# Tresspasser and Poacher



## saltyoperator (May 6, 2006)

Well Saturday morning wasn't pleasant in the stand to say the least! Around 6:45 I see something moving thru the mesquites and to me it looked like a person, but I thought no way. Well about 30 yards from my feeder pops out a man with a gun looking to score off of my feeder! Well I told him to stop that I had a bead on him but he just ran into the woods. I hollored for him to get off my property and shot over the trees in his direction-- I know not to smart but I was ******!! As soon as I gathered my wits I called the local GW and he got to the house about 30 min later. We went to the spot where the guy came out and the GW said he thought he knew where the tracks might lead! Thirty minutes passed and he came back and just as I guessed it was the guy from the property next to mine that has been reported by myself and my friend three times for trespassing and hunting my pond!! Thing is he hasn't been caught in the act by the GW just yet and they haven't done anything about it also. I described the guy to him,he tracked him almost to the perps back door and still nothing has happened. What can I do to stop this?? Do you guys have any ideas on how to catch him? I'm gonna put up some game camera's but he will probably just tear them up. Also this guy has had several tickets issued this year already. What to do???


----------



## Corey270 (May 18, 2009)

Man that seems frustrating. I would try the game camera. Just dont put it where it is real noticeable. Hope you get him.


----------



## jmack (Dec 7, 2006)

Put a round about a two feet from where he is standing next time. When he see's the dirt flying he will know you are serious !


----------



## saltyoperator (May 6, 2006)

From his tracks it looks like the round in the air scared him some, I just wish it would stop. Also the guy can see my house that my parents live in and see all the vehicles around! From the trails he took it looks like this isn't his first trip aroun my place either!!


----------



## Arlon (Feb 8, 2005)

First find out why your rifle is shooting so high.. (-:}


----------



## boatlift (Jun 23, 2009)

I've fought poachers for 20 years, it's a headache. We've had several deer taken off our place this year already. The warden has staked out the place but nothing yet.

The Warden has caught (2) in the past 20 years. (1) was a convicted felon & is still in Huntsville. The other was the brother-n-law of the District Attorney for the county I'm in & got off with a ticket. I have a sneaking suspicion that the one poaching this year is the same guy. Heck a ticket is cheaper than a lease, right? The Warden did say:

"Heck if sex offenders can get off with little more than a slap on the wrist, don't you think a poacher could too."

I feel your pain brother, it's a nightmare. I worry about my boy when he comes to age going to his stand & coming up on one of these poachers. You forget, a poacher has a loaded weapon as well. Makes my stomach turn if something happened to my boy, or anyone else for that matter. Remember a poacher is not in a stable mindset, be careful out there. Even though you shot he could go behind brush, etc to get away, you're stuck in a tripod/box stand & a sitting target.


----------



## saltwatersensations (Aug 30, 2004)

take a 22 with ya next time and shoot him in the leg or the arse. Tell the police that you thought it was a hog. Put up no trespassing sign first.


----------



## waterspout (May 21, 2004)

Sorry to hear about a hunting accident on your place,, prayers out to family!


----------



## pngndn (Jun 19, 2009)

I had the same thing happen a few years ago in fred. one of the frednecks/meth heads lives near the lease came on the property about 75 yards from my stand. I heard rattling and got off the stand. I walked up on this guy rattling and grunting in a bush...I asked him what the @#@# he was doing and he said hunting..i asked him what lease he was on and he started saying um um spring branch...Wrong answer...he was burnt enough to give me his identification...I gave info to GW and a few months later got with me and picked him out of a photo line up...haven't heard anything else


----------



## HillCountry Hunter (Apr 9, 2009)

set up a trip wire that will hang him from a tree in a big net, seems to work in the movies?


----------



## Blue Water Breaux (Feb 6, 2008)

heavy-duty bear claw traps work really well, especially in mesquite like you mentioned. DONT ask me how I know. Also makes it really easy to identify your poacher in the local small town weeks later. 

Just make sure no matter what route you take, you have a "No Tresspassing Sign" up and noticeable around the lease. We had people messing with our feeders, so I took it upon myself to add a little current to the box, not the feeder guard (did this so no animals were hurt) and even put a small lightning bolt with sharpy on the legs of the feeder so I'd remember. I'll see if I can find the pic I took of fingers, well flesh burnt on the metal box. I know that lit someone's arse up good.


----------



## Arlon (Feb 8, 2005)

Might also be worth having a decent camera in the blind if you have poachers around. One picture might be worth a thousand words in a court room.


----------



## justletmein (Feb 11, 2006)

Blue Water Breaux said:


> heavy-duty bear claw traps work really well, especially in mesquite like you mentioned. DONT ask me how I know. Also makes it really easy to identify your poacher in the local small town weeks later.
> 
> Just make sure no matter what route you take, you have a "No Tresspassing Sign" up and noticeable around the lease. We had people messing with our feeders, so I took it upon myself to add a little current to the box, not the feeder guard (did this so no animals were hurt) and even put a small lightning bolt with sharpy on the legs of the feeder so I'd remember. I'll see if I can find the pic I took of fingers, well flesh burnt on the metal box. I know that lit someone's arse up good.


Please post up the DIY details on that one!


----------



## Zereaux (Jul 18, 2006)

When we dealt with this problem in Tyler County, the GW suggested that he could
issue a Notice of Criminal Trespass to the offender. Once the offender was notified,
then the next time we saw said offender on the property, he could be arrested based
on our sworn testimony. He issued the Notice to several locals and eventually they
all had to see the Judge. It helped some...


----------



## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

Just a heads up.... if you shoot and kill a poacher or trespasser, you will go to jail for manslaughter or murder....

If you shoot and wound a poacher or trespasser, you will go to jail for assualt with a deadly weapon or possibly attempted murder/manslaughter.

If you shoot AT a poacher or trespasser, you can get charged with assault with a deadly weapon as well...

You can only use deadly force if you are in fear of your life. 

I hate poachers and trespassers... I catch them all the time, but scaring them off with gunfire is just going to make things worse, and could result in you, him or both of you dead.

Just saying

Tempers flare and we dont always make the most sound decisions when they do, but remember, the reprecussions of such a decision can haunt you for the rest of your life.


----------



## Blue Water Breaux (Feb 6, 2008)

justletmein said:


> Please post up the DIY details on that one!


A little bit of "foolery" goes a long way. I put a car battery inside the barrel feeder and dropped the hotwire down through a small hole I made right next to the downspout. The battery was sitting on a piece of ply wood cut smaller than the circumference inside the barrel so the battery would sit on top of what corn was left evenly. In terms of an "on/off" switch, I took an old kc daylighter switch and connected them to it-worked really well. The idiot didn't realize or maybe just didn't see where I ran the wire, after all it was black and well disguised, into the metal box containing the controls to my feeder. Then again, he/she just wanted to get in and change the controls back to feeding at 1am, 2am and 12 pm,1pm like they did before! Trust me, the pucker factor and the frustration of corn and protein pellets being slung into ones face at noon while filling feeders is enough to pi** you off and want revenge-especially when you find your feeder has been set to go off 4x in the middle of the night and day. It was at my feeder with the 3 hog lights- go figure.


----------



## Blue Water Breaux (Feb 6, 2008)

justinsfa said:


> Just a heads up.... if you shoot and kill a poacher or trespasser, you will go to jail for manslaughter or murder....
> 
> If you shoot and wound a poacher or trespasser, you will go to jail for assualt with a deadly weapon or possibly attempted murder/manslaughter.
> 
> ...


