# Odd request from Game Warden? - opinions requested



## speckle-catcher (May 20, 2004)

My brother called me today to ask if I had ever heard of this...

He was hunting with "Joe" on property owned by "Mike" who is Joe's father. "Farmer Brown" ranches/manages the land and is allowed to hunt on it also. Guests of Mike and Joe are allowed to hunt also.

During the â€œLate doe and antlerlessâ€ season, Mike, Joe and my brother camped out (no cabin on the property), and my brother took an antlerless deer. As they broke camp on Saturday after lunch, Farmer Brown arrived. Farmer Brown shot a deer sometime that afternoon after the others had left.

Apparently that same weekend, someone shot at a deer, missed, and hit a building on a neighboring property. Iâ€™ve been on the property and recall it is a rather dilapidated old house.

The neighbors were quite upset about it and contacted a game warden. Game warden in turn make contact with Farmer Brown. Farmer Brown called Mike. Mike calls Joe, and Joe called my brother. 

The game warden has requested that all persons that hunted the ranch that weekend bring the gun and ammo back to the property (2 hours away), so that he can â€œcomplete his investigationâ€

Farmer Brown basically said that he was likely for taking the shot and hit the building.

Is this normal?


----------



## mrsh978 (Apr 24, 2006)

Csi GW. Trying to match projectile with projector..... Kinda like asking for a margarita machine on titanic


----------



## AvianQuest (Feb 7, 2006)

Seems to be the only way to find out who the guilty person is, or it could even show that none of you guys were at fault.

The problem of not being able to do this shortly after the occurrence is that there is no guarantee that you guys will bring the actual rifles used.

It's against the law to allow a bullet or shot to cross a property boundary, unless you had permission to do so. Then there's possible reckless endangerment. 

Your best option would be to take a bus to the Mexican border, cross and take a bus all the way to Belize. Don't use any credit cards along the way and avoid having to show your ID and Passport as much as possible. Then pick up another bus to Placencia, catch a ride to the bank of the Monkey River, signal for Wilfredo to bring his boat over and take you to Monkey River Town. Tip him well and ask that if someone comes looking for you that he doesn't remember anyone of your description coming that way. After than, just fade into the jungle while watching out for jaguars and Fer-de-Lance as much as possible. With luck you will run into a Mayan woman who will take you in.


----------



## daddyeaux (Nov 18, 2007)

lmao.......that's good AQ
But you left out after being in Monkey town for a year pay thousands to a coyote to smuggle you back across the Texas border.


----------



## AvianQuest (Feb 7, 2006)

daddyeaux said:


> lmao.......that's good AQ
> But you left out after being in Monkey town for a year pay thousands to a coyote to smuggle you back across the Texas border.


Naw, you don't want to ever come back and face those charges. The jungle is really nice once you get used to it. For example if you touch a  Black Poisonwood tree you will plead for something kill you quick, but those trees never grow far from a Gumbo Limbo Tree which is the antidote.

As far as Mayan women, they know how to cook and have mostly pleasant personalities.


----------



## rut-ro (Oct 12, 2008)

Sounds legit to me. He's just showing due diligence.


----------



## speckle-catcher (May 20, 2004)

AvianQuest said:


> Seems to be the only way to find out who the guilty person is, or it could even show that none of you guys were at fault.
> 
> The problem of not being able to do this shortly after the occurrence is that there is no guarantee that you guys will bring the actual rifles used.
> 
> ...


I was not there for the weekend in question. That's the first thing I thought my brother said - was that I needed to drive 500 miles over there to show the GW my rifle.

I did hunt this property back at Thanksgiving, from the same blind that the shooter would have to have shot from to hit that building. You'd darn near have to shoot through a tree to hit the building. The blind overlooks a small pasture about 200 yds wide to the fence. The building is probably 50 feet on the other side of the fence.

I know my brother wouldn't do something that would cause him problems. He's a stamp collector and doesn't want to put that at risk.

I wonder if he can call and talk to the GW instead of making a 4-hour round trip drive to meet him.


----------



## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

Call the GW. See what he says. Can't hurt. Worse case he still will have to go.


----------



## wal1809 (May 27, 2005)

If you choose to,cooperate with the investigation tell him to come get it. It is not your obligation to deliver evidence to the state. Personally I would make him get a warrant.


----------



## cadjockey (Jul 30, 2009)

Tell the GW you feel heartfelt sorrow for the neighbor's shack and hope the perpetrators will be apprehended but he'll need a warrant and a road trip if he wishes to complete his investigation.


