# Bland family to sue DPS Trooper......



## carryyourbooks (Feb 13, 2009)

They have $$$ to sue, but not $500 to bail her out!:headknock

http://time.com/3983610/sandra-bland-lawsuit-texas/#3983610/sandra-bland-lawsuit-texas/


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## cubera (Mar 9, 2005)

Yep, another white buffalo hunt.


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## ralph7 (Apr 28, 2009)

Is anyone surprised?


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## Gemini8 (Jun 29, 2013)

They don't have to have money to sue. I'm sure there is a greedy, dirty attorney foaming at the mouth to take the case on. There was no money in it for family to bail her out. However, they feel there will be money in her death & probably will be. That's the screwed up world we live in.


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## V-Bottom (Jun 16, 2007)

To be expected isn't it..


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## POC Fishin' Gal (Nov 20, 2009)

I don't understand that family. On the news they are well dressed,composed and pretty well spoken. Something odd hereâ€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦...


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## duckmania (Jun 3, 2014)

Gemini8 said:


> They don't have to have money to sue. I'm sure there is a greedy, dirty attorney foaming at the mouth to take the case on. There was no money in it for family to bail her out. However, they feel there will be money in her death & probably will be. That's the screwed up world we live in.


Probably looking for a quick settlement. Probably get it too. It is a screwed up world.


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## bigbarr (Mar 9, 2010)

They won't have to pay a dime,,, I would imagine they are funded...


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## Gemini8 (Jun 29, 2013)

POC Fishin' Gal said:


> I don't understand that family. On the news they are well dressed,composed and pretty well spoken. Something odd hereâ€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦...


No odd - just greedy & looking for "justice" to be served.


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## artys_only (Mar 29, 2005)

Maybe she was wrongfully arrested she is the the one that hung herself , she had mental issues , IE self cut marks on her arm ? Family is just looking for a payday !


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## Pivo and kolache (Mar 13, 2014)

And when the not guilty verdict is reached there will be the usual rioting and looting....


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## carryyourbooks (Feb 13, 2009)

POC Fishin' Gal said:


> I don't understand that family. On the news they are well dressed,composed and pretty well spoken. Something odd hereâ€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦...


I'm sure they and SLJ can bring the hood phonics on the spot!


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## jesco (Jun 23, 2013)

Nothing says love like treating a family members death like a financial windfall. Some people... Family like that might explain her depression and mental issues. When it comes time to award $$$ I hope the jury takes into account the fact that Sandra Bland was not worth 500 bucks to this family when she was alive and needed help.


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## Missin'Link (Oct 17, 2008)

jesco said:


> Nothing says love like treating a family members death like a financial windfall. Some people... Family like that might explain her depression and mental issues. When it comes time to award $$$ I hope the jury takes into account the fact that Sandra Bland was not worth 500 bucks to this family when she was alive and needed help.


Your last sentence is spot on. Green sent!


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## Gemini8 (Jun 29, 2013)

jesco said:


> Nothing says love like treating a family members death like a financial windfall. Some people... Family like that might explain her depression and mental issues. When it comes time to award $$$ I hope the jury takes into account the fact that Sandra Bland was not worth 500 bucks to this family when she was alive and needed help.


Well said


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## FishRisk (Jan 24, 2012)

ralph7 said:


> Is anyone surprised?


Uh, no.


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## sotexhookset (Jun 4, 2011)

Didn't even wait til they buried her. Classy.


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## Pocketfisherman (May 30, 2005)

Glad it is happening. Municipalities and City governments will only stop accepting behavior like that officer exhibited when it starts hitting their pocketbooks.


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## jesco (Jun 23, 2013)

POC Fishin' Gal said:


> I don't understand that family. On the news they are well dressed,composed and pretty well spoken. Something odd hereâ€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦...


Lipstick on a pig...


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## Gemini8 (Jun 29, 2013)

Pocketfisherman said:


> Glad it is happening. Municipalities and City governments will only stop accepting behavior like that officer exhibited when it starts hitting their pocketbooks.


Seriously???? No matter what the officer may or may not have done, the family LEFT her in jail. If they had simply paid the $500 bail, she "might" still be alive. Who knows what her mentality would have been out of jail, but her family never even gave her a chance to find that out.


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## bigfishtx (Jul 17, 2007)

There are very limited circumstances where you can sue the State of Texas. Texas is self insured, the AG will defend it, and there will be no easy settlement for any substantial amount of money.


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## going_deep (Apr 13, 2014)

Pocketfisherman said:


> Glad it is happening. Municipalities and City governments will only stop accepting behavior like that officer exhibited when it starts hitting their pocketbooks.


Mr. Bland? Is that you?


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## Pocketfisherman (May 30, 2005)

Gemini8 said:


> Seriously???? No matter what the officer may or may not have done, the family LEFT her in jail. If they had simply paid the $500 bail, she "might" still be alive. Who knows what her mentality would have been out of jail, but her family never even gave her a chance to find that out.


if the officer had been a professional, she likely would not have ended up in Jail to begin with.


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## FishRisk (Jan 24, 2012)

bigfishtx said:


> There are very limited circumstances where you can sue the State of Texas. Texas is self insured, the AG will defend it, and there will be no easy settlement for any substantial amount of money.


Come on, it's a shake down, they'll get what's owed them. Ever see these cars that on the rear windows say, 'in loving memory'?

Money can't replace people.


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## FishRisk (Jan 24, 2012)

Pocketfisherman said:


> if the officer had been a professional, she likely would not have ended up in Jail to begin with.


You are right...

Let's see, what was it....'I'm going to light you up'!


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## fishguru00 (Aug 10, 2011)

Pocketfisherman said:


> if the officer had been a professional, she likely would not have ended up in Jail to begin with.


She was quite familiar with jail.


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## Gemini8 (Jun 29, 2013)

Pocketfisherman said:


> if the officer had been a professional, she likely would not have ended up in Jail to begin with.


Maybe, maybe not. Question still remains - WHY did her family LEAVE her in jail, especially knowing her history of depression?!?!? Most people would view that as POS family.


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## sotexhookset (Jun 4, 2011)

going_deep said:


> Mr. Bland? Is that you?


Can't be. This isn't a carp fishing forum.


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## Pocketfisherman (May 30, 2005)

fishguru00 said:


> She was quite familiar with jail.


That has zero to do with the officer's behavior during her last arrest, and also would not likely be allowed as testimony or evidence in a suit.


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## going_deep (Apr 13, 2014)

sotexhookset said:


> Can't be. This isn't a carp fishing forum.


There are quote a few alligator gar posts though......gar balls anyone?


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## MB (Mar 6, 2006)

carryyourbooks said:


> They have $$$ to sue, but not $500 to bail her out!:headknock
> 
> http://time.com/3983610/sandra-bland-lawsuit-texas/#3983610/sandra-bland-lawsuit-texas/


They didn't have $500.00 to bail her out ???

She wasn't worth $500.00 ??

How sad .. 

If that's the case her family has a lot of guilt.

*MB*


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

fishguru00 said:


> She was quite familiar with jail.


so?


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## txbred (May 13, 2013)

They should sue obama for emboldening her with that attitute of hers, and most like her.

For me, its "yes, sir. No, sir." Then I go on my way.


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## pocjetty (Sep 12, 2014)

You guys are so wrong. It's all about justice. Sometimes you get justice by looting a pharmacy, and sometimes you get it by suing a police department. Justice is cool that way.


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## Pivo and kolache (Mar 13, 2014)

pocjetty said:


> You guys are so wrong. It's all about justice. Sometimes you get justice by looting a pharmacy, and sometimes you get it by suing a police department. Justice is cool that way.


My cabbage dispenser is on the blink, says I must spread.....


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## fishin shallow (Jul 31, 2005)

I got him for you


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## bighank (Feb 28, 2011)

At least in jail she could not hurt anybody else!


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## essayons75 (May 15, 2006)

Pivo and kolache said:


> And when the not guilty verdict is reached there will be the usual rioting and looting....


I don't think they have the courage to do that in Texas. QX blew the last one, probably on purpose.


