# Ar 15



## TexasArmor84

Wanting to buy an ar but not an expert on them don't want to spend more than $1200 any recommendations would use it for hunting and some weekend accuracy shooting any recommendations thanks


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## mustangeric

first off what kind of hunting do you want to do with it?


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## TexasArmor84

Really want one for accuracy hog hunting etc. multipurpose


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## gm

*check out PK firearms, Rock River*

Check out the Rock River ARs at pkfirearms.com.


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## Yak a Tak

Academy. I bought Stag mod1 for $949.


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## mustangeric

hog hunting you could get away with a .223 but you would be better off with a 6.8 ar then you can hunt deer and hogs and get some long range punching power.


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## TexasArmor84

Really just want a .223 Iam willing to pay around $1200 tops what are some really good top models and brands


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## Raptured

Had a Bushmaster and was very pleased with it. Went through 500 rds in a 3 day course w/no prob! It was cold, raining and muddy. Whatever u get just keep it lubed, and clean...


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## dwilliams35

TexasArmor84 said:


> Really just want a .223 Iam willing to pay around $1200 tops what are some really good top models and brands


"top models and brands" and "$1200" don't really belong in the same sentence.. Just go with any of the brands you've heard of, Bushmaster, Colt, Rock River, DPMS, etc.: they've all got midrange models that would fit into that price range. Stay away from the M4 style if you are after benchrest accuracy: they're accurate enough, but they fall on their face compared to what a standard 20" HBAR A2 will generally do.

Look for heavy barrels: that'll do ya better on the "weekend accuracy" part than the hunting part. Don't worry much about what's on it, they're all built to the milspec to one level or another, and unless you get well beyond that price point, there's not much difference between them: you can change it into any configuration you want to, as well.


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## SmithEC

Raptured said:


> Had a Bushmaster and was very pleased with it. Went through 500 rds in a 3 day course w/no prob! It was cold, raining and muddy. Whatever u get just keep it lubed, and clean...


I'm intrigued. I'm also nosy.

Who was your course with? There's a lot I don't know, I know. The only carbine course I know of that actually goes 3 days is the Travis Haley carbine 1 or 2. There's plenty I don't know, and am always curious to hear of other training opportunities.

As for the original question, all I can say is I believe that there is probably plenty that will work for you. I just don't know what's available where.

Don't get caught up in internet nonsense. I'm not a sniper and you're probably not a sniper and plenty of those rifles will work just fine.

My one AR is a Colt SP6940. An accidental good purchase last year. The good news is that things being what they are, it is now worth what I paid for it.

I think another good thing to remember is that if you find one, just remember that you did not shoot as much as 1 round last year, therefore you don't need to try to purchase 3,000 rounds before the weekend hits.

Good luck. I hope you find something.

.


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## TexasArmor84

I've been looking at colt and windham I know colt is way better but I think windham has a nice rifle and here good things plus with the money I save I can add upgrades


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## Capt Scott Reeh

IMHO.....FWIW, don't get caught up in all the Colt name hype.


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## TexasArmor84

I've been looking at the windham weaponry they have good prices academy has them for $800 to $900 good reviews want to get something different


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## dwilliams35

So get it if you like it...

Colt is a good gun: I'm not positive, but I'd say nobody's done more on the platform than they have.. the one Colt I've got is solid as a rock, beautiful tolerances, etc...

Again, make sure that's what you want: the Academy/Walmart/etc. AR's are just that: mass-market AR's. If you're wanting something more aimed for accuracy, a M4 configuration with the pencil-thin barrel isn't what you want: they've very accurate for what they are, but there's a lot more out there better suited for accuracy work..


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## randeg

*AR15*

Unless you get a high end rifle, which are available, IMHO you should replace the trigger. On the lower end rifles the trigger pull is around 6-8 lbs. That is a damper on accuracy. There are good trigger groups available from $50 to $300. Do some research.


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## glenbo

I just recently bought a DS Arms Ar15 at the Arms Room, it has a true M16 bolt, nice touch which surprised me. Haven't fired it yet but it looks, feels great and fits me right. Price was $1000 without rear sight or carry handle, so I bought a carry handle/rear sight from them. It's a worthless POS made in China and has the wrong screw threads to work with tritium rear sight. Great gun, horrible rear sight. Seems like anymore that's par for the course with them, 1 part good and 1 part worthless.


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## TexasArmor84

When you say heavy barrel will it say it in the specs?
Also you have a make and model in mind please post it thanks colt, windham, rock river, etc


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## D'sBaystealth

You can search the internet and look up some brands of AR's that are available, Stag Arms, is one. You may try AIM surplus and see if any are available under long guns. There is a gun show coming to the Pasadena Convention Center in the next couple of weeks. You may want to visit and see what they may have to offer.


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## jtburf

Texas Armor ..read this...

http://www.fieldandstream.com/photo...-best-ar-style-rifles?photo=0#node-1001327451

John


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## dwilliams35

TexasArmor84 said:


> When you say heavy barrel will it say it in the specs?
> Also you have a make and model in mind please post it thanks colt, windham, rock river, etc


 It's relative: you can get a standard Milspec HBAR, which is much heavier than the M4 profile (among others), all the way up to a full-blown bull barrel that's too heavy to do anything BUT benchrest work. There's not much of a standardization of what they actually call it, beyond the milspec M4 "profile": there's a lot of different thicknesses, a lot of different profiles of the cut.

