# Epic 22SC Purchase (or not)



## Truckmaniac

I'm in the market for a NEW bay boat for bass fishing on the larger lakes here in Texas. Most of the time there will be 3 of us on the boat, but in the future I hope to get my grandsons interested in the sport.

I've been a Ranger owner for the past 10 years. Before that, a mixture of Skeeters and a few others. I owned a Skeeter ZX22 back around 2002 and a 2009 BassCat BayCat.

I bought the BayCat, brand new, sight-unseen from a dealer 2 states away because of the price. BassCat doesn't make many of these and I couldn't find any information on it prior to my purchase. The dealer "shrink wrapped" it for my journey back to Texas, so I never really saw it until I unwrapped it when I got it home. It was like getting a pair of underwear for Christmas! I was so under-impressed with the fit, finish and quality that I sold it before I every took it to the lake.

Living 350 miles from the nearest Bay Boat dealer, I've been doing a lot of Internet Shopping and Research. One boat that keeps popping-up and catching my attention is the Epic 22SC. It has great lines, a great lay-out for bass fishing (huge front & rear casting decks), great rod storage and appears to be a quality built boat. I can buy a NEW 2014 with aluminum tandem axle trailer, 200 ETEC (I'm a Yamaha guy but had excellent service out of the 250 ETEC that I owned), hydraulic jack plate, swim platform w/ladder, 101 Rip Tide, 4 bank MinnKota Charger, (2) fishing seats, 8' Talon, HDS7 and HDS5. All for just under $40K plus TT&L.

Does anyone out there have first hand experience with the Epic?

Are you pleased with the fit, finish and quality?

Are there other options that will get me this much boat and equipment for this kind of price?

Thanks for your help!


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## BATWING

Truckmaniac said:


> I'm in the market for a NEW bay boat for bass fishing on the larger lakes here in Texas. Most of the time there will be 3 of us on the boat, but in the future I hope to get my grandsons interested in the sport.
> 
> I've been a Ranger owner for the past 10 years. Before that, a mixture of Skeeters and a few others. I owned a Skeeter ZX22 back around 2002 and a 2009 BassCat BayCat.
> 
> I bought the BayCat, brand new, sight-unseen from a dealer 2 states away because of the price. BassCat doesn't make many of these and I couldn't find any information on it prior to my purchase. The dealer "shrink wrapped" it for my journey back to Texas, so I never really saw it until I unwrapped it when I got it home. It was like getting a pair of underwear for Christmas! I was so under-impressed with the fit, finish and quality that I sold it before I every took it to the lake.
> 
> Living 350 miles from the nearest Bay Boat dealer, I've been doing a lot of Internet Shopping and Research. One boat that keeps popping-up and catching my attention is the Epic 22SC. It has great lines, a great lay-out for bass fishing (huge front & rear casting decks), great rod storage and appears to be a quality built boat. I can buy a NEW 2014 with aluminum tandem axle trailer, 200 ETEC (I'm a Yamaha guy but had excellent service out of the 250 ETEC that I owned), hydraulic jack plate, swim platform w/ladder, 101 Rip Tide, 4 bank MinnKota Charger, (2) fishing seats, 8' Talon, HDS7 and HDS5. All for just under $40K plus TT&L.
> 
> Does anyone out there have first hand experience with the Epic?
> 
> Are you pleased with the fit, finish and quality?
> 
> Are there other options that will get me this much boat and equipment for this kind of price?
> 
> Thanks for your help!


I went and looked at this boat a few weeks ago. They are a very nice fit and finish boat. A 200 should push the boat in the low to mid 50's. The hull and amenities are very thought out and high quality. IMO the 200hp motor is the minimum I would consider on this hull and the only negative thing I can say about it is the wiring is a little lacking. It looked sloppy.

I say go for it! Dont forget Suzuki and Yami are running 6yrs on warranty.


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## yellowskeeter

I have 0 experience with Epic but I have looked at them first hand and truly believe that with the introductory pricing they have and if the v bottom boat is what you are interested in, that you simply could not wrong with this set up. I saw my first one Saturday in trinity in bad water conditions at it was eating it up.


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## whistlingdixie

There are a lot of boats on the market today in that price range that are built really good. I know Epic has just came out but it sounds like you had a bad experience buying a boat sight unseen. If it were me I would go and see the boat and ride in the boat. Sportsman builds a very nice boat as well which is still in that same price range.


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## capfab

yellowskeeter said:


> I have 0 experience with Epic but I have looked at them first hand and truly believe that with the introductory pricing they have and if the v bottom boat is what you are interested in, that you simply could not wrong with this set up. I saw my first one Saturday in trinity in bad water conditions at it was eating it up.


Agree 100%!! Red one on a nasty Trinity bay this weekend. He/It ate it up..... No experience on the fit/finish, but dang nice boat from the outside!!!!!


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## Truckmaniac

BATWING said:


> Dont forget Suzuki and Yami are running 6yrs on warranty.


I believe that Evinrude is offering 5 years if it's on a new boat purchase and 6 years if you're re-powering an existing boat.

Since I'm new here, I have to wait 7200 seconds (2 hours) between my replies, so sorry it took me so long to respond.

It would be great if I could test drive many of the popular models (Pathfinder, Blue Wave, Scout, Nautic Star, Sea Fox, etc.), but time and distance simply won't allow it.

My price-point before TT&L needs to be $40K or less equipped like the Epic that I'm considering. I don't think I can get there with some of the boats that I mentioned.

I need fishing/casting chairs on the front & rear decks.

I need the flip-up jump seats in the back.

I'd like to buy something that will hold-up and have descent resale value.


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## whistlingdixie

what are they selling the boat for without all of those options? Sounds really cheap for a 22' bay boat with all those options.


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## Fish44

*My Epic*

I picked up my epic about 3 weeks ago, only have a few hours on it but can tell you what I know so far. I was looking at boats in 30 to 35k range, which for most part where smaller and kept coming back to the Epic because I felt I was going lot more boat for the same money. For fit and finish I would say crawl around on one for firsthand knowledge. There were a few changes on 2014 mainly with the console and leaning post (more storage). Seems to drive well, I have not had out in rough water. I run an Evinrude 200 HO, currently maxing out at about 48, I plan to change my prop. Boat gets up on plane quick. I plan to test hole shots between 1 to 2 feet but have not yet. I was able to putt around in 1.6 to 1.8 depth water with jack plate all the way up. Talking with other epic owner do recommend a 36 volt trolling motor, boat sits high out of the water so wind will catch it. 24 will work but guys with 24v I talked to wished they had the 36v. I ordered mine with swim ladder so you can get them, and aluminum instead of powder boating, but that is my preference.


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## Fish44

*Flip up Seats and Casting Chairs*



Truckmaniac said:


> I believe that Evinrude is offering 5 years if it's on a new boat purchase and 6 years if you're re-powering an existing boat.
> 
> Since I'm new here, I have to wait 7200 seconds (2 hours) between my replies, so sorry it took me so long to respond.
> 
> It would be great if I could test drive many of the popular models (Pathfinder, Blue Wave, Scout, Nautic Star, Sea Fox, etc.), but time and distance simply won't allow it.
> 
> My price-point before TT&L needs to be $40K or less equipped like the Epic that I'm considering. I don't think I can get there with some of the boats that I mentioned.
> 
> I need fishing/casting chairs on the front & rear decks.
> 
> I need the flip-up jump seats in the back.
> 
> I'd like to buy something that will hold-up and have descent resale value.


Lots of storage, already rigged with front and rear casting seats were a plus to me, surprised how many bay boats do not come that way, the flip up jump are very large and look comfortable.


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## Truckmaniac

Fish44 said:


> Lots of storage, already rigged with front and rear casting seats were a plus to me, surprised how many bay boats do not come that way, the flip up jump are very large and look comfortable.


Thanks for the input!

Since I bass fish, the size of the casting decks and casting seats are very important to me as well. My Dad who is 78 and my brother-in-law who works for UPS (1/2 crippled from the way they work those guys) need a place to set when crossing the lake, so the jump seats are a must.

Can you tell me the height from the floor to the casting decks? I can't find this in any of Epic's literature.

I'll be back in 7200 seconds.

Have you experienced anything negative with the boat so far?

What other makes and models did you consider and what made you decide to go with the Epic?

Thanks and hopefully some other Epic owners will way-in on this Thread!


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## Fish44

Truckmaniac said:


> Thanks for the input!
> 
> Since I bass fish, the size of the casting decks and casting seats are very important to me as well. My Dad who is 78 and my brother-in-law who works for UPS (1/2 crippled from the way they work those guys) need a place to set when crossing the lake, so the jump seats are a must.
> 
> Can you tell me the height from the floor to the casting decks? I can't find this in any of Epic's literature.
> 
> I'll be back in 7200 seconds.
> 
> Have you experienced anything negative with the boat so far?
> 
> What other makes and models did you consider and what made you decide to go with the Epic?
> 
> Thanks and hopefully some other Epic owners will way-in on this Thread!


