# Why should you be allowed into Heaven?



## TrueblueTexican (Aug 29, 2005)

Jesus was crucified on a Roman Cross, convicted of treason against the Jewish government, but nailed to the cross because Pilate would not take responsibility for him. Jesus died about the noon hour the day he was nailed to those posts, he DESCENDED into Lucifers realm, defeated death,(there was not a War as some preachers like to preach, Lucifer was ALREADY defeated) and Rose from Death on the third day, walked among his followers in Spirit Form for a while and ASCENDED to his father.

This same Jesus said to us all, it is appointed *once* for you to die, then comes judgement.

All sin and come short of Gods Glory - Our Creator loved us so much , he sent Christ to DIE in our stead as a LIVING sacrifice and example for all mankind.

Call upon Jesus name, believe in him and you SHALL be saved. Strive to be a better man, LISTEN to the HOLY SPIRIT, pray unceasingly, ask for forgiveness, walk the walk and talk the talk, be FAITHFUL until the END, and your room is waiting for you after your body ceases to function.

I will stand in that docket one day as ALL people of this earth have done and will do

God will ask me why should I let you in my Kingdom - I will testify, you promised that if I called on Jesus name, REPENTED of my Sin and remained faithful to my death , I would have a room in your mansion - God will close the Book of Life, and I shall pass his gates -

What a day that will be !!!!!

I wanna be in the Choir singing, walking the streets, meeting interesting people, seeing Gods wonderous Hosts, meeting his Angels, and perhaps talking to my Creator, Jesus, John the Baptist, Billy Graham, and so many more who have been there a while - I will see some family members, and finally understand with clarity what I should have been about, what God purposed me for -


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## DCAVA (Aug 5, 2013)

Good post.


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

If everyone was going to heaven or eternal hell, why is there a resurrection spoken of in the bible? Where will those that will ( according to the bible) be resurrected, be resurrected to? Why did Jesus compare death to sleep? Why does the bible say that the dead are conscience of nothing? Why does the bible speak of a great crowd and a little flock, that both hear and respond to their masters (Jesus) voice? Why wouldn't they all be classified together?

Many people are easily led, but really don't understand the truths of God's word.


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## TrueblueTexican (Aug 29, 2005)

*Hmmm*

Only thing I got for ya Shaggy is this "to be ABSENT from the body is to be present with God." II Corinthians 5-8

Which presupposes what likely follows when you are present with God - The Holy Spirit witnesses this to my understanding --that when my body ceases to function , My Spirit will immediately be in Gods presence, not that all will remain IN his presence after judgement

My belief and what I understand from Gods word are two separate judgments. Followers of Christ immediately after death, are judged at the Judgment Seat of Christ (Romans 14:10-12). Every believer will give an account of himself, and the Lord will judge the decisions he madeâ€"including those concerning issues of conscience. This judgment does not determine your admittance to Heaven, which is by faith alone (Ephesians 2:8-9), but rather is the time when genuine followers of Chist must give an account of their lives in service to Christ. Our position in Christ is the â€œfoundationâ€ spoken of in 1 Corinthians 3:11-15. That which we build upon the foundation can be the â€œgold, silver, and precious stonesâ€ of obedient service in Jesus name, obedience and fruitfulnessâ€"dedicated spiritual service to glorify God and build on Jesus foundation. Or what we build on the foundation may be the â€œwood, hay and stubbleâ€ of worthless, frivolous, shallow activity with no spiritual value. The Judgment Seat of Christ will reveal this.

This last will be very embarrasing to me personallysad2sm

The gold, silver and precious stones in the lives of believers will survive Godâ€™s refining fire (v. 13), and believers will be rewarded based on how faithfully we served Christ (1 Corinthians 9:4-27), how well we obeyed the Great Commission (Matthew 28:18-20), how victorious we were over sin (Romans 6:1-4), how well we controlled our tongues (James 3:1-9), etc. We will have to give an account for our actions, whether they were truly indicative of our position in Christ. The fire of Godâ€™s judgment will completely burn up the â€œwood, hay and stubbleâ€ of the words we spoke and things we did which had no eternal value. â€œSo then, each of us will give an account of himself to Godâ€ (Romans 14:12 ).

