# game warden around galveston and freeport area stripping boat?



## kabo0ky (Aug 3, 2009)

I been hearing horror stories about game wardens in galveston and freeport area searching your boat with an electric drill taking of panels searching for hidden fish. I don't fish the area on a regular basis, maybe 2 to 3 times a year. Just wondering if this was true or not. i don't think i can stand there a watch someone tear my boat apart especially if i'm legal.


----------



## Shredded Evidence (Jun 25, 2007)

Maybe for drugs but I have never heard of this for fish.


----------



## RockportRobert (Dec 29, 2006)

Doubt it. Maybe the ICE guys or Coasties if they have reason to.


----------



## kabo0ky (Aug 3, 2009)

yeah searching for drugs sound more believable. the guy that told me was full of ****


----------



## bzrk180 (Jan 7, 2008)

A "search" requires a warrant, probable cause, or permission. Many people think that just because you are "asked" means you must comply. Know your rights!


----------



## 11andy11 (Aug 12, 2004)

I don't think game wardens need warrants to search for stuff. That being said, I don't they would tear your boat apart without pretty good probable cause.


----------



## Miles2Fish (Dec 2, 2008)

How many of the boats out there have removeable panels or areas you can't make a visible search of?


----------



## Scott (May 24, 2004)

Couple things - I would imagine that you being on the water gives them the right to search any area which the boater can access - much like your car - no probable cause needed. Drilling or opening panels in a boat would most likely require a warrant. I doubt anybody would start destroying a boat by drilling it unless the boat has been impounded and a warrant existed to do it. The government would be liable for damage to your boat if you are innocent. I would bet that if an agent did that, he'd probably get fired if he was doing it in a general search.


----------



## CAPSIZED (Aug 10, 2004)

I get stopped out of Galveston about five times per year by the game wardens and every time its the same thing "let me see your fish and lifejackets... and have a nice day"


----------



## welder (Jun 26, 2006)

If Johnny Law wants to look behind a locked door or panel or the trunk of your car , JUST BECAUSE, you can say NO and he will have to get a search warrant . We still have some freedoms and rights.

Now, if he has to get one and you are guilty , your gonna fry. Game wardens are not GOD even though some think they are . 
Don't take what I'm saying as Disrespect to LEO's , they have a Thankless job for the most part and most of the GW's I know are GREAT guys .


----------



## C BISHOP (Dec 4, 2007)

CAPSIZED said:


> I get stopped out of Galveston about five times per year by the game wardens and every time its the same thing "let me see your fish and lifejackets... and have a nice day"


samething with us


----------



## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

We were checked a couple weekends ago and all they asked for was life jackets. She took our word on not having any fish even though we were fishing when she pulled up. Took all of about 2 minutes and she was off to the next boat. It took me longer to re stow the lifejackets than the whole check took.


----------



## myprozac (Feb 7, 2006)

I had them board my boat while we were just watching the sun set last Wed. We had no rods/reels. They checked every safety device we had to make sure they were not expired. They also checked my registration and drivers liscence. Plus they took a look at insurance. Basically logged every safety device on the vessel. Made me feel safe cause I had more then enough for 2 or 3 boats they said. Anyways they gave me a carbon copy of thier log and took off. Very Very nice guys.


----------



## bwguardian (Aug 30, 2005)

myprozac said:


> I had them board my boat while we were just watching the sun set last Wed. We had no rods/reels. They checked every safety device we had to make sure they were not expired. They also checked my registration and drivers liscence. *Plus they took a look at insurance.* Basically logged every safety device on the vessel. Made me feel safe cause I had more then enough for 2 or 3 boats they said. Anyways they gave me a carbon copy of thier log and took off. Very Very nice guys.


Why were they checking your insurance?


----------



## REELING 65 (Aug 18, 2009)

Ok,lets start by saying in all my years of being out on the water. Also I have been checked out by Marine patrol Game warden's coast guard etc. I have never heard of something so drastic as for using a drill-lol. All you need to know is that if you have all your fish in the cooler and they"the fish"are legal.
Plus having all your safety Items Life Jackets throw-able cushions and distress equipment flares and what not. You should be fine. Always keep your registration to the boat on you every time you go on the water. Plus your fishing license. Keep up good maint,on your vessel. Always be polite to them,yes sir no sir. Do not be a smart ..s,for this will ruin your day. If you do which I would not suggest. I have seen the marine patrol take a mans boat trailer and truck and hauled him off to the poky. That was because the man had some undersized fish in his cooler. Then the guy got smart with the officer.Well it did not end good for that Idiot. They have a job to do on the water. I have a great deal of respect for these Leo's. They make our lives to where we all can enjoy fishing. I say obey the rules and go fishing. Life is to short to worry about drilling open hatches.lmao on that one that is good.


----------



## mikeo924 (Jul 1, 2007)

........."search" requires a warrant, probable cause, or permission. Many people think that just because you are "asked" means you must comply. Know your rights!........... 
they dont need ****. my friends went offshore the other day ended up getting searched and detained for 6 hours. and nothing happened but a boat with every screw out to take home


----------



## Cap'n Crunch (Aug 3, 2007)

Game wardens don't need a search warrant or probable cause. They have more power than any other law enforcment officer.

And since when do you need insurance to own a boat? I've never been asked for that.


----------



## LongTallTexan (May 19, 2009)

_http://2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/showthread.php?t=264458&highlight=game+warden+reports_

I realize the quoted thread does not site Freeport or drills, but it does site the reason why they might.

_"Tarrant County Game Wardens Clint Borchardt and Chelle Mount were checking fishermen along the West Fork of the Trinity River on February 21. The first of two boats they checked had four fishermen. The section behind the last seat was filled to the top of the transom with 122 white bass. The second boat had two fishermen and 64 white bass in their ice chest. All six fishermen received citations for over the limit of white bass."_

All of my experiences with them have been pleasant. Just checking for life jackets and such. However, they really don't need any probably cause or warrant to search any of your property. They have more jurisdiction than any law enforcement agency in the state. Some of the TXPWD guys are federally deputised. If you give them reason to think they might find something by removing panels, etc, then I wouldn't put it past them.

With that being said, I don't think they are doing that at random.


----------



## myprozac (Feb 7, 2006)

bwguardian said:


> Why were they checking your insurance?