Exactly, so make sure when you decide you're life is in jeopardy, shoot to kill. If a poacher is around me I will go out of my way to make sure he/she doesn't see me, however, like the book "Most Dangerous Game" people are hunted and don't even know it. When poachers are involved, its not always a case of running and hiding, esp if they beat you to your spot-then YOU become the hunted. Poachers are not of the same thought process as normal human beings and out for food bc most times they cannot afford to hunt or they are wanting your crop. That being said, they are dangerous and should not be dealt with lightly. Every one of them is armed and I would say will shoot you if they feel they have even the slightest advantage once being noticed. If it comes down to _mano y mano_, better make sure you're the first one to fire if you feel like you're life is in danger...bc when it comes to life, you're not a cat with 9 lives, you're a human with ONE.


----------



## saltyoperator (May 6, 2006)

Guys, thanks for all the info! Is there a GW or sherriff that visits the site that could give me some expert advice so that I know which way to solve this problem? I was looking up trespassing laws and seen that just trespassing was a Class B mis. and trespassing with a gun was a Class A mis. Could you go to jail for these offenses? Also how much evidence do you need to get problems like this taken care of???


----------



## snapperlicious (Aug 11, 2009)

*x2*

Yea im thinking a bear trap also! that will slow him down enough for the gw to get there.:dance:


----------



## Blue Water Breaux (Feb 6, 2008)

saltyoperator said:


> Guys, thanks for all the info! Is there a GW or sherriff that visits the site that could give me some expert advice so that I know which way to solve this problem? I was looking up trespassing laws and seen that just trespassing was a Class B mis. and trespassing with a gun was a Class A mis. Could you go to jail for these offenses? Also how much evidence do you need to get problems like this taken care of???


I always always ALWAYS carry a camera in the field with me...I mean between all the UFO's we see while hunting, monster bucks and occasional poacher-why not?! In all seriousness though, its a great tool to have and can be your most trusted piece of equipment in the field!


----------



## BIG PAPPA (Apr 1, 2008)

*FIRST OF ALL*

Get a can of Purple paint and walk the fenceline painting every other fencepost top(spray paint). Purple is the International NO TRESPASSING color. and get a game camera and put it somewhere on the trail he's using with a verifyable tree in the background of the camera shot so it can and will be used against him when you press charges. last but not least, they have some pretty POWERFUL battery powered hot fences out there and you could set a couple up around the trail he's using about neck high.
It's really really hard to hunt in colder weather after you have PIZZED your pants from getting the dumb Arsed Poacher Crud ZAPPED out of you. And if that don't work...I'm out of suggestions.


----------



## Bobby (May 21, 2004)

Just shoot the SOB and bury him.


----------



## saltyoperator (May 6, 2006)

Well what I want to know is why in the HE** can you not protect what is yours without looking like the bad guy in these situations?? For GODS sake they are the criminals!!!


----------



## coogerpop (Sep 3, 2009)

justinsfa said:


> Just a heads up.... if you shoot and kill a poacher or trespasser, you will go to jail for manslaughter or murder....
> 
> If you shoot and wound a poacher or trespasser, you will go to jail for assualt with a deadly weapon or possibly attempted murder/manslaughter.
> 
> ...


 The above is true...be a shame for him to file charges on you!!!!and he would win the judgement also....


----------



## Tail Chaser (May 24, 2004)

saltyoperator said:


> Guys, thanks for all the info! Is there a GW or sherriff that visits the site that could give me some expert advice so that I know which way to solve this problem? I was looking up trespassing laws and seen that just trespassing was a Class B mis. and trespassing with a gun was a Class A mis. Could you go to jail for these offenses? Also how much evidence do you need to get problems like this taken care of???


I'm pretty sure the last time I checked the Outdoor Annual, hunting on property that you do not have permission to is a felony.


----------



## justletmein (Feb 11, 2006)

Class A is pretty bad, it's the last step before a Felony.


----------



## garybryan (Nov 23, 2009)

Post signs that say TRESPASSERS WILL BE SHOT, survivers will be prosecuted. That should be a fair warning. 
Didn't you say he pointed a gun at you, I would have been scared enough to shoot.

I WAS SCARED FOR MY LIFE!!!!!


----------



## 100% Texan (Jan 30, 2005)

Why not just go back were he lives and knock on his door and let him know right then and there what your intentions will be next time he is on your property.This way when you shoot his sorry arse you can justify [to yourself] that you did all you could do to prevent the episode.I think we as a people have gotten to laxed in justifiable actions.I hate thieves doesnt matter what there after.


----------



## wet dreams (May 21, 2004)

If your over the lease, your considered the 'owners agent' if you know who it is >for sure< all you have to do is go to the JP and file on him>>>period. If so I would call the warden and talk about it first as he could be of great help with his knowledge of the situtation, also a 8x10 glossy would be icing on the cake but probab be hard to get now...WW


----------



## Tail Chaser (May 24, 2004)

justletmein said:


> Class A is pretty bad, it's the last step before a Felony.


Maybe so, but lot's of things become out of your reach once you become a felon, like the right to hunt with a rifle (at least lawfully). Not to mention the effects on your career. Granted I doubt too many meth heads are concerned with a career.


----------



## let's talk fishin (Jan 4, 2008)

Arlon said:


> First find out why your rifle is shooting so high.. (-:}


lol


----------



## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

100% Texan said:


> Why not just go back were he lives and knock on his door and let him know right then and there what your intentions will be next time he is on your property.This way when you shoot his sorry arse you can justify [to yourself] that you did all you could do to prevent the episode.I think we as a people have gotten to laxed in justifiable actions.I hate thieves doesnt matter what there after.


Because that is a terroristic threat.... more jail time and motive in case something were to happen in the future.

The only way to solve anything is to take the proper routes... they dont always work out and its time consuming, but its the only way to actually make a difference.

Shoot and kill the guy and you have just ruined his life, his family's lives and your life and your family's lives over a dang deer that he hasnt even killed.

I hear everybody on this board always talking about shooting and killing people for hunting on their land or riding four wheelers on their property and stuff.

Seriously? Those things should be punishable by death???????

Does that mean I need to go ahead and blow away the kid on the corner that smokes weed on his porch every Saturday night???

And another thing, there is not a person on this board that could handle the guilt of killing someone that was not endangering the lives of themselves or their families....

My advice, keep informing the authorities... Post signs and paint everything on the property line purple. File as many complaints as possible. Do not make it easy for trespassers. Always prosecute to the fullest extent. No exceptions.

As BRB says, if the guy points a gun at you, dont hesitate.... take him down.... Dont ever point your gun at something you dont intend to kill DEAD...


----------



## Gator gar (Sep 21, 2007)

Bobby said:


> Just shoot the SOB and bury him.


After you shoot him, rent you A CAT 330C trac hoe. Take the bucket and pinch of the head and limbs into smaller pieces. Dig down as deep as it will go. Drag pieces of poacher into new hole, make sure torso is punctured real good. Put remaining dirt back in hole. Pack it down real good. Plant a small food plot or put feeder on your new dirt spot. Pressure wash bucket on trac hoe real good and call for a pick-up. Rest good that night knowing poacher won't return anywhere that he had been frequenting.


----------



## Timemachine (Nov 25, 2008)

justinsfa said:


> Because that is a terroristic threat.... more jail time and motive in case something were to happen in the future.
> 
> The only way to solve anything is to take the proper routes... they dont always work out and its time consuming, but its the only way to actually make a difference.
> 
> ...


*OUCH!!!*

Even as much as I feel the pain of havin' a thief live next door etc.etc..THIS post is exactly right. Can't kill anybody over poachin' even if "they need killin" (as stated by John Wayne). I _want_ to agree with shooting him in the leg but I can't. The poacher guy is an idiot...out smart him, gather evidence and then prosecute.

