# Is this normal?



## redkiller99 (Feb 28, 2013)

I just started reloading today and I worked up a box of Honady gmx's..being a newbie to this, I'm not sure if everything is correct but I did follow the directions. I don't know if I've seated the bullet to the correct measurement. My IMR 4064 requires my full bullet to b between two measurements that seat the bullet in awkward positions due to the crimping groove located outside of the casing after the measurements are correct...this only bothers me a little, but I was just wondering if this was normal


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## Bird (May 10, 2005)

What caliber? What weight powder charge? What weight bullet? What type of gun, ie bolt or semi auto?

If you are sure your powder charge is correct, your case length was trimmed properly, and the COAL measures what the manual says it should be then you should be ok.


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## redkiller99 (Feb 28, 2013)

As you can see, the IMR4064 states the min OAL (minimum overall length) is 2.800 inches and the maximum overall length is 2.810 for all .308 cartridges. This leaves me with little wiggle room for the bullet seating and this is what occurred from that. I know I should have gotten the better powder, like reloader 15 which would have given me plenty of wiggle room as you can see from the chart but Cabelas was out of stock on ,just about everything else but the IMR4064...I really hope I'm doing all this right.. And I'm using 150 grain jacketed, .308 shooting out of a Remington 700 vtr


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Different bullet design will place the "groves" in different places. As Bird says dont worry about that the OAL is correct. Also powder wouldnt effect where the "groves" end up. Its about bullet design. IE round nose, pointed, etc.


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## redkiller99 (Feb 28, 2013)

These are my readings for the cartridge length...they are right at 2.8 in. and most of them are closer to 2.85 in. because I adjusted them to b closer to the middle so I wouldn't b so close to the minimal. The readings are correct, the powder is all between 42.5 and 43.5 grains due to the fact that I do not own funnel and getting the powder in the casings was hard. And your right but the powder does have some contribution as you can see on the chart...it places the minimal overall length for the IMR4064 at 2.8 in. while other powders are set to lower or higher min OAL. like the reloader 15. With that, the bullet could b pushed farther in due to the fact that the min OAL is 2.7 inches. A whole tenth of an inch less. What causes this?


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

I would guess the powder manufacturer is considering compressed load differences. Possible during their testing they determined powder or bullet performed better not compressed, or compressed.


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## Rmm (Jun 7, 2013)

Seating depth can be dependant on several things. The first is the distance to the lands. Also magazine length will be a consideration if its not a single shot. Semi-autos are often a little more critical due to mag lengths and proper feeding. Changing seating depth can effect accuracy as much as different powders. I normally load for bolt guns. When working up a load I will usuall load three loads at 5 thousands, 30 thousands, and 60 thousands off of the lands. Usually one of the loads will be more accurate. From there I can fine tune my seating depth and powder charge.


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## Bearwolf34 (Sep 8, 2005)

Havent tried the GMX's, but have ran a box of the 150gr hdy SST's through my 308. The cannelure was seated out about like yours. It does look odd, but they all shot very well and are hell on hogs. 2.805 - 2.810" OAL is where I keep mine at based upon my chamber.

One thing I found out with the SST's is they like to be ran "hot" at least in my rifle. Im about half a grain over the max listed in the hdy manual for IMR 4064. It can be pain to measure but it sure works good in a lot of different calibers. Have been using it since 1988. Ramshot Tac is another good powder in 308, it meters like sugar and accuracy is almost the same as the Imr4064.


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## spurgersalty (Jun 29, 2010)

According to hornadys 8th, that bullet should be seated to 2.735, and a charge of 43.5 of 4064(btw, great powder that has produced some great groups in multiple rifles for me), is dam near a max load.
You would be better off starting around 41 grains and working up from there in .5 grain increments.
As far as seating depth, did you try to chamber the first round to determine if it would in fact load in the gun?


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## redkiller99 (Feb 28, 2013)

Well if it's supposed to b farther down than I have it, I can always just position it different


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## redkiller99 (Feb 28, 2013)

And no I haven't loaded the rifle but I will now


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## redkiller99 (Feb 28, 2013)

I was also wondering if I could de-seat the bullet after seating to change powder measures. Just so I can find the most accurate one and measure more accurately


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## spurgersalty (Jun 29, 2010)

Yes, with a pullet puller. You may not be able to save the powder if using a kinetic style though. I have tried in the past, and been successful catching the bullet before it entirely fell out and dropped the powder.


