# Light bar etiquette



## standask (Aug 27, 2010)

To all you people with light bars, PLEASE turn the **** things off while approaching a oncoming boat. Just had a DANGEROUS encounter with a moron that felt he didn't need to use his red and green running lights instead he turned his light bar on when we where about 20 yards from having a head on collision. This happened in Bastrop bayou.


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## justletmein (Feb 11, 2006)

Sounds more like nav lights etiquette, for not having any to begin with.


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## Run_aground12 (May 2, 2012)

I agree whole heartedly. Those light bars are blinding when they are coming at you in the dark. Plus apparently the guy didn't have his nav lights on to begin with or you would've seen him coming long before your encounter. Light bars should definitely be turned off around boat traffic.

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## Capt Justin (Sep 20, 2014)

Cant see Nav lights when the light bar is on. Turn them of when approaching another boat.


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## Quackerbox (Feb 6, 2006)

Just as bad when they approach from behind. Couple times running out the POC jetty last year with 5 or 6 behind me I literally had to stop and let them pass. Best part is, it was a full moon and you didnt need any lights to see. Moon was bright enough to count rocks on the jetty


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## BFI (Jan 11, 2006)

I've had the same situation in the same area at Bastrop more than once. Once while underway, all of a sudden they see me and think it's cool to peel the paint off my boat..im totally blinded...I just had to shut it down and wait for them to pass. Another time while I was anchored up they came blazing in, radio blaring, light flaming ...I had my running lights on..they kept coming in hot... too close for my comfort. See nothing but blinding glare..thinking I'm fixing to get plowed.. I briefly hit them with my spot for maybe 1 second and they turned maybe 10 foot off my bow. I thought about running them down but they were drinking...1 of me 2 or more of them. This subject/warning needs to be a sticky. People are going to die due to the ignorance of the operators of go fast boats with led lights that make barge spots look like a frikin flashlight.


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## wiznut (Jun 10, 2013)

I think barge spots are worse. Get one of those shined straight at you and you go blind. They don't turn those darn things off either.


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## bigrebar (Oct 31, 2012)

I have a flounder boat and spend some time out at night obviously. Plenty of nut jobs out there blaring those lights running WFO at night. I hit them with my hand held every time. Some donâ€™t even care. I almost always shut down and turn towards the nearest spoil bank.


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## BFI (Jan 11, 2006)

I know from personal experience that I've been pulled over for not dimming my lights in a motor vehicle by the DPS. Not that laws prevent reckless/idiotic behavior and not many game wardens out at night etc; but a nice fat ticket might slow a few of them suckers down and help the word get out.


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## Fuelin (Jun 21, 2005)

That goes for you jack wagons running down the freeway with them on. Some dude was blinding everyone on 225 Wednesday morning.


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## Txredfish (Oct 27, 2010)

Lots of stupid, no brain people running boats out there. That is why I stay off the water on nights, weekends and holidays. Some act as though they are the only ones on the water. I guess drinking effects their thinking.
I always watch for the other boats. I have had some boats go past me throwing up a huge wake and just about turn me over go and go by me as if I am not there. Another thing is that boats coming toward me, want to bear right into me instead of moving to left like on highway. Sometimes I move to right as far as possible and just stop to let them go by. 
I have not run into the light problem yet, only because I don't night fish. But I have seen a lot of boaters not using their running lights in the fog or early morning before sun up. I guess this could all be another subject on what some unsafe boaters do.
Sorry for the rant.


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## BFI (Jan 11, 2006)

Too add a little humor to this topic...throwing up pop up adds about flashlights.com on this thread.... lmfao. That's just 2cool.... 2 frikin funny. Perhaps they should help in the cause and educate the consumer at the point of purchase.


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## BFI (Jan 11, 2006)

Edit: splashlights.com


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## osage243 (May 23, 2011)

Txredfish said:


> Lots of stupid, no brain people running boats out there. That is why I stay off the water on nights, weekends and holidays. Some act as though they are the only ones on the water. I guess drinking effects their thinking.
> I always watch for the other boats. I have had some boats go past me throwing up a huge wake and just about turn me over go and go by me as if I am not there. Another thing is that boats coming toward me, want to bear right into me instead of moving to left like on highway. Sometimes I move to right as far as possible and just stop to let them go by.
> I have not run into the light problem yet, only because I don't night fish. But I have seen a lot of boaters not using their running lights in the fog or early morning before sun up. I guess this could all be another subject on what some unsafe boaters do.
> Sorry for the rant.


Not a rant, just the truth brother. A lot of the younger generation has no idea what good boating etiquette is.


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## BFI (Jan 11, 2006)

Boating/ fishing etiquette has been hit on, on this site many, many a time. Some folks just don't know any better but unforunately some folks simply just don't care. Unfortunately as well, just as in all other venues...it will take people getting hurt and killed in order to see a change in the idiots behavior. A few big lawsuits against the owner operators of the boats and distributors and manufacturers of the lights that will be what ultimately wakes people up. New laws to follow etc etc. The lack of respect, common sense and common coutesy out there is truly madening for those of us that just want to go for a boat ride, cast a line and chill. Peace out and P.S. Dim them lights!!!