Just sayin'


----------



## B-Money (May 2, 2005)

a friend will help you when you are down. A really good friend will help you hide the body. _(quote from my wife talking to her friends about me)_


----------



## rodbuilder (Nov 26, 2008)

heck i will furnish the trip wire and teh expertice ot get er done.
Paul


----------



## Etexhunter (May 11, 2008)

Put up a no trespassing sign, another sign that says, "I shoot first, then ask questions later"... 

seriously, the game camera option seems to make the most sense. Might want to put up a fake one, and then hide a real one pointing at the fake one thereby catching the poacher destroying what he thinks is a real camera.
Carrying a camera is a good idea as well.


----------



## 100% Texan (Jan 30, 2005)

Justifa sorry if I rattled your liberal cage but since we now know my feelings about thieves would you like to ask me what I think about liberal's


justinsfa said:


> Because that is a terroristic threat.... more jail time and motive in case something were to happen in the future.
> 
> The only way to solve anything is to take the proper routes... they dont always work out and its time consuming, but its the only way to actually make a difference.
> 
> ...


----------



## Fishin' Soldier (Dec 25, 2007)

Etexhunter said:


> Put up a no trespassing sign, another sign that says, "I shoot first, then ask questions later"...


Or a sign that states "Nothing on this property is worth dying for. I will not hesitate to use deadly force."

No I do not believe deadly force is the correct way here. It is not worth killing someone for a feeder and some deer or ducks. Should scare his arse enough to not come back though. Then though all you are doing is pawning your problem off on someone else when he goes to the next property over. The LEO method is the best bet but may take a while. game camera makes sense too.


----------



## catchysumfishy (Jul 19, 2008)

Put up a new sign stating if they are caught they will be sent DIRECTLY to the Openly homosexual city limits of HOUSTON!


----------



## Bobby (May 21, 2004)

Gator gar said:


> After you shoot him, rent you A CAT 330C trac hoe. Take the bucket and pinch of the head and limbs into smaller pieces. Dig down as deep as it will go. Drag pieces of poacher into new hole, make sure torso is punctured real good. Put remaining dirt back in hole. Pack it down real good. Plant a small food plot or put feeder on your new dirt spot. Pressure wash bucket on trac hoe real good and call for a pick-up. Rest good that night knowing poacher won't return anywhere that he had been frequenting.


I like the way you think.
And I don't care if the youngsters like it or not.


----------



## br1006 (Mar 24, 2006)

Dang guys, some of you are hardcore! 

Just dont LET the law handle things, as in many things in society today you have got to MAKE the system work. Hound the local Game Warden, Sheriff, JP, District Attorney etc... and hound them to take care of this before it does get out of hand.


----------



## RSanders24 (Oct 24, 2009)

HE


----------



## big john o (Aug 12, 2005)

My guess is he wont be back.


----------



## RSanders24 (Oct 24, 2009)

He is the owner and there are signs on the fence between us, I know this cause I am his brother. The signs are shot to **** and the **** boy has no respect for anything. He has been on the property before because he knew the quickest **** way out.


----------



## catchysumfishy (Jul 19, 2008)

RSanders24 said:


> He is the owner and there are signs on the fence between us, I know this cause I am his brother. The signs are shot to **** and the **** boy has no respect for anything. He has been on the property before because he knew the quickest **** way out.


Sucky deal....get off this public forum and take care of the problem! Whatever you do, continue being the bigger person..he will get his!


----------



## fin&feather (Jun 24, 2008)

Sorry you are going through this, sounds like a real thorn and one with burrs at that. Wish I could tell one simple way to fix this but at this rate things like this will get worse before it gets better so you better stick to the book. Ill also admit it wasn’t a really smart thing to do by firing a round off and you are lucky he didn’t return the fear, not that its right but these type of folks aren’t the most rational bunch you will ever meet. I’d hate having to go to my favorite getaway spot always looking over my shoulder, hope things work out soon.


----------



## Bobby (May 21, 2004)

RSanders24 said:


> He is the owner and there are signs on the fence between us, I know this cause I am his brother. The signs are shot to **** and the **** boy has no respect for anything. He has been on the property before because he knew the quickest **** way out.


Are you the poachers brother or the OPs brother. If your the OPs brother then you need to cool down and watch your language before you get his thread deleted.


----------



## RSanders24 (Oct 24, 2009)

catchysumfishy said:


> Sucky deal....get off this public forum and take care of the problem! Whatever you do, continue being the bigger person..he will get his!


Thanks for the support, I would like to get off and do something about it but we have to see what the gw is going to do but its to late.


----------



## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

I just wonder which of you guys will be the first to have to shoot a burglar or something, then have some antigun punk ADA dig up old 2cool posts where you talked about killing any thief, poacher, etc...


----------



## Profish00 (May 21, 2004)

big john o said:


> My guess is he wont be back.


Expecially if he looks at2cool....wow:rotfl:


----------



## Bobby (May 21, 2004)

dwilliams35 said:


> I just wonder which of you guys will be the first to have to shoot a burglar or something, then have some antigun punk ADA dig up old 2cool posts where you talked about killing any thief, poacher, etc...


Been there got the t-shirt.


----------



## RSanders24 (Oct 24, 2009)

With signs up and the young man with a gun would you fell threatened even after he knew someone lived there for several months already.


----------



## TexasFlats (Mar 29, 2007)

Tail Chaser said:


> Maybe so, but *lot's of things become out of your reach once you become a felon, like the right to hunt with a rifle (at least lawfully)*. Not to mention the effects on your career. Granted I doubt too many meth heads are concerned with a career.


You may be on to something here - does this "neighbor" have a record that would keep him from hunting legally?

.


----------



## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

100% Texan said:


> Justifa sorry if I rattled your liberal cage but since we now know my feelings about thieves would you like to ask me what I think about liberal's


What in the world does that have to do with politics???

Its called reality.... You shoot somebody that is commiting no harm to you or your family, then you will spend the rest of your life in jail.... PERIOD...

You can act all big and bad about killing anybody that puts their toe on your property and go puffing up your Alpha Male chest, but you will be cowering in the cell when Biff, your new cellmate, starts winking at you...

And how great is your advice??? Why, lets just go over to someones house and threaten to kill them... Yep, pretty smart.... Guess what??? Now the trespasser actually has the right to put 2 in your chest.... You are threatening his life on HIS property in HIS house.... GENIUS!!! I MUST SAY!!!!

Get a grip dude.... People just need to quit talking about killing everybody that crosses them....


----------



## boatlift (Jun 23, 2009)

Sign up Joe Horn as a lease member, your problems will be solved.. 

I really hope someone gets that...


----------



## jmack (Dec 7, 2006)

justinsfa said:


> What in the world does that have to do with politics???
> 
> Its called reality.... You shoot somebody that is commiting no harm to you or your family, then you will spend the rest of your life in jail.... PERIOD...
> 
> ...


Not trying to pick a fight here but maybe if a few people did start taking the law into there own hands then other people would start thinking twice before poaching or breaking and entering.


----------



## Primer (Jan 12, 2008)

jmack said:


> Not trying to pick a fight here but maybe if a few people did start taking the law into there own hands then other people would start thinking twice before poaching or breaking and entering.


Amen.


----------



## RustyScupper (Oct 8, 2007)

Plant shorter trees!


----------



## Pecos (Feb 20, 2006)

Butch up, grow a pair, and whup his aXX....OR..carry your camera next time, take his picture, and call the ol' GW. Personally, I am tired of relying on the G to handle all of the bumps in life's road and tend to lean toward self help...but that is just me...and my wife and my mother-in-law say that I am over the line...go figure.:headknock

Pecos


----------



## willsoonbfishin (Dec 8, 2006)

What he said.



jmack said:


> Not trying to pick a fight here but maybe if a few people did start taking the law into there own hands then other people would start thinking twice before poaching or breaking and entering.


----------



## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

jmack said:


> Not trying to pick a fight here but maybe if a few people did start taking the law into there own hands then then people would start thinking twice before poaching or breaking and entering.


