# Running Skinny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



## Bigdsduty

Now as far as the enviroment goes some may not like this, but it doesn't look like much was damaged except for some dredging.

I like to call this running skinny, or Ditch Witching.


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## Navi

Im not an environmentalist, just jealous


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## bayourat

prodrives are fun.


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## Bigdsduty

bayourat said:


> prodrives are fun.


No prodrive here.


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## Justin_Time

Bigdsduty said:


> No prodrive here.


Details please. Majek RFL?


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## Redfishr

Show us a picture of that boat.......


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## Bigdsduty

BTW, I did not do this. I don't have the guts to try, nor do I think that my particular setup could make it part of the way.


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## Bigdsduty

No gottie a picture, but it was a 2001 21' Tran Cat w/ a 150 TRP trenching her way through.


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## railbird

Looks like an RFL. Also looks like there was some pushing involved after that photo. lol BTW, I don't see any sea grass there, just soft silty mud. The water in the foreground is likely being pushed up from the weight of the hull sitting in there. Don't ask me how I know this.

chuck


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## Texas Jeweler

When the water jackets in youre motor stop working...this could be the source.


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## Gottagofishin

I seems like that would be rough on the cooling system.


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## Slimshady

They must have been hauling a** before they hit the mud. Pretty big cojones!


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## Bigdsduty

Gottagofishin said:


> I seems like that would be rough on the cooling system.


And the skeg, and the prop, and the gelcoat and any of the ulcers of the people on board.


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## paragod

A Prodrive on a Gatortraxx no problem but if it was a eggbeater on a glass boat I sure would'nt tell anyone I did something like that.


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## Bigdsduty

paragod said:


> A Prodrive on a Gatortraxx no problem but if it was a eggbeater on a glass boat I sure would'nt tell anyone I did something like that.


Remarkable nonetheless.


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## fishin shallow

Wow, the driver had to have had plenty of liquid courage to try that


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## ol' salt

I've caught some big trout in that kind of water with Corkys.


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## Mazz

the cable guy finally got the cable working but i had to call his manager to complain about my sod, they are coming out next week to fill in a few spots...


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## big v

Was that picture taken after the tide had gone out?


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## myprozac

big v said:


> Was that picture taken after the tide had gone out?


 I was thinking the exact same thing because that grass doesn't have any water in it.....


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## Nocturnal

Dirt bike?


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## Clint Sholmire

*Why*

I wonder what would be the proper lure selections for that spot oh yeah there aren't any!


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## patwilson

Now that's funny right there!!!!!!



ol' salt said:


> I've caught some big trout in that kind of water with Corkys.


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## Pocketfisherman

Bigdsduty said:


> No gottie a picture, but it was a 2001 21' Tran Cat w/ a 150 TRP trenching her way through.


That has to be sooo good for the props and gears. How much for a set of TRP prop$. Betcha dollars for donuts he does burnouts with his truck too.


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## scwine

Nocturnal said:


> Dirt bike?


:rotfl::rotfl:


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## McBeast

good luck with the water pump


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## snapperlicious

*yep*



Nocturnal said:


> Dirt bike?


I agree dirt bike with a sand paddle.


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## Bird

Backflush the engine when your back at the house and clear the water jackets. Change water pumps every year with annual service. Prop to Baumann for trueing while boat is in shop for annual. I've had a few days like that buy mine were mostly uh oh hold on we're gonna bump...


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## DHouser

Wheres that pic taken at?


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## Blue Fury

railbird said:


> Looks like an RFL. Also looks like there was some pushing involved after that photo. lol BTW, I don't see any sea grass there, just soft silty mud. The water in the foreground is likely being pushed up from the weight of the hull sitting in there. Don't ask me how I know this.
> 
> chuck


LMAO. only RFL owners know that experience right? haha


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## gregr1971

I don't see an outboard boat doing that. Mud motor yes. 
I could be wrong.


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## atcfisherman

myprozac said:


> I was thinking the exact same thing because that grass doesn't have any water in it.....


Yep!!! I was probably a surface drive boat but someone wants us to think their out board can run in mud. ROFL


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## Bigdsduty

big v said:


> Was that picture taken after the tide had gone out?


The picture was taken right after they ran through it, as seen by the mud clods that the prop threw out to the sides. You can faintly see hull marks in some areas, but most of those filled back in as the mud is fairly wet.

Pics were taken in the POC area.

I really don't think they are trying to say that they have the baddest boat and outboard in the world; I think it's more of a case of I can't believe we made it through that.


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## vtx18c

WOW..Ballzee


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## YoungGun1

ol' salt said:


> I've caught some big trout in that kind of water with Corkys.


I hope you didn't keep more than 5!


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## Barbarian

vtx18c said:


> WOW..Ballzee


or I don't feel like spending the night back here so we might as well try it.

or

hold my beer and watch this


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## hookemkev

i wonder if the name of the boat is "ditch witch"??!!?? might put them out of business..


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## douglasgilbert

*trenching*

Ran at high tide and photographed at low?


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## Bigdsduty

Barbarian said:


> or I don't feel like spending the night back here so we might as well try it.
> 
> or
> 
> hold my beer and watch this


Your first quote is just about right.

Ran at high tide and photographed at low?

If they ran at high tide you would not see those dirt clods that got thrown all over the place. They would have hit the water and smoothed out.

We will just chalk it up as boat, outboard performance, momentum and a big helping of luck.


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## mchrismapp

*This is Unbelievable.- Good Job*

This is awsome. Don't know that I would have tried this one.
:walkingsm
This picture brings up question I would like response to.

I have been debating over the years to have a boat rodeo with a preset course including exactly like what is posted here. Fishing tournaments are great but every one does and something different would be fun. Everyone thinks thier boat set up is best and a diverse coarse would be blast.

would like to see prize money around 10k with a 1, 2 and 3rd place.

Please send me ideas or what you think about this also
Please send me the name of this person, would like to offer them our services. my kind of customer.

Chris Mapp
Coastal Bend Marine in Port O'connor,


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## Tator Salad

Looks like Coe has been out playing in his GatorTrax again.


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## oneneo3

Tator Salad said:


> Looks like Coe has been out playing in his GatorTrax again.


HAHA, Yea thats what I was thinking too. If that was done with a regular outboard, I wish I could have seen it... and they better check their water jackets!!


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## bigfishtx

Where is the hull marks? Sorry whatever ran through there did it with a high tide and the pic was taken after the tide left.


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## RAT DADDY

yall can hate all yall want about this pic but I have done the same thing myself a few times with a babycat with 90 tohastu motor on it. I do nothing but fish in way back placed in the marsh. I have been running out then oh $hit the water was gone in parts of the cuts we just run across the mud till we hit the other side to late to stop just punch it. Have no issues with mud clogging up our motor or anything.


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## RAT DADDY

nope there was no water when it was done if you look close there are hull marks you really cant see them good due to the mud splatter covering them if there was water there the mud wouldnt be clumped up like that like I said I know from doing it myself


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## ATE_UP_FISHERMAN

I know it wasn't a FlatsCat. Because the motor is way too low.


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## Bigdsduty

bigfishtx said:


> Where is the hull marks? Sorry whatever ran through there did it with a high tide and the pic was taken after the tide left.


How do you explain the mud clods where there is no water. If there was water there when they ran through those clods would have dissolved.


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## Bigdsduty

In no way am I wanting to start a pi$$ing match, nor am I trying to run a sales pitch. I don't care what boat and outboard did it; it's impressive. I don't think my rig could do it, but I'll never know because I don't have the guts to try.

Forget the fact that I answered the question as to what boat did it.

A fiberglass boat with a 150hp outboard motor made it through this. Didn't say it was easy and not saying that they could do it again, but they lucked out this time.


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## Won Mo Kasst

Wow, to think someone rode a Corky through the mud... Those things really can do it all! Very impressive with whatever boat it was! Dudes defiantly had a lot of sack!


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## Tombo

I think they ran at low tide and this pic is high tide:rotfl:
Would I have tried that in my ole scooter? Not on purpose.


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## flatswader

Sorry. There is no way ANY boat with a prop could have run through that. I will believe it when you video it. Otherwise B***S***.


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## GREENLIGHT

That is insane!! But I believe it could be done on a lucky day with the right amount of momentum heading into this area.


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## Kwhitley

Ya I call b*** s*** also. Tide had to be up. I've been in alot of shallow water boats and ya, just can't see that it's possible.


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## Bigdsduty

flatswader said:


> Sorry. There is no way ANY boat with a prop could have run through that. I will believe it when you video it. Otherwise B***S***.


It's a shame that forums and the world have come to the point where one person cannot trust the word of another. A mans word is good for nothing, and everybody is better than everybody else. That seems to be how it goes on many of the forums that I visit.

You're right, it's total BS; a totally fabricated story.

Please close thread!!!


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## mkk

Bigdsduty said:


> It's a shame that forums and the world have come to the point where one person cannot trust the word of another. A mans word is good for nothing, and everybody is better than everybody else. That seems to be how it goes on many of the forums that I visit.
> 
> You're right, it's total BS; a totally fabricated story.
> 
> Please close thread!!!


Don't be so sensitive, you story has holes all through it. You have pics of the aftermath.........but no action photos. I would never run anything I owned through something like that.


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## Bigdsduty

mkk said:


> Don't be so sensitive, you story has holes all through it. You have pics of the aftermath.........but no action photos. I would never run anything I owned through something like that.


Give me some of the holes, please????


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## Bigdsduty

Bigdsduty said:


> Give me some of the holes, please????


Nevermind, it's not worth debating.


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## mkk

Bigdsduty said:


> Nevermind, it's not worth debating.


Hey brother.........Your getting way to worked up over this. The hole is that you have no pictures or can't show them for whatever reason. Thats why you are catching so much flack. I, like many others have seen tracks like that. They were made with a mud buddy, go devil......................

So this is why people are questioning your story


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## RAT DADDY

Its because they dont have the balls to run into places like that I have done it several times with no issues. So I know that it is true its not like we really intend on running through it. It just happens sometimes when you are way back in there wacking fish when the tide drops out on you. Because it is the best fishing on the out going tide in places like that. So till you have the balls to dare dont want to here your negitive comments because its just yall opinion since you have never been there. Maybe you need to go buy yourself a transcat and see for yourself.


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## mkk

RAT DADDY said:


> Its because they dont have the balls to run into places like that I have done it several times with no issues. So I know that it is true its not like we really intend on running thrhavingough it. It just happens sometimes when you are way back in there wacking fish when the tide drops out on you. Because it is the best fishing on the out going tide in places like that. So till you have the balls to dare dont want to here your negitive comments because its just yall opinion since you have never been there. Maybe you need to go buy yourself a transcat and see for yourself.


If I did have a Tran Cat, I would not abuse it like that. I would put "having balls" and "stupid" in the same catagory in this case


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## Miles2Fish

I CAN believe this happenend...but why the hell you would do it is another story....There is no way you did zero harm to your motor runnning through nearly dry mud for 35-40 yards...I am sorry but I would have let the boat float in what was left and called a bud for a pick up.....


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## railbird

Miles2Fish said:


> I CAN believe this happenend...but why the hell you would do it is another story....There is no way you did zero harm to your motor runnning through nearly dry mud for 35-40 yards...I am sorry but I would have let the boat float in what was left and called a bud for a pick up.....


There is no doubt in my mind what he did is possible. Here is an example of a simular area near corpus. This was posted by a buddy after a trip thru a nasty spot. The total distance is 80yds. The neatest part about this picture is it represents a 60 degree turn in a foot of water from a tight cut. The turn causes a slide, so management of speed is critical. I hit this at a speed of maybe 20 mph and crossed it. What you boys don't understand is that mud is about the consistency of a chocolate malt. To make it to safety you have to get to the water that is 2" deep on the other side, from there you never come off plane.

chuck


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## atcfisherman

mkk said:


> If I did have a Tran Cat, I would not abuse it like that. I would put "having balls" and "stupid" in the same catagory in this case


Absolutely!!! However, let me say that some peoples definition of skinny water is much different than others. For example, I have a 21 ft kenner with a tunnel and jack plate. For me, skinny is running in 10-12 inches. For others, that is deep depending on their boat. So, I guess there are some that can do that. I just don't think I would run my boat through that even if it would make it. For one, I wouldn't want to spend the night out in the marsh with the mosquitoes as I have done before. And two, if I didn't make it, the other boaters that saw me stuck would laugh all the way back to the dock.


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## atcfisherman

I do have a suggestion. If I recall, there is an area south called CEDAR BAYOU that is closed up. (I've never been there) Maybe the guy who did this could run through Cedar Bayou a few times and dredge it out. LOL JK!!!


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## aggiefishinDr

I would love to see an action shot!! I am not saying that didnt happen, but..... I fish on a buddies 21 transcat frequently and get stuck with water!! I gurantee 100% that his boat would not make it that distance and keep going! Pictures may be off the back of the boat stuck!


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## dos torta

I have come to the conclusion that the majority of people on this site have more experience behind a keyboard than the helm of a boat.


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## RAT DADDY

ok study the picture they were coming out of the cut on plan well when they turned the corner oh $hit there is no water what do you do shut down and get stuck at the beginning of it or just nut up and hit it and see what happens thats what i do and guess what I make it across everytime and my motor is running like a champ doesnt miss a lick or is it just because i have a Tohatsu. Any ways when you fish shallow things like this happen its not that we do it on purpose just to do it.


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## RAT DADDY

most of yall would prolly cry if you saw the bottom of my Babycat  but you know I put that boat through everything day in and day out and it is a bad little unit but that is just how I roll fish hard or go home dont hold anything back go for it


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## tpool

dos torta said:


> I have come to the conclusion that the majority of people on this site have more experience behind a keyboard than the helm of a boat.


Ur not 100% correct, but ur getting close!!! 

T-BONE


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## vtx18c

i'm still shock and awe that this can be done, like I say "ballzee." I would love to see this on video


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## atcfisherman

RAT DADDY said:


> ok study the picture they were coming out of the cut on plan well when they turned the corner oh $hit there is no water what do you do shut down and get stuck at the beginning of it or just nut up and hit it and see what happens thats what i do and guess what I make it across everytime and my motor is running like a champ doesnt miss a lick or is it just because i have a Tohatsu. Any ways when you fish shallow things like this happen its not that we do it on purpose just to do it.


Good example!!! Been there and done that, however I usually get stuck with my deeper vee. But, when you are in that situation, it is usually best to try and make it through b/c you are already on plane.

One more thing, that pic looks like it was taken from LIGHT HOUSE COVE in POC. I have actually been wading there before and heard a boat coming from the J-HOOK/FISH POND area and all of a sudden it was a EL Pescador flying through. However, the water was about 6 inches at that time. But, it looks like the area. Either way, better them than me!


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## bayourat

RAT DADDY said:


> most of yall would prolly cry if you saw the bottom of my Babycat  but you know I put that boat through everything day in and day out and it is a bad little unit but that is just how I roll fish hard or go home dont hold anything back go for it


So with all that abuse to your boat, how many tournaments have you won?


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## Tombo

The man said he did it. Good enough for me.


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## railbird

bayourat said:


> So with all that abuse to your boat, how many tournaments have you won?


What does tournaments have to do with fishing where you love to fish? Some of us like fishing way back where the crouds are not. The size and numbers are just a bonus.

chuck


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## CaptainJMB

well, if the reds couldn't walk back there before.....I guess they have a trench now!


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## abreyes28

That's not running Skinny, that's running Skeletal!!!!!


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## bigfishtx

Bigdsduty said:


> No gottie a picture, but it was a 2001 21' Tran Cat w/ a 150 TRP trenching her way through.


No way. The Trans Cat is not flaat across the bottom of the transom, that picture does not show any hull marks. The water must have been higher when they went through, and when the tide went out, the hulls marks filled in. (That is if this was made with a traditional outboard).

I can tell you, once water quits flowing to an engine at high RPM's it will het up almost immediately. To chug your way through that much mud would end up in an blown powerhead long before you got to the end.

I hate to call out a poster but there are a lot of us here that have run shallow water rigs for a long time, and, there is no way even a Redfish Line could do that with no water, just mud.

It makes a good picture and also a good story, but, it is pure fantasy.


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## rlw

Ya'll aint never seen Chuck Norris's boat I guess!!


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## RAT DADDY

Depends on how far back you want me to go cause I have a lot of wins on redfish and trout for tournaments in my area. I just started to the pro tournament this past fall. I have not placed under 13th so far in all of those tied with 2nd is best in a pro tournament missed first buy 3 tenths of a pound. My style of fishing for reds is in those way back places away from all the yahoo's out there. 


bayourat said:


> So with all that abuse to your boat, how many tournaments have you won?


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## RAT DADDY

yes a trans cat is very flat on the bottom


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## RAT DADDY

LOL not fantasy it really happens my motor has never shutdown doing so


bigfishtx said:


> No way. The Trans Cat is not flaat across the bottom of the transom, that picture does not show any hull marks. The water must have been higher when they went through, and when the tide went out, the hulls marks filled in. (That is if this was made with a traditional outboard).
> 
> I can tell you, once water quits flowing to an engine at high RPM's it will het up almost immediately. To chug your way through that much mud would end up in an blown powerhead long before you got to the end.
> 
> I hate to call out a poster but there are a lot of us here that have run shallow water rigs for a long time, and, there is no way even a Redfish Line could do that with no water, just mud.
> 
> It makes a good picture and also a good story, but, it is pure fantasy.


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## bayourat

RAT DADDY said:


> Depends on how far back you want me to go cause I have a lot of wins on redfish and trout for tournaments in my area. I just started to the pro tournament this past fall. I have not placed under 13th so far in all of those tied with 2nd is best in a pro tournament missed first buy 3 tenths of a pound. My style of fishing for reds is in those way back places away from all the yahoo's out there.


Then i'm sure we've ran into each other cause i've won alot of local tournaments on redfish also.


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## RAT DADDY

Im sure we have then if you around the freeport area


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## bayourat

RAT DADDY said:


> Im sure we have then if you around the freeport area


Pretty much name one in the area and i've fished it.


