# The Flawed Logic of "The One True Path"



## w_r_ranch

This is an interesting piece & well worth the time to read it, IMO. The conclusion is spot on.


_*Why My Religion is Right and Yours is Wrong*_

If you are a human being who lives on Earth, you have probably been exposed to other human beings who are not your exact clones.

If this sounds like you, then you have probably also been told once or twice that what you believe is wrong and (coincidentally) the person who told you this just so happens to have the correct set of beliefs that you should promptly integrate into your life.

The first time I heard this, I was excited at this easy replacement for years of personal discipline, study and introspection. Imagine my shock and amazement when I found that that the reasons they offered as to why they were right didn't quite stand up to the feeble light of early dawn.

To save you from suffering the same disappointment that I endured, I have listed some of these reasons that failed to provide me the "easy out" and forced me to do actual real work in finding my own personal spirituality.

*1) My Religion is Right, so Yours Must be Wrong!
*
Let's all start and agree with the premise that Divinity is Big. Quite probably beyond our ability to grasp its vastness. Bigger than the Earth, even!

Okay. Now look out your window and describe what you see. Did you just describe every feature of our planet, or just a small part that you have seen and are familiar with?

If you can't describe all of our little planet, how can you expect to describe all of Divinity?

Just as I can look outside and say "The Earth is a muddy swamp like my backyard is after the rain" you might say "The Earth is a dry hot arid place" because you've had a year of drought.

A Religion is basically like looking out your window and describing Divinity as you see it. It is impossible for you to describe it in its entirety as you haven't seen it in its entirety.

As a result each religion is expressing the portion of Divinity that the people who created it could see.

Just because you see one thing doesn't mean that somebody else can't see a different aspect of Divinity and be just as correct as you are. Just like I see mud outside my window and you see a cracked river bed. We're both right. It's just that we're looking at something so big that we each see a different part of it.

Just because you don't see the same thing I do doesn't mean that I'm wrong. We can both be right if we're seeing different things.

*2) My Religion is Old, so it must be Right!*

Due to the fact that people have believed something for a Real Long Timeâ„¢ it must be correct. This is quickly shot down with this:

From my quick search on Google, the oldest formal religion appears to be Hinduism. So if you're not a Hindu, you've already buzzed out.

The oldest informal religion was probably cavemen worshiping the sun and cowering from the angry storm gods. So, if you're not a Hindu and don't worship the sun and fear the storm gods, you've just buzzed out twice.

But even If you do happen to be a Hindu and worship the sun and fear the storm gods, it still doesn't mean you are right. Sorry. When it comes right down to it, this answer is really no more valid than any other when it comes to establishing a logical basis for your belief system.

*3) My Religion is New, so it must be Right!
*
To the best of my knowledge, the newest religion is the one that I just made up worshiping The Great God Lardicus and the Gentle Goddess Dietima.

If you're not worshiping one or both of them, buzz yourself out on this one, too.

*4) My Religion is New, but it is based on Ancient Knowledge, so it must be Right!*

I have to admit that is my favorite one, as it gives you the best of both worlds. This is a common one with many of the New Age religions. Many of the "New Old" religions are only about 50 years old, but claim ancestry going back hundreds or thousands of years.

Ancient wisdom combined with modern insight - what could be better?

Unfortunately, if being Old doesn't make it Right, and being New doesn't make it right, being Old and New doesn't make it right either.

*5) Lots of Other People Believe It Too, so it must be Right!
*
If everybody decided to go and jump off a bridge, would you do it too?

I'm sorry. My mother made me write that.

But I must grudgingly admit that she has a valid point. Lots of people were pretty darn sure the Earth was flat, yet even that power of belief was unable to squish our planet into a nice one-horizon pancake planet.

If you like to follow this line of reasoning, let's go see where it actually leads.

If your reason for belief is how many people agree with you, then the latest statistics show that you would be a member of one of the many (over 1,000) variations of Christianity, because Christianity represents about 33% of the world's population if you lump all the Christian variants together.1

If you are Christian, you're probably feeling pretty good about this right now.

Not so fast.

Looking at this the opposite way, fully 66% of the world's population agrees that Christianity is actually NOT the correct religion to follow. In fact, looking at it this way, NO religious choice is the correct one.

Simply put, this answer doesn't support a particular religious choice.

*6) Hardly Anybody Knows About It, so it must be Right!
*
Many "secret societies" have a veil of this kind of thinking around them.

While it may be possible that they possess knowledge (or think that they do) that others don't have, it does not automatically give their beliefs any more credibility than any of the other reasons we've covered so far.

Besides, if those beliefs were so obviously true, as you see they must be, why wouldn't more people believe it?

*7) This Holy Book Says it is True, so it must be Right!
*
Welcome to the land of Circular Reasoning!

Here's how it usually works: "My Religion is Right!" "Why?" "Because my Holy Book says it is!" "Well, why should I believe your Holy Book is Right?" "Because my Religion says it is!"

You can not logically say "Here's my first premise, here's my second premise. My first premise is true because my second premise says it is. My second premise is true because my first premise says it is. Therefore, both premises are true and support each other!"

Unfortunately, this doesn't work when exposed to any form of logic or rationality. In order to provide "proof" there must be validation from outside of the condition being tested.

*8) Divinity Said It Was True, so it must be Right!
*
This is almost identical to the last technique, but instead of a Holy Book saying it, some form of Divinity said it.

