# 45-70 for Whitetail and Pigs



## JDog (May 21, 2004)

My father recently left his home of 20+ years in Alaska for the easy life in S. Florida. So he no longer had a need for his H&R Handi rifle in .45-70 so he gave me his Bear gun.

Since_ I love shooting, and love BIG guns I figured I'd scope the thing and see how it would shoot. I had low expecations b/c it's a cheap, $200, beater rifle, but what the heck. I bought some 300 grain :spineyes: Lever Evolution ammo from Hornady and took her to the range. It took me about 3-4 shots to get her dialed in, then I drilled a 1" group. I was stunned. So I let 5-6 more shots loose on another target (just one shot after another. No barrel cooling time or anything) and this rifle just kept performing. The thing is an absolute ball to shoot._

_So my plan is to shoot a hog with it this season. I figure any more than 100 yards and I just won't even try it since the trajectory drops off quick. I want to also try taking a doe with it since it's accurate enough that I feel I can make a humane shot with it. _

_So, does anyone else out there shoot a .45-70 for S. Texas deer or hogs? What round do you use? Is meat damage terrible or not so bad since the bullet is moving so slowly?? Any info you can provide would be interested. _

_For anyone looking for a CHEAP hunting rifle that would be an AWESOME brush gun, I highly recommend checking out these rifles. They're small (18" barrel I think??) and apparently they're very accurate! And again, they're only $200. I have a really good scope on it, but I think you could put a solid but cheap Nikon on it and have a great, complete package for under $400. No clue if the other calibers would be as accurate as this, but I gotta think there's a good chance._


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## JavelinaRuss (Jul 24, 2007)

You'll do fine, the bullet can do some damage so shoot right behind the shoulders and your good to go

For anything 100-150 yards that thing is deadly


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## zrexpilot (Jun 14, 2007)

I dont have any exp with it, but becarfull, that thing will go through 4 or 5 deer, the penetration that thing has is unbelievable.
For comaprison on a gelatin test a .243 had about 14 inches penetration a 30-06 with a 180 gr had 26" and a 45-70 had 46"


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## trout250 (Aug 24, 2005)

It is not a good long range gun but its a devil of a good brush gun. I have a ruger #1 in 45/70 , have not tried any of the loads you are talking about, but the good thing about it is the size of the bullet, a hit will put just about anything down.


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## THE JAMMER (Aug 1, 2005)

The 45-70 is one of the most mis understood calibers out there. First of all your handi rifle with off the shelf cartridges will pole ax a hog.

The 45-70 is the only caliber which has 3 different sections in the reloading manuals: 1873 springfields, Marline lever actions, and Ruger #1/replica Browning-winchester 1885 high walls/and sharps relicas like the Shiloh sharps.

The 45-70 doesn't have the greatest reputation because all of the ammo manufacturers have to load them down, because there are so many old original 1873 springfields out there, and there is too much liability. The caliber is capable of MUCH more in the other guns. 

You can actually load a 45-70 for a Ruger #1 type rifle with 400 grain bullets up to within about 250-300 fps of a 458 win mag (elephant gun). It is a really potent cartridge in the right gun.

I would not hesitate to go after grizzlies or even some of the big dangerous African game with my gun and loads. I shot a caribou once from 100 yards head on, and the 300 grain Barnes X was buried halfway into his thigh. By the way it still weighed 300 grains. Remember in the old days, 1800's, they killed a lot of buffalo with 45-70's shooting 525 bullets at about 1200 fps muzzle velocities.

I love my four 45-70's

THE JAMMER


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## LIONESS-270 (May 19, 2005)

Great Read and info Jammer, Thanks.....We have His & Hers .45-70s...stops all marriage squabbles...LOL

Lioness shoots a Ruger 1. I have a R.M.E.F. Com. 1885 Browning High Wall.

Both of them like the same Custom Loaded Round.

350gr. Hornady RN, 57grs of IM 4895 in Nickel Brass.

They do all we could ask of them....I quit hunting horns a long time ago. Thats my wifes passion now....But hunting Hogs with open sights on a long gun is a pure sweet Rush.

Good luck and wish you all the best with your Dad's Rifle JDog... Hope to see some pics and reports!


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## bountyhunter (Jul 6, 2005)

Great pics Cheif!

Jammer is dead on in what he said, and anyone that believes that the 45-70 is just a 100 yard gun is badly mistaken. As Jammer said a many American Buffalo fell to this old round when it was still a blackpowder cartridge and many were shot a well past 100 yards. It is true the round does drop, but with practice you can hit your target out to 300 yards and beyond and it will do the job, especially on deer sized animals.


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## huntinguy (Aug 22, 2005)

I'm not in Texas but its a great round and I want one! Would love to have one of those Browning Hi Walls. Great posts here guys


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## Redfishr (Jul 26, 2004)

Great info as always "Jammer".....


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## Brewgod (May 21, 2004)

45-70 is really good hog medicine...