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## aggiefishinDr

I would guess that with the 21 tran cat, we would see deeper cuts from cat hull? I see a small cut I think on either side but with no water at all I would expect to see more? I fish on a 2007 21 tran cat and have had it stuck many times and get ruts even with water!! It is flat for the most part though. I wouldnt think that a boat in mud "would be on plane"


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## RAT DADDY

I also think the part alot of yall are looking over is the fact how soft the mud is. If its the mud you sink to your nutz in ya it is very possible thats what I have done it in. Now if the mud is pretty hard and think ya it wouldnt make it. Most marsh areas I fish it is like a super soft mud for several feet. That is why the prop can push through it just like water. Think yall are thinking of regular open water mud bottom. There is a huge difference.


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## railbird

RAT DADDY said:


> I also think the part alot of yall are looking over is the fact how soft the mud is. If its the mud you sink to your nutz in ya it is very possible thats what I have done it in. Now if the mud is pretty hard and think ya it wouldnt make it. Most marsh areas I fish it is like a super soft mud for several feet. That is why the prop can push through it just like water. Think yall are thinking of regular open water mud bottom. There is a huge difference.


Also what you may not think about is the fact that water is pushed up into the tunnel as the hull is compressing the mud. There is more water in there than dirt. The mud is supper slippery and you can litterally drive right over it without the prop being below the bottom of the hull. That way the water (and some mud) that is squirting up in the tunnel cools the engine and supplies thrust for the boat. In my boat, about 75-80 yds is about the limit before the alarm goes off. The good thing about spots like this is if you come up just short of making it, its so slippery you can push the boat by yourself. As far as I'm concerned, the most impressive part about the picture is he was able to make the turn while in a crazy slippery spot. Tells me the boy running this boat knows in situations like this the turtle wins the race. Nuttin up and blowing the tunnel out is the worst thing to do in this situation. Looks like some very solid panic free driving to me.

chuck


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## sea sick

My boat can't plane out in 3ft of water, much less run in 2. But I can tell you this. If you had the video of the boat running in and out of this mud, you'd have some boats sold because of it. I don't think you can get any shallower than that. Mud motor, no big deal. Outboard, now thats something to talk about. I know I'd love to see it .


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## rvd

atcfisherman said:


> Good example!!! Been there and done that, however I usually get stuck with my deeper vee. But, when you are in that situation, it is usually best to try and make it through b/c you are already on plane.
> 
> One more thing, that pic looks like it was taken from LIGHT HOUSE COVE in POC. I have actually been wading there before and heard a boat coming from the J-HOOK/FISH POND area and all of a sudden it was a EL Pescador flying through. However, the water was about 6 inches at that time. But, it looks like the area. Either way, better them than me!


I think you are right, or at least pretty close.


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## Miles2Fish

That's a very good point you make Chuck...Same thing happens with a Shoalwater.


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## Legba

I'm not itching to call BS here because I think it's interesting as hell. I run in pretty thin water pretty often. I've never seen anything like this. But if you guys are talking about the same boatable mud, and you found yourself here:



railbird said:


> ... The good thing about spots like this is if you come up just short of making it, its so slippery you can push the boat by yourself.
> 
> chuck


then wouldn't it be tough to push out if you were nuts deep?:



RAT DADDY said:


> If its the mud you sink to your nutz in ya it is very possible thats what I have done it in.


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## GREENLIGHT

railbird said:


> As far as I'm concerned, the most impressive part about the picture is he was able to make the turn while in a crazy slippery spot. Tells me the boy running this boat knows in situations like this the turtle wins the race. Nuttin up and blowing the tunnel out is the worst thing to do in this situation. Looks like some very solid panic free driving to me.
> 
> chuck


What does he mean by "blowing the tunnel out"? Anyone?


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## WestEndAngler

I run mud like this any chance I get. Most the areas I run are over in Port Neches, Baytown areas the tide goes out and mud flats are there. We run them have fun with our AIR COOLED Engines... Some might not like it but it looks good as new once the tide returns and goes back out again. Most places are only accessible during and a few days after a front passes. Here's a video I made:


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## WestEndAngler

Few shots...


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## WestEndAngler

Just don't follow me I guarantee you won't make it  LOL


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## WestEndAngler

BTW - If anyone wants to go with me I am usually out riding around the shallows every weekend. So shoot me a PM and we can get you on the best Mud Motor out there, yeah you can drive!


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## reeltimer

Coe how many people can you have aboard at one time.


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## WestEndAngler

flatswader said:


> Sorry. There is no way ANY boat with a prop could have run through that. I will believe it when you video it. Otherwise B***S***.


Please see the above referenced videos


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## WestEndAngler

reeltimer said:


> Coe how many people can you have aboard at one time.


I've taken off with 6 before. Just depends on the mud. Port Neches mud if you step out your going chest deep! Wallisville is 1' mud with hard bottom so you can get a bite but also not as fun... Port Neches is as close to LA mud as we get here in upper coast. However Wallisville gets great during Summer where as Port Neches the areas we'd play are now the best Redfish ground and we fly fish and sight cast to them. I can't wait for SUMMER


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## fishhound

man this one could last thru the weekend


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## Specks&Spots

WestEndAngler said:


> Please see the above referenced videos


Those videos would give the _Wade_, _Paddle_ & _Pole _guys an aneurysm_. :rotfl:_


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## Barbarian

WestEndAngler said:


> I run mud like this any chance I get. Most the areas I run are over in Port Neches, Baytown areas the tide goes out and mud flats are there. We run them have fun with our AIR COOLED Engines... Some might not like it but it looks good as new once the tide returns and goes back out again. Most places are only accessible during and a few days after a front passes. Here's a video I made:


Where was those things at 10-15 years ago when I needed em'. That is awesome.


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## atcfisherman

Can you buy one of those motors for a regular 1454 jon boat that has a front and back deck? What HP would it take?


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## WestEndAngler

You can but the hulls we use have longitudal bracing which prevents hooks etc. The transom would need to be reinforced as well. Possible to do yes, worth it in long run? No. Are there people doing it sure but these motors run best with an airboat style flat bottom hull. That's how were able to do 360's and 720's 

gator-tail makes a 23hp and a 35hp. I have the 35 on my 1860 hull w/ flotation throughout.


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## fishin shallow

WestEndAngler said:


> I run mud like this any chance I get. Most the areas I run are over in Port Neches, Baytown areas the tide goes out and mud flats are there. We run them have fun with our AIR COOLED Engines... Some might not like it but it looks good as new once the tide returns and goes back out again. Most places are only accessible during and a few days after a front passes. Here's a video I made:


What size motors are on your rigs and how fast do they run? Most of the ones I have seen are going maybe 15mph on the there way to the marsh but you guys seem to be scooting along pretty good


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## WestEndAngler

fishin shallow said:


> What size motors are on your rigs and how fast do they run? Most of the ones I have seen are going maybe 15mph on the there way to the marsh but you guys seem to be scooting along pretty good


I wrote up a whole review on my rig on here, I'll try and find it... I'm running 29-30 by myself in shallow water deep water I get around 28.

http://2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/showpost.php?p=2002394&postcount=75

Full hunting load of say myself, my dog and two buddies dekes etc. I usually make it up the ICW and across the bays doing 24-25MPH


----------



## pmgoffjr

One question, if those pics were accurate, and that trench was made by an outboard, where is the skeg trail?


----------



## WestEndAngler

pmgoffjr said:


> One question, if those pics were accurate, and that trench was made by an outboard, where is the skeg trail?


Yes! But I doubt it was an outboard w/ low water pickup... I'd say 95% sure that's a mud motor going through there. If you go back to the 1st page and see that picture the user posted: You'll see the mud spray from the prop. Which tells me the boat/motor had just gone through there. The tide has yet to return etc. The skeg remains in the mud and protects the prop. I jump TREES going down the Trinity River all the time. Thus the need for the reinforcement so you don't develop hooks in your hull which effects top end speed etc. The motors kick up should you hit something. In one video I posted you'll see me going over a tree blocking a trail. I just go right over it push down on tiller motor clears it goes back into water.

The hull was a flat bottom. Mud Motors are nothing more than a Briggs & Stratton Air Cooled engine with a belt drive. I have reverse on mine as you can see these motors DO back up in mud.


----------



## reeltimer

I think somebody was planting a one row of crops.Thats insane skinny on a flats boat.I could see a New water boatwrks leaving a rut-row like that.


----------



## longboat

Friend of mine runs a 1640 Go-Devil boat with a 29hp Kawasaki (Mud Buddy) shorttail. With a new Tiger prop, he gets about 20mph GPS with two people on board in deep water. Prolly the narrowness of the boat makes it sit deeper in the water and slows the boat down.

Unfortunately, most of the shallows around here are sand. As good as the mud motors are in mud, they are worthless in sand. That is where the tunnel prop excels over the mud motor boats. With enough momentum, I can run 100yds or so over a sandbar submerged under an inch of water with a tunnel prop.

I can see a tunnel prop making the tracks in the original post if there was an inch of water over that mud, then the tide dropped out. That would be little enough water to allow the mud clods to stick where they are, and still let the boat get through.


----------



## WestEndAngler

I think the tide was already out in that picture and only a MM would traverse through there. Yes these aren't sand motors they are mud motors.

I've made it across sandbars that are 3-4" deep but 1"?!... man I'll stick it every time.

I don't think there is a hull / motor combo out there, besides an airboat that will run 1" of water over hard sand bottom for over 100 yards you'll be stuck the physics just aren't right maybe if your were going extremely fast but still the sudden slow down of your hull dragging might eject you from the helm as well.

Remember to always wear your kill switch!


----------



## railbird

GREENLIGHT said:


> What does he mean by "blowing the tunnel out"? Anyone?


Blowing the tunnel out is what I call going too fast and not letting the water fill the tunnel. If you get in super shallow water, if you slow down, there is more time for the hull to deliver all water trapped there to the tunnel. The water when it is fed to the tunnel will rise dew to the "doppler affect" filling the tunnel and supplying water to cool the engine and water for thrust. If you panic and haul arce thru there the water level in the tunnel is vastly reduced. The lesson here is go slower in super shallow water instead of dumping the throttle.

chuck


----------



## bigfishtx

How long do your props last on that mud motor?


----------



## 6.5 shooter dude

I think there was more water there than in the pic. There was a left hand curve made. If there was solid mud the boat would have gone straight.


----------



## WestEndAngler

bigfishtx said:


> How long do your props last on that mud motor?


I usually go through 1 a year. Load carrying ability is drastically decreased once the blade wears down. I'll post up a photo of what sand does to the prop


----------



## WestEndAngler

*Prop*

Here's a photo of a prop I ran all summer in West Bay. I changed it before Teal season so I'm still running the one I bought before hunting season. So about 9 months of running before I replaced it the first time. You can see clearly that sand is your worst enemy!


----------



## longboat

WestEndAngler said:


> I think the tide was already out in that picture and only a MM would traverse through there. Yes these aren't sand motors they are mud motors.
> 
> I've made it across sandbars that are 3-4" deep but 1"?!... man I'll stick it every time.
> 
> I don't think there is a hull / motor combo out there, besides an airboat that will run 1" of water over hard sand bottom for over 100 yards you'll be stuck the physics just aren't right maybe if your were going extremely fast but still the sudden slow down of your hull dragging might eject you from the helm as well.
> 
> Remember to always wear your kill switch!


Since water is non-compressible, it will lift the boat up and support it in 1" between the boat hull and the sandbar, as long as your forward momentum is faster than the water can rush out from the sides underneath the boat. This is why airboats run faster in water that is a few inches deep vs. several feet deep. You've probably experienced it yourself as your boat picks up a little speed when you hit the shallows. I kinda thought it might be a good idea to have ice runners on the chines to help hold that water under the boat, but you would be in a world of hurt with those ice runners if you ever got stuck in the sand.

As long as the prop is up high enough to not slow you down, you can get quite a ways. On the boat I run, the prop and skeg do hang down a coupla inches below the boat bottom when the jackplate is all the way up, so I do dig some sand when I'm planing through 1" of water. Trick is to keep the prop turning fast enough so it doesn't drag you down in the sand and still overcome skeg drag and hope your cooling water holds out until you can get to the edge of the bar. Tunnel design has a lot to do with the water cooling, and it is no place to be under-powered.

I have a raised center console, so have pretty good visibility and try to avoid those sandbars at all times. Sometimes, though, you just have to cross one to get to where you are going, or you run up in an area where your deepwater just disappears and there is no room to turn around. One thing I can't do is jump logs, so I really keep an eye out for those. Grass isn't too much of a problem. The water jackets clog easier in the mud than they do in the sand. However, some motors really don't like sand - I remember some of the 60hp Mercs would easily get sand in the thermostat spring and cause them to overheat. The Yamahas were basically the same motor, but their smaller intake screens kept the coarser sand out, so didn't have thermostat problems. I do go through an impeller every year, two if I'm not careful. However, it is the heat that kills the impeller, not the sand. Would be nice to get an impeller that was more heat-resistant.

Yep, I ALWAYS wear my kill switch!


----------



## WestEndAngler

I know the "lifting" effect you speak of and in Deep Water I can run 28 no problem all day long. When I hit the mud flat or shallows and the boat "rises" I can get another 1-2 mph out of the motor.


----------



## atcfisherman

Someone says the water they run in is 1". Another says the same water is 6" and another say its 10" inches. All three can't be right. I wonder who has stopped the boat on the 1" flat and gotten out to measure it? To run in 1" is call a surface drive motor or an air boat.


----------



## KMock

dos torta said:


> I have come to the conclusion that the majority of people on this site have more experience behind a keyboard than the helm of a boat.


I'll second this. I'll also go along with Railbird, it can be done if done right. I don't have a clue if this was an outboard or a mud motor, but I've seen it done with an outboard in this same bay system. That's my opinion for whatever it's worth. All you unbelievers need to take a ride with Clark Jordan or Jayson Arnold!


----------



## Nocturnal

atcfisherman said:


> I wonder who has stopped the boat on the 1" flat and gotten out to measure it?


Anyone who has tried it has stopped, but I don't know how many actually bother to measure it...

They are usually preoccupied with things like calling Towboats US, googling up a tidal chart on their phone, wondering if they know anyone with an airboat and a tow strap, hating themselves for believing the BS they read on the internet about running in 1" of water, ect....


----------



## atcfisherman

Nocturnal said:


> Anyone who has tried it has stopped, but I don't know how many actually bother to measure it...
> 
> They are usually preoccupied with things like calling Towboats US, googling up a tidal chart on their phone, wondering if they know anyone with an airboat and a tow strap, hating themselves for believing the BS they read on the internet about running in 1" of water, ect....


Very true!!! I forgot about them looking around for some of us who are fishing IN WATER to get our attention to come and try to tow them out. :rotfl:

But, I did forget to mention that I flooded the back yard with 1" of water and tried the same thing and what do you know, it doesn't work there either.. unless it is a surface drive or air boat.


----------



## Nocturnal

atcfisherman said:


> Very true!!! I forgot about them looking around for some of us who are fishing IN WATER to get our attention to come and try to tow them out. :rotfl:
> 
> But, I did forget to mention that I flooded the back yard with 1" of water and tried the same thing and what do you know, it doesn't work there either.. unless it is a surface drive or air boat.


That's because the soft grass absorbs the pressure of the hull trying to compress the water, which kills the lifting effect.

Flood your concrete driveway and then try it.


----------



## atcfisherman

Nocturnal said:


> That's because the soft grass absorbs the pressure of the hull trying to compress the water, which kills the lifting effect.
> 
> Flood your concrete driveway and then try it.


ROFL :rotfl:


----------



## WestEndAngler

Nocturnal said:


> That's because the soft grass absorbs the pressure of the hull trying to compress the water, which kills the lifting effect.
> 
> Flood your concrete driveway and then try it.


LMAO!!! :headknock


----------



## GREENLIGHT

railbird said:


> Blowing the tunnel out is what I call going too fast and not letting the water fill the tunnel. If you get in super shallow water, if you slow down, there is more time for the hull to deliver all water trapped there to the tunnel. The water when it is fed to the tunnel will rise dew to the "doppler affect" filling the tunnel and supplying water to cool the engine and water for thrust. If you panic and haul arce thru there the water level in the tunnel is vastly reduced. The lesson here is go slower in super shallow water instead of dumping the throttle.
> 
> chuck


Railbird thanks for the explaination makes sense. What type of rig do you have? If you don't mind me asking.


----------



## Nocturnal

Part of me feels guilty about laughing at some of the "fluid dynamics-internet theory" getting thrown around in here because some people may honestly not know any better and could go out and tear up their rig or injure themselves.

Just so I sleep better tonight, I'm asking those of you who are unsure to go get a ruler and look at 1", and then apply common sense. 

I've now shed my guilt and will return to laughing...


----------



## drewkana

dos torta said:


> I have come to the conclusion that the majority of people on this site have more experience behind a keyboard than the helm of a boat.


Roger That Sir.


----------



## atcfisherman

Nocturnal said:


> Part of me feels guilty about laughing at some of the "fluid dynamics-internet theory" getting thrown around in here because some people may honestly not know any better and could go out and tear up their rig or injure themselves.
> 
> Just so I sleep better tonight, I'm asking those of you who are unsure to go get a ruler and look at 1", and then apply common sense.
> 
> I've now shed my guilt and will return to laughing...


*But remember, some guys "12 inches" are really "6 inches". So for boating they do the opposite. They thought it was "1 inch" but it really was "10 inches." Heck, just let them take their wives out in the "1 INCH WATER" and see what they say!!!! LOL I bet the "TRUE MEASUREMENT" will be deeper water.*  :doowapsta


----------



## WestEndAngler

I'll take a ruler next time I'm out... It will read 0"


----------



## WestEndAngler

If yall are interested in Mud Motors go visit: www.mudmotortalk.com

Be prepared to experience a whole new way of boating!


