# strange kill



## BF (Jun 7, 2007)

While driving back to camp after the mourning hunt on friday; saw a dark body animal in one of our fields. I stoped the jeep looked at it thru binoculars; looked really funny to me but he had spikes; & i hate all spikes. Got out of the jeep & shot him at about 200 yrds. when i drove up on him i was not sure what i had shot--knew it was not a white tail deer but some sort of exotic. after alot of different opions it was a sika deer. we do not have a clue where it came from. feild dressed right at 175lbs. will post pics in the mourning.
oh by the way i hunt over by woodsburo on the welder ranch. may be some- body knows where it came from.


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## TimOub007 (Jun 10, 2005)

Good eating, much better than whitetail IMO. Sounds like a large one too.

T


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## wet dreams (May 21, 2004)

A 175lb spike Sika Hmmm, seen lots of grown full racked Sikas that weighed much less. WW


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## Redfishr (Jul 26, 2004)

Spike red stag maybe.....


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## Jtaylor (Apr 14, 2005)

Okay, I guess IM old fashioned, but what happened to knowing your target before you shoot? If you weren't absolutely sure of what it was, my opinion is that it was irresponsible to shoot it.


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## thebach (Apr 13, 2005)

Jtaylor said:


> Okay, I guess IM old fashioned, but what happened to knowing your target before you shoot? If you weren't absolutely sure of what it was, my opinion is that it was irresponsible to shoot it.


He shot a spike on his lease, where it is perfectly legal to shoot an exotic deer.

He did say it looked funny to him before he shot it. Not like he is shooting thru the brush at who knows what.

Good Kill !

Get a life !


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## Hard Head (May 21, 2004)

BF said:


> I stoped the jeep *looked at it thru binoculars; looked really funny to me but he had spikes;* & i hate all spikes. Got out of the jeep & shot him at about 200 yrds.


Sounds like proper identification to me.


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## Spec-Rig.006 (Nov 2, 2007)

Seriously ... the guy wasn't taking "sound shots" at "things" in the brush ... his target was identified as a spike ... which is a spike, last time I checked there were no endangered species of deer in Texas, or split seasons on exotics ...

You take a shot at a gray form in the fog and you might shot a man, you take a shot at a funny looking spike ... you shot a funny looking spike ...


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## Jtaylor (Apr 14, 2005)

"saw a dark body animal in one of our fields. I stoped the jeep looked at it thru binoculars; looked really funny to me but he had spikes; & i hate all spikes."

To me, it doesn't sound like a positive identification. Had he said he saw a dark whitetail spike, that would have been positive.


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## Jtaylor (Apr 14, 2005)

haha, and several of you are guessing as to what the animal is... so I would also think that you guys cant positively identify it either. Which brings me back to what I said earlier... I dont think you should shoot something unless you KNOW what it is. But thats my opinion.


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## bzrk180 (Jan 7, 2008)

Jtaylor said:


> Okay, I guess IM old fashioned, but what happened to knowing your target before you shoot? If you weren't absolutely sure of what it was, my opinion is that it was irresponsible to shoot it.


Ahhhhh, so easy to judge and play armchair quarterback. The epitome of an ethical hunter are ya?

An animal, a spike of somekind, on his lease, even had an idea it was some kind of deer... Some people simply *search *for reasons to be critical!


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## Jtaylor (Apr 14, 2005)

Nope. I just dont believe in killing... just for the sake of killing. And if you dont POSITIVELY know your target, thats about all you are doing.


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## Jtaylor (Apr 14, 2005)

And to reply further, yes, I do strive to be ethical. We all should be, if we enjoy our sport so that the anti's can't take i away from us.


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## Kyle 1974 (May 10, 2006)

this is exactly why I stopped shooting deer until I get ALL of their legal information... name, address (you never know if it's a neighbor's deer) SS#, etc. You can't be too careful when it comes to shooting deer at your feeder... on your lease.... during deer season.....


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## TOM GRAHAM (Mar 15, 2006)

Dark, Funny Looking Spike At 200 Yds. Yeah, That's Good I.d. I Hope The Rancher Did Not Have Any Cows In That Pasture.


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## State_Vet (Oct 10, 2006)

Kyle 1974 said:


> this is exactly why I stopped shooting deer until I get ALL of their legal information... name, address (you never know if it's a neighbor's deer) SS#, etc. You can't be too careful when it comes to shooting deer at your feeder... on your lease.... during deer season.....


I always "dart" mine and take a DNA sample and run a "match" just to be sure, I also compare their hoove prints against my database to see if they match.......


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## bzrk180 (Jan 7, 2008)

Jtaylor said:


> And to reply further, yes, I do strive to be ethical. We all should be, if we enjoy our sport so that the anti's can't take i away from us.


