# officer shot at sante fe high school



## oc48 (Aug 13, 2005)

we just got word from a police officer friend of ours that a shooter shot an officer at the Sante Fe high school just a little bit earlier this morning. 

sending prayers to the students and teachers!


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## CORNHUSKER (Jul 12, 2004)

Heard the same thing.


Prayers Up!!!


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## TIMBOv2 (Mar 18, 2010)

Just heard about the shots fired on 26 news. Didnâ€™t hear about officer getting shot though.
Yep they just said an officer was down.
Prayers to all involved.


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## CORNHUSKER (Jul 12, 2004)

Even Dickinson HS is in lock down/protect mode now.


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## bwguardian (Aug 30, 2005)

Heard on scanner 5 students and 2 officers...suspect in custody...


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## steve holchak (May 18, 2012)

Hwy 6 closed


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## bubbas kenner (Sep 4, 2010)

Dear God be with them


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## 348473 (Apr 12, 2017)

Yeah I have a very good friend who is a teacher there. She texted me some things about it as I was driving in to work. She can't wait for this year to end. Praying she is out or safe or locked in her classroom. pipebombs involved as well. WTH


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## LIVIN (Oct 31, 2006)

Wow, this really hits close to home.
About 1/2 the families on my sons baseball team live in Santa Fe and some of their kids go to the high school.
If anyone has any further info on this it would be appreciated.


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## Bozo (Jun 16, 2004)

Terrible news.


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## TIMBOv2 (Mar 18, 2010)

Just heard it was a football player that shot a girl first and supposedly 3 students lives have been taken and the officer getting shot. Havenâ€™t heard anything else about the officer.
Sad,sad,sad.


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## 200ZX (Dec 14, 2009)

Prayers for everyone involved.


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## BullyARed (Jun 19, 2010)

Local channels keep showing a man with a gun, an American flag, and MAGA hat. The POS liberal MSM will take advantage of this! If one does this, dress professionally and skip the hat or any political logo. Don't give the POS liberal MSM any opportunity to twist the story. Image does make difference! But again, why doing this for giving liberal MSM the opportunity to twist and manipulate! The police are all there already!


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## bayourat (Jan 7, 2005)

BullyARed said:


> Local channels keep showing a man with a gun, an American flag, and MAGA hat. The POS liberal MSM will take advantage of this! If one does this, dress professionally and skip the hat or any political logo. Don't give the POS liberal MSM any opportunity to twist the story. Image does make difference!


They shouldn't be interviewing and baiting these kids....


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## Mr. Breeze (Jan 6, 2005)

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/po...of-gunfire/ar-AAxt3Em?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=U219DHP


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

Prayers go out to students, teachers, and families involved. Things like this affect many people that may not even be involved in the situation. It is very sad.


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## Fishing Logic (Aug 25, 2005)

BullyARed said:


> Local channels keep showing a man with a gun, an American flag, and MAGA hat. The POS liberal MSM will take advantage of this! If one does this, dress professionally and skip the hat or any political logo. Don't give the POS liberal MSM any opportunity to twist the story. Image does make difference! But again, why doing this for giving liberal MSM the opportunity to twist and manipulate! The police are all there already!


Yup looking at channel 2 live on phone. Preying on parents for a story. Sickening and the guy you mention said he has been a Texan for 2 years... wth?


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## 98aggie77566 (Jul 7, 2009)

News reporting at least 8 fatalities...not sure if true.

Prayers for all involved.


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## JOHNNY QUEST (Mar 6, 2006)

Sad. If the little nutcase knew Mr Jones the PE teacher and assorted other staff were carrying this would not happen. Prayers for everyone involved.


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## dk2429 (Mar 27, 2015)

Pass by there every day going to work. Scary deal. Prayers out


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## bluefin (Aug 16, 2005)

So sad and so close to end of school too. Prayers for all those affected.


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## pocjetty (Sep 12, 2014)

Body count up to 8 now.

Another guy came in and started shooting up a Trump hotel.


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## 2hotrodz (Jun 19, 2016)

Good grief, WTH is wrong with people?


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## Mr. Breeze (Jan 6, 2005)

Prayers for the family's and all involved. God Bless.


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## Cut n Shoot (Dec 11, 2015)

Kid was wearing a trench coat ? Hiding a shotgun? Not suspicious at all.


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## Friendswoodmatt (Feb 22, 2005)

man this is terrible


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## BullyARed (Jun 19, 2010)

It seems most or all school shootings occurred just before school starts. Should we have armed guards or LEO patrol the school halls and ground between 7:30AM and 9:00AM? and stay close to the fire alarms.


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## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

Sounds like a dumped or jealous boyfriend to me. Saddens me because I grew up there. These kids nowdays are a strange bunch.


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## Mr. Breeze (Jan 6, 2005)

Does Hooked Up "Guy" still live in that area?


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## hoosierplugger (May 24, 2004)

So sad, prayers.


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## LIVIN (Oct 31, 2006)

Shame on the newscaster that is interviewing that poor Mom whoâ€™s daughter was in the actual classroom and has still not heard from her.


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## DA REEL DADDY (Jun 7, 2005)

My heart goes out to all. Just sad. Said a prayer.


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## Trouthappy (Jun 12, 2008)

Mix a sick society with 320 million guns, and people will get shot. Lots of them.


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## fishinguy (Aug 5, 2004)

sad deal, I really hate that these things happen.


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## Reel Time (Oct 6, 2009)

9 now dead. (According to Click2)


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## redexpress (Apr 5, 2010)

May 16:
The Liberty school board adopted whatâ€™s called guardian plan procedures that will allow specified district employees to carry a firearm on school property. That unanimous decision by LISD trustees followed a lengthy executive session during last nightâ€™s regular meeting. Brandon Davis serves as the Liberty ISDâ€™s legal counsel. He and Liberty school district officials declined comment on the specifics of the new plan, citing safety concerns and the need for confidentiality when it comes to school security planning. However, the districtâ€™s legal counsel said anyone who is authorized to carry a weapon must have a concealed handgun license as well as other designated training.


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## Bozo (Jun 16, 2004)

A kid just interviewed on abc13 said that he saw the shooter enter the art classroom wearing a trench coat and combat boots. He heard the shots and hid in a bathroom nearby for a short while and then escaped when a teacher told them to make a run for it.


He said the suspected shooter, that he saw wearing the trench coat, was bullied by the coaching staff regularly and by other students as well. Also that recently he was known to have a short fuse and become irate at the drop of a hat which caused more bullying and more people to withdraw and not be friends with him. 



If true, and the coaches were bullying this kid instead of mentoring him and seeking help for him, that is horrible. I know that it is just an accusation, but the kid being interviewed seemed sincere and not of the snowflake variety. Who knows though.


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## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

Society is failing. I don't know the answer, but mental health issues seem rampant.


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## jackcu (Dec 28, 2004)

LIVIN said:


> Shame on the newscaster that is interviewing that poor Mom whoâ€™s daughter was in the actual classroom and has still not heard from her.


The Reporters on scene are just horrible. Reporting on stuff not confirmed, asking one student "how do you move on from here?", just stupid questions. The media is just a joke at all levels.


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## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

jackcu said:


> The Reporters on scene are just horrible. Reporting on stuff not confirmed, asking one student "how do you move on from here?", just stupid questions. The media is just a joke at all levels.


I agree with that for sure.


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## Walkin' Jack (May 20, 2004)

Too close to home!! 9 confirmed dead numerous injured. Info is still coming in but they have one person in custody and one is "detained" Prayers for the victims, their families and friends.


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## SpikeMike (May 16, 2007)

bomb technicians at someone's house nearby now.


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## SwampRat (Jul 30, 2004)

What a horrible day....Prayers out to those kids and families whose lives were forever changed.

This ain't how it's supposed to be.


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## Rubberback (Sep 9, 2008)

Sad sad deal! Prayers sent.If I was young again it would sure make me think about not having children these days.


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## Mad Mike (Dec 28, 2005)

This is terrible, prayers for all involved.


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## The1ThatGotAway (Jun 24, 2009)

I guess weâ€™re homeschooling next year. Thank God itâ€™s just one more year


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## jackcu (Dec 28, 2004)

The1ThatGotAway said:


> I guess weâ€™re homeschooling next year. Thank God itâ€™s just one more year


We are in the same boat. One more year. My kid is terrified.


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## tngbmt (May 30, 2004)

sending mine to college next year .. yet i don't feel any better
too close .. a prayer for guidance


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## jpayne (Jan 11, 2017)

Shooting and a bomb. Terrible feeling.


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## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

From a news feed... The suspect in custody was identified as Dimitrios Pagourtzis, 17, of Santa Fe, according to law enforcement sources.


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## essayons75 (May 15, 2006)

Haute Pursuit said:


> From a news feed... The suspect in custody was identified as Dimitrios Pagourtzis, 17, of Santa Fe, according to law enforcement sources.





http://imgur.com/Vp57hiW


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## BullyARed (Jun 19, 2010)

^^^
http://nypost.com/2018/05/18/texas-high-school-shooting-suspect-identified/



Bozo said:


> A kid just interviewed on abc13 said that he saw the shooter enter the art classroom wearing a trench coat and combat boots. He heard the shots and hid in a bathroom nearby for a short while and then escaped when a teacher told them to make a run for it.
> 
> He said the suspected shooter, that he saw wearing the trench coat, *was bullied by the coaching staff regularly and by other students as well*. Also that recently he was known to have a short fuse and become irate at the drop of a hat which caused more bullying and more people to withdraw and not be friends with him.
> 
> If true, and the coaches were bullying this kid instead of mentoring him and seeking help for him, that is horrible. I know that it is just an accusation, but the kid being interviewed seemed sincere and not of the snowflake variety. Who knows though.


and this didn't raise any alarm, remember Parkland, FLA!


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## stammster - temporary (Jul 20, 2009)

https://www.google.com/amp/s/heavy.com/news/2018/05/dimitrios-pagourtzis/amp/


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## The1ThatGotAway (Jun 24, 2009)

jackcu said:


> We are in the same boat. One more year. My kid is terrified.


