# replumbing a house?



## catndahats

I'm just throwing this out there for feedback / suggestions.

Have got a 60 year old house on pier and beam, and the galvanized plumbing is on its' last legs. I'm considering redoing the entire house with CPVC plumbing. Has anyone ever taken this project on as a DIY'er? I have the summer off so time is not a factor.

Had a couple plumbers out to give bids and they range from $5500 - $8500 which includes running plumbing for a new bathroom. Without adding the bath (just replacing what's there) they are coming in around $3500. PVC is cheap and easy to work with.

I'd be replacing all the galvanized pipe. Am pretty good at DIY, have done some pvc repairs, but have never taken on a project this size. 

Before I get too committed, any suggestions, ideas, wisdom from someone that has done this before?


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## RB II

How much clearance is there under the house? If minimal, you/they will have to tunnel to where you want the lines to run. I would think that $3500 is high, but don't know how many places you would run the water. Also are you/they going to insulate the lines? I would highly recommend it. Some more info is needed to evaluate the bid. It is a relatively easy DIY, if you aren't afraid of confined spaces under the house. Whether you DIY or contract it, make sure that you/they pressure test all of the lines before insulating. One tip, always put (not glue) an elbow fitting on the pipe before dragging it under the house, it will help keep dirt out of the pipe. Good luck.


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## catndahats

Hydrasports, the house will have about 3ft. clearance in the crawl space....so tunneling should not be an issue. I thought the $3500 was high considering it's not a tunneling job, but nonetheless it is a lot of work (about 3 or 4 days according the plumbers) It's not my favorite place to work under there.

Currently the house has one bath, one kitchen sink, and two water heaters. The plumbers did not mention (or include) insulating. That was one of my questions too. What kind of insulation would you use?
Thanks for the elbow tip.

It sounds like a fairly straightforward project. If I hire it done, of course a pro would be quicker than me doing/learning as I go....but think I could save a ton of $$$.


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## RB II

Are you just talking about the water lines are will the drain pipes be replaced as well. If it includes the drain pipes, then the easy DIY goes out the window. It is fairly straightforward work, I doubt seriously that it would take a crew of plumbers 3 or 4 days to plumb for 4 fixtures unless the runs are extremely long. I would say go for it, the worst that can happen is you have to pay them $3500 minus the demo that you would do. I would recommend the foam pipe insulation, make sure to tape the joints and to insulate the fittings. Also be sure to use plenty of hangers, so that pipe doesn't sag underneath the house or it doesn't water hammer when valves are shut. Go to a plumbing supply house and get all of the materials that will work together. Also, make sure to use pipe cleaner/solvent on each joint, then the glue. Did I mention, TEST before insulating. Air pressure is the best as if there is a problem, not mess to clean up or lines to drain. Pressure up with the same pressure as is on your main line, leave the test on for 24 hours. There should be only a couple of pounds of pressure drop in that period at most. If there are leaks, repressure and listen/soapy water test the joints to find. If all else fails, put water on it, you WILL find the leak. Take your time and make sure all joints are properly glued and you shouldn't have any leaks. Again, good luck.


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## catndahats

Hydrasports wrote: "If it includes the drain pipes, then the easy DIY goes out the window."

Could you explain why? Am I missing something obvious? In the past (another house) I have replaced the pvc sewer drain, and except for all the digging down six feet to the sewer main it was not difficult.

I agree with your assessment about the worst thing that could happen (ie: having to pay someone in the end)...I haven't asked the plumbers if they would consider coming out and checking my work for a fee of course....but presume they would.


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## mustangeric

i own a plumbing company and i have 2 things to add. first 3500 is not outrageous for a job like that( though i have not seen the house) but you have to cosider gas, insurance, wages, ect.... which can add up quick. Second it is not out of the question for you to diy just take your time and double check everything. Its not going to be a fun job for you but you can do it. You will save your self at least 2k. Good luck and let me know if you have any question or need some help.


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## texasjellyfish

1 bath 1 kitchen really does not need 2 water heaters but 
to repipe it , cold and hot water supply below the house and insulating per code could be done in a half of a one day


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## RB II

The drain piping must be installed on grade which requires a lot of additional work and expertise. Didn't say it was impossible just not an easy DIY especially in a 3' space below a house.


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## slmc

I did my last house underneath a few years ago and the house I am in now in the attic last fall all with cpvc. I will take under the house anytime. The hardest part is dragging everything you need all the way across under the house (I only had one access point) only to find you left one thing behind. Like others have said, use plenty of hangers, pressure test it, then insulate it well.


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## ptfisher

I just replumbed one of my houses a couple of months ago with CPVC. The house is on stilts, so the access was easy. I elected to run the lines thru the beams instead of under them. I took a little longer but I plan on insulating the underside of the house later. 

