# Flesh eating virus



## yellowmouth2 (Aug 16, 2005)

Just thought I'd inform everyone that there's a man from Baytown area that caught the flesh eating virus. He caught it wade fishing at the Chandileur islands. Didn't have a cut, but horse flys were real bad and he thinks it had a horse fly bite and he got infected through that bite. He's on his second surgery. The first surgery they removed a 2 x 5 chunk of meat from his ankle. They are having to remove more. Please say a pray for this individual.


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## BigPig069 (May 20, 2006)

Many Prayers Sent Out!


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## Fishinrob (Dec 1, 2007)

Its called Vibrio. Get medical help fast. Helps Doctors when you know the name of the virus. Some non coastal docs are unfamiliar and think its MSRA. Wash hands and cuts with 50% bleach and water. Check TPWD Website for more info. 

Hope he recovers...


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## bleb (Mar 6, 2008)

Oh BTW its a bacteria but its still called vibrio early detection / treatment better results


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## arius felis (Jun 12, 2007)

vibrio is vibrio / treatment is painful and the bacteria has a very long term effect !!!!!!!


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## monkeyman1 (Dec 30, 2007)

couldn't upload photo (bmp file), but it's ugly!

keep some diluted clorox solution around when fishing...the guy in the photo says he discovered his pain threshold level when they pack/unpack the area under the skin on the outer part of the wound.


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## monkeyman1 (Dec 30, 2007)

*Warning: Graphic Image Of Effect Of Vibrio*

getting worse...moved down on to foot.


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## stxhunter (May 19, 2006)

Hope all goes well, wishing him the best!!


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## dennis_99 (Feb 27, 2006)

Is that a real picture of a vibro patient.


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## 22fish (Dec 12, 2006)

I always keep Hydrogen Peroxide in the boat. I feel for the guy


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## sbs5950 (Apr 3, 2008)

holy **** that is insane!


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## arius felis (Jun 12, 2007)

yup thats looks just like my dads ,but his was really bad. knee too the arch of his foot to the bone in some places. flu like sytmptom went to the doc s and boom. blister knee down AND ALL THE WAY DOWN TO HIS FOOT,MATTER OF HOURS VERY STRANGE.JUST DIDNT BELIEVE IT.THREE MONTHS DOWN THE ROAD STILL WAS IN THE HOSPITAL, I NEARLY KILLED THE OLD MAN,JUST BY TAKING HIM FISHING. JUST TAKE SOME SIMPLE PREVENTIVE MEASURE, AND TAKE CARE OF YA SELF AND LEARN ABOUT THIS NATURAL BACTERIA. THIGHT LINES TO ALL.


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## fishnstringer (Oct 20, 2006)

*I'm what most of you would call an "old timer",*

but I have an experienced saltwater fishing friend that don't believe the virus exists, thus I keep copies of articles to remind him. I seem to recall one article wherein one of the guys that died of it over the last few years contacted it resulting from his wading boots rubbing his ankle. The picture shown in this set of posts reminds me this fisherman may have experienced the same cause. His virus is certainly in the same area of his body. It seems to occur in brackish water. Due to the Mississippi River flowing out there and if rains have been heavy in the Mississippi drainage basin that may be how the virus is present there. My thoughts and prayers are with him. Keep that bleach handy, whatever you do.


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## TLCurd (Feb 13, 2008)

*Freaking out...*

So now I'm a little freaked out by reading all of this. On Sunday evening I was flyfishing down in Seabrook and had gotten out of the water for a moment. When I went to get back in, I just happened to enter in an area where the water depth changed by like two feet and misjudged my step as a result. So there I went face first into the drink and landed on some oysters with my hand (a few nice little gashes) and then two pretty deep, 5 inch cuts on my calf. Didn't think too much of it at the time, kept fishing til dark. I got home, cleaned them with some hydrogen peroxide, end of story. They look pretty bad now, but nothing I would think is out of the ordinary...until reading this. I guess it's easy to take something normal and make it into a big bad deal. You fellas think i should be alright? I certainly hope so...lol.


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## srward (Oct 21, 2005)

TLCurd, I hear you. I rubbed the ball of my ankle raw in my wading boot a week ago and the spot got real tender. I washed it well and just paid careful attention to whether or not it got worse. From what I've read, people with compromised immune symptoms are more likely to contract it (e.g. older folks, recently sick, etc.). 

Let us know if you make it TLCurd.

Most of us probably know of someone who got it, but I still think the odds of contracting it are pretty rare.....sure isn't scaring people off the water.


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## oc48 (Aug 13, 2005)

*flesh eating*

I had a flesh eating bacteria but not vibrio (don't think) that started as a boil on the part of my inside thigh where the leg meets my body (the crease). Well in about 3 days of pain, it got to the point where I couldn't walk and it actually tracked like a **** catapiller under my skin. Would up in the ER and opened up and basically had to keep the wound open and packed with fresh gauze every 12 hours until it healed up about two weeks later. Worse pain of my life.

I'm that guy that never sees a doctor and thinks most doctors and nurses and medical facilities are full of whacks. Big mistake on my part.

