# Question About A New Gun



## The1ThatGotAway (Jun 24, 2009)

I bought a "black" gun at the Pasadena gun show last weekend. Took it to the range on Sunday afternoon and... BAM!!!!! it jamed on the second shot. Crushed the spent shell and jammed it into the back of the unspent round. No biggie, I field stripped it right there and cleaned it. Put it back together and BAMMM!!!!! same thing, this time the shell that was to be ejected was crushed into the the primer of the next round and it went off. This could have been a serious injury. 

I don't why I am even asking this but, when the receipt says "No Refunds"... shouldn't that mean on normally working items. 

I could go through the trouble of dealing with the manufacturer but I thought the salesman would be happy to exchange it for an even more expensive gun... he wasn't.

I guess at this point I'm just venting, seems kind of shady to be selling things that are broke out of the box and not be willing to exchange them.


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## Paul Marx (Nov 13, 2009)

That ammo looks old. Are they hand loads ? If they are they may not be hot enouhg to cycle properly . I wouldn't fire another round till the manufacture or salesman does something . Was it from a shop that had a booth ? I'd like to know who it was as I'd hate to see somebody get hurt.


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## stdreb27 (Aug 15, 2011)

Usually you gotta rectify that with the manufacturer, assuming its new.


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## JFolm (Apr 22, 2012)

Manufacturer should resolve that no problem. Sounds serious


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## wolffman73 (Nov 30, 2011)

What type of rifle and magazine? Maybe we can help.


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## Bustin Chops (Feb 3, 2008)

Are you positive you are using the right ammo? I have seen guns that have blown up from someone accidentally using the wrong ammo.


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## Gottagofishin (Dec 17, 2005)

Who is the manufacturer? Assuming it is new they should take care of it. If it is used and you bought it as-is... Caveat emptor, but you may have some recourse if they knowingly sold you a defective weapon without disclosing the defect.

I wouldn't shoot it anymore though. You're lucky. Also, from what you describe I'd be worried the firing mechanism was damaged in that last incident, if it wasn't damaged beforehand.


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## coachlaw (Oct 26, 2005)

Sounds to me like either the extractor is not working or the chamber is not smooth for some reason. Just my thought.


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## 6.5 shooter dude (Jan 8, 2008)

Gun shows are where a lot of people dump guns that don't shoot well. First thing I would do is change ammo and see what it does.


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## wolffman73 (Nov 30, 2011)

Jay Baker said:


> Gun shows are where a lot of people dump guns that don't shoot well. First thing I would do is change ammo and see what it does.


Don't do that. You may have bigger problems and really screw something up.


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## Cool Hand (Mar 24, 2010)

Jay Baker said:


> Gun shows are where a lot of people dump guns that don't shoot well. First thing I would do is change ammo and see what it does.


Thats what i was thinking.


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## sleepersilverado (Jun 27, 2011)

Is that surpluss ammo? 
Might be a gas issue.


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## kweber (Sep 20, 2005)

take it to a pro before shooting it again!!!!


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## Texhntr1022 (Jul 27, 2009)

Contact manufacturer. I had a similar issue with dpms. Sent it back and they polished the chamber/ swapped extractors and now it works fine. Typically you pay shipping there and they repair/return for free.


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## snapperlicious (Aug 11, 2009)

Could be dirty, have you oiled it up?


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## RogerB (Oct 11, 2005)

the unfired ammo does not look new - is it surplus military? just asking, some surplus military is older than I am. and that's pretty danged old


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## poolio (Dec 14, 2011)

I have some experience with "the black gun" and was at the same show. It looked to me like the dealers were capitalizing on the fear of a possible ban on assault weapons by bringing out their "not so good"(to put it nicely) assault weapons and charging astronomical amounts for them. It sounds like you got one of the choice pieces. I would take it to their shop and ask to talk to the boss. Phone calls and emails will not do the trick here. If they won't refund, perhaps they'll upgrade with better parts at a discounted rate. Good luck.

-Poo


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

coachlaw said:


> Sounds to me like either the extractor is not working or the chamber is not smooth for some reason. Just my thought.


It's extracting the brass, it's just not getting rid of it before the forward part of the cycle: I'd say the ejector may be jammed in the bolt, the ejector spring may have broken, or possibly there's some junk in the bolt face that is simply jamming the brass into the "cavity" on the bolt face so tight that the ejector can't compete.. I think there also may be a very good chance that the ejector roll pin broke and the ejector itself is sitting on the ground at the range somewhere..


