# Permit Rat...the Fly



## Permit Rat (May 13, 2014)

OK, I finally got around to making my photos smaller, so they would fit into a post. This is the _Permit Rat_, tied on a #1 or #2 Mustad 34007 hook. It has medium lead eyes and the body is wrapped with 4 turns of .030 lead wire, under tan _or_ brown/yellow variegated chenille. The tail and wing are both yellow calf's tail (sinks better) and the main wing is spun natural deer hair. The head is a result of simply needing something to do with all those butt ends of deer hair. You can also see that for my own personal use, I don't give a rat's *** how "showroom perfect" the fly looks. The fish don't care.

I think there are several secrets to this fly's success. First, if you ever opened a flats permit's stomach, you would find very few large shrimp or finny crabs, such as we (ironically) use for permit baits. Their stomachs have a large number of small spider crabs and pistol shrimp, which look more like a miniscule Maine lobster, with one outsized claw.

Second is the color yellow. Permit seem to key in on yellow....maybe a reproductive thing. In deep water, on the wrecks or off the bar, a yellow jig is what we use for the permit there. It is essentially a larger version of a pompano jig and is retrieved the same way, with lots of tip action, so that the jig hops through the water. On shallow wrecks (less than 20 ft. deep) permit will eat a small all yellow popper. YES, they will take a fly off the surface! So already knowing this, I wanted to incorporate some yellow into my fly.

Third is the bushy bucktail wing/collar. Unfortunately, when this gets wet, it folds down closer to the body and the fly more resembles a muddler minnow. But it appears that when it hits the water that the hair flairs out again. This nondescript round silhouette is intended to give the impression of a spider crab. Again...if the fly hits the bottom with no take, I use the hand-twist retrieve to move the fly. Spider crabs move very slowly and are an easy target for permit.

Finally, for cruising permit, the fly can be retrieved in the normal manner to more imitate a shrimp. It may not sink as fast as a clipped nylon jig on spinning tackle, but it sinks a helluva lot faster than any other fly on the market. Thus, I can imitate at least a little, the jig action, but using a fly.

The BAD NEWS....is all the lead, that is necessary to sink all that hollow deer hair. When wet, the fly is a challenge to cast. When wading, I use a 10 ft. 8 weight, as the extra length allows me a wider loop that slows everything down and the fly doesn't overrun the line and leader as badly, resulting in it really smacking the water hard. I gave two _Rats_ to Lefty, before a trip he made to the Bahamas. The Bahamas are not especially known for permit and he did not take one on fly. However, he did say that he caught a big bonefish with it. To wit...if I know I am going to be in an area where bonefish also frequent, I'll opt for the smaller #2 fly, just in case.

One more irony, is that my fly tyer at the time, lived in the Baltimore, Md. area. He told me that the smallmouth bass fishermen loved it in the Delaware River. I think they still use it there for smallies.

There you have it.


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## Fishsurfer (Dec 14, 2014)

Have you tried to make it with a synthetic fiber like say an EP and a little flashabou. I really like that size hook, it seems like the fly is just the right length.


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## Permit Rat (May 13, 2014)

*EP, flashabou*



Fishsurfer said:


> Have you tried to make it with a synthetic fiber like say an EP and a little flashabou. I really like that size hook, it seems like the fly is just the right length.


To date, I have not found a synthetic material that will bush out like a hollow natural fiber....and unfortunately, I believe that the nondescript bushiness is one of the keys to the fly's success so far. I believe the fish at least "hope" it's a spider crab.

As for flashabou, flash doesn't exist on any of the permit's natural food prey in the natural state (crabs, shrimp, etc.) and permit on the flats at least, want a natural offering and it must look alive. On the flats, permit will not eat a dead crab or shrimp, unless they are teased in such a way that the offering looks alive. I have been successful exactly once with each of the above, in provoking a take. But that's all.

I think it's amazing how finicky a flats permit is, and yet out on the deeper wrecks or off the Key West bar, they respond to chum and eat dead baits all the time.

BTW.....I'm wondering if any of you have ever seen a permit in So. Texas. Small ones might run in the surf and be mixed in with the pompano.....or, hang around some of the shallower platforms in the Gulf. Anyone ever seen this?


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## BrandonFox (Jan 8, 2013)

Every year people catch small ones in the surf and call them off as pompano... As well as the universities pulling juveniles up in their nets from time to time. Same goes for bonefish.


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## Permit Rat (May 13, 2014)

*Permit...and bonefish too?*



BrandonFox said:


> Every year people catch small ones in the surf and call them off as pompano... As well as the universities pulling juveniles up in their nets from time to time. Same goes for bonefish.


Ahhh...That's what I thought. If there's little ones (permit), there have to be big ones somewhere.

Interesting about the bonefish. They are more ubiquitous than people think. When I first drove from PI to Brownsville, I noticed that big body of water on the right, I think y'all call "Bahia Grande." I remember thinking how much it looked like some Mexican bonefish flats I fish, and wondered if there might be juvenile bonefish in there, maybe just 1-2 lbs. I'm a little surprised they don't get bigger and roam some of those back waters on the west side of LLM.

At any rate, I'd like to learn more about Bahia Grande. Looks like the investment in a paddleboard might be in the future


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## Unbound (Jul 12, 2004)

I'm pretty sure I once caught a small permit off the SPI jetties. I couldn't quite place it as either a pompano or a crevalle, so I tossed it back. I need to dig around and see if I can find the picture.

