# First I Bouhgt the Hype, Then I was Schooled!



## choppercop

I started a thread a couple of weeks ago seeking advise on a rod blank after I had broken my Shamino Cumulus rod (if you want buy one, it's for sale as soon as its replaced!). I've always thought I had to have the latest and greatest junk. I bought into the hype about needing the lightest weight, highest IM rating I could find, all without understanding why or if it would do what I was needing.

I had several responses advising that I needed to use this blank or that blank. One thing that I did receive was a PM from a guy saying that he had a little information to share with me. Turns out he was a custom rod builder. He started sending emails about E glass, S glass, composites, and different grades of graphite. I'd read an article and shoot him an email asking a question. He would reply and send another article.

After I thought had a very basic understanding of rod blanks I asked him what blank he would recommend for me. This one question, "What blank would you recommend" started an entirely new round of questions, this time from him. Where do you fish? How do you fish? What are you fishing for? How much weight do you throw? How big of fish? How do you transport your rods? In the boat? In the car? What about guide size? What he was teaching me without my knowing it, was the process of how and why to build a mission specific rod.

After the exchange of no less than 30 emails and numerous phone calls, he tells me that based all of the information I had provide him, he recommended that I use "this" blank with "these" guides and here's why. The "here's why" I felt was very important, it let me understand why I needed X and not Y.

The builder told me that the components would cost me "X" dollars at such and such supply but, if I would like, he would build it for me for "Y" dollars. I decided to go with "Y". While this may sound like a time consuming process, I had the new rod in my hands within 2 weeks from my original post asking for blank recommendations. 

This isn't where my experience with a custom rod builder ends&#8230;. When I asked him about payment, he said, don't send me any money yet. Save the shipping tube (the builder is in Louisiana and I'm in Houston), fish the rod and if something needs to be tweaked, send it back (he would cover the shipping) and he would correct it. He wants to be certain that I am completely satisfied before he accepts a penny.

I know this has been a long post, but feel that it's an experience worth sharing. I guess the take away is: learn why we do something and don't just buy into the hype about needing the latest and greatest. If the latest and greatest doesn't fit your needs, it's not worth having. If your building or buying a rod, get one that fits the way you fish. Build mission specific when you can.

ChopperCop


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## devil1824

That is 2cool!


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## DPFISHERMAN

That is 2cool! I hope you enjoy it and catch many fish on it.


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## choppercop

It has really been a pleasure working with this builder. When I received the rod, I walked over to the park and threw a 3/8oz plastic weight (I told him I was pitching a light weight). I emailed him and let him know that I thought I was really going to like the rod. This was his response:

Glad to hear it - Remember rods are built task specific - that one sure was as well - That one was built to throw one ounce - When you say light it does not mean much to me. It should rocket anything above 5/8 oz and throw adequately down to 3/8 - 1/4 make is tough. Put one ounce on it and spool the Curado! Go to harbor freight and buy a digital scale - costs $ 9.00 then you will absolutely know what is going on. Glad to hear it works for you. Also remember when test casting on land to periodically wet the line with water - will make a huge difference and simulate fishing - if you are using braid get a product called Braid Aid and apply to the line as described on the bottle. line is wet !

His dedication to the art of rod building is unmatched. He really wants to educate the end user.

ChopperCop


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## patfatdaddy

You luckily came across avery good rodbuilder. A lot of rodbuilders (and fishermen) put more thought into what the rod looks like and how much it weighs than they do performance. When I build a rod for myself it does not have any bling at all. I use one color thread, no CP, and quality components. 
Pat


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## choppercop

He built me a 7'4" rod using "S" glass with micro guides and a split grip. I normally fish live bait under a 4 inch popping cork with a 1oz weight. It has a soft tip with plenty of back bone and very clean lines. It still quite light, I think the blank weighed something like 92gms. He knew what reel I was using and set the rod to balance at about 1.5 inches in front of the reel seat.


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## pg542

Congratulations, you have just discovered the difference between a "rod builder" and a "rod assembler". I know many, many folks that can build a rod, and some nice ones at that, but only a fraction of those that I would call a true rod builder. A true custom rod is much more than the sum of it's parts. I'm sure you'll have excellent service from your new rod. As far as your builder,,, call him up every now and then and tell him how pleased you still are, and don't forget to recommend to your fishing friends....Good story, thanks for posting...................just what part of Louisiana is this guy located anyway? lol....