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## coachlaw (Oct 26, 2005)

I agree. Whatever you do, do not shoot it if you had an out of battery fire. This needs to be taken to a pro. He may be able to fix it, or it may have to be sent to the manufacturer. In any case make sure you contact the seller. Give him a chance to make it right.


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## coogerpop (Sep 3, 2009)

If the seller won't make it right for you,at least post his name and address up here so those of us that make these shows regularly won't deal with him...you weren't asking for a refund,just a properly functioning weapon.....which is what you thought you were buying...it was represented to you as a correctly functioning gun and that would be a good basis for sueing them if necessary.


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## boltmaster (Aug 16, 2011)

coogerpop said:


> If the seller won't make it right for you,at least post his name and address up here so those of us that make these shows regularly won't deal with him...you weren't asking for a refund,just a properly functioning weapon.....which is what you thought you were buying...it was represented to you as a correctly functioning gun and that would be a good basis for sueing them if necessary.


i would like to know who the dealer is as well but IMO it would be best to check with the MODS on that before you post up his info on this board to keep from getting the whole thread deleted for infractions. just saying


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## The1ThatGotAway (Jun 24, 2009)

Thanks for all of the responses guys. I am going to deal with the manufacturer(most likely). It seems the best way to get this gun working or replaced. I am not going to flame the owner on here... yet. He will be at the show this weekend and is willing to take a look and see if there is something that is noticably wrong with it.

To answer a couple of concerns, it is not surplus ammo, The ammo looks "dirty" because the round went off while the bolt was open. I will not shoot it again until it has been fixed by someone other than me. I am pretty handy at most things and do not feel like adding gunsmith to the list.


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## Highflier (Jun 22, 2006)

Could you share who the mfg is and model?


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## FearNoFish (May 22, 2005)

What you had there was an "out of battery fire", very dangerous and many have lost eyes during these mishaps. That's why you always wear shooting glasses! It could be a headspace issue, the "barrel nut" at the base of the AR barrel is what sets the headspace and there are specefic torque specs than need to be followed along with alignment of the gas tube; its pretty hard to screw up but can be done. It is likely just an extractor problem, a chamber that was cut improperly or gummed up, or a combination of all of the above. 

Very glad that you or the people shooting next to you were not injured, out of battery fires are more common on rimfire autoloaders but can happen in any semi-auto rifle and pistol, many times destroying the receiver and causing severe damage to the face or hand of the shooter. Whatever is wrong is will not be that difficult or expensive fix by a qualified AR armorer; not expensive compared to what you paid for it at that gunshow for sure.


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## sea ray (Mar 15, 2006)

coogerpop said:


> If the seller won't make it right for you,at least post his name and address up here so those of us that make these shows regularly won't deal with him...you weren't asking for a refund,just a properly functioning weapon.....which is what you thought you were buying...it was represented to you as a correctly functioning gun and that would be a good basis for sueing them if necessary.


X2 also contact the gun show organizer, they may have an interest in the safety and quality of the items at their shows even if the dealer does not.


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## Fishdog (Jun 22, 2004)

I agree that I would contact the gun seller and talk with him about the issue. But we can't really help you without more details regarding the gun, ammo and magazine. For example, it is well known that full 30 rd mags can jam the actions with the first 2 or 3 rounds fired. There is just too much spring pressure in fully loaded mags for some black guns to handle reliably. That is why a lot of shooters don't load more than 28 rds in their mags. (That, plus it's a lot easier seating fresh mags during a speed reload.) If you were shooting with a full mag with your first few rounds, I would clean and oil the chamber, action including bolt, and barrel. Then reload your 30 rd mag with only about 10 or so rounds of FMJ .223 (not 5.56). Test fire the rifle on bags and be sure to wear good protective gear including gloves. Keep you head well back and to the side opposite the extractor and pull off a round. If it keeps jamming, take the gun to a gunsmith.


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## Won Hunglo (Apr 24, 2007)

Send it back to black gun inc.


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## aggieredfish (Mar 3, 2011)

Well i will be the first to venture a guess as to the rifle type. I am guessing this was an HK or some type of HK clone. 

Based that on the distinct black lines down the fired cases. HK has been know to cut gas grooves in the chambers of their rifles to help with sticky extraction. It beats the brass all to hell and leaves those nice little back lines down the case. 

Just a guess so don't be to harsh. I still love HK rifles regardless.


