# 2015 Dargel HDX Kat 250 build....



## twelfth man (Sep 1, 2005)

For anyone interested, I will be posting pictures throughout the build of my new Dargel Kat. The hull was sprayed this past weekend. It will be a 12 week process (ish) from this point on, and I will post pictures along the way. This rig will be completely customized to fit my family and fishing style. I realize the set up will not be for everyone, and I appreciate that everyone has their own opinion. This thread is not intended for debate (although some will undoubtedly try to turn it into that). So check in occasionally if you have a desire to do so.


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## Puddle_Jumper (Jun 30, 2014)

I will be watching.. Never too old to learn something  Congrats on the build !


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## jdusek (Apr 7, 2006)

I like watching boat builds. A buddy of mine just got his 25 a few weeks ago.


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## aggiefishinDr (Sep 1, 2005)

I will be watching. I have my eye on a new Kat in the near future!


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## Retired Navy (Jan 6, 2010)

Congrats! It's a nerve racking process, but well worth the reward of having YOUR boat how you want it. Just finished mine last Friday. Good luck and have fun on the water.


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## Aggieross05 (Nov 1, 2011)

congrats...I recently purchased a 23hdx and love it...lots of aggie's with Dargel Kats...Gig'em


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## SailandSkiCenter (Jun 23, 2014)

Oh man, this is the good stuff! Congratulations on an amazing boat! We have 3 25's and 2 23's on order ourselves.


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## Bearkat73 (Aug 5, 2009)

Congrats looking forward to the pictures.


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## boltmaster (Aug 16, 2011)

Very nice........you can put a baby cat in there for a dingy


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## twelfth man (Sep 1, 2005)

Bolt, the Baby Cat was a great boat, but I missed the ability to get all four girls and mamma on the boat.


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## TexasFlatsFisher (May 7, 2010)

Awesome boats and great people down there at Dargel. Ill be keepin up with this one.


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## FLATSDADDY (Mar 25, 2008)

I personally think that Dargel could reduce that boat's draft by a couple of inches by using the resin infusion process. 

A lot less resin and final hull weight = l less draft and higher speed. 

The process is also known to produce castings of increased stiffness and rigidity.


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## twelfth man (Sep 1, 2005)

Stringers and fuel tank box.


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## texasislandboy (Apr 28, 2012)

Funny to still see wood being used in boats over 50,000$ That being said my boat has a wood deck and its 20 years old.


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## boltmaster (Aug 16, 2011)

twelfth man said:


> Bolt, the Baby Cat was a great boat, but I missed the ability to get all four girls and mamma on the boat.


I hear you on that. I had to move up to a larger ride last year......but I miss my BC

Congrats on your dargel, it's going to be nice


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## Yellow Mouth Chaser (Jan 8, 2008)

Looking at that last pic, I hope they straighten that rigging tube to the front deck out. That would suck to have a bow in it where water just sits on the wires and corrodes them. I really like these boats and hope yours turns out looking better than the others.


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## Durtjunkee (Mar 23, 2007)

I'm not a boat designer, but I am a structural designer. I see the fuel tank box, and the corresponding gap in the 2 center stringers, and I dont like it at all. That leaves a major weak point in the longitudinal rigidity of the hull.


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## GulfCoast1102 (Dec 30, 2013)

texasislandboy said:


> Funny to still see wood being used in boats over 50,000$ That being said my boat has a wood deck and its 20 years old.


I had the same thought. Dargel makes a fine boat, and i sure wish i had money to buy one of their Kats. That being said, i believe i would raise hell if i paid that kind of money for a boat, and the builder used wood. Composite products should be their "go to" material.


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## jcambron3P (May 19, 2011)

Multi million dollar sport fishing yachts are still made with wood....


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## GulfCoast1102 (Dec 30, 2013)

jcambron3P said:


> Multi million dollar sport fishing yachts are still made with wood....


Yep. And some folks still use type writers instead of modern computers.


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## bigfishtx (Jul 17, 2007)

Durtjunkee said:


> I'm not a boat designer, but I am a structural designer. I see the fuel tank box, and the corresponding gap in the 2 center stringers, and I dont like it at all. That leaves a major weak point in the longitudinal rigidity of the hull.


Should be far enough back not to cause any problems don't you think?


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## Durtjunkee (Mar 23, 2007)

bigfishtx said:


> Should be far enough back not to cause any problems don't you think?


Not IMO.


