# Pintail and Black Duck limits to change ...



## Spec-Rig.006 (Nov 2, 2007)

https://deltawaterfowl.org/breaking...o-1-daily-black-ducks-to-increase-to-2-daily/


----------



## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

Man, I remember when the limit on pintails was 10. I understand the need to limit the take, just hate the fact that their populations have been so unstable the last 30 years. Beautiful birds


----------



## Jaker_cc (Apr 11, 2013)

Wish they would raise the redhead limit at least


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Csafisher (Nov 16, 2010)

Jaker_cc said:


> Wish they would raise the redhead limit at least
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If the Darwin Award could go to a duck it would go to a redhead. Lol.


----------



## BuddyB16 (Jul 22, 2016)

Well this is a bummer.

Surely that doesn't mean the Mottle Duck limit is raised to two as well. Every WMA biologist and private land manager I've talked to says they are struggling, from resident mallards breeding with them more than anything else.


----------



## Spec-Rig.006 (Nov 2, 2007)

RB II said:


> Man, I remember when the limit on pintails was 10 ...


Me too! It's a bummer for sure ...



Jaker_cc said:


> Wish they would raise the redhead ...


SERIOUSLY.



BuddyB16 said:


> Well this is a bummer.
> 
> Surely that doesn't mean the Mottle Duck limit is raised to two as well. Every WMA biologist and private land manager I've talked to says they are struggling, from resident mallards breeding with them more than anything else.


Surely. I can't imagine that being the case at all. I bet a bunch get whacked with that misunderstanding though ... Got into a relatively heated debate last night online and the problem there was that people actually think Mott's/Black Ducks are the same species in some cases. Most other cases seem to be poor ID ...


----------



## Fishin' Soldier (Dec 25, 2007)

Spec-Rig.006 said:


> Surely. I can't imagine that being the case at all. I bet a bunch get whacked with that misunderstanding though ... Got into a relatively heated debate last night online and the problem there was that people actually think Mott's/Black Ducks are the same species in some cases. Most other cases seem to be poor ID ...


The two names are so often used interchangeably its crazy.


----------



## Logan (Aug 7, 2009)

Until pintails stop nesting in tall grass prairie and/or tall grass prairie inst plowed under (not complaining...just a simple truth) the pintails numbers will never stabilize. That type of habitat doenst just "come back" either....so don't ever complain about the price of your federal stamp and always buy 2.

Blacks and Motts....one migrates and the other doesn't. pretty simple. Anyone that doesn't care enough to know the difference doesn't care about a duck...just the hero shots at the end of the day.

Little birdy says the red head limit might change sooner rather than later....but with all things, time will tell.


----------



## saltaholic (Feb 19, 2005)

Dang! Seems like it was a good year for pinnies down here


----------



## 3CK (Oct 5, 2010)

Spec-Rig.006 said:


> Me too! It's a bummer for sure ...
> 
> SERIOUSLY.
> 
> Surely. I can't imagine that being the case at all. I bet a bunch get whacked with that misunderstanding though ... Got into a relatively heated debate last night online and the problem there was that people actually think Mott's/Black Ducks are the same species in some cases. Most other cases seem to be poor ID ...


You mean that guy didn't shoot 2 BANDED Black ducks in Wallisville this year?? hahahaha.


----------



## Rack Ranch (May 25, 2004)

They get a pass with me... YUCK!!! Don't shoot blue bills either...



Jaker_cc said:


> Wish they would raise the redhead limit at least
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## saltaholic (Feb 19, 2005)

Did a complete taste test this year to prove a point and made poppers out of redheads, teal, spoonies, gadwall and a widgeon. All freshwater birds shot about 100 miles inland if that has any effect. But the only duck anyone could distinguish correctly was the teal...... recipe does include soaking in saltwater for 48-72 hours but still the divers came out just as good.


----------



## LA Wader (Oct 22, 2013)

Logan said:


> Blacks and Motts....one migrates and the other doesn't. pretty simple. Anyone that doesn't care enough to know the difference doesn't care about a duck...just the hero shots at the end of the day.


