# WB getting ready



## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

The big whites(16+ inches) are getting ready to rumble. They are full of eggs as you can see below. They are also on an eating binge, probably part of the getting ready routine. My question is if the current low water continues, where do you think they will spawn...on wind blown points, up the river, creeks?


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## Danny O (Apr 14, 2010)

Those are some big ole gals! Nice catch!


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## Sunbeam (Feb 24, 2009)

As far up the streams as they can go. The whites in Foss Lake in western OK run up the Wa****a river to the point where you can actually jump across it.
I have seen them in the North Concho river in water so shallow their dorsal fin was constantly out of water.
Right now even in this extreme drought we are still getting a slug down river every 10 days or so. There is a 1000cfs slug about 60 hours in duration approaching the Lock and Dam tomorrow.
The outfall from the treatment plants is enough current to carry their eggs until they attach.
I'll bet a few are as far up as Riverside by now.


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## cajunasian (Mar 7, 2007)

wow...I'll be ready this year.


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## Danny O (Apr 14, 2010)

Super display Meadowlark! Big O fat WB!


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## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

Great ice chest!


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## johnmyjohn (Aug 6, 2006)

I don't know about the lake spawn but I'm just guessing the low river flow has a lot of them already past Riverside. WB naturely like moving water and the gates almost closed all year had them looking for moving water and that would be there. I still believe the good crop from the last couple of years is going to produce big up river this year, less current to fight. I also think because the lack of rain and run off the forage in the upper river will be thin. This will make the WB bite an empty hook, too bad the shad make the same run after the WB.


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## shadslinger (Aug 21, 2005)

My bet is the river will be hot fishing and the L&D will be scorching, there are always some white bass that stay and spawn on wind blown points in the lake.

The creeks,... it would take a miracle at this point it seems to have enough rain to make that happen.


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## Bluiis (Aug 20, 2005)

*Exception*

Seems that there is always an exception and was wondering why that might be. I just got back from fishing for Whites and Hybrids at Richland Chambers.
The mass population is hold up only one half mile in front of the Dam. The fishing is the same as fishing around Pine Island in the summer. We used jigs and never trolled. Seems that RC really does not have a winter slow down or mass migration during the winter. The guide there says that the whites spawn on the sides of sandy humps and islands. RC is almost eight feet low and you must look out for submerged islands.

Here is a question for the LL Brain Trust. What is your ball park guess as to the percent of the WB/Striper population remaining below the 190 bridge during the winter month.


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

Bluiis said:


> Seems that there is always an exception and was wondering why that might be. ...
> Here is a question for the LL Brain Trust. What is your ball park guess as to the percent of the WB/Striper population remaining below the 190 bridge during the winter month.


Excellent question, Bluiis.

From reading many posts on here over the years, I'd guess the "LL Brain Trust" would say a high % of them leave the lake and the fishing for them in the main lake is about over at the end of summer. I don't share that view, not at all. Some of the very best fishing for whites (and stripers) for me has been fall and winter in the main lake.

The answer to your question is very complex and varies from year to year. No one knows the exact answer. Water flows down the Trinity are a huge factor in the answer. Big water flows = more fish up the river/creeks and also more fish washed out of the lake through the dam. The numbers of fish washed out of the lake can be very significant, much higher than commonly thought. On the other hand, normal/low water flows= significantly less fish washed out of the main lake and also likely less fish going up the river.

It is very difficult to assess and compare what is happening in the 90,000 acres of the main lake vs what is going on in the river system. The reports of big catches of white bass at certain times out of the river do not at all prove the generally held belief that the fish all leave the main lake after summer ends. The river system is a relatively small concentrated area when compared to the 90,000 surface acres of the main lake. The Lock & Dam for example wouldn't even make a ripple on any part of the lake if you dumped all its water there at any given time.

How many white bass would be in Livingston at the end of a summer? Remember that one single mature female white bass can release 1 million eggs during the spawn. That's one fish. They are extremely prolific. A very conservative estimate for the number of whites in the main lake at end of summer might be about 100 per acre or over 9 million white bass. To look at extremes, if it were 1000 per acre, then we would have 90 million white bass in the lake.