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## cadjockey (Jul 30, 2009)

That's not a crimping groove or cannelure, it's a fouling groove. Most monolithic bullets will have multiple. Ignore them. Don't crimp.


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## redkiller99 (Feb 28, 2013)

The bullets cleanly chamber into my rifle and the internal magazine. I'm still really confused on the seating part of the reloading process. The table says to load this size bullet and my powder between 2.8 and 2.81 inches while other things are telling me to use my rifle and not worry about the powder.


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## spurgersalty (Jun 29, 2010)

Seating depths or OALs are arbitrary numbers. 
If a bullet is set deeper in a case for a given load, it can build more pressure than if set to a book suggested OAL. If the OAL is increased, with the same charge weight, the pressures drop, that is, until you start getting close to the lands. At that point, some load/bullet combos can see a serious pressure spike that can exceed the casings design strength. Some bullets such as the bergers VLDs can be seated to the lands without seeing that pressure spike.
It can be confusing. 
I'd suggest following the recommendations of the data you have and proceeding cautiously from there. Good luck.


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## Wado (May 15, 2011)

*Dummies*

I make dummy loads, no primer, resized, trimmed, and either seated to the books spec's or my chamber headspace. If it's for an auto better stick to the book and not a gnats hair longer until you know your chamber. Then I take an engraving pencil and put all the information on the dummy, bullet type and catalog #, die type and seating OAL. Then you can safely run them through the action without taking the chance of messing your pants up with a discharge, or you life. Also it makes it easy setting the seater die up. Does any one else waste their time doing this?


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## Scout177 (Oct 23, 2006)

Yeah, when I shot silo and found a load/bullet for my 7-BR, 44 mag or whatever that worked well, I would load a dummy to set my seater die next time. Helps a lot when your crimping bullets to have a dummy to set the bullet depth.


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## CoastalOutfitters (Aug 20, 2004)

Wado said:


> I make dummy loads, no primer, resized, trimmed, and either seated to the books spec's or my chamber headspace. If it's for an auto better stick to the book and not a gnats hair longer until you know your chamber. Then I take an engraving pencil and put all the information on the dummy, bullet type and catalog #, die type and seating OAL. Then you can safely run them through the action without taking the chance of messing your pants up with a discharge, or you life. Also it makes it easy setting the seater die up. Does any one else waste their time doing this?


this....

agreed, leave the primer out,

soft seat a bullet and rub it with a marker, chamber it until it just touches the lands.

that is your new seat depth.............not the same for all rifles


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## Superman70 (Aug 13, 2014)

Yes I do Wado. Every rifle has a dummy for every bullet that I load for it in a ammo box that is just for the dummies. I write the details in sharpie on the side of the case.


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## Chase4556 (Aug 26, 2008)

Are you able to seat your bullets close to the lands when shooting through a semi auto?

I would assume that to seat right at the lands, it would require being past magazine length for something like a .223(2.260"). Is that correct thinking? I may seat a dummy just to see what it is. I can do it on my bolt rifles as well though with no issues.


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## cadjockey (Jul 30, 2009)

CoastalOutfitters said:


> this....
> 
> agreed, leave the primer out,
> 
> ...


That's how I was taught when I was a kid. Magic marker or soot the bullet.



Chase4556 said:


> Are you able to seat your bullets close to the lands when shooting through a semi auto?


I never have, and all my bolt gun loads are seated far beyond magazine length. They also have single shot followers installed so magazine length doesn't come into play, neither does some book's listed overall length number.

In the below photo the two .308 loads on the left are for two different bolt guns, both touching the lands. The spitzer goes with a gun I cut with a longer leade throat, it's a tack driver. The one with the red tipped Amax is for a Sig716 loaded at max length for the mag, waaay short of the lands. Same for the .223, the two on the left are for two different bolt guns, one on the right is for an AR at max mag length, short of the lands. I've shot the 716 with the bullet on the lands, single shot style, and it shot a little better than the load at max mag length...just one of the tradeoffs of a semi-auto. It's just a pig shooter anyway and chasing seating depths for a semi-auto is more an academic exercise than anything.


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## Chase4556 (Aug 26, 2008)

That is what I figured. 

So, when loading your rounds to touch the lands. Obviously your COL is now longer. Do you have to change anything else with your load when you do that? Powder charges or anything of the sort?


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