# an open letter from the enforcement side to all of us



## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

Please be respectful in your replies if you decide to make one.

==================================

2Coolers:
This is a plea for you to help us rather than hate us. This is not meant to provoke anyone. But we feel like it is best to speak plainly and as honest as we can. We are serious about wanting to build some bridges with you and to clear up some misconceptions, and seek your help. We approached Monty about this idea, and he welcomed it and supported it and agrees something needs to be done. We have already met many of you on the water, and have positive interactions and have built some great working relationships with you. 

There are 2 NOAA Special Agents (and a Boss) in the Galveston, TX office. We have a very broad enforcement mission only part of which includes recreational enforcement. Fact is, we spend about 90% of our time enforcing commercial violations. We are Special Agents and have full authority to arrest, inspect, seize, bear firearms, serve warrants and subpoenas, etc.. Matt and I have one pet-peeve, Lying. We are pretty easy- going except when someone lies to us while on the job. We have and use a NOAA OLE patrol boat which is based in Galveston, TX. Because there are so few of us, we have an agreement with the USCG and TPW to enforce some of the federal regulations while they are conducting their normal jobs. NOAA OLE trains the USCG and TPW to perform these tasks. 

We realize the short season has a huge economic impact on the charter industry, and it takes away what people traditionally like to fish for year round. You are used to being able to do this year round, we get that. However, as Texans, you should be and probably are very proud of your heritage and your ability to manage fish and game such as the red fish, and world class deer hunting ranches and leases. Try to consider that the red snapper fishery in the Gulf of Mexico is much the same. Instead of complaining that they can't be caught year round, let's come to the agreement that while they are getting a break from fishing pressure, they obviously are having time to rebuild and repopulate at an unprecedented rate, virtually guaranteeing a world class fishery that will be around for many years to come. One unique thing about this area is that the weather allows you to fish year round. Remember that in many parts of the world, fishing is out of the question due to cold and snow. Anywhere there is a fishery, there will always need to be size limits and season closures in order to ensure the longevity of the fish. Think of the way in which people work on cultivate their deer leases all year long so they can harvest the best deer on the property. Just because the deer are there all year does not mean that you can harvest them year round. I truly believe that snapper are the same, and someday in the near future, the season can return to a much better situation than it is today, and when it does, the fishing will be better than it has ever been. So let's all work together to continue to help sustain and improve the fishery. They are your fish, they are my fish, they are your client's fish. Let's keep people from taking them when they are not supposed to. If you are one of those who are taking them, please stop before we have to become involved. If you are already one who respects the rules, please help us convince others to do the same. What we promise to give you in return is to always do our best to respond to your questions, and to reports of people who are not playing by the same rules you are being asked to. We also promise to give regular feedback on what cases have been made (to the level we are allowed to). We cannot give out boat names and list people by name, but we can tell you that a significant stop was made, and what the result was. If you would like, we could even have our own thread, or a way to contact us directly through a confidential email.

We have a NOAA HOTLINE to report fishery violations, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week anywhere in the US and Caribbean. This line is answered by a live person. The caller can remain anonymous if they choose to do so. However, it always helps if we can call you back.

The reason we reached out to you is to build a relationship among recreational fishermen and enforcement. Matt and I are seasoned, intelligent, and professional agents. We are not thugs who hate recreational fishermen. Quite the opposite is true. We both took this job to help preserve and sustain the fishery for future fishermen. That being said, we don't make the law, we just enforce it. We do have a job to do, and it involves determining if federal regulations were violated. Do you think a violator is just going to say "you got me"? Come on! We would never find the real violators if we were that easy. We are not out looking for ways to catch you doing something wrong; we are way too busy for that. We are only looking for those that are blatantly/knowingly/intentionally violating the law and trying to hide it. For example, a non-permitted boat who takes out a paid charter trip (even advertises it), but tells the paying customers to say "we are only friends". If the recreational fishermen don't stop these people, enforcement will. 

Our goal is for the recreational fishermen to police themselves so that we don't become involved. We would rather be fishing than documenting a case against someone. So far, this has not occurred, therefore Matt and I have been checking boats for federal violations. If a recreational fisherman is upset at the federal regulation, he/she should focus their efforts at having the law changed, not continuing to violate the law. For example, we know for a fact that there aren't many productive state spots on this part of the coast. I'm sure there are a few, but they are well kept secrets known only to a few. 'All' the boats catching limits of sow snapper are NOT catching them in State waters. Hey, if there were more Reefs inside State waters with nice snapper on them, we would all be happier. Instead of working on this issue, some 2coolers constantly think/post of ways to get their GPS to show they were actually in State waters when in fact they were in Federal waters (Closed Season). Enforcement is not the problem, 'violators' are. 

In regards to the GPS units: While we clearly have the authority to seize the units (as well as fish, and other gear), we would never seize the unit just to 'prove a point' or 'promote thuggery'. When we seize anything, we use professional judgment. If we have no reason to believe you have violated the law, we would not seize the unit. Just don't put us in a situation where we have no other choice. Even worse, if we have a boat has extreme multiple violations the last step is to seize and forfeit the entire boat in order to stop the violations, and or prosecute someone in the Federal criminal system, where people go to real jails with real criminals. So let's not go there. We would hope things would never have to go that far. Believe us, we have many things we would rather be doing than the time and paperwork it would cost to go through this process. But we will do what we have to enforce the law and protect your resource. Sometimes fines mean nothing to people, regardless of the amount. Then, and only then do we have to use sharpest tools in our toolbox. We would much rather people just obey the law and encourage others to do the same. 

Many have said that we are only after recreational boats, and are ignoring the commercial sector. This is not true, in fact quite the opposite. To show you that most of our work involves the commercial fishery, here are cases from myself and Matt this past year: Keep in mind that the fines issued may not always seem like enough, but they are tailored to fit the situation and the value of the resource taken. In many cases the catch was seized in addition to the fines below. 

*Commercial IFQ Vessel* IFQ violations in Beaumont. *$4,000 fine issued 03/09*
*Commercial IFQ Buyer* IFQ violations in Beaumont*,$4,000 fine issued 3/09.*
*Commercial IFQ Vessel* IFQ Violations in Galveston. *$30,000 fine 3/09*
*Commercial IFQ Buyer* IFQ *$30,000 fine issued 3/09*
*Shrimp Vessel* Failure to take an observer *$30,000 fine issued 3/09*
*Commercial IFQ Vessel* Galveston, failure to take observer *$10,000 fine issued 1/09*
*Charter Vessel * charter vessel without a permit. *fine Pending.* 
*Shrimp Vessel* Illegal TED flap extensions. *$500 SS Paid in 11/08.*
*Shrimp vessel* Illegal TED flap extensions. *$500 SS Paid 10/08*
*Commercial IFQ Vessel* for anchoring within the Flower Gardens. *fine Pending*.
*Recreational Vessel* with 22 Red Snapper fillets. *$4,000 issued 01/09.*
*Shrimp Vessel* fishing in closed waters,TED violations.*$25K fine 12/08.*
*Shrimp Vessel * TEDS violations *$1000 summary settlement* *paid 11/08*.
*Shrimp Vessel * TEDS violations. *$500* *summary settlement* * paid 10/08*.
*Shrimp Vessel* TEDS case, * $500* *SS not paid, convert to fine 4/09*. 
*Charter Vessel* Charter w/o permits, *fine Pending. *
*Charter Vessel* Charter w/o permits *fine Pending. *
*Shrimp Vessel* TEDS case, * $2000 summary settlement* *paid 10/08*.
*Commercial Importer* in Houston, TX false documents to ship live turtle- *Pending.*
*Commercial IFQ Vessel*-12,000 pounds illegal red snapper- *$55,000 fine, 90 day permit * sanction.
*Shrimp Vessel*- Fail to take and observer- *$9000 fine and 18 day permit sanction.*
*Commercial Dealer*- Purchase $1M of fish without a dealer permit- *$100,000 fine*
*Charter Vessel*- Freeport, with 26 red snapper fillets and closed season- *fine pending*
*Commercial IFQ vessel*- Sell IFQ red snapper to restaurants - *fine pending*

*Summary:* 
Matt and I are the two NOAA Special Agents stationed in Galveston, TX. We are professional and treat everyone with the respect they deserve. We are NOT, as a commercial fishermen told me last week "issuing out fishermen euthanasia' and we are not, as a 2Cooler has stated today "viewing you as the enemy and only out to issue you a violation". We are not making the laws, only enforcing them. Oh, and we do not have a hidden agenda nor have we been instructed by NOAA to concentrate on the recreational sector. We are good at our jobs and focus our attention where the violators are. We are in fact, fishermen just like you. We want all of you to enjoy all the 'legal' fishing you can stand (even in State Waters). Please work with us and not against us. Please concentrate on changing the laws, not ways to get away with violating it. Rather than trying to make your best informed guess at how to interpret the law on say "What constitutes a charter vs. friends sharing fuel," just ask us. That is what we are here for. 

We are public servants and work for you. We welcome your suggestions on ways to improve 'enforcement'. Our office number is 409-770-0812. We are located at 601 Rosenberg St., Room 309 Galveston, TX 77553. If you would like us to have a "Thread" on 2cool, just let Monty know. We will do whatever we can to be more accessible to you. 

Thank you,
Charles and Matt


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## chuck richey (May 22, 2004)

Great letter. I look forward to meeting yall on the water. Talked to a freind that was stopped by yall the other day. He was very impressed with how everything was handled and how polite they were treated.


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## Argo (May 21, 2004)

Good post. I support you guys being out there. I always stick to my limits and have no issure releasing snapper in a closed season. I think my only complaint is the fact that there are alot of vessels that get caught time and time again and still are out there fishing. Why not seize the boat after they fail to pay and learn from prior fines/issues with vollowing the laws, this goes for commercial, charter and recreational boats........?


