# Orvis Rods???



## Foold'emagin (Apr 8, 2008)

I have had some trouble as of late. I have a huge gift card to Orvis that I received as a wedding gift from the guys I work with. It has been almost 6 months now and I haven't spent a dime. Problem is, I have a T-3 8 wt and a Zero Gravity 6 wt that I use for Saltwater. I was thinking about selling the T-3 and getting an 8 wt Helios. Then Orvis discontinued the T-3 and added the Hydros. The Hydros definately appealed to me because it is hard to justify spending $800 on a rod even if it is a "gift" (maybe that is just me). So I am looking through the new Spring 2010 Orvis magaizine and I notice that a Hydros 8 wt, 4 pc, 9' rod wieghs 3 3/4 ounces. As I flip through I notice the Clearwater 8 wt, 4 pc, 9' rod weighs 3 1/2 ounces. They advertise the Hydros as being the "second lightest rod," behind the Helios, of course. However, it is clearly stated that the Clearwater is lighter, and not just in this one size/weight rod. In most rod classes it is the same way. Check it out for yourself. Can anyone tell me why I should spend $300 more for a rod that apparently isn't the "second lightest rod"? I have grown up using both Orvis and Sage...and I have NO complaints with Orvis. Don't take this the wrong way. I am just trying to figure this one out, and even Orvis customer service couldn't tell me why. In fact, he was just as confused as I was.


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## dsim3240 (Nov 12, 2008)

Who cares if one rod weighs 1/4oz more or less than another . I doudt if you will be abe to tell the difference in weight. Whats important is the action. You need to cast both of them and see which one fits your casting style. I currently have 4 Orvis rods from 4wt to 8wt including the T-3, 4 piece, 8wt. I like all of them. If given the oppertunity I would replace the 8wt with one of the new hydros or the Helios. I find it doesn't fit my improved casting style as well as some of the newer models. The clearwater is too soft for me. I have had my 8wt for about 15 years and still use it regularly. Unfortunately a new rod is not in my budget right know. I hope you find one you like. There is nothing worse than spending "money" on a rod and then deciding you don't like it and it sets in the garage not used.


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## Foold'emagin (Apr 8, 2008)

Thanks for the response. I realize that I won't be able to tell a difference in weight. Your saying it is the action in the rod that is the difference. Then why do they put so much emphasis on "lightest rod?" And, is there so much difference in the action that you can really tell a difference in that? I do need to try them both. Just seems like there are too many options. I could also care less if it looks pretty. I am going to beat the **** out of it anyways. Just want a rod that will cast descent in windy conditions and can withstand my punishment, but also won't break the bank.


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## dsim3240 (Nov 12, 2008)

I expect that the only reason they talk about weight so much is that they don't have anything better to talk about. The differences between the high end rods of different makes is so little that there is not much to talk about. 
I do recommend trying as many different rods as you can, and not just in the parking lot. Fly rods feel different when you are picking up line off water. Then buy the one that cast the best and you can afford. There is a fly fishing festival at Bass Pro shop in Pearland this Saturday, where you should be able to try some different rods and talk to people about them. Everybody has an opinion on the best rods but the best rod for you is the one that you like to cast.
Hope this helps and hope to see you saturday.


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## davidb (May 10, 2006)

Are they both the same 4 piece? Weight is over rated and once you get away from fiberglass they are all pretty light. I like the TFO approach in that they aren't in the graphite modulus race and that a little weight can translate into durability.

Orvis used to be very good about letting you take a loner rod on trial. I have had parking lot wonders turn out to be not right for me when fishing at all. See if you can take both out on the water for a day before you decide.

Other times when my timing was right a tournament type rod seemed great but then I get out on the water and get tired or excited I could hardly get the line out of the boat with the same wonder rod. I have also traded up in rods only to find the old rod was better for me.


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## skidmark (Feb 9, 2010)

Sage rods are better then Orvis.


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## flywader (Jul 5, 2009)

Sage...or Loomis or TFO.

don't waste you time with Whorvis. you're welcome.


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## shallowist (May 28, 2009)

Go up to the store and talkto Marcos, you need to see differences in the rods that don't show up in the catalog. Probably one would be that the guides are different on a saltwater designed rod versus one for fresh water. If you are fishing in salt, don't ever buy a rod without a giant tip guide!! Most people who haven't fished long don't realize this, but hard running saltwater species will take a small tip guide right off of a rod if you have a knot in your fly line. The rods are fantastic at Orvis.

Fifteen years ago, I would have said the same thing as some of the comments above about Orvis, but they have made dramatic improvements in what they build for the saltwarter angler. I have fished both the Helios and the new Hydros, they are both light in hand and have guides that are well suited to fishing saltwater. They offer both series in different flex ranges, so you are more likely to find something that suits your style. 