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## THE JAMMER (Aug 1, 2005)

Chief Charlie,

I love your high wall. I have one of Browning's replicas, and love it. Since you have single shots you can load the Barnes X bullets. They don't have loads for them in their new reloading manuals. They only show the flat nose bullets. But get one of their old reloading manuals, and get some loads for the X bullets, and shoot them in your Ruger and high wall. They are fantastic. I also have some loads for the hornady 350's, but those barnes are outstanding. Try 300 Barnes x with 56 grains of imr 4064. That's what I shot that caribou with.

THE JAMMER


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## Moonpie (Jun 20, 2004)

The .45-70 is a wonderful cartridge.
Whats real neat-O is you can get some interesting factory loads for it now days.

Cream puff cowboy loads for general plinking.
Black Powder for the real authentic feel.
Modern hunting loads.

http://www.tenxammo.com/Pricing.html

http://www.ultramaxammunition.com/cowboy.php

http://www.grafs.com/ammo/350

http://east.outdoormarksman.com/index.php?cPath=65_63_553

http://www.midwayusa.com/ebrowse.exe/browse?TabID=3&Categoryid=7546&categorystring=653***690***

http://www.natchezss.com/ammo.cfm?contentID=ammoGroup&ammoGroup=1&searchBy=size&ammoSize=305

http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm?viewfrom=13&catid=322&step=2

Hope this gets you started.


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## davidb (May 10, 2006)

Two of the guys on my lease are using the Marlin Guide gun. Makes hunting fun by forcing you to stalk the game. Direct shoulder blade shots would damage a fair amount of meat, but lung shots very little.

Also keep in mind the 45/70 was used as a 1000 yd target round in the past, and still is.
I would stretch the range to 200 yds once your familiar with it. 

Those handi rifles frequently turn in good accuracy with other calibers too.


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## MAROON (Oct 12, 2005)

this guy makes the best cartrideges for the 45/70. I took a wildebbest in Tanzania with his ammo. Caution - his loads are lethal on both ends

www.garrettcartridges.com


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## metal man (Mar 30, 2006)

Great post guys. I purchased a 45/70 Shilo sharps from one of my customers who got in a bind last year. He had showed me the gun many years back and I told him how much I wanted one but at the time just couldn't justify it. Well he called and I got her, but just couldn't find the time to spend at the range working up a load. You just lit the flame. Thanks for the info.


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## THE JAMMER (Aug 1, 2005)

Metal man,

You will love your Shiloh. Have had one for about 89-10 years. I used to shoot black powder cartridge silhouettes with it. There is a very active club out at Brune Ranch that does this. 500 metere ram silhouettes with open/peep sights. Black powder cartridges shooting muzzle velocities of about 12-1300 fps.

The Shiloh is a fantastic gun.

THE JAMMER


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## metal man (Mar 30, 2006)

Thats funny. I called Herman about getting out on the long range a couple of weeks ago. Can't wait. Thanks !!!


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## JDog (May 21, 2004)

Great stuff Guys. I hadn't checked the post in a couple of days and see lots of good info here. I can't wait to shoot this thing. I figured I'd get a lot of good feedback b/c I've heard this cartridge has an almost cult-like following! I will indeed post reports and pictures after my trip. I think that was requested from charlie? If so, I've loved reading you guys' reports so I'll do my best to return the favor!

Here is a quick pic of the first group I'd shot with this rifle. This is literally maybe shots 6,7, and 8 with this rifle after I'd finally got the scope lined up. After the third shot in this group I was giggling to myself at the range. I had such low expectations for this rifle and cartridge for some reason!


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## Swampus (Sep 1, 2005)

I have a 444 Marlin--Is it on the same scale as the 45 70? I just doin't know-- but my 444 Hits and Kicks like a Rented Mule and straight on! Love the Lever action.??
Just thought I would post here not to take away from the thread but looks like U guy's know UR stuff on Heavy Loads and I want to stay within it's limit's.
Thanks

swampus


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## scwine (Sep 7, 2006)

Interesting caliber. My have to look into it, should work on Nilgai 
I did find this........http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45-70

and vs. the .308, just for a comparison on trajectory.......










EDIT==> I just noticed this was my 1000th post, maybe I really do need a new rifle???


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## Fishnut (May 21, 2004)

I love my cheap Marlin I bought just for the heck of it for Hogs. It rolls them at 50 yards, and drops them at 100.

Mine is set like all my rifles, 1" @ 100 yards, I push it to 250 but found I have about 6" drop when she goes that far. At 200 at the range it drops about a foot with Remington ammo, I've been meaning to make some hand loads but not got around to it.

I would suggest for whitetail to take a neck shot, I've shot two does with it in the neck and it does some damage. No use in ruining all that shoulder meat if you do not have to if you get a 1/2 inch to far to the left or right.

Enjoy your Cowboy gun, like I said I like mine.

FN


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## wellconnected (May 30, 2005)

I love my Marlin 45-70 guide gun. Super light and has almost no kick. Does anyone know what the best ammo is for a marlin lever?


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## ZenDaddy (May 22, 2004)

wellconnected said:


> I love my Marlin 45-70 guide gun. Super light and has almost no kick. Does anyone know what the best ammo is for a marlin lever?