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## Angler 1 (Apr 27, 2005)

I think a Fourm called "ASK THE LAW OF THE WATER " would be pretty cool. 2coolers could ask questions and get anwsers from the NOAA or TP&W. I am sure there a plenty on here that have questions and would be neat to get the right anwsers. Great letter as I have met both of you a couple of times. Florida Sportsman has a fourm "Ask The Law" which is very helpful. http://outdoorsbest.zeroforum.com/zeromain?id=1

Eugene


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## jig (Aug 2, 2005)

Great comment, nothing to add. Look forward to meeting you on the water some day.

I do have a question about a specific reference you made above. You have a commercial IFQ violation for 12, 000 lbs of illegal snapper. According to another reference, that is about 7% of the entire 2008 recreation fisherman's catch. From one boat, and one illegal haul with one bust. So my question is: why are these gross violations only resulting in 90 days permit sanctions?!

I know you don't make the laws or dole out the punishment, but it is exactly this kind of thing that makes the recreational fishermen so angry about the rules. *What can we do to voice our displeasure with allowing these outlaws to continue to fish?* We would appreciate any insite you could give us as officers of the law into making our efforts more effective at getting something done about this situation.

Thanks.


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## bostonwhaler (Aug 24, 2006)

ok so questions
when does snow stop someone from fishing?
if ALL FISHERYS need to be managed then why arent dolphin, wahoo, blackfin ....etc?
why do rec's have to enforce the laws when it yall's job?
just trying not to be negative


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## Hammerhead (Jun 16, 2004)

A Job Well Done on writing the open letter!...and ditto on what jig had to say.
Thanks


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## Bill Fisher (Apr 12, 2006)

"What constitutes a charter vs. friends sharing fuel," 

if y'all should ever open a Q & A thread here on 2Cool, that question would be a good one to begin with 

lotta debate here among 2Coolers as to how far 'fuel sharing' can go........... 

I say my guests can pay for all the fuel on a given trip aboard my boat with no contribution from me as a recreational fisherman without it being considered a charter (the only permit in my name being the HMS reacreational permit issued to my boat)

i always pay my equal share of the fuel expense with guests that have volunteered to share in the trip's expense, but i would like to know if my guests offer to pay the entire fuel expense*, can i accept without breaking the law?

* "guests offer to pay the entire fuel expense" [LOL!,,, (as if THAT'd ever happen!) :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:]


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## Guest (Apr 18, 2009)

*Your Efforts Are Appreciated*

Charles and Matt,

Having spent a few years in law enforcement I understand the challenges that you and your LEO brethren face. I believe most on this board do appreciate what you do, and know you didn't go into this profession because of the great pay, easy hours, etc. I agree with Angler 1 that we could all benefit from having qualified resources like you guys, available on this website, to address our questions on regulations that are sometimes both controversial and confusing. I look forward to meeting you both and welcome to 2Cool.

Bill Bahr


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## Steve Cange (Apr 2, 2009)

*Thanks for what u do*

Whatever they pay u guys, it ain't enough for the huge area u cover and the challenges u face. Smart move getting on this site - building credibilty and developing relationships here will put a lot more eyes on the water to help u. Im new to this site, but its obvious that most folks here love this sport and want to protect the resource just as much as u guys. I've put your names/phone number in my BB, and I wont hesitate to call if I come across something out there that isn't right. Good luck and l too hope to meet u guys when this weather calms down ! Steve


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## Fishdaze (Nov 16, 2004)

Angler 1 said:


> I think a Fourm called "ASK THE LAW OF THE WATER " would be pretty cool. 2coolers could ask questions and get anwsers from the NOAA or TP&W. I am sure there a plenty on here that have questions and would be neat to get the right anwsers. Great letter as I have met both of you a couple of times. Florida Sportsman has a fourm "Ask The Law" which is very helpful. http://outdoorsbest.zeroforum.com/zeromain?id=1
> 
> Eugene


That would be a great to have here on 2cool.


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## Snagged (May 21, 2004)

I'll go along with Angler1 as to the fourm.

Welcome aboard.


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## shanker (Jan 15, 2006)

thats very well written...I do have a question though?

Does your department have any job openings?


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## Swells (Nov 27, 2007)

Snagged said:


> I'll go along with Angler1 as to the fourm.
> 
> Welcome aboard.


Me too.


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## STxFisherman (Jan 15, 2006)

Thanks for the great dialogue. 

The open forum that you are creating could turn out to have a very positive outcome.


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## Hotrod (Oct 11, 2006)

Argo said:


> Good post. I support you guys being out there. I always stick to my limits and have no issure releasing snapper in a closed season. I think my only complaint is the fact that there are alot of vessels that get caught time and time again and still are out there fishing. Why not seize the boat after they fail to pay and learn from prior fines/issues with vollowing the laws, this goes for commercial, charter and recreational boats........?


If the boat has a lien from a bank or finance company then most likely it can't be confiscated.


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## shanker (Jan 15, 2006)

Hotrod said:


> If the boat has a lien from a bank or finance company then most likely it can't be confiscated.


This is true, its the same with automobiles. The ranch my dad runs has a policy that if a smuggler (drugs or wet's) is caught on the ranch and damage is done to any fences, the ranch refuses to allow the law enforcement to tow the vehicle and the ranch auctions off the vehicles with the assistance of the sheriffs department.

They can only do this if there is no lein on the vehicle and as long as it is not stolen.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Chas and Matt

Great post. Now get those confidental informants working and you will not have time to do anything but issue citations and put people in jail. I feel shure you are working on that. Just being a "traffic cop" trying to catch violators coming and going is tough and as you know you miss most of them. Keep up the great work.

Charlie


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## TimW Texas (Apr 15, 2009)

I think or know that this is great coming out of the state of Oregon as a ex commercial salmon fisherman that does not exist today from over fishing and a slew of other problems. Ask us today about hindsight you think we would do something different today of course we would. It seems to me that you have a opportunity here to correct a problem first and learning from failed fisheries. It is very important to be united and take a stand for the red snapper to guarantee their success now and for the future. I feel in Oregon we planted the seed and the next day we harvested it with no results but ghost towns of a fishing industry


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## Bait Chef (Aug 1, 2008)

Good letter. Thanks for making the effort to reach out. I look forward to seeing more on this site to help open dialog between recs and enforcement and I look forward to seeing you on the water one day.


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## mjz (Jan 11, 2008)

Bill Fisher said:


> "What constitutes a charter vs. friends sharing fuel,"
> 
> if y'all should ever open a Q & A thread here on 2Cool, that question would be a good one to begin with
> 
> ...


http://2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/showthread.php?p=1604963#post1604963

Short answer, yes, you can accept it. You cannot "charge" them a fee of any kind (profit) for taking them, but they most certainly can pay for bait/ice/fuel.

Just finished Sea Academy Friday, and the instructor covered this point...as it will be 4-6 weeks before I get my license in the mail, I can't advertise myself as a guide or accept payment for a trip. The "customers" can pay for everything, but I can't take any money from them (including a "tip").


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## Joester (May 22, 2008)

*Commercial Fisherman....*

Im an offshore production personell. Numerous times over the last 25 years in the industry we have flown in on platforms to do general work. Couple of miles out from these platforms, there will be a Red Snapper trail of dead fish indicating that a "snapper boat" is on location. I have wanted to take pics for proof of this kind of ignorrance and are curious as to how we can help to put a stop to this kind of act? Most of the fish caught with todays "Snapper Boats" are reeled up with hydraulic / electric winches containing 30 or so hooks, so fast the fish internals come to the outside therefore killing the fish. I have over the last couple of years, started carrying a digital camera and have posted pics of folks trashing our waters but have yet to be lucky enough to capture pics of the dreaded "Snapper Boats" with "Trails"... And yes, I stick to my limits and do not and will not violate the laws of the waters!



Mont said:


> Please be respectful in your replies if you decide to make one.
> 
> ==================================
> 
> ...


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## fender bender (Mar 31, 2006)

Good post,Look forward to meeting you on the water some day.Also what jig said.


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## FISHINPOC (Jun 19, 2006)

> Couple of miles out from these platforms, there will be a Red Snapper trail of dead fish indicating that a "snapper boat" is on location. I have wanted to take pics for proof of this kind of ignorrance and are curious as to how we can help to put a stop to this kind of act? Most of the fish caught with todays "Snapper Boats" are reeled up with hydraulic / electric winches containing 30 or so hooks, so fast the fish internals come to the outside therefore killing the fish. I have over the last couple of years, started carrying a digital camera and have posted pics of folks trashing our waters but have yet to be lucky enough to capture pics of the dreaded "Snapper Boats" with "Trails"... And yes, I stick to my limits and do not and will not violate the laws of the waters!


I've followed these pink trails of death and what I've found is a shrimp boat who has culled their catch and thrown the dead short snapper overboard. It's perfectly legal, and perfectly sickening.


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## ML56 (Dec 30, 2008)

*Great Idea*

Charles,Matt and unnamed"Boss"
Great idea to do a direct appeal to the rec. fishing side of the issue.I think you will find many friends here, who do have a common intrest in promoting the snapper fisheries. Many have already volunteered donations and time to do just that, with the 2cool condo project and other projects. I would like for Mont to create the mentioned ask the enforcers forum, and would also like seeing a regular section with the latest violations posted just as you did in your open letter.It shows that all sides are being watched and dealt with appropriately.Hats off to you, and thanks-Mike


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## sweenyite (Feb 22, 2009)

Angler 1 said:


> I think a Fourm called "ASK THE LAW OF THE WATER " would be pretty cool. 2coolers could ask questions and get anwsers from the NOAA or TP&W. I am sure there a plenty on here that have questions and would be neat to get the right anwsers. Great letter as I have met both of you a couple of times. Florida Sportsman has a fourm "Ask The Law" which is very helpful. http://outdoorsbest.zeroforum.com/zeromain?id=1
> 
> Eugene


I agree.


