# Deer Lease Rant



## wfishtx (Apr 10, 2006)

So, I've been hunting a piece of property up in San Saba County for the better part of 10 years. A couple of the other guys on the lease have been there for nearly 25 years.

Long story short, the land owner passes away back in February. The property is inherited by her grandson and he notifies us today that he's doubling the price of the lease for this coming season.

He's owned the property for roughly 6 mos and now he wants to come to us 3 months before the opening of the season and doubles the price. Not only is that a ****ty way to do business, the price itself is completely absurd given the quality of the deer and the size of the land.

I'm trying to ride the high road here, but you don't know how bad I want to pay the new price and take everybody I know up there and start filling tags.

Ok, I feel a little better....:cheers:


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## saltwatersensations (Aug 30, 2004)

Typical. HE inherits land and you inherit an assholee


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## Texaspainter (Mar 11, 2013)

ya that stinks. Been there, done that.

My wife's family had hunted a place for probably 25 or so years (3 generations - her Grandfather, her Dad and Her). After we were married I joined in and hunted with them the last 10 years of those. When the land owner finally died @ age 96 (Wife and her dad went to the funeral, that's how close her family was to the land owner), the son who inherited the place called one day soon after the funeral and told us we were being kicked off the place, that he was going to lease it to someone else. It was a handshake deal with no lease paperwork so we were screwed. 

Man do I still miss that place! Some good memories were made there for sure.


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## Harbormaster (May 26, 2000)

That's how we lost our lease between Llano and Fredericksburg. The old man died and the son in law took over. He thought all the deer we shot were on the property. He didn't know they were shot on the fence lines or maybe a little bit on the other side.

He more than doubled the price and had guys from Houston in camper trailers up by the well because they wouldn't stay in the old nasty "haunted" house. That lasted one year and they were gone.

I was on the place for 18 years with a couple other guys that had been there for over 25.


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## Sgrem (Oct 5, 2005)

Life is too short.
I would rather hunt public land....
A simple decline....and move on.
....he wont find replacements for this season and will call you back. To which you decline again.


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## Main Frame 8 (Mar 16, 2007)

wfishtx said:


> So, I've been hunting a piece of property up in San Saba County for the better part of 10 years. A couple of the other guys on the lease have been there for nearly 25 years.
> 
> Long story short, the land owner passes away back in February. The property is inherited by her grandson and he notifies us today that he's doubling the price of the lease for this coming season.
> 
> ...


 Take the plunge, pay the new price (if there are populations to support filling freezers for the new price) and start looking for a 2019 lease now. This is the worst time to be looking if you really want time to evaluate your options and minimize worries that you'll be loading up blinds and feeders again this time next year. Good Luck. Hate that it happened.


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## Modelace (Feb 6, 2017)

I've had it happen to me. 20 years ago, I bought my ranch and have never looked back.
At age 83, I have no idea how many years I have to hunt, but my son inherits the place and both sons, grandsons and granddaughters hunt.
When you count the dollars you have spent on leases, the reality sets in.
If you are a Texas Vet, I highly recommend you look into purchase of you own place where YOU make the rules.
Thanks for listening.


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## Hayniedude24 (Jun 15, 2016)

Main Frame 8 said:


> Take the plunge, pay the new price (if there are populations to support filling freezers for the new price) and start looking for a 2019 lease now. This is the worst time to be looking if you really want time to evaluate your options and minimize worries that you'll be loading up blinds and feeders again this time next year. Good Luck. Hate that it happened.


This. Not saying shoot it out but hey, double the cost like that, find the value somewhere then go on down the road.


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## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

Main Frame 8 said:


> Take the plunge, pay the new price (if there are populations to support filling freezers for the new price) and start looking for a 2019 lease now. This is the worst time to be looking if you really want time to evaluate your options and minimize worries that you'll be loading up blinds and feeders again this time next year.


 ^^^
It is way too late to be looking for a 2018 lease now.
I think what the new owner is setting himself up for is a new group every year who don't respect his property. A good lease requires both side to do right. A bad landowner won't keep good leasers.


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## BullyARed (Jun 19, 2010)

I think I should go into Land Share business. Purchase 1,000ac for $1,000,000, and sell to 100 people at $15,000 a share. Each share owner has 10ac to shoot in rotation basis. Charge $1,000/year/person for "maintenance" . That $100K/year for after you get back $1.5M!). Just like time share condo! Anyone wants to be partner?


