# Why you might not want to use Round Up ?



## Muddskipper (Dec 29, 2004)

I wanted to post up a few links that I have been hearing people discuss recently

I finally took the time to copy and post so you could read for yourself...and tried to give more than one take

Your free to use what ever you want, just understand some of us choose not too and some might want more information on what they are using

These articles go against each other
http://www.environmentalhealthnews....n-testing-of-active-ingredient-alone-reveals/

The fall out of the article

http://news.sciencemag.org/environment/2014/02/pesticide-study-sparks-backlash

Then there is this
http://www.theecologist.org/News/ne...weedkiller_in_your_bread_and_cereal_bars.html

http://www.adn.com/2013/12/25/3245709/jeff-lowenfels-this-year-resolve.html


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## Friendswoodmatt (Feb 22, 2005)

If you look closely at the chemistry of the glyphosate molecule or really the salt of the glyphosate molecule you will see that it is very reactive and thus is rendered almost completely inert by contact with soil. Or at least that's what I was taught in school.
BS AGRONOMY Texas A&M


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## Muddskipper (Dec 29, 2004)

I have a lot of respect with what TAMU does and their posted work

And I would be surprised if they don't try their own study to see if they can dispell with what the EU countries are getting.

I pod casted a VET and he even said that as long as nothing touches RU and tracks it indoors like human shoes or dogs.... But they are picking up traces inside homes that have not broken down....

Lots of professionals giving their take and I try to read up on what the real pros are putting out there

It kind of goes back to the ol saying, numbers don't lie, but liars do...

I believe the truth is somewhere in between... And choose to er on the side of caution


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## w_r_ranch (Jan 14, 2005)

More irrational fear mongering... the absence verifiable scientific proof (data/methodology) is always telling...

A number of us are still awaiting the pics of your expansive garden(s), lawn & compost pile, Bryan... It kind of goes back to the ol saying, pictures don't lie. Please post them up.


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## goatchze (Aug 1, 2006)

Skip, you do what you want, but I still haven't seen you make a convincing case that we should avoid glyphosates at all costs. No one has, which is why its labeled use is still considered main stream and acceptable.

First article:
"_*These data cannot be used to set safety standards* because the study relied upon a simple, short-term and relatively insensitive measurement of toxicity -- cell viability, or what percentage of cells survived. Many adverse effects do not cause cell death, so tests of pesticides need to use more sensitive endpoints, such as endocrine disruption._"

Second Article:
As you point out, raises many red flags to the validity of the first "study", including pointing out the the study's main author has been effectively discredited, and that any work he performs should receive extra scrutiny. (i.e. he has an agenda).

Third article:
_"The weedkiller residues [found in the packaged foods] were present in small quantities - between 0.1 and 0.8 mg/kg. This is *well below the permitted EU maximum* residue levels (MRLs) for cereal crops, which currently span 10 - 20 mg/kg."_ (emphasis added)

From the source cited in the third article:

_"In all cases the presence of the residues found would be unlikely to have had any effect on the health of the people who ate the food."_

Fourth Article:
This is an OpEd with nothing to add to the conversation other than someone else's opinion.

---

What I see is a lot of conclusions looking for validation. Unfortunately, (and this is not a jab at you), this is the _modus operand_i for most environmentalists, whether it is pesticides, oil and gas production, or anything else. It's why I take what most of them say with a grain of salt.

I'm a realist, and rational thought says you've got to have the cart behind the horse. No one doubts that pesticides are dangerous; it's why they're regulated and must only be used per their respective labels. But I'm not going to make my life more difficult based on irrational fear that they "might" be harmful without better evidence than what has been provided to date.


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

Muddskipper said:


> ...It kind of goes back to the ol saying, numbers don't lie, but liars do...
> 
> ... And choose to er on the side of caution


 So, exactly what are we talking about here in terms of numbers for your garden experience base?

A) one or two containers
B) one small raised bed
C) one acre garden
D) 20 acre field


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## Muddskipper (Dec 29, 2004)

I'm not here to get into a debate of the size mine vs yours 

In the organic circles roundup is frowned upon... I found the recent articles and posted them

You know what side I'm on... So I tried to post all the links in regards to the recent studies, including the ones that dispelled the first article

Use what you want... I am merely sharing the info with relative links to why I am posting them

And from the PMs and greens I keep getting some appericate them... You and others clearly don't ... It's cool


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## w_r_ranch (Jan 14, 2005)

Still waiting on the pictures... post them up & share your successes with the rest of us. Pictures are worth a 1000 words, as they say.


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## Umpy I (Jul 23, 2013)

[ 
In the organic circles roundup is frowned upon...

Where does anyone get off calling anything non-organic, when it all comes from the EARTH, not outter space. Store bought items are simply in more concentrated amounts than the "organic style" Just because it comes from a refinery, Lab, or other facility doesn't make it bad.


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## waterspout (May 21, 2004)

VINEGAR IS THE SIMPLE SOLUTION,,,, READ http://www.agardenforthehouse.com/2011/06/got-weeds-use-vinegar-not-roundup/


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## w_r_ranch (Jan 14, 2005)

This is another myth purported by the 'anti-Monsanto cult', LOL!!!. 

Field trials have proven that undiluted vinegar will burn up the top portions but rarely kills the roots, so they come right back.


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## w_r_ranch (Jan 14, 2005)

Two horticultural professionals took some of the most popular garden myths into the university laboratory to prove or disprove the accuracy of these myths. Dr. Linda Chalker-Scott from Washington State University and Dr. Jeff Gilliam from the University of Minnesota tested these myths under controlled conditions to determine if they really work.



> *The Myth: *Vinegar is an effective weed killer
> *
> The Facts: *Vinegar is acetic acid. There has not been much research done on the effectiveness of vinegar as an herbicide.
> 
> ...


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## w_r_ranch (Jan 14, 2005)

Before anyone else says these things aren't tested enough...

*http://www.epa.gov/pesticides/science/guidelines.htm
*


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## Muddskipper (Dec 29, 2004)

I saw this write up to... It's worth a read especially if your more of a rural farmer...

http://www.dirtdoctor.com/organic/garden/view_org_research/id/172/

It's interesting to see this discussion on Monsanto and the money behind their marketing

At the very minimum it mentions alternating between other herbicides and RU


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## Rubberback (Sep 9, 2008)

I shy away from stuff like this cause I raise chickens. Chickens have a different system well all birds do. I don't know if it will hurt them so I just don't mess with it.


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## w_r_ranch (Jan 14, 2005)

LOL!!! Just another anti-Monsanto opinion piece by a guy that make his living off the gullibles. This piece needs some scientific-based moments, not loosy lefty lines. Face the fact the guy is as fringe as they come. Besides EVERYBODY knows that weeds, like all living things, adapt to survive... it called 'natural evolution'.

BTW, we all still waiting on you to post up your pics. Pictures are worth a 1000 words, as they say & would lend some legitimacy to your 'cause'.


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## B-1 83 (Sep 22, 2009)

Professional agronomist, Certified Crop Advisor, Nutrient Management Soecialist, and Organic Specialist here .....

Vinegar *and orange oil* mixes are deadly on young annual weeds such as henbit, rescue grass, etc..... but don't work on perennials like Johnsongrass and bermudagrass. It just top kills and doesn't translocate to kill roots.

As far as Roundup goes ..... I have yet to see a study on glyphosate evils that has been peer reviewed and backed by university research. Like all chemicals, just use it according to label instructions, don't be stupid, and all will be well.


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