# Yates back in the news!



## capt. david (Dec 29, 2004)

Doctors for Andrea Yates, the Clear Lake mother who killed her five children in 2001, have recommended that she be granted permission to attend group outings with other patients at the state psychiatric hospital where she has been institutionalized since a 2006 retrial found her innocent by reason of insanity, according to her attorney.

Yates, now 49, was initially convicted of capital murder for the drowning deaths of Noah, 7; John, 5; Paul, 3; Luke 2; and Mary, 6 months, in 2002 and sentenced to life in prison. An appeals court granted the new trial, after which she became an inpatient at Kerrville State Hospital.

She's the only patient at the facility who has never received a group-outing pass, said George Parnham, her attorney.

A teleconference call between a judge, Parnham and staff at Kerrville State Hospital had been scheduled for Friday, but it was canceled because Parnham was unable to participate. Parnham said Saturday that he doesn't anticipate the meeting being rescheduled until Yates' next annual evaluation in the fall.

"The doctors recommended (Yates) could benefit from passes for a couple of hours to attend picnics with other patients," said Parnham, adding that the outings would be part of Yates' ongoing rehabilitation and that she would be accompanied by guards and staff at all times.

In 2012 Parnham said that he believed that Yates was ready for outpatient care. In May of that year, her request to attend church services outside the hospital was denied by a judge.

This woman should never see daylight. So who gets to speak for the innocent children?


----------



## snapperlicious (Aug 11, 2009)

She should be on death row instead of a psych hospital!


----------



## MarkU (Jun 3, 2013)

snapperlicious said:


> She should be on death row instead of a psych hospital!


Yup... Mark my words. If we start getting more of the likes, such as Wendy Davis in office. This whackjob one day may be walking among us.


----------



## MattRez (Mar 19, 2013)

I think she should be put in general population. She can get in-house justice.


----------



## Mad Mike (Dec 28, 2005)

The liberal media made her out to be the victim in the murders (husbands fault for getting her pregnant). She should get the needle.


----------



## sotexhookset (Jun 4, 2011)

snapperlicious said:


> She should be on death row instead of a psych hospital!


I'll have to disagree. She should've been taken off years ago and killed by now.


----------



## Bearkat73 (Aug 5, 2009)

This just flies all over me. I get so mad when I read stuff like this. She kills 5 innocent children, get the insanity plea, and were going to let her back out in the general public because we feel bad for her? Give me a freaking break. She should never see the outside of that hospital.


----------



## ZenDaddy (May 22, 2004)

Rehab or vengance? Which side to fall on? Hmmm, anyone ask the hubby his thoughts?


----------



## Spirit (Nov 19, 2008)

All that woman deserves is a bullet between the eyes. Anything else is way too good for that sorry trash.


----------



## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

Dang, rough crowd. The woman is mentally ill. Too many people in 2cool seem to just like the idea of killing. Some outings would probably be good for her.


----------



## MarkU (Jun 3, 2013)

mastercylinder said:


> Dang, rough crowd. The woman is mentally ill. Too many people in 2cool seem to just like the idea of killing. Some outings would probably be good for her.


To a target range, as a target. She killed her 5 children. Why don't you ask her children if they'd like to go on a picnic with their father? This subhuman has extinguished her right to live.


----------



## BretE (Jan 24, 2008)

mastercylinder said:


> Dang, rough crowd. The woman is mentally ill. Too many people in 2cool seem to just like the idea of killing. Some outings would probably be good for her.


Does it really matter what's "good for her" at this point?.....seriously....

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

MarkU said:


> To a target range, as a target. She killed her 5 children. Why don't you ask her children if they'd like to go on a picnic with their father? This subhuman has extinguished her right to live.


What she did was horrific, but when you kill her, you are basically making a statement that you are no better than she.

The woman is very mentally ill.


----------



## TranTheMan (Aug 17, 2009)

I am with MC here. The woman is just mentally ill -- very, very ill. Just a sad situation for all.


----------



## misbhavn (Nov 19, 2010)

mastercylinder said:


> What she did was horrific, but when you kill her, you are basically making a statement that you are no better than she.
> 
> The woman is very mentally ill.


I wonder if you would feel the same way if it were your children she killed?


----------



## DCAVA (Aug 5, 2013)

mastercylinder said:


> Dang, rough crowd. The woman is mentally ill. Too many people in 2cool seem to just like the idea of killing. Some outings would probably be good for her.


 The Bible says "live by the sword, die by the sword".....nuff said!!


----------



## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

DCAVA said:


> The Bible says "live by the sword, die by the sword".....nuff said!!


And that's why I think the Bible is mostly a bunch of nonsense.


----------



## Outearly (Nov 17, 2009)

The occasional easy mingling of hate and Christianity on 2cool is something to behold.

The woman is profoundly mentally ill.


----------



## Mad Mike (Dec 28, 2005)

mastercylinder said:


> The woman is very mentally ill.


All psychopathic murderers are mentally ill to a degree.


----------



## capt. david (Dec 29, 2004)

MC she lost that mentally ill **** when she had to chase her last child. She was aware what she was doing. The justice system found her mentally ill with the help of a seasoned defense attorney. Should she be allowed outside to breath fresh air ect. HELL NO!!!


----------



## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

Outearly said:


> The occasional easy mingling of hate and Christianity on 2cool is something to behold.
> 
> The woman is profoundly mentally ill.


Good post. All of these people claim to be such righteous Christians but just have no problem with killing for fun or "justice." Just a bunch of hypocrites if you ask me.

But, if lying to yourself makes you happy, so be it.


----------



## DCAVA (Aug 5, 2013)

mastercylinder said:


> And that's why I think the Bible is mostly a bunch of nonsense.


 Ask for forgiveness, before it is too late.....

IMO!!


----------



## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

DCAVA said:


> Ask for forgiveness, before it is too late.....
> 
> IMO!!


I need to ask for forgiveness for not taking seriously a book of fiction? I don't think so. Jesus was a charlatan.


----------



## DCAVA (Aug 5, 2013)

mastercylinder said:


> I need to ask for forgiveness for not taking seriously a book of fiction? I don't think so. Jesus was a charlatan.


 Your comments do not warrant any more responses sir, good day!


----------



## Mad Mike (Dec 28, 2005)

jtupper said:


> I wonder if you would feel the same way if it were your children she killed?


He's not going to answer your question. MC is nothing more than a athiest that bashes the bible every chance he gets.


----------



## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

Mad Mike said:


> He's not going to answer your question. MC is nothing more than a athiest that bashes the bible every chance he gets.


Let's start from the beginning ... human life and Earth began 6,000 years ago and a God created 10^21 stars? OK .Enjoy your fantasy world.


----------



## Jamie_Lee (Oct 28, 2010)

mastercylinder said:


> Dang, rough crowd. The woman is mentally ill. Too many people in 2cool seem to just like the idea of killing. Some outings would probably be good for her.


Is this a joke? "outings would be good for her"
What person in their right mind would give a flying F about what is "Good for her" 
Maybe you yourself are mentally ill. Maybe you can go join her in there and y'all can go on outings together and talk about how she murdered her 5 children while getting a breath of fresh air that her children will never be able to experience anymore. 
If I remember correctly she drowned then to "save them from the devil?" You can tell her all about how you don't believe in God and then maybe she will kill you too thinking that the devil is in you already! Then she can go on more outings after that because it will be good for her.

Do you have children? What if they were all drowned one by one in a bathtub while you were at work, would you still feel the same way? Would you want the person who murdered all your children to be able to go on outings because it would be good for them?


----------



## cklimpt (Jan 4, 2010)

I agree that she is mentally ill and that every person who has murdered anyone in cold blood has to have some kind of mental illness. I do not see why she should be given any special privileges to enjoy "group time". There is no rehabilitation for someone who commits such an awful act and she should be locked in a dark cold room until her day comes from the almighty judge.


----------



## sotexhookset (Jun 4, 2011)

Jamie_Lee said:


> Is this a joke? "outings would be good for her"
> What person in their right mind would give a flying F about what is "Good for her"
> Maybe you yourself are mentally ill. Maybe you can go join her in there and y'all can go on outings together and talk about how she murdered her 5 children while getting a breath of fresh air that her children will never be able to experience anymore.
> If I remember correctly she drowned then to "save them from the devil?" You can tell her all about how you don't believe in God and then maybe she will kill you too thinking that the devil is in you already! Then she can go on more outings after that because it will be good for her.
> ...


Mc's a long term member here for one thing and one thing only that has nothing to do with fishin or huntin. He's a GD fool.


----------



## BretE (Jan 24, 2008)

Jamie_Lee said:


> Is this a joke? "outings would be good for her"
> What person in their right mind would give a flying F about what is "Good for her"
> Maybe you yourself are mentally ill. Maybe you can go join her in there and y'all can go on outings together and talk about how she murdered her 5 children while getting a breath of fresh air that her children will never be able to experience anymore.
> If I remember correctly she drowned then to "save them from the devil?" You can tell her all about how you don't believe in God and then maybe she will kill you too thinking that the devil is in you already! Then she can go on more outings after that because it will be good for her.
> ...


Kinda what I posted earlier only you said it better.....he'll still never get it...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Ernest (May 21, 2004)

But, wait, I thought that good Christians cared about the souls of all sinners. 

I also thought that no matter the nature of your sin, Christ died to wipe away that sin, large or small. That debt was paid long ago. All that is required is that you seek redemption and forgiveness by professing faith in Jesus Christ, our Lord. Thus, the Christian faith is all about loving thy neighbor, caring about others, caring about sinners, and helping guide them to Christ, our Savior. 

Yates is a sinner. So, shouldn't all Christians care about her? Pray that she finds the Lord? Perhaps that is why she was not executed. So as to give her the chance to recover her sanity, seek forgiveness, and as a result, enjoy everlasting life with our Lord.


----------



## sotexhookset (Jun 4, 2011)

That is something you an ol Brucie need to discuss while yall are spooning each other tonight. I say kill the ***** as she has killed and I'll pray for idiots like the two of you if y'all got hurt or whatever and posted it on here. Never have I claimed to be a perfect man in anyway I've lived my life but still believe in an eye for an eye and pray for forgiveness as I am a God fearing man. Unlike you two goofy fks.


----------



## redduck (Jul 26, 2006)

I do not care if she is mentally ill. She does not deserve to live.


----------



## Buckshot Magee (Dec 13, 2009)

She was originally given a life sentence. This was reversed on appeal, as the testimony of Dr. Park Dietz on behalf of the prosecution in the original trial was determined false. (Basically, he just made something up - not good.) 

A Texas jury's verdict on appeal was not guilty by reason of insanity. It's almost impossible to successfully try and win an insanity plea in Texas...


----------



## Jamie_Lee (Oct 28, 2010)

I have zero, and I mean ZERO sympathy or pity for any person that would intentionally cause harm or death to an innocent, defenseless child. Someone that does it 5 times over to her own children, shouldn't be able to breathe. She should be drug to the bathroom and drowned herself.


----------



## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

Jamie_Lee said:


> Is this a joke? "outings would be good for her"
> What person in their right mind would give a flying F about what is "Good for her"
> Maybe you yourself are mentally ill. Maybe you can go join her in there and y'all can go on outings together and talk about how she murdered her 5 children while getting a breath of fresh air that her children will never be able to experience anymore.
> If I remember correctly she drowned then to "save them from the devil?" You can tell her all about how you don't believe in God and then maybe she will kill you too thinking that the devil is in you already! Then she can go on more outings after that because it will be good for her.
> ...


