# Forming and reloading 300blk from LC brass



## jaime1982

So after much reading and watching videos I'm deciding to form my own 300 blackout brass for reloading. I have my HF saw, and my jig just came in the other day. Here is what's on the menu. 208g Amax for subs and 125g sst for a hunting round. I plan using H110 and lil gun per Hornady 9th edition. Any advice or suggestions from you guys that form your own?


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## muney pit

The 300Blackout is a cartridge i have yet to delve into yet. Looks like fun though


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## BradV

Chop, Size, Trim 

Forming the brass is very easy. Some brass manufacturers have thicker case walls and when formed to .300 Blk this results in thick necks that may not chamber. If you are using Lake City, Rem, or Win brass you probably won't have any issue here. Annealing the cases may aid you some in the resizing process. 

H110 is great for supersonic loads, but Accurate Arms 1680 would be a better choice for subsonic function in an AR. If you aren't shooting an AR then no worries.

I love my Blackout, it is a ton of fun to shoot. One of the most quiet loads I have found in my single shot is a 147gr pull down on top of 6.5gr Trail Boss. Haven't chrono'd it yet but it is VERY quiet! In my AR I have had great luck with 125gr speer TNT bullets. I imagine the SSTs you have will perform similarly.


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## jaime1982

^^ thanks for the input. I plan to shoot these mostly through a single shot and a bolt gun. The AR is gonna be sold and the funds are going toward an sbr build. I already have some of the 125sst I bought from Chad @ Dallas reloads and they are awesome and very accurate bullets. I also have some of the factory Hornady 208 A amax and those through my YHM phantom are crazy quiet


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## spurgersalty

BradV said:


> Chop, Size, Trim
> 
> Forming the brass is very easy. Some brass manufacturers have thicker case walls and when formed to .300 Blk this results in thick necks that may not chamber. If you are using Lake City, Rem, or Win brass you probably won't have any issue here. Annealing the cases may aid you some in the resizing process.
> 
> H110 is great for supersonic loads, but Accurate Arms 1680 would be a better choice for subsonic function in an AR. If you aren't shooting an AR then no worries.
> 
> I love my Blackout, it is a ton of fun to shoot. One of the most quiet loads I have found in my single shot is a 147gr pull down on top of 6.5gr Trail Boss. Haven't chrono'd it yet but it is VERY quiet! In my AR I have had great luck with 125gr speer TNT bullets. I imagine the SSTs you have will perform similarly.


I would agree, anneal before sizing. Should reduce the effort needed for resizing


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## jaime1982

Ok so i finally got around to forming some sorted LC 2013 brass. Rough cut is coming out at 1.380 and trim length is 1.355-1.358. Im trimming with the lee trimmer and a power drill. The spec calls for 1.368-.0200. Is this the trim length yall are going to?


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## Bird

Yup. I cut the 223 cases off just below the shoulder and then trim using a Lyman Pro case trimmer. I use a master dummy case that I leave in my die set box to set up the trimmer length. I'm +/- .001" on my cases usually. I now have enough brass that I don't have to form my own. Since I only reload and shoot 300blk sub sonic, the brass lasts a long time since the pressures are low. Make sure you post up your load development and recipe details.


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## jaime1982

Bird said:


> Yup. I cut the 223 cases off just below the shoulder and then trim using a Lyman Pro case trimmer. I use a master dummy case that I leave in my die set box to set up the trimmer length. I'm +/- .001" on my cases usually. I now have enough brass that I don't have to form my own. Since I only reload and shoot 300blk sub sonic, the brass lasts a long time since the pressures are low. Make sure you post up your load development and recipe details.


Sweet thanks for the info. I plan to try and load some up these next few days off and Ill post up what I come up with.


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## shooter308

don't use h110 for sub sonic loads u won't like it. A-1680 with 220sierra makes a dime size hole at 100 yards for me in my rem. 700 bolt gun 11.2 grs is what mine likes. good luck.


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## jaime1982

*progress*

Been making some progress, slowly but surely since ive been too busy lately. So far Ive chopped about 200 with only a few being throw aways. I have about 50 that are primed and ready to be loaded and the rest Ill trim and chamfer ect today since I cant fish. Its been a slow process but im learning and having fun while im doin it.

Here is the main host Ill be working with.


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## RB II

Now you are talking!! A suppressed bolt gun with sub ammo should be MONEY for hogs and other varmints. My buddy has a suppressed .308 bolt gun. I have only shot it with super ammo, still really quiet, only hear the primer/firing pin drop and the super sonic CRACK.


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## jaime1982

*more progress*

So today I made some more progress with my reloading. I have made about 350 pieces of brass and figured I have enough for now. Time to start loading, Im starting with the 208 grain Amax since thats what I shoot sub- suppressed (Hornady). I actually ended up trimming brass to 1.600 and loading starting with 7.8,7.4,7.0, and 6.8 grains of lil gun and WSR primers. I made 5 rds each giving me a starter bullet to make sure no tumbles and 4 to get a group. COL is 2.200 just like the factory 208 that I paid 1.00 per round and ended up about 0.44 per round with my reloads. I plan to shoot these this week when I have some time.

Bullet on left is factory and bullet on right is mine!


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## Wado

I have been following this thread and waiting on projectiles to be delivered so I am a few days away from loading. Like you I have my brass ready and are gathering load recipes from here and other forums. I will have to invest in a chronograph for this one I don't see much room for guessing. I gave up on my Lee trimmer, after about twenty cases it started over trimming. I was running it in a drill press and the pilot wore down immediately. It must have not been hardened correctly. Never had one fail before so back to the Lyman. The only powders I have found around locally is H110 and I4227 so that will be what I start with unless I stumble on some other powders. Keep us current on your results.
Here is a question for someone about subsonic loads. Lets say you are using 11 grains of powder and a 220 grain bullet, how much of the case is vacant after seating the bullet? I don't have a 220 grain bullet in front of me and was curious. For all I know this may be a compressed load.


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## BradV

Wado said:


> I have been following this thread and waiting on projectiles to be delivered so I am a few days away from loading. Like you I have my brass ready and are gathering load recipes from here and other forums. I will have to invest in a chronograph for this one I don't see much room for guessing. I gave up on my Lee trimmer, after about twenty cases it started over trimming. I was running it in a drill press and the pilot wore down immediately. It must have not been hardened correctly. Never had one fail before so back to the Lyman. The only powders I have found around locally is H110 and I4227 so that will be what I start with unless I stumble on some other powders. Keep us current on your results.
> Here is a question for someone about subsonic loads. Lets say you are using 11 grains of powder and a 220 grain bullet, how much of the case is vacant after seating the bullet? I don't have a 220 grain bullet in front of me and was curious. For all I know this may be a compressed load.


There is some vacant space, however with as long and deep as the 220 is seated there is not an excessive amount of room. There is enough volume to get them supersonic without compressing the powder. Some people mention that they see better ES/SD with mag primers due to the hotter ignition since the powder can move around freely in the case.


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## Wado

I have some CCI 450 magnum primers and WSR also. From what I gather the difference in some of these primers is anvil clearance and hardness to prevent slam fires in auto's but all I am concerned with for now is consistent velocities. In one of my reloading books they warn you about the possibility of flash over where the primer fires over the charge and detonates backwards causing higher pressure. It can also dislodge the bullet and send it into the barrel prematurely and then ignite the powder. The bullet becomes an obstruction at this point. I doubt if there is enough room for this to happen but we used to load 8mm Mauser and were warned to keep the case fuller on them because of this. I saw a picture of brass failure in 300 Blackout but most of the jury said more likely a double charge than a squib load or the shock wave effect. I believe if it was a real problem it would happen more frequently, specially in semi auto's.


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## jaime1982

Here is whats next on the menu. The Lehigh .308 Controlled Fracturing 170gr Subsonic Bullet. Total cost should be around $0.93.
Brass: 0.07
Powder: 0.03
Bullet: 0.80 
Primer:0.03


My only concern is where they mention that theyre not recommended for factory Remmy 700s and that they are designed for a 1:8 twist but my Remmy is a faster twist @ 1:7. That is my main host that I plan using. Does anyone have any experience with these??


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## BradV

I find that very odd. The rifle should stabilize them without issue being 1:8 or 1:7. With any subsonic round you intend to fire through your can, always fire several without the silencer attached to check for stability anyway.


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## jaime1982

BradV said:


> I find that very odd. The rifle should stabilize them without issue being 1:8 or 1:7. With any subsonic round you intend to fire through your can, always fire several without the silencer attached to check for stability anyway.


Yep, I found that odd too. Perhaps they mean a factory 308 with a 1:10,1:12 twist. Ill load em up per their load data and if I have any issues ill contact them. Thanks for the input!


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## Wado

SWFA sells Lehigh Sub Sonic loaded but doesn't have much information attached to it. Maybe 1 in 7 over rotates it, doesn't make sense running at low velocity.


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## jaime1982

Made it to the range today to chrono and try and group the new rounds. Here is the data that I came up with. I only chrono'd 10 rds. 3 were factory and 7 were mine. All of these were shot with a Remmy 700 aac-sd 16" with a 1/7 Twist. After the chrono I only shot 2 groups @ 50 yds, it was too windy to jump to 100 with subs. Wind was north-northeast and i was facing north so the groups were a lil low and to the left from my normal zero.

Factory 208grain A-Max

1. 1018 fps
2. 899 fps
3. 930 fps
Avg=949

My Reloads with once shot converted LC brass, 7.8grains Lil gun, wsr primer, 208 grain A-max. COL 2.200

1. 942 fps
2. 955 fps
3. 964 fps
Avg= 953

My Reloads with once shot converted LC brass, 7.4grains Lil gun, wsr primer, 208 grain A-max. COL 2.200

1. 874 fps
2. 887 fps
3. 853 fps
Avg 871

My Reloads with once shot converted LC brass, 7.0grains Lil gun, wsr primer, 208 grain A-max. COL 2.200

1. 776fps (too slow and decided not to shoot these)
Attached Images


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## Wado

8.0 grains might be the medicine. I sized my first brass with a Lee full length die and made a couple of dummies to see I had any problems and they felt a little snug in my 700. I ordered a small base RCBS set and squeezed a few today. I haven't made a dummy but they measured a couple of thousands smaller at the shoulder and at the head. I don't have an AR but maybe Santa will bring me one. What kind of Chronograph are you using? Got to put one of those on my letter to Santa.


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## Bird

If I remember, I'm loading 10.5 grains of A1680 and 220 SMK's, converted brass and WSR primers. Avg fps is just over 1000fps. I'll try to post my recipe details tomorrow when I get back to my reloading bench.

Those 170gr Lehighs should stabilize in your 1:8 barrel no problem.


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## jaime1982

Wado said:


> 8.0 grains might be the medicine. I sized my first brass with a Lee full length die and made a couple of dummies to see I had any problems and they felt a little snug in my 700. I ordered a small base RCBS set and squeezed a few today. I haven't made a dummy but they measured a couple of thousands smaller at the shoulder and at the head. I don't have an AR but maybe Santa will bring me one. What kind of Chronograph are you using? Got to put one of those on my letter to Santa.


