# A Bone To Pick



## kenny (May 21, 2004)

I love Shimano reels and that's all I fish, but in the last few years it seems like the company is taking my/our loyalty for granted. Actually pushing to see where the limit is of our dollar and our expectations for that dollar. 
Anyone else sense that?


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## jhbarc (Aug 28, 2006)

Yeah thats why the last three reels I hve purchased have not been shimanos . (2 Daiwa Coastals 1 Revo Inshore ) The Revo Inshore has become my go to rig over all my shimanos and the daiwa's .


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## Profish00 (May 21, 2004)

I'm out of the market, thats for sure. And I have 10 of their reels.

They blew when the green ones went away. That was the best reel under 100 dollars.


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## GSMAN (May 22, 2004)

I don't mind paying as long as its a quality product. Which overall their products are quality. However, I have had an issue with the new Curados. Dont wanna whine but I have sent it to Shimano for an overhaul, sent it to Fishing Tackle Unlimited for maintenance, and the thing still isn't realiable. Its sitting in a box on one of my garage shelves. I still love my MGs but I am not convinced of the increase cost/benefit of the new Cores. Just my opinion!


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## raw10628 (May 23, 2004)

Profish00 said:


> I'm out of the market, thats for sure. And I have 10 of their reels.
> 
> They blew when the green ones went away. That was the best reel under 100 dollars.


I'm not sure the Green ones were under $100. The green Curado was a great reel, but so is its replacement the Citica. Most want to be narrow mineded about it though and not realize what the Citica offers. IMO it is a better reel than the green Curado and at the very least equal to it's predecessor. All of the reels moved up a notch in their respective price point, but the reels that are in that price point are better than the models previously in that price point. The company has to advance and some people fail to realize how things are better, mostly because most people don't like change. If the company would not have been continually advancing you would have never had the green Curado. Check out what they have to offer in their new line and I'm sure you won't be dissapointed.


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## juanpescado (Dec 22, 2006)

Profish00 said:


> I'm out of the market, thats for sure. And I have 10 of their reels.
> 
> They blew when the green ones went away. That was the best reel under 100 dollars.


My Citicas outperform my green curados all the way around and are the same price the old curados were , citica is the best reel for the money , my 2 cents ...


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## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

juanpescado said:


> My Citicas outperform my green curados all the way around and are the same price the old curados were , citica is the best reel for the money , my 2 cents ...


Agreed X 3 Citica's


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## TheGoose (Jan 22, 2006)

I had an old green curado and a new citica 100 the other day. Fished with them both. While the Curado is still a great reel, the citica blows it away. Try one out. I like the 100 model, much lighter for the money.


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## deebo (May 22, 2004)

just bought a new citica 100 and that thing is sweet!


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## Bantam1 (Jun 26, 2007)

You have to understand a few things that cause increases in cost. 


1- Increase in prices of metal and other raw materials we use to manufacture reels.

2- New features such as HEG (Larger gears for added power), Magnumlite spool (lighter spool for better casting with less effort), Forged handle, etc; This stuff costs more money to make. We offered a better reel. The Curado B model was a steal at $119. We could have sold it then for more money I bet and you owuld have paid it 

3- Dealers want to make a better percentage on what they sell. This includes every bit of tackle in the store. Its called business. 

4- We are always going to produce the most advanced tackle we can. This is why reels are changing much faster from model to model. Look at cars these days. Every year they get a facelift or redesign.

Some of you have spoke up about the Citica. This is absolutely true! The new Citica 200D outperforms the older Curado 200BSF in every aspect. I think that several people are just not willing to change. I heard the same complaints about the Chronarch when we introduced the B model. Now the customers that have switched to it the B model are very happy with the improved performance. Lets face it you can't make everyone happy, and we are aware of that. We try to offer products that fit everyone's needs and demands and that is the best we can do.


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## let's go (Nov 14, 2005)

You guys crack me up with the "old green reel" stuff. Do you honestly think that Shimano, or any other manufacturer, should stand pat on their technology and product? The new reels have advances in materials and technolgy. The R&D costs money, the new materials and dies cost money, and the retailer wants to make a fair margin.