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## TxDuSlayer (Jun 24, 2006)

Pocketfisherman said:


> Glad it is happening. Municipalities and City governments will only stop accepting behavior like that officer exhibited when it starts hitting their pocketbooks.


That Troop did nothing wrong except his job!!! Ms Bland thought she would take over his scene and decide how chit was gonna run. Except that Texas State Trooper did not let her take control. He made a lawful arrest transported to the Waller County jail. What happened after that is on the jailers and Waller County Sheriff's Office.


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## Pocketfisherman (May 30, 2005)

TxDuSlayer said:


> That Troop did nothing wrong except his job!!! Ms Bland thought she would take over his scene and decide how chit was gonna run. Except that Texas State Trooper did not let her take control. He made a lawful arrest transported to the Waller County jail. What happened after that is on the jailers and Waller County Sheriff's Office.


We will see....when the internal investigation is finished I am betting he resigns because he was highly encouraged to do so. But again, we will see if his boss thought that :I will light you up" for not putting out a cigarette was part of the job when they finish their investigation.


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## Charlie Brown (May 17, 2007)

Pocketfisherman said:


> We will see....when the internal investigation is finished I am betting he resigns because he was highly encouraged to do so. But again, we will see if his boss thought that :I will light you up" for not putting out a cigarette was part of the job when they finish their investigation.


If she would have been respectful and said Yes sir and no sir. She is alive and only would have only received a warning. She deserved to go to jail. She didn't deserve to die over this but from what I know she did that not the trooper.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Forty (May 7, 2013)

The trooper wrote a warning to the previous motorist and let em go. She turned out of a parking lot without signaling in sight of a state trooper's car and then illegally changed lanes when he got behind her, and he still intended to write her a warning. She did something that got his attention when he was still on the passenger side of her vehicle and again when he was going to give her the warning. Something was wrong with her and I'm glad he didn't let her drive off and maybe kill an innocent person had she decided to off herself with a motor vehicle.


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## pocjetty (Sep 12, 2014)

I posted this in the Jungle, but I'll put the short version here:

This woman got a simple ticket, and tried to play the same discrimination card as all the others. She made a bunch of claims, and demanded that action be taken against the officer. She got national coverage, and even talked to her Senator about it. This was a line from her public statement: "It is easy to connect the dots with the nationwide racial profiling which has led to serious consequences."

Now she's been charged with filing a false police report, because the video showed that NOTHING she said was true. 
http://foxct.com/2015/07/31/dash-cam-audio-released-after-professor-charged-with-falsely-claiming-racial-profiling-during-traffic-stop/

It has become almost comically easy to bring one of these charges, and if there hadn't been video of this one, there would probably be another lawsuit.


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## jesco (Jun 23, 2013)

pocjetty said:


> I posted this in the Jungle, but I'll put the short version here:
> 
> This woman got a simple ticket, and tried to play the same discrimination card as all the others. She made a bunch of claims, and demanded that action be taken against the officer. She got national coverage, and even talked to her Senator about it. This was a line from her public statement: "It is easy to connect the dots with the nationwide racial profiling which has led to serious consequences."
> 
> ...


Not to hijack, but I read that too. I like the fact that she will be prosecuted for her lies. Hope the cop sues her for slander. She's a college professor!


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## pocjetty (Sep 12, 2014)

jesco said:


> Not to hijack, but I read that too. I like the fact that she will be prosecuted for her lies. Hope the cop sues her for slander. She's a college professor!


I posted it because of the similarities to the Bland stop. The difference is the professor didn't freak out at the scene. She waited until later to claim that she was profiled.

And, yeah, I hope there is some turn-around and the cop wins a slander suit against her.


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## Stalkin Spots (Jan 12, 2014)

Pocketfisherman said:


> We will see....when the internal investigation is finished I am betting he resigns because he was highly encouraged to do so. But again, we will see if his boss thought that :I will light you up" for not putting out a cigarette was part of the job when they finish their investigation.


He wasn't going to "light her up" for not putting out her cigarette. She was non-compliant and confrontational. That is why he was going to light her up. The common thread in all of these incidents is lack of respect for the law enforcement officer that escalated the situation. Simple compliance with his requests would have had her down the road in 10 minutes. The rest, unfortunately, is on her.


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## Gemini8 (Jun 29, 2013)

Stalkin Spots said:


> He wasn't going to "light her up" for not putting out her cigarette. She was non-compliant and confrontational. That is why he was going to light her up. *The common thread in all of these incidents is lack of respect for the law enforcement officer that escalated the situation.* Simple compliance with his requests would have had her down the road in 10 minutes. The rest, unfortunately, is on her.


This seems to be SOP in today's society. Unfortunately people have lost respect for any sort of authority, no matter the situation and instead want to buck up to them. People are self-centered, selfish & pretty much don't give a care about anything but themselves. These are the very people who want to blame everyone else for the situations that they find themselves in. Then when the consequences result in someone's life being lost, here come the greedy relatives with their hands out demanding justice via monetary payment, once again perpetuating the blame game.


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## ralph7 (Apr 28, 2009)

MB said:


> They didn't have $500.00 to bail her out ???
> 
> She wasn't worth $500.00 ??
> 
> ...


Money will make that guilt vanish.


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## spotsndots (May 20, 2005)

TxDuSlayer said:


> That Troop did nothing wrong except his job!!! Ms Bland thought she would take over his scene and decide how chit was gonna run. Except that Texas State Trooper did not let her take control. He made a lawful arrest transported to the Waller County jail. What happened after that is on the jailers and Waller County Sheriff's Office.


x 2.


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## el dorado (Jul 26, 2010)

Pocketfisherman said:


> Glad it is happening. Municipalities and City governments will only stop accepting behavior like that officer exhibited when it starts hitting their pocketbooks.


Suicide is a personal choice. Blaming it on someone else is lazy and irresponsible.


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## dbarham (Aug 13, 2005)

Charlie Brown said:


> If she would have been respectful and said Yes sir and no sir. She is alive and only would have only received a warning. She deserved to go to jail. She didn't deserve to die over this but from what I know she did that not the trooper.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yep that's how I was brought up with respect especially for the leo


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## chumy (Jul 13, 2012)

Pocketfisherman said:


> We will see....when the internal investigation is finished I am betting he resigns because he was highly encouraged to do so. But again, we will see if his boss thought that :I will light you up" for not putting out a cigarette was part of the job when they finish their investigation.


it's funny how people just focus on the cigarette part of it. Show a little respect and you can smoke till your lungs fill up during your next traffic stop.


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## Jamaica Cove (Apr 2, 2008)

She got what she wanted-she wanted to kill herself and did. I'd throw her family's suit out if I were the Judge-just a money grab by a POS family that wouldn't even pay her $500 bail-fark em.


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## Pocketfisherman (May 30, 2005)

el dorado said:


> Suicide is a personal choice. Blaming it on someone else is lazy and irresponsible.


No argument from me on that point. However the suit will focus on the arrest being unlawful and on probable cause to have her exit the car which is not the norm for a traffic stop in TX. The state will have to demonstrate why she was forced to do so and the officer's reasoning to take it to that level. Lack of respect shown to an officer is not probable cause.


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## el dorado (Jul 26, 2010)

Pocketfisherman said:


> No argument from me on that point. However the suit will focus on the arrest being unlawful *and on probable cause to have her exit the car which is not the norm for a traffic stop in TX.* The state will have to demonstrate why she was forced to do so and the officer's reasoning to take it to that level. Lack of respect shown to an officer is not probable cause.


The point you are missing is that probable cause is not needed. Pennsylvania v. Mimms is SCOTUS case law, holding that a police officer ordering a person out of a vehicle is not a 4th amendment violation. Cops do it every day.


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## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

Due to circumstances I won't go into, I feel qualified to post on this thread. My thought is that the family knew she was suicidal, but expected the jail to prevent it. The family can't bring themselves to see the truth. ("You can't handle the truth!") 

There are 2 sides to this coin, like there always is.

One, the trooper may have violated a DPS policy or 2, but didn't break laws or do anything seriously wrong.

Two, Sandra Bland had mental issues, serious ones.

Number 1 did not cause number 2. They are different and unrelated issues. The family is going to have to come to grips with this, and it may take many years. The family will never forget it, but they must accept the facts. The truth is: Sandra killed herself.


