# Red Snapper.......LA went non-compliant...



## trapper67 (Mar 23, 2011)

Well it looks as though our brothers to our East are set to begin their state snapper beginning in March. How will this affect THE COUNCIL in the middle of all their meetings?
http://www.louisianasportsman.com/details.php?id=4839


----------



## trapper67 (Mar 23, 2011)

2013 Louisiana red snapper to begin March 24
Louisiana Wildlife and Fisheries Commission sets three-day-per-week season to extend through September in defiance of Gulf of Mexico Fishery Management Council
Tags: Louisiana Wildlife and Fisheries Commission, red snapper, LDWF
By Andy Crawford 


51 minutes ago | Mobile Reader | Print 


David A. Brown
Red snapper fishing begins off the Louisiana coast on March 24, and will continue through September in a unique Friday-through-Saturday season structure.

Offshore anglers launching out of Louisiana can begin hauling in red snapper on March 24 this year — more than two months before the expected opening of the federal red snapper season in federal waters.

That’s because a notice of intent to take Louisiana waters out of compliance with federal fishing regulations issued back in June has gone into effect, officials with the Louisiana Department of Wildlife & Fisheries’ said today (Feb. 7).
The Louisiana Wildlife and Fisheries Commission announced their intention in June to set a red snapper season that would begin March 24, with fishing allowed every Friday through Sunday thereafter in all state-controlled offshore waters.

The three-day-per-week state season will continue through September.

LDWF’s Randy Pausina said today during the Commission’s monthly meeting that the only thing standing in the way of that proposal going into effect was printing of the regs in the Louisiana Register, in which all regulations and laws must be published. That printing would happen this week, Pausina said.

The daily possession limit for the season will be three red snapper with a minimum length of 16 inches, Pausina said.

Historically, Louisiana’s boundary extended only three miles into the Gulf of Mexico, but Commission members in June also passed a notice of intent to extend the boundaries of the state to three marine leagues (10.357 miles).

That action was based on 2011’s Act 336, which recognizes that the Louisiana Gulf-ward boundary historically consists of three marine leagues and designates that boundary to be enforced by state law regarding the protection and restoration of coastal lands, waters and natural resources and regulation of activities affecting them.

However, there is some uncertainty about the commission’s move, since a part of Act 336 states that the legislation will not go into effect until recognized by the U.S. Congress, which to date has not happened.

Despite those questions, LDWF Secretary Robert Barham has said his agency’s Enforcement Division would only enforce state laws within the three-league boundary.

However, his agency warned fishermen to “use caution and their own personal judgment when fishing beyond the three-mile boundary that is currently recognized as federal waters, as it is fully expected that federal agents will continue to enforce federal law.”




Click here for more News Breaker
View other articles written By Andy Crawford

SUBSCRIBE TODAY AND SAVE!!!
Buy a subscription to Louisiana Sportsman Magazine AND get the digital edition delivered to your inbox ABSOLUTELY FREE!
Louisiana Sportsman is the complete hunting and fishing magazine for Louisiana. 

Devoted to hunting, fishing and other outdoor activities in the wetlands,
Louisiana Sportsman is the information guide for Louisiana's most active hunters and fishermen.
Order yours today!

RELATED ARTICLES
Tuna fishing expected to pick up at the Midnight Lump 
Posted on January 25 at 12:00 pm by By Anthony Taylor
Louisiana anglers ask for regional red snapper management during meeting 
Posted on January 22 at 5:00 pm by By M.A. Fisher
Giant California yellowfin tuna battle for world record 
Posted on December 13, 2012 at 10:39 am by By Jerry Dilsaver
Rig removals killing offshore habitat 
Posted on August 01, 2012 at 9:34 am by By Kari Dequine
Cut Off angler hit in head with mackerel, hospitalized with severe injuries 
Posted on July 18, 2012 at 1:09 pm by By Anthony Taylor



FEATURED REPORT
HOT WATER CANAL
fished the michoud substation icww at hot water canal friday. let me start by saying wow!!! big trout every few cast. it...
Post | Reports | Forum

FEATURED FISHING GUIDE
Paradise Lodge
Paradise Lodge sleeps 18 guests although 6-12 is the normal occupancy. Check out our webpage and online reservation system for rates and availability.
Get your Business listed




FEATURED FISHING
Southern Delta Charter's
Southern Delta Charters is an inshore charter fishing service out of Venice LA.
Get your Business listed


----------



## Fordzilla06 (Oct 14, 2010)

HeII yeah now if we can just get the other three gulf coast states to come over to the dark side! Course this will prolly just tick of the Feds into further regulations. How about a one snapper per day for fifteen day season in the future.


----------



## Johnboat (Jun 7, 2004)

*I like the Friday through Sunday concept*

Screw the write off mid week customer charter business and hooray for the weekend on their own nickel warriors:work:


----------



## McDaniel8402 (Dec 7, 2011)

That is awesome! I love reading stories about politicians doing the right thing. Seems those stories are few and far between these days. Good for LA. Glad to hear it.


----------



## trapper67 (Mar 23, 2011)

Sounds like the regional management concept getting shut down by the Gulf Council played a large role in Louisiana’s decision to go with a state-water snapper season.
This just released by LDWF:
Louisiana Department of Wildlife and Fisheries News
Feds Once Again Thwart State’s Efforts at Flexibility in Recreational Fisheries Management
February 7, 2013 - Louisiana Department of Wildlife and Fisheries Secretary Robert Barham issued the following statement today in regard to yesterday’s failed motion by the Gulf of Mexico Fisheries Management Council’s Reef Fish Committee to move forward with regional management of red snapper in Louisiana.
“Yet again, the Gulf Council refuses to work with Louisiana toward a more flexible management of our recreational fishery. In a final effort to save the 2013 red snapper recreational season with compatible regulations, the Louisiana Department of Wildlife of Fisheries offered a common sense approach to the Gulf Council to modify the 2013 season and allow anglers more opportunities to recreationally fish for red snapper. Our attempts at a favorable outcome failed.
“We have said time and again that there is no ‘one size fits all’ approach that will work for the entire Gulf Coast when it comes to recreational fishing, which is why we proposed state-by-state or regional management.
“The approach of the Gulf Council is outdated and stagnant. Louisiana believes that no one cares more about or can better manage our resources than our department. The unwillingness of the Gulf Council to work with us on these matters has left me, my staff and the Louisiana Wildlife and Fisheries Commissioners no choice but to move forward with state regulations that will directly contradict those of our federal counterparts.
“In the next 30 days, my staff will work with the Commissioners to decide on a path forward that best suits Louisiana’s recreational sector. We remain open to further discussion with any and all interested parties.”


----------



## JFolm (Apr 22, 2012)

I wish they would have extended their boundaries about fifty miles further out! Texas would follow suit then hopefully.


----------



## hilton (Jan 28, 2008)

That's like them crazy Cajuns, passing laws then telling their fishermen to “use caution and their own personal judgment when fishing beyond the three-mile boundary that is currently recognized as federal waters, as it is fully expected that federal agents will continue to enforce federal law.”

