# Microwave or Fuji SIC



## Totally Tuna (Apr 13, 2006)

I've been reading up on top end components and for guide recommendations I mainly see people pushing for SIC guides. What is the real world advantage of SIC. I really like the idea of the Microwave stripper, but I've only found microwave guides as a package. My guess is there really isn't much of a downgrade in the materials they use versus the Fuji SIC, but I honestly don't know. Building on a Batson RX8 XP904 for casting reel. Suggestions please.


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## Goags (May 28, 2004)

Are you asking about the frame material , the guide's ceramic inserts, or the benefits of microwave guides for a bcasting set up?


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## Totally Tuna (Apr 13, 2006)

I'm pretty ignorant on all that. Most posts I see here don't go into differences. I know that SIC refers to the Insert material. I am looking for top quality and if that means better frame material/insert or design that is what I'm looking for. 

I think I want to try the Microwave design, but if there is a set of guides that are superior in the way they are made or the materials they are made of to the Microwave ones, then I'd rather have that.


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## Goags (May 28, 2004)

Just my opinion: If you're looking for top quality, it's hard to get better than Fuji. I've used a bunch of the Microwave/Tidalwave sets, but for spinning. I'm less convinced of the benefit for Bcasting. If I were building on the RX8 XP904, Bcasting, and costs weren't an issue, I'd use Fuji titanium SICS, but I mostly use Fuji Alconite/blk SS...the alconite handles braid and the blk SS frames do fine, if you wash them off after salt use. Not dissing AmTak and their guides, as they've worked hard to improve, but IMO, Fuji is still the standard.


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## Totally Tuna (Apr 13, 2006)

Thanks, That is the type of information I need. I think I'm going to spring for Titanium.


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## cfulbright (Jun 24, 2009)

I agree Fuji Ti SIC or Torzite are the best.

The only real advantage in the casting Microwave, is the height of the micro guide insert. It keeps your line inline with the reel and off the blank/or engages the blank when fighting a fish. There is no real reason for the extra #10 insert, other then looks. 


I wish Fuji would come out with a tall sic Ti micro for the stripper.


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## wild man (Apr 17, 2014)

Micro waves have upper grade ceramic ring like sic. use the micros for a casting rod. They take the microwave out of the line as it goes down the rod. When u look at the reel when u cast it look at the line coming off the spool, it's going back and forth at a high rate of speed. This causes a loop coming out of the reel between the levelwind guide and the back guide which in turns cause a microwave through the guides. The micros straightens the line through the guides which let u have better cast control. I have micros on one my and I like it so much, I had to learn how to make a make shift micros for the rest of my rods.


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## Swampland (Mar 25, 2008)

There's no loop coming out from a bait casting reel.


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## wild man (Apr 17, 2014)

Swampland said:


> There's no loop coming out from a bait casting reel.


If there is no loop why is there cast control knob on a reel and also learn to cast faster than a turtle and u will definitly see a loop between the reel and the stripper.


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## bowhunter29 (Jul 25, 2011)

For a casting rod, consider a simple spiral if you are looking for top performance. A simple spiral allows you to use fewer guides than a conventional build. Fewer guides means less weight which give better performance (i.e. more sensitivity and better distance). I use one guide per foot of rod plus one. On a seven footer, I use 8 guides, not including the bumper guide. Some guys hate spirals, it's a matter of personal preference.

Here's how I set mine up, you may find something else fits your preferences. 
Butt guide: size 6 double foot (Fuji K frame)
Bumper and 2nd guides: size 5 double foot (Fuji K frame)
Runners to tip: size 4 single foot micros (Fuji BLAG or CLAG)

There are several builders that use all micros on a conventional build and have no issues. Line comes straight off of a baitcaster so you have no loop to deal with like on a spinning reel. 

If you go to micros, frame and insert material make a very small difference compared to bigger double-foot guides. If you're looking for the best and most expensive, go titanium frame and SiC or Torzite inserts.

I see no advantage in using Microwaves, casting or spinning. A good NGC/27X setup will perform just as good if not better.

jeremy


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## cfulbright (Jun 24, 2009)

wild man said:


> If there is no loop why is there cast control knob on a reel and also learn to cast faster than a turtle and u will definitly see a loop between the reel and the stripper.


 Wow you come up with some crazy $h1t! :texasflag

Cast control is for backlash. You ever fished a baitcaster??? There may be a little "wave" that happens from the paw to stripper, but no loops.


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## wild man (Apr 17, 2014)

cfulbright said:


> Wow you come up with some crazy $h1t! :texasflag
> 
> Cast control is for backlash. You ever fished a baitcaster??? There may be a little "wave" that happens from the paw to stripper, but no loops.


I'm sorry that loop was confusing, but let say a half a loop is what I meant for a microwave.


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## wild man (Apr 17, 2014)

cfulbright said:


> Wow you come up with some crazy $h1t! :texasflag
> 
> Cast control is for backlash. You ever fished a baitcaster??? There may be a little "wave" that happens from the paw to stripper, but no loops.


Hey mister rod and reel if u want to come up to my shop in lumberton I will give u some casting lesson if u can put on my *** I will never post on hear again.


