# Would you take the shot?



## Geedubya (Jul 11, 2011)

I'm a dyed in the wool rifle hunter. However, I dig the rush, and the challenge of bowhunting. I'll never stop gun hunting, but this year for the first time I'm on a bow only lease, in Rio Frio, just north of Garner State park. It has the dry Frio running through the property and is about 1/2 mile from the Frio river. It also happens to be a low fenced operating cattle ranch that backs up to a 4,500 acre low/no fenced ranch. It is covered up up with turkey, white-tail, hogs, axis. I've seen both fox and coyote. Last year, I was not able to hunt this lease. This year I can. I watched this buck a couple times last year during bow season, as I was setting in a tri-pod, hunting axis and hogs. This guy came out at 23 paces. Here are a couple of pix. He was seen a couple more times but was not shot to our knowledge. If you had the opportunity to do so, would you take the shot.
Best
GWB


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Looks young especially in the first picture..


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## CoastalOutfitters (Aug 20, 2004)

he is still kinda young, but flip side is that you may never see him again


go for it


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## TXPalerider (May 21, 2004)

If you are asking about the shot opportunity/angle....no on #1 and yes on #2.


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## devil1824 (Sep 4, 2010)

Dang right! Its a trophy in my book.


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## Geedubya (Jul 11, 2011)

I guess I should be more specific, I was not asking about the shot angle, rather whether if it was bow season, you could take two bucks, would you consider taking this buck. This is not south Texas and it is not a game managed ranch that has been feeding protien for years. Just a free ranging hill country buck.

GWB


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## cpthook (Jan 16, 2008)

Picture 1 no, picture 2 yes. With that being said personally I think this deer is too young to harvest. In 2 or 3 years he will be a stud 8 or 10 pointer. And even though this is not S Texas havesting mature deer should be a goal to inprove the overall heard quality.


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## THE JAMMER (Aug 1, 2005)

All this game management stuff is still pretty foreign to me. We are not ranchers- we are hunters. All of this "let him go so he'll get bigger" so that *someone else* can shoot it, for some reason, just doesn't jive with my role as a HUNTER. If we were raising cattle, yes, but we are hunting.

My feelings are that if is a trophy to me, and I want to shoot it- choot em!! Now I know this will probably keep me off some leases, but how many of those guys "manage their deer herd" and go home every year with nuttin.

I'm certainly not advocating blasting everything that moves. I just think we should have our own individual standards, and stay with them. But all this food plot, genetic engineering of antlers that are so heavy that the buck can't even keep his head up, etc. is all great for a rancher. Not so, in my opinion, for a hunter.

I know this will stir the pot, so let er rip!

Regarding the two shots, anyone who would take the shot in pic #1, should be banned from the sport. Unfortunately, the lesser experienced hunters out there who watch all of "the shows" are seeing, more and more, the PROS taking shots like this in the never ending quest of "killing something everytime, regardless of the ethics" is encouraging those lesser experienced hunters to take these totally marginal shots. What we, the watchers, don't realize is that the shows have a very valuable tool, which we don't have-- EDITING. On TV all we see is the shot, and then magically 2 minutes later- the dead animal. How much more often these days do we see on the shows- "let's just back out. We're almost out of light. We'll get him tomorrow." I have seen that more in the last year than in the last 20 years combined. The reason, many times, was because a marginal shot was taken. The more they do it on TV, the more the regular hunter will attempt it. I have seen more marginal shots taken in the last year, than in all other years combined. I watched a Mule Deer hunt in Nevada last night on, of all places, Eastman hunting. The guy took a downhill shot at a buck that was darn near 90 degrees facing away from him-- Texas heart shot??? He made a magical hit and recovered the deer. So how many "newbies" this fall might take that shot. After all, Eastman hunting (gurus of DIY/ public land/ ethical hunting) can do it and get away with it, why can't I???

By the way I would take a shot at pic #2 in a heartbeat, unless I already had 2 or 3 of that size on my wall. Then I would hold out for a larger buck. I would, however, ideally wait until he moved that front left leg forward a bit.