OK, Jaime, you win. After all, we all know that two wrongs do make a right.


----------



## chumy (Jul 13, 2012)

Ernest said:


> But, wait, I thought that good Christians cared about the souls of all sinners.
> 
> I also thought that no matter the nature of your sin, Christ died to wipe away that sin, large or small. That debt was paid long ago. All that is required is that you seek redemption and forgiveness by professing faith in Jesus Christ, our Lord. Thus, the Christian faith is all about loving thy neighbor, caring about others, caring about sinners, and helping guide them to Christ, our Savior.
> 
> Yates is a sinner. So, shouldn't all Christians care about her? Pray that she finds the Lord? Perhaps that is why she was not executed. So as to give her the chance to recover her sanity, seek forgiveness, and as a result, enjoy everlasting life with our Lord.


ok Ernest, i'll start that true christian line. Prayers go out for Andrea!!!!


----------



## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

Ernest said:


> But, wait, I thought that good Christians cared about the souls of all sinners.
> 
> I also thought that no matter the nature of your sin, Christ died to wipe away that sin, large or small. That debt was paid long ago. All that is required is that you seek redemption and forgiveness by professing faith in Jesus Christ, our Lord. Thus, the Christian faith is all about loving thy neighbor, caring about others, caring about sinners, and helping guide them to Christ, our Savior.
> 
> Yates is a sinner. So, shouldn't all Christians care about her? Pray that she finds the Lord? Perhaps that is why she was not executed. So as to give her the chance to recover her sanity, seek forgiveness, and as a result, enjoy everlasting life with our Lord.


I couldn't have said it better myself, but most of these people are only Sunday morning Christians. They're biggest talent is fooling themselves.


----------



## big john o (Aug 12, 2005)

mastercylinder said:


> I couldn't have said it better myself, but most of these people are only Sunday morning Christians. They're biggest talent is fooling themselves.


You are such a Troll!


----------



## Jamie_Lee (Oct 28, 2010)

mastercylinder said:


> OK, Jaime, you win. After all, we all know that two wrongs do make a right.


No Bruce, two wrongs do not make a right. Proper justice being served for 5 innocent children who were drowned to their death by their own mother is right. The last thing those poor innocent children saw was their own mother, the person who was supposed to protect them, guide them and love them unconditionally, holding them under water as they gasped for air.


----------



## Flat Trout (Aug 2, 2011)

MC, I thought you were moving to So. America by way of Dayton and with your traveling companion TBT. Do you need help with a ticket?


Brrrrr


----------



## Main Frame 8 (Mar 16, 2007)

I just took my dramamine and ready for the ride.

Please make sure your seatbelt is buckled and keep arms / legs inside the ride at all times.


----------



## saltwatersensations (Aug 30, 2004)

Bruce you shouldn't be allowed out for special outings either.


----------



## finkikin (Jul 8, 2011)

mastercylinder said:


> Dang, rough crowd. The woman is mentally ill. Too many people in 2cool seem to just like the idea of killing. Some outings would probably be good for her.


 Well, the Princess of Dayton once again is proving how retarded he really is. Good God you are a pathetic dolt.


----------



## finkikin (Jul 8, 2011)

Jamie_Lee said:


> Is this a joke? "outings would be good for her"
> What person in their right mind would give a flying F about what is "Good for her"
> Maybe you yourself are mentally ill. Maybe you can go join her in there and y'all can go on outings together and talk about how she murdered her 5 children while getting a breath of fresh air that her children will never be able to experience anymore.
> If I remember correctly she drowned then to "save them from the devil?" You can tell her all about how you don't believe in God and then maybe she will kill you too thinking that the devil is in you already! Then she can go on more outings after that because it will be good for her.
> ...


Good post Jaime Lee! Says I got to spread.


----------



## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

Jamie_Lee said:


> No Bruce, two wrongs do not make a right. Proper justice being served for 5 innocent children who were drowned to their death by their own mother is right. The last thing those poor innocent children saw was their own mother, the person who was supposed to protect them, guide them and love them unconditionally, holding them under water as they gasped for air.


I sorta understand your emotion in this case, Jaime, but how is killing a mentally ill person "justice?" We all agree that she committed a horrific deed, but what is just about killing her?


----------



## capt. david (Dec 29, 2004)

Wow Jamie calm down girl. Most if not all agree with what you stated. Josh don't **** her off anymore than she is right now! MC thread wasn't meant to stir the debate about what should have happened at trial. Just that they would even let her go to "picnics" is uncanny to me.


----------



## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

big john o said:


> You are such a Troll!


Thank you, John. My daddy taught me to do what you do well or don't bother doing it at all.


----------



## Jamie_Lee (Oct 28, 2010)

capt. david said:


> Wow Jamie calm down girl. Most if not all agree with what you stated. Josh don't **** her off anymore than she is right now! MC thread wasn't meant to stir the debate about what should have happened at trial. Just that they would even let her go to "picnics" is uncanny to me.


David I'm not ******  you know me better than that!!


----------



## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

Please answer my question, Jamie Lee. How is killing her "justice" for her killing her kids?


----------



## poco jim (Jun 28, 2010)

I'm guessing you don't believe in the death penalty at all, right Libtard.


----------



## Jamie_Lee (Oct 28, 2010)

mastercylinder said:


> Please answer my question, Jamie Lee. How is killing her "justice" for her killing her kids?


Seriously? Read what you just wrote! She killed her kids! Not one kid but FIVE! 
How is allowing her to go on outings Justice? She does not deserve to be here anymore than her children deserved to be murdered and she sure as heck shouldn't be able to see the light of day. 
Now quit being annoying!


----------



## Category6 (Nov 21, 2007)

OK, I've been avoiding this but... When the murders broke I was going to a bible study group on Wednesday nights with her husband's best friend and the friends wife in Clear lake area, and yes I know 100% it's legit. I believe the husband was a NASA engineer if memory serves. According to the friend the husband had taken up with a radical doomsday "the rapture is nigh" type sidewalk preacher that convinced him to forsake all his worldly possessions and give everything to God (and the wacko preacher was the one who could get it to God directly oddly enough), so he moved his wife and kids to a travel trailer nearby that most of us wouldn't use as a deer camp trailer and sold everything they owned that had value, including their massive house in Clear Lake, and gave the money to the "church" i.e. the preacher. Then she got pregnant again and he left her there all day every day with little of nothing while he was making 200+ a year and giving it to God, i.e. "the preacher", and when the baby came he went straight back to work and left her alone again. It took awhile, but she went bat **** crazy and then she did what she did, and he was the sobbing victim on TV. I always thought he should've been the one in jail TBH. I'm not saying she shouldn't die, but he should have to see it happen and know that he's next in line!


----------



## jtburf (May 26, 2004)

I think some folks are missing the point or facts.

Is she bat **** crazy and should she have gotten the needle YES!!!!!

However she was found Mentally Ill, like it or not.

Now why should the rest of the "Folks" living in the home be allowed out on day trips and her not?

I personally do not care what she does as she poses no danger to me or mine, that said she should have the same rights afforded to her as the others get.

John


----------



## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

Jamie_Lee said:


> Seriously? Read what you just wrote! She killed her kids! Not one kid but FIVE!
> How is allowing her to go on outings Justice? She does not deserve to be here anymore than her children deserved to be murdered and she sure as heck shouldn't be able to see the light of day.
> Now quit being annoying!


You haven't answered my question, yet, Jaime. How is a murder for a murder considered "justice?"


----------



## sotexhookset (Jun 4, 2011)

mastercylinder said:


> You haven't answered my question, yet, Jaime. How is a murder for a murder considered "justice?"


Ill answer that *******. Its not justice. Holding her head under water 10 times a day until she's two seconds from death and begging to die would only partly be justice. Killing that ***** would be letting her off easy.

So I guess you're right in saying to execute her would be wrong so she should suffer by torture to never forget what she did to those kids. Lookie there. I guess I agree with you.


----------



## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

sotexhookset said:


> Ill answer that *******. Its not justice. Holding her head under water 10 times a day until she's two seconds from death and begging to die would only partly be justice. Killing that ***** would be letting her off easy.
> 
> So I guess you're right in saying to execute her would be wrong so she should suffer by torture to never forget what she did to those kids. Lookie there. I guess I agree with you.


So, what I'm understanding here is that Exodus 20:13 is open to interpretation?


----------



## Gottagofishin (Dec 17, 2005)

Category5 said:


> OK, I've been avoiding this but... When the murders broke I was going to a bible study group on Wednesday nights with her husband's best friend and the friends wife in Clear lake area, and yes I know 100% it's legit. I believe the husband was a NASA engineer if memory serves. According to the friend the husband had taken up with a radical doomsday "the rapture is nigh" type sidewalk preacher that convinced him to forsake all his worldly possessions and give everything to God (and the wacko preacher was the one who could get it to God directly oddly enough), so he moved his wife and kids to a travel trailer nearby that most of us wouldn't use as a deer camp trailer and sold everything they owned that had value, including their massive house in Clear Lake, and gave the money to the "church" i.e. the preacher. Then she got pregnant again and he left her there all day every day with little of nothing while he was making 200+ a year and giving it to God, i.e. "the preacher", and when the baby came he went straight back to work and left her alone again. It took awhile, but she went bat **** crazy and then she did what she did, and he was the sobbing victim on TV. I always thought he should've been the one in jail TBH. I'm not saying she shouldn't die, but he should have to see it happen and know that he's next in line!


Just to keep the facts straight nasa engineers can't afford massive houses. They didn't live in a trailer either. They lived in a 3BR house in Camino South which is where the murders occurred.

They were members of a fundamentalist church. I don't think that is much of an excuse for what happened.

Personally I think she was wacky for a while and he just ignored it.

The kids were the real losers, but killing the Mom won't change a thing and my Bible is very clear on who gets to make that call.


----------



## capt. david (Dec 29, 2004)

Cat 5 the move to a trailer was when they came back to Houston from Fla. In Fla they lived in a trailer and even a converted bus. The bought a house in CL. The same hose where her children were killed. She didn't kill them in a trailer.


----------



## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

Gottagofishin said:


> The kids were the real losers, but killing the Mom won't change a thing and my Bible is very clear on who gets to make that call.


^
End of discussion.


----------



## misbhavn (Nov 19, 2010)

I can tell you this, if anyone did to my kids what she did to hers, a jury of her peers would be the least of her concerns. Call it vengeance, retribution or just plain revenge, but that B would suffer slowly and painfully before I sent her to meet her maker. And, to be clear, my salvation or lack thereof would be the last thing on my mind.


----------



## ZenDaddy (May 22, 2004)

Gottagofishin said:


> Just to keep the facts straight nasa engineers can't afford massive houses. They didn't live in a trailer either. They lived in a 3BR house in Camino South which is where the murders occurred.
> 
> They were members of a fundamentalist church. I don't think that is much of an excuse for what happened.
> 
> ...


Hey, stop it -

Your ruinning a perfectly good thread with facts, reason and a little Christianity to boot.

The rest of you folks carry on. Let me help - I have a friend of a friend who said on her fiirst outing she plans on splitting her day potlicking you fisherman and hunting a high fence ranch.

Carry on ...


----------



## Spirit (Nov 19, 2008)

I am amazed that any of you are taking up for this woman. She murdered her children in cold blood. How can you sympathize with her? The blood of those children cried for justice and got none at all. Their killer got a pat on the head and a "you did nothing wrong, we love you" sentence. She has been given life at the Ritz and now she wants more rewards? BULL!!


