# Question for the 'Operators' on 2cool....



## Tortuga (May 21, 2004)

Got a question for all the 'Operators' here on 2cool...and there seem to be a lot of them. What exactly does an Operator do ??.. 

From looking at all the posts and times posted...seems like they must just glance at a few gauges from time to time and then click back onto 2cool for a few hours.:biggrin:

No disrespect intended.. Just curious...Know the jobs pay very well..but that would be a given if they expected me to get up every morning and walk into the gate of one of those 'ticking time bombs'.. Way beyond my 'bravery' grade... Bet they have some 'hairy' stories to tell.....

Like I said..just curious....


----------



## dieselmaker (Jul 6, 2007)

They dont pay us the rate they do for the time we get on 2cool. They pay us this much for when its upside down and on fire! An operator for the most part is a baby sitter. If the process is running good we moniter and get readings to keep it that way. If it gets off spec or upset then we go to work to fix it. It can get spooky at times but thats were training and experiance come in. And if it gets too bad shut it down and run like hell! 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Walkin' Jack (May 20, 2004)

dieselmaker said:


> They dont pay us the rate they do for the time we get on 2cool. They pay us this much for when its upside down and on fire! An operator for the most part is a baby sitter. If the process is running good we moniter and get readings to keep it that way. If it gets off spec or upset then we go to work to fix it. It can get spooky at times but thats were training and experiance come in. And if it gets too bad shut it down and run like hell!
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2


That pretty much sums it up Jim. I always thought of it as "riding the rocket" The potential for disaster is always there. I was in the plant at Shell Chemical one quiet Sunday morning back in the '90s When OPIII blew up. OPIII is on the west side of the complex and my unit, the old BA plant is on the east side over a quarter mile away. The explosion shook the cinderblock control room to the extent that it knocked me out of my chair. The fire was so hot it was starving for O2 and pulled the door open on the west side of the building and when it got all it wanted it slammed the door very hard.

I was also in the plant when the VCM plant burned. Fire so hot it twisted the pipes in and overhead pipe rack until it looked like cooked spaghetti.

And I can't count the number of times we were gassed by Rhome & Haas just to the east of us. I te'ya it pays to stay tense and alert.

You could think of it as a kind of baby sitting job. If the baby is sleeping then you got it made. If the baby poops his pants then you gotta git busy.

A lot of the processes are weather sensitive and a sudden rainstorm on a hot August afternoon can cause MAJOR problems especially on Fractionation columns, which is what I did the last 10 years I worked at Shell. It can be a real adventure....


----------



## Saltwater Boy(1) (Jan 11, 2013)

I am going to LIT next semester to start my Process degree. Any helpful hints or tips from some experienced operators in here?


----------



## chumy (Jul 13, 2012)

Operators carry channel-locks. They tighten stuff when it leaks and beat the hell out of instruments when they don't read right. Then they call me to come fix the instrument.


----------



## Saltwater Boy(1) (Jan 11, 2013)

chumy said:


> Operators carry channel-locks. They tighten stuff when it leaks and beat the hell out of instruments when they don't read right. Then they call me to come fix the instrument.


 Assuming you are an instrument tech? lol


----------



## wakeupluis (Feb 16, 2006)

I am Homer Simpson


----------



## neal_murph (Apr 12, 2012)

LOL they cry every time i come in to get a permit. They have to either get off their phone or the internet and actually do something.


----------



## SpecklFinAddict (Dec 19, 2004)

chumy said:


> Operators carry channel-locks. They tighten stuff when it leaks and beat the hell out of instruments when they don't read right. Then they call me to come fix the instrument.


So your the parts changer guy!


----------



## Walkin' Jack (May 20, 2004)

neal_murph said:


> LOL they cry every time i come in to get a permit. They have to either get off their phone or the internet and actually do something.


Yeah, and we're the ones that are 80' off the ground up the side of a column at 3:00 AM wrapping insulation around an instrument air line when it's 29 deg and the wind is out of the north at 35mph while you are at home asleep in your bed. :slimer:


----------



## 98aggie77566 (Jul 7, 2009)

I co-op'd at Dow for a year.

It FREAKED me out when I would go into the control room and hear alarms going off all over the place....and the operators are busy reading a newspaper or cooking something on the stove.

They tell me they are "nuisance alarms".....I prefer to think of the operators as "Pavlov's Dog"....alarm goes off and instant is to start slapping at buttons.

And I come from a family of operators......my dad told me at a young age if I worked in a plant when I grew up that he would kick my ***....it worked.


----------



## neal_murph (Apr 12, 2012)

Walkin' Jack said:


> Yeah, and we're the ones that are 80' off the ground up the side of a column at 3:00 AM wrapping insulation around an instrument air line when it's 29 deg and the wind is out of the north at 35mph while you are at home asleep in your bed. :slimer:


LOL and then back to the control room. We are outside in the elements all day and night depending on the job we are following out.


----------



## rc10j1 (Jul 15, 2010)

Operators always try to convince people how dangerous their job is, when in reality it is one of the safest jobs in the plant. They spend 80-90% of their day in a explosion resistant building. This is why in most major plant incidents it is others, and not operators who are killed and injured. Maintenance and contractors are at far more risk because they are out in the dangerous environment all day. Also, always remember that your bad decisions and or laziness can get someone killed.


----------



## neal_murph (Apr 12, 2012)

rc10j1 said:


> Operators always try to convince people how dangerous their job is, when in reality it is one of the safest jobs in the plant. They spend 80-90% of their day in a explosion resistant building. This is why in most major plant incidents it is others, and not operators who are killed and injured. Maintenance and contractors are at far more risk because they are out in the dangerous environment all day. Also, always remember that your bad decisions and or laziness can get someone killed.


^ X2


----------



## SpecklFinAddict (Dec 19, 2004)

neal_murph said:


> LOL they cry every time i come in to get a permit. They have to either get off their phone or the internet and actually do something.


Now we have the guy that does all the work showing up....Hey, how did you make this post by the way? From your phone in the unit, or sitting at your desk on the internet?

I now designate May 16th as Kick an Operator Day....y'all really have no idea!


----------



## neal_murph (Apr 12, 2012)

FlatoutFishin said:


> Now we have the guy that does all the work showing up....Hey, how did you make this post by the way? From your phone in the unit, or sitting at your desk on the internet?


No I'm on vacation. Leaving for the river in a few.


----------



## C.Hern5972 (Jul 17, 2009)

dieselmaker said:


> They dont pay us the rate they do for the time we get on 2cool. They pay us this much for when its upside down and on fire! An operator for the most part is a baby sitter. If the process is running good we moniter and get readings to keep it that way. If it gets off spec or upset then we go to work to fix it. It can get spooky at times but thats were training and experiance come in. And if it gets too bad shut it down and run like hell!
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2


Well Said..

Its more than just sitting around. Work a control board on a cold night or Stormy night, instruments fail, running blind getting your unti back to a safe mode. 
Stop crying, yall chose your jobs. I chose operations for a reason.


----------



## SpecklFinAddict (Dec 19, 2004)

neal_murph said:


> No I'm on vacation. Leaving for the river in a few.


Enjoy it and hurry back....we might not be able to survive without you!


----------



## Too Tall (May 21, 2004)

rc10j1 said:


> Operators always try to convince people how dangerous their job is, when in reality it is one of the safest jobs in the plant. They spend 80-90% of their day in a explosion resistant building. This is why in most major plant incidents it is others, and not operators who are killed and injured. Maintenance and contractors are at far more risk because they are out in the dangerous environment all day. Also, always remember that your bad decisions and or laziness can get someone killed.


Just who do you think found the problem, isolated it, deconned it etc before you were even aware there was problem and got off your lazy *** to come out and attempt to fix it. You missed all the safe parts of the job and showed up well afterwards. :brew2:


----------



## rc10j1 (Jul 15, 2010)

Normally the inspection department found it. You turned a valve and then the contractor did the dangerous part of installing the blinds. Didn't say your job was 100% safe, but it is nowhere near the most dangerous job in the plant.


----------



## Gilbert (May 25, 2004)

this is turning out to be a great ******* match. entertaining. keep up the good work.


----------



## 123456 (Apr 6, 2005)

rc10j1 said:


> Normally the inspection department found it. You turned a valve and then the contractor did the dangerous part of installing the blinds. Didn't say your job was 100% safe, but it is nowhere near the most dangerous job in the plant.


In my plant, normally the field operators are the ones to go in and troubleshoot he problem and either isolate it or bypass it if we can so by the time you get there to get on red tags its all done and all you have to do is replace a few fittings!!
Its been a while since I've worked outside as I'm in the control room now but theres things that happen up there that sometimes make me wish I was still outside just turning valves.


----------



## Part Timer (Jul 2, 2012)

NSpannTx said:


> In my plant, normally the field operators are the ones to go in and troubleshoot he problem and either isolate it or bypass it if we can so by the time you get there to get on red tags its all done and all you have to do is replace a few fittings!!
> Its been a while since I've worked outside as I'm in the control room now but theres things that happen up there that sometimes make me wish I was still outside just turning valves.


I got a question...im assuming your at work now cause thats when most of us spend hours on 2cool so while you are busy defending the importance of your job......who is watching the ribs??? 

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## 123456 (Apr 6, 2005)

Part Timer said:


> I got a question...im assuming your at work now cause thats when most of us spend hours on 2cool so while you are busy defending the importance if your job......who is watching the ribs???
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2


Wrong again!!! On my 7 days off!!! Tomorrow night when your cracking your first beer I'll be going in to keep your fridge cold. But for the last 7 while your getting your morning coffee and warming up your lunch in the microwave I've been cracking my beer! Next....


----------



## Part Timer (Jul 2, 2012)

NSpannTx said:


> Wrong again!!! On my 7 days off!!! Tomorrow night when your cracking your first beer I'll be going in to keep your fridge cold. Next....


Haha lucky dog. Operations has its perks for sure.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## chumy (Jul 13, 2012)

Saltwater Boy(1) said:


> Assuming you are an instrument tech? lol


used to be and still are on occasion.


----------



## FREON (Jun 14, 2005)

FlatoutFishin said:


> Enjoy it and hurry back....we might not be able to survive without you!


 The original question, that you still haven't answered, is "What do operators do?" Why don't you answer it? :biggrin:


----------



## bigdipper (Feb 2, 2013)

Just my two cents but..... If an operator is paid all day to make adjustments and sit on his butt and fine tune things. Well it seems to me like the unit must be running good. Otherwise he would be outside troubleshooting and working his butt off. So if he is doing his job well that must mean he works less! To the people who are outside changing valves and what not, the operators prepare that equipment so you can do your job safely. Some people get paid for brains, some get paid for backs. 

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## rc10j1 (Jul 15, 2010)

FREON said:


> The original question, that you still haven't answered, is "What do operators do?" Why don't you answer it? :biggrin:


Keep the unit running and gripe about management.


