# What is a parent to do?



## sharkchum (Feb 10, 2012)

I got a call from my son's school today telling me my son was in a fight and I needed to go pick him up. When I got there the principle told me that another kid was picking on my son all day, and by lunch time there was a group of them picking on him, one of them hit my son so he fought back in self defense. Because he fought back he is being suspended for 3 days and has to go to alternative school for 20 days, and they don't provide transportation to the alternative school so I have to take off work to take him to school and pick him up. All of this because my son stood up to a bunch of "thugs" that were picking on him. Now is it just me or is something seriously wrong with this. It seems like the school is trying to teach our kids that they should just let people walk all over them and never take up for their self. Something has to be done about this.


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## gettinspooled (Jun 26, 2013)

sharkchum said:


> I got a call from my son's school today telling me my son was in a fight and I needed to go pick him up. When I got there the principle told me that another kid was picking on my son all day, and by lunch time there was a group of them picking on him, one of them hit my son so he fought back in self defense. Because he fought back he is being suspended for 3 days and has to go to alternative school for 20 days, and they don't provide transportation to the alternative school so I have to take off work to take him to school and pick him up. All of this because my son stood up to a bunch of "thugs" that were picking on him. Now is it just me or is something seriously wrong with this. It seems like the school is trying to teach our kids that they should just let people walk all over them and never take up for their self. Something has to be done about this.


That is terrible.. They wonder why bullied kids feel defenseless.

Do you get any options to appeal their punishment? I quite certain that I'd end up taking my kid out of the school if I had this problem.


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## Zeitgeist (Nov 10, 2011)

Have a serious face to face meeting with the principle. This is BS.


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## FINNFOWLER (Sep 2, 2004)

I think that is BS! Your son should have NO repercussions for defending himself. :headknock


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## mas360 (Nov 21, 2006)

That is very familiar story. My son was in same scenario except that he did not fight back. I asked him why and he told me if he did the punishment would be against him, not the other boys. I went in and had a conference with school officials and was told exactly that. I was at a loss of words. Thankfully there was a teacher who somehow was sympathetic to his situation and kept an eye out for him. She facilitated a parents meeting. That helped a lot but did not fully fixed the issue. To this day I am grateful to that teacher. 
Perhaps you can ask the school principal to facilitate a parent meeting. It may help the situation.


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## Zeitgeist (Nov 10, 2011)

Demand that he not be sent to the alternative school!


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## lite-liner (Mar 15, 2005)

welcome to the new normal.
one of my kids narrowly averted juvenile detention after being charged with a "hate crime" for scribbling on a bathroom wall....no BS!!! not even hateful stuff.
6 weeks of basically the same thing. Pretty excessive.


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## omgidk (Nov 5, 2010)

Interesting.... What did the other kids who they obviously know who they were get for picking on him, if it happen as you describe. 

I would try and appeal it and fight it, don't let them be the judge and jury on actions. I had my troubles in school but that seems to be excessive.


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## DCAVA (Aug 5, 2013)

Superintendent meeting sharkchum, gotta go over the principal's head on this one....


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## gm (Jun 26, 2004)

I agree, meet with the principal in person and insist it is unfair punishment. I'd even go so far as to tell him/her point blank, I'd have no hesitation in going to news channels and social media. I guarantee it would get some attention.


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## Trailer Rig (Jul 25, 2011)

Pat him on the back for not letting a group of thugs push him around, then let him know there are quite a few of us that know the system is wrong.


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## elgatogus (Oct 27, 2010)

DCAVA said:


> Superintendent meeting sharkchum, gotta go over the principal's head on this one....


Yup... That's what I would do. Total BS!! Make sure you tell your son he did NOTHING wrong with defending himself.. I hope he wupped them boyz!


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## webfisher3 (Jul 27, 2007)

Very sad indeed! Just some stupid arse rule to take liability off the school. Zero tolerance = zero intelligence. Have the principle to set up a meeting wi9th the other parents to resolve the issue. Also, write your state representative to voice your displeasure on zero tolerance policies.


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## 98aggie77566 (Jul 7, 2009)

I would be parked in the Superintendent's office.....and in front of the school board.

Stand up for your kiddo...even if you lose, he will respect you and it will show that you have his back.


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## spuds (Jan 2, 2005)

When my son was in early grade school I put him into a Judo school. He even participated in the Junior Olympics. In case you don't know, Judo is more like grappling or wrestling, not really punching and hitting, which can get you into trouble in school. 

One time, one of his little buddies was being picked on by the school bully. My son told me he waited for the right moment, then grabbed the bully and slammed him to the ground so quick that no one really realized what happened and knocked the breath out of the bully. He said he went on about his business and none of the other kids told the teachers any different. It wasn't a fight, no punches were thrown. But the bully stopped picking on kids, tried to befriend the other kids and became a different person.

Even if there isn't a place to learn Judo, there are many benefits for kids learning any Martial Arts system. It teaches self confidence and self respect, focus and stillness, it teaches how to take and avoid a hit, it teaches conflict resolution, but most importantly your child will just be healthier. 

It has been shown that higher grades are usually a result of martial art training also.


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## pocjetty (Sep 12, 2014)

sharkchum said:


> It seems like the school is trying to teach our kids that they should just let people walk all over them and never take up for their self. Something has to be done about this.


 That is exactly what they are trying to teach the kids.

If you read the books these people write, they don't even try to hide it. Accuse them of it (exactly what they, themselves write), and they call you a conspiracy theorist. People don't want to be ridiculed, so they mostly remain silent.

If you haven't taken the time to actually read anything by Bill Ayers, Cass Sunnstein, Cloward and Piven, or Saul Alinsky, you really should. Read it in their own words, and there's no mystery nor doubt about what is going on here.

Your son, unfortunately, is a sacrificial lamb. He is one of the examples they hold up in front of the others, to make sure they know the penalty for standing up. The lesson, you can be sure, will not go unnoticed.


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## Grumpy365 (Oct 21, 2010)

I'd contact a lawyer and have him write a letter notifying the school district that you are prepared to file suit based on the district depriving your child of an appropriate education for defending himself and that the press will be informed of the pending litigation.


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## ChuChu (Jan 23, 2010)

This is a time to go to a school board meeting and say your piece.


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## Spirit (Nov 19, 2008)

Bite the bullet and pay for private school or at least homeschool. Public school are no place for a child to be these days. My son was the victim of bullying almost 20 years ago and after hours and hours at the principals office I figured out the schools like turning a blind eye ... it keeps them from having to fix the problem. The school has this asinine philosophy that no matter how battered and bloody or shredded their clothing is -- the condition my son was in the last day he attended attended public school -- if a teacher doesn't see it, it didn't happen and they stand on not doing a darn thing to the kids that do it. No way would I let someone I remotely care about, much less love, step foot inside a school house ever again. 

I hope you have better luck getting something done than I did.


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## MikeS2942 (Mar 5, 2010)

I would let him take it and them drive him to each one of their houses so he can kick their rear one at a time. Take video and post it on the web for all the teachers to see


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## whitepv (Sep 26, 2006)

Pull him out and put him in a private school. When you pay, the principal will listen because you will have his attention. The public schools are simply a social system and social systems have no effectiveness in society.


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## ibtbone (Oct 7, 2013)

elgatogus said:


> Yup... That's what I would do. Total BS!! Make sure you tell your son he did NOTHING wrong with defending himself.. I hope he wupped them boyz!


x4
principal can only follow his rules, as wrong as they are


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## sharkchum (Feb 10, 2012)

I just got off the phone with the Assistant Superintendent, I have a meeting with him at 2:30 tomorrow. I can understand their zero tolerance policy, but this is total B.S. There is no way I can tell my son to just sit there and let someone hit him. This is the second time this has happen and I'm sick of it.The first time they gave him a ticket and we had to go to court. They judge dismissed it because it was self defense but I still had to jump through all the hoops. This time they didn't write any tickets because they said it was "mutual combat", but I'm being punished for it. I'm gonna end up wasting all my vacation time taking my son back and forth to school because he stood up for himself. I'm all for kids being punished when they do something wrong, but they need to punish the kids and not the parents. This country has been going down hill for a long time while we all sit here and watch, but I've had just about enough. If enough people stand together there has to be something we can do to change it. It's not just this school, they all have the same stupid policies, and they are wrong. I'm gonna fight this with everything I have, but I don't think it will get me anywhere. If anyone has any suggestions I would like to hear them.


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## fangard (Apr 18, 2008)

Spirit said:


> Bite the bullet and pay for private school or at least homeschool. * Public school are no place for a child to be these days.* My son was the victim of bullying almost 20 years ago and after hours and hours at the principals office I figured out the schools like turning a blind eye ... it keeps them from having to fix the problem. The school has this asinine philosophy that no matter how battered and bloody or shredded their clothing is -- the condition my son was in the last day he attended attended public school -- if a teacher doesn't see it, it didn't happen and they stand on not doing a darn thing to the kids that do it. No way would I let someone I remotely care about, much less love, step foot inside a school house ever again.
> 
> I hope you have better luck getting something done than I did.


