# throwing tailing loops like crazy



## rjackh (Mar 16, 2011)

i have a guide booked this weekend so i have vowed to practice every day this week to get un-rusty and get the most out of the trip. i was practicing today and noticed i was throwing tailing loops over and over. ive been trying to concentrate on keeping my elbow in close to my body and not using as much wrist which is helping. it seems like the harder i double haul, the worse the cast is though. however, some of my casts are perfect, i just cant seem to repeat exactly what i did on that perfect cast the next time. any help or ideas of what could be wrong? ive had instructors tell me before that tailing loops are caused by too much power applied at the wrong time. am i not waiting long enough before i haul on the forward cast? im throwing an 8 wt loomis crosscurrent with #8 SA redfish line. wind was pretty stiff today but i was changing directions to practice with wind from all sides and stuff.


----------



## GringoViejo (Feb 2, 2010)

Most of the time when my casts are falling apart not pausing long enough on the back cast and rushing into the forward cast is the problem.

The experts should chime in soon.

Suerte.....Catch some fish


----------



## Dawg (Oct 4, 2010)

http://2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/showthread.php?t=305866 I posted a video at the end of this thread.


----------



## Boboe (Feb 11, 2009)

Tailing loops are caused by a failure to continue to smoothly accelerate through the stroke until you stop. To put it differently, if you go zero-to-sixty in two seconds and hold sixty for the last second, your loop will tail. Solutions are to either go zero-to-sixty in three seconds (then abruptly stop), or to do that same zero to sixty in two seconds, and in the third second keep accelerating up to 80. It's a decent-enough analogy that you should get it I think.


----------



## shallowist (May 28, 2009)

There is one and only one cause of a tailing loop! The* rod tip* moves through a convex or downward curving path. The interesting part is that there are more than a few ways to make a fly rod tip move through this path.

1) Already mentioned above, you are at full acceleration form the very start of the cast. Your casting stroke must accelerate smoothly, progressing up to a maximum speed then stop. Load the rod then let it unload with a smooth stop.
2) Your hand phyiscally moves through a downward curving arc. 
3) You are pulling back on the rod as you make the stop portion of your cast.
4)Your foreward casting stroke stops to high, not pointed horizontal enough to allow the line to straighten in a foreward path.

That is a short list of casting faults that I have seen that typically end up creating a tailing loop. All will cause a convex rod tip path. Often people will make a short back cast stroke that will not allow adequate foreward movement for the next casting stroke. This tends to make casters over accelerate the foreward casting stroke.

A simple solution to many of these casting errors is to finish the foreward stroke by tilting your hand or wrist foreward at the end of the stroke. stroke should end with the rod tip pointed towards your target at an angle somewhere between 0-30 degrees above parallel to the ground.

If this doesn't help, or you need greater clarification, I could probably dig deeper. It should take about 2 minutes of having a good casting instructor watch you to identify the cause and hopefully a correction to the tailing loop.

Good luck!


----------



## jsinac (Jan 18, 2010)

This was very well said by shallowist. The only thing that I would add is that for experienced casters, the reason a tailing loop suddenly tends to appear is that they are trying to overcast by muscling the cast. You point out in your original post that locking your wrist helps. Good - this keeps you from trying to create power from your wrist rather than from the rod. As your cast length increases, the butt of the rod also needs to displace more space. This is where the cast can fall apart. Focus on the path of the rod butt, make sure you are accelerating to a stop, and as shallowist points out, tilt your wrist at the end of your cast (not during). Everything you indicate says your are muscling the cast though. Relax, that is a $750 fly rod you are using - get your money's worth and let the rod do the work.


----------



## shallowist (May 28, 2009)

I was hasty in my response, and after reading all of your original post, I would like to ammend. 

If your non hauling cast is working well with no tailing loop. Try this; make your hauls very short. I have seen people try to haul really hard, and it starts to effect their casting hand movements. Try making your hauls without moving your hauling hand more than 1 foot from your casting hand. 

Like the good captain said above, don't force the rod, if you spent that much money you should be able to get some ROI out of the rod....  Load the road gently and let it do the work.


----------



## Rich11111 (Jul 17, 2010)

This may help with the visual
http://www.rajeffsports.com/video.php?id=tailingloop

This helps me with the double hall


----------



## bmoc (Mar 23, 2011)

Try starting your haul later in the casting stroke.


----------



## rjackh (Mar 16, 2011)

thanks for the tips guys. i practiced again yesterday while concentrating on being as smooth as possible and it really helped a lot. i think my main problem was that i was trying to muscle it way too much. i know this is off topic for this thread, but my next issue now is accuracy. anyone have tips to improve accuracy? one thing i noticed yesterday was the more overhanded i casted (that is the less side arm i casted) the more accurate i was. i felt like my loops were better when doing this too. this a coincidence or good form?

oh and btw, i **** sure did not pay $750 for this rod. i have the plain crosscurrent without the fancy real seat, and i got it at wholesale through connections... this college kid cant afford a $750 stick lol. i am very pleased with it so far even though is not as forgiving as some of the other rods ive had.