----------



## Folsetth (Jan 18, 2007)

Your brother isn't obligated to take the gun to the GW. However he should in good faith, contact the GW and offer to meet up with him at your brothers convenience .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## spurgersalty (Jun 29, 2010)

wal1809 said:


> If you choose to,cooperate with the investigation tell him to come get it. It is not your obligation to deliver evidence to the state. Personally I would make him get a warrant.





cadjockey said:


> Tell the GW you feel heartfelt sorrow for the neighbor's shack and hope the perpetrators will be apprehended but he'll need a warrant and a road trip if he wishes to complete his investigation.


Bingo


----------



## AvianQuest (Feb 7, 2006)

speckle-catcher said:


> He's a stamp collector and doesn't want to put that at risk.


Oh my gosh, you didn't say he was a stamp collector. That changes everything.



> I wonder if he can call and talk to the GW instead of making a 4-hour round trip drive to meet him.


Would highly recommend that. Or maybe he can set up a meeting with a local warden to check your guns. Giving him a hard time and inviting a warrant and a search of your house won't help matters.


----------



## rut-ro (Oct 12, 2008)

wal1809 said:


> If you choose to,cooperate with the investigation tell him to come get it. It is not your obligation to deliver evidence to the state. Personally I would make him get a warrant.


Really this makes no sense. Why would you make him get a warrant for anything. He can get a warrant to a residence to anyone that was there. In the warrant he will ask to seize ALL guns to do ballistics testing. You will not get them back until after the investigation. if you want to be without your guns for a long time, go ahead and make him get a warrant, its pretty easy to articulate , and remember the pen is mightier than the sword.


----------



## AvianQuest (Feb 7, 2006)

rut-ro said:


> Really this makes no sense. Why would you make him get a warrant for anything. He can get a warrant to a residence to anyone that was there. In the warrant he will ask to seize ALL guns to do ballistics testing. You will not get them back until after the investigation. if you want to be without your guns for a long time, go ahead and make him get a warrant, its pretty easy to articulate , and remember the pen is mightier than the sword.


^^^^
This


----------



## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Ok will one of yall fess up and solve the case and let everyone else relax. ? Otherwise it could turn out to be a big long expensive mess.


----------



## Raven (Jan 22, 2009)

AQ--
I keep getting a message that I have to spread green around before I give you any more... sorry.


----------



## broadonrod (Feb 26, 2010)

AvianQuest said:


> Seems to be the only way to find out who the guilty person is, or it could even show that none of you guys were at fault.
> 
> The problem of not being able to do this shortly after the occurrence is that there is no guarantee that you guys will bring the actual rifles used.
> 
> ...


That Sir is your best post ever! Lmao! Green coming atcha!


----------



## Flippin' Crazee (May 14, 2015)

If you were the one that made the shot, you would have to be an idiot to take the same rifle back that you made the shot with. Surely the Game Warden is smart enough to realize this. I'm amazed that he would even make that request.


----------



## wet dreams (May 21, 2004)

I had asked the boss warden here about shooting into another property, he said it was against the law BUT the only way to prove it would be to have the bullet. Sounds like they have the bullet but I failed to ask him what would be the next step....


----------



## 6.5 shooter dude (Jan 8, 2008)

Who ever hunted in that blind and shot in that direction needs to call the GW and fess up. Just get it over with.


----------



## Bayoutalker (Jun 30, 2012)

speckle-catcher said:


> [
> 
> Farmer Brown basically said that he was likely for taking the shot and hit the building.


Looks like someone already confessed.


Flippin' Crazee said:


> If you were the one that made the shot, you would have to be an idiot to take the same rifle back that you made the shot with. Surely the Game Warden is smart enough to realize this. I'm amazed that he would even make that request.


He is probably trying to appease the landowners. They are probably making his life hell.


CHARLIE said:


> Ok will one of yall fess up and solve the case and let everyone else relax. ? Otherwise it could turn out to be a big long expensive mess.


Cliff


----------



## 8-count (Jul 3, 2008)

Just as it was mentioned earlier.....He's probably just trying to ease the mind of an upset landowner. If you call and just talk to him I bet you'll be suprised as to what yall can work out on the phone. Me personally.....I'd make the 2hr drive. Turn it into a little overnight roadtrip if you want. Show him that it your gun that fired the shot and put this behind you once and for all. Especially if you plan on hunting the property again.


----------



## Bazooka (Dec 10, 2011)

AvianQuest said:


> Your best option would be to take a bus to the Mexican border, cross and take a bus all the way to Belize. Don't use any credit cards along the way and avoid having to show your ID and Passport as much as possible. Then pick up another bus to Placencia, catch a ride to the bank of the Monkey River, signal for Wilfredo to bring his boat over and take you to Monkey River Town. Tip him well and ask that if someone comes looking for you that he doesn't remember anyone of your description coming that way. After than, just fade into the jungle while watching out for jaguars and Fer-de-Lance as much as possible. With luck you will run into a Mayan woman who will take you in.





speckle-catcher said:


> I know my brother wouldn't do something that would cause him problems. He's a stamp collector and doesn't want to put that at risk.


