# CCA Chairman,Board of Directors,President



## SolarScreenGuy (Aug 15, 2005)

I am calling you out. Rollover Pass is about to be closed by the state. San Luis Pass is closing. Brown Cedar Cut has been closed for decades. Green's Cut has been closed for decades. Pass Cavallo is closing. Cedar Bayou has been closed for several years. Yarborough Pass has been closed for decades. "Houston, we have a problem". Many of your current members and at least 1 (that would be me) of your former members would like to know where in the hell are you? Your silence is deafening.


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## Portside (Jun 21, 2007)

being a "former member" pretty well makes your opinion irrelevant.


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## Pocboy (Aug 12, 2004)

Pass Cavallo is nowhere near closing. Why don't you call out the rfa? I hear they are masters at keeping passes open.


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## 6.5 shooter dude (Jan 8, 2008)

This is going to be good.


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## Super Dave (May 26, 2004)

suggest you write a letter to the Editor of the Chronicle, giving justification for not closing Rollover, send CCA a cc of the letter. It won't do any good but you'll feel better after venting.

Another option if to write all your representatives in State and Federal Govt and ask their assistance. Get a Black friend to sign and mail it for you. Send Quanell X a cc. That should do it.

Good luck. Appears decision has already been made. Facts mean nothing on this issue.


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## SolarScreenGuy (Aug 15, 2005)

*Portside*

You need to turn Starboard immediately. You are about to run aground.


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## gater (May 25, 2004)

*Old Salty*

Did you change your name.....You sound like some guy named Jim from the Bluewater Board! Gater


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## SolarScreenGuy (Aug 15, 2005)

*Gater*

No, I am not Jim from the bluewater board. My name is Mike. If I sound like Jim, I would like to hear from him.


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## kinja (May 21, 2004)

Coo Coo for Co Co Puffs.:spineyes:


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## Muddskipper (Dec 29, 2004)

Mission Statement of CCA

*The stated purpose of CCA is to advise and educate the public on the conservation of marine resources. The objective of CCA is to conserve, promote and enhance the present and future availability of these coastal resources for the benefit and enjoyment of the general public.*

Not sure where a pass constitues as a resource, but if your PO'd about a man made pass bing closed by the state, why would you bash a organization that is out there to protect the fish.

And BTW, San Luis Pass is not closing. It's a natural pass that connects a barrier island to main land, it it will continually change. 
Cold Pass used to flow into the Gulf, and that's where Treasure Island got it's name.
*Do you want CCA to reopen that too ????*


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## glennkoks (Jun 24, 2009)

I have mixed feeling about rollover. Its a great fishing spot and it offers the fish in east bay enother exit to the gulf in case of a severe fish freeze event.

But on the other hand, its a man made pass and was never supposed to be there in the first place. Its clearly taking sand that would normally be on the beach and washing it into the bay.


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## surfspeck (Jun 7, 2006)

It sure seems like the CCA is more interested in raising money through cronyism at their dog and pony shows than in protecting the resource for future generations. I wonder what the founding members of GCCA and the original conservationsits (The guys who worked to get the Redfish Bill signed) think about the current state of affairs in the CCA and our Texas Fisheries?? I know of one who is probably rolling over in his grave about right now. I also wonder how much time and money those guys donated to cause to preserve the resource?? I wonder how much they profited ??
:texasflag


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## monkeyman1 (Dec 30, 2007)

Muddskipper said:


> Mission Statement of CCA
> 
> *The stated purpose of CCA is to advise and educate the public on the conservation of marine resources. The objective of CCA is to conserve, promote and enhance the present and future availability of these coastal resources for the benefit and enjoyment of the general public.*


if the objective is to do as stated, promoting the future availability of the coastal resources for the benefit and enjoyment of the public, then why haven't we heard from them on the closure? if closing would enhance fisheries or fishing opps, then they should come out in favor of closing. if not, then they should come out against closing. just say something CCA.

again, where is the voice, one way or another? say something CCA.

about to write them...CCA.


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## SolarScreenGuy (Aug 15, 2005)

Guys, make no mistake. There are 2 sources that provide the lifeblood for our bay systems. One is our marshes, the other is our passes. Closing passes is not a good thing. Also, beware of "scientific studies". "Common Sense arise and waken our sleeping brethren" From the Book of Old Saltycus, chapters 7 thru 11. Old Salty- still pluggin'


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## McTrout (May 22, 2004)

Old Salt,

With much respect I was firmly where you are now...then I did about two months worth of research into coastal passes, etc. This is what I came up with, not an easy fix as there are many variables, and all of them cost a lot of money.

It's a long read and please excuse the top stuff, but the meat is in the bottom half. [written for TIDE in 'O5]

Just something else to consider, and thanks for your concern...

*Fishing with the Flow*
Keeping Tidal Inlets in play
​ It was late April, and right on cue, waves of mean, hard-bodied trout were instinctively pushing through a gently rolling surf. Like clockwork, you could count on the week either side of Texas Independence Day for the first run of speckled trout filtering in from the Gulf. After spending the majority of winter past the beachfront, it was time for these fish to invade the rich hunting and spawning grounds of the bay system. If there ever was such a thing as magic, it was all happening right here, right now. Standing knee-deep in dawns green tide hinted of the master plan, and topwater explosions further confirmed that life was good. If we time it just right, the numerous tidal passes between our bays and beaches can produce some of the most awesome light tackle adventures imaginable for eons to come.

Or can they?

Much of our fishing future is out of our full control, but on some issues, we might all benefit from a little more awareness. In the meantime, if we pay attention to a few simple rules of nature, we can continue to tap some of these tidal arteries for the highest outdoor value they have to offer.

The setting above was at the great San Luis Pass, located on the southern end of Galveston's West Bay. On this particular adventure, all we had to do was pitch a topwater up current around tightly packed schools of mullet, twitch it lightly for effect, and then hang on. These fish were running four to six pounds and not your typical full-time resident bay trout. Markedly stronger from months of fighting offshore elements, they were on a mission and meaning serious business. So were we, because like most other exchanges, San Luis Pass can be an intense place to fish. Typical of a spring Gulf tide though, our coveted speckled trout weren't the only predators dictating lethal terms.

Ahead of those trout, working on top of the ever-changing sand bars, were small platoons of aggressive, stiff-finned redfish. First light found them still being bullies, but they were winding down their brutal nocturnal gorge on a fresh arrival of juvenile menhaden. An occasional flounder could also be seen, blowing completely out of the water on black clouds of glass minnows swirling vulnerably in the current. Also present, however, were humping packs of bottle-nosed dolphins, poised and ready to nail anything that moved into harms way.

Watching nature's violent display of aquatic life and death behind a tidal inlet is indeed magic, and Texas host several such places. All have their own unique heartbeats, but in many respects, they are all much the same. It's all about the exchange of water between two separate systems, and where it positions fish - when.

Fishing a tidal pass is a timing game, so being able to follow game fish during tide changes is critical. A very basic overview would be that fish usually use the deeper guts as arteries to & from favored feeding grounds, and then again as a place to sit down when the tide goes slack. A major key to remember, however, is that most all predators abide by two simple rules.

One is to spend as little energy as possible to feed, and the other is to not become feed for something else.

In deeper, major guts, especially on an incoming current, and especially during stronger two day tides, fish are usually in a highway mode and will not hold anywhere for very long. For lack of a better word, it's "pass" shooting, where you get one shot at them as they blow thru and that's it. They are moving and scattering across to the easier, and safer, feeding areas of the flats. An exception would be areas that make the current either change direction or speed, places they can hide behind and let bait be brought safely to them. Distinct points, bends, downstream of the cut outs in sandbars that lead to flats, on top of the bars, and of course on the flats themselves, can be good during incoming tides. However, we might picture tidal movement here as being somewhat like a funnel.

When we fish an incoming tide, we are often fishing the big end of the funnel. Fish are moving in but they quickly scatter across vast areas of water. An outgoing tide on the other hand would be more like the small end of the funnel. When the water starts falling off the flats, the bait has no choice but to enter the deeper & deadlier areas where trout are patiently waiting. Predators tend to concentrate in smaller areas and hold longer. Excellent spots to try are the downstream tips of bars and the little rips dumping into the guts. An often overlooked area is anywhere relatively deeper water slopes up shallower going downstream. Trout will sometimes lay in the shallower part and just wait for the bait to be conveniently pushed up to them. Behind level drops where the current tumbles bait into confusion can also hold good concentrations of both trout and reds.

During slack tides, target the depressed, slightly deeper holding areas on the flats and especially the edges of the deeper guts themselves. Working the steep drop-offs with a noisy topwater can often call non-feeding trout up with violent results, and persistence can save the day if you missed them earlier.

In all stages of tide, the presence of other predators will force game fish such as trout and reds to seek areas where bigger teeth can't get to them. Extremely shallow areas near deep-water escapes are always on the list, and regardless of what we hear, even during middle of the day in the summer. Off-colored water, especially near color changes, can hold many more fish than the more vulnerable cleaner areas. Another interesting but often overlooked scenario, and one that goes against conventional wisdom, is that the best areas to fish aren't always in the big rafts of mullet we see. There are often too many other toothy critters riding that herd, and the bigger & smarter trout usually stay out of that circus, much preferring areas of lesser attention. Back off of the massive rafts to the smaller pods of bait, and the size of your trout just might increase. In trying to summarize, follow the fish in, concentrating on current breaking structure, watch for signs on the flats during the last part of the incoming tide, then work the nearby "safe" areas when it all goes slack. An outgoing tide can be much easier. Key on the small end of any funnels that look good.

Fishing is a life long study that we hopefully never graduate from, and there is just no end to discussing theories and possibilities. However, coastal inlets and passes are much more than just great places to fish. They are marine superconductors if you would, relaying the critical current needed to help keep our bay systems charged at the highest possible amperage. The importance of them is not at question. 

As quoted by The Coastal Inlets Research Program "The United States, through the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, has vital national interest in the stability and behavior of tidal inlets around its coastline." Paraphrasing further, they confirm that inlets are "important commercial and military navigation links", "provide recreational activities", "allow for exchange nutrients and water between bays and ocean bodies", and "are important assets for the economic health of coastal communities." Without them the balance of life as we know it would be tilted. Unfortunately, we are seeing some of that tilt. 