Incredibly broad and ill-informed statement.


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## RedXCross (Aug 7, 2005)

Stay firm, about your position and demand your son be sent back to regular class. State your case and be civil and do not take a backward stance on THIS particular instance. He will release him. All my best



sharkchum said:


> I just got off the phone with the Assistant Superintendent, I have a meeting with him at 2:30 tomorrow. I can understand their zero tolerance policy, but this is total B.S. There is no way I can tell my son to just sit there and let someone hit him. This is the second time this has happen and I'm sick of it.The first time they gave him a ticket and we had to go to court. They judge dismissed it because it was self defense but I still had to jump through all the hoops. This time they didn't write any tickets because they said it was "mutual combat", but I'm being punished for it. I'm gonna end up wasting all my vacation time taking my son back and forth to school because he stood up for himself. I'm all for kids being punished when they do something wrong, but they need to punish the kids and not the parents. This country has been going down hill for a long time while we all sit here and watch, but I've had just about enough. If enough people stand together there has to be something we can do to change it. It's not just this school, they all have the same stupid policies, and they are wrong. I'm gonna fight this with everything I have, but I don't think it will get me anywhere. If anyone has any suggestions I would like to hear them.


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## rubberducky (Mar 19, 2010)

Sharkchum I would be far from just upset. I would be up that school boards rear end. I haven't had to deal with this with my daughter yet but did have to deal with it when I was in school. Pretty much same story and my dad talked to the superintendent. The superintendent latter came and pulled me out of class to apologize in person. 
James


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## Zeitgeist (Nov 10, 2011)

sharkchum said:


> I'm gonna end up wasting all my vacation time taking my son back and forth to school because he stood up for himself.


John, I can take him to school a couple of times a week when I head to the office.


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## Deany45 (Jul 24, 2011)

Same thing happened to me 20 years ago. Wouldn't call it bullying but a couple thugs picked a fight with me and I stood my ground (pretty well I might add). Anyway, I go a week in school suspension which sucked big time. My dad had the meeting with the principal and nothing came of it. After the semester was over, it was back to Catholic school for me where is spent the rest of my junior high and high school days. It isn't fair, but they don't use common sense and have that zero tolerance junk. Good luck is all I can say and tell your boy he did the right thing and always stand up for himself when there are no other options!


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## sharkchum (Feb 10, 2012)

There is even more mistakes this school has made. With all the mental problems my son has he is supposed to be classified as 504, for those that don't know, 504 is for kids with problems that need to be handled different. I told the principal months ago that we needed to set up a 504 meeting to discuss my son's problems, and they still haven't done it. I'm hoping to use this as leverage tomorrow. As far as lawyers and private schools go, I just don't have the money or I would do it in a heart beat. My wife is a teacher, so I know a little about how the school system works, and it's nothing like it use to be.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Just doesent pass the "smell test". Just not right..


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## ElmerFudd (Feb 10, 2006)

*Zero Thoughts*

Had a similar situation with my oldest boy a few years back. He defended himself after being punched, teacher saw it and did nothing, and kid punched him again. He punched the kid back, and the school wanted to suspend him for 3 days, with rest of semester in ISS (In School Suspension). This was 2 weeks into the semester I think. Set up time to see principal, AP, councilor, and the teacher that witnessed it. They "toed" the line about fighting, etc., asked what about the other kid and no punishment for fighting with their "zero tolerance" program, was informed that the kid was in a program for anger issues and that they could not discuss it with me. Asked about options for reduction of punishment as it didn't fit the "crime", was told I had no choice or options in the matter. So I said no problem, I wish to un-enroll my kid from their programs, as I didn't feel that they could protect my son from the dangerous children on campus, and that I would be talking to the news and paper later that evening to discuss the situation. Their first reaction was to tell me I can't, state laws, etc. I told them I know the laws regarding compulsory attendance, and I refused to discuss any thing else with them for @ 5 min, any time they asked me a question I just asked do you have the withdrawal forms ready...
After the 5 min their attitude changed, the ISS was dropped, but he still had to take the 3 days suspension. Had a talk with my son about standing up for himself, consequences of actions, etc... And we went fishing for 2 days.

Few years later had a few incidents with a teacher and councilor regarding my daughter. Seemed like the teacher liked to take a particular interest in what my daughter was wearing each day (he would track her down in the morning to see what she was wearing, and send her to the office if he didnâ€™t think it was ok, he was her afternoon teacher). The councilor would then send my daughter home to change, but not before giving her a lecture on clothing, holding hands with her BF, etc... My daughter is pretty modest, and after 2 meetings with the P, AP, Councilor, and teacher where I pointed out the outfits the other girls were wearing (that left nothing to the imagination), I simply pointed out that I think the teacher and councilor had an unhealthy interest in my daughters activities, and that maybe I was talking to the wrong people to fix an issue with the staff. All of the sudden, there were no more issues with my daughter wearing tights under her shorts anymore.....

Stand your ground, be prepared to back up your actions with the school, and brush up on your buzzwords that they like to use, lol. Pretty sure that zero tolerance policies were designed for people that don't have enough sense to make a judgment call in the first place.


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## bigpun91 (Oct 2, 2005)

I stood up for a friend in 6th grade. Got a knife pulled on me. Because I "started it" by standing up to them, I got 6 days of guidance center and the knife wielder got 3.


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## sharkchum (Feb 10, 2012)

elgatogus said:


> Yup... That's what I would do. Total BS!! Make sure you tell your son he did NOTHING wrong with defending himself.. I hope he wupped them boyz!


 My son's knuckles are bruised and he had a red mark on his cheek, but I think he's ok. I'm not sure about the other kid, his face was covered with ice packs when I got there.lol. I hope they learned a lesson, don't mess with the little white boy just because he wheres glasses and dresses like a dork, he also weighs 190lbs, all muscle, and works out 3 hours a day because he wants to be a MMA fighter.


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## ByGodTx (Sep 15, 2010)

Grumpy365 said:


> I'd contact a lawyer and have him write a letter notifying the school district that you are prepared to file suit based on the district depriving your child of an appropriate education for defending himself and that the press will be informed of the pending litigation.


The press are the same moonbats as the school staff. They march to the same drummer.


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## muney pit (Mar 24, 2014)

Schools dont care anymore. Im surprised your kid didnt get a ticket and have to go to court. Mine did.


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## BullyARed (Jun 19, 2010)

The principle must be a former bully! and the principle didn't call SWAT, FBI, and Homeland Security! So sad, the school system here turns into a police state. Kids always fight. This kind of punishment is totally stupid and irresponsible. Just make the kids salute the flag for 30 minutes for five days and let it go. Why they couldn't produce an anti-bully video and make the kids watch it.


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## jesco (Jun 23, 2013)

I have been teaching for 13 years now in one of the roughest schools in Houston. I wish our district was as tough on fighting in school as your son's district. That being said, I am glad you went to the super of the district. The fact that the school admits that your son was being picked on to the point of violence infuriates me. However...
Schools are almost helpless to stop most bullying. It is up to parents to teach their children how to be citizens. It's hard enough for teachers to teach the curriculum. In other words, don't be hesitant to take legal action against the bullies. I wish more parents took these matters to court. That would end the immediate problem quickly. 
That being said, there comes a time when a young man (or lady) must take action to protect themselves. There will be a consequence from the school. But at some point it becomes "worth it" to take the punishment and end the bullying. And as Spuds said, Judo is a great sport and very practical self defense without throwing a punch. I have been competing and teaching grappling for about 20 years now. Perhaps your son could use some (free) lessons on inflicting horrible pain without leaving any marks (ie evidence) on the adversary??
Sorry for the long post.


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

Since you have already contacted the assistant superintendent and set up a meeting, I would also request the principal be there. Evidently if the principal told you a kid was picking on your kid all day, he was aware of the situation and did nothing to resolve it. I would want to know why, and why, if he knew that was the case, was you kid handed that punishment. I would also find out if any teachers were aware of it or witnessed it. If so, I would want them there also. If you do not get satisfaction, I would tell all in the meeting that I would be contacting the school board.


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## jesco (Jun 23, 2013)

ByGodTx said:


> The press are the same moonbats as the school staff. They march to the same drummer.


 Not all of us sir. Some of us are as frustrated as the rest of you about what goes on in our school system. The private sector is always calling me back, but I know I make a difference, small as that may be. Please give some thought to the fact that there are good people in education, and if the "system" were a little more sensible, there would be a lot more of us involved in education.


