# Croaker Bashing



## Mike77015 (Dec 27, 2007)

Ok first let me say I am an artificial lure fisherman. I fish croaker 3 times a year and have done so for about 10 years. One is with my son on his B-Day at his request. One is with my dad's fishing trip because arti's are too hard for him to throw all day, and once with my in-laws for their Fish fry.

Now with that being said, I cannot understand why there are soo many people complaining about limits being caught with croaker and dont understand the real reason. So I will try an attempt to educate some that do not know why it is actually frowned on for fishing with croaker.

The reason croaker fishing is soo effective is due to the trout laying their eggs on the reefs. The croaker will come along and eat the eggs, which will force a strike from a trout "Protecting the eggs". The trout are protective biting rather than feeding. Sorry for the rant guys, but I have seen so many "Bandwagon Fishermen" complaing about Croaker fishing and cannot answer why it is wrong to fish with them. So would'nt it be just as wrong to remove a trout from their eggs with arti's as it would with croaker? Is there a definate way to do a gender selection and safely return the females to the water? Not trying to justify croaker fishing here, just an observation.


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## plgorman (Jan 10, 2008)

I could be wrong but i've heard a few reputable folks tell me that the ol' croaker are trouts worst enemy is 100% false.

I could be wrong though


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## Empty Pockets CC (Feb 18, 2009)

-It is just the numbers of fish that are caught with them that cause anti croaker feelings.

-Also, try lure fishing after croaker soaker season starts. Tougher... 

-Bait vs. artificial...Of course you can catch fish on bait...Most anyone can I guess...Lures is a stiffer challenge and more sporting in my opinion. I'm not that hungry so I'll fish for the sport only and maybe keep some of them to eat that evening or something. I fish a lot though and enjoy catching and releasing on most days.

All in all croaker soaking is legal and the best way to catch trout. It just is not something that turns me on personally. Fish biting a lure that I am working or blowing up on a topwater turns me on. There are different types of fishing and if I'm going to fish I would like to fish in a way that turns me on. 

I would rather sink my money into lures. Just cast and work my lure.

Others would rather sink their money in bait, cast, wait, and haul fish in. If that's what turns you on then do it...


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## Solid Action (May 21, 2004)

plgorman said:


> I could be wrong but i've heard a few reputable folks tell me that the ol' croaker are trouts worst enemy is 100% false.
> 
> I could be wrong though


I have heard this as well. There are a couple of reasons they like to bash croaker fishing.

1) They are just ****** that they can't catch fish on artificials and they think using croakers is equivelant to throwing dynamite out there.
2) They think they catch all of the big fish in a given area. 
3) They think they kill undersized trout that swallow the bait.

Throwing croakers is not like using dynamite. You obviously have to be on the fish and you have to know how to use them. I have challenged "lure" fisherman to throw croakers next to me for a morning. I killed them 10 fish to 1 b/c they didn't know what they were doing.

Croakers will catch good fish no doubt, but I have caught all of my biggest trout on artys, hands down. Whether he was caught on an artificial or a croaker, that fish is just as dead if not released.

I was in Baffin a couple of weeks ago. I caught half my limit on croaker and the other half on artys. I did not have a single undersized fish swallow a croaker hook, but caught a few that did not make it because they inhaled a plastic.

As for me, I throw both. I fish a lot of artificial only tournaments and have fun throwing artys, but it doesn't bother me to soak a croaker whenever I want.


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## El Cazador (Mar 4, 2005)

Next is going to be the fly fisherman saying that their way is the best and everyone else is wrong. To each...his own.


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## Mike77015 (Dec 27, 2007)

I am also very much into arti's. Nothing like a blow up on a topwater or a corky bite. I just will not bash someone for fishing with croaker. I have never understood why people go out of their way to do this. Just this past weekend I had seen someone run up to a boat yelling something at them about using croaker. The guy fishing with the croaker was in a wheelchair, but that didnt stop him from making a few jestures at the passing boater. So for the most part if I see someone at the ramp with a stringer full, I just make the kind jesture "Nice Catch" and move on even if I know they were using croaker.


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## cubanfisher (May 15, 2009)

does anyone know what bait shop usually carries croakers? the only live bait i have ever used is shrimp, and a couple of times i have used some piggies.


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## Mike77015 (Dec 27, 2007)

cubanfisher, What area are you fishing?


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## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

I wish someone made a croaker flag. I'd fly one regardless of what I was fishing with to keep the "Columbia Mafia" from potlickin me h:


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## cubanfisher (May 15, 2009)

Mike77015 said:


> cubanfisher, What area are you fishing?


Galveston beach mostly ... sometimes Rollover and SLP


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## Gilbert (May 25, 2004)

plgorman said:


> I could be wrong but i've heard a few reputable folks tell me that the ol' croaker are trouts worst enemy is 100% false.
> 
> I could be wrong though


I've herd the same thing. Who knows. I do know I'll throw croaker with the best of them. I ain't skeerd.


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## calixtog (May 24, 2006)

I have talked at length with Mark Lingo at Parks and Wildlife about croaker. Croaker are a popular forage in late spring and early summer because of a) their general availability in bay systems; b) fish coming off the winter fast will be looking to ingest the most calories as quickly as possible before and after their spawn, and finfish provide more than crustaceans; c)they tend to aggregate in the same habitat that speckled trout frequent.

Lingo also pointed out that, later in summer and into fall, pinfish become the preferred bait, and mullet in the winter. Ballyhoo and whitebait (menhaden, pilchards, scaled sardines) are very popular from spring through late fall.

There is no evidence that trout attack croaker because the latter eat trout eggs, especially because trout are "pump and dump" spawners (in other words, they lay their eggs and leave them to the fates) rather than bed minders (which is a character trait of freshwater species such as black bass, sunfish--members of the same family, btw--ciclids, and tilapia).

Cg


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## jabx1962 (Nov 9, 2004)

Mike77015 said:


> The reason croaker fishing is soo effective is due to the trout laying their eggs on the reefs. The croaker will come along and eat the eggs, which will force a strike from a trout "Protecting the eggs". The trout are protective biting rather than feeding.


This is not true. Speckled Trout do NOT lay clutches of eggs. They Free Spawn when the water temp reaches a certain temperature and salinity.

Whoever started that Myth had Speckled Trout confused with lake and stream trout.

They just like to eat Croaker.


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## Mike77015 (Dec 27, 2007)

cubanfisher said:


> Galveston beach mostly ... sometimes Rollover and SLP


I don't think those areas would not be any good using croaker. Like I said earlier I only use them 3 times a year, and that is not by my choice. But they are mainly used on the mid-bay reefs. This is the breeding grounds for trout, and that is the problem I have with using croaker. Stingree and Shirleys used to have them. I do not know if they do now since the storm, maybe some else would know. When I do take my trip with them, I get them from Eagle Point.


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## Mike77015 (Dec 27, 2007)

jabx1962 said:


> This is not true. Speckled Trout do NOT lay clutches of eggs. They Free Spawn when the water temp reaches a certain temperature and salinity.
> 
> Whoever started that Myth had Speckled Trout confused with lake and stream trout.
> 
> They just like to eat Croaker.


I cant believe that or you would be able to load up on them all year long, and that is not the case.


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## Timemachine (Nov 25, 2008)

OK, now I'm curious. How do you fish a croaker?. Hook thru the back and freeline or what? I'm not too proud to help my 8 yr old son catch a fish on a croaker, or finger mullet or shrimp. He is a little wild when it come to fishing arties. Fishing ain't about me....it's about "catchin' fish with dad".


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## Mike77015 (Dec 27, 2007)

Timemachine said:


> OK, now I'm curious. How do you fish a croaker?. Hook thru the back and freeline or what? I'm not too proud to help my 8 yr old son catch a fish on a croaker, or finger mullet or shrimp. He is a little wild when it come to fishing arties. Fishing ain't about me....it's about "catchin' fish with dad".


Egg sinker and a croaker hook. Hook em thru the tail. It would be a great way to get your son hooked on fishing, but I would start him on arti's ASAP. Find some birds working and chunk some tails.


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## Stevie_A (Feb 1, 2005)

What I don't understand is why TP&W don't have protection on croakers, like they do with gafftop, sheephead, and even mullet in the fall. Croakers are one of the better eating fish out there.


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## boom! (Jul 10, 2004)

I just like to see people legally catch fish!


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## Yams (Jul 16, 2008)

Mike77015 said:


> I cant believe that or you would be able to load up on them all year long, and that is not the case.