No doubt, funny how some folks don't realize the difference between the 2. I grew up calling them black mallards or summer mallards, but I knew the true identity as a mottled duck. It wasn't too terribly long ago we could kill 3 mottled ducks/day here in LA. I believe it was after one of the major storms that the limit was reduced to 1/day (smart move). The mottled duck is probably my favorite species of duck due to how smart they are compared to the rest of the pack!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## AvianQuest (Feb 7, 2006)

During the 1944 season you could shoot 15 pintails (drakes or hens) a day.

But we had the habitat to support those harvest numbers back then. Today we have a two fold problem. 

Our late season wintering habitat is poor, particularly in rice fields. Used to be that combines would leave lots of grain in the fields, but the modern combines suck up just about every grain. Ducks need to be fat and in prime condition when they start their spring migration to the nesting grounds. Historically pintails were early nesters, but now they spend too much time looking for food after the season is over and they lose out on the best nesting sites. 

The second issue is that pintails like to nest in fields and before the ducklings can hatch and move to the safety of ponds, Farmer Brown either mows or disks the field destroying the eggs or the hatchlings. Pintails seldom try to renest, and even if they did, they already missed on the best time for their first nesting attempt. 

The only glimmer of hope is winter wheat which is planted in the fall and isn't harvested until after the ducklings hatch and move to the ponds. Meanwhile it provides adequate nesting cover at the time the ducks need it most.


----------



## 2Ws (Jun 28, 2016)

35+ years ago TPW biologist Stutzenbaker said the ducks will never rebound IF we don't start seeing more rice fields. He was 'the guy' on the plight of the Mottled duck. BTW I don't duck hunt anymore BUT in all my years of chasing them I can count on one hand the diving ducks I/we killed, today you see limits of them AND smiling hunters. Maybe I was lucky enough to be able to to hunt in places and at a time where they were way down on the list of targets for the table. BTW I don't eat **** either as I've never had to.


----------



## I'llbecoastin (Apr 18, 2016)

If my memory serves me correctly weren't we only allowed one Pintail in the late 90's and early 2000's? They are my favorite birds to watch work the decoys. It's disappointing news to hear their numbers are getting lower. The bay hunters will be hurt the most by this with Sprig's making up so much of their bags.


----------



## BuddyB16 (Jul 22, 2016)

I think the pintail getting shot south of the border hurts also.. I know legally killed birds do not hurt the population but I know people who have flown into Brownsville, crossed the border and shot 15 ducks a piece for four days, almost all pintail. That's not normal or within reason killed birds. Maybe that wall will be high.....

As far as taste, the only way to taste individual ducks is to dry age, otherwise I know a good recipe involving bricks, an oven and a trash can, I use for coots and skinned ducks.

I am all for raising the stamp price. Make it $100, much better option for weeding out poofacers and providing habitat for ducks. There is legitimate movements over in the 'Sip and Arkansas pushing for 30 day 3 duck seasons, because they have no ducks('Sip) and no space to hunt(Ark, LA, TX, TN). Which I get but the better option would be to keep growing the sport and creating more access. For one tidal water should be tidal water should be tidal water, same goes for rivers and LCRAs tree huggin selves.


----------



## I'llbecoastin (Apr 18, 2016)

I think raising the price of the stamp is a great idea, to improve and add habitat. But I don't know how much it would deter the look at me generation. Judging by the lifted $60,000 trucks they have plenty of money to pay for a $100 stamp. I hunt around these yahoos all the time and for the life of me I don't understand the things they do. Why would you want to duck hunt with 6 other people? There's no way that anyone knows what each is hitting with that many guns. Why would you spread out 50yds apart and pass shoot? Decoying birds is half the fun of it. Why would you wear Camo highlighted by fluorescent colors? Ducks see color. And why in the world when you finally found and killed some birds would you post it on the Internet for everyone to see. And finally why would you get on the Internet and name lakes or areas in reports or questions. I had no one to teach me how to duck hunt. Through trail and error over a decade I became a successful public land duck hunter and I hate when I see people try to take the easy road and leech off someone else's hard work. Oh by the way that was before Internet scouting and Google maps.