I would reccomend buying the hand cutter. I cuts clean and is easy to carry around with you. I just put all my supplies in a 5 gallon bucket to tote around with me.

For a couple of hundred dollars you can DIY.


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## carryyourbooks

i hope you are putting galvanized back in! there is no way i would ever put that stuff in anywhere. i replaced all mine with cpvc. i used it for both hot and cold, so i didn't have to buy multiple kinds of fittings. of course, insulate. i know a licensed plumber, and i am sure he will quote you less than what you have so far. pm me if you want his contact info.


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## texasjellyfish

*some tips and law*

if you are renovating, repairing, painting or disturbing more than 6 square feet in a home built before 1978, you may want to check out some laws pertaining to that scope of work
http://www.epa.gov/lead/pubs/renovation.htm

dont chew your nails, payday is on friday and the boss is a sunny beach

2 gal bucket for ftgs and tools to go under with
half pint glue & primer cans ,,the dobber is small and will fit in the small ftgs
one hole cpvc straps with nail really are hard to beat , wire for temp hangers
compression angle stops below fixtures that get connected with flex is the way
toilet flex is different size than faucet flex
shower wall may need opened, good time to replace shr valve
valve on cold supply at water heater connect with brass nipples @ heater and flex from new pipes/valve
hot water pipes are more less a continuation of the cold water system
connect to water service supply for the test , test everything when piping is completed 100%
secure steel pipe for outside hose bibbs w/ vacuum breakers and adapt/cpvc below in a accesable location
insulate with foam insulation taping cuts
pvc cutters a must
cardboard works well for below house creeper
colds on the right
get all pipes stubbed thru floor to get started, keeping the hot marked at all ends
its not that hard to diy
tips from tx mpl 36748 ,hope this helps, if ya need more or get stuck pm me


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## catndahats

good advice texas jellyfish and carryyourbooks. Did you mean to say "you would never go back with galvanized"??? 

Now that I am getting into this project, I'm seriously thinking about eliminating one water heater. Like I posted earlier, this is an old house and the previous owner lived here 50 years. Over time they did a lot of questionable additions / repairs all through the house. I see no reason to have 2 gas water heaters except you get hot water really quick in both the kitchen and bath which are on opposite sides of the house. Since I will be repiping the whole house, I may just eliminate one heater. 

One reason to get rid of one is that it would end up in the new bathroom addition. If I read the plumbing code right, you cannot have a gas heater in a bathroom or sleeping area. Is this correct?


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## RB II

Great tips txjelly. Not sure you want to do this, but you can circulate the hot water to provide hot water near each fixture all of the time. Basically create a loop for the hot water piping, routing it near each fixture then on to the next and then back into the bottom of the heater. A pump can be used but convection through the water heater will/can cause the water to circulate. Cold/recirculated water in the bottom, hot out of the top, heat/hot water rises. Takes about 1/2x more pipe and labor for the hot water side but will definitely eliminate the need to run the water for 10 minutes to get hot water. If you choose a pump, it can be put on a timer to only circulate the water during times of peak use.


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## texasjellyfish

correct a normal gas tank wh cannot go in a bath/sleeping area but a 
"direct vent" gas tank wh can go in a bathroom or sleeping area, all combustion air has to come from outside to be code approved
as hydra-sports suggested a hot water return from the furtherst fixture back to wh would be the best , 
direct vent water heaters are very $$


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## carryyourbooks

catndahats said:


> Did you mean to say "you would never go back with galvanized"???


yes. imo, it is junk! i won't ever have a house again with galvanized in it.


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## catndahats

thanks Carryyourbooks.
Regardless of whether I DIY or hire someone I've decided to go CPVC, and I will keep you guys posted.

We are doing a lot this summer to the house. I have my 87 year old parents moving in with us, and am working to make the house comfortable for them (and us). The plan is to make the back of the house (3 rooms) like a small apartment for them. What I really need some dollar stretchers! Wonder if they have those at Lowes?<wink, wink> It's a lot of work, but thank God we have the summer to get it all done.


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## Pasadena1944

catndahats said:


> thanks Carryyourbooks.
> Regardless of whether I DIY or hire someone I've decided to go CPVC, and I will keep you guys posted.
> 
> We are doing a lot this summer to the house. I have my 87 year old parents moving in with us, and am working to make the house comfortable for them (and us). The plan is to make the back of the house (3 rooms) like a small apartment for them. What I really need some dollar stretchers! Wonder if they have those at Lowes?<wink, wink> It's a lot of work, but thank God we have the summer to get it all done.


If you are a veteran ask lowes for vet discount... check first, they may want proof...I got a 10% discount on an AC window unit 2 sat, ago...I just showed them my VA Medical card..