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## twelfth man (Sep 1, 2005)

*She is born.....*

Floor is complete and she is out of the mold.


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## twelfth man (Sep 1, 2005)

*Floor*

Thought I added this picture to the previous post.


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## Quackerbox (Feb 6, 2006)

Curious, the step lookin things near the bow are for???

Congrats on the new sled


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## fishin shallow (Jul 31, 2005)

to eliminate cat sneeze?


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## [email protected] (Jun 25, 2005)

jcambron3P said:


> Multi million dollar sport fishing yachts are still made with wood....


Yet there are quite a few yacht builders that are switching over to all composite construction now. The composite technology out now doesn't really leave any excuses anymore to not use all composite construction beyond cost. I think it's coming time that all Texas bay boat makers switch over to all composite materials or they will start to lose sales.


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## Jumanji (Jan 31, 2013)

What areas of the Dargel cat are wood?

Some of the sailboat manufacturers have been vacuum bagging hulls for many years now. That would get rid of some of the resin weight as well. And still allow them to do the layup the same way.


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## dlbpjb (Oct 9, 2009)

Love watching new builds, subscribed....


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## whistlingdixie (Jul 28, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Yet there are quite a few yacht builders that are switching over to all composite construction now. The composite technology out now doesn't really leave any excuses anymore to not use all composite construction beyond cost. I think it's coming time that all Texas bay boat makers switch over to all composite materials or they will start to lose sales.


The cost of good composites that are as strong as the marine grade wood used now if very expensive and will drive the price up a lot on the Texas built boats. Most of your top end yacht builders are still using wood for strength and will continue to use it for strength purposes.


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## greenfinder (Aug 24, 2005)

whistlingdixie said:


> The cost of good composites that are as strong as the marine grade wood used now if very expensive and will drive the price up a lot on the Texas built boats. Most of your top end yacht builders are still using wood for strength and will continue to use it for strength purposes.


I am going to have to disagree on the cost comment as there are already TX boat builders that have been building 100% wood free for years...Tran is one of them and they are priced right in line with the TX wood boat builders. I personally have no problem with wood but the wood boats are not discounted to the non wood boats.


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## [email protected] (Jun 25, 2005)

Wood doesn't scare me in a boat and I would own a Haynie no problem but wood does scare a lot of people especially the guys that are coming from owning a boat with a soft floor from rotten wood or guys that have heard the stories of wood rotting in a boat. I know that the wood these days used to build boats is pretty much impermeable to water and won't rot but a lot of people don't believe that. I was just saying that with more and more builders switching to all composite, I think that sales will start to go down for the bay boat makers that still use wood. I saw a demonstration one time at Haynie from the guy that sold boat panel marine grade wood and he cut holes in it and left it in a bucket of water and weeks later water had still not made the inside wet where the holes were. So yeah the wood used nowadays to build boats is a whole lot better suited to never rot. Dargel builds a fantastic boat and the little bit of wood used in construction shouldn't scare anyone away. I do think that in the next few years that most other boat makers will also switch to all composite materials because the majority of bay boats will be all composite and people won't want a boat that's not composite


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## Dargel (Nov 1, 2007)

twelfth man said:


> For anyone interested, I will be posting pictures throughout the build of my new Dargel Kat. The hull was sprayed this past weekend. It will be a 12 week process (ish) from this point on, and I will post pictures along the way. This rig will be completely customized to fit my family and fishing style. I realize the set up will not be for everyone, and I appreciate that everyone has their own opinion. This thread is not intended for debate (although some will undoubtedly try to turn it into that). So check in occasionally if you have a desire to do so.


I thought I would chime in on this since it has obviously turned into a debate just like thelfth man said in his original post.

For some clarification, Dargel will be happy to build any of our models in an all composite version. It does add 10% to the price of the hull only. The reason why most of our customers choose the Aqua Tech Aqua Ply is that it comes with a lifetime warranty against rot or manufacturers defects (i.e. delamination, warping, etc.). We have been using this product since 1998 and have never had an issue with it on any boat. The composites out there will only warranty against rot. If we build an all composite version we only use a product that will retain screws and have the strength that we require. There are composites out there that we will not use because it would be an injustice to our customers and an inferior product.

We have thought about switching to all composite in the past. We offer it on all models and build only one or two a year per customer request out of all the boats we build. That makes it hard for us to justify the change on every boat because obviously the demand is not there. If we see those numbers change then it is something we will consider.