Yes that's what I'm thinking 8.0 might be my #. I'm loading with Hornady dies and no problems as of yet.


Bird said:


> If I remember, I'm loading 10.5 grains of A1680 and 220 SMK's, converted brass and WSR primers. Avg fps is just over 1000fps. I'll try to post my recipe details tomorrow when I get back to my reloading bench.
> 
> Those 170gr Lehighs should stabilize in your 1:8 barrel no problem.


Good deal thanks for the data when you can can get it. I got my lehighs in today and already loaded a few just to get it out of my system.


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## jaime1982

**** side ways pics!


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## kscoggins

I got a buddy that has had success with 8gr of lil gun behind the 208amax.

Any reason you picked that 170gr fracturing Lehigh over the 194gr expander?

Looking forward to your recipe for those. I just got some powder amd primers. Gotta get a powder dispenser and set of dies.


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## jaime1982

kscoggins said:


> I got a buddy that has had success with 8gr of lil gun behind the 208amax.
> 
> Any reason you picked that 170gr fracturing Lehigh over the 194gr expander?
> 
> Looking forward to your recipe for those. I just got some powder amd primers. Gotta get a powder dispenser and set of dies.


The 194grain max expansion were all sold out, the 170s were also a bit cheaper than the 174s. I also think 8.0 grains is gonna be my magic #.


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## Wado

Those Lehigh thingies look pretty mean. They are supposed to open up and make a wound like a broad head. Critter gitters.


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## jaime1982

Wado said:


> Those Lehigh thingies look pretty mean. They are supposed to open up and make a wound like a broad head. Critter gitters.


Yea they look pretty dang cool. I can't wait to try em out on some piggies


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## hog_down

Wado said:


> Those Lehigh thingies look pretty mean. They are supposed to open up and make a wound like a broad head. Critter gitters.


They are very pricey, too


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## Wado

hog_down said:


> They are very pricey, too


Loaded from SWFA $2.20 eaches. Mucho dinero.


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## Bird

Here's my 300 Blk sub sonic recipe:
WSR primer
11.5 grains A1680
220 grain Sierra Matchking HPBT
2.260" COAL (this is just under max mag length in my metal USGI mags)

Performance:
1035 fps avg (measured by my chronograph at 10') 15.5 standard deviation 5 shot group
No feeding, ejecting or cycling problem and bolt hold open after last round
NOTE: these were shot with a suppressor
Pretty consistent with 1" or less groups at 50 yards depending on how well I'm shooting that day (1x heads up sight, no magnification)


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## horned frog

A little off topic, but not too far:

MidwayUSA has Remington HogHammer 300 Blackout ammo in stock and on sale for $22.74 per box plus $5 per box rebate on up to four boxes.
130 grain Barnes bullets in nickel plated brass cases.


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## jaime1982

Wado said:


> Loaded from SWFA $2.20 eaches. Mucho dinero.


OUCH!!! That is pretty dang expensive. If I like these 170s Ill probably buy another box and be set for a while since theses will be for subsonic hunting only. Im also waiting for the 194 ME to be back in stock then ill end up loading some of them too.


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## jaime1982

My dang harbor freight table saw took a dump today. I'll be looking into another option to chop or perhaps just buy another saw.


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## Wado

I looked at those little saws. Kind of dinky sounding that's why I use my band saw. I cut nine at a time in a wooden fixture.


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## jaime1982

Wado said:


> I looked at those little saws. Kind of dinky sounding that's why I use my band saw. I cut nine at a time in a wooden fixture.


Yea it is, and it's pretty slow and somewhat labor (time) intensive. If I had a band saw I'd look into chopping the way you do. Did you post up how you chop? How many have you done?


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## Wado

10-25-2014 07:18 PM
by Bird ​ 14 558







  300 Blackout Brass Conversion
I have done a couple of hundred. I changed the sander belt and had to reset that fixture and everything needed tightening up. I can get the saw a lot closer I just have been trying different things. I think I will order a LE Wilson trimmer. My Lyman is ok I just like the way the Wilson works.


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## Bird

On 300blktalk.com there is a thread about a guy who made a jig for the Harbor freight sized mini chop saws for converting 5.56 brass to 300blk. He was selling the jigs, weren't too expensive if I remember.


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## jaime1982

Made some more progress tonight. I loaded up some more subs, made 10 more 208 Amax over 7.8 grains lil gun ( just to work on groups already chronod). Then I made 10 more Amax over 8.2 grains lil gun (need to chrono then group)

I also made 6 of the lehigh 170grain CF over 8.0 lil gun and 6 over 8.4 grains lilgun. I need to chrono these but im not sure im gonna run these through the Remmy. I hope to make it to the range this week.


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## Wado

*Concentricity Issues*

Some suggestions when you are loading light bullets. I am trying a load of 18.5 grains of H110 pushing a 110 grain Barnes Tac Tx Flat Base bullet. After seating to OAL of 2.250 it looked crooked so I put it in concentricity tool and yep, pretty crooked. Only .160 of the bullet is going in the case so better be careful seating these pudgy little guys. I straightened it out with no problem. Won't have this problem with the heavy bullets. Lot of the problem is trying to hold everything straight going into the dies. My giant fingers don't work too good any more. Just thought I would throw this in.


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## BradV

Wado said:


> Some suggestions when you are loading light bullets. I am trying a load of 18.5 grains of H110 pushing a 110 grain Barnes Tac Tx Flat Base bullet. After seating to OAL of 2.250 it looked crooked so I put it in concentricity tool and yep, pretty crooked. Only .160 of the bullet is going in the case so better be careful seating these pudgy little guys. I straightened it out with no problem. Won't have this problem with the heavy bullets. Lot of the problem is trying to hold everything straight going into the dies. My giant fingers don't work too good any more. Just thought I would throw this in.


I am assuming you are talking about the blue tipped bullet and not the barnes black tip which is optimised for .300BLK.

I would recommend having at minimum .25" in the case neck. The black tip bullet is designed to be loaded to mag length while maintaining proper seating depth in the case neck while the blue tip is not. If you run them in an autoloader with very little bullet in the case neck I would worry that the rounds feeding could result in extra runout when they come in contact with the feed ramps and chamber.

If you do seat the bullet a little deeper also remember to lower your powder charge and work up again. The bullet will eat some of that case capacity and could cause excess pressure.


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## Wado

You are correct these are the blue tips. No luck finding the black ones. I got this straight from Barnes and they don't point out that their data is for the black tips. They are actually .128 longer than the blue ones so common sense dictates to seat the blue ones deeper. I did make two dummies and tried them in my Remington bolt action. I think Barnes needs to point this out on their web site. They do represent the black one as 300 Blackout in the catalog like you said but the load data doesn't give you that impression. Hey, we are supposed to know all this. I have loaded some .243 that barely are in the necks too, just don't stick them in an auto. I haven't put the powder to nothing yet so I'm still playing with the dummies. I might use their first anti friction groove for a place to crimp and that will set them in another .090 and I bet they will be straighter. Thanks for clearing this up I just came back from lunch and was fixing to go forum searching and see what the rest of the Blackout guru's had to say. Somewhere there has to be drawings of their projectiles so you can see where they added the extra .128.


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## BradV

Thats what forums are for! haha. For a bolt gun I don't feel it is as much of an issue but an auto just tends to be a bit violent when comparing the two feeding lol. I think it has been mentioned before but quite a bit of good info is over at www.300blktalk.com forums. I am certain you will find loads (some to be cautious of as well im sure) that are using the 110gr blue tip tac-tx.


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## jaime1982

Thanks for posting info Brad/Wado. I was actually going to start loading some 125 sst/H110 supersonic rounds this afternoon. I plan to use the 125 sst for my sons hunting round and thats what I use for a reference zero to adjust my 208s. Here is what I found last time at the range,

125sst zero to 208amax zero @50yds is 12 clicks up
125sst zero to 208amax zero @75yds is 32 clicks up
125sst zero to 208amax zero @100yds is 46 clicks up

Wifey just bought me a new Redfield Revenge 3-9-42,so I think ill put the Vortex on the single shot and the Red on my Remmy. Then Re-zero, I was planning to use the single shot to work on the Lehigh sub rounds since they(Lehigh) dont recommend using them through a facorty R700. Its raining and couldnt fish today so Ill be in my office working on gun stuff


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## Wado

Jaime, what sizing die are you using?


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## jaime1982

Wado said:


> Jaime, what sizing die are you using?


Im using the Hornady 300blk/whisper dies with a cheap Lee single press. It seems to be working out for me since im only loading 300blk right now. Its kinda slow but I have time.


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## Wado

I first used a Lee full length and then a RCBS small base. The small base is crushing them. I keep checking the vent I guess I need to grease them up a little more.


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## jaime1982

Wado said:


> I first used a Lee full length and then a RCBS small base. The small base is crushing them. I keep checking the vent I guess I need to grease them up a little more.


Wado, show us what kind of crushing you are experiencing so that I/we can learn from whats going wrong. Thanks!


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## jaime1982

*125 supers*

I ended up switching scopes and loading up some 125grain Hornady sst. I made 3 loads per Hornady 9th edition.

17.0g H110
17.5g H110
18.0g H110

Ill try and chrono these plus the other subs tomorrow. I have about 85 of the 125sst from Chads reloads (Dallas Reloads) and my rifles love em, so thats what im trying to replicate. Both of these rifles will pretty much be sub dedicated but i have the option and data to run sups (especially for kiddos).


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## Wado

You see the tiny dots? That's the vent hole in the die. I took the die out and the hole looked clear to me. I cleaned it anyway with electronic cleaner and blew it out. I started lubing heavier and it stopped. It might have been stopped up, heck I don't know. I quit running dirty brass after that too. It looks like over lubing to me. Something to watch out for.


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## Bird

Only time I've had crushing issues was over lubing cases. A little goes a long way (I use the RCBS case lube and foam pad applicator) I don't tumble my brass but it does get a good wipe down before I start the reload process.


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## Wado

I think there was some pookie in the little hole. RCBS recommends extra lube towards the base with the small base dies. Now that I have my saw and pre trim set up I am about done forming brass.


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## Wado

Got to do a little shooting today. I don't have anything too exciting to report. I don't know if the subsonic loads are that inaccurate or I pulled the gun. The gun went bang every time and it seems to like the 125 grain ballistic tips. There was another shooter at the range that had a 7.62 suppressor and I didn't have to twist his arm too hard to screw it on my rifle so we tried a few through his can. We shot a couple of factories and after the oohhh's and ahhh's subsided I gave him a subsonic. His other partners were getting all this on their cell phones and when he touched it off, you know what happened then. It sounded like a chorus all three at once, I GOT TO GET ME ONE OF THOSE! I was aiming the subsonic loads at the top right box on the target.


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## jaime1982

Wado, groups look really good with the 125s. I dont recall what rifle you are shooting with( I may have missed it) but mine seems to group dang well with the 208s. Did you happen to chrono those amaxs with 8.0 grains? I may have just got lucky where I started but 7.8g(lil gun) matches factory velocity pretty close.