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## ksk (Aug 9, 2008)

*Fight/Assault*

Now a retired AP [34 years] I handled 100's of cases like yours.Before your meeting tomorrow,get a hold of the Code of Conduct of your district.Somewhere in there,there should be the definitions of assault and fights.If your son stood his ground and was hit first and defended himself,that is an assault.If both boys faced off to each other,words were exchanged and a punches were exchanged,that is a fight.Every student has the right to defend himself[to certain limits].One can defend themselves by hitting back,but if one knocks the aggressor to the ground and then continues to beat the tar out of him,the case weakens.I'm sure the AP told you that your son should have gone to a teacher,counselor,coach,any adult to tell them that he was being bullied.Bullies usually pick on others when there are no adults/cameras near.It sounds like you/son have a strong case for defending himself.Go to your meeting and be calm as possible.It sounds like you need to go through the chain of command,before you meet with the Superintendent .You may end up in front of the School Board.In the mean time your son must do his time,suspension/alternative school.Most districts have a system set up where as the student/parent can appeal the punishment in front of a committee [usually two administrators that do not know you or your son].At the appeal,your son gets to tell the committee what happened that day.Take with you,your son's report card,teacher remarks about your son,your son's discipline records[if he has any],remarks from his coach/PE teachers. In.In other words,show the committee that your son has good character.The school will be represented [usually] by the assigning AP.I sat on many appeal cases.I would say we over turned 75% of them in favor of the student.By the way,if your thinking about with drawing your son and putting him in another district,his records follow him and he would have to do the punishment there.The best of luck! Keep us informed.


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## jesco (Jun 23, 2013)

ksk said:


> Now a retired AP [34 years] I handled 100's of cases like yours.Before your meeting tomorrow,get a hold of the Code of Conduct of your district.Somewhere in there,there should be the definitions of assault and fights.If your son stood his ground and was hit first and defended himself,that is an assault.If both boys faced off to each other,words were exchanged and a punches were exchanged,that is a fight.Every student has the right to defend himself[to certain limits].One can defend themselves by hitting back,but if one knocks the aggressor to the ground and then continues to beat the tar out of him,the case weakens.I'm sure the AP told you that your son should have gone to a teacher,counselor,coach,any adult to tell them that he was being bullied.Bullies usually pick on others when there are no adults/cameras near.It sounds like you/son have a strong case for defending himself.Go to your meeting and be calm as possible.It sounds like you need to go through the chain of command,before you meet with the Superintendent .You may end up in front of the School Board.In the mean time your son must do his time,suspension/alternative school.Most districts have a system set up where as the student/parent can appeal the punishment in front of a committee [usually two administrators that do not know you or your son].At the appeal,your son gets to tell the committee what happened that day.Take with you,your son's report card,teacher remarks about your son,your son's discipline records[if he has any],remarks from his coach/PE teachers. In.In other words,show the committee that your son has good character.The school will be represented [usually] by the assigning AP.I sat on many appeal cases.I would say we over turned 75% of them in favor of the student.By the way,if your thinking about with drawing your son and putting him in another district,his records follow him and he would have to do the punishment there.The best of luck! Keep us informed.


Excellent advice!


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## SeaY'all (Jul 14, 2011)

Chum,
I was in a situation like that with mine. It wasnt a group of kids but, only one. The boy kept saying things about his momma. I made him give the kid two warnings. After that I said whoop his arse. I will have your back. As long as your boy is justified in your eyes and he is defending himself, let him use their face to beat up on his fist.


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## sharkchum (Feb 10, 2012)

ksk said:


> Now a retired AP [34 years] I handled 100's of cases like yours.Before your meeting tomorrow,get a hold of the Code of Conduct of your district.Somewhere in there,there should be the definitions of assault and fights.If your son stood his ground and was hit first and defended himself,that is an assault.If both boys faced off to each other,words were exchanged and a punches were exchanged,that is a fight.Every student has the right to defend himself[to certain limits].One can defend themselves by hitting back,but if one knocks the aggressor to the ground and then continues to beat the tar out of him,the case weakens.I'm sure the AP told you that your son should have gone to a teacher,counselor,coach,any adult to tell them that he was being bullied.Bullies usually pick on others when there are no adults/cameras near.It sounds like you/son have a strong case for defending himself.Go to your meeting and be calm as possible.It sounds like you need to go through the chain of command,before you meet with the Superintendent .You may end up in front of the School Board.In the mean time your son must do his time,suspension/alternative school.Most districts have a system set up where as the student/parent can appeal the punishment in front of a committee [usually two administrators that do not know you or your son].At the appeal,your son gets to tell the committee what happened that day.Take with you,your son's report card,teacher remarks about your son,your son's discipline records[if he has any],remarks from his coach/PE teachers. In.In other words,show the committee that your son has good character.The school will be represented [usually] by the assigning AP.I sat on many appeal cases.I would say we over turned 75% of them in favor of the student.By the way,if your thinking about with drawing your son and putting him in another district,his records follow him and he would have to do the punishment there.The best of luck! Keep us informed.


This sounds like good advice,thanks. If I can stay calm I think I will do alright. I already had it out with the assistant principle and principle on the phone before I picked my son up. I must have rattled them pretty good because they had 3 Galveston County sheriff's waiting on me when I got there to keep the peace. That's why I'm going over their heads, their minds are closed and they wont listen to reason.


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## pocjetty (Sep 12, 2014)

jesco said:


> I have been teaching for 13 years now in one of the roughest schools in Houston. *I wish our district was as tough on fighting in school as your son's district.* That being said, I am glad you went to the super of the district. The fact that the school admits that your son was being picked on to the point of violence infuriates me. However...
> *Schools are almost helpless to stop most bullying*. It is up to parents to teach their children how to be citizens. It's hard enough for teachers to teach the curriculum. In other words, don't be hesitant to take legal action against the bullies. I wish more parents took these matters to court. That would end the immediate problem quickly.
> *That being said, there comes a time when a young man (or lady) must take action to protect themselves. There will be a consequence from the school. But at some point it becomes "worth it" to take the punishment and end the bullying.* And as Spuds said, Judo is a great sport and very practical self defense without throwing a punch. I have been competing and teaching grappling for about 20 years now. Perhaps your son could use some (free) lessons on inflicting horrible pain without leaving any marks (ie evidence) on the adversary??
> Sorry for the long post.


 I know you take pride in what you do, and I believe that you are one of the "good guys". So I really do want to do this gently. But... have a look at 
what you said above.

You seem to have accepted the fact that there WILL be a consequence for standing up for yourself in a school. You may not like this, but what you are telling this parent is that the child either has to take a beating from the bully, or take another kind of beating from the school. That's not much of a choice, is it? Take your lumps, or stand up for yourself and... take your lumps.

You, yourself say that "schools are almost helpless to stop bullying". And we've established that self-defense will get you punished. So when someone like Spirit says, "Public school are no place for a child to be these days", I find it really hard to disagree with her. And when you snark back and tell her that hers is an "ill informed statement" you don't help your case much. I agree with her, based on YOUR words, and you are one of the good guys.

You say that kids must face "consequences" for standing up to a bully? My question to you is, "Why?" Why are you powerless to stop bullies? (Your words.) My guess is, if YOU stood up to the zero-tolerance administration, there would be consequences for you. So you don't. Seems to me the system is doing exactly what is intended.

My next question is, "What would happen if a whole bunch of you teachers decided that it was 'worth it to take the punishment and end the bullying'?" How do you expect the kids to learn how to be "good citizens", when the only example they see, day after day, is the law of the jungle and CYA?

Sorry if that's harsh. But telling people they shouldn't feel the way they do isn't the answer. And that's what the teachers' unions have been doing to us for decades. They say, "You're wrong, we're right, and that's it."


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## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

My father usually took a day or so off work and depending on the time of the year we went fishing or hunting while I was suspended. Then go back and do what we called S.A.C.K for the determined time frame. Only took a couple of time before everyone knew I was going to fight back each time. The one time I was in the wrong and started the fight and got suspended I had to shovel horse **** out of my grandfathers barn for three days. Never again have I started a fight.


Good luck and hope it all works out


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## Zeitgeist (Nov 10, 2011)

pocjetty said:


> You, yourself say that "schools are almost helpless to stop bullying". And we've established that self-defense will get you punished. So when someone like Spirit says, "Public school are no place for a child to be these days", I find it really hard to disagree with her. And when you snark back and tell her that hers is an "ill informed statement" you don't help your case much.


 LOL, it was Fanguard that said that.


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## sharkchum (Feb 10, 2012)

Jolly Roger said:


> My father usually took a day or so off work and depending on the time of the year we went fishing or hunting while I was suspended. Then go back and do what we called S.A.C.K for the determined time frame. Only took a couple of time before everyone knew I was going to fight back each time. The one time I was in the wrong and started the fight and got suspended I had to shovel horse **** out of my grandfathers barn for three days. Never again have I started a fight.
> 
> Good luck and hope it all works out


That's the way it was when I was in school. One time my dad was so mad because he had to leave work to pick me up for fighting, he made me move 1000 bales of hay from one side of the barn to the other, than the next day after I was done he took me camping at San Louis pass for 3 days. The schools ain't like that no more. The principle told me that if I refuse to take my son to the alternative school they will file charges on me, for what I don't know,but I'm sure I'll find out soon enough.


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## pocjetty (Sep 12, 2014)

Zeitgeist said:


> LOL, it was Fanguard that said that.


 Thanks for the research. My mistake.

I'll stand pat with the rest. A place that can't do anything about bullies, and punishes you for defending yourself doesn't sound like a place I want to visit - much less be forced to go every day for years.


