been searched before just becasue I left my wallet in my truck but I still gave him my valid DL # off the top of my head. So he was within his power.


This was clarified several pages back :headknock. Per the statute, they only need reasonable suspicion to search for violations of Texas game laws. 
However, as I had said before, the 5th circuit court of appeals ruled that any 'anonymous tip' cannot be used to establish or articulate reasonable suspicion. This was the issue I was concerned with, but nobody else seems to be.


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## capt mullet (Nov 15, 2008)

*elpsitolero45 and his rude comments*

here is what elpistoler45 wrote to me in a private message

"Wow..... I've arrested Ignorant people who are smarter than you..."

So I am dumb and ignorant according to this jackwad.

I hope you have read thru this thread and seen that your ego isnt as smart as you think Mr Badarse know it all.

Why is it that insults are necessary when this is a discussion? Are you that immature?


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## Eliminator (Jun 23, 2009)

Wow, we got lots of Game Wardens and lawyers on here. Probably a few judges too. I mean, those jobs are so easy to get and so easy to do, as referenced by the many experts here. Surely the warden had the same amount of time to examine the facts as we have, because absolutely NO ONE would lie about breaking the law. And shrimptail, I am in no way suggesting that you broke the law, because I don't know. No one really knows what these guys go through on a daily basis. They don't just sit on their hands until someone calls in. As mentioned earlier, they have no way of knowing who is telling the truth and who isn't. They have a process and sometimes the good guys are part of the process. All they have to go on is the info they get. I'm sure shrimptail, as the contatct went on, you became more frustrated and even the smallest act was, in your eyes, grossly unnecessary and uncalled for. We just have to take your word for it. I still support Game Wardens and all Law Enforcement, even though there are some bad ones out there. And I don't think in this case it was a bad one! Just my 2 cents.


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## rsparker67 (Mar 30, 2008)

It seems by law that GW's don't have the right to "do what they want"... but they still do.. Many cabin owners have been confronted by GW's and been searched without consent.. is funny how the law can be twisted... I don't have anything to hide so its no big deal but still don't want to ever be harassed either.


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## BullyARed (Jun 19, 2010)

Eliminator said:


> Wow, we got lots of Game Wardens and lawyers on here. Probably a few judges too. I mean, those jobs are so easy to get and so easy to do, as referenced by the many experts here. Surely the warden had the same amount of time to examine the facts as we have, because absolutely NO ONE would lie about breaking the law. And shrimptail, I am in no way suggesting that you broke the law, because I don't know. No one really knows what these guys go through on a daily basis. They don't just sit on their hands until someone calls in. As mentioned earlier, they have no way of knowing who is telling the truth and who isn't. They have a process and sometimes the good guys are part of the process. All they have to go on is the info they get. I'm sure shrimptail, as the contatct went on, you became more frustrated and even the smallest act was, in your eyes, grossly unnecessary and uncalled for. We just have to take your word for it. I still support Game Wardens and all Law Enforcement, even though there are some bad ones out there. And I don't think in this case it was a bad one! Just my 2 cents.


2X. Shrimptail, just cool it and think it over and you will see good things out of this.


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## steb4680 (Nov 10, 2009)

Game Wardens are Texas Peace Officers who have the same rules and regulations as a rookie police officer directing traffic. No matter what you have to have probable cause to search. And yes and ice chest in the back of a truck or in a boat is a common area and is subjuct to search without consent. Game Wardens have alot of responsibility and they are stretched thin. There are around 500 in the entire state, HPD has almost 6,000 officers for Houston alone. Here is the thing, you have power hungry people everywhere and unfortunately that applies to certain Game Wardens. I know alot of Game Wardens and have put in 100's of hours working along side of them sometimes 18 hours a day. 

The Urban Legend makes people fear the Game Warden when they should be thanking them because it could be you stuck out in a situation that a Game Warden(s) will put his neck on the line to save you. 

You don't have to like them but respect them for the unseen things they do for the general public.


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## elpistolero45 (May 9, 2010)

capt mullet said:


> here is what elpistoler45 wrote to me in a private message
> 
> "Wow..... I've arrested Ignorant people who are smarter than you..."
> 
> ...


So. Did your sister Marry a Game Warden.. or are you dating one? I mean, there are sports casters on ESPN who cheer for their favorite team with a lot less overt enthusiasm than you Rah-Rah for the GWs.