And apparently we all have differnet views of "ethics" and "integrity." Just because someones doesnt align with yours does not make them *wrong*. Thats judgemnet, being critical and thinking your way is the only way.

And with this statement...

"so that the anti's can't take i away from us"

What did this hunter do in respect to this that would allow this to happen. Again, just because you see it a certain way doesnt mean it the "right" way.


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## bzrk180 (Jan 7, 2008)

Jtaylor said:


> Nope. I just dont believe in killing... just for the sake of killing. And if you dont POSITIVELY know your target, thats about all you are doing.


Wow...an opinion. You know what they say about opinions . But, that is what forums are for I guess! LOL!!


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## BF (Jun 7, 2007)

been on this lease for over 12 yrs & i knew this was some type of deer. he was not going to stand around all day for a postive i.d. I am not sure of the closest high fence but i think any body would have shot this deer. *labdog i do know what a cow looks like only been around cows all my life*


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## Kyle 1974 (May 10, 2006)

BF said:


> been on this lease for over 12 yrs & i knew this was some type of deer. he was not going to stand around all day for a postive i.d. I am not sure of the closest high fence but i think any body would have shot this deer. *labdog i do know what a cow looks like only been around cows all my life*


BF,

I understand that in the heat of the moment, people are tempted to do things they might not ordinarilly do... but how did you know this wasn't a chupacabra, or even a black pather?!?!?! This could have been a disaster!


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## stxhunter (May 19, 2006)

OK OK, besides the argument thats going on right now! How dark is the animal? Were is the lease located? Could it have been a nilgai?


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## sotol buster (Oct 7, 2007)

watch out Bevo!!! just piling on, but WE would like to see the picture, please.


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## Lezz Go (Jun 27, 2006)

*I Know What it is!*

It was obviously a young pot bellied mattress thrasher...... spike.


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## CAJUN THUNDER (Sep 6, 2006)

where's the picture's??


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## bzrk180 (Jan 7, 2008)

CAJUN THUNDER said:


> where's the picture's??


look under the "sika" post


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## BF (Jun 7, 2007)

heres pics


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## stxhunter (May 19, 2006)

O, guess no nilgai! That dude weighed 175 lbs?


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## Jtaylor (Apr 14, 2005)

Sorry, but I just cant justify killing something I cant fully identify. I wonder what would have happened had it been a spike Mule deer? He would have shot it, of course. It doesn't matter if mule deer arent supposed to be there. And he would have killed it VERY illegally. As he said, he knew it was SOME kind of deer. As far as I know, the season was only open for whitetail and exotics. IT COULD HAVE been a mulie. Good thing it wasn't.


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## State_Vet (Oct 10, 2006)

Jtaylor said:


> Sorry, but I just cant justify killing something I cant fully identify. I wonder what would have happened had it been a spike Mule deer? He would have shot it, of course. It doesn't matter if mule deer arent supposed to be there. And he would have killed it VERY illegally. As he said, he knew it was SOME kind of deer. As far as I know, the season was only open for whitetail and exotics. IT COULD HAVE been a mulie. Good thing it wasn't.


Could have been a giraffe too, but wait those would be considered an exotic

I can't wait for you to post up a hunting story so we can pick it apart.


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## osobrujo (Jan 13, 2005)

That's A Lookup Deer!!! Last I Heard There Was Only One Pair Left In The World!!!


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## bigfishtx (Jul 17, 2007)

Jtaylor said:


> Sorry, but I just cant justify killing something I cant fully identify. I wonder what would have happened had it been a spike Mule deer? He would have shot it, of course. It doesn't matter if mule deer arent supposed to be there. And he would have killed it VERY illegally. As he said, he knew it was SOME kind of deer. As far as I know, the season was only open for whitetail and exotics. IT COULD HAVE been a mulie. Good thing it wasn't.


Last time I looked, there were not too many Mule Deer in Refugio county.

How many have you seen in South Texas?


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## Freshwaterman (May 21, 2004)

I worked on the Welder Airs Ranch in Refugio County and always heard stories of how good the hunting was for monster Whitetail dear down in Woodsboro. I have seen some of the racks that the Welders took off of the Roach Place. I am very jelouse that you have that lease. I have also heard that the quail hunting is great down there. As for the above fray, that deer sure looks like a sika deer to me.


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## Jtaylor (Apr 14, 2005)

Not sure that justifies the shooting of "Any type of deer that you see". At least not in my book.


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## State_Vet (Oct 10, 2006)

Jtaylor said:


> Not sure that justifies the shooting of "Any type of deer that you see". At least not in my book.


http://2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/showthread.php?t=114593
_Each gun is allowed 1 mature buck (4 1/2 and older), *all the spikes you see*, and we will divide the doe harvest between the hunters. TPWD will tell us in October how many does we are allowed to harvest._
Now this is your post, and it says "all the spikes you see" not all the whitetail spikes you positively identify without a doubt, also taking into consideration that there could be a spike mule deer that somehow traveled well outside its normal range. Hmmmm interesting&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..


