# Good Golly Miss Molly!!!!



## Sunbeam (Feb 24, 2009)

The water coming out of Richland Chambers has reached the Oakwood, TX, gauge. It is blended with the 30,000 cfs coming down from Dallas.
The river flow at that gauge has gone from 20,000 cfs at midnight last night to 80,000+ cfs at 6 PM today. The gauge reading is climbing like my credit card debt.
This could crest well above 100,000 cfs. That would be well above the record flow on the upper river since the dam was built.
The engineers say the dam gates can handle twice the flood waters from a thousand year storm. I assume one of them has been around thousand years to know or maybe they are just guessing.
I do not mean to indicate this is a thousand year event but I will say that when that big rise reaches the lake TRA will be busy calculating and running gate hoist for a while. It should be very interesting in the stilling basin. Also those folks down river are going to be be hunting high ground again.
Don't go rushing down there with the long rods until it starts receeding
Stay tuned.


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## brucevannguyen (Oct 21, 2012)

Ok so basically LL is gonna get another good flush. Lake is gonna mudied up.More fish is gonna get flush down the river even a lot of those new baby whites too ?


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## CarolinaPartimer (Mar 22, 2013)

Trying to see a bright side, I keep hoping to get some hyrbrids from up north coming this way.


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## shadslinger (Aug 21, 2005)

Crud! That's just too much!


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## rglide09 (Mar 21, 2012)

Hopefully the little white bass will hug the bottom and stay in the lake! The shad are back and will be a shame if we loose them again..


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## fishinganimal (Mar 30, 2006)

Wow. Not good.


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## Sunbeam (Feb 24, 2009)

Good news and bad news.
The good news is the rise below Dallas has crested at 30,000 cfs and is now receding. Also the local creek run off is not very large.
The bad news is the gauge at Trinidad below the Richland Creek confluence crossed the 100.000 cfs mark this morning. It looks like it will crest at 125,000 cfs about wed. afternoon assume there is no increase in the RC discharge. 

Someone mentioned the RC hybrids. Every thing I have read about them is how similar they are to the white bass in feeding, schooling action and life span. I just wonder if they also will resist being sweep through the gates like most fish or if they are willingly drawn to the down stream current like a mature striper. I do hope RC gets to share some of their hybrids with us.


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## shadslinger (Aug 21, 2005)

Back in the 80s and 90s a lot of hybrids were caught below the dam.
Since I only fished there in those days I was used to catching often.
They did seem to appear in waves and would not always be there.
So I suppose they were washed down from upriver or maybe a few were the result of some being born in the soup of milt and roe of spawning whites bass and stripers trying to.
They were certainly hard hitting and fighting fish.
And I relished the timed they were present.
The first year I fished the lake after buying The Mighty Red-Fin(2000) I happen on a school on the south end.
We caught limits of 6 to 10 # hybrids almost every day for about 6 days running.
I look in that spot every year in August for them, but have never run across a school of the that size again.


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## dbullard (Feb 13, 2008)

Just when I was about to hit the Bird roost. 
Now all the bird poop and regurgetated
Shad will be washed away before the blue cat 
Can stack up.


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## fishinganimal (Mar 30, 2006)

Crockett taking off like a rocket!


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## BKT (Sep 27, 2013)

Borrowed from Lock n dams facebook page


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## Sunbeam (Feb 24, 2009)

It appears that the Trinidad gauge in out of calibration. There is an asterix on the chart indicating the actual flow in a little over 95,000 cfs. Not the 100,000 shown this morning.
Whether we have 95K or 100K that is one clapload of water.

Speaking of Hybrids......here is a rather long but extremely interesting article by TP&W about hybrids and the special problems in producing them.
http://www.tpwmagazine.com/archive/2014/mar/ed_3_hybridbass/index.phtml


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## shadslinger (Aug 21, 2005)

Very good read, thanks Sunbeam.
It sure takes a lot of skill and effort to produce a hybrid. It shows how dedicated twpd is to keep our fisheries strong for anglers.


