# A Little Excitement at the Lease this Weekend



## ZenDaddy (May 22, 2004)

Thought I'd head down to the lease in San Saba to see about an end of season buck that's been popping up on the game cams. As the others were busy, I'd be by myself for the weekend. Got there early in the AM and decided to go for a nice long walk and check on some of the feeders. I generally carry my little .44 lever action.

After about an hour of walking, I turned back towards camp. The rancher's cows were loitering on the road. Generally, they'll move aside and let me pass. The got a little defensive. The bigger bulls came running in and circled the mama's and the calves. Interesting, I thought. I knew a bunch of calves had just been born - so I figured they were a little touchy. I opted to walk around the herd. Things got a little heated when they still felt I was to close and took a little run at me. I figured it was half hearted - but nonetheless I gave them a much wider birth. Being 30 yards out of camp I passed by our old dump. Then I heard a huge growl and bark. Made me jump to attention. I dropped to one knee with my back to a mesquite tree. Behind some brush I could see the brown form of a huge dog barking. Put the iron sites on him ... but unwilling to shoot since I couldn't make positive identification of what I was shooting at. Reached into my back pack and grabbed my little binoculars. The dog cooperated and stepped out of the bush. A beautiful dog. Looked part hound / part boxer. Giant sized with long legs. Wasn't going to feel good about shooting this guy. Then out of the corner of my eye to my left I see his partner slinking through the bushes on my very left (almost behind me.) Dogs looked like twins. By this time the other dog started growling. I turned to the left and shot. The .44 coming out of a small lever action makes a tremendous amount of noise. Both dogs took off running.

That night I set up a game cam over some hotdogs. The dogs never came back. I figure the dogs had spooked the cattle. The funny part is one of the other guys at the lease was absolutely convinced he had seen a mountain loin on his way back from the stand one evening. Not in San Saba with one hunter per every fifty feet I thought - but when I looked around the stand I did see dog prints. It would have been easy to confuse these dogs from the hind end with a mountain lion. Size, tail and coloring all looked similar.

Was a little uncomfortable cooking dinner that night. The camp is out in the open and cooking done outside. On the BBQ table I had my plate, cutlery and .44.


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## BigBuck (Mar 2, 2005)

*Dogs*

That's a little scary. We have a rule at our lease on dogs. If you see them, you call them. If they come to you, you try to find out who they belong to. If they do not come, you kill them. Any that growls at me takes a dirt nap.
Glad everything turned out ok.
BB


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## phil k (May 8, 2007)

*dogs*

me or any hunter i have on my ranch see a dog without a collar it will go night night on the dirt floor.no if and's or buts. MY RULE !!!!


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## Levelwind (Apr 15, 2005)

BigBuck said:


> That's a little scary. We have a rule at our lease on dogs. If you see them, you call them. If they come to you, you try to find out who they belong to. If they do not come, you kill them. Any that growls at me takes a dirt nap.
> Glad everything turned out ok.
> BB





phil k said:


> me or any hunter i have on my ranch see a dog without a collar it will go night night on the dirt floor.no if and's or buts. MY RULE !!!!


 Y'all killed any lately?


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## Van (May 21, 2004)

Think I'll just have a little snack....


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## bzrk180 (Jan 7, 2008)

phil k said:


> me or any hunter i have on my ranch see a dog without a collar it will go night night on the dirt floor.no if and's or buts. MY RULE !!!!


When I lived WAAAAY out in Medina, that was the general rule for the ranchers around where I lived. There are mostly goats and sheep and I was warned about my dogs. I always kept them close to me and had bright collars on them.

I guess I cant blame the ranchers for looking out for their livestock. I also made sure the guys that were close to me knew my dogs just in case one got loose.


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## marksmu (Dec 4, 2008)

Personally I am very glad, I am not on a lease with your attitude, or any of the folks out there shooting dogs that dont come when they are called. I dont hunt with my dogs at all, but I do take them to my property with me all the time.

I keep them in the house, but its not uncommon for them to get out....My dogs are both petrified of guns, and will run like crazy from the site of one. I will have to say anyone shooting my dogs or at my dogs will have return shots from me.

Self defense from wild dogs is one thing, but just the presence of a dog should not get it shot. Even if it does happen to ruin your hunt. If its attacking your cattle or other game thats also a different story. But,I can assure if the public gets wind of the fact that there are hunters out there shooting dogs, b/c they get in the way of their deer hunt - it wont be long before you cant hunt anymore at all. Period.

This all coming from a person who hunts all the time and loves the sport. If hunters get a reputation for only caring about their hunt above all else. All is lost. A domesticated dog - whether or not it is your dog should not be shot.

Just another reason I dont allow hunters on my land without me.



BigBuck said:


> That's a little scary. We have a rule at our lease on dogs. If you see them, you call them. If they come to you, you try to find out who they belong to. If they do not come, you kill them. Any that growls at me takes a dirt nap.
> Glad everything turned out ok.
> BB


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## txpoboy (Feb 27, 2008)

Van said:


> Think I'll just have a little snack....


LOL!!!!


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## kweber (Sep 20, 2005)

S S & S


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## ZenDaddy (May 22, 2004)

marksmu said:


> Personally I am very glad, I am not on a lease with your attitude, or any of the folks out there shooting dogs that dont come when they are called. I dont hunt with my dogs at all, but I do take them to my property with me all the time.


Hmm, I thought I did the right thing in taking the time to make sure they didn't have a collar. Fact is I put my health in danger. They seemed extremely aggressive and the fact that one had circled behind me leads me to believe that they were behaving like predators not domestic pets. If either dog had a collar it would have definitely changed my mind ... but with no collar I didn't have a lot of choice. Rancher has a lot of valuable livestock and their are children on the lease.


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## Levelwind (Apr 15, 2005)

I wouldn't fault you for shooting at a dog that was approaching and growling. Especially a large dog, and more especially if there was another nearby. Not sure it would be deemed an "attack" legally, but close enough for me. 

As far as kids, livestock, etc. on the lease, there are plenty of things out there that can hurt a child. If they can't handle those situations they shouldn't be out there without an adult. Presence or absence of a collar have no bearing on the law, and neither does the "comes when called" test. Plenty of dogs will come when called and still run livestock and plenty of dogs who won't come when called won't. 

Before you gun a dog which is owned by another person, it's a good idea to acquaint yourself with animal cruelty statutes. A state jail felony means you don't own guns anymore.


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## marksmu (Dec 4, 2008)

Zen, I was not faulting you for protecting yourself at all - especially when you were circled around by a growling dog. Certain dogs that are aggressive can be extremely dangerous, I have seen it first hand. I was faulting BigBucks & Phil K's statement. If you call it and it doesnt come it dies. Or if it growls it dies, or if no collar it dies.

