# Ultimate RC needs the racers input



## monsterslash (Aug 4, 2010)

It was brought to my attention today that we will not be a part of the HARC series for next year because the track does not draw a big enough crowd and in order for our hobby to grow "we need numbers" as I was told. Well let's get real for just a minute I have been racing with you guys for some time now and can say all tracks have had some good showings and bad showings but with the opportunity of racing four tracks next year and not just three is what I was looking foward to as a racer and as for our hobby growing we need exposure in a broader spectrum which is what we would get with four tracks instead of three.I did try to make sense of this but just can't so if I have missed something let me know.

Please help me make sense of this.


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## pimprice (Jul 27, 2011)

it's kinda hard to get to. not enough signs and nothing to help me access the place. no website, the shop hasn't been open the last few times i've been there either.


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## killerkustoms (Nov 6, 2008)

Wow, no Harc for you guys next year, yall are the closest track to me. My vote doesn't count as I have not attended many Harcs this year and have race mostly out of town events.


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## JANKEII (Feb 2, 2006)

What kind of numbers work for Ultimate?


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## Labrat99 (May 6, 2009)

I'm hoping nothing is set in stone yet. With the changes Glen made the driver's stand is the best in town. The new watering system worked great at the last race and you guys did a terrific job grooming the track between rounds. There is going to be a huge turnout for the State Finals so maybe some momentum for the November round and even next year can be kicked off from those races.


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## Merdith (Sep 20, 2009)

*dIRT*

you gotta buy real dirt, the stuff dug up around the track sucks for rc cars.....I've given this input several times and apparently I don't know what i'm talking about......So no big deal.....


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## darrenwilliams (Apr 21, 2008)

Unfortunately, I'm going to have to agree with the decession. The track has been on a steady decline since Glen took over the operations of the track and the attendance has done the same. This tends to feed each other. With low turnouts, he does not want to invest the time and money it. Without the investment, the attendance continues to decline.

To Glen, Ultimate RC is a business. To all the rest of us, it is a place to go drive RC cars with friends, enjoy some competition or for even a few to obsess over this hobby/sport. The track is being built and somewhat maintained by someone who understands MX tracks very well but there is a huge diffence between MX and RC tracks. Because Glen does not participate in driving and racing RC cars, he does not truely understand how to build a "High Quality Track." RC cars with 3" wheels are going to handle bumps and ruts much differently that MX bikes with ~30" wheels. The view from the drivers stand is a lot different than looking over MX handlebars or the steering wheel of the tractor.

When Ultimate was first constructed the dirt was a much better quality but still left a little to be desired. When the track was enlarged, the dirt brought in was of a much lesser quality. And it was brought in by the truck load. The dirt is very difficult to work with. I say this from experience working on this track. All of Glen's dozers and loaders are very large and great at setting up the initial layout but are too cumbersome and the tires do so much damage to the track to be able to do anything close to finish work with them. The large pieces of clay make it extremely difficult to face jumps and landings as well as smooth out the turns and straights. 

During races and even practice water is used too much on this track. When the track is wet everyone gets great traction but it is at the expense of the track surface. All the sand is pulled from the track and the large pieces of clay are left behind. I know that everyone complained at the last HARC race for the dry conditions while the pump was out. The track would have performed differently if it were prepared to be run dry. I still support the decision to not heavily water the track the week prior due to the threats of rain and the reasonable expectation of having water on race day.

I return to this is a business for Glen. His customers have given two major complaints. The dirt and the lighting suck. He has made a reasonable addition to the lighting but has done nothing and I expect will continue to do nothing with the dirt. Give your customers what they want.

Lastly. There are too many tracks in the Houston area for the amount of racers that we have. One is going to die. Mike's is a world class facility with a larger capital investment in RC than I would have thought possible and a huge following. They are not going anywhere. Katy RC is off to a great start and improving weekly. They have a very nice facility, a huge support team of racers living within miles, a huge potential market in their location and a paid staff working on the track. I expect this track to excel. River Track is privately owned and will continue to the be there if no one but Ken out there. It's not going anywhere. I have expected that Ultimate will close at some point soon after Glen collects his check for the RC Pro.

All of this being said. I will be at Ultimate Sunday morning, bright and early to get some work done on a great layout for the RC Pro.


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## tebone626 (Apr 25, 2010)

im gonna hate to see this track go. this past weekend, the track was in awesome condition. alot better than it has been. it looks like Glen is trying to make it better, just hope its not to late


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## Labrat99 (May 6, 2009)

I don't get what's going on here. Why would you guys want to kill off an operating track? It's not like these things grow on trees.