I would have to measure for you but estimate the front bow deck about 14 inches and back stern deck about 12. you can also try Try emailing Epic they responded to my questions. Nothing negative to make we regret the choice. In the price range I was looking my 2nd choice was a K2 Merdian 2104 the finish out modelm but I plan to saltwater fish primarily. I had this idea of getting shallow running flats boat and went totally different direction from what I started looking at, the EPIC at that price got my attention.


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## DIHLON

I looked very hard at these boats before I pulled the trigger on a different manufacturer. I wasn't comfortable dropping $40K+ on a boat whose manufacturer has only been building bay boats for a year. I loved the layout and all the accessories that came with it, but in the end, I was too skeptical and went elsewhere. Good luck with whatever you choose.


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## yellowskeeter

Epic has been in business much longer. They have been building wakeboard boats for a while now. They have been building boats for 10 years. The hull in this is a proven hull as well, can't remember if it the blazer bay hull, but it's one of them. Look at the other thread on here for Epic.
http://2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/showthread.php?t=426018


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## RedXCross

Dihlon,

You made a very good choice! I have been around the Key West brand for a long time down here where you and I live.


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## redexpress

Just to look at something different, check out the Nautic Star Shallow Bay 21 tunnel hull. Decent casting decks with 3 across flip-up stern seating.


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## BATWING

EPIC bought the VIP Baystealth plant in LA. The redesigned w/ the new infusion mfg process. The front casting deck is HUGE due to the flare design on the hull. They are a great choice for Galveston. 

I see deals with the 175hp Evinrude for $34.9K +ttl. I believe you can upgrade to the Suzuki 200 for $36.9k +ttl. I heard the price will be going up in the next few months to about $44k w/ 175hp motor.

In my opinion the 175 is slightly under powered but the hull is limited to speed and not much more HP's will net you an increase.


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## swood

I bought the Lime Green Epic from Ron Hoover in Galveston last spring......They have fixed some hull issues that the 13's had...Really love the boat, and I think the E-tec 175 is just fine........


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## yellowskeeter

So 761 views and no bad comments. Got to believe you got your answer.


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## Truckmaniac

yellowskeeter said:


> So 761 views and no bad comments. Got to believe you got your answer.


Thought I had my answer until I read the following post:



swood said:


> I bought the Lime Green Epic from Ron Hoover in Galveston last spring......They have fixed some hull issues that the 13's had...Really love the boat, and I think the E-tec 175 is just fine........


Do you have any details on what the hull issues were and how they fixed them?

How do you like your Lime Green Epic and do you have anything in particular about it that you'd change or is disappointing?


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## swood

Not to make a long story, rod holder box was pressing against hull, caused spider crack. Epic paid for fix, looks like they fixed problem from from factory with the new hulls. Not a big deal, shaved it down fixed in couple days. Love layout, tons of fishing deck space. Jump seats super big and comfortable, makes wife like it too! Looked at nautic, close in price range, 100% happy!


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## capt. david

I have ran many different boats in the years. New and old. If I was going to spend that kind of money I would look for a older Boston Whaler, recondition the boat and be done! Nothing else compares.


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## Truckmaniac

capt. david said:


> I have ran many different boats in the years. New and old. If I was going to spend that kind of money I would look for a older Boston Whaler, recondition the boat and be done! Nothing else compares.


Thanks for the reply, but I'm going to buy a new or exceptionally nice used boat. I've had my share of "projects" through the years and don't need another one.

I did look at some of the Boston Whaler boats, but didn't find a model that was really suited to bass fishing.

My new boat won't ever see a bay, ocean or any type of salt water.

Freshwater Only!


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## whistlingdixie

Truckmaniac said:


> Thanks for the reply, but I'm going to buy a new or exceptionally nice used boat. I've had my share of "projects" through the years and don't need another one.
> 
> I did look at some of the Boston Whaler boats, but didn't find a model that was really suited to bass fishing.
> 
> My new boat won't ever see a bay, ocean or any type of salt water.
> 
> Freshwater Only!


As a bass fisherman wouldn't you want a little bit lower profile boat?


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## Truckmaniac

whistlingdixie said:


> As a bass fisherman wouldn't you want a little bit lower profile boat?


I fish a lot at Lake Amistad which, do to it's size can be pretty intense at times, especially when the wind picks up unexpectedly. Trying to navigate for 10 or 12 miles in 3 to 4 foot waves in a bass boat can be a "white knuckle" experience.

My last few trips to Amistad were in a Ranger 211 Reata. It handled the waves much better. The front casing deck is somewhat of a compromise and rod storage was minimal at best. You get three big guys all fishing off the same side and you realize that a boat with a wider beam would sure be nice.

Do you have a recommendation for a center console with a lower profile that will also handle big freshwater lakes?


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## greenfinder

Truckmaniac said:


> I fish a lot at Lake Amistad which, do to it's size can be pretty intense at times, especially when the wind picks up unexpectedly. Trying to navigate for 10 or 12 miles in 3 to 4 foot waves in a bass boat can be a "white knuckle" experience.
> 
> My last few trips to Amistad were in a Ranger 211 Reata. It handled the waves much better. The front casing deck is somewhat of a compromise and rod storage was minimal at best. You get three big guys all fishing off the same side and you realize that a boat with a wider beam would sure be nice.
> 
> Do you have a recommendation for a center console with a lower profile that will also handle big freshwater lakes?


I think Pathfinder actually makes a freshwater version (likely lower cost)...the same company also makes cobia boats which are very nice and lower cost and would fit your needs.....look up maverick boat company who makes them both


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## Truckmaniac

*Pulled the trigger*

Even though I haven't actually set foot on an Epic 22SC, I went ahead and put a deposit on a 2014 model. If it's everything that the dealer says it is and it passes my "quality inspection", I'll bring it home this this weekend or early next week.

I really like the vivid colors that Epic offers, so I went with the ORANGE.

It will be equipped with an Evinrude 200HP ETEC High Output, hydraulic jack plate, swim platform w/ladder, 101 Fortrex with foot control & Universal Sonar (I will use the boat for bass fishing - no salt water), 4 bank MinnKota Charger, in-line cartridge type fuel/water separator, (2) matching fishing seats, 8' Talon, HDS7 & HDS5, transom saver, DECKadence Marine Flooring, console toe-kick lighting and an aluminum tandem axle trailer with spare.

I'll report back with my initial impressions at the time I take delivery and since there aren't any in-depth reviews of the 22SC by an actual Epic Owner, I plan to be the first, so stay tuned.


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## yellowskeeter

Congrats and do keep us posted.


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## rwnitro

Truckmaniac, I saw an article yesterday on austinbassfishing.com that you and others may want to look at. Scroll down to the Boats and Motors section and read the post by LeeW , titled, "Epic 22sc boat with paper hull". I do not know LeeW and he is new to ABF but it is an interesting report.


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## rwnitro

I also forgot to add, I have seen pictures of the orange boat and it is a very good looking boat. There is a black one in the Austin area, the owner does post on ABF, I know he decked it out with Supernova fishing lights. I fell in love with the Epic's when I first saw them but my old, paid for Nitro will continue to serve me. Congrats on your purchase, you have good taste and I hope the Epic will serve you well. If there is a problem with the hull, perhaps you can get clarification on what is and what is not covered by warranty before taking delivery


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## ut755ln

If I was going to fish salt in one, i would redo the electrical connections.


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## Fish44

*Why replace the connections*



ut755ln said:


> If I was going to fish salt in one, i would redo the electrical connections.


What's wrong with the connections?


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## ThePartsMan

I looked at an Epic in Houston last weekend on my way to the dealer to purchase my Nautic Star. I was impressed. Good fit and finish. Tons of space. 200HP Suzuki. No jack plate or trim tabs for a price of 34K. I pounded a bit on the hull in various places and it did not seem too sturdy to me. Unlike the hulls of Blue Wave / Nautic Star. The dealer was hell bent on selling me one saying that his asking price was less than NADA on a used one, etc, etc. I figure if the salesman had to put that much effort into telling me how great it was, etc, etc, then I should stick to proven brands of boats that sell themselves. I just did not want a boat with a Bayliner resale value. Perhaps they are great boats, but I just did not feel comfortable with it. My 2 cents.....


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## andre3k

Did the hull dent or crack when you pounded on it? How did it feel not sturdy?

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk 2


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## ut755ln

Fish44 said:


> What's wrong with the connections?


 I like the connections to have some level of salt corrosion prevention. The Epic that I saw didn't have Deutsch connectors. They weren't shrink wrapped, they didn't appear to be coated/varnished in any way.

I liked the look of the boat, the resin infusion process is best in class in terms of saturation and avoiding voids. The rest of the boat in my opinion was very average to below average in terms of the chosen components (wiring, pumps, gaskets) ect..

If you are going to build a 22' boat at this price point, just keep in mind that they cut corners somewhere.

Most of the things I mentioned could be remedied with a little hard work. Deutsch connectors are not expensive, neither is a crimping/stripping tool.


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## ThePartsMan

When I pounded various spots on the hull there was inward movement. When I pushed up on the bow as if to lift the front of the boat off of the trailer, there was significant amounts of creaking noises. The hull did not seem sturdy enough for me. There is a guy who posted on the Austin fishing board who has an epic and went over a stump and the hull got damaged. Epic would not warranty the hull. I am anxious to see the long term results for these boats. In my opinion, it is another "Bayliner". Looks good for a while, then falls apart. I could be wrong though. For the sake of the buyers of these, I hope that they prove me wrong.