Seriously thinking about getting mine trained and arming her at 17yr old


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## Tortuga (May 21, 2004)

*live coverage*

https://www.aol.com/article/news/20...nd-in-texas-school-shooting-sheriff/23437927/


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## scwine (Sep 7, 2006)

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## Jamie (Aug 2, 2011)

Sympathies to those affected 

We have the technology to eliminate this

If I was King for a day, Iâ€™d make this the countryâ€™s top priority


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## jaime1982 (Aug 25, 2009)

Curious as to what technology you are referring to.


Jamie said:


> Sympathies to those affected
> 
> We have the technology to eliminate this
> 
> If I was King for a day, Iâ€™d make this the countryâ€™s top priority


Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## cklimpt (Jan 4, 2010)

Governor Abbott just confirmed 10 dead and 10 injured. RIP. Those kids will NEVER be the same.


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## Hayniedude24 (Jun 15, 2016)

Bozo said:


> A kid just interviewed on abc13 said that he saw the shooter enter the art classroom wearing a trench coat and combat boots. He heard the shots and hid in a bathroom nearby for a short while and then escaped when a teacher told them to make a run for it.
> 
> He said the suspected shooter, that he saw wearing the trench coat, was bullied by the coaching staff regularly and by other students as well. Also that recently he was known to have a short fuse and become irate at the drop of a hat which caused more bullying and more people to withdraw and not be friends with him.
> 
> If true, and the coaches were bullying this kid instead of mentoring him and seeking help for him, that is horrible. I know that it is just an accusation, but the kid being interviewed seemed sincere and not of the snowflake variety. Who knows though.


If absolutely true of the coaches there would be some serious altercations if one of those killed or injured were one of my kids. That's pretty dam bad if it was happening but I don't doubt that it did either. Prayers have been sent up for all those involved and now even that kid. Just saw a news feed of his home/beat down trailer and felt something right there as I know how mean some kids can be toward some who can't help how they're raised monitarily speaking.


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## 3GENTS_Fishing (May 16, 2014)

Dan Patrick said Santa Fe police chief pulled a wounded officer to safety and was able to return fire. The shooter intended to kill himself after the shooting but couldnâ€™t do it. He was injured in an exchange and surrendered.


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## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

Texashookset said:


> If absolutely true of the coaches there would be some serious altercations if one of those killed or injured were one of my kids. That's pretty dam bad if it was happening but I don't doubt that it did either. Prayers have been sent up for all those involved and now even that kid. Just saw a news feed of his home/beat down trailer and felt something right there as I know how mean some kids can be toward some who can't help how they're raised monitarily speaking.


If it's true, it will come out. I hope the little puke doesn't avoid the needle by claiming he is mentally ill. I don't care if he was hazed or not personally.


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## BullyARed (Jun 19, 2010)

If it wasn't for the two officers on site to intervene, the death toll could have been much higher.


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## wbay2crowded (Jul 13, 2007)

These "Academy Award" presentations by all the govt officials where they pat each other on the back are almost as stupid as the media dimwits asking the victims/family members how they "felt" after the mass shooting.


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## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

wbay2crowded said:


> These "Academy Award" presentations by all the govt officials where they pat each other on the back are almost as stupid as the media dimwits asking the victims/family members how they "felt" after the mass shooting.


Yep...


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## Hayniedude24 (Jun 15, 2016)

Haute Pursuit said:


> If it's true, it will come out. I hope the little puke doesn't avoid the needle by claiming he is mentally ill. I don't care if he was hazed or not personally.


Man I get that 100%, he deserves the needle but if others were involved in pushing this whack job then they need to pay up as well.


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## Momma's Worry (Aug 3, 2009)

*nessassery tight security .....*

one day I predict someone will step up with a plan and actually implement it to keep weapons and or armed perps out of, or gaining access to, soft target public schools .....then these type shootings will stop .....arming cops and teachers inside to confront once someone is in will not prevent these events from occurring,just merely add to the carnage....... they must not be allowed in at all ...with what ever means it takes .....the "how to" of tight security at a facility is not rocket science...it is well known by law enforcement...

D Law 
Liberty


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## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

Texashookset said:


> Man I get that 100%, he deserves the needle but if others were involved in pushing this whack job then they need to pay up as well.


Absolutely.


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## cklimpt (Jan 4, 2010)

Haute Pursuit said:


> If it's true, it will come out. I hope the little puke doesn't avoid the needle by claiming he is mentally ill. I don't care if he was hazed or not personally.


Being only 17, federal law won't allow him to be executed.


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## big john o (Aug 12, 2005)

The parents of the shooter should be held equally responsible and prosecuted.


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## The1ThatGotAway (Jun 24, 2009)

big john o said:


> The parents of the shooter should be held equally responsible and prosecuted.


I don't know about the parents... but whoever let him get his hands on the gun should get the needle laying next to him


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## Drundel (Feb 6, 2006)

Bozo said:


> A kid just interviewed on abc13 said that he saw the shooter enter the art classroom wearing a trench coat and combat boots. He heard the shots and hid in a bathroom nearby for a short while and then escaped when a teacher told them to make a run for it.
> 
> He said the suspected shooter, that he saw wearing the trench coat, was bullied by the coaching staff regularly and by other students as well. Also that recently he was known to have a short fuse and become irate at the drop of a hat which caused more bullying and more people to withdraw and not be friends with him.
> 
> If true, and the coaches were bullying this kid instead of mentoring him and seeking help for him, that is horrible. I know that it is just an accusation, but the kid being interviewed seemed sincere and not of the snowflake variety. Who knows though.


If that's true nothing has changed since the Columbine shooting.


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## redexpress (Apr 5, 2010)

Momma's Worry said:


> one day I predict someone will step up with a plan and actually implement it to keep weapons and or armed perps out of, or gaining access to, soft target public schools .....then these type shootings will stop .....arming cops and teachers inside to confront once someone is in will not prevent these events from occurring,just merely add to the carnage....... they must not be allowed in at all ...with what ever means it takes .....the "how to" of tight security at a facility is not rocket science...it is well known by law enforcement...
> 
> D Law
> Liberty


Yeah you would think good fences and badge controlled access with metal detectors would slow this down.


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## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

cklimpt said:


> Being only 17, federal law won't allow him to be executed.


Hopefully that changes where he can be tried as an adult.


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## SaltwaterSlick (Jun 11, 2012)

Lord God in Heaven, hear our prayer. We indeed seek Your face, and we seek Your guidance through the terrible state that we find ourselves in these days. We ask you to soften the hearts of the hardened and evil-doers, and soften the hearts that would be Your servants. We know that all of us were created in Your image and we know that Satan never stops in his efforts to take us from You. We ask You Lord to join our hearts and minds and give us wisdom in the right Way to go. Lord we ask You, please do not remove Your blessing from us and our country. Show us Your Ways, and teach us again right from wrong and put it in our hearts. We are Your people, and You are our God. Heal our Land oh Lord.
Lord, lay Your healing hand on this young man Clay that some of us know. Heal him and restore him to his family and friends. Give him strength to endure until he is fully restored. Heal his wounds. Heal him physically, mentally and spiritually and give him comfort in knowing that You Lord are his Protection and his Strength. Lord comfort his family and give them the strength and patience to minister to Clay as he recovers from his wounds. Lord, for those other students, faculty and police officers who were injured, please watch over them and heal their wounds inside and out. For those who were lost, Lord receive them unto Yourself that they may have eternal rest and peace. Comfort those families and strengthen the community as it gathers round those who have had loss. Strengthen them and hold them up and see them through this tragedy. As we move forward through the coming days, make them ever-mindful of Your presence and show them Your Agape Love with comfort, hope and peace as this community heals. Lord, I pray for the offenders in this horrible tragedy. I pray that they come to understand what they have done and turn from Satan and his evil. I pray that they too be healed. Lord the families of those who did this will need help too. I pray they receive it and are able to walk through this and be restored as well. It's hard Lord for me to not ask for revenge, but Lord we know clearly that vengeance is Yours and if You render it, it will be just. Your will in that Lord, I pray will be done.

Lord, for all those first responders and public servants, especially my friend Bobby Cana, I pray you watch over them and keep them all safe as they serve us and You. Give them strength and wisdom to move carefully to good outcomes in preventing further harm and tragedy, and to help them to determine the totality of the whole events and its perpetrators and bring them to justice within Your will. Watch over Bobby as he serves and comfort his wife. Thank You Lord for keeping their daughter safe and bringing her out whole. Heal her mentally and spiritually that she may be a source of strength for her friends and a source of pride for her parents.

Lord God, for those who are looking on and watching all this unfold, I pray that somehow they see You and what You are capable of in this tragedy. I pray for Your light on them as well that they come to know the Hope that is in us who know You.

Lord, guide us and direct us. Make us good stewards of all you bless us with, and help us to step out boldly with Your plan to end this in the name of Your Son, our Savior Jesus Christ, Amen.

Can we all be united in this plea??


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## SaltwaterSlick (Jun 11, 2012)

Something very sorely missing today...

Pro 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go, Even when he is old he will not depart from it.
Pro 22:15 Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child; The rod of discipline will remove it far from him. 

...and the reason it is missing is "the family" is missing. There is no honor or respect in this world today of things of God and His way. You put prayer and God back into schools the way our forefathers intended (freedom from gubment religion, not separation from religion and God) and within a generation, you will fix this problem. The exact opposite of what is happening in the muslim culture will happen in this country. Our kids will learn how to love and respect each other, not hate and kill each other and those who believe different than they do... It is important that our country return to its Judaeo-Christian roots, not some radical muslim or eastern culture. There is a difference... There is a war going on in this country and in fact in the world. If we the "silent majority" don't stand up soon, it will be too late...


