# Puma in Colorado County



## w_r_ranch (Jan 14, 2005)

I saw a sight today that amazed me. Me & my son were down in the woods today pruning some branches back from all the stands in preparation for the upcoming season and I saw a puma run across a road. I saw it again an hour later in about the same spot... It was pretty big. Needless to say I was shocked.

The biologist said there has not been a confirmed sighting in Colorado County and that he has only heard 'rumors' of them here. Have any of you experienced a sighting personally??? If so, any insights would be appreciated.

I will be hunting that spot tomorrow evening/night... I have made arrangements for a couple of live chickens and a friend has offered his night vision scope/rifle & night vision binoculars. I'm pumped.


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## oOslikOo (Jul 13, 2010)

heard plenty of alleged sightings of cats and tracks etc. from that area and surounding counties. dont know the validity of them.


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## AirbornXpress (Sep 27, 2006)

*Weimar Tx*

Yea my brother had pics. off fm230 of what we think was one but some said wild house cat, but I saw scrapes on some trees about 6' to 7' tall. Tell ya I aint seen a house cat do that before. But I know my dad has alot of deer back around his house right now, last year they were hidden (spooked) (gone) (runnin for tha hills). I say kill em and we will know for sure, rancher's should be happy. I know some people wont but sorry


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## Tommy2000 (Mar 23, 2008)

If you use night vision, be careful of using the IR illuminator. Cats can see infra-red light. Use it only just before you shoot.
BTW, here's a sighting here in Iowa. They are all over the country. Hopefully someday one will be on my wall.

http://www.kcci.com/news/29064063/detail.html


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## Anjinsan (Apr 24, 2011)

Why do you want to shoot an animal that by your own admission is so rare?


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## 123456 (Apr 6, 2005)

Heres a video that a security guard took at the power plant last year


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## Tommy2000 (Mar 23, 2008)

Anjinsan said:


> Why do you want to shoot an animal that by your own admission is so rare?


So it can be mounted and preserved for all to see.


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## Redfishr (Jul 26, 2004)

Anjinsan said:


> Why do you want to shoot an animal that by your own admission is so rare?


They aint rare.......all over the west.
Now in Central Texas, yes, not common.
My FIL saw one on a bacck road in Fayette county about 10 years ago during the middle of the day.


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## Spec-Rig.006 (Nov 2, 2007)

Anjinsan said:


> Why do you want to shoot an animal that by your own admission is so rare?


Rare ... ? Sorry bro. There are confirmed lion sightings in nearly every county in the state of Texas except for those that conatain a major metroplex and except for Tarrant county which has seen several confirmed sightings over the past 3 decades.

While some areas have more than others ... you're talking about an animal that is elusive enough to usually NOT be seen by humans. That doesn't mean we don't have them. Several counties and private ranches in west Texas (including Buffalo Trails Boy Scout Ranch near Balmorhea which traps over 50 cats a year ... 50) have a trapping and relocating program that they use to stock states where those cats are actually not rebounding like they are here.

I've seen two in broad day light in Refugio county in 6 years time.


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## Anjinsan (Apr 24, 2011)

w_r_ranch said:


> I saw a sight today that amazed me. Me & my son were down in the woods today pruning some branches back from all the stands in preparation for the upcoming season and I saw a puma run across a road. I saw it again an hour later in about the same spot... It was pretty big. Needless to say I was shocked.
> 
> The biologist said there has not been a confirmed sighting in Colorado County and that he has only heard 'rumors' of them here. Have any of you experienced a sighting personally??? If so, any insights would be appreciated.
> 
> I will be hunting that spot tomorrow evening/night... I have made arrangements for a couple of live chickens and a friend has offered his night vision scope/rifle & night vision binoculars. I'm pumped.


Killing an animal to feed your family is ok. Killing an animal to get your rocks off is against the rules of decency with nature.


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## Spec-Rig.006 (Nov 2, 2007)

No one asked you ... Obama's waiting for you at the polls. Stay off our board, and I won't taint your Gardening Forum.


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## w_r_ranch (Jan 14, 2005)

Anjinsan said:


> Why do you want to shoot an animal that by your own admission is so rare?


It presents a danger to my family, our guests & our livestock... not to mention our deer/other wildlife. The second reason is because it poses a threat to my neighbors & their livelihoods. The third reason is because I can. :headknock


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## w_r_ranch (Jan 14, 2005)

Anjinsan said:


> Killing an animal to feed your family is ok. Killing an animal to get your rocks off is against the rules of decency with nature.


This coming from a guy who a year claimed to have shot a coyote last year 'up at our lake house' that turned out to be your neighbor's dog. Do yourself a favor & move on...


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## Anjinsan (Apr 24, 2011)

w_r_ranch said:


> This coming from a guy who a year claimed to have shot a coyote last year 'up at our lake house' that turned out to be your neighbor's dog. Do yourself a favor & move on...


You got me confused with someone else.


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## w_r_ranch (Jan 14, 2005)

You're right, I apologize. That was 'Won Hunglo' not you... are you two related (both of you appear to be anal-retentive)?


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## Wade Fisher (May 22, 2006)

Anjinsan said:


> Why do you want to shoot an animal that by your own admission is so rare?


We had a pair of them move onto our lease in Leon county last year, and the deer knew it. Cost me a lot of money to feed the deer so the cats could eat. Never had a shot all year at deer, but I'd have shot both them cats in a heartbeat given the chance.


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## Rack Ranch (May 25, 2004)

!troll!STOP FEEDING THE TROLL..................


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## Little-bit (Oct 19, 2005)

"Poses a Threat" I wonder how many people have been fatally attacked by these vicious cats? Actually it is less than we would think. You are more likely to have a fatal snake bite, bee sting, or be struck by lightning.


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## wal1809 (May 27, 2005)

I saw one myself not far from where your talking about. 15 years ago, crossing hwy 90 between Eagle Lake and Lissie, Texas. There was no mistake, no mis-identification. It crossed in front of my truck at about 50 yards. I was shocked but I know what I saw.


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## devil1824 (Sep 4, 2010)

Kill it! By the way this is a hunting thread in the hunting section. You may want to find a tree hugger site.


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## Spec-Rig.006 (Nov 2, 2007)

Little-bit said:


> "Poses a Threat" I wonder how many people have been fatally attacked by these vicious cats? Actually it is less than we would think. You are more likely to have a fatal snake bite, bee sting, or be struck by lightning.


That "threat"' would not have to be fatal to be very serious ... not to troll your post but that number is actually quite high from California to Wyoming ... fyi ...


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## Logan (Aug 7, 2009)

Anjinsan said:


> Killing an animal to feed your family is ok. Killing an animal to get your rocks off is against the rules of decency with nature.


your parents never bought you a BB gun when you were a kid did they??


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## jhen (Mar 25, 2011)

This is going to be good LOL


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## jimk (May 28, 2004)

I've never seen one in the wild...it's a rare treat. My sister and BIL saw three (3) on our place in north Karnes County on July 4 last year....probably a female and two almost grown youngsters...I'm told that males are solitary. They just happened to be in the right place at the right time to make the sighting. 

Most of us who wander around in the South Texas brush have probably been sniffed a time or two by a mountain lion, unbeknownst to us.

Their range is pretty large, so a sighting is no guarantee that you'll see them in the same place.

Something else I learned is that cats generally start eating a carcass at the front/neck....and coyotes at the rear.


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## Delta Elite (May 28, 2011)

Spec-Rig.006 said:


> That "threat"' would not have to be fatal to be very serious ... not to troll your post but that number is actually quite high from California to Wyoming ... fyi ...


Define quite high. I was only able to locate a little over 100 attacks in the last 121 years in all of North America. Only 23 deaths. Relatively speaking, mountain lion attacks are very rare. Not to say that those 100 attacks weren't significant to those families. I am sure they were.

But to say the numbers are quite high from California to WY is not legit. Unless I am missing some reports. Which could be the case.

In any event, I personally have no desire to shoot a wild cat unless it poses an immediate and direct danger to me or my party. To each his own, but that's my position.


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## Spec-Rig.006 (Nov 2, 2007)

The math I was given is a bit different.

Approximately 6 non-fatal attacks a year and 1 fatal attack a year reported in California alone since 1986 ... reportedly the year mountain lion attacks 'increased dramatically' - attacks defined as 'any physical interaction with a cat and a human', most 'requiring more than 100 stitches' to 'severe lacerations'.

Let's see that's somewhere near 7 x 25 which equals approximately 175 attacks in the last 25 years alone in one state. More than sharks, less than lightning.

The position stating you'd kill a cat to protect the threat it represents to your family is as misguided as your buddies theory about how he'll never lose a deer. The reality of the matter is that sustainable numbers of cats can be hunted. Period. They're in no danger of being "rare".


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## Mrschasintail (Dec 8, 2004)

Husband saw one crossing our road in Brazoria County. Called TPWD to make sure of what it was.


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## Delta Elite (May 28, 2011)

Spec-Rig.006 said:


> The position stating you'd kill a cat to protect the threat it represents to your family is as misguided as your buddies theory about how he'll never lose a deer. The reality of the matter is that sustainable numbers of cats can be hunted. Period. They're in no danger of being "rare".


Not misguided. Just my position on it. You see, I typically don't kill something unless it's gonna be fried, smoked or grilled. I don't know anything about your dietary habits and don't really care to. Bottom line is cats don't seem palatable to me. Maybe you enjoy a nice thick cougar steak and side of deep fried coyote balls. Maybe you just like to watch things die and leave the carrion for vultures. Either way, I don't really care. You are well within your legal limits to kill every one you see with a slingshot until every last cougar is removed from the state of Texas, be it 500 or 50,000 cats.

There has been plenty enough research done and studies I have read by people a heck of a lot more in tune with the mountain lion populations than you that makes me believe they are not quite as plentiful as they once were and are in fact, if not rare, are in danger of becoming rare.

Like I said, kill them all if you want just don't expect me to pat you on the back.


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## Delta Elite (May 28, 2011)

Count these up.

http://tchester.org/sgm/lists/lion_attacks_ca.html

I didn't get 175 in the last 25 years.

Can you forward me your source?


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## Delta Elite (May 28, 2011)

http://www.mountainlion.org/facts_faq.asp#4

And here they tell us that in the last 100 years only 14 fatalities have been documented in N. America.


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## Delta Elite (May 28, 2011)

Mrschasintail said:


> Husband saw one crossing our road in Brazoria County. Called TPWD to make sure of what it was.


Did they tell you it is no big deal and they see at least 3 dozen of them a day? Sometimes in broad daylight down Main Street? Spec-Rig would have us believe they are in fact that common.


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## reelbusy (Feb 7, 2008)

Anjinsan said:


> Killing an animal to feed your family is ok. Killing an animal to get your rocks off is against the rules of decency with nature.


Agreed!! Well put.


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## Spec-Rig.006 (Nov 2, 2007)

Ha! I have no desire to "educate" you. You've already contrived an opinion based on the agenda of a program designed at protecting cats for reasons that clearly have nothing to do with this thread.

Tell you what ... if you can disprove that I personally saw, aided, and documented ~52 cats come of one 1528 acre piece of property in W. Texas to be relocated to other states - S. Dakota, Florida, N. Louisiana to name the states I remember - 3 years in a row between 1992 and 1995. I'll listen to your theory that mountain lions are rare in Texas - AND give you the names and contact information of the ranch manager and 5 biologists involved in their capture - So rare in fact, that people don't post pictures of them ANNUALLY on this board.


