# Texas tarpon Catch & Release Proposal



## Lovett (Sep 20, 2005)

FYI: Captain Jim Leavelle shared this with me today, Friday, 26 January 2007.






I just wanted to give everyone in Texas that have an interest in Tarpon a heads up and let you know that yesterday at the Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission hearing I proposed that Tarpon in Texas be restricted to a catch and release only. The original proposal that went out on scoping across the state was an extension of what we did last year to increase the minimum length limit as a way of allowing new state records to be entered. Two things have happened since then. I was able to work with Joedy Gray here at TPWD to establish and recognize catch and release records, so we do have a means of recognizing new state records for these fish. Second, I was very gratified to hear great public support for this idea at our scoping meeting and that was encouraging. Our Commission liked the idea as well.



This proposal is just that, a proposal. I made it clear to our Commission when I discussed it that I did not feel that all those who might be interested in this had the opportunity to make comment on it - particularly along the upper coast. We held most of our scoping meetings along the lower coast because of the spotted seatrout issue in the Lower Laguna Madre. While I obviously support the idea because I proposed it I do want to make sure everyone is heard - we may learn something (and normally do) from the hearing process that would be so problematic to adopting catch release that we might need to make some modification, etc.



Please take advantage of the public hearing process (see our website for locations and times) to make your thoughts are known or let me know directly. I have a tough hide so let me have your best shot. Commission will vote on this April 5. Please help make sure that all interested parties see this or get notice of the proposal. Thank you



*Dr. Larry McKinney* 
*Director of **Coastal* *Fisheries* 
*Texas* *Parks** and Wildlife Department* 
*(512) 389-4636 voice* 
*(512) 389-4344 fax* 
*(512) 350-3922 cell*


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## Jake Reaves (Oct 1, 2004)

so what exactly is the proposal?? Increasing the minimum length that you can retain or making it catch and realease only?? Excuse my ignorance, I'm a little confused??


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## haparks (Apr 12, 2006)

i would just like to hook one-- so i can catch one--- so i can take its picture --so i can realease one---lol


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## Tarponchaser (May 25, 2005)

*proposed regs*

Jake,

It is very simple. Go to go to the Parks&Wildlife web-site..... on the upper line click on Get Involved...... click on Public Comments....click on Newsreleases about dropping the Lower Laguna Trout limit to five from ten.....scroll down past the trout proposal.... past the sheephead proposal .... past the Diamondback terrrapin proposal... and there you are.

Raising the minimum size limit on tarpon from 80 inches to 90. The 80-inch minimum was put in place in 2006 to allow for the possibility of a new state record fish to be landed. A 91-inch fish broke the old record in the fall of 2006. Based on the scoping comments, McKinney told commissioners there appears to be a significant amount of support for returning to a purely catch-and-release tarpon fishery. The proposal was modified by the commission to have a zero fish bag limit for tarpon.

It clearly states that they want to raise the minimum limit from 80" to 90" and have a zero fisn bag limit.

I think that it says that the porposal was modified to be catch & release only. Need an attorney' opinion... Scott?

TC


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## Scott (May 24, 2004)

I think the minimum length should be 84 inches. 90 inches is too high. Get a fat 84 inch fish and you could have a record. I think a $50 tag should be used but the tag idea is long since dead. I wanted them to make it $50 from the beginning instead of $100. If they had, they would have sold some tags - guaranteed. Tag issue aside - I think one fish per day 84 inches or more is fine. Last year, with the opening of the ability to retain fish, only two fish were killed in Texas. 80 inches is too small. A skinny 80 incher that weighed less than 150 pounds was killed last year - not acceptable. 84 to 85 is good enough. Anybody who targets tarpon, they know the formula... they can do the math and unless the fish is a record contender, the fish won't get killed. I think the incidental kill is very minimal and will not adversely effect the biomass. I think having a state record potential makes the fishery more viable and more $$ into tarpon fishing means more money for research and more interest in research. Small price to pay.


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## Tarponchaser (May 25, 2005)

Scott, 
Thank you. I asked for it and I got it. I don't disagree with your opinion. Now may I have your opinion as to what the proposal is? Catch & Release only. Right?

