# CHL guns



## Spots and Dots (May 23, 2004)

So I was shopping today and the gun guy told me a 1911 is perhaps the safest carry gun. For the life of me I can recall why. Any input from this crowd?

I'm considering a Glock m23 .40. It seemed to "fit" my hand best and felt good.

Also considering a Bodyguard in .380 for the wife.


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## Profish00 (May 21, 2004)

.380 for any carry, anything bigger is just that.


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

I carry a pocket pistol S&W .38 hammer less. Sweet and easily fits in a front pocket. I also carry a Springfield HD .40 in an infidel iwb holster,mostly with a jacket or shirt hanging out.


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## Spots and Dots (May 23, 2004)

Why is the 1911 the "safest" carry arm?


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## Bigj (Jul 22, 2007)

all the safetys it has


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## SV_DuckBuster (Sep 18, 2007)

Spots and Dots said:


> Why is the 1911 the "safest" carry arm?


Matter of opinion. Some will say because unlike a Glock, it has a true safety.

IMO, the right holster and an educated/trained person is the safest carry option... not the type of gun.

Keep your booger hook off the bang button!  
(FWIW, I carry a Glock 27 in a Crossbreed Supertuck)


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## artys_only (Mar 29, 2005)

*Glock all the way !*

Look at a model 26 9mm or a model 27 40 cal a lot easier to conceal and weight is not bad . Buy a good holster and belt to carry . :dance:


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## devil1824 (Sep 4, 2010)

I carry a Springfield XD .40 sub compact everyday. I use a inside the waistband holster and feel very safe since it has the grip safety and trigger safety. I also like being able to tell just by touching the back and top and find out if it's loaded and cocked. Of coarse you should always know this. I have a 1911 that is thinner, but just haven't got comfortable enough to carry cocked and locked yet.


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## AvianQuest (Feb 7, 2006)

The 1911 has all kind of external safeties that have to be dealt with before it can fire.

A Glock has all kind of internal safeties that deactivate one by one as you pull the trigger. In a high tension situation with mere seconds to respond, you don't have to fumble for an external safety, etc...

Glock Safeties...

1. Trigger Safety: This is incorporated into the trigger in the form of a lever and in the untouched state it prevents the trigger from being moved rearward. If the weapon is dropped or if the trigger is subjected to an off center lateral pressure; the trigger will remain in the forward locked position. The trigger safety can only be released by pressure being applied directly to the lever on the trigger. This type of safety, in conjunction with the other two, offers a minimum fire ready time with a maximum level of safety for the user.

2. Firing pin safety: In the secured position, the spring loaded firing pun safety plunger projects into the firing pin channel. This prevents the firing pin from moving forward, until the trigger is depressed.

3. Dropped gun Safety: The firing pin pushes the trigger bar onto the safety ramp of the trigger mechanism housing under the power of the firing pinspring. This action places the left side extension of the trigger bar cruciform (the gun oriented with the muzzle down range) on the trigger mechanism housing ramp until the trigger is fully depressed. This safety prevents the trigger bar from releasing the firing pin without the trigger being depressed. If the trigger bar does not drop, the firing pin is not released.


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## red34 (Jun 2, 2004)

I like a single stack 9mm. I bought a Taurus 709 Slim, but wish I would have saved up for the Sig P225

9mm packs more punch than the 380 and isn't any bigger. I like how it carries over the double stack Glock, M&P, and XD offerings

I say the best gun for carry is what you'll actually carry, practice with often, and what you'll trust your life to.


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## ATX 4x4 (Jun 25, 2011)

SV_DuckBuster said:


> Matter of opinion. Some will say because unlike a Glock, it has a true safety.
> 
> IMO, the right holster and an educated/trained person is the safest carry option... not the type of gun.
> 
> ...


Well said. I love Glocks. For the record, Kel Tec PF-9 is what I carry.


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## Capt Scott Reeh (Jan 21, 2006)

Profish00 said:


> .380 for any carry, anything bigger is just that.


Keep believeing that.......a mouse gun is just that...a mouse gun! Hit the wrong person w/ a mouse gun and you just might not like the outcome when he make you eat it !


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## Johnny V E (May 26, 2010)

Glock Safeties...

