# Biggert-Watters bit me hard!



## Runway (Feb 6, 2005)

Just got the new flood insurance bill for a weekender in Sargent. It went from $600.00 (no claims in 10 years) to $5200.00! I'm sure I'll hear from all of the "I don't want to subsidize your insurance crowd" but folks beware. This is what the government is doing and it won't stop here.


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## Profish00 (May 21, 2004)

Humm mine went down 200 bucks.


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## speckledred (Jun 1, 2004)

Okay, I'm game. The reasoning behind the increase is due to property values, improvements, improvements around your place or what? You have asked additional insurance brokers to quote the property? You are basing the government increases on?


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## bluefin (Aug 16, 2005)

$600 to $5200??? Did your house sink?
Have you called to make sure someone didn't make a mistake somewhere?


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

That bill has been put on hold regarding increases in prices. Better check and see what's up. You have downstairs enclosures, base flood elevations,When was it built, ?


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## Runway (Feb 6, 2005)

2 different companies have told me the same thing. The property has been rezoned from "C" to "A-12" and since it is not my primary residence, I am getting the full brunt of the act. Looks like I have some more research to do if the bill has been put on hold.


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## stdreb27 (Aug 15, 2011)

Geez. Now I'm scared about my windstorm tax...


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## SeaY'all (Jul 14, 2011)

I was going to buy some commercial property down there but, they are changing the flood plain maps again. The property in question is going from an a-12 to a v. Its happening everywhere not just Sargent.


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## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

If this is too personal, don't answer. What percentage of value does $5200 work out to be? Mine went up 16% and I paid it. It's still a bargain, but it's also our homestead and never had a claim in 18 years. Our insurance system is beyond screwed up.


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## texasair (May 22, 2004)

If you were to put the home up for sale today what would the your value be for the home?, Lot?


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## alant (Dec 7, 2006)

The Bigger-Waters Act was designed to remove subsidies from flood insurance and will have the impact of raising the cost of flood insurance to possibly over $20k. It's compounded by a change in zoning in many areas. Congress is voting on a delay now, but it's only a delay. I know someone who's home (not camp) may have rates that rise from $1200/hr to $22k. This is on a home valued somewhere around $200k. The problem with such a drastic increase is the house is now worthless. No one would ever buy these homes due to the flood insurance, so the homeowners will turn the keys back to the bank and mortgage insurance will pay the banks the balance. This will drive up mortgage insurance costs, and guess who pays for that? So it's a shift if the costs from one group to another.


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## fishingcacher (Mar 29, 2008)

I remember when flood insurance was $25/yr.


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## Runway (Feb 6, 2005)

Mont said:


> If this is too personal, don't answer. What percentage of value does $5200 work out to be? Mine went up 16% and I paid it. It's still a bargain, but it's also our homestead and never had a claim in 18 years. Our insurance system is beyond screwed up.


The new premium is about 3% of the appraised value. I just got off of the phone and can knock the premium down to about $3,900 by going to a 5% deductible ( that will be a no-brainer) The first quote had a $1K deductible. Our homestead is in Houston, so we are out of luck on that count. I knew the increase was coming, and we budgeted for a 25% increase based on news reports! but this amount of increase caught me off guard. It may be time to look at other ways to spend our weekends.


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## TranTheMan (Aug 17, 2009)

>what the government is doing and it won't stop here.
I do not understand why government has anything to do with this? 

It is the insurance company (who is not a non-profit or charity, btw) that raised the cost based on certain risk criteria. It is no different than the case where a 16 years boy driver would have to pay more for car insurance than a 55 years old female driver. They doubled my home insurance last year even though I had not had a claim for over 20 years. Statistically, I would venture a guess that they thought that I am over due for a claim and wanted to price me out. I did shop around and found a lower price policy.


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## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

At the point you get to 10% of value for 1 year of insurance, then the insurance becomes more expensive than the house note. I put my very first house on a 7 year note and got room mates. The value of the house becomes less important than cash flow. Even owning a house outright and paying 10% per year for insurance is a bad investment.


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## capt. david (Dec 29, 2004)

If it is not your primary residence you are going to see increases. Charlie act isn't put on hold yet, still in the process.


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## Big Willy (Jun 20, 2007)

CHARLIE said:


> That bill has been put on hold regarding increases in prices. Better check and see what's up. You have downstairs enclosures, base flood elevations,When was it built, ?


It may have been put on hold but that hasn't stopped the rates from already increasing.

I am in the process of selling a home and have a buyer in option period right now but they may not be able to close because their initial quote for insurance was it could be as high as $5500 a year for a $127K home that did not flood with Ike... I took a hit on my property value primarily because of flood insurance rates.

I paid cash for the house 7 years ago and have never had a mortgage on it so I never carried flood insurance or windstorm. Couldn't justify the expense and always had the money saved to fix anything other than a total loss.


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## kenny (May 21, 2004)

Like many things that the federal government does, it never sees beyond the immediate problem, which was insufficient funds to pay claims. Their solution; revise the flood maps and increase the rates 25% a year to reach the new rate.
Everything is not a zero sum gain, as we are now seeing. Property values will drop dramatically, building will slow or stop, coastal businesses will go out-of-business, unemployment will increase, cities like Galveston will go broke, and so forth.
It kind of reminds me of what happened when the Savings & Loans crisis was caused by a change in federal regulations.


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## capt. david (Dec 29, 2004)

Problem with FEMA is giving money too folks with no flood insurance. If the govt is going to step in and offer help to those not properly insured, make it a loan! Sucks that those of us with insurance get screwed again!


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## smokinguntoo (Mar 28, 2012)

capt. david said:


> Problem with FEMA is giving money too folks with no flood insurance. If the govt is going to step in and offer help to those not properly insured, make it a loan! Sucks that those of us with insurance get screwed again!


^^^This^^^ And it happened A LOT after Ike!!! Multiply that by every other disaster location.

Inside the levee in Matagorda had never been a flood zone (not sure of the flood rating), but insurance was low cost. Not anymore. I just sold my undeveloped property a large loss. Residents there are very concerned.

SG2


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## txjustin (Jun 3, 2009)

smokinguntoo said:


> ^^^This^^^ And it happened A LOT after Ike!!! Multiply that by every other disaster location.
> 
> Inside the levee in Matagorda had never been a flood zone (not sure of the flood rating), but insurance was low cost. Not anymore. I just sold my undeveloped property a large loss. Residents there are very concerned.
> 
> SG2


Tell me more about Gorda. We were looking at lots in town to be able to take advantage of low insurance rates.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

capt. david said:


> Problem with FEMA is giving money too folks with no flood insurance. If the govt is going to step in and offer help to those not properly insured, make it a loan! Sucks that those of us with insurance get screwed again!


X2 FEMA pays more money out to non insurance payers than to folks who pay the premiums. Only way to stop that IMHO is to get it back from the Govt and back in private hands and that would not happen. FEMA probably still paying rent for folks who left towns and went elsewhere after say katrina, Rita, Ike, well any of them. its a sad situation.

Regarding re zoning that has been coming for a while and it needed to be changed . Lots of folks skated with low premiums with areas not rated properly. Now that has changed. Well it is changing and dont think it has really been put in effect as yet.I know it hasent changed at Tiki yet. I really dont think it has been finalized yet so folks who are getting charged for a new zone mite want to check that out.


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## mstrelectricman (Jul 10, 2009)

My wife and I both love the coast but would never buy property there. We have a very nice 5th wheel and a small home in Needville. House and camper are ours and I don't buy insurance for either! When we want to hang at the coast we go to the multiple different RV parks located there. When we are tired of the sun/salt/sand we hook up and leave.
Did I mention my dislike for insurance companies?


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## surf_ox (Jul 8, 2008)

Mont said:


> Even owning a house outright and paying 10% per year for insurance is a bad investment.


Just save the money and cross your fingers for 10 years.


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## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

surf_ox said:


> Just save the money and cross your fingers for 10 years.


If my insurance gets anywhere near that, I will. Right now, it's at 2%, which is reasonable. Before I switched last year, I seriously considered doing just that. At 10% per year, right about the 3rd year, you get past the break even point. Unless I come home and find a crater where my house was, I won't file a claim anyways. My no claim history is part of what got me a reasonable rate.

Charlie, any idea of what insurance will cost on Tiki when this all shakes out?


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## Bozo (Jun 16, 2004)

I own outright in a V1 area and I'm 2' below the new elevation. If the full price hits, I'm immediately self insured. I can't see paying over 5% for insurance when the likelihood of flood ever paying 100% of the home value and for contents is pretty scarce. Even if you did have flood and the water got to the 1st level of my home, they would still try to say some or most damage was caused by wind.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Mont

Well believe it or not elevation requirements at Tiki are going to be lowered in some parts of the island. Another thing is there is a program that FEMA has called CRS (yes thats what they call it lol). its community rating system where communities such as Tiki go above and beyond the FEMA requirements in regards to construction and other issues and get insurance reductions. I think only Tiki and Kemah are the only two cities in Galveston county that do that. That may have changed. We now get a 10% reduction (every home) in insurance and we are working on getting it up to 15 %. I dont have flood insurance because it pays nothing. Well only a little on downstairs stuff. I understand someday there may be a 20 food surge and get me and that would be the only time flood insurance would be worth it. Until then I am rolling the dice. Regarding rates at Tiki remember we are rated a V20 zone like on the beach. (never understand that) but was hoping the new zoning would change that but nope aint gonna happen. Seems to me last time I had flood insurance with say $5000 deductable it was about$2800 a year. I dont look for much change other than folks who are not homesteaded. They are gonna take a real hit. Like 25 % increase per year till it gets to 100 %. We will see.

Bozo

If your elevations was correct at one time they cannot penalize you for being lower after they raised the requirements. They cannot go back and penalize you or anyone who was correct at one time. I hear they are trying to change this and make it legal to make it retroactive but dont think it has been done yet. What happens is insurance companies just look at your elevation and compare it to the new elevations reuirements and penalize you. Its their fault for not knowing how to administer a program. You mite check and see where you stand.


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## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

thanks, Charlie. I have a good friend retiring to the coast looking at homes and one of them was on Tiki. If I was going to live on the water, it would be there and I told him that.


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## MarkU (Jun 3, 2013)

Just had a chat with my agent. I renew in the end of July. Looks like we're getting the 25% increase, plus the standard increase, plus the increase for not being my permanent residence. Where as before, I had permanent residence coverage. Because my dad lives there full time. Since he's not on my note, they look at him now as a renter. Too bad he doesn't pay rent, or any bill for that matter...


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## Hullahopper (May 24, 2004)

Mont said:


> If this is too personal, don't answer. What percentage of value does $5200 work out to be? Mine went up 16% and I paid it. It's still a bargain, but it's also our homestead and never had a claim in 18 years. Our insurance system is beyond screwed up.


Up 16% on mine as well and our canal house is only 3 years old built to current code.


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## Castaway2 (Aug 8, 2013)

:headknockmy house went from 1300 to 2600 for flood! but the mortgage note went down go figure that


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## Super Dave (May 26, 2004)

Ya'll have been successful in scaring the bejabbers out of me so I just had a chat with my agent. Probably no increase coming for me but did hear the following:

bill pending to remove the grandfather clauses in flood insurance.
bill shelved temporarily in Senate pending further study.
big increases pertain to houses built prior to '75, many of which have downstairs living areas.

(this is a big one)......remapping ongoing on flood zones which could have major impacts for some. A proposed map for my address showed no change in the map. I'm in a "A" zone.