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## kingchip (Apr 20, 2016)

I'm considering installing a small bar on a new acquisition, but wanted to relate. GW gives tickets for using lights at night that make nav lights harder to see. I live on Lake LBJ and know the do it here.


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## cva34 (Dec 22, 2008)

Them Lights are gona get innocent people Killed..on Hyway and Water...I figgered Cops GW and CG DOT would cracked down ..by now....Saw in Bay City the other nite vehicle in oncoming lane had those LEDs around headlights RED on / without headlights on..I thought he was backing down highway tell we got close enough!!!


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## offshorebound (Dec 7, 2012)

Last year I was heading down the Trinity from my camp going to Gatorfest at about 9:00 pm. At about 6knots making sure not to mess the girls hair up before we head to the main event, this jack wagon comes running wide open up the Trinity with his light bar on so I hit him with my spot light and he passed with his front light bar on then turns a light bar on the back of his t top on!!! What an idiot! I have been operating my own boat on the water for 26yrs and would never do anything like this. I spent many mornings running on the dark around other boats heading for duck blinds and haven't run into this until last year.


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## coastalplayer (Jul 5, 2008)

osage243 said:


> Not a rant, just the truth brother. A lot of the younger generation has no idea what good boating etiquette is.


they dont know what ettiquette is either


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## Csafisher (Nov 16, 2010)

coastalplayer said:


> they dont know what ettiquette is either


Haha if that makes y'all better. I can tell you I've run into more idiots with nice boats and light bars in their 40s and 50s than 20s. Youngsters can afford what the generation can. Lol. Now Jetskis and ski boats are another story!!!


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## cva34 (Dec 22, 2008)

coastalplayer said:


> they dont know what ettiquette is either


And even worse (They Could Care Less)


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## 2slick (Dec 5, 2008)

Never been a problem for me as I haven't been on the water at night since I used to run lines on the fresh water lakes. They hadn't even thought about those LED bars back then. I can see the ICW from my back deck though......and there's lots of fools that run that thing wide open in pitch dark. Some without a single navigation light on. Stealth mode I suppose.


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## sabinewhaler88 (Jan 5, 2013)

Light bars are a joke. The same guys with light bars have 15 stickers on the back windshield of his truck and an obnoxiously loud exhaust tip.


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## Z (Sep 22, 2014)

sabinewhaler88 said:


> Light bars are a joke. The same guys with light bars have 15 stickers on the back windshield of his truck and an obnoxiously loud exhaust tip.


A guy walks in to a really dark bar.
Someone say's "what'll it be"
He says "what ya got?"
Voice says "well looks like we're all out of light beer."

that's a light bar joke^


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## Kyle 1974 (May 10, 2006)

sabinewhaler88 said:


> Light bars are a joke. The same guys with light bars have 15 stickers on the back windshield of his truck and an obnoxiously loud exhaust tip.


yeah! the way they illuminate channel markers and identify hazardous materials floating in the water. stupid light bars!

I guess I'm an under achiever. I have stock mufflers and only one sticker on my back window. sad3sm


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## sheldonasvoboda (Apr 23, 2015)

I guess I am one of the bad guys, if I am making the run from corpus to baffin in the dark, im going to make as much light as posible, it seems stupid not to. if there is another boat coming (rarely) wednesday nights are usually when I get in to corpus. I will of course turn the thing off, slow waaay down, switch to qbeam, pass the other boat and be on my way. 
there are conditions where it is completely useless, fog, rain, etc.. but if it is cloudy, and DARK DARK, sorry but Im using the brightest thing I have to make me feel better about the safety of the folks on my boat


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## Fuelin (Jun 21, 2005)

sheldonasvoboda said:


> I guess I am one of the bad guys, if I am making the run from corpus to baffin in the dark, im going to make as much light as posible, it seems stupid not to. if there is another boat coming (rarely) wednesday nights are usually when I get in to corpus. I will of course turn the thing off, slow waaay down, switch to qbeam, pass the other boat and be on my way.
> there are conditions where it is completely useless, fog, rain, etc.. but if it is cloudy, and DARK DARK, sorry but Im using the brightest thing I have to make me feel better about the safety of the folks on my boat


Actually it sounds like you're one of the responsible good guys.


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## sheldonasvoboda (Apr 23, 2015)

^^^^^ this may sound like F" everybody else, but I do know these things are blinding and I am ultra vigilant about turning it off when encountering other boats...and I do have a sticker, but no "exhaust tip"


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## Fuelin (Jun 21, 2005)

It's like everything else. What's once a useful tool is turned into a sign of d-baggery. Take a winch for example, a very handy tool and a must have for some people, then dip wads that live in the middle of mid town who never leave the freeway all have them on their jacked up f250. If used responsibly and appropriatley is all good.


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## RedRocket (Jan 13, 2016)

It sucks going duck hunting in the morning and two or three boats behind you are running the light bars. 
Wouldn't be bad if they turned it on when they needed it but they keep it on until they get the decoys out. I just use a light when needed for markers and entrance points. I know where I am going so why do I need a light on the whole time.


