# Recoil guides



## jchief

Looked through and saw some old posts about them. They have been around a bit longer now. 

Who likes/doesn't like them?
Why??
Are the micro recoils good or not?
What reason do you give a customer to use or not to use?
If you do use them, which ones have you used and had good or bad luck with?

Thanks gentlemen


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## podchaser

im cerious also getting a rod built for my wife for christmas and seen that option.


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## Silverfox1

Most of my customers choose the Recoil guides on rods due to the weight reduction, the ability of the guides to flex back to form and position if stepped on, corrosion reduction and that they do not have a ceramic ring insert that can crack or chip that can cut your line and cut a fishing trip short. Using the micro guide you will need to add a few more guides which will add a little more cost or if you go with a spiral wrap you wont need as many guides.


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## jchief

Thanks Silverfox. Any special prep work?


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## CoastalBent

I use them quite a bit, but they are not indestructible. The light wire ones (size 6 single foot and the micros) can definitely break if they are bent too much. I have gone to using double foot 6's on my bass rods just because they are more durable. The light wire ones work great, but you have to be just about as careful not to abuse them as with normal guides. That said, everything Silverfox said is definitely true. I use a green dremel grinding bit to prep them.


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## jchief

So if I am building a saltwater, trout/reds rod, would this be reasonable set up??

RSG 8, 7, and finish out with 6's double foot guides? Is the black pearl coated ones better for braid?? These are REC. What tip top should I get?


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## CoastalBent

That would work... They're both fine for braid. I wouldn't say that the black pearl is any better... just a different look. For the tip top, I'd go with a Fuji TFST.


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## spook jr

When I first started building rods I used the size 6 single foot recoils and your leader knot will eventually break em. Now I use a 10-8-7 double foot then finish out with size 7 single foot. I called REC and they sent me a form that shows each size and wire diameter and the 7's are a little thicker and haven't had one break.


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## BRH

I've built a dozen or so rods with them, and personally I think they're more of a gimmick. They're OK if all you fish is mono, but the friction they create with braid is too much. They may be a little lighter than an insert guide of the same size, but if you're worried about weight just go smaller with a standard fly guide. In my opinion you're better off with a Fuji Titanium SiC. And the spring back is neat, but who is going to spend $300+ on building a rod and then leave it somewhere it might get stepped on?
I've got a couple of fly rods with the RECs, but all my other rods have Silicone Carbide.


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## adpostel

BRH said:


> I've built a dozen or so rods with them, and personally I think they're more of a gimmick. They're OK if all you fish is mono, but the friction they create with braid is too much. They may be a little lighter than an insert guide of the same size, but if you're worried about weight just go smaller with a standard fly guide. In my opinion you're better off with a Fuji Titanium SiC. And the spring back is neat, but who is going to spend $300+ on building a rod and then leave it somewhere it might get stepped on?
> I've got a couple of fly rods with the RECs, but all my other rods have Silicone Carbide.


 This is EXACTLY my thought.....


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## Silverfox1

Everything in the fishing industry is gimmick, If there wasn't new gimmicks there wouldn't be any new products on the market. I build to satisfy my customers.


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## CoastalBent

BRH said:


> who is going to spend $300+ on building a rod and then leave it somewhere it might get stepped on?




It's called the front deck of a bass boat. REC's have their place. SIC rings fall out if they get knocked around. It depends on how you treat your stuff. For me, I abuse my rods and there is an advantage to not having rings that fall out.


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## d4rdbuilder

If you do use them, I suggest you forgo the Tip Top and use a Sic guide. Especially if your planning on using braid. I've seen the braid actually groove the Tip Top.


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## BRH

Ok, fair enough. If you're a bass fisherman that ONLY fishes with mono and has a habit of stepping on your rods, then yes, they're probably a good choice. Personally I can't stand the amount of friction and noise they create when used with braid. And as far as rings falling out, all the Fuji titaniums use a "Ring Lock" type frame. You would either have to break the frame or ring to get one to come out. I may not be the biggest builder, but of the 200 or so that I've built not one has had an insert pop out. 

With today's modern high modulus graphite blanks, I'm more worried about snapping off a tip than I am damaging a guide.

And no, I would not say that everything in the fishing industry is a gimmick. I think most of it is actually quite practical.


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## BATWING

I just had a rod built not to long ago with micro guides in pearl black. I suppose the perform ok but my leader knot still gets caught on them. I have not flattened one yet but it is very difficult to string it without my glasses on. LOL!!!

I wont spend the $$$ on them again.


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## CoastalBent

BRH said:


> With today's modern high modulus graphite blanks, I'm more worried about snapping off a tip than I am damaging a guide.


True dat


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## jreynolds

I don't care for the harmonics created when using certain braids with them.


