# Trip to Cedar Bayou yesterday



## Redfish Rick

I made a trip to Cedar Bayou yesterday 4/13/2014. I wanted to check things out before dredging got started, and see just how bad it has sanded in in the last year. I haven't been there in 2 years in my own boat, and wanted to see how far I could get towards the surf before it got to shallow to float my 23' Shoalcat (floats in 8" of water).

Coming in from Mesquite bay is fairly shallow, with the waters at the bay entrance only 2-3' deep. As soon as you enter the bayou, it drops off to 5-6' for most of the run towards the surf. Within 1 1/2 miles of the surf, the bayou gets really shallow with sandbars now extending almost the entire width of the bayou. We made it to the camp on the island side, where surveyors had set up to offload equipment and atv's for placing survey markers in the planned dredge area. The entire area from where the bayou shallows all the way to the gulf had been well marked for the dredge. Most of this area is 100% dry land right now with most being 3-4' above sea level, with vegetation over many areas. Dredging here and into Vinson Slough is going to be monumental task. 

We were able to get the boat about 300 yards past the surveyors camp, where the bayou just abruptly stopped from recent sand washover. (See pics below) From there, it was at least a 1/2 mile walk to where the old TPWD signs and cable were. From where the old TPWD signs were it was another 1/4 mile to the surf, following the bayou's original channel, where it connected with Vinson. There was a distinct dune line all the way down the beach in front of where the old channel entered the gulf. Dredging here is going to be tough, as evidenced by severe washover from the dunes into the channel during high tide events. Once the bayou is open, I'm sure that tidal scouring will take care of this issue.

From the last I heard, per the permit, dredging was scheduled to begin on April 15. As of April 13, there was NO heavy equipment in the area or the ICW on the way to Mesquite bay. The only signs of activity were a few primitive ATV trails left by the surveyors. No whooping cranes were observed in the area, as most are a little further north now, along the ICW, staging for their trip to Canada.

Dredging needs to commence on this project ASAP, and I would have thought that more assets would be in the area as of April 13. This is going to be a BIG task, but it will benefit the entire coastal bend area when complete. I'm ready to see the "sand flying" lol.

Also, there is a TON of oil/tar on the beach of Matagorda island from the recent oil spill in Galveston. 20' strip of sand plus lots of vegetation were covered with tar and oil as far as you could see along the beach. Nasty stuff, wish I would have brought some turpentine/baby oil with me.

Pics below show the last area in the bayou with at least 1 foot of water, almost 3/4 mile from the gulf. Oil/tar ball pics in other photo.

Capt. Rick Hammond


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## johndoughy

If my sources are reliable, they are waiting for certain migratory birds to buzz off to get started.


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## Im Headed South

Contractor could not bring in heavy equipment until the 15th (per permit) which is tomorrow, they plan to start barging the equipment over tomorrow from where it's staged. Contractor expects a few days of mobilization and lay out then they'll have the holiday weekend this weekend but plan to be up and running wide open moving sand by Monday morning. They expect the project to take them 5 months to complete which could have been cut down quite a bit but the Feds will not let them do any work at night due to the possibility of turtles being in the area during the spring and summer. The project is as much a dirt job as as dredging job especially for the first few months. I'll have some pics from the next couple of days I hope and plan to visit the site a few times throughout the project. As far as the oil there are clean up crews working their way south on matty island cleaning it up as they go, heard reports of dozens of dump trucks being out there this last weekend.


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## Redfish Rick

Good to hear... I will probably be out there sometime during the week after Easter, to see whats happening. Saw some dredge equipment staged near Conn Brown this weekend, was hoping this was headed to Cedar Bayou. Plenty of dirt to move before dredging even starts....

Keep us updated, "im headed South". Thanks.


Capt. Rick Hammond


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## RubiconAg

Greenies to you for the report and fighting the wind to get it


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## Im Headed South

Here's a before picture for you, this was taken about 6 weeks ago. Can't wait to post the after one from this view point.


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## Copano/Aransas

Cool pic, can't wait for dirt to start being moved. Hope to make it over there also to see progress. Looks like theres a few 2cooler's that will be covering the progress of CB.


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## aguaflaca

thanks for the report. 
I drive by the contractors (RLB Contracting) office in Port Lavaca every day on way to/from work. They had a lot of equipment staged yesterday and it was all gone today.


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## Spots and Dots

Where is Cedar Bayou exactly?
I've not looked at a map to see.

No doubt a good move by CCA and everyone involved. It should really improve the resource!


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## Agwader

Great update guys, keep'em coming. Thanks


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## WillieT

Im Headed South said:


> Here's a before picture for you, this was taken about 6 weeks ago. Can't wait to post the after one from this view point.


Great pic. Looks like it would have been a good day to be in the surf, very flat, or at least it looked that way.


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## Im Headed South

Southern end of Mesquite Bay, when open it separates the islands of St. Joe and Matagorda.


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## allrockport

Are they going to start in the gulf or bay?


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## Saltstalker

Very interesting Rick , Thank you !


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## SPOT-CHASER3

Rick

Please keep us updated,

Great information for those of us not in Rockport full time


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## Spots and Dots

Is this Cedar Bayou?


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## daniel7930

Spots and Dots said:


> Is this Cedar Bayou?


Yes sir. That's the place

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## JFolm

This was naturally open and then someone decided to close it right?


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## Spots and Dots

What's the little slough just to the west of Cedar Bayou's gulf area? Vinson Slough?

Is that going to be opened too? Seems like a bunch of good marsh on that side.


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## daniel7930

Yes sir that is Vinson slough. And it will be open as well 


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## Im Headed South

Most all of the answers to everyone's questions can be found on the site below.

http://www.restorecedarbayou.org/the-plan/


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## cottonpicker

Mam o man it is going to be crowded down there come Fall of '14. I hope more people than normal go deer hunting this year. Hehehe!


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## Brandon1107

Anyone head out there in the last day or so?
Thanks,
B


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## justletmein

cottonpicker said:


> Mam o man it is going to be crowded down there come Fall of '14. I hope more people than normal go deer hunting this year. Hehehe!


That's what I'm thinking. Probly be a great place to fish... in 5 years or so when the crowds die down LOL.


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## sotol buster

If a private citizen would have taken a backhoe and dug a trench from the gulf to the end of the bayou what would have happened? Would it get bigger and bigger as the tides change back and forth or would it sand in and close up?


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## Im Headed South

Brandon1107 said:


> Anyone head out there in the last day or so?
> Thanks,
> B


We went the other direction this morning, but I had a buddy over that way yesterday and saw a dredge deck moored somewhere out there and a work boat up in the bayou.


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## Justin_Time

What's up, Capt. Rick?! I'll be down in POC Memorial Day weekend. I'll give you a ring. You need to come hang out if you aren't running any trips!

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## Lunkerman

sotol buster said:


> If a private citizen would have taken a backhoe and dug a trench from the gulf to the end of the bayou what would have happened? Would it get bigger and bigger as the tides change back and forth or would it sand in and close up?


It would be filled back with sand in no time.


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## Im Headed South

Barge taking some equipment up the bayou earlier today.


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## RubiconAg

Whoop!


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## Bocephus

Are they going to build jettys on the gulf side ?....if not how long before it fills with sand again ?


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## bigfishtx

I would ask what is going to keep it open this time? I know it has been dredged twice that I know of in my lifetime and it started filling back in almost immediately both times.


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## Spots and Dots

bigfishtx said:


> I would ask what is going to keep it open this time? I know it has been dredged twice that I know of in my lifetime and it started filling back in almost immediately both times.


this time, there was alot more research and engineering into the dredging. That and the opening of Vinsons Slough is supposed to create more water flow, thus 'flushing' the bayou with each tide.

With all the money and agencys involved, i suspect they have a decent handle on it. Of course, governemtn is still involved so who really knows......


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## southpaw

> this time, there was alot more research and engineering into the dredging. That and the opening of Vinsons Slough is supposed to create more water flow, thus 'flushing' the bayou with each tide.


You are correct. From what I understand, the opening of Vinson's Slough will create hydraulic conductivity which will help to prevent sediment from filling it in quickly like it has in the past. I've heard they're dredging it deeper as well. I think they're going to construct rock groins/ jetties too, which should help.

Every channel has to be dredged every few years though just as maintenance. Even the Port A channel is dedged every now and then. It's just maintenance. I haven't been keeping up with it as much as I should, but I believe part of the money raised for the opening also went into a long term maintenance dredging plan.


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## Bocephus

southpaw said:


> You are correct. From what I understand, the opening of Vinson's Slough will create hydraulic conductivity which will help to prevent sediment from filling it in quickly like it has in the past. I've heard they're dredging it deeper as well. I think they're going to construct rock groins/ jetties too, which should help.
> 
> Every channel has to be dredged every few years though just as maintenance. Even the Port A channel is dedged every now and then. It's just maintenance. I haven't been keeping up with it as much as I should, but I believe part of the money raised for the opening also went into a long term maintenance dredging plan.


True about all channels needing dredging, even the Houston Ship Channel is constantly being dredged. If the State will commit to the occasional dredging of Cedar Bayou/Vinson's Slough that will insure they stay open.


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## southpaw

Bocephus said:


> True about all channels needing dredging, even the Houston Ship Channel is constantly being dredged. If the State will commit to the occasional dredging of Cedar Bayou/Vinson's Slough that will insure they stay open.


I know they put a petition in to the state for funding to dredge it but I'm not sure if it got passed or not. Does anybody know if it did?


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## chicapesca

Bocephus said:


> True about all channels needing dredging, even the Houston Ship Channel is constantly being dredged. If the State will commit to the occasional dredging of Cedar Bayou/Vinson's Slough that will insure they stay open.


I believe Judge Mills and the county have a tax set in place to cover the maintenance of CB/VS. It may even be required of them to do so.


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## Im Headed South

Aransas County has pledged a minimum of 100k per year of hotel/motel taxes to be put in a maintenance dredging fund for when that time comes. No one know exactly because Vinson has never dredged out since it was filled in for the oil spill but the engineer's estimates I've heard believe it will be 8 to 10 years before that need may arise. A maintenance dredging is a much much smaller project than what's being done here.


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## johndoughy

There was a pretty swell anonymous snowbird who wrote a check for $100k this past winter, and they put it into the "maintenance fund", so there is a portion of costs set aside to keep it open. 

THATS what will really keep it open--a commitment to paying to maintain it until it is back on its feet, if it ever gets there.


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## Redfish Rick

*The sand is flying at Cedar Bayou*

I made a trip to Cedar Bayou yesterday, in between fishing spots. They were moving heavy equipment up the canal, plenty of excavators and bulldozers. To get the equipment to the landing, they were excavating the center of the channel by barge. A small dredge was parked off to the side near the midpoint of the channel. Lots of work to be done, and it looks like things are gonna be moving slow until they can get a temporary channel dug to the landing area.

Rick


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## Agwader

Sweet, thanks for the update Rick.


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## johndoughy

Man rick, this is awesome of you to do. Keep it up and I'll owe you a dinner or something. If I had a boat and a house on the bay, I'd putt putt over there every couple days and watch. This is a really cool thing.


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## bigfishtx

Any estimates when this project will be complete?


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## Smackdaddy53

bigfishtx said:


> Any estimates when this project will be complete?


They had a hard enough time getting started, there is no telling!


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## Trouthunter

Thanks for keeping us updated Rick...kudos.

TH


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## Im Headed South

Have to be done by Oct 15 per permit, contractor estimates its going to take them about 5 months.


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## Im Headed South

About to get serious out there


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## aguaflaca

thanks guys, keep the updates and pictures coming.


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## Aggieangler

I used to catch some great fish in Cedar Bayou. I am really glad to see the efforts of CCA and others paying off to get it opened. Hopefully we can keep it that way for many many years to come.

Thanks for the pics and updates fellas.


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## Tight Knot

Great to see things are moving along. Thanks for the updates Rick and Mike!


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## SSST

Aggieangler said:


> I used to catch some great fish in Cedar Bayou. I am really glad to see the efforts of CCA and others paying off to get it opened. Hopefully we can keep it that way for many many years to come.
> 
> Thanks for the pics and updates fellas.


X2, Cedar Bayou was always a good place to go when the wind was howling, it was always nice and calm and you would actually catch a few fish to boot. Now the ride across Mesquite was a b***h at times.


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## rvd

Anybody make it out that way this weekend?


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## Im Headed South

rvd said:


> Anybody make it out that way this weekend?


They are welding up the dredge pipe and slowly working the barges of equipment back to the construction area, they are basically having to dig themselves back due to the south end being so silted in and the draft of the barges. Pics from today to follow a little later tonight.


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## Copano/Aransas

Im Headed South said:


> They are welding up the dredge pipe and slowly working the barges of equipment back to the construction area, they are basically having to dig themselves back due to the south end being so silted in and the draft of the barges. Pics from today to follow a little later tonight.


Can't wait to see em.


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## TKoenig

we need the cca to go down there and set up a couple of live feed cameras.. now that would be awesome.


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## aguaflaca

TKoenig said:


> we need the cca to go down there and set up a couple of live feed cameras.. now that would be awesome.


that would be cool.


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## Im Headed South

4-28-14 :cheers:


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## aguaflaca

great pictures. thanks again. looks like RLB has it under control.


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## misscoley

Awesome!! Thank you for the update.


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## Copano/Aransas

Cool pic's, pretty close or a good zoom. Man those loaders are reaching down deep.


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## Copano/Aransas

Looks like there at the first island in the middle of the Bayou, could someone confirm that ?


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## Im Headed South

Both, pretty close and a good zoom. Spoke with one of the guys on the work boats so we were that close lol. Last pic of the barges with the majority of equipment on them is located on the Mesquite end of the cut and waiting until they can get it all the way to the work zone. The dredge and the barge with the trac hoe that's digging it's way south is down near the last bend to right when heading south. Hope to be down onsite a little later in the week when the dredge starts spitting sand out the other end, can't wait.


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## Copano/Aransas

Im Headed South said:


> Both, pretty close and a good zoom. Spoke with one of the guys on the work boats so we were that close lol. Last pic of the barges with the majority of equipment on them is located on the Mesquite end of the cut and waiting until they can get it all the way to the work zone. The dredge and the barge with the trac hoe that's digging it's way south is down near the last bend to right when heading south. Hope to be down onsite a little later in the week when the dredge starts spitting sand out the other end, can't wait.


Thanks can't wait to see it.


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## FISHROADIE

Great pictures thanks for sharing. Thats some equipment, it looks like the are serious.


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## Im Headed South

Yea the business end of the dredge looks like it could do some damage.


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## rvd

Thanks for the update and the pics!


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## Waymore

Man I hope to fish Cedar Bayou a few more times..


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## redfish bayrat

*spoil*

Once they start pumping the dredge material out, where is it going to be placed?


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## Gamblinhand

TKoenig said:


> we need the cca to go down there and set up a couple of live feed cameras.. now that would be awesome.


That would be a great idea! How could we get that done? Somebody tell me and I would gather up some money for that idea!


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## Gamblinhand

redfish bayrat said:


> Once they start pumping the dredge material out, where is it going to be placed?


I was wondering the same thing. Hopefully out in the Gulf. We're shallow enough out there.


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## Im Headed South

Im Headed South said:


> Most all of the answers to everyone's questions can be found on the site below.
> 
> http://www.restorecedarbayou.org/the-plan/


Beach restoration south of the cut, project drawings can be found at the link above.


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## johnpebsworth

Flew over in a commercial airline today, but visibility was low. Glad you guys are updating!!!


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## Bull Red

Thanks for the updates. I can't wait to get back out there. That place holds a lot of my favorite memories. Too bad it can't be like the old days again.... when you would only see about 5 other boats all weekend. Last time I went out there before it closed up, there were at least 50 boats in the cut and the wind was howling 30+ mph.


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## Mason m

Are they going to build a jettie?


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## Sportsman3535

Mason m said:


> Are they going to build a jettie?


No


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## TKoenig

anyone out there this weekend to provide some update?


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## Im Headed South

My update is on here, we've been on stand by waiting. Hoped today would be the day but still not quite ready to proclaim the sand is flying.

http://2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/showthread.php?t=947946


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## Im Headed South

CCA Texas has put a page up to help stay updated on the project, the hope is they'll be able to post updates weekly from information provided by the site contractor and engineer's.

http://www.ccatexas.org/conservation/habitat/cedar-bayou/


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## TKoenig

nice. thanks for keeping us stuck at work updated!


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## grinderman

Is the sand flying today as projected, or still getting everything mobilized?


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## Im Headed South

I hear it is, they had to work a minor mechanical issue on the pump once they got going but they are back up and running and have begun dredging. Don't think they are up and running at 100% quite yet but are close, we're planning to be out on the site this weekend at some point to get some new pics.


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## grinderman

Thanks for the update.


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## Copano/Aransas

Im Headed South, you make it out there this weekend to get some new pic's of the sand flying ?


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## Im Headed South

Went out there yesterday, the *Sand is Flying, I Repeat the Sand is Flying * The dredge is working on the northern end of the site in CB and pumping it way south along the beach. We wanted to see where it was being discharged but it was too far south to get to without getting into their construction zone which is a no no apperantly . There was 2 large excavators and 4 or 5 large Ute dump trucks that were digging sand in line with where VS will tie into CB. The excavators were up on top of the pile of dredge material that was placed there when CB was dredged last time and it's really crazy to think of how much material has to be moved, the pile they were sitting on top of were at least 20' tall above the sand. We have a bunch of pics that wife is editing to get out to several organizations and publications today, she's the photographer. I'll post some up this evening when I get home from work, it was a late night by the time we got home from down there.


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## Copano/Aransas

Im Headed South said:


> Went out there yesterday, the *Sand is Flying, I Repeat the Sand is Flying * The dredge is working on the northern end of the site in CB and pumping it way south along the beach. We wanted to see where it was being discharged but it was too far south to get to without getting into their construction zone which is a no no apperantly . There was 2 large excavators and 4 or 5 large Ute dump trucks that were digging sand in line with where VS will tie into CB. The excavators were up on top of the pile of dredge material that was placed there when CB was dredged last time and it's really crazy to think of how much material has to be moved, the pile they were sitting on top of were at least 20' tall above the sand. We have a bunch of pics that wife is editing to get out to several organizations and publications today, she's the photographer. I'll post some up this evening when I get home from work, it was a late night by the time we got home from down there.


Ok thanks, look forward to seeing them, sounds like some good progress is being made.


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## Im Headed South

Mothers Day Trip to CB/VS


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## Im Headed South

A few more.


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## thebach

*!*

Thanks for the update!


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## [email protected]

IHS - Tell your bride great job on photos. Indeed the sand is finally flying!


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## Sharpest

Great reports, thanks for the updates! After the Packery Channel project I cant wait to see what this does.


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## aguaflaca

WOOHOO!!!
thanks for all the info & pics I'm headed south.


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## TeamJefe

Sharpest said:


> Great reports, thanks for the updates! After the Packery Channel project I cant wait to see what this does.


What did that project do? Honest question no troll


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## Copano/Aransas

TeamJefe said:


> What did that project do? Honest question no troll


It dramatically improved the fishing in the Laguna Madre, because of increased water flow from the Gulf of Mexico.


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## spot n dot guy

Copano/Aransas said:


> It dramatically improved the fishing in the Laguna Madre, because of increased water flow from the Gulf of Mexico.


X2

Thanks Im Headed South for the update. I fished Carlos a week ago and could hear all the prep work going on. Wanted to make it over to see but didn't. Thanks for the reports.


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## Capt Justin1

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## Buster

*Thanks for report!*

Awesome to see this project unfolding!


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## Bob Haley

*Pass Cavallo*

I know that Cedar Bayou is closer to Rockport and Aransas Pass but will this increase in water flow from the bay system help to further reduce flow at Pass Cavallo in POC?
Iv read where the Pass was once huge at one time and then when the POC big jetties where built it has slowly filled in. My first time to run the pass was in 94 and its now very tricky to run including now all the flats in the bay.
Just curious and Im sure this Cedar Bayou project will really increase water conditions and fishing.
The pictures and reports are great and thanks for sharing.


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## bigfishtx

Bob Haley said:


> I know that Cedar Bayou is closer to Rockport and Aransas Pass but will this increase in water flow from the bay system help to further reduce flow at Pass Cavallo in POC?
> Iv read where the Pass was once huge at one time and then when the POC big jetties where built it has slowly filled in. My first time to run the pass was in 94 and its now very tricky to run including now all the flats in the bay.
> Just curious and Im sure this Cedar Bayou project will really increase water conditions and fishing.
> The pictures and reports are great and thanks for sharing.


Man when I was a kid you could not see all the way across pass Cavallo. And there was an island in the middle. There was no Jhook.

I imagine sooner or later it will fill in completely.


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## Hollon

A updated Google Earth picture once a week would be great.


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## TKoenig

new pics and news?


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## Im Headed South

My wife is onsite today taking pics with several project officials, might be a day or two before I can get some pics up due to my work schedule. A private pilot sent the photo below to CCA Texas, it was taken this past Friday.


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## Im Headed South

Picture my wife just sent me from down there with the caption,
"Highlight of the Day"


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## johndoughy

This continues to be great!


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## Im Headed South

Latest and greatest from today. My wife was pretty pumped at the end of the day despite the huge blister her new work boots gave her . Probably be a update on the CCA CB page in the next day or so with some more info.

1. Looking back toward CB from the beach front north of the dune line, pretty much everything except for the far right of the picture where the grass is located will be removed. 

2. End of dredge pipe on the south end of the project, this is the material being pumped out of CB.

3. Excavators removing sand in VS, all of the old sand from past dredge projects have been removed and they are now digging at ground level. The water in the background is VS, to my knowledge I don't think there has been any water flow back into that area since 1979 except for during a few storm events. Good stuff for Aransas Bay, I promise. 

4 & 5. Large Utes hauling VS material further south down the beach to the furthest spoil area.

6. VS excavation. 

7. Far north end of VS channel where it will eventually tie into the existing slough channel. 

8. This is "sample" section the contractors dug out to give the officials on hand today a idea of what VS will look like between the existing channel and where it ties into CB.


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## [email protected]

IHS - Please tell Lisa her photos are stunning; I'm really digging the crisp focus and the angles she is capturing. Blistered feet and all she has to be on top of the world being there. I'm tied up the next several days but I'll be down that way as soon as I'm able to see it firsthand. Again - KUDOS to the photographer! -EJ


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## tmatheaus

This is great. Thanks for the updates and pictures.


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## aguaflaca

Great pics, almost as good as being there. Thanks for the update and keep them coming. I would consider the blisters well earned for these quality shots.


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## SSST

aguaflaca said:


> Great pics, almost as good as being there. Thanks for the update and keep them coming. I would consider the blisters well earned for these quality shots.


X2! Great pics


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## Agwader

I had no idea (other than the $) just how big this project was going to be. Whole lot of work going on down there. Thx. for the updates.


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## Bob Haley

*Great pics and updates*

So will this be navigational boat access to the Gulf?

I hope Mother nature will be happy with this project and keep it open.

How much$$ to bring this operation over to my dock so I can get my boat out at low tide?

Great pics and updates!


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## daniel7930

Bob Haley said:


> So will this be navigational boat access to the Gulf?
> 
> I hope Mother nature will be happy with this project and keep it open.
> 
> How much$$ to bring this operation over to my dock so I can get my boat out at low tide?
> 
> Great pics and updates!


I think there is a line boats will not be Abel to cross. At least there was in the past

Hooked On


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## spot n dot guy

*Passable Pass?*

I hope it is left open to pass through. I have been keeping up with this for a while not only on this site but on texasflats.net also. I don't remember ever reading if it was going to be blocked off to keep it impassable. I think that boat traffic through the pass would also help keep it from silting back in. It would be great to be able to go out into the Gulf from the area.

Just my 2 cents.

Coop


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## Im Headed South

You won't be able to pass through to the gulf by boat, it's a designated fish pass and closed to boat traffic by state law.


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## spot n dot guy

Are there any other passes that have had this kind of money spent on them that are not passable or are blocked off along our Texas coast? Just curious. It will definitely be great for our fishing and the whole ecosystem but sure would have been nice to be passable.


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## TrueblueTexican

*Never should be passable by boat*

And it keeps all the Yahoo bubba wanna be fishermen off my favorite endangered red snapper Rigs:cheers:

Back in the day you could WADE your boat thru the pass but not legally motor thru - saw more than one boat run out of POC or Aransas looking for seaward Pass Entrance run out of gas and come wading thru with tails tucked between their legs -


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## padrefigure

Just curious, why would the pass be closed to boat traffic?


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## Im Headed South

Not sure but anyone is free to look up the legislation about it, I remember reading it online so it's available. I'd think boat wakes would lead to some pretty severe erosion especially in the beach area, the current project was designed around the fact there wouldn't be any boat traffic through the cut.


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## KDubBlast

How do they usually block a passage such as this? do they usually set up some sort of pylons to block the passage from boaters or draw an imaginary line and post some signs?


----------



## Comeback

They will post signage stating that "no boat traffic is allowed beyond this point". At least they did last time.


----------



## cruss

*sign*

Used to have a sign that prohibited boats going past the spot. Game wardens had a stilt house on the matagorda side of the pass and they would enforce the line.


----------



## bundyducks

Tag


----------



## troutsupport

No, no, no... I called no tags! ;-) 

great to see they are moving along with this. Tagged ya back ;-)


----------



## KDubBlast

Comeback said:


> They will post signage stating that "no boat traffic is allowed beyond this point". At least they did last time.


 Thanks, I hope people abide by this, don't want any unwanted erosion closing this up.


----------



## Im Headed South

Latest engineer's report of the project, moving right along.

http://www.ccatexas.org/wp-content/..._Vinson-Slough-Progress-Update-3-20140525.pdf


----------



## Lawdawg972

Following


----------



## Im Headed South

Pictures from today.

Work continues on the Vinson Slough Excavation as well as the Dredging of Cedar Bayou. Crews have also started the process of transplanting seagrass from Cedar Bayou to the mitigation site on Bludworth Island as per the permit.


----------



## BIGMIKE77

My first ever trip to RockPort we trolled and had 24 specs in about 1 hour.... with a guide of course, but potlicked the coordinates from the captian.....never have trailered the boat there to but have been since with same guide.


----------



## Bull Red

Im Headed South said:


> You won't be able to pass through to the gulf by boat, it's a designated fish pass and closed to boat traffic by state law.


I wonder if that includes kayaks?


----------



## Im Headed South

A video that was put together during the site visit back on May 21st. The video really drives home why I as a volunteer put in the hours that I do to support CCA and I want to personally thank the other volunteers and state staff that do the same. The project is moving right along, sounds like we might be taking a plane up for some updated aerial photographs in the near future.


----------



## Agwader

Thanks for sharing the video IHS, very informative.


----------



## Stuart

Boat wakes are a non event to a pass like that. One bull tide in the fall with crashing surf and ripping currents will do more to that pass than any amount of boat traffic ever will. As mentioned, it's a fish pass so that's why it will be closed to boat traffic.


----------



## duckmania

Looks like it is really coming along. I love that area, can't wait to see how much it improves the fishing in Mesquite/Ayers/Lower San Antonio. I suspect strong tides will push water up Vinson all the way to Spalding.


----------



## TrueblueTexican

*Not so*



Stuart said:


> Boat wakes are a non event to a pass like that. One bull tide in the fall with crashing surf and ripping currents will do more to that pass than any amount of boat traffic ever will. As mentioned, it's a fish pass so that's why it will be closed to boat traffic.


Boat wakes on a non-reinforced sand pass erode the slope and cause sand to fill in with each wake -

I've fished the area for fifty four of my fifty eight years, the _theory_ that it will remain open due to hydrology of Vinsons remains to be seen - when the pass stayed open for years in the sixties we did not have 90' deep scoured out ship channels at Matagorda ship channels, and 50' deep at Aransas - HUGE volumes of water now flow through both ship channels - also now creating the sanding in of Pass Cavallo -

I hope that Cedar Bayou will remain open - but I suspect at least bi-annual dredge will need to take place -


----------



## tokavi

Anyone have recent photos of the progress down there?


----------



## SoberBrent

tokavi said:


> Anyone have recent photos of the progress down there?


X2 I would like the see the progress.


----------



## fultonswimmer

Great info.
I would love to see some pics of the dude fishing at the tender age of four! Did you wade or ? You must have been some bad four year old!


----------



## Spots and Dots

TrueblueTexican said:


> Boat wakes on a non-reinforced sand pass erode the slope and cause sand to fill in with each wake -
> 
> I've fished the area for fifty four of my fifty eight years, the _theory_ that it will remain open due to hydrology of Vinsons remains to be seen - when the pass stayed open for years in the sixties we did not have 90' deep scoured out ship channels at Matagorda ship channels, and 50' deep at Aransas - HUGE volumes of water now flow through both ship channels - also now creating the sanding in of Pass Cavallo -
> 
> I hope that Cedar Bayou will remain open - but I suspect at least bi-annual dredge will need to take place -


Yeah, surely all the studies, modeling, and engineering are just bs and the project is just a waste of time, money, and effort.


----------



## trouthammer

Spots and Dots said:


> Yeah, surely all the studies, modeling, and engineering are just bs and the project is just a waste of time, money, and effort.


Yea those sort of things are foolproof and never wrong.....


----------



## TrueblueTexican

*Never said it was a waste*



Spots and Dots said:


> Yeah, surely all the studies, modeling, and engineering are just bs and the project is just a waste of time, money, and effort.


You read too much into whats not intended - I said it remains to be seen -

And in reply YES I was fishing it as a four year old running up and down Richardsons Island,(San Jose) with a cane pole and shrimp on a hook - my how times have changed -

I saw Santa Gertrudis cattle on the island and later genuine longhorns, I also surf fished with Lee Bass a time or two when he came flying over in his clip wing cub with beach tires - SO YEA - I've seen the area change - mostly not for the good -

I want to see this succeed - all the popular benefits to the contrary - only to see if Ixtoc damage can really be repaired -

I've seen it dredged over the last fifty years, I've seen it a 100 yards wide after Carla too -

My family were stationed in POC when Army Air Corps built the base on Matagorda in 1942 and left when cat 5 Carla wiped them out in 1961. And from there to Ingleside - so YEA bud been there done that -


----------



## TrueblueTexican

*Additionally for you engineer types*

Richard Watson of Texas Coastal Geology had this to say as far back as 2011 " _It is unlikely that Vinson Bayou will help much in keeping Cedar Bayou open against the hundreds of thousands of cubic yards of sand moving along the beach. Packery Channel already needs to have over 200,000 cubic yards of sand dredged from the entrance even though it has jetties to keep the channel open and sand out of the entrance. Without jetties the prospect of Cedar Bayou remaining open for long is low._

Yep seen it with my own two eyes - BUT it can be dredged bi annually to keep it open if enough maintenance funds are funneled into County coffers.

Show me first - the ONLY reason that the pass stayed naturally open before man mucked it up is that there was enough tidal pressure on the back bays to keep it scoured - all that hydraulic volume now flows the ICW out through Matagorda ship Channel and Aransas Pass -


----------



## ComeFrom?

Praise be to God! I was a much younger man when I started praying that this would happen someday! :bounce: :an6: :bluefish: :fish: :fishy: :sheepy: :birthday2 CF?


----------



## grinderman

any new updates-last report on CCAtexas site was dated June 1?


----------



## Copano/Aransas

Not the best pictures, but took these Saturday before last. The dredger was at the end of where the water was, also could see the excavators working on Venison Slough.
























Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## tokavi

Have a question. How far into the gulf are they going to dredge the channel? Seems like they would have to go a pretty good ways to get it flow well.


----------



## Tarponchaser

TrueBlue,

I have seen much of what you have seen.

I but have talked to Parks & Wildlife and they know it will not stay open and have a fund to maintain the flow.

As you do I hope it will stay open and for sure hope at least they can keep it open.

As you have said the building of the POC jetties have relieved so much head pressure that the pass and CB do not have enough out flow to prevent shoaling. Also annual freshwater inflow is fraction of the past and the huge floods are partially controlled.

CB may become a dangerous place if there is not some serious monitoring / enforcement to keep it from being a smuggler's route. Pretty remote and a lot of options as to where to beach.

Call me sometime and we can go inspect the project.

TC


----------



## TeamJefe

Was out there last Saturday. The dredge was not working. It looked like the a skeleton crew was doing maint on it. The land crew was working away. Where are they dumping the sand in the dump trucks? It looked like they were driving out into the gulf. Saw quite a few reds up in there also.


----------



## Im Headed South

They've had several small maintenance issue's pop up on the dredge over the past month and finally decided to shut it and rebuild the problem area new from the ground up. I believe they estimated it being down about a week or so. As of last Friday they'd dredged about 3300' in CB and excavated about the same amount in VS. Contractor says his schedule shows they should have CB and VS tied together on the beach in the next 30 days and all of the dredging completed by late September with several weather delay days figured in that schedule. Looks like the plan is to hold off on going back up in the plane for some more overhead shots until the tie in is completed next month unless someone is willing to donate a hour of flight time :biggrin:, currently we're having to pay a plane out of Port A to get up for the aerial photos.


----------



## Im Headed South

I stand corrected, I thought they said 3300' each side but it was really about 2300' each. Latest engineer's reports here: http://www.ccatexas.org/conservation/habitat/cedar-bayou/cedar-bayou-update-june-23-2014/


----------



## Bull Red

Thanks for the update. I can't wait to get back out there. It's been a while. 

I was about 8 when my dad started taking me out there. I've seen it go through lots of changes too. When I was a kid you'd only see 1/2 a dozen or so boats out there all weekend and the floundering was outstanding! I miss those days.


----------



## Im Headed South

Nice write up in Victoria paper.

http://www.victoriaadvocate.com/news/2014/jun/26/cedar_bayou_ss_062714_242945/?news&local-news


----------



## seadave

TrueblueTexican said:


> the _theory_ that it will remain open due to hydrology of Vinsons remains to be seen - when the pass stayed open for years in the sixties we did not have 90' deep scoured out ship channels at Matagorda ship channels, and 50' deep at Aransas - HUGE volumes of water now flow through both ship channels - also now creating the sanding in of Pass Cavallo -
> 
> You hit the nail on the head..... MSC Jetties are now over 115' in places with an average of 4-5 knots of current during major lunar cycles....


----------



## seadave

Spots and Dots said:


> Yeah, surely all the studies, modeling, and engineering are just bs and the project is just a waste of time, money, and effort.


Yeah, The corps studies at Vicksburg MS said that Pass Cavallo reached an equilibrium eight years ago and would not change anymore. Its almost filled in now... I don't think anyone can predict mother nature.... But theres more to the story too... we don't have the run off of fresh water anymore from the Guadelupe, Lavaca and Colorado Rivers.... I don't think anyone can nail down the hydraulics of the shifting sands of the Texas gulf coast, but Im glad they are making an effort here....

Pass Cavallo will need to be dredged next...


----------



## Agwader

seadave said:


> Yeah, The corps studies at Vicksburg MS said that Pass Cavallo reached an equilibrium eight years ago and would not change anymore. Its almost filled in now... I don't think anyone can predict mother nature.... But theres more to the story too... we don't have the run off of fresh water anymore from the Guadelupe, Lavaca and Colorado Rivers.... I don't think anyone can nail down the hydraulics of the shifting sands of the Texas gulf coast, but Im glad they are making an effort here....
> 
> Pass Cavallo will need to be dredged next...


At the end of the day all Pass Cavallo and Cedar are just fish passes. I would think as long as they don't completely silt in they serve their purpose. How deep does a pass have to be to remain an effective pass for fish and aquatic species?


----------



## TrueblueTexican

*Not quite*



Agwader said:


> At the end of the day all Pass Cavallo and Cedar are just fish passes. I would think as long as they don't completely silt in they serve their purpose. How deep does a pass have to be to remain an effective pass for fish and aquatic species?


Pass Cavallo has been a historical port entry back to the 1600's, with Indianola being a pretty big port for its time - Jean Lafitte has treasure somewhere in the tideline there now -

The ship channel is killing important Texas history, and if it continues to sand in another flowing estuary will be lost to man's machinations - same with Cedar Bayou, Yarbrough, Cottons and Greens --

Busy Beavers believing in USACE - who have farked up paradise --


----------



## makoclay

Hard to imagine Matagorda Bay with connection to the gulf from Greens, Cotton, and Pass Cavalho.


----------



## ROBALO23

I understand the history an all but so what if pass cavallo closes with all the exchange your getting from the big jetties. 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk


----------



## chargedchevy

Is there any flow at all through CB right now? Or will that not happen until the end of the project?


----------



## TrueblueTexican

*Here is the SO WHAT in my lifetime*



ROBALO23 said:


> I understand the history an all but so what if pass cavallo closes with all the exchange your getting from the big jetties.
> 
> Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk


Loss of grass from high currents caused by the Matagorda ship channel - we used to have abundant stand of grass all along both side of the ship channel, and mid bay grass - bird island had big grass mats on its northern side -, Tom and Jerry's had grass extending two hundred yards into the bay the sand scouring caused by extreme tidal flow in the area has basically destroyed the back side island nursery grounds - ya'll are all *****ing about spec numbers being low WELL DUH -

Just in front of the Cedars are about the ONLY place much grass is left between Matagorda ship channel and Pass Cavallo

Currents in the channel run 8 knots pretty regularly, it like a giant black hole sucking the life out of the flats.

A big blow and maybe the South Jetty will collapse - its not far from it now, even with all the re-rocking they have been doing

You now have to get at least two miles north to see grass like it used to be --

Army Corps is not the fishermens friend


----------



## ROBALO23

Go cry me a river.... keller and caraunchua bay used to have a lot more grass also jus a couple of years ago.... I guess the big jetties are the blame for that also.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk


----------



## TrueblueTexican

*Not in Port Lavaca*



ROBALO23 said:


> Go cry me a river.... keller and caraunchua bay used to have a lot more grass also jus a couple of years ago.... I guess the big jetties are the blame for that also.
> 
> Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk


I blame all you boat drivers who aren't fishermen first - park the boat and WADE--:spineyes:

The scouring and deeper Matagorda Channel and the fore bay destruction as a result is well documented

carry on --:work:


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## ROBALO23

Hell yeah! Let me get more popcorn

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk


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## ComalClassic

Its amazing to me how many people complain, not only on this issue, yet offer no remedy. Its really easy to be the quarterback come monday morning.


----------



## Im Headed South

chargedchevy said:


> Is there any flow at all through CB right now? Or will that not happen until the end of the project?


Zero flow currently, it will be much closer to the end of the project before that tie end is completed.


----------



## Im Headed South

Engineers update for the week, http://www.ccatexas.org/conservation/habitat/cedar-bayou/cedar-bayou-update-june-29-2014/


----------



## Saltstalker

Thanks , I H S


----------



## Im Headed South

A few pics from a site visit last Thursday. The big body water in the background is Vinson Slough, they dug two outside channels up as close as they could and are now working their way back out in the center of the channel. The remaining sliver of sand will be removed by the dredge once it's able to float through the channel from Cedar. The dredge is back up and running wide open in CB with both a new engine and pump. It won't be long until CB and VS are both tied together correctly for the first time in about 35 years.

The latest engineer's report can be found here: http://www.ccatexas.org/conservation/habitat/cedar-bayou/cedar-bayou-update-july-6-2014/


----------



## Im Headed South

Bonus picture for anyone that's waded this piece of sand and passed this old shrimp boat through the years. Isn't much left of her and judging from the bee traffic in and around it their nest on the inside might be the only thing holding her together lol.


----------



## RubiconAg

Anyone know the story behind the old boat or when it ran aground?



Im Headed South said:


> Bonus picture for anyone that's waded this piece of sand and passed this old shrimp boat through the years. Isn't much left of her and judging from the bee traffic in and around it their nest on the inside might be the only thing holding her together lol.


----------



## Im Headed South

Some aerial photos that the contractor took a couple of weeks ago, they were from just a day or two before the ones I posted above. They were taken while the dredge was down for repairs, the dredge is back to digging and should be within couple of weeks of being tied into VS I believe. Should have a new update in the next day or two.

Photos: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.682926835096489.1073741874.496466737075834&type=1


----------



## Agwader

Thanks for the update IHS.