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## Delta Elite (May 28, 2011)

Spec-Rig.006 said:


> Ha! I have no desire to "educate" you. You've already contrived an opinion based on the agenda of a program designed at protecting cats for reasons that clearly have nothing to do with this thread.
> 
> Tell you what ... if you can disprove that I personally saw, aided, and documented ~52 cats come of one 1528 acre piece of property in W. Texas to be relocated to other states - S. Dakota, Florida, N. Louisiana to name the states I remember - 3 years in a row between 1992 and 1995. I'll listen to your theory that mountain lions are rare in Texas - AND give you the names and contact information of the ranch manager and 5 biologists involved in their capture - So rare in fact, that people don't post pictures of them ANNUALLY on this board.


No. You will listen to my theories on the rarity of mountain lions in Texas because you are my *****!!!

And you are trying to tell me that because people actually see these creatures and take pictures of them that they are not rare??


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## Spec-Rig.006 (Nov 2, 2007)

Were you even curious as to what the state of Texas thinks while you were whipping your Google internet machine day-dreaming about me being your ***** ... ? Gross man. Gross. Why don't you try the personals ... you could probably find a real nice banjo-boy in Montrose.

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/publications/pwdpubs/media/pwd_br_w7000_0232.pdf


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## spurgersalty (Jun 29, 2010)

Delta Elite said:


> No. You will listen to my theories on the rarity of mountain lions in Texas because you are my *****!!!
> 
> And you are trying to tell me that because people actually see these creatures and take pictures of them that they are not rare??


Really?


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## oOslikOo (Jul 13, 2010)




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## Mojo281 (Sep 7, 2006)

"Texas is the only state in the United States with a viable population of cougars that does not protect, in some way, its cougar population. In Texas, cougars are listed as nuisance wildlife and any person holding a hunting or a trapping permit can kill a cougar regardless of the season, number killed, sex or age of the animal.[88] Killed animals are not required to be reported to Texas Parks and Wildlife Department." (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cougar)

Seems to me they aren't very rare, it's just rare to see them. Big cats are the ninjas of the animal kingdom!!


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## Delta Elite (May 28, 2011)

Spec-Rig.006 said:


> Were you even curious as to what the state of Texas thinks while you were whipping your Google internet machine day-dreaming about me being your ***** ... ? Gross man. Gross. Why don't you try the personals ... you could probably find a real nice banjo-boy in Montrose.
> 
> http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/publications/pwdpubs/media/pwd_br_w7000_0232.pdf


Guess you failed to recognize that it wasn't a sexual reference. Sorry to get your hopes up, though.

In any event, you tpwd article, which I have read before, does nothing to support your claims. If anything it disputes your claims on the number of attacks you mentioned earlier. While the article does say that attacks have become more common in recent years "probably" because populations have increased, it does not make the claim that there is an abundance of mountain lions in Texas. It also goes on to say that a lot of the population estimates are speculation and primarily based on mortality rates.

So, that being said, please show me where in your source that tpwd studies indicates the cat population in Texas you suggest exists.


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## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

Yea ya'll keep it up and tomorrow or the next day you're going to be saying "I didn't think that would ever happen to me".

Seriously.

TH


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## devil1824 (Sep 4, 2010)

Yep, its officially huntin time! It's just gonna get worse from here with the tree huggers.

Go away!!!!!


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## spurgersalty (Jun 29, 2010)

devil1824 said:


> Yep, its officially huntin time! It's just gonna get worse from here with the tree huggers.
> 
> Go away!!!!!


Yep, another legal action questioned by troublemakers.
Leave it alone if the bullet don't strike you! Or get too close, or cross your fence, or.....


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## RogerB (Oct 11, 2005)

Trouthunter said:


> Yea ya'll keep it up and tomorrow or the next day you're going to be saying "I didn't think that would ever happen to me".
> 
> Seriously.
> 
> TH


Um...... Nah! I'll just watch this one unfold on it's own. 
I think the big cats are something to behold. Would I shoot one? Depends on the circumstance. Rare? I doubt it otherwise they'd already be on the endangered list. But what do I know? Apparently there is at least one expert on all things hunting and all things wildlife that knows better than those who've even participated in relocation programs. Seems to enjoy being at odds with everyone about everything. 
Now Coyotes? I'll shoot everyone of them I see. Heck, the **** things have been run over on freeways and city streets in San Antonio. They have a fondness for all small (dogs, cats, kids) living things carry disease including rabies and will decimate fawn harvests in the spring. 
Justification? Buzzards gotta eat too. 
Sorry Martin. Just couldn't bite my tongue again.


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## RogerB (Oct 11, 2005)

Um .. Last sentence should say"newborn fawns" not "fawn harvest". Gotta be careful lest I get accused of being a Bambi killer.


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## Charles Helm (Oct 22, 2004)

Trouthunter said:


> Yea ya'll keep it up and tomorrow or the next day you're going to be saying "I didn't think that would ever happen to me".
> 
> Seriously.
> 
> TH


:biggrin:



> You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Trouthunter again.


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## reelbusy (Feb 7, 2008)

Got to tell you that I agree with your political views 200 % ,but as far as killing a rare cat, I disagree. They are far too sparse in my view to kill. I have hunted in Texas and Mexico for over 50 years and have only witnessed perhaps, 6 pumas. Never have I seen a puma attack any live animal. Not to say that doesn't happen, but I don't think the occasional appearance of a puma requires the death knell of said animal.


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## Fishtexx (Jun 29, 2004)

My son and I saw 2 this past Sunday evening and another one on Monday morning (may have been one of the two we saw Sunday evening) while camping with our scout troop at Enchanted Rock. Awesome sight, and hell yea I would have taken one if we were hunting.


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## RogerB (Oct 11, 2005)

I got him for you Charles


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## 11andy11 (Aug 12, 2004)

Spec-Rig.006 said:


> Ha! I have no desire to "educate" you. You've already contrived an opinion based on the agenda of a program designed at protecting cats for reasons that clearly have nothing to do with this thread.
> 
> Tell you what ... if you can disprove that I personally saw, aided, and documented ~52 cats come of one 1528 acre piece of property in W. Texas to be relocated to other states - S. Dakota, Florida, N. Louisiana to name the states I remember - 3 years in a row between 1992 and 1995. I'll listen to your theory that mountain lions are rare in Texas - AND give you the names and contact information of the ranch manager and 5 biologists involved in their capture - So rare in fact, that people don't post pictures of them ANNUALLY on this board.


I don't have a dog in this fight but I find it hard to believe 52 cats came off of 1500 acres.


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## RogerB (Oct 11, 2005)

Saw one last year out near Pandale. Saw tracks several times. One was spotted in San Antonio a few years ago. I even heard one scream one night when hunting a place near Garden Ridge. That's a memory! 9 guys sitting around a camp fire all telling stories. Puma screamed and 9 guys tried to get through the cabin door at the same time. I still have bruises on my back from those yahoos trying to run over me . 
One was killed a number of years ago on Nole Ryan's Ranch near Dilley. Nolan shot it after it jumped the high fence on to his property ( or so the story was told). Pretty sure it was the same cat I saw on the ranch bordering his property. Would have shot that one but by the time I saw him all I saw was back legs and tail going into thick brush. Since I didn't lose anything over that way I saw no reason to go nosing around. Especially given the fact that it was almost sundown.


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## Anjinsan (Apr 24, 2011)

w_r_ranch said:


> I saw a sight today that amazed me. Me & my son were down in the woods today pruning some branches back from all the stands in preparation for the upcoming season and I saw a puma run across a road. I saw it again an hour later in about the same spot... It was pretty big. Needless to say I was shocked.
> 
> The biologist said there has not been a confirmed sighting in Colorado County and that he has only heard 'rumors' of them here. Have any of you experienced a sighting personally??? If so, any insights would be appreciated.
> 
> I will be hunting that spot tomorrow evening/night... I have made arrangements for a couple of live chickens and a friend has offered his night vision scope/rifle & night vision binoculars. I'm pumped.


It wouldn't be smart to bait with live chickens. The puma may get one and get away and then he or she's going to want more. Not too wise.


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## H2 (Jan 11, 2005)

I saw a wolfsalope once.


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## RogerB (Oct 11, 2005)

H2 said:


> I saw a wolfsalope once.


Talk About RARE! That's a once in a lifetime sighting!  :rotfl:


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## spurgersalty (Jun 29, 2010)

Anjinsan said:


> It wouldn't be smart to bait with live chickens. The puma may get one and get away and then he or she's going to want more. Not too wise.


Are you using a circle or straight shaft hook for these trolls?


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## RogerB (Oct 11, 2005)

spurgersalty said:


> Are you using a circle or straight shaft hook for these trolls?


Treble hook - double barb on each hook.


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## spurgersalty (Jun 29, 2010)

RogerB said:


> Treble hook - double barb on each hook.


Lmao.....I've had 4 encounters with "mountain lions". The first at 12 years of age: on stand on river bottom, dad gets back in boat, leaves. 5:30am, cat screams, CLOSE!!, I ruin a metal chair. 2nd, 4:30 afternoon hunt, leaning head on from window, something catches my eye, CAT! Only this ones 6' +/- long with the same length tail crossing a 75 yard clearing in 2 seconds flat! My reaction, jaw drop, look at buddy, same jaw drop. 3rd and 4th same as 1st, new metal bench required. 21st birthday, Glock model 35 purchased, and soon after, carried IN HAND to stand and back. Attacks may be rare, but I hope I'm that guy with the story for my grandkids if it does.


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## H2 (Jan 11, 2005)

RogerB said:


> Talk About RARE! That's a once in a lifetime sighting!  :rotfl:


Not as rare as the goosetrich that I ran across once.


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## Spec-Rig.006 (Nov 2, 2007)

11andy11 said:


> I don't have a dog in this fight but I find it hard to believe 52 cats came off of 1500 acres.


Not trolling ... not trolling ... not trolling.

The ranch is Buffalo Trails Sout Ranch outside of Balmorhea. The property backs up to several large cattle operations who share the same trappers and also to the McDonald Observatory. I worked there as a high adventure backpacking and primitive camping guide after highschool and got involved with a Federally and State funded program to relocate cats to the Everglades where the Florida panther ... an endangered subspecies of our own mountain lions who are Federally protected by the Lacey Act.

The ranch was selected because it's a Boy Scout Ranch and the last thing it needed was ill-pub regarding a cat encounter with a 12 year old boy and because the ranch was crawling with cats. Not to mention gaining access to private property where ranchers shoot them on sight is difficult and does not represent a productive way to repopulate areas that traditionally held cats that now do not (without giant radio collars).

An average of 52 cats were taken off the property three years in a row (sometimes less, sometimes more). At the time, the ranch was run by Dan Thomas, Gene Howell, and my boss "Sparky" who recently died of cancer. I didn't believe this number either when I went to work there.

We had livestock attacked no less than 6 times in my brief tenure. We tagged and radio collared several, and relocation efforts were expanded to N. Louisiana, Arkansas, Florida, and S. Dakota. Hair samples for DNA testing were taken from each animal to verify the diversity of the gene pool and when animals were found on the highways dead, teeth were removed to verify age.

