# Red Snapper Warning!!!



## Buda Blue Water Boy (May 24, 2004)

I have been fishing for over 30 years and had my first bad experience with the Game wardens on Saturday. Before I tell this story I want to tell everybody that I have been stopped several times over the years and have always had very cordial experiences with the Game wardens.
We got to the dock (Port A) about 4:00pm Saturday with a couple boxes full of Tuna and snapper. Went out around 40 miles and found a couple shrimp boats that were holding Blackfin and Bonita along with blacktip sharks. We put 12 blackfin in the box, released many more, put some bonita in the box, which I cut up to use for bait in future trips, and released several blacktip sharks, all under the 5' limit. I had a very rookie crew who was traveling from the Austin area and only gets to fish with me once or twice a year if that, so after having our thrill with these species, we headed in to State waters at a snapper spot that very few know about. In about an hours time we put 16 keepers in the box, (there was 6 of us in the boat), and called it a trip and headed in.
We get to the dock, put the fish on the hooks, take some pictures as it was a very proud group of rookie fisherman and this was a big day fishing for them.
Then we start cleaning the fish, and about 15 minutes into this we have two cop cars come storming up with lights a flashing and they (Police officers) jump out of the car and start questioning us on our catch. I let them know where we went, show them on a chart and on the GPS, and then watch them make a call. He gets off the phone, tells me to step out of the boat, and says we all need to wait here for the Game warden. They do let us continue to clean our fish, and after almost an hour the game warden drives up, counts the fish, looks in their mouth, questions each one of us individually, doing it in a very intimadating atmosphere, then checks my GPS, and then lets me know that I am lucky he does not confiscate the GPS to take in and double check our Trail and make sure it matches our story!!!
Here we were excited about the trip, and get to shore and are treated like criminals, it was a very unfun experience. (Those that know me well, I am sure feel the Criminal part fits me well) . 
After he is satisfied, I ask him what this is all about, and he says that somebody called and alerted them to our catch, and they (the person that called) can get a cash reward if it is proven we caught them in Federal waters.
I just want to let everybody know that you had better be careful with your catch, especially with snapper. I assume the burden of proof is on them, but according to this game warden, if they suspect you are lying, they can take your GPS- and those of you that delete your trails, it does not delete it from most GPS chips!!! As I said before, this was my first bad experience with them and it took the fun out of the great day of fishing we had!!!


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## bostonwhaler (Aug 24, 2006)

well i guess they were just doing there job..but what gets me is WHY PEOPLE CANT MIND THERE OWN BUISNESS ..i mean life isnt middle school anymore people just need to get a life,


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## Gethookedadventures (Jan 1, 2007)

hmm thats crazy i got checked several times and all they checked was to see if i had my 4 per person and if they were long enough and to have a great day!


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## Mako Mike (Jun 8, 2006)

To me, during the off season, the only time I would go for snapper is if that is all we went for and we never cross into federal waters. I don't see the benefit to running the risk and getting harrassed either way.

That said, if you have a camera that can take video, I think it would be your best bet to make a short video of your GPS location and no snapper in the box before you start fishing. Only way I can think to "prove" where you caught them.

It is a necessary evil guy, don't take it too personal. Make sure to thank the gmae wardens on being that strict and allowing little room for interpretation. I have noticed it tends to chill them out a bit if the get some appreciation in the middle of doing their jobs.


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## Chase This! (Jul 20, 2007)

Did you say cop cars??? Surely they have more important things to worry about than red snapper.

Sounds strange.

Brandon


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## Gethookedadventures (Jan 1, 2007)

its may be a rookie warden trying to make a name for himself had that experince once stoped me 22 miles offshore and informed me he was going to check my snapper i said go for it bro! i thought i was legal well i had two slide up under the ice and i messed up on my count somewhere. he told me i had two over my limit and he was going to write me a ticket for it. i said ok but do you realize you have no juristiction out here your in federal waters. he made a phone call on the sat phone and said your absolutly right have a nice day sir! so need less to say i gave him to snapper and told him enjoy his dinner!


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## team axis (Jan 24, 2008)

that sux! sorry to hear about that glad yall had a good trip it would be nice if people did grow up and stay out of others buisness, but that will never happen!!


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## Bill C (May 23, 2004)

I agree with Mako Mike. I'm sorry it was such a rough experience for you but I do like the fact that someone who was worried about the resource called in the authorities and they responded.

I do not agree with rough and threatening tactics though.


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## CoastalOutfitters (Aug 20, 2004)

not passing judgement on you , but look at this for what it is.

you had obvious deepwater fish....tuna

you had snapper......closed in deep water

burden of proof was up to you..............and you passed the test

lucky you didn't have a big bag of cubed bonito

would be curious who and why turned you in ???


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## Swells (Nov 27, 2007)

Just remember, if you want enforcement on the commercials it works on us recs, too, even-Steven. 