I have everything in a file folder/binder in the boat and I just gave them that binder and told them I got nothing to hide. They flipped threw everything. Didn't bother me one bit. They did say that now that I have that carbon copy, just to show that to the CG next time they come up and it could prevent them from going threw everything. I thought it was kinda weird they wrote down all my Drivers License info, and even asked me for a current daytime phone number, but that was no big deal. Kinda seemed like they were possibly doing a survey????


----------



## Shredded Evidence (Jun 25, 2007)

mikeo924;2652601they dont need ****. my friends went offshore the other day ended up getting searched and detained for 6 hours. and nothing happened but a boat with every screw out to take home[/QUOTE said:


> There has to be more to the story than a simple stop by the GW. This can't be without some sort of cause can it?
> 
> I would like more info on this as it puts the GW in a bad light which goes against all I have seen and a few GWs I personally know.


----------



## REELING 65 (Aug 18, 2009)

Lets make it plain and simple. If you are going out fishing and you are going to take fish that you should not. Then do not go out on the water period!
*Respect is common sense!*


----------



## High Hopes (Oct 10, 2007)

As long as your not running dope or illegal immigrants, I wouldn't worry too much. I have never had coast guard or game wardens ever dig around in my boat. Just be respectful and polite as they are only trying to make sure that everyone is safe and abiding by the laws out on the water. Make certain that you know ALL of the laws and regulations and fallow them then you will not have to worry, make sure that you are up to date on fish bag and size regulations, they do not tolerate ignorance of laws, especially the lack of required safety equipment, they will never give a warning.

It doesn't sound like they were doing this at random, I am sure that they were tipped off some how.


----------



## Hooked Up (May 23, 2004)

Mont said:


> We were checked a couple weekends ago and all they asked for was life jackets. She took our word on not having any fish even though we were fishing when she pulled up. Took all of about 2 minutes and she was off to the next boat. It took me longer to re stow the lifejackets than the whole check took.


She was a Cutie too! Seriously though, she did her job, was very polite, and went on about her business just like most of our Wardens do. (except for the cute part ). Something just doesn't add up with the original post on this thread. H/U


----------



## hog (May 17, 2006)

kabo0ky said:


> I been hearing horror stories about game wardens in galveston and freeport area searching your boat with an electric drill taking of panels searching for hidden fish. I don't fish the area on a regular basis, maybe 2 to 3 times a year. Just wondering if this was true or not. i don't think i can stand there a watch someone tear my boat apart especially if i'm legal.


I think who ever told you this, was either giving you a "hear say", or a story someone told him/her that was way over Embellished.

Ive been stopped MANY TIMES (as many of you have) and never ever has anything taken place anywhere compared to the story above.

But, I could be wrong in my assumption, I've had to eat Crow before, but, I dont feel I am just for a normal ole everyday mom/pop fishing boat safety check...

JMO

PS:speaking of checks, make sure your flares and fire extinguishers are not out of date. Buying new ones each year is alot cheaper than paying the ticket. besides, you get extras for your boat that you didnt have and might need

Hog


----------



## Swells (Nov 27, 2007)

I believe that in order to do an invasive search of a boat, such as with saws and drills, the officer or agent must seek a warrant from a judge having the proper jurisdiction. The boat is then impounded, just like seizing a car. 

Until that time, the law officer can only inspect easy to find compartments, fish holds, ice chests, etc. It usually takes probably cause for a potential felony to rip a boat up. 

If drugs, aliens, or illegal fish are found so as to be a clear felony, the Coast Guard usually destroys the boat, by the way. The TPWD usually auctions them off. You may have been video of the USCG blowing up coke smuggling boats with 50-cal. and maybe a tom-tom with tracers, not that I am familiar with their ammo. 

By the way, the first 10 seconds of being boarded, you are being profiled. Heavily profiled. Officers and agents are looking for extreme nervousness or agitation, and the captain not being prepared with the right paperwork and safety equipment. Being overly drunk makes it even easier for them to profile you as BWI, for example, a possible felony crime. 

All that bad stuff said, I have been on many boardings and I put my fishing license in my top pocket, crack open a beer, and fish a few casts, just like everything was OK. These guys are fast, PFD, fire extinguisher, papers, check the cooler, write it up, and move on as fast as possible. If you smile and say "thanks" they sort of appreciate it ... these guys and gals aren't liked or loved very good but I support them ... and the Auxiliary, too.

By the way, the USCG Auxiliary is losing lots of its members due to old age. It is a "Junior GW" volunteer job but you have no right to board or arrest ... it can be rewarding on those crazy summer weekends when the fishing is no good, anyway. They help a lot of people and can PREVENT them getting a darn ticket or into trouble. Give it a thought.
sammie


----------



## boom! (Jul 10, 2004)

Thats why I run a skiff...... nowhere to hide a fish in the event that I would ever catch one. I have heard that drug runners have been known to glass drugs in the stringers of boats, but these were large boats. I am pretty sure that there would have to be some kind of reasonable assurance that drugs will be found before taking a sawzall to a privately owned boat.
The story sounds like an urban myth scare type bs.


----------



## igo320 (May 17, 2005)

If I remember, some of the infractions issued by the Fed GW were Red Snapper filets, I'm sure they found those right on top of the ice...? If you are breaking the law, making up stories, you will get caught. Too many eyes watching....including mine and most all my buddies sad3sm

Galveston GW hit me 5 times last year, I think this was every time I went out of that port. No problems and very courteous.


----------



## divingmatt (Dec 7, 2008)

Man that is crazy!!! I was a deckhand out of galvez a for a few years and we got checked on a regular basis by the gw's.Most of the time it was just the normal limit checks.On a few occasions they actually went into the salon and bedrooms and tapped on the walls with a mag lite looking for "hidden fish" or so they said.As far as i know Game wardens can pretty much do what they want with reasonable cause,But when they start pulling wall paneling on a high dollar boat thats crazy.