I always thought the reason people dont fish with them year round is because they cant be found as small....as the "croaker" season wears on, the croaker get bigger and move out...the next season starts when the young ones get of age to be used as bait.

Or at least that is how i have understood it. If you wait till november (or so), most croaker are going to be fairly large, not edible by a trout.


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## Hal01 (Jul 18, 2005)

I've never used croaker, but I'm thinking I may give it a try to see what all the fuss is about.


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## Mike77015 (Dec 27, 2007)

calixtog said:


> I have talked at length with Mark Lingo at Parks and Wildlife about croaker. Croaker are a popular forage in late spring and early summer because of a) their general availability in bay systems; b) fish coming off the winter fast will be looking to ingest the most calories as quickly as possible before and after their spawn, and finfish provide more than crustaceans; c)they tend to aggregate in the same habitat that speckled trout frequent.
> 
> Lingo also pointed out that, later in summer and into fall, pinfish become the preferred bait, and mullet in the winter. Ballyhoo and whitebait (menhaden, pilchards, scaled sardines) are very popular from spring through late fall.
> 
> ...


Then if this is true it will even further the point I am trying to make. Why single out "Croaker Soakers", and avoid shrimp, mullet and the various other bait fishermen? Maybe I am wrong about the "protective bite", I have heard this both ways, and the protective bite seems to be the most logical.


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## capt. david (Dec 29, 2004)

i could write a book about all the myths and truths of croaker fishing. why is it that right at the start of croaker season this stuff pops up? nobody starts this stuff during the late winter or spring when the trout are taken by corkys ect... using croaks as a bait is a legal method period. no more discussion!


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## Yams (Jul 16, 2008)

Hal01 said:


> I've never used croaker, but I'm thinking I may give it a try to see what all the fuss is about.


I have honestly never noticed the difference in the few time i have used croaker. If we are on fish, they can be pulled in with arties, croaker, shirmp, etc...croaker didnt seem to work any worse/better.

So i never really understood the big argument here.


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## Mike77015 (Dec 27, 2007)

Hal01 said:


> I've never used croaker, but I'm thinking I may give it a try to see what all the fuss is about.


Well all the fuss is about the amount and the size of the fish you will catch in a much shorter period of time. Most guides like this because that will allow them to run 2 trips a day and possibly get both on large quantity of fish.

Maybe we should run out to a spot find a really good arty bite not on a reef, and then throw a line with a croaker and see what happens.


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## Yams (Jul 16, 2008)

I honestly have always thought the main argument people have is that it isn't as "sporty" to toss a line out with a live bait on it (any live bait) and just sit back and let it work. 

People feel like it cheapens the "sport" of fishing to not actively "fish" your bait (plugs/spoons/plastics).

I dont really care either way. I find it a lot more fun to catch fish on artificials, but i like to drink cold beer too, and its easier to do that soaking bait. All depends on the day for me.


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## boatmanjohn (Mar 18, 2009)

Trout are drawn to croaker because THEY CROAK!!! Piggies can be just as productive as croaker. The way you fish with Croaker is to hook it close to the tail to keep it alive, use NO weight, and give it a little tug every so often to keep it from hiding in the grass and make it croak. I would also like to point out that the "croaker fishing season" is timed with Trout because they just happen to be in sufficient numbers at the same time the Trout fishing is hot. It has nothing to do with Trout "nesting".
Thank you.
That is all.


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## fishingnotcatching (May 30, 2007)

I like to fish arty's about 60% of the time, but generally I do it because I'm too cheap to buy bait.

I have soaked Croaker once, and caught fish - so yes I plan to do it again, and soon. I haven't caught anything worth keeping in a long, long, time, so it's not like I'm depleting the resource. I just wanna catch _something. _

I kinda feel like it's similar to gigging flounder. It's not as sportsman like, but sometimes you want to put at least one fish on the table. Its when people take mass amounts of fish with the "sure fire" methods that bothers me.

I'm not trying to say that using a croaker is as much a "sure fire" method as gigging, or for that matter anything else, but it stands to logic that if you are using an especially effective method to catch, you need to be especially careful about preserving the resource.


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## Mike77015 (Dec 27, 2007)

capt. david said:


> i could write a book about all the myths and truths of croaker fishing. why is it that right at the start of croaker season this stuff pops up? nobody starts this stuff during the late winter or spring when the trout are taken by corkys ect... using croaks as a bait is a legal method period. no more discussion!


Capt david, there has been no bashing in this thread. I dont know if you have read all the post, just discussion of why croaker fishing is bashed, what causes the trout to bite croaker, and various things like that. calm down.


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## capt. david (Dec 29, 2004)

lol i'm calm. many moons ago when bob jr. was doing the outdoor show capt. bill and i had a few dicussions on the use of croaks ect... most of what people think as to why trout bite croaks are myths. croaks are not a majic bait, you have to be on fish, like anything else you throw to catch them. next week i will start soaking croaks until the fall!


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## Shallow Sport68 (Oct 14, 2008)

Uh oh, here we go!.........two large popcorn,jumbo dr.pepper and some of those jelly beans right there.


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## rpduke (May 19, 2005)

Croakers are definitely effective but people make it sound way too easy. Its definitely not 100% guaranteed you'll catch fish with them. You still gotta find the fish, then put bait where the fish are. I have fished with a guide who has said that if you are positioned wrong you won't be on the fish. 

I like throwing arty's more, but am not opposed to soaking some every now and then.


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## Shallow Sport68 (Oct 14, 2008)

fishingnotcatching said:


> I like to fish arty's about 60% of the time, but generally I do it because I'm too cheap to buy bait.
> 
> I have soaked Croaker once, and caught fish - so yes I plan to do it again, and soon. I haven't caught anything worth keeping in a long, long, time, so it's not like I'm depleting the resource. I just wanna catch _something. _
> 
> ...


*** is up with your avatar?....lol!!!!!!


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## Levelwind (Apr 15, 2005)

I think croaker soaking is a great topic! I like to come on 2cool and make disparaging remarks about croaker soakers, make up stuff about release mortality, promote the "egg protection myth", discuss the relative merits of the clown superspook vs the chartreuse and black she dog, and which streamer flys to use on tailing redfish. 

And then, when no one is looking, I get my 6500c and my Ugly Stick and a box full of croakers and go sit on the ship channel and CATCH FISH !!! WOOOHOOO! 

Now some would call this being a hypocrite . . . .


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## Hal01 (Jul 18, 2005)

Shallow Sport68 said:


> Uh oh, here we go!.........two large popcorn,jumbo dr.pepper and some of those jelly beans right there.





Shallow Sport68 said:


> Wow that was the most useless post i've ever heard...


Have you ever thought about actually contributing content?


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## Mojo281 (Sep 7, 2006)

I'm an arties guy but to all is own. 

There has to be some sort of natural correlation between spawning trout and croaker. Try throwing croaker in the fall/winter and see how you fair... If someone wants to claim that you can't find small croaker that time of year, I would bet any amount that you can and will prove it, but the fish just don't attack croaker in the cooler months.

We caught perfect size croaker in this last winter off a dock and one of my buddies didn't get a single bite and I caught a couple solid trout on arties while fishing the same area... Makes no sense unless trout attack croaker for some reason or another during spawn, maybe just the prefered snack...


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## Mike77015 (Dec 27, 2007)

Does anyone have a method of gender selection? I know the old male trout croak, and male trout tend to be smaller. Is there an accurate method to use if I wanted to target male trout while the female are with eggs?


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## Shallow Sport68 (Oct 14, 2008)

Big coakers are great to eat.........


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## galvestontrophyhunter (Jun 25, 2008)

I don't care why they love them. If you know me you know why I use them. I've won 3 boats in the last 5 or so years. My wife won STAR in 2006, 2 Youth scolarships have been claimed in my boat all using those slimmy lil suckers. All I ask is don't take the last dozen. GOOD LUCK


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## Shallow Sport68 (Oct 14, 2008)

Hal01 said:


> Have you ever thought about actually contributing content?


I'll think about it Mr.Pro Staff........:spineyes:


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## LDS (Jul 25, 2007)

Shallow Sport68 said:


> Uh oh, here we go!.........two large popcorn,jumbo dr.pepper and some of those jelly beans right there.


I like croaker threads...


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## Zork (Jan 11, 2006)

Croaker work in the winter. I took 2 guys this winter and 1 was using live shrimp, he caught a small croaker and never heard of using them for bait. I threw it out and bam! Nice trout swallowed it.


