# Can You Retire?



## jighed (Jul 20, 2006)

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/retirement/view/

You young ones on this board need to watch this video. And/or read some of the stories concerning retirement funding. The statistics are alarming. 
Click on thE HOME tab for additional info. This is not a sales pitch, just some info from a 42 yr old with 21 yrs at the same company who just realized he is WAY under funding.


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## kenny (May 21, 2004)

Do you realize how many people never save a dime for retirement?


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## PHINS (May 25, 2004)

I'm finally getting my act together.


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## catch 5 (Apr 10, 2006)

I just bought a bigger piggy bank


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## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

inside every 70-year old is a 35-year old asking, "what happened?"


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Well i retired at 43 after 21 years of service at a place. Retired in 1983 and im still here. Thanks to my wife for working and supporting my hunting and fishing habit.

Charlie


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## DannyMac (May 22, 2004)

yep, I have 34 yrs. in coaching and thanks to teacher retirement and some timely investments my wife and I will be ok. I would like to see the rule that penalizes us from drawing our SS removed. I have a small amount paid in but its all mine and I want it.


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## biki1121 (Jul 3, 2005)

My family is going to be fine. Me (a fireman) and my wife (a nurse) save a whole bunch of money and fund a decent education for our 2 kids sure enough. We don't have some of the nicer things but we have a happy home, a loving family and a future. Can't complain at all about that. And we hope to pass it on to our two kids! I don't care how old you are or what you make, a person can start saving and have something when the time comes. It's up to the person.


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## ol billy (Jun 14, 2005)

My fiancee and I are both 28 and we've been doing the 6% thing into 401(k) as long as we've been able to and it is amazing how fast it balloons. 

That 6% a paycheck adds up super, super fast. 

I saw a chart that said if you do just that early on by the time you're in your fifties you should be millionaires.


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## Stuart (May 21, 2004)

JesseTX said:


> I saw a chart that said if you do just that early on by the time you're in your fifties you should be millionaires.


Of course, a Hyundai will cost $125,000 by then.


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## Stuart (May 21, 2004)

I'm 43, been in 401k for 15 years or so. My wife will get her teachers retirement (yes dear, you have to keep working for a few more years). I'm an accountant and have always been frugal with my money. I build up a slush fund of mad money when I want a toy. My wife on the other hand is one of those people that doesn't have a money care in the world and it's not cause we are rich or anything either. She just plain does not worry about having enough for retirement, kids college etc... It never crosses her mind. Oh well, I worry about it enough for the both of us, but it does cause some tension in the household.


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## WWR (Nov 22, 2006)

That is why I want to start working towards my retirement when I get a job, which should be ASAP!! (just graduated college). 
Through my mother's work I want to open an IRA too. And my wife (one day soon) will be a physical therapist soon.

I know a lot of peope who are pretty old and don't have a dime stored away...........I couldn't imagine being in those shoes!


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## jighed (Jul 20, 2006)

JesseTX... "I saw a chart that said if you do just that early on by the time you're in your fifties you should be millionaires."



If you are putting 6% into your companies 401k you need to keep and eye on it. Here in the office me and 2 guys are seeing double digit rate of return from Jan 1st. Another guy is in the single digits. He does not monitor his 401k or move his $$$ to different funds. The chart you see may represent the perfect stock/bond funds, perfect timing and a strong market, assuming you get a 5% raise every year etc.. etc....
Stay on your toes and KNOW whats going on inside your 401k.

Like mastercyliner said, "inside every 70 year old is a 35 year old asking, what happened"


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## REDKILR (Apr 30, 2005)

6%?That's peanuts.My wife puts 23%into her 401k.I don't know how,but she does and I can tell you,that sucka is moving on up.I just have a Roth that I put about 3k in every year and it doesn't do too bad.Save everything that you can,because in twenty years things are gonna be really expensive.


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## Lezz Go (Jun 27, 2006)

My wife has been putting the max in her 403-B for 17 years. We watch her investments pretty close and are getting double digit returns. We have zero CC debt, and all the house flipping proceeds go into savings. We pay cash for just about everything which I can't stress enough.


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## AL-umineum (Jul 16, 2004)

not necessarily a good thing to preach to young people as everyone needs credit...................... and paying cash for everything will get you none.

Jeff


Lezz Go said:
 

> My wife has been putting the max in her 403-B for 17 years. We watch her investments pretty close and are getting double digit returns. We have zero CC debt, and all the house flipping proceeds go into savings. We pay cash for just about everything which I can't stress enough.


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## Kyle 1974 (May 10, 2006)

AL-umineum said:


> not necessarily a good thing to preach to young people as everyone needs credit...................... and paying cash for everything will get you none.
> 
> Jeff


Why do you need credit? So you can get MORE credit? LOL.

I've heard that excuse time and time again about using credit cards "to build credit"

If you can get to a point where you pay cash for everything, then you're probably much more financially responsible than 90% of people living in this country. I heard the other day that the "average" person has $9,000 in credit card debt... call me crazy, but I'd prefer to not be average. My wife and I paid off all the stupid debt we built in college and I have to say, there's not a day that goes by that I don't regret "not building my credit". We have our cars paid off, no CC debt, and only have a mortgage.

I think there's much more to living within your means, than constantly building debt with credit.


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## LBS (Sep 2, 2004)

> We have our cars paid off, no CC debt, and only have a mortgage.


Don't wanna ask a stupid question here, but do you think you would get a decent FIXED interest rate on that mortgage without credit? You can't pay cash for everything so at some point, you have to build some credit.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

I didnt have credit for years and never missed not having that. Somehow over the years I guess we have developed some because of all the phone calls wanting to give us a CC for only so much %. Now who would want that ? We do have a zero interest CC that my wife uses to get credit for miles on some airline when she wants to go somewhere.

Charlie


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## catch 5 (Apr 10, 2006)

Not many people can afford to pay cash for everything. Im young (29), and I was at a point a few years back where I didnt have any credit, but couldnt afford to buy everything with cash. I spent a great deal of time building my credit, making small purchases and financing them. It doesnt happen overnight either. 

If it werent for me building my credit I wouldnt have half of the things I have now. How do you expect to buy a house and get a decent interest rate with no credit? It wont happen. Im not overwhelmed in debt and I live within my means, but some of the things (boat, house ect.) had to be financed, therefore good credit is a good thing for me.


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## PHINS (May 25, 2004)

You can still get a mortage without a credit history, just a little harder. I am on the bandwagon with paying cash and saving my money for the toys.


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## Slip (Jul 25, 2006)

I will agree with earlier post. 6% going into a 401 is not near enough. I sounds like the final results will be great at that rate, but with inflation, you need to put in more. Does your company match it in any way? If not, you need to put in much more. Mine has grown a lot over the years, but after 30 years, it still is not enought to retire on and company matches pretty well. In 5 years however, I plan on retiring and should do very well but I put in 13% with company putting in even more. I also still have a pension besides the 401k. I will not be rich but will be able to live at same style I presently do. Maybe you need to really talk to a financial person to see where your 6% will actually land you and see what you will need. I have gotten huge returns on my money by watching the funds and moving to maximize returns also. It does pay to watch the investments or get an advisor.


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## Kyle 1974 (May 10, 2006)

LBS said:


> Don't wanna ask a stupid question here, but do you think you would get a decent FIXED interest rate on that mortgage without credit? You can't pay cash for everything so at some point, you have to build some credit.


I'm not a loan officer, but I'd be willing to bet that having 20% to 40% for a given cost of a home in cash, in the bank, would say something about your financial responsibility instead of having a best buy credit card history for 2 years and financing a playstation 3 and a sony plasma TV....

Mortgage companies don't just look at how many credit cards you've had. They look at your banking history, your work history, and overall stability.

this credit thing has become the biggest scam of the 20th century.

We have 50K cars and trucks becoming the norm, because the average consumer doesn't look at the price of the vehicle, they look at their monthly payment.

I was checking out boats this weekend, and asked the salesman what the cash price would be. The salesmen asked me why I would pay cash for something I could "just finance" for 10 years.......brilliance is everywhere.

I guess we've strayed off the original post though (IMAGINE THAT!!!) LOL

Another thing to point out, is it sure is a lot easier to fully fund my pre-tax contribution every year, since I'm no longer owned by debt. My company's 401K doesn't accept post tax contributions, so anything outside of that, I'm on my own.


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## ol billy (Jun 14, 2005)

Slip knot, my company matches it dollar for dollar up to 6% which is why I do 6%.

We also have other savings avenues. I didn't meant to convey that was our only method of saving. It's just a nice part of it since there is "free money" involved.


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## Slip (Jul 25, 2006)

Agree Jesse, my company matches more than the dollar for dollar and I still am not rich after 30 years. I have quite a bit, but not enough to know it will last me for the next 20 - 30 years of life or longer if needed. This is what I feel I need to have to comfortable retire with. Last thing I want is to go through the money I saved and have to end up only on SS. If you watch your investments, you can get way more than what you will get by not watching it. I have gotten 30 - 40 % returns in last few years. Made up for the early part of the 2000 - 2003 which were fairly poor years on investments. Just saying you need to see what that will get you in your later years and what it will be worth with inflation and having to live on it without other methods. Please, talk to someone on what you need and how to get there now instead of doing it in last few years where you put in more and not be able to put in enough last few years. The earlier the better it will double and double and double.


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## jighed (Jul 20, 2006)

Fellows, this has turned into an interesting conversation, but, I just wanted to convey the importance of saving as much as you can to the younger 2coolers. I am surprised Dave Ramsey hasn't spoken up here, since the topic has turned to credit.
Anyway all the comments are good and I'm glad to see so many are disciplined enough to do it right. There it is...DISCIPLINE. Live within your means. You 20 and 30 yr olds listen to whats being said.