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## Steven H (Jan 15, 2006)

*The truth is: Sandra killed herself.*

This is what they cannot grasp. But this case is a money grab and most likely they will get new Cadillac money at least left over after the attorney buys himself some new suits and bow ties.

I hope the defense is able to query what we keep referring to, why did the let her sit in jail and not bail her out for $500, but now shes worth hundreds of thousands. They spring her Saturday, she is not there Sunday, and maybe she commits suicide at her own house, then where would that leave them?

Also, why no outcry over the guy in TN ( I think) that was on bail for bank robbery that killed the white cop and turned himself in over the weekend. Where is all the publicity over that? Surprised the media has not found a way to twist that one in some way to make the perp the victim.


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## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

Many people here try to blame the family for not bailing her out. The family may have thought jail was the safest place for her. We are told they take your belt, shoe strings etc., which may or may not be true.

The same way Sandra's death is not the fault of the DPS trooper, we should not blame the family. My guess is that the family is blaming themselves now, and don't know how to deal with it.


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## Hullahopper (May 24, 2004)

txbred said:


> They should sue obama for emboldening her with that attitute of hers, and most like her.
> 
> For me, its "yes, sir. No, sir." Then I go on my way.


Winner! Winner!


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## Pocketfisherman (May 30, 2005)

Forty said:


> The trooper wrote a warning to the previous motorist and let em go. She turned out of a parking lot without signaling in sight of a state trooper's car and then illegally changed lanes when he got behind her, and he still intended to write her a warning. She did something that got his attention when he was still on the passenger side of her vehicle and again when he was going to give her the warning. Something was wrong with her and I'm glad he didn't let her drive off and maybe kill an innocent person had she decided to off herself with a motor vehicle.


That is all not pertinent to the suit, or the issues. What was the probable cause to make the officer ask her to step out of the car? A traffic violation is not probable cause, none of what you posted above is probable cause. Maybe when the investigation is complete, something else will come to light that was, but from the officers body-cam, nothing other than her being a jerk to him looks to be the reason. Being a smart *** to an officer is not probable cause and has been proven many times in court. The officer lost his cool, acted unprofessionally, and when the internal investigation is finished I bet the findings are he also violated DPS policy and procedures.


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## Pocketfisherman (May 30, 2005)

Whitebassfisher said:


> Many people here try to blame the family for not bailing her out. The family may have thought jail was the safest place for her. We are told they take your belt, shoe strings etc., which may or may not be true.
> 
> The same way Sandra's death is not the fault of the DPS trooper, we should not blame the family. My guess is that the family is blaming themselves now, and don't know how to deal with it.


Her death is not the fault of the trooper....agreed. But if the suit proves the arrest was unjust in the first place, then the troopers actions were a contributing factor in that death as (if this is proven in court) she would not have ended up in jail to begin with.


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## Pocketfisherman (May 30, 2005)

Charlie Brown said:


> If she would have been respectful and said Yes sir and no sir. She is alive and only would have only received a warning. She deserved to go to jail. She didn't deserve to die over this but from what I know she did that not the trooper.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


A person deserves to go to jail because an officer thinks you are a smart ***? Policy, procedure, and legal precedent be damned!? Welcome to the fascist state of TX.


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## MEGABITE (May 21, 2004)

Hopefully the jail workers sue the family for claiming she was murdered in jail.


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## Pocketfisherman (May 30, 2005)

MEGABITE said:


> Hopefully the jail workers sue the family for claiming she was murdered in jail.


They would have to first demonstrate that they suffered damages as a result of what happened. If they lost their jobs, had a pay cut, or something similar they would likely have a case.


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## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

Pocketfisherman said:


> Her death is not the fault of the trooper....agreed. But if the suit proves the arrest was unjust in the first place, then the troopers actions were a contributing factor in that death as (if this is proven in court) she would not have ended up in jail to begin with.


Can you honestly say that any reasonable person working as a cop would think "If I tell her to put out her cigarette and exit the car she will hang herself in jail with a plastic bag, so I better treat her with kid gloves" ?

IMO, the cop did not contribute to her death in any way. The cop may have broken some DPS policy, I honestly don't know. But I stand firm that no reasonable person would know she would kill herself over this incident. In fact, I bet she didn't kill herself over this incident, but rather a bunch of things that all together she perceived gave her no choice.


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## chumy (Jul 13, 2012)

Pocketfisherman said:


> A person deserves to go to jail because an officer thinks you are a smart ***? Policy, procedure, and legal precedent be damned!? Welcome to the fascist state of TX.


You could always move to Afghanistan if you don't want any law and order.


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## Chuck06R1 (Apr 7, 2015)

Pocketfisherman said:


> Her death is not the fault of the trooper....agreed. But if the suit proves the arrest was unjust in the first place, then the troopers actions were a contributing factor in that death as (if this is proven in court) she would not have ended up in jail to begin with.


The cop may/may not have been out of line in the manner in which he treated her but saying he was a contributing factor in her suicide is ridiculous. I she was fired from her job and then committed suicide would her ex-boss be held accountable as a contributing factor?


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## AaronB (May 15, 2010)

Pocketfisherman said:


> Her death is not the fault of the trooper....agreed. But if the suit proves the arrest was unjust in the first place, then the troopers actions were a contributing factor in that death as (if this is proven in court) she would not have ended up in jail to begin with.


I can't tell whether you're trolling or you believe this nonsense..


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## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

Pocketfisherman, I like to make analogies.

You, Pocketfisherman, own a handgun legally, and leave it in the console of your truck while you go into the elementary school to pick up your kid to take the kid to a doctors appointment.

John Thief ransacks your truck while you are in the school and steals your handgun.

Later, John Thief uses your handgun to shoot and kill Jim Dope Dealer.

Are you, Pocketfisherman, responsible for the death of Jim Dope Dealer? Your actions, leaving a deadly weapon in a vehicle for anyone to steal, was a direct contributing factor in Jim Dope Dealer's death.


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## Pocketfisherman (May 30, 2005)

Whitebassfisher said:


> Pocketfisherman, I like to make analogies.
> 
> You, Pocketfisherman, own a handgun legally, and leave it in the console of your truck while you go into the elementary school to pick up your kid to take the kid to a doctors appointment.
> 
> ...


That would be up to a jury to decide. The family of Jim Dope dealer could certainly take me to court and sue me for negligence. However, I don't think that is a fair analogy here because the issue the court and suit will focus on is whether or not the arrest was justified in the first place. If it is proven the arrest was unlawful, there was no probable cause to make her get out of the car, the officer violated policy and escalated the situation because of backtalk...etc....then there is a good case to make that she would not have died if she had not been arrested, and the state was then indeed a contributor to her death by arresting her unjustly. The families lawyers feel that if this goes to a Jury, the video evidence is going to make the jury side with the family. I doubt it will ever get to that point because the state will settle first, especially if the internal investigation finds the officer violate DPS policy/procedure by escalating because she would not put out a cigarette.


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## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

Pocketfisherman said:


> That would be up to a jury to decide. The family of Jim Dope dealer could certainly take me to court and sue me for negligence. However, I don't think that is a fair analogy here because the issue the court and suit will focus on is whether or not the arrest was justified in the first place. If it is proven the arrest was unlawful, there was no probable cause to make her get out of the car, the officer violated policy and escalated the situation because of backtalk...etc....then there is a good case to make that she would not have died if she had not been arrested, and the state was then indeed a contributor to her death by arresting her unjustly. The families lawyers feel that if this goes to a Jury, the video evidence is going to make the jury side with the family. I doubt it will ever get to that point because the state will settle first, especially if the internal investigation finds the officer violate DPS policy/procedure by escalating because she would not put out a cigarette.


I think we follow each other's line of reasoning. My point is that the family must realize that Texas didn't kill Sandra, Sandra did. Nothing will bring Sandra back.