Somehow, it is just fitting, lol. 

Kudos to the LDWF for standing up to the idiocy that is called our federal fisheries management. My question is, why stop at 9 miles? If you are going to be a bear, be a Grizzly Bear and take it out to 50 miles!

You should have heard some of the EDF-funded guys like Jarvis and Krebs saying that "non-compliant" states like Texas shouldn't even be allowed to have representation on the Gulf Council. Sickening how those guys parrot the same sound bites that they get from their EDF advisors/benefactors.

Capt. Thomas J. Hilton


----------



## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

are the LA wardens going to part time for the FEDS after this? 

reason I ask was stopped 50ish miles out of Sabine last year by Louisiana wardens checking fish boxes only. The wardens were way out of there state waters and was told later that the FEDS pay them to go out into federal waters and check people


FYI: I was clean, and we talked more about the badass boat they were in more then anything else. I saw two other boats that day out on the water, huge waste of money for the wardens to be out there enforcing Federal regs.


----------



## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

As Dandy Don used to say "turn out the lights, the party's over". That should stick a fork right in the federal season this year.


----------



## JFolm (Apr 22, 2012)

Mont said:


> As Dandy Don used to say "turn out the lights, the party's over". That should stick a fork right in the federal season this year.


Good point.


----------



## hilton (Jan 28, 2008)

Mont said:


> As Dandy Don used to say "turn out the lights, the party's over". That should stick a fork right in the federal season this year.


The federal EEZ red snapper season offshore of Texas was already D.O.A. with Roy's new powers to shut down seasons offshore of "non-compliant" states. Word on the street is they will use this power to shut down ALL offshore fishing to "non-compliant states....not just red snapper.

How far will this go? Something has to give. So far, they have been doing all of the taking and we have been doing all of the giving. Enough is enough.


----------



## trapper67 (Mar 23, 2011)

hilton said:


> The federal EEZ red snapper season was already D.O.A. with Roy's new powers to shut down seasons offshore of "non-compliant" states. Word on the street is they will use this power to shut down ALL offshore fishing to "non-compliant states....not just red snapper.
> 
> How far will this go? Something has to give. So far, they have been doing all of the taking and we have been doing all of the giving. Enough is enough.


Yes, SOMETHING has to give.


----------



## SwampRat (Jul 30, 2004)

Go get 'um Boudreaux.


----------



## trapper67 (Mar 23, 2011)

*More interesting reading*

The state of Louisiana is apparently going to continue its game of chicken with the feds to see who will blink first in the battle over red-snapper management off the Bayou State coast.

Randy Pausina, assistant secretary for the Louisiana Department of Wildlife and Fisheries, on Thursday told the commission that manages his agency that Louisiana was unsuccessful in its push to get regional management as part of the federal red-snapper framework for the 2013 season.

Louisiana had made the plea to the Gulf Council, a board that manages fisheries in the Gulf of Mexico. Members voted down the proposal, Pausina told the Louisiana Wildlife and Fisheries Commission.

So that means Louisiana will move ahead with its plan to open open red snapper fishing in state waters beginning March 22. The season will be open every Friday, Saturday and Sunday through September, and will also be open Memorial Day and Labor Day.

Anglers will each be limited to three red snapper, measuring no less than 16 inches long, per day.

In 2012, the state Legislature and the commission declared that Louisiana was taking control of waters out to three nautical leagues, or 10.357 miles. Historically, the waters out to 3 miles off the coast were considered to be Louisiana's.

View full size
Louisiana has historically claimed only the waters 3 miles off its coast, but last year, the state extended that line to more than 10 miles. That will greatly affect which oil and gas rigs are fair game for anglers to target red snapper. (Photo by Todd Masson, NOLA.com | The Times-Picayune)

At the commission meeting, Louisiana Charter Boat Association president Daryl Carpenter asked Pausina whose waters those were.

"We both claim them," Pausina said.

"Kind of like smoking a joint in Colorado?" Carpenter asked.

"Exactly," Pausina responded.

It remains to be seen if federal agents will attempt to enforce federal regulations from 3 miles out to 10.357 miles.

The Gulf Council is currently considering a proposal that would grant regional management to states for the 2014 season, but it's really just restating bad regulations, Louisiana Wildlife Federation representative Chris Macaluso told the commission.

"We've reviewed the proposal, and it gives you flexibility with season dates but not with management," he said. "It allows the department seasonal creel limits, but there's no flexibility with the number of fish taken."

Macaluso said studies show recovery rates in the northern Gulf are substantially higher than those in the eastern Gulf.

"The larval count is eight times higher in the northern Gulf than the east, and the pressure is substantially higher in the eastern Gulf, yet they're all governed by the same rules," he said.

Under the Gulf Council's proposal, a quota overage in one portion of the Gulf would reduce the quota allowance in another part, Macaluso said.

"The scientific data shows you have many more fish in Louisiana than you have in Florida, so how can you practicably manage it as one stock?" Macaluso wondered.

Louisiana's dates will be made official on Feb. 20 when they are published in the state's register.

Anglers fishing in Louisiana waters will have 86 days in the season. In federal waters, anglers will have only 27 days, according to commissioner Billy Broussard.

Email
Related Stories
Wildlife & Fisheries secretary chastises federal snapper managers Friday 4 O'Clock Forecast: A great February continues
Add Your Comment
Sign in with your NOLA.com or Facebook account
Sort By: 0 comments so far
Pause Live Updates »
There are no comments on this story yet.

Sponsored By:

most commentsmost read
307 Garden District kidnapping and rape shocks community; 3 suspects still at large
171 Boy Scouts delay decision on admitting gay members
141 15-year-old arrested in Garden District rape
63 NFL reinstates Gregg Williams and the Titans hire him
54 NOPD releases photo of person of interest in Garden District rape, kidnapping
See more comments »
your outdoors photos

Fish Tales: The one that didn't get away
Share your fishing adventures with the local angling community by sending images and a short story See, share all of your fish photos »


----------



## Unbound (Jul 12, 2004)

hilton said:


> The federal EEZ red snapper season offshore of Texas was already D.O.A. with Roy's new powers to shut down seasons offshore of "non-compliant" states. Word on the street is they will use this power to shut down ALL offshore fishing to "non-compliant states....not just red snapper.
> 
> How far will this go? Something has to give. So far, they have been doing all of the taking and we have been doing all of the giving. Enough is enough.


F*** 'em. Snapper taken 10 miles off the LA coast should have no effect on the overpopulated snapper of South Texas. There is no science to justify taking away my God-given right to catch and eat fish.

God bless them Cajuns and sign me up for the revolution. :texasflag


----------



## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

hilton said:


> Word on the street is they will use this power to shut down ALL offshore fishing to "non-compliant states....not just red snapper.


They can't shut down fishing, Tom. Just keeping.