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## patfatdaddy (May 29, 2004)

wild man said:


> Hey mister rod and reel if u want to come up to my shop in lumberton I will give u some casting lesson if u can put on my *** I will never post on hear again.


You just can't get along can you. Give a little rspect and you will get a little.
pat


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## cfulbright (Jun 24, 2009)

wild man said:


> Hey mister rod and reel if u want to come up to my shop in lumberton I will give u some casting lesson if u can put on my *** I will never post on hear again.


Im sure you can sling a surf rod a 1000 yard into the billion acre gulf of Mexico. When you can knock a turtle off a log at 50 yards we will talk. :brew2:

I may not have been building rod very long, but I have been studying rods, and reels for a long. I live on a 15acre lake so about 5 days a week I am testing something... in the real world.


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## johnmyjohn (Aug 6, 2006)

This is my thought on micro wave eyes. I believe they are useless on a bait caster. if anything you have to watch how small an eye you use for the stripper. Depending on how wide the spool on the reel is it can affect the line stacking on it. As far as microwave on a spinner i haven't used the name brand so i can make a remark on facts. I will remark on using micro sets or smaller eyes which I use and fish with. They're great for braid but not so much for mono. Braid has no memory hardly and comes right off the spool, mono loops off big time. On a spinner I see the advertising pictures where micro wave type eyes cut the loop of on the stripper and its flat line afterwards on the rest of the eyes. On the standard large eyes you see all kinds of loop movement thru out the eyes to the tip but eventually straightens out. I may be off base but I remember this guy named Einstein saying something about action. The resistance on the line being straightened out in one eye or several will be the same, unless its braid but mono seems to be whats in the pics. Is seeing these pictures giving everyone that uses them a placebo effect? i have the thoughts but not the physics to back these things out. I have been wrong once and that was when I doubted myself,,,, make that twice ''another doubt''. Take it easy on me guys, Im sensitive


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## jaycook (Sep 13, 2007)

I've been quite on my thoughts on the microwave guides so far. But John is 100% correct. If they "work" for you, then by all means use them. But, I can't get past those pesky little things called "laws of physics". You know, the whole creating or destroying energy thing? There is a certain amount of energy that is taken out of the line to straighten in out for the running guides. It doesn't matter if you do it all in the microwave stripper (which is actually two guides) or spread out between two or three normal type guides. If somebody can explain how one choked down double guide can tame the line while taking less energy out of the line and allowing farther casts, I'll eat my hat. Is it really better that the guides are a few millimeters apart rather than being seven or eight inches? 

I can't see any benefit to using that setup on spinning or casting. I am a firm believer in the Fuji KR concept. You can really fine tune a guide train to fit the reel you intend on using. 

Now, if you are concerned about the microwave in the line of a bait caster, you can use the microwave guide, or go Frankenstein and jam two guides together. If that's not enough, you can spiral wrap the guides and take the rest of the microwave out. If that's not enough, spiral to the left, and rotate all the way around the blank and back to the top. If that still doesn't do it, try golf.


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## wild man (Apr 17, 2014)

patfatdaddy said:


> you just can't get along can you. Give a little rspect and you will get a little.
> Pat


 he said i come up with some crazy ****!! Why do i want to get along with anybody who constantly wantS to say im full of. All i know is that that person who says that i come up with some crazy **** only lives 8 miles from me but will not ever come to my shop with his rod and reel. U know he come to my shop he just might learn something. All he want to do is sit on this site and cry cry cry. U talk to me about getting along. I cant post pics on hear, it seems that i can speak ur the one that told me this.


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## patfatdaddy (May 29, 2004)

wild man said:


> he said i come up with some crazy ****!! Why do i want to get along with anybody who constantly wantS to say im full of. All i know is that that person who says that i come up with some crazy **** only lives 8 miles from me but will not ever come to my shop with his rod and reel. U know he come to my shop he just might learn something. All he want to do is sit on this site and cry cry cry. U talk to me about getting along. I cant post pics on hear, it seems that i can speak ur the one that told me this.


I didn't know ya'll had history. I don't know him. I hope you stay on this site, sometime I learn stuff from you.
Pat


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## Wafflejaw (Jun 15, 2010)

Microwave slow motion...(Spinning)





Fuji KR slow motion (spinning and casting) 





Enjoy.


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## wild man (Apr 17, 2014)

patfatdaddy said:


> I didn't know ya'll had history. I don't know him. I hope you stay on this site, sometime I learn stuff from you.
> Pat


i dont know him he just started jumping on me. just like jay cook he just lives 15 miles from me start this read then he contradict everything i say. he has never built a fishing rod, he build deadstixs, rods of art not for fishing so what wood he know about guides or anything thing about making fishing rods. there is whole lot of people fishing my rod in this area. i have a good custom who i built rods 15 years ago for in the last three years i built him a seven foot trout rod with straight up guides. the next rod is the one thats posted is in the blue it is a six foot six rod, on this rod i put the make shift microwave rear stripper guide which he though it was odd. after he fished and i went into his shop he said he could not believe in the casting of the rod with that microwave guide so now i have to change the guide on the seven foot rod. this man owns a boat dealer ship and fishes all the time.