IMHO,

THE JAMMER


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## Delta Elite (May 28, 2011)

Aging a deer on the hoof is challenging even for the most experienced hunters. Supported by this article I read: http://www.noble.org/ag/Wildlife/AgingDeeronHoof/index.html

That deer could be much older than 2.5. Nevertheless, I do not feel that buck is completely mature and there is still some competitive antler growth there. That is to say, the buck's bone structure is still be developing. Once he reaches maturity, those antlers should develop a lot more.

But I am with Jammer on this one. I would harvest this animal.


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## Rack Ranch (May 25, 2004)

I would shoot him.. good buck for that area... should be able to get yourself a nice axis as well... can yall hunt year round??


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## TXPalerider (May 21, 2004)

Geedubya said:


> I guess I should be more specific, I was not asking about the shot angle, rather whether if it was bow season, you could take two bucks, would you consider taking this buck. This is not south Texas and it is not a game managed ranch that has been feeding protien for years. Just a free ranging hill country buck.
> 
> GWB


Dang nice buck for that ranch. Definitely might be a shooter this year.

I saw a buck that looked just like that one in the back across the creek a few years ago, only then he was smaller.

In 2008-09 there was nothing close to that on that ranch. Obviously, a little restraint is making a difference. Shoot your does and culls and let the better deer get some age on them and y'all should have some really nice deer in the next few years.

Good luck!!

BTW...I'm one of the main reasons that ranch is now "bow only."


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## texwake (Aug 17, 2010)

Go to the website www.whitetailsdomain.com and play the game "Shoot or Wait". It gives you a 5 second video of about 5 seperate deer and you have to press shoot or wait in that 5 second time period and it can educate you in why it was a good time to shoot the deer or why you should have waited. 
If that deer was on my property I would have waited becasuse I want him to breed and make more glorious bucks and becasue the other land owners around my property dont really hunt so im not worried about him getting shot (We did have a buck get poached two months ago though, found him dead in our tank, bullet hole in gut).


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## texwake (Aug 17, 2010)

Not to Hijack your thread but I thought this would be funny to post after pulling it off my game camera this last weekend...so shoot or wait? hahaha


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## CoastalOutfitters (Aug 20, 2004)

texwake said:


> Not to Hijack your thread but I thought this would be funny to post after pulling it off my game camera this last weekend...so shoot or wait? hahaha


correct angle and you could get a 2 fer or 3 fer with a fmj


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## TildenHunter (Jan 14, 2011)

I think that buck was at least 3.5 in the pics so if he is still around then he would be at least 4.5 this season and if he is still an 8 pt then I would take him. If a 4.5 yr old only has 8 pts then we generally try and take him.


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## brazman (Aug 22, 2006)

I would have shot him in a heartbeat, if I thought him legal. Course, my "ranch" is 20 acres of wild pines in East TX and the only two bucks I saw last season were a spike and a 5pt mess of a runt.


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## Tail Chaser (May 24, 2004)

brazman said:


> I would have shot him in a heartbeat, if I thought him legal. Course, my "ranch" is 20 acres of wild pines in East TX and the only two bucks I saw last season were a spike and a 5pt mess of a runt.


Sounds like the place we hunt as well. Small area surrounded by thousands of acres of pines. All we've had is the same little buck for the last two seasons come around and tons of does. He was a spike year one, but branched last year and was a tiny four point. If he's still around I don't anticpate him being much better this year at age three with all this drought we've had.


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## Miles2Fish (Dec 2, 2008)

Choot'em....Choot'em!


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## THE JAMMER (Aug 1, 2005)

I commented on this earlier in the thread, but in light of what I saw on TV last night, I have to comment again. Last night I saw the winner of an elk hunt with Jackie Bushman ( I thinkg) shoot a bull elk at about 10 yards literally almost head on. The bull ran away with an arrow (about 50% penetration) sticking out in front of it. They recovered the bull, because it luckily probably hit either the carotid or jugular.

Then this morning I saw a guy take 40 yard head on shot at an antelope. Again luckily recovered.