----------



## Tortuga (May 21, 2004)

WOW !!! Figured it was dangerous... Guess i oughta be grateful that all I have to worry about is our almost weekly visit from some crazy drug-starved wild eyed addict sticking a gun in my face and demanding his free 'fix'....

Guess I better count my blessings after 60 years of that....


----------



## mustangeric (May 22, 2010)

Just curious what does the avg. Operator make per yr?


----------



## rc10j1 (Jul 15, 2010)

bigdipper said:


> Just my two cents but..... If an operator is paid all day to make adjustments and sit on his butt and fine tune things. Well it seems to me like the unit must be running good. Otherwise he would be outside troubleshooting and working his butt off. So if he is doing his job well that must mean he works less! To the people who are outside changing valves and what not, the operators prepare that equipment so you can do your job safely. Some people get paid for brains, some get paid for backs.
> 
> Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk 2


The guys getting paid for their brains are the ones who designed and automated the unit, not the guy staring at the console. I'm in management. You know I got to give process hell. Lol


----------



## FREON (Jun 14, 2005)

rc10j1 said:


> Keep the unit running and gripe about management.


and cook hot meals and wash dishes and surf the web......yep, that bout cuverz it


----------



## KJON (May 1, 2006)

Scheduling/planning is everything, if it's your turn for movie night you have to pick ones the others haven't seen, if it's your turn to cook, you'd best not forget the food!!!!. If it's your turn to watch the board while the others sleep,,,,you best not doze off and let the night foreman walk in on you. Make sure the maintenance skeleton crew knows when and not to enter. And always make sure the guy in the tank farm cleans the frogs and rabbits in the field before bringing them in. :dance:


----------



## Saltwater Boy(1) (Jan 11, 2013)

mustangeric said:


> Just curious what does the avg. Operator make per yr?


 Couple of buddies cleared $100K their first year...imagine lots of over time involved.


----------



## Too Tall (May 21, 2004)

rc10j1 said:


> I'm in management.


well that explains your lack of knowledge on the subject, since it deals with actual work and not worrying about getting a paper cut.


----------



## mustangeric (May 22, 2010)

Saltwater Boy(1) said:


> Couple of buddies cleared $100K their first year...imagine lots of over time involved.


Dang thats pretty good money where do i sign up?


----------



## SpecklFinAddict (Dec 19, 2004)

FREON said:


> The original question, that you still haven't answered, is "What do operators do?" Why don't you answer it? :biggrin:


Because you know the answer you OLD fart..between getting up at 0230 and driving to work, making rounds, doing all the required documentation, collecting samples, making adjustments to equipment, prepping equipment for maintenance, filling out permits for the scheduled maintenance, etc......and all this before most people have even had their first cup of morning coffee. 
That is maybe 60% of my job....the other is dreaming up ways to make gas prices g o skyhigh so I can get better stock returns!
I could go on, but we all know haters gonna hate anyway!


----------



## 123456 (Apr 6, 2005)

KJON said:


> Scheduling/planning is everything, if it's your turn for movie night you have to pick ones the others haven't seen, if it's your turn to cook, you'd best not forget the food!!!!. If it's your turn to watch the board while the others sleep,,,,you best not doze off and let the night foreman walk in on you. Make sure the maintenance skeleton crew knows when and not to enter. And always make sure the guy in the tank farm cleans the frogs and rabbits in the field before bringing them in. :dance:


WINNER WINNER SHRIMP DINNER!!!
No maintenance on nights or weekends with us on a normal shift.
In all seriousness, its alot of boredom broke up by short bursts of sheer panic!! LOL!!
We get paid for what we know and experience and like someone else said kinda like babysitting. Sometimes you have to just rub its back a little to get it to go back to sleep but sometimes your up rocking it for hours and still it doesn't come around.


----------



## chumy (Jul 13, 2012)

bigdipper said:


> Just my two cents but..... If an operator is paid all day to make adjustments and sit on his butt and fine tune things. Well it seems to me like the unit must be running good. Otherwise he would be outside troubleshooting and working his butt off. So if he is doing his job well that must mean he works less! To the people who are outside changing valves and what not, the operators prepare that equipment so you can do your job safely. Some people get paid for brains, some get paid for backs.
> 
> Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk 2


I could train my wife (Eventually) to safely block and bleed any piece of equipment.


----------



## Johnboat (Jun 7, 2004)

*Picture of a typical operator*

Homer Simpson on the job.


----------



## SaltH2oAssassin (Jan 25, 2006)

After reading this, I am excited to get into the plants. I graduate this December with my Process Tech degree.


----------



## Gilbert (May 25, 2004)

what it takes to be an operator :slimer:


----------



## Saltwater Boy(1) (Jan 11, 2013)

SaltH2oAssassin said:


> After reading this, I am excited to get into the plants. I graduate this December with my Process Tech degree.


 Congrats buddy! I can not wait to start school in August!


----------



## Mr. Breeze (Jan 6, 2005)

and, they even have their own song....dang...I'm jealous...


----------



## SpecklFinAddict (Dec 19, 2004)

chumy said:


> I could train my wife (Eventually) to safely block and bleed any piece of equipment.


God's Gift...Wal-Mart shoppers, we have a special on God's Gift today on aisle 7!


----------



## 123456 (Apr 6, 2005)

chumy said:


> I could train my wife (Eventually) to safely block and bleed any piece of equipment.


I'd love to call her to turn some of the old valves we have in the plant...hell full grown men have trouble with them.


----------



## chumy (Jul 13, 2012)

FlatoutFishin said:


> Because you know the answer you OLD fart..between getting up at 0230 and driving to work, making rounds, doing all the required documentation, collecting samples, making adjustments to equipment, prepping equipment for maintenance, filling out permits for the scheduled maintenance, etc......and all this before most people have even had their first cup of morning coffee.
> That is maybe 60% of my job....the other is dreaming up ways to make gas prices g o skyhigh so I can get better stock returns!
> I could go on, but we all know haters gonna hate anyway!


This 60% work load is spelled out word for word in procedures that an engineer has written down for you. Am i wrong? Surely I will be.


----------



## chumy (Jul 13, 2012)

NSpannTx said:


> I'd love to call her to turn some of the old valves we have in the plant...hell full grown men have trouble with them.


Get you a torque convertor and save your back!


----------



## 123456 (Apr 6, 2005)

chumy said:


> Get you a torque convertor and save your back!


Still have to break em off seat.


----------



## SpecklFinAddict (Dec 19, 2004)

chumy said:


> This 60% work load is spelled out word for word in procedures that an engineer has written down for you. Am i wrong? Surely I will be.


So, what is your point...I am but a simple operator and do not understand these things you speak of?


----------



## saltwatersensations (Aug 30, 2004)

Engineers know everything.


----------



## jimtexas68 (May 13, 2012)

No one in our industry is over worked with exception to contractors during turnarounds, scaffold builders in the summer months and PB's blinding for turnaround. Process operators do an important job and so does I/E. But very few if any keep their same waist size for many years. Refineries and chemical plant technology have interlocks and engineering controls in place to make them fail safe. Very few I/E although some are fire brigade members and are doing the unnatural act of running towards a fire instead of away from it. Even when fail safe systems shut a unit down, exothermic processes cause real heartburn. Exchanger channelheads seperating and pump seals leaking and both potentially burning just to name a couple. When the **** hits the proverbial fan is when operators really earn their living. It's also our jobs to make sure that doesn't happen very often. I/E plays a critical role in helping troubleshoot and repair critical instruments to help get the unit back to a safe reliable state. 
No as a general rule operators are not physically overworked....and neither are company I/E techs. We are paid for what we know, some examples are a complete logical understanding of process flows and unit limitations, understand all unit operational procedures and emergency shutdown procedures, all safety and environmental policy that effect safe work permitting in live operating units. We not only permit you but all of the other people working around you, understand your job scopes, how they may effect our process and how you may effect each other while you are doing your job. We are responsible for verifying that any change to our process is vetted through a strict management of change process that verifies that what is being installed in our process units are "like in kind replacements" or if it is new technology the MOC process is complete, training and procedures are signed off and complete BEFORE you are issued a permit. We are responsible for bypassing and rerouting process flows to maximize production while critical maintenance is done. We are constantly adapting to change due to feed stock issues, end customer spec changes and corporate or plant level management changes to our processes. We safe out the equipment maintenance works on by deenergizing, decontaminating, locking and documenting isolation points for the maintenance craftsman. We most importantly communicate applicable hazards and issue correct linebreak, safe work, hot work, live electrical, excavation or confined space entry permits that not only verifies the work is safe for the craftsman but also parallels company safety policy. 
I will never say that I/E doesn't play a critical role in plant maintenance. They do, that is one of the biggest reasons why the I/E group still has a healthy group of company craftsman and fewer contractors compaired to the other crafts in the maintenance shop. We along with you take a lot of responsibility at our jobs with the choices we make everyday when it comes to how we operate and troubleshoot process and you with how you troubleshoot and repair instruments. 
To the uneducated eye it would seem at times that operators don't do very much physically. The reason most times is because the physical work to prepare equipment was done on nights so it will reduce maintenance down time getting permits and trying to keep a planned maintenance work schedule. There are times when operators will spend several hours preparing, safing out and permitting a job that will only take the craftsman a few minutes to complete. That is the nature of the job.
All companies have a few employees that for lack of a better term, hit the lottery when they were hired. They lack the mental, mechanical or physical skills to do their job effectively. Unfortunately, there are more of those in operations than in the maintenance crafts it seems. That fault is with the HR reps and folks that choose them out of a large group of potential candidates. Some were hired because they meet a racial or gender mandate that corporations require. Some of these same folks turn into good operators and other white males aren't worth their salt. My point being that you can't judge someones work ethic and give a **** level by their experience or education. You just have to do the best you can at picking the right candidates and if they don't work out have the fortitude to get rid of them. This is the case for operations and maintenance.


----------



## Shaky (May 21, 2004)

Lots of jealous people coming out it seems!

Im not in a big plant, but on the natural gas side, I don't generally get the ot the big guys do, but then again I don't have to climb 80' up in the middle of the night, just a long walk to the piping yard and having to dodge the odd rattlesnake, skunk etc.....

Wouldn't trade it for the world, my only regret is I didn't figure this out until I slaved 15 years trying to make ends meet by working for a small family type business (somebody else's family making the big bucks off my efforts!) I am generally on duty all by myself for the majority of my shifts, so if something goes haywire its my responsibility to fix it and get things running back efficiently and safely.