But more importantly, at least IMO, is: "Who or what dictates the direction a traffic stop or any cop/citizen situation goes? Should it be law and the cop? Or should it be the citizen?" We are Monday morning quarterbacking here which is easy for us. What is the root cause of Sandra's death? I ask the question because something similar seems to make the news on a fairly regular basis, and often the cop is blamed. I will be honest, I don't want to live here if the cop isn't allowed to control the situation. At that point, bullies will rule the streets, not law & order. There may be some bad apple cops, not saying that was the case here. But I DARN sure don't want the citizen being in control of these things, there are way too many violent evil people that would take advantage of such. We must let the law prevail.


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## BigTim (Dec 3, 2006)

I find it interesting that no one has mentioned and brought into the mix the results of her toxicology report.


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## fastpitch (Oct 15, 2004)

Whitebassfisher said:


> Many people here try to blame the family for not bailing her out. The family may have thought jail was the safest place for her. We are told they take your belt, shoe strings etc., which may or may not be true.
> 
> The same way Sandra's death is not the fault of the DPS trooper, we should not blame the family. My guess is that the family is blaming themselves now, and don't know how to deal with it.


Anybody that thinks jail is a safe place hasn't been in one.


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## Pocketfisherman (May 30, 2005)

Whitebassfisher said:


> I think we follow each other's line of reasoning. My point is that the family must realize that Texas didn't kill Sandra, Sandra did. Nothing will bring Sandra back.
> 
> But more importantly, at least IMO, is: "Who or what dictates the direction a traffic stop or any cop/citizen situation goes? Should it be law and the cop? Or should it be the citizen?" We are Monday morning quarterbacking here which is easy for us. What is the root cause of Sandra's death? I ask the question because something similar seems to make the news on a fairly regular basis, and often the cop is blamed. I will be honest, I don't want to live here if the cop isn't allowed to control the situation. At that point, bullies will rule the streets, not law & order. There may be some bad apple cops, not saying that was the case here. But I DARN sure don't want the citizen being in control of these things, there are way too many violent evil people that would take advantage of such. We must let the law prevail.


I don't disagree with you on any of this, and I believe that Sandra committed suicide and the evidence will bear that out.  But the issue is here is whether or not the officer was justified in escalating a routine traffic stop and executing an arrest because he got some lip? Why did he ask her to step out of the car, what was his probable cause to do so? From the video, it does not appear she was a threat to his safety. Did his actions follow DPS protocol? If not, then there is a good chance a Jury might find the state negligent and a contributor to her death. Until the results of the internal investigation are made public and the officers testimony and line of thought are layed out, the only real evidence is the public body cam video released and that is what I am basing my arguments upon. I well may be proved wrong and there was something out of the camera's view that justified the officer escalate the stop.....we shall see.


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## chumy (Jul 13, 2012)

BigTim said:


> I find it interesting that no one has mentioned and brought into the mix the results of her toxicology report.


Don't forget the 30 cuts on her wrist prior to the arrest. ticking timebomb...


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## Jamaica Cove (Apr 2, 2008)

Pocketfisherman:

Why are you so adamant that asking her to exit the vehicle is 'wrong'? It allows the officer a way to better see the inside of the car/vehicle. Also, have you ever watched the police shows on TV, they seem to ask the driver to get out of the car in most cases.

I'm 58 y.o., been pulled over numerous times, usually for speeding. About 50% of the time, I was asked to 'exit the vehicle'. One I recall was between POC and Seadrift by DPS. I also smoke and as I recall, every time was 'asked' to extinguish my cigarette if I had one lit, which I did. seems perfectly reasonable and logical-he likely wants to smell my breath, not smoke. you're not related to Bland are you? If so, what's you cut you're hoping for and why didn't ya bail your kin out?


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## capt.sandbar (Aug 31, 2007)

The gimmedats continue to thrive....


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## MEGABITE (May 21, 2004)

Attorney for Waller County: "We look forward to presenting all the evidence to the court, in the context of the applicable standards for civil liability, and intend to vigorously defend the case."


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## mstrelectricman (Jul 10, 2009)

I'd contribute to a fund for the cop to counter-sue after these chi-town gimmedats lose their case.


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## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

Jamaica Cove said:


> Pocketfisherman:
> I also smoke and as I recall, every time was 'asked' to extinguish my cigarette if I had one lit, which I did. seems perfectly reasonable and logical-he likely wants to smell my breath, not smoke.


Not being a cop, not smoking since 12/31/97, and not drinking ...... I didn't think of this very logical reasoning.


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## Jamaica Cove (Apr 2, 2008)

Whitebassfisher said:


> Not being a cop, not smoking since 12/31/97, and not drinking ...... I didn't think of this very logical reasoning.


Seems logical to me. Why would you find blowing smoke in a policeman's face reasonable? I smoke and do not appreciate someone blowing their smoke in my face-plus it covers up booze breath some as well as pot breath some. Heck, ya can't even smoke in downtown Houston at Main and McKinney-designated a 'smoke free zone' and only a few cities still allow smoking inside bars or restaurants.


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## Pocketfisherman (May 30, 2005)

Jamaica Cove said:


> Pocketfisherman:
> 
> Why are you so adamant that asking her to exit the vehicle is 'wrong'? It allows the officer a way to better see the inside of the car/vehicle. Also, have you ever watched the police shows on TV, they seem to ask the driver to get out of the car in most cases.
> 
> I'm 58 y.o., been pulled over numerous times, usually for speeding. About 50% of the time, I was asked to 'exit the vehicle'. One I recall was between POC and Seadrift by DPS. I also smoke and as I recall, every time was 'asked' to extinguish my cigarette if I had one lit, which I did. seems perfectly reasonable and logical-he likely wants to smell my breath, not smoke. you're not related to Bland are you? If so, what's you cut you're hoping for and why didn't ya bail your kin out?


No, I am not related to her, but that's typical of someone without a logical argument to attack the personal character of the person they are debating. My dad was a cop, my brother was a cop, now a contract trainer for police officers. I am sure that influences my opinions on this. There is a protocol and procedure that DPS officers are trained to follow when escalating a traffic stop. IMHO, this officer did not even come close to following that. As I said before, when the investigation results come out, I will either be proved wrong, or vindicated.


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## Jamaica Cove (Apr 2, 2008)

Pocketfisherman said:


> No, I am not related to her, but that's typical of someone without a logical argument to attack the personal character of the person they are debating. My dad was a cop, my brother was a cop, now a contract trainer for police officers. There is a protocol and procedure that DPS officers are trained to follow when escalating a traffic stop. IMHO, this officer did not even come close to following that. As I said before, when the investigation results come out, I will either be proved wrong, or vindicated.


I did not attack you on a personal level-sorry if you felt that way. I asked why you are so adamant about the officer asking her to exit the vehicle is wrong, to which you did not answer, which implies to me that you believe the officer was wrong asking her to exit the vehicle.

Is that 'wrong' for the officer to request she exit the vehicle? What's your father and brother say?

I usually am asked to exit the vehicle in my experience about 50% of the time. It all boils down to respect-show respect and most of the time it is returned-Bland obviously was uppity towards him after she committed to violations in front of the officer which gave him legal reason to pull her over.


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## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

I am being stubborn, I admit that. I think the trooper probably did violate some DPS policies or procedures. However, I don't personally feel he contributed to her suicide, and don't think he should be pursued in that direction. Our world is such that anyone can sue anyone for anything, but that doesn't make the suit right and doesn't guarantee a desired outcome. 

I honestly feel for Sandra Bland's family. They will probably think of her daily until they themselves die. I will add that I am qualified to debate on this subject.


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## fishingcacher (Mar 29, 2008)

Whitebassfisher said:


> I am being stubborn, I admit that. I think the trooper probably did violate some DPS policies or procedures. However, I don't personally feel he contributed to her suicide, and don't think he should be pursued in that direction. Our world is such that anyone can sue anyone for anything, but that doesn't make the suit right and doesn't guarantee a desired outcome.
> 
> I honestly feel for Sandra Bland's family. They will probably think of her daily until they themselves die. I will add that I am qualified to debate on this subject.


Maybe they are hoping to settle out of court.


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## stdreb27 (Aug 15, 2011)

Pocketfisherman said:


> No, I am not related to her, but that's typical of someone without a logical argument to attack the personal character of the person they are debating. My dad was a cop, my brother was a cop, now a contract trainer for police officers. I am sure that influences my opinions on this. There is a protocol and procedure that DPS officers are trained to follow when escalating a traffic stop. IMHO, this officer did not even come close to following that. As I said before, when the investigation results come out, I will either be proved wrong, or vindicated.


