# fly fishing elitist sport??



## crw91383

Is it just me or do a lot of people think fly fishing is an elitist sport and just for the wealthy?? I am a Houston firefighter by profession and in no way am I wealthy or elite but other than my job fly fishing is my passion. I got into this sport by accident, but never before thought it was an "elitist sport". I have friends and people that I work with roll ther eyes when I tell them I fly fish and say things like you must have a great side-job. I understand that maybe some of the equipment is expensive and some of our ideal fly fishing destinations might be a little pricey to go visit but I still think it probably cost wise is abot the same as any other form of fishing. It takes dedication and practice to learn this sport but is that not the case with most other sports. Anybody else get responses similar to mine??


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## Worm Drowner

I think that fly fishing gets a bad rap because so much has been written that reinforces the "esoteric" stereotype. I admit, it took me a long time to get over my preconceived notitions and to buy a fly rod. Once I did, I had a blast! Admittedly, there are those fly anglers who are snobs and proudly declare that they would never fish with anything but flies. My thoughts to them are "Knock yourself out, Buckwheat". I have never caught a fish that seemed to care whether or not I landed it with an $800 custom fly rod or a $20 Snoopy spincast combo; and I have done both. 

IMHO, fishing is about fun. It's about our love of the outdoors and being thankful for what the good Lord has given us. It's not about fly versus conventional tackle, expensive gear, fancy boats or name brand waders. Yes, I have some very nice equipment. I'l still bet that there are folks on here with Wally World specials who can fish circles around me every day of the week and twice on Sunday!

Good luck, tight lines and I'll hopefully see you on the water!


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## davekelly

I think a lot of the attitude you see is a hold over from the Yuppie Generation of the 90's. When fly fishing was the in thing to do.

Of the 4 rods I own, 1 is a custom made I paid a $100, another is a starter I bought for $100 reel included, the other 2 I found at a rod riot sale and paid $19.99 for 1 and $29.99 for the other. Three are name brands. All are 20+ years old and fish just as good today and they did then.

If you think you need a high dollar rig, check http://www.tenkarausa.com/. A willow pole will do the same thing.

'Worm Drowner's IMHO hits the nail on the head.


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## steelrain202

I love fly fishing have some GREAT friends in the industry. They guide and are filmmakers. But to buy quality flyfishing gear that will withstand the rigors of saltwater is almost cost prohibitive, cant really land a tarpon on a willow or bamboo rod.


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## sfronterhouse

*Fly Fishing*

I like to fly fish. I'm an elitist. I've caught tarpon on some really poor gear. Because I'm poor! So you don't have to be wealthy to be an elitist. Just go fish and enjoy the smell of the salt air. The sounds of the birds. And the taste of an ice cold beer at 6:00am.


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## Boboe

I work in the industry, and can say that many fly fishermen are ultra elitists. Look at the price of rods and gear. Look at the attitude of many fly fishermen, who look down their noses at spin fishermen or even worse at bait fishermen. For a look at the ultra-elitists, watch those who call themselves "fly casters" and not "fly fishermen."


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## bartfromcorpus

Boboe said:


> I work in the industry, and can say that many fly fishermen are ultra elitists. Look at the price of rods and gear. Look at the attitude of many fly fishermen, who look down their noses at spin fishermen or even worse at bait fishermen. For a look at the ultra-elitists, watch those who call themselves "fly casters" and not "fly fishermen."


that is one of the dumbest things i think i've ever heard anyone say around here....

we look down our noses at spin fishermen and bait fisherman because your style of fishing is lazy and boring

hmmm, ok...so you press the big black button on your *$300 shimano with custom $300 rod and $50 of power pro* just like the guy at academy showed you, then cast your 8" top water or scented gulp bait at nothing in particular and hope that something swimming by happens to be hungry for 8" of plastic...then you can take a picture of your 16-inch trout and send it in to the magazines so you'll be the cool guy at work

bait fishermen....oh my freakin god...that doesn't even have to be discussed...seriously what's the point of even getting out of bed to drown baitfish

....oh wait, you know what - we are elitists because we're better than googans like you

what industry it is you work in? the googan department at walmart? or do you sell $60K bay boats to your elitist googan buddies?