----------



## capt4fish (Dec 4, 2004)

Seems to me that once a recreational boater makes it inshore of 9 miles in Texas and 3 miles in La. Wellll..... federal guys are just screwed.

Go rec's go.


----------



## lmgreeri (Dec 28, 2006)

With the reefs getting ready to go in out of Port A we will have as good of a state snapper haul as you could get out deep anyway. Build the reefs and they will come and prosper. Screw the federal snapper we won't need em soon!


----------



## Swells (Nov 27, 2007)

Unbound said:


> F*** 'em. Snapper taken 10 miles off the LA coast should have no effect on the overpopulated snapper of South Texas. There is no science to justify taking away my God-given right to catch and eat fish.
> 
> God bless them Cajuns and sign me up for the revolution. :texasflag


Shhh, we don't want a NMFS enforcement boat down here.

This is what a STATE red snapper looks like.


----------



## Jimbo100 (Oct 8, 2006)

It's gotten so stupid that you almost need to take a lawyer along with you when you go fishing to interpreted all the regulations and different jurisdictions.


----------



## Capt. Hooky (May 24, 2010)

Jimbo100 said:


> It's gotten so stupid that you almost need to take a lawyer along with you when you go fishing to interpreted all the regulations and different jurisdictions.


Sad but very true....


----------



## Snookered (Jun 16, 2009)

well, I can say this, we're that much closer to getting some kind of change, one way or the other, LOL....the "end-game" draws near.....

be interesting to see how the Feds react....but yeah, Mont, I think LA non-compliance will result in, what, an 18-20 day Federal season?....or was it 14?
snookered


----------



## hilton (Jan 28, 2008)

Snookered,
I believe there will be a domino effect with the other states going non-compliant as well, resulting in a 0 day federal season.

Hopefully this will be the catalyst to hand the whole fisheries management enchilada over to the states, who would be entirely responsible for managing the stocks. They could report to the Gulf council to ensure that overfishing doesn't take place.

Capt. Thomas J. Hilton


----------



## Snookered (Jun 16, 2009)

hilton said:


> Snookered,
> I believe there will be a domino effect with the other states going non-compliant as well, resulting in a 0 day federal season.
> Capt. Thomas J. Hilton


and that's what Mont has been saying, and some members of the GC alluding to what will happen as well.....

However I don't believe for one minute that both sides would allow a stalemate like this to occur without some kind of emergency exit, and I'm not sure why this situation is being allowed to perpetuate itsself....there has to be more to it than just a few egos destroying access to a vibrant fishery....

I understand the GC is bound by the MSA, and likely most of them are trying to do their best in this bad situation that was created by others.....I'm not even sure that MSA allows for state control? anyone know?

maybe, as typical government goes, some laws are left to interpretation by the administrators....not sure why they're not helping themselves by re-framing the interpretation of the rules here....

likely I'm not seeing all the cards on the table though....wish someone from the GC could "step up" and offer some realistic solutions to both the fish and the fisheries....
snookered


----------



## Levelwind (Apr 15, 2005)

Snookered said:


> I'm not even sure that MSA allows for state control? anyone know?


GC has been "scoping" regional management of red snapper stocks, I would THINK that legal obstacles would have been addressed before they put so much work into it. Regardless, good points.


----------



## Snookered (Jun 16, 2009)

Levelwind said:


> GC has been "scoping" regional management of red snapper stocks, I would THINK that legal obstacles would have been addressed before they put so much work into it. Regardless, good points.


yes, and I attended the scoping meeting in Corpus Christi.....the moderators made it abundantly clear that even if we went regional management, the Feds would STILL be setting the TAC....we wouldn't be getting any more days, the Feds would still be telling us how many DAS (days at sea) we would get....the only benefit would be that regional managers would be able to use them as they saw fit....

we would *still* have an 18-20 day snapper season (if LA is able to pull off an act of Congress yet)....Regions could split the season to every other weekend, or two weeks in the winter or whatever....

the regional managers would be tasked with stock assessments and enforcement, which will be expensive, but might not be a bad deal, because we could then do stock assessements as we see fit (i.e. include snapper around artificial structures, as the Feds do NOT currently).....

there are some fatal flaws with regional management as well, because the Gulf would STILL BE UNDER ONE TAC number.....it would cause a derby fishery between regions (NOTE: why do you think LA will be starting their snapper season in March while the rest of the Gulf has to wait until May? if LA hits it hard, they could take the entire Gulf's TAC before we get our first day at sea)...

lots of issues with Regionalization, so it doesn't surprise me that the GC tabled the issue...and you're correct Levelwind, I would have thought *someone* would have vetted Regionalization a little more before they scoped it....

all we can do here in February, is just wait and see how many days are left over after LA hits it.....
snookered


----------



## ophiodon (Aug 18, 2011)

The Council approved a motion to reduce the number of days in fed waters off of a state if that state goes nonconsistent with fed regs for red snapper. Based on 'anticipated' catch.

Example: TX catch = 2 days of 'fish' the fed waters would be open 25 days instead of 27 days


----------



## Snookered (Jun 16, 2009)

ophiodon said:


> The Council approved a motion to reduce the number of days in fed waters off of a state if that state goes nonconsistent with fed regs for red snapper. Based on 'anticipated' catch.
> 
> Example: TX catch = 2 days of 'fish' the fed waters would be open 25 days instead of 27 days


yes, pretty much just throwing down the gauntlet, daring the rest of the states to follow suit....egotistical move, as I see....they could have been working on a solution instead of determining the "sentence" in this "trial"....wrong direction, in my mind....

I guess "punishment" for each state is no more a tongue in cheek term; they're running with that scenario in an "official" capacity....flexing their muscles in front of LA trying to scare them....

let the non-compliance commence! (well, continue I suppose....and hey, we "started it")....

hope mom doesn't have to come in the back seat with a flyswatter to calm all the kids down...."don't make me pull this car over!"

LOL....sorry, a little Friday humor trying to make light of the situation....it actually really sucks....
snookered


----------



## hilton (Jan 28, 2008)

Roy put that in there in attempt to dissuade Louisiana from going non-compliant. Louisiana made its pitch to the GC early this week which was shot down - the LDWF Commission acted yesterday to implement their 90 day season anyway, in direct defiance of the GC and NMFS.

The first vote today to give Roy the power to shut down the fishery offshore of "non-compliant" states was defeated. They came back after lunch and reopened it and Pam Dana and Larry Abele reversed their votes so it then passed.

Seeing as how Dana and Abele are Florida reps, it looks as though pressure was applied in the hallways to reverse their position in an attempt to now dissuade Florida from going non-compliant. Alabama is making preparations to go non-compliant I believe.

It's time for all Texas recreational fishermen to stand together - private recs and charter captains, to show unity and strength. We should place pressure on our legislators to repeal 30B, which is unfair to recreational anglers fishing aboard charter vessels by denying them the ability to fish in state waters when federal season is closed - an arcane law that now, more than ever, needs to be axed, seeing as how we will have little to no federal snapper season.