----------



## BuddyB16 (Jul 22, 2016)

Ya it is kind of funny how many $60k trucks you see at a public marsh. A shell limit and shot size limit would fix a lot of that pass shooting ****. Or at least get them out of the marsh sooner.

Let's get that money going towards nesting habitat in the north and moist soil down here in the south and for the love of all things right please quit heating ponds in the middle states, especially after duck season closes.


----------



## teeroy (Oct 1, 2009)

Logan said:


> Blacks and Motts....one migrates and the other doesn't. pretty simple. Anyone that doesn't care enough to know the difference doesn't care about a duck...just the hero shots at the end of the day.


THIS, SO much this.


----------



## TatterTot (Jan 6, 2006)

saltaholic said:


> Did a complete taste test this year to prove a point and made poppers out of redheads, teal, spoonies, gadwall and a widgeon. All freshwater birds shot about 100 miles inland if that has any effect. But the only duck anyone could distinguish correctly was the teal...... recipe does include soaking in saltwater for 48-72 hours but still the divers came out just as good.


Agree. 
When we have blasts and cast in POC we eat the he77 oughtta the Redheads. Soak over night in Cab and brown sugar. Kids love them. 
As far a limits did y'all know in California you can kill 10 Specks? Crazy.


----------



## tealnexttime1 (Aug 23, 2004)

i think we thank basically commercial hunting for this. to many pintail pics on to many guide websites around here. they are gonna have us down to 3 birds before long. **** shame.


----------



## Fish4Life (Jul 8, 2005)

At least we still get to shoot pintails. A few years ago we couldn't shoot them and then we couldn't shoot them in the first split. The people that will get hurt the most will be rice fields that have 10 thousand pintails on them and nothing else. Gonna be a short hunt.


----------



## Fish4Life (Jul 8, 2005)

And to be honest...all these glory shots of ducks and geese stacked high with 8 guys showing their serious face covered in face paint are getting old. I wish they would drop the limit to 2 or 3 ducks to weed out these punks that only hunt to take pics for social media. Killing is fun but the experience is what it's all about. Being out in the field or marsh with your family friends or dog. Hell if the limit dropped to 1 duck total per day I would still go. I don't depend on the ducks I kill to eat. I just like to go


----------



## AvianQuest (Feb 7, 2006)

TatterTot said:


> As far a limits did y'all know in California you can kill 10 Specks? Crazy.


We could do that here in Texas if we had twice the number of specks and half the number of hunters. Limits are established in each flyway as a function of the number of birds that can be taken each season without hurting the nesting population and the number of hunters.

For example, Wood Ducks...

Atlantic Flyway.........60 day season, 3 wood duck limit
Mississippi Flyway.....60 day season, 3 wood duck limit
Central Flyway..........74 day season, 3 wood duck limit
High Plains Unit........97 day season, 3 wood duck limit
Pacific Flyway.........*107* day season, *7* wood duck limit


----------



## oOslikOo (Jul 13, 2010)

TatterTot said:


> Agree.
> When we have blasts and cast in POC we eat the he77 oughtta the Redheads. Soak over night in Cab and brown sugar. Kids love them.
> As far a limits did y'all know in California you can kill 10 Specks? Crazy.


Totally different population. 7 ducks a day too


----------



## TatterTot (Jan 6, 2006)

AvianQuest said:


> We could do that here in Texas if we had twice the number of specks and half the number of hunters. Limits are established in each flyway as a function of the number of birds that can be taken each season without hurting the nesting population and the number of hunters.
> 
> For example, Wood Ducks...
> 
> ...


Then What's the explanation for Red Heads only being 2? I guess their overall numbers are low.


----------



## TatterTot (Jan 6, 2006)

And I'm taking Red head limits here in Texas. But I guess I understand what y'all are saying. Overall numbers are lower in general. Numbers of Specks in the Pacific Flyway are great hence 10 bird limits.


