# White Bass Run / The River Or The Creek



## palmettoguideservice (May 13, 2010)

Just thought I would share this article I wrote in regards to spring White Bass Fishing on Livingston​
THE RIVER OR THE CREEK​The only thing that is permanent is change. So goes the challenge of catching spawning White Bass on the upper Trinity River north of Lake Livingston. Constant changes of the ecosystem make catching spawning Whites an annual challenge. Over the last 20 years or so I have witnessed many changes in the White Bass fishing here. Droughts and flash floods have drastically changed many creeks. Constant silting in due to deposits from run off has lowered some creek levels to where they have become inaccessible by boat. Sandbars now appear where creek channels once flowed. Where fish were caught last year may not be the case this year. Anglers have to recognize changing conditions in order to be successful. 
Last year was a dry year with little or no run off from local rains. With no rains to move water down the creeks, White Bass never moved into the creeks. The river channel was low and clear this time last year and was really just a big creek itself. The river channel is where the White Bass spawned last year. The river unloaded some of the best fishing for Whites I have ever seen. Limits of 12 - 15 inch 25 fish per person were common. 
Time changes everything. This year, weather patterns are more typical. The river is flowing full and keeping local run off backing up into the creeks. When the creeks are holding water and are then hit with moving water, this is when you can expect great White Bass fishing in the creeks. This has been the case recently. White Rock, Harmon, Nelson, Bedias and other creeks have been loaded with spawning Whites. 
Fishing the creeks this time of year can be hit or miss. Timing is crucial. Local rains can muddy a creek and wash out a pattern in a matter of hours. I once put a party on 75 White Bass one morning as the creek was swelling from a nights rain. My afternoon party was a washout.
Go up the creeks 24 to 48 hours after a rain and look for clearing water and shad. "Tea-colored" water can be the sign you are looking for. You can see the difference between tea, stained or muddy water as you go up the creek. Start fishing with chartreuse colored baits. As the water clears, use more natural shad pattern baits.
The White Bass fishery on Lake Livingston has had its ups and downs over the years. The last couple of years has seen some great fishing. Anglers that have changed with the conditions have been rewarded with outstanding catches. The creeks or the river, finding the fish is the challenge. Wet years will put the fish in the creeks. Dry years will put the fish in the river. The only thing that is permanent about White Bass fishing is change.
Recognizing the changes in weather patterns from year to year will help you catch more White Bass on Lake Livingston during the spawn whether it be in the river or the creeks.

By Dave Scott Cox
all rights reserved
By Dave Scott Cox


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## Git$um (Feb 11, 2008)

Great article, thanks for sharing this info with us.


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## scstriperhunter (Jan 21, 2013)

Thanks for the post PGS. It was actually a great help in deciding where to try the whites this weekend.


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## Overloaded (Apr 6, 2012)

*Big thanks!*

Thank you to the Internet and all of the ego driven people who find it necessary to brag and boast about when and where they are catching fish. Thanks to this the fishing has diminished over the last five years to almost nothing. Sure there are fish to be caught, but that is only because of all of the yahoo's that are running up and down these very sensitive ecosystems scaring the life out of every creature in them and forcing them to hide. Loose lips are making it very difficult for the guys that actually do the leg work, fish hard, and find their own fish. Not that I don't enjoy watching some idiot smack a stump at WOT but it sure would be nice if the rivers and creeks weren't parking lots every single weekend. I hope that I haven't offended anyone here as I do love this site as much as the rest of you guys and gals, I just wish people would leave some of the "mystery" in fishing. Everyone here wants to see pics of fish and hear fish stories but that doesn't mean you have to BLAST it out to the whole WWW. the exact stump you found them in. Please people have some respect for mother nature and fellow fisherman, leave the juicy details out and enjoy better fishing for yourself and other like fisherman so that we don't have all of the fakes who heard a fish was spawning out there acting like clowns just because someone posted "they were there yesterday".:texasflag


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## Mattsfishin (Aug 23, 2009)

WOW!!!! Thats some first post for some one new on here. Any one that has caught whites in the past few years knows most of the info posted. Sounds to me like someone can"t catch any fish. Maybe some one might hire a guide and it would help them catch fish. Theres whitebass form the south end up to lock and dam this time of the year.


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## Overloaded (Apr 6, 2012)

You are right "anyone who has caught whites in the past few years knows most of the info posted." However this is the internet! Obviously you didn't quite understand the message I was trying to relay. Sorry for the misunderstanding Mattsfishin. I also have no problems catching fish. The guides out there are mostly baby sitters for "POTLICKERS" and transportation for other people who are scared to scratch their pretty new boat.


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## Git$um (Feb 11, 2008)

I think having more people interested in fishing is a good thing. There will be more resources devoted to fishing, more revenue generated for businesses located near lakes and thus more reasons to have lakes. I cant speak for the whole state, but for lake Livingston, the worst decision ever made was the short experiment with a 12 inch size limit to "reduce the pre-spawn catch. there were so many fish in the lake that they were stunted and you had millions of 9 inch fish. Conservation works, preservation doesn't. I think the increased fishing has right sized the hatchery. If fishing is popular, TXPWD will have the funds to keep the lakes stocked resulting in better fishing for all of us. JMHO.