People have been saying that for a thousand years.... and guess what? People are still breaking into houses, stealing stuff and trespassing....

If you want to take your chances, then go ahead....

But realize that you are an experienced outdoorsman, shooting a high powered rifle, equipped with optics, and from an elevated position.

You have just shot a person that didnt even know you were there for committing a Class C misdemeanor (for comparison, is equal to an MIP or 0-2 oz of marijuana).

You tell me if you would trust a jury to side with you because you were tired of somebody deer hunting on your property....

Good Luck!

And heaven forbid that it was somebody lost or tracking a wounded deer.... Man, you would never be able to live with yourself....


----------



## Pathfinder (Jun 9, 2004)

justinsfa said:


> What in the world does that have to do with politics???
> 
> Its called reality.... You shoot somebody that is commiting no harm to you or your family, then you will spend the rest of your life in jail.... PERIOD...
> 
> ...


Before you start preaching to everyone about laws and when you can or can't use deadly force, you might invest some time to look at the facts. Have you heard of the castle doctrine? It gives people the right to protect their PROPERTY. You do not have to feel that your life or anyone elses is in any danger. The only one that will be in danger is the pos stealing from you.

See 3 (a) below. In my opinion, if I was one of twelve on a jury, I would interprite that to mean this man has tried all other means to protect his land and deadly force was the only way he felt like he could protect his land.

Sec. 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41; and
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and
(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.


----------



## HonkyFin (May 28, 2004)

You should have some old VC soldier come out there and dig a few deeeeep pits,,,maybe line tha bottom of said pit with many upward pointed shanks,,errr stakes.
Put up a few signs warning about ""Pig Traps"",,,,Can you still get a bouncing betty ???


----------



## TXDRAKE (Jun 24, 2004)

All I have to say about this subject is that, most trespassers are already convicted felons and in their distorted view have nothing to lose by trespassing, poaching, or killing you to cover the evidence. 

So, be very careful of those you find trespassing on your land or poaching and if you do decide to confront them, be prepared for their possible retaliation (right then or when your not there). These people shoot and fight with cops all the time and to them your nothing more than a small nuisance! If they are on your property, then they already know they are doing something against the law and bottom line is they "DON'T CARE"!!

Again, these people will probably not be in jail very long and when they do get out they may possibly come and take it out on your property, you, or your family. God forbid, he comes to the camp looking for revenge when your out hunting and all thats their is your wife and kiddos! I know this is a far out possibility, but most of my freinds that are LE (actually most of my friends are LE, LOL) will tell you that they are quite picky about where they take their families in the area that they work a beat and are always making sure that someone isn't following them home, etc.

Just be careful and stay safe my friends!


----------



## Greg E (Sep 20, 2008)

Guess you could find his trail and set a foot trap. A big Victor coil spring. Dont know how long it would hold him. Use logs, sticks or rocks to help guide his foot in the right direction. Use a big enough trap and you and the GW will have to help him get it off


----------



## BEER4BAIT (Jun 24, 2005)

Who needs guns or GW when you can bare fist him. I remember a thread a while back about was it OK to allow poaching if someone was hungry, well maybe he was hungry.


----------



## catchysumfishy (Jul 19, 2008)

What about a very large GLUE trap......that would make an excellent youtube moment! :wink:


----------



## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

Pathfinder said:


> Before you start preaching to everyone about laws and when you can or can't use deadly force, you might invest some time to look at the facts. Have you heard of the castle doctrine? It gives people the right to protect their PROPERTY. You do not have to feel that your life or anyone elses is in any danger. The only one that will be in danger is the pos stealing from you.
> 
> See 3 (a) below. In my opinion, if I was one of twelve on a jury, I would interprite that to mean this man has tried all other means to protect his land and deadly force was the only way he felt like he could protect his land.
> 
> ...


Yes, Texas has the Castle Doctrine....

But, as I see it, everything is in the "gray" area....

Time wise, its at daylight.... not dark.... burden of proof is on the OP. If it was bright enough to see the trespasser in an area that has no lighting, then the "dark" clause is going to be useless.

Theft wise, the guy is in the woods (not sure what to call that kind of country out there). There isnt much to steal out there, other than the feeder. The burden of proof would now be on the OP to prove that the trespasser was going to steal the feeder. Especially if the trespasser could even physically remove the feeder.

The shot was fired when the guy was running away. This law only allows deadly force to be used if a crime of burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime and to prevent the guy from escaping with the property. The guy didnt take anything.

The guy was wrong for trespassing.... no exceptions.... but it would be risky to shoot now and ask questions later...

Remember, not everybody out there has the same mindset as people on this board, and theres a good chance that there would be those people on your jury.... ESPECIALLY in a civil case....

The law is a touchy subject because every scenario is different. I would just hate to have to test it out in this scenario....

The OP is right for being mad and should be. I hate that the State isn't doing much to help. Been there, done that plenty of times.... Yall think yall have it bad, try hunting with me in East Texas! haha

But its a whole lot easier calling the Police to report a trespasser than to report a body.

Below is a photo I took of an armed trespasser on my property on opening weekend of deer season this year, 2009. The guy never saw me. Once I took the picture with my phone, I announced who I was and that he was trespassing on private property. Based on a gut feeling, I didnt feel that I was in danger and approached him. (NOTE: This was just my specific circumstance. Others may not be as calm of a confrontation.) Turns out that he was an injured vet with a bad leg and he was using my trail as an easier route to get to an area that the neighboring landowner had given him permission to hunt. He was unaware that he had crossed any property line, even though there was paint. I gave him a verbal warning and warned him of the dangers of climbing through an East Texas thicket unexpectedly. We have a few trigger happy folks on my place that get a little excited at movement in the bushes.... Now, how horrible would it have been if I had just pulled up and shot him????


----------



## muddnasty (Oct 23, 2007)

*LOL*



catchysumfishy said:


> Put up a new sign stating if they are caught they will be sent DIRECTLY to the Openly homosexual city limits of HOUSTON!


You aren't right man,I love my city but I had no say(vote) in this matter.(We are not in city limits) anyway,you made me laugh,just for a brief second though.lol


----------



## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

Another note, while I was looking around for some info on what level of crime trespassing is in the state, I did come across this on WiKipedia (or whatever it is called) that pertains to Texas.

3) And the sweet icing on the cake, nonlethal booby traps are legal, too: 
§ 9.44. USE OF DEVICE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. The justification afforded by Sections 9.41 and 9.43 applies to the use of a device to protect land or tangible, movable property if: (1) the device is not designed to cause, or known by the actor to create a substantial risk of causing, death or serious bodily injury; and (2) use of the device is reasonable under all the circumstances as the actor reasonably believes them to be when he installs the device. 

So Catchy, it looks like your glue trap is good to go!!!!!


----------



## Dukman (Sep 21, 2007)

justinsfa said:


> Y
> Below is a photo I took of an armed trespasser on my property on opening weekend of deer season this year, 2009...........


Wow, didn't realize many people hunted in bright yellow shirts on opening weekend.... just saying.


----------



## RockinU (Aug 13, 2006)

Catch him by himself, read him from the book, and help him see the light...pay your fine, and go on. No need for gun-play.