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## Wado

We didn't take the chronograph with us today. It was kind of windy and had several guns to shoot. That guys supressor sure sold a couple of 300 Blackouts today. I was shooting a Remington 700 like yours. I think I can close the groups up on a better day. I have some 150 grain Power Points I want to load. Tomorrow I will see if I can get a recipe.


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## jaime1982

Wado said:


> We didn't take the chronograph with us today. It was kind of windy and had several guns to shoot. That guys supressor sure sold a couple of 300 Blackouts today. I was shooting a Remington 700 like yours. I think I can close the groups up on a better day. I have some 150 grain Power Points I want to load. Tomorrow I will see if I can get a recipe.


Keep us posted on any work you get done. I cant make it to the range till friday since Im on days this week, but ill definitely post up my results.


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## Wado

I actually found a load for Winchester 150 grain Power Points on another forum. Hogdon gives a load for 150 grain Interbonds that apparently are no longer made with a starting charge of 15.0 grains of H 110 to 16.2 max. This other player posted a starting load of 16.2 up to 16.6 of H110 in an AR using 150 Grain Power Points with no signs of pressure. I will work up to 16.2 and see what happens. I sure need me a pile of dirt at my shop so I can chronograph some loads. I would hate to fire one off and see one of my neighbors horses turning flips.


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## jaime1982

Wado, I have pics of the Hornady 9th edition if you want it. Im sure ithas the 150grain loads with H110. Im not sure If I found it here or TBH.


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## Bird

I did not have good luck with H110 for my sub rounds. The rounds all fed, cycled and BHO at last round but the velocities were very inconsistent with extreme spreads over 50 fps. My groups looked like a shotgun pattern. 300blk subs are very sensitive to minimal changes in powder charge and seating depth. I also found that having less open space inside the case under the bullet helped with consistency. Incidentally, this held true for my 308 sub loads.

Hornady 9th edition load data for 150gr bullets and H110:
start- 12.3 @1500fps
max- 15.9 @1800fps


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## Wado

I just test fired two loads. Both were 150 grain Winchester power Points seated to 2.060, one charged with 15.5 grains of H110 and one with 16.0. The primers don't even flatten out. Maybe that doesn't matter. Got to get a Chronograph. I also loaded some 150's with 16.5 grains of I 4227. I haven't test fired them.


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## jaime1982

I'm on the way to the range, should have an update with some #s here in a bit.


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## jaime1982

*update*

So I got some range time today, kinda bummed because the 8.2grain lil gun Amaxs went supersonic as well as the 8.0grain lil gun Lehighs. I made a some Amaxs with 7.8grains lil gun last week and they grouped ok (previously chronod and theyre subsonic). It seems my magic # is between 7.8-8.0ish. I was at the range a while since I had to rezero both rifles and get dial in data for 125sst/208Amax zeros (changed scopes). I also chronod the 125sst I loaded with H110 17.0,17.5,&18.0grains. All grouped ok I guess for me not really trying. The 125s even with 18.0 grains showed no overpressure signs. Here is what I came up with: Opinions?

Hornady AMAX DATA: Shot through R700 aac-sd*with can on
My Reloads with once shot converted LC brass, 8.2grains Lil gun, wsr primer, 208 grain A-max. COL 2.200
1.1087
2.1076
3.1094
4.1085
Avg=1085
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
LEHIGH defense DATA:shot through single shot CVA*with can on
My Reloads with once shot converted LC brass, 8.4grains Lil gun, wsr primer, 170 grain Lehigh controlled fra. COL 1.985
1.
2.
3.
Avg= DID NOT CHRONO/SHOOT

My Reloads with once shot converted LC brass, 8.0grains Lil gun, wsr primer, 170 grain Lehigh controlled fra. COL 1.985
1.1186
2.1203
3.1225
Avg=1205(supersonic)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hornady 125 sst DATA: shot through R700 aac-sd*no can
Chads Reloads,
1.2226fps
2.2276fps
Avg=2251fps

My Reloads with once shot converted LC brass, 17.0grains H110,wsr primer, 125sst COAL-2.100 
1.2134fps
2.2114fps 
3.2187fps
Avg=2145-fps

My Reloads with once shot converted LC brass, 17.5grains H110,wsr primer, 125sst COAL-2.100 
1.2164fps
2.2196fps
3.2194fps
Avg=2184-fps

My Reloads with once shot converted LC brass, 18.0grains H110,wsr primer, 125sst COAL-2.100 
1.2164fps
2.2234fps
3.2213fps
4.2204fps
Avg=2204-fps


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## jaime1982

*pics*

pic 1. 208amax/7.8lilgun @50yds
pic 2. 208amax/factory rezero @50yds
pic 3. 125sst rezero @50yds
pic 4. 208amax/7.8lilgun adjustments @50yds
pic 5. 125sst rezero @50yds
pic 6.125sst to 208amax rezero @ 50yds

These are targets with both guns, since Id like to be able to use either and have 125/208 zeros for both.


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## andre3k

Came across this video from a guy I subscribe to on youtube. Seems like an easy setup for making brass. I don't know if you have a 650 or not.


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## jaime1982

andre3k said:


> Came across this video from a guy I subscribe to on youtube. Seems like an easy setup for making brass. I don't know if you have a 650 or not.


I don't have a 650 but I'll check it out.


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## jaime1982

I ended up loading some more 125sst with 17.5, and 18.o grains of h110 to work on groups in the next few days. I also loaded up some more amax with 7.8+/- 0.1 lil gun and might even try 8.0grains. The Leighs need a lil more thought.


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## Bird

I had the same results shooting H110 in subs, they shot all over the paper and were inconsistent with velocity. Great in supers but I gave up on the subs with H110 and started with A1680 for subs.


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## jaime1982

Bird said:


> I had the same results shooting H110 in subs, they shot all over the paper and were inconsistent with velocity. Great in supers but I gave up on the subs with H110 and started with A1680 for subs.


I never used H110 for subs for this very reason, i used lil gun for subs and H110 for supers getting very good results with both. My last try for 1050fps with the 208amax- 8.2 grains lil gun went supersonic so I'm back at 7.8,7.9.


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## Wado

Since I don't have a chronograph or suppressor yet I don't have much input on the sub loads. We did fire one through a suppressor last week loaded with 8grains of Lil Gun and I didn't hear the crack, I could hear the bullet bouncing around after it hit the target. Pretty sure it was a sub load. Any way here are some 150 grain loads using 16.0 grains of H110 and 16.5 grains of I4227 at fifty yards. I sighted in with Hornady 110 factory loads and elevation didn't change but the heavier bullets shot right of point of aim. I tried some holdover shots with the sub's just for kicks. The other targets to the right was my 17 HMR. No pressure in any of these loads. I wanted to stretch out to 100 then 200 yards but I had hunters all around me this weekend and they frown on target practice so I limited my shooting. Can't even poot loud or you will get a phone call.


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## jaime1982

^^ Nice! Im still working on the 170grain lehighs load, hope to get some data by next week.


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## Wado

Got some more rockets to play with. Hornady 220 grain Interlock round nose part #3090, .36 cents each. Wish I had some Trail Boss or 1680. I read somewhere a zombie hunter pushed the order button on 48 pounds of 1680 at Midway. No wonder there ain't no powder.


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## Wado

*Hollow Pointer*

I may have finally gone too far. My parents knew they were in trouble when they came home and I had taken a big clock apart and had gears and little bearings and springs all over the house. Here's the scoop, 220 Grain Hornady RN"S pushed to the groove and heavy crimped. Stuck the loaded round back into my home made "meplat" device and drilled 10 grains of lead out of the nose with a 1/8" drill bit. Unfortunately the lathe used to drill the drill bushing was not exactly for precision work and I don't think it is as close to center as I would like it. I rotated the round a quarter turn and made a clean up pass and it looks pretty close. I am not really worried about over charging but more so if I under charge. The 208's take up more volume than these but the design of the two are radically different. I am going to have to think a while on this one. I forgot, the dummy rounds I made chamber in my 700, no length issues.


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## jaime1982

Very interesting Wado!


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## Wado

The bit is drilling about .300" into the nose section so I don't think much expansion is going to happen at turtle velocities. I may take them down to 200 grains and that will leave a deep cavity. With all the error in my fixture accuracy may be non existent. May be like a tire with a lump on it. I sure as heck ain't sending them through a suppressor, not right yet. I have a bunch of old phone books I can stack and shoot to see if they expand any. Any bets?


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## Bird

Wado said:


> The bit is drilling about .300" into the nose section so I don't think much expansion is going to happen at turtle velocities. I may take them down to 200 grains and that will leave a deep cavity. With all the error in my fixture accuracy may be non existent. May be like a tire with a lump on it. I sure as heck ain't sending them through a suppressor, not right yet. I have a bunch of old phone books I can stack and shoot to see if they expand any. *Any bets?*


I'll toss in my 2 grains of opinion- They look cool and I bet you get some nose deformation but no real expansion. I have recovered a few Sierra 220 grain Pro Hunter roundnose bullets from the dirt at the 50 yard targets. Almost no expansion other than knocking the lead off the tip. One even hit a rock and it barely tore the jacket. The jacket on those big round nose bullets are just too thick for good expansion at sub velocities. Most damage comes from the bullet tumbling after entry. I'll try to post pics tonight when I get home of the recovered bullets. Either way, please keep us updated, they really do look cool.


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## bearintex

Wado said:


> The bit is drilling about .300" into the nose section so I don't think much expansion is going to happen at turtle velocities. I may take them down to 200 grains and that will leave a deep cavity. With all the error in my fixture accuracy may be non existent. May be like a tire with a lump on it. I sure as heck ain't sending them through a suppressor, not right yet. I have a bunch of old phone books I can stack and shoot to see if they expand any. Any bets?


Go poke around on www.castboolits.com and look for a thread about these bullets. The guy drills them out, fills the cavity with silicone and inserts a BB on top. Then skives the sides of the bullet down a ways. Gets pretty good expansion in water jugs and great performance on critters. I'd go find the thread, but big brother doesn't like that site....


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## Wado

One time I was searching the internet for a drawing of a five pointed star, I was too lazy to figure the angles myself. To make a long story short I went to a cool website that had pictures of all kinds of stars. I accidentally went to a devil worshipping/witchcraft site. I got a virus that destroyed my computer. Got to be careful where you do your research. My main goal in drilling these was to shed some weight and if they expand a little bit ok too. It doesn't look like Hornady "skives" these to upset the bullet and basically is a soft solid. I wouldn't want one to smack me in the noggin drilled or not. I think the 125 grain supers is going to be the best combination for me in the long run.


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## jaime1982

Wado said:


> One time I was searching the internet for a drawing of a five pointed star, I was too lazy to figure the angles myself. To make a long story short I went to a cool website that had pictures of all kinds of stars. I accidentally went to a devil worshipping/witchcraft site. I got a virus that destroyed my computer. Got to be careful where you do your research. My main goal in drilling these was to shed some weight and if they expand a little bit ok too. It doesn't look like Hornady "skives" these to upset the bullet and basically is a soft solid. I wouldn't want one to smack me in the noggin drilled or not. I think the 125 grain supers is going to be the best combination for me in the long run.