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## Instigator (Jul 6, 2004)

Thanks for the olive branch guys. Having names and communication turns you into people instead of just agents of the evil empire. That should stifle the hating and hopefully result in more helpful tips from our side. Please follow up with a regular posting of your efforts, answers to questions, adventure stories and the like. Since you're on the water whenever feasible maybe you could validate opinions voiced here on relative abundance of snapper and the appropriateness of current regulation. Of course, done in a way that wouldn't put you out of favor with upstream personnel.


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## bigkahuna (Aug 27, 2005)

Charles and Matt, Glad your out there helping to protect the sport we like so much. We're headed to Cerveza on Wednesday, have room for 2 more, PM if your interested, BTW we throw the ones with pointy noses back


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## Slightly Dangerous (May 21, 2004)

I too appreciate your willingness to actually "talk" with us horrible recreational fishermen. Most of us do not agree with the NMFS and their reign of terror and we all want to see the day when we get to actually have a chance at our share of finfish and not have everything go to the commercials. I do have an issue with your statement that we can fish year-around. Nothing is farther from the truth. Last year and this year have been absolutley horrible, not just during the winter but summer as well. If we measured the number of boatable days for the recs it would be in the neighborhood of less than 2 months for the entire year. You must remember that our 3 foot seas are usually far rougher than an 8-10 foot "swell" in the northeast. I've fished both places a lot and, if you can brave the cold, you will get a ton more fishing days up north than here.

I wish I could say I look forward to meeting you but during the current administration I am highly sceptical of anything that says "Federal" and, while I will certainly be civil and truthful, I will not welcome the intrusion. TPWD...no problem, those guys rock! NMFS, NOAA, FBI, CIA and every other organization with initials could learn from them.


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## Hotrod (Oct 11, 2006)

Slightly Dangerous said:


> I too appreciate your willingness to actually "talk" with us horrible recreational fishermen. Most of us do not agree with the NMFS and their reign of terror and we all want to see the day when we get to actually have a chance at our share of finfish and not have everything go to the commercials. I do have an issue with your statement that we can fish year-around. Nothing is farther from the truth. Last year and this year have been absolutley horrible, not just during the winter but summer as well. If we measured the number of boatable days for the recs it would be in the neighborhood of less than 2 months for the entire year. You must remember that our 3 foot seas are usually far rougher than an 8-10 foot "swell" in the northeast. I've fished both places a lot and, if you can brave the cold, you will get a ton more fishing days up north than here.
> 
> I wish I could say I look forward to meeting you but during the current administration I am highly sceptical of anything that says "Federal" and, while I will certainly be civil and truthful, I will not welcome the intrusion. TPWD...no problem, those guys rock! NMFS, NOAA, FBI, CIA and every other organization with initials could learn from them.


Ditto what he said!


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## Snagged (May 21, 2004)

Guys,
Maybe because I'm old I see these two as beat cops getting to know the neighborhood. They are doing a job and haven't done us harm.


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## Quint (Oct 20, 2006)

*At least they are trying*

Before we start throwing rocks, maybe we should al try and put ourselves and thier shoes and think about having thier job. At least they are trying to take the first step at trying to put at ease some of the stress that is out thier when it comes to them.


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## Slightly Dangerous (May 21, 2004)

Maybe before you start throwing stones at me for voicing an opinion you should consider that everyone from Obama on down is "just doing their job." I did not, and will not, say that they are bad guys and anyone would recognize that my statement is simply contrary to a small part of what they said. You can give them a break all you want but the hard-core offshore fishermen will immediately recognize that something is going on here. Have you ever heard of gaining rule by means of turning the good guys against each other? Oh right...I forgot that old cliche that if you are not doing anything wrong then you will not be hurt by the new rules. Red light cameras come to mind.


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## wacker (Mar 22, 2006)

Slightly Dangerous said:


> Maybe before you start throwing stones at me for voicing an opinion you should consider that everyone from Obama on down is "just doing their job." I did not, and will not, say that they are bad guys and anyone would recognize that my statement is simply contrary to a small part of what they said. You can give them a break all you want but the hard-core offshore fishermen will immediately recognize that something is going on here. Have you ever heard of gaining rule by means of turning the good guys against each other? Oh right...I forgot that old cliche that if you are not doing anything wrong then you will not be hurt by the new rules. Red light cameras come to mind.


Bro, now your gona have to keep a eye out for black heilos!:rotfl:


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## Quint (Oct 20, 2006)

*Opinion*

Everyone is entitled to thier own opinion. Nobody said that anyone was throwing rocks at you for voicing your opinion. If that is how you feel, well that how you feel nobody can change that. That doesn't mean that everyone has to agree with you. I'm not asking you to agree with me. What I'm saying is that he didn't have to post nothin'. He could have just kept doing his job and not tried to explain nothing to nobody. But atleast his trying to reach out a hand to keep you informed. No need to get so defensive.

Comments like that to me, are what got the reply post taken away from the Fishing Reports!


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## CajunBob (Feb 24, 2008)

All I can say is that You are welcome on my boat anytime. Like my good friend Jerry said.

"I too appreciate your willingness to actually "talk" with us horrible recreational fishermen. Most of us do not agree with the NMFS and their reign of terror and we all want to see the day when we get to actually have a chance at our share of finfish and not have everything go to the commercials. I do have an issue with your statement that we can fish year-around. Nothing is farther from the truth. Last year and this year have been absolutley horrible, not just during the winter but summer as well. If we measured the number of boatable days for the recs it would be in the neighborhood of less than 2 months for the entire year. You must remember that our 3 foot seas are usually far rougher than an 8-10 foot "swell" in the northeast. I've fished both places a lot and, if you can brave the cold, you will get a ton more fishing days up north than here.

I wish I could say I look forward to meeting you but during the current administration I am highly sceptical of anything that says "Federal" and, while I will certainly be civil and truthful, I will not welcome the intrusion. TPWD...no problem, those guys rock! NMFS, NOAA, FBI, CIA and every other organization with initials could learn from them. "


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## playinhooky (Dec 6, 2008)

Another government agency to board and inspect my boat, car, truck, property, not for probable cause, but probably 'cause there might be something ,possibly something quite obscure, overlooked, that I, you, we can be fined (aka taxed) for. I just don't get that warm fuzzy feeling that seems to be prevalent !


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## Swells (Nov 27, 2007)

playinhooky said:


> Another government agency to board and inspect my boat, car, truck, property, not for probable cause, but probably 'cause there might be something ,possibly something quite obscure, overlooked, that I, you, we can be fined (aka taxed) for. I just don't get that warm fuzzy feeling that seems to be prevalent !


There is a "dark side" to everything you know. While the nice fellows from NMFS said they wanted to share information and educate us, I think their ulterior motive is to learn how some of the recreationals poach fish. Trolling here is a pretty good start. Remember what Mont said to be very careful what you post here, right? He wasn't kidding.

Think about that for a minute, as it's really a game of cat and mouse, or "chicken of the sea" maybe. If I was a NMFS officer I'd troll here on this forum for the boats that consistently looked as if charter boats but claimed to be recreationals, or those boats that consistently brought in huge meat hauls and might have a problem with the limits. I bet they with they had such a nice Internet service for the boats from Mexico that illegally fish a bunch off Texas!

I have a lot of friends in the law enforcement business and hey, nice people who are funny as heck and will always drink a beer with you off hours, but they can read and see the pictures just fine and even though they're not supposed to use profiles, well, they do. It's their job! So don't give me a dang load about the job being under-paid, stressful, or so hard. They're paid to do what they do. I think they just wanted to put us on notice that they're watching. And I can play that game, as I have absolutely nothing to hide.


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## woody7 (May 28, 2004)

I have never had a bad experience with TP&W officers. They have all been straight forward and courteous. Thanks for the post, and keep the dialogue going on this forum.


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## Brassnadz (Jun 18, 2007)

Mont said:


> Please be respectful in your replies if you decide to make one.
> 
> ==================================
> 
> ...


Dont know how to multi quote. Mine are in bold italics.


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## MB (Mar 6, 2006)

*The Snapper Chronicles*

I'm so glad Mont allowed you to post what you did here. May be this will make a difference .....

When you guys shut down the commercials for violating ...... IE. ( confiscate their vessel and license ) and of corse sell there license to the highest bidder at auction ( Which will allow a 2 cooler to snap it up " No Pun Intended ) this will help stop the extinction of The Red Snapper Fish.

Please help us stop the small slap on the hand fines shown ( with few exceptions ). Then and only then will there be an equal fishing ground out in the Gulf for the Red Snapper Fish.

These guys ( The Commercials ) take more of the resource and waist more of the resource than all the recs. combined could ever take since they have NO FISHING SEASON. There are numerous you tube videos that expose the killing of under sized fish taking place in the gulf with ( NO LAW TO STOP THE KILLING OF THE UNDER SIZE FISH .... WHAT A WAIST ). There is a term used to describe this killing of under size fish which YOU KNOW is " By-catch " .

I see this as it is " INCOMPETENT ".:headknock

I'm sick of Government incompetence. ARN'T YOU?

Please help us force a reasonable fishing season on them. It should be the same as ours.... I'm sure the By-Catch numbers would go down and the resource would surely increase.

You guys have a tuff job enforcing laws which are created to help the very people that kill the most fish. We need a level fishing pond.

The people I fish with actually abide by the rules ( even if they suck ). I also think most of the 2 coolers do the same.

Thank You for the warning ...... I really do believe you guys have allot of honor in what you do, and I hope to see you out there.

*MB*


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## FishinFoolFaron (Feb 11, 2009)

I also would like to see a LEO thread here for questions and reports of violations.
I think most 2coolers are like me when I say I have no problem with law enforcement just with "law compliance" where you are detained until you prove your innocence.


