# anyone own a 257 hot tamale?



## CoastalOutfitters (Aug 20, 2004)

the write up pasted...

Fate allowed me to cross paths with an Ackley disciple when I was outfitting in Alberta, Canada. James Ferguson of Wharton, Texas, came to hunt with me, and we struck up a lasting friendship. James is a superb custom rifle builder and has built several hunting rifles for me - all capable of hypervelocity. Two of my favorites are the .257 Ferguson Hot Tamale and the .30-378 Ferguson Mach IV Habanero. 
The .257 Hot Tamale is a 7mm STW case necked down to .257 caliber. I shoot either a 100-grain all-copper Barnes Triple Shock bullet or a Lost River Ballistic Technologies 100-grain J-36 bullet in that rifle. The Mach IV Habanero is a custom .30-378 Weatherby cartridge loaded with either a 130-grain Barnes Triple Shock bullet or Barnes 130-grain XLC Coated X Bullet. In both calibers, Ferguson has reached or exceeded 4,000-fps muzzle velocity. The incredible expansion control of the all-copper bullets makes it possible to achieve complete penetration in spite of their light weights and extreme velocities.

To illustrate my point, Ferguson went to South Africa last year with the .257 Hot Tamale in hand. Yes, he was treading on the hallowed tradition of the .375 H&H Magnum, but he convinced his professional hunter to give him a chance. Then he proceeded to anchor plains game large and small in their tracks with a single 100-grain bullet. Game including zebra, wildebeest, kudu, water buck and gemsbuck folded up like scalded spiders upon bullet impact.


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## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

Do you have bullet trajectory info for that 257? Be interested to see how it stacks up against the 257 Wby Mag.


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## skinnyme (May 24, 2004)

Sounds like a hot little cartridge! How many shots until the barrel is burned up? A box and a half? LOL


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## CoastalOutfitters (Aug 20, 2004)

dunno the guy is right down the road from me, will ck.

that has to be one loud rifle

another paste.......

A muzzle velocity of 4,060 fps with a 100-grain, all-copper J-36 bullet (manufactured by Lost River Ballistic Technologies Inc.) and a ballistic coefficient of .532:
+ 1.89 inches at 100 yards
+ 3.15 inches at 200 yards
+ 1.78 inches at 300 yards
Dead-on at 350 yards
- 2.58 inches at 400 yards
- 10.27 inches at 500 yards.

Velocity at 500 yards is still in excess of 3,000 fps.

Energy in foot-pounds generated at the muzzle is 3,660, and at 500 yards, it still maintains 2,057 foot-pounds of energy which is more than adequate for deer-sized game.

The post was from Buckmaster's Gunhunter Magazine in an article by Russell Thornberry. At the time it was written, the .257 Hot Tamale was billed as the fastest-shooting .25 caliber wildcat on the planet. The article sourced the following as contact information if you'd like to inquire about having the gun built and ammunition made.

Ferguson Custom Rifles, 5320 FM 1299, Wharton, TX 77488
(979) 533-0140, (979) 532-4799;
Fax: (979) 532-4108


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## CoastalOutfitters (Aug 20, 2004)

http://www.2joutfitters.com/STWrifle.htm

disclaimer: i don't know anything about these guys , just an interesting cartridge


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## Captn C (May 21, 2004)

I assume he does his own machine work?

I have a flame thrower in mind he might be able to help me put together.

I have a Winchester P-17 action that I want to barrel for 300RUM. The barrel I want to put on it is a slow twist 30" stainless bull barrel...all I need is the chamber work done...and maybe have the gun blued...I have already taken the "hump" out of the trigger guard...although I may not use it because I want it to be a single shot. I'm not sure if the mag well can handle the 300RUM.

I want to shoot light 125 or 130 grain stuff at 4K FPS. I have a mesquite blank I plan to use for the stock and hope the gun will weight somewhere around 25lbs with a scope on it.


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## S-3 ranch (May 26, 2004)

*spam*



CoastalOutfitters said:


> http://www.2joutfitters.com/STWrifle.htm
> 
> disclaimer: i don't know anything about these guys , just an interesting cartridge


 the barrel will be short term due to the speed and powder needed to get it to 4000 mv , my 240 weatherby only made it about 700 rounds with 60gr of 4831 it was a compressed load and had loaded of kill to it but lost MOA about 600 rounds just my 2ct it is a short term gun ? i dont know but looks too hot


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## CoastalOutfitters (Aug 20, 2004)

C,

i have some hornady 130's that i have revved up in my -06 loads , never chrono'd them , but cookin'..........3400 ????


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## Captn C (May 21, 2004)

CoastalOutfitters said:


> C,
> 
> i have some hornady 130's that i have revved up in my -06 loads , never chrono'd them , but cookin'..........3400 ????


I've already ditched the 06 barrel and 3400 isn't fast enough! LOL


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## CoastalOutfitters (Aug 20, 2004)

pilar...........uh, no 

i really don't know them , but that was the only link to their whole rifle story


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## CoastalOutfitters (Aug 20, 2004)

Captn C said:


> I've already ditched the 06 barrel and 3400 isn't fast enough! LOL


agreed , mine is gonna become a 25-06 as soon as i find a barrel,

it's a lefty 700 bdl, my first deer rifle and i have it's lefty twin in 7 mag


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## kweber (Sep 20, 2005)

possibly wrong here, but mesquite will probably split if used for a gunstock.


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## CoastalOutfitters (Aug 20, 2004)

trouble with all these hyper speed rounds is the have to shoot full copper rounds to keep from slinging the jackets off with the centrifical force.

.17 remm was the first....and it's a mother to reload if your fingers are very big.

i can rev my swift up to 4300+ with conventional 50 gr. sierras and they never make it to the target alot of times........