----------



## FREON (Jun 14, 2005)

:cheers:


jimtexas68 said:


> No one in our industry is over worked with exception to contractors during turnarounds, scaffold builders in the summer months and PB's blinding for turnaround. Process operators do an important job and so does I/E. But very few if any keep their same waist size for many years. Refineries and chemical plant technologie have interlocks and engineering controls in place to make them fail safe. Very few I/E although some are fire brigade members and are doing the unnatural act of running towards a fire instead of away from it. Even when fail safe systems shut a unit down, exothermic processes cause real heartburn. Exchanger channelheads seperating and pump seals leaking and both potentially burning just to name a couple. When the **** hits the proverbial fan is when operators really earn their living. It's also our jobs to make sure that doesn't happen very often. I/E plays a critical role in helping troubleshoot and repair critical instruments to help get the unit back to a safe reliable state.
> No as a general rule operators are not physically overworked....and neither are company I/E techs. We are paid for what we know, some examples are a complete logical understanding of process flows and unit limitations, understand all unit operational procedures and emergency shutdown procedures, all safety and environmental policy that effect safe work permitting in live operating units. We not only permit you but all of the other people working around you, understand your job scopes, how they may effect our process and how you may effect each other while you are doing your job. We are responsible for verifying that any change to our process is vetted through a strict management of change process that verifies that what is being installed in our process units are "like in kind replacements" or if it is new technology the MOC process is complete, training and procedures are signed off and complete BEFORE you are issued a permit. We are responsible for bypassing and rerouting process flows to maximize production while critical maintenance is done. We are constantly adapting to change due to feed stock issues, end customer spec changes and corporate or plant level management changes to our processes. We safe out the equipment maintenance works on by deenergizing, decontaminating, locking and documenting isolation points for the maintenance craftsman. We most importantly communicate applicable hazards and issue correct linebreak, safe work, hot work, live electrical, excavation or confined space entry permits that not only verifys the work is safe for the craftsman but also parallels company safety policy.
> I will never say that I/E doesn't play a critical role in plant maintenance. They do, that is one of the biggest reasons why the I/E group still has a healthy group of company craftsman and fewer contractors compaired to the other crafts in the maintenance shop. We along with you take a lot of responsibility at our jobs with the choices we make everyday when it comes to how we operate and troubleshoot process and you with how you troubleshoot and repair instruments.
> To the uneducated eye it would seem at times that operators don't do very much physically. The reason most times is because the physical work to prepair equipment was done on nights so it will reduce maintenance down time getting permits and trying to keep a planned maintenance work schedule. There are times when operators will spend several hours preparing, safing out and permitting a job that will only take the craftsman a few minutes to complete. That is the nature of the job.
> All companies have a few employees that for lack of a better term, hit the lottery when they were hired. They lack the mental, mechanical or physical skills to do their job effectively. Unfortunately, there are more of those in operations than in the maintenance crafts it seems. That fault is with the HR reps and folks that choose them out of a large group of potential candidates. Some were hired because they meet a racial or gender mandate that corporations require. Some of these same folks turn into good operators and other white males aren't worth their salt. My point being that you can't judge someones work ethic and give a **** level by their experience or education. You just have to do the best you can at picking the right candidates and if they don't work out have the fortitude to get rid of them. This is the case for operations and maintenance.


 Very Good Post :cheers:


----------



## goatchze (Aug 1, 2006)

saltwatersensations said:


> Engineers know everything.


Not true. I'm an engineer, and I apparently know nothing about women. Just ask my wife!:spineyes:


----------



## saltwatersensations (Aug 30, 2004)

goatchze said:


> Not true. I'm an engineer, and I apparently know nothing about women. Just ask my wife!:spineyes:


LOL!


----------



## Bigj (Jul 22, 2007)

mustangeric said:


> Just curious what does the avg. Operator make per yr?


 Depending on overtime were in low 100's to upper 100


----------



## SpecklFinAddict (Dec 19, 2004)

Bigj said:


> Depending on overtime were in low 100's to upper 100


And thats not some bad change for evidently not having to do ****!


----------



## SpecklFinAddict (Dec 19, 2004)

jimtexas68 said:


> No one in our industry is over worked with exception to contractors during turnarounds, scaffold builders in the summer months and PB's blinding for turnaround. Process operators do an important job and so does I/E. But very few if any keep their same waist size for many years. Refineries and chemical plant technology have interlocks and engineering controls in place to make them fail safe. Very few I/E although some are fire brigade members and are doing the unnatural act of running towards a fire instead of away from it. Even when fail safe systems shut a unit down, exothermic processes cause real heartburn. Exchanger channelheads seperating and pump seals leaking and both potentially burning just to name a couple. When the **** hits the proverbial fan is when operators really earn their living. It's also our jobs to make sure that doesn't happen very often. I/E plays a critical role in helping troubleshoot and repair critical instruments to help get the unit back to a safe reliable state.
> No as a general rule operators are not physically overworked....and neither are company I/E techs. We are paid for what we know, some examples are a complete logical understanding of process flows and unit limitations, understand all unit operational procedures and emergency shutdown procedures, all safety and environmental policy that effect safe work permitting in live operating units. We not only permit you but all of the other people working around you, understand your job scopes, how they may effect our process and how you may effect each other while you are doing your job. We are responsible for verifying that any change to our process is vetted through a strict management of change process that verifies that what is being installed in our process units are "like in kind replacements" or if it is new technology the MOC process is complete, training and procedures are signed off and complete BEFORE you are issued a permit. We are responsible for bypassing and rerouting process flows to maximize production while critical maintenance is done. We are constantly adapting to change due to feed stock issues, end customer spec changes and corporate or plant level management changes to our processes. We safe out the equipment maintenance works on by deenergizing, decontaminating, locking and documenting isolation points for the maintenance craftsman. We most importantly communicate applicable hazards and issue correct linebreak, safe work, hot work, live electrical, excavation or confined space entry permits that not only verifies the work is safe for the craftsman but also parallels company safety policy.
> I will never say that I/E doesn't play a critical role in plant maintenance. They do, that is one of the biggest reasons why the I/E group still has a healthy group of company craftsman and fewer contractors compaired to the other crafts in the maintenance shop. We along with you take a lot of responsibility at our jobs with the choices we make everyday when it comes to how we operate and troubleshoot process and you with how you troubleshoot and repair instruments.
> To the uneducated eye it would seem at times that operators don't do very much physically. The reason most times is because the physical work to prepare equipment was done on nights so it will reduce maintenance down time getting permits and trying to keep a planned maintenance work schedule. There are times when operators will spend several hours preparing, safing out and permitting a job that will only take the craftsman a few minutes to complete. That is the nature of the job.
> All companies have a few employees that for lack of a better term, hit the lottery when they were hired. They lack the mental, mechanical or physical skills to do their job effectively. Unfortunately, there are more of those in operations than in the maintenance crafts it seems. That fault is with the HR reps and folks that choose them out of a large group of potential candidates. Some were hired because they meet a racial or gender mandate that corporations require. Some of these same folks turn into good operators and other white males aren't worth their salt. My point being that you can't judge someones work ethic and give a **** level by their experience or education. You just have to do the best you can at picking the right candidates and if they don't work out have the fortitude to get rid of them. This is the case for operations and maintenance.


And...What he said!


----------



## saltwatersensations (Aug 30, 2004)

FlatoutFishin said:


> And thats not some bad change for evidently not having to do ****!


You're right but not enough money to have to miss your kids be kids.


----------



## Bigj (Jul 22, 2007)

FlatoutFishin said:


> And thats not some bad change for evidently not having to do ****!


 You be suprised on what we have to do and deal with its not all fun and games when things happen around your ears


----------



## McDaniel8402 (Dec 7, 2011)

One of the coolest operations jobs i ever worked was O&M for a windfarm company. The farm was under warranty, so the manufacturer had a small army of techs on site do warranty repair. The techs for the owner company (myself and 7 or 8 others) had to do general maintenance on the wind farm (road work, contractor safety audits, etc). Personanlly, i was responsible for performing/coordination high voltage electrical work, operating the substation (345kV / 34.5kV). Paid pretty good. Excellent benefits. Generally a relaxed environment. I would highly recommend it to people looking for a tech job.


----------



## Bigj (Jul 22, 2007)

saltwatersensations said:


> You're right but not enough money to have to miss your kids be kids.


well said I'v seen mine grow up and leave and just now getting ti know them.


----------



## SpecklFinAddict (Dec 19, 2004)

Bigj said:


> You be suprised on what we have to do and deal with its not all fun and games when things happen around your ears


I was joking!


----------



## jimtexas68 (May 13, 2012)

rc10j1 said:


> Normally the inspection department found it. You turned a valve and then the contractor did the dangerous part of installing the blinds. Didn't say your job was 100% safe, but it is nowhere near the most dangerous job in the plant.


You are wrong. Inspectors do their jobs after piping has been cleared, locked, blinded unless they are doing their routine pipe inspections and randomly find a thin spot. What you may mean is a VOC tech possibly found a leak at a flange or valve packing while doing their job. VOC (Volitile Organic Compound) companies are hired by process companies to meet the state and federal mandate to track and verify all emission sources, document and report findings that the production company must self report, and verify that these leaks have been repaired within the legal time frame set my the EPA.


----------



## Johnboat (Jun 7, 2004)

*Hey, it a good job*

Heck, all a pilot or astronaut does is sit there and read instruments and push some buttons too.


----------



## Bigj (Jul 22, 2007)

I'm in a Sulfruric Acid plant you darn sure dont wont to screwup here you will pay the toll.............


----------



## SpecklFinAddict (Dec 19, 2004)

saltwatersensations said:


> You're right but not enough money to have to miss your kids be kids.


In a perfect world...I'd work half a year, or less. Do you even know what you're talking about? It's still better than many jobs out there in that aspect.


----------



## saltwatersensations (Aug 30, 2004)

FlatoutFishin said:


> In a perfect world...I'd work half a year, or less. Do you even know what you're talking about? It's still better than many jobs out there in that aspect.


Yes I know what I am talking about. My pops has been an operator for 30 plus years. And I cant count how many Christmas's birthday parties, thanksgivings etc that he has missed by being an operator. It did provide a good living for our large family. He is 70 years old and still works shift. Not saying its a bad job at all. But if you have to miss out on a whole lot of family life it better pay good money. Otherwise its not worth what you miss. Next.....


----------



## Gilbert (May 25, 2004)

saltwatersensations said:


> Yes I know what I am talking about. My pops has been an operator for 30 plus years. *And I cant count* how many Christmas's birthday parties, thanksgivings etc that he has missed by being an operator. It did provide a good living for our large family. He is 70 years old and still works shift. Not saying its a bad job at all. But if you have to miss out on a whole lot of family life it better pay good money. Otherwise its not worth what you miss. Next.....


looks like it took a toll on your education as well if you can't count to as least 30.