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## Trout123

I just had a rod built with them. They are micro recoils. So far I like them but they are noisy with braid.


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## stxangler38

*Recoil Guides*

This is my first post here I have been an observer for a long while and thought I would sign up . I have been building Rods for approx 8 years and I mostly now build inshore saltwater rods 6'0 - 8'6 I will build what the customer asks for though ( they are to customer ) I have been using Recoil guides for a long while and will say they are lighter by far and as for line drag that is a mith they are tuff and I highly recomend them . As a avid fisherman myself they are great . I do not use there tips on casting rods but do on spinning rods I build using the Fuji Concept 1 - 10 , 1 - 8 , and down to size 6 and it is awsome the feel and cast are great sensitivity is wonderful. Also they weigh nothing I have 7 foot rods completed weigh in under 4 oz .


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## lastcastfishin

*guides*

Dont like them i have two rods with them they are demo rods. Set up almost sameway and they dont cast as far or as smooth.


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## stxangler38

With an 1/8 oz jig head and a curodo with 30 lb braid 8 mono diameter and can cast as far or futher with recoils set up in a fuji guide concept as I can with traditional guides . I am able to throw a small top water and almost empty the spool.


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## BRH

stxangler38 said:


> With an 1/8 oz jig head and a curodo with 30 lb braid 8 mono diameter and can cast as far or futher with recoils set up in a fuji guide concept as I can with traditional guides . I am able to throw a small top water and almost empty the spool.


Um.... False... the coefficient of friction of the recoil guides is going to be much higher than any of the modern inserts, so... no, they will not cast further.

And I hate to be the one to burst your bubble, but 4 oz. for a 7' inshore rod is not light. Do a quick search and take a look at what some of the guys on here are creating.


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## stxangler38

Man you need to loose the coefficient **** and listen to somenoe with experince . 4 oz is light when the blank itself ways 1.8 I have compaired and wieghed equal rods built by rod builders and manufactures and I am well under there total rod weight . I do not need to look at what the guys here are creating I am creating and building my own That is custom rod building . I think most do not use recoil because of there price . I have many customers that I build for and will only order recoul guides . You my want to do you home work before you critisize..I will meet you anywhere in the corpus area and let you cast a 7 foot with recoils vers what ever you claim to be the best and will put money on it says I will prove you wrong in everyway .


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## BRH

stxangler38 said:


> Man you need to *1) loose the coefficient ***** and listen to *2) somenoe with experince* . *3) 4 oz is light when the blank itself ways 1.8* I have compaired and wieghed equal rods built by rod builders and manufactures and I am well under there total rod weight . I do not need to look at what the guys here are creating I am creating and building my own That is custom rod building . *4) I think most do not use recoil because of there price* . I have many customers that I build for and will only order recoul guides . You my want to do you home work before you critisize.. *5) I will meet you anywhere in the corpus area* and let you cast a 7 foot with recoils vers what ever you claim to be the best and will put money on it says I will prove you wrong in everyway .


1. Sorry&#8230; wouldn't want little things like facts getting in the way of your argument.
2. I have plenty of experience so get off your freeking high horse.
3. Apologies&#8230; I should have said&#8230; "In my opinion" 4 oz is not light. You can get a rod with a 1.8 oz blank down to around 3 oz.
4. Recoils are actually about 40% less than Titanium SiCs
5. Yeah, why don't I drive 3 hours so we can see who casts the farthest&#8230; might as well have a p*ss*ng contest while we're at it.

Don't get your panties all in a wad, dude&#8230; we're all just trying to share our opinions and knowledge on here.


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## stxangler38

Yes you are right we are all trying to gather info from each other and share knowledge but calling someone all but a lier when you have no hard core facts to back them is wrong . It is your Opinion not a proven Fact . I have been building along time and have a few years age on you so I broke the high horse long ago my friend .As for the 4 oz yea that is one of my hevier redfish rods and the heviest I have ever built but still at 4 oz not bad the blank is a white MHX 7' and it is a little larger diameter at the but than I usually build , I also am a dealer for Tour and thought I would use there splits on it looks great feels great added a little weight .All I am saying is maybe you do not like them but they perform as well or better than others until you have documented proof they do not it is not honest of you to give them a bad rap . And if you are here I will probly lose the p*ss*ng contest . I am interested in the guides you like and am going to check them out may build a rod with them .


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## Skiff




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## BRH

So because you have a "few years age on me" does that mean my 8 years of rod building is any less valuable than your 8 or so years? Come on man, don't try to pull that B.S... 