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## Slip (Jul 25, 2006)

I advised my son which recently got hired on at a local Chemical Plant to start at 15% in his new 401k. He did so. His retirement and company match is less than mine and only way to insure he has enough is to start high and can always lower it if absolutely has to later as he will always get returns on the amount he puts in early in life until he is ready to pull out. His is not married at this time and he wasn't used to making as much money as he is now, so start big and get used to putting in a larger amount and will not miss it. More advise is to never, never pull out of this 401k.


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## Freshwaterman (May 21, 2004)

jighead cudo's to you for sterling advice-----------i did "dave ramsey" before there was a dave ramsey, mid fifties 1.5 mil and still counting-----------younguns listen to ramsey !!!!!!!!! ---------- discipline discipline------ credit ???? don't need no stinking credit !!!!!! you do however need PATIENCE


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## Steelersfan (May 21, 2004)

You can build credit without being in debt to the credit card companies as long as you have the discipline that everyone is talking about. Get a good credit card (if you can qualify) that has no fees, low interest (just in case but hopefully it won't even matter), pays cash back or miles, etc. and charge only what you know you can pay off at the end of each month. You are still building credit but you aren't paying any interest. Really isn't rocket science but you do have to live within your means. If you can't write out that $300 to $500 check every month to pay off that credit card in full then don't do it and pay cash for everything. 

I learned my lesson well in college and it took me a couple years to recover from my credit card debt but I haven't paid a finance charge on my credit cards for 6 years now but still use them regularly. Also, make sure you have 3-4 months minimum of gross take home pay sitting in a savings account or money market account for an emergency fund. If something big comes up, you can charge it and then pay it off right away with the emergency fund. Or, if it isn't needed, that money just sits there and gets its little bit of interest. When you get more than you need for your emergency fund, transfer the extra to an IRA, CD, or some other instrument that will get you better interest. 

Wife and I both have 401ks (she puts in 10% and I have 13% going into mine) plus I will get a small pension from my company as well. As long as things stay stable, we should be ok but now we need to start saving for our 10 month old daughter's education.


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## MT Stringer (May 21, 2004)

Jesse, check with your company plan. You should be able to contribute more than 6%. I think we can go up to about 20%, but there is a catch. I believe there is a ceiling set by the feds that will only allow a maximum dollar amount of contributions per year. If you hit that, then payroll will prolly not take out the full amount for the remainder of the year and you might lose some of that company match. I found that out the hard way a couple of years ago. I was packing it in then suddenly, they didn't take out anything. OOPS! 

So, to fix that, I started off the next year like gang busters, then cut back some during the year and a little more later in the year until I was just about at the maximum contribution (total for the year) but the company still put in their match.

Also there were times when I couldn't contribute as much as I wanted, so when I got a raise, I increased the contribution a portion of that raise...then later another percent or 2. The more the better. It will definitly pay off in the long run.

Hope this helps.
Mike


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## t-dub (Jun 14, 2006)

I've got a lot of thoughts on this subject, as this is the business I'm in. My company handles all aspects of a company's retirement plan. I frequently go out and talk to groups of employees about retirement savings and it's really scary how many people are not saving anything or not saving enough for their retirement. I'm not talking about just 20 year olds, I'm also talking about guys in their 50's that want to retire in 10 years. The days of a company having a pension plan and someone receiving a pension payment are quickly coming to and end due to the cost to the company. That puts the the responsibility of saving on the individual, and they are not doing it! In twenty years, what's going to be the state of Social Security? They've already bumped the age to receive benefits for younger workers into the 70's. I don't know about you guys, but I get dumber everyday and don't really know if anyone is going to want to employee me when I'm 70. There are only so many greeter jobs available at Wal-Mart and Sams. IMHO, there are going to be big changes in the next 20 years to pay for all the people that are ill-prepared to retire. Those people that did save for their retirement are going to wind up paying for those that did not save. Taxes will be going up and social security benefits going down. Don't forget to take in to account the price of medical insurance if you retire early and are not old enough to be eligible for Medicare. It's huge. Scary stuff.

Go to your company's 401k website and use one of the calculators to see how much money you need to put away to replace your pre-retirement income and live off of it for 25 years. It's probably more than you expect. If you don't know where you're going, you're probably not going to get there.

Sorry for the rant.

TW


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## Kyle 1974 (May 10, 2006)

I've got a question. I try to save as much as I possibly can, but these calculaters seem to be different. I've used the ones on my companies 401K wesbite (vanguard), fool.com, and dave ramsey... and they all seem to have diiferent results. It will tell me how much I will have per month, for so X amount of years, but the biggest question I have is how much will X amount per month be worth in 30-40 years, especially when I'm about to keel over as a crusty old fart.

how much is a gallon of milk going to cost in 2037? $20,000 car today will be how much on 2040? (will we still have cars!??!?!?)

which calculaters do you guys use?


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## Lezz Go (Jun 27, 2006)

Let me clarify my ststement on credit card debt.

We have Visa, MC, and Discover. We use them sparingly. We pay the balances off religiously every month. My wife and I are blessed with good jobs and share the same philosophy on money. 

When I go to my banker for a flip house loan and he looks at our credit report, our debt to income ratio is very important.

We buy used late model cars, and finance them short term and pay cash for the toys like my 10 year old Explorer. It's nice not have a boat payment.


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## kinja (May 21, 2004)

Kyle, I use www.dinkytown.com A funny name but some good solid calculators. A fully funded retirement is good, except when you or your spouse need long term care. You can run through a bunch of money quickly when you are in LTC. I would advise checking into a long term care insurance policy. LTC policies are one of the few common grounds you'll find between financial advisors and insurance companies. Regards-Tom


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## t-dub (Jun 14, 2006)

Kyle1974,

All of the calculators use different assumptions. Let's just assume that inflation grows at 3.5%. That means that on average, everything will double in price every 20.5 years. So, everything staying equal, if you can live off of $50,000 a year now, in 20 years the same lifestyle will cost you $100,000. If you do the calculations and find that right now you could live off of a million dollar nest egg, that would need to be a two million dollar nest egg in 20 years.

TW


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## specktout (Aug 21, 2006)

The feds regulate the maximun employee contribution to $16000 this year, but if your over 50 yrs old you can contribute an additional $5000 a year.


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## specktout (Aug 21, 2006)

My 401k has averaged about 7.1% over the last 5 years, I would like to know what investment fund has made over 15% or more over the same time. I may want to change my investments


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## t-dub (Jun 14, 2006)

Specktrout,

A 7.1% return for the last 5 years is not bad! The S&P 500 has returned on average about 6% for the past 5 years. So assuming you're taking the same amount of risk as the S&P 500, you're doing pretty good. International funds WOULD HAVE gotten you 15% over the past 5 years.

TW


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## word-doctor (Sep 20, 2005)

I read the other day that there are a lot of folks in their late 70s and beyond _leaving_ Florida--they've run out of money.

I have a pretty good stash for retirement (I'm 38), but figure that once the Boomers get serious about AARP, I'm hosed and will be paying their bills until I'm dead! :spineyes:


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## MustangOrange (Jul 26, 2005)

I'm 26 (about to turn 27) & put 12% into my 401k and the company matches another 4% on top of that. Had a 27% return last year & both the fiancee and I will be vested in our retirement plans this year.


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## goatchze (Aug 1, 2006)

Credit cards aren't bad if you use them just like you would a debit card (or cash) realizing that YOU ARE SPENDING MONEY. My wife and i have several that we use all the time, but have yet to carry a month-to-month balance.

I'm lucky to have a good paying job straight out of college with no debt (except the mortgage, which doesn't count that much in my book). My wife and I are young and worked out a plan.

When we first got married, she was finishing her teachers certificate. In the meanwhile we had a certain "standard of living" off of my salary. When she started working we just decided that for the first few years we wouldn't touch her salary. We would maintain that same "standad of living". 100% of her salary now goes into retirement vehicles (plus I'm still contributing to my IRA like I was before she started working)

A teachers salary isn't much, but 100% really adds up fast. Before we have our first kid we hope to have a pretty sizable nest egg in the works. Right now time is on our side, so we plan to use it.

But not everyone is as blessed as we are. We were both lucky enough to finish college without any debt. If we were saddled with heaps of debt it would be a completely different story.

I'm 25, she's 24. We've been married 2 years.


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## specktout (Aug 21, 2006)

t-dub, Thanks for the reply, I thought I was missing something after reading slip knot's 30-40% return. I had been using Charles Scwab as my investment co. but have been doing better with my employer's investment co. "Hewit" I'm always looking fto make more, as we all are.


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## jighed (Jul 20, 2006)

Not to pat myself on the back, but I am glad I started this thread. It looks like alot of you are prepared, preparing or just getting started. 
Now, how do you convey all of this information to a knot headed 19 yr old? Who just got a job with a large company, great benefits and 401k ?
Thats the question.


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## goatchze (Aug 1, 2006)

jighed,

Take a fixed dollar amount...i dunno, a couple thousand bucks. Show him how much it will be worth later in life if he invests it NOW versus when he is 30, 40, so on.

That's what my incentive was. It's HUGE!


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## HonkyFin (May 28, 2004)

My daughter is 12 yrs old and she has a Roth IRA and when she is 35 she is projected to have a big asss lump of money ! 
and we contribute about $50.00 a month to it,,,including the lrge amount of monthly deposits that we do for our own Roth's !! And this is in combo to the 401k plans that my wife and I both participate in from work. Wouldnt you take the bosses money if he offered ??
Set it up for your children and they can learn early on about "paying yourselves FIRST" and then pay your bills.
They will thank you for it when they are grown.


