# I know what ur thinking, but I've gotta ask a Gamewarden question?



## Neck-deep (Jun 27, 2007)

Here's the situation. I shot a deer legally on public land! :cop: (Don't laugh!). I brought the deer to the truck to get it ready for cleaning and the game warden showed up. He already knows me since I'm a local hunter (I run into him every year so it's no big deal) and asked me a couple of questions like where did I kill it and how did it happen and so forth. So I told him this information since I have nothing to hide. Everything was going smooth as it normally does when we run into eachother. The tag was filled out correctly and everything was fine. Before he left he collected a blood/tissue sample and said he was doing this just incase a landowner stumbled upon blood on there property.

Can they take these samples without probable cause?

Has this ever happened to you?


----------



## bigfishtx (Jul 17, 2007)

Why not?

Sounds like a prudent thing to do as far as I am concerned.


----------



## Neck-deep (Jun 27, 2007)

Because I'm curious. That's why. If they can then no harm done.


----------



## bigfishtx (Jul 17, 2007)

If you kill a game animal they have the right to determine if the animal was taken legally. 
Now if had just been driving through the area, then, they may have needed probably cause to investigate whether you had taken any game legally.


----------



## Neck-deep (Jun 27, 2007)

He ran into me while I was skinning the deer at my truck which is 4 miles away from my hunting spot.


----------



## troutslayer (Feb 7, 2006)

dont think the GW needs probable cause


----------



## M16 (May 28, 2008)

I don't know. But I sure wouldn't like it and would let him know my feelings.


----------



## rrp (Oct 24, 2009)

They can take blood samples and hair as needed. Don"t take it personally they are following rules to ensure that everyone that any and all game is harvested legally. I am 100 percent sure the game warden did not mean to offend you, he was just doing his job.


----------



## ROBOWADER (May 22, 2004)

So the wardens will spend the money on a DNA test to make sure the animal was killed legally?????


----------



## RobaloSunrise (Jun 10, 2011)

That is a good question and I would argue that unless I am suspected of committing a crime then there is no need to take a sample. If I am being accused of committing a crime arrest me and the collect your evidence. Law enforcement officers are allowed to lie to you and will frequently ask for your permission to something in a way which seems as if they have the right to do it legally. I would like to know what a lawyer or someone well versed has to say on the matter. 

Here is scenario, say you shoot a deer legally. It runs and in it's panic it runs into a fence. The force of the impact causes lots of blood and some tissue to be transferred to the other side of the fence even though the animal was propelled back onto the correct side. With this blood sample could someone say you shot it on the other side and drug it over the fence?


V/R
J


----------



## rrp (Oct 24, 2009)

ROBOWADER said:


> So the wardens will spend the money on a DNA test to make sure the animal was killed legally?????


Yes. The means justify the end, we all keep our hunting rights and privileges.


----------



## M16 (May 28, 2008)

rrp said:


> I am 100 percent sure the game warden did not mean to offend you, he was just doing his job.


How could that not offend you? He needs to find blood on a place first. Then start taking blood samples.


----------



## RobaloSunrise (Jun 10, 2011)

troutslayer said:


> dont think the GW needs probable cause


Yes they need probable cause. However what constitutes probable cause is always in debate.

V/R
J


----------



## Little-bit (Oct 19, 2005)

Maybe the warden had a call from someone in the area saying they saw someone on their property and later heard a shot etc. The warden could have been covering all the basis. I would have felt as if I was being wrongfully acused.


----------



## rrp (Oct 24, 2009)

A game warden doesn't need a warrant to walk on your place and he doesn't need one to collect blood and hair samples from a game animal. The deer legally still belongs to the people of the state of Texas ( if shot in Texas ) until it gets processed. .


----------



## RobaloSunrise (Jun 10, 2011)

This falls under the whole when is it wise to complain about your food at a restaurant conversation. Should I argue with the warden when he maybe overstepping his bound but potentially make him mad, or should I comply knowing that all is well? Should I complain my food is not right or run the risk someone will spit in it?


V/R
J


----------



## Johnboat (Jun 7, 2004)

*I am against TPWD enforcing landowner rights*

If its a legal deer...if its in season....if it is correctly tagged...then IMO game over for the TPWD Game Warden's job.

