# Blazer Bay 2170 VS Kenner 21VX



## barbless (Jul 27, 2004)

I'm considering a boat upgrade, maybe after the first of the year. I've been considering the Kenner but a 21VX owner told me the sides are weak and prone to crack if boat is pushed against a piling in the middle; too long a span and not enough support. The Kenner also has a small 35 gal fuel tank. The Blazer has a 50 gal tank. I like to take off for a weekend and camp out and fish and stay gone without having to go back to the dock for another load of expensive dock gas. I was told the Kenner VX series has 5 layers of glass while the Blazer Bay has 7. I think the hulls are pretty much the same shape and prices comparable. I'really leaning toward the Blazer with a tunnel, 150 HP outboard and hydraulic JP. I like the capability of these boats to go fairly shallow (7" ??) and also able to go offshore on select days for kings. I don't see the utility of a liner boat; you loose some interior space, more expensive, it's heavier and scuffs easier. What are your thoughts? Any other boat suggestions? Thanks


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## MT Stringer (May 21, 2004)

*Kenner Vision K2102*

You might also want to consider the 21' Kenner Vision model K2102. It has a 60 gallon built in tank, and lots of storgae room under the 6 foot casting deck. With a 150 Merc, it'll run 50+ and it has proved to be a dry ride. Running 20 miles offshore proved to be a snap (62 miles total). We have fished four out of it on more than one occasion. It is available with a tunnel and it has a 200hp rating if you so desire.

When it comes to buying a boat, there are a lot of good models to chose from. As you narrow your search, maybe you can find someone with the model you are looking for to take you for a spin.
Good luck in your search.

NOTE: BTW, in the offshore pic below, that is a 151 qt Igloo sitting crosswise in the floor of the boat between the front deck and the livewell. And there is still enough room for someone to sit on the livewell seat and have floor space for your feet
Mike


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## barbless (Jul 27, 2004)

*Thanks MT*

The vision is a great boat, I've seen a couple and was impressed. That's another one I'm considering but I'm shying away from a liner boat; it looks great but I just don't see the utility of having a liner. Is there something I'm missing? Thanks


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## jramm (Jun 15, 2004)

Just curious what your upgrading from?

I have a Kenner 18v-135 (I think it is know the 18VX) and it has been good. I opted for it over the smaller Vision which is actually less than 18 ft (before the were making the 19.) I agree with you about the liners, but the one thing that I think might be better is the "hot foot factor". I have the gray deck and it gots hot to walk on, it seems like when I have been in liner boats they don't get as hot (but not sure if that's enough of a pro.)

Also, I couldn't believe the 21 only came with a 36 gallon tank, that's what my 18 has. Seems like you should be able to order that boat with a bigger tank. As for the cracking, I haven't ever heard of that and Kenner has been around for a while, but it does sound plausible.

One other thing about the Kenner's is that Bass Pro now owns them and I have heard so many negative things about them it makes me worry. I had always heard positive things about Kenner when when they were on there own. I do believe Mr. Kenner has started a new company and some people saw his new line at the summer boat show and said it looked good, but not really a skinny water boat. If you are waiting till the first of the year I'd go ahead and see what I could find at the boat show.

Good luck.


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## GaryB (May 21, 2004)

Hey MT, did you ever sell your old one?


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## MT Stringer (May 21, 2004)

Hi Gary, yes, the old Kenner was sold earlier this year. Thanks.
Mike


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## Whitecrow (May 26, 2004)

MT, 
Curious what set up you have on your boat. My fishing bud has an '01 2102 w/ 150 Merc, 17 pitch prop, no jackplate, and the best he can get is 45 @ 5600rpm on the GPS. That's in fishing trim with 2 adults. I've heard several people say they get 50+ out of that rig. Curious what he's doing wrong, or if the 50+ readings are GPS or not. We've had it 35 miles off before. The only bad thing I've noticed is the deck drains are below the water line at rest. Sucks when you want to wash the deck and the water can't drain.


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## MT Stringer (May 21, 2004)

Honestly Whitecrow, I don't know the pitch of the prop. It is what Witt rigged the motor with. I has a great hole shot and good top end. It's a '03 model with 150 Merc and no jackplate. The day I ran it 53 mph (Garmin 176C) I had three adults and two teenagers in the boat, but only about 20 gallons of gas. I've run it 48 with 4 fisherpersons and gear.