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## bamdvm

bartfromcorpus said:


> that is one of the dumbest things i think i've ever heard anyone say around here....
> 
> we look down our noses at spin fishermen and bait fisherman because your style of fishing is lazy and boring
> 
> hmmm, ok...so you press the big black button on your *$300 shimano with custom $300 rod and $50 of power pro* just like the guy at academy showed you, then cast your 8" top water or scented gulp bait at nothing in particular and hope that something swimming by happens to be hungry for 8" of plastic...then you can take a picture of your 16-inch trout and send it in to the magazines so you'll be the cool guy at work
> 
> bait fishermen....oh my freakin god...that doesn't even have to be discussed...seriously what's the point of even getting out of bed to drown baitfish
> 
> ....oh wait, you know what - we are elitists because we're better than googans like you
> 
> what industry it is you work in? the googan department at walmart? or do you sell $60K bay boats to your elitist googan buddies?


Elitism- consciousness of or pride in belonging to a select or favored group.

There's nothing wrong with taking pride in being part of a select group and it takes place among all classes of fishermen. Boat fishermen think what they do is better than pier fishermen, arty=better than bait, majek/haynie/scb=better than blue wave/kenner etc. Don't make out like fly fishermen are the elitists and everyone else is one big happy family. Bart makes some good points. The same thing happens with hunting. If you hunt with a $1200 rifle and scope that could hammer tacks at 200 yds and you shoot a deer from a blind while he is eating at a feeder from 60 yds. away, what have you accomplished, really? The same goes with anchoring up over a shell hump and chunking out a live croaker and waiting for a rod to bend. What skill set does that require? If you enjoy it that's great but don't call someone elitist because they don't see the point in it. In fact, if you take pride in being in that group, then you are an elitist too, right?


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## 2WheelFisher

bamdvm said:


> Elitism- consciousness of or pride in belonging to a select or favored group.
> 
> There's nothing wrong with taking pride in being part of a select group and it takes place among all classes of fishermen. Boat fishermen think what they do is better than pier fishermen, arty=better than bait, majek/haynie/scb=better than blue wave/kenner etc. Don't make out like fly fishermen are the elitists and everyone else is one big happy family. Bart makes some good points. The same thing happens with hunting. If you hunt with a $1200 rifle and scope that could hammer tacks at 200 yds and you shoot a deer from a blind while he is eating at a feeder from 60 yds. away, what have you accomplished, really? The same goes with anchoring up over a shell hump and chunking out a live croaker and waiting for a rod to bend. What skill set does that require? If you enjoy it that's great but don't call someone elitist because they don't see the point in it. In fact, if you take pride in being in that group, then you are an elitist too, right?


X2


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## akkdds

Fly fishing is more of an evolutionary level of one's fishing experience. Novice anglers tend to harvest (kill) as many fish as possible. As skills increase, large and then later "trophy" fish are targeted. Fly fishing is a way to up the "challenge factor" when that becomes more important than the fisherman's ego.


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## sfronterhouse

See...there's nothing wrong with being an Elitist.


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## gulfcoastal

*fly fishing*



akkdds said:


> Fly fishing is more of an evolutionary level of one's fishing experience. Novice anglers tend to harvest (kill) as many fish as possible. As skills increase, large and then later "trophy" fish are targeted. Fly fishing is a way to up the "challenge factor" when that becomes more important than the fisherman's ego.


This is exactly what fly fishing is for me. A challenge. Thats why I do it. Everyone else has nothing to do with it. This does not make me better than anyone else, but while doing it successfully it does make me feel like a better fisherman.
Gulfcoastal


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## bamdvm

akkdds said:


> Fly fishing is more of an evolutionary level of one's fishing experience. Novice anglers tend to harvest (kill) as many fish as possible. As skills increase, large and then later "trophy" fish are targeted. Fly fishing is a way to up the "challenge factor" when that becomes more important than the fisherman's ego.