----------



## aguaflaca

Im Headed South said:


> Some aerial photos that the contractor took a couple of weeks ago, they were from just a day or two before the ones I posted above. They were taken while the dredge was down for repairs, the dredge is back to digging and should be within couple of weeks of being tied into VS I believe. Should have a new update in the next day or two.
> 
> Photos: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.682926835096489.1073741874.496466737075834&type=1


thanks for update. 
do you know what/where those first two pictures are?


----------



## Neumie

Daggar/Ransom Flats south of Aransas Pass.



aguaflaca said:


> thanks for update.
> do you know what/where those first two pictures are?


----------



## Neumie

Thanks for the updates HS.


----------



## aguaflaca

Neumie said:


> Daggar/Ransom Flats south of Aransas Pass.


that's what I thought it looked like. I wonder what that has to do with Cedar Bayou. cool pictures anyway.


----------



## Im Headed South

This week's engineer's report.

http://www.ccatexas.org/conservation/habitat/cedar-bayou/cedar-bayou-update-july-13-2014/


----------



## DadSaid

cool shrimp boat pic..


----------



## 1fisher77316

*Cedar Bayou Update??*

Maybe I've simply missed it but has anyone actually done an update since the dredging was supposed to start? Are there actual pictures? If anyone has any new information I'm really interested in hearing about it. Have a great day!
Tight Lines
1Fisher77316


----------



## Im Headed South

1fisher77316 said:


> Maybe I've simply missed it but has anyone actually done an update since the dredging was supposed to start? Are there actual pictures? If anyone has any new information I'm really interested in hearing about it. Have a great day!
> Tight Lines
> 1Fisher77316


The dredging started on about page 6 or 7 of this thread, read back through the thread to get caught up to date.


----------



## El General

Does anyone know estimated total cubic yards to be removed? I am curious what percentage of the project is complete.


----------



## reelfast

El General said:


> Does anyone know estimated total cubic yards to be removed? I am curious what percentage of the project is complete.


you can read about it in the permit. its available online


----------



## Im Headed South

El General said:


> Does anyone know estimated total cubic yards to be removed? I am curious what percentage of the project is complete.


Approx. 577,000 cubic yards total, so there just past half way. Excavators should be nearly done with VS here before long and then they'll be moving over to the section of CB between the beach and where the dredge is working. Permit and drawings can be found here: http://www.restorecedarbayou.org/the-plan/


----------



## Bosshawg

In response to Robalo23's statements, if Pass Cavallo were to silt in completely it would have a drastic effect on the fishery. A lot of water and fish go in and out of Pass Cavallo.


----------



## Troutgreen 67

*Cedar*

Boy I'll be glad when they get that project done. Every one are almost will be there.


----------



## RubiconAg

Any updates?


----------



## Im Headed South

This weeks engineer's report: http://www.ccatexas.org/conservation/habitat/cedar-bayou/cedar-bayou-update-july-27-2014/

I have bunch of pics from a site visit last Friday but have been to busy getting things done before leaving on vacation tomorrow to get them posted. I'll try and get them up before we head out, they are making good progress and the VS/CB tie in will be any day now then it will be time to head toward the surf. Contractor is thinking around 6 to 7 more weeks of moving sand then some clean up and de-mobilization to be out by mid October like the permit calls for.


----------



## Comeback

*Cedar Bayou dredging ahead of schedule*

From the Victoria Advocate

http://www.victoriaadvocate.com/news/2014/aug/07/cedar_bayou_080814_246098/?counties


----------



## Agwader

Great update Comeback, can't wait til it opens.


----------



## Copano/Aransas

Agwader said:


> Great update Comeback, can't wait til it opens.


X2.


----------



## Redfish Rick

*Things are looking good*

Things are looking really good for Cedar Bayou. If they get it open ahead of schedule, there should be a decent flounder run through the pass in November. Surf fishing should be awesome around there this fall, as the shrimp migration peaks in late October - early November. It will be very interesting to see if the opening of Vinsons will scour out the cuts leading into Aransas bay from Spaulding to Pauls Mott (Its all connected)...

As bad as we need a tropical storm or hurricane right now to flush out the bays, I hope one doesn't happen before the dredging is complete. Crossing my fingers that we dont get a storm...


----------



## Im Headed South

Well we made it back from a week in Manzanillo, here are the pics from the visit we made a week before we left. Things are moving along, the day we were out they had to shut the dredge down due to sucking up a old gill net that had been buried for no telling how many years. Rick hit the nail on the head about the positive impact the opening of VS should have on the northern end of Aransas Bay, the bait that will now be moving through that estuary should be a real game changer for the area.


----------



## Im Headed South

Here are some of VS, the pics really don't do justice to the size of the cut. They are having to pump water out of the cut to keep it at a workable level for the machines to keep working. It's looking like another visit this Friday, word is the VS channel might be complete by then.


----------



## TrueblueTexican

*When TPWD reopened it*

The fish showed up thick over the next week -

The BEST CB STUDY EVER DONE WITH HISTORICAL PICS

https://www.twdb.texas.gov/publications/reports/contracted_reports/doc/0900010973_CedarBayou.pdf


----------



## Gamblinhand

Im sure its in here, but somebody tell me why again they are not going to allow boats to go thru the cut. I mean if you were forced to idle out, that couldnt possibly hurt any thing right?


----------



## Im Headed South

Can't run through a fish pass by state law, I don't remember the particulars of the law but I'm sure it probably came about because folks wouldn't adhere to the rules in place. What percentage of boaters do you think would idle through a cut into the surf if someone wasn't sitting there 24/7 to enforce it?


----------



## Im Headed South

*We're Cooking with Gas Now Folks*

Vinson Slough is tied into Cedar Bayou :dance:. VS is now 98% complete, the only remaining sand to remove is at the very end where the new slough channel meets the back lake. They will be floating the dredge around at some point next week the dig out final section and then the whole slough will tied into the lakes of St Joe. My wife was so pumped today when she got off the water knowing she took the first boat ride into VS from CB. For folks that have been working to get project done for years and years it is quite a day.

Pic 1. In the mouth of VS looking back into CB where the dredge is working toward the beach.
Pic 2. At the intersection of CB and VS looking down the VS channel.
Pic 3. The section of sand separating the new VS channel with the back lakes of St Joe Island.
Pic 4. Looking back toward the channel from the back lake.
Pic 5. VS channel
Pic 6. VS channel where it turns and runs back to the west toward the lakes. 
Pic 7. Last remaining sliver of sand between the channel and the lake, the dredged will be removing all of that next week at some point.


----------



## Im Headed South

Cedar Bayou is dug up to the intersection of VS and the dredge is working it's way toward the beach with the help of one of the excavators onsite. At some point soon they plan to float the dredge around to complete the tie in of VS to the back lake on St Joe then it will come back to keep working toward the surf. 

Pic 1. Looking toward the beach, for anyone familiar with the area you can see where the channel use to make the turn to the right and go around the island in the middle. 
Pic 2. Where the old channel ties back into the new one on the back side of the island in the middle. This is about as far the boats use to be able to get in the past few years when we would walk to the surf.
Pic 3 & 4. The dredge working near the intersection of CB and VS.
Pic 5 & 6. The end of the discharge pipe south of the project site.


----------



## aguaflaca

WOW. awesome report & pics. Thanks. 
looks like RLB really has it going their way. 
the weather has been vet cooperative.


----------



## Im Headed South

:cheers:
A few bonus pics from my better half taken today out at the site


----------



## 1fisher77316

Does anyone have an actual update since the project began? Or has it begun? Thanks for any input.
1Fisher77316


----------



## Im Headed South

1fisher77316 said:


> Does anyone have an actual update since the project began? Or has it begun? Thanks for any input.
> 1Fisher77316


 Not sure what your looking for, this whole thread is full of updates since the beginning of the project back in mid April. You can find past engineer reports here: http://www.ccatexas.org/conservation/habitat/cedar-bayou/


----------



## justletmein

1fisher77316 said:


> Does anyone have an actual update since the project began? Or has it begun? Thanks for any input.
> 1Fisher77316


Every now and then on 2cool it helps to read past the first post in a thread.


----------



## another bob

Maybe someone posted it already and I missed it.... but does anyone know the depth they are dredging cedar bayou ????


----------



## Im Headed South

6' per permit, the contractor seems to have gone a tad deeper in my estimation


----------



## barronj

1fisher77316 said:


> Does anyone have an actual update since the project began? Or has it begun? Thanks for any input.
> 1Fisher77316


 I almost want to ask the mod to reset your post count. Christ.


----------



## Im Headed South

barronj said:


> I almost want to ask the mod to reset your post count. Christ.


http://2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/showpost.php?p=10020113&postcount=176


----------



## Bull Red

Im Headed South said:


> Bonus picture for anyone that's waded this piece of sand and passed this old shrimp boat through the years. Isn't much left of her and judging from the bee traffic in and around it their nest on the inside might be the only thing holding her together lol.


Sorry for the delayed response, but I haven't looked in on this thread for a while. Thanks for all the updates by the way.

I used to wade the area around that old shrimp boat all the time. Just how far inland is it now? I knew the place was silted in, but DANG! I didn't realize just how bad until I saw this pic.


----------



## Im Headed South

Bull Red said:


> Sorry for the delayed response, but I haven't looked in on this thread for a while. Thanks for all the updates by the way.
> 
> I used to wade the area around that old shrimp boat all the time. Just how far inland is it now? I knew the place was silted in, but DANG! I didn't realize just how bad until I saw this pic.


To you and everyone else that has posted thank you's, I say your welcome, it our pleasure to pass along the updates to all of the folks that have been interested in the project. It's been long process to get to this point and it's always a trill to get to go out and see the progress knowing we're a little closer to the passes being open and flowing. I looked for a photo showing the boats proximity to the beach and this was about the best I could find. It's probably about 75 to 100 yards from the waterline if was guessing, this is one my wife's favorite pics as it has a little of everything in it - A Old Shrimp Boat, A Dredge Pumping Out Mud that's been in place for decades, A Heavy Haul Ute Dump Truck, and the always popular Bird. The end of that pipe is like a buffet for the birds, they love sitting there waiting for a easy meal to get spit out.


----------



## Saltstalker

*John P. Cowan*

Is this the wreck from his painting " Up Near Vinson's " ?


----------



## Im Headed South

Saltstalker said:


> Is this the wreck from his painting " Up Near Vinson's " ?


Yes it is, those surf trout sure do like to stack up in that area.


----------



## Saltstalker

*Vinsons*

Beautiful , I love his work , and have his book. 
Hopefully I can see the area someday after it is open.

Im Headed South ...I see you have a place in Lamar as I do !


----------



## Hollon

We have really enjoyed the updates and pictures. We took a trip to Cedar Bayou on December 26th to see it before the work started. We are looking forward to another trip to see the end product.


----------



## Im Headed South

Moving right along, latest engineer's report.

http://www.ccatexas.org/conservation/habitat/cedar-bayou/cedar-bayou-update-august-24-2014/


----------



## Agwader

Thx for the report.


----------



## Im Headed South

Well another week down and things are progressing nicely. Having to keep an eye on the gulf but so far so good with the weather pattern. Wife went for some aerial photos a week ago today, she snapped about 750 photos in their 3 passes of the project. She narrowed those down to about 60 or so she submitted to CCA Texas, they can be found here https://m.facebook.com/CCATexas/albums/712037912185381/.
We also made a site visit Friday morning, the dredge is in the end of Vinson where it meets the back lake, they were in the process of repairing the dredge pipe while we were there but only had about 1000' left to sweep in the new channel leading into the lake. Once done there they'll float the dredge around to Cedar to break through the plug the excavators are leaving in place between cedar and the gulf. The plan is is to leave a plug in between cedar and the gulf until the end, once both sides are dug to plan they'll remove the plug and work their way back out. Some de-mobilization is already taking place with the hope that the dredging will be complete in the next 3 weeks. As a note we took my boat to the project Friday and I power poled down straight into a pretty stiff breeze and the current that was moving south from cedar through to vinson was so strong it wouldn't even let the wind swing the boat around, it was definitely a welcomed site. In a couple of the pics I'm posting here you can see the way the current is pulling the sediment south while the dredge was working on Thursday.

A few pics:


----------



## Im Headed South

A few pics from Fridays site visit. I was a little stoked to be able to drive ol blue through the bayou and slough lol. Made the rounds by truck, excavators working their way to the gulf, trucks hauling it south to disposal area. Had a little weather we were keeping an eye on, more on that in a second. Get back from the tour to find the current had swung the boat around, note the power pole is buried, most areas showed 7'+ depth. Get work boat to take me to retrieve mine after stopping him from wanting to push it around with the nose of his john boat lol. Weather looking way worse so engineer's decide they'd like a ride back to Goose Island in a hurry and that's what they got lol, 70+ across Mesquite with 5 adults and 50 gals of gas, not to bad at all.


----------



## chargedchevy

Great pics!!! Thanks for the updates!

When the project is finished, does anyone know how far you will be able to travel by boat in the bayou? For example... could you take a boat all the way up the channel into Vinson's and that back lake?


----------



## Comeback

Great report! Thanks!!


----------



## Puddle_Jumper

Absolutely love all the reports and pics... Gives me chills.. Thanks to all


----------



## Im Headed South

chargedchevy said:


> Great pics!!! Thanks for the updates!
> 
> When the project is finished, does anyone know how far you will be able to travel by boat in the bayou? For example... could you take a boat all the way up the channel into Vinson's and that back lake?


Engineer says that's TPWD call, he knew it would be north of the intersection between CB and VS. He thought it might be back as far as where the dredging began which would be somewhere around the top of the 5th pic. He said they would put up 3 signs, one at the entrance from the gulf side and one each at the cut off point in CB and VS. Going to take some clarification from the state I'm sure, shallow draft boats might be able to get closer to the beach by using the channel to the right of cedar bayou without disturbing the CB cut itself. The thought of ferrying a kayak out there to access the surf has crossed my mind as well, not really built for a kayak though lol. I'll continue to try and find the answers to some of these questions as I talk to the folks down there.


----------



## Saltstalker

*Goose Island , 1st. Pic*

In the first pic , would that be Goose Island straight above Vinsons , extending the furthest from right to left , at top of pic ?
Just curious. Great report , Thank you.


----------



## Copano/Aransas

Saltstalker said:


> In the first pic , would that be Goose Island straight above Vinsons , extending the furthest from right to left , at top of pic ?
> Just curious. Great report , Thank you.


I think that would be the Spalding area, of Aransas Bay. Also thanks for all the Reports Im Headed South.


----------



## Saltstalker

Copano/Aransas said:


> I think that would be the Spalding area, of Aransas Bay. Also thanks for all the Reports Im Headed South.


Yes , but im talking about the dark landmass at the very top of the pic, in the far far distance. Thank you.


----------



## Copano/Aransas

Saltstalker said:


> Yes , but im talking about the dark landmass at the very top of the pic, in the far far distance. Thank you.


Probably very likely it is Goose Island, because thats looking towards the Copano Causeway.


----------



## Im Headed South

Saltstalker said:


> In the first pic , would that be Goose Island straight above Vinsons , extending the furthest from right to left , at top of pic ?
> Just curious. Great report , Thank you.


Yes I'd say that is Goose Island / Lamar. Starting above St Joe you have Spalding, Carlos, ICW, Blackjack Shoreline to entrance of St. Charles then on the top side of that would be Goose. Goggle earth shows that to be right at 9 miles.


----------



## Agwader

Great Pics IHS, thanks for the update. Getting close.


----------



## TrueblueTexican

*No boats !!*

Personally , I don't want to see any boats from grass line beachward - get off yer lazy asses and WALK/Wade -

The cut will be a better fishing hole for just a little longer of the bubbas who can't walk ten feet stay out of it --


----------



## Agwader

Just wanted to bump this thread back to the top. I'm Heading South or anybody else hearing when the gates will be opened?


----------



## Big Guns 1971

cant wait to sit in the mouth and drift inland with the current.


----------



## Im Headed South

Agwader said:


> Just wanted to bump this thread back to the top. I'm Heading South or anybody else hearing when the gates will be opened?


Before the end of the month  , folks coming out to the site is really getting to be a problem. Their having to run people out pretty much daily and they've had boats get into the dredge pipe numerous times and week before last a couple of boats come flying through from one end to the other at wot :headknock luckily they missed the pipe somehow or things would have been bad so they are asking for folks to please remember it's a very active construction site and off limits to the public. I'll have some pics from today to put up tomorrow, they are steadily digging from the CB/VS tie in toward the surf. With the elevation of the dune line in that area they are having to go way deep in that stretch to end up at the proper bottom elevation. Won't be long, hoping the tropical weather holds off just a little longer.


----------



## Johnny9

Ken Calloway would be proud.


----------



## Agwader

Thanks IHS, great report as always.


----------



## Im Headed South

From yesterday, Excavators are working their toward the gulf and the dredge is finishing up the sweeping in area where VS ties into the back lake.


----------



## Agwader

A beautiful sight to say the least, great pics and great news on a potential late September opening.


----------



## Saltstalker

Thanks again !


----------



## TeamJefe

Doesn't it look like it won't take much to fill those channels back in? Its all sand and there's no bulkhead or anything


----------



## 1fisher77316

Does anyone have an updated picture of Cedar Bayou? How much has been dredged? Is it now open? Thanks for the update.
1Fisher77316


----------



## Sgrem

1fisher77316 said:


> Does anyone have an updated picture of Cedar Bayou? How much has been dredged? Is it now open? Thanks for the update.
> 1Fisher77316


Dude....really? are you reading the thread at all? If you are truly interested might wanna scan up the page a tad. Pics 4 posts up are from 4 days ago....engineering reports on the website....aerial photos and ground photos and from a boat photos from allllllllllll along this process showing how much is being dredged and what was left as of the time of the post. IHS is doing a great job of updating the thread. All is coming along nicely.


----------



## spot n dot guy

1fisher77316 said:


> Does anyone have an updated picture of Cedar Bayou? How much has been dredged? Is it now open? Thanks for the update.
> 1Fisher77316


Ditto ! I was just thinking that. I am like a little kid coming to look under the tree every few days to see what is new.


----------



## aguaflaca

saw this on USFWS Facebook page, does this mean they are gonna have to stop?
whoopers are about a month early.


----------



## justletmein

sgrem said:


> Dude....really? are you reading the thread at all? If you are truly interested might wanna scan up the page a tad. Pics 4 posts up are from 4 days ago....engineering reports on the website....aerial photos and ground photos and from a boat photos from allllllllllll along this process showing how much is being dredged and what was left as of the time of the post. IHS is doing a great job of updating the thread. All is coming along nicely.


That dude is a troll, he's posted the same exact post every couple of weeks in this thread since the beginning. lol


----------



## barronj

justletmein said:


> That dude is a troll, he's posted the same exact post every couple of weeks in this thread since the beginning. lol


Ha, I was going to say the exact same-

He said almost the exact same thing a month ago (8/17):

http://2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/showpost.php?p=10497217&postcount=203

I laugh and poke fun, but I secretly hope he's not just losing it.


----------



## Im Headed South

aguaflaca said:


> saw this on USFWS Facebook page, does this mean they are gonna have to stop?


Project is full steam ahead, won't be too much longer.


----------



## aguaflaca

Im Headed South said:


> Project is full steam ahead, won't be too much longer.


that's what I hoped to hear.


----------



## Tslick

I've been checking in on the progress every so often since they started. Couple pics from today. Lots of activity going on so I stayed in the boat. First pic looking up Cedar Bayou toward the gulf, with Vincent's on the right. Was told the dredging in Vincent's will be completed today and then move over to CB for the final push. I'm more than excited that this project is nearing completion and that my kids will be able to experience fishing CB just as I did as a kid.


----------



## Im Headed South

Good deal T, going to have the last site visit this Friday before the opening. Can't wait to see the water flowing through there when it's done.


----------



## Agwader

freaking awesome, looking forward to heading down in a couple weeks. Hopefully it will be open by then, I'm sure it won't take long to start making a difference.


----------



## Rolls

I would love to see a video of when it's opened


----------



## Saltstalker

Rolls said:


> I would love to see a video of when it's opened


This , It sure would be nice to see her flowing.


----------



## Im Headed South

There will be video shot and we'll get plenty of pictures at the opening, you can sense the excitement in the folks that have been working toward this goal for years.


----------



## spuds

Congrats to everyone who supported this and kudos to those especially, who made it happen. Just goes to show what can be accomplished when everyone pulls together.

:bluefish:


----------



## Im Headed South

Getting closer, our last visit before they punch on through to the gulf. Dredge finished it's work at the end of VS and is now working it's way back toward CB sweeping the bottom and making sure they are at the correct depth as they travel back. Contractor is starting to demobilize and haul equipment back to the mainland, had a barge show up today as a matter of fact. Working in the gulf is due to start in the next day or so. Both new channels are absolutely packed with bait fish, it's like their ready to move out to the gulf for winter even though they can't quite make it...yet. Contractors and engineers still wanting us to remind folks it's a active construction zone and off limits, they're still having to run folks off regularly and have even had a hard head or two that wanted to argue with them about it.

Pics 
1 & 2 Looking toward the gulf as pulling in to the dredged portion of CB, VS entrance to the right.
3 & 4 Excavators at the plug between the gulf and CB, they plan to do the work in the gulf and leave a small plug between the two until the last day.
5 Flagging in the gulf.
6 & 7 Looking up CB back toward Mesquite Bay.


----------



## Im Headed South

A few more.

1 Dredge working it's way back out of VS
2 & 3 Looking up VS toward the back lake
4 Equipment headed back home, seems like only last week we were all excited about seeing the equipment headed out to the site.


----------



## Copano/Aransas

Great Pic's as always, thanks for the report. Can't Wait!!


----------



## EliteBoatStorage

Thank You for all the hard work we can't wait. :bounce:


----------



## Saltstalker

Hopefully no complications with the Whoopers showing up earley ?


----------



## Im Headed South

Saltstalker said:


> Hopefully no complications with the Whoopers showing up earley ?


What Whooping Crains :wink: Seriously though to my knowledge there's only been one pair that's been spotted to date and as long as they don't decide to visit the site it looks like the project will continue as planned. Between watching the gulf for storms, turtles on the beach, piper plovers nesting in the dunes, and now a couple of whoppers showing up a month early the job hasn't been without stress lol.


----------



## bigbarr

Couple of stupid questions,,,, What happens when they cut thru the final plug,, does water from the gulf come rushing into the bay all at once ? Also does anyone know will it change the tide times for the bay systems closest to the open pass ?


----------



## Spots and Dots

bigbarr said:


> Couple of stupid questions,,,, What happens when they cut thru the final plug,, does water from the gulf come rushing into the bay all at once ? Also does anyone know will it change the tide times for the bay systems closest to the open pass ?


My guess on tide is it will still be an average'ish of POC and Port A, but the actual tide will be much stronger/significant.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Neumie

There's a TCOON station (http://www.cbi.tamucc.edu/obs/202) at ANWR that may be able to show the difference in the effect of the pass opening. There's also a CBI salinity gauge (http://www.cbi.tamucc.edu/obs/145) in Mesquite Bay that will interesting to watch as well.


----------



## whiskeydent

Re: the turbidity measure, does anybody know what's considered clear and what's considered murky? It'd be cool to understand it so you can prepare before you leave the dock.


----------



## Neumie

whiskeydent said:


> Re: the turbidity measure, does anybody know what's considered clear and what's considered murky? It'd be cool to understand it so you can prepare before you leave the dock.


The lower the number, the clearer the water is all I know. You'd probably have to document trips and compare to the closest gauge.


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## Agwader

Tomorrow is D-Day right? Look forward to the reports.


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## Im Headed South

Today is the day, we are onsite and waiting. Not enough signal to load a pic, it's a great day for the middle coast.


----------



## txredfish1007

*Wow...*

I am new to fishing dow there and just bought a boat....will take it out to PA, AP RP this weekend to do a little fishing...no worries I wont try to get up in CB but its exceiting just to read the posts...Hopw today goes well and they bust through as planned... just hope all the fish dont get swept away!!!!  thank you for the updates


----------



## Agwader

Im Headed South said:


> Today is the day, we are onsite and waiting. Not enough signal to load a pic, it's a great day for the middle coast.


Yes Sir, a great day indeed. Look forward to the pictures. Please count for us how many Trout you see swimming into the bay for us. LOL


----------



## Copano/Aransas

:dance: Alright can't wait to see it flowing!! :dance:


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## cwbycrshr

I wonder how big the boat show will be on the inshore side of those 2 fish passes for the following months :biggrin:. We are planning a trip in the next few weeks as well and hope to have the time to just run over there and take a look (not past the no boat zone of course) if we can get through the "traffic jam". 
I'm stoked to see how well it holds up. An engineering feat that is quite impressive to move that much sand.


----------



## seadriftbayrat

*It's open!!*

Couple pics floating around from today.


----------



## GulfCoast1102

I'm a little confused about the "no boat" issue. I'm not at all familiar with that area. Where is it that boats shouldn't be? Is there a legally sanctioned "no boat" area, or more of a request from the community to prevent erosion, etc?


----------



## jampen

Can't believe nobody brought a rod along...First cast you know?


----------



## Tslick

GulfCoast1102 said:


> I'm a little confused about the "no boat" issue. I'm not at all familiar with that area. Where is it that boats shouldn't be? Is there a legally sanctioned "no boat" area, or more of a request from the community to prevent erosion, etc?


FYI- Don't be this guy in the green boat. He had to go by 4 boats of game wardens to get past the sign. lol He got a talking to.


----------



## Empty Pockets CC

jampen said:


> Can't believe nobody brought a rod along...First cast you know?


My dad took his. He wanted to catch the first trout he said. 
I'll try and post a video of the water first coming through.


----------



## Empty Pockets CC

Here we go. Some more pictures. My old man brought his rod. lol


----------



## Empty Pockets CC

More.


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## Agwader

water a flowin, thanks for the pics. Keep'em coming.


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## aggiefishinDr

Nice pics!!! Cant wait to see how this will change things, hopefully for the better.

Thanks to all of those who updated us through out the process


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## Puddle_Jumper

LOVE the pics.. Thanks for sharing again !! Gave me the chills seein that water flowing thru !!


----------



## aguaflaca

thanks for the pics, sure wish I could have been there. almost brought a tear of happiness to my eye.


----------



## TexasFlatsFisher

Awesome Pics!! Terrell, did your old man get that first Cedar Bayou pesca?


----------



## TxAdam

Empty Pockets CC said:


> Here we go. Some more pictures. My old man brought his rod. lol
> 
> View attachment 1703602


That is way too cool! Definitely a story he'll be able to tell for many years. Looks like EJ was trying to talk him out of that rod, though!


----------



## Jeff SATX

Tslick said:


> FYI- Don't be this guy in the green boat. He had to go by 4 boats of game wardens to get past the sign. lol He got a talking to.


lol, come on man!


----------



## Copano/Aransas

Absolutely Awesome to see this!!! Can't wait to see it in person.


----------



## Im Headed South

What a great day, Mesquite and the surrounding bays are once again connected to the gulf, several tears of joy were shed. Judge Mills was given the honor of digging out the final amount of sand, and after a few scoops mother nature took over. We were the last boat to leave just a while ago and the amount of sand the current has cleared out is crazy. Saw several rafts of finger mullet swimming through the cut not 30 minutes after it started flowing. We have plenty of pictures and a couple of videos I'll post up when I can. Thank you to everyone that has helped get the project completed, the contractor expects to be complete and off the beach by the end of next week.


----------



## lantanatx

Wonderful Thanks for the pictures


----------



## txredfish1007

*Incredible*

and I havent even put my boat in saltwater yet!!!!


----------



## Comeback

Great News! Thanks for the pics.


----------



## backlash71

This great! Thanks for the updates!


----------



## TrueblueTexican

*Be full of flatties*

At the end of October. Cane pole , a skrimp, washtub and some waders:biggrin:

Good to see the exchange again - been a long while


----------



## Im Headed South

A few more pics, anyone that can pick up channel 3 or 6 out of CC be sure to try and catch the 6 o'clock news. The workers are ready for some time off lol. Judge Mills got er done with the track hoe.


----------



## Im Headed South

Couple of videos.


----------



## grinderman

Awesome-thanks to everyone that has given so much of their time and effort to make this happen. You will never be thanked enough, but know how much this means-great job!!!!


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## bigbarr

Now that is totally awesome ! thanks for posting everything throughout this, really nice of you !


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## Saltstalker

A gratefull ...Thank you ! To everyone involved , and for this thread and all the nice pics of the progress. D


----------



## Spots and Dots

.


----------



## Trouthunter

Finally! Took a whole lot of people and money to make this happen. Kudos to all of them.

And thanks you guys who kept us up to date with your visits and your pictures.

TH


----------



## mesquitecountry

Awesome!


----------



## Redfish Rick

Glad to see things are nearly complete. I'm going to make a trip out there next week or later, as soon as they move all the equipment out. I will take some pics and give a fishing report when I go. 

The other big change locally is going to be the way the tide moves through vinsons and st joe island. I will be looking at things in the back lakes to improve, and fishing near the tidal drains along st joe should be outstanding. Over time, this should also increase sea grass growth in the back lakes, helping the duck hunting in the area. I will be out in the airboat later next week to see where the flow channels develop through vinsons and connect with the lakes on the st joe shore. 

Capt. Rick Hammond 
Nightstalker guide service.


----------



## EliteBoatStorage

That is absolutely good stuff, headed down next weekend. A big thank you to all the dedicated folks that made it happen!!!


----------



## EliteBoatStorage

Question, is the channel going into mesquite still marked with the small pvc. Probably just follow the line of boats. All good stuff.


----------



## Copano/Aransas

EliteBoatStorage said:


> Question, is the channel going into mesquite still marked with the small pvc. Probably just follow the line of boats. All good stuff.


Yeah, there tall wooden post, that go from the edge of the ICW to halfway across Mesquite towards Cedar Bayou.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Spots and Dots

Good site outlining the history of CB
http://texascoastgeology.com/passes/cedarbayou.html

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Agwader

I would love to see a satellite photo or one from a plane of Cedar Bayou since the opening.


----------



## Blk Jck 224

Agwader said:


> I would love to see a satellite photo or one from a plane of Cedar Bayou since the opening.


 I can hook you up with a pilot out of Pearland Regional Airport who will fly you and two of your buddies anywhere you want to go. I did the birds eye view tour East all the way to the East Sabine marsh last December.


----------



## Im Headed South

We plan to go up for some post completion aerials as soon as the weather clears off.


----------



## Agwader

Im Headed South said:


> We plan to go up for some post completion aerials as soon as the weather clears off.


awesome, look forward to it.


----------



## ComeFrom?

Just Fantastic!!!


----------



## dolch

Looks like I will have to check that out in November while everyone is deer hunting....


----------



## KDubBlast

Couple questions that im sure have already been answered in this thread but cant find.

1. What are they going to do to keep this from closing up again? I know they said something about the hydraulics from venison running through there should keep the sand and silt moving but is this the only thing they are hoping for?

2. How long do yall think it will take to start seeing results. Instantly, 3-6 months, 1-2 years? My parents were down at there house this weekend in Copano and said the water was higher than they have ever seen this past sunday - this morning.


----------



## chicapesca

KDubBlast said:


> Couple questions that im sure have already been answered in this thread but cant find.
> 
> 1. What are they going to do to keep this from closing up again? I know they said something about the hydraulics from venison running through there should keep the sand and silt moving but is this the only thing they are hoping for?
> 
> 2. How long do yall think it will take to start seeing results. Instantly, 3-6 months, 1-2 years? My parents were down at there house this weekend in Copano and said the water was higher than they have ever seen this past sunday - this morning.


http://www.restorecedarbayou.org/the-plan/


----------



## Hollon

I sure wish the Google Earth satellite would make a pass so everybody could see the results.


----------



## aggiefishinDr

Maybe I missed it but what is the depth at the opening? I know the canal is something like 6 ft but how deep is the opening itself??


----------



## daniel7930

aggiefishinDr said:


> Maybe I missed it but what is the depth at the opening? I know the canal is something like 6 ft but how deep is the opening itself??


If your talking coming into cb from
The bay. Last year when I was there it was at least 6 foot deep


----------



## SSST

aggiefishinDr said:


> Maybe I missed it but what is the depth at the opening? I know the canal is something like 6 ft but how deep is the opening itself??


I was there Sunday, it's plenty deep coming in from Mesquite Bay, i think i was showing around 5ft.


----------



## aggiefishinDr

I am wondering depth of canal into the gulf???


----------



## Im Headed South

The hydraulics going on at the mouth are nothing short of unbelievable, it's changing pretty dramatically everyday. The cut between the VS tie in and the gulf has nearly doubled in width on its own since the plug at the gulf was removed last Thursday. The mouth was dug to between 6 and 7' deep by the excavators at the opening on Thursday since then a deeper gut has been scoured out on the south side of the mouth that is estimated to be over 10' deep, the current is too strong to safely put someone in there to get a accurate reading but it's way deeper than it was dug. Its believed the mouth will continue to change over time for quite a while, once the super high tide falls out things will change some more and we've yet to have a strong SE wind blowing into it like it will have a majority of the time, things are expected to be pretty fluid out there for a while. The engineers are ecstatic with what's taken place so far and are very optimistic that their models will be accurate to what actually takes place out in the field. It's good stuff for sure, Saturday we saw a pretty good size shark near the opening of Cedar in Mesquite, no way to prove it came through the opening but I'm almost certain it did.


----------



## aggiefishinDr

Thanks!! That's what I was looking for, its amazing how it is changing so much already


----------



## Agwader

Im Headed South said:


> The hydraulics going on at the mouth are nothing short of unbelievable, it's changing pretty dramatically everyday. The cut between the VS tie in and the gulf has nearly doubled in width on its own since the plug at the gulf was removed last Thursday. The mouth was dug to between 6 and 7' deep by the excavators at the opening on Thursday since then a deeper gut has been scoured out on the south side of the mouth that is estimated to be over 10' deep, the current is too strong to safely put someone in there to get a accurate reading but it's way deeper than it was dug. Its believed the mouth will continue to change over time for quite a while, once the super high tide falls out things will change some more and we've yet to have a strong SE wind blowing into it like it will have a majority of the time, things are expected to be pretty fluid out there for a while. The engineers are ecstatic with what's taken place so far and are very optimistic that their models will be accurate to what actually takes place out in the field. It's good stuff for sure, Saturday we saw a pretty good size shark near the opening of Cedar in Mesquite, no way to prove it came through the opening but I'm almost certain it did.


Very informative and great to hear things are working to plan. I think we'll see a lot more toothed critters in and around the bay system with the opening.


----------



## Its Catchy

Have they studied the mouth of the San Bernard River? It was dredged and filled back in within about 2 1/2 years.

Personally, I think dredging of the intracoastal changed the tidal flow and many of passes just don't have the volume of water flowing through to keep them open anymore. 

I am curious to see how long it stays open without jetties?


----------



## Capt Justin1

*Pictures*

Here are a couple pictures I received today.


----------



## Spots and Dots

To think just 10 days ago it was just opening. The newly formed guts are awesome.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## tspitzer

great pics cannot wait to go fish it--


----------



## Im Headed South

Should have a bunch of up to date aerial photos in the next couple days. Here's one from the middle of last week that we marked up showing the original limits of the dredging and how much it has changed in a short period of time.


----------



## TxAdam

Awesome pics! Love to see that. Can't wait to get down there and see it in person!


----------



## boltmaster

Hope to get over there this comming weekend....interesting how it is making that s curve. I hope it stays open, those two points building up into the original path may be harmless but they look a little ominous

Great pix and thanks for all the updates and reports


----------



## Agwader

Awesome pictures, keep'em coming. Has anybody fished the upper Aransas Bay complex yet, if so any noticeable differences? Any fish being caught?


----------



## duckmania

I'm no hydrologist but it looks like the current coming out of Vinsons is pushing the current over coming out of Cedar bayou and creating the S curve. It can turn into a pretzel as long as it stays open! Thanks for the photos.


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## TrueblueTexican

*I am guessing*

It will survive IF it widens and opens up Vinsons slough by taking away the leading edge and rounds the corner - I've seen the actual cut almost 75 yards wide in 1966 - I was way over my head at the time (but I was only 5' tall at the time)

Coastal Geology tells me it will take two years to sand in again - I remain hopeful they are wrong -

Flounder should find it pretty fast now - it will be slamma phi come June next year for surf runners from 5-7#.

I need to find my overhead shots of about a thousand sharks pupping in the surf one June


----------



## Copano/Aransas

Awesome Pic's, can't wait to go see it.


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## Im Headed South

Teaser pic my wife sent me of today's fly over. Water is really moving through and things are still changing pretty much every day. If you look at the very top at where the dredging began you can get an idea of the original width, it just widening out from there. The northern corner is way different, looks like the sign might need to be moved north, it was probably 30 yards from the beach waterline at the opening. More to come tomorrow.


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## Saltstalker

Great views , Thank you !


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## daryl1979

Sweet


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## Im Headed South

A few from ground level today, really awesome to see all the wildlife out in the area. The birds are loving it. Looks like the widening uncovered (undercut) one of the old picnic tables that the dunes had consumed many moons ago.


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## Im Headed South

Todays Flyover Pics


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## daniel7930

I remember in like 96. We went camping there. For some reason I remember covered shelters there.


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## Redfish Rick

*On the ground look today, and fishing report!!!*

I made a trip out to Cedar Bayou today to check things out and fish for a few minutes. Tides are really high right now, but the dredged area up to the "no boats" sign is very deep, just stay in the center or east side when running.

We arrived about 4pm with a hard incoming tide. It is evident that there is a lot of bank scouring going on along the East bank towards the gulf and on the North bank of the Vinson slough cut. Just inside the gulf mouth, where the bayou turns North, there is substantial shoaling, and it is less than 2 feet deep most of the way across, with 2 very narrow deep areas on the East and West sides of the channel. At approx 100 yards inside the surf breakers, where the bayou narrows down, I was able to walk all the way across the main cut and never got more than waist deep. The water was flowing fast enough to sweep me off my feet if I wasn't careful, and this strong current exchange should keep this area from silting in. From what I saw, the widening of the original channel is not a good thing, as a very large shallow sandbar is developing in the middle of the cut just inside the gulf mouth. As long as the main flow "splits" the developing sandbar, things should remain deep and swift for a long time.

The amount of baitfish in the Bayou was incredible, and I saw plenty of spanish mackerel, ladyfish, and ribbonfish flying out of the water chasing bait. The birds were loving it, and hundreds of pelicans were in the area gorging themselves on bait. Fishing was tough in the strong current, and it was really hard to work a lure properly. I finally caught one 14" trout a few feet before I got back to the boat to leave. I was happy to catch my first Cedar Bayou trout after the opening, and hopefully there will be many more to come...

Capt. Rick Hammond


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## ChampT22

Where is the sign located, that states no boats beyond this point.


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## Redfish Rick

*more pics*

few more


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## Redfish Rick

*signs*

There are 2 signs saying "no vessels past this point". One is about 400 yards inside from the gulf mouth and North of the Vinson Slough tie-in. The other is at the immediate gulf mouth at the surf high tide line.

Rick


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## Im Headed South

ChampT22 said:


> Where is the sign located, that states no boats beyond this point.


About here


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## 2thDr

Is it possible to access via Vincent's without an airboat?


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## bigfishtx

Looking at the mouth, It looks like it will close up pretty quickly when tides drop back out.


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## southpaw

bigfishtx said:


> Looking at the mouth, It looks like it will close up pretty quickly when tides drop back out.


What makes you say that?


----------



## Hollon

I read somewhere that during the civil war the mouth of Cedar Bayou was 1 mile wide and the currents were strong enough to worry the boat captains. :texasflag


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## Agwader

Glad to know it's only a 400 yard walk to the beach. Also, glad to know the 14 inchers are still there. LOL


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## cab

Anybody made the run in an outboard from Spalding into Vincent's Slough to Cedars?


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## GulfCoast1102

It is hard to imagine that no jetties were built. For all of the money spent and the effort poured into the project, you'd think that there would be jetties as "insurance" to prevent the pass from closing up again. 

Secondly, what is the issue with no boats through the pass? Is it an issue of boat wake causing erosion?


