# 5 wt Concept



## Fishsurfer (Dec 14, 2014)

I am thinking of making a new 5 wt for brown trout and other rocky bottom river species and would like some input. What is your favorite 5 wt and what are the characteristics that you like about it? What blank or rod brand do you like and why. If you could make it any way you want, what would you want it to do and what components do you prefer (grip, reel seat, guides, etc.)? I would really appreciate any input and any "out of the box" things that you think might work.


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## Permit Rat (May 13, 2014)

IMO, the blanks are a personal thing. My 5 wt. is actually a Loomis IMX 4 wt. rod that has yet to see a 4 wt. line. The danged thing will cast a 6 wt. in fresh water venues! IMO, this is a problem that mfgrs. have run into with graphite and really light sticks, where a slower action is/might be desirable. 

The only suggestion I can offer toward building such a rod, is that if you want a wooden insert for your reel seat (Loomis has these) then be careful for the dry fit. The wood will expand when it gets wet and you may not be able to slide the rings under those conditions. I know...I had one of those and had to turn it back in.

Edit: If you really want a more parabolic action, like closer to bamboo, then look at the older generation blanks, if you can find them. For example, my 3 wt. is made on a Loomis GL-3 blank. This is the old original graphite from the 70's and handles the 3 wt. line very well.


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## bugchunker (Dec 23, 2013)

I am in the process of building a new 5wt myself. As "Permit Rat" stated the feel of the rod is personel. Some like it very fast, others more full flex. I prefer a softer flex on my lite 1-5wt rods and faster on the bigger rods. That being said my all time favorite fly rod is the Sage Xi3 5wt that I built. It listed as a 5wt but it really a solid 6wt. It just fits my casting style and has a great feel. I use it a lot for Bass, as well as trout and Redfish. It can handle a slot size Red with no problem. The rod I am building is softer and lighter, and I hope will be a better fit for the lakes and rivers of the hill country. It's also going to be my throw down rod for guess and first time fisherman. The rod blank I am using for this project is a St. Croix 8' two piece from Mudhole. While listed as fast action it is not real fast. I went with the shorter 8' because A. I like shorter rods and B. manverability is more important the casting distance. For components I am using a standard reel seat and cork grip, nothing special. For guides, I only use the Recoil titanium, they are the best and they don't cost that much more. That my $.02 for what it's worth. I'm sure whatever you build will be great, and if not it will give you an excuse to build a new one.
P.S. If you are lookiing for really soft you my want to consider a fiberglass. I built a 4wt glass rod a couple of years ago that I call my "limp noodle". It's fun fighting even small fish on, but they will defenitly test your casting skills.


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## karstopo (Jun 29, 2009)

Not to put a fly in the ointment, but have you considered fiberglass? Lot's of new blanks out there, Blue Halo, Epic, and they are faster than the way back when glass rods but have the warmth and castability that some of these ultra fast carbon rods don't have. Going to offer better tippet protection than graphite too.


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## Fishsurfer (Dec 14, 2014)

Really appreciate the input. I was on the fence about a wood insert and was thinking stiff with a soft tip, but the fiberglass has really peaked my interest. Please keep it coming!


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## Permit Rat (May 13, 2014)

Dave Redington (Redington Fly Rods) sold out to Orvis, now several years ago. But more recently he has begun a new rod co. and is making primarily fly rods with fiberglass blanks. I tried to access his website but evidently he is having a problem, because I got a security warning. He is in Stuart, Fl., where I used to live. If you're really serious, I'll get a contact number for you.


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## karstopo (Jun 29, 2009)

http://www.flyfisherman.com/gear-accessories/new-fiberglass-rods-revolution/

Th above is an overview on the fiberglass movement.


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## Permit Rat (May 13, 2014)

That was a good read. Very interesting to note the author mentioned S-glass. This was a killer material and spinning/casting rods made from it, were almost as light as even second generation graphite (IM-6 era) and could boast super fast actions. The only difference was in the diameter of the blank, mostly toward the butt area. S-glass didn't last long in the late 70's, because graphite was right on its heels.