The second judgment is that of the dead, and tares removed from the wheat, who were not called to Christian account who will be judged at the Great White Throne Judgment (Revelation 20:11-15). This judgment does not determine salvation, either. Everyone at the Great White Throne is an unbeliever who has rejected Christ in life (anti-Christs) and are FOREVER seperate/removed from a HOLY Creator. Revelation 20:12 says that unbelievers will be â€œjudged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.â€ Those who have rejected Christ as Lord and Savior will be judged based on their works alone, and because the Bible tells us that â€œby the works of the Law no flesh will be justifiedâ€ (Galatians 2:16), they will be separated. No amount of good works and the keeping of Godâ€™s laws can be sufficient to pay for a wanton sinful life. All Anti-Christs thoughts, words and actions will be judged against Godâ€™s perfect standard and found wanting. There will be no reward for them, only eternal separation.

This pretty well sums up what the Holy Spirit has revealed to my Spirit -

The resistance to being judged, placing yourself in Lucifers prison, (what happens for a while) - there* is* a place created by God to contain the spirits and host which stand in Rebellion to him - call it Hell, Sheol, a place of torment or what you wish - the Bible does say you are in torment, you are thirsty, there is is a physical consequence to your soul

The final judgement at the millennial end all these spirits, including the dragon, Lucifer will cease to be - eternity ceases for them -final permanent oblivion.

"But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, 'Raca,' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. And anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the *fire of hell.*

I don't think that's allegorically written - it stands for what it is --

I would love to think that God does not judge OR punish us - but he did and does all through his word.


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

A lot of what you say I can agree with, we will all be held accountable. But that still does not address the resurrection. Was Jesus wrong when he compared sleep with death? Wasn't Lazarus, Jesus friend, a righteous man. If he was, shouldn't he have been immediately in the presence of God as you state? Yet he was entombed for 4 days. There was a reason Jesus did not resurrect him for 4 days, not that he could not get there quicker. If Lazarus was indeed with God, in heaven and all that entails, wouldn't it have been unfair to him (Lazarus) for Jesus to resurrect him back to earth?

What about the great crowd spoken of at Revelation 7:9. (Revelation 7:9) After these things I saw, and, look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes; and there were palm branches in their hands.

How does the great crowd differ from the little flock that is spoken of in Luke 12:32? (Luke 12:32) â€œHave no fear, little flock, because YOUR Father has approved of giving YOU the kingdom.
Notice that they are given the kingdom. The great crowd is not spoken of to inherit the kingdom. How do you explain that?

As far as the condition of the dead, what does Ecclesiastes say? Ecclesiastes 9:5 â€¯For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten. Now compare Psalm 146:4. (Psalm 146:4) His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground; In that day his thoughts do perish.


I am going to copy and past the condition of the dead as I see it. It explains it better than me. It also gives several scriptural references that you might want to refer to. The dead are shown to be â€œconscious of nothing at allâ€ and the death state to be one of complete inactivity. (Ec 9:5,Â 10; Ps 146:4) Those dying are described as going into â€œthe dust of deathâ€ (Ps 22:15), becoming â€œimpotent in death.â€ (Pr 2:18; Isa 26:14) In death there is no mention of God or any praising of him. (Ps 6:5; Isa 38:18,Â 19) In both the Hebrew and the Greek Scriptures, death is likened to sleep, a fitting comparison not only because of the unconscious condition of the dead but also because of the hope of an awakening through the resurrection. (Ps 13:3; Joh 11:11-14) The resurrected Jesus is spoken of as â€œthe firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep in death.â€â€”1Co 15:20,Â 21.
Whereas the ancient Egyptians and other peoples of pagan nations, and particularly the Grecian philosophers, were strong in their belief in the deathlessness of the human soul, both the Hebrew Scriptures and the Christian Greek Scriptures speak of the soul (Heb., neâ€²phesh; Gr., psyÂ·kheâ€²) as dying (Jg 16:30; Eze 18:4,Â 20; Re 16:3), needing deliverance from death (Jos 2:13; Ps 33:19; 56:13; 116:8; Jas 5:20), or as in the Messianic prophecy concerning Jesus Christ, being â€œpoured out .Â .Â . to the very deathâ€ (Isa 53:12; compare Mt 26:38). The prophet Ezekiel condemns those who connived â€œto put to death the souls that ought not to dieâ€ and â€œto preserve alive the souls that ought not to live.â€â€”Eze 13:19