That's the ticket. Factory ammo has barely any kick to it. Last months Field & Stream had a great article on Marlin's 45/70 Guide Gun. As factory ammo is not considered a 'hot' load the writer was stating the damage to the animal is not nearly as big as you would expect. Also, with special ammo the writer was making some pretty grand claims about the accuracy of the rifle. A great read.

Oh yeah - one of my favorite websites - http://marlinowners.com/. An entire section for the 45.70. (Not to mention another section for 'big bores.')


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## Vee3 (Mar 15, 2005)

I have a Marlin 1895 in .450 Marlin; basically a 45/70 in a belted case. I love the gun, though I load my own because the factory ammo is not fun to shoot more than twice. Accuaracy is almost scary for an 18" barrel. With my mid-range reloads, it's perfect for hogs. I throw a 405g lead cast flat nose bullet behind 27 grains of 2400 and it will bust through a couple hundred pound hog like a hole punch. From my few hogs, the meat is damaged just a couple inches off the bullet track. I've never recovered the bullet; there's always an exit wound.

I'd love to load up some of those leverlution bullets to see the distance improvement. For now I limit myself to 100 yard, but I'm sure I'd have no problem stretching that out with a scope. (right now I use an Eotech clone)


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## Dani California (Jul 20, 2006)

Too big for Texas deer. I've shot one many times but not down here.

Biggie


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## JDog (May 21, 2004)

"Too big". pffttt. There is no such thing. To me it's about shooting the rifles that you enjoy shooting, and most importantly doing it in a humane fashion. To me, this mean a quick kill and minimizing meat loss. From the previous posts, it sounds like this rifle will do just that!

To make sure this rifle met my definition of humane, I made sure I coudl shoot it. (see previous pic), and I asked questions about meat loss. Both of these make me believe it'll be fine for a S. Texas deer this year. But first, I plan on taking a hog. Just to make sure my ability to shoot this rifle at the range carries over to the deer blind. 

My other rifle is a .300 WM and that's too big for deer too, but who cares. I like really big rifles! But next on my list is a .22-250 so I'll cover the other end of the spectrum with that one!

(PS - These comments are just my opinion! If yours is different more power to ya!)


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## stangfan93 (Aug 4, 2007)

I want to get a Marlin in 45/70 but I don't really have the need for one right now. I have the 1894 in .44mag and the thing is so fun!

Did anyone know that the H&R Handi rifle comes in 500 S&W? I want one of those also.

Zendaddy is right about the article in F&S. It is really good and also mentions about a ammo maker called Garrett Cartridges. They are suppose to be one of the best (according to the article not from my personal knowledge.) WWW.garrettcartridges.com


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## HornSuperFan (May 31, 2005)

There is a lot of good ammo out there. I am partial to Garrett and Buffalo Bore. That said, if you do some searching around, you can still find some of the PMC (out of business now) +P+ 45-70 ammo. It is loaded with the excellent Hornady 350 gr. flat point. I squirrelled away a couple of boxes when I heard the company went under. I shoot them in a guide gun, the ported barrel model. My only complaint is it sure does a number on your ear if you forget your hearing protection. I'm thinking of selling it and getting the non ported version.



wellconnected said:


> I love my Marlin 45-70 guide gun. Super light and has almost no kick. Does anyone know what the best ammo is for a marlin lever?


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## ZenDaddy (May 22, 2004)

*Crazy Talk*



stangfan93 said:


> I want to get a Marlin in 45/70 but I don't really have the need for one right now.


Hey, can we get a moderator to remove this post? Obviously it's blasphemy. As if 'need' had anything to do with the purchase of a desired rifle!

Trust me ... you need a big bore rifle. In fact, you don't know it yet but you may need more than one. I have a .44 Puma, a 30/30 Marlin, and a 45.70. I need a .35 and a 450.


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## THE JAMMER (Aug 1, 2005)

There are 3 categories of guns:

The guns I *SHOOT*.
The guns I must *HAVE*.
The guns I *NEED*.

Must and Have are almost the same, it's just two different degrees of urgency.

THE "I HAVE ALL THREE CATEGORIES" JAMMER


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## stangfan93 (Aug 4, 2007)

I take offense to that! haha j/k. :biggrin: isn't want and need close to the same thing? I want a 45/70 Marlin. Ofcouse I do need a 30/30 in a bad way. So maybe not. Ok OK ok I need a 45/70.


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## JDog (May 21, 2004)

I figured when my dad offered me the .45-70 that I NEEDED it just in case I was attacked by Bears or perhaps in elephant in my suburban Houston home. I feel safer already!


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## THE JAMMER (Aug 1, 2005)

Man that sounds like a d_ _ _ good reason to me. That's much better than some of the ones I've used with my wife.

What is it they say,"My biggest fear is that after I die, my wife will sell my guns for what she THOUGHT I paid for them.

THE JAMMER


JDog said:


> I figured when my dad offered me the .45-70 that I NEEDED it just in case I was attacked by Bears or perhaps in elephant in my suburban Houston home. I feel safer already!


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