LOL yea watch out where ya searching, some crazy stuff out there on the interwebs!

As of now Im also sticking with the 125sst for a supersonic round, all my rifles seem to like them alot. As far as the subs Ive kicked the idea around so shoot some cast boolits(cheaper than the hornady 208 Amax) but Im not sure about the extra prep and steps needed to bell/flair out the cases. All my guns eat the 208s up, group pretty good, and I can load em for about $0.40ish now. As far as the Lehigh subsonics, I havent loaded any since I was busy fishing my few days off (kinda slow) and was sick. I think Ill start with about 10% less charge than where I was and work my way down.


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## Bird

Ok, here's a pic of 2 Sierra Pro Hunter 220 grain round nose bullets I recovered from the dirt berm. Estimated impact velocity 1020-ish fps into hard clay/dirt/silt mix at 50 yards...no expansion, which is exactly what the Sierra bullets folks told me to expect.


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## Wado

*Expansion Test*

I could make this a real long story. I started this experiment yesterday but never could recover the projectiles, with a metal detector even. We shot through one phone book into soft dirt from ten feet. We found the two 150 grain power points I shot a week ago but not the home made hollow points. Soooo, I made a sand trap and tripled up on the phone books. It turns out I didn't need the sand, phone books are tough even at fifteen feet. The hollow point made it through one book and shed it's jacket at number two and the lead core made it to number three. The un-drilled made it to three and weighed back in at 187 grains, a loss of 33 grains. I recovered 180.6 grains from the hollow point. A loss of 23.4 grains. Both loads were with 8.0 grains of Lil' Gun and 220 grain Hornady round nose one drilled out to weigh 209 grains minus a bit. It made a mess of the books, probably why we never found them yesterday. The metal detector was beeping but no solid pieces. The two together are the 150's that was just shot into soft dirt at ten feet or so.


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## jaime1982

Bird said:


> Ok, here's a pic of 2 Sierra Pro Hunter 220 grain round nose bullets I recovered from the dirt berm. Estimated impact velocity 1020-ish fps into hard clay/dirt/silt mix at 50 yards...no expansion, which is exactly what the Sierra bullets folks told me to expect.


This is just about what I get out of the 208 Amax, just lose some of the red tip and maybe a little bit of bending of the bullet. ill see if I can find some to post up pics.



Wado said:


> I could make this a real long story. I started this experiment yesterday but never could recover the projectiles, with a metal detector even. We shot through one phone book into soft dirt from ten feet. We found the two 150 grain power points I shot a week ago but not the home made hollow points. Soooo, I made a sand trap and tripled up on the phone books. It turns out I didn't need the sand, phone books are tough even at fifteen feet. The hollow point made it through one book and shed it's jacket at number two and the lead core made it to number three. The un-drilled made it to three and weighed back in at 187 grains, a loss of 33 grains. I recovered 180.6 grains from the hollow point. A loss of 23.4 grains. Both loads were with 8.0 grains of Lil' Gun and 220 grain Hornady round nose one drilled out to weigh 209 grains minus a bit. It made a mess of the books, probably why we never found them yesterday. The metal detector was beeping but no solid pieces. The two together are the 150's that was just shot into soft dirt at ten feet or so.


Very cool on the 150s, seem to have opened up really good and a good and appreciated report on the drilled out 220s. That was actually pretty cool idea. Do you have a item # for the Hornady 220s I might look into them.

Where are you located Wado, I might have to take a trip to work out the bugs and chrono on the 174grain Lehighs since I havent had any time here lately. I did however have the chance to size a few hundy of some fresh cut new batch of brass though. I have about another 500 rough cut coming after these since I havent reloaded up my reformed brass that I have shot once (2-total).


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## Wado

Hornady # 3090 for the 220's. I can't shoot over a chronograph here, I test fire into a pile of dirt. I made a trap yesterday to catch these dang things since we looked for two hours a couple of days ago. I bet my neighbors wondered what the heck are two grown men doing digging up a pile of dirt. And then putting it back. Last year at any given time we could sit at either one of our two deer feeders in Frio County and see twenty to thirty pigs and they were absolutely stupid. This year I saw one about four hundred yards. We got a little rain and I guess they aren't moving. Last year they attacked a wheat field north of me for two months. I can't even test my ammo on a live subject, but I bet before it's over I will. Year before last we trapped 112 in six days and didn't put a dent in them. I like the picture of the stampede. I videoed the deer for twenty minutes or longer, I sure hope he made it but I haven't seen him this year.


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## jaime1982

*update*

I loaded some more of the wallet busters(lehigh defense 170g CF bullets) a bit ago. So far Im going to try 7.5grains, 7.0grains and a few at 6.8grains lil gun. I also loaded these shorter than the last ones with COAL of 1.955. Im hoping i can keep some of these subsonic, if not Ill probably end up buying another 50 pack. I have about 20 left and not sure I want to start looking into another expanding subsonic bullet. (even though I might).

I think im going to stay where Im at with the 125sst and the 208amax as of now. Im going to try to chrono these tomorrow if possible.


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## jaime1982

I also added an extra step in the process. Re tumble in walnut shells for a few hrs after sizing to remove the lanolin oil. Brass looks nice and shiny again.


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## jaime1982

I got these cheap 150grain bullets from everglades ammunition thanks to the cheap 308 bullets thread and plan to load these subsonic for a plinker round. 60.00 for 500 rds sounded pretty good. Ill probably load some of these tonight or tomorrow and chrono them sometime this week if possible.


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## BradV

Many people have had trouble getting those particular bullets to cycle due to the shape. You may want to load a couple at various seating depths and hand cycle some dummies since they are so cheap to possibly save some headache when actually shooting them. I hope they end up working well for you! I know that Trailboss powder behind 147gr pulls is incredibly quiet in my single shot with suppressor but it will not cycle an AR.


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## jaime1982

BradV said:


> Many people have had trouble getting those particular bullets to cycle due to the shape. You may want to load a couple at various seating depths and hand cycle some dummies since they are so cheap to possibly save some headache when actually shooting them. I hope they end up working well for you! I know that Trailboss powder behind 147gr pulls is incredibly quiet in my single shot with suppressor but it will not cycle an AR.


Thanks for the info Brad. Im still waiting for my 10.5'' upper so its single shot or bolt gun for now. As long as I can get them stabilize and not tumble it should be cool. Im planning to start around 8grains lil gun and go down from there. 
What single shot are you shooting from Handi?


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## BradV

Yeah I am shooting from a handi rifle. Love the gun, it is a fun rifle to play with. My AR is a cmmg 16" upper until my SBR stamp is approved, then I will likely build a short upper.

You should have no problem stabilizing that bullet.


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## mas360

What velocity did you load those copper plated 147 grainner to?


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## jaime1982

I loaded up some of the Everglade 150grain bullets a bit ago. Gonna start @ 8.0 grains of lil gun and work my way down to in 0.5 grain increments then adjust when I get closer to target velocity from there. Coal is 1.900(for now, I might make them a bit shorter) and chambers fine in my bolt gun and single shot CVA. If all goes well I might make these my new plinker round. For 0.25 per round including brass thats not too bad imo. I will advise when I can chrono these.


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## jaime1982

I loaded 30 of the 150grain everglade bullets lastnight. Started at 8.0 grains,7.5grains and going down to 7.0 grains. Im gonna see what it takes to keep em subsonic for a possible 50yard plink round. I havent been to the range in what seems like forever because of the dang weather. 

On another note loooky what just came in the mail! My new 10.5'' upper. I think this little gun will be a supersonic/suppressed hog/varmint killer. I need to shop around for some glass, a mount and a mag411 foregrip then I should be good.


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## mas360

Is an SBR permit still required it you install a suppressor and therefore barrel length is greater than 16" ?


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## speckle-catcher

as far as I know - yes. but I'm still learning.


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## jaime1982

mas360 said:


> Is an SBR permit still required it you install a suppressor and therefore barrel length is greater than 16" ?


Yes any barrel that is less than 16" permanently needs to be on a pistol lower or a registered sbr lower. The suppressor doesn't add to anything.


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## mas360

jaime1982 said:


> I loaded up some of the Everglade 150grain bullets a bit ago. Gonna start @ 8.0 grains of lil gun and work my way down to in 0.5 grain increments then adjust when I get closer to target velocity from there. Coal is 1.900(for now, I might make them a bit shorter) and chambers fine in my bolt gun and single shot CVA. If all goes well I might make these my new plinker round. For 0.25 per round including brass thats not too bad imo. I will advise when I can chrono these.


What is the test result with this Everglade bullet?


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## jaime1982

mas360 said:


> What is the test result with this Everglade bullet?


No results as of yet, I havent had the time to go shoot lately and I moved a scope over to my new build. I have to re mount and re zero a Leupold VX1 on my R700 which I planned to use these light weight subs. I can try them with my single shot CVA rifle when I Do get to go out though. Maybe I can try tomorrow. Im hoping I can keep them subsonic.


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## jaime1982

*update*

I made it to the range today since the weather was pretty nice. It was a pinch windy but we made it work. I ended up having to re-zero my R700 with my 125grain sst reloads and they did quite well grouping 1'' or less at 50 yds. I did shoot some of my 208 Amax rounds and those also performed very well <1'' as expected. I also got time to chrono and try out the new 150grain Everglade bullets that I bought for cheap. We want to keep the 150's subsonic so I will need to load a few more and get more data(perhaps next week). I also got to chrono the Lehigh CF rounds. Here is what I came up with. I did not group the 150's or the Lehighs just chronod.

150grain Everglade shot out of my singe shot CVA, Stabilized very well and shot with the YHM can on (still very quiet).

My Reloads with once shot converted LC brass trimmed to 1.360, 8.0grains Lil gun, wsr primer, 150 grain everglade flatpoint. COL 1.910
1.1237 fps 
2.1197 fps
3.1239 fps
Avg=1225 fps

My Reloads with once shot converted LC brass trimmed to 1.360, 7.5grains Lil gun, wsr primer, 150 grain everglade flatpoint. COL 1.910
1.1097 fps 
2.1159 fps
3.1148 fps
4.1184 fps
5.1183 fps
Avg=1134 fps

My Reloads with once shot converted LC brass trimmed to 1.360, 7.0grains Lil gun, wsr primer, 150 grain everglade flatpoint. COL 1.910
1.1057 fps
2.1112 fps
3.1062 fps
4.1124 fps
5.1100 fps
6.1072 fps
Avg=1087 fps
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As far as the Lehighs here is what I came up with:
My Reloads with once shot converted LC brass trimmed to 1.360, 7.5grains Lil gun, wsr primer, 170 grain Lehigh controlled fra. COL 1.955
1.1136 fps
2.1077 fps
3.1083 fps
Avg=1099 fps

My Reloads with once shot converted LC brass trimmed to 1.360, 7.0grains Lil gun, wsr primer, 170 grain Lehigh controlled fra. COL 1.955
1.1005 fps
2.1021 fps
3.1021 fps
Avg=1015 fps

My Reloads with once shot converted LC brass trimmed to 1.360, 6.8grains Lil gun, wsr primer, 170 grain Lehigh controlled fra. COL 1.955
1.1023 fps
2.970 fps
3.950 fps
Avg=981 fps


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## muney pit

mas360 said:


> Is an SBR permit still required it you install a suppressor and therefore barrel length is greater than 16" ?


