# Lake Livingston Future



## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

Lake Livingston has been an outstanding lake for white bass and blue cats for a long time. I am excited about the next 2 years. 

The lake now has huge numbers of whites in the 10" to 12". I hope and think those will live another year, and next year will be good for big whites. Easy legal limits has been the rule this year so it is hard to beat. But I think next year the limits will have more meat.

Two years from now sounds like a banner year for stripers from what Meadowlark and Sunbeam have reported.

If I need correcting from the guys with more experience, that is fine.


----------



## juror81 (Jul 21, 2011)

I totally agree with your assessment WBF. Even for relatively new comers to the Lake like myself and others, we are getting our limits of WB fairly easily. Can't imagine if it can get even better. Looking forward to the great future.


----------



## hopn (Jul 5, 2012)

If 40+ anglers at LnD can get their limit every fishable day from January to mid April, I can only imagine what anglers on LL can do. And you are right, it is an exciting time for LL anglers, now and future.


----------



## Rusty S (Apr 6, 2006)

What if a storm like Rita hits and knocks out the dam, how does your 2 year future hold? I like to fish the spawn upstream and the hit them under the lights when summer hits, been doing it for years. The vegetation from the low water level after Rita bloomed the Lake, thus when the water rose the fish had vegetation and cover they prospered, white bass will spawn every year as long as the Trinity River runs through the lake, catfish and largemouth will grow--can't guarantee 3lb White's though. rs


----------



## juror81 (Jul 21, 2011)

I have heard of LL WB up to 20 inches in year's past, someone who have been there, please tell us what it was like in the good old days.


----------



## uncle dave (Jul 27, 2008)

In the early 70's, 2# white bass were very common, they would school up and bust the water some times covering an acre or more.


----------



## lx22f/c (Jun 19, 2009)

uncle dave said:


> In the early 70's, 2# white bass were very common, they would school up and bust the water some times covering an acre or more.


Oh i remember those days, i remember 
the late 70's and early 80's when my uncle and dad started bringing us tp Livingston. No limits on whitebass when we first started fishing livingston and you could fill a cooler in no time. 
Schooling whitebass where everywhere on a cloudy day they would school all day long.
I remember on day my dad and my brother and i launched at wolf creek park and made our way to the island right at daylight the whitebass started schooling and we had our 75 fish in a matter of minutes. We started culling and the fish just kept schooling it was a unbelievable sight to see the water boiling across the whole north side of the island. When we got back to the ramp we talked with some other fisherman who said they never made it to the island cause the whitebass schooled all out in front of wolfcreek as far as they could see.
Oh the memories!!!!
I think a combination of rita and the drought a couple of years ago did wonders for the lake giving new vegetation for the fish to thrive in, and now we our reaping the rewards. 
We just need to respect our fisheries and remember to take what we need and and release what we don't need.
I keep enough fish for my fish fry's and then out of respect for the fish and future fishing i release everything else.
Good thread WBf

Cast your burden on the Lord, and He shall sustain You;


----------



## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

juror81 said:


> I have heard of LL WB up to 20 inches in year's past, someone who have been there, please tell us what it was like in the good old days.


I've fished the lake since it was impounded...and the good old days for me have been the last few years. Specifically last year, I got personal bests in striper, white bass and hybrid striped bass in 2012. Best striper at 32 inches and 16 pounds, best white bass at 19 inches , and best hybrid at 27.5 inches. Each of those three will be displayed as replica mounts in a local Livingston business soon.

Based on science from T,P,&W fish numbers are all down for Livingston except blue cats. The part of their study that was particularly of concern to me was they showed that shad numbers are also down. The question is what's the best path to get those numbers back up. The choices include 1) improved environment, 2) more enforcement of existing laws and 3) changes to existing laws

1) Projects are underway to get vegetation established and it seems that will help, especially the forage species.

2) The illegal netting, which plagued the lake for many years, especially the upper part of the river, seems to be under control now...and you can't underestimate the negative effects that netting had on the sport fishing.

3) I definitely favor changing some of the restrictions on Livingston sport fishing.


On crappie, I believe we need a 10 fish limit rather than the 25 currently in place. The limit, whatever it is, also needs to be much more strictly enforced.