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## gater (May 25, 2004)

*Bully*



Zeitgeist said:


> Have a serious face to face meeting with the principle. This is BS.


I agree, especially since theybwerecaware of it. I would think they, the school, would be liable if the bullies actually hurt the boy.


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## bearwhiz (Jan 30, 2011)

Many years ago my stepson was being bullied by a group of hispanics at his school. Keep in mind that Rob was 6'2 and 235 lbs. He was a starting defensive tackle. I made sure the coaches and administration knew of what was going on. I always let him know how much trouble he would be in if he started trouble at school. One day a group of hispanics surrounded him near the commons during lunch. One of the hisps. sucker punched Rob in the mouth splitting his lip. Rob, with one hand grabbed the guy by the throat, lifted him up and slammed against the wall. The kid slid down the wall unconscious. Luckily a coach saw what happened and got to Rob before the security guard did. I was called and took Rob to the ER for his lip. The whole altercation was caught on security cameras. The hisp kid was filed on for Class A Assault and was taken to jail after a trip to the hospital by ambulance. Rob was suspended for defending himself. The coach defended him to the end. Rob had 3 miserable days having to put with me while on day one we fished, day two we checked out a new hunting lease. Day three was the worst, we mowed the grass. The other kid was on probation and being 17 was given 3 months in the county jail. I forgot to mention that when I took Rob to the ER the doc told him he could give him a shot to deaden the wound while he sewed it up which would hurt like hell, or he could just stitch it with three stitches and be done. That boy was tough.


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## jesco (Jun 23, 2013)

pocjetty, I stand by my assertion that there is little schools can do about bullying that occurs outside of school. I should have made that part clear. On campus, I believe that by maintaining orderly hallways and cafeteria environments, we can keep opportunities for bullying and altercations to a minimum. 
However, one reason there is bullying (I am not talking about isolated scuffles that are quickly resolved) is that many parents expect the school system to raise their children. If a parent faced legal consequences for their childrens misdeeds, (ie bullying)they might teach their children to behave and leave other people alone. 
I believe that in life there are consequences for our actions, and the sooner that is learned the better. There are consequences for fighting, and there are consequences for letting yourself be pushed around. I believe the OP's son made the right choice. If it were up to me, I would not punish someone for standing up for themselves. But that is not up to me. I am just a teacher. If more parents made more of a fuss about what is going on in our schools, perhaps more sensible policies would be enacted.
To the OP, I believe that if you present your case to the area super, your son's punishment will be greatly reduced. I would bet on it. But keep your cool: he probably gets yelled at in a lot of these meetings, and would appreciate a level headed discussion a lot more.


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## jtbailey (Apr 29, 2012)

Same exact same thing happened to me when I was a kid.... All I know was my dad went up to the principles office and heard him down the hall... had suspension removed and only went to ISS 1 day.
I know times are much different now days, but I PROMISE you that school administration would remember me forever


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## cman (Apr 17, 2009)

If I could not afford the $500 to schedule an appointment when my attorney could be there, I would:

Stealthily ring a recorder in your pocket or attache case. (radie shack or wallmart $40)
Be calm. 
Get their version on recorder if in fact they admit your son was bullied for the entire day. 
Then I'd stop the meeting and say you want to reschedule the meeting while the police were there. I have a great relationship with Harris County Constables Office. They've been there for me on other issues. I'm sure they'd send a constable to discuss one's rights to self defence. (or whatever local law enforcement you have) 

Good luck brother. Sometimes you can't afford an attorney. Sometimes you can't afford not to have an attorney.


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## pocjetty (Sep 12, 2014)

jesco said:


> pocjetty, I stand by my assertion that there is little schools can do about bullying that occurs outside of school. I should have made that part clear. On campus, I believe that by maintaining orderly hallways and cafeteria environments, we can keep opportunities for bullying and altercations to a minimum.
> However, one reason there is bullying (I am not talking about isolated scuffles that are quickly resolved) is that many parents expect the school system to raise their children. If a parent faced legal consequences for their childrens misdeeds, (ie bullying)they might teach their children to behave and leave other people alone.
> I believe that in life there are consequences for our actions, and the sooner that is learned the better. There are consequences for fighting, and there are consequences for letting yourself be pushed around. I believe the OP's son made the right choice. If it were up to me, I would not punish someone for standing up for themselves. But that is not up to me. I am just a teacher. If more parents made more of a fuss about what is going on in our schools, perhaps more sensible policies would be enacted.
> To the OP, I believe that if you present your case to the area super, your son's punishment will be greatly reduced. I would bet on it. But keep your cool: he probably gets yelled at in a lot of these meetings, and would appreciate a level headed discussion a lot more.


 I think I was right, and you really are one of the good guys. Much as I hate to say it, I think you're in the minority in our schools. For what it's worth, my dad was part of a large family. Almost all of them were teachers. My dad became a university professor, so that doesn't count. I had an uncle who was a superintendent here in Texas, and he was a sensible guy. The rest I basically disowned - largely because of this kind of stuff. Maybe I projected some of my disgust with them toward you.

Here's the problem. For kids who really are "good citizens", getting suspended and bad things in their permanent record is a really bad thing. It's something that shouldn't be done to a kid, without a really good reason. The kids who already have juvenile records in middle school? They don't care. So it's not really a punishment for them. So a kid who constantly bullies gets by with it, until another kid finally stands up to him/her. Then "zero tolerance" kicks in. The troublemaker gets a punishment he laughs at, while the one who defended himself gets his life seriously damaged. It's not even close to justice.

My bigger complaint is that so few teachers were willing to stand up and be counted, when this stuff started. If they had, maybe you wouldn't feel powerless to stop bullying today. I don't know you, what you do, what you don't do. But I'm still going to ask you a question - for yourself, not for an answer to me:

You accept that kids sometimes have to take the bad consequences, and stand up for themselves. Have you ever taken similar bad consequences, standing up for one of them? I mean faced suspension, like they do? Maybe you have. But it seems to me that, most of the time, these young people are standing alone, in a system where they are utterly powerless.

A system like that is a breeding ground for bad guys.


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## RedSky (May 15, 2010)

Grumpy365 said:


> I'd contact a lawyer and have him write a letter notifying the school district that you are prepared to file suit based on the district depriving your child of an appropriate education for defending himself and that the press will be informed of the pending litigation.


I'd do the above and let the Superintendent know in uncertain terms I'd also be filing civil proceedings on the school/principal/teacher/admin for negligent supervision and failing to adequately protect my kid.


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## jesco (Jun 23, 2013)

pocjetty said:


> I think I was right, and you really are one of the good guys. Much as I hate to say it, I think you're in the minority in our schools. For what it's worth, my dad was part of a large family. Almost all of them were teachers. My dad became a university professor, so that doesn't count. I had an uncle who was a superintendent here in Texas, and he was a sensible guy. The rest I basically disowned - largely because of this kind of stuff. Maybe I projected some of my disgust with them toward you.
> 
> Here's the problem. For kids who really are "good citizens", getting suspended and bad things in their permanent record is a really bad thing. It's something that shouldn't be done to a kid, without a really good reason. The kids who already have juvenile records in middle school? They don't care. So it's not really a punishment for them. So a kid who constantly bullies gets by with it, until another kid finally stands up to him/her. Then "zero tolerance" kicks in. The troublemaker gets a punishment he laughs at, while the one who defended himself gets his life seriously damaged. It's not even close to justice.
> 
> ...


pocjetty, I have taken some heat for standing up to the "system" for a similar incident. One of my students was being picked on ruthlessly. He fought back one day, and I didn't report the incident. The bully's parents complained that I didn't report the fight (which their kid lost). I could have lost my job, and my teaching certificate. I don't feel that defending yourself should lead to punishment, but teachers don't make the rules. It's tough being a conservative man in a profession dominated by way left liberals! I run a tight ship in my classroom and in the hallways, but the system and the rules seem to be stacked up against common sense and real world values.. I am there for the students, not the administration. But like in all workplaces, there are rules and I must operate within them.


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## sotexhookset (Jun 4, 2011)

I don't have any children (wife and I can't) but have raised her 11 yo niece for the last year but I am far from being a qualified parent to totally understand your pain. I'll pray for your son and your family. With that being said I apologize in advance for my statement, which is I hope like hell he got a couple of good licks in. Being bullied is a real problem and it was when we were young as well. Not so much myself but I saw it often and I was the guy that would stop it if I knew either person or not. If kept me from meeting new or being popular or not at a new school, I didn't care. Not cool. I did it through high school and at a new, much bigger school as a transplant and got into some drag outs over it. Especially the "slower" class kids that couldn't help it. I made some good friends at the time on both sides of it. My two younger sisters did the same and they were probably tougher than me. Lol. Its how we were raised. I hope those punks doing it get fit punishment from the school but especially their folks. I know I would've got an *** whoopin if my Pops thought I was one that was bullying another kid.


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## iamatt (Aug 28, 2012)

Meanwhile in China they are doing long division in the first grade....


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## txteltech (Jul 6, 2012)

Sharkchum stand your ground if your son was just defending himself and use the the 504 counseling or lack of as a good leverage your son should be restored back to normal school if the superintendent has any good reasoning!!!!