I've probably put in more laps at Vertigo than anybody and claims that the dirt is bad are just BS. When it's watered and packed, Ultimate has at LEAST as good a surface as the River Track. I've only been to Katy once but I didn't notice anything "special" about the dirt there either. As a matter of fact the day I was there chunks were coming up out of it in several places.

I was at Ultimate a couple of weeks ago and talked to Glen for over an hour. He wants to make this work. He's already bought a machine for packing the jump faces. He's fixed the driver's stand so that you don't need a stool to stand on and you no longer need to lean out to see around a post.

In a nutshell, I don't see where anybody except another track owner gains if Ultimate goes away and ALL the racers lose.

My $.02.


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## pimprice (Jul 27, 2011)

There are too many tracks in Houston? They are all spread out around town. It's nice to have one around the south side of town. Word on the street is that odyssey hobbies and rc hobby shop will soon be moving and building tracks too! I can't wait!


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## Hogster (Jan 21, 2010)

Completly agree with Rusty. This would make no sense and I'm hoping whatever was said to you Lance was maybe here say or someone thinking out loud for a second. 
I bought a buggy and started racing because The vertigo track was there when I was dirt biking on the Ultimate Moto Track. 


Waiting to here the "official" word from CV or a comment to this possible rumor.


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## Ducatibilt (Jul 8, 2010)

I'm confused here. 
If we're strictly talking numbers of entries as an issue, doesn't Ultimate pull higher numbers than the River? If there is something else at work here I guess it would help to know what that something is. 

Ultimate isn't perfect but Glenn has been responsive to requests to make the track better, I understand what Darren is saying about the track surface but does anyone know if Glenn is actually aware of the complaints about the surface.

I personally hope we can put all 4 tracks on the schedule for next year, I don't want any of them to drop off of the schedule or fall by the wayside. Each track brings something different to the table in terms of the racing and the overall atmosphere. 
We're pretty fortunate to have the people here in Houston willing to put forth the effort to open these 4 tracks for us and then the volunteers who support them. 

All that being said, this is Courtney's ship to steer and I will be there to support the series whenever possible.


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

Back when I was in college, we would go to new bars/clubs and man they would be PACKED! But then 6 months to a year later, something would happen that no one could pin point, and people would start going elsewhere. It goes with the old adage that bar/club owners change their name and location every year or two so they can keep their business going strong. The point of this statement is that at some point, some kind of intangible quality that built the place in the beginning gets lost and the decline begins. Sometimes the bar/club owner sinks money into it, makes all kinds of changes to the interior/exterior/menu/etc, but it's usually to no avail. That "X" factor is already gone, and there's not much you can do about it. The regulars are still there and will always be there, and it's no reflection on the management or ownership&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;it's just a cycle that happens.

Since I've been coming to Houston to race, I've seen at least 5 tracks come and go. It's unfortunate, but it's reality. 
Feel free to ask around to the key people in the Houston race scene, and they'll tell you I've been mulling this over for several months, and have not come to this decision lightly or impulsively. It is well thought out and I knew that if I made this decision it would inevitably make some people upset&#8230;&#8230;..people whom I consider friends&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;which REALLY sucks. 

I'm on vacation at the moment and I'm already in the doghouse for working and being on the computer, so I'll keep this short and sweet and won't go into the 20+ factors that I literally wrote down on a pros/cons chart. All I will say is that to those of you who know how and why I organize HARC and deal with carp like this is because I love to race, and without someone doing this job, there would be no club like what we have now and racing in Houston would not be as it is today. 

So I'll sum this up by confirming that this not just a rumor or here-say. Effective as of today the HARC series will not be rotating to Ultimate RC. Again, this was a pain-staking decision to make, and was not taken lightly or short-sidedly. I would like to re-iterate my track record of growing our race series, and the overall attitude of "fun and helping others trumps competition" that we have achieved should speak for itself. I would NOT make this decision if I didn't think that it was for the longevity of our club, and to keep the growth and attitude we have.
Guys, PPLLLEEEAAASSSEEE trust that there is no financial or personal motive here, and that I will continue to steer this ship in the right direction. It was veering off course some, and I took action to correct it. Again, I consider all you guys my friends and would never do anything to hurt my friends. But organizing this series has become very much like a child to me. And those of you who are parents know that sometimes you have to make a difficult decision that your child does not like, so that in the long-run things will be as you want them to be for them. This is nothing different.

The last thing I'll say is that I asked that this be kept quiet until I got to speak with Glen and to make the announcement myself so that I could explain my position. Unfortunately it didn't work&#8230;&#8230;.this is NOT how I wanted Glen to find out&#8230;&#8230;.I wanted to speak with him myself.


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## Labrat99 (May 6, 2009)

This is wrong on so many levels Courtney....


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## Ducatibilt (Jul 8, 2010)

Just to clarify when you say "effective as of today", does this mean the race scheduled for Oct 22 is still on or is it off?