I am more and more seeing these "bad shots" being taken on TV. The elk ran over 200 yards. When normal jokers like you and I see the PROS taking these kinds of shots, then guess who else starts to take them. We will never know how many of those bad shots taken by the pros result in lost animals, because they have that EDIT button, which we don't have.

My gosh if an elk is at 10 yards head on, don't you think you could wait and probably make the shot as he turns to one side or the other??? Or as the antelope stops watering and starts to stand up, maybe blow your antelope call or do the classic "Braaaap" to stop him, and then take an ethical shot??

Where are all of our hunting skills going?? Are we going to totally rely on technology to continually bail us out??

Sorry for getting on the stump, but every time I see one of these things on TV, the first thing I do is call my kid in, have him watch, and give his comments. So far, based upon his answers, I feel like I am raising a responsible, ethical "HUNTER."

IMHO


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## Geedubya (Jul 11, 2011)

Jammer,as I said before, I probably should have been a little more definitive in my question. I was not asking about the shot angle in either photo, but rather whether different folks would have let this deer walk due to age consideration. I'm lucky in that I have no pressure whatsoever to kill. I will pay for two spots on leases in the Texas hill country. My son and I will be able to take 9 deer and be within the lease rules and TPWD regs for the counties we will be hunting in. I will most likely hunt around 30 to 40 days of the 90 or so days in bow and rifle season. That will give me at least 50 to 60 opportunities to take game. I'll take does early and watch for the buck I want. I usually end up taking bucks between Christmas and New Year. 
I will take a head on shot with a rifle. I will not take a head on shot with a bow. Just me. For a number of years I've limited my bow hunting simply due to the fact that I've seen too many deer lost by bow hunters. I'm there to kill and make meat. I shoot deer at 25 paces or under.I've shot the same Matthews FX for years, I know my distances and have practiced to the point where I'm confident. If the shot is not optimum, I don't take it. Now hogs are a different proposition. I will shoot a hog out to 35 paces. I will also shoot them in low light, but once again, I am looking for a kill shot. The landowner where I will be bowhunting wants every hog seen, shot. I always have a sidearm that can be employed should I choose.

GWB


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## Spec-Rig.006 (Nov 2, 2007)

Young ... ?!?!?!? Young and sway-backed huh guys? Picture 1 says it all, he ain't getting any younger or better. Whack him. If the deer in front is young, than the deer in the background hasn't been born yet.


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## catchysumfishy (Jul 19, 2008)

I don't know how I would Harvest him , but I would damned sure Kill him if I didn't already have a better one!!


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## 9121SS (Jun 28, 2009)

If he was where I hunt he would be going down!


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## saltwatersensations (Aug 30, 2004)

Nice deer but It would depend on what the other bucks are looking like there. I would guess that deer at 4.5(my uneducated guess). A nice looking 8, and if I had not been seeing much else he would go down for sure. Would be a great bow kill none the less.


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## Richard P (Jun 20, 2010)

Are those pics of the same buck? What time of the year were the pics taken?


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## Geedubya (Jul 11, 2011)

Richard P said:


> Are those pics of the same buck? What time of the year were the pics taken?


Yes that is the same buck The pix were taken in the same series of photos.
The pictures were taken during the second week of bow season last year IIRC. I saw hime twice over a three day period. I was not on the lease at this time but the owner had given me permission to take hogs or an axis doe. A camera is one of the things I always have in my pack. Sometimes it's almost as much fun as making meat. Definitely a lot less work.
GWB


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## 10ERBETTER (Feb 24, 2008)

Kill him.


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## THE JAMMER (Aug 1, 2005)

Geedubya said:


> Jammer,as I said before, I probably should have been a little more definitive in my question. I was not asking about the shot angle in either photo, but rather whether different folks would have let this deer walk due to age consideration. I'm lucky in that I have no pressure whatsoever to kill. I will pay for two spots on leases in the Texas hill country. My son and I will be able to take 9 deer and be within the lease rules and TPWD regs for the counties we will be hunting in. I will most likely hunt around 30 to 40 days of the 90 or so days in bow and rifle season. That will give me at least 50 to 60 opportunities to take game. I'll take does early and watch for the buck I want. I usually end up taking bucks between Christmas and New Year.
> I will take a head on shot with a rifle. I will not take a head on shot with a bow. Just me. For a number of years I've limited my bow hunting simply due to the fact that I've seen too many deer lost by bow hunters. I'm there to kill and make meat. I shoot deer at 25 paces or under.I've shot the same Matthews FX for years, I know my distances and have practiced to the point where I'm confident. If the shot is not optimum, I don't take it. Now hogs are a different proposition. I will shoot a hog out to 35 paces. I will also shoot them in low light, but once again, I am looking for a kill shot. The landowner where I will be bowhunting wants every hog seen, shot. I always have a sidearm that can be employed should I choose.
> 
> GWB


Gdub.

I knew and understood the original purpose of the post, and it was a great question, and it has been a great post. And I completely agree with your methods posted above. I just wanted to get on the stump once more, because I have seen so many of these situations on TV lately, that I'm afraid that it is permeating the lesser experienced hunters a lot.

You and Charlie, and bottomsup, and lots of others who have contributed to this thread and others, obviously know how to hunt, shoot, and the ethics of taking animals cleanly. I'm just wanting those without as much experience to know that when they watch those TV shows, that those shots are not ok to take.

One other thing along this same line is how it's really good for ratings on those shows to show huge emotion right after the shot. Unfortunately, one of my favorites, Fred Eichler, is the worst offender. " YEAH BABY. I SURE GOT HIM. DID YOU SEE THAT. WHAT A SHOT. WHAT A BUCK, ETC." Yelled at the top of their lungs.

Unless you actually see the animal fall, and you are sure he is dead- SHUT YOUR MOUTH. If you want to give that animal an extra shot of adrenaline, which will prolong your tracking for who knows how long, then shout away. Then when you see them trailing their animals, not knowing yet whether they are dead or alive, they are just talking talking- "HEY HERE'S SOME BLOOD OVER HERE YADDA YADDA YADDA."

Again if that deer is 50 yards away laid up in a bush recovering, that talking / yelling will do nothing but re energize him. By that time the blood might have coagulated, and not be flowing again- and when he gets up and walks away --No trail--LOST DEER.

It used to be only a few tv guys showing all the emotion. Now every one of them is yee hawing, giving their Tiger hand pump, etc.

Sorry for the rant. It's late, and I had nothing else to do.


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## Geedubya (Jul 11, 2011)

THE JAMMER said:


> Gdub.
> 
> Sorry for the rant. It's late, and I had nothing else to do.


Rant on Bro'.

I used to watch the hunting shows on TV. I don't any more. Probably quit a couple years ago. I've been hunting since I was six. My grandfather was a boy scout leader. Showed me how to take a willow or some other long straight limb and cut it at the fork. I had a little black fice. That dog and I would run rabbits. I'd take that forked stick and twist a rabbit's fur up in it and pull 'em out. I've been hunting ever since. 
I won't get into hunting ethics. I believe in the Dominion Covenant given in Genesis (Man is to have dominion of the birds of the air and the beasts of the field). Let's just say when I'm hunting, my purpose it to kill, skin and dismember game, roast its flesh and provide sustenance for my self and family. I share what I kill with lots of folk. They seem to appreciate it.
As far as on screen orgasm's. I really have a hard time with that also. The day that sucessufully taking a game animal becomes boring is the day I'll hang it up. However, the antics one sees, well lets just say I find it distasteful, maybe even contrived. Contrived emotion is worse than distasteful. Hunting and shooting are my obsession. I am so glad it is not how I make my living (get paid for it).

Best

GWB


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## Bob Keyes (Mar 16, 2011)

Both bucks would get my arrow, #2 nice buck classic broadside ,slam dunk. #2 a little more interesting, from a tree stand he walks on the ground i will take a head-on shot, with a cut on contact broadhead like my G5 or a snuffer, inside 20 yards. I took the same shot on an elk at 17 yds, he started spraying blood like a firehose and dropped in 2 steps, easiest recovery I had.

Bob


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## raiderfish (May 26, 2005)

with a bow, thats a trophy to me.


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