If some landowner suspects trespassing, let him call the county sheriff. Wardens are to protect the public's wild game resource, not to protect landowners rights. Thats the sheriff's job. (I know any LEO can enforce any law, but game wardens should focus on the correct harvesting and tagging of the legal animal if there is no evidence of poaching and not worry about what some adjoining landowner might later claim.)


----------



## RobaloSunrise (Jun 10, 2011)

Game wardens are peace officers and just like another has rules they have to go by. You can tell a game warden not to come back without a warrant. 


V/R
J


----------



## Bruiser (Dec 11, 2011)

RobaloSunrise said:


> That is a good question and I would argue that unless I am suspected of committing a crime then there is no need to take a sample. If I am being accused of committing a crime arrest me and the collect your evidence. Law enforcement officers are allowed to lie to you and will frequently ask for your permission to something in a way which seems as if they have the right to do it legally. I would like to know what a lawyer or someone well versed has to say on the matter.
> 
> Here is scenario, say you shoot a deer legally. It runs and in it's panic it runs into a fence. The force of the impact causes lots of blood and some tissue to be transferred to the other side of the fence even though the animal was propelled back onto the correct side. With this blood sample could someone say you shot it on the other side and drug it over the fence?
> 
> ...


There would most likely be blood where you shot it, and most likely give some sort of trail in the direction of the fence... that seems not very hard to prove your shot was legal


----------



## jhen (Mar 25, 2011)

I cant believe I wasted my time reading this.


----------



## RobaloSunrise (Jun 10, 2011)

Really it won't let me post the section with the rule in it.

Anyway 12.102 inspection of wildlife resources.


----------



## poco jim (Jun 28, 2010)

Before he left he collected a blood/tissue sample and said he was doing this just incase a landowner stumbled upon blood on there property.

Can they take these samples without probable cause?

Has this ever happened to you?[/QUOTE]

Guys, the warden stated he was doing it JUST IN CASE a landowner found blood and had a complaint, nothing else nothing more. Give it a rest!:headknock


----------



## royboy42 (Apr 28, 2007)

I would have asked the game warden if I could take a sample of his blood in return! jkn...I agree I would have found it odd, but at the end of the day a game warden can pretty much do whatever he wants in most of these type situations. Sounds to me like he was more or less doing his job, there could have been some illegal activity going on close by and he was just covering his bases.


----------



## RobaloSunrise (Jun 10, 2011)

poco jim said:


> Before he left he collected a blood/tissue sample and said he was doing this just incase a landowner stumbled upon blood on there property.
> 
> Can they take these samples without probable cause?
> 
> Has this ever happened to you?


Guys, the warden stated he was doing it JUST IN CASE a landowner found blood and had a complaint, nothing else nothing more. Give it a rest!:headknock[/QUOTE]

When we allow ourselves to give into LEO's doing things for just in case, we give away our freedoms. What if every LEO could stop you and search your vehicle "Just in case" you committed a crime. We have freedoms which should be exercised that protect us from unlawful search and seizure. I am not sure what the correct answer is on this one. I tend to help out when I can. However I will not roll over for LEO's just because they think it is something they can push over on us. I am interested to hear from a lawyer, judge, or game warden on this. Preferably all three. Yes a LEO can come on your property but they are very limited to what they can do. Like most things in life it pays to know what your rights are from the beginning.

V/R
J


----------



## RobaloSunrise (Jun 10, 2011)

[No message]


----------



## Timemachine (Nov 25, 2008)

These question about a Game Wardens authority always end up bad. It is amazing how many guys have been a life long hunter and still don't know that the Game Warden has power like no other law enforcement officer. But you try to tell somebody that on the internet and BANG....big argument. 

If you are hunting and have a dead animal in your possesion, THAT IS probable cause. If you want to see a thread get WAY out of hand, ask a GW question on the Refuge or better yet,,,Duck Hunt Chat. Talk about a bunch spewed out gibberish. Oh and lord help you if you are from a family of LEO and actually KNOW the correct answer,,,shheesh!!