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## Overloaded (Apr 6, 2012)

You do have a valid point. However still missing the message. We shouldn't spoon feed every ounce of info to people who are too lazy to do their own fishing.


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## t_willy (Jan 28, 2010)

Overloaded. I don't understand why you are upset. These creeks that are mentioned are rittled with underwater obstructions. Anyone who is willing to try and navigate these creeks has earned the right to fish them. I did not see anywhere in this article that had stated where the fish are located nor a map of the channels to be able to navigate these creeks. I have run these creeks for most of my life and have still been known to smack a stump or two. Good information from the OP. Tight lines everyone.


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## Mattsfishin (Aug 23, 2009)

wine, wine, wine, somebody get some cheese. I did understand and I have provided info on here and left out details. I don't know if you are a troll or just a young person upset but don't bash the guides. Palmetto put the article on here, you read it now go away. Guides provide a good service to people that want to learn how to fish, want to learn a certain lake, and for those that don't have a boat but would like to fish a few times a year. Fishing is a good sport and when the fish are biting good people come a running. Thanks Palmetto.

Matt

Fish fear me and people talk #### about me!


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## juror81 (Jul 21, 2011)

Thank you Palmetto Guide.


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## jacen (Mar 29, 2012)

If you don't want the crowd then you need to learn to find fish somewhere else if not I guess we will post a gw to make sure not to many people get on the lake when you want to go fishing put you big boy pants on and deal with it.


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## tufffish (May 11, 2006)

one thing i have learned is, when someone makes posts and in there profile there is nothing i don't even figure they are real. if you are to afraid to post where you are from i dont' put any time into helping. i will let people bump into my boat if the have kids fishing with them. if you can teach them how to fish they will learn to find there own fish and not be so anxious. lake livingston has plenty of fish for everyone. a lot of the guides make a living doing this. they are not out there for just the fun of it like most of us. there paycheck comes from this.


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## csmcg (Jan 20, 2008)

Overloaded, the article that Dave Cox posted is a very helpful one to folks that are eager to learn and don't have the experience under their belt. That is the purpose of this forum. This board is also a great resource even to the seasoned fisherman. 

During the whitebass run we have 60+ miles of river to fish between Hwy 19 and hwy 7. There are a dozen or so fishable creeks in same stretch. That's a lot of water and PGS did not give out GPS Coords. So, if you are finding the crowds too much to bear I suggest you move on to the next stretch of water.


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## txteltech (Jul 6, 2012)

*Ty*

Great info thanks I normally only fish salt but I'm going to give fresh a try in the morning


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## Overloaded (Apr 6, 2012)

This should be my last post on the subject. I apologize to palmetto guide service as I was not trying to jack their thread. I also did not say anything in the lines of bashing guides, only that they were baby sitters for spot lickers. I am close personal friends with a few who would agree 100%, just maybe not in public. LOL! Thank you for pointing out that I have not finished my profile I will do so. And last but not least I find it to be hilarious how many computer fisherman were offended by my post that re posted here on such a beautiful day while I was back home catching fish! It was wonderful only crossing paths with two other boats all day.


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## AggieBB (Feb 10, 2013)

Spot lickers. Those anything like window lickers?


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## MT Stringer (May 21, 2004)

That article didn't bother me at all. I have fished up the river off and on a time or two each year since the 80's. It was good to hear how things are going.


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## palmettoguideservice (May 13, 2010)

*Informative and intertaining*

I strive to write articles that are informative and intertaining.
Thanks for all who take the time to read my articles.

See photo of Dr. George Moss and Dr. Casey Clements with a few of their Whites they caught fishing with me recently. It is always great to fish and spend time with Dr. Moss. He loves fishing for Whites in the spawn. We have had many good trips together. Dr. Moss was seriously injured several years ago chasing Whites at the Lock and Dam.


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## gunnut (Aug 3, 2004)

Dave good post, i've passed you a couple of times on the water and quite a few times in the duck blind. You've ALWAYS been courteous and friendly. I'll try to send any buisness your way if possible. Thanks again for the article.


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## palmettoguideservice (May 13, 2010)

*Thanks gunnut / green chunk*

Thanks gunnut and to all for your kind remarks.
Keep your lines tight!!

Check out the photo of the big green chunk I caught recently on a "Charlies June Bug Craw Bug" one of three I caught that day on "Charlies Craw Bugs".


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## Bankin' On It (Feb 14, 2013)

I really appreciate the info OP. I AM new to freshwater fishing. I didn't have anyone to teach this stuff to me when I was a kid. I'm assuming Overload might have been doing this all his life. Good. I'm happy he is good at it. See, I have 2 kids. A boy who is about to turn 5 and a girl who just turned 15. I want to share these things with them. So I am going out and hustling every weekend to find a place to take my kids. I'm studying for hours everyday on techniques, seasons, locations, etc. trying to hit this spring run with my kids. I'm not afraid of boating. I just can't afford one right now. Overload really got under my skin. To throw me and my family into some lower leveled group of people just for trying and using information that folks here are kind enough to supply...well, it just don't sit right. I'd hate to see him on the water and know it was him. Where do you fish Overload (so I can avoid your lake)?


