# Outfitter Scam



## ClayShooter (Aug 29, 2009)

Well I bought this hunt at our local SEA banquet and gave the outfitter plenty of time to try and resolve our nightmare hunt. Here is a detailed letter of our disaster. Yes I should of check his ratings and background before I bid on it. I didn't ask for a refund from our chapter as I know my money went into conservation. Live and learn

Bob McConnell
Horseshoe Hill Outfitters
Slippery Rock, PA 16057


I have tried to contact you twice to discuss the horrible hunting experience me and my wife had at your Ontario camp from late 9-7-15 to early 9-13-15. I am writing you this letter to inform you of our total dissatisfaction with our hunting experience with Horseshoe Hill Outfitters.

As you may recall we arrived at your camp at noon on 9-7-15 and I tried calling you and you did not answer you responded via text. You stated that we were too early and for us to go get a meal and our bear stamps. You claimed that your staff was out baiting and doing the last minute prep work. As I was in Longlac, I was approached by some locals and was asked if I was hunting in the area. After a few minutes of talking my wife responded and said yes we are hunting with Horseshoe Hill Outfitters and the local literally laughed out loud and said good luck with that. Itâ€™s more like youâ€™re going to Horseshoe Hell boy were they correct. What a way to start a hunt.

First understand that the hunt was bought in 2014 and rescheduled in 2015. You sent me a contract and the dates that were originally on the contract were wrong and you contacted me and gave me some additional dates.

I bought the hunt it was an all-inclusive bear/fishing package. I called you and clarified if that was the case you said yes that the bear hunt was guided and the fishing was semi-guided and that everything would be provided other than the list that was posted on your website. You claimed that my wife was a non-hunter and the cost would be 1500 for her to join but the contracted stated that non-hunters were 1000 and fishing was 1500. So that contradicted what you said and what the actual contract said.

I will start with your deluxe cabins that were to include queen beds with fresh linens, Tv, towels, and hot and cold water (presumably with our own shower and of course potable water). We were expecting a wonderful well-kept and sanitized cabin. Yet upon our arrival it was quite painful as I apologized to my wife for dragging her into a hell hole. Cabin 5 is the cabin we were staying in and it was in major need of repairs and updates. I will start with the pink couch on the porch that had duct tape over the cushions to keep them intact. I opened the front door and was hit with a smell that is indescribable it was mold/sewer all in one. Once I got past the smell I continued in to make a visual inspection of a kitchen that was still dirty from last year it seemed. The sink had mold growing on it and the actual counter top still had dirty dishes. Walked into the bathroom which the toilet was leaking water and had some fungus that was growing all around the toilet and bottom of the sink come to find out there was a problem with the sewer. It seemed every few hours or so our toilet would erupt with sewer gases making it unbearable to deal with the smell. The master bedroom had a bed that was from the 1950â€™s with a mattress that was shaped in a banana. The living room had a couch that had enough dirt on it to plant a garden. The ceiling had a 2x2 hole above the fridge. We werenâ€™t the only ones staying in the cabin we had a rat and a chipmunk that had claimed residence as well. The outhouse shower stall was a joke as we had multiple people waiting in line to wash up in a timely manner. We were forced to run into town to purchase shower shoes as everyone was worried about getting a foot fungus. Is this what you call DELUXE? I was ashamed that my wife had to deal with these conditions. It was even worse I had to pay 1,000 dollars for this. If I would have known of this nightmare we would have stayed at the four winds motel like we did on Saturday and would have saved money which included breakfast. 


Letâ€™s talk about meals!! The only real meal that I would say we had were pork chops and that was on the first day upon arrival. The rest of it was as simple as you can get cold sandwiches, pastas and soups. The last thing a hunter or a non-hunter wants to do is eat a cold sandwich after freezing out in the bush. We didnâ€™t even have drinks till the second day of our hunt. Thatâ€™s when the cook went into town and got groceries. In matter of a fact I looked in the pantry or room where the food is stored and it was disgusting. There was rat and chipmunk feces near the out dated food. The dishes were washed with lake water that wasnâ€™t even treated which caused people to get diarrhea. It was so bad that me and some others went into town and bought our own food/drinks and snacks to make our week at Horseshoe Hell. The main lodge had a family of chipmunks that would watch you eat waiting on someone to drop a piece of food so they could eat. The living room was a wreck to say the least and Iâ€™ll leave it at that.

On to the hunting that was supposed to be guided. Let me say this was my first bear hunt and I had more experience in hunting bears than the guides. One guide didnâ€™t show up till half way through the hunt at midnight. So we had 3 guides Morgan, Bunny, Wade that werenâ€™t even familiar to the hunting sites. They had two pickups to take and pick up all the hunters how was this supposed to work. If I would have been informed of this from the beginning I wouldnâ€™t have rented a car. The duration of the hunt I drove our rent car to and from our bait sites and had to haul our own bait in the trunk. Even took other hunters to and from their bait site as well as there was not enough guides to get to everyone. Is this what you consider all inclusive? The cost of fuel and having to detail the rent car was about 100 dollars out of my pocket. To help run your operation!!