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## Im Headed South

Your not allowed to enter Vinson slough, there's a sign where it meets the back lake which marks the end of access. The mouth of Cedar and the dredged portion of Vinson slough are designated by the state as fish passes and therefore not considered navigable waters. Unfortunately a bunch of folks are ignoring the signs and are doing more harm than good, hopefully a game warden will be making regular visits to the area to help educate folks that can't read the signs. Here's a link to a bunch of fly over pics from yesterday. https://facebook.com/CCATexas/albums/725603530828819/


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## bigfishtx

southpaw said:


> What makes you say that?


Just looking at the pics, you can see is is very shallow at the entrance, and, there appears to be a bar building up right inside the mouth.

Last time they opened it, from what I remember, it closed up pretty quickly.

Too much water passes through the jetty's now for it to remain open naturally, unless they changed things up from the last time they did this. I can't remember the Slough being opened up last time, that should help with more water flow though.


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## Im Headed South

Feds would never issue a permit for jetties, common sense folks couldn't imagine the hoops you have to go through to get them to sign off on a project like this. Read in the SA paper today that a endangered spider is going to completely change a overpass project here, cost for the change? 44 million dollars! There are 3 endangered species in the area of this project to have to deal with, if the red rape with the feds wasn't enough of a issue then you have to look at the extra millions of dollars a jetty would cost. This project would still be on the drawing board if not for private funding that took years to gather, double or triple the project cost and it never happens. If the work wasn't completed in 5 years the permit expires and your back at zero. There were guide lines going in that everyone knew they had to work within, the engineers feel they accomplished the goal within those guidelines, time will tell if they did. I'll continue to look at the glass half full rather than half empty.


----------



## Copano/Aransas

Im Headed South said:


> Feds would never issue a permit for jetties, common sense folks couldn't imagine the hoops you have to go through to get them to sign off on a project like this. Read in the SA paper today that a endangered spider is going to completely change a overpass project here, cost for the change? 44 million dollars! There are 3 endangered species in the area of this project to have to deal with, if the red rape with the feds wasn't enough of a issue then you have to look at the extra millions of dollars a jetty would cost. This project would still be on the drawing board if not for private funding that took years to gather, double or triple the project cost and it never happens. If the work wasn't completed in 5 years the permit expires and your back at zero. There were guide lines going in that everyone knew they had to work within, the engineers feel they accomplished the goal within those guidelines, time will tell if they did. I'll continue to look at the glass half full rather than half empty.


Good Post IHS, when Feds are involved in a project like this it's very time consuming work, that involves having to work around many obstacles. That many don't see. It looks like the project was a huge success, that will yield many fruits in the sort and long term. Hopefully Cedar Bayou will continue to flow for many years.


----------



## aguaflaca

GulfCoast1102 said:


> It is hard to imagine that no jetties were built. For all of the money spent and the effort poured into the project, you'd think that there would be jetties as "insurance" to prevent the pass from closing up again.
> 
> Secondly, what is the issue with no boats through the pass? Is it an issue of boat wake causing erosion?


try to imagine the cost & logistics of getting the amount of rock required for jetties to that remote location. I would guess the cost would cover maintenance dredging costs for 20-30 years.


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## SolarScreenGuy

Hollon said:


> I read somewhere that during the civil war the mouth of Cedar Bayou was 1 mile wide and the currents were strong enough to worry the boat captains. :texasflag


Yes. I have read letters from field commanders of the Confederates that said they had no problem crossing at Aransas Pass to St. Joe Island, but when they came to CB/VS, they said it was too wide, deep, and swift to cross. They had orders to sweep the entire island all the way to Pass Cavallo where the Union forces had a major encampment and controlled all shipping into Matagorda Bay. The Confederates eventually did make crossing through CB. What happened at Pass Cavallo is apparently undocumented. My guess is not favorable to the Confederates.


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## Im Headed South

Link to some great historical photos of all the Tx passes: http://texascoastgeology.com/airphoto.html

Here's a map from 1884:


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## Sgrem

Historical map seems to show VS and CB each had a straight shot out...


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## jampen

Looks surprisingly similar...


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## Im Headed South

The mouth has shifted around a bunch over the years, prior to the ICW it appears VS had the stronger current influence. There's a bunch of other pics at the link posted.


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## Sgrem

Wow yes it does look similar....couldnt see that level of detail. I think with current support and private folks keeping up with the project they will maintain a fund for future attention that we all accept it will need. 

All reading should get involved and stay in support of this for years to come. Join the cause for future maintenance....


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## txteltech

This was a great project and the people involved overcame insurmountable obstacles. Let's just be glad they pulled it off and enjoy the fruits of their labors!!!!


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## TrueblueTexican

*Tidal Rip*

At Cedar beach front the tidal current generally flows from Corpus toward POC. Historically before Ixtoc, there was a deep rip gut that left the mouth and extended about 200 yards into the gulf aligned to the NNE, and it was usually around ten-12' deep, but never more than 10 yards wide. You could tell where it was by watching the waves break on the bars. The leading edge of the gut was a quick steep drop-off and the downstream side sloped gently.

You can watch the sediment carried away and see this is still the case today - the waves angle into the open pass and the current work against each other -

I would expect to see continued scouring of the downstream edge,(north edge) until the mouth is no deeper than 3'. Once the tides drop out - its possible the offshore gut may cut through again --

Its interesting to watch time lapse what is occurring -

I'll be standing on the second bar come June, maybe try to pound a few flatties at the cut to Vinsons in two weeks as well.

I went out last week for a view - It almost as wide now as it was in 1966.


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## bigfishtx

Looking at those photo's it does not appear Vincent SL is open on the bay side?


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## Sgrem

bigfishtx said:


> Looking at those photo's it does not appear Vincent SL is open on the bay side?


Look again at the first picture on post #332.....


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## Just Casting

Iâ€™m a newbie but have been monitoring this interesting thread for a while. It is interesting monitoring the newly dug channels through the pictures and discussion. The water from Mesquite flows through Cedar Bayou in a straight stable condition until it gets hit by the perpendicular entry flow from Vinson Slough. This knocks it off balance and pushes it to the north side of CB channel causing it to become an unstable flow. It bounces off while gouging out the north side. It is then forced to the other side causing it to be gouged out. This new unstable condition causes eddies and swirls to form and the flow loses its forward momentum. This condition is producing the sandbar that is forming at the month of the ocean as noted by Redfish Rick being able to walk the width of the mouth. To me it appears it is just a matter of time before it closes up.

What if design was revised so that Vinson Slough had its own channel going to the ocean and tying into CB channel near or at the ocean mouth? The VS channel would start at VS mouth and slope in a straight line to hit the CB channel at the ocean mouth and enter in a â€œYâ€ formation. This appears similar to what some of the old drawings show. This would allow waters from both areas to flow out in a straight stable flow all the way to the ocean. As the two flows combine at the â€œYâ€, there would be enough forward momentum built up in both streams to push the waters into the ocean. There would be some turbulence when the two flows combine but that would help to gouge out a channel into the ocean. The key would be that both streams flow in a straight stable condition allowing plenty of momentum to build at the ocean mouth where it is needed to carry the flow into the ocean. This should prevent any sandbar from building.


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## Im Headed South

Video from the Opening Day.


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## southpaw

Just Casting said:


> The key would be that both streams flow in a straight stable condition allowing plenty of momentum to build at the ocean mouth where it is needed to carry the flow into the ocean. This should prevent any sandbar from building.


This would be great if the current always flows out of the bay, but as we know it goes both ways and changes with the tide. Also, you have to consider longshore currents, which I think on the lower coast can move either North or South depending on the prevailing wind/wave direction. These currents could either help or hurt the mouth of the cut.

Hydraulics and sediment transport in a bay system are pretty complex matters. The structure of the bayou is for sure going to change over the years. I think right now we're just seeing it trying to reach an equilibrium point. Additionally, we've got really high tides right now bc of the fall equinox. Who knows, maybe when all that water dumps out in the winter it'll gouge out the whole bayou. Only time will tell


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## Just Casting

Southpaw your comments are good and greatly appreciated. One reason for making my comments was to get people to observe, think, analyze and comment about what is going on in the channels. The overhead pictures by Im Headed South are most valuable as well as comments on flows. As you noted flows are both ways and changes. I stuck with just commenting on the outflow because that is what will keep the channels cleaned out by pushing out any incoming sand. 

You are right about hydraulics and sediment transport in a bay system being complex matters. To me this is an argument for a smooth design. I just donâ€™t like the way Vinson Slough is tied into the main channel. There is a lot of flow coming out of Vinson Slough and this is messing up the flow pattern in the main channel. The result is the scouring we are seeing downstream of the VS entry point. The high tides you mentioned should actually be making this system work at its optimal operation. I would think we should see a channel being formed at the ocean instead of a sandbar. 

The high flow rates we are seeing appear to me to be an argument against having to have a jetty system. A smoothly designed system should keep the channels cleaned out. I hope I am wrong about this and the system stays open. It will not bother me to have somebody tell me â€œYou were wrongâ€. As you said, only time will tell.

Now if it closes, do we dredge again and again and keep the present design? Do we study the pictures and comments and make a reevaluation? Would making a clear plastic scale model of the system be worthwhile? You could use dye or different density plastic spheres for the different streams and observe the flow. The model could be flexible to allow various schemes to be evaluated like the one I noted earlier.

Guys I fish. I want Cedar Bayou to stay open like the rest of you. Iâ€™m just throwing out observations.


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## jampen

The orientation and flow of those two channels have been that way, and worked, for a long time, until artificially closed.

It should return to its historic size and shape without too much more help.

The only real wild-card is the ICW and how much it changes the amount of water movement. It could add water to help keep the pass open or it could scavenge flow from the pass.


----------



## southpaw

Just Casting said:


> Southpaw your comments are good and greatly appreciated. One reason for making my comments was to get people to observe, think, analyze and comment about what is going on in the channels.


I hear you, I was just furthering the discussion, not say you were wrong. Just saying there are other variables that play into this.



> I just donâ€™t like the way Vinson Slough is tied into the main channel. There is a lot of flow coming out of Vinson Slough and this is messing up the flow pattern in the main channel. The result is the scouring we are seeing downstream of the VS entry point. The high tides you mentioned should actually be making this system work at its optimal operation. I would think we should see a channel being formed at the ocean instead of a sandbar.


Not necessarily, mean sea level is up slightly right now so essentially a bunch of sediment got carried in that is still sitting there. Once MSL drops back down during the winter all that water dumping out could clear everything out. It's just speculation though.



> The high flow rates we are seeing appear to me to be an argument against having to have a jetty system. A smoothly designed system should keep the channels cleaned out. I hope I am wrong about this and the system stays open. It will not bother me to have somebody tell me â€œYou were wrongâ€. As you said, only time will tell.


I'm not so sure about the whole argument of a "smoothly designed system." I see your point, but again that would work if the flow was always one way. Once the flow stops and changes direction, all of that sediment that traveled with it stops and moves the other way. In general though the sediment will travel slightly further in one direction. 
Also, I'm not sure how much flow VS is contributing or how exactly it's affecting things. It's doing something as we can see, but I'm willing to give it time before saying it's good or bad. I'm actually interested in why VS wasn't dredged all the way to the bay as well.


> Now if it closes, do we dredge again and again and keep the present design? Do we study the pictures and comments and make a reevaluation? Would making a clear plastic scale model of the system be worthwhile? You could use dye or different density plastic spheres for the different streams and observe the flow. The model could be flexible to allow various schemes to be evaluated like the one I noted earlier.
> Guys I fish. I want Cedar Bayou to stay open like the rest of you. Iâ€™m just throwing out observations.


I think they did do some computer models of the design they chose and I thought someone mentioned on here that the way it's behaving now is actually what the models were showing. Could be wrong though. As for building scale models, I can't see those being very accurate. You have to scale off of other parameters than just length for flow models and it can get really really complicated really fast. I just hope for the best with it. Just remember this cut is a fish pass, not a boat cut so even if the mouth silts in some, it's not a killer.


----------



## Neumie

Bored at the office on a slow Friday, so here are all the aerial photos of Cedar Bayou/Vension Slough I could find online.

1969 - USGS









1972 - USGS









1979 - USGS









1979 - USGS









1982 - USGS









1989 - USGS









1989 - Google Earth









1995 - Google Earth









2000 - Google Earth


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## jampen

1972 looks like the way it should be.


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## Sgrem

Goes to show you how much things change and adjust....very dynamic flow hydraulics in that area.


----------



## Just Casting

The "Y" formation tie-ins I talked about for Cedar Bayou and Vinson Slough sure seems apparent in the old pictures.


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## Im Headed South

Any after pic after 79 is pretty much useless as Vinson slough was never opened back up correctly following the closure for the oil spill. Also when looking at the 72 pic, you need to remember one of the most powerful hurricanes to ever hit Tx (Celia) went dang near right over the top of Cedar less than 2 years prior to the pic.


----------



## jampen

That's what I was thinking. No matter what you do...your average tropical storm will re-do


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## Its Catchy

I will be willing to bet anyone a six pack of choice that the cut is closed within 2 years without additional dredging.

Any takers?


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## Spots and Dots

Its Catchy said:


> I will be willing to bet anyone a six pack of choice that the cut is closed within 2 years without additional dredging.
> 
> Any takers?


What's handy is that maintenance is already budgeted for the next long time.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## JoshJ

From 2:30 today. I have more that I will post tomorrow when I get to a real computer


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## SolarScreenGuy

Its Catchy said:


> I will be willing to bet anyone a six pack of choice that the cut is closed within 2 years without additional dredging.
> 
> Any takers?


Your on! Thing is, those passes (CB/VS) have an historical footprint buried deep beneath the sand where the recent dredge has taken place. As the strong currents start with the upcoming winter season, the scouring effect will begin to take place and the passes will seek the opening that they had many moons ago. Hide and watch. This is going to be fun!


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## makoclay

So are they finished with the job and has all the equipment been demobilized?


----------



## Sgrem

Dude really? These questions kill me....


----------



## Just Casting

Joshj, is the overhead picture you just posted an incoming or outgoing flow? The same question is for Capt Justin on #318 and Im Headed South on #332. Whenever anybody attaches an overhead shot or shots it would be very helpful to let us know the direction of flow. Looking at the pictures it is hard for me to tell exactly which way the flow is going.

Is that a bar forming at the tie-in from Vinson Slough? It is hard to tell from the picture. A picture showing that area would be helpful.

Anybody out there have a drone? This would be a perfect place to use it and take some overhead videos of the flows around the VS tie-in and downstream to the ocean and share it with us.

The news just said that the Sid Richardson foundation awarded $ million dollars for the maintenance fund.


----------



## JoshJ

These were about 2:30pm on Sunday. According to the tide chart the tide was just turning in. I fly into Rockport at least twice a month or more. I will try to get pictures on every trip, weather permitting.


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## JoshJ

This is the best one I have of the Vinson's tie in. I did not notice the build up there until we got home and looked at the pictures.


----------



## dolch

it's going to be cool to see what the first hard blue northern does to the channel. The hard falling tide seems like it would be beneficial.


----------



## daryl1979

This is a ground shot looking at Vinson Slough. From Saturday around 9:30 am


----------



## aggiefishinDr

Great pictures guys!!!! Thanks for the updates


----------



## Just Casting

daryl1979 said:


> View attachment 1742689
> 
> This is a ground shot looking at Vinson Slough. From Saturday around 9:30 am


I suppose that must be part of the "no boat area". If not, it would be nice to see some sonar readings.


----------



## TrueblueTexican

*Dr Watson of Coastal Geology*

Estimates two years before maintenance would be needed - ya'll got to remember BEFORE the ICW this pass maintained itself, and was really big right after Carla, it began sanding down slowly and periodically open after some big blows WITHOUT dredging since - as said there is an old channel somewhat tapped into by the new dredge, and more of a mud marl underlayer in the old channel - winter tides will be the main factor to cutting out the sand and longshore current directions --right now and for some time its going to change weekly till some natural equilibrium is established - big floods inland would help- stopping the scouring at Matagorda ship channel would help - oyster stands re-devoping in both channels would help as well -

This is an interesting time lapse study.


----------



## daryl1979

Just Casting said:


> I suppose that must be part of the "no boat area". If not, it would be nice to see some sonar readings.


Yes it's about 200 yards past the no boat sign. I would say some of the spots are neck deep looking at some of the waders that were fishing.


----------



## Agwader

awesome, thanks for the pictures Josh.


----------



## Im Headed South

Just Casting said:


> The news just said that the Sid Richardson foundation awarded $ million dollars for the maintenance fund.


That is correct, for those that do not know the Bass Family and the Sid Richardson foundation are one in the same. So many things I'd like to say in regards to that given the past accusations by some but I think I'll just leave it alone. Pretty good start for the maintenance fund to go along with the county's annual commitment.


----------



## dolch

Just curious, how long would a jetty have to be to be effective? It sure seems like a costly solution that would pay itself off over the years. 

I would think that we could even get funding volunteered for the project.


----------



## southpaw

dolch said:


> Just curious, how long would a jetty have to be to be effective? It sure seems like a costly solution that would pay itself off over the years.


Hard to say. Probably wouldn't have to be too long to be effective, but jetties can cause other problems. Again I'm not sure specifically what it could do, but it could cause other nearby areas to silt in or gouge out. But remember CB doesn't have to stay really deep either, it's not a shipping or boating channel, like Port A. It's a fish pass and serves to circulate the bay. It doesn't need to be extremely deep or extremely wide to do that.



> I would think that we could even get funding volunteered for the project.


I don't know, putting jetties in takes a lot and I mean a lot of rock. Rock that has to first be laid as a base and built up like a pyramid. All of that rock adds up and I can't imagine transporting all of that rock to a semi remote location like CB would be a cheap undertaking.


----------



## Dick Hanks

Any current fishing reports from the areas affected by the pass?

Do the "no boats beyond" signs apply to non motorized , like kayaks as well?


----------



## southpaw

Dick Hanks said:


> Any current fishing reports from the areas affected by the pass?
> 
> Do the "no boats beyond" signs apply to non motorized , like kayaks as well?


Redfish are everywhere right now but I don't think that has anything to do with the pass being opened.


----------



## Im Headed South

Researchers and students with the Center for Sportfish Science and Conservation were out only a few days after Cedar Bayou had been opened to do some preliminary sampling assessments. They were pleasantly surprised to already find a high abundance of very young and newly recruited red drum to the area.Â While the post-studies are just in the beginning phase, this is certainly a very positive sign of the impact the Bayou will have.Â In stark contrast, the pre-studies in this immediate area over the prior two year period showed an absence of these fish when the inlet was closed even after intensive sampling. Now, only days after opening, it appears that the young larvae and early juveniles of spawning redfish and small fish about the size of a pinky nail in the Gulf have already found their way through the inlet to access the lush nursery habitats in the region. This is a remarkable finding, given that we are just beginning to enter the spawning phase for red drum. Things should only get better as the peak of spawning season begins.


----------



## Redfish Rick

*Fence along North shore of Carlos Bay*

Does anyone know when they will remove the 3 mile long orange fence that runs along the NW shore of Carlos bay? I thought that was part of the Cedar Bayou project as a shoregrass replanting mitigation area. Looking along the fence last week there were thousands of dead redfish and mullet that were caught in the fence. It is acting like a giant gill net running down the shoreline.

From what I have seen, this fence and grass re-planting operation is the biggest waste of money and time. They are attempting to plant shore-grass on a shoreline with mostly hard oyster beaches, stupid.....

The fence is blocking access to prime shoreline for wadefishing during the fall and winter months, and is killing thousands of fish daily. Also, the people who built the fence have left a tremendous amount of trash on the water. PVC poles, metal stakes, and extra fence material are littered everywhere on the bottom for miles along the shoreline just outside the fence.


----------



## jampen

This is serious...how about some pics.

Thousands of dead fish per day will get some attention real quick


----------



## Just Casting

TrueblueTexican said:


> Estimates two years before maintenance would be needed - ya'll got to remember BEFORE the ICW this pass maintained itself, and was really big right after Carla, it began sanding down slowly and periodically open after some big blows WITHOUT dredging since - as said there is an old channel somewhat tapped into by the new dredge, and more of a mud marl underlayer in the old channel - winter tides will be the main factor to cutting out the sand and longshore current directions --right now and for some time its going to change weekly till some natural equilibrium is established - big floods inland would help- stopping the scouring at Matagorda ship channel would help - oyster stands re-devoping in both channels would help as well -
> 
> This is an interesting time lapse study.


I hear what you are saying and can visualize big blows opening things up more. Yes this thing will change until it finds equilibrium. Presently I am still convinced that a different tie-in configuration for Vinson Slough would greatly help things.

If the present VS tie-in point is forming a sandbar, then the outgoing flows may not be as great as I thought or maybe it is trying to work its way toward the ocean. If the flows from VS are not as great then the scouring is most likely from the inlet tide flows. Looking at the overhead pictures I can visualize this. I believe the â€œYâ€ tie-in for VS being a better alternative for this case also.

I was told that during the last two dredging operations, the material was put on the beach by VS and that contributed to the closing off of VS and finally closing off Cedar Bayou. If VS now closes off, there goes that theory on material being put in the wrong place.

I agree with you that this is an interesting time lapse study. It will reach some kind of equilibrium and it will be fun to watch and speculate on whatâ€™s happening.


----------



## Im Headed South

Redfish Rick said:


> Does anyone know when they will remove the 3 mile long orange fence that runs along the NW shore of Carlos bay? I thought that was part of the Cedar Bayou project as a shoregrass replanting mitigation area. Looking along the fence last week there were thousands of dead redfish and mullet that were caught in the fence. It is acting like a giant gill net running down the shoreline.
> 
> From what I have seen, this fence and grass re-planting operation is the biggest waste of money and time. They are attempting to plant shore-grass on a shoreline with mostly hard oyster beaches, stupid.....
> 
> The fence is blocking access to prime shoreline for wadefishing during the fall and winter months, and is killing thousands of fish daily. Also, the people who built the fence have left a tremendous amount of trash on the water. PVC poles, metal stakes, and extra fence material are littered everywhere on the bottom for miles along the shoreline just outside the fence.


You can thank the feds for that, they had to re-plant grass to replace the grass that would have never been growing in CB and VS if they'd done their job correctly years ago. That grass has to monitored for either 3 or 5 years I can't remember which, if a certain percentage dies off then they have to replant it and the clock starts over.....and folks wonder why the price tag was so high. Last I heard the salinity levels did in a bunch of what they planted so it will need to be replanted and the clock starts over again. I'll pass the info along asap, we've fished up there several times this summer and never saw any dead fish but I could see how it could happen given the recent bull tides and the amount of water that got behind the fence.


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## Redfish Rick

*fence*

Here is why the fish are dying along and inside the fence... The water levels have been very high for over a month now. Yesterday evening, the tide dropped out a bunch, trapping most of the small fish behind the fence along with a few larger reds, drum, and flounder. The bottom portion of the fence that was below the waterline for the last month is now closed in solid with marine growth on the fence material. Last night, I tried to flounder gig along a portion of the fence as the tide was dropping. There were fish flopping on the dry land everywhere behind the fence as the tide quickly went out, trapping the fish behind it, with no holes in the fence for escape. They do have small 2' breaks in the fence about every 30 yards, but they seem to be ineffective. We noticed at least 50 small redfish trapped in the mesh of the fence, caught by their gills as they tried to squeeze through. The most frustrating part for me is that I can no longer gig flounder along this 3-4 mile stretch of shore, as the fence is set out 20 feet from the bank in most spots, blocking off all access to the shallow shore areas.

This project seems bad on all levels: It is a waste of money to plant grass where it wont grow to begin with, it is an ecologiocal disaster to the estuary species that rely on that shoreline, it blocks access to multiple user groups, and it creates a bunch of trash and waste in the water along its edge...

Rick


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## TrueblueTexican

*Nothing a sharp knife*



Redfish Rick said:


> Here is why the fish are dying along and inside the fence... The water levels have been very high for over a month now. Yesterday evening, the tide dropped out a bunch, trapping most of the small fish behind the fence along with a few larger reds, drum, and flounder. The bottom portion of the fence that was below the waterline for the last month is now closed in solid with marine growth on the fence material. Last night, I tried to flounder gig along a portion of the fence as the tide was dropping. There were fish flopping on the dry land everywhere behind the fence as the tide quickly went out, trapping the fish behind it, with no holes in the fence for escape. They do have small 2' breaks in the fence about every 30 yards, but they seem to be ineffective. We noticed at least 50 small redfish trapped in the mesh of the fence, caught by their gills as they tried to squeeze through. The most frustrating part for me is that I can no longer gig flounder along this 3-4 mile stretch of shore, as the fence is set out 20 feet from the bank in most spots, blocking off all access to the shallow shore areas.
> 
> This project seems bad on all levels: It is a waste of money to plant grass where it wont grow to begin with, it is an ecologiocal disaster to the estuary species that rely on that shoreline, it blocks access to multiple user groups, and it creates a bunch of trash and waste in the water along its edge...
> 
> Rick


Won't take care of - if its farked up an easy fix -- what a bunch of maroons we have running the show - I saw it last week , but didn't see gilled fish then -


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## Bob Haley

Please take pictures to prove the case and have it documented so the "so called" folks in charge can be held responsible and hopefully they wont make this same stupid mistake again. More of a actual study needs to be done by locals before all this waste happens and tax dollars spent. IMO


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## Redfish Rick

I will try to get some pictures later this week. Since I am on the water mainly at night, it is hard to get pictures of what is going on. As soon as I can get over there during the day, I can show whats going on.


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## Trouthunter

Since you're on the water at night....fences can just vanish some times. 

TH


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## Its Catchy

SolarScreenGuy said:


> Your on! Thing is, those passes (CB/VS) have an historical footprint buried deep beneath the sand where the recent dredge has taken place. As the strong currents start with the upcoming winter season, the scouring effect will begin to take place and the passes will seek the opening that they had many moons ago. Hide and watch. This is going to be fun!


Deal!

The San Bernard had a historical footprint for ages. It filled in, was dredged and filled right back in within two years. The dredging of the intracoastal re-routed the flow down to the "new Brazos". The blue northers that hit this winter will just bottom out the tide of the pass and it will close within two years.


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## KDubBlast

Its Catchy said:


> Deal!
> 
> The San Bernard had a historical footprint for ages. It filled in, was dredged and filled right back in within two years. The dredging of the intracoastal re-routed the flow down to the "new Brazos". The blue northers that hit this winter will just bottom out the tide of the pass and it will close within two years.


So optimistic. Don't know why people just cant be happy that it opened. Seems like yall just want to find something to circle jerk about


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## aguaflaca

Its Catchy said:


> Deal!
> 
> The San Bernard had a historical footprint for ages. It filled in, was dredged and filled right back in within two years. The dredging of the intracoastal re-routed the flow down to the "new Brazos". The blue northers that hit this winter will just bottom out the tide of the pass and it will close within two years.


I've got some real good cheese that would go with that whine.


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## aguaflaca

for the people who have to be negative about something that can only be positive, another great article and another $1,000,000 for the maintenance fund.

A permanent flow for Cedar Bayou.

Wed Oct 15, 2014 6:51 PM CDT

ROCKPORT â€" This is for all the naysayers who insist forces of nature and man would win the battle that determines whether water will again and forever separate San Jose and Matagorda islands.

The effort to maintain Cedar Bayou as an open and viable fish pass north of Rockport received a perpetual boost this week when the Sid W. Richardson Foundation donated $1 million to keep it flowing. The grant actually went to the Texas Parks & Wildlife Foundation, which will dole out funds as needed to the Aransas County Commissioners Court for dredging when needed.

The much-anticipated reopening of Cedar Bayou was accomplished Sept. 25 after about 20 years of frustration and effort involving sweat, squabbling, bureaucratic hurdles, political wrangling, financial difficulties and tedious negotiations over a federal permit. Leadership in this environmental restoration project began to jell about five years ago, when Aransas County Judge Burt Mills and the Coastal Conservation Association of Texas mustered the will necessary to remove 750,000 cubic yards of sand and silt from a newly designed path for Cedar Bayou and Vinson Slough. They secured the money, then got the go-ahead permit in August 2011.

Dredging began around April 15, when Randy Boyd and his Port Lavaca company, RLB Contracting, began working 12-hour days to beat an Oct. 15 deadline set by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers. This deadline roughly coincided with the anticipated arrival of the first whooping cranes that winter in the region.

Engineers at Coast and Harbor Engineering designed two cuts from Mesquite Bay they believe will keep the pass scoured. The channels are 6 feet deep and 100 feet wide. These merge into a single channel and continue to the Gulf of Mexico at a southeast angle. The opened pass would create the only gulf access between Pass Cavallo at Port Oâ€™Connor and Aransas Pass at Port Aransas, about a 70-mile stretch.

The total length of Cedar Bayou is about 8,500 feet, or 1.6 miles. The second channel, Vinson Slough, measures 7,700 feet, or 1.5 miles. Several witnesses said the pass was flowing nicely this week.

Researchers and students with the Center for Sportfish Science and Conservation at the Harte Research Institute for Gulf of Mexico Studies within days found an abundance of newly hatched red drum in the channel. Previous sampling resulting in virtually no tiny redfish near the closed pass.

Coast and Harbor engineers estimate the cost of keeping Cedar Bayou flowing could run between $2 million and $2.5 million every five to nine years. Aransas County has pledged to contribute $250,000 annually in addition to the interest accrued by the perpetual maintenance fund held by the TPW Foundation.

The reopening cost about $9.4 million. The state came through with $3 million, which required matching funds or in-kind contributions from Aransas County. CCA-Texas helped with another $1.6 million. To date, Aransas County has garnered $3.8 million for the project, much of it from grants administered by the Texas General Land Office.

Now for those who may be unfamiliar with the name associated with the foundation that granted $1 million to maintain Cedar Bayou, I will endeavor to enlighten through the writings of my friend, colleague and Caller-Times history columnist Murphy Givens. Givens has mentioned Sid Richardson several times in his columns, but Iâ€™ll reference one from 2012.

He describes Richardson as a â€œFort Worth wildcatter who amassed an immense fortuneâ€ and bought the 17-mile long St. Josephâ€™s Island in 1936. Richardsonâ€™s wealth came from oil discovered in the 1930s in West Texas and a subsequent oil discovery in Louisiana. When Richardson died in 1959 he was the second richest man in Texas behind H.L. Hunt.

After buying the island, Richardson wanted a house built on it. So he hired his young nephew, a geologist named Perry Bass, for the job. Murphy described the island operation and the history that followed this way.

â€œRichardson ran 2,000 head of cattle on the island, kept a hunting reserve, and built a landing strip for important visitors. Dwight Eisenhower came to go duck-hunting in 1951 just before he ran for president. Sid Richardson died on St. Josephâ€™s on Sept. 30, 1959. He was 68 and had suffered an apparent heart attack. Richardson, a bachelor all his life, left $2.8 million to each of Perry Bassâ€™s four sons. The rest of his $105 million estate went to the Sid W. Richardson Foundation. Perry Bass inherited the island.â€

Bass later convinced the Texas Legislature to rename the island San Jose. The name was officially changed on Jan. 10, 1973. Bass, a former chairman of the Texas Parks & Wildlife Commission, died in 2006. So now you know the historic connections that contributed to this monumental accomplishment.

David Sikesâ€™ Outdoors columns appear Thursday and Sunday. Contact David at 361-886-3616 or [email protected]. Twitter: @DavidOutdoors.


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## Electra-Trout

KDubBlast said:


> So optimistic. Don't know why people just cant be happy that it opened. Seems like yall just want to find something to circle jerk about


I couldn't agree more. The opening will have nothing but positive impacts on the ecosystem and the economy. Plus the ones whining the most are the ones that'll be reaping the rewards. That's pretty sad.


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## Trouthunter

I wouldn't consider those who are concerned about problems in CB to be whining...I think a lot of people who are thrilled about the opening of CB, as I am, are simply holding their breath and hoping that the dredging works the way it is supposed to.

I'm going to stay optimistic and thrilled because having that pass open is just a HUGE blessing for the bay systems and us fishermen.

TH


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## Rubberback

No wine here. I wish they would open more passes.


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## Sgrem

........so when are they going to start digging over there? ?? :headknock


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## Its Catchy

KDubBlast said:


> So optimistic. Don't know why people just cant be happy that it opened. Seems like yall just want to find something to circle jerk about


I am just being realistic. If the pass had enough flow it never would have closed in the first place.

Being happy and gathering around the campfire singing kumbayah is not going to keep it open. It's going to take constant dredging and or jetties.


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## Sgrem

Its Catchy said:


> I am just being realistic. If the pass had enough flow it never would have closed in the first place.
> 
> Being happy and gathering around the campfire singing kumbayah is not going to keep it open. It's going to take constant dredging and or jetties.


Educate yourself bro. CB and VS has had plenty of flow to stay open for many decades maybe even centuries.....that is of course until MAN closed it .... in the first place.


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## Oyster Dog

sgrem said:


> Educate yourself bro. CB and VS has had plenty of flow to stay open for many decades maybe even centuries.....that is of course until MAN closed it .... in the first place.


Cedar Bayou was dredged in 1939, 1959, 1987, 1995 and now 2014. It will need to be dredged again.


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## Its Catchy

sgrem said:


> Educate yourself bro. CB and VS has had plenty of flow to stay open for many decades maybe even centuries.....that is of course until MAN closed it .... in the first place.


Sounds like you need the education. It's been dredged and dredged over and over again. In addition the dredging of the intracoastal changed everything.

I'm not against the pass being open, quite the opposite. I have seen this before and I know what its going to cost to keep it open.


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## Sgrem

Well that is valid....luckily they have a maintenance plan in place before they ever started this round of dredging.


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## cruss

*bayou*

The last two times it was dredged after it was closed by man vinson's slough was filled in and the pass was dredged to about half of what the original plan called for.


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## RubiconAg

Oyster Dog said:


> Cedar Bayou was dredged in 1939, 1959, 1987, 1995 and now 2014. It will need to be dredged again.


You are correct, it was dredge in those years but never dredged properly. This last round finally took into account the natural "dredging" that the pass did after major storms and before Xiuatu (SP?, major oil spill in bay of Campeche). This time they took into account computer modeling of the flow rates and volume along with the VS connection, not just CB, like what was done in previous dredges. I am completely optimistic that with minimal maintenance, strong northern winter storms and man not screwing it all up that it will maintain itself. Time will tell. Give it chance to find its own groove. When these high tides start ripping out to winter lows and maybe with some hopefull heavy rains it will find its groove. No kumbaya here, just a serious bought of hopefulness.


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## Its Catchy

I hope this is not apples to apples but I think the results will be the same.

The mouth of the San Bernard just before dredging was complete and several years later. Lesson learned? The intracoastal diverts too much of the historical flow.

I think the same thing will happen with Cedar Bayou


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## Sgrem

.....the same might happen....except for the ongoing future maintenance budget for CB/VS. 
History would say you might be right....except for the ongoing future maintenance budget for CB/VS.
It would be apples to apples.....except for the ongoing future maintenance budget for CB/VS.


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## Its Catchy

sgrem,

Who's paying for that and how much does it cost?
Who's paying for that and how much does it cost?
Who's paying for that and how much does it cost?


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## Stalkin Spots

Its Catchy said:


> sgrem,
> 
> Who's paying for that and how much does it cost?
> Who's paying for that and how much does it cost?
> Who's paying for that and how much does it cost?


According to the David Sikes article posted by aguaflaca, 2-2.5 million for maintenance. It will be paid for through donations made by folks like the Sid Richardson Foundation, likely CCA, and I believe I saw somewhere a portion of the hotel/motel tax we all pay every time we visit the area.

To your previous point, yes there have been a couple of half-hearted attempts to re-open CB after man closed off the flow to protect the bays from the Ixtoc oil spill. Prior to that it was a naturally flowing pass that did a pretty good job of keeping itself open.

Furthermore, the ICW between Corpus Christi and New Orleans was completed in 1942, 37 years before we dumped a whole bunch of sand in the mouth of CB/VS.


----------



## Agwader

Its Catchy said:


> I hope this is not apples to apples but I think the results will be the same.
> 
> The mouth of the San Bernard just before dredging was complete and several years later. Lesson learned? The intracoastal diverts too much of the historical flow.
> 
> I think the same thing will happen with Cedar Bayou


You'd think the San Bernard would require good flow coming out of the River to stay open as well, I wonder if the drought we've been in has anything to do with it being closed?


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## bigbarr

KDubBlast said:


> So optimistic. Don't know why people just cant be happy that it opened. Seems like yall just want to find something to circle jerk about


I dont understand this myself,,,,,No one said that after all this hard work was put into and money was raised for this project that it would be open forever,,,,without the cost of maintenance,,,,Its mother nature your dealing with,,,Im very happy its open again and really impressed by the hard work and donations it took to get to this point,,,,, Maybe anyone that wants to criticize and look at the glass half empty instead of half full needs to go to Austin and ask Gov. Perry if the state of Texas will flip the bill...


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## Its Catchy

Look guys, I don't want to be the party pooper. And I am a 100% for any beneficial cut restored to it's previous state. I am just pointing out that with out jetties and or constant dredging the pass is most likely going to fill back in.

We have been there done that with the San Bernard. 

In the case of the the San Bernard 100% of the focus was on "opening the pass" and 0% on keeping it open afterward. The result was millions in taxpayer money wasted. So all this 1/2 full guy is saying is lets look at whats been done in the past and learn from it.

If private sector dollars are used to maintain this I am even more for it say 110%!


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## Spots and Dots

Its Catchy said:


> Look guys, I don't want to be the party pooper. And I am a 100% for any beneficial cut restored to it's previous state. I am just pointing out that with out jetties and or constant dredging the pass is most likely going to fill back in.
> 
> We have been there done that with the San Bernard.
> 
> In the case of the the San Bernard 100% of the focus was on "opening the pass" and 0% on keeping it open afterward. The result was millions in taxpayer money wasted. So all this 1/2 full guy is saying is lets look at whats been done in the past and learn from it.
> 
> If private sector dollars are used to maintain this I am even more for it say 110%!


Good news for you!

$1m from the Sid Richardson Foundation
And annual budget $ from Aransas County

All for maintenance to keep CB flowing

All of the nay Sayers that are ' happy it's open, but think it'll close" need to put a lil money where your mouth is to help keep it flowing. Join CCA, go to a banquet, make a donation.....

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## aguaflaca

spots and dots said:


> good news for you!
> 
> $1m from the sid richardson foundation
> and annual budget $ from aransas county
> 
> all for maintenance to keep cb flowing
> 
> all of the nay sayers that are ' happy it's open, but think it'll close" need to put a lil money where your mouth is to help keep it flowing. Join cca, go to a banquet, make a donation.....
> 
> Sent from my ipad using tapatalk


x 1000


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## TrueblueTexican

*I have been involved in Cedar Bayou*

Since I was a four year old , first from fishing it weekly to lobby and money for dredges.

FOR ALL YOU POINTING FINGERS AT THE BASS RICHARDSON FAMILY DURING THE PROPOSED RE-OPENING

The Sid Richardson Foundation is the one footing the majority of the maintenance bill.

I FISHED with Perry Bass his nephew and many of his heirs (not much love there from Fulton/Rockport)

It really pixxed me off the IDIOTS around here who put out so much LYING information about the family holding up the dredging.

The Richardson/Bass family should be THANKED that even though St Joe is privately held, it has been a trust enjoyed by all Texans, and not only that, the family/foundation has arguably done more for coastal fishing and in fact all fishing in Texas than any family before or since.

I HAVE seen the pass in many stages, have caught fish there till my arms fell off, and I am so happy now its open and hopeful it can and will be maintained for my grandkids.

I am also a REALIST it won't stay open NOW without dredges, because the climate has changed radically in the last 30 years. In the sixties when it naturally stayed OPEN Texas had approximately 10 million residents, and was flush with freshwater. Flash forward to 2014 Texas has about 30 million residents using UP all the available freshwater, about ten million of those residents concentrated in the freshwater aquifers which feed the mid coast bay systems.

Of course it took a lot of rah, rah, pie in the sky, reasons to get it re-opened once more, but the END PRODUCT is maybe it will always be so.