And Since you made a Private Message a public thing... I guess you're crying? I mean... OMG.... I pushed you down? You dropped your dum-dum in the sandbox? LOL Maybe you GW-proofed yourself with this thread?
You're a mouth breather!


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## beenfishingyet (Aug 16, 2010)

Thats funny i dont care who you are thats funny.


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## spike404 (Sep 13, 2010)

The ambiguity of the wildlife laws, and the ambiguity of the powers of GW's, is the whole problem with this thread. On an earlier similar thread I posted something to the effect: The TPWD should get about 50 GW's, and 50 hunters and fisherman together, and give them a test on wildlife laws. I believe that both groups would be surprised about the actual laws, and interpretations.


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## Just Jiggin' (Aug 30, 2010)

All these kinda threads crack me up. Reminds me of highschool. Except in highschool we handled our issues behind the library haha.


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## FAT TIRE (Nov 25, 2004)

Shrimptail_Hunter said:


> I fished all day today fishing for the 20 inch flounder or larger for the flounder revolution and I was catching solid fish but I was not keeping anything I caught so I could fish all day with nothing to worry about with the game wardens.
> 
> Well someone called the game warden on me and told them I had atleast 6 fish hidden in the car. So the game warden asked me to show him my fish and I told him I didn't have any that I was catch and release only and he told me to pop the trunk so I did, then all hell broke loose. He told me that someone called the hotline described me and the vehichle I was in and he was ready to put me in hand cuffs.
> 
> ...


Dude, your fishing on a US Military base, Federal property. You are guilty until proven innocent on the inside of the fence, they can search anything they want whenever they want. Everything you do is filmed cameras everywhere, and all those government employees in that building behind you are watching everything you do and are probably jealous because you're fishing and there stuck at work. If you didn't do anything wrong don't worry about it, the GW was just doing his job.


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## Deep C 915 (Jul 19, 2010)

capt mullet said:


> here is what elpistoler45 wrote to me in a private message
> 
> "Wow..... I've arrested Ignorant people who are smarter than you..."
> 
> ...


Careful capt mullet There is nothing more vengful then a scorned LEO


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## goodwood (Mar 30, 2009)

sounds like a bad game warden. not good for asian peeps.


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## HonkyFin (May 28, 2004)

FAT TIRE said:


> Dude, your fishing on a US Military base, Federal property. You are guilty until proven innocent on the inside of the fence, they can search anything they want whenever they want. Everything you do is filmed cameras everywhere, and all those government employees in that building behind you are watching everything you do and are probably jealous because you're fishing and there stuck at work. If you didn't do anything wrong don't worry about it, the GW was just doing his job.


*** ???


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## FAT TIRE (Nov 25, 2004)

HonkyFin said:


> *** ???


Anyone who has been on the Galveston ship channel can easily tell where he is fishing from his pictures. The spot is not accessible to the general public.


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## sweenyite (Feb 22, 2009)

So, Shrimptail Hunter... Where DID you hide the flounder? :rotfl:
Only kidding of course! So far, I have never had an unpleasant experience with a game warden. Most seem to carry out their duties in a professional manner. Sorry you had trouble with yours, maybe he was having a bad day.


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## coup de grace (Aug 7, 2010)

*even GW's need probable cause...people let Game Wardens run all over them because they think they have no rights, wrong, they must have probable cause...*


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## monkeyman1 (Dec 30, 2007)

JED said:


> ...the 5th circuit court of appeals ruled that any 'anonymous tip' cannot be used to establish or articulate reasonable suspicion. This was the issue I was concerned with, but nobody else seems to be.


JED, this is my primary point of contention also. the OP stated nothing that would lead a reasonable person to suspect laws were broken.


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## Hogsticker24 (Oct 7, 2008)

i dont know what to say bout all this. but i did just fart


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## BullyARed (Jun 19, 2010)

For those who posted against this GW, would you post the same if this GW is not Vietnamese? Read Shrimptail's post again. I don't see anything that was excessive. I don't think this GW "ripped" the carpet out. Read over the report again and you will see that this GW did what other GW would do. GWs deal with all sort of people daily. There is nothing that can tell him a person in question is a bad dude or a good dude. Just be cool and let them do their job. One day this same GW may be your savior.


