# Good Flounder Wade Gone Bad...



## kickingback (Dec 20, 2013)

Went to one of my favorite spots this morning with my son to find some nice flatties. Thought it would be good with the small cold front that just passed. We got there and the tide was real low. We were pleasantly surprised to find three keeper flounder shallow then the bite stopped all of a sudden. We couldn't figure it out since we knew if we had three in 30 minutes that there were more for sure. So we waded a bit farther down from our spot to try and entice a bite where the current was moving a bit faster. We saw a pipe sticking up out of the water a bit further up so we waded to it and it was a #$%^ GILL NET!!! The net was tied to the pipe and was probably anchored to some rocks nearby. 
Now we knew why the flounder were not where they should have been. We pulled the net up to the flats and counted 40 flounder dead or dying tangled in the mess. We managed to save maybe 2 out of four we cut loose but they didn't swim far away as they looked almost dead.
Nothing makes me more angry than to see this #%$^ happening where I and others fish often. Made my son and I sick to our stomachs to see this.
To think that all 40 of those flounder would have made it to our spot for us to catch and cull but they got stopped by that net set by a poacher. That is the part that really ticked me off. It ruined a perfectly good wade...
We called the game warden right away and he came out about 30 minutes later and dragged the net to the shore and burned it with the flounder. I was told I could get a reward if they catch the scum that did it. I just want them to get caught and stop!
Got this video and some pictures...be warned...it is sickening to see...

Video 1: 




Video 2:


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## snapperlicious (Aug 11, 2009)

Dang


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## Guest (Nov 25, 2015)

It is really amazing just how many a-holes there are out there. I hope whomever set that gillnet gets cancer.


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## Bocephus (May 30, 2008)

You'd wish Cancer on someone ??? Wow


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## Zeitgeist (Nov 10, 2011)

Similar report posted about the bay side.of SWP. Terrible.


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## bubbas kenner (Sep 4, 2010)

Close the darn borders chihuahua.
Be vigilant guys add game wardens number to phone.
These ignorant fools don't deserve our resources.


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## capt. david (Dec 29, 2004)

Really sad is most folks are otherwise law abiding until it comes to game laws.


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## 2thDr (Jan 25, 2014)

If you find one, walk away. Likely being watched. Call warden, pretend to leave. circle back later for priceless reward! Donate $ to CCA


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## bubbas kenner (Sep 4, 2010)

capt. david said:


> Really sad is most folks are otherwise law abiding until it comes to game laws.


I'm not sure who when or how but just going to the dike and swp are plenty unlicensed unlawful wanna bees.The GWs need us as much as we need more of them.Im getting sick of the can tossing bucket filling fools,sorry caption Dave in no way mean to offend your reply buddy.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Nov 4, 2011)

2thDr said:


> If you find one, walk away. Likely being watched. Call warden, pretend to leave. circle back later for priceless reward! Donate $ to CCA


If you want these people to get caught leave the net, call the game warden and they can wait for the owners to come check it and bust them. You can't catch them now that their honey pot is gone.


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## Crusader (Jan 31, 2014)

Bocephus said:


> You'd wish Cancer on someone ??? Wow


I agree -- he is going too easy on him. Leprosy would be better...


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## Steven H (Jan 15, 2006)

Had no idea such a short one could do so much damage. Looks like a volleyball net more or less, I have seen them using them on TV for salmon but thats about it. Plan on going tomorrow in the yak myself, annual tradition.


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## FSSU3 (Nov 18, 2015)

I agree with "2th" and "Smack" leave them there and call the warden, as bad as it may be, can't catch the poachers if there's no evidence. Sad site, I'm not one to wish bad things upon someone but they deserve the punishment for the crime committed. Fish on my friends.


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## gater (May 25, 2004)

*Borders*



bubbas kenner said:


> Close the darn borders chihuahua.
> Be vigilant guys add game wardens number to phone.
> These ignorant fools don't deserve our resources.


What does the borders have to with anything. If I had to bet, it was some low life honky running that net.


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## Drifter (May 23, 2004)

White trash or illegal alien.....imo!!!

