# Fathers Ranch Lease (How does a lease work)



## TheKodiak (Oct 20, 2017)

Hello. My father leases his ranch out. I believe he charges the individual around $1200 a year, and that same person takes up to three or four friends (w/rifles) to hunt too. I've heard a lot of things about leases, and I don't know jack about the subject. How does a lease work? Is there paperwork involved? Are leases known for charging a a flat rate, or per rifle? Who's job is it to police up the trash? There's even a dozer that hasn't been moved in over ten years, should we worry about it? Thanks.


On a side note, I love to send lead downrange, but not for game. Just for practice. Would I be a total douche if I were to start shooting again at his ranch, or should I continue to avoid using the leased ranch? Cheers!


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

Not unlike almost every contract, a lease is an agreement between the land Owner and the hunter(s). Some lease to one "manager" and he sub lets it to others. If he leases direct to each hunter, typically by gun. If to one manager, typically by the acre. I don't know how many acres or where it is, but $1200 for 4-5 hunters is dirt cheap. I know people who pay more than that per person share for a weekend hunt and a couple of does. 

The Owner directs (in the verbiage of the lease) what he expects, # of deer to be killed, # of hunters, move the dozer, who cleans up trash (and penalties for breaking any of these tenents of the lease) etc. etc. He also can direct # of stands, how much/type feed to be fed, and any multitude of other specific details. 

Some Owners provide the stands,plant the food plots and even put out corn, but it is all in the "lease" on what he will do and what the hunters will do. Bottomline, as the land Owner, he can charge and direct basically anything that he wants to be or not be done. 

If you want to shoot out there, I would do so in the summer when the hunters aren't there or not at all. And even then, not a lot. For sure not during the season.


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## Ready.Fire.Aim (Sep 22, 2009)

A lease is a legal document to use a piece of land for a specified period of time. 

You can lease land for many reasons limited by the lease contract. Farm row crops, graze cows, hunt deer, shoot doves, fish, gather pecans, or run your own nudist colony.

Have you asked your dad? 

Maybe itâ€™s a handshake deal, more than likely somebody wrote the terms & conditions down and both parties signed to make it legalâ€” so there is probably a lease contract document to read. 

Like mentioned before, I wouldnâ€™t show up and start shooting without being very familiar with the lease terms.

However, I would be p!ssed off if somebody was trashing family land and would make that stop. 

Good luck sir,
RFA


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## bwguardian (Aug 30, 2005)

TheKodiak said:


> Hello. My father leases his ranch out. I believe he charges the individual around $1200 a year, and that same person takes up to three or four friends (w/rifles) to hunt too. I've heard a lot of things about leases, and I don't know jack about the subject. How does a lease work? Is there paperwork involved? Are leases known for charging a a flat rate, or per rifle? Who's job is it to police up the trash? *There's even a dozer that hasn't been moved in over ten years, should we worry about it?* Thanks.
> 
> On a side note, I love to send lead downrange, but not for game. Just for practice. Would I be a total douche if I were to start shooting again at his ranch, or should I continue to avoid using the leased ranch? Cheers!


As mentioned above about the lease. Relative to the dozer...yikes on sitting so long...it's about time to clean up the senderos, so get it moving.


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## bowmansdad (Nov 29, 2011)

Since you have no interest in hunting, continue your shooting elsewhere. If you want to be involved in the ranch operations, talk to your dad.


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## fy0834 (Jan 18, 2011)

Itâ€™s a broad area you inquire about...
Here is a start to to get acquainted;

https://assets.recenter.tamu.edu/documents/articles/570.pdf


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## tdgal (Jun 16, 2009)

I'll play the spoiler about the liabilities. May want to discuss with your father/family. 

Family assets that are unprotected by lease contracts could be loss due to unscrupulous claims or lawsuits. 
Having written docmetation also aligns all parties of the expectations. 

Seen it happen with some family property.


