# In the beginning.............



## fishermanX (Jun 23, 2005)




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## Gary (May 21, 2004)

*An RC flashback.*

The very best race I have ever been to. 

http://home.flash.net/~rmahaffy/Events.htm


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## Donnie Hayden (Mar 7, 2005)

I miss that track  Hell, I miss fastrak, pearland raceway, area 51


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## Gary (May 21, 2004)

Donnie Hayden said:


> I miss that track  Hell, I miss fastrak, pearland raceway, area 51


The offroad track was so hooked up that weekend, they were running slicks.


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## Gary (May 21, 2004)

You ever race at Performance Donnie?http://www.ziplink.net/~prrc/


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## Donnie Hayden (Mar 7, 2005)

Nah, I have never been to that track. Looks sweet though


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## cjtamu (Sep 22, 2004)

Now you can't scare up a 1/10 race. I would love to see a 1/10 only track at one of the venues here. Ncontrol did that a few months ago and they have good electric turnouts now. I ran the B44 this weekend and I'm more worried about breaking it than driving it the way it should be. Don't tell fishermanx I have a spare B4 either or we might end up with a 1/10 class again, LOL.


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## nik77356 (Jun 8, 2007)

You mean that B4 that I beat you with?


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## Donnie Hayden (Mar 7, 2005)

Chris, I posted a reply under the austin thread about 1/10 scale and the traxxas slash. I would love to see this happen. It would be great for the kids! That is my main concern. I dont have the desire to race right now, but I will be more than happy to get my son back into some 1/10 racing.

To be honest, We have had more fun with electrics than nitro. I started us out with a rustler and a stampede back in 2000. We did the electric thing up untill I got into racing in 04.


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## nik77356 (Jun 8, 2007)

I had way more fun running that B4 this weekend then I ever had running 1/8th. It's one of the main reasons I'm converting my RC8 to electric.


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## Gary (May 21, 2004)

I hate nitro. Just too much of a pain.


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## Gary (May 21, 2004)

1989 ifmar worlds.


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## Gary (May 21, 2004)

1987 Worlds.


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## Donnie Hayden (Mar 7, 2005)

Thats awesome. 2 stick radios, wow!


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## PD2 (Jul 1, 2005)

Yeah, Donnie, I posted back under the Austin Spec Class thread.....its VERY sad that there is not even a Novice class at the races any more! Even sader is the fact that kids are scarce at the races and the only thing dominating racing today is 1/8. The things that just should not be....

You know, Gary, Chris, me and others started this 2Cool Racing thing with the whole intent to NOT let that stuff happen - it was to grow the hobby and have racers helping newbies and racers helping kids. I guess no one is interested in helping to grow the next generation that will keep the hobby alive as well as keep giving the racers competitors.

Sad....vey sad.sad4sm 

PD2


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## nik77356 (Jun 8, 2007)

I'm a kid!!


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## Donnie Hayden (Mar 7, 2005)

Yeah, I agree Paul. All of the tracks use to push novice clases. There is no interest in that anymore. I have tried more than once to get my son racing, but it is so unfair and frustrating for him when he is surrounded by grown men. 

I really want to get him into racing, but I dont think it is going to happen untill someone makes the move in the right direction and start thinking about the kids again. 
I dont know what direction to go anymore. Personally, I have no desire to race anymore because it's the same o same o. Courtney has done alot for this hobby and I know we all appreciate it, but we need to get the little ones on the track guys. Like Paul said, when we cant do it anymore who will? Maybe if enough of us get together we can get the tracks, even if it's just southside, to have a novice kids class. I know there are plenty of kids out there as I have seen them playing around the pits at races. K&M was excellent for making sure the kids were able to run their cars and that is why I miss that track.


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## jelias (Sep 7, 2004)

Donnie Hayden said:


> Yeah, I agree Paul. All of the tracks use to push novice clases. There is no interest in that anymore. I have tried more than once to get my son racing, but it is so unfair and frustrating for him when he is surrounded by grown men.