More of a stamp than a permit.


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## mas360

"My Reloads with once shot converted LC brass trimmed to 1.360, 7.0grains Lil gun, wsr primer, 150 grain everglade flatpoint. COL 1.910
1.1057 fps
2.1112 fps
3.1062 fps
4.1124 fps
5.1100 fps
6.1072 fps
Avg=1087 fps"

How did this load group?


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## jaime1982

mas360 said:


> "My Reloads with once shot converted LC brass trimmed to 1.360, 7.0grains Lil gun, wsr primer, 150 grain everglade flatpoint. COL 1.910
> 1.1057 fps
> 2.1112 fps
> 3.1062 fps
> 4.1124 fps
> 5.1100 fps
> 6.1072 fps
> Avg=1087 fps"
> 
> How did this load group?


I didnt get a chance to group em, just chrono em. Ill be starting at 6.5grains and going back to the range on Wednesday. Ill group and chrono them then, I want to keep em subsonic but the empty case space kinda concerns me. Ill be reloading some more tonight and update on Wednesday(hopefully).


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## Wado

Does Trail Boss take up more space than Lil' Gun? I have read tons of script on the subject of fire over or shock wave loads and I don't think any one has ever been able to make this happen in a controlled experiment. It is a mystery that I don't really want to experience.


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## Bird

Wado said:


> *Does Trail Boss take up more space than Lil' Gun?*


Yes. Trailboss looks like big flake shotgun powder with a tiny hole in middle. Kinda like micro sized gunpowder donuts. It works good but is pretty dirty.


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## Wado

I have some Trailboss and Lil' Gun but I haven't weighed them and done a volume comparison. There has to be some other powders that aren't in short supply for subs that are safe. There is a write up callled " The Load " that goes into some detail using Red Dot for reduced loads.


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## bearintex

Wado said:


> I have some Trailboss and Lil' Gun but I haven't weighed them and done a volume comparison. There has to be some other powders that aren't in short supply for subs that are safe. There is a write up callled " The Load " that goes into some detail using Red Dot for reduced loads.


I would love to be able to use Bullseye, as I have many pounds of it for my pistol stuff.


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## mas360

jaime1982 said:


> I didnt get a chance to group em, just chrono em. Ill be starting at 6.5grains and going back to the range on Wednesday. Ill group and chrono them then, I want to keep em subsonic but the empty case space kinda concerns me. Ill be reloading some more tonight and update on Wednesday(hopefully).


Any verdict yet?...:bounce:

Do you fill the empty space with filler (cotton ball perhaps)?


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## jaime1982

mas360 said:


> Any verdict yet?...:bounce:
> 
> Do you fill the empty space with filler (cotton ball perhaps)?


No, I got stuck having to work on honey do stuff here around the house. I tried to go yesterday but ended up furniture shopping most of the day . I hope to get some more data this week if I can, then shoot some ***** if I see some.


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## jaime1982

Made some mo progress today. Yea it was pretty windy but I made it out to chrono and group the 150 grain Everglade flat point bullets this morning. Here is what I came up with, not great but not too bad either. I also grouped the Lehigh CF rounds and am VERY happy with their groups @ 50yds. I want to try these next weekend if we get a chance to hunt. 1st 2 groups are the 150s, then I shot some 208 Amax, the last group is the Lehigh CF rounds. 

The 150 Everglade are costing me about $0.23 and that includes 0.05 for brass... Not a bad plinker or pest killer.

My Reloads with once shot converted LC brass trimmed to 1.360, 6.5+/-0.1grains Lil gun, wsr primer, 150 grain everglade flatpoint. COL 1.910
1.945 fps 
2.1075 fps
3.1012 fps
4.1022 fps
5.1004 fps
Avg=1012


----------



## WesinTX

These are the bullets I started loading for plinkers. Cycled fine in my two pistols over 16.8grns of IMR4227.

http://lucky13bullets.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=29&products_id=156


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## Lezz Go

We have L'll Gun powder in stock at Big Guy's in Pearland.


----------



## jaime1982

Lezz Go said:


> We have L'll Gun powder in stock at Big Guy's in Pearland.


Thanks for the heads up, I could use some more.


----------



## shiggs

Anyone critter test the Lehigh CF round yet?


----------



## jaime1982

shiggs said:


> Anyone critter test the Lehigh CF round yet?


Im gonna hunt this weekend and take the single shot blackout (and a .308). I want my son to shoot a doe with the 125sst and might get to try the Lehighs on a blackbuck doe(maybe)... Im a bit concerned with under-penetration and possible premature expansion on the rib area though... Id hate to injur an animal.

Maybe we can both aim and he can shoot, if it gets up ill finish it off with the .308. He just isnt that experienced to pull that off. May need to buddy hunt.


----------



## Wado

*300 Blackout Sub's*

This might have been discussed already but here goes. Has any one been able to get a sub load to cycle in an AR carbine length 300 Blackout with stock guts in it with any powder other than 1680? I have a Colt lower that my 300 upper is sitting on and just recently tried some subs with 208 grain A max's pushed with 8 grains of Lil' Gun. They fired but wouldn't cycle. Some ejected and some fed the next round but wouldn't fire. Same with the 220's with the same charge. I am getting to the point where I believe this is a waste of time, just use my bolt rifle. I have a feeling Trail Boss which for some reason has become abundant won't work either unless you go over the speed limit. I have read some guys are pushing the 208's just above sub speed with Lil' Gun and making them cycle. And here is another test. When you are sitting in your blind or whatever and the piggies are fifty yards and closer rack a round into your AR and see what they do. They don't make a can for that noise.


----------



## Bird

Wado said:


> This might have been discussed already but here goes. Has any one been able to get a sub load to cycle in an AR carbine length 300 Blackout with stock guts in it with any powder other than 1680? I have a Colt lower that my 300 upper is sitting on and just recently tried some subs with 208 grain A max's pushed with 8 grains of Lil' Gun. They fired but wouldn't cycle. Some ejected and some fed the next round but wouldn't fire. Same with the 220's with the same charge. I am getting to the point where I believe this is a waste of time, just use my bolt rifle. I have a feeling Trail Boss which for some reason has become abundant won't work either unless you go over the speed limit. I have read some guys are pushing the 208's just above sub speed with Lil' Gun and making them cycle. And here is another test. When you are sitting in your blind or whatever and the piggies are fifty yards and closer rack a round into your AR and see what they do. They don't make a can for that noise.


Are you using a suppressor? It will make a difference as they cause a fair bit of back pressure. My 300blk has completely stock parts from High Standard here in Houston. 16" barrel, carbine length gas tube, Mil-Spec parts, and an AAC Cyclone can. I worked some sub loads using 4198 and didn't have any problems cycling or bolt hold open at last round. Big problem was consistency. They printed all over the target and had velocity spread over 100 fps. I tried H110 as well with the same results. If I had to spend the time I could get those powders to work. I can send you my initial results using 4198 and H110 for comparison. A1680 has just been the most consistent powder for me. Fortunately I have it.


----------



## jaime1982

I have yet to shoot subs suppressed out of my AR so Im all ears lol.


----------



## Wado

I have a SRT Shadow suppressor I screwed on it last week. Just need a powder bullet combo with enough gas to operate the action and I don't want to drill ports and do a bunch of part swapping. The thing is noisy anyway with the action clanging about. Shooting supers through it gives me a warm fuzzy feeling so that's good enough for now. I even screwed it on my 17 to see what that was all about. Pretty cool effect. I got through shooting and made a drive around our fence line to see if any jack rabbits were out and made my first kill with my 300 bolt rifle. He had been getting in the attic of the house and raising all kinds of heck but no mas.


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## Bird

^^Ya think ya brought enough gun? Just kidding, that's cool. I want a 300blk bolt gun just haven't put it on my top priority list yet. Have you looked on 300blktalk.com? They have a really good user added list of recipes that will have Lil Gun.


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## Wado

Bird said:


> ^^Ya think ya brought enough gun? Just kidding, that's cool. I want a 300blk bolt gun just haven't put it on my top priority list yet. Have you looked on 300blktalk.com? They have a really good user added list of recipes that will have Lil Gun.


I went ahead and became a member on that forum. Lots of recipes and some pretty bold attempts also. I have looked at Sniper's Hide and AR 15 .com also. My biggest problem is I don't have the space here to shoot over a chronograph and I don't even own one. I have a bunch of incremental charges made up ready to try in my rifles it seems like I can't find time for it. It's all recreation anyway, it will get done. That squirrel was wanted for some crimes he committed on New Years Eve this past year. I think a 17HMR would have done more damage honestly. It just poked a hole through his body and didn't even knock him out of the tree. Sure made the fur fly.


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## mas360

What do you 300 Blk experts think of using 110 grains .30 Carbine projectiles for blk loading? is it going to beat the old WWII M1 carbine in velocity and accuracy?


----------



## Wado

mas360 said:


> What do you 300 Blk experts think of using 110 grains .30 Carbine projectiles for blk loading? is it going to beat the old WWII M1 carbine in velocity and accuracy?


I stole this:
If your referring to a 110gr 30 carbine bullet I've had good luck with them cycling the action reliably in an AR pistol w/7.5" barrel. I loaded to 1.845" COAL.

The problem is I've been using copper coated and they don't group worth a darn. Reducing the load now to see where/if the slower speed might help.

Since your using FMJ you shouldn't have the same issue. I loaded as high as 20gr W296 and no pressure signs on the brass in _my_ pistol.


----------



## mas360

I saw a sale on .30 carbine bullets at Widener's for good price and was wondering if it is worth it. My rifle is Remington Model 7, so, action cycling is not an issue but I'd like to shoot no more than 3" groups at 100 yards.


----------



## Wado

*125 grain subs*

Getting ready to stuff some 125 grainers on top of Trail Boss. I hope I don't hang one up in my barrel.


----------



## jaime1982

Wado said:


> Getting ready to stuff some 125 grainers on top of Trail Boss. I hope I don't hang one up in my barrel.


Going light weight sub? Which 125s are you rolling?


----------



## muney pit

jaime1982 said:


> Going light weight sub? Which 125s are you rolling?


I've seen that done around. I believe 6.5-7.0 of trailboss is the magic 1050fps number. I would start higher and work down as always with subs though.


----------



## jaime1982

muney pit said:


> I've seen that done around. I believe 6.5-7.0 of trailboss is the magic 1050fps number. I would start higher and work down as always with subs though.


I got the 150s round nose to stay sub with Lil gun but still need to work on better grouping.


----------



## Wado

jaime1982 said:


> Going light weight sub? Which 125s are you rolling?


I have some SST's. I thought I had read 5.7 grains was about all you can stuff in with 125's. The same author claimed 5.4 to be the accurate load. I most likely will start high. It was pretty much in everything I read that you can forget about Trail Boss cycling auto's. Actually the most informative write up I found was done by an Australian fellow. Lets see if I got this right, he said he shoots an AR single shot. I guess automatics are restricted there.