Yes, the green curado was a great reel in it's day. So was my original silver Bantam. And my black Bantam mag was the ****z. So were my old "red reels" from Abu. I've even got an old Pflueger #1893 direct drive reel that is still functional. Do I still use those reels? Nope. Could I? Yes, they still work, but there are better reels being made and I prefer to fish with the best I can afford. 

As has been said, the curado got a huge upgrade with the D series. Yes, the cost went up. You don't want to spend that much? Buy a Citica. It's a better built reel than the green Curado at the same price. Or for that matter go get a Cruxis. It's a better built reel than the green Curado and it's cheaper than the old reel.

I understand having a love affair with a favorite reel, but times change. Technology changes. Materials change. And 99% of the time those changes lead to better products. 

Go ask your dad or grandfather about the "old red reel" and listen to them go on about how great it was. Then go pick one up and try to throw a 1/16 ounce jig into the wind with it. One day our kids and grandkids will look at the green Curado in the same way.


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## juanpescado (Dec 22, 2006)

I got it figured out , shimano should start painting the citicas green and call them the "curado classic" , no one would ever know the difference !!!


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## kenny (May 21, 2004)

My original post here was not nostalgia for "the old green reel". My question I guess was, what is the Shimano "end game"? Has it become all bottom line? 
If you and I are willing to drop $250. for a 50MG and $350. for a Core, what are our reasonable expectations as far as quality (holding up in a saltwater environment) parts support, and product life?


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## raw10628 (May 23, 2004)

kenny said:


> My original post here was not nostalgia for "the old green reel". My question I guess was, what is the Shimano "end game"? Has it become all bottom line?
> If you and I are willing to drop $250. for a 50MG and $350. for a Core, what are our reasonable expectations as far as quality (holding up in a saltwater environment) parts support, and product life?


I would say that most of us buying the MG reels understand they need to be taken care of in saltwater because of their lack of resistence as we saw in the earlier models. It seems Shimano has been a stand up company about it though and taken care of the frames that were having problems, yours included if I'm not mistaken. It would have been really easy to just ignore the situation and said don't use them in saltwater. Instead, as you know, Shimano is replacing the frames on any model that does not have the new frame. Seems to me like they are still the same great company with great support, that is why we have this forum here on 2cool.


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## Capt Ryan Rachunek (Feb 16, 2006)

If Shimano was building a reel that didn't hold up to our fishing conditions here, no one would be spending $250-$350 for a reel and this would be a mute point. The reel industry is driven by customer demand and I personally don't mind paying more for a reel that is cutting edge technology. Also, Shimano stands behind their product and will do what it takes to keep customers happy. Are you familiar with the "exchange" program for the older Mg50's??? How many thousands of NEW reels do you think Shimano handed out during the life of the program??? Doesn't sound to me like a company that is more worried about their bottom line than they are worried about customer satisfaction.....


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## kenny (May 21, 2004)

raw10628 said:


> I would say that most of us buying the MG reels understand they need to be taken care of in saltwater because of their lack of resistence as we saw in the earlier models. It seems Shimano has been a stand up company about it though and taken care of the frames that were having problems, yours included if I'm not mistaken. It would have been really easy to just ignore the situation and said don't use them in saltwater. Instead, as you know, Shimano is replacing the frames on any model that does not have the new frame. Seems to me like they are still the same great company with great support, that is why we have this forum here on 2cool.


Look we can do this all evening and not get anywhere. If it sounds like sour grapes, well that's probably partly true. I don't like sending my new reel off for repairs..I'd rather be fishing with it.
My question is about cost, value, and reasonable product life not just 50Mg. but the Core too.

BTW raw, my reel is the new frame!!! It is nine months old and has been meticulously taken care of.....awe, one in a million!


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## Stumpgrinder (Feb 18, 2006)

I am a recovering ( for today anyway) tackle junkie and I own way too many Shimano reels. I was one of the ones that howled when they did away with the "old" Curado and for the record I still think they made a tactical error when they did.

I've purchased a few of the new reels ( 50 mg, citica and Calais to name a few) I dont catch any more or less fish because of these new reels, though. I mean really, how far do you need to cast a topwater anyway ?