I can tell you my dogs wont come to a stranger when called, and if they are cornered they growl. And they especially will not come to a stranger carrying a gun. BigBucks and Phil K's attitude towards dogs is pretty much the definition of ignorance. Anyone who will shoot a dog that wont come when called should not be allowed to possess a gun. Its people like that who will ruin the entire sport for all of us.

And I still stand by my statement - my dog is my family - shooting at my dog is the same as shooting at my wife. It will be met with return fire.


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## solrac (Aug 31, 2007)

Before you gun a dog which is owned by another person, it's a good idea to acquaint yourself with animal cruelty statutesHow is ownership defined? No ownership=no animal cruelty protection?

Can you legally shoot at someone for shooting your dog? Arent they defined as a piece of property?

What about a dog that gets dumped out in the country by someone who doesnt want to care for them anymore, are they protected? Can the person dumping the dog be prosecuted?


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## Levelwind (Apr 15, 2005)

solrac said:


> Before you gun a dog which is owned by another person, it's a good idea to acquaint yourself with animal cruelty statutes
> 
> How is ownership defined? No ownership=no animal cruelty protection?
> 
> ...


Yes. Dumping is illegal, as is gross neglect. Unfortunately, it's hard to catch these people and even harder to prove charges against them.


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## marksmu (Dec 4, 2008)

I am not a person here who is going to fault a person for defending themselves or their livestock from a wild dog. I also do not fault a person for scaring off a domesticated dog who is harassing their cattle, chickens, etc....But there is certainly a line that MUST be drawn between behavior that warrants being killed, and behavior from a dog who just has not been taught better. Once the dog is dead, it cant be trained not to repeat the behavior.

But to answer your questions in the eyes of the law - which I am quite familiar with:

1) Ownership has no bearing whatsoever on animal cruelty - It may help as a defense against a person who shot a dog though.

2) You will go to jail if you defend your animal with deadly force. An animal, whether or not you regard them as your family member, at least for now are still considered property. Unless it is criminal mischief at night it is still illegal to defend property with deadly force (castle rule excepted). Though my anger would still get the best of me, here and I would likely shoot.

3) Yes- the person dumping the dog in the country can be prosecuted for animal cruelty. It is illegal to dump a dog. The dumping of dogs in the country is a huge problem. My property is in Chambers County - just outside of Houston....we get lots of people who do just that. Its extremely depressing and quite inhumane. The dogs stand little chance in the wild....usually they get run over as they approach cars thinking they will get fed. Those that don't get run over often either die of starvation, or end up attacking livestock or chickens, and get shot. Some find a home with a big hearted rancher, or family.

There are instances where a dog should be shot, and its not a problem - I just dont feel that the opinions of some on this board at this moment represent the sport of hunting well.


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## BigBuck (Mar 2, 2005)

*Dogs*

Marksmu, I am curious as to what your response would be to a dog loose on a ranch with goats and sheep that runs from you when you call? How many kids (goats) or fawns are an acceptable loss to you? What I gave are our rancher's rules. Anyone can choose to ignore them, just like we can ignore the rule of shooting coyotes. Just not a good idea to tell the rancher if you chose to ignore the rule.

To answer another question: I have never shot a dog. Not to say I would not. I see one pulling down a fawn or ranch animal, or growls at me, I put him down (in the ranch setting). He comes in my yard at home and trys to attack my family, I put him down, regardless of the consequences. 
I did see a big chow out in the field one time, I opened the door of the truck, called to him, he ran 100 yds and jumped up in the truck. We took him to the neighboring ranch and returned him to his owner. If he would have chose to kill livestock or run, he would have died right there.

And I will not apologize for, nor retract, my statements.
Thanks and have a great day.
BB


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## Levelwind (Apr 15, 2005)

marksmu said:


> 1) Ownership has no bearing whatsoever on animal cruelty - It may help as a defense against a person who shot a dog though.
> 
> 2) You will go to jail if you defend your animal with deadly force. An animal, whether or not you regard them as your family member, at least for now are still considered property. Unless it is criminal mischief at night it is still illegal to defend property with deadly force (castle rule excepted). Though my anger would still get the best of me, here and I would likely shoot.


I disagree. You could be right on #2. I still say that it would depend heavily on circumstances. Whether you agree or not, Texas law gives one the right to protect property with deadly force in many circumstances.

As far as #1, that was a very important part of the catshooter case and it hinged on what sorts of things the bridge employees provided for the cats.

*PENAL CODE
TITLE 9. OFFENSES AGAINST PUBLIC ORDER AND DECENCY
CHAPTER 42. DISORDERLY CONDUCT AND RELATED OFFENSES*

*
42.09. Cruelty to Animals *
(a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally or knowingly:
(1) tortures an animal;
(2) fails unreasonably to provide necessary food, care, or shelter for an animal in the person's custody;
(3) abandons unreasonably an animal in the person's custody;
(4) transports or confines an animal in a cruel manner;
(5) kills, seriously injures, or administers poison to an animal, other than cattle, horses, sheep, swine, or goats, *belonging to another* without legal authority or the owner's effective consent;


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## redbyfly (Jun 10, 2005)

"If you kill it, you must eat it", where's Dad when I need him?


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## aneel (Oct 8, 2005)

Let me break it down for ya.There are hundreds and thousands of wild dogs roaming the woods and brush of our ranches and dear leases.They are there due to some ignoramous low class P>O>S who decided one day that they no longer the poor dog they couldnt afford in the first place so they dump the inocent thing.The county road leading into our ranch is a favorite dumoing zone for these type of people.We run cattle and have some valuable roping horses that i dont want disturbed or harmed by these now wild(not by choice) dogs.These dogs are shot when seen by anyone at the ranch weather hunting or checking cows.It is no differant than a coyote in my opinion.If your dog is well taken care of and is part of your family(like mine are) then you should take no offense to this thread.And call PITA,let them fools come out and take care of every wild dog that you dont want to shoot. Just sit and wait and see how long it takes them.I have witnessed people dumping dogs on lease roads tryed to catch them,took down there liscense plates and called the sheriffs dept.Guess what they told me? They asked me to wait where i was until an animal control officer arived.Well i did! No one showed! When i called back they told me well he must have gotten busy! This is why people shoot dogs!


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## BATWING (May 9, 2008)

I have been on a few hunting leases where dogs have been shot for running deer. I have also been out hunting and found a high dollar bird dog with a shock collar and it had catus quills all in it's feet. I nursed it and took it to the Ranch manger and he found it's owner on a neighboring lease. You can tell when dogs are running deer vs a lost dog.. In most cases the dogs are in poor health and near ferrel, maybe a good idea to put it out of its misery. People dont spend thousands of dollars on this sport to let ferral dogs run the deer, kill livestock and spread disease.