Keep your fingers crossed. Like the rest of you, if I had a major increase in cost I would simply self insure and start making blood sacrifices. (mosquitoes that is)


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## bcoastal (Aug 8, 2012)

I live in Nassau Bay and don't know exactly what to expect... but it will be bad. I'm probably in one of the worst situations other than the fact it is my primary house. My house is in an "A" zone and 2 feet below BFE. We purchased the house last year knowing insurance would be expensive... 1400 for 150k but never dreamed going to the extremes we have been hearing. If it does go up to the 8k that some have claimed for our property then we will have to foreclose. I am not alone. There are tens of thousands in our situation. If Biggert Waters continues and FEMA keeps these rates then it will mean the end to coastal living.

I know there should be nobody paying for my house if it floods. But I expect to pay a reasonable rate or be able to opt out of flood insurance from the bank (who requires flood insurance by the government). 

This Biggert-Waters so unclear... We dont even know how much our rates will increase until 45 days before renewing our polocy.... Talk about stickin to the new home buyer...


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## Kenner21 (Aug 25, 2005)

Lots of Seabrook is about to go waaaay up with the rezoning, I'm lucky we are missing the worst of it. I think my wife mentioned ours is going up from 440.00 a year to aprox 1000.00


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## Profish00 (May 21, 2004)

Depending on location of residence it may be worth it to change your coastal home to homestead. If that is even possible. I'm full time coastal/homestead now so that may have helped mine go down. I know my inland home was not even required to have flood ins.


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## BATWING (May 9, 2008)

This is awful! Part of the reason I gave up my weekend place was due to increases for insurance and taxes. No homestead = kick in the gut

Good luck!


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## CAPSIZED (Aug 10, 2004)

My mom and dad just sold their home on Galveston's west end. They were paying $450 per year for flood. The guy that bought it was quoted $5K. There will be a lot of homes for sale with no buyers if this keeps up.


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## grouper150 (Oct 24, 2006)

Im in the mortgage business and began losing deals to this flood act last November....from a conspiracy theory point of view - it may be a ploy to overtake all waterfront properties for pennies on the dollar - relegate ownership to the preferred few - and then relegislate and score huge profits.......anyone remember the 80's and the RTC auctions?


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## capt. david (Dec 29, 2004)

If you don't have a mortgage, flood insurance not required. Lots of people say they self insure, but when something tragic happens lots of them look for a bailout. Fema offers money and those that say I self insure accept. I thought you could assume a flood policy that was in place when you purchased a home. The act isn't passed yet. sounds like some folks are getting shafted.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

bcoastal

You need to check when your house was built and what the elevation requirements was at that time. If they FEMA raised the required elevations after your home was built and it was to code then they cannot make it retroactive and penalize you. Insurance companies are bad about doing this. 
Dont know if they dont know how to administer the program or are out just to make money.


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## Runway (Feb 6, 2005)

The Biggert-Watters act was signed into law. There have been several bills presented to deal with the unintended consequences of this legislation (imagine that!!) I can deal with a graduated increase, but the best I can get right now is a 500% increase. That is not an easy pill to swallow. You can bet Mr. Poe will hear from me.
Oh and by the way, the premium is due in full, no quarterly payments.


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## Runway (Feb 6, 2005)

PS: anybody want a good deal for 2 acres on Caney Creek? :fish:


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## steve holchak (May 18, 2012)

Runway said:


> PS: anybody want a good deal for 2 acres on Caney Creek? :fish:


Are you in Caney Creek Estates?


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## fishinfool (Jun 30, 2004)

We purchased a lot in richmond just north of the brazos river about 3 years ago. We were in zone x. They have revised all maps and now are in zone A with a be of 88ft. Ft bend county is also changing their rules and we have to be 18 in above be instead of 12. The new maps don't go into effect until april.....

My biggest complaint is all the levies they are building around the county are really screwing up the flooding calculations for those not behind a levie. Best of luck to everyone on this.


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## Runway (Feb 6, 2005)

steve holchak said:


> Are you in Caney Creek Estates?


Yes sir. Just got down here. Ate a burger at the Gecko, came over here and almost got tripped up by deep a... clover.


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## bcoastal (Aug 8, 2012)

CHARLIE said:


> bcoastal
> 
> You need to check when your house was built and what the elevation requirements was at that time. If they FEMA raised the required elevations after your home was built and it was to code then they cannot make it retroactive and penalize you. Insurance companies are bad about doing this.
> Dont know if they dont know how to administer the program or are out just to make money.


I'm PreFIRM. My house was built in 1968 before any FEMA made flood insurance rate maps. This is also our primary residence. I'm not 100% how we are going to be affected and have heard many different things. Right now we are paying around 1400 on 150k.


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## Gottagofishin (Dec 17, 2005)

Just checked. Mine went up $200/year on my canal home in Jamaica Beach. That was a lot less than I expected. 

I went from an A14 to A17 zone, but I need to check into because it says my elevation is 11' and my elevation certificate says 15'.

Might get a little knocked off.


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## steve holchak (May 18, 2012)

Runway said:


> Yes sir. Just got down here. Ate a burger at the Gecko, came over here and almost got tripped up by deep a... clover.


We mowed last weekend. We are on Seagull between the 2 boatramps. The clover is bad as usual this time of year (and so is the fog!) Ours is paid off so we are taking a chance and not paying the price for flood ins. We've had 1foot of water downstairs twice now from Claudette and Rita. Getting good at cleaning up after floods!


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## warlock (Mar 27, 2006)

The house in question is a prefirm now v zone listed as a secondary dwelling. I wish I had time to discuss this but dont as I am running for Congress and this is the number one issue for the district. I helped author the only legislation to fix this filed by any member of the Texas Congressional Delegation.

There has been no delay passed (Only Map Delay) as of yet and no fix even close.

No one is even considering a repreive for secondary or rental and commercial properties.

With no change and there is little support to do much our coastal communities look like Detroit in about 10 years....

Dave Norman
http://davenormanforcongress.com/issues/item/112-flood-reform


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Dave

The real fix would be get it out of government hands and back to private sector. Government pays money from FEMA funds to folks who have never paid a dime in flood insurance. Dont think this would happen in the private sector. Free rent, board, travel for folks who do not even participate in the flood program. Thats where most of the money goes.


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## Outearly (Nov 17, 2009)

CHARLIE said:


> Dave
> 
> The real fix would be get it out of government hands and back to private sector. Government pays money from FEMA funds to folks who have never paid a dime in flood insurance. Dont think this would happen in the private sector. Free rent, board, travel for folks who do not even participate in the flood program. Thats where most of the money goes.


The government is in because the private sector insurance market won't get involved at any affordable price. It's a subsidy. I'm not really against it more than any other subsidy, but it is what it is.


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## victoryld (Dec 15, 2006)

Two recent articles about this subject. Why Taxpayers Will Bail Out the Rich When the Next Storm Hits 
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/investi...ill-bail-out-rich-when-next-storm-hits-n25901

Meet the Flood Insurance 'Robin Hood' Who Saves Condo Owners Millions 
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/investi...n-hood-who-saves-condo-owners-millions-n26711


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## talkshow (Aug 11, 2006)

We were in the process of buying a house in Sargent. We didn't realize what was going on with the flood insurance buy we had to back out because of the price of the flood insurance. Over 3k a year and expected to double again next year. We couldn't take that chance and I'm still disgusted by the while ordeal.


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## Gottagofishin (Dec 17, 2005)

I'm just curious as to why Sergeant is being hit so hard. I polled 4 people I know in Jamaica Beach. They are like me. Slight increase, but not a big deal.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Gottagofishin

What I have seen regarding different areas of the coast is this. FEMA has been involved with the areas more populated and has left the other areas alone. Now they are finally getting around to some of the areas that they have been lax in enforcing rules and regulations. Plus they are broke and beginning to try and find more money.. Jus sayin.


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## Gottagofishin (Dec 17, 2005)

Charlie,

That makes some sense, but I'm still under $1000 for maximum available coverage in JB. I'm not that familiar with Sergeant. Is there something about it that makes it more exposed? I assume we are talking bayside and not beach side.


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## Shaky (May 21, 2004)

I would have to say that Sergeant is a lot more exposed to the open gulf than other areas that are or might be protected by a major bay system. Lots of new (within the last 10years or so) construction (high dollar type homes) on a narrow stretch of beach front open gulf east of Matagorda bay. 

Just my .02, but if there were any place I would want to avoid during a major storm event, it would be sargent. And I am pretty hard headed when it comes to storm warnings.


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## Pasadena1944 (Mar 20, 2010)

bcoastal said:


> I live in Nassau Bay and don't know exactly what to expect... but it will be bad. I'm probably in one of the worst situations other than the fact it is my primary house. My house is in an "A" zone and 2 feet below BFE. We purchased the house last year knowing insurance would be expensive... 1400 for 150k but never dreamed going to the extremes we have been hearing. If it does go up to the 8k that some have claimed for our property then we will have to foreclose. I am not alone. There are tens of thousands in our situation. If Biggert Waters continues and *FEMA keeps these rates then it will mean the end to coastal living*.
> 
> I know there should be nobody paying for my house if it floods. But I expect to pay a reasonable rate or be able to opt out of flood insurance from the bank (who requires flood insurance by the government).
> 
> This Biggert-Waters so unclear... We dont even know how much our rates will increase until 45 days before renewing our polocy.... Talk about stickin to the new home buyer...


No it wont, it will just run the average joe smoe away then the rich will come in and buy all of the coastal homes for pennies on the dollar and they can afford to say to hell with the high insurance, we are rich and don't need your over priced insurance...


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Gottagofishin

How old is your house is it pre FIRM built before 1975 ? If so your rates will be cheaper than newer houses. That is one part of the problem but not to offend anyone a prefirm house the rates are cheap and they pay off plenty flood insurnace wise. Newer homes insurance is much more expensive and pay almost nothing in flood insurance. Besides that newer homes are built to much more strict codes.


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## Runway (Feb 6, 2005)

Gottagofishin said:


> I'm just curious as to why Sergeant is being hit so hard. I polled 4 people I know in Jamaica Beach. They are like me. Slight increase, but not a big deal.


My first guess as to why your increases have been modest would be that you have better representation than a small, unincorporated area like Sargent. 
While there is no doubt that there has been higher end development on the beachfront, the majority of that has been structures built high in the air with the latest in windstorm resistant construction means and methods being used. There have been a few built by less than qualified contractors that may not survive even a tropical depression. The vast majority of properties in Sargent are built on grade and have not experienced water in the structures in years. My place survived a direct hit by Carla - there was some damage, but it is still there today and my biggest threats are from the armadillos digging under the place and squirrels that like to nest in the eaves and chew on wires! 
For the most part, Sargent is a community of modest homes owned and lived in (or used by weekenders like myself) by solid blue collar folks (and white collar to a degree) who are certainly not in the class of millionaires mentioned in the NBC report mentioned earlier in this thread. 
I will do what I can to preserve our property there, but there is a limit to how time and effort I can devote to this cause. The fight moves on this week by more education, a few discussions with those more educated than I on this subject, and hard look at where my priorities will be moving forward.


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## smokinguntoo (Mar 28, 2012)

Where the money goes/went: Wife's cousin on Boliver said he believes and was told they subsidized the rebuilding of 8,000 homes that were uninsured. While that may be somewhat overstated, I know it was a bunch. The precedent of giving was established well before Ike, and IMHO a mistake. Not sure about other areas, but you can bet that Katrina was a bottomless pit.