----------



## capt4fish (Dec 4, 2004)

In the mean time......catch all the state snapper ya can.


----------



## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

> The first vote today to give Roy the power to shut down the fishery offshore of "non-compliant" states was defeated. They came back after lunch and reopened it and Pam Dana and Larry Abele reversed their votes so it then passed.


define the "shut down" part please, Tom.


----------



## trapper67 (Mar 23, 2011)

*More news...like a prize fight, round by round.....FINALLY*

Texas Parks and Wildlife Department Stunned by Gulf Council Snapper Vote
AUSTIN - In a stunning move today, the Gulf of Mexico Fishery Management Council voted to recommend an emergency rule that could shorten the recreational red snapper fishing season in federal waters off the Texas coast to as little as 11 days from the planned 27 day season.

The recommendation passed by a narrow majority, over strong opposition by representatives from Texas and Louisiana, including the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department, Louisiana Department of Wildlife and Fisheries, and a representative from the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission.

As recommended, the rule would give the National Marine Fisheries Service southeast regional administrator authority to shorten the snapper season in federal Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ) waters off Texas. State waters extend from the coast out to nine nautical miles.

"We are simply outraged by this move to penalize Texas anglers, local economies and fisheries for simply exercising our regulatory authority in Texas waters," said T. Dan Friedkin of Houston, Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission chairman. "This is not a recipe for a successful collaborative approach to fisheries management. I do not intend to stand idly by while Texas anglers are penalized by such egregious federal overreach."

TPWD leaders noted the unusual circumstances surrounding the emergency rule recommendation. This included how a vote for the rule failed 9 to 8 this morning, but backers of the rule persisted with a second vote after lunch, when the measure finally passed 10 to 7.

"This recommendation is clearly directed at Texas and it strikes me as more punitive and political, rather than biological, because state regulations in Texas waters have not mirrored those set by the Gulf Council in recent years," said Carter Smith, TPWD executive director. "This is not a victory for red snapper, but rather a loss for Texas anglers and coastal communities."

========================================================


----------



## hilton (Jan 28, 2008)

Mont,
I hope trapper's post clarifies my statement.

Kudos to TPWD for taking a stand to defend Texas recreational fishermen from this out of control federal agency that is attempting to usurp the 10th Amendment of the US Constitution.

This spells HOPE if and when the 5 Gulf states finally take a stand and fight this over-reach of authority.

This is the United *STATES* of America - not the United Federal Government of America.

Capt. Thomas J. Hilton


----------



## Mike Jennings (Oct 11, 2005)

That was a long week in Mobile. Public comment yesterday was ugly. Mont / Tom it won't shut us down unless the projected catch exceeds the allocation. I personally predict about 10 days for us. Now that is dependent on what FWC does next week . Is they decide to set a season outside the Fed season , it's all over. At this point it really doesn't seem to matter. The big question is where we go from here. Those 8.999999 mile snapper are still not worth the risk to me. 
Today's full council was an absolute cluster


----------



## trapper67 (Mar 23, 2011)

*This video belongs here*

Many thanks Mr Hilton. There is much wrong in this whole ordeal. I am not going to type what I think. Instead I want to post this video even though it has been on other threads..........Video is titled "our government at work"
http://www.local15tv.com/news/local...ds-of-Red/xj8T4zPamkOGc8fuT40W_Q.cspx?rss=217


----------



## hilton (Jan 28, 2008)

Cowboy,
I believe Alabama, MS, and maybe Florida will follow suit - I would not hold out hope for even 10 days unfortunately.

The TGBR sure looks like a good idea now, eh? I wish we could have pulled it off, now, more than ever.

Tom


----------



## Mike Jennings (Oct 11, 2005)

All bets are off for sure. I wouldn't disagree with any of that brother


----------



## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

Thanks for the blow by blow, guys. I sure wouldn't want to be on the bad side of Mr. Friedkin nor Mr. Smith. Roy best have a sack lunch packed. People are tired of Federal nonsense, including our fisheries management. The best way to get NMFS out of our State business is to cut off funding. The fish are losing, the fishermen are losing and from what I can tell the only reason Roy is still in business is to preserve their multimillion dollar yearly budget. It's time to cut the problem off at the root and removing their budget would be a good place to start.


----------



## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

bad laws are the worst sort of tyranny


----------



## spurgersalty (Jun 29, 2010)

Mont said:


> Thanks for the blow by blow, guys. I sure wouldn't want to be on the bad side of Mr. Friedkin nor Mr. Smith. Roy best have a sack lunch packed. People are tired of Federal nonsense, including our fisheries management. The best way to get NMFS out of our State business is to cut off funding. The fish are losing, the fishermen are losing and from what I can tell the only reason Roy is still in business is to preserve their multimillion dollar yearly budget. It's time to cut the problem off at the root and removing their budget would be a good place to start.


Forgive the ignorance, but who is Roy? Or is that an acronym. 
I hope to become part of the fleet this year and would like to be informed on what I "opine" about.
JR's been helping a good but, but I'm gonna burn his cell up to learn everything to know.


----------



## En Fuego (Jul 26, 2006)

*Who is Roy*

Spurgersalty - Roy Crabtree is the head of the NMFS and the lead turd in the Red Snapper debacle - hence a "Roy" has become a synonymous term used for out of control, self important douche bags who really serve no purpose but to try in vain to legitimize themselves. For example, the Sheriff in Smokey & the Bandit is a Roy, The Longhorn Network on ESPN is a Roy, Sen. Gloria Feinstein is a Roy, Tom Cruise is a Roy. Quannell X is a Roy. Donald Trump is a Roy. At times during this debate, I have been a Roy (although I am quite sure that Scott and Mike would be the first to jump to my defense and say that I am just an overly-passionate individual with genuine, but misguided intentions). This whole Red Snapper issue makes the blood boil of anyone who tries to apply common sense to a federal government controlled situation.


----------



## spurgersalty (Jun 29, 2010)

En Fuego said:


> Roy crabtree is the head of the NMFS and the lead turd in the Red Snapper debacle - hence a Roy is a synonymous term used for out of control douche bags. For example, the Sheriff in Smokey & the Bandit is a Roy, The Longhorn Network on ESPN is a Roy, Sen. Gloria Feinstein is a Roy, Tom Cruise is a Roy. At times during this debate, I have been a Roy (although I am quite sure that Scott and Mike would be the first to jump to my defense and say that I am just an overly-passionate individual with genuine, but misguided intentions). This whole Red Snapper issue makes the blood boil of anyone who tries to apply common sense to a federal government controlled situation.


Okay, its not an acronym, BUT, can be used as a synonym.
The devil in flesh basically.


----------



## En Fuego (Jul 26, 2006)

Not necessarily the Devil in the flesh, per se - think more like Neidermeyer from Animal House breeds with Judge Schmells from Caddyshack. Just a first-class power-hungry over-zealous douce with few, if any, redeeming qualities.


