# Synthetic Offroad 18 track at M&M



## danthrc (Jun 19, 2007)

Hey guys, I spoke with Meir at M&M and got the green light on building an outdoor "synthetic" off road track dedicated to 18th scale. No, not synthetic like in a b**b job, but just meaning "no dirt"
We explored dirt, but it does two things. Created a maintenance nightmare, kills the action when it rains, and (most of all) gets the cars to dirty and creates more "at home maintenance" Ok, it was three things.

I see a track with the layout painted on like the onroad track. A nice barrier system with all of the jumps covered in the brown, or green outdoor turf. Each jump would have a landing ramp, with a trailing piece of the turf running down the lane to cushion the landing should you over shoot the landing. I see a rythm section that you could hit each separate, double one and single the last two, or go for a double double; I see a possible high banked burm to lead into a long speed straight. I see elevated sections, and all kinds of ideas.

This track would be built next to the existing onroad track with a small drivers stand (similar to what we use at Treys) between the two tracks, to be used for the off road section. The area is about 35 feet deep by almost 90 feet wide. 35 Feet would give us about about 5 lanes deep at 6' per lane. 

I think it could be really cool, and with the traffic at M&M it would for sure get more folks into the smaller (affordable) scales, which would in turn, help the entire effort, both at Treys, M&M, and at Randy's.

Ok how do we do it:

I figure it will take somewhere around $300 to build the track, jumps, etc. M&M would not be investing in this effort, and that is the way I approached it. Our track, our way.
So, I was thinking of a few ideas and I want to hear yours. 
1st, I was thinking of getting racers to invest up to $40 toward the track. In turn you would get a free race coupon for as many $10 increments you donate. So when we start racing, you race free for payback. $40 = 4 races. These free race coupons could be used on the onroad weekends, or the off road races.
Or, (same scenario) get racers to invest within a comfortable range for themselves and then hold a fundraiser race when its complete, to accelerate a payback to the investors.
One thing, I have confirmed is that when racing starts, 100% of the race fees will go toward paying for the track.

I run the races at M&M and like the onroad track, I personally buy things like brooms, lane sealer, pipe, etc. and take the money out of race fees, and give M&M my receipts.
When all is clear, I split 50 - 50 with M&M for my efforts. This would be the same for the off road. However, paying for the new track would be the first priority.

Okay when do we race.
Well, I say get it built first. We are coming up on the fall in about 2.5 months. It will be here before you know it. We would just have to work it out between, Treys off road indoor program, and the outdoor onroad program. Either way, it would be a great place to practice and have some fun at any time, any day.

So think hard on what you would like to see. The sky is the limit on this. I just want it to look good, be fun, and attract new racers. Not to mention, if it rains, we can race on it within minutes if its a sunny day with showers.


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

I'll pitch in $40, not ask anything in return, and I'll even help you build it.....just say the word! I'm LOVING the 1/18 off road racing, and have wished many times that I had somewhere to go since HIRCR is limited to 1 day per 2 weeks. 

I have some suggestions:

1-look for a material that we could literally squeegie off if it got wet. I think carpet will take too long to dry

2-build it with with the obstacles modular so you can change up the track

3-make a BIG ARSE sign that says for electric mini/micro RC ONLY! I can just see somebody picking up an rtr T-maxx, walking outside, and tearing up that track


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## danthrc (Jun 19, 2007)

Will do all of that.

There is available wood at M&M for the jump frames. The main thing that would have to be purchased would be the plywood for surfaces and the turf/carpet. The stuff I have in mind would squeegie off as you suggested. Maybe some supplimental wood screws, nails, and glue.

Modular is exactly what I had in mind.

On building it... I have all sorts of air nailers, brad, staplers, and power saws that would make the job easier.


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## Gary (May 21, 2004)

Im in..


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

how soon are you talking about getting started? got a busy schedule at the moment, but I can always squeeze in a day.


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## danthrc (Jun 19, 2007)

It will be at least 2-3 weeks. I want to figure a pretty accurate cost, get a feel for materials available, work on a layout etc. I will be planning and posting for comment.


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## cjtamu (Sep 22, 2004)

I'm in, but I have a couple questions. First, when you say "paying for the track is first priority" what are you talking about? If we get race fees back for donating, haven't we already been paid back for the track? Are we paying M&M a fee for the track or are you talking about on-going things like sealers, maintenance, etc? I don't care, I just want to be clear so I don't have to listen to squawking later, LOL. Second, if the stand is b/w the on and off-road tracks, why not run on and off the same day? We might get some on-road guys to run off-road that way and vice versa. It also avoids conflicts with Mobility's races, b/c those would be the weekends that there's no 1/18 at M&M. Turf will be great, you can even use a wet/dry vac on the water. Not sure about the wear though. My 18T was full of little rubber pieces after we ran on the Texans practice field.