----------



## railbird

*Strait Talk*



GREENLIGHT said:


> Railbird thanks for the explaination makes sense. What type of rig do you have? If you don't mind me asking.


I run a 21'RFL. Here are the hard numbers.
*Safe* running for a 1/4 mile.

Hard sand 3"- 3.5" (requires slightly faster approach)
Over NMH type grass bottom 3" without leaving a scar (slightly faster approach)
Over muddy bottom (hard clay) 2" - 2.5" (slower to very slow approach)
Over soft soupy slick mud ackle to knee deep .5" - 1" (slower to very slow approach trimmed lower than the above, when in doubt trim down here)
No water at all, (other than little puddles here and there) just super sloppy soupy mud about calves deep, like pictured in post #1 this thread, I have crossed 75-80 yds without over heating and stayed on plane. The specific area i do this in has deeper water on each side. It also usually has reds trapped in there, thats why I run thru there every time I fish the area. (slow approach until after the turn, then trim down as you get to the end to prop walk the finish)

If operated optimally my boat can run with the skeg and prop completely above the bottom of the boat. I know these numbers because I have been stuck and walked back and measured it. As stated in previous posts, all boats with very flat bottoms ride higher in super shallow conditions allowing for higher prop positions because they need less thrust to stay on plane. With my setup i am cruising at about 5000 rpms like this and am only going maybe 15-20 mph. This is a very inefficeint prop position, but it will pump water at about 20psi forever. Turning high rpms with almost no load on the engine really keeps the very engine cool.

chuck


----------



## fishin shallow

railbird said:


> I run a 21'RFL. Here are the hard numbers.
> *Safe* running for a 1/4 mile.
> 
> Hard sand 3"- 3.5" (requires slightly faster approach)
> Over NMH type grass bottom 3" without leaving a scar (slightly faster approach)
> Over muddy bottom (hard clay) 2" - 2.5" (slower to very slow approach)
> Over soft soupy slick mud ackle to knee deep .5" - 1" (slower to very slow approach trimmed lower than the above, when in doubt trim down here)
> No water at all, (other than little puddles here and there) just super sloppy soupy mud about calves deep, like pictured in post #1 this thread, I have crossed 75-80 yds without over heating and stayed on plane. The specific area i do this in has deeper water on each side. It also usually has reds trapped in there, thats why I run thru there every time I fish the area. (slow approach until after the turn, then trim down as you get to the end to prop walk the finish)
> 
> If operated optimally my boat can run with the skeg and prop completely above the bottom of the boat. I know these numbers because I have been stuck and walked back and measured it. As stated in previous posts, all boats with very flat bottoms ride higher in super shallow conditions allowing for higher prop positions because they need less thrust to stay on plane. With my setup i am cruising at about 5000 rpms like this and am only going maybe 15-20 mph. This is a very inefficeint prop position, but it will pump water at about 20psi forever. Turning high rpms with almost no load on the engine really keeps the very engine cool.
> 
> chuck


Chuck,

Did you figure one day, the heck with it let me see how far my boat can get or was it all just trial and error? How does this affect your overall operation of your motor, more frequent impellars or taking apart LU? And when running thru the mud I guess basically your prop is digging in the mud and pushing your boat cause the area is void of water?


----------



## railbird

fishin shallow said:


> Chuck,
> 
> Did you figure one day, the heck with it let me see how far my boat can get or was it all just trial and error? How does this affect your overall operation of your motor, more frequent impellars or taking apart LU? And when running thru the mud I guess basically your prop is digging in the mud and pushing your boat cause the area is void of water?


To the first question, I pushed boat to its absolute limits when I had help to get it out. I sometimes found myself in situations where I had no choice but to go for it. All of the numbers above coorespond to actual areas i fish regularly. In every case I have found out the hard way what my minimums are.

The easy answer is yes to all of the above. I change my impellor and wear plate every 75-100 hrs. I change the minute my motor can't prime with the motor up on 6 on my jackplate. With my boat, that is 9.5 inches above the transome. Changing those parts takes about 20 minutes, and cost about $35. I change the pump housing every 200hrs. I change gear case oil every 50hrs and motor oil every 80 hrs. I check my tstats every month or if my motor starts to idle rough.

Next question. Actually the area is void of visable water, there is still plenty of water down in the mud. The hull rings the water out as it pushes down on the mud. This water is then fed to the tunnel. I am on the clock in this situation, no water alarm will set me down if I don't reach water soon. I seldom will actually overheat here, but my honda alarms when the temp rises 10 degrees in any 5 second period.

chuck


----------



## aggiefishinDr

So I understand what everyone has been saying. I agree that the mud motor and the like can do that for sure. I am just asking because I do fish alot, maybe not as much as others (I may sit behind a keyboard more than I fish) but not by choice!! If it is soupy mud like in the videos above can a regular outboard do that? Say the boat in question, 21 trancat 150 TRP? The mud to me in the pics looks harder, if it was soupy mud why would it hold the track and the little mud flecks. I would think that it would sink back in? Just wondering, have no experience with this but have been stuck many times. Learning something new may help.


----------



## bb1234

Dang!, that's not with a TRP?



railbird said:


> To the first question, I pushed boat to its absolute limits when I had help to get it out. I sometimes found myself in situations where I had no choice but to go for it. All of the numbers above coorespond to actual areas i fish regularly. In every case I have found out the hard way what my minimums are.
> 
> The easy answer is yes to all of the above. I change my impellor and wear plate every 75-100 hrs. I change the minute my motor can't prime with the motor up on 6 on my jackplate. With my boat, that is 9.5 inches above the transome. Changing those parts takes about 20 minutes, and cost about $35. I change the pump housing every 200hrs. I change gear case oil every 50hrs and motor oil every 80 hrs. I check my tstats every month or if my motor starts to idle rough.
> 
> Next question. Actually the area is void of visable water, there is still plenty of water down in the mud. The hull rings the water out as it pushes down on the mud. This water is then fed to the tunnel. I am on the clock in this situation, no water alarm will set me down if I don't reach water soon. I seldom will actually overheat here, but my honda alarms when the temp rises 10 degrees in any 5 second period.
> 
> chuck


----------



## railbird

bb1234 said:


> Dang!, that's not with a TRP?


TRP is not nearly as necessary when on plane. They are almost a necessity when getting on plane in shallow water. The honda has a remarkable water pumping system. It is far superior to the yamaha in my opinion.


----------



## atcfisherman

aggiefishinDr said:


> So I understand what everyone has been saying. I agree that the mud motor and the like can do that for sure. I am just asking because I do fish alot, maybe not as much as others (I may sit behind a keyboard more than I fish) but not by choice!! If it is soupy mud like in the videos above can a regular outboard do that? Say the boat in question, 21 trancat 150 TRP? The mud to me in the pics looks harder, if it was soupy mud why would it hold the track and the little mud flecks. I would think that it would sink back in? Just wondering, have no experience with this but have been stuck many times. Learning something new may help.


I've seen the mud boat motors do that, but never a regular boat. Need true video to believe it can run in 0.5-1" if water. Now I have seen videos of tunnel boats running up near the shore while someone is standing in ankle deep water. But, that is about 5-7" which is a far cry from the 0.5-1" depth that some say they run in. Also, the boat is usually on the deeper side and coming from deep water and will run in that 5-7" range for only about 10-15 yards and then shoot back out to deep water.

If someone really wants to prove that their shallow water boat with a traditional outboard can run in 0.5-1" of water, then there are some places in the Trinity River Marsh area that I would like to take them. However there is a catch. I will video it, but I WILL LEAVE ONCE THEY GET STUCK. I WILL NOT PULL THEM OUT WHEN THEY ARE SITTING HIGH AND STUCK IN MUD.


----------



## railbird

*better idea*



atcfisherman said:


> I've seen the mud boat motors do that, but never a regular boat. Need true video to believe it can run in 0.5-1" if water. Now I have seen videos of tunnel boats running up near the shore while someone is standing in ankle deep water. But, that is about 5-7" which is a far cry from the 0.5-1" depth that some say they run in. Also, the boat is usually on the deeper side and coming from deep water and will run in that 5-7" range for only about 10-15 yards and then shoot back out to deep water.
> 
> If someone really wants to prove that their shallow water boat with a traditional outboard can run in 0.5-1" of water, then there are some places in the Trinity River Marsh area that I would like to take them. However there is a catch. I will video it, but I WILL LEAVE ONCE THEY GET STUCK. I WILL NOT PULL THEM OUT WHEN THEY ARE SITTING HIGH AND STUCK IN MUD.


Next time you are down near corpus pm me and bring your video camera and your wallet. We can solve this the old fasioned way, with a little wager. Where i fish and do this its 12 miles from the nearest boat ramp, so if you want to walk home i will be glad to pull over and let you walk.

chuck


----------



## aggiefishinDr

Hey Railbird, 

I saw that you run a 21 RFL but what engine are you running? Standard outboard? I am game for going you with you just to learn some new skills!!


----------



## Nocturnal

If the consistency of the mud is closer to water, like in those mud boat videos, then I beleive that an extreme shallow water rig like an RFL or an SS scooter could plow a good ways through it.

The mud in the pic doesn't really look all that soupy. There is no water standing in the "prop" rut and the splattered mud isn't being absorbed back into it.


But hey, there is a picture so it must be true, right?...


----------



## railbird

*Motor*



aggiefishinDr said:


> Hey Railbird,
> 
> I saw that you run a 21 RFL but what engine are you running? Standard outboard? I am game for going you with you just to learn some new skills!!


I'm running a bf150 honda. I am in the process of uploading some videos I had a buddy shoot today. If I can, I will get some more soon. This is just a small taste for the doubters.

chuck


----------



## railbird

Takes awhile guys bare with me. rsparker67 shot the videos. We missed the video on the way out of that mud flat that i started the video with. Will try to get more tomorrow or monday if the low tides hold. I just checked the down load, it said I had 10 minutes remaining. I will post link asap.

chuck


----------



## railbird

*Youtube Video*

Here it is it says it is still processing, but you can play it now. Quality is supposed to get better later. Enjoy


----------



## Bigdsduty

*Railbird*

Railbird,

It was clearly stated in previous post that this is not possible. So don't even bother uploading any of the videos of you going through some no water areas. Not possible, must be videoshopped!!!!!


----------



## railbird

Bigdsduty said:


> Railbird,
> 
> It was clearly stated in previous post that this is not possible. So don't even bother uploading any of the videos of you going through some no water areas. Not possible, must be videoshopped!!!!!


The naysayer are amature boaters with absolutely no skinny water experience. I am going to get a better video camera and watch the tides. The problem with where i'm going is its a 25 mile boatride round trip. These guys haven't a clue, you and I know it. Funniest part is all was done with my lil ole honda, not even a trp. lol

chuck


----------



## rsparker67

But Railbird, you didnt stop to measure!!! 
Maybe they can ask the birds that we pass by standing in water up to their ankles how deep the water is?


----------



## railbird

rsparker67 said:


> But Railbird, you didnt stop to measure!!!
> Maybe they can ask the birds that we pass by standing in water up to their ankles how deep the water is?


Yeah, I forgot my ruler. I figured most could tell by the wake when you Panned to the back. A 1-2" wake equals a very shallow spot. The depth in the slough was never more than about 4-5 inches. And notice how easy the turns are. slow is the key.

chuck


----------



## Nocturnal

Cool video.



Nocturnal said:


> If the consistency of the mud is closer to water, like in those mud boat videos, then I beleive that an extreme shallow water rig like an RFL or an SS scooter could plow a good ways through it.


----------



## Capt.Troy

Cool video Railbird. I've ridden in a Redfish Line with a TRP, 21 Tran Cat, and I own an 18 Shallow Sport and it totally amazes me what they will run in. Like yall said before, if you've never done it or seen it you just don't understand.


----------



## bb1234

Most Impressive!


----------



## vtx18c

*WOW*

Thanks for the video awesome.!!!!


----------



## Spots and Dots

So, here's my question:
What happens when you've been running shallow for a L O N G way, and then get stuck?

Our boat will run pretty dang shallow, and I am too skeered to push it to find out how shallow it won't run, or where I can't go. I really want to learn how to get around int eh far back lakes of POC, but don't have the juevos to try on my own.


----------



## railbird

Spots and Dots said:


> So, here's my question:
> What happens when you've been running shallow for a L O N G way, and then get stuck?
> 
> Our boat will run pretty dang shallow, and I am too skeered to push it to find out how shallow it won't run, or where I can't go. I really want to learn how to get around int eh far back lakes of POC, but don't have the juevos to try on my own.


Unfortunately sometimes that happens. (Getting stuck.) I don't push my luck in sand. My rule of thumb is don't get in a spot where I have to turn a 180 in a tight area. The best way to learn your boats abilities is to test in areas close to deeper water. Know your area before you push your luck. The most important advice I can give is know the tide before you go. I check my tides before i leave the ramp. I look at docks, internet, posts and such where i fish. I have installed pvc pipes in discrete areas with marks on them telling me floating depth and running minimums. I do not as a general rule just take off and try new water. I also go to areas I want to learn at extremely high tides and measure the depth and record the tide at the time so i can work backwards for the future. An example I would check the tide at the freeport tide station and measure the depth where I'm fishing, then I will placemark that spot on google earth with a tide reading like this (freeport 28.5' depth 11.5"). This will give me a datum for future reference. I seldom go places without knowing I can.

chuck


----------



## atcfisherman

railbird said:


> The naysayer are amature boaters with absolutely no skinny water experience. I am going to get a better video camera and watch the tides. The problem with where i'm going is its a 25 mile boatride round trip. These guys haven't a clue, you and I know it. Funniest part is all was done with my lil ole honda, not even a trp. lol
> 
> chuck


First, I was going to say based on your video that I stand corrected. I haven't been in a skinny water boat that could do what your video showed. However, to say the "naysayer is amature boater" is farthest from the truth and out right offensive. My skinny water is 10-12 inches, but I have been boating since I was in Jr High School and I am now 43. I have and 11 boats of my own and average of at least once a week fishing. So, amature boater, you have that totally wrong. Now can your boat run real skinny water, yes.


----------



## Blue Fury

railbird said:


> Here it is it says it is still processing, but you can play it now. Quality is supposed to get better later. Enjoy


LOVE your video..I have some sweet footage of running skinny in my RFL, BUT your parts of going over literally 1/2" water and exposed mud...impressive railbird. I would like to go with you sometime..im sure i can learn something on how to run my boat more efficient in shallow water.


----------



## railbird

atcfisherman said:


> First, I was going to say based on your video that I stand corrected. I haven't been in a skinny water boat that could do what your video showed. However, to say the "naysayer is amature boater" is farthest from the truth and out right offensive. My skinny water is 10-12 inches, but I have been boating since I was in Jr High School and I am now 43. I have and 11 boats of my own and average of at least once a week fishing. So, amature boater, you have that totally wrong. Now can your boat run real skinny water, yes.


Sorry ATC, I couldn't resist taking that shot. My point was most poeple never go shallower than 10-12 inches. That is a good thing, because only a few boats are capable of running in the extremes. My deal here was don't doubt the mans word on something, because you have never seen it done. I know its hard to believe outboards can do this, but it is done every day by backwater guys. The key is slick mud and very efficient tunnels. The flatter the boat, the more it will hydroplane. Even cars can hydroplane at 35mph on 4 skinny little tires. Take another look at the video, see how little mud there is in the propwash. That is because the motor is running on water delivered by the tunnel and it is completely above the bottom of the boat. This setup can only be used if in very shallow water with ground effect water entrapment.

I too spent many years in boats, I grew up on the nueces river and was driving boats as soon as I was able to pull start them. I had no clue how to run this boat when i bought it. It has taken 4 years of fishing 3-7 days a week learning different things about it, and I am still learning things almost every day.

chuck


----------



## railbird

railbird said:


> Sorry ATC, I couldn't resist taking that shot. My point was most poeple never go shallower than 10-12 inches. That is a good thing, because only a few boats are capable of running in the extremes. My deal here was don't doubt the mans word on something, because you have never seen it done. I know its hard to believe outboards can do this, but it is done every day by backwater guys. The key is slick mud and very efficient tunnels. The flatter the boat, the more it will hydroplane. Even cars can hydroplane at 35mph on 4 skinny little tires. Take another look at the video, see how little mud there is in the propwash. That is because the motor is running on water delivered by the tunnel and it is completely above the bottom of the boat. This setup can only be used if in very shallow water with ground effect water entrapment.
> 
> I too spent many years in boats, I grew up on the nueces river and was driving boats as soon as I was able to pull start them. I had no clue how to run this boat when i bought it. It has taken 4 years of fishing 3-7 days a week learning different things about it, and I am still learning things almost every day.
> 
> chuck


Sorry guys just checked the video, didn't supply a wake shot without glare. Here is a turn in a very shallow spot, we were coming around a corner and saw someone setup on a bar we had to jump so we turned around.


----------



## patwilson

That is some of the best driving I have seen. The key is not to panic and make sure you are slow enough to keep water in the tunnel?


----------



## railbird

patwilson said:


> The key is not to panic and make sure you are slow enough to keep water in the tunnel?


Yes, the general rule is the shallower the water the slower you need to go. The boat doesn't need as much thrust in super shallow water because it rides higher in the column, reducing drag. It takes far more power to remain on plane in the ICW than on a 4 inch flat. If over sand, speed needs to be slightly higher to handle the high spots and the motor needs to be above the bottom of the hull. Its always better to have extra power available instead of running flatout. Be careful sand will grind you to a hault.

chuck


----------



## Spots and Dots

Railbird, 


How about a picture of that prop you were working on a while back. Is that the same one you're running now?

You could PM me a pic if you want to keep it secret.


----------



## DHS

*prop??*

yea i heard you had a prop coming to market soon. Is this the prop you were running?


----------



## TexasFlats

railbird said:


> The naysayer are amature boaters with absolutely no skinny water experience. I am going to get a better video camera and watch the tides. The problem with *where i'm going is its a 25 mile boatride round trip*. These guys haven't a clue, you and I know it. Funniest part is all was done with my lil ole honda, not even a trp. lol
> 
> chuck


I wouldn't try that in Titlum Tatlum, much less 12 miles away from help 

My boat can run skinny, but getting stuck can ruin a day - or a weekend - of fishing.