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## BATWING

Wiring Comment. When I went to look at this boat I was not impressed with the wiring. The connections are probably just as good as any other but it was sloppy at best. Sloppy meaning it looked like they just tried to use minimum wire from point to point. No bundles or channeled together just a free for all.

Imagine, you go in your attic and you see cables running everywhere vs going to the junction box and seeing everything nice and neat. Personally I would have liked to see a more professional job or do it so I would not see it upon inspection. 

Once i lifted a few hatches I did not like what I saw. Other than that it seemed like a great boat.


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## whistlingdixie

Not bashing boats but there is a reason some boats cost 34k and others cost 80k. Do you want to buy the boat that is the cheapest and expect to have a good quality boat?


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## CAPSIZED

exactly! That boat maybe fine for a casual weekend trip but don't expect it to withstand years of punishment. And good luck with resale. Congrats to that sales person. Who buys a boat without a test ride or even seeing it?



whistlingdixie said:


> Not bashing boats but there is a reason some boats cost 34k and others cost 80k. Do you want to buy the boat that is the cheapest and expect to have a good quality boat?


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## cg_wilson2003

ThePartsMan said:


> When I pounded various spots on the hull there was inward movement. When I pushed up on the bow as if to lift the front of the boat off of the trailer, there was significant amounts of creaking noises. The hull did not seem sturdy enough for me. There is a guy who posted on the Austin fishing board who has an epic and went over a stump and the hull got damaged. Epic would not warranty the hull. I am anxious to see the long term results for these boats. In my opinion, it is another "Bayliner". Looks good for a while, then falls apart. I could be wrong though. For the sake of the buyers of these, I hope that they prove me wrong.


Why would you expect any boat manufacture to fix under warranty a hull if it ran into a solid object?


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## ThePartsMan

Read the post at: 
http://www.austinbassfishing.com/forum/boats-motors/39760-epic-22sc-boat-paper-thin-hull-2.html


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## Truckmaniac

*Sledge Hammer Test*

Here's a video of a guy beating on the side of an Epic 23V hull with a 20 pound sledge hammer. I know that the 23V isn't a 22SC but it is built with the same Resin Infused process. Resin Infusion is top-shelf construction!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFUyKW5_Mrs

Many other boat manufacturer's use this process.

Maverick, Cobia, Pathfinder and Hewes watercraft incorporate legendary design, the highest safety standards and plenty of features and creature -
comforts. But they also are built of the highest quality materials using the latest in boat building technology. The new production method that sets Maverick Boat Company apart from other manufacturers is its progressive molding method VARIS or vacuum assisted resin infusion system used to build the five speedy, dry and shallow drafted Maverick brand Mirage
models.

I've been around several BayLiner boats and after coresponding to many Epic Owners, know that the Epic isn't a BayLiner. The gelgoat on most Bayliners is so thin that you can actually see the weaving in the fiberglass mats. Now that's thin!

I haven't *bought* the Epic sight unseen. As I said in my last post, I put a deposit on the boat (refundable) and don't have to take it if it doesn't pass my own Quality Inspection. I've been running Ranger Comanche bass boats for the last 15 years, so I know a thing or two about quality. Will the Epic compete with the quality of a Ranger? I don't think so. Does it cost as much as a Ranger? NO! (The Ranger is $25K to $30K more) Will it be better than the Bay Cat that I owned? I think most anything would be better.


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## yellowskeeter

I think its a good decision and would definately be on my list with that price point criteria and usage. They are out there being used, that's for sure. They look great in the water and out as well. We expect detailed pics, a review and some slime reports from you soon!


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## Truckmaniac

All of the dealers that I've visited with (Service people, not just Salesmen) are very please with these boats so far. Yes, there were a few problems in the beginning but Epic is taking care of them and continually improving the boat, not just at the start of the new model year but during the model year, as they find things that need to be changed or that can be improved.

Per the Dealers that I've personally visited with, not my own observations:

The largest number of complaints was the adhesive used for the decals on the side of the boat coming loose. That has been fixed.

The only Major problems that they've seen or heard about are:

A handful of the first boats produced had rod lockers that were made too long and when the top cap (deck) was installed into the hulls it put pressure against the inside of the hull. This caused the gelcoat to crack at that point and Epic has made repairs or will make repairs to all affected boats.

The adhesive used to fuse the top cap (deck) to the hull on some of the pre-production boats was incompatible and the bond didn't hold. 

Every dealer that I talked with said that this boat should be priced at $42K to $45K based on it's quality, innovation and features. They say that Epic is simply buying it's way into the market and once it gets established as a Major player will begin raising it's prices and will start producing more bay boat models.

Ever heard of Crownline Boats? I bought one the first year they were produced. They were cheap (price wise), compared to any other comparably equipped boat but raised the bar on quality and innovation in their market. Folks (other Marine manufacturers) back then said that they were "too good to be true" and at that price "they were one step above a Bayliner". Boy, were those Folks wrong! I owned 3 of them and they were some of the best boats that I've had in 38+ years of boating.

I'm hoping that Epic is the next Crownline!


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## Fish44

*They are out there.*



yellowskeeter said:


> I think its a good decision and would definately be on my list with that price point criteria and usage. They are out there being used, that's for sure.


Definitely will more on the water, my dealer sold 5 in the last 2 months. He seems to sell lots of high $$ Pathfinders and for the mid 30 to 40s range boat the Epic.


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## BATWING

Interesting. Guy was using with trolling motor and hull got ripped from that on a stump. I bet oyster shell would be a bit more trouble.


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## Truckmaniac

It would be great if some of the Epic Owner's here on the forum could go out, push & pound on their boat hulls and let us know if they think that the hull is "Paper Thin".

Since Epic uses the Resin Infusion process, I would think that the hull would be thinner, but paper thin?????

I'm going to call the Epic factory this morning and will report back with my findings.


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## whistlingdixie

Truckmaniac said:


> All of the dealers that I've visited with (Service people, not just Salesmen) are very please with these boats so far. Yes, there were a few problems in the beginning but Epic is taking care of them and continually improving the boat, not just at the start of the new model year but during the model year, as they find things that need to be changed or that can be improved.
> 
> Per the Dealers that I've personally visited with, not my own observations:
> 
> The largest number of complaints was the adhesive used for the decals on the side of the boat coming loose. That has been fixed.
> 
> The only Major problems that they've seen or heard about are:
> 
> A handful of the first boats produced had rod lockers that were made too long and when the top cap (deck) was installed into the hulls it put pressure against the inside of the hull. This caused the gelcoat to crack at that point and Epic has made repairs or will make repairs to all affected boats.
> 
> The adhesive used to fuse the top cap (deck) to the hull on some of the pre-production boats was incompatible and the bond didn't hold.
> 
> Every dealer that I talked with said that this boat should be priced at $42K to $45K based on it's quality, innovation and features. They say that Epic is simply buying it's way into the market and once it gets established as a Major player will begin raising it's prices and will start producing more bay boat models.
> 
> Ever heard of Crownline Boats? I bought one the first year they were produced. They were cheap (price wise), compared to any other comparably equipped boat but raised the bar on quality and innovation in their market. Folks (other Marine manufacturers) back then said that they were "too good to be true" and at that price "they were one step above a Bayliner". Boy, were those Folks wrong! I owned 3 of them and they were some of the best boats that I've had in 38+ years of boating.
> 
> I'm hoping that Epic is the next Crownline!


You better hope not. Crownline has gone out of business how many times? Again I am not trying to bash a boat but every dealer that sells that boat is going to talk highly of it. If they talked bad about it they would not sell any. I have seen the boat up close and I agree it is an attractive boat but until a boat has been out long enough for wear and tear to occur then no one can say it is the next best thing. Only time will tell with this one and I hope for the best.


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## Truckmaniac

*Update on the "Thin Hull" Story*



BATWING said:


> Interesting. Guy was using with trolling motor and hull got ripped from that on a stump. I bet oyster shell would be a bit more trouble.


I talked at length with Ashley at Epic Boats concerning the "thin Hull" issue claims by the guy on the bass fishing forum. Ashley personally examined the damaged hull last Friday and there is a lot more to the story than what the owner of the boat has let on.

At first, the guy claims that he didn't know that his boat was damaged until he loaded it on the trailer. Then he changes his story to "the damage was done when rolling off of some stumps". What actually happened was that he hit a floating log/tree while running at 30-35 mph. There were marks on the bottom of the boat, nearly the entire length of the hull, along with a couple of large punctures in the hull with wood driven up into the hull. The wood shavings that they removed would fill up a plastic sandwich bag. The water pick-ups for the livewells that are located on the transom had been ripped-off the back of the boat. There wasn't any "air pocket" or "void" area between the gelcoat and fiberglass, as the owner claimed.

Bottom Line: There wasn't a problem with the hull as the owner claimed. A fast moving boat and a floating log is a recipe for disaster.

Now you know the rest of the story.