----------



## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

spirit said:


> I am amazed that any of you are taking up for this woman. She murdered her children in cold blood. How can you sympathize with her? The blood of those children cried for justice and got none at all. Their killer got a pat on the head and a "you did nothing wrong, we love you" sentence. She has been given life at the Ritz and now she wants more rewards? BULL!!


I don't think anybody is "taking up" for her, Spirit. What she did was horrific, but what good does killing her do? The woman is very sick and are we such a simple - minded society that we actually believe that killing is justice for killing? What does that fix?


----------



## poppadawg (Aug 10, 2007)

I understand they are going to let her out on the weekends to earn a little extra money babysitting.


----------



## Part Timer (Jul 2, 2012)

mastercylinder said:


> I don't think anybody is "taking up" for her, Spirit. What she did was horrific, but what good does killing her do? Are we such a simple - minded people that we actually believe that killing is justice for killing?


You want her to have the ability to go out and have picnics on nice days and enjoy being outside instead of cooped up in her, i'm sure comfortable, mental house room, because "it might be good for her". I would say that is taking up for her. Fine don't kill her, but she should be held responsible. Not given picnics! In no way is that a punishment for the horrific things she did.


----------



## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

Part Timer said:


> You want her to have the ability to go out and have picnics on nice days and enjoy being outside instead of cooped up in her, i'm sure comfortable, mental house room. I would say that is taking up for her. Fine don't kill her, but she should be held responsible. Not given picnics! In no way is that a punishment for the horrific things she did.


Why punish the severely mentally ill? Again, what positive comes of that?


----------



## poppadawg (Aug 10, 2007)

Cuz it's fun?


----------



## big john o (Aug 12, 2005)

mastercylinder said:


> Why punish the severely mentally ill? Again, what positive comes of that?


Positive - If she is dead there is absolutely no potential for her to harm anyone else.


----------



## Part Timer (Jul 2, 2012)

mastercylinder said:


> Why punish the severely mentally ill? Again, what positive comes of that?


Severely mental ill?? Are you joking? That's mocking every parent out there that has a severely mental ill child.

She wasnt mentally ill when she was growing up, or when she got married, or had child 1, child 2, child 3, child 4, or even child 5!!

Pretty sure if she was "severely mentally ill" no hospital would let her take her child home. So she became "severely mentally ill" in 6 short months? The women had some hubby issues she couldnt handle. End of story. Ya a court found her mentally ill, a court also found OJ innocent. Stuff happens, and lawyers are good. She should at least rot in a cold dark cell, but i like sotexhookset's idea.


----------



## saltwatersensations (Aug 30, 2004)

mastercylinder said:


> I don't think anybody is "taking up" for her, Spirit. What she did was horrific, but what good does killing her do? The woman is very sick and are we such a simple - minded society that we actually believe that killing is justice for killing? What does that fix?


If I am not mistaken it saves the state and taxpayers money from having to house and feed an animal....


----------



## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

Part Timer said:


> Severely mental ill?? Are you joking? That's mocking every parent out there that has a severely mental ill child.
> 
> She wasnt mentally ill when she was growing up, or when she got married, or had child 1, child 2, child 3, child 4, or even child 5!!
> 
> Pretty sure if she was "severely mentally ill" no hospital would let her take her child home. The women had some hubby issues she couldnt handle. End of story. Ya a court found her mentally ill, a court also found OJ innocent. Stuff happens, and lawyers are good. She should at least rot in a cold dark cell, but i like sotexhookset's idea.


You obviously know nothing about mental illness.


----------



## Category6 (Nov 21, 2007)

I wasn't sticking up for her, I was just saying the husband should've fried too and as the man of the house he was as culpable for his inattention to her psychosis as she was...that's all. I also don't think normal folks have the capacity to wrap their minds around that type of evil or insanity or whatever it was, I know I can't and I'm glad I can't. Judgement will be passed eventually, not to worry.


----------



## Part Timer (Jul 2, 2012)

mastercylinder said:


> You obviously know nothing about mental illness.


Well you obviously have a massive expertise in being a troll on 2cool. How does it feel to wake up every day and say "i want to get on the internet just to irritate a vast majority of people on one site", or do you visit multiple sites per day?

And please tell me your level of knowledge on mental illness's and how fast they can develop? How many times did you wiki it before you became so educated on it? Are not all psychopaths mentally ill to an extent, if Yates is? Can't that be a the way out of prison for all murders? Give them all picnics! "it might be good for them" right?


----------



## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

redduck said:


> I do not care if she is mentally ill. She does not deserve to live.


This is the kind of mentality that disturbs me. Who gave you the authority to decide who lives or dies? Are you God?


----------



## Spirit (Nov 19, 2008)

mastercylinder said:


> I don't think anybody is "taking up" for her, Spirit. What she did was horrific, but what good does killing her do? The woman is very sick and are we such a simple - minded society that we actually believe that killing is justice for killing? What does that fix?


Punishment is what she deserved. Death ... women rarely get that in Texas but they normally get jail time for murder - this woman got neither.

She lives in an environment designed to "heal" - not punish - her for her crimes. She got away with murder and now she wants play days and picnics in the park to boot.

The cushy pampering of this murderer is as far from justice as my original spouting off was.


----------



## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

In what way is she receiving "cushy pampering?"


----------



## saltwatersensations (Aug 30, 2004)

mastercylinder said:


> This is the kind of mentality that disturbs me. Who gave you the authority to decide who lives or dies? Are you God?


Your kind of mentality concerns me. I say we bring back public hangings...There were a lot less criminals back when there were severe consequences for your actions. So I guess the two satanic kids that murdered that 15 yo girl a few weeks ago are mentally ill and should spend the next 60 years getting free room and board in an institution and go on "outings" as well

What if she killed 5 beautiful wild cougars?


----------



## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

saltwatersensations said:


> .There were a lot less criminals back when there were severe consequences for your actions.


And you know this how? Society has been mentally ill forever. Mental illness is not a new thing and punishment for crimes committed by the mentally ill has does nothing to cure their problems.


----------



## saltwatersensations (Aug 30, 2004)

She is nothing more than a murderer. Mentally ill or not. She is a proven danger to society and human life. There are plenty of other mentally ill people in this world who do not inflict pain or death upon others. Their outings and life assistant does not bother me. Like stated before If you have it in you to take another life, you have to be some kind of mentally ill. Who are you or anyone else to say that one is more deserving of being institutionalized than the death penalty?


----------



## The1ThatGotAway (Jun 24, 2009)

mastercylinder said:


> And you know this how? Society has been mentally ill forever. Mental illness is not a new thing and punishment for crimes committed by the mentally ill has does nothing to cure their problems.


Hey look, it's the resident devil's advocate...


----------



## Ernest (May 21, 2004)

No, violent crimes were committed in greater rates (per 1000 people) in the old days. The murder rate in colonial times was significantly higher than it is today. 

We hung horse thieves because the crime was frequent and we desired to stop it, not because the crime was rare or infrequent. 

Public hangings would be the worst thing, the absolute worst thing, for those that favor capital punishment. The American public would end capital punishment in no time if they actually watched it as a public display.


----------



## flashlight (Jul 9, 2007)

I was at that scene on that horrible day. I will have the images of those kids laying there burned in my memory for the rest of my life. Having said that, I honestly believe for someone to do that to there kids and having no emotion on that day had to be mentally ill.
But, should she be punished for it? I honestly don't know. I am glad that I wasn't the one to have to decide that one. That is an awfully tough decision.


----------



## saltwatersensations (Aug 30, 2004)

Ernest said:


> No, violent crimes were committed in greater rates (per 1000 people) in the old days. The murder rate in colonial times was significantly higher than it is today.
> 
> We hung horse thieves because the crime was frequent and we desired to stop it, not because the crime was rare or infrequent.
> 
> Public hangings would be the worst thing, the absolute worst thing, for those that favor capital punishment. The American public would end capital punishment in no time if they actually watched it as a public display.


Probably very true in this day and time.

Were there less horse thieves after they were hung for their crimes?


----------



## Category6 (Nov 21, 2007)

We should probably all just table this discussion, there are philosophical differences of opinion here that will never be resolved on here or anywhere else. I don't know who's right, and frankly neither does anyone else on this earth.


----------



## saltwatersensations (Aug 30, 2004)

Category5 said:


> We should probably all just table this discussion, there are philosophical differences of opinion here that will never be resolved on here or anywhere else. I don't know who's right, and frankly neither does anyone else on this earth.


I agree.


----------



## sharkchum (Feb 10, 2012)

If any of you had to deal with a family member suffering from mental illness you would have a different opinion. Mental illness is no different than cancer. I have first hand experience with this, so I'll have to agree with Mastercylinder.


----------



## MarkU (Jun 3, 2013)

God gets to judge who gets into heaven. We are to judge our brothers actions. Read Paul, if you want the religious view. Or review our current judiciary rules, such as a "jury". Mentally ill or not, her crimes equal the death penalty. What purpose does it serve to heal her mental condition? Do you want her released back out in our world? As soon as a few Dr.'s think she's been healed? Don't give me the response, by healing her, we could stop others from doing the same thing.. That answer would be as flawed as handing out ADD drugs to every other kid. Who won't focus on their homework. 
Punishment should fit the crime. They missed the ball on this one.


----------



## w_r_ranch (Jan 14, 2005)

mastercylinder said:


> The woman is mentally ill. Too many people in 2cool seem to just like the idea of killing.


Some people just need killing... she is one of them.


----------



## Outearly (Nov 17, 2009)

MarkU said:


> God gets to judge who gets into heaven. We are to judge our brothers actions. Read Paul, if you want the religious view. Or review our current judiciary rules, such as a "jury". Mentally ill or not, her crimes equal the death penalty. What purpose does it serve to heal her mental condition? Do you want her released back out in our world? As soon as a few Dr.'s think she's been healed? Don't give me the response, by healing her, we could stop others from doing the same thing.. That answer would be as flawed as handing out ADD drugs to every other kid. Who won't focus on their homework.
> Punishment should fit the crime. They missed the ball on this one.


"Don't give me the response, by healing her, we could stop others from doing the same thing" -- That appears to be the case. Since Andrea Yates, treatment and the recognition of the need for treatment for postpartum psychosis has improved.

As far as "they missed the ball on this one"... that was a jury of Texans, just like us, that found her not guilty by reason of insanity.

In the original trial, after the jury was sent in to deliberate, the prosecution expert realized he had made a huge mistake (the mistaken statement that Andrea Yates had watched a crime TV show about a woman killing her kids and getting off) and tried to get the judge to inform the jury that he was wrong.


----------



## mas360 (Nov 21, 2006)

sharkchum said:


> If any of you had to deal with a family member suffering from mental illness you would have a different opinion. Mental illness is no different than cancer. I have first hand experience with this, so I'll have to agree with Mastercylinder.


True statement. 
No one really knows it until they walk a few miles in that pair of boots. It drastically changes one's mind about mental illness. Not long ago mental illness was perceived as witchcraft and the punishment was horrific. Today, there is better clinical understanding of the illness and mentally ill patient are perceived with much less fear and hatred by the general public.

Couple of decades ago there was a case of a very wealthy oil executive's wife in Pasadena Texas killing her one and only young child. 
She saw the headlight of a car passing by, which was a message from "God" telling her to end her child's life to save him. She stabbed her toddler to death with a kitchen knife and then called her husband matter-of-factly telling him she had carried out "God"'s instruction.