----------



## Brute (Apr 29, 2009)

There all kinds of operators... not just plant operators.



dieselmaker said:


> They dont pay us the rate they do for the time we get on 2cool. They pay us this much for when its upside down and on fire! An operator for the most part is a baby sitter. If the process is running good we moniter and get readings to keep it that way. If it gets off spec or upset then we go to work to fix it. It can get spooky at times but thats were training and experiance come in. And if it gets too bad shut it down and run like hell!
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2


Agree 100% except for two things:

_If it gets off spec or upset then we *call some one* to fix it._

_And if it gets too bad...... run like hell!_


----------



## jimtexas68 (May 13, 2012)

chumy said:


> This 60% work load is spelled out word for word in procedures that an engineer has written down for you. Am i wrong? Surely I will be.


This isn't correct either. Engineering documents, P&ID's and spec sheets are archived usually in our engineering library and maintenance library. Operational procedures are written by operations specialists that are very experienced. They have a knack for being able to decode and extrapulate the needed information out of engineering documents and create an effective operations procedure. Engineers love minute details that are very informative but wash out the effective purpose of a task specific procedure. As a general rule "keep it kissable" and include only important points. If an engineer were required to write all procedures, ops would go old school during an emergency because they don't have time to wheel through all of the wasted tree's to get to the critical points.

Engineering procedure writing= very bad idea.


----------



## SpecklFinAddict (Dec 19, 2004)

saltwatersensations said:


> Yes I know what I am talking about. My pops has been an operator for 30 plus years. And I cant count how many Christmas's birthday parties, thanksgivings etc that he has missed by being an operator. It did provide a good living for our large family. He is 70 years old and still works shift. Not saying its a bad job at all. But if you have to miss out on a whole lot of family life it better pay good money. Otherwise its not worth what you miss. Next.....


You work around it and deal...for every Christmas Day...I had a long change or vacation. Thats 7 to 1 and I like those odds. We all make sacrifices.
Not knocking you doing what you believe is right...but dont knock me and others for doing what we do!


----------



## Gilbert (May 25, 2004)

FlatoutFishin said:


> You work around it and deal...for every Christmas Day...I had a long change or vacation. Thats 7 to 1 and I like those odds. We all make sacrifices.
> Not knocking you doing what you believe is right...but dont knock me and others for doing what we do!


someones gotta do it and who better than those at rock bottom  :brew2:


----------



## Bigj (Jul 22, 2007)

31 years here have 5 more to go


----------



## SpecklFinAddict (Dec 19, 2004)

Gilbert said:


> someones gotta do it and who better than those at rock bottom  :brew2:


I still can make a better pot of beans than you....so not completely rock bottom!


----------



## Texican89 (Oct 27, 2009)

Do waste water treatment plants count?


----------



## jimtexas68 (May 13, 2012)

Texican89 said:


> Do waste water treatment plants count?


Yes, you just don't get to eat breakfast until about thirty minutes after we do. :spineyes:


----------



## Tortuga (May 21, 2004)

Gilbert said:


> what it takes to be an operator :slimer:





Gilbert said:


> looks like it took a toll on your education as well if you can't count to as least 30.





Gilbert said:


> someones gotta do it and who better than those at rock bottom  :brew2:


Ghilley...I honestly don't know what field of work you are in...but I think it is safe to say...it is not in 'Public Relations'.......:rotfl:


----------



## jimtexas68 (May 13, 2012)

Tortuga said:


> Ghilley...I honestly don't know what field of work you are in...but I think it is safe to say...it is not in 'Public Relations'.......:rotfl:


 He's probably a security guard at one of these facilities checking for "something new" under truck hoods making 30k a year. Not that theres anything wrong with that.


----------



## Gilbert (May 25, 2004)

jimtexas68 said:


> He's probably a security guard at one of these facilities checking for "something new" under truck hoods making 30k a year. Not that theres anything wrong with that.


^^^^
proof that operators don't need to be smart with stupid post like this


----------



## Kenner21 (Aug 25, 2005)

Birthdays smirthdays, if I want to go on vacation I pick up 6 or 7 days of OT and go. Shift work does have it cons but its has plenty or pros, fishing on week days Is a huge one for me.


----------



## Saltwater Boy(1) (Jan 11, 2013)

Kenner21 said:


> Birthdays smirthdays, if I want to go on vacation I pick up 6 or 7 days of OT and go. Shift work does have it cons but its has plenty or pros, fishing on week days Is a huge one for me.


 I'll throw an Amen out there for that!


----------



## jimtexas68 (May 13, 2012)

Gilbert said:


> ^^^^
> proof that operators don't need to be smart with stupid post like this


Then out with it high speed....what do you do?


----------



## FREON (Jun 14, 2005)

He mows the yards of the security guards........


----------



## Bird (May 10, 2005)

After filtering through all the BS in this thread, there are some good answers. Every job has its good days and bad days whether you are an operator or a banker. Some fly by and others will stress you half to death (assuming it doesn't actually kill you). While most of the operators on here like to joke about having bruises on their heels from putting their feet up, what they haven't talked about is knowing 1000's of valve/safety/transmitter locations, miles of piping, what goes where and more importantly, just how much to turn that valve depending on the problem trying to be corrected. This is day or night, good weather or bad weather, on the ground or maybe 200' up a distallation column. That's just the outside part of the job. At my plant, we rotate being inside and outside operators. When you get inside on the board, you get to learn umpteen different equipment pages on screen, hundreds of tag numbers, is that a split range controller or is it a high select, low select? How much input do I put on that controller? Depends on the valve tuning, size of the valve, will this product auto ignite if I throttle this valve too fast (hydrogen will). At our plant it takes at least 2 years to get pretty comfortable in or out. You will not ever learn everything about a unit. Get complacent and it will humble you, or worse. Safety systems and internal controls don't always work. That manual block valve might not turn. That safety might not lift. Well I gotta go, my turn to cook... :wink:


----------



## Range Coach (May 8, 2012)

I run the maintenance department in a batch plant where the operators are constantly "doing" something. Our batches run anywhere from 5,000 to 15,000 gallons of product and the operators are really more like cooks. They have to add the right amount of raw product, in the right order, at the right time, all while maintaining the proper "cooking temperatures" for exothermic or endothermic reactions. They are also "transfer technicians" and are responsible for the proper redirect of raw and finished materials. Even though we have a state-of-the-art DCS system, we still require our operators to visually inspect and verify that the appropriate valve(s) are open, meters are operational, pumps are running, etc. If something requires the attention of my group, the operators are the first line eyes and ears for us. Our operators will make the call for if/when to stop a process after a criticality and safety inspection is done. Once the process is stopped (safely), my group, with a senior operator watching, will "make safe" by doing the blocking and bleeding, blinding, lock out/tag out, etc. The mechanics do this themselves so that they are the ones in control of the safety devices. Once deemed safe, the senior operator will check the area/unit/system, etc. to make sure that the one thing that could bite you in the arse is not overlooked....they help to ensure that we are working safely. This might be different than how things are done in a process plant, but it's garnered us repeated OSHA VPP Star worksite awards. In short, they help us to help them stay safe.

We require our operators to keep their work area clean, orderly and free of slip/trip hazards. They also perform small maintenance tasks such as adjusting (not calibrating) valves, meters, sensors, tightening low pressure connections, etc. They work 8 or 12 hour shifts, depending on shift change, in process units that, in the middle of August, average 110-130 degrees. For as good as they are, I would not go to the bar and have a drink with them after a 12 hour shift in the summer....they stink!

Gotta go....dang operator just broke a limit switch on a pressure vessel. Maybe the "NO STEP" sign wasn't big enough.


----------



## Too Tall (May 21, 2004)

Range Coach said:


> Maybe the "NO STEP" sign wasn't big enough.


a cover works better than a sign.


----------



## Brute (Apr 29, 2009)

Come be an oil and gas operator with 10-15k ppm H2S. All that seperates you from life and death is a couple feet and and little deal that goes Beep! Beep!


----------



## Range Coach (May 8, 2012)

Too Tall said:


> a cover works better than a sign.


They'll just trip over it.:headknock


----------



## sweenyite (Feb 22, 2009)

chumy said:


> Operators carry channel-locks. They tighten stuff when it leaks and beat the hell out of instruments when they don't read right. Then they call me to come fix the instrument.


 It is called "massaging".


----------



## sweenyite (Feb 22, 2009)

Tortuga said:


> Got a question for all the 'Operators' here on 2cool...and there seem to be a lot of them. What exactly does an Operator do ??..
> 
> From looking at all the posts and times posted...seems like they must just glance at a few gauges from time to time and then click back onto 2cool for a few hours.:biggrin:
> 
> ...


 We keep the gasoline and diesel in supply for your vehicles. We keep the chemicals in supply to manufacture the products you use everyday and never really consider where they come from. If you look around you right now, I bet you see something made of plastic. The products that operators produce are found in everything from chewing gum to jet fuel. We are paid well to do a sometimes dangerous job, rain or shine, day and night. If there were no operators, Welcome back to the stone age.
Shift work isn't for everyone but you adjust. My kids have never complained when we had to do Christmas a day early. You learn to make the ballgames and plays and recitals that you can and miss the rest. It helps to have a good wife that can make those kids stay quiet when dad is working graveyards... 
It is a job that requires intelligence and common sense. You don't have someone standing over you making sure you start up that turbine correctly or make the right lineups. You carry a lot of responsibility and you don't want to be the guy that got someone hurt. I think that is one of every operators worst fears, that they got their coworker hurt. Everything out here can hurt you or kill you. You have to respect it. This ain't McDonalds or Wal-Mart. You don't always get to forget your mistakes.
Aside from that, it is a very rewarding career if it fits you. Not only is the money good, that 7 days in a row off once a month is nice. Take four days of vacation at the beginning or end and you end up off for two weeks for four days vacation. Different strokes for different folks, I like it.


----------



## saltwatersensations (Aug 30, 2004)

FlatoutFishin said:


> You work around it and deal...for every Christmas Day...I had a long change or vacation. Thats 7 to 1 and I like those odds. We all make sacrifices.
> Not knocking you doing what you believe is right...but dont knock me and others for doing what we do!


I never knocked it. Ever. I may personally give you **** on the other place. But in all seriousness its a good job with good pay. Who knows I may end up in one of those places. Turned down a job at Dow chemical Freeport last year. They wanted to hire me on the spot. I thought about the schedule and drive and denied. Thanks for doing what you do big guy. :slimer: We build combustion analyzers and sample systems all day long at my office. You may or may not have them at your place..If you do you probably screw them up and call for help.


----------



## saltwatersensations (Aug 30, 2004)

Gilbert said:


> looks like it took a toll on your education as well if you can't count to as least 30.


You are retarded. :headknock


----------



## C.Hern5972 (Jul 17, 2009)

awesome thread


----------



## urdady1 (Mar 25, 2012)

supervisor came in to the control room and looked at my coworker funny because he had his feet on the desk. my coworker said what.... if my feet are on the desk this company is making money... supervisor acknowledged, shrugged his shoulders and went back to his office.


----------



## SpecklFinAddict (Dec 19, 2004)

C.Hern5972 said:


> awesome thread


There are no awesome threads...just awesome operators who reply to them!