This is real ... and this was 16 years ago. Cats and bears both have rebounded dramatically since. I've seen released cats run straight into town in Dover, Arkansa and I've personally helped remove two "problem cats" in Sheridan Wyoming ... one that was bayed in a hay barn on Soldier Creek - where two days earlier the farmer fought the cat off in his yard with a shovel and managed to get a load of bird shot into the cat, and one in an 80 year old womans back yard on Absaraka St. near the airport.

These sorts of documentations are very difficult to find on Google if not impossible - and that includes the actual number of cats we have. Females have an average home range of 80 sq mi and males have an average home range of nearly 200 sq mi. Although that number sounds big - 80 sq mi is only 8 x 10 miles and 200 is only 10 x 20 and because territories overlap dramatically with the availability of resources ... if you have an average sized deer lease of say - 1500 acres ... it's not impossible to have a dozen cats using the property at any given time even the hill country where their numbers are not nearly what they should be because of human encroachment.

I personally do not advocate killing cats - they taste like fishy pork loin and they're just amazing animals; but, rare - they are not.


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## RogerB (Oct 11, 2005)

I don't doubt a word of the above. I know the cats can and have gone on killing sprees just for the sake of killing. One was killed back in the middle 60's on a Ranch in Camp Wood, by my Uncle. It was attacking and killing goats and cattle - some were partially eaten, some weren't - there was more than sufficient evidence to validate the attacks were being done by a cat
Ranchers got together with horses and dogs and chased it across 3 adjoining ranches. Trapped it in a cave and my Uncle went in and killed it.
the hide hung on the wall of the Old Timer Cafe in Camp Wood for a long time before a burglary took place and the hide was stolen.

these cats are not rare. the fact that you rarely see them is a testament to the cat. not the scarcity of them.


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## Mojo281 (Sep 7, 2006)

RogerB said:


> these cats are not rare. *the fact that you rarely see them is a testament to the cat. not the scarcity of them*.


Hit the nail on the head!!


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## jimk (May 28, 2004)

One of my neighbors(long deceased) has about 20 acres of old dilapidated farm machinery...now overgrown with grass, trees, etc. It's a perfect place for animals to hole up(especially during wet & cold) and I can always count on hearing coyotes howling from there....but, there are times when no sound comes from there but they're howling elsewhere. I've wondered about it but after my BIL & sister saw three (3) mountain lions crossing, I think the coyotes probably leave or remain silent when a big cat chooses to rest up in there.


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## letsgofishin (Sep 28, 2009)

*I have seen their tracks since I was a kid!*



Mojo281 said:


> Hit the nail on the head!!


I grew up in Sheridan about 2 miles SW of the old Shell plant. Our nearest neighbor was about a mile away. We saw big cat tracks from time to time but never actually saw the cat. Once right after hurricane Carla came through my dog treed in a blown down live oak tree. When I got there something let out a high pitched sound that sounded like a big cat. I didn't waste any time around there! I am not sure but I don't think my single shot 22 would have been much of a match for what ever it was! Then a couple of years ago my mom swears that she saw 2 big cats with long tails cross the road in front of her out near where Camp 2 used to be. Only old timers from Sheridan will know where Camp 2 is!
:texasflag


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## sotexhookset (Jun 4, 2011)

Anjinsan said:


> Why do you want to shoot an animal that by your own admission is so rare?


I agree with anjinsan. Put a bullet in that cat and full body mount her.


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## muddyfuzzy (Jan 2, 2011)

Tommy2000 said:


> So it can be mounted and preserved for all to see.


i find fault with your logic. it will simply gather dust with the rest of your trophies. having predation in the wild serves a very important purpose, that being the culling of weak, old and injured animals. last time i checked this was nature's way of keeping breeding stock quality on the up and up.:texasflag


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## muddyfuzzy (Jan 2, 2011)

Spec-Rig.006 said:


> No one asked you ... Obama's waiting for you at the polls. Stay off our board, and I won't taint your Gardening Forum.


i don't recall anybody asking you either. this is an open forum, people have the right to ask questions and debate logic. if this bothers you then seek entertainment else where.:texasflag


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## Redfishr (Jul 26, 2004)

Puma's in Texas is kinda like bigfoots.......lots of sightings, no, GOOD, pictures.....


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## w_r_ranch (Jan 14, 2005)

muddyfuzzy said:


> i find fault with your logic. it will simply gather dust with the rest of your trophies. having predation in the wild serves a very important purpose, that being the culling of weak, old and injured animals. last time i checked this was nature's way of keeping breeding stock quality on the up and up.


Maybe you want to offer up your children/grandchildren for bait... maybe you also want to pony up some cash for loss of calves/chickens too. Cats are opportunistic hunters, they'll jump whatever they can... even a house cat. Maybe you discount what the damage an 80-150lb cat can cause, I do not.

BTW, my 'trophies' do not gather dust, my wife keeps them dusted like everything else in my house.



muddyfuzzy said:


> i don't recall anybody asking you either. this is an open forum, people have the right to ask questions and debate logic. if this bothers you then seek entertainment else where.


Since this is a hunting forum, I suggest that if you & the other PETA members don't like hunting & find the practice to be unethical, feel free to go back to the TTMB board where you might fit in better... The rest us can carry on just fine without the B.S. that you bring to the discussion.


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## RogerB (Oct 11, 2005)

hmmm.....I think I see Trouthunter on the far horizon.....here's the real bottom line to those who seem to have a problem with legal hunting of the big cats and coyotes and other -non-edible game - TOUGH. It's legal. Don't like it? fine - get yourself a senator or legislator to submit a bill to ban it - until then - this constant yapping is just that yapping.


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## RogerB (Oct 11, 2005)

muddyfuzzy said:


> . if this bothers you then seek entertainment else where.:texasflag


anyone got a junior moderator badge????? :rotfl:


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## spurgersalty (Jun 29, 2010)

One man asked a question, the OP answered. He is within his legal rights. Why was that not the end of that conversation?


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## RogerB (Oct 11, 2005)

spurgersalty said:


> One man asked a question, the OP answered. He is within his legal rights. Why was that not the end of that conversation?


don't you know? Because - just like the subject of not killing a game animal with a single shot and dropping it in it's tracks - we obviously don't know what we should be hunting and why as well - pffffffffffffffffffffft.
 oh - and - one more thing - IBTL.


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## Anjinsan (Apr 24, 2011)

RogerB said:


> hmmm.....I think I see Trouthunter on the far horizon.....here's the real bottom line to those who seem to have a problem with legal hunting of the big cats and coyotes and other -non-edible game - TOUGH. It's legal. Don't like it? fine - get yourself a senator or legislator to submit a bill to ban it - until then - this constant yapping is just that yapping.


Yes, it's perfectly legal. Personally, I don't get my rocks off shooting any animal not meant for the table.


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## jimk (May 28, 2004)

Where is bukkskin....he knows how to find a cougar...or even a jaguar!


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## oOslikOo (Jul 13, 2010)

muddyfuzzy said:


> i find fault with your logic. it will simply gather dust with the rest of your trophies. having predation in the wild serves a very important purpose, that being the culling of weak, old and injured animals. last time i checked this was nature's way of keeping breeding stock quality on the up and up.:texasflag


and over predation can decimate healthy populations.


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## rusty2009 (Mar 5, 2010)

My wife swears she saw one tuesday morning in Santa fe out side of Galveston at 5:30 in the morning. She was on highland dr. doing her schoolbus route when it slowly walked across the road. She was raised on a farm so she know the difference between an feral cat and a cougar. She said she guessed the weight to be around 75-80lbs


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## oOslikOo (Jul 13, 2010)

Anjinsan said:


> Yes, it's perfectly legal. Personally, I don't get my rocks off shooting any animal not meant for the table.


We got that, thats at least the second time you've said that.


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## Texas Jeweler (Nov 6, 2007)

Anjinsan said:


> Yes, it's perfectly legal. Personally, I don't get my rocks off shooting any animal not meant for the table.


Ohhh, puma meat is suppose to be goooodddd.

A little balsamic oil and a hot wok, stir fry some veggies and sweet red wine, yeah, that'll work!


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## muddyfuzzy (Jan 2, 2011)

oOslikOo said:


> and over predation can decimate healthy populations.


mother nature does not "supersize", she only takes what she needs to keep on going.

over predation is caused when you throw mankind into the mix. when predators have to share resources with people that's when number go into the red. when is the last time you have ever heard of a natural predator causing a threshold shift in the balance of an ecosystem?:texasflag


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## oOslikOo (Jul 13, 2010)

http://www.aws.vcn.com/alaska.html


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## w_r_ranch (Jan 14, 2005)

muddyfuzzy said:


> mother nature does not "supersize", she only takes what she needs to keep on going.


Yeah, well I left the stand at 0430 hrs this morning because I couldn't stay awake anymore and left the chicken staked to a piece of re-bar. At 0730 hrs I went back to get the chicken and it was dead. *It was still there intact, the foot was still attached to the bent re-bar. It was a sport** killin', cats kill because they can. IT WAS NOT EATEN.*

I'm going back out in a few hours with another chicken. Eventually I will kill this cat, no 'ifs' about it. It is DEAD.

And why are you still here??? In another week, maybe you'll volunteer to be the "super-sized" bait... you game or are you too 'chicken' (after all, you did say "this was nature's way of keeping breeding stock quality on the up and up)??? Time to step up to the plate and put some skin in the game...


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## wampuscat (Jun 30, 2009)

Put the chicken in a cage with some #5 double coils about 10 inches off the corner.
I have killed as many as 4 (Black Panthers) in Colorado county in a weekend. My place is behind the fair grounds. Off 71


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## devil1824 (Sep 4, 2010)

NICE WEAPON!!!!


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## muddyfuzzy (Jan 2, 2011)

w_r_ranch said:


> And why are you still here??? In another week, maybe you'll volunteer to be the "super-sized" bait... you game or are you too 'chicken' (after all, you did say "this was nature's way of keeping breeding stock quality on the up and up)??? Time to step up to the plate and put some skin in the game...


i do not think i have ever heard anybody; much less a 60+ year old individual say anything more ridiculous or act more foolish in my life. i am beside myself. you sir are free to do whatever you want whenever you want but if you don't want people out there debating your false logic then do not open it up to public critique.

i have contrary to your opinion done my fare share of killing. my ammunition is not picked up at walmart, it comes from a bench in my garage. i have taken game with anything from a .300 win mag to a .45 colt gov't even a crossbow. i hunt public land, i hunt it successfully. i don't stake bait in the ground and set a hobo trap. but i digress, you seem to have it all figured out so i will bow out and leave you to choking your chickens.:texasflag


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## w_r_ranch (Jan 14, 2005)

muddyfuzzy said:


> i do not think i have ever heard anybody; much less a 60+ year old individual say anything more ridiculous or act more foolish in my life. i am beside myself.


If that is your case, you must live a very sheltered life... As far as you being "beside yourself", you should be.



muddyfuzzy said:


> you sir are free to do whatever you want whenever you want but if you don't want people out there debating your false logic then do not open it up to public critique.


Once again this is a hunting forum. If you can't accept that fact, go start you own thread (preferably in the 'jungle' where you can be properly dog-piled). Maybe you can title it "the unethical killing of non-game animals". Good luck...



muddyfuzzy said:


> i have contrary to your opinion done my fare share of killing. my ammunition is not picked up at walmart, it comes from a bench in my garage. i have taken game with anything from a .300 win mag to a .45 colt gov't even a crossbow. i hunt public land, i hunt it successfully. i don't stake bait in the ground and set a hobo trap. but i digress, you seem to have it all figured out so i will bow out and leave you to choking your chickens.