1. Trigger Safety: This is incorporated into the trigger in the form of a lever and in the untouched state it prevents the trigger from being moved rearward. If the weapon is dropped or if the trigger is subjected to an off center lateral pressure; the trigger will remain in the forward locked position. The trigger safety can only be released by pressure being applied directly to the lever on the trigger. This type of safety, in conjunction with the other two, offers a minimum fire ready time with a maximum level of safety for the user.

2. Firing pin safety: In the secured position, the spring loaded firing pun safety plunger projects into the firing pin channel. This prevents the firing pin from moving forward, until the trigger is depressed.

3. Dropped gun Safety: The firing pin pushes the trigger bar onto the safety ramp of the trigger mechanism housing under the power of the firing pinspring. This action places the left side extension of the trigger bar cruciform (the gun oriented with the muzzle down range) on the trigger mechanism housing ramp until the trigger is fully depressed. This safety prevents the trigger bar from releasing the firing pin without the trigger being depressed. If the trigger bar does not drop, the firing pin is not released.
Use the one which gives you 
the the quickest deployment. I usually carry either a 1911 in a .45 or my 9mm Glock 
4. I feel just as safe with one or the other.


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## Slightly Dangerous (May 21, 2004)

Scott is right but the big bores are very carry unfriendly, even the smallest of them. I don't much care for holsters so my little Colt Mustang .380 sits in my pants or shorts front pocket everywhere I go. Might not kill them but it sure will make a person stop and think about it long enough for me to go elsewhere.


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## Wolf6151 (Jun 13, 2005)

Spots and Dots said:


> So I was shopping today and the gun guy told me a 1911 is perhaps the safest carry gun. For the life of me I can recall why. Any input from this crowd?


I'd have walked away from that salesman quickly hoping that stupidity wasn't contagious. Any gun is only as safe as the person using it, and the best safety for any gun is between your ears.


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## Boomhauer75 (Jan 3, 2010)

G-23 for me & the wife.


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## Bird (May 10, 2005)

I was having this same discussion with a friend the other day and we were talking specifically about having to carry 'cocked and locked' with the hammer back. It doesn't bother me too much since I've been shooting 1911 style pistols for a long time but for him, he wasn't comfortable with the idea. That being said, I've carried full size big bore guns and I just don't like having all that weight on my belt nor having to dress for the carry. Consequently, I carry a Ruger LCP (.380) or a Ruger LC9 (9mm).


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

As Wolf6151 says X2


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## cgmorgan06 (Aug 30, 2008)

Kimber Ultra CDP in a crossbreed supertuck for me.


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## chingy (Jan 14, 2008)

*glock vs 1911*

i own both of them and it depends what you comfortable with. i gave the glock to my girlfriend which is in her closet with a extended clip just incase somebody try to breaking in. i carry the 1911 because it looks good and mean and hopefully it scare them off before i have to use it


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## kanga69 (Mar 17, 2011)

Glock 23 .40 in a shoulder holster when I wear a jacket and a Kahr 9mm in an ankle holster on the inside of my left leg when no jacket..


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## kanga69 (Mar 17, 2011)

One other thing. Being able to hit what your shooting is a crucial safe part of carrying a hand gun. The Kahr is one of the most accurate 9mm I have ever shot.


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## RogerB (Oct 11, 2005)

I don't care for glocks. There's nothing wrong with them, I just prefer the feel of the ruger LC9 that I just purchased. It's easy to conceal, will fit in your pants pocket, or in an inside the pants holster. it carrys 7 in the clip and one in the chamber. I compared it to every .380 on the market (including the ruger .380) tried them all as far as how they fit my had (large) and the comfort of carrying/concealing on. all the others, Kel-Tec, Kahr, etc. fet fine but the ruger just tripped my trigger more than the others, Sig has a new deepc carry concealed 9mm as well and it's a nice gun but again the Ruger just felt right in my hand.


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## Profish00 (May 21, 2004)

Capt Scott Reeh said:


> Keep believeing that.......a mouse gun is just that...a mouse gun! Hit the wrong person w/ a mouse gun and you just might not like the outcome when he make you eat it !


Been shot by one? They will kill you:biggrin: It aint a thump on the forehead. If a 300mag is what you need, carry one.

This aint movie making drama, it's protection with a smile.


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## Spots and Dots (May 23, 2004)

Profish00 said:


> Been shot by one? They will kill you:biggrin: It aint a thump on the forehead. If a 300mag is what you need, carry one.
> 
> This aint movie making drama, it's protection with a smile.