Again we all carry our own burden and await judgement, but that judgement is in the future, it does not happen immediately after death.


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## TrueblueTexican (Aug 29, 2005)

*Read this mans account*

"90 minutes in Heaven"

I believe he was there - he was dead, he was sent back for a purpose, for him a very physically painful purpose - much as Lazarus, dead for four "earth" days was returned, I am quite sure Lazarus Spirit was returned to his body clawing and kicking, after being in the presence of God -- but Lazarus was returned to demonstrate Gods Power and Miracle and testament for believers and unbelievers, Imagine what he told of his experience while with God !!!!

The time elements and intervals are irrelevant to a timeless God and eternity - as such, linear time as we may reckon it has no meaning - hence the dead/ Spirit do not reckon time - its irrelevant -

Your body however does physically degrade after physical death - so if God forms you from clay its easy to believe he could restore that same bodily form at any point of time or degradation - if your former body happens to be dust at that time , well God did it before --

Physical and Spiritual realms and timelines as spoken of in Gods word "Interpreted" cause confusion - whats a day? Is it 24 hours or as the Bible says "a day unto the Lord is like unto a thousand years", did God create in Six days or over eons? We will find out someday in Gods time.


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## atcfisherman (Oct 5, 2006)

Interesting.........I must have deleted my reply!!!! UGH!!!!! I love it when I hit the wrong key. Sorry bout that.


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

Many unanswered questions in this thread.


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

Revelation 20:6 speaks of the resurrection of the living...


"Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."

What you speak of above is the resurrection of that "little flock", those that will be kings and priest, ruling with Christ Jesus. They will be resurrected "in a twinkling of an eye" immediately when they die. There is a specific number of these that were Bought with the blood of the lamb, Christ Jesus, 144,000. These are the ones that have a heavenly calling. If they are ruling in heaven with Jesus, that means they are ruling over someone. Who is that someone?

That someone is the great crowd,"that no man was able to number", spoken of at Revelation 7:9. That great crowd have an earthly calling, they will include the ones that are righteous and live through God's great day, the battle of Armageddon, it will also include those that were spoke of in God's book of life (they will be resurrected)as you mentioned. It gives me great comfort to know that I will have the opportunity to see my mother and father again, right here on earth when they are resurrected, if I can remain faithful myself. I look forward to that with great joy.

Here is your quote of Matthew 5: 29,29 John 5:28-29, " Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which ALL that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the RESURRECTION OF LIFE; and they that have done evil, unto the RESURRECTION OF DAMNATION."

I agree with this 100%. This shows that those in the graves were not in heaven, they were in the common grave of mankind, call it hell, hades, sheol, they are the same. They were called from the grave. Where will they reside? ON EARTH. They are the great crowd spoken of in Revelation.


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## DA REEL DADDY (Jun 7, 2005)

shaggydog said:


> Many unanswered questions in this thread.


It is not for us to know all the answers.

Great post, Thanks. H


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

DA REEL DADDY said:


> It is not for us to know all the answers.
> 
> Great post, Thanks. H


God wants us to have the answers. They are in the bible, but they have to be searched for as valuable treasures. His word is the most valuable thing we have.


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## DA REEL DADDY (Jun 7, 2005)

shaggydog said:


> God wants us to have the answers. They are in the bible, but they have to be searched for as valuable treasures. His word is the most valuable thing we have.