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## fishnvet

I have a question. This is an honest question for those who have viewed the re-opening of the cut. I happened to fish the area this weekend and thought I'd go check it out, and see how it looks now. I parked about 20 yards shy of the "no vessels past this point" sign. I was watching the surf from a distance, thinking about walking thru the dunes, when I noticed lots of bait in the current by the boat. I jumped out and started chunking a lure, and found the bottom firm there. I walked all the way to the other bank and I never got more than waist deep. I was surprised at how shallow it was. Is the cut by the no boats sign the main cut to Mesquite? Tide was moving in pretty good but I figured it would be a deeper cut like the old cut was. Maybe there is another cut (besides Vinson's) that I missed. When running in I was in 6-8 ft of water til the last couple hundred yards before the sign, when it got shallow. Also, could you use a kayak past the sign? It'd be fun to paddle around and check it out.


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## TrueblueTexican

*Just depends*

Depths vary due to tides and currents - but for the last twenty years it was seldom over waist deep - the best fishing is the up current side of the surf immediately in front of the pass - fish stack up waiting on mullet to come thru.

In years past redfish tailed by the thousands on the backside at Mesquite, all along the shallow flats -

It says no boats beyond - that would likely include kayaks to be fair to all.

We used to run the surf from Pass Cavallo fishing old wrecks, then anchor up in first gut hop out and fish the pass - always came back with full coolers.

Some of the best coastal fishing around is the run from Pass Cavallo to Cedar Bayou - its seldom gets fished because its normally pretty rough.


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## whiskeydent

Is it possible that some of the redfish that move to the Gulf through POC or PA this year will come back through CB?


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## jodybo

*No Boats?*

What is the purpose of the no boats rule? Why not let boats run out to the gulf?

Also, I was under the impression that the depth of the bayou from Mesquite out to the Gulf would be ~6ft. Is that not the case?


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## Z

Redfish Rick said:


> Here is why the fish are dying along and inside the fence... The water levels have been very high for over a month now. Yesterday evening, the tide dropped out a bunch, trapping most of the small fish behind the fence along with a few larger reds, drum, and flounder. The bottom portion of the fence that was below the waterline for the last month is now closed in solid with marine growth on the fence material. Last night, I tried to flounder gig along a portion of the fence as the tide was dropping. There were fish flopping on the dry land everywhere behind the fence as the tide quickly went out, trapping the fish behind it, with no holes in the fence for escape. They do have small 2' breaks in the fence about every 30 yards, but they seem to be ineffective. We noticed at least 50 small redfish trapped in the mesh of the fence, caught by their gills as they tried to squeeze through. The most frustrating part for me is that I can no longer gig flounder along this 3-4 mile stretch of shore, as the fence is set out 20 feet from the bank in most spots, blocking off all access to the shallow shore areas.
> 
> This project seems bad on all levels: It is a waste of money to plant grass where it wont grow to begin with, it is an ecologiocal disaster to the estuary species that rely on that shoreline, it blocks access to multiple user groups, and it creates a bunch of trash and waste in the water along its edge...
> 
> Rick


This is something that needs to be brought up. Captain Rick, would you sign a letter to CCA addressing the issue?

I go past this fence often on my way to Cedar Dugout and the little warden shack on Third Chain but never really knew the extent of the problem...:headknock


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## Im Headed South

Z said:


> This is something that needs to be brought up. Captain Rick, would you sign a letter to CCA addressing the issue?
> 
> I go past this fence often on my way to Cedar Dugout and the little warden shack on Third Chain but never really knew the extent of the problem...:headknock


Have you thought to stop and look at the fence since your passing right by it anyway? Plenty of interested folks are still waiting for the pictures, I can tell you multiple people have looked for the "1000's" of dead fish in the fence including myself and they've yet to be found. I did see why a flounder guide wouldn't like the fence being up in the area


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## aggiefishinDr

jodybo said:


> What is the purpose of the no boats rule? Why not let boats run out to the gulf?
> 
> Also, I was under the impression that the depth of the bayou from Mesquite out to the Gulf would be ~6ft. Is that not the case?


 I was wondering the same thing about the boats? Why the rule? Anyways with that said I know of some boats that have gone in and out already.


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## Agwader

aggiefishinDr said:


> I was wondering the same thing about the boats? Why the rule? Anyways with that said I know of some boats that have gone in and out already.


I was at the mouth last Sunday and the deepest part of the pass was about waist deep (the 6' depth is long gone) and it's only about 2' deep the last 100 yards or so before you get to the "no more Boats" sign. Unless you knew exactly where the skinny channels are in the mouth going out to the Gulf you probably run a ground trying to get through there. I guess if Jetties were put in it would make the depth greater but most people aren't getting a boat threw there if they wanted to anyway. Also, the intent of opening up this pass was for fish to access the bay system, I'm sure if there were a bunch of boats running through the pass you'd probably spook a lot the fish trying to make their way through.


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## Im Headed South

I'll try one last time on the boat issue, if someone has run through there they broke the law. Just about every time I've been out there someone drives right pass the sign and I'll politely point the sign out. Like with most things it's only going to take a few jackass's to ruin it for everyone. It's a fish pass, a fish pass is not a navigable waterway by state law. A fish pass such as this one changes with every tide, sand shifts to different areas and a spot that's 4' deep today could very well be a foot deep 2 days later. I've seen it with my own eyes out there and I know how much it changes, the state doesn't want someone running aground out there, sinking a boat or getting killed because 2 days before they made it just fine on the same line. Lots of folks were talking about the plug that formed in the mouth of VS last week and I saw people walking across as late as Sunday, well a couple of days with a wind shift and I saw a aerial photo taken at 4pm yesterday and all that sand is now gone. I had a chance to listen to the project engineers presentation last night at a meeting and their prediction model is dead on with what's happening out there. If that model holds true they fully expect the mouth of CB where it meets the gulf to move south up to 3500' over the next 15 years or so just like the old historical photographs show it did back before the oil spill closed off VS. That constant movement is exactly why he said jetty's wouldn't work out there even if you had unlimited funds and a go ahead from the feds. Unless you ran a jetty almost all the way to Mesquite Bay he said the jettys would sand in and the mouth would continue to try and work it's way south along the beach. The meeting was a great opportunity to see the science that went into the design, multiple designs were investigated over a period of 8 years leading up to the permitting process, a lot more went into the design than most folks think in my opinion.


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## Phlip

*Phlip*

You guys can argue over how long it will stay open or not and who may be at fault for it closing up till I catch all of the fish.
I'm just happy the dredge equipment has gone and I have my fishing hole back.
I didn't see many folks out there the last seven years since it closed off. 
The surf fishing was still great in the summer thru December when the sea grass wasn't too bad and the surf was not roaring.
I was out there this past week on Thursday and then again on Saturday and i'll be there again this friday. 
So when you figure out it doesn't mattter who or why grab a rod and hit the water.


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## jampen

I don't think ANY "fence" should extend below the water line and definitely not all the way to the bottom...ignorant


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## Agwader

Im Headed South said:


> I'll try one last time on the boat issue, if someone has run through there they broke the law. Just about every time I've been out there someone drives right pass the sign and I'll politely point the sign out. Like with most things it's only going to take a few jackass's to ruin it for everyone. It's a fish pass, a fish pass is not a navigable waterway by state law. A fish pass such as this one changes with every tide, sand shifts to different areas and a spot that's 4' deep today could very well be a foot deep 2 days later. I've seen it with my own eyes out there and I know how much it changes, the state doesn't want someone running aground out there, sinking a boat or getting killed because 2 days before they made it just fine on the same line. Lots of folks were talking about the plug that formed in the mouth of VS last week and I saw people walking across as late as Sunday, well a couple of days with a wind shift and I saw a aerial photo taken at 4pm yesterday and all that sand is now gone. I had a chance to listen to the project engineers presentation last night at a meeting and their prediction model is dead on with what's happening out there. If that model holds true they fully expect the mouth of CB where it meets the gulf to move south up to 3500' over the next 15 years or so just like the old historical photographs show it did back before the oil spill closed off VS. That constant movement is exactly why he said jetty's wouldn't work out there even if you had unlimited funds and a go ahead from the feds. Unless you ran a jetty almost all the way to Mesquite Bay he said the jettys would sand in and the mouth would continue to try and work it's way south along the beach. The meeting was a great opportunity to see the science that went into the design, multiple designs were investigated over a period of 8 years leading up to the permitting process, a lot more went into the design than most folks think in my opinion.


Great info. One question though, if they expect the mouth to move South some 3500' why didn't they just dig and dredge 3500' to the South to begin with?


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## Im Headed South

Agwader said:


> Great info. One question though, if they expect the mouth to move South some 3500' why didn't they just dig and dredge 3500' to the South to begin with?


 The current design provided the most hydraulic pressure to keep the pass open on it's own in all scenarios, they ran several different scenarios including extreme drought conditions like they consider the current conditions. Looking back on my notes they actually expect it to move about 5000' to the south to the high dune line now that the sand plug in front of VS has been removed. Once it's gone as far south as it can it will actually reverse course and start moving back to the north on it's own but at a slower rate. It's always moving.


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## Im Headed South

jampen said:


> I don't think ANY "fence" should extend below the water line and definitely not all the way to the bottom...ignorant


Yea I'm sure folks with the same mentality as the ones that drive right by the sign out in the bayou would avoid the planted grass sprigs by just asking them to, that shoreline is a air boat highway especially in a north wind during duck season. It really doesn't impact me and I haven't seen the 1000's of dead fish but maybe a few of y'all can take it up with the COE as they're requiring that fence to be up to the grass starts growing and it must be monitored for the next 5 years. Here some pics of the fence in question during a pretty high tide.


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## jampen

Looks like the grass is doing just fine...outside the fence









Looks to me like somebody is trying to block off the shoreline there from boats. Who owns that stretch of land right there? Looks like a really nice spot to wade and swim...

Who owns that fence? It should be marked.


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## Spots and Dots

Marked??.


Can you not see a big orange fence?


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## jampen

Labelled, signage, ownership...


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## Im Headed South

GLO land, go read the COE permit it's all in there.


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## ROCKPORTFISHERMAN

Headed South,
Enjoyed the speech last night at the Elks! You hit exactly what was said. My wife and I are headed down Friday and will be there all weekend. Will report back what i see and send some pics.


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## gater

*Pass*

I would guess with millions dedicated for maintenance dredging they don't expect to stay open either, I have always said that it would close back up and think that way!


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## Redfish Rick

*The fence*

My comments about the fence in Carlos Bay killing 1000's of fish is the real deal. I don't have any pictures to prove it, yet, and I never thought to take pictures the night I witnessed the low tide fish kill. You have to understand that the right set of conditions has to unfold to cause the localized fish kill that I witnessed earlier this month. The night that I witnessed this, the tide dropped nearly 2 feet in a matter of a few hours. The tide had been very high for a few days, and then fell rapidly with the passing cold front. There were a bunch of small redfish, mullet, pin perch, etc that were simply trapped behind the fence as the tide fell. A few were caught in the mesh of the fence trying to escape, but the vast majority were laying dead on the newly dry ground behind the fence. Blue Herons, Crested Night Herons, and White Egrets/Herons were everywhere feasting on the trapped fish. Im sure if you go there at any other time, you wont see much in the way of trapped fish. Just wait until the first big cold front in November, and I will be there with a camera to catch it...

At one point, the fence runs for over a mile, unbroken, with only small 6" gaps every 20 yards or so. There are some other areas in the fence with larger gaps and breaks in the fence, and these areas showed no signs of a fish kill that night. There is a bunch of marine growth on the fence (slime, barnacles, and moss) that almost completely seals off the fence below the normal water line. Once the tide drops, this becomes a barrier to the fish escaping.

Yes, I do have a conflict of interest regarding the fence, as it shuts off over 3 miles of prime shoreline for flounder gigging during north or light wind periods. I can get over the loss of this shore, as I have plenty of other places to go. My concern is that this type of project will happen again in other areas. Just imagine if the Feds closed off 3 miles of your favorite shoreline to wadefish or gig for 5 years. Just think if large portions of the St. Joe Island shoreline had a fence 10 yards off the bank, in the name of shore grass/cord grass restoration? The North shoreline of Carlos Bay is not a heavy traffic area, I guess its "out of sight, out of mind". Those who know this shoreline well know that shore-grass will never grow along most of it because of the hard oyster along the banks. Shore-grass essentially grows everywhere it can around this area, and where it doesn't grow now, it will probably never grow. If the conditions along this shoreline do not support shore-grass now, what makes the people involved with this project think they can make it grow by planting it unnaturally in this area?

I feel the whole Cedar Bayou shore-grass mitigation project is a great way to waste taxpayers money. These kind of projects give true conservation a bad name, and it is only a matter of time before they pick a shore near you to for their next moronic project... and further restrict your access to the outdoors and public waters.

Capt. Rick Hammond


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## Im Headed South

gater said:


> I would guess with millions dedicated for maintenance dredging they don't expect to stay open either, I have always said that it would close back up and think that way!


No one ever said it would stay open on it's own forever, that's why the maintenance fund agreement was in place prior to anyone including CCA pledging funds to the project. Curious if you have the same feelings about all of the public funds being used on the oyster restoration projects going on in the Galveston bay complex?


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## WillieT

Im Headed South said:


> Yea I'm sure folks with the same mentality as the ones that drive right by the sign out in the bayou would avoid the planted grass sprigs by just asking them to, that shoreline is a air boat highway especially in a north wind during duck season. It really doesn't impact me and I haven't seen the 1000's of dead fish but maybe a few of y'all can take it up with the COE as they're requiring that fence to be up to the grass starts growing and it must be monitored for the next 5 years. Here some pics of the fence in question during a pretty high tide.


In my opinion that looks like a death trap for a lot of marine life, in the right situation. It looks to me like it would be just as effective if that fence were 2 feet off the bottom. Some people just do not look at the big picture.


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## Im Headed South

If you read the permit it calls it a "wave barrier fence" meaning it's meant to keep the wave action from the prevailing SE winds from washing away the sprigs until established. Once the grass is established to the COE satisfaction the fence will be removed, I don't believe restricting access was the primary goal. As pointed out in a previous post that shoreline isn't heavily used which I'm sure also went into the decision process, the COE toured the entire bay system looking for a suitable site and user conflict was one of considerations which is why it might not be along the St Joe or Matty shoreline.


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## jacobm24

Interesting to see the previous attempts to open the pass on old google earth pictures and how they differ from the latest project.

Here is 1990. VS not even connected and CB has multiple small channels feeding it and tons of bars and drifts. CB has a windy path to the gulf








1995 VS still not connected and CB looks to have a main cut keeping it open but a large bar forming at the mouth of the gulf. CB still has a very windy path.








2000....Looks to have darker sand...maybe it flows during high tides








2005 VS is barely connected, sanding up at the bay end, CB has a clear narrow but deep looking channel. neither have a straight shot into the gulf








2008 Gone again








It looks like all of the previous attempts dredged a channel that was windy and appeared to be the original CB channel. The present attempt gives it more of a straight shot which will hopefully keep water velocity higher preventing the sanding up.

I cant wait to go see it in person! Can someone setup some sort of live feed cam out there on a balloon looking down so we can get some daily pictures :dance:

Last picture is 2009 to 2014...mostly unchanged


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## RubiconAg

The pic in 2005 is a great depiction of what they were trying to undo with regard to VS. When the Ixtoc exploded in '79 they bermed in VS and CB and then in further dredging's they piled the spoils in front of VS thus when it would try and open itself naturally it was contending with a man made berm, as seen in the red oval area. Also, they have noted in the engineering report that the pass could move up to 3500' which is what the red line represents. I'm still optimistic. A map from 1880's shows CB at mostly 8' deep except for the mouth which was noted to only be 3'. This 3' is all that is needed to let fish and fresh water pass!


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## Gamblinhand

Why don't we take the Rockport to Lamar bridge that's going to be demoed when the new bridge is done and Jetty cedar bayou up? Has this been mentioned? Just sounds like a logical thing for the state to do to me. Then we could head offshore via C/B.
Let's do it!


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## dolch

isn't it about time for some fresh flyover pics?


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## JoshJ

dolch said:


> isn't it about time for some fresh flyover pics?


I was there this weekend, but the clouds were a little low Sunday morning when I left so I didn't fly over. I will have some new pictures the weekend of Nov 15.

We did wade the mouth this past Saturday and everything seemed to look just like it was in the last flyover pictures I took. The narrow part of the channel right next to the bar that is forming to the north is at least chest deep. It was to deep to cross with waders on.


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## Bosshawg

*2cool engineering*

Sounds like we should have should have started this thread before the project began so we could let all the real engineers and geniuses have some input.


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## RubiconAg

Anyone taking a flight this week? I'm really curious to see if all this rain will have an effect on the pass, as in flushing it out.


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## rcowboy

A buddy if mine sent me these pics of CB that were taken form the air. Has any one been to CB lately that can verify if these are accurate? is it already silting in?


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## Agwader

Thanks for the pictures, looks like not much has changed in the last month. Really skinny though at the mouth off Vinson slough.


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## cxjcherokec

On thanksgiving about 30 yards before the no boats sign I tagged bottom pretty good just motoring around other than that most of it appeared to be between 5-6feet at the deepest. Didn't boat any fish out of CB but we got there late and it was slack tide. Did catch quite a few trout at the reefs we passed on the way out trying to beat the wind.


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## rwl1948

any updates on how the bayou is doing, with all the low tides?


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## rwl1948

See CCA Comments and Judge Mills comments

:bounce::bounce:

http://www.wwnrockport.com/2015/03/press-release-cedar-bayou-update.html


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## Majek20V

jodybo said:


> What is the purpose of the no boats rule? Why not let boats run out to the gulf?
> 
> Also, I was under the impression that the depth of the bayou from Mesquite out to the Gulf would be ~6ft. Is that not the case?


Entrapment I say! haha theres a little white sign in the dunes that says no vessels. For goodness sakes build a bigger sign with that money!!:dance:


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## Smackdaddy53

No boats because of erosion issues


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## Im Headed South

Because its a fish pass and not navigation channel, it's not maintained as navigation channel ie channel markers and such. The markers would have to be moved almost daily because the channels move that often and the state doesn't want the liability for when some dipchit plows into a bar and possibly kills someone out there. I have little doubt without something across there someone is probably going to get hurt out there this summer passing through there illegally, already saw a fb post of someone that grounded a big Bluewave behind the sign a few weeks back.


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## mesquitecountry

Drove to the no boat sign today. Pass looks Good, but there are definitely some shallow spots along the channel that are no more than 1-3 feet.


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## Hollon

I had a great day of fishing at Cedar Bayou with my two sons on April 4. We went to see the area a few days after Christmas 2 years ago. The water was stagnant. The mud/sand stunk and there was no signs of life in the water. Now the water half way across Mesquite Bay looks great. There is bait fish everywhere in Cedar Bayou. We pulled 3 kids in Daddies Shoalwater off the sand and then caught fish in the surf until we ran out of bait. On the north side of the pass from the sign to the surf was solid trash. I don't know if it was brought in by the tide or what but it is everywhere.


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## Im Headed South

Unfortunately most of the trash has been brought in via the human visitors, going to be a sad site out there by mid summer with the thought of the only way it's going to stay clean is by people carrying out their own trash. If you look out on the beach front you'll see what's left of the "no boats" sign that used to be on the gulf side, apparently someone needed for their bonfire one evening :headknock . I've been hesitant to post any fishing reports as to draw anymore crowds than possible because of the above  , anyone that doubts what I say needs to stop one day at the tip of long reef when running down St Joe and go look in the brush. It would **** you off to no end, old bbq pits, lawn chairs, pop ups, and general trash just piled up everywhere.


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## aguaflaca

Im Headed South said:


> Unfortunately most of the trash has been brought in via the human visitors, going to be a sad site out there by mid summer with the thought of the only way it's going to stay clean is by people carrying out their own trash. If you look out on the beach front you'll see what's left of the "no boats" sign that used to be on the gulf side, apparently someone needed for their bonfire one evening :headknock . I've been hesitant to post any fishing reports as to draw anymore crowds than possible because of the above  , anyone that doubts what I say needs to stop one day at the tip of long reef when running down St Joe and go look in the brush. It would **** you off to no end, old bbq pits, lawn chairs, pop ups, and general trash just piled up everywhere.


that sucks. 
probably the most untouched piece of the Texas coast and morons have to ruin it with their trash.


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## Hollon

I will take a trash bag on my next trip out there and pick up what I can. :texasflag


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## cruss

*trash*

It washes in from the ships and oil platforms and not from the guys fishing there. Its always been there and always will be.


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## headed south 2

No, Cruss. This trash is being left in piles, piles of tall boy bud lights, and food wrappers. Sure some trash washes up from platforms, ships etc. But the majority of the trash is scattered from the "no boats beyond this point" sign to the surf. Lots of beer cans, bottles and other garbage. That my friend is from your fellow weekend warrior who has no respect for all the hard work that has gone into the project. **** shame.


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## 3192

_ "But the majority of the trash is scattered from the "no boats beyond this point" sign to the surf. Lots of beer cans, bottles and other garbage. That my friend is from your fellow *weekend warrior* who has no respect for all the hard work that has gone into the project. **** shame."
_

X2!! We are fighting the same thing at the local ramp. Zero respect or responsibility. gb


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## Comeback

*Fish pass revitalizes the bay*

http://www.victoriaadvocate.com/news/2015/apr/17/fish-pass-revitalizes-the-bay/

A $9.4 million project to reopen a fish pass between Mesquite Bay and the Gulf of Mexico is paying off.
Within weeks of dredging the channel, which was completed in late-September, the bay came alive. And, despite the mouth of the pass migrating about 400 feet south, the flow of water and marine life continues.
"It kind of looked like the surface of Mars before they reopened it and now that's really changed," said Quentin Hall, a master of science student in the Harte Research Institute for Gulf of Mexico Studies' marine biology program.
Cedar Bayou was bulldozed shut 35 years ago in an attempt to protect the bays from one of the largest oil spills in history, the Ixtoc I oil spill near Campeche, Mexico. But closing the fish pass created about a 60-mile stretch of barrier islands from Port O'Connor to Port Aransas without a fish channel.
Such channels provide fish, crab and shrimp a way to migrate between the Gulf and bays to carry out their natural life cycle. Without such a pass to allow marine life and water exchange, the bay ecology has suffered. A study by Hall plans to figure out by just how much.
For more than a year before the opening, Hall and his classmates took samples of marine life at 14 sites from Port Aransas to San Antonio Bay. Hall will compare the data to that collected after the opening.
The samples are still being analyzed, but the initial results are promising. While there were no red drum - a favorite among Texas fishermen - in the samples before the opening, young red drum were present in those conducted shortly afterward.
"It was almost an instantaneous response. We've run the numbers and, from a statistical standpoint, they not only increased but significantly so," Hall said. "They responded much more quickly and much better than what anybody had hoped for."
To collect samples, Hall and his crew dragged a net with skids mounted to the bottom, along the seagrass in 14 locations. The marine life they collected is about the size of a pinky nail. Larger animals swim fast enough to escape the net, Hall said.
The team put the animals they collected into containers, which they transported back to the lab, where the specimens will all be counted.
So far, about a quarter of a million organisms have been counted by hand, Hall said.
Early results from the study indicate an increase in young red drum. But it's too early for research to show how the adult fish population has been affected by the opening of Cedar Bayou.
"We're hopeful the increase will eventually be reflected in the adult population. We can't tell that for a number of years," Hall said. "But that was kind of the whole point of this: To make sure the young are reaching the nursery habitat to grow into reproducing individuals."
While it may be too early for science to tell, fishermen in the area have been giving Aransas County Judge C.H. "Burt" Mills Jr. good reports.
The pass opening has meandered 400 feet south, but the change was to be expected and isn't a concern, Mills said. A $1 million grant from the Sid W. Richardson Foundation for the maintenance of Cedar Bayou will help keep the pass open, if and when it's necessary. The county is matching the grant by putting $200,000 to $250,000 a year in the pot, Mills said.
Mills flew over Cedar Bayou in a plane in late-March. The pass was full of fishermen, of both the human and avian kind.
"There's a flock of pelicans that sits right at the mouth of Cedar Bayou," he said. "It looks like they're too full to fly."


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## Smackdaddy53

Hopefully it stays open.


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## Copano/Aransas

headed south 2 said:


> No, Cruss. This trash is being left in piles, piles of tall boy bud lights, and food wrappers. Sure some trash washes up from platforms, ships etc. But the majority of the trash is scattered from the "no boats beyond this point" sign to the surf. Lots of beer cans, bottles and other garbage. That my friend is from your fellow weekend warrior who has no respect for all the hard work that has gone into the project. **** shame.


X2..you got the weekend warrior part right, makes us fellow fisherman that don't leave trash everywhere look bad. Might stop by there end of next week, I'll be sure to bring a roll of trash bags. To pick up trash the trash left behind. Lazy SOB's.

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## Im Headed South

Buddy of mine was there Thursday afternoon and said there was a boat anchored out just inside the mouth and probably 200 yards past the signs. He observed them for a bit from the cut off sign and said they were slinging popping corks with shrimp I assume and we're catching fish as fast as they could bait their hooks. Guess they didn't want to mess with bait buckets and having to carry their stringers back to the sign.


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## Copano/Aransas

Im Headed South said:


> Buddy of mine was there Thursday afternoon and said *there was a boat anchored out just inside the mouth and probably 200 yards past the signs.* He observed them for a bit from the cut off sign and said they were slinging popping corks with shrimp I assume and we're catching fish as fast as they could bait their hooks. Guess they didn't want to mess with bait buckets and having to carry their stringers back to the sign.


"You Can't Fix Stupid"


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## cxjcherokec

Ran 2 boats off 3 weeks ago trying to make it past the sign on my way back from the surf. 1 guy said he didn't know so I pointed the OBVIOUS sign out, walked them down the beach and showed them where I fished and the other guy argued with me so I mentioned calling the local warden and he just burned off and left.


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## redfish bayrat

Im Headed South said:


> Buddy of mine was there Thursday afternoon and said there was a boat anchored out just inside the mouth and probably 200 yards past the signs. He observed them for a bit from the cut off sign and said they were slinging popping corks with shrimp I assume and we're catching fish as fast as they could bait their hooks. Guess they didn't want to mess with bait buckets and having to carry their stringers back to the sign.


Haven't been out there since it opened up. We used to go quite a bit in the 70's. There has to be some way to run a cable/chain or some type of prop fouling material across the cut at the sign to insure idiots comply with the law. Another one for the engineers and guys smarter than me.


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## justletmein

redfish bayrat said:


> Haven't been out there since it opened up. We used to go quite a bit in the 70's. There has to be some way to run a cable/chain or some type of prop fouling material across the cut at the sign to insure idiots comply with the law. Another one for the engineers and guys smarter than me.


Yeah that's a great idea, make it actually dangerous and potentially hurt somebody.

Honest question, who cares of boats run through/in there? It's their butt risking getting ticketed if caught. I don't fish there and probably never will, so maybe there's a reason for it... if so please educate me.


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## redfish bayrat

justletmein said:


> Yeah that's a great idea, make it actually dangerous and potentially hurt somebody.
> 
> Honest question, who cares of boats run through/in there? It's their butt risking getting ticketed if caught. I don't fish there and probably never will, so maybe there's a reason for it... if so please educate me.


Didn't say unmarked barrier. There was a reason drive in movies had spikes at the exit openings and you're bound to be familiar with the saying about good fences making good neighbors. Just an idea on how to keep idiots from breaking the law and keeping them out of even worse danger in the currents that rip through there. The reason for no boats is because of erosion from wakes and the fact it is a fish pass not channel for boat traffic like Packery.


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## Im Headed South

justletmein said:


> Yeah that's a great idea, make it actually dangerous and potentially hurt somebody.
> 
> Honest question, who cares of boats run through/in there? It's their butt risking getting ticketed if caught. I don't fish there and probably never will, so maybe there's a reason for it... if so please educate me.


Besides the erosion and migration issues the biggest reason imo the state passed the law years ago was to protect the public from themselves and to cover their butts. The channel is not considered a navigable waterway because it is not marked, you couldn't keep it marked accurately unless they were there to move the markers every couple of days due to how much things change in there with every tide and not to mention the design was for a Fish Pass where 3' of water or less is all that's needed to do its job. Right now and most of the time since it's been open there is a pretty radical s curve in the channel right at the mouth so someone not knowing where they are going on a rough day where the water is dirty could ground out pretty easily coming or going out and given your not going to be idling in or out of the surf it isn't going to be pretty site when it happens. The state doesn't want that liability so they tell people to stay out of the mouth or pass through it, when it does happen its going to be on the operator, given all the folks that or ignoring the signs now (3 more yesterday) only to fish the mouth I can only imagine what it's going to look like this summer when the surf and beach front catches fire and guys are running through it daily. I can remember the cable being up 25+ years ago as a kids and I believe it was way back closer to Mesquite which made the walk to the surf impossible if I remember right. I'm pretty much convinced a well marked cable with plenty of bouys and signs is the only way you'll keep a majority of the guys that are now ignoring the sign out of the mouth of the bayou, hopefully if that does end up happening it will still be close enough to walk to the surf. If not then we all have a few jackass's to thank for screwing things up for the rest of us that play by the rules.


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## daniel7930

I remember years ago. I think I was 17. Went down there. And right before the sign was covered tables. We use to camp there. Not one time did I see a boat go pass the sign. Last October I went in there and fished Ava saw a few boat pass the sign. I didn't cause I'd probably get caught. But also the current around the curve there was fast. And I can easily see a boat that not anchored right go out to sea


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## justletmein

Is it illegal to run a boat through Pass Cavallo? I'm asking, honestly don't know. But if not, then the whole protect the public from themselves thing doesn't make sense. 


How many passes and back lake channels are dangerous to navigate without quite a bit of local knowledge? Are we going to close those down too? 
I just think when the state starts doing things because "they don't want the liability" we the people stand to lose some important things. 

I can buy into the erosion issue if it really would make a difference, I mean "we" spent a ton of money on this thing so yeah it's best to protect the investment. 

I'm just playing devil's advocate, not arguing for or against the point. 



Having said all that, I'm kind of tired of the powers that be protecting us from ourselves. This world is full of people who should have eliminated themselves from the gene pool but instead they're a tax on society.


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## TrueblueTexican

*Its a fish pass*

Not a boat pass and it was and is a non-navigable channel, the IDIOT BUBBAS who are too danged FAT to get out of their 50K boats to get down and dirty RUIN it for the REAL FISHERMEN --

Its a no go due to eroding the channel with boat wakes, and sanding the pass SOONER --

Bunch of MORONS, who don't care for much but themselves - can't wait for the 600.00 fines to start being issued !!!


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## fultonswimmer

My buddy thinks CB is the cat's meow. I could care less.
But.....I do care when these fools such as mentioned in the posts go out and put themselves in danger(possibly by overturned boats, out to sea strong currents, et. al.) and then want the Coast Guard or the game wardens to come and bail their sorry arses out of the trouble they so ignorantly put themselves in.


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## Im Headed South

Pass Cavallo is not a fish pass to my knowledge, and as far as how many passes and back lake channels there are to get in trouble in, I would imagine there are quite a few but not many that open up to the surf nor very many that just had nearly 10 million dollars spent on them to open up. Another issue that sure to come up before long is user conflict, when you have a opening you can stand in and pretty much throw all the way across its going to be very interesting to see boats trying to run through at daylight dodging waders, the ever changing sand bars, and a unpredictable surf. Bottom line is there's no good reason to be past the signs, the justifications for that are many imo.


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## Yams

I grew up going to Cedar Bayou with my grandpa back when i was in elementary school. We used to make the trip in his old AMC. That thing would rattle your teeth out. I remember sleeping on my grandma's lap on the ride back home. I am thrilled to see it back to life.

I would love to take him back out there. He just turned 78 and I turned 37 in December. Would be a helluva trip down memory lane. I wonder if he could handle the trip across Mesquite Bay.


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## makoclay

Regarding liability, there is a huge difference between the two. The state did not create Pass Cavallo. From a liability perspective, somebody hurting themselves in CB could claim that the state was culpable because they reopened the pass (not that I would agree with them).


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## Im Headed South

Yams, wait a few months for the wind to lay and leave early and he'll make it just fine I'm sure. If you can't find a ride you know where I'm at, we'll get him out there in exchange for a few good stories. The bayou holds a special place in so many people's up bringing, I've been blessed enough to be in the presence of many old timers as they see it for the first time in decades and the stories they tell are better than anything you'll find on the net or tv. If you didn't read it the first time do yourself a favor and try and track down the article Jay Watkins wrote in TSWF magazine last fall about our trip out there, awesome stuff that will hopefully remind folks what it's all about.


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## Smackdaddy53

Pass Cavallo though about sanding in on its own too.


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## TrueblueTexican

*I fished Cedar Bayou from the sixties to present*

-- I've seen it 100 yards wide, eight feet deep ,and dry as a bone, its gone thru many changes with the IXTOC closure the worst of them all -- I have stood more times than I can count on the second bar catching surf runners and dodging sharks, till my arms about fell off, two biggest specs I ever caught (both 30+ inches) came on blue and white queen cocahoes in June. Been stood up and knocked down more times than I can count in ROUGH green head high surf doin the Texas Two Step there. Got carried off a couple of times 1/4 mile off the beach in rips too -- it CHAPS my hide to see irresponsible BUBBAS motor through and you can BET I will get pics and TX #s and drop a dime on you -- I've caught more reds than I could ever count on the backside to the airfield -

This is a true treasure of coastal surf and Mesquite bay will come back when the sand eels come back with the moving water.

Please be a responsible steward of the area - carry your **** trash out with you !!!


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## redfish bayrat

TrueblueTexican said:


> -- I've seen it 100 yards wide, eight feet deep ,and dry as a bone, its gone thru many changes with the IXTOC closure the worst of them all -- I have stood more times than I can count on the second bar catching surf runners and dodging sharks, till my arms about fell off, two biggest specs I ever caught (both 30+ inches) came on blue and white queen cocahoes in June. Been stood up and knocked down more times than I can count in ROUGH green head high surf doin the Texas Two Step there. Got carried off a couple of times 1/4 mile off the beach in rips too -- it CHAPS my hide to see irresponsible BUBBAS motor through and you can BET I will get pics and TX #s and drop a dime on you -- I've caught more reds than I could ever count on the backside to the airfield -
> 
> This is a true treasure of coastal surf and Mesquite bay will come back when the sand eels come back with the moving water.
> 
> Please be a responsible steward of the area - carry your **** trash out with you !!!


I'm with you on the first part, but my trout came on 51 series mirrolure that we painted hot pink with surveyor's paint. Something big hit it on one trip and I walked that fish as far as I could after having sharks take fish off our stringer when wading. Never turned him. Had to put the thumb down on the 5500c and the 12lb line went pop.
Camped out there and caught tons of fish under the lights of a generator.


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## Tarponchaser

Have fished cedar bayou since the 60's. Many of us have had our best days ever here.
It has always been a illegal port of entry as well as very dangerous at the surf line... for boats and waders.

It is a designated fish pass. Boats running through it will disrupt the migrations of the badly needed fish to restock the bay system.

it will also screw up the legal fishermen fishing from the banks. 

We should all put pressure on anyone that passes the signs and turn in their TX numbers is they do not move back behind the signs.

At my age, i don't like the long walk but it is part of the package and is generally worth it.

This is the trouble with America... we have become soft and lazy. Man up and be a true Texan and do the right thing.

Many of us contributed funds to open this treasure ..lets treat it right.

TC


----------



## letsgofishin

*Yessir!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*



Tarponchaser said:


> Have fished cedar bayou since the 60's. Many of us have had our best days ever here.
> It has always been a illegal port of entry as well as very dangerous at the surf line... for boats and waders.
> 
> It is a designated fish pass. Boats running through it will disrupt the migrations of the badly needed fish to restock the bay system.
> 
> it will also screw up the legal fishermen fishing from the banks.
> 
> We should all put pressure on anyone that passes the signs and turn in their TX numbers is they do not move back behind the signs.
> 
> At my age, i don't like the long walk but it is part of the package and is generally worth it.
> 
> This is the trouble with America... we have become soft and lazy. Man up and be a true Texan and do the right thing.
> 
> Many of us contributed funds to open this treasure ..lets treat it right.
> 
> TC


I LIKE YOUR STYLE !
GIT ER DONE!
:texasflag


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## Yams

Im Headed South said:


> Yams, wait a few months for the wind to lay and leave early and he'll make it just fine I'm sure. If you can't find a ride you know where I'm at, we'll get him out there in exchange for a few good stories. The bayou holds a special place in so many people's up bringing, I've been blessed enough to be in the presence of many old timers as they see it for the first time in decades and the stories they tell are better than anything you'll find on the net or tv. If you didn't read it the first time do yourself a favor and try and track down the article Jay Watkins wrote in TSWF magazine last fall about our trip out there, awesome stuff that will hopefully remind folks what it's all about.


Truly appreciate the offer. I am considering renting a boat this summer and making the run out there. If that doesnt work out, I may hit you up.

Thanks for all the work you guys have done to make this happen.


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## KDubBlast

Im Headed South said:


> Yams, wait a few months for the wind to lay and leave early and he'll make it just fine I'm sure. If you can't find a ride you know where I'm at, we'll get him out there in exchange for a few good stories. The bayou holds a special place in so many people's up bringing, I've been blessed enough to be in the presence of many old timers as they see it for the first time in decades and the stories they tell are better than anything you'll find on the net or tv. If you didn't read it the first time do yourself a favor and try and track down the article Jay Watkins wrote in TSWF magazine last fall about our trip out there, awesome stuff that will hopefully remind folks what it's all about.


 http://www.texassaltwaterfishingmagazine.com/fishing/jay-watkins/page123.html&pageNum_rs_cat_posts=0


----------



## KDubBlast

KDubBlast said:


> http://www.texassaltwaterfishingmagazine.com/fishing/jay-watkins/page123.html&pageNum_rs_cat_posts=0


http://www.texassaltwaterfishingmagazine.com/fishing/catching/subpage2726.html

Here is the actual link to Jays article on Cedar Bayou. Great read.


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## SSST

Cool read, thanks for the link!


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## redfish bayrat

KDubBlast said:


> http://www.texassaltwaterfishingmagazine.com/fishing/catching/subpage2726.html
> 
> Here is the actual link to Jays article on Cedar Bayou. Great read.


Thank you for the link. Jay's descriptions brought back memories of my own.


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## Bankin' On It

I heard a dirty rumor that someone dumped fuel or chemicals or something there over this past weekend. Anyone seen this? I heard there was a clean up effort being organized today.


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## Sancroix

Bankin' On It said:


> I heard a dirty rumor that someone dumped fuel or chemicals or something there over this past weekend. Anyone seen this? I heard there was a clean up effort being organized today.


I heard the name come up on a radio news report in Houston. I think the reference is to an area in Baytown. Here's a link:

http://www.click2houston.com/news/c...rosene-spill-in-baytowns-cedar-bayou/32475390


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## Brandon1107

Any updated pictures/reports?
B


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## reedkj

Based upon earlier reading, the spring bull tide and fresh water intake were going to play major roles in the pass.... Are there any indications that the calculations and models of the pass during the engineering phases are playing out as expected?


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## Im Headed South

There was a flyover yesterday, I'll get pics posted later. The high tides and large amount of freshwater coming in via SAB have been very beneficial, and the engineers are thrilled with the way things are looking currently.


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## Brandon1107

Thanks IHS. That's great news. 
B



Im Headed South said:


> There was a flyover yesterday, I'll get pics posted later. The high tides and large amount of freshwater coming in via SAB have been very beneficial, and the engineers are thrilled with the way things are looking currently.


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## Bull Red

I will be out there sometime next month. Just as soon as this weather straightens up and I have time off.


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## 1fisher77316

Does anyone have a real update on Cedar Bayou? 
Tight lines
1Fisher77316


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## chargedchevy

Im Headed South said:


> There was a flyover yesterday, I'll get pics posted later. The high tides and large amount of freshwater coming in via SAB have been very beneficial, and the engineers are thrilled with the way things are looking currently.


That's great to hear! After being there in March I was a little worried. There was some pretty significant shoaling, especially where VS ties in. I'm looking forward to seeing the pictures.