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## peeker1966 (Jun 22, 2008)

guys,
thanks so much for posting this, this show's that you are here to do a job. to me the one's that think you are picking on them must be doing something wrong. we all know what is wrong and what is right and if you do not know the difference then you do not need to be fishing or anything else on the water bottomline.


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## peeker1966 (Jun 22, 2008)

thanks guys,

this right here means these guys are here to do a job and do it to the best of their ability. to the ones that think they are being picked on or whatever you want to call it they are obvisiouly doing something wrong if they have to question their own actions. once again thanks for the post.


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## lurepopper (Apr 25, 2007)

*red light cameras*

i know its off topic but this red light camera ******** is old. you, me and everyone else runs red lights but does that make it right? i dont like the cameras anymore than anyone else does but think about it, get a few tickets for running lights these people might think twice about their aggressive driving when it hits their pocketbooks.


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## lurepopper (Apr 25, 2007)

not that this relates to my last post but back in October i was hit head on by a drunk driver on 646. he had his door open, throwing up while driving, in my lane, hit me, the wife, and at the time 11 month old daughter. driving is dangerous! before you go complaining about being ticketed for running a red light think about the family that might be passing through the freshly new green!!!!!!!!


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## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

lurepopper said:


> i know its off topic but this red light camera ******** is old. you, me and everyone else runs red lights but does that make it right? i dont like the cameras anymore than anyone else does but think about it, get a few tickets for running lights these people might think twice about their aggressive driving when it hits their pocketbooks.


I haven't seen many red lights on the Gulf of Mexico except on the top of buoys.


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## Calmday (Jul 7, 2005)

Snagged said:


> Guys,
> Maybe because I'm old I see these two as beat cops getting to know the neighborhood. They are doing a job and haven't done us harm.


I agree. These guys have my full support. It seems that they are keeping an eye on coms as well as recs.


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## SpoonColors (Oct 29, 2007)

*great job*

Sounds like you guys have....and are doing a great job. I only have 2 questions. Are you hiring and do I have to speak vietnamese?


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## nelson6500 (Jun 8, 2007)

SpoonColors said:


> I only have 2 questions. Are you hiring and do I have to speak vietnamese?


What does speaking Vietnamese have to do with the job?

Matt


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## JohnHumbert (May 21, 2004)

*An Open Letter to Law Enforcement*

Hello gentlemen, thank you for your open letter. I applaude y'all for starting this open dialog. In return, I am posting an open letter of my own, and I hope that it the ideas and information will get back to you in some way.

First, I really don't think anyone here thinks negatively of law enforcement. Quite the contrary, in fact. I think we all know that y'all do a tough job, with little thanks or rewards. I will always doff my chapeau to you guys.

However, I think you've unfairly been put in a tough spot by the NMFS - one that is certain to promote conflict. I am deeply saddened to see that, because I truly believe that on-the-water LEO know what the true situation is - and they don't like it either.

Furthermore, I think y'all may be missing a very important point - one that you really need to fully understand if you desire to limit and reduce the conflict. In your letter, you state that if we don't like the Federal laws, then we should get them changed, not violate them.

Gentlemen, WE HAVE TRIED. We have tried and tried and tried. For more than 10 years. We have shown HUGE amount of evidence of the true nature of the fishery - and they ignore us and pander to the commercials. We have tried to ENFORCE THE LAW that they (the NMFS) should be following, and they ignore us. We bring lawsuits against them, and they ignore us. We expose false, perjured information - and they ignore us. We expose corruption, and they ignore us. We have spent millions of dollars and countless man-hours to get a reasonable, sane management of the fishery - and they CONTINUE to ignore us, back-stab us in negioations, threaten us with closures, and lie every step of the way.

The situation now is that we HAVE NO OTHER CHOICE. Either we meekly submit to the regulations and end up NOT fishing most, if not all the time - or we don't comply. Civil disobedience is the only choice we have left in some cases. This is an effective way to combat the unfairness and corruption that is rampant in the NMFS policies. Think "tea party" here.

Now their are violators, and there are violators. To me, there's a world of difference between 2 guys that catch 20 snapper and 2 guys who keep 4 snapper. There are - and will always be - those who have no regard for the resources and the law, and those who "control" their violation. Just like there's a difference between someone who drives 70 (when the speed limit was 55) and someone who drives 90mph.

And, just like with the speed limit, widespread disobedience and the inability to enforce changed the speed limits, controlled disobedience with the snapper regs can lead to a more reasonable "limit". Just like someone who drove 70 when the law was 55, the decision is personal - and one should expect to be ticketed. Just like I would never encourage/disparage anyone to speed over the limit, I would not encourage/disparage anyone to break the snapper laws and keep 4 - but it wouldn't bother me if they did and my sympathies would be with them if they were ticketed. All the while still condemning someone who raced around at 90mph.

Likewise, I wouldn't blame an officer for writing someone a ticket for driving 70 - it's not THIER fault the law was bad. And trust me, I got my share of speeding tickets and I was honest, open, and very respectful of the officers.

Actually, the speeding analogy can apply very well to this snapper issue. One of the BIG reasons the speed limit was changed was the OFFICERS complained about having to enforce the law, and the fact that widespread enforcement was not practical. They knew that the highways were perfectly safe for 70mph, and that reasonable people driving at that speed had little effect on the population - and had no moral factor. And while driving fatalities dropped when the speed limit was reduced, they did NOT go back up when the speed limit was increased. In fact, they continued to drop to do better/safer vehicles, seat belt laws, etc.

Now if the LEO's started shooting people for 70mph, I'm certain the deterrent and reprocussions would have made widespread enforcement and compliance much better. But of course that would have been way out of line - even though the officers could have done so - although in some cases it might have been appropriate.

The same is true for confiscating GPS units. While effective, and the officers have the right to do so - it is WAY out of line. The damage and headaches for both the officers and individual citizens is way disportionate to the offense. It some cases, it might be very well appropriate, but I doubt it is warranted with 2 guys with 4 snapper.

Furthermore, two guys fishing in July, who catch 2 snapper each in Federal water and then 2 more each in State water ARE IN COMPLIANCE, but under threat of seizure or inappropriate fines, are going to come under suspicion - even if they have done nothing wrong. It would be IMPOSSIBLE to prove otherwise - and therefore enforcement in these situations is moot. Officers that would attempt to enforce - to the point of GPS seizure - are going to be looked upon very negatively. It borders on harrasment - even though the officers would be within the letter of the law on enforcement.

I would advise you that attempted enforcement of this type is going to backfire on you and your department very negatively and will end up making y'all the bad guys.

I would suggest that you push to the NMFS and your superiors and say "Hey look, we can't enforce this reg in this situation! Doing so will open up our officers and department to civil litigation and promote conflict with the recreational anglers". Y'all come out with a statement that in cases of doubt, the benefit of the doubt will go to the angler - and you will get TONS of mileage out of that with us recreational anglers and TONS of support, admiration, and respect.

While this will undoubtably allow some folks to break the rules - but only slightly, and in a very controlled manner. Our legal system has a proud heritage of the principle "Better to let 10 guilty men go free than punish 1 innocent man." No doubt it will INFURIATE the NMFS.

You are in a very special place in history - and in a very special position to help success in getting a reasonable, prudent red snapper plan - you alone could help "save the snapper" with this action. You could succeed where years of lobbying, millions of dollars, and dozen of lawsuits have failed. You could be our savior!

Or you could choose to be the NMFS's gestapo.

The choice is up to you.

Finally, I don't think that ANY recreational angler in Texas wants to hit the resource to the point of diminishing return. If - biologically - the limit needs to be 1 fish per person, then I sincerely believe you aren't going to get much argument from the recreational angler. And you will get compliance and self-policing. Texas anglers have demonstrated this over and over again, with redfish, speckled trout, ling, amberjack, etc. Texas inshore anglers have be crying "Just keep 5" for speckled trout for years now even though the fishery has been proven to support the 10 fish per day. This sort of "voluntary conservation" effort by angler to reduce their own take without being forced to do so speaks volumes about the Texas angler.

But the facts and evidence collected thus far - despite the sping and BS the NMFS spouts - all point to the contrary. The taking of 4 snaps per person seems to be valid - all year long. I have a great deal of confidence in the TP&W, and they have a pretty darn good track record. If they say 4 snaps/pppd is good - then I believe them. If they don't think that, and if there was any real evidence to support that, then TP&W could - and would - easily change the state limit. But they haven't.

Furthermore, any conservation that Texas recreational anglers is wiped out by the practice of giving our "unused" quota to the commercial angler. What good does it to conserve if our efforts are destroyed by the commercial interests? Might as well take them ourselves. This is the sort of policy that the NMFS propagates.

It should be clear to you what everybody else already knows - the NMFS is NOT interested in conservation or creating a trophy fishery - the one and only interest is to prop up the commercial industry - even if that is at the expense of the recreational angler - and a recreational industry that pumps 100x the dollars into the economy.

As such, the laws/regulations are purely POLITICAL, not biological. There is no way you can make a biological argument and expect us recs to keep a straight face.

And a law/reg that is purely political, driven by kick-backs, underhanded deals, and corruption is a law that DOES NOT deserve respect. Americans, especially Texans, and especially the rugged individualists that offshore fish in Texas are just not the type that knuckle under to political pressure - they are more likely to be mavericks.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Here--Here. Ill toast to the post above.

Charlie


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## [email protected] Sportfishing (Jun 10, 2005)

I too applaud you for your efforts. And I agree a forum could be very helpful for all of us.

John (the post above) has hit the nail on the head. Very well said.

David


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## Hotrod (Oct 11, 2006)

Congrats John, a well said post!


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## nelson6500 (Jun 8, 2007)

JohnHumbert,

On a long post like your I usually scan it and go to the next post, But would like to tell you that I read your post word for word 2 X's and love it more and more. 
Thank you for your your post.

Matt


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## Tiny (Dec 19, 2006)

Bravo Mr. Humbert Bravo Sir!!

