# 223 powders



## larrymac1 (Dec 8, 2011)

What does everyone recommend for 223 powder? 
Which ones are not the best.

I have loaded 223 with various grain bullets with a wide variety of powders, but I know there is a bunch I have not tried yet. What I have used are:
IMR 4198
Varget
H 4198
H 4895
H 8208

Just recently purchased H335 and TAC, and I am loading the TAC now w/55 grain SP. The H 335 will be with 50 grain SP,

Overall shootability the IMR 4198 and H 4198 seem to be really consistent, but I am always looking for something better, cleaner, more consistent.

I have seen some bulk government .223 powders recently advertised for $85 for 8 pounds. It sold out quickly so it leaves me thinking it was a good powder. 

I welcome any and all thoughts.

:texasflag


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## Samson (Aug 21, 2007)

You could try the Alliant powders, Reloader 7, Reloader 10X and Reloader 15. RL15 shines well with the bullets 55gr and up while 10X and RL7 are better with the 55gr and under. If you want to stick with the Hodgdon powders you can try H335 and H322, as well as BLC-2 and Benchmark. The government powder your talking about is either WC 844 or WC 846 most likely. 844 is the military version of H335 while 846 is more like BLC-2 and Win 748. You might have a hard time getting consistant results with these powders as they are blended pull down powders mixed from various lots of ammunition. Great for plinking but not so much for extreme accuracy. Always re-work up your loads using the pulldowns as every jug is different.


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## Texas T (May 21, 2004)

It sounds like you are talking about using a AR platform. I get my best results with H322 or H335. RE7 does well too.

In bolt gun H4895 works well


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## Bantam1 (Jun 26, 2007)

I use Varget for my 75 grain loads. I recently started playing with the IMR 8208(?) XBR. So far I really like it and it might replace Varget. I have only tested it with 75 grain and some 50 grain VMAX I had. The velocity was not great for the lighter bullets, but man it turned out some accurate groups. 

I have used N-135, Win 748, H 4895, R-15 and a few others. I'm still searching for the perfect powder too. I still need to try H-335 and some others. Right now I'm using Win 748 for my bulk 55 grain loads. It works and its cheap. Once my 8 pound jug is gone I'll look for something new. I'm still trying to refine the N-135 loads. I just can't seem to get the velocity I think a 55-60 grain VMAX should be hitting with my AR. I set it to the side for now and plan on trying again later. 

There are some new powders out there too all aimed at the AR crowd. I have not tried any of them yet. I wish you could get 1/2 pound containers for testing.


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## larrymac1 (Dec 8, 2011)

One thing I have noticed with the powders I have used is they are generally all stick powder. TAC is flake, and yes I was aiming at the AR crowd, but would take other recommendations as well. 

Bantam1 only problem with 1/2 pound containers is you get approximately 141 reloads on that limited amount. When I take the AR to the range I generally shoot almost that much. I love plinking.


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## Bantam1 (Jun 26, 2007)

True but when I am testing new loads/powders I am not loading 140 rounds. I may load 50 max with different charges to check groups and velocity.


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## larrymac1 (Dec 8, 2011)

I'm old and shaky so it takes a few more loads for me to say, 'Well that's no good.'


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## larrymac1 (Dec 8, 2011)

Texas T said:


> It sounds like you are talking about using a AR platform. I get my best results with H322 or H335. RE7 does well too.
> 
> In bolt gun H4895 works well


I like the 4895 when I am loading 60 grain and up. It seems to work really well. But I save those for the field or when the zombies attack.:spineyes:


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## Bantam1 (Jun 26, 2007)

larrymac1 said:


> I'm old and shaky so it takes a few more loads for me to say, 'Well that's no good.'


Hahaha I hear you. I'm still young at 35 but I have my moments. I shoot from a bench with a bipod and a rear rest. It keeps the rifle nice and stable.


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## larrymac1 (Dec 8, 2011)

I like the thought of a bi-pod, but not sure one would be right for me. On a bench OK. If I have to get on the ground to use it, it would take two extra people to help me get up again.


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## Bantam1 (Jun 26, 2007)

There are all sorts of rest options that you can use. Some are sand filled, others are adjustable with a heavy base. I'm sure you can find something that will work for you.


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## coxhaus (Mar 4, 2008)

I have had my best luck with H335 and Varget with 55 gr bullets. I shoot them in a Colt AR15 target rifle and a 24" heavy barrel with a 1 and 9 twist.