Hmmm, I wonder how much the Heli-Snatch option is at Boat US?

.


----------



## kcliff

Clearly that is a hover craft lol



railbird said:


> Here it is it says it is still processing, but you can play it now. Quality is supposed to get better later. Enjoy


----------



## Nocturnal

Running an RFL or a mud boat though mud soup is a different proposition that jumping a mud bar with no water in a Trancat.


Good driving and cool video, nonetheless...


----------



## aggiefishinDr

Awesome videos!! That is some great driving.

Nocturnal I agree!! Still have not seen a trancat go over dry land!


----------



## railbird

aggiefishinDr said:


> Awesome videos!! That is some great driving.
> 
> Nocturnal I agree!! Still have not seen a trancat go over dry land!


Video over dry ground tomorrow. It looks like the tides will hold. I plan on 400 yds of 1/2 inch and finish with 80 yds of no water at all. Will supply a video as soon as i get home.

chuck


----------



## railbird

DHS said:


> yea i heard you had a prop coming to market soon. Is this the prop you were running?


Yes, this is my prop design. I will not be supplying pic's of my prop before i get ready. The prop is a few months away from being available.

chuck


----------



## atcfisherman

railbird said:


> Sorry guys just checked the video, didn't supply a wake shot without glare. Here is a turn in a very shallow spot, we were coming around a corner and saw someone setup on a bar we had to jump so we turned around.


Now that is pretty amazing!!! You mentioned tunnel, thus I assume the RFL has a tunnel. To run this skinny you must have a tunnel, but I have heard some people say you don't need a tunnel to run this shallow. Some of the Hayines don't have tunnels and the guy at the Haynie display at the boat show told you I didn't need a tunnel to run in shallow water in the 6-8" range. That is hard to believe there. Now with a tunnel, I can see that all day and that is before seeing your videos of running in puddle skinny water.

Anyway, thanks for the education.


----------



## wcvickers

Have had my RFL for almost a year now, but haven't logged enough hours to try that yet! Pretty amazing...


----------



## railbird

wcvickers said:


> Have had my RFL for almost a year now, but haven't logged enough hours to try that yet! Pretty amazing...


21RFL is the shallowest running boat on the market. Just have to avoid hard sand. Know where you are and sign up with a towing service. lol


----------



## Nocturnal

atcfisherman said:


> Now that is pretty amazing!!! You mentioned tunnel, thus I assume the RFL has a tunnel. To run this skinny you must have a tunnel, but I have heard some people say you don't need a tunnel to run this shallow. Some of the Hayines don't have tunnels and the guy at the Haynie display at the boat show told you I didn't need a tunnel to run in shallow water in the 6-8" range. That is hard to believe there. Now with a tunnel, I can see that all day and that is before seeing your videos of running in puddle skinny water.
> 
> Anyway, thanks for the education.


The Majek Redfish Line is the top 1% of shallow water boats. Yes, it has a tunnel along with a huge footprint that allows it to go where the other 99% wouldn't dream of going....tunnel or no tunnel.


----------



## wcvickers

railbird said:


> 21RFL is the shallowest running boat on the market. Just have to avoid hard sand. Know where you are and sign up with a towing service. lol


Learned that the hard way. The only time I've grounded so far was in hard sand, trying to run to the Fish Pond.


----------



## GREENLIGHT

railbird said:


> Yes, this is my prop design. I will not be supplying pic's of my prop before i get ready. The prop is a few months away from being available.
> 
> chuck


Hey Railbird how important is the prop and the props design when running shallow? I know its critical for the hole shot but as far as just running, turning and accelerating in 1"-2" of water.


----------



## railbird

GREENLIGHT said:


> Hey Railbird how important is the prop and the props design when running shallow? I know its critical for the hole shot but as far as just running, turning and accelerating in 1"-2" of water.


Prop design is very important for hole shot, not as much in running super shallow, but a well designed prop with proper cup can save your butt in a tight spot. Mainly cup is important in real high trim settings so it doesn't blow out. The TRP is going to be great in all areas of course.

chuck


----------



## railbird

*Tides didn't hold.*

Well the tides came back in a little too much, but here is some more video of running thru 2" water. My measuring tool is a flow torque hub insert. Pay close attention to my foot prints on the last run out, I smooth them out with my buggy. I also have included som back water driving for fun. No smart alleck comments about my belly and the waders. I am sensitive and have very tender feelings. lol





 skinny runs





 fun stuff in backwater


----------



## Gilbert

railbird said:


> Well the tides came back in a little too much, but here is some more video of running thru 2" water. My measuring tool is a flow torque hub insert. Pay close attention to my foot prints on the last run out, I smooth them out with my buggy. I also have included som back water driving for fun. No smart alleck comments about my belly and the waders. I am sensitive and have very tender feelings. lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> skinny runs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fun stuff in backwater


when do I get an invite to come fishing with you?


----------



## railbird

Gilbert said:


> when do I get an invite to come fishing with you?


When will you be in corpus? I fish almost every day, and am always hunting a fishing partner.

chuck


----------



## rsparker67

hey, thanks for scaring all the fish away....


----------



## railbird

rsparker67 said:


> hey, thanks for scaring all the fish away....


What fish? You should know from saturday there ain't no fish in there yet. You sure you aren't "chugger" parker. lol


----------



## Gilbert

that's some wicked slides.

I'd be in the grass if I tried that **** :rotfl: :headknock


----------



## rsparker67

lol, i think i see a blade of grass out there where your fat arse was standing.....


----------



## rsparker67

Gilbert said:


> that's some wicked slides.
> 
> I'd be in the grass if I tried that **** :rotfl: :headknock


 How do you think he learned...


----------



## Fowlhooked

Thanks for posting the videos, and great driving! I'm sure this has opened some eyes to some people that aren't familiar with what a good shallow water boat can do.


----------



## Bigdsduty

*Railbird*

Hey Railbird, how did you rig that Honda cowling and midsection cover on that mud motor? You almost had me convinced that was an outboard for a second.
Also those runs don't count even if it is an outboard as there is clearly water everywhere; nice try but not going to count for some in this crowd. You need to go across a 20-30 yard section of mud only, but why bother an outboard can't do it.


----------



## railbird

Bigdsduty said:


> Hey Railbird, how did you rig that Honda cowling and midsection cover on that mud motor? You almost had me convinced that was an outboard for a second.
> Also those runs don't count even if it is an outboard as there is clearly water everywhere; nice try but not going to count for some in this crowd. You need to go across a 20-30 yard section of mud only, but why bother an outboard can't do it.


I am going to pick a perfect tide for it, I took a chance the water hadn't made it back there today, but I was late. When It gets right, I will go back through there with only a few puddles here and there. That honda is a mud motor haven't you heard. lol

chuck


----------



## railbird

rsparker67 said:


> lol, i think i see a blade of grass out there where your fat arse was standing.....


Fat jokes! parker you are pushing your luck. lol


----------



## Bigdsduty

I'll give you props on the 150 Honda's, they are bad arse little motors and just keep going even when abused. Now as far as my pig goes, she's smooth, quiet, reliable and will sip fuel, but her gearing and weight suck. 
Then again my boat is not made/designed for speed, so I may be expecting too much out of the Honda.

Great videos, and I appreciate you taking the time to film and share them with us.

BTW, are you a whiskey drinker?????



railbird said:


> I am going to pick a perfect tide for it, I took a chance the water hadn't made it back there today, but I was late. When It gets right, I will go back through there with only a few puddles here and there. That hona is a mud motor haven't you heard. lol
> 
> chuck


----------



## rsparker67

Bigdsduty said:


> BTW, are you a whiskey drinker?????


 Railbird isnt but how about some Crown for the camara man?


----------



## Bigdsduty

rsparker67 said:


> Railbird isnt but how about some Crown for the camara man?


Does UPS deliver to the Cut?

Okay, sounds like a case of beer for the Bird and a gallon of Crown for Parker.

There's a catch though; I get the first drink.

See you in a few months.


----------



## rsparker67

Bigdsduty said:


> Does UPS deliver to the Cut?
> 
> Okay, sounds like a case of beer for the Bird and a gallon of Crown for Parker.
> 
> There's a catch though; I get the first drink.
> 
> See you in a few months.


 Sounds like a plan!


----------



## railbird

rsparker67 said:


> Sounds like a plan!


X2


----------



## wcvickers

railbird said:


> When will you be in corpus? I fish almost every day, and am always hunting a fishing partner.
> 
> chuck


I'd love to ride along with you just to take notes on your awesome driving skills. You da man!


----------



## DHS

*Stroke that Ego*

He's already hard to be around!! Keep strokin that ego and his head going to swell so big it's going to have it's own gravitational pull.


----------



## Nocturnal

Very cool videos. Especially the slides.


----------



## skinnywater

dos torta said:


> I have come to the conclusion that the majority of people on this site have more experience behind a keyboard than the helm of a boat.


So true!!!


----------



## bb1234

Bad to the bone, babababa bad. So do all different outboards on the RFL perform similar, or do you have that one tweaked to perfection(nose cone,etc.???)


----------



## rsparker67

DHS said:


> He's already hard to be around!! Keep strokin that ego and his head going to swell so big it's going to have it's own gravitational pull.


 DHS, I was just thinking the same thing....


----------



## El Primero

I think we all need to go down to the cut and discuss all these matters over lots of cold beezies! I can hear Chuck from Corpus.....I think...oops no I'm certain...


----------



## rbank

*wow*

Man that's cool Railbird. You are awesome. You can sure burn alot of shorelines with that boat. If you ever get stuck you can always pole your boat out with that pushpole. The ladder is also awesome and cool. Please video some more action. I would like to see you release a fish from your deer stand.


----------



## Bigdsduty

El Primero said:


> I think we all need to go down to the cut and discuss all these matters over lots of cold beezies! I can hear Chuck from Corpus.....I think...oops no I'm certain...


Scott,

Did you, Chuck and Damon ever get a bite on selling the cabin behind the gauge???

Is it still for rent?

Jason


----------



## El Primero

Ya we sold in late November or early December. It was a bit more to keep up with than we had planned. I believe the guy that bought it had full intention of renting still.


----------



## railbird

DHS said:


> He's already hard to be around!! Keep strokin that ego and his head going to swell so big it's going to have it's own gravitational pull.


Dang DHS you must have been watching me pee again!! lol


----------



## TooShallow

Nowhere did I see 2" of water expect maybe where you hit bottom and threw some mud rooster tail for a few yards. If you're running a prop drive tunnel hull in 2" there's gonna be some mud in your prop wash; no if ands or buts about it; and you aint gonna make it very far. I'm too old and been there and done that too many times to believe otherwise. I really want to see your boast of going through there when there's only a few puddles here and there. Let's see it.


----------



## railbird

TooShallow said:


> Nowhere did I see 2" of water expect maybe where you hit bottom and threw some mud rooster tail for a few yards. If you're running a prop drive tunnel hull in 2" there's gonna be some mud in your prop wash; no if ands or buts about it; and you aint gonna make it very far. I'm too old and been there and done that too many times to believe otherwise. I really want to see your boast of going through there when there's only a few puddles here and there. Let's see it.


You better go look at the videos from saturday you dottering old fool. Did you see the flow torque hub that is 4' tall? I don't have the here and there video, but I will supply one as soon as the tides are right. Here is the link from saturday.






Your right, that wasn't 2" either.

chuck


----------



## flatswader

*I Stand Corrected*

Ok. I stand corrected. I don't think my 18' RFL can run as skinny as the 21'. Not sure I wanna know. I think the Majek 21' RFL is the best flats boat in the market!!! Thanks for the great videos Railbird.



flatswader said:


> Sorry. There is no way ANY boat with a prop could have run through that. I will believe it when you video it. Otherwise B***S***.


----------



## TexasFlats

Railbird -

I'm curious to see if you have a compression/anti-cavitation plate on the motor - ? If so, which one?

TF

.


----------



## railbird

*This is for tooshallow*



railbird said:


> There is no doubt in my mind what he did is possible. Here is an example of a simular area near corpus. This was posted by a buddy after a trip thru a nasty spot. The total distance is 80yds. The neatest part about this picture is it represents a 60 degree turn in a foot of water from a tight cut. The turn causes a slide, so management of speed is critical. I hit this at a speed of maybe 20 mph and crossed it. What you boys don't understand is that mud is about the consistency of a chocolate malt. To make it to safety you have to get to the water that is 2" deep on the other side, from there you never come off plane.
> 
> chuck


This is the exact same place i did the video in yesterday. The view is the same in the opening seen with the pelican. I guess this isn't shallower than 2" either.

chuck


----------



## Levi

I have done the same in my 16ft Majek, but its not as skinny as the 21rfl....................................................................The tide fell out from under me in the marsh, I made it about 250 yards in soft mud and about 1in of water.. Fell 30 yards short of the bayou.. With a 21RFL and a TRP I would have made it.


----------



## raz1056

Where are all those 23ft shoalwater cat followers now? They can't say they could follow you there. They may outrun you in the chop but not even get close to you where you were running.


----------



## GREENLIGHT

railbird said:


> Prop design is very important for hole shot, not as much in running super shallow, but a well designed prop with proper cup can save your butt in a tight spot. Mainly cup is important in real high trim settings so it doesn't blow out. The TRP is going to be great in all areas of course.
> 
> chuck


Railbird that is some nice footage. I appreciate you answering my questions and sharing some information/video. I learned quite a bit in the last couple of days. I just got my first shallow running boat (18' SS) and I am still learning how to use it and maneuver witout getting stuck. I dont know if I will ever have the guts to go as shallow as you but 5-10 inch will do for me! Thanks


----------



## WestEndAngler

Here's that 0" video I promised...






Were going this weekend if anyone is interested in seeing the MM in action. We have plenty of winches so those that want to run shallow in a tunnel / outboard come on out! We'll pull you out


----------



## bigfishtx

raz1056 said:


> Where are all those 23ft shoalwater cat followers now? They can't say they could follow you there. They may outrun you in the chop but not even get close to you where you were running.


I am one of those 23 Shoatwater Cat owners. I had a 20' Shallowsport, which will run just as shallow as a Redfish line.

It will not run as Shallow as your boat, but it will float just as shallow.

Of course, running those boats for the last 20+ years, I can't ever remember needing to run in less than 5" of water. I guess if you know the bay and know where to go, you don't need to play that game.

If I did need to run in that kind of water on a regular basis, I woud have an airboat.

I am not giving up the smooth, dry ride to gain another 3" of shallow water performance.


----------



## raz1056

I agree, most of the time you can run around the super shallows. Alot of the boat manufacturers today have boats that run plenty shallow. Not all of them can stop and get them back up. Most of the shallow boat owners found out what they can do by fishing some back lake and the tide went out on them. It meant either trying to make it out and maybe getting stuck or staying put and being stuck until high tide. I see alot of the new boats getting up shallow but most of them are using alot of horsepower throwing roosters full of mud to get up. That is not the case with the rfl or shallowsport. The downside is the rough ride. Every angler must find what best fits his style of fishing. For railbird the rfl is his style and impressive none the less. The 23ft shoalwater comment was just for fun. I just did not see many of them posting anything like they did on the last skinny water thread.


----------



## westexas

Hey rail cool video!! Tanks for sharing but i wanna see what the bottom of that boat looks like, surly has some whisky scrapes?


----------



## Slimshady

bigfishtx said:


> I am one of those 23 Shoatwater Cat owners. I had a 20' Shallowsport, which will run just as shallow as a Redfish line.
> 
> It will not run as Shallow as your boat, but it will float just as shallow.
> 
> Of course, running those boats for the last 20+ years, I can't ever remember needing to run in less than 5" of water. I guess if you know the bay and know where to go, you don't need to play that game.
> 
> If I did need to run in that kind of water on a regular basis, I woud have an airboat.
> 
> I am not giving up the smooth, dry ride to gain another 3" of shallow water performance.


I have a 20' SS thats setup as well as expected. Gets up as good as a RFL and runs just a quick. It probably comes down to less than a inch but a RFL with a TRP can outperform a SS. There, I said it.


----------



## bigfishtx

Slimshady said:


> I have a 20' SS thats setup as well as expected. Gets up as good as a RFL and runs just a quick. It probably comes down to less than a inch but a RFL with a TRP can outperform a SS. There, I said it.


There are plenty of guides down in Port Isabel of Port Mansfield that will argue that with you all day long. 

They both run plenty shallow.


----------



## fishin shallow

bigfishtx said:


> There are plenty of guides down in Port Isabel of Port Mansfield that will argue that with you all day long.
> 
> They both run plenty shallow.


Only because they are built in the valley and you see lots of them down here as well as Dargel's. Go to Corpus and all the crave is about Majeks because they are built in Corpus. There are a few Majek's in the RGV but lots of guides are running SS's


----------



## raz1056

I can't wait for railbird's other video when the tides work with him. I too would like to see the rfl walking on land. Having owned 2 trans, 2 explorers, 2 majeks, and a flatscat I have seen some pretty amazing things. The new video will just be one more.


----------



## NewbieFisher

from the original pictures, I dont see how anyone could dispute this not being a cat boat with trp.
Look at the mud thrown on BOTH sides of track. Onlt a trp will throw mud on both sides.
A single prop, even a mud motor, would throw mud on one side only.

Besides, I know they will do it. Been there, done it. Only out of necessity.


----------



## WestEndAngler

NewbieFisher said:


> from the original pictures, I dont see how anyone could dispute this not being a cat boat with trp.
> Look at the mud thrown on BOTH sides of track. Onlt a trp will throw mud on both sides.
> A single prop, even a mud motor, would throw mud on one side only.
> 
> Besides, I know they will do it. Been there, done it. Only out of necessity.


I throw mud on both sides of my engine... see the above posted video: 2 min mark to 3:30 min mark you'll see a mm rig come right down and see the mud thrown on both sides.