----------



## spurgersalty (Jun 29, 2010)

En Fuego said:


> Not necessarily the Devil in the flesh, per se - think more like Neidermeyer from Animal House breeds with Judge Schmells from Caddyshack. Just a first-class power-hungry over-zealous douce with few, if any, redeeming qualities.


So we'll nickname him Barrack Obama?
I'm just going off of your description in the previous post.


----------



## capt mike (Sep 8, 2005)

I believe the first thing we should do as Texans is to start contacting the TPand W Commisioners and ask them to terminate the joint law enforcement agreement with the Feds . It is obvious that battle lines have been drawn , we (Texas) should not be aligned or co-opted with the Feds in any form or fashion . God bless Texas !


----------



## fender bender (Mar 31, 2006)

"Wolverines"


----------



## hilton (Jan 28, 2008)

capt mike said:


> I believe the first thing we should do as Texans is to start contacting the TPand W Commisioners and ask them to terminate the joint law enforcement agreement with the Feds . It is obvious that battle lines have been drawn , we (Texas) should not be aligned or co-opted with the Feds in any form or fashion . God bless Texas !


Great point Capt!

I do not think that T. Dan Friedkin nor Carter Smith need any nudging in that regard.

It's time for ALL Gulf states to stand up for their constituents against this federal overreach of authority. The 5 states' attorneys general need to unite and stand together in a legal defense of this onslaught on our states' rights, our fishing rights and our fishing heritage.

Time to disband the NMFS and hand the reins of our fisheries management completely over to the States. The states can report and be held accountable to the Gulf Council to ensure overfishing does not occur.

It's past time to put an end to this madness.

Capt. Thomas J. Hilton


----------



## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

It's quite ironic that we have never been able to achieve regional management of Red Snapper but we can now have regional closures based on state lines. State by state for one part of "management" but not for another. Anyone smell that smell? Check your boots because we are now knee deep in it.


----------



## hilton (Jan 28, 2008)

Mont,
It's ALWAYS a one way street with the feds.


----------



## Swells (Nov 27, 2007)

Mont said:


> It's quite ironic that we have never been able to achieve regional management of Red Snapper but we can now have regional closures based on state lines. State by state for one part of "management" but not for another. Anyone smell that smell? Check your boots because we are now knee deep in it.


Whelp, let's look at what the TPWD did with commercial offshore shrimp. Not sure of the history but it was decades ago, and the TPWD asked to take over the shrimp openings and closings - still today, the TPWD says when opening day is, usually the first week of July. Texas was further divided into north and south regions, it was so large, and inshore versus offshore zones as well. For example the closest shrimping zone off here in SPI is called "S1."

Now work with me here, for some reason Texas got to tell the NMFS what to do about shrimping, depending on their own bottom trawls, surveys, and models. Hmmm. Game wardens and state biologists running the show here. Seems like we need red snapper handled the same way.

And our Texas Legislature is in Austin right now, with a drop-dead filing date for any new bills in early March. Has anobody bothered to ask our Representatives and Senators why the F we don't take over the reef fish just like we took over the shrimping?

The big thing is to get a budget - the poor TPWD has been cut so bad they're closing parks now. I would think that adding red snapper to our existing shrimp programs would cost about a million dollars a year, maybe more if you want really good biomass data. It all comes down to appropriations. M-o-n-e-y.

So we really don't want to say FU to the Southeast Regional NMFS Director, Dr. Roy Crabtree. We want part of his budget. With a sequester coming along, I bet Herr Doktor is freaking out already. Things are going to change. Follow the money. And talk to your state rep NOW. It's budget time.


----------



## willyhunting (Apr 21, 2006)

Sammy,

I think you are a little confused on the history of the closing of federal waters off Texas to shrimping. The Texas industry asked the Gulf council for the closure in 1979. It was done for the first time in '81 and ran concurrent of Texas state water closure. It has happened every year since with only a couple of years of it being less than 200 mile. The main reason for this was to avoid the waste of the resource due to Texas 67 count laws that had the effect of forcing shrimpers to shovel shrimp too small to land legally and caught out side of 9 miles during state water closure in Texas over board. When industry finally got the federal co-operative closure in place, TP&W did away with "minimum count laws".

Texas is the defacto lead in setting opening and closing as it does sampling to determine when shrimp have started migration out of the bays, which prompts the closure. The opening is generally set when the sampling offshore supports it, generally 60 days later.


----------



## Mike Jennings (Oct 11, 2005)

En Fuego said:


> At times during this debate, I have been a Roy (although I am quite sure that Scott and Mike would be the first to jump to my defense and say that I am just an overly-passionate individual with genuine, but misguided intentions). This whole Red Snapper issue makes the blood boil of anyone who tries to apply common sense to a federal government controlled situation.


HA! nobody's mad at ya ! the bad part about typed words on a forum is that they are usually taken in a manner that is way worse than they were intended . when i was picking at you with the whole ( How big a ole boy are ya comments) i was laughing as I was typing it. Sometimes laughter is all we have that keeps us from crying.

I think we have all typed things out of frustration on this issue that came across in a manner that wasn't intended.

So drive on there is only passion , overly-passionate is not possible when your trying to right a wrong.

Mike


----------



## Momma's Worry (Aug 3, 2009)

are the LA wardens going to part time for the FEDS after this? 

reason I ask was stopped 50ish miles out of Sabine last year by Louisiana wardens checking fish boxes only. The wardens were way out of there state waters and was told later that the FEDS pay them to go out into federal waters and check people

I was clean, and we talked more about the badass boat they were in more then anything else. I saw two other boats that day out on the water, huge waste of money for the wardens to be out there enforcing Federal regs.

exact same here X's two(I was 27 nm out south east Sabine Pass) when I got searched then asked to do a fish survey ,which I did not feel like doing after that..funny ain't it,no one in side 3 mls is doing anything wrong so they get paid good by the fed to roam the Gulf looking for bad guys.......so I asume the La wardens will have fun with this extra confusion...and snapper wars continue on forever. which side will ye take d law 
.....don't stand for Texas wardens to do the same as La.........


----------



## En Fuego (Jul 26, 2006)

The last time I saw Matt (one of the 3 Fed game Wardens on the Texas Coast) he was hitching a ride with the Texas Game Wardens on their boat - do the Feds have their own ride yet?

_Practicing safe filet and release since 2003!_


----------



## hilton (Jan 28, 2008)

You can probably throw any joint law enforcement agreements between the states and the feds out the window with the Council's latest action to enact regional punishment instead of regional management.

Here's an article on the subject;
http://www.louisianasportsman.com/details.php?id=4839

"Offshore anglers launching out of Louisiana can begin hauling in red snapper on March 24 this year - more than two months before the expected opening of the federal red snapper season in federal waters.

That's because a notice of intent to take Louisiana waters out of compliance with federal fishing regulations issued back in June has gone into effect, officials with the Louisiana Department of Wildlife & Fisheries' said today (Feb. 7). The Louisiana Wildlife and Fisheries Commission announced their intention in June to set a red snapper season that would begin March 24, with fishing allowed every Friday through Sunday thereafter in all state-controlled offshore waters.

