# Eights



## poco jim (Jun 28, 2010)

So with all the talk about eight pointers I ask you gentlemen, is an eight always gonna be an eight? I've been told this my whole life, and I know a lot of big ranches have cull hunts for eights, so what do you all say?:cheers:


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## SSST (Jun 9, 2011)

Good post, I was always told the same thing, and for the most part, I bet that is pretty accurate, but I'll wait for the experts to weigh in.


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## wampuscat (Jun 30, 2009)

Maybe always an eight, maybe more, but what's wrong with eights.


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## rubberducky (Mar 19, 2010)

There is nothing more beautiful then a big 8 but that's just me
James


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk because Reeltime told me to


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## poco jim (Jun 28, 2010)

Nothing, got some young ones and just wondering, as we switch gears a little next year on the deer we allow to be taken.


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## mudcatz71 (Jun 8, 2006)

x2 on first two replies


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## poco jim (Jun 28, 2010)

wampuscat said:


> Maybe always an eight, maybe more, but what's wrong with eights.


By the buddy, that's a heck of a deer!


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## Rubberback (Sep 9, 2008)

They say an eights an eight but you never know could change if the conditions are right & the genes are there. Animals, need the right grub to grow horns. Some are better at eating the right stuff . Big horns are left to breed for a reason. My problem is I have a small farm & neighbors. The deer never mature there's potential but never live long enough.


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## Law Dog (Jul 27, 2010)

There is nothing wrong with that awesome 8, Congrats!!!!!


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## BretE (Jan 24, 2008)

Ive seen a real good main frame 9 at 5 1/2 go to a monster 10 the next year.....seen a mid 160's main frame 10 with double drops go to a straight 10 the next year....no drops.......you never know......


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## fisher__man (Jan 13, 2006)

I have seen many 3.5yo 8pt turn into much more but after 4.5yo the 8s I have seen normaly do not turn into much more. Not saying that a 4.5yo 8pt will not turn into a great 12 just not what I have seen in my limited experience. But an 8 is not an 8 forever.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Normally once an 8 always an 8 but that is not always in concrete. It can change but not very often so why take a chance ? Odds are not in your favor..


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## BIG PAPPA (Apr 1, 2008)

*If you take them under 7.5.....*

You'll really never know taking them out at 5.5-6.5 or younger. And if your Feeding them, alot can Happen and will. Here's an 8 for 4.5 years and then he started Breaking all the Eight Point Rules. when he was taken at 8.5 yrs old he Scored 209 on a Freinds Ranch in McMullen County. Maybe Konan can chime in here and give the year by year growth of this (8) that went off the charts. He Watched this deer year to year.


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## TIMBOv2 (Mar 18, 2010)

BIG PAPPA said:


> You'll really never know taking them out at 5.5-6.5 or younger. And if your Feeding them, alot can Happen and will. Here's an 8 for 4.5 years and then he started Breaking all the Eight Point Rules. when he was taken at 8.5 yrs old he Scored 209 on a Freinds Ranch in McMullen County. Maybe Konan can chime in here and give the year by year growth of this (8) that went off the charts. He Watched this deer year to year.


 DAM, what a hoss


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## broadonrod (Feb 26, 2010)

That is what we are seeing here Big Pappa ... We leave our big eights .... We are watching one now that was an eight for 5 years and now is a monster 14... Age is what we have found to be the key to our best bucks....8-1/2 to 9-1/2 seems to be the magic # here ...... Many of our trophies have been big eights and nines that exploded into 15-20 points... Age and opportunity seems to be the key..... Wish I could post some pics but bad service here I may text you some to post later.... Or you and your wonderful wife just swing on by and have another campfire cocktail with us one night this week!!!:spineyes: " Dont hate an eight"  Brett


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## BIG PAPPA (Apr 1, 2008)

*Aint that the truth???*



broadonrod said:


> That is what we are seeing here Big Pappa ... We leave our big eights .... We are watching one now that was an eight for 5 years and now is a monster 14... Age is what we have found to be the key to our best bucks....8-1/2 to 9-1/2 seems to be the magic # here ...... Many of our trophies have been big eights and nines that exploded into 15-20 points... Age and opportunity seems to be the key..... Wish I could post some pics but bad service here I may text you some to post later.... Or you and your wonderful wife just swing on by and have another campfire cocktail with us one night this week!!!:spineyes: " Dont hate an eight"  Brett


I actually saw the Best Paradigmned managed Ranch In my life a few weeks back. A Buddy told me exactly what you just said. My dream is a 180 class 8 point, so if you take out a 170 class 8, He'll never get there. And then there's that age thingy that comes into play...With age...All HayYell Breaks loose with thos Antlers. If you can Afford to feed'm, then Give them the chance to supprise you. 
After goin to that place close to Eagle Pass, whether or not we get a spot there, we will Manage our animals the exact same way..we will see you soon My Brother.