Just go to a doctor, go to a clinic, actually, go to the ER even before it gets too bad. TRUST ME. Worth the couple of hours and $$$ to NOT GO THROUGH WHAT I DID. Having my wife pull the gauze out and fill it in twice a day was painful for me and pretty **** painful for her.

You got an oyster cut and after a day of neosporin, it still hurts, itches, looks nasty.....GO TO THE DOCTOR.


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## spannymacker (Jan 3, 2008)

I use liquid bandaid on all my open cuts and sores before getting in the water...heard it's a smart thing to do.


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## bleb (Mar 6, 2008)

watch deep cuts those are the dangerous ones.. Purell works great against these bacteria put it on any cut you get while fishing as soon as you get out of the water and make sure it gets in the cut! AN ounce of prevention no wading with deep cuts. One guide got it two weeks after hand surgery must have come in through a suture tract.


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## Tailwalker22 (Oct 12, 2007)

that happens to be a good buddy of mine they moved him to memorial herman where they think they have it under control, just be careful and coming out of his mouth "where waders wadefishing i dont care how hot it is" this isnt to scare everyone just to make you aware theres harmful things in the water not visible to the eye keep him in your prayers thanks.

Trevor


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## fishnstringer (Oct 20, 2006)

*Some people are more prone to get it and from what I recall*

it is those with a weak immune system, especially someone that has liver problems. Unfortunately, some people with liver problems don't know it until it's too late. Also, as I pointed out in my previous post it can only be a scrape, not necessarily a deep cut. BTW, I keep several tubes of generic triple antibiotic salve from HEB just about everywhere I can be found, car, office home, boat, etc. I used it once on a serious cut to the bone on my hand, resulting from my being a very careless sharpening a knife, while at the coast. I immediately dressed the cut and kept it dressed all three days and the cut healed in about a week! I would definitely recommend it to anyone.


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## IBreeling (Feb 27, 2008)

Hey guys I'm no doctor but I always try to keep up with my tetanus shots. I've had a hook thru my thumb nail, a knife cut from cleaning fish that required 3 stitches, fish fins that stuck me real good and fish bites from removing hooks. I've been very fortunate that I never got an infection or the Vibro. After a few choice words and the chicken dance when my Bo-Bo's occur, my wounds would heal properly. It's a real good idea to carry a small first aid kit and throw in a bottle or tube of antiseptic. Oh! don't forget a real good set of wire snips that can cut the average size hook. Pay the extra dollar or two to get a good set of snips. The one I had couldnt cut the stainless hook.

My feelings go out the gentleman and wish him a speedy recovery.


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## monkeyman1 (Dec 30, 2007)

dennis_99 said:


> Is that a real picture of a vibro patient.


yes, it is. i know him and know the people who sent the photo to me. i used to work with him and still work with mutual friends.

the only injury he knows of prior to the spot getting bad was horsefly bites that he'd scratched on his ankle. they moved him from baytown to methodist/houston earlier this week.

mm1


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## ANYBDYHERE (Mar 16, 2007)

http://www.cdc.gov/nczved/dfbmd/disease_listing/vibriov_gi.html

Here is a link to all the information you need to know about this disease....pretty scary stuff. Knowledge is crucial in this situation.


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## Freshwaterman (May 21, 2004)

> It seems to occur in brackish water.


Not true. That's not a requirement.

People've contracted this wading the surf. That's around 30 ppt salinity. Brackish would be more around 5 ppt.


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## scubaru (Mar 28, 2005)

That's Carl Manchaka's ankle with the vibrio on it. I thought it was brackish and backwater that didn't circulate that held it, but this fella got it through a horsefly bite wading the Chandelieur's.


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## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

from a previous _vibrio_ thread of a few weeks ago when someone asked about the correlation between the bacteria and water temperature ...

http://2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/showthread.php?t=163282&highlight=vulnificus



mastercylinder said:


> a number of factors influence the proliferation of _vibrio_ in our waters such as water temperature, ph, salinity, etc. vibrio numbers increase in mostly shallower coastal waters up to about 78 degrees, then remain rather constant at temperatures above that.
> 
> however, please remember these facts: infections from _vibrio vulnificus *are quite rare*_, and people who do become infected with the bacteria are almost always older people and/or people who have chronic health problems such as diabetes, or health conditions that have compromised their immune systems.
> 
> ...


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## monkeyman1 (Dec 30, 2007)

this guy isn't close to 65...under 50. don't know about his health at the time contracted, but he's always seemed healthy as a horse.


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## scubaru (Mar 28, 2005)

mastercylinder said:


> from a previous _vibrio_ thread of a few weeks ago when someone asked about the correlation between the bacteria and water temperature ...
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mastercylinder*
> ...


that ole boy ain't even a doctor


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## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

monkeyman1 said:


> this guy isn't close to 65...under 50. don't know about his health at the time contracted, but he's always seemed healthy as a horse.


it's not impossible, just extremely rare for a person under 65 and without some underlying health issues (diabetes, liver disease, etc.) to contract _vibrio. _

according to the cdc in atlanta, from 1988-2006, there were 900 cases of infection due to _vibrio _reported. granted not all cases were reported, but if you consider how many millions and millions of people went swimming, fishing, surfing, skiing, ate raw oysters, and whatever else along the gulf coast during those 18 years, and there were only 900 cases of _vibrio_ reported, then you'll see why i say the infection is quite rare and something the average healthy 2cool fisherman should not be overly concerned about.

if you are over 65, or have diabetes, liver disease, or other disease state that can compromise your body's ability to fight infection, then take the necessary precautions because these people are about 100 times more susceptible to the _vibrio _bacteria than are otherwise healthy individuals. if not, i would be aware of it, but i wouldn't worry about it.



scubaru said:


> that ole boy ain't even a doctor


then go ask your doctor.


