# Length of leader?



## OpenFLy (Aug 24, 2015)

Just wondering if everyone generally uses short or long leaders for saltwater fishing? Most of my cast are short and I feel a shorter leader would be better and more accurate. I'm pretty new to fly fishing so this may be a dumb question.


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

Guarantee you it isn't a dumb question. Watch how many different answers you get.

Here's mine: It depends...on the fish you are targeting, on the water clarity, on the water depth you are targeting, on the type of fly you are using, on the amount of fishing pressure the fish have, etc. 

There is no one answer...and your comfort with a specific length should be a secondary consideration to the situation.

If I'm dredging for tarpon in really deep water with sinking lines I'll use a 4 ft leader...but those same fish in shallow water feeding on top I would have at least a 9 ft leader and probably longer. 

The situation dictates my length of leader. Preparation means you would be ready for whatever situation so it is good to develop competency with at least 12 ft leaders...the time to learn isn't on a bright sunny day with skittish leader shy fish. 

Welcome to fly fishing...enjoy the greatest form of sport fishing.


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## southpaw (Feb 25, 2009)

I generally use a 9' leader with a 2-3' tippet. I mostly just go after redfish though and have never really tried anything else so it may not be the best thing to use but seems to work alright for me even at close ranges.


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## skinnywaterfishin (Jul 1, 2015)

Not a dumb question at all....it's a lifetime of learning..don't ever hesitate to ask.

I use a 9' leader for the salt and make my own in 3 sections...typically a 20-30 lb butt, 15-20 lb. midsection and then 10-12 lb.


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## Ripin' Lips (Jul 3, 2012)

all great responses. you should be ok with a 9ft leader here in TX unless you are fishing in gin clear water, then you may want to go longer.
I think most of the fly guys tie their own leaders so each will be a little different in terms of test pound line but generally they are 3 sections about 2-3ft per section. I prefer a heavier butt and midsection to help the larger flies turn over a bit better. Not sure if this is common with everyone or just my style of casting. I may even tie a 4 section leader going from 60-40-30-20/15 depending on conditions and species.


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## Rob S (Jan 8, 2007)

I have used as short as 4-6' and from 9-12'. For inshore redfish and specks 9' leader will be fine. When I target sheepies I tend to like 10-12ft leaders.


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## bugchunker (Dec 23, 2013)

*leaders*

I agree with everyone else. A 9' leader is a good place to start, it will meet 99% of your needs. As for tying your own, they work fine but a pain. I found Cabela's sell a store brand 4 pack for about $10. I buy the 9'taper 10lb test. Then I cut off about 2' and add a 2' bite tippet of 15lb. mono or fluro whichever you like. When the tippet gets too short I replace it. So one leader will last a long time. 
If your after Redfish in less than gin clear water you can go real cheap and use 6' of 30lb and 3' of 15lb and call it good. Used it many times in Trinity bay.
Best thing is don't over think your leader. Presentation is much more important.


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## Worm Drowner (Sep 9, 2010)

9' is a good start, but consider if the fly is turning over or not. If not, you may want to shorten up a bit. Some flies are easier to cast with a long leader than others.


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## karstopo (Jun 29, 2009)

I make mine typically out of 6-7 feet of 30 or 40 pound fluorocarbon butt and 4-5 feet of 15-20 pound tippet. When I get to about 2 feet of tippet, I usually replace. Old butt sections work well for weed guards on flies. 

I use this for redfish, trout, flounder, drum, in marsh, bay, jetty and surf. Only caught a few bluefish and Spanish mackerel but I usually have a couple of wire bite tippets handy.


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## southpaw (Feb 25, 2009)

I tied my own leaders for a little bit, but then I found these and stocked up on them.

http://www.sierratradingpost.com/sc...ly~tippet andand leader;16 lb/&colorFamily=01

I had a coupon code that knocked them down to under $3 per pack. Since I use a a tippet, the actual leader lasts me forever. Assuming a fish doesn't run me across some oyster or I decide to be a dingus and tie knots in my leader with some tailing loops


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## Ripin' Lips (Jul 3, 2012)

you will still want to learn to tie your own leaders. I bought the tapered leaders and they work fine but there will be a day when you are on the boat and break your last leader. I feel like using as store bought leader is like putting a bumper sticker on a Ferrari when you start tying your own flies.


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

Ripin' Lips said:


> you will still want to learn to tie your own leaders. ....


Absolutely agree. Its very quick and very precise for any given situation.

When you are out in the bush or on sand flats or whatever miles and miles from "civilization" you better have leader material and be proficient at tying them quickly.


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

Just to add to the variety of responses.....I'm making up a few GT leaders with 5 ft of 100 lb flouro and 4 ft of 80 pound flouro...and expecting/hoping to loose some to angry GT's, LOL. 

I doubt you will find any of those in the store.


