# Hand tied leaders ??



## Popperdave (Jul 9, 2016)

I'm not happy with the commercial knotless tapered leaders, thet are too soft to turn over large saltwater flies. So i was planning to get into tying my own leaders. I know there are a lot of formulas for getting the right taper. My question is what materials ( brand) do you use, mono and flourocarbon? I'm looking for a fairly stiff leader to turn over large flies. 
If you have special formula you like that would be great also. I like the tippet to be 12lb.


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## Bayoutalker (Jun 30, 2012)

I tried tying some of my own from info from one of the forums. I haven't tried fishing them yet but I really don't like having the knots. I'll hold off on final judgment until I get to fish them though. 

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


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## karstopo (Jun 29, 2009)

I tie my own as I donâ€™t like the limp knotless ones. 

Iâ€™ve use about 5-6 feet of 30# or 40# fluorocarbon leader material for the butt section. Then a mid-section of something a little smaller in diameter, then another mid section or the tippet. You donâ€™t want the sections to be too dissimilar in diameter just for the blood knot to seat well. 

It might go 5/3/3 or 5/2/2/3 feet on the sections. I just eyeball the measurements. Main thing is to have 5 or 6 feet of a stiff butt section. If you have grass where you fish, trim the blood knot tag ends close and put a little bead of UV cure on the knot to smooth it so Grass wonâ€™t catch on it. 

I perfection loop the leader butt to the welded loop of the line. Iâ€™ve never had one bust on a fish. The weakest link will be the tippet.

Hi seas, Seaguar, Vanish fluorocarbon, it all works.


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## Bird (May 10, 2005)

I have been using Scientific Anglers hard mono tapered leaders with 16 or 20lb tippets. No problems turning over big Kwans and puffy crab patterns. I do tie my own every now and then using 40, 30 and 20 lb mono. Only 10% of the total length is tippet. Using about 70% of the length as butt section helps transfer the energy from the line to those big flies.


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## karstopo (Jun 29, 2009)

https://midcurrent.com/techniques/making-a-redfish-leader/

Another leader formula from MidCurrent and Chico Fernandez.

https://loonoutdoors.com/products/uv-knot-sense

This stuff can smooth over leader knots and add a feeling of security.


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## MarkA70 (May 3, 2011)

Hand tied mine for several years. Finally had enough and stopped: 1. Knots caught grass like crazy, sometimes one knot and sometimes many of them. 2. Cost, the amount of money I spent on expensive flour is (was) insane. Just me but I stopped the time and money just not worth it!


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## karstopo (Jun 29, 2009)

https://www.tackledirect.com/hi-seas-fluorocarbon-leader-50-yd-cfc-b50-12.html

50 yards of 12# fluorocarbon leader for $10. 15# is $11.00. 50 yards will last a long time. And unlike nylon monofilament, fluorocarbon never goes bad in the heat or sun.


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## Permit Rat (May 13, 2014)

I used to always tie my own leader tippets and had a permanent butt section of 3' of 40 lb., nail-knotted first to the fly line, and then to 2 1/2 ft. of 30 lb. Then I made the smallest possible perfection loop in the 30. At home I tied tippets while watching TV. with 1 1/2 ft. of 20 lb.; 1 ft. of 15 and 1 ft. of 12 lb. That's about 8 1/2 feet. Then I added about 2 ft. of 10 lb. tippet. Put another small perfection loop in the 20 lb. and all you do, is loop-to-loop the tippet to the leader butt. That gives a 10 1/2 ft leader, with enough extra tippet to tie on a few flies and still have 10 ft. I've never seen the need for a longer leader, and in fact, my permit leaders were much shorter. Hint: Tie the perfection loops in the 30 and 20 lb. before you measure these out for tying in to the leader. Also, don't be afraid to play a little with varying lengths here and there, to suit your particular needs.


Also don't see the need for fluoro, at least here in Texas. Hell, we never even had it available when I was in the Keys, and we caught fish just fine. Mono sinks better to boot.


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## karstopo (Jun 29, 2009)

http://www.masontackle.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=127

Mason Hard nylon makes a good leader material. Stiff is generally good in leaders.

https://north40flyshop.com/blog/does-tippet-material-matter-nylon-tippet-vs-fluorocarbon-tippet/

Like anything else in fly fishing, thereâ€™s a ton of conflicting ideas about materials and techniques. No doubt either nylon or fluorocarbon will work.

Why do I typically choose fluorocarbon? I can leave the spool in the sun or in a hot truck or garage for days, months or years and never worry that UV light or the heat or moisture weakened it. I never think about how old the fluorocarbon is or where it was stored. 100 hours of sunlight will weaken Nylon up to 20 percent. Another 100-200 hours can knock off another 20 percent. I had some older, but not ancient twenty pound nylon mono leader out in the garage that I could easily break with pulling on it just with my hands. What, no way that would ever happen with fluorocarbon.

