# Top Shot



## Dark_ale (Oct 10, 2007)

I strung up this reel with 40lb Trilene and Tied a "Top Shot" of 80lb to help keep shell, etc from cutting the line, and to keep my line from snapping when I rare back and cast in the surf. I used an albright not, I tested it a few times, the 40lb broke under pressure each time, and the knots did'nt break. 

Does anyone think this knot will get caught in the eye on the rod and give me a backlash from hell? Using a 12 foot American Rodsmith? Should I tied a differant knot?

I will tie my leader on the 80#


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## Norman Bateman (Aug 10, 2009)

Hi Dark_Ale:

Why tie any knot at all? Just use the line off the spool as it came from the store. I guess I'm just "old school" and don't understand the need for top shots and backing and all of that ****. To my thinking, all you're doing is creating problems for yourself to deal with at a later time-when you have a good fish on! Just my thoughts!

Best and tight lines,

Norman Bateman


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## R Y A N (Jun 17, 2009)

I believe you are talking about a shock leader, I use the Albright on my casting rigs and have no problems with the knot hitting guides....I don't blob the tag ends either, just check the knot every once in awhile


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## Category6 (Nov 21, 2007)

Yes I do think it will snag the guides and be a problem. Try tying the same knot and trimming real close with a razor blade after it's snugged up really good, then treat it with some UV reactive fly fishing knot dressing. It's kinda like super glue but it doesn't set-up until you put it direct sunlight, then it sets 100% in a few seconds and makes a really smooth transition plus it locks the knot together so you won't ever have it slip even trimmed real close like that.


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## Dark_ale (Oct 10, 2007)

Ya, shock leader, thats what I meant. I would'nt worry about it but I remember breaking the line during casting last time I went, Maybe I was casting to hard...LOL do you think a shock leader is a good Idea with 40#? or just more to worry about fishing for reds and small sharks..?


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## 535 (May 23, 2004)

you definitely need a shock-leader when casting with lighter lines, 40lb mono is just gonna depend on how heavy the bait is you are casting and how much pressure yu are putting on the line during the cast... the basic calculation is 10lb mono shock leader for every ounce you are casting... on light casting outfits for shrimp and small cutbaits I like 50lb mono shock-leader... I use 80 and 100lb mono on shark casting rod... length of shock leader is 5 turns around the spool, out the rod tip and back the length of the rod to the spool... I am sure allbright is fine, but here's another that works great... if you think your knot is catching guides try this one as you can trim tag ends really snug


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## Category6 (Nov 21, 2007)

I've used them on 20# so I could put more weight behind a cast without putting too much shock on the 20# knot, but with 40# I would probably take Mr. Bateman's advise and keep it simple. Get some of that UV knot dressing though, it's amazing for these type situations. I know FTU has it in their fly fishing section...doubt acrapemy has it, not sure about bass pro.


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## Fishin-Inc (May 27, 2004)

*too much*

Too much stuff sticking around on that knot. If you must throw a quick double line in there and be done. Never had a problem in a bunch of years. Play hard and change out that bait often.


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## justletmein (Feb 11, 2006)

It probably won't hurt too much on casting as the line is not tight and can just "move out of the way" as it passes through the guides. It may be an issue upon retrieval though. Most of my reels have 300 yards of power pro backing and when fishing in heavy weed it can sometimes bring a weed ball up and get stuck on the top eye.


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## Rebelsharker (May 4, 2009)

Norman Bateman said:


> Hi Dark_Ale:
> 
> Why tie any knot at all? Just use the line off the spool as it came from the store. I guess I'm just "old school" and don't understand the need for top shots and backing and all of that ****. To my thinking, all you're doing is creating problems for yourself to deal with at a later time-when you have a good fish on! Just my thoughts!
> 
> ...


I've had 100# big game rubbed through by bars, while the rod was on the rack. Why not run a topshot? Its more abrasion resistant, than braid or dacron, and if you tie a decent knot you shouldn't have to worry about it slipping.