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## Ripin' Lips (Jul 3, 2012)

Meadowlark said:


> Absolutely agree. Its very quick and very precise for any given situation.
> 
> When you are out in the bush or on sand flats or whatever miles and miles from "civilization" you better have leader material and be proficient at tying them quickly.


 to add to this^

you don't need to bring the spool of leader material. simply cut off 3-4ft sections for each pound test you want to bring and keep the spools in the boat or truck. tippet spool is small enough that you can bring with you


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## Permit Rat (May 13, 2014)

I do pretty much the same as y'all, except for permit, where I want the shortest leader possible. I aim for 7 ft., but usually err on the side of longer. There are plenty of reasons for this, but unless you're traveling to catch permit, they are useless to everyone here.

My only difference in my regular leaders, is that my permanent leader butt has the first taper built into it. For 7-8 wt. lines, that's usually 2.5 ft. of 40 lb., surgeon's knotted to 2 ft. of 30 lb. Put the smallest Palomar loop in the 30. Then at home I tie up the rest of the tapers and loop-to-loop them onto the permanent butt section. I can even take a store-bought leader and loop-to-loop that too. I find that the butt sections of many store--bought leaders are too thin anyway, so this helps the progression a lot. I end up with a 9-10 ft. leader.

You always want to make the smallest loop knots possible in your leaders, to minimize "hinging."


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## Ripin' Lips (Jul 3, 2012)

You always want to make the smallest loop knots possible in your leaders, to minimize "hinging."[/QUOTE]

Im curious......Can you elaborate? I've been told that you want the hinging at the knots..... from the butt section-mid-tippet. Specifically it helps turn the fly over.


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## karstopo (Jun 29, 2009)

I've never tried a loop to loop connection between my tippet and butt. I've been doing blood knots, but they eat up the butt eventually. I'm going to try the Loop to loop. Sure would make tippet changes more simple. I suppose you are using a perfection loop. That's what I use to join butt to fly line.


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## Permit Rat (May 13, 2014)

Ripin' Lips said:


> You always want to make the smallest loop knots possible in your leaders, to minimize "hinging."


_Im curious......Can you elaborate? I've been told that you want the hinging at the knots..... from the butt section-mid-tippet. Specifically it helps turn the fly over._

I don't know who told you that, but hinging anywhere in a fly line/leader is a bad thing. Most people have this problem when they try to customize a fly line, such as incorporating a thinner running line 0n a 12-15 wt. head, for tuna and billfish.

But you can get it in a leader as well. Basically, you want your leader and fly to turn over, much in the same way as your fly line.....in a rounded loop. If you have a weak connection in there, the leader can "hinge" and allow the top portion of the leader and the fly to fall down and possibly catch in the lower portion of the loop. Not only that, but large loops are more wind resistant and to have a sizable length of extra resistance in your leader somewhere.......well...

I hope that all made sense. Sometimes I'm not too good at explaining things.


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## Ripin' Lips (Jul 3, 2012)

I hope that all made sense. Sometimes I'm not too good at explaining things.[/QUOTE]

i see what you are saying about hinging using the loop to loop connections.

I was thinking of the knots in the leader as the hinge. I was told that hand tied leaders were better b/c of the knots and that the knots help turn the fly over. I guessing something about transfer of energy or more rigidity at knot locations. that's a guess based on the info i was given.


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## sjrobin (Oct 1, 2009)

Permit is dead on the leaders. In fact the shorter the leader the better the casting and turnover of the fly, especially in wind. Hinging in leaders is not good. Ideally the entire leader is an extension of the fly line, only necessary to prevent spooking the fish and tying the fly. Check out Lefty Kreh or others. The late Chris Phillips at FTU was an advocate of straight 16 lb Hard Mason 4 to 6 ft. Some of the stiff flourocarbons will cause hinge when mixed with limp mono. I like the new Suffix mono leader spools, not too limp or stiff. 50/40/30 or 40/30/20 then whatever tippet you can get away with. Small is good to give the fly life.


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## sjrobin (Oct 1, 2009)

Meadow lark you better have a circuit breaker in that GT leader set up or bring a bunch of fly rods.


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

sjrobin said:


> Meadow lark you better have a circuit breaker in that GT leader set up or bring a bunch of fly rods.


LOL...you are right!!

The GT's may win...but it will be a hell of a fight.


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## Permit Rat (May 13, 2014)

karstopo said:


> I've never tried a loop to loop connection between my tippet and butt. I've been doing blood knots, but they eat up the butt eventually. I'm going to try the Loop to loop. Sure would make tippet changes more simple. *I suppose you are using a perfection loop*. That's what I use to join butt to fly line.


YES!!!! And thank you. I had just been reading another thread where people were mentioning the Palomar loop for attaching lures, hooks, etc. And I absent-mindedly typed "Palomar," instead of "Perfection," in my post.

Call it a senior moment, I guess.

Edit: My permanent leader butts last a long time....several years before I feel the need to re-do them. I guess it depends on the class tippets you use. I've heard some guys are simply going down to straight 20 lb. and not using a shock for redfish. Me, I never use more than 10-12 lb. on those wt. rods and I will add a shock if necessary.

Some of the leader mfgrs. have almost the same diameter butt sections on all their leaders. If you try my system and want to use a knotless leader, you'll be looking for 7 footers, instead of 9-10 ft. Point is that the butt diameter should be nearly the same in the shorter leader.


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## southpaw (Feb 25, 2009)

Man apparently I need to experiment more with my leaders!


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