^THIS is why I come here every day^

No better comedy writers on the planet than this bunch.


----------



## texwake (Aug 17, 2010)

How much damage is on the structure??? Is the other land owner just seeking repairs? I just don't see how the game warden can prove negligence, you could just say it was possibly a ricochet. (saying that without seeing the scene).

Unless the land owner is just irrational, how about just working it out with the guy.

One idea I had to not have to drive all that way (if he really wants to see your guns) is to talk to the game warden and bring up the idea of working with the game warden where your located now and surrendering the guns to him. That way they can send him ballistics or whatever he wants.


----------



## Steven H (Jan 15, 2006)

cadjockey said:


> Tell the GW you feel heartfelt sorrow for the neighbor's shack and hope the perpetrators will be apprehended but he'll need a warrant and a road trip if he wishes to complete his investigation.


Plain and simple, along with other posters have to agree how would GW know that gun you brought is one you had with you. I would cooperate though, I doubt he could get a probable cause warrant for this type of incident. But if he knows names, and you still hunt down there, likely he wont forget who you are, just sayin.


----------



## wal1809 (May 27, 2005)

Jay Baker said:


> Who ever hunted in that blind and shot in that direction needs to call the GW and fess up. Just get it over with.


That is exactly what should happen. Somebody knows they did it.


----------



## wal1809 (May 27, 2005)

rut-ro said:


> Really this makes no sense. Why would you make him get a warrant for anything. He can get a warrant to a residence to anyone that was there. In the warrant he will ask to seize ALL guns to do ballistics testing. You will not get them back until after the investigation. if you want to be without your guns for a long time, go ahead and make him get a warrant, its pretty easy to articulate , and remember the pen is mightier than the sword.


It makes sense because a lot of men fought, got wounded, mutilated and died for that very reason.

I have been cop for too long. If he was my family, I would tell him to never ever willfully invite the state into your life. Once they are there, you WILL NOT get rid of them.

So far as what I read, the GW does not have enough information to go to a judge and ask a judge to sign a warrant to search a house 4 hours from the crime scene, confiscate property and remove it as evidence.

If I did the shooting, I would call the owner, confess and apologize then face whatever comes next. That is what men do. So far as the GW , he better have a warrant valid on its face.


----------



## daddyeaux (Nov 18, 2007)

I'm still searching for that website of Mayan brides willing to come to the US.


----------



## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

I think a lesson needs to be learned. If your hunting and rounds are hitting nearby homes you are going to end up killing someone.

With that being said there is no point in volunteering evidence that could be used against you. Since no-one was hurt I would chalk this up as a lesson learned and bypass making LE jobs easy to prosecute you.

One mans opinion


----------



## fy0834 (Jan 18, 2011)

I would call the GW and offer to cooperate... And tell him where I was hunting in relation to the house, the caliber rifle I was using and whether or not shots were fired. 
I would offer up where you thought the shot came from (stand) while keeping in mind his request was probably intended to promote discussion anyway.
I have found that time and distance usually solves a lot.

A cooperative spirit goes a long way. I'm not saying drive and deliver your firearm.


----------



## AvianQuest (Feb 7, 2006)

daddyeaux said:


> I'm still searching for that website of Mayan brides willing to come to the US.


No website, but they are lined up ready to go.


----------



## daddyeaux (Nov 18, 2007)

WOW!! How could you ever decide??


----------



## Brute (Apr 29, 2009)

I would not drive 2 hrs to appease him. Tell him you will mail it to him. Mail him a Rossi single shot in case he decides to keep it.

He's not that hard core about it because yall could all show up with random rifles and he would never know.

Really... Bring the gun and ammo you used to commit a crime... ya Ok... Ill do that LOL


----------



## speckle-catcher (May 20, 2004)

without quoting a bunch of posts, here's an update.

1. some people obviously have no idea what a "stamp collector" is. Here's a clue:







- my brother would not do anything to put his items at risk.

2. There's a picture of my brother on his facebook posed holding the rifle he used with the deer he shot. Bringing a different rifle is out of the question. If GW found that photo, my brother could potentially end up in much more trouble than for simply not cooperating with an investigation. Refer back to post about stamp collection.

3. turns out my brother has a lodge brother that is a GW in their county. He's going to talk with that GW and see if the GW's can come up with an agreeable solution.