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## StinkBait (May 31, 2004)

slip knot said:


> I advised my son which recently got hired on at a local Chemical Plant to start at 15% in his new 401k. He did so. His retirement and company match is less than mine and only way to insure he has enough is to start high and can always lower it if absolutely has to later as he will always get returns on the amount he puts in early in life until he is ready to pull out. His is not married at this time and he wasn't used to making as much money as he is now, so start big and get used to putting in a larger amount and will not miss it. More advise is to never, never pull out of this 401k.


Some dang good advice right there, especially for those new grads going from selling plasma to get beer money to making 30k-50k a year. START BIG, you will never miss it and thank yourself in 35-40 years!


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## Steelersfan (May 21, 2004)

*..*



HonkyFin said:


> My daughter is 12 yrs old and she has a Roth IRA and when she is 35 she is projected to have a big asss lump of money !
> and we contribute about $50.00 a month to it,,,including the lrge amount of monthly deposits that we do for our own Roth's !! And this is in combo to the 401k plans that my wife and I both participate in from work. Wouldnt you take the bosses money if he offered ??
> Set it up for your children and they can learn early on about "paying yourselves FIRST" and then pay your bills.
> They will thank you for it when they are grown.


Honkyfin,
I have been throwing around the idea with my wife about setting up something for our daughter but everything I have read seems to point to keeping assets out of the childs name for future college planning. I am not sure how a Roth IRA would affect financial aid for her when the time comes. For now, we just have a savings account set-up in our name but all the money is for her. When it gets to the right sum, we will probably get a CD to get a little better rate. I don't know how the 529 plans play into that either when help for financial aid is calculated. I definitely don't want to miss out on any "grants" or low cost loans for her when the time comes. 
hmmm...something to think about and more research for me, I guess.


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## Belt Sanders (Jun 30, 2004)

I am 5 years away. I am not counting on social security.


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## QBall (Jun 27, 2004)

*Great Thread!*

Like T-dub, I'm also in the investment business with a primary focus on retirement planning. Trying to convince twenty somethings to consider their retirement can be like banging your head against a brick wall. The best way to illustrate the importance of starting early to younger folks is to focus on the power of TIME.

Age 25 - Contributes $3,000 annually for 15 years at 8% average annual return.
After 15 years, account value is $81,000 with a $45,000 investment. If they don't put another penny in to age 65 (25 more years at 8%), account value has exceeded $550,000 with only the original $45,000 investment.

Age 35 - Starts contributing $3,000 annually through age 65 (30 years or $90,000 invested) at 8% average, and the account value is only $340,000.

This is a very simple yet powerful illustration when dealing with younger folks.

Kudos to those of you who have taken the necessary steps to reach your retirement goals. For those just starting out or just getting started, it's never too late, but every day you wait will cost you more.

Later......Q


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## QBall (Jun 27, 2004)

Steelersfan said:


> Honkyfin,
> I have been throwing around the idea with my wife about setting up something for our daughter but everything I have read seems to point to keeping assets out of the childs name for future college planning. I am not sure how a Roth IRA would affect financial aid for her when the time comes. For now, we just have a savings account set-up in our name but all the money is for her. When it gets to the right sum, we will probably get a CD to get a little better rate. I don't know how the 529 plans play into that either when help for financial aid is calculated. I definitely don't want to miss out on any "grants" or low cost loans for her when the time comes.
> hmmm...something to think about and more research for me, I guess.


The 529 plans work well for just this reason. The assets in the account belong to the account owner and not the beneficiary. Therefore, financial aid will be affected less by this type of account than say a custodial (UGMA/UTMA) account. The downside is the restrictions on what the 529 money can be used for. If your child opts not to go to college, then you may face penalties/taxes to take the money out for a non-qualified expense. 
Talk to your tax professional and your investment advisor and see what suits your situation best. There are many routes to reach the same destination, and not all are right for every family.

Also, if you choose a 529, or any investment for that matter, do your homework. The different plans out there can have very different fee structures.

Good luck.......Q


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## HonkyFin (May 28, 2004)

Steelersfan said:


> Honkyfin,
> I have been throwing around the idea with my wife about setting up something for our daughter but everything I have read seems to point to keeping assets out of the childs name for future college planning. I am not sure how a Roth IRA would affect financial aid for her when the time comes. For now, we just have a savings account set-up in our name but all the money is for her. When it gets to the right sum, we will probably get a CD to get a little better rate. I don't know how the 529 plans play into that either when help for financial aid is calculated. I definitely don't want to miss out on any "grants" or low cost loans for her when the time comes.
> hmmm...something to think about and more research for me, I guess.


You can start with a small amount of money for either a Roth and 529 ,,or both 
I went to AG Edwards and I was just thinking about a college fund for my daughter and Roths for my wife and myself. After some discussion , I decided to open up my kids Roth and on her 18th birthday give her the acct. statements and turning it over to her responsibilities.
We got it all started with about $500.00, with $50.00 starting my daughters Roth and we set up the monthly deduction from our bank account with the sum being split 4 ways. You can even adjust that deduction online to suit your financial needs because not every month you can give up the same amount.
I would assume that when applying for financial aid these days , since there is so much competition, it would affect the amount of aid you guy's would recieve, but that 529 will certainly help fill the gap. 
Start now and you will get some serious piece of mind.


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## reelumin (Nov 16, 2006)

slip knot said:


> I will agree with earlier post. 6% going into a 401 is not near enough. I sounds like the final results will be great at that rate, but with inflation, you need to put in more. Does your company match it in any way? If not, you need to put in much more. Mine has grown a lot over the years, but after 30 years, it still is not enought to retire on and company matches pretty well. In 5 years however, I plan on retiring and should do very well but I put in 13% with company putting in even more. I also still have a pension besides the 401k. I will not be rich but will be able to live at same style I presently do. Maybe you need to really talk to a financial person to see where your 6% will actually land you and see what you will need. I have gotten huge returns on my money by watching the funds and moving to maximize returns also. It does pay to watch the investments or get an advisor.


Retirement is different from one person to the next. Many will not need much money to survive if they catch and eat fish or hunt and eat venison, doves, wild hog etc.. I believe that is where one should start to plan. What kind of lifestyle do you plan on living when you retire? Then, save to reach that goal.


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## State_Vet (Oct 10, 2006)

6% goes into my state retirement, then I put 5% into my 401K each month. My VA disability check goes into a savings account that I forget about.


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## bluefin (Aug 16, 2005)

I had a discussion with my accountant about how so many young people are living the high life - big houses and expensive cars. He told me that 95% of them are in debt up to their eyeballs. He's had them crying, cursing and calling their daddy and mommy from his office so they can meet their tax obligations. I live rather frugally given my income. I max out my SEP plan plus some. I'm not rich. Don't expect to be. I just don't want to be an old man circling my mailbox for the next ss check.


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## Slip (Jul 25, 2006)

specktout said:


> My 401k has averaged about 7.1% over the last 5 years, I would like to know what investment fund has made over 15% or more over the same time. I may want to change my investments


My company has changed the 401k carrier this past year, but before switching, it showed my personnel rate of return around 23% for the last five years and over 15% for the last 10 years. So far, this year from January - May, I show 23% with most of the year left. I watch all options and switch if needed, but don't switch very often. It requires some work however to monitor all the funds offered and don't switch based on a one month high return, but make sure it is consistant for a while. I have been blessed with good returns for a good while. I have also lost at times, but sometimes, I had to cut my losses and adjust as needed. Guess it doesn't work for everyone, but it has for me, but I do pray for wisdom in my finances and God has blessed my funds.
This is the fund I currently am investing in "Dimensional Emerging Markets Value Portfolio (DFEVX)". Look at last 5 years using one of the yahoo or others. This is a Fidelity fund and is great. Always a risk, but has a good history.
This is not for everyone, but I want to maximize and I plan on retiring in 5 years at 55. A goal I can go with accoring to financial advisor and will invest more carefully closer to that age.


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## jeffscout (Jun 22, 2004)

Save, save, save. Invest wisely, max out your 401k's, and pay yourself first.

One thing I'm surprised hasn't been mentioned in the 6 pages I've read is the tax benefits of investing pre-tax dollars in your 401k. 401's come out pre-tax, so for every $1 you invest you save you basically get your tax bracket as a discount on that $1. In other words, to invest $1, in a Roth or other IRA, you have to earn $1.25, $1.30, $1.35, or whatever your real tax is on that income before you get the $1 in your checking account. So, not only do most companies give you free money through their match, but you get pre-tax savings on the investment.

My wife and I are blessed in many ways, one is both of our careers. We work very hard, we save a lot of money, and we are on track to retire before 55. We are currently investing in a second home that we intend to enjoy for several years as a vacation home and then turn it for some profit. Had we not saved and been smart not only with our money but our credit, we could not do the second home.

I think healthcare will be the biggest struggle we all face in retirement. With the baby boomer generation retiring (and thus not paying FICA/Medicare tax deductions), the cost per payroll dollar to support those programs will skyrocket. Individual insurance will also be extremely high. That scares me as it will most likely not follow the same curve as general inflation.


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## BritishSlave (Aug 17, 2004)

In 1996, ARCO changed our 401K to allow reallocation and contributions on a bi-weekly basis, so we could take advantage of high overtime periods. We were working 12-14 hours a day at the time, so I changed mine to the maxable allowable rate. I also increase it annually by the amount of my pay raises. When the OT slowed, the wife and I made a decision to leave it alone and see if we could get by. We did, had to cut some play trips, but still today, I'm at the max. I have a defined benefit pension plan, but even with over 36 years of participation, the 401K is what will provide the majority of my retirement income.

