# Crossbow bill filed



## State_Vet (Oct 10, 2006)

HB 968 has been filed, a similiar bill was filed last session. Get your popcorn out:biggrin:

A BILL TO BE ENTITLED

AN ACT​
relating to the use of crossbows for hunting.
BE IT ENACTED BY THE LEGISLATURE OF THE STATE OF TEXAS:
SECTION 1. Section 43.201(a), Parks and Wildlife Code, is amended to read as follows:
(a) Except as provided by Subsection (c) or (d), no person may hunt deer, turkey, or javelina (collared peccary) during an open archery season provided by law or by the proclamations of the commission and during which season only crossbows, [*used by hunters with upper limb disabilities and*] *<<<<this is the part being removed)* longbows, recurved bows, and compound bows may be used unless the person has acquired an archery hunting stamp issued to the person by the department. The commission by rule may prescribe requirements relating to possessing a stamp required by this subchapter.
SECTION 2. The change in law made by this Act applies to a proceeding regarding hunting with a crossbow that is pending or filed on or after the effective date of this Act.
SECTION 3. This Act takes effect September 1, 2009.


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## Rack Ranch (May 25, 2004)

George, What is the reason for removing this? have you heard of problems with the current law? me no getty !!


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## TXwhtlHNTR (Nov 19, 2008)

:smile:

But wait, it's not a fair way to hunt unless it's MY way of hunting! :biggrin:


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## State_Vet (Oct 10, 2006)

Rack Ranch said:


> George, What is the reason for removing this? have you heard of problems with the current law? me no getty !!


This bill was filed last year and didn't have the votes to pass out of the committee. Someone is pushing for it, my take is someone with an "interest" in crossbows:biggrin:


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## RogerB (Oct 11, 2005)

uh oh....here we go.....


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## Bucksnort (Jun 29, 2004)

Hey, looks like I might need to buy a new toy.


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## Chunky (Oct 15, 2006)

The general opinion is the push always comes from crossbow manufacturers. The one big agrument they use to make, was that it would allow more kids and women to hunt in Oct. But last year they totally eleminated the draw weight restriction, so that argument doesn't really hold water anymore.

The resistance comes from the bowhunting organizations (like LSBA) who's main charter is to protect bowhunting. Figuring that if people can buy crossbows, they will not buy or learn to use real bows. That people will take the easiest way...bowhunting is suppose to be difficult, thus the early chance before the woods are crowded and the bullets are flying. Of course, with the state of the art of modern archery equipment, this argument also has a few leaks.

Some people make the safety argument, a crossbow can not be unloaded without being fired. It is way more likely to fire accidently. My personal experience is that they are not very accurate.

While I don't believe a crossbow is a bow or archery, and does not belong in Oct. I am kind of tired of fighting this fight. I think the impact would be way less than most bowhunters fear.

It does seem like Texas Parks and Wildlife has a definite anti-bowhunting agenda.


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## Bucksnort (Jun 29, 2004)

I can vouch that Stumpy's crossbow is very accurate. Personally I would like to own one as another weapon to hunt with. I don't want to spend the money on it though because I wouldn't us it that much. But I think it would be fun to hunt with.


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## RogerB (Oct 11, 2005)

crossbow accuracy has, over the past several years, improved dramatically. The old arguments that this dilutes bowhunting doesn't wash with me. I've seen the evolution of bowhunting from long bow to the new, ultralight compounds. I see no problem with allowing crossbows during bow season. This idea that somehow bow hunting is reserved only for a particular "definition" of a bow doesn't make much sense to me. Fact is crossbows have been around awhile now (first used between 500 BC and 300 BC) and even the Inuit in North America used these for hunting. I say the more opportunities available for hunting can only improve the sport, get more folks outdoors and help preserve the hunting heritage.


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## State_Vet (Oct 10, 2006)

As one that hunts during archery season with a crossbow, I guess I'm in the middle of this argument. I can see the bow hunters side of the argument, however what I've failed to see is the general publics argument for allowing it. If non-disabled individuals who are not allowed to currently use a crossbow and who refuse to use a compound, recurve, etc bow start voicing an argument then it may be more believable. 