----------



## Neck-deep (Jun 27, 2007)

RobaloSunrise said:


> Guys, the warden stated he was doing it JUST IN CASE a landowner found blood and had a complaint, nothing else nothing more. Give it a rest!:headknock


When we allow ourselves to give into LEO's doing things for just in case, we give away our freedoms. What if every LEO could stop you and search your vehicle "Just in case" you committed a crime. We have freedoms which should be exercised that protect us from unlawful search and seizure. I am not sure what the correct answer is on this one. I tend to help out when I can. However I will not roll over for LEO's just because they think it is something they can push over on us. I am interested to hear from a lawyer, judge, or game warden on this. Preferably all three. Yes a LEO can come on your property but they are very limited to what they can do. Like most things in life it pays to know what your rights are from the beginning.

V/R
J[/QUOTE]

Well said.


----------



## MilosMaster (Aug 18, 2005)

I'm with Timemachine - I have always thought that GW's are the 'most powerful peace officer in the state' and have a higher authority than any other LEO with little or no need for probable cause for search and seizure. This is because almost any evidence they might be dealing with is going to be biological (animals, illegal bait, etc.) and could easily be destroyed in the time it would take to secure a warrant. I have even heard of GW's riding along with other LEO's to take advantage of this power in drug cases - being able to search w/out the same probable cause burden as a normal LEO. Just play by the rules and there is nothing to worry about. I have found every state GW I have ever come in contact with to be very nice and professional (one time we even had the late, great Justin Hurst drop to his knees, cover his face and start mouth calling when he was checking our goose spread and a group of specs came in). The Fed boys are another story . . .


----------



## Neck-deep (Jun 27, 2007)

Timemachine said:


> These question about a Game Wardens authority always end up bad. It is amazing how many guys have been a life long hunter and still don't know that the Game Warden has power like no other law enforcement officer. But you try to tell somebody that on the internet and BANG....big argument.
> 
> If you are hunting and have a dead animal in your possesion, THAT IS probable cause. If you want to see a thread get WAY out of hand, ask a GW question on the Refuge or better yet,,,Duck Hunt Chat. Talk about a bunch spewed out gibberish. Oh and lord help you if you are from a family of LEO and actually KNOW the correct answer,,,shheesh!!


Hey, I'm not trying to start a bashing here. So don't go there.


----------



## Neck-deep (Jun 27, 2007)

MilosMaster said:


> I'm with Timemachine - I have always thought that GW's are the 'most powerful peace officer in the state' and have a higher authority than any other LEO with little or no need for probable cause for search and seizure. This is because almost any evidence they might be dealing with is going to be biological (animals, illegal bait, etc.) and could easily be destroyed in the time it would take to secure a warrant. I have even heard of GW's riding along with other LEO's to take advantage of this power in drug cases - being able to search w/out the same probable cause burden as a normal LEO. Just play by the rules and there is nothing to worry about. I have found every state GW I have ever come in contact with to be very nice and professional (one time we even had the late, great Justin Hurst drop to his knees, cover his face and start mouth calling when he was checking our goose spread and a group of specs came in). The Fed boys are another story . . .


I do play by the rules but just curious if he was too? That's all.


----------



## Hooked Up (May 23, 2004)

jhen said:


> I cant believe I wasted my time reading this.


X2. You beat me to the draw.


----------



## RobaloSunrise (Jun 10, 2011)

I have been trying to post the regulation which is 12.102 with no success game wardens have very limited search and seizure ability. Basically they can come on your property but they can't enter your home, temporary home, vehicle if on a roadway, it's a long list. Basically the Sheriffs office can do the same.


V/R
J


----------



## Timemachine (Nov 25, 2008)

MilosMaster said:


> I have even heard of GW's riding along with other LEO's to take advantage of this power in drug cases - being able to search w/out the same probable cause burden as a normal LEO. ... . .


My Dad and Uncle used to do this when they were DPS.

Neck-Deep....never accused anyone of bashing. Sorry you took it that way.


----------



## Neck-deep (Jun 27, 2007)

Timemachine said:


> My Dad and Uncle used to do this when they were DPS.
> 
> Neck-Deep....never accused anyone of bashing. Sorry you took it that way.


Not a problem. I know these GW questions pop up from time to time, so I know what you mean.


----------



## Spec-Rig.006 (Nov 2, 2007)

Gamewardens are the only enforcement entities that do not need probable cause for search or seizure. Probably already been covered.

From another standpoint, on public land, as "issues" often come up - he's protecting your tail taking those samples. Don't even sweat it ...