That's kinda what the guy said about .380 vs 9mm
The 9mm hits harder than a .380, but the .380 hits much harder than he does.


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## Fordzilla06 (Oct 14, 2010)

Read last months Armed Citizen in the American Rifleman magazine. This will explain to you why you do not want a .380, or .38 for your conceal carry gun. Almost every article was about a citizen armed with a .380, or .38, and only one managed to kill their attacker. The other six only managed to wound the attacker. The reason the 1911 would be the safest carry gun is because of all the safeties it has, plus it's a .45. When it goes bang, people die. Which is what you're looking for in a concealed carry gun. It's not for show, it's meant to kill. As for the manual safeties, some can be left off, and the gun is ready to go bang by simply gripping properly and letting her fly. Buy a compact version if you're worried about size and weight.


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## bigbarr (Mar 9, 2010)

I would like to try the Kimber Solo

http://www.kimberamerica.com/solo/solo-carry/solo-carry


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## BIG JIMMIE (May 21, 2004)

Fordzilla06 said:


> Read last months Armed Citizen in the American Rifleman magazine. This will explain to you why you do not want a .380, or .38 for your conceal carry gun. Almost every article was about a citizen armed with a .380, or .38, and only one managed to kill their attacker. The other six only managed to wound the attacker. The reason the 1911 would be the safest carry gun is because of all the safeties it has, plus it's a .45. When it goes bang, people die. Which is what you're looking for in a concealed carry gun. It's not for show, it's meant to kill. As for the manual safeties, some can be left off, and the gun is ready to go bang by simply gripping properly and letting her fly. Buy a compact version if you're worried about size and weight.


you tell the cops i was trying to stop the attacker , i did not want to kill him. even if you did. gun control is hitting what you aim at.


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## Capt Scott Reeh (Jan 21, 2006)

Spots and Dots said:


> That's kinda what the guy said about .380 vs 9mm
> The 9mm hits harder than a .380, but the .380 hits much harder than he does.


LOL....I still stand behind my statement.If one feels safe carrying a sub standard caliber, fine.I don't,and won't be caught w/out enough gun for whatever situation might arise.:biggrin:


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## Ex Boat Capt. Carp (Jul 19, 2011)

SA 9MM XD sub compact, and at home a SA 9MM XDM!! BANG BANG!!!!


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## tx7475 (Apr 12, 2011)

I personally say the biggest heaviest caliber you can handle safely , comfortably and accuratly . I want to put the biggest and most devastating hole in in someone that I can . Smaller calibers have no room for error . If you have to use it , it isnt going to be in a controlled inviroment , your adrenalin pumping and an attacker coming at you or even already on you . BIG nasty holes are better ...
A .380 is better than a sling shot , but if you can handle a bigger more devastating round safely, why wouldnt you ?
I carry a 1911 , my wife carries a sig 229 .40 caliber . And the only holsters we would dream of carring them in are Tucker Holster .. The Answer is the first IWB hybrid made and they can leather line the kydex to reduce finish wear . They are also tension and cant adjustable and are backed with suede so they are extremely comfortable . We love them ...And they are local . I'll see if a can dig up some pictures .


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

Biggest thing is what you're going to actually WANT to carry. A 1911 gets heavy and big quick... A .380 is probably the most unobtrusive option. I've carried a fullsize 1911 before, now I've got a few .380's to carry if that's all I can or want to carry: they're really easy to slip into a pocket, you can easily forget they're there, etc...: if you've actually got it, it's a heck of a lot more powerful and effective gun than the .45 you've got in the glove compartment in the parking lot.. When I was carrying that 1911, I really quite often found myself just leaving it behind just because it was too big, too heavy, etc.. That's just part of the trade off with any CC gun..
I've got a Glock 36 for "big" carry now: .45ACP in a package that's slimmer and, in my view, simply more concealable, than the 27's, 23's, 30's, etc...


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## RogerB (Oct 11, 2005)

Fordzilla06 said:


> Read last months Armed Citizen in the American Rifleman magazine. This will explain to you why you do not want a .380, or .38 for your conceal carry gun. Almost every article was about a citizen armed with a .380, or .38, and only one managed to kill their attacker. The other six only managed to wound the attacker. .


has nothing to do with the caliber - has everything to do with the shooter. I can drop you dead right there before you can touch me with a 22 pistol loaded with 22 long rifle. I can, because I know how. I have all the confidence I need with my 22 magnum and with my ruger 9mm loaded with hydroshocks - the only thing substandard about any caliber is the shooter. not the bullet.