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## TheKodiak (Oct 20, 2017)

Thank you Gents for the feedback. Itâ€™s a verbal contract that he currently has. But he has 40+ acres in the San Diego area. Iâ€™ve seen a few bucks and does. Plenty of dove, quail, and rabbits, and a lot of hogs. I asked about his rates, turns out heâ€™s charging $1.5k per each person (x3), plus electricity; although when I last spoke about it, it was $1.2k for the whole party. But I will dig deeper, Iâ€™d just hate for him to get the ****e part of the stick.


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## Salty Dog (Jan 29, 2005)

3 guns at $1500 a gun on 40 acres, he is not the one getting shafted.


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

TheKodiak said:


> Thank you Gents for the feedback. Itâ€™s a verbal contract that he currently has. But he has 40+ acres in the San Diego area. Iâ€™ve seen a few bucks and does. Plenty of dove, quail, and rabbits, and a lot of hogs. I asked about his rates, turns out heâ€™s charging $1.5k per each person (x3), plus electricity; although when I last spoke about it, it was $1.2k for the whole party. But I will dig deeper, Iâ€™d just hate for him to get the ****e part of the stick.


Well that certainly should be plenty of money for the lease. Sounds lke, at least from your perspective, that they need to tighten up on the housekeeping. That should be easy enough to convey in a friendly way. IMO, I would get a written contract, simply for the liability perspective. Doesn't have to be all lawyered up, just simple and to the point.


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## thedudeabides (May 6, 2018)

Have you asked your dad how it works?


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## JimD (May 25, 2004)

Read the lease. Sounds more like a bird lease than deer.
The first thing to have is a release of liability everyone should sign before being allowed to go on a ranch to protect the land owner from an accident or hunter stupidity.


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## fy0834 (Jan 18, 2011)

The key is to get a good group. A good lease group can be a real asset.
An egomaniac troublemaker can be more trouble than the worth.


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## Bukkskin (Oct 21, 2009)

TheKodiak said:


> Thank you Gents for the feedback. Itâ€™s a verbal contract that he currently has. But he has 40+ acres in the San Diego area. Iâ€™ve seen a few bucks and does. Plenty of dove, quail, and rabbits, and a lot of hogs. I asked about his rates, turns out heâ€™s charging $1.5k per each person (x3), plus electricity; although when I last spoke about it, it was $1.2k for the whole party. But I will dig deeper, Iâ€™d just hate for him to get the ****e part of the stick.


$4,500 for 40 acres in San Diego???:spineyes:
Please correct me!!!


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## TheKodiak (Oct 20, 2017)

Bukkskin said:


> $4,500 for 40 acres in San Diego???:spineyes:
> Please correct me!!!


Thatâ€™s what he said. It might actually be $3.6k @ $1.2k pr for the year. At this point Iâ€™m not sure. He keeps changing his answers. hwell:


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## Bukkskin (Oct 21, 2009)

TheKodiak said:


> Thatâ€™s what he said. It might actually be $3.6k @ $1.2k pr for the year. At this pointj Iâ€™m not sure. He keeps changing his answers. hwell:


Well, at $4,500/yr for 40 acres, that comes to $112.50 per acre. That is 10 times the going rate for Premium South Texas Huge buck country(and 40 acres in San Diego is not premium huge buck country).
Your dad is getting crazy, stupid money from the silly fools that agreed to pay that.
Your dad is apparently a Great business man so I would leave him alone, he is doing very well.
You need to stop worrying about your dad getting the ****e end of the stick, he is not.:spineyes:


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## bwguardian (Aug 30, 2005)

Bukkskin said:


> Well, at $4,500/yr for 40 acres, that comes to $112.50 per acre. That is 10 times the going rate for Premium South Texas Huge buck country(and 40 acres in San Diego is not premium huge buck country).
> Your dad is getting crazy, stupid money from the silly fools that agreed to pay that.
> Your dad is apparently a Great business man so I would leave him alone, he is doing very well.
> You need to stop worrying about your dad getting the ****e end of the stick, he is not.:spineyes:


If you consider each spot is allowed to take 3-4 friends to hunt, that place will be shot out in no time...