I think the real question is, when is the legal detention over?

Most of the stories I read said he had already handed her that warning piece of paper.

If the detention is over, the officer has all sorts of criminal legal issues. Because one she's under no obligation to comply with anything he asks.

If it's not over, then he has a lot more latitude to ask her to snuff out her cigarette. Get out of the car. And even arrest her. Now everyone knows it's chickenpoopoo to arrest someone for failure to change lanes without signaling. And never happens. BUT it is legal.

Anyway if she's still being legally detained I t turns into a procedural issue within the department. And hopefully a firing. Because he clearly did nothing to de-escalate the situation.


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## MEGABITE (May 21, 2004)

Neither did she. She was arrested for assaulting him (allegedly kicking him, I believe), not for failure to signal.


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## Pocketfisherman (May 30, 2005)

stdreb27 said:


> I think the real question is, when is the legal detention over?
> 
> Most of the stories I read said he had already handed her that warning piece of paper.
> 
> ...


You understand the nuances of this better than anyone else I have seen so far on this thread.


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## stdreb27 (Aug 15, 2011)

MEGABITE said:


> Neither did she. She was arrested for assaulting him (allegedly kicking him, I believe), not for failure to signal.


But it's his job. Yes she got arresting for assault.

But my point is, legally he can arrest someone for even the most insignificant traffic offense. So an arrest isn't unlawful unless she was already free to go.


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## Pocketfisherman (May 30, 2005)

MEGABITE said:


> Neither did she. She was arrested for assaulting him (allegedly kicking him, I believe), not for failure to signal.


Use of force in resisting arrest is a justified defense if the arrest or detention is unjust or illegal. Her having had prior experience with this in the past, it may well have been her mindset at the time the incident happened.


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## speckle-catcher (May 20, 2004)

MEGABITE said:


> Neither did she. She was arrested for assaulting him (allegedly kicking him, I believe), not for failure to signal.


and if supertrooper had not escalated the stop (over a cigarette) - she would not have been requested to exit the vehicle, and then there would have been no alleged assault.


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## stdreb27 (Aug 15, 2011)

speckle-catcher said:


> and if supertrooper had not escalated the stop (over a cigarette) - she would not have been requested to exit the vehicle, and then there would have been no alleged assault.


Personally, as a police officer, id be very concerned about a lit cigarette. Get that inside a bulletcproof vest and that's a problem...


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## speckle-catcher (May 20, 2004)

if she flicks it at you, sure. you could probably call that assault.

been a week or more since I watched the video...wasn't the cigarette in her right hand, inside the car?


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## MEGABITE (May 21, 2004)

speckle-catcher said:


> and if supertrooper had not escalated the stop (over a cigarette) - she would not have been requested to exit the vehicle, and then there would have been no alleged assault.


And if she would've put her cig out (common courtesy) instead of copping an attitude, the same thing would've happened.


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## Pocketfisherman (May 30, 2005)

chumy said:


> You could always move to Afghanistan if you don't want any law and order.


Actually I am all for law and order.....on both sides of the fence, citizens and LEO's. That is why I want to see this investigation move forward and made public.


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## stdreb27 (Aug 15, 2011)

speckle-catcher said:


> if she flicks it at you, sure. you could probably call that assault.
> 
> been a week or more since I watched the video...wasn't the cigarette in her right hand, inside the car?


I don't know I don't really think that distinction is all that important.

It's not unreasonable to ask someone being detained to NOT have anything in their hands. Particularly someone that could burn you...

Personally when I get stopped there are 3 things in my hands. license, insurance, steering wheel.


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## txbred (May 13, 2013)

when you get pulled over get your license and insurance ready, place both your hands on the steering wheel, and if its night time, turn on the interior light. The thing that makes LEOs nervous is not being able to keep track of your hands for obvious reasons i shouldn't have to explain here. a lit cigarette is usually moved toward an ash tray frequently. So i have NO issue with the LEO asking, then requesting, or even demanding to extinguish a cigarette.


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## txbred (May 13, 2013)

stdreb27 said:


> I don't know I don't really think that distinction is all that important.
> 
> It's not unreasonable to ask someone being detained to NOT have anything in their hands. Particularly someone that could burn you...
> 
> *Personally when I get stopped there are 3 things in my hands. license, insurance, steering wheel*.


^^^This^^^


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## speckle-catcher (May 20, 2004)

stdreb27 said:


> I don't know I don't really think that distinction is all that important.
> 
> It's not unreasonable to ask someone being detained to NOT have anything in their hands. Particularly someone that could burn you...
> 
> Personally when I get stopped there are 3 things in my hands. license, insurance, steering wheel.


 and CHL


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## poppadawg (Aug 10, 2007)

Remember the good cop, bad cop routine? Back in the late 70's cops would pull us over regularly and one would always be an aho. 
The trooper is responsible for being an aho. Bland is responsible for her death. 
What's the pay out for a cop being an aho? I could have been rich.


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## stdreb27 (Aug 15, 2011)

speckle-catcher said:


> and CHL


No comment.


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## mstrelectricman (Jul 10, 2009)

poppadawg said:


> Remember the good cop, bad cop routine? Back in the late 70's cops would pull us over regularly and one would always be an aho.
> The trooper is responsible for being an aho. Bland is responsible for her death.
> What's the pay out for a cop being an aho? I could have been rich.


I definitely remember. That's why I dislike/distrust cops to this day. I looked kinda like Terrible Ted back then with all that hair. The cops always had a tude cause I was havin way more fun than them!:rotfl:


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## jesco (Jun 23, 2013)

stdreb27 said:


> I don't know I don't really think that distinction is all that important.
> 
> Personally when I get stopped there are 3 things in my hands. license, insurance, steering wheel.


 Personally, I don't go near my glove box or console to retrieve anything until the officer says to. I imagine an officer doesn't want to see me leaning over and going into my console until he checks me out. I just leave my hands on the wheel. Maybe I'm just being overly cautious.


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## Tall1 (Aug 3, 2009)

That's the right way to go about it, in my opinion


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

Jamaica Cove said:


> I did not attack you on a personal level-sorry if you felt that way. I asked why you are so adamant about the officer asking her to exit the vehicle is wrong, to which you did not answer, which implies to me that you believe the officer was wrong asking her to exit the vehicle.
> 
> Is that 'wrong' for the officer to request she exit the vehicle? What's your father and brother say?
> 
> I usually am asked to exit the vehicle in my experience about 50% of the time. It all boils down to respect-show respect and most of the time it is returned-Bland obviously was uppity towards him after she committed to violations in front of the officer which gave him legal reason to pull her over.


Lack of respect isn't a jail offense for the most part.. The only difference between the part of that stop where he was writing her a warning, and the part of that stop where he had her on the ground and she was kicking him, was him getting pissy about her having a cigarette.

Was he within his rights to do what he did? probably. Should he have twisted off like that over a dang cigarette? No. I'm a lifelong resident of Waller County, and know several of the guys you've seen on TV over this: if there's anything about the whole situation that ****** me off, it's that his juvenile little display of "authoritah" has run a whole lot of good people and the county in general through the wringer for no good reason but to satisfy his own arrogance. This county can't afford this, and it's all just because he wasn't enough of a man to just walk away when it became obvious that the path it was going wasn't going anywhere good, and that nothing on the other side was worth throwing somebody in jail over. "You ****** me off, so I'm gonna lock you up" is no way to run a police action in a free country. He needs to grow up, resign, and go flip burgers somewhere. I'm sure he can get a job pulling security at a nightclub somewhere.


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## Swampstomper (Apr 19, 2010)

Was the cop wrong for escalating the situation and threatening to "light her up" ? Definitely . Was she wrong for all the crud she did to get herself thrown in jail . Definitely.

What really bothers me is the media and activists are basically implying that the people in the county jail murdered her. I heard Fox 26 recently describe it as " she was found strangled with a trash bag ". They know that she was found hanging but use wordplay to keep the pot boiling.