Here's one of the biggest reasons to buy, they will stand behind any rod that they build. if you are out of town on a fishing trip and damage a rod, it's about 1000 times easier to find an Orvis store, than to find a shop that will let you borrow a rod if you break your Sage or TFO.


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## skidmark (Feb 9, 2010)

It's always a good idea to carry along a back up rod.


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## Boboe (Feb 11, 2009)

You say that you're going to beat up your rod. Avoid the Helios if this is the case. It's a fine rod, but it isn't the finest out there, IMO. It's also very fragile. In order to make such a light rod, they had to make it incredibly thin-walled. They're very susceptible to breaking. If you do end up getting a Helios, plan on at least one weight heavier line or it won't load.

Since you've got all that Orvis Cash, maybe spend it on gear like gear bags, fly boxes, etc. I haven't casted the new Hydros, so I can't comment on it. I like the Orvis TLS Power Matrix MidFlex rods, however. I've fished the 9' 8wt 2 and 4 piece models quite a lot, and think they're pretty good line cannons with both floating lines and heavy sink tips.

Orvis also has a new Battenkill Large Arbor reel coming out soon (if not already). I saw one of the prototype models, but never got to fish it. The old Battenkill LA reels are pretty good, but I wouldn't use them in salt. They're too prone to rust and seizing for it.


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## Boboe (Feb 11, 2009)

You say that you're going to beat up your rod. Avoid the Helios if this is the case. It's a fine rod, but it isn't the finest out there, IMO. It's also very fragile. In order to make such a light rod, they had to make it incredibly thin-walled. They're very susceptible to breaking. If you do end up getting a Helios, plan on at least one weight heavier line or it won't load.

Since you've got all that Orvis Cash, maybe spend it on gear like gear bags, fly boxes, etc. I haven't casted the new Hydros, so I can't comment on it. I like the Orvis TLS Power Matrix MidFlex rods, however. I've fished the 9' 8wt 2 and 4 piece models quite a lot, and think they're pretty good line cannons with both floating lines and heavy sink tips.

Orvis also has a new Battenkill Large Arbor reel coming out soon (if not already). I saw one of the prototype models, but never got to fish it. The old Battenkill LA reels are pretty good, but I wouldn't use them in salt. They're too prone to rust and seizing for it.


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## shallowist (May 28, 2009)

You might look at the mid flex rods that they build if you think that you are not loading the rod well with the matched line weight. Keep in mind, that when a rod company builds a truly fast action rod, they are thinking long casts where an angler would carry longer line when false casting. I have fished the Helios and the Hydros, and didn't see a problem with either. I tend to like very fast rods, and none of them load really well at short distances. You can always trim the front taper back on the line that you use and you will find a huge difference.


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## flywader (Jul 5, 2009)

Boboe said:


> If you do end up getting a Helios, plan on at least one weight heavier line or it won't load.





Boboe said:


> If you do end up getting a Helios, plan on at least one weight heavier line or it won't load.


while i agree with you that there are better rods out there, if you know how to cast right it'll load just fine.



shallowist said:


> You can always trim the front taper back on the line that you use and you will find a huge difference.


not that i'm gonna do it, but tell us more about that... not sure how (or why) you'd do that. enlighten me please.


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## Boboe (Feb 11, 2009)

shallowist said:


> You might look at the mid flex rods that they build if you think that you are not loading the rod well with the matched line weight. Keep in mind, that when a rod company builds a truly fast action rod, they are thinking long casts where an angler would carry longer line when false casting. I have fished the Helios and the Hydros, and didn't see a problem with either. I tend to like very fast rods, and none of them load really well at short distances. You can always trim the front taper back on the line that you use and you will find a huge difference.


You're right about style. I don't like to spend a lot of time false-casting. I'd rather spend time with fly in the water. Therefore if I'm looking to cast for distance, I'll carry roughly 30' of line, get plenty of line speed, and shoot the rest. 3 or 4 false casts max.

I fish weight forward lines and heavy sink tips. There's not much appreciable front taper to trim like on a double-taper.


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## flywader (Jul 5, 2009)

Boboe said:


> 3 or 4 false casts max.


3's too many.


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## skidmark (Feb 9, 2010)

not that i'm gonna do it, but tell us more about that... not sure how (or why) you'd do that. enlighten me please.[/QUOTE]

My cat chewed off the first 18 inches of my buddy's fly line one time. He didn't notice and still doesn't know. Maybe that's what he is talking about.


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## shallowist (May 28, 2009)

Hey guys, if you look at many of the weight forward floating lines manufactured, they all think that fish are very spooky. I have fished some that are way too long on the front taper and just make turning over a big fly in the wind difficult. That also translates to very hard to load the rod at short distances. I'm not talking about much, but I have taken about a foot from an old Cortland line that a friend talked me into buying, and put a loop on the front. That totally changed the feel of the line. 