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## danthrc (Jun 19, 2007)

On the track pay back, it just means that no matter how or what happens, people who invest in getting the track up and running will be paid back first. Weather it be "race coupons" or if they just want cash back. I'm willing to work it any way.
If things work out perfect and eveyone wants to invest using race coupons, then your right, theres no "pay back first" scenario.
No track fees will be paid to M&M other than the 50 -50 split that I normaly do. This is ONLY AFTER the track expenses are clear.
Running both together is a great idea, I just need to figure out how to do it with two loops. It should be doable.
Wet/dry vac will work too. I have one.


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## cjtamu (Sep 22, 2004)

Coolio. Call me when the temps drop 15 deg and we'll get to work, LOL.


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## AHR43 (Aug 21, 2006)

*AHR43 "dirty" message*

Hey Dan,

We're in for $40. We'd like to get back into the "dirt" without the "dirt" - b/w RC drag racing stints. What a concept. The novelty of trying it alone is worth $40.

How can we help? Retired here. We can help with track assembly and/or setup. Let us know as you flesh this out.

//AC//


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## Gary (May 21, 2004)

HEY AC!  Missed ya bro!


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## AHR43 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Team AHR43 informal reply*



Gary said:


> HEY AC!  Missed ya bro!


Yo Biff. Thanks. Lurking around. This sounds like a hoot. We thinks Dan has the credibilty, experience and resources to pull it off. Thanks to M&M for 'thinking-out-of-the-box' sufficiently to give Dan a shot. We be in.

//AC//


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## Gary (May 21, 2004)

AHR43 said:


> Yo Biff. Thanks. Lurking around. This sounds like a hoot. We thinks Dan has the credibilty, experience and resources to pull it off. Thanks to M&M for 'thinking-out-of-the-box' sufficiently to give Dan a shot. We be in.
> 
> //AC//


You got a 18th scaler?

Edit: Check your PMs.


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## gkcontra (Feb 25, 2007)

Hey Danny,
Count me in for 40 as well.
Greg


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## danthrc (Jun 19, 2007)

Fantastic.... Even more cool is the "community" effort on this. I will do most of the physical work, and will welcome help.
First thing out of the box is to get a layout on paper and then get it painted on the ground. That part is very easy and quick.
Then we build jumps and other features then install them.


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## PD2 (Jul 1, 2005)

Hey Danny!

Well, I'm not racing and really have ZERO time to, but if everyone knows me, I like to keep this hobby going (even if I'm doing other hobbies right now). So count me in for a donation as well - just PM me with where to send it. As far as pay back I'll let you figure that out.

Great idea and glad to see Meir is allowing you to get creative enough to come up with some of these things. Let me know when you start raising the capital to build a building around those two indoor tracks. 

PD2


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## danthrc (Jun 19, 2007)

The phase 1 plan is to take exact measurements this Saturday at the race, and get a layout on paper.
Once that is done, we can go ahead and paint the layout down, and apply the sealer to the lanes.
I can paint the layout down and seal it in one afternoon/evening after work. I wouldn't mind getting that knocked out sometime next week.


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## danthrc (Jun 19, 2007)

Got measurements today and it looks like we have a track box of 30' deep X 60' wide. That will give us 5 lanes deep.

Question/Opinion: I'm thinking about a flowing track (not so much quick left and right) with some timing jumps, elevations, and a focus on timing and jumping skills. I want to do a gate that will start the race from an elevated position. 
Lanes look to be 6' wide.

So let me know what you think about the layout being non technical, but the jumps being crazy and creative with lots of them.


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## Guffinator (Aug 27, 2005)

Hrmm. I'm not sure Danny. Perhaps you should draw out an idea and post it so people can kick it around a bit.


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## nik77356 (Jun 8, 2007)

i like the non technical idea with lots of crazy jumps.


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## Donnie Hayden (Mar 7, 2005)

Jumps are good. Thats what makes off-road racing fun!


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

big air is what draws people in......I say go for it.....it's your track to build. Don't ask us too many questions on this forum, or you'll get too many answers!


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## cjtamu (Sep 22, 2004)

Big air isn't what these little cars are all about. Electric cars are about timing, placement, and precision. I like flowing tracks, but I don't want jumps that throw my car 5' in the air. I'm with Guff, I'd like to see layout ideas.


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

see what I mean Danny?.....you'll get two people saying go for it, and two people opposing it.......

you've got the experience.....you build what you want to build!


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## Big Phil (Apr 27, 2007)

i am sure he wants everyones input i know i do when i build a layout it helps.