When the family held the news conference about the lawsuit a reporter asked why they didnt bail her out. The mother got up and walked out.

Unlawful arrest, probably. Caused her death ? Don,t think so.


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## Gemini8 (Jun 29, 2013)

Swampstomper said:


> When the family held the news conference about the lawsuit a reporter asked why they didnt bail her out. The mother got up and walked out.


Think that pretty much summed up what kind of family she came from.


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## AaronB (May 15, 2010)

When dwilliams makes a long thread I usually read first and last sentences. Usually I either disagree or strongly disagree. He spews Obama preaching garbage. Be warned!


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

AaronB said:


> When dwilliams makes a long thread I usually read first and last sentences. Usually I either disagree or strongly disagree. He spews Obama preaching garbage. Be warned!


So how would you know what is being spewed from only the first and last sentences? I guess you just want somebody else to fill in the blanks for you, huh? Dang socialist gimmedat, always wanting somebody else to make up for their own laziness...


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## Newbomb Turk (Sep 16, 2005)

^^^


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## MarkU (Jun 3, 2013)

That Trooper is as liable for her death. As the Wheat Fields in Kansas are, for my fat arse.


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## elgatogus (Oct 27, 2010)

I have an honest question...

If this incident would have happened to a Hispanic/ Mexican person, do you all think it would've gotten this far?

Really?


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## Chuck06R1 (Apr 7, 2015)

elgatogus said:


> I have an honest question...
> 
> If this incident would have happened to a Hispanic/ Mexican person, do you all think it would've gotten this far?
> 
> Really?


No


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## Bocephus (May 30, 2008)

Pocketfisherman said:


> A person deserves to go to jail because an officer thinks you are a smart ***? Policy, procedure, and legal precedent be damned!? Welcome to the fascist state of TX.


Next time you get pulled over...get an attitude and talk crazy to the LEO.

When you get out of jail....be sure and post up what a badass you were.

LMAO !

The side of the road is NOT the place to dispute the traffic stop. That's what the courthouse and the Judge is for !


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## Hooked Up (May 23, 2004)

dwilliams35 said:


> Lack of respect isn't a jail offense for the most part.. The only difference between the part of that stop where he was writing her a warning, and the part of that stop where he had her on the ground and she was kicking him, was him getting pissy about her having a cigarette.
> 
> Was he within his rights to do what he did? probably. Should he have twisted off like that over a dang cigarette? No. I'm a lifelong resident of Waller County, and know several of the guys you've seen on TV over this: if there's anything about the whole situation that ****** me off, it's that his juvenile little display of "authoritah" has run a whole lot of good people and the county in general through the wringer for no good reason but to satisfy his own arrogance. This county can't afford this, and it's all just because he wasn't enough of a man to just walk away when it became obvious that the path it was going wasn't going anywhere good, and that nothing on the other side was worth throwing somebody in jail over. "You ****** me off, so I'm gonna lock you up" is no way to run a police action in a free country. He needs to grow up, resign, and go flip burgers somewhere. I'm sure he can get a job pulling security at a nightclub somewhere.


Pretty sure he wasn't trained Or paid to just "walk away" when things get uncomfortable. Speaking of training; Please share you law enforcement training and experience with us?


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

Hooked Up said:


> Pretty sure he wasn't trained Or paid to just "walk away" when things get uncomfortable. Speaking of training; Please share you law enforcement training and experience with us?


 He was trained, or should have been, to act like an adult and keep such situations from escalating into worse conflicts. He failed. Miserably.

As far as my law enforcement training, I was trained as a double-secret agent by the Illuminati. I'm also a level 7 certified lion tamer, and a licensed calendar page turner. Of course, that resume' is irrelevant, since my observations of this situation are from the perspective of a citizen of the county, state, and country in question, protected from governmental overreach by the Constitution of the United States. What else ya got?


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## pocjetty (Sep 12, 2014)

dwilliams35 said:


> He was trained, or should have been, to act like an adult and keep such situations from escalating into worse conflicts. He failed. Miserably.


I can agree up to a point. But there wasn't that much "escalation". Remember, this wasn't an officer shooting. A normal person doesn't hang themselves in jail over anything that happened here.

She had already cut her wrists. Does the whole world have to go to lengths to avoid stressing her out? Or just police?

Maybe the guy had enough abuse for one day. Maybe he didn't have to ask her to put out her cigarette. But if we've reached the point where asking someone to put out a cigarette is criminalized, we really are sunk.


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## Tucsonred (Jun 9, 2007)

Now they're saying they were trying to pay the $500 bail but they didn't know where to send it. Now, for one .. and this is just my 2 cents..the bondsman that called them would have given that info. OR calling the jail, they would have told them that info....and here's my 3 cents..they were tried of bailing her butt out of jail...but now they are crying foul and looking at $'s 
Linda


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

pocjetty said:


> I can agree up to a point. But there wasn't that much "escalation". Remember, this wasn't an officer shooting. A normal person doesn't hang themselves in jail over anything that happened here.
> 
> She had already cut her wrists. Does the whole world have to go to lengths to avoid stressing her out? Or just police?
> 
> Maybe the guy had enough abuse for one day. Maybe he didn't have to ask her to put out her cigarette. But if we've reached the point where asking someone to put out a cigarette is criminalized, we really are sunk.


 I have a hard time blaming the trooper for the suicide: that's well beyond his control. He did start the ball rolling that ended up at the point where she decided to kill herself, of course; however, that's right up there with the story about a butterfly in africa causing a hurricane in the US ( or whatever it is..) He basically just didn't act like an adult, didn't exercise good judgement about a reasonable reaction to any action she may have taken.. Troopers are supposed to be pretty good at that. If he had exercised that judgement, we would have never heard either of their names and Waller County would have another couple of hundred bucks in their coffers from the ticket that she talked herself into.


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## BBCAT (Feb 2, 2010)

Comply don't die.


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## Hooked Up (May 23, 2004)

> As far as my law enforcement training, I was trained as a double-secret agent by the Illuminati. I'm also a level 7 certified lion tamer, and a licensed calendar page turner. Of course, that resume' is irrelevant, since my observations of this situation are from the perspective of a citizen of the county, state, and country in question, protected from governmental overreach by the Constitution of the United States. What else ya got?


LOL! Pretty much as we thought. :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:


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## pocjetty (Sep 12, 2014)

Hooked Up said:


> LOL! Pretty much as we thought. :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:


Oh, c'mon. You know he was being sarcastic. I expect most of us talking about this don't have law enforcement training. I know I don't.

I agree with a lot of what he's saying. The officer pushed her a bit.

What I don't know is if he saw something in her behavior that made him think he needed to. I don't think for a second he did it because she was black.

I know that one of the biggest tools that police have is to ask questions or push them a bit, and watch the reaction. They've done it to me, and I understand why. I wouldn't want to take that away from them, because we'd all be a lot less safe.

I agree with DWill on some of the basic facts, just not necessarily the conclusion.


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## old 37 (Nov 30, 2014)

pocjetty said:


> Oh, c'mon. You know he was being sarcastic. I expect most of us talking about this don't have law enforcement training. I know I don't.
> 
> I agree with a lot of what he's saying. The officer pushed her a bit.
> 
> ...


 You may have something because they stated that he had been giving warnings to other drivers so maybe something about this stop was different and it wasn't race because on that road 95% of the drivers are black as well.


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## Kickin'Bass (Mar 25, 2012)

The part of the video that sort of aggravates me at the LEO, is the part where after the initial part of the LEO informing her she was getting a warning for failure to signal, there was a pause, then the LEO asked her "something wrong"? She then replied "yes, I think its **** that you stop me for failure to signal". At that very moment you could see the LEO got his panties bunched up just because someone dared to not bow down and kiss his *****. Then the proverbial $%^^! hit the fan!

I can guarantee I am never happy to see a cop pull me over for any reason. Ive had more tickets in my life than a lot of cops have written. I don't think just because im not all grins and giggles that you act the way that the LEO did. He asked her and she told him, then he went into "hold my beer and watch this" mode after she told him she thought it was laime to get stopped for not signaling.