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## My Little Big boat (Apr 24, 2012)

I am just curious... 
Am I the only one that believes this all got out of hand when they quit letting the teachers discipline the kids??? I remember making the paddles in shop class for the teachers!

My daughter was telling me about 2 girls in her class today who would not be quite, and when asked by the teacher to separate they refused and told the teacher she can't make them, and that she can't do anything... The teacher had to have the principle come remove them from the class. 

Sharkchum, I hope it all works out for you, just try to keep your cool. You don't wanta get in trouble to!


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## joe h (Jul 3, 2012)

shaggydog said:


> Since you have already contacted the assistant superintendent and set up a meeting, I would also request the principal be there. Evidently if the principal told you a kid was picking on your kid all day, he was aware of the situation and did nothing to resolve it. I would want to know why, and why, if he knew that was the case, was you kid handed that punishment. I would also find out if any teachers were aware of it or witnessed it. If so, I would want them there also. If you do not get satisfaction, I would tell all in the meeting that I would be contacting the school board.


This x 1000


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## mercenarymedic2105 (Jun 8, 2011)

fangard said:


> Incredibly *accurate *and *honest *statement.


Fixed that for you


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## devil1824 (Sep 4, 2010)

Been there, done that. Twice. Both times the principal said Hunter was defending himself. The coaches don't punish him and we don't punish him. The kids know the rules.


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## okmajek (May 29, 2012)

Call channel 13


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## "The Marshall" (Jan 12, 2005)

gm said:


> I agree, meet with the principal in person and insist it is unfair punishment. I'd even go so far as to tell him/her point blank, I'd have no hesitation in going to news channels and social media. I guarantee it would get some attention.


X2 .. nothing a principle would hate more than negative publicity on the local news and letters from lawyers


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## sharkchum (Feb 10, 2012)

I learned long ago that making idle threats with the news media or lawyers will only get you so far. Sometime they will fold and other times they call your bluff. It's kind of like dealing with Grizzly bears, sometimes you can stand up tall and wave your arms and yell and the bear will run off, sometimes the bear will eat you. I prefer to roll up in a ball and play dead, than when the bear gets close, pull out my Ruger Alaskan in 454 Casull and put 6 400 grain slugs in his head. Only this time my gun and ammo is the emails from the principal from back in October when she said she was going to set up a 504 meeting with me about my son and never did.


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## MarkU (Jun 3, 2013)

Can you not have assault charges filed on the aggressor? That is what I would demand. Assault, is assault. The school can not dismiss state law. My best friend, had to do this. When his son was being bullied, and then assaulted. Come to find out, the punk was already on thin ice. And was taken out of the school system. And put in some other place. This was last year, in Richardson ISD.

I'd get the police involved. If you've got to lose your vacation. The other parent needs to lose some, and some money as well.


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## mas360 (Nov 21, 2006)

MarkU said:


> Can you not have assault charges filed on the aggressor? That is what I would demand. Assault, is assault. The school can not dismiss state law. My best friend, had to do this. When his son was being bullied, and then assaulted. Come to find out, the punk was already on thin ice. And was taken out of the school system. And put in some other place. This was last year, in Richardson ISD.
> 
> *I'd get the police involved. If you've got to lose your vacation. The other parent needs to lose some, and some money as well*.


It is unfortunate but that is likely the last effective resort provided the police does not brush it off as "kids are kids".


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## Blk Jck 224 (Oct 16, 2009)

MarkU said:


> I'd get the police involved.
> 
> Could have sworn the OP cited there were three GCSD there when he arrived to pick up his son.


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## sharkchum (Feb 10, 2012)

Blk Jck 224 said:


> MarkU said:
> 
> 
> > I'd get the police involved.
> ...


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## fangard (Apr 18, 2008)

mercenarymedic2105 said:


> Fixed that for you


No you didn't. I stand by what I said. Mind your own business and create your own posts instead of editing others.


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## surfnturf (Aug 9, 2012)

sharkchum said:


> Blk Jck 224 said:
> 
> 
> > The police were there to stop me, I kind of flew off the handle when I was on the phone with the assistant principle and called him the the old word for brazil nut, than he put the principle on the phone and I called her a stupid female dog in heat and she hung up on me. I don't think the cop's would file charge's on the other kid anyway, he was black, and if the cop's filed charges on him that would be raciest.
> ...


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## Solodaddio (Mar 22, 2014)

Keep your cool man. I couldn't imagine how I'd react onece my kids are older. Picking up my children and hearing stories about the bullies at their young ages is upsetting enough.It's tough to counterbalance, I want my kiddos to be tough as nails but be valedictorian at the same time.


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## pocjetty (Sep 12, 2014)

jesco said:


> But like in all workplaces, there are rules and I must operate within them.


 I understand. But you see the problem, don't you? The students are actually forced to step outside the rules, or continue to take a beating. And that's per your own comment that the student must take the consequences, in order to end the abuse.

Imagine that a student decided to physically abuse you on a daily basis. What if your ONLY options were to sit there and take it, or to "take the consequences to make it stop" - which meant getting suspended from your job?

I often think that if the teachers had to live by the same set of rules the kids do, they would go to their union and go on strike. And I can't help but think that if enough teachers got together with the same outrage over the students conditions, maybe something could get changed.

I hate to think about the implications of why that doesn't happen.


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## Gemini8 (Jun 29, 2013)

jesco said:


> On campus, I believe that by maintaining orderly hallways and cafeteria environments, we can keep opportunities for bullying and altercations to a minimum.
> However, one reason there is bullying (I am not talking about isolated scuffles that are quickly resolved) is that many parents expect the school system to raise their children. If a parent faced legal consequences for their childrens misdeeds, (ie bullying)they might teach their children to behave and leave other people alone.





My Little Big boat said:


> I am just curious...
> Am I the only one that believes this all got out of hand when they quit letting the teachers discipline the kids??? I remember making the paddles in shop class for the teachers!


While I agree that teachers should not be raising kids, I am also of the opinion that most parents expect there kids to be in a safe environment when in school. So no matter what the situation, it IS the responsibility of the teachers to take action against bullying and handle it before it escalates. If these same parents are wanting someone else to so call raise their kids, they sure aren't going to be engaged in fixing the problem.

I absolutely agree that when corporal punishment was taken out of the school a whole host of problems arose. Kids have no fear of repercussions. Suspension is not the answer....that's basically a time out. Who won't want to have 3 days away from their classroom & normal routine.

Good luck OP - I hope you are able to resolve this. Your son deserves better than what the system is giving him, both in school & with this particular situation.


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## donf (Aug 8, 2005)

Get a good lawyer, sue the principal and school board, and show them a child has the god given right to defend themselves from the threat, or the actual occurrence of bodily harm.


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## sharkchum (Feb 10, 2012)

Like I've said before, my wife has been a teacher of 12 years so I understand where jesco is coming from, the teachers hands are tied, all they can do is report it to the higher ups, and if they try to do anything more they will lose there jobs. The system is at fault and it needs to be changed. My wife has been assaulted twice by students at two different districts, and both times the kids were back in school within 2 weeks. This new "No child get's left behind" **** is part of the problem. Not only will they not kick the bad kids out off school, the teachers are not even allowed to fail them anymore. If a kid refuses to do their work or does bad on everything they turn in, the teacher still has to find a way to pass them or they will lose their job. If they don't keep the kids in school and pass them they will lose government funding, and the school board won't allow that, so the teachers have to put up with all these stupid rules or they won't have a job.


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## iamatt (Aug 28, 2012)

I suggest you contact Eric Holder

Phone: 1-202-514-2001
U.S. Department of Justice
Attention: Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr.
950 Pennsylvania Avenue NW
Washington DC 20530


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## sharkchum (Feb 10, 2012)

iamatt said:


> I suggest you contact Eric Holder
> 
> Phone: 1-202-514-2001
> U.S. Department of Justice
> ...


Now that's funny right there. I'm sure he would step right up to defend my white kid after being assaulted by a black kid.LOL


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## Superman70 (Aug 13, 2014)

Pure policy bs. Any fight for any reason will land a kid in detention. If he doesnt fight back the school will say it was a misunderstanding and the thug goes free.

Gotta take youre licks but you have to make it worth your while.

Fighting solves nothing. Choke an *****$ hole out break a bone or draw good blood will change their mind. All three if you can.
Gotto make it hurt.


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## fangard (Apr 18, 2008)

iamatt said:


> I suggest you contact Eric Holder
> 
> Phone: 1-202-514-2001
> U.S. Department of Justice
> ...


Can't reach him. I think he is still in Paris not taking part in the protests going on.


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## cman (Apr 17, 2009)

> The police were there to stop me, I kind of flew off the handle when I was on the phone with the assistant principle and called him the the old word for brazil nut, than he put the principle on the phone and I called her a stupid female dog in heat and she hung up on me. I don't think the cop's would file charge's on the other kid anyway, he was black, and if the cop's filed charges on him that would be raciest.


