# I never would have guessed



## fishinguy (Aug 5, 2004)

I never would have guessed how challenging this photography stuff is. I am reading everything I can get my hands on and prcaticing on mostly indoor photos and I am still not getting the quality that I want. I will try and post some of my pistures that I am taking and see if you guys can help. I have an idea in my head buyt I just can't make it come out the way that I want. I htink I have taken 1 picture with the new camera that is impressive and I can not even replicate that one. I'm guessing it will take a couple months of practce before I can even become some what satisfied with my pictures. I also think that you guys set the bar pretty high when it comes to quality photos. Anyway I think I am hooked on this stuff now if I can just get good at it.


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## huntinguy (Aug 22, 2005)

what kinda camera do you have bud? I've been kinda the same way albeit haven't devoted much time to study lately. 

I'd love to take a class or spend some time with someone that knows what they are doin.


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## fishinguy (Aug 5, 2004)

Camera
Cannon Rebel XT


Lenses
EFS 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

EF 75-300mm f/4-5.6

I am thinking about maybe taking a class or trying to meet up with some other people that know what they are doing. The main pictures I have been taking lately are portraits. I am getting a little better everytime I practice but I still need alot of improvement.


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## Pocketfisherman (May 30, 2005)

Are you trying to take the portraits with existing light, or using a flash? If a flash, is it the one on the camera, or an external add on flash? Lastly, which of the two lenses are you using mostly? Final question, what particulary do you not like about the shots you've taken: Sharpness, color/contrast, background blur, too dark/light, ......?


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## fishinguy (Aug 5, 2004)

I have been trying all differant ways to take the pictures. With falsh without flash and all differant settings. I have strated to use only manual focus and that has helped. I only have the flash that is stock on the camera. I think I will buy an external one though. 

My main problem has been the pictures are either too dark blurry or have too much grain. With these pictures the colors are not as nice as I want.

Or they are too bright the background is too focused. The colors look good here though so long as they are not over exposed.


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## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

photography is an art form, and like all art, it often takes years for the artist to perfect his skill --- especially in the area of "composition." taking pictures is easy. learning to take high quality photographs that people want to look at for more than three seconds can take years of practice.


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## fishinguy (Aug 5, 2004)

I never gave photographers as much creadit as they deserve.


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## grayfish (Jul 31, 2005)

I would suggest that you post some of your pictures to photobucket or Flikr or some other service and link them here. Explain what you do not like or what you wish to achive in the shot. I bet the photographers here will take a look, peruse the exif information and offers suggestions if you ask.


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## Koru (Sep 25, 2006)

fishingguy give yourself some time. it took me ages to get to grips with my little point and shoot and i'm still learning things. stepping up to a 'better' camera is going to take me months if not years to learn.

grayfish's idea is good. maybe just post a couple of photos first and learn what needs to be improved and how to do it before posting more...? 

rosesm


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## Pocketfisherman (May 30, 2005)

It sounds like you might be relying on the cameras automatic modes, which is not what you want to do for good shots with flash. When you shoot with flash, you are basically making two different exposures. The Flash Compensation will determine the exposure for the foreground image. The Camera settings for ISO, aperature, and shutter speed will determine how bright the background appears. If you want a visible background, use a higher ISO speed and as slow of a shutter speed you can use in manual mode that you don't blur the subject in the foreground. Remember, the reciprocal rule, if you use an 85mm focal length lens, then you don't want a shutter speed any slower than 1/85 to eliminate hand shake blur. For a staionary subject, 1/125-1/250 (or the highest high speed sync your camera supports) will insure sharpness of the foreground subject. If you want to get a nice background blur, use the lowest number aperature setting you can for your lens. This is why lenses with F1.2-2.8 work so nicely for portraits, they give that nice bokeh blur when shot wide open. If you want the background darker, lower the ISO setting, higher ISO will make the foreground appear brighter, but at the expense of more grain, especially in the darker shadows. All these settings interact, so use the histogram display on your camera to make certain your getting a good exposure. Here's the logic I'll use for a setup:

Set the camera on aperature priority mode and flash to TTL/ETTL, whichever your camera supports. Be aware the on camera flash is only good for a subject about 5-15 feet from the camera.

Set the Aperature setting wide open for the lens I'm using, IE lowest F stop number it will take.

Set ISO to 400, a good all around number where noise grain is not too bad. Think of ISO as a light amplifier. Turn it up and you amplify the effect of the available light (image), but you also amplify the background noise (grain)

Set flash compensation at 0

Take a shot and look at the histogram. If your LCD display can be set to show clipping, enable it. You don't care too much about clipping in shadows, but you want to avoid or minimize clipping of the bright highlight areas of your subject (a little is OK). If you've got clipping, adjust your flash compensation down 1/2 - 1 stop and try again. If you want the background to be less significant and darker, turn the ISO adjustment lower, go higher (with mnore grain) if you want the background brighter.