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## reedkj

Thanks. Looking forward to the pics.


----------



## [email protected]

IHS (Michael) and his wife (Lisa, who is an awesome photographer by the way) have dedicated much time and been very diligent in recording the status and events of Cedar Bayou/Vinson Slough over the past couple of years and I believe we owe them a debt of gratitude for their service. I'm calling for a drum roll and three cheers!

And I'm going to brag on them just a bit more. Through their dedication to the conservation of coastal resources and the quality of parenting they've contributed, their daughter will be starting marine biology studies this fall at TAMU Corpus Christi. Look for great things from this young lady!


----------



## RubiconAg

Congrats IHS! 

I have to believe that the extreme amount of fresh water that is being dumped in the bays by evidence of the crazy high tides are helping to flush out the bayou.


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## hooknbullet2

Congrats and thanks Michael


----------



## Im Headed South

Thank you for the kind words Everett, they made our night. The project has been very special to all of us, we've made some good friends and learned a lot. None of it would have been possible without you know who, the cooperation from the County, Engineers, Research Staff, and Contractor, they were always welcoming and went above and beyond to allow us to tag along. We're very proud of Lindsey and can't wait to see what the future holds for her, maybe the next Dr Holt or Stunz, no pressure Linds .

Back to the project, here some pics from the flyover yesterday. Photo credit goes to Judge Mills.


----------



## Copano/Aransas

Im Headed South said:


> Thank you for the kind words Everett, they made our night. The project has been very special to all of us, we've made some good friends and learned a lot. None of it would have been possible without you know who, the cooperation from the County, Engineers, Research Staff, and Contractor, they were always welcoming and went above and beyond to allow us to tag along. We're very proud of Lindsey and can't wait to see what the future holds for her, maybe the next Dr Holt or Stunz, no pressure Linds .
> 
> Back to the project, here some pics from the flyover yesterday. Photo credit goes to Judge Mills.


Awesome pictures!! Thanks for the update IHS & all y'all do and did for the project, looks like everything is working good. All the marsh grass looks good also from all the rain we've had.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TrueblueTexican

*Looking Awesome*

It looks almost like it did when I was a kid in the sixties - you had to swim across it then -- be down this fall to relive some memories and sack some fall fish.


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## reedkj

Wow.... great job to everyone involved. This should benefit our resources for years to come.


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## railbird

All this rain and vs/cb open, I can't wait to see this fishery blow up! Thanks to all who fought to make this happen. I can't wait to go out there and experience it with my grandkids.


----------



## FishAfrica

Thats awesome, lots of water rolling through there. Thanks for the updates and pics!


----------



## Drum

Looks great!


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## Number_Five

I don't get to head down very often, and have a full day planned next week. Would it be worth the time to spend the day in the northeast section of Aransas and CB, or stay south?

I have never seen CB open and have been excited about it for a long time. 

IHS you're the man!


----------



## [email protected]

Number_Five, if you're going to be in the area I would definitely suggest dedicating at least part of your day to visiting CB/Vinson Slough for a firsthand experience. Fishing along the southern shorelines of Aransas and San Antonio Bays should be very good in general, with the freshwater influx moving fish toward saltier locales. I'm about to drop the boat in the water and head that way myself here in a few minutes. Good luck to you and be careful of floating debris (logs and such) when crossing the open bay.


----------



## Number_Five

[email protected] said:


> Number_Five, if you're going to be in the area I would definitely suggest dedicating at least part of your day to visiting CB/Vinson Slough for a firsthand experience. Fishing along the southern shorelines of Aransas and San Antonio Bays should be very good in general, with the freshwater influx moving fish toward saltier locales. I'm about to drop the boat in the water and head that way myself here in a few minutes. Good luck to you and be careful of floating debris (logs and such) when crossing the open bay.


Thanks EJ!! Give us a report when you get back!

I assume the tide movement and time would be very similar to Port A?


----------



## Agwader

[email protected] said:


> IHS (Michael) and his wife (Lisa, who is an awesome photographer by the way) have dedicated much time and been very diligent in recording the status and events of Cedar Bayou/Vinson Slough over the past couple of years and I believe we owe them a debt of gratitude for their service. I'm calling for a drum roll and three cheers!
> 
> And I'm going to brag on them just a bit more. Through their dedication to the conservation of coastal resources and the quality of parenting they've contributed, their daughter will be starting marine biology studies this fall at TAMU Corpus Christi. Look for great things from this young lady!


Here here, couldn't agree more. I've really enjoyed his pictures and updates.


----------



## Copano/Aransas

Number_Five said:


> Thanks EJ!! Give us a report when you get back!
> 
> I assume the tide movement and time would be very similar to Port A?


Yup pretty close, not quite as strong but close.


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## Sgrem

IHS, I know you were updating this pretty regular. I'm sure the criticism and naysayers were wearing on you. I for one was always looking forward to the most recent discussion. Thanks much for your focus and leadership on this project. Please do keep up the updates. Much appreciated.....and very exciting for the whole middle coast.


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## Number_Five

Copano/Aransas said:


> Yup pretty close, not quite as strong but close.


Thanks Cop....I didn't realize the movement would be that strong! I thought the timing would be pretty close though given the proximity.


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## Copano/Aransas

Number_Five said:


> Thanks Cop....I didn't realize the movement would be that strong! I thought the timing would be pretty close though given the proximity.


What I meant by that also is in the Mesquite bay area, especially when you get closer to Cedar Bayou, there's a pretty good tide current/ movement during the tide movements in that area.


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## Number_Five

Copano/Aransas said:


> What I meant by that also is in the Mesquite bay area, especially when you get closer to Cedar Bayou, there's a pretty good tide current/ movement during the tide movements in that area.


I haven't been in Mesquite bay in almost two years to the day. I really like that area, but just pretty wet behind the ears when fishing the northern parts of Aransas. Usually my northern boundary is long reef.

It's a pretty decent run from Cove Harbor so it's difficult to talk buddies in for along boat ride that early in the morning.


----------



## Copano/Aransas

Number_Five said:


> I haven't been in Mesquite bay in almost two years to the day. I really like that area, but just pretty wet behind the ears when fishing the northern parts of Aransas. Usually my northern boundary is long reef.
> 
> It's a pretty decent run from Cove Harbor so it's difficult to talk buddies in for along boat ride that early in the morning.


Why not just launch at Copano @ the bridge or Goose Island either one of those ramps is a lot closer especially if the wind is up over 15mph. PM me if you have any questions about the area.


----------



## Number_Five

Copano/Aransas said:


> Why not just launch at Copano @ the bridge or Goose Island either one of those is a lot closer especially if the wind is up over 15mph.


Mostly because we're dumb and impatient. We usually stay in the Estes area and Cove Harbor is right there, so passing up a perfectly good boat ramp doesn't make sense to our pea brains. That and I don't fish up there, so it's hard to commit to being and staying up there. So when our instincts kick in and make us run south we're close to home.


----------



## [email protected]

Never made it CB this afternoon. Bait and slicks derailed my plan. But the fishing was good! Grilled trout fillets for Sunday lunch! Maybe tomorrow if the rain stops.


----------



## Number_Five

[email protected] said:


> Never made it CB this afternoon. Bait and slicks derailed my plan. But the fishing was good! Grilled trout fillets for Sunday lunch! Maybe tomorrow if the rain stops.


I think that will be my plan...start heading that direction from cove harbor and fish the areas along the way that show signs of promise. Need to check the tides but maybe we plan to get there While the waters moving.

Congrats on the trout!


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## SSST

Looks great, those pics should keep the naysayers away for awhile!


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## Im Headed South

Thanks again for all the kinds words guys, good to see so many folks tuned into the project. Probably headed north in the morning toward Mesquite with having to get headed back to LV early in the afternoon. Ran south, way south like nearly to Mansfield today looking for a STAR contender, caught a bunch of solids to 22" but the big girls didn't want to cooperate. Did see that some folks found some big ones down south including at least one that made it to the lower coast leaderboard.


----------



## Greyter

SSST said:


> Looks great, those pics should keep the naysayers away for awhile!


Yeah, It's a Catchy 22 situation.


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## barronj

[email protected] said:


> IHS (Michael) and his wife (Lisa, who is an awesome photographer by the way) have dedicated much time and been very diligent in recording the status and events of Cedar Bayou/Vinson Slough over the past couple of years and I believe we owe them a debt of gratitude for their service. I'm calling for a drum roll and three cheers!
> 
> And I'm going to brag on them just a bit more. Through their dedication to the conservation of coastal resources and the quality of parenting they've contributed, their daughter will be starting marine biology studies this fall at TAMU Corpus Christi. Look for great things from this young lady!


The CCA Austin banquet ($1.1+ million raised on 5/7/15) owed a lot to Michael & Lisa, and her photography. From our program cover artwork to a highlight piece of artwork sold in the live, we owe y'all many thanks, IHS. Hopefully, I will have John B introduce us at some point.


----------



## Im Headed South

Thanks Barron, we had a great time at the Austin event, your board does a heck of job every year.


----------



## Im Headed South

Seen several post from guys wanting to head out to CB so thought I'd try and help out on here, on future threads we can link this post to get them there. I'm no Google Earth pro by any stretch but I gave it a shot and I think the shots below may point out a couple areas where caution is needed and help some folks into the bayou. 

Pic 1
Leaving out of GISP you'd run down the poles until just before mark A where your going to turn right and head out of the cut into Aransas Bay, mark A is where the last 2 wooden poles are located. Do not run past those poles, I can't tell you how many folks have made that mistake and paid dearly. The red path is a easier route but will be no fun on a windy day once you hit Mesquite, the yellow line takes you through Carlos and it's reefs but gives you much more protection from the strong E, SE, and S winds. So back to the pic, if running the red route you'll pass behind rip rap lined spoils and look for two pipe markers at "B", there use to be pylons on them but I hardly ever go that way so not sure if that's still the case, you want to run between those 2 pipes into the ICW, don't turn north until your in the green water of the ditch, the shell comes out a ways on that corner so watch out for it. Your good to go then all the way to the cut into Mesquite. 
Yellow route you can cut across and run between the rip rap and the spoil which provides a little protection if the wind is cranking, use caution in the turn in there, bird watchers have been known to set up there and have no problem anchoring right in the middle of the cut sad3sm. Once clear of the spoil you'll look for a orange cone "C" that is on the other side of the ICW, that cone is the northern edge of a reef so you'll want to pass to the left of that cone, on a real low tide it can get a little skinny across there but most boat should make it across without a issue. 

Pic 2
Red line, run the ICW north. 
Yellow, there are several post between C and D you can follow to get to the first dug out at D, you'll have shell on both sides so stay down the middle along the post and your good. At D there are 2 large wood post you'll want to pass BETWEEN, no room for error here, either side of post is bad news. Once through the dug out you can follow the wood post toward Mesquite, there is one post that is broke off at the water line and someone has stuck a pvc pipe in it to mark it so watch for it. 

Pic3
Red line, turn into Mesquite cut out of ICW. There will be a line of post that you'll want to keep on your left side, it gets skinny on far right so stay close to poles. Mark D is the second post from the ICW, someone hit it this past winter and it's broke off at the water line, on a normal summer tide it's going to be just under the water. It's in a straight line between poles 1 and 3 so as long as you stay out of that line you'll be good. There are poles that lead from the cut all the way to CB that you can follow but be mindful of the wind, if you get out in the middle your committed to the haul across lol.
Yellow line, run the poles to the next dug out, again it will neck down so that there's shell on both sides, watch for the little reef that sticks out into the cut at "E", stay to right of it and head toward the cut into Mesquite at Beldons. At "F" you'll want to pass BETWEEN poles into Mesquite where you can cut back to the right, stay out away from the reef and head toward that shoreline if needing to because of a strong S or SE wind. 

Pic4
Pretty straight forward now, Red line along the poles will get you to the mouth.
Yellow line just be sure not to get up to far into the flats on the south side of the opening into CB, it can get skinny in a hurry. 

Hope that helps a few folks get out there, when you go take a trash bag and try and bring back more than you took. Good luck and tight lines.


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## justletmein

I've never actually been to CB, but that yellow route above ^ is what we took when running up through Carlos and Mesquite bays just goofing off and exploring. We ran it with a Carolina Skiff 218 DLV so don't need to get too skinny.


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## barronj

Red is how I get there, yellow is my return route.

I went there this morning to fish what I thought would be calm surf. Uh, no. I've never fished the surf before, but I knew I was supposed to make it to the 2nd bar. On the first bar, I was getting hit in the sternum/chest. I tried a super spook, a spoon, and a plastic. Couldn't get action. Incoming tide, water was really moving, really brown.

I saw a bunch of pelicans and gulls going bananas just inside the mouth, so I walked down the beach and fished the mouth. Horse mullet everywhere, all of the birds had settled. Easily 100 pelicans on a little bar in the mouth. I threw plastics again, spoon (silver, threw gold in the surf), catch 2000, topwater (pink/gold), corky (orange/chart)... varied retrieves, nothing. The mouth was easily 50 yards across, Thigh deep for the most part, but I got to my chest when...

While I was fishing the mouth, a white Majek (looked like an illusion) with a red & white T top (like TX flag) came almost to me, through the deep gut by the birds. I was fishing that gut, and if I hadn't been casting towards them, they might have come all the way out. I was floored. I called Scott McLeod (GW) when I got back to my boat, they stayed fishing in the mouth for a while, and I drifted CB back towards Mesquite on the tide movement. They (majek) passed me while I was on my drift, heading out.

Other things noteworthy- 4 guys were camping at the No Boats sign, showed me the quickest route to the beach. I counted my steps on the way back, just over 200. I don't know my stride, but I'm 6'1, and I was loaded down.

Where I came out to the beach, I saw what looked like the tail & partial skeletal of a massive dead ray on the beach; completely void of tissue, it was 4' long, easy. I'll post a pic.

When I got back to my boat from fishing, there was a gator 50 yards from the no boats sign on the matagorda island side, in the shallow areas. The campers pointed it out, so I fished the water around it, staying a relatively safe distance though.


----------



## pocjetty

barronj said:


> I saw a bunch of pelicans and gulls going bananas just inside the mouth, so I walked down the beach and fished the mouth. Horse mullet everywhere, all of the birds had settled. Easily 100 pelicans on a little bar in the mouth.


 I wondered where all the pelicans had gotten off to. There were a bunch of them that stay right in front of the house we're building on Fulton Beach Road. Some time during all the rain, they disappeared. I was thinking about starting a thread about it, but I think you just solved the mystery.


----------



## barronj

pocjetty said:


> I wondered where all the pelicans had gotten off to. There were a bunch of them that stay right in front of the house we're building on Fulton Beach Road. Some time during all the rain, they disappeared. I was thinking about starting a thread about it, but I think you just solved the mystery.


I'm just north of you on FBR, little community called Beachwood, adjacent to the Raquet Club condos.

There were no other birds on the water on my return trip through Carlos, etc. While I was in the surf, I would see 4 or 5 fly one way, 4 or 5 flying the other way, high above the surf.


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## Sgrem

I took my 12 year old nephew and his lil buddy for all of our first trip to CB and their first wade fishing/artificial only trip. Great to get those boys out. Very sad to see the disrespect....had two boats come right down the CB gut in front of where we were fishing at the mouth way past the no boats sign. I very politely and very directly told then maybe yall didn't see but where all the boats are parked is a no boats beyond this boat sign. Please turn around and keep behind the sign.....also would appreciate if you wouldn't run thru where we are fishing. Both said oh didn't see the sign. I said ok.. it's on the beach right by the line of boats that are parked there. That's why all those boats are parked there. Please recognize next time.


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## barronj

Normally, I do not shirk confrontation; if I think someone needs to hear the 'pop' (when their head pops out of their rear end), I will tell them and not mince words in delivery. I should have done better, I guess.


----------



## justletmein

Sounds like a few people made the trip out over there weekend. Were there quite a few campers out there?


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## [email protected]

Glad to hear so many have interest in CB/VS and making the trip to check it out. We made the run down there Sunday from the Shoalwater Camp next to Charlie's Bait (end of Lane Road). Takes about 50 minutes in our 21 RFL. It was a beautiful ride, bay nearly flat. I had a strong hunch the west-southwest breeze (doesn't have to be a wind) would be doing a bad number on the surf but my buddy hadn't been there since a little kid when his granddad used to take him -- so we went anyway.

Chatted with the guys camping at the "No Boats Beyond" sign, friendly bunch. Checked out the little gator they named Sam...short for Samsonite...joked that he'd make a great briefcase. Lots of flow running through CB, which impressed me.

Expected to see more trash strewn about but the place was fairly clean and I appreciated that. Next time I'm going to take some trash bags and flounder gigs to police up the area a bit and haul back whatever I can remove. Gigs make picking up trash easier than bending over.

Some of the folks I spoke with said they did well in the surf early Saturday (to south of CB) and also where VS enters the "lake" on the inside. The consensus was that Fishing had been very slow Sunday morning.

We fished our way back hitting several places from Bray Cove to Panther Point, caught some U/S trout but that was it. W-SW had the water pretty messed up, pushing the fresh all the way to the bank, very murky. But we tried. Made a picnic at Panther. Enjoyed the sights and scenery. All in all an enjoyable day.


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## Sgrem

Alligator has been there for a while. His name is Albert the Alligator and he will swim all the way up to you so watch your stringer.


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## [email protected]

Albert...Sam...whichever, you are spot-on about watching your stringer. That little guy has almost no fear of humans. I'm sure he'd chomp on your stringer in a heartbeat.


----------



## Im Headed South

A flyover video a CCA board member took this past Sunday at the bayou, with all the freshwater and high tides things have really moved around out there in the last month. The timing is great as it will give everyone a good "before" picture with Bill coming inland just north of the bayou, it should be interesting the effect a tropical system will have even if it's a small one. If you don't check out the TTMB often you may want to open the "CB warning" thread, we're all praying for Bruce and hope he able to make a full recovery.


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## gman1772

I'm betting that chuck in the boat was chitting his britches when he saw the plane coming! Dad gum the game wardens are coming! Serves him right for blowing off that "No Boats" sign. :smile:


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## pocjetty

I would love to see some flyover video of Vinson's and all that back country around it. That's going to be an important part of this, in the long run.

I was there late last week. At low tide, the bayou looked like it was all but cut off. It was too late for me to walk out and see it up close, but there couldn't have been much water over it, if any. Not drawing any conclusions, just observing.

I was just across from the "no vessels past here" sign, and sunk a hook into my finger just shy of the barb. Makes me a little queasy after reading that post about the vibrio.


----------



## Bull Red

pocjetty said:


> I would love to see some flyover video of Vinson's and all that back country around it. That's going to be an important part of this, in the long run.
> 
> I was there late last week. At low tide, the bayou looked like it was all but cut off. It was too late for me to walk out and see it up close, but there couldn't have been much water over it, if any. Not drawing any conclusions, just observing.
> 
> I was just across from the "no vessels past here" sign, and sunk a hook into my finger just shy of the barb. Makes me a little queasy after reading that post about the vibrio.


From what I've learned about vibro, you will know if you have it within 12 hours so you're probably alright.


----------



## RubiconAg

It's interesting PocJetty that it seemed to be almost no flow or limited flow. It might have been the perspective you were seeing the mouth from. If you were looking down the bayou towards the gulf, the newly formed bar (since dredging) at the end could have clearly made it look almost silted in since the path makes a turn as it passes through the beach. I haven't been out there in a couple of months though so I can't say first. However, the pic is a still shot from the video above, seems to be very healthy in my opinion. Hopefully so! 

BTW - I couldn't remember if the dredge path was 50' or 150'. If it was 150', that, by scale, would make the mouth almost 400' wide.


----------



## pocjetty

RubiconAg said:


> It's interesting PocJetty that it seemed to be almost no flow or limited flow. It might have been the perspective you were seeing the mouth from. If you were looking down the bayou towards the gulf, the newly formed bar (since dredging) at the end could have clearly made it look almost silted in since the path makes a turn as it passes through the beach. I haven't been out there in a couple of months though so I can't say first. However, the pic is a still shot from the video above, seems to be very healthy in my opinion. Hopefully so!
> 
> BTW - I couldn't remember if the dredge path was 50' or 150'. If it was 150', that, by scale, would make the mouth almost 400' wide.


 You're dead on with that. That's the perspective I had, and I see the limits of it. Thanks for posting that. The tide was at a dead slack low, so it's no surprise that there wasn't any flow in either direction.

I did mention in the report that the water at the "no vessels" sign was very salty, unlike anything in any of the surrounding bays. So obviously it's getting fed. The water that evening was the lowest I've seen in quite a while. It was obvious from the water line that there had been lots of flow recently. I wish I had walked it now. I just didn't want to grind any oysters coming back in the dark.


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## barronj

That flyover was awesome!

Here's how it was when I fished it weekend of 6/6:

The chest deep might have gotten much deeper, I started back pedaling as I was walking in to the hole.


----------



## Sgrem

I'm 6'3". The area marked chest deep was over my head. I had to swim across to the little bar.


----------



## Im Headed South

sgrem said:


> I'm 6'3". The area marked chest deep was over my head. I had to swim across to the little bar.


I observed the same thing last time I walked it on the 31st, looks it has changed a bunch since then. Only other observation I'd make is that original dredge footprint at the beginning of the project is about 120' wide, permit called for it to be 100' wide at the bottom and by the time they dug back on the sides the width at surface fell somewhere between 120' and 140' on average.


----------



## barronj

I was only fishing the south side of that hole, I had boat pressure keeping me out... so I put chest plus :^)


----------



## jaybird1

*No respect*



gman1772 said:


> I'm betting that chuck in the boat was chitting his britches when he saw the plane coming! Dad gum the game wardens are coming! Serves him right for blowing off that "No Boats" sign. :smile:


Cannot believe how ignorant people are now days but I am an old school,hard headed,old fart anyways.


----------



## Net N Yahoo

Anyone been out since Bill hit?


----------



## JoshJ

Net N Yahoo said:


> Anyone been out since Bill hit?


Yes I flew over yesterday. I will put up pictures when I get to a real computer.

The mouth "appears" to be wider than in the previous video posted in this thread. The tide was still very high in all the back lakes.

Josh


----------



## Net N Yahoo

Can't wait to see them.


----------



## JoshJ

June 18


----------



## JoshJ

June 18 1:30 ish PM


----------



## jampen

Looks like Vinson's is gonna push itself all the way out to the gulf. That will be a good


----------



## Im Headed South

Wow, what a difference a few days make. Given the surge from Bill and the water going out the other direction things are changing a bunch. Thanks for the pics Josh.


----------



## Laguna Freak

Those are encouraging pix. Thank you for sharing!


----------



## Net N Yahoo

Check out this flyover from the 14th of June.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

Looking great!


----------



## cwbycrshr

LOL. 2 boats right at the mouth in that video. I see those "No boats beyond this point" signs are still not working.


----------



## Sgrem

cwbycrshr said:


> LOL. 2 boats right at the mouth in that video. I see those "No boats beyond this point" signs are still not working.


You might want to make the trip yourself. Those boats are right at the sign. Happy to see people following the rules and not mess it up for all of us.


----------



## daniel7930

That's what I thought. That they where right at the sign


----------



## cwbycrshr

daniel7930 said:


> That's what I thought. That they where right at the sign


I stand corrected. Thought I recalled the signs being much further back.


----------



## mesquitecountry

It looks like the mouth to vinsons is going to get blown out and that point cut off at some point by erosion. I wonder how this will effect the hydraulics of the system?


----------



## daniel7930

I know the game warden was in there this weekend Trying to catch them past that sign


----------



## Z

yes, saw him stopped with a boat at the entrance (back into mesquite)

Happy to see some LE presence finally.


----------



## daniel7930

He told me. There having a problem with a guide going past the no boat sign. What guide I don't know. But he wants to catch him there


----------



## Im Headed South

Guess I'll spill the beans. There are 3 guides doing it every day, 2 are Stoner Pro Staff members, one runs a Black Fury with Pro Staff plastered across the side, the other is the Sea Foam Colored one with the 300 G2 and twin power poles on it. The 3rd guide runs a old unmarked Vhull (maybe a southshore???) with a 140 four stroke zuki. This is what they do, they fish out there pretty much every day, they drive right past the sign with their clients and take them to the mouth, unload all of their gear, bait buckets, coolers, ect. They then drive the boats back to the sign, 2 of them jump into 1 boat and takes it takes them back to the clients and drops them off and then drives back and parks the boat back at the sign and only 1 guy has to walk the 200 or 300 yards to the mouth. The whole process is done again at the end of the day, 1 guy walks back and gets his boat, retrieves the other 2 guides then all 3 go back to pick up the customers at the mouth, once loaded they all run back out. Watched the whole process a few weeks ago, took pictures of the whole operation, along with 4 other boats past the sign, at least one I know is a member on here and this was all in less than a hour one Saturday afternoon. The guide in the black fury who I've seen a couple members recommend on here didn't care for me taking his pic while he was breaking the law and gave us some grief and his most cocky tone told to be sure and hurry to "call the game warden on them". I called the local warden I knew but got his voice mail so I reported the actions I saw, while they were down there loading customers 3 guys in a big new Sportsman Vhull drive right past the sign and words were exchanged while snapping their pic and it about ended up in a fist fight with them, watching them have to get out and push that tank off of the sandbar he ran up on was almost worth all the drama but not quite. We'd seen enough and left behind the guides as they headed toward the StC ramp. One of my buddies that was with us that day knows the guide in the black fury and decides to call him the next day to see what's up with their actions, the jest of his explanation was they know that it's wrong and if they get caught they'll pay the ticket and keep paying the tickets and write it off as the cost of doing business because they don't want their clients to have to walk through the dunes with all of their gear. I got a call from the game warden I'd left the message for and we talked for a good while about everything, they've fielded numerous calls about boats beyond the signs including the guides and have written some folks up but he said guides are a step ahead because they have network of eyes and ears all over the place from other guides, he said as soon as they launch at Goose or StC and run across Aransas the word gets distributed within the group. Wardens have some plans for them is all I'll say about that. Emailed all of pictures to the GW and he was seeing about opening a case based on what they showed but I have not heard if that happened yet. I also called a few folks further up the chain if command in Austin to just let know the same thing we were complaining about 3 months ago is still taking place on a daily bases. Haven't been back out there since then and unfortunately I really don't have the desire to, things got way too ugly and the F bombs exchanges are not how I want or should be acting in front of my wife and son so we'll probably stay clear of the site for a while, hopefully tpwd can get handle on the situation and a few more folks can respect the pass and the laws in place to protect it.


----------



## daniel7930

The warden said it was a guide with a big 300. I saw a sea foam fury at goose island on sat with a 300 g2. It's sad that doing business like that. Could ruin it for the rest of us


----------



## cxjcherokec

To my knowledge the guy with the sea foam fury is not a guide.


----------



## cxjcherokec

Mike, was the sportsman guys about 3-4 weeks ago? May have been a different set but I saw them take off before the sign and beached it pretty good before the channel. I was in the tan and black Fury with my wife and kids.


----------



## Im Headed South

This was the afternoon of June 27th, the same day as the famous New Water burner on St Joe. We got guys running between us in the morning and then this whole fiasco in the afternoon, vowed it was my last Saturday in RP this summer, been exclusively at night since then. We've been loading up heading home while this same group of guides are tieing up all of the dock space waiting for their customers at the StC ramp at daylight on the weekends, we just get dirty looks now lol.


----------



## cxjcherokec

That would be the day. Was around 1030-11am. I have yet to see yall on the water other than when your son brought the boat to rock the dock.


----------



## Copano/Aransas

Im Headed South said:


> Guess I'll spill the beans. There are 3 guides doing it every day, 2 are Stoner Pro Staff members, one runs a Black Fury with Pro Staff plastered across the side, the other is the Sea Foam Colored one with the 300 G2 and twin power poles on it. The 3rd guide runs a old unmarked Vhull (maybe a southshore???) with a 140 four stroke zuki. This is what they do, they fish out there pretty much every day, they drive right past the sign with their clients and take them to the mouth, unload all of their gear, bait buckets, coolers, ect. They then drive the boats back to the sign, 2 of them jump into 1 boat and takes it takes them back to the clients and drops them off and then drives back and parks the boat back at the sign and only 1 guy has to walk the 200 or 300 yards to the mouth. The whole process is done again at the end of the day, 1 guy walks back and gets his boat, retrieves the other 2 guides then all 3 go back to pick up the customers at the mouth, once loaded they all run back out. Watched the whole process a few weeks ago, took pictures of the whole operation, along with 4 other boats past the sign, at least one I know is a member on here and this was all in less than a hour one Saturday afternoon. The guide in the black fury who I've seen a couple members recommend on here didn't care for me taking his pic while he was breaking the law and gave us some grief and his most cocky tone told to be sure and hurry to "call the game warden on them". I called the local warden I knew but got his voice mail so I reported the actions I saw, while they were down there loading customers 3 guys in a big new Sportsman Vhull drive right past the sign and words were exchanged while snapping their pic and it about ended up in a fist fight with them, watching them have to get out and push that tank off of the sandbar he ran up on was almost worth all the drama but not quite. We'd seen enough and left behind the guides as they headed toward the StC ramp. One of my buddies that was with us that day knows the guide in the black fury and decides to call him the next day to see what's up with their actions, the jest of his explanation was they know that it's wrong and if they get caught they'll pay the ticket and keep paying the tickets and write it off as the cost of doing business because they don't want their clients to have to walk through the dunes with all of their gear. I got a call from the game warden I'd left the message for and we talked for a good while about everything, they've fielded numerous calls about boats beyond the signs including the guides and have written some folks up but he said guides are a step ahead because they have network of eyes and ears all over the place from other guides, he said as soon as they launch at Goose or StC and run across Aransas the word gets distributed within the group. Wardens have some plans for them is all I'll say about that. Emailed all of pictures to the GW and he was seeing about opening a case based on what they showed but I have not heard if that happened yet. I also called a few folks further up the chain if command in Austin to just let know the same thing we were complaining about 3 months ago is still taking place on a daily bases. Haven't been back out there since then and unfortunately I really don't have the desire to, things got way too ugly and the F bombs exchanges are not how I want or should be acting in front of my wife and son so we'll probably stay clear of the site for a while, hopefully tpwd can get handle on the situation and a few more folks can respect the pass and the laws in place to protect it.


We haven't been over to CB since around May, & it was local then. Man what's wrong with some of these guides, that do stuff like this ? Other than dumb aresness.  There sure setting a good example for their customersâ€¦NOT. sad3sm Hope they get busted. I don't blame you for fishing a night this time of year one bit, defiantly crazy this time of year on the weekends. Thank You for trying to address the matter and fix it!! Geen to ya.


----------



## wet dreams

Good job, guess I'm lucky with our local guy I don't think I've ever went to his voicemail, told me once if it didn't matter what time... he would come. Stay on their *****..


----------



## duckmania

I know the guy in the black stoner, kind of surprised he would do something like that, especially repeatedly. That's disappointing that they are being such pricks on a cool place.


----------



## Doubleover

Just asking a question, can someone explain why they don't want boats past a certain spot?


----------



## daniel7930

It's a fish pass.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

Doubleover said:


> Just asking a question, can someone explain why they don't want boats past a certain spot?


Erosion, there is no granite to keep it from washing away. 
Because they put lots of coin in this project and it was not a boat pass before.
Idiots can't stay floating in waters they navigate repeatedly that don't change much, this one does!
Because they put a sign up stating not to go past it.


----------



## Im Headed South

Doubleover said:


> Just asking a question, can someone explain why they don't want boats past a certain spot?


http://www.2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/showpost.php?p=13381178&postcount=486


----------



## pocjetty

Im Headed South said:


> Guess I'll spill the beans. There are 3 guides doing it every day, 2 are Stoner Pro Staff members, one runs a Black Fury with Pro Staff plastered across the side, the other is the Sea Foam Colored one with the 300 G2 and twin power poles on it.


Good for you, for taking the time. Rockport has some... issues, and this is one of them. I hear people bragging about their guides doing some VERY illegal things, and they're happy as can be, because they had a good meat haul.

You're also touching on one of the reasons I don't have anything good to say about TPWD. They enforce what they want to enforce, and they ignore what they want to ignore. I've seen enough over the years to be convinced that some of it is politics trickling down from Austin - and we all know what flows downhill.

Walking out on a pier and busting families from Iowa, catching hardheads on the bottom with dead shrimp, but without a license? That's easy money. Enforcing one set of rules on certain well-lobbied groups, out in the bays? Not so much.

We've got some guides here who think they own the bay. Think they have exclusive rights to their favorite spots, even if you were there first. I've heard them bluster, and threaten, and mock people about being junior game wardens. Until a few more people start speaking up, I don't see it getting any better. If you've got pictures to back it up, I think a little public exposure is definitely in order. Much green to you.


----------



## Lone-Star

Im Headed South said:


> Guess I'll spill the beans. There are 3 guides doing it every day, 2 are Stoner Pro Staff members, one runs a Black Fury with Pro Staff plastered across the side, the other is the Sea Foam Colored one with the 300 G2 and twin power poles on it. The 3rd guide runs a old unmarked Vhull (maybe a southshore???) with a 140 four stroke zuki. This is what they do, they fish out there pretty much every day, they drive right past the sign with their clients and take them to the mouth, unload all of their gear, bait buckets, coolers, ect. They then drive the boats back to the sign, 2 of them jump into 1 boat and takes it takes them back to the clients and drops them off and then drives back and parks the boat back at the sign and only 1 guy has to walk the 200 or 300 yards to the mouth. The whole process is done again at the end of the day, 1 guy walks back and gets his boat, retrieves the other 2 guides then all 3 go back to pick up the customers at the mouth, once loaded they all run back out. Watched the whole process a few weeks ago, took pictures of the whole operation, along with 4 other boats past the sign, at least one I know is a member on here and this was all in less than a hour one Saturday afternoon. The guide in the black fury who I've seen a couple members recommend on here didn't care for me taking his pic while he was breaking the law and gave us some grief and his most cocky tone told to be sure and hurry to "call the game warden on them". I called the local warden I knew but got his voice mail so I reported the actions I saw, while they were down there loading customers 3 guys in a big new Sportsman Vhull drive right past the sign and words were exchanged while snapping their pic and it about ended up in a fist fight with them, watching them have to get out and push that tank off of the sandbar he ran up on was almost worth all the drama but not quite. We'd seen enough and left behind the guides as they headed toward the StC ramp. One of my buddies that was with us that day knows the guide in the black fury and decides to call him the next day to see what's up with their actions, the jest of his explanation was they know that it's wrong and if they get caught they'll pay the ticket and keep paying the tickets and write it off as the cost of doing business because they don't want their clients to have to walk through the dunes with all of their gear. I got a call from the game warden I'd left the message for and we talked for a good while about everything, they've fielded numerous calls about boats beyond the signs including the guides and have written some folks up but he said guides are a step ahead because they have network of eyes and ears all over the place from other guides, he said as soon as they launch at Goose or StC and run across Aransas the word gets distributed within the group. Wardens have some plans for them is all I'll say about that. Emailed all of pictures to the GW and he was seeing about opening a case based on what they showed but I have not heard if that happened yet. I also called a few folks further up the chain if command in Austin to just let know the same thing we were complaining about 3 months ago is still taking place on a daily bases. Haven't been back out there since then and unfortunately I really don't have the desire to, things got way too ugly and the F bombs exchanges are not how I want or should be acting in front of my wife and son so we'll probably stay clear of the site for a while, hopefully tpwd can get handle on the situation and a few more folks can respect the pass and the laws in place to protect it.


Sounds like the game wardens could hitch a ride on an unmarked boat and really clean up.


----------



## Hollon

5 boats on the wrong side of the sign. Two went to the mouth and dropped off. 3 boat loads tied up and walked to the surf. There was plenty of bank space to park on the legal side of the sign. I guess they just didn't want to walk the extra 20 yards. They are the ones that will circle the Walmart parking lot for an hour to get a handicap spot right at the door.


----------



## Marshman

I don't fish this area, but it sure burns me up, to see ANYONE taking advantage of something so many people worked hard for so long for.

You guys that fish here often - how about starting a thread on " guys breaking the law at Cedar Bayou"?

And post pictures - a bit of SHAME would likely bring some humility to those guys. They can't easily stop you from taking pictures, when they are 300 yards from their boats now can they?

And TPWD can't ignore for long, repeated pictures of lawbreakers being posted can they?

Well?


----------



## EdK

The wall of shame idea is a good one Marshman!


----------



## Im Headed South

Here are a few I don't think TPWD will be using in any pending or future cases, I'll hold on to those. We're sitting straight across from the sign and it's less than 40 yards across there at that point so things happen close. Kind of felt sorry for the guy on the front of the Sportsman, he was standing next to the driver and pointed out the sign to the driver and the driver wasn't interested in what it had to say and drove right past it so the other guy went and sat in front of the console and never said a word or got off that seat while we were getting after each other. Went ahead and covered the female in the kini on the front of the scb, no need to get this thread locked. Think I recognize a boat I've seen a member on here post before poled down there on the right but I could be wrong, boats up on plane in the center are the guides going to pick up their clients at the mouth.


----------



## Marshman

*Wall of shame!!!*



EdK said:


> The wall of shame idea is a good one Marshman!


ANNNNnndnddDDDD, Let the games begin! But lets respect this great thread, and start a new one, OK?

Extra bonus points for closeups that show TX numbers!


----------



## justletmein

Sure looks busy out there.


----------



## justletmein

Im Headed South said:


> Guess I'll spill the beans. There are 3 guides doing it every day, 2 are Stoner Pro Staff members, one runs a Black Fury with Pro Staff plastered across the side, the other is the Sea Foam Colored one with the 300 G2 and twin power poles on it. The 3rd guide runs a old unmarked Vhull (maybe a southshore???) with a 140 four stroke zuki. This is what they do, they fish out there pretty much every day, they drive right past the sign with their clients and take them to the mouth, unload all of their gear, bait buckets, coolers, ect. They then drive the boats back to the sign, 2 of them jump into 1 boat and takes it takes them back to the clients and drops them off and then drives back and parks the boat back at the sign and only 1 guy has to walk the 200 or 300 yards to the mouth. The whole process is done again at the end of the day, 1 guy walks back and gets his boat, retrieves the other 2 guides then all 3 go back to pick up the customers at the mouth, once loaded they all run back out. Watched the whole process a few weeks ago, took pictures of the whole operation, along with 4 other boats past the sign, at least one I know is a member on here and this was all in less than a hour one Saturday afternoon. The guide in the black fury who I've seen a couple members recommend on here didn't care for me taking his pic while he was breaking the law and gave us some grief and his most cocky tone told to be sure and hurry to "call the game warden on them". I called the local warden I knew but got his voice mail so I reported the actions I saw, while they were down there loading customers 3 guys in a big new Sportsman Vhull drive right past the sign and words were exchanged while snapping their pic and it about ended up in a fist fight with them, watching them have to get out and push that tank off of the sandbar he ran up on was almost worth all the drama but not quite. We'd seen enough and left behind the guides as they headed toward the StC ramp. One of my buddies that was with us that day knows the guide in the black fury and decides to call him the next day to see what's up with their actions, the jest of his explanation was they know that it's wrong and if they get caught they'll pay the ticket and keep paying the tickets and write it off as the cost of doing business because they don't want their clients to have to walk through the dunes with all of their gear. I got a call from the game warden I'd left the message for and we talked for a good while about everything, they've fielded numerous calls about boats beyond the signs including the guides and have written some folks up but he said guides are a step ahead because they have network of eyes and ears all over the place from other guides, he said as soon as they launch at Goose or StC and run across Aransas the word gets distributed within the group. Wardens have some plans for them is all I'll say about that. Emailed all of pictures to the GW and he was seeing about opening a case based on what they showed but I have not heard if that happened yet. I also called a few folks further up the chain if command in Austin to just let know the same thing we were complaining about 3 months ago is still taking place on a daily bases. Haven't been back out there since then and unfortunately I really don't have the desire to, things got way too ugly and the F bombs exchanges are not how I want or should be acting in front of my wife and son so we'll probably stay clear of the site for a while, hopefully tpwd can get handle on the situation and a few more folks can respect the pass and the laws in place to protect it.