But who did they say it to? Was it someone you know is trustworthy? Are they alive?

Did you hear it? So it's at best second-hand knowledge (you personally know the person who Divinity spoke to), or most likely third-hand (usually more like 100-handed) knowledge.

Have you ever played the game of "Telephone"? People line up, and a message is whispered to the first person in the line, who whispers it to the second person, who whispers it to the third, and so on until the last person gets the message. They then say the message that they got and everybody laughs at how the simple message got completely mangled to the point of being unrecognizable.

Now, add to this process the following and shake, not stir: What century was it written in? What language was it in? How many translations has it gone through since then? How likely is it that there were words and phrases that did not translate literally, and the translator had to make an approximation across the languages? How many cultural differences go unstated that are not accounted for in translations? How many political or other agendas were able to influence the translations to sound more like the positions that they advocated?

As you can see, there are many issues that can take what could have been straight from Divinity and changed, confused or corrupted it on its way to the version you see today.

And we still haven't addressed the issues as to whether the person who originally said they heard it wrote it down correctly. Have you ever tried to write down what happened in a dream after you woke up? Have you ever had difficulty expressing a significant personal experience using nothing but words?

And then there is the most basic question of if they actually did receive a message from Divinity or not. Could they have just made it up? Were they trying to impress someone, become famous, influence people? Under the influence of a mind-altering substance? Suffered from a mental illness?

Do you know people who you trust who have told you important things that turned out not to be true?

Unless you personally experienced it, you have no unquestionable basis to believe it. And all of the other rules here also apply to why you should believe what someone else says is true.

*9) Someone I trust told me it is True, so it must be Right!
*
Why do they believe it is True? Is their reason covered by one or more of the above explanations? If so, there is no rational reason to accept it as True based on those reasons.

*10) Science agrees with me, so it must be Right!
*
Science is not always right. Periodically a new discovery is made that invalidates entire bodies of knowledge and creates new ones. Many scientific "facts" are discovered to be incorrect as new information is learned.

While this foundation provides the best rational platform for a system of beliefs, it does not "prove" it is right. There could always be a new scientific revelation that could end up proving it is wrong after all.

Additionally, there are lots of things that science admits that it still doesn't understand. Every so often, someone comes along and discovers a new aspect of how things work, and it can cause an explosion in new knowledge that builds upon this new foundation.

Nothing is absolute in science, despite the wishes of the scientists.

If you are a logic-based person, this is probably the only rationally valid reason to prefer one belief system over another. But remember that it is not absolute, and will not be a valid rationale for an emotionally-based person.

*11) It Just Feels True for Me, so it must be Right!
*
If you are an emotionally-based person, this is probably the only valid reason to prefer one belief system over another. In your gut or your heart, it just feels right.

But remember that you based your beliefs based on your PERSONAL feelings. If another person chooses a different belief system based on THEIR OWN PERSONAL feelings, you can not logically discount their choice but assert that your own is Real when you both selected your beliefs based on the exact same criteria.

Therefore, religious choices chosen in this way can only be a PERSONAL choice for you and you alone, because only you can experience the emotional foundation of your beliefs.

*12) I Had a Convincing Personal Experience, so it must be Right!*

This is similar to #11, but instead of simply having a feeling of rightness, you had an experience of some kind that you feel proved a particular religion's doctrine is correct. This might be a personal experience of the divine, a near-death experience or other personally moving experience that convinces you that a particular religion is "the one true religion".

There are a few problems with this reasoning.

The first problem with it is that many OTHER people around the world have also had similar experiences, but come come to DIFFERENT conclusions. It is rather unconvincing that there is a single "right path" if people all over the world have similar experiences but come to different conclusions.

The second problem is that "a moving spiritual experience" can be created in non-religious and non-spiritual circumstances. Similar mystical experiences have been repeatably created in laboratory experiments using electromagnetic fields on the brain and also with "magic mushrooms" containing the mind-altering chemical psilocybin.

The third problem is that people have spontaneously experienced profound senses of presence, beauty and awe without religious context from a variety of causes including natural settings, works of art, mathematical symmetry, astronomical vastness, the functioning of DNA and cell processes, etc.. That an experience of this type can spontaneously occur without any mystical context further reduces the odds that it is a reliable, universal proof of the accuracy of any religious conclusion.

Combining the inconsistent religious conclusions from those who have had these experiences, and the ability to recreate these experiences through both completely non-mystical laboratory settings or recreational drug use, we arrive at a very poor likelihood that this rationale holds any convincing weight.

*In Conclusion...*

I hope this helped to illustrate that there is no magic reason that anyone's belief system is right or wrong.* It is, at best, a personal decision as to what criteria you use to find your spiritual path through life.

Most importantly, there is no way that you can make a logical case that your belief system is "more right" than anybody else's.*

Additionally, without the ability to prove that any one experience is correct, it also opens up the possibility that NONE of them are correct, and a belief in no religion at all (Atheism) may be equally likely

It also leaves the possibility that none of them are COMPLETELY correct, that different religions have different aspects that may be correct, and no single religion has it all right.

There is also the theoretical possibility that ALL religions could be right, except for the fact that some religions state that ONLY their religion is correct, which would thereby make it impossible for all of them to be right according to their own doctrines.