Not only is your statement true but to add to that, we as adult racers are always looking for bigger tracks with bigger jumps. I tried to get my son who is 11 (9 or 10 at the time) to run electric in one of the races and when we showed up, I was intimidated to put an electric on the track with the buggies and truggies. I can only imagine how he felt with his limited driving experience.

I pretty much abandoned that idea after that race. From there, we decided to run HIRCR and now M&M on the larger on-road track.

I really hope that you get your son out to the track and help him enjoy this great hobby.


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## PD2 (Jul 1, 2005)

jelias said:


> Not only is your statement true but to add to that, we as adult racers are always looking for bigger tracks with bigger jumps. I tried to get my son who is 11 (9 or 10 at the time) to run electric in one of the races and when we showed up, I was intimidated to put an electric on the track with the buggies and truggies. I can only imagine how he felt with his limited driving experience.
> 
> I pretty much abandoned that idea after that race. From there, we decided to run HIRCR and now M&M on the larger on-road track.
> 
> I really hope that you get your son out to the track and help him enjoy this great hobby.


Jelias,

I know exactly what you are talking about! I totally understand. I'm sure your son was VERY excited about being able to race and race his electric around the track with others, even if he was still learning, but the big, fast 1/8 scales were probably too much for him. And here's another thing - how many guys that were out there came up and talked with you and your son or for that matter helped you out, gave you any pointers, tips, etc.? Did any even consider that your son was trying to drive and learn or did they appear to get frustrated and have the questioning looks of why you were still here during THEIR time?

I can understand why you went to the racing you did - not that there is ANYTHING wrong with racing out at Trey and Danny's tracks. I used to run HIRCR and it was a blast and everyone is helpful as well as not making you feel intimidated with anything that goes faster than you.

As I have stated before, I still blame the shops and tracks for allowing this to happen - not Courtney or HARC at all. Shops should be encouraging novice and kid classes, but instead they are more interested in selling the big ticket kits and parts instead of thinking of the longevity. As many will tell you, we all started in electric and grew into nitro and other scales. Today, shops are just pushing the biggest and badest nitro and telling them that is the only thing that they can race with. What's sad is that many of the new racers that do have the cash to drop will never know what it means to drive a 2WD electric around a race track and learn how to actually drive.

Definitely glad to here that you and your son stayed in. I know I don't race or run R/C any more....a lot of that has to do with these issues as well as the fact that every track that was within less than 50 miles of me is now closed. If ever a track opens up closer I'll probably get back in, but for now, its not worth the investment and I'm definitely not being forced to buy an 1/8 scale.

Have fun!
PD2


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## Gary (May 21, 2004)

Besides HIRCR and M&M, where else can kids race? 1/8th scale is killing the hobby. Let alone kids, who of us can afford, or willing to spend thousands of dollars on an RC car?

My last race was at HIRCR and I had a blast! I think it was more fun watching Jose jr. and Ethan run with us that it was actually racing. The excitment they were experiancing was infectious even to us veterans of 15+ years in this hobby.

IMO, the only way to grow the hobby is through exposure. But when the younguns see the price tag to get what they need to be competative now days, it scares them off. Hell, it scares me off!

CV has done an excellent job with HARC. But thats just one segment of racing and there is no way he can cover all the bases like 10th scale electric and minis. Danny and Trey have also done excellent jobs in the area of low cost Micro racing. This is where youll find the kids and the guys who are just out there for fun and dont want to break the bank while doing it.

1/10 scale electric is my favorite type of racing, but there is no where to race them. Yea I guess yall could say race at Mikes or one of the other tracks, but its no fun trying to run a 1/10th scale buggy on the same track as MTs and 1/8th scalers. They just tear up the track too much for the smaller cars. I tried racing a 1/10th scale buggy at K&M and didnt like it. My second time out, I left early and went and bought a MiniZ.

Weve done alot of research and know what needs to be done. We need a 10th scale ONLY track and it needs to close to where most racers are.


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## Donnie Hayden (Mar 7, 2005)

Wow, I want to thank you guys for all of the positive input on this situation. I feel I am usually headed in the wrong direction and a flaming war will start, but it's plain to see myself as well as you guys are on the right track.