The three-day-per-week state season will continue through September.

LDWF's Randy Pausina said today during the Commission's monthly meeting that the only thing standing in the way of that proposal going into effect was printing of the regs in the Louisiana Register, in which all regulations and laws must be published. That printing would happen this week, Pausina said.

The daily possession limit for the season will be three red snapper with a minimum length of 16 inches, Pausina said.

Historically, Louisiana's boundary extended only three miles into the Gulf of Mexico, but Commission members in June also passed a notice of intent to extend the boundaries of the state to three marine leagues (10.357 miles).

That action was based on 2011's Act 336, which recognizes that the Louisiana Gulf-ward boundary historically consists of three marine leagues and designates that boundary to be enforced by state law regarding the protection and restoration of coastal lands, waters and natural resources and regulation of activities affecting them.

However, there is some uncertainty about the commission's move, since a part of Act 336 states that the legislation will not go into effect until recognized by the U.S. Congress, which to date has not happened.

*Despite those questions, LDWF Secretary Robert Barham has said his agency's Enforcement Division would only enforce state laws within the three-league boundary.*

However, his agency warned fishermen to "use caution and their own personal judgment when fishing beyond the three-mile boundary that is currently recognized as federal waters, as it is fully expected that federal agents will continue to enforce federal law."


----------



## Swells (Nov 27, 2007)

Tom I don't see why Texas would be like Louisiana - the game wardens can do as they are trained to do what they do and currently they can enforce federal regs if the officer sees fit. I haven't head of any new enforcement policy here in Texas, have you? 

The difference? Texas has a legal maritime boundary of 9 nautical miles - Louisiana does NOT. Their natural resources boundary is 3 nautical miles as marked on a map back about 1957 or so. The purpose of the Louisiana legislation was to legalize off-season red snapper fishing between 3 and 9 miles. Of course that's a new thing, and since their game wardens work for the state, they have to follow that law.

So nothing changed here. Craptree has been recreational cutting red snapper days at sea as some kind of sport, ever since he took over. The enforcement is just the same-o' BS.


----------



## McDaniel8402 (Dec 7, 2011)

This might sound silly, but the thought crossed my mind. What would happen if the feds had no places to launch from? What would they do if state owned boat ramps were accessible by permit only, a permit that would not be issued to fed fisheries LE? What would happen if privately owned marinas created policy against allowing federal fisheries managment to be docked in their marinas? It would seem like some pretty creative ideas could be thought up if the states would band together and get behind a common battle cry. In the same way that the feds won't outlaw offshore fishing, but will restrict it to the point that some folks just throw in the towel and quit, policy could be put in place to make it ridiculously tough for federal fisheries management to go out and patrol the federal waters. It wouldn't be a permanent solution, but it may force the issue back onto the table and, in time, achieve a reasonable agreement between state and federal fisheries management.


----------



## hilton (Jan 28, 2008)

fwc just set a 44 day season - should REALLY start to get interesting.


----------



## spurgersalty (Jun 29, 2010)

hilton said:


> fwc just set a 44 day season - should REALLY start to get interesting.


Who is fwc?


----------



## trapper67 (Mar 23, 2011)

spurgersalty said:


> Who is fwc?


 Florida Wildlife Commission


----------



## SV_DuckBuster (Sep 18, 2007)

http://myfwc.com/


----------



## trapper67 (Mar 23, 2011)

hilton said:


> fwc just set a 44 day season - should REALLY start to get interesting.


 Yes, it should get very interesting indeed. Does this mean that FL will be considered NON-Compliant as well?


----------



## ophiodon (Aug 18, 2011)

yes. They will be inconsistent with Fed regs. So, that leaves what, MS and AL to make a move now?


----------



## Snookered (Jun 16, 2009)

ophiodon said:


> yes. They will be inconsistent with Fed regs. So, that leaves what, MS and AL to make a move now?


correct....however, with Dr. Shipps vote (twice!) to grant Crabtree unilateral "punishment powers", I'm wondering if they won't stay consistent with Federal regs in order to advance Regionalization.....Dr. Shipps was quoted the other day as to something to that effect....

still wondering about LA's expansion of state waters being recognized by Congress or not before the March 24th start of their "outlaw" season....

but yeah, 3 of 5 States now attempting to go non-compliant should be interesting....

where's that popcorn emoticon again? 
snookered


----------



## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

Tom can probably say exactly, but just looking at a chart, I would say about 90% of the Gulf Coast (by waterfront miles) is now non compliant. Considering the port of landing as the only criteria of where the snapper were caught should be equally interesting. I used to routinely run into LA waters to catch snapper and land them in Galveston.


----------



## Snookered (Jun 16, 2009)

Mont said:


> I would say about 90% of the Gulf Coast (by waterfront miles) is now non compliant.


Mont, did you see this latest twist coming? kind of interesting....

wondering if NMFS would attempt a pre-emptive closure based on projected non-compliance, i.e. if all States go non-compliant before LA starts on March 24th, would the Feds shave even more days off the Federal season? potentially all of them before we're even out of the chute? exactly what they've been threatening.....I mean, it seems like it's a race to get to a 0-day Federal season....
snookered


----------



## Momma's Worry (Aug 3, 2009)

state waters 3 or 10.3 off the beach...I have never caught a 16" plus red snapper in state waters from 180 south of Galveston to 180 south of Cameron........closest in was 17nm 180 from Sabine Pass....marked it and returned several times ,never did it again......plenty of dinks in this area but no legal anywhere....this area far as I am concirned is a waste of money if snapper is on the menue.......if the fed twists off over what Louisianna is doing it's just a power play in my view and has nothing about taking large numbers of snapper that are not there in the first place....not to mention I never see another rec fishing boat when I go out there......

When I see a fed warden he is always in the company of Tx wardens using their boat ..I was told by a Tx warden(Sabine Pass) that he will enforce all game laws (fish)LA,Fed,TX,so at Sabine you better know the laws......if in violation he will hold me till the proper authority shows up.....if I ever see a Tx warden patroling fed water ,enforcing fed regs(unlike La does) ..Ted Poe/John Otto is gonna get an ear full....I got a problem with that....as of last year it appears to be a max effort at enforcement at all points of enty all down the coast of Tex ....to stop and search all incoming boats.....on the week ends .....everyone coming in from the Gulf gets checked..is this a fed order?.......


----------



## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

Snookered said:


> Mont, did you see this latest twist coming? kind of interesting....
> 
> wondering if NMFS would attempt a pre-emptive closure based on projected non-compliance, i.e. if all States go non-compliant before LA starts on March 24th, would the Feds shave even more days off the Federal season? potentially all of them before we're even out of the chute? exactly what they've been threatening.....I mean, it seems like it's a race to get to a 0-day Federal season....
> snookered


I predicted the regulatory discards would exceed the TAC a long time ago. I would have to do some digging, but you could see this coming 5 or 6 years ago. It's kinda sad that it's actually going to happen. This will be the first year ever me and Dad won't go get some snaps.