On the other hand people there are leash laws even in the county. I people find it ridicules that people find it common to allow there dogs to just roam. Thats a good way to get your animlas killed if not maimed. I would almost consider that cruelty and you do not deserve the right to own pets.


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## Levelwind (Apr 15, 2005)

BigBuck said:


> To answer another question: I have never shot a dog. Not to say I would not. I see one pulling down a fawn or ranch animal, or growls at me, I put him down (in the ranch setting). He comes in my yard at home and trys to attack my family, I put him down, regardless of the consequences.
> BB


Those cases are excepted under the law. I'm pretty sure you could be called the landowners agent. If your lessor requires you to kill animals simply for failing to come when called, that is not an exception. I'd certainly ignore a rule requiring me to commit a state jail felony. Beyond that, even though there are still prosecutors and judges in livestock country who tend not to enforce animal cruelty statutes, civil suits by the animal's owner are often quite successful, as they require a lower evidentiary standard, and a trained livestock animal, hunting dog, or even a family pet can cost you many thousands of dollars.


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## aneel (Oct 8, 2005)

Totaly agree batwing


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## BATWING (May 9, 2008)

marksmu said:


> I keep them in the house, but its not uncommon for them to get out....


Here is the problem


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## Levelwind (Apr 15, 2005)

BATWING said:


> On the other hand people there are leash laws even in the county. I people find it ridicules that people find it common to allow there dogs to just roam. Thats a good way to get your animlas killed if not maimed. I would almost consider that cruelty and you do not deserve the right to own pets.


Funny how times have changed. Where, and when I grew up many people (my Dad included) thought it was cruel to keep a dog penned up.

Leash laws, oh, right. I see border collies and healers working stock and pointers and labs hunting birds on leashes all the time. Not to mention hounds.

aneel, I understand the dilemma. One of my places in Southern Brazoria Co. was a favorite for dog dumpers, for some unknown reason. I was able to get a few of them to a shelter, but most were so abused and mistrustful they would run like the wind. Next time you saw them they were just hide stretched over bones. BUT, I saw the ranchers heelers out there a few times, too, running wild. If you know heelers, they aren't especially freindly and won't come to just anyone. Neither will some hunting dogs, hounds especially. Therein lies the rub.


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## aneel (Oct 8, 2005)

wild dog=dead dog . How hard of a concept is it?


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## BATWING (May 9, 2008)

Levelwind said:


> Funny how times have changed. Where, and when I grew up many people (my Dad included) thought it was cruel to keep a dog penned up.
> 
> Leash laws, oh, right. I see border collies and healers working stock and pointers and labs hunting birds on leashes all the time. Not to mention hounds.
> 
> aneel, I understand the dilemma. One of my places in Southern Brazoria Co. was a favorite for dog dumpers, for some unknown reason. I was able to get a few of them to a shelter, but most were so abused and mistrustful they would run like the wind. Next time you saw them they were just hide stretched over bones. BUT, I saw the ranchers heelers out there a few times, too, running wild. If you know heelers, they aren't especially freindly and won't come to just anyone. Neither will some hunting dogs, hounds especially. Therein lies the rub.


Point is to supervise your animals or keep them fenced. Hell, I have a couple dogs, horses etc but they aint roamin the roads causing mischieve.


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## nasakid (May 21, 2004)

Two years in a row, the neighboring land owner's dogs have been observed chasing deer on our property during deer season. Can I legally shoot them as menacing feral dogs or at least be in my legal rights to let the owner know the risk to his dogs if I see them chasing deer again? It's what they do when I'm not there that worries me. No telling how many fawns they've killed. One is a border collie and the other a rot.


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## marksmu (Dec 4, 2008)

aneel said:


> wild dog=dead dog . How hard of a concept is it?


My problem, and the one I am hearing from Levelwind as well, is not that we have a problem shooting a wild dog, who is harassing livestock, and costing ranchers money - it was the attitude that if I see a dog that wont come when I call I am going to shoot it, or the more calous statement, if I see a dog on the lease Im going to shoot it. That is a ridiculous attitude towards a dog. You dont just shoot things when you see them, they must be doing somthing wrong to warrant it. Just killing everything you see will give us responsible hunters a terrible name

I did not condemn the original post b.c he was clearly threatened. I dont condemn it when they are killing valuable livestock. BUT there are plenty of instances, and I can easily think of many, when a dog may be doing something wrong, and should not be shot.

For instance. If your neighbor keeps horses up near your house, a very short distance from your front door. If your dog gets out and decides he wants to bark through your fence at the horse and run up and down the fenceline toyin with the horse and scaring the horse, anyone shooting that dog should justifably rot in hell.

Just because a dog misbehaves does not mean it should be shot. That remains true whether or not the dog is on your property. If its clearly not wild (and it is very clear as was previously mentioned usually due to their emaciated state), when you are close enough to get a shot off) then it shouldnt be shot. If it has a collar on, or is clearly not wild it should not be shot unless it is endangering your own life. PERIOD.

I have seen hunters so ****** off that someones dog ruined their hunt, they will shoot the dog, KNOWING the dog was not wild. That hunter who does that should himself be shot and not allowed to particpate in the sport. The enjoyment and pride in hunting should not take precedent over another persons family member ever!

Finally Batwing - if you have an actual working ranch its not uncommon for a dog to get through the fence while you are pulling your tractor through...Usually you see them come through, but if you dont - that should not be a death warrant for your dog.


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## ZenDaddy (May 22, 2004)

Um, for the record, they were hanndsome looking dogs. I am a dog owner - and love my dog, but the last freakin' thing I was going to do was to see if the dog would come if called. They were very big dogs, they were very angry dogs and I didn't want them any closer. 

One of the reasons I didn't shoot is I figured the dogs were hunting dogs that someone lost. However, they had no collar. Had the dogs a collar I may have treated them differently. What made me nervous is they clearly saw me as a threat. They were barking and growling and when given an opportunity to flee, did not. I did not discharge a round until I saw the other one sneaking up on me. In fact, I gave those dogs the exact same considerations as I would people. At the end of the day - no dogs were harmed, but at the same time they are still a threat.


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## marksmu (Dec 4, 2008)

Nope - shooting his dogs will leave you liable for destruction of private property- regardless of the fact the dogs are trespassers. Same as you cannot kill your neighbors cows when they get out and eat your whole crop. All you can do is make him pay for your damages. 

And shooting his dogs for scaring your deer, and ruining your weekend, would also make you a terrible person. I would try talking to the neighbor, or calling your county game warden. It is illegal for the neighbors dogs to be on your property, and the game warden can easily help you enforce that.


