# Rifle problems



## Rebel_Ray (Jan 31, 2015)

Ok, so I was sighting in my rifle, when I notice that the bolt handle was stiff to open fully. So I examined the brass to notice that it was bulged at the base.








The one in the left is fired. The one on the right is unfired. So this worries me. I'm only an 18 year old kid so I don't know all that much. I am shooting a custom CZ 550 in 7x64 Brenneke. I usually shoot federal ammo (below)















and haven't noticed a problem. It's only when I switched to Hornaday ammo did I notice a problem. Please enlighten me on my dilemma.

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## Bottomsup (Jul 12, 2006)

Over pressure. I wouldnt shoot that ammo in your gun.


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## peckerwood (Jun 9, 2012)

Bottomsup said:


> Over pressure. I wouldnt shoot that ammo in your gun.


Exactly right! Go back to Federal if it's accurate.You may only be 18 but are bad-arse enough to spot a problem.Good job. Jerry


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## Rebel_Ray (Jan 31, 2015)

Thanks for the advice, I'll do just that!


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## Rebel_Ray (Jan 31, 2015)

So is this a common occurrence with Hornaday ammo? I was under the impression that they produce a quality product.


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## DIHLON (Nov 15, 2009)

Rebel_Ray said:


> So is this a common occurrence with Hornaday ammo? I was under the impression that they produce a quality product.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


All guns are different. Many different factors come into play with pressure: barrel length, bullet weight, amount of powder, etc. The gun Hornady used to develop that load may be way different than your gun. Do as suggested already and do not shoot any more of these in your rifle. Great job on catching it!


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## jm423 (Sep 18, 2011)

Is it just the photo or is there a big difference between fired and unfired cases at the shoulder/ case body junction and the neck discoloration also? The unfired Hornaday and the Federal (fired) seem to resemble more, the fired Hornaday seems to be expanded more and sharper break body to shoulder.


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## Rebel_Ray (Jan 31, 2015)

jm423, it's just the photo. Thanks for all the info!


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## mrsh978 (Apr 24, 2006)

All brass manufacturers are different in specs- can you put a micrometer on questionable case vs non ? Is chamber specs correct for your caliber ( a bad build ) ? Also , finish homework before gun time .....


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## Bottomsup (Jul 12, 2006)

Buy a reloading book and read it. It will give you a lot of information as to why, what and how come your looking at. No two guns are alike and when reloading they always recommend you start with a reduced powder load. It may be that your gun has a tight chamber and the Hornady loads are a tad to hot for it. Its not to be taken lightly because you are dealing with pressures in excess of 50,000 psi. A hand grenade right in your face.


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## Rebel_Ray (Jan 31, 2015)

Ok, so I got home and looked at all my brass. And even the federal was slightly bulged. How much bulge, if any, is normal? And how can I tell if it is a headspace problem rather than a chamber problem? And which one is easier to correct?


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## muney pit (Mar 24, 2014)

Pics of the primer and extractor would help out. Any flow there?


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## Rebel_Ray (Jan 31, 2015)

The federal primers look flatter, but the federal cases are less bulged.








From left to right, unfired hornaday, fired hornaday, unfired federal, fired federal.

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## muney pit (Mar 24, 2014)

Im no expert but the hornady is got overpressure signs, as usual, and is starting to flow. And that dam federal FC brass, i never reload because how soft it is. Cant tell yea how many stuck cases ive had from useing that ****. Maybe others can see something else but thats what i see from the pics


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## Rebel_Ray (Jan 31, 2015)

What is that, that you have circled? And what is "flow"?


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## Bottomsup (Jul 12, 2006)

That circle looks like the extractor plunger imprint. A sign of over pressure as well as the flattened primers. I would take it to a gunsmith who does rechambering barrel work and have him look at it. Takes a few seconds to check head space. I cant imagine what it could be for all brands of ammo to show signs of over pressure. Most factory loads are a little light as to be safe in all rifles. I have had good luck with Winchester ammo and brass.


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## Rebel_Ray (Jan 31, 2015)

It can't be an extractor plunger, cause it's a Mauser style action with a big claw extractor 


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## Bottomsup (Jul 12, 2006)

Then it must just be a flaw in the brass. I would still have a smith look at it.


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## mrsh978 (Apr 24, 2006)

Brass showing separation above base on both types. Fc is starting to push back into firing pin hole . Ok , can re read thread - are these factory ? Can you reload and back off powder charge to see if problem lessens ? Or is chamber out of specs on gun? 

It looks like factory ammo- you may have chamber/ head space issues


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## Rebel_Ray (Jan 31, 2015)

I was afraid of this. They are factory loaded ammo. The gun was in some other (smaller) caliber, then rebored by Danny Pederson to 7x64. It's probably a chamber or head space issue. Which one is easier to correct?