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

I also concur with Jose that the tracks are just flat out too dang big for 1/10 scale. When we tried to push a growth in 1/10 scale class, every race would start out with 6-8 people, and be left with 1-3 people because of breakage trying to make the big jumps. The only solution is to build 1/10 specific tracks, but somehow I doubt that will happen around here. I do, however, foresee someone making a short-course style track here in Houston.

In terms of off-road, I believe that we are in a transitional period. I 100% disagree with Gary's comment that 1/8 is killing the hobby......I think that's a very opinionated statement. 1/8 scale is bringing a new dimension to the sport. As true fans, it will be up to us to figure out how to bring new people in on that.

To those who say that they can't get their kids into 1/10 scale, then don't get them into 1/10 scale......get them into what's popular now....1/8 scale. Until people give up the idea that 1/10 is the ONLY place to start in larger scale off-road, then we won't get anywhere........that simply isn't the case!

I FIRMLY believe that ANY kid who can learn how to control a car, can learn how to control an 1/8 scale. Quality 1/8 RTR's can be had ready to drive complete with fuel and a DSM radio for under $500 now-a-days. I know that the cheaper they are, the easier they are to break, but it's up to you as a parent to teach them how to drive within their limits, as well as the cars.....and progress from there. 

Also, I understand that it used to be $200-300 to get into racing because it was 1/10 scale, but inflation happens guys......it's as simple as that.....EVERYTHING in the world has risen in price.

Not to mention, brushless, electric 1/8 scales straight out of the box are just around the corner my friends.....mark my words! And things are going to change yet again! And all of these complaints about how difficult nitro is to get started in, will be washed away.

Yes, 1/10 used to be the way to go, but things evolve.........and 1/10 evolved into 1/8 scale......and we give props to all of you racers who paved the way for that. However, there's no need to give off the vibe that because it isn't what you think it should be, then it isn't good.

I'm not picking on anyone in particular here.......I just don't like the direction these couple of threads are going. You guys are preaching about how you want to promote the hobby, but what would someone who is just getting interested in RC think if they started doing their research and reading these forums? They would read what ya'll are saying and then say, "man, there's no 1/10 racing, and 1/8 is killing the hobby". What good would that do for the general RC cause that you guys speak of?


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## Gary (May 21, 2004)

Maybe I should of worded it differently CV. 1/8th scale killed *MY *kind of racing.


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

Gary said:


> Maybe I should of worded it differently CV. 1/8th scale killed *MY *kind of racing.


I understand, and I really hoped you didn't get upset with me for commenting on it. We will probably have this same debate 10-20 years from now when 1/8 racing is old news, and everyone is getting into 1/4 scale and the track is almost the size of an MX track! I could see that happen very easily.

Have you thought about a brushless 1/8 buggy? If you're burned out on outdoor racing, that's a different story.


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## Donnie Hayden (Mar 7, 2005)

I spent alot of money getting my son his own 8th scale couple years ago. Showed up at the track and guess what, not enough to fill a class. This happened race after race after race. Where is the interest? Why support this hobby if the shop owners or track owners dont offer up the option to run a novice class? Does it really matter if there are 2 or 10 kids in a class? They are kids and they just want to drive their R/C cars like everyone else.


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## Gary (May 21, 2004)

Courtney Vaughan said:


> I understand, and I really hoped you didn't get upset with me for commenting on it. We will probably have this same debate 10-20 years from now when 1/8 racing is old news, and everyone is getting into 1/4 scale and the track is almost the size of an MX track! I could see that happen very easily.
> 
> Have you thought about a brushless 1/8 buggy? If you're burned out on outdoor racing, that's a different story.


Not upset all bro! I think its healthy to discuss these issues in an open forum. This allows for new potential racers to have their say-so and us veterans to bounce ideas off of eachother.

I wouldnt mind a 1/8th scale brushless buggy at all! Thats not the problem, the problem is my time. I work Saturdays and all the tracks are a long drive for me.


