# .308 or 300 Blk, which one is more accurate?



## mas360 (Nov 21, 2006)

I am pondering on a choice between the Ruger New American Predator in .308 with 18" barrel (threaded for suppressor) and the Ruger New American Ranch in .300 Blk with 16" barrel. 

The .308 would have more flexibilty going from a full power round to a subsonic round for suppressor application. 

The .300 would be more specific for suppressor and appears to be better choice for a handloader. 

The question is which one would be a better choice for me, a handloader? is the .308 just as good as .300 Blk in accuracy department with subsonic load?

Your input regarding accuracy of one against the other is appreciated.


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## texasislandboy (Apr 28, 2012)

308 if your are going to shoot supers and subs. 300 BO if you are only shooting subs. I owned a 300ob and found it a bit weak for more than 200 yards while hunting. I now shoot a savage 10 FSP 308 and really like the gun will shoot almost any ammo at around 1-2 inch groups shoots under a inch with good ammo.


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## BradV (Jun 27, 2012)

The two rounds are in completely different leagues. .300 BLK is capable of producing around 1300 ft lbs of energy while the .308 will produce 2600+ ft lbs of energy. It has twice the power. What are you trying to do with them? Are you hunting whitetail? .300 BLK and .308 both have plenty power at typical Texas hunting ranges. Are you shooting targets at 600 yards? The .308 will be your bet for something along those lines. Are you shooting paper targets and pigs suppressed at 100yards? The 300BLK subsonic is the way to go there.

Having said that, Accuracy on both could be very similar. With a good ammo choice both rounds are capable of 1" groups at 100 yards or less. They are both also capable of poor groups if you do not spend the time developing loads and practicing.

The .300 BLK is a great cartridge for supersonic and subsonic work. It has a much smaller case capacity than a .308 and is very good for subsonic use. It also works very well with lighter bullets (125 gr) supersonic loaded to ~2200-2300 fps. I don't feel there is an issue shooting it to 200yds at game with the proper bullet choice.

I feel the .308 works better in the supersonic range. You can indeed load it subsonic, however most .308 factory barrels will be 1-12 or 1-10 twist, and bullet stability with heavy subsonics can be an issue. You would likely be limited to 175gr handloads, and may have some luck with the shorter round nose 200gr+ bullets. If you try to launch a 220gr SMK at 1050fps from a 1:12 barrel, you risk major damage to your can due to a baffle strike. 

I think the correct answer to your question is to just buy both.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

308


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## artys_only (Mar 29, 2005)

^^^^ this ^^^^^^ 308

But I am getting in to this close range stuff , 200 yards and under , so a blackout with night vision and suppressor 

All is well in Texas


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## mas360 (Nov 21, 2006)

I am going to use it mostly for night time hog hunt, range should be 100 yards most of the time. I am thinking the .308 gives more flexibility since I can only haul one rifle to the stand. It would be just a matter of changing out load and memorize where point of impacts are for sub and super without changing scope setting. 

Once you sight in WITHOUT suppressor, does the point of impact changes when you put on suppressor? does suppressor reduce accuracy?


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## BradV (Jun 27, 2012)

mas360 said:


> I am going to use it mostly for night time hog hunt, range should be 100 yards most of the time. I am thinking the .308 gives more flexibility since I can only haul one rifle to the stand. It would be just a matter of changing out load and memorize where point of impacts are for sub and super without changing scope setting.
> 
> Once you sight in WITHOUT suppressor, does the point of impact changes when you put on suppressor? does suppressor reduce accuracy?


My .308 does not have any noticable POI shift when attaching the suppressor. It is a 20" heavy barrel. My Blackout seems to have a ~2 MOA shift when attaching the same suppressor. It has a light profile 16" CMMG barrel. It will be rifle dependent. Accuracy for both of my rifles remained the same.

For night time hog hunting up to 100 yards either will work. Since you want to shoot subsonics just keep in mind that a 220gr bullet from a .308 at 1050fps is the same as the 220gr bullet from the .300 BLK at 1050fps. The difference is top end supersonic loads. Since you are dealing with 2 bolt rifles I think the .308 will do great for you. If you have an AR-15 I would build a .300 BLK upper for it as well


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## mas360 (Nov 21, 2006)

I decide to go with bolt gun for the .300 Blk to get maximum sound suppression and also easier to retrieve brass. 