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## Fishtexx (Jun 29, 2004)

Happened to me 10 years ago. I moved on and never looked back, although I loved that place.


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## SSST (Jun 9, 2011)

We had this happen on a Llano lease we had for 20 years. The old man died in a plane crash, and his 20k acres went for sale. They had enough sense to wait til the week after season to kick us off though, then they gave us the weekend to get our stuff or it was theirs. We were a little upset how that went down, but not a dang thing we could do about it.


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## kweber (Sep 20, 2005)

Harbormaster said:


> That's how we lost our lease between Llano and Fredericksburg. The old man died and the son in law took over. He thought all the deer we shot were on the property. He didn't know they were shot on the fence lines or maybe a little bit on the other side.
> 
> He more than doubled the price and had guys from Houston in camper trailers up by the well because they wouldn't stay in the old nasty "haunted" house. That lasted one year and they were gone.
> 
> I was on the place for 18 years with a couple other guys that had been there for over 25.


that's a dang cool hunting camp-house...
I mean, that's the perfect deer-camp...
beats campers all to heck...


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## Friendswoodmatt (Feb 22, 2005)

"Purchase 1,000ac for $1,000,000" == where is land 1000/acre? I am sure it exists -- but honestly its prob so far away from a population center -- it would be hard to lease-- just my .02


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## RedXCross (Aug 7, 2005)

Happened to us in San Angelo, I hunt 35 minutes from my house now with better deer and people.
We never knew what was gonna be missing or tampered with in San Angelo, we fixed it for good!!


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## bigfishtx (Jul 17, 2007)

Harbormaster said:


> That's how we lost our lease between Llano and Fredericksburg. The old man died and the son in law took over. He thought all the deer we shot were on the property. He didn't know they were shot on the fence lines or maybe a little bit on the other side.
> 
> He more than doubled the price and had guys from Houston in camper trailers up by the well because they wouldn't stay in the old nasty "haunted" house. That lasted one year and they were gone.
> 
> I was on the place for 18 years with a couple other guys that had been there for over 25.


So you are admitting that you poached deer from the neighbor? Or is this a misprint?


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## cva34 (Dec 22, 2008)

*lease*



saltwatersensations said:


> Typical. HE inherits land and you inherit an assholee


great way to put it!!!!


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## al_carl (Jan 20, 2012)

We looked at a lease outside Bandera but it was headed for a similar outcome. Owner was getting way up there. 3 family members already lived on the property and weren't fond of the hunting going on in the back. Just looked like it was going to turn into an ugly situation soon. 

Best of luck to you.


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## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

> So you are admitting that you poached deer from the neighbor?


Yes he is, but we checked the statute of limitations and he's okay on that offense.

OP I'd walk. Never liked extortion and don't care for being treated like that.

TH


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## Tails-Up (Mar 4, 2017)

bigfishtx said:


> So you are admitting that you poached deer from the neighbor? Or is this a misprint?


thats what i read.


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## fy0834 (Jan 18, 2011)

Need more info...
What were you paying?
What does he want?

Help us be advocates for you.


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## Profish00 (May 21, 2004)

bigfishtx said:


> So you are admitting that you poached deer from the neighbor? Or is this a misprint?


Hes 96 years old, ask him if he cares :cheers:


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## FREON (Jun 14, 2005)

#Outlaw4Sure


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## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

Profish00 said:


> Hes 96 years old, ask him if he cares :cheers:


At least he had the decency to corn the neighbors fencelines for him. :cheers:


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## Rack Ranch (May 25, 2004)

You didn't already have a signed lease agreement and payment rendered for the 2018-2019 season?


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## wfishtx (Apr 10, 2006)

Quick update - everyone on the lease has declined the new price, but we're waiting for the new landowner to call us and ask us what our decision is. I figure the longer we take to give him an answer, the less time he has to find replacements. I guess he'll be calling in the next day or two.

We're heading up there next weekend to bring home our stuff. 

Quick question for the brain trust. The original land owner allowed us to take over an old metal feed barn she had on the property that wasn't being used and it was turned into our camp house. We basically modernized it over the years and it had everything but a working toilet (its how we kept the wives from wanting to spend the weekend up there :biggrin. Everything from insulation to cabinets, a/c, heater, etc. We even built the beds that were in it.

How much ownership does the new owner have regarding the contents of the camp house (i.e. everything that we added)?

I know my chances of finding anything this year are slim to none and slim doesn't stand much of chance, but luckily I've got a back up plan to make sure I can still get my son out deer hunting. However, if anyone knows of anything with in about a 3 hour drive of Columbus for the 2019 season that allows Dads and their 10 year old son to hunt, please keep me in mind.