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## huntinguy (Aug 22, 2005)

Recently my lab got out of my truck and when he returned he was carrying a dead rooster. Had the owner of said rooster shot and killed Jazz I would have been devastated, at a total loss; HOWEVER its MY responsibility to keep up with my dog and I would NOT have said one word or blamed the roosters owner one bit!

It would be no different than him getting out and getting run over on the road and killed. It would be MY fault, not someone else.


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## Levelwind (Apr 15, 2005)

I blame it on citification, but then I've only lived in Texas since '75, and most of that time in the various subdivisions and communities around Houston. So, maybe it's a Texas thing.

Where I grew up, probably half to a third of the farmers had coyote dogs (grayhounds). Of those that didn't, almost all had some sort of big old shaggy shepherd mix or two, and a fair number kept pointers and setters - bird dogs. There were a couple packs of coondogs in the county, but only a couple. It's farm and ranch country. Probably more farm than ranch, but few outfits didn't have a few head of cows, and there were some sheep. Few if any goats. 
Now people in town, that was a different deal. We lived in town most of my childhood, and we kept our dogs kenneled. Most everyone did. Didn't want them turning over garbage cans, getting pregnant, pooping in neighbors yards, etc. 
But my Sis and her husband farmed, my Uncles and Cousins all farmed, and most of my childhood buds were farm boys. I started running a tractor when I got my restricted drivers license at 14. Before that I picked up hay, and helped fence.

In the country, *nobody *kept their dogs penned. *I mean nobody*. A few farm wives had little yappy dogs for house dogs, chihuauas or pomeranians, mostly, but not very many of them. Dogs lived outside. Greyhounds, especially, would get bored, pack up, and go hunting by themselves. Come home chewed up around the nose and ears (especially the kill dog, or "throater").

As I said, almost everyone had livestock.

Know how many problems I ever heard of in 20 years of growing up in that environment, and being around farmers and dogs all the time?

None. Zero. nada.

Worst I ever heard of was pups getting ran over on the county (fast) road. Didn't happen often, but it did happen. Farm dogs had to get road smart. Most did, a few didn't. Kind of like you lose a few calves to the cold weather each spring.

I love Texas and Texans and now consider myself one, but I do not get the animosity towards dogs. I absolutely believe it is due to people moving to "ranchettes" or to the country and bringing their city attitudes with them. But then again, I could be wrong. I didn't live here 50 years ago. I think it's a sad state of affairs when people talk about leash laws in the country, "dog trespassing", etc. I think it's too bad that these attitudes have put hound hunters, a rich and wonderful tradition (although never mine, very much) out of business.

Ranks right up there with high fences (claiming "their" deer herds) and coastal landowners getting their "renta game wardens" to run duck hunters off adjacent public lands.

All part of the same mindset in my opinion. Little citified HOA BS brought to the country by small minded people.

But that's just me.


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## boom! (Jul 10, 2004)

marksmu said:


> Personally I am very glad, I am not on a lease with your attitude, or any of the folks out there shooting dogs that dont come when they are called. I dont hunt with my dogs at all, but I do take them to my property with me all the time.
> 
> I keep them in the house, but its not uncommon for them to get out....My dogs are both petrified of guns, and will run like crazy from the site of one. I will have to say anyone shooting my dogs or at my dogs will have return shots from me.
> 
> ...


It sounds like you have control issues.


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## nasakid (May 21, 2004)

marksmu,

First of all, I see you as a troll, but I'll give one last response... You said, "And shooting his dogs for scaring your deer, and ruining your weekend, would also make you a terrible person." I put thousands of $$ a year to feed deer, manage my property, and generally look out for the game animals on my property. As the sportsman and conservationist and generally good hunter, if something is threatening my herd, it's gonna get considered for lead poisoning, whether it's a coyote or a dog chasing a deer. Dogs are animals no different than deer, hogs or anything else. Yes, we have a certain fondness for our dogs, me included, and consider them part of the family, but dogs chasing deer in the woods are far from the fuzzy little house dogs you and I cherish so much. They are hunters at that point, and the owners that allow them to run like that take that chance when they don't control the movement of their animal. You're in the very small minority on this forum with your dog-lover attitude when it comes to dogs in the woods/ranches. Most of us guys here love our pets as much as the next guy, but when it comes to a dog ruining a hunt, it's more than just our feelings getting hurt. It's an opportunity lost that we've put blood, sweat, and tears into over the last YEAR. I wish there was a way to punish the dog owners b/c that's where the true responsibility lies. Wild dogs don't have owners, tho, so the only way to stop the dogs from chasing game/livestock is to put them down. Just a simple reality.


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## solrac (Aug 31, 2007)

The basset hound ***** that showed up at our ranch had puppies about four weeks ago, there are seven. Four females and three males. Unknown sire, can email pics of momma and pups, send pm if interested. No returns 

She is the third dumped dog that has shown up at our ranch this year. She stayed, other two left after a good meal...


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## BATWING (May 9, 2008)

I guess it's all mindset and how you were raised. I was raised to take care of my animals. They did not roam. They did not get the neighbors dog pregnant or kill their cat. Ranch or no ranch. Farm or no farm.

I live out in the county now and would have a huge problem and a good case of the redazz if I see someones dog running my horses. I grew up in the woods of east Texas and strays would not last long.


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## Timemachine (Nov 25, 2008)

I HATE threads that go on for 4 pages of OPINIONS but I'm going to chime in. Years back I had a small ranch outside Laredo. While walking across the property, I was attached by a dog. We're talking knocked to the ground, slashed up hand, blood etc. When I was finally in a position to get to my feet I was trying to get this thing off of me and shoot it!!! But then a neighbor yelled and called HIS dog of of me. For a moment my only decision was "Do I shoot the dog or do I shoot the dog AND the neighbor." I was plenty hot. I have a 7 yr old son as well but fortunately he wasn't with me. I explained to the neighbor that my kids are often at the ranch with me and that the dog was DANGEROUS!! I made sure he fully understood that if I EVER se the dog on MY SIDE OF THE FENCE AGAIN, I WOULD SHOOT TO KILL!

Post up your bleeding heart comments, your pro's and con's, quote the law, etc, etc, etc. UNLESS you have been attacked by a dog while on your property.....you don't know what you're talking about. And if you're kids are in danger.....YOU WILL shoot to kill. A man is NO match for a large dog no matter how MATCHO you think you are.

P.S. I own three large dogs. They sleep in my bed, they eat off my plate, they are like kids to me. Harm one and there will be HELL to pay (legal or not)...I promise you that. 

Thanks for letting me add my .02 worth.