I'm still not sure why you're so upset that someone might not think the REC guides are the greatest thing in the world? It appears you signed up on this site just to defend them. Fact is, I think REC makes quality stuff... Including their recoil guides... Just not whenever its being used with braided line. Every one of my fly rods has REC's on it, and i've built plenty of inshore rods with recoils... like what others have said "if that's what my customer wants, then that's what he gets" But every single one of my inshore rods has Fuji Titanium Silicone Carbide guides.


And no, never called you a liar, just pointed out that some of your information was incorrect... after all, you just claimed yourself that you'd never built a rod using SiCs.


And being a dealer for Winn Grips... man that's awesome... I've built quite a few with their tour star splits... they're the only grips that I don't turn myself, and they've held up nicely. 0.357 oz. before being reamed is pretty light stuff for grip and butt. Too bad they don't make one to fit the Fuji SK2 yet.


And Skiff, HELL YES I will take some peanut butter jelly. You bring the suit and I'll do the dance!


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## Skiff

Hahaha! Just trying to lighten the mood
Where do you pick up one of those scales? People keep asking me how much my rods weigh and I can only guess. 
Good info on this post for REC with both views.


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## Mont

Skiff said:


> Hahaha! Just trying to lighten the mood
> Where do you pick up one of those scales? People keep asking me how much my rods weigh and I can only guess.
> Good info on this post for REC with both views.


Amazon has a nice selection of them, starting at 15 bux or so. Mine does grams and ounces and I have weighed enough ammo on it to know it's accurate.


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## Swampland

Harbor Freight has the ones Mont describes forthe same price. You have to ask for them though. They're kept under lock and key. Seems they are fair prey for certain "dealers".


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## jchief

Swampland said:


> Harbor Freight has the ones Mont describes forthe same price. You have to ask for them though. They're kept under lock and key. Seems they are fair prey for certain "dealers".


That is where I got mine at


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## stxangler38

Ok BRH I am tired of arguing with you I did not sign up here to defend recoil just to defend the facts . As I stated you have NO hard core proof of your argument between briad and REC there for let me make myself clear again you just have an opinion as I do .. Just because it is what you say does not make it a PROVEN fact .I am a open minded person and am looking into the guides you use at your suggestion and I thank you for that I believe I can use them and build on the same spacing as I do with REC guides using there fly guides . You say they are tough and that is good never know when a accident might happen . I to turn most of my grips on my mini wood lathe and just turned some of the red burl that Mudhole has in the raw block man it is great looking material. 
So on this lets move on I am not going to argue anymore about it we will get nowhere .
As for the guys interested in these types of scales I bought mine at Office Depot it is a letter scale I think it was under 30 bucks..


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## Bill Stevens

Re: Recoils - Braid - Noise

Many may equate "coefficient of friction" to noise when fishing line goes through a guide ring.

The noise created when certain braided lines such as Power Pro move through a Recoil guide - it can be pretty bad. The noise is created by the "rough surface layer" of the braid. It is essentially bouncing up and down on the guide ring which actually reduces the "drag" while the line is moving through. The line is not in constant contact with the guide ring.

Some of the braided lines have been coated with a surface agent to keep the noise down. The surface is slick and the line stays in contact with the guide the entire time - there is more drag because the surface tension is never broken. You will find that the "quiet" braids will not throw as far and the one that makes the noise.

High speed airplanes and submarines that run silent have the "sharkskin" surface to reduce friction.

The attached link will describe the effect that takes place.

http://www.smartplanet.com/blog/int...skin-coating-for-ships-planes-and-blades/1289


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## stxangler38

Makes since thanks for the info . I guess as a rod is casted the variences between each cast and when the line touches the giude and how long the line stays in contact with the guide determine the friction.


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## Jean Scurtu

BRH said:


> I've built a dozen or so rods with them, and personally I think they're more of a gimmick. They're OK if all you fish is mono, but the friction they create with braid is too much. They may be a little lighter than an insert guide of the same size, but if you're worried about weight just go smaller with a standard fly guide. In my opinion you're better off with a Fuji Titanium SiC. And the spring back is neat, but who is going to spend $300+ on building a rod and then leave it somewhere it might get stepped on?
> I've got a couple of fly rods with the RECs, but all my other rods have Silicone Carbide.


I agree with "BRH"!!!


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## rippalipp

*Rec v Sic*

The fuji sic guides are just as expensive or more and then you do have to worry about the insert or being bent or cracked.I use both,and ive built 100's and they both do the job just fine.I use REC more because they are lighter,but the SIC cast a little better.


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## Robertrinaustin

If you're rough on guides and always popping inserts, Recoils are the way to go. Are they noisy with braid? Yes. Will they grove with braid? I've seen many many more popped inserts than grooved Recoils. In fact, I've never personally seen a grooved Recoil and I've sold plenty of rods with them.

For my own rods, I don't like the Recoils. The noise is just too annoying, but I don't hesitate to recommend them to the right customer.