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## afishinman (Aug 31, 2016)

bwguardian said:


> If you consider each spot is allowed to take 3-4 friends to hunt, that place will be shot out in no time...


That place will be shot out in no time of 1 guys shoot 3-4 deer each year.

40 acres? Iâ€™d be shooting 2 total deer per year on that place MAX. If that. Regardless of how many hunt it.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Bukkskin (Oct 21, 2009)

bwguardian said:


> If you consider each spot is allowed to take 3-4 friends to hunt, that place will be shot out in no time...





afishinman said:


> That place will be shot out in no time of 1 guys shoot 3-4 deer each year.
> 
> 40 acres? Iâ€™d be shooting 2 total deer per year on that place MAX. If that. Regardless of how many hunt it.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yeah,

Oh Lord please help me keep my mouth shut on this thread from here on out, Lord Please!!!!!!! Please???

Nope, I just can't do it.:help::help::smile:

Leases like this (3 guys on 40 acres in South Texas) are a prime and shining example of why high fences were conceived and have been heavily implemented down there.

But, it is a sign of the times. 250,000 people move to Texas every year. Not including births.
Unfortunately it is only going to get more and more crowded. Less land and more people, so this kind of thing will be more and more common.
On a positive note, I should Croak in the next 40 or 50 yrs.:biggrin:


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

You really need to get the details before you can get a good answer here. Neither of the scenarios you describe sound plausible, but who am I to say.


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## Kyle 1974 (May 10, 2006)

Bukkskin said:


> Well, at $4,500/yr for 40 acres, that comes to $112.50 per acre. That is 10 times the going rate for Premium South Texas Huge buck country:


 But ironically about the average for 100 acre or less places in rival county.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Modelace (Feb 6, 2017)

Find some copies of lease contracts online. Modify them to suit your dads property.
You NEED to protect him from some unforeseen accident that could result in him losing his property!
If he charges for property use, he must keep a book on it. Check with TP&W for the details,it could save him a fine...


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## Letsgettofishing45$ (Apr 11, 2019)

I was in the same boat a few years ago. I was able to get smart
Fast and we turned our place into a top hunting lease that was very controlled and financially lucrative. I started by having a good legal lease drawn up by an attorney outlining the conditions to suit my families needs. It took some work upfront however it paid dividends with in the first year. What I found was a group or gentlemen who wanted to just show up and sit in a blind and watch deer and talk about the deer they saw before pulling the trigger. It turned out to be a very rewarding and low maintenance situation for all involved.


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## TheKodiak (Oct 20, 2017)

UPDATE:

It turns out he's leasing his ranch for $900. He's still reluctant to using contracts for family, but I simply explained it's just business, nothing personal. Yesterday I saw seven doe bunched up together, leaving me with no shot. Unfortunately, the "family" that leased the ranch have not paid. So on that note, he's looking for others to lease it at the same price. If interested, let me know.


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## TheKodiak (Oct 20, 2017)

This was from this weeks trail camera


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## Tarpon1 (Jul 25, 2016)

Contracts involving real property interests (i.e. hunting leases) must be in writing or they are unenforceable...day 3 of first year law school. Dad must like the arrangement, though, or he would have done something about it years ago, but you're exposed _to the extent of everything you own_ if someone gets shot or otherwise injured.


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## TheKodiak (Oct 20, 2017)

Tarpon1 said:


> Contracts involving real property interests (i.e. hunting leases) must be in writing or they are unenforceable...day 3 of first year law school. Dad must like the arrangement, though, or he would have done something about it years ago, but you're exposed _to the extent of everything you own_ if someone gets shot or otherwise injured.


So something like a liability waver would be in order?


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## bigdilltony (Jan 21, 2016)

Most property in Duval County have a lot of hunting pressure even if not leased. Only high fence or someone around constantly, otherwise it will be poached. I know,we have leased there,plus know lots of locals that feel it's their right to hunt anywhere.


