# Dodge 2500 vs. F250 I am trying to decide



## ALL OUT OUTFITTERS (Apr 21, 2010)

What are yalls opinions on which is better. I am looking for a 06-08 model of either one with less than 90k miles Diesel 4x4. Which one gets...

Best MPG? Towing a boat


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## bobbyoshay (Nov 29, 2008)

Depends on which year you actually get. I dont care for the ford 6.0 motor (06 and 07) but love the 6.4 in the 08. Wake up the monster of the 6.4 with the cat and dpf delete and its a completely different truck than stock. 

The 06 and 07 dodge have good motors but i cant say the same for the 08. My uncle had 2 horrible trucks with the 08 model dodges that both went lemon law. Only way i would go dodge would be the 06 or 07 but you will still have to worry about the rest of the truck falling apart. The ford interior is much nicer IMHO as well


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## devil1824 (Sep 4, 2010)

Huge difference there in year models. I agree with bobbyoshay about the 6.4. DPF delete and u got a beast with just a programmer. I have a 06 dodge 2500. I have 123,000 miles on it stock. Put front brake pads on it yesterday and took about 30 minutes. I also have put a alternator on it. It was also pretty straight forward and have replaced both batteries. I love the cummins engine and plan on handing this truck down to my son in 4yrs when he is 16. I haven't checked but I bet there is a big difference in price from 06 to 08 because of the engines. Cummins should win hands down on mpg. Highway I have gotten as high as 23 and city 18. Pulling a 17ft bass boat doesn't affect it. When I had a 24ft pontoon it would drop to 16. Ford interior is nicer. I've had both.


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## juanpescado (Dec 22, 2006)

I have an 08 F350 work truck with the powerjoke, I promise all my buddies Dodges will destroy the Ford, 60,000 miles and tranny is slipping, it runs weak, allready smoking, sensors stay on all the time, dealer doesnt much care, glad its a company truck or I would be furious, actually looking for dodge cummings 4x4 for myself now.....


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## KID CREOLE (Oct 28, 2005)

It's spelled CUMMINS, jeeze! At least the Ford guys can spell CUMMINS


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## ProjectDrift (Nov 9, 2010)

I have an 2006 F-350 single wheel base with the 6.0 in it...My advice is to run as far as you can from the 6.0!!! Mine has acted up for a year now with different fuel problems. I have been stranded on 3 different times in the past 2 months...I do think they have this worked out with the newer models but again, RUN from the 6.0!!!


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## juanpescado (Dec 22, 2006)

KID CREOLE said:


> It's spelled CUMMINS, jeeze! At least the Ford guys can spell CUMMINS


You really that bored, or do you have some credible info for the man who posted, just wondering...


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## Capt.Thomas White (Feb 9, 2005)

I know you asked about the 06 - 08 but I have a 2005 Dodge 4x4 crew cab with the 5.9L CTD with 253,000 miles on it and have not had any problems. I have replaced the batteries, brake pads and u-joints but that is normal wear. The interior is holding up great, I have it detailed once a year and it still looks good. I have been running Amsoil synthetic once it hit 100,000 mile. I change it and the fuel filter every 10,000. The truck pulls a 23ft explorer boat and a 12,000 lb 30ft travel trailer no problem. I know now that I have said all this the thing will go tits up anytime. lol


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## jam1227 (Nov 2, 2007)

i say go with dodge , but stay with the 5.9 ctd not the 6.7, they have too many problems. i think the fords have too much *** sag when they are pulling a trailer with some weight.


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## cclayton01 (Jun 6, 2005)

bass0120 said:


> What are yalls opinions on which is better. I am looking for a 06-08 model of either one with less than 90k miles Diesel 4x4. Which one gets...
> 
> Best MPG? Towing a boat


I would look for a Dodge with the 5.9L CTD. I believe the last year they were in the trucks was 2007. Correct me if I'm wrong Dodge followers, lol.


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## devil1824 (Sep 4, 2010)

In 07 u can get a 5.9, 07.5 is the 6.7.


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## younggun55 (Jun 18, 2009)

juanpescado said:


> I have an 08 F350 work truck with the powerjoke, I promise all my buddies Dodges will destroy the Ford, 60,000 miles and tranny is slipping, it runs weak, allready smoking, sensors stay on all the time, dealer doesnt much care, glad its a company truck or I would be furious, actually looking for dodge cummings 4x4 for myself now.....


