# Long range scopes



## TexasBoy79 (Jan 5, 2009)

Anyone have have a recommendation for an economic scope? Is it really worth the extra dollars for a front focal plane scope. Are the Nightforce and leupold mark 4 cost justifiable? I'd like to start learning the science of gauging distance and holdovers with mildot reticles. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

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## artys_only (Mar 29, 2005)

*Yes.*

Check out longrangehunting.com and sniper hide.com great information with a lot of guys do all the home work for you , you can learn a lot from other !


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## TexasFlats (Mar 29, 2007)

A good article here.


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## CoastalOutfitters (Aug 20, 2004)

6.5X20 leupo vxIII ao. w duplex x-hairs

will carry you far enough 


it's a target scope for good reason


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## TexasBoy79 (Jan 5, 2009)

Thanks for all the comments. Some good imput here.

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## Wolf6151 (Jun 13, 2005)

I'd look seriously at the Vortex Viper scopes, serious quality optics for those on a budget.


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## prarie dog (Feb 28, 2011)

I was trying to figure this out a few years ago and bought an 8-32 X 56 Sightron with a mildot reticle. They have a chart that allows you to use the mildot's for ranging. I use a LRF 1200 Leica rangefinder and use the mildots for holdover-under at various ranges. Works nice Prairie Dog shooting.


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## bigfishtx (Jul 17, 2007)

Wolf6151 said:


> I'd look seriously at the Vortex Viper scopes, serious quality optics for those on a budget.


Good post. I have a Viper PST and also a Viper HR-LR and both are very good scopes. ( I also have a Nightforce, it is better, but, for the money you can't beat Vortex.)


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## Bantam1 (Jun 26, 2007)

What are your uses for the scope going to be? Long range target? Hunting? Mall Ninja Sniper? Do you need turrets (mils or MOA)? Side focus paralax adjustment? Illuminated? Mil Dot? Variable power or fixed? How far are you going to shoot? There are several options out there. You need to determine what your needs are first. Then find everything that has the features you need/want. Figure out your budget and start from there. Once you find a few you like start looking for reviews. Go to the local rifle range and ask people what they think about their choice of optics. 

My rule of thumb is buy the best you can afford. Quality glass costs money. Some say to spend as much on the optic as you did on the rifle. Some spend more.


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## skipjack express (May 11, 2010)

Swfa super snipers are priced right


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## TexasBoy79 (Jan 5, 2009)

Bantam1 said:


> What are your uses for the scope going to be? Long range target? Hunting? Mall Ninja Sniper? Do you need turrets (mils or MOA)? Side focus paralax adjustment? Illuminated? Mil Dot? Variable power or fixed? How far are you going to shoot? There are several options out there. You need to determine what your needs are first. Then find everything that has the features you need/want. Figure out your budget and start from there. Once you find a few you like start looking for reviews. Go to the local rifle range and ask people what they think about their choice of optics.
> 
> My rule of thumb is buy the best you can afford. Quality glass costs money. Some say to spend as much on the optic as you did on the rifle. Some spend more.


Long range target, maybe move into hunting when I reach the level where I'd be shocked missing at the range I was shooting. I'd like to hone my skills to reach out to about 600 yards or so. Definitely need turrets at probably 1/4 moa unless there is an advantage going with mil adjustments instead. I'd prefer variable but that's what I'm trying to understand better. Illuminated would be a definite plus but not absolute for my needs. What does the parallax adjustment do? Definate mil dots as I want to learn the science of range estimating with them.


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## Bantam1 (Jun 26, 2007)

MOA makes for easy math but the mil dots are in mils, so it makes for easier adjustments once you have determined your distance. I use a Mark 4 3x10 with 1/2 MOA adjustments and the TMR reticle. I like it for quicker adjustments to dial up elevation and easier to range targets because of the straigth lines instead of dots.

If you are only shooting to 600 then you do not need a ton of power unless you are match shooting and need to shoot tiny groups at that distance. I shoot to 1000 with the 10X and have no complaints. My buddy uses a 20X and he likes it. I like a little more field of view for shot corrections. He likes to see more target than FOV.

The side focus is easier to use for me. This allows you to adjust parallax at any range. Here is an article on parallax. They do a better job of explaining it than I would:

http://www.6mmbr.com/parallax.html

If you are just getting into this and do not have a custom or semi custom rifle, then you can buy a less expensive optic to learn with. I have no idea what your rifle is capable of or your skills. Personally I would rather buy good glass and then upgrade the rifle as you can afford it. I am not an expert by any means but I do know that quality is something you do not want to sacrifice when it comes to optics.


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## TexasBoy79 (Jan 5, 2009)

Bantam1 said:


> MOA makes for easy math but the mil dots are in mils, so it makes for easier adjustments once you have determined your distance. I use a Mark 4 3x10 with 1/2 MOA adjustments and the TMR reticle. I like it for quicker adjustments to dial up elevation and easier to range targets because of the straigth lines instead of dots.
> 
> If you are only shooting to 600 then you do not need a ton of power unless you are match shooting and need to shoot tiny groups at that distance. I shoot to 1000 with the 10X and have no complaints. My buddy uses a 20X and he likes it. I like a little more field of view for shot corrections. He likes to see more target than FOV.
> 
> ...


I have a pretty strong rifle, its not a custom job but it should shoot .05 MOA with the right load. I've holed several targets at 100 yards with it. I have a remington 700 5r milspec .308. I like the idea of the 20 x as I would like to try for 1000 after I get the hang of 600. That said, sounds like 10x is more than enough for your needs.