----------



## Wado

*Uhhhh ohhhh!*

Hung one up.








Stay tuned.


----------



## jaime1982

Wado said:


> Hung one up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stay tuned.


Dang!!!


----------



## muney pit

Wado said:


> Hung one up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stay tuned.


Get a wooden dowel just big enough to fit down the bore and pop it out.....hopefully. Mine was close to the end when i did mine.


----------



## Chase4556

Wado said:


> I have some SST's. I thought I had read 5.7 grains was about all you can stuff in with 125's. The same author claimed 5.4 to be the accurate load. I most likely will start high. It was pretty much in everything I read that you can forget about Trail Boss cycling auto's. Actually the most informative write up I found was done by an Australian fellow. Lets see if I got this right, he said he shoots an AR single shot. I guess automatics are restricted there.


Obviously its to late as you have already stuck a round, but I pretty much fill up the case with trail boss when I shoot my 70gr 223 subs... odds are, you will encounter stuck rounds trying to use trail boss in a 300blk sub load. Not sure what charge of powder you had in the one that stuck, but I would probably guess it was very close to a compressed load.


----------



## Wado

*Trail Boss*

This science project has put a lot of questions in my mind. Is Trail Boss unpredictable, are my primers bad, do I need to drill out the flash holes, do I need to lube the bullets, do I need to run a patch through after a few rounds? The weird thing is the first one I fired missed a three foot by two foot target completely at fifty yards (without the suppressor). I heard the ricochet so I assumed high and aimed dead center low. Popped it right where I aimed so I aimed at the hole, popped another one right beside it. One more for good luck and drove down to the target and looked at it. Nice clean holes, not sideways. I screwed the can on and shot two five shot groups all in a nice cluster. Then I shot three rounds of 208 grain A Max and they impacted exactly where the did the last time I shot them. Then it got weird. I loaded three of the 125's a up and the first one missed completely, the next one was eight inches low and then ffffffttt, party's over. Like farting at the dinner table, I'm in trouble now. Like Muney Pit it was a couple of inches from the muzzle so I bumped it out with a cleaning rod. I stopped at a gun store yesterday in Victoria to get a new Auto Prime and the guy there just got a 220 out of an AR barrel. The load was almost compressed and is very sooty. I am going to have to think on this a bit.
I shoot subs in a 700 bolt rifle never in my AR.


----------



## muney pit

I've never noticed that big of a spread. My be the light 125's need a crimp. Did u crono those by chance?


----------



## Wado

No chrono on these, I took a chance. I don't think much more powder will fit and I didn't crimp either. The crimp might hold them enough to get good ignition, you can see the soot all over the one I knocked out. I have four remaining and will pull the bullets and weigh the powder just to see. I weigh every charge twice, once on a beam scale and then on a digital. The primers I used are old, I mean old old. I can't find a lot number or date on them and they are in a Cascade Cartridge Inc. box if that says anything. Might should donate these to a museum.


----------



## jaime1982

Wado said:


> No chrono on these, I took a chance. I don't think much more powder will fit and I didn't crimp either. The crimp might hold them enough to get good ignition, you can see the soot all over the one I knocked out. I have four remaining and will pull the bullets and weigh the powder just to see. I weigh every charge twice, once on a beam scale and then on a digital. The primers I used are old, I mean old old. I can't find a lot number or date on them and they are in a Cascade Cartridge Inc. box if that says anything. Might should donate these to a museum.


Wado, big guys is supposed to have some A1680 and i have a few lbs. Would you like me to pick some up for you as opposed to using TB?


----------



## Bird

From my little bit of experience loading subs in a couple different calibers using A1680 and Trailboss here's my 2 cents. I don't think you are getting enough pressure in the case. Since Trailboss granules (donut shaped) are so big compared to A1680 granules you just aren't getting enough powder in the case for consistency. TB is a lot faster powder than A1680 too so it will burn up in the case real quick and not develop enough oomph. The 300blk sub loads are very pressure sensitive so a small change in seating depth or powder charge can make a big difference in consistency. I worked on 3 different powders trying to develop a consistent sub load for my AR.


----------



## ATE_UP_FISHERMAN

Wow This is great info..


----------



## Wado

*Trail Boss Blues*

You guys chew on this a while.
Remington 700 Tactical Rifle
110 grain V Max
5.0 grains TB first target to the left
5.2 the second one 
6.0 the third one
CCI 400 primers ( brand new )
2.080 OAL 
Once fired brass resized with a Lee full length die adjusted to where the die hits the shell holder but does not cam over. I actually don't think the brass was fire formed to my chamber because I could resize them with no lube. I thought 6.0 was the charm until the last two bloopers. I knew trouble was on the way when I bolted the rifle a puff of stinky white smoke came out on round three of the 6.0 grain loads. The brass was sooted up and the next two shots went south. I creeped back to the house and ran a patch through the bore and pushed out a load of charcoal. At least none of them got stuck







. I had a couple of the lighter rounds left but I figured I was pushing my luck and called it quits. On a side note these are the quietest subs I have ever shot if they were reliable it would be nice.
P.S. I did put a light taper crimp on them.


----------



## Chase4556

Wado said:


> Once fired brass resized with a Lee full length die adjusted to where the die hits the shell holder but does not cam over. I actually don't think the brass was fire formed to my chamber because I could resize them with no lube.


If the once fired was with your previous sub loads, odds are there was not enough pressure to form the case to the chamber. You will probably see the same thing if you run the brass from the shots in the photo above.

I know my 223 subs go through the sizing die with no issues, they just dont expand due to the low pressures.


----------



## Chase4556

Also, just wondering. Guess I might have missed the earlier post stating it, but if you are shooting these through a bolt gun, why not use something like lil' gun or h110(if you can find it) with a heavier bullet to make your subsonic loads? It would be much more reliable. A1680 is the go to powder for 300blk subs in an AR, but in a bolt gun, why not use one of the other two? 

I know Big Guys had Lil' Gun in stock per their last inventory email.


----------



## Wado

Chase4556 said:


> Also, just wondering. Guess I might have missed the earlier post stating it, but if you are shooting these through a bolt gun, why not use something like lil' gun or h110(if you can find it) with a heavier bullet to make your subsonic loads? It would be much more reliable. A1680 is the go to powder for 300blk subs in an AR, but in a bolt gun, why not use one of the other two?
> 
> I know Big Guys had Lil' Gun in stock per their last inventory email.


Thanks for replying let me see if I can explain myself. The heavy bullet problem has been solved to some extent. I had to go fooling around with light bullets and since there is so much room left in the case I figured TB would be the magic medicine. It kinda sorta is until the bore gets dirty and you lose your seal and get the bloopers. Secondary explosion effect gives me the willies so I haven't played with any other powders not saying it can't be done I just haven't gone there. As for 1680, it's like bricks of 22's, you better have your hands on some when you see it or it's gone. I have been to Big Guy's it just isn't on my travel route and I have had some offers for some and thanx to the guys that offered some. My AR shoots all my super loads great and I am not really interested in subs through it but it would be neat to have that option. Anyway, that's whats going on. I almost forgot, next time I shoot some supers I will keep the brass separate and neck size a few and load them to see if it helps with the seal with low pressure loads. Can't hurt anything.


----------



## Wado

*http://www.2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/images/smilies/work.gif*

I thought I would wake this thread up, been quiet for a while. So far I have shot three critters with 208 grain sub's. A squirrel, an armadillo and a jack rabbit. When the jack was hit it sounded like somebody kicked a basketball. I have not seen a pig since January, they have completely gone night shift at the ranch and I sleep at night but they have destroyed about twenty acres of my field. The place is so grown up they could be in there I would never see one. I finally got a chronograph so that's the next project. That's it, nothing new.


----------



## Bone Cruncher

Now after you get your brass prepped you should use a Hornady length gauge and measure your breech so you can seat those bullets to the actual length needed for your rifle. By doing this you will have the bullet sitting just in front of the lans, thus making for a perfect fit. Next you need to test loads to see what your gun actually likes, reloading manuals just are a starting point, you should start low and work your way up in 2-3 grain increments until you find the load your rifle likes. I have gone through several powders and charges until I found what my gun liked and what it hated. If you are using a suppressor you will need to test these loads with it on, the harmonics of the rifle change when any device is added to the end of the barrel. I have spent many hours on the range testing the latest and greatest powders and bullets, but that is the price you pay to get super accurate loads.


----------



## jaime1982

Say hello to my new little friend, sent in form 1 in march and apparently approved june. I forgot to follow up, well i called today and yep this one is ready to be put together! One happy mofo here!!








Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk


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## muney pit

Nice. Since getting into the 300 a 8" sbr sure is looking good to me


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## BradV

Cmon muney... Do it!

Stamps took about 9 months on the can (couple years back) and about 5 months on the factory SBR. It's getting faster and faster. Haven't gotten to shoot this one yet.


----------



## muney pit

BradV said:


> Cmon muney... Do it!
> 
> Stamps took about 9 months on the can (couple years back) and about 5 months on the factory SBR. It's getting faster and faster. Haven't gotten to shoot this one yet.


Your twisting my arm , and bring that bad boy over. I'll break it in for yea.


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## muney pit

D.t.


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## BradV

Sounds like a 2cool SBR meet about to happen.. lol I'm game.


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## jaime1982

BradV said:


> Sounds like a 2cool SBR meet about to happen.. lol I'm game.


Heck yea, count me in.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk


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## bearintex

BradV said:


> Sounds like a 2cool SBR meet about to happen.. lol I'm game.





jaime1982 said:


> Heck yea, count me in.


Me too! Got cans as well!


----------



## Wado

*Long Shot*

It's 127 yards to this feeder from my house. I think I could move it to about half that distance and still coax them in. What are you guys zeroing your sub's at?


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## muney pit

Wado said:


> It's 127 yards to this feeder from my house. I think I could move it to about half that distance and still coax them in. What are you guys zeroing your sub's at?


Depends on the scope. I have a vortex pst mil/mil on my 300 now so i could zero at 50/100 and dial my come ups to that 127 and nail the heck out of them. On the other hand if i had a plain duplex id zero for the 127 so you could get on them quicker without the hold over and make better shots


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## muney pit

bearintex said:


> Me too! Got cans as well!


Quote:

Maybe when it cools down we can do that. I only have 100 yards out back but plenty of steel to hit.


----------



## Wado

muney pit said:


> Depends on the scope. I have a vortex pst mil/mil on my 300 now so i could zero at 50/100 and dial my come ups to that 127 and nail the heck out of them. On the other hand if i had a plain duplex id zero for the 127 so you could get on them quicker without the hold over and make better shots


I have two scopes for my bolt rifle, one is a Viper with the mil dot reticle I reserved for supers and a Bushnell 3x9 Illuminated Cross Dot for sub's. I guess if I want the best of both worlds I should buckle the Vortex on and do the dope for both loads and yardage. Might need a notebook to write all this down. I have played with my .22 shooting subs and supers applying hold over with a mil dot scope out to 200 yards. Challenging to say the least. I have a couple of ballistic calculators bookmarked, any favorites?