If your smoking already and have cels you more than likely have a cracked dpf. And something is up if your tranny is slipping, either running a generic tuner, or something because I have daily drove my truck on 38's and 550+ hp for over 40k and it's never missed a beat. As far as apowerjoke goes, any of your dodge buddies want to run let me know :dance: I've rsn countless 5.9's with built trannys and level and never been close.


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## devil1824 (Sep 4, 2010)

Oh hell here we go!


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## wellconnected (May 30, 2005)

I own a 06 dodge megacab 4x4 diesel......BUY THE FORD!!!!


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## coup de grace (Aug 7, 2010)

cclayton01 said:


> I would look for a Dodge with the 5.9L CTD. I believe the last year they were in the trucks was 2007. Correct me if I'm wrong Dodge followers, lol.


*your correct, best motor...*


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## buckbuddy (Sep 1, 2008)

coup de grace said:


> *your correct, best motor...*


*X3........I have the early '07 (5.9)....LOVE IT !!!!*


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## younggun55 (Jun 18, 2009)

coup de grace said:


> *your correct, best motor...*


The 5.9 is definitely a awesome motor, and reliable as hell. No egr system or anything to mess with like the newer motors where you have to go out of your way and delete the emission equipment to make them reliable.


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## TOM WEBER (Aug 14, 2005)

Get the 07 5.9. Have one with 85k . Towed a 36 Contender for a while. 12 mpg. 18-20 mpg light. Know a local tow driver who tells me he tows a lot of Fords. The engine is not easily serviceable either. Talk to a mechanic who works on diesels to get better info instead of single opinions. I bought mine as the new motor was coming out and had to look for the older motor in a truck...glad I did. TW


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## FISHINGARTIST (Dec 14, 2004)

Ford just gave me a 200000 mile extended warranty on my 08 after my exhaust sensors kept leaving me stranded. I drive it like I stole it now with no worries and I haven't had any problems knock on wood. Pulls like a train and cruises w/out trailer to the tune of about 16 mpg. Completely stock. I travel the country in my truck so having plenty of dealers to fix the truck is more important than the truck running perfect, which no matter which vehicle you get will NOT be perfect. Unless you baby it of course.


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## saltup83 (Jul 15, 2010)

cclayton01 said:


> I would look for a Dodge with the 5.9L CTD. I believe the last year they were in the trucks was 2007. Correct me if I'm wrong Dodge followers, lol.


 I believe your right...they went to the 6.7 in 2007.5 years. I have an 03' 5.9 cummins with now 112,000 miles and love it. i have never had any problems with it. Just change my oil and fuel filter every 7,500 miles and have only had to replace my front brake pads once in the 3 yrs i have had it. I get 23mpg on the hwy and 18-19 in the city. It's a wonderful truck and has plenty of power when needed. I would lean towards a dodge with the 5.9L. I hope this helps in your decision. :dance:


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## cclayton01 (Jun 6, 2005)

saltup83 said:


> I believe your right...they went to the 6.7 in 2007.5 years. I have an 03' 5.9 cummins with now 112,000 miles and love it. i have never had any problems with it. Just change my oil and fuel filter every 7,500 miles and have only had to replace my front brake pads once in the 3 yrs i have had it. I get 23mpg on the hwy and 18-19 in the city. It's a wonderful truck and has plenty of power when needed. I would lean towards a dodge with the 5.9L. I hope this helps in your decision. :dance:


I almost bought an '07 2500 with the 5.9L but the dealer couldn't find one in the right color. He offered me the same truck but with the 6.7L for a good price but I declined. Looking back, I'm glad I opted out after reading some of the stories associated with the 6.7L.


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## BANGaRANG (Aug 23, 2009)

'03 Dodge 5.9Lt 4x4 110k miles, I average 16mpg between city and hwy on 33" tires. Triple dog programmer and Banks cold air intake. My mechanic for my last diesel said to buy a cummins.


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## marksmu (Dec 4, 2008)

I've got an 06 F250 4x4, made in 06, bought in 06....Its been good to me. 91,000 miles with only one problem - my high pressure regulator cracked at 90,000 miles about 2 weeks ago. Ford replaced it under warranty and gave me a loaner car for the day.