The overall picture is extremely complex, however, it is mostly painted with human intervention. There are two types of breaches from bay to Gulf; those carved by nature and then those designed by man. The faces of both are changing andthere are very valid reasons why. Of the natural passes, where once there were many, are now very few, and some that remain have been sentenced to death by strangulation. In simplistic terms, hydraulic power between bays & beach used to be tremendous, but now an adequate transfer of water rarely exists to keep them flushed clear. 

Historically, most bays contained excess power looking for relief and cuts were scoured at will. However, an ever-increasing demand for fresh water has reduced a once powerful bayward flow into a mere dribble of former volumes. Granted, humans will not be denied their "higher use" of fresh water, and increasing municipal needs, intense industrial use, and voluminous agricultural irrigation means even more dams in the future. Freshwater in-flow is only one factor in the tidal pass equation however. 

Whatever losses of hydrostatic pressure we see from reduced river flow has been multiplied by the almighty modern dredge, the steel claw of modern navigational and canal home progress, the very tool we look to for improvements. Of what force remains, much has been buffered by artificially deepened water such as the Intracoastal Waterway and myriads of canal homes. As badly as they are needed, our dredged deepwater navigational channels, coupled with the radically reduced charge of fresh water, have created an entire set of new rules. 

Natural passes are one story, but our man-made channels are not immune from an evolving society either. We try to force nature to act under our preferred rules, but even the presence of jetties play another card of concern. Due to laterally driven long shore currents, all jetties will block sand on one side, which causes beach erosion on the other. We see this in every location. This stack and rob scenario requires manual re-distribution, and the placement of dredge fill poses even yet another dilemma. 

As to the subject of beach erosion, one of the few things agreed upon by most geologists and engineers is that dredged and jettied navigation channels are the major cause of most our shoreline erosion problems. Without dredge maintenance, longshore currents will also eventually block these jettied entrances. Maintenance cost can be significant. 

We can keep these channels open and flowing with proper funding, but unfortunately, the availability of maintenance dollars is shrinking fast. In today's ecomomic climate, funding is largely, if not fully, based upon commercial tonnage rather than "recreational" or "other uses". "Other uses" includes water quality. Natural disasters such as major hurricanes have drawn the governmental purse stings even tighter. Unfortunately, it goes with small mention that a large part of our coastal economy is dependant on healthy bay systems. A typical example of overlooked "other uses" would be the Port Mansfield Channel. 

With granite out to 2300', it is the shortest successful pass today in its class. However, it has been six years since it was dredged and has shoaled up from twenty feet to five feet in some areas. There is no commercial tonnage here, but for 45 years, the district has counted on the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers to dredge the channel. But a funding crunch led the Corps to scrap plans to do the job that would have cost about $2 million. Being the only exchange between Port Isabel and Mustang Island, it has been deemed highly critical for the health of an economy, which no doubt, largely depends on a healthy bay system.

Whether tidal inlets are man made or by nature's own design, their importance is not in question.So, what can we do to insure that water exchanges in Texas continue to exist and work as they were designed? How can we continue to extract the highest outdoor value from our passes, and, continue to fuel the economies that depend on them? 

Theoretical answers are widely contested and emotionalas everyone wants their local projects funded.Butwhatever the answers are, long term and rational thought dictates that a multi-faceted battle awaits us all. It begins with awareness and ends with cooperation from many concerned groups. 

The awareness part hopefully comes from things like this article. The co-operation between concerned groups has no end. A quote from the U.S. Geological Survey Biological Resources Division states "The most important human-caused components of environmental change over the last 30 years have been water diversion and flood control, brushland clearing, human population increases, contaminants, and continued dredging of the Intracoastal Waterway. 

It's time we get serious about balancing the needs between a growing population and our vital waterways.Let's get to it. In the meantime, we'll see you at the pass. Bring your topwaters.


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## SolarScreenGuy (Aug 15, 2005)

Hey Mctrout, sounds like we agree. I know it costs a lot of money. But, I think it could be done if all of us could get on the same page. Political pressure and money can move mountains. By the way, I was sure glad to here you guys got your cut opened up good again. I hear fishing has really picked up. My primary fishing destination has been Rockport for the past 35 years or so. I was there when Cedar Bayou flowed free and deep enough to actually be a migratory route. Before the state closed it because of the oil spill. Even after mother nature slightly re-opened it, it helped although I don't think it was enough of a pass for significant migration. But since it has been completely closed now for a while, fishing in that area has really nosedived I'm sure you are aware. When I think of the major passes with deep channels and jetties like we have at Sabine, Galveston, POC, Port Aransas, Mansfield, and South Padre, I am convinced that we could have and should have more of them and not fewer. I'm also really worried that the middle coast has had such a downturn even with no fish killer freezes. We all know its bound to freeze again sometime and whatever we have left in the way of trout are going to have no way to escape. I think we need major jettied passes at Rollover, Brown Cedar, Mouth of the Colorado, Greens Cut, Cedar Bayou, and Yarborough. If we had enough major passes opened and eliminate the use of croakers as bait, I believe mother nature will take care of the rest, provided we also have adequate freshwater from the rivers and marshes. Still pluggin'-Old Salty


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## McTrout (May 22, 2004)

Salty I agree,

But the bottom line is that if nature doesn't have the power [or need] to keep certain passes open, they aren't going to stay open without a of of funding. Our's is already silting back up. CCA has contributed quite a bit to these efforts even though it is not in their scope.

Don't know what else to say. We all wish things were different, but I'm still looking for the entity who can trump the cards we have dealt ourselves. Just keep being salty.


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## SolarScreenGuy (Aug 15, 2005)

McTrout, I read where CCA gave 10k for a study on Cedar Bayou. I've also read they have given 3 million for college scholarships, and about 1 million to TPWD (that one smells fishy). 10k for the study is like a cab driver tip. 3 million for college scholarships? Down the drain. A million to TPWD? Corruption! With all due respect to you, "Come on Man", that ain't right! Still pluggin-Old Salty


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## Bigwater (May 21, 2004)

We need to start emailing the corps of engineers and the secratary of the army. I'll dig for the address.

Biggie


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## wading_fool (May 3, 2005)

Old Salty said:


> McTrout, I read where CCA gave 10k for a study on Cedar Bayou. I've also read they have given 3 million for college scholarships, and about 1 million to TPWD (that one smells fishy). 10k for the study is like a cab driver tip. 3 million for college scholarships? Down the drain. A million to TPWD? Corruption! With all due respect to you, "Come on Man", that ain't right! Still pluggin-Old Salty


College Scholarships down the drain? Your right, we shouldn't be helping kids who want to become biologists, fishery managers, etc..........A million to TPWD corruption? I think you need to use the "Come on Man" towards yourself. TPWD gets barely enough from the State to accomplish its objectives, every cent they get is money well spent. Opening the passes is a goal that CCA see's as vital, but there are so many players in the game that you are not even considering. You need to go back and read McTrout's article again, Freshwater flows is where it's at. Population growth has siphoned so much out of area lakes and streams you don't have the natural flow anymore to keep a pass open naturally anymore. http://www.ccatexas.org/home/what-is-cca/accomplishments/freshwater-inflows/ Don't be so short sighted and quick to judge until you have all the info, there are is a lot of political power, fight and debate over water. Population continues to grow, water will become more expensive and lucrative than oil in the years to come, just ask someone who lives in one of the Western states right now. Up there they have a set number of taps off municipal water and there is no drilling your own well. Alot of places you have to haul your water for your own cistern.


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## SolarScreenGuy (Aug 15, 2005)

Wading Fool, no disrespect intended but I was a GCCA & CCA member for a long time up until just a few years ago. I never paid much attention to how they spent the money until just recently. I still don't see how giving away free scholarships helps our fisheries especially when there are other sources available for education. Regarding TPWD, if the State won't fund the needs for that department, CCA could have brought about considerable political pressure to correct that malfunction. Let's not be naive. Strings are attached and data gets manipulated. I know this thread is about Rollover, but you should see the abomination that is being ignored at Cedar Bayou. No sir, I quit CCA because they did nothing on Cedar Bayou and they along with TPWD insisted that the midcoast croaker soakers were causing no harm while I watched the slaughter with my own eyes. Mark my words, they will do nothing on Rollover which will degrade the fishery and they will continue as they hold hands with TPWD to allow the further destruction by the croaker soakers. Still pluggin- Old Salty


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## JimD (May 25, 2004)

You have two different things going on.

If CCA is giving out scholarships then it is for the contest winners of the tournament isn't it? Not much difference than some one winning a new boat in the adult contest.

IIRC CCA did not do a lot when the Galveston beaches were being closed down 5-6 years ago when Lopas and the rest of the fishermen were trying to fight the close.


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## SolarScreenGuy (Aug 15, 2005)

*POCBOY*

News Bulletin: CCA and TPWD have teamed together to award you with a lifetime supply of live croakers for you to use while fishing the mouth of Cedar Bayou. Go get 'em Tiger! Still pluggin'- Old Salty


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## gater (May 25, 2004)

*Old "Jim" Salty*

Just what do you expect CCA or the TP&WD to do with croaker. You really think they can just ban the use of croaker for bait. What next, Piggies, Shrimp, Corkies. "Com on Man", CCA has no control over that and I really don't think the Texas Parks & Wildlife will touch that with a ten foot pole.
Salty, the reason why is because in Rockport, where you like to fish, it's not the Croaker that are killing the fish, it's the person using the croaker.
You know the scene, 300 plus guides crammed in a bath tub, many running double trips a day not to mention the recs that use them. Yes anyone can see why there are no Trout in Rockport, it's them CCA Croaker that killed 'em all but thats an argument for another day.

As far as the Parks and Wildlife goes, CCA helps provide them with much needed equipment to help do their job, equipment that they might never get. The Game Wardens didn't create the screwed up economy nor did they do their own budget but the boats, night vision binoculars, and the many other things that CCA helped purchased is greatly appreciated. Talk to your local Game Warden, they will tell you how bad it is. Last year they were rationing boat gas, can't do much patrolling sitin on the trailer.