You should even know that if the cops get a complaint call, they are required to investigate it even if they take no action. I agree that the complainer was a twit and complete idiot, but the cops could have managed it better ... filing false complaints and reports to the police can be prosecuted by the law as well. -sam


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## THE JAMMER (Aug 1, 2005)

It would sure be nice if they were any where near that diligent in policing the commercials.

*"You're lucky he didn't confiscate your GPS???"* sounds like someone trying to stroke an ego.

THE "GOOD FOR YOU" JAMMER


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## hilton (Jan 28, 2008)

*snapper*

Howdy,
"...he says that somebody called and alerted them to our catch, and they (the person that called) can get a cash reward if it is proven we caught them in Federal waters".

Interesting that this happens right after TPWD goes against adopting federal regs...could be that someone is trying to make a case for adopting federal regs through the enforcement issue. Granted, the guy did have deep water fish on board, it still seems odd that the police(?) were involved at all.

*1. Where do you find out about whether the offer for a reward is true or not?*

*2. Who is paying this reward?*

Tom


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## Hughoo222 (Aug 24, 2005)

The initial report is a matter of public record if you really want to know. I had one "try" to board me inside the POC jetties with a swift current running through, one guy drove the boat alongside and his buddy attemps to jump on my boat as I yell "whoa", I pointed to my 75 pound bulldog and told him she would not like him jumping in my boat with my wife and kids and that I would be glad to move to a safer locale as I like my gelcoat unscratched. When he heard this his buddy who was the smart one asked if we had been fishing or had any fish, I replied no and opened all my boxes for them to see and he told me to have a nice day. 
Mind you I have spent many hours at TPW on behalf of fishing issues and even enforcement issues and have several friends in enforcement at TPW, sounds like you just got a over zealous hot shot. I actually worked to help get the federal laws adopted in Texas for prosecuting violators, TPW will be tough on violators and trust me you do not want a Red Snapper violation in Texas, especially one of any size (commercial). I am suprised he did not want to see the circle hooks required by Texas law as well!


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## Hughoo222 (Aug 24, 2005)

Tom, I think it is operation game thief @ TPW , I turned in a shrimper/snapper bandit last year and they offered me a reward after he was busted, of course I declined the $.



hilton said:


> Howdy,
> "...he says that somebody called and alerted them to our catch, and they (the person that called) can get a cash reward if it is proven we caught them in Federal waters".
> 
> Interesting that this happens right after TPWD goes against adopting federal regs...could be that someone is trying to make a case for adopting federal regs through the enforcement issue. Granted, the guy did have deep water fish on board, it still seems odd that the police(?) were involved at all.
> ...


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## team axis (Jan 24, 2008)

why decline the money?????


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## bumfisherman (Sep 5, 2005)

I seriously disagree with some comments and the manner in which you were treated. You are a tax paying citizen, a boat owner, a licensed fisherman, and most importantly within the laws of the state. You should not have to prove your innocence in this matter. Your possession of deep water fish is also your right. I personally fish beyond nine miles each trip I take and also stop on the way in to fish for Snaps during the closed federal season. I would contact higher authorities and discuss the situation.


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## Ragman (May 21, 2004)

_"why decline the money?????"_

Principle.


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## Flyboy (Oct 3, 2004)

Hughoo222 said:


> *I am suprised he did not want to see the circle hooks required by Texas law as well*!


I have heard this and I have looked everywhere for it in the Texas Fishing and Hunting Regulations - Valid September 1, 2007 through August 31, 2008 book. 
I even asked a Game Warden and he said he had never heard of it... Where is this in the regulation book? Can you point me to the page?


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## DFoley (Sep 11, 2007)

CoastalOutfitters said:


> not passing judgement on you , but look at this for what it is.
> 
> you had obvious deepwater fish....tuna
> 
> ...


Beat me to it...

but congrats, it couldve been worse


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## fishndiver (Sep 21, 2007)

*fishndiver*

This will be an unresolved issue until fed. rec. season opens in June, then will heat back up again in October-----*YOU* *ALL ASK WHY*, because all of us will eventually venture out farther than 9 miles to catch Ling, King, Dorado, grouper, AJs ect(ALL OF WHICH "WE" LIST AS DEEPWATER SPECIES) before June and after Sept. 31st then only to return to state waters to try our luck at *OUR* yes I said *OUR* state resource to fill the box with a few snapper and then return home. I find it very hard to enforce this so called GPS tracking unless all of the sudden we are all required to have a VMS on board---which will never happen in the rec. field. It will happen as a daily occurance amongst all the charter/head boats, because they have to keep the customers happy. As far as the threats you had issued at you sometimes game wardens have bad days which in this case it sounds like maybe that was the call---BUT even if you do have a badge it gives YOU NO RIGHT TO THREATEN A PERSON.


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## DFoley (Sep 11, 2007)

Agreed fishndiver. GWs checking GPS track is bulls***. I havent cleared my GPS track since I got the thing and that was a year ago.I guess if I get stopped with snapper on board and they want to check my GPS track, then I guess im screwed sad3sm


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## Swells (Nov 27, 2007)

My understanding is that the requirement for circle hooks when ground fishing such as for red snapper is only a federal thing.