----------



## DIHLON

Truckmaniac said:


> I talked at length with Ashley at Epic Boats concerning the "thin Hull" issue claims by the guy on the bass fishing forum. Ashley personally examined the damaged hull last Friday and there is a lot more to the story than what the owner of the boat has let on.
> 
> At first, the guy claims that he didn't know that his boat was damaged until he loaded it on the trailer. Then he changes his story to "the damage was done when rolling off of some stumps". What actually happened was that he hit a floating log/tree while running at 30-35 mph. There were marks on the bottom of the boat, nearly the entire length of the hull, along with a couple of large punctures in the hull with wood driven up into the hull. The wood shavings that they removed would fill up a plastic sandwich bag. The water pick-ups for the livewells that are located on the transom had been ripped-off the back of the boat. There wasn't any "air pocket" or "void" area between the gelcoat and fiberglass, as the owner claimed.
> 
> Bottom Line: There wasn't a problem with the hull as the owner claimed. A fast moving boat and a floating log is a recipe for disaster.
> 
> Now you know the rest of the story.


How would the water pick-ups, located on the transom, even get touched if he was running 30-35 mph?


----------



## Truckmaniac

DIHLON said:


> How would the water pick-ups, located on the transom, even get touched if he was running 30-35 mph?


They are located at the very bottom of the transom, at the pad/running surface of the hull, which would put them in harms-way when the log/tree rolled off the running surface.

I wonder if there was any damage to his lower unit on the outboard?


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## DIHLON

I hit a log in my new boat running ~40 mph and the only damage I found was some wood stuck in the front of my lower unit. No damage at all to the hull.


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## Fish44

*Sooner or Later - hopefully much later*

My friend likes to remind me sooner or later I am going to hit/run over something or run aground, so when I do I will report back on my Epic hull. Hopefully it a report no one will hear for a long time.


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## Truckmaniac

DIHLON said:


> I hit a log in my new boat running ~40 mph and the only damage I found was some wood stuck in the front of my lower unit. No damage at all to the hull.


I guess the amount of damage depends on the size & shape of the log, whether or not it has any branches, if you hit it at an angle, parallel to it or perpendicular to it.

Ashley was in Military Special Forces prior to his career in the boating industry and has a passion for guns, hunting & fishing. He told me that, just for "grins" he took some pieces of hull material scraps to his place and shot them with various weapons to see just how tough the resin infused material is. He shot various calibers of handguns & rifles, up to 9MM without penetrating the hull material. A 44 MAG did penetrate, but the bullet was severely mushroomed, so it didn't go through easily.

I would recommend that all logs be avoided if at all possible. I would also recommend using your Epic as a "shield", in the event that you are being fired at by Drug Runners on the Mexico border (Lake Falcon for example).


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## whistlingdixie

Truckmaniac said:


> I guess the amount of damage depends on the size & shape of the log, whether or not it has any branches, if you hit it at an angle, parallel to it or perpendicular to it.
> 
> Ashley was in Military Special Forces prior to his career in the boating industry and has a passion for guns, hunting & fishing. He told me that, just for "grins" he took some pieces of hull material scraps to his place and shot them with various weapons to see just how tough the resin infused material is. He shot various calibers of handguns & rifles, up to 9MM without penetrating the hull material. A 44 MAG did penetrate, but the bullet was severely mushroomed, so it didn't go through easily.
> 
> I would recommend that all logs be avoided if at all possible. I would also recommend using your Epic as a "shield", in the event that you are being fired at by Drug Runners on the Mexico border (Lake Falcon for example).


so for $34 I can have a bullet proof boat too. That is a steal


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## yellowskeeter

This log think cracks me up! Almost like the people in bay boats saying their boat runs good in 3'-5' waves........

I've been in the boat business for a while and have seen the best boats with terrible damage from hitting something small and some boats hit big things with no problems. There are so many variables........ Sort of like a 2x4 in a tornado going clear through a house, buildings and even trees. Just way to many variables. To nock a boat because some guy hit something and damaged the hull, well then we need to go ahead and put all boats on that list. But like most new things that come up on a forum, and have seen it so many times in here, let's nock it since we are such experts. Heck, just look at the tiburon that hit land!!!!! Minimal damage in retrospect with a hull built at the same factory using the same process as this Epic. My skeeter would have been doubled over and looked like an exploding cigar from a cartoon.


----------



## Fish44

*Agree*



yellowskeeter said:


> This log think cracks me up! Almost like the people in bay boats saying their boat runs good in 3'-5' waves........
> 
> I've been in the boat business for a while and have seen the best boats with terrible damage from hitting something small and some boats hit big things with no problems. There are so many variables........ Sort of like a 2x4 in a tornado going clear through a house, buildings and even trees. Just way to many variables. To nock a boat because some guy hit something and damaged the hull, well then we need to go ahead and put all boats on that list. But like most new things that come up on a forum, and have seen it so many times in here, let's nock it since we are such experts. Heck, just look at the tiburon that hit land!!!!! Minimal damage in retrospect with a hull built at the same factory using the same process as this Epic. My skeeter would have been doubled over and looked like an exploding cigar from a cartoon.


Your post is on target to me. Those Tiburon are at good looking boat, in their videos they are getting shallow. Guys pushing the boat in ankle deep water. Wish they would post a few more pic on their website.


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## RedXCross

All of this [email protected] cracks me up.



yellowskeeter said:


> This log think cracks me up! Almost like the people in bay boats saying their boat runs good in 3'-5' waves........
> 
> I've been in the boat business for a while and have seen the best boats with terrible damage from hitting something small and some boats hit big things with no problems. There are so many variables........ Sort of like a 2x4 in a tornado going clear through a house, buildings and even trees. Just way to many variables. To nock a boat because some guy hit something and damaged the hull, well then we need to go ahead and put all boats on that list. But like most new things that come up on a forum, and have seen it so many times in here, let's nock it since we are such experts. Heck, just look at the tiburon that hit land!!!!! Minimal damage in retrospect with a hull built at the same factory using the same process as this Epic. My skeeter would have been doubled over and looked like an exploding cigar from a cartoon.


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## bigred88

lipstick on a pig!


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## Truckmaniac

bigred88 said:


> lipstick on a pig!


*??????????*


----------



## KingOfBacklash

Interesting discussion... I picked one up a couple of weeks ago and I've only had it out a couple of times but I'm happy to report that it still floats...

You can mess up anything if you try hard enough.

As for the boat itself, I'm a newbie so my opinion isn't based on years of experience in the industry or any other qualifications. It seems well made enough to me and family/friends with lots of boating background can't find anything wrong with it. I had 2 pretty large guys hanging on to the grab rails in some decent chop last Saturday and the center console seemed solid. Fit and finish everywhere else is acceptable to me. All of the hatches line up and lock just fine. No rattles or other external signs of sub par construction. I saw mention of the wiring not being up to some standard. Again, I don't have a lot to compare it to but it's not a birdsnest when you look under the console. There was room on the bus to power the GPS and everything was neatly bundled. There's really not a lot of wiring anyway so I'm not sure what the big deal is even if you had to replace some connectors at some point.

Anyhow, for the money I'm satisfied. It's not as nice as my buddy's Shearwater but it was also half the price. I think it rides just as good and possibly even drier but I haven't had it out in a wide variety of conditions to make a fair comparison. If I had the money I'd buy a Yellowfin but I don't so this will have to do for now.

Boat came rigged with a 200 Suzuki. I'm still in the 10 hour break in period so I'm not sure what top speed will be but with 3 guys, a full tank of gas, 2 full live wells, ice chest, etc. it has no problem getting up on plane in a hurry. On the test ride, it showed 55 on the dash speedo but there wasn't a GPS to confirm that. That was with 4 adults and about 1/4 tank of gas. I put in a 740s last week so once I'm through the break in period I'll run it wide open and see what I get. It's fast enough for me so that's all that really matters. I spoke with Ashley at the factory and he claims he's seen 70 on a light load with a 250XS. Seems like a large jump in speed for 50HP but who knows.

My one complaint is that the wind really blows that sucker around when you are trying to dock. The Carolina flair on front of the boat seems to catch the wind more than most. Makes for a nice wide platform to fish off of and keeps the water from blowing in but holy **** I had a hard time docking it with a crosswind. It's my first boat though so it's probably 80% operator and 20% boat...

Feel free to ask my any questions.


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## yellowskeeter

pics?