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

RogerB said:


> has nothing to do with the caliber - has everything to do with the shooter. I can drop you dead right there before you can touch me with a 22 pistol loaded with 22 long rifle. I can, because I know how. I have all the confidence I need with my 22 magnum and with my ruger 9mm loaded with hydroshocks - the only thing substandard about any caliber is the shooter. not the bullet.


 The only thing the big calibers does is make bad shots count more... If you put it where it belongs to begin with, you can do it with good sized pellet gun..


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## stangfan93 (Aug 4, 2007)

Hey Spots and Dots, I carry a GLOCK 23 daily and have no problem. And I have dropped it and can attest to the drop safety feature in the gun.


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## Bird (May 10, 2005)

RogerB said:


> has nothing to do with the caliber - has everything to do with the shooter. I can drop you dead right there before you can touch me with a 22 pistol loaded with 22 long rifle. I can, because I know how. I have all the confidence I need with my 22 magnum and with my ruger 9mm loaded with hydroshocks - the only thing substandard about any caliber is the shooter. not the bullet.


This ^^^

Whatever you decide to carry, you need to go to the range and practice drawing from your concealed carry location on your body and of course shooting. As they told us in the Army, "train like you fight."


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## THE JAMMER (Aug 1, 2005)

I was a wholesaler for 6 years in the 90's, and please some of you out there don't take this wrong, however, the average gun store salesman might be a shooter, but he doesn't know **** about most guns.

Several have said that a hammerless 5-6 shooter wheel gun is probably the SAFEST. Another thing to remember is how complicated is the gun you have to "get into action." For instance for my wife's safety gun while I'm out of town, I don't want her having to rack a slide, push a safety off, etc. She has a taurus 85 with crimson trace laser. Just pick it up, hold the grip (which activates the laser) point the gun at the red dot, and pull the trigger 5 times. Her's has a hammer, so if she has time, and can think about it, she can certainly cock it and fire it more accurately single action, but realistically if she ever has to use it, it will be under five yards. Just pick it up and pull the trigger five times.

Some guns are so "safe" that they might be hard to put into action in the real world, if there has not been enough practice.


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## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

> The 1911 has all kind of external safeties that have to be dealt with before it can fire.


Not really. The thumb safety is the only one you have to disengage to fire a 1911, the grip safety takes care of itself when you grip the handgun.

I comfortably carry a Kimber Tactical Pro II .45 ACP in a Don Hume PCCH holster and really like the setup.

As has been said, training is the most important then comes handgun function and caliber. Revolvers are the best for women and for a lot of men as well due to how they function and their reliability. To have one jam is rare indeed but...it can happen.

On the subject of the .380...I shot a possum three times with a Walther PPK-S in .380, knocked him down with the first shot as it hit the left shoulder but he got up and kept doing the possum shuffle towards some brush. Next two rounds hit him behind the left shoulder and he kept on heading for the brush and then my friend shot him with a .22 magnum and he stopped. We skinned it because I wanted to see what was happening with the .380 HP bullets I was firing. All hit, but the .22 magnum made a mess and i couldn't tell what damage the .380 did inside but I traded the Walther a few days later since I didn't trust the round any longer.

A few years later and a friend has the same model Walther and shoots a pig in a trap behind the ear at about 5 feet with it and killed it stone cold dead. So oh well lol.

Thing is, that if God help me I should have to shoot someone I want a big hole and lots of blood loss as it is the blood loss that turns the lights off.

TH


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## mlp1024 (Aug 9, 2011)

.380 LCP works in anything I wear and no one ever knows it's there. With the logic of some CHL instructors out there we should all be carrying a dang bazooka around with us. Had one once berate me in front of the class for carrying a LCP. My response was well how come you can't find ammo and the LCP's you do sale are being sold with a box of ammo??? Carry what is comfortable and manageble to you.


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## mpope13 (Apr 27, 2007)

*chl*

Go read the 4 way review the guy just did on 2 glocks and the Xd and the XDM. My money is on the newer XDM .40 3.8 inch model. Went and looked at one the other day and wow what a nice piece for the price and gun you get. That is going to be my next investment.