4. he's also going to call the original GW and offer to meet where my brother lives for GW to inspect weapon and ammo.

5. understandably, he really does not want the GW to pull a warrant to come to his home and inspect his safe/home. so he'll do whatever is required to avoid that.

6.He'll make the drive out to the ranch if necessary. He's good friends with the owner and his son, and definitely doesn't want to do anything to put them in a bad position.

The point of this thread was really this - is this SOP for a GW investigation? Have you ever heard of something like this?

"mike" and "joe" think that the neighbour are selling day hunts and allowing hunters to harvest bucks that are not legal for their county. If they were doing something like that, it also makes sense to me that they would NOT want a GW sniffing about their place over this issue. But that's a matter for another time and thread...


----------



## Brute (Apr 29, 2009)

.... and that is why you don't put stuff on facebook. :headknock


----------



## speckle-catcher (May 20, 2004)

I don't know the security level of his page, but mine is set that only my friends can see it...and I'm selective of who my friends are.

There's nothing illegal AT ALL in his photo.


----------



## 41082 (Dec 19, 2008)

wal1809 said:


> It makes sense because a lot of men fought, got wounded, mutilated and died for that very reason.
> 
> I have been cop for too long. If he was my family, I would tell him to never ever willfully invite the state into your life. Once they are there, you WILL NOT get rid of them.
> 
> ...


x2


----------



## Pocketfisherman (May 30, 2005)

Flippin' Crazee said:


> If you were the one that made the shot, you would have to be an idiot to take the same rifle back that you made the shot with. Surely the Game Warden is smart enough to realize this. I'm amazed that he would even make that request.


Has nothing to do with it. The Game Warden wants a face to face with the potential guilty party to look them in the eye, look for tells, and decide who to press further with his questioning.


----------



## Newbomb Turk (Sep 16, 2005)

If the bullet hit your house do you still think that would be an odd request or tell everyone the Game Warden was really doing his job?


----------



## jdusek (Apr 7, 2006)

Makes total sense to me


----------



## fy0834 (Jan 18, 2011)

Newbomb Turk said:


> If the bullet hit your house do you still think that would be an odd request or tell everyone the Game Warden was really doing his job?


 Just another thought... Not a game violation... call the sheriff's department.


----------



## AvianQuest (Feb 7, 2006)

speckle-catcher said:


> I don't know the security level of his page, but mine is set that only my friends can see it...and I'm selective of who my friends are.
> 
> There's nothing illegal AT ALL in his photo.


You would be amazed....actually dismayed....at the number of people who are able to see everything you have on Facebook if they have a reason to do so, plus everything is collected and stored by the Feds. Google "Domestic Spying Center"


----------



## Jamie (Aug 2, 2011)

my response would be

"Am I under arrest?"

"am I breaking a law by not driving 2 hrs to meet you?"

If the answer to both those questions is "No"

I'd say.."I respectfully decline your request"


----------



## AvianQuest (Feb 7, 2006)

fy0834 said:


> Just another thought... Not a game violation... call the sheriff's department.


Once you get out in "the sticks" there is a log of overlap with law enforcement. The homeowners may have even called the sheriff's department or 911 and they sent the warden.


----------



## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Jamie said:


> my response would be
> 
> "Am I under arrest?"
> 
> ...


You got something to hide ??

I really think the GW is not going too much further with the investigation. But saying that he could get subpoena issued for you to come and maybe go to court and swear to tell the truth. Now what ? Hopefully the guy who shot the house will fess up and take care of the issue. Why some folks make mountains out of mole hills amazes me.


----------



## daddyeaux (Nov 18, 2007)

speckle-catcher said:


> without quoting a bunch of posts, here's an update.
> 
> 1. some people obviously have no idea what a "stamp collector" is. Here's a clue:
> 
> ...


----------



## daddyeaux (Nov 18, 2007)

If I was a stamp collector that would be the stamp I would want to collect.


----------



## wal1809 (May 27, 2005)

Pocketfisherman said:


> Has nothing to do with it. The Game Warden wants a face to face with the potential guilty party to look them in the eye, look for tells, and decide who to press further with his questioning.


He wants the evidence plain and simple. He has only stated, through a third party, that he wants people to bring in their weapons. He hasn't demanded and can't demand it. That is why he said "He wants". He can say that all day long and it is OK. He is doing a good job, staying within the boundaries of an investigation and doing all he can to complete a thorough investigation. I can assure you, he cannot go to a judge and swear that he knows where evidence in relation to the crime is located. He can't say "Judge I am not sure which weapon was used, who used it or where it is located but I want to search bill, Jim and Larry's homes".