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## Pocketfisherman (May 30, 2005)

elgatogus said:


> I have an honest question...
> 
> If this incident would have happened to a Hispanic/ Mexican person, do you all think it would've gotten this far?
> 
> Really?


I think a better question is: If this had happened to my daughter, would I feel any differently?


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

old 37 said:


> You may have something because they stated that he had been giving warnings to other drivers so maybe something about this stop was different and it wasn't race because on that road 95% of the drivers are black as well.


He was giving her a warning, as well. Right up until he decided to kick her *** because she had a cigarette.


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

Hooked Up said:


> LOL! Pretty much as we thought. :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:


Have I ever claimed to have any LE experience? My LE experience is pretty much limited to shooting a lot of ducks, a lot of pistol and rifle rounds, killing a lot of beers, and running retrievers with very good friends that happen to have badges of one persuasion or another. No, I'm got one up on that: I'm the guy they work for... Right up until they twist off and decide they're Judge Dredd. At that point they need to be flipping burgers.


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## TxDuSlayer (Jun 24, 2006)

dwilliams35 said:


> Have I ever claimed to have any LE experience? My LE experience is pretty much limited to shooting a lot of ducks, a lot of pistol and rifle rounds, killing a lot of beers, and running retrievers with very good friends that happen to have badges of one persuasion or another. No, I'm got one up on that: I'm the guy they work for... Right up until they twist off and decide they're Judge Dredd. At that point they need to be flipping burgers.


 As I have stated before you think you know everything about law enforcement but yet you have zero experience, I don't even know if you have ever even been in a patrol car? But yet you never miss a chance to post on a cop bashing thread. Of course that's why your known as the official 2cool cop hater.
Then you say your the guy we work for, assuming your referring to you being a tax payer or are you now the county judge? Wrong on that one bucko we pay taxes just like everybody else does.
Furthermore wish you would quit making reference, that cops need to be flipping burgers whenever they do something wrong. You can't even do that right cause every time I go to Whataburger you manage to screw up my order.


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## Pivo and kolache (Mar 13, 2014)

Pocketfisherman said:


> I think a better question is: If this had happened to my daughter, would I feel any differently?


I've thought quite abit about just that senario.....what if it was me? If my folks found out I was in jail, and then I made a big enough stink about it to end up on tv......Mister, Id be better off in jail...


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## Pivo and kolache (Mar 13, 2014)

Kickin'Bass said:


> The part of the video that sort of aggravates me at the LEO, is the part where after the initial part of the LEO informing her she was getting a warning for failure to signal, there was a pause, then the LEO asked her "something wrong"? She then replied "yes, I think its **** that you stop me for failure to signal". At that very moment you could see the LEO got his panties bunched up just because someone dared to not bow down and kiss his *****. Then the proverbial $%^^! hit the fan!
> 
> I can guarantee I am never happy to see a cop pull me over for any reason. Ive had more tickets in my life than a lot of cops have written. I don't think just because im not all grins and giggles that you act the way that the LEO did. He asked her and she told him, then he went into "hold my beer and watch this" mode after she told him she thought it was laime to get stopped for not signaling.


It worries me some....that there are so many people out there that think this is the acceptable. I was taught to respect the law, if you're in the wrong take your licks and move on. If you're right, prove it. But what does starting an argument with a cop on the side of the highway going to prove? Other than you arnt very intellgent. Does anyone honestly think arguing with a cop is going to convince him not to ticket you? Maybe I was brought up a bit diffrent, but when the law asks me to do something I do it. If I think I was treated unfairly il go talk to whoever needs talking to....but the guy was just trying to do his job. One that isint very easy, and gets harder everyday the way folks are making law dogs out to be these days.....


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## teeroy (Oct 1, 2009)

Pocketfisherman said:


> No argument from me on that point. However the suit will focus on the arrest being unlawful and on probable cause to have her exit the car which is not the norm for a traffic stop in TX. The state will have to demonstrate why she was forced to do so and the officer's reasoning to take it to that level. Lack of respect shown to an officer is not probable cause.


You keep using the term probable cause.... I'm not sure you know what means. She was detained for a criminal offense. Asking her to exit the vehicle is justified, legal and within dept. policy, not to mention backed by the scotus.

FYI, the rangers and DOJ have already cleared the officer, but you won't find that online.

Waller Co. will have to pay for making a trash bag accessible to her. End of story.


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## Kickin'Bass (Mar 25, 2012)

Pivo and kolache said:


> It worries me some....that there are so many people out there that think this is the acceptable. I was taught to respect the law, if you're in the wrong take your licks and move on. If you're right, prove it. But what does starting an argument with a cop on the side of the highway going to prove? Other than you arnt very intellgent. Does anyone honestly think arguing with a cop is going to convince him not to ticket you? Maybe I was brought up a bit diffrent, but when the law asks me to do something I do it. If I think I was treated unfairly il go talk to whoever needs talking to....but the guy was just trying to do his job. One that isint very easy, and gets harder everyday the way folks are making law dogs out to be these days.....[/Q
> 
> I have plenty of respect for the law. But just because a LEO pulls me over, don't mean I have to like it, or for that fact be nice to him, respectful, yes, you can be ****** and still be respectful at same time.. In that video the LEO clearly got bent when AFTER he asked her if she was mad she told him yes, and why. Bottom line is the LEO went on a power trip after she told him she thought it was laime to get stopped for a turn signal, after he asked. She could have done plenty different after that and things would have been different, so could he by not getting his panties bunched over something so silly.


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## spurgersalty (Jun 29, 2010)

TxDuSlayer said:


> As I have stated before you think you know everything about law enforcement but yet you have zero experience, I don't even know if you have ever even been in a patrol car? But yet you never miss a chance to post on a cop bashing thread. Of course that's why your known as the official 2cool cop hater.
> *Then you say your the guy we work for, assuming your referring to you being a tax payer or are you now the county judge? Wrong on that one bucko we pay taxes just like everybody else does.*
> Furthermore wish you would quit making reference, that cops need to be flipping burgers whenever they do something wrong. You can't even do that right cause every time I go to Whataburger you manage to screw up my order.


When you don that uniform, you become a public servant. You do, in fact, work for us as an extension of the government that the bill of rights was put in place to protect us from. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.


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## txbred (May 13, 2013)

pocjetty said:


> Oh, c'mon. You know he was being sarcastic. I expect most of us talking about this don't have law enforcement training. I know I don't.
> 
> I agree with a lot of what he's saying. The officer pushed her a bit.
> 
> ...


Spot on!

I was pulled over on I-10 late one night about 3 yrs ago in my 96 Dodge Ram. The reason was my license plate light fixture was broken and the bulb/wiring harness was hanging down between the spare tire and bumper. Mr. DPS couldn't read my plate #s. When he approached my truck (from the passenger side which scared the **** out of me; i was expecting him on the drivers side), his first question was "are you a felon?"

I answered "No sir, never even been arrested"

Next question "do you have any dead bodies or drugs in your tool box?"

I couldn't help but laugh, with an "are you serious" look on my face. But i answered "NO, wanna see?"

He just proceeded to ask for my DL and Insurance.

These are called control questions. They are highly trained to read body language. Had i simply shook my head no with no signs of "really dude??" on my face, he would have known or suspected i prob had something to hide.

After the warning about my license plate light, i asked him if i could investigate the broken light issue right there and he said Yes. So we moved to the back of my truck, i got on my back and slid myself under my bumper head first. When i reached up to try and put the bulb/fixture back where it belonged, i saw him unsnap his holster. THAT freaked me out. The reason? he could no longer see my hands. I stopped IMMEDIATELY and said "I'll just fix this later".

And we parted ways.


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## Pocketfisherman (May 30, 2005)

teeroy said:


> You keep using the term probable cause.... I'm not sure you know what means. She was detained for a criminal offense. Asking her to exit the vehicle is justified, legal and within dept. policy, not to mention backed by the scotus.
> 
> FYI, the rangers and DOJ have already cleared the officer, but you won't find that online.
> 
> Waller Co. will have to pay for making a trash bag accessible to her. End of story.


Do you have a source for the FBI/DOJ report, or press release link stating he was cleared? I would very much like to read the finding in detail. I could not find anything stating this was so when I searched the FBI's website. The FBI became involved on July 22nd with a focus on civil rights violations.