This nails it. This process takes place(for most people) no matter what the endeavor. When I was little, I was just excited to go deer hunting,(insert here fishing, dove hunting, whatever). Then I was excited to kill my first deer, then I wanted to kill a buck, then I wanted to kill a BIG buck. All of these are a normal "evolution" of a passion. Now, I don't go and sit in a stand with a high powered rifle and scope and shoot deer at feeders because I've done it, and now there's no challenge in it. I started pier fishing with dead shrimp when I was 5 or 6 and have evolved through the normal phases of that passion. For me, the challenge is in the skill set required to be successful at something. I am at different phases in different endeavors but I recognize this. With dove hunting, I am in the phase of "kill piles of birds using any means necessary". I use a nice 12g. semi auto and have gotten pretty good at killing lots of birds. I have a friend that shoots a single shot 410 and regularly shoots a limit. Does this make him an elitist? maybe. But I recognize that what he does takes a more advanced skill set than what I currently possess and one day I will progress to that level. I don't think you can master fly fishing because of all the variables which come into play and that appeals to me. I can't imagine not always wanting to push yourself to the next level and just wallowing in mediocrity.


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## ghillhouse

Define elitism. It's not because we use equipment necessarily more expensive than conventional. It's not because we limit ourselves to poling skiffs, or more expensive boats. Can't be because the conventional guys don't catch more fish - just the opposite at times. And it isn't becuase we don't have friends that fish conventional - most of my CCA buds fish conventional.

My own take is that many saltwater flyfishermen probably think fishing is boring. I don't fish; I hunt, that's what got me into this sport. I like the rush of looking for fish, stalking them, and then trying to present something to them that fools them into eating it. It is a predator thing. It turns out that a fly rod is the best way to to do this with maximum stealth.

I have baitcasting and spinning rigs, but that is for when I can't flyfish, or when I am taking small children or newbies out. And it is fun, in a beer-drinking, scrooin, around sort of way. Like the difference between tournament golf and beer-golf. These are beer-golf outings.

So do I smirk a little at guys soaking bait, Gulf included, and come back with a limit of reds and trout? Yeah, a little, cause what is the challenge and fun in that? It's like bowling with the bumpers up.


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## THE JAMMER

The evolution of the sportsman is the answer- regardless of the sport: it's the increase of challenge that makes us elitists, because those calling others elitists aren't willing to take the challenge.

Whether it's shooting open sights instead of scopes; fair chase instead of feeders/high fence; Do It Yourslef instead of guided; long bows/recurves instead of compounds; wood arrows instead of graphite; single shot rifles instead of multi shot; percussion instead of center fire; flintlocks instead of percussion; plugs instead of live bait; or flies instead of anything else.

I've done them all, but I definitely get the best sense of accomplishment out of those that offer the most challenge. I love tugging on a 25# snapper on my shimano, but that doesn't hold a candle to hooking up a 25# kingfish on my 10 weight. I've shot deer out of a stand over a feeder with a scope, range finder, et al, but I've also shot them fair chase with a yew wood long bow,back quiver, and home made wooden arrows in a wilderness area. Which do you think I felt better and more proud about???

It all contributes to our sport, and if some choose to add an additional challenge to themselves because of their equipment, God bless them. If those who don't want the challenge want to call us elitist, then elitist I am, and proud of it. I would tend to think there might be just a tinge of jealousy in there.

THE JAMMER


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## Worm Drowner

My problem with some individuals is their arrogance towards those who do not fly fish. Heck, I have even seen arrogance between those who only use dry flies and those who use wets as well. Come on folks! This is fishing! Are you that insecure that you need to look down upon other anglers because they don't participate the same way you do? Thankfully, the vast majority of flyfishermen I have known and have fished with, simply enjoy the sport and the sense of personal challenge they get from fishing with a fly. They haven't an elitist bone in their bodies. I'd like to think that is the case with most fishermen in general. 

Seems to me, this debate can be summed up "De gustibus non est disputandum"


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## sfronterhouse

*Definition*

*e*


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## sfronterhouse

*Definition (take 2)*

As I define it:
1) Loading my beat up 2,002 Tarpon 140 onto my beat up jet ski trailer. Because that's what I can afford.
2) Driving my 2,004 truck down to the water. Because that's what I can afford. Still has a cassette deck.
3) Using my 2nd hand fly rod/reel set up that I purchased off of Ebay for under $250, including line. Because that's what I can afford.
4) Enjoying a nice thermos of New Orleans Chicory coffee on the way down. Because I choose to splurge.