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## BigBuck (Mar 2, 2005)

*Dogs*

Sorry Zen for hijacking your thread, but I think you showed remarkable restraint. Good for you, you made a decision to save the dogs, under the same circumstances I am not sure I would have been able to hold off.

Nasakid is right, the problem with dogs is their owners. Same with kids today. I have been around the block a time or 3, and have owned hunting dogs and house dogs, and always will. I would know the difference between someone's pet out for a stroll and one trying to live off the livestock and game on the ranch. We have over 8,000 acres in our ranch (2 sides), 10,000 acres to our North, and 5,000 acres to the South. I would give any dog the chance to prove his worth, a healthy pet with a collar would do just fine. I would not shoot a weiner dog with or without a collar, he could not catch anything anyway. 
Someone said you have to eat what you kill.
Just curious, what if I decided to kill my pet dog and have it for supper? That ok? It's an animal. Lots of people eat dog. I have had people tell me it is wrong to eat dog. Why? Either we have the right to kill and eat animals or we do not. 
Having said that, I do not think I could eat a dog. Maybe trapped in the snow or something?
Carry on
BB


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## Timemachine (Nov 25, 2008)

BigBuck......................................Well said. Thanks, Jim


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## redduck (Jul 26, 2006)

For what it is worth, I have owned hunting hounds that were trained to run deer and some that ran rabbits. Since we felt these were valuable animals that someone might want to steal we trained them not to go to a stranger. Most hunting hounds when they run a deer will go a long ways and when the chase is over they will backtrack to where they were dropped off or turned lose. Sometimes they crossed roads that other hunters were at. It was natural for these other hunters to try and call the dog. We would get a stranger to call our dog and when the dog came to the person have a switch and wear the dog out. As a puppy or young dog it does not take but a couple of times and he will not go to a stranger especially one with a stick (or rifle that looks like a stick). Having said that, I have no problem with someone shooting a dog that is truly causing harm to property or livestock or a threat to people. The above method of hunting was long ago when it was legal and common in some parts of the county. Running dogs is illegal in all of Texas now. I personally would not shoot a dog (I really like dogs) unless I was certain it was a threat as described above. my 2


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## marksmu (Dec 4, 2008)

First of all big nasaboy - Glad to have gotten under your skin - Second - I am an extremely responsible hunter and property owner - I easily spent well over $50K this year alone in feed and equipment managing my property to ensure an abundance of wildlife while still having enough resources for my cattle, and enough seasonal water for my waterfowl hunting...If you had read anything I wrote, I said I dont have a problem killing a nuisance WILD dog, or ANY dog that threatens your life. But if a neighbors dog comes happening along, and ruins your hunt and you kill it - You should, and will - rot.

I dont care how much time and money you put into your weekend - the dog doesnt deserve to die if its a house pet that was just misbehaving, or worse had just inadvertanly gotten out. Would I fault you for kicking the owners ***** - not at all. But the dog if it wasnt wild - and didnt know better - did not deserve to die.

The problem I took with the original posts was shoot it if you see it, or shoot if it doesnt come when called. There should be a degree of care that is taken before you take the life of anything that is highly likely to be a part of someones family.

I didnt have a problem with the taking of nuisance, wild, or pack dogs, that are destroying property.



nasakid said:


> marksmu,
> 
> First of all, I see you as a troll, but I'll give one last response... You said, "And shooting his dogs for scaring your deer, and ruining your weekend, would also make you a terrible person." I put thousands of $$ a year to feed deer, manage my property, and generally look out for the game animals on my property. As the sportsman and conservationist and generally good hunter, if something is threatening my herd, it's gonna get considered for lead poisoning, whether it's a coyote or a dog chasing a deer. Dogs are animals no different than deer, hogs or anything else. Yes, we have a certain fondness for our dogs, me included, and consider them part of the family, but dogs chasing deer in the woods are far from the fuzzy little house dogs you and I cherish so much. They are hunters at that point, and the owners that allow them to run like that take that chance when they don't control the movement of their animal. You're in the very small minority on this forum with your dog-lover attitude when it comes to dogs in the woods/ranches. Most of us guys here love our pets as much as the next guy, but when it comes to a dog ruining a hunt, it's more than just our feelings getting hurt. It's an opportunity lost that we've put blood, sweat, and tears into over the last YEAR. I wish there was a way to punish the dog owners b/c that's where the true responsibility lies. Wild dogs don't have owners, tho, so the only way to stop the dogs from chasing game/livestock is to put them down. Just a simple reality.


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## nasakid (May 21, 2004)

Your 8 posts indicate that you're a newbie, so before the name-calling gets out of hand (I've been around here for just a FEW years, and the "kid" in my username is not an indicatior of my age or hunting experience BTW), I actually agree with your last post. I have never shot a dog in the woods or anywhere else for that matter. Been tempted to many times, but I just couldn't do it b/c I knew they were pets. I agree that having the game warden show up at the owner's house (if you know who it is) to give them a little tongue lashing is the RIGHT thing to do. I do believe you're getting a little carried away with the whole death to dog killers thing. If you are so passionate about that, you need to visit your local big-city animal shelter or vet school and get an education in reality.


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## marksmu (Dec 4, 2008)

Simply because I havent been here long - definitely should not make me a troll. I was just turned on to this site a month ago at most - and now it consumes hours of my day as I anxiously await the end of the week. I simply voiced an opinion on something I am passionate about. My dogs. And I just was hoping there was not someone out there cruel enough to shoot someones family member simply for ruining a hunt.


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## Levelwind (Apr 15, 2005)

nasakid said:


> marksmu,
> 
> As the sportsman and conservationist and generally good hunter, if something is threatening my herd, it's gonna get considered for lead poisoning, whether it's a coyote or a dog chasing a deer.
> 
> ...


And yes, Virginia, I have been attacked (not attached) by a couple of fairly large dogs. First was a chow, second was a yellow lab with "issues". A handy two by four worked good on the chow-chow and I was lucky enough to be able to flip the lab on his back and get a knee in his throat.

The law does not protect, and I have no problem with the humane destruction of feral animals, be they dogs, cats, or hogs. You can add even "owned" animals who attack, harass, or threaten to attack livestock or people.

Huntinguy, you're right. If the guy had gunned your lab, the law would protect him from criminal prosecution . But he would still be jerk to shoot a hunting dog for a two dollar chicken and I might be tempted to try him out in civil court. However, he didn't. Did you attempt to locate him and pay him for the bird? And was it tasty?


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## kweber (Sep 20, 2005)

farm dogs that start running livestock usually dont last long.
usually their owners put them down, because once they start chasing sheep,cattle or whatever, it's impossible to change their ways. 
suburban dogs that run loose that have never been trained to leave livestock alone are the major problem dogs, that and dumped animals. we've taken in many abondoned dogs in last many decades I've been on this particular piece of dirt. most turned out OK. some didnt and were dealt with.
and yes, the sweet house pet can also have a very ugly side to them their owners dont see when away from supervision.
BTW, green on ya Levelwind.