Rock River has a pretty good range of what I'm talking about: look at the Entry (that's tactical entry, not price-point entry) model vs. the varmint models..

http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=213

I for one am a fan of Colt, but their civilian product line is currently somewhat limited as they pour their production into government contracts: pretty much any of those "name brands" are going to be fine, it's all mil-spec anyway. I've just put together most of mine piecemeal, so it's hard to call them any given "brand'..

The "non-tactical market" is having a hard time making that philosophical leap here: they want a brand and model like Winchester model 70 or Remington 700. When you get into AR's there is very little actual difference between brands, and very little to distinguish one from another: there are really low end guns that may even use army surplus parts, and high end guns that are custom fitted from the ground up that take the tolerances to a spectacular level, but most all of them are just basically working off the same blueprint. Thus the "build your own" market: Lowers are all the same, just some may have a little better detail work on cleaning up the casting, and have a cooler rollstamp on the side: they're still all the same. For the most part (at least in the 5.56 frame) you can yank an upper off one gun and put it on any other in seconds. There's really just not that much of a difference between guns.

Some have better triggers than others, but that, like about everything on the rifle, is an easy swap. I've got a DPMS .308 that had the worst trigger I've ever bought on a rifle before: I replaced it with what is arguably the best replacement trigger on the market, and it changed the whole rifle as a result. These changes on an AR rarely require a gunsmith.


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## Flat Trout

$849 for SW M&P flat top at my lgs the other day.

Sent from my windows phone using Board Express


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## TexasArmor84

So many options.


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## DIHLON

I bought the Sig Sauer M400 for my first AR. I have already added quite a few goodies to it. So far it has performed flawlessly. You don't have to spend $2K for a good firearm.


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## Ernest

Barrel, trigger, ammo, free float, optics. Thats what makes an accurate AR. Focus on those issues, rather than "name brand" or roll mark. 

The Wilson stainless barrels available from a bunch of people - including RRA - are usually good shooters for a high volume/mass production type barrel. Oly. used to make some great barrels. Don't know about more recent times. 

Lowers are basically lowers (just so long as they are not from some junk mfger), same with uppers and stocks. 

Bill Springfield does a real nice trigger job on stock parts for short money. Not a competition trigger, but a solid job for the money. 

Today's Wyndham is yesterdays Bushmaster. Same old facility and a good number of the old crew.


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## TexasArmor84

Are the sig sauer any good


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## dwilliams35

TexasArmor84 said:


> Are the sig sauer any good


Yes, they're good guns. As I remember, though, they're all gas piston: that's a little different animal than a standard AR. That's always good for a good argument as to whether that's better than a standard system or not... One way or another, it may limit you somewhat on modifications later..


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## TexasArmor84

So what gas system do you recommend


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## Back Bay boy

I have a Palmetto State Armory. Both 223/5.56 with E.o Tech sites... Real nice rifle..


Academy had few for sale some under 1k I think they were Mossbergs.
I found a 60 round clip today at Texas Guns here in Corpus..


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## bigdaddyflo

Carter's country in Pasadena has quite a few AR15's on the shelf. You might consider looking at a variety before making a purchase. They also have ammo in stock - 100 rounds .223/55grfmj for around $65 (best of my recollection). Was just there this afternoon.


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## SmithEC

Back Bay boy said:


> I have a Palmetto State Armory. Both 223/5.56 with E.o Tech sites... Real nice rifle..
> 
> Academy had few for sale some under 1k I think they were Mossbergs.
> I found a 60 round clip today at Texas Guns here in Corpus..


It's funny that you'd mention Mossberg and Texas Guns in the same post.

The last time I went into that place there was an employee who was explaining to a customer why they don't sell Mossberg shotguns. I know you didn't just say they do. I know you said Mossberg at Academy and 60 round clips or magazines at Texas Guns.

The reason they don't sell Mossberg is because Wal Mart does. They have this idea that folks will make an "it must be cheap **** if Wal Mart sells it" equation. They're probably right.

The Sig that the OP asks about may be an okay option. Does it sell without sights, though? I think maybe it does. You'd want to hold it first, though, and make sure that the play in the handguards isn't going to bother you. This assuming that you're talking about a Classic model with the poly handguards.

I have one of the latest generation Sig 556R rifles. The loose handguards bothered me enough that I ended up putting a TROY battlerail on it. Then 200 bucks more for TROY sights. Then a MAGPUL stock.

I suppose that Sig-branded red dot sight they ship with it suits some folks. I gave mine to a cheapskate I work with. I figured he'd appreciate it more than me.

Some people like Sig right out of the box, though.


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## Back Bay boy

No I found the 60 round clip at Texas Guns the Mossberg was at Academy. I have a AR with a New Frontier Lower...


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## dwilliams35

TexasArmor84 said:


> So what gas system do you recommend


 There's only two, gas piston or gas impingement: Gas impingement (GI, also called Direct Impingement), is the standard system on the mil-spec AR. I'm more of a fan of the GI personally: I can see the basic principle of the piston design, and why they do it, but it's still just a few more moving parts to deal with, you have more to worry about fitting if you ever want to swap handguards and such, and there's this little issue of there being a few hundred million AR's and M-4's and 16's that have been successfully running for decades with the GI system.. (and a bunch of other guns that have been running well with the pistons). Just always struck me is a cure for a problem that didn't really exist.