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## Chuck06R1 (Apr 7, 2015)

The1ThatGotAway said:


> I don't know about the parents... but whoever let him get his hands on the gun should get the needle laying next to him


Supposedly his dad gave him the shotgun. No word on where he got the .38


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## Hayniedude24 (Jun 15, 2016)

SaltwaterSlick said:


> Lord God in Heaven, hear our prayer. We indeed seek Your face, and we seek Your guidance through the terrible state that we find ourselves in these days. We ask you to soften the hearts of the hardened and evil-doers, and soften the hearts that would be Your servants. We know that all of us were created in Your image and we know that Satan never stops in his efforts to take us from You. We ask You Lord to join our hearts and minds and give us wisdom in the right Way to go. Lord we ask You, please do not remove Your blessing from us and our country. Show us Your Ways, and teach us again right from wrong and put it in our hearts. We are Your people, and You are our God. Heal our Land oh Lord.
> Lord, lay Your healing hand on this young man Clay that some of us know. Heal him and restore him to his family and friends. Give him strength to endure until he is fully restored. Heal his wounds. Heal him physically, mentally and spiritually and give him comfort in knowing that You Lord are his Protection and his Strength. Lord comfort his family and give them the strength and patience to minister to Clay as he recovers from his wounds. Lord, for those other students, faculty and police officers who were injured, please watch over them and heal their wounds inside and out. For those who were lost, Lord receive them unto Yourself that they may have eternal rest and peace. Comfort those families and strengthen the community as it gathers round those who have had loss. Strengthen them and hold them up and see them through this tragedy. As we move forward through the coming days, make them ever-mindful of Your presence and show them Your Agape Love with comfort, hope and peace as this community heals. Lord, I pray for the offenders in this horrible tragedy. I pray that they come to understand what they have done and turn from Satan and his evil. I pray that they too be healed. Lord the families of those who did this will need help too. I pray they receive it and are able to walk through this and be restored as well. It's hard Lord for me to not ask for revenge, but Lord we know clearly that vengeance is Yours and if You render it, it will be just. Your will in that Lord, I pray will be done.
> 
> Lord, for all those first responders and public servants, especially my friend Bobby Cana, I pray you watch over them and keep them all safe as they serve us and You. Give them strength and wisdom to move carefully to good outcomes in preventing further harm and tragedy, and to help them to determine the totality of the whole events and its perpetrators and bring them to justice within Your will. Watch over Bobby as he serves and comfort his wife. Thank You Lord for keeping their daughter safe and bringing her out whole. Heal her mentally and spiritually that she may be a source of strength for her friends and a source of pride for her parents.
> ...


Yes sir we can.


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## cklimpt (Jan 4, 2010)

Chuck06R1 said:


> Supposedly his dad gave him the shotgun. No word on where he got the .38


ABC said the .38 belonged to his dad as well.


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## Lexy1 (Jul 12, 2012)

Thanks God, there is no AR involved in this shooting.
Btw, what if he stole (took it without his dad's knowledge) those guns, is his dad still be accountable for the son's action?


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## Won Hunglo (Apr 24, 2007)

This suck. Prayers to all affected in any way. As far as the coach bullying, it happens everyday in most schools. Coaches get a free pass. If you report it, you are black balled.


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## Tortuga (May 21, 2004)

Read that this is the 20th week of this year...and this is the 22nd school shooting of this year so far.. That's averaging over a school shooting a week..Somebody better come up with a solution of some kind or we are gonna lose this generation....or a big chunk of it.. to these nut cases....

As far as 'soft' targets go...schools are just one of them. We got churches, sporting events, concerts, etc...Whackos will just change venues. Wish to God I could come up with a feasible idea...but I'm running dry.... The answer has to be in home care..but how do you legislate that ??

Maybe we just gotta learn to live with it as the 'new norm'..:headknock


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## The1ThatGotAway (Jun 24, 2009)

Chuck06R1 said:


> Supposedly his dad gave him the shotgun. No word on where he got the .38


It may not be a popular idea, but my guns are locked up in a gun safe. My wife can't even open it. Having guns is our right, but being irresponsible with them is no different than driving drunk.


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## The1ThatGotAway (Jun 24, 2009)

Tortuga said:


> Read that this is the 20th week of this year...and this is the 22nd school shooting of this year so far.. That's averaging over a school shooting a week..Somebody better come up with a solution of some kind or we are gonna lose this generation....or a big chunk of it.. to these nut cases....
> 
> As far as 'soft' targets go...schools are just one of them. We got churches, sporting events, concerts, etc...Whackos will just change venues. Wish to God I could come up with a feasible idea...but I'm running dry.... The answer has to be in home care..but how do you legislate that ??
> 
> Maybe we just gotta learn to live with it as the 'new norm'..:headknock


You read a lie


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## Momma's Worry (Aug 3, 2009)

redexpress said:


> Yeah you would think good fences and badge controlled access with metal detectors would slow this down.


something kinda like at the Harris County Courthouse should work with limited access controlled/screened entry ports for all(military base style) and tall perimeter fence with razor wire.......equals no more school shootings

stand by...the left will have another field day with this as usual.....and accomplish nothing as usual....


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## Skifffer (Aug 11, 2016)

The1ThatGotAway said:


> You read a lie


I guess that depends what your definition is but if you want only shootings in which a student was injured/killed it's still 19. Which compares very unfavorably to other countries.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/02/us/school-shootings-2018-list-trnd/index.html


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## 98aggie77566 (Jul 7, 2009)

The1ThatGotAway said:


> It may not be a popular idea, but my guns are locked up in a gun safe. My wife can't even open it. Having guns is our right, but being irresponsible with them is no different than driving drunk.


Man....I'm struggling with this one.

I bought my son a shotgun for duck hunting on his birthday at 16.

I bought him a deer rifle last week for graduation.

Granted...I trust him...but how do you hold a parent responsible? Does that responsibility end at 18? If it were a 12 year old I get it.


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## Tortuga (May 21, 2004)

The1ThatGotAway said:


> You read a lie


Pretty damm close...

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/05/18/school-shootings-list-2018/623297002/


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## gbollom (Apr 16, 2012)

The1ThatGotAway said:


> You read a lie


Yes, make sure you read the parameters that the "statisticians" are using. They will usually use that stat as their headline to promote


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## Drrpm2004 (May 16, 2012)

It never fails, I honestly and truly hate seeing all these red flags after something like this happens, I mean come on! For example, if game wardens can pin point someone with an illegal deer/fish because he/she posted it online, why can't authorities snag these idiots before something like this happens again. The kid posted pictures on social media of a gun with a knife, shirt saying born to kill, wore a trench coat to school everyday even though it's 90 degrees outside. How many red flags does one need in order to do something. Normal people don't go around posting pictures online of their guns, I sure the heck don't and have to question why someone would? 
The guns apparently belonged to his father. Sorry to say but there is part of the problem as well. Obviously the parents aren't watching over the his well being or online activity and to be honest if my kid was wearing a trench coat everyday to school, we need to sit down and have a talk because that's just not normal. His guns obviously weren't locked up at home. Just like the previous poster said, I'm the only one with the combo to my safe, period!
Yes I have bought guns for my kids for Bdays, Xmas etc, But they only use them when I'm around and then they go right back in MY safe when we're done. Just because I purchased them a gun, doesn't mean that they can just keep it in their room or in their possession. It's technically still my weapon.
I 100% admit that if the teachers that are in question, actually were picking on this kid, they should be standing right next to him for all I care because that's BS.
Taking guns away will not fix this problem, last time I checked bad people are still bad people and they will always find a way to accomplish what they set out to do no matter what laws you have in place.
IMHO, with the number of students now, there shouldn't be 20 different entrances to any one school. All this does is fill the need for more police/guards and we just don't have that. There are too many schools and not enough hands as it is. Narrow this down, allow your teachers to carry if they choose to do so and that'll definitely be a starting point to help keep this sort of thing from always becoming a mass event to an isolated incident. I'm the first to stand in line and say that I don't want this to happen anymore at all and we all know that's pretty far fetched, however it would be better if only one or two people were injured and not multiple people/kids every time this happens. There are several schools that I know of up north near DFW that already allow teachers to carry. I hate to say it but, I don't think that there is a cure all solution to this problem. Unfortunately in this day and age, we can't reverse what has already happened to this world's youth, or at least all of it. You are still going to have those bad apples not matter what you do or what policies you have in place. Like the other poster said, it's not just schools, it's churches, events or anything else that has large gatherings of people. 
Social media, internet, music, teachers, parents, God in schools, government, the problem list just goes on and on. 
Jusmy2cents


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## fishin shallow (Jul 31, 2005)

98aggie77566 said:


> Man....I'm struggling with this one.
> 
> I bought my son a shotgun for duck hunting on his birthday at 16.
> 
> ...


X2. If the guns are locked up how will the family defend themselves if the need arises ? Unless they are not familiar with firearms then I understand


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## BullyARed (Jun 19, 2010)

Common root that pushed these young kids did the evil killing: Bullying and social media?
There must be a prevention task force at school: Any student who is bullied by any person, reports that person to the task force. The task force has a list (or process) of risk assessment and prevention by monitoring high risk person through personal behavior and social media. Have three risk stages: Monitoring (observe and collect data), Prevention/Escalation (raise alarm, provide help and counseling), and Containment (intervention, control and action).


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## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

I haven't heard anyone conducting the investigation mention anything about bullying yet...


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## SpeckReds (Sep 10, 2005)

My wife works the High school. Thankfully she was not there today. 
She took a rare personal day off today to visit with a childhood friend that was in Houston from Florida. It is also her Birthday.
She told me she could have easily ended up in the classroom next door with some of her students to where this happened had she been there today. 
Pretty Awful day.


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## judweiser (May 22, 2004)

*State Law*



cklimpt said:


> Being only 17, federal law won't allow him to be executed.


He will be charged with a state capital offense. He is can get the death penalty.


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## Oso Blanco (Oct 17, 2010)

A shotgun in close quarters is very efficient at killing. 1 1/8 oz oo buck shell has 12, 33 caliber pellets at 1300 FPS. With the plug removed that is 60 pellets in just a few seconds.


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## Rubberback (Sep 9, 2008)

Haute Pursuit said:


> I haven't heard anyone conducting the investigation mention anything about bullying yet...