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## Sunbeam (Feb 24, 2009)

The leading edge of the rise is well pass the Lock n Dam. The lake is beginning in receive water since it has risen about 5 inches with a 11,000 cfs discharge.
It is time for TRA to start increasing the flow. I would expect 40,000+ cfs in the next day or so.
Any one planning a trip to the stilling basin needs to check the flow before travelling any distance.


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## Dirt Daddy (Sep 11, 2004)

thanks for posting that article Sunbeam !!!


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## Mattsfishin (Aug 23, 2009)

I am surprised that they have not increased the flow already today. Back when it was 64,000 cfs you could catch all the whites anyone wanted.


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## Northern fisherman (Sep 16, 2014)

It would be nice to have another go at it again for sure.


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## Bluiis (Aug 20, 2005)

*Update*

TRA just upped outflow to 13,000 CFS


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## dbullard (Feb 13, 2008)

More rain forcast for the weekend. 
The predication of a cold and wet winter may come true. 
Time to grunt , rattle and weez.


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## Little Mac (Apr 29, 2015)

Just read where they said the **** is expected to be opened to 65000 cfs. With river cresting @ Liberty @ 29.5' by late next week


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## SeaOx 230C (Aug 12, 2005)

dbullard said:


> More rain forcast for the weekend.
> The predication of a cold and wet winter may come true.
> Time to grunt , rattle and weez.


Probably no grunt rattle or weez for me this year so I guess I'll have to go fishing.


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## Sunbeam (Feb 24, 2009)

Flow at dam 18,000 cfs. The lake came up near 6" overnight.


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## saved (Feb 1, 2014)

At 11:52 A.M. LL right now is showing 5.76 inches above full pool with the Dam dumping 13,400 cfs. I am sure this is going to increase considerably over the next 24 hours.


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## fishinganimal (Mar 30, 2006)

I think it is 5.82 inches above full pool and 13,402cfs to be exact! LOL


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## Mattsfishin (Aug 23, 2009)

60,000 cfs @ Crockett and 66,000 cfs @ Oakwood. The lake is about to get hit with a big flow.


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## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

Maybe I am just easily amused, but enjoy watching levels and flows. There is no doubt about one thing .... the Corsicana Richland-Chambers area got hammered!


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## Chadgreen (Apr 11, 2014)

Whitebassfisher said:


> Maybe I am just easily amused, but enjoy watching levels and flows. There is no doubt about one thing .... the Corsicana Richland-Chambers area got hammered!


^^^ture. 
I spent the evening pulling friends and hell even ppl I didn't no out of front yards and ditches.


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## Sac-a-lait Trey (Jun 10, 2015)

Up to 22,000 cfs now, per http://www.trinityra.org/lakeriverdata.htm

Who knew that watching these levels would be so interesting?

I canâ€™t help but imagine that it sounds like a cattle auction inside the TRA office today (and will continue that way for a while):

â€œ12,000 cfs, now 12,000, go 14,000. I have 14,000, give me 16. I have 16, go 18,000. Give me 18, 18, I have 18, how â€˜bout 20? 20, now 20, go 22,000â€¦â€


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## markbrumbaugh (Jul 13, 2010)

Come on guys...open the gates!
I can tell you what they are saying in the TRA office..."YOU go open the gates, I did it last week,...no, YOU go open the gates, I have tonight off, no, lets call Frank...Frank is on vacation today. How about Sam? I'm not calling Sam.


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## Flyingvranch (Mar 10, 2014)

One time many years ago I got a personal tour of the Lake Conroe dam. We went inside a small building over one of the gates. There was a small motor connected to a large gearbox assembly. Next to it was a small push button. I pushed it and the whole gate assembly shook underneath me and the gate started to open and a wall of water started rushing through making a small tidal wave downstream. I found it absolutely amazing that all of this was controlled by a small electric motor and a simple push button. I'm sure it's probably computer controlled by now. That motor was not much bigger than a five gallon bucket in size. The gate assembly shook like heck under our feet too!