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## larrymac1 (Dec 8, 2011)

coxhaus said:


> I have had my best luck with H335 and Varget with 55 gr bullets. I shoot them in a Colt AR15 target rifle and a 24" heavy barrel with a 1 and 9 twist.


I just bought a pound of that (H355)and a pound of TAC. I am loading the TAC first, but it is nice to see a recommendation.:cheers:


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## CDHknives (Mar 17, 2012)

Each rifle is an individual, but lots of people have good luck with Varget, including me:










I'm still working up loads for this rifle but it loves 55 grain bullets (Nosler BT's here but generic FMJ is easily still MOA) and Varget. 62 grain matchkings are not impressive so far. SS109 bullets just stink for accuracy, but still run about MOA with this rifle when I don't flinch...

IMR 4895 and H335 worked just okay with those 2 bullet weights.

Rock River Predator Pursuit 20" upper, 1:8 twist, FWIW.


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## Ernest (May 21, 2004)

My results: 

68/69's - Varget

60's - H335

55's - N135. 

Each will generally shoot less than .5 MOA five shot groups at 200 yards off the bench.


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## 223AI (May 7, 2012)

80gr JLK - Varget and or 8208xbr.
75 AMAX - Varget or TAC or 8208


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## larrymac1 (Dec 8, 2011)

Ernest said:


> My results:
> 
> 68/69's - Varget
> 
> ...


200 yards? I am very impressed. I can't even see the target at 200 yards much less get .5 groups. Awesome shooting. I have an Aimsport scope on my S&W MP 16 with 1 in 8 twist. It is the cheapie but it shoots really well for someone who can hold her steady. At 100 yards I am happy with staying in a 6" circle.

One thing I have discovered is that shooting heavier grain bullets tend to pound on my shoulder more. No where near .270 pounding but still some pretty good whacks.


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## Bantam1 (Jun 26, 2007)

The recoil shouldn't be worse with a heavier bullet. It could just be a hotter load. 

Are you running an A2 type stock (rifle) or a telescopic style? You might need a heavier buffer if you have the telescopic stock. Most factory rifles come with the carbine buffer which is much lighter than the rifle buffer. It should help reduce some of the recoil and still function.


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## Ernest (May 21, 2004)

You shouldn't be. I'm shooting match target competition HBars and P-Dog style AR's with 20x scopes. So, the weapons will shoot tighter than .5 MOA at 200 with good ammo.


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## nasakid (May 21, 2004)

Just about every match shooter I know uses Varget. I use 26.5gr for 55gr FMJs.


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## larrymac1 (Dec 8, 2011)

Bantam1 said:


> The recoil shouldn't be worse with a heavier bullet. It could just be a hotter load.
> 
> Are you running an A2 type stock (rifle) or a telescopic style? You might need a heavier buffer if you have the telescopic stock. Most factory rifles come with the carbine buffer which is much lighter than the rifle buffer. It should help reduce some of the recoil and still function.


It is funny that I had not noticed it before, but weekend before last I started with 70 grain HP stuff. Loaded with 8208 probably 20.4 grains (can't remember exactly, I have it written down at home) I fired 50 rounds or so and then switched to the 55 grain sp 8208 at 24.0 and it was extremely noticible going up to down. The other way down to up I probably hadn't noticed before.


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## larrymac1 (Dec 8, 2011)

Ernest said:


> You shouldn't be. I'm shooting match target competition HBars and P-Dog style AR's with 20x scopes. So, the weapons will shoot tighter than .5 MOA at 200 with good ammo.


There's the rub. I just have about a 10x cross hair scope with multi-colors. I like the scope a lot but it is way too weak for 200 yards and keeping on the exact same spot on target. I do use sandbags and that helps, but vision (mine) is the issue. I wear trifocals now and it really effects my pistol shooting. I am going for new glasses soon and will get some shooters glasses. A bifocal with a high split line so I won't have to deal with so much head tilt.:spineyes:


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## larrymac1 (Dec 8, 2011)

If it helps anyone here is a list of powders used and recommended for .223 reloading use.

Xterminator
Benchmark
TAC
Titegroup
CFE 223
AR 2206
Accelerate 2230
" 2520
" 2460
N 133
N 135
Reloader 7
" 10x
" 15 
BLC 2
Win 748
H 322
Varget
IMR 4320
IMR 4064
IMR 8208
IMR 3031
4198 both IMR and H
4895 both IMR and H

If I missed any let me know. That should however be an ample supply to try out.`


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## Pocketfisherman (May 30, 2005)

Saw a recent review of the CFE (Copper Fouling Eraser) powder in a test with several other powders. It proved to be extremely accurate besting several other popular 223 powders. And, the copper fouling removal properties were tested and proved true. Not only did it prevent copper fouling in a clean bore, but shooting a 100 rounds through a copper fouled bore removed most of that fouling too. The article had bore scope photos and load data. I wish I could remember where I saw it, I know it was one of last month's gun magazines, maybe handloader but not sure.