----------



## whalerguy28 (Jun 3, 2009)

sweenyite said:


> We keep the gasoline and diesel in supply for your vehicles. We keep the chemicals in supply to manufacture the products you use everyday and never really consider where they come from. If you look around you right now, I bet you see something made of plastic. The products that operators produce are found in everything from chewing gum to jet fuel. We are paid well to do a sometimes dangerous job, rain or shine, day and night. If there were no operators, Welcome back to the stone age.
> Shift work isn't for everyone but you adjust. My kids have never complained when we had to do Christmas a day early. You learn to make the ballgames and plays and recitals that you can and miss the rest. It helps to have a good wife that can make those kids stay quiet when dad is working graveyards...
> It is a job that requires intelligence and common sense. You don't have someone standing over you making sure you start up that turbine correctly or make the right lineups. You carry a lot of responsibility and you don't want to be the guy that got someone hurt. I think that is one of every operators worst fears, that they got their coworker hurt. Everything out here can hurt you or kill you. You have to respect it. This ain't McDonalds or Wal-Mart. You don't always get to forget your mistakes.
> Aside from that, it is a very rewarding career if it fits you. Not only is the money good, that 7 days in a row off once a month is nice. Take four days of vacation at the beginning or end and you end up off for two weeks for four days vacation. Different strokes for different folks, I like it.


Good post!!!


----------



## oldriver88 (May 5, 2008)

*Great!!!*

Great!!!!!!:dance:



FlatoutFishin said:


> There are no awesome threads...just awesome operators who reply to them!


----------



## oldriver88 (May 5, 2008)

*Ha*

One of my jobs today as an operator was to show an engineer how to start a pump and use Snoop. :spineyes:


----------



## Too Tall (May 21, 2004)

oldriver88 said:


> One of my jobs today as an operator was to show an engineer how to start a pump and use Snoop. :spineyes:


that old push button is a tricky thing for them to grasp.


----------



## texacajun (May 2, 2005)

Don't quite understand the hating from the haters. Were it not for us they wouldn't have jobs, or fuel to get them to the job, or products that built the car. 

There are some operators who treat contractors poorly, and I greatly frown on that practice, maybe the 2 guys crying about operators are products of being mistreated? Who knows, but our job as operators is quite extensive if you ask me.

Tortuga, in a nutshell, as operators we keep the plants running to produce products, fuels, lubricants, etc to keep the world turning. Without us, as someone else has mentioned, welcome to the stone age. We are like the grunts of combat elements, the last defense to prevent catastrophic events, and yes a well paid monitor of all associated equipment. 

I like my job, my company, and most of the people I work with; company and contractors. However, you do tend to run into the opinionated contractor who, when its all said and done, is merely jealous of the position.

This industry has provided me with a comfortable life overall. I think it is a good field, dangerour, but a good field to be in. My son has even followed my footsteps. I guess it's all in how you choose to look at things...the glass half empty, or the glass half full. It regards to my job and my lifestyle, the glass is half full!

Mike


----------



## ningapleeze (Mar 18, 2013)

oldriver88 said:


> One of my jobs today as an operator was to show an engineer how to start a pump and use Snoop. :spineyes:


I had an Operator stop by my office and complain about a Sample Point that was located on the Top platform of a De-Methanzer.....about 90' Up. He stated that it was not an easy climb up, especially when it was Cold and Windy. He told me there were 4 Samplers located at Grade, and if it were him, he would put all the Sample Points together to make it easier on the Operators.

I thought it was a great idea. Operators make my day. So, the next Turnaround, I had the Instrument Fitter's move all the sample points to the top of the De-Methanizer just as requested.

One thing about Engineers that Operators need to remember:

You will always work for the them, and they will never work for you.


----------



## texacajun (May 2, 2005)

ningapleeze said:


> I had an Operator stop by my office and complain about a Sample Point that was located on the Top platform of a De-Methanzer.....about 90' Up. He stated that it was not an easy climb up, especially when it was Cold and Windy. He told me there were 4 Samplers located at Grade, and if it were him, he would put all the Sample Points together to make it easier on the Operators.
> 
> I thought it was a great idea. Operators make my day. So, the next Turnaround, I had the Instrument Fitter's move all the sample points to the top of the De-Methanizer just as requested.
> 
> ...


Well glad you won the pecker measuring contest, do you feel better? So instead of keeping the operators out of harms way and minimizing risk by having them climb so high, you use your position to create risk instead of streamlining and reducing risk.....good call Capt Worktogether.

One thing about operators that Engineers need to remember: We are a team working together for a common goal of the company. Guess you missed the "Works Well With Others" course!:wink:

Mike


----------



## C.Hern5972 (Jul 17, 2009)

Well said Cajun

Douche move for sure


----------



## roundman (May 21, 2004)

oldriver88 said:


> One of my jobs today as an operator was to show an engineer how to start a pump and use Snoop. :spineyes:


he probably went and checked to see if you were on the up and up with him too!,lol http://www.snopes.com/


----------



## redexpress (Apr 5, 2010)

Well walkinjack I was probably in the old Shell BA plant control room with you. My shift coworkers were: Pistol Derringer, scab Kimbrell, Hicks, Grau, and Lonsdale as the foreman. That's where I started as an Operator (gauger)in 1974. Best job out there! On weekends I was in charge of the ethyl alcohol tanks. 199 proof. Mixed well with anything!! Used to go visit with old Red Palmer before his control room exploded during that flood and they put him in the tool room. How many Operators did we lose in that one, 2 or 3? I missed the Chevron Hawaii explosion. But that one took a friend of mine from the Navy reserves. And I fought that fire at VCM plant.
I guess that explains why I spent the next 30 years at Shell in Maintenance!! Ended up at Olefins as Mechanical Specialist.
I'll PM you.


----------



## Too Tall (May 21, 2004)

texacajun said:


> Well glad you won the pecker measuring contest, do you feel better? So instead of keeping the operators out of harms way and minimizing risk by having them climb so high, you use your position to create risk instead of streamlining and reducing risk.....good call Capt Worktogether.
> 
> One thing about operators that Engineers need to remember: We are a team working together for a common goal of the company. Guess you missed the "Works Well With Others" course!:wink:
> 
> Mike


Mike it was BS. Even an engineer isn't that stupid. Beside it would take approval higher than his and would have been scrapped there. Its just a fantasy in his mind. Some operator probably told him that you could tell the difference in metals by smelling them. :wink:


----------



## Too Tall (May 21, 2004)

redexpress said:


> Well walkinjack I was probably in the old Shell BA plant control room with you. My shift coworkers were: Pistol Derringer, scab Kimbrell, Hicks, Grau, and Lonsdale as the foreman. That's where I started as an Operator (gauger)in 1974. Best job out there! On weekends I was in charge of the ethyl alcohol tanks. 199 proof. Mixed well with anything!! Used to go visit with old Red Palmer before his control room exploded during that flood and they put him in the tool room. How many Operators did we lose in that one, 2 or 3? I missed the Chevron Hawaii explosion. But that one took a friend of mine from the Navy reserves. And I fought that fire at VCM plant.
> I guess that explains why I spent the next 30 years at Shell in Maintenance!! Ended up at Olefins as Mechanical Specialist.
> I'll PM you.


Its all gone now. Got bulldozed a few years ago. The only thing left is the weigh room


----------



## Navi (Jun 2, 2009)

chumy said:


> This 60% work load is spelled out word for word in procedures that an engineer, *which has no clue what he is doing, although he has a degree so management listens to him*, has written down for you *after grilling the senior operator for knowledge of how its actually done*. Am i wrong? Surely I will be.


No, looks about right to me, little bit of a run on sentence but most engineers tend to talk too much anyway ........:brew2:


----------



## gater (May 25, 2004)

*Operators*

Operators on 2cool at work, with so many operators you can do trouble shooting, share lessons learned, find new recipes to cook for your co-workers, decide whether to sell that ****ty company stock, decide whether or not to bring the boat to work so you can get an early start off of nights, you see, the benefits of 2cool to an operator are endless.........I could go on but I have some reels to clean.









Gater


----------



## gater (May 25, 2004)

*Engineers*



texacajun said:


> Well glad you won the pecker measuring contest, do you feel better? So instead of keeping the operators out of harms way and minimizing risk by having them climb so high, you use your position to create risk instead of streamlining and reducing risk.....good call Capt Worktogether.
> 
> One thing about operators that Engineers need to remember: We are a team working together for a common goal of the company. Guess you missed the "Works Well With Others" course!:wink:
> 
> Mike


Cajun, when it comes to engineers, you can't fix stupid and they don't teach people skills or common sense in college..... hwell:

Gater


----------



## TXShooter (Aug 13, 2007)

This thread is all over the place.

I've been an Operator for 30 years. If you know your stuff and are a hard worker, you are very valuable to the company.


----------



## GeauxGet'Er (Jul 15, 2011)

oldriver88 said:


> One of my jobs today as an operator was to show an engineer how to start a pump and use Snoop. :spineyes:


Hey, thanks for showing me how to start that pump today. I just see it in the specs and books, but never in "real life," they look so darn differerent than i imagined. Makes me wonder why they pay us engineers the big bucks sitting in the offices all day pushing paperwork :spineyes:


----------



## redexpress (Apr 5, 2010)

You guys have it made these days. We couldn't get caught with a newspaper, magazine, or anything. Of course no internet....heck they hadn't invented a personal computer yet!! 
Now, one of y'all go outside and do a visual on the unit! I need those pension checks. lol
Best to all of you. You make a lot sacrifices to earn a decent living.


----------



## ningapleeze (Mar 18, 2013)

gater said:


> Cajun, when it comes to engineers, you can't fix stupid and they don't teach people skills or common sense in college..... hwell:
> 
> Gater


You sound Bothered....are you OK?


----------



## sweenyite (Feb 22, 2009)

ningapleeze said:


> You sound Bothered....are you OK?


 Are you? Maybe you're jealous because Tortuga didn't ask what process engineers do. That's right... no one cares! :slimer:


----------



## Bird (May 10, 2005)

Operators are like an insurance policy for the company. They pay us and they pay us and all it seems like we do is sit, but when something happens to the plant, they expect to cash in on their "policy" to take care of things. I've missed the last 8 of 10 Christmases. As my plant manager says, "operators don't get holidays, just days they are paid more than others..."


----------



## bubbas kenner (Sep 4, 2010)

He asked what we do,well its endless it would be a long drawn out reply.Keeping it in the pipes being safe is priority one.


----------



## Kenner21 (Aug 25, 2005)

sweenyite said:


> Are you? Maybe you're jealous because Tortuga didn't ask what process engineers do. That's right... no one cares! :slimer:


Everyone knows they find new and more creative ways to throw units off-test


----------



## TXShooter (Aug 13, 2007)

GeauxGet'Er said:


> Hey, thanks for showing me how to start that pump today. I just see it in the specs and books, but never in "real life," they look so darn differerent than i imagined. Makes me wonder why they pay us engineers the big bucks sitting in the offices all day pushing paperwork :spineyes:


In the plants I've worked in the Operators usually bring home more per year vs an engineer, after the OT.