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## choppercop

pg542 said:


> Congratulations, you have just discovered the difference between a "rod builder" and a "rod assembler". I know many, many folks that can build a rod, and some nice ones at that, but only a fraction of those that I would call a true rod builder. A true custom rod is much more than the sum of it's parts. I'm sure you'll have excellent service from your new rod. As far as your builder,,, call him up every now and then and tell him how pleased you still are, and don't forget to recommend to your fishing friends....Good story, thanks for posting...................just what part of Louisiana is this guy located anyway? lol....


I couldn't have said it better (and I tried!), he is a true craftsman. He is in Baton Rouge.


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## ellisredfish

That sounds like my old bud Bill Stevens who knows more about inshore and bass rods than I ever will.


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## xxxxxQTRODS

*hey dummy*

u never told use what u was using the rod for. u just complained about a shimano rod breaking. what would be a good rod to replace it with. u cant come with all this advice u got through the email on what u need and say what we where feeding u was a bunch of hype. several of use could have done the samething for u. i have built my share of s-glass lamiglas rod blanks. u never said how u where fishing {live bait popping cork**. i have pride about my rod work and would take afence to any body just petending that what i say is hype. there is alot hype going on, but i will try to shoot u straightup on any rod. so next time have some more clarity on this site. it sounds like u gotten taken care of............hello!!!!!! bennie

o yes this site is not a selling venue it is for giving the new rod builder advice. they have adds on this site of rod builders that could build u a rod. what about that hype.


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## choppercop

QTRODS said:


> u never told use what u was using the rod for. u just complained about a shimano rod breaking. what would be a good rod to replace it with. u cant come with all this advice u got through the email on what u need and say what we where feeding u was a bunch of hype. several of use could have done the samething for u. i have built my share of s-glass lamiglas rod blanks. u never said how u where fishing {live bait popping cork**. i have pride about my rod work and would take afence to any body just petending that what i say is hype. there is alot hype going on, but i will try to shoot u straightup on any rod. so next time have some more clarity on this site. it sounds like u gotten taken care of............hello!!!!!! bennie
> 
> o yes this site is not a selling venue it is for giving the new rod builder advice. they have adds on this site of rod builders that could build u a rod. what about that hype.


Bennie, sorry if you were offended. You have completely misunderstood my post. I was not trying to slam anyone for taking the time to reply to my original post. No one on this site gave me any hype about anything. The hype I bought was the marketing of higher and higher IM ratings from the rod manufactures. What I have learned is that just because a rod is so sensitive that you can feel a fish fart doesn't mean that its the right rod for you. While the Cumulus is a very good rod, now I know it was not designed to fish a 4" popping cork with a 1oz weight. I was asking the rod to do a job it was never designed for and that was probably the reason it failed.

The point I was trying to make is to get involved with a good custom rod builder (I'm in no way suggesting you are not) that will take the time to educate you and explain the differences between one product and another, especially if you are like me and don't understand the differences in rod material. I was in no way trying to discredit anyone that had given rod blank advise to me, but to give credit to you professional builders as a whole, and to share a very pleasant experience that I had with a custom rod builder. Maybe someone will read my about my experience and call you....

ChopperCop


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## jaycook

My guess is that you'll never buy "off the rack" again.


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## xxxxxQTRODS

sorry for the misunderstanding ........................bennie


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## choppercop

jaycook said:


> My guess is that you'll never buy "off the rack" again.


I believe that off the rack still has its place. If I were buying a rod for my wife that fishes once or twice a year or a preteen or teen aged kid, I would probably buy off the rack.

I was surprised to find that a custom rod was affordable, not that it was cheap, but not priced out of sight.

ChopperCop


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## choppercop

QTRODS said:


> sorry for the misunderstanding ........................bennie


No worries Bennie. I'm certain that if I had contacted you, you would have taken the same care that the gentleman who built my rod did. You would have built a rod designed specifically for the way I fish and I would have been just as proud of the rod you built as I am of the one that he built for me.


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## choppercop

Would you believe.... My Cumulus rod that I broke twice that started this whole thread was replaced by Shimano. The new rod arrived today.... broken!!! That makes 3 broken rods, counting the rod that Shimano will replace this one with makes 4 rods... total value $1,400 + tax...