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## Worm Drowner (Sep 9, 2010)

Permit Rat said:


> Dave Redington (Redington Fly Rods) sold out to Orvis, now several years ago.


Not to be contrary, but I thought is was Far Bank Enterprises, parent of Rio & Sage. Orvis just bought Scientific Angler from 3M.


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## Permit Rat (May 13, 2014)

Worm Drowner said:


> Not to be contrary, but I thought is was Far Bank Enterprises, parent of Rio & Sage. Orvis just bought Scientific Angler from 3M.


 There's no telling what Orvis did with the company since they bought (Dave) Redington out, but my information came straight from the horse's mouth.


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## Worm Drowner (Sep 9, 2010)

You are absolutely correct. Orvis bought Redington in 1998 and sold them to Far Bank around 2003. I learn something new every day!


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## Permit Rat (May 13, 2014)

WD....no problem. You're over 50.....you have a right to lose track of time. I'm 65 and I can't believe how fast time flies.

Fishsurfer, I have been giving a lot of thought to your quandary and what Bugchunker intimated is absolutely correct....a super parabolic (limp) rod _will_ test your casting technique. To go one step further, you might find it a real pain in the a**. I don't know what kind of fishing you normally do, like in salt water.....sight casting....blind casting....Or even your trout fishing. You want to fish in the East? Or are you pretty much a western guy, fishing locally or even in Wyoming, Colorado, etc.?

Point is, that if you just blind cast a lot, you obviously don't want a super fast action. And unless you plan to fish in the East, where delicacy is a major concern, IMO, you don't need a super limp (bamboo action) rod either. That said, I suggest you find some fiberglass rods and try them out. Also see if you can find some older generation graphite whose blanks are a little slower. Find an action you like and then build your rod from the same or similar blank. In my limited experience with western tailwaters and generally bigger water, delicacy is not usually that much of an issue. You want a rod that casts according to your already-established comfort zone.


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## Fishsurfer (Dec 14, 2014)

Permit Rat said:


> WD....no problem. You're over 50.....you have a right to lose track of time. I'm 65 and I can't believe how fast time flies.
> 
> Fishsurfer, I have been giving a lot of thought to your quandary and what Bugchunker intimated is absolutely correct....a super parabolic (limp) rod _will_ test your casting technique. To go one step further, you might find it a real pain in the a**. I don't know what kind of fishing you normally do, like in salt water.....sight casting....blind casting....Or even your trout fishing. You want to fish in the East? Or are you pretty much a western guy, fishing locally or even in Wyoming, Colorado, etc.?
> 
> Point is, that if you just blind cast a lot, you obviously don't want a super fast action. And unless you plan to fish in the East, where delicacy is a major concern, IMO, you don't need a super limp (bamboo action) rod either. That said, I suggest you find some fiberglass rods and try them out. Also see if you can find some older generation graphite whose blanks are a little slower. Find an action you like and then build your rod from the same or similar blank. In my limited experience with western tailwaters and generally bigger water, delicacy is not usually that much of an issue. You want a rod that casts according to your already-established comfort zone.


I first fly fished way back in the late 60s in a tank (small pond for watering cows) on my grandparents farm in east Texas then later in streams/rivers in west Texas. These were fiberglass rods with a lot of flex and I basically did not know what the heck I was doing (not to say I know now). When I really got into it was around 1988 after watching a guy catch a red fish off a fly. They simple would not take anything else. Because it was so expensive I built my first fly rod off a Sage PRL blank in 1989, that I still have. I have built over 50 bait caster and spinning rods focusing mainly on performance. I stopped for a while because the technology seemed to stagnate up until about 10 years ago and then I started seeing real changes in the materials such as in guides and fiber matrixes in blanks, even reel seats. I have only made this 8wt and another 8wt (this year) with a TFO BVK blank. I absolutely love the BVK. The old sage blank has a lot of flex and is slower than the BVK so I have two distinct different rods that I can use. Definitely you have to work with the TFO for a long cast but the Sage cannot cast as far. The Sage can cast accurately at a shorter distance with the rod doing a lot more of the work. I have bought cheap 5, 6 and 7wt rods that I picked due to the way they feel and have fished with them in Tennessee, Wyoming, Utah, Colorado and southern Patagonia (Chile) mostly for Brown Trout and the likes. I am fortunate that my job takes me to these places and many more that I can fish at. The 5wt will be for brown trout mostly in not so windy conditions. I have come to a conclusion that I also want a 3wt rod after I do the 5wt. It will most definitely be a fiberglass rod. I am going to use a composite blank for the 5wt and am pretty sure it will be 8â€™6â€. What blanks do you suggest that are medium to fast or combination of a stiff midsection (belly) and a soft tip? Sorry for the book I just wrote.