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## CoastalOutfitters (Aug 20, 2004)

for targets, 


then esp. as i suggested, and you don't want heavy crosshairs punching paper, get the fine duplex


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## Ernest (May 21, 2004)

Have two long range scopes. One with a fine duplex, one with the varmt. reticle. I have come to semi-hate the varmt. reticle. Far too busy for my tastes. 

On power, you can't really shoot tighter than you can see. At 600 yards with 10x, its very tough to hold the same point of aim shot to shot (assuming you are not on a bench with the weapon clamped down hard). Moving over a bullet hole or an inch is virtually impossible. Partly because its real, real, real tough to even see a .30 cal. hole at 600 yrds. with only 10x. At 20x, its real, real, real tough to see a .223 hole at even 300 yrds.


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## Bantam1 (Jun 26, 2007)

I have the same rifle as Texas Boy and use a 3.5 x 10. I have a little work done to the rifle but I have not touched the barrel or chamber. I am not shooting match style so I just need to make sure I score a hit. The spotting scope has way more zoom and I use that to check the target if needed. The range I shoot at has steel to 600. Its easy to see your hits against a black or red painted pig or square. 

If you are shooting for groups at 600 then by all means look at something with more power. I have more of a tactical style rifle and not a bench/match rifle.


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## Pocketfisherman (May 30, 2005)

Wolf6151 said:


> I'd look seriously at the Vortex Viper scopes, serious quality optics for those on a budget.


I second that. Very clear optics, solid build, and capability that others charge twice as much for.


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## THE JAMMER (Aug 1, 2005)

I have Leupold Mk IV 6.5-20 on my PSS, and love it. 

I know the following isn't sexy, but it is pretty good quality, but overall very inexpensive- I just ordered from Midway a Nikon Monarch 4-16 with mil dot reticle for $359.95. Putting it on my kids Model 7 7mm-08.

16 power is pretty good, and the Nikon Monarch is a pretty good quality scope. Don't get me wrong- certainly not trying to compare this to Nightforce, Leupold Tactical, Swarovski, etc. Just seemed like a pretty good deal for a scope whose power and reticle might serve very well.


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## Bantam1 (Jun 26, 2007)

I forgot I had this picture saved. This is through my Mark 4 set at 10X. The rocks are 591 yards away. Trying to take a pic with a digital camera looking through a scope is not easy. It looks a little closer when you are looking through the optic with your eye and much clearer. The picture really does not do justice to how clear the galss is. This was a ground squirrel removal trip for a cattle rancher we met.


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## Screeminreel (Jun 2, 2004)

I can add to some of what has been posted here. Several years back I build a LR rig from the ground up. I mounted a 5.5x22 Nightforce on top. Over the course of a year and ahalf of playing around with it I found that much over 16X is a waste here in the TX heat and humidity at anything more than around 600yds. This said my bud purchased the 3.5x15 for his and it is WAY more user friendly. While the prices nowadays are well above what we got ours for they are still top of the line scopes. 

If I were to toss out a less cost I could easily go with either the Nikon's or the Burris with the mil dots. I have several of the Burris 4.5x14's that have their ballistic mil dot reticle in them. I have found they work right with the added drop charts they provide with them for the factory listed velocities or the bullet weights and velocities listed. 

Also I highly second the recommendation to head over to Long Range Hunting as well. Plenty of info there as well as articals to browse through from actual field testing of plenty of different optics.


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## w_r_ranch (Jan 14, 2005)

Just bought a Vortex Viper HS LR 4-16x50 for a new gun that I'm currently building (should be here Wednesday). Still waiting on tracking number for the American Defense AD-RECON mount for it though...

I also have a Nightforce NXS 12-42X 56mm sitting on top of my McMillan TAC-50.


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## RedFly (Mar 22, 2010)

You get what you pay for 90% of the time, but here's my list of scope's I'd recommend from cheap to best:

*Under $100*
Leapers 
+ lots of features/options, stong and holds zero, optics "good enough" for cheap beginners
- thick reticles, heavy, turret adjustments aren't repeatable at this price level

*About $200*
Bushnell Elite 3200 fixed x10
+ best bang for your buck truly long distance scope used in competition
- fixed power, but that means less lenses so more light comes in, pay more for a variable version

Vortex Diamondback 
+ this is the Japanese company that is beating old favorites like Nikon
- still kinda new/untested

*About $300*
Millet
+ very trusted, durable scope even under heavy abuse
- heavy

Nikon
+ Still good optics for the money
- mostly made in China now instead of Japan

SWFA SS
+ Great scope for this price point, geared towards long-distance more than the others above

*About $400*
Vortex Viper
+ making a big splash for quality - using better materials than others for less $
- price can double based on options

*About $500*
Leupold VXIII 
+ Great all-around scope, most popular for a reason
Ziess
+ a basic one that is

For those with no budget (I'm not there yet):
Trijicon
Leupold Mark4 and better
Lieca
Swarovski
NightForce - the real deal

just remember this is just one lowly man's opinion...

oh yeah here's two really good places to look:
http://swfa.com/Riflescopes-C1443.aspx
http://www.opticsplanet.net/riflescopes.html


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## Wado (May 15, 2011)

Just bought a "Hawke" scope.I hope it isn't junk I am running out of 22's to put cheap scopes on.


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## goatchze (Aug 1, 2006)

If you plan on ranging with mildots, FFP is a really nice thing to have IMO. Went to the in-laws for the first time shooting out to 1000 yds (man was that fun!) and one rifle had an FFP reticle, the other was SFP.

It was really nice to be able to adjust the magnification for shorter targets and not worry about how I've changed all the calculations when ranging, figuring hold over, etc.


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