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## ST.SIMONS (Jan 27, 2010)

I gotta say that the ammo you are using looks old as hell and I am not talking about the mangled one. I have heard of brand new dpms,del-ton and rock river having this problem. I will also say your issue has nothing to do with lube. What ammo is that? Is your platform a multi or just .223? Is that reloads that you bought from the same guy at the show? 5.56 ammo is scarce and so is .223. What grain loads are they? JUst remember the almighty dollar and lack of demand brings out some shady characters with some shady product. Is the gun new or used? I f you give me some more info the uppers on AR platforms are easy to rebuild and clean up just need more info. THe lowers are a little more work but in this case it is almost never a lower issue.


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## ST.SIMONS (Jan 27, 2010)

Have you gotten an answer yet?


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## SmithEC (Jul 31, 2009)

I'm going to guess that you bought a Century C93.

I hate to do it to you, but I don't think you're going to get satisfaction anywhere.

Least of all, from the manufacturer.


.


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## The1ThatGotAway (Jun 24, 2009)

SmithEC said:


> I'm going to guess that you bought a Century C93.
> 
> I hate to do it to you, but I don't think you're going to get satisfaction anywhere.
> 
> ...


And you would be correct. I have 4 AR's and 2 Ak's and wanted to add another high capacity gun to the safe. Since prices went up by double on AR's I went with this gun for $650.

No help from Century Arms or Talco Arms(the dealer I bought it from). So thanks to YouTube, I think the gun is ready to go back to the range. It has a .2 head space now, and is working properly on the bench. I just have to go fire it and find out if I got it right.

Also, this site was helpful. Those videos are pretty good info.

http://www.militaryfirearm.com/Foru...er-Assembly-Disassembly-Videos-Bolt-Gap-Video


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## Bigj (Jul 22, 2007)

Take it to Gunsmith get it done right before you shoot yourself and thwen it will blamed on the gun.


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## Bassman5119 (Feb 26, 2008)

Me and a buddy might be going to the Texas City Range tomorrow, depends on how much rain we get. Come on out and lets shoot it. I'm bringing my black beauty too.


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## alvinslash (Jan 14, 2012)

not all c93 are bad mine has more than a 1000rds down the pipe not one hickup but i went over the headspace and the gun first


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## SmithEC (Jul 31, 2009)

I figured you got raped for about $850. You did okay, I suppose.

alvinslash is right. They are not all bad. The trick is to find a good one.

There is certainly a lot of help in the enthusiast community. There is a video for just about everything, as you pretty much point out.

Bolt gap is typically the problem with a Century. If you think you have it fixed, just shoot it. You don't need a gunsmith to tell you anything.

Not everything that works in my Vectors or in the HK rifles will work in that Century. The Century is not built exactly to specs. An example would be the MKE magazine. The Century mag catch is not exactly right, therefore that mag almost always won't work for you.

Someone mentioned the chamber fluting earlier in this thread. I'll give you an off the wall piece of advice since you mention you own an AR or two. Do not try to clean the chamber of that C93 with your AR chamber brush. That fluting will grab the bristles and you'll play hell pulling it out.

I really hope it all works out for you.

.


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## Lezz Go (Jun 27, 2006)

I would take it to Tom Ashley in Manvel/Pearland. I've seen his work on AK's and ARs. He's one heck of a gunsmith. Top knotch and fair. *281-410-1421*.


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## The1ThatGotAway (Jun 24, 2009)

Bassman5119 said:


> Me and a buddy might be going to the Texas City Range tomorrow, depends on how much rain we get. Come on out and lets shoot it. I'm bringing my black beauty too.


I would like to go but I am 6 12's right now. The only day off I have off is Sunday. I do appreciate the offer though.


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## The1ThatGotAway (Jun 24, 2009)

I would like to thank everyone for their input and advice. I figure one round at a time at first to see if the spent casing is going to leave the gun. If it works I will load the magazine with 10 and see how that works. If not, It will most likely end up with Tom Ashley. It's really not rocket science, just a few pieces of metal and a spring. But, if it takes a pro to fix it then so be it. I will take it out and shoot tomorrow and see how it goes.


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## Fishin' Texas Aggie 05 (May 27, 2012)

Wear lots of protecton


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## The1ThatGotAway (Jun 24, 2009)

Ok, took the gun out today and tried two types of ammo. It still does the same thing, so I guess it's off to a gunsmith. It may just end up as an expensive wall piece in the mancave.


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