(Cue some random gas piston aficionado now to tell me what an idiot I am.....)


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## dwilliams35

SmithEC said:


> It's funny that you'd mention Mossberg and Texas Guns in the same post.
> 
> The last time I went into that place there was an employee who was explaining to a customer why they don't sell Mossberg shotguns. I know you didn't just say they do. I know you said Mossberg at Academy and 60 round clips or magazines at Texas Guns.
> 
> The reason they don't sell Mossberg is because Wal Mart does. They have this idea that folks will make an "it must be cheap **** if Wal Mart sells it" equation. They're probably right.
> 
> The Sig that the OP asks about may be an okay option. Does it sell without sights, though? I think maybe it does. You'd want to hold it first, though, and make sure that the play in the handguards isn't going to bother you. This assuming that you're talking about a Classic model with the poly handguards.
> 
> I have one of the latest generation Sig 556R rifles. The loose handguards bothered me enough that I ended up putting a TROY battlerail on it. Then 200 bucks more for TROY sights. Then a MAGPUL stock.
> 
> I suppose that Sig-branded red dot sight they ship with it suits some folks. I gave mine to a cheapskate I work with. I figured he'd appreciate it more than me.
> 
> Some people like Sig right out of the box, though.


 I was assuming that he's talking about a Sig 516: it's a piston gun, but it's still an AR: the 556 is a completely different animal...


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## dwilliams35

Back Bay boy said:


> No I found the 60 round clip at Texas Guns the Mossberg was at Academy. I have a AR with a New Frontier Lower...


 Any problems with that lower yet?


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## Back Bay boy

dwilliams35 said:


> Any problems with that lower yet?


Not yet I heard things but it has been gutted....


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## dwilliams35

Back Bay boy said:


> Not yet I heard things but it has been gutted....


 Gutted? You lost me there..


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## Back Bay boy

Just mean some things were changed up is all..


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## stdreb27

If you're in corpus, academy had quite a few AR's in stock on Sunday.


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## Back Bay boy

stdreb27 said:


> If you're in corpus, academy had quite a few AR's in stock on Sunday.


Ya I got a box of 5.56 for .5.99$ and a box of 223 for 14$ but I could only buy 20 rounds each. I ended up with a box from drugs and guns 100 count of 5.56 for 64$

I am fixing to scout out Wal Mart manager called me about the episode I had with the employees and they are suppose to get a shipment in. He also told me they get the most ammo at the Wal mart in Ingleside. 100 rounds for 34$


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## Back Bay boy

dwilliams35 said:


> Gutted? You lost me there..


To be honest with you I do not know as much as I pretend. I take my AR to get cleaned I never mess with the innards. Ben at drugs and guns charges 25$ and gun back usually that day. My other guns ya I do but the ARs never. I hope with some upgardes done on gun. I hope to not have any problems. I got the New Frontier off here 2cool I got a good price.


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## dwilliams35

Back Bay boy said:


> To be honest with you I do not know as much as I pretend. I take my AR to get cleaned I never mess with the innards. Ben at drugs and guns charges 25$ and gun back usually that day. My other guns ya I do but the ARs never. I hope with some upgardes done on gun. I hope to not have any problems. I got the New Frontier off here 2cool I got a good price.


Everything I've heard bad about them has been standard polymer-lower stuff, but it's always been somebody's brother in laws barber's plumber's friend who had the problem, never anybody who actually owned it. I may be just having a brain fart, but seems like I remember there being something non-mil spec about that lower that is going to make a few upgrades problematic: seems like it was something regarding trigger pin diameters or clearances..


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## SmithEC

SmithEC said:


> ... The last time I went into that place there was an employee who was explaining to a customer why they don't sell Mossberg shotguns. I know you didn't just say they do. *I know you said Mossberg at Academy and 60 round clips or magazines at Texas Guns*. ...





Back Bay boy said:


> No I found the 60 round clip at Texas Guns the Mossberg was at Academy. ...


Like I said!

.


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## Back Bay boy

dwilliams35 said:


> Everything I've heard bad about them has been standard polymer-lower stuff, but it's always been somebody's brother in laws barber's plumber's friend who had the problem, never anybody who actually owned it. I may be just having a brain fart, but seems like I remember there being something non-mil spec about that lower that is going to make a few upgrades problematic: seems like it was something regarding trigger pin diameters or clearances..


I have had no problems as of yet. Check it out and you tell me if I can expect some.

$1400 OBO w/ eotech and accessories, $1100 for rifle w/ 2 pmags.

I've run about 60 rounds through it in a mix of 223, 5.56, steel case and brass and it went boom every time.

best way to contact me is to PM me here or email @ [email protected] for contact info. Not really interested in shipping, I'm in the Katy area and I'm willing to meet up in any dark alley of your choosing around town...errr sort of. Would be willing to meet at local gun range if needed.