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## Hogster (Jan 21, 2010)

Lol!!!! Bars/ xfactor??? It's a shame one person is deciding this, i would think you should have as many tracks as possible to grow the sport. If track attendance is most important for the "numbers" then hold all races at mikes... Again agree with Rusty. I'm sure the thread will be deleted soon. It's a shame to I have a lot to say but not enough time at the moment. And who are the " key people" we should talk to??? I'm not mad at ya Courtney just very dissappointed in a decision that really has no justification.


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## JakeD (May 27, 2007)

+1 Rusty and Rob


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## Bigj (Jul 22, 2007)

It should be up to the people who race at these races not one sole person. As they say build it they will come. I try to race as much as possable im a shift worker cant make them all.Never falls in line with may Schedule.


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## kstoracing (Oct 30, 2008)

I haven't made a HARC race yet but, it feels that this isn't a good decision. Since turnout is [email protected] one location. That track should make the decision to stop participation. They are the entity losing revenue, not HARC. Imo, it should be a track vote of owners and CV with a deciding vote if tied.

I don't see how excluding a track that has been included with the series for 18+ months should be excluded in mid season. The very least they should be able to complete the season. 4 tracks isn't a lot.each gets a fair rotation. If one has low turnout, it is up to that track to entice racers. Not for a director to drop them when its no cost to the director. 

I say finish out the season as is. Year end vote or allow the track to try and address any issues.


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## sc racer (Jul 24, 2011)

Ugh oh... somebody got some splainin' to do.


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## killerkustoms (Nov 6, 2008)

Wow, haven't check this thread since yesterday and it has gotten very interesting, I see David Lovett's post got deleted any one know what was the posted?


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

David asked me to remove references to RC Pro....


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## Ducatibilt (Jul 8, 2010)

killerkustoms said:


> Wow, haven't check this thread since yesterday and it has gotten very interesting, I see David Lovett's post got deleted any one know what was the posted?


He said you were a sandbagging flip-flopper so Courtney had to delete it because it was a personal attack!

Now back to the novela!


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## killerkustoms (Nov 6, 2008)

Ducatibilt said:


> He said you were a sandbagging flip-flopper so Courtney had to delete it because it was a personal attack!
> 
> Now back to the novela!


LMAO, you owe me a coke Damon, I just spit it all out reading your post, and your right lets get back to the novela!


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## Labrat99 (May 6, 2009)

Yep. That was funny, I don't care who you are.


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## dlovett6 (Feb 9, 2009)

Going to have to hang out here more often.. You guys are funny..


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## kstoracing (Oct 30, 2008)

Genius CV genius.


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## Ducatibilt (Jul 8, 2010)

killerkustoms said:


> LMAO, you owe me a coke Damon, I just spit it all out reading your post, and your right lets get back to the novela!


Can't pay you back this weekend because we will be BOYCOTTING this HARC race in protest! (We were actually going to be out of town this weekend anyway just don't tell Courtney)

By the way Rubine, my long term goal for Dane is to one day be called a sandbagger. It seems to be a way more impressive title than either expert or pro!


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## kstoracing (Oct 30, 2008)

Ducatibilt said:


> Can't pay you back this weekend because we will be BOYCOTTING this HARC race in protest! (We were actually going to be out of town this weekend anyway just don't tell Courtney)
> 
> By the way Rubine, my long term goal for Dane is to one day be called a sandbagger. It seems to be a way more impressive title than either expert or pro!


Yeah, Pro/Expert is overrated it just means you have to stand and hold it longer. Sportsman is short and sweet...lol.


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## jasonwipf (Feb 23, 2009)

What ever happened to A, B, C & D mains? Now we got novice, sportsman, expert, pro and in some places senior class for the old farts.


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## Ducatibilt (Jul 8, 2010)

Someone help me here.
What's that called in baseball again when you take a huge swing at a pitch and you totally miss?????










Oh yeah, a Wipf!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## TX_Punisher (Jul 16, 2011)

monsterslash said:


> It was brought to my attention today that we will not be a part of the HARC series for next year because the track does not draw a big enough crowd and in order for our hobby to grow "we need numbers" as I was told. Well let's get real for just a minute I have been racing with you guys for some time now and can say all tracks have had some good showings and bad showings but with the opportunity of racing four tracks next year and not just three is what I was looking foward to as a racer and as for our hobby growing we need exposure in a broader spectrum which is what we would get with four tracks instead of three.I did try to make sense of this but just can't so if I have missed something let me know.
> 
> Please help me make sense of this.




Sounds a bit premature. I would have at least waited to see what changes are being made for the finals next month.

Personally, I think it would get boring racing on the same type of surface on a frequent basis. Having some variety keeps things interesting.


