# Shoalwater's 21 Cat Vs Ultracat 22' help



## FLATSDADDY (Mar 25, 2008)

I am looking at a new boat purchase (within the next 7 to 10 days). I plan on doing mostly bay/flats fishing. I am intrigued by the Ultracat's hull design and performance claims but skeptical at their young firm's tenure in the boat building business(+- 3 years). Shoalwaters are built to handle the heavy set ladies in south Texas but that stregth comes at a weight and perhaps price premium but they have been in the business a long time and have a sound reputation. I am looking at riggin the boat with a 150 to 200 E-tech. Any help would be much appreciated as I am pretty close to making a purchase. I am currently talking to a Ultracat and a Shoalwater dealer. Neither one really seems to have any dirt on the other which is a good sign, I think. Ultracats seem to have a few advantages by them being all composite plus their hull seems to be Hydrodynamically superior in design, and foam filled; but their fit and finish seem to lag in craftmanship and look a bit raw or unrefined. The Shoalwater still use lumber and are therefore heavier than the Ultracats, but their fit and finish is better or at least give the impression of more refined craftmanship. Shoalwaters have a premium price on their boats but peace of mind is part of the package in knowing the company has had a long tenure in making boats.
As you can see, the choice is a hard one and I will probably be ok with either one, but I just want any positive or negative feedback on anything I might be missing.

Thanks


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## ShaloowMinded (Mar 6, 2008)

Shoalwater is by far a better boat....Dont be scared of wood in boats....its just a myth.....unless its not built good....where do you fish???


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## jhbarc (Aug 28, 2006)

I would have to disagree Shaloowminded .


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## FishinHippie (Jun 19, 2005)

I've heard plenty of good things about the ultracats but have never been in one.

Have you considered the Mosca Cuda Cat? Lifetime warranty for first owner! Mosca is also a relativly new manufacture, but their boats are very nice!

http://moscaboats.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=14&Itemid=26


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## ShaloowMinded (Mar 6, 2008)

Your vote doesnt count.....since you obviously bought one...there good boats.....but the finish latches, the ugly groove in the deck.....what is that for anyways??....I bet it beats you to death in 1 to 2 foot chop....But maybe you just stay skinny all the time....I would like to know where he fishes to best help him pick the best boat for him and his area/style


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## Capt Ryan Rachunek (Feb 16, 2006)

Depending on your application, this cat might interest you:


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## ShaloowMinded (Mar 6, 2008)

That Mosca is probably $$$$45,000$$$$$


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## Capt Ryan Rachunek (Feb 16, 2006)

ShaloowMinded said:


> Shoalwater is by far a better boat....Dont be scared of wood in boats....its just a myth.....unless its not built good....where do you fish???


Unless something has changed with Shoalwater, I wouldn't recommend them over the Ultra Cat. I have owned two Shoalwater boats and after the hull de-laminated on the first one, I got another one to replace it and sold it ASAP.....


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## FLATSDADDY (Mar 25, 2008)

Thanks for all the info guys. I fish mostly in the Port Mansfield and lower Laguna Madre flats. Water gets skinny and at times the chop gets nasty going through the intercoastal. I had a 17 Shoalwater flats with a 90 Yamaha, but sold it about 3 years ago. I am looking to upsize to something in the 20' range in order to take my family(wife and 3 little ones) with me. I do not say upgrade as I know that going from the 17 flats to a 21 cat, I will probably comprimise shallow performance but gain in the space and perhaps rough water, ride comfort, dryness departments. So the requirements are as follows: Good space, drifting or static stability, good modest to rough chop manners, and as best as possible shallow performance. I would like osmething that will get up on plane pronto, as I will probably have a good load of fuel, equipment, and people on board most of the time. I know the order keeps getting taller, but these two boats I am looking at plus a bunch more out there are good on most of my requirements and a good compromise in the rest of items I listed.


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## FLATSDADDY (Mar 25, 2008)

One thing I did not mention was budget. I am looking at keeping the boat at under 36 to 38k drive out. Again the "essentials" 20-22', 150-200 hp E-tech, aluminum tandem axle trailer, 1-2 ice boxes, insulated well, jack plate, trim tabs(either configuration), rod holders, plenty of dry storage, good size fuel tank(35-50 gal).


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## easy1 (Jan 21, 2008)

Ultra Cat is junky and the SCB is not worth the money they want the only reason Rachetneck has one is becuase they sponsered him.Shoalwater is the way to go.


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## wahoo (Jun 2, 2004)

What about a Tran Cat?


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## irbjd (Aug 11, 2005)

Might want to look at a Majek Illusion, too.


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## Capt Scott Hataway (Feb 17, 2005)

The illusion is not a true cat but you can't go wrong with a Majek they built some of the best most finished out looking boats around.


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## jhbarc (Aug 28, 2006)

*Uc*

ShaloowMinded The reason for the grooves is that the fuel tank (38 gallons in an 18' boat) is in the hull not under the console. By placing the fuel tank lower the ride is improved . While the Ultra Cat will definitely not handle chop like a TV hull I think it just might suprise you. Just currious but have you ever even fished or ridden in an UltraCat. It always amazes me when people are so quick to slam some product when they realy have no first hand knowledge of said product. I am also aware of the fact if you have laid out the money for a particular product it is only natural to feel partial to it.
Also I agree that the seams are a bit unsightly and the calk tends to mildue easily. When I was looking to buy my boat I had far fewer options than are available today. Basicaly there was only Flats Cat , Trans Cat and the new kid on the block UltraCat. The Tran cat was conciderably more expensive and I demoed the both the Flats Cat and The UltraCat and was sold on the UltraCat.