Therefore,* please treat everyone with respect and courtesy when discussing your beliefs or theirs. If you try to find the core principles that guide most religions, you will find that they all share many similarities, and there is room in the world for all of them.*


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## Fish&Chips

3 But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.


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## WillieT

A lot of people choose a religion because "it fits them best." Doesn't mean it is right or correct, but it is something they are comfortable with. Sorry I don't agree with the article. There are many things that make up the true religion, and that identify the true religion, too many for me to sit right now and list them all. Total unity for one, no sects or divisions. All of like mind. The fruit they produce. Take in accurate knowledge, and bring their lives into harmony with God's will. Following Jesus as their example, teaching bible truths and trying to make disciples. The list goes on, but these are just a few of the things to look for in the true religion.

(Ephesians 4:3-6) earnestly endeavoring to observe the oneness of the spirit in the uniting bond of peace. 4â€¯One body there is, and one spirit, even as YOU were called in the one hope to which YOU were called; 5â€¯one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6â€¯one God and Father of all [persons], who is over all and through all and in all.

Ephesians 4:5 tells us that there is one faith, meaning one true religion.

Man can write all the articles he wants. When it comes to true worship the only thing that matters is what God says.


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## atcfisherman

If one looks at all the religions, they find a religious leader of some sort who started it. Comparing all those leaders, only one:

1. Was born of a virgin,
2. Claimed to be the Son of God,
3. Lived a perfect life,
4. Was crucified for the sins of the world,
5. Rose from the dead,
6. And is coming again. 

The other religious leaders:

1. Were born with a sinful nature,
2. Sinful men like the rest of us,
3. Never claimed to be the Son of God or the path of salvation,
4. Died in their sins,
5. Never roses from the grave

You see, Christianity is God way of reaching down to a fallen world to save them through His One and Only Son, Jesus Christ. Other religions are man made and are mans attempt to reach God. However we can never stand before God being sinful. Thus a perfect sacrifice had to be made, which was Jesus Christ, God's Son. 

No one can ever do enough good to erase even one single sin in their live, much less all the sins. Thus is why Christianity is different is because Jesus is the savior of the world. All our sins are paid for, but if one does not accept this replacement for their sins, then they at saying they don't need a savior, that they don't need someone to stand before God in their behalf. 

As for me, don't look at my life as the way a Christian should be. I'm just a terrible sinner saved by the Grace of God through His Son, Jesus Christ. Sure, I try to be Christ like and to let Him be Lord of my life. But I'm still a wretched man who needs God grace and salvation every day just to make it through. 





In Christ Alone I Place My Trust


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## finkikin

shaggydog said:


> *A lot of people choose a religion because "it fits them best." *Doesn't mean it is right or correct, but it is something they are comfortable with. Sorry I don't agree with the article. There are many things that make up the true religion, and that identify the true religion, too many for me to sit right now and list them all. Total unity for one, no sects or divisions. All of like mind. The fruit they produce. Take in accurate knowledge, and bring their lives into harmony with God's will. Following Jesus as their example, teaching bible truths and trying to make disciples. The list goes on, but these are just a few of the things to look for in the true religion.
> 
> (Ephesians 4:3-6) earnestly endeavoring to observe the oneness of the spirit in the uniting bond of peace. 4â€¯One body there is, and one spirit, even as YOU were called in the one hope to which YOU were called; *5â€¯one Lord, one faith, one baptism*; 6â€¯one God and Father of all [persons], who is over all and through all and in all.
> 
> Ephesians 4:5 tells us that there is one faith, *meaning one true religion. *
> 
> Man can write all the articles he wants. When it comes to true worship the only thing that matters is what God says.


Wrong, what about the tribes in the rural jungles? Are they damned before they got started? Or the American child that followed their parents...Catholic, Christian, Baptist faith?

I was baptized in a *Bible* church. Guess what, there are crosses in the church....oh my!

Your opinion of the "gospel"...after all it is all up to one mans opinion interpretation.

True religion is what every religion and written word teaches. "Your wrong, I'm right" mentality.


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## WillieT

finkikin said:


> Wrong, what about the tribes in the rural jungles? Are they damned before they got started? Or the American child that followed their parents...Catholic, Christian, Baptist faith?
> 
> I was baptized in a *Bible* church. Guess what, there are crosses in the church....oh my!
> 
> Your opinion of the "gospel"...after all it is all up to one mans opinion interpretation.
> 
> True religion is what every religion and written word teaches. "Your wrong, I'm right" mentality.


I am only delivering the message the scriptures point to. I don't doubt that your church has crosses. Many do. Is all that shows is that they are not following what is very plain in the scriptures. No idols.

As far as judging people that may not have had a chance to know the word of God. He can read hearts, and His decisions will be just, as well as they will be just with those that had a chance to learn bible truths, but rejected them. The judgement may not what they were hoping for, but it will be just. Each will believe what he wants, but he will be held accountable for his decisions.


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## FINNFOWLER

I have often failed to see the point of any one person pointing out what this religion or that religion is wrong in one way or another. I have friends that are all different religions. What I like about each one of them is that they go to church. We are all sinners and 100% of the people on this planet are sinners. No one can convince me that there is one right or wrong religion that you must be to get into heaven. I just hope the people I care about and myself choose a religion that is acceptable to God to get into heaven. I am not too sure I even think you need to have religion to get into haven. If you are a good person and have done good things for others throughout your life I would hope that "my God" would accept him or her into haven.