I don't mean to be hard-hearted, but if you lost your place in one of the storms and did not have any of the heavily subsidized cheap insurance, too bad. Adios, move on. Section 8 housing just across the street from my formerly nice neighborhood is waiting on you.

Comment not meant to highjack this thread: It appears there are other provisions as well. I am now forbidden in Matagorda Township from bringing in fill dirt to raise the back of my property like my neighbor did. I waited too long. Good luck to the buyer who got it for 1/2 of what I paid for it.

SG2


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## Gottagofishin (Dec 17, 2005)

CHARLIE said:


> Gottagofishin
> 
> How old is your house is it pre FIRM built before 1975 ? If so your rates will be cheaper than newer houses. That is one part of the problem but not to offend anyone a prefirm house the rates are cheap and they pay off plenty flood insurnace wise. Newer homes insurance is much more expensive and pay almost nothing in flood insurance. Besides that newer homes are built to much more strict codes.


I'm not pre FIRM. My house is on the main canal and was built in 89. I'm Zone A17 and my elevation certificate says I'm at 15'9".

It did go up, but I think it's because I went from a14 to a17. On a % basis about 25%, but it is still what I consider reasonable?

Of course it doesn't cover anything unless your house gets swept off its pilings. I'd drop it completely if it went to 5 or 6k per year though.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Gottagofishin

What was the elevation requirements at A14 and did it change going to A17 ? Another question is it homesteaded ? Word I have gotten and apparently non homesteads (2nd homes) are increasing 25% per year.


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## Gottagofishin (Dec 17, 2005)

It's not currently homesteaded, but that could change if needed. I thought the number after the A was the BFE so I assumed the elevation requirement went from went from 14 to 17.


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## Big Willy (Jun 20, 2007)

Big Willy said:


> I am in the process of selling a home and have a buyer in option period right now but they may not be able to close because their initial quote for insurance was it could be as high as $5500 a year for a $127K home that did not flood with Ike... I took a hit on my property value primarily because of flood insurance rates.
> 
> I paid cash for the house 7 years ago and have never had a mortgage on it so I never carried flood insurance or windstorm. Couldn't justify the expense and always had the money saved to fix anything other than a total loss.


Well, the buyer backed out because of the flood insurance rates on the house... hwell: I knew it was going to be expensive which is why I ended up making some concessions to keep them involved in the buying process. But, I cannot justify reducing my house by $20-30k just so someone else can afford the flood insurance.

They said their flood insurance rate for a $127k home was over $3000 per year. If you add up all their insurance costs, the total came to $6000 per year. Oh well, time to relist and pray for the best.


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## smokinguntoo (Mar 28, 2012)

FEMA Flood Designations

https://msc.fema.gov/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/info?storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&content=floodZones&title=FEMA%20Flood%20Zone%20Designations

SG2


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## Big Willy (Jun 20, 2007)

Ok, so I found out my house was built in 1966. I found the original deed. How do I get it confirmed as pre-FIRM. Not that I care for subsidized insurance but I'd love to be able to sell my house.


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## Jamaica Cove (Apr 2, 2008)

CHARLIE said:


> Gottagofishin
> 
> How old is your house is it pre FIRM built before 1975 ? If so your rates will be cheaper than newer houses. That is one part of the problem but not to offend anyone a prefirm house the rates are cheap and they pay off plenty flood insurnace wise. Newer homes insurance is much more expensive and pay almost nothing in flood insurance. Besides that newer homes are built to much more strict codes.


 I don't know Charlie, but I'm Pre-Firm (1965), in Jamaica Beach, primary residence and my NFIP last year was $3700, so why am I penalized-it used to be $1000-1100 before Ike.


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## Jamaica Cove (Apr 2, 2008)

Big Willy said:


> Ok, so I found out my house was built in 1966. I found the original deed. How do I get it confirmed as pre-FIRM. Not that I care for subsidized insurance but I'd love to be able to sell my house.


 My limited understanding is FEMA under Biggert-Waters will not grandfather pre-firm when sold, so that may be why your rate for the Buyer was so high (but mine is dang high at $3700/year now and I been there since 99).


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## warlock (Mar 27, 2006)

You are pre-firm and thats how its being rated...has the house ever flooded? This is the Detroit in ten years thing I talk about no one is going to purchase a home unless they can pay cash and make it a rental with no flood insurance...

If it has never flooded and now in a zone A you can get an elevation cert and have it rated as such but probably at or below the base flood and still have the problem. New maps and ditching grandfathering in BW12 just make it worse...

Your 127K house is worth 75K at best with this Act (3K a year buys 50K of morgage money)...it will destroy our coastal communities...wish I could give you better news.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

gottagofishing

No the number does not designate the elevation requirements. You need to check on that and I strongly reccomend you homestead the place otherwise its gonna go out of sight (insurance premiums).


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## capt. david (Dec 29, 2004)

From what I heard if you having anything built on ground level other than a 10x30 storage room, your going to get it hard. Seems like the rate increases or all over the $$$ scale.


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## Big Willy (Jun 20, 2007)

warlock said:


> You are pre-firm and thats how its being rated...has the house ever flooded? This is the Detroit in ten years thing I talk about no one is going to purchase a home unless they can pay cash and make it a rental with no flood insurance...
> 
> If it has never flooded and now in a zone A you can get an elevation cert and have it rated as such but probably at or below the base flood and still have the problem. New maps and ditching grandfathering in BW12 just make it worse...
> 
> Your 127K house is worth 75K at best with this Act (3K a year buys 50K of morgage money)...it will destroy our coastal communities...wish I could give you better news.


It has not flooded as far as I know. It didn't flood during Ike for sure because I was the owner at that time. Probably did flood at sometime in the past but I don't know.

I purchased it as a foreclosure in 2006. I paid cash and haven't carried flood or windstorm on it. The appraisal district has our home as being built in 1982 which is why I think the buyer's insurance quote was for post-FIRM. I'm contacting my insurance to see if I can get a quote for pre-FIRM rates.

I really hope I can find a buyer. Homes are still selling that require flood insurance but it takes the right buyer. A home sold just last month on the street behind my house and the insurance was the same rate as mine. It took three contracts to finally get a buyer but it sold for $89 a sq ft. Not sure I'd want to rent the house out. With the pool and the hot tub it is just too much to keep up with for a renter.


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## warlock (Mar 27, 2006)

Homesteading does nothing for rating with BW12...absolutley nothing...the new law says you have to live their 9 months of the year to get Replacement cost...You now can have two homes both with flood insurance that are considered ACV only as you split time evenly through the year. One can be your homestead for tax purposes, without change, and remember I wrote legeslation and the only legeslation filed by any member of the Texas Congressional Delegation to fix this...I wish I had the time to correct the issues and bad info on this thread but I dont. I will check in if I can...dont wast time and effort on rabbit trails...


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## Bevojoe (Apr 25, 2012)

I just bought a house in JB this past weekend. as a new buyer, my rates aren't supposed to go up gradually. I get it all at once. my Flood insurance was only around $800. it's a little long in the tooth (built in '72) with flood zone AE. as for the bottom floor, having anything built on the bottom floor is fine. does not affect your rates. HOWEVER, very few things are covered (Washer/dryer, water heater, and maybe bathroom). there is no grandfathering, no exceptions, nada.... wife spoke with underwriter at FEMA. he laughed when we mentioned "grandfathering". just understand what's covered and not covered. so, when it comes to the rates, i think year built has something to do with it and the flood zone rating has a lot to do with it.


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## Gottagofishin (Dec 17, 2005)

Pre-firm is not less expensive. I looked at a pre-firm house down the street from mine a couple of years ago and the insurance at the time was 4x mine. Pre-firm just means you can get coverage on lower level living areas. But you pay for it.


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## warlock (Mar 27, 2006)

FYI (Washer/dryer, water heater, and maybe bathroom) none of it's covered...Elevated homes with no obstuctions are generally okay...new maps not in effect willl change that,and prefirm homes on slabs that real working people live in will suffer the most....Last post for a while...


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## pure texan (Feb 20, 2014)

I was told by 2 different Farmers insurance agents that Farmers wants out of the Texas insurance buisness that they no longer want to write Home policy's and the only reason they are still doing so is to be able to keep the auto insurance buisness. In Seabrook my homeowners went up to 9000.00 from 1600.00.Iam lucky I have paid my house off as to not get hit with that bill a second year I plan on self insureing my house from now on. I would never have said it but since other folks have mentioned it in this thread yes Seabrook will look like Detroit in 10 years I really believe. Iam waiting on all the foreclosers to start. What does a politician from inner Los Angelas have any right dictating what we pay for insurance in Texas. Iam reffering to Maxine Watters . Were is our politicians when we need them.


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## Big Willy (Jun 20, 2007)

Gottagofishin said:


> Pre-firm is not less expensive. I looked at a pre-firm house down the street from mine a couple of years ago and the insurance at the time was 4x mine. Pre-firm just means you can get coverage on lower level living areas. But you pay for it.


Oh, ok. Thought they had a base rate for pre-FIRM rate regardless of elevation. I'm sure things have changed though.

Obviously though I know nothing about flood insurance because I've never carried it. Just new it was crazy expensive when we bought the house. Trying to find anything that will help. Considering paying for the first two or three years of flood insurance just to get the house sold. Idk what else to do if we don't have a buyer in 3-4 months.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Warlock

Bathrooms at not allowed in V zones below base flood elevations. (downstairs). Flood insurance on post firm houses in V zones downstairs only pays for light switches and maybe freezer and the meat that may be in it.

Pre firm better rates are now null and void because of the B-W act which is now in effect. Hopefully with the new legislation to delay the act things will go back to pre B-W act. Who knows it is all up in the air rite now.


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## capt. david (Dec 29, 2004)

They covered my washer and dryer during Ike along with light switches and outlets. Not a fridge but a freezer is covered.


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## warlock (Mar 27, 2006)

Charlie I was pointing out the misinformation from a prior post...also the pre firm comments are also not accurate...all it means is the structure was built prior to the inception of the program and may have different rules. I have dealt with the NFIP program for almost 30 years, helped write manuals...taught classes on the subject, sold the product, and as prior discussed Authored fixes for BW-12...


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## Jamaica Cove (Apr 2, 2008)

It'd be great if someone that new the Biggert-Waters act put down a detailed info regarding the POS act. Likely it was "never read" until after passed just like the other darn train-wreck of an Act.

My house was built in 1965, is Pre-Firm and insured as that. My NFIP is $3700 last year. I sued for Ike, settled and received a decent settlement for my losses regarding the downstairs/ground-level area and was 'told' that all my downstairs is covered-everything in it-even my TV, fridge, freezer, rounds of ammo, rods/reels/tackle (same stuff I sued FEMA for with Ike). Now I understand if I sell, the buyer will not be covered as to the 'ground-level'. Presently, I have 2 bedrooms and 1 bath upstairs. Downstairs/ground level is another bedroom and bath, as well as utility room (water heater, electrical box). I can claim if selling, that it is a 3 bedroom, two bath house, but the buyer will not get coverage for the downstairs bedroom, bath or utility room. The walls are knock out walls, but only one blew out in the 7' of water I had. This is my primary residence.