What if say 50% of the white bass left the main lake for the river system on a "typical year", whatever that is? That would mean that literally millions of fish would join the resident populations in the river system. They would be relatively concentrated for anglers to catch. Under that scenario, it could easily appear to most anglers that "all the white bass" have left the lake....dumping millions into a small area greatly magnifies the effects. On the other hand, a 50% reduction out of the main lake might appear to some that the whites were all gone when in fact, millions remain. Some spots might not have many or very few whites, while others may be packed with them. 90,000 acres is a lot of water.

To look at extremes, what if say 90 to 100% of the whites left the main lake for the river system? The result would be something akin to the Alaska salmon migration with the river wall to wall with whites and the creeks stacked up with them everywhere, not just in a few prime spots, e.g. L&D,, Bedias, etc. The main lake would virtually be devoid of white bass, something which I can say categorically has not happened in recent years.

I don't know the answer to your question, but believe that on normal/low flow years; Livingston is more like RC (and in fact also Cedar Creek) than it is different.


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## BrandonH (Oct 15, 2006)

Meadowlark said:


> Excellent question, Bluiis.
> 
> From reading many posts on here over the years, I'd guess the "LL Brain Trust" would say a high % of them leave the lake and the fishing for them in the main lake is about over at the end of summer. I don't share that view, not at all. Some of the very best fishing for whites (and stripers) for me has been fall and winter in the main lake.
> 
> ...


I have a headache...just kidding there's some serious thought put into your post. My question is at what point does the wb fishing around the Riverside area start to heat up? My Dad and I were late last year, so I'm trying to get an idea on timeframe.

Brandon


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## Bluiis (Aug 20, 2005)

*Thank you ML*

Thank you Meadowlark for your insight. This paragraph especially makes a lot of sense, and should alter the notion that some hold that all the WB are up stream from LL in the winter.

"To look at extremes, what if say 90 to 100% of the whites left the main lake for the river system? The result would be something akin to the Alaska salmon migration with the river wall to wall with whites and the creeks stacked up with them everywhere, not just in a few prime spots, e.g. L&D,, Bedias, etc. The main lake would virtually be devoid of white bass, something which I can say categorically has not happened in recent years".

Maybe that train of thought came about by assumption and thus very few of the summer WB fisherman even give the lower lake a respectable try during the winter.

I am leaving in the morning for 3 days at Falcon Lake. Yes, I will be mainly fishing for LMB, but even though the local wisdom on the lake says that all of the White Bass have been fished out, I am going to use my WB knowledge learned from you guys to try and prove the local Falcon guys wrong. My theory on White Bass is like that of wild hogs -- it is impossible to get rid of all of them.


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## Danny O (Apr 14, 2010)

Bluiis said:


> What is your ball park guess as to the percent of the WB/Striper population remaining below the 190 bridge during the winter month.


Whites 76.43%
Stripers 89.17%

Next?


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

Danny O said:


> Whites 76.43%
> Stripers 89.17%
> 
> Next?


Ahhh...stripers, now there is something I really like to talk about....and promise not to give anyone a headache.

I think at any given time from about late Dec. to early March, the LL stripers can be all over the map. They can easily travel over 100 miles in a day and I believe on occasions they do just that moving way up the river and back possibly several times during a season. I've read of studies where they tagged striper with tracking device and it did just that, went way up river and then back to the dam on a certain lake all within a matter of very short time...and then repeated it.

Some empirical evidence, I caught stripers last winter in the main lake all the way up until the big cold snap hit in early Feb. My log shows stripers in main lake until then. After that, they flat disappeared from the main lake, and I searched very hard for them. By the first week in March, they were back in big numbers. I'm currently on a streak of 20 consecutive months of catching at least one striper on Livingston in the main lake...ok, that's getting close to headache, sorrry.


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## wwind3 (Sep 30, 2009)

No headaches here yet---great reporting. I'm a hit and miss summertime striper guy---luv the schooling action. How does the pattern change during the winter months? Do you go to the 15 dollar deep divers with jig trailers or maybe the plastic divers. I have considered installing a downrigger on my pontoon boat---think that is a good idea? Again--really appreciate your reporting during the year.


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

Bluiis said:


> I am leaving in the morning for 3 days at Falcon Lake. Yes, I will be mainly fishing for LMB, but even though the local wisdom on the lake says that all of the White Bass have been fished out, I am going to use my WB knowledge learned from you guys to try and prove the local Falcon guys wrong. My theory on White Bass is like that of wild hogs -- it is impossible to get rid of all of them.