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## Captn C (May 21, 2004)

While I agree that by time an 8pt reaches 8.5 to 9.5yo anything can happen. Not many ranches are willing to invest that much time in a deer. I managed a high fence ranch for several years and we were too small to keep a deer that long hoping great things would happen.

That said; on the place I managed, a 2.5 10pt would be kept and 2.5 6pt would most likely go into the cooler. I'm not sure many of us have the ability to wait out an 8pt when the food being ate by the 8pt could go to the young 10pts. We shot little bodied spike because most were 1.3yo late fawns...didn't want to waste food trying to get them caught up.

It all depends on how much land you have and how much time you have...if you own a big ranch you can handle it differently than someone leaseing a small tract.


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## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

> There is nothing more beautiful then a big 8


Unless it's a beautiful 10 

TH


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Well like mentioned above its all different for different ranches and what you can do. No question that "things" can happen with age but I dont want to take the chance that some 8 someday will turn into some type of monster. Certainly it can happen but I dont think the odds are too good. But I am not condeming anything others do.
Ya know I think that a 10 can do the same thing and as Troughunter states nothing prettier that a big 8 except maybe a big ten or 12. 

We have a big wide 8 again this year and he's been hiding out past few hunts. He better now show cuz he's going to turn into sausage.. Management deer


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## poco jim (Jun 28, 2010)

Thanks for all the info guys!


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## deerdude2000 (Feb 17, 2006)

Brett changed my management program i'm leaving al the good 8's that have the beams and tines and see what they do and taking out the bucks no matter how many pt's that don't score over 130 at 4yr olds!! I have seen a pen deer that had 18-20 pt's get bred to 20-30 does and was a 8pt the next year bred 10-15 does that year and was 20 plus pts the next year!!!!


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## kanga69 (Mar 17, 2011)

Great debate. I have been told by our biologist that a deer will put everything into his body for the first four years and the next 4 - 5 years into antler production. If you have a 3 year old 8 that isn't impressive, shoot him. Deer that show potential in the 3 - 4 year old range, and are at least an 8 pt, stretch them out another year or two to see what you have. We shoot a lot of 8's because most of them don't have the height and/or width that we would like to see and are in the 3 - 4 age bracket. We also shoot anything less than an 8, and is at least 3 years old. I think this is working for the simple reason that we do not see very many 5 year old 8s that we need to shoot. Lots of 9s and 10s when they get a little age on them.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

here are a couple of pictures of our 8. Pictures are not too good (far away). I havent shot this year so he better not show. Maybe some sausage and tamales.. good hunting guys


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## Konan (Jul 13, 2009)

BIG PAPPA said:


> You'll really never know taking them out at 5.5-6.5 or younger. And if your Feeding them, alot can Happen and will. Here's an 8 for 4.5 years and then he started Breaking all the Eight Point Rules. when he was taken at 8.5 yrs old he Scored 209 on a Freinds Ranch in McMullen County. Maybe Konan can chime in here and give the year by year growth of this (8) that went off the charts. He Watched this deer year to year.


This deer was an interesting case. I am trying to find pictures of him at 2.5 and 3.5. The only reason I know its the same deer is he had some bad scaring along his hind quarters. When he was 2.5 and 3.5 he was an eight big but still an eight. at 5.5 he started throwing trash with double drops. 6.5 he stayed at an eight frame but no drops. at 7.5 no drops, at 8.5 you can see.

Brett has a good point and I believed in it before: a deer cant get big on the wall, let him live and if he goes down one year dont get sad good chance he will make a big jump the next year.


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## Shortmag71 (Apr 19, 2011)

I would love to kill a huge 8 in about the 160 class.