Drifter


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

Two thoughts on this. These guys are extremely brash. Setting gill nets in some of the most heavily fished areas on the coast like SWP and SLP? They are just begging for jail time, heavy fines and losing a truck. 40 flounder at roughly 3 pounds a piece is 120 pounds total. Going rate is 3.00 to 3.50 a pound for a total haul of roughly 400.00? Certainly not worth the risk in my book.

Secondly it looks like the stocks are extremely healthy and I think I would pass on the crowds at SWP for a little more room at SLP.


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## pocjetty (Sep 12, 2014)

Let's write a story:

So if you were setting a gill net, would you wait until daylight to tend it? Of course not. These days, the chance of someone seeing and identifying you are too close to 100%. So why was this one still in the water the next day?

There are lots of possiblel reasons, but the most likely to me is that it's a small-ish jon boat, and the cold front made it too rough to get back out to their net. It also makes me think it had been there for a couple of nights - back before the front hit. So they probably planned to go tend the net on Saturday night, and the front came in sooner than they expected? Or maybe they just drank too much beer and fell asleep.

So where's the nearest place that someone would likely launch a crappy little jon boat, to run dark to this location? If I lived in your neck of the woods, that's where I'd keep an eye out. Especially if you're getting on the water way before dawn. I don't think they would take time on the water to empty and untangle that net, so they would just haul it loaded into the boat. That's a hard thing to disguise.

If you're launching in this area, and see a boat coming in when he ought to be going out, be a little nosy. If you have a CHL, it might also be a good idea to be prepared.

Much as I hate to say it, the lack of flounder boats at night makes it easier for these guys to sneak around. Maybe gill nets take less flounder overall than a bunch of flounder boats would? But I really, really hate gill nets.


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## skinnywaterfishin (Jul 1, 2015)

Steven H said:


> Had no idea such a short one could do so much damage. Looks like a volleyball net more or less, I have seen them using them on TV for salmon but thats about it. Plan on going tomorrow in the yak myself, annual tradition.


Native Alaskans are allowed to net.


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## Trouthappy (Jun 12, 2008)

It's a shame those flounder weren't iced down and donated to a church fish fry or something. Looks like the meth heads will have to buy another net.


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## coker101 (Jun 13, 2014)

Drifter said:


> White trash or illegal alien.....imo!!!
> 
> Drifter


lol....those were my exact thoughts when I saw this post.


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

pocjetty said:


> Let's write a story:
> 
> So if you were setting a gill net, would you wait until daylight to tend it? Of course not. These days, the chance of someone seeing and identifying you are too close to 100%. So why was this one still in the water the next day?
> 
> ...


I will go with this scenario.

I don't think they even needed a boat. Looks like the GW just rolled up in his truck pulled it in and disposed of it.

The sum bags probably did not even have a boat. Just rolled up in their beat up truck waded out a short piece of gill net. Proceeded to get drunk the rest of the night and did not even have the discipline to get up and get out of dodge with their loot.


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## pocjetty (Sep 12, 2014)

Its Catchy said:


> I will go with this scenario.
> 
> *I don't think they even needed a boat. Looks like the GW just rolled up in his truck pulled it in and disposed of it.*
> 
> The sum bags probably did not even have a boat. Just rolled up in their beat up truck waded out a short piece of gill net. Proceeded to get drunk the rest of the night and did not even have the discipline to get up and get out of dodge with their loot.


Oh, man - you're right. If they have a drive-up spot, it will be a lot harder for people like us to catch them. Someone would have to know the exact spot and stake it out.

And, yeah, that means that they were just too lazy to come collect their net full of fish. Illogical, but now I'm even more annoyed.


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## [email protected] (May 24, 2004)

One sure way to stop it...has nothing to do with enforcement or catching perps. There will be a big outcry and some pushback at first but all it would take would be removing the profit opportunity....ban the sale of flounder....just like redfish and trout. 

The gig season is closed and the commercially available fresh whole flounder to the restaurant trade has probably been exhausted. Those small nets are not the tools of large scale operators, more the type of "ghost net" you'd expect in a well-travelled place deployed for very short periods planning to make small-quick catches. The back door price to a restaurant that'll play the game right now is probably way higher than when gig season is open. Quick way to grab several hundred $$ for a quicky net set and there will always be somebody willing to take the risk.