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## JJGold1 (May 6, 2010)

BullyARed said:


> For those who posted against this GW, would you post the same if this GW is not Vietnamese? Read Shrimptail's post again. I don't see anything that was excessive. I don't think this GW "ripped" the carpet out. Read over the report again and you will see that this GW did what other GW would do. GWs deal with all sort of people daily. There is nothing that can tell him a person in question is a bad dude or a good dude. Just be cool and let them do their job. One day this same GW may be your savior.


Relax Alice. You're the only one who has mentioned race in your last 3+ posts in this thread.


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## glennkoks (Jun 24, 2009)

It would be good to finally put an end to the myth that a GW has super mythical powers of search and seizure afforded to no other law enforcement agency. It has been a favorite topic of drunks at bars since before I can remember. Everyone has heard the drunk say: "A Game Warden is the only law officer that can enter your home and search your freezer without a warrant".


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## Levelwind (Apr 15, 2005)

BullyARed said:


> For those who posted against this GW, would you post the same if this GW is not Vietnamese? Read Shrimptail's post again. I don't see anything that was excessive. I don't think this GW "ripped" the carpet out. Read over the report again and you will see that this GW did what other GW would do. GWs deal with all sort of people daily. There is nothing that can tell him a person in question is a bad dude or a good dude. Just be cool and let them do their job. One day this same GW may be your savior.


Absolutely. O.K. I re-read the post and I still don't believe the guy had the authority to order shrimptail to open his trunk. Certainly he could have asked. Also shrimptail described what I would characterize as rude and obnoxious behaviour for which there was no good reason. Certainly we're only given one side of the story but based on the account I think the guy should have some 'splainin to do.


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## flashlight (Jul 9, 2007)

I would think that based on Shrimptail actually out there "fishing" and the GW getting a tip that he is hiding fish in his vehicle (describing the vehicle) would be enough for reasonable suspicion. AND if he has reasonable, articulable suspicion, he can search the vehicle because of this:

12.104. RIGHT TO SEARCH AND INSPECT. (a) A game warden 
or other peace officer commissioned by the department may search a 
game bag, vehicle, vessel, or other receptacle if the game warden or 
peace officer has a reasonable, articulable suspicion that the game 
bag, vehicle, vessel, or receptacle contains a wildlife resource 
that has been unlawfully killed or taken.


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## flashlight (Jul 9, 2007)

Reasonable, articulable suspicion is defined as this:

Reasonable suspicion has been defined by the U.S. Supreme Court as “the sort of common-sense conclusion about human behavior upon which practical people . . . are entitled to rely.” Further, it has defined reasonable suspicion as requiring only something more than an “unarticulated hunch.” It requires facts or circumstances that give rise to more than a bare, imaginary, or purely conjectural suspicion.


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## Levelwind (Apr 15, 2005)

flashlight said:


> I would think that based on Shrimptail actually out there "fishing" and the GW getting a tip that he is hiding fish in his vehicle (describing the vehicle) would be enough for reasonable suspicion. AND if he has reasonable, articulable suspicion, he can search the vehicle because of this:
> 
> 12.104. RIGHT TO SEARCH AND INSPECT. (a) A game warden
> or other peace officer commissioned by the department may search a
> ...


Good point. However I think someone quoted a 5th Circuit ruling that an anonymous tip does not qualify. I may have misread that, though. Regardless, the guy should have been treated decently, especially after no fish were discovered.

Here it is.

_This was taken from: __http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m.../ai_n31190966/_

_*5th Circuit: INFORMANT'S TIP ISN'T REASONABLE SUSPICION*

An informant's tip is insufficient to establish reasonable suspicion for a traffic stop, arrest and warrantless search, ruled the 5th Circuit Court of Appeals. 
"The crucial fact in this case is that the government bore the burden of proving reasonable suspicion," said the court. _

May not be applicable but it seems to me it would be.


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## flashlight (Jul 9, 2007)

I would say yea an anonymous tip does not qualify on itself "alone", but the guy was out there fishing. Based on both of the circumstances, I would think would qualify as reasonable suspicion.


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## bowfishrp (Apr 5, 2007)

Sorry to hear about that. We have had pretty good luck with the game wardens that I have met.

I still want to know how all those illegals fishing off I-10 and other roadside bridges and keeping EVERYTHING are not getting checked for licenses and fish! They are there all the time and you cant tell me they are legally fishing. I guess since they can't or won't pay the ticket they dont bother them? I hope thats not the case.


