# Ballistic reticle



## easoutdoors (Jun 4, 2004)

In looking for a scope I talked to Leopold and Swarovski and recieved conflicting info about hunting here on the coast @ 43' elevation, and in Colorado @ 7000-11000 feet elevation. 
The leopold guy said I would need a ballistic terret for for all 3 different elevations.
Swarovski put a Ballistic reticle in my PH6-24x50. They have an online calculator that builds a chart for the BR and its only changes 1 yrd between 0 elevation and 7000 and 1yrd more from 7000 to 11000.
The question is: is it the difference between a ballistic reticle and ballistic terret or is it one of their data is wrong?


----------



## THE JAMMER (Aug 1, 2005)

I think it really depends upon how "dead on" you want it to be.

I put the following into my ballistic computer: 30-06, 180 gr bullet with a bc of .483, zero range 200 yards, scope 1.5" above bore, 60 degrees, 400 yard shot.

At sea level: velocity at 400 yards 2000 fps, energy 1598 ft lbs; drop 24.07"
At 10,000': velocity at 400 yards 2173 fps, energy 1887 ft lbs; drop 22.05"

2.02" vertical difference in point of impact between sea level and 10,000' for the same shot.

So if you really want to be dead on with a ballistic reticle, it really should be made for a particular elevation. I don't know that I would go to the point of having a different turret for every elevation. Buy the one for the elevation you will shoot it at the most, and then when shooting at other elevations make the appropriate changes in your hold to compensate for that elevation difference, which as shown above will, in most practical situations, be minimal.


----------



## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Nothing wrong with Jammer's infromation but as a practical hunter I think we are getting a little out of hand regarding differences at say sea level and 8,000 feet, like shooting up or down or distance, now I have to figure in elevation.. Crazy


----------



## Texas T (May 21, 2004)

Get Sierra's ballistic program and install on your computer. It will calculate for the angles up/down, different temps, elevations, winds, then you can see the variations for you own and decide if you really need to worry about it or how much to worry about it.


----------



## THE JAMMER (Aug 1, 2005)

CHARLIE said:


> Nothing wrong with Jammer's infromation but as a practical hunter I think we are getting a little out of hand regarding differences at say sea level and 8,000 feet, like shooting up or down or distance, now I have to figure in elevation.. Crazy


Exactly the point I was trying to make Charlie.

Glad you brought up shooting up and down. So many people change their hold if they have any kind of an uphill or downhill shot, and inevitably shoot high. The number of degrees up or down and the number of yards the shot needs to be for up/down angle to really make a difference are well in excess of the normal hunters' experience.

Now with these crazy tv shows where they are taking 8-900 yard shots at live animals, that up/down can make a hit/miss difference.

However 8-900 yard shots at live animals???? Cmon. There is no one who can read wind consistently enough in the mountains to consistently make those shots. But remember those guys are trying to sell you their products.


----------



## prarie dog (Feb 28, 2011)

I took another tack on dealing with this issue. I have mil-dot reticle's on my rifles. I tape a chart on the butt stock that shows the spacing on the dots at ranges out to 800. I range an animal, plug the range into a program loaded on my droid that already knows the altitude, because of the gps function. I look at the chart and make the hold and shot. I haven't used it yet on a big game animal but so far on Prairie Dogs it's been very good. The next step is one of the handheld wind meters that give you wind speed. Don't have one yet but will soon. I may need to start taking a spotter to keep all this **** straight.


----------



## easoutdoors (Jun 4, 2004)

*terret*

So i gues the lepold guy was wanting to sell parts! 
The swarovski ballistic calculator is correct for their ballistic recticle (great news). As far as angles up or down thats a nice feature to have built into a range finder. 
I was just trying to see if yall could validate the info I had recieved since it was conflicting. Thanks for that. When I get to colorado I can ck my rifle from the traveling and know if its still on at a 100 yrds the rest of the hash marks will not have to be reverrified at each distance.


----------



## Bantam1 (Jun 26, 2007)

I would just print a chart with your different holds for elevation changes. Then you have one for your sea level and one for high elevation. Buy a good range finder and learn your holds. You can use a scope with a mil dot or similar reticle for range estimation if you do not have a range finder. You can also figure out your hold over for quick shots using the dots or lines.


----------



## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Let me see, lets think about it. Now I have just jumped a Mulie across the canyon after climbing for about 2 hours, he is running an an angle up the hill at something around 3 to 500 yards, and the wind is blowing out of the west at about 15 miles per hour, I might be around 5,000 feet plus or minus a few hundred feet, I am breathing so hard I am about to pass out, I think at that distance my gun probably mite drop from a foot to maybe three, the deer is running flat out so I must lead him 4 feet but he is also angling up a little and he is above me, I dont have a rest. OH ME WHAT AM I TO DO ??? Maybe check my elevation to determine where I must shoot. Awww come on now guys


----------



## THE JAMMER (Aug 1, 2005)

CHARLIE said:


> Let me see, lets think about it. Now I have just jumped a Mulie across the canyon after climbing for about 2 hours, he is running an an angle up the hill at something around 3 to 500 yards, and the wind is blowing out of the west at about 15 miles per hour, I might be around 5,000 feet plus or minus a few hundred feet, I am breathing so hard I am about to pass out, I think at that distance my gun probably mite drop from a foot to maybe three, the deer is running flat out so I must lead him 4 feet but he is also angling up a little and he is above me, I dont have a rest. OH ME WHAT AM I TO DO ??? Maybe check my elevation to determine where I must shoot. Awww come on now guys


Charlie, whatever reticle, turret, etc. you, you know you'd be passing on that shot. LOL

But I will say that there is an obsession these days with extremely accurate shooting- myself included. You know as well, if not better, than anyone all of the inputs to an accurate shot, and I guess if one is trying to squeeze that last little 1/32 of an inch out of a load, that taking *ALL* of those things into account isn't all that bad. Count your blessings- we havne't heard anyone yet talking about coriolis effect (the latitude of your shot, and the compass heading of your shot), and spin drift. That'll be next.

And please, for the guy who started this thread, I am not belittling what you are trying to do. It's admirable as far as I'm concerned. It's just that like sometimes in my investment real estate classes that I teach, I warn investors against tripping over dollars on their way to pennies. In other words the efforts to which one sometimes goes in pursuit of some goal aren't worth the results obtained.

Obviously, as you said, from the stand point of hunting practicality, it's all a moot point. But different strokes for different folks, and sometimes different strokes for the same folks, as in my case. I sometimes get a bit anal about some of that stuff too.

But it's all fun.

AIM SMALL, MISS SMALL !!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## prarie dog (Feb 28, 2011)

Charlie, in the situation you outlined all this stuff is useless. It isn't all that unusuall to spot deer or elk grazing at a long distance, make a stalk that leaves you 4 to 6 hundred yards out. In this situation, with time, you can plan and take a good shot with all the information I talked about in my post. I've done it and watched others do it. Having said that, if you sit at home and don't get out and practice this stuff, in other words--treat it like a hypothetical exercise, no one can pull it off. A lot of guys up here practice this stuff on Prairie Dogs and Picket Pins.


----------



## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

prairie dog

Oh me set at home? I have hunted and encountered these situations for years.I agree sometime you may have an oportunity to use everything that is available to make a good shot. I have no problem with that or the information and questions that you have pointed out. Prairie dogs and Picket Pins well I really dont understand or know what a Picket Pin is so guess I am ignorant on whatever that is. Elk and deer in the mountains I have been there and done that. I just do not make mountains out of mole hills. Prarie dogs is like punching paper (almost) I am just a practical guy who tries not to get caught up in all the hype and deal with reality. I knew a DI once who pointed out if you can shoot you can shoot standing @#$% up to your neck if you caint nothing will help. Good shootin my friend

Jammer I am with you my friend I just want to know where my gun is shootin when I hit the mountains. That only takes one shot when I get there.. (usually) Last time was Canada a year ago


----------



## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

If you know your rifle and if you know where it is shooting, you know the distance and you have the experience you should be able to hit your target.

I've sat on many a ridge and passed on a few really good mule deer because I didn't think that I could make the shot. Too much gusting crosswind and the deer were 400 plus yards out. I would have taken the shot had it not been for the terrible crosswinds. 

I like the turret Leupold scopes. Back in the day when we used to shoot the metallic silhouettes we had our Weaver T-6 and T-10 scopes dialed in from 100 yards to 500 yards and we wrote the turret settings down in a little notebook we carried in our shirt pockets. After a while you knew the settings and the notebook didn't matter anymore.

TH


----------



## THE JAMMER (Aug 1, 2005)

*make a stalk that leaves you 4 to 6 hundred yards out.*

I'm not sure that ending up 4-600 yards out qualifies as a STALK.

It's so funny how different hunters approach different situations depening upon what they are hunting with. Two hunters, one with a rifle and one with a bow, see the same elk 7-800 yards away. The rifle hunter says, "How can I "stalk" him to so as to get within 250-300 yards." The bow hunter says, "How can I stalk him so as to get within 40 yards of him.

I guess there are different definitions of stalk. LOL


----------



## RobaloSunrise (Jun 10, 2011)

I have a few silly questions. What are you hunting for? What are the ranges you normally shoot? What are you shooting?


----------



## Bantam1 (Jun 26, 2007)

THE JAMMER said:


> *make a stalk that leaves you 4 to 6 hundred yards out.*
> 
> I'm not sure that ending up 4-600 yards out qualifies as a STALK.
> 
> ...


I would be the hunter that says "That is too much ground to cover. It will be gone before I get there (as I am breathing heavily). My 300WM sends rounds at 3000 fps. I can't move that fast and the round will impact in less than a second. Where's my range finder?"


----------



## Pocketfisherman (May 30, 2005)

If you have a smart phone, there's several different ballistic calculators you can download and use. I like "LetItFly".


----------



## easoutdoors (Jun 4, 2004)

*bottom line*

The bottom line on the swarovski Balistic recticle is correct @ 750 yards.
It was spot on at that distance.
The point of the original post was to compare some long range shooting info. It amazes me how people steal a post on here and turn it in to something else!


----------