Gater


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## Capt. Dustin Lee (Jan 16, 2006)

gater said:


> As far as the Parks and Wildlife goes, CCA helps provide them with much needed equipment to help do their job, equipment that they might never get. The Game Wardens didn't create the screwed up economy nor did they do their own budget but the boats, night vision binoculars, and the many other things that CCA helped purchased is greatly appreciated. Talk to your local Game Warden, they will tell you how bad it is. Last year they were rationing boat gas, can't do much patrolling sitin on the trailer.
> 
> Gater


This is very true. When I worked for TPWD at the Sea Center Hatchery, if it was not for CCA and the money they gave to TPWD, we would not have a restocking program for our bays. Do I agree on everything CCA does, NO but they do more than some folks think. The things CCA did in offshore stuff put a bad taste in my mouth but I am thankful for what they are and have done for our bay systems.

TPWD has a very poor budget. In fact they dont even have enough to run on (thanks to our folks in the capital). If it was not for our volunteers working as hard as they do putting in many many hours, we would not have parks to camp in or hatcheries in this great state. Folks need to get ahold of those folks in the capital and voice your thoughts. It is sad if you ever worked with TPWD and see how little money they run off of. So where is all our money from taxes and licenses going every year? I wished I could tell ya.

Capt. Dustin Lee
Fish'N Addiction Guide Service
www.TexasBigFish.com
www.MatagordaBayFishingGuide.com 
979-236-6203

Team Brown Lures, Fish -N- Hunt, Kubala Kustom Rods, Midcoastproducts., Wiley X and Stinky Pants Stringers.


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## SolarScreenGuy (Aug 15, 2005)

*POCBOY*

Already answered that one. But if you don't remember, never even heard of them. BTW-why would you use croakers? Dynamite would be more effective.


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## Pocboy (Aug 12, 2004)

I use whatever is legal to catch fish. After croakers what are you looking to ban next because that is a slippery slope once you get going on it.
BTW, I have never limited out using croaker so maybe the dynamite idea is a good one.


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## fishnstringer (Oct 20, 2006)

*Ed Fleming of Austin, and me*

took the "Redfish" bill to Governor White for his signing (and have photos to prove it), and I for one remain happy with the way C.C.A. is handling the matters at hand, including what G.C.C.A. started. That's not to say there have not been some mistakes made, but with all things considered I think the ship is running true to plans. BTW, some of the old timers are in their pine box, but there are still a lot of us still fishing and participating in C.C.A.

If more of you C.C.A. bashers would get involved in some constructive activity with regard to actually getting something positive done about the problems at hand, there would be a lot less to complain about. There's plenty of work to share, whether you are in C.C.A. or some other organization, but continually running your negative mouth does not produce anything, except a sore spot in your arse.



surfspeck said:


> It sure seems like the CCA is more interested in raising money through cronyism at their dog and pony shows than in protecting the resource for future generations. I wonder what the founding members of GCCA and the original conservationsits (The guys who worked to get the Redfish Bill signed) think about the current state of affairs in the CCA and our Texas Fisheries?? I know of one who is probably rolling over in his grave about right now. I also wonder how much time and money those guys donated to cause to preserve the resource?? I wonder how much they profited ??
> :texasflag


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## Pocboy (Aug 12, 2004)

Old Salty, there is something far more dangerous to trout than croaker and it seems that it is much easier to get year round as well. Yep, you guessed right, it's the fishing pole with a nice reel attached too. You should start your campaign right now to have those trout killing devices outlawed. Be sure to blame CCA for not being against them from the beginning and don't forget TPWD for even allowing them to be used at all. After that you'll need to go after the Corky and possibly even the boating industry for providing us with the conveyances to access the poor disappearing trout. Let us know how that turns out and be sure to put the blame where it belongs. Have a good Thanksgiving everyone.


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## surfspeck (Jun 7, 2006)

The CCA does and will continue to do some good things for the resource, but, like DU, I believe they have begun acting more like a business and seem more interested in what they can do for the organization than what they could do for the resource. I will contiue to improve my conservation ethics as this is one way we can all help the resource. By the way Gov Briscoe signed the Red Drum Conservation Act in 1977, and Gov Clements signed HB 1000 "Redfish Bill" in 1981. You are obviously happy with the direction CCA is headed and Im sure there are plenty of others that are happy as well and thats all good and fine. However, there are plenty of others that are not soo happy, many of which include "real" old timers.
:texasflag



fishnstringer said:


> took the "Redfish" bill to Governor White for his signing (and have photos to prove it), and I for one remain happy with the way C.C.A. is handling the matters at hand, including what G.C.C.A. started. That's not to say there have not been some mistakes made, but with all things considered I think the ship is running true to plans. BTW, some of the old timers are in their pine box, but there are still a lot of us still fishing and participating in C.C.A.
> 
> If more of you C.C.A. bashers would get involved in some constructive activity with regard to actually getting something positive done about the problems at hand, there would be a lot less to complain about. There's plenty of work to share, whether you are in C.C.A. or some other organization, but continually running your negative mouth does not produce anything, except a sore spot in your arse.


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## wet dreams (May 21, 2004)

NO COMMENT


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## Shallowminded6200 (Jul 2, 2006)

gater said:


> Salty, the reason why is because in Rockport, where you like to fish, it's not the Croaker that are killing the fish, it's the person using the croaker.
> You know the scene, 300 plus guides crammed in a bath tub, many running double trips a day not to mention the recs that use them.
> Gater


A very simple solution.....

5 fish (Trout) per person per day
Minimum Length 16"

Artificial Tackle Only - No Natural Bait - Live or Dead

I know...it's really only a dream but one can hope...


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## [email protected] (May 24, 2004)

This whole discussion of a shrinking fishery reminds me of fishing for late run silvers on the Kenai River in Alaska. The daily bag limit is two fish. The method is artificial only. When an angler boats his second fish he is through for the day...no matter whether the fish is retained or released...you are through when the second fish is boated. The problem is too many people taking too many fish and this is how the Alaska fisheries managers deal with it. Check out the Florida regs for spotted seatrout for another clue as to how managers in other states are regulating their fisheries when fishing pressure exceeds the resources' ability to sustain itself. "No keep" seasons, slot limits and very tight daily bag limit. I pray I will never see it in my lifetime but this is where we could be headed.


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## paver (Mar 5, 2006)

Old Salty said:


> I am calling you out. Rollover Pass is about to be closed by the state. San Luis Pass is closing. Brown Cedar Cut has been closed for decades. Green's Cut has been closed for decades. Pass Cavallo is closing. Cedar Bayou has been closed for several years. Yarborough Pass has been closed for decades. "Houston, we have a problem". Many of your current members and at least 1 (that would be me) of your former members would like to know where in the hell are you? Your silence is deafening.


A new pier is planned to replace Rollover Pass.....See Houston Chronicle Thursday 11/26/2009, City and State "Line running out for Rollover Pass". 
Good Luck with getting CCA involved!


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## Shallow Sport68 (Oct 14, 2008)

IMHO there is no money in keeping anything open or closed,otherwise they would be all over it.hwell:

now can i get a large popcorn with butter please?


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## gater (May 25, 2004)

*Shallowsport68...No!*

No popcorn needed for a stupid comment like that! But if you insist, pop away! Gater


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## The Driver. (May 20, 2004)

Where is Arty & Team Ranger Bob when you need them!

Sorry! Forgot to add Harbormaster also!


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## SolarScreenGuy (Aug 15, 2005)

I still say get the the passes opened, stop the croaker soaking and most of our problems are solved. Anyone who thinks CCA can't apply the pressure where needed is wrong. And if they don't, folks, the future looks mighty bleak. Still pluggin'-Old Salty


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## [email protected] (May 24, 2004)

I understand that Rollover makes a great fishing spot for many who enjoy bank fishing, not to mention that Rollover has been a boon to the Gilchrist community. Rollover was created by the state and now, with very expensive dredge maintenance costs and shrinking budgets, the state wants to close it. No doubt this will be a loss to the fishing community and I truly wish it was not so. But in a practical view, how can this be construed as a fisheries conservation issue? A carefully written letter to your state rep and senator with copies to the Corp of Engineers, General Land Office, and perhaps TPWD would likely do more good than flaming a conservation organization on an internet message board. We are all fishermen, CCA Texas members are fishermen, CCA Texas contributes positively to our fisheries; fishermen should band together and work through constructive channels to achieve common good.


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## flounderdaddy (Aug 2, 2009)

Croaker should be banned state wide. Heck, they screwed up the flounder for us giggers that just go and walk the bank. Make those cats learn how to really fish by throwing plastic. My buck-tooth grandma can catch trout with croaker.


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## SolarScreenGuy (Aug 15, 2005)

EJ, you are a man of great influence and you are also very politically correct. What about Cedar Bayou? What about the slaughter of our trout by the croaker soakers? Where are you on these issues? Be careful now, don't offend any of your subscribers. I know enough about your background to realize that you are not an old timer on this coast. I suggest you seek out the advice of someone who is. This is not the time to accept the unacceptable. We have serious problems and and if they are not corrected, you are going to have fewer and fewer fisherman interested in buying your magazine. Still pluggin-Old Salty


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## McTrout (May 22, 2004)

Salty, still with respect.

EJ has probably done more to promote responsible fishing than any other voice on the coast. It's a hard deal to propose cultural change, but I shudder to think that some look to even more regulations to do so. That Sir, is indeed a slippery slope.


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## McTrout (May 22, 2004)

Salty here's another one for you...perhaps touching on why Cedar Bayou is a very complex issue. Thanks.​*
Cedar Bayou*
​ * A Cut Into Reality*​ * -McBride

*​ Imagine a liquid pipeline.... teeming with aquatic creatures and commanded by nature to be packed full of fascinating diversity with each tidal pulse. A marine superconductor if you would, relaying the critical current needed to help keep our bay systems charged at the highest possible amperage. That's what a tidal pass from beach to bay is, and what Cedar Bayou certainly was, until her mouth was recently closed by the modern sands of fate. Is this unfortunate demise an isolated event, or is it merely a reflection of the changing face of our coastline - a new profile rapidly being carved by an advancing society?
*There's an old adage that we can't control mother nature, but in reality we already have.