TC


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## Jake Reaves (Oct 1, 2004)

Scott said:


> I think the minimum length should be 84 inches. 90 inches is too high. Get a fat 84 inch fish and you could have a record. I think a $50 tag should be used but the tag idea is long since dead. I wanted them to make it $50 from the beginning instead of $100. If they had, they would have sold some tags - guaranteed. Tag issue aside - I think one fish per day 84 inches or more is fine. Last year, with the opening of the ability to retain fish, only two fish were killed in Texas. 80 inches is too small. A skinny 80 incher that weighed less than 150 pounds was killed last year - not acceptable. 84 to 85 is good enough. Anybody who targets tarpon, they know the formula... they can do the math and unless the fish is a record contender, the fish won't get killed. I think the incidental kill is very minimal and will not adversely effect the biomass. I think having a state record potential makes the fishery more viable and more $$ into tarpon fishing means more money for research and more interest in research. Small price to pay.


I agree with that...90 inches is too high...91" was the longest caught in Texas and a very long Tarpon in General...

Now that I re-read the original post I think he proposing that a catch-and-release record will be approved for a state record?


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## LanceR (May 21, 2004)

Tarponchaser - The proposal is for catch-and-release only though if approved, there would be a mechanism to still certify a new state record without killing the fish. The TPW Commission is looking for input (pro or con) from fishermen regarding the proposal. If "con", then I know they would like to hear an alternative proposal. Public Hearings are schedule at sites all along the coast (http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/business/feedback/meetings/statewide_hearings/ ) or you can submit your comments and recommendations by mail or email (http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/business/feedback/public_comment/).

Lance Robinson
TPWD - Coastal Fisheries
Dickinson Marine Laboratory


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## Tarponchaser (May 25, 2005)

Lance,

Thanks for the clairification. I am ok with the catch & release only with a way to set a catch & release State record. I also agree wiht Scott & Jake that a 90" minimum would be ok. Taking only fish that big would not hurt the population.

We are making progress. The State has accomplished it's goal of not having the expense of a tag. Now getting rid of the too small minimum of 80" and either moved to 90" minimum or to catch & release only with a way to still set a new State record will be good.

TC


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## LanceR (May 21, 2004)

Tarponchaser (and others) - We certainly want to hear from tarpon fishermen on this and hope all will submit their comments and recommendations at one of the Public Hearings or through the other venues available for comments (mail, email, telephone, etc). 

We also would welcome input from anglers on the best ways to fairly and accurately qualify a fish for state record consideration without having to harvest the animal. We're familiar with procedures in other states and also for other species but we also know anglers will have some great ideas and suggestions on how to accomplish this in Texas.

Lance


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## Lovett (Sep 20, 2005)

*Truth*

By the time requests for input are made to the public, the state has already decided what direction they will take on the issue! Public input is mere window dressing!


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## LanceR (May 21, 2004)

Hate to disagree with you but there are many examples where public input has resulted in changes to proposals to the Commission.


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## fin_adik (Aug 8, 2005)

How are they gonna work the catch and release record fish? Photos, measurments etc. cuz not everyone knows how to tape fish or correctly measures fish.


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## LanceR (May 21, 2004)

fin_adik - All of the details on how an angler would submit their information for state record consideration are still being looked at. Certainly length and girth would be important measures to have but you're right, clear instructions on where and how to take the measurements will be needed. I'm sure there are other variables that could be useful. If you have any ideas or suggestions please forward them to Joedy Gray ([email protected]) or call him at 800-792-1112 ext. 8037.

Lance


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## Jake Reaves (Oct 1, 2004)

I strongly believe that nothing but controversy will come out of Making Texas Tarpon strictly "catch and release record" only...keep it at 80" OR raise it to 84" OR bring the $100 back OR Create a $50 Tag...two fish were killed intentially last season, a certified, record fish and one that was thought to be a record fish...I don't think two fish are going to hurt our Tarpon Resource...Educate Tarpon Anglers on how to figure out if they have a Record fish or not to prevent people from killing fish that are not above the current record of 212 LBS...


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## TrueblueTexican (Aug 29, 2005)

*Why Kill even one?*

I would agree keeping one it isn't gonna hurt the fishery, mainly due to the low numbers of landings annually in Texas, a lot of those released fought out fish end up as shark food especially on the upper coast. For folks with their FIRST tarpon its real hard not to kill one and bring it back for braggin rights - only later do they find out skin mounts are unrealistic for a tarpon. I would lean more toward C&R, pics , length and girth and use the formula to determine weight. I really don't think we will ever see a real serious tarpon fishery in Texas( and I been at it 32 years) - no matter what its still a bump in the road on the migration routes - I believe those of us who are really passionate could benefit much more by $100.00 tarpon sticker for boats and trucks on a voluntary basis (not tied to landings/license) to help fisheries research. I donate each year to TPWD research.