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## lx22f/c (Jun 19, 2009)




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## Sunbeam (Feb 24, 2009)

Looks like TRA has a good handle on the recent rise. The flow at Crockett, Lock n Dam, will crest at 70,000 cfs today. The flow behind the crest is receding to a "moderate" 40,000 cfs coming out of RC reservoir.
We will see a large increase in flow through the dam in the next 24 hours. How much. Hard to say. At least 40,000 cfs minimum up to 60,000 cfs. It all depends how high TRA will want the lake level.

BTW there is a slight up tic on the Rosser Gauge below Dallas. There has not been any appreciable rain there so I will assume the powers that be are draining down some of the area lakes. Every drop they release will on;ly extend the good fishing flow through LL dam.


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## hd_gresham (Aug 20, 2015)

What is the magic number to look for when the white bass start biting below the dam again? Is 64,000 CDs correct?


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## hd_gresham (Aug 20, 2015)

Sorry, I meant 64,000 cfm. Auto correct got me again.


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## SeaOx 230C (Aug 12, 2005)

No magic number really. They are there or close by its all a matter of a stable pattern. Quick changes in flow causes changes in th bite
It stirs things up including the bait. It takes a bit for it to settle back down. Seem to me the up swings in flow are fast and close together.


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## markbrumbaugh (Jul 13, 2010)

Sunbeam said:


> Looks like TRA has a good handle on the recent rise. The flow at Crockett, Lock n Dam, will crest at 70,000 cfs today. The flow behind the crest is receding to a "moderate" 40,000 cfs coming out of RC reservoir.
> We will see a large increase in flow through the dam in the next 24 hours. How much. Hard to say. At least 40,000 cfs minimum up to 60,000 cfs. It all depends how high TRA will want the lake level.
> 
> BTW there is a slight up tic on the Rosser Gauge below Dallas. There has not been any appreciable rain there so I will assume the powers that be are draining down some of the area lakes. Every drop they release will on;ly extend the good fishing flow through LL dam.


Sunbeam, why does TRA want anything over 131 feet? Especially this time o year. When it gets to 133 feet or so, the slightest wind causes a lot of bulkhead and dock damage. I thought they were supposed to match the flow of the river?


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

The river is almost out just above Bedias Creek. I was there today.


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## kgobble (Aug 8, 2011)

Here in coby cove near the white rock bridge on 356, we have gained 12 inches of chocolate milk. Part wind pushing but the water is coming in fast. 6 inches of bulkhead left to cover.

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## Sunbeam (Feb 24, 2009)

Mark, As a water front property owner you know that TRA actually own the land surrounding the lake up to the 135.0 elevation. That four feet above the 131.0 elevation is their surge tank to catch the sudden or catastrophic flood conditions that can occur. 

In the early years as a marina operator I attended many meetings with TRA. In those days they were very hard core. They made it clear that their job was to capture water to provide the industries on the Houston ship channel all of industrial water they needed. The water supply was to stop the subsidence caused by so many deep water wells on the channel and Baytown.

In those meeting they were blunt in saying they did not care about our businesses or water front homes. We bought the property knowing the risk and it was our responsibility to handle flooding caused by rising water or wind. They flooded my camp ground and screened shelters at least three times the year after the lake filled.

I had one TRA VP tell me face to face that he did not care if anyone ever caught another fish from "his" lake. He did not run a fishing resort.

Thank goodness over the years TRA has mellowed quite a bit. They are still very strict about water front sewer pollution, proper bulkhead construction and trying not to flood the lower river bottom is it can be avoided. They do a reasonably good job maintaining free parks and launch ramps, providing buoys around restricted danger zones and working with TP&W.
But they still must operate the dam to keep it safe from floods so consequently they still hold the trump card to vary the lake level to accomplish their mission.


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## Reel Time (Oct 6, 2009)

Well said.



Sunbeam said:


> Mark, As a water front property owner you know that TRA actually own the land surrounding the lake up to the 135.0 elevation. That four feet above the 131.0 elevation is their surge tank to catch the sudden or catastrophic flood conditions that can occur.
> 
> In the early years as a marina operator I attended many meetings with TRA. In those days they were very hard core. They made it clear that their job was to capture water to provide the industries on the Houston ship channel all of industrial water they needed. The water supply was to stop the subsidence caused by so many deep water wells on the channel and Baytown.
> 
> ...