New Frontier polymer lower
MidwestPX.com

Palmetto State Armory 16" Premium upper in 5.56
PSA M4A1 Premium Madness - 16'' CMV CL Stripped Upper - Without BCG or Charging Handle

Young MFG National Match FA BCG
Rainier Armsâ„¢ | Browse | Bolt Carrier Assemblies | Young Mfg National Match Bolt Carrier Group

BCM/VLTOR #3 charge handle
BCM GUNFIGHTER Charging Handle GFH Mod 3 7.62

Magpul MBUS & MOE Hand guard in FDE
HAND GUARDS - MOEÂ® Hand Guard, Carbine-Length - AR15/M16

SOG Armory Mil Spec receiver extension (buffer tube) w/ carbine weight and regular adjustable stock (nothing fancy)

Magpul B.A.D. lever


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## Back Bay boy

SmithEC said:


> Like I said!
> 
> .


I have a Mossberg 18' shotgun and I love it. Great gun has never let me down..


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## jamisjockey

OP
If you want an accurate AR15 first step is to ditch the two piece handguard design that is standard. You're going to want one with a longer barrel and a free float handguard setup. Flat top so you can customize your optics.
You really want to rock and roll.... roll your own. I'm on my second build and it's easy and awesome. Pick your parts, assemble, rock out.

My homebuilt in action with really cheap laqured ammo



ignore that you're staring at my crotch now.


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## jamisjockey

Back Bay boy said:


> To be honest with you I do not know as much as I pretend. I take my AR to get cleaned I never mess with the innards. Ben at drugs and guns charges 25$ and gun back usually that day. My other guns ya I do but the ARs never. I hope with some upgardes done on gun. I hope to not have any problems. I got the New Frontier off here 2cool I got a good price.


Dood you've got to learn to disassemble and clean an AR yourself. What will you do after the zombies come and your gunsmith has been bit?
:rotfl:
Seriously though it's easy and part of the fun man. 
I can field strip an AR and the bcg in under 60 seconds! :flag:


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## Back Bay boy

jamisjockey said:


> Dood you've got to learn to disassemble and clean an AR yourself. What will you do after the zombies come and your gunsmith has been bit?
> :rotfl:
> Seriously though it's easy and part of the fun man.
> I can field strip an AR and the bcg in under 60 seconds! :flag:


Well I want to but I just have not messed with it. I was told what ever you do do not take the pins all the way out so I kinda got spooked and did not want to show up at gun shop with a bunch of parts to re assemble. I know when I bought it the guy took it apart in like 2 seconds..


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## jamisjockey

Which pins? the takedown pins? If they come all the way out, you have bigger problems.
Advance this video to about 7:20


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## Back Bay boy

jamisjockey said:


> Which pins? the takedown pins? If they come all the way out, you have bigger problems.
> Advance this video to about 7:20


He may of thought I would force them out..


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## Back Bay boy

Back Bay boy said:


> No I found the 60 round clip at Texas Guns the Mossberg was at Academy. I have a AR with a New Frontier Lower...


Sorry I meant to say Magazine It is just what comes out..

This is the New Frontier I am talking about.


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## jamisjockey

Back Bay boy said:


> He may of thought I would force them out..


I could see that. When you pop them through, though, they have a natural catch where they stop. Do the back one first and pivot the gun on the front one. This is also how you can just field strip the upper to get the bolt out. A well lubed bolt is a happy bolt.


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## jamisjockey

My neighbor across the street just bought a new DPMS oracle. He's literally never fired an AR15 before. Gave him a course on teardown and cleaning yesterday and some basic operation. Helping him get his equipment selected and decide what he wants to do as far as changes or mods.
My schedule is a little wacky, but if anyone wants to get with me I have a great work bench and can give you a crash course on busting your AR down for cleaning and minor repairs.


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## TexasArmor84

Well guys I ended up getting a windham weoponry src it's a site ready model now can anyone give me info on what sites and accessories to buy, got it for $800 OTD Lifetime Warranty on it also









Model: Caliber: Type: Action: Capacity Safety: Receiver: Receiver Material: Receiver Finish: Bolt Material: Barrel: Barrel Material: Rifling: Stock: Forend / Pistol Grip: Rear Sight: Front Sight: Packaging:
R16M4FTT
.223 Rem. / 5.56mm NATO
Rifle
Semi-Automatic, Gas Impingement System
30 + 1- Ships with one 30 Round Magazine (accepts all std. sizes) Manual Lever with Indicator Markings on Both Sides of Receiver M4A4 Type Flat Top Upper Receiver
Forged 7075 T6 Aircraft Aluminum with Aluminum Trigger Guard Hardcoat Black Anodize Finish
Carpenter 158 Steel - MP/HP Tested
16â€ M4 Profile, Chrome Lined with A2 Flash Suppressor
4150 Chrome Moly Vanadium 11595E Steel w. M4 Feed Ramps
1 Turn in 9â€ - Right Hand Twist
6 Position Telescoping Buttstock with Windham Weaponry Logo M4 Double Heat Shield Handguards / A2 Black Plastic Grip
None - Ready for optics or other type accessory sights
None - Picatinny Rail Gas Block - Ready for accessory sights
Hard Plastic Gun Case with Black Web Sling & Operators Manual
Windham Weaponry â€œSRCâ€
Specifications: Windham Weaponry â€œSRCâ€ Weight: 6.30 Lbs. (without magazine)
Length Overall: 36.125â€ (32.375â€ with Telestock collapsed)


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## jamisjockey

Do not put a magpul on that has block up front....it will melt. 
Is the gas block rail the same height as the receiver rail?