The original photo to me looks like a flat bottom rig went through there smooth surface all across with a ditch and mud spray from the skeg / prop.

I'd like to take a ride on Railbird's boat though looks like a fun time!


----------



## NewbieFisher

WestEndAngler said:


> I throw mud on both sides of my engine... see the above posted video: 2 min mark to 3:30 min mark you'll see a mm rig come right down and see the mud thrown on both sides.
> 
> !


Not like what that trp threw on the starboard side.


----------



## RedAg

*23 SW Cat*



raz1056 said:


> Where are all those 23ft shoalwater cat followers now? They can't say they could follow you there. They may outrun you in the chop but not even get close to you where you were running.


I'm here (Been tied up at work for too long), and still smillin from ear to ear.:doowapsta I can say I have not tested my rig in water that shallow, that being said I have run across water about 3 - 4 " without any problems at all. They key as chuck has stated is staying on plane, and still having power in your motor, not approaching the water at full speed just hoping to make it across. That was some impressive driving Chuck! There is no doubt you have mastered your rig. Turning in shallow water like that takes some skill and many hours on the water learning your boat and the area you are in. You cannot replace that knowledge with any boat.

I can say this, my cat will float in 6 to 6.5 inches depending on how I am rigged, and get up in just as shallow as long as I have some soft to semi soft bottom. Oh yeah did I forget to mention, that it will also eat the chop up like a knife through butter. Nice to be able to ride in chop 2+ ft and go 50+ and not get beat up. Anyone else want to make that claim, while still getting the shallow water performance?

Again Chuck, VERY IMPRESSIVE!


----------



## Coastline Marine

First off let me say that this has been one of my most faviorite threads of all time... This is exactly how I like to run a boat and where I like to go to find fish...

Trey,

Can you show me a pic of your 23 Cat floating in 6" of water? Let me say that I am not doubting you at all and would love for that to be true bc hell I sale the Haynie Cats and they are the same boat...bc my 21 Shallowsport needs 7-7.5" how I have it rigged and If that big boat of yours does what it does and still floats in 6" then that is **** impressive...It just contradicts what ive seen in the few 23 Shoalwaters I've been in...

I hope no one takes this question as diggin on trey bc I like him alot and I usually stay out of these controversial discussions but I would really be interested to see that boat floating in 6" of water

Thanks,

Cole Starr---Coastline Marine


----------



## WestEndAngler

NewbieFisher said:


> Not like what that trp threw on the starboard side.


They all throw a rooster tail just depends on your speed and where we have the motors trimmed too... Here's a good example. Check out the guys riding around throwing the huge rooster tail, towards the end of the video you'll see me and I'm not throwing anything really cause I have it trimmed down for more "bite"






So where was the photo from P. 1 taken? I love exploring new areas


----------



## bigfishtx

Coastline Marine said:


> First off let me say that this has been one of my most faviorite threads of all time... This is exactly how I like to run a boat and where I like to go to find fish...
> 
> Trey,
> 
> Can you show me a pic of your 23 Cat floating in 6" of water? Let me say that I am not doubting you at all and would love for that to be true bc hell I sale the Haynie Cats and they are the same boat...bc my 21 Shallowsport needs 7-7.5" how I have it rigged and If that big boat of yours does what it does and still floats in 6" then that is **** impressive...It just contradicts what ive seen in the few 23 Shoalwaters I've been in...
> 
> I hope no one takes this question as diggin on trey bc I like him alot and I usually stay out of these controversial discussions but I would really be interested to see that boat floating in 6" of water
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Cole Starr---Coastline Marine


I had a 20' Shallowsport and now have a 23' Shoalwater Cat and it will float in 6" of water. I will be glad to take you for a ride sometime, You can PM me. 
Like I said before, it will not run as Shallow but it will float in less water.


----------



## railbird

Anyone here in corpus want to go do something stupid? I think the tides are right, but the rain might be a problem. I think the no water video is doable today. The only problem is no sunlight.

chuck


----------



## Coastline Marine

Bigfishtx,

I really appreciate the offer I've been in a few of them and while I haven't taken out a check-it-stick, I feel like i had a good idea of what we were floating in....I wouldn't want to waste your time on a ride bc like I said ive ridden in a few..but I would like to see it float in 6"......where are you located?

Thanks,

Cole


----------



## bigfishtx

Boat is in Aransas.

We will be down on weekends starting in April. Give me a shout.


----------



## Fishtexx

One of the best threads ever! Thanks guy's, I've learned a little and enjoyed alot. Railbird, you are one hell of a shallow water capt sir, hats off to you. WestEnd,you got some fun looking stuff goin on with the mud boats. I have a question for you tho, how does the performance of a outboard (GatorTail) compare to some of the inboard mud boats that I have seen ? I would think if you stick an inboard...your stuck. With the Gatertail you move the stern around to free it? Again, GREAT THREAD!


----------



## raz1056

I have a feeling that when railbird makes his other video he will only make this thread better. I can't wait to see it. Come on sun and low tides.


----------



## RedAg

Coastline Marine said:


> First off let me say that this has been one of my most faviorite threads of all time... This is exactly how I like to run a boat and where I like to go to find fish...
> 
> Trey,
> 
> Can you show me a pic of your 23 Cat floating in 6" of water? Let me say that I am not doubting you at all and would love for that to be true bc hell I sale the Haynie Cats and they are the same boat...bc my 21 Shallowsport needs 7-7.5" how I have it rigged and If that big boat of yours does what it does and still floats in 6" then that is **** impressive...It just contradicts what ive seen in the few 23 Shoalwaters I've been in...
> 
> I hope no one takes this question as diggin on trey bc I like him alot and I usually stay out of these controversial discussions but I would really be interested to see that boat floating in 6" of water
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Cole Starr---Coastline Marine


Cole, I had a hard time believing it would float in 6" as well until I did it. TBH, it might take 6.5 but it will do it. I think the boat being almost 9 ft wide is what helps it float so shallow. Let me know a weekend you are free and we can go for a spin around here, and maybe wet a line as well. As for a PIC, I have not thought to take one, but will be sure to take out the checkit stick on the next run.

Be free to ask Te.Jas.On or Miles2fish, as he thought no way until he experienced it for himself. To quote, Jason, I couldn't believe it until I went in it. This boat will float as shallow as my Beavertail, except I just can't pole it.

I can't wait to see what the new haynie cat will do as well. Should be a great boat. They look like twin sisters.

Trey


----------



## WestEndAngler

FISHTEXX said:


> One of the best threads ever! Thanks guy's, I've learned a little and enjoyed alot. Railbird, you are one hell of a shallow water capt sir, hats off to you. WestEnd,you got some fun looking stuff goin on with the mud boats. I have a question for you tho, how does the performance of a outboard (GatorTail) compare to some of the inboard mud boats that I have seen ? I would think if you stick an inboard...your stuck. With the Gatertail you move the stern around to free it? Again, GREAT THREAD!


The way I look at it if you have the tiller (outboard) = 4x4 as you can man handle it toss it around side to side trim it up and down move the stern to mud that hasn't been run through etc. all of which gives your more bite and increases your chances of getting out. That being said, the above mentioned is all very hard to do with a center console rig but it can be done... I'm not experienced with the inboard mud boats but I don't think they'd be as maneuverable as a tiller (outboard) style or even the CC version

The problem you get into is... yeah I can tear across a mud flat but can you STOP?! Then start back up again... Most boats just glide across stuff the real test is putting it in park (motor off) and drinking a beer filming friends then continuing. So having the motor situated like an outboard really allows you to have the motor / boat perform at its full potential.

Some guys are running polymer on the bottom of their hulls. TXSHOCKWAVE on here has done this and his boat slides on & off trailer / vegetation or mud like it was squirting baby oil out from underneath :rotfl:

Others put "frog spit" or other type product that's usually rolled on (best sprayed) problem is it doesn't hold up as well as polymer but you also don't have to go drilling holes. TXSHOCKWAVE successfully has his polymer epoxied to his hull and has yet (10 month of running) to have any come off or peel back AT ALL.

Its a 35HP B&S commercial lawnmower engine were running them at 4250 stock, they last for 4,000 hours at that RPM and you can upgrade the heck out of them, only requirement being you have to be able to turn a wrench.

One upgrade I am adding to mine is a remote oil cooler which will just extend the life of the motor only $40 and it will sit right in front of the fan on the front of the motor.

Maintenance wise I do a simple oil change and lower unit grease change every 15 hours. My next upgrade once I'm out of warranty will be a mikuni carb which should bump me up to 31-32 MPH carrying a full load of hunting gear at 28MPH as opposed to 24-25. This will help on long runs down ICW.


----------



## raz1056

I can see the the future already. The next time I am in the POC backlakes, I will see 10 boats stuck in the mud. They will say I seen railbird do it on 2Cool so easily I know my buggy can make it!


----------



## surfspeck

The only time Ive run in those back lakes has been in an airboat or a Majek 21' RFL with a TRP. There are real shallow spots you can run in that you wont want to stop in the RFL or you'll be calling an airboat to get you out.


----------



## railbird

OK time for the disclaimer. Don't try this at home boys. You might stick your buggy. If you get a wild idea to play the sliding game, make sure you put your trim tabs all the way down. It slides much better and it makes it much safer from shearing.

chuck


----------



## Jason Slocum

Wow great video's Railbird! If you ever need some crew let me know as I live in corpus. Jason Slocum


----------



## Miles2Fish

Railbird that is some sick boat control.....For any doubters out there I have a 23 Shoalwater Cat and have seen it float and get up in 6" of water....I know it will run in about 3-4" of water but have not yet tried the type of run like railbirds video...Still need more hours at the helm but so far I am incredibly impressed. Mostly with it's open bay performance in choppy waters. This boat will perform better at higher speeds when its sloppy. Anything below 36 mph and its a little rough as you go faster the ride gets smoother...57 mph in 2-3 foot chop in Port O'Connor the Friday before the first TRS was a ton of fun...


----------



## railbird

*down loading now*

I have some new videos from today. The tide held but the sun wasn't very good. Hold on to your hats. You aint seen nutin yet. This is beyond belief. will take about an hour. so here it comes.

chuck


----------



## fishin shallow

6 people patiently waiting. Lol


----------



## railbird

sorry guys took 30 min. to down load. It will be a while yet.

chuck


----------



## El Primero

Hurry up with the video Corky...


----------



## Bigdsduty

Geez!!!! This wait is killing me!


----------



## Bigdsduty

Chuck your killing us. What kind of compter are you running, a Commodore 64???


----------



## Miles2Fish

I have no doubt it will be worth the wait.....


----------



## fishin shallow

Dang Chuck you are going to make Majek's stocks go up with all these videos. There is like over 29k views:doowapsta


----------



## railbird

sorry i am 33% LOADED NOW WILL BE A FEW


----------



## railbird

OK here is the link..................... It will be loading and processing for a few minutes and the quality will improve over time enjoy.






chuck


----------



## railbird

railbird said:


> OK here is the link..................... It will be loading and processing for a few minutes and the quality will improve over time enjoy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> chuck


I added some music if you are easily offended turn down the volume. Just having a little fun.

chuck


----------



## railbird

It is showing on my personal channel now. It will be a few more minutes i guess.


----------



## bobbyoshay

holy chit! thats is awesome!


----------



## Bigdsduty

*BahBam!!!!*

I wonder what excuse we will hear now. Very impressive Chuck. Thanks for the persistence in getting the video for us.

Most importantly who sings that song? My wife loves it.


----------



## Bigdsduty

Song by Mickey Avalon????


----------



## fishin shallow

"This video is not yet processed" Dang youtube


----------



## twelfth man

*Wow...just wow*

Way to go Chuck! I'm totally LMAO in absolute awe!!!! No way would I have the marbles to get back there. My hat is off to your skills. And the music....CLASSIC!


----------



## railbird

Im wondering if I need to get "TOW BOATS USA" to sponsor me. lol Oh, please don't try this. If you do don't do it without my prop. lol


----------



## Bigdsduty

Uh, I need that prop. I'd like to place my order.



railbird said:


> Im wondering if I need to get "TOW BOATS USA" to sponsor me. lol Oh, please don't try this. If you do don't do it without my prop. lol


----------



## railbird

twelfth man said:


> Way to go Chuck! I'm totally LMAO in absolute awe!!!! No way would I have the marbles to get back there. My hat is off to your skills. And the music....CLASSIC!


Funny part is we didn't get the first pass. My nephew and I with my bad eyes didn't get the video camera right. I thought how am I going to go back through there without getting stuck. We videoed the next pass and said, what the heck lets do it again, there and back. I think I could have done it all night. The boat never even alarmed. I ran 15-20 psi water pressure the whole time. Don't ask me how.

chuck


----------



## fishin shallow

Why can't I see the vid???????? I am going redfishing tomorrow and need to go to bed. Help


----------



## lwgbully

I don't know what's more shocking.. The video or the thought process in selecting that song..


----------



## Bigdsduty

*Chuckster Special*

Chuckster Special comes with a 21" RFL, Honda 150 and a Chuck "Railbird" custom prop.

Coming soon to your local Majek dealer.

Now I'm not going to say that the Tran Cat went as far as you did, but it did go through everything in the first two pics.


----------



## Majekster

*Railbird you're nuts & I love it!*

....man o man, heck of a thread - great videos!

Did you own my boat at one point in time??? :biggrin:


----------



## railbird

Majekster said:


> ....man o man, heck of a thread - great videos!
> 
> Did you own my boat at one point in time??? :biggrin:


Nope I bought this hull in july. My old one, you could read a newspaper throught the hull before i sold it. I promised the majek boys I would be gentle with this one. lol


----------



## fishin shallow

Dang finally got it. Now I can sleep and dream of running skinny. I hope I don't do something stupid tomorrow:biggrin:. I will leave the video camera at home, I don't want anyone to see me pushing in nipple deep mud.


----------



## teamfirstcast

*You are on your own back in there!*

Awesome video Birdman!!! Don't waste a call on Towboat, you gonna need this if you ever stick it!


----------



## patwilson

*Dang!!!!!!!!!!!*

*That is bad.................................No other words!:cheers:*


----------



## railbird

*Appology*



Bigdsduty said:


> Chuckster Special comes with a 21" RFL, Honda 150 and a Chuck "Railbird" custom prop.
> 
> Coming soon to your local Majek dealer.
> 
> Now I'm not going to say that the Tran Cat went as far as you did, but it did go through everything in the first two pics.


It's my opinion, there are some boys who owe bigsduty and appology. I'm just sayin!!!

For those guys doubting this is possible. Where is my tape measure? 
chuck


----------



## WestEndAngler

Nice vid, dig the music too lol


----------



## Bigdsduty

railbird said:


> It's my opinion, there are some boys who owe bigsduty and appology. I'm just sayin!!!
> 
> For those guys doubting this is possible. Where is my tape measure?
> chuck


I need to edit my first post and add your videos up there.


----------



## raz1056

Well that is pretty close to what I thought we would see. Very impressive video! The music, well to each their own. I know you tried to make it different and you suceeded. Thanks for taking some time to do this. It will make all those who want to post a 6-8" skinny water video think about posting something else.


----------



## waterspout

coool air boat. LOL


damnit that is SKINNY like a MOFO! Awesome!


----------



## raz1056

Let's dub in "DANGER ZONE" for the music--Tom Cruise don't have those kind of cajones!!!


----------



## Bird_Dog

Railbird that was wicked. I am LMAO at the music as well!!!!


----------



## RAT DADDY

That is awesome Chuck I am going to start having my camera on me as well when I take the babycat out in some place like that and get some video. I am first in line for that prop you know that right . I want to see how my boat performs with it. Have fun this week at the Cabin I will see you saturday at the xtreme redfish tournament. I cant make the capt. meeting due to work. :cheers:


----------



## pmgoffjr

Ok, I'll admit I'm stumped. I see the video, but still don't believe it. I'd really like to see the setup, the prop, everything else, because if it's really done with an outboard on a tunnel hull, whatever you've got that will magically work without water, everyone who fishes the bay will want it. Any shots looking backwards?


----------



## oneneo3

Coe... me and the boy were over in Greens Lake Sunday when my son overshot a corner and couldn't control the slide... so instead, he straightened it out and hammered on it hoping to make it over... no we didn't make it. :rotfl:


----------



## Miles2Fish

Chuck the video is sweet! The music.....couldn't stop laughing!


----------



## RedAg

*Unreal*

Chuck, that video is sick. Again you have some sick driving skills:dance: and one slick ride.

You have a prop for a 23 Cat?


----------



## WestEndAngler

oneneo3 said:


> Coe... me and the boy were over in Greens Lake Sunday when my son overshot a corner and couldn't control the slide... so instead, he straightened it out and hammered on it hoping to make it over... no we didn't make it. :rotfl:


Ouch!

Yeah I've been there before, learning curves on the motor and flat bottom are sometimes tricky best thing to do in a situation like that is pull a 180 spin... at the very least you be pointed in the opposite direction and come to a quick stop. I find I have to back off throttle allow the stern to dip slightly so I can get more bite. I've put my rig up into reeds before off the Trinity just not paying attention and doing power slides etc. some nice guys stopped and tied a rope on to get me out. Being high centered & by yourself is not fun! That's one reason I run with a winch.


----------



## Blue Fury

Gotta love a Majek... sweet Vid


----------



## Te.jas.on

RedAg said:


> Cole, I had a hard time believing it would float in 6" as well until I did it. TBH, it might take 6.5 but it will do it. I think the boat being almost 9 ft wide is what helps it float so shallow. Let me know a weekend you are free and we can go for a spin around here, and maybe wet a line as well. As for a PIC, I have not thought to take one, but will be sure to take out the checkit stick on the next run.
> 
> Be free to ask Te.Jas.On or Miles2fish, as he thought no way until he experienced it for himself. To quote, Jason, I couldn't believe it until I went in it. This boat will float as shallow as my Beavertail, except I just can't pole it.
> 
> I can't wait to see what the new haynie cat will do as well. Should be a great boat. They look like twin sisters.
> 
> Trey


I will vouch for that Shoalwater. It's not my boat. I didn't put a dime into it, so I don't have that "I'm defending my purchase" mentality going on. And I am in no way affiliated with Shoalwater.