Ban the commercial sale and the problem fixes itself!


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## chickenboy (May 5, 2008)

Good commentary EJ. I hope to see more written about this. A call to action. Crazy to have a two fish limit when flounder remains a commercial product. 


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

[email protected] said:


> One sure way to stop it...has nothing to do with enforcement or catching perps. There will be a big outcry and some pushback at first but all it would take would be removing the profit opportunity....ban the sale of flounder....just like redfish and trout.
> 
> The gig season is closed and the commercially available fresh whole flounder to the restaurant trade has probably been exhausted. Those small nets are not the tools of large scale operators, more the type of "ghost net" you'd expect in a well-travelled place deployed for very short periods planning to make small-quick catches. The back door price to a restaurant that'll play the game right now is probably way higher than when gig season is open. Quick way to grab several hundred $$ for a quicky net set and there will always be somebody willing to take the risk.
> 
> Ban the commercial sale and the problem fixes itself!


Would not be effective. Most of the flounder sold in Texas comes from Louisiana or other states on the east coast that still have commercial netting operations. You can't prohibit legitimate intrastate commerce. How would we tell a flounder caught in Texas from one in Louisiana?

Plus it just adds needless unenforceable paperwork to legitimate harvesters, retail markets and Restaurants.

There is always going to be bad apples you don't punish legitimate operators because of few ******** or illegals trying to make a quick buck.


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

Keep in mind the sale of Redfish and trout is not "banned" in Texas. Redfish and trout can be legally obtained in just about every fish market in Texas. They just come from fish farms or other states that still allow a commercial harvest.


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

That's sad for sure.


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## [email protected] (May 24, 2004)

Catchy - You are correct on all counts, but how much speckled trout and red drum commercial trade do you find being conducted in Texas? Not very darn much! 

Oh you'll see some farmed red drum product occasionally and just every once in a while maybe some speckled trout trucked in via a major/national wholesale seafood company, caught and processed in a state where it's still legal. Flounder is a whole other situation because the commerce is legal!

As for the product entering Texas from other states, the folks handling/selling must keep their paperwork trail pretty darn tidy.

How often do you see speckled trout and redfish featured on restaurant menus? It'd go over about as well as a fart in church!


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## Whipray (Mar 12, 2007)

any place to put a game camera around that spot?


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

[email protected],

I guess Landry's smells like farts in church! Blackened Redfish and Trout Almandine has been a staple of restaurants up and down the Gulf Coast for decades

We have plenty of regulations in place. Gill nets, limited entry programs. Outlawing the commercial take on flounder will just drive up the price and make it more tempting for outlaws to make a quick buck.

Kind of like the war on drugs.

Blackened Redfish with Crawfish Etouffee$23.99
Blackened redfish with rice and asparagus.

http://www.grubhub.com/restaurant/landrys-seafood-house-1212-lake-robbins-dr-the-woodlands/230760


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## [email protected] (May 24, 2004)

Check with Landry's and run down the source of the redfish fillets if you can. Make you a bet it is farm-raised (if in fact it is even redfish.)


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

[email protected] said:


> Check with Landry's and run down the source of the redfish fillets if you can. Make you a bet it is farm-raised (if in fact it is even redfish.)


One would think and hope the source is a legally operating legitimate supplier.

But the bottom line is regulation does not keep redfish, trout or flounder off of local menus. Outlawing a commercial take in Texas won't keep incidents like this from happening, most likely it will drive the price up making incidents like this more common.

The key to stopping outlaws like this is not more needless and unenforceable regulation that does nothing more than drive the cost for local restaurants which will be passed on down to the consumer.

It's more enforcement and programs like operation game thief.