God reveals to us what he wants us to know.

I don't think he intends for us to know as much as him.

Part of which is Faith. As in I don't understand why my family member develop cancer and passed away. I will accept as God's will
for a reason I don't understand yet, but with Faith I accepted as his will.

If we are both referring to the same thing.

There are a lot of lessons, parables, and information in the bible. That is why we study to learn and strengthen ourselves.


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

DA REEL DADDY said:


> God reveals to us what he wants us to know.
> 
> I don't think he intends for us to know as much as him.


I absolutely agree. We will never know as much as Him. But He wants us to know His word and to use it to make our lives richer, not in a materialistic sense, but a spiritual sense. The light will be brighter as the end draws nearer. The light is getting brighter if you know where to look.


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## TrueblueTexican (Aug 29, 2005)

*Not too far apart, Shaggy*

_"Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."_

As I understand this - you are DEAD in spirit, up until the point you accept Jesus Christ as Lord of your life --you are symbolically buried with Christ, and for all intents and purposes Salvation, permanently conquering FINAL death, is YOUR first resurrection (while living) the second death is bodily death, it has no power over you because Jesus defeated death for eternity, you are a royal priesthood, made holy by Christs sacrifice, and thus exist as a now "Living Spirit", and after Christ returns a perfected one during the millennium reign and beyond." In the twinkling of an eye we are changed"

As I understand the great crowd are ALL the people whom God Saves, believers in Christ post Law to Christs return and those whom God saves from the beginning of Adam and Eve to the time of Christ.

That would likely be a number of Spirits far too great to count.

Historically --

Megiddo overlooks the western part of the Jezreel Valley and controls a strategic access point to the plain below.
The plain of Megiddo has five gates. One is the defile leading to the Bay of Acco, and another the threefold gate to the plain of Sharon, formed by narrow valleys across Carmel and guarded by the three fortresses of Jokneam, Megiddo, and Taanach. Of these Megiddo was by far the most important, because it controlled also the narrow volcanic causeway leading across the easily flooded plain.

Megiddo was in the plain of Esdraelon, â€œwhich has been a chosen place for encampment in every contest carried on in Palestine from the days of Nabuchodonozor king of Assyria, unto the disastrous march of Napoleon Bonaparte from Egypt into Syria. Jews, Gentiles, Saracens, Christian crusaders, and anti-Christian Frenchmen; Egyptians, Persians, Druses, Turks, and Arabs, warriors of every nation that is under heaven, have pitched their tents on the plain of Esdraelon, and have beheld the banners of their nation wet with the dews of Tabor and Hermonâ€ --

God will intervene and destroy the armies aligned with the Antichrist(Lucifer is NOT THE AntiChrist !!!) as predicted in biblical prophecy (Revelation 16:16; 20:1-3, 7-10). There will be a multitude of people engaged in the battle of Armageddon, as all the nations gather together to fight against Christ. Revelation 16:16 is the only verse which mentions Armageddon specifically, and then only as the gathering place for battle.

From what I study the battle on the Plains of Megiddo is not Gods final exclamation, its a precursor to Jesus return certainly, the battle itself destroys the Armies aligned against Christ, and is somewhere along the seven years of Tribulation each succeeding year more terrible than the preceding one- What did Christ say about this in the Mt Olive prophecy? â€œAnd ye shall hear of WARS and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yetâ€ (Matthew 24:6). There will be all kinds of wars from the first coming of Christ to the Second Comingâ€"but those right at the very end before His Second Coming will be about 1000 times worse than any ever on this planet! That is what Christ is telling us.

This is the same period that the Prophet Daniel called â€œthe time of the endâ€â€"or as some scholars translate it, â€œthe CRISIS AT THE CLOSE.â€ It is the worst crisis ever on this Earth! We ought to take note because it is already beginning, unfolding before our eyes. Look at all the countries that have nuclear, biological and chemical weapons and are ready to use them. Once you start such an all out war, I doubt the genie can be stuffed back in.