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## TheKodiak (Oct 20, 2017)

bigdilltony said:


> Most property in Duval County have a lot of hunting pressure even if not leased. Only high fence or someone around constantly, otherwise it will be poached. I know,we have leased there,plus know lots of locals that feel it's their right to hunt anywhere.


There was a time where our Rvs would have signs of someone trying to break into them. But its been a decade since we've had that issue. We also have cameras, and its come out clean. I guess we're the lucky few.


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## Tarpon1 (Jul 25, 2016)

TheKodiak said:


> So something like a liability waver would be in order?


Absolutely. You don't need to get lawyers involved, check online for "hunting liability waiver form" and make sure they are for Texas (as some words need to be in all caps or bold to provide proper notice to the party signing)


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

Unless your Dad is just wanting someone to hang out down there to possibly keep poachers at bay, $900 isn't worth the time and effort (much less the liability exposure) family leased or not. Sounds like "family" is not too dependable anyway since they haven't paid yet. 

Just my 2 cents.


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## TheKodiak (Oct 20, 2017)

RB II said:


> Unless your Dad is just wanting someone to hang out down there to possibly keep poachers at bay, $900 isn't worth the time and effort (much less the liability exposure) family leased or not. Sounds like "family" is not too dependable anyway since they haven't paid yet.
> 
> Just my 2 cents.


You might have to elaborate that. I'm not picking up what you're laying down.


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## TheKodiak (Oct 20, 2017)

RB II said:


> Unless your Dad is just wanting someone to hang out down there to possibly keep poachers at bay, $900 isn't worth the time and effort (much less the liability exposure) family leased or not. Sounds like "family" is not too dependable anyway since they haven't paid yet.
> 
> Just my 2 cents.


Disregard my last quote. He doesn't need a babysitter, just honest and respectable people who would like to lease it. We usually go twice a week to check on things.


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## TheKodiak (Oct 20, 2017)

*Layout*

Here's a layout of the property. And a few recent photos


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## TheKodiak (Oct 20, 2017)

If I'm not mistaken, he leases out lanes for deer season, but one would still be able to utilized the property with other individuals. There's power in the camp for RVs.


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## Baystealth89 (Aug 10, 2019)

40 acres is a one man lease any more and it will be over hunted. General rule of thumb is at minimum 1 hunter per 100 acres.


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## EIGHTSKATE (Feb 19, 2016)

This is confusing.
Leasing lanes?
4 blinds on 40 acres?
Will still be able to utilize property with other individuals?
Appears you or family is hunting also.


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## TexasSlam18 (Aug 26, 2010)

Sounds shady.


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## impulse (Mar 17, 2010)

Tarpon1 said:


> Contracts involving real property interests (i.e. hunting leases) must be in writing or they are unenforceable...day 3 of first year law school. Dad must like the arrangement, though, or he would have done something about it years ago, but you're exposed _to the extent of everything you own_ if someone gets shot or otherwise injured.


You sure you can't do an oral lease in Texas? Texas government websites refer to oral real estate leases. And a zillion years ago when I took the classes to get my real estate license, it was only leases longer that 1 year that had to be in writing.

Harder to enforce and probably a bad idea, but unenforceable?

https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/PR/htm/PR.92.htm


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## TheKodiak (Oct 20, 2017)

EIGHTSKATE said:


> This is confusing.
> Leasing lanes?
> 4 blinds on 40 acres?
> Will still be able to utilize property with other individuals?
> Appears you or family is hunting also.


We have four blinds on each lane, each lane is rented out for the year. If there's more than one person leasing, then they would share the camp and electricity. I just got into hunting this year, but not really for deer, but for hogs. And I'm the only one that would hunt from my family. At the camp, we sometimes use a small area to practice with side arms. As for shady, we're honest hardworking citizens. We don't cheat people. As stated in the beginning, I'm not sure how a good and fair lease works. I'm just putting the information as I get it. The only contract, would be a personal property and liability contract.