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## kickingback (Dec 20, 2013)

Just to make sure you all understood...I called the game warden FIRST upon finding the net. That is what you are REQUIRED to do. The GW asks first for tags or markers as THEY sometimes put nets out themselves. (bet some of you didn't know that).
Since no markings, the GW told me I could pull it up and throw them all in the nearest trash dumpster on the beach and they would dispose of it since there were no markings or tags to identify who placed it. I told him I didn't want to drag it 300 yds to the beach as it was heavy with all the dead flounder and I was loaded with gear and he said he would just come out and burn them. No problem. He was happy to help and I was too.
They get this information from the caller and they tell them what to do next. I do not recommend touching or moving a criminal violation until you speak directly to the authorities. They in turn direct you as a good angler what to do to help.
Hope this clarifies for those that misunderstood or had no experience in dealing with crimes the Game Warden handles.
You can read more at the TPWD website and hand books.


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## [email protected] (May 24, 2004)

Catchy - No comment as regards the source of said red drum and speckled trout fillets that appear on Texas restaurant menus, except to hope it is all legally obtained. Commercial landings of red drum and speckled trout are very tightly controlled with very small (almost inconsequential) landings, even in states where it is legal. Fact is, speckled trout are increasingly rare as menu items and while red drum is common in some venues it is very difficult to imagine these are wild-caught. Aquaculture! Goggle some commercial landings data and you will see what I mean. 

But, back to the original topic of illegal take of southern flounder in Texas, you are an old or ex-commercial fisherman, exactly how effective would you truthfully expect additional enforcement effort might be? Shared-use fisheries, especially as pertains to flounder in Texas, is destines to become a thing of the past as commercial participation dwindles.

Look at the facts - how many commercial finfish licenses still exist and how many are being used for flounder? I have friends who are commercial flounder fishermen. They are regulated to only 30 fish per day during a ten and a half month season, and how many days of those months can they actually get 30, or any number that justifies the effort for that matter? The answer for the guys determined to hang on is to get a recreational fishing guide license and run rec flounder gigging trips. These guys are already excellent watermen and they know better than anybody where/how/when to get flounder. Put three or four recs on the boat and make $500+ per night plus tips! Beats heck out of commercial gigging in my book and likely theirs too!


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## Bayscout22 (Aug 9, 2007)

I can promise you the trout almondine in any restaurant isn't local, wild caught. If it was, it would be twice the price.

As for the red fish, I'd bet most of it is tilapia. Some estimates say that 80% of the fish you get in restaurants is misidentified. Probably because no one in the food chain - the guy who grows or catches it, the wholesaler, the restaurant - have any interest what so ever in not making the sale.


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

[email protected]

The commercial catch of flounder is small probably less than a 100 guys actively targeting flounder. And their yearly take was probably just reduced by 30% with the outlawing of gigging in November and 1/2 of December the heart of the fall migration.

As you point out the commercial landings are small some would say inconsequential. So what benefit is it making restaurants and fish markets jump through more needless paperwork that just drives up costs to the consumer for a relatively small result if any. Long story short lots more needless regulation for little to no gain from a fisheries management standpoint. The worst possible kind of regulation.

Secondly there is a license buyback program in place to retire these licenses slowly over time that offers an incentive to leave the industry vs. forcing them out via regulation with nothing to show for their lives work.

It's worked great for the shrimp, crab and finish industries, lets let it keep working. I for one would not like to see my industry regulated out of existence with nothing to show for it.


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## pwooly (Dec 2, 2012)

Such a **** shame. 

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## TranTheMan (Aug 17, 2009)

Zeitgeist said:


> Similar report posted about the bay side.of SWP. Terrible.


The GW said they know who set the net at SWP!!!


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## Zeitgeist (Nov 10, 2011)

TranTheMan said:


> The GW said they know who set the net at SWP!!!


Good deal!


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## kenny (May 21, 2004)

There have been poachers at SWP since at least 1980. That's when I saw the first trotlines on the channel side before the park. these lines were 100' long. The poachers had a makeshift bumshelter in the scrub. I kind of always figured they were homeless, or at least itinerant.


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## Lone-Star (Dec 19, 2009)

Yeah lets screw over the legitimate commercial guys because of some meth heads poaching flounder.

Drive the commercial fishermen into extinction and the meth heads will still be breaking laws, it's not the commercials doing this stuff they would never risk their license over a couple hundred dollar worth of flounder.