----------



## Snookered (Jun 16, 2009)

Mont said:


> I predicted the regulatory discards would exceed the TAC a long time ago. I would have to do some digging, but you could see this coming 5 or 6 years ago. It's kinda sad that it's actually going to happen. This will be the first year ever me and Dad won't go get some snaps.


no reason to dig through old stuff to prove your point; I believe you Mont....

and why you can't hit some state water snaps?.....take Dad out and bend some rods......

Another reason you should take Dad, since we're losing Federal water snappers, might as well live up to the expected State statistics, right?
snookered


----------



## trapper67 (Mar 23, 2011)

Commission proposes 2013 Gulf recreational red snapper season in state waters

News Release
Wednesday, February 13, 2013
Media contact: Amanda Nalley, 850-410-4943
(Back to Commission meeting news)
The Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission (FWC) proposed a 44-day recreational red snapper season for Gulf of Mexico state waters at its meeting Feb. 13 in Orlando.
This season would start June 1 and end July 14. The proposed 2013 season is inconsistent with the current proposed federal season, which is currently expected to be about 27 days but may be shortened once state seasons in all Gulf state waters are finalized.
The Commission will make a final decision on this season at the April Commission meeting in Tallahassee.
While the federal limit for how many pounds of red snapper can be caught has increased, the season length has gotten shorter because of more fishing effort and larger fish, according to federal fishery managers.
After listening to public comment, the Commission chose to go inconsistent based on reports that the upcoming federal stock assessment would likely show red snapper populations are doing better than previously thought and reports from anglers that the fishery is improving and preference is to have a longer season.
The Commission also gave direction to FWC staff to look further into other long-term management options for red snapper.
For more on the proposal that was given to the Commission, visit MyFWC.com/Commission.


----------



## trapper67 (Mar 23, 2011)

*copied from THT*

Alabama Snapper update, sort of

Ok, so I have some good dialogue going with Bill Hightower. At least he is taking the time to engage me on the snapper issues.

I heard Bonner say this morning, that he is aware of the vid of the rig removal and he personally delivered a letter to the Sec of Interior asking them to stop and find another way.
At least he is aware and is giving it some attention. Now for the bomb:

He said legislature is going to be introduced to extend all GOM state waters to 15 nm!

Now I'm not holding my breath as it I cannot believe anything can get done in Washington these days, but at least that is a step in the right direction. Please take some time to write or email your representatives and let them know you fully support this and expect them to do the same.


----------



## crawfishking (Apr 23, 2007)

I fear that if the state waters are increased to 15 nm it will kill any chance of us getting control over a decent size area of the gulf. Lets face it, 15 miles out doesn't hold many keeper snapper in most areas of the coast line. Especially during the warmer months. If that kills any chance of us getting regional oversight of all the gulf waters off the Texas coast it will be a bad deal. Not that we had any chance of that to begin with but this current battle might have been pushing us closer. Plus, if that gave the entire gulf states access to more state waters wouldn't that give Crabtree more reason to shorten our seasons?


----------



## Aces Full (Aug 10, 2005)

Concerning regional management, we have already been told that NMFS will retain control over setting catch limits. They will also retain control over estimating effort and biomass. 

ACTUAL REGIONAL CONTROL WILL NEVER HAPPEN UNDER CURRENT LAWS!!!!

Extend state waters to the 200 mile line is the only way.


----------



## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

Snookered said:


> and why you can't hit some state water snaps?.....take Dad out and bend some rods......


I fish exclusively out of Galveston these days. There are red snapper as close in as the end of the jetties and my kid caught one last year on the north jetty. It's posted on his FB page. By the time it lays down enough to make a trip enjoyable (the first two weeks of August come to mind), most of the better snapper are at least 45 miles out, and closer to 65 miles.

As totally and completely screwed up as this current situation is, I don't think that saying I caught RS inside of 9 miles in August is the right way to handle it. Each person can make their own choices in this situation. Mine is to not fish it. Period. There's plenty enough to keep me busy inside of 9 miles. Roy can have his Federal waters, his asinine emergency rule(s) and I will spend my time, money and effort elsewhere. If that statement costs me my seat on the RSAP, it only further proves my point that he's out of control and so is his organization.


----------



## Tom Andrews (Jun 7, 2006)

California enforces their limit and regulations out 150 miles and writes tickets for fishing in Mexican waters without a license or permits.Never have I seen or heard of any federal enforcement and the snapper fishing there is as bad as it gets.Hawaii has no license requirments and sport caught fish including marlin can be sold at market prices which I have been told is against some federal law.. The bottom fishery has been decimated and the feds are circling there and locals are up in arms.Point is there seems to a lot of conflicts regarding juristiction on the federal level and so far no one I have talked with has the answer. Anyone?


----------



## Snookered (Jun 16, 2009)

Aces Full said:


> Concerning regional management, we have already been told that NMFS will retain control over setting catch limits. They will also retain control over estimating effort and biomass.
> 
> ACTUAL REGIONAL CONTROL WILL NEVER HAPPEN UNDER CURRENT LAWS!!!!


as Ed McMahon used to say to Johnny Carson, "You are correct, sir!"

I hear you Mont....its a tough situation for a lot of people.....
snookered


----------



## spurgersalty (Jun 29, 2010)

Mont said:


> I fish exclusively out of Galveston these days. There are red snapper as close in as the end of the jetties and my kid caught one last year on the north jetty. It's posted on his FB page. By the time it lays down enough to make a trip enjoyable (the first two weeks of August come to mind), most of the better snapper are at least 45 miles out, and closer to 65 miles.
> 
> As totally and completely screwed up as this current situation is, I don't think that saying I caught RS inside of 9 miles in August is the right way to handle it. Each person can make their own choices in this situation. Mine is to not fish it. Period. There's plenty enough to keep me busy inside of 9 miles. Roy can have his Federal waters, his asinine emergency rule(s) and I will spend my time, money and effort elsewhere. If that statement costs me my seat on the RSAP, it only further proves my point that he's out of control and so is his organization.


Okay, another question. RSAP?


----------



## crawfishking (Apr 23, 2007)

Aces Full said:


> Concerning regional management, we have already been told that NMFS will retain control over setting catch limits. They will also retain control over estimating effort and biomass.
> 
> ACTUAL REGIONAL CONTROL WILL NEVER HAPPEN UNDER CURRENT LAWS!!!!
> 
> Extend state waters to the 200 mile line is the only way.


Mr. Full of Aces, this is exactly the point I was trying to make. If we get an act of congress to extend our waters to 15nm then the politicians will think they've really done something for us and then move on. Think about it, the $#/t has been hitting the fan for 6 years now and we haven't got anything done.

Lets face it, we are a TINY minority of the population. If they buy us off with this 15 nm boundary we've lost.

Nice looking boat BTW.


