# Tracking dog?



## burk09 (Nov 2, 2009)

I am thinking about getting another dog to help me track wouneded deer. What is the best breed of tracking dog yall think? I was thinking something like a blue lacey or a jack russell.


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## Brushpoppin (Jul 24, 2012)

IMHO it's more of the individual dog. The dog had to understand what you want to track. It's got to have the brains to take a track and stick with that track over several hundred yards. The most important thing make sure the pup is out of working stock. 
Junk+junk= someone else's junk
Do your homework, good luck!


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## Cynoscion (Jun 4, 2009)

Not trying to be discouraging by any means but here goes:

There is a reason that professional blood trailing dogs are for hire. It takes A LOT of work and A LOT of animals to make a good blood dog. The dog I am talking about here is not a dog that can find a dead deer at the end of a blood trail. Any (well almost any) dog can do that with a little training. The dog I am talking about (the one for hire) has the ability to trail individual deer even with no visible sign. He can trail that deer through junk (dry deer, hogs, javelinas, bunnies, etc.), stay focused and trail him until the end. At the end, he has to have the brains, bottom and grit to bay and catch that critter no matter how tough it is. This is A LOT to ask of a dog. What he is trailing generally outweighs him twice over and is fighting for his life. 

Again, there is a reason that REAL blood dogs are for hire. Very few people, regardless of what they may tell you, have this type of dog. 

I have been raising and running blood trailing dogs for about 12 years now. In those 12 years, I have culled A LOT more dogs than most would have the heart for. If they don't have it, they don't have it and there's nothing you can do about it.

Good luck with your pup. I mean this sincerely. I just want to point out the good/bad of what you are about to get into. 

Feel free to PM me with questions/comments/etc. I can send you plenty of pics of dogs that are gored from one end to the other, stomped into the dirt and pretty much dead. This alone is usually more than most can handle.

I hope I didn't come across too negative. Not my intentions at all.


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## mrsh978 (Apr 24, 2006)

x25 above


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## ShallowSport24 (Sep 15, 2009)

Cynoscion said:


> Not trying to be discouraging by any means but here goes:
> 
> There is a reason that professional blood trailing dogs are for hire. It takes A LOT of work and A LOT of animals to make a good blood dog. The dog I am talking about here is not a dog that can find a dead deer at the end of a blood trail. Any (well almost any) dog can do that with a little training. The dog I am talking about (the one for hire) has the ability to trail individual deer even with no visible sign. He can trail that deer through junk (dry deer, hogs, javelinas, bunnies, etc.), stay focused and trail him until the end. At the end, he has to have the brains, bottom and grit to bay and catch that critter no matter how tough it is. This is A LOT to ask of a dog. What he is trailing generally outweighs him twice over and is fighting for his life.
> 
> ...


 Excellent advise, read it twice and decide if you have the time and patience it takes to make a blood trailing dog. 
Good luck, and if you decide to try it, make a thread so we can watch the progress.


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## Jack's Pocket (Jul 16, 2014)

burk09 said:


> I am thinking about getting another dog to help me track wouneded deer. What is the best breed of tracking dog yall think? I was thinking something like a blue lacey or a jack russell.


I am a big fan of Jack Russell's.
That being said you really need to research the breed.
They are quirky little dogs and do not respond to any kind of mistreatment.They work off praise and reward. They don't get along with other critters around the house as a rule. You can not break them from killing anything that squeaks has fur or feathers. 
This is a 100 pound dog in a 15 pound package.
Have one laying in my lap right now.
A Russell needs a job and room to burn energy or you 
will be very unhappy as well as the dog.
They are extremely smart and are escape artist to boot. They are extremely loyal to the person they own
and completely fearless this is what gets them in trouble. Little dog laying in my lap can make a 2000
pound bull get on his tiptoes and put him anywhere I want him. She will retrieve and tree squirrels all day long.