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## ToddyTrout (Mar 15, 2005)

I have to set the record strait for the misinformed on here. The violation for using a gill net is a class C misdemeanor. There is NO Forfeiture of license for this violations. There are a few coms on here that want you to think that all coms now a days are just good hard working people that would NEVER risk their livelihood for a few hundred bucks. Folks, it happens every day!!! Very few com license have ever been revoked for commercial violations EVER! I was in that war for 27 years and we as Texas Game Wardens have been frustrated for years arresting the same people over and over for the same things and there is know help from the courts to stop them as the court looks at game violations as a minor violation of the law. So when catchy speaks be VERY Leary of what he says. Coms are hard working folks no doubt, but the majority of them WILL break a game law in a heart beat if they think they can make some quick cash!


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## Crusader (Jan 31, 2014)

[email protected] said:


> Ban the commercial sale and the problem fixes itself!


It won't fix the problem completely -- a lot of fish being sold at asian fish markets were bought illegally from recreational anglers looking to supplement their income and poachers. This will continue even with ban in effect -- it'll just drive prices down (because now fish will have to be processed and labelled as crabmeat or smth)... Or maybe even drive prices up -- since it'll become the only option to buy flounder for consumers.

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## Crusader (Jan 31, 2014)

Its Catchy said:


> [email protected]
> 
> The commercial catch of flounder is small probably less than a 100 guys actively targeting flounder. And their yearly take was probably just reduced by 30% with the outlawing of gigging in November and 1/2 of December the heart of the fall migration.


Assuming you are correct -- how about flounders caught as a by-catch? I observe boats dragging nets in GSC every flounder run every year...

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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

Crusader said:


> Assuming you are correct -- how about flounders caught as a by-catch? I observe boats dragging nets in GSC every flounder run every year...
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk


Crusader, Shrimp boat by catch is strictly monitored and subject to the 5% rule. If they are allowed to keep any its just a couple.


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## Crusader (Jan 31, 2014)

Its Catchy said:


> Crusader, Shrimp boat by catch is strictly monitored and subject to the 5% rule. If they are allowed to keep any its just a couple.


Got it. Didn't know about 5% rule. Do you know how does it work? (I.e. 5% of what?)

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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

ToddyTrout said:


> I have to set the record strait for the misinformed on here. The violation for using a gill net is a class C misdemeanor. There is NO Forfeiture of license for this violations. There are a few coms on here that want you to think that all coms now a days are just good hard working people that would NEVER risk their livelihood for a few hundred bucks. Folks, it happens every day!!! Very few com license have ever been revoked for commercial violations EVER! I was in that war for 27 years and we as Texas Game Wardens have been frustrated for years arresting the same people over and over for the same things and there is know help from the courts to stop them as the court looks at game violations as a minor violation of the law. So when catchy speaks be VERY Leary of what he says. Coms are hard working folks no doubt, but the majority of them WILL break a game law in a heart beat if they think they can make some quick cash!


Toddy,

You did not learn much from your days of driving boats for TPWD.

Possession of gill net in State waters is class A misdemeanor.

Each fish is a class C misdemeanor

Then there is civil restitution, and the boat, truck and trailer is subject to seizure and loss of license.

The net in question with flounder would have probably resulted in 50,000 plus in fines, restitution or confiscation. I know people who have been completely ruined for bad decisions.

There is no way on earth a legitimate licensed commercial fisherman is going to risk all that.


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## ToddyTrout (Mar 15, 2005)

Catchy..............aw never mind, LOL!


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

Galveston County Criminal District Attorney's Office
Jack Roady
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

MAN SENTENCED TO 180 DAYS IN COUNTY JAIL FOR POSSESSING ILLEGAL GILL NETS

June 9, 2015

Just to prove you are full of it. You can't get 180 days in jail for a class C. Not exactly a slap on the wrist now is it.


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## Crusader (Jan 31, 2014)

Crusader said:


> Got it. Didn't know about 5% rule. Do you know how does it work? (I.e. 5% of what?)


Does anyone know what exactly this "5% rule" is? I can't find it online. Only things like average bycatch rate in Texas bays (~5lb per 1 lb of shrimp).