----------



## wet dreams (May 21, 2004)

wet dreams said:


> If your over the lease, your considered the 'owners agent' if you know who it is >for sure< all you have to do is go to the JP and file on him>>>period. If so I would call the warden and talk about it first as he could be of great help with his knowledge of the situtation, also a 8x10 glossy would be icing on the cake but probab be hard to get now...WW


Read the above, its so easy a cave man can do it >>plain and simple....WW


----------



## saltyoperator (May 6, 2006)

Well I didn't expect to get some of the responses I did but Thanks for the ideas. First of all I do not want to shoot anyone I just want the guy to stay off my property!! The no trespassing signs that I have up have been shot up by him and this is the third time he has been on my property (that I know of) and all three times the GW or sherrifs office has been called and yet he has been caught. Also my place isn't just for hunting, I own the place and we run cattle and I'm afraid he may kill my calves next, there is no telling what he might do and also I have a house on the property that my parents live in with plenty of stuff for him to steal!! I just need to get him to stop and need to catch him with no one getting hurt, I do not want any confrontations, killing, or shooting!! I JUST WANT SOMETHING DONE TO KEEP HIM ON HIS PROPERTY!!


----------



## Tiny (Dec 19, 2006)

Clear you fence line Minimum 10 feet, find where he is entering the property (foot prints), set up your camera and get the evidence. Also put up some constantine wire, that will halp deter a little bit.


----------



## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

Dukman said:


> Wow, didn't realize many people hunted in bright yellow shirts on opening weekend.... just saying.


Yep... struck me as strange too... but Im not the fashion Police... haha

He mentioned there being a blind in the area that he was trying to get to, so I guess camo wasnt a big deal.

His deer rifle did have one of those cool looking Sniper Rifle paint jobs on it though.


----------



## Screeminreel (Jun 2, 2004)

As per the new parks and wildlife regs, if he is caught on your trespassing with a gun, it is considered poaching, also if there are bullets being shot across your fence with out your specific written permission this is also punishable, either of these can be used, and can be punishable up to a felony charge including fines and jail time. If I were you, and we deal with this **** all the time, I would print up the contents of the new laws and post them along with new posted signs on all sides of your property. I would pay close attention to any which do get shot and the directions the shots come from. When you have undisputable evidence of him shooting or being on your property with a firearm then I would hound the GW like a case of poison ivy to do his job, if he can't resolve it go above him to Austin. I would not put up with the local good ol boy ****. IF you make it known that your serious about the issue, it will either slow down or stop. You have tried to talk to them and warned them, and filed complaints on them there is really nothing more to but gather an iron clad case and work it form there. If you can get him, while in the presence of LE no matter it being the sheriff or GW and state that you will hold him personally accountable for ANY damage or injury from outside persons, with them (LE) there as a witness, it will go a LOG way in slowing down or stopping them from coming back. It sucks I understand. We catch several people a year on my friends place, who knowingly have come through fences or locked gates that they got a key from so and so for, and we have gone this route. We call the LE and who ever shows up first we head down together and get everyone's ID and information, then comes the damage clause. IT has drastically reduced the number of folks we have had to deal with to only a couple per year where it was literally bunches of up to 12 or more at a time. The word is spreading that the landowner will be prosecuting to the fullest extent and with the new laws being enacted a couple of years back, to some that is MORE than enough to stay out.


----------



## warcat (May 22, 2004)

Screeminreel said:


> As per the new parks and wildlife regs, if he is caught on your trespassing with a gun, it is considered poaching, also if there are bullets being shot across your fence with out your specific written permission this is also punishable, either of these can be used, and can be punishable up to a felony charge including fines and jail time. If I were you, and we deal with this **** all the time, I would print up the contents of the new laws and post them along with new posted signs on all sides of your property. I would pay close attention to any which do get shot and the directions the shots come from. When you have undisputable evidence of him shooting or being on your property with a firearm then I would hound the GW like a case of poison ivy to do his job, if he can't resolve it go above him to Austin. I would not put up with the local good ol boy ****. IF you make it known that your serious about the issue, it will either slow down or stop. You have tried to talk to them and warned them, and filed complaints on them there is really nothing more to but gather an iron clad case and work it form there. If you can get him, while in the presence of LE no matter it being the sheriff or GW and state that you will hold him personally accountable for ANY damage or injury from outside persons, with them (LE) there as a witness, it will go a LOG way in slowing down or stopping them from coming back. It sucks I understand. We catch several people a year on my friends place, who knowingly have come through fences or locked gates that they got a key from so and so for, and we have gone this route. We call the LE and who ever shows up first we head down together and get everyone's ID and information, then comes the damage clause. IT has drastically reduced the number of folks we have had to deal with to only a couple per year where it was literally bunches of up to 12 or more at a time. The word is spreading that the landowner will be prosecuting to the fullest extent and with the new laws being enacted a couple of years back, to some that is MORE than enough to stay out.


Good info here.


----------



## Texas Jeweler (Nov 6, 2007)

OK, get this clear...shooting at anyone can be an attempted murder charge. Got that. Yeah, best thing to do is call the law, take a picture and not be the one to "make it right". 

You can rant all you want, but shooting at anyone is a really serious act.


----------



## catchysumfishy (Jul 19, 2008)

Paintball him ....if only Permanent INK paint balls were available! But Seriously,you can't even wear them out with a Paint ball gun on your OWN property...been there done that and dang near went to jail over it....danged house wrappers ..lol!


----------



## Bantam1 (Jun 26, 2007)

Get some of those rock salt rounds for the shotgun. It seems to work for the railroad pretty well. Hit him with that stuff and he won't come back.


----------



## warcat (May 22, 2004)

On the trail he uses, rig up a tree to a trip wire that will knock the **** out of him when tripped. It won't kill him, but it just might leave a big enough mark to make him not want to come back.


----------



## J L Dunn (Sep 16, 2005)

warcat said:


> On the trail he uses, rig up a tree to a trip wire that will knock the **** out of him when tripped. It won't kill him, but it just might leave a big enough mark to make him not want to come back.


No doubt this is what he deserves; however, from the discussion he must be very aware that he is doing wrong, and continuing to do wrong, so he obviously thinks nothing is going to go bad for him. This kinda guy is probably a character who also would believe in revenge...caveat needs to be thought out.

just my .02

JLD


----------



## wallhanger (Apr 10, 2009)

Justinsfa seems to compare himself to the situation and show how he handled his ONE TIME incident as a model to follow. Justinsfa you need to understand that he has dealt with these people numerous times. You just happened to catch this guy. He has made it clear over and over again but they still keep coming. This thread was started over him being sick and tired of the same repeat offenders. These people don't get it. They are ignoring the warnings. You say don't shoot because of the consequences to him and the intruders family. No different from home invasion. If you have to shoot to defend your home and family you will hate the fact that you had to go to such measures but I could honestly look his family straight in the eye and say HE should have never been on my property. No ONE should be allowed on my property or in my home taking from me and mine. You say its all over a deer. It's more than that. Its the right to own such property to which I pay taxes and have put my blood and sweat on as well as my families for years past and for my family to keep for future years. They have NO right coming onto my property and doing anything legal or illegal without my permission. The law says we can protect our rights and our property. I have no problem showing those who don't understand the law what happens if they choose to break it.


----------



## ol' salt (Jun 11, 2006)

Slip up on him next time and douse him in paintballs. He will be easy to track and ID. Do they make them in permanent ink?


----------



## catchysumfishy (Jul 19, 2008)

ol' salt said:


> Slip up on him next time and douse him in paintballs. He will be easy to track and ID. Do they make them in permanent ink?


Ummm...read post #81! :wink:


----------



## C'est Bon (Oct 19, 2009)

Zereaux said:


> When we dealt with this problem in Tyler County, the GW suggested that he could
> issue a Notice of Criminal Trespass to the offender. Once the offender was notified,
> then the next time we saw said offender on the property, he could be arrested based
> on our sworn testimony. He issued the Notice to several locals and eventually they
> all had to see the Judge. It helped some...