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## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

CHARLIE said:


> Well like mentioned above its all different for different ranches and what you can do. No question that "things" can happen with age but I dont want to take the chance that some 8 someday will turn into some type of monster. Certainly it can happen but I dont think the odds are too good. But I am not condeming anything others do.
> Ya know I think that a 10 can do the same thing and as *Troughunter* states nothing prettier that a big 8 except maybe a big ten or 12.
> 
> We have a big wide 8 again this year and he's been hiding out past few hunts. He better now show cuz he's going to turn into sausage.. Management deer


Dang!!! That's brutal Charlie! :biggrin:


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## Too Tall (May 21, 2004)

Haute Pursuit said:


> Dang!!! That's brutal Charlie! :biggrin:


No doubt. :biggrin:


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## Hesser (Jan 23, 2012)

I was always told yes, but have seen otherwise. The "rule about 8's" is more for mature deer. When a buck gets to 4 years old, other than protien fed deer, they _should_ _not _get any more points. Add a good rain year, protien or even an injury and strange things happen. Most of the time on the big money places, if its 4 years old and an 8 thats all it will ever be. I've seen year after year photos of the same buck that prove different, but we did add protien feeding the whole off season.


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## coogerpop (Sep 3, 2009)

Always and forever amen ????? Probally...but it depends on a lot of things as previously stated...genetics...nutrition..age..weather conditions..But usually...8 is 8 is 8..


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## CaptDocHoliday (Feb 3, 2011)

Nothing wrong with the right kind of 8..... Shoot them too young and you'll never know.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Haute Pursuit and Too Tall

That dern 8 made it again this year. He just went and "hid out" on us.. Maybe next year he will be some freak. Who knows he's old enough..
Here he was year before last on the right eating out of the feeder


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## cpthook (Jan 16, 2008)

An 8 is not always an 8 they can be an 8 one year and a 12 the next. But an older 8 is typiclly considered a cull. Wampucat has a 1 in a million 8 pointer.


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## TPD (Jun 11, 2004)

*age old argument*

A lot of different opinions on this subject. Mine is that the frame is whats important, not the points. A decent frame 8 at 4 or 5 years old gets to keep growing. A small frame 10 the same age dies. A small frame with 12 or more points still gets a pass, but, I don't think letting small frame genetics continue in the herd is generally good management. Now, if a small frame 12 or better is a brute during rut and is kicking a lot of butt......he's dead.


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## Richard P (Jun 20, 2010)

I think age is the key regardless. If you have a situation where you can let them walk then focus more on age than anything else. Im referring to low fence only here. High fence is a different story. Im still looking for a 150+ 8 pt. Seen a few that are close but have let others shoot them. Not sure why people hate on 8s. I think it is the same mentality as hating on spikes. Just another excuse to justify shooting a deer because they cant hold out for a big boy. And before I get ripped on that, I really dont care what anyone shoots. We all hunt for different reasons and that is all that matters.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

I certainly dont hate 8's its just that you hear folks say "I just love a big ole 8" well I just love a big ole 10 or 12 better. They get 3 or 4 and still an 8 why wait and hope something good will happen. It could but chances are not good. Thats just my opinion and everyone has one.. Keep getting rid of them and you see fewer and fewer 8's and more and more 10's. Sorta like this 8's make 8's and 10's make 10's. 
And we dont shoot spikes unless he has some age on him..


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## Richard P (Jun 20, 2010)

Curious, is there a study out there that 8 points sire 8 points and 10 points sire 10 points etc? I just see in the human population that there is such a difference in most fathers and sons. Just met some new guys at my place this weekend. The dad was maybe 5'7" and both sons are well over 6'.


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## Richard P (Jun 20, 2010)

CHARLIE said:


> I certainly dont hate 8's its just that you hear folks say "I just love a big ole 8" well I just love a big ole 10 or 12 better. They get 3 or 4 and still an 8 why wait and hope something good will happen. It could but chances are not good. Thats just my opinion and everyone has one.. Keep getting rid of them and you see fewer and fewer 8's and more and more 10's. Sorta like this 8's make 8's and 10's make 10's.
> And we dont shoot spikes unless he has some age on him..


Charlie, if I remember right you are in a high fence situation. In that regard, I whole heartedly agree with what you are saying. I would be hammering anything that did not express the type of genetics I was looking for in a buck. In a low fence environment that is a lost cause.


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## Kyle 1974 (May 10, 2006)

There are rarely "always" clauses I trophy hunting. You plan for whatever is the best odds. Some 3 year old 8's may turn into something better, but a 3 year old 10 with kickers has a better chance.


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## JohnHumbert (May 21, 2004)

Richard P said:


> Curious, is there a study out there that 8 points sire 8 points and 10 points sire 10 points etc? I just see in the human population that there is such a difference in most fathers and sons. Just met some new guys at my place this weekend. The dad was maybe 5'7" and both sons are well over 6'.


How tall is their delivery guy?


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Now John that is plain funny rite there.. 