Now if we can just get some mangrove to grow in Espiritu Santo


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## Capt. Lowtide (Jun 30, 2004)

*discrimination?*

I am tired of TPWD jerking our chains, no offense LanceR. Give the average angler a chance to break the state record for one year and then taking the opportunity away is nonsense.

Catch & release state record w/measurements? Come on folks, do you know how many fisherman are liars? If all anglers were honest, the use of poly graph testing in tournaments would not be neccesary.

Texas already has a serious tarpon fishery. Many guides and anglers spend an enormous amount of money annually chasing these fish.

I doubt if anyone who posts on this board wouldn't like to have an opportunity to retain a record fish for bragging rights.

The tarpon tag previously created an elitist club, enlisting the few that were serious enough and had the means to burn a $100. TPWD effectively discriminated against 99.99% of Texas anglers who could not or would not afford entry to the club.

Encouragement of release will be minimal if one of my clients catches a potentially state record sized fish before September 1st.


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## Jake Reaves (Oct 1, 2004)

TrueblueTexican said:


> I would agree keeping one it isn't gonna hurt the fishery, mainly due to the low numbers of landings annually in Texas, a lot of those released fought out fish end up as shark food especially on the upper coast. For folks with their FIRST tarpon its real hard not to kill one and bring it back for braggin rights - only later do they find out skin mounts are unrealistic for a tarpon. I would lean more toward C&R, pics , length and girth and use the formula to determine weight. I really don't think we will ever see a real serious tarpon fishery in Texas( and I been at it 32 years) - no matter what its still a bump in the road on the migration routes - I believe those of us who are really passionate could benefit much more by $100.00 tarpon sticker for boats and trucks on a voluntary basis (not tied to landings/license) to help fisheries research. I donate each year to TPWD research.
> 
> Now if we can just get some mangrove to grow in Espiritu Santo


I will have to say that Texas has a [email protected]** good Tarpon Fishery...


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## Jake Reaves (Oct 1, 2004)

Capt. Lowtide said:


> I am tired of TPWD jerking our chains, no offense LanceR. Give the average angler a chance to break the state record for one year and then taking the opportunity away is nonsense.
> 
> Catch & release state record w/measurements? Come on folks, do you know how many fisherman are liars? If all anglers were honest, the use of poly graph testing in tournaments would not be neccesary.
> 
> ...


Well Said...100% agree...


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## TrueblueTexican (Aug 29, 2005)

*I guess you need to compare*

If we had resident year round Tarpon and consistent spawning on the coast I would agree, it is good but doesn't fit the category of great, its not consistent year over year like it is further south. I have seen excellent years to compare with anywhere in the world, especially quality wise, I have also seen years you couldn't find one for love or money.

I fished POC regularly in the early eighties when it was EXCELLENT, and we saw fish all the way up into December, that was about the times the strike boats down south began netting for commercial fertilizer, THAT hurt the Texas Tarpon Fishery more than anything else could. TPWD is our managing authority and research partner, we don't work with them we all loose.

I have also fished Florida, Tampico, and Parismina coast - can't and still don't and barring continued climate change, never will see consistent YEAR ROUND action like that on our coast.

I would agree its getting better again, especially for 150-200# class fish but it doesn't take a whole lot to upset that apple cart - a few weeks of colder than normal weather really messes with it.


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## TrueblueTexican (Aug 29, 2005)

Parson ya wanna hook up in POC about 2nd week of June or last of September - we can FIX that itch ya got- 
Tony Hughes
Lateral Line Guide Services
Retired (but still goin)
[email protected]


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## Tarponchaser (May 25, 2005)

*Regs*

Guys,

I believe that Lance and other guys in the field want to do the right thing. The beancounters in Austin are a different story. They are about getting rid of all tags as they cost the State money.

Last year they wanted to get rid of the tarpon tag and the redfish tag. Elimination of the tarpon tag killed only a few fish (2? how do we know) but elimination of the oversized redfish tag would have allowed many thousands of reds to be killed as every fisherman would be allowed to kill one every day.

I e-mailed all CCA presidents and asked them and their members to send in their thought on this.

The redfish tag did not go away and I beleive that the input made it stay.

I beleive that we can get minimum size put in. The beancounters really don't care as long as it does not cost the State money.

We need to decide what we want and then all go to the meetings & say the same thing. I am good with 84 to 104. I pushed for 87 last year. Not 80.

It seems like most are good with 84". Is that right?