*​ Natural openings from bay to beach are crucial, and without them, estuarine life as we know it would cease to flourish. As verified by numerous studies, benefits of Cedar Bayou and passes like it cannot be denied. An early one was called *"Operation Fish Trap",* conducted in March of 1950 by the Texas Game and Fish Commission, pre-cursor of today's Texas Parks & Wildlife Dept. Its goal was "to determine actual total movements of all fish through a pass to and from the Gulf of Mexico". The location of Cedar Bayou, being an obvious example of a thriving life line to a bay, was a logical selection. A few choice observations from 17 months of day and night research are as follows:


*Golden Croaker* were so thick that the noise of grunting fish caught in the traps often awoke the crews at night. "Unbelievably numerous" was the term used as they moved toward the Gulf in the fall. 
*"Redfish *populations in bay areas were affected more by the availability or lack of passes than were populations of any other fish with the possible exception of flounder." 
*shrimp "*showed extensive use of the pass, and the water was literally cloudy with larval shrimp the size of a pinhead as they entered the bay in March."* "*The outward movement during September was quoted as being so extreme that "the pass is inadequate to afford passage to all". Again, they so numerous that the "crews were often awoken by loud crackling sounds as they moved through."
*Blue crabs* migrated through Cedar Pass during every month of the year except from December to early February. The last note of this study concerning crabs was "this is a very intense migration."
*Spotted Seatrout* started entering Cedar Bayou Pass from the Gulf in late March, coinciding with water temps reaching 68F and in association with high inward flood tides. Very little actual migration was seen in July and August, but trout remained plentiful in the area for feeding purposes. In September and October, numerous trout were again captured as they moved out toward the Gulf. Sharp drops in temperature increased outward migrations. 
 Of course, all of these earlier observations are illuminating and useful, but *the importance of these passes is not what is at question.* Unfortunately, neither is the history of pass closures. Tidal inlets are not static features. They are simply born to be wild. They migrate, open, close, change widths and depths, or take on any combination of these patterns. The periodic opening and closing of tidal passes is the natural result of a restless environment striving for equilibrium. During the 19th century, it was common for sailing ships to use one breech when leaving port and another upon the return voyage.*However, history shows that as one pass was closed, another soon opened to take it's place. That's just not so any longer.*

The Cedar Bayous of today are silting in rapidly, but in defiance of the age old process, they are simply not being replaced. In simplistic terms, an adequate transfer of water rarely exist today to keep them flushed clear. *Natural passes have been sentenced to death by strangulation from a lack of energy, *and there are very valid reasons why. They are mostly spelled human intervention.The overall picture is extremely complex however, and it starts at the northern most aquifers and ends at the beachfront jetties.

Beginning well upstream,man's ever increasing demand for fresh water has reduced a once powerful bayward flow into a mere dribble of former volumes.Unprecedented municipal needs, intense industrial use, voluminous agricultural irrigation, expansive flood control systems, all have severely altered the inbound dynamics of our bay systems. The hydraulic power needed to move sand has been trumped by hundreds of cubic yards of concrete, all in the form of upstream dams. To be certain, a growing population will not be denied its access to water, and with concerns for increased reliance on surface water rather than underground aquifers, there are plans to build even more flow reducing reservoirs. *When the Rio Grande become the Rio Sand*_ *however,* *we need to listen to nature's cry for help.*_

Currently, state law prioritizes water usage so that domestic and industrial needs are higher than "other beneficial uses". At the end of the flow line are bays, and legal battles for rights of capture continue to boil.

Aside from the complex subject of flow rates for its mechanical scouring ability, questions of salinity balance regarding marine life are immeasurable. Biological changes in estuaries from poor water management can be devastating, altering species migration and contributing to markedly lowered productivity. Over 90% of all commercially and recreationally important aquatic life depend on fresh water inflow at one or more stages of development. It goes with small mention that a large part of our coastal economy is dependent on healthy bay systems.*

Freshwater in-flow is only one factor in the tidal pass equation however.* *The almighty dredge, the steel claw of modern navigational and canal home progress, has seriously impacted our environment in ways yet unknown.*

Whatever losses of hydrostatic pressure we see from reduced river flow has been multiplied by the modern dredge, the very tool we look to for improvements.Before the Intracoastal Waterway, before man made navigational ports and the channelization of exclusive canal subdivisions, most bays contained excess power looking for relief. Outward flow was often serious, and inlets to the Gulf were virtually scoured at will. Today, the majority of that force has been buffered by artificially deepened water, and has especially been redirected to major jettied openings such as the Aransas and Matagorda Ship Channels. These huge but necessary navigational ditches leave little strength available for the exchange of water elsewhere. Natural passes are naturally the first to go, and a typical example is the relationship between Pass Cavallo and the Matagorda Ship Channel (MSC).

When LaSalle first sailed through Pass Cavallo in 1686, the exchange measured almost 3 miles wide. In 1962, the MSC was created about 6 miles to the north to allow reliable deep water access to inland industry. The hydraulic advantage of the MSC over Pass Cavallo was overwhelming, and the life flow through the natural pass fell to a fraction of what it was. Pass Cavallo is now only about 2,000 ft wide.... and she continues to close. The energy redirected to the MSC is so large in fact, that it has scoured itself out far deeper than the originally planned control depth. The tale is similar coast wide. Our dredged deepwater navigational channels, coupled with the radically reduced charge of fresh water, have created an entire set of new rules.

*Current efforts to re-establish flow at Cedar Bayou are noble and are certainly welcomed. It does appear however, that without consideration of the total cause and effect, a crusade for one specific battle will do little to win a coastal wide war. *

Opening it and it alone, and without addressing root causes, seems to be much akin to throwing a band aid at cancer.Yes, given the funds we can certainly dig her clear. However, without an expanded combat plan, previous experience suggests that long jetties will be required for a pass such as Cedar Bayou to remain open with relatively low maintenance. The shortest successful pass today in its class is the Mansfield cut, which has granite out to 2300'. If lessons of history have any merit, even with successfully built jetties the dredge will still demand a continuing and expensive role. A quick look at the Corps of Engineers bid proposals confirm that even the major jettied passes require extensive maintenance dredging to fight the inevitable flow of choking sand. Unfortunately, the presence of jetties themselves play even another card of concern.

Due to laterally driven long shore currents, all jetties will block sand on one side which causes beach erosion on the other. We see this in every location. This stack and rob scenario also requires manual re-distribution, and the placement of dredge fill poses yet another dilemma. As to the subject of beach erosion, one of the few things agreed upon by most geologists and engineers is that dredged and jettied navigation channels are the major cause of most our shoreline erosion problems.

*Man has a continuing bad habit of manipulating nature to suit his immediate needs, but all too often it comes with a cost we don't fully understand until we've done extensive damage. When we attempt to fix one thing, we often break another.*

So, what can we do to insure that natural water exchanges in Texas continue to exist and work as they were designed, and without inflicting deeper wounds? Can Cedar Bayous continue to live without extreme upkeep and expense? Theoretical answers are widely contested and emotional*,* and many studies are rejected bythe public asbeing scientific nonsense. Whatever the answers are, long term and rational thought dictates that a multi-faceted battle awaits us all. It begins with awareness and ends with cooperation from many concerned groups.

The awareness part comes from a quote from the U.S. Geological Survey Biological Resources Division. "The most important human-caused components of environmental change over the last 30 years have been water diversion and flood control, brushland clearing, human population increases, contaminants, and continued dredging of the Intracoastal Waterway" The quote was originally aimed at the Laguna Madre, but holds true for all areas as well. The co-operation between concerned groups has no end, and it's time get serious about balancing the needs between a growing population and a shrinking natural habitat.

*At Cedar Bayou, we are very likely seeing the growing results of man's manipulation of water dynamics; a picture of things already done - and a mere shadow of things to come*.

The effects of human intervention are far reaching, ranging from erosion, subsidence, imbalance of fresh & salt water, rivers drying up, aquifers emptying, estuaries changing personality, exotic vegetation taking over, etc. Can we effect stream management so that the needs of both man and nature share resources to the maximum mutual benefit? Do we have the foresight to do so, and do we understand that each depends on the other?

Cedar Bayou. Yes, a big necessity. The real necessity however is to learn from her and move towards a better planned future. Cedar Bayou may indeed just be a snapshot of reality, and the reality is that managing water in Texas is serious business. Let's get to it.


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## SolarScreenGuy (Aug 15, 2005)

*Mctrout*

With respect, you say regulation is a slippery slope. There has been some very good regulation in the past. Redfish bill, making redfish and trout gamefish only, legislating limits, to name a few. This responsible idea of keep 5 only may be okay but there won't be 5 to keep without some other changes. My point is and always has been that we could have it all back with just a little common sense. The previous attempts to open Cedar Bayou back up failed because they did not understand the total dynamics with Cedar Bayou and Vinson Slough. I'm told by locals and people involved with Save Cedar Bayou that they now understand how to open it so that it will stay opened. Problem is now there is politics involved and not enough power on the let's get it opened side. This idea of letting the slaughter of the remaining fishery by the croaker soakers continue without any objection from those who have the "Bully Pulpit" is ridiculous. That includes EJ and guess who else? How about you Mctrout? People listen to you. You don't have to be politically correct any more. I give you my permission. If you stand up for what's right I bet your guide business will grow bigger than it already is! Still pluggin'-Old Salty


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## Blk Jck 224 (Oct 16, 2009)

Old Salty said:


> EJ, you are a man of great influence and you are also very politically correct. What about Cedar Bayou? What about the slaughter of our trout by the croaker soakers? Where are you on these issues? Be careful now, don't offend any of your subscribers. I know enough about your background to realize that you are not an old timer on this coast. I suggest you seek out the advice of someone who is. This is not the time to accept the unacceptable. We have serious problems and and if they are not corrected, you are going to have fewer and fewer fisherman interested in buying your magazine. Still pluggin-Old Salty


My Mama can catch trout by soaking croaker. Exploiting juvenile croaker is as bad as putting up corn feeders in Uvalde county. Don't let this get too political. CCA has had good & bad ideas just like all others. Don't harass EJ too much...he has information coming in from all angles & has to make sense of it all. I just want Pam's recipies to keep coming in so my wife will renew my subscription next year...:texasflag


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## Shallow Sport68 (Oct 14, 2008)

Who was it that not too long ago was saying..watch out boys sand is gonna fly!....?