Unlike the recently arrested Craigslist murderers, a married couple, who lured lonely men into death trap for them to kill just for the joy of killing these two mentally ill women, who killed their children in their delusional state of mind, deserve rehab more than death sentence justice. It is a very tragic tragedy but it would do the children no good to kill their mother for their revenge on the account of her illness, which she had no control over.


----------



## Category6 (Nov 21, 2007)

redirect to post #85


----------



## Spirit (Nov 19, 2008)

sharkchum said:


> If any of you had to deal with a family member suffering from mental illness you would have a different opinion. Mental illness is no different than cancer. I have first hand experience with this, so I'll have to agree with Mastercylinder.


Having a mental illness does not mean that you should not be held responsible for killing five people!! Not many people blame cancer for making them kill their children. Bad analogy.


----------



## Category6 (Nov 21, 2007)

spirit said:


> Having a mental illness does not mean that you should not be held responsible for killing five people!! Not many people blame cancer for making them kill their children. Bad analogy.


You are narrow minded and additionally missed his point...again refer to post #85


----------



## Spirit (Nov 19, 2008)

Category5 said:


> You are narrow minded and additionally missed his point...again refer to post #85


And you are judgmental, I got his point. And imo, its total BS. I was just trying to be nice.

Now that we are through with observations about each other and my mental acumen to comprehend posts, I will continue posting if I so choose no matter how authoritative you think your post #85 is.

Where is that darn Jr. Mod. badge?


----------



## Category6 (Nov 21, 2007)

spirit said:


> And you are judgmental, I got his point. And imo, its total BS. I was just trying to be nice.
> 
> Now that we are through with observations about each other and my mental acumen to comprehend posts, I will continue posting if I so choose no matter how authoritative you think your post #85 is.
> 
> Where is that darn Jr. Mod. badge?


Peace and love, peace and love...


----------



## sharkchum (Feb 10, 2012)

â€œMany that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement.â€
J.R.R. Tolkien


----------



## Ernest (May 21, 2004)

You know, some nights when I come home from work, my pup has done something bad earlier in the day. Stuff that I would punish him for doing, if I had observed the conduct and could respond immediately. 

But, given his limited cognitive abilities, punishing him hours after the fact does not teach him any lesson other than that I am a cruel master. He is incapable of connecting the punishment he is receiving to the prior bad actions. 

If I punish him, notwithstanding his inability to understand why he is being punished, that just makes me a sadist. I am punishing him, not for his benefit, not as a lesson to him, not as a means to deter him from doing it in the future, but for my own benefit. 

I would suggest its much the same with the mentally ill or developmentally disabled. The punishment serves no purpose other than to make the people doing the punishing feel "better" in a sadistic sense or better in the "I am God, this one deserves death" sort of way.


----------



## MarkU (Jun 3, 2013)

So now we have analogies of a cancer patient, and a rogue puppy chewing something up. To compare someone who murdered her children...

Quick question for the puppy/cancer posters. Is abortion murder? (If you're reaching for straws, so can I.)


----------



## Gottagofishin (Dec 17, 2005)

We lived in Clear Lake when this happened and had childeren at home. Mrs. GGF was horrified and outraged like many of us. I think for Mothers it's probably even worse than for Fathers. It's that Mama tiger protecting her cubs thing. 

I remember something she said. It was to the effect that she knew that woman had to be certifiably insane to do that to her kids, and that it scared the hell out of her that being that insane was even possible, and could happen to any of us.

Andrea Yates is a living reminder that it could happen to us or someone we know, and it still scares the hell out of us.


----------



## big john o (Aug 12, 2005)

You people who are defending this woman because she is crazy.. would you be so forgiving if she killed your 5 kids?


----------



## Texican89 (Oct 27, 2009)

I say kill her. 

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk


----------



## sharkchum (Feb 10, 2012)

big john o said:


> You people who are defending this woman because she is crazy.. would you be so forgiving if she killed your 5 kids?


Would you be so condemning if she was your daughter, suffering from mental illness. Three years ago I would have agreed with you 100%, but after seeing first hand what mental problems can do to a person, I'm not so sure. I never knew mental illness was that big of a deal in till it struck my family and destroyed my life. It doesn't discriminate between rich or poor, black or white, it can happen to you or me just as easily as anyone else.


----------



## big john o (Aug 12, 2005)

sharkchum said:


> Would you be so condemning if she was your daughter, suffering from mental illness. Three years ago I would have agreed with you 100%, but after seeing first hand what mental problems can do to a person, I'm not so sure. I never knew mental illness was that big of a deal in till it struck my family and destroyed my life. It doesn't discriminate between rich or poor, black or white, it can happen to you or me just as easily as anyone else.


Being mentally ill is one thing, killing 5 children is another


----------



## photofishin (Aug 7, 2009)

sharkchum said:


> Would you be so condemning if she was your daughter, suffering from mental illness. Three years ago I would have agreed with you 100%, but after seeing first hand what mental problems can do to a person, I'm not so sure. I never knew mental illness was that big of a deal in till it struck my family and destroyed my life. It doesn't discriminate between rich or poor, black or white, it can happen to you or me just as easily as anyone else.


Sorry but the term "mentally ill" does NOT eliminate the heinous crime this woman committed. Osama Bin Laden was "mentally ill" per some of the comments here. Only the death penalty stops the illness from being passed on. Treating this woman the same as you would a mentally handicapped child who has *Cerebral Palsy* is ridiculous at best no matter HOW you justify it.


----------



## sharkchum (Feb 10, 2012)

I'm not trying to defend her, and like everyone else I agree that anyone that kills a child should be put to death. All I'm saying is if your daughter killed her kids because she was insane, would you still want her to get the death penalty, or would you want her to get help. No one can answer this question in less it has happen to them.


----------



## photofishin (Aug 7, 2009)

sharkchum said:


> I'm not trying to defend her, and like everyone else I agree that anyone that kills a child should be put to death. All I'm saying is if your daughter killed her kids because she was insane, would you still want her to get the death penalty, or would you want her to get help. No one can answer this question in less it has happen to them.


 It doesn't matter if it were MY daughter, YOUR daughter or the Pope's daughter...the act she committed was pure evil...period. That WON'T go away with a few antidepressants and a counseling session.


----------



## poppadawg (Aug 10, 2007)

Interesting debate. If you had a drooling idiot that had no idea where he was, or why he was there, or that he is was going to be killed, do you still kill him?


----------



## mas360 (Nov 21, 2006)

photofishin said:


> It doesn't matter if it were MY daughter, YOUR daughter or the Pope's daughter...the act she committed was pure evil...period. That WON'T go away with a few antidepressants and a counseling session.


God forbid, if you yourself happen to come down with mental illness and kill a child, would you stand up and tell the world to go ahead and execute you or would you be begging for mercy and treatment? Does executing you at that point bring the dead child back to life? will it deter other mentally ill people from killing while in delusional state?

Yes, mental illness can take place out of the blue. I had seen it with my own eyes and personally knew the person. No, it definitely does not go away with anti-depressants and counseling session. Once you get it the chance is you'd have it for the rest of your life. The lucky ones still have enough sense to accept that he/she has the problem and stick with treatment plan would be able to keep it under control (not fixed) and marginally function. The majority denies having the problem and most refuse treatment, which leads into further delusions.


----------



## photofishin (Aug 7, 2009)

poppadawg said:


> Interesting debate. If you had a drooling idiot that had no idea where he was, or why he was there, or that is was going to be killed, do you still kill him?


 if he brutally murdered 5 children, yes, without a doubt. Permanent therapy.


----------



## photofishin (Aug 7, 2009)

mas360 said:


> God forbid, if you yourself happen to come down with mental illness and kill a child, would you stand up and tell the world to go ahead and execute you or would you be begging for mercy and treatment?
> 
> Yes, mental illness can take place out of the blue. I had seen it with my own eyes and personally knew the person. No, it definitely does not go away with anti-depressants and counseling session. Once you get it the chance is you'd have it for the rest of your life. The lucky ones still have enough sense to accept that he/she has the problem and stick with treatment plan would be able to keep it under control (not fixed) and marginally function. The majority denies having the problem and most refuse treatment, which leads into further delusions.


 My response proposes a permanent solution. Your solution pushes this problem on to every person the killer touches for as long as they live.


----------



## poppadawg (Aug 10, 2007)

Gottagofishin said:


> We lived in Clear Lake when this happened and had childeren at home. Mrs. GGF was horrified and outraged like many of us. I think for Mothers it's probably even worse than for Fathers. It's that Mama tiger protecting her cubs thing.
> 
> I remember something she said. It was to the effect that she knew that woman had to be certifiably insane to do that to her kids, and that it scared the hell out of her that being that insane was even possible, and could happen to any of us.
> 
> Andrea Yates is a living reminder that it could happen to us or someone we know, and it still scares the hell out of us.


This is very well said.


----------



## sharkchum (Feb 10, 2012)

Sometimes mentally ill people don't show any signs of a problem in till they snap. A few years ago a man I know lost his job,came home, talked to his family like there wasn't a problem in the world, went to his bedroom closet and put his .38 in his mouth. He left a note saying he had lost his job and didn't know what to do so he killed his self. Stuff like this happens daily. No one can say what they would do in a traumatic situation in till it happens to them. Look at all the battered women that have snapped and killed there husbands after years of abuse, or husbands that have caught there wife's cheating on them and kill them on the spot. Most of us like to believe that we are strong enough to deal with things in a sane matter. But if you came home to find your house burnt to the ground with your whole family in side would you be able to deal with it, or would you put a gun in your mouth. No one know's in till it happens to them.


----------



## Spirit (Nov 19, 2008)

sharkchum said:


> Would you be so condemning if she was your daughter, suffering from mental illness. Three years ago I would have agreed with you 100%, but after seeing first hand what mental problems can do to a person, I'm not so sure. I never knew mental illness was that big of a deal in till it struck my family and destroyed my life. It doesn't discriminate between rich or poor, black or white, it can happen to you or me just as easily as anyone else.


I know you have had battles with your daughter that many don't have to deal with, and I empathize with you and have worried about your daughters well being.

Andrea's situation had nothing to do with mental illness. She played the system and won. No punishment for the murder of her children ... and she is out of her marriage. Win, win for her. A couple of more years and a few play dates in the park and she will be a free woman.


----------



## photofishin (Aug 7, 2009)

poppadawg said:


> This is very well said.


 I disagree...one doesn't just "accidentally trip" and murder 5 children. One doesn't just wake up insane. It's a process that many times takes several years. Regardless, the act of murder is by nature, an insane act. ANYBODY can be considered insane if they plan out and kill someone. That DOESN'T negate the act itself. The act of premeditated murder requires justice. Letting Yates go on picnics is NOT justice in any shape of the imagination.


----------



## MarkU (Jun 3, 2013)

A lot of good comments. Also a lot of, "what ifs". Interesting read, and I do see some alternate ways of looking at this. I'm still sticking to my view, she should be dead. But different strokes for different folks. That's what makes the world go around.


----------



## poppadawg (Aug 10, 2007)

photofishin said:


> I disagree...one doesn't just "accidentally trip" and murder 5 children. One doesn't just wake up insane. It's a process that many times takes several years. Regardless, the act of murder is by nature, an insane act. ANYBODY can be considered insane if they plan out and kill someone. That DOESN'T negate the act itself. The act of premeditated murder requires justice. Letting Yates go on picnics is NOT justice in any shape of the imagination.


 Punishment aside. Killing a child goes against ever molecule of human existance. Period. If thats not crazy, there is no such thing as crazy.