----------



## Jamie (Aug 2, 2011)

Fortunately I grew up during the pintail glory years and got to experience the 10 bird pintail limit

Still my epitome of a truly trophy duck hunt is 10 bull springs

I wish I could find some of those old photos when I did it


----------



## I'llbecoastin (Apr 18, 2016)

Fish4Life said:


> And to be honest...all these glory shots of ducks and geese stacked high with 8 guys showing their serious face covered in face paint are getting old. I wish they would drop the limit to 2 or 3 ducks to weed out these punks that only hunt to take pics for social media. Killing is fun but the experience is what it's all about. Being out in the field or marsh with your family friends or dog. Hell if the limit dropped to 1 duck total per day I would still go. I don't depend on the ducks I kill to eat. I just like to go


^^^^ this


----------



## Jamie (Aug 2, 2011)

Not me.... I want to kill as many as the law will let me

Whether it's whitewings









Snow geese









Or parakeets


----------



## Capt. Shinski (Oct 2, 2016)

Why do some of you guys bash others for posting pics of their successful hunts? Whats wrong with working hard, shooting ducks, and being proud of accomplishing your limit.

The idea that just because you post stacks of birds means you don't appreciate this resource is ridiculous.. Geeeeeez..

Maybe some jealousy going on.


----------



## Spec-Rig.006 (Nov 2, 2007)

3CK said:


> You mean that guy didn't shoot 2 BANDED Black ducks in Wallisville this year?? hahahaha.


LOL! You saw the huh? He really didn't!


----------



## 3CK (Oct 5, 2010)

Spec-Rig.006 said:


> LOL! You saw the huh? He really didn't!


Haha. Yeah, I was the guy (James) posting all the memes that he didn't seem to get were directed at him.

Good times.


----------



## Spec-Rig.006 (Nov 2, 2007)

Logan said:


> Until pintails stop nesting in tall grass prairie and/or tall grass prairie ins't plowed under (not complaining...just a simple truth) the pintails numbers will never stabilize.


Yes sir! It doesn't help that farmers up north plow those prairie potholes right up to the edges.



BuddyB16 said:


> I think the pintail getting shot south of the border hurts also.


Eh. Maybe. Hunters only account for about 1% of the morality rate, I'm not sure pressure south of the border has that much of an impact.


----------



## Csafisher (Nov 16, 2010)

Spec-Rig.006 said:


> Yes sir! It doesn't help that farmers up north plow those prairie potholes right up to the edges.
> 
> Eh. Maybe. Hunters only account for about 1% of the morality rate, I'm not sure pressure south of the border has that much of an impact.


Well the past few years I don't think there has been nearly as much pressure down there as say the 80s and 90s. Places used to buy off game wardens and shoot pinners and reds all day. Back in the good ol days.


----------



## I'llbecoastin (Apr 18, 2016)

Capt. Shinski said:


> Why do some of you guys bash others for posting pics of their successful hunts? Whats wrong with working hard, shooting ducks, and being proud of accomplishing your limit.
> 
> The idea that just because you post stacks of birds means you don't appreciate this resource is ridiculous.. Geeeeeez..
> 
> Maybe some jealousy going on.


Trust me I have hunted around these types and have witnessed them do the following.

Shoot a pintail during early teal and not even go retrieve it. Shoot a mottled duck during early teal and bury it in a levee. Skillet shoot a spoonie during early teal. Litter on public land so bad with shotgun hulls that the state guys filled up two trash sacks full of hulls. Shoot countless birds and not even attempt to retrieve them. They have no respect for the resource period!


----------



## kweber (Sep 20, 2005)

parakeet shootin' sounds interesting...
where?


----------



## sotexhookset (Jun 4, 2011)

Capt. Shinski said:


> Why do some of you guys bash others for posting pics of their successful hunts? Whats wrong with working hard, shooting ducks, and being proud of accomplishing your limit.
> 
> The idea that just because you post stacks of birds means you don't appreciate this resource is ridiculous.. Geeeeeez..
> 
> Maybe some jealousy going on.