----------



## RobaloSunrise (Jun 10, 2011)

Sections 12.102 - 12.104 cover the search and seizure that game wardens can do. They do have to have probable cause. They have to have the reasonable and articulable suspicion of illegal activity. Which is the same as any other LEO. They can search a few things that regular LEO's cant the list is fairly limited. They do not have carte blanche. They can enter your property and if they find evidence of wrong doing they can prosecute a search warrant for your residence. They can not enter your residence or temporary residence.

Now as far as I can tell from scouring the regulations and some case law. They are able to sample the game as it in theory belongs to the state until such time as it is final processed. This is the reasoning being keeping the tag with the meat till it gets to its final destination. 

They can enter upon your property because they are checking on a state resource, I.e. the game. They can search, if they have a reasonable and articulable suspicion you were in the act of hunting or fishing, any container used to hold or conceal game. They can not search your residence or temporary residence. 


V/R
J


----------



## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

He took blood from a dead deer and a hair sample...what's the big deal with that? I could care less. He could take the guts hide and whatever is left after I quarter it as far as I'm concerned.

Can he do it? Sure he can do it; it's a dead game animal but this is the first I've ever heard of it being done.

TH


----------



## ol' salt (Jun 11, 2006)

He took the samples since you were 4 miles away. He can go to the kill site, take blood samples and see if they match. If they don't, your site name "neckdeep" could take on a whole new meaning. 

Just funnin' you. He's probably home reading this and laughing his keester off.


----------



## RobaloSunrise (Jun 10, 2011)

Your probably right old salt


V/R
J


----------



## M16 (May 28, 2008)

If game wardens have all these superpowers that other law enforcement don't have then why don't they make every officer a game warden?


----------



## Neck-deep (Jun 27, 2007)

ol' salt said:


> He took the samples since you were 4 miles away. He can go to the kill site, take blood samples and see if they match. If they don't, your site name "neckdeep" could take on a whole new meaning.
> 
> Just funnin' you. He's probably home reading this and laughing his keester off.


Thats probably what he did do. Hes probably saying, "that sun of a..."


----------



## Neck-deep (Jun 27, 2007)

M16 said:


> If game wardens have all these superpowers that other law enforcement don't have then why don't they make every officer a game warden?


BIG BROTHER is watching!


----------



## Neck-deep (Jun 27, 2007)

I decided to give the warden a call since its been bugging me all day. He said i couldve said no to the sampling since there wasnt any complaints or probable cause. The thing is i said yes go ahead and take a sample because i didnt have anything to hide and i knew i shot my deer legally. He said had there beenn an ongoing investigation or a phone call report then things wouldve been diff. And he couldve gotten a sample no matter what i said. He said ultimately the court decides in the end whether there was foul play in gathering evidence. 



Its good to know your rights.


----------



## MLK (Oct 5, 2009)

Yes i have heard of this in the past in another state colorado. They tookblood and tissue samples from a kill site of an elk out of season then took samlples froma hunters deep freeze matched them up and he was fined, and theelktaken from him. You canalso lookat itin another way, if he did geta calland you dideverything legal then thesamples would be protecting you from false accusations.


----------



## w_r_ranch (Jan 14, 2005)

Trouthunter said:


> He took blood from a dead deer and a hair sample...what's the big deal with that? I could care less. He could take the guts hide and whatever is left after I quarter it as far as I'm concerned.
> 
> Can he do it? Sure he can do it; it's a dead game animal but this is the first I've ever heard of it being done.
> 
> TH


We routinely give our doe/spike heads to the biologist for his brain-stem studies, I see little difference here. Heck if our GW was there when we were cleaning them, I'd ask him if he would mind dropping them off for me & save me a 10 mile trip. 

I personally like our GWs & respect the job they do, same with our biologist.


----------



## Neck-deep (Jun 27, 2007)

w_r_ranch said:


> We routinely give our doe/spike heads to the biologist for his brain-stem studies, I see little difference here. Heck if our GW was there when we were cleaning them, I'd ask him if he would mind dropping them off for me & save me a 10 mile trip.
> 
> I personally like our GWs & respect the job they do, same with our biologist.


I assume you dont public hunt or have a need too unlike some of us. No pun intended.