My understanding of the TPWD wardens is that they can only enforce the waters out to 9 nautical miles. They have to call the Coast Guard for any matters in federal waters, period. 

It does seem as though our friend was sorely treated by a state fish cop. That said, it is a classic enforcement strategy to make people very nervous, which is why our border and airport check-points are such unhappy places now.

What happens is you get some kids in enforcement who tend to twist off and act like really bad honchos, always a few in the crowd. The older TPWD game wardens are really cool and I've never ran into a bum one. 

I'm sorry that happened on a nice day with your Austin friends. I hope that doesn't give them a bummer sttitude about fishing offshore. /sam


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## Formula4Fish (Apr 24, 2007)

Flyboy said:


> I have heard this and I have looked everywhere for it in the Texas Fishing and Hunting Regulations - Valid September 1, 2007 through August 31, 2008 book.
> I even asked a Game Warden and he said he had never heard of it... Where is this in the regulation book? Can you point me to the page?


NOAA Fishery Bulletin FB08-006 - January 29, 2008
http://sero.nmfs.noaa.gov/bulletins/pdfs/2008/FB08-006%20A27_14%20final%20rule%20v2-1.pdf
Requires the use of venting tools, dehooking devices, and non-stainless steel circle hooks (when using natural baits) for all reef fish​


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## rebelangler (May 21, 2004)

if you read that link the circle hooks dont go into effect until 6/1/08 for rec fisherman


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## BigMikes809 (Oct 23, 2005)

Once I was Bear Hunting in in So Cal. A Sherif Lt came after us and was trying about the same thing. Saying that the property we were hunting was private and posted. I told him he was confused. Not that funny to him for some reason. So he makes us leave our dogs and go to get them as they came off the property. For the rest of the day he harassed us.
Then I found out he and his brother were hunting the same property and they did get a book bear and nice deer out of this orchard.
Maybe something like that this time.
All the cabins getting broke into and these two nut jobs didn't even call the game warden like we asked.
He didn't notice the ID in my pocket. Sheriff Dept Search and Rescue. So I told several of his friends that I was thinking of filling a hunter harassment complaint on him. I should have.
I think that in this case you may have a simular complaint with the police. I don't know if you have hunter harassment laws in Texas.


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## Fishhog (Jan 10, 2005)

*Dropping the dime on you by your peers..*

Thats how the process is suppose to work. Somebody (rat) thought you were poaching all that snapper.

Learn from this.

Mind your own business, keep chatter to a minimum, when asked if fish are biting just say NO, trust no one, and for heavens sake take a kid fishing before we lose the right to keep snapper.....


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## mrsh978 (Apr 24, 2006)

sounds like he was taking after the gw's in wilacy county-port mansfeild. absolutely over the limit with common decency. they must have missed the class on public satisfaction.


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## Unbound (Jul 12, 2004)

Sorry to hear that you had a bad experience. Surprised as well. Still, I'm glad to hear that citizens, police, and TPWD can work together. 

There are sportsfishermen who will fish fed water and claim fish were caught in state and TPWD did cite ease of enforcement as a consideration when looking to align with federal regs. Even if it means getting hassled at the dock, I'll take the extended season and more aggressive enforcement any day. It is wrong to be treated rudely, but it would also be wrong if they didn't investigate or if a concerned citizen decided not to get involved. Like rough weather or gas prices, chalk it up as part of the trip. 

As already mentioned, hope they start checking the comms just as aggressively.

Thanks for the heads up and congrats on a great catch.


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## mrsh978 (Apr 24, 2006)

i will clarify-this winter i got the same going over for having just one 34'" snapper in my cooler when i got back to the dock in pm. they took my boat apart looking for fillets- i caught it on the first drop and decided to take a easy ride home with just one fish. i needed no more meat and could not see the need to damage more just for fun. he looked at my electronics and i showed him my spot. still got the going over.


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## Swells (Nov 27, 2007)

Hey Formula4Fish I'm not going to give you the red but if circle hooks and venting tools and such are needed in Texas waters, they must be published in the _Texas Register_ by the TPWD. Texas did not adopt the NMFS regulations for red snapper.

If there is some kind of confusion on my part, I would think it is a disservice by TPWD to not inform the good people of Texas what the requirements are for fishing red snapper within State Waters and what gear can and must be used.

I'd like a ruling from the TPWD on that issue because something makes me think it doesn't apply until you go out more than 9 miles. Now if you fish federal waters and come back with snapper but no circle hooks or venting tools, I can understand that ... but we need better communication here.


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## Formula4Fish (Apr 24, 2007)

Come to think of it Swells, I don't think Texas cares what you catch them with. I just posted a link to the only thing I've heard about it.

Ever so grateful you didn't give me a red


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## Snagged (May 21, 2004)

Swells,
That is FEDERAL.