TC


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## finatical (Dec 3, 2004)

I personally could care less about "bragging rights"...for me it's the *total experience. *I have yet to find anything that comes close to the tarpon experience here on the upper coast...all of the bragging, pictures and story telling, pails to the experience.

The money we spend chasing and catching these great fish is minimal compared to the thrill and experience it gives in return. A $100 tag compared to the cost of a boat, depreciation, fuel, maintenance, time away from work, etc..."is a drop in the bucket".

Measurement for ANY purpose is problematic...look at the recent state record(91"L x 46"G), if you apply the calculation it should have weighed 240lbs...it didn't. The time spent trying to get a measurement just adds to the mortality potential and big fish will be killed which are not record fish. I prefer that they continue to pass along their genes since a "share a lunker" type program seems difficult at best.

Catch & Release Only...no problem...I say fight'um fast and hard...pop the leader or revive as necessary.

I have no plans to kill one of these great fish.

These are just my thoughts and feelings as a recreational angler...if I were a "pro" I'm sure I would feel differently...

On a selfish note...do you really want to double the number of guide boats and triple the number of recreational boats chasing these great fish on any given day? Not I after what I've seem SOME do off of Galveston this last season...as far as I'm concerned let's keep Texas best kept fishery secret, a secret

Tight Lips & Lines,
Finatical


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## gofish2 (Jun 27, 2006)

The redfish tag did not go away and I beleive that the input made it stay.

I beleive that we can get minimum size put in. The beancounters really don't care as long as it does not cost the State money.


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## gofish2 (Jun 27, 2006)

Sorry - hit the wrong button or something. I wanted to comment on the bean counter comment. There are bean counters and they are interested in saving money, which is usually good. However, as presented in the hearings last year the redfish proposal was on the table becasue the fishery was in such good shape TPWD felt it was possible to give something back to anglers. And in fact the vast majority of comments was no...keep it as is. Public comment does count and it can count regarding the tarpon. There is not any practical difference between the two proposals as far as i can see and i think that it will likely go where the greatest angler support is expressed. So, make sure (whatever your preference) you make it known.


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## Jimmy Durham (May 25, 2004)

A size limit of 80, 84 or 90 in Texas is a non issue as far as I am concerned, and below is why I feel this way.

What are Lousiana's regulations?

You used to be able to keep any size tarpon. TP&W should be working with LA and other state wildlife organiztions to come on board with some minimums.

To me this is like letting a nice eight point four year old buck walk by you and go across the fence and get shot five minutes latter because your lease says kill only 5 year old bucks. Untill other states and countries have some regulations, the tarpon population will likely suffer.

For me, I never will keep a tarpon. I am strickly catch and release for tarpon , and I am glad we have these minimuns in Texas. I just think TP&W is spending there efforts on the wrong people and issues. 

I wonder if a call has ever been made between the TP&W and Lousiana Wildlife Department about tarpon regulation.


Jimmy Durham


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## bslittle79 (May 24, 2004)

I say set the size limit to the existing Texas State Tarpon Record length.

This way if you keep a fish it's a good chance of breaking the existing record.


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## Scott (May 24, 2004)

bslittle79 said:


> I say set the size limit to the existing Texas State Tarpon Record length.
> 
> This way if you keep a fish it's a good chance of breaking the existing record.


I disagree with this. I've seen and caught enough tarpon to know they come in lots of different shapes and sizes. You get a short fat fish, you have a record breaker too. No, I say put it at 85 inches (nice round number). That should work.

And I agree with Jimmy gotta do something about Louisiana. Got to!!! Although they really don't kill that many fish... but it should be across the board. For that matter, Mexico is a bigger problem!! I should say PROBLEM and unfortunatley, we can't keep our borders secure so the chances of making an impact on the other side is SMALL!!! Maybe we should all just start praying real hard!!


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## Scott (May 24, 2004)

Lance will be at the Houston Fishing show this weekend and will be speaking - I think at 1:00 or 1:30 p.m. on Saturday about the new proposals, including the tarpon proposal. I'll be there. I think anybody who is likewise interested could use this as an opportunity to speak up.

See ya there.


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## Jimmy Durham (May 25, 2004)

Lance was very informative about several issues. Turtles, tarpon, trout, and snapper regulations.

Looks like it's going to be catch and release for tarpon. Measurements will be taken for large fish estimates. I see alot of trash talk coming. This requires all individuals to be honest, and that is just not going to happen. 

Jimmy Durham


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## Scott (May 24, 2004)

Yea... got your voice-mail Jimmy. I was under the weather on Saturday and didn't make it out to go see Lance. Sucked. Wanted to be there.


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