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## Capt Scott Reeh

Here ya go....take your pic.

http://www.armsmounts.com/default.asp?mode=products&sub=sights


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## dwilliams35

jamisjockey said:


> Do not put a magpul on that has block up front....it will melt.
> Is the gas block rail the same height as the receiver rail?


There's a bunch of magpul stuff that would fit on that rail: he means the magpul pop-up sights: good sights, relatively cheap, and sold as a set; the heat from the gas block will melt the front one, which is why they don't sell a "gas block" height: whether you need that height or not.. I've heard they actually have just introduced a metal version, though, but it's in the same price range as all the others.

Just get a red dot or standard scope for now and you won't have to worry about that front end..


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## TexasArmor84

Yes jamisjockey it is the same level


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## TexasArmor84

So what do you think about a slotted cut/ diamond cut free floating hand guard


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## dwilliams35

Makes life easier if the upper and the gas block rail are in the same plane: as in, for real put a straightedge across them in the same plane. You don't have to hunt down gas block sights if it's high like that. Most gas block rails are lower than the upper receiver rails, so you have to have different height sights front and rear..


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## TexasArmor84

Also what do you guys think of my decision on the windham


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## dwilliams35

TexasArmor84 said:


> So what do you think about a slotted cut/ diamond cut free floating hand guard


 Which one?

Remember, most of your free float guards aren't just yank your handguards off and put the new one on: you've got to pull your gas block off to get the parts off, you have to get a new barrel nut that is threaded to take the free float guard, you may have to get the correct 
"front end" piece (optional, really) to close up the gap between the front end of the handguard and the barrel, etc...


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## dwilliams35

TexasArmor84 said:


> Also what do you guys think of my decision on the windham


 Nothing wrong with it: good guns. Like has been said, it's all milspec stuff: as long as you don't have a VERY low end gun, or for that matter a high-end gun, there's not much difference between them. If you got a good deal, you did good.


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## TexasArmor84

The one I looked at diamond two piece will snap in replacing the old one but yes the free floating requires a low profile gas block


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## dwilliams35

If you're taking the gas block off anyway, I'd just get a standard one piece ; lots more to choose from, swapping it is no big deal, and I wouldn't be surprised if it was more stable.


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## jamisjockey

There are some drop in two piece free floating handguards out there. 
http://www.midwestindustriesinc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=422

It's all about preference. Free float increases accuracy. But are you going to be long range shooting a carbine anyways? 
You've got plenty of options. Drop in two piece with rails, or customizable. Replace with free float. Replace gas block with integral sight.
Hell you could leave it as is, put an optic on it and a pair of BUIS flip downs.


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## TexasArmor84

I want this rail http://www.windhamweaponry.com/shopexd.asp?id=203 it requires a low profile block will I be able to add this they have it on there cdi model


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## jamisjockey

TexasArmor84 said:


> I want this rail http://www.windhamweaponry.com/shopexd.asp?id=203 it requires a low profile block will I be able to add this they have it on there cdi model


You have to swap the gas block and remove the delta ring and its assembly.
Easy enough.
http://230grain.com/showthread.php?...p-install-an-AR-15-barrel-gas-tube-delta-ring
Where are you located?


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## TexasArmor84

Brazoria county


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## jamisjockey

I'm in Pearland at the 288 end (SW of bass pro).
I've got the tools if you want to borrow them sometime if you need, or can help with it if you want (as long as you don't go insane if I scratch something!)


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## SmithEC

I did a Rifle Gunfighting class up in Liberty Hill this weekend. The instructor did a demonstration where he placed a CAR-15 on the lowered tailgate of his truck. He placed it so that the barrel was hanging over the edge of the tailgate, then he sat on the receiver. He then demonstrated that you can flex that barrel pushing down on it with two fingers.

It demonstrates why some folks are interested in the free float scheme. I'm still not interested personally, but we're talking about your rifle, not mine.

Someone tell me this, though: It would seem evident to me that once you install a low profile gas block on it, you should then be free to replace carbine length handguards with full length ones. Is that correct? Ya'll probably already covered that, but I missed it.

Your interests and mine are not the same, but I'll never buy into somebody saying that a particular rifle is meant to be this or that. As long as you are the one spending the money, it's meant to be whatever you want.

I've got a barrel shaped like that on my Colt. It's shaped like that so that you can put a grenade launcher on the rifle. Is the rifle meant to have a grenade launcher on it?

I don't have one on mine.

.


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## jamisjockey

SmithEC said:


> I did a Rifle Gunfighting class up in Liberty Hill this weekend. The instructor did a demonstration where he placed a CAR-15 on the lowered tailgate of his truck. He placed it so that the barrel was hanging over the edge of the tailgate, then he sat on the receiver. He then demonstrated that you can flex that barrel pushing down on it with two fingers.
> 
> It demonstrates why some folks are interested in the free float scheme. I'm still not interested personally, but we're talking about your rifle, not mine.
> 
> *Someone tell me this, though: It would seem evident to me that once you install a low profile gas block on it, you should then be free to replace carbine length handguards with full length ones. Is that correct? Ya'll probably already covered that, but I missed it.*
> 
> Your interests and mine are not the same, but I'll never buy into somebody saying that a particular rifle is meant to be this or that. As long as you are the one spending the money, it's meant to be whatever you want.
> 
> I've got a barrel shaped like that on my Colt. It's shaped like that so that you can put a grenade launcher on the rifle. Is the rifle meant to have a grenade launcher on it?
> 
> I don't have one on mine.
> 
> .