Does anyone have any experience with the Ruger New American Ranch rifle in 300 Blk? it looks quite good and comes with threaded muzzle end for suppressor. I had bad experience with Ruger 77 and Ruger No.1 accuracy back in the late 80's and early 90's. Since then I have not touched any centerfire Ruger rifle. I wonder if the New American models come with better barrels than the Rugers back then.


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## artys_only (Mar 29, 2005)

My 308 had a.25 shift south , once you shoot a weapon suppressed you will never go back

All is well in Texas


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## muney pit (Mar 24, 2014)

mas360 said:


> Once you sight in WITHOUT suppressor, does the point of impact changes when you put on suppressor? does suppressor reduce accuracy?


I have seen some have very little shift and some with 8"+ @ 100yards. As long as it's consistent you just account for it. Another thing is every threaded can has had less shift than any qd style i've ran accross.


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## Bird (May 10, 2005)

I have both, hand load and shoot both super and subs with suppressor. For all around only going to buy one rifle, then get the 308. It is far more versatile than the 300 blk, especially when talking supers for hunting anything in Texas and it is easy to handload subs. That being said, I really like my 300blk and shoot super and subs although mostly subs and always with a can on the barrel. Neither round in the subsonic velocity range produces spectacular accuracy although my groups avg about 1" at 50 yds. Assuming you are using the same weight bullet, they both have the same energy (around 500ft/lbs muzzle) About 80 yards is max safe hunting range. For effective hunting you really should have a good range finder and a ballistics chart for the load you are hunting.


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## mas360 (Nov 21, 2006)

All .30 cal bullets are designed for velocity much higher than 1100 ft/sec, so, using in blackout cartridge I should not expect any mushrooming upon impact, right? the shock exclusively hinges on bullet frontal area. If this is true, isn't it a perfect round for heavy cast bullet used in a bolt rifle?


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## Bird (May 10, 2005)

mas360 said:


> All .30 cal bullets are designed for velocity much higher than 1100 ft/sec, so, using in blackout cartridge I should not expect any mushrooming upon impact, right? the shock exclusively hinges on bullet frontal area. If this is true, isn't it a perfect round for heavy cast bullet used in a bolt rifle?


I think the number is closer to 1600fps but it doesn't matter when talking subs. The ticket is using Lehigh Defense 194grain Maximum Expansion or the 170grain Controlled Chaos bullets. Pricey?...yes, but performance at sub sonic velocities is impressive. Cast bullets, like the 240grain from Cast boolits, is a decent performer regarding expansion at sub velocities but I wouldn't expect a big mushroom either. More so, less expensive than Sierra, Hornady or Barnes bullets.


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## mas360 (Nov 21, 2006)

At 1,600 ft/sec it breaks sound barrier and causes a crack. 

Is there any bullet capable of expansion at below 1,000 ft/sec?


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## Wado (May 15, 2011)

mas360 said:


> At 1,600 ft/sec it breaks sound barrier and causes a crack.
> 
> Is there any bullet capable of expansion at below 1,000 ft/sec?


 1128 fps is the exact answer at sea level at 70 degrees F for sub sonic.


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## Bird (May 10, 2005)

mas360 said:


> At 1,600 ft/sec it breaks sound barrier and causes a crack.
> 
> Is there any bullet capable of expansion at below 1,000 ft/sec?


www.lehighdefense.com
194 grain Maximum Expansion bullets will open up over 1" at sub velocities


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## BradV (Jun 27, 2012)

You are correct in that you will not get any mushrooming at subsonic speeds. You may very well get bullet tumbling though. Like Bird said, the Lehigh defense rounds will expand when subsonic. I have also heard the 90gr hornady xtp .308 pistol bullet will expand at this speed. These can be extremely quiet behind a charge of trail boss in the BLK. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/72...-hollow-point-box-of-100?cm_vc=ProductFinding


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## dinmax82 (May 15, 2013)

One of those "I heard from a friend story" but shooting 300Blk suppressed has a good chance of not penetrating the thick hide of some of the Texas hogs.


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## BradV (Jun 27, 2012)

dinmax82 said:


> One of those "I heard from a friend story" but shooting 300Blk suppressed has a good chance of not penetrating the thick hide of some of the Texas hogs.


Very very doubtful that you will not get penetration. That is a heavy heavy bullet. The last hog I shot was behind the ear and the subsonic round went in, tumbled, and came out sideways creating a nasty wound. The light weight load I mentioned earlier may not penetrate completely, but a headshot would still take a hog down.