I hope I'm wrong, but I think you may've lost your chance at handling this yourself.

If the school sees that they can push it off to mutual combat, they will. If you start making idle threats now, of course they will ignore you. 
You can't act like that- calling people names and getting hot headed- and be taken seriously. 
I maintain that the only way to gain ground now is with an attorney. An angry lawyer letter will cost you <$250 which is a lot less than missing work for 3 weeks will cost. 
That, or get them to again say that your son was picked on all day and defended himself - which I doubt they will let slip again at this point- and you record it covertly.

Good luck today!


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## SpikeMike (May 16, 2007)

keep in mind that when you meet with the principal, AP, superintendent, or whoever, that they have an obligation to stand up for the administrators and teachers below them. this can be very frustrating when it appears that your case is not really getting heard.

for this kind of thing, public schools and districts stink and there isn't much we can do about it. i have some experience with this and i've spoken to the school board before.

we were faced with a similar issue and i just told my son that he's a big athletic kid and he should defend himself if he is pushed too far, but because of the district's rules there may be some punishment. sometimes you have to defend yourself in spite of the consequences.


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## jesco (Jun 23, 2013)

cman said:


> I hope I'm wrong, but I think you may've lost your chance at handling this yourself.
> 
> I maintain that the only way to gain ground now is with an attorney. An angry lawyer letter will cost you <$250 which is a lot less than missing work for 3 weeks will cost.
> 
> Good luck today!


 Tough to out lawyer a school district. Most have a team of high dollar, well connected attorneys on retainer. However, if the students 504 mods and accomodations have been neglected, well that trumps everything. 504 is a federal program, and violations can fall under office of Civil Rights.


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## sharkchum (Feb 10, 2012)

jesco said:


> Tough to out lawyer a school district. Most have a team of high dollar, well connected attorneys on retainer. However, if the students 504 mods and accomodations have been neglected, well that trumps everything. 504 is a federal program, and violations can fall under office of Civil Rights.


This is what I'm counting on.


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## jesco (Jun 23, 2013)

sharkchum said:


> Like I've said before, my wife has been a teacher of 12 years so I understand where jesco is coming from, the teachers hands are tied, all they can do is report it to the higher ups, and if they try to do anything more they will lose there jobs. The system is at fault and it needs to be changed. My wife has been assaulted twice by students at two different districts, and both times the kids were back in school within 2 weeks. This new "No child get's left behind" **** is part of the problem. Not only will they not kick the bad kids out off school, the teachers are not even allowed to fail them anymore. If a kid refuses to do their work or does bad on everything they turn in, the teacher still has to find a way to pass them or they will lose their job. If they don't keep the kids in school and pass them they will lose government funding, and the school board won't allow that, so the teachers have to put up with all these stupid rules or they won't have a job.


Perfectly stated sir.


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## sharkchum (Feb 10, 2012)

cman said:


> I hope I'm wrong, but I think you may've lost your chance at handling this yourself.
> 
> If the school sees that they can push it off to mutual combat, they will. If you start making idle threats now, of course they will ignore you.
> You can't act like that- calling people names and getting hot headed- and be taken seriously.
> ...


 You are 100% right, I blow up to fast and I was born without a filter, so when I get mad I do or say the first thing that pop into my mind and it has gotten me in a lot of trouble over the years. I am calm now and I have all my paper work in order for my meeting. When I have time to think things through, and I know I'm right, I'm pretty good at dealing with these kinds of things, but anytime something happens with my kids my first instinct it to attack. I do need to work on my temper.


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## BertS (May 21, 2004)

I seriously hope that you haven't made a bad situation worse with your words, and name calling.

wouldn't surprise me if you have already been labeled by the principal and the vice principal, to the superintendent, and they story is going to change how you've taught your son to be racist also, and he started it because the other boy is black.


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## cman (Apr 17, 2009)

> Tough to out lawyer a school district.


I'll dissagree with you there. He would not have to "out lawyer" a school district to have his child's punishment reduced from 3 weeks at an alternative school. 
Lawyers want to settle issues, not win protracted battles.

They admitted that the boy was picked on all day and finally had to defend himself. Handled correctly, this could, or could have been mitigated.


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## bigdaddy67 (Oct 30, 2012)

back in my day of school you would get 3 days off.
but I would agree with gm.


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## woodruffjp (Aug 11, 2012)

I have been a junior high & high school teacher for over 15 years and a junior high assistant principal for an additional 6 years. The system is broke. If it is evident that your son was indeed defending him self from bullying or harassment, and an administrator at the school or some other form of evidence to that effect is available, ie; video, you can fight this, you just need to fight within the broken system. Read up on Texas Education Code, Ch. 37 (http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/?link=ED). Hire a lawyer. If you have already met with the principal and are not satisfied with the result, demand a meeting with their supervisor, usually an Assistant Superintendent. Notify them that you will be bringing your lawyer. Make sure your lawyer is good with school law, because the ISD will have their lawyer present also. Use the evidence of self defense. State law allows for self defense without punishment. If the other student (s) touched your child in any way, technically that is assault. I believe the literal definition of assault is "unwanted touching". File assault charges on the other student (s). Heck, my own daughter was caught throwing pizza when she was in high school, during a food fight. Because it hit another student, she received a citation for Class C Assault! Many, many times, when I was an assistant principal, I had to either punish students in situations just like your child or find a way to punish ONLY the other student that instigated the issue. That is very difficult IF you have a very angry, demanding, vocal parent on the other side. School districts are generally not too afraid of media exposure, because the law is written in such a way that they are in the right punishing ALL students involved in a fight or altercation, so the law is on their side and they know it. You seem sure that self defense is part of this solution in your description of the issue, so I would stick with that, and make all the noise you are willing to make to defend your child! Regardless of what happens in the end, make sure your child knows it is OK, even necessary, to defend one's self in the face of mindless bullies! Many times that is the ONLY way to make it go away! GOOD LUCK!


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## MarkU (Jun 3, 2013)

sharkchum said:


> Blk Jck 224 said:
> 
> 
> > The police were there to stop me, I kind of flew off the handle when I was on the phone with the assistant principle and called him the the old word for brazil nut, than he put the principle on the phone and I called her a stupid female dog in heat and she hung up on me. I don't think the cop's would file charge's on the other kid anyway, he was black, and if the cop's filed charges on him that would be raciest.
> ...


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## TxFig (May 4, 2006)

Do you trust government to run your healthcare?

If not, why would a parent trust the government to educate their kids?


We homeschooled all 3 of our daughters all the way through graduation. Today they are all productive, responsible adults.


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## mercenarymedic2105 (Jun 8, 2011)

fangard said:


> No you didn't. I stand by what I said. Mind your own business and create your own posts instead of editing others.


Public forum, free to comment as I please. I applaud you for standing by your position but the fact is, he was right. For the most part, the public education system in this country is a complete joke and does little to prepare kids for life as an adult. Good teachers are becoming the minority and the ones that are left can do little to help because their hands are tied, the parents couldn't care less and think the schools should be raising their children, and the bad teachers rule the roost. The kids come out with no discipline, no study habits, no respect for anyone, and little that resembles an education.

And before your next great argument that I have no idea what I'm talking about: Wife- Teacher, MIL- Teacher, Me- College teacher (that means I see the products of the public education system, it doesn't look good). My children will never set foot inside a public school as a student.


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## sharkchum (Feb 10, 2012)

*Update*

I had my meeting today with the assistant superintendent and I felt it went well. He agreed with most of what I had to say and was very helpful with answering my questions, that's when I knew I couldn't trust him and that he would walk all over me any chance he got. That's when I pulled out the email from the principle about the 504 meeting that never happen. First he tried to play stupid, like he didn't know what a 504 was, but he got a look in his eyes like someone just grabbed his nads and started twisting. I stayed calm and professional, I never raised my voice, and I didn't make threat's about contacting the media or a lawyer. What I did do is tell him that I hoped this matter could be resolved in a timely manner, so I didn't have to go through the trouble of filing a grievance with the T.E.A. about why my sons 504 needs were neglected. I also told him that I would like any further correspondence to be through email, so I would have records, in case I needed to take this to the next level. I thanked him for his time and left, now I just have to wait for him to make a decision.


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## DCAVA (Aug 5, 2013)

^^^Good deal bro! Things will work themselves out for your boy, and pretty quickly I'm sure.


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## Captain Dave (Jul 19, 2006)

Dang John.. Small town BS. IT used to be that the one picked on and beat up had some sympathy from the school consul . It looks like Over abusive power heads in your district. 

Go higher and talk to the Superintendent. Things happen fast... I know.....


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## Mr. Saltwater (Oct 5, 2012)

Good to hear that!!! 

Praying it all goes well!!


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## OnedayScratch (May 23, 2012)

Good. Hopefully you'll get this resolved fast. Remember, sqeeky wheel gets the grease.


