# Reverse Talk



## madf1man (Jan 28, 2005)

What do others think about using reverse and electric racing. Seemed to be a problem this past Sat. I know I would sit there waiting for a corner marshall when I could have easily backed up while some others would back up frequently. Some got caught but mostly not!


----------



## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

Reverse might be ok in Slash, but in 1/8 is a no go......race director is supposed to dock you a lap if you use reverse. At sanctioned races, they make you prove that it is programmed out of your ESC.


----------



## killerkustoms (Nov 6, 2008)

The answer is simple to me if everyone has reverse then use it but if theres a vehicle on the track not equipped with reverse and running with reverse cars then NO backing up to keep it fare. But if your in a race with vehicles that can backup and you modded your car so its forward only then tuff, wait for a marshal.


----------



## rex cars (Jul 8, 2007)

In my opinion reverse should be locked out and/or penalty given for using reverse during a race.


----------



## madf1man (Jan 28, 2005)

Not possible for the race director to see everyone using reverse. With development and popularity of electric racing going the way it is I wonder if it is being discussed higher up


----------



## jboehm (May 2, 2009)

killerkustoms said:


> The answer is simple to me if everyone has reverse then use it but if theres a vehicle on the track not equipped with reverse and running with reverse cars then NO backing up to keep it fare. But if your in a race with vehicles that can backup and you modded your car so its forward only then tuff, wait for a marshal.


I feel the same way. I had to use my reverse in slash. I think running nitro and electrics is going to become an even bigger issue in the near future. Some decisions will have to be made.


----------



## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

It's going to be a while before I seperate the 1/8 classes between nitro and electric......no reverse for now. I agree that eventually it may get to the point where things need to be changed, but not this season. So for now, jut bear with the corner-marshalling issue.....it has always sucked having to wait for a corner marshall.

and yes, we're going to allow reverse in CORR classes


----------



## jboehm (May 2, 2009)

Courtney Vaughan said:


> It's going to be a while before I seperate the 1/8 classes between nitro and electric......no reverse for now. I agree that eventually it may get to the point where things need to be changed, but not this season. So for now, jut bear with the corner-marshalling issue.....it has always sucked having to wait for a corner marshall.
> 
> and yes, we're going to allow reverse in CORR classes


What about pit stops for the electric guys?


----------



## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

In 15+ minute mains, the electric guys are required to pull into the pits for something like 3 seconds, once every 10 minutes. I will mention that, as well as the reverse rules again at the drivers meeting, but it will ultimately be up to the race director to to enforce it. So if you feel like it's super important to you, I suggest you mention it to him before the mains get going.


----------



## Big Phil (Apr 27, 2007)

All brushless systems have rev i think..In the (old days) the good brushed systems did not. Maybe it's time to change the rules for electric racing. I vote yes but it's not up to me.


----------



## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

I am watching the electric situation very close for next season and we will be discussing it MUCH more towards the end of the year. If the electric 1/8's are consistently showing 8-10 per race going into the Fall and Winter portions of the season, we'll most likely split them them from the nitro. There are a TON of people with electric 1/8 stuff around here, but come race day there's only 4-5 that consistely show up.


----------



## Gary (May 21, 2004)

One of the worst parts of RC car racing is corner marshalling especially with what yall run now days. Big giant overpowered land bombs with the mentality of anything less than full throttle, launching into the grandstands messing up on the entry to a giant triple and taking out three rows of spectators is bad. Allowing them reverse just to back into traffic, no no!

Why reverse has never been allowed in the expert classes especially in 10th scale electric is beyond me. In my 17 years of racing I cant count how many races I have lost postitions because of poor corner marshalling. Or how many times I accidently stepped on someone elses car, or had heart attacts doing my best to marshall!

Anybody have a defribulator? :help:


----------



## SwayOveride (Aug 12, 2004)

I am confused as to why electric 1/8th scale has to pull into the pits for 3 secs when racing with 1/8th gas in 15min+ mains?


----------



## rex cars (Jul 8, 2007)

SwayOveride said:


> I am confused as to why electric 1/8th scale has to pull into the pits for 3 secs when racing with 1/8th gas in 15min+ mains?


