# Maximum Lake Livingston Water Elevation?



## GaryI (Mar 18, 2015)

The water elevation is currently just above 133 ft, which I believe is about 2 ft above normal. I just purchased a house on the lake, and I am interested in understanding how high the lake could get. I can't find much on the internet to help. I don't know if the maximum level would be governed by the overflow limitation at the dam itself, or if the limitation is how much the surface area of the lake would expand as it rises above the bulkheads. Also, I would be interested in hearing from those of you with years of experience the maximum and minimum elevations that the lake has seen.

Thanks,
Gary


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## whsalum (Mar 4, 2013)

This is a Sunbeam question if I ever saw one. May want to shoot him an IM. He is the water elevation and flow guru on here !!


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## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

I can't tell you that at your home it won't get over xxx.xx'

Yes, at the dam right now is 133+, and I don't think it will get much higher at the dam. 

Realize too however that the level is 4+ feet higher at Riverside. It is like a wall of water that gravity affects. When the water hits the more open areas it can spread and lower better.

Your specific location definitely enters enters into what height above sea level you may reach, not only how far north you go... but also how far up feeder creeks you go.

The TRA seems to have 2 rules: Try to hold level at 131.0 at the dam, and try to match outflow to inflow when an occurrence like this is happening. The lake is really for surface drinking water, not flood control.

Hopefully Jerold will answer better. My experience with actually talking to the TRA has been good; they are knowledgeable. They may be very busy right now, I don't know. But you may try calling them.


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## GaryI (Mar 18, 2015)

Thanks, Whitebassfisher. Your response makes sense to me. 

I live in Onalaska at the south end where FM3186 hits the water. I realize that the absolute elevation varies depending on where you live - my question is really regarding how much higher could the lake rise than it is today. I think that based on the TRA "rules", as you stated in your post, it shouldn't get much higher. I put bumper pads on my boat lift a few weeks ago, and I wish I would have put them a bit higher!


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## GT11 (Jan 1, 2013)

At 133' it is at the top of my bulkhead. I have been here 12 years and I think I have seen it as high at 133.5'. I am in Onalaska too.


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## wwind3 (Sep 30, 2009)

Sunbeam I believe said record level was 134 in 1994.


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## Sunbeam (Feb 24, 2009)

TRA bought all of the land below the 135.0 elevation when they planned the lake. If you own property on the water then you have rights to use the land between the 135.0 and the 131.0 mark. But remember TRA has the right to flood their easement up to 135.0 elevation without being liable for damages.
This rise may not get beyond the 134.0 mark but there is enough water in the upper river to raise the lake much higher that that.
Livingston is not a flood control lake. It is a "flow of the river" reservoir which means that all of the water coming in is released to hold the lake at the 131.0 elevation.
But TRA is very mindful that there are many homes in the lower river that can easily flood so they try to meter out the water if possible. But if it comes to exceeding the 135.0 el. or flooding Liberty then Liberty is in a world of hurt. Also the release must take in mind that Long King Creek and Bernard creek that empty into the river below the dam can add 15,000 cfs to the river during a heavy rain. 
If you have habitable structures built on the TRA easement without a special permit then you are in violation of state law and have no claim if the property is damaged.
Most boat houses and bulkheads are below the 135.0 elevation by permit. The contractors do not want to build a dock or boathouse that far off the water due to material cost. Plus no one wants to climb up a four foot ladder to get out of a boat.

I hope we do not exceed the 134.0 mark but when I look at the upper river gauges which are higher than I have ever seen before and the fact that the release is nearing the record 88,000 cfs I would bet against it.


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## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

Jerold, when I bought my lot on the lake (about 15 years ago and I still haven't built there) I remember being able to find the highest recorded level at the dam and the date it occurred. But now I can't find it. Do you know those numbers?


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## Sunbeam (Feb 24, 2009)

Whitebassfisher said:


> Jerold, when I bought my lot on the lake (about 15 years ago and I still haven't built there) I remember being able to find the highest recorded level at the dam and the date it occurred. But now I can't find it. Do you know those numbers?


Don, when I try to search the USGA sites earlier than 2000 most results indicate that the data in not available on line. It says to contact USGS headquarter directly. But I do not think USGS keeps man made lake levels only stream data.

Unfortunately all of the old times I knew that were on the lake during the 1990 event are gone or dead.
I was in Singapore when it happened and returned about a week later. Looking at the trash line on the banks and knowing the elevation of the property at Triple Creek Marina I can say with some certainty the water reached the 134.5 mark. It was still over the point of land on the right as you pass Rocky Creek going up Kickapoo. That had to be 132.5 after a week of releasing water from the high mark.
I do not think I would build any thing I want to keep dry below 136.0 elevation. And that would be storage or a garage. A house at 138.0.


