# Livingston



## KevBow (Mar 18, 2011)

So who all is gonna stop eating the fish since the latest study? Haven't there been numerous studies over the years on lots of different waters that have said not to eat the fish? Just wondering the seriousness of the situation? I just can't see myself not fishing the lake as I've done since I was a kid.


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## Jimmy Blue (Nov 20, 2013)

I'll eat some every few months... Rather be safe than sorry.


I don't mind practicing catch and release.


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## BobBobber (Aug 29, 2015)

KeyBow, there are a few threads already posted on the fish consumption. If you check, the interest in them has nearly come to a halt.

Why don't you start a poll to see how many people will still eat the LL fish? (I started a poll on consumption and labeling of imported fish, with minimal interest shown.)

Seriously start a poll to ask 2cool members. I, for one, would be interested in that poll and results.

As to your desire to continue to eat LL fish, that's your call.

But I notice you're still a young guy. Most of the younger set feel they are not vulnerable to many things. Sometimes they get lucky and are right.

However, when those of us advance to double your age, we often realize that we should not have ignored some of the warnings about diabetes, smoking, cholesterol, etc., etc. But by the time we've advanced in years, avoidance is no longer that effective. Mostly we rely on taking medications and modify our diets anticipating that we can slow down the progress of whatever ails us.

Every year or two my wife and I get a blood lab test for mercury. Mercury also shows up in many foods, other than fish.

Caution: unless the physician codes it correctly, medical insurance does not want to pay for mercury test.

So far, the good news is that mercury is not a problem for us.

Another Caution: The full-blown blood test for heavy metals is never covered by health insurance, so be sure your physician's lab does not check that box on the form.

So, get your blood tested every couple years to find out if you are free from any contaminants. That way, you'll know as certain as you can be if you can continue to eat whatever you want from wherever it came.


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## Oyster Dog (May 21, 2005)

The advisory is for PCB's and dioxin, not mercury: http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/news/releases/20151218.aspx


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## whsalum (Mar 4, 2013)

I'm sure the limits you can eat was set at a very liberal rate by the state and on white bass that was 3 times a month. It takes a big fish eater to eat more than that. I may not target the catfish as hard as I have in the past unless it is drifting. I fish more these days for fun than I do for the dinner table so I'll keep fishing Livingston and keep my consumption down to no more than 3 times a month. These warnings are nothing new, we had them in the 70's on Livingston and over the years on Rayburn.


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## WGA1 (Mar 1, 2012)

These warnings have always been around for the trinity on TPWD website. Seems like in the past though they were isolated to the upper watershed above Livingston closer to Dallas and was mainly just PCB's. Don't recall if dioxin was a problem. Maybe the levels are higher now but I have known people that have actually lived on catfish out of that river and lived to be a ripe old age. One fellow recently died in his seventies. He lived on catfish, beer, and cigarettes for most of his life. I guess all that means nothing though because everyone is different. In my house we usually have a fried fish meal once a month. Catfish from the trinity is one of those fried meals every now and then and that won't change...prefer crappie though.


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## Kenner Ben (Apr 23, 2013)

I really wish someone would do a test of the whites, hybrids and striped bass cleaned with the red part cut out. Most of us have done this for years and I would bet that 25 of 25 fish cleaned in this manner would test within acceptable levels. Perhaps we as 2coolers could hire a private firm to do this or, request that the state test the fish cleaned in this manner. 

Another option would be to test fish by length and set acceptable lengths for catch and release. A 12 inch white bass should have less accumulated toxins than a 15 incher.

If I read the report correctly, one additional person out of 12,000 that eats a massive amount of fish from the lake would contract cancer. 

I am pretty sure our odds of drowning on this giant lake are much greater.


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## Kenner Ben (Apr 23, 2013)

One final thought. The Luce Bayou interbasin transfer has been in the works for a while. The project calls for a huge canal to connect the Trinity river at a point south of the Lake to flow into Lake Houston. This project would most certainly have a detrimental affect on Lake Livingston water levels. Does Lake Houston really want our "polluted" water and fish?


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## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

Kenner Ben said:


> One final thought. The Luce Bayou interbasin transfer has been in the works for a while. The project calls for a huge canal to connect the Trinity river at a point south of the Lake to flow into Lake Houston. This project would most certainly have a detrimental affect on Lake Livingston water levels. Does Lake Houston really want our "polluted" water and fish?


The occasional time that I fish anymore is just for fun and has been that way for years. The "terrible warning" that recently came out, even though done a couple of years ago, will not affect me. Why did they wait so long? I take this warning with a whole shaker of salt.