So after 10-20 trips out in the bright Texas sun, that 12# nylon tippet is now closer to 10#. Maybe it sat in a 135 degree truck for a while. That also degrades it. Add some water absorption and itâ€™s weaker still. Fluorocarbon can get wet and stay wet fishing all day and not soften or weaken or change properties from water absorption because it doesnâ€™t absorb water. Nylon does and will absorb water and will change properties and weaken.

https://activeanglingnz.com/2016/01/04/the-fluorocarbon-myth/

I like that fluorocarbon sinks faster. Maybe it buys me a couple more inches of depth. A lot of the fish I want are often feeding on the bottom and in shallow water so a few extra inches of sink is a pretty good percentage of the overall depth Iâ€™m fishing. I think and believe fluorocarbon gives me a few extra fish because of its better sink rate.

The whole cost angle seems ridiculous as leader material at the rate it gets used up is maybe the absolutely least expensive thing in fly fishing. Maybe if I changed flies constantly it might be different, but I donâ€™t. I lose more money in flies lost or destroyed by fish, and I tie almost all of the ones I fish, every time I fish than I eat up in tippet and itâ€™s not even close. Fly lines now are around $100 and they definitely wear out. I spend way more on fly lines than leader material even buying close outs lines and using them well beyond their prime. How much do we have in boats, rods, reels, guides, waders, etc. and people worry about the cost of a little leader material?


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## southpaw (Feb 25, 2009)

karstopo said:


> The whole cost angle seems ridiculous as leader material at the rate it gets used up is maybe the absolutely least expensive thing in fly fishing. Maybe if I changed flies constantly it might be different, but I donâ€™t. I lose more money in flies lost or destroyed by fish, and I tie almost all of the ones I fish, every time I fish than I eat up in tippet and itâ€™s not even close. Fly lines now are around $100 and they definitely wear out. I spend way more on fly lines than leader material even buying close outs lines and using them well beyond their prime. How much do we have in boats, rods, reels, guides, waders, etc. and people worry about the cost of a little leader material?


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## Fishsurfer (Dec 14, 2014)

I have been using tied and tapered knot-less for a long time. Lately for floating lines I have been using 5' 50# or 40# Ande mono leader attached by nail knot or loop to 8wt fly line, then double surgeons knot to 2â€™ of 30# or 20# Ande mono with a loop connection to about 3â€™ of 15# or 10# fluorocarbon tip section. I keep on a small piece of foam cut for leaders for tip sections with loop connection on one end and replace it as it gets messed up. For sinking lines, I use 3â€™ 50# or 40# Ande leader with loop connections to 2â€™ of 15# fluorocarbon. I do not use a particular brand of fluorocarbon, just whatever is on sale. I like the Ande leader material because it has the right diameter and stiffness and it is fairly cheap. I donâ€™t like complicated 4 or 5 section tapered leaders so I go with 3 or 2 sections. I have found these turn over the flies well and will work in windy conditions. I can also replace the tippet section quickly. This is really a personal preference and you have to find what works for you. 
I do like knotless tapered when there is a bunch of algae or other stuff the knots will pick up. When the tippet section starts getting short I will tie a loop in the end and start using it with a loop to loop connection to tippet section or just change them out completely, it really depends on the conditions.


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## JoeTXFish (Jun 4, 2018)

I make mine now...buying premade is a waste.

Buy bulk mono in 30#, 20, 12. I like Seaguar. Tie 3 sections: about 5 feet 30, 3 feet 20 and 1.5 feet of 12.

Tie each section together using a double uni knot with a perfection loop on the end of the 30 to easily tie to your fly line.


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## Ish (Oct 30, 2008)

i didn't read all the comments so i don't know if any of this was mentioned or not, but over time i've come to realize there's really only three things you need to know about leaders:

-mono floats, fluoro sinks

-tie and seat your knots correctly

-use the same brand fluoro or mono to make the leader, with perhaps the exception of the tippets. 



lengths and type of knots are personal preference for each application. 

good luck.


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## Golden (Aug 1, 2006)

Over the last year or so I've been using 7' nylon "furled" leader tied by a friend of mine. I loop to loop connect a 16" section of 12 lb. floro tippet before every trip out on the water. These leaders are awesome especially in the salt, the larger fly(s) turn over so sweet. You know, without the crash, splash, fish gone that knot less tapered leaders are so famous for. The leader acts as a shock absorber in a way. I'm not going to attempt to explain how to tie them here, I wouldn't know where to start. Look thru the interweeb there is plenty out there on the subject. But that's why I have friends! Ha! Try one out, betcha you'll like them. Good Fishing!


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