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## dogonefishin (Apr 8, 2005)

look under the whats new pages in the 2007/2008 TPW handbook. the actual publication says circle hooks for red snapper when using natural bait. For some reason it does not come up in the online edition


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## Hughoo222 (Aug 24, 2005)

I don't think I should get paid for doing the right thing, and I despise fish thieves. I actually still have the wardens cell number in my phone for any future outlaw encounters, he called me one evening after the bust and we had a good chat. I would not mess around in the POC, Palacios, Matagorda offshore area if I were a commercial snapper fisherman.



Ragman said:


> _"why decline the money?????"_
> 
> Principle.


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## Hughoo222 (Aug 24, 2005)

Jim Smarr and I spent a bit of time in Austin before the TPW commission to lobby for these changes, we did this quietly in 2006-2007 as we already felt at the time there would be a showdown over state waters vs federal waters. Everyone else was still screaming at the feds in Washington and we figured we better start helping fortify Texas for down the road, I am glad we did. Here is a portion of the press release, read it and know the NEW laws for TEXAS.:smile:

April 9, 2007
TPW commission approved changes in fishing regulations, including:
--Increasing the minimum length limit for sheepshead from the current 12 inches to 15 inches, in increments of 1 inch per year. This would, by 2010, allow all retained fish to have reproduced at least once.
--Implementing a "no-take" rule for Diamondback terrapins. The rule would exempt permitted non-game dealers and collectors.
--Raising the minimum size limit on tarpon from 80 inches to 85 inches. In an earlier proposal, two options were considered: raising the minimum size to 90 inches, or implementing a purely catch and release fishery for tarpon in Texas. TPWD biologists worked with Jerry Ault, Ph.D., a University of Miami expert on tarpon, to instead arrive at an 85-inch minimum that would allow Texas anglers a shot at setting a new state record but would still provide significant conservation benefits. McKinney told commissioners that, eventually, catch and release would be proposed, but that it would be most effective if regulations are standardized in other Gulf states and Mexico.
--Requiring the use of circle hooks when fishing for red snapper and maintaining the current 15-inch minimum size limit and a year-round season in state waters. Commissioners also approved the publication of a proposal to consider delegating rule-making authority with regard to red snapper to the TPWD executive director so the department could respond to changes in federal regulations more quickly. This proposal will come before the Commission for approval at the May meeting.
--Enhancing the ability of Texas enforcement officials to prosecute cases in Texas courts by adding language in the Statewide Hunting and Fishing proclamation mirroring federal rules for the red snapper commercial fishery individual fishing quota (IFQ) program. This will allow state officials to make state cases when the case would otherwise not meet the profile/economic level to warrant federal prosecution.
The commission also approved minor changes to "clean-up" current rules, including broadening the definition of what types of boats are prohibited from harassing fish; including language that makes it clear that coastal and salt waters mean the same thing; exempting offshore aquaculture operators from state bag and size limits as they land cultured fish; and allowing the use of freshwater catfish heads in crab traps.
The TPW Commission approved an Inland Fisheries recommendation increasing the possession limit for striped bass from 10 to 20 on Lake Texoma. The change would reduce angler confusion with respect to fish landed in Texas.
Also approved was a one-year extension of the current provision allowing the harvest of catfish by means of lawful archery equipment which includes crossbows. The department is still in the process of evaluating the impact of the regulation on catfish populations.
-30-



dogonefishin said:


> look under the whats new pages in the 2007/2008 TPW handbook. the actual publication says circle hooks for red snapper when using natural bait. For some reason it does not come up in the online edition


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## Swells (Nov 27, 2007)

Hey I got a weird question ... us people from South Padre are weird ... how do you tell a real circle hook anyways? I go to order online like Bass Pro and Cabelas and special makers and they seem to have a half dozen "modified" circle hooks. Some look like a J-hook with a curved shank. No problem, I like fishing circle hooks and have been stripping out old gear with trebles and straight hooks, but I wonder is some of these puppies would pass the test.

-thanks!


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## RockportRobert (Dec 29, 2006)

Regarding the original post, I'm with the wardens on this one.....who needs all of that innocent until *proven* guilty and burden of proof [email protected], anyway?!?!?


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## Crossroads (May 21, 2004)

If you have never had the misfortune of being falsely arrested for a felony and treated to the county's fine motel then you might be on the side of the game warden. But if you have been falsely arrested, you would possess a greater appreciation for the the burden of proof being on the state. They are public servants paid by tax dollars, they are not Rambo, and they don't need to be looking for someone to make their day. The TPWD has lots of decent people but they also have their share of a-holes that are fed cop wannabes. My last experience with those guys was not as bad as yours but unpleasant nonetheless.


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## Leemo (Nov 16, 2006)

Swells said:


> Hey I got a weird question ... us people from South Padre are weird ... how do you tell a real circle hook anyways? I go to order online like Bass Pro and Cabelas and special makers and they seem to have a half dozen "modified" circle hooks. Some look like a J-hook with a curved shank. No problem, I like fishing circle hooks and have been stripping out old gear with trebles and straight hooks, but I wonder is some of these puppies would pass the test.
> 
> -thanks!


Order from Memphis Net & Twine, Mustad 10/o or 11/o, I like the offset, strong sharp hooks, it's what we've always used, you'll like em'....