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## duckmania (Jun 3, 2014)

RedRocket said:


> It sucks going duck hunting in the morning and two or three boats behind you are running the light bars.
> Wouldn't be bad if they turned it on when they needed it but they keep it on until they get the decoys out. I just use a light when needed for markers and entrance points. I know where I am going so why do I need a light on the whole time.


Good point. I like to keep my light to a bare minimum when throwing out decoys, if there is any light on the horizon I turn my headlamp off. Circling ducks get spooked by that light reflection.


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## Copano/Aransas (Dec 18, 2011)

Like many of the others have said, just use it responsibly and with courtesy. It's really not that hard: Turn the LED bar off if a boat is coming towards you down the ICW, or in the bay or wherever you are on the water. Always run with your Navigation Lights on anytime your on the water early in the morning or at night. A little common sense goes along way.


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## TexasRenegade (Feb 2, 2015)

I'll usually run my 20" bar till I get through the mine field of crab traps coming out of the ramp on Baffin. Saved me from hitting a 10' 2x6 floating in the open last week too. There's a time and place to use them, and definitely when not to use them.

People running the bay with no lights at all, usually see one or two a month. And waders 100's of yards from their unlit boat with no headlamps. Too many possibilities of what's out there to run without any type of light. Now weither you prefer a handheld Q beam or a light bar that's just preference, but like everyone says you gotta know when to shut em' down and slow down.


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## Sharpjet (May 22, 2009)

*!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*

This happened to me also on the bayou, dick head in a flounder boat was also running his LED on the top and I had to stop to an idle, couldn't see where I was it was so bright and I hit a dang metal pole close to the bank, scratched the **** out of my boat and bent to blades.

turn that **** off when you see another boat.!!!


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## stinkypete (Oct 2, 2015)

Kyle 1974 said:


> yeah! the way they illuminate channel markers and identify hazardous materials floating in the water. stupid light bars!
> 
> I guess I'm an under achiever. I have stock mufflers and only one sticker on my back window. sad3sm


Stupid light bars? Yes. Theyre also illegal to use while running. Read the USCG regulations. Then when youre out there running and another LEO pulls you over explain how they dont interfere with being able to see your nav lights. If you cant see without the lights, maybe you should slow your *** down. This hold especially true for you OUPV holders, you should know better.


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## Kyle 1974 (May 10, 2006)

stinkypete said:


> Stupid light bars? Yes. Theyre also illegal to use while running. Read the USCG regulations. Then when youre out there running and another LEO pulls you over explain how they dont interfere with being able to see your nav lights. If you cant see without the lights, maybe you should slow your *** down. This hold especially true for you OUPV holders, you should know better.


if a light bar is pointed right at you, I'd hope you would know which direction the vessel is traveling. if a boat with a light bar is traveling at some other anglw, name ignition lights are still perfectly visible.

every tow running the icw uses their search light as well. I've never had an issue knowing which way a boat with a light bar is running.

being blinded is another issue, but the navigation light excuse is weak. that's why you don't see anyone getting tickets for it. your interpretation of the word "interfere" is yours. I have a different one.


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## stinkypete (Oct 2, 2015)

Kyle 1974 said:


> if a light bar is pointed right at you, I'd hope you would know which direction the vessel is traveling. if a boat with a light bar is traveling at some other anglw, name ignition lights are still perfectly visible.
> 
> every tow running the icw uses their search light as well. I've never had an issue knowing which way a boat with a light bar is running.
> 
> being blinded is another issue, but the navigation light excuse is weak. that's why you don't see anyone getting tickets for it. your interpretation of the word "interfere" is yours. I have a different one.


Why dont you call the local USCG office and ask them. Just because LEOs dont write tickets for certains things doesnt mean we cant.


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## Kyle 1974 (May 10, 2006)

they will read a rule back to you. they're not going to tell you that light bars are illegal.
and once again, just because a light bar is on doesn't mean navigation lights become invisible.


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## capone (Feb 25, 2013)

stinkypete said:


> Why dont you call the local USCG office and ask them. Just because LEOs dont write tickets for certains things doesnt mean we cant.


Sorry you are wrong brother. Tow boats legally use spot lights while navigating the ICW. Light bars don't have **** on a tow boat spot light. Where I fish folks are respectful of oncoming traffic. If they are not I just leave turn my light back on.

I love how everyone are up to speed on the US code. Give me a break.

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## stinkypete (Oct 2, 2015)

capone said:


> Sorry you are wrong brother. Tow boats legally use spot lights while navigating the ICW. Light bars don't have **** on a tow boat spot light. Where I fish folks are respectful of oncoming traffic. If they are not I just leave turn my light back on.
> 
> I love how everyone are up to speed on the US code. Give me a break.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Im not going to argue with you. Just dont be surprised. By the way I am a little familiar with US Code.


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## Kyle 1974 (May 10, 2006)

stinkypete said:


> Im not going to argue with you. Just dont be surprised.


just a question, if lights that interfere with navigation lights are illegal, then why do they put reflectiveproperties on navigational aids?


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## capone (Feb 25, 2013)

This is why there will never be any tickets written for a light bar. If the PoPo has a problem with my light I will kindly tell him to **** off and refer him to this article.

http://www.houmatoday.com/article/20090522/ARTICLES/905229912

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## stinkypete (Oct 2, 2015)

How many times have you seen someone get a ticket for driving to slow in the left lane when clearly marked "for passing only"? Or look at the front license plate thread. Like i said just because they dont doesnt mean they cant. Cause an accident while running one and see how fast it becomes an issue.