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## indybill (Nov 9, 2007)

*deer*

Saw a spiked horn doe one time in New Mexico. Sure looked strange to me.

Guy shot it in Pecos county.


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## BF (Jun 7, 2007)

Jtaylor not really sure who left you in charge of what is right or wrong--but when i saw that deer i thought i was looking at one goofy spike which it is legal to kill last time i looked--i have a mule deer lease out in the glass mountains so i know what mule deer look like; but serious it was not intill i drove up on it when i relized it was not a whitetail but something else-- no body on our lease nor did our biologist have a problem with it so get over it ----hell we even called a couple of gamewardens in our area they did not have a problem in what i had done


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## Spec-Rig.006 (Nov 2, 2007)

BF ... who is your biologist ... ? PM me ...


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## Jtaylor (Apr 14, 2005)

Haha Mr Vet, in my post, I was referring to whitetail spikes.... which is clarified in my contract on my lease.


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## Jtaylor (Apr 14, 2005)

But still, you cant just shoot things and determine later what they are. And no way can you make me believe that it ethical, legal, or responsible. And I am not judging you. I would prefer that you learn and make better judgement next time.


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## Jtaylor (Apr 14, 2005)

I dont have a problem with the animal that you shot.. and hopefully you will eat the meat. I only had a problem with the shooting of something that you didn't know positively what you were shooting at.


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## BF (Jun 7, 2007)

Jtaylor you can count on me eating the meat hell thats what is for dinner tonight------
better yet why dont you come over tonight for dinner than you & i can discuss this matter a little


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## Jtaylor (Apr 14, 2005)

I will discuss all you want. As long as you are chicken frying or grilling.


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## willydavenport (Jun 4, 2004)

Jtaylor said:


> I will discuss all you want.


I bet you would! That was your 11th post on the the topic. LOL!!!

This is the funniest thread I've read in a while. BF, I don't know why someone cares so much about the circumstances around what you shot but congratulations on the mystery kill. I hope it eats well.


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## State_Vet (Oct 10, 2006)

Jtaylor said:


> Haha Mr Vet, in my post, I was referring to whitetail spikes.... which is clarified in my contract on my lease.


So what your saying is that I was making an assumption without having all the information, or without actually being on your lease or seeing your contract? Not very fun when someone does it to you is it?


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## Jtaylor (Apr 14, 2005)

He admitted that he didn't know what it was (see below). And I dont care what you guys think. If you think its okay to shoot things that you are unsure of, thats your problem. I just believe that us hunters as a group should do better.


saw a dark body animal in one of our fields. I stoped the jeep looked at it thru binoculars; looked really funny to me but he had spikes; & i hate all spikes. Got out of the jeep & shot him at about 200 yrds. when i drove up on him i was not sure what i had shot


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## willydavenport (Jun 4, 2004)

So I'm guessing that before you pull the trigger on a buck you make sure to get a good look between its legs so that you can be 100% sure of your target??? You never know, you could be looking at an antlered doe and we all know that you sure don't want to be shooting at something unless you're absolutely, 100% certain of what it is...


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## Jtaylor (Apr 14, 2005)

in Texas an antelered doe is legally (by TPWD definition) a buck. You may legally use a buck tag on her. So given this, I would think that it would be useless to look between the legs.

And likewise, a male deer that has shed its horns, by definition an antlerless deer and MUST be tagged as one. I shot a doe on new years eve a few years back, and when I got to her, I realized it was a male deer that had already shed. I was sick about it and called the 800 number to TPWD to make sure how to tag.


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## swtmike (Jul 20, 2005)

Would it have been better if he said, 

"saw a dark body animal in one of our fields. I stoped the jeep looked at it thru binoculars; looked like an exotic with spikes. Got out of the jeep & shot him at about 200 yrds. when i drove up on him i was not sure what he was; would you help me identify him?"

That's basically the same thing, and that's how 70% of the exotic threads have been posted on the forum, but I haven't heard quite the fuss over those.


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## Jtaylor (Apr 14, 2005)

Swtmike, yes, that would have been better. At least it gives the impression that he has identified what he is shooting at.


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## bbridges (May 21, 2004)

Wow....splitting hairs a bit. I am quite sure heknew it was a "deer" of some sort before he shot. Give it a rest.


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## shauntexex (Dec 12, 2007)

bbridges said:


> Wow....splitting hairs a bit. I am quite sure heknew it was a "deer" of some sort before he shot. Give it a rest.


Ditto... Give it a rest


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## Team Binnion (Jun 3, 2004)

*Sure he can*



Jtaylor said:


> But still, you cant just shoot things and determine later what they are.