With that said, the 23' cat is S.I.C.K.

I honestly don't understand the mechanics of it or how it does what it does - especially with that big nasty 300 hanging off the back. I just did not think a cat would go where we went, float where we floated and get up in what we got up in, but it did.

Everybody knows a cat will eat chop like a fat kid eats pie - so I won't bother talking about the performance there, but this boat has some serious value in the skinny stuff. Amazed is the only word I have for it. I simply didn't believe the boat would perform the way it did shallow, and I told Trey he'd be fighting the same battle when he tried to tell people what it will do.

I'll go out with Trey and help him get vids of the boat doing some skinny-water acrobatics.

Railbird - I can make my Beavertail dance, put it around a hairpin turn, you name it. But now I realize I'm only a rookie compared to your skills at the helm. From someone who's ridden in the Slide-Mobile, aka the RFL - I've got a whole lot of respect and admiration for someone that can take your boat where you did. You get PROPS from me (pun 100% intended)! :rotfl:


----------



## Bottom Finder

Anyone think the same thing could be done in a 25' RFL with a 200?


----------



## raz1056

Loan it to Railbird and he'll tell ya what it will do. It's always alot more fun testing someone else's rig. he can put on a little Eagles music and "Take it to the Limit"


----------



## atcfisherman

Pretty amazing videos! I do have a couple of questions.

1) When running through that muddy stuff, how does the motor not over heat? I mean, it must have water flow to keep it cool.

2) Also, how often does the intake for the water get plugged up and then the motor over heats? It has to happen b/c I have done it before and noticed my pressure loss and no water flowing through the motor. So, instead of over heating the motor, I shut it down and had to use my trolling motor to get me out. Now that was a bout 10-12 inches of water, so running though that mud you must be getting clogged often and over heating. If not, how do you keep water flowing through the motor?

3) How much does it cost at the car wash on the way home to clean the back of the boat from all the mud spray? LOL Just kidding, but I bet you have a lot of mud spray on the back end of the boat and on the motor.


----------



## trout77471

WOW!!! awesome video...

the doubters are awful quiet...


----------



## trout77471

need your prop for my shallowsport..


----------



## atcfisherman

One more question. How often do you have to have your prop fixed from all the dings when hitting things like shell and logs? And, have you ever spun you prop to the point that you had to change it out in the marsh?


----------



## bigfishtx

I wish he would post a picture of that prop he has.......


----------



## pmgoffjr

I've got a 12' scooter with low water pickups, cleaver prop, and will run in next to nothing, but when I run out of water in the tunnel, that's it boys, we're shutting down. I watched the video, I see what happened, but I'd REALLY like to see a shot of the boat that did it.


----------



## raz1056

atcfisherman said:


> Pretty amazing videos! I do have a couple of questions.
> 
> 1) When running through that muddy stuff, how does the motor not over heat? I mean, it must have water flow to keep it cool.
> 
> 2) Also, how often does the intake for the water get plugged up and then the motor over heats? It has to happen b/c I have done it before and noticed my pressure loss and no water flowing through the motor. So, instead of over heating the motor, I shut it down and had to use my trolling motor to get me out. Now that was a bout 10-12 inches of water, so running though that mud you must be getting clogged often and over heating. If not, how do you keep water flowing through the motor?
> 
> 3) How much does it cost at the car wash on the way home to clean the back of the boat from all the mud spray? LOL Just kidding, but I bet you have a lot of mud spray on the back end of the boat and on the motor.


If you read Railbird's earlier posts he said the trick is not to blow out your tunnel and water is actually being squeezed out into the tunnel keeping the engine cool. He slows down his speed, you would think you need to speed up, when going through and it gives the mud time to squeeze the water up into the tunnel. He is a master at controlling the RFL slide, I ran an 18 RFL through some hard turns and about a month later bought a 21 loaded it down and the first hard turn looked like turn 2 at daytona was covered in oil. I didn't have a clue to how much more slide the 21 had over the 18, and of couse we had alot more load. I can also see where the TRP might not be to your advantage in this kind of running with the position of the water inlet in front of the gearcase.


----------



## El Primero

I think Railbird signed off to the lower laguna the next several days. Real quick on the water pump though. He will testify again and again at the performance of the water pump in the Honda motor. Even in that muck he maintains 15-20 lbs of pressure. That thing pulls water like nobody's business. If there is a sudden temp change (so many degrees in so many seconds; he touches on it earlier in the thread) and it alarms, he calmly turns it off then back on to reset it. He or someone else with a Honda may give you better info. I'm simply regurgitating what I've heard from him 1 or 1,000,000 x's.


----------



## atcfisherman

Sorry, I must have missed the sections where he and others talked about the water pump and tunnel compression. It still amazes me that the water pump lines don't get clogged up. Actually what really amazes me is how the water is sucked out of the mud and compressed in the tunnel. Some of those videos he is running over wet mud only, so I guess the water is being extracted out of the mud via the compression of the tunnel. Anyway, I don't need to run that skinny, but it is amazing that some do. I guess I will stick with my shallow water of 10-12 inches. LOL


----------



## El Primero

Chuck's Honda has been through hell and back without missing a beat, even when running the laguna during the summer through thick matted grass in 4" of water that thing somehow continues to pump water. I'm impressed with the application of the 150 honda on that 21' RFL no doubt. I'd like some of the guys that run Yammy 150's with trp's to chime in on running water like that and if you have any overheat issues.


----------



## idlethru

been away from a PC for a week or so....***! Chuck, that was just sick! My bud has an RFL, and I thougt we ran the hell out of that boat...not even close. I have seen your prop up close...very impressive. 

also saw you broke down in the Land Cut before TRS....you back on the saddle?


----------



## rsparker67

*FWI*

Railbird is gone till at least Saturday night. He's gone to the cabin and i'm about 10 mins away from headed there myself... (i sure do hope his head can fit thru the door down there lol.)


----------



## Nocturnal

trout77471 said:


> the doubters are awful quiet...


Watching an expert pilot the shallowest running boat on the market through some of the softest mud you will find still does not convince me that a Trancat ran over what appears to be a fairly solid mud bank.


----------



## Nocturnal

Railbird is gonna get a lot of people stuck...


----------



## LBS

I've been watchin this thread to see railbird's skills, and I will say that he does have skills, and his boat will run it, but ol boy in the trancat just needs to go on admit that he went 50 across that mud and got stuck where he took the pic.


----------



## aggiefishinDr

Bingo LBS!! My thoughts exactly!


----------



## t-tung

that's just nuts. A little off topic here but this is guy has had a completely opposite experience with his Honda than the poor guy with the 200 horse Honda on his SCB that kept snapping shafts. 

Anyways, more power to ya. And to the naysayers, show me a mudbuddy or gatortail that can push that size boat. I'm not aware of one.


----------



## gstanford85

railbird said:


> OK here is the link..................... It will be loading and processing for a few minutes and the quality will improve over time enjoy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> chuck


Do you think my Explorer 190-tv could do that? j/k I already know the answer


----------



## RAT DADDY

There yall go again thinking there is no way that a Transcat made it across that. Like I said before it will do it been there myself a few times. I am going to be carrying a video camera with me for now on. So next time I have to jump across mud like in the pics I will film it for yall haters. By the way a 21 transcat with a 150 trp on it will not run 50mph.


----------



## LaAngler

railbird said:


> OK here is the link..................... It will be loading and processing for a few minutes and the quality will improve over time enjoy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> chuck


unreal, can you post a few pictures of your boat?

how does the engine not overheat?


----------



## LBS

*Maybe you need more pitch*



RAT DADDY said:


> There yall go again thinking there is no way that a Transcat made it across that. Like I said before it will do it been there myself a few times. I am going to be carrying a video camera with me for now on. So next time I have to jump across mud like in the pics I will film it for yall haters. By the way a 21 transcat with a 150 trp on it will not run 50mph.


good friend of mine had a 21 trancat, the old skool model, with a 150 trp, clocked 50 on it several times and it was beat ta s**t.


----------



## RAT DADDY

thats surprising the 21 that I have been on has a 225 yamaha without trp and he gets around 55mph top speed. That pretty amazing that it hits 50 with the 150 TRP interesting its also one of the older 21 transcats.


----------



## fishnfool

I had a 21 TranCat with Pro XS 250. It would run 57-58 any day and went as fast as 63 in perfect conditions. I also crossed dirt with it more than once. I have no doubt the TC would do it, I did it. HOWEVER, you better get to some water quick because if the motor overheats, you are in trouble. The TransCat would not get up where the RFL would (I had a RFL with TRP for a short time too).

My boat now won't run as skinny as the TC (I've not tried but am sure it won't) and won't float as skinny either but will get up probably shallower that my TC would.

The RFL is unmatched in shallow water abilities across the board for sure, but there are many boats that will run through some ridiculous stuff you would never think was possible.

I'll take being able to across inches of water rather than mud but running 80 and riding beter than most v-bottoms....


----------



## aggiefishinDr

I fish on a buddies new school 21 trancat with a zuke 175 and it will hit 50 WOT light load, cruises nicely at 45 though. 

Also, just curious what was the guy standing on when he took that pick?
I am not doubting that it wasnt done, just saying that i am a little skeptical. Much more believable after seeing these videos (amazing)!!


----------



## atcfisherman

Even though I saw the videos of the RFL running in that mud/water, I know there are other boats that can do it then. A boatwright boat should be able to do that with no problem. The RFL is basically a flat bottom with a tunnel.


----------



## WestEndAngler

atcfisherman said:


> Even though I saw the videos of the RFL running in that mud/water, I know there are other boats that can do it then. A boatwright boat should be able to do that with no problem. The RFL is basically a flat bottom with a tunnel.


Boatright can get shallow they make some great skiffs and a buddy of mine works the shop over there and can build whatever you want. I've fished two tournaments on their boats in West Bay and love them its a perfect little skiff.

:work: Mud / Water is easier to run in than Sand / Water :work:

There's been days in Trinity when we've run an old shoalwater straight up over mud banks and into shallow ditches trying to reach the hunting spot. By the time we were done hunting we made it out but were unable to make it across the sand bar that we had to cross to get to the ramp... the water dropped 6" across the flat. Had to tie up boats and call Airboat for pickup :rotfl:

Another big bonus to have the MM is that you can easily lift it over obstacles (LOGS / TREES) I think an outboard would get hung up to easy... in a perfect world I'd have like 15 boats all for different purposes :cheers:


----------



## atcfisherman

WestEndAngler said:


> Boatright can get shallow they make some great skiffs and a buddy of mine works the shop over there and can build whatever you want. I've fished two tournaments on their boats in West Bay and love them its a perfect little skiff.
> 
> :work: Mud / Water is easier to run in than Sand / Water :work:
> 
> There's been days in Trinity when we've run an old shoalwater straight up over mud banks and into shallow ditches trying to reach the hunting spot. By the time we were done hunting we made it out but were unable to make it across the sand bar that we had to cross to get to the ramp... the water dropped 6" across the flat. Had to tie up boats and call Airboat for pickup :rotfl:
> 
> Another big bonus to have the MM is that you can easily lift it over obstacles (LOGS / TREES) I think an outboard would get hung up to easy... in a perfect world I'd have like 15 boats all for different purposes :cheers:


*WHAT???? You mean there is not one boat that can do it all? I thought I had the perfect boat. LOL* :rotfl:


----------



## hardcore

i'm sure if u get enough momentum and speed i'm sure u can power ur way accross a small strip of mud easily, if the engine was aircooled u can probly run forever and just hyroplane across wet bottom..just dont stop


----------



## Pasquale06

*SWEET!!!*

I mean, who needs an airboat when you got a Majek??? That was awsome!!!


----------



## txshockwave

All I want to know is what happens when you stop in that stuff. Can you get going again?

I can start and stop and in pure mud so I already know my boat runs shallower. :rotfl:

http://s135.photobucket.com/albums/q123/txshockwave/?action=view&current=100_0498.flv

http://s135.photobucket.com/albums/q123/txshockwave/?action=view&current=100_0210.flv










its amazing what a flat bottom tunnel hull will do huh.

http://s135.photobucket.com/albums/q123/txshockwave/?action=view&current=AllPictures174-1.flv


----------



## sweenyite

I need one of those props...I have an unnatural ability to locate sand bars.


----------



## atcfisherman

txshockwave said:


> All I want to know is what happens when you stop in that stuff. Can you get going again?
> 
> I can start and stop and in pure mud so I already know my boat runs shallower. :rotfl:


Absolutely!!! No outboard can run skinner than a mud motor. Nice videos and nice set up!!!


----------



## Redfishr

Awesome video's everyone........WOW


----------



## railbird

*I'm Back!!!!!*

For those wanting to see my rig and setup, here is a pick from earlier videos. The prop is not ready for pic's yet, I am currently running an aluminum design, It has 50hrs on it. I need to get in and measure the wear, it doesn't look like much tho.





Here is a repost of the latest video from tuesday.






chuck


----------



## RedXCross

Wow Chuck, 

UGH, hmm, far flippin' out, I thought I have ran skinny in my 21' Flats Cat, I stand corrected? Lets just say if ya get stuck, you will be stuck like Chuck LOL..

Solid performance


----------



## railbird

I will try to answer all the questions since i posted video, I've been fishing. I have to go to the captains meeting tonight and will sit down and answer all the pm's and questions posted here about my rig. Thanks for everything guys, this has been a blast.
chuck


----------



## oneneo3

I'm going to throw in. I can't let TXS and WestEnd have all the fun. I know this aint mud but, lets see an outboard do this!






BTW... Railbird, its amazing what your doing with that boat. Stuff I didn't think possible with an outboard. Very cool though!! Cool videos.


----------



## railbird

oneneo3 said:


> I'm going to throw in. I can't let TXS and WestEnd have all the fun. I know this aint mud but, lets see an outboard do this!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW... Railbird, its amazing what your doing with that boat. Stuff I didn't think possible with an outboard. Very cool though!! Cool videos.


Promise me an airboat towout and I would follow you thru any of that, and bet money my boat could do it. All that vegitation looks attached, so water intakes would be fine. No doubt there is enough water there.

chuck


----------



## rat race

I have no doubt that a baby cat, or any of the small scooter type boats could do that but the coolest thing about Railbird's ride is it is a freeking 21' boat with a heavy ace 4 stroker on it. Man that is way cool. 

Got to say RB has some stones.

RR


----------



## ATE_UP_FISHERMAN

My 19' Flatscat will run in 4" hard sand bottom with two grown men, full of fuel +200 lbs of gear. Did that last weeked and didn't have a Video camera.


----------



## Blue Fury

ATE_UP_FISHERMAN said:


> My 19' Flatscat will run in 4" hard sand bottom with two grown men, full of fuel +200 lbs of gear. Did that last weeked and didn't have a Video camera.


You say that like it has never been done before... its a cake walk in the Majek..


----------



## Fishin Fast

Well if they are haulin butt up into the mud they will take some water with them like a skim board. That might of helped.


----------



## ATE_UP_FISHERMAN

Blue Fury said:


> You say that like it has never been done before... its a cake walk in the Majek..


Not trying to start anything but I know what the Majek will do very well.. See how shallow we are running in the pic.. 
Just saying what I did last weekend in hard sand in my Flatscat. Hard sand is a lot different than soft mud. I've been in some great boats and there are a lot of great hulls out there just saying that the 18' 6" Flatscat is very impressive so I wanted to make mention.

http://www.flatscat.com/performance2b.htm

http://www.flatscat.com/performance1b.htm


----------



## DerekTX

rat race said:


> I have no doubt that a baby cat, or any of the small scooter type boats could do that but the coolest thing about Railbird's ride is it is a freeking 21' boat with a heavy ace 4 stroker on it. Man that is way cool.
> 
> Got to say RB has some stones.
> 
> RR


no he's just a stubborn ol' fart. :wink:


----------



## railbird

ATE_UP_FISHERMAN said:


> Not trying to start anything but I know what the Majek will do very well.. See how shallow we are running in the pic..
> Just saying what I did last weekend in hard sand in my Flatscat. Hard sand is a lot different than soft mud. I've been in some great boats and there are a lot of great hulls out there just saying that the 18' 6" Flatscat is very impressive so I wanted to make mention.
> 
> http://www.flatscat.com/performance2b.htm
> 
> http://www.flatscat.com/performance1b.htm


LOL, you'll accept a drawing by salesman, but you won't accept a video by a fisherman as proof of a boats ability. I can draw an animated picture of my rfl flying 3' above the water, like a magic carpet. Will that convince you?

You doubters kill me.

chuck


----------



## atcfisherman

railbird said:


> LOL, you'll accept a drawing by salesman, but you won't accept a video by a fisherman as proof of a boats ability. I can draw an animated picture of my rfl flying 3' above the water, like a magic carpet. Will that convince you?
> 
> You doubters kill me.
> 
> chuck


ROFL.... But is that magic carpet a real one from the middle east? LOL Just kidding. You made a believer out of me. I saw the stuff you were going through and to me I would have said only mud motors and air boats could have done that. I have no problems admitting when I was wrong.


----------



## DerekTX

railbird said:


> LOL, you'll accept a drawing by salesman, but you won't accept a video by a fisherman as proof of a boats ability. I can draw an animated picture of my rfl flying 3' above the water, like a magic carpet. Will that convince you?
> 
> You doubters kill me.
> 
> chuck


thanks for the bailout today. we were all freezing.


----------



## Capt.Troy

Just awesome video. I was down in Matagorda tonight and actually had to take a boat across the river to pull a twin engine mud drive out of the mud. It sure was cold too. I guess they didn't read this thread.


----------



## railbird

DerekTX said:


> thanks for the bailout today. we were all freezing.


Anytime aggie boy! See you in a few. That wind was a killer huh.