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## stinkypete (Oct 2, 2015)

capone said:


> This is why there will never be any tickets written for a light bar. If the PoPo has a problem with my light I will kindly tell him to **** off and refer him to this article.
> 
> http://www.houmatoday.com/article/20090522/ARTICLES/905229912
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Riighhht. Im sure youll tell him to **** off. Youre just a bad a**.


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## capone (Feb 25, 2013)

stinkypete said:


> How many times have you seen someone get a ticket for driving to slow in the left lane when clearly marked "for passing only"? Or look at the front license plate thread. Like i said just because they dont doesnt mean they cant. Cause an accident while running one and see how fast it becomes an issue.


Yes lots of accidents will occur because the driver can see.

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## Kyle 1974 (May 10, 2006)

I went and pulled my OUPV training back up, and basically, I'm right. stinkypete is wrong.

here's what the language states.

*"vessels may use other lights while underway as long as they cannot be mistaken for lights specified by these rules or interfere with keeping a proper lookout". *

"these rules" refer to lights and shapes in the coast guard guidelines. i.e. towing lights, vessels not under command, trawling, etc.

I was wrong even insinuating that it's illegal for an LED bar to wash out navigation lights. they just can't be confused with other regulated light systems.


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## sheldonasvoboda (Apr 23, 2015)

I know the man who was driving that boat in that article. He was a dear family friend and logged more hours on the water than 90% of folks you know. 
To the "yer gunna git a tikkit" crowd, let me get the ticket and Ill worry about it when I get home safe.


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## 98aggie77566 (Jul 7, 2009)

stinkypete said:


> Im not going to argue with you. Just dont be surprised. By the way I am a little familiar with US Code.


Rather than arguing...why not post a link to the code/statute that you are familiar with?

Maybe it will save us all a lot of trouble.

As for your post stating "If you cant see without the lights, maybe you should slow your *** down"....is your position now that no lights (Qbeam as an example) should be used and we navigate in the pitch black dark? That sounds super safe....


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## Kyle 1974 (May 10, 2006)

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=navRulesContent#rule22


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## jorgepease (Apr 14, 2011)

I agree on taking the ticket, even though I am driving slow, maybe 15 mph which wouldn't kill me to ram into something, I'd rather not spend my time cutting ropes off my prop. But at the speed I run I think I can get away with a pretty weak light.


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## stinkypete (Oct 2, 2015)

Its not illegal to have them on the boat. Its illegal to use them in such a manner that prevents other vessels from seeing your nav lights while under way. Movable spotlights are different than a permantly directed light that blinds everything in front of it. Im on my way out but ill find the actual link later. 
Im all for them if youre out in the middle of nowhere using them but dont be surprised if you get stopped and ticketed when you blind CG or other LE running them in a heavily populated areas. 
As for the so I can see BS claim, people have been running in the dark for years without much issue. Its funny how all the people I see doing it all have that look at me syndrome.


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## Kyle 1974 (May 10, 2006)

stinkypete said:


> Its not illegal to have them on the boat. Its illegal to use them in such a manner that prevents other vessels from seeing your nav lights while under way. Movable spotlights are different than a permantly directed light that blinds everything in front of it. Im on my way out but ill find the actual link later.
> Im all for them if youre out in the middle of nowhere using them but dont be surprised if you get stopped and ticketed when you blind CG or other LE running them in a heavily populated areas.
> As for the so I can see BS claim, people have been running in the dark for years without much issue. Its funny how all the people I see doing it all have that look at me syndrome.


the regulation says other lights cannot be used where they can be mistaken for other lights. no where in the rules does it say what you're arguing.

I posted the link to the coast Guard regs regarding lights and signals.


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## jorgepease (Apr 14, 2011)

Kyle 1974 said:


> the regulation says other lights cannot be used where they can be mistaken for other lights. no where in the rules does it say what you're arguing.
> 
> I posted the link to the coast Guard regs regarding lights and signals.


I think that means, mistaken for normally required lights such as the nav light, all around light or other type of light such as flashing light that might be required as per the regs... So it would seem an LED light bar would be okay as it nowhere looks like normal running lights.

I bet you get harassed at the least if you blind the CG though lol


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## Kyle 1974 (May 10, 2006)

yeah, no doubt common sense applies when you're passing other boats, but a blanket statement that they're not legal, simply isn't true. 

still waiting for pete to tell me why all nav aids have reflective material on them if we're all supposed to be running without lights at nighttime.


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## TheGoose (Jan 22, 2006)

RIP Flakman

http://2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/member.php?u=574



capone said:


> This is why there will never be any tickets written for a light bar. If the PoPo has a problem with my light I will kindly tell him to **** off and refer him to this article.
> 
> http://www.houmatoday.com/article/20090522/ARTICLES/905229912
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Copano/Aransas (Dec 18, 2011)

Has anyone on here ever been traveling down the ICW and a Tugboat/Towboat flipped his 1,000,000 watt Q-beam's on or he just had them on ? Can you see his Navigation lights on?? Heck no, you can't even see in front of you unless he turns it which sometime they will do out courtesy. But I've had them where they just leave it on, and you just have to deal with it. I never see them getting pulled over by the USCG either. The smart thing to do is turn it off if your in a highly traveled area with other boats approaching you. When I'm running across the open bay at 5AM my LED bar will be on. Unless there is a boat coming my way. If that bothers you well then go pound sand, i value my safety and other onboard as #1 while on the water.