Its not the arrow, its the indian that determines success. That and a willingness to do preventive maintenance and change your line every once in a while.


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## raw10628 (May 23, 2004)

kenny said:


> Look we can do this all evening and not get anywhere. If it sounds like sour grapes, well that's probably partly true. I don't like sending my new reel off for repairs..I'd rather be fishing with it.
> My question is about cost, value, and reasonable product life not just 50Mg. but the Core too.
> 
> BTW raw, my reel is the new frame!!! It is nine months old and has been meticulously taken care of.....awe, one in a million!


I did see your thread and realize yours in the new frame, but I'm sure you also knew about the increased chances of corrosion due to the magnesium frame before you dropped $250 on the reel. The fact is they are standing behind their product and replacing it for you. I'm just not real sure where your issue is when they seem to be accommodating you by replacing the frame. Sure your out of a reel for a couple weeks, but it's a lot better than being out a reel because Shimano isn't standing behind their product. I've seem a lot of companies that would just tell you better luck next time. If you don't want to risk the chance of this happening then don't buy the reel. Like I said before, most of us know that this could happen to any of our reels, but because we feel that they give us that "edge" we are willing to risk it and pay $250 to $350 for the lighter reels.


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## CAPSIZED (Aug 10, 2004)

Wheres the "edge" in a reel thats 3oz lighter. I'm not paying $200 more for a reel just because its 3oz lighter??? For anyone that thinks 3oz makes a difference in your fishing ability then you need to go to the gym. 

I agree with Kenny... I would rather spend my time on the water than tearing apart and cleaning my reels after every trip.


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## Roby (Jul 12, 2005)

CAPSIZED said:


> Wheres the "edge" in a reel thats 3oz lighter. I'm not paying $200 more for a reel just because its 3oz lighter??? For anyone that thinks 3oz makes a difference in your fishing ability then you need to go to the gym.
> 
> I agree with Kenny... I would rather spend my time on the water than tearing apart and cleaning my reels after every trip.


 I have fished with a lot guys over the years. Ability is a huge factor in being a succesful fisherman. The guy's and gal's I have fished with that seem to out fish others on a consistent basis fish with quality tackle. 3 oz. can make a big difference, especially when you are casting lures all day long 3-4 days in a row. I used to think the super light, high dollar rods where a gimmick. I fished with one one day and I can't throw anything with my old stuff. You cannot fathom the difference in "feel" when using quality lightweight rods and reels compared to similar heavier rigs until you experience it.


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## Capt Ryan Rachunek (Feb 16, 2006)

kenny said:


> Look we can do this all evening and not get anywhere. If it sounds like sour grapes, well that's probably partly true. I don't like sending my new reel off for repairs..I'd rather be fishing with it.
> My question is about cost, value, and reasonable product life not just 50Mg. but the Core too.
> 
> BTW raw, my reel is the new frame!!! It is nine months old and has been meticulously taken care of.....awe, one in a million!


So let me understand..... You are complaining about Shimano quality one minute and the next minute you are saying that you would rather be fishing with a "faulty" Shimano reel instead of sending it in. How can you complain about customer service when you are not using it??? I own the 50MG and the CORE and I take good care of them (I wouuldn't say they are meticulously taken care of) and I haven't had any problems. Some people are just not a good fit for certain types of equipment and I think this is the case here.....


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## bk005 (Feb 23, 2005)

I undertand your fustration kenny. I spent some coin on a new 50 MG on ebay, turned out to be a nifty scorpion from Japan. Long story short, frame corroded and since its a japan model, I had no warranty. I was bummed, and learned an expensive lesson. Now its bearings live on in my old greeny and citica. I can fish hard with these reels and no worries. I learned what the limit is for me on high end equipment. 

If your working it hard for a week or two, or fishing from a cabin in baffin, and cant really clean your reel everyday, Id rather have the dependability of something else.