----------



## swank26 (Mar 1, 2010)

*search*

Guys, a warden or any other officer doesnt have to have a warrant to unscrew things (if a legal search). When it comes to searching every stop is different in what you can or cant do. If he/she had "probable cause" then they dont need a warrant to take a boat/car apart (must have reason to take something apart) like finding illegal fish in your ice chest-the rest of the boat is game. Now if you give "consent to search" and the officer finds nothing on the initial search but sees a panel with fresh screw marks on a screw head (and can articulate about you demeanor, wet rods, live bait, lies, and through his/her experience...etc) he/she can take that apart without a warrant. If you say "No" to a search thats a whole other ball game. There is too many things that can effect what you can/cant search that would make this a 100 page reply, just tied to give a quick reply. Also dope comes from mexico all up the coast in boats weekly...


----------



## bzrk180 (Jan 7, 2008)

> Couple things - I would imagine that you being on the water gives them the right to search any area which the boater can access - much like your car - no probable cause needed.


You are mistaken...Like I said...Know your rights...


----------



## REELING 65 (Aug 18, 2009)

High Hopes said:


> As long as your not running dope or illegal immigrants, I wouldn't worry too much. I have never had coast guard or game wardens ever dig around in my boat. Just be respectful and polite as they are only trying to make sure that everyone is safe and abiding by the laws out on the water. Make certain that you know ALL of the laws and regulations and fallow them then you will not have to worry, make sure that you are up to date on fish bag and size regulations, they do not tolerate ignorance of laws, especially the lack of required safety equipment, they will never give a warning.
> 
> It doesn't sound like they were doing this at random, I am sure that they were tipped off some how.


 Wait-I forgot to charge my drill battery. lmao


----------



## baystealth07 (Nov 30, 2009)

i fish the galveston area all the time, and i have been stopped by the game warden coastguard etc. and i have never had any of them take anything apart. they just check the fish and lifejackets. 95% of the time they do not even check my license! do not let these rumors deter you from fishing the texas coast anywhere. as others were saying, the only reason i could see any law enforcement searching your boat like taking off panels or doors is if they suspected there were drugs or guns on board, then i believe they would impound your boat and search then, i do not think they would do it while you were present. anyhow happy fishing the texas coast.


----------



## dune2218 (Feb 7, 2010)

lot of naive 2-coolers out there. -------- There has been an evolution of a game warden' s duties. In the old days they were basically there to protect and preserve the wild game. Some pretend that is still their mission --- it is not. Their mission is to produce revenue. period. If you dont believe that, you are VERY naive.


----------



## Pecos (Feb 20, 2006)

Without going into a lengthy discussion of search and siezure law at both the state and federal levels I point out the following:
1. *GENERALLY*, if consent to search IS NOT given, an LEO may *not* search without a search warrant*,*

*HOWEVER*

*2. Warrantless* searches *are* allowed:
a. When an officer *witnesses a felony or a breach of the peace*, or
b. when an officer has an *"articulable suspicion"* that badness is afoot, *AND* an *"exigent circumstance"* exists that precludes the officer from going and obtaining a search warrant...for instance, he thinks you have a trunk full of the noxious weed because an informant who has previously been reliable told him you did and there is nothing to stop you from driving off if he takes his informant to the nearest judge to get a warrant.

That is it in a nutshell guys BUT I cannot begin to tell you the number of appellate cases we have, from the U S Supreme Ct on down, telling us what constitutes an "articulable suspicion" and/or an "exigent circumstance".

Can an LEO start carving holes in your boat without a warrant? Sure..if he has that "articulable suspicion"...say his drug dog starts going nuts, AND ya'll are 20 miles offshore and here is nothing to stop you from going about your merry way if the officer decides to run to Angelton for a warrant. As you can see, each case is determined by its respective facts.

I cannot imagine the Coasties or *most* LEOs taking a drill or a hole saw to your boat w/o a REAL GOOD "articulable suspician". Might some rogue officer get carried away with his or her power? Well, from time to time it does happen. Then what? Assuming no "badness" was found it is possible...not easy...but possible to obtain damages from the bad officer's sponsering jurisdiction. Again, POSSIBLE, but NOT EASY.

Last but not least, a Game Warden has EXACTLY the same powers of search as any other Law Enforcment Officer. He can check your game bag, cooler, or where ever else fish or game might reaonaly be kept but, absent the two prongs mentioned above, can go no further... ie he can't check inside the air cleaner of your motor.

Now, the reason the myth about Game Wardens' power of search exists is because the second prong...that of exigent circumstances... virtually ALWAYS EXISTS in a GW stop. We are afield or afloat when we are out hunting and fishing, right? Assuming he finds no "badness", everything is ok, right? I mean most folks are nothing but *relieved* when nothing is found amiss, aren't they. Of course. But if he finds a nice fat bag of heroin, you can bet he will be working on the "articulable suspician" part of the equation all the way to the county jail.

So much for Sunday Night Search and Siezure 101.

Pecos


----------



## REELING 65 (Aug 18, 2009)

bzrk180 said:


> You are mistaken...Like I said...Know your rights...


 If you are not breaking any laws and have nothing to hide. What is the big deal? When you tell them no! It just makes it worse. Thing's have changed in our Nation. We have one of the largest ports in the country. With that being said they are doing their job well . If-they have to do a complete search. Why do you think there is all this Law Enforcement? To keep us all Safe. They do not know if your not letting them look for,Undersized fish. Or Drug's ,bombs and what have you. For all of us to fish in the Gulf and Inshore in the bay systems. We all should appreciate their hard earned efforts. To protect the waters and the Great state of Texas. Thank you David Bourg


----------



## jamesgreeson (Jan 31, 2006)

Now they have searched some commercial boats and found plenty.


----------



## Privateer (Nov 28, 2009)

kabo0ky said:


> I been hearing horror stories about game wardens in galveston and freeport area searching your boat with an electric drill taking of panels searching for hidden fish. I don't fish the area on a regular basis, maybe 2 to 3 times a year. Just wondering if this was true or not. i don't think i can stand there a watch someone tear my boat apart especially if i'm legal.


Who did you "hear" this from? Did they get badge #'s? Were the recs hiding illeagal catches? We need more info! The worst damage the TPW GWs ever did to my boat was to run their aluminum Monarchs into the side of my boat to conduct a random search.