----------



## w_r_ranch (Jan 14, 2005)

No, I don't. I do have neighbors that own adjoining land, just as any public land does...


----------



## bearwhiz (Jan 30, 2011)

Some of your posts sound as if you just have a general dislike for game wardens. They are doing their jobs just letting you know they are trying to keep their eye on things. And yes it is part of their jobs to protect land owners property rights. Sounds like you need to do some research on game wardens powers of arrest search and seizure and Texas game laws....unless you have something to hide.


----------



## RobaloSunrise (Jun 10, 2011)

I have great respect for LEO's, so much so that I hold them to the standards to which I am held and I question them anytime that I feel the need. I do this because if you allow LEO's, or anyone for that matter, to continually get away with things that are not quite kosher you create and environment which allow bad cops to operate. As citizens of the United States it is our right to question authority, and I feel it is our duty to help not only enforce the rules upon on each other but to hold the LEO's accountable as well. When no one says anything you end up with clowns like the officer in the news lately which for the last year has been threatening and terrorizing citizens and can be heard to say, and I am paraphrasing, "I should execute you right now." His partner on at least one videoed stop does nothing to calm him down or to mitigate the situation. With the current regime making every effort to strip us of our rights as citizenswe should all make every effort to question those that question us. Do it with respect, do it with candor, but don't allow yourself to be pushed over. When asked if you will consent to a search and you don't want to, just state clearly that you do not consent to a search. Now the officer may search anyway, and it is for a judge to decide whether it was warranted or not. Just don't resist a search, or fight, or argue with the officer. You do not need to concede to a search though. 



V/R
J


----------



## Josh5 (Jun 27, 2007)

*This would give him a reason to suspect something....*



Neck-deep said:


> He ran into me while I was skinning the deer at my truck which is 4 miles away from my hunting spot.


If you were cleaning it at the spot of the kill that would be one thing, but when you admit you killed it in one spot, but then move it to clean it. That could raise some questions. At first I thought he went too far, but this comment made me think he was just doing his job in 'E-Tx.'


----------



## Neck-deep (Jun 27, 2007)

Josh5 said:


> If you were cleaning it at the spot of the kill that would be one thing, but when you admit you killed it in one spot, but then move it to clean it. That could raise some questions. At first I thought he went too far, but this comment made me think he was just doing his job in 'E-Tx.'


I've know him since 2003. He knows where my hunting spot is already. I told him where he could find the blood.

I bit the bullet last night and decided to give him a call. I asked him if I had the right that day to say, 'no, I don't want you to take a sample.' He said I could've said no since there was no probable cause or motive. However, I did say yes go ahead, because I felt I had too at the moment.

This is all I wanted to know from posting this thread.


----------



## MEGABITE (May 21, 2004)

Good info. Just say no.


----------



## 6Mile (Dec 17, 2005)

Ok, i didnt read all the comments on here but i do have a question about your post. And let me preface, i don't have a problem with a gamewarden doing his job period. But why would he need a blood sample incase a landowner saw blood on their property, if you were hunting public land. Did the warden not believe your story or something. Was there nearby property that is owned by someone.


----------



## longhorn_cop (Dec 29, 2011)

Game wardens have no "super" given right that other LEOs do not.
That is a myth.
Any peace officer can enforce any game law.
However, ALL (including GW) Leos must have probable cause to search.
Or get permission to search.
Usually people give permission and dont realize it.


----------



## kman73 (Dec 27, 2007)

I'm not a game warden but I do have some experience in blood splatter interpertation. If the scenario occurred the way you have stated, a person trained in blood splatter interpertation can determine which direction force was applied to the producer of the blood. Thus one could determine that the deer was on your side of the fence and the force of the impact caused the blood to travel from the force direction and land on the other side of the fence. I have actually attended some of these type courses with Game Wardens. Don't get your feelings hurt about him taking the sample, at the time he took it he was just taking the oppurtunity to obtain possible evidence just in case a crime did occur. Think about it this way, a law enforcement officer often has to act on his training and experience and he often dicovers crimes before they are reported. They often only have one chance to get what they need to make a case. I hoped this helped.


