# Bend-backs and Keel Hooks



## Permit Rat (May 13, 2014)

I have been reading posts on redfish flies now, for a while and no one has mentioned bend-back or even keel hooks for un-weighted flies, where you want the hook point to ride up, so as to avoid weeds. Flies tied on these hooks are deadly. Even a Redfish Crack, could be adapted to a bend-back design. Redkiller99's new fly could be well adapted to a keel hook. I have said this before, that IMO, up-turned hooks are no hindrance when used for fish with inferior mouths and rubber lips. LOL.... What sez everyone?


----------



## southpaw (Feb 25, 2009)

Bugchunker ties up a bend back shrimp pattern with a rattle. I got one in a swap and it's pretty deadly on reds. I just never tied any myself so after the ones I got from him got torn up I never tied new ones. It was a good pattern though. It looks super simple to tie. It's just mylar with a rattle and some bucktail. Looks like this










If you're fishing in the LLM for reds, I would definitely tie flies that rode hook up or had a weed guard to deal with the floating grass down there. One reason I never really have tied bend backs was I read somewhere a long time ago that your hookset isn't as good since you're no longer pulling in line with the point of the hook. That may only be true for fish with hard mouths like tarpon though. But for whatever reason I've just never really tied bendbacks. If I have to deal with grass, then I usually tie something that'll either ride hook up, with a weedguard or both.


----------



## karstopo (Jun 29, 2009)

I tied a few bend backs earlier on. I think I read the same thing southpaw did about the hook set. I tie a couple of my favorite inshore redfish and friends patterns on 60 degree jig hooks. I read the 60 degree jig hook is good for hook set and keeping them hooked. I had to look up keel hooks because I had never heard of them. But yes, I want anything shallow to ride point up. And at least some should have weed guards. 60 degree jig hooks aren't weedless, but the beat point down patterns for hang ups. They will catch shell and cordgrass, not every piece, but eventually. Two pronged little weed guards made from old 40#leader butt sections work pretty well around cordgrass and shell. You can get them stuck but you have to work at it.


----------



## redkiller99 (Feb 28, 2013)

Permit Rat said:


> I have been reading posts on redfish flies now, for a while and no one has mentioned bend-back or even keel hooks for un-weighted flies, where you want the hook point to ride up, so as to avoid weeds. Flies tied on these hooks are deadly. Even a Redfish Crack, could be adapted to a bend-back design. Redkiller99's new fly could be well adapted to a keel hook. I have said this before, that IMO, up-turned hooks are no hindrance when used for fish with inferior mouths and rubber lips. LOL.... What sez everyone?


I think a hook like that would be an improvement. I'm not a master quite yet and do not know how to keep the hook point up without a weight. What size would you recommend?

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


----------



## bugchunker (Dec 23, 2013)

Thanks for the feed back ''southpaw'' Iread the same thing about bend backs poor hook sets. The early ones did have that problem. But that was because they were bent back too far. I bend my own hooks and only put enough bend in them so they will ride point up. Know I have no problems with hooks pulling out. I also make mine with a fuller body so it will sink slower that way I can work it slower over grass.


----------



## Permit Rat (May 13, 2014)

I think that bugchunker's flies in the photo, are tied on keel hooks and not bend-backs. Please correct me if I am wrong. But it has been suggested that keel hooks need to be opened up a bit, for a more positive bite into the fish's mouth. It's done with pliers and there is a photo of what the hook should look like, in at least the first edition of Lefty's _Fly Fishing in Salt Waters_

Below are two iconic Florida redfish flies, given to me for the pattern by their creator, Liz Steele. The white one is the Tin Lizzie and the bottom is the copper Lizzie. The latter has caught numerous redfish and is still in pretty good shape! Both flies are about 30 years old, so the colors may not be accurate. I noted that the Tin Lizzie's hook is not bent as much as the Copper. Yet I used the Copper almost exclusively and do not recall ever pulling a hook. These flies are tied rather full, creating their own weed guards.


----------



## bugchunker (Dec 23, 2013)

Actually those''rattle rats'' were tied on straight hooks. I put the slightest bend in them so that the eyelet is in line with the barb. The bend backs that have problems are the ones that the eyelet is in line with the point or more. It doesn't take much to get the hook to ride point up, espicially if you have a large full wing on the fly.


----------



## Permit Rat (May 13, 2014)

OK, now I can see what you have done. I checked the bend on the flies I posted and the bend still is below the barb. It doesn't take much to achieve the desired effect. I think also that shorter shanked hooks better lend themselves to "bending." Bugchunker, are the shanks on those flies longer than a standard 34007?
ã€€
I wish Eagle Claw had adopted the 259 CD that they made for us one year. The 259 N (nickel plated) is (IMO) one of the best fly hooks ever made. It has a long but well-supported hook point that lends itself to sharpening, while the shorter shank really wants to make that point dig into the fish's mouth. They are very inexpensive to boot. 
ã€€
The problem with the 259 N was/is that it would rust badly. You didn't want to sharpen the point of a pre-made tarpon fly/leader, until you actually used the fly. The fly you replaced it with and put back on the stretcher, the hook point area where you sharpened, would be rusty by the end of the day. No exaggeration here. In a week or so, the fly would be unusable. Like I said, Eagle Claw, at our request, cadmium plated a run of 3/0 and 4/0 259's and we had the best tarpon hooks one could buy, at least back in those days. They rusted about on par as a 3407, which was not too bad. BTW, they also always made a 254 SS (stainless) but these hooks were prone to breaking, as well as not being the desired material for tarpon and certain other species.


----------