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## Pocboy (Aug 12, 2004)

I believe it was Salty's twin brother.
BTW Salty, you claim that Pass Cavallo is on the verge of closing as well but the last time I was there it was 200 yds wide and about 20 feet deep.


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## Im Headed South (Jun 28, 2006)

So Old Salty or Jim or what ever your name is your telling me you know about the Save Cedar Bayou Org but have no idea who the RFA is huh? Doesn't speak very highly of the organization of choice for some of the folks on here does it? Must be nice to come on here and throw your grenades without having to answer questions about your group (allegedly). Well since you have been in contact with Lynn at SCB why don't you ask her who has contributed as much as anyone to her efforts both in funding and with their influence with the powers that be? I can tell you its been CCA Texas! Take a look at her post at Texas Flats Fishing, she makes it pretty clear. Who was the only invited organization to the closed door meeting with all the heavy hittings a couple months back in Rockport? It was CCA! Who has lobbied year after year in Austin to insure adequate freshwater flows reach the bays? CCA is who! As far as the original reason for the post I can tell you that I have never been to Rollover and its a little out of my range but from some of the post I've read on here it sounds like a man made headache to me. Let the environmental studies get done and then someone might be able to take a stand on the issue. If its shows to be doing more harm that good then I say close it up. And if you do happen to run into that Jim fella down there in Rockport that quit posting about the same time you started your bash CCA campaign on this section of the board please ask him to look up and answer the question that I asked him on the Bluewater board about the time he disappeared. I'm sure it was just a quinky dink!

Mike


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## SolarScreenGuy (Aug 15, 2005)

Pocboy, your reading comprehension skills need a little sharpening. I'm Headed South, just exactly where have I promoted any group? If you think I am someone else from the past, I have no idea what you are talking about. As a matter of fact, if there was a group who were willing to stand up and fight for what is right, I would sign up immediately. Go ahead, tell me who it is. BTW-I read about that last meeting on the Cedar Bayou project. There was 1 representative from CCA. He did not speak a word. Still pluggin-Old Salty


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## Pocboy (Aug 12, 2004)

I believe you previously listed several passes that were in danger of closing and I only wanted to point out to you that your placing Pass Cavallo on that list was either a lack of research or an attempt to inflame an issue further. I personally think it was both and maybe my comprehension skills don't need as much sharpening as yours.


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## SolarScreenGuy (Aug 15, 2005)

*Pocboy*

I will also add fact finding to your list of skills that need sharpening. Pass Cavallo is in the process of closing.


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## "Reddrum" (Dec 15, 2005)

This thread has run it's course. Point taken, duly noted, etc. - now do something about it.


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## Pocboy (Aug 12, 2004)

Pass Cavallo was supposed to close naturally after the Matagorda Jetties were put in place, but that has not and will not happen. I enjoy taking my family to the pass instead of sunday beach because of the crowds. Now I don't claim to know squat about any of the other passes but I can tell you, and I did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, that Pass Cavallo is not closing. I went to Google Earth and measured the narrowest width of the pass and I got 779 yards, .44 miles, 28,057 inches and 418 smoots. (What the heck is a smoot?)


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## chugger (Jul 12, 2009)

The McBride "Cedar Bayou" article makes a very good point as to how coastal residents and those who use coastal resources should keep an eye peeled for what's happening upstream:

http://www.sanmarcosriverranch.com/index.php

http://n8a.com/content/your_news/default.asp?ArID=253673

http://www.newstreamz.com/2009/10/15/martindale-development-spurs-water-protests/

Better watch out for those water grabbing water skiers
"Charlie doesn't surf" and Redfish don't ski


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## Bobby (May 21, 2004)

"Reddrum" said:


> This thread has run it's course. Point taken, duly noted, etc. - now do something about it.


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## [email protected] (May 24, 2004)

The damming and diversion of the Guadalupe reduces the flow through Cedar Bayou and contributes to its closing. 

The construction of the Gulf Intra-Coastal Waterway through Aransas and San Antonio Bays has created a diversion of natural (historic) currents through these bays further weakening flow through Cedar Bayou thereby contributing to its closure.

The opening of the Matagorda Ship Channel weakened the flow through Pass Cavallo and contributed to a narrowing of this pass. If my memory is accurate the pass is now about half the width it was when the channel was constructed in the mid-60s. 

Manmade passes, even with jetties to capture and direct gulf currents, are victims of silting as materials transported by littoral (along the beach) current end up deposited in the pass. The Port Mansfield Channel is a good example as is Rollover. At Mansfield, the channel itself closes and at Rollover the silts end up clogging the junction where pass flows meet the ICW. Both require periodic dredging. 

Cedar Bayou is in a class of its own and has a very checkered past. That the barrier islands are a work in progress is no secret. What began as a series of tiny shoals became a chain of islands that grew together. Evidence of ancient washover fans exist all along the coast to support this theory. 

The checkered past of Cedar Bayou includes a natural closing of Cedar Bayou as early as 1913-14 and a natural re-opening during a hurricane in the summer of 1915. Of note is that the hurricane of 1915 ended a period of prolonged drought. 

Cedar Bayou remained mostly open until the mid-late 1930s when it was re-opened by TPWD dredging in 1939.

Cedar Bayou closed again during the historic drought of the 50s and was re-opened, again by TPWD, in 1959.

Cedar Bayou was closed to prevent the Ixtoc oil spill from entering the bay in 1979. It re-opened on Hurricane Allen in 1980 and remained open until it closed again naturally in 1984.

Cedar Bayou closed shortly thereafter and was dredged again by TPWD in 1987.

Cedar Bayou closed again in the early 90s and was re-opened by TPWD dredging in 1995.

Cedar closed again in about 1999 and re-opened naturally during Hurricane Claudette in July 2003. It remained mostly open until December 2007 when it closed naturally. The pass flows very limitedly today during extreme high tide events.

After thirty years of data collection effort, during which the pass has been closed and open, TPWD finds no increase or decrease in the relative abundance of commercially and recrecreationally important species in the Aransas-San Antonio Bays to warrant additional dredging effort.

Would we like see all our historic passes open? Why of course we would. Do commercial and recreational important species use these passes when they are open? Surely they do. However, there is strong evidence in TPWD's population sampling data that says these species must find alternate routes to and from the Gulf of Mexico when they are closed. 

Fishery managers and concerned recreational anglers can only manage what is left of the marine resources that once teemed on our coastline. As the number of recreational anglers grows (USFWS, TPWD and American Sportfishing Association say saltwater angling in Texas grew 25% between 2001 and 2006) it is quite easy to deduce that we need to satisfy ourselves with a thinner slice of what was once considered an inexhaustable supply.

Personally, I am involved in the effort to encourage our state's water managers to include inflow as part of the plan. I also encourage Catch and Release, taking a few for a fresh meal. I would greatly prefer catching thirty and keeping a few as opposed to catching only a few. 

Banning croaker? Well, all I'm going to say is be careful what you wish for. What should we ban next...live shrimp, mullet, cut bait, Super Spooks, Skitter Walks, Corkys, braided line, GPS, 4-stroke outboards? Think about it!

There's my long-winded $0.02 Salty.

EJ


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## SolarScreenGuy (Aug 15, 2005)

*Reddrum-Conditional approval*

I agree. I promise not to make any further replies on this thread but only if POCBOY will solemnly pledge to never again abuse our fishery with his little live croakers!


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## Texas Jeweler (Nov 6, 2007)

Passes open and close on a continuous bases if left to nature. Because we have money and machines, we operate it differently. We do it at will or as the account allows. 

I would wish Rollover Pass to remain open. It is my belief the exit/entry of the waters there helped save East Bay after Hurricane Ike. The amount of sulfuric contaminated water entering the bay system effects were lessened by the tide changes and did not wipe out the fish population there. We have seen what happened to the oyster farms and it is not getting much press. 

Now, let us look a little long term before they spend funds to closss Rollover. What is the "Ike Wall" gets approval and is constructed? All of the fundsa spent to close the Pass are wasted then, as the Wall will block it.

Just a thought!


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## Pocboy (Aug 12, 2004)

When I use croakers I don't catch much anyways so my continued use will not affect any fish population in the future. I will promise not to use any croakers for the next 4 months.


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## chicapesca (Jun 7, 2004)

Good information EJ, thank you. I'm trying to get a grasp on these passes and the issues related to their opening/closing and I appreciate you taking the time.


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## SolarScreenGuy (Aug 15, 2005)

*EJ*

Since Pocboy has given me his permission, I will reply to your post. You mention that TPWD has found no reduction or increase in the fish relative to the opening or closing of Cedar Bayou. Do you believe that? People who actually fish that area know better. Regarding the live croakerbait issue, I still say, why bother when dynamite has proven to be even more effective. Still pluggin-Old Salty


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## chugger (Jul 12, 2009)

*Conspiracy Theory?*

Old Salty
Just curious
What's in it for TPWD to cook the books on a survey?


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## SolarScreenGuy (Aug 15, 2005)

*Chugger*

Can't answer that one. But you can ask any area guide or regular fisherman in that area and you will find out that no one would believe a finding like EJ says TPWD reported. I have fished that area myself for many moons and the closing of Cedar Bayou has been a disaster. For more info look up Save Cedar Bayou Inc. There is a world of info on the Texasflats fishing site.