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## Permit Rat (May 13, 2014)

No problem on the story......but I am ready for another beer! lol

The only thing I would say, is that I have heard a few bad reports about the BVK blanks, in that at least a few have broken. That said, I have no idea as to the circumstances behind said breakage, so I am usually hesitant to report things like that. I have 3 TFO rods and they are all the TiCr's. TFO has a great warranty but that doesn't do you any good in Patagonia, and the same holds true for any mfgr.

I am really NOT the one to ask about things like blanks, new equipment, etc. Where rods/blanks are concerned, whereas I used to have a rod building business in the Keys and kept up on all the blanks, that was probably one percent of what is available today. I was with Loomis most of the way through my guiding career and even after that, so did not pay much attention to other mfgrs. These were the days before the internet really got going and I did not have the time to go to fly fishing /tackle expositions, etc. Back in the day, I could have guided you to a Loomis blank that fit your criteria but Loomis stopped selling blanks so that wouldn't do much good now.

I think if it were me, and I lived in Texas, I would try to get into the TFO factory...or maybe ask them to direct you to a company or store that carried the widest selection of their blanks and rods in the style that you're looking for. I already offered to try and put you in touch with Dave Redington, if you decide to go the fiberglass route. But then again, after reading your post, I was left with the impression you had already chosen your blank. Sorry I couldn't be of more help.


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## YAKNTX (Jun 6, 2010)

Permit Rat said:


> No problem on the story......but I am ready for another beer! lol
> 
> The only thing I would say, is that I have heard a few bad reports about the BVK blanks, in that at least a few have broken. That said, I have no idea as to the circumstances behind said breakage, so I am usually hesitant to report things like that. I have 3 TFO rods and they are all the TiCr's. TFO has a great warranty but that doesn't do you any good in Patagonia, and the same holds true for any mfgr.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't mind seeing some of Dave's glass blanks. I'm interested in some private label glass blanks. 
Thanks for the reply.


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## bugchunker (Dec 23, 2013)

*New 5wt rod*

Just finished this 5wt rod, It is on a St. Croix 2piece blank. Sorry for the poor picture quality but I can't find my good camera. It's not much to look at, very utilitarian. It cast a SA 5wt trout line very nicely, with good flex and not much bounce. I would rate it overall as a medium to medium fast action. I have cast #4poppers to #12 nymphs and the rod handled them all well. I think I am really going to enjoy this rod for bass, perch, and later this year Guadalupe trout. Having fished several 5wt rods in saltwater I probably will not take this one, it feels a little too lite in the backbone. I would definetely recommend the St. Croix rod for your fresh water needs.


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## Fishsurfer (Dec 14, 2014)

bugchunker said:


> Just finished this 5wt rod, It is on a St. Croix 2piece blank. Sorry for the poor picture quality but I can't find my good camera. It's not much to look at, very utilitarian. It cast a SA 5wt trout line very nicely, with good flex and not much bounce. I would rate it overall as a medium to medium fast action. I have cast #4poppers to #12 nymphs and the rod handled them all well. I think I am really going to enjoy this rod for bass, perch, and later this year Guadalupe trout. Having fished several 5wt rods in saltwater I probably will not take this one, it feels a little too lite in the backbone. I would definitely recommend the St. Croix rod for your fresh water needs.