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## wfishtx (Apr 10, 2006)

Rack Ranch said:


> You didn't already have a signed lease agreement and payment rendered for the 2018-2019 season?


No sir. One of the pros and cons of the place was it was all done on a handshake and had been done that way for 20+ years.


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## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

wfishtx said:


> Quick update - everyone on the lease has declined the new price, but we're waiting for the new landowner to call us and ask us what our decision is. I figure the longer we take to give him an answer, the less time he has to find replacements. I guess he'll be calling in the next day or two.
> 
> We're heading up there next weekend to bring home our stuff.
> 
> ...


Anything you attached to the structure is his basically. Screwed in, nailed in, plumbed in, etc...


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## Hayniedude24 (Jun 15, 2016)

Yea all improvements on existing fixed structure will need to stay. 20 ??, years call it all good. 

If you donâ€™t mind me asking what did he jack up/double the cost too?


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## wfishtx (Apr 10, 2006)

Haute Pursuit said:


> Anything you attached to the structure is his basically. Screwed in, nailed in, plumbed in, etc...


Good to know. I'm guessing it has to stay in its current condition? LOL


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## bigfishtx (Jul 17, 2007)

I have been on lots of leases over the years, and they usually end up bad when there is a change in managers/owners. Enjoy a good one while you have it, because someday you will lose it no matter how good of a tenant you were.


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## wfishtx (Apr 10, 2006)

Texashookset said:


> Yea all improvements on existing fixed structure will need to stay. 20 ??, years call it all good.
> 
> If you donâ€™t mind me asking what did he jack up/double the cost too?


700-800 acres - price went from $6k to $12k

Cost is split between 5 of us (4 hunters). We have an older gentleman that has been on the lease for 15-16 years and although he used to hunt, he's moved on to cooking and telling stories full time....LOL. He insists on paying equal to the rest of us. We usually make sure he takes home a doe every year.

Deer quality has deteriorated a lot over the last few years. The neighboring landowner has about 300 acres and he's got hunters in there every single weekend filling tags. Neighbors on the other 2 sides have put up high fences. Just a lot of pressure on deer in the area.

I don't mind paying $2500/gun, but this place just isn't worth that.


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## DA REEL DADDY (Jun 7, 2005)

Yup get your stuff. You're probably doing yourself a favor if your neighbors are shooting everything in sight I wouldn't want to hunt there anyway.


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## Hayniedude24 (Jun 15, 2016)

Yea bud thatâ€™s steep for what it is now. Best of luck to you though.


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## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

wfishtx said:


> Good to know. I'm guessing it has to stay in its current condition? LOL


I guess you could arrange "an act of God" on it... but I'd be careful about it! :cheers:


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## bigfishtx (Jul 17, 2007)

wfishtx said:


> 700-800 acres - price went from $6k to $12k
> 
> Cost is split between 5 of us (4 hunters). We have an older gentleman that has been on the lease for 15-16 years and although he used to hunt, he's moved on to cooking and telling stories full time....LOL. He insists on paying equal to the rest of us. We usually make sure he takes home a doe every year.
> 
> ...


Problem is, finding a place for less will be very hard. If hunting is your passion and you do not have another place lined up, you may want to pay one more season then start looking after the first of the year.


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## wfishtx (Apr 10, 2006)

bigfishtx said:


> Problem is, finding a place for less will be very hard. If hunting is your passion and you do not have another place lined up, you may want to pay one more season then start looking after the first of the year.


I've been secretly shopping and asking around and I know I'll have to pay at least $2500 for anything with quality. I love to hunt, but its starting to be more about my son. Its rare I'll even take a gun to the stand with me anymore unless I'm by myself.

I have a buddy who has a couple thousand acres in Lampasas County (he owns it), so getting a few doe hunts in will not be a problem for this year or any year for that matter.

Unless something falls in my lap, I'll probably just save my money this year and spend the season looking for something next year.


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## wfishtx (Apr 10, 2006)

Haute Pursuit said:


> I guess you could arrange "an act of God" on it... but I'd be careful about it! :cheers:


I was thinking more along the lines of dismantling and leaving it all in a big pile in the middle of the barn. He'd retain ownership, he'd just have to put it all back together.

Come to think of it, I'm not sure we attached anything to the structure. The framing is all metal and I'm pretty sure we didn't want to go through the hassle of drilling through the metal.