I been skinning this pig a long long time and that is simply not how it works. You have to have something to link a man to a crime long before you apply for a warrant and go busting in the door. Our entire foundation of law is built on this. Simply because he was hunting a place does in no way ties him crime so far as a warrant to search his home.


----------



## Ivabigun (Feb 19, 2015)

I have always heard that a Texas Game Warden does not need a search warrant to search your house, car trunk, or anything that is why there is always a game warden with DPS at roadblocks for DL checks. I had a friend that shot a quail out of season while dove hunting a few years ago . He cleaned all his birds in the pasture and drove home and about an hour later a GW along with the sheriff knocked on his door and proceeded to check his freezer and found the bird and fined him for it. No search warrant , but I think he let them in without it.


----------



## wal1809 (May 27, 2005)

Ivabigun said:


> I have always heard that a Texas Game Warden does not need a search warrant to search your house, car trunk, or anything that is why there is always a game warden with DPS at roadblocks for DL checks. I had a friend that shot a quail out of season while dove hunting a few years ago . He cleaned all his birds in the pasture and drove home and about an hour later a GW along with the sheriff knocked on his door and proceeded to check his freezer and found the bird and fined him for it. No search warrant , but I think he let them in without it.


I am sure the game warden said "I WANT to check your freezer" and they let him. An officer does not need a search warrant if you give him consent. That is why they ask for permission.


----------



## fy0834 (Jan 18, 2011)

wal1809 said:


> I am sure the game warden said "I WANT to check your freezer" and they let him. An officer does not need a search warrant if you give him consent. That is why they ask for permission.


 I was under this assumption as well, as Law enforcement on occasion calls GW as to avoid having to secure a warrant.


----------



## Ivabigun (Feb 19, 2015)

If you google it you will find that they can search your home, vehicle, property without a search warrant if they think there is probable cause (game Violation). They have more authority than Texas Rangers or any peace officer.


----------



## daddyeaux (Nov 18, 2007)

But they MUST have probable cause. Those quail feathers mixed with those dove feathers was probable cause.


----------



## wal1809 (May 27, 2005)

http://www.statesman.com/news/sports/leggett-game-wardens-powers-shrouded-in-mystery/nSspp/


----------



## daddyeaux (Nov 18, 2007)

That's good reading Wal........


----------



## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Daddyeaux

Someone shooting into your house and you dont want to get to the bottom of it ? My My


----------



## speckle-catcher (May 20, 2004)

daddyeaux said:


> If I was a stamp collector that would be the stamp I would want to collect.


 they are quite fun.

the stamps are cheap...ammo is expensive.


----------



## daddyeaux (Nov 18, 2007)

Charlie, if you read the first post it was a building on his property next to a fence between the two properties. It was not his house. If it was my house yes I would want to get to the bottom of it.


----------



## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Ok less than your house but shooting into a buildiog on my property I would want to know. All I see is lack of respect towards the GW a law enforcement officer. He's dammed if he does and dammed if he doesent. But its been that way for many years. Poor law enforcement officer, to your face they are your friends as soon as your turn your back they cuss you. But thats normal for any lawman but they continue to try and do their job. Jus sayin.


----------



## bigfishtx (Jul 17, 2007)

daddyeaux said:


> That's good reading Wal........


Yep, and the simple truth is they have to follow the constitution.


----------



## wal1809 (May 27, 2005)

How is it lacking respect to the game warden if a person decided to follow law? You have rights granted to you by men getting their guts blown out on a battlefield. To not utilized these rights granted to you by these men is what is disrespectful. To not even care enough to know what rights a person does it does not have is disrespectful. The GW will be alright, I assure he can take it. I assure you he knows the deal. He is following law by asking for evidence not demanding evidence.

Look at it this way. What a person gives to a cop is fair game so far as evidence. On a traffic stop if I suspected dope in a car, while speaking to the driver I would all of a sudden look at something in the car and then back at the driver's eyes. I would say "Are you sure there is no dope" then look back at the same spot I had picked. I can't tell you how many times the driver would just hand it over. At booking it would usually hit them. They would ask how I knew there was dope because I could not have seen it in the glove box, center console ect. My answer was "I didn't know you just gave it to me". What I did was perfectly legal and in accordance with his rights as a citizen. On the other hand I had dozens tell me to go mate myself to put it nicely. I actually appreciate the ones that paid respect to those that gave them that right, by taking the time to learn their rights and having the nuts to use them.


----------



## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

I really think the GW is just rattling the trees to see what falls out; he's not going to spend the time, paperwork, or money on a ballistics testing for so,etching like this, assuming there's even enough of a bullet left to do so. (Doubtful...).

He's just running this " further investigation" up the flagpole to see if anybody says "yeah, it was me", so he can write the ticket and go about his business..