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## trout assassin (Jan 30, 2007)

you shouldn't have trouble keeping it in that price range. i just got a 22 gulf coast variside with 200 yamaha, trolling motor, power pole and gps for the price range your talking about. not as shallow as what you want, but can still run in 9 inches and a good dry jettie boat.


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## ShaloowMinded (Mar 6, 2008)

I found out that the ultra cat is easliy swamped by other boats wakes if not on plane. Also there wasnt much storage....Yes ive been on them. Not my kinda of boat. What did u not like about the flats cat?


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## Castaway Rods (Aug 15, 2005)

ShaloowMinded said:


> I found out that the ultra cat is easliy swamped by other boats wakes if not on plane. Also there wasnt much storage....Yes ive been on them. Not my kinda of boat. What did u not like about the flats cat?


Look, I'm no longer sponsored by them and run another boat now. Who ever told you that they are easily swamped is talking out of his you know what! If you rode in one, you didn't take in account what the boat will do. Maybe the boat is not for you, but it is for others.

Now, to the question in point. IMHO, you won't go wrong with either boat. I can tell you that the Ultra Cat will float skinnier and get up a little shallower. We are not talking about a lot, but it will out perform in that area. As far as running skinny, I think they all run the same.... in spit.

I would take in account that the Ultra Cat has a wider beam than the Shoalwater. The Shoalwater probably handles the rough stough better, maybe wetter, but maybe a little smoother due to the extra weight. Mind you, the Ultra Cat will suprise you with how it rides, but if I'm going to be honest, I'm going to be honest.

The other thing is that the 22xs will probably out run the Shoalwater with the same engine. I know there are Shoalwaters with a 250 out there, but you may have to be Pro Staff to get that rating. I know the Ultra Cat 22xs with a 200 ETEC will run around 55 mph, depending on load.

If you will look on the 2cool classifieds, there is a 22xs Ultra Cat for sale. Chris Kohnert has his for sale and it has a ton of custom work done to it, plus a 200 ETEC.

Drive them both and make your own decision. I'm sure you'll get the best boat that is for you.

Best Regards,
Capt. Jimmie Dooms


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## o_brother (Jul 26, 2007)

Hey Flatsdaddy, I looked at them all last year when I was trying to decided which flats boat to buy. My final two came down too Ultracat and Majek. I test drove both and went through all the options, prices etc.... I choose Majek. One big reason was I knew that a Majek would be easy to sell if I decided after a few years to sell or trade. And that was based on the fact that Majek has been around and their boats are traded and sold with relative ease. Good luck on your choice. I know you can't wait....

Mike


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## Castaway Rods (Aug 15, 2005)

o_brother said:


> Hey Flatsdaddy, I looked at them all last year when I was trying to decided which flats boat to buy. My final two came down too Ultracat and Majek. I test drove both and went through all the options, prices etc.... I choose Majek. One big reason was I knew that a Majek would be easy to sell if I decided after a few years to sell or trade. And that was based on the fact that Majek has been around and their boats are traded and sold with relative ease. Good luck on your choice. I know you can't wait....
> 
> Mike


You can't argue with that. That is just part of the growing pains of a new boat. It takes some time for people to get confidence in the boat, then even longer for them to build confidence in them that they will be around down the road. Like I said, you can't argue with that. Good point to consider.

Best Regards,
Capt. Jimmie Dooms


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## Priority1 (Aug 21, 2005)

*Shoalwater / Ultracat*



ShaloowMinded said:


> Shoalwater is by far a better boat....Dont be scared of wood in boats....its just a myth.....unless its not built good....where do you fish???


When you write "by far a better boat....." what specifically are you referring to ?

You mentioned "finish latches", but I don't recall seeing anything like this on an UltraCat (what are they ?). You also describe "&#8230;the ugly groove in the deck&#8230;", however, the last one I looked at had two groves.

Do you have some good technical information regarding the Shoalwater 21 cat that you might share with us ??


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## wahoo (Jun 2, 2004)

I don't understand why the Tran Cat is not in this conversation. I have not been on the Shoalwater, but imho the Tran Cat has better finish and rides better than the Ultra Cat. Runs shallow, runs smooth (bit wet if weighted down in bow), gets up in shallow water. And what about the Flats Cat - I like the looks of that boat, too. But never been on them. But I have heard good things about the Flats Cat.


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## hotfoot (Mar 22, 2008)

Hey Jimmy, you change boats over the weekend or what???? I have'nt heard from anyone yet!!!


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## Andrew Mox (Dec 20, 2007)

*Seek the Facts for Yourself*

My recommendation is to go on a demo ride on both boats. Only then can you make an educated decision on what boat fits your needs. To buy a boat only on the recommendation from somebody from a website who has a vested interest as a sponsored guide, pro-staff, or some other brother-in-law deal would be a mistake. Look at them all ride the ones you like buy a great boat.


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## fishnfool (Jul 23, 2004)

I have no personal experience in an UltraCat so won't comment on it. I did go for a ride in a Shoalwater Cat and TranCat with the same motor before buying my TranCat. The Tran boat is faster and much drier in rough water. The ride and shallow water abilities were close enough to the same that I wouldn't say one or the other are better.

Your price range is good without lots of extras. I highly rec you get a raised console. It helps you to see better, gives more storage, and keeps any spray that comes in around your feet so you stay dry.


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## Castaway Rods (Aug 15, 2005)

hotfoot said:


> Hey Jimmy, you change boats over the weekend or what???? I have'nt heard from anyone yet!!!


No, I changed a few weeks back. I thought I told you that? Anyhow, it doesn't change my mind on the boat. I have a call into the owner and a few boat owners so that you can take a demo ride. I'm trying to reach my tournament partner, he has one and can take you on a demo.