Because its horrible! Who wants to see a bunch of dead birds on the ground. I just don't get it.

Oooo. Here's a badass hunt I was on a couple seasons ago that had a few pintails thrown in. Lol


----------



## Spec-Rig.006 (Nov 2, 2007)

nomaspigtails said:


> ... Who wants to see a bunch of dead birds on the ground. I just don't get it.


My guess! People making MEMORIES ...

Nice goose haul by the way.

Let's not lose focus of the thread being about habitat and bird limits and LESS/not at all about "wankers" flexing their camera muscles.


----------



## sotexhookset (Jun 4, 2011)

Had to. Lol! And you nailed it on the memories. That was a great hunt with Sammy Romano. I'm good with regs if it helps the numbers of anything (except for the dumbass snapoer fiasco) and we definitely don't leave what we didn't take in whether it be blind, field or water.


----------



## Jamie (Aug 2, 2011)

Parakeets were shot in Argentina

Oddly enough and for me anyway, I found them hard to kill....a little body in a bunch of feathers and long tail

I'd rate them behind rock pigeons in Nicaragua and pass shooting barnyard pigeons along the railroad tracks near the causeway in Galveston.....As far as difficulty 

Folks talk about snipe but frankly, I've never found snipe that hard to shoot


----------



## Capt. Shinski (Oct 2, 2016)

I'llbecoastin said:


> Trust me I have hunted around these types and have witnessed them do the following.
> 
> Shoot a pintail during early teal and not even go retrieve it. Shoot a mottled duck during early teal and bury it in a levee. Skillet shoot a spoonie during early teal. Litter on public land so bad with shotgun hulls that the state guys filled up two trash sacks full of hulls. Shoot countless birds and not even attempt to retrieve them. They have no respect for the resource period!


Hard to stack birds when you don't retrieve them...

But in all honesty, there's definitely some guys out there who shouldn't be. Luckily, I feel like the majority of us aren't that bad!


----------



## tealnexttime1 (Aug 23, 2004)

posting pics of " memories" isn't the problem. it's the commercial harvesting of birds rivaling the early 1900's. to many guys trying to make a buck off of bird hunting is what is doing it, not the weekend warriors. mexico ( which we can't control) from south texas all the way around the gulf coast. guides are killing the birds on record pace for a money. unlike fish ( which i think can bounce back rather quickly ) the birds can't rebound from this insane pressure put on them. daily hunting and professional food ponds from outfits using a public resource as their feed stock basically for free, needs to be better regulated. TPW and the feds need to make the guides pay a big fee ( 5000/year or so) to use this resource hopefully knocking the little dudes out and making the big outfits wonder if it's worth it. anybody w/ a boat and pulse hunting everyday of the week, just rippin the birds to pieces. to me, this is what will eventually cause the limits to eventually drop even more. you throw money in the mix and it will get out of control. just like the fishing has. my 2cents. let the beat down begin


----------



## BuddyB16 (Jul 22, 2016)

LEGAL killing of birds has no effect on the population. Its been proven.

That being said, Mexico has never been legal about anything, big outfitters don't do it but solo guides and some operations running multiple trips a day certainly strain things. But if breeding grounds are at capacity then none of the extra killing hurts anything at all.

Every wet spot within 3 hours of Houston be leased for outfit or shared lease, ensures the birds aren't every really going to concentrate anywhere. Because Johnny paid his hard earned by golly if it gets hunted 3 days a week, if my group only kills 10 birds a hunt its wind, weather, DUs and Obama's fault. 

Would be interesting just to outlaw leasing for migratory birds and bring back the days of being able to scout and have a hope and a prayer that somewhere you could gain access. I realize outfitters would still outwork and outkill 90% of the hunters which is the way it should be, and I don't have an issue with that. I think outfitters keep the sport alive and even grow it. I can't imagine how many duck hunters we would lose if we didn't have guides doing what they do. So causing financial burden to them is the wrong route I believe.