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## stdreb27 (Aug 15, 2011)

RogerB said:


> has nothing to do with the caliber - has everything to do with the shooter. I can drop you dead right there before you can touch me with a 22 pistol loaded with 22 long rifle. I can, because I know how. I have all the confidence I need with my 22 magnum and with my ruger 9mm loaded with hydroshocks - the only thing substandard about any caliber is the shooter. not the bullet.


I can't find it right now, but to chime in. I read an article the other day, it was reviewing a study about "knockdown" power of a caliber, it was done for the US Army.

Anyway, they studied a whole bunch of different cases. And basically concluded, that unless their was a direct hit on the spinal cord or brain, no bullet is going to have the kinetic energy to physically knock someone down. It hits with the same force as a recoil, minus energy lost in flight. 
It also points out that in high stress situations, it was common for the individual who was shot, to not feel it right away, until the adrenalin ebbed from their system...
This was done in a study wondering if shot, would a person, be able to respond, with fire. They also noted even with a direct hit on a major blood bearing organ, heart, artery, the individual would not be incapacitated enough to not end the threat.

Basically It didn't matter if it was a .22 to a .45. What mattered was what you hit. You're not going to actually knock someone down with any bullet, unless you instantly paralyze him. It should be unexpected for the assailant to not feel the bullet in a high stress situation, and even a lethal shot will take a little while for the individual to die.


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## Spots and Dots (May 23, 2004)

mpope13 said:


> Go read the 4 way review the guy just did on 2 glocks and the Xd and the XDM. My money is on the newer XDM .40 3.8 inch model. Went and looked at one the other day and wow what a nice piece for the price and gun you get. That is going to be my next investment.


Where's the review?


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## troutslayer (Feb 7, 2006)

I guess I will chime in.......I carry 2 different 1911s.....on is an EAA Witness 9mm...the other is a Colt Gold Cup Trophy in .45 acp.......

Sounds like alot of us carry........
Sounds like alot of us are different in what we choose to carry

the point is that you get a license and carry on you person or at the very least carry in your vehicle
crimminals hate the fact that we might be carrying
so go get a gun and practice practice practice
then practice some more
caliber is not that important
Like Roger said......if I shoot you with a .17......you will change your mind about what you were doing before I shot you
even a pellet gun will deter an idiot if you could have multible shots
being proficient with your weapon is the most *criticle*
perfect example was my wife......at one time someone could have taken her gun away from her......i would not recomend it now.....lol
remember to practice......remember to run scenerios through your head....what ifs what fors whys
Takin a life for trying to bring me harm......would not bother me in the least.....but it might be expensive if its not cut and dry self defense
just go get you a gun and practice
remember the presence of a gun alone will deter most people

TS carry on


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## RogerB (Oct 11, 2005)

stdreb27 said:


> I can't find it right now, but to chime in. I read an article the other day, it was reviewing a study about "knockdown" power of a caliber, it was done for the US Army.
> 
> .


I think if you check, you'll find another study done for the US Army. here's a cut from wikipedia - while I don't much care for wikipedia - the information can be found elsewhere as well


> In response to problems encountered by American units fighting Moro guerrillas during the Philippine-American War, *the then-standard Colt M1892 revolver, in .38 Long Colt, was found to be unsuitable* for the rigors of jungle warfare, *particularly in terms of stopping power,* as the Moros had very high battle morale and frequently used drugs to inhibit the sensation of pain.[6] The U.S. Army briefly reverted to using the M1873 single-action revolver in .45 Colt caliber, which had been standard during the late 19th century; the heavier bullet was found to be more effective against charging tribesmen.[7] The problems with the .38 Long Colt led to the Army shipping new single action .45 Colt revolvers to the Philippines in 1902. It prompted the then-Chief of Ordnance, General William Crozier, to authorize further testing for a new service pistol.[7]


granted much has changed since the Army fought the Moros, including powders, velocity, stopping power. I know the Army didn't much care for the 9mm either but many of those guys will tell you that had everything to do with the ammunition (ball ammo) and not the gun. Same is true of the .45. A .45 caliber round ball will certainly do damage but a .45 hollow point will do more - same with the 9. Critical Defense rounds and Hydroshock are pretty potent. And again, that true of every caliber. The study about someone not stopping when hit critically? bogus - first hand experience tells me so.


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## CDHknives (Mar 17, 2012)

I have a Kahr and a Keltec for carry, each for different situations (pocket vs. IWB). I don't like 1911 size pistols for my 180 lb frame as they just don't hide well.