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## CTone

Here are a few truths.
1. Religion is all man-made.
2. God was created in manâ€™s image.
3. Religions create tribal divisions and bounties
4. Human beings origin of birth has more to do with their selection of which religion they will follow than anything other factor; i.e. a person born in India would most likely be a Hindu, person born in US more likely to be a Christian, etc.
5. Time also plays a part of which religion a human being follows. 10,000 years ago a person born in Egypt would likely follow the teachings of Ra, someone in Norway would hear and relate the stories of Thor, Greeks would follow Zeus, and Romans likewise would follow Apollo.
6. All religions claim to know the truth, but they cannot all be correct.
7.  Therefore they must all wrong.


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## WillieT

Those are not truths to me.

Do you believe in the bible? By what you posted I don't think you do. If God is created in mans image, to me that means you do not believe in a creator. I would really like to know why you feel that way.

I hope you will respond to my question.


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## CTone

Do I have belief in the bible?
The bible is a collection of stories written and comprised by person(s) after the fact. Most of the Old Testament contains stories and fables from before the time that the Israelites had a written language.
The New Testament gospels were also written after the facts, hearsay testimony of events, written down thirty to forty years after the death of Jesus.
The bible was assembled by man after many hundreds of years of deliberations, arguments and contesting of which books were left out and which got it. If men had to have a discussion about it how could it be really be Godâ€™s word.
Why do Christians believe the bible is the word of god, but the Quran is some lamented musing of an illiterate Bedouin? The book of Mormon is just a lie of monumental proportions.
If there is a god isnâ€™t it quite bold of humans to assume that they would know his mind, and go as far as bring death and destruction to those that do not believe as they do.


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## WillieT

CTone said:


> Do I have belief in the bible?
> The bible is a collection of stories written and comprised by person(s) after the fact. Most of the Old Testament contains stories and fables from before the time that the Israelites had a written language.
> The New Testament gospels were also written after the facts, hearsay testimony of events, written down thirty to forty years after the death of Jesus.
> The bible was assembled by man after many hundreds of years of deliberations, arguments and contesting of which books were left out and which got it. If men had to have a discussion about it how could it be really be Godâ€™s word.
> Why do Christians believe the bible is the word of god, but the Quran is some lamented musing of an illiterate Bedouin? The book of Mormon is just a lie of monumental proportions.
> If there is a god isnâ€™t it quite bold of humans to assume that they would know his mind, and go as far as bring death and destruction to those that do not believe as they do.


You don't have to do anything. Your response helps me to understand how you feel. It is obvious that you are not a believer, and that's OK. I just find it hard to believe that there is not a creator. All I have to do is look around. All this did not happen by accident.

There are too many prophecies in the bible that have already been fulfilled exactly as written for me to doubt that the Bible was inspired by God. We do not have the capability to fully understand exactly how God thinks, but He did have the bible written so that we could understand to the best of our ability. His son, Jesus Christ, is the perfect reflection of his father. By coming to know Jesus, we can also know God. It is His will that we do so.


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## w_r_ranch

LOL, shaggy!!! I posted this piece just to point out the hypocrisy of 2 individuals. What make you believe that your interpretation of any given scripture is more accurate than mine or anyone else's??? Tell us in detail, friend... What sets YOU above everyone else??? What makes you right & the rest of us wrong???

Personally I don't believe you, or anybody else for that matter, is in the position to be telling the rest of us that our beliefs are invalid. If you think that you are, you are extremely misguided.

Like the 'conclusion' says:

*



treat everyone with respect and courtesy when discussing your beliefs or theirs. If you try to find the core principles that guide most religions, you will find that they all share many similarities, and there is room in the world for all of them.

Click to expand...

*


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## WillieT

w_r_ranch said:


> LOL, shaggy!!! I posted this piece just to point out the hypocrisy of 2 individuals. What make you believe that your interpretation of any given scripture is more accurate than mine or anyone else's??? Tell us in detail, friend... What sets YOU above everyone else??? What makes you right & the rest of us wrong???
> 
> Personally I don't believe you, or anybody else for that matter, is in the position to be telling the rest of us that our beliefs are invalid. If you think that you are, you are extremely misguided.
> 
> Like the 'conclusion' says:


Think what you like. I will continue to preach what I know is the truth. It is not me that is misguided.


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## w_r_ranch

I'm not the one playing the part of the false prophet...

*Jeremiah 23:1-2*
â€œWoe to the shepherds who destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture!â€ declares the Lord. Therefore thus says the Lord, the God of Israel, concerning the shepherds who care for my people: â€œYou have scattered my flock and have driven them away, and you have not attended to them. Behold, I will attend to you for your evil deeds, declares the Lord."


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## Fish&Chips

w_r_ranch said:


> I'm not the one playing the part of the false prophet...
> 
> *Jeremiah 23:1-2*
> â€œWoe to the shepherds who destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture!â€ declares the Lord. Therefore thus says the Lord, the God of Israel, concerning the shepherds who care for my people: â€œYou have scattered my flock and have driven them away, and you have not attended to them. Behold, I will attend to you for your evil deeds, declares the Lord."


You're right about that ranch. All those filthy words that come out of your mouth tell us a lot. I've seen many of your posts that clearly show that you are not right with the Lord. The bible says that we will know them by their fruits.

Also:
1 John 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but _they went out_ that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.