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## scubaru (Mar 28, 2005)

ask him what? Besides, I can read everything I need to know on 2cool,  .


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## yellowmouth2 (Aug 16, 2005)

I've heard all this information too, about vibrio only affecting people with low immune systems, older people, liver problems, etc. But this guy that we're discussing in this thread is 44 years old (plus/minus), been working out for 2 to 3 months, was in good shape. If anything, his immune system may have been low due to working out too much. Who knows? It's got me thinking differently about wading. And yes, those are real pictures.


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## Freshwaterman (May 21, 2004)

Working out doesn't make you immune to infection......

I've heard of people with lupus, liver disease, HIV and several other conditions becoming infected with this, though.


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## deebo (May 22, 2004)

I have an auto-immune disease, take pills every day to suppress my immune system, and the 2 guys i fish with the most both have diabetes. this doesnt keep us out of the water, but you better believe it is always in the back our minds. just keep an eye out, and if anything looks suspicious, get to the doc. Be smart, and dont be afriad to check anything out with the doc, but other than that, get in the water and catch some fish!


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## fish fry (May 19, 2007)

We hope they stop this before it gets any worse! our prayers are with you!!


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## duckenhouston (Dec 10, 2007)

This is Day 7 . He should be home by the Weekend with no additional cuts.

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g211/davidb713/Family/photo.jpg


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## Bill Stevens (Mar 8, 2008)

*Marsh Death*

This article appeared approximately two years ago in the Louisians Sportsman. At present this is serious business for anyone fishing in the Gulf - look at the actual incidence rate - not green head fly transmitted but penetration of skin by flies is not good!

I build custom fishing rods and decided at that time that no one would ever fish with a cork grip with all the voids and holes in the grip.

If you would like to consider fishing rods with sealed grips please visit Rodbuilding.org and so a search on Flocked or Graphite Skin high density foam. You may be glad you ran into this : If you have any furthur questions please contact Bill Stevens - Gon Fishn Custom Rods at [email protected] or swamplandtackle.com









​​*There's a **flesh-eating** bug hiding along our coast that is easy to contact and frequently deadly. Here's one survivor's story.*​​​*By Don Shoopman*

A Lafayette outdoorsman never had a chance, really, to save the fingers on his left hand last summer because he was unaware of a killer invisible to the naked eye, a deadly bacteria that thrives in warm, quiet salt water.

If Lou Groth had known, or even suspected, he might have been able to clean his hands properly after handling shrimp late one day in early July. Or, after his ring finger started swelling the next day, go to a hospital's emergency room sooner.

What he wants to do is get the word out to other people so they know about the "bad little bug," as he calls it, that is so prevalent along the coast and a constant threat during the summer months to outdoorsmen who love to work and play in South Louisiana. 

Groth (pronounced growth), a 53-year-old geologist for Stone Energy, lived to tell about his case. Others aren't so fortunate.

Carol White Groth, his wife who was born and raised in the Lafayette area, said, "It's been a scare and we'd like to educate other people out there standing with their mouths open and wondering how that happened."

Their education was live. Here is what they hope people will learn about:

Vibrio vulnificus is a bacterium in the same family as those that cause cholera, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. It lives in warm seawater and is part of a group of Vibrios that are called "halophilic" because they require salt.

The CDC reports that Vibrio vulnificus causes infection in the skin when open wounds are exposed to warm seawater, infections that may lead to skin breakdown and ulceration. The highest incidences, according to the Infectious Disease Epidemiology Annual Report for 1997, are between May and September. 

Also, people with immune disorders are at higher risk for invasion of the organism into the bloodstream and potentially fatal complications, the CDC said.

Vibrio vulnificus can cause disease in those who eat contaminated seafood, also. Healthy people who ingest Vibrio vulnificus suffer from vomiting, diarrhea and abdominal pain while immunocompromised persons, particularly those with chronic liver disease, face a severe and life-threatening illness characterized by fever and chills, decreased blood pressure and blistering skin lesions. Vibrio vulnificus bloodstream infections are fatal about 50 percent of the time.

​Soon after Lou Groth encountered Vibrio vulnificus, his hand looked as though it had been through a meat grinder.​Comedian Ralph Begnaud of Lafayette, popular for his Cajun wit and humor, died last year from the infection within a few days after eating oysters. He was 51.

Vibrio vulnificus can be treated with an aggressive attack of antibiotics - doxycycline or a third-generation cephalosporin. 

Hospitals in New Iberia and Franklin recognize the infection for what it is immediately because there have been so many cases, or similar cases, in those areas, according to Roger St. Dizier of New Iberia. Most of the cases dealt with commercial fishermen, he said.