----------



## Icetrey (Oct 8, 2007)

Haven't read through the supplies so might have already been said: could be poaching in the area, in which why not get a blood sample of the deer harvested the game warden comes across so in case there is an investigation of poaching or something else, he can just rule out people that he has seen. I guess I could understand feeling like he didn't trust you, but it's his job


----------



## pintail74 (Jul 26, 2007)

ROBOWADER said:


> So the wardens will spend the money on a DNA test to make sure the animal was killed legally?????


Yes they will, they do it all the time. Although I don't think it's actually a DNA test. They match the samples somehow, blood protiens maybe, I don't really know.

I got a friend who is a warden and he takes down a few people every year via blood and tissue samples.


----------



## w_r_ranch (Jan 14, 2005)

I know that they do have access to a state-of-the-art DNA lab... and they do use it. For example:

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/newsmedia/releases/?req=20081010f

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/fishboat/fish/management/hatcheries/fw_fish_lab/lab3.phtml


----------



## wet dreams (May 21, 2004)

If you did nothing wrong I would ask him if he needed a stool sample also....WW


----------



## wet dreams (May 21, 2004)

Josh5 said:


> If you were cleaning it at the spot of the kill that would be one thing, but when you admit you killed it in one spot, but then move it to clean it. That could raise some questions. At first I thought he went too far, but this comment made me think he was just doing his job in 'E-Tx.'


Surely you don't find it odd that someone would take there deer somewhere else to clean it other than where it fell....WW


----------



## Josh5 (Jun 27, 2007)

wet dreams said:


> Surely you don't find it odd that someone would take there deer somewhere else to clean it other than where it fell....WW


No not at all. 
It is the public land part I guess that makes this situation different. I kill a deer on my property/lease, and I gut it typically at a place I don't mind coyotes feeding on the pile (not in front of my stand). However, it is still on my property/lease. The OP admitted transporting it 4+ miles from the kill spot to the cleaning spot, which adds some possiblity in the GW's mind for foul play????

I am on the side of don't infringe on my rights....just saying.


----------



## Spex (Aug 20, 2009)

I believe he needs probable cause but NO warrant. His probable cause was maybe there is lots of poaching in the area and it said you were cleaning the animal ? Does that include gutting ? If so that could be probable cause cause most hunters gut there deer in or atleast near there hunting area to make the drag out not that difficult. He possibly seeing you with an undressed deer at the rosd just may assumed that it was not taken in the woods but at the rd or at an area you had to hurry out of example(somebodys Ranch) I dont know but that was just an Idea !


----------



## Neck-deep (Jun 27, 2007)

bearwhiz said:


> Some of your posts sound as if you just have a general dislike for game wardens. They are doing their jobs just letting you know they are trying to keep their eye on things. And yes it is part of their jobs to protect land owners property rights. Sounds like you need to do some research on game wardens powers of arrest search and seizure and Texas game laws....unless you have something to hide.


This post is not about liking or disliking anyone. Think of it as an educational post for everyone.


----------



## Neck-deep (Jun 27, 2007)

Spex said:


> I believe he needs probable cause but NO warrant. His probable cause was maybe there is lots of poaching in the area and it said you were cleaning the animal ? Does that include gutting ? If so that could be probable cause cause most hunters gut there deer in or atleast near there hunting area to make the drag out not that difficult. He possibly seeing you with an undressed deer at the rosd just may assumed that it was not taken in the woods but at the rd or at an area you had to hurry out of example(somebodys Ranch) I dont know but that was just an Idea !


Possibly? I dont need to drag.


----------



## mudcatz71 (Jun 8, 2006)

When i started reading this thread. I was gonna call BS on the gamewarden,but sounds like he wasn't pulling your leg. Had no clue they went to the extremes to build a case. I don't agree with that if its true. To me that would be like the government wanting everybodys finger prints and DNA in a data base before hand.


----------



## "The Marshall" (Jan 12, 2005)

RobaloSunrise said:


> Game wardens are peace officers and just like another has rules they have to go by. You can tell a game warden not to come back without a warrant.
> 
> V/R
> J


LMAO... he will sit there and call a federal game warden and they will walk into your house or whatever else they wish to to do and you will like it!

no paper work needed

been there .. 
done it 
got the t-shirt


----------



## MEGABITE (May 21, 2004)

What did they find? :slimer:


----------



## RobaloSunrise (Jun 10, 2011)

"The Marshall" said:


> LMAO... he will sit there and call a federal game warden and they will walk into your house or whatever else they wish to to do and you will like it!
> 
> no paper work needed
> 
> ...