As to connecting Livingston to Lake Houston, who knows? There are areas just outside of Coldspring (Near Lake Livingston) that are in the San Jacinto River shed. So water wouldn't have to be pumped very far to accomplish it. Lake Livingston was built for drinking water, not for us for recreation. The TRA makes all sorts of contracts to sell water.

Rice farmers near the coast need water that is fresh apparently. The TRA used to have to keep 2 or 3 gates open to keep the water fresh. With the salt water barrier down there now, 1 gate is enough to keep it fresh. As population skyrockets, we may see the lake level get low more in the future than it has in the past. More people need more water.

Industry uses water too, but they tend to re-cycle their water. They use water a lot for cooling, and treat the water to keep the water piping clean and scale free. They sample their water for pH and conductivity and many things, treat it, cool it, and re-use it.


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## Ducktracker (Aug 1, 2011)

It will not stop my fish consumption. It will be just one more thing to add to my bad habits, chewing tobacco, drinking beer and now eating fish from LL.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## trihullranger (Dec 19, 2015)

Kenner Ben said:


> I really wish someone would do a test of the whites, hybrids and striped bass cleaned with the red part cut out. Most of us have done this for years and I would bet that 25 of 25 fish cleaned in this manner would test within acceptable levels. Perhaps we as 2coolers could hire a private firm to do this or, request that the state test the fish cleaned in this manner.
> 
> Another option would be to test fish by length and set acceptable lengths for catch and release. A 12 inch white bass should have less accumulated toxins than a 15 incher.
> 
> ...


I agree with this post 100%!

If memory serves me correct A&M did the bulk of the testing. Would be nice if anyone that had connections with them could see if it was possible for them to conduct additional testing based on these specific parameters.

I also agree with whitebassfisher that I will take these results with a grain of salt. The amount of fish you would have to consume and the number of years does not apply to me for a maybe. I'm more of a clear and present danger kind of guy and I don't see that in their advisory.

The side effects and dangers listed on most of the medications folks take everyday makes this look like child's play IMO....


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## SeaOx 230C (Aug 12, 2005)

We eat fish several times a month and don't intend to change. Most of which comes from the Trinity. I think it is not a big issue at this time. Think about if they had picked what was it, three different white bass, to test the result would be the opposite. 

I do think this should cause more concern and more action when it comes to Dallas and what they are doing to the water. Any news on how this will be corrected before it really does get bad enough to be concerning?


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## KevBow (Mar 18, 2011)

Lots of good input thanks


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## Northern fisherman (Sep 16, 2014)

Hey Kevbow good thread I haven't made a decision yet probably going to cut back, Mother Nature is already helping there, I agree with sea ox 230c we should be looking at the root of the problem now and Kenner Ben and others have a good point of more specific and detailed testing


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## brucevannguyen (Oct 21, 2012)

Look on the bright side. We'll have an explosion of fish population if no one's eating and catching and releasing for a while. I'm still debating whether to eat fish from LL lake or the dam at all. We'll call LL home of the catch and release lake of Texas. Ha!! LOL!!


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## redexpress (Apr 5, 2010)

Whitebassfisher said:


> The occasional time that I fish anymore is just for fun and has been that way for years. The "terrible warning" that recently came out, even though done a couple of years ago, will not affect me. Why did they wait so long? I take this warning with a whole shaker of salt.
> 
> As to connecting Livingston to Lake Houston, who knows? There are areas just outside of Coldspring (Near Lake Livingston) that are in the San Jacinto River shed. So water wouldn't have to be pumped very far to accomplish it. Lake Livingston was built for drinking water, not for us for recreation. The TRA makes all sorts of contracts to sell water.
> 
> ...


Last I heard there will be a pump station north of Kenefick discharging into an open canal that will terminate near the mouth of Luce's Bayou. This has been discussed and planned since the early 1950's. Looks like it is moving forward now though.


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## Drifter022 (Apr 22, 2013)

Well, I live, breath, fish & eat LL fish along w/trinity bay & Laguna madre fish. In my 69 yrs there have been many of these studies all up & down the gulf coast. I'm still healty w/out any diseases as far as I know. I live on LL water front & have never seen any dead, deformed fish, birds squirrels, or any other living thing that depends on this lake. Have never had neighbors negatively diagnosed from LL life. I'm not saying there may be traces as it is a tremendous water shed but I for one do not trust fed govmt on any issue. I tend to think the fed agency's that employ phd's & are funded by feds have to justify their existence. This lake has been here 45 yrs + & I've yet to hear/see any negative results directly related to humans/fish/animals deformities/diseases from it. The negative devastation of this published front page attack(Polk County Enterprise") on all that live, sustain themselves/families from LL is only something as cold as "politicians" carelessly just throw out there w/out concern for the people directly impacted is typically govmt bs. I have one question to ask Polk County appraisal district, when these govmt hacks devastate property values will you respond accordingly?! FISH ON!