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## kweber (Sep 20, 2005)

wfishtx said:


> So, I've been hunting a piece of property up in San Saba County for the better part of 10 years. A couple of the other guys on the lease have been there for nearly 25 years.
> 
> Long story short, the land owner passes away back in February. The property is inherited by her grandson and he notifies us today that he's doubling the price of the lease for this coming season.
> 
> ...


haul off everything and leave...
you'll never have a decent relationship w/him...


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

Sux that you are losing a place with tons of memories. But i have to ask, 700-800 acres for 4 hunters in hill country is a pretty open lease. So $16/acre is the new price. How does that compare on an acre for acre basis on other places in that region today? That is the actual value of the lease, not how much you were paying per gun, unless the # of hunters was mandated by owner.


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## SSST (Jun 9, 2011)

RB II said:


> Sux that you are losing a place with tons of memories. But i have to ask, 700-800 acres for 4 hunters in hill country is a pretty open lease. So $16/acre is the new price. How does that compare on an acre for acre basis on other places in that region today? That is the actual value of the lease, not how much you were paying per gun, unless the # of hunters was mandated by owner.


We pay $15/acre for a more crowded Hill Country place, so it's not a bad price, but sounds like this place isn't worth the asking price. Just depends on location, we are lucky and have no hunting pressure around, which is not the norm.


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## wfishtx (Apr 10, 2006)

RB II said:


> Sux that you are losing a place with tons of memories. But i have to ask, 700-800 acres for 4 hunters in hill country is a pretty open lease. So $16/acre is the new price. How does that compare on an acre for acre basis on other places in that region today? That is the actual value of the lease, not how much you were paying per gun, unless the # of hunters was mandated by owner.


It's probably fairly comparable if you look strictly at price, but the quality and quantity of deer is not comparable to other leases in that county.

Again, I'm not so ticked off about the price as I am that the guy came in 3 mos before season and doubled the price. He could have easily called in March when he got the place and told us he was raising the price. Or he could have come to us right now and said, you guys aren't paying enough but since it's this close to season I'm not going to change the price but be prepared for an increase next yr and I'll tell you in January what the new price will be. A much better way of handling the situation.


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## al_carl (Jan 20, 2012)

wfishtx said:


> Again, Iâ€™m not so ticked off about the price as I am that the guy came in 3 mos before season and doubled the price.


He may have screwed himself too, as it will be hard to fill those spots this close to the season.

On the other hand, he may have his own group of friends that he wants to put on the property and came up with a number that would make him happy if you stayed or happy if you left.

Or he could just be a jerk.


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## Capt. Bobby Hill (Mar 30, 2010)

i have a feeling we are going to loose our lease in East Texas this year. It has been for sale for years without any real interest, well that changed this summer and is now under contract. I believe the company has until the end of this month to close so we will see what happens, but its not sounding good. I just pray that if the deal does go through they will at least let us hunt this season before kicking us off


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## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

> Good to know. I'm guessing it has to stay in its current condition? LOL


If you can remove it without damage to the structure take it with you.

TH


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## banpouchi (Feb 21, 2011)

This is not really an argument for the way the guy treated you, only presenting a different side.

I have been in the lease game for over 30 years, both as a lessor and lessee. I have been leasing for the current landowner for over 25 of those years. I currently lease three pastures. Some of the folks I have leased for, I no longer lease for them for many reason, however the most popular reason is land passed to next of kin.

Not from me, but I have been around guys who leased for many years from one land owner long term, maybe the price went up some but most time it did not keep up with what one can get for the property. As a lessor, if I have good people, I hate to ever raise the fee as you never know what the next group will be like. Over the years, I have seen good and bad. Right now the least amount of time my hunters have been with me is about 5 years. One guy has 22 years. Once the groups leave for one reason or the other, the price usually goes up to catch up with the current rate. Deer lease is like any other commodity, prices are going up. It is a business and money for the ranch, farm or just an individual.

I have a long term relationship with one of my current landowners. We are both getting long in tooth. If he passes, his son will take over. Yes I have a relationship with him but not like his Dad. He has already taken over the running of the day to day of the ranch. He does not run it like his Dad. Doesn't matter wether I agree or disagree on what he does as it is his land. He is dozing some of the woods. I have not said a thing as I know the answer, it is his land and he will do as he sees fit.