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## Just Fishin (Jul 15, 2006)

Kenny,

I understand your frustration. I am curious what Shimano will do with your repair. My guess is that if this becomes a no or small cost deal you will feel better...Unless it keeps breaking. I would expect that your repair will be fine. Yours is the first failure I have heard or seen on the new frames. I am probably luckier than most, given I can afford the new toys that Shimano builds. When I fished offshore I had the Calcutta 400's and 700's. Now I have green curado's, light green curado's, Gold Chronarch's, Chronarch BSV's (Those have disappointed unless I am fishing Snook in the Everglades), Mg 50's and now a couple of Core's for wading and a DC Calais for the boat. I have also bought some Daiwa's and was disappointed. I think your issue is the disappointment in the failure you had.

If your issue is the cost. Then its like anything else, buy what you can afford. I would like a Ferrari 430, but the closest to that I may come is my digital Calais. The market will ultimately control what Shimano builds and what they charge. As for me, I want Shimano to keep building things that fit my fishing better, are more relaiable and are easier to maintain. If I like them and can afford them, then I will buy them. If I think they are not worth it, then I won't. 

I hope Shimano does the right thing on your 50 Mg.


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## kenny (May 21, 2004)

The reel is on it's way to California and that will be fine I'm sure. I'm just not communicating very well.

Yes I was disappointed that my 50 MG failed. I never had a Shimano do that EVER before. 

Yes $250. is a lot of money to me and almost anyone else, especially for a fishing reel. 

Yes Shimano will repair it.

I've heard there are no guarantees in life, but I want to know going in how long my $250-$350 reel will operate with reasonable maintenance, that's all..... and I'm done.


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## Aggieangler (May 28, 2004)

My MGs had old frames for at least a year. I waded with them about 16 hours a month, and didn't take them apart every time. I still don't with the new frames. I can see your frustration Kenny, but you have to admit that it is possible that a bad apple gets through on occasion with millions of reels going out the door.

I think Shimano is a stand up company making a high quality, technologically superior product. I like fishing a lot and I spend some of my hard earned dollars to fund it. That means I buy what feels good in my hand and enables ME to catch more fish. That is not a justification for anyone else than me. And there are folks that spend tons more than me. I don't care. I fish with what I like. You should too! 

Now...if I could go fishing this weekend that would be great! LOL


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## sabine lake hustler (Dec 17, 2007)

shimanos are the best!!


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## Sow Trout (Jun 28, 2004)

Obviously, many of you don't know Kenny. I do and I know that he maintains his equipment better than most. His comments were questioning how much we will give Shimano for reels that don't hold up very well. To some it seems as if the price goes up and the quality goes down. Maybe Shimano will give him a loaner while his relatively new reel in in California.


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## Aggieangler (May 28, 2004)

My point was that my reels have held up fine, at around $249 each. If I suddenly had a need for a new reel, I would buy another Chronarch 50MG without a second thought.

I have 12-15 shimano reels and have never had a bad apple. I would certainly venture to guess that a bad one or two make it by their quality control once in a while. It is interesting to me that Shimano is not just replacing the reel, since he has had multiple problems with it. That would seem like the prudent thing for them to do.

I am not sure if any other reel manufacturer in this price range would either for that matter.

It's kind of like...How much will we pay for a gallon of gas? Who knows in ten years? LOL

Kenny...if it helps you sleep better, I will loan ya 2 or 3 50mgs if you need em. Lord knows I am not getting to use them enough right now.


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## Life Aquatic (Oct 24, 2006)

I see that Shimano is pushing the envelope to be the innovative leader. There is a certain amount of R&D passed on in the process. I have a sense that Shimano wants to be the premium reel on the water and in that pursute many products are excessive and priced exceeding most budgets. I don't know of anyone who owns a Calais DC no matter what water they fish. The benefit to the rest of us is that the technology introduced in the cutting edge models trickles down over time to the affordable products that I would expect to make up the bulk of the Shimano sales.

The green reels hit an overall recognized level of acceptance in value and performance. That changed with the introduction of new products, which incorporated new technology for the better.

This debate is really about questioning Shimano's decision for product development. There is no question in my mind if Shimano is slipping. They are moving forward with great engineering, exceptional materials and service. Enough said.