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## Shallow Sport68 (Oct 14, 2008)

LDS said:


> I like croaker threads...


Me too,i've never tried them,i may some time this sommer.


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## Hal01 (Jul 18, 2005)

Shallow Sport68 said:


> I'll think about it Mr.Pro Staff........:spineyes:


I didn't think so. Carry on.


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## Shallow Sport68 (Oct 14, 2008)

Hal01 said:


> I didn't think so. Carry on.


Well i thought about it..........and i still thinking .Thanks you for your interest Mr.Pro Staff,have one on me :brew: hwell:


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## TRW (Nov 30, 2006)

I too can tell you croaker are not a magic bait. I throw artie's 99% of the time. I have thrown croaker a few times and had mixed results. We were out in east bay Last week and did just as good on Plastic as the people croaker fishing the same reef. I think a big part of the debate is when you get back to the cleaning table and the people who threw croakers have a box full of fish and you did not fare so well on artie's . If you can't beat them then join them. 

TRW


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## Shallow Sport68 (Oct 14, 2008)

TRW said:


> I too can tell you croaker are not a magic bait. I throw artie's 99% of the time. I have thrown croaker a few times and had mixed results. We were out in east bay Last week and did just as good on Plastic as the people croaker fishing the same reef. I think a big part of the debate is when you get back to the cleaning table and the people who threw croakers have a box full of fish and you did not fare so well on artie's . If you can't beat them then join them.
> 
> TRW


They are hard to keep alive right? and costly?


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## DFoley (Sep 11, 2007)

I use croaker on the weekends when the houston, sa, dallas crowd is all down. I like it cause I can just lounge around the boat and be half asleep and listen to some tunes, instead of standing on the bow of a boat drifting and chunking all day. Usually dont catch much. 

On the weekdays ill chunk lures when no one is around me, its much more productive then.


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## Timemachine (Nov 25, 2008)

Levelwind said:


> I get my 6500c and my Ugly Stick


I got the same rig. Spooled it with #50 PowerPro braid. Gonna get some croakers and rip the lips off of ANYTHING that takes the bait. Gonna watch my kid fowl hook his cousin and watch my wife sunbath on the rear casting deck. She just turned 40 but she's STILL 16 years younger than me!!!

Level wind....once again my friend you have proved that GREAT minds think alike. :cheers:


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## Mike77015 (Dec 27, 2007)

calixtog said:


> I have talked at length with Mark Lingo at Parks and Wildlife about croaker. Croaker are a popular forage in late spring and early summer because of a) their general availability in bay systems; b) fish coming off the winter fast will be looking to ingest the most calories as quickly as possible before and after their spawn, and finfish provide more than crustaceans; c)they tend to aggregate in the same habitat that speckled trout frequent.
> 
> Lingo also pointed out that, later in summer and into fall, pinfish become the preferred bait, and mullet in the winter. Ballyhoo and whitebait (menhaden, pilchards, scaled sardines) are very popular from spring through late fall.
> 
> ...


I have to disagree with the "pump and dump" comment. They will move to an area and stay in that area for a few months spawning numerous times, not just once. Larger ones up to 1,000,000 eggs, and smaller ones 100,000 eggs at a time.


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## cfred (Jun 13, 2004)

I can certainly attest to the fact that Croaker are no magic bait. I have had quite a few trips w/ croaks that I got blanked or caught very few. Would get back to the dock and there would be plenty of people w/ fish. I just wasn't in the right place at the right time, just like when throwing artys. I have also sat on a particular part of a reef and filled a three man limit, while watching other boats less than a hundred yards away catch nothing, the spot on the spot, same as w/ artys. The biggest difference between artys and croaks to me is,,,,,,,,,,,, I can drink beer easier throwing croaks. Not to mention my wife likes to throw them, though she will throw plastic w/ the best of them.


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## Mike77015 (Dec 27, 2007)

Calixtog, Also the bed minders are not just freshwater fish. Look at the hardheads, they will carry there baby hardheads in their mouth for some time. Seen this once many years ago while one of my friends got jabbed by one in the finger. He started shaking his hand around and baby hardheads were flying around everywhere. Caught a couple more behind that and we started looking a little closer at it, and sure enough most of them had little hardheads in their mouths.


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## Levelwind (Apr 15, 2005)

Mike77015 said:


> Calixtog, Also the bed minders are not just freshwater fish. Look at the hardheads, they will carry there baby hardheads in their mouth for some time. Seen this once many years ago while one of my friends got jabbed by one in the finger. He started shaking his hand around and baby hardheads were flying around everywhere. Caught a couple more behind that and we started looking a little closer at it, and sure enough most of them had little hardheads in their mouths.


Don't confuse maternal instincts and cannibalism.


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## YoungGun1 (Jan 8, 2009)

Hal01 said:


> Have you ever thought about actually contributing content?


Hypocritical statement of the week!

I have posted a few discussions on 2Cool and Hal01 always has some smart*** remark! Keep your arrogant comments to yourself!


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## Islander05 (Dec 12, 2004)

Croaker in the right hands can be very effective. Despite popular belief, it's not "trout candy." You still have to locate the fish and present the bait effectively in order to get them to bite.

Did anyone see David Sikes' article two weeks ago??? He went out with us and saw first hand how artificials in the right hands can out-fish croaker! We waded all morning throwing lures catching BIG trout as numerous boats anchored all around us throwing croaker and getting skunked!!! 

Whether fishing with lures or live bait.....one must still put in the time to locate fish, structure, etc.

That's why they call it fishing....not catching!

Good Luck!


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## Timemachine (Nov 25, 2008)

Mike77015 said:


> Caught a couple more behind that and we started looking a little closer at it, and sure enough most of them had little hardheads in their mouths.


Hey don't be messin' with my hardheads.

*"Say Brutha, wat chu gonna do wit dat dair catfish??"*


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## Mike77015 (Dec 27, 2007)

Levelwind said:


> Don't confuse maternal instincts and cannibalism.


Might have been cannibalism, but I have never been that intrested in studying hardheads. Just an observation made once.


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## Shallow Sport68 (Oct 14, 2008)

YoungGun1 said:


> Hypocritical statement of the week!
> 
> I have posted a few discussions on 2Cool and Hal01 always has some smart*** remark! Keep your arrogant comments to yourself!


Hey you better watch it....thats a Pro Staff your talking to.hwell:


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## Mike77015 (Dec 27, 2007)

Timemachine said:


> Hey don't be messin' with my hardheads.
> 
> *"Say Brutha, wat chu gonna do wit dat dair catfish??"*


I have been trying to get the word out that they are the best table fare going just to try and get someone to thin them out.


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## Shallow Sport68 (Oct 14, 2008)

Mike77015 said:


> I have been trying to get the word out that they are the best table fare going just to try and get someone to thin them out.


yup i would have to agree,i have eaten some of the larger ones years ago,very tasty.


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## YoungGun1 (Jan 8, 2009)

Shallow Sport68 said:


> Hey you better watch it....thats a Pro Staff your talking to.hwell:


Thanks for the heads up Shallow Sport! I actually think I saw Hal01 buzzing across the water the other day! He was in a hot pink boat with "I'm a Bad***" on the side! Not to mention he cut my wade off and was burning shorelines all day!

:an6:

This one's for you Hal


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## surfspeck (Jun 7, 2006)

I enjoy fishing period. I like catching fish on all types of artificials and on live bait or dead bait. When the fishing is really good I like to catch fish in as many ways as I can catch em. Ill throw croaker at em and after catching a few on croaker, Ill switch to artificial and if I continue catchin, Ill switch to a different artificial or a different color in the same artificial. If Im fishin strictly for a big trout, Im gonna fish with artificial, probably a corky devil, a topwater of some sort or a soft plastic of some form or fashion. Croakers probably get a bad rap because there are those who see fit and are intent on loading the boat on croakers at every opportunity and unless you are starving to death I really dont understand that mentality or see how that could be very challenging or any fun.


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## Yams (Jul 16, 2008)

I fish solely with a blow gun and poison tipped darts from african frogs. I feel like it is the only real true way to fish. Throwing aritificial lures and plastics is just cheating. You arent a true fisherman until you can sneak up on a school of redfish and start darting those suckers with your poison tipped blow gun darts. 

Im not really going to talk bad about you artificial lure users, but...if you knew what you were doing, youd be using the blow gun like the rest of us.


Just sayin....