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## mas360 (Nov 21, 2006)

No doubt a head shot would take down a feral hog. I shot a 120 lbs sow in the ear with a .22 RF at 50 yards distance and it dropped dead on the spot. The question is a 300 blk capable of taking down such a sow with a body shot at 50 to 100 yards range. Many people say it is good out to 200 yards, but looking at a 220 grains bullet at 1100 ft/sec muzzle velocity it is barely a tad more powerful than a .45ACP.....does it really have enough power to take down a hog at 100 yards?


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## muney pit (Mar 24, 2014)

dinmax82 said:


> One of those "I heard from a friend story" but shooting 300Blk suppressed has a good chance of not penetrating the thick hide of some of the Texas hogs.


The few hogs i have shot around my place with 308 subs have all killed them. Usally within 100 yards are my shots. People forget spears and arrows ( which is around 50 lbs IIRC) have killed all sort of beast for 100's of years before us "smart" people showed up with guns.


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## cerralvo78 (Mar 6, 2013)

308.....

If you reload...On this caliber you will find a lot of resources to hand load......
My load is 
:brew2:Varget 42gn, Lapua brass, 175 SMK, WLR:brew2:
<><><> 0.3" at 100 & less than 3" at 300 all day long.<><><>


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## Bird (May 10, 2005)

Wado said:


> 1128 fps is the exact answer at sea level at 70 degrees F for sub sonic.


I should have clarified that I was talking about minimum velocity for expansion. Most rifle bullets, 30 cal in this case, are designed to expand at velocities over 1600fps


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## Wado (May 15, 2011)

I got what you were saying, I just looked up where sub sonic was because I didn't know myself. I know the .308 Winchester Power Points I loaded need to hit 1700 to expand. I would imagine they expand at a slower velocity but not to the extent Winchester claims. Before I moved all of my reloading stuff to my place my partner I loaded with used thousands of Power Points. Mostly 7mm and .308. He sent recovered bullets from pig kills to Winchester thinking he would get some gratis. Never happened. A lot of animals got put down with them with his hand loads. Bullets are like ice cream, depends on what flavor you like.


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## mas360 (Nov 21, 2006)

muney pit said:


> The few hogs i have shot around my place with 308 subs have all killed them. Usally within 100 yards are my shots. People forget spears and arrows ( which is around 50 lbs IIRC) have killed all sort of beast for 100's of years before us "smart" people showed up with guns.


Were those body shots or head shots?


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## muney pit (Mar 24, 2014)

mas360 said:


> Were those body shots or head shots?


I go for the typical shoulder shot. Unless its head on. Those 220 round nose are like sledg hammers. Im guessing because they dont expand so they just go straight threw and they break the hell out of the shoulders.

Eta. I thought i had some better pics of some pigs we shot. These were years ago i believe.


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## muney pit (Mar 24, 2014)

Found this one too. I believe this on was a head shot.


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## Jack's Pocket (Jul 16, 2014)

I don't get the infatuation with this round.


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## Wado (May 15, 2011)

Jack's Pocket said:


> I don't get the infatuation with this round.


Infatuation is falling in love with or becoming extremely interested in someone or something for a short time.
In my case it's not an infatuation. I replaced my 7.62 x 39 weapons with this caliber mainly because of the wider selection of loading components. I know there are guys loading 7.62 x 39 with .308 projectiles but I never did and there is a multitude of 300 suppressed shooters with load data galore. And plenty of super loads. You can set an upper on an AR, I just got one for around 700 bucks, shoot it single shot or bolt. I did have an infatuation with the 7.62, four times. An SKS, A Colt 7.62 Sportster, an Accuracy Systems Mini 30 (nice) and a CZ 7.62 Carbine bolt (never fired). I had dies, brass and projectiles to load and never used them. A love affair that never blossomed. Did I dump the little Russian too quick? So far I am liking the 300, and she's number ten of my keepers. Low maintenance too.


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## jaime1982 (Aug 25, 2009)

Jack's Pocket said:


> I don't get the infatuation with this round.


Have you ever shot one suppressed with subsonic rounds?


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## Jack's Pocket (Jul 16, 2014)

jaime1982 said:


> Have you ever shot one suppressed with subsonic rounds?


I have shot suppressed rounds.
Not subsonic see no need just me.


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## Bird (May 10, 2005)

Jack's Pocket said:


> I have shot suppressed rounds.
> *Not subsonic see no need just me*.


You're missing the whole point then. It's fun shooting subs through a silencer. All the reason I need. That's just me though...:wink:


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