I did see the deck drains at the water line, but I had all 215# of me leaning over the transom to take a look. Ordinarily there is no water in the floor and anything on the deck will drain out when I take off.

You are right about the 35 miles offshore thing. We ran 62 miles total and the tank still showed to be full. I need to fill up and do the calculations to figure out the mpg.
Mike


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## Whitecrow (May 26, 2004)

Is your GPS set to statute miles, or nautical miles (nm)? I just can't believe that a 150 will push it 53mph with 5 people on board. If it does, walk proud. Nothing we've been able to do will get my bud's boat much over 45. I looked at one with a 200EFI on it and the guy said top speed was 54. 
Either way, it's a nice rig. Nice pix. Hope to be out there soon myself.


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## Fishnut (May 21, 2004)

*WC - I think he needs to re prop that boat or something.*

I have a Kenner 21V with a 125 and can run 45 with 2 guys and gear with 5200 RPM. I think I have a 19 pitch on mine...

Another thing that could have happen if he can't get the RPM's over 4500. Some of these newer motors have a computer in them and if they get to high on RPM's they will set themselves to not go as high. You have to take them in and have the dealer reset it, this sometimes happens from jumping wakes and the motor comes all the way out of the water.

FN


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## barbless (Jul 27, 2004)

*jramm, I'm upgrading from......*

a 98 model ProMaster 185 w/115 Johnson. It's been a good boat but I want something longer, sits higher in the water and better able to take the gulf. Looks to me like the 21VX is just a stretched 18VX which might account for the same fuel tank. Does anyone know if the Blazer 2170 is the same hull shape as the Kenner 21VX? From their websites it looks like the Kenner 2102 is about 400 lbs heavier because of the liner. To me that means it sits a little deeper in the water, less performance from a 150 and more weight for my pld pickup to tow. The 2170 is 3 inches longer but 2 inches narrower. Thanks for the comments everyone


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## jramm (Jun 15, 2004)

You might want to take a look at the Nitro Bay boat as well. I kind of assumed the specs would be the same as the Kenner since they are owned by the same company, but I just looked and the beam is 8' 3'' (or 99" - wider than both the Kenner and Blazer.) It also comes with 44 gallon tank, which a little better than the 36 in the Kenner.

Not sure what your budget requirements are, but I would definately take a look at the Pathfinder's if I could.


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## Whitecrow (May 26, 2004)

Fishnut,
Read my original post again, I said he gets 45mph @ 5600rpm, which is the max rpm for the 150 Merc. It is propped right. Your VX is about 400lbs lighter than the 2102, which would account for you getting the same mph with 25 less hp.
I'm not trying to be a smarta$$, but I'd like to know if we can get my bud's boat to run better. I've been running the math and here's what I get. The 150 Merc has a 1.87:1 gear ratio. Putting the gear ratio, a 17p prop, @5600 rpm in the prop formulas yields a max possible speed of 48.19mph......assuming 100% efficiency, which is impossible. Dividing the real speed by the theoretical speed gives an efficiency of 93%. Any loss under 10% is pretty good. This coincides with my bud's finding of ~45mph top end. With a 19p prop, assuming the 150 would pull it and still achieve 5600rpm (highly unlikely), the formula yields a top possible speed of 53.8mph, again assuming 100% efficiency. 
There are other variables to consider: water, weather, wind, hull condition, load, yada yada yada. The formulas just give the baseline and a starting point. 
I'm still wondering if the GPS is set to nautical miles to yield a speed of 53.


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## barbless (Jul 27, 2004)

Jramm, the Pathfinder is definately out of my budget. I've been real interested in the Blazer 2220 which is a cheaper knockoff of the Pathfinder and a great boat. But it doesn't come with a tunnel, doesn't sit up as high as the 2170 and has a liner which I'm thinking i don't want. I'll look at the Nitros, thanks for the tip.


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## jramm (Jun 15, 2004)

It sounded like you were looking for something without a liner, which made me think who all was making this style hull without the liner. 

As for the Pathfinder, Ronnies Marine is advertising some '04 2200s for around $28k, not sure how that works in reality though.