Paddling to my destination and wondering what the POOR PEOPLE are doing.

Elitism....it's all relevant.


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## surfsideperson

here is some elite -ism.......how many guys here can honestly post up a picture of a 30 inch trout they caught on a fly rod, hell, even a 29 3/4 inch trout, on a fly rod......just asking, to me that is pretty "elite"


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## Worm Drowner

surfsideperson said:


> here is some elite -ism.......how many guys here can honestly post up a picture of a 30 inch trout they caught on a fly rod, hell, even a 29 3/4 inch trout, on a fly rod......just asking, to me that is pretty "elite"


Will a 28" rainbow trout do? I didn't have my camera when I caught my 31" BTW, he came on a white zonker in about 3.5' of water. The 31" came on a Black Ghost.

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos...63644361735_1544771715_30145113_5994123_n.jpg

Still looking for the big speck & red. I didn't take up flyfishing until I moved "Up North" for awhile......


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## Worm Drowner

Let's try this instead: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30145113&l=9e5567a17b&id=1544771715

BTW: I am 6'6" and around 300#, so the fish doesn't look as impressive as if I were Tom Cruise sized......


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## THE JAMMER

Another quick thought. The original question was, "Is the sport elitist?" I don't think the sport is elitist. It's just that some of the participants tend to think of themselves as elitists.

THE JAMMER


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## El General

Worm Drowner said:


> My problem with some individuals is their arrogance towards those who do not fly fish. Heck, I have even seen arrogance between those who only use dry flies and those who use wets as well. Come on folks! This is fishing! Are you that insecure that you need to look down upon other anglers because they don't participate the same way you do? Thankfully, the vast majority of flyfishermen I have known and have fished with, simply enjoy the sport and the sense of personal challenge they get from fishing with a fly. They haven't an elitist bone in their bodies. I'd like to think that is the case with most fishermen in general.
> 
> Seems to me, this debate can be summed up "De gustibus non est disputandum"


There are arrogant arse holes in every endeavor. Maybe bait fisherman have more of your kind of arrogant arse holes.


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## sfronterhouse

*This Thread*

I just wanted to say that I'm really impressed and excited by all of this. Usually, you see this type of drama on the Bluewater board. It's refreshing to see it here on the fly board. Anyhow, I enjoyed a nice Pinot Noir from the Burgundy region of France tonight with my rack of lamb from Colorado. See, the Burgundy region produces Pinot Noir as there is no such grape call Burgundy. And, the lamb that is grown in our country is regularly considered the finest. Primarily, because the eye of the chop is larger and it has a much less gamey flavor than its' competitors from New Zealand and Australia. I hope that doesn't sound arrogant. I think I'll go to the front porch now and have a cigarette and a can of Coors Light.


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## THE JAMMER

It's kinda like the difference between an English fox hunt, and a rocky mountain coyote hunt.

In England they say, "Tally ho the fox."

In the rockies they say, "S_ _ _! Look at that mf run."

THE "PINKIE IN THE AIR" JAMMER


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## dsim3240

I agree with the others, most fishermen got through an evolution, from cactching any fish, to the most fish, to the largest fish. At some point, many will move on to the fishing experience as being more important. For me it's not how many, or how big, but how I caught them that matters, and I have been that way sense I was 15. That is why I like the fly rod. I find it very satifing to catch one 20" Red on a fly rather than a limit on "Gulps".
From an equipment standpoint in any sport you can spend as much or as little as you want. Do the $700 rods cast better than the $100's; YES. But do you need the $700 rod to catch fish; NO. So buy the best quality equipment that you can afford but don't worry about keeping up with the other guys.


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## HillCountryBasser

Kinda funny...I was just talking about this with a buddy of mine from Wyoming earlier today. He's a hardcore flyfisherman and grew up fishing the streams and rivers all over that part of the country. 

Its interesting how things have changed in fly fishing over the last decade or two. It used to be more of an "old rich man's sport"...with a lot fewer companies out there manufacturing equipment. As the younger folks started getting into it, new products burst into the marketplace that modernized the sport and made it "cool"...brands like Sage, Simms, Fishpond, Ross, etc. People started switching from vests to chest packs...wearing UPF fishing shirts...Buffs...baseball caps, etc. 