As it currently stands it appears that lobbiest are pushing this change on behalf of the silent majority using the excuse that with the change interest will increase in the use of crossbows during the archery only season.

I say leave it as it is, those that have the dedication and patience to practice and achieve a certain skill level with a bow I feel deserve a little time alone in the woods, the few of us that are allowed to hunt with crossbows now are few.


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## RogerB (Oct 11, 2005)

I don't disagree with your post at all. I just think the issue of crossbow never should have been an issue at all. When an "archery only season" was first instituted it was at the insistance of bow hunters (and yes, I'm a bow hunter - not a good one mind you - but I do own a bow and have hunted with it), bow hunters also insisted on excluding crossbows because of their own self-definition that a crossbow is not archery equipment. (because it has a stock, with a trigger and the ability to "rest" the arrow whereas "regular" bows didn't provide any of those "luxuries") DUH!! Me? I don't care I just think the attitude that crossbows are not defined as archery equipment is just plain silly and completely wrong.


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## Bucksnort (Jun 29, 2004)

Well, there is no doubt that a crossbow is easier to use than a regular bow.


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## State_Vet (Oct 10, 2006)

RogerB said:


> I don't disagree with your post at all. I just think the issue of crossbow never should have been an issue at all. When an "archery only season" was first instituted it was at the insistance of bow hunters (and yes, I'm a bow hunter - not a good one mind you - but I do own a bow and have hunted with it), bow hunters also insisted on excluding crossbows because of their own self-definition that a crossbow is not archery equipment. (because it has a stock, with a trigger and the ability to "rest" the arrow whereas "regular" bows didn't provide any of those "luxuries") DUH!! Me? I don't care I just think the attitude that crossbows are not defined as archery equipment is just plain silly and completely wrong.


I agree, during the committee hearings on the Bill last session those against the Bill kept saying that crossbows are not defined as archery, a weak argument in my opinion.


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## Rack Ranch (May 25, 2004)

Well said..I agree with ya!!


State_Vet said:


> As one that hunts during archery season with a crossbow, I guess I'm in the middle of this argument. I can see the bow hunters side of the argument, however what I've failed to see is the general publics argument for allowing it. If non-disabled individuals who are not allowed to currently use a crossbow and who refuse to use a compound, recurve, etc bow start voicing an argument then it may be more believable.
> 
> As it currently stands it appears that lobbiest are pushing this change on behalf of the silent majority using the excuse that with the change interest will increase in the use of crossbows during the archery only season.
> 
> I say leave it as it is, those that have the dedication and patience to practice and achieve a certain skill level with a bow I feel deserve a little time alone in the woods, the few of us that are allowed to hunt with crossbows now are few.


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## Chunky (Oct 15, 2006)

The main difference between a crossbow and a regular bow, is that the person using it has to draw the bow, while the animal is in very close proximity. This means movement while you are in the animal's alert area. This is part of what makes bowhunting difficult.

I am not a crossbow guy, but I believe the better ones would have a slightly longer effective range. Not enough that I think it makes a big difference.

I feel that part of the reason many bowhunters fight so hard against the crossbow, is that it is seen as the first step. Give an inch, they take a mile. They were trying to get the entire month of October as youth rifle season this year. If crossbows are allowed, it is not a big stretch to think they would say...well how about black powder now, and let's just call it primitive season. And then well why not add pistol hunters, more hunters in the field...all good, right? And then it is just one big general season.

This may not hurt you if you have a good lease, or own your own big ranch. The guys most effected are the public land guys, and the little 50 acre places. When the guns start going off, it gets much harder to get a relaxed animal within 20 or 30 yards.

You know that 7 dollar archery stamp, well a lot of bowhunters feel like they are paying for that extra time with that.

Anyway, this debate has been going for years. I don't know why the lawmakers think that things have changed in the last year. I could see bringing this up every 3 or 5 years maybe...but two years in a row seems like a waste of valuable time (unless they are getting a kick back for doing it).


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## bountyhunter (Jul 6, 2005)

Most of you guys have some very valid points on both sides of the fence. Me, I've never thought about it that much really. 

Now youth rifle all of October, I say heck no! 

Muzzleloader during archery, I say heck no, but being a muzzleloader hunter also I would like to see a little longer season just for it. 