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## 007 (Mar 11, 2008)

capt mullet said:


> here is what elpistoler45 wrote to me in a private message
> 
> "Wow..... I've arrested Ignorant people who are smarter than you..."
> 
> ...


This isn't the 1st PM that he has sent talking down or threatening someone.


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## elpistolero45 (May 9, 2010)

007 said:


> This isn't the 1st PM that he has sent talking down or threatening someone.


Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

You're still playing that song... you're opinion is no more worthy than mine.. I say you're full of Poop! If you respond directly and in a confrontational manner.... You get it right back! 
That's what happened.
Some guy on your friends list gets miffed and you take up the banner?
Draggin Concrete must be slow? I sure hope your business picks up!

have a great day!


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## Mad Mike (Dec 28, 2005)

If anyone feels that a LEO of any type gets unprofessional, file a complaint against him/her. As far as Game Wardens go, I've never had a bad experience and I get checked quite often while fishing.


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## 007 (Mar 11, 2008)

elpistolero45 said:


> Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:
> 
> You're still playing that song... you're opinion is no more worthy than mine.. I say you're full of Poop! If you respond directly and in a confrontational manner.... You get it right back!
> That's what happened.
> ...


I was just merely stating the facts douche. This isn't the first time that you have injected your bile in threatening Pm's and you know it....and I poured a generator slab in the rain yesterday so I could have the rest of the week off, if'n you must know. So...take your self-rightous BS and stick where the sun don't shine....and just because someone gave you a gun and a badge doesn't give you the right to be a dick.

PS...Please don't send me a Pm explaining yourself....it gets old


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## Captain Dave (Jul 19, 2006)

Tell em like it is 007. LOL

sucks ShrimpHunter. It must of been that time of the month for GW Nguyen .

I have had him sneak up at me at the GYB before and It was late , about 9.30 pm and I was tired. He was telling me about a catch I had and I did not know he was a GW at first. I was keeping good eye contact with him and we were discussing the shark I had on the table. It turned out to be a inch short out of 64..

He save me about a 600-800 $ ticket and that evening after I argued with him for about a min till I seen his name on the jacket and the GW patch..

There is alott more the GW do beside the Feech. Just think about poachers with 7mm..


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## monkeyman1 (Dec 30, 2007)

elpistolero45 said:


> Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:
> 
> You're still playing that song... you're opinion is no more worthy than mine.. I say you're full of Poop! If you respond directly and in a confrontational manner.... You get it right back!
> That's what happened.
> ...


007 isn't on my friends list, nor have i ever met him, wouldn't know him if i saw him. but i know from 2cool that he's a stand-up guy and it'd be unlike him to start "stuff". i don't know you either, but it sure seems like you're often times the common denominator for trouble...just stating an observation.


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## BullyARed (Jun 19, 2010)

JJGold said:


> Relax Alice. You're the only one who has mentioned race in your last 3+ posts in this thread.


You Alice, need to read all the posts over again.


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## 6.5 shooter dude (Jan 8, 2008)

007 said:


> I was just merely stating the facts douche. This isn't the first time that you have injected your bile in threatening Pm's and you know it....and I poured a generator slab in the rain yesterday so I could have the rest of the week off, if'n you must know. So...take your self-rightous BS and stick where the sun don't shine....and just because someone gave you a gun and a badge doesn't give you the right to be a dick.
> 
> PS...Please don't send me a Pm explaining yourself....it gets old


Hey Mike,this seems fitting here.


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## sweenyite (Feb 22, 2009)

:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:


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## DMC (Apr 2, 2006)

I didn't read the entire thread. So where did you hide the fish?


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## cloudfishing (May 8, 2005)

Some one spent a great deal of time watching you catch your fish as well as going to the point of finding out what you drive. This has "set up" written all over it.


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## j0eka (Sep 14, 2005)

He was fishing at the ferry landing on the army corp of engineering side, which was restricted to family. I know someone that works over there and there have been several reports of tickets handed out by the GW for people hiding fish in their cars in special compartments. If other people view you catching lots of flatties and you so happened to be frequently walking back to your car for who knows what, which im not saying you did, dont be surprised if someone calls the GW on you. Im sure several ppl would call OGT if they saw such actions.


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