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## ksk (Aug 9, 2008)

*Assault*



sharkchum said:


> I had my meeting today with the assistant superintendent and I felt it went well. He agreed with most of what I had to say and was very helpful with answering my questions, that's when I knew I couldn't trust him and that he would walk all over me any chance he got. That's when I pulled out the email from the principle about the 504 meeting that never happen. First he tried to play stupid, like he didn't know what a 504 was, but he got a look in his eyes like someone just grabbed his nads and started twisting. I stayed calm and professional, I never raised my voice, and I didn't make threat's about contacting the media or a lawyer. What I did do is tell him that I hoped this matter could be resolved in a timely manner, so I didn't have to go through the trouble of filing a grievance with the T.E.A. about why my sons 504 needs were neglected. I also told him that I would like any further correspondence to be through email, so I would have records, in case I needed to take this to the next level. I thanked him for his time and left, now I just have to wait for him to make a decision.


Good for you Shark [staying calm].It does not surprise me if he did not know what 504's are.Many administrators at administration buildings never did a ARD or 504.[I did over 1000 ARD's/300 504'S].Most of the general public do not know what they are either.If you have not got your hands on your district's Code of Conduct,do so,just in case the decision goes south.By the way,have you asked your son's school for his assignments for the three days he is suspended? Many schools will do so,does not hurt to ask. Good luck.


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## Zeitgeist (Nov 10, 2011)

Boom!


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## pocjetty (Sep 12, 2014)

goatherder said:


> I have been a junior high & high school teacher for over 15 years and a junior high assistant principal for an additional 6 years. The system is broke. If it is evident that your son was indeed defending him self from bullying or harassment, and an administrator at the school or some other form of evidence to that effect is available, ie; video, you can fight this, you just need to fight within the broken system. Read up on Texas Education Code, Ch. 37 (http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/?link=ED). Hire a lawyer. If you have already met with the principal and are not satisfied with the result, demand a meeting with their supervisor, usually an Assistant Superintendent. Notify them that you will be bringing your lawyer. Make sure your lawyer is good with school law, because the ISD will have their lawyer present also. Use the evidence of self defense. State law allows for self defense without punishment. If the other student (s) touched your child in any way, technically that is assault. I believe the literal definition of assault is "unwanted touching". File assault charges on the other student (s). Heck, my own daughter was caught throwing pizza when she was in high school, during a food fight. Because it hit another student, she received a citation for Class C Assault! Many, many times, when I was an assistant principal, I had to either punish students in situations just like your child or find a way to punish ONLY the other student that instigated the issue. That is very difficult IF you have a very angry, demanding, vocal parent on the other side. School districts are generally not too afraid of media exposure, because the law is written in such a way that they are in the right punishing ALL students involved in a fight or altercation, so the law is on their side and they know it. You seem sure that self defense is part of this solution in your description of the issue, so I would stick with that, and make all the noise you are willing to make to defend your child! Regardless of what happens in the end, make sure your child knows it is OK, even necessary, to defend one's self in the face of mindless bullies! Many times that is the ONLY way to make it go away! GOOD LUCK!


Bravo! My favorite post of this young year. Until we admit that something is broken, there's no chance to fix it.

My hope is that there are more teachers and administrators like you. My fear is that you are a vanishing breed.


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## Zeitgeist (Nov 10, 2011)

pocjetty said:


> Bravo! My favorite post of this young year. Until we admit that something is broken, there's no chance to fix it.
> 
> My hope is that there are more teachers and administrators like you. My fear is that you are a vanishing breed.


 Indeed! I just hope he doesn't teach grammar & writing, because I missed the paragraphs in that post! Bahahaha! :bounce:

Just trying to lighten up this thread


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## Leo (May 21, 2004)

As stupid as it sounds, it sounds like they copied the rules from the NFL, the guy that retaliates gets the penalty.


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## pknight6 (Nov 8, 2014)

It's all part of the wussification of America. You have to avoid offending anyone at all cost. Unless they happen to be a white, straight, christian, then it is OK to offend them as much as you want. With zero tolerance, your kid can be expelled for having finger nail clippers or Tylenol. Suspending kids for making a gun with their fingers and saying pow? By the time the liberals figure out how much they are harming this country, it may be too late.


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## Spirit (Nov 19, 2008)

fangard said:


> Incredibly broad and ill-informed statement.


Unfortunately, both personal experience, nightly news stories and posts here on 2cool form a bleak picture of public education and reinforce my position. I firmly believe what I said, you are welcome to disagree.


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## fangard (Apr 18, 2008)

Spirit said:


> Unfortunately, both personal experience, nightly news stories and posts here on 2cool form a bleak picture of public education and reinforce my position. I firmly believe what I said, you are welcome to disagree.


Very big of you to allow me to disagree.

When people speak in absolute terms, they lose their credibility. In my opinion of course. Everything, always,never, there are always exceptions.


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## fangard (Apr 18, 2008)

mercenarymedic2105 said:


> Public forum, free to comment as I please. I applaud you for standing by your position but the fact is, he was right. For the most part, the public education system in this country is a complete joke and does little to prepare kids for life as an adult. Good teachers are becoming the minority and the ones that are left can do little to help because their hands are tied, the parents couldn't care less and think the schools should be raising their children, and the bad teachers rule the roost. The kids come out with no discipline, no study habits, no respect for anyone, and little that resembles an education.
> 
> And before your next great argument that I have no idea what I'm talking about: Wife- Teacher, MIL- Teacher, Me- College teacher (that means I see the products of the public education system, it doesn't look good). My children will never set foot inside a public school as a student.


Entirely too long to read. Assume you disagree with me. That is Your right.


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## jtbailey (Apr 29, 2012)

fangard said:


> Entirely too long to read. Assume you disagree with me. That is Your right.


LOL ^^^^product of the system


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## Spirit (Nov 19, 2008)

fangard said:


> Entirely too long to read. Assume you disagree with me. That is Your right.


He agrees with me, is that why you are being too lazy to read it? lol

Just pickin' at ya. Have a great afternoon.


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## fangard (Apr 18, 2008)

Spirit said:


> He agrees with me, is that why you are being too lazy to read it? lol
> 
> Just pickin' at ya. Have a great afternoon.


Too funny. Fundamentally, I don't have a problem with the meat of your comment, just the blanket statement aspect of it. I feel we have our son at a prettygood High Scholl, Memorial in SBISD. If we didn't have a good option, totally agree with "a lot, or many" schools not being viable options.


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## sharkchum (Feb 10, 2012)

This is funny. I just got off the phone with my sons school councilor, they wanted to tell me they were working on the 504. I just started laughing.


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## Spirit (Nov 19, 2008)

sharkchum said:


> This is funny. I just got off the phone with my sons school councilor, they wanted to tell me they were working on the 504. I just started laughing.


 Looks like you lit a fire, good for you.


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## Spirit (Nov 19, 2008)

fangard said:


> Too funny. Fundamentally, I don't have a problem with the meat of your comment, just the blanket statement aspect of it. I feel we have our son at a prettygood High Scholl, Memorial in SBISD. If we didn't have a good option, totally agree with "a lot, or many" schools not being viable options.


Most of us don't take the time to worry about semantics when we post. Just say what we think and let the next person say what they think and realize that "imo" is understood.


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## ksk (Aug 9, 2008)

*504*



sharkchum said:


> This is funny. I just got off the phone with my sons school councilor, they wanted to tell me they were working on the 504. I just started laughing.


Looks like there covering their backsides Shark.Remember, being 504 or special needs does not mean it keeps one out of suspensions or A school. It only means the assigning school has to send the student's accommodations with them.The receiving school has to implement them.


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## Spirit (Nov 19, 2008)

ksk said:


> Looks like there covering their backsides Shark.Remember, being 504 or special needs does not mean it keeps one out of suspensions or A school. It only means the assigning school has to send the student's accommodations with them.The receiving school has to implement them.


If they'd have done it when they were supposed to, the fight probably wouldn't have happened. They should take that into consideration and rethink his punishment. Hopefully, they will.

Edit: Oops, imo. :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:


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## sharkchum (Feb 10, 2012)

Spirit said:


> If they'd have done it when they were supposed to, the fight probably wouldn't have happened. They should take that into consideration and rethink his punishment. Hopefully, they will.
> 
> Edit: Oops, imo. :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:


That is the same thing I told them. I still haven't heard anything back from the assistant superintendent yet, if he don't give me a answer by tomorrow I'm gonna follow through with the TEA.


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## NaClH2O (May 25, 2004)

sharkchum said:


> This is funny. I just got off the phone with my sons school councilor, they wanted to tell me they were working on the 504. I just started laughing.


Always assume the school has absolutely no idea what they're doing. For example, back when my brother was in high school, he got really sick his junior year, causing him to be out almost an entire year. One day, my dad gets a call at work.
School: "Why hasn't your son been at school the last three days?"
Dad: "Three days? He's been out for the last three months."
School: "Well, does the principle know about this?"
Dad: "Yes she does. We've kept her updated on this situation since it began."
School: "OK, we'll just have to ask her about that and call you back."

Guess what, he never got a call back. Keep after 'em sharkchum and make sure you cover your tracks, because they sure won't.