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## Donnie Hayden (Mar 7, 2005)

In the Rocks voice "IT DOSENT MATTER WHAT YOU THINK CHRIS"

LOL


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

*Debate!*



cjtamu said:


> Big air isn't what these little cars are all about. Electric cars are about timing, placement, and precision. I like flowing tracks, but I don't want jumps that throw my car 5' in the air. I'm with Guff, I'd like to see layout ideas.


I feel like I need to preface what I say now because I don't want people to think I'm arguing, so I'm saying this for legitimate debate:

I disagree CJ. 1/10 electric is very precise and is very much about timing, but the manufactures are building these 1/18 cars SPECIFICALLY to mimic 1/8 buggy & truggy......just look at the proportions of the wheels, suspension, etc.

That said, my suggestion would be to make the track a scaled down version of a track for 1/8 off-roading.....and that means there will need to be some pretty good sized jumps.....otherwise it will seem to much like on-road to the on-lookers who might be interested.

Again, just my 2 cents!

And, your right Phil, I shouldn't have suggested to Danny to listen to no-one, but rather to limit the input he asks for. Danny has logged enough time at HIRCR to know what 1/18 off-roaders are looking for, so I trust that he will take the good ideas and expand on them.


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## Donnie Hayden (Mar 7, 2005)

PLUS, Wouldnt it defeat the purpose of having a off-road track? The on-road track has all the free flowing you need.


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## gkcontra (Feb 25, 2007)

I am also leaning towards the wanting bigger jumps here than at HIRCR. I like what trey has going on and love racing the track there, I just think this one should have a different setup. After seeing the jumping after races at trey's, these things are pretty indestructable, and some nice jumps are in order.

Also, to combine what cj and cv are saying, if you have a nice long section with say 5 ramps, the timing is there fo cj to decide double, double single, or go big as cv would have it and go triple,double. That is the way I am thinking right now, open it up with jumps, but make it work both ways.

Greg


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

I WANNA TURN UP THE BRUSHLESS TO 100% AND CATCH SOME FREAKIN' AIR!!! (but I want a landing ramp too!!!)

Yeah, I think you've got the right idea Greg. Have we met? Are you coming to Trey's next weekend?


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## gkcontra (Feb 25, 2007)

Unfortunately we seem to make it on opposite weeks. 

I am doing all I can to make it to M&M tomorrow and will definitely be at Trey's next week.


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## danthrc (Jun 19, 2007)

All good.... Think of it this way. The olympic ski jumpers. Those guys catch some big air but in reality, they are not that far off of the ground during the entire flight.
I see the same thing here. We have brushless and I want to open them up too. I don't want to break cars at all. So you can build some pretty awesome stuff and design it so that if its driven right, its fun, looks cool, uses speed and gets lots of air, and nothing gets broken. You always have the ones that are going to go banzi after it and they will break stuff.
Like CV said, it should be like an 1/8 scale off road track in nature, and that is what I see too.
On the front strait, all 60' will be set up with a series of 4 jumps, maybe 5 (with landing ramps) so that your options will be many, like (4 singles) (double double) (tripple somewhere if you got the 8000)
On the back stretch, its all flat out speed to open the brushless up. But at the end of the straight there is a ramp (not a jump) that elevates the track to about 4.5 feet and leads in to a 90 degree turn and comes back down to the infield. You will have to drive it, or you will end up jumping into the Advantage Auto Parts parking lot next door. lol. (yes there will be a catch net for the banzi guys)
The infield will be many variations of jumps like lob jumps, a whoops section that will be more like low profile random spaced mogles instead of sharp obsticles. 
The track will keep you thinking all the way around with a combination of room, speed, and options regarding the jumps.
The jumps will be modular so they can be moved around to change up the layout when needed.
The great thing is. No matter what we do, we can always change it to make it better for everyone.


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## danthrc (Jun 19, 2007)

GK... tommorow if its rained out, some of us are going up anyway to work on our stuff and run on the carpet in the back room for fun (AC will be on). We are also going to discuss the off road project too. So come on out even if it rains we will be there in the back room.


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## Guffinator (Aug 27, 2005)

Big jumps don't scare me, but I'm all about a "driver's track".
True it is Danny's to build, but I can't see how getting many different views, styles and input is a bad thing.


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## danthrc (Jun 19, 2007)

Work starts on the off road track this coming Wednesday at 5pm. It will be preliminary stuff but we will be officially starting the process then.
All input is welcome, especially if you want to come out in person.


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## nik77356 (Jun 8, 2007)

i would like to come out. when will yall start building jumps and the such?


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## danthrc (Jun 19, 2007)

jumps are a few weeks away


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## Guffinator (Aug 27, 2005)

Sorry Danny, no way I can make it during the week.