Well then it sounds as if you had your rights violated and a lawyer would have been your best course of action. here are the statutes straight out of the state code. 12.102 section d covers searches of your home and it expressly prohibits that. Just cause a LEO does something doesn't mean it's legal and you generally have to file suit after the fact. I have been told by numerous good officers that when I feel my rights have been violated I should call Internal Affairs. IA takes complaints seriously as they are looking out for the department not just and officers butt. Or maybe I just read the statue wrong.

Sec. 12.102. INSPECTION OF WILDLIFE RESOURCES. (a) In this section:

(1) "Residence" means a person's principal or ordinary home or dwelling place.

(2) "Temporary residence" means a place where a person temporarily dwells or seeks shelter. The term does not include a hunting blind. The term does include a:

(A) hunting club or lodge;

(B) clubhouse;

(C) cabin;

(D) tent;

(E) manufactured home used as a hunting club or lodge; and

(F) hotel room, motel room, or room in a boardinghouse used during a hunting trip.

(3) "Wildlife resource" means any animal, bird, reptile, amphibian, fish, or form of aquatic life or any part of an animal, bird, reptile, amphibian, fish, or form of aquatic life the hunting, catching, or possession of which is regulated by this code.

(b) Except as provided by Subsection (d), a game warden or other peace officer commissioned by the department who observes a person engaged in an activity regulated by this code or under the jurisdiction of the commission or reasonably believes that a person is or has been engaged in an activity regulated by this code or under the jurisdiction of the commission may inspect:

(1) any license, permit, tag, or other document issued by the department and required by this code of a person hunting or catching wildlife resources;

(2) any device that may be used to hunt or catch a wildlife resource;

(3) any wildlife resource in the person's possession; and

(4) the contents of any container or receptacle that is commonly used to store or conceal a wildlife resource.

(c) Except as provided by Subsection (d), a game warden or other peace officer commissioned by the department may inspect any wildlife resource that has been taken by a person and is in plain view of the game warden or other peace officer.

(d) Nothing in this section authorizes a game warden or other peace officer commissioned by the department to conduct a search otherwise authorized by this section:

(1) in a person's residence or temporary residence; or

(2) on a publicly maintained road or way that is:

(A) improved, designed, or ordinarily used for vehicular traffic;

(B) open to the public; and

(C) distinguishable from a shoulder, berm, or other area not intended for vehicular traffic.

Added by Acts 2003, 78th Leg., ch. 558, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 2003.

Sec. 12.103. ENTERING LAND; USE OF INFORMATION OBTAINED BY ENTRY; CIVIL PENALTY. (a) To enforce the game and fish laws of the state and to conduct scientific investigations and research regarding wild game or fish, an authorized employee of the department may enter on any land or water where wild game or fish are known to range or stray. No action may be sustained against an employee of the department to prevent his entering on land or water when acting in his official capacity as described by this subsection.

(b) Except as provided by Subsection (d), the department may use information collected by an employee of the department on privately owned land only for the purposes of scientific investigations and research described in Subsection (a) and only if authorized in writing by the landowner or the landowner's agent. Unless the department first obtains the written consent of the landowner or the landowner's agent, the department may not:

(1) use other incidental information obtained on the land that does not pertain directly to the investigation or research authorized under Subsection (a); or

(2) enter or permit the entry of any information that does not pertain directly to the investigation or research authorized under Subsection (a), into a database:

(A) maintained by the department and available to a person other than a department employee;

(B) maintained by a natural heritage program administered by the department; or

(C) established and maintained by any other person.

(c) Except as provided by Subsection (d), information collected under this section may only be reported or compiled in a manner that prevents the identification of an individual parcel or specific parcels of private property without the written consent of the landowner or the landowner's agent.

(d) The department may collect and enter data as necessary relating to the occurrence or harvest of natural resources in public land or water. The department may collect and report standardized annual wildlife survey information required by the Pitman-Robertson Wildlife Restoration Act (16 U.S.C. Section 669 et seq.).

(e) The department is liable to a private landowner for a civil penalty in the amount of $1,000 for a violation of this section involving information collected by an employee of the department on the landowner's property. A landowner may bring suit to collect the penalty in the county in which the land is located or the county in which the landowner resides.