----------



## Spirit (Nov 19, 2008)

poppadawg said:


> Punishment aside. Killing a child goes against ever molecule of human existance. Period. If thats not crazy, there is no such thing as crazy.


So by that logic - every child killer in America suffers from mental illness and should walk the same as Andrea.


----------



## Timemachine (Nov 25, 2008)

mastercylinder said:


> Dang, rough crowd. The woman is mentally ill. Too many people in 2cool seem to just like the idea of killing. Some outings would probably be good for her.


She murdered 5 little kids, one at a time while the others ran around the house screaming for their lives. WHY IS THIS WOMAN still alive. MC, you are so right, she IS mentally ill and will NEVER be normal. The death penalty is ALL SHE DESERVES.....nothing more!!


----------



## sharkchum (Feb 10, 2012)

spirit said:


> I know you have had battles with your daughter that many don't have to deal with, and I empathize with you and have worried about your daughters well being.
> 
> Andrea's situation had nothing to do with mental illness. She played the system and won. No punishment for the murder of her children ... and she is out of her marriage. Win, win for her. A couple of more years and a few play dates in the park and she will be a free woman.


Your probably right, there are a lot of people the play the system and get away scott free, and it makes me sick. Like I said before, I'm not trying to defend her, but you have to admit that a "sane" rational thinking person would never harm a child, let alone kill five of them. I used to think that people that claimed to have mental problems were just weak and used it as and excuse to play the system or to get attention, but when it hits close to home, it kind of changes your way of thinking.


----------



## poppadawg (Aug 10, 2007)

spirit said:


> So by that logic - every child killer in America suffers from mental illness and should walk the same as Andrea.


We are hard wired to love and protect our children. A mother that would kill her own young children to save them from Satan is undoubtably insane. How can any parent debate that?


----------



## mas360 (Nov 21, 2006)

photofishin said:


> My response proposes a permanent solution. Your solution pushes this problem on to every person the killer touches for as long as they live.


I have to agree with you on that count.

If our societal moral is simply to exterminate sick people same way we do to cattle, your method definitely fits in.

However, I am glad and proud that our nation and our society have advanced enough to no longer burning the witches (mental patients) as it used to be and therefore no longer uphold that moral value. We seek to cure or at the least to control the sickness in mentally ill patient instead of simple summary execution. Medical sciences have able to find chemical imbalances causing some mental illness, but medical sciences have yet to find a permanent cure. Currently chemical treatment is only able to keep delusions under control in many patients.

By the way your response did not address the case where YOU YOURSELF fell mentally ill and commit the crime. Would you honestly say that you'd tell society to go ahead and summarily excute you same way you'd do with Yates?


----------



## mas360 (Nov 21, 2006)

spirit said:


> So by that logic - every child killer in America suffers from mental illness and should walk the same as Andrea.


No, each case has its individual merits. In many cases the criminals use the insanity defense to get away with murders. The recent married couple who advertised on Craigslist to lure lonely men into their trap for them to kill for kicks is one good example.


----------



## Jamie_Lee (Oct 28, 2010)

If I were to ever have a sudden mental break down and kill all of my children one by one, go ahead and take me out of this world. I don't care what kind of 'treatment' they could offer me. I'd rather be dead.


----------



## sharkchum (Feb 10, 2012)

Jamie_Lee said:


> If I were to ever have a sudden mental break down and kill all of my children one by one, go ahead and take me out of this world. I don't care what kind of 'treatment' they could offer me. I'd rather be dead.


 I would have to agree with you, I don't think I could live with myself, and I can't believe Yates hasn't killed herself for what she's done. It's easy for me to say that now, but if I was really mentally ill, there is no telling how I would think.


----------



## Spirit (Nov 19, 2008)

mas360 said:


> No, each case has its individual merits. In many cases the criminals use the insanity defense to get away with murders. The recent married couple who advertised on Craigslist to lure lonely men into their trap for them to kill for kicks is one good example.


Like Andrea Yates did. The first jury saw through her ruse. My complaint was with the comment you have to be crazy to kill a kid. That is excusing the behavior of people who kill children. She wasn't crazy, she was cruel.


----------



## photofishin (Aug 7, 2009)

mas360 said:


> I have to agree with you on that count.
> 
> If our societal moral is simply to exterminate sick people same way we do to cattle, your method definitely fits in.
> 
> ...


 In a sense, I, myself have recovered from a mental disease...alcoholism. (28 years sober this past week) If I killed someone while in a blackout drunk, I'd be just as liable for that death as if I were totally sober when it happened and AS SUCH, if the law allowed it, subject to the same penalty.
Being drunk or insane does NOT excuse the act. The ACT is what needs restitution, not the individual...especially in Yates case.


----------



## Spirit (Nov 19, 2008)

photofishin said:


> In a sense, I, myself have recovered from a mental disease...alcoholism. (28 years sober this past week) If I killed someone while in a blackout drunk, I'd be just as liable for that death as if I were totally sober when it happened and AS SUCH, if the law allowed it, subject to the same penalty.
> Being drunk or insane does NOT excuse the act. The ACT is what needs restitution, not the individual...especially in Yates case.


^^^^^ THIS!!!

And congrats on the 28 years!!


----------



## Spooley (Feb 24, 2013)

Everyone dies eventually. There is a Heaven and there is a hell. Only Jesus can save a person from the penalty of their sins: past, present, and future, any and all of them no matter how wicked or evil. 

Jesus also said that we are to abide by the laws of the nations. If the courts would enforce the law, then no debate would be necessary or possible. 

As for mercy because of supposed insanity, not debatable. 

Get the rope.


----------



## poppadawg (Aug 10, 2007)

Jamie_Lee said:


> If I were to ever have a sudden mental break down and kill all of my children one by one, go ahead and take me out of this world. I don't care what kind of 'treatment' they could offer me. I'd rather be dead.


I agree. Sanity would be the hashest possible punishment.


----------



## mas360 (Nov 21, 2006)

photofishin said:


> In a sense, I, myself have recovered from a mental disease...alcoholism. (28 years sober this past week) If I killed someone while in a blackout drunk, I'd be just as liable for that death as if I were totally sober when it happened and AS SUCH, if the law allowed it, subject to the same penalty.
> Being drunk or insane does NOT excuse the act. The ACT is what needs restitution, not the individual...especially in Yates case.


Congratulations for the 28 years you stay sober.

There is a huge difference between alcoholism and psychosis. Alcoholism is by choice while psychosis is not. Alcoholism is a behaviorial addiction and there is cure for it if the addict is willing to get rid of it. Psychosis is NOT an addiction and there is truly no permanent cure. All available medication at this point is only capable to contain and slow down its severity.


----------



## kweber (Sep 20, 2005)

extreme religious beliefs have led to a lot of death throughout history...
I am Christian, but look back thru time... lotsa wars and mayham because of religion... (several versions )
recently a snake-handling preacher in Kentucky died from snakebite...
the Middle East and religious clashes have been happening for 2 millenea...
now add mental illness and extreme religious beliefs...24hr news coverage and 7 billion population... well the odds are we're gonna hear about a lot of sick stuff.
God bless those poor kids.
if she ever regains her sanity, she's gonna haveta live in her own personal Hell.
MC and Earnst made many valid posts...


----------



## photofishin (Aug 7, 2009)

mas360 said:


> Congratulations for the 28 years you stay sober.
> 
> There is a huge difference between alcoholism and psychosis. Alcoholism is by choice while psychosis is not. Alcoholism is a behaviorial addiction and there is cure for it if the addict is willing to get rid of it. Psychosis is NOT an addiction and there is truly no permanent cure. All available medication at this point is only capable to contain and slow down its severity.


 I suggest you look up alcoholism. It IS a disease and there IS no permanent cure other than not drinking. 
Getting rid of Yates IS a permanent cure of HER psychosis. The mental insanity defense for premeditated murder should NEVER be an option. The act of murder is so heinous, the ONLY options which should be considered for crimes like Yates committed should be life in jail or death. Not a waltz in a psychiatric facility for a couple of years and then back to freedom


----------



## mas360 (Nov 21, 2006)

spirit said:


> Like Andrea Yates did. The first jury saw through her ruse. My complaint was with the comment you have to be crazy to kill a kid. That is excusing the behavior of people who kill children. She wasn't crazy, she was cruel.


Cruelty is not a behavior one would acquire in a matter of a day or a month. A cruel person has that trait in him/her from early age.

I don't recall any investigation report mentioning of Andrea Yates being a cruel person to other people or even to animals prior to the homicide. If she indeed had police records of burning animals or starving her children or abusing other persons...etc...I certainly would agree with you that she deserves death sentence.


----------



## Spirit (Nov 19, 2008)

mas360 said:


> Congratulations for the 28 years you stay sober.
> 
> There is a huge difference between alcoholism and psychosis. Alcoholism is by choice while psychosis is not. Alcoholism is a behaviorial addiction and there is cure for it if the addict is willing to get rid of it. Psychosis is NOT an addiction and there is truly no permanent cure. All available medication at this point is only capable to contain and slow down its severity.


This is nothing but pure recycled vegetation from a bull! You need to do a little research on alcoholism before you make such bold assertions.


----------



## Spirit (Nov 19, 2008)

mas360 said:


> Cruelty is not a behavior one would acquire in a matter of a day or a month. A cruel person has that trait in him/her from early age.
> 
> I don't recall any investigation report mentioning of Andrea Yates being a cruel person to other people or even to animals prior to the homicide. If she indeed had police records of burning animals or starving her children or abusing other persons...etc...I certainly would agree with you that she deserves death sentence.


Apparently you didn't read that her dead daughter was floating in the bathtub when she forced her oldest in and drowned him as he fought with her. That isn't cruel?

I said death penalty OR life imprisonment. She got off with no punishment of any kind.


----------



## photofishin (Aug 7, 2009)

mas360 said:


> Cruelty is not a behavior one would acquire in a matter of a day or a month. A cruel person has that trait in him/her from early age.
> 
> I don't recall any investigation report mentioning of Andrea Yates being a cruel person to other people or even to animals prior to the homicide. If she indeed had police records of burning animals or starving her children or abusing other persons...etc...I certainly would agree with you that she deserves death sentence.


 I personally don't care if she was a caring as the Pope BEFORE killing her children. The fact remains that she absolutely, without a shred of doubt, brutally killed each of her children.


----------



## mas360 (Nov 21, 2006)

photofishin said:


> I suggest you look up alcoholism. It IS a disease and there IS no permanent cure other than not drinking.
> Getting rid of Yates IS a permanent cure of HER psychosis. The mental insanity defense for premeditated murder should NEVER be an option. The act of murder is so heinous, the ONLY options which should be considered for crimes like Yates committed should be life in jail or death. Not a waltz in a psychiatric facility for a couple of years and then back to freedom


I looked it up as you suggested and here is what I found:

_In 1956 the American Medical Association voted to define alcoholism as a medically treatable disease so that such treatment by physicians would become eligible for payment from third parties (insurance companies). The decision was not made on the basis of any analysis of the scientific evidence -- it was made on self-serving economic grounds._

http://www2.potsdam.edu/alcohol/Controversies/Is-Alcoholism-a-Disease.html#.UwUJEvldU1I


----------



## misbhavn (Nov 19, 2010)

I'd have no problem if they fired up ol' sparky on her and forgot to wet the sponge.


----------



## mas360 (Nov 21, 2006)

photofishin said:


> I personally don't care if she was a caring as the Pope BEFORE killing her children. The fact remains that she absolutely, without a shred of doubt, brutally killed each of her children.