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## hotfoot (Mar 22, 2008)

Thanks Jimmy. If you told me I guess I missed it. Hope you still have my #.
Flatsdaddy my wife and I took a test in a 20xs last friday and can tell you the 20 rides very well indeed . I think the 22 will probably do even better. We are also buying new and will try the Mosca Cat soon as Ceasar calls us


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## fishin shallow (Jul 31, 2005)

I have a 20' with a 150 etec and couldn't be happier.


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## Supergas (Nov 30, 2004)

*Boatright*

Check out the Boatright 20 or 22..

www.boatrightmarine.com

Great boats, & don't let anyone tell you they don't ride good in a tough chop...

Go ride on one & you will change your mind....

My opinion after 40+ years of fishing the backcountry.. the only reason I sold mine is I am after Tarpon & more offshore in my latter years...

Supergas


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## aggie80 (Aug 21, 2007)

I would not count out the haynie. I just got a h.o. and love it. it is a little bigger than what you are looking for but they have a boat in you size range that might fit well. As for ride, you can't beat it. It is by far the smoothest riding bay boat i've been in. It's as about as smooth as my dads 24' everglades. Check out chris's marine in aransas pass. They were great to deal with and they sure do have a nice product. chrismarineboats.com or hayniebayboats.com


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## Shoal Time (Sep 4, 2007)

FLATSDADDY said:


> One thing I did not mention was budget. I am looking at keeping the boat at under 36 to 38k drive out. Again the "essentials" 20-22', 150-200 hp E-tech, aluminum tandem axle trailer, 1-2 ice boxes, insulated well, jack plate, trim tabs(either configuration), rod holders, plenty of dry storage, good size fuel tank(35-50 gal).


I have never been in a Ultracat, so I can not comment on it but I have owned 2 Shoalwater 21 Cats, both with raised console, hyd jack plate, trim tabs, power pole, large fuel cells......one was a 2006 21 Cat with a 200HP E-tec (not HO) and a 2008 21 Cat with a Mercury 225 PRO XS.

I know it may not be fair to compare the 2 different motors because the E-tec was not a HO, and the Mercury has 25 more HP, but man-o-man the Mercury Pro XS by far out performs the E-tec in holeshot, acceleration, and speed. I am by no means talking bad about the E-tec as it has its place, it is very quiet, fuel efficient, oil efficient and doesn't require maintenance for the first 300 hours but with the budget you have, in my opinion I would go with Mercury PRO XS.


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## ESCB Factory (Apr 30, 2006)

FLATSDADDY,

You have a PM


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## fishnfool (Jul 23, 2004)

Shoal Time,


Nice boat - how fast is it with the Pro XS?


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## Shoal Time (Sep 4, 2007)

fishnfool said:


> Shoal Time,
> 
> Nice boat - how fast is it with the Pro XS?


Thanks,...not exactly sure yet, as I'm still waiting on my GPS. But I was told by Gene (owner of Shoalwater) that he took it out for a test ride and was able to run it with 4 guys at 54 mph. I'll post numbers after I get the GPS installed (hopefully)this weekend.

Flatsdaddy, sorry for the hijack.

Ross


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## FLATSDADDY (Mar 25, 2008)

No problem shoal time, as I am just as interested in your data. Where did you get your rig at if you don't mind me asking? And last and perhaps most important, what's been your experience with the 21 cat? Performance wise. I understand these boats are not mass produced so there might be some slight differences from hull to hull and the boeat I demo might not feel or ride exactly like the one you have.


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## flattop (Mar 25, 2008)

Capt Ryan Rachunek said:


> Unless something has changed with Shoalwater, I wouldn't recommend them over the Ultra Cat. I have owned two Shoalwater boats and after the hull de-laminated on the first one, I got another one to replace it and sold it ASAP.....


Hey Capt.Shoalwater wants to know where their $$$ is? what you owe.


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## Castaway Rods (Aug 15, 2005)

flattop said:


> Hey Capt.Shoalwater wants to know where their $$$ is? what you owe.


If he does, this is not the place to bring it up. Have a little cooth or be the more professional one in this matter if he does.

I just love the 1st time poster's coming out with the torches and pitch forks. hwell:


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## Capt Ryan Rachunek (Feb 16, 2006)

flattop said:


> Hey Capt.Shoalwater wants to know where their $$$ is? what you owe.


Are you kidding me??? :rotfl:

Thanks Jimmy, good to see that some people here are professional and don't hide behind nicknames.....


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## flattop (Mar 25, 2008)

Team Castaway said:


> If he does, this is not the place to bring it up. Have a little cooth or be the more professional one in this matter if he does.
> 
> I just love the 1st time poster's coming out with the torches and pitch forks. hwell:


Ok was it professionel for him to bash Shoalwater like he did? i have been running Shoalwater for ten years without a single problem! btw it's none of your bidness Doomass,stick to what you know..........


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## flattop (Mar 25, 2008)

Capt Ryan Rachunek said:


> Are you kidding me??? :rotfl:
> 
> Thanks Jimmy, good to see that some people here are professional and don't hide behind nicknames.....


No i'm not kidding.i'll take it to a pm.


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## Castaway Rods (Aug 15, 2005)

flattop said:


> Ok was it professionel for him to bash Shoalwater like he did? i have been running Shoalwater for ten years without a single problem! btw it's none of your bidness Doomass,stick to what you know..........


Well, if you do work for Shoalwater, I'm sure they'd be happy to know how professional that comment was??? hwell:

Good grief, the guy gave his personal experience, his happen to be bad. I gave you all the respect and props that I could have, probably more than I should have to be exact. Let's see a ton of post that are good, one that is bad. I'm sure we are all smart enough to know that there is probably more to the story than has been said.