Yada, yada, yada... No one cares, get over it, but then again I digress... Don't come back unless you have your own stake, I wouldn't waste a piece of re-bar on someone that 'packs so much punch in his beak'. ROFLMAO!!!

Time to go & try to kill this sucker. :cheers:


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## RogerB (Oct 11, 2005)

"I hunt public lands" "I reload my own" ooooooooh I'm impressed. NOT. Here's a news flash, most (if not all) of us have hunted public lands. Many of us (yours truly) reload as well so - you see? You're NOT special. Everyone who's responded has had experiences equal to yours and yeah - even better. You jumped on this thread and proceeded to tell everyone their way was the wrong way. YOU don't have to like it BUT hunting predators is legal within the boundaries established by the state. Don't like it? Try and change it. Until then leave it where it is.


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## RogerB (Oct 11, 2005)

And before I forget - GO GET him WR!


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## offshorefanatic (Jan 13, 2011)

So I guess if my house had rats move in, and I dont see them because they are nocturnal they are endangered? Furthermore since I would not eat them I shouldnt kill them?

So I say to you anti-killing what ya dont eat even if it can kill your cattle or infest your house people....... May your homes become rat infested and may you have fun with it!


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## wampuscat (Jun 30, 2009)

RogerB said:


> And before I forget - GO GET him WR!


X2

I have been called out for black panther control several times, most of the time it has been bobcats, that being said, I fond a place on a road by the river where it looked like a deer had been killed, fallowed drag marks to the base of a big pecan where the drag whent up the tree to a big limb about 12 feet up. I doubt a bobcat drug a deer up a tree.
I have heard of a few cougars killed in the Columbus area.


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## RogerB (Oct 11, 2005)

Predators kill for food AND can and DO kill just to kill. Someone can argue that all they want. I've seen with my own eyes the devastation on lifestock from predators that killed for no reason except to kill. Grizzlies are hunted down and killed if they kill a human. Remember the movie "the Ghost and the darkness"? Those two lions are residents of the Chicago museum of Natural History. The story true. The Puma my uncle killed? Took out over 30 goats and cattle. Left most untouched. Justify all you want ( not you wampus) but 
Predator control has it's place. Feral hogs are decimating crops and grazing lands and out of control. Rice Farmers in Texas slaughter these by the hundreds and leave them to rot. Left unchecked they'll drive the "natural" residents of the land they invade out. Predator control has it's place. And I'm supposed to believe 300 pound plus feral hogs shouldn't be shot unless I want to eat them? Bah! Let the buzzards have 'em. Getting rid of them, or a Puma bent on destroying the deer herd on a ranch? I got NO problem declaring war on them.


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## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

offshorefanatic said:


> So I guess if my house had rats move in, and I dont see them because they are nocturnal they are endangered? Furthermore since I would not eat them I shouldnt kill them?
> 
> So I say to you anti-killing what ya dont eat even if it can kill your cattle or infest your house people....... May your homes become rat infested and may you have fun with it!


LOL! I thought of rats while trying to follow that logic too.

WRR was lucky to see what he did. He chooses to do something legal because of what he saw. He mentions it on a hunting forum. Dang, it's not like he chooses to molest children. We all make different choices in the woods; if your choice is legal I don't see a problem. The TP & W may not be perfect, but I think if cougars were on the verge of extinction they would be protected.


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## spurgersalty (Jun 29, 2010)

RogerB said:


> Predators kill for food AND can and DO kill just to kill. Someone can argue that all they want. I've seen with my own eyes the devastation on lifestock from predators that killed for no reason except to kill. Grizzlies are hunted down and killed if they kill a human. Remember the movie "the Ghost and the darkness"? Those two lions are residents of the Chicago museum of Natural History. The story true. The Puma my uncle killed? Took out over 30 goats and cattle. Left most untouched. Justify all you want ( not you wampus) but
> Predator control has it's place. Feral hogs are decimating crops and grazing lands and out of control. Rice Farmers in Texas slaughter these by the hundreds and leave them to rot. Left unchecked they'll drive the "natural" residents of the land they invade out. Predator control has it's place. And I'm supposed to believe 300 pound plus feral hogs shouldn't be shot unless I want to eat them? Bah! Let the buzzards have 'em. Getting rid of them, or a Puma bent on destroying the deer herd on a ranch? I got NO problem declaring war on them.


If this is your idea of staying out of it, I'd sure hate to see you neck deep in it. Good points as usual.
You too offshorefanatic.


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## RogerB (Oct 11, 2005)

spurgersalty said:


> If this is your idea of staying out of it, I'd sure hate to see you neck deep in it. Good points as usual.
> .


:rotfl: point noted :rotfl:


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## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

I hunt deer, dove and quail. I kill hogs, coyotes, feral cats, wild dogs and I'd kill a mountain lion-cougar-puma whatever you want to call it because all of the above predators kill things that I like to hunt.

It was mentioned that "when man is thrown into the mix" well guess what; we're here, we're the apex predator, we are the population control and game managers and without us there would be nothing to keep things in check.

Below is some good information about the mountain lion-cougar-puma whatever you want to call it. The data is old so some things have more than likely changed over time but the gist of the article might enlighten those who have an open mind and are eager to learn.

TH

*MOUNTAIN LION FACT SHEET*​ By T. R. Mader, Research Director​ 
Mountain lions, also known as cougars, panthers, or pumas, are highly efficient predators. These cats have a wide range throughout the Western states, and populations are increasing. An individual cat's range depends on food availability. Thus, a range can vary from 10 to 370 square miles.

Male lions weigh up to 165 pounds and grow to more than eight feet in length. Females weigh about 100 pounds. Female lions generally first reproduce at about two and one half years of age. Generally they have two or three young (kittens). A mountain lion's life spanis estimated at 12 years in the wild, although cats have lived up to 25 years in captivity.

Mountain lions are solitary animals. They tend to live in remote country and are seldom seen by humans. They hunt their prey by stealth and ambush. Their method of killing is usually with a powerful bite at the base of the skull, breaking the neck. _("Living with Wildlife in Mountain Lion Country," Colorado Division of Wildlife, Denver, CO)_ The mountain lion, like the domestic cat with a mouse, will kill for the sake of killing. A lion may kill many more animals in an attack than it can possibly consume. Lions have killed as many as twenty sheep at one time. _(U. S. Department of Agriculture, Wildlife Services [formerly Animal Damage Control], Reno, Nevada)_

A mountain lion requires 8 to 10 pounds of meat per day to survive. Its diet consists of deer, elk, porcupines, small mammals, livestock, and pets. Generally a lion prefers deer. Experts tell us a lion kills one deer every 9 to 14 days. _(Information compiled from U.S. Department of Agriculture, Wildlife Services, San Antonio, Texas, and Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks, Helena, Montana) _And in some areas, it has been found that a lion kills as many as two deer per week, especially in hot weather. Why? First, a lion tends to leave a carcass once it has begun to spoil. Second, scavengers (vultures, crows, ravens, magpies, coyotes, skunks, etc.) find the carcass the lion has killed and hidden. They consume it before the lion returns to feed on the remains. Wildlife Services Specialists find that success in capturing problem lions is much greater within two days of the actual kill than thereafter. _(U. S. Department of Agriculture, Wildlife Services, Reno, Nevada)_

In Montana there has been an increase in lion kills due to the presence of wolves. Biologists have found that wolves will often chase a lion off its kill and consume it. Thus, the lion is forced to make more kills than usual. _(Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks, Helena, Montana)_ We call this "predation compounding." However, there have been few studies, if any, to document the actual increase in predation due to such competition among predators.

The mountain lion population is increasing over most of its current range. This is due to two factors:

1. Food availability.

2. Lack of predator control. This population increase has a short-term benefit, but could create long-term problems.

The short-term benefit is that with more lions around, perhaps more people will have the pleasure of seeing them. The long-term problems are:

1. Decline in wild game populations due to uncontrolled predation.

2. Economic hardship - loss of hunting revenue, increase of livestock and pet losses.

3. Spread of disease by predators.

4. Attacks on humans.

Decline of wild game populations: In Presidio County, Texas, near the Rio Grande River, deer were found everywhere ten years ago. In those ten years, the lion population has increased dramatically. Today, there are areas where no deer can be found that were plentiful just a few years ago. Lion predation is a major factor in the deer decline.

Jeff Davis County, Texas, is prime mountain lion country. One rancher there usually took 80 paid deer hunters on his property every year. With the significant increase in lions, that same rancher today takes no hunters due primarily to lion predation on the deer.

Another problem in this same area of Texas is the decline of the porcupine. Although the porcupine is considered a nuisance animal, its populations have been decimated and, in many areas, have ceased to exist due to the increase of lions. _(Darrell York, Davis Mountain Trans-Pecos Heritage Association, Alpine, Texas)_ Just another example of problems due to lack of predator control.

Economic hardship: Mountain lions can cause severe economic hardship on those whose livelihoods depend on harvest of game animals (hunting) and agriculture (livestock production). Additionally, there's an emotional hardship, particularly for children, as lions kill pets regularly.

Take, for example, the rancher in Jeff Davis County. If those 80 hunters were non-resident hunters, they would generate $16,000 in license fees alone to the state of Texas. (Texas non-resident deer hunting fee figured at $200) However, that's the tip of the iceberg in regards to the benefits. What about the food, gas, lodging, equipment, guide fees, etc.? If all those factors are figured in, the lost economic benefit is $112,000. _(Information collected in interviews with Texas Guides and Outfitters. The average guide fee or hunt for deer is $1,000. Most non-resident hunters travel an average of two days to reach their hunting destination. Thus $200 is conservatively estimated for travel expenses - gas, meals and lodging. $200(license fee) + $1000 (all expense paid hunt fee) + $200 (travel expense) = $1,400. $1,400 x 80 (hunters) = $112,000.)_

A conservative estimate of what a deer is worth (in Texas) as a production commodity (i.e. non-resident hunting) is $1,400. Let's be even more conservative and say a harvestable deer is worth $1,000. That would mean, taking the estimate of one deer per lion every two weeks, one lion could consume up to $26,000 dollars of deer (if those deer were harvested by non-resident hunters) every year!

But lions don't just consume deer. They consume livestock as well. It's estimated by Wildlife Services Specialists that the percentage of domestic animals confirmed killed by predators is often as low as 10% or less. _(Interviews with Wildlife Services Specialists in Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, Washington, New Mexico, Texas, Utah and Nevada)_

Confirming a lion kill is accomplished by examining the carcass and noting areas attacked, bite marks, possible tracks, etc. This is difficult due to three natural processes:

1. Carcass not found (totally consumed). Lions are opportunists, meaning they kill whatever is easiest. Lions are well known to kill the young, both of wild animals and domestic livestock. If a young calf or lamb is killed by a lion, most, if not all, of the animal is eaten. Consequently, no carcass is found.

2. Decay rapidly eliminates evidence concerning death, especially in hot weather. A couple of hot days can eliminate most of the evidence detailing the cause of death. Further, scavengers accelerate the decay process.

3. Terrain - heavy vegetation, such as timber and undergrowth hide the carcass. There are thousands of acres of timber in the West. A carcass can be easily overlooked. And, lions almost always bury their kills.