One last thing, if your camera has ISO shift or ISO safety functions, turn it off so the camera does not decide to bump up ISO automatically and make the pictures grainy.

If you want the background to not blur, but be in focus, you make the aperature setting higher. But, this reduces the light getting to the sensor, and eventually it will exceed what the flash can comensate for and the images will start getting darker as you increase the aperature number. To compensate, the camera will lengthen the shutter speed and eventually you'll get blure from handshake if you exceed the reciprocal rule. It's basically a three handed juggling act.

When shooting portrait like stuff, it really helps if your camera will support direct connection of a laptop via the USB ports. I know most Canon DSLRs will do this. That way you can see the captured image realtime and adjust accordingly because the LCD screens on DSLRs are basically useless for judging grain and sharpness.

Now here's where things get weird with Canon's ETTL flash mode. ETTL takes into account the autofocus point selected when it determines flash exposure, and weights the exposure for that point, also taking into account the distance to that point. Let's say your taking a picture of a bride and groom. You take a shot of the couple focusing on the brides white dress, adjust the camera for a good shot, and take it. Now you take another shot this time focusing on the Grooms black tux, and the exposure comes out totally different. This is because ETTL looks at the autofocus point you picked, and optimizes for that point. One was black, the other white, two very different looking images because the camera varied the flash power for each in different amounts. Therefore, you'll find you get much better results if you do one of these two things: Disable ETTL flash mode and use TTL which averages the entire scene exposure, or, be very carefule in consitently selecting your autofocus points in ETTL.


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## fishinguy (Aug 5, 2004)

wow that is very in formative. This is exactly the info I was looking for. I opend the photobucket account so tonight when I am messing with the camera I will get some photos on here.

I was already staying away from the auto modes. I was using the apature priority mode and the m mode mostly. That is where the better pictures I ahve take have been taken in. Really I think I have taken pictures with just about every setting on the camera not every xombination but every point on the dial and I have messed with the iso settings too. I just started messing with the flash stuff the other night. I might just have to get out my lapto and use your suggestion there. I think it will help me later on as well so I can see a better view of the picture as I make adjustments.

I'll post the pics up tonight. I am sure that with yall helping me I'll be taking great photos in no time.


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## RustyBrown (May 29, 2004)

I remember when I thought I was done when I bought my dSLR. Frustration is part of the learning curve and if you have a true interest the best advise I can give you is to post your images often here and as they were shot. This enables us to see what your camera settings were.

As grayfish said I'm sure you'll get plenty of input.


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## fishinguy (Aug 5, 2004)

I am going to take quite few tonight and mayybe I can start getting somwhere. I always thought the camera did most of the work but boy I was wrong.


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## RustyBrown (May 29, 2004)

Wait until you find out what you don't know you don't know...:rotfl:


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## MT Stringer (May 21, 2004)

Fishinguy, if you haven't already, go to and join the Canon Photo Forum. It is a global forum with folks from all over the world with tons of experience to share. Sometimes the feedback might seem harsh, but it will make you a better photographer.

But mainly, there are a lot of folks just like yourself that have all sorts of questions about cameras, flash setting..."which is the best flash for me?"...that kind of stuff. You could spend many hours just reading the threads.

Also, there is a big classified section. I have bought and sold numerous pieces of equipment off that classified section and all have been OK with no problems encountered. Just make sure you are buying something from the US to help avoid the hassle of overseas shipping and customs.

Here's the link:
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/

Oh, and by all means, keep on shooting.

Mike


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## fishinguy (Aug 5, 2004)

I am going to join right now. That you everyone for the information and support. I posted my first sets of pictures un der first set please let me know what you guys think I can do to make the pictures better.


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## richg99 (Aug 21, 2004)

Just a suggestion from another "learner".. you might want to take a series of pictures of the same subject, in the same lighting. 

Change the settings both above and below ( faster shutter/slower shutter...Larger aperture/smaller aperture).. whatever settings you thought was correct in the first place. 

That way, when you look at the results, you will see what the specific changes did to your original shot. regards, Rich


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## my3peas (Jan 9, 2007)

Another suggestion...get the book Understanding Exposure by Bryan Peterson. It's awesome and shows you examples. 

And I totally agree that you should try and meet up with a few photogs in your area. I'm constantly learning and inspired by my photog friends!


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