I'll be more professional and ignore your very smart and professional comment. By the way, you should get a few more post on here before you start throwing out flames. JMHO though.


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## Capt Ryan Rachunek (Feb 16, 2006)

Never bashed Shoalwater, just voiced my experience..... I prefer the Ultracat over the Shoalwater, bottom line. Don't know what you're going to take to PM, but go ahead.....

Jimmy, if there is a story i'd like to hear it..... :rotfl:


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## myprozac (Feb 7, 2006)

Forget those boats and get a newwater.


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## flattop (Mar 25, 2008)

Capt Ryan Rachunek said:


> Unless something has changed with Shoalwater, I wouldn't recommend them over the Ultra Cat. I have owned two Shoalwater boats and after the hull de-laminated on the first one, I got another one to replace it and sold it ASAP.....


Does this mirror your idea of professionalism? I doubt anyone should buy or dismiss a boat brand based on a guide who does not run but a few trips per month.

The best way to make the decision is to run them all.

Should have stayed in college and perfected those keg stands, LOL.


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## flattop (Mar 25, 2008)

Team Castaway said:


> Well, if you do work for Shoalwater, I'm sure they'd be happy to know how professional that comment was??? hwell:
> 
> Good grief, the guy gave his personal experience, his happen to be bad. I gave you all the respect and props that I could have, probably more than I should have to be exact. Let's see a ton of post that are good, one that is bad. I'm sure we are all smart enough to know that there is probably more to the story than has been said.
> 
> I'll be more professional and ignore your very smart and professional comment. By the way, you should get a few more post on here before you start throwing out flames. JMHO though.


So Jimmy how many post are required before i can reply to someone? I didn't know you judged people by how many times they post up? is there a montly pull? me being new here tell me how many post will it take me to look as cool as you?.........Ultra cat is the best.....no wait! i have a Lake and Bay now so they must be the best.


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## Castaway Rods (Aug 15, 2005)

flattop said:


> So Jimmy how many post are required before i can reply to someone? I didn't know you judged people by how many times they post up? is there a montly pull? me being new here tell me how many post will it take me to look as cool as you?.........Ultra cat is the best.....no wait! i have a Lake and Bay now so they must be the best.


Yes, you are correct. I stand corrected. I am unprofessional, sorry for getting involved. Hail to the almighty Shoalwater!

It's a good thing that Gene and Steve Bell are stand up guys and build great boats.

This issue is dead as far as I'm concerned, but I will end with something. See if you are brand new as your history shows, then how in the hell would you know that I have pushed the Ultra Cat on here? How would you know I am pushing the Lake and Bay now? What it is another ploy by someone who has been kicked off of here before and have now come back under another alias.... who refuses to ever reveal themselves and chooses to hide behind your screen.

I'm not responding to another of your posts. This is what I've discussed with Mont in the past. I talk with a lot of people and a lot of people are getting sick of the trash that comes on here to simply talk smack or start wars.

This topic once again, has gone off topic. I have given Shoalwater a lot of props and respect in the past and will continue to do so in the future. They build a great boat, as do many other boat companies. I've said a thousand times on here that I recommend the Ultra Cat, but it is best to test drive all in consideration and then choose the boat that best fits your needs. Not every boat is built for everyone in mind. Some boats are stronger in other areas than others and visa versa.

So, to the originator of this topic. I apologize for everyone on your topic being side railed. That was not the intent of anyone on here, except for the maybe the newbie. If you would like to talk with someone about the Shoalwater, I'd highly recommend discussing this with either Drew or Manual over at Portland Marine. You may want to wait until Monday to do so. This will give them some time to heal after the funeral tomorrow for Mr. Richard Foley.


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## flattop (Mar 25, 2008)

Hey brilliant, not sure if you have checked lately, but you can view this web site without being a member.

And, since I have been viewing for a while, I have noticed one thing in common with all of the threads you get involved in, they ultimately turn into "look at me, I'm Jimmy Dommis" threads. LOL! What a shill.

You don't have a iron in this fire, go pre-fish whatever tournament you're about to lose. LOL.



Team Castaway said:


> Yes, you are correct. I stand corrected. I am unprofessional, sorry for getting involved. Hail to the almighty Shoalwater!
> 
> It's a good thing that Gene and Steve Bell are stand up guys and build great boats.
> 
> ...


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## TKoenig (Apr 8, 2007)

to my understandings this thread was supposed to be about opinions and experiences.... i dont know where it went from there...

yes i have heard alot of bad things about shoalwaters, but that was back in the early 90's when the company was owned by sumone in austin. i first hand ripped up the floors on 2-3 of them and they were cheaply made (lack of material). i would stay away from the early 90's models but besides that they have been working very hard to get that tarnish off of their name... i have not seen or heard of any problems with the newer shoalwaters...


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## 6.5 shooter dude (Jan 8, 2008)

It went South.....as for the topic if you can try to run both boats I'm sure you cant go wrong with either


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## bk005 (Feb 23, 2005)

flattop said:


> Hey brilliant, not sure if you have checked lately, but you can view this web site without being a member.
> 
> And, since I have been viewing for a while, I have noticed one thing in common with all of the threads you get involved in, they ultimately turn into "look at me, I'm Jimmy Dommis" threads. LOL! What a shill.
> 
> You don't have a iron in this fire, go pre-fish whatever tournament you're about to lose. LOL.


Can you go back to just browsing then, you probably never hijacked threads that way.


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## flattop (Mar 25, 2008)

bk005 said:


> Can you go back to just browsing then, you probably never hijacked threads that way.