I'm not giving investment advice, but check into http://www.smart401K.com for help managing company . It has been very good for me.


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## super-Fish-ial (Apr 3, 2006)

*Roth for a minor*

Honkyfin -

Is it possible to establish a Roth for a minor without "earned income"? I would like to do this for my nephews but the only thing I can come up with as earned income is proceeds from their 4H projects - which is a little but not as much as I would like to put in a Roth for them.

Just curious if I was misinformed or if there is a "job" I need to find for my nephews.

Thanks for your response.


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## waterwolf (Mar 6, 2005)

Back from 2006 this post...still looking at 55 maybe 57 to retire...started pumping in 16% into 401. Just found out last week our retiree medical will be paid for..this is a plus for sure.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk


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## BullyARed (Jun 19, 2010)

I retired 3 months ago and it looked like I wasn't ready yet. It's so boring staying at home all day (maybe due to the weather and couldn't fish for several weeks). So, I have gone back to work for two weeks doing 6 months data warehouse consultant work for an oil/gas drilling company. We discussed and are planning to move to Apopka, central FLA after 2 more years. It seems a very nice city north of Orlando with many lakes and about 2hrs from both coasts.


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## catndahats (Sep 15, 2005)

20 years teaching here too and ready to retire in a couple years. Also, almost 20 years in the corporate world before teaching....TRS will provide most of my retirement, and SS will kick in a VERY SMALL portion additionally considering that I paid into SS for almost 20 years.

It's criminal (literally) that teachers lose approximately 75% of their social security benefits after paying in, and serving as teachers in their communities. That GPO (government pension offset) law from the '80s needs to be abolished/repealed. As I understand it, teachers are one of the few state/federal employees that are penalized by this law.

Will we make it retired? I'm sure we will, but have included post retirement work into our plans.:texasflag

EDIT: just realized this thread started almost 10 years ago...I must be a slow reader.



DannyMac said:


> yep, I have 34 yrs. in coaching and thanks to teacher retirement and some timely investments my wife and I will be ok. I would like to see the rule that penalizes us from drawing our SS removed. I have a small amount paid in but its all mine and I want it.


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## BullyARed (Jun 19, 2010)

jighed said:


> Not to pat myself on the back, but I am glad I started this thread. It looks like alot of you are prepared, preparing or just getting started.
> Now, how do you convey all of this information to a knot headed 19 yr old? Who just got a job with a large company, great benefits and 401k ?
> Thats the question.


Tell him.

1. Get along with boss and co-workers.
2. Be very good at what he does and gain all the knowledge on the job he could.
3. Put 15% on 401K and 10% on Roth IRA (for any business he may get into in the future and won't be tied up till 59.5yo)
4. Don't spend on expensive stuffs like iPhone, sporty car, stereo, boat, etc...
4. Find a rich girl, then (4) is maybe ok! Well he can't get a rich girl unless he has a chick magnet car!


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## ChuChu (Jan 23, 2010)

catndahats said:


> 20 years teaching here too and ready to retire in a couple years. Also, almost 20 years in the corporate world before teaching....TRS will provide most of my retirement, and SS will kick in a VERY SMALL portion additionally considering that I paid into SS for almost 20 years.
> 
> It's criminal (literally) that teachers lose approximately 75% of their social security benefits after paying in, and serving as teachers in their communities. That GPO (government pension offset) law from the '80s needs to be abolished/repealed. As I understand it, teachers are one of the few state/federal employees that are penalized by this law.
> 
> ...


The offset law was passed to stop the double dipping. A postmaster retires after 20 years, then delivers the Mexia newspaper for four years and then "retires" again and draws government retirement AND Social Security. Yes, the basic amount, but for the rest of his life.
No, that law is as good as Congress has ever passed.


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## ChuChu (Jan 23, 2010)

waterwolf said:


> Back from 2006 this post...still looking at 55 maybe 57 to retire...started pumping in 16% into 401. Just found out last week our retiree medical will be paid for..this is a plus for sure.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk


Not sure who you worked for, but check that retiree medical. Some have such high out of pocket that it's not worth a dime. Get a copy of the plan and read it and have a retiree medical specialist review it with you.


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## TrueblueTexican (Aug 29, 2005)

*Retire?*

Know far too many who have worked for me, took retirement and were dead within four years,

WORK at something it will keep you sharp , make ya some money and keep you young.

I don't ever intend to RETIRE, I intend to WORK as I see fit, not as some company tells me what to do.


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## Bigj (Jul 22, 2007)

I pulled the plug in January was sick and tired of my JOB 35 years there. I was not in any 401 due to several divorces .After crunching the number between Retirement from several other places I worked that I drew Retirement from IM doing ok Have no Credit Card debt just House note Car note Motorcycle note... Don't regret it at all ----- Hard part learning to BUDGET only get paid once a month


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## RRbohemian (Dec 20, 2009)

I'm planning at 62. The medical part will be the tricky part. Will sell the house and move to a cheaper, less crowded area. If it was just me I would move to my island camp and could live on less than $500 a month probably but that ain't happening with a wife. Women, they just complicate your life.


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## Slip (Jul 25, 2006)

I am pulling the plug officially February 1st of next year, however, I will Start vacation at the first of November till the February 1st, so I am finishing soon. I will retire one month shy of 40 years with my company.


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## uncle dave (Jul 27, 2008)

Making the money for retirement is the first part. the second is keeping it after you retire.


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## bubbas kenner (Sep 4, 2010)

Depressed no fishing no money just Jesus, His promises are best anyway.Mens ways fail.


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## Tortuga (May 21, 2004)

Slip said:


> I am pulling the plug officially February 1st of next year, however, I will Start vacation at the first of November till the February 1st, so I am finishing soon. I will retire one month shy of 40 years with my company.


Congrats, Dale !!!

NOW...what are you gonna do with the NEXT 40 years of your life ??..:rotfl:


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## MarkU (Jun 3, 2013)

Nothing is guaranteed, especially interest in 401K, or retirement accounts. So you financial planners out there. Show me a guaranteed 6% ROI for the next 20 years. I have a lot of money to give you. I mean guaranteed return, every year at 6%. No loss, like we had 6-8 years back, or in the 80's, or late 99-2000. 

I will probably work in my business in some capacity until I die. God willing!


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## Tortuga (May 21, 2004)

MarkU said:


> Nothing is guaranteed, especially interest in 401K, or retirement accounts. So you financial planners out there. Show me a guaranteed 6% ROI for the next 20 years. I have a lot of money to give you. I mean guaranteed return, every year at 6%. No loss, like we had 6-8 years back, or in the 80's, or late 99-2000.
> 
> *I will probably work in my business in some capacity until I die. God willing*!


...Thee and ME, Mark....and...lemme know when you stumble on that 6% *GUARANTEED.*..(and guaranteed by whom ??) Too late now to be taking any chances....:rotfl:


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## DonSteiner (May 17, 2016)

MarkU said:


> Nothing is guaranteed, especially interest in 401K, or retirement accounts. So you financial planners out there. Show me a guaranteed 6% ROI for the next 20 years. I have a lot of money to give you. I mean guaranteed return, every year at 6%. No loss, like we had 6-8 years back, or in the 80's, or late 99-2000.
> 
> I will probably work in my business in some capacity until I die. God willing!


Giving up because no one can guarantee you 6% is a bad attitude and will be the reason you'll have to work your whole life. Markets go up and markets go down but over the long haul your nest egg will grow. That's why you're told to start as young as possible.


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## ChuChu (Jan 23, 2010)

There's money out there, you just need to hire an investment team to go out and find it for you.


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## ChuChu (Jan 23, 2010)

MarkU said:


> Nothing is guaranteed, especially interest in 401K, or retirement accounts. So you financial planners out there. Show me a guaranteed 6% ROI for the next 20 years. I have a lot of money to give you. I mean guaranteed return, every year at 6%. No loss, like we had 6-8 years back, or in the 80's, or late 99-2000.
> 
> I will probably work in my business in some capacity until I die. God willing!


I'm getting 8% till the day I die. Is that good for these days?


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## Bigj (Jul 22, 2007)

2 things that we are guaranteed Death & Taxes


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## MarkU (Jun 3, 2013)

DonSteiner said:


> Giving up because no one can guarantee you 6% is a bad attitude and will be the reason you'll have to work your whole life. Markets go up and markets go down but over the long haul your nest egg will grow. That's why you're told to start as young as possible.


I am a very conservative investor. The reason I'll work until I die is. I own my business, it's my baby. I enjoy manufacturing, and creating tangible products, and wealth I started off my business writing checks to the equivalent of $130K for equipment, and a lease space. That was almost 10 years ago. My ROI on my money. Has beaten even Bernie Madoff's best returns. I control how the money is handled. What investments to make (personnel, inventory, equipment) to further the success of my investment.

I do have other investments. But none are even close to the ROI in my business.

Nothing is guaranteed in life. Of course death, taxes, and my wife getting the last word in, on everything. :brew2:


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## MarkU (Jun 3, 2013)

Tortuga said:


> ...Thee and ME, Mark....and...lemme know when you stumble on that 6% *GUARANTEED.*..(and guaranteed by whom ??) Too late now to be taking any chances....:rotfl:


LOL! Exactly! Man I wish I had the money I put into Nortel... Another one of those, "Don't get out, wait, it will turn around" Financial Adviser quagmires. Or the, "See, it all came back... That is, the losses only took 7 years to get you back to where you were 7 years ago....