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## Gary (May 21, 2004)

I have an idea for a low cost type of 1/10th scale electric racing. Im at work and dont really have the time tp post. I will when I get home.


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

All I can really speak for is the HARC series, as it's the only thing that I have a say-so in. In terms of the HARC series, we publicly invited everyone to a meeting before the season started. In that meeting, we had the three participating tracks' owners/managers present. 

We specifically discussed a kids/novice class, and even held a vote on the minimum number of people it would take to make a raceable class. Some said 2, and others said 10. EVERYONE present (not just the track owners) voted, and they came up with 4 people to make a class. We have tried time and time again to sign up a novice class, but never get more than a couple of people.

We also discussed doing the races in the evening instead, so that all the people that worked on Saturday could make it. Again, the vote was for the morning.

If you guys are genuinely interested in seeing these changes made, please make it a point to be at the meeting next year so that you can be heard.

That's all I've got to say about that.


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

P.S. Glad to see you back in action over here Gary!


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## cjtamu (Sep 22, 2004)

As said before, the biggest problem with 1/10 scale right now is the tracks themselves. You simply can't drive a 1/10 buggy the way it's meant to be driven. Yeah CV, you can start a kid with a 1/8 but they'll never be as good as if they start with 1/10. Jason, Roger, Andy Sosniak and Sady, Tol, Mark, Twheels, are all guys that started with 1/10. It's why they can wheel a 1/8 so precisely. And $500 plus support equipment is a lot to drop into a 1/8 for a kid.

M&M has the best track in town for 1/10 in terms of jump size, etc. Since there's no off-road there right now I wonder about approaching Meir to run 1/10 only there once a month. Obviously we'd have to do the track grooming, etc. Scale the jumps down so we can drive the cars instead of worrying about breaking them. And we'd have to have commitments from all the folks who are moaning about it to actually show up and bring your kids.


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

I step out of this picture when you mention Meir........there is a limit to how many times someone can curse me out while I'm doing free, back-breaking labor for them just so I can race and they can make money........good luck with that one fellas!

I, personally, don't believe that he has any genuine interest in promoting racing......IMO


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## Gary (May 21, 2004)

Hint of what I wanna talk about this evening....

Lets just make our own track!


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

cjtamu said:


> Yeah CV, you can start a kid with a 1/8 but they'll never be as good as if they start with 1/10. Jason, Roger, Andy Sosniak and Sady, Tol, Mark, Twheels, are all guys that started with 1/10.


so, you're saying that there will NEVER BE a people who didn't cut their teeth with a 1/10 that will EVER be as fast as the people that started out!?!?!? Come on Chris, you know that's not true! These people now that started out driving 1/8 scale.......some of them will eventually be FASTER than those guys.

I fully understand the argument that 1/10 is the original......it is. But it's the same argument that says that a turbo-charged 4 cylinder car could never be as fast as a big V8 muscle car.......that's just not true! Sure, muscle cars were here first, but you can't use that logic to say that someone who has never owned/driven one, could never be as fast/faster with their rice-rocket!


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## cjtamu (Sep 22, 2004)

They will never be as precise or as good in traffic as somebody who started in 1/10. You haven't seen real 1/10 racing yet. The cars run much closer together for the whole race, and one mistake can blow your win. It's part of why JB et al are so clean when they run and almost never miss their marks. 1/8 has so much power and traction that it forgives your mistakes so you don't need the same level of precision. But having it makes you even faster.


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## cjtamu (Sep 22, 2004)

Gary, the problem with making our own track is property. Unless one of us owns property in a suitable location we run the risk of all our hard work being pulled out from under us at some point. Since there's an existing track that's not being used, why not just groom it and do our own thing?


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

I have raced 1/10 with A, B, C, D, E, & F mains when I lived in Dallas......I know that it's tight and does require precision, but I can't agree with your logic to say that there will NEVER be faster people because they didn't race 1/10 scale.

Just my $.02 though.

And, yes, I'm bored and that's why I'm all over these threads! I'm leaving for vacation in the morning and I finished up all of my projects at work.....I can't seem to bring myself to start anything new. So here I sit, scouring the net!