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## SeaOx 230C (Aug 12, 2005)

Last night we ate LLD Striper lightly seasoned with salt pepper, a sprinkling of herbs and baked just until it flakes. Meanwhile some fresh gulf shrimp are being sauteed in a butter roux cream sauce with fresh herbs.:fishy:

None of us are glowing yet and I'm sure none of us will. But I'll keep you posted.:bounce::bounce:

Dale


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## Drifter022 (Apr 22, 2013)

Thank you Dale. 
If the government hacks knows there's a problem then why haven't they fixed it in the last 45+ years?! 
It will take a lot more to make me stop eating LL fish than what "Polk County Enterprise" has to blabber as the feds puppet masters pull their strings. Only "liberals" make government hacks the "all knowing" experts. 
Favorite recipe;
Grilled LL catfish w/crawfish etouffe on dirty rice. Can't get enough!


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## trihullranger (Dec 19, 2015)

Easy as you go Drifter.... the Good Lord has already picked our day and time long ago. For being 69 I have to guess the Military did not run you enough with a full pack old man.... Keep the faith and your powder dry.


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## rglide09 (Mar 21, 2012)

I'm glad folks are talking common sense on this subject. I didn't catch enough whites this year to worry about! LOL. Seems to me the lake should be tested now since it had a big "flush" in May/June and is having another one now. I wonder if the poison levels were so high we weren't told 2 years ago when the samples were taken? These kind of reports can have a ripple effect on boat sales & service, home sales, RV parks, restaurants, fishing guides, etc. 
As for me I don't plan to slow down fishing but may raise my keeper size to limit how many fish I keep and eat. 

Fish On!


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## trihullranger (Dec 19, 2015)

rglide09 said:


> I wonder if the poison levels were so high we weren't told 2 years ago when the samples were taken? These kind of reports can have a ripple effect on boat sales & service, home sales, RV parks, restaurants, fishing guides, etc
> 
> Fish On!


I suspect most folks feel the same way.... The impact to those that make a living from the lake in one way or another is what ****** me off the most. If it was a clear and present danger why the long wait to release the advisory. One has to wonder is this an environmentalist hit job?


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## BobBobber (Aug 29, 2015)

trihullranger said:


> If it was a clear and present danger why the long wait to release the advisory. One has to wonder is this an environmentalist hit job?


Delays in communicating hazardous contaminants in the food chain can be the result of deliberate concealment from governments.

While not in Texas, the following information might show that this consumption advisory information can and is delayed, by government. Again, not in Texas, but included here to show a very real example.

In 1973 in Michigan, PBB laced animal feed was sold, by mislabeling, supposedly they said.

And I'm quoting from State of Michigan as follows: "_By the time the mix-up was discovered in April 1974, PBB had __entered the food chain through milk and other dairy products, beef products, and contaminated swine, __sheep, chickens and eggs."_

Why did it take more than one year for the public to find out? Was it delays for reasons of economic impact on the agricultural and livestock industry? Hmmm . . .

Before all truth came out, farmers rushed to sell as much livestock as quickly as possible.

Then, the final result was (quote) "_over 500 contaminated Michigan farms were quarantined, and approximately 30,000 cattle, 4,500 swine, 1,500 sheep, and 1.5 million chickens were destroyed, along with over 800 tons of animal feed, 18,000 pounds of cheese, 2,500 pounds of butter, 5 million eggs, and 34,000 pounds of dried milk products."_

During that time, before the quarantine order, people consumed the contaminated products without hesitation, because they knew nothing was wrong.

During that time, my daughter was a newborn, among thousands of others. She was nursed and also fed dairy milk. As a consequence, was the PBB contaminated food the source that led to fibroid tumor problems that resulted in a hysterectomy. We'll never know for sure.
.
So what did the State do about it? "In order to track and study any possible long-term health effects, the *Michigan Long-Term PBB Study *began in 1976, coordinated by the then-named Michigan Department of Public Health. MDCH worked with federal and academic health researchers to enroll and follow a cohort of approximately 4,000 people, mainly families and neighbors on farms who consumed the most contaminated products, and their offspring. These individuals completed health and exposure questionnaires and had their blood tested for levels of PBB and other chemicals in the environment. .​ Information on cases of cancer and deaths were also recorded. The registry of Michigan citizens exposed to PBBs was the basis of many years of scientific research on potential health effects.​ *.*​ *In 2011, MDCH discontinued any further activity to maintain this registry.*​ *.*​ So, 2cool followers, that looks like the end of the line for the PBB scandal. The books are closed. No news can't hurt anybody, I guess.​ .​ Would Texas do a better job in dealing with disseminating consumption advisories? It looks like some 2cool members are asking that question now.​


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