Whole nations to the man won't be in this battle, just the Warriors, Christians, contrary to some teachings, will still be present. A very few faithful Christians will be protected, and many lukewarm will die. Still yet to come is the Seventh Seal, which BEFORE Jesus returns will REMOVE the remaining tares from among the wheat - not as is popularly taught, the other way around - those in Christ and alive at this time will be spared removal, then with the sounding of the Trump will be changed in an instant and meet Christ in the air -- the dead in Christ shall rise, the dead being as yet un-resurrected bodies, the spirit returned to them perfected.

Whew lot to absorb and study - Holy Spirit Open our eyes and ears, give us courage to speak to those who don't know you, make opportunities for us to tell others --

Revelations when read is a blessing to all believers - its a mystery, and its SPIRITUAL, book filled with symbolism, many possible "interpretations" I don't profess to know it, its interesting to me and the historical aspects at the time it was written have to be taken in account.

I digress, this has gone far afield, I pray all reading will study to Gods Glory --in Jesus name --


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## DA REEL DADDY (Jun 7, 2005)

shaggydog said:


> I absolutely agree. We will never know as much as Him. But He wants us to know His word and to use it to make our lives richer, not in a materialistic sense, but a spiritual sense. The light will be brighter as the end draws nearer. The light is getting brighter if you know where to look.


Amen to that.


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

Trueblue, I will try to take this a little at a time. This is my understanding. Part 1

"Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."

As I understand this - you are DEAD in spirit, up until the point you accept Jesus Christ as Lord of your life --you are symbolically buried with Christ, and for all intents and purposes Salvation, permanently conquering FINAL death, is YOUR first resurrection (while living) the second death is bodily death, it has no power over you because Jesus defeated death for eternity, you are a royal priesthood, made holy by Christs sacrifice, and thus exist as a now "Living Spirit", and after Christ returns a perfected one during the millennium reign and beyond." In the twinkling of an eye we are changed"

My Thoughts The first resurrection is speaking only of the annointed, the little flock, those with a heavenly calling, the kings and priest ruling with Jesus. At the end of their life course, if they have proved faithful, they will immediately, in a twinkling of an eye, be resurrected as spirit creatures to heaven. The second death (no opportunity of a resurrection) has no power over them because they have already been judged, and declared righteous. There is no resurrection while living because you have to be dead to be resurrected. The second death means no hope of a resurrection.


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

Trueblue Part 2


As I understand the great crowd are ALL the people whom God Saves, believers in Christ post Law to Christs return and those whom God saves from the beginning of Adam and Eve to the time of Christ.

That would likely be a number of Spirits far too great to count.

MY THOUGHTS The great crowd is completely different from the little flock that rule with Jesus in heaven. The great crowd have an earthly hope. They hear and respond to the voice of their master, Jesus, just as the little flock, or anointed do, and they benefit from the blessings that God holds out for us. These are the ones that are written in God's Book of Life, those that are declared righteous by Him. It will include the faithful men of old, all those before Jesus walked the earth, as well as those that put faith in the ransom, have alligned their life with God's will, and remained faithful until the end of their life or until this system ends. They will not be spirit creatures.
These are the ones that have the resurrection hope. The resurrection speaks of a resurrection of the righteous and unrighteous. But be aware, any that died at the hands of God, do not have the hope of a resurrection, ie Noah's day, Sodom and Gommorrah, etc. Those that are destroyed at Armageddon will not have the hope of the resurrection. That is why it is very important to have ACCURATE knowledge. Those that are misled by many of the religious leaders today and are destroyed at Armageddon will not have the resurrection hope. That being said, God can read hearts, and is the final judge.
People have really been misled by the teachings that all good people go to heaven and all bad people go to a burning hell. There are many scriptures to refer to but I am only going to refer to two. Look first at Revelation 21:3,4. This is my favorite scripture in the bible and it is referring to the time after Aramgeddon. (Revelation 21:3, 4) With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: â€œLook! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them. 4Â And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.â€ It speaks of death being done away with.