On white bass, I wish they would raise the length limit to at least 12 inches. If you enjoy larger white bass, then those small ones need to be released to grow to larger sizes.

the striper regs need to be changed to be like Texoma....a no cull, set limit of fish. You can read a report just today in this forum of someone catching 75 stripers and presumably culling them out. The water temp is currently 85 degree give or take a degree and those culled stripers most likely will all die and be completely wasted. I suspect a trip around Pine Island today would show the proof of what I am saying....and it will be multiplied many times over in the next few months. There is nothing I've seen on the water that is more sickening than wasted, floating dead stripers.
The future will be dependent on management issues and how we react to them, some of which addressed above. The lake has the potential to be the best catfish lake in Texas, the top white bass lake in Texas, and a good place to catch other species including stripers, crappie, and LMB.


----------



## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

I have some opinions that I would like to verify. I think whites can be caught and released without killing them, when treated correctly of course. Because of that I am recently fishing shallower structure that has whites but few if any stripers. Lake Livingston seems marginal depth wise and heat wise to sustain stripers. Many or most stripers die when released, especially this time of year. But, the TP&WD want Livingston as their striper lake, so that will stay the same. I admit to catch and release below the dam at times for stripers when 3 or 4 gates are open, but I think that water has better O2. I don't want to waste anything, so if I am wrong here, let me know.

The TP&WD did try the 12" minimum for white bass on several Texas lakes for years, Livingston among them. They ended up saying they saw no difference and went back to 10". Personally, I think below 12" just doesn't have enough meat to make it worth it though. And, they gain considerably more meat by 13".


----------



## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

I always thought below the dam waters would be much more striper friendly with respect to 02 also....however biologists have told me they have never seen a striper, after years and years of netting , older than 6 years of age come from there. Same biologist showed me where there is an artesian spring located right up in the trail race and the water there is cooler than the surrounding waters and but just not large enough to reduce the mortality. 


I've always wondered about the long standing lake record of 37 inches and 31.5 pounds. The 32 inch fish I caught last year weighed 16 pounds and was right on the upper end(maximum) of the national scale for stripers that length. A 37 inch fish would be 11 years old on that same national scale and would top out at just over 23 pounds. The recorded 31.5 pounds striper then was about 35% larger than the maximum size striper on the National scale and almost double the age of any striper ever seen by TP&W from Livingston waters. Its a record that won't be broken, IMO....but that's a digression. 

Back to your question, below the dam in high water temps, the stripers still experience high angling mortality but one would have to think it would be somewhat less than main lake.


----------



## Rusty S (Apr 6, 2006)

I think Livingston is the best overall Lake in Texas, I love it, the fish are plentiful and there are so many arteries into the lake that you can always find fish. My place overlooks Pine Island on a sunset, between Beacon Bay and the State Park, I love Livingston. My fiance hates the place and wants to sell, the city life has changed her, as for me I just can't wait to go and mess around with my friends. I would really like to meet some of you cats one weekend, Whitebassfisher and Meadowlark, I learned the Lake from old maps my buddy gave me and by his tutilage. He owns RB's grocery and filling station on old 190 in Blanchard, I miss not seeing him daily, the talk of the world goes through that store on a daily basis--and some pretty good fishing reports too. rs


----------



## markbrumbaugh (Jul 13, 2010)

Meadowlark said:


> the striper regs need to be changed to be like Texoma....a no cull, set limit of fish. You can read a report just today in this forum of someone catching 75 stripers and presumably culling them out. The water temp is currently 85 degree give or take a degree and those culled stripers most likely will all die and be completely wasted. I suspect a trip around Pine Island today would show the proof of what I am saying....and it will be multiplied many times over in the next few months. There is nothing I've seen on the water that is more sickening than wasted, floating dead stripers.
> I just said the same thing 5 minutes ago, last year and the year before.


----------



## markbrumbaugh (Jul 13, 2010)

Rusty S said:


> What if a storm like Rita hits and knocks out the dam, how does your 2 year future hold?


Glass half empty tonight?


----------



## Rusty S (Apr 6, 2006)

markbrumbaugh said:


> Glass half empty tonight?


 You want the truth, that was the best thing that ever happened to the lake, now I really don't want to see it again anytime soon. The lake is just right, wish I was there. rs


----------



## Rusty S (Apr 6, 2006)

markbrumbaugh said:


> Meadowlark said:
> 
> 
> > the striper regs need to be changed to be like Texoma....a no cull, set limit of fish. You can read a report just today in this forum of someone catching 75 stripers and presumably culling them out. The water temp is currently 85 degree give or take a degree and those culled stripers most likely will all die and be completely wasted. I suspect a trip around Pine Island today would show the proof of what I am saying....and it will be multiplied many times over in the next few months. There is nothing I've seen on the water that is more sickening than wasted, floating dead stripers.
> ...