I'm just looking for a simple 6% guaranteed investment.  :brew2:


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## Tortuga (May 21, 2004)

If we're talking ROI...I can depend on 50% to 100% each year on my own business.. "working" (LOL) about 4 hours a week..if I want to....and I can sure put beans on the table with that...:rotfl:

Always wondered ..if the financial advisors..can guarantee all these phenomenal returns...why they would share it with me... Looks like they could be phenomenally wealthy without having to spend time advising customers for peanuts....


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## Tortuga (May 21, 2004)

ChuChu said:


> I'm getting 8% till the day I die. Is that good for these days?


Excellent, ChuChu..for these days.. Sounds like an Annuity..and they are good investments (of your own money) unless the Insurance Company that administers it goes South.... Think AIG...largest in the WORLD..and bit the dust..until WE bailed it out...

Good luck...


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## bigfishtx (Jul 17, 2007)

ChuChu said:


> I'm getting 8% till the day I die. Is that good for these days?


Through what investment?


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## ChuChu (Jan 23, 2010)

bigfishtx said:


> Through what investment?


MetLife annuity


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## catndahats (Sep 15, 2005)

It's a big world and we disagree. That's fine as I made my own career choices, but I don't see it as double dipping...and maybe only in my case since it effects me personally. I have worked over 40 years, but essentially only get credit for the last 20 as a teacher. That's why the law should be repealed, or make it apply to ALL state/federal employees including military and civil service.



ChuChu said:


> The offset law was passed to stop the double dipping. A postmaster retires after 20 years, then delivers the Mexia newspaper for four years and then "retires" again and draws government retirement AND Social Security. Yes, the basic amount, but for the rest of his life.
> No, that law is as good as Congress has ever passed.


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## rut-ro (Oct 12, 2008)

Life is not about how much money you make, it's about what you do with the money you do make. 34 and everything paid off including house, about 13 more years with company im at now before I start my second career. Never plan to fully retire but plan on giving my daughter a good neat egg when the wife and I are gone.


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## warlock (Mar 27, 2006)

catndahats said:


> It's a big world and we disagree. That's fine as I made my own career choices, but I don't see it as double dipping...and maybe only in my case since it effects me personally. I have worked over 40 years, but essentially only get credit for the last 20 as a teacher. That's why the law should be repealed, or make it apply to ALL state/federal employees including military and civil service.


The military pays into SS...and no pension for the most part unless you do 20 (some exceptions to this)


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## fishingcacher (Mar 29, 2008)

There is nothing wrong with using credit cards to build credit as long as you pay the balance each and every month. The credit history helps your credit score so that if you want to buy a home you get a better loan.


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## Oso Blanco (Oct 17, 2010)

Bigj said:


> 2 things that we are guaranteed Death & Taxes


No just death. 47 % pay no taxes. In most cases they get money back from the feds that they do not put in that offsets any sales tax.


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## ChuChu (Jan 23, 2010)

catndahats said:


> It's a big world and we disagree. That's fine as I made my own career choices, but I don't see it as double dipping...and maybe only in my case since it effects me personally. I have worked over 40 years, but essentially only get credit for the last 20 as a teacher. That's why the law should be repealed, or make it apply to ALL state/federal employees including military and civil service.


Why don't your first 20 apply? If you paid into SS, Teachers Retirement, or any other gov. plan you should get credit. Unless you drew it out early.

The offset law is absolutely necessary. Why should anyone draw SS if they didn't pay into it?


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## Slip (Jul 25, 2006)

Tortuga said:


> Congrats, Dale !!!
> 
> NOW...what are you gonna do with the NEXT 40 years of your life ??..:rotfl:


Not so sure Jim about the next 40, but hope to enjoy some of that. Time to get back in the shop and enjoy that, camping, traveling, or what ever. Likely will do a little working off and on possibly with consulting.... We'll see anyway.


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## 223AI (May 7, 2012)

ChuChu said:


> MetLife annuity


What are your surrender charges if you need that money right away, and how quickly can you get it? What are your annual fees? Do you know the commission percentage paid to the insurance guy that sold it to you?


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## ChuChu (Jan 23, 2010)

223AI said:


> What are your surrender charges if you need that money right away, and how quickly can you get it? What are your annual fees? Do you know the commission percentage paid to the insurance guy that sold it to you?


I have about 1/2 of my retirement in the annuity. The rest of the money is in two IRA's, one Fidelity manages, one I manage. I cannot see any reason at all for needing the money in the annuity before I die. The other accounts are available in about 3 days. The annuity pays me monthly and that pays the bills and buys the groceries. Social Security pays for play. If I need extra cash, the IRA I manage takes care of that.
I have other money market accounts that cover emergency needs.
This plan works for me, and yes we have faced the worst I can think of with my wife's cancer and yet we are still moving forward with no changes in the financial plan. 
As to some of your questions, I can only answer that there are no annual fees. The others I would have to look up.


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## OG Donkey (Aug 22, 2007)

OK...I have to chime in...Full Disclosure**I am a CRPS designation holder that build open architecture qualified plans for companies (Chartered Retirement Specialist, I hold FINRA series 7, 31, 63, 65 and Group 1 Insurance Licenses and have been in practice over 15 years....)

It scares me a bit to see some of the comments on this post....First off, it isn't a percentage that truly matters into a qualified plan-you do want to at least hit the max if there is a match. We are all limited by the IRS on what we can contribute to a 401k, 403b, 457 plan....Most of you have a 401k...It is a max of 18k/year under the age of 50 or 24k/yr (catch up) if over the age of 50.

As far a credit goes, yes, it's important; however, there is manual underwriting for mortgages (google it) Also, if you ever spend the equivalent of more than $1 (because of interest) for something you could have bought with only $1 if makes no financial sense---altho your lenders (bankers, credit unions, loan officers, the car credit guy) will love you. I understand goods and services are expensive and that new shiny truck we all want many can't buy with cash....but be smart people...please....or go ahead for vote for Bernie...If you want truly inderpendent advice from someone who practices what he preaches, feel free to reach out.


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## Billphish (Apr 17, 2006)

OG Donkey said:


> OK...I have to chime in...Full Disclosure**I am a CRPS designation holder that build open architecture qualified plans for companies (Chartered Retirement Specialist, I hold FINRA series 7, 31, 63, 65 and Group 1 Insurance Licenses and have been in practice over 15 years....)
> 
> It scares me a bit to see some of the comments on this post....First off, it isn't a percentage that truly matters into a qualified plan-you do want to at least hit the max if there is a match. We are all limited by the IRS on what we can contribute to a 401k, 403b, 457 plan....Most of you have a 401k...It is a max of 18k/year under the age of 50 or 24k/yr (catch up) if over the age of 50.
> 
> As far a credit goes, yes, it's important; however, there is manual underwriting for mortgages (google it) Also, if you ever spend the equivalent of more than $1 (because of interest) for something you could have bought with only $1 if makes no financial sense---altho your lenders (bankers, credit unions, loan officers, the car credit guy) will love you. I understand goods and services are expensive and that new shiny truck we all want many can't buy with cash....but be smart people...please....or go ahead for vote for Bernie...If you want truly inderpendent advice from someone who practices what he preaches, feel free to reach out.


 So you pay cash for everything?


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## OG Donkey (Aug 22, 2007)

yes.


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## poppadawg (Aug 10, 2007)

ChuChu said:


> MetLife annuity


Do you know if that rate still available? How long ago did you buy it? That's a great rate. I'm thinking whats the catch?


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## MarkU (Jun 3, 2013)

Billphish said:


> So you pay cash for everything?


To add to this. Do you have a guaranteed 6% ROI?  :brew2:


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## poppadawg (Aug 10, 2007)

OG Donkey said:


> yes.


 Why? CC are extremely convenient. Sounds like you are good with money. So paying it off every month would not be an issue. I rarely pay with cash.


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## ChuChu (Jan 23, 2010)

poppadawg said:


> Do you know if that rate still available? How long ago did you buy it? That's a great rate. I'm thinking whats the catch?


I have had it for 2 1/2 years. I'm not sure if the rate is still available or not. I can give you my Fidelity representative if you would like to contact him.


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## Tail Chaser (May 24, 2004)

I wish I had an extra $18,000 a year I could be pumping into a 401K.


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## BullyARed (Jun 19, 2010)

Tail Chaser said:


> I wish I had an extra $18,000 a year I could be pumping into a 401K.


No problem, becoming a 2Cool fishing guide on weekend! Having fun and making $18K!


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## OG Donkey (Aug 22, 2007)

I'll try to address a few of the comments here:

That 8% annuity mentioned I'm sure was bought YEARS ago--and no, with rates where they are now it is not available (I'm fully licensed to sell annuties, but don't---don't really want to get into why as my fingers will get tired of typing)...let's just say it's a great product for the insurance guys.

Although the word "guarantee" should never be used when describing any investment, there are some vehicles that are paying interest in that range (in the alternative investment space). Remember, there is a risk/return relationship. The "safer" the investment, the lower the return....like CDs...very safe, very low interest payments....I call them cerificates of depression 

NEWSFLASH** THERE IS NO "PERFECT" INVESTMENT***
We all want 3 things:
1. Safety
2: High Return
3: Liquidity

I Don't care what investments you choose (stocks, bonds, real estate, oil derricks, gold, art...blah blah) you are ONLY ALLOWED TO PICK 2 out of the 3 listed above...Therefore, there is no perfect investment...

For those who use credit cards and pay them off each month-good on ya...many don't. I use my debit card for my purchases....I actually haven't carried a credit card in years.


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## ChuChu (Jan 23, 2010)

Tail Chaser said:


> I wish I had an extra $18,000 a year I could be pumping into a 401K.