----------



## jimtexas68 (May 13, 2012)

ningapleeze said:


> I had an Operator stop by my office and complain about a Sample Point that was located on the Top platform of a De-Methanzer.....about 90' Up. He stated that it was not an easy climb up, especially when it was Cold and Windy. He told me there were 4 Samplers located at Grade, and if it were him, he would put all the Sample Points together to make it easier on the Operators.
> 
> I thought it was a great idea. Operators make my day. So, the next Turnaround, I had the Instrument Fitter's move all the sample points to the top of the De-Methanizer just as requested.
> 
> ...


I would have told you to kiss my foot when you needed my signature on your PSSR. When you get run off in the future (and you will) for stuff like that, realize we will see droves of engineers role through your job in our careers. Take some advise and learn to work with us because you sure don't want us working against you or you will not last long. That's 22 years in the industry giving you some advise....you need to take it.


----------



## ningapleeze (Mar 18, 2013)

jimtexas68 said:


> I would have told you to kiss my foot when you needed my signature on your PSSR. You see friend....you do work for us. When you get run off in the future (and you will) for stuff like that, we will see droves of penis envious engineers role through your job in our careers. Take some advise and learn to work with us because you sure don't want us working against you or you will not last long. That's 22 years in the industry giving you some advise....you need to take it.


Haven't worked behind the Locked Gates in over 20 years. I only deal with the person who signs the AFE, Plant Manager, or his Boss.

26 years in the business, and your advise is not needed.

Hope you can get over being Bothered


----------



## WGA1 (Mar 1, 2012)

> You will always work for the them, and they will never work for you.


This is indeed a fact. Shortly after joining the rat race years ago I saw the light and always wished I had pursued an engineering degree. What I have never understood though is the arrogance that often (but not always) accompanies the degree. I recall years ago I interviewed for a job and the person giving the interview was a P.E. Throughout the interview she made several references to perks and benefits at the department. Catch was after each described perk she would then inform me that only the engineers got those perks. At the end of the interview I wanted to make sure that she knew that I understood I was not an engineer and that I would not be receiving the perks, but I was young and respectful...back then. I use to believe that people working in a department, or office, or whatever would be on the same team but its just not so. At my job anytime an office person feels like going home and kicking the dog they just find a field person instead. The field people are the mules of the department and are treated as such. Its an example of the tail wagging the dog. Human nature is odd, for some reason many people feel the need to raise their own level of self value by demoralizing others. When I meet such people it does not impress me. If you really want to do something important go out and start a business. Become financially independent and make money the smart way and not by an earned income. Anyone can join the rat race and get a job. Off topic, sorry.


----------



## Back Bay boy (Apr 7, 2010)

I know plants are diferent as is ours. The only computers that we have are to scale in and out trucks loading. We have laser gauges that you can not trust. We are the Flintstones of plants. Quit winning we will get you your permit when we are done with our stuff go do your JSA...lol


----------



## texacajun (May 2, 2005)

ningapleeze said:


> Haven't worked behind the Locked Gates in over 20 years. *I only deal with the person who signs the AFE, Plant Manager, or his Boss.*
> 
> 26 years in the business, and your advise is not needed.
> 
> Hope you can get over being Bothered


Pffffft! Yessa massah!!! Can I get yo car massah?

Nor is your advice needed here. Pack sand....*SIR*! I know none of us lowlife scumbag operators rate to be in your world. Perhaps someday when you come down from the almighty high we might be able to better socialize.

Mike


----------



## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

texacajun said:


> Pffffft! Yessa massah!!! Can I get yo car massah?
> 
> Nor is your advice needed here. Pack sand....*SIR*! I know none of us lowlife scumbag operators rate to be in your world. Perhaps someday when you come down from the almighty high we might be able to better socialize.
> 
> Mike


You ever seen one of those operators handle a tray with BBQ sauce on the side bro??? :slimer: :rotfl:


----------



## Back Bay boy (Apr 7, 2010)

texacajun said:


> Pffffft! Yessa massah!!! Can I get yo car massah?
> 
> Nor is your advice needed here. Pack sand....*SIR*! I know none of us lowlife scumbag operators rate to be in your world. Perhaps someday when you come down from the almighty high we might be able to better socialize.
> 
> Mike


The engineers are the guys who are usually the overeducated folks who solve operaters problems from there desk cities away Like the engineer who came up with a mechanical seal to replace packing glands on the pumps so to stop leaking. We have buckets under all those 10k mechanical seals that leak..


----------



## jimtexas68 (May 13, 2012)

ningapleeze said:


> Haven't worked behind the Locked Gates in over 20 years. I only deal with the person who signs the AFE, Plant Manager, or his Boss.
> 
> 26 years in the business, and your advise is not needed.
> 
> Hope you can get over being Bothered


If those are the people that you deal with than it's the operators fault for not making it an "A" action item on your pre start up safety review to move the sample point. If there is a true purpose for the point needing to be there for an engineering reason than that's understandable. But by your statement you're just being an *******. In the refinery I work in, I wouldn't even have to say anything about it. Our complex managers or superintendents would squelch that ****.

Trust me when I say, you don't bother me, unless you drink the last cup of coffee and feel you're to uppity to make another pot. The truth is, I think your lying about vindictively moving all of the sample points. If it's really true than you sir are a grade A douche nozzle.


----------



## oldriver88 (May 5, 2008)

Douch nozzle!!!!!!!!


----------



## jimtexas68 (May 13, 2012)

Back Bay boy said:


> The engineers are the guys who are usually the overeducated folks who solve operaters problems from there desk cities away Like the engineer who came up with a mechanical seal to replace packing glands on the pumps so to stop leaking. We have buckets under all those 10k mechanical seals that leak..


True. They're just ****** that they didn't learn to dollar cost average those student loans into their pay grade. I have a lot of respect for good engineers that listen. This cat seems to think his **** doesn't stink. Besides, if it's been 20 years since he's worked behind the "locked gates" how did a poor lowly operator climb that ivory tower of yours to request that you move his sample point?


----------



## HarborHustler (Nov 30, 2011)

chumy said:


> Operators carry channel-locks. They tighten stuff when it leaks and beat the hell out of instruments when they don't read right. Then they call me to come fix the instrument.


i thinks we do the same thing!


----------



## BretE (Jan 24, 2008)

GeauxGet'Er said:


> Hey, thanks for showing me how to start that pump today. I just see it in the specs and books, but never in "real life," they look so darn differerent than i imagined. Makes me wonder why they pay us engineers the big bucks sitting in the offices all day pushing paperwork :spineyes:


LMAO......How much did you make last year?.......big bucks.....LOL


----------



## bubbas kenner (Sep 4, 2010)

He asks us what we do, its too much to list but the main thing we do is be safe all the time.


----------



## fattyflattie (May 20, 2008)

This thread brings out the lulz. What a bunch of idiot engineers with their stupid overpriced degrees, cant even figure out a switch. A push button swich...and dont get me started on the sky hook.

Should have saved their money and went to Jr. College like the LITERALLY every one of the operators I've had the pleasure of knowing. Come to think of it, the company I work for has about 20 executive management folks with engineering degrees, none I can think of with, well whatever they studied in the operations dept. I wonder if maybe they had bigger plans in life than working 90 hours a week for the next 30 years, stupid engineers.

I also love the "make the world go round" attitude. Wonder what you'd be operating if that idiot engineer didnt figure out how to get the oil out the ground and to your plant. Makes you think, chicken or egg?

I dont ever agree with NingaPleeze, but he was correct, operators will always be working for the engineers/mgt, and it will never be the other way around. I really think half the attitude comes from having to do what stupid engineers half your age are telling you to do. Like they say, "sometimes we need brains, sometimes backs". This is no way specific to the "plant" industry. I'm in OG and its the same exact way. Operations is always right, and the stupid engineers/proj. mgt that have somehow figured to keep everyone paid, is wrong again. 

I will concede it pays better than what most engineers make for the first 10 years or so, but thats part of playing the long game. The next 20 years, not so much. 

I have quite a few friends I went to high school with that were "operators" at DOW/BASF/etc when I came beack from college so please dont take this as a bashing. Think of it as perspective from engineers/mgt. Funny though, none of them had this high and mighty attitude, guess they were still too green.


----------



## SpecklFinAddict (Dec 19, 2004)

My operator perspective... All it is, is common respect....there are engineers I respect highly and some I don't. Operators I wouldn't give you .02 for, and some I'd take their advice over any engineer. Everyone has a job, but when you start believing you are better than the next....you need only look in the mirror for the real flaw!


----------



## texacajun (May 2, 2005)

FlatoutFishin said:


> My operator perspective... All it is, is common respect....there are engineers I respect highly and some I don't. Operators I wouldn't give you .02 for, and some I'd take their advice over any engineer. Everyone has a job, but when you start believing you are better than the next....you need only look in the mirror for the real flaw!


Werd!

I'd give .02 for you bro.

Mike


----------



## SpecklFinAddict (Dec 19, 2004)

texacajun said:


> Werd!
> 
> I'd give .02 for you bro.
> 
> Mike


Thanks Mike and like wise...between you, my wife, and my dog...I'm up to .06!


----------



## sweenyite (Feb 22, 2009)

fattyflattie said:


> This thread brings out the lulz. What a bunch of idiot engineers with their stupid overpriced degrees, cant even figure out a switch. A push button swich...and dont get me started on the sky hook.
> 
> Should have saved their money and went to Jr. College like the LITERALLY every one of the operators I've had the pleasure of knowing. Come to think of it, the company I work for has about 20 executive management folks with engineering degrees, none I can think of with, well whatever they studied in the operations dept. I wonder if maybe they had bigger plans in life than working 90 hours a week for the next 30 years, stupid engineers.
> 
> ...


 Actually, I work for my stillman. He works for the unit superintendant. The process engineer and unit specialist also work for the superintendent. An operator is a proprietor. When you're here, you own the unit. Right now, there's no one here but us... we want the company to make as much money as possible. We like our bonus check!


----------



## bubbas kenner (Sep 4, 2010)

bubbas kenner said:


> He asks us what we do, its too much to list but the main thing we do is be safe all the time.


Keeping it in the pipes.bk.


----------



## Calmday (Jul 7, 2005)

Saltwater Boy(1) said:


> I am going to LIT next semester to start my Process degree. Any helpful hints or tips from some experienced operators in here?


 Thats a great move. I graduated from there in 96. Dont overlook offshore operations when you graduate.


----------



## fattyflattie (May 20, 2008)

Roger on the bonus, and the mutual respect. 