It tows well, but fuel mileage is awful when towing. Its my daily driver and its got just short of 3,000 hours on the engine. It gets about 21 hwy if you stay at or below 2,000rpm (70mph) at 60 it gets about 24mpg. At 72 its down to 18 or so....75 its about 16.8, 80mph your down to 15.

City driving is pretty bad if your heavy footed, it varies from 12-15.8

I think they are mostly all the same now-a-days. If you get one built by the right shift, you will be fine with few problems. If you get one built in the wrong shift by the wrong guys, you'll have problems. The trucks are all pretty similar...its all about the guys putting them together IMHO.


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## jmack (Dec 7, 2006)

Have you considered a Duramax ?


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## BANGaRANG (Aug 23, 2009)

Duramax?! Pft! 3 pages before GM enters the conversation.


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## juanpescado (Dec 22, 2006)

younggun55 said:


> If your smoking already and have cels you more than likely have a cracked dpf. And something is up if your tranny is slipping, either running a generic tuner, or something because I have daily drove my truck on 38's and 550+ hp for over 40k and it's never missed a beat. As far as apowerjoke goes, any of your dodge buddies want to run let me know :dance: I've rsn countless 5.9's with built trannys and level and never been close.


Actually like I said, the truck is a company truck, I got it new and hate it, I will never EVER buy another FORD diesel, i've owned a 94 ford diesel, a 2001 ford diesel and now I have this co. truck which is the newest ford diesel, if yours is as great as you say it is then more power to u ya, your one of the few, the dodge has always been stronger and has a lot better track record, just saying, and why do you have 550 horsepower on a truck with 40k miles, A-you voided your warranty, or B-you have enough money to not care, just saying....:dance:


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## bobbyoshay (Nov 29, 2008)

juanpescado said:


> Actually like I said, the truck is a company truck, I got it new and hate it, I will never EVER buy another FORD diesel, i've owned a 94 ford diesel, a 2001 ford diesel and now I have this co. truck which is the newest ford diesel, if yours is as great as you say it is then more power to u ya, your one of the few, the dodge has always been stronger and has a lot better track record, just saying, and why do you have 550 horsepower on a truck with 40k miles, A-you voided your warranty, or B-you have enough money to not care, just saying....:dance:


he didnt necessarily void his warranty! im sitting north of 550 hp and use it as a daily driver! few turns of the wrench and its back to stock with no trace. its very nice to have some DA start to mess with you and you leave them looking stupid with the power. Im sitting at 80k on my truck and its a running and pulling mofo!


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## DSL_PWR (Jul 22, 2009)

Get the Ford. Be the best purchase you ever made. 

I bought my first Ford back in 07 after years of driving gm stuff. I have never looked back...


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## fishnfool (Jul 23, 2004)

The 6.4 is an awesome motor once you get rid of all the EPA **** that comes on it - get rid of cat and DPF and disable EGR and you'll have ability for lots of power, good mileage, and many trouble free miles. The way they come from the factory leaves a little to be desired...

I would never own a Dodge truck and because of that have no experience with Cummins so can't comment other than what I've heard (which is 5.9 is great and 6.7 is not).

Duramax is a great choice if you like Chevy's. I had an 08 and liked it but just wanted back in a Ford. IMO the Ford truck is hands down superioir to the others.


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## bailout2860 (Jan 23, 2009)

*ford and dodge are fighting for second place, right????*

:work:


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## goodwood (Mar 30, 2009)

Duramax designed by the awesome Isuzu company.


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## KID CREOLE (Oct 28, 2005)

juanpescado said:


> You really that bored, or do you have some credible info for the man who posted, just wondering...


Sure I do, if you want a great reliable, easy to work on with plenty of power buy a Ford with a 7.3 PSD.

The preffered years are 2000 and 2001 witht he forged rods, if you plan on leaving it near stock, then any 7.3 PSD from 1999 to 2003 will be just fine!

Here's what you do!

Buy a early 2000-2002 Ford PSD that has been maintianed(check records for oil type and correct coolant maint) with a 150,000 or so miles for $10 to $15,000, order a BTS tranny or John Woods( Google them, they run $4,000 to $5000).

Now you have a great truck, with a new tranny for$15000 to $20,000 that will run another 300,000 miles

If you want to do mods, put in a set of gauges that have to include EGT guage and tranny temp guage, put in a 4" ehxhaust and finally put in a Banks or a ARAID intake. You should also consider a SUperchips programmed, either a 1700 or 1705

How's that for info?