Looks sweet. I forgot about St. Croix blanks I will have to check them out. The TFO TiCR may be the direction I am heading for. I like the feel and the weight. I found some older G. Loomis GL3 blanks but they are not very straight, that's probably why they are still around, they do have the right feel though. The guides I am going to use will be #6 Ti Recoils (Black) with the lightest reel seat I can find using a graphite arbor. I like your all cork grip. The stripper guides will be Fuji Torzite rings with Ti frames KW #12 and #8. I will use mostly natural cork with two 1/2" burl rings added on a half Wells. One will be for the seat recess and the other in the middle at my hand placement. Silk thread for the translucent properties and I like the idea of using older styles mixed with new ones and a swooped metallic winding check. So I guess the blank is still a decision; I have narrowed it down to Sage, TFO, St Croix or old G. Loomis.


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## Unbound (Jul 12, 2004)

Fishsurfer said:


> I first fly fished way back in the late 60s in a tank (small pond for watering cows) on my grandparents farm in east Texas then later in streams/rivers in west Texas. These were fiberglass rods with a lot of flex and I basically did not know what the heck I was doing (not to say I know now). When I really got into it was around 1988 after watching a guy catch a red fish off a fly. They simple would not take anything else. Because it was so expensive I built my first fly rod off a Sage PRL blank in 1989, that I still have. I have built over 50 bait caster and spinning rods focusing mainly on performance. I stopped for a while because the technology seemed to stagnate up until about 10 years ago and then I started seeing real changes in the materials such as in guides and fiber matrixes in blanks, even reel seats. I have only made this 8wt and another 8wt (this year) with a TFO BVK blank. I absolutely love the BVK. The old sage blank has a lot of flex and is slower than the BVK so I have two distinct different rods that I can use. Definitely you have to work with the TFO for a long cast but the Sage cannot cast as far. The Sage can cast accurately at a shorter distance with the rod doing a lot more of the work. I have bought cheap 5, 6 and 7wt rods that I picked due to the way they feel and have fished with them in Tennessee, Wyoming, Utah, Colorado and southern Patagonia (Chile) mostly for Brown Trout and the likes. I am fortunate that my job takes me to these places and many more that I can fish at. The 5wt will be for brown trout mostly in not so windy conditions. I have come to a conclusion that I also want a 3wt rod after I do the 5wt. It will most definitely be a fiberglass rod. I am going to use a composite blank for the 5wt and am pretty sure it will be 8â€™6â€.* What blanks do you suggest that are medium to fast or combination of a stiff midsection (belly) and a soft tip? *Sorry for the book I just wrote.


Mentioning this gets a bit of debate on this board, but it does pertain to what you're looking for, so here goes.

Yellowstone Angler just came out with their 5wt shootout and you may want to check out their deflection charts. You've also mentioned St Croix, and here is what Yellowstone Angler says about the Legend Elite.

_The Legend Elite has very good butt and mid-section power, as youâ€™ll see on the deflection charts. Yet is has a softer tip and this is why it casts so well at short range. _ 

http://www.yellowstoneangler.com/ge...ardy-wraith-sagemod-sage-bolt-loop-optistream

I'm not neccessarily recommending the Legend Elite because I've never cast one, but it does seem to fit what you're looking for. I do have the St Croix Imperial in a 4 wt and I love it. I'm looking at building a 6wt myself, and I'm considering the Legend Elite. I'm also looking at the Mud Hole X. Have you looked at or have any opinion of the MHX?


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## Fishsurfer (Dec 14, 2014)

*Finally Got it done.*

Just finished my Christmas present. TFO BVK 5wt 8'6", Fuji SIC Ti Frame stripers, REC TiCr snakes and a REC ABS uploading reel seat with a Curly Koa insert. Used Pearsall Naples silk thread for the wraps and Gudebrod Silver for accents. The grip is natural cork with a burl piece at the insert, shaped for my big hand. Rod really casts great at distance (75'+) and into the wind but is a bit too stiff for a short delicate cast, 20' to 50'. Guess I will have to get on that 4wt fiberglass rod for that. Looks like it will work good though for calm saltwater bays and traveling as well as being able to accept a 6wt line pretty handily.


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## Worm Drowner (Sep 9, 2010)

Nice looking rod there! Now you gotta post a pic of your first fish caught with it!


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