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## WillieT

w_r_ranch said:


> I'm not the one playing the part of the false prophet...
> 
> *Jeremiah 23:1-2*
> â€œWoe to the shepherds who destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture!â€ declares the Lord. Therefore thus says the Lord, the God of Israel, concerning the shepherds who care for my people: â€œYou have scattered my flock and have driven them away, and you have not attended to them. Behold, I will attend to you for your evil deeds, declares the Lord."


Nor am I. The words I speak are true. Many will reject them, just like they rejected the words of Jesus when he walked the earth. It is something I am well aware of, but it will not keep me from speaking the truths of God's word.


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## Fish&Chips

w_r_ranch said:


> treat everyone with respect and courtesy when discussing your beliefs or theirs. If you try to find the core principles that guide most religions, you will find that they all share many similarities, and there is room in the world for all of them.


Yes there is plenty of room in this world for all religions. But there is only room for one in God's kingdom, for he is a jealous God.


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## w_r_ranch

shaggydog said:


> Nor am I. The words I speak are true.


So say all false prophets...



Fish&Chips said:


> Yes there is plenty of room in this world for all religions. But there is only room for one in God's kingdom, for he is a jealous God.


Maybe your god, but not my God.

*I rest my case on both of you. It is unfortunate that neither of you want to address the questions put to you, which in itself says a lot... But hey, by all means, continue to drive people away, that IS what you seem to do best.*


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## WillieT

w_r_ranch said:


> I rest my case on both of you. It is unfortunate that neither of you want to address the questions put to you, which in itself says a lot...


I think I have always done my best to answer every question that has been asked of me except personal questions. If there is something from the scriptures that I have not answered please let me know. I will do my best to answer them directly from the scriptures. I will not respond to rants.


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## w_r_ranch

See #12.


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## CTone

thanks w_r_ranch for making a simple point.
Shaggy and Chips seem to always take the position of judge and jury, and escape inquiry by using the phrase(s) "that is god's judgement, not mine". My wish is that they open their "MINDS" to reason, humanism and use critical thinking before casting the first stone.


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## w_r_ranch

Gandhi supposedly once said â€œI like your Christ, I do not like your Christians"...

I starting to believe he may have personally met others like these two.


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## WillieT

w_r_ranch said:


> LOL, shaggy!!! I posted this piece just to point out the hypocrisy of 2 individuals. What make you believe that your in. When terpretation of any given scripture is more accurate than mine or anyone else's??? Tell us in detail, friend... What sets YOU above everyone else??? What makes you right & the rest of us wrong???
> 
> Personally I don't believe you, or anybody else for that matter, is in the position to be telling the rest of us that our beliefs are invalid. If you think that you are, you are extremely misguided.
> 
> Like the 'conclusion' says:


I don't feel like I am set above anyone. I try to reference scriptures to support why I believe what I believe. I have studied the bible in depth since 1992. When I say in depth I mean several times a week every week unless I am on vacation or sick. That does not put me above anybody, but it does give me excellent insight into the scriptures.

You can choose to believe whatever you want to. I believe I have the truth and prove it to myself everyday when I read the bible. My motives are not only for myself, but for the goodwill of others. You can believe that or not, I know the truth of my motives. If you think it is because I like to come on here and debate with those that not only have a very limited knowledge of the bible or even question the existence of God, you are sadly mistaken.

I would like for everyone to know the truths of the bible and the blessings that God pours out on us every day. The blessing that He has in store for us are thing we cannot even imagine. Rev 21: 3-5


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## WillieT

w_r please let me ask you a question. I do believe you were in the military so maybe you can relate to this. If concerns who would be the most qualified for a mission, lets say a sniper mission, and you too are involved. You have the choice between two men. 

The first is strictly by the book, knows the manuals backward and forward. Can break down his weapon and clean it then put it back together blindfolded. He spends hours on the shooting range every week, several times a week. He is a crack shot, never misses.

The other is a good man. Studies his manual, but doesn't really care about knowing all the details. Goes to the range for a little while a couple of times a month. He is a relatively good shot, but will jerk one every once in a while. 

This mission involves you, and your life is dependent on the man you choose for this mission. Which man will you choose?


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## w_r_ranch

shaggydog said:


> I don't feel like I am set above anyone. I try to reference scriptures to support why I believe what I believe. I have studied the bible in depth since 1992.


I started in 1954, so what? That doesn't make me right & you wrong. You're not any better than I am at interpreting the Bible & I would never tell others what to believe... they have their beliefs, just as we have ours.

I am not in the business of saving their souls & neither are you or F&C. That is a fact & if you either of you believe otherwise you are 'false prophets' per your own stated beliefs.

Why don't you both hit the reset button & try *discussing* the scriptures for a change instead of trying to browbeat others into accepting your interpretation??? I believe that was the original intended purpose of this forum...


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## w_r_ranch

shaggydog said:


> w_r please let me ask you a question. I do believe you were in the military so maybe you can relate to this. If concerns who would be the most qualified for a mission, lets say a sniper mission, and you too are involved. You have the choice between two men.


Wrong field of expertise. I was not a sniper, nor did I ever command any.

Let try to stay on subject, this is not about me nor has it ever been.