You must have me confused with someone else. Run along and go find you a good tail-pipe.


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## jamie_hinesley (Jul 2, 2006)

Try looking into Flatscat. I got one 2 weeks ago and I am VERY happy. New boat, new 150 E-Tech.... What else could a man want!!! Call Bill [email protected] 281-342-3940 or goto www.flatscat.com You won't be dissapointed!!


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## bk005 (Feb 23, 2005)

flattop said:


> You must have me confused with someone else. Run along and go find you a good tail-pipe.


*OK USA !*


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## flattop (Mar 25, 2008)

Team Castaway said:


> Yes, you are correct. I stand corrected. I am unprofessional, sorry for getting involved. Hail to the almighty Shoalwater!
> 
> It's a good thing that Gene and Steve Bell are stand up guys and build great boats.
> 
> ...


Sorry for getting involved?...well ok..just don't get involved again! not everybody wants a Doomass boat.


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## Castaway Rods (Aug 15, 2005)

flattop said:


> Sorry for getting involved?...well ok..just don't get involved again! not everybody wants a Doomass boat.


OH MY GOD! LOL! This is ridiculous.

You know, to hell with this. Apparently Mont, nor any of the administrators on this site want to do anything about total cowards that jump on this site and start stuff right off the bat and then hide behind an alias.

When you decide to come out and show yourself, be sure and do it so that the world knows who you are. Until then, forget any future responses from me.

:hairout: :hairout: :hairout:


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## ShaloowMinded (Mar 6, 2008)

Hey jimmy....dont get mad at these silly people....go play with those beutiful dogs you got.....All this talk about whos got the best boat....It really doesnt matter what kind of boat you run.....What really matters is IF YOU CAN PUT FISH IN IT........


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## Capt Ryan Rachunek (Feb 16, 2006)

ShaloowMinded said:


> Hey jimmy....dont get mad at these silly people....go play with those beutiful dogs you got.....All this talk about whos got the best boat....It really doesnt matter what kind of boat you run.....What really matters is IF YOU CAN PUT FISH IN IT........


Ditto..... Don't worry about the newbie from the shallow end of the gene pool.....


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## capt henry (Apr 15, 2005)

hey Flatsdaddy come on down to POC and i will give you a run on the Cat 21, show you the factory and let you me the guys that build the boats. 
heck while we are out testing the boat we will test the water for a couple of fish, all on me. since you had to read all of the junk on this thread

Capt Henry


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## hotfoot (Mar 22, 2008)

Whats the wait on a new 21 Capt Henry??


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## capt henry (Apr 15, 2005)

hotfoot said:


> Whats the wait on a new 21 Capt Henry??


six to eight weeks the last i heard

henry


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## hotfoot (Mar 22, 2008)

how much weight does the raised console add? Who are they using to do the alluminum work?


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## capt henry (Apr 15, 2005)

hotfoot said:


> how much weight does the raised console add? Who are they using to do the alluminum work?


not sure how much more it adds, but it will let you have a larger fuel tank and 
more storage area, i will be happy to find out for you.
they are using craig vossler for the metal work. he is a great artist when it comes to aluminum.

capt henry


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## Castaway Rods (Aug 15, 2005)

ShaloowMinded said:


> Hey jimmy....dont get mad at these silly people....go play with those beutiful dogs you got.....All this talk about whos got the best boat....It really doesnt matter what kind of boat you run.....What really matters is IF YOU CAN PUT FISH IN IT........


Thanks. I'm not responding to anymore of this guys D.A. comments.  I've done enough so far and I'm not stooping to his level any longer. I'm done with it.


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## flattop (Mar 25, 2008)

capt henry said:


> not sure how much more it adds, but it will let you have a larger fuel tank and
> more storage area, i will be happy to find out for you.
> they are using craig vossler for the metal work. he is a great artist when it comes to aluminum.
> 
> capt henry


Vossler does great work. He has built some stuff for probably the most discerning fishermen in POC.


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## flattop (Mar 25, 2008)

hotfoot said:


> how much weight does the raised console add? Who are they using to do the alluminum work?


Think it depends on the model, never had one myself. Guessing 200 lbs. or less.


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## flattop (Mar 25, 2008)

Capt Ryan Rachunek said:


> Ditto..... Don't worry about the newbie from the shallow end of the gene pool.....


They have "WI-FI" at the frat party? Go do something besides kicking the other guides' gut buckets at the harbor. LOL, greaser!


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## Shoal Time (Sep 4, 2007)

FLATSDADDY said:


> No problem shoal time, as I am just as interested in your data. Where did you get your rig at if you don't mind me asking? And last and perhaps most important, what's been your experience with the 21 cat? Performance wise. I understand these boats are not mass produced so there might be some slight differences from hull to hull and the boeat I demo might not feel or ride exactly like the one you have.


I purchased both boats from Andrew Mox at the Gander Mountain on HWY 290.

From my personal experience in running the boats, they BOTH will run extremely shallow (around 4" on plane), get up in under 8", handle choppy water OK and are pretty dry (get the raised console, it will help).

Performance wise, the E-tec 200 with a 18P BRP Cyclone 4 Blade Prop would run 44-46MPH with a load of 2 guys, fishing gear, ice in both ice chests, and 20 gallons of fuel-BTW the E-tec was a gas sipper.

The Mercury 225 PRO XS with a 22P Mercury Enertia 3 Blade Prop is RIDICULOUS!! I don't know what the top speed is yet, because I'm waiting on my GPS, but I can tell you that the hole shot and acceleration is incredible... it makes me smile when I hammer down on it to get on plane.


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## hotfoot (Mar 22, 2008)

how do you think the performance would be with a Yamaha trp?