Crackheads aren't going to stop until their CNS is shut down. Bigger bullet==more blood loss all else being equal (and I know it isn't...) but you gotta be able to hit. Sooooo, carry and shoot the biggest you can handle for those 2-3 shots.

BUT, if it doesn't carry well, you will find yourself leaving it behind so you won't have it when you need it.

Soooo, carry the biggest round you will carry and put the bullet where it counts. That means something that will penetrate to the major blood vessels and cut a lot of them for rapid bleed out.

You might get lucky and fight off a sane person who runs at the first shot, but if we were counting on being lucky, would we carry at all???


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## stdreb27 (Aug 15, 2011)

RogerB said:


> I think if you check, you'll find another study done for the US Army. here's a cut from wikipedia - while I don't much care for wikipedia - the information can be found elsewhere as well
> 
> granted much has changed since the Army fought the Moros, including powders, velocity, stopping power. I know the Army didn't much care for the 9mm either but many of those guys will tell you that had everything to do with the ammunition (ball ammo) and not the gun. Same is true of the .45. A .45 caliber round ball will certainly do damage but a .45 hollow point will do more - same with the 9. Critical Defense rounds and Hydroshock are pretty potent. And again, that true of every caliber. The study about someone not stopping when hit critically? bogus - first hand experience tells me so.


Yeah, it was just an interesting article, personally, It is too dang hot to carry a .45 during the summer.


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## pg542 (Oct 9, 2006)

Capt Scott Reeh said:


> Keep believeing that.......a mouse gun is just that...a mouse gun! Hit the wrong person w/ a mouse gun and you just might not like the outcome when he make you eat it !


......theres more than one bullet in the mag. If I have to "eat it", it's going to be empty.


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## Poon Chaser (Aug 22, 2006)

troutslayer said:


> I guess I will chime in.......I carry 2 different 1911s.....on is an EAA Witness 9mm...the other is a Colt Gold Cup Trophy in .45 acp.......
> 
> Sounds like alot of us carry........
> Sounds like alot of us are different in what we choose to carry
> ...


Roger that!!!


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## Dgeddings (Sep 16, 2010)

My personal preference for carry is a G19 with night sites, I own a kimber 1911 also but I refuse to carry any gun that has external controls, its something that will rub and make it an uncomfortable carry, HK USP has the same issue, glocks & springfields have this in common with no external controls along with several other firearms but in my mind those are the best two options, not to mention that 1911's aren't really known for their reliability my kimber has more failure to feeds than any firearm I've ever owned.

Whatever you decide on make sure you spend some $ on a good holster, the crossbreed I have has treated me well and is comfortble, same goes with a good gun belt to support the weight and find a range that will allow you to practice draw from a holster and firing, or another good practice is just unload the gun and take the mags out then practice at home, make sure it's a good fit and you know exactly how much tension there is on the holster and how hard you have to pull.


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## boss11 (Nov 18, 2010)

I carry a Glock 19 on the waist filled with Hydrashocks with a backup mag full of Winchester PDX1 and I feel **** secure!


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## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

> I own a kimber 1911 also but I refuse to carry any gun that has external controls, its something that will rub and make it an uncomfortable carry


Buy a better holster and the above is a non-issue. Now your Kimber jamming more than any firearm you've ever owned, send it back and let them fix it. Two at the house and I can't remember one of them jamming with a few thousand rounds through each.

TH


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## devil1824 (Sep 4, 2010)

I've heard a lot of people talking about Kimbers jamming till you put atleast 500 rounds through it due to tight tolerances.


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## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

> I've heard a lot of people talking about Kimbers jamming till you put atleast 500 rounds through it due to tight tolerances.


I've heard that too but was just lucky to have not experienced it lol.

TH


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## vt_fish02 (Oct 16, 2009)

BIG JIMMIE said:


> you tell the cops i was trying to stop the attacker , i did not want to kill him. even if you did. gun control is hitting what you aim at.


its hard to get sued/charged for attempted murder when the attacker can't talk.


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## hookedonfishin (Jan 4, 2008)

*Concealed carry*

All of the discussions on pistol size always end up with the arguement on what caliber is the best and some like to justify the small calibers by saying its all in shot placement.
I carry a 45 so if I dont have the opportunity to get the perfect shot off I will do enough damage to the threat or slow it enough to do a follow up shot.
I also practice with my carry weapon on a regular basis so If I have to use it I can hit what Im shooting at.
If you want to carry on a daily basis you just have to dress for it and as far as the tiny pocket pistols they are probably fine up close but I wouldnt want to enter a gunfight with one.