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## aneel (Oct 8, 2005)

Wow! This is crazy ! The ones that really need to be shot ios the iresponsible owners and pos' that dump inoscent animals.


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## Palmetto (Jun 28, 2004)

I see 2 things that Mark is upset about.

1. The hunting dog that crossed a fence in hot pursuit, and gets shot by a deer hunter. 

2. The house pet that goes roaming everytime it gets let out, and gets shot.

Dogs dont know what fence lines are. If they are chasing a pig (for instance), they are not going to stop at the fence as say "well, you got lucky this time mr. pig". Its not the dogs fault. I wont condem anyone to hell for shooting the dog, but I would advise them to rethink it. This dog is doing what he came to do, chase the pig.

Now to dog #2. Nobody likes a roaming dog. House pet or not, these dogs dont make it long on our place. A roaming dog may just be out looking for some fresh **** to eat, but there is always the chance he stumbles upon a calf, fawn, kid, etc, and his animal instincts kick in. This dog is totally diff. from dog #1, as he is out looking for "trouble", ie. fresh ****...LOL.

You make the call. Best thing to do is not post your reactions on a public internet forum where they can be used against you in a court of law. In other words, keep it to yourself. I never cease to be amazed at the stuff people post on here.

later.


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## kweber (Sep 20, 2005)

marksmu said:


> Simply because I havent been here long - definitely should not make me a troll. I was just turned on to this site a month ago at most - and now it consumes hours of my day as I anxiously await the end of the week. I simply voiced an opinion on something I am passionate about. My dogs. And I just was hoping there was not someone out there cruel enough to shoot someones family member simply for ruining a hunt.


just look a the them, arent they precious. all tuckered out.

but, did they get that way from running deer/livestock all night?
now, hold on Markmu...I'm just using yer pic to make a point. you seem to be a responsible dog owner and I'm playing devils advocate here. but many, many dog owners have absolutly NO idea what their sweet pets are up to when said owner isnt looking.


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## catchysumfishy (Jul 19, 2008)

huntinguy said:


> Recently my lab got out of my truck and when he returned he was carrying a dead rooster. Had the owner of said rooster shot and killed Jazz I would have been devastated, at a total loss; HOWEVER its MY *responsibility* to keep up with my dog and I would NOT have said one word or blamed the roosters owner one bit!
> 
> It would be no different than him getting out and getting run over on the road and killed. It would be MY fault, not someone else.


Here it is, NUFF SAID! You hit the nail on the head!
*Responsibility of the OWNER*:bounce:


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## catchysumfishy (Jul 19, 2008)

marksmu said:


> My problem, and the one I am hearing from Levelwind as well, is not that we have a problem shooting a wild dog, who is harassing livestock, and costing ranchers money - it was the attitude that if I see a dog that wont come when I call I am going to shoot it, or the more calous statement, if I see a dog on the lease Im going to shoot it. That is a ridiculous attitude towards a dog. *You dont just shoot things when you see them, they must be doing somthing wrong to warrant it*. Just killing everything you see will give us responsible hunters a terrible name
> 
> I did not condemn the original post b.c he was clearly threatened. I dont condemn it when they are killing valuable livestock. BUT there are plenty of instances, and I can easily think of many, when a dog may be doing something wrong, and should not be shot.
> 
> ...


 So you are a Hunter "Correct", and your statement above is You don't just shoot things, they must be doing something WRONG, So you are also "and this is not name calling" a Hypocrite, what your statement say's is no one should ever shoot any wild life unless it is doing something wrong Hmmm... Hush yo mouth Boeeey, your just looking for a fight ! Dog with collar seen one time no problem "unless chasing livestock or wildlife", dog with collar seen multiple times that you can't get close too and you have no neighboring partner's that have a dog that fit's that description DOG GONE! Dogs not controlled by Non Responsible Owners DOG GONE! Dog chasing livestock/wildlife INSIDE of private property DOG GONE! Dog with no collar DOG GONE! If it were MY valuable and loved pet, that never returned or was found Shot on neighboring properties, then it would be MY fault that the Dog was put down!What it comes down to is being Responsible for your pets! Dogs that are dropped off in the country that will not come to you Are better off being hit with 1 bullet in the head than left to struggle to survive and die from starvation ! :spineyes:


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## catchysumfishy (Jul 19, 2008)

marksmu said:


> Nope - shooting his dogs will leave you liable for destruction of private property- regardless of the fact the dogs are trespassers. Same as you cannot kill your neighbors cows when they get out and eat your whole crop. All you can do is make him pay for your damages.
> 
> And shooting his dogs for scaring your deer, and ruining your weekend, would also make you a terrible person. I would try talking to the neighbor, or calling your county game warden. It is illegal for the neighbors dogs to be on your property, and the game warden can easily help you enforce that.


 How would he know you shot HIS dogs unless he was TRESPASSING also?


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## activescrape (Jan 8, 2006)

We should retitle this thread "A little excretment at the lease...."


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## phil k (May 8, 2007)

*dogs*

that is what i meant in my post ..i didn't geta chance to finish it ...lost my connection..


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## 15476 (May 15, 2006)

marksmu said:


> Zen, I was not faulting you for protecting yourself at all - especially when you were circled around by a growling dog. Certain dogs that are aggressive can be extremely dangerous, I have seen it first hand. I was faulting BigBucks & Phil K's statement. If you call it and it doesnt come it dies. Or if it growls it dies, or if no collar it dies.
> 
> I can tell you my dogs wont come to a stranger when called, and if they are cornered they growl. And they especially will not come to a stranger carrying a gun. BigBucks and Phil K's attitude towards dogs is pretty much the definition of ignorance. Anyone who will shoot a dog that wont come when called should not be allowed to possess a gun. Its people like that who will ruin the entire sport for all of us.
> 
> And I still stand by my statement - my dog is my family - shooting at my dog is the same as shooting at my wife. It will be met with return fire.


 i don't get it, your pizzed off bout shooting dogs, but your willing to shoot at a human being over a dog ? get a life. people like you is the reason im armed most of the time.