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## Jack's Pocket (Jul 16, 2014)

Cynoscion said:


> Not trying to be discouraging by any means but here goes:
> 
> There is a reason that professional blood trailing dogs are for hire. It takes A LOT of work and A LOT of animals to make a good blood dog. The dog I am talking about here is not a dog that can find a dead deer at the end of a blood trail. Any (well almost any) dog can do that with a little training. The dog I am talking about (the one for hire) has the ability to trail individual deer even with no visible sign. He can trail that deer through junk (dry deer, hogs, javelinas, bunnies, etc.), stay focused and trail him until the end. At the end, he has to have the brains, bottom and grit to bay and catch that critter no matter how tough it is. This is A LOT to ask of a dog. What he is trailing generally outweighs him twice over and is fighting for his life.
> 
> ...


Well after this session tracking dogs will most likely be legal or illegal in all 254 counties for deer.
There is an unconstitutional law on the books that make it a state jail offense in some counties and legal in others.
The law violates Article 3 of the Texas Bill of Rights.
Our State Rep has legislation this session to make it one way or the other.


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## Cynoscion (Jun 4, 2009)

Jack's Pocket said:


> Well after this session tracking dogs will most likely be legal or illegal in all 254 counties for deer.
> There is an unconstitutional law on the books that make it a state jail offense in some counties and legal in others.
> The law violates Article 3 of the Texas Bill of Rights.
> Our State Rep has legislation this session to make it one way or the other.


Please post a link to the proposed legislation you're talking about. I would be very interested in reading it.

I know the dog men who worked to get our current wounded deer tracking law passed. They went through quite a bit to make it happen and I have a hard time believing it could be in jeopardy.


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## Cynoscion (Jun 4, 2009)

I just skimmed through Article 3 of our constitution. It discusses the legislative branch and how it may function in Texas. I fail to see how the wounded deer trailing law, passed by TPWD, has anything to do with Article 3 of our constitution but please give me your thoughts.


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## Ancuegar (Jul 5, 2012)

Cynoscion said:


> Please post a link to the proposed legislation you're talking about. I would be very interested in reading it.
> 
> I know the dog men who worked to get our current wounded deer tracking law passed. They went through quite a bit to make it happen and I have a hard time believing it could be in jeopardy.


i remember that fight! wouldnt surprise me if tracking dogs become legal in all counties. hopefully the number of time you hear, "smoked em and couldnt find em" goes down!

as far as a dog breed, you need to look at your situation. if you dont have a few hours a week to get one started, you better off finding some one to come track for you. if you dont plan on doing a few tracks a week, you better off finding someone with dogs. buying started dogs is a 50/50 chance the dog works for you. the best tracking dogs have worked for their owners their whole life. its hard to convice an older started dog that he needs to work for you.

my catahoulas were 4 mo old when i started them. by the time they were were 10 mo old they had been on over 50 tracks. by the end of their second year they were tracking machines. i prolly ran 100 tracks or more in 6 mo. its a god awful amount of work to start a dog. 
just my .02...


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## Cynoscion (Jun 4, 2009)

burk09 said:


> I am thinking about getting another dog to help me track wouneded deer. What is the best breed of tracking dog yall think? I was thinking something like a blue lacey or a jack russell.


Sorry I hijacked and never answered. Poppin is right about it being the individual and not the breed.

Of the 2 breeds you listed, you will likely find that most Lacy dogs lack "bottom" while most jack's lack the colder nose.

If you look at what the ones for hire use with success, you will find that most are cur crosses of some sort bred from a long lineage of sound trailing stock.


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## Big Guns 1971 (Nov 7, 2013)

A Texas lacy was the best tracking dog I have ever seen.


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## dbarham (Aug 13, 2005)

Blood hound!


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## Cynoscion (Jun 4, 2009)

Big Guns 1971 said:


> A Texas lacy was the best tracking dog I have ever seen.


Who's lacy dog was it if you don't mind me asking?


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## Cynoscion (Jun 4, 2009)

dbarham said:


> Blood hound!


All nose. No grit, no bottom.


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## dbarham (Aug 13, 2005)

Cynoscion said:


> All nose. No grit, no bottom.