Bahia Grande had been closed off for decades after the built Hwy 48. It was a dustbowl in the dry years and a mosquito nursery in the wet years. It was a no-brained to finally open up a channel, which they did about 7 years ago. Ultra-super-saline and lots of fish. It's part of a National Wildlife Refuge, so the pilings about 50 feet in are posted as no trespassing. I don't know if they enforce it, but I see people always wade out in the muck that far and cast beyond.


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

Great fly. My question: Do you or your fly tyer have any for sale? 

I would love to have a few. 

I really like the weight to the fly...many times I've been in 4-5 ft of water up close and personal with Permit down in Chetumal bay and needed a fly that can quickly dive like a crab. I really like the looks of yours. 

I've caught snook on SPI but never seen Permit or bonefish. Actually, I've fished all the way down to Campeche and never seen bones or Permit until you get on up north along the Yucatan Penn. 

Its great to have you on this forum...and I hope you will continue to add. I'm heading after GT's next year and really looking for inputs...its one of those just have to catch fish.


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## Permit Rat (May 13, 2014)

Meadowlark said:


> Great fly. My question: Do you or your fly tyer have any for sale?
> 
> I would love to have a few.
> 
> ...


 Meadowlark......You fish in Chetumal Bay? That is where I go also. Perhaps you can see where that "Bahia Grande," looks like some of the shallow basins that are opposite of Xcalak on the bay side. You don't by chance, have a Hell's Bay skiff that you use? I followed one out to the ferry pier one day, except that when I saw him I decided to take the road south of there. I'm dying to fish around that island, just 1 mile offshore of the pier. I KNOW there are permit there and maybe some slightly larger bonefish too. The ones I get wading, average a bit larger than the ones the guides usually put their clients onto, further south.

As for the flies, I'd give you a few, but my fly tying gear is all in storage in Florida. In a month or so, I'll have it moved to So. Texas. In my fly box I have (I think) 2, so if I get to PI before your next trip, we can either get together over a cold one, or I will mail them to you. Only thing is that they are the size 1 and I think a 2 might be better for Mexico. One of the larger bonefish (say a 4 lber.) could eat that size in a pinch. That said, a "real" permit wouldn't have a problem eating the #1. BTW, another good bonefish pattern is a #4-6 bunny gotcha. Dinnerplates can eat them too. Just be sure the fur doesn't extend much beyond the bend in the hook. (At least I) get a lot of short takes down there from the small ones.


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

Yep, got my grand slam there and first permit ever on the fly after trying for more years than I care to admit, LOL. Those Permit are one tough difficult fish. 

There are some huge ones in a little deeper wadable water there. Never forget one eyeballing me with one big eye on the crab fly and one on me, LOL. Biggest Permit I've ever seen in person or photos....of course it refused...but I have to think with some more weight and faster dropping crab fly that Permit would not have time to look around. 

No, don't have a Hell's Bay. I usually fish with an outfitter there cause its kind of hard to get to. 

LOL the "gotcha" is absolutely my favorite fly for that area in tans and browns. 

Let me know please when you have a "sample" available...and best wishes on your Texas adventures.


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## Unbound (Jul 12, 2004)

*Permit rod question*

I've been entertaining the idea of spending a winter in the Keys in a couple more years. From most of what I'd read, I've been assuming I'd need to get a 10 wt for fishing permit, but now I see you mention using an 8 wt. You explained your preference fort the 10'er, but I'm hoping you would offer more thoughts on the 8 wt for permit.


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## Permit Rat (May 13, 2014)

Unbound....Most of my permit fishing was done "after hours" in the late Spring and Summer. After saying good bye to a non fly fishing client, I might top off my tank and head out to the back country and wade for permit and bonefish. In late July and August, I had few clients anyway, as everyone was afraid for hurricanes, kids had Summer vacations, etc. (Key West was not a place where one would bring a family with young kids, back in those days)

Anyway, it was a chore to cast my fly with an 8 weight. But at the bottom of the tide, the fish were small (6-8 lbs) They got bigger as the water rose (10-12) At that, my largest caught back there was only 23 lbs.

Fishing from a boat, I would definitely use a 9 or 10 wt. Even a crab fly is a heavy fly. It is just more wind resistant when wet, and that helps keep it from over running the line and leader as my fly is want to do. A crab fly is also more vulnerable to the ever present wind.....but you want that wind, to mask you and the boat. 

You never said what part of the Keys you might go to. Whereas Key West has the most permit, the fish in the Middle and Upper Keys average a little bigger than Key West's fish. You'll also find a lot more singles, further up the Keys. In Key West, you might see schools of 6-10 fish, but they'll be 12-15 lbs. But we also have favorite flats and times of the year (Winter and early Spring) for targeting the outsized permit of 35-40 lbs.+. Up the Keys, it seems to me that you pretty much have to take what you get, yet those fish frequently top 20 lbs. I don't think you'd want to be fighting fish that size on an 8 wt.


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## Unbound (Jul 12, 2004)

Thanks for the tips Permit Rat.

As far as what part of the Keys, I'm not really sure. I'm not very familiar with them. I spent a long weekend there once in the early 80s, but there was more partying than fishing and diving. Maybe once you settle in Port Isabel, I can buy you a beer or two and get some more input.


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