Kinda goes with the price of a deer lease. When you get the new owner, if you have been on the land for a long time, he will go up on the price as several posters have already mentioned. He most likely wants you to stay but really (due to inexperienced) doesn't know how to go about it. He sets his price by what the boys down at the local coffee shop or newspaper says. Lease prices have gone out of site. I will say if I loose what I have, I can't afford it. Is it fair or right, don't know, but it is what it is. As long as there are folks who will pay the fare, it will go on.

One thing I will disagree with previous posters is that he can not lease it this close to the season. Like I said, I have been doing this for many years and it never ceases to amaze me but every year, I can count on at least one call within the last month to one week before the season. If you go out on I-10 or I-69 during the week before deer season and watch the stands, feeders etc going down the road to be set up, you to will be amazed..

So yes he has plenty of time to release the land. Will he get what he wants, you bet. Is it right or wrong, I can not make that call.

To the Op, sorry you have had that happen. Maybe go talk to the guy and approach it form a business decision and not let emotions run from being there so many years. Might work, might not. However, finding a good lease this late might prove difficult. You say hunting is not so hot. Explain that to the new land owner using data and not opinion. It might work, might not.


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## bigfishtx (Jul 17, 2007)

banpouchi said:


> This is not really an argument for the way the guy treated you, only presenting a different side.
> 
> I have been in the lease game for over 30 years, both as a lessor and lessee. I have been leasing for the current landowner for over 25 of those years. I currently lease three pastures. Some of the folks I have leased for, I no longer lease for them for many reason, however the most popular reason is land passed to next of kin.
> 
> ...


They will lease it immediately at the price they are gong to. That is still pretty cheap all things considered. Not many people hunt that neck of the woods thinking they are going to be killing big trophy bucks.
Sometime you don't realize what you had until you lose it. 
I don't blame the op for being upset, that is a big jump, but, IMO still a reasonable price.


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## Harbormaster (May 26, 2000)

bigfishtx said:


> So you are admitting that you poached deer from the neighbor? Or is this a misprint?


Back then they were working cattle ranches and didn't care. Sometimes if they saw us cleaning deer while driving by they would stop and help us drink our beer. It was a whole different world back then. :smile:


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## ROCKSPRINGS HUNTER (Dec 14, 2008)

Same happened to us. Had a lease for 10+ years. We were really good friends with


the owner. As soon as he passed his son raised price of lease. We paid for a few 


more seasons, then his wife came into the picture and was changing all kinds of 


things. Now we bought our own ranch and should have done this sooner. Best thing 


you can do. Add up all the money and time you spend on a lease over the years! 


better to buy your own spot!


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## DCUnger (Jul 25, 2012)

ROCKSPRINGS HUNTER said:


> Same happened to us. Had a lease for 10+ years. We were really good friends with
> 
> the owner. As soon as he passed his son raised price of lease. We paid for a few
> 
> ...


X2


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## cajunasian (Mar 7, 2007)

I tried to buy my own hunting property. The wife said No. Sometimes it's easier to deal with a bad lessor.


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## grayson (Oct 21, 2011)

This is why we put a long term written lease agreement in place -


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## fy0834 (Jan 18, 2011)

wfishtx said:


> Itâ€™s probably fairly comparable if you look strictly at price, but the quality and quantity of deer is not comparable to other leases in that county.
> 
> Again, Iâ€™m not so ticked off about the price as I am that the guy came in 3 mos before season and doubled the price. He could have easily called in March when he got the place and told us he was raising the price. Or he could have come to us right now and said, you guys arenâ€™t paying enough but since itâ€™s this close to season Iâ€™m not going to change the price but be prepared for an increase next yr and Iâ€™ll tell you in January what the new price will be. A much better way of handling the situation.


I would go have a FTF and tell him the above... he may understand and make a concession this year... next year you may stay or move on. Plenty of time for that election. Does not hurt to have good communication. Burning bridges not a good practice... for either party.


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## Main Frame 8 (Mar 16, 2007)

ROCKSPRINGS HUNTER said:


> Same happened to us. Had a lease for 10+ years. We were really good friends with
> 
> the owner. As soon as he passed his son raised price of lease. We paid for a few
> 
> ...


 Different strokes for different folks. I prefer to pay a lease fee and have the larger acreage to hunt, not to mention the camaraderie of the buddies I hunt with. Assuming @ $2500 an acre for the area we're in, I'd need about $18 million to buy that sized ranch. On the high end, I spend all-in @ $3500- $4,000 per year (fee, feed, gas, food , beer, misc stuff). It's a year round lease, 90 minutes from the house so it gets used a lot by me. All electric, water, walk-in cooler, etc is baked into the lease fee. I don't have to worry about maintaining fences, putting in a well, house, utilities, insurance, taxes and all of the "stuff" associated with owning land. To me, it's like golf. I like that too but I'm not going to buy my own golf course. The lease concept certainly caters to those that don't have the appetite to buy land.