A nitro can't go 15+ min w/o fueling


----------



## killerkustoms (Nov 6, 2008)

SwayOveride said:


> I am confused as to why electric 1/8th scale has to pull into the pits for 3 secs when racing with 1/8th gas in 15min+ mains?


Since both cars are in the same race and to keep things even electrics just have to pull into pit lane and drive off as nitro vehicles can only run 5-7 mins max before running out.


----------



## Big Phil (Apr 27, 2007)

killerkustoms said:


> Since both cars are in the same race and to keep things even electrics just have to pull into pit lane and drive off as nitro vehicles can only run 5-7 mins max before running out.


 Most go about 10 min on a tank now. From what i hear.


----------



## Gary (May 21, 2004)

killerkustoms said:


> Since both cars are in the same race and to keep things even electrics just have to pull into pit lane and drive off as nitro vehicles can only run 5-7 mins max before running out.


Well since electric has more power and longer run time, the rules should be changed. Let nitro have bigger tanks and make the class unlimited. It's a MOD class right?


----------



## SwayOveride (Aug 12, 2004)

I fully understand nitro and how long they run etc... So you are penalizing people because of technology and they don't have others to race with? What are the lap times of both electric and gas are they drastically different? Are the racers that race electric 1/8th the top guys?


----------



## madf1man (Jan 28, 2005)

Did not mean to get all this started. We need to relize that CV is aware of all this but you don't just change rules from one race to another. There may be patches used in the mean time that won't suit everyones idea of whats right. All I was askin bout was reverse anyways, whats all this other stuff doing in my thread!!!


----------



## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

It's not a penalty, it's just a fiarness thing. It's a virgining class and everyone has to flexible for now. And it's up to the guys who run the electrics to bring more people into the class so they can have a seperate class. No-one wants to run/see a race with 3-5 cars in it, which is what the 1/8 electrics average at the moment. The tracks don't want it, and we want the tracks to want us.

As Trey said, I can't just go changing the rules at every race. I'm really not interested in proposing a new set of rules until the manufactures really start supporting and settling on some electric standards. The batteries, motors, ESC's, electronics, chassis, etc seem to come out with something new every month or so at the moment. Some of this stuff has to iron itself out. 

For now, the classes stay combined, and the rules stand........

Electrics have to make a pit, and there is no reverse. We have been running reverse in the CORR classes since the beginning, and it helps alleviate corner marshalling issues, so it will be allowed.


----------



## rex cars (Jul 8, 2007)

SwayOveride said:


> I fully understand nitro and how long they run etc... So you are penalizing people because of technology and they don't have others to race with? What are the lap times of both electric and gas are they drastically different? Are the racers that race electric 1/8th the top guys?


It isn't penalizing since the lap times are fairly similar. It is leveling the playing field.
maybe the nitro cars should drive in reverse into the pits?
See what you started Trey?


----------



## wily (Oct 14, 2005)

+1 CV


----------



## madf1man (Jan 28, 2005)

rex cars said:


> It isn't penalizing since the lap times are fairly similar. It is leveling the playing field.
> maybe the nitro cars should drive in reverse into the pits?
> See what you started Trey?


I know, and I can't handle the pressure! I'm about to go back to racing Sizzlers in my room with GI Joe.


----------



## rex cars (Jul 8, 2007)

madf1man said:


> I know, and I can't handle the pressure! I'm about to go back to racing Sizzlers in my room with GI Joe.


No reverse, ok?


----------



## madf1man (Jan 28, 2005)

Dang it!


----------



## SwayOveride (Aug 12, 2004)

rex cars said:


> It isn't penalizing since the lap times are fairly similar. It is leveling the playing field.
> maybe the nitro cars should drive in reverse into the pits?
> See what you started Trey?


So what you are saying is that the electric guys are faster so you have to make them pit to waste 3 seconds so it will be fair to the nitro guys?