Where we hunt the neighbors have both Blue lacy and bloods the warden calls them out to help find lost deer the bloods run circles around the lacy!


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## Ancuegar (Jul 5, 2012)

really need the cur in a dog to shut down a live one.


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## Cynoscion (Jun 4, 2009)

Ancuegar said:


> really need the cur in a dog to shut down a live one.


Exactly. This is bottom. Straight trailing, the hound should win hands down but it doesn't matter how well you trail a hurt deer if you can't get him bayed/caught.

I'm not a lacy fan if you couldn't tell. I think the breed as a whole is a lot of hype. I'm sure there are some outstanding individuals though.


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## Jack's Pocket (Jul 16, 2014)

Cynoscion said:


> Please post a link to the proposed legislation you're talking about. I would be very interested in reading it.
> 
> I know the dog men who worked to get our current wounded deer tracking law passed. They went through quite a bit to make it happen and I have a hard time believing it could be in jeopardy.


Rep White is the one working on the bill and I will try and get a copy for you.
The problem with the current law is Rep Jim Mc Reynolds got an unconstitutional law through the legislature on the use of dogs in East Texas. 
It is not because it is a dog law it is because it is a law that does not apply equally to all citizens of the
state. It can't be legal for you as a citizen of the state and I face state jail time for doing the same activity.


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## Brushpoppin (Jul 24, 2012)

Cynoscion said:


> Of the 2 breeds you listed, you will likely find that most Lacy dogs lack "bottom" while most jack's lack the colder nose.
> 
> If you look at what the ones for hire use with success, you will find that most are cur crosses of some sort bred from a long lineage of sound trailing stock.


Def a fan of a crossed up dog!

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## trout250 (Aug 24, 2005)

i think jack russels make better squirrel dogs than a dog looking for wounded deer.
at least mine would, he is a better lap dog than anything else.


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## Cynoscion (Jun 4, 2009)

Thanks for the information. I see your point. The original authors of the law never intended it to be that way. The exclusion of east Texas counties was written in by TPWD b/c of the history of deer hunting with dogs although the 2 dog rule should have negated this from the start.


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## cva34 (Dec 22, 2008)

I know little about Tracking dogs But it would seem to me HOUND is the key word...Best tracking dog I ever saw was a Dashhound..and master had nothing but praise about ; esp the short legs made them slow and easy to keep up with and downside was they are small and can cut through stuff you can't..


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## Cynoscion (Jun 4, 2009)

No doubt the wiener dog is an excellent tracker but you're comparing apples to oranges. What's that weiner dog gonna do when the trail ends at a live deer? Baying and catching is not in his bag of tricks so this deer gets away. Like I said in my original post, any dog can trail a deer. It takes a special dog to trail, bay and catch the right deer.


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## tro-trout (Apr 5, 2007)

Seen a black and tan coonhound work and he really impressed me. He was also great at baying hogs. But like said earlier tranings #1 regardless of breed.


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## Ancuegar (Jul 5, 2012)

takes a good dog with grit to handle a buck that still has 3 legs under him. thats where the grit of a cur comes into play. i fell into the lacy light a few years ago. they were sure good at baying one, but they lacked the size to handle one. my deer dogs were catahoulas. my female was prolly 75 pounds and my male was about 90. they would stretch out a mature buck.
personally if i ever started another tracking dog, i would go with a pair of big blackmouth curs. i had one that had range, bottom and grit.
you better off getting your pup from someone that has good tracking dogs. im a huge believer in getting dogs from dogs that do the specific task you want it to do. the breeder most likely done the culling to produce what he wants his dogs to do and hopfully saves you the misery of culling the bad ones.


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## burk09 (Nov 2, 2009)

Thanks for all the help guys


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## DEER DOG (Dec 19, 2014)

Cynoscion is pretty much on target when it comes to breed and what the dog needs to do! VERY GOOD ADVICE.
RJ send me some pics of the pup if you have any I would like to keep track of their progress heard the one in Frio county is doing very good.