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## Gary (May 21, 2004)

cjtamu said:


> Gary, the problem with making our own track is property. Unless one of us owns property in a suitable location we run the risk of all our hard work being pulled out from under us at some point. Since there's an existing track that's not being used, why not just groom it and do our own thing?


Hold on tight Grasshopper! Ill get into more detail tonight.


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## Gary (May 21, 2004)

I cant wait.  Ill be posting a new thread in a minute.


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## jerry23 (Sep 16, 2005)

i see 5 members and 8 guests waiting for this gary 8)


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## cjtamu (Sep 22, 2004)

LOL. They'll be fast CV, just not as fast as they COULD be. Look around, you'll see a lot of good drivers saying that running 2wd 1/10 makes you a better driver.


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## Donnie Hayden (Mar 7, 2005)

As Chris said, M&M is the perfect size track for 1/10 scale. I think all of us that are wanting a 1/10 scale track get together and meet up at M&M one day and talk with Mier. We could have nitro and electric classes. I know most anyone here can afford a $200 RTR slash and let your kids have at it. Or the adults can have at it lol. 

Dont you guys forget, I own a 8th scale buggy. I am simply pushing this because I want my son to enjoy what I have enjoyed the last 5 years but at alot less expense.


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## insaneracin2003 (Feb 22, 2006)

eerrrr, Mier,eerrrrr. i am all about getting 1/10 elec and gas back....also any kind of elec. but if it was to happen at a certain facility.(cough,mier,cough) count me out. i am sorry and try my darndest not to bash anyone for anything on a public forum. But I can't keep my mouth shut on this one. HARC was having a TFT race at this particular facility and we were there, in the rain, working our arses off to get the track ready since this particular facility doesn't do squat with there track. I was told from an arse owner that we didn't deserve any piping for HIS track and that he didn't care about us or anything that we were doing.....If it wasn't for the TFT......i would not have shown up for the race nor would I have even finished the track we busted our arses off trying to get ready....


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

I have wanted to tell that story for a long time.....I just refrained from it.....don't forget to mention that all the cursing at us he did while we were dripping sweat and he was pointing where he wanted stuff 

I draw the line with that place


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## Guffinator (Aug 27, 2005)

I can't believe I'm going to step into this...

but...I've been involved with Meir doing the 1/18 thing. He will spring for ANY upgrade we want as long as WE do the labor. So I have to wonder if there were extenuating issue with the situation noted above. We've built 2 kick *** tracks and he's supported both every step of the way.


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## Gary (May 21, 2004)

Do me a favor yall. No politics here.


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## cjtamu (Sep 22, 2004)

Yeah Paul I was there, although I had to leave before things got even further out of hand. All I can say is that I'm talking about doing this for me and the other people and kids that want to run 1/10. There's only one tracks in town that's the right size and scale for 1/10. The other tracks are locked into what they have b/c 1/8 and truggy are the biggest classes and if you're already holding races that's what you have to cater to. So it's either run at M&M, build my own track, or start hauling my happy arse to the ATX once a month or so.


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## insaneracin2003 (Feb 22, 2006)

Guff, I am not quite sure why he was a total nut job to us that day, nor do I care!!! I just know that I will NOT be attending anything that he is promoting for anyone. My parents didn't speak to me when I was growing up the way he did that day. 
On a better note,
I am working on something that might interest all of you. I am still in the planning stages so it won't be for a while. But if everything goes through like planned. 1/10th elec and gas will be back......


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## PD2 (Jul 1, 2005)

insaneracin2003 said:


> Guff, I am not quite sure why he was a total nut job to us that day, nor do I care!!! I just know that I will NOT be attending anything that he is promoting for anyone. My parents didn't speak to me when I was growing up the way he did that day.
> On a better note,
> I am working on something that might interest all of you. I am still in the planning stages so it won't be for a while. But if everything goes through like planned. 1/10th elec and gas will be back......


OOOOOOOOO - give us a hint! Do tell!

PD2


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