I thought I heard the coaches bullied him. What is disturbing is the trench coat? Red flag?:help:


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## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

Rubberback said:


> I thought I heard the coaches bullied him. What is disturbing is the trench coat? Red flag?:help:


I tried to find more on this and found:

_A student who survived the Texas school shooting on Friday has spoken out about the accused gunman, saying that he was 'emotionally bullied' by his classmates and coaches.
Dustin Severin, an 11th-grade student at Santa Fe High School, told KRIV that the suspected shooter, 17-year-old Dimitrios Pagourtiz, was constantly teased at school, but that he believed it never escalated into anything physical. 
"I know he's picked on by coaches and other students. He didn't really talk to anyone," he told the station. "My friends from the football team told me that coaches said he smelled, like, right in front of his face. And other kids would look at him and laugh at him ... nothing like physical but they still emotionally bullied him."
"I never thought he would just snap and shoot up the school," Severin added. "He didn't seem like he was a hateful person."_


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## redexpress (Apr 5, 2010)

Momma's Worry said:


> something kinda like at the Harris County Courthouse should work with limited access controlled/screened entry ports for all(military base style) and tall perimeter fence with razor wire.......equals no more school shootings
> 
> stand by...the left will have another field day with this as usual.....and accomplish nothing as usual....


Lots of us had to swipe a badge to open a turnstile then walk by security personnel to work in a refinery. You'd think we could at least have badges and a couple gates at a school. All of them here are wide open...just walk right in anywhere.


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## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

Rubberback said:


> I thought I heard the coaches bullied him. What is disturbing is the trench coat? Red flag?:help:


They interviewed some kid on TV and he said that they bullied him. Heck every coach I ever had bullied just about eveybody at one time or another.


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## roundman (May 21, 2004)

most everyone of my generation was picked on bullied but no one went out killin, i was bullied by coaches in high school to play football saying both my brothers played and i would too , they made me walk 1 run 1 around track everyday at gym, one day i had enough and told them i quit, went home told my parents and ask me WELL you anint gonna hang out at the house, i said nope im going to a trade school and learned how to weld, so at the time houston technical high school ( old san jac. downtown ) did that along with schooling, graduated in 1976, best move i made!


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## Rubberback (Sep 9, 2008)

Haute Pursuit said:


> They interviewed some kid on TV and he said that they bullied him. Heck every coach I ever had bullied just about eveybody at one time or another.


You want my thoughts " Hang him high". He already said he wanted to commit suicide. Hang Cruz too.


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## SaltwaterSlick (Jun 11, 2012)

More outcomes from the everyone gets a trophy syndrome... kids these days don't know what to do when life smacks 'em in da face, so they react like they've seen on TV and video games... pretty natural reaction to them.


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## roundman (May 21, 2004)

Rubberback said:


> You want my thoughts " Hang him high". He already said he wanted to commit suicide. Hang Cruz too.


heard that was what he wanted but after killin innocent people he couldnt do himself in, pos!


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## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

SaltwaterSlick said:


> More outcomes from the everyone gets a trophy syndrome... kids these days don't know what to do when life smacks 'em in da face, so they react like they've seen on TV and video games... pretty natural reaction to them.


I think there is a lot of truth to this. We (or they) have created a make believe world for kids, they really don't understand reality.


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## Rubberback (Sep 9, 2008)

Its a hard nut to crack. Good parenting is of the utmost. I was fortunate to have my mom always around to help me along my way. Did I do things wrong yes. But I learned along the way.
Today's society, most kids are not as fortunate as I was. Both parents have to work and they can't spend time raising their kids.


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## wbay2crowded (Jul 13, 2007)

1). Security fence around schools w/ monitored access

2). School uniforms (a kid w/ a trench coat in the summer? Come on, man!)

3). Professional armed guards..uniformed & not

4). Monitored cameras

THAT'S what it's come to.


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## Duckchasr (Apr 27, 2011)

I am just heartsick over this. We have become a godless society and we are reaping what we sow.
Romans 1:28-32
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.


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## Rubberback (Sep 9, 2008)

I said this when the last shooting happened in Florida. Bring our troops back to our country and let them guard our schools and boarders . 
PROBLEM SOLVED!
If the schools were guarded there is no way a punk kid wearing a trench coat in 95 degree heat would accomplish this. OUT~


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## Bocephus (May 30, 2008)

fishin shallow said:


> X2. If the guns are locked up how will the family defend themselves if the need arises ? Unless they are not familiar with firearms then I understand


My Wife knows the combo to the safe and can load and shoot them as good as I can. She also has one out of the safe to grab anytime she needs it.


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## TA_Fab (Aug 20, 2016)

When I was in school at Galveston Ball which was pretty rough at the time. We had limits on what we could wear and had to have clear back packs and water bottles. This was a step they were taking before putting in metal detectors. Had plenty of fights on the hallways but no big deal. Maybe more measures like this? And we always had at least 4 armed LEO's on campus and this was in 2010. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Rubberback (Sep 9, 2008)

Bocephus said:


> My Wife knows the combo to the safe and can load and shoot them as good as I can. She also has one out of the safe to grab anytime she needs it.


Smart man. I noticed I moved my pistol from my bedside and fixed that problem. This crazy arse world we live in I'm going to load the snake charmer for protection.


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## 4 Ever-Fish N (Jun 10, 2006)

There are many businesses that have this level of security. Why not have it for our children's schools? I think this is exactly what needs to be done. It may not prevent all attacks but it would definitely help. I agree with this idea 100%.



wbay2crowded said:


> 1). Security fence around schools w/ monitored access
> 
> 2). School uniforms (a kid w/ a trench coat in the summer? Come on, man!)
> 
> ...


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## bwguardian (Aug 30, 2005)

I talked to our daughters club coach today that trained this kid. He said he was on the dark side, had been bullied, and the mom was out there. There house was damaged by Harvey and had to move here to Clear Lake where he was put in CCISD. Coach is a Christian as well as I, and I told him it he needs the Lord in his life. Prayers to all the families affected by this.


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## Trailer Rig (Jul 25, 2011)

wbay2crowded said:


> 1). Security fence around schools w/ monitored access
> 
> 2). School uniforms (a kid w/ a trench coat in the summer? Come on, man!)
> 
> ...


Exactly, some of my thoughts as well.
Another good move, as they are starting at Lake Travis HS, drug testing.
These participation trophy jouveniles live in a social media bubble that clouds their judgement & removes the reality of consequences. 
Tough Love & good parenting go a long way.

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## pipeliner345 (Mar 15, 2010)

Bozo said:


> A kid just interviewed on abc13 said that he saw the shooter enter the art classroom wearing a trench coat and combat boots. He heard the shots and hid in a bathroom nearby for a short while and then escaped when a teacher told them to make a run for it.
> 
> He said the suspected shooter, that he saw wearing the trench coat, was bullied by the coaching staff regularly and by other students as well. Also that recently he was known to have a short fuse and become irate at the drop of a hat which caused more bullying and more people to withdraw and not be friends with him.
> 
> If true, and the coaches were bullying this kid instead of mentoring him and seeking help for him, that is horrible. I know that it is just an accusation, but the kid being interviewed seemed sincere and not of the snowflake variety. Who knows though.


I thought this also. I hope there is no merit here but i believe the kid.

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## Ox Eye (Dec 17, 2007)

If I may venture an oppinion on this too-often occuring tragedy. This sort of thing is not a rare event anymore and has begun happening quite frequently over the last few years. The one consistent factor seemingly present in virtually every case is that the perpetrater has a history of being a misfit, lacking social skills and is unable to find acceptance with peers. It's seemimly logical that there is something psycological as the root cause. In short, though, they all are seeking personal recognition. And this sort of thing gets them that ... in spades!

I'd like to see the Media begin trying an experiment and not devulge any information about the shooter. No name, no pictures and no personal history. The idea is not mine, and has been suggested by psychologists. It sure seems like maybe it's high time to give it a try.


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## JamesAggie (Jun 28, 2012)

Tragedies seem to be getting closer together. Another sad day. Lots of good suggestions in the thread, some very easy to implement. I think all kids should be in uniform while at school, even playing field. I'm for limiting entrances across campus for everyon. All entrances with armed security. Emergency exits locked from inside. I have 2 teenagers, when we get into it they always say they want to be treated like adults and respected (whole other conversation). So let's treat school like work: wear a uniform, dress code for all. School provided if necessary. Every student gets a picture ID badge that they wear. They can clock in and out of school every day. They can swipe badges for lunch. Additionally parents should volunteer, armed. I frequently have weekdays off where I would spend a morning and afternoon at school. To me these are all low cost, high reward options, and these are things we can control. What happens in the home is less controllable. 

However, in the end nothing will change. Liberals and conservatives will argue and showboat, but little ever changes. 

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## 348473 (Apr 12, 2017)

News doesn't do it justice. My friend, a teacher there watched the whole thing unfold over CCTV. She's going to be permanently scarred from what she witnessed. Very distraught, just horrible. Hope thjs kid gets the needle!

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## EddieL (Feb 3, 2011)

big john o said:


> The parents of the shooter should be held equally responsible and prosecuted.


What about the Sante Fe ISD school board members and the administration? It's all about priorities...uniforms for the football team and band or metal detectors, bullet proof glass, safe rooms and real security measures. All of those folks have blood on their hands too in their quest to build palatial schools so they can outdo the next district. They all need to hang as well as theybare the folks who could prevent this ****.


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## 2Ws (Jun 28, 2016)

In the last 2 weeks or so armed officers have stopped 2 shootings MSN did NOT report on it and if so very little coverage.......WHY??
You would think it would be wall to wall BUT it don't fit their agenda so it goes unreported. Maybe if this was given the same coverage kids would think twice.... MSN is not our countries friend.


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## 98aggie77566 (Jul 7, 2009)

EddieL said:


> What about the Sante Fe ISD school board members and the administration? It's all about priorities...uniforms for the football team and band or metal detectors, bullet proof glass, safe rooms and real security measures. All of those folks have blood on their hands too in their quest to build palatial schools so they can outdo the next district. They all need to hang as well as theybare the folks who could prevent this ****.


Man that's a little extreme.....

I assume you are a member of your local school board?


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## fy0834 (Jan 18, 2011)

I posted a poem about raising boys... cane out upside down.

I do think parents/fathers are falling short raising their sons.

Momâ€™s you must be doing a great job, as there are no girls doing these mass shootings.

Can someone rotate for me... thanks.


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## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

.


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## 98aggie77566 (Jul 7, 2009)

Good poem....hits home with my son graduating this week.

All you can do is raise them right, and say your prayers at night.