Generally, however, few people are aware of the microscopic killer lurking in salt water.

St. Dizier, a Shreveport native who moved to the Teche Area in 1970 and was with Groth on that fateful evening in July, said some commercial fishermen in the parishes of those respective hospitals (Iberia and St. Mary) are highly cognizant of the bacterial dangers associated with a cut on the water. St. Dizier knows a commercial fisherman who wears gloves and brings a jug of Clorox along to wash his hands ... long before the infection of Groth.

Groth was born in South Texas and has lived in Lafayette for 37 years. He didn't know anything about Vibrio vulnificus until the Fourth of July when he and St. Dizier took a week's vacation to fish and relax at the camp their families share at Cypremort Point.

Like so many people, Groth and St. Dizier went to one of the dams on Marsh Island one evening to catch bait shrimp for a fishing trip the next day in the Gulf of Mexico. The men used cast nets and picked out the crustaceans after each picturesque fling of the cast net during the last hour of daylight

"Apparently, one of the shrimp spines stuck me in the left hand when I picked them up and put them in a bucket," Groth said.

Groth steered the 23-foot Mako back after the fishing trip. He noticed the ring finger on his left hand was "a little bit swollen and a little bit sore" but didn't think much more about it.

Unbeknownst to him, the bug was doing what comes naturally. It was invading the bloodstream. but meeting resistance around the wedding ring.

They got back to the camp. St. Dizier remembers that Groth mentioned the discomfort and showed him the swelling while eating some barbecue and having a cold one or two.

"He said, 'Look at my finger, how swollen it is.' It was swollen like a sausage," St. Dizier said.

They eventually turned in for the night. But Groth was awakened about 2 o'clock in the morning by his puffy and aching hand, so he got up and took a few aspirin pills and went back to bed. Again, he didn't believe there was anything seriously wrong.

Groth had to go back to Lafayette the following morning to be with his son, Jacob, 9. He was mowing the lawn mid-morning when he turned off the machine and went inside. The ring finger was swollen so much he feared he wouldn't be able to get the ring off.

He resorted to cutting the ring.

"Once I cut it off, that's what released the bacteria into my hand. The dam was broken," Groth said.

He became very ill. Sweating and nauseous, he laid down but soon realized something was wrong, terribly wrong. In his own words, he was "sick as a dog."

A neighbor drove him to the Medical Center of Southwest Louisiana. Before 6 p.m. he was on the operating table, which he would visit for each of the next four days.

Contrary to at least one published report, Groth never was in danger of dying, his wife said.

"That never was a factor. I guess it could have been in someone not as healthy," she said.

But there were other specters and nightmares hanging over their heads, haunting them, she said.

"Of course, we were fearful of the strong possibility he would lose his hand," Carol Groth, an audiologist, said.

"What concerned us is why it affected him the way it did. On top of being concerned about his hand and fingers I was asking myself, does he have cancer, too," she said. "That way it was hard at that point. Is this the tip of the iceberg?"

She prayed. She stayed with him the full 18 days in the hospital. The first five days, which he doesn't even remember because he was medicated so heavily, were the toughest for her.

"They (doctors) were not optimistic about his fingers at any point," she said. "He had surgery daily. They'd come back and say, 'Ahh, we had to remove a little of this one.' I'd say, 'We can live with that.' They'd come back the next day and say, 'Ahh, we had to cut a little bit of that one and a little bit more of this one.'"

After the surgeries, he was transferred to Lafayette General Medical Center, which has a hyperbaric chamber that speeds the healing process. It is an airtight compartment in which oxygen under high pressure is forced into the tissues of a person undergoing treatment of poisoning, acute infections or open-heart surgery, among other treatments.

St. Dizier, system manager for Cox Cable in Iberia and St. Mary parishes, was at the camp during the first few days that his fishing buddy for more than 30 years, as well as his college roommate at USL, was in the hospital in Lafayette. He was unaware fully of the events that were unfolding.

"When he left, he said he had had a bad night," St. Dizier said. Then he learned that Groth's neighbor had rushed the sick man to the hospital.

"I still didn't put it together with the swollen finger," he said. "When I got back Saturday, my wife (Becky St. Dizier) said it was some kind of infection and he might lose his fingers. His wife told her he was going into surgery. That really took the wind out of us."

Despite the loss of some or all of the fingers on his left hand, Groth said he was "very fortunate" a doctor for infectious diseases was at the hospital and that an orthopedic surgeon asked him to see the patient with the bad hand. The antibiotics started immediately.

Color photographs of his hand show the distortion, the discolored fingers and the cuts needed to drain the hand being attacked by a bug from the marsh. The infection was stopped but not without casualties.

Groth said he is coping with the amputation of his fingers. He and his wife said he is fine mentally. Physically, he coached fall baseball a few months ago, went hunting in the fall and early winter, and is back on the job.

"He's handled it well. He has made it through and can do everything he was doing before with the fingers he has left," she said.

"I found it inconvenient but it doesn't stop me from doing anything," Groth said. Well, he confessed later during a meeting at Stone Energy, 625 Kaliste Saloom Road in Lafayette, he does have trouble buttoning the cuff on the right sleeve of his shirts.