Stands/Bait sites. We had discussed that I was hunting with a rifle and that my wife would be joining me on my hunt and you said that it wouldnâ€™t be a problem. On the first three days we hunted on bait site #3 on the east road. We were set up in a one man Ameristep pop up blind that cost 49.99 at your local sporting goods store. It was originally positioned 10 yards from the bait according to my vortex rangefinder and later moved it to 30 yards by me and my wife. You and your website stated that the average rifle shot is 50 yards wrong again. We put in 10 hour days in the bush crammed in the pop up like sardines after the 3rd day of no bear activity we were moved to the west road. That was further driving in the rent car but hey after all our goal was a big mature bear right. The first day of sitting in a water tank that had been converted into a blind it was a total bust because a local had beat us to the punch. As I was walking to bait my own stand like the rest of the hunters had to. I noticed a freshly smoked cigarette which was Canadian brand at the bottom of the bucket where I was putting my bait in, whatâ€™s even worse I found a federal 308 shell that was still warm to the touch. What was the point of even sitting so we headed back into camp on our way back we seen where the locals were camping a few hundred yards from our bait. We also picked up a lady hunter because she could see the locals from her stand so it wasnâ€™t just my hunt that was busted. So much for the 70 bait sites that you claimed you had we were four days into the hunt and hadnâ€™t even seen a sign of a bear. Arriving to camp we talk to JC and in private, I handed him the cigarette and shell trying not to discourage the other hunters. The next morning we didnâ€™t have a stand to sit in so we had to stay in which was very upsetting because we were running out of time. The lady hunter had to do the same she didnâ€™t have a stand to hunt either we were in the same boat. So after wasting a morning a friend of Jc pulls into camp and offers us one of his bait sites that had no blind. So there we go with the fellow female hunter down blueberry road trying to find this place. This was it we only had a day and a half to seal the deal. Well guess what we sat on the side of the road like dummies trying to draw a bear to our bait. This was the most unprofessional hunt I have ever been on. The icing on the cake I was offered to kill the camp bear now please tell me how sportsman or ethical is that. My wife said great we can make the news like the hunter that killed Cecil the lion. So the conclusion of our hunt is we never seen a bear or a sign of a bear. We were moved around to bait sites that werenâ€™t even proven or hit. I understand that hunting is hunting but we were truly misled where was the 90% success ratio.

I run two whitetail/exotic ranches and I would never ever think of running my operation anything like I just witnessed first handed. I sell from your average 120 class whitetail to your 200 plus inch B&C deer or any African game and there are no hidden fees or surprises like we had to deal with. Our lodging is 4 stars and is a fraction of your cost with fine gourmet meals.

The fishing. Well you stated once again fishing gear is optional as Horseshoe Hill had tackle and poles available at camp. Well I only found 2 poles at camp that were nowhere near in working condition. The bait was so old that it was decomposing in the live well. So no fishing for us which was included in my package. In matter of fact another hunter claimed you told him he could rent poles and tackle for 50 bucks a day again he didnâ€™t get to fish either due to the fact there was no tackle available.

Taxidermist that was supposed to be available at camp? We never met him or her. Again this was an all-inclusive hunt but once we had our first meeting with JC he claims his 100 dollars skinning fee is not included. I was never aware of this additional fee period.

In conclusion, these problems werenâ€™t just minor all of them were major problems to sewer issues, unsanitary cabins, and kitchen & health code issues. By the way the next time try and schedule the septic sewer people to show up when there isnâ€™t anyone at camp. Literally having to smell **** as its sucked out the lines is not what I call fun. The hunting was horrible; I was busted by locals, campers, seismologist, atvâ€™s. I left all the evidence with JC and you can call him and ask him he has the cigarette and the 308 shell. Never before have I experienced this level of dissatisfaction. I felt like we were lied to and ripped off period. 

Your Staff is not a fault period. I think JC, Bunny, Morgan, Wade and Tyler did a great job with what they had to work with and thatâ€™s nothing. They tried to keep everyone in a positive mood and that was impossible with the conditions we had to deal with from the cabins to the hunting. Your staff is a great group of guys that could make it work if they had the resources to work with. They admitted to us that we werenâ€™t the only group that was dissatisfied and lied to as well. I hold you Bob/Horseshoe Hill Outfitters responsible for this nightmare.

My question to you is what is your answer to this? How do you plan to make this right for not just me and my wife but to the other fellow hunters that had to endure the same horrible conditions?

I have contacted my local Sci chapter and gave them a detail explanation of the nightmare hunt we had with Horseshoe Hill Outfitters.