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## Kyle 1974 (May 10, 2006)

I still get a kick out of this argument. "that guy has a 20,0000 lumen led light bar shining in the direction he's running, but I can't see his 3 watt port sidelight!!!!" danger!!!-


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## loco4fishn (May 17, 2010)

*Lol*



Kyle 1974 said:


> I still get a kick out of this argument. "that guy has a 20,0000 lumen led light bar shining in the direction he's running, but I can't see his 3 watt port sidelight!!!!" danger!!!-


Good times!!!


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## 98aggie77566 (Jul 7, 2009)

stinkypete said:


> As for the so I can see BS claim, people have been running in the dark for years without much issue. Its funny how all the people I see doing it all have that look at me syndrome.


Now that is just crazy.....

Growing up as a kid on East Matty....I seem to recall the old timers regularly used a QBeam heading out on morning duck hunts, late night flounder trips. Heck that was before the days of GPS when you didn't even have the benefit of following a track?

On mornings as dark as a whore's heart....how in the world can anyone see without a light of some nature?

On a clear night with a good moon.....certainly many of us find you can actually see better without a light.

There is a post or two in the middle of East Bay....I hope you have awfully good night vision.

Still hoping to see that code you are familiar with....


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## Fowlhooked. (Mar 29, 2010)

I appreciate this topic being posted. I grew up with an old salt for a dad. He let me drive to the to the duck blind in the mornings. Just staying in the ICW @ East Matty was difficult. I'd cut the Q-beam on and off to check the bank / spoils. I remember the first time I shined my Q-beam directly at a barge. He chewed me out. Never blind another captain even a big tugboat. You'll notice the barge captains try to do the same for you. 
A buddy and I were running from Flour Bluff to Baffin last year. My first encounter with a light bar and I was beside myself. It was a bright night and eyes easily acclimated to see any hazards and monitor water reflections. A gps line and spotlight at the ready if needed. The oncoming boat took away my ability, completely, to safely navigate. I'm glad my old man wasn't there it would have broke his heart. I got mad when I realized what was going and put my Q-beam right on um to the return the favor until they passed. 
It was immature and reading this I realize those guys just didn't know any better. It has bothered me ever since though.
Again, thanks for starting this thread and I really hope the word gets out. It not only makes the experience painful for others, but puts their vessel and personal safety at risk.


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## stinkypete (Oct 2, 2015)

Kyle 1974 said:


> I went and pulled my OUPV training back up, and basically, I'm right. stinkypete is wrong.
> 
> here's what the language states.
> 
> ...





98aggie77566 said:


> Rather than arguing...why not post a link to the code/statute that you are familiar with?
> 
> Maybe it will save us all a lot of trouble.
> 
> As for your post stating "If you cant see without the lights, maybe you should slow your *** down"....is your position now that no lights (Qbeam as an example) should be used and we navigate in the pitch black dark? That sounds super safe....





Kyle 1974 said:


> http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=navRulesContent#rule22





Kyle 1974 said:


> the regulation says other lights cannot be used where they can be mistaken for other lights. no where in the rules does it say what you're arguing.
> 
> I posted the link to the coast Guard regs regarding lights and signals.


Sorry. I forgot all about this. Kyle first of all you posted the wrong law, not surprisingly.

The US Code that covers this is 83.20 or otherwise known as rule 20. Yes 22 does touch on the subject but still its thewrong one. It is as follows.

Rule 20

(a) Rules 20-31 shall be complied with in all weathers.

(b) The Rules concerning lights shall be complied with from sunset to sunrise, *and during such times no other lights shall be exhibited, except such lights which cannot be mistaken for the lights specified in these Rules or do not impair their visibility or distinctive character*, or interfere with the keeping of a proper look-out.

(c) The lights prescribed by these Rules shall, if carried, also be exhibited from sunrise to sunset in restricted visibility and may be exhibited in all other circumstances when it is deemed necessary.

(d) The Rules concerning shapes shall be complied with by day.

(e) The lights and shapes specified in these Rules shall comply with the provisions of Annex I of these Rules

The important phrase here is the "do not impair their visibility" part. It refers to impairing other vessels ability to see your nav lights. Especially in a head on meeting situation. Now whether you think this applies or not really doesnt matter. If one of us wants to cite you for it, it will stick. Like i said before just because LEOs arent out there writing everyone for it doesnt mean its kosher.

So Kyle, who was wrong? Thats right, you were.


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## Kyle 1974 (May 10, 2006)

I didn't post the wrong law, I posted a link to the entire set of the rules of the road.

here's the part that I Think is the important phrase. *" except such lights which cannot be mistaken for the lights specified in these Rules"* OR, not "and".