LOL...and I agree with you. I know a lot of LMB anglers are trying very hard to catch them all out of Lake Fork. They've had tournaments that pay a "bounty" on them...but every indication is that the population there is only growing. I seriously doubt Falcon was fished out, but Nature may have played one of her cards and took them all out...far more powerful than any of us mere anglers.

Let us know what you find.


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

wwind3 said:


> No headaches here yet---great reporting. I'm a hit and miss summertime striper guy---luv the schooling action. How does the pattern change during the winter months? Do you go to the 15 dollar deep divers with jig trailers or maybe the plastic divers. I have considered installing a downrigger on my pontoon boat---think that is a good idea? Again--really appreciate your reporting during the year.


Thank you for your remarks. My opinion would be no the downrigger isn't worth it for "hit and miss" fishing on Livingston. First, the lake is relatively shallow and second you can reach the depths of any striper with deep divers. In winter when water temps go 50 deg and below, the techniques of "deadsticking" and "strolling" come into play and I'm still trying to master them and adapt them to Livingston stripers.

Winter mornings out on the big lake are flat awesome...normally some fog, loons calling and fishing, and an erie solitude that I can only describe as religious.


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## Coby (Jul 16, 2008)

Alright LL braintrust feel free to chime in on this WB question: Parents just bought a house on whiterock in westwood shores. With water levels as they are I can literally walk in back of house on the lakebed and get to the creek. When is the best time for me and my 4 year old to go out there and catch WB? What do I need to look for temp wise? What structure should I fish? Should I get minnows or just speck rigs/ little georges/ road runners? Thanks


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## Kickapoo Duke (May 15, 2010)

Coby, wouldn't there be some crappie up there about now?


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

BrandonH said:


> I have a headache...just kidding there's some serious thought put into your post. My question is at what point does the wb fishing around the Riverside area start to heat up? My Dad and I were late last year, so I'm trying to get an idea on timeframe.
> 
> Brandon


Brandon it mostly depends on water flows and water temps...three years ago the WB were going berserk just below Riverside first week in January. The best way is to get out there and try it and beat the crowds. By the time the bragging starts, there will be boats all over that section of the river.

Watch the flows...Sunbeam is great about posting heads-up on here on changing water conditions.


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## shadslinger (Aug 21, 2005)

Coby, those WRC white bass have been hard to figure out the past few years, they have not followed their usual pattern.
In years past they would often show up as soon as late November, they were almost always there in late December.
In the more recent past they have not been very willing to bite due to muddy water from upstream logging and therefore it's very hard to tell when they are there.

Last year after crappie fishing with a couple one day in November I checked it out for white bass after the trip and caught a limit in a short time of big male fish, a couple of trips I caught them and then they were gone. It seemed for the rest of the year, i did hear some reports of catches of them, but not big runs.

I have always done well with spec rigs/rattle traps/rooster tails, and curly grubs/jig heads on white rock. Sometimes they want it crawling at a snails pace and sometime jerked through the water fast.

Give them a try when you are there and don't be surprised if they already there.
White rock white bass seem to be on the move a lot for creek spawning white bass.
Some days they are at one end of the creek, and a couple of days later at the other.

A blue back chrome rattle trap in all sizes has forever been a good bait for white bass on WRC.


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## BrandonH (Oct 15, 2006)

Meadowlark said:


> Brandon it mostly depends on water flows and water temps...three years ago the WB were going berserk just below Riverside first week in January. The best way is to get out there and try it and beat the crowds. By the time the bragging starts, there will be boats all over that section of the river.
> 
> Watch the flows...Sunbeam is great about posting heads-up on here on changing water conditions.


Thanks for the info...I'll keep and eye on it and try to get there in time this year. I've heard how bad the crowds get, and after trolling PI one time this year I discovered that crowds trolling wasn't my cup of tea.


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## RAYSOR (Apr 26, 2007)

Meadowlark said:


> Excellent question, Bluiis.
> 
> From reading many posts on here over the years, I'd guess the "LL Brain Trust" would say a high % of them leave the lake and the fishing for them in the main lake is about over at the end of summer. I don't share that view, not at all. Some of the very best fishing for whites (and stripers) for me has been fall and winter in the main lake.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the great info, always enjoy reading your knowledge and thought you put into your posts.


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