Having dealt with a very similar situation for the past 4 yrs, this is the best advice that's been posted here.
Traps and trip wires won't work because of the cows...shooting and/or confronting the poacher is asking for more trouble. 
The problem (as I have found) is that the burden of proof is on the landowner! The gamewardens have only talked to the offending neighbor and that's all he says he can do until he has photographic evidence!
Game cams are expensive and easily found since you have to clear the brush around and in front of them to work properly...and then you have to worry about them getting stolen or damaged by the trespasser. Getting the pic with your own camera (as Arlon and Bluewater Breaux have suggested) is your best bet...if you're lucky enough to be at the right place at the right time.

Get this: The douchebag who trespasses on my propery was once caught on video pouring molasses into the feeders! He was taken to trial where he was acquitted in the "good ol'boy system"...small town, son of a school teacher...the jury said, "He couldn't possibly have done anything like that!" Rumor has it that the judge might have even been paid off. So, even photographic evidence may not work!

Wish I had the solution to our problem, Saltyoperator. Try and be patient. Trust that it'll be taken care of come Judgment Day!


----------



## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

wallhanger said:


> Justinsfa seems to compare himself to the situation and show how he handled his ONE TIME incident as a model to follow. Justinsfa you need to understand that he has dealt with these people numerous times. You just happened to catch this guy. He has made it clear over and over again but they still keep coming. This thread was started over him being sick and tired of the same repeat offenders. These people don't get it. They are ignoring the warnings. You say don't shoot because of the consequences to him and the intruders family. No different from home invasion. If you have to shoot to defend your home and family you will hate the fact that you had to go to such measures but I could honestly look his family straight in the eye and say HE should have never been on my property. No ONE should be allowed on my property or in my home taking from me and mine. You say its all over a deer. It's more than that. Its the right to own such property to which I pay taxes and have put my blood and sweat on as well as my families for years past and for my family to keep for future years. They have NO right coming onto my property and doing anything legal or illegal without my permission. The law says we can protect our rights and our property. I have no problem showing those who don't understand the law what happens if they choose to break it.


Man, yall do what yall want. Im just glad I dont hunt anywhere near a bunch of trigger happy folks.

If you want to jeopardize your future and freedom over teaching someone a lesson to not to walk on your property, then so be it. Its your life, not mine. But dont be complaining when you are staring at your family through a 1" thick piece of glass once a week, then go for it!

The circumstances at which this occurred were not life threatening, nor property threatening.... it would be an uphill battle to defend yourself in court.

Even if the law were in his favor (which it is NOT), could you morally handle killing someone for that???

And this is not even comparable to a home invasion. If the OP was scared for his life, then why was the shot fired into the air and not at the trespassers forehead?

Im not condoning trespassing at all. Its wrong, its illegal, and the criminal should be fined AND jailed.... BUT, killing him should not even be considered.


----------



## saltyoperator (May 6, 2006)

Guys and gals thanks for the information! I hope to get this problem solved in a rational matter and I'm gonna let the law do their job! There is a whole lot to the story which I have not divulged and do not care too. There has been lots of positive feedback for me and then there have been assumptions made about the situation in which clearly wasn't the case. So other than the good info, this thread has gone down hill and I guess if I didn't want to know I shouldn't have asked! This is a great site to visit and to learn things and then again sometimes you wish you would just have kept you mouth shut, or in this case stayed off the keyboard. Once again thanks!!


----------



## wallhanger (Apr 10, 2009)

Taken from the words of a good GW friend of mine, "Being a GW is a dangerous job, when you catch a poacher in the act he has a gun and he knows he is in the wrong. He has a several choices at that point, flee, lie, and or possibly choose to fight and utilize his gun". What part of that possiblity is not LIFE THREATENING to you. You say as you so mentioned previously that confronting them and let them know they are trespassing and verbally warn them to not come back or you will press charges. What if he chooses to fight, points his gun right at you and says screw off, then what? Your little "be firm verbally" tactic got you in a load of ****.

Look, Im not saying shoot and ask questions later. What I'm saying is that a repeat offender has no fear. He is almost taunting the fact that he feels you have no power to put an end to his illegal ways. When confronted I feel you are putting your life in danger based on his continuous acts. If I confront a poacher and he acts in a way that I fear for my life I would have no problem putting him in the dirt. There is no law stating I would end up on the wrong side of the glass for that.


----------



## El Capitan de No Fish (Sep 20, 2007)

What about a fully automatic BB gun?
Seriously though good luck with your situation, I hate thieves.


----------



## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

wallhanger said:


> Taken from the words of a good GW friend of mine, "Being a GW is a dangerous job, when you catch a poacher in the act he has a gun and he knows he is in the wrong. He has a several choices at that point, flee, lie, and or possibly choose to fight and utilize his gun". *What part of that possiblity is not LIFE THREATENING to you.* You say as you so mentioned previously that confronting them and let them know they are trespassing and verbally warn them to not come back or you will press charges. What if he chooses to fight, points his gun right at you and says screw off, then what? Your little "be firm verbally" tactic got you in a load of ****.
> 
> Look, Im not saying shoot and ask questions later. What I'm saying is that a repeat offender has no fear. He is almost taunting the fact that he feels you have no power to put an end to his illegal ways. When confronted I feel you are putting your life in danger based on his continuous acts. If I confront a poacher and he acts in a way that I fear for my life I would have no problem putting him in the dirt. There is no law stating I would end up on the wrong side of the glass for that.


The part where the man fled. He did not fight or utilize his gun. He did not steal, he did not threaten anyones life...

When you get checked by a GW while hunting, do they go ahead and put a round into you? Just in case you are trespassing illegally??? I mean, you have a gun and all....

Do they even approach you with their weapon drawn? noooope

Most of the trespassers I encounter have a vehicle nearby, thank goodness. I just grab a license plate number and let the LEOs and GW sort it out. It happens often on our place. Hell, I would have a whole pile of bodies if I started shooting everybody I saw walking around. Unfortunately, the OP doesnt have this luxury.

Sure, shooting the guy will stop the problem, but so many more problems will arise from it....

Why would you want to spend the next 5 years of your life fighting charges with the possibility of lengthy prison sentences when you can just pick up a telephone and leave everybody breathing at the end of the day?

I just think some people are quick to throw out the KILL card, when its MUCHHHHH more complicated than that.


----------



## Levelwind (Apr 15, 2005)

Ignore the fantasy world guys and go with what works. Whatever you do don't end up the victim. 
Most, if not all the blowhards on this threads would **** their pants in the presence of a real bad man, which this guy very well may be. 
You have to be aware of the social and political situation as well. You can be right as rain, but rural politics sometimes results in spectacular court verdicts. 
If you *really* go after this guy, in the system or on your own, figure out where you'll be if you lose and he wins. Whips your ***, shoots you, wins in court and becomes even more brazen . . what's your next move, Bucky?

When I say "social aspects" do you own this property and do you or your family live on it? And how about the guy next door? Is he a full time resident? In the country, when I grew up, neighbors were your most important asset and a bad one was your worst nightmare. Does this guy feel entitled to hunt your land because it was in his family for generations and "stolen" by a bank? Or is he just an old hold out, like a lot of guys my age from a different place where only ********* posted their property against hunting, infuriating local WWII vets who came back to find they couldn't hunt on land they'd been fighting to protect, while the wienies who stayed home and made money off the war bought up property and put signs all over it.

I'll keep you in my prayers my freind. Be mindful of all the aspects of your situation but once you go up against this guy, crush him. If you lose you and your family could pay a tall price for years to come.


----------



## saltyoperator (May 6, 2006)

Levelwind, I own the land, it has been my family since 1921, and the guy next door bought 10 acres next door about 5 or 6 years ago and plus he is a young punk that thinks he can do whatever he wants!! Thanks and how do I lock this thread????


----------



## Levelwind (Apr 15, 2005)

saltyoperator said:


> Levelwind, I own the land, it has been my family since 1921, and the guy next door bought 10 acres next door about 5 or 6 years ago and plus he is a young punk that thinks he can do whatever he wants!! Thanks and how do I lock this thread????