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## katjim00 (Jan 8, 2009)

Merdith said:


> you gotta buy real dirt, the stuff dug up around the track sucks for rc cars.....I've given this input several times and apparently I don't know what i'm talking about......So no big deal.....


This statement is awesome. I am in the dirt business. You definately do not know what you are talking about.


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## Gary (May 21, 2004)

I'm going back to planes. Cars for sale soon.


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## Z-Man. (Mar 20, 2011)

Gary said:


> I'm going back to planes. Cars for sale soon.


LOL. yea, alot less drama in airplanes.


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## TonyLunaTic (Jul 3, 2010)

I haven't had the pleasure go to Ultimate or even know who Glenn is, due to work. But I have been a racer for a very long time and previous track and shop owner and I completely know what Glenn and Ultimate are facing. It happened to me with THRC AND SWCS club/organizers when I was in business.

These Clubs have no initial or long term investment in any track and yet can make or break it by its following. It's just sad.

Glenn if you can email I have a couple of ideas for you. [email protected]


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## Merdith (Sep 20, 2009)

*well*



katjim00 said:


> This statement is awesome. I am in the dirt business. You definately do not know what you are talking about.


I do know how to spell, so go ahead and get your degree in dirt...

*D-E-F-I-N-I-T-E-L-Yjavascript:void(0)*


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## GoFaster (May 4, 2005)

Gary said:


> I'm going back to planes. Cars for sale soon.


Well, I could have told you that. Lol. Biff, if we would stay off the internet and go race, then we wouldn't have these issues and we would all get along


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

TonyLunaTic said:


> These Clubs have no initial or long term investment in any track and yet can make or break it by its following. It's just sad.


Some of this statement is true. As it says, I have ZERO initial or long term investment in ANY of the tracks. What is untrue about this statement though, is that it continues to infer the false idea that people have that seems to think I stand to gain something out of doing what I do. Those of you who bother to ask how things are run know that I collect ZERO money, I gain ZERO revenue, and there are NO kickbacks from tracks. This is not THRC or SWCS where there are fees and percentages and meetings and groups of leaders.........it's nothing more than me spending (or should I say "wasting" at this point) my valuable time and money. I have probably spent $2000+ out of my own pocket over the past 4-1/2 years, have listened to COUNTLESS people complain at EVERY race, and continue to lose valuable hours of time that I could either be spending with my family, or making money at work.​
I started HARC by just trying to get people organized and get a good race scene built up. A lot of great people and tracks have helped me along the way and have been supportive, and for that I'm truly thankful......you guys know who you are and what you do. What I did not foresee in the beginning was if we got to a certain point in size, that some tracks may become dependent on HARC for the existence of their track. I still stand by the decision that I've made, because a track SHOULD be able to stand on it's own, and should not be a viable business venture if it's depending on the organization skills of someone like me who does nothing more than attempt to convince a group of people to go to the same place on the same day so that we have a collective day of fun every month. Nothing more, nothing less. This was a decision that I made so that we could still have this group and still have it growing 5 years from now. Unfortunately, people are only seeing how it affects their own personal needs/wants.

Personally guys, I don't need this stress and don't want it.........the attitude response and lack of trust in my guidance honestly makes me angry, and at the same time sick to my stomach that I'm hurting people's feelings (people whom I consider friends). There are SOOOOO many factors that were involved and I'm completely shocked that people can't see that.

I'm not going to post anything more on this thread, and I'll let it stay as long as it doesn't get too ugly. I will leave you with two things to think about:

1) Now taking applications for HARC director. You can email me at [email protected] or PM me on this forum if you're interested.

2) This is what I have/had in store for next year for HARC to insert some fun and excitement:
-Addition of Katy RC track to the rotation
-Double points during the summer
-Bonus points for attending races at any local track
-15 Minute E-Buggy Expert A-Mains
-Enduro races at all the local tracks

I'm done with this argument and trying to explain myself. If someone else wants to and can legitimately do this job, then by all means please contact me.


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## Gary (May 21, 2004)

Guess Ill pitch in here since I'm probably the most veteran here cept maybe Mad Dog. Tony has a point. Organized racing can hurt track attendance. When Danny left THRC they went hog wild and tried to take over ALL the racing scene dictating all the schedules. When I asked certain tracks if they could have racing on Sunday's, it was THRC that told me no!

I don't see HARC doing that and I honestly think CV is nutz for running HARC. I think he is doing a good job but I have to ask, why? I know how much pressure it must be because I founded a pretty big team back in the day. Although very successful, it turned out to be a full time job and extremely stressful. I got death threats, a track owner in Dallas calling my job trying to get me fired, I even had a guy call me with a gun pointed at his head and I had to talk him down.