"I haven't had a chance to go back fishing. I certainly intend to," he said.

Since that midsummer nightmare, he and his wife have engrossed themselves in learning more about Vibrio vulnificus. The Groths, who also have a daughter, Heather, 27, got information from the state and off the Internet.

"It sure is a bad little bug," he said. "Six people I know of first-hand have come in contact with the bug since I did. Four of those people died and one is in bad shape with liver problems because of the bug. You really don't stand a chance if you have an immune problem. He's in bad shape. (But) he lived. And me. 

"I just hope nobody else gets this stuff down there (around the dams at Marsh Island, or anywhere else along coastal Louisiana). It's very easy to contract in the summertime. So many people go to the dam and cast net on any given day. They don't have any idea what it is.

"Another interesting thing to come out of it is a lot of cases are reported around the Barataria area. There is a significant number of cases reported there every year."

In 1998, according to figures released in the Infectious Disease Epidemiology Annual Report, there were 11 cases reported in Jefferson and Terrebonne parishes and seven in Orleans Parish. In 1997, the largest numbers were reported in Orleans Parish (1), Jefferson Parish (7), Terrebonne Parish (5) and Calcasieu Parish (3). In 1996, it was Plaquemines (8), East Feliciana (5) and Terrebonne (4), according to reports filed with the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

A total of 937 cases of confirmed Vibrio illnesses were reported to the Department of Health & Human Services' Vibrio Surveillance System in 1997 and 1998, with 389 from five Gulf Coast states (Alabama, Florida, Louisiana, Mississippi and Texas) and 548 from 26 other states. Of 46 deaths, 41 died from Vibrio vulnificus.

The one case of Vibrio vulnificus Groth remembers most vividly is the one that got him that afternoon on Marsh Island. Hopefully, he said, others can benefit from his experience by knowing what's out there and guarding against the invisible killer.

​Copyright © 1999-2004 Louisiana Sportsman, Inc. All rights reserved.
Please contact our WebMaster if you experience problems with the website.​


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## deerspotter (Apr 8, 2008)

For those of you that are non believers,just call Captain Jesse Arsola and ask him about his experience. He will tell you his story. In fact if you see him just ask to see his scars.


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## Freshwaterman (May 21, 2004)

I can't recall the article, but a doctor involved in the studying of vibrio, was quoted as saying that the ingesting of alcohol usually was involved when someone became ill with vibrio.

He said that the toxins released by the bacteria are normally metabolized by the liver in a person whose liver isn't currently metabolizing alcohol. Without the added strain, the liver would normally easily take carry of the necrotizing toxins. However, the extra burden being placed on the liver's normal function is what creates the dangerous situation.

In other words, avoid alcohol immediately before, during, or after fishing, especially if you've been cut or scratched while out in the saltwater. He said there seems to be a direct correlation between the two.



> They got back to the camp. St. Dizier remembers that Groth mentioned the discomfort and showed him the swelling while eating some barbecue and *having a cold one or two.*


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## dennis_99 (Feb 27, 2006)

Interesting, but not interesting enought for me to avoid a little alcohol while cleaning a few fish!


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## UB (May 28, 2008)

With all that has been said and done, let me make this statement. The fisherman that this discussion started with does not have any of the "AILMENTS" that Speckled Trout mentioned. When he is fishing, he is fishing hard, and he may or may not "Have a cold one or 2". The facts are the facts. He was diognosed with having the Vibrio Flesh Eating Virus that most certainly entered his body thru the wound inflicted by a Horse fly that bit him on Tuesday afternoon by a team of doctors in Houston and Baytown Methodist Hospital System. The fevers and chills started on Wednesday afternoon on the flight back from Gulfport to Baytown. The fly bite swole up into a blister and a pain level on a scale of 1-10 as about 15. 
If it had not been for Dr. Terry being on his toes when Carl called him on the phone Wednesday night, the bacteria would have probably set in so solid that it would have quite possibly killed him. 
Carl & I have fished Salt Water all our lifes, and have never encountered anything like this. We have both worked on Shrimp Boats as teenagers. But I have no more fear of the waters now that I did Last week. When you look at the odds of this happening to you, the probability just isn't there and I am sure that as soon as he is well enough, he will be back out there on the "BIDWALK" slinging and snatching. 
According to the Doctors as of this morning, the blood is clearing up and the Flesh deteriation has stopped. It is very possible that he can go home this weekend sometime and start a long recovery. 
NEWS FLASH...I just got word that Little Brother is on his way home now. He will be checking back into the hospital next week to start the skin graft procedures.


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## MsAddicted (Jan 25, 2005)

Nobody is trying to accuse your friend of doing something wrong UB. We are just going for general education since there are alot of misconceptions out there about this bacteria and others. Its not a virus incidentally....if it were, anyone who contracted it would be in BIG trouble as antibiotics would not be able to kill it. 

His situation seems to be an odd one all the way around. The chendeleur islands are normally thought of as pristine (relatively) and not somewhere that would have a high vibrio load. Is there thought that the horsefly itself carried the bacteria and when it bit your friend he became infected that way? 