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## rlw (May 21, 2004)

You all need to chill. If the dog was acting aggressive as it seems they are fair game. No person adult or child needs to be put at risk. That being said I have four dogs here at my house and they never leave the camp at the lease.
Rick


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## Don Smith (Nov 24, 2007)

My dog ia a 110 pound Rottweiler and he stays in my backyard. I live way out in the country with my closest neighbor almost a mile away. Still I keep MY dog in MY yard behind an electric fence. The fence is not there to keep my neighbor's cows or any livestock out of my yard but to keep my dog in my yard. I have enough respect for my neighbors property that I will not allow my animals to create any issues with his livestock or game animals. I also own the property around my home and if a dog is running loose on my property, I have to assume that it is threat to my family or my livestock because I'm sure that some of the PITA lovers on this forum certainly would not allow their dogs loose to hunt on my property and I know they also obey the Texas trespass laws. So, if your dog is on my property, you had danm well better be in control of it or it will more than likely not come back.


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## DANO (May 23, 2005)

catchysumfishy said:


> So you are a Hunter "Correct", and your statement above is You don't just shoot things, they must be doing something WRONG, So you are also "and this is not name calling" a Hypocrite, what your statement say's is no one should ever shoot any wild life unless it is doing something wrong Hmmm... Hush yo mouth Boeeey, your just looking for a fight ! Dog with collar seen one time no problem "unless chasing livestock or wildlife", dog with collar seen multiple times that you can't get close too and you have no neighboring partner's that have a dog that fit's that description DOG GONE! Dogs not controlled by Non Responsible Owners DOG GONE! Dog chasing livestock/wildlife INSIDE of private property DOG GONE! Dog with no collar DOG GONE! If it were MY valuable and loved pet, that never returned or was found Shot on neighboring properties, then it would be MY fault that the Dog was put down!What it comes down to is being Responsible for your pets! Dogs that are dropped off in the country that will not come to you Are better off being hit with 1 bullet in the head than left to struggle to survive and die from starvation ! :spineyes:


DOG GONE right !!


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## the wood man (Sep 14, 2006)

On our family ranch the long time policy started by my great grandfather is dogs that are running wildlife will be shot.My dad was always concerned about them running and possible killing a calve but in my lifetime they are usually running wildlife. If a dog looks like he is somebody's pet but just got out of control I will try and save him (and have done so) but there are some dogs that take a big toll on deer and other wildlife. It is not fair to the deer to have them run to exhauston by a dog.


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## catchysumfishy (Jul 19, 2008)

DANO said:


> DOG GONE right !!


DOG GONE IT !:slimer:


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## wet dreams (May 21, 2004)

*marksmu, *if I said "shooting at my dog is the same as shooting at my wife" and she found out I would have some splaining to do....WW


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## SSMike (Aug 15, 2005)

So, anyone catch the Cowboy game....that was fun.


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## Red3Fish (Jun 4, 2004)

*I dont have a dog in this fight....but.....*

something no one has mentioned, is the uncut, male dog, visiting his neighbors! They can smell a female in heat from miles away...even out in the country...and kinda like a teenager, cant resist the call.

Some of you that have female dogs penned up might take this into consideration before just shooting a strange dog on your property. But then again....it might be disturbing to find a hole under your fence, and some cur hooked up with your high dollar, pure bred, mile long blood line female!! LOL

Like I said...no dog in this fight! LMAO

Later
R3F


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## marksmu (Dec 4, 2008)

My final 2 cents - As the issue is burned out.

All I was saying is that I think MOST hunters, myself included, are responsible enough to know a family pet from a wild dog. I would hope that hunters especially (who are supposed to have higher ethics and regard for life) would not shoot a family pet that comes running around when he got out just b/c he ruined a hunt. 

I have been hunting my entire life, and in the course of my life, especially when duck hunting, I have seen emotions get EXTREMELY high as people seem to think they have undisputed rights to certain things, places, or spots on a boat ramp because they have been there before....I just dont want to see the competitive nature of the sport, cause us to lose sight of why were hunting in the first place.

Hunting is as much about being outside enjoying nature as it is about the kill. For those of us who pour our heart and soul into improving our property you know what Im talking about. How many pictures did you take of your food plots, and the process you took planting them? That process and the anxiety leading up to finding out if it worked, is as rewarding to me as the actual hunts that I planted everything for. Hopefully we dont all lose sight of that. I can sit in the blind and watch the sun rise, and have a great day regardless of whether or not I pull the trigger. I simply do not want to lose the ability to hunt b/c there are a few wackos out there who take it so serious they start doing stupid things and cost us all the sport. Shooting a family pet qualifies as one of those things.

With that said - and in response to the better not let my wife find out I said shooting my dog is like shooting my wife...the yellow dog is hers - Im pretty sure she loves that dog more than me so I dont think that would hurt her feelings. The most dependent 70lb lap lab ever.


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## huntinguy (Aug 22, 2005)

Levelwind said:


> Huntinguy, you're right. If the guy had gunned your lab, the law would protect him from criminal prosecution . But he would still be jerk to shoot a hunting dog for a two dollar chicken and I might be tempted to try him out in civil court. However, he didn't. Did you attempt to locate him and pay him for the bird? And was it tasty?


LOL My family has long been friends with the guy whose rooster Jazz was carrying. We are really good neighbors, often when he's gone to work if his heifers get out I'll go put them back in, and if his deer hounds are wandering I'll call him and catch them.

We also get inundated with feral dogs in our area, and unfortunately can't properly board and care for all of them. Every so often 2-3 will turn up in around his house and my neighborhood and will have will be given the S,S & S treatment that was referenced early in this thread. I told him early on that if ever ANY black lab were to be in his yard to call me and I would take FULL responsibility for any damage and were the offender not my mine would return him to his home if possible or dispose of him.

I immediately called the neighbor when I saw the rooster and offered to pay. Turns out they had a few too many and he'd gunned a couple before work and was gonna get rid of them when he got home.

Jazz hasn't gotten to work any ducks this year so he brought me a rooster! lol.

Bottom line though and my main point: whether the dog gets gunned in the neighbors chicken pen or killed on the highway, its MY fault, because it is MY responsibility to keep up with him.

Thanks guys, interesting thread.


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## Nokillbill (Nov 27, 2006)

ok last week while feeding my cows i noticed in the distance what looked like a downed cow.so i drove over to see what it was.low and behold i had a dead cow with 3 dogs eating it.2 ran off and the other didnt see or here me come up.he had his head inside of the chest cavity. i dont think they actually killed the cow,but im not sure they didnt.the moral of this story is pull your head out sometimes and look over shoulder every once in awhile. and then there were 2


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## Levelwind (Apr 15, 2005)

*PENAL CODE
TITLE 9. OFFENSES AGAINST PUBLIC ORDER AND DECENCY
CHAPTER 42. DISORDERLY CONDUCT AND RELATED OFFENSES*

*
42.09. Cruelty to Animals *
(a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally or knowingly:
(1) tortures an animal;
(2) fails unreasonably to provide necessary food, care, or shelter for an animal in the person's custody;
(3) abandons unreasonably an animal in the person's custody;
(4) transports or confines an animal in a cruel manner;
(5) *kills, seriously injures, or administers poison to an animal, other than cattle, horses, sheep, swine, or goats, belonging to another without legal authority or the owner's effective consent;
*(6) causes one animal to fight with another;
(7) uses a live animal as a lure in dog race training or in dog coursing on a racetrack;
(8) trips a horse;
(9) injures an animal, other than cattle, horses, sheep, swine, or goats, belonging to another without legal authority or the owner's effective consent; or
(10) seriously overworks an animal.