Now if someone could tell me how screwed over I am so I can call wonderful Maxine Waters and that other fine idiot, Leslie Biggert, and tell them they are welcome to go on a free wade-fishing trip at the Flower Gardens courtesy of all the folks along the Texas Coast. I can pay off my mortgage, but feel dang sorry for the rest of the folks that cannot and will be forced to either pay up or default on their mortgage, causing a huge mortgage crisis and depressed housing market and extreme unemployment. I'd also like to know how the N.O.L.A. folks handle this crummy Act as well as the Yankees in NJ and NY (Sandy) as well as all along the East Coast. Biggert and Waters are both dumber than dirt by failing to see the dire financial implications of their Act, especially when us (you, me and the rest of Houston) saw all those fine and lovely Katrina UNINSURED folks buying Louis Vuitton Purses with their FREE FEMA Cards!!! And YES, we still are paying for some of that trash.

BTW, am now AE 14 on FEMA Map


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## bcoastal (Aug 8, 2012)

Here are the new rate tables effective Jan 1st.

http://www.fema.gov/media-library-d...69fccc492ab2ca/change_package_508_oct2013.pdf


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## warlock (Mar 27, 2006)

Jamaca Cove...based on your current rate, prefirm and the new law expect about 8K a year in 5 years...be glad your not in a v zone or it woud be 15-16K...then again a map revsion and your there. 

The law is designed to drive everyone to an elevation certificate and then you would be a submit for rate and those rates are not published.

My argument...Detroit in 10 years, or back to pre 68 where there was no flood and only those who paid cash and could afford to rebuild had a simple beach house.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Worlock

Well I know you do understand pre firm houses were (before B-W) were at a different cheaper rate but as of now that has all changed. Not sure what is going to happen when it is delayed. (if it happens). Great to hear of your involvement with NFIP thats good news. I have been in the middle of it for about 20 years and still have issues with them. Lots of times the underwriters still do not have the knowledge of how to administer the program and rate homes improperly.Some are still trying to rate louvers as walls. Been going on for years. Good luck.


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## bcoastal (Aug 8, 2012)

Can someone help me answer these questions...

1. Why can't my insurance (USAA) tell me what my insurance rate will increase to until may?
2. Where does FEMA say my rates will not increase more than 25%? (This is the only thing my insurance agent told tell me but I think they are wrong. I think I will get it all at once.)
3. Can someone show me where homesteading your house causes your premium to be less? 

From what I have read... I am the hardest hit because I purchased my home after July 6, 2012 and am 2 feet below BFE. Sounds crazy but I am estimating paying well over 6800/yr on 150k from what I can estimate...

This is the table from FEMA that applies to me....


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## Gottagofishin (Dec 17, 2005)

bcoastal said:


> Can someone help me answer these questions...
> 
> 1. Why can't my insurance (USAA) tell me what my insurance rate will increase to until may?
> 2. Where does FEMA say my rates will not increase more than 25%? (This is the only thing my insurance agent told tell me but I think they are wrong. I think I will get it all at once.)
> ...


i think you might have an extra 0 in your calculation. I'm in zone A17, my Elevation cert says I'm at 15'6". I have $250k on the structure and $100k on contents and I pay a little over $900/ year. That's my new rate. It was $600 and change.


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## bcoastal (Aug 8, 2012)

Gottagofishin said:


> i think you might have an extra 0 in your calculation. I'm in zone A17, my Elevation cert says I'm at 15'6". I have $250k on the structure and $100k on contents and I pay a little over $900/ year. That's my new rate. It was $600 and change.


Whats your BFE? and when did you get your policy renewed?


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## Gottagofishin (Dec 17, 2005)

Policy was just renewed last week. BFE is 17. IIRC. Mrs GGF filed it, she's gone and I can't find it.


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## bcoastal (Aug 8, 2012)

Gottagofishing,

Wow that seems low. Did you purchase before July 6 2012?

I'm calculating 6800 by multiplying 150000 x .044 (the -1 rate and my elevation is actually -2) There is a completely separate table for those who purchased after July 6 2012.


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## Gottagofishin (Dec 17, 2005)

You've got an extra 0. 150,000/100*.44=660. 

Bought my current house two years ago, but two of the people I polled in JB have bought this year. One in November and they have similar rates. 

I have to be honest. I used to think I knew how flood rates worked, but based on the thread, I'm not so sure. 

All I know is that I can live with my current rate. At some point if it gets out of hand I'll self insure.


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## warlock (Mar 27, 2006)

If you are -2 below the BFE in and A zone there is a rating error at $660 a year...this is submit for rate only situation and probably a 5-6 K policy with those limits...happens...but can be an issue if there is a loss. Did you assume a policy? Somewhere somebody probably fudged the numbers....


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## Big Willy (Jun 20, 2007)

warlock said:


> If you are -2 below the BFE in and A zone there is a rating error at $660 a year...this is submit for rate only situation and probably a 5-6 K policy with those limits...happens...but can be an issue if there is a loss. Did you assume a policy? Somewhere somebody probably fudged the numbers....


Yeah, I was wondering the same thing. I'm -1 foot BFE and my insurance is over $3000 annually. Not sure how someone is getting a rate of $660 annually at -2 unless there community did some major flood improvements. Even then, I can't image it coming down that much.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

gottagofishing

Again check your BFE just because you are A 17 does not mean your requirements are 17 ft. never saw a A zone with required 17 ft elevation. A zones are less stringent than V zones and elevations are normally less. Where are you located (I didnt check). I would guess your BFE would be in the 14 -15 ft range.Another thing the new elevation requirements (proposed changes) are not in effect. Your BFE is the same as it has been for past years.


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## Gottagofishin (Dec 17, 2005)

You guys may all be right, but I know my insurance and the insurance of everyone I polled in JB is reasonable. Maybe they made a mistake on all of us, but if so, I'm not complaining. 

I bought my house a little over two years ago. The PO did not carry flood. I got flood through my regular agent. The latest statement from FEMA I received last week has me in zone A17. It was A14 last year. It doesn't say anything about BFE, but BFE was 14 when I bought the house. My elevation is 15'7" according to my elevation certificate. I am not pre-FIRM. My annual premium is $937 for $350k in coverage. I'm on the main canal about 100 yds from w. Bay. Those are the known facts. 

Not sure why others premiums are so high.


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## bcoastal (Aug 8, 2012)

Gottagofishin said:


> You've got an extra 0. 150,000/100*.44=660.


No I have it right. 4.4 dollars per 100 is 4.4%. 150,000 x .044 is 6800. And thats at -1. GGF, your at +1 elevation which looks like it will increase 1175 at 250k. If you do the 25%/yr thing that adds almost 300 and your there. There is a huge difference between +1 and -1 to BFE.

I am looking for any light but fear I am worst case scenario. Pre-FIRM, -2 Below BFE, recently purchased home and can't afford to pay off my mortgage to get out of insurance. I am a teacher and will find it hard to afford such an increase in insurance. If this hits me all at once then I will be forced to foreclose.

I'm going see if I can make some calls today to get some solid answers.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

gottagofishing

I am sure your BFE is still 14. That hasent changed as of yet.


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## tx_catfish (Dec 18, 2005)

I agree with Charlie. The new maps are not effective yet. FEMA has delayed them until December 2014. That's when your BFE should increase from A14 to A17. You can use the link below to compare the new maps to the old maps.

http://maps.riskmap6.com/TX/Galveston/


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## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

from today's local paper

Copyright owned by the Galveston Daily News www.galvnews.com



> *Bill would curb rate hikes for flood insurance*
> 
> * By WES SWIFT | Posted: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 12:20 am *
> WASHINGTON â€" Homeowners would keep their subsidized flood insurance premiums and would be able to pass those lower rates on to future buyers of those homes under a bill the U.S. House of Representatives will vote on this week.
> ...


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## Gottagofishin (Dec 17, 2005)

Bcoastal,

You're right. I wasn't wearing my reading glasses. :redface:

I still can't get to my new rate from the table you posted, so I'm not sure what to tell you. I'll try to do a little research this afternoon.


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## bcoastal (Aug 8, 2012)

Just got off the phone with FEMA and they told me there is no such thing as a limited increase of 25%. It looks like I will be hit with the full amount in June. Now I am getting a quote through another insurance company to find out what what my new rates will be....


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## FISH ON (May 22, 2004)

Well it was looking better until I saw that second homes were not covered under new bill. Looks like a house is a house whether it is first or second. On Bolivar I would guess 80%-90% are second homes like many others on the coast.


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## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

bcoastal said:


> Just got off the phone with FEMA and they told me there is no such thing as a limited increase of 25%. It looks like I will be hit with the full amount in June. Now I am getting a quote through another insurance company to find out what what my new rates will be....


I didn't find any difference in rates for flood between companies last in Aug. Windstorm and homeowners, yes. It was a lot of work though and I studied for the exam. It doesn't take much to catch the eye of the underwriters.


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## warlock (Mar 27, 2006)

Just to clear something up and numbered A zone say A-17 does not mean the base flood is at 17...zones are numbered using and engineering system that shows how much faster it will flood to a higher level in an event. A-1 is the most unlikely to flood an additional 1 foot above the base flood and think of being on a coastal plain where miles and miles of area would have to be flooded to raise the water level, verses a Mountain Valley A-30 where a flash flood and the water has no where to go a one foot rise could come with only a little additional water.

There should be a rate difference between the two but there is not.

Here is the problem with BW12.

Prefirm rates go away...no longer will the debate of the bottom floor exist...Any home on a slab with the new maps loses 30-50% of its value if previously on a prefirm flood policy.

Even though you built to code and followed the rules it does not make a difference...you get the new maps and new base flood elevations. No grandfathering...none!

Homes built 10 years ago in Seabrook Kemah Texas City you pick a coastal community, that were out side the 500 year flood plain and required no flood insurance for a mortgage are soon to find themselves in often A and V zones and now will require it.

5-15K Flood policies would become the norm.

You can write off places like Tiki and anything on the west end as even slatted walls are obstructions now ... places like Bayou vista are toast.

Communities will cease to exist as tax bases fall and property values plummet...Detroit is the best example...

The delay bill in the house is being voted on this week is simply a delay and extends the slow death. It would have to go to conference and frankly right now has less than a 50% chance of passing

FYI Both our Senators voted against the delay...and there is huge opposition against any change to BW 12.

Dave Norman
http://davenormanforcongress.com/


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## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

Traditionally speaking, flood insurance has been the cheapest insurance that you have had the highest chance of making a claim on. 

That's what's wrong with the game in 25 words or less.


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## Profish00 (May 21, 2004)

hwell:


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## warlock (Mar 27, 2006)

Mont is 100% correct, that's why there is no private market...cause there is no money in it. The problem is we need to be weaned off the government but sort of sad when it also the one to drive you into bankruptcy...FYI the rest of the nation does not care...


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## Gottagofishin (Dec 17, 2005)

Just some more data. I pulled my renewal statement. My rates effective 10/21/2013 (i was mistaken earlier on the date) .82/.08 on the building. 

the .82 applies to the first $60K of coverage and .08 applies to any coverage over 60K.

I talked to my agent this morning and she said the pre-firm folks in A and V zones are the ones getting hit the hardest. She said A zones with an elevation certificate above BFE are only seeing a nominal impact. For now.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Warlock

Sorry sir but louvers, lattice, or screen are still rated as no obstructions. Nothing. A downstairs completely enclosed with louvers is still rated as "no obstructions"


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## warlock (Mar 27, 2006)

Charlie,

We are talking the signed legeslation that has not taken effect for most and no grandfathering...your in an A it changes to a V it does no matter they are now all obstructions...period...the past no longer exist under BW12 thats why its so bad! Tiki is hammered by the new maps and this!

Anyone would be stupid to start construction today base on the current thinking on building used in the last ten years. Sad but true.