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## BBCAT (Feb 2, 2010)

Remove your stuff, don't tell him and string him along as long as possible.


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## fy0834 (Jan 18, 2011)

Landowners want to have good relationships with their hunters...
Your landowner is a new landowner... he doesnâ€™t realize the advantage of the two-way relationship. You may have to be humble and help him along.


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## ROCKSPRINGS HUNTER (Dec 14, 2008)

I hear where your coming from MF8. We would probably still be on that lease if the original owner was still alive. 


Even though we are not hunting on 1000+ acres we still see the same animals and some even bigger! 
To see red stags on 60 acres along with big axis bucks, I'd say it turned out well for us. And we all know what comes with buying property, Work! and I will have to say I enjoy being out on my property doing it. 


We bought this place on account of having a good time with friends and family & bagging some meat. And knowing that if we are wanting to shoot book class whitetail we will book a south texas hunt for that.


Plus, its an investment.. For some reason if we need to sell it, we'll get more than what we paid for it. 


We are ag exempt. So cost of taxes are not bad at all!


At the end of the day its all about what you yourself are wanting. We all have different opinions.


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## wfishtx (Apr 10, 2006)

Thought I'd give everyone a quick update on this.

We went back to the land owner and offered to meet him in the middle between what we were paying and what he wanted us to pay just for this season since it is so close and none of us had been shopping for a lease. Long story short, he said nope, not going to happen. We've got 30 days to get our stuff off.

He did agree to pay for the contents of our camp house, which I was pretty surprised by.

Come to find out, he plans to do multiple leases of this place for each season. He's going to do separate leases for dove hunting, bow season, rifle season, and spring turkey season. On top of all those leases, he's planning on doing hog hunts year round even during deer season. 

Everything happens for reason and I'm glad we don't have to deal with this idiot going forward. On to something bigger and better. :cheers:


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## Lunkerman (Dec 27, 2004)

Guy sounds greedy. With all the hunters he plans on bringing in I would think he'll run off the game animals.


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## boom! (Jul 10, 2004)

These threads are hilarious. Keep them coming!


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## Modelace (Feb 6, 2017)

You lease, it happens! The only permanent fix is to get off the pot and buy a place.


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## wfishtx (Apr 10, 2006)

Modelace said:


> You lease, it happens! The only permanent fix is to get off the pot and buy a place.


You think they'll take a check? :biggrin:


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## kweber (Sep 20, 2005)

wfishtx said:


> Thought I'd give everyone a quick update on this.
> 
> We went back to the land owner and offered to meet him in the middle between what we were paying and what he wanted us to pay just for this season since it is so close and none of us had been shopping for a lease. Long story short, he said nope, not going to happen. We've got 30 days to get our stuff off.
> 
> ...


seen plenty of over-hunted, shot-out day lease placesâ€¦
word will get out...
he'll have skeleton in a couple yrs...


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## Modelace (Feb 6, 2017)

wfishtx said:


> You think they'll take a check? :biggrin:


They take mine and have for 20 years. How's your credit??


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## rwooldri (Mar 6, 2006)

Main Frame 8 said:


> Different strokes for different folks. I prefer to pay a lease fee and have the larger acreage to hunt, not to mention the camaraderie of the buddies I hunt with. Assuming @ $2500 an acre for the area we're in, I'd need about $18 million to buy that sized ranch. On the high end, I spend all-in @ $3500- $4,000 per year (fee, feed, gas, food , beer, misc stuff). It's a year round lease, 90 minutes from the house so it gets used a lot by me. All electric, water, walk-in cooler, etc is baked into the lease fee. I don't have to worry about maintaining fences, putting in a well, house, utilities, insurance, taxes and all of the "stuff" associated with owning land. To me, it's like golf. I like that too but I'm not going to buy my own golf course. The lease concept certainly caters to those that don't have the appetite to buy land.


There are advantages on either side of this argument I guess. But when you own a piece of property, it's yours and you get to make the rules. And in the end, you (or a descendant) will get a pretty good return on every penny put into it.


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## wfishtx (Apr 10, 2006)

Modelace said:


> They take mine and have for 20 years. How's your credit??