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## wading_fool (May 3, 2005)

x2 on what TPWD gets out of cooking the books Salty? Your looking at the pass situation from a emotional standpoint and not from a intellectual standpoint. You need to go back and read some of McTrouts and EJ's posts, without the freshwater inflow you will be dredging passes on a yearly basis, so goes the tidal flows along our Texas Coast. Our Tides flow length ways along our beach fronts carry sand and sediments which continually work to close our passes. Without the freshwater inflows to constantly flush those passes they will continually to naturally close. There used to be a great sign out at the camping area that talked about the history of Cedar Bayou and the fact that it used to move up and down the barrier islan. Cedar Bayou is a very complex issue that without the opening of Vinson Slough you might as well not even bother. Opening Vinson Slough opens your political minefield. And like others have said CCA has supported and written letters in favor of opening the pass. Maybe something will move forward now that the county has taking over the permitting process and will submit the new applications under their name [URL="http://www.rockportpilot.com/articles/2009/12/02/news/doc4b1580ad7c7b60341. Besides opening the pass you hav... complaining about CCA and Croaker fisherman?


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## [email protected] (May 24, 2004)

*I would like to add a couple points to the post I made earlier refence passes.*

If ever a Texas bay was blessed with inflow and connection to the Gulf of Mexico it would be West Matagorda. Now we look at the sad state of the seatrout fishery in the Aransas-San Antonio system and wonder what caused it. Cedar Bayou being closed comes instantly to the tip of everybody's tongue. "It's a no-brainer," we all say, "open the pass and the problem will be fixed."

But what about West Matty? She has two large and powerful passes yet her fisheries are in the tank alongside Aransas and San Antonio. The truth is that the ecosystem of our bays is far more complex than we as laymen could ever imagine. How could any one man, lifelong rec angler, guide, shrimper, commercial finfisher, oysterman; how could any of us, or perhaps even all of us, know as much as Coastal Fisheries and their thirty years of intense and scientifically formulated data collection?

Sure we spend lots of days on the water and we've learned the how-where-when of catching the species that are important to us, but what about inflow, what about salinity, what about turbidity, what abouot water temperature, what about the abundance or absence of the various algae and plankton, the benthic organisms we don't even know exist or have a clue as to their role in the ecology of the bay? What about these?

Cook the books? Participate in clandestine alliances for landowner benefit? Come on now. A major portion of the funding stream for TPWD is recreational license sales. Truth is, Coastal Fisheries want people to catch fish and Coastal Fisheries have done a wonderful job of managing our fisheries, and this not just my opinion. The 25% runup in license sales over the period 2001-2006 is proof. Their work is independently peer reviewed by panels of fisheries biologists and resource managers from all over the country. Guess what? TPWD Coastal Fisheries earns the highest marks in the nation and their management regimes and data collection protocols are implemented by other state's agencies who would cut off their right arm to be in the position we are in.

My greatest fear is that too many are going to wake up too late. As I said in the post above, we can only manage what is still in front of us. I fear that too many will continue in their traditional aggressive harvest mode believing that they are not part of the problem. And I'm not pointing the finger at just recs, comms, guides or even the managers who have not yet implemented more conservative harvest regulations. The handwriting has been on the wall for a while folks. We've had no killer freezes or significant red tide outbreaks on the middle coast in 20 years yet our fisheries are tanking. Guess who the culprits might be? It will be shameful if we wait until the writing fades so badly we can longer read it and end up with a copy of the paperback to figure it out.

Yes I would love to see Cedar Bayou flowing, but I'm not sufficiently naive to see the opening of the pass as a silver bullet. The answer lies in standing up and asking for what is left of rivers and fishing more conservatively.

Another longwinded $0.02 worth. Think about it!

EJ


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## ATE_UP_FISHERMAN (Jun 25, 2004)

Good write up EJ


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## Beetle (Oct 17, 2005)

Maybe PBo can get some money from his "Stash" to open the passes.


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## chugger (Jul 12, 2009)

*Knee Jerks*

A large problem for TPWD in the management of coastal fisheries is the knee jerk reaction of the fishing community and of several fishing organizations to what they perceive as the so called" slippery slope" of government regulation. As a result TPWD has become a timid bureaucracy---they are a political animal that is slow to respond, if they respond at all, to the circumstances and evidence at hand, due to their fear of stirring up the anti-government,no rules or regulations at any cost, crowd. Instead of being pro active toward resource management ,TPWD, out of political fear,sits back and are happy to do as little as possible so as to not bring trouble to themselves and threaten their future pension checks.

The fishing community better give up this fear of being labeled "tree hugger" ,conservationist ,green, etc.. Just label me as a fisherman that wants to keep fishing(put whatever label you want on that). We better take care of the resource that provides our recreation and livelihoods--- by whatever means it takes . That might require taking a different attitude than "I will do whatever,however,whenever- I **** well please" . What label do you put on someone with that attitude?

We now live in a crowded state that is growing rapidly and, we will need some reasonable management measures and some reasonable managers(TPWD) to insure the sustained viability of the coastal resources we cherish. Let's help TPWD get the job done instead of ham stringing them with strange conspiracy theories of how TPWD is out to control and lock up the world. They are in the fishing business and they want to insure the future of fishing.

Should TPWD be given a blank check? No
Should fishermen maintain an attitude of healthy skepticism towards TPWD findings and reports? Yes

----- but we should do so with an attitude of being concerned and a desire to be involved in the decision making process, rather than sitting on the bank and throwing non-sense rocks at the one state agency that seems to care, and that we pay to help.


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## [email protected] (May 24, 2004)

Bravo Chugger, Bravo! That is one of the best written pieces on the topic I believe I have ever seen!


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## railbird (Jan 2, 2009)

*Thats funny!!*



[email protected] said:


> Bravo Chugger, Bravo! That is one of the best written pieces on the topic I believe I have ever seen!


1st of all EJ, that jackass isn't even talking about keeping the passes open. He is still referencing his real issue of closing boat traffic in a few dozen flats for his yakr buddys. Flats he isn't willing to identify. He and his other buddys disappeared when we pushed them to name those flats.

Well chugger are you WPP guys going to tell us which flats you are trying to using TPW to close? You stumping for them is quite transparent.

chuck


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## chugger (Jul 12, 2009)

Cue it up:

Knee Jerk Reaction


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## [email protected] (May 24, 2004)

Dear Railbird, I don't know this chugger guy. I have no clue as to his affiliations or his politics. But - the post he made here made sense to me within the context of the discussion in which it was offered.


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## Super Dave (May 26, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> How could any one man, lifelong rec angler, guide, shrimper, commercial finfisher, oysterman; how could any of us, or perhaps even all of us, know as much as Coastal Fisheries and their thirty years of intense and scientifically formulated data collection?
> 
> EJ


The "Answer Man" knows.


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## jim smarr (May 21, 2004)

*Cedar Bayou and Vinson's Slough*

*Cedar Bayou and Vinson's Slough*

The real truth as to damage to the system will soon be a part of a Federal Lawsuit to restore the passes. We have spent somewhere north of 500,000.00 in grant dollars to study the issue of restoration of these vital passes via Save Cedar Bayou, inc. The B.S. spouted here by a few about the reasons for problems being fresh water inflow make me sick. We did not have problems when the passes were open. They are closed so we have a multitude of problems in seven bays. Fresh Gulf saltwater at 34 ppt is a salinity we can all live with. Above 45ppt the fry die. The bays have seen 50 to 60 ppt salinities for years and even 76 ppt in mesquite bay. Fresh Gulf inflows would have 
reduced salinities had the passes been open.

Reading the B.D. King Report or the Ernest Simmons report on the passes
will open eyes as to the importance of the passes. These are thirty year
on site studies. I gave the TPWD Commission a copy of both reports and asked them push to restore the closed passes. 

The coverup on this has been unbelievable. 

Lee Marshal Bass Chairman Emeritus of TPWD and the Rancher on St Joseph Island has stated recently to a friend of mine as long as he was alive the passes would not be reopened. The closing of these passes have been declared illegal and even a criminal act recently by regulators. 

There will be no cover for the land owners to the south the Bass family as
the GLO has defined the land north of Vinson's Slough State land and always has been. I am sickened our eco system has crashed because of the illegal and criminal closure of Vinson's Slough which sealed the fate of Cedar Bayou. 

Federal Court with the years of studies is exactly where this issue needs to be ironed out. I was with our Attorney yesterday. We will not fold on this one as we are moving all our chips in on this hand which is a royal flush. 

The press will have hell whitewashing this train wreck as they have in the past. I can't be bought. I want the passes restored according to the preferred option of 300 feet wide on both passes. The 500,000.00 was well worth every dime to insure a proper restoration.

TPWD will have egg on their face along with the Bass Family once the cold hard facts hit the Federal Courtroom. The seven Agencies who have caused delays will also be in the fray. Key employees will be facing a personal subpoena. The lying will come to a screeching halt. 

We may file a separate case to pursue criminal charges in Federal Court. Enough is enough. I am putting together a list of defendants for both cases. 

Since the damages are many times the EXXON Valdez I feel confident the National Press will cover the issue.


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## railbird (Jan 2, 2009)

I wish the passes were never closed, but i dought you can win against such a massive amount of power. I have a feeling your attorney is not taking this on contingency. I hope you aren't paying them by the hour, cause the bass family and the state are going to produce enough paperwork for thousands of billable hours.
The bass family are very wealthy people, and with wealth comes power. I hope you don't go broke in this endevour. 

Good luck we are all pulling for you.


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## conk (Mar 25, 2007)

Jim-

Not bashing, just curious. How do you explain Baffin and its hypersalinity? It seems to be o.k.


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## jim smarr (May 21, 2004)

Slightly different genetic markers for each bay system allow for the difference in survival. That is simple.


The worries about what we are or I am up against with the Agencies or the Billionaire Bunch from Fort Worth is not as much of a problem with the designation of illegal and the word criminal be added to the pile. As far as our data and engineering reports they are rock solid. There is no defense for what has happened for the last 20 to 30 years on our State Land to appease the former and current Chairman Emeritus of TPWD being a Bass. 
To many old men still live that worked on the project that have been silently given depositions as to the criminal act. As I said there is no defense once the data we have hits the registry of the court for the Judges review.

Criminal is Criminal- when Erin Brockavich was up against a large group of powerful folks she stood her ground with solid data. The big guys got crushed. Seems we have had human deaths due to vibrio. We have a direct tie to the closed passes and vibrio from the formost infectious disease expert on the planet. We have lost 51 Whooping Cranes at a million a copy being 51,000,000.00 . How though do we value loss of life and limb from vibrio? How do we calculate losses to the eco system? We don't but our experts have done a darn good job. 