As far as the strength of the boat. Go run one and you will see that they are built to last! The area where the fuel tanks are has stringers that continue underneath the tray for the tanks. The tunnel is also twice the thickness as the other areas of the hull so that it becomes part of the stringer system. Since 1937 we have been building the best boats that we can and if we didn't we wouldn't still be in business.

Every person is different and we know that each customer has specific items that want on their boat. We appreciate our customers and consider them part of our Dargel family. The best compliment that we can get is seeing our customers with their friends and family enjoying our boats.


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## Jumanji (Jan 31, 2013)

Can you estimate how much weight is saved, for an all-composite Dargel 23 Kat? That is really the only advantage I can think of.


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## twelfth man (Sep 1, 2005)

Quackerbox said:


> Curious, the step lookin things near the bow are for???
> 
> Congrats on the new sled


The cutouts are ventilated steps, the openings draw air in to break the suction of water against the hull. The relief allows the boat to run with less resistance and achieve higher speeds and better fuel economy.


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## Mt. Houston Marine (Jun 15, 2011)

twelfth man said:


> The cutouts are ventilated steps, the openings draw air in to break the suction of water against the hull. The relief allows the boat to run with less resistance and achieve higher speeds and better fuel economy.


*Actually what I think he is talking about is the louvers between the hulls. They are in the front of the tunnel.*
*These are part of the reason why the boat will not "cat sneeze" .*

*Actually, them Stringers in question are not the main stringers. The main stringers are located in each hull, like most boats that have 2 stringers. The ones in the middle that go under the fuel cell box, are there for extra structural integrity and also to support the massive decks the boat has. These "middle stringers" are bonded to the front and rear decks adding strength to the hull as well as support for the decks.*

*This is a solid boat. No shuttering when you fall of the back side of a big wave... Just cut and go !!!!!*


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## Quackerbox (Feb 6, 2006)

Mt. Houston Marine said:


> *Actually what I think he is talking about is the louvers between the hulls. They are in the front of the tunnel.*
> *These are part of the reason why the boat will not "cat sneeze" .*


Yeh, those are the ones Im talking about. Ones tween two bulls up near the bow.

Thanks


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## southpaw (Feb 25, 2009)

Jumanji said:


> Can you estimate how much weight is saved, for an all-composite Dargel 23 Kat? That is really the only advantage I can think of.


My guess on a boat that big, would be not that much depending on how you rigged it. I think there's some myth out there about how much weight you save going with high density foam or polymer boards over marine ply. Where you're going to see the biggest weight saving is in smaller technical poling skiff type boats that are rigged really simply. As you start to get into larger boats, I think there's some law of diminishing results.

Once you get into big boats like a 23 kat, I would think you would have to start using thicker foam and/or more dense fiber glass weaves. Also, high density foam, coosa, and the likes all have to be glassed on both sides to give it rigidity. In a 23' boat, that's a ton of resin, which is where a lot of weight comes from. With marine plywood, especially quality stuff like Marinetek, it may not be necessary to glass both sides of it in some areas (i.e. the deck). If anything they might just put a coating of epoxy on the non-glassed side to make sure it's completely sealed. Another thing is you can't screw into a lot of the foams out there so you have to either put pads/ extra hardware where you want to mount things. This means more glass and more weight and the way people rig there boats now a days this could start adding up. With marine ply you just screw it in and 5200 it. Screw retention may not be an issue however depending on how they build the cap, but I wouldn't think making a one piece injected cap wouldn't be too feasible on a big boat, I could be wrong. I guess you could use some of the polymer boards out there but those are significantly more expensive than marine ply.

At the end of the day, I'm sure if you compared a bare traditionally built 23 Kat, with a bare "all-composite" 23 Kat, the latter would be lighter, but I'm not sure if it would justify a 10% increase in price. To me though, the reason you would want to make the boat lighter would be mainly for draft, hole shot, etc. But if shallow draft is your goal, I'm not too sure a Kat is what you'd go with anyways. I'd rather save the 10% and put more into the motor and prop. I guess efficiency is another issue, but again in larger boats that are rigged with T-tops, sound systems and the works, I'm not sure how big of a difference you're going to see.

All in all, if I were buying a small technical poling skiff I'd want to go the no wood route, but with most bay boats I think using quality marine ply (Aquatek, Marinetek, etc) is just fine. Yeah saying there's no wood in the boat sounds sexy, but I'm not sure it's justifiable in all cases. What I would like to see is more Texas builders going the vacuum infusion route. From what I understand this can make pretty big differences in weight and ensures proper wet out/ bonding with whatever material you're using. Plus it uses less resin so builds should be cheaper. I'm not doubting the benefits of no wood, but I also ain't scurred of marine ply.