Good work on that, if you're willing to testify they should be able to prosecute based on the pics I would think. Maybe they need a "red light camera" out there... but I guess it wouldn't last 24 hours before being vandalized. They may just have to add bouys and line across the mouth to stop it for good.


----------



## CaptBrad

You just had to "tamper" with the evidence and the gingerbread man didn't you?


----------



## sotexhookset

Was the pic of the chic in the bikini that good? Or bad or whatever? Let us judge then you can edit it. lol.

I'm one to each his own in most cases but when it comes to this kind of chit good job on the pics and call to the GW on these pricks. If they don't get that running their boats out and creating wash from the wake won't effect the pass and will eventually get it shut down to everyone then they're as dumb as they sound when talking to most of those arrogant fks. Lil dik syndrome in a wholllle lot of them.


----------



## Rooster 1

You will never stop those meatheads from passing the sign.Some will come on here and cry about those who go passed it and then do it them selves on the weekend.Makes no sense.


----------



## barronj

They should make the fine amount discretionary, and set by Judge Mills. If it's a non-local or not a charter, a slap on the wrist of $300. If it's a charter, hit them where it hurts, get the captain and his clients; everyone on the boat gets a fine, captain gets a minimum $500 plus $200 for everyone on the boat, everyone on the boat gets a $200 fine. Put that on a sign adjacent to the no boats sign. There would be no more discussion, because surely nobody would be so ****all stupid as that.


----------



## Rooster 1

barronj said:


> They should make the fine amount discretionary, and set by Judge Mills. If it's a non-local or not a charter, a slap on the wrist of $300. If it's a charter, hit them where it hurts, get the captain and his clients; everyone on the boat gets a fine, captain gets a minimum $500 plus $200 for everyone on the boat, everyone on the boat gets a $200 fine. Put that on a sign adjacent to the no boats sign. There would be no more discussion, because surely nobody would be so ****all stupid as that.


X2


----------



## southpaw

barronj said:


> surely nobody would be so ****all stupid as that.


You give people waaaaaay too much credit


----------



## pocjetty

sotexhookset said:


> Was the pic of the chic in the bikini that good? Or bad or whatever? Let us judge then you can edit it. lol.


I don't know, but that gingerbread girl is smokin'!


----------



## barronj

southpaw said:


> barronj said:
> 
> 
> 
> surely nobody would be so ****all stupid as that.
> 
> 
> 
> You give people waaaaaay too much credit
Click to expand...

A man can dream...


----------



## Im Headed South

Bouys were the suggestion I had, any lake you go on in TX usually has "no boats" bouys around the dam or spill way areas so string them across there, well Austin says any bouys in saltwater is the call of the Coast Guard and that they would approach them with the idea and get back to me which was probably back in April, still waiting on a response. Hopefully something can be done on a local level between the County and TPWD because if the Feds get involved you can kiss access to the area goodbye, they wouldn't think twice to running bouys and cables across the mouth at Mesquite to keep those mean recs from messing with the endangered turtles, plovers, and dune rats that are back there.


----------



## barronj

mesquite country said:


> Question:
> 
> Why are Yall so worried about everyone else? I don't fish the actual channel, I'm glad the channel is open to provide abundance to mesquite and Aransas bay systems.
> 
> Let the tpwd worry about who is breaking what laws.
> 
> If some jack leg runs his boat aground on a sand bar beyond the no boat sign he's liable any way.


Voluminous amounts of people have invested lots of money, sweat, and effort in to getting this done. It's a fish pass, not an emboldened guide's escalator to a fishing mecca. Improving the fishing and restoring the passes effects on the bay system was the design and the intent. Cedar and Vinson getting gulf water is HUGE. The people who are breaking the law here are entitled j-holes that could potentially eff it up for the rest of us, including those of us who have labored intensely to re-create and improve a legendary fishing spot.

You ever call 911 because you see something illegal happening? There is no 911 for game wardens. It's a state police officer with a cell phone who's on a boat, and he might be there in 30 minutes with any luck. I think it's important for people to be concerned about illegal activity in a brand-new-to-most-of-us fish pass and fishing spot. It's not about ratting out people with expired trailer or boat registration tags or boxing 14" trout, this is much larger than that; it's about preserving what so much effort was put in to recreating.


----------



## SolarScreenGuy

After all we've been through to get these historical passes re-opened and then hear about some disrespectful idiots willfully ignoring the rules makes me want to puke. You a--holes that refuse to obey the simple rules regarding this treasured and extremely important area need to be punished. I say report any and all who run their boats passed the line to the authorities and then follow up to make sure appropriate action is taken against all violators.

www.solarscreenguys.com


----------



## mesquitecountry

barronj said:


> Voluminous amounts of people have invested lots of money, sweat, and effort in to getting this done. It's a fish pass, not an emboldened guide's escalator to a fishing mecca. Improving the fishing and restoring the passes effects on the bay system was the design and the intent. Cedar and Vinson getting gulf water is HUGE. The people who are breaking the law here are entitled j-holes that could potentially eff it up for the rest of us, including those of us who have labored intensely to re-create and improve a legendary fishing spot.
> 
> You ever call 911 because you see something illegal happening? There is no 911 for game wardens. It's a state police officer with a cell phone who's on a boat, and he might be there in 30 minutes with any luck. I think it's important for people to be concerned about illegal activity in a brand-new-to-most-of-us fish pass and fishing spot. It's not about ratting out people with expired trailer or boat registration tags or boxing 14" trout, this is much larger than that; it's about preserving what so much effort was put in to recreating.


Not the same scenario. Someone driving passed the boat sign is not the same as calling 911 when your neighbor is being robbed.

All they are doing is being lazy. You can walk to the same spots they are and fish, so they aren't stealing anything either. It's a public water way.

They didn't set it up as a boat pass as it requires more improved maintenance.

Like I said. The people cruising passed the boat sign arent hurting you, I, or the pass. It's their own risk and stupidity.

Though, I wouldn't drive passed it. I believe in following most rules. I was taught better than these folks.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Puddle_Jumper

barronj said:


> Voluminous amounts of people have invested lots of money, sweat, and effort in to getting this done. It's a fish pass, not an emboldened guide's escalator to a fishing mecca. Improving the fishing and restoring the passes effects on the bay system was the design and the intent. Cedar and Vinson getting gulf water is HUGE. The people who are breaking the law here are entitled j-holes that could potentially eff it up for the rest of us, including those of us who have labored intensely to re-create and improve a legendary fishing spot.
> 
> You ever call 911 because you see something illegal happening? There is no 911 for game wardens. It's a state police officer with a cell phone who's on a boat, and he might be there in 30 minutes with any luck. I think it's important for people to be concerned about illegal activity in a brand-new-to-most-of-us fish pass and fishing spot. It's not about ratting out people with expired trailer or boat registration tags or boxing 14" trout, this is much larger than that; it's about preserving what so much effort was put in to recreating.


Well said Barronj.. Well said !!!!!


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## Copano/Aransas

mesquitecountry said:


> Not the same scenario. Someone driving passed the boat sign is not the same as calling 911 when your neighbor is being robbed.
> 
> All they are doing is being lazy. You can walk to the same spots they are and fish, so they aren't stealing anything either. It's a public water way.
> 
> They didn't set it up as a boat pass as it requires more improved maintenance.
> 
> Like I said. The people cruising passed the boat sign arent hurting you, I, or the pass. It's their own risk and stupidity.
> 
> Though, I wouldn't drive passed it. I believe in following most rules. I was taught better than these folks.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


So as long as it doesn't affect or hurt you, ignore it ? We're not acting like tattle- tails here, we're simply trying to preserve Cedar Bayou for the rest of us, that enjoy the resource. By reporting the people that can't obey a water law to the Game Wardens. Kinda like watching people run a stop sign day after day and saying "well it doesn't affect me so why report them to the police". Kinda of a narrow minded way to look at it IMO.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mesquitecountry

Copano/Aransas said:


> So as long as it doesn't affect or hurt you, get ignore it ? We're not acting like tattle- tails here, we're simply trying to preserve Cedar Bayou for the rest of us, that enjoy the resource. By reporting the people that can't obey a water law to the Game Wardens. Kinda like watching people run a stop sign day after day and saying "well it doesn't affect me so why report them to the police". Kinda of a narrow minded way to look at it IMO.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That's why there are police and game wardens. I'm sure you have run a stop sign or two in life, purposefully or accidentally. If it doesn't hurt me, involve me, or harm another, it's none of my business. I could go into a deeper discussion about people minding their own business and getting offended over every little thing, but I won't.

And yes, I am exactly saying people are acting like tattle tales. Look mom, Johnny keeps touching me even though you told him not to. I even have video. If you call the cops to report illegal fish being kept, all for it. That's an actual crime.

Please show me how someone driving passed the boat sign is an actual ecological harm to the pass. And no not some moron hitting bottom. A true biological harm. I would change my stance, however there isn't. (Granted some act of destruction or terror event to close the pass would be your reasoning, but bad people don't care about laws and would do it anyway).

Otherwise the pass itself isn't all that fish able. There are a ton of better spots to fish than the actual pass itself. Sure the surf is great but you can fish that if you walk to it. So there is no crime being committed to fishery.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Spec-Rig.006

Y'all are ruining a good thread. Start a new thread - "Butt hurt in the bayou vs. conservation ... "

More pics/fly-overs please ...


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## mesquitecountry

Spec-Rig.006 said:


> Y'all are ruining a good thread. Start a new thread - "Butt hurt in the bayou vs. conservation ... "
> 
> More pics/fly-overs please ...


This^^^^

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Im Headed South

Your flat out wrong if you don't think people running up on plane past the sign isn't having a negative impact on the pass. And I'll continue to report and picture every ***** I see doing it and if they call me a tattle tale for doing then fark em. I never saw any of them in the meetings when trying obtain the permit or the ones looking for funding, some of us have a little to much invested in the project to see it ruined by others.


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## fattyflattie

Im Headed South said:


> Your flat out wrong if you don't think people running up on plane past the sign isn't having a negative impact on the pass. And I'll continue to report and picture every ***** I see doing it and if they call me a tattle tale for doing then fark em. I never saw any of them in the meetings when trying obtain the permit or the ones looking for funding, some of us have a little to much invested in the project to see it ruined by others.


I support this. Can't obey the rules, GTFO.


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## Bocephus

Im Headed South said:


> Your flat out wrong if you don't think people running up on plane past the sign isn't having a negative impact on the pass. And I'll continue to report and picture every ***** I see doing it and if they call me a tattle tale for doing then *fark em*. I never saw any of them in the meetings when trying obtain the permit or the ones looking for funding, some of us have a little to much invested in the project to see it ruined by others.


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## Net N Yahoo

Unfortunately it is going to take a physical barrier to keep people from going past the signs. And even then, some will still manage to get past it.


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## Rooster 1

Net N Yahoo said:


> Unfortunately it is going to take a physical barrier to keep people from going past the signs. And even then, some will still manage to get past it.


Yes your right and they will do it just because it's there.Don't know why these idiots can follow the rules.Life would be a lot smoother if idiots like these would just do the right thing.


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## timberhunter

Im Headed South said:


> Your flat out wrong if you don't think people running up on plane past the sign isn't having a negative impact on the pass. And I'll continue to report and picture every ***** I see doing it and if they call me a tattle tale for doing then fark em. I never saw any of them in the meetings when trying obtain the permit or the ones looking for funding, some of us have a little to much invested in the project to see it ruined by others.


please explain what its hurting? I'm just asking b/c I'm curious, really want to know how running a boat engine in water over sand is going to hurt anything, it def. can't be causing anymore silting any worse than a strong current. I personally won't go past the sign but would like to see some scientific data on what its going to hurt.


----------



## lurker

timberhunter said:


> please explain what its hurting? I'm just asking b/c I'm curious, really want to know how running a boat engine in water over sand is going to hurt anything, it def. can't be causing anymore silting any worse than a strong current. I personally won't go past the sign but would like to see some scientific data on what its going to hurt.


1) because those are the rules that we all have to abide by. if you want to get the rules changed, have at it. as it stands now, those are the rules.

2) rules or not, having an area that isn't constantly being hammered by boats is not a bad thing. you just may find better fishing where the boats _aren't_. crazy concept, i know. and before i'm accused of anything, i do not own a kayak. i do, however, own a boat.


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## fishinmajician

Lurker - I don't disagree with what you are saying, but what is it HURTING?


----------



## timberhunter

lurker said:


> 1) because those are the rules that we all have to abide by. if you want to get the rules changed, have at it. as it stands now, those are the rules.
> 
> 2) rules or not, having an area that isn't constantly being hammered by boats is not a bad thing. you just may find better fishing where the boats _aren't_. crazy concept, i know. and before i'm accused of anything, i do not own a kayak. i do, however, own a boat.


I understand the rules, that's not what I'm asking. I already stated I wouldn't go past the sign, I get rules and I follow them. He stated it had an impact on the pass with boats going past the sign. how so and what scientific data is there to back that up. I get why they have the signs there and the rules in place but I'm pretty sure it's to protect the idiots that will try and run the pass and either kill themselves or someone else. From the air it doesn't look passable for 90% of the boats out there and probably 98% of the people driving the 10% of boats that could make it. I can't foresee any impact on the pass itself, currents have more impact on silting then the exhaust of an outboard or the wake of a boat on plane. I'm good with the way it is with signs but you can't make that statement without some kind of data to back it up. You start not allowing boats in areas and you're walking a fine line that the wade paddle pole peeps were trying to exploit.


----------



## Fishtexx

timberhunter said:


> please explain what its hurting? I'm just asking b/c I'm curious, really want to know how running a boat engine in water over sand is going to hurt anything, it def. can't be causing anymore silting any worse than a strong current. I personally won't go past the sign but would like to see some scientific data on what its going to hurt.


 Boat wakes cause un-natural erosion. Oh, and IT'S AGAINST THE LAW! Follow the rules idiots, and we will not have to contend with more laws/rules nor will we have to deal with the undoing of a lot of hard work by a few dedicated people. I have not been there since early 90's when it was still flowing, and I would like to see it agian. One of the most majical places on the Texas coast, I have some great memories from there.


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## lurker

timberhunter said:


> You start not allowing boats in areas and you're walking a fine line that the wade paddle pole peeps were trying to exploit.


i know you've stated that you would follow the rules. i do not want to derail the thread, but here goes...

i am 100% ok with what railbird does in muddy shallow channels on youtube. i would also be in favor of having more areas that outboards are not allowed, specifically because i think that it would make the fishing in these areas better. we shouldn't need these laws, but people believe that because their boat _can_ get into every acre of the bay system, that they_ should_ get into every acre of the bay system. can't count the number of times that i've parked my boat on the outside of a bayou/lake, walked back to it, started peacefully and quietly catching fish, only to have some shallow boat blow through the place and shut everything down. too lazy to fish these areas without bothering the fish and the others fishing for them? there are plenty of well tavelled, more boat-accessible places to fish.

my opinion won't be popular on here, but it is my opinion.

again, i did not want to derail the thread, but taking your boat somehwere others do not (due to the law, or otherwise) because you physically can, grinds my gears.


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## Im Headed South

I'm not wasting anymore of my time justifying the law and make no mistake it is a *state law* not a rule. If you want to take some time to learn about the design of the project feel free to contact Coastal Harbor Engineering in CC or Austin, if want to learn about the permit and what was required and the scope that the COE laid out that had to be followed not only before and during the project but also the 5 years of required monitoring after the completion of the project feel free to contact Judge Mills office in Aransas County for a copy of the permit, if you like to educate yourself to the Fish Pass Proclamation act that the legislator passed back in the 90's that pertains to all Fish Pass's not just CB then talk to either your local state rep, senator or someone with TPWD Coastal Fisheries in Austin. Go ahead and put in the time others have to learn about the project then get back to me about having to justify that boat wakes are not positive for the pass.


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## Black Dog

Lots of money and time spent studying boat wake erosion:
Just one example:
http://www.pianc.org/downloads/dwa/Wglamore_DPWApaper.pdf


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## mesquitecountry

For arguments sake, let's keep the math simple. Let's say 10 boats a day pass the sign, there is zero chance that the few people passing it will erode it. 

The current rolling through there is 10000x stronger than 10 propellers or wake.

Also, if this were true the area before the sign would silt up quickly. Which invalidates this claim.

Don't get me wrong, im not advocating breaking laws. I am however saying tattling on people that carries little to no ecological impact except other than be to be John Q. Public street police is simply more than whining to mom or dad. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## timberhunter

lurker said:


> i know you've stated that you would follow the rules. i do not want to derail the thread, but here goes...
> 
> i am 100% ok with what railbird does in muddy shallow channels on youtube. i would also be in favor of having more areas that outboards are not allowed, specifically because i think that it would make the fishing in these areas better. we shouldn't need these laws, but people believe that because their boat _can_ get into every acre of the bay system, that they_ should_ get into every acre of the bay system. can't count the number of times that i've parked my boat on the outside of a bayou/lake, walked back to it, started peacefully and quietly catching fish, only to have some shallow boat blow through the place and shut everything down. too lazy to fish these areas without bothering the fish and the others fishing for them? there are plenty of well tavelled, more boat-accessible places to fish.
> 
> my opinion won't be popular on here, but it is my opinion.
> 
> again, i did not want to derail the thread, but taking your boat somehwere others do not (due to the law, or otherwise) because you physically can, grinds my gears.


I hear ya but you can't have it both ways. What about barges going by a refuge, those wakes have more of an impact than outer boat wakes. Be careful for what you wish for is all I'm saying. What railbird does is just as if not more damaging to that particular ecosystem. The inland bays and marshes are full of little and very different ecosystems. I am def. not for more restricted access, you give an inch and they take mile and you never see that again. What's wrong with most our coastal fisherman/boaters is stupidity. It's one thing you can't fix, once stupid, always stupid. 
Not you particularly but You can't harp on people for not knowing anything about the project or call them out when I doubt there is anyone on this thread who hasn't donated thousands to CCA over the years and hundreds if not thousands more to get this project off the ground. You'd still be talking about a beach if it wasn't for everyone's wallets. Any CCA thing you buy whether it be a pair of pliers, go to a banquet, or register for the star tourney, means you had a part in getting this project done. Yes there were others who had a bigger hand in it but everyone who spends a dime with CCA was a help. Money talks BS walks gentlemen. If it's that big of a deal they would have some water cops down there every weekend generating revenue


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## Rooster 1

What difference does the data make? rules state 'do not go past this point'....period!...rules are rules.


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## Rooster 1

timberhunter said:


> I hear ya but you can't have it both ways. What about barges going by a refuge, those wakes have more of an impact than outer boat wakes. Be careful for what you wish for is all I'm saying. What railbird does is just as if not more damaging to that particular ecosystem. The inland bays and marshes are full of little and very different ecosystems. I am def. not for more restricted access, you give an inch and they take mile and you never see that again. What's wrong with most our coastal fisherman/boaters is stupidity. It's one thing you can't fix, once stupid, always stupid.
> Not you particularly but You can't harp on people for not knowing anything about the project or call them out when I doubt there is anyone on this thread who hasn't donated thousands to CCA over the years and hundreds if not thousands more to get this project off the ground. You'd still be talking about a beach if it wasn't for everyone's wallets. Any CCA thing you buy whether it be a pair of pliers, go to a banquet, or register for the star tourney, means you had a part in getting this project done. Yes there were others who had a bigger hand in it but everyone who spends a dime with CCA was a help. Money talks BS walks gentlemen. If it's that big of a deal they would have some water cops down there every weekend generating revenue


 If it wasn't that big a deal do you think they would have spent the millions to open it?


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## fritz423

I can see the judge now: 

"Let's see, the defendent was caught slowly driving his boat on an area that was designed to allow water to pass from the ocean to the bays? Okay, so what was the crime again? Did he steal something? No? Keep more than his limit? No? Then what the heck are you wasting the courts time for exactly, Warden?"

"Well, Your Honor, there was a sign."

"Good Lord"


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## Im Headed South

My bet is when in front of a Judge in Aransas County that conversation is going to quite differently.


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## mesquitecountry

I don't believe anyone here is saying CB isn't a big deal. Far from the contrary. I've seen it change that entire ecosystem in what 10 months now? You couldn't find a trout in southern mesquite bay before it opened. Now they are coming back. It's only going to get better. 

Barges cannot navigate CB, heck some deep running bay boats can barely navigate it. 

Again, I'm not advocating breaking the law, but let's chill a bit with the citizens on patrol attitude that's overtaken this thread. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Copano/Aransas

Im Headed South said:


> Your flat out wrong if you don't think people running up on plane past the sign isn't having a negative impact on the pass. And I'll continue to report and picture every ***** I see doing it and if they call me a tattle tale for doing then fark em. I never saw any of them in the meetings when trying obtain the permit or the ones looking for funding, some of us have a little to much invested in the project to see it ruined by others.


Exactly!!! What i was telling mesquite with the stop sign analogy, if you see someone run a stop sign day in and day out you report them to the LEO. People need to quit having the "well it doesn't affect or hurt me" mentality. I'm going to start another thread were we can continue the discussion without derailing this one anymore.



fattyflattie said:


> I support this. Can't obey the rules, GTFO.


X2.



Bocephus said:


>


Yup.



Net N Yahoo said:


> Unfortunately it is going to take a physical barrier to keep people from going past the signs. And even then, some will still manage to get past it.


So true.


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## timberhunter

Im Headed South said:


> My bet is when in front of a Judge in Aransas County that conversation is going to quite differently.


I would imagine you're correct on this. I'm glad it's open, I couldn't find a stitch of bait in that joint a few years ago when I last fished it. Few years before that we had a pretty decent day in there. I could only imagine the improvement that's happened allready to mesquite and all surrounding areas down there, it def. needed some influx of water. Like I said I'm cool with the sign and how it is now, I wish they would have went a few steps farther and put some small jetties in, I think that would have made it better, I'm still not convinced it's going to stay open but I really hope it does. I'd be more worried about the trash then the boat wakes though, that's what's going to get it shut down to public use. Lazy mofos, guess you could say that about the boats running past the sign too though.


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## fattyflattie

My guess is the same guys that run past this sign are the same guys that keep a few 14"a to make that limit. I really wish they'd make a fishing license $1500/yr. would really weed a lot of the lawbreakers out.


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## SolarScreenGuy

timberhunter said:


> I would imagine you're correct on this. I'm glad it's open, I couldn't find a stitch of bait in that joint a few years ago when I last fished it. Few years before that we had a pretty decent day in there. I could only imagine the improvement that's happened allready to mesquite and all surrounding areas down there, it def. needed some influx of water. Like I said I'm cool with the sign and how it is now, I wish they would have went a few steps farther and put some small jetties in, I think that would have made it better, I'm still not convinced it's going to stay open but I really hope it does. I'd be more worried about the trash then the boat wakes though, that's what's going to get it shut down to public use. Lazy mofos, guess you could say that about the boats running past the sign too though.


I think it will stay open with some maintenance from time to time. I understand the funds are in place for that should it become necessary. A lot of folks don't realize that the engineering firm who planned this whole thing is considered to be the best on the planet. They know what they are doing. There are some who believe that mother nature will find her historic footprint of the passes and they will become even wider and deeper over time. We will see. CB/VS was at one time a very impressive connection to the GOM. I've read historic letters from field commanders of the Confederate Army that said they were doubtful about crossing Cedar Bayou when they were ordered to sweep all the way up to Pass Cavallo where there was a major Union Army encampment who had control of the entire Matagorda Bay. Indianola was the main port area used by the Union Forces for shipping of supplies and weapons. Fascinating history.

www.solarscreenguys.com


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## Chuckybrown

*"What difference does it make?" "What is it hurting?"*

Therein lies the problem with today's world....far beyond boats going past a sign.....


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## Smackdaddy53

Chuckybrown said:


> *"What difference does it make?" "What is it hurting?"*
> 
> Therein lies the problem with today's world....far beyond boats going past a sign.....


Exactly! The idiots with this mentality are the same ones who think just because they have a tournament coming up on Saturday that it justifies burning flats and shorelines trying to get redfish to push and show themselves so they can TRY to come back and catch them two or three days later. Tough titty for anyone trying to fish that area when they are burning it and running all the fish off to deep water. I witnessed three boats burn the ENTIRE back lake I was poling yesterday. Not one of them stopped and fished. I was poling the shoreline and the reds were so skittish they were spooking before the lure hit the water. We saw about 10 fish with prop marks on them across their back. I wish inconsiderate people would get banned from the water and take up golf or something else. It is ridiculous. 
Bottom line, there is a whole lot of dumbass out there on the water and it is only getting worse.


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## txbred

SolarScreenGuy said:


> I think it will stay open with some maintenance from time to time. I understand the funds are in place for that should it become necessary. A lot of folks don't realize that the engineering firm who planned this whole thing is considered to be the best on the planet. They know what they are doing. There are some who believe that mother nature will find her historic footprint of the passes and they will become even wider and deeper over time. We will see. CB/VS was at one time a very impressive connection to the GOM. I've read historic letters from field commanders of the Confederate Army that said they were doubtful about crossing Cedar Bayou when they were ordered to sweep all the way up to Pass Cavallo where there was a major Union Army encampment who had control of the entire Matagorda Bay. Indianola was the main port area used by the Union Forces for shipping of supplies and weapons. *Fascinating history.*
> 
> www.solarscreenguys.com


I snagged this pic last Aug during a tournament in Aransas Pass.


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## Rubberback

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Exactly! The idiots with this mentality are the same ones who think just because they have a tournament coming up on Saturday that it justifies burning flats and shorelines trying to get redfish to push and show themselves so they can TRY to come back and catch them two or three days later. Tough titty for anyone trying to fish that area when they are burning it and running all the fish off to deep water. I witnessed three boats burn the ENTIRE back lake I was poling yesterday. Not one of them stopped and fished. I was poling the shoreline and the reds were so skittish they were spooking before the lure hit the water. We saw about 10 fish with prop marks on them across their back. I wish inconsiderate people would get banned from the water and take up golf or something else. It is ridiculous.
> Bottom line, there is a whole lot of dumbass out there on the water and it is only getting worse.


Been that way forever. They will fix the problem of trespassing beyond the sign eventually. Once they tag a few with heavy fines & the word gets out it should stop that problem.


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## EliteBoatStorage

We all waited, anticipated, and enjoy the pass. Why anyone wants to screw it up is beyond me! TPWD code 66.204 sec. a & b dictate the Fish Pass regulations. It is a class C parks and wildlife misdemeanor, fine range $25 to $500 plus Court Cost. We have a duty to abide by the laws that have made our fishing the best in the United States of America.


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## Spec-Rig.006

timberhunter said:


> ... how so and what scientific data is there to back that up ... I'm good with the way it is with signs but you can't make that statement without some kind of data to back it up. You start not allowing boats in areas and you're walking a fine line that the wade paddle pole peeps were trying to exploit.


Literally COUNTLESS scientific studies have proved that the reduction of vehicular traffic in environmentally sensitive areas aid in mitigation efforts. Pretty much common sense aside from any one of millions of studies you could Google or find at the Library ... How is this even an argument ... ?!?!?!?


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## timberhunter

Spec-Rig.006 said:


> Literally COUNTLESS scientific studies have proved that the reduction of vehicular traffic in environmentally sensitive areas aid in mitigation efforts. Pretty much common sense aside from any one of millions of studies you could Google or find at the Library ... How is this even an argument ... ?!?!?!?


I'm saying in that particular area. Where's the data saying it hurts that exact area. Relax big guy, I'm just saying boats aren't doing any harm there, the currents are ten fold of what a boat does. Should have made it a no wake zone, idle only. then there's no argument whatsoever. You could say the whole bay system within a certain amount of yards off a shoreline is a environmentally sensitive area. Then what, it's a fine line is all I'm saying......is there an easement on the shoreline there that is public property out to the beach or is all that public? Are people trespassing by walking to the beach? I allready stated I'm good with it the way it is, either way I'm not going past the sign. Obviously others have a problem with it


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## KDubBlast

timberhunter said:


> I'm saying in that particular area. Where's the data saying it hurts that exact area. Relax big guy, I'm just saying boats aren't doing any harm there, the currents are ten fold of what a boat does. Should have made it a no wake zone, idle only. then there's no argument whatsoever. You could say the whole bay system within a certain amount of yards off a shoreline is a environmentally sensitive area. Then what, it's a fine line is all I'm saying......is there an easement on the shoreline there that is public property out to the beach or is all that public? Are people trespassing by walking to the beach? I allready stated I'm good with it the way it is, either way I'm not going past the sign. Obviously others have a problem with it


Its science bro.


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## southpaw

fritz423 said:


> I can see the judge now:
> 
> "Let's see, the defendent was caught slowly driving his boat on an area that was designed to allow water to pass from the ocean to the bays? Okay, so what was the crime again?


Here's your answer courtesy of Eliteboatstorage



> TPWD code 66.204 sec. a & b dictate the Fish Pass regulations. It is a class C parks and wildlife misdemeanor, fine range $25 to $500 plus Court Cost.





mesquitecountry said:


> For arguments sake, let's keep the math simple. Let's say 10 boats a day pass the sign, there is zero chance that the few people passing it will erode it.


Not true. It's not a zero percent chance. I don't know what the exact percentage would be bc it's probably not possible to quantify it with all the different variables, but it's not zero. May be minute, but it's not zero. This is just semantics and I won't argue semantics especially on something that again probably can't be measured empirically.



> The current rolling through there is 10000x stronger than 10 propellers or wake.


Also not true. The current energy is not 10000X stronger than 10 propellers or wakes, unless that current is really really ripping through there, and I mean really ripping through there, as in unnaturally fast.

The key thing to think of here though is not which one is stronger it's actually at which direction is the energy acting. Current flows through the pass in a parallel direction to the edges of the pass so the energy acts in that direction. I think we can all probably agree on that. The energy from a boat wake from a boat moving through the pass is going to act in a direction more perpendicular to the bank. Sure there's a vector that acts parallel to the bank, but being that boat wakes physically don't exceed about 20 degrees from the centerline of the boat, the majority of the energy is propagating perpendicular to the bank. So, with all that said, the mechanics of erosion from current and boat wakes will be different. Not to mention wave energy propagates differently than current.

If I had to make a guess. Boat wakes loosen up sediment that isn't getting loosened up from current alone (due to directionality and possibly impulse loading from the wave) and then the current sweeps it away.



> Also, if this were true the area before the sign would silt up quickly. Which invalidates this claim.


I'm no expert on this, but I would imagine they're trying to protect a strategic area. Where do passes always silt in from? The mouth. I assume this is the most sensitive area to erosion so I imagine this is the area they're trying to protect.


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## mesquitecountry

You think Mother Nature is worried about a 25 foot, 2500 pound boat? Nah, nope, no chance. She's going to do what she does. 

You picked on the hypothetical numbers, as I'm no scientist, but my point is still valid. 

Maybe it's .10% issue the boats cause, but Mother Nature rules 99.9% and is thousands of times more powerful.

If you see the recent aerial pics Mother Nature is already reforming the mouth. I would like to see new pics on what's happening with the corner around the vinsons cut portion. Erosion is changing that area quickly. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## southpaw

timberhunter said:


> I'm saying in that particular area. Where's the data saying it hurts that exact area. Relax big guy, I'm just saying boats aren't doing any harm there, the currents are ten fold of what a boat does.


See my response above



> Should have made it a no wake zone, idle only. then there's no argument whatsoever. You could say the whole bay system within a certain amount of yards off a shoreline is a environmentally sensitive area.


A fish pass and a shoreline are not the same in terms of environmental sensitivity. Sure a shoreline harbors marine life and is environmentally sensitive in the sense that a fish pass is. Fish and other marine life do not use shorelines as migration routes. I won't go into detail but if you want to learn more go to the following link, download the (free) article and read up on how fish and crustaceans use fish passes

https://repositories.lib.utexas.edu/handle/2152/22167



> Then what, it's a fine line is all I'm saying......is there an easement on the shoreline there that is public property out to the beach or is all that public? Are people trespassing by walking to the beach? I allready stated I'm good with it the way it is, either way I'm not going past the sign. Obviously others have a problem with it


I totally understand your thoughts here. It's a fine line. The last thing I would want is for WPP to try and use this as precedent to try and privatize a flat.


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## cruss

*cb*

the pass is too small of an area to have boats running through it. If I'm wading in or near the mouth or the surf the last thing i would want is boats running through this area. The shorelies along st. joes are bad enough but cedar bayou would be scary not to mention all the other reasons mentioned earlier.


----------



## southpaw

mesquitecountry said:


> You think Mother Nature is worried about a 25 foot, 2500 pound boat? Nah, nope, no chance. She's going to do what she does.
> 
> You picked on the hypothetical numbers, as I'm no scientist, but my point is still valid.


I think you kinda missed the point of my post. I actually said I wouldn't argue semantics. Again, you may be underestimating the amount of damage a boat can do due to the difference in the ways current and boat wakes act on the pass. I won't try and quantify how much damage is being done, all I'm saying is it could be more than you think.



> Maybe it's .10% issue the boats cause, but Mother Nature rules 99.9% and is thousands of times more powerful.
> 
> If you see the recent aerial pics Mother Nature is already reforming the mouth. I would like to see new pics on what's happening with the corner around the vinsons cut portion. Erosion is changing that area quickly.


Mother nature will do what she wants to do unless humans start to interfere. Look at all the natural fish passes that used to exist in TX. They stayed open naturally until the ICW was dredged or in the case of CB, we came along and filled it in.

You're right, the mouth of CB is changing, but apparently it's changing in the exact way that the engineers who designed it expected it to. These same people also seemed to not want boats running through there and probably for good reason.


----------



## Rubberback

I would abide by what the people want you to do that opened it up. Or go tell them you wanna run your boat through it & next time it closes up you will pay to reopen it.
Why not just obey the rules & maybe, just maybe they will open more passes. Just a thought.


----------



## Porky

Put the chain(and or cable) back !
Adult behavior is Politically Incorrect these days.


----------



## Chuckybrown

Gentlemen:

Stop trying to teach the pig to sing. It wastes your time, and annoys the pig.....


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## bigfishtx

My bet is the violators are the same guys that blow holes in the grass at estes, same ones that cut right down your drift. These guys only care about themselves. Do whatever you want, be in at noon, and hang around the bar all afternoon drinking beer and bragging about the limits of fish your customers caught.


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## Z

I was there on friday morning 7-9am...lots of boats parked right by the sign, not a single one past it....except some TXPWD guys putting up a new sign 

Had a blast fishing the surf. Had 2 keeper trout and a BIG red break off. 

Kelsey and I forgot to pack our neoprene socks and got rubbed raw by the wading boots. No vibrio for either of us...yet.


----------



## Net N Yahoo

Anyone been out lately? How is the water flowing?


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## Im Headed South

On like donkey kong out there and words is out about it lol, buddy did a drive by out there this morning and counted 27 boats beached at the sign and waders as far as you could see toward the mouth. Takes longer to walk to the mouth than it does to catch your limit once you get there, 27 less boats running down the shoreline so it's all good.


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## mesquitecountry

any flyovers over cedar lately? How does it look?


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## Oyster Dog

This flyover occurred on Aug 24:


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## jomo888

*Beautiful*

Can't believe how beautiful this is....makes tears big time....thanks to all who made this fly-over...God bless...


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## lurker

Net N Yahoo said:


> Check out this flyover from the 14th of June.


2 months before the above vid


----------



## AlwaysWorkin

Tide looked really high in the 2nd vid. Murky water too


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## EliteBoatStorage

Very Nice. Thank you! Headed down this weekend, it may be chill out time with the North wind blowing. Don't miss the Sunrise! God only gives us so Many :*)​


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## mesquitecountry

Oyster Dog said:


> This flyover occurred on Aug 24:


awesome, thanks!

The mouth has changed quite a bit since it was opened in one years time.


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## bigfishtx

mesquitecountry said:


> awesome, thanks!
> 
> The mouth has changed quite a bit since it was opened in one years time.


It is definitely shifting. I hope is does not close up again.


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## Taylor1981

Made a Saturday morning run out there labor day weekend. Surf was dirty, nobody was catching much of anything at the mouth. If it's like that I'd recommend staying deeper in the cut where the current keeps the water a little cleaner, saw a few ppl there catching a few but still not killing them. The weather this week will probably make the bayou similar to last weekend. Good luck to ya.

The cut does seem to be shifting some, in the past few weeks alone I've made a few trips out there and it's been a little different almost every time. Vinson slough isn't lookin good, seems to be filling in.


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## Smackdaddy53

Cedar Bayou is has sanded in after all this high tide and rough surf.


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## Smackdaddy53

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## FishAfrica

Anybody been down there since this big rain and high tides? Planning a trip there Thursday and Friday.
Thanks


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## FishAfrica

Wow, those pics don't look good.


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## justletmein

Whelp, I guess that was fun while it lasted.


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## Flapp'n Shad

Wow! i don't think the state wil pay to open it again.I'm sure this question has been asked,but i'll ask again.....why didn't they put some kind of jetty rocks to help it fight off from being silted in again?


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## KDubBlast

No freaking way.


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## barronj

Smackdaddy gets all of the people some of time, and some of the people all of the time.

That's probably the northern shore of Zephyr Cove.


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## Flapp'n Shad

barronj said:


> Smackdaddy gets all of the people some of time, and some of the people all of the time.
> 
> That's probably the northern shore of Zephyr Cove.


Lets hope so.


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## FishAfrica

I hope so too, was a cool place to visit


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## Im Headed South

Unfortunately the pics do appear to be accurate, Engineers have been notified other than that not much to add until we hear back from them, we had a field trip out there planned for this week before this came up btw. As far as the jetty comment, using Packery as a cost baseline since it isn't that old the cost estimate to jetty CB/VS the distance it would have to done would be north of 100 million. Took 2 years and 20% of private funding to find less than 10 million to do the project within the plan and requirements from the feds. Even if you found the money the Feds would have never issued the permit for a jetty project for several reasons. Let all the "I told you so" Monday morning engineers chime in now, not like I haven't been hearing that since those pics hit the Internet several hours ago.


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## Flapp'n Shad

Im Headed South said:


> Unfortunately the pics do appear to be accurate, Engineers have been notified other than that not much to add until we hear back from them, we had a field trip out there planned for this week before this came up btw. As far as the jetty comment, using Packery as a cost baseline since it isn't that old the cost estimate to jetty CB/VS the distance it would have to done would be north of 100 million. Took 2 years and 20% of private funding to find less than 10 million to do the project within the plan and requirements from the feds. Even if you found the money the Feds would have never issued the permit for a jetty project for several reasons. Let all the "I told you so" Monday morning engineers chime in now, not like I haven't been hearing that since those pics hit the Internet several hours ago.


I don't know ***** from shinola about the engineering business i figured some kind of jetty system would of helped some,but i can see the the cost boing a issue plus all the red tape.


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## lurker

So, it was open for 13months?

Looks like 9/25/14 was the opening date based on this thread.


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## gray gost

I want to see picture of the world famous sign sitting by dry sand!


----------



## Redfish Rick

This is really bad timing for the flounder run and fall bait migration. There were already a bunch of big flounder staging near the bayou, and all the crabs and shrimp that cannot complete their life-cycle now. 

Men with shovels!!!!


----------



## SoberBrent

Dang I lost that bet! I gave it a year and a half. My boss said 12 months.


----------



## SolarScreenGuy

Sadly, the original specs detailed in the permit request that was made by Save Cedar Bayou Inc. were scrapped. Depth and width were requested as much more than the final permit awarded. This is a fund raising bonanza for you know who. 
Sometimes, true motives are hidden in the details.

www.solarscreenguys.com


----------



## Rubberback

A good cain would of helped. More passes are the key. Hope they leave roll over opened.


----------



## Its Catchy

I don't know if he is yanking our chain or not but I would not be surprised if the pics are real. It took the San Bernard about the same amount of time to close up after dredging.

probably need to build jetties to keep these passes open


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## Sgrem

In my opinion the old Copano Bay bridge would be perfect jetty material. Chunk it up and haul it over there....How much is the demolition and scrap and haul away of the old bridge going to cost anyway?

Men with shovels!! How can we organize an effort? Im happy to fill my boat with folks and shovels and go at least get a trickle going again. Hope mother nature does the rest.