You probably do and just don't realize it. My wife and I made the decision to invest the maximum allowed after I saw a buy out proposal from ARCO in 1994. I saw there wasn't enough money offered so I took a transfer to Houston. We were already investing an amount that allowed us to get the company max match. We started adding to that an amount equal to my pay raises. After a change in the plan that allowed us to invest more, we went to the max allowed by law which was an amount equal to 27% of my wages from ARCO/BP. It was hard at times and we did without some toys. We did end up with enough to live comfortably and enjoy life.

Save till it hurts.


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## ChuChu (Jan 23, 2010)

OG Donkey said:


> I'll try to address a few of the comments here:
> 
> That 8% annuity mentioned I'm sure was bought YEARS ago--and no, with rates where they are now it is not available (I'm fully licensed to sell annuties, but don't---don't really want to get into why as my fingers will get tired of typing)...let's just say it's a great product for the insurance guys.
> .


It was bought in January 2014. I bought it through Fidelity Investments. 
I guess I need to add that I pay reduced fees for my managed account, the annuity, and other services due to my former employment with BP. That was a benefit offered by Fidelity to retain the employees accounts, active and retired.


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## OG Donkey (Aug 22, 2007)

if it was bought in 2014, I can assure you it is a VA (variable annuity), NOT a fixed 8% annuity. It may have provided you 8% since then, but it is not a fixed 8% product....that is, the same investments outside that annuity would have provided the same returns....without the extra expenses


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## bigfishtx (Jul 17, 2007)

OG Donkey said:


> I'll try to address a few of the comments here:
> 
> That 8% annuity mentioned I'm sure was bought YEARS ago--and no, with rates where they are now it is not available (I'm fully licensed to sell annuties, but don't---don't really want to get into why as my fingers will get tired of typing)...let's just say it's a great product for the insurance guys.
> 
> ...


So true.

Right now, reality says we need to save enough to live off the principal. At a rate of 1% which is what you get on CD's, we are talking about a lot of money to get you a $50K annual income.

I consider the safest investments right now are large, blue chip stocks that have a history of paying dividends for many decades. You will see a return of 2-5% on these investments. Not great, but, it will generate some cash flow.

There have been many people taken to the cleaners by a slick annuity salesman. Buyer beware. There is a reason why every large bank has a department selling them, because, they are good for the seller, not always so good for the buyer.


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## ChuChu (Jan 23, 2010)

OG Donkey said:


> if it was bought in 2014, I can assure you it is a VA (variable annuity), NOT a fixed 8% annuity. It may have provided you 8% since then, but it is not a fixed 8% product....that is, the same investments outside that annuity would have provided the same returns....without the extra expenses


Well, whatever. The contract guarantees me a fixed income for the rest of my life. That is all that matters to me. What my heirs get after I die, I really don't care.


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## hook'n'em (Aug 11, 2007)

*Teaching*



DannyMac said:


> yep, I have 34 yrs. in coaching and thanks to teacher retirement and some timely investments my wife and I will be ok. I would like to see the rule that penalizes us from drawing our SS removed. I have a small amount paid in but its all mine and I want it.


I would like to retire from the business world when I'm 60 and teach high school business classes and maybe coach golf. But I'm not interested in losing nearly $2,000 / month in social security I have put in.

This law needs to be changed ASAP.


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## ChuChu (Jan 23, 2010)

hook'n'em said:


> I would like to retire from the business world when I'm 60 and teach high school business classes and maybe coach golf. But I'm not interested in losing nearly $2,000 / month in social security I have put in.
> 
> This law needs to be changed ASAP.


Nope. If you are going to retire from the business world at 60, why don't you draw the SS and teach part time?

The law stops people from paying in four quarters and then drawing SS for life. That is part of SS's problems. Too many freeloaders.


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## ChuChu (Jan 23, 2010)

OG Donkey said:


> if it was bought in 2014, I can assure you it is a VA (variable annuity), NOT a fixed 8% annuity. It may have provided you 8% since then, but it is not a fixed 8% product....that is, the same investments outside that annuity would have provided the same returns....without the extra expenses


You are right. It is a variable interest rate annuity. Every December they look at the interest rates and adjust. If rates are up, I get more money per month. If they go down, I still get what I'm drawing today. My income can go up but never down.


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## OG Donkey (Aug 22, 2007)

chu--I'm not here to poopoo your annuity. I just wanted to clarify some things that were on this post. I hope it is is a good investment for you, I just know most people don't understand annuities and their moving parts and expenses...like CDSC expenses, m&e, etc....also what is taxable and what the true death benefits are...in MY point of view, it is not a one size fits all investment and unfortunately, insurance salesmen that are only licensed to sell them spin it that way...


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## tstorm5 (Aug 27, 2009)

People are different now days. Everyone has to have a car, including the kids. Everyone has a cell phone and cable or Dish TV. Everyone needs flat screens in every room and wifi and routers and netflix and X-box and the list goes on and on. The days are long gone where people had only one car in the family. The worst thing most people never consider is "Eating Out". If people ever looked at their Restaurant bills for a year they would be shocked. I'm sure I could look at almost anyone's annual expanses and save them $10,000 a year without a lot of effort. If the desire to save and retire happily is there, then the means are available. 
I guarantee you, most of the folks are NOT going to be independently wealthy and not have to worry about retirement. 
I also guarantee you folks now days want "FUN". Boats, Jet Ski's, trips to wherever, Cars that say look at me, the best cell phones, campers and all the other junk that goes along with life.

Saving for retirement is easy to do, you just have to decide whats important and what you can really afford. Its nice to be like the jones' but its a lot nicer to look at a large nest egg when you turn 55-60 and staring retirement in the face.


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## fishingcacher (Mar 29, 2008)

I would just wish there was more cowbell!


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## ChuChu (Jan 23, 2010)

OG Donkey said:


> chu--I'm not here to poopoo your annuity. I just wanted to clarify some things that were on this post. I hope it is is a good investment for you, I just know most people don't understand annuities and their moving parts and expenses...like CDSC expenses, m&e, etc....also what is taxable and what the true death benefits are...in MY point of view, it is not a one size fits all investment and unfortunately, insurance salesmen that are only licensed to sell them spin it that way...


As I said before, it works for me. Anyone that is not an investment guru should hire an investment firm. I personally don't have the time or the expertise to manage my investments. I tried that once and rode Munder Net Net A all the way down. So I turned everything over to Fidelity and still today tell my rep I hired them to make me money, don't bother me. And they have done me good. My rep saw my needs and suggested this annuity and I looked at it for over a year and finally decided that it met my needs. And so far it has. Please understand, as long as it pays me what it does till I die, I could care less what happens next. I didn't work my *** off for all those years to make my kids wealthy. If they get something at my end, so be it, but that does not calculate into my investments. Took some time, but I think Fidelity finally understands that. 
Oh, the wife is taken care of if I die tomorrow.


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## ChuChu (Jan 23, 2010)

OG Donkey said:


> chu--I'm not here to poopoo your annuity. I just wanted to clarify some things that were on this post. I hope it is is a good investment for you, I just know most people don't understand annuities and their moving parts and expenses...like CDSC expenses, m&e, etc....also what is taxable and what the true death benefits are...in MY point of view, it is not a one size fits all investment and unfortunately, insurance salesmen that are only licensed to sell them spin it that way...


Insurance salesmen are like Amway salesmen to me. I only trust one and he sells only senior supplemental medical insurance.


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## Slip (Jul 25, 2006)

tstorm5 said:


> People are different now days. Everyone has to have a car, including the kids. Everyone has a cell phone and cable or Dish TV. Everyone needs flat screens in every room and wifi and routers and netflix and X-box and the list goes on and on. The days are long gone where people had only one car in the family. The worst thing most people never consider is "Eating Out". If people ever looked at their Restaurant bills for a year they would be shocked. I'm sure I could look at almost anyone's annual expanses and save them $10,000 a year without a lot of effort. If the desire to save and retire happily is there, then the means are available.
> I guarantee you, most of the folks are NOT going to be independently wealthy and not have to worry about retirement.
> I also guarantee you folks now days want "FUN". Boats, Jet Ski's, trips to wherever, Cars that say look at me, the best cell phones, campers and all the other junk that goes along with life.
> 
> Saving for retirement is easy to do, you just have to decide whats important and what you can really afford. Its nice to be like the jones' but its a lot nicer to look at a large nest egg when you turn 55-60 and staring retirement in the face.


People can't afford what they want because they bought what they wanted. Thanks to this forum and gracious people yearly spreading the Dave Ramsey books, I am now able to retire feeling better about doing so. No debt really helps with a good pension and 401 funding my retirement.


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## poppadawg (Aug 10, 2007)

There is definitely a mind set of "I would rather enjoy my money now than when I'm old". No way in hell do I want to be old and poor. Especially for a bunch of shiney krap that depreciates like crazy every year. And it is multi generational. Boomers are just as broke as the millennials.


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## Stuart (May 21, 2004)

tstorm5 said:


> People are different now days. Everyone has to have a car, including the kids. Everyone has a cell phone and cable or Dish TV. Everyone needs flat screens in every room and wifi and routers and netflix and X-box and the list goes on and on. The days are long gone where people had only one car in the family. The worst thing most people never consider is "Eating Out". If people ever looked at their Restaurant bills for a year they would be shocked. I'm sure I could look at almost anyone's annual expanses and save them $10,000 a year without a lot of effort. If the desire to save and retire happily is there, then the means are available.
> I guarantee you, most of the folks are NOT going to be independently wealthy and not have to worry about retirement.
> I also guarantee you folks now days want "FUN". Boats, Jet Ski's, trips to wherever, Cars that say look at me, the best cell phones, campers and all the other junk that goes along with life.
> 
> Saving for retirement is easy to do, you just have to decide whats important and what you can really afford. Its nice to be like the jones' but its a lot nicer to look at a large nest egg when you turn 55-60 and staring retirement in the face.