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## GaryI (Mar 18, 2015)

Sunbeam, you truly are a deep reservoir of lake knowledge. Thanks for the info - it is exactly what I was looking for.


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## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

Well, I just called the TRA. I was told that they do have that data, but they are busy right now working on new releases, and to call back in an hour please. I see 83,900 at Trinidad, so I am guessing the TRA will open more.

I think flooding of my home would be second only to fire.


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## SeaOx 230C (Aug 12, 2005)

Saw that reading at Trinidad. Does that mean that TRA will open the gates to match when that slug of water gets there? Or does it loose some its punch when it hits the Lake?


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## pevodog (Aug 10, 2014)

Sunbeam said:


> TRA bought all of the land below the 135.0 elevation when they planned the lake. If you own property on the water then you have rights to use the land between the 135.0 and the 131.0 mark. But remember TRA has the right to flood their easement up to 135.0 elevation without being liable for damages.
> This rise may not get beyond the 134.0 mark but there is enough water in the upper river to raise the lake much higher that that.
> Livingston is not a flood control lake. It is a "flow of the river" reservoir which means that all of the water coming in is released to hold the lake at the 131.0 elevation.
> But TRA is very mindful that there are many homes in the lower river that can easily flood so they try to meter out the water if possible. But if it comes to exceeding the 135.0 el. or flooding Liberty then Liberty is in a world of hurt. Also the release must take in mind that Long King Creek and Bernard creek that empty into the river below the dam can add 15,000 cfs to the river during a heavy rain.
> ...


Not to be argumentative, but the record is 110,000 cfs in 1994. I remember because it flooded several areas in my hometown of Liberty.


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## Little Mac (Apr 29, 2015)

Flow @ Trinidad is now 85,400


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## Humble2Fish (Feb 2, 2010)

*Lake Data*

I found another site http://livingston.uslakes.info/DamInfo.asp?DamID=54653 that have some data on the dam and Max Discharge if needed. It states the most the dam could let out is 673,209 cu ft/sec. Let hope it never comes to that but that would lower the lake fairly quickly i would imagine. Here is another link to same site with more historic lake data only goes back a few years though. http://livingston.uslakes.info/Level.asp


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## shadslinger (Aug 21, 2005)

pevodog said:


> Not to be argumentative, but the record is 110,000 cfs in 1994. I remember because it flooded several areas in my hometown of Liberty.


I remember a discharge just over 100,000 back when the older George Bush was president. he came down and toured the dam and picked up a shad, ask the closest secret service agent what it was, and the question had to be passed back several people deep before it got to a home boy who said, "Shad". I bet the story is in the Polk County Enterprise acrhives.
I also remember it flooding River lake estates, and pretty much removed most of it, and flooded many places down river.


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## Bankin' On It (Feb 14, 2013)

shadslinger said:


> I remember a discharge just over 100,000 back when the older George Bush was president. he came down and toured the dam and picked up a shad, ask the closest secret service agent what it was, and the question had to be passed back several people deep before it got to a home boy who said, "Shad". I bet the story is in the Polk County Enterprise acrhives.
> I also remember it flooding River lake estates, and pretty much removed most of it, and flooded many places down river.


Bush's fault. Now it's all starting to make sense.


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## bowler49 (Mar 11, 2015)

*This link has data back to the early 1970's*

http://www.waterdatafortexas.org/reservoirs/individual/livingston


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## wwind3 (Sep 30, 2009)

shadslinger said:


> I remember a discharge just over 100,000 back when the older George Bush was president. he came down and toured the dam and picked up a shad, ask the closest secret service agent what it was, and the question had to be passed back several people deep before it got to a home boy who said, "Shad". I bet the story is in the Polk County Enterprise acrhives.
> I also remember it flooding River lake estates, and pretty much removed most of it, and flooded many places down river.


Remember that day--Pres Bush and Gov Bush flew up there on a couple of choppers(saw them headed that way)-then went to the Doug Sanders Golf tournament-landed on the driving range at Deerwood Country Club in Kingwood on Lake Houston.

Pres Bush said a few words-they walked over to 1st tee-teed it up and walked 18 holes-gave out the winner's trophy-hopped on Marine Ones and flew to Austin where I think elder Bush gave commencement address at Texas.

Security was amazing-fenced off whole course-commandered homes around the course-snipers in 2nd floor windows and guys dressed in black riding around in golf carts with gun cases instead of golf clubs on back. Metal detectors to get thru gates. Patrol boats on the lake--heckuva deal

Saw some cool celebs that day. Spanky McFarland of the Little Rascals , Mike Connors-Mannix, John Elway, Goober Lindsey in his red cowboy boot golf shoes with Goober written down the sides, Charley Pride.


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