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## goodwood

great original post. could I get some detail on the builder and the price?


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## WoundedMinnow

goodwood said:


> great original post. could I get some detail on the builder and the price?


x2....pm sent


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## xxxxxQTRODS

*hey what did he build*



choppercop said:


> No worries Bennie. I'm certain that if I had contacted you, you would have taken the same care that the gentleman who built my rod did. You would have built a rod designed specifically for the way I fish and I would have been just as proud of the rod you built as I am of the one that he built for me.


u keep reposting how great it is, let us know what he built. or is it a secret. the blank material if s-glass composite or what.i would not have built a s-glass rod. the reason is that it has no feel to the blank. these to me are only good for top water rods where you see the strike and set the hook it's soft tip allow u to set hook with out delay were as graphite would jerk the bait away to quick. u are fishing with a popping cork and live bait, do u want to catch flonder. keep the high modul graphite to use as your flonder rod okay just don't beat it around and do not high stick it. why u where built a glass rod is that u can get away with the some abuse to it and u can high stick it. this is what i think. ever time i go fishing i see people high sticking there rods and they wonder why they brake. shamano has quality name in the industry for quality products. the higher quality graphite cost more but that does not mean that they are more durable, these blank are design to have sesitivety not durability. that mean that you more expesive rod are more fragile. that is why that i proposed the searies v st croix because it is highly sinsetive and was engineered with some duribility to it..............bennie 
*Thread*: First I Bouhgt the Hype, Then I was Schooled! Reply to Thread


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## choppercop

Bennie, I'm not sure where the problem is. I made a post to relate the experience I had using a custom rod builder. I was hoping that people reading my post might think about contacting a custom builder and have a rod built for the way they fish instead of possibly going to FTU and spending way more money on a production rod (like I did) instead of having one custom built. I purposely didn't post the name of the gentleman who built my rod or for that matter exactly what rod he built (unless someone fishes the same way I do, the rod that was built for me, may not be the rod for them). I'm not trying to say "use THIS guy, he builds the best rods" I am just saying that a custom rod builder, like yourself, or any other rod builder for that matter, would take the time to learn about the how a customer would fish and build a rod specifically for them. This in my opinion is a much better option than spending hundreds of dollars on a production rod. One size doesn't fit all.


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## locketx82

I know who im not going to use to build me a custom rod.


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## tx.fishead

Glad to hear that you got what you wanted. It doesn't matter what he built you, A rod is a tool and you need the right tool for a certain job.I have been using custom rods for a long time, I still have factory rods and a few I have built myself. But you are correct that some rod builders DON'T ask the right questions or they build what THEY think is the right rod.....because it fits them and not you. There is nothing better than using a rod that FITS and feels right.


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## xxxxxQTRODS

*sorry that i come across as a smart as-*



choppercop said:


> Bennie, sorry if you were offended. You have completely misunderstood my post. I was not trying to slam anyone for taking the time to reply to my original post. No one on this site gave me any hype about anything. The hype I bought was the marketing of higher and higher IM ratings from the rod manufactures. What I have learned is that just because a rod is so sensitive that you can feel a fish fart doesn't mean that its the right rod for you. While the Cumulus is a very good rod, now I know it was not designed to fish a 4" popping cork with a 1oz weight. I was asking the rod to do a job it was never designed for and that was probably the reason it failed.
> 
> The point I was trying to make is to get involved with a good custom rod builder (I'm in no way suggesting you are not) that will take the time to educate you and explain the differences between one product and another, especially if you are like me and don't understand the differences in rod material. I was in no way trying to discredit anyone that had given rod blank advise to me, but to give credit to you professional builders as a whole, and to share a very pleasant experience that I had with a custom rod builder. Maybe someone will read my about my experience and call you....
> 
> ChopperCop


that was what i was trying to explain that there was no hype. the rod was not design for what u was using it for. that is why the rod comes with line weight and lure weight guides on the blank. what i was trying to tell u is to keep the rod and fish it for what it supposed to be used for. artificals and free line live bait. u might catch somthing large. it is very important to stay in the weight and line ranges of a graphite blank. i will leave u with this; a rod i built two and a half years caught this...........bennie


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## xxxxxQTRODS

locketx82 said:


> I know who im not going to use to build me a custom rod.


 i dont ship that for anyway!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## adpostel

WOW!! First time lurking thru the rod building forum and I get this..... Interesting....