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## CoastalOutfitters (Aug 20, 2004)

still curious who turned you in and why ?

the rest sounds pretty normal...


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## Buda Blue Water Boy (May 24, 2004)

*A day to remember.........*

He did not give me the name of who turned us in, nor would I expect him too, it would be very unprofessional. We had several people ask us about the catch, and somebody either did not believe us, or had a bad day and wanted to make sure others had a bad day also!!!

It was an unpleasant experience because we had 2 police cars and later the gw along with a group of people looking at us as if we had done something wrong!!! I am not sure if there is anything that could have been done differently. And the Police were there because it was going to take the gw an hour or so to get there, and we would have been gone by then.

I am all for enforcement of the regulations, and the point of my post was more for the purpose of informing everybody of what can happen!!!
Life goes on, we came-out of it "not guilty" and still had a spectacular fishing trip, and now even have more of a memory and story!!!


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## IBreeling (Feb 27, 2008)

Ive got a similar story that occurred sometime back. As a coastal native, I got stationed in El Paso, Texas as a Border Patrol Agent. Out in the desert there's plenty of beach with no water but I still had a boat. I trailered a 21 Cajun to Lake Elephant Butte in New Mexico(3 hour trip) for stripers, whitebass and what ever took a lure. On one of my vactions, I trailer by boat back home. It took me while but I made it. I made trip to Rockport and fished the Estes flats (waited all year to make the trip home to Corpus). My brother and best friend accompanied me on that Rockport trip. While fishing, we kept hearing a boat running WOT and stopping almost every minute or two. I finally got a glimpse of the boat with my binos. The guy on the boat was also looking at me with his binos. I think he found what he was looking for and made a B-line to towards us. He passed a bunch of other boats to get to me. When he got to us, first thing first, he checked the fish box and safety gear. He then got personal and started to ask "where ya boyz from questions". I smiled and told him that I ask those questions too! When he got to me, he asked what was I doing here in Rockport. I answered "fishing". Then he got to the boat and my truck questions(matching boat color red and red Chevy 4X4) and asked me for my ID. He never asked for my fishing license. He backed Off when I showed him my Texas ID and my Federal Agent credentials. I told him that I was from Corpus and that I was stationed in El Paso visiting family on my vacation. I then asked him how come he passed all the other boats in the water just to get to me. He couldn't answer. After he left, he backed tracked at a much slower pace and checked the other boats. When I got to the docks, a couple of nosy people asked me if the GW checked me. I told them yep! that GW was really working hard to find me. A guide that I wont mentioned his name said "we sent him out after you". "A boy like you with a fancy boat and truck is up to no good". I replied "This boy got-za reel good job"! 
I guess when I showed up at the docks at Palm Harbor I wasnt welcome. The ruddnes was easily felt from the bait shop people. That very same guide gave me the stare down. After my trip, my brother and best friend said it was pretty low of those people to be like that. I havent been back to Palm Harbor since (16 years). Bad feelins


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## Dean'O (Jun 22, 2005)

Man - between these things and new regulations I am just about ready to give it up. It is already not worth the cost -to me, there does not seem to be any shortages of snapper out there. I mean, I went after Grouper but couldnt keep the snapper off the line. I ended up feeding more snapper to the porpus (not intentionally) than if I could have just kept a 4 fish limit (federal water) and came in a happy camper. 

With fuel cost going through the roof - and unknown regulation risk - and harassment by wardens - and known restrictions - where is our individual freedom and rights gone... Makes me sick thinking about it... It is getting to the point where you will have to have a degree or something to keep up with all of this..


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## mredman1 (Feb 4, 2007)

*Game Wardens*

Just to avoid possible conflict, my brother in St. Louis decided to cancel his plans to go offshore fishing with me in May and instead will visit in June. I don't want to get caught 9.1 miles offshore fishing for red snapper so will play it on the safe side.

Mike


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## MB (Mar 6, 2006)

I believe this.......

If this someone was is sure that you have broken the law ( IE had illegal snapper ), and is entitled to some monetary reward for turning you in, and they were wrong...........

They should be jailed and you should get the reward.

Falsely accusing someone of a crime should be a crime.

It's Slanderous for sure.

If you like I'll give you the number to a PI that can find out who called the GW on you..

*MB*


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## Coastal Whaler (Dec 28, 2005)

Hughoo222 said:


> Jim Smarr and I spent a bit of time in Austin before the TPW commission to lobby for these changes, we did this quietly in 2006-2007 as we already felt at the time there would be a showdown over state waters vs federal waters. Everyone else was still screaming at the feds in Washington and we figured we better start helping fortify Texas for down the road, I am glad we did. Here is a portion of the press release, read it and know the NEW laws for TEXAS.:smile:
> 
> April 9, 2007
> TPW commission approved changes in fishing regulations, including:
> ...


Why would you need to lobby quietly unless you were up to whatever you were up to.