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## Run_aground12 (May 2, 2012)

Wood is really not any heavier than the composites they use and the nidacore by the time it is reinforced with fiberglass


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## patwilson (Jan 13, 2006)

Any updates???


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## twelfth man (Sep 1, 2005)

patwilson said:


> Any updates???


I will have some pictures possibly as soon as tomorrow. The aluminum work is just about ready for powder-coating and the seat cushions have been started. Stay tuned, and I will post pictures as soon as I can.


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## Hou-Chap (Nov 10, 2004)

Although interesting discussion, I'm pretty sure the OP has weighed the pros/con's of the materials going into his boats construction prior to forking over the dough to have it built. Certainly appreciate him taking the time to post up pics, I always enjoy following the different build threads.


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## twelfth man (Sep 1, 2005)

*A little update for those still watching....*

Making progress.....


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## Stuart (May 21, 2004)

You composite only fans _do_ know that saturated fiberglass can wick water and delaminate right?


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## twelfth man (Sep 1, 2005)

*Next update*

She is progressing along.....


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## aggiefishinDr (Sep 1, 2005)

Looking good!!!!!! Thanks for the update


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## [email protected] (Jun 25, 2005)

Looking good. I bet the waiting is starting to hurt a bit but will be worth it in the end.


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## twelfth man (Sep 1, 2005)

*The wait*



[email protected] said:


> Looking good. I bet the waiting is starting to hurt a bit but will be worth it in the end.


James, fortunately I have been so busy with work lately that it has distracted me nicely. But yes, now that she is starting to look like a boat, it will get tougher from here on out.


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## jdusek (Apr 7, 2006)

I like that color.


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## twelfth man (Sep 1, 2005)

*A couple quick update pics....*

A little bling.


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## twelfth man (Sep 1, 2005)

*A few more.....*

About to get powder-coated black.


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## kenny (May 21, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> Yet there are quite a few yacht builders that are switching over to all composite construction now. The composite technology out now doesn't really leave any excuses anymore to not use all composite construction beyond cost. I think it's coming time that all Texas bay boat makers switch over to all composite materials or they will start to lose sales.


By definition, plywood is a composite.


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## twelfth man (Sep 1, 2005)

*Starting to look a bit more finished.*

Soon...


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## twelfth man (Sep 1, 2005)

*A few more....*

....


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## jreynolds (Jul 19, 2010)

Nice looking boat. I like the idea of the rub rail protectors where it touches the goal posts.


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## Hou-Chap (Nov 10, 2004)

Sweet looking rig, thanks for sharing the pics. I bet its exciting seeing it all come together.


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## twelfth man (Sep 1, 2005)

*Getting real...*

Hou Chap, would you believe today was the first day I saw it in person? I live 20 miles from the Dargel headquarters and have been so busy with work and doing daddy things that I hadn't been able to sneak down for a peek. But yes, now I am getting pretty excited.


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## AlwaysWorkin (Jul 30, 2013)

That looks awesome. I really like the color of the webbing and I definetly like the motor


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## RedXCross (Aug 7, 2005)

Really an incredible boat.


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## twelfth man (Sep 1, 2005)

*Final stretch......*

Our new toy will be done this week. The painful irony is that we have family Halloween obligations all weekend and cannot pick it up until next week. To make matters worse, my friends at Dargel are being very stingy with the pictures (for good reason).


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## patwilson (Jan 13, 2006)

That's going to be one sweet sled!

Congrats...


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## Aggieross05 (Nov 1, 2011)

That thing is going to be a beast...looks great


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## twelfth man (Sep 1, 2005)

*It's a wrap!*

Well, here she is. Again, this boat was customized for my needs and wants. I have four daughters, so keeping Mamma and the girls comfy is a top priority. I could not be happier with the way she turned out or the people at Dargel. I would highly recommend working with Miriam and Cleve Ford at Dargel. First class service.


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## twelfth man (Sep 1, 2005)

*The last few....*

Ironically, we have so many Halloween plans that I can't even splash her until next weekend.


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## fishin shallow (Jul 31, 2005)

Came out great. Congrats.


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## tamucc04 (Jun 21, 2011)

Looks awesome! I love all the seating. Think that is a prefect set up for a boat that size.