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## roundman (May 21, 2004)

Rubberback said:


> I said this when the last shooting happened in Florida. Bring our troops back to our country and let them guard our schools and boarders .
> PROBLEM SOLVED!
> If the schools were guarded there is no way a punk kid wearing a trench coat in 95 degree heat would accomplish this. OUT~


yup and id bet there are plenty that would volunteer for the job,, makes me wonder if he started wearing that for awhile so everyone would be use to him wearing it even in hot weather


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## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

roundman said:


> makes me wonder if he started wearing that for awhile so everyone would be use to him wearing it even in hot weather


I think this is exactly what he did. He was probably plotting this for quite awhile.


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## cloudfishing (May 8, 2005)

I think it is time we stop building 70 million dollar stadiums and start working on some security !!!


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## Rubberback (Sep 9, 2008)

cloudfishing said:


> I think it is time we stop building 70 million dollar stadiums and start working on some security !!!


Our stadiums were 2x6 seating. Worked for us.
This is really getting out of hand. But do we really need to hear about guns for the next months ahead. Please spare me from this and guard the schools.
The kids are scared and I agree with them its not right for them to have to be scared at school.


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## Mark454 (May 21, 2007)

cloudfishing said:


> I think it is time we stop building 70 million dollar stadiums and start working on some security !!!


Agree completely.


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## Mark454 (May 21, 2007)

Nice poem whitebassfisher


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## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

Mark454 said:


> Nice poem whitebassfisher


Credit goes to *fy0834* , I only turned it right side up.


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## ATX 4x4 (Jun 25, 2011)

2red said:


> Good grief, WTH is wrong with people?


Not enough Jesus.


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## The1ThatGotAway (Jun 24, 2009)

.


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## Mad Mike (Dec 28, 2005)

More than one student gave interviews with the media that he was bullied by coaches. I hope this isn't true.


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## fishguru00 (Aug 10, 2011)

Iâ€™m guessing that being bullied is somewhat subjective. 

It was a sad day for sure.


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## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

I have never had a football coach that hasn't bullyied me or another kid. It's part of their job to make you better. If you can't take it you quit like this POS kid did. That is no excuse to go out and kill people because someone hurt your little feelings. Is the needle ready yet?


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## 348473 (Apr 12, 2017)

Saw a different perspective from the guy who wrote the book Columbine. Basically was saying don't take what these kids they are interviewing worth a mound of salt. Yeah they may have known him or of him but the real close people to him are out of the news interviewing with authorities and not in the spotlight for a reason. I just thought that made sense to me but yeah hope they dirtnap this kid and learn something to hopefully catch these types so these tragedies don't happen as often! And if I saw my kids wearing trench coats and **** like that I'd slap the emo out of them faster than they can say Jiminy cricket!

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## Bocephus (May 30, 2008)

Haute Pursuit said:


> I have never had a football coach that hasn't bullyied me or another kid. It's part of their job to make you better. If you can't take it you quit like this POS kid did. That is no excuse to go out and kill people because someone hurt your little feelings. Is the needle ready yet?


Yessir...

I learned a lot playing sports that has served me well in life. Teamwork, sacrifice, hard work, and the ability to know you can perform when tired, hurting, and at times discouraged.

Those lessons were taught by hard arse coaches that pushed us and dogged us knowing they were in the end building us up, not tearing us down. I guess it's all in how you perceive it. But I knew even then it was making me tougher, and better. We won a lot of district championships, and went far into the playoffs every year. Success is earned....anyone ever heard that ?

Later in life I was able to thank my head football Coach for teaching me those lessons. So glad I did, he passed away a few years later.

My worthless .02 on Coaches, at least the ones I had, I'm very thankful for them.


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## Tortuga (May 21, 2004)

In olden times.. being bullied was settled after school out behind the
'shacks' with fists between the 'bullier' and the 'bulliee' and the worst
outcome was a bloody nose. Nowadays in our cyber world it seems
the weapons are guns or knives....with accompanying deadly mayhem..

Sure wuz a kinder, gentler world.... Hope that kid gets the 'full extent'
when it comes time for sentencing..


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## Rockfish2 (Sep 1, 2017)

Haute Pursuit said:


> I have never had a football coach that hasn't bullyied me or another kid. It's part of their job to make you better. If you can't take it you quit like this POS kid did. That is no excuse to go out and kill people because someone hurt your little feelings. Is the needle ready yet?


Thatâ€™s actually not considered bullying, more like tough love, because the end goal was to make you better and not designed to hurt you. Good coaches have always known their players and how best to motivate each of them to get the best out of them, which is always the plan for winning. And this POS is not eligible for the death penalty btw (Supreme Court), or even life without parole (Texas law).


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## TIMBOv2 (Mar 18, 2010)

Tortuga said:


> In olden times.. being bullied was settled after school out behind the
> 'shacks' with fists between the 'bullier' and the 'bulliee' and the worst
> outcome was a bloody nose. Nowadays in our cyber world it seems
> the weapons are guns or knives....with accompanying deadly mayhem..
> ...


This right here. I tell my grandkids if they are being bullied or picked on to take care of business. They were lik if we get in trouble for fighting at school dad will whoop our arses. He overheard our conversation and told them â€œBSâ€ if you are getting picked on or bullied to take care of business and all will be good. You WILL get an arse whooping for not taking up for yourself...


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## 348473 (Apr 12, 2017)

Well now the police are involved. My kid who is very timid broke his finger on a bullies face a while back. Had to go down police there. If they press charges they take them to the police station the whole deal. 30 days of alternative school etc. Like Tortuga said it's alot different now. 

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## jackcu (Dec 28, 2004)

Reading some reports of what he said while killing kids was chilling. Obviously this kid is pure evil!!!! Send him where he belongs, straight to hell.


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## bwguardian (Aug 30, 2005)

Being bullied, having dating issues with the girl he was after, etc. is no reason to kill an innocent people. Our middle daughter was bullied purdy hard a couple years ago, and to me social media is the new evil these kiddos are up against.


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## Tortuga (May 21, 2004)

TIMBOv2 said:


> This right here. I tell my grandkids if they are being bullied or picked on to take care of business. They were lik if we get in trouble for fighting at school dad will whoop our arses. He overheard our conversation and told them â€œBSâ€ if you are getting picked on or bullied to take care of business and all will be good. You WILL get an arse whooping for not taking up for yourself...


Yep, Timbo...my Dad was the same.. If I told him I was having trouble with another guy or guys...he just told me I HAD to settle it myself...

He DID give me the advice to try and get in the first blow....and....if things were not going my way...look around me...there would always be a rock or a piece of 2x4 that could equalize things. ....LOL

In this case I think the Cops and Judge ought to turn the little fart over to a Father of one of the dead kids and drop them off out in the country somewhere and let the Dad give him his "Come to Jesus Moment'


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## LandLocked (Apr 28, 2005)

cloudfishing said:


> I think it is time we stop building 70 million dollar stadiums and start working on some security !!!


Absolutely right!


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## Tortuga (May 21, 2004)

Nowadays I think one of the main reasons is the anonymity of the internet and social media... Anyone can say anything...true or not....hurtful or not.. and get away with it... If we had to put our real name, address and phone number on each post we put up, things like our 2cool 'Jungle' ,Facebook, Twitter,etc. would vanish overnight. LOL

It's a sad world...


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## Drundel (Feb 6, 2006)

The1ThatGotAway said:


> .


No way they have done an investigation that quickly. That press release screams damage control.

Some more info.

https://heavy.com/news/2018/05/dimitrios-pagourtzis/

https://nypost.com/2018/05/20/victi...spect-targeted-my-daughter-for-rejecting-him/

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/19/us/santa-fe-high-school-deedra-van-ness/index.html


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## sabiki (Aug 21, 2005)

Ox Eye said:


> If I may venture an oppinion on this too-often occuring tragedy. This sort of thing is not a rare event anymore and has begun happening quite frequently over the last few years. The one consistent factor seemingly present in virtually every case is that the perpetrater has a history of being a misfit, lacking social skills and is unable to find acceptance with peers. It's seemimly logical that there is something psycological as the root cause. In short, though, they all are seeking personal recognition. And this sort of thing gets them that ... in spades!
> 
> I'd like to see the Media begin trying an experiment and not devulge any information about the shooter. No name, no pictures and no personal history. The idea is not mine, and has been suggested by psychologists. It sure seems like maybe it's high time to give it a try.


THIS.
but with todays media it wont happen.. 
IMO it has become a "fad" among kids that have problems socially... seems to be a subculture that exists among them that glorifies doing this type of thing... like a way for a kid to check out, say "I quit" and go out with a bang and have some recognition. sad-- anyone notice that there have been no females doing this?


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## The1ThatGotAway (Jun 24, 2009)

Drundel said:


> No way they have done an investigation that quickly. That press release screams damage control.
> 
> Some more info.
> 
> ...


Oh, I might agree with you on that... nobody is that efficient


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## BullyARed (Jun 19, 2010)

Tortuga said:


> Yep, Timbo...my Dad was the same.. If I told him I was having trouble with another guy or guys...he just told me I HAD to settle it myself...
> 
> He DID give me the advice to try and get in the first blow....and....if things were not going my way...look around me...there would always be a rock or a piece of 2x4 that could equalize things. ....LOL
> 
> In this case I think the Cops and Judge ought to turn the little fart over to a Father of one of the dead kids and drop them off out in the country somewhere and let the Dad give him his "Come to Jesus Moment'


Yep, I just kicked the bully (bigger than me) in fifth grade very hard fast in the ball without saying a word and choked hold him until he turned so blue and gave up! No more bully after that.


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## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

The little puke's lawyers are already throwing the competency card out there. They didn't look real confident though...


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## fy0834 (Jan 18, 2011)

Haute Pursuit said:


> The little puke's lawyers are already throwing the competency card out there. They didn't look real confident though...


Howâ€™d that work out for Chris Kyleâ€™s killer...

Not gonna play out well for the defense here in Texas.


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## ChuChu (Jan 23, 2010)

BullyARed said:


> Yep, I just kicked the bully (bigger than me) in fifth grade very hard fast in the ball without saying a word and choked hold him until he turned so blue and gave up! No more bully after that.


That's how it was handled when I was in school. Kick in the gonads or a punch in the nose or some just shrugged the bullying off and moved on. Why are kids taking guns to school today and killing a bunch? Is it a complete disrespect for life?