If so, thats a new and scary idea. I havent heard of it infecting people in that manner but then I am no expert either.


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## arius felis (Jun 12, 2007)

thats very good news ,thanks for the up date. soon he will be back on the water in no time.


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## thejimmster (Jul 25, 2006)

Warning - more graphic pictures in this link. I hope this keeps everyone educated about Vibrio.

http://www.5starstables.com/HarveyWebsite.htm


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## Freshwaterman (May 21, 2004)

I wasn't trying to upset anyone when I mentioned the bit about alcohol. 

It was something that I've noticed in several articles and thought that it was worth mentioning, since so many people associate "fishing" with alcohol consumption. Just be careful. I wouldn't wish this stuff on my worst enemy.


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## waterwolf (Mar 6, 2005)

Do we have anymore up-date on Carl...hope he recovers fast and gets back fishing as soon as possible....keep us posted


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## Cheech (May 28, 2008)

*Alive and kickin' !!!!*

Hi folks&#8230;.just wanted to touch base and give you an update of my condition&#8230;.



Though not a very pleasant subject I would like to share my experience with you in hopes of increasing awareness and reducing the chances of one or more of you suffering from the same thing.



Let me begin with a short personal profile&#8230;I am 44 years old, 185 lbs, very active, 1 ½ hour cardio/strength workout 5 days per week, no health issues, no stranger to the outdoors, had no visible wounds of any kind, occasional social drinker, non-smoker.



Conditions at time and location of contact were non-conducive of Vibrio. Clean, green Gulf waters, 75-78F, tidal flow, sea shell/pebble bottom, lotsa sea grass filtration.



3 days of excellent fishing with Captain Troy on the Double Trouble and 10 other friends at Isle Au Pitre&#8230;approx 20 miles off the Biloxi coast. Wade fishing at daybreak and sundown&#8230;drift fishing deeper water during the heat of the day and slack tide. Swatted horse flies the entire time!



Approx 1 hour from reaching home in Baytown, Tx I began feeling flu-like symptoms&#8230;feverish and achey all over. Also noticed a slight soreness in my right ankle&#8230;which I wrote off as one of the many horsefly bites&#8230;no big deal.



Within 3 hours of first symptoms my right ankle had swollen to the size of a cantaloupe, flu-like symptoms had worsened, fever of 103, freezing one minute and burning up the next, shaking, on a 1-10 pain scale I was tipping 15, ultimately passed-out momentarily from what I thought was pain but most probably from septic shock.



Luckily I was able to contact my doctor, Greg Terry, afterhours and he met me at the ER where he hoped for the best but on a hunch treated for the worst. Within 30 minutes of arriving at ER he started me on a "cocktail" of antibiotics targeting Strept, Staff and Vibrio Vulnificus&#8230;which in the end turned out to be the latter (and the worst). Thanks to Dr. Terry's insight I still have five toes, a foot, a leg and a life.



Once in a regular room he continued antibiotic drips and, along with ID Dr. Raul and Plastic Surgeon Dr. Moore, they concurred that surgery would be required to debrete contaminated tissue with a second surgery required 2 days later. After the second surgery I was transferred to the Houston Med Center where a team of ID doctors and Surgeons monitored my condition for 4 more days before ultimately deciding the "beast" was dead and the remaining tissue was reclaimable over time and I was released after 8 days.



So&#8230;long story short, I am back home, tending to a very large hole in my leg awaiting skin grafts, but operative word here is "leg"&#8230;I still have both of them!!! As well as my feet and my life. With out a doubt I know I am one of the lucky ones, I am extremely fortunate. Relatively speaking mine was a minor case. And I truly owe that to the expedience in which the Vibrio was diagnosed and treated. But even with a "minor" case I am looking at a minimum of 3 months recovery&#8230;hopefully back on water in time for Fall fishing Trinity !!!!



With that said&#8230;



I have read a lot about Vibrio in the past couple weeks&#8230;the facts, the myths, the opinions, the thoughts, the denials, the ideas, the personal accounts of others. Bottom line, I think I was just down right unlucky&#8230;wrong place at the right time! 10 others in my party, some with health issues that are more commonly attacked by Vibrio, fishing side by side with me, thankfully were not affected at all. 



I've also read about several different preventative measures. I don't think anyone truly knows what makes it tick yet so it is very hard to apply prevention to the unknown. I've heard of using diluted Clorox water, peroxide, Bactine, etc&#8230;before and after entering water. Though I feel these measures can't hurt I don't think they are tried and true enough to count on and feel it can be a false security. 



I have always been a non-believer that this could EVER happen to me but was proven extremely wrong! Please do not deny the fact that it CAN happen to you! Vibrio is not very picky about whom it attcks. Whether you are wade fishing a back bay, surf fishing the coast, wading ankle deep on a beach watching the sun go down, swimming in the surf, knee boarding in the bay, jet skiing the Intercoastal, pulling a fish in over the side of a boat&#8230;if you are in the warm waters of the Gulf of Mexico you CAN come in contact with Vibrio.