Respectfully,
Adrian Valdez
361-876-3987



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## clouser (Jun 14, 2006)

Man, what a nightmare! I have buddies that have gone on "guided" hunts that were nowhere near what was advertised, but their experience didn't come close to what you had to go through.

Thanks for bringing this to light.


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## boatlift (Jun 23, 2009)

That sounds horrible, sorry you had such a bad hunt.


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## Cynoscion (Jun 4, 2009)

Wow Adrian, what a mess!!! I'm sorry you had to deal with all of that but I'm especially sorry that your wife had to as well. If it were me, my wife would probably be seeking a divorce after putting her through that.

Thanks for donating to a very worthy cause though. I just wish they would have vetted the outfitters donating the hunts a little better and it would have saved you a bunch of grief.

This experience probably gave you a new found respect for just how bad some outfitters are and made you even more appreciative of how well we run our businesses.


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## Cajun Raider (Jun 15, 2008)

Thanks for getting the word out on rip off artists like these.


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## ClayShooter (Aug 29, 2009)

Robert that was my point. I asked how deep do they check on these outfitters. Reviews & past hunts. When the hunt came up it showed a really nice cabin on a remote lake. I googled them had good reviews nice pictures. My wife said ok let's bid. The rest was history. Lol. On the bright side it was an eye opener as how well we run our operations and quality animals we offer. 


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## ClayShooter (Aug 29, 2009)

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## ClayShooter (Aug 29, 2009)

No matter how bad the nightmare was momma said lets have fun and make it enjoyable. We maid the best of it for sure. The little Jon boat was at camp the day we couldn't hunt I told myself hell lets go for a ride. We weren't staying at hell camp me & momma took off exploring. 


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## ClayShooter (Aug 29, 2009)

Here we are on the side of a mountain laughing our asses off. Thinking what in the world is this non sense. It got to the point we just had to laugh about it.

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## sparrish8 (Jul 13, 2013)

Good job call out this loser so know one else gets shafted. If you put enough info on the web it will show up when people search them.


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## Buckerup (Feb 19, 2009)

Sorry you got ripped off. Hopefully your actions will keep the same from happening to others. Thanks.


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## Hooked (Oct 15, 2004)

Sounds like you have a wonderful wife to stick it out and make the most of a bad situation.


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## ClayShooter (Aug 29, 2009)

Thanks Hooked. She is wonderful and a great mother. I'm truly blessed. She was just happy to see the northern lights. 


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## [email protected] (May 24, 2004)

Clayshooter - It is truly sad that some outfitters are so unscrupulous. Our first Canada fly-in fishing trip back in the mid-70s was equally disastrous except that when the airplane taxied away and took off across the lake we were 100% alone in the wilderness, about 100 miles from God knows where. One by one we learned the boats, motors, gas lights in the cabin and cook stove were not what you'd call completely junk but there was definitely a trick to getting them to work.

Anyway - we learned from our mistakes (booking an outfitter without requesting and corresponding with recent clients who had booked the same services). AND -- the same as you and lovely bride, we sucked it up and made the best of it - determined to have a good trip despite the outfitters lies and laziness. Lucky for us the walleye and northern pike fishing was pure dynamite! (The only thing that matched the outfitters claims.)

One thing you might look into if you want to pursue the matter in an official manner, hunting outfitters that take non-residents hunting in Canada are required to purchase permits and licenses from the provincial gov't. Some outfitters also join outfitters associations for the purpose of advising the public that they pass the association's quality standards. You might try reporting the guy that ripped you off to any and all of the above.

Don't give up! Canada is a wonderful place to hunt and fish and there are lots of good outfitters. Hopefully you will find one for your next trip.


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## wal1809 (May 27, 2005)

I would file a complaint with the fund raiser organization as well. They certainly don't want trash outfitters selling to the folks paying the donations.


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## S-3 ranch (May 26, 2004)

wal1809 said:


> I would file a complaint with the fund raiser organization as well. They certainly don't want trash outfitters selling to the folks paying the donations.


Yeah I bought a pronghorn antelope hunt at a DU banquet, and didn't see a buck for 2 of them the 3 days, on third day, guide shows up and says we are going to a different ranch , and tells me if the game warden shows up to let him do the talking! I ask why and he tells me the permit issued is his ! I just asked to leave early, got home and contacted DU they tell me that the hunt was donated and can't do anything


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## ClayShooter (Aug 29, 2009)

Well since Bob never made any effort to make things right. Me & some of the other hunters reported him to SCI and many other Orgs and to our Suprise half had already banned him. Corpus BrushCountry & Sea banned him as well. Just found out the Canadian health ministry has shut down his Ontario & Quebec camps. The sad part is the people who were booked are in for a shocker cause he had already started booking 2016. 


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