# New to Fly Fishing Need Some Help



## devand (Jun 9, 2010)

I am looking into trying out some saltwater fly fishing for reds around the seadrift/POC area. I have an 8wt okuma reel and an 8wt rod. Don't really need help with the casting part but need help with rigging. 

For the leader/tippet what are you guys using? Also as far as flys go, what should I get as a small starter kit? If I like it I will learn how to tie them, but don't want to put money into that yet. 

Lastly what knots are you using to connect leader/tippet to flyline and what knot from the leader/tippet to the fly?

Thanks in advance.


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## karstopo (Jun 29, 2009)

I use fluorocarbon for the most part. 6 feet of 30 or 40 pound butt. Tippet usually 16 or 20# 4 feet of that. Perfection loop to welded loop in line. Blood knot to join butt to tippet. I usually use a loop knot to attach fly, but it eats up tippet on the change. You can make 3 piece leaders with a mid section. 40/25/15, something like that. 

Flies, I live by a baitfish imitation. Some I tie with a little weight on top to ride point up like a Clouser., or I tie them on jig hooks. I roll my own out of Steve Farrar blend or EP fiber. I use a redfish crack inspired fly, these can be lightly weighted or a little heavier. Redfish love crack like flies. Dark colors typically work. Bend backs, seaducers, deceivers, crab flies, shrimp flies. I think they all work.


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

The beauty of fly fishing is there's unlimited ways you can go about it and make it work...but here's mine:

1) leader/tippet: I like a declining size flouro going 3, 3, 2, with a couple ft of tippet for fishing on top or near the top of the water column. Going something like 50, 40, 30 and 20. Doesn't have to be precise in length or weight. For sinking lines use short 4 ft leader. 

2) flys for reds: clousers, deceivers, seaducers, spoon flies and crease flies all work at various times for me. 

3) knots: nail knot for fly line to flouro, at least triple surgeons(four better and five for really big fish) for leader connections, and Lefty's loop knot for tippet to hook for when fly flexibility is desired and San Diego jam knot for others.

This set up works on most salt water fishing for relatively medium sized fish that I do, not just reds, but roosters, dorado, jacks, macks, bonito, etc. Add some wire if you need it for toothy critters. Re-tie the fly whenever tippet shows any sign of wear.


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## Finn Maccumhail (Feb 16, 2009)

Meadowlark said:


> The beauty of fly fishing is there's unlimited ways you can go about it and make it work...but here's mine:
> 
> 1) leader/tippet: I like a declining size flouro going 3, 3, 2, with a couple ft of tippet for fishing on top or near the top of the water column. Going something like 50, 40, 30 and 20. Doesn't have to be precise in length or weight. For sinking lines use short 4 ft leader.
> 
> ...


Why the surgeon's for the leader connections?


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

Finn Maccumhail said:


> Why the surgeon's for the leader connections?


Easier, stronger(tested on certified scales), faster, more reliable(never fails) than the blood or any other I've tried. I can tie it in the dark if need be and sometimes it is needed. I test my knots on certified scales and the surgeons outperforms all others for that connection, especially so as the diameter difference increases.

It has a slightly larger profile than the more elegant blood knot, but if tied correctly it isn't enough to worry about.

p.s. I sure hope this doesn't turn in to one of those knot arguments. KNot interested in that in the least.


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## karstopo (Jun 29, 2009)

Meadowlark is right. I used to have this impression that fly fishing required some exacting and highly specific skills and knowledge on various subjects. I have found that that isn't necessarily the case, but like most things, knowledge and experience are very helpful. There is no one way to make a leader. Some folks use just use a straight piece of 20 # mono or Fluorocarbon. If I had to tie a nail knot, I'd give up fishing. 

That's what I like about fishing. You can follow folks and learn from them and you can work out things by trial and error. You can do it mostly on your own terms.