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## bk005 (Feb 23, 2005)

Probably outrageous holeshot, and top end 5 mph short of the E-Tec. Not sure just making a guess based from the 21ft T-cat I had with TRP.


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## flattop (Mar 25, 2008)

Team Castaway said:


> Thanks. I'm not responding to anymore of this guys D.A. comments. I've done enough so far and I'm not stooping to his level any longer. I'm done with it.


Thanks for the update Doomass. More at 11, I hope?


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## Shoal Time (Sep 4, 2007)

hotfoot said:


> how do you think the performance would be with a Yamaha trp?


I've never been in a boat rigged with a TRP, but from what I've heard and read about the TRP's,.... you better get a Hot Foot installed so you can hold on to the steering wheel with both hands when you come out of the hole at full throttle.

Too bad they don't make them anymore, anyone know why??


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## Andrew Mox (Dec 20, 2007)

Team Castaway said:


> Thanks. I'm not responding to anymore of this guys D.A. comments. I've done enough so far and I'm not stooping to his level any longer. I'm done with it.


I don't personally know any of you guys, but you are jumping all over "flattop." The point he trying to prove is you two steal threads all the time. If a guy comes on this forum, and ask a question you and many other just ramble off about whatever product your pimping this week. Do us all favor answer questions that pertain to your sponsors. That is what they expect of you guys you are professionals. This forum was started for people to educate themselves; it is not a billboard for you. Get out push your products. I guarantee that is expected of you, but do it at trade shows, tournaments, or at the boat ramp. It is a waste of everyone's time on this website including your own.


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## hotfoot (Mar 22, 2008)

Shoal Time said:


> I've never been in a boat rigged with a TRP, but from what I've heard and read about the TRP's,.... you better get a Hot Foot installed so you can hold on to the steering wheel with both hands when you come out of the hole at full throttle.
> 
> Too bad they don't make them anymore, anyone know why??


 I don't know why either ,but I am glad I got one of the last. Now to figure what to put it on.....


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## kempker1409 (Feb 26, 2006)

Andrew Mox said:


> I don't personally know any of you guys, but you are jumping all over "flattop." The point he trying to prove is you two steal threads all the time. If a guy comes on this forum, and ask a question you and many other just ramble off about whatever product your pimping this week. Do us all favor answer questions that pertain to your sponsors. That is what they expect of you guys you are professionals. This forum was started for people to educate themselves; it is not a billboard for you. Get out push your products. I guarantee that is expected of you, but do it at trade shows, tournaments, or at the boat ramp. It is a waste of everyone's time on this website including your own.


Then he should go try and prove his point on another thread and not hijack this one. The two guys were trying to help the original poster out. They both had experience with the boats in question. How is that stealing a thread???

Brian


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## flattop (Mar 25, 2008)

kempker1409 said:


> Then he should go try and prove his point on another thread and not hijack this one. The two guys were trying to help the original poster out. They both had experience with the boats in question. How is that stealing a thread???
> 
> Brian


Exactly. Shoalwater boats have worked for me for 10+ years, sharing my experience with them. I have been on or owned every model they make, so I speak from experience.


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## bk005 (Feb 23, 2005)

Shoal Time said:


> I've never been in a boat rigged with a TRP, but from what I've heard and read about the TRP's,.... you better get a Hot Foot installed so you can hold on to the steering wheel with both hands when you come out of the hole at full throttle.
> 
> Too bad they don't make them anymore, anyone know why??


I think when they opened up the HP brackets for the bass guys, it fell off in that scene, and the saltwater market was not enough to keep it going. Shame.

I loved mine, should have kept it, or atleast the lower unit.


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## hardcore (May 31, 2005)

i think both the shoalwater and the ultracats are gonna ride exactly same since its the same hull. Now u have to decide who has the best warranty and customer service and price.


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## bill (May 21, 2004)

Why did it take 8 pages before this got reported?


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## Canuck (Dec 14, 2004)

I own a Shoalwater 21 Cat and have been very pleased with it. After working with Shoalwater and making a few custom requests they took care of me and delivered as requested. Additionally, they welcome you in to the shop and are available at your convenience and throw in a nice 7 year warranty and a no hassle Etec to boot. Steve and Gene get my thumbs up!


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## bill (May 21, 2004)

Team Castaway said:


> OH MY GOD! LOL! This is ridiculous.
> 
> * You know, to hell with this. Apparently Mont, nor any of the administrators on this site want to do anything about total cowards that jump on this site and start stuff right off the bat and then hide behind an alias.*
> 
> ...


Comment is out of line. Did you report the thread?


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## irbjd (Aug 11, 2005)

Canuck said:


> I own a Shoalwater 21 Cat and have been very pleased with it. After working with Shoalwater and making a few custom requests they took care of me and delivered as requested. Additionally, they welcome you in to the shop and are available at your convenience and throw in a nice 7 year warranty and a no hassle Etec to boot. Steve and Gene get my thumbs up!


Hard to tell from the pictures, but does the crossbar from the rod holders continue into the frame for the cooler holder? If so, that's a pretty cool design.


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## LBS (Sep 2, 2004)

Canuck, that's some nice aluminum work. I really like how the grab rail comes all the way down the console...makes good handles. Who did the work?


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## Castaway Rods (Aug 15, 2005)

Just saw what they were talking about on the aluminum. That is as fine as China wine! I'm sure that will be copied on other boats for sure. I never noticed it before. Very nice!


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## Shoal Time (Sep 4, 2007)

hardcore said:


> i think both the shoalwater and the ultracats are gonna ride exactly same since its the same hull. Now u have to decide who has the best warranty and customer service and price.





bill said:


> Why did it take 8 pages before this got reported?