*Privateer*


----------



## rockyraider (Feb 1, 2006)

REELING 65 said:


> If you are not breaking any laws and have nothing to hide. What is the big deal? When you tell them no! It just makes it worse. Thing's have changed in our Nation. We have one of the largest ports in the country. With that being said they are doing their job well . If-they have to do a complete search. Why do you think there is all this Law Enforcement? To keep us all Safe. They do not know if your not letting them look for,Undersized fish. Or Drug's ,bombs and what have you. For all of us to fish in the Gulf and Inshore in the bay systems. We all should appreciate their hard earned efforts. To protect the waters and the Great state of Texas. Thank you David Bourg


I am a police officer and honestly, I'm not really up to speed on what "special search authority" that game wardens have over any other peace officers. I believe their search authority may be somewhat broader than the average law enforcement officer but I can't remember the details. My neighbor is a newly retired Lieutenant GW who was over the GW academy in Austin. I'll ask him about a GW's search authority the next time I see him.

As to why one would refuse to give consent..... because its a constitutional right granted to every American citizen. I'm obviously all about respect and admiration for our men and women in uniform, but I guarantee you that I would refuse a search in a heart beat if asked to give consent to search of my vehicle or boat if asked without reason. Its my right as a US citizen and as a law abiding person, I have no reason to allow someone to search my private property without a warrant. I have been checked before and you bet I was courteous and was more than willing to invite the GW's aboard as I had nothing to hide. If they wanted to start unscrewing panels we would have a serious issue.


----------



## Hydrocat (Jun 30, 2004)

That's why my buddy Darren got his Twin Vee. There are no fish boxes or storage areas at all on that boat. It makes the GW stops much quicker and he can be on his way.

hehehehehehehehe


----------



## 100% Texan (Jan 30, 2005)

bzrk180 said:


> A "search" requires a warrant, probable cause, or permission. Many people think that just because you are "asked" means you must comply. Know your rights!


Right there from the law never ok to a search of your vehicle never never give them permission to search your boat or any vehicle they will threaten to get a warrant so make them get one this advice comes from law enforcement I know real well like I said never give the po-po permission to seach your vehicle.


----------



## C. Moore (Nov 15, 2004)

myprozac said:


> I have everything in a file folder/binder in the boat and I just gave them that binder and told them I got nothing to hide. They flipped threw everything. Didn't bother me one bit. They did say that now that I have that carbon copy, just to show that to the CG next time they come up and it could prevent them from going threw everything. I thought it was kinda weird they wrote down all my Drivers License info, and even asked me for a current daytime phone number, but that was no big deal. Kinda seemed like they were possibly doing a survey????[/QUOTE]
> 
> The Coast Guard fills out a form 4100 "Report of Boarding" every time they do a boarding. It doesn't matter if you have violations or no violations. In the past, when I was in the Coast Guard, back in 87-91, we gave the operator the gold copy to keep on the boat if there were no violations. If there were violations, the operator got a different color copy. It's been a while. That's how we did it back then.
> 
> ...


----------



## Levelwind (Apr 15, 2005)

Pecos said:


> Without going into a lengthy discussion of search and siezure law at both the state and federal levels I point out the following:
> 1. *GENERALLY*, if consent to search IS NOT given, an LEO may *not* search without a search warrant*,*
> 
> *HOWEVER*
> ...


You may want to head your teaching career in a different direction.

"Last but not least, a Game Warden has EXACTLY the same powers of search as any other Law Enforcment Officer."

Not at all. A GW is the only LEO in Texas authorized to enter private property without a warrant, a reasonable articulable suspicion that a law is being broken, or the owner or agent's permission. The only requirement is that fish and or wildlife are likely to exist on the property.

A GW is also the only Texas LEO authorized to search your personal effects or vehicle when not on a public road without either a warrant, a reasonable articulable suspicion of lawbreaking, or your permission. The fact that you are hunting or fishing has been determined by the legislature to be a legal substitute for a reasonable articulable suspicion. This extends to any compartments or panels where game could be secreted (inside and engine cowl, hubcaps, etc.)

Lastly, A GW is empowered to board your boat to check your compliance with boater safety laws including "general seaworthiness" of your craft if afloat. This "safety survey" CAN be, if they want, quite extensive, much more than asking to see life vests.

GW's do not have "super powers" of search that a lot of people ascribe to them, however, they do have, due to the unique nature of their job, some "unique" powers the legislature has deemed necessary for them to be effective.


----------



## capn_billl (Sep 12, 2007)

They may not have "super powers", but out there they can pretty much do as they choose. Its their word against yours. If they find "ANY" traces of any illegal substance, even residue from a previous owner, (they have towed and sunk boats caught with a single MJ seed buried in the carpet). Try to stop or restrict them from doing their,"safety check", and your in for a bad day. That said, I've learned just keep the paperwork handy in a zip lock bag, (registration, license, insurance, chart 1, nav rules, etc...). Lifejackets, life ring, flares, first aid kit. Once I got all these together in a handy box, the boardings have been short and simple. The other side is they seem to be a lot more "active" lately. I've had them follow me, stop when I stop, turn when I turn, ... Reaction to increased "security threat"???, or getting us used to increased monitoring? I look like a crook? To my knowledge there has NEVER been an act of terrorism from a rec boat, but I've personally been escorted by CG gunships when I asked permission to cross a "security zone" (barbers cut).


----------



## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

I made a few phone calls this morning to find out what is actually happening. A Fountain was seized in Freeport and taken into custody for some extra searching recently. There are 2 new customs boats working Galveston to Freeport. But, what I was told (and considering the source) was that unless Customs has some very specific intel or a drug dog hits something that appears to be hidden, there's no way any drilling is going to happen during a casual stop. Plus, if the drilling fails to produce any evidence, then there's a liability issues for the damages. I was told they *might* take a cover off to look behind things, but again, that would be a very rare event. So, it sounds to me like we have all the makings of an urban legend going based upon one very rare seizure. That being said, what others have posted about being cooperative, letting them know if you have weapons and staying away from your fillet knives during any stop seems like good advice. Like I posted earlier, 2 weeks ago, we were boarded and it was all over in under a minute. Just make sure you are legal, make sure you have your papers ready (if you are documented) and make sure you have your TPWD card, and TDL ready and there shouldn't be any issues.


----------



## Fishin-Inc (May 27, 2004)

*LMAO*

Some pretty funny stuff here.


----------



## Pecos (Feb 20, 2006)

Levelwind said:


> You may want to head your teaching career in a different direction.
> 
> "Last but not least, a Game Warden has EXACTLY the same powers of search as any other Law Enforcment Officer."
> 
> ...