----------



## PD2 (Jul 1, 2005)

Gary said:


> One of the worst parts of RC car racing is corner marshalling especially with what yall run now days. Big giant overpowered land bombs with the mentality of anything less than full throttle, launching into the grandstands messing up on the entry to a giant triple and taking out three rows of spectators is bad. Allowing them reverse just to back into traffic, no no!
> 
> Why reverse has never been allowed in the expert classes especially in 10th scale electric is beyond me. In my 17 years of racing I cant count how many races I have lost postitions because of poor corner marshalling. Or how many times I accidently stepped on someone elses car, or had heart attacts doing my best to marshall!
> 
> Anybody have a defribulator? :help:


Totally off subject....sorry Trey....but, Biffster, let's remember why the corner marshall is there. Half the time it is to get you back on the track because someone nerfed you into the pipe, wall or off the track. The other half of the time is to get you back on the track because WE did something wrong in our driving. Granted, corner marshalls should be diligent regardless of the situation, but if they pay attention with these two halves in mind, then they know when it's heart attack time and they know when it's time to wait until the driver let's off the gas so they can properly corner marshall the car. :wink:

Back on topic.......

PD2


----------



## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

SwayOveride said:


> So what you are saying is that the electric guys are faster so you have to make them pit to waste 3 seconds so it will be fair to the nitro guys?


ok, now you're just trolling dude..................


----------



## GoFaster (May 4, 2005)

Here's the deal with reverse. If I am leading and I wreck, and you are about to pass me, I am going to reverse that mofo and wreck you too. I've done it too many times to count. It isn't fair or cool, but that how it works. Oops, let out my secret. 

Also you don't want some newb reversing int eh straight away and ruining someone else's car. These things are FAST and a bunch of stuff can get torn up.


----------



## SwayOveride (Aug 12, 2004)

Courtney Vaughan said:


> ok, now you're just trolling dude..................


Just trying to get a clear answer as to the pitting situation with electric 1/8th scale. The only answer seems to be that there has to be an even playing field and that answer doesn't cut it because nobody has explained why...

Troll no, I just asked a question and when you get an answer of "evening the playing field" the first thing that comes to mind is one is faster than the other.


----------



## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

SwayOveride said:


> So what you are saying is that the electric guys are faster so you have to make them pit to waste 3 seconds so it will be fair to the nitro guys?


Answer: No, the electric guys are not faster when it comes down to lap times.

Look at it like this: there are rules as to how large a fuel tank for an 1/8 nitro can be, thus limiting it's run time. In essence, your battery is your fuel tank. At this time, no-one has settled on how large of a capacity a battery can be. So, running a battery that will run for say, 20 minutes, is like a nitro guy running some kind of second fuel tank, or some super large capacity tank. So, to run a battery (electric "fuel tank") that can run longer than the typical nitro, would be cheating. Therefore, we have to assume that the average nitro can push 10 minutes of run time, and if you want to have an equivalent electric "fuel tank", we have to limit the time you can stay out without pitting, or limit your battery capacity. And I don't think anyone wants to buy special lower capacity batteries just to race with......thus, we have a pit stop rule.

Didn't mean to call you a troll LOL.......does that explain it enough?

again, it comes down to the fact that this is a new technology and no-one has come up with established rules. ROAR has tried it, but they're constantly amending them and people are constantly being accused of cheating because they purchased a new technology that the rules don't cover and it gives them an advantage.

SOOOOO, like I said, it's not the right time to try to lay down a solid set of rules for the 1/8 electrics.


----------



## GoFaster (May 4, 2005)

Electric has slower lap times now because none of the fast guys run them.


----------



## kstoracing (Oct 30, 2008)

lol, I didnt want to be the guy to say that but, you may have something there. Not that i am fast or anything either.


----------



## Big Phil (Apr 27, 2007)

GoFaster said:


> Electric has slower lap times now because none of the fast guys run them.


 Thats not 100% true..And a fast guy will turn faster laps with an elec. They can keep saying it's not as fast but some of us know better.


----------



## GoFaster (May 4, 2005)

The electric cars I've driven were way faster and easier to drive than nitro. Nitro cars dont' flip over backwards when you give them full throttle. lol


----------



## darrenwilliams (Apr 21, 2008)

All you electric guys, put your money where your mouth is Friday Night @ The River. A great venue to argue this debate. 20 minute main, run what you brung and nobody is forcing you to do a pit stop.:work:


----------



## kstoracing (Oct 30, 2008)

Everyone knows that the electircs have the potential of being faster. Instant torque compaired to spooling up. I don't know if the car is actually faster but, they 100% quicker. Electric cars are like light switches on and off. 