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## fishntx62

I haven't been building rods for a long time,But I have been fishing all my life so to be honest with you guys. Picking the rod blank that I want to use for my build is the easiest part of building the rod. For example I will not sell a IM10 Rod Blank built for wade fishing to an unexpierienced wade fisherman, you expierienced guys know exactly why.


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## firephil

adpostel said:


> WOW!! First time lurking thru the rod building forum and I get this..... Interesting....


 Yeah, me too. Bennie its time to switch to de-caf


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## saltshaker1

firephil said:


> Yeah, me too. Bennie its time to switch to de-caf


Or put down the bottle.


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## ntezbnchz

saltshaker1 said:


> Or put down the bottle.


could be a pipe... im guessing he doesnt like competition. :ac550:


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## Silverfox1

I would second that.


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## Bubba_Bruiser

Not meaning to hijack, but I am really wanting an S-glass to build off of after seeing the RF Elite blanks at Swampland. I noticed some rods in stores are starting to show up being called S-glass too.

I have a composite 7'6" Lamiglas cranking stick, but I think it will be taking a back seat soon. They are lighter and just feel crisper than the composites. This is just handling though, I haven't had a chance to fish one yet.

But just reading through, who is better to take advise from other than the man watching over them, Richard Forhan. Here is some reading I ran across while researching the blanks a little bit on net from the Swampland site.

Forhan....Rest of the Story


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## xxxxxQTRODS

Bubba_Bruiser said:


> Not meaning to hijack, but I am really wanting an S-glass to build off of after seeing the RF Elite blanks at Swampland. I noticed some rods in stores are starting to show up being called S-glass too.
> 
> I have a composite 7'6" Lamiglas cranking stick, but I think it will be taking a back seat soon. They are lighter and just feel crisper than the composites. This is just handling though, I haven't had a chance to fish one yet.
> 
> But just reading through, who is better to take advise from other than the man watching over them, Richard Forhan. Here is some reading I ran across while researching the blanks a little bit on net from the Swampland site.
> 
> Forhan....Rest of the Story


do u know who invented the cranking rod and why?


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## xxxxxQTRODS

*i guess anything i say would fall on deaf ear but i will say it anyway*

the s-glass rod has that soft tip that when u set the hook it will not jerk the bait out of the fishes mouth. for a graphite to have a solf tip about 8" of the tip would be the size of a match stix. the graphite rod was invent for texas style worm fishing. its senitivety put the glass or plastic out like the lews speed stix. after hmg graphite then fenwick in vented the s-glass for a topwater rod. i welcome competition thats what makes me tuff!!!


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## xxxxxQTRODS

*Pal elias*

he invented the cranking rod and won his first bassmaster classis back in the 70s. he also just broke the record for the most poundage caught in a bassmaster tournement on lake falcon with his cranking method. in rodbuilding this is what u call keeping up with your homework. i love the fact that im a part of this and there is over 3000 hits.


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## Bill Stevens

*Bennie You Should Show the Courtesty to Capitalize Paul's Last Name*

When you see Paul the next time ask him what rods and blanks he is using.

If you can guess what boat wrap and truck is his Swampland will give you a 10% discount on a kit for a moving bait stick including the S Glass Composite Alabama Rig rod!


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## Swampland

Some facts about Paul Elias.

He didn't invent the cranking rod. Glass cranking rods have around a long time. He "invented" the technique known as Kneeling & Reeling in which he put his rod in the water up to his reel while cranking his deep diving crank baits to get a few extra feet in depth.

Paul won the Classic in 1982. Not in the 70's.

Paul was not cranking when he won his last tournament. He was using the Alabama Rig with 5 jig heads and tails. Plus he was using a graphite rod at the time, most probably a Flippin' stick and not a glass rod.

Oh,and there are many graphite rods out on the market that are used for crank baits that has tips as soft as a glass rods that are much larger in diameter than a match stick.