From a common sense standpoint, If you can't tell the difference between a LED bar, and a port side lamp, you shouldn't be on the water. If you can't determine in a head on situation that a boat with an LED bar pointing straight in front of it is moving "head on", you probably shouldn't be on the water. I can see your point, but I disagree that it's going to stick. I don't know a single person that's ever got a ticket for running with a light bar.

that said, I still agree common courtesy applies, and people should not be pointing them directly at other boats, but this opinion you have that your going to round up everyone running with an LED bar, is absolute BS.


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## capone (Feb 25, 2013)

stinkypete said:


> Sorry. I forgot all about this. Kyle first of all you posted the wrong law, not surprisingly.
> 
> The US Code that covers this is 83.20 or otherwise known as rule 20. Yes 22 does touch on the subject but still its thewrong one. It is as follows.
> 
> ...


So...Mr. Law please explain to me how the lights from a Shrimp boat, tow boat, drillship, semi submersible drilling rig or dredge don't drown out the navigation lights.

My next question...Why do you care? Is it light bar envy? Do others display a longer bar than yours? Does your little light not shine so bright? Did someone blind you before having morning coffee?

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## 98aggie77566 (Jul 7, 2009)

stinkypete said:


> Sorry. I forgot all about this. Kyle first of all you posted the wrong law, not surprisingly.
> 
> The US Code that covers this is 83.20 or otherwise known as rule 20. Yes 22 does touch on the subject but still its thewrong one. It is as follows.
> 
> ...


Well....thanks for the follow up....though I think we can all live without the smart *** overtones and still learn something?

So you posted the statute....thank you!

As I read it, the law does not pertain to the use of light bars...and if it did, it would also apply to basically any spot light, Q-Beam, Tug light, etc...and we would all be running in the dark.

Can you provide a single (just one) example of a recreational vessel with a light bar being cited....and the charges sticking?

If the law is that cut and dried, and really as egregious and common as it seems, certainly there should be at least one case/conviction on the books?

Thanks in advance!

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## Kyle 1974 (May 10, 2006)

rules 20 thru 31 all deal with lights and day shapes, rule 20 is the application of that set of rules. rule 22 doesn't "touch" on lights, it's in the core of the regs.


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## sheldonasvoboda (Apr 23, 2015)

I talked to my local game warden, he doesn't give a $hit about light bars


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## stinkypete (Oct 2, 2015)

I didnt say anybody gave a **** about light bars. I certainly am not jealous of someone strapping a chinese lightbar to their boat. Personally i think they look retarded and was out more detail than a spotlight. I said technically they are illegal. I also said it didnt make it legal even though nobody was being cited for it. 

Kyle youre probably right that they wont be confused for nav lights but as bright as they are they definately interfere with your nav lights being seen. Will someone write you for it? Probably not unless youre being a douche and blinding people especially a LEO. Say were both coming head on through a narrow channel and the officer cant see anything but your light bar. You are gonna gonna have a chat. Whether you get cited for it depends. 
Now if your in an accident because another boater couldnt tell where you were headed because all he saw was a 60" lightbar blinding him and couldnt tell where you were going, Id bet youre going to get your butt handed to you.

You want to use one I dont care. Just dont be dick about it.


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## stinkypete (Oct 2, 2015)

98aggie77566 said:


> Well....thanks for the follow up....though I think we can all live without the smart *** overtones and still learn something?
> 
> So you posted the statute....thank you!
> 
> ...


The law does apply to any of the above lights if you are using it in such a manner that it prevents your Nav light from being seen. As for a specific situation? Probably only if it involved an accident.


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## markmc2 (Aug 19, 2015)

GW gave my dad some grief on his 'driving lights' but didn't put it on paper. he did cite him on some small spotted gars that he incorrectly called gator gars...didn't have double row of teeth. i think it was eventually reversed.


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## 98aggie77566 (Jul 7, 2009)

stinkypete said:


> The law does apply to any of the above lights if you are using it in such a manner that it prevents your Nav light from being seen. As for a specific situation? Probably only if it involved an accident.


How in the world is someone gonna see my 5 watt port/starboard light when I am shining a Q-Beam?

I don't understand how a spotlight is any different than a light bar.

Obviously I am going to be shining both in the direction I am traveling.

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## Kyle 1974 (May 10, 2006)

pete, first off, my lights are American made rigid. 

second, I am a dick. admitting it is half the battle, right? . I could use some help mellowing out. it's clear from your posts you are absolutely in control of all emotions related to being a dick. can you give me some pointers? LOL.


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## TXFishin (Apr 26, 2010)

Actually it's not just about etiquette, it's a law that you can be ticketed for, and know those who have

"Continuous operation of any non-navigational lighting not required or defined, including but not limited to, docking lights, spot lights, flood lights, etc., is prohibited, with the exception of intermittent usage to identify channel markers and other navigational markers/signs"


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## 98aggie77566 (Jul 7, 2009)

TXFishin said:


> Actually it's not just about etiquette, it's a law that you can be ticketed for, and know those who have
> 
> "Continuous operation of any non-navigational lighting not required or defined, including but not limited to, docking lights, spot lights, flood lights, etc., is prohibited, with the exception of intermittent usage to identify channel markers and other navigational markers/signs"


OK...now we are getting somewhere.