----------



## shallowist (May 28, 2009)

rjackh said:


> thanks for the tips guys. i practiced again yesterday while concentrating on being as smooth as possible and it really helped a lot. i think my main problem was that i was trying to muscle it way too much. i know this is off topic for this thread, but my next issue now is accuracy. anyone have tips to improve accuracy? one thing i noticed yesterday was the more overhanded i casted (that is the less side arm i casted) the more accurate i was. i felt like my loops were better when doing this too. this a coincidence or good form?
> 
> oh and btw, i **** sure did not pay $750 for this rod. i have the plain crosscurrent without the fancy real seat, and i got it at wholesale through connections... this college kid cant afford a $750 stick lol. i am very pleased with it so far even though is not as forgiving as some of the other rods ive had.


You nailed the accuracy on the head. More of an overhand cast and make sure the casting stroke moves in a path that is 180 degrees oposite the target. Sidearm casts tend to create a potential sideways unrolling of the casting loop. This will allow the fly more opportunity to land left or right of the target versus a cast where the line loop unrolls over in a vertical plane.


----------



## rjackh (Mar 16, 2011)

went out with my guide he changed me all up lol. i know when its windy, casting lower to the surface of the water is easier that casting high up in the air. he explained you can cast real overhead in certain situations and its fine, but he likes to do a more sidearm ish type cast. he uses a lot more wrist movement, but still keeps the rod traveling in a straight path and not an arc. it works perfectly for him, i tried it and it works well for me too. watching him cast like this makes me realize this is how almost everyone i see on tv cast too...


----------



## Boboe (Feb 11, 2009)

Sidearm casting is.... well, let's not get into this argument. If you're dealing with a howling wind in your face, there's a better way to get through it than sidearming the rod. Punching into the wind is very doable.


----------



## rjackh (Mar 16, 2011)

i think i just need more practice at home and more time on the water. i was very embarrassed with my performance on the trip. i just dont have the experience yet and get too excited when i see fish. i feel the wind in my face or coming across me and automatically think i have to muscle it. then i throw a huge *** loop which falls way short of the fish. i had atleast 30 shots and reds but due to clouds, fish not cooperating and mainly my lack of skill, i only landed 4 fish. all 4 were caught in the 1 hour of good sunshine we had all day.


----------



## Bowfin47 (Mar 29, 2011)

Come to the Gulf Coast Council 2011 EXPO on Friday and Sat. of next week (May 6/7th) in San Antonio and receive all the free casting lessons that you'd like from a great group of CCI's and MCI's! There will also be a number of rod dealers represented...

If ya' do, I guarantee that you''l have a ball AND have the opportunity to improve all your casting skills...

Folks this type of event affords you the chance to to learn from a host of experts in a variety of areas of fly fishing..that's why we do these...

Please check it our at: http://www.gulfcoastfff.org/index.php?page=expo-2011

Hope to see you there.

Kyle Moppert
President GCC


----------



## Golden (Aug 1, 2006)

Like Mr. Moppert advised, the GCC Expo will afford you a great opportunity to cast some nice gear with some very good instructors. However if you don't want to travel all the way to SA, and if you are located in and around Houston, we have several certified FFF Casting instructors giving extremely affordable lessons through our Texas Flyfishers Club. Check out our website www.texasflyfishers.org and you will find some great local info.

Also while learning your cast...now is a great time due to the high winds we are experiencing. Once you learn to manage the wind - boy does it get easy when it is calm! Practice casting with a smooth stroke into the wind you will feel the line do all of the work when you get it right. The art of the hull is in my opinion a little over stressed. Most of the redfish and trout you will catch either wading or from the front of a boat will be within 30' which shouldn't even require hulling. My tip would be to eliminate false casting as much as possible. Accuracy is king though. GOLDEN


----------



## flatscat1 (Jun 2, 2005)

shallowist said:


> There is one and only one cause of a tailing loop! The* rod tip* moves through a convex or downward curving path. The interesting part is that there are more than a few ways to make a fly rod tip move through this path.
> 
> 1) Already mentioned above, you are at full acceleration form the very start of the cast. Your casting stroke must accelerate smoothly, progressing up to a maximum speed then stop. Load the rod then let it unload with a smooth stop.
> 2) Your hand phyiscally moves through a downward curving arc.
> ...


Shallowist is exactly correct. As you finish your cast I bet your thumb is sticking up (like you are hitch hiking). Try pointing your thumb down (more towards your target) and this should remedy your tailing loop.


----------