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## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

Another huge concern, as is all real estate ... location location location. Those waterfront lots with the beautiful 180Â° views for miles look great on some days. But there are conditions when it would be suicide to try to get your boat in a lift! I don't think the Beacon Bay Marina boat ramp location is an accident. In fact I bet much of that nook was done with a bulldozer by a forward thinking person during the planning stages of the lake.

Generating historical level trend graphs tells me the TRA does pretty well.


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## SeaOx 230C (Aug 12, 2005)

Some.of the same type concerns but in reverse here on the lower Trinity. Those that live in the bottom think TRA only cares about the "rich" folks that live on the lake. 

Of course that's hog wash, TRA has a job to do and they do the best they can with the technology available. They do not protect one at the expense of the other.

They try to minimize flooding on the lake and below the lake while staying within their guidelines.


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## pYr8 (Apr 17, 2012)

I'm hoping to get out & fish the creeks & backwaters as soon as things settle a little & I get the ignition fixed on the boat. Black bass on the shad should be on like donkey kong


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## markbrumbaugh (Jul 13, 2010)

I used to ask TRA, why do don't ramp up the flow, dropping the lake level, ahead of these big slugs. I usually got one of two answers...
They are not a flood control lake; they could empty the lake and the amount of water coming down would refill the lake in a day, not making any difference.
I have never done tha math to check the second reason out, but it has always seemed to me that both the up and downstream would benefit from a longer and slower release, than waiting for the slug to put the water level up in the 133 range.
BTW...Sunbeam is right, they have a flood easement to 135 feet if I remember correctly. Unfortunately, that will get most docks if we have any wind, but it is what it is, and I accept that.
Most of my dock is at 134 feet, and since I started leaving 1 inch gaps, I rarely lose those boards....even though I joke about TRA using my dock boards as their gauge on when to let out more water.


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## GaryI (Mar 18, 2015)

Mark, your post has got me thinking about how much water LL can retain.

So, some simple math:

According to TRA, the lake surface area is 83,000 acres, which is 3.6 billion sq. ft. So, the lake can accommodate 1 ft of vertical water change through a volume change of 3.6 billion ft3. Over a period of 1 day, this would require a delta flow (difference between input and output) into the lake of about 42,000 cfs. So now, for example, if the outflow is kept constant at the current rate of about 44,000 cfs at the dam, the lake could accommodate a slug of inflow at 86,000 cfs over 2 days by rising 2 ft. So it seems to me that it would make sense to manipulate the lake level as you said below IF the slug of incoming water is of short duration (a day or 2). But if it is a longer duration high flow event, the lake doesn't have enough volume to have that much of an impact.

I don't know if the simplistic logic above is on the right track, but I am sure that Sunbeam and others can help clarify.


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## markbrumbaugh (Jul 13, 2010)

GaryI said:


> Mark, your post has got me thinking about how much water LL can retain.
> 
> So, some simple math:
> 
> ...


Makes sense to me and agrees with TRA.


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## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

MANY years ago I visited in person at the TRA there by the dam. They were really nice and I enjoyed their hospitality. This was even way before 911 so I don't know what visitation changes may have happened. But, at that time they indicated to me that the TRA uses MANY measuring points in the whole river shed to determine the gate changes. I firmly believe they meant all the points on the USGS site. They did not use the term "complicated computer program" to make these changes, but they certainly indicated the gate changes are not just a whim either. Considering the area of the Trinity river shed and the number of people in it, I doubt they can make everyone happy.


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## Csafisher (Nov 16, 2010)

Has anyone seen the water level at riverside?

Edit: saw the riverside thread. Haha


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## SeaOx 230C (Aug 12, 2005)

You have to keep in mind Mother Nature is involved also. As soon as they tried to predict a rise and draw the lake down the weather would do something different than predicted. The rain wouldn't pan out as expected and now the lake is low. And some don't like that. If they hold it back so that it doesn't flood down river so bad, the Lake gets high and some don't like that.