My thoughts exactly, can you imagine what FLATSDADDY is thinking after he reads all the bickering and other BS on this thread?

Hey FLATSDADDY if you are going to be near Port O'Connor the weekend of April 4-6 and you wanna test ride, PM me and we'll hook up.

Ross


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## bslittle79 (May 24, 2004)

*Aluminum work*



LBS said:


> Canuck, that's some nice aluminum work. I really like how the grab rail comes all the way down the console...makes good handles. Who did the work?


That rail by the cooler is nice, but it's knee high and my clumsy butt put a good bruse on a knee coming around the cooler on day. Ofcoarse we were on a school of redfish so I quickly forgot about it.

I haven't spent one minute in an UltraCat and only a few short hours in Canuck's Shoalwater(should have a few hundred hours in the upcoming months). The one thing I really like about the boat is you don't have to hammer down on the 200 Etec's throttle to get it up on plane. Once the motor hits about 4200 rpms, it jumps on plane. I'd recommend getting the trim tabs and hydraulic jackplate. Once you ride in a boat with trim tabs you can't do without them. Especially if your fishing friends weight as much as mine do. You can really balance out the ride and improve performance. IMO, the raised console is a must, especially where you live and fish.

Get a good cupped prop and forget about a hydrafoil.

I'd like to see a tape measure pulled on both boats to see if there is a length and width difference.


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## webb (May 9, 2006)

*19' cat from Shoalwater*

Anyone know anythign abotu the new 19 foor cat from Shoalwater. Relatively new but I sure there are some opinions within this group...


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## Priority1 (Aug 21, 2005)

*19' cat from Shoalwater*

The pictures of the ones I've seen show the boat pretty low in the water and the floor doesn't appear to be above the waterline. I am curious as to whether or not the floor gets wet if you don't put the floor drain plugs in. I've fished out of my neighbors 21 cat on many occasions and his floor stays wet unless you put the plugs in. Maybe someone that owns one comment on this ?


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## Ultra Cat 1 (May 21, 2006)

*not the same*



hardcore said:


> i think both the shoalwater and the ultracats are gonna ride exactly same since its the same hull. Now u have to decide who has the best warranty and customer service and price.


 The hull designs are different. The Ultra Cat has a little dead rise (its not a flat bottom with a tunnel) and the 20' and 22' are 6" wider on the hull bottom than the Shoal Cat. A better comparison would be to compare the 21 Shoal Cat (20'8") to the 20 Ultra Cat (20'5"), as there is only 3" difference in length, where as the 22 Ultra Cat is @ 2' longer than the Shoal Cat. I can arrange for a test in one of our boats. I know that the differences in the hull will be very noticable in the performance of the boats.


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## Capt Scott Hataway (Feb 17, 2005)

*Boat*

I don't have a shoal water cat on anyother cat hull boat and I am not trying to get you to go either way. I have several friends that run the shoalwater it is pretty smooth in chop and runs skinny and gets up skinny, but you better bring your rain gear because they are wet I have been on 3 diff. ones and they are all wet. I have no experience with the ultra cat. Shoal water does provided good customer service and Gene and Steve are good guys. Best advice is take a couple of rides in diff conditions in both boats and make your dec. I run a majek redfish line with a trp so I am not trying to push on way or the other. If you want a used boat my current majek is for sale. sorry had to push it a little.

Scott


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## Canuck (Dec 14, 2004)

LBS said:


> Canuck, that's some nice aluminum work. I really like how the grab rail comes all the way down the console...makes good handles. Who did the work?


Thanks! I'd love to take credit for it all but I told Gene Boerm (Shoalwater) what I was hoping for and he created it. You should see some of the aluminum work they have done. In fact, they had a 21 Cat tower boat at the Houston boat show that was insane. I'm no aluminum pro by any means but they have the noggin to create it!

*Brian-* what exactly are you implying about your fishing buddies weight? "Remember my size 9......"


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## fishin shallow (Jul 31, 2005)

Seems like the guy that was stirring the pot got banned so maybe flatsdaddy can get the info he was looking for.


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## stew1tx (Oct 15, 2004)

Yea, u people read too much into a post, JD usualy pushes his products, just like he should, but always throws in his reasons for why, and usualy always throws in test them for yourself and decide and ALWAYS offers to give test rides. That being said, I would suggest you get a list of critera that your boat must satisfy, and this is going to be exactly like I always suggest. Take those requirements and jot them down on paper with the most important at the top and work down as they get less important. Then ride on each and rank each critereon 1-10 and then ride again on the first boat you rode on after you have ridden on the rest so you have something to compare it too. 

The numbers will not lie and they will suggest the right boat for you. For me, the Tran cat worked the best. I rigged it with a 200 VMAX HPDI. Compared to a shoalwater with an ETEC in 200 hp, the tran is a little faster and uses a little less fuel. That is from testing head to head. THAT BEING SAID, My family has owned over 20 years worth of Shoalwaters starting with one of the original 20L's made. They are wonderful boats, and like someone posted in error, the shoalwater cat is not a flatbottom as it is traditionally defined. It is flat in the back, but the front is basically the same, they all came from a Shallow Sport design at one point to some degree. I rode in them all, and my list pointed me this way. My uncle has a shoalwater simply because that is the shallow water boat Portland Marine sells and he is loyal there for service that is second to NONE, they have proved that to me time and time again. That being said it is a great boat and I do not care what anyone says, wood in a boat can last. We sold a laguna that was well over 10 years old, think it was 15, and it was as structurally sound as the day we pulled it off the showroom floor. Wood boats I would not worry about are Shoalwater, Majek and Shallow Sport, and have said for years that the Shoalwater and Majek were some of the best built boats in existence, based on weight.