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

Crusader,

This from TPWD Commercial fishing handbook:

c Flounder Special Regulation:

On board a licensed commercial shrimp boat the limit is equal to the recreational limit per each per- son with a current shrimp boat captainâ€™s license and is subject to the 50% bycatch rule
(See Page 27 â€” SHRIMP)

You can dowload the manual online and go to page 27 for an explanation


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## Crusader (Jan 31, 2014)

Its Catchy said:


> Crusader,
> 
> This from TPWD Commercial fishing handbook:
> 
> ...


Thank you. I spent some time reading this. Basically:
- 50% bycatch rule means retained non-game species (flounder is not a game fish) weight should not be more than 50% of retained shrimp weight
- in addition to that at least 50% of shrimp has to be kept alive -- no sunscreen on a shrimpt boat, I guess 
- during flounder run flounder limit for shrimp boat is the same as for any recreational angler (i.e. 2 per person)
- in bays shrimp limit is 200lb
- can't trawl passes leading to Gulf

Looks straightforward enough... Bycatch rule doesn't even matter during flounder run.

So, basically shrimp boat throws most of fish back in the water? I wonder what is the mortality rate -- i.e. how often flounder (or juvenile flounder) doesn't survive this?


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## kickingback (Dec 20, 2013)

From the TPWD Outdoor Annual...
Game Fish: (includes hybrids or subspecies of fish on this list): 

Bass: Guadalupe, largemouth, smallmouth, spotted, striped, white, yellow
Catfish: blue, channel, flathead
Cobia
Crappie: black, white
Mackerel: king, Spanish
Marlin: blue, white
Pickerel
Red drum
Sailfish
Sauger
Seatrout, spotted
Sharks
Snook
Spearfish, longbill
Swordfish, broadbill
Tarpon
Tripletail
Trout: brown, rainbow
Wahoo
Walleye
Nongame Fish:All species not listed as game fish except endangered and threatened fish which are defined and regulated under separate rules."

So...Flounder - Non game fish but regulated.


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

Crusader said:


> Thank you. I spent some time reading this. Basically:
> - 50% bycatch rule means retained non-game species (flounder is not a game fish) weight should not be more than 50% of retained shrimp weight
> - in addition to that at least 50% of shrimp has to be kept alive -- no sunscreen on a shrimpt boat, I guess
> - during flounder run flounder limit for shrimp boat is the same as for any recreational angler (i.e. 2 per person)
> ...


Mortality rate varies by species and boat. Bait shrimp boats usually only drag 15 to 30 minutes as they are trying to keep shrimp alive for bait camps. Boats shrimping under the authority of a bay shrimp license likely have a higher mortality rate.

Due to a limited entry program inshore shrimping pressure has been reduced from thousands of boats in the mid 1980's to a few hundred today.


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## Crusader (Jan 31, 2014)

Its Catchy said:


> Mortality rate varies by species and boat. Bait shrimp boats usually only drag 15 to 30 minutes as they are trying to keep shrimp alive for bait camps. Boats shrimping under the authority of a bay shrimp license likely have a higher mortality rate.
> 
> Due to a limited entry program inshore shrimping pressure has been reduced from thousands of boats in the mid 1980's to a few hundred today.


I know it is hard to estimate, but (in your opinion/experience/belief system) what is the typical mortality rate for flounders (and any other specie) caught in shrimp boat nets (in the bay)?

I imagine it is a sad situation -- forcing fishermen to discard fish that is going to die anyway... Because if we don't -- they will start taking advantage of this.


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

Crusader said:


> I know it is hard to estimate, but (in your opinion/experience/belief system) what is the typical mortality rate for flounders (and any other specie) caught in shrimp boat nets (in the bay)?
> 
> I imagine it is a sad situation -- forcing fishermen to discard fish that is going to die anyway... Because if we don't -- they will start taking advantage of this.


Crusader,

Thats a great question.

How long have they been drug in a shrimp net? As I said boats that are catching live shrimp for bait camps the flounder mortality is very low. It's higher for shrimp boats that are dragging longer for table shrimp.