Where did you copy/paste the text above from? Please send the link.

Curious - how much was the ticket? Might be worth it to save from hitting something while running down the ditch at night.

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## Kyle 1974 (May 10, 2006)

98aggie77566 said:


> OK...now we are getting somewhere.
> 
> Where did you copy/paste the text above from? Please send the link.
> 
> ...


when you do a search on that text, this thread is the only thing that comes up. I'm curious where it came from too.


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## Redman1973 (Jun 11, 2016)

Kyle 1974 said:


> if a light bar is pointed right at you, I'd hope you would know which direction the vessel is traveling. if a boat with a light bar is traveling at some other anglw, name ignition lights are still perfectly visible.
> 
> every tow running the icw uses their search light as well. I've never had an issue knowing which way a boat with a light bar is running.
> 
> being blinded is another issue, but the navigation light excuse is weak. that's why you don't see anyone getting tickets for it. your interpretation of the word "interfere" is yours. I have a different one.


If you think that the USCG or local and state game wardens are not giving out tickets... You're sadly mistaking. My neighbor is a coasty and he has informed me that this is an up and coming Trent that has already caused some accidents in the marsh.

As long as you turn your lights off when approaching other vessels, the authority will let you go.

Stay safe on the water.

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## Kyle 1974 (May 10, 2006)

Everyone seems to know a guy that knows a guy who heard something.

Turning them off when approaching another boat is fine, and people should do that, but there doesn't seem to be any law written that details out that practice.


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## lurker (Feb 26, 2015)

Kyle 1974 said:


> Everyone seems to know a guy that knows a guy who heard something.
> 
> Turning them off when approaching another boat is fine, and people should do that, but there doesn't seem to be any law written that details out that practice.


Regarding laws, if there isn't one, there should be.

I've had my vision wiped out by boats with light bars behind me (running the same direction down the icw) because the light bars illuminate the moisture in the air all around you.

The bottom line is that these light bars make navigation difficult for every boater except the one using them. If you can manage to turn it off when around other boats, great. If not, you should be ticketed.

These things are not like a hand operated q-beam which can be pointed quickly at points low on the water, away from other boats, then turned off. They aren't operated that way, in my experience anyhow.


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## Kyle 1974 (May 10, 2006)

maybe we should all stop driving without headlights on the highways too.


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## Redman1973 (Jun 11, 2016)

Kyle 1974 said:


> Everyone seems to know a guy that knows a guy who heard something.
> 
> Turning them off when approaching another boat is fine, and people should do that, but there doesn't seem to be any law written that details out that practice.


That is absolutely correct... No specific law against using them.

What my neighbor informed me (boatsmen 1st class) is that when a vessel is operating at night and is clearly obstructing the view of other vessels with their spot lights or headlights a ticket is issued for either recklessly operating a vessel and or operating a vessel without appropriately displaying the vessels navigation lights. 


Kyle 1974 said:


> Everyone seems to know a guy that knows a guy who heard something.
> 
> Turning them off when approaching another boat is fine, and people should do that, but there doesn't seem to be any law written that details out that practice.


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## lurker (Feb 26, 2015)

Kyle 1974 said:


> maybe we should all stop driving without headlights on the highways too.


An apples/apples comparison would actually be driving with light bars on the highway, which is illegal.


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## TexasRenegade (Feb 2, 2015)

lurker said:


> An apples/apples comparison would actually be driving with light bars on the highway, which is illegal.


Because everything on a public highway must be DOT approved, not because of the specific light bar design. I replaced my headlight bulbs with aftermarket LED bulbs and I wish the 20" light bar on my boat would put out that much light.


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## lurker (Feb 26, 2015)

TexasRenegade said:


> Because everything on a public highway must be DOT approved, not because of the specific light bar design. I replaced my headlight bulbs with aftermarket LED bulbs and I wish the 20" light bar on my boat would put out that much light.


Why aren't light bars DOT approved? Could you imagine every tool with a 48" bar on their truck driving with them on at night? On a 2-lane highway??

Also, I'm guessing your headlights are pointed down at the road as to not blind other drivers, if they are brighter than your light bar? For that matter, using a light bar around other boaters is not much different than driving with your high beams on.

The bottom line is, when used around other boats, light bars have the ability to, and often do, obstruct the ability for others to otherwise navigate safely. Just keep them off until you're on your own. If you can't navigate without them down the icw with other boaters around you, wait for the sun.


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## stinkypete (Oct 2, 2015)

lurker said:


> Regarding laws, if there isn't one, there should be.
> 
> I've had my vision wiped out by boats with light bars behind me (running the same direction down the icw) because the light bars illuminate the moisture in the air all around you.
> 
> ...


There are several of the laws that apply to their use. Some people just want to argue about it about it because they want to run their light bars without regard.


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## stinkypete (Oct 2, 2015)

Kyle 1974 said:


> Everyone seems to know a guy that knows a guy who heard something.
> 
> Turning them off when approaching another boat is fine, and people should do that, but there doesn't seem to be any law written that details out that practice.