Yes. I'm putting an extended rifle length (15") on my current 20" build.



The gas block is at standard "rifle length", so it and the gas tube will be completely hidden on this build.

My biggest regret with the carbine I built is not doing a low profile with a longer handguard.
I still might swap that out in the near future....


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## TexasArmor84

Any thoughts on good iron sites


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## dwilliams35

That depends on the gas block, and the hand guard: it's not guaranteed that the two will fit together, even with a FF guard and "low profile" block: there's no standard for "low profile"...


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## dwilliams35

TexasArmor84 said:


> Any thoughts on good iron sites


 There's a bunch of 'em: really just find some you like and go for it: any of the "brand names" are pretty good as long as they're the steel ones. Plastic ones will melt off the gas block rails..


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## SmithEC

I'm a TROY fanboy, so that's always my answer.

The only thing I really have to say about that is maybe you'll want to hesitate to pay more for a sight simply because it's spring-loaded.

A lot of times the spring doesn't fully deploy the sight anyway. Just push the button on the side and pull the sights up yourself.

Plenty of folks make good sights.
.


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## TexasArmor84

Thanks was looking at the troys and diamond heads


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## jamisjockey

TexasArmor84 said:


> Thanks was looking at the troys and diamond heads


My buddy has a diamond head in my safe waiting on his barrel to finish his build. It's pretty sweet.


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## TexasArmor84

Oh good deal also debating FDE color or go stealth with all black I prefer stealth ha


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## MrG

TexasArmor84 said:


> Well guys I ended up getting a windham weoponry src it's a site ready model now can anyone give me info on what sites and accessories to buy, got it for $800 OTD Lifetime Warranty on it also
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Model: Caliber: Type: Action: Capacity Safety: Receiver: Receiver Material: Receiver Finish: Bolt Material: Barrel: Barrel Material: Rifling: Stock: Forend / Pistol Grip: Rear Sight: Front Sight: Packaging:
> R16M4FTT
> .223 Rem. / 5.56mm NATO
> Rifle
> Semi-Automatic, Gas Impingement System
> 30 + 1- Ships with one 30 Round Magazine (accepts all std. sizes) Manual Lever with Indicator Markings on Both Sides of Receiver M4A4 Type Flat Top Upper Receiver
> Forged 7075 T6 Aircraft Aluminum with Aluminum Trigger Guard Hardcoat Black Anodize Finish
> Carpenter 158 Steel - MP/HP Tested
> 16â€ M4 Profile, Chrome Lined with A2 Flash Suppressor
> 4150 Chrome Moly Vanadium 11595E Steel w. M4 Feed Ramps
> 1 Turn in 9â€ - Right Hand Twist
> 6 Position Telescoping Buttstock with Windham Weaponry Logo M4 Double Heat Shield Handguards / A2 Black Plastic Grip
> None - Ready for optics or other type accessory sights
> None - Picatinny Rail Gas Block - Ready for accessory sights
> Hard Plastic Gun Case with Black Web Sling & Operators Manual
> Windham Weaponry â€œSRCâ€
> Specifications: Windham Weaponry â€œSRCâ€ Weight: 6.30 Lbs. (without magazine)
> Length Overall: 36.125â€ (32.375â€ with Telestock collapsed)


I'm new to the AR game also. I was in our local Academy a few weeks ago and noticed they had the first AR I've seen there since January. I'd been considering buying one so I snatched it up on an impulse.

It is a Windham MRC with the standard AR sights. Had a Nikon P223 3X9 scope and riser mounted up at the gun shop and headed to the range. I've run about 500 rounds through it without a glitch. The trigger, as mentioned before, is a little stiffer than I'm used to with other rifles but I can consistently get -2" groups at 100yds and a few you could cover with a quarter.

I'm so tickled with it that when Academy got an SRC in last week I snatched that one up too. Back to the gun store and mounted a SIG-TAC CP1 3X with a green/red illuminated reticle. I put 40 rounds through it Wednesday and wasn't disappointed. I got the same -2" groups even with the 3X. I plan on this on being my "Barbie" gun, as the gun store guy calls them. Accessories, accessories.....where to start? I'm looking at this 



.


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## SmithEC

MrG said:


> ... I'm looking at this quad rail. ...


Some folks live by a rule that reads "Friends don't let friends buy UTG.".

.


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## TexasArmor84

Good deal mrG I haven't shot mine yet still buying accessories


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## MrG

SmithEC said:


> Some folks live by a rule that reads "Friends don't let friends buy UTG.".
> 
> .


Like I said, I'm new. Care to elaborate?


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## SmithEC

The perception is that UTG is cheap Chinese junk.

That quadrail is actually made in the U.S.A., so who knows?

Plenty of this stuff is purely personal.