Acts 1975, 64th Leg., p. 1405, ch. 545, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1975. Amended by Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 521, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.

Sec. 12.104. RIGHT TO SEARCH AND INSPECT. (a) A game warden or other peace officer commissioned by the department may search a game bag, vehicle, vessel, or other receptacle if the game warden or peace officer has a reasonable, articulable suspicion that the game bag, vehicle, vessel, or receptacle contains a wildlife resource that has been unlawfully killed or taken.

(b) A game warden or other peace officer commissioned by the department may inspect a wildlife resource or a part or product of a wildlife resource that is discovered during a search under Subsection (a) of this section.

(c) In this section "wildlife resource" means an animal, bird, reptile, amphibian, fish, or other aquatic life the taking or possession of which is regulated in any manner by this code.

V/R
J


----------



## "The Marshall" (Jan 12, 2005)

RobaloSunrise said:


> Well then it sounds as if you had your rights violated and a lawyer would have been your best course of action. here are the statutes straight out of the state code. 12.102 section d covers searches of your home and it expressly prohibits that. Just cause a LEO does something doesn't mean it's legal and you generally have to file suit after the fact. I have been told by numerous good officers that when I feel my rights have been violated I should call Internal Affairs. IA takes complaints seriously as they are looking out for the department not just and officers butt. Or maybe I just read the statue wrong.
> 
> Sec. 12.102. INSPECTION OF WILDLIFE RESOURCES. (a) In this section:
> 
> ...


i think those statutes are for STATE game wardens and I agree. Thats why the state GW calls the federal GW and you say yes sir you can or he does it anyway


----------



## RobaloSunrise (Jun 10, 2011)

Doesn't matter state or federal. Does it sound right to you that you would have no rights in this country? Does it sound right that there is a government entity which could do anything they want. If the GW is all powerful why wouldn't the government just make everyone a GW or give all LEO's the same power. There are regulations they have to go by and if you feel your rights have been violated then get a lawyer and call IA.


V/R
J


----------



## "The Marshall" (Jan 12, 2005)

RobaloSunrise said:


> Doesn't matter state or federal. Does it sound right to you that you would have no rights in this country? Does it sound right that there is a government entity which could do anything they want. If the GW is all powerful why wouldn't the government just make everyone a GW or give all LEO's the same power. There are regulations they have to go by and if you feel your rights have been violated then get a lawyer and call IA.
> 
> V/R
> J


If the federal game warden is not all powerful then why would the DEA call them to gain access in certain situations where they might be a suspicion of a game violation? im no lawyer but it seems they dont need a search warrant? Have you ever been stopped or questioned by a federal game warden?


----------



## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

No state or federal officer can enter your residence to do anything without your permission or without a warrant...period.

The only exclusion would be if they saw you commit a crime and chased you INTO your place of residence.

The 4th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution prohibiting unlawful search and seizure applies to Wardens the same as it does to all law enforcement. 

Someone posted this on another board years ago and you can bank on what he says: There is no game warden, wildlife officer, any other law enforcement officer, federal law, state law, local ordnance, park rule, camping regulation or any other text or employee of any branch of the government that supersedes the 4th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution prohibiting unlawful search and seizure. 

This has all be covered before boys and girls; do a search lol...pun intended.

TH


----------



## longhorn_cop (Dec 29, 2011)

Good post trouthunter.
Well said.
Not even a federal warden has more power than any other leo.
Some people will never believe it.


----------



## OWR (Dec 8, 2011)

You might be glad he took the sample if you were accused of wrong doing and his evidence showed you did not.

I dont believe that the are our to get us, they are here to protect our resources and charge us when they believe we have crossed the line.

It is a judge / jury that determines the outcome when we are charged, not the LEO.

My opnion...

O


----------



## RobaloSunrise (Jun 10, 2011)

OWR said:


> You might be glad he took the sample if you were accused of wrong doing and his evidence showed you did not.
> 
> I dont believe that the are our to get us, they are here to protect our resources and charge us when they believe we have crossed the line.
> 
> ...


Well said, which I why I don't ever advocate arguing. Let every one do their job and sort it all out in court.

V/R
J


----------