I don't think I'd call it an elitist sport...not any more than bass fishing or inshore fishing. Seriously...think about it...I'm sure we all know someone, or several people, that fish one way and won't consider fishing any other way. I have several bass fishing buddies that won't even consider going to the coast to fish...they are bass anglers through and through...almost to the point of being snobby about it, if you could imagine! They think of redfish as carp. 

Same with hunting...some bowhunters think that gun-hunters are cheating. Some gun-hunters think that bowhunters are elitists. Its simply 2 different breeds within the same sport...two different ways to accomplish the same goal. 

I'm still very new to flyfishing, after having been a hardcore bass fisherman all my life, and a fairly avid inshore fisherman as well. Ultimately, as mentioned before, I got into it for the added challenge. Same reason I got into bowhunting a couple years ago. Just adding a new challenge to the same routine.


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## Capt Mike Cook

surfsideperson said:


> here is some elite -ism.......how many guys here can honestly post up a picture of a 30 inch trout they caught on a fly rod, hell, even a 29 3/4 inch trout, on a fly rod......just asking, to me that is pretty "elite"


This one was 28 1/2". I don't consider it elite nor do I consider the sport elite.


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## sfronterhouse

http://www.splendad.com/ads/show/362-Grey-Poupon-Pardon-Me


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## bamdvm

What fly is this?


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## impulse

Elitist? Follow the money. 

Of course "they" would like you to believe that $600 fly rod is better than the $30 rod from Academy. That's how they make their money. Just like $1,200 golf clubs, $2,500 shotguns, $350,000 fishing boats, $500 spinning reels, $10,000 watches and- well you get the idea. And once someone has forked out those bucks, it's tempting to look down on lesser equipment to feel better about spending that kind of money.

I import and sell fly rods in the Rockies. I have bought Sages, Loomises, Redingtons, an All Star, and other $300-700 rods as samples. One of the rods I fish with most is my $30 rod from Academy (Wright and McGill Eagle Claw brand- how's that for low brow?) I like it because it feels good. Period. Otherwise, I fish with my own rods, and the high dollar rods sit on the shelf.

20 years ago, you had to pay over $150 for a machined fly reel, and a "good" one cost upward of $300. You could get a cheap stamped one for less, but it was better called a line holder than a reel- and would scrape if you applied any pressure to them. Same with graphite rods. A decent fly rod cost upwards of $150, and you could drop a month's salary on a high end rod. 

Sourcing in China has changed all that- another topic for another day. (Before you blast me, look at the reel foot of your favorite Shimano- you won't find "Made in USA" on any of them that I'm aware of.)

Today, you can get a nice machined reel for $60 or a nice cast one for $30 and rods as low as $30-50 that compare favorably with the ones available years ago. 

Let's just say that very serviceable fly fishing equipment is now well within the budgets of a lot more people than it was when I was getting started. In fact, you can get set up for successful fly fishing for the same it would cost you to buy a nice conventional unit. 

If fly fishing looked too expensive for you in the past, take another look. If you think you need ninja casting skills to be a good fly fisherman, I'll tell you I catch the majority of my fish within 30' from the end of my rod. Try it. You may get hooked like so many of us have.


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## Capt Mike Cook

bamdvm the fly is a Sand Flea tied by Ron Head in Rockport


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## shallowist

Capt Mike Cook said:


> This one was 28 1/2". I don't consider it elite nor do I consider the sport elite.


That's a heck of a fish for an old Baytown guy... Wish I had one that big on fly Mike. I think that you are in a elite group now, that's elite, not elitist. Will try to make it down your way this winter to look for a few of those spotted ghosts. Look you up when I'm there.


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## bamdvm

Capt Mike Cook said:


> bamdvm the fly is a Sand Flea tied by Ron Head in Rockport


Recipe?


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## mcmahanb

I think there's a reason so many poems, books and articles are written about fly flying. Because it's fun! Once you get a couple of nice well received books written about the subject, then all of a sudden its "elitist."

I use fishing guides at least four times a year and the fly fishing guides I found were cheaper than the fishing guides on Galveston Bay. This may not be true everywhere, but it has been true in my experience. The issue with us "coasters" is its expensive getting to a good fly fishing spot. (unless of course you fly fish for reds and trout)

So, go fly fishing and enjoy, and remember, You're not just "standing in a river waving a stick."