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## Ox Eye (Dec 17, 2007)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ox Eye 
If I may venture an opinion on this too-often occuring tragedy. This sort of thing is not a rare event anymore and has begun happening quite frequently over the last few years. The one consistent factor seemingly present in virtually every case is that the perpetrator has a history of being a misfit, lacking social skills and is unable to find acceptance with peers. It's seemingly logical that there is something psycological as the root cause. In short, though, they all are seeking personal recognition. And this sort of thing gets them that ... in spades!

I'd like to see the Media begin trying an experiment and not divulge any information about the shooter. No name, no pictures and no personal history. The idea is not mine, and has been suggested by psychologists. It sure seems like maybe it's high time to give it a try.



sabiki said:


> THIS.
> but with todays media it wont happen..


No legal expert, here, but most of the perps are underage minors not yet fully vested under legal "accountability" standards, so there could be some legal basis for withholding identification. Barring that, perhaps a public move to boycott advertizers of news media outlets that refuse to comply with this idea. It's certainly worth at least an effort. Doncha think?


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

Haute Pursuit said:


> The little puke's lawyers are already throwing the competency card out there. They didn't look real confident though...


Well, theyâ€™re not being paid to make sure he gets the needle next week...


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

I am interested in just how this is being treated in the media... we donâ€™t have quite the gun-control rhetoric youâ€™d expect.. makes sense, though, they had built a house of cards around â€œwe certainly donâ€™t want to take your shotguns and non-semi autos, We just need to restrict the weapons of war.. apparently the kid didnâ€™t get the memo, and theyâ€™re not sure just where to go here.

iâ€™d Still like to know just where the early reports of him using an AR originated: there was a LOT of media outlets that jumped on that like a duck on a June bug.


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## essayons75 (May 15, 2006)

dwilliams35 said:


> I am interested in just how this is being treated in the media... we donâ€™t have quite the gun-control rhetoric youâ€™d expect.. makes sense, though, they had built a house of cards around â€œwe certainly donâ€™t want to take your shotguns and non-semi autos, We just need to restrict the weapons of war.. apparently the kid didnâ€™t get the memo, and theyâ€™re not sure just where to go here.
> 
> iâ€™d Still like to know just where the early reports of him using an AR originated: there was a LOT of media outlets that jumped on that like a duck on a June bug.


All of the news outlets that jumped on the AR lie credited the Houston Chronicle with the information. Some later corrected the information in the story but left the AR info in the headlines.


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## Rubberback (Sep 9, 2008)

I don't know where there going but I do know they should make an effort to protect the students. Thank god that school is ending now.
Hopefully they will do something these next's few months to make our schools safe.


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

dwilliams35 said:


> I am interested in just how this is being treated in the media... we donâ€™t have quite the gun-control rhetoric youâ€™d expect.. makes sense, though, they had built a house of cards around â€œwe certainly donâ€™t want to take your shotguns and non-semi autos, We just need to restrict the weapons of war.. apparently the kid didnâ€™t get the memo, and theyâ€™re not sure just where to go here.
> 
> iâ€™d Still like to know just where the early reports of him using an AR originated: there was a LOT of media outlets that jumped on that like a duck on a June bug.


A single shot break open wall hanger type shotgun and a couple pockets full of shells can cause a massive amount of carnage before anyone can realistically respond.


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

Rubberback said:


> I don't know where there going but I do know they should make an effort to protect the students. Thank god that school is ending now.
> Hopefully they will do something these next's few months to make our schools safe.


. Who knows.. weâ€™ll see some whining about cost of metal detectors and how itâ€™s too risky to arm teachers, etc.... meanwhile, the fact remains that any given kid is about a zillion times more likely to get killed in a car on the way to school than to get shot in one of these incidents.. itâ€™s just good for political speeches and people with anti gun agendas, but in the long run I donâ€™t see much really happening.

It makes for compelling headlines, but to be perfectly honest, the numbers just donâ€™t match up to this being an â€œepidemicâ€..


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## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

If we just ban millenials the school shootings would stop.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

There was plenty of semi auto military rifles available years ago. Dont think any mass shootings. Society is the culprit. Kids rule schools, parents wont or dont know how to be parents. Ugh.


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## Rubberback (Sep 9, 2008)

dwilliams35 said:


> . Who knows.. weâ€™ll see some whining about cost of metal detectors and how itâ€™s too risky to arm teachers, etc.... meanwhile, the fact remains that any given kid is about a zillion times more likely to get killed in a car on the way to school than to get shot in one of these incidents.. itâ€™s just good for political speeches and people with anti gun agendas, but in the long run I donâ€™t see much really happening.
> 
> It makes for compelling headlines, but to be perfectly honest, the numbers just donâ€™t match up to this being an â€œepidemicâ€..


I'll be honest too! My son is grown up 35. But I don't like hearing about students being killed at school period. Its not right. I'm not interested in protest and Bla Bla about guns, but I do not understand why this issue has not been corrected or attempted to be corrected. I know money's involved but we pay entirely to much money on stupid stuff day in and day out.
Lets protect our students. Their not mine but come on.
I understand about autos being a big killer but being shot at school can and should be corrected immediately.


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## boom! (Jul 10, 2004)

I wouldnâ€™t put my kids in public schools period. If the government want to remove God from schools, then itâ€™s time to pull your kids out and pay for a private education. When you go with the free education you get exactly what you paid for.


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

Rubberback said:


> I'll be honest too! My son is grown up 35. But I don't like hearing about students being killed at school period. Its not right. I'm not interested in protest and Bla Bla about guns, but I do not understand why this issue has not been corrected or attempted to be corrected. I know money's involved but we pay entirely to much money on stupid stuff day in and day out.
> Lets protect our students. Their not mine but come on.
> I understand about autos being a big killer but being shot at school can and should be corrected immediately.


Iâ€™m not disagreeing with you, just being realistic.. thereâ€™s simply too much disagreement about what itâ€™s going to take, and all thatâ€™s left is political rhetoric. I simply donâ€™t see just a whole lot happening, and given the state of the educational system as it exists today, anything that DOES happen is likely to be be more gun-free zone stupidity..


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## Rockfish2 (Sep 1, 2017)

boom! said:


> I wouldnâ€™t put my kids in public schools period. If the government want to remove God from schools, then itâ€™s time to pull your kids out and pay for a private education. When you go with the free education you get exactly what you paid for.


If only it were free. If you own property you certainly pay a pretty penny in taxes for the schools, and not just when your kids are going there.


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

dwilliams35 said:


> Iâ€™m not disagreeing with you, just being realistic.. thereâ€™s simply too much disagreement about what itâ€™s going to take, and all thatâ€™s left is political rhetoric. I simply donâ€™t see just a whole lot happening, and given the state of the educational system as it exists today, anything that DOES happen is likely to be be more gun-free zone stupidity..


The conversation about the open entrances into the schools is valid. Pretty simple and cheap fix to put emergency door hardware on the doors that prevents exterior entrance and allows emergency exit. Make available only one or two entrances into the schools that are manned and any suspicious student is investigated. Will it cost money and be inconvenient, yes, but not a whole lot of money and the inconvenience is justifiable.

As I am sure we would all agree, the issue isn't guns, it is those who would abuse guns (or any other weapon) to injure others without justifiable cause. Funneling the students through check points and locking all other entrances is just one small, and doable, step toward stopping this lunacy.


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## boom! (Jul 10, 2004)

Rockfish2 said:


> If only it were free. If you own property you certainly pay a pretty penny in taxes for the schools, and not just when your kids are going there.


Yeah I know how it works.


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## Hayniedude24 (Jun 15, 2016)

RB II said:


> The conversation about the open entrances into the schools is valid. Pretty simple and cheap fix to put emergency door hardware on the doors that prevents exterior entrance and allows emergency exit. Make available only one or two entrances into the schools that are manned and any suspicious student is investigated. Will it cost money and be inconvenient, yes, but not a whole lot of money and the inconvenience is justifiable.
> 
> As I am sure we would all agree, the issue isn't guns, it is those who would abuse guns (or any other weapon) to injure others without justifiable cause. Funneling the students through check points and locking all other entrances is just one small, and doable, step toward stopping this lunacy.


Got an email from our sophomore girls school on Friday stating that by first day beginning of the 18-19 school year that all doors/entrances will have auto locks with armed guards at all major entrances into the schools buildings. All teachers will be able to remotely lock entrances and their own doors remotely as well in case something goes down. I'd send her to school with a .38 if she was more proficient and wouldn't get expelled for life. These days suck.


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

Texashookset said:


> Got an email from our sophomore girls school on Friday stating that by first day beginning of the 18-19 school year that all doors/entrances will have auto locks with armed guards at all major entrances into the schools buildings. All teachers will be able to remotely lock entrances and their own doors remotely as well in case something goes down. I'd send her to school with a .38 if she was more proficient and wouldn't get expelled for life. These days suck.


All of that sounds great, but the auto lock function is a waste of money. The entrance doors simply need panic hardware, which locks when the door closes. The electric strike doors will cost 4-5 times what the panic hardware does, plus all of the exterior doors already have them, just need sensors/alarm to notify when a locked door is opened. There are codes that govern what doors can and can't be locked. The class room has a specific code that applies. Not sure a "auto lock" will meet that code, doubtful, but whatever.

Point is control the entrances, funnel the kids through managed locations and make the cops do their job and be alert and ask questions. Clear back packs is a small step in the right direction.


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## ATX 4x4 (Jun 25, 2011)

Itâ€™s time for Godâ€™s people to pray.

No law, no mechanism, and certainly no politician will fix this mess.


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## Brian Castille (May 27, 2004)

CHARLIE said:


> There was plenty of semi auto military rifles available years ago. Dont think any mass shootings. Society is the culprit. Kids rule schools, parents wont or dont know how to be parents. Ugh.


Yep, the guns have always been around and society has definitely changed. The AR-15 has been around well over 50 years. It is not like it is something new. I graduated high school in 1997 - there were some odd folks in the halls but I don't think anyone ever thought someone was going do do something of this magnitude. I think the worst thing was cafeteria food fights.