In closing, my unsolicited advise: I don't think there is any feasible way we can confidently protect ourselves against, nor prevent Vibrio exposure, if we choose to play in the Gulf. Our only hope for a positive outcome is FAST diagnoses and treatment. If after you have been in the water, after you have sprayed down with Bactine and wiped down with Clorox, if after you have visually inspected every scratch and bug bite, if something just doesn't feel right&#8230;tightness, soreness, swelling, fever, flu-symptoms, headache&#8230;DO NOT hesitate, don't sleep it off, don't be a tough guy, don't wait till morning, contact your doctor, head to the ER and tell them you suspect you have been exposed to Vibrio because many doctors and hospitals are still very unfamiliar with the bacteria and it's symptoms. I was lucky enough to have a doctor who is also a very avid fisherman and was hip to the signs.



Hey, we live on the Gulf Coast and can't live in a bubble so go on and enjoy your time on the water but be careful and be aware&#8230;..believe me, you don't want any of this!!!!



C'ya, 

C


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## Cheech (May 28, 2008)

Also, in the previous post I failed to thank each and everyone of you for your thoughts, concerns and prayers!!! Thanks a million...C


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## MsAddicted (Jan 25, 2005)

Wow, thanks for the update and story Cheech. Very interesting and very scary!!! You sure dont fit what we have become to think of as "the profile". And the chandeleurs, wow. Who would have thought of that as a location for vibrio, nasty stuff that it is. Glad you are home and still have both legs.


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## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

yep, your case is definately an atypical one. i'm glad you're back home and on the mend.


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## txpoboy (Feb 27, 2008)

Glad to hear your going to be OK and thanks for the update and valuble information.
Take Care


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## austinbayfisher (Jul 22, 2007)

How much do you dilute Chlorox for washing off? I just bought a bottle of chlorox and keep it on my boat, but not sure how much to dilute it and have it remain effective.


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## Cheech (May 28, 2008)

one thing I failed to mention...the Infectious Disease doctors did concur that the bacteria most probably did enter through one of the insect bites....I asked if it was possible that the fly itself was a crrier but they would not comment on that....just that the bite was the entry point....for whatever that's worth!

C


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## arius felis (Jun 12, 2007)

thanks for the update take care.


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## The Machine (Jun 4, 2007)

Take care everyone


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## MsAddicted (Jan 25, 2005)

austinbayfisher said:


> How much do you dilute Chlorox for washing off? I just bought a bottle of chlorox and keep it on my boat, but not sure how much to dilute it and have it remain effective.


Based on an article I read in one of the medical journals, the dilution factor should be 0.5 or 1 to 10 clorox to distilled water. Any stronger will cause more damage than good. Thats the dilution used to disinfect burn victims. However, you need to make it up fresh like weekly or it loses effectiveness.


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## austinbayfisher (Jul 22, 2007)

OK, that means one cup of chlorox out of the bottle, diluted with 10-20 cups of distilled water, or whatever small containers are on the boat. This is a lot of distilled water to have on the boat to make a diluted bucket of chlorox to wash in. Is using sea water as a diluent OK?



MsAddicted said:


> Based on an article I read in one of the medical journals, the dilution factor should be 0.5 or 1 to 10 clorox to distilled water. Any stronger will cause more damage than good. Thats the dilution used to disinfect burn victims. However, you need to make it up fresh like weekly or it loses effectiveness.


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## MsAddicted (Jan 25, 2005)

Distilled because its easier on the body. You dont have to make up such a large amount at once. It can be 1 to 10 anything. One tablespoon clorox to 10 of water. I personally would not use seawater as the diluent. Of course doing this is no guarantee.


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## fishin shallow (Jul 31, 2005)

Glad you are home and hope you have a quick recovery.


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## TeamJefe (Mar 20, 2007)

just from what i have read on here i'm guessing that a 19 year old who works out and runs 3 miles daily and who has a pretty stout immune system will be fine wadefishing throughout aransas bay, if i'm wrong about this please let me know since i'm fairly new to bay fishing.

thanks, 
john


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## Trouthappy (Jun 12, 2008)

*A weak organism*

I did some research on Vibrio, and it's a fairly wimpy organism easily knocked out by alcohol, bleach or hyrodgen peroxide. Two of which I kept in my boat for the slightest nick or cut while in POC for a few years. Never even had a sore hand. (I also used Neosporin at night). Of course, every minute seems to count, once Vibrio gets inside you. Wait one night before medical treatment, and it could mean your life.

Vibrio thrives in warm, salty water. The highest possible risk factor would be someone with a compromised immune system, a weak liver, with scrapes or raw spots on their feet or legs, wade-fishing in salty backwaters with little tidal flow, in August (during highest water temperatures). Vibrio
thrives in a high-salt environment, including inside a human host.

Makes you want to wear a pair of good chest waders, since they prevent Vibrio on the legs, stingrays, oyster cuts and jellyfish stings.

Not sure what else is in that water, but I became allergic to Texas bay water, my last couple of years in POC, before I left 12 years ago. It was worse in October each year, and my eyes were often swollen shut in the morning. Lower arms and legs were inflammed. I had to take Predizone a number of times. I moved to Florida, and it vanished. I visited Port Arthur last summer, and waded around in blue jeans and shoes at Sabine Pass for one hour, and it returned by midnight----back to the Predizone.The inflammation takes about two weeks to go away. Maybe I spent too many years in that water, almost 30 years getting wet up and down the Texas coast.