The disconnect, at least in my industry comes from an engineer that won't ever have 25 yrs of field experience like the operations guys, but in turn, the ops guys can't do the things that the engineers do. 

Without ops, work doesn't get done and we all go home. Without the eng/mgt, there is no plant, we all go home. 

I'll also say the ops are usually more "salt of earth" types, but Im lucky enough to work with a lot of good ol boy engineers too, so I'm kind of spoiled.


----------



## GeauxGet'Er (Jul 15, 2011)

Brete said:


> LMAO......How much did you make last year?.......big bucks.....LOL


Not enough!!! I was actually being sarcastic with regards to a previous post. I've worked with operators long enough to know they make a very pretty penny. 
And yes, a lot of it is true about the young engineers. I was an Applications Engineer for about five years and successfully sold in the hundreds of millions of $ worth or process equipment but never seen or knew how to operate one, much less start it. But I can tell you the procedures to do so. Somewhat of an oxymoron.

I thought this was a cool thread at first, but now starting to look like a bunch of bashing between the teams, yup team. I've met a lot of operators in the field and I've never got the sense of "haters" or jealosy as discussed here. Either I'm a really cool guy or some of these operators are pretending to be cool with me, lol.

But I know now that if things go south, I'm have to pull out the 2cool card, lol. (Back in the days it was Japanese school girl **** j/k, come on its fri stop hating and being so serious).


----------



## Saltwater Boy(1) (Jan 11, 2013)

Calmday said:


> Thats a great move. I graduated from there in 96. Dont overlook offshore operations when you graduate.


I would absolutely love that! My older brother is an underwater welder and works for Technip (use to be global industries) I thought about becoming an ROV tech but, I feel process is more for me. I am just hoping I make the grades I need to get a great Job, math is not my strong suit.


----------



## rc10j1 (Jul 15, 2010)

In engineering / project controls, the real money is in contracting. Consulting contractors make 50% to 100% more than the company employees. The contract engineers do all the technical work. We just manage them.


----------



## KGLS (Feb 22, 2013)

Johnboat said:


> Heck, all a pilot or astronaut does is sit there and read instruments and push some buttons too.


Well in the parlance of the way this thread has been going, I should say nu-uh...we also have to show up to work sober hahaha


----------



## Calmday (Jul 7, 2005)

rc10j1 said:


> In engineering / project controls, the real money is in contracting. Consulting contractors make 50% to 100% more than the company employees. The contract engineers do all the technical work. We just manage them.


 
If you want to make a living contracting you better have some skills to bring to the table. I have a few who work in my group who are making 16-19 hundred a day but they are doing things like developing integrity management programs for a 40 billion dollar gas project. Your typical engineer working for an engineering contractor makes about the same as an operator but gets laid off every other year.


----------



## Tortuga (May 21, 2004)

WOW !!! My apologies, Gents.. Really didn't intend to pull the cork out of the bottle and unleash *this *Genie..

Sounds to me like neither side can get along without the other..so...as the kids say..*PEACE* !!!...

All I was really concerned with wuz some clue as to how the gasoline gets to the pump in between the 2cool surfing and the barbecueing.....:rotfl:

(J/K, of course)....


----------



## rc10j1 (Jul 15, 2010)

Calmday said:


> If you want to make a living contracting you better have some skills to bring to the table. I have a few who work in my group who are making 16-19 hundred a day but they are doing things like developing integrity management programs for a 40 billion dollar gas project. Your typical engineer working for an engineering contractor makes about the same as an operator but gets laid off every other year.


All the contract engineers, designers, and planners I know have never had trouble keeping a job. They all make 80-120 an hour with full benefits. The guys out there welding in your units make just as much a year as an operator and only work part of the year. Of course they work 7/12s the days they work.


----------



## Calmday (Jul 7, 2005)

rc10j1 said:


> All the contract engineers, designers, and planners I know have never had trouble keeping a job. They all make 80-120 an hour with full benefits. The guys out there welding in your units make just as much a year as an operator and only work part of the year. Of course they work 7/12s the days they work.


120 an hour is less than a grand a day. I wouldn't see too many guys giving up their company jobs for that.
Most contractors make at least twice that where I work.


----------



## rc10j1 (Jul 15, 2010)

Operator at $40/hr. vs $120/hr. not much math to do there.


----------



## Part Timer (Jul 2, 2012)

Calmday said:


> 120 an hour is less than a grand a day. I wouldn't see too many guys giving up their company jobs for that.
> Most contractors make at least twice that where I work.


What job makes 240/hr?!?! Lol sign me up. Im just a designer not a engineer. Yes layoffs come from time to time for the higher paying positions. But for every layoff there is another project starting up. Its booming out there now. A couple a years ago there was a slow streak but its up and running full speed again and plants are expanding everywhere.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Range Coach (May 8, 2012)

rc10j1 said:


> ..... The contract engineers do all the technical work. We just manage them.


We had one of these _contract _engineers that decided a condensate trap needed to be installed in one of the steam lines. I layed out the work and had my guys install the trap only to have this educated idiot tell me it was wrong...???? It was installed per the drawing, like all of the other in-line traps ---u--- but he proceeds to tell me that because steam is hot, and that hot vapors rise, steam would, by nature, rise also. If the trap was installed in the ---u--- configuration, the steam would not be able to rise and would cause back pressure to build. He told us that the trap needed to be inverted __n__ so that the steam wouldn't be restricted.:spineyes:

I think he's driving a school bus now.


----------



## BretE (Jan 24, 2008)

GeauxGet'Er said:


> Not enough!!! I was actually being sarcastic with regards to a previous post. I've worked with operators long enough to know they make a very pretty penny.
> And yes, a lot of it is true about the young engineers. I was an Applications Engineer for about five years and successfully sold in the hundreds of millions of $ worth or process equipment but never seen or knew how to operate one, much less start it. But I can tell you the procedures to do so. Somewhat of an oxymoron.
> 
> I thought this was a cool thread at first, but now starting to look like a bunch of bashing between the teams, yup team. I've met a lot of operators in the field and I've never got the sense of "haters" or jealosy as discussed here. Either I'm a really cool guy or some of these operators are pretending to be cool with me, lol.
> ...


Lol......sorry, it was late and I'd been wading all day with an an operator buddy. We slammed some nice trout. I'd just come inside from fishing my lights and missed the sarcasm. Just got off my boat, caught a few nice redfish this morning. Fishing this afternoon and tomorrow. Can't wait to get back to my operator job so I can get some rest....


----------



## mrau (Mar 17, 2010)

Johnboat said:


> Heck, all a pilot or astronaut does is sit there and read instruments and push some buttons too.


Pilots also have to get through at least one crossword or sudoko per leg. That can be quite stressful. Assuming "George" is functioning well of course. Oh, "sarcasm."


----------



## goatchze (Aug 1, 2006)

Navi said:


> _This 60% work load is spelled out word for word in procedures that an engineer, *which has no clue what he is doing, although he has a degree so management listens to him*, has written down for you *after grilling the senior operator for knowledge of how its actually done*. Am i wrong? Surely I will be._
> No, looks about right to me, little bit of a run on sentence but most engineers tend to talk too much anyway ........:brew2:


At least most of them know that the words "_which"_ and "_who"_ cannot be used interchangeably. Most also know that the possesive "_its"_ does not contain a verb. Maybe that has something to do with not having management's ear?

Now, let's get back to the more pressing matter of who is more important, the people who make facilities run, or the people who make facilities run. My vote is for the latter.

Signed,

goatchze, P.E.


----------



## baytownboy (Jul 24, 2009)

Saltwater Boy(1) said:


> Assuming you are an instrument tech? lol


Yep, at Gulf/Chevron there was one instrument man they called "rainbow" because like the bread, HE WAS AN EIGHT HOUR LOAF!


----------



## redexpress (Apr 5, 2010)

I sure haven't seen it all but....but I spent 35 years in the biggest plant on Hwy 225. I've seen some absolutely stupid Engineers, some equally stupid Operators, and some really dumb maintenance Craftsmen. The stupid Engineers usually got asked to leave or got shuffled into a job that they couldn't mess up. There was a lot of thought, meetings with vendors, and management of change meetings that go into changes to hardware. Sometimes it even works. Occasionally it doesn't. Some folks just can't accept change and fight it. If we were still were using packing in pumps we would continue to poison the environment. Saying that, I have met some incredibly smart kids just out of college. If they approach the business recognizing they know little, they usually learn better and rocket up the organization. More power to them. Innovate or die.


----------



## rc10j1 (Jul 15, 2010)

If you don't mind getting contractors hurt all the time, become an operator. Don't worry though, they won't report it because it will affect their company's safety record.


----------



## Too Tall (May 21, 2004)

rc10j1 said:


> If you don't mind getting contractors hurt all the time, become an operator. Don't worry though, they won't report it because it will affect their company's safety record.


your an absolute jack ***. The real reason people get hurt is you management pukes don't pay to fix things. BP is a prime example


----------



## rc10j1 (Jul 15, 2010)

BP happened because the operators let a drum continue to fill up hours past the time it should have been full. The level indicator wasn't working but they were too lazy to go check it themselves, even though they knew it should have been full. BTW I had several friends hurt it that explosion. The operators union tried to blame it on operator fatigue which is now why we have the 13 day guideline. Name a plant and I promise you I can name someone hurt by operations that was covered up. When I was young and in the field. I can't count how many times we fired up on a weld an operator said was clear and fire shot out.


----------



## texacajun (May 2, 2005)

rc10j1 said:


> If you don't mind getting contractors hurt all the time, become an operator. Don't worry though, they won't report it because it will affect their company's safety record.


I've been doing this job for approximately 17 years and I have never been responsible for someone elses injuries. In fact, I am rolling through my mental files and can't think of anyone in my plant who has been injured due to operational failures. Your statement, IMO, is crossing a line, and frankly ticks me off.

No one I know would be comfortable knowing they were responsible for someone elses injury, much less their own. There is more self pride in my work and the work of my peers than what you alledge. I have to agree with my peer Too Tall, you are indeed a jack wagon of great magnitudes.



Too Tall said:


> your an absolute jack ***. The real reason people get hurt is you management pukes don't pay to fix things. BP is a prime example


Don't let the jerk bait you TT. We are in this industry together, managers, engineers, operators, and maintenance....a team positioned for the common goal of the company and it's employees. Jack A's like rc10j1 are just bitter wannabe's that don't fit into the system and mad at the world; expendable support, nothing more.

Mike


----------



## texacajun (May 2, 2005)

Haute Pursuit said:


> You ever seen one of those operators handle a tray with BBQ sauce on the side bro??? :slimer: :rotfl:


:rotfl: Yep....that was a real doozy fo sho. Dropped it all over my rc10j1!!


----------



## rc10j1 (Jul 15, 2010)

We are all expendable support. Operators have to have a union to protect their jobs just like any other low skill craft. You don't see any of the professional positions hiding behind the unions skirt like a scared kid. Some of us can keep a job based on merit and not union protection.