In a July 22nd report -
_In arresting Bland, the trooper "violated the department's procedures regarding traffic stops and the department's courtesy policy," state public safety officials said Friday without specifying what procedures the trooper, whose name has not been released, had violated
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...s-jailed-woman-suicide-sandra-bland/30284367/

_The FBI completing an investigation like this in anything less than 30 days would be a new precedent.


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## Pocketfisherman (May 30, 2005)

I can understand that you might be confused with the Autopsy results being released, and that indeed did say she committed suicide and the officer did not cause her death. On that point I have never disagreed or thought otherwise. My point of argument is that the original arrest did not follow procedure, the officer was unprofessional, the traffic violation detention was unjustly escalated......AND in a civil suit the family is filing, a jury might find that a contributing factor to Bland's death and they MAY hold the officer liable for damages.

Do I agree with Bland's behavior...No, I would never act that way. But at the same time, that in and of itself is not an arrestable offense.


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## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

We can all argue forever, but what are our options?

Cops have a job, they get paid, hopefully actually like their job and take pride in it, and we get protection. It seems to have worked for a long time fairly well.

Could the trooper have done a better job? Sure. 
Did he cause her death? No way. Did he contribute? IMO no way.

Can anyone here really suggest that cops shouldn't be in control of a stop? Where would that actually leave us? 

Cops are allowed to use discretion, such as issue warnings instead of tickets. But law is basically cut and dried, line in the sand, no in between. It must be that way so in criminal court you are guilty or not guilty.

My point is we are dealing with people, not machines. Anyone reading this that has personally been abused by police such as beating or arrest for zero reason?


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## MarkU (Jun 3, 2013)

We have a slew of laws/rules/regulations on the books. From driving to food preparation. We also have hired folks to enforce these laws/rules/regulations. When you get caught breaking one of these. It's always in your best interest to not act like a dipchit. When you start acting like a dipchit. You're going to get treated like a dipchit 99.9% of the time. You are responsible for your; tone, actions, and attitude. It's your right as a USA citizen to act like a dipchit. Just as much as the authoritative figure-head has the right to go full blown a-hole. And choose how far they will go on the punishment, they're allowed to dole out.

Try going full dipchit on a building inspector. Try it on your boss. Try it on your customers. Try it on the judge, who's residing over your traffic ticket. Let's see how your constitutional rights to be a dipchit, work out for you.


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## Pocketfisherman (May 30, 2005)

I don't disagree with anything you said. Howver, being in control of a situation also means being in control of your own professional behavior, recognizing when that is about to NOT happen, and dealing with that. His life was not in danger, he could have backed down and called a supervisor, or otherwise de-escalated AS THEY ARE TRAINED TO DO......and that is where the internal investigation is focusing.

I am done with this thread until the investigation results from the TX Rangers, special prosecutor, and FBI are all completed. If I am proven wrong, I will come back here and aplogise to anyone I may have offended. If I am right, you can all just go.......fishing or something.


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## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

Pocketfisherman said:


> His life was not in danger, *he could have backed down ...*...


We can agree to disagree, but the point I have tried to make in this thread is that if cops start *backing down* to smart arses, where will that lead us? Won't that in effect change it from law and order to biggest bully gets by with things that a meek and mild person doesn't? I don't want that.


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## MikeS2942 (Mar 5, 2010)

The case is frivolous! This is just another case of a greedy attorney our to make a huge payday off the death of someone else. 

Ambulance Chasers!


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

TxDuSlayer said:


> As I have stated before you think you know everything about law enforcement but yet you have zero experience, I don't even know if you have ever even been in a patrol car? But yet you never miss a chance to post on a cop bashing thread. Of course that's why your known as the official 2cool cop hater.
> Then you say your the guy we work for, assuming your referring to you being a tax payer or are you now the county judge? Wrong on that one bucko we pay taxes just like everybody else does.
> Furthermore wish you would quit making reference, that cops need to be flipping burgers whenever they do something wrong. You can't even do that right cause every time I go to Whataburger you manage to screw up my order.


Have I EVER, and I mean EVER, claimed I'm something I'm not in regards to law enforcement? If you say yes, you're a liar. I've got good friends that are LE of one type or another, and I'll sit right there over multiple beers, stacks of ducks at a cleaning table, or piles of empty .45ACP brass and tell them the same thing I do here. They know perfectly well that I've got their back, support law enforcement to a great degree, contribute to LE "causes", etc. etc. etc...

They also know that I'm going to be the first to go after them when they have betrayed the public trust by going off the reservation when it comes to violations of the law and the constitutional rights of citizens. In exchange for the authority that comes with the badge comes a huge amount of responsibility: I'm the one that is going to ALWAYS hold them to that, whether the general public seems to have any interest in holding them accountable for their actions or not. If that's "Cop Hating" in your twisted-*** little mind, then so be it: that's a problem with your own interpretation of the English language, not mine.

And yes, I am the guy they work for. Just like you are, just like pretty much everybody on this board is. If you can't handle the concept of "public servant", that's yet another failure of yours, not mine.

If burgers offends you so much, I apologize. From here on I'll try to remember to suggest that cops that violate the public trust due to their own arrogance or corruption would be better off emptying port-a-cans.

You took an oath. Honor it.


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## TxDuSlayer (Jun 24, 2006)

dwilliams35 said:


> Have I EVER, and I mean EVER, claimed I'm something I'm not in regards to law enforcement? If you say yes, you're a liar. I've got good friends that are LE of one type or another, and I'll sit right there over multiple beers, stacks of ducks at a cleaning table, or piles of empty .45ACP brass and tell them the same thing I do here. They know perfectly well that I've got their back, support law enforcement to a great degree, contribute to LE "causes", etc. etc. etc...
> 
> They also know that I'm going to be the first to go after them when they have betrayed the public trust by going off the reservation when it comes to violations of the law and the constitutional rights of citizens. In exchange for the authority that comes with the badge comes a huge amount of responsibility: I'm the one that is going to ALWAYS hold them to that, whether the general public seems to have any interest in holding them accountable for their actions or not. If that's "Cop Hating" in your twisted-*** little mind, then so be it: that's a problem with your own interpretation of the English language, not mine.
> 
> ...


 Yep, that's your typical statement whenever I call you out on being a cop hater. Then you claim all the support you give which is bs in your 50 year old worn out *** mind.
Once again I think I know the oath and understanding of a "public servant" far better than you, because your not one!!
After speaking with your boss this morning seems your not the great employee you think you are that makes no mistakes or does nothing wrong. One last chance on the deep fryer today during the lunch run you burn em again its back to the unemployment line. Good Luck


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

TxDuSlayer said:


> Yep, that's your typical statement whenever I call you out on being a cop hater. Then you claim all the support you give which is bs in your 50 year old worn out *** mind.
> Once again I think I know the oath and understanding of a "public servant" far better than you, because your not one!!
> After speaking with your boss this morning seems your not the great employee you think you are that makes no mistakes or does nothing wrong. One last chance on the deep fryer today during the lunch run you burn em again its back to the unemployment line. Good Luck


 I'm tellin' you, we just can't get good help now that all those guys are comin' over from the sheriff's department now. They keep burning the fries and dropping the burgers in the mop water.

Is that the best you've got? really? Pretty pitiful effort.


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## chumy (Jul 13, 2012)

Whitebassfisher said:


> We can agree to disagree, but the point I have tried to make in this thread is that if cops start *backing down* to smart arses, where will that lead us? Won't that in effect change it from law and order to biggest bully gets by with things that a meek and mild person doesn't? I don't want that.


WBF, You've come a long way in a couple of years. It must have been that ride along you did that changed your view points towards the po-po?
I remember it always wasn't so positive
Green sent!


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## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

chumy said:


> WBF, You've come a long way in a couple of years. It must have been that ride along you did that changed your view points towards the po-po?
> I remember it always wasn't so positive
> Green sent!


The ride along helped, and hopefully a little wisdom enters into it. 
Concerning the ride along, in a nut shell, "As a taxpayer or any other measuring stick one cares to use, I want him working for me."
Different city than I live in yes, but in the same country.


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