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## rvd (Mar 30, 2006)

Cheech-- thanks for the info. and really glad you are doing well. I don't know how I would react in your situation, but I certainly respect what you are saying and your attitude.


Trouthappy--that's odd about the Texas water affecting differently than Florida, odd but interesting. I don't really know of any waders that will protect you from a stingray, but if you could tell me where to get some I want em.......


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## Trouthappy (Jun 12, 2008)

I assumed a stingray slash across waders would protect some,
whereas a direct puncture would not. Not sure why 
Texas bay water made me allergic; I spent too many summers
walking the jetties, getting wet all the time. Maybe too
much exposure. In Florida, I can wade without waders and
even snorkel all day in shallow water with grass bottom,
looking for scallops in July-August.


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## SpecklFinAddict (Dec 19, 2004)

TLCurd said:


> So now I'm a little freaked out by reading all of this. On Sunday evening I was flyfishing down in Seabrook and had gotten out of the water for a moment. When I went to get back in, I just happened to enter in an area where the water depth changed by like two feet and misjudged my step as a result. So there I went face first into the drink and landed on some oysters with my hand (a few nice little gashes) and then two pretty deep, 5 inch cuts on my calf. Didn't think too much of it at the time, kept fishing til dark. I got home, cleaned them with some hydrogen peroxide, end of story. They look pretty bad now, but nothing I would think is out of the ordinary...until reading this. I guess it's easy to take something normal and make it into a big bad deal. You fellas think i should be alright? I certainly hope so...lol.


I would say your okay. My understanding is, it usually hits you quick. That being said, you still can get an infection from that cut. I sliced the arch of my foot on an oyster that prolly should've been stiched. The oyster went right thru the side of my wade boot like a razor knife. Hurt like hell, but never got infection thanks to Capt John having some medical grade soap on board.

An infection can be very bad too so I'd keep an eye on it, and if swelling, redness, or starts to feel warm...I'd haul *** to the doctor quick.


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## aggieflyfisherman (Jun 20, 2006)

I got hit by a stingray last summer, and contracted vibrio in my foot from it (wading the South Shoreline of West Matty). Not a pleasant experience to say the least. I was on IV antibiotics for a week and oral antibiotics for a month. The best thing to do is get to a doctor as soon as you can if anything looks out of the ordinary. It took me 2 trips to the emergency room before they decided that it was bad enough to keep me there. I'm lucky to have my foot... If you think you may have Vibrio, make sure to let them know because it took them a week to figure it out...


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## Freshwaterman (May 21, 2004)

My son was 12 years old and was pinched by a crab on his ankle it went thru his wading boot and made a about a quarter inch cut. I put peroxide and triple antibiotic cream on it right away. That night at around 0400 he was throwing up and had high fever and black blood was oozing from the cut I new right away that it had to be vibrio because he had a bad cold for several weeks that should have brought down his ammune system also the whole area around the cut was blood red. I took him to the hospital and they started him on antibiotics and addmitted him to the hospital they pulled a culture and said results would be in two days. The 1st day his whole foot turned red and swolen and the hospital called in an infectious disease doctor that started him on a different antibiotic. The next day it was all the way up to his knee and swolen and thats when the culture came back the doctor said it was the 1st time in his 30 years that he had seen or heard of two flesh eating bacteria co-habit the same wound (vibrio and aremonious). Thank god when he switched his anti biotics the 1st day it was the right on to kill the bacteria so he got a head start on it. I asked the doctor what I could have done different to help prevent it he said (and here is the misconception that most people have with this stuff) once the bug gets in the wound there is nothing you can put on it to kill it or stop it none of the creams, peroxides or 50% solutions will do it you have to go to the hospital and put an ivee in your arm for 14 days to heal it and time is of the essence. He said the one thing you can do is carry a bottle of 10 pills of Doxycyclin (antibiotic) give the person one pill every 8 hours until you can get them to a hospital. It will not kill the bug but it will slow it down and buy you some time which is everything with this bacteria. One early symptom that I learned from this is the amount of pain you have from a simple cut. His was just a very small cut but after about an hour it was throbbing and I asked him on a scale of 1 to 10 what the pain was he said a nine and was about in tears so that should aleart you to something is not normal about the wound and you should seek medical attention right away again time is of the essence with this stuff. He has since made a full recovery and is still wade fishing to this day. Hope this helps someone in the future.


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## spitfire (Jan 2, 2007)

has my prayers!!!!


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## Trouthappy (Jun 12, 2008)

Man, that's a pretty grim story. Without health insurance,
you would be screwed if you got Vibrio. No more wading for me
in Texas or Louisiana. That crab must have punctured the skin
deeply enough, to where peroxide couldn't reach it. 

I got maimed on the jetty after falling in 1978, left with a small 
oyster entirely inside the palm of my hand---but they cleaned it
out, installed a drain tube, and gave me Keflex antibiotic, which has been used on a number of my friends who were cut up while walking the jetties.
It's good medicine for oyster wounds. Luckily, no Vibrio around that day, 
or I would have lost my hand. Back then, nobody knew what it was.


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