I think a mod has to do that. Well it's still not good, but if he's a young punk and newly bought it and you're the established landowner a lot of political and social concerns go away. Is buying him out an option?

Good luck!


----------



## AvianQuest (Feb 7, 2006)

wallhanger said:


> Taken from the words of a good GW friend of mine, "Being a GW is a dangerous job, when you catch a poacher in the act he has a gun and he knows he is in the wrong. He has a several choices at that point, flee, lie, and or possibly choose to fight and utilize his gun". What part of that possiblity is not LIFE THREATENING to you. You say as you so mentioned previously that confronting them and let them know they are trespassing and verbally warn them to not come back or you will press charges. What if he chooses to fight, points his gun right at you and says screw off, then what? Your little "be firm verbally" tactic got you in a load of ****.


A good friend of mine, a Texas Game Warden, was gunned down by such a trespasser and game thief. This has happened many times in Texas and across the nation.

Once a person takes that first step across the line to become an outlaw, you can never trust that he won't take the next step to killing someone. In a few cases it's already in their mind. The punk who gunned down my friend was told by neighbors that he shouldn't be killing deer out of season off another man's land, but he always replied that if caught he would just kill the warden. In other cases, the perpetrator just snaps and kills the landowner or anyone else who confronts him.

Even without any confrontation, having a trespasser on your hunting lease is a very dangerous situation both for the trespasser and everyone on the lease.


----------



## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

There's two different things going here: are you shooting the guy to defend yourself when he threatens you while holding a rifle? Okay, go for it. Are you shooting him because he's a filthy poacher? That's more than just a little different.


----------



## Fishin' Soldier (Dec 25, 2007)

*Yes Sir*



dwilliams35 said:


> There's two different things going here: are you shooting the guy to defend yourself when he threatens you while holding a rifle? Okay, go for it. Are you shooting him because he's a filthy poacher? That's more than just a little different.


Agree. Well said.


----------



## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

those of you who post with your chest all puffed out stating that the original poster should go over to the scofflaw's house and threaten him, or shoot him, or electrocute him, or even set a bear trap, aren't using that peanut up there that's masquerading as your brain.

and invoking the castle doctrine isn't any smarter, either. poaching is illegal and it disgusts me as much as it does any of you, but we're talking about someone taking a deer illegaly on your property, not someone entering your house and threatening the life of your family members.

as frustrating and time-consuming as it may be at times, handling this through the proper legal and law enforcement channels while providing as much documented evidence as possible (such as photos, affadavits, prior reports, etc), is the smartest and safest course of action. if you don't believe me, you may have plenty of time to research it in the law library someday as you while away your time in huntsville.


----------



## Two Headed Dog (Jun 4, 2009)

*Copper Head Road*

_"I learned a thing from Charlie don't you know...."_

I'd go with some punji stakes in a tiger pit or maybe a Mallacca Mancatcher. Just hope he doesn't have, " the agility of an ape". Good luck with this POS.


----------



## lonestarangler (Aug 3, 2009)

Be wary when go out to your property. Im afraid after shooting he might have different intentions other than poaching from now on. Good luck with this **** guy.


----------



## Fishin' Soldier (Dec 25, 2007)

Pathfinder said:


> Before you start preaching to everyone about laws and when you can or can't use deadly force, you might invest some time to look at the facts. Have you heard of the castle doctrine? It gives people the right to protect their PROPERTY. You do not have to feel that your life or anyone elses is in any danger. The only one that will be in danger is the pos stealing from you.
> 
> See 3 (a) below. In my opinion, if I was one of twelve on a jury, I would interprite that to mean this man has tried all other means to protect his land and deadly force was the only way he felt like he could protect his land.
> 
> ...


Yes that is true but it is just not the right method for salty's predicament. The trespasser is a POs and deserves to be prosecuted but not the death penalty. Your house differant story some comes in the window he should be layed down on the window sill. I amnot disagreeing with you here on what the law says. Just don't shoot someone for something like this.


----------



## Gator gar (Sep 21, 2007)

For 2 calves, gas money and his address, I'll go have a talk with the guy. He'll never see me coming.


----------



## John Galt (Aug 6, 2006)

Before you start preaching to everyone about laws and when you can or can't use deadly force, you might invest some time to ask a defense lawyer or LEO how things REALLY work.

Castle Doctrine is a "Defense to Prosecution." In English, what this means is that even if it works, you've spent thousands of dollars and put your family's life on hold for years wondering if they are ever going to see you again.

I've never tangled with the law. I did have a boss who was collateral damage after Enron blew up and an overzealous prosecutor was hunting scalps (my boss didn't even work for Enron and was acquitted after less than 2 hours deliberation). It took him years and thousands to make up for the derailment in his life.

I'll preface this by agreeing I'm sure we all wish we lived in a Wild West society where we could kill anyone we want to for no reason you can prove in a court of law. I'll even admit I'm a member of the same "Pu**y of the month club" that Justin and MC joined. Still, let's think this through:

--As mentioned above, you're spending thousands of dollars and putting your career and your family's life on hold while you work your way through the criminal justice system. You could get a good plains game hunt in Africa PLUS TAXI for what you're probably going to spend.

--You will probably be tried in the county the alleged crime took place. As Fishin' Soldier, Justin, MC, Levelwind, and C'est Bon all mentioned, your "peers" are the dead scumbag's family, cousins, Sundayschool teacher, etc. They view you as "some rich city slicker who thinks he can kill my neighbor."

--You might be pressured into plea bargaining the murder charge down to something else..that may cost you your job, your right to hunt, your freedom. Even if your lawyer is convinced of your innocence...if your lawyer is worth the money, he may counsel you that, based on his personal experience with that jury pool/that judge/that prosecutor, you're better off taking a 100% chance of 6 months in minimum-security instead of an 85% chance of 15 years in maximum security prison.

--Even if you win, you better not ever show your face in that town again. A Deer stand is a good target. God forbid you bring your family into that environment.

--After you win your criminal case, every sleazy lawyer in the county will be suing you, on contingency, for "Pain and suffering" etc. Their lawyer won't cost them a dime, but it will cost you to defend. Remember OJ beat the rap but was ruined by the civil cases. You will spend thousands more dollars defending what little you have left against a jury pool that is, again, drawn from that small community. If you lose, you'll be paying garnishments for the rest of your life, and you won't be able to afford retirement or any kind of help for your kids.

--I'm sure you're a stone-cold killa. However, local, State, and Federal governments spend millions trying to figure the best way to counsel a LEO or soldier who has had to kill in the line of duty...and that's killing someone who everyone agrees is the bad guy. Sit there in a courtroom for 6 months listening to everyone tell the judge what a great guy the person you killed was, and you will doubt yourself...psychologists are paid hundreds of dollars an hour to coach witnesses on how to screw with a man's mind.

--Talk all you want about "the guy was armed" and "fear for my life," but anyone on this board knows the difference between a man with a gun in your house, and one in some woods. it's all just big talk.

Remember that case in HOU a few years ago, a guy's car was being reposessed, and he leaned is 30-.06 out the window and shot the tow truck driver? Yes, he got off..but it ruined him, and IIRC he committed suicide.

Again, yes, I'm sure I'm a pu**y who is singlehandedly responsible for everything from Obamacare to the Fall of Vietnam. But, I've also learned, painfully, when to stop tilting at windmills.



Pathfinder said:


> Before you start preaching to everyone about laws and when you can or can't use deadly force, you might invest some time to look at the facts. Have you heard of the castle doctrine? It gives people the right to protect their PROPERTY. You do not have to feel that your life or anyone elses is in any danger. The only one that will be in danger is the pos stealing from you.
> 
> See 3 (a) below. In my opinion, if I was one of twelve on a jury, I would interprite that to mean this man has tried all other means to protect his land and deadly force was the only way he felt like he could protect his land.
> 
> ...