I do think shared leases are the worst thing outfitters ever got into doing. For themselves and the sport as a whole.


----------



## justletmein (Feb 11, 2006)

Sure would be nice to make Pintail HEN harvest 0 and keep the 2 drakes. All we shoot are drakes anyway. Then again with the number of Mottled ducks I see hit the ground in early Teal season I guess that's asking too much of the "hunters" to be able to ID a Pintail hen in the air, likely they'll get shot anyway and stomped into the mud...


----------



## Anderson Guide Service (Oct 21, 2016)

I hate to hear guides are part of a low bird population. The biggest problem I see around here is that the birds never get a chance to sit down and relax. EVERYONE seems to have an airboat these days. Either it being hunting or fishing they never stop running. Before too long a lot of our birds leave and head further south towards the lower laguna. I personally don't hunt ducks anymore, but I think it is important to remember guides allow a lot of people that normally would not get to hunt productively a good shot at a good hunt. This in turn is good for the sport keeping people involved and enjoying the sport. If the customer lives in a place where you have to get a lease, going with a guide is sometimes the only cost effective means for them to go. Guides and their customers have the same limits as everyone else and around here hunt the same waters.


----------



## 2Ws (Jun 28, 2016)

2Ws said:


> 35+ years ago TPW biologist Stutzenbaker said the ducks will never rebound IF we don't start seeing more rice fields. He was 'the guy' on the plight of the Mottled duck. BTW I don't duck hunt anymore BUT in all my years of chasing them I can count on one hand the diving ducks I/we killed, today you see limits of them AND smiling hunters. Maybe I was lucky enough to be able to to hunt in places and at a time where they were way down on the list of targets for the table. BTW I don't eat **** either as I've never had to.


Stutz also said you need as much land for the birds to rest as you do for hunting, today you see neither!


----------



## Fish4Life (Jul 8, 2005)

I think some of y'all nailed it with the air boats. Birds won't stay in an area(except for dumb redheads) when an airboat runs the dang marsh every hour of duck season. It's funny when you see some of the hardest hunted public marshes of the coast produce the most birds...and guess what these areas are? Airboat prohibited Wildlife Management Areas! Most of these public WMAs must have hunters exit the marsh by noon as well with no evening hunts. If we would just make the same rules for all the public marsh on the coast imagine how much better the duck hunting would be!


----------



## BuddyB16 (Jul 22, 2016)

Anderson Guide Service said:


> I hate to hear guides are part of a low bird population. The biggest problem I see around here is that the birds never get a chance to sit down and relax. EVERYONE seems to have an airboat these days. Either it being hunting or fishing they never stop running. Before too long a lot of our birds leave and head further south towards the lower laguna. I personally don't hunt ducks anymore, but I think it is important to remember guides allow a lot of people that normally would not get to hunt productively a good shot at a good hunt. This in turn is good for the sport keeping people involved and enjoying the sport. If the customer lives in a place where you have to get a lease, going with a guide is sometimes the only cost effective means for them to go. Guides and their customers have the same limits as everyone else and around here hunt the same waters.


You hit the nail on the head. Guides guiding is the absolute best thing for the sport. 
Guides leasing up every spot, and then flipping it to groups for a shared lease ensures there are no safe havens for short periods, except for refuges and those don't help hunter satisfaction and they have a capacity.

I don't know how or think there is a good way to disallow public access to tidal waters, airboats or whatever. If you put the time in you can usually find where the birds have hidden down there. To me its the prairie that under produces not the coast.