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## Captn C (May 21, 2004)

kweber said:


> possibly wrong here, but mesquite will probably split if used for a gunstock.


I've built two on mesqute stocks and they are tough...heavy too. One in 7Rem mag and one is 6mm Ack imp.

I would bet it stronger than walnut.


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## kweber (Sep 20, 2005)

Captn C said:


> I've built two on mesqute stocks and they are tough...heavy too. One in 7Rem mag and one is 6mm Ack imp.
> 
> I would bet it stronger than walnut.


that's great Cap'n. I never figgered mesquite would be good for anything stock-wise other than 1911 grips.
every time I've tried to do anything with it, it would end up splitting as soon as it dried a little.


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## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

Mesquite makes a great stock, pretty, tough but heavy, dense.

TH


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## Captn C (May 21, 2004)

kweber said:


> that's great Cap'n. I never figgered mesquite would be good for anything stock-wise other than 1911 grips.
> every time I've tried to do anything with it, it would end up splitting as soon as it dried a little.


In case you have not seen my earlier posts with pics....

Here they are:


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## HornSuperFan (May 31, 2005)

Captn C, where do you get Mesquite blanks or stocks from?



Captn C said:


> I've built two on mesqute stocks and they are tough...heavy too. One in 7Rem mag and one is 6mm Ack imp.
> 
> I would bet it stronger than walnut.


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## rodwade (Feb 13, 2007)

I made a Stock for a stephens double barrel from some mesquite I cut from my backyard. Turned out pretty well but dulled just about every tool I own!


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## kweber (Sep 20, 2005)

beautiful work. very nice.


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## RonE (Apr 10, 2006)

CoastalOutfitters said:


> dunno the guy is right down the road from me, will ck.
> 
> A muzzle velocity of 4,060 fps with a 100-grain, all-copper J-36 bullet (manufactured by Lost River Ballistic Technologies Inc.) and a ballistic coefficient of .532:
> + 1.89 inches at 100 yards
> ...


The above looks pretty good until you look closer. I think the problem is using a 100 gr bullet which does not retain the inertia of a heavier bullet. Notice that between 0 and 100 yards the bullet impact is 1.89 above line of sight and between 100 and 200 yards there is a 1.26" change. Between 200 and 300 yards there is a 1.37" change and then it starts going downhill fast. From 300 to 350 the bullet drops 1.78" and from 350 to 400 it drops another 2.58" or a total drop of 4.36" and from 400 to 500 yards it drops 7.69".

I prefer to hunt with heaver bullets that seem to retain some of their inertia. To me a 180 grain bullet traveling in excess of 3,000 fps is pretty good and pretty stable.

The caliber seems like it would be fun, but not anywhere near the final answer. I wonder how fast you could get 125 -140 gr bullets to go?

I belileve that Savage had a .25 cal 87 gr bullet going just over 3,000 fps in the 1930's (250-3000 Savage) I would think that we could have done better in 70 years.


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## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

RonE said:


> The above looks pretty good until you look closer. I think the problem is using a 100 gr bullet which does not retain the inertia of a heavier bullet. Notice that between 0 and 100 yards the bullet impact is 1.89 above line of sight and between 100 and 200 yards there is a 1.26" change. Between 200 and 300 yards there is a 1.37" change and then it starts going downhill fast. From 300 to 350 the bullet drops 1.78" and from 350 to 400 it drops another 2.58" or a total drop of 4.36" and from 400 to 500 yards it drops 7.69".
> 
> I prefer to hunt with heaver bullets that seem to retain some of their inertia. To me a 180 grain bullet traveling in excess of 3,000 fps is pretty good and pretty stable.
> 
> ...


Gravity is a beeotch when the velocity slows down. Those are some impressive numbers to me. I don't know any 180 grain load that can approach these numbers at the same distances.


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## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

Excellent work on those stocks...excellent.

TH


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## rodwade (Feb 13, 2007)

RonE said:


> The above looks pretty good until you look closer. I think the problem is using a 100 gr bullet which does not retain the inertia of a heavier bullet. Notice that between 0 and 100 yards the bullet impact is 1.89 above line of sight and between 100 and 200 yards there is a 1.26" change. Between 200 and 300 yards there is a 1.37" change and then it starts going downhill fast. From 300 to 350 the bullet drops 1.78" and from 350 to 400 it drops another 2.58" or a total drop of 4.36" and from 400 to 500 yards it drops 7.69".
> 
> I prefer to hunt with heaver bullets that seem to retain some of their inertia. To me a 180 grain bullet traveling in excess of 3,000 fps is pretty good and pretty stable.
> 
> ...


I shot the 250-3000 it was my grandfathers gun. Got my first Deer with it. Nice little gun shot very flat.


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## CoastalOutfitters (Aug 20, 2004)

RonE said:


> The above looks pretty good until you look closer. I think the problem is using a 100 gr bullet which does not retain the inertia of a heavier bullet. Notice that between 0 and 100 yards the bullet impact is 1.89 above line of sight and between 100 and 200 yards there is a 1.26" change. Between 200 and 300 yards there is a 1.37" change and then it starts going downhill fast. From 300 to 350 the bullet drops 1.78" and from 350 to 400 it drops another 2.58" or a total drop of 4.36" and from 400 to 500 yards it drops 7.69".
> 
> I prefer to hunt with heaver bullets that seem to retain some of their inertia. To me a 180 grain bullet traveling in excess of 3,000 fps is pretty good and pretty stable.
> 
> ...


here is a factory hornady 25-06 load for comparison yes its 117 grs but dont follow your logic..

.25-06 Rem., 117 gr. BTSP 8145​
Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
Muzzle2990/2322

Trajectory (inches)Muzzle100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd
-1.50 1.60 -7.00 -20.70 -42.20

dont follow your thinking


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