According to the 1990 figures in the state of Texas, confirmed mountain lion kills of domestic livestock were as follows: 86 calves (estimated value = $40,850); 253 Mohair goats (estimated value = $12,771); 302 Mohair kids (estimated value = $13,690); 445 sheep (estimated value = $31,132); 562 lambs (estimated value = $33,909). _(1991 Figures from U. S. Department of Agriculture, Wildlife Services, San Antonio, Texas)_

The 1992 reports for Nevada list lion depredations as follows: 9 calves (estimated value = $2,600), 1 horse (estimated value = $1,000), 4 colts (estimated value = $2,200), 5 goats (estimated value = $500), 318 sheep (estimated value = $32,896), 400 lambs (estimated value = $26,359). _(U. S. Department of Agriculture, Wildlife Services, Reno, Nevada)_

These figures reflect only the reported problems and confirmed lion kills. To get a reasonable estimate of the real cost of lion predation on domestic livestock, multiply the above figures by 90 (the percentage of animals killed by predators and not found soon enough to confirm the cause of death). Mountain lion predation is a serious economic factor.

Disease curtailed with predator control: Mountain lions carry trinchinella, a parasitic worm. (54% of 899 Montana cougars tested positive for Trichinella. Data from Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks, Helena, Montana.) This parasite can be passed on to other animals and to humans. In humans it causes trichinosis, a disease characterized by headache, chills, fever and soreness of muscles. Humans contract this disease by eating infected meat that has not been cooked sufficiently to kill the larvea. _ (World Book Dictionary, Volume Two; World Book,Inc. 1986, page 2231.12)_

Public safety: An increase in lions often leads to attacks on humans. We have a photo in our photo files of the stomach contents of a lion that killed a small boy. One can see clearly parts of clothing the lion consumed as it fed on the youngster.

Lion attacks on humans increase when:

1. Prey animals are few in number.

2. Lions become accustomed to man. Mountain lions are solitary animals. They generally hunt at night and, for the most part, are not seen by humans. However, recently lions have been sighted in and near Western towns. This indicates an increase in lions and/or a limited prey base forcing the cats to come closer to man in search for food. And this carries the potential for attacks on humans.

This problem has such significance that the state of Colorado held a symposium in 1991 specifically addressing the rise in mountain lion attacks on humans. The Wildlife Society Bulletin featured an article documenting lion attacks on humans by Professor Paul Beier of the Department of Forestry and Resource Management at the University of California at Berkeley. Beier's conclusion stated that mountain lion attacks on humans have "increased markedly" in the last two decades. _(Beier, Paul; "Cougar Attacks on Humans in the United States and Canada"; WILDLIFE SOCIETY BULLETIN, 19:403-412, 1991.)_

Here are a few documented mountain lion attacks on humans:

1. Spring, 1986 - Orange County, California - Laura Small, age 5, was attacked by a mountain lion in the Ronald W. Caspars Wilderness Park. The female lion attacked her head and dragged her off. Laura suffered paralysis of her right side and was confined to a wheelchair for a period of time. She has had 11 operations. Now Laura has a steel plate in her skull. Her right leg is weak, her right arm is partially paralyzed and she is blind in her left eye.

A lawsuit of $100 million and $750,000 in personal damage was filed against Orange County. Small was awarded $2 million dollars. Orange County appealed the ruling.

_2. _August 1986 - Justin Mellon, age 6, was hiking in Ronald W. Caspars Wilderness Park. He was attacked and mauled by a female lion. Mellon suffered bites to the head, leg and stomach. His injuries were not as severe as that of Laura Small. Note: Due to the lawsuit over the Laura Small attack, the Board of Supervisors for Orange County decided not to allow minors into Caspars Wilderness Park at all. _(Information compiled from Ronald W. Caspars Wilderness Park, U. S. Department of Agriculture, Wildlife Services, Sacramento, California and various news reports.)_

_3. _1989 - Evaro, Montana - Jake Gardipe, age 5, was killed by two or three mountain lions (possibly a female with two kittens) while riding his tricycle in his front yard. The boy was dragged from the yard and the body was found nearby several hours later. The boy's home was 100 yards from U.S. Highway 93 just outside of Evaro. _(Associated Press, September 13, 1989)_


_4. _1989 - Apache Junction, Arizona - Joshua Walsh, age 5, was mauled by a mountain lion near Canyon Lake, some 30 miles northeast of Phoenix. Without warning, and near a parking lot and boat dock filled with people, the mountain lion attacked Joshua, bit him on the head and began to shake him with its jaws and drag him away. Tim Walsh, Joshua's father, leaped down a 20-foot embankment, grabbed a rock, threw it and hit the lion on the head, scaring it. The lion dropped the boy. Joshua was air-lifted to Phoenix Children's Hospital where it took 100 stitches to close Joshua's head wounds, including re-attachment of his right ear which was nearly severed in the attack. _(Phoenix Gazette, May 1, 1989, page A-1)_

5. 1991 - Nevada Test Site, north of Las Vegas, Nevada - Mary Saether, was attacked by a 120-pound female mountain lion. She suffered minor cuts and received 21 stitches on her head, right arm, and back. The cougar crept up on Saether and two male companions and attacked before they were aware of its presence. The two men beat the lion with their cameras forcing it to release Saether. A Wildlife Services Specialist arrived the next day. As he was doing a preliminary check, he heard noise in a tree and turned to find the lion charging. The man had only enough time to draw his handgun and shoot the lion at point blank range. The lion was found to be in good health. _(U. S. Department of Agriculture, Wildlife Services, Reno, Nevada and various news reports)_

_6. _1991 - Idaho Springs, Colorado - Scott Dale Lancaster, age 18, was killed by a lion while jogging near his high school. Lancaster was attacked by a 90 - 100 pound female cougar and dragged some 60 feet away. When asked how severely the boy was mauled by the lion, Undersheriff Dave Graham replied, "Bad!" It took authorities two days to find Lancaster's body._ (Clear Creek Courant, January 16, 1991, page 1)_

_7. _1991 - Riverside, California - Searchers found evidence that Travis Zwieg, age 3, of La Quinta, California, was possibly attacked by a mountain lion. Shoe prints thought to be Zwieg's were found a half mile from where the toddler disappeared. The prints stopped at a rocky overhang where mountain lion prints were found. "Where the shoes stopped, there was a slide area and what they believed to be drag marks," said Sgt. Craig Kilday. _(Associated Press, February 26, 1991 - Note: We found no record of the boy being found.)_

_8. _1992 - Gaviota State Park, near Santa Barbara, California - Darron Arroyo, age 9, was attacked by a mountain lion as he walked along a park trail. Darron was hiking with his two brothers when a lion rushed from the bushes and attacked, attempting to drag him off in the brush. Steven Arroyo, Darron's father, was walking about a hundred yards behind the boys. He heard the screams and saw the lion dragging Darron. Steven rushed toward the cat, picked up a rock, threw it and struck the lion between the eyes. The lion dropped the boy and left the area. Darron sustained bites to the face and head and scratches to the chest. _(Information compiled from Santa Barbara News Press, Gaviota State Park and California Department of Fish and Game, Sacramento, California.)_

_9. _1992 - Wenatchee, Washington - Jessica Vanney, age 5, suffered cuts and puncture wounds when a 60-pound mountain lion attacked her as she walked along a path through trees at a 100-site campground in Lake Wenatchee State Park. Her father, Michael Vanney, witnessed the attack. "Jessica was 4 or 5 feet in front of me. She walked between two trees and I saw some movement out of the corner of my eye. Then I saw the cougar run around a tree and jump on her. Its front paws just wrapped right around her head and shoulders." Vanney grabbed his hunting knife and attacked the animal. This is the third known lion attack in the state. _(Associated Press, June 18, 1992 - Note: What if this was a full grown lion weighing 150 pounds? What if Jessica was walking that path by herself?)_

_10. _1992 - Vancouver Island, British Colombia - An 8-year-old Kyuquot Indian boy, Jeremy Williams, was fatally mauled by a mountain lion in the village of Kyuquot. The boy's father and a dozen youngsters witnessed the attack. Jeremy was attacked as he sat on the grass in the elementary school playground. The cougar rushed and attacked the freckled, red-haired youngster as other children ran for help. Kevin Williams, Jeremy's father and a teacher at the school, hurried to the scene and watched helplessly while children screamed in panic. The school's janitor shot and killed the 60-pound lion. Richard Leo, a Kyuquot Indian chief, said angry parents accused the school board of ignoring the danger of wild animals. _(Associated Press, 1992)_

_11. _1994 - Auburn Lake Trails, California (near Sacramento) - a 40-year-old vocational rehabilitation counselor, Barbara Schoener, was attacked and killed by a mountain lion. Schoener was jogging in the popular Auburn Trails area when a cougar attacked her from behind. The force of attack caused Schoener off the trail. Schoener made two strides before falling 30 feet. Schoener then stood up and moved another 25 feet down the slope where the final attack occurred. Wounds on Schoener's forearms and hands showed attempts to defend herself, but the 5-foot-8-inch, 120-pound woman was no match for the lion. The lion dragged Schoener 300 feet downhill and, after feeding on her, buried her with leaves and debris. Schoener received two fatal wounds - a crushed skull and bites to the head and neck. _(Sacramento Bee Final, April 27, 1994, page B1 and B4)_

These are but a few of the documented mountain lion attacks on humans, most of which were small children. All lions involved in these attacks that were located and destroyed, were found to be healthy. Some showed signs of hunger.

One major reason for the significant rise of attacks in recent years is the lack of predator control. Since many people now live in urban or metropolitan areas, they are unfamiliar with predation, its impacts, and the many benefits of predator control. In fact, few even know what those benefits are. Further, there has been a constant barrage of misinformation calling for the return of the "natural" or "living in harmony with nature."

Dr. Lester McCann, Ph.D. has studied predation his entire life. His findings reveal:

1. Predators are the main carriers of deadly diseases of wildlife and to humans. Predators are well known to carry rabies. Raccoons carry a deadly fowl cholera which has devastated ducks in many areas.

2. Predation is non-specific - meaning the predator takes what it finds. Fox, skunk, and raccoon are extremely hard on ducks, pheasants, and other birds due to their nest destruction. Many studies have shown no young reproduced from nests, due to predation.

3. There have been NO significant increases in wildlife populations without some kind of predator control. _(McCann, Lester, Ph.D.; A New Day For Wildlife; (St. Paul: Ramaley Printing Company) 1978.)_

The enormous benefits of predator control are largely ignored these days. To understand those benefits, one must ask, "What are the problems caused by predators?"

1. The most obvious is their meat consumption. From the fox in the chicken house to the wolf in the barnyard, predation costs ranchers and farmers dearly. In the early years, the wolf, lion or bear could put a homesteader out of business in one night. Often all the homesteader had was an old milk cow and/or maybe some sheep or yearling cattle. It was common for a pack of wolves to come through and kill every animal the little farmer had. Many times cows or sheep had their udders torn off and eaten. It is interesting to note that government officials considered mountain lions as destructive as wolves in the early years.

The consumption rate of lions is estimated at eight to ten pounds of meat per day. To illustrate this, consider the lion population in California. Wildlife officials estimate they have 5,000 mountain lions in the state. _(California Department of Fish and Game, Sacramento, California)_ Those lions would consume 50,000 pounds of meat per day to survive. It must be noted that predators hunt 365 days a year. There are no seasons or bag limits.