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## WillieT

w_r_ranch said:


> I started in 1954, so what? That doesn't make me right & you wrong. You're not any better than I am at interpreting the Bible & I would never tell others what to believe... they have their beliefs, just as we have ours.
> 
> I am not in the business of saving their souls & neither are you or F&C. That is a fact & if you either of you believe otherwise you are 'false prophets' per your own stated beliefs.
> 
> Why don't you both hit the reset button & try *discussing* the scriptures for a change instead of trying to browbeat others into accepting your interpretation??? I believe that was the original intended purpose of this forum...


I have pretty much let it be know why I do what I do. Accept it or not, it is up to you. You started what in 1954? In depth study of the bible, weekly, several hours a week? That's great if you do, but for some reason I don't think so. I have seen some of your comments in different forums.

Sorry if you feel like I am browbeating . If you don't like what I say, put me on ignore.


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## WillieT

w_r_ranch said:


> Wrong field of expertise. I was not a sniper, nor did I ever command any.
> 
> Let try to stay on subject, this is not about me nor has it ever been.


Just an illustration. I am not surprised that you don't get it, or maybe I should say avoid it. And where you are concerned, it is always about you, and only you. Have seen it too many times in other forums.


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## WillieT

Sorry I got personal. You can get slapped so many time before you want to slap back. It is a fault of mine.


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## w_r_ranch

shaggydog said:


> Sorry I got personal. You can get slapped so many time before you want to slap back. It is a fault of mine.


I forgive you shaggy, Catholics do that (besides, I have very thick skin).

Having said that, how's if feel to be beat at your own game???







Better people than you have tried & failed, the less 'gifted' ones more that once. I also have a depth of experience dealing with those that thought they they were smarter than me... they usually lost too. :slimer:

As far as you believing that I started Bible studies in 1954, I attended a Parochial school, just so you have a basis for understanding.

Now, if you want to address what I specifically did during my military career, I suggest you do a search, since your feeble mind can't recall attacking me in that post (you do it so often, LOL!!!). I'll certainly be glad to return that favor, if you would be so kind as to post it in the jungle (the link to it was posted in the last 24 hrs.), as I will not address it here.

Personally, I would suggest that you quit while you can, but you're a big boy... you decide.


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## WillieT

w_r_ranch said:


> I forgive you shaggy, Catholics do that (besides, I have very thick skin).
> 
> Having said that, how's if feel to be beat at your own game???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Better people than you have tried & failed, the less 'gifted' ones more that once. I also have a depth of experience dealing with those that thought they they were smarter than me... they usually lost too. :slimer:
> 
> As far as you believing that I started Bible studies in 1954, I attended a Parochial school, just so you have a basis for understanding.
> 
> Now, if you want to address what I specifically did during my military career, I suggest you do a search, since your feeble mind can't recall attacking me in that post (you do it so often, LOL!!!). I'll certainly be glad to return that favor, if you would be so kind as to post it in the jungle (the link to it was posted in the last 24 hrs.), as I will not address it here.
> 
> Personally, I would suggest that you quit while you can, but you're a big boy... you decide.


It is certainly not about winning or losing. It is about the the truths of God's word. Quit, what does that mean. It is not in my vocabulary. I do a lot of things I am sorry for, preaching the word of God is not one of them. I do apologize for taking and making things personal. I do think I know you better now and the thing that seem to be important to you. I think our priorities are much different. Really your military career is not important to me, and my feeble mind could probably not comprehend it anyway. I just thought if I used a military illustration that you might pick up on it.


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## Fish&Chips

Relax Gents. Christians are not any better or at a higher level than anybody. The simple fact is that we believe the bible and you don't. Ever heard the phrase "don't shoot the messenger?" I know, there are some messengers that only bring you feel-good messages, but I'm not one of those. 

Thanks for your opinions and suggestions ranch, but I'll continue to please & obey God instead of man.


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## Fish&Chips

w_r_ranch said:


> I forgive you shaggy, Catholics do that (besides, I have very thick skin).
> 
> Having said that, how's if feel to be beat at your own game???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Better people than you have tried & failed, the less 'gifted' ones more that once. I also have a depth of experience dealing with those that thought they they were smarter than me... they usually lost too. :slimer:


Wow ranch. So you see this forum as a place to play games? I'm sorry to tell you that this is no laughing matter my friend. We are talking about your soul and eternity. Please stop playing games.


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## w_r_ranch

Fish&Chips said:


> Relax Gents. Christians are not any better or at a higher level than anybody. The simple fact is that we believe the bible and you don't.


Maybe you should do more praying & less talking... You do not stand in judgement of the rest of us, nor our beliefs. Just say'in.


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## w_r_ranch

Fish&Chips said:


> Wow ranch. So you see this forum as a place to play games? I'm sorry to tell you that this is no laughing matter my friend. We are talking about your soul and eternity. Please stop playing games.


I see this forum as a place to read & discuss the scriptures with others, as well as to learn the various aspects of their faiths (which may or may not be different that mine).

I do *NOT* come here to hear you constantly belittle my beliefs or the beliefs of others because we don't buy into your 'brand'.

How about YOU worry about YOUR soul/eternity & the rest of us will worry about ours...