Crossbow during archery, well I know a few guys that would benefit, they can't hit the broadside of a barn door with a bow. In fact one of them is a good friend that I have to turn down year after year to bow hunt on my place, but I'm not going to turn him loose on what few deer we have. Now I don't know that much about crossbows but I've seen a few in action and they looked pretty deadly to me.

Now the first step tactic is a valid arguement as it would be the first time we hunters and fishermen gave an inch and before it all said and done they took a mile. If that is their tactic, then Heck No to Crossbows as well during archery.

Now on a side note, I've been considering getting a good crossbow to use during general season. The less shooting the deer hear the better it is for us in East TX. My only issue is they cost almost as much as a good rifle now a days.


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## State_Vet (Oct 10, 2006)

My question as I think many will agree is why change it? Some "for" will argue that Texas doesn't take enough deer as it is, hmmmm....wouldn't it make more sense to extend the rifle season then?

IMO someone is pulling the strings here and it is not the hunting population


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## bmartin643 (Dec 2, 2008)

I like the idea of a longer all goes season. Having the fall broken up into this and that for only those and them, makes no sense to me.

And as for the 7 dollar we get more time alone idea, well, I pay an extra $5 for bass, (and was told that when the state got enough money for new and upgrades to fisheries that would go away, ya, we got it hard on that one, but that is another post) I would think then the same would apply to fishermen, but almost every weekend, some bass club is having a tournament on area lakes, with 15-30 boats wizzing around.....but hay, money talks....

but, i am for an all general season to get more people in the woods, and to keep them longer hunting that is, and hopefully create more lifelong outdoorsmen and women...and perhaps taking more deer in the time...and I now choose my lakes by checking in with lake to see if a boat tournament is going on....

however, i have a question, why do bow guys have their own season? What started that anyway? And is there any management reason?


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## TXPalerider (May 21, 2004)

Stumpy, you hunt with a crossbow due to a handicap. I agree with that because you have no other options. However, I am 110% against otherwise physically capable hunters hunting with crossbows during the "archery only" season! This agenda is not in the best interest of bowhunting. 

That's just my opinion!!


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## Chunky (Oct 15, 2006)

bmartin,

To answer that you have to go back to the days when bowhunting was just getting a following. The Fred Bear, Ben Pearson, Glen St. Charles era. 

Then you have to think about states that are not Texas. In Pennsylvania for example. The season is short, the hunting areas are small, and when it opens, it is hard to go a hundred yards with out seeing another guy.

Given the fact that you have to have a deer standing still, inside 30 yards, while you draw your bow and take a shot.....very difficult when the woods are full of gun hunters doing a lot of shooting.

Because in those days, bowhunters didn't take that many animals or have a big impact on the resourse, they lobbied for an got an extra season....so they could try and do it the "hard" way before there was a ton of pressure. 

Remember in those days, it was not "we are not taking enough deer" like it is on big Texas leases, it was the season is only a week long because that is all the herd can stand. Having an Oct. bow season, allowed more hunting and little impact.

That is the history, to my understanding. It applies less in Texas, as mentioned in other posts....but still, why not reward the population who wants to do it in a more challenging way?

The difference in the bass stamp and archery stamp, is that bowhunters (LSBA) wanted the stamp, and fought to keep it...because they feel it is part of the whole system for having the archery season.


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## Captn C (May 21, 2004)

TXPalerider said:


> Stumpy, you hunt with a crossbow due to a handicap. I agree with that because you have no other options. However, I am 110% against otherwise physically capable hunters hunting with crossbows during the "archery only" season! This agenda is not in the best interest of bowhunting.
> 
> That's just my opinion!!


I with TXP on the subject.

We have one bowhunter on our lease that uses a crossbow. He originly used a compound bow, but fell off a ladder and broke his left arm in 5 places about 8 years ago. He can no longer extend his arm to use a standard bow.

He told me during the season he is planning on getting another compound and trying to get back into using a standard bow.

So yeah, I'm all for a handy capped exemption, but that is all.

The wife and I have been talking about buying a crossbow to use during the regular hunting season. I doubt we'll use it on any thing but hogs...