I notice now that the rail in your link is sold from and shipped from OpticsPlanet. One thing about those guys is sometimes you really don't know whether they have it or not until you order.

I have my mail shipped to a box at The UPS Store. I ordered an ACOG (TA-11) from OpticsPlanet once. They recognized that my address is a box at UPS, so they wouldn't process the order until I contacted their Risk Management Team. This because an ACOG is ITAR restricted. I simply didn't respond. I did get on Larue's website and ordered from them like I should have done to begin with. Had the TA-11 the next day.

Purely personal, like I say. That incident created one more business I won't deal with.

Get you some of those Larue index clips for that quadrail. The edges on that rail are gonna' be sharp.

.


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## Bantam1

You also need to ask yourself if you have a need for a quad rail. They will add weight to your rifle. Its nice for a mounting a vertical grip and flashlight, but you can do that with a Magpul MOE for half the cost and weight.


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## spencey820

Just buy one they are all the same basically, just make sure it has a removable carrying handle so its easier to mount your optic. It's going to be a ford, chevy, dodge comparison. For what you need buy whatever is cheap stick a nice optic on it, you dont need to be tacticool with rails, peq 2's and flashlights...


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## dwilliams35

MrG said:


> I'm new to the AR game also. I was in our local Academy a few weeks ago and noticed they had the first AR I've seen there since January. I'd been considering buying one so I snatched it up on an impulse.
> 
> It is a Windham MRC with the standard AR sights. Had a Nikon P223 3X9 scope and riser mounted up at the gun shop and headed to the range. I've run about 500 rounds through it without a glitch. The trigger, as mentioned before, is a little stiffer than I'm used to with other rifles but I can consistently get -2" groups at 100yds and a few you could cover with a quarter.
> 
> I'm so tickled with it that when Academy got an SRC in last week I snatched that one up too. Back to the gun store and mounted a SIG-TAC CP1 3X with a green/red illuminated reticle. I put 40 rounds through it Wednesday and wasn't disappointed. I got the same -2" groups even with the 3X. I plan on this on being my "Barbie" gun, as the gun store guy calls them. Accessories, accessories.....where to start? I'm looking at this quad rail.


just leave the stock forearm on the gun and duct tape a couple of bricks to it. It will probably be lighter, and more useful, as you can just cut them off and throw them when you run out of ammo.

I'm just not at all a fan of hanging every bit of tacticool junk you can find all over the gun.. It hangs on stuff, bangs on your knees or back when you sling the rifle, adds weight in all the wrong places, and make the thing uncomfortable to use. Four rail forearms are the last thing I want to have to grip with a bare hand as well. My two cents.


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## SmithEC

I suppose it has to be said that we are a nation of "wants", not a nation of "needs".

Having said that, I'm not going to put something on an AR until I can figure out for myself why I might want it there.

I simply threw an optic on this one. The only thing I would remotely even consider adding is an AFG. That would be mounted right on the MOE handguard.

This is an awful handy AR without all that nonsense.










.


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## Bharvey

I've had a quad rail on mine for a while now and I'm considering removing it. These guys are right. The more **** you add on the more uncomfortable it is to use your gun. I've got an aluminum quad rail, a tac-light, BUIS, an EOTECH, and a pistol grip. I've been considering either getting the Magpul MOE handgaurd and just buying the polymer accessories to keep what I have on the gun OR purchasing a polymer quadrail to lighten the load a bit. The weight is killing me so I have to do something. I've thought of getting rid of the tac-light but I hunt w/out nightvision so that tac-light is very useful.


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## dwilliams35

Bharvey said:


> I've had a quad rail on mine for a while now and I'm considering removing it. These guys are right. The more **** you add on the more uncomfortable it is to use your gun. I've got an aluminum quad rail, a tac-light, BUIS, an EOTECH, and a pistol grip. I've been considering either getting the Magpul MOE handgaurd and just buying the polymer accessories to keep what I have on the gun OR purchasing a polymer quadrail to lighten the load a bit. The weight is killing me so I have to do something. I've thought of getting rid of the tac-light but I hunt w/out nightvision so that tac-light is very useful.


 So take it off.... You can put it back on in about ten seconds..

That's one of the big problems now with the whole "rail" thing: the basic concept was such that a soldier could quickly outfit the rifle to suit the task at hand: if it was designated marksman, put X optic on it. If they were into house-to-house clearing, put Y optic on it, they'd go right on and off with no significant loss of zero. Ditto lights, lasers, forward grips, etc. The point wasn't to get everything you can and leave it on the gun at all times, and as the concept has moved to the civilian market, too many people are now slapping this rail-mounted light or that rail-mounted sight on a gun, calling it a modification, and sitting back and marveling at their gunsmithing capability with their now essentially unusable eighteen-pound rifle...


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## jamisjockey

All the advice is purely subjective depending on what you're _really _going to do with the gun.
If you're going to run the gun, train with it, and use it for HD or as a duty weapon of some kind, you'll definitely start looking for ways to cut weight. 
If your gun is mostly a range queen, do whatever. Of course, a light and laser are pretty silly for shooting paper at a hundred yards from a bench. :doowapsta

Another option for the handguards is one of the customizable options. You select rail locations based off what you want on the gun and the rest of the guard is slick. 
Compare weights of accessories and of handguards, too.

The further down the barrel the weight is, the more you'll feel it.