The Pope only cares about the Pope and his empire.....otherwise all those pedophile priests would not have been shielded for so many decades...:rotfl:


----------



## Gottagofishin (Dec 17, 2005)

photofishin said:


> *I suggest you look up alcoholism. It IS a disease and there IS no permanent cure other than not drinking.*
> Getting rid of Yates IS a permanent cure of HER psychosis. The mental insanity defense for premeditated murder should NEVER be an option. The act of murder is so heinous, the ONLY options which should be considered for crimes like Yates committed should be life in jail or death. Not a waltz in a psychiatric facility for a couple of years and then back to freedom


And getting rid of you would be a permanent cure for your alcoholism. That way there is no possibility of you having a relapse, getting behind the wheel, and killing someone.

I know that's silly, but this whole thing is silly IMO. There is no "right" or "justice" to be had here. Just varying degrees of tragedy and pain depending on your perspective.

I'm not defending anyone, but no one is going to fix this situation and putting her to death won't keep the next delusionally insane person from performing some horrific act.

Like it or not, a jury of us, after hearing the evidence rendered their verdict. God will render his one day.

In the meantime, hug your kids and grandkids. And if you see someone you know slipping into a dark place, get them some help before it's too late. That's about the only good that will ever come out of this.


----------



## bk005 (Feb 23, 2005)

If she is really that crazy why does she need to go on an outing, if its an incurable mental illness, what is the point. Is it not cruel to keep her in a cage, would euthanasia be more polite. It sounds better when you talk like a European. 

Heck giver her a box of rocks, some wire coat hangers and tell her to go nuts.


----------



## Spirit (Nov 19, 2008)

mas360 said:


> I looked it up as you suggested and here is what I found:
> 
> _In 1956 the American Medical Association voted to define alcoholism as a medically treatable disease so that such treatment by physicians would become eligible for payment from third parties (insurance companies). The decision was not made on the basis of any analysis of the scientific evidence -- it was made on self-serving economic grounds._
> 
> http://www2.potsdam.edu/alcohol/Controversies/Is-Alcoholism-a-Disease.html#.UwUJEvldU1I


LOL!!! Try finding a little more recent info. We have come a long way in ALL medical treatments and definitions since 1956.

Get real.


----------



## poppadawg (Aug 10, 2007)

spirit said:


> Apparently you didn't read that her dead daughter was floating in the bathtub when she forced her oldest in and drowned him as he fought with her. That isn't cruel?
> 
> .


You don't consider that insane? What was her motive? In your opinion is it possible for a child killing mother to be insane?


----------



## Spirit (Nov 19, 2008)

poppadawg said:


> You don't consider that insane? What was her motive? In your opinion is it possible for a child killing mother to be insane?


Sure. Anyone male or female can be. Her motive was to escape the living hell she created with her marriage and children. She didn't care about anyone or anything but her own selfish self. Still doesn't .. or she wouldn't be asking to go on outings. She obviously still feels entitled with no remorse for her actions. Plotting a way to escape a marriage is not insanity ... people kill spouses and children to escape their choices in life every day. That does not make them crazy or insane. It makes them cold and calculating killers.


----------



## mas360 (Nov 21, 2006)

spirit said:


> LOL!!! Try finding a little more recent info. We have come a long way in ALL medical treatments and definitions since 1956.
> 
> Get real.


You should learn to read and comprehend the entire write up instead of glancing through a few lines and running off your mouth with down right idiotic statement.


----------



## poppadawg (Aug 10, 2007)

spirit said:


> Sure. Anyone male or female can be. Her motive was to escape the living hell she created with her marriage and children. She didn't care about anyone or anything but her own selfish self. Still doesn't .. or she wouldn't be asking to go on outings. She obviously still feels entitled with no remorse for her actions. Plotting a way to escape a marriage is not insanity ... people kill spouses and children to escape their choices in life every day. That does not make them crazy or insane. It makes them cold and calculating killers.


Wouldn't it have been a little easier just to leave?


----------



## sharkchum (Feb 10, 2012)

poppadawg said:


> You don't consider that insane? What was her motive? In your opinion is it possible for a child killing mother to be insane?


 The motive is what has me thinking the way I do, she had no motive. Some of you may remember several years ago, there was a mother that put her 3 kids in the car and drove it into the water and drowned them, because her new boyfriend didn't like kids. Or the one recently where the woman killed her daughter and buried her body, because she wanted freedom to be able to go party. These women had a motive, although very deranged, for doing what they did. And afterwards they had remorse, but they planed the killings. I never remember a motive in the Yates case, but I do remember that she had been suffering from depression for years and no one tried to get her help. And just for the fact that she has never felt remorse for what she did makes me believe she is really insane. And I also don't believe that she sat down and planned it all out, she just snapped.


----------



## Spirit (Nov 19, 2008)

mas360 said:


> You should learn to read and comprehend the entire write up instead of glancing through a few lines and running off your mouth with down right idiotic statement.


Its more fun to run my mouth. lol

The link wouldn't work for me ... I could just read what you wrote and its seemed you were really stretching to prove your point by going all the way back to a 1956 medical statement to try and justify the comment you made in the first place.


----------



## mas360 (Nov 21, 2006)

sharkchum said:


> The motive is what has me thinking the way I do, she had no motive. Some of you may remember several years ago, there was a mother that put her 3 kids in the car and drove it into the water and drowned them, because her new boyfriend didn't like kids. Or the one recently where the woman killed her daughter and buried her body, because she wanted freedom to be able to go party. These women had a motive, although very deranged, for doing what they did. And afterwards they had remorse, but they planed the killings. I never remember a motive in the Yates case, but I do remember that she had been suffering from depression for years and no one tried to get her help. And just for the fact that she has never felt remorse for what she did makes me believe she is really insane. And I also don't believe that she sat down and planned it all out, she just snapped.


According to what I read she had depression for few years before the homicide took place. The post partum blue appeared to be the final nail on the coffin. 
I have no sympathy for those other two women you pointed out above. They had self-serving motives. 
Andrea Yates was emotionless after the homicide and in court.


----------



## Spirit (Nov 19, 2008)

poppadawg said:


> Wouldn't it have been a little easier just to leave?


Its always easier to leave, but look how many men kill their partner and children rather than doing just that or letting the woman and kids stay gone once they make the move. You read it in the news all the time. They aren't adjudicated mentally ill. The only reason Andrea got to use such a bogus excuse is she is female and that is so wrong.

Maybe she killed the kids to spite her husband. He is the one who insisted she go off her meds and have the last baby. Who knows ... but I'll never buy that she just snapped. That is too far fetched.


----------



## photofishin (Aug 7, 2009)

Gottagofishin said:


> no one is going to fix this situation and putting her to death won't keep the next delusionally insane person from performing some horrific act.


No, but in Yates case, if she someday is legally considered "sane", she'll be let out of prison free as a bird. Nothing would stop her from committing the same sort of crime again.

Just so you know, the words "justification" and "rationalization" are two words equivalent of lying to oneself. No matter how you justify her "insanity", she committed 5 premeditated acts of MURDER against her own children. THAT needs penance.


----------



## sharkchum (Feb 10, 2012)

mas360 said:


> According to what I read she had depression for few years before the homicide took place. The post partum blue appeared to be the final nail on the coffin.
> I have no sympathy for those other two women you pointed out above. They had self-serving motives.
> Andrea Yates was emotionless after the homicide and in court.


 My thoughts exactly. Her husband was just as responsible as her. just weeks before this happened her doctor told Russel not to leave her alone, and he did it any way. He worked down the street from me, and we would have lunch at the same places, after the murders I would see him come in to eat with his co-workers, laughing and joking like he didn't have a care in the world. If my children were killed I don't think I could ever laugh again.


----------



## Gottagofishin (Dec 17, 2005)

photofishin said:


> No, but in Yates case, if she someday is legally considered "sane", she'll be let out of prison free as a bird. Nothing would stop her from committing the same sort of crime again.
> 
> Just so you know, the words "justification" and "rationalization" are two words equivalent of lying to oneself. No matter how you justify her "insanity", she committed 5 premeditated acts of MURDER against her own children. THAT needs penance.


Whether I agree with the Jury's verdict or not is beside the point. I didn't hear the evidence or have to make that decision, so I won't second guess.

I'm not the one trying to rationalize executing her in the name of justice. Whose justice? What justice? There is no justice in this.

Let's be honest about what this. This isn't about justice. This is about fear and an inability to comprehend how this could happen. What do we do when we fear something we don't understand?

We destroy it. We kill it. It's part of our survival instinct.

There's no judgement in that. But let's at least be honest about what it is and not rationalize it in the name of justice.

If you can live with that then so can I.


----------



## Spirit (Nov 19, 2008)

Gottagofishin said:


> Whether I agree with the Jury's verdict or not is beside the point. I didn't hear the evidence or have to make that decision, so I won't second guess.
> 
> I'm not the one trying to rationalize executing her in the name of justice. Whose justice? What justice? There is no justice in this.
> 
> ...


It is 100% about justice. Its about making the guilty party pay their debt to society for what they did. This woman, regardless of her excuse, killed five human beings. Justice calls for the person who killed them to be punished. Period. The whole problem with this case is there was ZERO justice - this woman murdered those children and got rewarded for her behavior. That is sickening. She has been a pampered pooch, sucking off the taxpayers for years as her "punishment". Had justice been served, we would not be having this discussion. Because Miss High and Mighty would not be asking for special favors of fun days in the park for picnics to bring it about - she'd be in a jail cell where she belongs.


----------



## photofishin (Aug 7, 2009)

Gottagofishin said:


> Whether I agree with the Jury's verdict or not is beside the point. I didn't hear the evidence or have to make that decision, so I won't second guess.
> 
> I'm not the one trying to rationalize executing her in the name of justice. Whose justice? What justice? There is no justice in this.
> 
> ...


 We're not talking about IF she killed all 5 of her kids...she did it, period. No fear about it...this is a simple situation of people pretending somehow she can be a productive member of society. I say she gave up that right when she drowned her 5 children.
The only rationalizations here I see are those justifying why she should still be breathing.


----------



## capt. david (Dec 29, 2004)

Wow 156 post later! Bottom line in all this is 5 innocent children lost their life, no fault of their own. The ones that were suppose to protect them failed! Should she be able to go out in the general public, NO! Wonder how she would react seeing moms with children? Most insane person I have read about has to be Charley Manson. Where is he and all his followers now? Her attorney did his job very well, sad to say. Should she have been sentenced to death? I am glad I have never been placed into making that decision. Will she ever reach the Kingdom of GOD, not for me to judge. I do believe that when she chased the oldest child, she KNEW what she was doing. Hopefully she never sees the outside of a hospital.


----------



## Main Frame 8 (Mar 16, 2007)

Ironic that so many God Fearing people are perfectly capable of putting the good book aside to satisfy their own personal beliefs / agendas ahead of God's words and wish death on anyone. 

If you are a real christian, aren't you supposed to forgive everyone and pray for their salvation? 

And if you don't, are you a hypocrite OR do you get a pass because you are a "Real Christian", you know, not one of those people that believe in the fake gods like those worshipped in Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, Gnosticism, Jainism, Judaism, et al?

It's crazy I tell ya.


----------



## waterwolf (Mar 6, 2005)

*...*

F that sorry [email protected]#. Enough said....