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## Hotrod91 (May 8, 2014)

Caught this 42" drum on a quality tackle rod by Wild Man with spiral guides


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## Totally Tuna (Apr 13, 2006)

Interesting discussion. Thanks for the back and forth it has taught me some things. My only reason for the question was to increase my knowledge before deciding on a guide set up on a new build. I'm going with Fuji Ti SIC guides and a spiral wrap. Size 10/8/5's to the tip.

The discussion got me to thinking about an upcoming Spinning outfit. It seems to me that many think the spiral wrap on a casting set up takes out whatever wave may be present. Wouldn't it make sense that in a spinning set up you could take the second eye and turn it 60-90 degrees and the third back to bottom and have the wave taken out as well. I think it could work better than the Fuji concept video that was posted earlier in this thread. Just thinking out loud so please don't turn on me the way you all have turned on each other.


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## jaycook (Sep 13, 2007)

I apologize for high jacking your post. I didn't think about it when I commented do I went back to my own post after that. I don't like to muddy up an honest question. I'm under the impression that only one person feels that a spiral wrap takes the wave out. Anything I have said was dripping with sarcasm. What you are planning on this build sounds fine. But the spinning setup you mention might be a little radical. I can't say that it would not work because I have never tried that. And I doubt it has occurred to anybody to try. My guess is that it's not the most efficient guide train you could use. There's an easy way to try it, tape the guides on the way Fuji recommends and then modify how ever you like. Take plenty of test cast to convince yourself if one way is better. And if the second guide kicked out really helps, you will be famous.


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## Totally Tuna (Apr 13, 2006)

No problem. I wasn't going to try the spinning set up, was just feeding the fire. It was a legitimate thought though. As I stated earlier, I'm pretty ignorant to the finer touches of a high quality rod. I don't want to pay extra for something that doesn't work. It looks like some of the stuff may work if done exactly correct, but could have no effect if one component is out of place. I didn't mind the back and forth banter either. I like it when someone is passionate about things whether they are right or wrong. We all need convictions and not be easily talked out of what we believe.


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## jaycook (Sep 13, 2007)

I gotcha, I was hoping you were joking. But scared that something I said would mislead somebody haha. I tend to stick close to what the manufacture says to do with components. They spend a lot of time and money to figure out what works best, and why would they mislead anybody? They want you to get the upmost performance out of their product.


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## wild man (Apr 17, 2014)

*Twisted tip*



Hotrod91 said:


> Caught this 42" drum on a quality tackle rod by Wild Man with spiral guides


Twisted tip only happens on a casting rods with the guides on top. A twisted tip is when u have a tip that will twist 180 degree from top both ways. A fish like this will twist the tip out of your rod with the guides on top. With spiral wrapped guides with the tip on bottom will never happen. I had a 9lb bass twist a tip out of a rod before at lake fork. Spiral wrapped is better for catching big fish. To repair a twisted tip is u have to start cutting blank until u get past the twist then stick a new tip on. Hens torc on the blank. My question to u do u tend to catch fish like this if yes u better spiral those guide, because this fish almost pulled the rod out off his Hands and he's a pretty big old boy.


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## wild man (Apr 17, 2014)

*Two manufactures*



jaycook said:


> I gotcha, I was hoping you were joking. But scared that something I said would mislead somebody haha. I tend to stick close to what the manufacture says to do with components. They spend a lot of time and money to figure out what works best, and why would they mislead anybody? They want you to get the upmost performance out of their product.


Fuji and American tackle which one to believe. Fuji sic or American tackle microwave I believe the engineers from american tackle that we have got something new and innovated as a posed to thirty year old technology from Fuji each to his no.


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## cfulbright (Jun 24, 2009)

wild man said:


> Fuji and American tackle which one to believe. Fuji sic or American tackle microwave I believe the engineers from american tackle that we have got something new and innovated as a posed to thirty year old technology from Fuji each to his no.


 See this is what I don't get... your not comparing apples to apples. Fuji has all the experience in the industry we all know that... the KR concept is newer its not 30 years old, and is comparable to AT microwave.


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## cfulbright (Jun 24, 2009)

wild man said:


> i dont know him he just started jumping on me. just like jay cook he just lives 15 miles from me start this read then he contradict everything i say. he has never built a fishing rod, he build deadstixs, rods of art not for fishing so what wood he know about guides or anything thing about making fishing rods. there is whole lot of people fishing my rod in this area. i have a good custom who i built rods 15 years ago for in the last three years i built him a seven foot trout rod with straight up guides. the next rod is the one thats posted is in the blue it is a six foot six rod, on this rod i put the make shift microwave rear stripper guide which he though it was odd. after he fished and i went into his shop he said he could not believe in the casting of the rod with that microwave guide so now i have to change the guide on the seven foot rod. this man owns a boat dealer ship and fishes all the time.


 Just because Jay's craftsmanship and finish work is better then yours, there deadstixs and not for fishing? That's stooping down pretty low there QTrods.


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