BTW, is everyone overlooking the round Calcutta 150 (old) /100 (new)? It's simple design excels in salt. No corrosion issues at all with proper maintenance. Less time to maintain than the low profiles. The biggest downfall is the ease to change the variable braking system, which I don't ever change anyway. Yes, it is 9.0 oz (same as the Chronarch CH100B) and I consider that a-okay. Easier to break down than low profiles. Casting performance as good, if not better than the Green reels. With a bearing upgrade I consistently throw longer side by side than anything colored green while drifting. Minimum price increase to the B version. Still no super-free but it's a solid forged aluminum reel boasting a classic all-metal round profile that is bullet proof.

I find the upgrade to the TE version price prohibitive for me try out espicially with the weight increase. The TE product specs are greatly improved with both an increase in price, expected, and weight, not expected. Maybe in a year or two it will also come down in price and trimed an ounce.


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## FISH BAIT (Jun 7, 2004)

*????quality????*

I don't think that the quality is keeping stride with the price. I have used Shimano for a while and have had nothing but good luck, till now. I have 4 of the old ch100sf that work awsome. Got the new reel itch and wound up with a 50mg. 6 trips later it has a hole in the frame. I have also taken down, serviced, and repaired several of the new ch100s for friends, and the guts don't lie, the quality is definately slipping. Heck, I would pay 350$ if shimano would make a reel that would last like my 8yr old ch100sfs.

Just my 2 cents FB!!!!


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## small bites (Jun 13, 2004)

What is supposed to be the life time of these reels? 16 hours a week is not much when you live on the water. That's just a couple of days of fishing for some people. I too have shimanos, I like them a LOT, I've not had any problems. (including the green) And when it comes down to it, nobody likes sending thier reels off to the manufacturer. 

But yeah, its nice to have that kind of service. I wish all of the manufacturers were that concerned about their product.

just a thought.

sb:>


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## Bantam1 (Jun 26, 2007)

We offer an upgraded frame for the 50MG. I'm sure if you do a search you will find several posts about this. Mistakes can happen and we stand behind our products 100%. Send your reel in and we will replace the frame at no charge with the new upgraded frame. 


The quality is still the same and always will be.


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## kenny (May 21, 2004)

Bantam1 said:


> We offer an upgraded frame for the 50MG. I'm sure if you do a search you will find several posts about this. Mistakes can happen and we stand behind our products 100%. Send your reel in and we will replace the frame at no charge with the new upgraded frame.
> 
> The quality is still the same and always will be.


Bantam1,
You have a PM


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## deke (Oct 5, 2004)

"Some people are just not a good fit for certain types of equipment and I think this is the case here....."

I hear what you are saying, but Kenny does not fit in that category. He knows his stuff and takes care of his equiptment. He is on the water as much as most guides. 
I feel your disappointment Kenny, I know they will fix it but just having to deal with that.....


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## twitch-twitch-reel (May 21, 2006)

Loyalty, I just don't understand that. Loyalty implies that, the product is not the best on the market and, you stay with the product because you like the name only. I am committed to putting my best on the water. That means fishing what I perceive as the best at the time. If Quantum out performs Shimano then, I am going with Quantum. If in 2009 another company comes up to the bar then, I will go there. Performance is what I am looking for. As for Loyalty, I reserve Loyalty for my boat motor and my wife. Both are to expensive to replace! ROFLMAO!


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## chickenbone (Jan 25, 2005)

bk005 said:


> I undertand your fustration kenny. I spent some coin on a new 50 MG on ebay, turned out to be a nifty scorpion from Japan. Long story short, frame corroded and since its a japan model, I had no warranty. I was bummed, and learned an expensive lesson. Now its bearings live on in my old greeny and citica. I can fish hard with these reels and no worries. I learned what the limit is for me on high end equipment.
> 
> If your working it hard for a week or two, or fishing from a cabin in baffin, and cant really clean your reel everyday, Id rather have the dependability of something else.


BK,

You can buy a new 50mg frame for around a $100 for the Scorpion. The frame is interchangeable. I bought a frame and it had the upgraded protective material on the inside. Also if you want to sell the reel, let me know. Aside from the warranty because it's the japanese model, I prefer the Scorpion over the MG.


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## captgrey (Apr 9, 2008)

OKUMA V-200LX outstanding/////////try it you will like it

[email protected]


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