If you watch TLC it's was already proven that a ful size elctric car is quicker but not necessarily faster than a traditional car.


----------



## kstoracing (Oct 30, 2008)

Then again you wont be too fast if you're on your lid also, or in a 20 min main you battery goes out 15 min in and you stop dead with no warning..lol.


----------



## Big Phil (Apr 27, 2007)

kstoracing said:


> Then again you wont be too fast if you're on your lid also, or in a 20 min main you battery goes out 15 min in and you stop dead with no warning..lol.


 I can go 20 to 25..:biggrin:


----------



## kstoracing (Oct 30, 2008)

lets make it a 30 min main, and you're limited to one battery...lol.


----------



## Big Phil (Apr 27, 2007)

kstoracing said:


> lets make it a 30 min main, and you're limited to one battery...lol.


 DOH!!!!:headknock


----------



## SwayOveride (Aug 12, 2004)

Phil, just put dual batteries in it....


----------



## madf1man (Jan 28, 2005)

I'm working on a dual 5250 batt set up now that I have calculated to run close to 40 minutes. I'm running heavier springs on the left and wider offset wheels on the right and the balance is smokin. I've drilled the body holes off center to the left so the body will ride to the right side to help mask the wheel offsets. Looks batchin right now but I'm worried about what it looks like tomorrow morning when I'm thinkin straight again. Almost forgot to ask but will this be a legal truggy to run this weekend or will it have to be a river track ride only?


----------



## rex cars (Jul 8, 2007)

madf1man said:


> I'm working on a dual 5250 batt set up now that I have calculated to run close to 40 minutes. I'm running heavier springs on the left and wider offset wheels on the right and the balance is smokin. I've drilled the body holes off center to the left so the body will ride to the right side to help mask the wheel offsets. Looks batchin right now but I'm worried about what it looks like tomorrow morning when I'm thinkin straight again. Almost forgot to ask but will this be a legal truggy to run this weekend or will it have to be a river track ride only?


It should be legal if you run foams. You will also have to make TWO 45second pit stops for each 12 minutes of race time. Assuming you are running brushless, the race director will require that two motor leads be switched, AND reverse locked out. If you are running brushed, only resistor or Tamiya 3 step speed controls are allowed.:wink:


----------



## Big Phil (Apr 27, 2007)

rex cars said:


> It should be legal if you run foams. You will also have to make TWO 45second pit stops for each 12 minutes of race time. Assuming you are running brushless, the race director will require that two motor leads be switched, AND reverse locked out. If you are running brushed, only resistor or Tamiya 3 step speed controls are allowed.:wink:


If he runs a pink wing and purple wheels with the things listed above it will be allowed at GCRW.


----------



## Guffinator (Aug 27, 2005)

I'm curious Phil, how do you know that every electric guys makes his required pit stop?


----------



## Big Phil (Apr 27, 2007)

Guffinator said:


> I'm curious Phil, how do you know that every electric guys makes his required pit stop?


I've been trusting them to do the right thing. I will be watching them closely sat.This is something that we will go over in the drivers meeting.


----------



## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

ditto on what Phil said......I have a long list of things to go over at the drivers meeting when he's done.

Phil, I'm going to need your help at the drivers meeting to get a group picture of everyone, as well as all their cars lined up in front of them. Need to send it to current/potential sponsors to try and stock up on prizes for later in the year.


----------



## Big Phil (Apr 27, 2007)

Courtney Vaughan said:


> ditto on what Phil said......I have a long list of things to go over at the drivers meeting when he's done.
> 
> Phil, I'm going to need your help at the drivers meeting to get a group picture of everyone, as well as all their cars lined up in front of them. Need to send it to current/potential sponsors to try and stock up on prizes for later in the year.


We can take pictures right after the meeting..


----------



## Donnie Hayden (Mar 7, 2005)

what the hell are yall talking about? LOL!


----------