I think I got a good deal on my 18 ft. Kenner but by the time I was done with all the additions it was still close to $20k, so I'm guessing you are looking at spending low to mid 20's on a 21 footer. Is that about right?

Also, on the tunnel front, just about everyone talked me out of the tunnel because of the lack of handling and top end speed loss. I can still get shallow enough to wade and run in some pretty skinny places. If I was going to be making offshore runs not sure if I'd want to make the sacrifice for a tunnel. Just my thoughts.

What's your timeframe for a purchase? Are you only looking to by new?

I love thinking and talking about getting new boats (my wife hates it, she thinks I should be happy with what I have.)

-Jason


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## Cru (May 24, 2004)

I understand that Kenner was bought by the Bass Pro/Tracker Marine group and have starting having some serious quality control issues crop up. It seems that group buys established names like Mako, Kenner etc. and then lets the beancounters run rampant at the expense of the consumers...


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## jramm (Jun 15, 2004)

I think they have owned them for at least a couple of years now, but Bill Kenner still ran the Kenner division for a while. I think he left a year or so ago and started another company. While I haven't heard of an quality problems it is certainly possible and is one thing that I worried about when I bought mine 2 years ago. I know that there have been a lot of problems regarding puchases made from Bass Pro, but that has been mostly around poor rigging of the boats. I haven't heard of any structural problems up to this point. You can still find a few independed Kenner dealers around and I think that is who you should buy from if you want one. I have not heard one good thing about dealing with Bass Pro. I just go out there to look because they always have a few in stock, where the smaller dealers may not. I would have another dealership order what I want.


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## Whitecrow (May 26, 2004)

http://www.2coolfishing.net/ttmbforum/showthread.php?t=2832
If you want an unlined boat that will handle chop, the Triton is a good choice. I'm selling to buy a bigger one.


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## Hoover (May 27, 2004)

Bill Kenner who owned Kenner Boats does not work for Bass Proshop anymore. His contract was up or he quit or something but anyhow he is making a new boat. I would not by anything produced by Bass Pro Shop. Supposidly the new 04's are weak because at there factory possibly new it is set up to produce 6 boats a day and they are doing 16 so if that's true there goes there problem and thats from a pretty reputable source. Anyways the his new boat is called K2. It is supposed to be 21 or 22 ft. You can call Bartlett Motor Co. in Lake Jackson to see if there has arrived yet. There number is 979-297-2510. I would almost buy the boat without looking at it. Reason being is i have a 97 180V kenner and I love the boat and all of there old boat are outstandin and I know he produces quality for a good price.


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## poppincork (Jun 28, 2004)

Check out the Blackjack and the Sea Pro at Witt's in Baytown...They are dry bay boats and the Sea Pro is in the price range of the Kenner(They used to rep)so they know it well. The Blackjack is the new addition from the Kenner's about a 30-32K range boat..The Sea hunt 21-22 ft w/150hp was $21,700 show special...about 6k off of regular..


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## ggardner (May 21, 2004)

*2102 Vision for me*

My vote goes to the Kenner 2102 Vision with the Mercury 150. I Have a 2002 model and it is a great boat for the money. A friend has the same boat with a 200 Merc. gets poorer gas milage and only goes the same 50mph as mine. I do the old man speed of 20-30 anyway. Great dry ride, wonderful storage, and good deck space. I opted for the leaning post from High Tec and it makes a difference in comfort and a good rocket launcher. ( I would not do business with Tops and Towers. They are arogant #$%^&s at the boat shows and seem not to care about customer relations. IMO) 
Have fun shopping, Gary


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## barbless (Jul 27, 2004)

*tunnel VS non-tunnel*

JRAMM, I know what you're saying about the tunnel. What I'd like to know is what will the tunnel do for me? How much shallower will it allow me to go? How much will it affect performance? In the end I will have to decide if it's worth the trade offs. I won't be in a position to buy before the end of the year if then. I'm hoping I can be able to get serious during the San antonio Boat Show after the first of the year. I don't have to buy new either.


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## kenny (May 21, 2004)

barbless,
It's a buyers market in used boats because so many are for sale. A late model used boat will save you thousands of dollars over new. Just do your homework and know what you're looking at. I'd stick with nothing over three or four years old. 
If you can pay ca$h you'll save even more.