----------



## Bocephus (May 30, 2008)

rc10j1 said:


> We are all expendable support. Operators have to have a union to protect their jobs just like any other low skill craft. You don't see any of the professional positions hiding behind the unions skirt like a scared kid. Some of us can keep a job based on merit and not union protection.


LMAO....your Momma & Daddy sure did raise a douchbag.


----------



## texacajun (May 2, 2005)

rc10j1 said:


> We are all expendable support. Operators have to have a union to protect their jobs just like any other low skill craft. You don't see any of the professional positions hiding behind the unions skirt like a scared kid. Some of us can keep a job based on merit and not union protection.


I do not, nor would I want to work in a union plant. I keep my job based on my work ethic, knowledge, and safety record. However, people like you roll through the gates a dime a dozen. Tomorrow, the fresh grad from whatever school can and will replace non-essential personnel like yourself. People like me and many of my peers on this board are less inclined to be replaced due to our extensive knowledge of our particular plants.

Obviously, you have been mistreated, or had a bad experience with an operator; a shame that happened.

People like you will never make good leaders, rather cowards. You attempt to hide behind your education, position, or whatever stroke you think you have. You are a leader from the rear, and the site in front of you never changes. Men will never respect you, want to work for you, or give two pennies if you disappear tomorrow. Men like me, my coworkers, and peers on this board don't have the problem of having to lead men from behind....we are pathfinders, trendsetters, and leaders from the front. We run to the fire, to the problem, to mitigate the issues...cowards like you read the story.

As mentioned before, it takes the full spectrum of people to keep these places running....well except for trash like yourself.


----------



## Back Bay boy (Apr 7, 2010)

rc10j1 said:


> We are all expendable support. Operators have to have a union to protect their jobs just like any other low skill craft. You don't see any of the professional positions hiding behind the unions skirt like a scared kid. Some of us can keep a job based on merit and not union protection.


Now you are talking out your arse. We at Valero are all non union. You sir are a idiot who I hope does his job better than he knows his facts cause somebody may get hurt. The truth is we train over and over to do JSAs. Writing permits and etc etc etc because the contractors who come in try to cut corners and usually somebody get hurt in the process. Funny how most injuries happen during turnarounds. The only thing they have in common is contractors. Usually some hand who is young dumb and gung ho freaking some chit up...


----------



## WhiteSquall (Feb 11, 2013)

This thread went south really quick! But, it is fun to read!


----------



## SpecklFinAddict (Dec 19, 2004)

Me smells an engineer who majored in trollism!


----------



## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

texacajun said:


> :rotfl: Yep....that was a real doozy fo sho. Dropped it all over my rc10j1!!


He is an ugly MF'r fo sho! LOL


----------



## Bocephus (May 30, 2008)

rc10j1 said:


> We are all expendable support. Operators have to have a union to protect their jobs just like any other low skill craft. *You don't see any of the professional positions hiding behind the unions skirt like a scared kid.* Some of us can keep a job based on merit and not union protection.


Professional position ?.....didn't you start the thread below looking for a job ????

http://2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/showthread.php?p=3011116#post3011116

Since when are Planners considered a "professional" position ?


----------



## sweenyite (Feb 22, 2009)

rc10j1 said:


> We are all expendable support. Operators have to have a union to protect their jobs just like any other low skill craft. You don't see any of the professional positions hiding behind the unions skirt like a scared kid. Some of us can keep a job based on merit and not union protection.


Our operations personnel are non-union but our maintenance folks are union. Talk about what you know about. Be a jerk and get treated like one.


----------



## bubbas kenner (Sep 4, 2010)

Make relief at this time starting 7 days .


----------



## SpecklFinAddict (Dec 19, 2004)

FlatoutFishin said:


> Me smells an engineer who majored in trollism!


My bad...a planner who majored in pot stirring!


----------



## sweenyite (Feb 22, 2009)

Bocephus said:


> LMAO....your Momma & Daddy sure did raise a douchbag.


 I doubt they were married...if they even knew each other.


----------



## C.Hern5972 (Jul 17, 2009)

A planner.... LoL


----------



## rc10j1 (Jul 15, 2010)

My degree is in project controls engineering. I have family who are operators. I was just seeing how far I could get you Sally's stirred up lol.


----------



## gitchesum (Nov 18, 2006)

I used to sum it up like this when I was in pipeline control.

I don't get paid much money to push buttons all day...however, I get paid a lot to know which buttons to push. When things just don't look quite right...you want a guy in that chair that knows what buttons to push to keep things from getting worse.


----------



## JShupe (Oct 17, 2004)

rc10j1 said:


> My degree is in project controls engineering. I have family who are operators. I was just seeing how far I could get you Sally's stirred up lol.


Ha Bocephus caught you with your pants down behind the shed... who's the Sally now you wanker.


----------



## elkhunter49 (Jun 7, 2004)

I've been on both sides of the fence as an operator and staff for over 20 years so
let me share an indisputable fact with you. Operators are paid what they are paid becaue off their unit specific knowledge and ability to react quickly enough to keep small problems and events just that.... Small. An experienced operator that still has a solid work ethic is worth his weight in gold. Staff people are just like operators, some add a lot of value to their company and some are slugs. 
These statements damming or praising all operators or staff people or union or non union people just sounds like a grade school ******* match. Baker


----------



## blaze 'em (Jun 4, 2012)

goatchze said:


> At least most of them know that the words "_which"_ and "_who"_ cannot be used interchangeably. Most also know that the possesive "_its"_ does not contain a verb. Maybe that has something to do with not having management's ear?
> 
> Now, let's get back to the more pressing matter of who is more important, the people who make facilities run, or the people who make facilities run. My vote is for the latter.
> 
> ...


You might mean "whom" instead of "who"...

Signed, 
son of an english teacher, and measurement tech...

blaze 'em


----------



## goatchze (Aug 1, 2006)

blaze 'em said:


> You might mean "whom" instead of "who"...
> 
> Signed,
> son of an english teacher, and measurement tech...
> ...


Nope, I mean "who". "Whom" would be incorrect.


----------



## sweenyite (Feb 22, 2009)

Whom cares? :biggrin:


----------



## Stumpgrinder (Feb 18, 2006)

I was an outside operator on an HF alky unit for a long time and 'd like to make a few observations about what I've read here
1. I never and do mean never got anyone hurt . Purposefully or by ommission of duty.
2. I planned, prepared + executed thousands of complex isolations on equipment in HF acid service . I took pride in the professionalism I brought to those tasks and took pride in the fact that no maintenance hand ever had a bad or unexpected encounter whilst breaking into a job that I prepared.
3. I've executed many thousands of operating procedures on said unit. NONE was prepared or written by an engineer ( an engineer would butcher a procedure so bad as to make it unusable camp fire fodder) The procedures in my facility were produced and written by operators on an upgrade assignment.
4. The carrying a clipboard and cooking for 10 hours a shift days are essentially over.
5. Any of you youngbloods planning on becoming process operators in the future need to make friends with the concept of work. The company is after your seat time and the most aggressive one ( marathon) just bought the biggest game in town in Texas City. 
6. I work in Africa now and I thought I was brought over here to show the yokels how to do it ! Wrong ! These guys can operate circles around the average American process operator in 2013. Its not even close.... My crew in Texas City would pass out watching a Fillipino process tech carry on for 12 hours. ( and my guys back home worked harder than most or so I'm told)


----------



## elkhunter49 (Jun 7, 2004)

Stumpgrinder said:


> I was an outside operator on an HF alky unit for a long time and 'd like to make a few observations about what I've read here
> 1. I never and do mean never got anyone hurt . Purposefully or by ommission of duty.
> 2. I planned, prepared + executed thousands of complex isolations on equipment in HF acid service . I took pride in the professionalism I brought to those tasks and took pride in the fact that no maintenance hand ever had a bad or unexpected encounter whilst breaking into a job that I prepared.
> 3. I've executed many thousands of operating procedures on said unit. NONE was prepared or written by an engineer ( an engineer would butcher a procedure so bad as to make it unusable camp fire fodder) The procedures in my facility were produced and written by operators on an upgrade assignment.
> ...


Intresting observations, I operated an HF Alky plant in Odessa for several years before the plant was closed. I remember reading a while back that almost all the HF units in the country have been replaced by Sulfuric Alky units. Thats a great step forward in my opinion. HF is some nasty stuff when it gets away from you.


----------



## Stumpgrinder (Feb 18, 2006)

elkhunter49 said:


> Intresting observations, I operated an HF Alky plant in Odessa for several years before the plant was closed. I remember reading a while back that almost all the HF units in the country have been replaced by Sulfuric Alky units. Thats a great step forward in my opinion. HF is some nasty stuff when it gets away from you.


There are still lots of HF acid alky units around ( at least 3 in Texas City alone) I think industry would like to convert to sulfuric or a dry catalyst but not yet.

HF will kill a man cowboy dead and it was one of the driving motivators for me to move my skill set to western Africa. I tickled the beast long enough and didnt care to run out of dumb luck. If hydroflouric acid doesnt scare you then you need to get yourself examined. IMHO

I find all the heartburn from the public about H2s, benzene and propylene laughable in light of those big old HF dragons they have in our backyards that everybody just seems to ignore.

Mommas dont let your babies grow up to be alky operators....


----------



## HTJ (May 26, 2011)

QUOTE:

"That pretty much sums it up Jim. I always thought of it as "riding the rocket" The potential for disaster is always there. I was in the plant at Shell Chemical one quiet Sunday morning back in the '90s When OPIII blew up. OPIII is on the west side of the complex and my unit, the old BA plant is on the east side over a quarter mile away. The explosion shook the cinderblock control room to the extent that it knocked me out of my chair. The fire was so hot it was starving for O2 and pulled the door open on the west side of the building and when it got all it wanted it slammed the door very hard."

I was there too, on a warm sunday morning in '96 to be precise. I was/is/am an inspection contractor in our company trailer on the west side of the unit drinking coffee and waiting for an instrument to charge up when it blew. It felt like the hand of god shaking our trailer and I was ejected out of the door. The 3 of us present hit the ground running, we scaled 2 big security fences like it was nothing, finally making our way out to 225 when we were just past the old warehouse/shop on the west side of the plant. All of the cars in the contractor parking lot had the hoods and/or roofs crunched in and most windshields were busted, as were the windows of the businesses across 225. We were allowed back in on the following tuesday as I recall, to retrieve any personal effects and my company truck parked by our trailer had the windshield blown into the seat and the doors sprang out. 

I have been a manager/director for my company for some time now and rarely visit the field anymore but to this day I never, ever begrudged an operator their a## time or wages. The 3% of the time when their job sucks, it REALLY sucks.


----------



## stdreb27 (Aug 15, 2011)




----------