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## TrueblueTexican

*Hmmm*



CTone said:


> Here are a few truths.
> 1. Religion is all man-made.
> 2. God was created in manâ€™s image.
> 3. Religions create tribal divisions and bounties
> 4. Human beings origin of birth has more to do with their selection of which religion they will follow than anything other factor; i.e. a person born in India would most likely be a Hindu, person born in US more likely to be a Christian, etc.
> 5. Time also plays a part of which religion a human being follows. 10,000 years ago a person born in Egypt would likely follow the teachings of Ra, someone in Norway would hear and relate the stories of Thor, Greeks would follow Zeus, and Romans likewise would follow Apollo.
> 6. All religions claim to know the truth, but they cannot all be correct.
> 7.  Therefore they must all wrong.


To non-Christians one of the most offensive claims of Christianity is that it provides the only path to heaven. If you are a non-Christian it is certainly understandable why this would offend or upset you, but I would hope you can at least appreciate and respect why it is important for Christians not to skirt such an important tenet of Christianity. If the Bible truly is the Word of God, wouldn't you agree that it would be incredibly selfish of Christians to fail to mention such a far-reaching, eternally important component of the Bible?

Comparing World Religions

Shall we determine how the major religions of the world differ from each other, and discern whether these differences are bridgeable? Christianity is based on the Triune God of the Bible - the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and particularly the life of the Son, Jesus Christ.

All other religions are based on the writings of men and not the life of any particular individual. Judaism, the sister religion to Christianity, is based on the Old Testament of the Bible, rejecting the entire New Testament and holding that the Messiah has not yet come. Islam is based on the writings of Muhammad, where they worship a single, impersonal god. Mormonism is based on the writings of Joseph Smith, where they deny the eternal divinity of Jesus, believe in many gods, and believe men can attain godhood (as their Jesus and Father did) and rule over their own planet. The Eastern religions, including Hinduism and Buddhism, and Western new-age religions such as Christian Science essentially believe everything is god (Pantheism - may the force be with you). These religions also teach reincarnation until the spirit reaches a level of "enlightenment" and oneness with god or the gods. Christianity teaches one death and one judgment (Hebrews 9:27).

Christianity is also the only religion that recognizes the hopeless gap between man and a Holy and Righteous God, teaching that salvation can only be obtained through God's grace.( not by works or levels)

All other religions teach that salvation can be achieved through human effort.

I think at this point we might agree that that the major world religions are quite different, with many conflicting and contradictory views. To hold that all religions are equally true is simply not a rational belief.

Humankind strives to put Creation into a box it can understand, the Enmity exhibited toward some Christians may be well founded, but at the end of our days we will stand before THE God of Creation and be judged as will all humanity at that time we will all see how right or wrong we are --

My Commission, what I believe in, is to tell others (when God makes that appointment) about Jesus - at that point the hook is in, the rest is up to God, take it or leave it - all else is just thumping someone over the head with a book and out of respect for Gods inspired writings, I really don't want to damage the bindings.


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## atcfisherman

Fantastic reply Texician. 


In Christ Alone I Place My Trust


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## jimk

atcfisherman said:


> Fantastic reply Texician.


Amen!


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## Fish&Chips

atcfisherman said:


> Fantastic reply Texician.
> 
> In Christ Alone I Place My Trust


x3


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## glenbo

Well put, Texican, and true through and through.


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## jimk

What Peter said to *Gentiles* in Rome...

1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,To Godâ€™s *elect*, exiles scattered throughout the provinces of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia, 2 who have been *chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father*,* through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood:*
1Peter 1: 14 As obedient children,* do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance.* 15 But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; 16 for it is written: â€œ*Be holy, because I am holy.â€*
1Peter2:9 But you are *a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, Godâ€™s special possession,**that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. 10 Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.

*As a Christian we are to strive to be "holy." That is, to be different and separate by our love and obedience to God and then to one another...aware of our sinful nature...and thankful for His Grace. As a "Royal Priesthood," our sacrifice is ourselves.


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## Tortuga

This is almost tragic to me. Maybe we ought to change the title of the forum from "Food for the Soul" to..".My Religion is Right and Your's is Wrong" There are hundreds if not thousands of religions in the world..Christianity constitutes about a third of them.. Are the vast majority of the people in the world WRONG ??

A few of you have done a bang up job of shredding the Catholics..and now ripping into the Jehovas Witnesses..Think you have pretty well decimated the Mormons... Who is next ???...The Jews...The Hindus ?? The Islamists ?? (I might help you on that one. LOL)

Pitiful.....IMHO...:headknock


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## Fish&Chips

Tortuga said:


> This is almost tragic to me. Maybe we ought to change the title of the forum from "Food for the Soul" to..".My Religion is Right and Your's is Wrong" There are hundreds if not thousands of religions in the world..Christianity constitutes about a third of them.. Are the vast majority of the people in the world WRONG ??


Very good question. And the bible has the answer. Jesus' words:
*Matthew 7:*
13 â€œEnter by the narrow gate; for wide _is_ the gate and broad _is_ the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because[a] narrow _is_ the gate and difficult _is_ the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.



Tortuga said:


> A few of you have done a bang up job of shredding the Catholics..and now ripping into the Jehovas Witnesses..Think you have pretty well decimated the Mormons... Who is next ???...The Jews...The Hindus ?? The Islamists ?? (I might help you on that one. LOL)
> 
> Pitiful.....IMHO...:headknock


What's even more sad is that many have heard the truth about Jesus Christ but yet continue to reject Him. Now that is something that should concern us more.


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## w_r_ranch

Fish&Chips said:


> What's even more sad is that many have heard the truth about Jesus Christ but yet continue to reject Him. Now that is something that should concern us more.