----------



## mrsh978 (Apr 24, 2006)

^^^if the GW had " something " , there would be no requests. Just a visit of party involved. He's trolling for info - he has nothing solid to go on . They don't send in rsvp s to suspects house .


----------



## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

> I have always heard that a Texas Game Warden does not need a search warrant to search your house


You were told wrong. The GW doesn't trump your Constitutional Rights...to come into your home he needs your permission or a warrant, same as any other LEO.

No I've never heard of a GW doing something like this.

I'd just call him on the phone and discuss with him and see what the options are besides driving 500 miles.

TH


----------



## texwake (Aug 17, 2010)

Trouthunter said:


> You were told wrong. The GW doesn't trump your Constitutional Rights...to come into your home he needs your permission or a warrant, same as any other LEO.
> 
> No I've never heard of a GW doing something like this.
> 
> ...


He's not totally incorrect. Game Wardens have the most power out of any law enforcement. They do not need probable cause to search you. They can come onto your property whenever they feel appropriate. Though you have a reasonable expectation of privacy under the Fourth Amendment and are protected against unlawful searches and seizures. There is an exception in this case since Texas allows game wardens to search for illegal game. And because they're allowed to do this, the search is lawful for the limited purpose of finding illegal game. Therefore the "plain-view" exception also applies.


----------



## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

> Game Wardens have the most power out of any law enforcement. They do not need probable cause to search you. They can come onto your property whenever they feel appropriate. Though you have a reasonable expectation of privacy under the Fourth Amendment and are protected against unlawful searches and seizures. There is an exception in this case since Texas allows game wardens to search for illegal game. And because they're allowed to do this, the search is lawful for the limited purpose of finding illegal game. Therefore the "plain-view" exception also applies.


You should read the article that is in the link on page 2 I think. But to recap:

Thereâ€™s more than a little mystery and misinformation about Texas game wardens and the legal powers they have. Can they detain you? Can they search you? Your truck? How about your hunting lodge?

Listen to stories in the field or around a camp fire, and you might think they can do anything they want.

The truth is that almost all of the time game wardens have no magical powers to detain, search and question hunters or anybody else.
They have no more right than any other law enforcement officer to stop you on a public road and search your truck or the people in it. They should, the law says, have probable cause to believe that a violation of the law has taken place before they execute a stop, and they should request, and obtain, your permission to search your truck. Otherwise, they need a search warrant.

They do not, as Iâ€™ve heard around a hundred campfires, have a special legal dispensation to enter, uninvited, your home or your camp house on a lease. They have no special right to search you or to go through your freezer to see how many doves you might have stocked away.

To stop a vehicle on a public roadway, a warden is supposed to have some reasonable belief â€" â€œprobable causeâ€ â€" that a game law violation has occurred and that someone in the vehicle was responsible.

â€œIt is up to the game warden in the field to evaluate whether he has probable cause to make an arrest or a search in each situation that comes to his attention,â€ said Boyd Kennedy, a staff attorney for TPWD.

â€œThe courts have the ultimate say. That is how most of this (search and seizure) law develops. Someone challenges a search and the courts make decisions on a case-by-case basis. I also want to emphasize that each case turns on its facts, and one small detail can change the outcome.â€

Wardens are allowed to enter public and private property to enforce game laws, Kennedy said, any place where animals under state jurisdiction are known to exist. In Texas, that would be pretty much any property. And they can, while on that property, ask to inspect any receptacles â€" game bags, ice chests, etc. â€" where game is known to be stored.

But the house or camp house on that property is another situation altogether, Kennedy said. â€œThe Texas Court of Criminal Appeals has interpreted the 4th amendment to mean that the provision of the Parks and Wildlife Code allowing entry on private property does not apply to residences,â€ he said. â€œSo I donâ€™t think there is any 4th amendment problem with game wardens going onto private property outside of residences.â€

TH


----------



## AvianQuest (Feb 7, 2006)

Anyone hear anything from speckle-catcher?


----------



## reba3825 (Feb 28, 2013)

Trouthunter said:


> You should read the article that is in the link on page 2 I think. But to recap:
> 
> Thereâ€™s more than a little mystery and misinformation about Texas game wardens and the legal powers they have. Can they detain you? Can they search you? Your truck? How about your hunting lodge?
> 
> ...


You are wrong


----------



## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

So Reba are you saying that you know more about the powers of a Game Warden than a staff attorney for TP&W?

Just for you, and pay attention now so you don't miss anything, here is the article in its entirety.