Are we talking mature flounder or younger ones? The younger ones have a higher mortality and my personal experience is the mature bigger flounder do quite well.

I don't want to trivialize the mortality rate of commercial shrimp boats on flounder. But considering we have reduced the number of actual shrimp boats working our bays from over several thousand in the mid 1980's to a few hundred nowaday's it's hard for me to think by catch is much of an issue.


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## Lexy1 (Jul 12, 2012)

Bypass mortality rate is about the same as flinging mortality rate.


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## fishingtwo (Feb 23, 2009)

Depends on how long they flop around in the dirt.


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## Lone-Star (Dec 19, 2009)

ToddyTrout said:


> I have to set the record strait for the misinformed on here. The violation for using a gill net is a class C misdemeanor. There is NO Forfeiture of license for this violations. There are a few coms on here that want you to think that all coms now a days are just good hard working people that would NEVER risk their livelihood for a few hundred bucks. Folks, it happens every day!!! Very few com license have ever been revoked for commercial violations EVER! I was in that war for 27 years and we as Texas Game Wardens have been frustrated for years arresting the same people over and over for the same things and there is know help from the courts to stop them as the court looks at game violations as a minor violation of the law. So when catchy speaks be VERY Leary of what he says. Coms are hard working folks no doubt, but the majority of them WILL break a game law in a heart beat if they think they can make some quick cash!


 One guy around here got 4 years in the state pen for redfish, doesn't sound like they treated it like a minor violation. The majority of the repeat offenders you speak of are not license holders, they either have no license at all or are leasing a license.

If you are ticketed as a license holder for any game violation you cannot renew your license until the resititution has been paid.

My wife is a commercial license holder and I help her part-time, I assure you the overwhelming majority of commercials are good people that respect the resource.


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## Crusader (Jan 31, 2014)

Its Catchy said:


> Crusader,
> 
> Thats a great question.
> 
> ...


To be fair, number of boats does not necessarily have impact that increases linearly. I.e. (depending on circumstances) 100 boats can do almost as much damage as 1000. But unfortunately I don't have enough knowledge to have a credible opinion on this topic. But it is clear that flounder was significantly more abundant decades ago. Let's hope it keeps "rebounding".


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## pocjetty (Sep 12, 2014)

Crusader said:


> To be fair, number of boats does not necessarily have impact that increases linearly. I.e. (depending on circumstances) 100 boats can do almost as much damage as 1000. But unfortunately I don't have enough knowledge to have a credible opinion on this topic. But it is clear that flounder was significantly more abundant decades ago. Let's hope it keeps "rebounding".


I used to wade the Boggy shoreline at POC a lot. I went one afternoon and the shoreline was clean. The next day, shrimping season opened. The shoreline had a strip of dead fish that was probably 15"-18" wide. There were dead croaker, shad, sharks, turtles, juvenile trout and redfish, and pretty much everything else you could imagine. And it went on as far as I could see in both directions. I walked the shoreline for a couple of miles, and never saw a break in it, and it still went as far ahead as I could see. (Before anyone questions the truth of it, I called the Victoria news station and they sent someone down. They interviewed me there and showed the shoreline with the massive amount of dead fish on TV.)

That was probably somewhere around 1982. There were a LOT more shrimp boats, and that's how much bycatch damage they did in a single day. I'm sure each boat culls as much or more bycatch each day now, but there are just so many fewer of them.

One of my biggest concerns for these bays is the relative scarcity of adult croaker. I know they're out there somewhere, because they still catch juveniles. But they were such a big part of the ecosystem, and I'm convinced that it was shrimp boat bycatch that decimated the population. The crabs bounced back when we got some rain. I hope the croaker population will somehow recover to at least resemble what it once was.


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## Salty Dog (Jan 29, 2005)

Croaker are starting to come back some. I caught a bunch of big croaks this year. It is sure good to see them again and I hope they keep growing in numbers.


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## Crusader (Jan 31, 2014)

pocjetty said:


> One of my biggest concerns for these bays is the relative scarcity of adult croaker. I know they're out there somewhere, because they still catch juveniles. But they were such a big part of the ecosystem, and I'm convinced that it was shrimp boat bycatch that decimated the population. The crabs bounced back when we got some rain. I hope the croaker population will somehow recover to at least resemble what it once was.