Richard P
Probably some studies out there somewhere but It holds true with whatever type of animal you are attempting to raise from cattle to goats. Always get rid of the "lesser" animal and retain the best. The herd will get better.. Regarding hi fenced and low fenced if everyone isnt on the same page you are 100% correct. That includes hi fenced places too. But if neighbors dont play by the rules its a waste of time. Now big ole low fenced places it will work... And yes sir we hunt a hi fenced place.. and all try to play by the same rules.. Let me say this, I certainly do not hold anything against anyone who does it another way.. Thats their way and I respect that.. Thats why there are Fords and Chevys. Good huntin guys (and gals)

I have a buddy who has a place (big low fence) and they dont allow anyone to shoot 8's only outside the ears 10's. The place is over run with big ole 8's and very few 10's but you caint change him for the world. But thats Ok its his business.


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## Richard P (Jun 20, 2010)

JohnHumbert said:


> How tall is their delivery guy?


LMAO!:rotfl:


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## Screeminreel (Jun 2, 2004)

I have no issues what so ever with waiting to see what something has the potential to grow into, or dropping one if you think it's going to be a dud, it's getting the folks on the other side of the fence to agree to the same thing, and hold true to it.

In the areas I hunt, it ain't going to happen no matter how hard we try to convince them to hold off. I am pretty picky about what and when I drop the hammer on, and for the most part I took the following deer for a particular reason and nothing more. The first one was barely outside his ears the first time I saw him, but had the white throat all the way to his chest, as well as the nice scarring on his head which appeared to be a white star from the distance we saw him. I dropped him 15 minutes after shooting light that year and had no issues with his point count. He was a mature 170 plus pound E. Texas deer and MUCH better than the previous year,









This one ran up with 7 or 8 does within 20 yds of me while I was simply standing by a tree actually hoping for some hogs to come by. I had both bow and rifle with me as it was just before Christmas and I was looking to get some tamale meat, starting off with the bow and then getting on them with the rifle. It was a great morning hunt, I saw several very nice young bucks within bow range but allowed them to pass even one nice 10 point. When this one came up though I figured he was a great buck to get with my bow and I tripped the release on him at 19 yards. Little did I know at the time, but I completely missed him with the bow, but with the thick river bottom I was hunting in I took no chance at second guessing the shot, and put 150gr Core Lokt on him when he stepped out from behind some brush at about 60yds.










This one also came in at just over 175 pounds, so again not bad for another E.Texas free ranging whitetail.

Then not to be left out my daughter has also acquired somewhat of a taste for knocking out a couple of VERY nice ones for our little 100 acre place, with this one first being a typical 8 with a kicker, 









and then this past season with this one which I know for a fact was a 10 last year, 









I had him standing by the ladder of my bow stand not 3 minutes after my wife dropped me off and was driving across the pasture, he stood and watched her, while I sat looking in disbelief. He didn't hang around long enough for me to do anything but get a good dose of buck fever and forget to look through my peep. Needless to say I am much better suited to a rifle than a bow.

He would have been a 10 this year too, possibly a 12, as he had broken off some of the right side of his antlers. He had also been lucky enough to make it past at least one other archery encounter, but was left with the gash across his back which was still healing when the daughter got him.

So to me I really like the unusual stuff. Something that is a once in a lifetime encounter. This said I don;t mind taking a fully mature deer for our area when I feel the need to put some venison in the freezer. I can usually hold off for a few years however biding my time with the hogs. The trophy part is in the hunt, or the adventure, getting to the point of pulling the trigger. I do not talk down on anyone's deer no matter the size of the horns, as I myself have shot some pretty small ones over the past 40 something years of hunting. To be honest, I have had a few does which made for some very exciting hunts themselves.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Screeminreel

Great post and enjoyed the read. Some folks dont realize a 10 can become an 8 at times especially in a dry bad year. I know some folks who raise deer who even have had that happen pen fed. So strange things do happen. I was hoping someone would revive this post it was sure getting boreing around here. How's ole grey beard ?


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## Screeminreel (Jun 2, 2004)

Hey Charlie,

"Grey Beard" said hey, and is looking to go catch some red fish, any thoughts?

Well the buck the daughter got was a dandy for sure. Even with the drought he managed to put on quite some mass from the previous year. Here is a pic of him from the side, within 20yds of the bow stand mentioned, the week before Thanksgiving 









We might not have gotten much rain but we at least had water. The vegetation however was suffering pretty bad. I do what I can afford to do putting out the 20% protein, but it is only in limited amounts as I simply cannot afford to let them down 300# a week like they can easily do.