*Leggett: Game wardensâ€™ powers shrouded in mystery*

5:21 p.m. Wednesday, Oct. 31, 2012

Thereâ€™s more than a little mystery and misinformation about Texas game wardens and the legal powers they have. Can they detain you? Can they search you? Your truck? How about your hunting lodge?

Listen to stories in the field or around a camp fire, and you might think they can do anything they want.

The truth is that almost all of the time game wardens have no magical powers to detain, search and question hunters or anybody else.

They have no more right than any other law enforcement officer to stop you on a public road and search your truck or the people in it. They should, the law says, have probable cause to believe that a violation of the law has taken place before they execute a stop, and they should request, and obtain, your permission to search your truck. Otherwise, they need a search warrant.

They do not, as Iâ€™ve heard around a hundred campfires, have a special legal dispensation to enter, uninvited, your home or your camp house on a lease. They have no special right to search you or to go through your freezer to see how many doves you might have stocked away.

Going into the opening weekend of the 2012-13 Texas deer season, I was already working on a column about these issues when I read that Texas game wardens had been involved at the beginning of a chase and capture situation that turned deadly near La Joya in Hidalgo County in the Lower Rio Grande Valley.

According to reports of the incident, wardens attempted to stop a pickup thought to be carrying drugs. When the driver refused to stop, a Department of Public Safety officer, firing from a helicopter, shot at the truck in an attempt to disable it.
Two men in the pickup were killed and a third was wounded by the fire. No drugs were found in the vehicle, which was carrying illegal immigrants from Guatemala.

â€œThe incident â€¦ in South Texas remains under investigation, so I am not at liberty to share much information at this time,â€ said Carter Smith, Texas Parks and Wildlifeâ€™s executive director. â€œI can tell you that our officers were involved in routine patrol activities. The incident did occur on a public roadway. By all accounts, our officers handled the situation exactly as they were trained to do.â€

Texas wardens have been deployed along the Texas/Mexico border to help deal with reported increases in drug activity, as well as illegal entry issues throughout South Texas.

Smith said those officers are trained in all aspects of law enforcement and regularly respond to violations other than game law situations. He did not say why the wardens attempted to stop the pickup.

To stop a vehicle on a public roadway, a warden is supposed to have some reasonable belief â€" â€œprobable causeâ€ â€" that a game law violation has occurred and that someone in the vehicle was responsible.

â€œIt is up to the game warden in the field to evaluate whether he has probable cause to make an arrest or a search in each situation that comes to his attention,â€ said Boyd Kennedy, a staff attorney for TPWD.

â€œThe courts have the ultimate say. That is how most of this (search and seizure) law develops. Someone challenges a search and the courts make decisions on a case-by-case basis. I also want to emphasize that each case turns on its facts, and one small detail can change the outcome.â€

Wardens are allowed to enter public and private property to enforce game laws, Kennedy said, any place where animals under state jurisdiction are known to exist. In Texas, that would be pretty much any property. And they can, while on that property, ask to inspect any receptacles â€" game bags, ice chests, etc. â€" where game is known to be stored.

But the house or camp house on that property is another situation altogether, Kennedy said. â€œThe Texas Court of Criminal Appeals has interpreted the 4th amendment to mean that the provision of the Parks and Wildlife Code allowing entry on private property does not apply to residences,â€ he said.

â€œSo I donâ€™t think there is any 4th amendment problem with game wardens going onto private property outside of residences.â€

I hope you got all of that.

TH


----------



## RedXCross (Aug 7, 2005)

That's OK , I'll take the zero and sleep in the jungle with Rosy!



AvianQuest said:


> No website, but they are lined up ready to go.


----------



## MathGeek (Feb 3, 2016)

cadjockey said:


> Tell the GW you feel heartfelt sorrow for the neighbor's shack and hope the perpetrators will be apprehended but he'll need a warrant and a road trip if he wishes to complete his investigation.


I agree with this. There is no burden for a citizen to incur time and expense to help a GW "complete his investigation." The GW needs to get a warrant and pick up the rifle. The citizen should fully cooperate if he does.


----------



## bg (May 21, 2004)

fy0834 said:


> Just another thought... Not a game violation... call the sheriff's department.


GW are kind of like DPS, they have statewide jurisdiction and can work any crime, not just game crimes. We had a trespasser on our place a few years ago that stole some stuff. I had a photo of him walking out with the stuff in his kid's hand and a rifle on his shoulder, the Sheriff was entirely disinterested so I called the GW. He ran the case professionally, found out the guy was a felon and got a felony warrant for "Felon in Possession of a Firearm" issued that was served by the local Sheriff who blew the case off to begin with.

At any rate, this crime is actually a PW code crime, see Sec 62.0121 here - http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/PW/htm/PW.62.htm. It's also only a Class C misdemeanor (same as a traffic violation) so it would be best if the responsible party just owned up and paid the fine.