Sure he can, havent you seen the pictures????? There is nothing wrong with what he did, he identified it as some type of Deer, and a Spike, that is all he needed to do, after that it does not matter what type of deer it is.


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## swtmike (Jul 20, 2005)

I don't know where this is going but I see Taylors point of view. I think the point Taylor was trying to get accross, is that if BF was able to idenify it clearly as a spike he should have been able to identify that it was not a whitetail but an exotic of sort prior to taking the shot. 

BF, no offense on your kill, congrats, I don't think any differently about it. Just trying to clear up this matter.


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## BF (Jun 7, 2007)

guys i take no offense to any of this I thought i was looking at a weird spike & yes i hate spikes it was when i drove up on him is when i was not sure of what i had killed other than some sort of exotic. I have enjoyed all this what a way to make a crappy day go by. i guess on my orginal post should have worded it better.


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## activescrape (Jan 8, 2006)

So what did we decide it is?


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## Hard Head (May 21, 2004)

I hunt Real County where there's many species of exotics roaming freely. 3 weeks ago I had the pleasure of filming 2 Sika does, 3 sub species of Sike does, 2 whitetail does and 3 Axis does all eating together. Out of the corner of my eye I see movement and see 2 more Sika does under the feeder. They are nervous so I grab my rifle to be ready. Out walks a 14" tall Chocolate colored Sika 3x3 Buck. In 9 years of hunting there I've seen many does but no Bucks, so I drop him in his tracks. As soon as I reloaded out pops another Buck from the exact same spot as the first. I see tall spikes and zero in for the kill and drop him less than 30 seconds from the first kill. I had NO clue as to what the 2nd animal was, only that it was a Spike and we Hate Spikes on the property. Turns out it was a sub species Sika. Tan in color almost like a whitetail, but the same head as the 1st Sika. He must have been the dominent Buck/Stag to the does I mentioned earlier, same color. 

So here we go again, I didn't know what I was shooting but knew it was a deer species. Fire away! 

By the way, both are in my freezer and both eat well, almost as good as Axis and far better than any Whitetail I've EVER eaten.


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## dennis_99 (Feb 27, 2006)

Jtaylor said:


> I shot a doe on new years eve a few years back, and when I got to her, I realized it was a male deer that had already shed.


So you have shot at something you were absolutely sure about, killed it and you ended up being wrong about what you had shot? Is that why you are being so hard on BF?


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## Team Binnion (Jun 3, 2004)

*Dead*



activescrape said:


> So what did we decide it is?


DEAD!


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## Jtaylor (Apr 14, 2005)

Team Binnion said:


> DEAD!


And Dinner.


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## Jtaylor (Apr 14, 2005)

dennis_99 said:


> So you have shot at something you were absolutely sure about, killed it and you ended up being wrong about what you had shot? Is that why you are being so hard on BF?


I was sure it was an anterless deer. And I tagged it as such.


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## dennis_99 (Feb 27, 2006)

"I shot a *doe* on new years eve a few years back, and when I got to *her* I realized it was a *male* deer that had already shed"

Sounds to me like you thought you shot a doe, but actually shot a male deer, antLerless or not...


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## Jtaylor (Apr 14, 2005)

dennis_99 said:


> "I shot a *doe* on new years eve a few years back, and when I got to *her* I realized it was a *male* deer that had already shed"
> 
> Sounds to me like you thought you shot a doe, but actually shot a male deer, antLerless or not...


Dennis, have you read the definition of doe and buck deer as described by TPWD? Im thinking not.. based on your statements.


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## swtmike (Jul 20, 2005)

Antlerless or not, that's the way it is supposed to be tagged, just as he did identify. I knew this was going no where fast.


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## sotol buster (Oct 7, 2007)

An imuture moose?


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## dennis_99 (Feb 27, 2006)

Just going by what you wrote JTaylor...


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## Jtaylor (Apr 14, 2005)

Haha. If you say so Dennis.


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## dennis_99 (Feb 27, 2006)

Simply stated, you thought you shot a doe, but it was a male deer. You stated yourself that you felt bad for your mistake and called TPWD to make sure you tagged it correctly and did things right, so don't go passing judgment...

I don't have a dog in this fight, but I thought it was funny that you are inconsistant as well... LOL


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## JLC72 (Nov 7, 2006)

I'm out of popcorn.. Anyone got any I can borrow??


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## daddyeaux (Nov 18, 2007)

That does look like a Sika, just a very young one. When grown they have antlers similar to an Axis deer. Loans JLC my supersize bucket of Orvell Reddenbacher butterlovers....


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## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

Okay, lol...it's dead, it's a spike, it's going to be eaten, bf gets a T-shirt that says "I saw it, I shot it, It's dead."

Mr. Taylor wins the "let's be critical of how sentences are structured" contest for the year.

TH


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