2. Predators were hard on wildlife, especially before man came. Many are the accounts of early explorers forced to eat their horses due to lack of wild game. Perhaps the most significant factor was water, or the lack of it. Few natural springs are found in the West. The scarcity of water allowed the predator ease in finding prey. Prey had to water, so the predator simply waited near the spring or river.

Man came along and built reservoirs and dug wells and irrigation ditches. Water became more accessible and wildlife flourished, especially when the predator numbers were reduced. The abundance of wildlife today is a direct result of the improvement and management by man, including predator control.

3. Disease was curtailed with predator control. Predators are well- documented as carriers of diseases harmful to bird and game populations. They also carry diseases harmful to man. The best known and most feared is rabies.

In the first part of this century, a rabies epidemic spread from the Pacific Northwest down through the southwestern states of New Mexico and Arizona. The coyote was the main carrier. Incidence of rabies is on the rise with numerous reports coming into the Center for Disease Control in Atlanta, Georgia. Several Western counties have had rabies epidemics. In Wyoming, a man was bitten by a rabid coyote. A few years ago, a child was attacked and bitten by a rabid bobcat in California. The child spent several days in a coma and then died from rabies. Rabies shots were administered, but failed to stop the dreaded disease.

So what's it like to live with abundant predators? Dr. Robert M. Miller, D.V.M. visited the Ol Pejeta ranch in Kenya, Africa, which runs 10,000 head of cattle. There they live with predators - lions, leopards, hyenas, etc. The whole system of ranching is different due to the predation factor.

The cattle are divided up into small groups, from 10 to 30 head, and are assigned to native herders (natives of Masai or Samburu descent) who protect the cattle. These natives literally live with the animals. At night, the animals are moved into a "boma," a corral made of thornbush. In the morning, they are moved out again to graze and water, always under the watchful eyes of a native herder.

The main ranch corrals are 10-foot high, solid wood enclosures. These corrals protect the animals without someone having to sleep with the livestock as the natives do at the "bomas."

Consider the cost of this operation. They require a minimum of 335 herders for the cattle. Think of the number of corrals that would have to be built throughout the ranch. Think of the weight loss having to herd the livestock to a corral each night.

Even with all these precautions, predation on the livestock and wild game occurs. Hunting of predators is an on-going project. Simon Barkus, the ranch manager, states that they lose about 15 head a month to predators.

So how do you ranch with predators? "You just hire hundreds of natives who are willing to stand and watch a few cows each from dawn to dark, and who can handle their charges as if they were 4-H dairy calves," states Dr. Miller. _(The Western Horseman, June 1992)_

Think for a moment how costly meat would be at the grocery store if ranchers and farmers of the U. S. were forced to live with predators as they do in Kenya. It is safe to say that the cost of meat could escalate as much as 1000% without proper predator control.

It must be understood that predation must be addressed for wildlife to be abundant for viewing or hunting. The predator is to wildlife what weeds are to the farmer or gardener. You cannot have abundant wildlife with abundant predators any more than you can have a fruitful garden or crops with abundant weeds.

Copyright, 1995, T. R. Mader.​ Permission granted to quote from or reprint if full credit is given to the source.​ 
_About the Author: T. R. Mader is Research Director of Abundant Wildlife Society of North America, an independent research organization. Mader has conducted research on wildlife and environmental issues for over 15 years._


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## 11andy11 (Aug 12, 2004)

RogerB said:


> Predators kill for food AND can and DO kill just to kill. Someone can argue that all they want. I've seen with my own eyes the devastation on lifestock from predators that killed for no reason except to kill. Grizzlies are hunted down and killed if they kill a human. Remember the movie "the Ghost and the darkness"? Those two lions are residents of the Chicago museum of Natural History. The story true. The Puma my uncle killed? Took out over 30 goats and cattle. Left most untouched. Justify all you want ( not you wampus) but
> Predator control has it's place. Feral hogs are decimating crops and grazing lands and out of control. Rice Farmers in Texas slaughter these by the hundreds and leave them to rot. Left unchecked they'll drive the "natural" residents of the land they invade out. Predator control has it's place. And I'm supposed to believe 300 pound plus feral hogs shouldn't be shot unless I want to eat them? Bah! Let the buzzards have 'em. Getting rid of them, or a Puma bent on destroying the deer herd on a ranch? I got NO problem declaring war on them.


Not saying not to shoot a big cat but comparing feral hogs, a non native invasive species to a native species is a weak comparison. I will say this that I know from talking to the biologists at Black Gap that they shoot every lion on sight as a protective measure against desert bighorn predation.


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## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

> Not saying not to shoot a big cat but comparing feral hogs, a non native invasive species to a native species is a weak comparison.


11andy11 he's not. You would need to read the entire thread to understand what he's talking about.

TH


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## timberrattler (Nov 19, 2008)

When Ya'll trap or shoot a cougar or black panther in Colorado County let me now and I will carry it over my shoulders around the court house.


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## AirbornXpress (Sep 27, 2006)

*What Trouthunter said*

Pop a cap in his arse, Post all pics. before durn and after, I would love to have one so I can stare at him every day and admire him on the wall. Oh there would not be any dust on him


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## spurgersalty (Jun 29, 2010)

It's all akin to the wolf introduction controversy that farmdude has been pitching. 
If not kept "in check" a certain species will thrive thus depleting its, and other species target "meals". 
And at some point this will no doubt cause an encounter with humans that is albeit rare, but very much real to the receptionist of this attack.
There is a balance. 
Should we kill every one of them? No.
Can we? No. 
We just ain't good enough to outsmart their "street Smarts".


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## Spec-Rig.006 (Nov 2, 2007)

I'm actually kind of surprised this hasn't come up before but for those of you who're proponents of shooting cats or aim to when it happens - please keep in mind the sweet spot on a cat is different than that of on a deer or a hog.

SHOT PLACEMENT, on a cat is just below dead center and about 2 ribs back from the center of the shoulder blade, the forward pointing "v" in the shoulder you think of when your look at shot placement charts on a deer. Simple terms, the good double lung/heart on a cat is more like back of lung or liver/gut when you're looking at a deer. Just a hair back though ...

Shooting a cat means more than a quick ethical kill for the sake of the animal, it means someone doesn't get hurt. Treat them with respect on the ground - a cat can move faster than you can get the saftey off. If you do have to "put one down" may I recommend a shotgun with some 3.5" T's followed by double buck ... or just plain buckshot - they're very light skinned and will take it right up without you having to aim much and wet yourself at the same time.


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## aceshooter01 (Jun 27, 2006)

everyone is entitled to their opinions....if you don't want to kill an animal because of whatever reason you decide, thats your business....if you want to kill an animal and its legal, then by all means, do it and post some pics for everyone to see. if i saw a cougar, i would definatly shoot it, mount it, and post some pics.....just my opinion though.


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## RogerB (Oct 11, 2005)

Trouthunter said:


> 11andy11 he's not. You would need to read the entire thread to understand what he's talking about.
> 
> TH


Thank you Sir. I'm outta green or I'd paint you again


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## El Capitan de No Fish (Sep 20, 2007)

Delta Elite said:


> Maybe you enjoy a nice thick cougar steak and side of deep fried coyote balls.


You gotta admit, he's pretty **** funny.


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## big john o (Aug 12, 2005)

Pretty cool story WR. Probably a once in a lifetime sighting... 

BTW, the only thing that would have made this thread better is a follow up post with a pic of a half eaten chicken and a dead cat with a hole in his a&&...


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## activescrape (Jan 8, 2006)

w_r_ranch said:


> Yeah, well I left the stand at 0430 hrs this morning because I couldn't stay awake anymore and left the chicken staked to a piece of re-bar. At 0730 hrs I went back to get the chicken and it was dead. *It was still there intact, the foot was still attached to the bent re-bar. It was a sport** killin', cats kill because they can. IT WAS NOT EATEN.*
> 
> I'm going back out in a few hours with another chicken. Eventually I will kill this cat, no 'ifs' about it. It is DEAD.
> 
> And why are you still here??? In another week, maybe you'll volunteer to be the "super-sized" bait... you game or are you too 'chicken' (after all, you did say "this was nature's way of keeping breeding stock quality on the up and up)??? Time to step up to the plate and put some skin in the game...


W.R., it occurs to me he knew you were there. He probably curled up down wind of you and waited you out. After you left he came in to investigate. I doubt you will get him. He is on to you now.


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## jhen (Mar 25, 2011)

I say Choot!!!!!! the SOB. If some dont like it they can go hug a tree wile eatig a salad!!!


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## RogerB (Oct 11, 2005)

knowing WR - he's probably having chicken fried mountain lion steak, smothered in country gravy and stack of flap jacks.


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## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

Honestly, not one single person on here knows how rare or non-rare (un-rare, or whatever the proper term is) these cats are... 

Im gonna have to side on the side that the whole "elusive" thing is a crock. Yes, they are masters of stealth, but come on folks.... 

Its hard to do any type of math on them to get even an estimate, with biologists only being able to use corpses as a definite... Sightings are pretty much non-admissable.... Because people see bigfoot and lochness and aliens too... and the ever so present BLACK PANTHER.

There are 25,000,000 people in this state.... and only 2500 sightings per year... meaning only 1 person in every 10,000 has seen one (no telling how many people were seeing the same cat and how many people were even seeing a cougar period) and 1 person in 100,000 actually killing one...

I would say they are pretty **** rare. They can be elusive all they want, but just like the other "elusive" creatures mentioned, with a human population as great as we have, there should be more sightings.

And, nobody has mentioned game cams.... if they are so numerous, we would see WAY more game cam photos of these things. I dont think anyone can argue with that.

Cougars make an AWESOME mount (although most I have seen look absolutely horrible), but before someone shoots one, please check out how much a quality mount is going to cost. I think you may think twice before pulling the trigger.... and i would HOPE, for as rare as these things are to see, that you would not just dump it in the ditch.

Spec, you are my buddy, but 156 cats on the same 1500 acre property in 3 years??? Capturing that many elusive creatures in one location and there is no documentation or published studies or anything? And they didnt shut the kids camp down??????



Own story : Sister and her friend were sitting outside our lease camp between Center and San Augustine about 6-7 years ago on a pipeline... Watched 2 cougars walk about 30 yards down the pipeline before turning back into the thicket. If she didnt have a second set of eyes with her, I would have never believed her. Same pair were seen by 2 other folks in the area in the next few days.


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## Spec-Rig.006 (Nov 2, 2007)

I think the total number was 124 ... there's plenty of documentation, tons of it in fact. You're just not going to find it on Google - that was the point. The camp was not shut down and is still in operation today. With zero attacks on humans having happened on the property - and with state and federal funding - and with that many cats to supply relocation programs. Why would they shut it down?

Don't believe it if you don't want to brother. But this is kind of like the theory that "well since I haven't seen a 170" buck in Texas, they don't exist" ...

And Grandpa Cracker ... !!! Really ... ??? I think the ethincs of "killers and hunters" in this country has far SURPASSED what it's ever been.


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## jimk (May 28, 2004)

With this drought...you can check any waterholes you have for tracks. Look for a cat track about the size of your palm...its size will give it away.