----------



## muney pit

Wado said:


> I have two scopes for my bolt rifle, one is a Viper with the mil dot reticle I reserved for supers and a Bushnell 3x9 Illuminated Cross Dot for sub's. I guess if I want the best of both worlds I should buckle the Vortex on and do the dope for both loads and yardage. Might need a notebook to write all this down. I have played with my .22 shooting subs and supers applying hold over with a mil dot scope out to 200 yards. Challenging to say the least. I have a couple of ballistic calculators bookmarked, any favorites?


Jbm works good , and there are some good apps. I would just make a dope card with either a 4x6 card or even one in the scope cap if your flip ip. I had this one for years on one of my 308 bolt guns. It was a leupold mark 4 scope so i just made a little card to fit inside the cap. Worked great.


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## jaime1982

Still havent had time to shoot my new 300 BO SBR or decided if its gonna be a super or sub gun. Maybe tues or wed ill try.

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## Bird

The ballistics program I use shows my 220 grain subs best sight in range to be 80 yards. I won't take a shot past 50 with it due to too much energy loss and the fact that I'm shooting a non magnified sight on my AR which isn't helping my aging eyes. My loads for my AR don't shoot well in my bolt gun so its back to the reloading bench when I get some good down time next week.


----------



## BradV

Bird said:


> The ballistics program I use shows my 220 grain subs best sight in range to be 80 yards. I won't take a shot past 50 with it due to too much energy loss and the fact that I'm shooting a non magnified sight on my AR which isn't helping my aging eyes. My loads for my AR don't shoot well in my bolt gun so its back to the reloading bench when I get some good down time next week.


The drop in energy is extremely small. I found my 208gr A-max loads are chronoing at 980fps. This gives 444 Ft lbs. 50 Yards they are moving 968 / 433. 100 yards gives 957 fps and 423 ft lbs. Since they are subsonic to start with there is very minimal loss in velocity and energy. It doesn't even dip below 400 ft lb until 230yds which is WAY further than I would shoot any game with a sub lol. If you are shooting round nose then the BC may be a bit lower and I can see a quicker loss of speed/energy.

85 yard zero for this load would give roughly +/- 2.5" trajectory to 100 yards so I do like your 80 yard zero range. Should work quite well for most applications.


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## jaime1982

Made a small batch of 150 subsonic rounds to try out of the remmy 700 and maybe 50 or so of the 208 Amax to try out of the sbr. Gonna try and make it to the range with wifey tomorrow Am.

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## andre3k

I guess its time I get ramped up for loading 300blk for my remmy 700aac. I ordered a dillon RT1500 and another toolhead for my 650. I'm assuming I cant trim to length in once pass. Anyone ever done this on a Dillon 650?


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## Wado

jaime1982 said:


> Made a small batch of 150 subsonic rounds to try out of the remmy 700 and maybe 50 or so of the 208 Amax to try out of the sbr. Gonna try and make it to the range with wifey tomorrow Am.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk


I am anxious to see what happens. I really want to get some lightweight sub loads to work and I haven't messed with the 110 grain sub's after sticking one in my barrel and the barrel fowling problem I was experiencing with Trail Boss.


----------



## jaime1982

Wado said:


> I am anxious to see what happens. I really want to get some lightweight sub loads to work and I haven't messed with the 110 grain sub's after sticking one in my barrel and the barrel fowling problem I was experiencing with Trail Boss.


Ive already developed and chronod this load Wado and it shoots good, just not meant for a semi auto. Ive shot it with my Cva with success but not my remmy. I dont expect any issues. Im mostly wanting to shoot my sbr tomorrow.

I also posted an extra lb of A1680 for sale, dont remember if it was you that was interested.

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## kscoggins15

Wado said:


> I am anxious to see what happens. I really want to get some lightweight sub loads to work and I haven't messed with the 110 grain sub's after sticking one in my barrel and the barrel fowling problem I was experiencing with Trail Boss.


After looking back on your and another guys experiences with trail boss subs, I believe your issue may have been a compressed load.

From what I have read, trail boss don`t play well compressed and wont burn evenly/completely.

May want to try a lesser charge or lengthen your OAL.

I am getting ready to play with loading some hornady xtp 90gr (30 cal pistol) bullets. Most likely going to try using around 4-5grns of Unique, from what I have read it is as quiet as any bolt gun sub load and expands well at sub velocities.

There are some posts about on 300blktalk.com


----------



## jaime1982

kscoggins15 said:


> After looking back on your and another guys experiences with trail boss subs, I believe your issue may have been a compressed load.
> 
> From what I have read, trail boss don`t play well compressed and wont burn evenly/completely.
> 
> May want to try a lesser charge or lengthen your OAL.
> 
> I am getting ready to play with loading some hornady xtp 90gr (30 cal pistol) bullets. Most likely going to try using around 4-5grns of Unique, from what I have read it is as quiet as any bolt gun sub load and expands well at sub velocities.
> 
> There are some posts about on 300blktalk.com


Please post updates on your developments. Are these the .309 cal that you plan on trying?


----------



## kscoggins15

Yes, the 309 xtp, you can find 100ct box for less than $20. Won't feed from mag from what i have read.

http://www.300blktalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=141&t=96263

http://www.300blktalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=141&t=91549


----------



## jaime1982

kscoggins15 said:


> Yes, the 309 xtp, you can find 100ct box for less than $20. Won't feed from mag from what i have read.
> 
> http://www.300blktalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=141&t=96263
> 
> http://www.300blktalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=141&t=91549


Nice! I might try these, i have 3-300 blackouts and only 1 is an AR so im very open to "non traditional" rounds.


----------



## jaime1982

jaime1982 said:


> Nice! I might try these, i have 3-300 blackouts and only 1 is an AR so im very open to "non traditional" rounds.


Tried to edit but no dice.

After looking at prices the everglade 150s are in fact cheaper than the xtps and ive already developed a load for these pricewise @ 20/100 xtp vs 12/100 everglade.

Anyone want to go 1/2 with me on a 1k order?


----------



## kscoggins15

http://www.slickguns.com/search/apachesolr_search/090255310009?upc_only=1

I was thinking I found them for between $14 and $15 per 100. Those 150gr will have a better bc for longer distance but I mainly want to try these xtp for a short range varmint load. They should expand down to around 850fps which should turn a raccoon or possum inside out.


----------



## jaime1982

kscoggins15 said:


> http://www.slickguns.com/search/apachesolr_search/090255310009?upc_only=1
> 
> I was thinking I found them for between $14 and $15 per 100. Those 150gr will have a better bc for longer distance but I mainly want to try these xtp for a short range varmint load. They should expand down to around 850fps which should turn a raccoon or possum inside out.


No doubt, please keep us updated on how it works out.


----------



## Wado

*90 grain XTP*

Are those .30 Mauser? I saw some at an Academy locally. I have seen a video of a guy shooting them in a 300 Blackout.


----------



## jaime1982

Well, not going to the range today. Wife is being a pain in the *****, yes then no then "lets go watch a movie" or go tomorrow....

I better be nice. I plan on fishin tomorrow.


----------



## Wado

*Power Point Sub*



jaime1982 said:


> Made a small batch of 150 subsonic rounds to try out of the remmy 700 and maybe 50 or so of the 208 Amax to try out of the sbr. Gonna try and make it to the range with wifey tomorrow Am.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk


Fixing to load twenty 150 grain Power Points #WB30PP150.
6.6 Grains of Lil' Gun, lots of space in there.


----------



## jaime1982

Wado said:


> Fixing to load twenty 150 grain Power Points #WB30PP150.
> 6.6 Grains of Lil' Gun, lots of space in there.


Whats the skinny Wado? Im thinking of finally getting out to the range tomorrow to try my new rifle.


----------



## Wado

Spent Saturday putting cabinet pulls on and finishing hooking plumbing up at the ranch. I had high hopes of popping a couple off and maybe busting a nasty pig in the head but my 300 stayed in the barn. We ended up picking up shotgun shells all day Sunday so I guess it will have to wait. I loaded ten rounds with 7.0 grains of Lil' Gun also. I think I got this off of Silencer Talk, the author shot 150's in a Remington like mine and was subsonic. One of these days I will put the battery in my chronograph.


----------



## Wado

*Power Point Sub's*

Dang, over fifteen thousand hits on this thread. The 150's look OK, no world record groups but at least they made it out of the barrel. I had a golden opportunity to deal some pain on a coyote with my .300 but like a dummy grabbed my .22 and ran out the door to try and get a shot, needless to say I missed. I have some pictures but will have to wait until tomorrow.


----------



## Wado

*Load Test*

Like I said, nothing great. I hope these pictures don't give readers the feeling that the 300 Blackout is a dog, a dog with bad breath because it isn't. Keep in mind these are a work in progress and some have claimed a tenth grain really makes a difference in sub loads. These were shot sitting in the front seat of a Polaris with the fore end of my rifle sitting on a bar that runs from one side to the other with a piece of foam insulation on it. No bench, no bags, not even a bipod just like I would have to shoot if I was cruising around in the pasture and surprised a porker. In other words they could be tightened up. I believe the 7.0 grain loads were still subsonic. The gun was sighted in for 100 yards hence the low aim point at 58 yards. Some guessing where to hold was going on there.


----------



## muney pit

Looks about the same as my 147 fmj loads. I just figured they were to light to be sub sonic. Havent gotten around to makeing the super and seeing how they do.


----------



## Wado

*Targets*

I wasn't having much luck shooting from the seat, and the wind was rocking me quite a bit. I used to shoot off of an old picnic table up there but it fell apart this summer. I have shot the Power Points at high velocity with 16.0 of H 110 and some with W296 at 15.7 grains also. Mediocre accuracy and will cycle an AR.


----------



## jaime1982

Over 16k views on this thread WOW!!! Thanks to everyone that has contributed !! 

As for as me, been busy fishin and workin. I hope to finally shoot my new sbr this weekend or next week!


----------



## Bird

Wado, I had similar results with Sierra 220 RN's in my 300blk subs. My AR didn't like them at all even though I didn't have any feeding issues. I picked up a Ruger American Ranch carbine in 300blk that I'm going to re-visit the 220 RN's for it. Interestingly enough, the Ruger didn't really shoot the 220 SMK's that are perfect in my AR. Also because the bolt gun doesn't bleed a little gas the rounds will just barely crack super sonic even though they are sub all the time in the AR. All rounds shot with a can.


----------



## jaime1982

Finally at the range today!


----------



## BradV

What range is that?


----------



## jaime1982

BradV said:


> What range is that?


Texas city municipal, it WINDY but im ready to try my new sbr

Lmao, my sbr rifle doest fit on the rack at the range (too short) 2 guys tried to help me tellinh me the stock extends!


----------



## jaime1982

First pic 208 amax out of my R700
2 other pics are the 150 everglade at 50 yds


----------



## jaime1982

Much better 2nd round of shooting, im waiting for the wind to slow and shooting with both eyes open. These are the 150 everglade subs at 50yds out of my remmy.


----------



## jaime1982

2 groups 208 amax with my new sbr with can on at 50yds.


----------



## jaime1982

This was the 208 amax out of the sbr at 50yds with can on. Center shots were just opening it up. Happy with the rounds but gonna try them with A1680, having cycling issues every few rds. Thats not acceptable.