----------



## TranTheMan (Aug 17, 2009)

The discussion reminds of this incident.

http://news.minnesota.publicradio.org/features/2004/11/22_kelleherb_huntershooting/.

>The only one that will be in danger is the pos stealing from you.
Unless he is armed and willing to use it, too.


----------



## spiwonka (Jan 29, 2009)

The sad thing is every time you go out, there is a chance of you getting shot. He's probably already on edge from tresspassing, then he see some movement, he wants to hurry up and shoot, get the hell out of there. I would do whatever I could to keep him from tresspassing!! I think I would have various traps out to catch coyotes. I think I would rather someone try to sue me then get shot in the gut!!


----------



## chapman53559 (Jun 19, 2009)

boatlift said:


> Sign up Joe Horn as a lease member, your problems will be solved..
> 
> I really hope someone gets that...


Got it. 
Shame how he ended up.


----------



## Pathfinder (Jun 9, 2004)

John Galt said:


> Before you start preaching to everyone about laws and when you can or can't use deadly force, you might invest some time to ask a defense lawyer or LEO how things REALLY work.
> 
> Castle Doctrine is a "Defense to Prosecution." In English, what this means is that even if it works, you've spent thousands of dollars and put your family's life on hold for years wondering if they are ever going to see you again.
> 
> ...


I won't disagree with anything you said here, but don't assume that I was giving any advice other than copying and pasting the law as it is written. I was pointing out the Castle Doctrine to justinsfa when he was stating you could not shoot anyone unless you or someone elses life is threatened. Our laws, as they are clearly written give us the right to protect our property as well. Does this mean it is black and white or will apply everytime you think your property or land is at risk? NO. Like all of our laws, they are subject to interpretation which is a big part of whats wrong with our judicial system.

At no point did I say he should shoot this guy. At no point did I say I would shoot this guy. Nor did I go into details about what happens if you use deadly force for any reason, justified or not. I DID say that if I were on a jury of 12 and this man can prove he has exhausted all efforts to prevent this same man from continually trespassing, we have laws written that can be used. What I failed to point out, is that the laws I posted are merely a defense to prosecution. You are still subject to a grand juy.

Off the subject of this thread (kinda)... Is a police officer who carries a gun knowing he may have to use it to enforce the laws and protect you and I a "stone-cold killa"? Is a soldier who shoots someone in battle a "stone-cold kill"? Is a man who protects himself or his property with deadly force a "stone-cold killa"? In my opinion, absolutely not!


----------



## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

John Galt said:


> I'll even admit I'm a member of the same "Pu**y of the month club" that Justin and MC joined.


you may call it the "p*ssy of the month club," but i call it the "thinking with my head instead of my d*ck club."


----------



## Pathfinder (Jun 9, 2004)

mastercylinder said:


> you may call it the "p*ssy of the month club," but i call it the "thinking with my head instead of my d*ck club."


And you don't have much to think about either.

Just messing with ya' MC! I had to take the swing at that pitch. :wink:


----------



## crazycowboy (Dec 7, 2009)

Levelwind said:


> If you *really* go after this guy, in the system or on your own, figure out where you'll be if you lose and he wins. Whips your ***, shoots you, wins in court and becomes even more brazen . . what's your next move, Bucky?
> 
> When I say "social aspects" do you own this property and do you or your family live on it? And how about the guy next door? Is he a full time resident? In the country, when I grew up, neighbors were your most important asset and a bad one was your worst nightmare. Does this guy feel entitled to hunt your land because it was in his family for generations and "stolen" by a bank? Or is he just an old hold out, like a lot of guys my age from a different place where only ********* posted their property against hunting, infuriating local WWII vets who came back to find they couldn't hunt on land they'd been fighting to protect, while the wienies who stayed home and made money off the war bought up property and put signs all over it.


wow so you think because someone is a veteran they should be able to poach off land? or simply because someone didn't pay their mortgage lost their land and still thinks its theirs ? why in the hell does it matter ? you either own property or you don't if you don't there is no excuse to rape another mans property.


----------



## chickenkiller (May 24, 2004)

Whats this guys name?


----------



## CoastalOutfitters (Aug 20, 2004)

paint your fence post tops purple , and put up some posted sings
then call the GW again and tell him what you did and that you want to prosecute tresspassers.

do the same w the sherriff dept.

nothing like a good paper trail


----------



## John Galt (Aug 6, 2006)

Pathfinder said:


> Off the subject of this thread (kinda)... Is a police officer who carries a gun knowing he may have to use it to enforce the laws and protect you and I a "stone-cold killa"? Is a soldier who shoots someone in battle a "stone-cold kill"? Is a man who protects himself or his property with deadly force a "stone-cold killa"? In my opinion, absolutely not!


Please re-read the post. I said that the "Kill 'Em All, let God Sort 'Em Out" posters may be stone-cold killas, but Federal, State, and Local governments spend millions of dollars trying to counsel soldiers and LEO's (normal guys) who have been put in that position...and that's when everyone around them agrees that they did what they had to do.

Sorry if that wasn't clear...the point was, LEO's and soldiers have resources and support of their peers to help them deal with taking someone's life, and not only does a civilian NOT have that, but the opposing lawyer and all his consultants are actively trying to make him doubt himself.

I assume that was an honest misinterpretation on your part based on unclear writing on my part...right?


----------



## John Galt (Aug 6, 2006)

Pathfinder said:


> Like all of our laws, they are subject to interpretation which is a big part of whats wrong with our judicial system.


Interpretation is what's right with our judicial system.

If you've ever written computer code, tried to explain in writing how to fish, or reviewed a contract for corporate bonds, you know it's impossible to cover every possible contingency.

Instead of trying write a law to take the interpretation out of every situation (was he 10 feet over the line or 11? 10' 5"? Was he looking in your direction? Was the rifle slung or in his hand, and was the bolt open or closed?) I'd rather let 12 of my fellow citizens hear all the facts and hope that at least one of them has the judgment recognize a "reasonable doubt."

The right to a jury trial, enshrined in the 6th Amendment to the US Constitution, is something your fellow citizens have been bleeding to protect for over 220 years. I don't think I'd let you give it away in such a cavalier fashion.


----------



## Triad_Marine (Aug 31, 2009)

I have land in Oklahoma from my parents when they divorced...My brother's and I have a time trying to keep people out...Someone too a car there last year and torched it.... But we have noticed this year a lot of the deer are gone...Only one brother hunts and watches over everything but I hate poachers


----------



## Pathfinder (Jun 9, 2004)

Interesting turn of events for me. One of the guys went to our lease this last weekend to find some pos used their truck to ram their way through our front gate. Knocked the iron gate off the hinges and smashed it to hell. He did not think anything was missing, but was not sure. He didn't know that I put my game camera out, so hopefully it's still there and I got their pics. The audacity of people never ceases to amaze me.


----------



## nightgigger (Oct 13, 2008)

Maybe a little off topic, but when I was little say 5 or 6 we saw a man who came in and fished our farm ponds. We let the air out of all of his car tires. He had to go up to my uncle's house and explain what he was doing and ask for help. I don't remember much, but he took his hat off when he talked to my uncle.


----------



## Main Frame 8 (Mar 16, 2007)

How many of these "just shoot him" guys out there have actually taken another human's life with a gun? I suspect that trigger gets a lot heavier than squezzing off on a doe. 

Anyone?


----------



## rjhiv (Dec 13, 2008)

has anyone used one of the game cameras that sends the picture to your computer as soon as it takes it. if they really work you could use one of these. even if he stole the camera you would have a picture of him doing it.


----------