Oh, if you have a supply of vegetable oil, like I do, these 7.3 PSD can converted over to run on used or new vegatable oil for $1500

Need any more info than that?


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## CoastalOutfitters (Aug 20, 2004)

you want pretty and roomy, buy the Ford

you want a haul truck but the Dodge

look at what the independent hotshot drivers all drive,,,,,,,,,,,,dodges

will likely win in the mileage dept as well


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## redman35 (Jul 1, 2008)

dodge 2500


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## TunaTango (Dec 6, 2009)

My buddy has an 08 ford 250 and he says its so bad he has to chain it down at night  

I'll stick with my 91 dodge 5.9L 12V I have the new diesel bug but every time I see the sticker price I change my mind :spineyes: 

Would go with Dodge if it were me!


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## juanpescado (Dec 22, 2006)

KID CREOLE said:


> Sure I do, if you want a great reliable, easy to work on with plenty of power buy a Ford with a 7.3 PSD.
> 
> The preffered years are 2000 and 2001 witht he forged rods, if you plan on leaving it near stock, then any 7.3 PSD from 1999 to 2003 will be just fine!
> 
> ...


Actually not good info at all, I had a "2001" powerjoke and nothing but problems, the dealer BSd around with it till the warranty ran out and then I was SOL, to top it off the 3 different FORD mechanics that worked on them said those years of jokes were killing them, they didnt get it right during the transition years so your info is out the window in my eyes, IMO the 2001 was the biggest POS a Ford man could own, I wasnt the only one with injector and head problems, I wasnt the only one that felt the turbo layout was weak either, if had driven a 2001 cummins alongside a 2001 joke as I had done you would notice an almost 50% difference between the 2, so with that being said, nah, thats not enough info for me....


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## juanpescado (Dec 22, 2006)

And spending that kinda money to make it run like a Dodge is insane, why not just buy the dodge, with your "upgrades" you could buy a 2 year old truck with less miles than you stated above....


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## rockyraider (Feb 1, 2006)

5.9 Cummins is the best diesel motor made IMHO. Its a great all around motor considering durability, pulling power, longevity, and fuel economy. I have friends who have owned or own Powerstrokes and Cummins and they all say the Cummins is by far the best. I've seen way too many problems from the Powerstrokes, none from the Cummins. I love my '00 Cummins. 200k miles, 20mpg on the highway, and it pulls great. The truck is solid too, power windows work, a/c blows cold, no rattles, cruise works, 4wd works, etc.... Easy to maintain and work on too.


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## bobbyoshay (Nov 29, 2008)

i dont think anyone is saying that the older dodges aren't badasss......the 5.9 was a great engine. the new dodges and the old dodges are completely different animals......with the later being more of a puzzy.....no matter what you get as far as a new diesel.....they all suck until you get rid of the emissions crapola and either the ford or duramax are the best once that chit is removed


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## pwrstrkr (Oct 5, 2010)

Every truck is going to have its downfalls...i know many diesel mechanics and all of them drive Fords. But i have seen both with injector and head issues. dont get me wrong yeah with fords torque to yield head bolts they do have problems with head gaskets, but then ive seen dodges with less than 1000 miles have every injector changed at least once. i drive an 03 F-250 SD with 9" of lift, 38's, 4" TURBO back exhaust, cold air intake, EGR delete and i still get 17-18 MPG highway and 15-16 in town. also i can back up to anything that i want and pull it like a scalded ape. with all of the emissions BS now days is where diesel trucks get their bad reputation. To me it is all an opinion thing whether your a dodge or ford kind of guy.


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## rockyraider (Feb 1, 2006)

bobbyoshay said:


> i dont think anyone is saying that the older dodges aren't badasss......the 5.9 was a great engine. the new dodges and the old dodges are completely different animals......with the later being more of a puzzy.....no matter what you get as far as a new diesel.....they all suck until you get rid of the emissions crapola and either the ford or duramax are the best once that chit is removed


The reason I spoke of the 5.9 Cummins and didn't say anything about the 6.7 Cummins is for one, I don't know anything about them, and two, the original poster was asking about Ford and Dodge from '06-'08. These years allow him to buy the 5.9 Cummins or the 6.0/6.4 Powerstroke. The 6.0's are junk in stock form and would take several thousand dollars to make right. I have a buddy that has the 6.4 Ford and he says it runs great but he can't get over 15mpg. He's pretty unhappy about that. The 5.9 Cummins in either '06 or '07 is a great motor with just a CAT delete and a mild tuner. Hell, stock it probably gets 20mpg on the highway. My next truck will be the lowest mileage '07 5.9 Cummins I can find.