Maybe these Leo's will pass this information along.


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## Levelwind (Apr 15, 2005)

Charles and Matt, 

Thank you for opening this dialogue and I hope it continues. As one of the chief stone throwers, I can say that your appreciation of our issues and concerns and your willingness to address these points and pass on your contact information is very encouraging. I applaud your work, especially as regards commercial violators and undocumented charter operators. I'll further say my tendency to relate to you because of obnoxious and heavy handed dealings from USFWS C.O.s and agents may have been unfair, and I apologize for painting y'all with the same brush having had no personal dealings with you. 

I agree with many of John's points, but I think there is common ground. I believe we all want to see flagrant lawbreakers punished, whether commercial or recreational. Your input on nonsensical and unenforceable laws could be a very potent consideration for the Council.


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## Capt Mike 1 (Mar 9, 2005)

*not the same to compare*

I just want to comment on the part of letter where it talkes about Texans building up the redfish stock and deer harvest. Yes it is true that the redfish stock has rebuilt and the deer harvest is better than ever..This doesnt compare to the red snapper season they are enforcing. The reason the redfish and deer are striving is there is no commercial season on either species. If they wanted the snapper to rebuild then there should be no commercial involvment.Or at least they should only fish during the rec season..


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## sea ray (Mar 15, 2006)

Good deal, thanks for the informative post. Glad to hear the violators have something to worry about.


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## Captn C (May 21, 2004)

Capt Mike 1 said:


> I just want to comment on the part of letter where it talkes about Texans building up the redfish stock and deer harvest. Yes it is true that the redfish stock has rebuilt and the deer harvest is better than ever..This doesnt compare to the red snapper season they are enforcing. The reason the redfish and deer are striving is there is no commercial season on either species. *If they wanted the snapper to rebuild then there should be no commercial involvment.*Or at least they should only fish during the rec season..


Capt Mike,
I have brought that up to Crabtree before during an e-mail. He did his normal dip/jive/crawfish move. They claim that because they have "accountability" they are good to go. It kind of the same thing they are trying to push with the SOS plan for the for-hire group.

Crabtree and company knows the Red Snapper are not in trouble. IMO-They are trying to push out as many end user as they can...esp. permitted end users.

Great post John!


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## JohnHumbert (May 21, 2004)

*Follow-up...*

Judging by the emails and responses I've been getting, the responses to my post have been very encouraging...but I wanted to make a few clarifications and expand it a bit.

Without getting into the reasons why the NMFS regs are bogus - we all know that they are and no need to beat that dead horse - this post is about ENFORCEMENT.

Strictly speaking, with Texas having a year-round 4-fish limit in State waters, it is virtually IMPOSSIBLE for anyone to enforce the Federal limits equally, fairly, and without undue, unlawful, or unconstitional means.

This has got the NMFS is a tizzy.

You see, the only meaningful laws are ones that can be enforced. This is a universal truth.

While we recs have been totally unsuccessful in getting reasonable and prudent regs, the NMFS has been totally unsuccessful in getting their unreasonable regs enforced. It burns them up to no end.

And so it is a stalemate.

So the new tactic from the NMFS is to come down HARD on enforcement - especially for us nasty, uppity Texans who refuse to knuckle under to Federal intrusion into our state waters.

Since the NMFS can't get Texas to adopt their regs in State waters, they are trying to do the next best thing. Punish us with unilateral unenforcement.

Since they know that under the current regs, there is no practical way that they can prove where a snapper is caught - they can "force" Federal compliance in State waters by using Gestapo-like tactics in enforcement.

While a guy could (in Federal Season) legally catch 2 snaps in Federal and then catch 2 snaps in State waters - and there's no way to prove that. The NMFS is directing enforcement divisions to use unreasonable search and seizure to bully fisherman into using Federal regs in State water.

How? Because if fisherman are threatened with seizure of boats, GPS units, and huge fines - the fisherman will be unwilling to take a chance on getting stopped or being subject to the whim of an officer in the field.

So he will end up only keeping 2 snaps regardless of where caught during Federal season.

Likewise, during the Federal closure - if he comes back to dock with any snapper at all, the LEO's may rip the GPS unit off his boat, or even seize his boat, while a case is made - regardless if he's done anything wrong.

Under this threat, the typical fisherman will cave in and stop keeping snapper at all during Federal closures in order to avoid the risk of loss of boat or costly damages.

THIS is the reason that enforcement issue has been raised. You can just imagine the NMFS boys evil chuckle and twirling of their mustaches. Truly a sinister plot - and unfortunately, an effective one.

There is good news, however. We should also realize that this is a desperation move on part of the NMFS. Because they know that without enforcement, their regs are meaningless. Haha - we've got them there.

So the battle for the snapper moves from the courtroom and council room and out into the field, and has been put in the hands of the LEO's. Putting them right smack dab in harm's way.

So it all comes down to a very few enforcement boys. All eyes are on you.

You can either use the gestapo-like tactics, threaten, seize, and over-the-top enforcement and squash the little guy - innocent or not. Or you can push back on the NMFS, take the honest stand, and decline to enforce when there is doubt - stand up for the little guy - and deliver a big SLAP right back at the NMFS.

It is really a brilliant move on the NMFS part, because if anything goes wrong - it's the LEO boys who will be holding the bag. It will be those individuals who will get sued, lose their jobs and/homes, etc. The NMFS will let these guys do their dirty work for them, and can insulate themselves.

The innocent folks who are complying will get caught up in these tactics, losing their property, and the NMFS can always retort - "well, it's because of those nasty so-and-so's who are fishing in Federal waters out of season". They can get rec's to turn on each other. They will put LEO's in undue danger.

But the LEO's might surprise us. They could adopt an internal policy take the individual rec who has a State limit out of the picture. If they do so, the NMFS will be FORCED to deal with Texas and reasonable snapper management program. One that Texas can adopt and change their state laws to match, making enforcement uniform, fair, and even. Texas will do so, I am absolutely certain (have been told as much).

You see, that is the REAL reason that Texas is refusing to go along with the NMFS unfair policy. They know that they, and they alone, can battle the Feds and win - for EVERYBODY. Florida, LA, AL, Texas, and most of all - the snapper themselves.


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## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

John, you are an intelligent man. Answer one question for me. Do you believe that federally caught snapper are being declared as state caught snapper? 

If your answer is "yes", then do you believe it's widespread?


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## JohnHumbert (May 21, 2004)

*My answer*

Mont, my friend....

The answer to your first question "Yes, ABSOLUTELY!"

I don't know what defines "widespread", but of the boats/people I know - I would say that at least 60% of them have done it at least once. And probably 40% have done it more than once, and maybe 10% do it regularly.

And if your next question is "Do I think it's wrong?" - the answer to that would also be "Yes, ABSOLUTELY".

And the follow-up to that would be "And I do not think it is impacting the fishery negatively at all - but it's still wrong under the law."

The only thing more wrong is to punish EVERYBODY for this action. Kinda like giving EVERYBODY a fine every year because exceeding the speed limit is commonplace.

Plus I will add that sometimes you have to break a rule to force change. Like stop taxation-with-representation, or to be able to buy beer and drink openly, or drink from a "whites only" water fountain if you are black.

The fact that "widespread" non-compliance may - probably - exists, should tell you that the law is suspect - always has, always will. The public has a great history of bringing out the truth with non-compliance - it's one of the great things about our country - and our state.

The question remains is what type of LEO's do we have on this issue - the kind that will beat the bejesus of a black kid at the water fountain, or the kind that will let him drink.

It's a moral issue for the officer based upon the underlying truth - and I know YOU know what the truth is, or you wouldn't be trying so hard to get the regs changed.


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## Swells (Nov 27, 2007)

Mont said:


> John, you are an intelligent man. Answer one question for me. Do you believe that federally caught snapper are being declared as state caught snapper?
> 
> If your answer is "yes", then do you believe it's widespread?


Hey Mont I know you asked Mr. John but as far as our area in the South Texas Sector (off Port Mansfield/Port Isabel) there are so many snapper inshore it isn't funny. If there are any "line crossers" it's probably to gain a mile for a rig or wreck and I doubt it's very common. For example, we have some 10-mile rigs here.

There again, our neck of the woods is known for having a rather small fisherman population and TPWD has a reputation for being pretty darn forcefully good down here, and regularly shake down our local commercial snapper boat and check all the coolers on the recs, in addition to the regular stuff. Yes, they find and fine a few but in the "big picture," its the Mexican boats sneaking up from Playa Bagdad that do most of the true poaching.

So I think the situation varies by what area of Texas you're talking about. You have over 3 million people up by the Houston-Galveston area and a ton of fishermen. South of there, you get different stories. And way down here, the commercials and charters are NOT a problem, and most of the fishermen know the deal. At the extreme south end, it's more of a Border Patrol kind of thing - and yes, they have a go-fast boat with triple Yammie 300's on it, the fastest thing down here except for old man Gilhain's 88 MPH diesel catamaran racer he uses for chartered joy rides. -sam


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## Bonito (Nov 17, 2008)

Charles and Matt,

I support you in every way. Good thread ! You can check my boat any time. Hopefully I'll have enough fish so yall can eat fresh fish, too. 

I'm glad you guys are out there. Sounds like you are a little understaffed. Keep up the good work..

John


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## hippyfisher (Mar 24, 2009)

Nice thread.

Mr. Humbert really nailed this one.

One question, its been a couple of days, when are we going to get a response from the two officers that wrote the original letter?


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## CLVL (Aug 17, 2005)

Charles and Matt,

Thanks for posting the letter thru Mont, and hope you will participate in the forum as much as your position as a LEO allows. I'd like to see a thread to ask questions of LEOs, both yourselves, USCG, and TPW - and have you keep us updated where you have caught violators. I think when reasonable people start talking, good things can happen.