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## backwater

Recoils are only noisy when bowed up on a fish....does not bother me a bit. Original recoils would groove but whatever change they made I have not seen one groove in many years. 99% of what I make is with recoils and have not had one complaint. With as good as the reels are today casting distance is not a issue no matter what type guide you choose to use.


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## xxxxxQTRODS

*guides*

do you like a drippy focet, a sqeeky reel when it cast, well if u use recoils with braid u will here a loud zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz everytime u cast. this means friction, where as u do not here the zzz hardly at all with ceramic guide now. so u tell me which ones cast farther.


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## stxangler38

Do not know but mine do not zzzzzzz when casting nor do the other 3 to 4 rods the other guys on the boat or wade that are with me at the time all using Recoils as well on rods I built them.


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## backwater

stxangler38 said:


> Do not know but mine do not zzzzzzz when casting nor do the other 3 to 4 rods the other guys on the boat or wade that are with me at the time all using Recoils as well on rods I built them.


Mine do not either....As I said before..only when I am bowed up and everybody is looking at me..LOL


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## stxangler38

Amen brother at that point I do not care what sound is coming from the rod as long as there is no crack sound all is heveanly


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## xxxxxQTRODS

*zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz*



backwater said:


> Mine do not either....As I said before..only when I am bowed up and everybody is looking at me..LOL[/QUOT
> 
> okay for yall recoils are the best thing since slice bread, but yall are not using braided line on your rods. yall act like recoil guide have just been invented. they where around in the 60s in stainless and they where replaced with ceramic. each to his own im just speeking from year experience. i also seen that theyre some new cremic with a lock ring system that may be something to look at in the future.


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## stxangler38

Ok QTRODS I am not saying there the greatest thing ever but they do the job well and as for braid I have 15 rods and reals from bait cast to spinning and everyone has braid 30 LB test 8 LB diameter I will send you a pic to prove it .


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## Skiff

Which Recoils do you use for your bay rods? Doubles all the way or micro's? I haven't tried them, but enjoy the controversy. I think you guys work for REC and 100 new builders just bought a set of Recoils to try and hear the zzzzzzzzzzzzzz!


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## stxangler38

I wish I did work for REC might be rich ? I just like the fact there simple light and durable and. 
On a 7 ft casting rod here is what I use
1 - double foot 10
1 - double foot 8
Then I switch to single foot spinning guides in a size 6 the rest of the way I use 9 size 6' s total .


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## xxxxxQTRODS

*zzzzzzzzzzz*



stxangler38 said:


> Ok QTRODS I am not saying there the greatest thing ever but they do the job well and as for braid I have 15 rods and reals from bait cast to spinning and everyone has braid 30 LB test 8 LB diameter I will send you a pic to prove it .


well if u do not here the noise from braid through a titaniam wire guide. they do sell hearing aids. haha


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## stxangler38

Do Not need them You all just can not believe the truth you are soley against them and will pull anything out of your tails to de grade them .


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## xxxxxQTRODS

stxangler38 said:


> I wish I did work for REC might be rich ? I just like the fact there simple light and durable and.
> On a 7 ft casting rod here is what I use
> 1 - double foot 10
> 1 - double foot 8
> Then I switch to single foot spinning guides in a size 6 the rest of the way I use 9 size 6' s total .


i like the layout of guides with the 6 the rest the way u might not here the zing as bad. just didnot read close enough before speeking and putting foot in mouth. i assumed that u was running micros. sorry please except my opology bennie!


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## stxangler38

Not a problem I did try micros on the first rod and did not like the set up I like to tie a 20 inch mono leader to the end of my braid with a uni knot and I felt as though that was to small of a guide to be running a uni knot threw so I went this rout instead and works very well.


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## kemahguy

*Recoil Guides*

A few years ago I bought a fishing tackle unlimited greenrod w/ recoil guides on it. I bought a new curado at the time and filled it w/ 30 lb. suffix braid. I was so disappointed in the friction and noise the braid caused and the casting distance was poor. I reverted back to mono for a while and didn't think I'd go back to braid. I eventually decided to try braid again when suffix 832 came out and also power pro slick 8. It made a huge difference, the line is quiet, it's smooth as butter and the casting distance is far better than mono in my opinion! I just wanted to make the comment that switching to the new super braids made all the difference in the world and now I love using my rods that have recoil guides on them. It just took me a while to get everything dialed in and figured out.


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## jchief

spook jr said:


> When I first started building rods I used the size 6 single foot recoils and your leader knot will eventually break em. Now I use a 10-8-7 double foot then finish out with size 7 single foot. I called REC and they sent me a form that shows each size and wire diameter and the 7's are a little thicker and haven't had one break.


What model number is the 7 single you use?? RSPG??


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