Those river bottom deer running over on Grey Beards places did good through the drought as well. I took out this mature old 6 point from his place at Marquez, and he was plenty healthy, even with it being pretty dry there as well. 

















Overall, what has been mentioned about genes, has a lot to do with what happens with the deer, but you can have the best genes and still have smaller racked deer. You can feed the best feeds or foliage, and still have small racks. Stress can and does influence things as well. Age will allow them to grow, but still might not garner all they can or could be.

In talking with some folks over the years, the best you can hope for is about 65% of the overall true potential. This said yes there are plenty of large acreage places that can and do control the feed, genetics, and stress on their animals and they will produce overall much better deer than a place like what most of us are able to hunt. This said, as shown however, even from a small place like we have big things can happen if it all comes together.

I set aside a 15 acre pasture specifically for the deer to have to come and feed, bed down, have their fawns and such. I let it thicken up, and we stay out of it for the most part except to fill feeders or plant food plots when we can. Heck we have had several does throw their fawns within a hundred yards of the house and feed right in the back yard. While this isn't in any way some sort of grand operation, we keep several deer on the property now where in the past they simply passed on through.

Over at "Grey Beard's", they have plenty of room to do as they please and for the most part are unmolested and have little stress other than what nature throws their way. They have an abundance of foliage, and some of the best mineralized well water around if they choose to drink it. The deer I got was nice, but he isn't near what we have seen and let walk. He only has one condition for me hunting with him, and that is, if it hits the ground, it goes on the wall. Well I can't afford the cash or wall space, so I am VERY picky.


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## grayson (Oct 21, 2011)

If left to nature alone,the 8 point gene is dominant so it will take over eventually if left unchecked. On a managed ranch, for every 8 point that reaches 160 class there are many, many others that will never amount to anything but contiue to breed and pass their genes on. In my opinion, if a ranch has a good gene pool of multipoint deer (10's and up) there is no reason to let a four year old 8 point walk. The exception would be a four year old 8 that showed huge promise such as kickers, mass, etc. Otherwise an four year old eight should be culled.


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## Sharkhunter (May 22, 2004)

Nice deer Mike... Been a long time, Glad your doing well.


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## Encinal (Jan 18, 2008)

It's all about frame... big framed deer need to stay alive to see what "pops". Small framed deer need to go away...

Short beams vs Long beams are really the key...

It's hard to build a mansion on a quarter acre lot.


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## Konan (Jul 13, 2009)

Eights are bad arse, we took a 173 nine point off our place couple years back and the ninth point was a 1 inch berr on the base of the horn! I am trying to find some pictures.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Wow a 173 find that picture I gotta see that one.


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## Encinal (Jan 18, 2008)

Here are a couple big 8's... I think all over 170


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Those are some bad arse 8's


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## broadonrod (Feb 26, 2010)

Encinal said:


> It's all about frame... big framed deer need to stay alive to see what "pops". Small framed deer need to go away...
> 
> Short beams vs Long beams are really the key...
> 
> It's hard to build a mansion on a quarter acre lot.


 Very well put my brother and nice bucks !!! Brett


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## troutslayer (Feb 7, 2006)

*On December 1, 2011*, on the opening day of the second shotgun season in Illinois , David Robinson tagged what will likely be the largest 8-point whitetail in the Boone & Crockett record books. Sanders, a 38-year-old farmer and veteran deer hunter, was hunting on his home farm when he set his sights on this world-class buck of a lifetime. 
Gross 192-3/8


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Now thats a real 8 there..


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## Bukkskin (Oct 21, 2009)

Encinal said:


> It's all about frame... big framed deer need to stay alive to see what "pops". Small framed deer need to go away...
> 
> Short beams vs Long beams are really the key...
> 
> It's hard to build a mansion on a quarter acre lot.


Very well put, Indeed, kinda the way I look at it too.


Encinal said:


> Here are a couple big 8's... I think all over 170





troutslayer said:


> *On December 1, 2011*, on the opening day of the second shotgun season in Illinois , David Robinson tagged what will likely be the largest 8-point whitetail in the Boone & Crockett record books. Sanders, a 38-year-old farmer and veteran deer hunter, was hunting on his home farm when he set his sights on this world-class buck of a lifetime.
> Gross 192-3/8


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## Kyle 1974 (May 10, 2006)

well... I was going to post a video of a little ol dinker 150 class 8 I was after with my bow, but after these monsters, it's a tough act to follow.


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