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## DIHLON

KingOfBacklash said:


> Interesting discussion... I picked one up a couple of weeks ago and I've only had it out a couple of times but I'm happy to report that it still floats...
> 
> You can mess up anything if you try hard enough.
> 
> As for the boat itself, I'm a newbie so my opinion isn't based on years of experience in the industry or any other qualifications. It seems well made enough to me and family/friends with lots of boating background can't find anything wrong with it. I had 2 pretty large guys hanging on to the grab rails in some decent chop last Saturday and the center console seemed solid. Fit and finish everywhere else is acceptable to me. All of the hatches line up and lock just fine. No rattles or other external signs of sub par construction. I saw mention of the wiring not being up to some standard. Again, I don't have a lot to compare it to but it's not a birdsnest when you look under the console. There was room on the bus to power the GPS and everything was neatly bundled. There's really not a lot of wiring anyway so I'm not sure what the big deal is even if you had to replace some connectors at some point.
> 
> Anyhow, for the money I'm satisfied. It's not as nice as my buddy's Shearwater but it was also half the price. I think it rides just as good and possibly even drier but I haven't had it out in a wide variety of conditions to make a fair comparison. If I had the money I'd buy a Yellowfin but I don't so this will have to do for now.
> 
> Boat came rigged with a 200 Suzuki. I'm still in the 10 hour break in period so I'm not sure what top speed will be but with 3 guys, a full tank of gas, 2 full live wells, ice chest, etc. it has no problem getting up on plane in a hurry. On the test ride, it showed 55 on the dash speedo but there wasn't a GPS to confirm that. That was with 4 adults and about 1/4 tank of gas. I put in a 740s last week so once I'm through the break in period I'll run it wide open and see what I get. It's fast enough for me so that's all that really matters. I spoke with Ashley at the factory and he claims he's seen 70 on a light load with a 250XS. Seems like a large jump in speed for 50HP but who knows.
> 
> My one complaint is that the wind really blows that sucker around when you are trying to dock. The Carolina flair on front of the boat seems to catch the wind more than most. Makes for a nice wide platform to fish off of and keeps the water from blowing in but holy **** _I had a hard time docking it with a crosswind_. It's my first boat though so it's probably 80% operator and 20% boat...
> 
> Feel free to ask my any questions.


It's not just that boat. I almost ripped my trolling motor off my boat last friday due to a crosswind. I was trying to avoid the dock, and pilings and the trolling motor caught one of the pilings.


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## KingOfBacklash

Let's see if this works.

I only have the one from the day I brought it home...










On the docking, I've docked plenty of wakeboard boats, pontoon boats, etc. and never had an issue like I did Saturday. I just need to practice more. It must have been the audience! I'm surprised no one got it on camera. I turned about 5 circles trying to get lined up.

PS, this only able to post once every 2 hours is going to make life difficult. Is there a way to pay for a membership to get around that or do I just have to tough it out?

Edit: Skydrive doesn't want to display the pic so click here if you're curious http://sdrv.ms/1c2lD79


----------



## Fish44

*Prop Type*

Boat came rigged with a 200 Suzuki. I'm still in the 10 hour break in period so I'm not sure what top speed will be but with 3 guys, a full tank of gas, 2 full live wells, ice chest, etc. it has no problem getting up on plane in a hurry. On the test ride, it showed 55 on the dash speedo but there wasn't a GPS to confirm that.

Thanks for the update. 55 is very good for not being WOT. Most of the Epic owners I know who have the Evinrude 200 are coming with either Viper or Rebel props with a 21 pitch. Can you tell me what kind of prop your boat came with and pitch would like to compare. I am still working to max out WOT as close to 6000 rpm as possible, I am at 5300, my prop may get me into the upper 5000 range once I figure the boat out better.


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## Profish00

KingOfBacklash said:


> PS, this only able to post once every 2 hours is going to make life difficult. Is there a way to pay for a membership to get around that or do I just have to tough it out?


you need more posts, till you have like 25 your limited


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## Truckmaniac

KingOfBacklash said:


> Interesting discussion... Feel free to ask my any questions.


I haven't had my new Epic to the lake yet, but I've heard from other owners that when they put their boat on the trailer and pull the drain plug that there is a large amount of water in the bilge. They don't seem to know if it's a plumbing, live-well, baitwell, transom mounted water pick-up or a drain issue.

Have you seen an abnormally large amount of water coming out of the bilge when you pull the drain plug on your 22SC?


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## Yankee

Truckmaniac, I have the same issue with water. I need to try to find out where the issue is but I'm always fishing when I'm on the water. I usually don't pull the plug after trailering but run the bilge to see if there is any water inside. It sounds like a common issue on all the boats, I'm thinking maybe the drain or water pick up since it is common on all the boats if you know what I mean. Have you talked to Ashley about this?


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## KingOfBacklash

Fish, I'll check the prop pitch next time I'm at the storage facility. I have no clue what it is...

25 posts with 2 hour gaps? I'm going to have to set a timer and just post some random stuff!

Water in the bilge... First time out I didn't have a wrench on me so I just hand tightened it. Was that stupid? I'm from Louisiana so I play a little fast and loose with safety etiquette! Kidding! Kind of... Launched in Kemah, went out to Eagle Point, over to Redfish Island and back keeping it around 3000 RPM so I was out there for over an hour farting around. When I pulled the plug, some water came out but nothing to write home about. Not enough to fill a medium sized soda up. Subsequent trips where I've tightened the plug with a wrench = a few drops of water. And I'm filling up/draining the live wells so there's nothing leaking in any of that plumbing as far as I can tell. I'll definitely keep an eye on it but it hasn't stood out as something to be concerned about.

See y'all in a couple of hours.


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## yellowskeeter

My skeeter never gets water in it after using it, well that is after you drain a gallon or so! Ha! No matter how its been chased, water always seems to find it way in the hull. It has not worried me enough to look at it much farther than I have, but I will bet that I have a leaky hose going from my deck drains to my scuppers.


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## SeaY'all

Not because I have a skeeter for sale but, curious as to why not go back to a skeeter. They have big casting platforms and you can put a seat in the front and on the back deck. They draft a little shallower and in my experience run the chop of the big bays smooth and dry with a quick tap on the trim tabs.


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## KingOfBacklash

SeaY'all said:


> Not because I have a skeeter for sale but, curious as to why not go back to a skeeter. They have big casting platforms and you can put a seat in the front and on the back deck. They draft a little shallower and in my experience run the chop of the big bays smooth and dry with a quick tap on the trim tabs.


I'm really only replying to up my post count to get out of this 7200 second phase but can you get a new Skeeter for anywhere near 35 grand?

I'm sure they are nice boats and "better" in some measurable way but used boats are a gamble some people don't want to deal with. To that end, there's really not a lot of competition out there in this price range. Granted it was a little dinky boat show but last month in Seabrook there wasn't anything in the same ballpark to the Epic. That Yellowfin sure was nice though! BlueWave would be a close second from what I saw. Nautic Star had some OK stuff too but both of those were more money and not obviously better construction.


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## SeaY'all

KingOfBacklash said:


> I'm really only replying to up my post count to get out of this 7200 second phase but can you get a new Skeeter for anywhere near 35 grand?
> 
> I'm sure they are nice boats and "better" in some measurable way but used boats are a gamble some people don't want to deal with. To that end, there's really not a lot of competition out there in this price range. Granted it was a little dinky boat show but last month in Seabrook there wasn't anything in the same ballpark to the Epic. That Yellowfin sure was nice though! BlueWave would be a close second from what I saw. Nautic Star had some OK stuff too but both of those were more money and not obviously better construction.


I think you can step down to the new 20ft skeeter for around that. I havnt checked the list on them. I was at the boatober fest last month too. There was really nothing there. Bluewave has been coming out with better fit and finish of late. My only gripe is that for the tunnel hull, it has that triangulated bow. It doesn't appeal to me. Not all used boats are a gamble but, I wouldnt take a chance on something more than 5 years old.


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## whistlingdixie

KingOfBacklash said:


> I'm really only replying to up my post count to get out of this 7200 second phase but can you get a new Skeeter for anywhere near 35 grand?
> 
> I'm sure they are nice boats and "better" in some measurable way but used boats are a gamble some people don't want to deal with. To that end, *there's really not a lot of competition out there in this price range*. Granted it was a little dinky boat show but last month in Seabrook there wasn't anything in the same ballpark to the Epic. That Yellowfin sure was nice though! BlueWave would be a close second from what I saw. Nautic Star had some OK stuff too but both of those were more money and not obviously better construction.


The $34k-$40k 22' bay boat market is huge. A lot of well built boats that have been out for decades are competing in that class. They build them in all shapes and sizes and a lot of them are going to the infamous "Carolina Hull" for ride, stability and bow space. I may be wrong in saying it but I am going to go out on a limb and say that is the most competitive bay boat market right now for bay boat sales across the country.


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## Profish00

KingOfBacklash said:


> I'm really only replying to up my post count to get out of this 7200 second phase


I might be less than 25,, so keep going:smile:


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## Fish44

*competitive boat*



whistlingdixie said:


> The $34k-$40k 22' bay boat market is huge. A lot of well built boats that have been out for decades are competing in that class. They build them in all shapes and sizes and a lot of them are going to the infamous "Carolina Hull" for ride, stability and bow space. I may be wrong in saying it but I am going to go out on a limb and say that is the most competitive bay boat market right now for bay boat sales across the country.


 I have no idea about the sales data but would agree they are probably most competitive right now. At that price you have to at minimum give them a look if you are buying in 30 to 45k range bay boat. I changed the scale some because to me some might think 45K boats may not worth spending another 10K for and boats in the low 30k were less boat and for a couple more K get the Epic. A lot of Epic owners I talk with are strickly freshwater guys, so its taking some of that market also. My dealer seems to be selling lots of high end Pathfinders but in the middle market Epic is selling hot. I will be interested to see if Epic is at the Houston January show, they were not last year that I know of. I was looking at Carolina Skiffs and saw then saw the Epic.