----------



## Gottagofishin (Dec 17, 2005)

spirit said:


> It is 100% about justice. Its about making the guilty party pay their debt to society for what they did. This woman, regardless of her excuse, killed five human beings. Justice calls for the person who killed them to be punished. Period. The whole problem with this case is there was ZERO justice - this woman murdered those children and got rewarded for her behavior. That is sickening. She has been a pampered pooch, sucking off the taxpayers for years as her "punishment". Had justice been served, we would not be having this discussion. Because Miss High and Mighty would not be asking for special favors of fun days in the park for picnics to bring it about - she'd be in a jail cell where she belongs.


Justice is if I steal $10 from you, get caught, have to pay back the $10, and clean your house for a month. Justice is about equitably applying the rule of law for a fair and balanced outcome.

There is no way to balance out the senseless deaths of 5 children. On that I'm pretty sure we would agree.

I think the word you are looking for is vengeance, or possibly retribution. You want to avenge the deaths of those children. You want to remove the threat of her from the world. That I understand. Calling it Justice... That's just not what it is. If you want to end a life, you'd better be real clear in your head as to why. Otherwise, you may end up living with a lot of regret.

Btw. For the record, I believe she should never see the light of day and that giving her outings would be a really bad idea.


----------



## The1ThatGotAway (Jun 24, 2009)

waterwolf said:


> F that sorry [email protected]#. Enough said....


^^^^this^^^^

I didn't know that were so many tree huggin' pansies on here!!!!!


----------



## Spirit (Nov 19, 2008)

Gottagofishin said:


> ....
> I think the word you are looking for is vengeance, or possibly retribution. You want to avenge the deaths of those children...


No, I want justice. Justice is paying for what you did wrong. She should be locked up in prison .. for life .. without the possibility for parole. Just like the original jury said.

I can't believe you think punishing a person for the crime they commit isn't justice, its "vengeance, or possibly retribution". I call a sentence for what you did wrong justice - not the hogwash you said. I'm sorry you don't see it that way.

Edit: Okay I just re-read your post. We both agree she should never see the light of day. So why is my wanting her locked up for life "vengeance and possible retribution" and your desire to see her locked up not?

I'm confused!! You call me out for wanting her locked up yet you do to.


----------



## Gottagofishin (Dec 17, 2005)

From Mirriam-Webster

Justice: the process or result of using laws to fairly judge and punish crimes and criminals

Retribution: punishment for doing something wrong.

Justice was enacted through our court system. You don't clearly don't agree with the result and want retribution. 

Let's just call it what it is. If you can't do that, it might be worth asking yourself why. BTW. The principal of retribution is used extensively in our justice system, but they aren't the same thing.

I'm pretty much exhausted on the topic. Starting to repeat myself so time to stop. It's been a mostly interesing debate. I'm surprised it stayed out of the Jungle.


----------



## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

Main Frame 8 said:


> Ironic that so many God Fearing people are perfectly capable of putting the good book aside to satisfy their own personal beliefs / agendas ahead of God's words and wish death on anyone.
> 
> If you are a real christian, aren't you supposed to forgive everyone and pray for their salvation?
> 
> ...


Good post. I'm the forum's outspoken atheist, but I seem to have more compassion and understanding for my fellow man than any of these Sunday morning Christians.

Andrea Yates is severely mentally ill. She shouldn't be allowed in society anymore, but "punishing" her will do nothing to make this world a better place.


----------



## bk005 (Feb 23, 2005)

mastercylinder said:


> Good post. I'm the forum's outspoken atheist, but I seem to have more compassion and understanding for my fellow man than any of these Sunday morning Christians.
> 
> Andrea Yates is severely mentally ill. She shouldn't be allowed in society anymore, but "punishing" her will do nothing to make this world a better place.


I don't preach or push my beliefs or make fun of others as much as y'all, but I'm all for treating others with respect, and I also don't claim to be perfect or walk a the straightest line. This isn't narcissistic behavior or bipolar, we're talking major mental fubar'd. Evil mental or otherwise her actions dictate her removal from any normal society. Really who are you or I to say that her being locked up in an institution is any less cruel then quick painless euthanasia. At this point I'm trying to think on your level, no religion just betterment of fellow man. What can she contribute, the anger leveled at her is probably a primordial instinct, like protecting your offspring or those of your group, to me not really unexpected or out of line. To me, in possibly your more darwinstic world your position might be the more abnormal one?


----------



## bk005 (Feb 23, 2005)

456789 10......11....12.


----------



## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

Bruce, just shut the **** up. I'm learning how to do that. *sigh*


----------



## LIVIN (Oct 31, 2006)

Yeti, Brute, Engle or?

Which "high end" cooler will hold my ice the longest?


----------



## lil mambo (Jul 22, 2009)

The only injustice here is that the husband who left his children with a psychotic mother to die was never punished. Had he put those children in a cage with a hungry lion he would have been punished. What he did was just as cruel. The fact that he kept breeding with a woman who was having severe post partum depression is even crueler. The best part about it is he did this in the name of the lord. Justice was definitely not served as long as that sorry SOB is not behind bars. He obviously believes he is not culpable in this situation which means this could very well happen again. 

I personally believe we know whether we will be in heaven or hell before we leave this earth. If she is not insane than I can only believe that she will live in hell until the day she dies and take up residence there after her death. If she was truly mentally ill , she will be haunted by her actions until she dies and judged by the Lord after passing.

For all of you that say she should be put to death, I would hope you would be willing to personally flip the switch, squeeze the syringe, or the trigger personally. I think this should be the duty of every jury member who votes to give someone the death penalty. I feel if they had to carry out the sentence there would be far fewer death sentences handed down. In Charles Manson's case and lots of others I think I would have no problem personally carrying out the sentence. In this woman's case not so much considering the factual evidence that was heard by the jurors.


----------



## Mad Mike (Dec 28, 2005)

lil mambo said:


> For all of you that say she should be put to death, I would hope you would be willing to personally flip the switch, squeeze the syringe, or the trigger personally..


I wouldn't have a problem with executing her at all. No syringe, no switch, no pulling a trigger - she would get the bathtub execution that she gave her children from me.


----------



## Ernest (May 21, 2004)

*If she is not insane than I can only believe that she will live in hell until the day she dies and take up residence there after her death. If she was truly mentally ill , she will be haunted by her actions until she dies and judged by the Lord after passing.*

Isn't it just the opposite? Meaning, if she is insane, she can't accept Jesus as her savior, and thus will burn in hell. If she is sane, she can potentially accept Jesus as her savior, be forgiven and go to Heaven.

This is the part I don't get about some Christians. Some Christians act as though Heaven is some sort of exclusive country club filled with good people. The ticket to Heaven is not good works or being a good person. Isn't Heaven filled with murders, rapists, child molesters, and all types of sinners? Wasn't one of the first people admitted to Heaven the "Good Thief"? A man justly convicted of capital offenses and rightly executed next to Jesus.

'39 Now one of the criminals hanging there reviled Jesus, saying, "Are you not the Messiah? Save yourself and us." 
40 The other, however, rebuking him, said in reply, "Have you no fear of God, for you are subject to the same condemnation? 
41 And indeed, we have been condemned justly, for the sentence we received corresponds to our crimes, but this man has done nothing criminal." 
42 Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom." 
43 He replied to him, "*Amen I say to you today you will be with me in Paradise*." Luke 23:39-43

Is there a sin greater than denying a person the opportunity to find salvation in the Lord?


----------



## lil mambo (Jul 22, 2009)

Mad Mike said:


> I wouldn't have a problem with executing her at all. No syringe, no switch, no pulling a trigger - she would get the bathtub execution that she gave her children from me.


 Really, How many people have you executed in your life? I'm not talking about someone that is shooting at you, but someone who is sitting there shackled and gagged.


----------



## lil mambo (Jul 22, 2009)

Ernest said:


> *If she is not insane than I can only believe that she will live in hell until the day she dies and take up residence there after her death. If she was truly mentally ill , she will be haunted by her actions until she dies and judged by the Lord after passing.*
> 
> *I**Jesus as her savior, and thus will burn in hell. If she is sane, she can potentially accept Jesus as her savior, be forgiven and go to Heaven. **sn't it just the opposite? Meaning, if she is insane, she can't accept
> *
> ...


Not really Ernest, As a Catholic I was brought up to believe that good and just people of all religions will be accepted into heaven. Heck the jewish people do not even believe in Jesus and they are Gods chosen people who pretty much have automatic right of return.


----------



## Ernest (May 21, 2004)

Sure, I get that, but that's not the official position of the Catholic Church. 

The original position was no salvation outside the Catholic Church. 
The reformed position/modern position is no salvation except thru Jesus. As in, John: "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me" (Jn 14:6) 

Either way, that is very different from your personal views. Jews, Buddhists, and good atheists are excluded.


----------



## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

Mad Mike said:


> I wouldn't have a problem with executing her at all. No syringe, no switch, no pulling a trigger - she would get the bathtub execution that she gave her children from me.


That's just sick. How can you have so little sympathy for another human being?


----------



## MarkU (Jun 3, 2013)

mastercylinder said:


> That's just sick. How can you have so little sympathy for another human being?


Simple, I'd just channel "Yates" for 30 seconds.


----------



## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

What?


----------



## MarkU (Jun 3, 2013)

mastercylinder said:


> What?


http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Channelling


----------



## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

MarkU said:


> http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Channelling


Thanks. I know what channeling is. I'm just not sure what it has do with this conversation.


----------



## MarkU (Jun 3, 2013)

Wow, MC. can't keep up? 
Originally Posted by Mad Mike 
I wouldn't have a problem with executing her at all. No syringe, no switch, no pulling a trigger - she would get the bathtub execution that she gave her children from me.

That's just sick. How can you have so little sympathy for another human being?


Originally Posted by mastercylinder View Post
That's just sick. How can you have so little sympathy for another human being?
Simple, I'd just channel "Yates" for 30 seconds.


----------



## Gottagofishin (Dec 17, 2005)

Deciding that another human being has to die, making that decision yourself, is a terrible burden. You can't just apologize if you make a mistake.

It should give any sane rational person pause.


----------



## Spirit (Nov 19, 2008)

I made the hyperbole statement she deserved a bullet between the eyes initially, yes I did. But it was along the lines of string 'em up or shoot 'em and save the taxpayers some money -- not literally shoot the woman. This is not the 1800's. But, just as I have said all along, she should have faced execution or life without parole like any other murderer who did what she did would have.

My statements are based on frustration that this woman does not have to pay for her crimes, just live a cushy life in a hospital ... now go on play dates ... and be treated like a princess instead of the criminal she is. This woman has been a mastermind at playing the system to get away with ridding her life of the excess baggage she didn't want. I can't change the fact she got away with it, but I can sure gripe about it.

I don't see how frustration over those children's killer going unpunished makes me less of a Christian in some people's eyes - luckily my salvation is between me and God not the posters on 2Cool, otherwise, apparently I'd be condemned to hell already.


----------



## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

Gottagofishin said:


> Deciding that another human being has to die, making that decision yourself, is a terrible burden. You can't just apologize if you make a mistake.
> 
> It should give any sane rational person pause.


Do any of us have that right to decide who lives or dies? Some of these ******** in 2cool think they do, but I don't think so.


----------



## Mad Mike (Dec 28, 2005)

mastercylinder said:


> That's just sick. How can you have so little sympathy for another human being?


People that harm innocent children are the scum of the earth IMO and get no sympathy from me. Andrea Yates should be executed.


----------



## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

The woman is mentally ill, Mike. She's sick. What good does more killing do? Who are you to decide who lives or dies?