John H - great series of posts


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## Chase This! (Jul 20, 2007)

I don't fish for snapper because if I did, I would have to read way too much.

Brandon


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## Slightly Dangerous (May 21, 2004)

John Humbert, that was a way big guess on how many offshore fishermen take illegal snapper. Care to let us know how you came up with it? I fish as much as anyone else out there and I sure as heck don't see the numbers you are talking.


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## hilton (Jan 28, 2008)

*enforcement*

Howdy,
I applaud the effort by our law enforcement guys to reach out to us on this forum - it is only through such discussion that understanding can occur. Also, I know it's often a thankless job to go forth and enforce the laws - I would like to Thank You right here and now.

I do have a couple of questions regarding the violations however;

*Commercial IFQ Vessel* IFQ violations in Beaumont. *$4,000 fine issued 03/09*
*Commercial IFQ Vessel* IFQ Violations in Galveston. *$30,000 fine 3/09
Commercial IFQ Vessel* Galveston, failure to take observer *$10,000 fine issued 1/09
Commercial IFQ Vessel* for anchoring within the Flower Gardens. *fine Pending*.
*Commercial IFQ Vessel*-12,000 pounds illegal red snapper- *$55,000 fine, 90 day permit *sanction.
*Commercial IFQ vessel*- Sell IFQ red snapper to restaurants - *fine pending* 

*There is over $100,000 in fines for IFQ violations by vessels here. Just as Border Control has its share of success stories in catching the drug trafficers, there is obviously a large amount of drugs brought across the border undetected (due to the amount of drugs in America today). *

*1) What is the estimated poundage of illegal IFQ Red Snapper that get by your defenses? *

*2) Was this estimated amount of illegal IFQ Red Snapper applied to the commercial TAC? *

*3) If not, why not?* 

*4) If you are not estimating this poundage, why not? There is certainly estimations all over the place, such as discard mortality, effort, etc. that are applied toward TAC calculations - why not estimations of undetected illegal commercial harvest which is obviously occurring? *
 
*Commercial IFQ Buyer* IFQ violations in Beaumont*,$4,000 fine issued 3/09.*
*Commercial IFQ Buyer* IFQ *$30,000 fine issued 3/09*
*Commercial Dealer*- Purchase $1M of fish without a dealer permit- *$100,000 fine*

*5) There seems to be some loopholes in the system here, especially considering that one Commercial Dealer can process $1 MILLION DOLLARS worth of fish without a dealer permit. Let's see...$1 MILLION divided by $5/pound = 200,000 pounds, or almost 10% of the ENTIRE COMMERCIAL TAC.*

*6) Was this poundage applied towards the commercial TAC?*

*7) If not, why not?*

Again, thanks in advance for all of your hard work guys.

All the best,

Tom


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## Mike Jennings (Oct 11, 2005)

Jerry , i know nothing of percentages and assume we could all just pull some numbers out of our hats , but i would bet it happens way more often than you imagine my friend , i wont get into numbers but will offer, some observations ,on the few calm days over the last few months wile making runs , for grouper Ajs b-liners , and wahoo, i have seen countless boats sitting on structure in 80 to 130 feet of water , not just 1 or 2 , but 10 and 12 at a time , there were no kingfish there , no dolphin , to shallow for AJs, b-liners, grouper and wahoo , the 32's and the 21's have been covered with boats as i pass by , and these calm day seem to coincide with sudden limits of 15 to 20 lb snapper , 

im not sure about others but i know exactly what they are doing and its not fishing for triggers , whether you feel it is right ,wrong or your completely indeferent , its happening and it happens often .

is my observation of 10 , 12 or 15 boats what you would call widespread ?, , , , , well that your call , but i will tell you this , if there is someone who can consistently catch limits of 15 to 20 lb. snapper in state waters out of our port , let me know , ill pay for the lesson . 

i despise the regs as much as anyone , but that doesnt mean i don't see whats happening . and with the seas predicted for tomorrow , ill lay money we see some limits of unusualy large state water snapper hit the dock.

Mike


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## Angler 1 (Apr 27, 2005)

Mont,

Will you be asking the NMFS guys in Texas and see if they are interested in joining 2cool and maybe do some Q & A?


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## hilton (Jan 28, 2008)

*snapper*

Capt. Jennings,
If that is what you are seeing out there, then the purpose of this thread initiated by our law enforcement guys is for us to police ourselves. Pick up the phone and call the NOAA hotline or number listed on the first post (409-770-0812.). Alert the authorities to be waiting at the 9 mile line to board all boats coming in. Take photos or better yet, videos of the outlaws and turn that in as evidence.

If that's what's happening, then we, as Texans, need to step up and stop it, and STOP IT NOW. That's not right.

All the best,
Tom


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## jcmalibuboats (Apr 16, 2007)

Is it just me our am I the only one who hears nothing but crickets from LEO? Im just saying, I thought dialogue involved a two discussion with regard to opposing or different parties....I want to hear their opinion, we all just about agree, this is not new. I know I don't post very much, but I DO read various threads often. So again, where are the responses?


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

*I Agree*



hilton said:


> Capt. Jennings,
> If that is what you are seeing out there, then the purpose of this thread initiated by our law enforcement guys is for us to police ourselves. Pick up the phone and call the NOAA hotline or number listed on the first post (409-770-0812.). Alert the authorities to be waiting at the 9 mile line to board all boats coming in. Take photos or better yet, videos of the outlaws and turn that in as evidence.
> 
> If that's what's happening, then we, as Texans, need to step up and stop it, and STOP IT NOW. That's not right.
> ...


A few months after I got my boat I asked Ric Jacobsen to assist me in fine-tuning my fish-finder. This was in March of 2007 and we stopped at 3-5 state and federal spots that day. My goal was to learn how to find fish and stay over a spot once we found it. Ric was doing a great job teaching me, and at one particular spot 18 miles offshore we caught and released 4 - 5 solid snapper. While there, another boat pulls up, with a solo fisherman who proceeds to catch and keep 6-7 snapper, all over 15". Ric and I looked at each other and muttered "bastage" under our breath. Since that time I've seen a few other violations, one in particular where an Asian family was tied-off to a rig about 25 miles out, catching fish with only hand lines. Everything, even the tinyest snapper, went into their ice chests. I'm sure many of us have seen the same thing. It pi**ed me off then and it still does. Commercials do way more damage that recs, but when anyone cheats it hurts us all in the end. Don't know why I didn't turn those dudes in, but not anymore. Got the number in my speed dial.


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## Mike Jennings (Oct 11, 2005)

Bill were those people you saw keeping everything they caught , in a large Century walk around ?


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## JohnHumbert (May 21, 2004)

*My numbers....*

... are strictly based upon the handful of guys I know who fish and that I keep up with....a fairly small number. And it's based upon relatively infrequent trips.

For example, here is a typical fictitous example - how about a guy who fishes offhore 3 or 4 times last year. He had made a stop at a state snapper stop and he and 2 buddies caught 11 smallish snapper - all around 20-22".

They then went further offshore for grouper. Caught 2 small gags and banged about a dozen large snapper, of which they kept one around 20 lbs. to complete their "limit".

Illegal, you bet. But hardly a flagrant violation.

I think this sort of thing goes on FAR more than you would realize.

For me, my boat has been in and out of the shop for over 2 years. Haven't made a SINGLE trip in my boat. Went once last summer as a 4th on a charter - and the captain immediately set up on a spot about 25 miles off and proceeded to bang 20" snapper pretty quick.

I probably might be able to make ONE trip during the Federal season this year. Especially since my posts are well known, I KNOW I will be a target for enforcement. In fact, I have been told as much. Last time I put the boat in the water - wasn't even going fishing, just a "shake down" cruise after some repairs - I had no less than 12 Coasties board my boat at the dock and went over every single detail. Just my luck there were a group of trainees. Have to say the Coasties were polite, courteous, and very generous to me. I didn't get a violation, but there were some very minor items that they COULD have issued a citation for, things like accessibility of fire gear, air horn that wasn't working properly, etc.

But I am scared sh-tless that when I go out this summer, if I come back inshore with 4 snapper, they will rip the GPS off my console, and write me up - no matter where I get my snapper. So I probably won't target snaps at all (besides the summer is for billfish, mahi, and wahoo anyway).

I have some state snapper spots, but to be honest - the only time I get large fish is in the winter/spring. The inshore spots around POC are generally small 20" fish at best.

Personally, I would rather catch 2 fish at 20-25lbs than 4 at 20". I would be very happy with that - provided I could do it year-round. Again, for me - with the limited times that work/weather/weekend line up - at best I could make 2-3 snapper trips a year. Trying to time ONE trip during a very brief summer season is probably NOT going to happen - and unless you are on the coast (I live in Dallas), the shortened season and regs mean that I probably won't ever catch any legal snapper.

There are FAR more of us in my situation than you lucky stiffs that live on the coast and can fish anytime, even during the week. A lot of my buds are in the same situation, and if they make ONE trip a year, they feel that they ought to be able to take a couple snapper - but won't be able to unless they get "creative" in their fishing.

Let's face it, the snapper is the mainstay of offshore fishing in Texas. And state snapper spots from the mid-coast north are few and far between - and get hammered pretty good. If you make it so that it is impractical to hit a tiny window to catch Federal snapper, and threaten over-the-top enforcement, you leave no choice for these anglers but to either bend the rules, or give up their boats. Other species such as grouper, AJ's, etc. are - for most - not as reliable or consistent as snapper.

And giving up their boats IS happening - en masse. Along with the millions of dollars in revenue poured into the economy.

People who know me wonder why I get so worked up over this - because 95% of the time I am inshore throwing topwaters for big trout and redfish - and when I do venture offshore, I am really more for marlin and wahoo. In the past 5 years - me and my buds have caught exactly 15 red snapper from my boat - that's it. I hardly think that has had an impact on the fishery - no matter when, where, or how we caught 'em.