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## pwrstrkr (Oct 5, 2010)

rockyraider said:


> The reason I spoke of the 5.9 Cummins and didn't say anything about the 6.7 Cummins is for one, I don't know anything about them, and two, the original poster was asking about Ford and Dodge from '06-'08. These years allow him to buy the 5.9 Cummins or the 6.0/6.4 Powerstroke. The 6.0's are junk in stock form and would take several thousand dollars to make right. I have a buddy that has the 6.4 Ford and he says it runs great but he can't get over 15mpg. He's pretty unhappy about that. The 5.9 Cummins in either '06 or '07 is a great motor with just a CAT delete and a mild tuner. Hell, stock it probably gets 20mpg on the highway. My next truck will be the lowest mileage '07 5.9 Cummins I can find.


 You are right. But like i said before EVERY truck is going to have its downfalls. Dodges 5.9 is the best motor that they have ever built, and the 6.7...well from the ones that i have drove they just dont have the umph and get-up-and go like the 5.9 does. one of my good friends has an 07 F-250 SD with a 6.0 with lift on 38's with a mild programer, intake and exhaust getting 22MPG highway....So I think i will stick with what i had said before and yeah it is just my own .02 but out of all trucks you are going to have your bad eggs in the mix and it all boils down to personal opinion


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## curious (Apr 5, 2006)

Don't buy a ford unless you are buying a 2011. The last two diesel motors that ford put in their trucks are junk.


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## LIVIN (Oct 31, 2006)

I have a 2007 Ford F250 w/ 6.0l. 
It has been very good to me but I would be hesitant to purchase a used one due to the fact of their issues in the past. If you find one make sure a full oasis report is pulled to determine history of truck.
Even though the 5.9l cummins is a proven engine to say the least, I personally don't like anything else that surrounds it(interior, exterior etc).
If your looking for a used truck, the Duramax w/ Allison transmission seems to be the best overall package.
Great looking truck, very comfortable interior, rides great, decent mileage and seems to have little to no issues.
This is the route I would consider.......

Now, back to my '07 6.0l...I have reaaly enjoyed it and have towed in excess of 13,000lb many times in all types of conditions. It has never stuttered nor given me any issues. 
I have included a few pics to give you an idea of the loads I tow.

Good luck!


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## rockyraider (Feb 1, 2006)

pwrstrkr said:


> You are right. But like i said before EVERY truck is going to have its downfalls. Dodges 5.9 is the best motor that they have ever built, and the 6.7...well from the ones that i have drove they just dont have the umph and get-up-and go like the 5.9 does. one of my good friends has an 07 F-250 SD with a 6.0 with lift on 38's with a mild programer, intake and exhaust getting 22MPG highway....So I think i will stick with what i had said before and yeah it is just my own .02 but out of all trucks you are going to have your bad eggs in the mix and it all boils down to personal opinion


I agree with you, they all have their quirks. I personally know several people who have had or currently have 6.0's and there is no way I'd own one. I do believe that you can probably take care of most of the issues with the right mods, but even then they are much more complicated and harder to maintain than the 5.9. It sucks to hear that the 6.7 Cummins is so much different than the 5.9, I wonder why they would produce a Cummins like this?

I think Livin is right on too, I would have to seriously consider the D-Max if I were looking for an '08 or newer. I don't think they can be beat and I've heard really good things.


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## rugger (Jul 17, 2009)

LIVIN said:


> I have a 2007 Ford F250 w/ 6.0l.
> It has been very good to me but I would be hesitant to purchase a used one due to the fact of their issues in the past. If you find one make sure a full oasis report is pulled to determine history of truck.
> Even though the 5.9l cummins is a proven engine to say the least, I personally don't like anything else that surrounds it(interior, exterior etc).
> If your looking for a used truck, the Duramax w/ Allison transmission seems to be the best overall package.
> ...


How many boats do you have?!?!?!?