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## Shallow Sport68 (Oct 14, 2008)

Yams said:


> I fish solely with a blow gun and poison tipped darts from african frogs. I feel like it is the only real true way to fish. Throwing aritificial lures and plastics is just cheating. You arent a true fisherman until you can sneak up on a school of redfish and start darting those suckers with your poison tipped blow gun darts.
> 
> Im not really going to talk bad about you artificial lure users, but...if you knew what you were doing, youd be using the blow gun like the rest of us.
> 
> Just sayin....


:rotfl:


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## Shallow Sport68 (Oct 14, 2008)

YoungGun1 said:


> Thanks for the heads up Shallow Sport! I actually think I saw Hal01 buzzing across the water the other day! He was in a hot pink boat with "I'm a Bad***" on the side! Not to mention he cut my wade off and was burning shorelines all day!
> 
> :an6:
> 
> This one's for you Hal


Sounds about right.Let me guess,he has a boat that will do 100mph in wet grass and fishes every tournament?


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## Stumpgrinder (Feb 18, 2006)

"croaker bashing"

Don't bash croakers. They will die immediatly if you do.

You are then in possesion of very expensive cut bait.

You boys have fun beatin this long dead horse.


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## donf (Aug 8, 2005)

There's that gay dolphin again.


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## TheSamarai (Jan 20, 2005)

Would you believe we drove my boat 25 miles from lafitte to grand isle last weekend so we can get some croakers to fish with. Once we had the croakers we got back up Barataria Bay and it was on.


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## Porky (Nov 1, 2006)

Croaker,Ballyhoo,Pinfish,Pigfish,Shrimp,Grass Eel,Mantiss Shrimp,Ghost Shrimp,Cut bait let's ban them all and the Lure Companies will be happy, seeing how they are the ones who like to crank up these debates to help line their pockets.


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## saltwatersensations (Aug 30, 2004)

If you dont like croaker dont use them. End of story or it should be anyone. What about horse bashing. The poor old horse takes the same bashing every year. Dont like em dont used them. Whah!whah, whah! Everyone bashes croakers because they work. Isnt any different than live shrimp. Youd fish with a turd if you could catch a fish on it.


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## cruss (Aug 31, 2005)

*crroakers*

I think the negative thinking on croakers arose in the 90's when they were popularized and the guide numbers quadrupled especially in the middle coast. Seems like so many guides popped up for the summertime because of the availibility of croakers. just my .02


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## Shallow Sport68 (Oct 14, 2008)

saltwatersensations said:


> If you dont like croaker dont use them. End of story or it should be anyone. What about horse bashing. The poor old horse takes the same bashing every year. Dont like em dont used them. Whah!whah, whah! Everyone bashes croakers because they work. Isnt any different than live shrimp. Youd fish with a turd if you could catch a fish on it.


lol!!! IT would fall off the hook.


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## DadSaid (Apr 4, 2006)

"mr. pro staff" and a gay dolphin... now thats some funny stuff..


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## Long Pole (Jun 5, 2008)

Yams said:


> I fish solely with a blow gun and poison tipped darts from african frogs. I feel like it is the only real true way to fish. Throwing aritificial lures and plastics is just cheating. You arent a true fisherman until you can sneak up on a school of redfish and start darting those suckers with your poison tipped blow gun darts.
> 
> Im not really going to talk bad about you artificial lure users, but...if you knew what you were doing, youd be using the blow gun like the rest of us.
> 
> Just sayin....


You're cheatin if you have to use poison on the dart....


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## kraymond (Aug 12, 2005)

I wouldn't bash a croaker but sometimes I'll slam a hardhead against something really hard.


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## YoungGun1 (Jan 8, 2009)

Shallow Sport68 said:


> Sounds about right.Let me guess,he has a boat that will do 100mph in wet grass and fishes every tournament?


I think he is actually fishing a walleye tournament this weekend! It is bowfishing only and you have to shoot from a floating refrigerator! I'm thinkin he is going to post some big numbers though...


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## boatmanjohn (Mar 18, 2009)

Here is the environmental issue at hand with croaker...
The demand is very high for croaker so the shrimpers go after them. They scour the bays and catch all they can. A great many of them die before hitting the bait shop. Now the croaker population is declining.

And I don't know why you people reference catching reds like it's hard! I catch reds as easily as hardheads! And big ones at that! Heck, I could go out today and catch 3 limits with my bare hands...even with one tied behind my back!


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## boatmanjohn (Mar 18, 2009)

And let's not forget to throw one of these in there while I'm at it...:an6:


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## Gilbert (May 25, 2004)

boatmanjohn said:


> Here is the environmental issue at hand with croaker...
> The demand is very high for croaker so the shrimpers go after them. They scour the bays and catch all they can. A great many of them die before hitting the bait shop. Now the croaker population is declining.
> 
> And I don't know why you people reference catching reds like it's hard! I catch reds as easily as hardheads! And big ones at that! Heck, I could go out today and catch 3 limits with my bare hands...even with one tied behind my back!


you are just awesome.


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## DFoley (Sep 11, 2007)

boatmanjohn said:


> Here is the environmental issue at hand with croaker...
> The demand is very high for croaker so the shrimpers go after them. They scour the bays and catch all they can. A great many of them die before hitting the bait shop. Now the croaker population is declining.
> 
> And I don't know why you people reference catching reds like it's hard! I catch reds as easily as hardheads! And big ones at that! Heck, I could go out today and catch 3 limits with my bare hands...even with one tied behind my back!


Isnt redfish just a saltwater Carp?? *Hides*


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## calixtog (May 24, 2006)

Trout are not bed-minders. Fish that scour out a nest, lays the eggs, fertilizes them, then guards the nest against predation and makes sure that the eggs remain oxygenated are. Simply because an aggregate of fish stay in one generalized area and spawn repeatedly does not mean the are minding a nest. Trout, in fact, are notoriously cannibalistic (who here HASN'T had a small trout taken off their hook or opened a large trout with a smaller one inside?)

Sea catfish (good ol' hardheads) are mouth-brooders do protect their young by keeping them in their pie holes, but they aren't considered bed-minders, either.

This is all empirically-based, peer-reviewed marine biology that is accepted as fact by the scientific community. Why are you so resistant to accept that?

Bah! I'm going fishing. I might even use croaker.

Or topwaters...

Or Cheetos...

Cg



Mike77015 said:


> Calixtog, Also the bed minders are not just freshwater fish. Look at the hardheads, they will carry there baby hardheads in their mouth for some time. Seen this once many years ago while one of my friends got jabbed by one in the finger. He started shaking his hand around and baby hardheads were flying around everywhere. Caught a couple more behind that and we started looking a little closer at it, and sure enough most of them had little hardheads in their mouths.


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## boatmanjohn (Mar 18, 2009)

I'm gunna try a turd next time I go..fishing. Just for SH*** and giggles. Heck, you never know! I heard about a summer camp back in the day that had an outhouse built on the end of a dock. When a person dropped a load the water would churn...you guessed it. Redfish.


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## Timemachine (Nov 25, 2008)

boatmanjohn said:


> I'm gunna try a turd next time I go..fishing. Just for SH*** and giggles. Heck, you never know! I heard about a summer camp back in the day that had an outhouse built on the end of a dock. When a person dropped a load the water would churn...you guessed it. Redfish.


EWWWWWWW!!!


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## YoungGun1 (Jan 8, 2009)

There was a 30" red caught in Rockport a few weeks ago that had a "personal pleasure device" in its stomach! I have heard of offshore guys using them as *teasers but this just *blew me away! 

(*intentional puns)


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## Shallow Sport68 (Oct 14, 2008)

boatmanjohn said:


> I'm gunna try a turd next time I go..fishing. Just for SH*** and giggles. Heck, you never know! I heard about a summer camp back in the day that had an outhouse built on the end of a dock. When a person dropped a load the water would churn...you guessed it. Redfish.


Are you planning on useing your majone or somebody eles's?....lol put it in the live well.


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## boat (Mar 7, 2005)

What ever happened to the "They never die" Black Salties that were the bait of choice a few years back?


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## netboy (Dec 12, 2006)

calixtog said:


> Trout are not bed-minders. Fish that scour out a nest, lays the eggs, fertilizes them, then guards the nest against predation and makes sure that the eggs remain oxygenated are. Simply because an aggregate of fish stay in one generalized area and spawn repeatedly does not mean the are minding a nest. Trout, in fact, are notoriously cannibalistic (who here HASN'T had a small trout taken off their hook or opened a large trout with a smaller one inside?)
> 
> Cg


I agree with Calixtog on the bed-minding issue. I've never seen any sign of a trout bed in my 50 years of fishing this coast. I've also seen small trout, small reds and black drum in the stomachs of trout I have cleaned.