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## Spec-Rig.006 (Nov 2, 2007)

justinsfa said:


> ... Own story : Sister and her friend were sitting outside our lease camp between Center and San Augustine about 6-7 years ago on a pipeline... Watched 2 cougars walk about 30 yards down the pipeline before turning back into the thicket. If she didnt have a second set of eyes with her, I would have never believed her. Same pair were seen by 2 other folks in the area in the next few days ...


Sooooooooo, by your own admission, lions in Texas are so rare that only 0.00001% (1 : 100,000) of the states population has seen one and you know TWO of them ... ! AND in East Texas ... !!!

Dude ... start playing the lottery. TODAY.

You're my buddy, but, just like everyone else on here - what you think, does not constitue fact.


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## devil1824 (Sep 4, 2010)

Ok, I must admit. I'm a softy also. I let probably 7 bobcats walk over the last couple years.










Because I already have one mounted.:biggrin:


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## RogerB (Oct 11, 2005)

Spec-Rig.006 said:


> Don't believe it if you don't want to brother. But this is kind of like the theory that "well since I haven't seen a 170" buck in Texas, they don't exist" ...
> 
> .


agreed - 


justinsfa said:


> Im gonna have to side on the side that the whole "elusive" thing is a crock. Yes, they are masters of stealth, but come on folks...


and the "whole elusive thing is just a crock" - okay - whatever you say mr outdoorsman of the world - the fact that I've seen several dozen big cat tracks over the past 3 years in West Texas and only ONE cat in that time on that property must mean I'm blind? - yeah, whatever.


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## jimk (May 28, 2004)

Some of us have different perspectives on animals....growing up on a farm/ranch, every and I mean every animal had to earn it's keep....if it didn't, it wouldn't be around for long. In most cases, any predator would be shot on sight.

I don't take the killing of any creature lightly, but I'm the judge and jury when I'm looking through my scope. If, IMO, an animal needs to be taken out...I won't hesitate to pull the trigger.


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## oOslikOo (Jul 13, 2010)

justinsfa said:


> Honestly, not one single person on here knows how rare or non-rare (un-rare, or whatever the proper term is) these cats are...
> 
> Im gonna have to side on the side that the whole "elusive" thing is a crock. Yes, they are masters of stealth, but come on folks....
> 
> ...


25,000,000 people in the state of Texas of which more than half live in a metropolitan area in which they may not leave very often. and if they do they are probably traveling on an interstate corridor. sounds like a good place for a cat!!!!!! further more the more favorable cat environments happen to be the most sparsely populated portions of the state, so its not surprising to me that sightings arent all that common. cats of any kind are very cautious and careful and elusive. ive hunted my whole life albeit not as long as some of the guys on here and only seen a bobcat twice in the stand, one of which was shot and is on the wall. Let the lecturing begin! any cat has the potential to be a dangerous cat and if the OP feels the need to eliminate the threat and does by legal means let him. maybe he has livestock on his place and if he doesnt someone near probably does. cat may have moved into the area looking for food, and livestock will be an easier kill than a deer. to all that object and have used the not kill unless eat it think about this. there are people that do that very thing, provide for their families by raising livestock and the last thing they need is a cat killing off their very livelihood especially in these hard times for those that make a living somewhere other than an office. if you were a cattle, goat or sheep raiser youd be singing a different tune. also i guess non of you have ever shot a ****, coyote or any other varmit then. carry on i have my popcorn in hand.


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## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

Spec-Rig.006 said:


> Sooooooooo, by your own admission, lions in Texas are so rare that only 0.00001% (1 : 100,000) of the states population has seen one and you know TWO of them ... ! AND in East Texas ... !!!
> 
> Dude ... start playing the lottery. TODAY.
> 
> You're my buddy, but, just like everyone else on here - what you think, does not constitue fact.


Yep. The only 2 people out of the thousands that I have talked to about this. Most of these folks have had more hours logged into tromping through these woods and desert than anyone can imagine. Ecologists, biologists, forestry personnel, land managers, etc. People that run camera census work and dig through hundreds of thousands of pictures (most likely into the millions) and have yet to see a glimpse of one.

I still have some doubts as to what they saw, cuz I didnt see it with my own eyes, there are no photos, and no one involved in any of the sightings has ever seen one before to make any judgement on that what they saw was actually a cougar... The sister is no stranger to the woods, but you know how everybody "sees" things...

Im not saying they dont exist, but to suggest that they are not a rarity is ridiculous.

No one is going to have facts to the population of these cats, just opinions. There is plenty of documentation around stating that no one has any clue, not even to make an estimate, on the cougar population in this State.

So, there is just as much proof showing that there are many of them as there is proof showing that there isnt.

However, the stats are leaning on the rare side.

Why dont they post that cat capture stuff??? How else could you collect that much information at one time! Thats a ton of stuff! I would like to read it.... The TPWD like TH posted is about all the good info thats out there.


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## buckcrshr (Nov 8, 2010)

oOslikOo said:


> 25,000,000 people in the state of Texas of which more than half live in a metropolitan area in which they may not leave very often. and if they do they are probably traveling on an interstate corridor. sounds like a good place for a cat!!!!!! further more the more favorable cat environments happen to be the most sparsely populated portions of the state, so its not surprising to me that sightings arent all that common. cats of any kind are very cautious and careful and elusive. ive hunted my whole life albeit not as long as some of the guys on here and only seen a bobcat twice in the stand, one of which was shot and is on the wall. Let the lecturing begin! any cat has the potential to be a dangerous cat and if the OP feels the need to eliminate the threat and does by legal means let him. maybe he has livestock on his place and if he doesnt someone near probably does. cat may have moved into the area looking for food, and livestock will be an easier kill than a deer. to all that object and have used the not kill unless eat it think about this. there are people that do that very thing, provide for their families by raising livestock and the last thing they need is a cat killing off their very livelihood especially in these hard times for those that make a living somewhere other than an office. if you were a cattle, goat or sheep raiser youd be singing a different tune. also i guess non of you have ever shot a ****, coyote or any other varmit then. carry on i have my popcorn in hand.


Ill tell you that anjinsan hasn't - unless he was feeding the family some old boar **** or coyote balls !!!

hahahahahaha


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## aggie2015 (Dec 9, 2010)

thats guys for the entertainment during my engineering class. My .02 is if it is on my property where it can attack our livestock it will be shot on sight. We have many small children out in the woods with us on a regular basis and it is not worth the risk. On another persons property I'm not so certain. And anyone who denies lions attacking cattle are flat wrong I have a friend near victoria who in just 3 years lost 5 calves and had several full grown cows attacked ( I have seen carcasses not eaten and the claw marks left on one the cows who made it). Also a man I worked cows for was stalked by one less than 20 yards away in the san antonia river bottom near tivoli. Not a threat to humans..... The most nerve racking incident happened in POC. We were working on a house only three blocks off of 185 with about one acre of brush next to it almost connecting to powderhorn ranch. The owner who is a family friend told us that they had a lion in their yard the previous day. I would not have believed him had it not been for the claw marks up their oak tree almost to their balcony along with the pictures of it in the tree.....


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## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

RogerB said:


> agreed -
> 
> and the "whole elusive thing is just a crock" - okay - whatever you say mr outdoorsman of the world - the fact that I've seen several dozen big cat tracks over the past 3 years in West Texas and only ONE cat in that time on that property must mean I'm blind? - yeah, whatever.


So you have seen the same set of tracks and one cat (if you know what you are looking for).... That is one cat..... Heaven help us.... They are overpopulated!

The fact that I havent seen one is just as weighted as the fact that you have.... so whats your point?

Thank you for the Outdoorsman of the World award.... now its back down for your nap....


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## G K Chambers (Aug 12, 2005)

buckcrshr said:


> Personally, if I see one of these elusive animals I will drop it where it stands, take a picture of it with myself and my rifle beside it, and post it on 2Cool for all of the anti cat shooters on here to see. !!!!!!!!!!!!


Precisely!

Otherwise you'd just look like a chest beating high tech internet blowhard.

I am absolutely convinced that Rosie CAN take that cat down any time he wants to but he hasn't CHOSEN to yet.


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## Pablo (May 21, 2004)

Great info, TH! 

A family friend of ours has a ranch in the McCoy area and raises quite a few horses. Back in the early 90's, they lost 11 out of 14 colts due to lions. The only reason they saved the other 3 was because they shot the female lion who was the culprit. She wouldn't eat calves, but had developed a taste for horses. At that time, the horse market was still fantastic and they took a significant economic hickey that year. 

I think one mounted on a mesquite branch would look awesome on the wall!


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## jhen (Mar 25, 2011)

justinsfa You must be a city boy


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## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

They do make gorgeous mounts though.... although the Texas ones may be a little more scraggly than their northern buddies....


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## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

But if you shoot one, do your homework on the taxi.... cuz most turn out like this when you price shop...


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## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

jhen said:


> justinsfa You must be a city boy


Why? Because I use logic in my discussion? I guess I am guilty then... Care to add your two cents or is a one line random additive to a topic already pushing your limits?


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## ATE_UP_FISHERMAN (Jun 25, 2004)

justinsfa said:


> But if you shoot one, do your homework on the taxi.... cuz most turn out like this when you price shop...


That first mount reminds me of this guy..


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## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

ATE_UP_FISHERMAN said:


> That first mount reminds me of this guy..


Its wierd how if they dont do things just right, the fierce predator turns into an awkward cat that looks like it wouldnt hurt a fly....

Heck, the second pic looks like it is waiting for a treat after doing a trick!


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## oOslikOo (Jul 13, 2010)

justinsfa said:


> Its wierd how if they dont do things just right, the fierce predator turns into an awkward cat that looks like it wouldnt hurt a fly....
> 
> *Heck, the second pic looks like it is waiting for a treat after doing a trick![/*QUOTE]
> 
> :rotfl:


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## RogerB (Oct 11, 2005)

justinsfa said:


> So you have seen the same set of tracks and one cat (if you know what you are looking for).... That is one cat..... Heaven help us.... They are overpopulated!
> 
> The fact that I havent seen one is just as weighted as the fact that you have.... so whats your point?
> 
> Thank you for the Outdoorsman of the World award.... now its back down for your nap....


I never said anything about overpopulation. and no - they were not the same set of tracks by the same cat -Justinsfa - I'm not trying to get in your business - do me a favor and don't make silly statements. I fully appreciate the fact that you have a respect for them. I do as well, the one I saw? I let walk - it would have been easy to drop him but I didn't. Took a lot of **** for it back at camp but that was okay too - my decision.

but I can tell you this - there's been times, and circumstances - when, if given the opportunity - I would have easily dropped a big cat if I could have found it. 
and more thing - you can disrespect me all you want - if that's what trips your trigger knock yourself out. I can easily put you on ignore, I'd rather not because there are some things you post I enjoy but I don't have to nor do I need to listen to "take a nap" - have a good day.


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## 11andy11 (Aug 12, 2004)

try and be a better shot than this fellow
http://trophyroom.com/video/lls8ViwJcT


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## Gilbert (May 25, 2004)

RogerB said:


> :rotfl: different cougar Gilbert :rotfl:


oh. :help: my bad. :cheers:


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## G K Chambers (Aug 12, 2005)

Enough of this foolishness!

I'm becoming very concerned. No word from Rosie and, I hate to put a deadline on a lion hunt, Teal season opens Saturday morning. A horde of duckhunters will be invading Colorado County and Rosie is all that stands between the vicious giant cat and armed men in camouflage.