This isn't something that would apply to the Double taper line, but I don't know very many people that use a DT in salt. I could see where it would come in handy when trying to carry a long line false casting. As for you guys talking about carrying 30 and "shooting the line", I'm intrigued. 

Back to the original question. Do the research, make sure that you pick the Orvis rod that suits you well (everyone is different). If you pick the tip flex, you may have to overline the rod(one size larger than rated) and enjoy. I have fished rods from all the manufacturers above and many more, and have seen some that I liked and others that I didn't. The reasons for not liking were usually flat spots that prevent comfortable casts at certain ranges, and or the guides or guide placement. Bottom line is that most were my personal preferences. And I still bellieve that you will find the return policy with Orvis to be as liberal as there is in the industry today, coupled with the fact that you can find an Orvis shop in virtually every major town around.


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## flywader (Jul 5, 2009)

oh, i thought you were referring to something else. 

just gotta make sure you have a long enough front end on your line before you start trimming stuff back.


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## shallowist (May 28, 2009)

Absolutely, I wouldn't trim a short taper line like the old bonefish or tarpon tapers, but have seen some that I think the front taper is way too long on. People tend to think that you need a long leader to create a subtle presentation. In Galveston, most fish don't seem to care that much about the presentation, and I have found that I can fish leaders as short at 5-7 ft depending on the day and the line that I'm using. If the fish are that spooky, I would much rather change to a smaller fly than extend the leader, especially if it's windy.


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## tail-chaser (May 5, 2007)

skidmark said:


> My cat chewed off the first 18 inches of my buddy's fly line one time. He didn't notice and still doesn't know. Maybe that's what he is talking about.


Your cat is so crazy


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## skidmark (Feb 9, 2010)

You ought to trade that barge in for a propper skiff. That's a chunkermobile.


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## tail-chaser (May 5, 2007)

skidmark said:


> You ought to trade that barge in for a propper skiff. That's a chunkermobile.


I'll take you with me fishing one day, and you won't have to bring your raincoat.


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## dlcole76054 (Feb 8, 2010)

Use the card for your needed "jewelery" and get someone else's rods. Orvis rods are just over-priced. I have a 4wt T-3 and 5wt Zero Gravity (both nice and both discontinued for Helios, etc) TFO was mentioned and are great. Have your thrown the new TFO Clouser rod? It's a Ti-CR with a softer tip to help move those larger flies easier. Comes in 5, 6 & 8wts. Mid-range Sage is outstanding - the Flight is really nice. Like Orvis, the Z-Axis is probably over priced and I can say that because I have 2 z-Axis rods (5 & 8wt).

And, yes, I do work for a fly shop...

Davif


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## ghillhouse (Jan 6, 2008)

My go to rods in 8 wt are a Helios and a Z-axis, both 9 ft. Love them both. My friends who have fished both rods on reds always come away liking the Helios more. 

My recommendation is to get a Hydros, it's the same rod as a Helios, but with lower quality hardware, like they put on my z-axis! 

I have heard that Helios are brittle, and I think that is second-hand BS. If it breaks, so what? Swap it out for a new one. This is funny given all the rod breakage you hear about on the high end locally made casting rods on this forum. I am picky, but I think those two rods, the Helios and Hydros, are the only two Orvis products I would buy right now, but I haven't yet tried a Mirage reel, so who knows.

Good luck.


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## skidmark (Feb 9, 2010)

Orivs? don't waste your time or money. They are for tourist.


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## shallowist (May 28, 2009)

Some amazing expert advice on this site. find a return location for the other rods mentioned here and please let us all know. Fly rod selection most definitely should have everthing to do with personal preference, and considerations that are speciic to an individual. I haven't seen many compain about breakage with Orvis, but again, if you do there is usually a dealer within a reasonable range. I think you could get "monster back for your buck" out of a TFO. I have noticed a decided trend away from the thin wall, ultra high modulus rods popular a few years back. That's a great thing for all of us. I would tolerate an extra ounce, to prevent a day ending breakage. 

I have cast all of the rods that were mentikned in this post, all will cast well if you understand the taper and are a competent caster. Orvis makes sevveral tapers for each series, so you will likely be able to find a rod that suits you in any of the series that they make. If you buy a well suited(to your casting) rod, and aren't careless, you could own it for a lifetime. I have rods that I have owned for over 20 years. Don't be sceered, make your own choice based on your own criteria!


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## skidmark (Feb 9, 2010)

I agree, make your own choice. Just don't buy an Orvis rod.


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## FlySouth (Feb 25, 2009)

Look at all the stuff you could buy at Orvis besides over priced rods!!:


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## Boboe (Feb 11, 2009)

That's a nice Dog Creel.


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## Matthew DeMaet (May 19, 2010)

Hi-larious.:rotfl:


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## beto6059 (Oct 26, 2008)

Orvis is having a special on the rods you want. 
http://www.orvis.com/store/shop.aspx?dir_id=758&shop_id=1446


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