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## Jack's Pocket (Jul 16, 2014)

trout250 said:


> i think jack russels make better squirrel dogs than a dog looking for wounded deer.
> at least mine would, he is a better lap dog than anything else.


You would be surprised they make great hog dogs.
Call them the swarm of bees. Use the Russells to bay and send in a catch dog.


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## rio frio (Jan 12, 2005)

*rio*

I don't profess to know anything about tracking dogs.... that said Ive worked with Rio (R)...this was his 7th 
lil wolf (L) is a work in progress...her #2 ...Ive had her 9 months now
I take him on a leash to the release spot... and away he goes...nose on the ground...huffing......


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## rio frio (Jan 12, 2005)

*Rio*

the moment of truth...paydirt !!! in the middle of a cedar thicket


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## txpitdog (Jul 17, 2006)

In my opinion, it depends on what you want from the dog as to which breed is best. Like others have said, some breeds don't have certain characteristics they want in a tracking dog. You have to decide if those characteristics are what you want and which ones are not so important. 

I have a 18mo blue lacy. It's my second one. She is undoubtedly the easiest dog to train I have ever worked with. Training her to blood trail was more a matter of us learning to work together than me teaching her what to do. I have had some great dogs, but I haven't had one that was so intensely eager to please as the lacy. She is extremely focused when it's time to work and doesn't get distracted by other dogs, decoy smells, or gaps in the trail. I don't hire my dog out, but I can certainly see where someone who does would want baying and catching as a hard requirement in addition to blood trailing to a dead animal. 

While there are plenty of people who use lacys to catch, I think lacys are more trailing and baying oriented. As a pup of just 3 months, my lacy herded our 65lb American Bulldog into a corner and then just barked and barked and nipped at it until the poor bulldog looked at me like "what the hell is this?" She still does it to our bulldog today. She also herds the kids away from the street, and the first time she laid eyes on a horse she herded it and four others into a group and made such a racket barking and racing back and forth at them that she kept them from running. No training on any of that. Dunno, maybe my dog is just a goof *** that can't keep her nose out of everyone else's business. 

The other tracking breed that interests me is the German Jagdterrier. I haven't owned one, but they appear to be smaller than a lacy and are more focused on trailing and catching and less on herding. These little dogs are complete fools when it comes to going after game. They don't think twice about getting on a hog that outweighs them 20 to 1. Relentless and fearless are under statements. I don't know much else about them, but I am very tempted to breed my lacy to one just to see what kind of tasmanian devil pups are produced. 

On the JRT I hunted at an exotics ranch where the owner used JRTs. They tracked as good as any dog I've ever seen do it, and went right to the aoudad when we had spent over an hour looking for it. 


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## Jack's Pocket (Jul 16, 2014)

Cynoscion said:


> Thanks for the information. I see your point. The original authors of the law never intended it to be that way. The exclusion of east Texas counties was written in by TPWD b/c of the history of deer hunting with dogs although the 2 dog rule should have negated this from the start.


I was a dog hunter for years and those days are long gone. Woods were not full of city hunters as today.
Most don't understand it was more to do with heritage and family getting together to hunt.
I am still an avid squirrel hunter with a dog.
Outlawing dogs in East Texas was about money as everything else in life. The old timber companies 
Carter and Kirby were on the way out as the tenant leases. The big timber players did away with the grazing "community pastures" as well. Wanted to get more per acre to from the city hunter.
This caused a lot of the ill feelings that went with the 
outlawing of the dogs. It wasn't as simple as being about dogs. Thousands of acres of woods had been fenced and that is where families ran their cattle and hogs. Land that peoples grandparents and parents that had 99 year lease for a dollar a year. Most of the tenant leases here were 40 acres and the tenants worked in some way for Carter or Kirby. 
went away. Land people had farmed and hunted for generations was being done away with. The old timber companies were seen as community the others outsiders.

Jim Mc Reynolds introduced a bill making using dogs in East Texas punishable by State Jail time.
This is where the bill became unconstitutional as the legislature can pass no law that does not apply equally to all citizens of the state.