If we are able to organize a shovel effort we should expect to need to repeat the process so organize and lets get er done. These flounder and crabs need this now.


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## daniel7930

Will a jetty being in place keep the mouth of CB from moving north south. Cause if not Then I don't think that would work


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## duckmania

Dang it, just when we were starting to see some real benefit from it being open.


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## goosekillr

After seeing the depth at mouth and the way it was opened it lasted longer than I thought it would. Sad to see the hard work of so many wasted. It is a project that is well worth trying to find a fix for.


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## Smackdaddy53

I would not BS about this guys. I was really looking forward to exploring more from Panther to Goose Island. 
Sgrem, you stole my idea about using the Copano causeway but that idea has been shot down due to the concrete containing asbestos. Too late now anyway!


----------



## Im Headed South

Copano bridge material tested positive for hazardous materials, no way feds would let you place in the home of 3 endangered species. Pics are real, heard the huge tides fell out big time so not sure what to think but boots will be on the ground tomorrow. A little bit of jetty material will get you what's just south of CB at Fish Pass.


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## barronj

SMDH

That blows.

I've had blisters and soreness from things that would pale in comparison to helping re-open a pass... This will not be a #shovelcedarbayou solution, it will require grass roots, legitimate boots on the ground, get there, be there, get dirty effort. Not sure shovels alone could get it done. If they could, well, it's cooler out, and we have a sh!t ton of inmates idling on the tax payer dime. Outside of the mosquitoes, they would probably petition the Governor to let them get out there and get after it.


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## Brandon1107

Heartbreaking....


----------



## Flat's Hunter

Hmm....... 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


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## Redfish Rick

First off, we need to see the full extent of the closure, that will happen tomorrow, and I will be out there sometime mid-morning. If the bayou is truly closed off, we have an emergency on our hands, and this should be treated by the state and other entities as an EMERGENCY. In my mind this should be treated no different than an oil spill or other similar disaster.

The flounder run will start within the next 2 weeks, and the annual bait migration out of the bays is already underway. The amount of biomass and ecosystem at stake is enormous. This is the key time of the year where almost every species in the bays moves in and out of our passes, most notably the shrimp and larval crabs. Flounder and redfish are also on the move now, and Cedar Bayou is integral to maintaining populations these species in the mid-coast area.

I must stress that time is of the essence here, and even opening up a small flowing channel will help. Even if it is a temporary fix, before larger dredging equipment can be brought in, it is still worth it. This has the potential to impact our bays much worse than any oil spill event. When we have a oil spill event, just like the one on Matagorda island shortly before the opening of cedar bayou, there is a rapid repose with lots of men and machinery to correct the problem quickly. Men and machinery need to be mobilized NOW, as this is a true emergency.

Depending on the severity of the closure, we have several options. If the distance from the gulf to the bayou is 300 yards or less, we have a good chance of restoring some flow in a short period of time. It doesn't take much to get the flow going again, and even something as wide as a bar ditch would scour out very quickly with tide movement. You would be amazed at how much you can dig out in 1 day with a couple of backhoes and skid-steer loaders to transport the material back to the dune line.

Another option is to get Aransas county onboard, mobilizing Dump trucks, excavators, and ditch maintenance equipment to quickly restore flow. They could utilize the Bass Cattle Co. ferry to the island and then drive down the beach to the site. Or a small barge could be pulled into Cedar bayou itself to transport machinery. If Judge Mills has any guts, he would have equipment moving that way tomorrow.

Grassroots options include smaller deck barges (like the ones currently in place at the "Reserve" dredging project) to get skid-steer loaders and tractors/backhoes to the site via the bayou. The main issue is removing the material far away from the channel to a suitable placement area, thus some heavy equipment would be needed. Enough volunteers with shovels and wheelbarrows could very easily dig a substantial channel in a few days. 100 men can move a lot of dirt in one day, and with some assistance of heavy machinery, it would go even quicker.

We have a potential ecological disaster on our hands... Who's willing to get off their A S S and help?

Yes, I realize that any quick fix that is done now is only a "bandaid", and may fail to restore flow for any long period of time. There are funds available for "maintenance dredging", but this is a crisis situation, and I doubt anything would happen quickly with all the government red tape involved. Something needs to be done NOW, and not trying is not an option in my mind. We will see exactly how bad it is tomorrow morning (10/28), and go from there. I will report back in the afternoon with any updates...

Capt. Rick Hammond


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## 2thDr

*smackdown*

Pic of surf closing looks about 100 yards wide, with grass on both sides. Should have used a shorter lens to make it look wider, Smack. Wow, you got a bunch of them shorted out, though.


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## Copano/Aransas

Man, that's heartbreaking with all the work and effort that went into opening it. Hope they come up with a solution quick. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Hollon

I would like to see an aerial view of the Cedar Bayou area. I not trusting the four pictures.


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## Smackdaddy53

Hollon said:


> I would like to see an aerial view of the Cedar Bayou area. I not trusting the four pictures.


It's a conspiracy. You got me! :rotfl:


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## bigfishtx

This pass has been opened up a few times now and it always closes right back up, there is just not enough water movement now to keep it open. I am not sure why the engineers expected a different outcome when they keep doing the same thing? 

It will require a set of jetty's and also annual dredging to keep that pass open. (Probably) Really sad, I spent a low of good times there when I was younger.


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## txredfish1007

Ok...So if I were an engineer (which i am NOT) its obvious that if water entering an inlet and then it was diverted in two directions, Naturally the sand and silt from its entry point will have to go somewhere....so you can dredge all you want but until its opened up IN-LINE with the with the entry point I would imagine over time it will silt back in...

Im NO engineer but common sense is common sense


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## MEGABITE

Hollon said:


> I would like to see an aerial view of the Cedar Bayou area. I not trusting the four pictures.


Well then rent a plane/pilot and get after it.


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## lurker

can they directional drill/run a few 48" dia pipes from the surf to mesquite? would this serve the same water transfer purpose with a more permanent result?


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## Smackdaddy53

MEGABITE said:


> Well then rent a plane and get after it.


That's what I'm stressin'!


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## KDubBlast

lurker said:


> can they directional drill/run a few 48" dia pipes from the surf to mesquite? would this serve the same water transfer purpose with a more permanent result?


An HDD would be too expensive I imagine. Could also run into the same issue with the pipes being silted in.


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## Reynolds4

Looks pretty similar to how the Bernard river looked after being opened. Sad to see for sure.


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## barronj

Instead of dumping concrete to make reefs, they should make jetties instead. Restore CB 2.0


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## Smackdaddy53

barronj said:


> Instead of dumping concrete to make reefs, they should make jetties instead. Restore CB 2.0


Should have been part of version 1.0!


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## barronj

No denying that. Now, perhaps, eyes are opened and the "told you so's" get their way on the engineering and design.


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## Trailer Rig

I would guess getting it partially opened before the next Norther & big tidal dump could help sustain it long enough to help the migration.


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## TXPIRATE

Messing with the river systems dumping into the bays and opening passes the were not "natural" will have an effect on the natural passes that have been created over time. I am afraid without constant maintenance Cedar will not stay open. Packery takes a lot of maintenance to keep it open. There is a very large hydro survey that takes place every quarter that is done by Corpus A&M just to stay ahead of the silting. They monitor the beach along with the surf about 1/2 mile on either side of the pass.


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## lurker

KDubBlast said:


> An HDD would be too expensive I imagine. Could also run into the same issue with the pipes being silted in.


i wondered about the silting in of the surf-end, but figured there was some sort of configuration that could keep it clean. HDD or hydrology aren't my specialties by any means.


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## Smackdaddy53

TXPIRATE said:


> Messing with the river systems dumping into the bays and opening passes the were not "natural" will have an effect on the natural passes that have been created over time. I am afraid without constant maintenance Cedar will not stay open. Packery takes a lot of maintenance to keep it open. There is a very large hydro survey that takes place every quarter that is done by Corpus A&M just to stay ahead of the silting. They monitor the beach along with the surf about 1/2 mile on either side of the pass.


Cedar Bayou was natural. Do your research!!! They bulldozed it closed to keep an oil spill from reaching the bay.


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## TeamJefe

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Cedar Bayou was natural. Do your research!!! They bulldozed it closed to keep an oil spill from reaching the bay.


What he is getting at the dam systems on rivers and the super deep ICW channels have changed how water flows out of bay systems. There is not enough flow to keep the pass open like there was before the Ixtoc spill.


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## justletmein

So this is what happens when a boat goes past the "no boats" sign?


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## TXPIRATE

I know it was natural never deep though. Water flow is different now than even 30 years ago. killin me


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## [email protected]

Smack - True enough CB was originally a natural pass, but with a rather checkered past. 

True also that CB lasted a lot longer than many of its kinfolk elsewhere along the coast. 

Littoral drift is the force at work, movement of silt and sand transported by currents that run along the Gulf beach. CB's earliest documented closure occurred (naturally) in 1913 and was blasted open again by a powerful hurricane in 1915. The earliest restoration (dredging) effort was made in 1935 by the predecessor of today's TPWD. It has been dredged several times (latest of course was in 2014) and closed on its own several times. The 1979 closure to "supposedly" prevent oil from the infamous Ixtoc blowout from entering the Aransas/SAB system was the only time man closed it. 

Seeing it closed again so soon is a major disappointment. I'm sure everybody was hoping it would flow a lot longer before requiring maintenance dredging.


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## Smackdaddy53

[email protected] said:


> Smack - True enough CB was originally a natural pass, but with a rather checkered past.
> 
> True also that CB lasted a lot longer than many of its kinfolk elsewhere along the coast.
> 
> Littoral drift is the force at work, movement of silt and sand transported by currents that run along the Gulf beach. CB's earliest documented closure occurred (naturally) in 1913 and was blasted open again by a powerful hurricane in 1915. The earliest restoration (dredging) effort was made in 1935 by the predecessor of today's TPWD. It has been dredged several times (latest of course was in 2014) and closed on its own several times. The 1979 closure to "supposedly" prevent oil from the infamous Ixtoc blowout from entering the Aransas/SAB system was the only time man closed it.
> 
> Seeing it closed again so soon is a major disappointment. I'm sure everybody was hoping it would flow a lot longer before requiring maintenance dredging.


Good to know, I didn't research enough either. Either way, I think lots of us saw great things after it opened, some credit may be given to Spring rains and 5 trout limits but we no doubt had more tide movement in that area.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

TeamJefe said:


> What he is getting at the dam systems on rivers and the super deep ICW channels have changed how water flows out of bay systems. There is not enough flow to keep the pass open like there was before the Ixtoc spill.


Got it, I agree but it is what it is.


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## TrueblueTexican

*Hate to say*

http://texascoastgeology.com/passes/cedarbayou.html

I told you so -

Dr Watson was 100% correct , even on the length it would likely stay open.

I have fished CB since I was 4 yrs old in 1959 and regularly many years since. When Matagorda ship channel and Aransas Pass were built, they were both less than 50' deep. At that time Cedar Bayou was 100 yards wide and over your head most times. Pass Cavallo was 300 YARDS wide in 50-70' deep.

Today Matagorda ship channel has scoured out to almost 100' deep in places and huge volumes of water pass thru quickly, its scoured so deep the south wall is still in danger of collapse. Aransas Pass has similar scouring action but not as deep, in addition Packery was opened up.

ALL of the minor passes will eventually sand in due to the ship channels because the hydrology is just not there to keep them open anymore(excepting hurricanes)

I hate to see Cedar Bayou go away - and likely also Pass Cavallo and Port Mansfield cut --- loss of water exchange thru there has certainly hurt Mesquite and SAB to an extent. I think you can plan for maintenance dredging Cedar Bayou about every 12 mos. If its to be kept open -

Most coastal hydrology experts expected reclosure - hope Judge Mills can find some deep pockets --


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## Its Catchy

One of the main causes is the ICW. Prior to its dredging, water from rain events like we just had would flow downhill towards the gulf following the path of least resistance. This natural flow would keep many of the passes open. Much of the natural runoff now flows downhill until it hits the ICW and is diverted laterally to the deeper dredged channels and then out.

The San Bernard is a perfect example. Water flows down takes a left or right in the ICW and exits out either the Brazos or the cut at Sergeant. The mouth is starved for flow and eventually closes.


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## Im Headed South

Well eyes out there right now are telling me the mouth is open and flowing , some huge changes for sure since the super high tide and drop. There are guys out there today that were also there yesterday and they said there was always flow going through so not sure where the pics were taken exactly at the bayou. The mouth is deep enough to get water in your waders, just inside of the mouth sanded in and moved south quite a bit but there is still flow over the area. I'll know more once they're in cell range later including some pictures.


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## cwbycrshr

Im Headed South said:


> Well eyes out there right now are telling me the mouth is open and flowing , some huge changes for sure since the super high tide and drop. There are guys out there today that were also there yesterday and they said there was always flow going through so not sure where the pics were taken exactly at the bayou. The mouth is deep enough to get water in your waders, just inside of the mouth sanded in and moved south quite a bit but there is still flow over the area. I'll know more once they're in cell range later including some pictures.


Did I miss November through March and we are back at April 1st?


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## lurker

Im Headed South said:


> Well eyes out there right now are telling me the mouth is open and flowing , some huge changes for sure since the super high tide and drop.


if it survived the week(?) of higher tides well enough to still have any flow, "the drop" should carve it out nicely, no?


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## Im Headed South

That's what the engineers keep telling us but when you get reports like yesterday it shakes your confidence to say the least. The huge tides I'm sure washed sand off all sides down into the bottom of the guts that have been cut over time and the tides will take time to clean the guts out but the hydraulic models say they will so I guess we'll see.


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## barronj

I still vote for a chain gang of convicts out there w/ shovels and buckets


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## Smackdaddy53

I guess those guides reported it closed up to deter prople from going out there. Good to know it was a sham.


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## Oyster Dog

Smackdaddy53 said:


> I guess those guides reported it closed up to deter prople from going out there. Good to know it was a sham.


More proof that guides are loudmouth jerks.


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## Flapp'n Shad

Im Headed South said:


> Well eyes out there right now are telling me the mouth is open and flowing , some huge changes for sure since the super high tide and drop. There are guys out there today that were also there yesterday and they said there was always flow going through so not sure where the pics were taken exactly at the bayou. The mouth is deep enough to get water in your waders, just inside of the mouth sanded in and moved south quite a bit but there is still flow over the area. I'll know more once they're in cell range later including some pictures.


 Yea i was just there few days ago and it was open.I figured those pictures were fake.Someone was just trying to stir the pot I figure.


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## bigfishtx

Smackdaddy53 said:


> I guess those guides reported it closed up to deter prople from going out there. Good to know it was a sham.


Didn't you post the pics? Where did you get them?


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## Flapp'n Shad

Smackdaddy53 said:


> I would not BS about this guys.!


hwell:


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## [email protected]

IHS - I think everybody will be greatly relieved to learn the true status of CB from the crew out there today surveying the situation. Please post up soon as you can.


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## bigfishtx

Ban Smackdaddy


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## Smackdaddy53

Don't shoot the messenger. I thought it was a real report.


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## Smackdaddy53

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Coastal_RedRaider

Thats great to know! Now i feel like a fool for texting all my buddies that it was closed! :headknock:rotfl:


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## Rubberback

Glad to hear its still flowing. Smack make sure your source is reliable before you post. There was a ton of money plus lots of man hours to complete this task.


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## chicapesca

Im Headed South said:


> Well eyes out there right now are telling me the mouth is open and flowing , some huge changes for sure since the super high tide and drop. There are guys out there today that were also there yesterday and they said there was always flow going through so not sure where the pics were taken exactly at the bayou. The mouth is deep enough to get water in your waders, just inside of the mouth sanded in and moved south quite a bit but there is still flow over the area. I'll know more once they're in cell range later including some pictures.


Thank you IHS. I was wondering of the validity of the pictures when I saw them yesterday. (Not from Smackdaddy)


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## barronj

Coastal_RedRaider said:


> Thats great to know! Now i feel like a fool for texting all my buddies that it was closed! :headknock:rotfl:


You can blame the media for teaching you that it's best to be first with the news, accuracy can wait.


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## KDubBlast

Coastal_RedRaider said:


> Thats great to know! Now i feel like a fool for texting all my buddies that it was closed! :headknock:rotfl:


Yea no kidding lol


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## Sgrem

I was ready to load the boat with shovel and wheelbarrow. I know we could have helped with the tides and proper timing.


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## BATWING

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Don't shoot the messenger. I thought it was a real report.


LMAO!!! :headknock:rotfl::bounce:


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## TrueblueTexican

*Aw Shucks*

And I thought we would have it all to ourselves this weekend !!:rotfl:


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## fattyflattie

No, for real though. 

It's closed. And heard there's a great bite in Galveston. Nothing but sharks, rays, and vibrio down at CB.


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## SSST

When i first saw Smack's post, i thought to myself that doesn't look like it could possibly be Cedar Bayou. I almost texted him and asked if he was just trying to stir the pot, then i saw the next few posts and figured i better not say anything and look stupid. So glad to hear there is water still flowing, i think the fishing really picked up in the last year in that area.


----------



## bigfishtx

Smackers gave me a reddie, guess that proves he dish it out but can't take it. Next time you post something like this you really should verify first


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## FREON

bigfishtx said:


> Smackers gave me a reddie, guess that proves he dish it out but can't take it. Next time you post something like this you really should verify first


Let me guess....He also called you a jerkoff or a richardhead or some other endearing name! :rotfl:


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## Im Headed South

Here's some of the mouth,


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## Redfish Rick

*The bayou is open*

I arrived at the mouth of Cedar bayou at around 2pm today. The good news is that the bayou is flowing and is connected to the surf at several points. The bad news is that the guts are shallow, only 1 foot max, but flowing HARD. A ton of sand got pushed off the dunes on the North side of the cut, and washed into the bottom of the guts. The deepest area is on the south side of the pass, and is waist to chest deep. Once the water turns to the north, it shallows out to 1 foot or less over a broad 300 yard wide delta, with many smaller guts connecting with the bayou and vinsons slough. The majority of the water was flowing into vinsons, with only a smaller 80 yard wide gut running into cedar bayou.

I expect that with normal tide movement, these guts will scour out deeper in the coming weeks. There was already good evidence of this, as new "cut banks" were forming near the high flow areas. The water at the Northern no boat sign was moving very swift, and was boiling past the boat where we beached. Lots of baitfish moving through the pass.

At this point, not much can be done and mother nature is going to have to scour out the cut itself. The timeline for maintenance dredging may need to be accelerated, as this "near closure" was caused by a very freak event of high tides and battering east winds.

I took plenty of pictures, see below:

Capt. Rick Hammond


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## Redfish Rick

*more pics*

Capt. Rick Hammond


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## Im Headed South

Some of where VS turns and goes out toward the gulf, the connection of VS to the mouth has never looked better for what it's worth. The 2nd pics is the west shoreline of CB where it heads toward the mouth.


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## Sgrem

well....this is kind of a wake up call of what can be and what we may want to be prepared for.

I think IHS and RR are like two of the closest to this for involvement (at least outwardly that we can see - IM SURE THERE ARE OTHERS even more involved).

So QUESTION for you guys. If there was a threat of this again what is the legality of mobilizing the ******* work gang for us to come down and help with shovels and wheelbarrows?

I know this was knee jerk reaction for a bunch of us. But i have no doubt with very little warning many would drop what they were doing and head down to move wheelbarrows and buckets full of CB sand and keep that gut moving water through. Maybe a different thread for discussion and a sign up....


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## Redfish Rick

I agree, the connection with vinsons was the best I have seen it since the dredging. Water was swiftly flowing through there, and I stopped and turned around after getting up to my neck and having to swim, right where the surf gut turns left into vinsons. The guts heading north towards cedar bayou along the far West bank were the deepest, but I couldn't really find many areas that were over knee deep. 

Capt. Rick Hammond


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## Im Headed South

A few of where CB heads toward the gulf, there's a deeper gut on the far right side of the pics (that's the area in the previous post) where there is pretty good flow headed out toward the mouth and several shallower guts working their way open across toward the mouth. The last pic is for anyone that has been out there and seen that telephone pole up in the dunes, that gives you a idea of how much sand was moved around by mother nature in a week with the above normal tides.


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## Sgrem

Holy moly used to be able to almost duck and walk under that pole...


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## Im Headed South

Pretty good view here, although the scale can be a bit deceiving. This was today btw.


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## FishAfrica

Thats a sight for sore eyes! Looking forward to going back down there. Thanks for all the pics


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## Flapp'n Shad

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Don't shoot the messenger. I thought it was a real report.


Can we shoot the messanger just for good measure?


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## RubiconAg

Unfortunately I think its conceivable that with the rapid fall of the super high tides combined with a full moon and a low tide cycle, the first pictures might have some merit. With the amount of sand that moved in, it just couldn't flush itself fast enough before the water fell below the newly deposited sand. Whats worse is that CB clearly didn't get to take advantage of the "blowout" of the super tides we had, just unfortunate. Hopefully it can recover itself from this event and find a good channel again. This will be a true test going into the winter months on the survivability of the project (and yes, I understand that there is a fund set up to dredge, just hope its large enough). Just my .02 as an architect, not engineer, only on weekends...

I'm a full believer in CB being opened again, this spring was great (after the rains) in Aransas Bay. Hopefully it rebounds. 

Lastly, IHS, what your doing and the work you have put into this project is truly amazing. Thank you from me, my family and my son who is just 2 yrs old; your effort will hopefully live on so he can still enjoy a great fishery.


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## Im Headed South

The pictures of the a "closed" CB appear to have been taken in the far northeast corner, the top and far right if looking at the last aerial and that was closed off I'm sure as you can see in the pictures but the channel has migrated to the south from there for months as expected. The deepest gut from CB to the mouth is on the far west side and was probably never closed judging from the depth and the there is zero chance the mouth was ever closed as it's deep and ripping with current, if you look close at one of the "closed" pics you can see the deeper gut leading out to the mouth in the background. The models say CB will scourer out the guts to keep flow between it and the mouth as it continues to migrate to the south, as it does so the connection between VS will look better and the CB connection will look good at times and not so good at times depending on the tides. The Engineer has told us this in our conversations and he probably just shook his head when he saw the aerials showing exactly what he's been telling us for over a year now, the hydrology models have been remarkably accurate so far.


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## Smackdaddy53

Judging from these photos I bet two days ago Cedar Bayou was sanded in. I don't recall posting anything about Vinson Slough you smartasses. We had a real low tide then after the front combined with the full moon and the bottom dropped out almost 4 feet in some areas. There's always those few special ones waiting to crucify me on here! 
I'm glad it is still flowing, we need that influx.


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## Rubberback

I know where I'd be fishing.


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## blackjack runner

*CB*

Thanks for the pics and the updates. It is appreciated. Like Headin South Pics showed, there must have been a lot of recent movement. The pole in the third pic was stuck up in the dune and was hanging about 2 - 3 ft over waterline. 
Glad it is flowing as we enjoyed it through the summer, and looking forward to multiple returns, God Willing.


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## barronj

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Judging from these photos I bet two days ago Cedar Bayou was sanded in. I don't recall posting anything about Vinson Slough you smartasses. We had a real low tide then after the front combined with the full moon and the bottom dropped out almost 4 feet in some areas. There's always those few special ones waiting to crucify me on here!
> I'm glad it is still flowing, we need that influx.


The silver lining is that a budding corps of volunteers emerged, shovels and buckets were being loaded in to boats, a promise of what could be mobilized.


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## TXPIRATE

In one of heading souths posts I saw a Bellaire Environmental boat. I am sure they are reporting back to the decision makers. Smack, the tide did not drop much in lamar at the time of the pics so I would say cedar would have the same tide.


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## JoshJ

Im Headed South said:


> Pretty good view here, although the scale can be a bit deceiving. This was today btw.


I flew over Tuesday at 12:00 and it looked just like these pictures. My pictures didn't turn out as good as these so I didn't post them


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## Im Headed South

JoshJ said:


> I flew over Tuesday at 12:00 and it looked just like these pictures. My pictures didn't turn out as good as these so I didn't post them


Anytime you need someone to snap some pics while you fly just let me know, I know someone . Wish we could have seen it last week during that high tide, judging from waterline on both sides of the dune line it had to be a impressive site.


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## RubiconAg

Im Headed South said:


> Anytime you need someone to snap some pics while you fly just let me know, I know someone . Wish we could have seen it last week during that high tide, judging from waterline on both sides of the dune line it had to be a impressive site.


This would have been awesome to see...as wide as the channel..


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## chad

My two boys are going to be upset about the piling sticking out of the sand dune.... that was their diving board!


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## LouieB

Flapp'n Shad said:


> Can we shoot the messanger just for good measure?


I'm a horrible shot. But I'll keep the guns reloaded for you till you're done.:wink:


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## Flapp'n Shad

Wonder if the feds/state are going to do anything to keep it open/silting in?


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## JoshJ

Im Headed South said:


> Anytime you need someone to snap some pics while you fly just let me know, I know someone . Wish we could have seen it last week during that high tide, judging from waterline on both sides of the dune line it had to be a impressive site.


Will do.


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## Redfish Rick

*Another high tide event underway*

We need to watch the status of the bayou really close in the next few days. Anther moderate coastal flooding event is underway tonight, as tides have rose 1 1/2 feet in the last few hours. As of 4am, the boat ramp at goose island is nearly underwater, the same thing that happened late last week. While I was running my 2 gigging trips tonight, we watched the water rise 2 feet in 8 hours. Winds right now are SE at 25 with higher gusts, and the tide is still rushing in. This is probably already causing flooding in the dunes and beach erosion. Strong winds from the SE are forecasted through Saturday morning, hopefully the bayou can withstand this 1-2 punch....

Capt. Rick Hammond


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## Copano/Aransas

Redfish Rick said:


> We need to watch the status of the bayou really close in the next few days. Anther moderate coastal flooding event is underway tonight, as tides have rose 1 1/2 feet in the last few hours. As of 4am, the boat ramp at goose island is nearly underwater, the same thing that happened late last week. While I was running my 2 gigging trips tonight, we watched the water rise 2 feet in 8 hours. Winds right now are SE at 25 with higher gusts, and the tide is still rushing in. This is probably already causing flooding in the dunes and beach erosion. Strong winds from the SE are forecasted through Saturday morning, hopefully the bayou can withstand this 1-2 punch....
> 
> Capt. Rick Hammond


Not again!! I guess it's a combination of the full moon we just had and the strong SE winds. Hope CB holds up ok.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Im Headed South

It's howling across St Charles right now, had a field trip with the engineers planned for today that we postponed do to the weather. With the wind direction I would think it's probably pulling pretty hard from the bayou and stacking up around the Beldons area. I saw 6 to 7'ers forecasted for the gulf though so not sure what's going to happen. We'll be headed out there in a few days after in calms down to see what's going on.


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## Flat's Hunter

Are events like these why Vincent Slough is needed? . It looks like it has a deep channel open from pictures that would help keep flow to scour the channel during times like this when cedar Bayou closes up some. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


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## Rubberback

Mother nature works both ways.She could open that baby up are close it.


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## unclefudd

*CB Delta*

Well since I am one of the wade fishermen in the pictures here is my take on CB. It is doing the same thing as in the past. The delta on the North-East side is expanding and moving south. It extends well into the GOM. If it continues to expand it will reduce the flow from CB. My hope is that Vinsons will have enough flow to keep the delta from sanding in the outlet. The day before the pictures were taken there was very little flow from CB across the sand plain at low tide.


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## Im Headed South

We walked the whole site yesterday and took depth measurements all over the place, the tide was still very high but the water was flowing out so fast you could hardly walk across the current in most areas. The current has washed a gut out in the northeast corned of where CB meets the beach that we measured at 4.5' deep in the deepest spot as of yesterday which was probably 3' deeper than it was 3 days ago, the mouth it self ran between 3 and 4.5' deep. The areas to the west of the mouth where VS and CB bend around and head toward the mouth were measured at 8'+ in the deepest parts and 4' to 5' in most all other areas. The extremely high tides are washing sand from the edges down into the guts but when those high tides fall out like they were yesterday there is more than enough flow to recut some deeper guts and clean the sand back out. The deeper gut has shifted back to the north side of CB at the sign, the water was 8'+ along the north shore from the sign all the way to the bend in the northeast corner. The Engineer was pleased with what we observed yesterday, lots of current and it's doing it's job, should have plenty of freshwater headed toward the area once again down the G-lupe as well.


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## bigfishtx

Thank you for your report!


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## mesquitecountry

Solid report! Looks like we are still alive and going from the fine folks that went out to give it directly from the horses mouth! Stay open CB!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## duckmania

Good to hear. There is a slug of water moving down the Guadalupe, hopefully it will help.


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## pocjetty

Im Headed South said:


> Pretty good view here, although the scale can be a bit deceiving. This was today btw.


Wow, look at those aerial photos. There are whitecaps on those dunes! Water like that could deposit a lot of sand in a hurry.

It's sort of amazing to me that there was ever enough money to build jetties. Or maybe the amazing thing is that we used to have money to build jetties, but now we don't. We've gone a additional $10 Trillion into debt, give or take, in the last decade. We're obviously spending money on something.


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## Im Headed South

The ecological research being done around the project is being reviewed by agencies all over the US. The lead researcher from A&M CC and Harte is attempting to quantify the amount of positive impact from both the ecological and economic stand point to show just how important natural passes are from both stand points. Armed with good data, agencies will have the fire power they need when trying to get more funding for restoration projects like this which will lead to healthier bays and estuaries. Harte was out in Mesquite last week doing net surveys to check on the Redfish spawn success as their data showed the adult fished used the pass to travel to the gulf when water temperature called for them to leave, their nets were full of fresh Redfish hatch that came back through the pass and results have far exceeded all of their expectations. The ecological improvements are there without a doubt, the economic positives are there as well I'm sure but those numbers are not completed yet but it's not hard to tell by a few observations that things are absolutely better on that front than they were 2 or 3 years ago. The guides and their paying customers are staying and fishing out of Rockport now whereas they were all fishing south of Corpus a few years ago. The Eco tourism industry has taken off in the area as well, know several guides that do a bunch of trips this time of year with folks that only show up with a camera, the things above lead to a positive impact from a economical stand point which gets the attention of politicians.


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## duckmania

Im Headed South said:


> The ecological research being done around the project is being reviewed by agencies all over the US. The lead researcher from A&M CC and Harte is attempting to quantify the amount of positive impact from both the ecological and economic stand point to show just how important natural passes are from both stand points. Armed with good data, agencies will have the fire power they need when trying to get more funding for restoration projects like this which will lead to healthier bays and estuaries. Harte was out in Mesquite last week doing net surveys to check on the Redfish spawn success as their data showed the adult fished used the pass to travel to the gulf when water temperature called for them to leave, their nets were full of fresh Redfish hatch that came back through the pass and results have far exceeded all of their expectations. The ecological improvements are there without a doubt, the economic positives are there as well I'm sure but those numbers are not completed yet but it's not hard to tell by a few observations that things are absolutely better on that front than they were 2 or 3 years ago. The guides and their paying customers are staying and fishing out of Rockport now whereas they were all fishing south of Corpus a few years ago. The Eco tourism industry has taken off in the area as well, know several guides that do a bunch of trips this time of year with folks that only show up with a camera, the things above lead to a positive impact from a economical stand point which gets the attention of politicians.


Thanks for the continued updates
There is no doubt the opening of CB has helped the fishing, and I think it will get better. There is a growing amount of pressure on that area, hopefully the CB opening, reduced limits, and the break in the drought will put us on the right path. Thanks again.


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## Copano/Aransas

Im Headed South said:


> The ecological research being done around the project is being reviewed by agencies all over the US. The lead researcher from A&M CC and Harte is attempting to quantify the amount of positive impact from both the ecological and economic stand point to show just how important natural passes are from both stand points. Armed with good data, agencies will have the fire power they need when trying to get more funding for restoration projects like this which will lead to healthier bays and estuaries. Harte was out in Mesquite last week doing net surveys to check on the Redfish spawn success as their data showed the adult fished used the pass to travel to the gulf when water temperature called for them to leave, their nets were full of fresh Redfish hatch that came back through the pass and results have far exceeded all of their expectations. The ecological improvements are there without a doubt, the economic positives are there as well I'm sure but those numbers are not completed yet but it's not hard to tell by a few observations that things are absolutely better on that front than they were 2 or 3 years ago. The guides and their paying customers are staying and fishing out of Rockport now whereas they were all fishing south of Corpus a few years ago. The Eco tourism industry has taken off in the area as well, know several guides that do a bunch of trips this time of year with folks that only show up with a camera, the things above lead to a positive impact from a economical stand point which gets the attention of politicians.


Thanks for all the updates and info, always enjoy reading them and keeping up with whats going on with Cedar Bayou. If y'all ever need any help with anything feel free to ask, were down there a lot this time of year.


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## SolarScreenGuy

Im Headed South said:


> The ecological research being done around the project is being reviewed by agencies all over the US. The lead researcher from A&M CC and Harte is attempting to quantify the amount of positive impact from both the ecological and economic stand point to show just how important natural passes are from both stand points. Armed with good data, agencies will have the fire power they need when trying to get more funding for restoration projects like this which will lead to healthier bays and estuaries. Harte was out in Mesquite last week doing net surveys to check on the Redfish spawn success as their data showed the adult fished used the pass to travel to the gulf when water temperature called for them to leave, their nets were full of fresh Redfish hatch that came back through the pass and results have far exceeded all of their expectations. The ecological improvements are there without a doubt, the economic positives are there as well I'm sure but those numbers are not completed yet but it's not hard to tell by a few observations that things are absolutely better on that front than they were 2 or 3 years ago. The guides and their paying customers are staying and fishing out of Rockport now whereas they were all fishing south of Corpus a few years ago. The Eco tourism industry has taken off in the area as well, know several guides that do a bunch of trips this time of year with folks that only show up with a camera, the things above lead to a positive impact from a economical stand point which gets the attention of politicians.


Well said! And you have illustrated the importance of Gulf Passes to our entire coastal environment. Most all ( if not all period) of marine species depend upon access to and from the GOM to complete the migratory cycles necessary for their survival. I have never understood the thinking behind those who have advocated closure of these most important Gulf connections. I've said it before and will always maintain that Gulf passes are a good thing always!
Not to hijack and change the topic, but this includes Rollover Pass. Closure would be a mistake. As a youngster, blessed by my father and grandfather, I was fishing passes that most on this board have never even heard of. Those were the days for sure. Even the advent of creel limits and seasonal restrictions we have today have not solved the problem of a diminishing resource. Sure there are more fishermen and women, but back in the '50s and early 60's, the prevailing thought was we had an unlimited resource. I believe we did. But pass after pass closed and we all know the story from that point forward. Keep the passes opened, all of them!

www.solarscreenguys.com

www.solarscreenguys.com


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## mesquitecountry

Great update!


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## JoshJ

Sunday Nov 8 around noon.


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## barronj

wow!


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## TrueblueTexican

*Almost sixties*

That's what it looked like in 1962.


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## Im Headed South

Awesome, thanks for the pics, biologist was out there last week and sent us a text saying he thought that it looked better than it ever has, and also that the Redfish hatch is still coming in like crazy. The tide was ripping out yesterday, probably dropped 6 or 8 " throughout the day. Finally broke out the waders, fishing was great around shell with moving water around or over the reefs , nearly had the bay to myself yesterday. I love deer season lol.


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## duckmania

That huge slug of water coming down Guadalupe the last few days may have got sucked out on that falling tide helping cb. Hope so. 
Thanks for he updates ihs.


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## mesquitecountry

those photos are insane! huge difference!!


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## Rolls

SolarScreenGuy said:


> Well said! And you have illustrated the importance of Gulf Passes to our entire coastal environment. Most all ( if not all period) of marine species depend upon access to and from the GOM to complete the migratory cycles necessary for their survival. I have never understood the thinking behind those who have advocated closure of these most important Gulf connections. I've said it before and will always maintain that Gulf passes are a good thing always!
> Not to hijack and change the topic, but this includes Rollover Pass. Closure would be a mistake. As a youngster, blessed by my father and grandfather, I was fishing passes that most on this board have never even heard of. Those were the days for sure. Even the advent of creel limits and seasonal restrictions we have today have not solved the problem of a diminishing resource. Sure there are more fishermen and women, but back in the '50s and early 60's, the prevailing thought was we had an unlimited resource. I believe we did. But pass after pass closed and we all know the story from that point forward. Keep the passes opened, all of them!
> 
> www.solarscreenguys.com
> 
> www.solarscreenguys.com


 Don't put words in his mouth. He said "show just how important _natural_ passes are"


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## SolarScreenGuy

Rolls said:


> Don't put words in his mouth. He said "show just how important _natural_ passes are"


Does anyone dispute the importance of natural passes? Would you dispute the importance of man made passes such as East Cut, Port Aransas Channel, The Channel at Port O'Connor, Galveston Ship Channel ?

www.solarscreenguys.com


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## anzuelo

The Port Aransas Channel is a natural pass that was stabilized by putting in the jetties. 

The natural pass, Aransas Pass, moved south by a half mile or so from the time the lighthouse was built until they first put in the jetty.


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## Rolls

SolarScreenGuy said:


> Does anyone dispute the importance of natural passes? Would you dispute the importance of man made passes such as East Cut, Port Aransas Channel, The Channel at Port O'Connor, Galveston Ship Channel ?
> 
> www.solarscreenguys.com


 I don't know of anyone that would dispute the importance of natural passes. As far a man made passes go though well that's a whole different story. Just my .02 and I'll leave it at that.


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## SolarScreenGuy

Rolls said:


> I don't know of anyone that would dispute the importance of natural passes. As far a man made passes go though well that's a whole different story. Just my .02 and I'll leave it at that.


Just your .02 and you will leave it at that is a wise decision on your part. Well Done!

www.solarscreenguys.com


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## Rolls

SolarScreenGuy said:


> Just your .02 and you will leave it at that is a wise decision on your part. Well Done!
> 
> www.solarscreenguys.com


 Touche. I'm glad Cedar Bayou is doing good and helping that area get back to how it should be. Maybe one day East Bay will get it's chance.


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## Im Headed South

Lets get back to CB/VS, these were taken today. High tide fell some since the last pics and as it did it cut a new deeper gut directly from CB to the beach. Lots of changes with the higher tides and freshwater inflow from SA Bay, really like the double barrel look.


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## peckerwood

Nice pics. Mr. South.Thanks!


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## pocjetty

Im Headed South said:


> Lets get back to CB/VS, these were taken today. High tide fell some since the last pics and as it did it cut a new deeper gut directly from CB to the beach. Lots of changes with the higher tides and freshwater inflow from SA Bay, really like the double barrel look.


Great photos! Really appreciate that.

I guess a lot of us are nervous about the pass staying open because we want it so much. I hope that the new look will turn out to mean that both CB and VS are capable of holding their own. The story was that the added water velocity from VS would be necessary to keep the mouth open. That can't happen if the two separate, and the middle closes up.

But for now, I'll stay positive and say that the current state of the channel(s) looks really good. Makes me want to be out there fishing.


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## Im Headed South

I don't anyone expects it to stay separated like it is currently, more of a product of the extremely high tides. Just thought it was a cool picture, the whole area is kind of like the weather in Tx........just wait 24hrs.


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## Its Catchy

I hate to be negative. But it does not look like it will make the low winter tides.


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## pocjetty

Im Headed South said:


> I don't anyone expects it to stay separated like it is currently, more of a product of the extremely high tides. Just thought it was a cool picture, the whole area is kind of like the weather in Tx........just wait 24hrs.


We can all speculate as much as we want to, but one thing is undeniable - you post some VERY cool pictures. That one is no exception.

And yeah, they dynamics of a pass like that are totally unpredictable. Nobody saw this change coming. The next one is likely to be just as surprising. I just hope it stays open, even if it's through maintenance dredging. I've got high hopes for what it means to the long-term health of the surrounding bays.


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## Copano/Aransas

Im Headed South said:


> Lets get back to CB/VS, these were taken today. High tide fell some since the last pics and as it did it cut a new deeper gut directly from CB to the beach. Lots of changes with the higher tides and freshwater inflow from SA Bay, really like the double barrel look.