I was watching TV earlier today and one commercial I happened to see really hit me - I forget what it was exactly but it was something about home wifi - it showed a family of 4 so wrapped up in all their tablets, smartphones, tv's etc that they just isolated themselves and were pretty much dysfunctional but I guess this is the new normal? I know folks that will be watching TV, playing on a tablet and frantically responding to text messages as they pop in. Geez, slow down take a mental break and relax. Better yet, go outside.

Not sure what the answer is but I think the focus should be on how to keep these people from wanting to do something like this instead of trying to keep guns away from them. If it's not a gun, it will just be something else.


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

RB II said:


> The conversation about the open entrances into the schools is valid. Pretty simple and cheap fix to put emergency door hardware on the doors that prevents exterior entrance and allows emergency exit. Make available only one or two entrances into the schools that are manned and any suspicious student is investigated. Will it cost money and be inconvenient, yes, but not a whole lot of money and the inconvenience is justifiable.
> 
> As I am sure we would all agree, the issue isn't guns, it is those who would abuse guns (or any other weapon) to injure others without justifiable cause. Funneling the students through check points and locking all other entrances is just one small, and doable, step toward stopping this lunacy.


Sure itâ€™s valid. Meanwhile, we can pretty much give a school the hard-target treatment until we are blue in the face, and youâ€™ll still have vulnerabilities. Barring the full prison treatment, which wonâ€™t be politically viable, put a kid in there for 2-3 weeks and heâ€™ll be able to tell you how to get around those measures.
Just a matter of how much in resources and fire-code violation youâ€™re willing to put into defeating a threat that is exceedingly rare to begin with. From a pure statistical basis, mass shootings in schools are still actuarial anomolies at best, and defeating them with physical-plant changes like that have a real dose of maginot line to them; just figure out a way around the defenses and carry on.

Iâ€™d say arming the teachers is job one, thatâ€™s an essentially â€œunknownâ€ threat to a shooter, he doesnt know what the defense is at that point, and this canâ€™t plan around it.


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## bubbas kenner (Sep 4, 2010)

ATX 4x4 said:


> Itâ€™s time for Godâ€™s people to pray.
> 
> No law, no mechanism, and certainly no politician will fix this mess.


Well said brother after all God did send His son to save.Somthing happened 2018 years ago hence today's date.That man walked on water fed the poor healed the sick.
John 5:19 The whole world lies in the power of the evil one (satan).
Gal 1:4 Jesus gave himself for our sins to deliver us from present evil age.
Claim Jesus the devil will flee this is our hope all else is sinking sand.


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## 98aggie77566 (Jul 7, 2009)

dwilliams35 said:


> Sure itâ€™s valid. Meanwhile, we can pretty much give a school the hard-target treatment until we are blue in the face, and youâ€™ll still have vulnerabilities. Barring the full prison treatment, which wonâ€™t be politically viable, put a kid in there for 2-3 weeks and heâ€™ll be able to tell you how to get around those measures.
> Just a matter of how much in resources and fire-code violation youâ€™re willing to put into defeating a threat that is exceedingly rare to begin with. From a pure statistical basis, mass shootings in schools are still actuarial anomolies at best, and defeating them with physical-plant changes like that have a real dose of maginot line to them; just figure out a way around the defenses and carry on.
> 
> Iâ€™d say arming the teachers is job one, thatâ€™s an essentially â€œunknownâ€ threat to a shooter, he doesnt know what the defense is at that point, and this canâ€™t plan around it.


I think it is more about the $$ required than it is about the inability to secure the school.

Take a look at airports as an example...how many mass shootings have you seen in airports (in secured areas...not baggage claim).

It can be done, and within code...but will cost a fortune given the # of schools nationwide.

Problem is....then they will target a high school sporting event with minimal security, or some other easier target. You can't stop a maniac that is willing to give up their life...if they are willing to be patient.

I don't know what the answer is....perhaps go back to public hangings?


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## cubera (Mar 9, 2005)

Don't know if it has already been brought up, but I'm wondering if this was another kid that's been on behavior drugs since he was old enough to walk.


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## Swampstomper (Apr 19, 2010)

Extremely higher levels of security at schools would seem to be definately neccessary at this point. Costs, delays ?- whatever it takes. They did it for airline security and it worked.

I believe there needs to be a larger effort of identifiying these troubed kids and possibly moving them to smaller alternative schools before they,re too far gone. Most of these kids won,t commit an act like this but may turn out very bad later. Some kids just don,t fit in the big school sceen with all the social and peer pressure. I,ve seen troubled kids moved to alternative schools with good results.


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

98aggie77566 said:


> I think it is more about the $$ required than it is about the inability to secure the school.
> 
> Take a look at airports as an example...how many mass shootings have you seen in airports (in secured areas...not baggage claim).
> 
> ...


 I don't know that an airport is a good analog for a school: a steady stream, 24/7, of passengers, vs. every student in a school coming in at 7:30.. Picture a Texans game being limited to one entrance with searches of every seatholder. Plus, remember that the "business" of a school can't be done through one door: you've got multi-facility campuses, you've got delivery entrances, you've got vocational trades classes going on that by nature have to go in and out the door, etc. etc.: it's just not as simple as "everybody go through door A" and put security there..

We've also got to remember that we had airport security before 9-11 as well... All of this "hardened target" stuff is simply reactive: you put something up, they figure out a way around it. Put plastic explosives in your shoes, the next week every passenger is pulling their shoes off. Protecting against the last threat doesn't necessarily do a bit of good against the next one.

I'm still stuck on arming teachers: it's a flexible counter to the threat, the bad guys can't adapt to a threat that they don't know the location or capabilities of. Heck, for that matter, I'm not all that opposed to arming STUDENTS... I know my share of 16 year olds that I wouldn't have a problem at all putting a gun in their hands.. Heck, we're giving full auto M-16's to 18, and sometime 17 year olds, and telling them to protect the country: is there a magic switch that makes a high school student inherently immature and untrustworthy, but worthy of that by virtue of walking across a graduation stage?

Even the touted Israeli model won't really do the job: their threat is external, ours is internal. As of yet, we don't have terrorists attacking schools. (that'll change as soon as they figure that out). The Israelis build a hardened, well-armed encampment for their schools, to keep the threat away. OUR threat, on the other hand, seems to always be from a kid that's inside the building.

As bad as it sounds, barring a major change on societal factors that are contributing to this, our best move is just putting as many guns in the hands of good guys as we can, and just concentrate on minimizing damage. "Acceptable Losses" sounds terrible when it comes to the student subject matter we're talking about, but that's pretty much what we're facing here. Put some guns in the school, and hope that you can get somebody to dust them off after the initial shock of one or two casualties wears off, rather than just hiding in a closet and allowing them to proceed at will before the cops show up.

In my book, that's probably both the cheapest and most effective solution, if you can just get it past the political wall that is preventing it.


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## cman (Apr 17, 2009)

I think you are both correct. 
Sure, arm teachers. But they are teachers that chose to teach children as a profession vs. being aggressive in pursuit of financial gain or labor. It may help for sure, but they by nature wouldn't be my only choice. 

Arm teachers, add security or off duty law enforcement, and add metal detectors. Stagger school entry time slightly to ease traffic on metal detectors. They are already doing or debating that at my district for next year so as to relieve the bus drivers' loads. It can and should be done.

And start prosecuting parents whose kids commit crimes with their guns.


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## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

Here's an idea. Stop spending the millions on sports in the schools and invest it in security for the kids.


Arm those instructors who are capable of using a firearm, have a good security plan and this "let's shoot people at school" syndrome can be contained.


TH


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

Now they're talking about kids possibly getting shot by officers in a 25-minute gun battle with the perp... This is going to get ugly.


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

Trouthunter said:


> Here's an idea. Stop spending the millions on sports in the schools and invest it in security for the kids.
> 
> Arm those instructors who are capable of using a firearm, have a good security plan and this "let's shoot people at school" syndrome can be contained.
> 
> TH


 Legacy Stadium in Katy got $1.64 million in revenue in its first semester last year. Build it with bond funds, get that back in cash. That ain't going away.


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## BATWING (May 9, 2008)

If stadiums are such a profit center then why do they build them with tax dollars?


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## Bocephus (May 30, 2008)

dwilliams35 said:


> Now they're talking about kids possibly getting shot by officers in a 25-minute gun battle with the perp... This is going to get ugly.


Kid was carrying a pump shotgun, and a .38 Special revolver....how much ammo was he carrying ? I doubt enough for a 25 minute gun battle.

All the kids I saw on the news reported they heard 3 initial shots then 4 soon after.


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

BATWING said:


> If stadiums are such a profit center then why do they build them with tax dollars?


Itâ€™s how things are categorized: bond service is trated differently, and supported differently, than â€œregularâ€ funds. They are basically using a bond debt to fund regular M&O income, which the state views differently when all the formulas for state funding is concerned. Itâ€™s not one big pile of money, thereâ€™s real financial advantages to the schools to have more funds in M&O (maintenance and operations) than in I&S (interest and sinking, or bond service funds).

Iâ€™m not sure just how nontax revenue gets treated, but the higher the M&O funding, the more cash they get from the state. Any means to move stuff into that category means more money.

It also may be that nontax revenue like that may be exempt from the Robin Hood recapture payments.


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

Bocephus said:


> Kid was carrying a pump shotgun, and a .38 Special revolver....how much ammo was he carrying ? I doubt enough for a 25 minute gun battle.
> 
> All the kids I saw on the news reported they heard 3 initial shots then 4 soon after.


Well, thereâ€™s gun battle, and thereâ€™s 25 minutes of talking where a half dozen rounds were fired... â€œgun battleâ€ sells more ads..


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## Bocephus (May 30, 2008)

dwilliams35 said:


> Well, thereâ€™s gun battle, and thereâ€™s 25 minutes of talking where a half dozen rounds were fired... â€œgun battleâ€ sells more ads..


Yes.."Gun Battle" is way more impressive. I somehow forgot how the media works these days.

What's more interesting is how the media is keeping very quite about the Perp's weapons. It seems a pump shotgun, and a revolver doesn't fit their agenda...


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## gbollom (Apr 16, 2012)

The kid was worried/complaining about bullying, now he's about to go to prison for life. Good luck avoiding bullying there duma$$


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## Tortuga (May 21, 2004)

dwilliams35 said:


> Well, thereâ€™s gun battle, and thereâ€™s 25 minutes of talking where a half dozen rounds were fired... â€œgun battleâ€ sells more ads..