 ^^^^ This all day long


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## ChuChu (Jan 23, 2010)

There are so many things to consider about retirement. I had to plan on how to cover the gap between when I retired to when I started drawing SS, then work on what it actually takes to live. Everything was paid for except a Heloc loan on the house, but it wasn't an area of concern. Once I bought the annuity, I thought it was going to be smooth sailing from now on. But in a couple of years, I have to start taking the minimum withdrawal from the IRA's. That sucks. That will double my income which means IRS is going to get more of it.


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## ChuChu (Jan 23, 2010)

Stuart said:


> ^^^^ This all day long


I am amazed at how little people save for retirement. I promise SS is going to be a disappointment to a lot of people.


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## Rubberback (Sep 9, 2008)

ChuChu said:


> I am amazed at how little people save for retirement. I promise SS is going to be a disappointment to a lot of people.


Most anything from the Gov. is disappointing.


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## cuzn dave (Nov 29, 2008)

No.
I got tired, though...


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## duckmania (Jun 3, 2014)

tstorm5 said:


> People are different now days. Everyone has to have a car, including the kids. Everyone has a cell phone and cable or Dish TV. Everyone needs flat screens in every room and wifi and routers and netflix and X-box and the list goes on and on. The days are long gone where people had only one car in the family. The worst thing most people never consider is "Eating Out". If people ever looked at their Restaurant bills for a year they would be shocked. I'm sure I could look at almost anyone's annual expanses and save them $10,000 a year without a lot of effort. If the desire to save and retire happily is there, then the means are available.
> I guarantee you, most of the folks are NOT going to be independently wealthy and not have to worry about retirement.
> I also guarantee you folks now days want "FUN". Boats, Jet Ski's, trips to wherever, Cars that say look at me, the best cell phones, campers and all the other junk that goes along with life.
> 
> Saving for retirement is easy to do, you just have to decide whats important and what you can really afford. Its nice to be like the jones' but its a lot nicer to look at a large nest egg when you turn 55-60 and staring retirement in the face.


There is a lot of truth to this. Its been kind of a double edged sword for my wife and I though. We're both accountants and worked our tails off for 25 years, I mean long hours, weekends, few vacations, etc. Woke up about 8 years ago and wondered were the time went, kind of a jolt. The good news is we saved a lot of money, more than we had thought we would have at that point in time. 
My wife still works, has a tremendous career and she is doing something shes really good at. I keep everything running smooth (and hunt and fish quite a bit).
So I would suggest it is very important to save, but keep a healthy work/enjoy life balance if you can.


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## ChuChu (Jan 23, 2010)

Average 401(k) Balances Dip
After years of steady increases, retirement savings plans hit a downdraft.
Last year the average 401(k) balance stood at $96,288, down from $102,682 in 2014, according to Vanguard. The median balance was $26,405 vs. $29,603 previously.


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## jesco (Jun 23, 2013)

Yes, I'll be able to retire comfortably. Which is of course a relative term. Comfortably for me. Pension from TRS. My home is paid for. Roth IRA plus other investments. Will be able to retire at 57. Still way down the road, but I have had my eye on that prize for years now. I wont be rich financially, but should be able to be comfortable in retirement.


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## TXMike06 (Dec 8, 2013)

I always wonder who all the people are who don't have any money set aside for retirement. At 18 I started working for a good company and have worked my way up in the 10 years I've been here and I've put 10% pre tax into my 401 for the last 7 years. My company matches 6% so it's losing free money to not put at least 6%. Every now and then when we get a raise I'll throw a couple percent in post tax so I can get some tax free money when I retire. We did just pass free retiree medical to. We all pay a little extra and when you retire the guys still working pay for your medical insurance. 

I definitely grew up poor and my mom will have to work until she just can't work anymore more than likely. I think most people who grow up in family's with money don't grow up seeing it like I did so they aren't thinking about it from a young age. The way things have been going I'll have my house paid off before I'm 35 so I'm hoping to be able to retire at 55 on the dot.


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## Centex fisher (Apr 25, 2006)

I'm 51 now and going to retire at age 55. House is paid for now and both kids will be out of college by then. One graduates in August so I'll get a raise shortly after that.


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## Gottagofishin (Dec 17, 2005)

It's just a matter of when not if. I almost pulled the trigger last year, but they made me an offer I couldn't refuse to stay. 

I'd guess two more years. No later than 60 though.


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## rio frio (Jan 12, 2005)

Ive been put out to pasture in the last two months.. due to a disability... save while you can...went to the doctor on thursday..and was retired on Tuesday..its going to be an extreme hardship on me to move to Rio Frio


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## rio frio (Jan 12, 2005)

t-dub said:


> I've got a lot of thoughts on this subject, as this is the business I'm in. My company handles all aspects of a company's retirement plan. I frequently go out and talk to groups of employees about retirement savings and it's really scary how many people are not saving anything or not saving enough for their retirement. I'm not talking about just 20 year olds, I'm also talking about guys in their 50's that want to retire in 10 years. The days of a company having a pension plan and someone receiving a pension payment are quickly coming to and end due to the cost to the company. That puts the the responsibility of saving on the individual, and they are not doing it! In twenty years, what's going to be the state of Social Security? They've already bumped the age to receive benefits for younger workers into the 70's. I don't know about you guys, but I get dumber everyday and don't really know if anyone is going to want to employee me when I'm 70. There are only so many greeter jobs available at Wal-Mart and Sams. IMHO, there are going to be big changes in the next 20 years to pay for all the people that are ill-prepared to retire. Those people that did save for their retirement are going to wind up paying for those that did not save. Taxes will be going up and social security benefits going down. Don't forget to take in to account the price of medical insurance if you retire early and are not old enough to be eligible for Medicare. It's huge. Scary stuff.
> 
> Go to your company's 401k website and use one of the calculators to see how much money you need to put away to replace your pre-retirement income and live off of it for 25 years. It's probably more than you expect. If you don't know where you're going, you're probably not going to get there.
> 
> ...


Rant? not at all.. you better keep preaching


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## Bustin Chops (Feb 3, 2008)

I retired last spring. House has been paid for for several years but the taxes and appraised value and insurance will still go up every year. I still need to pay over $800 a month just for taxes and insurance. There is no free ride.


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## RRbohemian (Dec 20, 2009)

Those who saved enough for retirement will you take your SS check or just let the govt have it? There is a part of me that says let them have it, but there is another part of me that says I want it, since I paid for it, and I don't want someone who has never paid into the system get it.


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## ChuChu (Jan 23, 2010)

RRbohemian said:


> Those who saved enough for retirement will you take your SS check or just let the govt have it? There is a part of me that says let them have it, but there is another part of me that says I want it, since I paid for it, and I don't want someone who has never paid into the system get it.


Absolutely not! I paid it in and I am taking it out. As a matter of fact, I will have recovered what I paid in later this year. Then I will work on what the employers I worked for paid in.


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## tstorm5 (Aug 27, 2009)

Keeping mine. I will be happy to provide you with a account and routing number to have your SS checks auto deposited. I promise to care for it wisely.


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## LaddH (Sep 29, 2011)

RRbohemian said:


> Those who saved enough for retirement will you take your SS check or just let the govt have it? There is a part of me that says let them have it, but there is another part of me that says I want it, since I paid for it, and I don't want someone who has never paid into the system get it.


If you don't want it there are plenty of charities that will put it to better use than the govt. I have a hard time understanding why you might not want money that is yours. It is not theirs, it is yours.
It is not welfare.


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## bigdav160 (Aug 25, 2004)

But it's really not yours. 

Govco spent your money the minute you gave it to them. It's gone. 

20 trillion in debt? Soon there will no room in the budget for entitlements.


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## tstorm5 (Aug 27, 2009)

bigdav160 said:


> But it's really not yours.
> 
> Govco spent your money the minute you gave it to them. It's gone.
> 
> 20 trillion in debt? Soon there will no room in the budget for entitlements.


Not really Mine??? 
OH YEAH, ITS MINE. I will never draw enough SS to cover what my employers and I paid in over the years.

That debt was there when I started paying in and it will be there when I'm long gone.


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## BBCAT (Feb 2, 2010)

I could retire, but why. I have a job I enjoy with great benefits and GREAT medical insurance.


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## mas360 (Nov 21, 2006)

BBCAT said:


> I could retire, but why. I have a job I enjoy with great benefits and GREAT medical insurance.


You must be the one lucky guy out of 100 other workers....


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## Bigj (Jul 22, 2007)

When I decided to retire the first thing I did was file for SSI it takes the a while to get ducks in a row


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## teeroy (Oct 1, 2009)

BBCAT said:


> I could retire, but why. I have a job I enjoy with great benefits and GREAT medical insurance.


If you enjoy your job and have vacation, then why not keep working for a little while longer?

I can only imagine that when I'm 65, 35 years from now, things will be MUCH different than they are right now. Not to mention, 45 years with my retirement. Probably still won't be able to afford to retire. **** sure won't be able to have any house or car notes.


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## Gottagofishin (Dec 17, 2005)

RRbohemian said:


> Those who saved enough for retirement will you take your SS check or just let the govt have it? There is a part of me that says let them have it, but there is another part of me that says I want it, since I paid for it, and I don't want someone who has never paid into the system get it.


Heck no. I'll be a full on gimmedat with my SS. That's going to be my booze and bait money.


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## fy0834 (Jan 18, 2011)

I asked....My wife said NO!