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## poppincork (Jun 28, 2004)

Another note about the Blazer ...picked up at the boat show...2004 side walls on the 21'-7"..(probably all sizes) are thicker than the later 2005 models...they have cut a corner there..and probably had a price increase..You can hit on them and tell the difference!


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## jramm (Jun 15, 2004)

On the tunnel issue, I only know what others have told me. When I was looking that is what I wanted, but many people told me they tunnel has more pro's than cons, because it only affords you a couple of extra inches while running, but not enough to make a difference on this type of hull. 

Everyone told me unless I was going to be running around in a 2 ft of water all the time it was a waste. I think a few people even told me tunnel hull bay boats will actually draft more at rest because of reduced surface area. Again none of this is first hand knowledge only what others have told me, I guess sooner or later I'll have to get some first hand knowledge.


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## barbless (Jul 27, 2004)

*went to the SA boat show today*

The Blazer 2170 is looking better all the time. I talked to many salesmen about tunnel VS non-tunnel and all said go non-tunnel. I was told that a 10" jackplate, 4 blade prop and shallow blaster is what I need on the non-tunnel 2170. The sides on the 2170 are way stiffer than that on the Kenner 21VX. I looked at the 2102 Vision for a long time. It's a great boat but I'm pretty sure I want to go without a liner to save weight for drafting, towing and to get more performance from a 150. Now I just have to scrape up the $$.


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## wencketa (Jul 22, 2004)

I have a kenner vx with a yamaha 150 c series motor on it and it ran 52 on the gps when it was brand new and nothing in it with a 19 inch prop, but it would only run 5200 rpms. I wanted to up the rpms so I switched to a 17 pitch prop and with the boat fully loaded gas, trolling motor 2 more batterys and coolers, anchor and other gear it will run 47 or 48 with 3 people in the boat. It also has a jack plate on it cmc which I would not reccomend, they are slow.I just put trim tabs on it last week and it makes this boat ride even more awesome than it already did. Kenner also has a lifetime warranty on there hulls. You are right though the only draw back is the gas tanks. I only have a 25 gallon tank on mine I can pretty much run and fish all day on it, it doesnt burn a lot of gas. But I dont do the offshore thing either. It has been a great boat. Ive also looked at the blazer bays and I like that new 2420, that may be my next boat. Im sure you will be happy with which ever you choose. They are awsome in rough or shallow water. I would go non tunnel if I were you, they loose a lot of top end, and you only gain maybe 2 or 3 inches. Ive ran mine past crab traps that you can see the top of them barely out of the water. Good luck on you purchase.


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## wencketa (Jul 22, 2004)

The guys at whitt marine told me when I bought mine was for every 25hp you upgrade on a motor it will increase your speed 5mph. This does not always hold true for tunnel hull boats some of them are different annimals.


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## poppincork (Jun 28, 2004)

*Buying a new Boat...*

Back in March I was going through the same thing you are now... I wanted a 21 foot w/ 150 hp carbed Yamaha, all composite boat with a center console. I wanted the boat to be dry, 45-50 mph loaded, handle chop and fairly shallow water loaded, wide, good ride, lots of storage, two live wells, 50+ gallons of gas, hydraulic steering, Salt water aluminum tandem trailer w/ oil filled hubs, Bimini top, water pressure gage, water filter, onboard battery charger, swim out, lighted compass, battery selection switch, GPS/Depth combo, Anchor & line, Coast guard package, Standard wiring from the console to front and back for trolling motor plugs at a competitive price.

I was pricing and looking at the Sea Hunt, Blazer Bay, Kenner and Sea Pro because of their price range and similar dry lines semi vee and shallow fishing ...almost the same hull appearance. My Yamaha requirements, Dealer reps, standard equipment, and price lead me to buy the Sea Pro from Witts in Baytown. It has met my requirements and is a very fishable boat.. wider than the others and drove out for less than $26k dollars. They will add any accessories for a reasonable fixed price so I purchased the GPS combo separately.