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## Bantam1 (Jun 26, 2007)

They made this powder for the competition guys that are shooting a lot of rounds. This is on my list for powders to try. I read good reviews so far. If you find that article post where. I would like to read it.


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## larrymac1 (Dec 8, 2011)

larrymac1 said:


> If it helps anyone here is a list of powders used and recommended for .223 reloading use.
> 
> Xterminator
> Benchmark
> ...


Please eliminate Titegroup from the list. It is a pistol powder. Not sure how I picked that up.


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## Ernest (May 21, 2004)

H335- a great .223 powder.


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## larrymac1 (Dec 8, 2011)

New list. Dug out the prices yesterday as well for 1lb and up. Most were priced at Midway prices.
1 lb 5lb 8lb
Xterminator 16.99 120.99
Benchmark 24.49 163.99 
TAC 21.49 139.99 
CFE 223 21.99 8lb is not on the market yet.
AR 2206 22.99 169.99
Accurate 2230 19.79 137.99
" 2520 19.79 137.99 
" 2460 19.79 137.99
N 133 31.99 212.99 
N 135 33.49 212.99
Reloader 7 18.49 131.99 
" 10x 21.99 96.99 
" 15 21.99 96.99 
BLC 2 20.00 145.95 
Win 748 21.19 163.99 
H 322 23.99 164.99 
H 335 21.49 148.99 
Varget 24.49 163.99 
IMR 4320 23.99 157.99
IMR 4064 24.49 161.99
IMR 8208 23.49 158.99
IMR 3031 24.49 157.99 
IMR 4198 23.99 157.99
H 4198 22.99 149.99 
IMR 4895 24.49 161.99
H 4895 22.99 149.99

Prices subjet to change.


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## Bone Cruncher (May 22, 2006)

*Imr 8208*



Bantam1 said:


> I use Varget for my 75 grain loads. I recently started playing with the IMR 8208(?) XBR. So far I really like it and it might replace Varget. I have only tested it with 75 grain and some 50 grain VMAX I had. The velocity was not great for the lighter bullets, but man it turned out some accurate groups.
> 
> I have used N-135, Win 748, H 4895, R-15 and a few others. I'm still searching for the perfect powder too. I still need to try H-335 and some others. Right now I'm using Win 748 for my bulk 55 grain loads. It works and its cheap. Once my 8 pound jug is gone I'll look for something new. I'm still trying to refine the N-135 loads. I just can't seem to get the velocity I think a 55-60 grain VMAX should be hitting with my AR. I set it to the side for now and plan on trying again later.
> 
> There are some new powders out there too all aimed at the AR crowd. I have not tried any of them yet. I wish you could get 1/2 pound containers for testing.


The IMR 8208 XBR is an excellent powder, I use it when loading Barnes 50 grain Varmint Grenades. These bullets are designed to expand rapidly and they do that very well. I am using an AR platform with Les Baer upper and Zeiss Conquest varmint scope. The print is less than half inch at 100 yards for a 5 shot group, that is impressive. We have put over 500 rounds on two guns using 27 grains of powder. We were ground squirrel hunting this last Saturday and I drilled one at 508 yards. There were many taken at distances between 200 and 350 yards, I never thought semi autos could be so accurate. Give this load a try and see how it works for you.


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## Bantam1 (Jun 26, 2007)

What case and primer are you using? I have been playing with the 50 grain VMAX and had some great groups, just not the velocity I expected. I think this powder is good and can't wait to unlock the full potential.


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## westexhunt (Apr 29, 2012)

For simplicity's sake I have switched to TAC for 223 and 308 with good results. I don't load anything in 223 under 62grs. I have been getting good accuracy in every load I have tried and it dumps great. I loaded every powder I could get my hands on at one time or another and H335 and Varget were always good for my 223's. I have been told that TAC has some of the self cleaning abilities too but don't know for sure. It shoots clean except in my gas AR's when I am running a can, then nothing is clean.


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## King Fisher (Aug 10, 2005)

I have had the best accuracy and consistent velocity with WW 748. I too use an AR platform and have had sub .5 MOA at 100 meters shooting off the bench with a 3x9 scope.


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