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## Finn Maccumhail (Feb 16, 2009)

Meadowlark said:


> Easier, stronger(tested on certified scales), faster, more reliable(never fails) than the blood or any other I've tried. I can tie it in the dark if need be and sometimes it is needed. I test my knots on certified scales and the surgeons outperforms all others for that connection, especially so as the diameter difference increases.
> 
> It has a slightly larger profile than the more elegant blood knot, but if tied correctly it isn't enough to worry about.
> 
> p.s. I sure hope this doesn't turn in to one of those knot arguments. *KNot interested in that in the least.*


Well played sir.

Not looking to argue, just curious as to why folks use specific knots.

And are you talking about a surgeon's loop:
http://www.animatedknots.com/surgeo...png&Website=www.animatedknots.com#ScrollPoint

Or the surgeon's knot:
http://www.animatedknots.com/surgeonsjoin/index.php?Categ=fishing&LogoImage=LogoGrog.png&Website=www.animatedknots.com#ScrollPoint


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

I use the surgeon's knot for joining leader segments...but I prefer the quad surgeon's because it lays like a figure 8 and tests really strong for me...sometimes get lazy and use triple, but almost never just a double.


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## Permit Rat (May 13, 2014)

Meadowlark said:


> I use the surgeon's knot for joining leader segments...but I prefer the quad surgeon's because it lays like a figure 8 and tests really strong for me...sometimes get lazy and use triple, but almost never just a double.


 I on the other hand, have never used anything _BUT_ the double surgeon's. Never had a problem. I test all my knots after I tie them and my situation has been totally different from most others, in that as a guide, I had to be fast as well as precise. The double creates the smallest knot of the 3 options and is obviously the fastest to tie in the boat and that is important to me. I've seen (I think) where doubles tested to as high as 99% but I think 95-97% is more the norm.


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## austin_kendrick1 (Jan 8, 2016)

If I were you there's a fly shop in Fulton called swan point landing and Dave at the fly shop is a great fly fisher man and can really help you


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## karstopo (Jun 29, 2009)

I like to make my leaders at home and carry a few with me. It's a lot easier tying them in the controlled conditions of home than trying to make one out on the water. Most fly line has welded loops now that I think eliminate the need for nail knots. It's very easy to tie a perfection loop and then connect that to the fly line welded loop. Even if your fly line doesn't have a welded loop, you can make a perfection loop in the line and join perfection loop to perfection loop. 

I put a little UV cure ( loon) on my blood knots and hit it with the uv light just for a little insurance. I try to make my perfection loops very small to ensure they will go through the guides should I feel the need to or accidentally reel my leader up into the guides. A lot of my leaders are longer than they need to be, but I like them to be that way if I'm just drift fishing or surf fishing and don't need the greater control of an seven or eight or 9 foot leader that might be better for sight casting. I can always chop off some ot the extra tippet should conditions favor sight casting. By doing that, I can change flies more before I burn through the tippet. Plus I use an 8 foot minimag or a 7'6" CGR in my kayak. It's very easy to reel up a leader into the guides. You want the leader to not get hung up in the guides should the fish make an unexpected last ditch lunge. My way is just a perspective, it's not the right way and I don't feel it's the wrong way. Like permit rat said, it is a good skill to be able to make a leader up quickly in the boat. I've had leaders break. One broke when I neglected a wind knot and a jack crevealle took off with my fly. I've had shell and teeth part my leader. I haven't had one fail at the knot yet.


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## 2thDr (Jan 25, 2014)

*leader/knots*

I really enjoy these discussions, because most flyfishers are eager to help others enjoy this incredible sport. Over the years I have tried nearly all the above methods, and they all work. Now, simplicity matters a little more to me. I buy FeatherCraft furled leaders, 5 to 7 feet. Tiny welded ring on tippet end allows simple tie (knot your choice). These things lay out very nicely, wind knots are almost non-existant, and they last for years. Small enough ring that they don't pick up grass, and even work with poppers. Fluorocarbon version acts like a sink tip. Good luck on your POC trip. Agree with Redfish crack as a great fly. Not made commercially with a wire weed-guard, so I make my own. However, most fun is a Dink or other small popper.


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

2thDr said:


> .... Fluorocarbon version acts like a sink tip. .....


Interesting. I've always considered those to be somewhat "gimmicks" but you give a good reason for them. Thanks for that viewpoint.