----------



## railbird

pmgoffjr said:


> Ok, I'll admit I'm stumped. I see the video, but still don't believe it. I'd really like to see the setup, the prop, everything else, because if it's really done with an outboard on a tunnel hull, whatever you've got that will magically work without water, everyone who fishes the bay will want it. Any shots looking backwards?


This video shows a shot out the back.






This shows a side view of my buggy.






All the same boat of course. Do you think someone would loan me a boat after seeing the places i go?

chuck


----------



## railbird

atcfisherman said:


> Pretty amazing videos! I do have a couple of questions.
> 
> 1) When running through that muddy stuff, how does the motor not over heat? I mean, it must have water flow to keep it cool.
> 
> *Answer. When running thu anything i think could give the water intakes trouble, i start with the skeg and prop completely above the bottom of the hull. I run on what the tunnel delivers. If i start to lose water psi, i just lower the motor until the pressure returns.*
> 
> 2) Also, how often does the intake for the water get plugged up and then the motor over heats? It has to happen b/c I have done it before and noticed my pressure loss and no water flowing through the motor. So, instead of over heating the motor, I shut it down and had to use my trolling motor to get me out. Now that was a bout 10-12 inches of water, so running though that mud you must be getting clogged often and over heating. If not, how do you keep water flowing through the motor?
> 
> *Answer. My honda almost never plugs because the intakes are fairly high on the gearcase. If I'm in grass I wash the steering whell back and forth if grass gets over the intakes letting the water hit the sides of the gearcase. If its supper grassy, I wash it back and forth almost constrantly. In mud that is not necessary. I have to say, I am not sure the trp with the intakes on the nosecone would have a problem getting thu where i went thru because of clogging. I know the trp has troubles in areas that have lots of clay because of plugging up.*
> 
> 3) How much does it cost at the car wash on the way home to clean the back of the boat from all the mud spray? LOL Just kidding, but I bet you have a lot of mud spray on the back end of the boat and on the motor.


*The last video took $5 at the car wash just to get the mud off. lol*

One more question. How often do you have to have your prop fixed from all the dings when hitting things like shell and logs? And, have you ever spun you prop to the point that you had to change it out in the marsh?

*Haven't hit anything hard lately, I've been running an aluminum prop for 50+ hours and it has some dings on the leading edge, I need to dress it up again. It is lasting way longer than my stainless prop because the boat gets on plane so much better now with the new design.*
chuck


----------



## railbird

t-tung said:


> that's just nuts. A little off topic here but this is guy has had a completely opposite experience with his Honda than the poor guy with the 200 horse Honda on his SCB that kept snapping shafts.
> 
> Anyways, more power to ya. And to the naysayers, show me a mudbuddy or gatortail that can push that size boat. I'm not aware of one.


The boy in the scb bought the motor and had eric put it on there because of what my honda would do. His screen name is (whittle) he and i grew up together and are like brothers. I thought it would be an awesome application because of the fuel economy and the water delivery system of the honda I own, I was wrong. The problems he had were with radial fracturing from the center of the prop being above the line of the hull. This is the way i understand his issues with the prop above the hull pressure is only below center of the prop shaft causing a small amount of flex upward on the shaft. As the shaft spins, it is being bent upward but radially in all directions. The flexing is like taking a coat hanger and bending it back and forth continually until it breaks. If you haven't done this try it just bend it 180 degrees and work it back and forth and feel how much heat is produced. It will be obvious how a shaft can break.
The honda 225 is not a racing motor and has never been built to race. With the scb hull design, a bigger prop shaft is needed, as most racing motors have.

Whittle still has his boat for sale, he put a brand new mercury racing 300xs on the back, it has 30hrs on the motor and about 100 hrs on the boat. He is asking in the low 40's for it. He will make someone a heck of a deal on it. He has decided to go to an Majek for some reason lol.

chuck


----------



## railbird

sweenyite said:


> I need one of those props...I have an unnatural ability to locate sand bars.


I have to say again, I hope you guys don't test your boat over sand. 
Here we go:

*NEVER EVEREVEREVER, EVER!!!!!!!!!! PUSH YOUR LUCK OVER WHITE HARD SAND.*

I have done it and its no fun. The boat will stop fast and can hurt you very bad. I have heard of people getting thrown from their boats on hard sand.

chuck


----------



## WestEndAngler

I've been tossed from driver seat to the floor a few times on my rig. Always wear your kill switch!


----------



## railbird

Video remake with music by zz top "Lagrange". Not sure if music will be approved by youtube tho. I made a more family friendly video for your enjoyment. I am planning on making my other video private later today.


----------



## Nocturnal

ATE_UP_FISHERMAN said:


> Not trying to start anything but I know what the Majek will do very well.. See how shallow we are running in the pic..
> Just saying what I did last weekend in hard sand in my Flatscat. Hard sand is a lot different than soft mud. I've been in some great boats and there are a lot of great hulls out there just saying that the 18' 6" Flatscat is very impressive so I wanted to make mention.
> 
> http://www.flatscat.com/performance2b.htm
> 
> http://www.flatscat.com/performance1b.htm


They claim a 4.5" draft for the 21' Flat's Cat.

I don't see how that's possible given that a 21' RFL which drafts an honest 7" is 200lbs lighter and has a larger footprint.

I'm guessing that claim is without the motor or something...


----------



## TKoenig

thats an easy answer, have you ever seen some flats cats that have been run in the rough stuff... stress cracks everywhere in the tunnel, they are light layups... 

now a majek is a heavier layup and can stand a beating plus being slid over an occasional oyster reef... the proof lays on the bottom of majeksters boat, any other boat would have holes punched in the bottom. 

but all i all i still very much doubt a flatscat can even draft an honest 6" much less 4.5"


----------



## ATE_UP_FISHERMAN

Nocturnal said:


> They claim a 4.5" draft for the 21' Flat's Cat.
> 
> I don't see how that's possible given that a 21' RFL which drafts an honest 7" is 200lbs lighter and has a larger footprint.
> 
> I'm guessing that claim is without the motor or something...


I don't know about the exact draft on the 21' but the 18'6" full load like I was saying with two men, full of fuel, 3 batteries, two ice chests full of ice, trolling motor, 4-stroke yamaha, Wading gear and all of our extra junk, will draft less than 8". Because of the tunnel on the 18'6" Flatscat the 18 RFL leaves a little better foot print I say little because the Flatscat is also wider than the RFL. Because of the large footprint the 21' RFL with a TRP will get up in almost anything they will also rattle the fillings out of your teeth. Those are truly some awesome videos railbird. It's nice to know you can do it if you have too.


----------



## Nocturnal

TKoenig said:


> thats an easy answer, have you ever seen some flats cats that have been run in the rough stuff... stress cracks everywhere in the tunnel, they are light layups...
> 
> now a majek is a heavier layup and can stand a beating plus being slid over an occasional oyster reef... the proof lays on the bottom of majeksters boat, any other boat would have holes punched in the bottom.
> 
> but all i all i still very much doubt a flatscat can even draft an honest 6" much less 4.5"


According to their websites-

21' RFL- 1150lbs, 94" beam

21' FC- 1350lbs, 90" beam

I know the Majek is a very well made boat... I suspect the weight savings would be due in part to the flat bottomed Majek having less aggregate hull area than the cat-hull of the FC.


----------



## Nocturnal

ATE_UP_FISHERMAN said:


> I don't know about the exact draft on the 21' but the 18'6" full load like I was saying with two men, full of fuel, 3 batteries, two ice chests full of ice, trolling motor, 4-stroke yamaha, Wading gear and all of our extra junk, will draft less than 8". Because of the tunnel on the 18'6" Flatscat the 18 RFL leaves a little better foot print I say little because the Flatscat is also wider than the RFL. Because of the large footprint the 21' RFL with a TRP will get up in almost anything they will also rattle the fillings out of your teeth. Those are truly some awesome videos railbird. It's nice to know you can do it if you have too.


According to the websites, the RFL is slightly wider.

I don't doubt a 7"-8" draft. I do doubt a 4.5", unless they are basing it on a bare hull.

I'm very familiar with the harsh RFL ride. I fished off of a partner's 21' RFL for many years.


----------



## pmgoffjr

Ok, I believe your latest video. 
You've got something going on special, because it ain't the hull, RFL's blow out and sucks down just as easy as anything else. 
Can I see that prop you're running sometime?


----------



## ATE_UP_FISHERMAN

Nocturnal said:


> According to the websites, the RFL is slightly wider.
> 
> I don't doubt a 7"-8" draft. I do doubt a 4.5", unless they are basing it on a bare hull.
> 
> I'm very familiar with the harsh RFL ride. I fished off of a partner's 21' RFL for many years.


 
The 18'6" FC is wider than the 18RFL when you jump up to the 21 the RFL is wider than the 21FC.


----------



## Blue02

Sweet videos railbird! I'll try to follow you back there next time with my bluewave.


----------



## railbird

pmgoffjr said:


> Ok, I believe your latest video.
> You've got something going on special, because it ain't the hull, RFL's blow out and sucks down just as easy as anything else.
> Can I see that prop you're running sometime?


The rfl will run shallower than any boat, the hull/tunnel is the most efficient in industry. The tunnel doesn't blow out unless you panic and blow it out.

chuck


----------



## Slimshady

I love how these threads all end up about "My Boat" will float in "X" or runs in "Y".


----------



## Majekster

*Lampoon's Style*

...just grease up the bottom of that Flats Cat & it'll perform the same as Railbirds RFL......_maybe _:biggrin:


----------



## atcfisherman

Slimshady said:


> I love how these threads all end up about "My Boat" will float in "X" or runs in "Y".


Yep!!! It's like when I was in Jr High many many years ago.

BILLY: "My dad's truck is taller than your dad's truck!"
FRANK: "No it isn't! M dad's truck it taller. I will prove it with a photo."
BILLY: "Well, I don't believe your photo is correct. You photoshopped it."
FRANK: "Well, maybe I did, but it is still taller."

LOL - all of this is subjective. Some say their boats are the skinniest running boats on the market. Some say their is and then some say theirs is the driest. THE TRUTH IS WHAT YOU MAKE IT WITH BOATS!


----------



## ROOSTER REDCHASER

hummmmmm......."I'll be your Huckleberry".


----------



## pmgoffjr

railbird said:


> The rfl will run shallower than any boat, the hull/tunnel is the most efficient in industry. The tunnel doesn't blow out unless you panic and blow it out.
> 
> chuck


Well..that very well might be true, but if it is, then mr. Majek should give driving lessons. Had a big tuna schooner RFL blow out and set down trying to follow us into Pringle on Friday. And it wasn't nearly as rank as the stuff in your video.


----------



## txshockwave

looks like i found a reply to railbirds vid.:cheers:


----------



## hardcore

everyone get ur boat and lets play follow the leader...ok chuck lead the way

i'm gonna setup a group discount for towing.....


----------



## WestEndAngler

I'm game... where are we meeting


----------



## hardcore

oh yeah found this in the archives ....till this day still very entertaining

http://2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/showpost.php?p=162880&postcount=17

http://2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/showthread.php?t=20384


----------



## JohnHumbert

*Amen!*



railbird said:


> The rfl will run shallower than any boat, the hull/tunnel is the most efficient in industry. The tunnel doesn't blow out unless you panic and blow it out.
> 
> chuck


Amen! But only those who've experienced it will believe it.

I ran a 18' RFL for 15 years and there is no comparison to the 21' RFL for running skinny. Period.

I have a 21' RFL with a TRP for the past 5 years and it never ceases to amaze me on shallow it will run and get up.

Johnny Majek once told me "It'll run on a heavy dew"...I thought he was speaking in metaphors. Now I know different.


----------



## patwilson

*Old post*

Speaking of old post, check this out...:biggrin:

http://2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/showthread.php?t=173276&highlight=Majek+Illusion+stuck&page=2



hardcore said:


> oh yeah found this in the archives ....till this day still very entertaining
> 
> http://2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/showpost.php?p=162880&postcount=17
> 
> http://2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/showthread.php?t=20384


----------



## railbird

Alright, If we are going there, I will see if i can dig out some screwup pictures. Will have to wait till i get home from work tho.

chuck


----------



## robul

let me know if you wanna test out that prop on a dargel scooter with a 110 v4.  I'll even let ya drive.


----------



## railbird

*Here's a screwup!*

I hit this spot at about 25mph thinking it would be soft mud. It is about 80 yds across, I made it halfway across. The chines barely scratched the surface. I left a skeg trail and a small trail were the chines drug. As you can see it had been dry for 3-4 days. Lucky for me the tide came in within 20 minutes and we pushed it out in about 2 hrs of work. Funny part is I had been 20 minutes later, I would have slid right across. The first is before the tide, the second is 2 hrs later after we walked the boat out. 2 guys walking the bow back and forth works wonders.


----------



## rsparker67

lol Chuck, when did you pull (or really push) this off?


----------



## patwilson

Dang!!!!!!


----------



## SEAHUNT186

I've done that in my Seahunt 186 triton at night by myself. Of course, my boat wasn't sitting pretty like yall's flat bottom boats. Deep V's kinda sit at an angle. LOL.. Especially fun with I got towed off for $750. Good thing insurance reimbursed $500 of that. Barges were driving by and shining their spot lights on me as I was trying to sleep waiting for the tow boat. LONG NIGHT.....
Steve


----------



## Blue Fury

ALMOST had a picture of railbirds prop in the first pic...haha


----------



## railbird

Blue Fury said:


> ALMOST had a picture of railbirds prop in the first pic...haha


LOL, I made sure I cropped it out. I figured you boys would try to sneek a peek.


----------



## El Primero

For the right $$PRICE$$ I'll get those whom are interested a picture of the prop!


----------



## TexasFlats

El Primero said:


> For the right $$PRICE$$ I'll get those whom are interested a picture of the prop!


Hopefully a better picture than your avatar...

.


----------



## El Primero

Ya the picture stinks but boy it was a big red that I had sight casted. I think Railbird would string me up.


----------



## WestEndAngler

Here's what happened on Sunday... I was unable to go b/c some lowlifes stole my rims & tires at least they left my truck & boat unharmed. PITA on a Sunday to get 4 new rims & tires!


----------



## DerekTX

wow chuck.


----------



## Whittle

WestEndAngler said:


> Here's what happened on Sunday... I was unable to go b/c some lowlifes stole my rims & tires at least they left my truck & boat unharmed. PITA on a Sunday to get 4 new rims & tires!


Thanks, after watching that I'll fess up to taking the pic of the Baffin Bay Monster after running aground. Next it was one hell of a workout pushing it free. I have a video running and the pics posted that I was going to use for B Mail, good job railbird, guess I need new amo.:cheers: No Beer on Board! Just Railbird behind the wheel.


----------



## Scoootr

good job on tearing up the resource. you should have more respect.


----------



## TexasFlats

Scoootr said:


> good job on tearing up the resource. you should have more respect.


I didn't know pudding was a resource.

You should have more respect... for the 2cool fishing board and it's subscribers - newb.


----------



## KamoAggie

Great Videos railbird!


----------



## rsparker67

Scoootr said:


> good job on tearing up the resource. you should have more respect.


what resource you talking about??? Seagrass?? dont see any in any video... Mud??? ok he's guilty... lol 
learn why to run a boat and where your gonna run it and the resource will never be damaged mr. peta.


----------



## rbank

TexasFlats said:


> I didn't know pudding was a resource.
> 
> You should have more respect... for the 2cool fishing board and it's subscribers - newb.


Is that really pudding he is tearing up ? You and railbird are both idiots.


----------



## TexasFlats

rbank said:


> Is that really pudding he is tearing up ? You and railbird are both idiots.


I'm comfortable with the company I keep - who are you hanging out with?

Another newb - gfys.

.


----------



## Cody C

rbank said:


> Is that really pudding he is tearing up ? You and railbird are both idiots.


Burn handle.... have you not noticed that once the tide comes up, it removes any trace that they were ever there... Its not like they are tearing up the sea grasses, its mud you dang troll...


----------



## gater

*Railbird*

I would never own a Majek so I don't have to worry but I do hope you share that video with the buyer when you go to sell your boat. And, no there may not be sea grass there but there is life, or there was before you got there. Sorry, but I can't say I'm really impressed! Gater


----------



## railbird

gater said:


> I would never own a Majek so I don't have to worry but I do hope you share that video with the buyer when you go to sell your boat. And, no there may not be sea grass there but there is life, or there was before you got there. Sorry, but I can't say I'm really impressed! Gater


Ever drove down a dirt road, or in a pasture? There was prolly life there too. I would bet there is something even growing in your shoes, but you still walk in them every day. As to never owning a majek, well to each his own. Finally, I only feel validation when I've impressed intelligent people.

chuck


----------



## TKoenig

they just jealous that they get stuck when trying to breech the ft mark much less 0-3 inches... oh and watch out for those mud worms, they have feelings too... jeez, if some people didnt have anything to b!itch about they would prolly just die...


----------



## gater

*TKoenig*

I can give a rat's *** about running a foot of water and if you and Railbird think your not hurting anything your both not very bright. Gater


----------



## TexasFlats

gater said:


> I can give a rat's *** about running a foot of water and if you and Railbird think your not hurting anything your both not very bright. Gater


Gater - please see below: couldn't have said it better myself.



railbird said:


> Ever drove down a dirt road, or in a pasture? There was prolly life there too. I would bet there is something even growing in your shoes, but you still walk in them every day. As to never owning a majek, well to each his own. Finally, I only feel validation when I've impressed intelligent people.


Fact is, if you use your boat, or your car, or your weedeater - you are hurting something. Our very existence depends on the death of multitudes of other forms of life. Your high-n-mighty condemnation of the actions of someone who doesn't conform to your standards smacks of the liberal/progressive plague that is gripping our country right now.

Get along now - go find another thread that sends a thrill up your leg.

TexasFlats

.