Was it worth it all?

Yea, I guess so. It put Houston on the proverbial RC map and we raised a lot of money for the Shriners. I wouldn't do it again though.

CV, your doing a good job, but eventually HARC will run it's course and I know your smart enough to know when to pull the plug. Don't ever let it get to you and never take it personally. Youll never please everyone and if you try, youll end up a grumpy old man like me.


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## Hogster (Jan 21, 2010)

Courtney don't give up!! I for one and I imagine said or unsaid everyone else appreciates everything you've done and do with HARC whether they agree or disagree with the decision. I also plan to run HARC no matter what. It's the one race a month I look forward to and the only time I clean my car or at least take it out the truck.

I had more typed up but it takes so long on the iPhone and a hundred mistakes later to correct by the time I post it it logs me out and when I try to log in I mistype the password. 

Sorry if my post upset you. I may not agree with the decision but I do agree that you should be the one running it. Who else could have the passion and drive to do so and without personal gain from money or whatever. I'm glad we have someone willing to do so and do it well.

I also look forward to running HARC at Katy. I like the track and people! Great group! If ultimate isn't in the mix yep I'll be disappointed because I also like that track and my personal wants or needs is that it's close


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## Labrat99 (May 6, 2009)

The way I see it Courtney, in this case all the stress and worry has been self-inflicted. If you'd have added Katy NEXT season instead of replacing Ultimate now we wouldn't be having this debate. I'd still like to hear some sort of rational reason for this move, but I don't expect to because I don't think one exists.

If this is all about having fun racing with friends, what does it matter if attendance is not what you'd like it to be at Ultimate?

I'm tired of the whole deal. Good luck.


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## katjim00 (Jan 8, 2009)

Merdith said:


> I do know how to spell, so go ahead and get your degree in dirt...
> 
> *D-E-F-I-N-I-T-E-L-Y*


LOL...go with what you know then.


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## katjim00 (Jan 8, 2009)

CV...You know I don't care one way or the other since I don't race anymore. You also know that I don't mind voiceing my opinion based on what I know that I have learned from experience. HARC is your deal and you can run it how you wish, I honestly believe that. You want to make some money off it go ahead brother, all the crud you put up with and do you deserve to. But when you make a big decision that effects people and businesses in that kind of way I think you need to be straight forward and lay it all out there so people understand all involved. Sometimes you can't sugar coat your words just to stay PC. 

There is one unified racing club in houston for offroad and HARC is it. If they snub a track, that track will shut down more than likely. I know that is not your intention, but that is the reality. Grow the hobby like you want, but freezing out a track is not the way to do it.


Maddog...go ahead and do a spell check for me. You find any errors feel free to fix them for me and show me the correct way to spell the mispelled word. I don't use spell check.:rotfl:


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## TonyLunaTic (Jul 3, 2010)

As I stated in my post "Its just sad" thats it. I have nothing against anyone. I was simply telling my point of view based on pure experience. And for the record I dont blame anyone our club for my closure, its was a mixture of things.


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## killerkustoms (Nov 6, 2008)

Great job Rob/Damon, look what ya'll done did.


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## j-e (Jun 22, 2011)

Courtney Vaughan said:


> "I started HARC by just trying to get people organized and get a good race scene built up." "...that some tracks may become dependent on HARC for the existence of their track. I still stand by the decision that I've made, because a track SHOULD be able to stand on it's own, and should not be a viable business venture if it's depending on the organization skills of someone like me who does nothing more than attempt to convince a group of people to go to the same place on the same day so that we have a collective day of fun every month." "Unfortunately, people are only seeing how it affects their own personal needs/wants."


You are 100% right! I personally like vertigo, but, if it's only open for HARC, then it's obvious that the track isn't in bussiness, except, only to profit from HARC. otherwise they'd be pushing for a more regular schedule for a regular crowd. I'd like to just show up any random weekend to run there, but, it's not open. So, I totally see C.V's point, HARC races should be run at facilities that cater to rc enthusiasts "on it's own", it's a formula that has more potential to grow HARC attedance, as well as, people simply getting into the hobby of racing.

Tracks may come and go, but, it's more important that the members stick together. It's us that makes the HARC series fun, no matter what tracks are included.

my .02

thanks Courtney!!! the HARC series helps give purpose to the hobby, and is a huge part of why I got as into this as I did!


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## Hogster (Jan 21, 2010)

Ultimate is open always has been 7 days a week unless there's track work or the gate is closed which is rare. If it's raining and you wanna drive on it go for it. If the gate is open and no one around drive the track and they'll come say hi and collect the fee later. They spend some time working the motocross track throughout the day.