Hypocrisy at it's finest... You still don't have a clue. :headknock


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## Fish&Chips

Amazing how a few individuals always seem to show up when there is a heated discussion on FFTS. They don't post anything of substance or contribute anything positive but at just the right time, they appear and take a few jabs/stir the pot. They must feel like it's their job to tell Christians how to behave. Sort of like a junior game warden, but I guess you could call them the Christian police. 

I'm sure there are a lot of other forums that get way more out of hand than this one. 

Have a blessed day.


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## T_rout

w_r_ranch said:


> I started in 1954, so what? That doesn't make me right & you wrong. You're not any better than I am at interpreting the Bible & I would never tell others what to believe... they have their beliefs, just as we have ours.
> 
> I am not in the business of saving their souls & neither are you or F&C. That is a fact & if you either of you believe otherwise you are 'false prophets' per your own stated beliefs.
> 
> Why don't you both hit the reset button & try *discussing* the scriptures for a change instead of trying to browbeat others into accepting your interpretation??? I believe that was the original intended purpose of this forum...


I completely agree!! Here's a thought, what if one day you two have a head on collision in your cars and both end up standing in line at the pearly gates side by side!!


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## Tortuga

Fish&Chips said:


> Amazing how a few individuals always seem to show up when there is a heated discussion on FFTS. They don't post anything of substance or contribute anything positive but at just the right time, they appear and take a few jabs/stir the pot. They must feel like it's their job to tell Christians how to behave. Sort of like a junior game warden, but I guess you could call them the Christian police. .


I assume you are referring to Ranch and me as the 'junior game wardens'.. That may be, but on the other hand, I think both of us just get a little rankled when we see lots of folks being abused simply because of their religious beliefs.. Something about "do unto others"...

In my case..I yield... Getting way to heavy for me with the few years I got left.. Guess I can just put down my Bible and pick up my 'Saltwater Sportsman'.... lot lighter reading anyhow...

Per your request...I'm history down here... Dunno about Ranch though.. He's a pretty tough young geezer....:walkingsm


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## Fish&Chips

Tortuga said:


> I assume you are referring to Ranch and me as the 'junior game wardens'.. That may be, but on the other hand, I think both of us just get a little rankled when we see lots of folks being abused simply because of their religious beliefs.. Something about "do unto others"...
> 
> In my case..I yield... Getting way to heavy for me with the few years I got left.. Guess I can just put down my Bible and pick up my 'Saltwater Sportsman'.... lot lighter reading anyhow...
> 
> Per your request...I'm history down here... Dunno about Ranch though.. He's a pretty tough young geezer....:walkingsm


I never said you're not welcome here, but post something good sometime.


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## w_r_ranch

We may do that when you learn to practice what you preach. Just say'in.


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## TrueblueTexican

*So what religion do you profess?*



Tortuga said:


> This is almost tragic to me. Maybe we ought to change the title of the forum from "Food for the Soul" to..".My Religion is Right and Your's is Wrong" There are hundreds if not thousands of religions in the world..Christianity constitutes about a third of them.. Are the vast majority of the people in the world WRONG ??
> 
> A few of you have done a bang up job of shredding the Catholics..and now ripping into the Jehovas Witnesses..Think you have pretty well decimated the Mormons... Who is next ???...The Jews...The Hindus ?? The Islamists ?? (I might help you on that one. LOL)
> 
> Pitiful.....IMHO...:headknock


I think it is equally tragic that we do not step back and and take a HARD look at Christianity in the beginning. Christ walked the streets of Palestine, he is a historical recorded figure (read the Roman Diaspora) - or Egyptian ancient recordedhistory. So Jeshua is indeed a real historical fact unless you discount written history as hogwash.

Jesus was accused in a Roman Court by Jewish authorities of sedition, and crucified on a Roman made stake.

Jesus had a simple message, he came from God the Creator his Father, born as a flesh and blood man through the union of the Holy Spirit and Mary his mother. A belief in him would save your eternal soul from destruction, then contained in his Sermon on the Mount, and Matthews account in chapters 5,6,7 are the finer points all Christians should strive for. He had 12 followers who wrote historical accounts of his life and his teachings, not only the 12 but historical accounts have been found in dead sea scrolls confirming the compilation of what is contained in the Good News For Man.

The Roman Church (church universal) took ONE passage out of Matthew's gospel VS. 16:18 and took it to mean they had power given them, to usurp and replace Jesus act on the Cross, and by learned study over the next two centuries took many licenses that just are not contained in the word of God to men.

Pretty much it boils down to this Romans 10:13, "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."

Jesus CHURCH was FOUNDED on HIS TEACHINGS - not the apostles, nor a creed, nor the misguided and deceived of Lucifer chartered by the Universal Church, nor any other CHURCH OF MEN past or PRESENT.

Whats important - belief in Jeshua Gods Son, sent as a BRIDGE between man and a HOLY God, his life essence sacrificed as PAYMENT for for the evil we do. Otherwise we would NEVER be able to stand before our Creator -

Not a dang thing we really deserve than DEATH - yet Christ conquered that for all time for those who would humble themselves and quit trying to imitate God.

A follower of Christ shall I be - not a follower of 66 percent of the worlds population, nor likely the 1/2 of the rest who "claim" a kinship with God.

Jesus save us from our unbelief !!!!


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