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## ralph7 (Apr 28, 2009)

I'm afraid if I retire, I'll drink even more than now, and that would be excessive!


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## sea hunt 202 (Nov 24, 2011)

so how much will you have saved at age 62, and what is the majic number. I would think about $800,000 should be about right.


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## JFolm (Apr 22, 2012)

sea hunt 202 said:


> so how much will you have saved at age 62, and what is the majic number. I would think about $800,000 should be about right.


I think everyone will have different magic numbers, tough to say since there isn't a "one fits all" answer. I wish I knew how much I will have at retirement but that's a long ways out!


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## DonSteiner (May 17, 2016)

TXMike06 said:


> I always wonder who all the people are who don't have any money set aside for retirement. At 18 I started working for a good company and have worked my way up in the 10 years I've been here and I've put 10% pre tax into my 401 for the last 7 years. My company matches 6% so it's losing free money to not put at least 6%. Every now and then when we get a raise I'll throw a couple percent in post tax so I can get some tax free money when I retire. We did just pass free retiree medical to. We all pay a little extra and when you retire the guys still working pay for your medical insurance.
> 
> I definitely grew up poor and my mom will have to work until she just can't work anymore more than likely. I think most people who grow up in family's with money don't grow up seeing it like I did so they aren't thinking about it from a young age. The way things have been going I'll have my house paid off before I'm 35 so I'm hoping to be able to retire at 55 on the dot.


I joined the Marines at age 18. Got married and raised 3 kids for the twenty years I served. The military doesn't pay that much. I barely earned enough to support a wife and 3 kids much less being able to save. So don't blankedly degenerate those of us who weren't able to save. If I had to do it all over again I wouldn't change a thing. The 20 years I spent serving were awesome.


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## whsalum (Mar 4, 2013)

Everyone has a different magic number. I put 3 kids through college and retired at 57. I have fished, listened at music and drank a few brews over the past 16 months and I love it. You have to plan and budget what you are going to need in retirement for some 800,000 k may be enough for others 8,000,000 wouldn't be.


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## Newbomb Turk (Sep 16, 2005)

In August I'll start my 10th year in retirement. Can't buy all the toys I used too but haven't found a want or desire to go back to work. I make money staying at home. People are always needing things fixed. I'm busier now at the house than I ever was when I was working.


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## RRbohemian (Dec 20, 2009)

The question on how much to save for retirement should be how do I want my quality of life to be during retirement. And when you are calculating your amount to save do you include your SSI into the equation? I don't think there is a magic number. Each one will have a different number.


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## poppadawg (Aug 10, 2007)

Buzzkill. "They" say you need to be able to live off of 4% of your saving per year. 1,000,000 bucks=40k/yr.


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## tstorm5 (Aug 27, 2009)

poppadawg said:


> Buzzkill. "They" say you need to be able to live off of 4% of your saving per year. 1,000,000 bucks=40k/yr.


Well that $40K is for year 1. After that you only have $960,000.00 left and to get the same $40K, you have to adjust your withdrawal every year. BUt if no interest is gained on that money, you should last 25 years. Ooooh, then again you'll be taxed on that money, so there's that.


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## cpthook (Jan 16, 2008)

I'm self employed and have always in my self employment years, have just saved without a 401k. Cash is king. Now back in my corporate america days I had a 401k which did fairly well, I closed it out and used it to buy my first business. Best thing I could have ever done. But no mas too many people losing money in the market, and I do not have the right guy. Last year I signed up with a 2cooler who is a financial advisor (will not mention names) but I lost my arce in less than a year. Bad decision. I'm now investing in a commercial real estate project, should yield big however the risk is big.


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## bigfishtx (Jul 17, 2007)

cpthook said:


> I'm self employed and have always in my self employment years, have just saved without a 401k. Cash is king. Now back in my corporate america days I had a 401k which did fairly well, I closed it out and used it to buy my first business. Best thing I could have ever done. But no mas too many people losing money in the market, and I do not have the right guy. Last year I signed up with a 2cooler who is a financial advisor (will not mention names) but I lost my arce in less than a year. Bad decision. I'm now investing in a commercial real estate project, should yield big however the risk is big.


The problem with "financial advisors" is, they get paid whether you make money or not. And most of the time, they try to steer you into the deal giving them the best commission rather that the best deal for you.

Every time I am approached by one asking for my business, I tell them that I only pay them a percentage of the gains they get me, if I lose money, they work for nothing. I have not had one agree to the deal yet.


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## fy0834 (Jan 18, 2011)

bigfishtx said:


> Every time I am approached by one asking for my business, I tell them that I only pay them a percentage of the gains they get me, if I lose money, they work for nothing. I have not had one agree to the deal yet.


I have even offered them more of the profits for this type of deal.

No takers here either... I guess they are adverse to risk when involving their time, but not so much so with others money.


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## goatchze (Aug 1, 2006)

bigfishtx said:


> The problem with "financial advisors" is, they get paid whether you make money or not. And most of the time, they try to steer you into the deal giving them the best commission rather that the best deal for you.
> 
> *Every time I am approached by one asking for my business, I tell them that I only pay them a percentage of the gains they get me, if I lose money, they work for nothing. I have not had one agree to the deal yet.*


How could they? If we're in a bear market, they might be doing you a service by not losing money as quickly as others. You're basically telling them : if the market goes into a long term decline, you'll need to starve for a bit.

In most cases, a percentage of assets fee provides the least conflict of interest. There are no "commissions" or hidden fees on what they do. They can't make unnecessary transactions that don't benefit you while lining their pocket. Their income grows as your account grows, and their income shrinks as your account shrinks. There's still the problem of an adviser being overly conservative and milking you, but hey, they're an adviser. You still make the decisions.

This is why Dept. of Labor is changing the rules on IRA commissions, for example. It may not be long that % of assets is the rule for all advisers.

As for the "magic number", it's going to vary considerably from person to person. You have to take into account standard of living, any potential debts, health, and life span. And that's just naming a few considerations.

We've been planning for 80% income replacement without depleting the principal before age 95. We're accounting for SS being there _and_ not being there (our "number" would just barely get us to 95 on its own, but with SS would extend us out further and more comfortably).

Of course, there's always uncertainty. We've got to "predict" our income up till retirement, then predict an average real return, guess at what inflation will be, etc. That's why you don't just pick a number and go; you constantly re-evaluate.

And for those talking about "paying into Social Security", keep in mind that you and your employer paid into nothing. You and your employer were taxed all those years, plain and simple. SS is not a retirement plan; it is a tax and spend plan. The government has no obligation to return that money to _you_, either as principal or with a return. It's not yours; it's theirs. That is one of the biggest problems I have with the SS system; it's a con, making you think that the government is somehow your financial adviser, looking out for your future. In fact, they're simply taxing you in addition to income, medicare, and other taxes. Some may benefit from it, others may not.


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## cpthook (Jan 16, 2008)

*smh*



bigfishtx said:


> The problem with "financial advisors" is, they get paid whether you make money or not. And most of the time, they try to steer you into the deal giving them the best commission rather that the best deal for you.
> 
> Every time I am approached by one asking for my business, I tell them that I only pay them a percentage of the gains they get me, if I lose money, they work for nothing. I have not had one agree to the deal yet.


they would most likely be standing under the freeway with a sign if they got paid on gains only vs. losing money as well. That is why I have chosen to go the commercial real estate route and will stay out of the market. I know allot of people have done well in the market but I have not, and until I find one that can deliver I'm out.


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## poppadawg (Aug 10, 2007)

Just about anybody can retire with 5 million dollars. First thing you need to do is find 5 million dollars.....


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## duckmania (Jun 3, 2014)

poppadawg said:


> Just about anybody can retire with 5 million dollars. First thing you need to do is find 5 million dollars.....


That's the tricky part.

I'm a financial guy but by no means a qualified planner. But I can tell you what we ve done and it has worked well. 
We ve always been heavy in our 401(k) s. What we did was put it all in a handful of mutuals that trade in the Dow, AND LEAVE IT ALONE. Ride it up and down, historically it has gained around 5 percent on average. When you sell in a down market you turn a recognized loss onto a realized loss. As you get older and the market is strong, re adjust your portfolio, pull some wealth into safer places. 
We have some real estate and some other investments but the bulk of it is in the market via 401k.


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## flatscat1 (Jun 2, 2005)

You are buying their time, and you have no clue as to the overhead and regulatory requirements they must adhere to and the expense to do so.

Do you ask your CPA, lawyer, doctor to work for free just because you didn't like the outcome of your taxes/trial/diagnosis? A financial advisor is not different, you are buying their time and expertise.

A broker has no control over bull/bear market timing, and most these days are not commission based. The trend is towards flat fee for managing your assets. If your portfolio goes down 5%, they lose 5% of their income. The only way they make more money of a flat fee program is if your portfolio grows.

I see many clients that pay +$100k up to $450k per year to their financial advisors and are happy to do it, even in bad years, because in the long run they have benefitted greatly from the advice they have received. A good financial advisor does a lot more than picking stocks and bonds by the way, they help manage the financial affairs for the whole family (wealth transfer, estate, business, lending, investments, etc.)

And legally, they can't do what you are asking them to do.....you don't know how the industry works.



bigfishtx said:


> The problem with "financial advisors" is, they get paid whether you make money or not. And most of the time, they try to steer you into the deal giving them the best commission rather that the best deal for you.
> 
> Every time I am approached by one asking for my business, I tell them that I only pay them a percentage of the gains they get me, if I lose money, they work for nothing. I have not had one agree to the deal yet.


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## sea hunt 202 (Nov 24, 2011)

Holy cow these are some eye openers, I think I will invest my hundreds in a saw mill in hopes of the building market to boom.


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