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## KingOfBacklash

whistlingdixie said:


> The $34k-$40k 22' bay boat market is huge. A lot of well built boats that have been out for decades are competing in that class. They build them in all shapes and sizes and a lot of them are going to the infamous "Carolina Hull" for ride, stability and bow space. I may be wrong in saying it but I am going to go out on a limb and say that is the most competitive bay boat market right now for bay boat sales across the country.


Not trying to start a contest or defend my decision but what I meant to portray was that all things considered (including price), this was the clear winner for me. There have always been and will always be boats in every price range. Some might be 4 feet shorter, stripped out, come with a 115HP engine, etc. My criteria was at least 22 ft with some sort of built in seating for the family. Primary use will be in the Galveston bay system and I have no requirement to get super skinny.

So I guess it depends on how you define market. If you want to define it as strictly a price range, then yeah, lots of stuff to choose from of all shapes and sizes. I define it as a boat with a particular feature set and as far as that goes, line up anything with similar specs to the Epic and see what it costs. Not cheaper for sure and anywhere from a little to a lot more.

Again, didn't want it to turn into a who's boat is better discussion which is why I hesitated to reply in the first place...


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## whistlingdixie

KingOfBacklash said:


> Not trying to start a contest or defend my decision but what I meant to portray was that all things considered (including price), this was the clear winner for me. There have always been and will always be boats in every price range. Some might be 4 feet shorter, stripped out, come with a 115HP engine, etc. My criteria was at least 22 ft with some sort of built in seating for the family. Primary use will be in the Galveston bay system and I have no requirement to get super skinny.
> 
> So I guess it depends on how you define market. If you want to define it as strictly a price range, then yeah, lots of stuff to choose from of all shapes and sizes. I define it as a boat with a particular feature set and as far as that goes, line up anything with similar specs to the Epic and see what it costs. Not cheaper for sure and anywhere from a little to a lot more.
> 
> Again, didn't want it to turn into a who's boat is better discussion which is why I hesitated to reply in the first place...


Yea I did not want to degrade your purchase because you bought what you liked but I also wanted to let you know that the particular layout and style boat that the Epic 22 has with jump seats, leaning post and seat in front of the console is the most competitive bay boat markets in the Country. Your top selling bay boats come out of that particular market ie Sea Hunt, Sea Fox, Sportsman, Key West, Nautic Star, Blue Wave, Cobia, Pioneer, Tidewater, Ranger (Bahia series), and Blazer Bay just to name a few that you can find from multiple dealers here in Texas. I am sure I missed a lot but these are the ones you can find at the Houston Boat Show which just represents one type of market and these are going to be the most sold boats in that market because they are aimed at the family fisherman who is more of a weekend warrior then a hardcore tournament angler. Most of the builders of these boats have been building bay boats for nearly two decades and the trends have changed but the market has always stayed the same.


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## KingOfBacklash

whistlingdixie said:


> Yea I did not want to degrade your purchase because you bought what you liked but I also wanted to let you know that the particular layout and style boat that the Epic 22 has with jump seats, leaning post and seat in front of the console is the most competitive bay boat markets in the Country. Your top selling bay boats come out of that particular market ie Sea Hunt, Sea Fox, Sportsman, Key West, Nautic Star, Blue Wave, Cobia, Pioneer, Tidewater, Ranger (Bahia series), and Blazer Bay just to name a few that you can find from multiple dealers here in Texas. I am sure I missed a lot but these are the ones you can find at the Houston Boat Show which just represents one type of market and these are going to be the most sold boats in that market because they are aimed at the family fisherman who is more of a weekend warrior then a hardcore tournament angler. Most of the builders of these boats have been building bay boats for nearly two decades and the trends have changed but the market has always stayed the same.


My original statement was "there's really not a lot of competition out there in this price range". Perhaps I didn't phrase that the best but much of what you listed is significantly more. $5000 is almost 15% more than $35K so when you start pushing past that, I'm not even shopping for those boats.

Granted I did not go to every boat dealer in a 200 mile radius but who does? Part of the problem is that a lot of places don't price things online. There's only so much effort I'm going to put into it and my experiences with calling around for a price didn't go well.

Sea Fox was the closest in price and I didn't feel it was as nice. I did look at some of the others you mentioned but again, 5 grand more is a significant jump IMO.

None of these are bad boats, I just didn't feel they held the same value for my needs. I would have been happy with any of the I'm sure.

SeaFox for $2000 less with 50 less HP.
http://www.boattrader.com/listing/2013-Sea-Fox-220-Viper-101944687

Here's a Blazer bay for almost 12 grand more.
http://www.boattrader.com/listing/2014-Blazer-Bay-2220-Fisherman-102100495

Could have bought a 2 year old Triton with less motor for a couple of grand more.
http://www.boattrader.com/listing/2012-Triton-220-LTS-Pro-102098621

At the end of the day it floats and I'm happy so that's all that counts!:brew2:


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## koyhoward

KingOfBacklash, it sounds like you made a very informed decision. Thank you for giving us your honest opinion of your new boat. Congrats by the way! 

I don't understand why people have to second guess his decision. He's obviously an intelligent guy, that made a well thought out decision on what boat was best for him and his family. Doesn't mean it would be the right one for you, but it was the right one for him. A simple congrats on the new boat goes a long way. 

Hope you and your family get many years of enjoyment out of your new ride!


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## KingOfBacklash

nosaltincentx said:


> KingOfBacklash, it sounds like you made a very informed decision. Thank you for giving us your honest opinion of your new boat. Congrats by the way!
> 
> I don't understand why people have to second guess his decision. He's obviously an intelligent guy, that made a well thought out decision on what boat was best for him and his family. Doesn't mean it would be the right one for you, but it was the right one for him. A simple congrats on the new boat goes a long way.
> 
> Hope you and your family get many years of enjoyment out of your new ride!


I don't think he was second guessing my decision, just misreading what I wrote (or I didn't phrase it clearly enough.)

I'm aware all of those other boats existed and I looked at all of them online. Some I called to get pricing on, some I didn't bother because I already knew it was going to be more than I was willing to spend. Some I took the time to go see but many I didn't.

I'm not knocking anyone who owns a different brand, you almost can't buy a bad boat these days. I'm well aware it's not the nicest thing on the water but I still haven't seen anything of similar value (to me!) for a new 2014 with a warranty. I'm sure there's old dealer stock of something nice hanging out somewhere but I wasn't interested in tracking that down. Wifey have the go ahead to buy a boat so I had to strike while the iron was hot!


----------



## koyhoward

KingOfBacklash said:


> I don't think he was second guessing my decision, just misreading what I wrote (or I didn't phrase it clearly enough.)
> 
> I'm aware all of those other boats existed and I looked at all of them online. Some I called to get pricing on, some I didn't bother because I already knew it was going to be more than I was willing to spend. Some I took the time to go see but many I didn't.
> 
> I'm not knocking anyone who owns a different brand, you almost can't buy a bad boat these days. I'm well aware it's not the nicest thing on the water but I still haven't seen anything of similar value (to me!) for a new 2014 with a warranty. I'm sure there's old dealer stock of something nice hanging out somewhere but I wasn't interested in tracking that down. Wifey have the go ahead to buy a boat so I had to strike while the iron was hot!


Wasn't singling any one person out, just something that you see a lot on here with people's purchases. Lots of great boats out there these days for sure!


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## KingOfBacklash

nosaltincentx said:


> Wasn't singling any one person out, just something that you see a lot on here with people's purchases. Lots of great boats out there these days for sure!


Yeah, which is why I normally wouldn't have even started down that path. All this discussion is strictly to up my post count!

Edit: Looks like that restriction is gone now so I can move on to other threads!


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## ST.SIMONS

Going through registration numbers Nautic Star leads the pack by a good margin. Enjoy the Epic and by the way, water should not be entering your bilge unless it's raining or you are taking on waves,and even then your bilge float switch should kick on. Epics price point is temporary as they are simply buying market share. Sea Fox did it and so did sportsman in recent years and Nautic Star has continued to be the best selling boat on the Texas coast with Blue Wave selling more some months. These are the Honda Accord and Toyota Camry of the bay boat world. These are facts and have been for 8 years running. I see all the registration numbers from parks and wildlife. I hope your Epic's have none of the problems that the Bay Stealths did like taking on water delaminates weak gel coat etc. good luck ...


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## KingOfBacklash

ST.SIMONS said:


> Going through registration numbers Nautic Star leads the pack by a good margin. Enjoy the Epic and by the way, water should not be entering your bilge unless it's raining or you are taking on waves,and even then your bilge float switch should kick on. Epics price point is temporary as they are simply buying market share. Sea Fox did it and so did sportsman in recent years and Nautic Star has continued to be the best selling boat on the Texas coast with Blue Wave selling more some months. These are the Honda Accord and Toyota Camry of the bay boat world. These are facts and have been for 8 years running. I see all the registration numbers from parks and wildlife. I hope your Epic's have none of the problems that the Bay Stealths did like taking on water delaminates weak gel coat etc. good luck ...


It would stand to reason that boats that have been for sale for the past 8 years would have more registrations than one which is only just starting its 2nd model year. A dealer like Ron Hoover that sell Epic, Blue Wave, and Nautic Star would be the best source of information on how the Epic is selling compared to those other brands. Additionally, those other brands carry several models and Epic is just one so I wouldn't look for the ratio of total registrations to shift much.