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## TripleGrip (Oct 18, 2007)

man all of this is so sad and we as sportsman put so much money into our sport so sad


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## bone (May 28, 2004)

so, me being out of this offshore fishing for 2yrs, i'm seeing that i need circle hooks only for bottom fishing with bait and a ventalating(sp?) tool. what else is needed to harvest a couple of snaps. is there a permit or something? also where do i buy a ventalting tool at?? 

also if i us some jigs that i put some bait on do they have to be circle hook jigs. if i pull into the dock with snaps and jigs(j hooks) on my poles with left over bait will i get a fine. this is all to confusing. i need help.

bone


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## cabolew (Aug 12, 2005)

Excellent questions bone. I have yet to see a venting tool for sale in any tackle shops.


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## capn_billl (Sep 12, 2007)

This used to be a free country. Not far from here, there is a country where you can be shot for just owning a boat. It will only get worse as long as we keep giving these beaurocrats more money and more power. And as long as most voters look to the government to solve all of their problems.


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## Swells (Nov 27, 2007)

Not sure about what is an acceptable ventilating tool but the locals and charter boys have a fillet knife or ice pick to pop the air bladder if it's sticking outside the fish's mouth. The fish can't get down with a full air bladder and the small puncture heals quickly. Give 'em a little pop. Just for the throw-backs. 

With only two federal snappies at 16 us recs will really be needing one of these here popping devices!


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## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

The best ventaliting device is the syringe for the injectable marinades. The needle comes off and can be stored inside the tube when not in use.


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## Batboy0068 (Oct 10, 2006)

crazy tree huggers. get sick of all this not like you were over your limit.


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## Formula4Fish (Apr 24, 2007)

Swells said:


> Not sure about what is an acceptable ventilating tool but the locals and charter boys have a fillet knife or ice pick to pop the air bladder if it's sticking outside the fish's mouth. The fish can't get down with a full air bladder and the small puncture heals quickly. Give 'em a little pop. Just for the throw-backs.
> 
> With only two federal snappies at 16 us recs will really be needing one of these here popping devices!


TP&W is specific about an ice pick NOT being acceptable, issuing the caveat that the puncturing tool must be hollow to allow the air to escape.


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## Swells (Nov 27, 2007)

Cool, I just haven't seen any in the stores I shop ... does a company or two actually make these ventilators or is this just another beaurocratic nightmare?


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## Angler 1 (Apr 27, 2005)

I guess a needle in a boat rocking around is a great new safety tool we all need. Don't worry about sticking your hand, just make sure you vent that fish correctly.


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## doc-atwood (Jun 29, 2004)

*Burden of Proof*



ACbob said:


> Regarding the original post, I'm with the wardens on this one.....who needs all of that innocent until *proven* guilty and burden of proof [email protected], anyway?!?!?


Guilty until proven innocent? Come on. This America not North Korea.


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## boomboom (Jan 3, 2006)

Swells said:


> Not sure about what is an acceptable ventilating tool but the locals and charter boys have a fillet knife or ice pick to pop the air bladder if it's sticking outside the fish's mouth. The fish can't get down with a full air bladder and the small puncture heals quickly. Give 'em a little pop. Just for the throw-backs.
> 
> With only two federal snappies at 16 us recs will really be needing one of these here popping devices!


I've always heard to NOT stick what's protruding from the mouth, that is the stomach. The proper place is 1-2 inches behind the pectoral fin.


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## Snap Draggin (Nov 11, 2007)

I like that turkey injector idea, especially about storing it. Does anyone have an actual diagram showing where to ventilate the fish? I/we have caught large Redfish that the bladder has inflated, but I have never seen it on Red Snapper. I usually just throw the Reds down head first and they swim off OK. Maybe I am wrong on that, but I am not too sure. I mostly fish in water less than 50' and I guess that is why the snapper do not have the bladders inflated.


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## boomboom (Jan 3, 2006)

To vent hold the fish gently but firmly on its right side







and insert the venting tool at a 45 degree angle at the base of the pectoral fin. Only insert the tool deep enough to release gases, do not skewer the fish! The sound of escaping gas is audible and deflation is noticeable. If a fish is extremely bloated, use a free hand to exert gentle pressure on the fish's abdomen to aid deflation.

Return the fish to water as son as possible. If the fish requires resuscitation, revive it by holding the head pointed downward and move the fish back and forth to pass water over the gills until the fish is able to swim unassisted. The tool needs to be regularly cleaned. Use a a piece of wire for clogs and chlorine bleach to disinfect after every use. Be sure to keep the cap on when not in use to prevent personal


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## jim smarr (May 21, 2004)

*Quietly Lobby*



Coastal Whaler said:


> Why would you need to lobby quietly unless you were up to whatever you were up to.


We felt we needed to stop Commercial Fishing in Texas Territorial Waters. Gamefish status would have been difficult. We would have had to introduce a bill in the Texas Legislature and fight it out. We could ask for a simple bag limit change and reduce the limit to equal recreational bag limits which are 4 fish per man not 2000 pounds at the time we did it. There were scoping meetings in full view of the public.