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## REELING 65 (Aug 18, 2009)

Category5 said:


> Yes I do think it will snag the guides and be a problem. Try tying the same knot and trimming real close with a razor blade after it's snugged up really good, then treat it with some UV reactive fly fishing knot dressing. It's kinda like super glue but it doesn't set-up until you put it direct sunlight, then it sets 100% in a few seconds and makes a really smooth transition plus it locks the knot together so you won't ever have it slip even trimmed real close like that.


I use Gorilla Braid a lot of the time. If you are going to mono to mono. Then make sure the tag end's are cut clean. After you cinch down real good w/pliers. You must try the gorilla braid if you have not already work's well on my rig.


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## Category6 (Nov 21, 2007)

REELING 65 said:


> I use Gorilla Braid a lot of the time. If you are going to mono to mono. Then make sure the tag end's are cut clean. After you cinch down real good w/pliers. You must try the gorilla braid if you have not already work's well on my rig.


Is that hollow core braid or solid?


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## newsharker (Oct 31, 2009)

I agree with norman bateman. to me the top shot just overcomplicates things. the water is shallow clost to shore. that means that your braid is rubbing the sand etc anyways. fill it with braid and be done with it.


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## Rebelsharker (May 4, 2009)

newsharker said:


> I agree with norman bateman. to me the top shot just overcomplicates things. the water is shallow clost to shore. that means that your braid is rubbing the sand etc anyways. fill it with braid and be done with it.


How many times have you fished straight braid off the beach? Tying a topshot is not that difficult.


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## Torpedo (May 21, 2004)

That is a terrible knot. One of the worst I have ever seen posted on any fishing board in 10 years. Yes, it will cause problems not only on the reel and rod end but on the deep end.


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## Rebelsharker (May 4, 2009)

Torpedo said:


> That is a terrible knot. One of the worst I have ever seen posted on any fishing board in 10 years. Yes, it will cause problems not only on the reel and rod end but on the deep end.


Also that, and you probably want to trim those tag ends.


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## Norman Bateman (Aug 10, 2009)

Hi all:

I've used Dacron off the beach all of my life and never had a problem with abrision. Simply put a styrofoam float at the top of your leader and it will stay off the bar. The styrofoam will also help you find your leader in the morning if you get cut off during the night.

Best and tight lines,

Norman Bateman
www.ncbateman1.smugmug.com


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## Cylinder (Oct 8, 2006)

I use a Blood Knot to tie my leaders to my main line. I use 40# mono, blood knot in 50# or 60# for 5 or 6 feet, then blood knot to my leader which is 80# or 100# mono. I do this so I can wind my leaders through my guides but not get the knot of the leader on the spool. (I measure where the knot will be when I am in the casting position so I get the lenght right) But I have the stronger line on my spool so I can cast as hard as I want. If also allows for a better transition on line size...instead of going from 40 to 100, the transition from 40 to 60 is better and the transition from 60 to 100 is better.

Using this method, I don't have to deal with trying to cast a 5-6' leader when I'm standing is 4-5 foot of water. I can wind my line up to the short cable end where my weight and hook are positioned. This allows me to make much longer casts' from deeper water.

I used to make the heavy part of my leader 20' long but it meant winding that big knot onto the reel. This meant I had to be careful about where I put that knot on the reel when I was winding in because it will rip the #[email protected]$ out of your thumb when you cast. This also meant I couldn't put as much line on my reel to allow for the knot to clear the support post.

Last thought...when fishing from a pier, I will increase the lenght of my 50-60# by 20 feet. This means I can put more pressure on the fish when it is at the pier, helping keep it out of the pilings.

Hope this helps.

Roger


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## Rebelsharker (May 4, 2009)

Norman Bateman said:


> Hi all:
> 
> I've used Dacron off the beach all of my life and never had a problem with abrision. Simply put a styrofoam float at the top of your leader and it will stay off the bar. The styrofoam will also help you find your leader in the morning if you get cut off during the night.
> 
> ...