I tried fishing croakers once and to me it was pretty boring. Yeah, we caught some trout, but we probably averaged about 2 or 3 keepers per dozen croakers (@$7 a dozen). The darn gulls kept getting the croakers in mid air and after that they would die. I just don't like sitting in one place and shaking the rod. But that's just my .02 worth. I don't have any problem with other folks using them.


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## Mike77015 (Dec 27, 2007)

calixtog said:


> Trout are not bed-minders. Fish that scour out a nest, lays the eggs, fertilizes them, then guards the nest against predation and makes sure that the eggs remain oxygenated are. Simply because an aggregate of fish stay in one generalized area and spawn repeatedly does not mean the are minding a nest. Trout, in fact, are notoriously cannibalistic (who here HASN'T had a small trout taken off their hook or opened a large trout with a smaller one inside?)
> 
> Sea catfish (good ol' hardheads) are mouth-brooders do protect their young by keeping them in their pie holes, but they aren't considered bed-minders, either.
> 
> ...


http://research.myfwc.com/features/view_article.asp?id=26483http://www.thefreedictionary.com/untended

Spotted seatrout are multiple spawners, meaning they spawn many times throughout an extended spawning season that usually begins in mid-March and runs through mid-September in Tampa Bay. They are believed to spawn primarily in the estuary that they were born in. In each spawning event or batch, they release hundreds of thousands of untended, pelagic eggs which are approximately one millimeter (mm) in diameter.

Ok I can admit I was wrong. Trout are not bed-minders and lay untended eggs. What I was looking at was that they primarily spawn in the estuary they were born.


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## boatmanjohn (Mar 18, 2009)

Shallow Sport68 said:


> Are you planning on useing your majone or somebody eles's?....lol put it in the live well.


I'll try both fresh and frozen. I'll let you know how it works out!
Maybe even some photos.


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## boatmanjohn (Mar 18, 2009)

netboy said:


> I agree with Calixtog on the bed-minding issue. I've never seen any sign of a trout bed in my 50 years of fishing this coast. I've also seen small trout, small reds and black drum in the stomachs of trout I have cleaned.
> 
> I tried fishing croakers once and to me it was pretty boring. Yeah, we caught some trout, but we probably averaged about 2 or 3 keepers per dozen croakers (@$7 a dozen). The darn gulls kept getting the croakers in mid air and after that they would die. *I just don't like sitting in one place and shaking the rod.* But that's just my .02 worth. I don't have any problem with other folks using them.


It's all good...but really, what's the difference with arty's? OH, BTW...I think catching a seagull is probably more fun than catching a fish! Not that I would do it intentionally, but they are pesky. It's like catching a fish and flying a kite at the same time! Or catching a fish in a 3 dimensional way! It's happened to me twice. Both times the gull was released with only a minor puncture on it's pecker.


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## Third Wave (May 24, 2004)

Croaker Soakers are the Devil.
That's why I use Piggy Perch.


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## netboy (Dec 12, 2006)

boatmanjohn said:


> *It's all good...but really, what's the difference with arty's? *OH, BTW...I think catching a seagull is probably more fun than catching a fish! Not that I would do it intentionally, but they are pesky. It's like catching a fish and flying a kite at the same time! Or catching a fish in a 3 dimensional way! It's happened to me twice. Both times the gull was released with only a minor puncture on it's pecker.


Have you ever had a big trout slam a topwater?


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## boatmanjohn (Mar 18, 2009)

netboy said:


> Have you ever had a big trout slam a topwater?


I have. It's great! I just don't like sitting in one place popping my rod. 

I just like to put fish in the freezer. I throw arty's when the fish are a sure thing or when I'm just playing around. I throw bait when I NEED to catch a fish.


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## Stumpgrinder (Feb 18, 2006)

saltwatersensations said:


> If you dont like croaker dont use them. End of story or it should be anyone. What about horse bashing. The poor old horse takes the same bashing every year. Dont like em dont used them. Whah!whah, whah! Everyone bashes croakers because they work. Isnt any different than live shrimp. Youd fish with a turd if you could catch a fish on it.


How fresh a turd ? I got my standards ya know ? Mans gotta draw a line somewhere.


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## YoungGun1 (Jan 8, 2009)

boatmanjohn said:


> I have. It's great! I just don't like sitting in one place popping my rod.
> 
> I just like to put fish in the freezer. I throw arty's when the fish are a sure thing or when I'm just playing around. *I throw bait when I NEED to catch a fish.*


When do you NEED to catch fish?

Keep in mind there is probably a grocery store around the corner that may alleviate some of your "NEED"! :headknock


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## Rippin_drag (Sep 2, 2008)

4 words for you people. SHUT UP AND FISH.


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## boatmanjohn (Mar 18, 2009)

YoungGun1 said:


> When do you NEED to catch fish?
> 
> Keep in mind there is probably a grocery store around the corner that may alleviate some of your "NEED"! :headknock


Nope. No specks or reds at the grocery store and most of what they have has been frozen. The other part of the NEED is just needing to get out on the water and relax with a fish pulling on the end of my line. Feels good to go home with some grub. Not out there just lookin' for a trophy. I don't hang a cow on the wall, why do it to a fish!


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## fishhunter81 (Apr 15, 2008)

It doesnt matter what you throw. Get up, get out and enloy the sport that we all love to do, no matter how you do it, we all do it to catch fish relax and have a good time. tight lines to all.


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## Shallow Sport68 (Oct 14, 2008)

Stumpgrinder said:


> How fresh a turd ? I got my standards ya know ? Mans gotta draw a line somewhere.


With that Clevland steamer i laid earier i should be able to catch a shark!....hwell: it might still be there if you need?


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## Yams (Jul 16, 2008)

Third Wave said:


> Croaker Soakers are the Devil.
> That's why I use Piggy Perch.


You aint done ****, till you have fished a split rig with a croaker AND a pig...

I know someone who swares this is a sure fire way to fish...looking at his gear one day as he was tying off to our dock, all if it was rigged with split leaders...Im sure this would get the croaker bashers scurry'n around like mad fire ants! lol...

He says the two dont like each other, cause a rukkus in the water, grunting and what not, and attracts the attention of bigger fish.

makes sense to me....I've never tried it, but makes sense...


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## Gluconda (Aug 25, 2005)

Mike77015 said:


> Does anyone have a method of gender selection? I know the old male trout croak, and male trout tend to be smaller. Is there an accurate method to use if I wanted to target male trout while the female are with eggs?


Everyone knows that the female trout is the one with the lipstick! Silly question!


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## DukCutter (Mar 6, 2008)

Uhhh I can't wait for the day when the Croaker debate goes away. Until then (and after) I will still be legally soaking croaker and and standing up for the croaker fisherman's rights! HAHAHAHA. Oh yeah, croaker do not eat trout eggs AT ALL. Huge myth and no scientific fact to prove it that I have ever seen. I fish arties all the time but if i want to soak croaker then I wish i would get left alone for it. Croaker fisherman, how many fish have you killed this year soaking croaker? Or last year? And if you have, how many were undersized and had to be thrown back dead or dying. In the last year I have killed 2 fish soaking croaker, 2! Both were legal size and hit the box. Now I can't tell you how many I have killed on a topwater..... but I guess it was more sporting so that 14.5 inch trout didn't completely die in vain, right? It seems now that most croaker bashing doesn't hold up in an argument so the reasons for the argument are ever evolving. If you want croaker outlawed to protect undersized trout from swallowing the hook and thus being killed, I want all your topwaters to be armed with single barbless hooks. Either way, this whole thing is getting old. Sorry for getting upset about it fellas, I have just being dealing with this same discussion for like 2 weeks now and I am tired.