No offense but the number of registrations of other brands isn't a reason to "purchase or not" as the original poster started off asking. I'm glad you have access to registrations but your analysis of that data leaves a bit to be desired even if it was relevant...

As for buying market share, that would back up my position that there really wasn't any stiff competition at the price point. Other boats were available for sale at the same price but lacked features. Other boats competed favorably on features but from what I found were at least $5000 more.

As for water in the bilge, I haven't experienced it. A plumbing issue on a livewell could lead to water in the bilge as well. For those that are seeing it, may be a bad float switch or something is to blame but I wouldn't knock the boat brand over an accessory that craps out unless they refused to fix it. All brands give warranties so my assumption is that people take them up on that from time to time.

Considering it's new ownership, a new manufacturing technique, and at minimum a significant redesign of a baystealth hull although I don't think it's confirmed that's the mold they even started with. I've read Seahunter was the original source and google image search supports that. Perhaps Baystealth purchase the mold from Seahunter and then it ended up in Epic's hands? I'm not a Seahunter/Baystealt/Epic historian but if it's important to know, just call Epic and ask Ashley. He'll tell you all you want to know about the boat. Regardless, I can't see a hull design being the source of weak gel coat, etc. Sounds like manufacturing/materials. I imagine there's a reason Baystealth went out of business and there's a reason that Epic was in a position to open up shop in their place so until I see evidence otherwise, I'm not going to assume they will have the same issues...

Have you ever even been on an Epic? There are a lot of what if type scenarios floating around in this thread but very little direct experience which is to be expected with a new model so it is what it is. For others that find this thread genuinely looking for information relevant to a purchase decision, I'd encourage you to take EVERYTHING (including what I say since I'm a sample size of one) with a large grain of salt and just go find a dealer to check it out for yourself. It's not the perfect boat for everyone but if you like the features and are OK with what you see in the showroom, I would bet you will only be more impressed on a test drive.


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## ctcrop

Well said KoB! Enjoy that Epic!


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## KingOfBacklash

Someone asked about prop pitch... It's 3x16x20.

I'm slowly working my way through the break-in period so I still haven't run full out yet but I was really heavy this weekend and headed into the wind I was only seeing 45-46 @ 5000 RPM. There wasn't a lot of throttle left so I'm guessing we were very light on the test drive. Even if I only see 50 in real world conditions, that's fine with me. The front of this thing isn't very aerodynamic but I'll give up some speed to stay dry. I'm not in that much of a hurry.

I did manage to get it docked without slamming into any bulkheads this time so that's a plus! The tailwind was a lot more forgiving than that crosswind was...


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## Fish44

*48qt cooler fits nicely*

48qt cooler will fit nicely in front between cup holders, little bigger ice chest may fit, but I went with 48qt and will use for drinks. Cooler mounting kit was from T&H Marine, recommend after drilling starter hole to use screw driver to install screws, I used a drill on first few and it is to much power and can crack the plastic mounts.


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## Truckmaniac

Good looking install on the cooler!

I'm considering the 36 quart Igloo because it's a couple of inches shorter and I can use it for a step up to the front deck.

I'll load test an Igloo (to see if it can support my Santa Sized figure) before I buy. I'm hoping that I don't have to go with something more expensive (Engel, Yeti, etc.), just to support my weight.


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## RedXCross

I know, I know, I will catch chit for this buuuuut, Buy a 35qt. Yeti or Pelican etc. and be done with worrying about Santa's size. :tongue:



Truckmaniac said:


> Good looking install on the cooler!
> 
> I'm considering the 36 quart Igloo because it's a couple of inches shorter and I can use it for a step up to the front deck.
> 
> I'll load test an Igloo (to see if it can support my Santa Sized figure) before I buy. I'm hoping that I don't have to go with something more expensive (Engel, Yeti, etc.), just to support my weight.


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## KingOfBacklash

RedXCross said:


> I know, I know, I will catch chit for this buuuuut, Buy a 35qt. Yeti or Pelican etc. and be done with worrying about Santa's size. :tongue:


 Unless you want to replace it often, I'd pony up for something sturdy. For holding ice, the nicer coolers aren't really worth it but if you need to stand on it, they hold a significant advantage.

You can certainly buy several cheaper coolers for the price of a nice one though.


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## RedXCross

That's why it is a free market to do what one really wants to do.



KingOfBacklash said:


> Unless you want to replace it often, I'd pony up for something sturdy. For holding ice, the nicer coolers aren't really worth it but if you need to stand on it, they hold a significant advantage.
> 
> You can certainly buy several cheaper coolers for the price of a nice one though.


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## Salty_Dawg

Hey ya gents, I hope you get some sort of notice that I am posting on this old thread. I am in the market for a 25 foot Epic. Ron Hoover in Galveston told me Epic makes a 25 footer, but they don't haave any yet and don't have any brochures. Odd to me that Epic doesn't list a 25 foot boat on their website.

I really like the price of the Epics. I need a boat that will fish 4 old farts just about anywhere in the Galveston Bay system, plus hit the Jetties, and on a super calm day make it to the first rigs. So, I am looking for a center console bay boat, that will get to 16" or shallower with hydraulic jack plate, be reliable, have decent resale, and not cost 80 grand. In terms of floor plans, it looks like almost every manufacturer is in love with super huge fore and aft casting platforms and foot lockers, so a lot of deck real estate is consumed with storage and elevated platforms. Epic does seem to have some of the most same-level deck space.

I just wish I could verify that a 25' Epic exists, and see some pics of them.


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## KingOfBacklash

I heard someone mention this as well but I haven't seen any official documentation on it. My standard reply these days is just call the factory. 

As for layout, I can easily fish 4 in the bay but you are right on the deck layout situation if you wanted 4 to fish in something rougher. I wouldn't want to be perched on the edge of the boat on a rough day at the jetties. Then again if it's rough I'll find somewhere else to fish...


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## Fish44

*Epic 25' Boat*

The boat exist to find out when it will show up at dealers I would suggest trying to get someone from Epic to discuss, also try Pete Jorgensen Marine for a answer, ask for Pete or Eric. The 25' was at Houston boat show and I know that PJM is going to show the boat at the boat show they attend.


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## bmtsupra

Here's a few pictures of the 25' Epic from the Houston Boat show. It was nice, but I was expecting more from Epic on this boat. Another boat I fell in love with at the boat show was the Seaborn FX25. That is a fine boat. I has a good mix of inshore and offshore features built into it. The Seaborn costs more than the Epic, but I would say well worth the extra money. I think the Epic was around 49k and the Seaborn was around 66k


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## KingOfBacklash

Man that thing looks loooong. That's what she said...


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## Truckmaniac

The Epic 25SC looks awesome !!!

I really like the integrated step from the console floor up to the front deck.

There also appears to be a storage compartment in the console floor at the step-up.

For what I'd be using it for, I'd go with the Epic and save the $17K +.


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## TheSamarai

*epic 25*

can i ask what it is about the epic that turned u off cause that looks like a very nice big bay boat with more than enough power at a very good price point.


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## TheSamarai

your boat will be fine. not everyone needs a pathfinder. my 2003 baystealh( the name brings up horror stories in some circles) is still strong. I actually want it to have some problems so that I can upgrade but that thing is built like a tank.


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## DIHLON

TheSamarai said:


> your boat will be fine. not everyone needs a pathfinder. my 2003 baystealh( the name brings up horror stories in some circles) is still strong. I actually want it to have some problems so that I can upgrade but that thing is built like a tank.


I will tell you what turned me off to them: new to building bay boats. I looked pretty seriously at these before I bought my boat. I just wasn't confident enough in them to drop $40K+ on something this "new".


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## fishman2006

Salty_Dawg said:


> Hey ya gents, I hope you get some sort of notice that I am posting on this old thread. I am in the market for a 25 foot Epic. Ron Hoover in Galveston told me Epic makes a 25 footer, but they don't haave any yet and don't have any brochures. Odd to me that Epic doesn't list a 25 foot boat on their website.
> 
> I really like the price of the Epics. I need a boat that will fish 4 old farts just about anywhere in the Galveston Bay system, plus hit the Jetties, and on a super calm day make it to the first rigs. So, I am looking for a center console bay boat, that will get to 16" or shallower with hydraulic jack plate, be reliable, have decent resale, and not cost 80 grand. In terms of floor plans, it looks like almost every manufacturer is in love with super huge fore and aft casting platforms and foot lockers, so a lot of deck real estate is consumed with storage and elevated platforms. Epic does seem to have some of the most same-level deck space.
> 
> I just wish I could verify that a 25' Epic exists, and see some pics of them.


I have a 2460 Baystealth. The 25' Epic is the same hull and interior design as my Baystealth. As far as the performance of my boat goes.... I couldn't be happier. We do exactly as you described in our Baystealth. I've been in the marsh fishing for reds, the jetties, and 50 miles offshore on many occasions. This hull rides very good in all conditions. It is without a doubt the driest bay boat I've ever been on thanks to the huge bow flare.