Of course, on a 16" gun, it's all relative.



SmithEC said:


> I notice now that the rail in your link is sold from and shipped from OpticsPlanet. One thing about those guys is sometimes you really don't know whether they have it or not until you order.
> 
> .


I've cancelled two orders from them that were backordered, and then backordered, and then backordered. :hairout:


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## MrG

Thanks for the advice fellas.


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## randeg

*Windham SRC*



> Also what do you guys think of my decision on the windham


I bought the same rifle from a guy on 2cool. It was during the height of the frenzy. Paid more than I wanted to spend, but just didn't know what the future would hold.

I haven't had a single problem with mine. Although I have upgraded pretty much everything except for the lower. Also you should read the history of Windham, pretty neat story.

I didn't think too much of UTG either, but I looked at the quad rail that didn't require a gunsmith. It was only $70, so I bought it. It was as solid as a rock. Model 4/15.

If you are near Pearland, you should visit Primary Arms. The offer all kinds of upgrades in all price ranges. They are very friendly and helpful, and their website is updated in real time.

I bought Diamond Head flip sights and like them. SOG on BW8 carries them. Just make sure you tell them that your gas block is receiver height.

It is really a lot of fun tweaking, but it can get pricey.

Good luck.


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## TexasArmor84

Thanks randeg


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## TexasArmor84

I live south of pearland I'll check it out


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## jamisjockey

Primary rocks, and the guys in there are super helpful. Showroom is being expanded, too, along with a new will call pick up window.
Not that I ever go in there and spend money, though....
www.primaryarms.com


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## TexasArmor84

Good deal looking forward to getting some new upgrades


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## randeg

*UTG Stuff*



> The perception is that UTG is cheap Chinese junk.
> 
> That quadrail is actually made in the U.S.A., so who knows?
> 
> Plenty of this stuff is purely personal.
> 
> I notice now that the rail in your link is sold from and shipped from OpticsPlanet. One thing about those guys is sometimes you really don't know whether they have it or not until you order.
> 
> I have my mail shipped to a box at The UPS Store. I ordered an ACOG (TA-11) from OpticsPlanet once. They recognized that my address is a box at UPS, so they wouldn't process the order until I contacted their Risk Management Team. This because an ACOG is ITAR restricted. I simply didn't respond. I did get on Larue's website and ordered from them like I should have done to begin with. Had the TA-11 the next day.
> 
> Purely personal, like I say. That incident created one more business I won't deal with.
> 
> Get you some of those Larue index clips for that quadrail. The edges on that rail are gonna' be sharp.


I know that some of the UTG stuff is imported, but, me being on a limited budget, was looking for a quad rail. At one of the gun shows I came upon this and it fit my means. I was impressed with the fit and sturdiness of it.

I have since upgraded to the LaRue 10" free floating handguard. Light years difference, of course $$$. I am big on LaRue. I have LaRue mounts for all my toys.

I have always been a Trijicon wannabe. Last week, the combination of eBay, credit card and cocktails, I bought a 3-9X40 Accupoint from eurOoptics. Regretted it briefly. It arrived today and there are no more regrets. I can't wait to get to the range. If you can't tell, I am pumped!

It's all good advice and feedback here on 2cool. Proud to be a member, and I don't take that lightly.


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## randeg

*Primary Arms*



> Primary rocks, and the guys in there are super helpful. Showroom is being expanded, too, along with a new will call pick up window.
> Not that I ever go in there and spend money, though....


Me too, er...I meant either


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## Bharvey

dwilliams35 said:


> So take it off.... You can put it back on in about ten seconds..
> 
> That's one of the big problems now with the whole "rail" thing: the basic concept was such that a soldier could quickly outfit the rifle to suit the task at hand: if it was designated marksman, put X optic on it. If they were into house-to-house clearing, put Y optic on it, they'd go right on and off with no significant loss of zero. Ditto lights, lasers, forward grips, etc. The point wasn't to get everything you can and leave it on the gun at all times, and as the concept has moved to the civilian market, too many people are now slapping this rail-mounted light or that rail-mounted sight on a gun, calling it a modification, and sitting back and marveling at their gunsmithing capability with their now essentially unusable eighteen-pound rifle...


I will...don't rush me. lol Part of the problem is that I need to find a quick detachable mount for it as opposed from the one I have on there now. I have my light on there because I use it mostly for pig hunting at night. I shoot at the range every now and then but 90% of the time it gets used at night.


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## jamisjockey

Mostly there now. A few accessories, but it's certainly ready for a trip to the range to zero.


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## w_r_ranch

Ernest said:


> Barrel, trigger, ammo, free float, optics. Thats what makes an accurate AR. Focus on those issues, rather than "name brand" or roll mark.


^^^ This ^^^

And enough ammo to practice & 'become one with the gun'.


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## dwilliams35

w_r_ranch said:


> ^^^ This ^^^
> 
> And enough ammo to practice & 'become one with the gun'.


 Okay, so when are we going to do some shootin?


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## jamisjockey

dwilliams35 said:


> Okay, so when are we going to do some shootin?


Amen!

Once I get my new AR zeroed, I'd love somewhere to go stretch it out to 500-800 yards. Anyone got that kind of land and wouldn't mind? :bounce:


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