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## Merdith (Sep 20, 2009)

*Yep*

I don't think not being in the HARC series is such big deal. I mean I love Vertigo and it certainly belongs in the series, but it's could be good for the club racing to come back around. My favorite racing has always been a good old club race, and being the top track with the most turnout isn't so important.

It has been a tough year for lots of people...

keep on posting all the dates for club races so everyone will know. Hopefully the awesome track will end up having more fun and less worry.

I spent the evening out at the river and ******* was there with Ken and we had a blast just running the buggies...

I agree with Biff, big races can hurt the tracks in different ways, the most steady involvement is always the local racers and the core groups that support the track.

I've always have nothing but good times at Vertigo, I hope I can make it out to race there soon. I don't care if it's a club race or a fun practice day. Some of my best setup and engine testing has been at Vertigo. 
I'm not planning on being a National champ. I just like to race my buggy and hang out with friends, and meet new ones too...

Dereck is one of the nicest guys around. Meeting him at Vertigo was awesome. He never curses and always has nothing but kind words about everyone. He shows up at the river and has been active in the series.

and Courtney, don't sweat it man, you do what you think you should do, and we will go race wherever we want to. Either way we have a great group of racers in the Houston area, and some dang fast drivers. Lots of coolness to go around.....


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## Gary (May 21, 2004)

How many here saw the end of Houston RC? It was weird. They averaged 125 races at a regular Saturday night club race. Then just overnight, it died.


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## Tol Thomas (Feb 18, 2005)

My self and Gary, I think, are some of the oldest racers here. I have been racing around houston since 88- 89. I have seen many tracks come and go. Seen clubs come and go. There are THREE sides of this and I understand them (well, think I do) and will try to explain them from MY point of view and experience.

FIRST from the HARC point of view:

With HARC trying to build its club and following, it can not in good standing go to tracks that people either do not attend or complain about. It creates a negative atmospher and no one likes to be part of these types of groups. When the club has no benifit other than growing participants in the club and comradery between different people from different parts of town (remember that some people drive from different directions for hours to attend, that gives a 1 hour radius to houston). I can completely understand in his decision.

SECOND from the TRACKS point of view:

With tracks opening up around town, knowing there are clubs that rotate around to help promote racing at different tracks, they count on this to do many things: bring exposure to their facility, bring racers to help get established, and hopefully have experience help new racers learn. With how the racing scene in houston has fallen over the past 5-10 years compared to the 5-10 years prior to that, tracks just can not grow tany following without outside exposure through any local racing clubs. Lossing club support even for 2-4 races a years is basically a death sentence tot he track.

THIRD from the RACERS point of view:

_Keep in mind that this is a generic input and does not reflect opinions on any track, I have raced at well over 50 different facilities around the country and this is an accumulation of all._
Racers mentality has changed over the years, thus tracks either grow and thrive or they wither away and close. The changes in the racers has be brought on from tracks that raised the bar (Houston RC, K&M Racing, Mikes, AREA 51 (no longer hee), etc...). This has brought the mentality of racers to expect a perfect surface to race on. Yet when you attend many if not most MAJOR races that have 200-500 entries, the tracks do not hold together and perform as they are built. Thoughout the event, the track is constantly getting tore up and changing. Imagine a track when you arrive to practice on thursday was perfect, every jump jumpable, every turn smooth, the straight fast and level just to have it completely un drivable by the 3rd round of qualifying. This has happened to tracks around the country, MANY tracks here in HOUSTON, and will continue to happen EVERYWHERE. Racers all need to realize one of the following, do you want to race onroad where the track rarely changes (95% temperature and rarely the surface), are you there to hang out with fellow enthusiats and have fun and play, OR there to compete in offroad racing and learn how to adapt to changes that occure? Racing is never perfect for offroad, must learn to adapt to changes, all forms of offroad racing requires the participant to adapt to changes (i.e. quad racing, Baja, Stadium Truck, Moto Cross, Even RALLY).

To understand thi there must be understanding from all sides. There will never be 100% agreeance for EVERYONE. Someone will always want something different and have a different opinion.


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## Tol Thomas (Feb 18, 2005)