Little history that I got to watch unfold.
The old community pasture joins my place spent 
many a day hunting or catching hogs in it.


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## Jungle_Jim (Nov 16, 2007)

My old cur Ben killed two whitetail bucks, one wasn't even wounded very bad. Ben was a great dog with kids and such but God help any animals....


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## Deerhunter88 (Aug 4, 2013)

I've only seen one dog work and trail a wounded deer. It was a female Doberman. Man was I impressed by this dog. I went home the next day and made a blood trail for my 5 year old beagle mix!! That Doberman is silent on the blood trail, once she picks up that the deer is still alive she starts barking. She has tracked and bayed two bucks for us over the last two years, that were both shot in the leg. Very impressive dog. The buck this year was a 200 pound 8 point that was shot in the leg. According to the GPS collar the event took place over 1200 yards.


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## rio frio (Jan 12, 2005)

back in the 60'... my uncle ran beagles in the bottoms of lake livingston... before it was flooded... good times... but ...you had to be quick


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## Jack's Pocket (Jul 16, 2014)

rio frio said:


> back in the 60'... my uncle ran beagles in the bottoms of lake livingston... before it was flooded... good times... but ...you had to be quick


We ran pointer/redbone cross just used 2 dogs
They would run a deer 1/2 mile and be right back to do it again all day all season. You hear those two you had better have the shotgun gun up and slack out of the trigger.
We got tired of messing with the hounds changed over to pointers with turkey bells on them at first. 
They wouldn't bark at all so we crossed them.Talk about build a fire under a deer those pointers could do it. What was fun to watch was one point a bunch of brush and then dive in deer would come out like he was shot out of a cannon.


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## wet dreams (May 21, 2004)

I have and will continue to trail any wounded deer in E Tex with my JR's on a leash, if I ever get caught AND wrote up for it I will go before a jury in County Court and take my chances. A GW who is now the boss over a district and still a personal friend told me YEARS ago if I ever need a dog to find a deer to go to his house and get his dog, put the harness on him and go find your deer, after just get him a biscuit and put him up, if I remember correct it was a Lop. I can remember my dad driving dirt roads looking for a track to put the hounds on....I can say as a kid its a HUGE rush hearing the dogs getting closer n closer then you hear the brush busting then BAM here comes the deer WFO


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## Jack's Pocket (Jul 16, 2014)

wet dreams said:


> I have and will continue to trail any wounded deer in E Tex with my JR's on a leash, if I ever get caught AND wrote up for it I will go before a jury in County Court and take my chances. A GW who is now the boss over a district and still a personal friend told me YEARS ago if I ever need a dog to find a deer to go to his house and get his dog, put the harness on him and go find your deer, after just get him a biscuit and put him up, if I remember correct it was a Lop. I can remember my dad driving dirt roads looking for a track to put the hounds on....I can say as a kid its a HUGE rush hearing the dogs getting closer n closer then you hear the brush busting then BAM here comes the deer WFO


I will too and fight to the end that I have the same right as any other hunter in the state
The part that PO's me is the part about having buckshot with a dog even when squirrel hunting. Till the day I die there will be two in my back pocket. Russell got into a litter of pigs few years back if it hadn't been for buckshot things would have gotten real nasty.
That old sow was trying to eat me and the dog. 
I guess the idiots in Austin have never been able to grasp they call it the Big Thicket for a reason.
I still do 95% of my deer hunting with a shotgun even in muzzle loader season 
I am still using one. Rifle isn't much good at 35 to 40 yards trying to shoot through saw briers.


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## wet dreams (May 21, 2004)

News to me about the blu whistlers and squirrel huntin BUT I carry them too, kinda like when the law was passed on NO sight lights on a bow for deer. A GW in San Aug Co. approached me to check, when he saw the sight lite, told me they were against the law for deer hunting and he would have to write me a ticket, when I told him I was hunting pigs I got that look.....BUT no ticket....


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