----------



## markbrumbaugh (Jul 13, 2010)

Rusty S said:


> You want the truth, that was the best thing that ever happened to the lake, now I really don't want to see it again anytime soon. The lake is just right, wish I was there. rs


Me too, on both accounts.


----------



## hrider2001 (Dec 29, 2009)

I remember those days in the 70s......fishing like no other....but....today I'm almost 100% catch and release......it's not the 70s....but it doesn't need to be. Have always loved this lake and the surrounding area....will always be home.


----------



## DesertFugee (Mar 7, 2013)

My concern with LL is that it seems to be fairly two dimensional right now. I see a booming white bass fishery coupled with an annoyingly high catfish population, but a declining LMB and crappie fishery without any recruitment/spawn means of those populations changing. I'm no biologist, but it seems to me that, absent some mechanism to allow for vegetation or spawning ground development, you can limit harvest all you want and it is not going to change the outcome. Most biologists believe that on water the size of LL, fishing has very little impact on year-to-year fish populations. And finally, with a lake that's basically built of silt, plus a massive booming of whites and stripers, I am not surprised to read that shad numbers are down. I bet they keep going down.


----------



## Mattsfishin (Aug 23, 2009)

I am looking forward to the striper action getting better the next few years. I bought a new Orvis fly rod and a Orvis fly reel. Going to do me some fly fishin for the whites and stripers.


----------



## fishin_envy (Aug 13, 2010)

The TP&WD did try the 12" minimum for white bass on several Texas lakes for years said:


> I remember this very vividly. TP&W went to the 12" min. on LL and 4 other lakes. Not sure what the impact was on the 4 other lakes, but as a frequent fisherman of LL, I thought it make a very positive impact on that lake. The 1st year it was in effect, 11" fish were a dime a dozen, but you had to really work to put a limit of 12" plus fish in the cooler. I fished the WB tournament that year and remember something like only 7 out of 25 teams weighing in their 2 man 10 fish limit. The following year and each year after that there was a lot of 15"+ fish in the lake. I would much rather have 10 15" fish vs. 25 11" fish. Was very sad that they went back to a 10" min. I personally thought they went back because there were so many violations from people who failed to read the fine print.


----------



## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

fishin_envy said:


> I remember this very vividly. TP&W went to the 12" min. on LL and 4 other lakes. Not sure what the impact was on the 4 other lakes, but as a frequent fisherman of LL, I thought it make a very positive impact on that lake. The 1st year it was in effect, 11" fish were a dime a dozen, but you had to really work to put a limit of 12" plus fish in the cooler. I fished the WB tournament that year and remember something like only 7 out of 25 teams weighing in their 2 man 10 fish limit. The following year and each year after that there was a lot of 15"+ fish in the lake. I would much rather have 10 15" fish vs. 25 11" fish. Was very sad that they went back to a 10" min. I personally thought they went back because there were so many violations from people who failed to read the fine print.


I definitely respect your opinion on this. I don't mean it as saying you are wrong, but I honestly wonder how much of what you describe was due how succesful the 2 or 3 previous spawns were. The 12" limit did not bother me one bit; to me the only reason to keep a white bass under 12" is that it got gill hooked. Catching any fish is fun to me, but yes, bigger ones are more fun. Size matters! Hopefully the TP&W department used science in their decision.


----------



## fishin_envy (Aug 13, 2010)

Whitebassfisher said:


> I definitely respect your opinion on this. I don't mean it as saying you are wrong, but I honestly wonder how much of what you describe was due how succesful the 2 or 3 previous spawns were. The 12" limit did not bother me one bit; to me the only reason to keep a white bass under 12" is that it got gill hooked. Catching any fish is fun to me, but yes, bigger ones are more fun. Size matters! Hopefully the TP&W department used science in their decision.


Just to clarify, I thought the 12" min. was a positive thing that I wish they would bring back. After the 1st year they had it, I thought the quality of the fish were much better than the previous 5 years of fishing. It could have been some other factor as well I guess, but really felt that the 12" min. helped.


----------