----------



## spurgersalty (Jun 29, 2010)

Snookered said:


> yes, and I attended the scoping meeting in Corpus Christi.....the moderators made it abundantly clear that even if we went regional management, the Feds would STILL be setting the TAC....we wouldn't be getting any more days, the Feds would still be telling us how many DAS (days at sea) we would get....the only benefit would be that regional managers would be able to use them as they saw fit....
> 
> we would *still* have an 18-20 day snapper season (if LA is able to pull off an act of Congress yet)....Regions could split the season to every other weekend, or two weeks in the winter or whatever....
> 
> ...


I had read this before, can someone tell me why they don't? If anyone know.


----------



## Snookered (Jun 16, 2009)

spurgersalty said:


> I had read this before, can someone tell me why they don't? If anyone know.


I swear I had heard Dr. Shipps say that or read it somewhere as well, but if you think about it, it's more of a _de facto_ statement; currently NOAA (and it's third party contractors) use trawls and longlines to do the snapper stock assessment.....while they are doing some acoustic tagging studies near artificial reefs, the two methods currently employed are limited in including artificial reefs by simple boating; typically you would want to avoid artificial structure with both trawls and lines....

unless they're wrapping a longline around a rig, LOL....

but good point, looks like I need to hunker down and do a little more homework before I make claims like that without having that paper by my side....thanks spurger
snookered


----------



## Aces Full (Aug 10, 2005)

crawfishking said:


> Mr. Full of Aces, this is exactly the point I was trying to make. If we get an act of congress to extend our waters to 15nm then the politicians will think they've really done something for us and then move on. Think about it, the $#/t has been hitting the fan for 6 years now and we haven't got anything done.
> 
> Lets face it, we are a TINY minority of the population. If they buy us off with this 15 nm boundary we've lost.
> 
> Nice looking boat BTW.


Agreed!

I also agree that right now, we really are an insignificant voice whispering like a little hoarse sick kid in the corner at Chucky Cheese on a rainy Saturday afternoon in the middle of a cold brutal winter...no one can hear us until we get united and speak together with one voice. I seriously doubt we could all gather up enough and get unified enough for someone to recognize us singing happy birthday.

Until we join under one roof for a united cause we will continue on this path. We need those guys that claim their fish aren't being attacked to join. We need the marlin and sword, YFT and king gurus to understand that it's coming their way too soon. I feel we're not even close yet.

I'm gonna send my email to Robin Riechers. I'm gonna write my email to the Council and ask Charlene to forward to all members. I'm going to do my part. Hope everyone else will step up soon.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## chuck richey (May 22, 2004)

Aces Full said:


> Agreed!
> 
> I also agree that right now, we really are an insignificant voice whispering like a little hoarse sick kid in the corner at Chucky Cheese on a rainy Saturday afternoon in the middle of a cold brutal winter...no one can hear us until we get united and speak together with one voice. I seriously doubt we could all gather up enough and get unified enough for someone to recognize us singing happy birthday.
> 
> ...


Been doing the email and all the other bs for years. Did not matter at all how many sent in there respones...... Roy had already made his mind up and no one was gonna change it. I will send them in again and I hope that with all of the other States following Texas maybe something will change. Not holding my breath but atleast things are changing. I will fish one way or the other snapper or not. But still just burns me up how some can fish and sell them year around, some want to be paid to take people out year around and make money while the rest of us just pick up the crumbs that are left to put in our freezer for our own kitchen with such a short season. But we will see what happens. Hope it changes but not expecting much at this point.


----------



## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

> But we will see what happens. Hope it changes but not expecting much at this point


History repeats itself, so my guess would be there will be short term and long term consequences.

Short term, expect the guys that run charters to go broke. Most of them run on very small margins anyways, and this will likely be the tipping point.

Long term, expect the guys holding the right to fish their poundage any time they wish to offer that up for sale to the recreational side. Let's face it, paying wholesale for fish for a rec is either going to be added to the charter price or to the boat owner's tab and it becomes just another expense. Who cares if it's built into the bill, right? Fuel is currently done that way, either split among the guys on the boat or paid separately in the price of the charter. Say I want to go get 100 pounds of snapper and it adds $350 to the price of a trip. Big deal. Fuel is already there price wise, if not more. The boat note or the charter are already both way more money. So, it adds another expense among many others.

What sucks in all this is the fish lose. That's the real downer. Anyone that doesn't think this new brainstorm of Roy's isn't going to skyrocket already high discard rates isn't seeing what I see out there. It's also going to be a nightmare for enforcement. Let's face it, most guys on that side fish too. Hell, they are out there in boats which is something no one from Roy's office ever is. Those guys on the water know the score and it's going to be making them enforce something they probably think about as much of as the rest of us fishermen do.

At any rate, I wish everyone the best with whatever side of this mess you may be on. One thing we all (seem to) agree on is that the current system is badly broken and it's getting worse by the day.


----------



## spurgersalty (Jun 29, 2010)

Mont said:


> History repeats itself, so my guess would be there will be short term and long term consequences.
> 
> Short term, expect the guys that run charters to go broke. Most of them run on very small margins anyways, and this will likely be the tipping point.
> 
> ...


Forgive me, as I haven't payed real close attention to this...but, has the sector separation passed?
I read it was a possibility but didn't folow it much as I didn't do any offshore fishing, so, it didn't pertain to me.
Just trying to catch up.
BTW, consider me in tha' group now.......please


----------



## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

spurgersalty said:


> Forgive me, as I haven't payed real close attention to this...but, has the sector separation passed?
> I read it was a possibility but didn't folow it much as I didn't do any offshore fishing, so, it didn't pertain to me.
> Just trying to catch up.
> BTW, consider me in tha' group now.......please


The commercial sector has always been separated and they fish under an allocation of pounds that they can fish whenever they want. They can also lease or sell it to anyone else, but that's currently restricted to other commercial fishermen. I don't expect that to last very long considering they could sell it to recs and never put a line in the water and make more money. I have great deal of respect for their level of organization and they key players on that side are both good fishermen along with being smart businessmen. Business is business and money talks.


----------



## spurgersalty (Jun 29, 2010)

Okay, thanks Mont. I guess I was confusing the CFH and recs separation which I think i had read about in the "Conservation/Crossfire Issues forum"
Edit:just re-read your thoughts in post #84, I think I'm starting to understand a little better.


----------



## Gluconda (Aug 25, 2005)

You left the eyes! 












Swells said:


> Shhh, we don't want a NMFS enforcement boat down here.
> 
> This is what a STATE red snapper looks like.


----------



## primofish.com (Feb 11, 2006)

*Mississippi is heading in the same direction*

http://www.sunherald.com/2013/03/21/4543027/bryant-signs-bill-extending-mississippi.html


----------



## primofish.com (Feb 11, 2006)

*Mississippi is heading in the same direction*

http://www.sunherald.com/2013/03/21/4543027/bryant-signs-bill-extending-mississippi.html


----------