----------



## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

Spirit, who are you to decide who lives or dies? Do any of us have that right? I don't think so. I know I don't.


----------



## lil mambo (Jul 22, 2009)

spirit said:


> I made the hyperbole statement she deserved a bullet between the eyes initially, yes I did. But it was along the lines of string 'em up or shoot 'em and save the taxpayers some money -- not literally shoot the woman. This is not the 1800's. But, just as I have said all along, she should have faced execution or life without parole like any other murderer who did what she did would have.
> 
> My statements are based on frustration that this woman does not have to pay for her crimes, just live a cushy life in a hospital ... now go on play dates ... and be treated like a princess instead of the criminal she is. This woman has been a mastermind at playing the system to get away with ridding her life of the excess baggage she didn't want. I can't change the fact she got away with it, but I can sure gripe about it.
> 
> I don't see how frustration over those children's killer going unpunished makes me less of a Christian in some people's eyes - luckily my salvation is between me and God not the posters on 2Cool, otherwise, apparently I'd be condemned to hell already.


 I still haven't heard you say what we should do with the scumbag who fed those children to the Lion.


----------



## Spirit (Nov 19, 2008)

mastercylinder said:


> Spirit, who are you to decide who lives or dies? Do any of us have that right? I don't think so. I know I don't.


That was the jury's decision to make not mine. Our laws give juries that right. My complaint is that she should have gotten the normal punishment for killing five children - whether jail or death - and she got nothing but a high five and a hearty, "WTG, Andrea!! We love you!!" from the jury.

That was SO wrong!!! But if that wasn't wrong enough, now she wants even more kudos and demands play days and picnics in the park. The woman is a piece of work like none I've ever seen. Her performance of the Poor Pitiful Me I'm Mentally Ill and Lost Control role was truly Oscar worthy -- she convinced the jury and that is all she had to do. I'm sure she goes to bed every night saying, "Suckers!" and laughing herself to sleep.


----------



## Gottagofishin (Dec 17, 2005)

MC... Do we have the right to make that decision? We can debate that forever. 

What isn't up for debate is that sometimes we are given the responsibility to make that decision. 

Those decisions usually have serious consequences no matter your choice. 

Maybe someone has to actually have been in that position to understand it.


----------



## jmar623 (Aug 25, 2007)

*What are the Benefits?*

"The doctors recommended (Yates) could* benefit* from passes for a couple of hours to attend picnics with other patients," said Parnham, adding that the outings would be part of Yates' ongoing rehabilitation and that she would be accompanied by guards and staff at all times.

My thoughts are what are the benefits? Are they working towards an end result for her, as in, one day she could be all better? Be released? Why would going on outings be a benefit?

If she is still mentally unstable, would being given a taste of normalcy be helpful or harmful?


----------



## BretE (Jan 24, 2008)

I don't care if you're bat****e crazy or not. If you kill five kids you gotta die.....it's just that simple....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## photofishin (Aug 7, 2009)

mastercylinder said:


> Do any of us have that right to decide who lives or dies? Some of these ******** in 2cool think they do, but I don't think so.


So you keep calling people who don't agree with you names like religious nuts and ********. Just how is this beneficial to the conversation? Save putting yourself on some sort of pulpit?

Personally, there are a few people in history who truly deserve a horrid death. People like Hitler, Osama Bin Laden, the killers who performed the Yogurt Shop murders and yes, Andrea Yates.

Nobody here suggested she should be tortured cruelly before killing her. We simply said there is no reason she shouldn't be put to death via the death penalty. You call that cruel, we call that humane.


----------



## Bull Fish (Nov 15, 2006)

Brete said:


> I don't care if you're bat****e crazy or not. If you kill five kids you gotta die.....it's just that simple....
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


My words to the T!


----------



## DANO (May 23, 2005)

Brete said:


> I don't care if you're bat****e crazy or not. If you kill five kids you gotta die.....it's just that simple....


X3


----------



## Spirit (Nov 19, 2008)

lil mambo said:


> I still haven't heard you say what we should do with the scumbag who fed those children to the Lion.


Not sure what you mean.


----------



## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

Brete said:


> I don't care if you're bat****e crazy or not. If you kill five kids you gotta die.....it's just that simple....


And what problem does that solve?


----------



## big john o (Aug 12, 2005)

mastercylinder said:


> And what problem does that solve?


Remember post #167


----------



## lil mambo (Jul 22, 2009)

spirit said:


> Not sure what you mean.


Didn't her husband leave those children with their mother who had been diagnosed with severe post partum depression. No different than throwing them in a cage with a hungry lion. Of course someone might just have to have a wee Bit of understanding of mental illness to appreciate my comparison.


----------



## Category6 (Nov 21, 2007)

when did man-eating lions get involved? I say feed her to the lions, feed the giraffes to the lions, and then feed the lions to the dogs. I hate cats.


----------



## sharkchum (Feb 10, 2012)

lil mambo said:


> Didn't her husband leave those children with their mother who had been diagnosed with severe post partum depression. No different than throwing them in a cage with a hungry lion. Of course someone might just have to have a wee Bit of understanding of mental illness to appreciate my comparison.


x2. If anyone deserves the death penalty it's her husband. If I left my kids alone in a room full of loaded guns, and they killed there self, than I would be the one to blame, and that's exactly what he did, and got away free as a bird. Anyone that understands what it means for a person to be "insane" would understand. I really hope all of you can keep the opinions you have right now about mental illness , and never have to go through what I've been through to make you change your mind.


----------



## Category6 (Nov 21, 2007)

maybe they were just really bad kids and everyone involved should have been fed to the lions...I'm just dumbfounded that this argument is still trudging along. (no I don't believe young children should be fed to lions, or drowned...jeebus)


----------



## big john o (Aug 12, 2005)

Category5 said:


> *maybe they were just really bad kids* and everyone involved should have been fed to the lions...I'm just dumbfounded that this argument is still trudging along. (no I don't believe young children should be fed to lions, or drowned...jeebus)


I gave you a Red on the other thread ... out of bullets


----------



## BretE (Jan 24, 2008)

mastercylinder said:


> And what problem does that solve?


Not gonna debate it with you MC. Just the way it is. If you can't see it, I can't change your mind.....

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

Brete said:


> Not gonna debate it with you MC.


Why not? Do you have anything better to do?


----------



## BretE (Jan 24, 2008)

Brete said:


> Not gonna debate it with you MC. Just the way it is. If you can't see it, I can't change your mind.....
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I sure do....

Oops.....meant to quote you MC....

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

No you don't. If you did, you wouldn't hang out on 2cool all day.


----------



## The1ThatGotAway (Jun 24, 2009)

mastercylinder said:


> Why not? Do you have anything better to do?


Things better to do than argue with mc...

Contract herpes
Get cancer
Car break down on Montrose
Have a really sweet cell mate
Fall into a cactus bush


----------



## Category6 (Nov 21, 2007)

big john o said:


> I gave you a Red on the other thread ... out of bullets


I ain't scared of red....red away


----------



## finkikin (Jul 8, 2011)

Kill the killer.


----------



## PeteD (Sep 21, 2005)

I've followed this thread on and off, and I have great difficulty understanding many of the views that have been expressed.

First, I suggest that many of you should read up on postpartum psychosis andi bipolar disorder.

Second, Yates was having diagnosable mental health problems long before she killed her children, so I don't think it stands to reason that she was putting on act in court. She was exhibiting serious mental health issues at least as far back as the time of the birth of her first child.

She was hospitalized several times, warned against having more children, and after her last hospitalization, her family was warned not to leave her alone. Her husband left for work and ignored those warnings -- and that's when she killed her five children.

Third, I don't understand how some Christians could be so callous as to want to drown her or put a bullet through her head. I know my Jesus would never condone such acts.


----------



## Ernest (May 21, 2004)

Welcome Back PeteD. Have not "read" you in awhile.


----------



## BretE (Jan 24, 2008)

mastercylinder said:


> No you don't. If you did, you wouldn't hang out on 2cool all day.


Lol......I used to get a kick out of you MC......now, not so much....

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

PeteD said:


> Third, I don't understand how some Christians could be so callous as to want to drown her or put a bullet through her head. I know my Jesus would never condone such acts.


They just call themselves Christians.. It makes the hypocrites feel better about being so heartless and hateful.


----------



## roundman (May 21, 2004)

mastercylinder said:


> They just call themselves Christians.. it makes them feel better .


----------



## photofishin (Aug 7, 2009)

PeteD said:


> I've followed this thread on and off, and I have great difficulty understanding many of the views that have been expressed.
> 
> First, I suggest that many of you should read up on postpartum psychosis andi bipolar disorder.
> 
> ...


First, let me explain something to you. Whether I'm Christian, Jewish or Hindu makes a hill of beans how this is viewed from a realistic point of view. All of the "shoulda, coulda, woulda's" in the world didn't stop her from killing 5 innocent babies. Mental health may be a legal excuse, but it DOESN'T separate the heinous act from the person. She brutally MURDERED 5 children. She didn't have a slight breakdown and vandalize a car...once again, she MURDERED 5 children. 
I know way too many people who would rather make excuses for stuff like this rather than face reality. The reality is she is not ever going to be a productive member of society. Mental insanity is a ridiculous defense for murder.


----------



## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

roundman said:


>


One of my most favorite lines in movie history ... "authentic frontier gibberish" too funny.


----------



## donf (Aug 8, 2005)

David, 
Wasn't she one of your six ex-wife's ?


----------



## Fish&Chips (Jan 27, 2012)

photofishin said:


> First, let me explain something to you. Whether I'm Christian, Jewish or Hindu makes a hill of beans how this is viewed from a realistic point of view.


If your Christianity is not real then that explains a lot of the responses that have been posted which go against Jesus' teachings.

BTW - Good post PeteD.


----------



## Count Dragula (May 22, 2012)

mastercylinder said:


> Do any of us have that right to decide who lives or dies? Some of these ******** in 2cool think they do, but I don't think so.


The last time I checked we still have the Judicial system which gives 12 men and women, regardless of religious beliefs the right to decide. We are all mentally ill to a degree. It's called making mistakes through poor judgement. Unfortunately some slip through the system, claiming it's an illness as an excuse.


----------



## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

Count Dragula said:


> The last time I checked we still have the Judicial system which gives 12 men and women, regardless of religious beliefs the right to decide. We are all mentally ill to a degree. It's called making mistakes through poor judgement. Unfortunately some slip through the system, claiming it's an illness as an excuse.


So, what's the answer? Is killing for killing the answer? Is that how we deal with this?


----------



## bk005 (Feb 23, 2005)

mastercylinder said:


> So, what's the answer? Is killing for killing the answer? Is that how we deal with this?


"She said Noah, 7, struggled the most violently and even escaped from the tub, but "I got him"


----------



## Count Dragula (May 22, 2012)

mastercylinder said:


> So, what's the answer? Is killing for killing the answer? Is that how we deal with this?


I responded to your quote as to who has the right to decide. Was it not a satisfactory answer? Then you ask another question. What is it with you? If you dont like the laws of Texas or this country then I advise you to go live elsewhere, or run for office as a public servant. If your already a non resident of Texas then great, keep it that way.


----------



## Gottagofishin (Dec 17, 2005)

Ernest said:


> Welcome Back PeteD. Have not "read" you in awhile.


ditto. And well said as usual.


----------



## poppadawg (Aug 10, 2007)

Anybody ever notice Texas is a pro life and pro death state?


----------