REALLY? And where in Texas law or, for that matter Federal law, do you find these excections? ANY Texas LEO may ask to see your identification and to view any license required to "do" what you are "doing"...driving, hunting, fishing, etc. ANY Texas LEO may ask to view your proof of insurance, your proof of ownership of a vehicle you are operating, and can preform reasonable investigation to determine one's compliance with state or federal statute...as in checking a shotgun for a plug, administering a DWI (vehicle or boat) suspect a HGN test, or checking your boat for the required safety equipment. I can virtually assure you that if a DPS officer pulls you over while you are headed home from deer camp with a deer carcass in your pickup, he is going to check for the correct "tag" on the animal...and may even check your hunting license to see if you have properly recorded the kill on your license. Don't believe me? Try speeding North on 35 around Dilley on a Sunday afternoon during deer season...

ANY LEO may check your game bag, Igloo, or fancy deer cooler in your deer camp, BUT MAY NOT take a hole saw to your trunk, your console, are even require you to open your glove compartment without an "articulable suspician" as the areas described are not NORMALLY used to store fish and game. Now if he rolls up on you in a dove field, after watching you from concealment filling your trunk with birds folowed by your hasty closing of your trunk...or sees a bloody bumper with deer hair on it...he HAS that "articulable suspician" and you are going to be searched.

If a DPS officer sees you shooting deer at night with a spotlight, he will arrest you. If a Game warden sees you robbing a 7/11, he will arrest you.

Quite simply, that is the law in the state of Texas...and what statute was it that you cited for your eroneous belief that Game Wardens possess a superior authority to perform non-consent searchs than any other Texas certified Law Enforcement Officers?

Pecos


----------



## Privateer (Nov 28, 2009)

Mont said:


> I made a few phone calls this morning to find out what is actually happening. A Fountain was seized in Freeport and taken into custody for some extra searching recently. There are 2 new customs boats working Galveston to Freeport. But, what I was told (and considering the source) was that unless Customs has some very specific intel or a drug dog hits something that appears to be hidden, there's no way any drilling is going to happen during a casual stop. Plus, if the drilling fails to produce any evidence, then there's a liability issues for the damages. I was told they *might* take a cover off to look behind things, but again, that would be a very rare event. So, it sounds to me like we have all the makings of an urban legend going based upon one very rare seizure. That being said, what others have posted about being cooperative, letting them know if you have weapons and staying away from your fillet knives during any stop seems like good advice. Like I posted earlier, 2 weeks ago, we were boarded and it was all over in under a minute. Just make sure you are legal, make sure you have your papers ready (if you are documented) and make sure you have your TPWD card, and TDL ready and there shouldn't be any issues.


Thanks for the try Mont! You did our homework for us. You made a great point "just be leagal"! But it looks like this thread may go all the way to the Supreme Court!

*Privateer*


----------



## Cat O' Lies (May 21, 2004)

well put Pecos!


----------



## Miles2Fish (Dec 2, 2008)

I understand it is important to know your rights...However, I have no idea why you guys are going back and forth on this matter? If a game warden asks you to open anything whether it is used to store game/fish of any kind are really going to tell him/her she may not look in there!?!?!? You are in for a bad day on the water or in the field if you start playing lawyer to these hard working men and women....I gaurantee you if they look hard enough they certainly can AND will find a reason to write as many citations as possible if you start acting all high amd mighty.....Sorry had to rant after reading all the lawyers' posts on this thread!


----------



## garrettryan (Oct 11, 2004)

I highly suggest putting on pirate hats and wielding plastic swords at any GW trying to board and get your BOOOOTTTYYY... RRRRRRRR


----------



## Levelwind (Apr 15, 2005)

Pecos said:


> REALLY? And where in Texas law or, for that matter Federal law, do you find these excections?


Chapter 12 of the Parks and Wildlife code.



Pecos said:


> ANY Texas LEO may ask to see your identification and to view any license required to "do" what you are "doing"...driving, hunting, fishing, etc. ...


Of course. Operative word, "ask".



Pecos said:


> ANY Texas LEO may ask to view your proof of insurance, your proof of ownership of a vehicle you are operating, and can preform reasonable investigation to determine one's compliance with state or federal statute...as in checking a shotgun for a plug, administering a DWI (vehicle or boat) suspect a HGN test, or checking your boat for the required safety equipment. ...


Yes, no, maybe. In the case of the shotgun plug, I think the LEO would need to be at minimum trained, and possibly commissioned by TPW.

As far as checking your boat, the same. Notice I said "board your boat to . ."
Sherrifs depts marine units (Galveston Co. has a fairly large one) are trained, and, I think, specifically empowered to perform boardings. Landlocked city PD (like a HPD traffic cop) in fact may be empowered to check your safety equipment on dry land. I very much doubt they are authorized to conduct marine boardings without the captains permission. This has as much to do with admiralty law as it does terrestrial law. Once aboard without the captains permission they are in charge of and liable for all that happens while they have deposed the captain. So although I don't understand this part of the law, I don't believe any untrained city cop is authorized to board a boat without the captains invitation, especially in coastal waters.



Pecos said:


> I can virtually assure you that if a DPS officer pulls you over while you are headed home from deer camp with a deer carcass in your pickup, he is going to check for the correct "tag" on the animal...and may even check your hunting license to see if you have properly recorded the kill on your license. Don't believe me? Try speeding North on 35 around Dilley on a Sunday afternoon during deer season...


Why wouldn't I believe you. Has never happened but it seems logical. Kansas Highway Patrol troopers catch "pheasant hunters" with a cooler full of meadowlarks (State bird) every year.



Pecos said:


> ANY LEO may check your game bag, Igloo, or fancy deer cooler in your deer camp, ...


If you give him permission, or he has probable cause, or a reasonable articulable suspicion of lawbreaking, or if he has a warrant *OR if he is an employee of or commissioned by the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department* *AND *when you say "in deer camp" you do NOT mean INSIDE a TEMPORARY RESIDENCE.

A GW's authority to inspect based on a reasonable assumption that the persons has been engaged in legal fishing or hunting generally doesn't apply inside a person's temporary residence and reverts to the general requirement to have reasonable suspicion or probable cause of a crime, or the owner's permission, or a search warrant.