You might get away with that on some weekends now, but keeping one out is tough in rougher seas if there is any weed in the water. Which is most of the time.


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## Norman Bateman (Aug 10, 2009)

Hey Rebelsharker:

I fished the beach down at Big shell from '68 through '75 and never had a problem. Look at my record and then tell me "I just get away with it on some weekends. I told it like it was and I fish the same way now.

Best and tight lines,

Norman Bateman
www.ncbateman1.smugmug.com


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## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

Dark_ale said:


> Does anyone think this knot will get caught in the eye on the rod and give me a backlash from hell? Using a 12 foot American Rodsmith? Should I tied a differant knot?


I just always made sure that my shock leader was longer then I could cast.

most of my casting set ups were 30lb main line with a 50lb-60lb shock leader.


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## Rebelsharker (May 4, 2009)

Norman Bateman said:


> Hey Rebelsharker:
> 
> I fished the beach down at Big shell from '68 through '75 and never had a problem. Look at my record and then tell me "I just get away with it on some weekends. I told it like it was and I fish the same way now.
> 
> ...


Times change. I learned a lot from Hip and Allen, but I took those things I learned and added to it. We get a lot more sargassum than yall used to have, and running straight spectra every weekend is gonna get expensive. A topshot is not that complicated, to me its just laziness not to tie one. The benefits of a topshot far outweigh the cons. Another thing, the guy is asking about a castable reel. So a top float is not really applicable and a top shot is a necessity, especially in places with a deep drop off behind the bar or the high banks. Like I said, times change, and methods improve over time, otherwise we would still be throwing spears at our fish. Im not saying you can't get away with it on the long rods, but why risk it when you have better options. This ain't the sixties, and this ain't Florida.


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## Lone-Star (Dec 19, 2009)

Norman Bateman said:


> Hey Rebelsharker:
> 
> I fished the beach down at Big shell from '68 through '75 and never had a problem. Look at my record and then tell me "I just get away with it on some weekends. I told it like it was and I fish the same way now.
> 
> ...


I wasnt around in the 70s but I have been religously surf fishing for about 25 years and the sargassum has been worse in the past five or so years than it ever has been for me. It has definitly necessitated changes in tactics to work around.


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## Norman Bateman (Aug 10, 2009)

Hey Lone_Star:

I understand what your saying about the weed but as an old timer we faced the same types of weed back in the '60s and '70s. The weed problem is not unique. Yes, I do live in Florida now, but shark fishing has not changed and the methods we used back then do still apply today. If you would just listen to some of the things we say Your fishing may improve.

Best and tight lines,

Norman Bateman
Cape coral, Fl.
www.ncbateman1.smugmug.com


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## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

Norman Bateman said:


> Hey Lone_Star:
> 
> I understand what your saying about the weed but as an old timer we faced the same types of weed back in the '60s and '70s. The weed problem is not unique. Yes, I do live in Florida now, but shark fishing has not changed and the methods we used back then do still apply today. If you would just listen to some of the things we say Your fishing may improve.
> 
> ...


are you saying top shots catch less fish?


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## Norman Bateman (Aug 10, 2009)

Hey Rebalsharker:

I fished with Hip and Rickets also so what else is new? The advise I gave was just my opinion and not set in stone.

Best and tight lines,

Norman Bateman
Cape Coral, Fl.
www.ncbateman1.smugmug.com


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## Rebelsharker (May 4, 2009)

Norman Bateman said:


> Hey Rebalsharker:
> 
> The advise I gave was just my opinion and not set in stone.
> 
> ...


Same here, all I was saying was that I learned from the old sharkers, but I look at the things they did and used, and try to improve on that. Nothing is perfect. No hard feelings. I hope you get some of them big Florida sharks on your new reels.


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## 535 (May 23, 2004)

there's a huge difference in "top-shots" and "shock-leaders"

if you are casting over 3-5oz on a reel wit 20-30lb mono you definitely want to use a shock-leader...


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