Conner


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## Shallow Sport68 (Oct 14, 2008)

DukCutter said:


> Uhhh I can't wait for the day when the Croaker debate goes away. Until then (and after) I will still be legally soaking croaker and and standing up for the croaker fisherman's rights! HAHAHAHA. Oh yeah, croaker do not eat trout eggs AT ALL. Huge myth and no scientific fact to prove it that I have ever seen. I fish arties all the time but if i want to soak croaker then I wish i would get left alone for it. Croaker fisherman, how many fish have you killed this year soaking croaker? Or last year? And if you have, how many were undersized and had to be thrown back dead or dying. In the last year I have killed 2 fish soaking croaker, 2! Both were legal size and hit the box. Now I can't tell you how many I have killed on a topwater..... but I guess it was more sporting so that 14.5 inch trout didn't completely die in vain, right? It seems now that most croaker bashing doesn't hold up in an argument so the reasons for the argument are ever evolving. If you want croaker outlawed to protect undersized trout from swallowing the hook and thus being killed, I want all your topwaters to be armed with single barbless hooks. Either way, this whole thing is getting old. Sorry for getting upset about it fellas, I have just being dealing with this same discussion for like 2 weeks now and I am tired.
> 
> Conner


Why are you so upset? it's just a thread on bait.If your tired don't read it anymore.If these guys want to use them or NOT use them and throw plastics or whatever then let them speak their minds the same as you are doing here.No harm.Your to young to get that upset about the little things.Go and hug your young lady and everything will be ok.


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## elpescador073 (Jul 30, 2008)

*Gender and croakers*



Mike77015 said:


> Does anyone have a method of gender selection? I know the old male trout croak, and male trout tend to be smaller. Is there an accurate method to use if I wanted to target male trout while the female are with eggs?


The sure way to tell a male from a female is when you clean em, pull all the guts out if the inside of the stomach is clean its a female and if the lining of the stomach is yellowish brown its a male.

Also your right males do croak. Thats why croaker soaking is effictive, females think males are in the area to spawn and the find a croaker and whens the last time you seen a trout turn down a meal!!


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## calixtog (May 24, 2006)

Females also have longer pec fins. Males have small, rounder fins.

Cg


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## txjustin (Jun 3, 2009)

I've fished with croaker 3 times in the last month and have not even caught an undersized trout yet! I would say that 95% of the trout I am catching are 20"+
BTW, I have been fishing in the Gorda surf and will be there again FRiday morning soakin croaker.:doowapsta


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## railbird (Jan 2, 2009)

*night fishing*

Fishing under the lights is way more detrimental to the trout population than croaker soaking. You have some mut standing on a pier fishing who doesn't know how to remove a hook and he can catch 30-40 per hour. I have seen it in the landcut where you could catch as many as 200 before midnight, and not 1 will be a keeper. They are smaller and get the hook deep often. How many of these fish do you think will die? I would guess a lot more then a few trout caught with a croaker. If you outlaw croaker to protect the trout population, you might as well outlaw night fishing. 
chuck


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## ranger 22 (Sep 17, 2007)

been guiding an throwing croaker for 15 yrs. I've cleaned three trout in 15 yrs that had a croaker in their belly with no hook mark. They do not eat them naturally. It's the noise thing I'm sure of it. Same thing with grunts, they eat the **** outta them to. Fish how you want last time i looked the flag was still red white an blue, free country


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## Texas Roach (May 29, 2009)

I just got off the phone with Dr. Phil he said he would love to get all you guys on the show to work this thing out as long as there no b***h slappin' and hair pullin'! LOL Get over it and lets go fishing!
:texasflag


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## jingvardsen (Jun 12, 2006)

ranger2200 said:


> been guiding an throwing croaker for 15 yrs. I've cleaned three trout in 15 yrs that had a croaker in their belly with no hook mark. They do not eat them naturally. It's the noise thing I'm sure of it. Same thing with grunts, they eat the **** outta them to. Fish how you want last time i looked the flag was still red white an blue, free country


 How do you rig up when fishing with croaker egg sinker or no egg sinker?


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## JLKing (Jul 17, 2008)

Most of the hardcore fishermen I know who complain about croaker soakers do so because they understand that croakers can make up for a lack of fishing skill and account for many more fish at the cleaning tables.

Limits are caught by customers on guide boats who wouldn't have a prayer doing so without the croakers. Croakers fill the customer's freezers and make the guides look like heros without having to work nearly as hard. I'm not saying the guides can't fish, most can. I'm talking about the customer's skill level.

Personally, I won't use them, but I don't have a problem with anyone fishing by legal means and I understand their appeal to novice fishermen and guides.

If the current limits prove to be a problem, then lower the limits. I would love to see a 5 trout limit for the entire coast anyway...

I do miss the days of loading up on eating size croakers though. It's rare to see an eating size one these days.


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## Tslick (Aug 13, 2007)

This cracks me up every year. I'm actually not going to contribute any content to this thread this year, which may upset Hal, but I will guarantee a croaker toss Friday morning with a 6/0 wide gap between the dorsal fin and lateral line on an incoming/outgoing tide with the wind at my back and a cold one at my lips, just as the sun is about to break the horizon. Probably duplicate it again on Saturday, and Sunday also, and maybe Monday too. 

Tight lines boys.


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## boatmanjohn (Mar 18, 2009)

Tslick said:


> This cracks me up every year. I'm actually not going to contribute any content to this thread this year, which may upset Hal, but I will guarantee a croaker toss Friday morning with a 6/0 wide gap between the dorsal fin and lateral line on an incoming/outgoing tide with the wind at my back and a cold one at my lips, just as the sun is about to break the horizon. Probably duplicate it again on Saturday, and Sunday also, and maybe Monday too.
> 
> Tight lines boys.


Personally, I'd go with a 4/0...but that's just me. And I would go under the lateral line, mid-way to the anal fin...stronger tissue. Again...that's just my .02 Good luck out there slick!


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## tailchaser22 (Aug 14, 2005)

This is all I will say. It is not the bait that makes fishing dangerous it is the fisherman. You can do just as much damage to the fish population throwing an artificial as you can a croaker but it is the fishermans mentality and attitude towards conservation that will make the difference. 
If a fisherman judges his day by the weight of his ice chest regardless if he is fishing with plastics, topwaters, corky's or croaker then the damage will be done not due to the bait but due to the mentality of thinking I am not successful unless my ice chest is full. 
Now I am mostly a catch and release fisherman and I have seen the effects of overfishing and in my younger days have been guilty of the same mentality that most of us complain about now and that is keep what you catch regardless. But to discourage an individual from using a particular type of bait or lure is not the answer. I wouldn't want someone telling me that I cannot use a corky in december or january when I find 25" + fish stacked up on a shoreline rather I would like to have someone educate me on the impact I would have on the population and future fishery if I decided to keep everyone that measured 24.9999". I think the just keep five mentality is great and with a growing fishing population and limited resources out there we will probably see this up and down the coast one day and we will realize that 5 fish a person is enough for a healthy meal especially if the average size of your fish is 5" larger. 
So in conclusion instead of argueing about bait and lures lets talk about how to manage a supply with increasing demand like we would any other economic or other situation.


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## txjustin (Jun 3, 2009)

Tslick said:


> This cracks me up every year. I'm actually not going to contribute any content to this thread this year, which may upset Hal, but I will guarantee a croaker toss Friday morning with a 6/0 wide gap between the dorsal fin and lateral line on an incoming/outgoing tide with the wind at my back and a cold one at my lips, just as the sun is about to break the horizon. Probably duplicate it again on Saturday, and Sunday also, and maybe Monday too.
> 
> Tight lines boys.


I like your style. I'll be doing the same tomorrow morning in Gorda! :brew: Here's to ya


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## boatmanjohn (Mar 18, 2009)

tailchaser22 said:


> This is all I will say. It is not the bait that makes fishing dangerous it is the fisherman. You can do just as much damage to the fish population throwing an artificial as you can a croaker but it is the fishermans mentality and attitude towards conservation that will make the difference.
> If a fisherman judges his day by the weight of his ice chest regardless if he is fishing with plastics, topwaters, corky's or croaker then the damage will be done not due to the bait but due to the mentality of thinking I am not successful unless my ice chest is full.
> Now I am mostly a catch and release fisherman and I have seen the effects of overfishing and in my younger days have been guilty of the same mentality that most of us complain about now and that is keep what you catch regardless. But to discourage an individual from using a particular type of bait or lure is not the answer. I wouldn't want someone telling me that I cannot use a corky in december or january when I find 25" + fish stacked up on a shoreline rather I would like to have someone educate me on the impact I would have on the population and future fishery if I decided to keep everyone that measured 24.9999". I think the just keep five mentality is great and with a growing fishing population and limited resources out there we will probably see this up and down the coast one day and we will realize that 5 fish a person is enough for a healthy meal especially if the average size of your fish is 5" larger.
> So in conclusion instead of argueing about bait and lures lets talk about how to manage a supply with increasing demand like we would any other economic or other situation.