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## Reeldeal16 (Jul 5, 2014)

Truly a beautiful boat! Cleve along with all the dargel staff put together a great team! I can't wait for mine to get started on hopefully this coming month! I've been waiting since July when I put my order in! I'm anxious about my new 250 Kat along w/ my new Evinrude Gen 2 outboard! Therfore, I know the feeling of having to wait!


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## speck trout chaser (Jun 22, 2011)

Congrats on a fine rig!!! Is the Basket in the back for your wet wading gear???


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## aggiefishinDr (Sep 1, 2005)

Looks Awesome!!! They did a great job. That seems like the perfect layout for your family.


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## twelfth man (Sep 1, 2005)

The basket in the back is either for a) my wading gear or b) the girls' flip flops and sundries when we are out swimming or C) my ditch bag and anything else I might need in an emergency offshore.

Basically, anything that I don't want flying around or need access to can be stowed in there.


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## twelfth man (Sep 1, 2005)

The three Yeti's are all dry storage. There is PLENTY of other storage for wet stuff.


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## RubiconAg (Aug 20, 2009)

I thought the basket was the anchor box! I hate having a **** milk crate on deck but I don't want to ding up a good storage compartment.


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## DCAVA (Aug 5, 2013)

Beautiful boat!! Congrats!!


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## okmajek (May 29, 2012)

Now that's a family boat!! congrats it is really nice !!


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## yellowskeeter (Jul 18, 2008)

Nice!!

www.g-spotservices.com


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## [email protected] (Jun 25, 2005)

WOW that thing turned out awesome and has tons of creature comforts. It will be a fishing and cruising machine and all passengers will be super comfortable. That's a huge boat and you took advantage of the room it has perfectly. Congrats on the new boat.


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## twelfth man (Sep 1, 2005)

*She floats!*

I finally had the opportunity to splash the new Kat for the first time yesterday. What an amazing boat! I have owned three shallow water boats, and none of them came close to the overall performance of this rig. For anyone that knows what it looked like off shore yesterday, we went from that extreme to a shallow flat that I would not have ever gone across had the Dargel representative with me not insisted upon it. It was almost comical how easy this boat went across that flat. This boat will do it all. I cannot wait to get back out there and get to know this boat better.


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## ReelWork (May 21, 2004)

Awesome setup and really like the details with the cooler/seats and such. Congrats!


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## jdusek (Apr 7, 2006)

Very nice, love the seating. Only one question did you ever think about putting those seats up from to have a flip flop back? That way you could sit there and fish by flipping the seat back inwards.


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## twelfth man (Sep 1, 2005)

*cushion seats up front*

jdusek, we actually considered that option, as well as a few others. In the end, this was the option that mamma and the girls liked best. Once the oldest two go off to school, we may actually pull the seats out altogether. It will just depend on how many kids we still entertain on the boat at that time. For fireworks, sunset and dolphin watching, this set up will be very useful. And I will still have PLENTY of room to fish for the boats other intended use.


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## Coastline Marine (Jan 27, 2008)

Congrats Trent!! I know you had a lot of input and laid it out just for you.

-Cole


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## SailandSkiCenter (Jun 23, 2014)

That came out great, congratulations to you and your family, look forward to seeing it person at this year's Dargel Owner's tournament. 

It's always fun running the 250 Dargel Kat with new owner's/prospective owners because of what the boat is truly capable of doing, it always seems to amaze people.


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## twelfth man (Sep 1, 2005)

*Coastline*

Thanks, Cole. You know first-hand that this boat process/plan was about a year in the making. So to finally have it is very nice. Hit me up next time you are on the island.


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## Reeldeal16 (Jul 5, 2014)

So what kind of numbers are you getting out of that nice sled with that 250 ss? Are you breaking the 50 mph mark with all that extra weight?


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## twelfth man (Sep 1, 2005)

*Numbers*

Reeldeal, I have only had it in the water for about three hours. During that time, I had my 10 year old daughter with me, so I wasn't exactly in speed testing mode. I will be happy to post some numbers when I get back out there by myself. I'm not a speed freak, but I am guessing based on my test rides prior to my purchase that I will get about 50 on this at about 5000. The extra weight didn't seem to affect the ride much at all.


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## Reeldeal16 (Jul 5, 2014)

Right right! Well, beautiful beautiful boat! I saw it at the dargel last week an I was impressed! I have mine on back order hopefully in December they will start on it. Anyhow, congrats on your new boat!


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