I do not blame CV or HARC for its decision. I feel it really lies on the racers. Tracks should survive and be established prior to being introduced to a series. This elimiates the depandant nature of the series for the track to survive or exist. If racers frequent the track already there would be no worries about the facility and they could bring other racers to their track. My opinion is that the HARC club atmosphere should be that a CLUB that does not run on a set schedule. The HARC SERIES is a merger between a club and a racing series. One does not revolve around the other. Even if there wasn't a club or group of racers, the series could be established by the tracks themselves for the schedule. But it is easier fo the tracks to allow HARC to do this for them. I have seen way too many tracks come and go. Some came due to clubs and the same tracks left due to the club (club stopped, track shut down). I have seen tracks come and go for all types of reasons, insurance, lack of attendance (MAIN REASON AND ONLY REASON FOR ANY TRACK TO CLOSE), and some to close for NO obvious reason (HOUSTON RC with 75+ attendance Wednesday races and 125+ Saturday attendance races EVERY WEEK). Then there are those who survived without any push for any racing, M&M the only TRACK that does ot rely on the TRACK to survive. WE as racers need to be the ones who decides the fate of tracks, not the attendance in a racing series (is M&M part of the series?). Racers bring racers, and Hobby shops bring new attendance. Then it is the RACERS once again who help teach new people our hobby and keep them participating. Clubs like HARC makes it easy for everyone to be in continuity when it come to racing at different locations. It shouldn't be the CLUB that makes or breaks anyone or anything, it always comes down to the RACERS.

I will end with this:
Why are you attending races?
1) to play and have fun (many call this bashing but it is really just having fun)
2) hang out with good people friends
3) Compete in a racing atmosphere


1) To have fun, it doesn't matter what the track looks or drives like, having fun on a mount of dirt is still having fun

2) Hanging out with friends, well obvious your not there to race or play, just hang out, like having a Bar-B-Q

3) Racing is learning to navigate the track the fastest. No other form of offroad racing has perfect surfaces to race on (i.e. quad, moto-cross, baja, mickey thompson, etc...). The best is still the one who adapts the fastest to the changes.


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## Gary (May 21, 2004)

Sounds like the Mission Statement of the Biff Racing Team Tol!


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## team420! (Apr 30, 2010)

My 2 cents...CV has done a wonderful job with HARC. He does it for the love of the game. It's purpose is to grow the hobby and unite the racers in the Houston area. That he has done with great success. Getting competing buisnesses to work together and support one another is something very few can accomplish. Especially when it's on a voluntary basis! 

From a racers stand point, the track at Ultimate sucks. The track surface sucks, the hobby shop sucks, and the location sucks! You can sugar coat a turd any way you want, but your still eatin ****. For those racers who choose to boycott HARC racing, well, you'll be back. It may suck for you that your local track got omitted, but if you you truely love the hobby, you'll race where the masses are. If the tables were turned and Mikes got pushed to the curb it would **** me off because I live closer to that track than any other. But guess what, I'd be haulin my *** to next location because I love this hobby. Let Ultimate get there **** together or fold but don't boycott the hobby that you love. If you truely enjoy racing, I'll see you ALL at the next event.


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## jep527 (Jun 19, 2009)

ultimate never had a hobby shop, vertigo did and it was ran good. the track surface is not bad it is offroad. your setup probally sucks because you run on a hard packed clay that is like driving onroad. cv you have done a great job and it is up to you which track has harc.


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## tebone626 (Apr 25, 2010)

why cant we vote on what tracks we want to race during the harc season. we vote on new rules and changes at the end of there year. this would also be something that we could vote on. CV your doing a great job. i hate that your under all this stress, and i wouldnt want to wish it on anybody. if we vote on it, it would make your job some what easier.


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## jep527 (Jun 19, 2009)

hey jason how you like that mugen?


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## tebone626 (Apr 25, 2010)

love it, got to get it set up now.


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## team420! (Apr 30, 2010)

jep527 said:


> ultimate never had a hobby shop, vertigo did and it was ran good. the track surface is not bad it is offroad. your setup probally sucks because you run on a hard packed clay that is like driving onroad. cv you have done a great job and it is up to you which track has harc.


Thanks for clarifing that for me. You forgot to mention my driving skills suck too. At least on a rocky, powdery, off-road cow pasture. Lol. :headknock


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## Merdith (Sep 20, 2009)

*Onroad*



jep527 said:


> ultimate never had a hobby shop, vertigo did and it was ran good. the track surface is not bad it is offroad. your setup probally sucks because you run on a hard packed clay that is like driving onroad. cv you have done a great job and it is up to you which track has harc.


That's funny....


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## RevoUsa (Jan 20, 2011)

Since the decesion is all based off of the number or RACERS that didn't support the event at that track, wouldn't it be good to just post the list of races that all tracks have had to see the numbers? To put this back on the racers that didn't show up ? And that are raising the most fuss ?


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## tarpon140 (Apr 5, 2006)

WOW! All I know is that it takes an incredible amount of effort to keep this hobby going, especially for the track owners. It's non-stop maintenance and you will never make everyone happy. Someone's not going to like the dirt or the stand or the director, or the lighting............. Not to mention every dollar made is put back in the track. I applaud CV for his work keeping the HARC races going as well as the hard work the local tracks put in. This too is a headache I wouldn't want.


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## troytyro (Feb 3, 2009)

been out of the loop for a while, but wow!
all i can say , CV has done a above, and beyond job on running the HARC series.