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## MarkU (Jun 3, 2013)

Question... My current flood on my home is $2,600.00 based on 158k replacement. I owe around $55k on the house. I renew July 24th this year. Can you drop your flood coverage down to the payoff, or 10% over payoff? My last house, which got killed by Ike. I had 40k flood coverage on the house. I owned it out right, never thought the whole thing would get wiped out. I could have had it insured for about $120K. But saw no reason, at the time to pay the higher premium.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Warlock

I am gonna have to check that out regarding louvers being obstructions. You saying CFR's have all been changed. I worked too hard to get louvers approved and in writing. Also Most of Tiki is staying the same regarding elevations and some even lower. But saying that we have not been rated correctly since the beginning and now its changing for the better (hopefully)


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Warlock

Yes the prefirm's are getting hit hard but need to let you know that louvers, insect screening and latticework are still considered nothing no walls etc.If you talk to some underwriters they will tell you or rate louvers as walls but they are always making that mistake. They are not properly trained to administer a program. I have had to correct that issue many times. And some A's are staying A's but some are going to V. Some V's are going back to A's . I am sure you have seen the maps. Some elevations are being lowered and some raised and again that has not been implemented.


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## capt. david (Dec 29, 2004)

This chit is so confusing!!! I will find out when my policy renews in April. Glad I live in a shack.


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## warlock (Mar 27, 2006)

Charlie,

Things are changing thats the only thing I am saying...sorry to be the messenger...not my doing...hope it works for you.


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## bcoastal (Aug 8, 2012)

CHARLIE said:


> gottagofishing
> 
> No the number does not designate the elevation requirements. You need to check on that and* I strongly reccomend you homestead* the place otherwise its gonna go out of sight (insurance premiums).


Where does FEMA say that homestead will save you any money?


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

bcoastal

In speaking with FEMA reps amd insurance folks they mentioned that homesteads were not going to be as impacted as 2nd homes. That was a few months back but I guarantee tomorrow I am going to check at the top (if I can reach them sometimes it takes a few days) and try and get some answers.


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## Kenner 23 (Sep 14, 2009)

MarkU said:


> Question... My current flood on my home is $2,600.00 based on 158k replacement. I owe around $55k on the house. I renew July 24th this year. Can you drop your flood coverage down to the payoff, or 10% over payoff? My last house, which got killed by Ike. I had 40k flood coverage on the house. I owned it out right, never thought the whole thing would get wiped out. I could have had it insured for about $120K. But saw no reason, at the time to pay the higher premium.


Nope, must insure for full replacement.


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## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

from this morning's paper.

Copyright owned by www.galvnews.com



> *Local interests win big if HR 3370 passes*
> 
> * By WES SWIFT | Posted: Wednesday, February 26, 2014 12:25 am *
> If youâ€™re a homeowner or a Realtor in Galveston County, House bill 3370 should make you jump for joy.
> ...


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## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

Copyright owned by www.galvnews.com


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## Bevojoe (Apr 25, 2012)

all good changes. glad to see somebody is at least trying. However, until FEMA addresses the root cause of the problem, none of this will fix NFIP. They MUST stop paying for damage that wasn't insured. as mentioned on here before, Katrina and Sandy claims for uninsured properties is what's killing the program. that's just bad business.


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## capt. david (Dec 29, 2004)

X100000! Exactly/\ It happened here too after IKE. If you don't have flood and something happens, don't ask for help.


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## warlock (Mar 27, 2006)

We are pushing for a vote on HR 3370 by the end of the week and skipping commitee hearings with a super majority that might be possible, all the local Reps are on board best I can tell.

Downside...this is nothing like the Senate Bill and they have rejected bills like this and will most likly die back on that side...its not time to celebrate, most of this is politicle so reps can say they voted to amend the law going into the election season....prefirm homes still get hammered no matter what with any of this legeslation.

FYI Homesteading is not even in the NFIP venacular, only Primary and Secondary...Primary Homes (Live there Physically nine months of the year) get to the new rates a little slower than secondary homes in the current law (And any fixes). Sell the home and new owner gets it all....


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## bcoastal (Aug 8, 2012)

warlock said:


> FYI Homesteading is not even in the NFIP venacular, only Primary and Secondary...Primary Homes (Live there Physically nine months of the year) get to the new rates a little slower than secondary homes in the current law (And any fixes). Sell the home and new owner gets it all....


Warlock,

Where did you find this information? I called FEMA yesterday and they told me I will get 100% of new rate when I renew. They said people have be telling them rate can only increase 25% or whatever but that is not true... (I bought after july 2012)

Getting solid information seems to be very difficult... Insurance agents, FEMA and new reporters are reporting different information. The problem is that almost everyone applies differently to the rate tables depending on your zone, FE to BFE, year build, subsidies, time home was purchased etc etc... any one change to one factor could mean the difference in thousands of dollars.

It is going to take 1 year to really see the whole picture as everyone renues and finds out when they get their notice of changes to their policy.

Here is HR 3370's status https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/113/hr3370
33% being enacted.. whatever that means...


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## jeff.w (Jan 22, 2006)

What a cluster ****. I feel for you guys. Glad I don't have any coastal property. Good luck to those affected.


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## MarkU (Jun 3, 2013)

R Little said:


> Nope, must insure for full replacement.


Who told you this? Just curious. I spoke to my agent. She seems to think it's the mortgage holders call. I do know we normally get a couple options for coverage amounts every year we renew. At least I have been for the last 10+ years.

Who determines the homes value? On the tax roles my place is around 120k. That is going to drop drastically as soon as a sell off happens.


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## warlock (Mar 27, 2006)

Bcoastal,

I was commenting only in the situation of there is no such thing as homesteading and depending whether it is rated as a primary and secondary dwelling prefirm....prior to enactment of BW12, if you bought after in July they are correct...I could discuss the whole 250 page act but it would take days...


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## bcoastal (Aug 8, 2012)

What do the banks do about flood insurance on foreclosed properties? Do they assume the huge premium? If so the banks are not going to want these properties very long...


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## bcoastal (Aug 8, 2012)

Just got my quote from the insurance 3700 for 155k building and 15k contents. That is an increase from 1400. The breakdown is not what I expected. Building was 60k was at 5.5% and last 95k at .95%. Contents was 15k at 3.2%

This is with the highest deductable of 5k.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Bcoastal

Re homestead vs 2nd home. See the chart that Mont posted. Seems they have resorted to referring to homes as primary and secondary. Wonder how that can be proven. (amount of time spent in each home). Guess thats why they originally were calling homestead and 2nd home.


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## warlock (Mar 27, 2006)

Charlie,

Since 1972 the application asked if it is a primary or secondary home. Homsteading is for property tax purposes in Texas...This is a national program and does not use Texas language. Never has NFIP used the term.

At the time of loss they verify...if the suspect you are lying they investigate...BW 12 change the requirement to 9 months from 6 so you might even have two homes and live in them six months each and now they are both secondary.

Secondary Homes are ACV and have no replacement cost on the dwelling even though there is no difference in rates per se, unless your a current homeowner migrating to the unsubsidised rate. Everyone will get there at some point in time.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Warlock

You are correct but, Agents use it all the time instead of primary and secondary home.
What's ACV ?


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## monkeyman1 (Dec 30, 2007)

Our 12/13 thru 12/14 rate for Bolivar (Zone V19/VE) is 2.31 with no contents insured.

Coverage Limit = $204K
Deductible = $5K
Deductible Discount = $-1013
Premium = $3,699
ICC Premium = $18.00
Reserve Fund Assessment = $186
Federal Policy Fee = $44
Total Premium = $3,947

The current policy premium was the same as the previous year.


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## Profish00 (May 21, 2004)

I raised my deductible to $5000 and have 50K contents 250K building in zone V20 and it went down about $150 from last year, I renewed this month. I_t is now $1842 a year_.


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## capt. david (Dec 29, 2004)

Actual cash value charlie.


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## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

It sounds like some of y'all will be at 5% per year plus once the other insurances are added in. That's more than most folks pay on their mortgage.


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## tcbayman (Apr 27, 2006)

This sure does put a roadblock on my plans to buy a house on the water this year.


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## Runway (Feb 6, 2005)

I opened and printed the 354 pages of the bill and will start to tackle it tonight, zzzzzzzzzzzzz


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## smokinguntoo (Mar 28, 2012)

Profish00 said:


> They don't have to be on the water, it"s all of us.


Correct. A man that "understands the program" as Stevens and Pruitt used to say.

SG2


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## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

tcbayman said:


> This sure does put a roadblock on my plans to buy a house on the water this year.


From the sound of things, anywhere within several miles will be affected. Let's face it. Had Ike hit square on Galveston Bay, it would have wiped us clean, just like it did Bolivar. That's what the insurance companies are looking at. One direct hit on a major metro area and there won't be enough money for China to loan us to build it back. I sure hope I never see it. We are 3 miles from Galveston Bay as the crow flies. It would be prairie between here and Galveston if that cold front hadn't have pushed Ike up coast like it did.


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## Kenner 23 (Sep 14, 2009)

MarkU said:


> Who told you this? Just curious.  I spoke to my agent. She seems to think it's the mortgage holders call. I do know we normally get a couple options for coverage amounts every year we renew. At least I have been for the last 10+ years.
> 
> Who determines the homes value? On the tax roles my place is around 120k. That is going to drop drastically as soon as a sell off happens.


Have never seen a mortgagee allow coverage to be decreased to loan amount in 14 yrs of selling insurance. Seen insureds sell stocks,animals to pay off mortgage so they could drop or decrease flood coverage.


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## Runway (Feb 6, 2005)

According to a news report today, Rep. Michael Grimm (R-NY) said that minor edits were being made to the bi-partisan bill, and that he expected it to pass on Thursday. The story in "Roll Call News" said that even Maxine Waters was in on the edits being made to HB-3370. This won't make the problem go away, but will at least give us a little breathing room and take on what I personally believe are some required changes in the whole program and keep the increases at a somewhat manageable level.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Thanks Capn.

Monkeyman
Are you above base flood elevation and what do you have downstairs ?


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## monkeyman1 (Dec 30, 2007)

CHARLIE said:


> Thanks Capn.
> 
> Monkeyman
> Are you above base flood elevation and what do you have downstairs ?


I've been looking at how to find this out. From what I can figure out from the 100's of pages of stuff I looked at, FEMA is billing me at BFE +1. How do I tell if I am above BFE for certain?

We have a storage room downstairs with breakaway walls (no louvers). We learned from hurricane Ike to keep little or nothing of value in the house nor the garage. All of our furniture in the house is second-hand, meaning we purchased other furniture and moved the old stuff to the beach. The TV's are the huge/deep/heavy/ugly variety that are disposable these days. If the storm don't get our stuff, the looters won't want it.


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## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

From this morning's paper

Copyright owed by http://www.galvestondailynews.com



> *Flood insurance vote delayed*
> 
> * By WES SWIFT | Posted: Thursday, February 27, 2014 12:25 am *
> Facing opposition from conservative groups, GOP leaders in the U.S. House of Representatives postponed a vote on a bill that would undo some recent reforms to the nationâ€™s flood insurance program that critics say could harm property owners and real estate markets.
> ...


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## Gottagofishin (Dec 17, 2005)

I find the conservative opposition interesting. A big part of their base lives along the Gulf Coast and benefits from the subsidies. It's not just rich people with Beach houses. 

As a consumer, I enjoy the benefit of the subsidies. Although when you consider I got a whopping $700 against 30k in damage after Ike. It feels like I'm doing the subsidizing. 

However, as a fiscal conservative and free market capitalist, I'm not going to be hypocritical and whine about it. The current system is broken and the capital markets will fix it faster than the govt. 