A legion of hapless fools destined for mathematically possible death and while they might have semiautomatic shotguns they will lack the night vision and restrained chickens that might give them a chance at survival.

While sitting in the stand and rustling the feedbag is a time tested Texas trophy tactic a change may be required. After reviewing "The Ghost and the Darkness" it may be necessary for Rosie to go Val Kilmer on this lion and use himself as bait. It might help if he could come up with a baboon too. Apparently the cafeteria plan is more effective than the no choice single service approach.

It's a lot ask but if anyone can go "hombre y leon" and tell the tale I know it's Rosie.





A lot of folks will sleep safely in their beds with smiles on their faces tonight.

Knowing he's out there. Waiting in the darkness. The cougar killer of Colorado County. Waiting. Waiting and protecting.


Calling like a chicken every now and then to draw the puma close.

Still waiting.


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## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

RogerB said:


> I never said anything about overpopulation. and no - they were not the same set of tracks by the same cat -Justinsfa - I'm not trying to get in your business - do me a favor and don't make silly statements. I fully appreciate the fact that you have a respect for them. I do as well, the one I saw? I let walk - it would have been easy to drop him but I didn't. Took a lot of **** for it back at camp but that was okay too - my decision.
> 
> but I can tell you this - there's been times, and circumstances - when, if given the opportunity - I would have easily dropped a big cat if I could have found it.
> and more thing - you can disrespect me all you want - if that's what trips your trigger knock yourself out. I can easily put you on ignore, I'd rather not because there are some things you post I enjoy but I don't have to nor do I need to listen to "take a nap" - have a good day.


Well apparently we have an expert cat tracker on our hands! haha...

You have made silly and rude comments on here for years.... but I have noticed the minute someone fires back, you get all teary eyed and whiny and claim that you are being disrespected.

I treat others with the same respect that I receive, whether they are 13 years old or 93 years old... you constantly down others because you believe that because of your age, you are more wise (I am actually suprised you havent tossed that card down in this discussion yet).... I am sorry bud, but you dont get wisdom automatically when you age... the only thing that is automatic with age are wrinkles and an AARP card (and bigger ears, but I already have big ears, so I dont mention that one). You have to work at the wisdom.

I hardly consider my comments as disrespectful, but apparently, since something is now aimed at you, it is now seen as such. You can surrrrre dish it out though, but heaven forbid someone toss a little back at ya.

I find your comments often disrespectful, but I dont moan and groan about it.... I just anty up some IN YO FACE research and information or a smart allec rebuttal and let you wallow around in your wrongness.... lol

All that pesonal stuff aside.....

I applaud you on passing a shot on a cat (even though I am not opposed to taking one in the first place). I dont think they deserve a bounty on their heads as they are truly magnificient and quite rare.

I thoroughly enjoy the debates on here folks! I learn all kinds of stuff! One day I will be the Outdoorsman of the World ANNNND the Smartest Person in the World at the same time!!! haha

Roger, you can be my secretary....

PS... Im not doing the sappy love hug thing that Spec and DE are doing.... so dont hold your breath.


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## finkikin (Jul 8, 2011)

We have found some tracks at The Farm up in east Tx by the big lake and there was a deer buried under a leaf pile with puncture holes all in the skull. never saw the cat but we know they are there. very cool animals and also very shootable...

so, what ever happend with Ranch? did you get em?


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## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

A mountain lion hunt in the NW is on my bucket list.... there are plenty up there. I have been trying to find a YOUTUBE video that I saw a while back of a guy hung up in a cave with one... but I cant find it to post up.

It was pretty intense.

Like many of the other items on my list, I am going to wait til I have a house large enough to be able to display such an animal the way it should be. A cat that big would take up half my living room right now....


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## RogerB (Oct 11, 2005)

oh for christ sake okay - I'm a whinny baby - whatever - enough nonsense - where is WR? he hasn't posted - and like others - I'm beginning to wonder.


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## jimk (May 28, 2004)

G K Chambers said:


> Enough of this foolishness!
> 
> I'm becoming very concerned. No word from Rosie and, I hate to put a deadline on a lion hunt, Teal season opens Saturday morning. A horde of duckhunters will be invading Colorado County and Rosie is all that stands between the vicious giant cat and armed men in camouflage.
> 
> ...


If you really want to get rid of it...I'm for hire. I need bukkskin to help, though, because it's his plan.

The Plan:
Tie a large t-bone steak to your hiney(sp) and walk down a sendero close to where the monster is...this is bukkskin's job!

I walk behind him and shoot the monster when it comes out...oughta work really well.

Even if it doesn't...what's a few teal hunters lost to a hungry cougar?


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## solrac (Aug 31, 2007)

LIVE BAIT STATION?

Looking forward to the OP updating this thread.....


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## spurgersalty (Jun 29, 2010)

justinsfa said:


> A mountain lion hunt in the NW is on my bucket list.... there are plenty up there. I have been trying to find a YOUTUBE video that I saw a while back of a guy hung up in a cave with one... but I cant find it to post up.
> 
> It was pretty intense.
> 
> Like many of the other items on my list, I am going to wait til I have a house large enough to be able to display such an animal the way it should be. A cat that big would take up half my living room right now....


I seen something similar on a hunting show. They were using dogs and one of the dogs went into a cave just big enough for it and was holed up with the cat. 
Two guys then crawled in after them to retrieve their dog with pistols and a friggin "pencil" light. A minute went by then all help broke loose. Multiple gunshots, a minute later, guys come out with dog still alive. Said he shot cat at point blank range (in his face) whole on his hands and knees. His balls have to be as big as my head doing that kinda stuff.


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## Capt. Marcus Canales (Aug 25, 2005)

RogerB said:


> oh for christ sake okay - I'm a whinny baby - whatever - enough nonsense - where is WR? he hasn't posted - and like others - I'm beginning to wonder.


Hehehehe, hello Roger! :cheers:

Sent from my mind to the internet using Tapatalk


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## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

spurgersalty said:


> I seen something similar on a hunting show. They were using dogs and one of the dogs went into a cave just big enough for it and was holed up with the cat.
> Two guys then crawled in after them to retrieve their dog with pistols and a friggin "pencil" light. A minute went by then all help broke loose. Multiple gunshots, a minute later, guys come out with dog still alive. Said he shot cat at point blank range (in his face) whole on his hands and knees. His balls have to be as big as my head doing that kinda stuff.


You must have a gigantic head.... haha

This clip was quite similar. A couple of guys had one holed up in a cave and one went in after it.... then it ran out straight at the guy yielding a flashlight and a camera. He fired a few times when it ran him over.

I think I saw it mixed in with some video of African lion attacks.

PS... WR... dont be upset, but your trap shall be empty again tonight.... thanks for the donation! I left the feet again for you though....


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## RogerB (Oct 11, 2005)

osoobsessed said:


> Hehehehe, hello Roger! :cheers:
> 
> Sent from my mind to the internet using Tapatalk


hello Marcus - be careful - you'll be accused of humoring an old man who needs his naps 
but that's okay - I'll just take my tired ol' butt on vacation and let these junior woodchucks figure out how to fix the worlds problems - wouldn't want to be accused of being bully waaaaaaaaaaaa. or a whinny baby waaaaaaaaaaa waaaaaaaaa. 
:rotfl: :rotfl:

come on WR status report - I know you're on here. what's the scoop?


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## Bukkskin (Oct 21, 2009)

jimk said:


> If you really want to get rid of it...I'm for hire. I need bukkskin to help, though, because it's his plan.
> 
> The Plan:
> Tie a large t-bone steak to your hiney(sp) and walk down a sendero close to where the monster is...this is bukkskin's job!
> ...


Bawaaahahah!! You remembered that, LOL, That old thread was quite a while ago.
You got it backwards, though, Jimk. *Your* walkin and draggin and *I'm* shoot'n. I still got my trusty "Sharpfinger" knife, in case there is a misfire or somethin. No Worries Mate.


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## w_r_ranch (Jan 14, 2005)

activescrape said:


> W.R., it occurs to me he knew you were there. He probably curled up down wind of you and waited you out. After you left he came in to investigate. I doubt you will get him. He is on to you now.


I was in a stand on the edge of the tank downwind of the bait. I was hoping that it would come for water as everything is drier than a bone. Nothing came to the tank Tuesday night... Last night, all I saw were does & a couple of decent bucks, so it probably was not around. I hope your wrong about him being on to me though... If it's in the cards, I will eventually get a shot.



Trouthunter said:


> Below is some good information about the mountain lion-cougar-puma whatever you want to call it. The data is old so some things have more than likely changed over time but the gist of the article might enlighten those who have an open mind and are eager to learn.


Excellent info, however I doubt that the PETA folks that have post are capable of being enlightened...



G K Chambers said:


> No report from Captain Ahab this morning?
> 
> Would hate to think the defender of Colorado County women, children, and livestock may have dozed off during the night with that mighty killing machine out there in the darkness creeping silently closer and closer until......
> 
> On the other hand, his profile indicates gardening is one of his interests, so maybe he is just out watering his petunias or something.


'Captain Ahab' didn't get out of the stand till 0630 hrs and was racked out by the time of your post. Maybe you should try it sometime & then run here to post how great you feel. On the bright side, I still have bait that is alive for tomorrow night...



RogerB said:


> knowing WR - he's probably having chicken fried mountain lion steak, smothered in country gravy and stack of flap jacks.


Nothin' that gourmet, I afraid... Just some dried sausage & crackers with my coffee.











RogerB said:


> oh for christ sake okay - I'm a whinny baby - whatever - enough nonsense - where is WR? he hasn't posted - and like others - I'm beginning to wonder.





devil1824 said:


> Speaking of old farts, Where is ol' saggy nutz? Did u choot it? :rotfl:


Not yet... still waiting for an opportunity.

And 'devil', don't starting no rumors about my nutz being saggy.... Remember, one of these days you may be an old fart too.











G K Chambers said:


> Rosie is all that stands between the vicious giant cat and armed men in camouflage.
> 
> A legion of hapless fools destined for mathematically possible death and while they might have semiautomatic shotguns they will lack the night vision and restrained chickens that might give them a chance at survival.
> 
> ...


Your wife must be a lonely woman... Just sayin'. :cheers:



justinsfa said:


> WR... dont be upset, but your trap shall be empty again tonight.... thanks for the donation! I left the feet again for you though....


Another funny person from SFA... I doubt that you would have the sac to walk in the woods at night, let alone under my stand. Nobody would miss you since you bring so little to any discussion.

Here's the chicken, come & get it. BANG!!! One less vote for 'hope & change. LOL!!!

Roger, I'll keep you posted on what is going on with this. Feel free to pass it on to the others that are actually interested. I see no reason to put up with the rest of these morons... Life is to short to tolerate morons.

:cheers:

WRR


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## RogerB (Oct 11, 2005)

w_r_ranch said:


> Roger, I'll keep you posted on what is going on with this. Feel free to pass it on to the others that are actually interested. I see no reason to put up with the rest of these morons... Life is to short to tolerate morons.
> 
> :cheers:
> 
> WRR


cool! good luck bubba - Git 'er done!!


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## Capt. Marcus Canales (Aug 25, 2005)

Hay now, im interested too!

Good luck on the hunt, WR :cheers: 

Sent from my mind to the internet using Tapatalk


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## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

http://2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/member.php?u=42400justinsfa, obviously you didn't read the study that I posted. Might want to do that before you continue down the lane that you're traveling.

TH


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