Kyle there are several laws that apply. Is there one that specifically says "no light bars"? No, but the others laws covers the issue so why does there need to be a specific law? For example you have one that say you cant have other lights that interfer with the visibility of your nav lights. You have one that says you cant embarrass other boaters. Which if you understand the context of that law it covers it specifically. In essence " to embarrass" means you light up or essentially blind the helm of another boat. You cant help but do one of those two things when your running with a bright *** light bar.


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## Kyle 1974 (May 10, 2006)

Because light bars are a safety feature, much like headlights over ride the importance of fog lights on a clear night. 

Bottom line, running at night is safer for most recreational boats with lights than without. 

Everyone keeps talking about light bars causing accidents, while apparently ignoring boats that crash at night all the time. Boats hit floating debris that could be identified with lights, that radar won't pick up. 

Keep blaming led bars, like libtards blame guns.


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## kenny (May 21, 2004)

TexasRenegade said:


> Because everything on a public highway must be DOT approved, not because of the specific light bar design. I replaced my headlight bulbs with aftermarket LED bulbs and I wish the 20" light bar on my boat would put out that much light.


Let me guess. You have a lifted Dodge diesel truck with an awesome sound system.


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## TexasRenegade (Feb 2, 2015)

kenny said:


> Let me guess. You have a lifted Dodge diesel truck with an awesome sound system.


Wow, you got all that because I have bright high beams.


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## Sgrem (Oct 5, 2005)

Mont gonna need to add a rule....like snakes....light bars can only be discussed in the Jungle.

This is STOOOOOOPID. Courtesy yall....while walking, talking, driving, boating, shopping, pooping (courtesy flush as i am being reminded right now), fishing, hunting, replying to threads .....whatever....COURTESY.

Sucks when I get blinded by a guy that accidentally leaves his high beams on. My bad I have done it too by accident and man I feel bad when I do....and I try to remember better next time by making it important and being more aware.

I don't need a law to tell me to raise the seat....courtesy.


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## lurker (Feb 26, 2015)

Kyle 1974 said:


> Because light bars are a safety feature, much like headlights over ride the importance of fog lights on a clear night.
> 
> Bottom line, running at night is safer for most recreational boats with lights than without.
> 
> ...


Your light bar makes it harder for me to see when you use it around me. That's making my navigation unnecessarily difficult. On the other hand, my not having a light bar does not hinder your ability to navigate. That's really what this is all about.

People are going to do what they want, though, and to hell with others. This thread won't actually get anyone to do anything different.

I might smoke a log that blew down the Colorado my next trip out while running without a light bar, but that's my risk to take.

As I said on the previous page, if you want to use your lights without interfering with the navigation of others, go nuts.


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## fattyflattie (May 20, 2008)

lurker said:


> Your light bar makes it harder for me to see when you use it around me. That's making my navigation unnecessarily difficult. On the other hand, my not having a light bar does not hinder your ability to navigate. That's really what this is all about.
> 
> People are going to do what they want, though, and to hell with others. This thread won't actually get anyone to do anything different.
> 
> ...


You need a light bar. Will help avoid those logs.


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## justletmein (Feb 11, 2006)

fattyflattie said:


> You need a light bar. Will help avoid those logs.


lmao


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## Kyle 1974 (May 10, 2006)

Hitting logs is freedom!


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## weimtrainer (May 17, 2007)

I think I'll tie the boat to my pier, have a few drinks and watch all of the light bars whiz back and forth across Baffin Bay.


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## LA Wader (Oct 22, 2013)

How did we ever navigate the bays without lightbars for so many years! I will probably smash something one day, but like mentioned already, that's a chance I take when running in the dark!


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## capone (Feb 25, 2013)

LA Wader said:


> How did we ever navigate the bays without lightbars for so many years! I will probably smash something one day, but like mentioned already, that's a chance I take when running in the dark!


First no lights, then hard hat lights, then led bars. Technology improved, apparently common sense has not. Did you make your post from a bag phone or postit note?

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## justletmein (Feb 11, 2006)

LA Wader said:


> How did we ever navigate the bays without lightbars for so many years! * I will probably smash something one day, but like mentioned already, that's a chance I take when running in the dark!*


I sure hope it's not some poor guy trying to get some early wade fishing in before daybreak.


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## LA Wader (Oct 22, 2013)

> I sure hope it's not some poor guy trying to get some early wade fishing in before daybreak.


I doubt that would be what I smash into! I am very familiar with the areas I fish or hunt in, so it would be some object that is typically not there if I was to run over something. I don't run where people would be wading, just saying.


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## QBall (Jun 27, 2004)

*Solution!*

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00L8KP16E/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I installed this when I put the bar on mine. Stay safe and be courteous.


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## sheldonasvoboda (Apr 23, 2015)

dimmer switch? that is really slick....would that work on any standard light bar?


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## kenny (May 21, 2004)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...s-warn-bright-lamps-cause-sleep-problems.html


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## TexasRenegade (Feb 2, 2015)

kenny said:


> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...s-warn-bright-lamps-cause-sleep-problems.html


How'd it go from LED bars on boats to street lights disrupting sleep cycles?


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## Copano/Aransas (Dec 18, 2011)

From Imgur.com









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## kenny (May 21, 2004)

Copano/Aransas said:


> From Imgur.com
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:rotfl:


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