----------



## mas360

jaime1982 said:


> Much better 2nd round of shooting, im waiting for the wind to slow and shooting with both eyes open. These are the 150 everglade subs at 50yds out of my remmy.
> View attachment 2681522
> View attachment 2681530


That is just as good as 147 FMJ bullets.
How fast did you drive them?
This bullet is sold out on Everglade website.


----------



## jaime1982

mas360 said:


> That is just as good as 147 FMJ bullets.
> How fast did you drive them?
> This bullet is sold out on Everglade website.


Not bad for a cheap plinker! Theyre subsonic in the 1010 fps range, dang are they sold out? I wanted to buy another 1k of them.


----------



## mas360

I guess a bunch of 2coolers rushed out and snapped up all those Everglades bullets after they saw your post..... 

Did you try it at higher velocity....in the 1600 ft/sec neighborhood? I wonder how fast you can drive it before it leads the bore.


----------



## Bird

I finally rolled up some 220 grain round nose sub rounds for my Ruger American Ranch Rifle. 1st group was 11.3 grains of A1680 and 2nd group was 11.5 grains. COAL was 2.100". First group averaged about 900fps and 2nd group about 980fps. I was surprised to see velocities that low since I shoot 220 SMK's over 11.5 grains of A1680 in my AR with a 1040fps avg. My RARR did not like those loads by the way. I would have expected more velocity out of a bolt gun since it doesn't have the gas leak a semi auto has. I'm going to shorten the COAL a few thousandths and try again. Will post details when done


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## jaime1982

Im gonna try loading some of the 208Amax starting @ 11.0grains, 10.8grains and 10.6grains of the A1680 per loads ive read on 300blktalk. 

Im very happy with the 208+Lil gun round in my bolt and single shot, just not happy with the cycling on my SBR. Hoping I have more time to get to the range sooner than later. Im also going to buy some watermelon (dont tell my wife she loves it) and video what the sub rounds (lehigh) do to them @ 50yds. Yea I know same as a .45acp, just alot more fun 

We need to get together and have a 2cool shootout soon!


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## Bird

Hornady book says 10.4gr A1680 = 1000fps-ish while 11.3gr = 1100fps-ish. Loaded to 2.250" COAL with 208 Amax. I think you are close. I'd bet the 11.0gr of A1680 is going to be close to what you want.


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## BradV

I have an 8.3" barrel and if my memory serves me, 11.0gr a1680 ran an average of 980fps with the 208. My rifle did not like feeding well at 2.25, much better luck at 2.18 in my case.


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## Bird

*Still can't find the right load*

Went to the range today to chrono some more 220 RN subs in my Ruger American 300blk. Same powder charge as I shot a few days ago(11.3/11.5 grain A1680) but seated the bullet .007" deeper (case neck just even with bottom of cannelure on bullet). No real change on the 11.3 and very inconsistent with the 11.5. I'm going to seat next batch back at 2.100" and increase powder charge.

I'm a little baffled why my AR shoots 11.5gr A1680 with 220 SMK and my RARR doesn't. Same load is 100fps-ish slower, on avg, in the RARR vs the AR and all over the target. With all the gas going down the barrel through the can I thought the bolt gun would show faster velocities than the gas gun. Only think I can figure is that the AR has a 1:8 barrel and the RARR has a 1:7. What say you 2cool bullet chunkers?


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## jaime1982

Looks like we might be able to shoot the 125 sst at something this weekend. Ill keep everyone updated.


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## muney pit

Bird said:


> Went to the range today to chrono some more 220 RN subs in my Ruger American 300blk. Same powder charge as I shot a few days ago(11.3/11.5 grain A1680) but seated the bullet .007" deeper (case neck just even with bottom of cannelure on bullet). No real change on the 11.3 and very inconsistent with the 11.5. I'm going to seat next batch back at 2.100" and increase powder charge.
> 
> I'm a little baffled why my AR shoots 11.5gr A1680 with 220 SMK and my RARR doesn't. Same load is 100fps-ish slower, on avg, in the RARR vs the AR and all over the target. With all the gas going down the barrel through the can I thought the bolt gun would show faster velocities than the gas gun. Only think I can figure is that the AR has a 1:8 barrel and the RARR has a 1:7. What say you 2cool bullet chunkers?


Curios as to what your ES and SD's were? Did you even run a ladder test on the bolt gun or change the weights even more?


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## jaime1982

Took my sons rifle out to double check 0 at 100 yds. Id say were good to go. Hope we can connect with a BB for him.


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## Bird

muney pit said:


> Curios as to what your ES and SD's were? Did you even run a ladder test on the bolt gun or change the weights even more?


I have the ES and SD of the loads in my reloading notebook. If I remember the SD's were between 25 and 30. My goal is to shoot the 220's for hunting (and I have a lot of them) so I'll keep working on it. Haven't messed with the load lately, but intend to work on it a little this weekend.


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## jaime1982

The 125 sst is a great kido hunting round. My son popped this little guy from 120ish yds. DRT!









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## jaime1982

Pretty good damage to a blackbuck shoulder today.















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## jaime1982

Pic 2















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## muney pit

Thats the 125sst you were talking about? Whats the fps on them?


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## jaime1982

muney pit said:


> Thats the 125sst you were talking about? Whats the fps on them?


Yep, im really liking what i saw from them today. I think these were the 17.5 grain ones, 2100 fps.

Great penetration and expansion, virtually no recoil.

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## muney pit

jaime1982 said:


> Yep, im really liking what i saw from them today. I think these were the 17.5 grain ones, 2100 fps.
> 
> Great penetration and expansion, virtually no recoil.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk


Awesome, thanks for the info


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## Wado

*Superlight Sub*

I read a little bit about using some 30 caliber pistol projectiles for Blackout Sub's and Academy had these on closeout. Don't guess there are too many .30 Mauser loaders out there. I would have bought more but one box was it and at nine bucks I figured what the heck. I dumped 5 grains of Trailboss into a couple of cases with magnum primers and poked these little feller's in and went to the dirt pile and popped a stack of phone books from about 15 yards. They made it to the second fat book and blew up totally. Sounded like a 22 short and I heard a pretty good crack-echo off of my neighbors barn about 75 yards away with my suppressor attached. Recoil, what recoil? A half grain might alleviate that sound. If they shoot inside 2 inches at 100 yards they might make a varmint round that has some graphic effects. We shall see.


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## jaime1982

Decided to make the sbr into a small/med game rifle. Took her to the range today and either going 125sst or barnes110 ttsx.


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## Wado

*Chasing Rainbows*

Well, I drug the 300 BO out this past week and swabbed the barrel out and made up some new loads to see if I could duplicate the results of another shooter of the famous 300BO. The bullets are 175 grain Sierra Match Kings hollow points pushed with 16 grains of I4227. I used converted Remington .223 brass with Remington 7 1/2 Bench Rest primers and the other shooter used Lapua brass and CCI 450's. He fired his through a Surgeon action with a Bartlein 1 in 8 twist barrel stocked in thumbhole chassis of some kind that cost as much as my entire rifle scope and all I am sure. On top was a Tangent Theta scope ( Mucho Dinero ) to see where the boolits hit. My rifle is a bone stock Remmy 700 with a Vortex scope and the recalled trigger they put in it. Hit the range and got sighted in at fifty yards first and after shooting some of my other super's decided to burn some of the SMK's. I only loaded twenty so I did a little adjusting on the scope with two shots and cranked off a three shot group, at fifty yards. Shazaam, looked just like this dude's groups only his was at a hundred. No problem for Wado, I need the exercise so lets go to a hundred and get this over with. Well, it was over with. I had four out of a five shot group going to 3/4 inch and slung a flier that I blamed on my bipod that turned it into two inches. I took it off and used bags and shot another five. Couldn't get it going on that one either. Got two side by side and another two then the flyer. Maybe I should only shoot three? Anyway, that's my first SMK load but I haven't given up. Think I will drop the charge a little or set them closer to the riflings. I had a .035 jump and the other guys load was .015. Before anybody says anything I didn't expect to exactly duplicate and realistically the groups I shot weren't too bad for my rifle and me as a shooter, just saying. I also tried his sub load of 10.5 grains of 4227 seated the same length and I had bad accuracy even at fifty yards. I shot a five shot group of my 208 grain A Max loads and dropped them all inside two inches at 100 yards after I put my Pig hunting scope back on. I did order a Timney trigger for my Remmy so look out bug holes. :dance:


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## jaime1982

Funny, I was hoping to update this thread with a pig kill. I went to camp on Monday but didn't see any. Saw some wt and an audad but I felt a little undergunned with the 300.

He gave me a good 5 mins to think about it but I let him go. Not sure the 125sst had enough to knock his but down and me not have to go looking for him.









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## Wado

jaime1982 said:


> Funny, I was hoping to update this thread with a pig kill. I went to camp on Monday but didn't see any. Saw some wt and an audad but I felt a little undergunned with the 300.
> 
> He gave me a good 5 mins to think about it but I let him go. Not sure the 125sst had enough to knock his but down and me not have to go looking for him.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


The last live thing I shot with my BO was a coyote at a ridiculous range, with a subsonic. Hit it twice as a matter of fact but one was a ricochet I believe. I saw dirt fly then it looked like blood flew out of its mouth and it fell back on its haunches and sat there. We never went looking for the dang thing either. Don't know what a 125 grainer would do to a big old tough mountain goat. A friend of mine plowed one with a fifty caliber black powder gun one time and walked up on it and got in a wrestling match. They must be pretty tough. I am going to load some more Match Kings with the same load and get a better set up this time. That fifty yard group is haunting me. I wasn't doing too good a job "driving" my Remmy that day. I got my little Savage 22 out and shot a 2" group at 100 the same day which is pretty darn good for that rifle. It took six different brands of ammo to do it too. Going to try some subs with 1680 and the Match Kings as well. I also heard a nasty rumor Remington turned loose some barrels marked one in seven twist that were actually one in ten, anybody hear or see anything like that?


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## TxChamp08

Got the drop on this guy the other day. 300 Blk 8" SBR with Can shooting Rem 220 subs. Luckily shot was sub 50 yards, dropped in it's spot. Rough score was 168"

Wish I had the time/skill to load some better ammo.


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## jaime1982

TxChamp08 said:


> Got the drop on this guy the other day. 300 Blk 8" SBR with Can shooting Rem 220 subs. Luckily shot was sub 50 yards, dropped in it's spot. Rough score was 168"
> 
> Wish I had the time/skill to load some better ammo.


Impressive! Congrats on the Great axis.

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## Bird

That's a stud. Great shot for a DRT with 300blk subs. I have not had good luck with 220 subs from my 300blk.


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## jaime1982

Taking the 300 out next weekend, hope to update with a kill report.

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## Chase4556

Picked up my suppressor yesterday. Threw it on my 16" 300blk AR, and shooting factory American eagle and Remington 220 subs, its supersonic. Guess it's time to buy some brass and crack open that 1680 and come up with a load. Seems the 220 SMKs have a pretty good track record of shooting well. Might start there.


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