We have been working on the brief for the case for ten years keeping copias notes. The other side will not believe what we have dropped on them as they will be in shock. 

Once this has been settled we will award the wall of shame for those who
helped coverup the Criminal act of Ilegally closing Vinson's Slough for personal gain.


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## conk (Mar 25, 2007)

Jim-

The Erin Brockovic story was a _civil_ trial, not criminal.

Do you have the proof to show criminal intent?

If this is a criminal case, when does it get turned over to the DA?


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## jim smarr (May 21, 2004)

*Good Question*

When will this go to the DA. He knows and has known for 2 months about the criminal designation. He will either file or be a part of the problem along with others who have aided and abetted. LOL Many Officers of the court were present when the Criminal designation was made in a meeting
including many current elected officials. They will al be part of the solution or should part of defendants list. Lol

The plan of attack will be a total surprise as to how we proceed. I am not dumb enough to go much further in disclosing the detailed plan of attack.
The Attorney ask me how I would move forward if I was in his chair. He was shocked at the plan I laid out. He agreed with the plan as it was so simple but devastating and indefensible for the defendants.


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## Barnacle Bill (May 21, 2004)

I left CCA because of the TOBA issue years ago.... But there ain't no reason to go bashing them and knocking them all of the place.. they do have their place and they have done a lot for the fisheries. I think bashing them openly trying to get a response is the wrong way to go. 

Did you try emailing or contacting them otherwise before you called them out here on this board?

Did you give them a fair chance to respond to your inquiries?

I went to meetings in Austin with Jim Smarr and Mont and others on behalf of Cedar Bayou/Vinsons Slough and KNOW how hard it is to get the GLO and others to take a serious look at an area and make a plan. It ain't easy by any means and you're looking at AT LEAST a couple of years down the road before they pay you any attention.

Like I said, I'm not a member of CCA and have no dog in the hunt but I figure on at least dealing with folks on the up and up and giving them a chance before you go harranging them on a doggone message board.


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## conk (Mar 25, 2007)

This sounds like a movie in the making. I wish you all the best in your endeavor. Any idea on a time line? Have you notified the press?


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## Pocboy (Aug 12, 2004)

Jim, I seriously hope the "sand will be flying" soon, but I believe you are fighting a system that cannot and will not lose.


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## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

What about the San Bernard river that closed up as an unintentiional effect by the new brazos river mouth? It used to be a thriving place with shrimp boats harboring up the river and fishing plentiful. It eventually closed completely less than 5 years ago, the river was dying. Now that they have opened it up after decades of dying like a slow cancer, birds are working up river over fish and bait stands/shrimpers will be coming back, crabbers are working again. There is some evidence of what the closing of a pass/river does... only reason it was opened though is due to the tugboat guys having a hard time in currents at the brazos locks. Seems you must find a political/money industry affected and have them get it working again like the power of the tugboat association. CCA could possibly be a power with the claimed number of membership and political connection.

someone start a new organization not specific to a particular pass like save cedar bayou... might I suggest, DOPE (Dig Out Passes Everywhere).. passes are the dope needed for a healthy system?


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## jim smarr (May 21, 2004)

Pocboy said:


> Jim, I seriously hope the "sand will be flying" soon, but I believe you are fighting a system that cannot and will not lose.


Not to worry-The chain of events in the Criminal Act is like the keystone cops. They were so confident they did not even try to cover up their tracks ever and I mean ever. We have a complete paper trail. Criminal is a very strong addition to the immediate solution. We will get what we want
taking the issue step by step.


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## SolarScreenGuy (Aug 15, 2005)

Best of luck and Godspeed! Finally, a group with clout, cujones, and a moral sense of responsibility steps up! From your next new RFA member and Still pluggin'-Old Salty


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## jim smarr (May 21, 2004)

Barnacle Bill said:


> I left CCA because of the TOBA issue years ago.... But there ain't no reason to go bashing them and knocking them all of the place.. they do have their place and they have done a lot for the fisheries. I think bashing them openly trying to get a response is the wrong way to go.
> 
> Did you try emailing or contacting them otherwise before you called them out here on this board?
> 
> ...


Bill

My comments were aimed at the Agencies and the Bass Family. I just wanted to say we are going headfirst into the fray at RFA. The Court route will not take 2 years BTW. Justice will come swiftly now that we have the words "Criminal Act" on the record dealing with the million yards of sand dumped in Vinson's Slough.

Only the dogs with flees need to be worried.

Jim Smarr
RFA Texas


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## McTrout (May 22, 2004)

Jim,

The references to freshwater inflow have nothing to do with how or why the pass was closed. However, it certainly does bear thought on why passes such as CB will now have a harder time staying open without maintenance. That's all, and thanks.


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## jim smarr (May 21, 2004)

*Fresh Water ninflows vs Open Passes*



McTrout said:


> Jim,
> 
> The references to freshwater inflow have nothing to do with how or why the pass was closed. However, it certainly does bear thought on why passes such as CB will now have a harder time staying open without maintenance. That's all, and thanks.


Fresh water inflows do not allow frye in from the Gulf as does an open natural fish pass. 

Passes can be engineered using hydrology studies to compensate for these factors very easily. The problem is the government has not used extensive hydrology studies to design restorations in the past. Had they used cutting edge tech computer programs maintenance would have been reduced greatly.

The press has been remiss in reporting the short sighted previous failures
involving our historical passes and their maintenance. Remember Governor John B. Connolly placed the first fishing license in force back in 1962. The fee was 50 cents. The funds were to be used to maintain our Historical Natural Fish Passes. He had most likely read the Ernest Simmons and B. D. King reports regarding the importance of these vital passes. One report is 51 pages long and is a culmination of now thirty years on onsite studies on Cedar Bayou showing the vast quantities of life that clouded these passes during seasonal migrations. Shrimp clicking sounds so loud the men could not sleep. Balls of blue crabs numbering a thousand per ball going out to complete their life cycle. Clouds of pinhead size shrimp that darkened the waters in bound to the bays. These reports are astounding to me since we currently have 14 natural passes still closed due to the Ixtoc oil spill. The solution was to close them verses boom them. We now know this was devastating to our Coastal Resources. 

We are constantly spending millions for beach grade sand to restore our Coastal Beaches. The 14 closed passes would dump sand naturally on the Beaches. Our bays are getting sanded up instead. If we do not wake up we will have lost our entire bay systems to sand that should have been transported out to the beaches. I guess thirty years from now some rocket scientist will figure out the reason we lost our bays. The current solution is to cut limits and ask us to be good stewards of the resource. These people work for us. We should demand better out of TPWD and the CORP. They should maintain the vital passes. I have begged them to apply for grant funding to reopen all the passes and on the record doing so at TPWD Commission level. Common sense is lacking in Austin and Galveston as to real future problems we face. The press even supports TPWD and cuts to bag limits for the most part. We need to wake up as a user group and demand common sense solutions to very simple problems.

Jim Smarr
RFA Texas
361-463-1558


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## jim smarr (May 21, 2004)

*Just went through this a few comments*

I did not know old salty until he sent me a pm today.

We had a lawsuit in place that was causing SCBI problems in securing a grant. Ms. Lynn Edwards was told by a member of the Coastal Coordination Council she could not get grant funding as long as Mr. Smarr had that lawsuit in place. It was causing problems with some of his friends the Bass family. He then told her to get me to drop the lawsuit or she would not get any funding which I did without prejudice. Mr. Barrett ended the conversation with a statement that this conversation never happened. Mr. John Barrett was the member that threatened Lynn on the funding issue. He was removed from the Council as a result. We made some calls to make sure he was removed to the GLO immediately.

Regarding funding for first 100,000.00 grant required a 40,000.00 dollar match. I received a call from Lynn Edwards in tears asking me to help her as she need 40,000.00 and had 60 days to get it. Bless her heart she had no idea where to get funding on such short notice. I told her not to worry I would help her. I made calls to Ray Allen and got a 10,000.00 dollar commitment. I called SEA and got her a 10,000.00 commitment. I stopped by and met with Wilma Anderson at Texas Shrimp and picked up a check for 2,000.00 dollars. I talked to some friends that were large donors of CCA. They promised me they would get me 10,000.00 for Lynn. These funds did not come easily as these folks had to raise heck to force the issue. I had a meeting with the County Judge and managed to get 5,000.00 out of the County for the project. I had not had a fundraiser for the RFA so funds were not there. The best I could do was raise funds via the backdoor from a few friends. In 48 hours I had 37,000.00 of the 40,000.00 the project needed. I still have friends in CCA that believe the way I do about this project. Lynn was amazed as she had funds to cover the 3,000.00 balance in the SCBI account. I do believe the people in Austin thought Lynn would never in a million years get the matching funding as a result she would go away. They got a shock 48 hours later when she called and told them the match was in place.

I have asked and gotten funds from the Coastal Bend Guides Association and the County recently to help Lynn in the amount of 10,000.00. 

I do need to get in the fund raising mode at RFA so we can flex our muscles when we need to. We have had one major fundraiser in Houston that was successful to honor John P. "Jack" Cowan the man that was responsible for the first redfish bill. His son in law Joe Allen dropped the bill for him as he was a Member of the Texas Legislature. Joe Allen has since passed away as has Mr. Cowan. Mr. Cowan asked his daughter to speak for him at our fundraiser in his honor as Jack was gravely ill. He wanted to set the record straight as to 
how the redfish bill was done. He and his son in law did it before there were any .org's.
Perry R. Bass had an attorney help draft the bill. This was a result of Perry and Jack seeing nets on St Joseph Island. They wanted them out of the water. The fishing that day was really bad as "Jack" recanted the story to me. "Jack" to his friends told me the same story just a week before he passed away. There was no doubt he wanted the story told. Kitty his daughter did just that in a very emotional speech at our fundraiser. Jack did not like the history being rewritten. God bless John P. "Jack" Cowan, a true conservationist and artist extraordinaire. May he rest in peace.