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## sharkchum (Feb 10, 2012)

NaClH2O said:


> Always assume the school has absolutely no idea what they're doing. For example, back when my brother was in high school, he got really sick his junior year, causing him to be out almost an entire year. One day, my dad gets a call at work.
> School: "Why hasn't your son been at school the last three days?"
> Dad: "Three days? He's been out for the last three months."
> School: "Well, does the principle know about this?"
> ...


 As stupid as the people running the schools are, it surprises me they kids even learn to read and write. I just got a recorded message from the school not 5 minuets ago informing me that my son was marked absent today. Of course he was absent, THEY SUSPENDED HIM FOR THE REST OF THE WEEK. Total idiots.


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## teckersley (May 25, 2004)

Yes its unfortunate that even when they admit he did in self defense that he gets in trouble. I agree with what is said here. Try talking to the principal and see what happens. Maybe not much but at least you tried.

We have a 10 year old boy ourselves. We have had many conversations about bullies, self defense etc. What I have told him is that you don't pick fights and you don't bully, However if they hit you first its on. Take them to the ground and beat the **** out of them. I told him yes you will likely get in trouble but I have your back. That will likely be the last time they pick on him. Bullies pick on the weak and sometimes, like your son, thats what it takes. I would dare to bet they won't be back to pick on him.

So sad that this is what it has come to.

Good luck.


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## sharkchum (Feb 10, 2012)

I received this email form the assistant superintendent yesterday."Mr. Riley,
I have looked into your 504 concern, and I found that Dickinson High School started his evaluation process on November 3, 2014 after the school contacted you regarding another issue. However, they have not finished the process and scheduled a meeting with you. The high school will be contacting you soon (most likely Thursday) to schedule a meeting to determine 504 eligibility. Your sonâ€™s placement will be on hold until a determination is made by the committee. If the meeting is not scheduled before this Friday (the end date of Johnâ€™s suspension), he may return to the high school on Friday and remain in ISS until the committee meets and makes a determination. My final decision regarding you appeal of the DALC placement will not be rendered until I can consider the 504 committeeâ€™s decision.
Please call me if you have any questions." This is one small battle won, but the war is far from over.


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## ksk (Aug 9, 2008)

*504*



sharkchum said:


> I received this email form the assistant superintendent yesterday."Mr. Riley,
> I have looked into your 504 concern, and I found that Dickinson High School started his evaluation process on November 3, 2014 after the school contacted you regarding another issue. However, they have not finished the process and scheduled a meeting with you. The high school will be contacting you soon (most likely Thursday) to schedule a meeting to determine 504 eligibility. Your sonâ€™s placement will be on hold until a determination is made by the committee. If the meeting is not scheduled before this Friday (the end date of Johnâ€™s suspension), he may return to the high school on Friday and remain in ISS until the committee meets and makes a determination. My final decision regarding you appeal of the DALC placement will not be rendered until I can consider the 504 committeeâ€™s decision.
> Please call me if you have any questions." This is one small battle won, but the war is far from over.


Interesting Shark.They started the evaluation Nov.3rd ? Let's see that is 2 1/2 months.As I said,I did 100's 504's.Never heard one taking 2 1/2 months to determine one's eligibility.Heck,I have seen them done in hours.It does not take a brain surgeon to figure out the school dropped the ball.Remember,even if he qualifies under 504 guidelines,he may still have to go to DALC if his qualification for 504 has nothing to do with his behavior.I still believe the district is side stepping the ''assault'' issue.If I were you,keep the TEA phone number handy.Also,if you have no experience in 504 meetings,you may want to find a 504/special needs advocate to go with you.These folks know the laws/guidelines better than most counselors/administrators.Good luck.


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## sharkchum (Feb 10, 2012)

ksk said:


> Interesting Shark.They started the evaluation Nov.3rd ? Let's see that is 2 1/2 months.As I said,I did 100's 504's.Never heard one taking 2 1/2 months to determine one's eligibility.Heck,I have seen them done in hours.It does not take a brain surgeon to figure out the school dropped the ball.Remember,even if he qualifies under 504 guidelines,he may still have to go to DALC if his qualification for 504 has nothing to do with his behavior.I still believe the district is side stepping the ''assault'' issue.If I were you,keep the TEA phone number handy.Also,if you have no experience in 504 meetings,you may want to find a 504/special needs advocate to go with you.These folks know the laws/guidelines better than most counselors/administrators.Good luck.


 They sure are jumping through hoops now, they called me this afternoon to set up a meeting for tomorrow morning. I don't know a lot about 504, but I'm a fast learner and by tomorrow morning I will know more about it than the people I'm meeting with. I already have the number to TEA programmed into my phone, 512-463-9734 if anyone else needs it. Thanks for your help.


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## Spirit (Nov 19, 2008)

Saying prayers and burning sage for a positive outcome.


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## NaClH2O (May 25, 2004)

sharkchum said:


> As stupid as the people running the schools are, it surprises me they kids even learn to read and write. I just got a recorded message from the school not 5 minuets ago informing me that my son was marked absent today. Of course he was absent, THEY SUSPENDED HIM FOR THE REST OF THE WEEK. Total idiots.


Wow. I didn't think such a similar thing would happen so soon. I think the whole public school system is broken. Good luck in your fight with them.


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## sharkchum (Feb 10, 2012)

I've been doing more research on 504 and found a better description of what it's for. "Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973 is a civil rights law that prohibits recipients of federal funding from discriminating against individuals with disabilities. As it relates to public education, the law states that a school cannot place a student in segregated classes or facilities â€œsolely by reason of her or his disability.â€ Students with disabilities must be given the same opportunities to participate in academic, nonacademic and extracurricular activities as their non-disabled peers." What this means is that not only did the school district break the law, but they also violated my son's civil rights. My son is under the care of a Dr., who has diagnosed him with depression, bipolar disorder, and Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, and he is on medication. Anyone that has ever suffered from any of these things or known someone that has, can understand that it is a disability.


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## sharkchum (Feb 10, 2012)

I had my son's 504 meeting today and it did not go well. They denied his 504 status because they said his mental disability was not affecting his grades. I'm not 100% sure yet, but I think they might have dug their self's a deeper hole by telling me this. From what I understand, 504 cover's every aspect of their school life, not just academics. It looks like I may have to turn this matter over to the TEA in order to get the results I'm looking for. I did record the meeting, when I pulled my voice recorder out of my pocket and placed it on the table and told them I wanted to record our conversation, they looked at it like it was a live hand grenade, I almost started laughing.


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## whiskey1 (May 8, 2014)

sharkchum said:


> I had my son's 504 meeting today and it did not go well. They denied his 504 status because they said his mental disability was not affecting his grades. I'm not 100% sure yet, but I think they might have dug their self's a deeper hole by telling me this. From what I understand, 504 cover's every aspect of their school life, not just academics. It looks like I may have to turn this matter over to the TEA in order to get the results I'm looking for. I did record the meeting, when I pulled my voice recorder out of my pocket and placed it on the table and told them I wanted to record our conversation, they looked at it like it was a live hand grenade, I almost started laughing.


Lawyer told them to say that. Now is time to pull any and all records you have regarding learning disabilities he may have.


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## Doubless (Aug 22, 2005)

I wish I had seen this earlier... years ago my now 29 year old son had an altercation while waiting for the bus after school one day and was suspended. In short, another kid stepped on both my son's shins and "rolled" the skin. My son stood up and shoved him, and was promptly suspended.

The next day I scheduled a meeting with the asst. principal. After about half an hour of listening to him crow about taking do rags away from Crips and so forth, I asked him why my son was suspended. He told me it was because he shoved the other kid, and I asked him to stand up. He asked me why. I told him I was about to bust him in the mouth and I expected him to take it, because that was exactly what he was telling my son HE had to do. When he refused to stand up, I then reminded him that he was charged with keeping my son safe while he was on the school property; that he could either ensure my son's safety or he could allow my son to defend himself and keep himself safe. I also reminded him that he had failed miserably at keeping my son safe, and was punishing him for doing what any human would do: defending himself/herself when attacked. 

I finally told the man that either he could keep my son safe or risk me owning the school if something happened to my son while he was on school property, and if that happened, he personally would be sued for neglect and allowing personal injury.

As I got up to leave, the asst. principal told me I had made my point, and my son could return to school the next day.


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## ksk (Aug 9, 2008)

*504*



sharkchum said:


> I had my son's 504 meeting today and it did not go well. They denied his 504 status because they said his mental disability was not affecting his grades. I'm not 100% sure yet, but I think they might have dug their self's a deeper hole by telling me this. From what I understand, 504 cover's every aspect of their school life, not just academics. It looks like I may have to turn this matter over to the TEA in order to get the results I'm looking for. I did record the meeting, when I pulled my voice recorder out of my pocket and placed it on the table and told them I wanted to record our conversation, they looked at it like it was a live hand grenade, I almost started laughing.


Shark did they say anything about qualifying him under special needs?This is a longer process, much more complicated and time consuming?I still think you should pursue the assault/fight as written in your code of conduct.Is there a appeals process in place?Also,many have suggested getting a attorney.If it comes to that,hire one that knows educational law,you will be throwing your money away other wise.


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