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## jm423 (Sep 18, 2011)

If it's a Mauser style action, you correct both by setting the barrel back (lathe job--recut shoulder on barrel and back of barrel that shoulders inside receiver) and re-chambering. Any competent gunsmith can do it. Just be sure he has correct chambering reamer and go-no go gauges. Then may need to do a re-bedding job unless rifle has a floating barrel.


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## Rebel_Ray (Jan 31, 2015)

If they do that, will the gun need to be refinished?


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## woods (Dec 3, 2011)

A bulge close to the case head at the "pressure ring" is an indication of the size of your chamber. Not unusual

Here is a 30-06 Steyr fired case










It occurs where the case goes from a solid head to an open powder column










I've been told that factories purchase reamers close to SAAMI maximum dimensions and through use they do wear down to SAAMI minimum. Chambers will go from large to small. All my rifles exhibit this to some varying degree except for my custom 280AI which has no bulge and the Redding Body Die will not even size the body of the case.


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## Rebel_Ray (Jan 31, 2015)

So should I just leave it be? It does make the bolt rather stiff upon opening it.


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## woods (Dec 3, 2011)

All I'm saying is that the bulge at the pressure ring is not a CLEAR indication of pressure. It happens

There may be other causes for your stiff bolt lift:

Some bolts are harder to open than others. Try lifting after chambering an UNFIRED load. Compare

If it happens on a case RESIZED multiple times, then you sizing die internal dimension is too large and not sizing the case body down sufficiently 

The load may in fact be over pressure although there are no signs of a brass swipe on the case head. If the cases hold primers then there is no obvious foul as you can load at a lower level and reuse the cases

The cases themselves may be severely banana shaped caused by too large a variance in brass thickness from one side to the other. You have a chance of identifying this by gauging at the neck since brass thickness variance will continue down into the case body

You may have a rough chamber


Factory loads are a **** shoot and IMO much better to buy new cases and load reasonably from the start.

But to answer your question, if you need the brass, shoot cautiously and continue to look for signs of trouble. What velocities are you getting on the factory loads?


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## Rebel_Ray (Jan 31, 2015)

It only sticks with fired cases, I don't have a chronograph. Here is what the box says.















That is a piece of fired brass that I put back into the action and opened and closed it until it no longer stuck.

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## Rebel_Ray (Jan 31, 2015)

It wears that bright ring into it when I do that. 


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## woods (Dec 3, 2011)

You have multiple areas with scratches, most notably at the neck/shoulder junction and the pressure ring. I'm guessing (and that's all any of us can do) that you have a rough chamber.

Take to a gunsmith and have him polish the chamber. Shouldn't be too expensive


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## Bottomsup (Jul 12, 2006)

Guys he is shooting multiple factory loads. Has nothing to do with resizing dies. Yes your chamber is rough creating the shiny rings. It could be oversized at the back of the chamber causing the bulging but based on what the primer looks like and the hard to open bolt its over pressure. I dont think you clarified if the bolt handle was hard to lift open or pull back? Please take it to a reputable smith with your fired cases and post what he says.


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## Rebel_Ray (Jan 31, 2015)

It is only hard to pull the bolt handle upwards. Pulling it backwards is normal.


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## Bottomsup (Jul 12, 2006)

Then you most likely have an over pressure situation.


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## Wado (May 15, 2011)

Probably a dull or rented chamber reamer that cut the neck too small. I had two .270's do it cut with the same reamer, really had to watch what I fed them. They only did it on hand loads that were still under max but never did it on factory stuff. There is a very small threshold for pressure when you have problems in a chamber such as a small neck or short throat. That particular gun doesn't like Hornady, even if it is store bought. I had a heck of a wreck with those two .270's. Looking at his brass he was still moderately safe, next scenario would have been a blown primer and the rim ripped off buy the extractor and flowback into the ejector cut on the Mauser style bolt. Then hunting a brass rod to knock the brass out if the head was still intact. I forgot about beating the bolt open with a block of wood and a hammer.


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## Rebel_Ray (Jan 31, 2015)

Ok, see I took it back to the gunsmith I bought it from. He diagnosed it as excessive headspace. The gun was his own personal gun. It was originally in 7x57 and he had Danny Pederson in Prescott AZ ream it out to 7x64. So he's going to set back the barrel and recut the chamber. Thanks for all the help! I'll give y'all an update when I get it back.


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## woods (Dec 3, 2011)

Your primer pictures do not indicate excessive headspace, not flattened enough. Excessive headspace does not have any correlation to scratches on the case body or hard bolt lift

But good that you are going to get some work on it and the chamber will probably get cleaned up


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## Wado (May 15, 2011)

I have seen excessive head space where the head actually separated, no sticky bolt. When the brass was ejected the head actually came apart from the body of the case. This was an old 7.65 Argentine Mauser that was pretty worn.


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## jimk (May 28, 2004)

Article in the just-out January, 2016 issue of "Rifle" addresses cartridge/chamber headspace. Author makes the point that it will deform the cartridge case permanently forming a "stretch ring" just above the solid case head. The OP's pictures have a stretch ring very similar to the pictures in the article.


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