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## karstopo (Jun 29, 2009)

I agree about these discussions being helpful. I still think there is a lot of uncharted territory in fly fishing and fly tying.


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## SurfRunner (May 22, 2004)

2thDr said:


> I really enjoy these discussions, because most flyfishers are eager to help others enjoy this incredible sport. Over the years I have tried nearly all the above methods, and they all work. Now, simplicity matters a little more to me. I buy FeatherCraft furled leaders, 5 to 7 feet. Tiny welded ring on tippet end allows simple tie (knot your choice). These things lay out very nicely, wind knots are almost non-existant, and they last for years. Small enough ring that they don't pick up grass, and even work with poppers. Fluorocarbon version acts like a sink tip. Good luck on your POC trip. Agree with Redfish crack as a great fly. Not made commercially with a wire weed-guard, so I make my own. However, most fun is a Dink or other small popper.


I love the tippet rings! I use them and they will make a leader last longer. It is much easier to cut and retie while out there fishing. And, you save your leader in the process.


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## crw91383 (Nov 21, 2008)

Everybody provided some good advice I have a different type of advice. As you start out with the fly rod you will become frustrated at times whether it be your casting, fly presentation, wind etc. You will be tempted to put down the fly rod and pick a conventional set up. Whatever you do don't pick up the conventional. Its going to be hard and you will definitely not catch as many fish at first but in the long run it will pay off. The more you cast the better you will get. Now I might pick up a conventional rod once maybe twice a year and I consider that a bad year if I have to do it that many times.


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## JKD (May 30, 2009)

Meadowlark said:


> The beauty of fly fishing is there's unlimited ways you can go about it and make it work...but here's mine:
> 
> 1) leader/tippet: I like a declining size flouro going 3, 3, 2, with a couple ft of tippet for fishing on top or near the top of the water column. Going something like 50, 40, 30 and 20. Doesn't have to be precise in length or weight. For sinking lines use short 4 ft leader.


Just to clarify, are you saying 3' of 50, 3' of 40, 2' of 30 and a length of 20 as tippet?


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

JKD said:


> Just to clarify, are you saying 3' of 50, 3' of 40, 2' of 30 and a length of 20 as tippet?


Yes...and also saying that the lengths/weights don't have to be precise, just declining to get excellent presentations.


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## JKD (May 30, 2009)

Excellent, thanks!


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## Ripin' Lips (Jul 3, 2012)

devand said:


> I am looking into trying out some saltwater fly fishing for reds around the seadrift/POC area. I have an 8wt okuma reel and an 8wt rod. Don't really need help with the casting part but need help with rigging.
> 
> For the leader/tippet what are you guys using? Also as far as flys go, what should I get as a small starter kit? If I like it I will learn how to tie them, but don't want to put money into that yet.
> 
> ...


congrats on making the decision to not catch fish. haha just joking. Fly fishing the TX coast can be very frustrating at times but very rewarding. don't get discouraged. and ask advice if you need it. Most of all ,never stop exploring. Everyone here is giving great advice and wants you to succeed.

Every starter box on the TX coast should include the following in your favorite colors: Minnows (clousers,decievers,sliders), Crab(like EP w/ silly legs), shrimp (I like the kwan), and at least one or two attractor flies (IE spoons, rattles, popper, gurgler). You can buy flies on any online store but I like going to brick and mortar shops so I can see the size, feel the weight and materials. FTU in Houston has a great saltwater selection. While pricey you can pick up a handful to start with and once you get tying you can create anything you want. I would recommend getting at least one or two heavier flies for the deeper water. I haven't been to orvis yet but bass pro has a decent selection of pre tied flies but I think FTU is better. Once you start tying try Bearsden.com. If you PM me I'd be happy to give you a handful of flies.


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## davidb (May 10, 2006)

I like the leader to be 50% butt and go down to 12lb in clear conditions.

Buy multiples of the standbys like the clouser, spoonfly and a shrimp pattern. It is really frustrating to be on fish and get your last productive fly chewed up.

Best advice is to go with a guide or someone experienced the first time as it will jump start the learning curve. It is nice to connect with some fish on the first outing too.


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