"Half dozen rounds " ???... Ten dead..ten more in hospitals with gunshot wounds....?????... Must be one helluva shotgun...


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

Tortuga said:


> "Half dozen rounds " ???... Ten dead..ten more in hospitals with gunshot wounds....?????... Must be one helluva shotgun...


. Well, I was actually speaking to the 25 minutes after the cops showed up, not the four minutes before that..


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## Chuck06R1 (Apr 7, 2015)

gbollom said:


> The kid was worried/complaining about bullying, now he's about to go to prison for life. Good luck avoiding bullying there duma$$


Reports are that he'll be up for parole in 40 years. Doesn't mean he'll be approved though.


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## cman (Apr 17, 2009)

> Legacy Stadium in Katy got $1.64 million in revenue in its first semester last year. Build it with bond funds, get that back in cash. That ain't going away.


I'm not opposed to spending on sports facilities, but that does not seem like a return to tout, especially if that was gross receipts before operating expenses.

Fall probably accounts for over 95% of the revenue. 
At that rate, even if it was 100% profit, it would take 43 years to break even.


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

cman said:


> I'm not opposed to spending on sports facilities, but that does not seem like a return to tout, especially if that was gross receipts before operating expenses.
> 
> Fall probably accounts for over 95% of the revenue.
> At that rate, even if it was 100% profit, it would take 43 years to break even.


. It doesnâ€™t have to cover the bills... school financing isnâ€™t the real world. It just has to end up in the right place to be worth it to the school..


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## cman (Apr 17, 2009)

Right...
But your argument was that it was a financially sound ROI.


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

dwilliams35 said:


> I'm still stuck on arming teachers: it's a flexible counter to the threat, the bad guys can't adapt to a threat that they don't know the location or capabilities of. Heck, for that matter, I'm not all that opposed to arming STUDENTS... I know my share of 16 year olds that I wouldn't have a problem at all putting a gun in their hands.. Heck, we're giving full auto M-16's to 18, and sometime 17 year olds, and telling them to protect the country: is there a magic switch that makes a high school student inherently immature and untrustworthy, but worthy of that by virtue of walking across a graduation stage?
> 
> As bad as it sounds, barring a major change on societal factors that are contributing to this, our best move is just putting as many guns in the hands of good guys as we can, and just concentrate on minimizing damage. "Acceptable Losses" sounds terrible when it comes to the student subject matter we're talking about, but that's pretty much what we're facing here. Put some guns in the school, and hope that you can get somebody to dust them off after the initial shock of one or two casualties wears off, rather than just hiding in a closet and allowing them to proceed at will before the cops show up.
> 
> In my book, that's probably both the cheapest and most effective solution, if you can just get it past the political wall that is preventing it.


While I agree that unknown "deterrants" may be a quick and cheap solution and may even dissuade a potential killer from acting, who among the teaching ranks would be willing to risk their life with a 38 revolver or subcompact semi auto carry pistol to stop a wanton killer armed with a shotgun or AR? Taking nothing away from women, but they don't generally possess the macho/warrior/*******/protector mentality that some men possess that may allow some of them to step forward and act. And the vast majority of teachers are women. Pretty daunting task to ask of even the police (some of which hid behind their cars in a recent disaster). It takes a lot of practice to be confident enough to make a quick shot at 7 yards on a stationary steel target, but to shoot back at an active shooter moving target across a classroom takes much more than practice.

I do not have the answer, obviously, to this horrible state of affairs in which our youth and country find ourselves. Maybe a combination of all of the above solutions might work.


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## Navi (Jun 2, 2009)

Interesting read, https://nypost.com/2018/05/19/mom-shares-daughters-harrowing-experience-during-school-shooting/

Post is from the mother of one of the kids who was in the art room


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## bwguardian (Aug 30, 2005)

True that!


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

cman said:


> Right...
> But your argument was that it was a financially sound ROI.


. Wrong. My â€œargumentâ€, if you want to call it that, was that youâ€™re not going to wean the school districts off it. They see M&O money a LOT differently than they see bond-service money, no matter whether it makes sense in the broader picture or not. Once a bond is passed, that money might as well be on the moon as far as your average voter is concerned: when is the last time debt load was even brought up in a school board election? Now start talking teacher salaries, school lunches, textbooks, etc., and you hit home with voters: all that comes out of M&O funds. Mention to those voters bond interest rates, sinking funds, etc., and you get a blank stare.


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

RB II said:


> While I agree that unknown "deterrants" may be a quick and cheap solution and may even dissuade a potential killer from acting, who among the teaching ranks would be willing to risk their life with a 38 revolver or subcompact semi auto carry pistol to stop a wanton killer armed with a shotgun or AR? Taking nothing away from women, but they don't generally possess the macho/warrior/*******/protector mentality that some men possess that may allow some of them to step forward and act. And the vast majority of teachers are women. Pretty daunting task to ask of even the police (some of which hid behind their cars in a recent disaster). It takes a lot of practice to be confident enough to make a quick shot at 7 yards on a stationary steel target, but to shoot back at an active shooter moving target across a classroom takes much more than practice.
> 
> I do not have the answer, obviously, to this horrible state of affairs in which our youth and country find ourselves. Maybe a combination of all of the above solutions might work.


. Iâ€™m not asking a teacher to magically become a SEAL and run around the school clearing rooms.... teacher cowering in the corner with a glock>teacher cowering in the corner with an eraser.


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## BigPumaAg (Mar 16, 2018)

dwilliams35 said:


> . Wrong. My â€œargumentâ€, if you want to call it that, was that youâ€™re not going to wean the school districts off it. They see M&O money a LOT differently than they see bond-service money, no matter whether it makes sense in the broader picture or not. Once a bond is passed, that money might as well be on the moon as far as your average voter is concerned: when is the last time debt load was even brought up in a school board election? Now start talking teacher salaries, school lunches, textbooks, etc., and you hit home with voters: all that comes out of M&O funds. Mention to those voters bond interest rates, sinking funds, etc., and you get a blank stare.


Correct, debt load wasn't even mentioned in the most recent KISD Board of Trustees election a few weeks ago. It was mentioned back in November when people were trying to fight the 700 million bond consisting of a new high school that probably wasn't all that needed. Funny how quickly people forget about those things.

And you are absolutely right. School finance is an absolute shell game with different piles of money. Additionally the revenues from facility rentals like the Merrill or Legacy do not go back into paying for facility operations. They go right around straight into athletics. The M&O funds already cover the normal operations of these facilities as a sunk expense. So basically the school district makes pretty good extra coin by renting facilities.


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## Hollywood1053 (May 15, 2009)

Bozo said:


> He said the suspected shooter, that he saw wearing the trench coat, was bullied by the coaching staff regularly.


If true, this stinks to high heaven.
Anyone have any idea if this could warrant law enforcement investigation?


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## Chuck06R1 (Apr 7, 2015)

Hollywood1053 said:


> If true, this stinks to high heaven.
> Anyone have any idea if this could warrant law enforcement investigation?


I saw an interview with a kid Friday that said they played on the football team together. Apparently the claim of bullying was agaisnt the football coach but the kid being interviewed said the coach was hard on all the players and didn't single anyone out.


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## Momma's Worry (Aug 3, 2009)

*killer background ......*

was this shooter raised a Christian in a loving family ?


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## bwguardian (Aug 30, 2005)

Momma's Worry said:


> was this shooter raised a Christian in a loving family ?


I don't think so from what I heard from club coach...


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## cklimpt (Jan 4, 2010)

Momma's Worry said:


> was this shooter raised a Christian in a loving family ?


There is a video online of him dancing at a Greek Orthodox church just a few weeks ago.


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## Zeitgeist (Nov 10, 2011)

Not sure if this was mentioned earlier on the thread, but the exchange student that was killed was sponsored by Jason Cogburn who owns Boyd's One Stop at the front of the Texas City Dike. Very good people there.

Another student that was wounded was Trey Beazley's brother. Trey is known by many in the fishing community, he and his dad run a shrimp boat in Texas City and mainly troll the Texas City Ship channel. I have known Trey awhile, but actually met his little brother for the first time just two weeks ago at Topwater.

Here is ABC News video of Trenton Beazley:


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

dwilliams35 said:


> . Iâ€™m not asking a teacher to magically become a SEAL and run around the school clearing rooms.... teacher cowering in the corner with a glock>teacher cowering in the corner with an eraser.


No doubt, but how much so, and with what impacts. I would offer that a few good observant trained police officers would be a better answer. More costly, sure but the heroes in this instance reacted and engaged the shooter in 4 minutes. How many more would have died without that? (rhetorical question). They could learn the kids and potentially identify ones with issues and steer them into couseling, etc.

I truly believe the bottom line issue is mental health, door locks nor teachers with guns nor more laws against guns will stop them from killing, all of that is just so much energy expended with little to no long term real returns.


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

RB II said:


> No doubt, but how much so, and with what impacts. I would offer that a few good observant trained police officers would be a better answer. More costly, sure but the heroes in this instance reacted and engaged the shooter in 4 minutes. How many more would have died without that? (rhetorical question). They could learn the kids and potentially identify ones with issues and steer them into couseling, etc.
> 
> I truly believe the bottom line issue is mental health, door locks nor teachers with guns nor more laws against guns will stop them from killing, all of that is just so much energy expended with little to no long term real returns.


Like I hit on before: minimizing damage. Whether the media wants us to believe it or not, people have been getting killed in schools for well over a century. If they kill one person then a teacher ventilates them with two shots out of the fifteen that they fired, thatâ€™s better than if the teacherâ€™s just another casualty because the thrown math book was ineffective at stopping the threat. Mental health is of course the cause, but weâ€™ve gone centuries without fixing that problem, and I think weâ€™ll go centuries more without making a dent in it. For now itâ€™s just come up with ways to address the threat. 9mm should work nicely.


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## Tortuga (May 21, 2004)

Brings to mind Charles Whitman back in the 1960s in the University of Texas Tower... He killed 16 with a Remington 700 with a 3 cartridge bolt action capacity.. No "Assault Rifle" back then.. This kind of stuff has been going on for decades...and the cause is almost always a mental problem of some kind....


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