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## w_r_ranch (Jan 14, 2005)

Daily carry is Springfield Armory Loaded Champion 1911.

I also agree with what hookedonfishin said.


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## BIG JIMMIE (May 21, 2004)

vt_fish02 said:


> its hard to get sued/charged for attempted murder when the attacker can't talk.


you still have to go through the investigation :work:


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

hookedonfishin said:


> All of the discussions on pistol size always end up with the arguement on what caliber is the best and some like to justify the small calibers by saying its all in shot placement.
> I carry a 45 so if I dont have the opportunity to get the perfect shot off I will do enough damage to the threat or slow it enough to do a follow up shot.
> I also practice with my carry weapon on a regular basis so If I have to use it I can hit what Im shooting at.
> If you want to carry on a daily basis you just have to dress for it and as far as the tiny pocket pistols they are probably fine up close but I wouldnt want to enter a gunfight with one.


First off, the very last option for me is to get in a gun fight. I am gonna be getting gone if at all possible. Second, the way I see it, the best way to be cleared of a shoot is for it to be good, as in CLOSE, less than 20'. That is my "personal space" outer limits as far as CHL is concerned to shoot an unarmed perp. If he is armed, all bets are off anyway and most mags won't hold enough rounds to end a gunfight at more than 20'. IMO, the best gun for carry is the one you will actually carry.


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## RogerB (Oct 11, 2005)

hookedonfishin said:


> All of the discussions on pistol size always end up with the arguement on what caliber is the best and some like to justify the small calibers by saying its all in shot placement.
> .


so shot placement isn't important? I suppose having a bigger caliber and wildly shooting in the direction of the attacker is better? look, i'm not trying trying to be sarcastic, nor justifying small caliber (and yes, I saw the comment about practicing on a regular basis)- I don't care what caliber you carry - practice, shot placement, this and more are important. caliber aside. one only has to listen to the news about gunfights on city streets where wounded combatants continued to fight. hell if I had my way I'd carry an M79 grenade launcher loaded with double ought buck but since I want to carry, and not be noticed, I carry a 9mm with appropriate ammunition and it's accurate - and so am I if the need be


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## Profish00 (May 21, 2004)

Right, a sling shot to the temple is better than a 1911 thru the neighbors window.


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## CDHknives (Mar 17, 2012)

The difference in '1 shot stops' between the major police calibers (9mm, 357Mag, 357Sig, 10mm, 40S&W, and 45ACP) is only a few %. Even 38spl and 380 ACP stop most attacks on the first solid hit.

This according to studies by either Fackler or Marshall and Sanow. Since they put a heckuva lot more research and thought into the subject than I ever will I'll not feel undergunned with my Cor-Bon loaded 380 in my pocket.

Personally I worry more about bad dogs than people. Most people stop on pain, dogs, not so much.


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

troutslayer said:


> I guess I will chime in.......I carry 2 different 1911s.....on is an EAA Witness 9mm...the other is a Colt Gold Cup Trophy in .45 acp.......


 I'm still trying to figure out how in any way, shape, or form, a EAA Witness is a 1911....


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## Dgeddings (Sep 16, 2010)

devil1824 said:


> I've heard a lot of people talking about Kimbers jamming till you put atleast 500 rounds through it due to tight tolerances.


same I've already talked to kimber and they said they wont even look at it until I get 500 rounds through it, currently at 300, with an injured right thumb it's on the back burner for now. I seem to have figured out that this thing really likes sub-sonic ammo anyway the 147 grain ammo feeds very well through it but I still don't like external controls for carry, it's a personal choice I like my glock a lot, it's not as accurate as the kimber but a 5" group at 25 yards vs a 2" group at 25 yards still gets the job done, also carries almost twice as many rounds in 1 mag


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## hookedonfishin (Jan 4, 2008)

So did you read the whole post ROGER B...is practicing with your weapon and being able to hit what your shooting enter into shot placement..give me a break...nobody here is talking about throwing up a wall of lead and hoping for the best..


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## RogerB (Oct 11, 2005)

I said I read the whole thing - did you read what I said? including the statement that the news reporrs are full of news about gunfights between combatants that continue even after being wounded. I would prefer to be comfortable knowing I can drop my attacker rather than be concerned with the caliber I'm using. If the caliber isn't sufficient - I'll upgrade - right now, I'm comfortable.