They all float about the same 7-8", they will all get up about 1" less than what they float in if propped right, they will all run in about 3" and shallower for shorter periods of time especially if mud on the bottom, they are all fast by traditional standards, and they all are more efficient than a conventional hull whether a v or flat bottom. Each has a little specialty. For reference, I ran 49.8 Wednesday with 4 adults, big adults, roughly 1000 lbs worth (220, 245, 280, and 250) almost full of fuel (50+ gallons) about 100 lbs in tackle, trolling motor, batteries (3), and an 18p Power Tech OFS. I have seen a solid 57 on my gps in that boat with it touching 58 briefly a couple of times. I have a BIG elevated console too. I will have my new Merc put on after the CC tournament.

Again, I would really suggest you talk to Gene and go for a ride, especially on his new 19, and I would also suggest you ride in the Tran Cat. If your thinking you need a boat that drafts more than 10" your in a whole different category and I would not suggest any of these boats. As good a job as mine is in rough water, ran 45+ both quartering into the wind and down wind on Tuesday and Wednesday and everyone should know how hard the wind was blowing. As you get more familiar with running your boat you will figure out how to maximize speed and smoothness. With a strong quartering wind I will tell you that there is NO boat out there that will keep you dry 100% of the time unless it has a wheel house on it, pathfinders, rangers, fountains, grady whites and anything else included. 

The problem with public posts is people will always read things into them, so best carried out via PM. Feel free to ask me any questions, and if you call Donny, Frank, Tommy or TV Tran, tell them I sent ya. Not because I get anything for it but because I tell him I send business his way all the time and he doesn't believe me hehehe.


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## FLATSDADDY (Mar 25, 2008)

*Thanks a bunch for the input*

Thanks for the input folks. The deal is done!! I demoed both the Ultracat and the Shoalwater. The Ultracat was a bit faster and shallower than the Shoalwater. The fit and finish of the Shoalwater was terrific. Both crafts ride very nice and dry. It was a windy afternoon when I demoed the Shoalwater and there was about a 2 feet chop and managed to stay very dry. The boats accelerate and run like flat or V-hulled crafts 4 - 5 feet their junior. The boat I got was rigged pretty simple with a 150 E-tech, jack plate, 3 blade cupped prop, trim tabs, and the basic non raised shoalwater console. I plan on adding a powerpole. Other than that I just plan on doing some fine tunning the prop, trim, jack plate for good performance and ride dynamics.


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## fishin shallow (Jul 31, 2005)

Good for you...be sure to post pics when you are done.


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## Castaway Rods (Aug 15, 2005)

Congrats. You could not have made a wrong decision with the choices you gave yourself. Now, go out and catch you a fish and be sure and wipe that fish slime from one end to the other to give that boat some good luck for all future trips.

Can't wait to fish out of my new boat tomorrow and wipe some fish slime all over it as well. Again, congrats and be sure and post up some pictures.

Best Regards,
Capt. Jimmie Dooms


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## fishin shallow (Jul 31, 2005)

How about some pics of your new boat Jimmie?


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## o_brother (Jul 26, 2007)

Post pics. asap...... and have fun....

Mike


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## Shoal Time (Sep 4, 2007)

FLATSDADDY said:


> Thanks for the input folks. The deal is done!! I demoed both the Ultracat and the Shoalwater. The Ultracat was a bit faster and shallower than the Shoalwater. The fit and finish of the Shoalwater was terrific. Both crafts ride very nice and dry. It was a windy afternoon when I demoed the Shoalwater and there was about a 2 feet chop and managed to stay very dry. The boats accelerate and run like flat or V-hulled crafts 4 - 5 feet their junior. The boat I got was rigged pretty simple with a 150 E-tech, jack plate, 3 blade cupped prop, trim tabs, and the basic non raised shoalwater console. I plan on adding a powerpole. Other than that I just plan on doing some fine tunning the prop, trim, jack plate for good performance and ride dynamics.


CONGRATS!

FLATSDADDY, just sent you a PM


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## rsparker67 (Mar 30, 2008)

Nice choice Flatsdaddy! You couldn't have gone wrong with either one, but since I have a Shoalwater I think you'll love it!


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## Melon (Jun 1, 2004)

Nice looking ride rsparker.


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## FLATSDADDY (Mar 25, 2008)

Nice pic of your rig rsparker. To think mine is just like it gives me a hard on. LOL Will definetely post some pics soon. Thanks for the offer Shoal time. What is a good time to call.


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## Castaway Rods (Aug 15, 2005)

fishin shallow said:


> How about some pics of your new boat Jimmie?


I will. Been too busy on the water since it got here to think about the pictures. I'll post up the pictures on another thread, as to not high jack his or get it off course.

By the way.... nice boat. My neighbor just bought Gary and Shelly Gray's tournament boat, a 21' Shoalwater w/raised deck, all the goodies, and an ETEC 250. Very nice boat.


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## Shallow Sport68 (Oct 14, 2008)

Iknow this is an old post,but what ever happened to the Shoalwater fast boat?


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## railbird (Jan 2, 2009)

I can honestly tell you that I have been in lots of boats, and there is absolutely no Boat that runs shallower than a Majek 21RFL. If you are going to fish the LLM it will last longer and work better than any other boat out there............ Wood in the hull is a plus for the life of the boat. If you are going to flats fish in deep south texas, It is your best choice.
chuck


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## FXSTB (Apr 23, 2008)

Ditto Railbird! I've ridden in air boats that don't dare venture where you routinely run!h:


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## superproboat (Apr 3, 2008)

Have you ck out the scat cat at proboatcustoms.co give me a call for more info 830-596-7601 thanks


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