Now look at Pslams 37:29. (Psalm 37:29) The righteous themselves will possess the earth, And they will reside forever upon it. Also referring to the time after Armageddon, the point being that the righteous will reside forever on the earth. This is kind of a simplified version, but it is hard to get the full point across on the internet. I hope you will understand why I believe as I do.

God does not want any to be destroyed. My main reason on posting on this forum is because I would love to see everyone on this board, in paradise some day. It is the promise and blessing that is held out to us.


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

Trueblue Part 3

God will intervene and destroy the armies aligned with the Antichrist(Lucifer is NOT THE AntiChrist !!!) as predicted in biblical prophecy (Revelation 16:16; 20:1-3, 7-10). There will be a multitude of people engaged in the battle of Armageddon, as all the nations gather together to fight against Christ. Revelation 16:16 is the only verse which mentions Armageddon specifically, and then only as the gathering place for battle.


MY THOUGHTS The antichrist consist of any opposed to or against Christ. The antichrist is spoken of by the apostle John in his writings at First John. There are many antichrist.
I agree that Revelation is a hard book to understand, but it is a very interesting book. The book talks of Armageddon and who is aligned against Jesus. We know that Satan is the ruler of this system and it is Satan that is controlling the political powers and merchants of the world. As you yourself stated ALL the nations (political powers and merchants) gather together to fight against Christ. They do this because they are Satan led. They do not stand a chance. After the battle, Satan and his demons will be abyssed for a thousand years. This will begin Christ's Millenial reign. It is after the battle of Armageddon that the resurrection will take place. Millions upon millions will be resurrected (great crowd).


Whole nations to the man won't be in this battle, just the Warriors, Christians, contrary to some teachings, will still be present. A very few faithful Christians will be protected, and many lukewarm will die. Still yet to come is the Seventh Seal, which BEFORE Jesus returns will REMOVE the remaining tares from among the wheat - not as is popularly taught, the other way around - those in Christ and alive at this time will be spared removal, then with the sounding of the Trump will be changed in an instant and meet Christ in the air -- the dead in Christ shall rise, the dead being as yet un-resurrected bodies, the spirit returned to them perfected.


MY THOUGHTS True Christians will not be involved in this battle, they will sit back and watch as interested spectators. This is the battle of the Almighty God. But the battle will have a profound effect on every man, woman, and child living at the time. There will be some that will live through the battle. There is no lukewarm here. You are on one side or the other. God spoke of those lukewarm ones, that "He would vomit them out...". Many that think they are aligned with Christ are not. They will die with no hope of a resurrection.


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

Trueblue Part 4

Whew lot to absorb and study - Holy Spirit Open our eyes and ears, give us courage to speak to those who don't know you, make opportunities for us to tell others --

Revelations when read is a blessing to all believers - its a mystery, and its SPIRITUAL, book filled with symbolism, many possible "interpretations" I don't profess to know it, its interesting to me and the historical aspects at the time it was written have to be taken in account. 

MY THOUGHTS Revelation is a lot to absorb, and it is a blessing that John had the vision and left it for us. It is filled with symbolism, but it has literal meanings also. I do not think it is a mystery, but to me the most difficult book of the bible to grasp. All of those symbolic beast spoken of have meaning. It is only through the understandings of the faithful and discreet slave, that those meanings are made clear. 

I can tell you this, the earth will not be destroyed by neucular weapons. The US/England alliance will never lose it's dominant world power, but not because they are favored by God. It is part of the sequense of world powers symbolically spoken of in Revelation. It is clearly evident that the end of this system is near. The warning is being given, just as it was in Noah's day, but relatively few are responding. The end will come, it will not delay, but it will be on God's time schedule. He does not want any to be destroyed, but to avoid being destoryed, it is critical to have ACCURATE knowledge. 

I am sure I left out something, but there was a lot to look at.


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## Fish&Chips (Jan 27, 2012)

I shouldn't be allowed into heaven, but I thank God for covering me with his righteousness and welcoming me.


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