Pecos said:


> BUT MAY NOT take a hole saw to your trunk, your console, are even require you to open your glove compartment without an "articulable suspician" as the areas described are not NORMALLY used to store fish and game. Now if he rolls up on you in a dove field, after watching you from concealment filling your trunk with birds folowed by your hasty closing of your trunk...or sees a bloody bumper with deer hair on it...he HAS that "articulable suspician" and you are going to be searched.


I agree no hole saws and probably not the glove compartment.

To be "reasonable and articulable (explainable) he would have needed to see you, or been advised by another, of illegal activity. Simply because he sees you shooting doves during dove season and putting them in your trunk, OR because he sees a bloody bumper with deer hair on it during deer season doesn't get it. There is no indication of illegal activity. He would need to be given permission, or seek a warrant. Denial of permission to search is generally NOT considered "suspicious activity" on which to base a warrant.

*OR IF* he were a TPW GW or empowered by the department (and no every LEO is not "deputized" by TPW). In this case the fact that you could reasonably be believed to have been engaged in hunting is enough for him to search, without a warrant and without your permission.



Pecos said:


> If a DPS officer sees you shooting deer at night with a spotlight, he will arrest you. If a Game warden sees you robbing a 7/11, he will arrest you.


And quite properly so.

And lest we forget the other difference in powers, as I stated earlier, a GW may enter any private property for purposes of law enforcement, or scientific research, etc. *WITHOUT the owners permission, or a warrant, or any suspicion that any law is being broken. *If the property is locked, they may whack the lock. The only requirement is that wildlife roam or may roam on the property.

No other LEO is authorized to do that without rs, pc, owners permission or a warrant. GWs are.



Pecos said:


> Quite simply, that is the law in the state of Texas...and what statute was it that you cited for your eroneous belief that Game Wardens possess a superior authority to perform non-consent searchs than any other Texas certified Law Enforcement Officers?
> 
> Pecos


So you see Pecos, it isn't really simple at all. A lot of folks believe GWs have almost unlimited powers of search and seizure. Which is not true. What IS true, that in very confined circumstances, they have powers which other LEOs do not. Reason? GW's need the authority to enter private lands, for instance, to effectively keep track of our natural resources. It's part of their job as determined by the state legislature. It's NOT part of the League City Police Department's job.

The legislature also determined that in order to do their job GWs could conduct searches of persons, their bags, etc. in the field without permission, P.C., R.A.S., or a warrant. Other officers can get away with similar intrusions, patdowns to "ensure the safety of themselves and others", etc. But they most assuredly may not walk up to citizens pursuing a legal activity* WHERE THERE IS NO SUSPICION of lawbreaking, *and search a persons self, bags, etc. without that person's permission or a search warrant.

I'm interested in the vessel boarding issue. I'm almost 100% sure that I am correct in that special certification and authorization would be required. Perhaps USCG authorization if in federal waterways (ICW) or past 9 ms offshore. I SUSPECT if you refused boarding to a "watercop" they would "detain" you and order you to shore under escort. But I'm just guessing. Not something I intend to find out about firsthand.

Oh, here are your references. I bolded some of it.

(b) Except as provided by Subsection (d), *a game warden or 
other peace officer commissioned by the department* who observes a 
person *engaged in an activity regulated by this code* or under the 
jurisdiction of the commission or reasonably believes that a person 
*is or has been engaged in an activity regulated by this code* or 
under the jurisdiction of the commission may inspect:
(1) any license, permit, tag, or other document issued 
by the department and required by this code of a person hunting or 
catching wildlife resources;
(2) any device that may be used to hunt or catch a 
wildlife resource; 
(3) any wildlife resource in the person's possession; 
and 
(4) the contents of any container or receptacle that 
is commonly used to store or conceal a wildlife resource.

(a) To enforce the game and fish laws of the 
state and to conduct scientific investigations and research 
regarding wild game or fish, *an authorized employee of the 
department may enter on any land or water where wild game or fish 
are known to range or stray.* No action may be sustained against an 
employee of the department to prevent his entering on land or water 
when acting in his official capacity


----------



## REELING 65 (Aug 18, 2009)

Privateer said:


> Thanks for the try Mont! You did our homework for us. You made a great point "just be leagal"! But it looks like this thread may go all the way to the Supreme Court!
> 
> *Privateer*


lmao-it's gonna be one of those threads.


----------



## REELING 65 (Aug 18, 2009)

Here's a good one. If the one's that are so concerned with being stopped. Could it be they have something to hide? The answer is plain and simple. Do not break any laws. Then you will not have anything to worry about-Right.
Ok-we are going to see if ya'll have any illegal Corky's-Lmao


----------



## Privateer (Nov 28, 2009)

REELING 65 said:


> lmao-it's gonna be one of those threads.


Yup! However, if the party of the first part would agree to deffered adjuication, I think we could work a deal with the DA on a insanity plea?


----------



## Pecos (Feb 20, 2006)

Guys, please do not interpret my discussion of Texas Search and Siezure Law with Levelwind as a suggestion to dispute the authority of ANY Texas Peace officer...whether a Game Warden or not. It GENERALLY is a bad idea to argue with any one with a badge and a gun as to what they can and cannot do. 
As I said in my original post, courtesy and cooperation are your best courses of action in dealing with ANY LEO. I cannot imagine the Coast Guard or any other law enforcement agency taking a sawsall to your boat without a very good reason. That said, if you and MAHISEEKER are coming in from a grouper run with a case of empty beer cans and an empty bottle of rum hidden under the forward berth, that might be a good time to NOT give someone permission to search if you are asked.:wink:

Pecos


----------



## Levelwind (Apr 15, 2005)

Miles2Fish said:


> I understand it is important to know your rights...However, I have no idea why you guys are going back and forth on this matter?!


Because it IS important to know your rights. And it is equally important to know where your rights END. Sorry you don't get it even though you say you do.



Miles2Fish said:


> If a game warden asks you to open anything whether it is used to store game/fish of any kind are really going to tell him/her she may not look in there!?!?!??!


Possibly. Maybe I don't want him looking at nude pictures of my girlfreind. I'll ask him WHY he wants to look in there, and if I get a good answer, (as in the guy down the pier told me you hide illegal fish in there, etc.) I'll let him look.