(b) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that the actor was engaged in bona fide experimentation for scientific research. 
(c) For purposes of this section:
(1) "Abandon" includes abandoning an animal in the person's custody without making reasonable arrangements for assumption of custody by another person.
(2) "Animal" means a domesticated living creature and wild living creature previously captured. "Animal" does not include
an uncaptured wild creature or a wild creature whose capture was accomplished by conduct at issue under this section.
(3) "Cruel manner" includes a manner that causes or permits unjustified or unwarranted pain or suffering.
(4) "Custody" includes responsibility for the health, safety, and welfare of an animal subject to the person's care and control, regardless of ownership of the animal.
(5) "Necessary food, care, or shelter" includes food, care, or shelter provided to the extent required to maintain the animal in a state of good health.
(6) "Trip" means to use an object to cause a horse to fall or lose its balance.

(d) An offense under Subsection (a)(2), (3), (4), (9), or (10) is a Class A misdemeanor, except that the offense is a state jail felony if the person has previously been convicted two times under this section.

(e) *It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (a)(5) that the animal was discovered on the person's property in the act of or immediately after injuring or killing the person's goats, sheep, cattle, horses, swine, or poultry and that the person killed or injured the animal at the time of this discovery. *
(f) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (a)(8) that the actor tripped the horse for the purpose of identifying the ownership of the horse or giving veterinary care to the horse.

(g) *An offense under Subsection (a)(1), (5), (6), (7), or is a state jail felony,* except that the offense is a felony of the third degree if the person has previously been convicted two times under this section.

(g) It is a defense to prosecution for an offense under this section that the person had a reasonable fear of bodily injury to the person or to another by a dangerous wild animal as defined by Section 822.101, Health and Safety Code

(h) It is an exception to the application of this section that the conduct engaged in by the actor is a generally accepted and otherwise lawful:
(1) use of an animal if that use occurs solely for the purpose of:
(A) fishing, hunting, or trapping; or
(B) wildlife control as regulated by state and federal law; or
(2) animal husbandry or farming practice involving livestock.

Just in case anyone is interested in reading the actual statute. Of course, like most law, especially fairly recent ones, case law (actual rulings) are nearly as authoritative as the statutes themselves.

I'd comment that a number of cases have been tried since these laws were passed, and that there is legislative pressure to strengthen the statutes.

I also think that it's obvious to anyone who has ever been to a South Texas ranch that in the middle of such a ranch, a dog shooter would have to be very stupid, or very unlucky indeed to be caught, and then would have a decent chance of being let off with a slap on the wrist by cow country prosecutors. Other areas of the country, though, are a lot riskier. Someone made a comment that if dogs were witnessed being shot on anothers property, the witness must have also been trespassing. Maybe so, maybe not. Swarovski is a wonderful thing. But perhaps so. I'd risk a simple (no firearm, daytime) trespassing hassle to catch a felon.

You'll notice that the law doesn't predict stock killers (e), but read it carefully if you plan to use it as a defense to whacking the neighbors collie. The defense is only valid DURING or AFTER the attack, the livestock animal must have been injured or killed, and the whacking must have occurred at the time of discovery. You will also notice the law is specific to the types of animals which must have been injured or killed (game animals are not included).

The argument that there are leash laws, animals owner is responsible, the dog was trespassing, etc., etc., blah blah blah are not mentioned either as exceptions or as defense to prosecution - which by the way, is sort of a sneaky underhanded way to shift the burden of proof from the state to the accused - if you claim you gunned the neighbors collie because he ate your goat, you should have some fairly decent evidence that he did.

Some of you believe it's your God given right to gun whatever crosses your fenceline and have no compunction about it. I doubt I will change your mind on an internet message board. Some of you have dealt with feral dogs for years, almost HAVE to deal with them, and can make a pretty good determination of a feral animal vs a pet or a hunting or stock dog. Some of you, I can tell, believe the law justifies you in a case of "trespassing dog" or 'cause my grandaddy said" and had no idea that you can go to jail, and lose your right to ever own a firearm again, besides being sued for everything you own. So do as you will.


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## marksmu (Dec 4, 2008)

Levelwind, - nice post - it is always helpful to have the actual law in front of you. It is interesting to note that when a criminal statute specifically enumerates the animals that may be protected, the law intentionally does not include the others.

When livestock was defined here, it was defined as *goats, sheep, cattle, horses, swine, or poultry

*Thus the law specifically excludes as a defense to prosecution protecting deer. An exact application of the statute thus tells you that it IS a Class A misdemeanor to shoot anothers dog because a dog is * an animal, other than cattle, horses, sheep, swine, or goats, belonging to another.*

and *(9) made it illegal to injure an animal, other than cattle, horses, sheep, swine, or goats, belonging to another without legal authority or the owner's effective consent*

Thus if you know the animal is anothers animal, and it is attacking your deer, or ruining your day, it is a Class A misdemeanor to shoot it.

But like Levelwind said - I doubt you would be prosecuted. I just hope people use some common sense. My previous post reflects my true feelings on the subject. I love to hunt & fish, but I love my dogs more.


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## Roby (Jul 12, 2005)

Can I shoot my neighbor's dog for crapping on my front lawn?


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## Hair Trigger (Dec 23, 2005)

*dog*

I gave my wife a beautiful little border collie puppy for a wedding gift. She is really good about staying on my place, however, is almost impossible to keep in the yard.

Last year, the rancher that lives behind me came by and said that she had been over at his place chasing cows (registered red angus). He (sheepishly) told my wife and I that he would hate to do it... but would have to put her down if she continued. I said that I absolutely understood and would hate to see it but he was well within his rights to do so and that I would have no ill will if he did.

Luckily, that was the last trip she made to his pasture. On the other hand, I have hunters all around me and if one of them shot my dog for chasing deer, I would likely not be quite as understanding. i would talk to the land owner and the hunter as well so they could look me in the eye and explain their reasoning.

In short, the dog is my responsiblity not anyone elses and if she gets shot while on someone elses ranch, it is my bad luck (and training).

I have not personally shot a dog...but I sure have considered it a time or two.

That said...this subject may well be played out.

Merry Christmas boys.


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