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## racin_redneck (Jun 2, 2009)

Likes to play with TOY cars when and where I feel like it. 

In the words of the late Heath Ledger...."Why so serious?"

Anyone that wants to do something different or can make something better somehow someway, quit writing about it on the Net, and go do it. 

As another older and wiser man told me not too long ago, "Its not as important what you put on the track as it is whats in the cooler and on the pit and who you are sharing it with"


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## Jasoncb (Jun 25, 2010)

...


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## Jasoncb (Jun 25, 2010)

I was looking forward to having 4 tracks next year, but I accept and support any decision made by Courtney. You have done a wonderful job. Just wanted to post some interesting numbers!

HARC numbers for the year!

Total entries so far:
Mikes - 246
Vertigo - 236
River - 173

Vertigo pulled nearly the amount of entries that Mikes pulls and were the only track to increase entries between 2 particular rounds.

Mikes:
round 3 - 109
round 6 - 71 (35% decline from round 3)
round 9 - 66 (7% decline from round 6)

Vertigo:
round 1 - 86
round 4 - 93 (7% increase from round 1)
round 7 - 57 (38% decline from round 4) Hottest month

River:
round 2 - 74
round 5 - 53 (28% decline from round 2)
round 8 - 46 (13% decline from round 5) also one of the hottest months


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## tebone626 (Apr 25, 2010)

interesting. guess it was something else, and not the numbers.


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## jbranham50 (Jun 16, 2009)

Jason, sorry about that beat down the Texans put on your Steelhers/Big Ben Sunday................nah not really. ; )


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## Jasoncb (Jun 25, 2010)

jbranham50 said:


> Jason, sorry about that beat down the Texans put on your Steelhers/Big Ben Sunday................nah not really. ; )


Yea... I was at the game. Not a beat down, but Oline sucks with 2nd and 3rd stringers. Im sure we will see you guys again in January. Pretty sad that texans fans allowed half the stadium to be filled with steeler fans.

I wish i knew what it was like to have such a sorry team that has absolutely been horrible since its exsistance and finally win a big game.. Lmao!! J/k..... No but seriously!


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## katjim00 (Jan 8, 2009)

Jasoncb said:


> Pretty sad that texans fans allowed half the stadium to be filled with steeler fans.


You know I was thinking about that on sunday. Then I realized a lot of those cities are like mexico meaning all thier people leave to go find work elsewhere. I guess thats how so many ended up here. LOL...we need a bigger fence all around Texas hahahahahaha


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## jbranham50 (Jun 16, 2009)

Jasoncb said:


> Yea... I was at the game. Not a beat down, but Oline sucks with 2nd and 3rd stringers. Im sure we will see you guys again in January. Pretty sad that texans fans allowed half the stadium to be filled with steeler fans.
> 
> I wish i knew what it was like to have such a sorry team that has absolutely been horrible since its exsistance and finally win a big game.. Lmao!! J/k..... No but seriously!


Ooooooo nice one.... Say how did Ben look in his new boot?


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## JANKEII (Feb 2, 2006)

Good one


katjim00 said:


> You know I was thinking about that on sunday. Then I realized a lot of those cities are like mexico meaning all thier people leave to go find work elsewhere. I guess thats how so many ended up here. LOL...we need a bigger fence all around Texas hahahahahaha


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## Jasoncb (Jun 25, 2010)

katjim00 said:


> You know I was thinking about that on sunday. Then I realized a lot of those cities are like mexico meaning all thier people leave to go find work elsewhere. I guess thats how so many ended up here. LOL...we need a bigger fence all around Texas hahahahahaha


Lmao....


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## Jasoncb (Jun 25, 2010)

jbranham50 said:


> Ooooooo nice one.... Say how did Ben look in his new boot?


Looked just as good as last year when he was wearing it in the post season. Lol


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## mmorrow (Jan 18, 2009)

I heard that Harrison broke his face.


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## Jasoncb (Jun 25, 2010)

At least ben will play this week.. Andre johnson will be out a couple of weeks with a broken vagi..... (cant say it on here)

This is what the texans look like at the end of the season!


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## Gary (May 21, 2004)

Jasoncb said:


> At least ben will play this week.. Andre johnson will be out a couple of weeks with a broken vagi..... (cant say it on here)
> 
> This is what the texans look like at the end of the season!


That's over the top dude.


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## Tablenapkin (Sep 3, 2011)

Dont worry i was at the Super Bowl last year and watched the Steelers choke.


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## insaneracin2003 (Feb 22, 2006)

LMAO!!!!! at all the above!!!


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## Merdith (Sep 20, 2009)

*haha*

If you are into radio controlled cars, trucks, boats, helicopters, planes, trains or tanks, this is the place.


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