The issue of CCA being at the closed door meeting in Aransas County the rep was not invited but came with someone else. Our Judge was furious as he did not want anyone but Agencies and Elected Officials in the Courtroom that day. I did visit with the Judge and gave him a list of questions to ask prior to the meeting. We both felt the meeting would go easier if the RFA was not there as we felt the Agencies would not speak openly due to our stance on opening the passes and possible pending litigation. The Judge left the decesion up to me as the Agencies were squirming. I di what I needed to do to get everything on the record.

This is the very meeting where my question was asked about who owned the land to the North of Vinson's Slough. The GLO stated the State of Texas owned the land in question. The second question was asked about how the GLO responded to aerial photos of the sand dam. presented to them by a man from Rockport(Me) The GLO rep stated that the dam was an abnormal anomaly. He then called in an environmental Attorney that reviewed the dam. The Attorney declared it was not only illegal but a criminal act. This was a statement made in front of reps from Kay Bailey's office, John Cornyn's office, Ron Pauls office, Rep Todd Hunter and various County Officials and our County Judge and Commissioners, and our County Attorney in our County Court Room that day.

These Officers of the Court now have a major problem as they have been told a major crime occurred in Aransas County. They have the obligation to react in a timely manner.


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## gater (May 25, 2004)

*Passes*

Opening the passes will allow the sand to replenish the beaches and freshwater inflow do not allow frye in from the Gulf. Splain dat to me Jim, just in what in the He!! are you talking about here. Gater


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## Barnacle Bill (May 21, 2004)

I know if anyone can do it, it will be Jim. I'd get everyone I know to back the RFA if I were you guys.


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## Im Headed South (Jun 28, 2006)

Looks like a post that would be written at midnight! Talk about history being re-written. CCA was a invited to the meeting maybe not by who you were talking to but by another major party that was present and felt it was important to have the largest most influential saltwater conservation group in the state present. Care to tell us how the conversation went the next day when Judge Mills called you because you came on this very board and said that you provided all of the questions to him making him look like no more than a RFA mindless robot? You keeping CCA out of your diatribes sure was nice while it lasted how about sticking to what the RFA has done in the past(which is not much in Texas) and what they are planning to do in the future. By the way I'm still waiting on some membership numbers, National and Texas if you don't mind. "God bless John P. “Jack” Cowan, a true conservationist and artist extraordinary." I will agree with you on that point and it was a little before my time but you and I both know the reason for the riff that brought up the whole who got things done way back when. I have my thoughts on the subject and we will have to agree to disagree on it.

Mike


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## Bigwater (May 21, 2004)

Do I hear the wind blowing out there?? Or is that a sucking sound?

Bigwater


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## jim smarr (May 21, 2004)

*Gator maybe this is easier for you to read*



gater said:


> Opening the passes will allow the sand to replenish the beaches
> Closed passes sand settles in our bays-Open passes sand is washed out to the Gulf to travel in the currents therefore renourishing the beaches.
> 
> and freshwater inflow do not allow frye in from the Gulf.
> ...


Thanks
Jim


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## jim smarr (May 21, 2004)

Mike- here is a very short response in red. I am busy but could not allow the statements to go unanswered. 





Looks like a post that would be written at midnight! Talk about history being re-written. CCA was a invited to the meeting maybe not by who you were talking to but by another major party that was present and felt it was important to have the largest most influential saltwater conservation group in the state present. Care to tell us how the conversation went the next day when Judge Mills called you because you came on this very board and said that you provided all of the questions to him making him look like no more than a RFA mindless robot? 

Judge Mills was the man in charge of who was invited. He was not pleased when CCA 
Walked in as a "GUEST". He had a few choice words for the man that brought Robbie into the meeting. He was on a hot mike so everyone heard the Judge explain his disgust of sereral isssues with the young man. The Judge instructed the young man to sit down near the Judge. Robbie quietly moved to the back of the room. He did not have any input. 

Judge Mills is not a mindless Robot and would be offended by your reference as such.
I asked Judge Mills to ask two questions and he did about ownership and the fly-over picture response as far as that determination of abnormal and criminal. He got the responses on the record for everyone to hear in that room. Judge Mills and Todd Hunter asked many other questions for hours of the Agencies. You are off base here with your comment.



You keeping CCA out of your diatribes sure was nice while it lasted how about sticking to what the RFA has done in the past(which is not much in Texas)

We have always worked hard to stop insane plans that would have been not good for Recreational Anglers. I know where you guys were on these issues.

Drift Fishing Only in the Bays
No Live Bait
Fed Regs In Texas Territorial Waters-ie no 12 month red snapper season
No fishing zones
Match all Fed Regs in Texas Territorial Waters- we lost all but red snapper
Catch Shares


 and what they are planning to do in the future. 

Continue to neutralize insane proposals that would adversely affect Recreational Anglers.

Push for opening Cedar Bayou and Vinson's Slough 300 feet wide according to the preferred option in Federal Court.

Push for Criminal Charges over CB/VS.

Insert Flexibility in the Magnuson Act.






By the way I'm still waiting on some membership numbers, National and Texas if you don't mind.

Large enough to effect major changes! Lol If "The STAR" was outlawed we would be about the same on a State level. Our membership join to fight for their fishing rights and are solid members not lotto followers.




 "God bless John P. "Jack" Cowan, a true conservationist and artist extraordinary." I will agree with you on that point and it was a little before my time but you and I both know the reason for the riff that brought up the whole who got things done way back when. 

I know the truth. Jack was the man with his son in law Rep. Joe Allen. End of Story.

I have my thoughts on the subject and we will have to agree to disagree on it.

Mike


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## Shallow Sport68 (Oct 14, 2008)

Wheres that picture of a man beating a dead horse?hwell:


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## Gilbert (May 25, 2004)

Go CCA, join RFA today, NRA needs your money.


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## Shallow Sport68 (Oct 14, 2008)

Gilbert said:


> Go CCA, join RFA today, NRA needs your money.


LULAC TOO!!! oh wait......wrong site.h:


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## Shallow Sport68 (Oct 14, 2008)

SAND IS GONNA FLY!!!!!!:rotfl: awwww!!
Watch it Jim don't get sand on your bowtie.....

DOT AAAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!


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## jim smarr (May 21, 2004)

*Come to Rockport- we have the dead horse*



Shallow Sport68 said:


> Wheres that picture of a man beating a dead horse?hwell:


Dead Bays, Dead Cranes , Dead Fishermen, Dead Grass and Lakes on St Joseph Island and there is your dead horse. LOL

Come to Rockport and go home without fish or your life in the Summer or in the Winter just a few fish. Anyone who says fishing in Rockport has not crashed is working for the Government. TPWD did a recent gillnet survey. The results were so bad the denied they did one. There is a copy in Rockport that I have seen. They had areas with no-zero- nada- fish caught. TPWD denies they did the survey. How about that?

You guys are special once someone mentions cold hard facts you attack. lol


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## gater (May 25, 2004)

*Jim Smarr*

I read just fine, just trying to make sense out of what you said. You really can't be for real with those two comments. Gater


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## jim smarr (May 21, 2004)

*TPWD Report on the importance of Coastal Passes*

Here is one I mentioned. The other is 51 pages. Some of us understand the importance of open historical natural fish passes. Data on sportfish using the passes is as impressive if not more so.


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## Tarponchaser (May 25, 2005)

I am older than almost all of you and have seen a lot. The following are a few observations:

All passes are good... they die because of lack of water pressure ... we will never be able to restore freshwater inflow due to rising population ...
The Aransas Channel and the Matagorda Channel have reduced the flow to where any others are not needed to move the water to and fro.

..Both are much wider and much deeper than necessary for rec or comm. traffic.... could they be made more shallow to force pressure back to other passes?? Schlitter Bond might want the lease on the channels but that is just another source of income.

I had rather fish Ceday Bayou than any place on the Coast... it can be the absolute best.... I have heard many stories about Basses closing drainages/Vincent Slough.... don't actually know the facts... but as Vincent Slough reaches South several miles perhaps it picks up enough water pressure that would now go to the Aransas Channel to help keep the pass open. I do remember that it was deeper across the Slough entrance than the rest of the Bayou.

I could not beleive the stupidity of saying that the whooping cranes that starved were not in any way due to Cedar being closed... said that they do not eat Blue crabs... I bet they would if they were there.

CCA ... good... not perfect....monies spent on college scholarships are not near what claimed due to use of annuites ..... the thing that makes me the most "hot" is the many young guides that bash CCA ... not understanding that they would have no job without CCA... they say that was a long time ago.... well ok... they still would not have a job.

Crabtraps... seems that I am the only one concerned about the huge numbers of these... these crabs are a big part of the foundation of the food base for many spieces... reds... drum... even tarpon.

Crokers... I hve seen thousands of huge trophy trout dead after a freeze .... plus many in red tide...and I have seen many happy- pictures of uninexperiencesed men, women, and children with trout caught on croakers... which is better?

Trout are a re-newal resource that must be managed... the problem is like all others .... rising population...people and guides

Politicans.... bad...give sweet deals to commerical interests over the much larger numbers and money generated by recrelational fishermen... wonder why?????...

TC

PS... Salty, I don't use croakers and don't have necessary paperwork to get dynimite... any other suggestions before they too are outlawed?


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## SolarScreenGuy (Aug 15, 2005)

Tarponchaser said:


> I am older than almost all of you and have seen a lot. The following are a few observations:
> 
> All passes are good... they die because of lack of water pressure ... we will never be able to restore freshwater inflow due to rising population ...
> The Aransas Channel and the Matagorda Channel have reduced the flow to where any others are not needed to move the water to and fro.
> ...


Weedless gold spoons, topwaters,and various soft plastics will work purty good,provided that there are any fish left to be caught. Regarding Cedar Bayou-Vinson Slough, I believe Jim Smarr pretty well covered the facts on that one. Freezes? It's been a long time since the last killer freeze. We better all be praying we don't get one before the pass is re-established. CCA? Well meaning members should unite and re-direct the leadership because it no longer represents the best interests of the recreational fishermen. You know, kind of like Obama, Reid, Pelosi and other fine examples who should be replaced. Crabtraps? We probably won't have to worry about them after the next "Cleanup". Only a fool would re-set and bait traps in that area. Still pluggin'-Old Salty


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