----------



## MathGeek (Feb 3, 2016)

bg said:


> GW are kind of like DPS, they have statewide jurisdiction and can work any crime, not just game crimes. We had a trespasser on our place a few years ago that stole some stuff. I had a photo of him walking out with the stuff in his kid's hand and a rifle on his shoulder, the Sheriff was entirely disinterested so I called the GW. He ran the case professionally, found out the guy was a felon and got a felony warrant for "Felon in Possession of a Firearm" issued that was served by the local Sheriff who blew the case off to begin with.
> 
> At any rate, this crime is actually a PW code crime, see Sec 62.0121 here - http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/PW/htm/PW.62.htm. It's also only a Class C misdemeanor (same as a traffic violation) so it would be best if the responsible party just owned up and paid the fine.


It seems like a good idea until one considers the likelihood that at some point in the future anyone convicted of a firearms related crime may be prevented from owning a firearm.

The liberals are encroaching gradually on the RKBA by increasing the cost and difficulty of acquiring firearms and ammunition and by seeking to expand the list of "prohibited" owners. Expanding the list of misdemeanors and medical conditions that make owners prohibited is high on their list.

Sending the property owner a anonymous payment for damages and an apology might be the better plan.


----------



## vette74 (Oct 11, 2009)

Y'all must have never seen Northwoods Law. Same story every case they catch someone. Calls them up and requests them to come out there, guy shows up or is already out there, GW has a little bit of evidence and badgers the **** out of them until they confess. Then write a ticket. If they don't confess give a verbal or written warning and move on. This is all he is trying to do.

A lot of them also like to tell people what to do to make their job easier as such as the above you drive 4 hours not me. We were dove hunting and limited out with 30 min to go for shooting hours we pull up to the truck and GW is there checked us. There were still guys shooting and asked us to get them and bring them back. We politely told them if you want us to do your job for you then you need to give us your paycheck. Unamused he waited for our friends to come out of the woods.


----------



## Jock Ewing (Mar 26, 2006)

rut-ro said:


> Really this makes no sense. Why would you make him get a warrant for anything. He can get a warrant to a residence to anyone that was there. In the warrant he will ask to seize ALL guns to do ballistics testing. You will not get them back until after the investigation. if you want to be without your guns for a long time, go ahead and make him get a warrant, its pretty easy to articulate , and remember the pen is mightier than the sword.


I am an attorney. He can get a warrant if he has probable cause and a judge agrees he does.

Personally if it was me, I would not cooperate. If you are worried about them taking all your guns, store them elsewhere. You have the right to remain silent and the right not to incriminate yourself. Such rights are guaranteed by our constitution.


----------



## wal1809 (May 27, 2005)

Jock Ewing said:


> I am an attorney. He can get a warrant if he has probable cause and a judge agrees he does.
> 
> Personally if it was me, I would not cooperate. If you are worried about them taking all your guns, store them elsewhere. You have the right to remain silent and the right not to incriminate yourself. Such rights are guaranteed by our constitution.


Men fought and died in agony to achieve these rights. I consider it a duty to use these rights.


----------



## JMAKO (Jun 20, 2013)

Couple things, I would move the blind.

The GW said he just wanted to complete his investigation which suggests he not going for the throat here, just wants to move on probably to something more important. I would visit face to face with the land owner after I moved the blind, and if successful Land owner could then call the GW and tell him everything is ok- case closed.

I know, too easy. most solutions are!


----------



## AvianQuest (Feb 7, 2006)

Jock Ewing said:


> I am an attorney. He can get a warrant if he has probable cause and a judge agrees he does.
> 
> Personally if it was me, I would not cooperate. If you are worried about them taking all your guns, store them elsewhere. You have the right to remain silent and the right not to incriminate yourself. Such rights are guaranteed by our constitution.


The 5th Amendment gives a person the right to remain silent to prevent _self_-incrimination but it doesn't give you the right to remain silent to prevent another person's incrimination.

I would also be concerned about being hit with Obstruction of Justice by hiding the evidence, which would be the guns.


----------



## AvianQuest (Feb 7, 2006)

JMAKO said:


> Couple things, I would move the blind.
> 
> The GW said he just wanted to complete his investigation which suggests he not going for the throat here, just wants to move on probably to something more important. I would visit face to face with the land owner after I moved the blind, and if successful Land owner could then call the GW and tell him everything is ok- case closed.
> 
> I know, too easy. most solutions are!


Excellent.


----------



## sotol buster (Oct 7, 2007)

Show up with a bow and a couple of broadheads.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk


----------