Its good enough, but I'm not looking to go into a few million dollars worth of debt just because some idiot land owner has different plans for his newly acquired parcel of land.

Heck, my little 9 acres of paradise I live on today keeps me plenty busy. Certainly not looking to add to my current list of chores.

I have plenty of friends and plenty of places to hunt with or without a lease anyway. With time, I'm sure I'll find an even better place and I'll probably meet a few new friends along the way. :cheers:


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## boom! (Jul 10, 2004)

rwooldri said:


> There are advantages on either side of this argument I guess. But when you own a piece of property, it's yours and you get to make the rules. And in the end, you (or a descendant) will get a pretty good return on every penny put into it.


The "pretty good return" happens only if or when you sell it. Other than that it is a bunch of work and expenses. When I hear that ranchers get rich leasing to hunters, I question who the idiots really are.


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## bwguardian (Aug 30, 2005)

boom! said:


> The "pretty good return" happens only if or when you sell it. Other than that it is a bunch of work and expenses. When I hear that ranchers get rich leasing to hunters, I question who the idiots really are.


Yes, ranchers lease to hunt and run livestock mainly to pay property taxes...if there's oil and/or gas on the place, that's where the money comes from.

We hunted on a 10,000 acre tract well west of Menard from the late 70's to the early 00's. In the 90's the old man turned it over to his son given he would start staying in an assisted living facility in San Angelo. The son loved Las Vegas and got greedy and it went down hill from there...


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## Modelace (Feb 6, 2017)

wfishtx said:


> Its good enough, but I'm not looking to go into a few million dollars worth of debt just because some idiot land owner has different plans for his newly acquired parcel of land.
> 
> Heck, my little 9 acres of paradise I live on today keeps me plenty busy. Certainly not looking to add to my current list of chores.
> 
> I have plenty of friends and plenty of places to hunt with or without a lease anyway. With time, I'm sure I'll find an even better place and I'll probably meet a few new friends along the way. :cheers:


Good luck, hope you find a better place and some new friends.
If you are not into a few chores, it's better that you don't buy.
I would hate to have a lazy neighbor!


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## boom! (Jul 10, 2004)

bwguardian said:


> Yes, ranchers lease to hunt and run livestock mainly to pay property taxes...if there's oil and/or gas on the place, that's where the money comes from.
> 
> We hunted on a 10,000 acre tract well west of Menard from the late 70's to the early 00's. In the 90's the old man turned it over to his son given he would start staying in an assisted living facility in San Angelo. The son loved Las Vegas and got greedy and it went down hill from there...


Thereâ€™s not much oil around our parts, but we are blessed to have great water wells. Without oil I think the only way to make a million dollars with a ranch is to start with 3 million. You are right about the hunters and cattle maybe covering the taxes. Iâ€™ll also add that I bet that there are many more problem hunters than problem property owners. When you find a good match both sides should cherish the relationship.


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## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

boom! said:


> Thereâ€™s not much oil around our parts, but we are blessed to have great water wells. Without oil I think the only way to make a million dollars with a ranch is to start with 3 million. You are right about the hunters and cattle maybe covering the taxes. Iâ€™ll also add that I bet that there are many more problem hunters than problem property owners. When you find a good match both sides should cherish the relationship.


Yep... our last lease lasted 32 years. Ranchers son passed away after he did and the wife got old enough that she needed to move into town. Just the way it goes sometimes.


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## wfishtx (Apr 10, 2006)

Modelace said:


> Good luck, hope you find a better place and some new friends.
> If you are not into a few chores, it's better that you don't buy.
> I would hate to have a lazy neighbor!


A few chores? Ha.....I paid a good portion of my college tuition working a 6600 acre cattle ranch in North TX and I can promise you its more than a "few chores".

You probably wouldn't know what it means to manage a large piece of land if I drew it out on a your hand and slapped you in the face with it.

I'm a lot of things, but lazy ain't one of them.


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## Friendswoodmatt (Feb 22, 2005)

I have a different take on things-- here is my take on it -- you own a rent house-- have tennants you like for years-- they are good tenants and you are getting up in years and dont feel like going through the hassle of getting new ones. you pass away -- and your kids come into the house-- they do some research and find out the current rate to rent is 2-3x what you are charging -- they then raise the rent to to the current tenants -- they are a holes? Really? Ridiculous. 
Just because they want to make money off the assets the inherited they are bad guys? I disagree -- now they can be nice about it, but if you inherited say a shelby cobra from your parents you never worked on nor did you really drive and the guy down the street helped dad with the car and drove it on weekends and took it to shows in return for working on it-- dad passes and the guy down the street stops by to take the car for the weekend-- you say no-- so he offers to rent it-- what are you gonna say? -- what is he offers to buy it for much less than market value-- Are you gonna sell it to him for some low dollar price-- or are you an A-hole?