----------



## Fishin Fast

gater said:


> I can give a rat's *** about running a foot of water and if you and Railbird think your not hurting anything your both not very bright. Gater


Another brainwashed hippie. :headknock


----------



## Nocturnal

gater said:


> I can give a rat's *** about running a foot of water and if you and Railbird think your not hurting anything your both not very bright. Gater


Why don't you enlighten us as to what is being hurt?


----------



## TKoenig

theres bacteria and microorganisms that live in the mud, oh wait theres the same thing living on our bodies, yet you kill them daily with soap in the shower... Murderer!


----------



## WestEndAngler

Shrimp & bait fish are a few of my casualties






Where I ride the tide returns and tracks disappear






Yes I can stop & back up in mud  




Wallisville, TX


----------



## gater

*Nocturnal*



Nocturnal said:


> Why don't you enlighten us as to what is being hurt?


If your that stupid you shouldn't be fishing or running a boat!


----------



## bobbyoshay

gater said:


> If your that stupid you shouldn't be fishing or running a boat!


Darn....i thought when i went out in my yak that i wasnt doing any harm to the environment! Guess when i get too shallow and leave marks with my rudder and paddle that im a cold blooded killer too! I dont know if ill be able to sleep tonight! :frown:


----------



## ESCB Factory

Lets not mention the farmers pulling those HUGE plows..oh my, the carnage!:rotfl:


----------



## patwilson

Eric that is some funny #%$&#@^[email protected]&it!



scb factory said:


> Lets not mention the farmers pulling those HUGE plows..oh my, the carnage!:rotfl:


----------



## railbird

gater said:


> If your that stupid you shouldn't be fishing or running a boat!


I see you live on tiki island, how many birds did you displace when you built on that island? How many birds could nest there if we tore your house down? How many parts of your house are on the bottom of the bay from IKE? How often do you fertilize your yard a year? You know the runnoff from fertilizer is killing our bay systems. Ever use herbisides? Did you know living that close to the water you are likely poluting the **** out of it. I would suggest you move way inland so you can respect the resource a little better. Oh and by the way, are you running a 2stroke? I bet you are, how dare you come in here and get all high and mighty with me while you are putting 1/2 a gallon of oil in the water every time you burn a tank of gas. OHHHHH the HUMANITY!!!!

Dumb ole chuck


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## railbird

scb factory said:


> Lets not mention the farmers pulling those HUGE plows..oh my, the carnage!:rotfl:


Gettem eric, i bet that boy eats beef and vegies too.


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## railbird

*That didn't take long. lol*



railbird said:


> I see you live on tiki island, how many birds did you displace when you built on that island? How many birds could nest there if we tore your house down? How many parts of your house are on the bottom of the bay from IKE? How often do you fertilize your yard a year? You know the runnoff from fertilizer is killing our bay systems. Ever use herbisides? Did you know living that close to the water you are likely poluting the **** out of it. I would suggest you move way inland so you can respect the resource a little better. Oh and by the way, are you running a 2stroke? I bet you are, how dare you come in here and get all high and mighty with me while you are putting 1/2 a gallon of oil in the water every time you burn a tank of gas. OHHHHH the HUMANITY!!!!
> 
> Dumb ole chuck


Gator, your not only running a 2 stroke you are running the cheapest most poluting oil you can find. Heres the quote:

"You are correct, it is Federal Law and has been for some time. This is why I have run Walmart brand SuperTech oil for the past 6 years.* I pay around $10.00 per gallon and have run it in my Yamaha since it was brand new. My Yamaha has never seen Yamalube and never will. Gater* "

Wow, very interesting. Now what do you have to say for yourself? lol

chuck


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## gater

*Railbird*

Thats some pretty good stuff right there....if it were only true. You know your wrong and there is no comparying to what you are doing. It's no wonder people complain about burn boats and shallow running skiffs when they have people like yourself operating them. whoopty doo, you have a 50ft. tower and can run in 3 inches of water, if only you had a brain!


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## railbird

gater said:


> Thats some pretty good stuff right there....if it were only true. You know your wrong and there is no comparying to what you are doing. It's no wonder people complain about burn boats and shallow running skiffs when they have people like yourself operating them. whoopty doo, you have a 50ft. tower and can run in 3 inches of water, if only you had a brain!


I guess you are conceding all my points in this debate. "wooptydoo" nice use of the english language. Man, You are a simple guy aren't you. Is that a carryover from your short bus years? Your footprint is much larger than mine, I don't drive like that every day, but you polute every trip. I'm not dumping 2 quarts of oil in the water every time i go fishing.

chuck


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## gater

*RB*



railbird said:


> Gator, your not only running a 2 stroke you are running the cheapest most poluting oil you can find. Heres the quote:
> 
> "You are correct, it is Federal Law and has been for some time. This is why I have run Walmart brand SuperTech oil for the past 6 years.* I pay around $10.00 per gallon and have run it in my Yamaha since it was brand new. My Yamaha has never seen Yamalube and never will. Gater* "
> 
> Wow, very interesting. Now what do you have to say for yourself? lol
> 
> chuck


I have to say I am polluting no more than millions of other two strokes out there and the motor meets or exeeds EPA guidelines just like your 4 stroke does.

It's a stupid argument Chucky, you can't compare anything to what you are doing so quit trying!


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## TexasFlats

Gater,

http://2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/showthread.php?t=269474

Please refer to #2.


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## railbird

gater said:


> I have to say I am polluting no more than millions of other two strokes out there and the motor meets or exeeds EPA guidelines just like your 4 stroke does.
> 
> It's a stupid argument Chucky, you can't compare anything to what you are doing so quit trying!


Oh so your motor being legal to operate makes it ok for you to polute my bay, but its not ok for me to run thru silt that will be in a totally different place tomorrow. Are you disputing the fact that a 4 stroke is far more eco friendly than a 2 stroke? If you were so concerned for the environment and the critters living in it, you would stay off the water completely. Running your boat down the channel effects sea life. I would bet more so than me running across some silt in a back slough.

Still not wanting to talk about what you did to all those birds and critters living on that little island you call home?

chuck


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## scooba

I have read some pretty stupid stuff on this site but the coment about tearing up the resourse tops them all. IT'S JUST MUD PEOPLE!!! There are millions and millions of acres of the stuff in this world. Railbird is just one of the few that has figured out how to run his boat thru it. I am sure he doesn't do it every day and only does it in extreme circumstances. Get a grip!!!


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## scooba

Now that I think about it, Tiki is a man made island made from MUD dredged up from the bay floor and dumped there to form the island. I don't think I will be able to sleep thinkin about all of the critters that this affected. On that note, what about all of the channels that need to be dredged so all of your V-Hulls can navigate our bays. Railbird doesn't need a channel.


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## Miles2Fish

gater said:


> If your that stupid you shouldn't be fishing or running a boat!


Gater, I thought I would bring just a little intelligence to YOUR posts....

Your= a person's possession of an item

You're= You are a stupid person.

If simple grammar is a reach for you I would like to know where the ecological facts about running boats and development of our coastlines is being attained......just sayin'.....


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## gater

*Miles2ish*

*YOUR *very sharp, thanks for pointing that error out, grammor and spelling was something I was never good out. I am glad we got that straight now if Railbird would quit tearing up the marsh......


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## TexasFlats

Gater - You have yet to suggest how we can make our fishing more "eco-friendly" or less invasive - sound off soldier........


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## Miles2Fish

Just thought I would give you a hard time.....Truth of the matter is we all have an impact on the environment no matter what we do! If you can minimize this and still have fun you are doing more than the next person..... you're doing your part. I don't see the harm in running skinny in mud flats but to each their own...that's why we live in America. (At least for now....)


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## railbird

gater said:


> *YOUR *very sharp, thanks for pointing that error out, grammor and spelling was something I was never good out. I am glad we got that straight now if Railbird would quit tearing up the marsh......


LOL, after this statement, I guess i should quit asking you to hold an intelligent convesation. I know for sure it was a waste of time hoping you could make an intelligent arguement. Your way of life is a result of destruction of prime habitat for sea life. You have a wanton disregard for our bays by living that close to them. Give us all a break and move to california.

chuck


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## trimble

*lower unit*

Railbird, I am just wondering how your lower unit is doing. I saw it was missing from your boat on Monday. No disrespect just wondering if running through the mud hurt it.


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## Nocturnal

gater said:


> If your that stupid you shouldn't be fishing or running a boat!


That's not an answer.

I'll concede that I may be ignorant when it comes to the topic of "things that live in mud that we can't live without", but I bet I'm capable of understanding, provided that you can actually explain it.


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## TKoenig

prolly getting his routine waterpump replacement...


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## gater

*Sorry*

Sorry Chuck, I'm not going anywhere....one day when the enviros come in and start shutting down more areas to fish like the marsh, maybe you and your mud slinging groupies will get a clue. Until then, I guess you can continue to play in the mud!


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## TKoenig

its %100 better than playing in the grass...


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## Doubleover

Does this mean that I have to quit mudding on my 4 wheeler?


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## sweenyite

Running low on popcorn...gotta head to the store.


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## railbird

trimble said:


> Railbird, I am just wondering how your lower unit is doing. I saw it was missing from your boat on Monday. No disrespect just wondering if running through the mud hurt it.


I doubt running thru mud helps it any, but the stuff i was running thru is about like running thru a chocolate malt.

I lost a seal in my gearcase, so i pulled it off and took it over to coastal marine in rockport for maintenance. I can't say enough about those guys over there, they are just great.

The motor has 750hrs on it and has to have preventative maintenance from time to time. I am also replacing my water pump when it comes back. I change my gearcase oil every 50hrs and check the oil levels every week. I am also installing and removing my prop every trip, because there are people watching my boat for a chance to see the props I'm running. I noticed water in my gearcase oil recently, so I took it in for maintenance. Everyone should check their gearcase oil regularly, it will save you gearcase if you stay on top of this.

chuck


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## WestEndAngler

Thread jacking took place 39 pages into this thread... I'd say that's a new record for 2COOL... 

All I can say about my surface drive is that its air cooled and exhaust DOES NOT go into the water. The areas we run are inaccessible during the summer months except those at Wallisville & that is contingent upon the Trinity River dropping its daily flow volume or however they describe it... The videos I've all posted become the best Redfish grounds... in fact, Extreme Redfish Trail is hosting their event in the same park we play near (we launch from the same park). I guarantee those teams will be fishing the same areas we ride around and be bringing in nice fish to the weigh in. Wallisville was hit with high water all the vegetation you see out there died from the freezes and high water. Each summer it comes back Greener and better than ever. Ike has opened up a lot of areas... so what if we like to explore


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## jeff.w

Railbird, when you pulled your lower unit, did dead crabs and mudbugs fall out of it? :slimer: 

Seriously though, you've obviously found a prop design that works wonders in shallow water. Curious as to why you guard it with such secrecy? Do you plan on patenting it's design and selling it as the 'Railbird Mud Slinger'? 

If you ever get stuck back there, you are going to wish you'd shared with someone else that can get back there and help you :biggrin:


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## Laguna Freak

*Hate to say it...???*

but railbird is right. check your lower unit for water intrusion. I had a little in mine last year and turns out the culprit was a worn drive shaft seal just below the water pump. Easy fix and cheap parts.


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## WestEndAngler

jeff.w said:


> Railbird, when you pulled your lower unit, did dead crabs and mudbugs fall out of it? :slimer:
> 
> Seriously though, you've obviously found a prop design that works wonders in shallow water. Curious as to why you guard it with such secrecy? Do you plan on patenting it's design and selling it as the 'Railbird Mud Slinger'?
> 
> If you ever get stuck back there, you are going to wish you'd shared with someone else that can get back there and help you :biggrin:


Railbird you get stuck drop me a line I'll winch you out & bring the airboats


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## LBS

*Yo Prop!*



railbird said:


> I am also installing and removing my prop every trip, because there are people watching my boat for a chance to see the props I'm running.
> chuck


I saw your prop at bluff's a few weeks ago, very interesting design, and obviously it works. Don't worry, I won't be posting pics or telling anyone about it out of respect for your design. But I must say, it looks like something you'd see on the back of a pontoon boat!!! I kinda chuckled a little, thinking to myself, "Wow, THAT thing makes that boat do that???"


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## WestEndAngler

*Prop*

Here's the one I'm running 

Notice how what West Bay sand does to it... some guys I run with out in Port Neches are designing some new fishing props these are the standard ones we run but they have 3 blades and again some new fishing props are coming out that are better for speeds and not so much the mud or hunting loads we throw on them during the winter months. 12" 10P prop on left my ninja prop on the right... I think she was an 11P and 12" tip to tip.


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## atcfisherman

sweenyite said:


> Running low on popcorn...gotta head to the store.


*ROFL !!!!! Absolutely!!! I thought this thread died weeks ago!!! Instead of fishermen fighting each other, maybe we should be standing together so the people who want to shut down fishing will see we are not divided. Just a thought!!!*


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## bobbyoshay

ive seen railbirds prop.......and it is definitely something unique! it works for him and i hope he does well with it!


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## WestEndAngler

I just googled TRP never seen one of these bad arse!


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## Bilat Lures

*Watermelon Funk may be to blame!*

Did it look like this one????


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## patwilson

Capt. Brian Bordosky said:


> Did it look like this one????


This one what???


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## TKash

Hey Railbird, I need another video fix!!!!


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## essayons75

TKash said:


> Hey Railbird, I need another video fix!!!!


Hello Rip Van Winkle!


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## TKash

> Hello Rip Van Winkle!


Yea !!!


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## patwilson




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## RAR

I never saw any of the videos... they've all been pulled off youtube. I would like to see them too.


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## railbird

Videos still exist, but will not be public, If you want to see them, I will bring my laptop to the IFA this weekend. I will be trying to get videos of sight casting large trout in the near future. If I'm successful, I will share. I have recently sight cast trout up to 27 3/4". This is very fun stuff, I took James and we caught and released 15 or so nice trout (20"-27 3/4") from the tower.


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## [email protected]

it was awesome!


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## fishnfool

railbird said:


> Videos still exist, but will not be public, If you want to see them, I will bring my laptop to the IFA this weekend. I will be trying to get videos of sight casting large trout in the near future. If I'm successful, I will share. I have recently sight cast trout up to 27 3/4". This is very fun stuff, I took James and we caught and released 15 or so nice trout (20"-27 3/4") from the tower.


Now that I want to go do!


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## ssb

Without rereading entire thread.
Why did you pull videos or why were they pulled. 
I did see them!
Are the props/lower units a commerical venture 
or an expensive play toy?


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## railbird

Props will be brought to market. As for the videos, they were being used by people with an agenda, who were claiming I was destroying grass flats in the video. The area the videos were done was in a shallow channel that had silted in with mud. I was afraid they would be misrepresented to some politician at the state or federal level in attempts to ban the use of powerboats on all or certain flats in texas. No reason to give them anything to point at.

There is a small group of kayakers trying very hard to draft legislation to create no power boat zones all over texas. If we don't stay informed on this we will lose.


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## Bigdsduty

*Chuck*

Chuck,

Which line do I need to stand in to get my prop????


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## ssb

railbird said:


> Props will be brought to market. As for the videos, they were being used by people with an agenda, who were claiming I was destroying grass flats in the video. The area the videos were done was in a shallow channel that had silted in with mud. I was afraid they would be misrepresented to some politician at the state or federal level in attempts to ban the use of powerboats on all or certain flats in texas. No reason to give them anything to point at.
> 
> There is a small group of kayakers trying very hard to draft legislation to create no power boat zones all over texas. If we don't stay informed on this we will lose.


-------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks for explanation!
Good luck with your venture.:texasflag


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## RAR

railbird said:


> Props will be brought to market. As for the videos, they were being used by people with an agenda, who were claiming I was destroying grass flats in the video. The area the videos were done was in a shallow channel that had silted in with mud. I was afraid they would be misrepresented to some politician at the state or federal level in attempts to ban the use of powerboats on all or certain flats in texas. No reason to give them anything to point at.
> 
> There is a small group of kayakers trying very hard to draft legislation to create no power boat zones all over texas. If we don't stay informed on this we will lose.


Cool... Thanks for the info. When can we expect your props to be on the market and what will the price point be?


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## patwilson

X2????



Bigdsduty said:


> Chuck,
> 
> Which line do I need to stand in to get my prop????


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## TexasFlats

Info on the props will be good to hear, but more importantly...

what can we do to help defend our right to freely navigate public waters with our powered boats???

I have kayaked, once - it was a very peaceful adventure - and I have all the respect in the world for those who choose to do so, but don't mess with my rights!

TexasFlats

.


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## Levi

TexasFlats said:


> Info on the props will be good to hear, but more importantly...
> 
> what can we do to help defend our right to freely navigate public waters with our powered boats???
> 
> I have kayaked, once - it was a very peaceful adventure - and I have all the respect in the world for those who choose to do so, but don't mess with my rights!
> 
> TexasFlats
> 
> .


With all respect to yakkers, if this group is going to take away our power boating rights we should just come back at them with no kayak zones... Never hurts someone to taste there own p!$$ on occasion..


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## TheGlynKelly

*RE: Running Skinny*

WHY????????? Because they could? Did someone not check the tide charts? WOW


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## Pescados Locos Tony

This thing is NEVER going to die...........


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## Levi

No joke...lol


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## redman35

WOW 445 post. Who has that picture of a useless thread. We need it about now.


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## whistlingdixie

i heard the plastic from kayaks is bad for the environment. seriously


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## Pescados Locos Tony

I heard when you poop in the water its bad for the environment...at least it makes sense LMAO


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## Levi

Tony, green to ya...LOL


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## Saltstalker

*Divide*

Divide and conquer , that's how the antis will get it done! 
The p boaters vs the kayak'ers , flounder giggers vs the hook and line'ers , archers vs the gunners , croaker soakers vs the artificials etc. so on and so on. Ya better learn how to stand to gather and be open to others ways before its too late. Some of you sound just like liberals ( I know whats best for you ) !


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## TheToad

Man I just saw this and thought someone had stolen that pic this thing is as old as Robert Byrd (oops)


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## Bigdsduty

Who started this ridiculous thread??? :cop:


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