Agreed, it seems that long ago croaker was a large (huge?) portion of the bottom of a food chain. Don't know if mullet and others have filled it after croaker declined.

If anyone here remembers 70s/80s -- how numerous croakers were back then (compared to today)?


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## [email protected] (May 24, 2004)

I seriously doubt whether a factual case for decline of "keeper" croaker in Texas bays could be traced to shrimping activity and/or the current popularity of live croaker for bait.

Let's look at it this way: For a host of reasons present-day commercial shrimping effort in Texas bays is but a fraction (perhaps less than 20%) of what was seen in the 70s, 80s and 90s. Fewer hours of trawling effort will add up to greatly reduced bycatch, so we can ditch the bycatch idea right there.

I would also say that croakers being caught and sold as bait holds about as much water as a sieve. Check around with the bait camps operators and/or the shrimpers turned croaker catchers who pull for them. Generally speaking, juvenile croaker in the bays are as numerous today as they ever were. This can be verified through TPWD Coastal Fisheries trawl net sampling data if you need more proof.


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## Wado (May 15, 2011)

Here you go boys and girls. I spent a lot of money on these things and lost a lot of shrimp out of them. I will let everybody in on a little secret, the guys that inspect and enforce the use of these pack weapons and they ain't game wardens. If you jack with one of those guys be prepared to spend some time away from the wife.
http://www.lsu.edu/seagrantfish/management/TEDs&BRDs/brds.htm


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## kickingback (Dec 20, 2013)

Just thought I'd let you know that I found ANOTHER gil net in the same spot I found this one I originally posted about. 
This one fortunately did not have any flounder in it. Pulled it out and left it on the sand beach near shallows for Game Warden.
Called the Game Warden again and he came out to get the net and burn it.
I should have asked him if he was going to post someone to watch that spot because I talked to someone today and they said they saw the game warden come out the day before and burn another gil net from the same location.
Maybe I can get that reward if they catch these low life scum.


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## The1ThatGotAway (Jun 24, 2009)

Last post of the thread. http://2coolfishing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1717202


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## chumy (Jul 13, 2012)

Wado said:


> Here you go boys and girls. I spent a lot of money on these things and lost a lot of shrimp out of them. I will let everybody in on a little secret, the guys that inspect and enforce the use of these pack weapons and they ain't game wardens. If you jack with one of those guys be prepared to spend some time away from the wife.
> http://www.lsu.edu/seagrantfish/management/TEDs&BRDs/brds.htm


Looks like an old fishing hook with a little mono that accidently got caught in your trawl would keep those openings closed. If I was a shrimper, this would be a constant occurance........


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## Wado (May 15, 2011)

chumy said:


> Looks like an old fishing hook with a little mono that accidently got caught in your trawl would keep those openings closed. If I was a shrimper, this would be a constant occurance........


#1 The turtle shooter cops know that trick.
#2 It will blow about two grand worth of net and devices up after dragging all the junk trapped in it for about eight hours at night in the gulf in rough seas, better hope nothing gets trapped in there. Multiply that by four on a gulf boat. Been there and done that just in the bay. Pick up and all you have left is a rag. A grown man can actually crawl out of the holes in the nets. A young man I shrimped with back in the day works for NMFS and did some diving for them during the development of these devices. They have been tested rather vigorously. You comply or go to jail, period.

That information I shared is very basic, they have changed a lot of designs and always are improving. We used to stretch light ropes across the mouths of our nets to try and get rid of ribbon fish and believe it or not croakers, I wanted clean shrimp when I picked up.


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## tracker17 (Oct 30, 2011)

man that is some [email protected]#@#@ed up stuff!! Beautiful fish, now wasted. BTW, I can't figure out SWP? SLP, POC, ROP, ok. But I don't know SWP.


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## tracker17 (Oct 30, 2011)

It just hit me! Sea Wolf Park! haha Damned acronyms get confusing after awhile, may be just my brain getting old! haha


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