----------



## Run-N-Gun (Jul 5, 2007)

tealnexttime1 said:


> posting pics of " memories" isn't the problem. it's the commercial harvesting of birds rivaling the early 1900's. to many guys trying to make a buck off of bird hunting is what is doing it, not the weekend warriors. mexico ( which we can't control) from south texas all the way around the gulf coast. guides are killing the birds on record pace for a money. unlike fish ( which i think can bounce back rather quickly ) the birds can't rebound from this insane pressure put on them. daily hunting and professional food ponds from outfits using a public resource as their feed stock basically for free, needs to be better regulated. TPW and the feds need to make the guides pay a big fee ( 5000/year or so) to use this resource hopefully knocking the little dudes out and making the big outfits wonder if it's worth it. anybody w/ a boat and pulse hunting everyday of the week, just rippin the birds to pieces. to me, this is what will eventually cause the limits to eventually drop even more. you throw money in the mix and it will get out of control. just like the fishing has. my 2cents. let the beat down begin


Who do you expect to foot the bill and pump up all the prairie roost ponds then? I bet we don't harvest 1% of the birds that feed/roost/rest on our properties during any given season. Water isn't cheap. Guides and outfits do pay pretty big fees every year to lease the property, pump the water and do the work to get them in the right condition to hopefully have mother nature do her part and give us the right weather to migrate the birds south. It's a roll of the dice and sometimes they don't fall our way and we get hot winters like these last two have been. Land leases don't go down & the water bill is still the same no matter how the season goes. A lack of roosting and resting areas for the birds is just one of the factors that is effecting bird numbers. Food and Mother Nature is probably the biggest in my opinion.

The guys that do provide roost ponds and then rest and rotate there ponds/dirt have and will continue to have the best hunting. But pumping up roost and resting ponds all cost money and that's why these guys charge more than others.


----------



## SeaOx 230C (Aug 12, 2005)

I have not duck hunted in at least 8 years. Before that it was almost the only hunting I did. I gave up on the marsh around Trinity bay due to too many people, I gave up on the Refuges due to too many people. Rice production dropped to almost nothing in my area and the birds are just not there any more anyway. Don't get me wrong there are still a few scattered here and there. You used to have hunt able numbers of geese from Barber Hill to North of Dayton when I was in high school. I have not heard of any geese staging in the area in years.

How many new cabins are in the back of Trinity compared the 90's, 80's, 70's?

I used to run with some folks that had a cabin on Jacks Pass. At that time there was three active cabins on Jacks Pass, how many are there know?

How many peopled with airboats and mud motors now that would not have made the "death marches" that we used to?

The marsh itself has changed also, areas that used to be mud flats and hold rafts of ducks and geese are now hard sand with no vegetation. Even some marsh ponds are hard sand bottoms now. There is less and less vegetation in the ponds other than cane and marsh grass on the edges, that the birds can't eat.

The birds that are around are constantly scattered by air boats running all day long, even during the week.

I grew up hunting the Trinity River from Dayton to the bay. It has changed so much. The river bottom used to have tons of mallards and gadwall. The last duck hunting I did was in the bottom on small little lease. No mallards, a few gadwall and a hand full of woodies. On that same lease in the 80's and 90's there would be waves of woodies in the evenings that numbered in the thousands. Huge flocks of mallards and gadwall. 

They are gone now. Yes there are likely still a few areas that hold some birds, but even there it is only a fraction of what it was. With many more hunters competing for them.

I know nothing of the lower coast, but I can say with 100% certainty that there are not near as many birds in the Trinity River bottom to Trinity Bay are as used to be. And the hunter numbers are way way more. And they have tools that allow even the novice weekend Bubba to access almost any area with ease.

And as the bird population overall is supposed to better these days what does that say? It clearly says that as for this area the birds just are not coming here. And those that do don't stay long. Combine that with more and more people pressuring them.


----------



## Anderson Guide Service (Oct 21, 2016)

BuddyB16 said:


> You hit the nail on the head. Guides guiding is the absolute best thing for the sport.
> Guides leasing up every spot, and then flipping it to groups for a shared lease ensures there are no safe havens for short periods, except for refuges and those don't help hunter satisfaction and they have a capacity.
> 
> I don't know how or think there is a good way to disallow public access to tidal waters, airboats or whatever. If you put the time in you can usually find where the birds have hidden down there. To me its the prairie that under produces not the coast.