Miles2Fish said:


> You are in for a bad day on the water or in the field if you start playing lawyer to these hard working men and women....I gaurantee you if they look hard enough they certainly can AND will find a reason to write as many citations as possible if you start acting all high amd mighty.....Sorry had to rant after reading all the lawyers' posts on this thread!


That's Okay. We all need to rant sometimes. Son, I have had undercover USFWS agents in my goose spread who paid good taxpayer money to make a bust and failed, I have been checked many many times by Texas GWs, quite a few times in Kansas by KDWP guys, several times by USFWS conservation agents, and once by NOAA fisheries guys.

Most of these encounters were very smooth and pleasant. A couple were not. The couple which weren't involved USFWS agents. I have never recieved a citation while hunting or fishing. Not one in over fifty years.

I HAVE had USFWS agents stand in front of my blind during "prime time" completely uncaring that they were flaring flock after flock of birds not only for me but for my clients who were paying for the privelege and continued to hang around after they had checked everything there was to check in order to flare birds off us.

I HAVE had a USFWS agent empty my blind bag in a muddy rice field with three inches of water after he asked politely to search it and I agreed, since he seemed like a nice young fellow. Oh, and then walk off.

I Have had a GW accuse me of "dog trespass" and threaten me with some fuzzy, BS law after my Lab entered a refuge and retrieved a goose (he's not a good reader). I think I made the guy mad when I laughed out loud and told me to either write me a ticket or leave me alone.

Oh, by the way, the undercover guys checked everything but the color of our underwear and complimented me on the hunt and even tipped me, letting it be known the tip money was out of THEIR not the taxpayers, pocket. So not all Feds are bad. Just most of them.

If you fish and hunt long enough the time will come that you'll want to know your rights. It will PROBABLY (based on my experience) be in an encounter with a USFWS agent. When they start that intimidation **** it's good to know where you stand legally.

As far as your statement about their ability to issue tickets, well, if you pay attention, and read at the eighth grade level or above, you should have NO problem complying with fish and game laws. They're really simple, as laws go. When a Federal GW checks you, he will check everything he can, every WAY he can, and will give you NO slack. I've been through that drill at least half a dozen times and no ticket yet.


----------



## Levelwind (Apr 15, 2005)

Pecos said:


> Guys, please do not interpret my discussion of Texas Search and Siezure Law with Levelwind as a suggestion to dispute the authority of ANY Texas Peace officer...whether a Game Warden or not. It GENERALLY is a bad idea to argue with any one with a badge and a gun as to what they can and cannot do.
> As I said in my original post, courtesy and cooperation are your best courses of action in dealing with ANY LEO. I cannot imagine the Coast Guard or any other law enforcement agency taking a sawsall to your boat without a very good reason. That said, if you and MAHISEEKER are coming in from a grouper run with a case of empty beer cans and an empty bottle of rum hidden under the forward berth, that might be a good time to NOT give someone permission to search if you are asked.:wink:
> 
> Pecos


Couldn't agree more. I have tremendous respect and admiration for our guys and gals in green. I even respect most Feds. They work under different (zero tolerance) orders than do our State people but they are mostly not bad guys.


----------



## Pecos (Feb 20, 2006)

Levelwind, The statute you quoted does not *prohibit *any *TCLOSE *certified Texas Officer from enforcing the Parks and Wildlife Code. That is the nonexisitant morsel of Texas Law you seek.:biggrin:

Pecos


----------



## Pecos (Feb 20, 2006)

Miles2fish, Please humor Levelwind and me. We are lawyers and it is simply our nature to argue...and arguments about the law are the BEST!

Pecos


----------



## Levelwind (Apr 15, 2005)

Pecos said:


> Levelwind, The statute you quoted does not *prohibit *any *TCLOSE *certified Texas Officer from enforcing the Parks and Wildlife Code. That is the nonexisitant morsel of Texas Law you seek.:biggrin:
> 
> Pecos


No, not at all!

Any LEO has the authority to enforce any statute in the state, or Federal law for that matter.

However in the MANNER of enforcing the law (search and siezure, access to private property) TPWD personnel have some unique powers.


----------



## Privateer (Nov 28, 2009)

Levelwind said:


> No, not at all!
> 
> Any LEO has the authority to enforce any statute in the state, or Federal law for that matter.
> 
> However in the MANNER of enforcing the law (search and siezure, access to private property) TPWD personnel have some unique powers.


To the Honorable Levelwind Esq. and Pecos Esq. I am but a lowly Captain so please indulge my ignorance. It is my understanding of general law that even an individual citizen has the right to enforce the law, nay; the obligation to enforce the law when ever such private citizen sees a law being broken. Don't know... just asking.

*The Honorable Privateer, ESQ.*


----------



## Fishin-Inc (May 27, 2004)

*I'm back*

Lot's a pot smokin, beer drinkin, short fish, over limit, no license mofo's out there. And One guy for sure has bad stickers on his boat. 2008 If I remember right!!! LMAO

I was only harassed once and I almost shot the guy.

He was rooting through coolers in the dark on SLP many years ago.
He didn't wake us at all. He didn't say hello to camp! (tents)
I first thought he was a ****. Then I knew someone was going through my stuff. I had out a 16/0 and a 80-130 beastmaster. His excuse was he was looking for redfish. I think a load of OO would have splattered him from pretty far. Luckily, I put on my glasses before I racked in a round.
Or it would have been an ugly night and he would have had to change his shorts minimally. And they arguement would have gotten ugly.
I would have had no proof. We would have thought we were both right probably.

Play on....


----------



## Levelwind (Apr 15, 2005)

Privateer said:


> To the Honorable Levelwind Esq. and Pecos Esq. I am but a lowly Captain so please indulge my ignorance. It is my understanding of general law that even an individual citizen has the right to enforce the law, nay the obligation to enforce the law when ever such private citizen sees a law being broken. Don't know... just asking.
> 
> *The Honorable Privateer, ESQ.*


No obligation.


----------



## Privateer (Nov 28, 2009)

Levelwind said:


> No obligation.


 Thank you!
I have no further questions your Honor!