We asked to scope circle hooks for use as a conservation move to avoid gut hooking undersized fish. We did this in full view and there were scoping meetings.

We asked for the Federal Laws to be placed in the State Statues for penalties involving the new Commercial IFG violations. State Game Wardens now would have the ability to file the same cases in State Courts to avoid cases being thrown out of Federal Courts for Commercial Violations. These rule changes were done via scoping in full view of the public.

Venting and Turtle tires were Fed rules via the Gulf Council. We had nothing to do with those changes. Ms. Coleman managed to get these issues pushed through for her husband as she was and still is a Member of the Gulf Coast Council. Charlie believes venting helps. I have seen studies that show the fish die vented or not. They may go down but injured they don't last long in the marine environment giving off a distressed signal.

We believe the rule changes we made were good ones for Recreational Anglers.


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## Swells (Nov 27, 2007)

One ole boy had what looked like an ice pick but slotted like a knife gutter, half a hole kinda. And yeah he went through the tummy not the bladder hangin' out the mouth. I only saw two or three cap'ns do like that ever in all my years on the Gulf ... is that the right way for real? 

I'm always learning', bruddas and sistahs. Shoot me if I say I know it all!
-swells


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## Snagged (May 21, 2004)

Swells said:


> One ole boy had what looked like an ice pick but slotted like a knife gutter, half a hole kinda. And yeah he went through the tummy not the bladder hangin' out the mouth. I only saw two or three cap'ns do like that ever in all my years on the Gulf ... is that the right way for real?
> 
> I'm always learning', bruddas and sistahs. Shoot me if I say I know it all!
> -swells


http://isurus.mote.org/research/cfe/fish-bio/how-to-vent-a-fish.htm


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## Phantom Fisherman (Mar 28, 2005)

Snagged,

Thanks for the link. I have seen too many deckhands poke a snappers protruding stomach thinking they were deflating the swim bladder. They meant well but a hole in the stomach does not give a fish much chance for survival. I'm going to take a couple of horse syringe needles with me on my next trip and vent properly.

Phantom Fisherman


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## boomboom (Jan 3, 2006)

http://isurus.mote.org/research/cfe/fish-bio/how-to-vent-a-fish.htm

You can read about venting here and they even have a video of how to do it.


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## Swells (Nov 27, 2007)

jim smarr said:


> Venting and Turtle tires were Fed rules via the Gulf Council. We had nothing to do with those changes. Ms. Coleman managed to get these issues pushed through for her husband as she was and still is a Member of the Gulf Coast Council. Charlie believes venting helps. I have seen studies that show the fish die vented or not. They may go down but injured they don't last long in the marine environment giving off a distressed signal.


I look forward to the next Texas legislative session. Primaries are tommorow, elections in November, real bidness starts in early January.

But that venting, Jim, we would get fish over 100 feet deep and you could poke them poor snappas all over or just right, they wouldn't make it overboard more than 25 feet before they were gobbled up. I mean get real the only thing worse than a shark circling under your boat is mama porpoise teaching her baby how to eat - and mama will run off the sharks if needed. The only difference between chum and a throw-back is the small snapper has more action for the predators, probably tastes better to them. How dumb is that?

Again thanks for doing what ya do and watching stuff for us.

-sammie


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## jim smarr (May 21, 2004)

*Deep water venting*

Fish vented once brought up from 100 ft plus are dead meat. A study was done off South Padre with 100% mortality years ago by a PhD crew. I wonder why they don't take that information into their rule making.

Venting in shallow water might be different in the East Gulf. The folks pushing venting instead of first fish rule are all East Gulf people. The bends kill fish just like people. The damage is done to internal organs so there is no reversing the damage by venting. Just a feel good move by the Feds.


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## Snagged (May 21, 2004)

Jim,
Someone posted a drawing of a weighted J-hook arangement that could be used to force an undersized snapper to the bottom, this had to be a couple of years ago. Perchance do you remember it?

BTW: Using very large circle hooks and baits will help to avoid catching undersized snapper.


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## jim smarr (May 21, 2004)

Window weights , venting nor vudo will not reverse the bends. Once the internal damage is done it is fatal. Larger hooks will help as you said avoid the little snapper and reduce regulatory discard deaths.


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## Swells (Nov 27, 2007)

Many of us have been using circle hooks for years just because a lip hook is easier to get out than a gut hook when you're out in the briny playing with the bottom fishies. Good move and use bigger baits but that venting is a bunch of Mickey Mouse, IMHO. Repeal it? What a mess!
/sammie


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## Snagged (May 21, 2004)

Swells,
I think all fishermen know venting doesn't work, but the paper pushers won't change their pea sized minds easily.


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## Snap Draggin (Nov 11, 2007)

boomboom said:


> To vent hold the fish gently but firmly on its right side
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you very much. I seem to get conflicting opinions on this venting. Does it really work? Is there solid proof that it does if so, or is just more regs forced upon us from the illustrious bureaucracy?


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## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

If I remember correctly, the venting and hook changes added about 10% to the TAC last time around. It definately works if done correctly in the shallower waters.