I don't want to seen anyone banned from the sport but I think everyone needs to know that hunting pressure is having an effect on the bird population. I don't want anything to happen that would cause duck hunting to become deer hunting. Only the people with a lot of money can do it...


----------



## LandLocked (Apr 28, 2005)

Run-N-Gun said:


> Who do you expect to foot the bill and pump up all the prairie roost ponds then? I bet we don't harvest 1% of the birds that feed/roost/rest on our properties during any given season. Water isn't cheap. Guides and outfits do pay pretty big fees every year to lease the property, pump the water and do the work to get them in the right condition to hopefully have mother nature do her part and give us the right weather to migrate the birds south. It's a roll of the dice and sometimes they don't fall our way and we get hot winters like these last two have been. Land leases don't go down & the water bill is still the same no matter how the season goes. A lack of roosting and resting areas for the birds is just one of the factors that is effecting bird numbers. Food and Mother Nature is probably the biggest in my opinion.
> 
> The guys that do provide roost ponds and then rest and rotate there ponds/dirt have and will continue to have the best hunting. But pumping up roost and resting ponds all cost money and that's why these guys charge more than others.


I believe what he was referring to are the guides that run airboats in costal waters. Really those fellas are nothing more than taxi drivers. Then once the deliver their clients to their destination they go "check" on everyone to see if all is ok. We all know they're just rallying birds. Having those guides pay a fee for the blinds they put out there, and never remove, that eventually become navigational hazards would be a smart thing to do. Seriously tpwd needs to do something about that.

I do the same thing you do albeit on a much smaller scale. I am no guide but enjoy duck hunting. Fortunate enough to have some property that i groom for that purpose. Like you i only shoot a small percentage of the birds that from time to time use the slick of water I'm grooming. And I don't over hunt it. Its a once a week deal.

Some seasons are better than others. This year things didn't get right until after that hard freeze. 5 hunters (3 on one hunt and 2 on the next over the past 2 weekends) have killed limits. Mostly mallards and i am less than an hour from town. Its no accident. I work on making the habitat right. Takes work.

Keep posting your pictures of the work you do in the offseason. I enjoy seeing them and understand the work you are doing.


----------



## LandLocked (Apr 28, 2005)

SeaOx 230C said:


> I have not duck hunted in at least 8 years. Before that it was almost the only hunting I did. I gave up on the marsh around Trinity bay due to too many people, I gave up on the Refuges due to too many people. Rice production dropped to almost nothing in my area and the birds are just not there any more anyway. Don't get me wrong there are still a few scattered here and there. You used to have hunt able numbers of geese from Barber Hill to North of Dayton when I was in high school. I have not heard of any geese staging in the area in years.
> 
> How many new cabins are in the back of Trinity compared the 90's, 80's, 70's?
> 
> ...


Understand exactly what your saying. Hunted that area back in the day too. It was phenomenal. The coe ruined some of the best marshes in Texas. Wallisville in particular.


----------



## Mottled Duck (Dec 3, 2016)

I also hunted the Old and Lost/Trinity River area back in the 1970's and 80's

By that time the pressure had already increased to the point the duck hunting was very inconsistent. It was good at times but mostly the duck numbers were very spotty. 

Late in the season the goose hunting could get really good though. We had some tremendous goose hunting for many years. I am guessing that has also pretty much disappeared due to the much lower numbers of geese that winter here now. 

I have not hunted there in many years but what few times i drive by on I-10 it appears the Old and Lost River marsh has much more phragmites. (cane) now. Back in the days I was hunting there it was largely gone and probably because of the huge numbers of nutria that we saw. From my experience nutria have declined substantially in this area. I just don't seem them much anymore which is a good thing. 

There was a considerable amount of rice farming near the Old and Lost River such as the race track, around Barbers Hill school and almost all the way back to the huge discharge canal of what was Houston Lighting and Power. Large concentrations of geese used those rice fields. 

But it is largely all gone now and symptomatic of much of the waterfowl hunting in this area today.


----------