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## TheKodiak (Oct 20, 2017)

impulse said:


> You sure you can't do an oral lease in Texas? Texas government websites refer to oral real estate leases. And a zillion years ago when I took the classes to get my real estate license, it was only leases longer that 1 year that had to be in writing.
> 
> Harder to enforce and probably a bad idea, but unenforceable?
> 
> https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/PR/htm/PR.92.htm


We tried that, but the individuals leasing at the moment, are harvesting and not paying. He has to hound them just to pay the electricity. Plus, they like to throw their trash just any where. So I want to outsource to avoid the headache for Pops.


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## Baystealth89 (Aug 10, 2019)

As stated before 40 acres is a one person hunting lease. Land is usually leased on a per dollar a acre. In that area 20 dollars a acre would be fair. Still a little on the high side. I would say between 800 and 1500 for hunting rights for the hole place. Shooting any more then one mature deer off that property a year will shoot it out quick fast and in a hurry.


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## 257wbymag (Jan 29, 2017)

I would hate to be a neighboring ranch knowing that information. 

However, San Diego seems to be knowing for leases/ranchett's and poaching so it seems in line.


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## sabiki (Aug 21, 2005)

Baystealth89 said:


> As stated before 40 acres is a one person hunting lease. Land is usually leased on a per dollar a acre. In that area 20 dollars a acre would be fair. Still a little on the high side. I would say between 800 and 1500 for hunting rights for the hole place. Shooting any more then one mature deer off that property a year will shoot it out quick fast and in a hurry.


this X2!-- 
advice would be to find yourself ONE FAMILY (or one hunter) and lease them the entire place for what you think you need to get (including enough to cover elect.) , get a liability release from them... and get ALL your money by say... july 15, have a backup person ready to lease if you don't get your money on time...finding someone you trust to have on your property is hard to do nowadays..limit it to one hunter or one family should simplify it a little.


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## TexasSlam18 (Aug 26, 2010)

Kodiak, here is the way leases work for 99.99% of people...

You have land, you lease said land to me for X amount of money. Lessee sends you that amount of money and you leave the lessee alone until next year. If you are leasing the land to someone you should not be out there hunting it. That's just my opinion (i guarantee most people who who lease property have the same opinion). And the reason I said it sounds shady is because everyone else on this post seems to think you aren't making sense as well. It seems your dad has/had a deal worked out and you should consider staying out of it, or have him quit leasing it so you can use it. Leasing the property and still hunting it is a prime example of having your cake and eating it too.


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## SSST (Jun 9, 2011)

TexasSlam18 said:


> Kodiak, here is the way leases work for 99.99% of people...
> 
> You have land, you lease said land to me for X amount of money. Lessee sends you that amount of money and you leave the lessee alone until next year. If you are leasing the land to someone you should not be out there hunting it. That's just my opinion (i guarantee most people who who lease property have the same opinion). And the reason I said it sounds shady is because everyone else on this post seems to think you aren't making sense as well. It seems your dad has/had a deal worked out and you should consider staying out of it, or have him quit leasing it so you can use it. Leasing the property and still hunting it is a prime example of having your cake and eating it too.


Yeah, that wouldn't fly with me. I've had buddies go thru this, and it never ends good. Like stated above, lease the 40 to a guy for whatever amount you see fit, and stay away during season.


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## Cavjock22 (Jan 5, 2008)

TexasSlam18 said:


> Kodiak, here is the way leases work for 99.99% of people...
> 
> You have land, you lease said land to me for X amount of money. Lessee sends you that amount of money and you leave the lessee alone until next year. If you are leasing the land to someone you should not be out there hunting it. That's just my opinion (i guarantee most people who who lease property have the same opinion). And the reason I said it sounds shady is because everyone else on this post seems to think you aren't making sense as well. It seems your dad has/had a deal worked out and you should consider staying out of it, or have him quit leasing it so you can use it. Leasing the property and still hunting it is a prime example of having your cake and eating it too.