While I understand the way you're thinking, and do agree that it is the possession of the fish that damages the population, please allow me to point out that the bag limits are in place for that very reason. TPWD spends vast amounts of money on the research to determine what possession limits the existing population can withstand under the expected fishing pressure and mortality rate. It is very rare that I go out and keep limits of any one species of fish. Maybe 3-4 times per year and I do not believe in keeping more than I will consume.


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## Gilbert (May 25, 2004)

Tslick said:


> This cracks me up every year. I'm actually not going to contribute any content to this thread this year, which may upset Hal, but I will guarantee a croaker toss Friday morning with a 6/0 wide gap between the dorsal fin and lateral line on an incoming/outgoing tide with the wind at my back and a cold one at my lips, just as the sun is about to break the horizon. Probably duplicate it again on Saturday, and Sunday also, and maybe Monday too.
> 
> Tight lines boys.


that trout mount looks like its eating a croaker.


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## trout-thumper (Apr 24, 2008)

simple solution.. if ur scared about trout populations diminishing cause of croaker... do what the LLM did.. cut the trout limit to five.. and the fishing will EXPLODE!! arties or croakers.. to each his own.. fish all taste the same after they hit that deep fryer!!


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## Mike77015 (Dec 27, 2007)

I am not opposed to a 5 fish limit. Normally that is all I will keep anyway.


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## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

JLKing said:


> If the current limits prove to be a problem, then lower the limits. I would love to see a 5 trout limit for the entire coast anyway...
> 
> I do miss the days of loading up on eating size croakers though. It's rare to see an eating size one these days.


So you have had an epiphany since you loaded up on the croakers?


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## YoungGun1 (Jan 8, 2009)

JLKing said:


> Most of the hardcore fishermen I know who complain about croaker soakers do so because they understand that croakers can make up for a lack of fishing skill and account for many more fish at the cleaning tables.
> 
> Limits are caught by customers on guide boats who wouldn't have a prayer doing so without the croakers. Croakers fill the customer's freezers and make the guides look like heros without having to work nearly as hard. I'm not saying the guides can't fish, most can. I'm talking about the customer's skill level.
> 
> ...


x2! Well said JLKing!


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## Shallow Sport68 (Oct 14, 2008)

JLKing said:


> Most of the hardcore fishermen I know who complain about croaker soakers do so because they understand that croakers can make up for a lack of fishing skill and account for many more fish at the cleaning tables.
> 
> Limits are caught by customers on guide boats who wouldn't have a prayer doing so without the croakers. Croakers fill the customer's freezers and make the guides look like heros without having to work nearly as hard. I'm not saying the guides can't fish, most can. I'm talking about the customer's skill level.
> 
> ...


I haven't seen one since my 12yr old cought one a year ago, on a plastic! it was huge!.As i was taking it off the hook,i keep thinking how good she would taste,but we let her go.Nice to see one though, it's been a while.I remember fishing off the peir in Baycliff by the spillway and load up on them man they were good eating.


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## Shallow Sport68 (Oct 14, 2008)

I wouldn't mind a five trout limit myself,all up and down the coast.


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## JLKing (Jul 17, 2008)

Shallow Sport68 said:


> I haven't seen one since my 12yr old cought one a year ago, on a plastic! it was huge!.As i was taking it off the hook,i keep thinking how good she would taste,but we let her go.Nice to see one though, it's been a while.I remember fishing off the peir in Baycliff by the spillway and load up on them man they were good eating.


Yeah, when I was young we used to load up on croakers fishing the edge of the ICW around Freeport. They would save the day back in the 80's when fishing wasn't nearly as good as it is now.

My daughter caught a big one in the canal behind our house last year and that is the only one I've seen since the early 90's.

We fried this one...


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## JLKing (Jul 17, 2008)

Haute Pursuit said:


> So you have had an epiphany since you loaded up on the croakers?


I've never had a problem eating fish. We eat fresh fish in my household several times a week.

The only problem I have is with people who break the law or "cleaning table heros" who waste fish just to get pictures to impress folks.

Fortunately, the vast majority of anglers who have put in enough hours on the water to gain the skill to consistently catch enough for impressive photos gain a respect for the resource along the way. I guess they "grow out of it", so to speak.

Take what you intend eat and leave the rest.


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## boatmanjohn (Mar 18, 2009)

Here's something else to think about... I don't think it will matter a whole lot one way or the other in the near future. It won't be long before they find new toxins that the trout can pass to humans and they put out health notices and ban consumption from more water bodies. That has a pretty effective result on getting people to not keep them.


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## Shallow Sport68 (Oct 14, 2008)

JLKing said:


> I've never had a problem eating fish. We eat fresh fish in my household several times a week.
> 
> The only problem I have is with people who break the law or "cleaning table heros" who waste fish just to get pictures to impress folks.
> 
> ...


I agree,you would be amazed how many fisherman just give their catch away to folks down the street.I know a few that have high end rigs and fish all the time,bring their catch home and it sits in the freezer cause they done eat fish..just thow it out in a year or two....crazy.


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## Rubberback (Sep 9, 2008)

I was brought up throwing arty's from my father & this is what my father told me . He said fishing is a sport so you need to learn how to trick em fool em . To me using bait is not tricking the fish . I believe the way you were brought up is the way you will fish the rest of your fishing life. My son was taught to use artifical lures & thats all he does . I believe if you made it arty's only we would not only help the fish population but treat fishing more as a sport , or a so called art Hope I don't hurt anyones feelings


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## Shallow Sport68 (Oct 14, 2008)

Rubberback said:


> I was brought up throwing arty's from my father & this is what my father told me . He said fishing is a sport so you need to learn how to trick em fool em . To me using bait is not tricking the fish . I believe the way you were brought up is the way you will fish the rest of your fishing life. My son was taught to use artifical lures & thats all he does . I believe if you made it arty's only we would not only help the fish population but treat fishing more as a sport , or a so called art Hope I don't hurt anyones feelings


Didn't hurt mine.Nice way of thinking about it,but fishing is fishing, if a person wants to use bait? so be it,same goes for arties too.I don't use bait,but i will if need be (someone on my boat wanting to use it) i have no problem it's not like useing live bait is a sure thing.If folks want bait it's cool,no sweat,but i prefer Corkies.


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## Empty Pockets CC (Feb 18, 2009)

Rubberback said:


> I was brought up throwing arty's from my father & this is what my father told me . He said fishing is a sport so you need to learn how to trick em fool em . To me using bait is not tricking the fish . I believe the way you were brought up is the way you will fish the rest of your fishing life. My son was taught to use artifical lures & thats all he does . I believe if you made it arty's only we would not only help the fish population but treat fishing more as a sport , or a so called art Hope I don't hurt anyones feelings


Didn't hurt mine either. Good post.


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## Nokillbill (Nov 27, 2006)

ill fish how i want to fish leagly,you fish how you want leagly.and theres very few people out there that i give a rats bohiney what they think of me so no my feeling wernt hurt


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## Gilbert (May 25, 2004)

Rubberback said:


> I was brought up throwing arty's from my father & this is what my father told me . He said fishing is a sport so you need to learn how to trick em fool em . To me using bait is not tricking the fish . I believe the way you were brought up is the way you will fish the rest of your fishing life. My son was taught to use artifical lures & thats all he does . I believe if you made it arty's only we would not only help the fish population but treat fishing more as a sport , or a so called art Hope I don't hurt anyones feelings


no feelings hurt but not everyone was brought up the way you were. I know many ol timers that chunked nothing but bait and passed that on to their kids. I see nothing wrong with either.  I was raised to do both.


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## Levelwind (Apr 15, 2005)

Rubberback said:


> I was brought up throwing arty's from my father & this is what my father told me . He said fishing is a sport so you need to learn how to trick em fool em . To me using bait is not tricking the fish . I believe the way you were brought up is the way you will fish the rest of your fishing life. My son was taught to use artifical lures & thats all he does . I believe if you made it arty's only we would not only help the fish population but treat fishing more as a sport , or a so called art Hope I don't hurt anyones feelings


No hurt feelings here. My dad taught me not to ground rake a covey of quail for the same reason. But we fished for sport AND for a nice stack of filets to eat. We enjoyed fish and lived in the middle of Kansas where, back then, what you could get at the grocery store was frozen fish sticks - maybe. I'm the same way now. Also I fish mostly offshore where bait is the rule and artys the exception. It's whatever blows your dress up.