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## xxxxxQTRODS

*i guess im wrong*



swampland said:


> some facts about paul elias.
> 
> He didn't invent the cranking rod. Glass cranking rods have around a long time. He "invented" the technique known as kneeling & reeling in which he put his rod in the water up to his reel while cranking his deep diving crank baits to get a few extra feet in depth.
> 
> Paul won the classic in 1982. Not in the 70's.
> 
> Paul was not cranking when he won his last tournament. He was using the alabama rig with 5 jig heads and tails. Plus he was using a graphite rod at the time, most probably a flippin' stick and not a glass rod.
> 
> Oh,and there are many graphite rods out on the market that are used for crank baits that has tips as soft as a glass rods that are much larger in diameter than a match stick.


paul didnot go to his rod manufature and ask for them to build a long seven and onehalf foot rod{became know as a cranking rod] so that he could reach some twenty foot fish that he had seen on his deptfinder. Back then the longest fishing rod that they fished with a 6'6" rods in the 82 classic. Is not his number one bait used a crankbait and is not the umberall or alabama rig a crank bait. In lake falcon u cannot use a cranking rod because the bass are large and egressive and the rod does not have the power for that lake to pull those fish up from the deep out of the brush. I have custom wanting the heavist 8' blank to fish that lake. They just do not want to pay the price. There is no large graphite blank with a large soft tips other than a composite it is great to see him sponcered by seeker one of the best builder of s-glass blanks. Your making my head hert.


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## Bill Stevens

*Bennie Thanks For Contributing To This Topic*

_Bennie, I hope you had success with aspirin for your previous affliction. I also hope you have an additional supply._

Hopefully new rodbuilders reading this thread gain communications skills. The arts are important to the craft but a basic knowledge of how to match the rod to the task is also important.

Partial Quotes From Your Previous Posts.

" so that he could reach some twenty foot fish that he had seen on his deptfinder"

" In lake falcon u cannot use a cranking rod because the bass are large and egressive and the rod does not have the power for that lake to pull those fish up from the deep out of the brush."

Question: Do you of a fisherman, "Speedy" who owns Beacon Lodge at Falcon? Does he have special cranking rods for sale to engage the beasts? Does he sell them? Are they effective? Eight Footers are the quite common.

Question: What depths are crank baits fished at Falcon?

Question: What do they do when the side image unit shows fish at 40+ feet Can you describe "long lining a crankbait"?

Question: What technique do you use to "set the hook" when using a crank bait?

Question: What does the the term "keep them buttoned up" mean to a skilled crank bait angler.

What percentage of Elite Professional Anglers choose a "glass" cranking rod. What is the reason why?

Question: Which Top Angler, an ex Bassmaster Classic Winner, developed this Technique: Does he use graphite or S Glass Blanks.

"One of my favorite tactics is to fish a big Strike King crank bait in extremely-shallow water on really-heavy line. I like to take a Strike King Series 5 crank bait on a heavy rod with 20-pound-test line and fish in water 2- to 4-foot deep that has really heavy cover in it, including logs, timber and brush. I like to fish these areas with a deep-diving crankbait because if the average angler looks at that heavy cover in shallow water, then a deep-diving crank bait is the last lure he'll ever think of fishing. Instead he's going to think, "I need to fish that area with a spinner bait, a tube bait or a jig and pig. That cover's so rough I don't want to cast that bait in there that will hang-up." You have to remember that the bass holding in that cover have already seen all the lures that the fishermen have thought about using. But, more than likely, they haven't seen a crank bait in that thick cover.

One of the reasons I'll choose to fish a deep-diving crank bait like a Series 5 is because I'm making short casts, and I want that crankbait to dive quickly. If you're fishing a smaller crank bait, it won't dive as quickly as a Series 5 will. By using 25-pound-test line, I can make two or three turns on the handle and that deep-diving crank bait is down on the bottom, rooting around in the mud and bumping the sticks and the limbs. Once I get that crank bait down to the bottom, I can finesse fish it through the limbs and the stumps and walk that bait right through the cover. That big bill will act as a bumper on a car and let you fish that crank bait through that cover. Then when a bass sees a big deep-diving crank bait wallowing through that cover where that fish never has seen anything but a pig and jig, a spinner bait, a buzz bait or a tube, then that fish is much more likely to attack the crank bait than he is to go after one of those other lures that he looks at every day.

To fish a deep-diving crank bait in heavy-shallow water cover, you have to have courage, patience and the ability to feel what your bait's doing when that lure's bill touches the cover. If you'll just take your time and work the bait slowly, you can walk it through that thick cover. You'll be surprised how many bass you'll catch."