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## workorfish (Sep 5, 2007)

*Thanks PGS*

That cut bank in the background looks real familiar (!!!).
Hopefully Mr. Overloaded has calmed down a bit. I have been fishing the river and feeder creeks for more years than he's been in on this earth. Yes it is more crowded than in 1980 and yes there are more yayhoos on the water (many are skiing or doing something other than fishing) but we deal with it and go on. Since me and about 30 of my closest fishing friends, all who have fished those waters for 30+ yrs, will be up there this weekend, maybe this would be a good time for him to fish somewhere else.


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## Overloaded (Apr 6, 2012)

I'll look forward to seeing all of you! Glad my post seemed to strike so many nerves,people should learn to take things as they are said instead of out of context. Funny to say the least!


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## workorfish (Sep 5, 2007)

*Cool*

So when you see a flotilla of ******** in Harmon, Bedias, Caney, White Rock or in the Trinity, you'll know its us! Or, we may just hang out at that beer joint outside Riverside.....


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## JakeNeil (Nov 10, 2012)

Overloaded said:


> Thank you to the Internet and all of the ego driven people who find it necessary to brag and boast about when and where they are catching fish. Thanks to this the fishing has diminished over the last five years to almost nothing. Sure there are fish to be caught, but that is only because of all of the yahoo's that are running up and down these very sensitive ecosystems scaring the life out of every creature in them and forcing them to hide. Loose lips are making it very difficult for the guys that actually do the leg work, fish hard, and find their own fish. Not that I don't enjoy watching some idiot smack a stump at WOT but it sure would be nice if the rivers and creeks weren't parking lots every single weekend. I hope that I haven't offended anyone here as I do love this site as much as the rest of you guys and gals, I just wish people would leave some of the "mystery" in fishing. Everyone here wants to see pics of fish and hear fish stories but that doesn't mean you have to BLAST it out to the whole WWW. the exact stump you found them in. Please people have some respect for mother nature and fellow fisherman, leave the juicy details out and enjoy better fishing for yourself and other like fisherman so that we don't have all of the fakes who heard a fish was spawning out there acting like clowns just because someone posted "they were there yesterday".:texasflag


I don't understand how you could say that that other posters have taken what you have written out of context. You may not have specifically mentioned the OP, but your post was specifically directed towards the OP's report. So yes, you were offensive and disguised your rudeness by being ambiguous, your plural talk of "everyone" included the original poster and other members who like to teach.

The bag limit is set at 25 White Bass based on the professional opinions of conservationists working for Texas. Also, the more information that people Google and find about fishing the more aware they become about conservation and proper fishing. Decline in fishing is not because people are having "loose lips" as you called it, but because of the uneducated that are keeping undersized or oversized fish. This can and will wreak havoc on fish populations no matter the area.

I have never fished the trinity river and the original post does not give me insider information to make fishing there easier if I ever choose to. It was an informative topic on general patterns and changes that occur yearly because of weather, rainfall; etc. that reshape the geography of the lake/creek.

This post just so happened to be specific to a certain species and location that are dear to you, since Trinity happens to be where you are located. I have become more knowledgeable with regard to why fish are located certain in certain spots one year and not the next because of the report, but that does not mean that I or any other passionate fisherman are ready to go empty the lake of its resources with this so-called insider information from a loose lipped clown.

I guarantee you that most people that google fishing will come across informative information that will make them more aware of why they should respect it. Now some of those people will disregard the information, but others will be enlightened and their passion for fishing will come to include conservation and respect for fish and other fisherman.

And for all those weekend warriors that show up in masses with their boats and are polluting YOUR water way, well if you show up that weekend with your boat and gear, you are doing the exact same thing they are doing and contributing to the packed parking lot and water.

You were upset and took it personal. There's no need to defend your first post with follow ups to try to ease the situation or make others believe that you were taken out of context.


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## Overloaded (Apr 6, 2012)

I'll probably be fishing Caney or Whiterock.


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## nhantech (Dec 18, 2012)

some ppl think that God made "that" fishing spot just for them...its called greed


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## Mattsfishin (Aug 23, 2009)

What do expect coming from a young person that brags about upsetting others. Hell I have forgot more about Lake Livingston than he knows. Yeh I fished the lake before it filled up all the way and I did get to see the Wilson shoals before the lake backed up to Bedias creek. Wilson shoals is one thing that youngster can't talk about. Some people need to grow up and learn some respect before they spout off all the time.


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## Trey C (May 21, 2004)

*Hmmmm....*

Sounds like Caney and White Rock are the place, we have about 6 boats so far coming up this weekend for an annual meat haul. Was gonna stick to the river, but... trinity boy is persuasive in his own little way.. or context.

Keep the reports coming -


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## Bankin' On It (Feb 14, 2013)

I love this place.


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## dnix (Dec 27, 2011)

LOL....Thanks for the Post OP


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