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## al_carl (Jan 20, 2012)

Friendswoodmatt said:


> I have a different take on things-- here is my take on it -- you own a rent house-- have tennants you like for years-- they are good tenants and you are getting up in years and dont feel like going through the hassle of getting new ones. you pass away -- and your kids come into the house-- they do some research and find out the current rate to rent is 2-3x what you are charging -- they then raise the rent to to the current tenants -- they are a holes? Really? Ridiculous.


Going through this exact scenario...and I'm the A-hole!

Dad didn't raise rent on a commercial building for 15 years. I told the current renter what the market value was, what rent would be if dad had done a modest 5% annual adjustment (still under market), what the place he left before moving into our building was charging, and then what the tiny correction we would be making would be. He initially got huffy and said he was going to find a new place. I politely told him that I understood and that we appreciated him being there for so many years and if he looked around and didn't find anything comparable that we would love to continue to have him there. 3 days later he realized I was still doing him a favor.

All that being said, if you read the OPs update, it would be like me going to my renter, jacking up his price and moving 2 mobile homes and a dog grooming trailer onto the property that he now has to contend with.


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## Friendswoodmatt (Feb 22, 2005)

I wasnt specifically addressing the op -- that deal is a terrible one-- rather other comments made on the thread


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## al_carl (Jan 20, 2012)

Friendswoodmatt said:


> I wasnt specifically addressing the op -- that deal is a terrible one-- rather other comments made on the thread


:cheers:


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## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

Friendswoodmatt said:


> I wasnt specifically addressing the op -- that deal is a terrible one-- rather other comments made on the thread


Hey Matt... did you get your house finished?


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## Friendswoodmatt (Feb 22, 2005)

Yep -- well its finished-- still hanging mirrors and towel holders etc. but tis finished inside they are re-doing some roads and the pad for the barn right now-- almost moved in too -- just waiting on some furniture to get finished


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## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

Friendswoodmatt said:


> Yep -- well its finished-- still hanging mirrors and towel holders etc. but tis finished inside they are re-doing some roads and the pad for the barn right now-- almost moved in too -- just waiting on some furniture to get finished


Y'all been getting any rain?


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## sea sick (Feb 9, 2006)

wfishtx said:


> A few chores? Ha.....I paid a good portion of my college tuition working a 6600 acre cattle ranch in North TX and I can promise you its more than a "few chores".
> 
> You probably wouldn't know what it means to manage a large piece of land if I drew it out on a your hand and slapped you in the face with it.
> 
> I'm a lot of things, but lazy ain't one of them.


Does the back of your hand hurt, after you jack slapped ol Modelace like that hahahahha

If I were you just pay the difference. Which is the going rate anyhow, for the majority of places. Then you can hunt and look for another place for next year. 
Maybe make a deal with him over the contents of the cabins, knock it off the price.


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## Friendswoodmatt (Feb 22, 2005)

almost 3 inches last couple weeks-- well in the bottom still went dry-- but it was hand dug and only 26' deep so I had them drill it to 60' and am adding another well towards the back-- ranch will be very well watered-- 3.5 wells on it and gravity flow to most all of it.
It takes time money and a ton of work to make all the project come around! To be honest-- I had no idea how much work this place has turned out to be, if it was a lease --I wouldnt worry but it isnt


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## kweber (Sep 20, 2005)

owning and maintaining property aint no pic-nic...


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## Modelace (Feb 6, 2017)

wfishtx said:


> A few chores? Ha.....I paid a good portion of my college tuition working a 6600 acre cattle ranch in North TX and I can promise you its more than a "few chores".
> 
> You probably wouldn't know what it means to manage a large piece of land if I drew it out on a your hand and slapped you in the face with it.
> 
> I'm a lot of things, but lazy ain't one of them.


You need to TRY to slap me, junior. Some E.R. personnel need the overtime.
Get it?


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## Timemachine (Nov 25, 2008)

AAAAAAAAND here we are at the bottom of page 9!


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## sea sick (Feb 9, 2006)

Modelace said:


> You need to TRY to slap me, junior. Some E.R. personnel need the overtime.
> Get it?


Haha bust out those ninja skillz Modelace


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