Even though we (the wife and I) both have black powder rifles (both side locks), I don't see any need here in Texas for a special season just for it's use. The new black powder rifles even more so!


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## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

I personnaly think the law has been fine the way it is - no crossbows unless you have a permanent upper limb disability.


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## RogerB (Oct 11, 2005)

State_Vet said:


> Some "for" will argue that Texas doesn't take enough deer as it is, hmmmm....wouldn't it make more sense to extend the rifle season then?
> 
> IMO someone is pulling the strings here and it is not the hunting population


so which way would you extend the season(s)? earlier? or later? either way you're going to get the same arguments. As for the initial discussion about crossbows, I still maintain that the argument about crossbows not being "traditional" archery is bunk. "Traditional" archery as implied in previous posts regarding why archery season became a seperate season, doesn't hold water anymore. Archery equipment has changed more dramatically than centerfire rifles over the past 20 years. From long bows with no sights to the current crop of new compound bows, with fiber optic sites and even night lights for night hunting accuracy and power have improved considerably. Again, I've no problem with a seperate archery season I just don't see the problem everyone else sees with permitting crossbows. Worth noting too is the fact that whoever is "pulling the strings" is in in the archery industry now. Horton makes both crossbow and compound. So does Diamond Archery among others (and no - I don't own a crossbow, I have a couple of compound bows that suit me just fine).


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## fishit (Jul 12, 2007)

i would like for the bill to pass - i really don't think it would have a negative impact at all.

i have hunted w/ both crossbow and compound and can't see why it should be a problem.


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## State_Vet (Oct 10, 2006)

bmartin643 said:


> I like the idea of a longer all goes season. Having the fall broken up into this and that for only those and them, makes no sense to me.


I guess we do away with the youth season too.

So you didn't get enough hunting in with your crossbow or rifle in 2+ months?


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## Chunky (Oct 15, 2006)

RogerB,

You make some good points. Compound bows have come very far and are now very accurate and deadly at ranges only dreamed off 20 years ago, and you can become proficient in a short time....but you still have to draw it. You only have to move your finger to shoot a crossbow. Is that enough to keep them out bow season? I am just making a point.

Another point, I still hunt with longbows and recurves, no sights, no release, no stablizer, no drop away rests. etc....maybe I should have October all to myself 

By far most bowhunters are using state of the art equipment, but not all by a long shot.


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## RogerB (Oct 11, 2005)

Chunky said:


> RogerB,
> 
> you still have to draw it. You only have to move your finger to shoot a crossbow. Is that enough to keep them out bow season? I am just making a point.
> 
> Another point, I still hunt with longbows and recurves, no sights, no release, no stablizer, no drop away rests. etc....maybe I should have October all to myself


yup, I realize that - and I think that's part of the reason why I've never really gotten into crossbows that much, if I want to just pull the trigger on a hunting implement I have rifles and pistols for that purpose.

As to your other point - you'd be amazed at the number of knockdown, drag out, blood on the floor arguments I've seen over the years between "traditional" bow hunters and the "non-traditional" bow hunters.Which of course goes right back to my earlier point about Inuit Indians using crossbows long before the whiteman knew what an Inuit Indian was - so does that make them a "non-traditional" bow hunter?.


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## Chunky (Oct 15, 2006)

Well you will never have one of those arguments with me. I am not a trad snob (I do know where you can go to find them). I hunt with this equipment because it is right for me. It is simple with nothing to fail except the shooter (for the most part) and I like the challenge of it. If I don't focus and put forth a max effort, I can easily miss. I really don't care what anyone calls traditional. Lables mean very little, I only say traditional because that lets most hunters know you are talking about wood bows and not compounds. A simple man needs simple methods. 

I am glad we can have this type of discussion and keep it intelligent and on the issues...not making it personal. I value imput, especially when it differs from my own views....occasionally I have even been wrong :0


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## RogerB (Oct 11, 2005)

I too appreciate the discussion. I've used a recurve once - only once ('cause I was TERRIBLE with it! ha!). I'm pretty good on paper with a compound out to 40 yards just never have had an opportunity to take a critter with it. But who knows? this year might be the year. I can certainly understand why you use a recurve and a long bow, danged compound bows can get expensive with all the hardware you gotta hang off it.


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