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## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

My question to John was well answered. Sammie really nailed it. We do have an "honest" state fishery for Red Snapper on the lower coast. I stood belly button to belly button with Commissioner Parker and Chairman Holt the day the decision was made not to match the federal season on RS. I can't speak for those gentlemen, but it was my understanding they were trying to protect a legitimate state RS fishery. What (I believe) they didn't do, was give *anyone* a license to steal. By that, I mean they didn't make it right/legal for any of us to go into federal waters and catch RS and then bring them back into state waters and claim they were caught there. 

Those that know me personally know I am and always have been in this *for the fish*. They don't get a vote, they don't have a chair at the meetings, and they can't speak for themselves. They do have me in their corner. I don't attend meetings to make friends, I don't give testimony to "please" someone, and I don't spend my personal vacation time to do all that for anyone but myself and the snapper. You don't have to look very hard to find the "save ourselves" crowd, the "tree huggers", those in it for "the money", and those actually getting "paid" to be at these meetings, hearings, and so forth. I am smart enough to choose my battles wisely and have enough integrity to give a d amn as well as to be the sole vote against something that a dozen or more people vote for. I may lose the vote, but the battle is never over. It probably will outlast me at the rate it's going. 

When these federal agents contacted me, I saw an opportunity to do something for the fish. My personal photo, my boat, and where I fish are all easily found and well known. If anyone here thinks they have a bulls eye painted on them, I know exactly how you feel. I don't know who came up with the plan to contact me, nor do I care. I was contacted with information that I felt would benefit the fishery, as well as the fishermen in it. I relayed that information right here, in public, for all to see. Each person here can make their own choices about where to fish, what to keep and what to do about what they see out there. I can only control what happens on my boat, and if I land a state snapper, then it will have been caught in state waters and be done legally, ethically, and properly. Up until that day, I will wait for the federal season to open and when that day comes, bring home my 2 legal snapper for anyone and everyone to see. 

Matt and Charles (and several other federal employees) read here daily. I am collecting your questions, and they have asked me to present a list of those questions to them, after which, they will provide answers. Understand, they are fisheries law enforcement first though. There's plenty to do out there without dealing with anything here. That's my job, and sometime down the road, their answers will be posted. 

Like I said, I don't think the TPWD Commissioners voted to give anyone a license to steal. If they did, then one of them needs to contact me directly, so I can go into Federal Waters and take 4 fish next week, on the record, for all to see, so we can set up a test case. Up until that happens, I suggest that each of you throw back your federal RS until the season opens. They haven't outlawed fishing (yet), but if some of those involved in the process get their way, it will happen. It's called a Marine Preserve, or more properly a MPA. It has in fact, already happened in the Gulf. We need to play by the rules to see that it doesn't happen to us.


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## JohnHumbert (May 21, 2004)

*Thanks!!!*

Mont,

I thank you for ALL your efforts for the snapper. Not the least of which is to provide this forum for all of us to speak freely. I, along with many others, REALLY appreciate it.

If there was an Oscar given for humanitarian efforts, you would get my vote.

We might not always see eye-to-eye, but you have my deepest respect and gratitude for all you do.

And for the record, lest anyone draw the wrong idea - I may not respect the snapper regs and those folks who made them - but I have the utmost respect for those on the water enforcing them.


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## Swampus (Sep 1, 2005)

I think this is a great idea for us to be behind all of our LEO's and the best of sucess to Charles and Matt in catching and prossecuting the offenders who "Rape" our reasourses here in Texas.

It is easy................................just obey the rules as you have stated Mont and we will have a better fishery in the end. .02!

swampus and crew!


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## Leemo (Nov 16, 2006)

Hypocrisy......total hypocrisy!


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## hilton (Jan 28, 2008)

*snapper*

Mont,
Good points.

I believe that the average person respects and abides by the law. There is a percentage of the population who will always break the rules, and is why there are prisons holding about 3% of the population of the U.S.

That being said, if the feds pass laws that they obviously cannot enforce, then ask us to police ourselves, then that speaks for itself.

Prohibition has not and will not work.

The American people have stood up for their rights since this country began - it ain't gonna change now.

Tom


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

*Can't Say For Sure*



Mike Jennings said:


> Bill were those people you saw keeping everything they caught , in a large Century walk around ?


Mike - unfortunately I don't recall that info because I was too busy trying to hold my boat over the spot on my GPS/sounder.


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## JohnHumbert (May 21, 2004)

*Swampus...*

...dude, with all due respect, you need to re-read this thread..

Here are the important points:

(1) The regs are not rooted in biology - they're political, obeying them will NOT improve our fishery - they will allow the commercial fisherman to take more of the recreational harvest. Remember, every fish we put back is another one for the commercials. Our conservation allows the commercial quota to be raised.

(2) The best biological data, supported by our own TP&W, indicates a year-round season with recreational limits will not deplete the fishery. Reduction of commercial harvest, greater punishment and enforcement for commercials, and reduced by-catch are the solutions for building a world class fishery.

(3) Rather than take the steps in #2, the NMFS service is putting pressure on the enforcement branch to hit the recreational anglers HARD, and use whatever means neccessary to harass, threaten, deter, and prevent the taking of "their" "federal" snapper - to the point of confiscating boats, GPS units, etc.

(4) The intent of #3 is NOT to get better enforcement, but to drive anglers off the water or scare them into obeying the stricter Federal rules rather than the more liberal, scientific State regulations - even when they fishing in State waters by the threat of confiscations and/or heavy fines in cases where there is doubt.

(5) Texas anglers have been exploiting a "loophole" due to the disparity between Federal and State regulations and the difficulty in enforcement on catch locations to take Federal snapper during closed season. This practice has been widespread.

(6) The number of snapper illegally taken through the loophole outlined in #5 is not a significant number, and roughly represents the limits and regs that SHOULD already be in place if the NMFS were doing their job correctly and following the best biological data.

(7) This latest move by the NMFS will make things hard for the LEO's and cause them to come under greater risk, both personally and professionally. It will also cause tensions to build greater between the commercial and recreational sectors. It puts enforcement between a rock and a hard place. It puts recreational anglers between a rock and hard place. It puts commercial fisherman in the catbird seat. Without internally policy put in place from the LEO's, the confrontation between comms and recs will escalate out of control.

(8) If the LEO's adopt an internal policy that allows the loophole to continue, the power of the NMFS will be wiped out - because without enforcement, they become impotent. The all-encompassing, unilateral, corruptive power of the NMFS will cease - their back will be broken. This will force the NMFS to negioate to a more reasonable solution between the commercials and recreational anglers - and the State. Which, in turn, will lead to a world-class fishery.


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## Chase This! (Jul 20, 2007)

JH, 

(1) first let me say that it's only snapper (pretty low on my totem poll).

(2) Second, let me say that I am starting to think you are full of bull.

(3) referring to your #3, I have never been threatened or harassed by the NMFS LEOs. They did walk up to our boat, politely asked us if we were guides, asked it we were targeting snapper, and let us on our way.

(4) If you continue with your rambling posts, you might be able to sell "Cliff Notes" of this thread for $5.

Brandon


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## Leemo (Nov 16, 2006)

Chase This! said:


> JH,
> 
> (1) first let me say that it's only snapper (pretty low on my totem poll).
> 
> ...


:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:


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## Swells (Nov 27, 2007)

Be very careful, gentlemens, there's Leemos out there on the water ... watchin' your every move. :rotfl:


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## Calmday (Jul 7, 2005)

Chase This! said:


> JH,
> 
> (1) first let me say that it's only snapper (pretty low on my totem poll).
> 
> ...


I have to second this. :cheers:


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## JohnHumbert (May 21, 2004)

*Brandon...*

Hey Brandon, I enjoy a good joke...go ahead and laugh....I frequently get laughed at, ridiculed, called-out, and told I'm full of BS on this board.

But, if you go back and check - everything I've predicted on the NMFS on this snapper issue - EVERYTHING, that's 100% - has come true EXACTLY as I said it would. And I was told I was full of BS many, many times.

I'll let y'all in on a little secret. I am not guessing, I KNOW. If you knew me, and what I do for a living, and where I do it - you'd know that I have access to LOTS of information that I cannot directly disclose.


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## Levelwind (Apr 15, 2005)

JH, 

You may have read my post on another thread in which I cited some of the same concerns re; intimidation. It may have been, in part, responsible for Matt and Charles post. Or not. They say they aren't going to play this game and I will definitely take them at their word, we'll know soon enough. 

NMFS uses the best available science for their regulatory activity. We can throw rocks at them all day long (and I do) but fact is they are governed by the Magnuson Act on one side and SEDARS on the other. Dr. Shipp has published some very good peer reviewed papers which don't seem to have gotten proper consideration. I don't know how SEDARS data is deemed "best available", but as best I can figure out it they are an at least somewhat independent body. Maybe Tom or Mont can further enlighten me. 

As I mentioned on the other thread, we stand to lose a lot by 
1. cheating or 
2. Conceding our right to fish, and retain fish, in Texas waters. 

Our Commission has endured a lot of slings and arrows to protect this right for Texans. If we embarrass them by refusing to play by the rules, or if we allow ourselves to be coerced into giving up this right, what a shame and an embarrassment to the fine people who stood up for us. As mention ad infinitum, there are few productive state spots on the upper coast, but there are more the further down the coastline you go. But IF and WHEN, the Great Texas Barrier Reef becomes a reality, the precedent and the ability to govern our own state waters off the upper coast could become HUGE. 

For those who (unlike me) ARE legally able to take advantage of our State water fishing, here's an idea. I would do this if it were an issue to me. To reduce the threat of confiscation, fines, harassment, etc., if you're concerned, a little picture taking with time stamping could be real useful. I would snap a few of the chartplotter, fish coming over the side, and of course any landmarks, like rigs, etc. The peace of mind of a few minutes establishing a good "alibi" would seem a good investment to me, and I'd sure do it.