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## xxxxxQTRODS

*stupid is is stupid does*



Bill Stevens said:


> _Bennie, I hope you had success with aspirin for your previous affliction. I also hope you have an additional supply._
> 
> Hopefully new rodbuilders reading this thread gain communications skills. The arts are important to the craft but a basic knowledge of how to match the rod to the task is also important.
> 
> Partial Quotes From Your Previous Posts.
> 
> " so that he could reach some twenty foot fish that he had seen on his deptfinder"
> 
> " In lake falcon u cannot use a cranking rod because the bass are large and egressive and the rod does not have the power for that lake to pull those fish up from the deep out of the brush."
> 
> Question: Do you of a fisherman, "Speedy" who owns Beacon Lodge at Falcon? Does he have special cranking rods for sale to engage the beasts? Does he sell them? Are they effective? Eight Footers are the quite common.
> 
> Question: What depths are crank baits fished at Falcon?
> 
> Question: What do they do when the side image unit shows fish at 40+ feet Can you describe "long lining a crankbait"?
> 
> Question: What technique do you use to "set the hook" when using a crank bait?
> 
> Question: What does the the term "keep them buttoned up" mean to a skilled crank bait angler.
> 
> What percentage of Elite Professional Anglers choose a "glass" cranking rod. What is the reason why?
> 
> Question: Which Top Angler, an ex Bassmaster Classic Winner, developed this Technique: Does he use graphite or S Glass Blanks.
> 
> "One of my favorite tactics is to fish a big Strike King crank bait in extremely-shallow water on really-heavy line. I like to take a Strike King Series 5 crank bait on a heavy rod with 20-pound-test line and fish in water 2- to 4-foot deep that has really heavy cover in it, including logs, timber and brush. I like to fish these areas with a deep-diving crankbait because if the average angler looks at that heavy cover in shallow water, then a deep-diving crank bait is the last lure he'll ever think of fishing. Instead he's going to think, "I need to fish that area with a spinner bait, a tube bait or a jig and pig. That cover's so rough I don't want to cast that bait in there that will hang-up." You have to remember that the bass holding in that cover have already seen all the lures that the fishermen have thought about using. But, more than likely, they haven't seen a crank bait in that thick cover.
> 
> One of the reasons I'll choose to fish a deep-diving crank bait like a Series 5 is because I'm making short casts, and I want that crankbait to dive quickly. If you're fishing a smaller crank bait, it won't dive as quickly as a Series 5 will. By using 25-pound-test line, I can make two or three turns on the handle and that deep-diving crank bait is down on the bottom, rooting around in the mud and bumping the sticks and the limbs. Once I get that crank bait down to the bottom, I can finesse fish it through the limbs and the stumps and walk that bait right through the cover. That big bill will act as a bumper on a car and let you fish that crank bait through that cover. Then when a bass sees a big deep-diving crank bait wallowing through that cover where that fish never has seen anything but a pig and jig, a spinner bait, a buzz bait or a tube, then that fish is much more likely to attack the crank bait than he is to go after one of those other lures that he looks at every day.
> 
> To fish a deep-diving crank bait in heavy-shallow water cover, you have to have courage, patience and the ability to feel what your bait's doing when that lure's bill touches the cover. If you'll just take your time and work the bait slowly, you can walk it through that thick cover. You'll be surprised how many bass you'll catch."


is it tommy martin u are talking about. also since pros cannot troll they cast as for as they can and then use the trolling motor to unspool the reel then deep crank the bait back to the boat that might get 40 feet. u know something im tired of answering all these question. u need to come clean and admit that i was right about the cranking rod, i would if u where right. sorry im little dislexit, but i dus know how to build a fishing rod !!!!!!!!!!!! bennie


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## casewilliams

I'm glad I came across this, this was some good stuff. I guess all I have to say is " Whom is more of a fool? The fool, or the one who argues with a fool?


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## xxxxxQTRODS

*The prank caller is the fool*



casewilliams said:


> I'm glad I came across this, this was some good stuff. I guess all I have to say is " Whom is more of a fool? The fool, or the one who argues with a fool?


I guess u are the fool making a prank call to me with caller Id.


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## casewilliams

I just wanted to find out if you were the idiot you seem to be on this board.


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## xxxxxQTRODS

casewilliams said:


> I just wanted to find out if you were the idiot you seem to be on this board.


Yes I'm the idiot like a fox!!!


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## patfatdaddy

You boys behave.


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