That said, the reforms need to be phased in to give people and economies time to adjust.


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## warlock (Mar 27, 2006)

Just like I called it two days ago, back to comittee, and frankly its dead, again...

We frog march to the Detroit look a like...when the new maps finally hit.


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## FISH ON (May 22, 2004)

Warlock, you said you were running for congress. Where are our representatives from Texas. Why aren't they looking out for us in this mess? From what I saw it was a cat from New York that authored the bill to get the B-W repeal or slow down. I am disgusted with our representatives . thanks for your work and post on this. Ronnie


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## txjustin (Jun 3, 2009)

Gottagofishin said:


> I find the conservative opposition interesting. A big part of their base lives along the Gulf Coast and benefits from the subsidies. It's not just rich people with Beach houses.
> 
> As a consumer, I enjoy the benefit of the subsidies. Although when you consider I got a whopping $700 against 30k in damage after Ike. It feels like I'm doing the subsidizing.
> 
> ...


Absolutely agree, even though I don't own on the coast. Glad you kept your fiscal conservatism intact even though it will adversely affect you.


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## bcoastal (Aug 8, 2012)

warlock said:


> Just like I called it two days ago, back to comittee, and frankly its dead, again...
> 
> We frog march to the Detroit look a like...when the new maps finally hit.


Where you can you find the new maps? Is Harris county already implementing new maps to calculate BFE or this going to be something else that skyrockets my premiums?


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## warlock (Mar 27, 2006)

"I want FEMA to conduct the affordability study they were mandated to do by Congress when the Biggert-Waters Act of 2012 was passed and signed into law. This study should have been completed by now, but FEMA said they needed more time. It doesnâ€™t make sense for these rates to implemented, especially when the impacts of Biggert-Waters are not fully understood and could ultimately force people out of their homes due to dramatic increases in the costs of premiums.

Eventually, the program should be abolished. I do not believe it is the governmentâ€™s responsibility to manage flood insurance for the entire nation. The ultimate goal should be allowing the free market to step in and provide this service.

For more information concerning my work and views related to Flood Insurance, please contact me.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Thank you."

This is typical of how one Coastal Rep feels...basically does not defend his constituents and does not understand the impact now or any sence of urgency...happens to be local. Everyone understands that prefirm repetitive loss homes that cause 25-30% of all losses need to be addressed. But to saddle people who have never flooded with 1000% increases based on a GOA study in 2008 and no actuary data is absurd...Communities follow the and rules built above the base flood only to have the Fed change the rules and make our single most important asset our home worthless.


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## Jamaica Cove (Apr 2, 2008)

warlock said:


> " Everyone understands that prefirm repetitive loss homes that cause 25-30% of all losses need to be addressed. But to saddle people who have never flooded with 1000% increases based on a GOA study in 2008 and no actuary data is absurd...*Communities follow the and rules built above the base flood only to have the Fed change the rules and make our single most important asset our home worthless*.


I truly believe that these POS Congress members will all be hung out to dry for their FAILURE to properly address Leslie Biggert and Maxine Waters dumb Act and hope they all burn in Hades.

For me, someone that bought as a primary residence (as well as MILLIONS of others) based on the FACT that FEMA covered us as to Flood, and we EXPECT the Government to abide by its word and then pull this **** is beyond reasonable, fair or just. No word describes the Act except BULLCHIP!!

I honestly HOPE Waters and Biggert suffer immensely.


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## smokinguntoo (Mar 28, 2012)

It would be a service for someone to find out who voted for this absurdity and cal them out.

SG2


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## grouper150 (Oct 24, 2006)

Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 9:57 AM
Wed, 9:57 AM
https://us-mg205.mail.yahoo.com/neo/launch?.partner=sbc&retry_ssl=1#
Message starred 
*Reply from Senator Cruz 1 *

FROM [email protected] TO You

Show Details 
From

[email protected] 

To

[email protected] 

#yiv1238896016 #yiv1238896016letter_header {margin-top:0px !important;**United States Senate
*Washington, DC 20510*​Dear Alan,
Thank you for sharing your thoughts regarding flood insurance. Input from fellow Texans significantly informs my decision-making and empowers me to better represent the state. 
Senator Menendez's Biggert-Waters legislation to delay the new requirements for flood insurance passed the Senate on Thursday, January 30th, 2014, by a vote of 67-32. I voted against passage of this legislation because it does not fix the real problems with flood insurance, but rather makes the situation worse. This legislation undercuts the financial health of a program already in severe distress, which hinders FEMA's ability to effectively respond to the next bad storm.
There are issues with existing law that deserve to be addressed and positive solutions that were presented. For example, Senator Pat Toomey's substitute amendment would have gradually phased in the reforms required by the 2012 flood insurance program reauthorization, rather than simply delaying them. Unfortunately, this amendment was not accepted in the final Senate legislation, so I could not support it.

Thank you for sharing your views with me. Please feel free to contact me in the future about any issue important to your family. It is an honor to serve you and the people of Texas.
For Liberty,









Senator Ted Cruz
*Austin Office*
300 E. 8th, Suite #961
Austin, TX 78701
Phone: (512) 916-5834
*Dallas Office*
10440 N Central Expwy, Suite #1160
Dallas, TX 75231
Phone: (214) 361-3500
*Houston Office*
1919 Smith St., Suite #800
Houston, TX 77002
Phone: (713) 653-3456
*San Antonio Office*
3133 General Hudnell Dr., Suite # 120
San Antonio, TX 78226
Phone: (210) 340-2885
*Washington Office*
B40B Dirksen Senate Office Building
Washington, DC 20510
Phone: (202) 224-5922​​


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## Jamaica Cove (Apr 2, 2008)

I just emailed Ted-if you don't hear from me, call my attorney!! I basically said us Coastal folks are gonna become "Gimmedats" and want free phones, high speed internet, Section 8 housing and drop welfare babies because we will lose our homes, jobs and will turn into "Gimmedats" and end up voting for whoever promises the most free stuff like the current POTUS wants/did. I asked him to look how badly it will affect the economy as a whole (housing, mortgage, jobs, etc.) and repeal the Act or amend it.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Time to really get to our representatives. (If you want to call em that) What a joke. Another reminder the new zones have not been put in effect yet so everyone is still whatever you have been for a while. Regarding zone maps I havent looked but have been told they are on the net.


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## bcoastal (Aug 8, 2012)

CHARLIE said:


> Time to really get to our representatives. (If you want to call em that) What a joke. Another reminder the new zones have not been put in effect yet so everyone is still whatever you have been for a while. Regarding zone maps I havent looked but have been told they are on the net.


http://maps.riskmap6.com/

Wow. What a difference.... This looks very bad for my neighborhood.


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## Torque (May 22, 2004)

Thanks for the link


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## Runway (Feb 6, 2005)

Torque said:


> Thanks for the link


Ditto, but I need to get to a desktop. The app doesn't work well on an IPad.


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## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

The one for my house looks pretty accurate based on what we saw during Allison. Does anyone know if the rates will be based on the property or the structure? The back corner of my lot is a flood hazard (it's a bayou), but the blue line misses all of our houses, mine included. During Allison, water got close, but that was it.


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## Gottagofishin (Dec 17, 2005)

bcoastal said:


> http://maps.riskmap6.com/
> 
> Wow. What a difference.... This looks very bad for my neighborhood.


According to this my BFE is going down to 11. I'm two houses from the 11/13 line. Overall, Jamaica Beach on the Bayside looks like it will benefit from the new flood maps.

I'm currently +1, this would make me +4. I know the rate will go up, but maybe the extra 3 feet above BFE will offset that.

Sometimes you get lucky.

BTW. 11 matches the estimated storm surge we got during Ike. I don't know if that is coincidence or not.


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## capt. david (Dec 29, 2004)

How do you read that map and what changes were made in Jamaica Beach? Captain Hook to be exact. FEMA's need to give money to people who never paid in is the problem!!


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## MarkU (Jun 3, 2013)

2/3 of my house is in BFE 14. The other BFE 1/3 is BFE 13. I doubt they'll give me the 13...


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## Gottagofishin (Dec 17, 2005)

capt. david said:


> How do you read that map and what changes were made in Jamaica Beach? Captain Hook to be exact. FEMA's need to give money to people who never paid in is the problem!!


Captain Hook is BFE 13 according to the map. It goes up as you get closer to the beach.

Most of JB on the bay side is AE Zone BFE 11. Closer to the beach goes up anf the beach side of 3005 is VE. Bayfront is BFE14 and a VE zone. The 2nd and 3rd rows in from the bay are BFE 13, AE zone.


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## warlock (Mar 27, 2006)

Suggested letter to Rep..co-op and modified from a coalition letter but has the right launguage...

To: Member of the House of Representatives
Re: Support for H.R. 3370, The Homeowner Flood Insurance Affordability Act
I support H.R. 3370, the Homeowner Flood Insurance Affordability Act, and urge its passage. The legislation achieves many of the most important goals of protecting both property owners who have played by the rules and settling real estate markets, while preserving the intent to offer flood insurance at true risk rates. 
The legislation ensures that flood insurance will remain affordable for those who have built to code at the time of construction. It also removes the property sales trigger, which will provide a sense of security to the real estate market and treat both current property owners and potential purchasers equally. The legislation includes several other positive provisions that I support, including increasing the home improvement threshold, reimbursing policyholders for successful map changes, preserving the basement exception, addressing problems relating to escrow accounts for policy holders, and refunding policyholders who purchased pre-FIRM homes after the enactment of the Biggert-Waters Act and subsequently paid higher rates. 
I support a fiscally sound, actuarially responsible NFIP that communicates to citizens their true flood risk. We do not support the continued subsidization of severe repetitive loss properties. However, we must protect property owners who have built as their government told them. With this in mind, we have a dual goal: to find an immediate solution to the unintended consequences of Biggert-Waters; and, to develop a long-term solution that works for America. The Homeowner Flood Insurance Affordability Act sets us on the path to accomplishing that.
For these reasons, please vote for passage of the legislation.
Sincerely,


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## Charlie in TX (May 4, 2012)

I have 3 lots that are BFE12. I have considered building on someday. What does BFE12 mean? I have to build 12 ft above sea level? I know things can change with a stroke of a pin. I guess I will be in the RV for a while. 3 kids with collage in the future.


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## drifterpro (Jul 6, 2004)

Don't look for any slack from FEMA, I live in Lufkin on the west side of the city. We are 20 plus miles from Lake Rayburn, however we do have a creek about 100 yds away. We have never flooded or come close. FEMA Pinheads have decided we are in a flood plain. they show 1/10th of a foot of our home, the south corner, is in the plain and the Flood Insurance is $6800. per year. We paid our house off and insured the first floor the cost is $2000. per year. We too cannot think of moving because the house won't sell. We appealed the decision and first FEMA charged us $460.00 to look at the appeal, we had the elevation done @ $650.00 X2, we had to pay another $650.00 to get the elevation of the new Angelina County Bridge about 150 yards away done with a certified elevation. This sorry County Judge will not have a Base Elevation Set for the County...the City of Lufkin has one we looked at getting a private company to do our elevation from the city limits but that would be another $12,000. out of pocket with no promise of success. So I can't hear the waves, hell I have not even seen a gull since I moved from La Porte and FEMA has hit me in the rolling hills of East Texas too. Good Luck guys it's only money.


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## Johnboat (Jun 7, 2004)

*"BFE" for dummies*

On the map I think I am BFE 15, but it might be BFE 14 because the map is sort of a cartoon and it is hard to tell.