Cool!! Awesome pic's as usual. Be interesting to see what it does this winter. Starting to wonder when the tide is going to start going out, it's a lot higher this year then it was last at this time. Guess we just need some good cold fronts.

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## Fearless

Copano/Aransas said:


> Cool!! Awesome pic's as usual. Be interesting to see what it does this winter. Starting to wonder when the tide is going to start going out, it's a lot higher this year then it was last at this time. Guess we just need some good cold fronts.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Global warming?


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## bigfishtx

That picture looks like Vinson is flowing more water and Cedar may eventually end up dumping into the VS flow. Cedar's flow def looks slower.

Not sure what the engineers thought process is here.


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## Capt. Dually

bigfishtx said:


> That picture looks like Vinson is flowing more water and Cedar may eventually end up dumping into the VS flow. Cedar's flow def looks slower.
> 
> Not sure what the engineers thought process is here.


Their thought process was to guess what Mother Nature will do. Not an easy task.

Stay on 'em. D


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## Im Headed South

bigfishtx said:


> That picture looks like Vinson is flowing more water and Cedar may eventually end up dumping into the VS flow. Cedar's flow def looks slower.
> 
> Not sure what the engineers thought process is here.


Models show that will eventually be the case just as it was before man ever messed with anything out there. History shows the mouth into the gulf moves over time in about a 5000' footprint, there is a high dune line on each end that stops that movement. The mouth it self will migrate to the south to that dune line, once it gets there it will then migrate back toward the north until it gets to the high dune line on the north side which is where the dredge project placed it last year. The movement of the mouth is the reason the pass remained open about 80% of the time on it's own prior to the state closing it in 79, the VS/CB tie in has never been done correctly since then which is why every other dredging was doomed from the start, and it's also exactly why jetty's would not work at the mouth unless you put rock just about all the way to mesquite bay which would cut off VS in the process. Thing to remember is it's a fish pass, for it to it's job doesn't require a 6' or 8' channel a 100 yards wide, as long as the breeders can get out and the hatch can get in then it's working.


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## Im Headed South

Capt. Dually said:


> Their thought process was to guess what Mother Nature will do. Not an easy task.
> 
> Stay on 'em. D


I'm confident with computer models and detailed hydraulic information the engineers have now gives them a much better idea of what's going on out there than folks did 20 or 30 years ago when efforts were made to keep it open. One doesn't have to look no further than one of the dredgings which was back in the 80's I believe in which they put several 1000's yards of dredge material from CB right on the beach in the middle of the foot print of where it wanted to go, the cut stayed open until it moved to that pile and then sanded in. The removal of that huge dredge pile was a major part of the project and the lesson learned from that mistake led to the plan of removing the sand completely from the project area. One outlier in all of this does have to do with mother nature though and that's with a tropical weather event hitting near the area, all bets are off then as depending on where landfall would be could be good or bad with too many variables to predict.


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## DUTY FIRST

Im Headed South said:


> Models show that will eventually be the case just as it was before man ever messed with anything out there. History shows the mouth into the gulf moves over time in about a 5000' footprint, there is a high dune line on each end that stops that movement. The mouth it self will migrate to the south to that dune line, once it gets there it will then migrate back toward the north until it gets to the high dune line on the north side which is where the dredge project placed it last year. The movement of the mouth is the reason the pass remained open about 80% of the time on it's own prior to the state closing it in 79, the VS/CB tie in has never been done correctly since then which is why every other dredging was doomed from the start, and it's also exactly why jetty's would not work at the mouth unless you put rock just about all the way to mesquite bay which would cut off VS in the process. Thing to remember is it's a fish pass, for it to it's job doesn't require a 6' or 8' channel a 100 yards wide, as long as the breeders can get out and the hatch can get in then it's working.


Finally, someone who GETS IT !



Im Headed South said:


> I'm confident with computer models and detailed hydraulic information the engineers have now gives them a much better idea of what's going on out there than folks did 20 or 30 years ago when efforts were made to keep it open. One doesn't have to look no further than one of the dredgings which was back in the 80's I believe in which they put several 1000's yards of dredge material from CB right on the beach in the middle of the foot print of where it wanted to go, the cut stayed open until it moved to that pile and then sanded in. The removal of that huge dredge pile was a major part of the project and the lesson learned from that mistake led to the plan of removing the sand completely from the project area. One outlier in all of this does have to do with mother nature though and that's with a tropical weather event hitting near the area, all bets are off then as depending on where landfall would be could be good or bad with too many variables to predict.


All true EXCEPT, the placement of the spoil back in the 80s was not a MISTAKE. It was done deliberately, for the benefit of Perry Bass, to provide dry land access to all of his property. This is not just conjecture, as written proof was provided in the lawsuit filed by RFA, FTCP, and SCBI. That lawsuit was subsequently withdrawn without prejudice, in order to allow the project to be permitted. The threat of re filing that lawsuit is the reason the powers that be (state and federal agencies) finally went ahead and issued the necessary permits.

This lawsuit, Civil Action 03-366 was filed in U.S. District Court, Southern District of Texas, Corpus Christi Division. H.W. Head Jr. Chief Judge presiding. IF YOU CARE TO CHECK IT.

Thanks to I'm Headed South for helping clarify the issue. He has also obviously studied the Coast and Harbor Inc. engineering report.


----------



## Net N Yahoo

I was there this last weekend. The flow in and out through Cedar Bayou was significant. The current was still strong half way between the mouth and mesquite bay.


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## duckmania

Thats great to hear.


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## specksorreds

*Pictures from 11-23-15*

Ran across these pictures on Commissioner Bubba Casterline's FB page. Not sure who the credit goes to for the pictures, but it really looks good. These were taken on November 23rd, this past Monday. Vinson Slough is definitely providing some flow through the back lacks and helping things out. Some of the long time local guides have told me that they have not seen flows though the lakes like now every before or not since before 1979 when it was all closed.

A great day to be thankful for a healthy ecosystem and to all those that had the fortitude to see the project through.


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## bigfishtx

Wow the entrance keeps marching south.


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## saltwaterjunky

*WOW*

You guys are killing me I want to get down there and see it again so bad. I was down there as a kid in the hey days cleaning fish at the Sea Gun for extra money from the charter boats and helping out on the shrimp boat there sometimes and even deck handing on the Whooping Crane even got to drive it once when the skipper [Capt.Brownie]went down in the engine room and knocked himself silly and had to have somebody come out from the marina to bring it in, bet I could`ve brought it in as much as was on the boat. Anybody volunteer hell I`ll pay for the gas, got my own 19 ft center console but wouldn`t run it by myself. Can`t get any of these knuckle heads up here thinks its nothing but lake fishn or its to far etc,etc.. saltwater ruin my gear,or my trailer etc. Keep the pics coming but sure makes me homesick for down there.Ain`t nothing like the Salt////////////


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## Brandon1107

Is there anywhere that the recent aerial photos are in chronological order?


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## pocjetty

DUTY FIRST said:


> All true EXCEPT, the placement of the spoil back in the 80s was not a MISTAKE. It was done deliberately, for the benefit of Perry Bass, to provide dry land access to all of his property.


Funny how certain people seem to have better results than others in dealing with our government. It's almost like people aren't treated equally. But that can't happen in the good ol' US of A.

Here's a story that should make you angry. I grew up with one of the Hawes boys.

http://www.johntedesco.net/blog/forced-off-their-land-joe-hawes-and-his-family-lost-their-ranch-on-matagorda-island-to-the-us-government-many-long-years-ago-they-still-want-it-back/


----------



## JoshJ

pocjetty said:


> Funny how certain people seem to have better results than others in dealing with our government. It's almost like people aren't treated equally. But that can't happen in the good ol' US of A.
> 
> Here's a story that should make you angry. I grew up with one of the Hawes boys.
> 
> http://www.johntedesco.net/blog/forced-off-their-land-joe-hawes-and-his-family-lost-their-ranch-on-matagorda-island-to-the-us-government-many-long-years-ago-they-still-want-it-back/


http://www.tpwf.org/media/press-releases/1million-to-coastal-conservation/


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## Flat's Hunter

Hadn't seen a update in awhile. Any new pictures. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


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## Net N Yahoo

Anyone seen the mouth with the low tides we are experiencing?


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## cab

It has to be a trickle. There is no water in Mesquite. We were through the area all weekend but never went in the bayou. We were wondering what it would look like.


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## Im Headed South

Had a buddy out there yesterday, they fished and caught some nice reds, shot a video he posted on FB. Water was pouring back in yesterday and he said it was waist deep in the channel at the mouth with a strong current toward both CB and VS. General configuration doesn't seemed to have moved a whole lot further south than the last updates showed.


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## Im Headed South

I was able to get it uploaded, I was fishing/scouting in Mesquite while he was recording that and the tide was as low as its been since last winter without a doubt. Good day for running around to find any new guts that have developed with the bayou being open for over a year now, no doubt it's changed the hydrology of the area.


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## Sgrem

cab said:


> It has to be a trickle. There is no water in Mesquite. We were through the area all weekend but never went in the bayou. We were wondering what it would look like.


Video shows quite an impressive trickle.

Good bull for all the surrounding bays.


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## FishAfrica

Glad to see it's still open! Thanks for the video


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## Im Headed South

Finally made time to head out and get a look at the bayou, tides in the bay were very low but the guts and current around the mouth was very encouraging to say the least. Had a very hard time finding a place to cross to get to the beach without getting water in my waders, was no crossing in the mouth way to deep. There are several guts exchanging water between CB/VS and the mouth, those were the areas with over 5' of water in them. We had no issues getting to the area where we park from Mesquite, the parking area where the sign use to be also had a deep gut so jumping up and running back out was no problem either. The sign to stop boats from entering the last section has gone missing, it was far enough away from the water that the only way it came down is by someone removing it, TPWD has been notified and their working on a replacement. Here are some videos I shot with my phone,


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## Copano/Aransas

Im Headed South said:


> Finally made time to head out and get a look at the bayou, tides in the bay were very low but the guts and current around the mouth was very encouraging to say the least. Had a very hard time finding a place to cross to get to the beach without getting water in my waders, was no crossing in the mouth way to deep. There are several guts exchanging water between CB/VS and the mouth, those were the areas with over 5' of water in them. We had no issues getting to the area where we park from Mesquite, the parking area where the sign use to be also had a deep gut so jumping up and running back out was no problem either. The sign to stop boats from entering the last section has gone missing, it was far enough away from the water that the only way it came down is by someone removing it, TPWD has been notified and their working on a replacement. Here are some videos I shot with my phone,


Excellent field report!! Cedar Bayou is looking great.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## irbjd

Im Headed South said:


> The sign to stop boats from entering the last section has gone missing, it was far enough away from the water that the only way it came down is by someone removing it, TPWD has been notified and their working on a replacement.


This is why we can't have nice things.


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## Bull Red

Did someone use the sign for their bonfire again? :headknock


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## Im Headed South

Boat ramp gossip is the same ol offenders made it disappear, they think they can play dumb next time their caught past it, doubt that works out for them.


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## FishAfrica

Thanks for the videos


----------



## Puddle_Jumper

Im Headed South said:


> Finally made time to head out and get a look at the bayou, tides in the bay were very low but the guts and current around the mouth was very encouraging to say the least. Had a very hard time finding a place to cross to get to the beach without getting water in my waders, was no crossing in the mouth way to deep. There are several guts exchanging water between CB/VS and the mouth, those were the areas with over 5' of water in them. We had no issues getting to the area where we park from Mesquite, the parking area where the sign use to be also had a deep gut so jumping up and running back out was no problem either. The sign to stop boats from entering the last section has gone missing, it was far enough away from the water that the only way it came down is by someone removing it, TPWD has been notified and their working on a replacement. Here are some videos I shot with my phone,


 Thank you for the report and the videos.. Very kewl to see


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## fritz423

So is the general impression that it will stay open this time barring hurricanes?

And once again I don't see how Cedar Bayou open is good and Rollover Pass being closed is good...


----------



## Finn Maccumhail

fritz423 said:


> So is the general impression that it will stay open this time barring hurricanes?
> 
> And once again I don't see how Cedar Bayou open is good and Rollover Pass being closed is good...


Because they're two completely different ecosystems.


----------



## LosingNemo

fritz423 said:


> So is the general impression that it will stay open this time barring hurricanes?
> 
> And once again I don't see how Cedar Bayou open is good and Rollover Pass being closed is good...


The problem with Rollover for the Feds is the shoaling of the GIWW caused by current from the pass. This is costly to the Feds due to the required maintenance dredging to maintain the GIWW from High Island to Bollivar. As a dredge contractor I prefer the Pass be left open.

Cedar Bayou is not close enough to the GIWW to affect vessel navigation in the way that Rollover does.


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## Stuart

I'll get flamed for this, but what is the sign for exactly? And don't tell me it's to keep boats from going beyond that point. What does everyone think will happen to the pass if boats go beyond that point?


----------



## KDubBlast

Stuart said:


> I'll get flamed for this, but what is the sign for exactly? And don't tell me it's to keep boats from going beyond that point. What does everyone think will happen to the pass if boats go beyond that point?


It's to keep boats from going past that point.


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## flounderchaser

Why is this post still on here?


----------



## KDubBlast

flounderchaser said:


> Why is this post still on here?


To keep people informed of the current condition of Cedar Bayou.


----------



## Copano/Aransas

KDubBlast said:


> To keep people informed of the current condition of Cedar Bayou.


X2â€¦kind of a stupid question right . Wait..No question is stupid but flounderchaser's is pointless to me. This is a very informative thread to keep updated IMO.


----------



## barronj

Stuart said:


> I'll get flamed for this, but what is the sign for exactly? And don't tell me it's to keep boats from going beyond that point. What does everyone think will happen to the pass if boats go beyond that point?


It's not what the collective brain trust of 2cool thinks will happen, it's what engineers and people who've studied what every third nimrod on a vessel will do in a fish pass. The channel moves all the time, weekly, monthly, all. the. time. Sea Tow could set up a kiosk @ the intersection of Vinson Slew and Cedar Bayou from all the people getting stuck due to the ever shifting gut and print enough money to fund the maintenance alone.

Sarcasm aside, it's not meant for boat travel. The name should be improved to "Cedar Bayou Fish Pass, No Boats You _ s _ hole!"


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## manwitaplan

barronj said:


> It's not what the collective brain trust of 2cool thinks will happen, it's what engineers and people who've studied what every third nimrod on a vessel will do in a fish pass. The channel moves all the time, weekly, monthly, all. the. time. Sea Tow could set up a kiosk @ the intersection of Vinson Slew and Cedar Bayou from all the people getting stuck due to the ever shifting gut and print enough money to fund the maintenance alone.
> 
> Sarcasm aside, it's not meant for boat travel. The name should be improved to "Cedar Bayou Fish Pass, No Boats You _ s _ hole!"


I second the motion for name change!


----------



## SolarScreenGuy

Just get the sign replaced and everybody obey the rules. I never heard of anyone passing beyond the posted area back in the days before the pass's most recent closing. Where are these idiots coming from?
www.solarscreenguys.com


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## Txredfish

I went out to Cedar Bayou about 3 weeks ago. Tide was low, but I had no trouble getting in with my boat which will run very shallow. One of those days - no fish in bayou or surf, only a few dinks. What happened to the no boat sign? So I don't know if I was passed the designated area or not with no sign. Will they put it back up? There was one other boat - a guide which had 4 waders in the party. They did the same catching as me. He kind of pointed where the sign might be.


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## Im Headed South

TPWD staff are working on getting a new sign made and installed.


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## DUTY FIRST

Coast Guard helicopters buzz right down the beach several times a day. One would think that with a little inter agency cooperation, they could radio or call TPWD game wardens on a cell phone, and report when they see a boat beyond the sign. 

I understand it's not an issue within Coast Guard jurisdiction, but would it be that difficult for someone at TPWD to pick up the phone and call CG and ask for them to keep an eye out?

A few busts and fines would go a long way to end the problem.


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## CaptBrad

A big lighted billboard that says NO BOATS PAST HERE STUPID and some razor wire strung across the bayou. Thatll fix the problem real fast


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## fritz423

Okay, I admit I've never been there but I've followed this issue since the beginning.

So explain to me why boats are limited to some arbitrary spot before the sign. It doesn't sound like people are going to try to push barges or oil tankers through.


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## [email protected]

Fritz - Because it's a fish pass, primarily, not intended to be a navigable channel to the gulf. Exceptional fishing in the mouth of Cedar Bayou where it hits the gulf surf. I for one do not relish the thought of boats driving through and between a line of wade fishermen, and that's how most folks fish it. It would seem that some are trying to use it as a shortcut to get their boat out to the surf, where they can then navigate and fish from the boat, without making the long trip around.


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## justletmein

fritz423 said:


> Okay, I admit I've never been there but I've followed this issue since the beginning.
> 
> So explain to me why boats are limited to some arbitrary spot before the sign. It doesn't sound like people are going to try to push barges or oil tankers through.


Basically "because they said so" but as EJ says below, it's better for everyone anyway.



[email protected] said:


> Fritz - Because it's a fish pass, primarily, not intended to be a navigable channel to the gulf. Exceptional fishing in the mouth of Cedar Bayou where it hits the gulf surf. *I for one do not relish the thought of boats driving through and between a line of wade fishermen, and that's how most folks fish it.* It would seem that some are trying to use it as a shortcut to get their boat out to the surf, where they can then navigate and fish from the boat, without making the long trip around.


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## Porky

Put the cable or chain back. Adult behavior is Politically Incorrect these days !
Signs, signs who needs any stinking signs.


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## Rubberback

[email protected] said:


> Fritz - Because it's a fish pass, primarily, not intended to be a navigable channel to the gulf. Exceptional fishing in the mouth of Cedar Bayou where it hits the gulf surf. I for one do not relish the thought of boats driving through and between a line of wade fishermen, and that's how most folks fish it. It would seem that some are trying to use it as a shortcut to get their boat out to the surf, where they can then navigate and fish from the boat, without making the long trip around.


Yup its never nice to see a boat go by when you've waded a mile to get to your spot. I'm talking 50ft from the honey hole your trying to get to. Problem is fish move.


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## Im Headed South

Birthday present from my better half was some flight time and yesterday presented a nice window so we went up a flew over everything between Port A and Seadrift. Looking at waters I've fished my whole life from 2000' up is a really awesome experience. We made a lap around CB and it's looking great, engineers are pleased as can be with how things are progressing. Here's a few pics and a link to a bunch more we shared with CCA.

http://m.facebook.com/CCATexas/albums/966242196764950/


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## Fearless

Thanks for the pics. It looks awesome!


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## whiskeydent

Is Vinson's Slough open to the bay? Is it navigable? Restrictions? Just curious.


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## Sgrem

You can get to VS from the bay....if you have the scary shallow boat to do it and can navigate the way back there....bring yourself a winch.


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## whiskeydent

I figured that was the case. Thanks.


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## Flat's Hunter

Maybe someone who has been there can explain. But from the pictures it looks like Vincent's Slough is the main water way, at least at the mouth. And cedar Bayou feeds into it. Based on this it is no wonder past attempts to open ceder Bayou have failed with it silting in. Why the importance of Cedar Bayou. Because it is a more navigable channel? Again looking at the mouth area it looks like we should be talking about Vincent Slough and it's little brother Cedar Bayou 

And to look closer at the aerial maps. The island there look like delta, further showing the past importance of the Vincent's flow. All the delta formation appears to be formed from the Vincent's side and not the Cedar side. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


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## Z

Fished there friday. Saw the TPWD guys put up a new "no vessels" sign, this time on south shore dunes. The water is flowing nicely, with the bayou too deep to cross. 

The fishing was alright. We caught crabs, drum, reds, trout, sheepshead on popping corks with live shrimp. We fished in the s-bends before the mouth.

Tell you what though, crossing mesquite bay in winds above 10mph is not fun.


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## Z

EDIT: The new no boats sign is on the NORTH Side of the bayou, facing toward mesquite. 

Although I think i remember there is one on the south side too, facing the gulf.


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## Im Headed South

Good to hear they finally got it back up, only took 2 months lol, and your right there is one on the south side of the mouth facing the gulf. Hopefully they took extra steps to make this one "guide proof".....oops did I say that out loud lol. We were out there last Sunday and caught a few trout in the same areas as you it sounds like, was mainly there to look at the guts and beach comb with the family. There was a guide boat beached up about where VS and CB come together just inside the mouth and a couple hundred yards past where the sign would have been, at the end of the day the guide who had his guys fishing south of the mouth swam across VS then walked to his boat then drove up into VS to get his clients, loaded up and headed back out through CB, drove right past the other 4 boats that were anchored up where the sign would have been.


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## Z

i'm going to guess he was in a STONER boat.....


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## Agwader

IHS, it looks like from your pictures that the mouth is in fact working it's way South, just like you said it would.


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## Spec-Rig.006

Man that place looks like croaker heaven ... !!!!


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## justletmein

How've the crowds been out there?


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## jampen

Man that looks great. It's a real pass now


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## ROCKPORTFISHERMAN

Time for another flyover ! With all of this rain you know it's really flowing now.


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## Darcat12

Looks just like it did when I first fished there with my father-in-law back in the late 70's and 80's. Brings back good memories.


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## Im Headed South

ROCKPORTFISHERMAN said:


> Time for another flyover ! With all of this rain you know it's really flowing now.


$400 an hour for flight time, you buy we'll fly


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## Z

Im Headed South said:


> $400 an hour for flight time, you buy we'll fly


I'll try to get some drone footage posted. Headed down there 4th of July weekend


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## Coastal_RedRaider

Saw this posted on Redfish Lodges facebook page today. This is drone footage of Cedar Bayou as of yesterday June 22nd. Its the first video.

http://www.facebook.com/RedfishLodgeonCopanoBay/?fref=ts&ref=br_tf


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## Im Headed South




----------



## bigfishtx

Im Headed South said:


>


Thanks for the drone video.

It didn't look like there was much flow, but, it was hard to tell


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## Coastal_RedRaider

Im Headed South said:


>


Thanks for converting it to youtube for me I'm Headed South! Didn't know how to post it like that.


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## Puddle_Jumper

HAHAHA I was just gonna post the same video.. Saw it on FB Ya beat me to it


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## Im Headed South

No problem, couldn't get the link through FB to work on my phone and I'd saw where the UTSMI folks had posted it to YouTube earlier.


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## JoshJ

What does the sign say at the end of the video on the San Jose side?


----------



## Coastal_RedRaider

JoshJ said:


> What does the sign say at the end of the video on the San Jose side?


It says no vessels beyond this point. Same as the other sign where you park the boats.


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## brandonbb

*video*

Thanks for all the info, the video was pretty sweet too!


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## Im Headed South

Yesterday. Fwiw, I talked to a buddy and he said tide was super low yesterday in Mesquite, lowest of the summer.


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## allrockport

Any reports lately ? Will be out there camping on Friday. Thanks for any info. Will post report when I get back.


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## SSST

My son had the opportunity to fish Cedar Bayou this past Sunday with his girlfriend's Dad, who happens to be a guide down there. Anyways, he said they parked before the sign and went out and waded the surf. He said it was dirty and rough, but they killed the trout, croakers and lures, didn't matter. As they were loading back up in the boat, he said here comes an airboat out of Vision flying by them. A bunch of guys gave him the 1 finger salute and I'm sure his clients were wondering what the deal was. My son said the bad thing was a couple of guys were fishing the channel above the sign, but the guide could've cared less.


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## blackjack runner

We fished there on Saturday. I saw minimum 3 guides fishing there with clients. Talked to 2 of them. Fished the guts and surf on incoming tide. Son fished the surf on a slack tide while we took a sammich break and limited on keeper reds and 2 more trout. Went to surf on outgoing and surf was rough. Caught some dinks. All in all decent trip. Did not see or get run over by airboat.


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## Net N Yahoo

*Still looking good*

Took a trip to cedar bayou this last weekend. It is looking great! There was a strong current flowing in and out. I tried to cross to see how deep it was. It was too swift and deep to cross. The fix still seems to be working.


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## Im Headed South

Sounds great, thanks for the report. 2 year anniversary of the opening was yesterday btw.


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## daniel7930

Yea. We went on Thursday. Strong current. And my brother tried to cross one spot. And it was deep


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## Puddle_Jumper

All great news except for the asshat in the airboat...


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## Net N Yahoo

I saw one airboat way back in Vinson Slough. He didn't come in through Cedar Bayou. He must have come in from the Aransas Bay side.


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## RubiconAg

Curious, was down over New Years, took the boat out, tides were highest I had seen them all year, most of our duck blind benches were submerged. Talked to pops yesterday, said tides were scary low. I have to assume that this means the bayou got a good "blowing out" over the last couple of weeks. More interested in it for the hydrology and less for the fishing report....any updates?


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## Net N Yahoo

I'm taking a trip to cedar bayou in a few weeks. Has anyone been lately? Have the tides been low? How is the water movement?


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## Captain Nathan Beabout

I went to Cedar Bayou last week. Tides are normal, but the sand has definitely shifted, running in to the boat sign is the same, but the bayou itself has moved about 3-400 yards south against St. Jose, the mouth of Vincent Slough is only about 15 yards across. Caught some dink trout in the bayou, but good reds in the surf.


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## Net N Yahoo

Wow. I was hoping the trout would have been better. Sounds like the mouth has changed up quite a bit from last fall. Thanks for the response.


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## Im Headed South

Still a little early for trout, reds are pretty thick though from what I've heard. Mouth is still migrating south as predicted, tides are way low right now for some reason, we usually see a big rush of water into the bays around the spring equinox which was a couple of days ago but as of now there's no sign of that happening. The last couple of springs we really saw a lot of scouring of the cuts with the major tide swings so hopefully the same happens this year.


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## bigfishtx

The mouth keeps moving south just like it did before. Why won't it eventually fill in this time around?


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## Im Headed South

Suppose to stop once it gets to the high dune line on the south side which is just south of the mouth of VS, once it gets there it's supposed to start migrating back to the north but at a slower pace. The hydraulic effects of having both CB and VS open are suppose to be enough to keep it scouring itself out, as long as enough water moves through the mouth it's going to be moving between the high dunes on the south and north side which is why jetties will not work, it's a dynamic area that needs to keep moving. If the amount of water that is now in the back lakes of St Joe and exchanging through VS is any indicator then there should be plenty of water pressure moving in and out of that side for a while, there are new cuts into Aransas Bay along the shoreline that are 8'+ deep where dry land was 18 months ago. All the above is according to models that have been right so far but may change as this isn't an exact science, there is no doubt in the difference the opening has made to the fishery of the area and it's already exceeding the life span of most all the nay sayers who were spouting off it would be closed in a year or 18 months. When the time comes for some maintenance dredging there's already about 1.5 million in the bank to help pay for it and addition funding will be much easier to find given the improvements that have been seen so far, I know some guides that should write a hell of check given the amount of time they spend out there with clients


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## Spots and Dots

I know some guides that should write a hell of check given the amount of time they spend out there with clients :D[/QUOTE said:


> Unfortunately, many/most of them are takers, not givers..........


----------



## Im Headed South

Spots and Dots said:


> Unfortunately, many/most of them are takers, not givers..........


Unfortunately your right but it still doesn't deter me or a few others I know from reminding them at the cleaning station.


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## Puddle_Jumper

Im Headed South said:


> Suppose to stop once it gets to the high dune line on the south side which is just south of the mouth of VS, once it gets there it's supposed to start migrating back to the north but at a slower pace. The hydraulic effects of having both CB and VS open are suppose to be enough to keep it scouring itself out, as long as enough water moves through the mouth it's going to be moving between the high dunes on the south and north side which is why jetties will not work, it's a dynamic area that needs to keep moving. If the amount of water that is now in the back lakes of St Joe and exchanging through VS is any indicator then there should be plenty of water pressure moving in and out of that side for a while, there are new cuts into Aransas Bay along the shoreline that are 8'+ deep where dry land was 18 months ago. All the above is according to models that have been right so far but may change as this isn't an exact science, there is no doubt in the difference the opening has made to the fishery of the area and it's already exceeding the life span of most all the nay sayers who were spouting off it would be closed in a year or 18 months. When the time comes for some maintenance dredging there's already about 1.5 million in the bank to help pay for it and addition funding will be much easier to find given the improvements that have been seen so far, I know some guides that should write a hell of check given the amount of time they spend out there with clients


Great info Headed South... Thanks for sharing !!


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## DUTY FIRST

Im Headed South said:


> Suppose to stop once it gets to the high dune line on the south side which is just south of the mouth of VS, once it gets there it's supposed to start migrating back to the north but at a slower pace. The hydraulic effects of having both CB and VS open are suppose to be enough to keep it scouring itself out, as long as enough water moves through the mouth it's going to be moving between the high dunes on the south and north side which is why jetties will not work, it's a dynamic area that needs to keep moving. If the amount of water that is now in the back lakes of St Joe and exchanging through VS is any indicator then there should be plenty of water pressure moving in and out of that side for a while, there are new cuts into Aransas Bay along the shoreline that are 8'+ deep where dry land was 18 months ago. All the above is according to models that have been right so far but may change as this isn't an exact science, there is no doubt in the difference the opening has made to the fishery of the area and it's already exceeding the life span of most all the nay sayers who were spouting off it would be closed in a year or 18 months. When the time comes for some maintenance dredging there's already about 1.5 million in the bank to help pay for it and addition funding will be much easier to find given the improvements that have been seen so far, I know some guides that should write a hell of check given the amount of time they spend out there with clients


Thank you for the well stated, informed, correct analysis of the issue. The situation is proceeding exactly as predicted by Coast and Harbor Engineering, the company that designed the project.

Of course there are still some naysayers (mostly who never fish the coastal bend) who are still hoping it will fail. The reopening of the pass has greatly improved the fishery all the way south to Port Aransas, not just in the immediate area of CB & VS.

It will only get better in the future as the 25 thousand acres of aquatic nursery wetlands in Vinson Slough and vicinity continue to recover from the damage done by a certain "Texas Conservation Legend" and his cohorts who caused the pass and slough to be closed for their own personal interests.

Thanks to all who helped the project proceed.


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## jmou50

Question: Not a complaint about CD and VS. Do y'all think there is an effect on the silting in of South Pass and Contee since Cedar Bayou has been opened....again not complaining.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## JoshJ

DUTY FIRST said:


> Thank you for the well stated, informed, correct analysis of the issue. The situation is proceeding exactly as predicted by Coast and Harbor Engineering, the company that designed the project.
> 
> Of course there are still some naysayers (mostly who never fish the coastal bend) who are still hoping it will fail. The reopening of the pass has greatly improved the fishery all the way south to Port Aransas, not just in the immediate area of CB & VS.
> 
> It will only get better in the future as the 25 thousand acres of aquatic nursery wetlands in Vinson Slough and vicinity continue to recover from the damage done by a certain "Texas Conservation Legend" and his cohorts who caused the pass and slough to be closed for their own personal interests.
> 
> Thanks to all who helped the project proceed.


That "Texas Conservation Legend" donated 1M of the 1.5M that is in the maintenance fund to keep the pass open.


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## Trouthunter

> Question: Not a complaint about CD and VS. Do y'all think there is an effect on the silting in of South Pass and Contee since Cedar Bayou has been opened....again not complaining.


I wouldn't think so.

TH


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## DUTY FIRST

JoshJ said:


> That "Texas Conservation Legend" donated 1M of the 1.5M that is in the maintenance fund to keep the pass open.


That's a neat trick since he was then long since dead.


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## Favre4

Without the construction of jetties I think it's just gonna keep being a wasted project.. it's just goin to keep silting in... JMO....


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## Fish4Life

Favre4 said:


> Without the construction of jetties I think it's just gonna keep being a wasted project.. it's just goin to keep silting in... JMO....


Well guess what mr. negative "just my opinion"....it's still flowing. How about that!!


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## JoshJ

DUTY FIRST said:


> That's a neat trick since he was then long since dead.


I stand partially corrected. I read your original post as the current family members, not their father.

I assumed that you were talking about the current generation since all the finger pointing was at them during the permitting process before construction.


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## DUTY FIRST

Favre4 said:


> Without the construction of jetties I think it's just gonna keep being a wasted project.. it's just goin to keep silting in... JMO....


Oh, REALLY ? Is that based on your expert interpretation of the engineering report, or are you shooting from the hip (lip) ?

"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy


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## Erich1717

Favre4 said:


> Without the construction of jetties I think it's just gonna keep being a wasted project.. it's just goin to keep silting in... JMO....


Headed South Explained perfectly why Jetties would not work. Plus the cost of doing Jetties is not possible. Would be into the hundreds of millions to jettie it just to have it not be able to move like Nature wants it too.


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## DUTY FIRST

JoshJ said:


> I stand partially corrected. I read your original post as the current family members, not their father.
> 
> I assumed that you were talking about the current generation since all the finger pointing was at them during the permitting process before construction.


The current generation had a change of heart after it became apparent that the project was going to proceed regardless the objections or interference of them or others. After RFA (Recreational Fishing Alliance) and FTCP (Friends of Texas Coastal Passes) withdrew their lawsuit (without prejudice) in the interest of promoting unity, the opposition began falling in line. 

None of the opposition wanted the lawsuit reinstated after it became further apparent that they would lose, and probably be forced to pay for the entire project. In addition, some of the newer generation realized the error of their predecessors ways, and (I believe) truly wanted to see the restoration of Vinson Slough. I applaud them for that.

Even CCA got on the bandwagon and helped fund the project after it was obvious the project was moving forward. I'll not comment on their motives, only that I'm thankful for their funding.

I would be remiss if I did not add my thanks to SCBI (Save Cedar Bayou Inc.), particularly the misunderstood and often wrongly maligned Lynn Edwards, for initializing and keeping the (Cedar Bayou portion) of the project alive from the beginning, and through it's darkest days. Without their valiant efforts at great personal expense and sacrifice, There never would have been a project. 

Note: The original lawsuit did not name the family or family businesses as plaintiffs, only the government agencies involved, but facts uncovered during the investigation were deeply embarrassing to the family and its patriarch. 

Further note: When the Federal Judge ruled the lawsuit could proceed, as the Statute of Limitation did not apply, since the damage was still ongoing, things took a sudden turn for the better.


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## JoshJ

DUTY FIRST said:


> The current generation had a change of heart after it became apparent that the project was going to proceed regardless the objections or interference of them or others. After RFA (Recreational Fishing Alliance) and FTCP (Friends of Texas Coastal Passes) withdrew their lawsuit (without prejudice) in the interest of promoting unity, the opposition began falling in line.
> 
> None of the opposition wanted the lawsuit reinstated after it became further apparent that they would lose, and probably be forced to pay for the entire project. In addition, some of the newer generation realized the error of their predecessors ways, and (I believe) truly wanted to see the restoration of Vinson Slough. I applaud them for that.
> 
> Even CCA got on the bandwagon and helped fund the project after it was obvious the project was moving forward. I'll not comment on their motives, only that I'm thankful for their funding.
> 
> I would be remiss if I did not add my thanks to SCBI (Save Cedar Bayou Inc.), particularly the misunderstood and often wrongly maligned Lynn Edwards, for initializing and keeping the (Cedar Bayou portion) of the project alive from the beginning, and through it's darkest days. Without their valiant efforts at great personal expense and sacrifice, There never would have been a project.
> 
> Note: The original lawsuit did not name the family or family businesses as plaintiffs, only the government agencies involved, but facts uncovered during the investigation were deeply embarrassing to the family and its patriarch.
> 
> Further note: When the Federal Judge ruled the lawsuit could proceed, as the Statute of Limitation did not apply, since the damage was still ongoing, things took a sudden turn for the better.


That is the best background information that I have read. Thanks for the clarification.


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## pocjetty

DUTY FIRST said:


> Oh, REALLY ? Is that based on your expert interpretation of the engineering report, or are you shooting from the hip (lip) ?
> 
> "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy


The flip side of that is that ALL of us... each and every one of us... have been promised things by government agencies and representatives - and far too often reality did not live up to what was promised. And the over-arching problem that adds insult to injury is that the people who made said promises are almost always long gone by the time the final verdict comes in. If people are skeptical, you should probably understand that it comes with the territory.

I doubt that there is anyone on 2cool, any fisherman, who would not ultimately like to see the Cedar Bayou project succeed. I'm sure there are a few who would take pleasure in saying, "I told you so." But if you asked them whether they would rather say "I told you so", or have a healthier bay system and more marine life? I think you know what the answer would be.

The fact is, we're better off having a flowing pass there than not having one. There was zero chance of raising enough money to install jetties, so whether it would have been better is immaterial. Waiting for a "perfect" solution would have just meant that nothing would have happened.

The other fact is that the engineers did they best they could to design a system that would get enough flow to keep the pass open. They believe it will work - but they don't _know_. (If you like, I can make a list of engineers and PhD's who have made catastrophic miscalculations.) Pretending like they do absolutely "know" is just going to make people push back more. IF the pass generates sufficient flow to be self-sustaining, we all win. If it begins to diminish and silt in (as it has in the past), hopefully it will be important enough to enough people, and we can pull together to fix it, and maybe improve it. I donated money to the cause this time, and if I'm still alive I'll do it again if the need arises.

I don't know the whole story behind the battle to open Cedar Bayou, and I don't need to know at this point. But your comments about how the opposition was bulldozed don't make you very sympathetic. I'm glad you won, and the pass was opened. But you might want to just let it rest. I'm friends with the Hawes family, who had their share of Matagorda Island taken away from them by the government. And the people responsible sounded a lot like you. Not saying that's what happened here, just that it's an association you might want to avoid.

You do what you want, but we would all be a lot better off to just enjoy the effects an open Cedar Bayou is having on our bays, and do our best to keep it that way.


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## Stuart

Good post pocjetty.

People need to look no further than to look at the COE's attempt to open the mouth of the San Bernard. They had flow meters set up on either side of the ICW, the mouth had great flow for a while and it still silted back in short order.

I hope Cedar Bayou stays open because natural passes are key.

Finally, was none of the BP money available to do this? Seems they are spending it on projects that aren't nearly as importatnt.


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## Im Headed South

No BP money, wasn't within the required foot print of where that money must be spent. Could be others had money to spend on this project thanks to the BP money paying for other projects though.


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## sharkinaggie07

Stuart said:


> People need to look no further than to look at the COE's attempt to open the mouth of the San Bernard. They had flow meters set up on either side of the ICW, the mouth had great flow for a while and it still silted back in short order.


It is my understanding that the engineering that went in to the opening of the San Bernard was not nearly as thought out and precise as Cedar Bayou. All they did was dredge a straight line to the gulf. The San Bernard was never a straight line to the gulf after the ICW. That project was destined to fail from the get go IMHO.

-SA


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## iwant2fish

Reading all this, how positive it was for the ecosystem, makes me wonder why will the state do the opposite to rollover pass? Maybe designate rollover pass as a fish pass to save it.


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## irbjd

iwant2fish said:


> Reading all this, how positive it was for the ecosystem, makes me wonder why will the state do the opposite to rollover pass? Maybe designate rollover pass as a fish pass to save it.


Rollover isn't a natural pass like Cedar Bayou. Not going to delve into whether Rollover is good for East Galveston Bay, as that horse has been beat to death several times over.


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## Favre4

Fish4Life said:


> Well guess what mr. negative "just my opinion"....it's still flowing. How about that!!


MR. Negative? LOL I was just stating an opinion. Ive been there several times in the past couple months, and yes it is still flowing but not like it was. I just think that WE are looking at having to keep re-dredging it every time it silts in which will run probably in the millions each time we do so. Save the money, bring in the big wig engineers and do it right where it would last. I do forsee a problem with jetties bc of vinson slough and the impact it would have on that.

I seriously don't see why people want to jump on me just for saying i Don't think dredging will work. No I'm not an engineer and don't claim to be one. But I have donated over $50,000 dollars to the CCA and having done so, do think I'm allowed to have an opinion. I am proud to have contributed the money and glad I am fortunate enough to have done so, but don't think anyone should be jumping on me for just stating my opinion. I am sure their are people that know a lot more than me solving the problem, but from observing the first dredge to where it sits now and the short amount of time it took to silt in, i just feel unsure about the next route to go. Im sorry I feel that way, and yes I do of sure want it open as do the rest of you. Im on board, America is so touchy now.


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