You will be very happy I believe with the 25' Epic. But, keep in mind that you are getting a lot of boat for ~$50k.. So the fit and finish is not going to be as good as some higher end boats...that should be expected. However for the price, I believe that Epic makes the best boats for the money on the market right now.


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## Truckmaniac

DIHLON said:


> I will tell you what turned me off to them: new to building bay boats. I looked pretty seriously at these before I bought my boat. I just wasn't confident enough in them to drop $40K+ on something this "new".


Epic has been building high quality Wakeboard boats for a dozen years.

Since they are now manufacturing in the old VIP plant, they own the to the Bay Stealth molds (not a bad design by the way). They modified the hull mold from the Bay Stealth, making it a longer, better performing design. They then totally re-vamped the deck, making it one of the most user friendly designs in the industry. Add the resin-infused construction and you have a lighter, stronger hull.

To get there "foot-in-the-door" of the bay boat market, they are initially "buying" there way in, offering a quality product at a bargain price. They are selling them as fast as they can make them and are one of the fastest, if not the fastest growing offering in a 22 foot model. I'd guess that prices will increase steadily as they take over more market share.

Some folks have stated their concern about resale. I looked at several new & used Rangers, Pathfinders and Skeeters before buying my new Epic. I priced them with as close to the same equipment & accessories possible. The new models were running $15K to $32K more that an Epic. The used models (1 to 2 years old) were still $5K to $15K more than my Epic, meaning that the other boats had depreciated $10K to $17K within 2 years. I doubt that my Epic will depreciate $10K in 2 years and I know that it won't depreciate $17K. I've seen two 2008 Bay Stealths bring $25K to $26K.

You've heard the old adage: _If it's too good to be true, it probably is._ Well, the Epic 22SC is the exception to the rule.

_*Don't Be Scared!*_ The Epic is at the real deal and shouldn't be over-looked.


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## DIHLON

Truckmaniac said:


> Epic has been building high quality Wakeboard boats for a dozen years.
> 
> Since they are now manufacturing in the old VIP plant, they own the to the Bay Stealth molds (not a bad design by the way). They modified the hull mold from the Bay Stealth, making it a longer, better performing design. They then totally re-vamped the deck, making it one of the most user friendly designs in the industry. Add the resin-infused construction and you have a lighter, stronger hull.
> 
> To get there "foot-in-the-door" of the bay boat market, they are initially "buying" there way in, offering a quality product at a bargain price. They are selling them as fast as they can make them and are one of the fastest, if not the fastest growing offering in a 22 foot model. I'd guess that prices will increase steadily as they take over more market share.
> 
> Some folks have stated their concern about resale. I looked at several new & used Rangers, Pathfinders and Skeeters before buying my new Epic. I priced them with as close to the same equipment & accessories possible. The new models were running $15K to $32K more that an Epic. The used models (1 to 2 years old) were still $5K to $15K more than my Epic, meaning that the other boats had depreciated $10K to $17K within 2 years. I doubt that my Epic will depreciate $10K in 2 years and I know that it won't depreciate $17K. I've seen two 2008 Bay Stealths bring $25K to $26K.
> 
> You've heard the old adage: *If it's too good to be true, it probably is. Well, the Epic 22SC is the exception to the rule.*
> 
> _*Don't Be Scared!*_ The Epic is at the real deal and shouldn't be over-looked.


Only time will tell that and I don't think 2 years of production is long enough. Yes, I am aware they have been building boats for a long time, but not this type of boat. Wakeboard boats aren't typically getting hammered by rough water that the lakes and seas can bring. Have you ever seen anybody wakeboarding in 2-3' chop? Me either. I am glad you are happy with your decision, as am I. 5 years from now I may be saying "****, I should have bought the epic" but for now, i'm glad I went the route I did.:brew:


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## Dom9118

Truckmaniac said:


> I talked at length with Ashley at Epic Boats concerning the "thin Hull" issue claims by the guy on the bass fishing forum. Ashley personally examined the damaged hull last Friday and there is a lot more to the story than what the owner of the boat has let on.
> 
> At first, the guy claims that he didn't know that his boat was damaged until he loaded it on the trailer. Then he changes his story to "the damage was done when rolling off of some stumps". What actually happened was that he hit a floating log/tree while running at 30-35 mph. There were marks on the bottom of the boat, nearly the entire length of the hull, along with a couple of large punctures in the hull with wood driven up into the hull. The wood shavings that they removed would fill up a plastic sandwich bag. The water pick-ups for the livewells that are located on the transom had been ripped-off the back of the boat. There wasn't any "air pocket" or "void" area between the gelcoat and fiberglass, as the owner claimed.
> 
> Bottom Line: There wasn't a problem with the hull as the owner claimed. A fast moving boat and a floating log is a recipe for disaster.
> 
> Now you know the rest of the story.


Sure is Funny ashley says this ,because my boss is sueing them right now for air pockets in the hull ,SO here is a truth he bough the boat back to them to let them make it right , So when he bought it back for the pin holes in the floor and the floor chipping up, He seen they did some work to the outside and this is because the rod boxes were too long and pressing against the wall making the gel coat crack, Keep in mind this boat had 4.5 hrs on it at the time. So after they kept the boat for months and fail to fix everything to the center console to the lid boxs to the water pickups . It now has a hole in front where he was putting on the trailer from he rubber roller. Lets just say this boat is a epic p.o.s .

They had 2 time to make this boat right but everything it just came back worst...


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## KingOfBacklash

Dom9118 said:


> Sure is Funny ashley says this ,because my boss is sueing them right now for air pockets in the hull ,SO here is a truth he bough the boat back to them to let them make it right , So when he bought it back for the pin holes in the floor and the floor chipping up, He seen they did some work to the outside and this is because the rod boxes were too long and pressing against the wall making the gel coat crack, Keep in mind this boat had 4.5 hrs on it at the time. So after they kept the boat for months and fail to fix everything to the center console to the lid boxs to the water pickups . It now has a hole in front where he was putting on the trailer from he rubber roller. Lets just say this boat is a epic p.o.s .
> 
> They had 2 time to make this boat right but everything it just came back worst...


 Say what?

People might take you more seriously if you used proper grammar/punctuation and if this wasn't your first post. Seems like there might be some agenda.

You can sue anyone for anything but that doesn't prove either side was right or wrong. I don't doubt there's some legitimacy to the claim but search around and you'll see issues with every brand. They've sold plenty of these boats and they aren't exactly sinking. Maybe he just got a bad one...

I've had mine over a year and aside from where I ran it into a bulkhead, the fiberglass is fine. The only real issue I've had a problem with the rear baitwell lid.

On a side note, I thought I heard the Ashley wasn't there anymore.


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## jmcCoastal

Just for the record on this model, I originally decided on the EPIC to get bigger bang for the buck. More real estate for same price as some of the 23'. I have been disappointed that the manufacturer has not updated their website or released any brochures on the 25. I thought by the 2nd/3rd year of production on this model they would have something out. Leaves a bit of concern on my end.
I've had my EPIC 25 for a few months now and just delivered it back to the dealer for my 20 hour service. Here are the issues I have:
1. Small chip in flooring, half size of a dime. Seemed to happen after I had a bait bucket on board. Don't recall dropping or making a big hit.
2. Back folding seats are a tight fit when pulling pass the locking mechanism. The seat molding hits metal bracket which is causing molding to pull away from seat.
3. Magnetic latch on front livewell has rusted out.
My only other issues are Suzuki gauge related. Overall, I'm very pleased with the performance. I run in west Galveston bay, so low draft is great. Take it our San Luis Pass and ride is decent in 2-3' with dry ride.
Anyway, for what it's worth if anyone is considering EPIC as an option.


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## Wes1227

I just purchased one from Jorgenson Marine in Beaumont tx...What a great group of guys...I purchased the 25SC with the Evinrude G2 300..I traded my 06 Ranger Z21 Limited for it and don't regret one minute...this boat is great rides good and dry I would recommend it..


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## Wes1227

People commenting on the wiring issues. Jorgenson Marine orders them without wiring and installs it on location and it looks excellent..


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## Fish44

*PJM*



Wes1227 said:


> I just purchased one from Jorgenson Marine in Beaumont tx...What a great group of guys...I purchased the 25SC with the Evinrude G2 300..I traded my 06 Ranger Z21 Limited for it and don't regret one minute...this boat is great rides good and dry I would recommend it..


I purchased by 22sc from PJM and worth the ride from Houston to Beaumont, I saved a couple thousands the customer service has been great.


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## Tomspen99

I'm a new Epic 22SC owner. My boat is rigged with a 250 ProSX running a 23P Tempest. Just finished the break in period and the testing at WOT the boat was rigged with 112 Minn Kota trolling motor, dual starting batteries, 2 guys (450 lbs.), 1/2 tank of fuel. Boat was turning 5300 - 5400 RPM's, with jackplate at about 85-90% up running at 58.4 MPH.

Is anyone else running a 250 ProSX and if so what prop are you running to get the boat to the proper RMP operating range of 5800-6000? Also, does anyone have Ashley's phone number with Epic. I've seen several post where she has been quoted that other running 250 ProSx's are running 70. I'd like to talk with her and find out who rigged out those boats.

Any help is greatly appreciated.


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