Make your list with everything you want on your boat, get firm prices from all of your boat dealers.Then be patient and go to the boat show and you will save 5-7K dollars on packages and accessories and warrantys..Manufactures subsidze the deals for boat show equipment.. I was amazed the difference in boat shows and normal prices. At the Boat Show let them know your shopping their prices and keep making the rounds until they quit dealing.. be sure to go the last two days of the show.. The most shallow water I have been in was 15" by my depth monitor without touching bottom with everything full including 55 gallons of gas and 3 guys, with the motor tilted, on east bay south shore near Bolivar channel with three fishing.. Im not a skinny water guy...I'll get out and wade to fish shallow water and pick up oysters..I have the swim out so I can get back in! lol..Remember everything is negotiable! I writing this because I would have loved to see some ones info when I was trying to figure it all out... I went for practical and maintenance stuff and I will add my trolling motor later if I see a need for one. I could not justify stepping up to a 200 hp, 4 cycle @ $4K for my bay fishing..Good Luck find one that finds fish!


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## barbless (Jul 27, 2004)

*another question, Blazer 2170*

Thanks for all this great information. I'm still pretty serious about the Blazer 2170, non-tunnel, 10" jack plate and 150 engine. Now I'm thinking of getting the yamaha 4 stroke which is only 48 lbs more than than a 150 VMax. I know that my hole shot will suffer but for the few times it'd make a difference I'll be much better off in fuel economy, quietness, no smoke and maybe engine longevity. Am i missing something here? Will the boat run considerably slower with the 4 stroke? Thanks


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## Guest (Aug 31, 2004)

I was just in the market and I was looking at Kenners, Blazers, Pathfinders, Blue Waves, Shearwaters and the new K2. I know there is a big difference in price among those boats, but I was looking for the best bang for my buck and went with Pathfinder.

If you get a 10" jack plate I would definitely get a Bob's low water pick up. A lot of dealers won't put on a 10" jack plate because of the risk of overheating the motor. Also, the Blazer Bay people will tell you you don't need trim tab because of their pseudo swansoms, trust me you do, and will want them. They make a huge difference.

As for the difference between the 150 2-stroke and the 4-stroke, the 4 stroke shouldn't be that much different.

Here is Yamaha's performance bulletin for Pathfinders with 150 four strokes on their 22 foot V model:

http://www.yamaha-motor.com/products/otb/perfbull/marinepdfs/bulletin_otb_4StrokePerf_HPV6I4_150hp_03-50-PAT-C.pdf

Something you should know, and may have been mentioned in this thread, Blazer Bay copied exactly the hull design of the Pathfinders. But Blazer's weigh approximately 1000 pounds more than Pathfinders. This is good because they can be a little smoother riding. But bad because you are going to pay for that smoothness with a slower ride and a slower hole shot. With that hull design, I can guarantee you, you will be dry dry dry.

I just got a 2200 Pathfinder with a 200hpdi on it, and I ended up paying around 35, with an aluminum tandem axle trailer, with oil bath hubs and torsion springs, and trim tabs. From the prices I saw when I was shopping around, Blazer's were cheaper in price than Pathfinders, but when you look at both of them side by side, the Pathfinders don't have the mass-produced look and feel that the Blazer's have. That's my .02 american dollars anyway. As for the price of the 04 Pathfinders mentioned above, I can guarantee you that is the price without a trailer. You will pay 3k or more for a nice aluminum tandem axle trailer.

Anyway, good luck with your new purchase.


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## barbless (Jul 27, 2004)

*thanks Riptide*

for the 4 stroke info. Sounds like that may be the way for me to go. I also believe the Pathfinder would be the ultimate boat for me but I can't afford one and the resulting divorce would really be a show stopper. The Blazer 2220 is the Pathfinder knockoff, not the 2170 which I want. I looked at the specks and the Blazer 2220 is just 200 lbs heavier than the Pathfinder, not 1000, but it's a non-issue for me. Trim tabs sound like a good thing to have too. Thanks


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## jramm (Jun 15, 2004)

barbless,

this isn't exactly what you're looking for, but pretty close to what you've described. i just came across it browsing ronnie's marine. i thought the price might put it in the right ballpark.

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_detail.jsp?&units=Feet&checked_boats=1274067&slim=broker&&hosturl=ronniesmarine&&ywo=ronniesmarine&


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## barbless (Jul 27, 2004)

*thanks JRAMM*

nice looking boat and it seems like maybe not a bad price. But I don't have the funds at this point and I'm pretty sure I don't want a tunnel and liner. Thanks


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