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## catndahats

Update:
Rain, rain, go away...
It's been a busy couple of weeks:

* So far, had the house raised a couple of feet to level the floors, escape floods, and now you can get under it easily. Not a DIY project. It took the 10 guy crew 4 days to complete that project. It was very interesting. Sitting inside the house while they were jacking things up and around was like being inside the cabin of a boat offshore--really affects your inner ear equilibrium and balance.
* Had a plumber come out and secure and check the gas lines to the house. I don't mess with gas.
* I've spent a couple days (pre-rain) crawling around under the house checking how the pipes are currently routed, removing miles of 50 year old rotted galvanized pipe that was left under the house from previous repairs/additions/subtractions. What a mess. The existing galvanized pipes are sagging, drooping, corroded, stuck in the mud. None of them were secured to the floor joists. I'll take pictures of the before/after and attach as soon as it dries out a bit from the rains this week.

* Currently, there are countless galvanized to pvc patches at almost every fixture. There are both hot and cold galvanized lines that run to nowhere.

* There's a mismash of small copper line runs going here and there from the gas water heater. None of the pipes are secured--just hanging and banging around under the house and in the walls. It's a miracle we have had any water the few years I have been here. The old pvc is brittle and breaks/shatters everytime you just look at it--repaired 3 breaks so far. Disconnected one gas water heater that will be removed. 

* One strange thing is the existing main water line that goes from the meter to the house. I'll try and attach a picture of my plan. It is PVC, so it must have been replaced at some point. What's odd (to me) is that the main line goes all the way around and behind the house and enters at the back of the house. I don't understand why they did not enter on the side of the house by the bathroom and first water heater. Is there a reason for that? Good news is, it is not leaking.

Besides Home Depot and Lowes, any good plumbing supply places around the Seabrook area?

Here's the current plan, any thoughts?


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## gator

It might be worth getting a plumber to work up a plan for you as you may have to get your work inspected as I'm sure codes have changed in 60 years. I ran into that with a small job in the bathroom.


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## Pasadena1944

catndahats said:


> Update:
> Rain, rain, go away...
> It's been a busy couple of weeks:
> 
> * So far, had the house raised a couple of feet to level the floors, escape floods, and now you can get under it easily. Not a DIY project. It took the 10 guy crew 4 days to complete that project. It was very interesting. Sitting inside the house while they were jacking things up and around was like being inside the cabin of a boat offshore--really affects your inner ear equilibrium and balance.
> * Had a plumber come out and secure and check the gas lines to the house. I don't mess with gas.
> * I've spent a couple days (pre-rain) crawling around under the house checking how the pipes are currently routed, removing miles of 50 year old rotted galvanized pipe that was left under the house from previous repairs/additions/subtractions. What a mess. The existing galvanized pipes are sagging, drooping, corroded, stuck in the mud. None of them were secured to the floor joists. I'll take pictures of the before/after and attach as soon as it dries out a bit from the rains this week.
> 
> * Currently, there are countless galvanized to pvc patches at almost every fixture. There are both hot and cold galvanized lines that run to nowhere.
> 
> * There's a mismash of small copper line runs going here and there from the gas water heater. None of the pipes are secured--just hanging and banging around under the house and in the walls. It's a miracle we have had any water the few years I have been here. The old pvc is brittle and breaks/shatters everytime you just look at it--repaired 3 breaks so far. Disconnected one gas water heater that will be removed.
> 
> * One strange thing is the existing main water line that goes from the meter to the house. I'll try and attach a picture of my plan. It is PVC, so it must have been replaced at some point. What's odd (to me) is that the main line goes all the way around and behind the house and enters at the back of the house. I don't understand why they did not enter on the side of the house by the bathroom and first water heater. Is there a reason for that? Good news is, it is not leaking.
> 
> Besides Home Depot and Lowes, any good plumbing supply places around the Seabrook area?
> 
> Here's the current plan, any thoughts?


It was taken to the back of the house because that is where most of the plumbing is... in a sixty year old house that bathroom at the front may have been added at a later date...

Just a guess...


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## RB II

Plan looks good. I would offer a couple of changes/ideas. Run the main water directly to the heater, then to the fixtures. You don't want to starve the heater for water when that close tub is in use. You might consider a couple of exterior hose bibs, one at each bathroom. Now is the time to install them if you want them. If you are considering a hot water loop, run a pipe directly from the far shower back to the heater. It can be 1/2" as it is only a return line. IMO, all of the main lines should be a minimum of 3/4" with 1" preferable so as maintain constant pressure throughout. One minor detail, hot is on the left, cold on the right, the kitchen sink is plumbed backwards. LOL


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