My 2009 elevation certificate says Base Flood Elevation is 14' in Flood Zone V-16.

What does the number mean? Is higher better or worse?

I don't currently carry flood insurance, just homeowners and windstorm.


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## bcoastal (Aug 8, 2012)

warlock said:


> The legislation ensures that flood insurance will remain affordable for those who have built to code at the time of construction.


How does this apply to pre-FIRM homes?


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## Gottagofishin (Dec 17, 2005)

Johnboat said:


> On the map I think I am BFE 15, but it might be BFE 14 because the map is sort of a cartoon and it is hard to tell.
> 
> QUOTE]Did you try zooming in? You can see the individual lots where I am if you zoom all the way in.


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## Profish00 (May 21, 2004)

Johnboat said:


> On the map I think I am BFE 15, but it might be BFE 14 because the map is sort of a cartoon and it is hard to tell.
> 
> My 2009 elevation certificate says Base Flood Elevation is 14' in Flood Zone V-16.
> 
> ...


BFE on map= lower better (mine is 15)
BFE on elevation certificate higher is better (mine is 16), expecialy if it is higher number than the map


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## Runway (Feb 6, 2005)

Thanks Warlock for the language in your last post.
Obviously this should go to my reps, but should it be sent to all of the people voting on this?


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## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

Profish00 said:


> BFE on map= lower better (mine is 15)
> BFE on elevation certificate higher is better (mine is 16), expecialy if it is higher number than the map


according to FEMA, BFE on the map is how high the water will get during a flood.



> The computed elevation to which floodwater is anticipated to rise during the base flood. Base Flood Elevations (BFEs) are shown on Flood Insurance Rate Maps (FIRMs) and on the flood profiles.


So your 16 foot elevation means you are 1 foot above the flood level. If I am wrong, someone correct me. This has to be the most confusing
set of regulations ever.


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## Kenner 23 (Sep 14, 2009)

Higher the elevation the cheaper the flood premium but it works opposite for wind, higher you are the more expensive wind premium is.


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## SYCO (Dec 1, 2007)

BFE= Base Flood Elevation, if it differs between the map and elevation certificate that means the map was probably updated after the elevation certificate was completed and the NFIP will use the current BFE for your property

what you look for after that on the elevation certificate is the lowest floor elevation or top of the bottom floor, that is where you want it to read higher than the BFE because the higher up the bottom floor is compared to the BFE the cheaper the rate will be......in theory


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## Gottagofishin (Dec 17, 2005)

Mont said:


> according to FEMA, BFE on the map is how high the water will get during a flood.
> 
> So your 16 foot elevation means you are 1 foot above the flood level. If I am wrong, someone correct me. This has to be the most confusing
> set of regulations ever.


That's the way I read it. You are right about confusing.


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## Profish00 (May 21, 2004)

Mont said:


> according to FEMA, BFE on the map is how high the water will get during a flood.
> 
> So your 16 foot elevation means you are 1 foot above the flood level. If I am wrong, someone correct me. This has to be the most confusing
> set of regulations ever.


Yes, thats how I see it, bad news for everyone else is my home is 2/4 feet higher than most on the island, accept the new construction ones.


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## FISH ON (May 22, 2004)

(what you look for after that on the elevation certificate is the lowest floor elevation or top of the bottom floor, that is where you want it to read higher) . I think he is in V zone so he will measure from the bottom not the top of floor. to the bottom of the lowest horizontal member is the wording in policy. So if that is a 2x12 will gain almost another foot. that's the way I read it . ronnie


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## SaltWaterHooker (May 10, 2011)

bcoastal said:


> How does this apply to pre-FIRM homes?


Preifirm your screwed. in last 2 years mine has gone from $1200 to $2200. I just submitted an elevation certificate says mine is 13.64', BFE 14. Enginer says they round up, so mine should meet the BFE14. If my rate goes up again I'm dropping it and taking my chances, screw FEMA. If wre have another storm them I will go. to them with my hand out just like all those that had no insurance and probably get a new house out of it.

Neither of our Texas Senators nor Randy Weber are supporting the House Bill to delay B-W, remember that next election.


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## bcoastal (Aug 8, 2012)

SaltWaterHooker said:


> Preifirm your screwed.


I am very aware of that. Im Pre-FIRM at -2 and new map is going to be -4. I just purchased this house. Have a mortgage which I can't pay off because I am teacher. All of my worth is tied up in this house and I don't see how I can get out of it... My only out right now is going to be a new job.

My question was to warlock and how perfirm is considered with the changes that are trying to be made with BW,,,


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

BFE (base flood elevation) is the minimum elevation in that area that FEMA says your floor or lowest supporting structure (stringer) should be. All new sructures are mandated to be at least this height. Another issue is this

BFE in A zone is actual height of the existing floor.
BFE in v zone is the actual height of the lowest supporting structure that supports the house. So if you have a 12 " stringer and then 10' floor joist that elevation would actually be about 2 feet below your floor.


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## Runway (Feb 6, 2005)

Caramba! I going to Sargent tonight to get a little fishing while I still can. :biggrin:


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## Bigwater (May 21, 2004)

One major problem was after Ike. The insurance companies threw money at all the repairs giving people almost double of what it really took to fix everything. Then they never came back to get what was left over.

Biggie


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## warlock (Mar 27, 2006)

Bcoastal,

Depending on the map delay, in 5 years at a -4 you have maxed out the rate table for a zone A with 250/100 (Dwelling/Contents) at a projected rate of $10,700 a year.

Lower amounts and higher deductables would make it cheaper but for the normal house probably not under 6k with the new law....this is why we are fighting so hard against this...DN


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## smokinguntoo (Mar 28, 2012)

Bigwater said:


> One major problem was after Ike. The insurance companies threw money at all the repairs giving people almost double of what it really took to fix everything. Then they never came back to get what was left over.
> 
> Biggie


The BIGGIE, Biggie, was GIVING AWAY multiple thousands of houses (exact number unknown, but a significant number), to uninsured/underinsured from Ike alone. No telling what that figure was for Katrina (which kind of set a precedent) or Sandy. Now they want the perceived HAVES to pay it back. And, how hard hearted are they going to be after the next storm with those folks and our money?

BTW: It won't be long until some of those folks reach the required residency time and some of those houses will be up for sale.

If they couldn't afford insurance under the highly subsidized plan, will they pay the new rates?

SG2


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## monkeyman1 (Dec 30, 2007)

I think I'll go into the construction business along the coast, raising the elevation of houses and adding supports when required.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Part of problem

You work hard build correctly and even better and buyflood insurance. Insurance pays for light switch, plug, and a few things downstairs. You pay giant premiums and actually get nothing in return. 

2nd senario
You dont build to codes, you buy no insurance, and get paid thousands for repair and replacement also along with relocations to other cities, pay your travel, rent and board. 
All paid by folks who actually buy insurance but get nothing in return. 

Now what's wrong with this picture. Come on Texas reresentatives where are you ??


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## kenny (May 21, 2004)

CHARLIE said:


> Part of problem
> 
> You work hard build correctly and even better and buyflood insurance. Insurance pays for light switch, plug, and a few things downstairs. You pay giant premiums and actually get nothing in return.
> 
> ...


In bed with the insurance lobbyist on K Street! :hairout:


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## kenny (May 21, 2004)

By changing the FEMA flood insurance "rules" for homeowners in all coastal areas, the Federal Government is creating the *exact same conditions* that existed when the Carter administration changed the tax law, which caused the real estate market collapse, which led to the Savings & Loan collapse and bail outs.


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## capt. david (Dec 29, 2004)

This act is going to have a effect on everyone, not just homeowners along the coast. Essentially it will be only the wealthy that can afford to live along the coast. With that will be less and less public beach access. The middle income family will no longer be able to live along the coast.


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## SaltWaterHooker (May 10, 2011)

Flooding in California and just wait till all that snow melts! B-W will effect far more than just coastal. Don't care where you are if you have flood insurance it's going up. If you don't have to have it you may soon need to they're redrawing all the flood maps.


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## MarkU (Jun 3, 2013)

So, looks like there may be a slight reprieve in flood ins.?

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101466241


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## Runway (Feb 6, 2005)

MarkU said:


> So, looks like there may be a slight reprieve in flood ins.?
> 
> http://www.cnbc.com/id/101466241


Can I get a "Hallelujah?"


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## tcbayman (Apr 27, 2006)

Maybe I am not reading it correctly, but to me it just takes it from a 25% increase a year to an 18% increase.


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## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

We are still going to pay to play, just later. It will be interesting to see what happens in the next 5 years or so. Nothing good, I would suspect.


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## Hardy2345 (Jan 14, 2008)

"The legislation also instructs the Federal Emergency Management Agency to have "an affordability target" that would seek to limit the cost of a flood insurance policy to 1 percent of a home's total coverage amount. "

This is the best part IMO.


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## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

Hardy2345 said:


> "The legislation also instructs the Federal Emergency Management Agency to have "an affordability target" that would seek to limit the cost of a flood insurance policy to 1 percent of a home's total coverage amount. "
> 
> This is the best part IMO.


The problem is that is still half the price of what it should be. 2% is closer. So, someone else is paying double or it's coming out of our taxes. There ain't no free lunches.


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## bcoastal (Aug 8, 2012)

Hardy2345 said:


> "The legislation also instructs the Federal Emergency Management Agency to have "an affordability target" that would seek to limit the cost of a flood insurance policy to 1 percent of a home's total coverage amount. "
> 
> This is the best part IMO.


I like that part too about 1% but I don't see it in the bill...

Here is the bill. You can check out the summary. Not sure if it includes everything.

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/113/hr3370#summary


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## Profish00 (May 21, 2004)

Public Service Announcement re: Flood Insurance!
H.R. 3370 â€“ The Homeowner Flood Insurance Affordability Act passed Congress last night 306 to 91

* Reinstates Grandfathering - This bill permanently repeals Section 207 of the Biggert-Waters Act, meaning that grandfathering is reinstated. All post-FIRM properties built to code at the time of construction will have protection from rate spikes due to new mapping. The grandfathering stays with the property, not the policy.

* Caps Annual Rate Increases at 15% â€“ This bill decreases FEMAâ€™s authority to raise premiums. Refunds policyholders who purchased pre-FIRM homes after Biggert-Waters (7/6/12) and were subsequently charged higher rates

* Permanently Removes the Sales Trigger â€“ This bill removes the policy sales trigger, which allows a purchaser to take advantage of a phase in. The new purchaser is treated the same as the current property owner.

* Allows for Annual Surcharges - This legislation applies an annual surcharge of $25 for primary residences and $250 for second homes and businesses, until subsidized policies reach full risk rates.

* Funds the Affordability Study and Mandates Completion

* Includes the Home Improvement Threshold - This bill returns the â€œsubstantial improvement thresholdâ€ (i.e. renovations and remodeling) to the historic 50% of a structureâ€™s fair market value level.

* Additional Policies Included: This legislation includes several other provisions including preserving the basement exception, allowing for payments to be made in monthly installments, and reimbursing policy holders for successful map appeals


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## monkeyman1 (Dec 30, 2007)

Sounds fair. Thanks for the info.


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## bcoastal (Aug 8, 2012)

Profish00 said:


> Public Service Announcement re: Flood Insurance!
> H.R. 3370 â€" The Homeowner Flood Insurance Affordability Act passed Congress last night 306 to 91
> 
> * Reinstates Grandfathering - This bill permanently repeals Section 207 of the Biggert-Waters Act, meaning that grandfathering is reinstated. All post-FIRM properties built to code at the time of construction will have protection from rate spikes due to new mapping. The grandfathering stays with the property, not the policy.
> ...