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## Crossroads (May 21, 2004)

Well I don't think red snapper laws actually warrant a revolution or civil disobedience. However, it is all political dung as far as I'm concerned with no biology involved. I never intend to show up at the dock with more than what the TPWD says I can have. Beyond that, I don't think I have to answer anyone's question whether it's law enforcement or not. Besides using a GPS to find fishing spots is kinda cheating for us older guys.


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## NOAA SA 1 (Apr 18, 2009)

Thanks for all the phone calls and replies to the thread. I have read the posts and am working on responses. Most of the time my replies will be delayed (just like everything in the Fed Govt, right?). I have a very busy job and don't get to monitor the thread daily. Feel free to send a PM, email, or call the office if you need a questioned answered right away.
Charles, 409-770-0812, [email protected]


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## JohnHumbert (May 21, 2004)

*GREAT idea!*

Levelwind,

IMHO, you hit a home run with that idea. Digitial pictures or video documenting your catch, with background of landmarks, waypoints is an EXCELLENT way to document your catches.

One thing is for certain, there's not a lot who can do about anything at this point - it's going to be in the hands of LEOs.

But I can let y'all in on a little bit of info - the State of Texas is fixin' to get involved in this. Crabtree and the NMFS really have underestimated how much they ****** off Texas legislators. Right now they are busy with a few more important matters, but they are going to circle back to this issue.

I feel sorry for anyone who gets in cross between Texas and the NMFS.


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## James Howell (May 21, 2004)

On the lighter side of all this, I don't think a single fisherman from Texas will have to worry about being boarded and searched this year, because they will spend all their time staking out Humbert. Thanks for being the designated decoy, John.


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## Crossroads (May 21, 2004)

JohnHumbert, please post when you are going fishing so the rest of know that all the Fed satelite surveilance, eavesdropping, and stakeouts are occupied.


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## texasfisherman (Mar 9, 2007)

*i second that!*



James Howell said:


> On the lighter side of all this, I don't think a single fisherman from Texas will have to worry about being boarded and searched this year, because they will spend all their time staking out Humbert. Thanks for being the designated decoy, John.


 Way to go JH. Maybe nobody else will state their appreciation but I for one want to say thanks! Just kidding, I can't believe I've actually read every word of every post on this thread but it sure has been enlightening if not entertaining.
One thing I do want to say in regards to this quagmire is that while I don't agree with all the regs, they are the regs and they must be abided by until changed. 
Whether they are fair or not has no bearing on the fact that violators, whether they be rec or comm, are *STEALING* from our resource. You may not be robbing a bank, it is just a fish afterall, but it is still a violation of the law.
Until the regs are changed, I for one will do my darndest to abide and I would hope that everyone else would do the same.
Thanks Mont for sticking up for the fish and thanks also to the Federal guys for coming on for a meet and greet. I know ya'll didn't have to do that and appreciate the gesture.


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## Swells (Nov 27, 2007)

Crossroads said:


> JohnHumbert, please post when you are going fishing so the rest of know that all the Fed satelite surveilance, eavesdropping, and stakeouts are occupied.


Never mind the black helicopters ... they're looking for pods of YFT for Brandon and me, right? It'll be perty quiet on Channel 16, too, so don't worry, just some little cricket sounds mebbe...


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## NOAA SA 1 (Apr 18, 2009)

*Rec Fishererman caught today*

Just wanted to let you know: While Matt and I were out today on our patrol boat, we boarded a shrimper and a recreational vessel. The shrimper had no violations. The recreational fishermen had just returned from a day of fishing offshore. He had caught 2 red snapper and a red drum in federal waters. Due to the overall circumstances, Matt issued him a written warning and educated him on the use of a dehooker, venting tool an circle hooks.


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## Chase This! (Jul 20, 2007)

jeeze....day of fishing and only 2 red snapper and a redfish??? Who did you stop, that no fishing fool mwb007?

Brandon


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## Snagged (May 21, 2004)

NOAA SA 1 said:


> Just wanted to let you know: While Matt and I were out today on our patrol boat, we boarded a shrimper and a recreational vessel. The shrimper had no violations. The recreational fishermen had just returned from a day of fishing offshore. He had caught 2 red snapper and a red drum in federal waters. Due to the overall circumstances, Matt issued him a written warning and educated him on the use of a dehooker, venting tool an circle hooks.


Thank you, hope you don't need to write him up in the future.

You sure you weren't 50 and 60's beat cops? :cheers:


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## En Fuego (Jul 26, 2006)

*My 2 cents*

I will weigh in one one issue here - I know Matt on a personal level -he lives around the corner from me. He and his family have turned into pillars of the local community in a very short period of time. Although he cannot seem to keep the trees rooted well in his front yard, he absolutely lives what he preaches and he is passing that on to his kids. He is a QUALITY individual. His oldest son is a Boy Scout and plants a flag in my yard every National Holiday - GOOD kid!

As with 99% of the other LEO, I am quite sure that there are several of the laws in place that he disagrees with and HATES to enforce. But just like the endless BS babble of TPS reports I have to fill out for my boss that I hate, it is STILL part of my job and I HAVE to do it, EVEN IF I DO NOT AGREE WITH IT.

Here's the funny part - the FIRST WEEK HE WAS ON THE JOB, he boards my boat in the Galveston Jetties. After we exchanged howdy's and back slaps, he proceeded to go through my catch and my boat.

He is completely professional and fair.

HE IS ALSO A FISHERMAN WITH HIS OWN REC BOAT.

He gets just as ****** as we do about people who abuse the system,for the same reasons we do.

Again, he is a quality guy - even if he doesn't drink beer and cant keep a tree alive to save his life!


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## En Fuego (Jul 26, 2006)

I forgot to make my point. I was invited to join a fantasy football league last year. I had never met any of these guys. Come to find out, one of the long term members of the league that I met at the draft is a commercial snapper fisherman. He had nothing but bad things to say about Matt -he absolutely HATED him - his blood boiled when he talked about him - called him everything but white and human. I knew right then and there that I was right about my thoughts on Matt. The enemy of my enemy is my friend - AKA, if a comm snapper fisherman HATES this man with such a passion, then he is doing the job our tax dollars pay him to do AND I like him even more than I already did!!!


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## awesum (May 31, 2006)

NOAA SA 1 said:


> The recreational fishermen had just returned from a day of fishing offshore. He had caught 2 red snapper and a red drum in federal waters. Due to the overall circumstances, Matt issued him a written warning and educated him on the use of a dehooker, venting tool an circle hooks.


The old adage *"ignorance of the law is no excuse"* is still true here but it is surprising how many folks there are fishing out there that don't even know we have seasons, size and bag limits. Two friends of mine (husband and wife) that moved here from Oregon about three years ago fish the gulf in their 23' about 5 to 7 times a year. Back in January they showed me some pics of some very nice Red Snappers they caught the day before. I asked them where they got them and they told me at a rig about 18 - 20 miles out of Port A. When I proceeded to tell them they broke the law and explained the laws of state and federal waters they were quite embarrassed.

They didn't have a clue and are good ardent fishermen and wouldn't knowingly break the law. But they never checked the rules before going out and that's inexcusable. Now they know and won't be doing it again.


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## Levelwind (Apr 15, 2005)

NOAA SA 1 said:


> Due to the overall circumstances, Matt issued him a written warning and educated him on the use of a dehooker, venting tool an circle hooks.


Well, my hat's off to you. You're the first fed. guys I've heard of who aren't "maximum John" in every case. With any luck, the man you warned will take it to heart and know the law next time. Moreover, perhaps he'll begin to view you and other LEOs as allies in the movement to save our natural resources, and not enemies.


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## Swells (Nov 27, 2007)

I always follow the old adage, "don't get mad at the person, get mad at his or her ideas." And I'm sure Matt and the other LEOs are high quality friends who help the community all they can.

And that was hysterical about the old boy being a tree killer - I think I like him even more now!

And the boats I've been on have been boarded twice already this year, real profession folks, although I was embarrassed as heck to open the cooler showing 4 ladyfish ... well we were going to sew them up for offshore trolling bait (the officer sorta laughed). I can see them now - "don't bother with the ladyfish smoker over thar!" 

All those nice words said, I have to be frank and level with y'all: this is just another chapter in a book called "_*The Red Snapper Wars of Texas*_." Will better state and federal enforcement win the war itself? No, definitely not. In fact, it could raise it to another notch. That's the unfortunate part, since the real poachers are one step ahead of the laws and us regular folks who try to follow the rules sometimes get caught in the middle. Know what I'm saying?


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## stew1tx (Oct 15, 2004)

I would think one should be cautious advertising that. If in the case of my dad a few years ago, someone steals his hunting truck and drives off the ranch. Well if it shows up for sale and someone he knows sees it and asks him hey when did you sell your hunting truck and he replies he didn't and then hears about it. Well, I am sure they are taking precautions but if not, I would think it is a good idea to think about that side. I am sure it works out but I can see it becoming very ugly very quickly.



shanker said:


> This is true, its the same with automobiles. The ranch my dad runs has a policy that if a smuggler (drugs or wet's) is caught on the ranch and damage is done to any fences, the ranch refuses to allow the law enforcement to tow the vehicle and the ranch auctions off the vehicles with the assistance of the sheriffs department.
> 
> They can only do this if there is no lein on the vehicle and as long as it is not stolen.


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## troutomatic1488 (Jun 18, 2006)

1. one unique thing about this area is that the weather allows you to fish year round (out right lie) 2.we know for a fact there are not many productive state spots in this part of the coast(out right lie) 3.some 2 coolers constantly post way to get there gps to show they were in state waters when in fact they are in fed waters(i have not seen this mont have you seen or allowed someone to constantly post this info?) 4.there pet-peeve is lying


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## jamesgreeson (Jan 31, 2006)

*fear!*

Its the fear of the unknown rule!


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