But here's the other side of the deal. We have a lot of fish on the upper coast right now due to several consecutive winters without killer freezes. We're overdue, and it's coming and when it does it will knock fish pops way down on the upper coast (way down south, maybe not). You can't stockpile trout. They WILL get hammered next serious freeze. If you want to keep ten every time you go, and eat them and enjoy them, no problem here.


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## boatmanjohn (Mar 18, 2009)

Levelwind said:


> No hurt feelings here.
> 
> But here's the other side of the deal. We have a lot of fish on the upper coast right now due to several consecutive winters without killer freezes. We're overdue, and it's coming and when it does it will knock fish pops way down on the upper coast (way down south, maybe not). You can't stockpile trout. They WILL get hammered next serious freeze. If you want to keep ten every time you go, and eat them and enjoy them, no problem here.


I have to agree here. It's only a matter of time before a hard freeze all but wipes out the population. It will do what years of overfishing couldn't accomplish for depleating the populations. As a matter of fact, I challenge anyone out there to post the number of fish actually being caught that are raised in the fish hatcheries. TPWD pumps thousands of fingerlings into the bays to "boost populations". Or so it would seem.

I'll give this post a minute or two for your guesses on the percentage of hatchery fish that are caught then I'll post the number and explain why the fisheries does it.


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## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

I have always assumed that a great percentage of the hatchery fish are basically consumed by larger fish.


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## Shallow Sport68 (Oct 14, 2008)

Oh wait!....i wasn't suposed to contribute....man i'm gonna get Mr. Pro Staff's depends in a knot.


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## boatmanjohn (Mar 18, 2009)

Haute Pursuit said:


> I have always assumed that a great percentage of the hatchery fish are basically consumed by larger fish.


Yes, probably the case. They do at least release them where they would normally live and have some protection...but, you think of the genetics involve, the natural mortality rates from egg stage, basically survival of the fittest and you can see that a large number of them will die, one way or another. The trout and other game-fish that are "born naturally" are essentially the best of the best...or just d**n lucky.

The fisheries continue to work on their hatchery programs for coastal fish as an insurance policy for freeze events.
Are you ready for the numbers?????

about 1%. Yes, one percent.


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## Rubberback (Sep 9, 2008)

boatmanjohn said:


> Yes, probably the case. They do at least release them where they would normally live and have some protection...but, you think of the genetics involve, the natural mortality rates from egg stage, basically survival of the fittest and you can see that a large number of them will die, one way or another. The trout and other game-fish that are "born naturally" are essentially the best of the best...or just d**n lucky.
> 
> The fisheries continue to work on their hatchery programs for coastal fish as an insurance policy for freeze events.
> Are you ready for the numbers?????
> ...


I agree that a freeze will definately damper the trout population but I would also think the more fish we have before the freeze the greater mortality rate or survival rate after the freeze. You say 1 percent survival rate from fish coming from hatchery I was wondering how someone could come up with this # & also what is the percentage for born naturally mortality rate In other words whats the difference Fish love to eat fish Iknow trout are canibals Thanks


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## boatmanjohn (Mar 18, 2009)

The number comes from their genetic studies...I'm guessing when they do the gill-net sampling. I don't know what the natural survival rate is but I will find out. However, this thread will probably be dead by the time I get that number. We'll see.

And yes, the cannibalism is one reason they release them when they do.


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## Friendswoodmatt (Feb 22, 2005)

When I was in Florida, I used to go out in the evenings with a topwater, everyone thought i was crazy but it was fun for me and relaxing. Floridians all sling meat over there or did at the time. That's their prerogative. Watch the Spanish fly sometime, if he isn't throwing a fly, he's chunking bait. 
Over here it is all about arties for most of the guys, sort of a badge of honor.
To me, if I dont catch it on a top or a corky, it isnt worth as much, I can honestly say that I would not mount a 30 if I caught it on meat. But, that's my right.
My personal opinion is that if you want to use croaks/cut ballyhoo/hopamatics-- use 'em. but, if you start slaying them on your bait of choice (any bait real or arty) -- please don't keep catching a releasing when you are past your limit-- especially if they are taking it deep. 
Go and expand your horizons and try and target a different species (reds) , or find new water you haven't fished before. Don't just sit with all the other boats, on Hannah's or the spoil banks and kill trout. Take all you want that are legal, but do not waste a single one of them. You know in your heart when you have enough. 
I don't know many families that can sit down and eat 10 trout if they are decent sized. So it makes sense to me that they shouldn't keep more than a couple of meals. Dont be the neighborhood fish monger. 
Other than that-- throw what you want and when you have enough-- go do something else. If the kids ask you what your doing-- explain it to 'em they will think alot more of you when they get a little older and thank you for teaching them about conservation. They are out there to spend time with you and yes catching fish is fun, but the time is the main deal, let them know it and let them know that if they take care of our resources, they can do the same with friends and with their own families when they get older. Teach them to drive the boat, teach them about birds, tides, shrimp, heck take bread and feed seagulls (rats with wings)


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## JLKing (Jul 17, 2008)

boatmanjohn said:


> The number comes from their genetic studies...I'm guessing when they do the gill-net sampling. I don't know what the natural survival rate is but I will find out. However, this thread will probably be dead by the time I get that number. We'll see.
> 
> And yes, the cannibalism is one reason they release them when they do.


What is your source for this info?


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## JLKing (Jul 17, 2008)

There are 3 of us (me, wife & a 5 year old).

3 lower slot reds or 2 decent trout (2-3lbs) make sa meal for us....


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## sweenyite (Feb 22, 2009)

So trout hang around and guard their eggs?


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## JLKing (Jul 17, 2008)

sweenyite said:


> So trout hang around and guard their eggs?


No.


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## Trouthappy (Jun 12, 2008)

I doubt a single saltwater gamefish builds a nest and guards eggs...
Not in Texas, anyway. Trout, reds, flounder, they all lay eggs that the current wisks away into back bays. Trout certainly don't have a vengeance against croakers. They just home in on that croaking distress call and presto! Free dinner. Croaker soaking isn't very exciting; catching one trout on a topwater plug is infinitely more sporty and exciting. However, lots of people still meat-fish. I saw a guy in a 20-foot Wellcraft a few years ago anchored in the surf, with four small kids on board. They caught and kept about 50 trout on croakers, while 40 yards away we couldn't draw a strike with artificials. It was sickening. Yet, on other days I've had amazing action in the surf while throwing plugs and spoons. (61 reds on one day, 40 trout
and 40 reds on another day. And released every fish).


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## mud minnow n switch blade (Mar 17, 2009)

cubanfisher said:


> does anyone know what bait shop usually carries croakers? the only live bait i have ever used is shrimp, and a couple of times i have used some piggies.


JUST LOOK FOR A YELLOW FLAG FLYING. THEY WORK GREAT IN THE SURF. MY FAMILY GETS A BEACH HOUSE EVERY SUMMER ON BOLIVER FOR A WEEK AND I FISH WITH CROAKER EVERYDAY. I BUY 2 DOZEN AND CATCH MY TROUT LIMIT EVERYTIME. ALSO ABOUT A DOZEN BLACKTIPS 2'-4' LONG. IF YOU GET A COUPLE OF BIG CROAKER WHEN YOU BUY THEM, DON'T THINK THEY ARE TOO BIG AND TURN THEM LOOSE. THE BIGGER THE BETTER!


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## calixtog (May 24, 2006)

Hey man, no need to shout.

Cg



mud minnow n switch blade said:


> JUST LOOK FOR A YELLOW FLAG FLYING. THEY WORK GREAT IN THE SURF. MY FAMILY GETS A BEACH HOUSE EVERY SUMMER ON BOLIVER FOR A WEEK AND I FISH WITH CROAKER EVERYDAY. I BUY 2 DOZEN AND CATCH MY TROUT LIMIT EVERYTIME. ALSO ABOUT A DOZEN BLACKTIPS 2'-4' LONG. IF YOU GET A COUPLE OF BIG CROAKER WHEN YOU BUY THEM, DON'T THINK THEY ARE TOO BIG AND TURN THEM LOOSE. THE BIGGER THE BETTER!


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## mud minnow n switch blade (Mar 17, 2009)

calixtog said:


> Hey man, no need to shout.
> 
> Cg


IF YOU HAVE PROBLEMS READING CAPS THEN MAYBE YOUR TIME WOULD BE BETTER SPENT WITH "HOOKED ON PHONICS"


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