We lease out a 500 acre pasture for $7K One trophy. Year round access
140 or better- 2 culls plus hogs and does.. South Texas
Family has full access and right to harvest and hunt as well. We respect the lessors blinds & feed stations. We have great communication with our hunters and are seldom there when they are there. We share game cam pics and such and discuss which bucks to harvest. This year we will both provide cotton seed and/or protein, Family mainly kills does/hogs/quail. Family provides water and electricity. Senderos and roads are shredded on a yearly or 2 year (depending on rain). This has worked out great for three years and counting. Communication and trust is the key...


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## TheKodiak (Oct 20, 2017)

Cavjock22 said:


> We lease out a 500 acre pasture for $7K One trophy. Year round access
> 140 or better- 2 culls plus hogs and does.. South Texas
> Family has full access and right to harvest and hunt as well. We respect the lessors blinds & feed stations. We have great communication with our hunters and are seldom there when they are there. We share game cam pics and such and discuss which bucks to harvest. This year we will both provide cotton seed and/or protein, Family mainly kills does/hogs/quail. Family provides water and electricity. Senderos and roads are shredded on a yearly or 2 year (depending on rain). This has worked out great for three years and counting. Communication and trust is the key...


Hogs, quails, and dove are my main focus. I'm not really interested in deer. We do provide water, blinds, senderos; while maintaining the trails and camp. In addition, I miss understood, he charges per rifle, and not lanes. He's not sure about leasing exclusively though. We just have the lanes set up with blinds. I wouldn't just show up and start blasting, I would touch base with the person(s) leasing prior to hunting. Just so I don't step on anyones toes.


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## W E H (Aug 2, 2012)

Pay your father $1000 to lease it for yourself exclusively.

I canâ€™t believe thereâ€™s any animals on 40 acres with what youâ€™re describing is going on. 

I have attached a copy of the last oral contract I used. As you can see itâ€™s pretty clear.


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## TheKodiak (Oct 20, 2017)

W E H said:


> Pay your father $1000 to lease it for yourself exclusively.
> 
> I canâ€™t believe thereâ€™s any animals on 40 acres with what youâ€™re describing is going on.
> 
> I have attached a copy of the last oral contract I used. As you can see itâ€™s pretty clear.


I think you forgot to attach the file. So far from what I've seen, there's 10+ Hogs, three 6+ pointer bucks, two button bucks, seven does, assload of rabbits, quails, doves, and four bobcats. I'm starting to see more animals, since I starting to pay more attention to the wildlife there.


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

This is one of the strangest threads Iâ€™ve ever read. I donâ€™t think Iâ€™ve ever seen someone change direction so many times. Very confusing. I wouldnâ€™t touch that place with a 10 foot pole.


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## Camarowithbass (Jul 6, 2011)

The kodiak
I sent you a PM

Sent from my SM-J737T1 using Tapatalk


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## TheKodiak (Oct 20, 2017)

WillieT said:


> This is one of the strangest threads Iâ€™ve ever read. I donâ€™t think Iâ€™ve ever seen someone change direction so many times. Very confusing. I wouldnâ€™t touch that place with a 10 foot pole.


I pick up what you're laying down...lol. I guess that's why my pops is having so much trouble too. I get the info, and relay it here. I'm confused as well. But at the moment, I'm starting to piece it all together. This passed weekend, I've intel-ed only on buck has been harvested, and two hogs. The three people leasing won't harvest a buck each, the first one to harvest is the winner. That's it, no overkills. Since nobody hunts around the neighboring properties, the deer come into ours to feed. For those that PM-ed me, I've relayed the info to pops. I hope everyone had a good season!


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## Spec-Rig.006 (Nov 2, 2007)

Yeah. This is a weird thread. I'm not even sure what the interest in the property is, but ... leases usually require contracts. Actual contracts. With indemnities and the same T&C's as other types of business contracts. There just aren't many places anymore that rely on handshake deals. 

If you'd like a SAMPLE contract. PM me and I'll send you one he can use.

I also BELIEVE that in Texas that if you lease your land you have to have a lease permit from TP&W.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

I think the entire thing is a scam.


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## rodsnscrews (May 4, 2006)

SCAM? It is Duval county ....say no more!


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