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## pwrstrkr (Oct 5, 2010)

LIVIN


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## THUNDER 113 (Apr 19, 2010)

I have had both, f-250 with 7.3 turbo , just traded it in on the Dodge 2500 with the 5.9, the dodge hands down to me the better Truck....


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## pwrstrkr (Oct 5, 2010)

LIVIN i totally agree with you also. The duramax HD with the allison has finally got the bugs worked out and are an awesome truck! all you need is a mild programmer and get ready to burn and buy tires! they hold up to the elements and are confortable. I also agree with you about the interior in dodges, they are poorly designed to ME and will not hold up as well as the Ford or Chevy but the 5.9 is a BA motor.


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## KID CREOLE (Oct 28, 2005)

juanpescado said:


> Actually not good info at all, I had a "2001" powerjoke and nothing but problems, the dealer BSd around with it till the warranty ran out and then I was SOL, to top it off the 3 different FORD mechanics that worked on them said those years of jokes were killing them, they didnt get it right during the transition years so your info is out the window in my eyes, IMO the 2001 was the biggest POS a Ford man could own, I wasnt the only one with injector and head problems, I wasnt the only one that felt the turbo layout was weak either, if had driven a 2001 cummins alongside a 2001 joke as I had done you would notice an almost 50% difference between the 2, so with that being said, nah, thats not enough info for me....


I've never met anyone who has had as many problems as you have had, dude look in the mirror, it might be you. For you to say a 2001 is the biggest POS Ford and it being a transition year you clearly have no idea *** you're talking about. There is NO diference between the 2001 and the 02 7.3 PSD motor.

My suggestion is you learn how to use Google, you're looking like a fool!

Me and my buddys have 8 Ford F 250s, F 350s and Excursions dated from 2000 to 2002 combined are creeping up on 1.5 million miles total. Only one has been in the shop for a tranny replacement.

The one buddy of mine who has a 2001 Dodge with a Cummins will probably pay you to take the piece of **** off his hands. All you have to know is VP44 and have lots of money in the bank:rotfl:


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## BANGaRANG (Aug 23, 2009)

Is this thread still going?

Had a guy ask to borrow my truck one time (my wife's friend's husband), and the wife said yes. He had the nerve to not fill up the tank, and then tell me how much better the ford interior is compared to my dodge. So your going to borrow my truck and then insult it when you bring it back! That was the last time he borrowed my truck. Now the wife always says no when people ask. I love my truck like I love my kids!


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## goodwood (Mar 30, 2009)

how does the tranny hold up on the 5.9?


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## TunaTango (Dec 6, 2009)

My 1991 D250 5.9L has 133k....... tranny and its strong.


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## devil1824 (Sep 4, 2010)

THUNDER 113 said:


> I have had both, f-250 with 7.3 turbo , just traded it in on the Dodge 2500 with the 5.9, the dodge hands down to me the better Truck....


I did the same exact thing. hands down better. If you want the skinny on diesel trucks subscribe to Diesel power magazine. I read em cover to cover.


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## fishnfool (Jul 23, 2004)

They can all have issues, so anyones experience of problems with one truck/engine is useless if you ask me. I agree with all others here that the 5.9 was one of if not the best all around motor, BUT my father-in-law has an 01 that he babies and is on it's 3rd short block in 100k miles (go google 53 block if you think 5.9 never has issues...).

Anyhow, in the yrs you listed, be careful of the 6.0 (some have good luck, just be careful). If you are willing to do a little aftermarket work to get rid of emmissions stuff, and 08 6.4 would be a great choice. If not, find a Dodge with 5.9. I agree duramax would be a great choice though not in your list.

Find a 5.9 Dodge, 6.4 Ford, and duramax in your price range and drive all 3 then pick the one you like best and you'll be happy!


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## juanpescado (Dec 22, 2006)

KID CREOLE said:


> I've never met anyone who has had as many problems as you have had, dude look in the mirror, it might be you. For you to say a 2001 is the biggest POS Ford and it being a transition year you clearly have no idea *** you're talking about. There is NO diference between the 2001 and the 02 7.3 PSD motor.
> 
> My suggestion is you learn how to use Google, you're looking like a fool!
> 
> ...


Your right, I forgot, California is the pick up truck capitol of the world, guess we all need to listen to you guys, I do apologize, and tell your buddy he aint gotta pay me but i'll fly out tom and get it if it's a burden to him...


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