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## cjtamu (Sep 22, 2004)

Lemme see what I can do Danny. Thursdays are usually a good day for me. Wednesdays are good once the school year starts.


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## danthrc (Jun 19, 2007)

For now its okay. We are just going to mark out the lane grid, and probably put together the track box.
Nothing major at this point.


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## gkcontra (Feb 25, 2007)

I'll be there , do you need me to bring anything?


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## danthrc (Jun 19, 2007)

No need to bring anything. Everything we need at this point will be there


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## danthrc (Jun 19, 2007)

Okay guys, I have priced all the materials for making jumps and the price of wood is rediculous. We need to build these jumps to last, and to be sturdy enough to walk on.

The designs that I have come up with are going to utilize treated 2x12 main braces. One 10' length will make 1.3 jumps for the general jumps. I plan on putting in one 10' table top jump, and one 10' step up jump.

Each jump will have to be decked with 3/8" decking plywood.

Each jump will be covered with the brown outdoor turf that has a rubber base.

There will be need for several small 2x4 materials for bracing etc. This material is mostly already out there. Its piled up under the onroad drivers stand.

Here is the damage on the wood for jumps:

Treated - 2x12x10' = $18.00 each
Plywood - 4x8 = $14.00 each
Turf - already at 6' width = $2.58 per linier foot

Utilizing every inch of wood in the design to have several general jumps, one table top, and one step up, we are going to be looking in the $800.00 range for this project. So that throws my $300.00 theory out the window. I had no idea wood was that expensive.

Keeping in mind the same plan, to give a free race ticket per $10 increment of a donation, I have a few guys who have offered $100.00. That will help. Several of you have offered $40.00 which will help too.

We are planning on putting the black surface down this Wednesday after 5pm. The track box is in place, and Meir is going to have his maintenance guy paint the pipe. We have decided to coat the entire surface with the black polymer sealer and designate the lanes with the extra 4" pipe that M&M has on site. They will paint it yellow for us, and I am looking for some old plow disks to attach to the ends of the pipe at the 180's. This way, we can change the layout from time to time.

There is enough wood on site to build the drivers stand so we are good to go on that too. In fact, we are basically using materials that are already in place not counting the sealer, and the wood needed for the jumps.

I would like to start building some of the jumps on the 18th. since we will not be racing onroad out at M&M that day.

I will keep a log of expenses for materials to build the jumps on the THRC website, when it comes back up.

Whoever wants to invest in this track, now is the time to start getting it together. Our first run to Home depot for major materials will be just before the 18th. I want to build and complete at least a few of the general jumps on that day to test launch angles, and jump distance, before we start cutting up wood to build the other jumps. That info will help with the design too.

The plan would be to have the track complete by the first part of September, with racing starting the very first part of October. The weather should be very nice by then.

Let me know if you have any questions about anything.


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## Big Phil (Apr 27, 2007)

why do you need 2x12's? It seem's like overkill.


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## danthrc (Jun 19, 2007)

The 2x12's are the main beams in the jumps. For instance.

I take one 10' 2x12 and cut it in half to make 2 - 5' peices.
I take one 5' lenght and cut from the center to the bottom edge on both sides. This makes a pyramid. It is also one of three ribs that have to make up the 6' width. One on each side and one down the middle.
The 12' of the 2x12 is the height of the jump. The angle from the center to the bottom (2.5') is your launch angle. The left over from the cut and be fastened together to form another pyramid but instead of being a one piece like the first one, I am utilizing all the wood to put together another one out of the cuts.

For a table top, I take the entire 10' length and cut an angle (launch and landing) 2.5 or 3' foot from either end. It takes 3 of them. Then you brace it, deck it, carpet it and you have a 10' long table top with a launch and a landing.

Follow me?

The 2x12's are the foundation of the jumps. They have to be sturdy enough for kids running all over them when were not there.


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## Big Phil (Apr 27, 2007)

danthrc said:


> The 2x12's are the foundation of the jumps. They have to be sturdy enough for kids running all over them when were not there.


Thats all you had to say.Now i get it safety!


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

count me in for the $40 that I originally said I would give.......I can give you the money on the 18th while we're at the HARC race.

I can give more, I just gotta wait until next month til the RC fund grows a little more.


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## Ronnie Norris (Jul 14, 2005)

big phil-

to bad they dont have any home depot or lowes cards.................lmfaooooooooo


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## nik77356 (Jun 8, 2007)

if we have a big race for the kids for a grand opening im sure we could work it to where we could get a donation from lowes or home depot for wood


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## Ronnie Norris (Jul 14, 2005)

only phil knows what i'm talking about


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