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## Gottagofishin

I like anything elitist so I took up flyfishing.

Seriously, I do love to fish and I will go with the evolutionary theory. I am a relative novice to fly fishing, but I like it because it is so engaging in everything from tying your own flies, to stalking the fish, to making the perfect cast for the conditions. 

It is similar in complexity and skill to golf. I like the challenge of knowing that no matter how good I get, there is always improvement to be had. Besides, there is a lot of cool stuff you can buy. 

Admitedly, I do still fish with regular gear, but I haven't soaked bait in at least four years.


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## Tailshot

Worm Drowner said:


> Let's try this instead: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30145113&l=9e5567a17b&id=1544771715
> 
> BTW: I am 6'6" and around 300#, so the fish doesn't look as impressive as if I were Tom Cruise sized......


Nice chromer, dude. I'm glad neither you or Capt. Mike are holding your stick in your teeth like alot of bugslingers do.

It's just another component of a great sport. Fly fishing isn't the end-all, be-all, it's just a fun challenge. Like all fishermen, you can spend a ****-load of money on a Sage rod and a Tibor reel, or you can get something that works almost as good for 1/4th of the cost...depends on what you want.

The important thing is that YOU enjoy what you are doing!


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## Flaco

El General said:


> There are arrogant arse holes in every endeavor. Maybe bait fisherman have more of your kind of arrogant arse holes.


I've met more great people through my love of fly fishing than any other activity that I partake in. I choose to fish with a fly rod. I do appreciate well made gear. I love seeing tailing fish as the sun is coming up. I hate it when a d-bag in an over-powered boat sees it fit to run the shore line that I am poling to "see if there are any fish there". No bait guides have ever felt the need to ask how my day of fishing was at the boat ramp. Other skiff owners do almost every trip. So elitist? No. Close knit? Yes. I get info every other day from friends that are fly guides and I appreciate it.


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## IXP Rods

My love for fly fishing started about 14 years ago, but I opted to not participate at the time, because I knew how addictive it would become. I now wish I would have started way back when, so I'd actually be halfway decent at it now. heheh...

But seriously, the tackle world has made fly fishing relatively inexpensive to do now. Like Flaco, I like high quality gear and tackle, but I've always been that way. Put my first Calcutta on layaway when I was still in high school and paid on it for a couple of months becuase I didn't want my gear to fail. If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right the first time; correct? I'm not out there everyday due to my day job, so on the days that I DO get to take part in what I really love, performance of my equipment is key to ensure that the only frustration I experience is in my lack of ability to find fish willing to eat my flies. 

Also like Flaco stated, some of the nicest people I know are those in the fly fishing realm. Not saying that all fly fisherman are gentlemen or gentle ladies (there are some pricks out there), but seems that we're all a little more willing to help each other out with recipes, tips, hints, etc. Dunno what it is, but I almost fly fish exclusively now.


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## MigllaFishKilla

who can pee further? lol. good responses on here. no sport is an elitist sport, rather some who participate in them would like to think of themselves as elite. i would like to pursue fly fishing in the future and wouldnt think twice about it because some guy told me it was an elitist sport. but for now ill stick with the k-rado.


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## Capt Mike Cook

shallowist said:


> That's a heck of a fish for an old Baytown guy... Wish I had one that big on fly Mike. I think that you are in a elite group now, that's elite, not elitist. Will try to make it down your way this winter to look for a few of those spotted ghosts. Look you up when I'm there.


Steve, January is peak, but anytime between Thanksgiving and the end of February are good for big trout.


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## Capt Mike Cook

BAMDVM , I don't tie so I have no idea about the receipe. Send me a PM and I'll send Ron Head's contact info to you. He's a great guy and I'm sure he will help.


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## baron von skipjack

bla bla bla bla.....you catch yours how you want..i'll catch mine how i want,,,see which one,,,tastes best...GIGS,,,DONT COUNT


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## Worm Drowner

MigllaFishKilla said:


> who can pee further?


Just so long as my Noconas don't get wet, I don't worry about it too much!!


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