*Privateer*


----------



## Pecos (Feb 20, 2006)

Levelwind said:


> No, not at all!
> 
> Any LEO has the authority to enforce any statute in the state, or Federal law for that matter.
> 
> However in the MANNER of enforcing the law (search and siezure, access to private property) TPWD personnel have some unique powers.


AAARRRGGGHHHHH...not so!! The reason the GW has the right of access to private property where game exists, is to "enforce" a statute found in the Parks and Wildlife Code.

Let's take spotlighting deer for instance. Obviously ANY LEO can investigate and make an arrest for any offense he personally witnesses...so if a DPS guy is driving down FM 117 and sees a vehicle at night in a pasture and hears gun fire, he can enter the private property and arrest the T-sips so involved (an Aggie would never do anything so crass) as he has witnessed the offense.

Now let's say the Zavala Co. Sheriffs Office gets a call that some one is spottlighting deer on the XYZ Ranch. When the unit arrives, the deputies do NOT see any lights from the FM road. HOWEVER, they enter the ranch and, as they are making their investigation into the illegal deer hunting,they discover a large quantity of weed all wrapped up for transit in the back of a pickup and arrest everybody in sight.

At the motion to suppress the dope hearing, the sleazy ol' defense lawyer argued that since the Sheriffs Deputies were NOT game wardens, the search was illegal as they were on private property w/o a warrant. OOPS! The Court found that since they were* investigating* a reported* Parks and* *Wildlife* *Code* infraction when they stumbled on that dope deal, they had a right to be there.:work:

HELLOOOOO HUNTSVILLE!:headknock

Pecos


----------



## Pecos (Feb 20, 2006)

Privateer said:


> To the Honorable Levelwind Esq. and Pecos Esq. I am but a lowly Captain so please indulge my ignorance. It is my understanding of general law that even an individual citizen has the right to enforce the law, nay; the obligation to enforce the law when ever such private citizen sees a law being broken. Don't know... just asking.
> 
> *The Honorable Privateer, ESQ.*


Privateer, A Texas citizen has the same right to make an arrest w/o a warrant of anyone commiting a felony or a misdomeaner involving a breach of the peace, that occurs in his presence, that a certified LEO has.

*HOWEVER, I do not suggest that just because the Texas Code of Criminal Procedure provide for the making of a so called citizens arrest, that any of us should go out and get our Barney Fife on. Generally a bad idea guys...a bad idea.*

Do have "a duty"?. Well... would you act to protect a woman, or a child, or for that matter a man who you witnessed being raped, or maimed, or killed? If you saw a group of thugs burning down a church, or a school or your neighbor's house, would you act to stop them. If you saw a couple of jerks loading the ATM machine down at the 7/11 into their truck at 3am, would you call the police? If you.......get the picture?

If you call yourself a Texas Citizen and a man, *HECK YES you have a duty...don't you?*

Pecos


----------



## capt mullet (Nov 15, 2008)

bzrk180 said:


> A "search" requires a warrant, probable cause, or permission. Many people think that just because you are "asked" means you must comply. Know your rights!


for a cop yes but for a game warden no. Ha game warden can search your house, your car and your boat with no warrant. He is in essence the most powerful law enforcement officer in the state with these rules and I doubt seriously that anyone had their boat sawed apart for fish. Drugs yes but fish, not in a million years!


----------



## Privateer (Nov 28, 2009)

Pecos said:


> Privateer, A Texas citizen has the same right to make an arrest w/o a warrant of anyone commiting a felony or a misdomeaner involving a breach of the peace, that occurs in his presence, that a certified LEO has.
> 
> *HOWEVER, I do not suggest that just because the Texas Code of Criminal Procedure provide for the making of a so called citizens arrest, that any of us should go out and get our Barney Fife on. Generally a bad idea guys...a bad idea.*
> 
> ...


Objection your Honor! The scenarios presented in this instance are hearsay, fictitious, un-substantiated 
and mostly rhetorical at best. And that one about the man getting raped is just down-right freaky!
There is no way my client can answer these questions without incriminating me!

*Privateer*


----------



## Pecos (Feb 20, 2006)

"On yer plea of guilty, I find you not guilty...the bar is now open",
alledgedly spoken by Judge Roy Bean.

Pecos


----------



## Privateer (Nov 28, 2009)

Pecos said:


> "On yer plea of guilty, I find you not guilty...the bar is now open",
> alledgedly spoken by Judge Roy Bean.
> 
> Pecos


Now I'll drink to that! And as for that man getting raped... sorry but he's on his own!

*Privateer*


----------



## Swells (Nov 27, 2007)

capt mullet said:


> for a cop yes but for a game warden no. Ha game warden can search your house, your car and your boat with no warrant. He is in essence the most powerful law enforcement officer in the state with these rules and I doubt seriously that anyone had their boat sawed apart for fish. Drugs yes but fish, not in a million years!


What us old-timers are saying is "No." They have to ask just like any law enforcement officer. If they bully through that, you can have any evidence suppressed or erased in a court trial.

If you want to know the people who THINK they have the most power, it is the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission. They think they have more power than a GW. They're wrong, and have gotten into trouble over that repeatedly.

The GW are highly trained and I think much more ethical than the TABC. They have the right to detain any individual they think has probable cause and can get a warrant from a judge if they need to search anything, and it's just like any other LEO in the business.

Please stop all the BS now.

You know the deal, the GW is going to get mad because you claimed innocence and needed a search warrant. That's not good if you're innocent - might as well have shown him or her all the goodies and be done. But you do have rights under the laws. There are NO exceptions.

If you think a GW is abusing your Constitutional rights, call the Texas Rangers immediately. They can be reached at 512-424-2160.


----------



## DANO (May 23, 2005)

just keep 5 !


----------



## Cat O' Lies (May 21, 2004)

They all have godly powers "if" you think they do and do not know your rights. I was stopped a few years back at the GYB ramp after returning from the jettys. The GW was checking boats for the usual, illegal fish. He walked to my boat as I pulled it out of the water and asked if he could look through it. I respectfully declined his offer and he turned to go about his business. So, I asked him what the law was pertaining to his request to search my boat and after some coaxing, he admitted that at that point, he did not have reason or authority to search my boat. I told him that I didn't think his F-150 was amphibious, and went on my way. Of course that was about 5 years ago, some things may have changed since then but I knew what my rights were at the time.


----------