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## troutslayer (Feb 7, 2006)

dwilliams35 said:


> I'm still trying to figure out how in any way, shape, or form, a EAA Witness is a 1911....


Go buy ya one.......you might like it
http://www.tombstonetactical.com/catalog/eaa/1911-witness-pistol-9mm-4.5in-17rd-stainless/


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## troutslayer (Feb 7, 2006)

One can argue that the Witness is not a true 1911 .....its double stacked.....no grip safety.....but the original 1911 did not have one either.....for argument sake its more of a CZ 75 clone....but has the capability of interchangable uppers.....so call it what you will


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

troutslayer said:


> One can argue that the Witness is not a true 1911 .....its double stacked.....no grip safety.....but the original 1911 did not have one either.....for argument sake its more of a CZ 75 clone....but has the capability of interchangable uppers.....so call it what you will


 I've shot one before: they're in the pile of guns that just don't do it for me. Meh. Like a whole lot of other non-1911's, such as Sigs, most of your older Smith auto designs, and Berettas... I don't consider double-stack a disqualification: I've got several of those myself; the top end, and the theory, are still the same. I'd consider things like the double-action, frame enclosing the slide, etc. etc. etc. much more of disqualifying features.. I really don't see any similarity between the two besides which end the bullet comes out of.


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## troutslayer (Feb 7, 2006)

dwilliams35 said:


> I've shot one before: they're in the pile of guns that just don't do it for me. Meh. Like a whole lot of other non-1911's, such as Sigs, most of your older Smith auto designs, and Berettas... I don't consider double-stack a disqualification: I've got several of those myself; the top end, and the theory, are still the same. I'd consider things like the double-action, *frame enclosing the slide*, etc. etc. etc. much more of disqualifying features.. I really don't see any similarity between the two besides which end the bullet comes out of.


Even your disqualification for double action is w/out merit.....there are some 1911s that have this feature

and did you mean *slide emcompassing barrel*.....

heres a demo


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## troutslayer (Feb 7, 2006)

w


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

troutslayer said:


> Even your disqualification for double action is w/out merit.....there are some 1911s that have this feature
> 
> and did you mean *slide emcompassing barrel*.....
> 
> heres a demo


 The double action 1911's are just bastardizations of the original design, not a completely different gun like the EAA...

And no, I meant the slide running inside the rails, instead of outside like it should be..


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## troutslayer (Feb 7, 2006)

ok.....LOL


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## Chase4556 (Aug 26, 2008)

Ruger LCP in my back or front pocket. Back pocket works well because I carry my wallet in my left. Front pocket always works. And like everyone says, the best gun is one your comfortable with and will carry. When your gun isnt heavy at all and fits in your pocket... you carry it. I'm pretty sure that 95% of the people you encounter will change their intent as soon as they see a gun pointed at them, the other 5% will change their mind as soon as you pull the trigger and they feel the pain. It doesn't matter if its a .380 or a .45.

Obviously more stopping power comes with the latter, but I fully trust a .380 to save my life.


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## Stuart (May 21, 2004)

Chase4556 said:


> Ruger LCP in my back or front pocket. Back pocket works well because I carry my wallet in my left. Front pocket always works. And like everyone says, the best gun is one your comfortable with and will carry. When your gun isnt heavy at all and fits in your pocket... you carry it. I'm pretty sure that 95% of the people you encounter will change their intent as soon as they see a gun pointed at them, the other 5% will change their mind as soon as you pull the trigger and they feel the pain. It doesn't matter if its a .380 or a .45.
> 
> Obviously more stopping power comes with the latter, but I fully trust a .380 to save my life.


X2

Among other things I have, and can carry, is a full size 1911 and a G26. Up till now the G26 has been my carry piece. Last night I came home with a Ruger LCP 380. I can see this thing getting carried way more than I carried even my G26. It is truly a pocket pistol. I can have this thing in my pocket and have my hand on the gun and still not raise any suspicions. I can't do that with the G26, it's just too wide, plus it is simply too heavy (twice as heavy as the LCP) to carry "loose" in a pocket.

If one's plan (like mine was) is to lift a shirt up out of the way, grip and draw a weapon out of a IWB holster in a split second then I hope they are practicing that. How many times can you do it fast and succesfully out of ten times? It isn't easy and then couple that with the stress of the moment and it could make all the difference.


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