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## Snap Draggin (Nov 11, 2007)

Mont said:


> If I remember correctly, the venting and hook changes added about 10% to the TAC last time around. It definately works if done correctly in the shallower waters.


Thanks a lot. I might try it on Redfish and Drum since they are the only ones we catch that the bladders have been inflated. We have caught some wall hanger Red and Black Drum out there while snapper fishing. Some of the reds are over 40", and a couple blacks were over 36". We never weighed any of them, but all the ones we catch have the bladders inflated, even the smaller ones. They swim very quickly to the bottom when we put them back. Would it be a good idea to ventilate them or just keep doing what we are doing? I have never seen any float up or not be able to swim back down.


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## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

We always vent the drum too. Also, put them back in head first so they get a good running start. Depending upon the gear you use on drum, they may be coming in more slowly than the smaller snapper are. I have as much fun with them as I do the snapper. They get so thick sometimes they are almost a pest though.


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## Snap Draggin (Nov 11, 2007)

Yeah, we always throw the red and black drum down head first to give them a running start. They definitely can be a pest at times. Especially when you hook a large one and think you have a monster snapper. Then you reel it up and it is a red or black drum. They fight hard, but they have to go back in the water. With that said I want to make sure they live and are not harmed in any way.


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## tamu06 (Dec 16, 2005)

They (game wardens) do have jurisdiction past 9nm...If I am not mistaken they hold dual commissioning???



Gethookedadventures said:


> its may be a rookie warden trying to make a name for himself had that experince once stoped me 22 miles offshore and informed me he was going to check my snapper i said go for it bro! i thought i was legal well i had two slide up under the ice and i messed up on my count somewhere. he told me i had two over my limit and he was going to write me a ticket for it. i said ok but do you realize you have no juristiction out here your in federal waters. he made a phone call on the sat phone and said your absolutly right have a nice day sir! so need less to say i gave him to snapper and told him enjoy his dinner!


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## Dutch Treat (May 21, 2004)

tamu06 said:


> They (game wardens) do have jurisdiction past 9nm...If I am not mistaken they hold dual commissioning???


You are correct. Shortly after 9-11 they were commissioned as federal wardens in addition to their state commissions.

Anyone stopped by them in federal waters had best be polite. :smile: 
Bob


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## Buda Blue Water Boy (May 24, 2004)

*Venting*

Venting is very important when releasing a snapper!!! But make sure you understand that if you vent it and then put it in the box thinking you have outsmarted the game wardens, you are playing right into their hands. Not sure of the depth that the bladder expands, but the game warden told me that day that is one of the ways they can tell if you caught them in State waters or not. When you vent the fish, the bladder will decompress, but the sack will still be in the back of the fishes mouth, just decompressed when you put them in the box!!!

With all the commotion that is going on right now with Red snapper, I would be very careful!!!


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## Bill Fisher (Apr 12, 2006)

Buda Blue Water Boy said:


> With all the commotion that is going on right now with Red snapper, I would be very careful!!!


careful about what?....... breaking the law?

is that what your 'heads up' tip was about?

anyone breaking the law don't deserve no 'tips' imo


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## Bill Fisher (Apr 12, 2006)

Buda Blue Water Boy said:


> make sure you understand that if you vent it and then put it in the box thinking you have outsmarted the game wardens, you are playing right into their hands. ------>
> With all the commotion that is going on right now with Red snapper, I would be very careful!!!


careful about what?....... breaking the law?

is that what your 'heads up' tip was about?

anyone breaking the law don't deserve no 'tips' imo

but you go on and continue being careful now ya hear.......
BOL on not getting caught


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## Bill Fisher (Apr 12, 2006)

Bill Fisher said:


> careful about what?....... breaking the law?


BBWB,...... tell ya what.......... disregard that last post o'mine cuz it was just my intitial knee-jerk reaction to anything having to do with illegal activities

i re-read your post and it was really nothing more than a warning to those that WOULD participate in illegal activities......... sorry i misdirected my disdain fer sech at you

and danged that snagged dude for pointing out the flaw in your post 

(the whole thing oughta be wiped out clean back up to your post iffin you could get a mod to do that and that snagged dude would agree, imo)

maybe it coulda helped a few think twice before robbing our resources, but we're not talkin'bout folk with a lotta conscience here ya know


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## fishedz (Sep 5, 2004)

What I'm talkin' 'bout 'zacly brotha ! I menz huh ?


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## jdipper1 (Jul 18, 2007)

When you pull a fish or person up too fast in 30 ft of water you will cause MAJOR PROBLEMS if they were at that depth or lower for a while. Let the Game Warden look, an expanded bladder only means they were pulled up too fast. If you get a fish started to the surface quickly, you only need 10 feet.


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## Buda Blue Water Boy (May 24, 2004)

*Not a Problem!!!*

Bill,

Life is too short to hold a grudge!!! I appreciate your 2nd post!!! My whole purpose for this post was to make sure if anybody out there plans on catching snapper in Federal waters, (Law Breakers), and the GW pulls them over, they will know!!!


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