Where are you getting this information?


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## Profish00 (May 21, 2004)

bcoastal said:


> Where are you getting this information?


Email from my brothers girlfriend.


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## jeff.w (Jan 22, 2006)

If you like your insurance, you can keep your insurance.


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## ChuChu (Jan 23, 2010)

http://farenthold.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=371836


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## Gottagofishin (Dec 17, 2005)

I'll be interested to see how the high deductible options will affect rates. I do agree that eventually we need to get to fair market rates based on actual risk. 

Good new though as this needs to be phased in to allow markets time to adjust.


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## capt. david (Dec 29, 2004)

They should do away with grandfathering.


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## jeffm66 (Sep 14, 2010)

We bought our house right after Ike and from what I could tell no water got inside. I paid cash and bought flood insurance for the first year I had the house for $1800 then dropped it. I got a new quote today for $100k building and $50k contents with $5k deductible on each with a -2 elevation difference for $5150. This is my residence.


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## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

jeffm66 said:


> We bought our house right after Ike and from what I could tell no water got inside. I paid cash and bought flood insurance for the first year I had the house for $1800 then dropped it. I got a new quote today for $100k building and $50k contents with $5k deductible on each with a -2 elevation difference for $5150. This is my residence.


Was it the -2 elevation that made the premium so high or because it was a new policy vs renewal?


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## jeffm66 (Sep 14, 2010)

not sure, just got the email when I got home, I am going to call them back tomorrow.


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## day18 (Dec 1, 2005)

So here is a question. If I have property by the coast but haven't built yet. If I am building say a barndominium and only get the shell done before the new maps are in place would I still be grandfathered in?


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## Shredded Evidence (Jun 25, 2007)

So a question on flood insurance: our house is elevated 11' and open underneath. If we flood and there is a mobile home that washes through our yard and takes out our house is that part of flood? Or would that be windstorm, regular homeowner's? 

I read the flood policy but did not see anything on this.


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## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

Heber Taylor has an interesting editorial on this subject in the morning paper.

Copyright owned by www.galvnews.com



> *A good bill, but not a real solution to flood insurance*
> 
> * By HEBER TAYLOR | Posted: Thursday, March 6, 2014 12:00 am *
> Residents of the coast are celebrating the passage of a bill that undoes much of the damage of the Biggert-Waters Act.
> ...


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## Jamaica Cove (Apr 2, 2008)

Herb was dead on in his article. Sadly, if something isn't done to fix the NFIP premium issue/revised BFE issue, the economy will be very adversely affected and until that happens, our Gummint won't do anything until we all see the suffering/results and then it will be too late for hundreds of thousands of people along the coats the RELIED on the Gummint's word to supply affordable flood insurance.


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## poppadawg (Aug 10, 2007)

Interesting situation. There is a strong tea party contingent along the coast. I am assuming the tea party is against any type of subsidy? 
Either way I feel for you folks.


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## Ernest (May 21, 2004)

I'm not understanding how the increased costs of the flood insurance would not be passed on to the consumers of the goods that are produced on the Gulf Coast. 

If the new increased costs are a barrier to employment, the wage rate will have to increase, and the shareholders and/or consumers of the products will bear the costs. Other employees will simply live on higher ground and commute. Thus, the idea that the expenses could "be contained on the coast" is a fundamentally flawed premise. 

We have subsidized these folks for years. Decades even. This subsidy encouraged risky development. And now some are claiming an entitlement to continued subsidies and the elimination of the subsidies is somehow an emergency? What? Taking away someone's free lunch is not an emergency. 

As I have said for years, purported "conservatives" whine about redistribution of income and government entitlements right up until someone tries to reduce their subsidies, welfare, or entitlements. Then, they start in with the "this is not fair." 

Since when is paying your own way "not fair?" Paying your own way is the definition of fair. 

I feel for these people, but empathy has its limits. One such limit is when you start demanding the government reach into my pocket and take my money.


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## capt. david (Dec 29, 2004)

Those of us that have carried flood insurance have paid. The problem arose when FEMA decided to give those that didn't carry insurance $$$ to fix their homes when something happened. FEMA broke the system themselves. Those of us with insurance after IKE mostly got screwed by FEMA. Those without got the $$$.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

capt. david said:


> Those of us that have carried flood insurance have paid. The problem arose when FEMA decided to give those that didn't carry insurance $$$ to fix their homes when something happened. FEMA broke the system themselves. Those of us with insurance after IKE mostly got screwed by FEMA. Those without got the $$$.


X2
I would pay hi prices for flood if I took it. I dont because it really doesent pay for much damage. Only way it would be of any benefit If we had a 20 foot surge then it may pay. Why pay 3,000 for flood when they only pay less than $1,000 in coverage which is less than the deductable. As above its the "give away" attitude of our government giving big monies to folks who do not pay flood and never intend to. Until that is fixed its always going to be bad

Saying that the "pre firm" grandfathered issues must be addressed. You mite check the insurance rates for those houses and how many times big bucks have been paid to pre firm locations.


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## Ernest (May 21, 2004)

No, that's the self serving cover story. 

If the premium does not reflect the true risk, there is a subsidy. Hard stop. 

If the insurer pays inflated claims, that still does not change the basic fact that the premium does not reflect the true risk for the coverage. 

Further, the fact that FEMA gave away money, SS gave away money, Medicare gave away money, or we send government aid to Israel or Egypt does not change the reality. The premiums don't reflect the true risk. 

I don't intend to be mean, but listen to this nonsense. You guys sound like a bunch of gimmedats. "Oh, you can't cut food stamps because there is excessive spending on defense." Whether food stamps or the subsidy of flood insurance premiums should be eliminated has nothing to do with defense spending or FEMA's other uses of funds. 

Sure, you can PC it up and pretend otherwise. But, that don't change the reality here. 

If you don't think there is a huge subsidy for some of these home owners, just buy private flood insurance. You will quickly learn that no private insurer will touch the risk for anything close to the subsidized rates available from the government. Grandfathering? See if a private insurer will accept the risk of loss but reduce your premium because it was build to code 3 decades ago. Good luck with that.


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## capt. david (Dec 29, 2004)

Sound like you Ernest maybe getting GOVT handouts!! Sorry if money is earmarked for a certain program don't give it to something else! That's called bad Budgeting!! It has been how long between storms? Where did all the money go that was paid by those insured for how many years? ****** me off when I do my taxes knowing that those that make very little get lots of money back while I just try to break even. The whole system is flawed, on both ends!!!


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## Ernest (May 21, 2004)

Yeah, thats the ticket. I'm the one getting subsidies. The guy suggesting the elimination of handouts is the guy receiving the subsidies or handouts. That's it exactly. Great thinking there. 

If you are frustrated because the system is broken, just think how all of us that don't receive subsidies feel about this system. I pay the same taxes as you, and I too watch government money being wasted on stupid stuff. But, I don't get the subsidies on my flood insurance. 

If you think the "pre-reform" premiums are adequate for the risk of loss, form an insurance company, back it with your money, collect the premiums and pay the claims. You will be a billionaire if you are right. I think you are completely wrong and will lose it all, but you are free to put your money where your mouth is on this one.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

There are folks who may be getting subsidies and certainly needs to be addressed. Pre firm homes. Just check how much monies have been spent on these areas. Again and again. 

Now for someone like me Ernest. My flood insurance premium (if I took it) would be about $4,000 per year which includes about $5,000 deductable NFIP pays for some downstairs damage such as light switches, plugs and maybe a refigerator or freezer and maybe contents. Total is less that the deducts. Now if we have a 20 ft tide maybe NFIP will pay. Lets pray that doesent happen and its a very low % that it ever will. I often wonder who is enjoying the fruits of my insurance premiums (when I paid it) and it is also manditory if you have a mortgage. I saved money by not having flood insurance after Ike.


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## bcoastal (Aug 8, 2012)

Ernest said:


> If you think the "pre-reform" premiums are adequate for the risk of loss, form an insurance company, back it with your money, collect the premiums and pay the claims. You will be a billionaire if you are right. I think you are completely wrong and will lose it all, but you are free to put your money where your mouth is on this one.


Just so you know there are private flood insurance companies and their rates are lower than the new ones proposed by BW. They stand to make a lot of money if BW's rates do not change.

I am pre-firm. My house has flooded once (Since 1968), during IKE and the payout was 30k. I pay 1.5k a year with a 10k deductable. Once the new flood maps are inacted my premiums will jump to 10k a year with a 10k premium and maybe even higher. My coverage is for 150k.... Now I'm no business man but you can easily graph that one out and see a low risk for some big gains.

We are experiencing a swing from extreme low premiums to extreme high. I disagree with both and believe that we will find a middle ground.


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## Ernest (May 21, 2004)

Of course there are companies writing private coverage. An affiliate of my wife's company is in that market. 

But look at the risks they are underwriting. The underwriting requirements tend to exclude many of the properties that are receiving the large subsidies or "grandfathering" exceptions. 

Of course these private insurers stand to make money. They will insure a relatively narrow pool of risk at premiums that reflect the real risk of loss. But, that's not what we are talking about here. 

Charlie - your premiums were spent covering your risk AND paying for high risk properties and those properties that have flooded repeatedly. Repetitive loss properties account for a small fraction of the policies, but a huge portion of the claims. Because they flood, over and over. In the future, they are likely to flood even more.


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## bluefin (Aug 16, 2005)

Ernest said:


> Repetitive loss properties account for a small fraction of the policies, but a huge portion of the claims. Because they flood, over and over. In the future, they are likely to flood even more.


I haven't followed this whole thread but wasn't our gov. essentially buying those properties with repeat floods? I thought they were writing checks only if they got the deed to go with those repeaters.


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## Ernest (May 21, 2004)

The question was what happened to the premiums he paid for the years he had flood insurance. Thus, his question was not about current practices, but as I understood it, historic ones. Historically, the claims were paid over and over. If fact, for the severe rep. loss program (now modified), you had to have 4 claims.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

hey E

Since you may have some connection with insurance people you may have the connection on the amount of flood insurance monies that were paid to folks who do not pay flood insurance. If you ran your business like that you would be broke too.


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## smokinguntoo (Mar 28, 2012)

Ernest said:


> The question was what happened to the premiums he paid for the years he had flood insurance. Thus, his question was not about current practices, but as I understood it, historic ones. Historically, the claims were paid over and over. If fact, for the severe rep. loss program (now modified), you had to have 4 claims.


I had a home in Woodland Trails West. it flooded one time during Alison when White Oak Bayou nearby got 28 in. of rain in one day. HCFCD bought it last year after they had bought the ones that flooded more often. It was a fair deal. That entire section was purchased in an on again off again buyout plan. Yes I had flood insurance. Loss was about $30K at the time.

SG2


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## FISH ON (May 22, 2004)

Hey Ernest I am at my beach house I see two very nice houses down the street that are for sale get you one and then you can get even.


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## Big Willy (Jun 20, 2007)

Well, hopefully this whole flood insurance problem will be a thing of the past for me. Have another contact in on our house, first fell through because of flood insurance cost, and I agreed to pay their first years flood insurance to help offset the cost. They agreed to the terms and now we close mid April. Gonna be an extra $3000 for the flood plus I still have to pay commission and all closing costs but I want to get out of this house and get our money for a down payment on our next home. Getting a little further away from the water and don't have any flood insurance to worry about!!


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