I think that is why they do not try to predict what the water is going to do, they try to match what the river *is actually* doing and let it flow as naturally as they can, within the set Lake level guidelines.

I have always thought it pretty neat how you can follow a slug of water all the way from Dallas to Trinity Bay. There it is just below Dallas, now its at Crockett, now its in the lake, there it goes thru the dam. Look now that same water is at Liberty, then it hits the bay and heads for parts unknown.


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## markbrumbaugh (Jul 13, 2010)

SeaOx 230C said:


> You have to keep in mind Mother Nature is involved also. As soon as they tried to predict a rise and draw the lake down the weather would do something different than predicted. The rain wouldn't pan out as expected and now the lake is low. And some don't like that. If they hold it back so that it doesn't flood down river so bad, the Lake gets high and some don't like that.
> 
> I think that is why they do not try to predict what the water is going to do, they try to match what the river *is actually* doing and let it flow as naturally as they can, within the set Lake level guidelines.
> 
> I have always thought it pretty neat how you can follow a slug of water all the way from Dallas to Trinity Bay. There it is just below Dallas, now its at Crockett, now its in the lake, there it goes thru the dam. Look now that same water is at Liberty, then it hits the bay and heads for parts unknown.


There is no risk to lower the level if sufficient water to refill it, is already on the way. Not much chance it will have anyplace else to go is there. I definitely would not lower it if the rain hadn't already fallen....that isn't what I meant at all. In fact its a good idea by my thinking to go into the spring a little on the high side because we all have seen what a dry summer will do to the water level.


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## Sunbeam (Feb 24, 2009)

True about Mother Nature. She runs the river system and only tolerates the dam.
Two days ago the flow at Rosser below Dallas was at 2000 cfs and receding fast. Poof! Forty eight hours later and the flow at that point is cresting near 30,000 cfs.
We now have a slug in the upper river. lower water 40 miles south then another slug flowing out of RC lake. Running the dam and metering water must be like herding cats.


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## saved (Feb 1, 2014)

All this is such a waste. For years I have been trying to get our representatives to build water ways so this water can be pumped into other lakes and reservoirs for dry times instead of just allowing it all to run off into the gulf.


it would do at least two things. One it would mean less water downstream to flood people out and the other is to be a safety net during drought as well as extra water for the farmers.


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## shadslinger (Aug 21, 2005)

Yall warm those fish up for me, I have been out of town three weeks now and I'm starting to get the heebies from no fishing. I should be back for a few days before coming back up to ft worth for a little while longer. And I need to wet a hook, to maintain sanity.
Go up to the creek head waters with some shad and let me know how the cat fish are biting.
Dbullard you know where to go.


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## SeaOx 230C (Aug 12, 2005)

SS I am planning to hit the dam as soon as my new shift cables come in. I have not been in a month. Chompin at the bit!!!!!!

I had to do my water pump and discovered some issues. Two stripped out lower unit mounting bolt holes, had to HeliCoil those. Had been having trouble shifting to reverse found that I need two new bushings in my shift linkage to take up the slop. While messing with that found that my shift cable are about to bust the jacket.

Come on UPS hurry up and get my cable to me I need to go fish!!!!


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## GaryI (Mar 18, 2015)

Fishing mid lake continues to be tough. Lots of debris and muddy water. Fished the roadbed yesterday but had to leave when I got close to the main channel. Too many logs for my comfort zone. Water temp is 75 degrees. Caught a few white bass but that was it. I probably should just focus on catfish for now. 

SS, when you come back, make sure you bring the fish back with you!


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## shadslinger (Aug 21, 2005)

Seaox 230c I feel your pain!
And who knows maybe some fish will be headed down the trinity as I drive home.
Maybe only carp left by now, lol!


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## GaryI (Mar 18, 2015)

Finally found some white bass today. Wind is from the east, so the east side mid lake had no debris and clearer water. Was surprised to find them shallow - about 8 ft.


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## SeaOx 230C (Aug 12, 2005)

Great report Gary!!! Good reminder to consider the wind direction and how it affects water clarity.


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