# School me on Bearings



## Doubleover (Jul 7, 2005)

I am going to replace my bearing in my curado cu-200 reel. I have heard a lot about abec-5, abec-7, and ceramic. What is the difference between them? Is abec an industry code and there a lot of different manufacutes? Or does each letter stand for something like inserts for tooling? Thanks for all your help


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## Bantam1 (Jun 26, 2007)

ABEC is an industry code for ratings I believe. The number after is what you want to pay attention to. I use the ABEC 5 bearings. They offer a balance of performance and durability. They also are easy to maintain. Add a drop of light oil every once in a while and that's it. 


I have not used the ABEC 7 bearings in a long time. To be honest with you I didn't notice that much of a difference for the money I spent. 

Ceramic bearings is something I have not really used. From what I have seen while working in repair is that they are little louder than stainless. Typically ceramic bearings are also designed to run dry. Oil will allow dirt to stick to the bearings and could cause premature failure. Some people have had great luck with these bearings too. 

I watched the maintenance guy that repaired an alignement rack for cars several times. He would replace the ceramic bearings in the turning plates all the time. Someone would spray oil or WD40 on the turning plates because they weren't turning smoothly. Turned out that the oil made it worse and destroyed the bearings. All we were supposed to do was spray the turning plates with compressed air to blow the dust out. This made me nervous using these bearings in a fishing environment.


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## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

Probably just 1 of many places to find the specs:

http://www.pacamor.com/technical/abectolerances.ssi1.php

I noticed significant changes in the chart from 3 to 5, but not as much change from 5 to 7, which confirms Bantam's findings.


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## Doubleover (Jul 7, 2005)

Thanks, Bantam do you have the specs on the 3 bearing an old Curado CU-200 uses. I looked at Shimano.com and couldn't find that particular reel. I guess I am looking for Bore, od, and width.


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## Mike in Friendswood (May 21, 2004)

Bantam nailed it (as usual). I use ABEC 7 bearings only because I can get them for about the same price since I buy them in large certified lots. I cannot honestly tell the difference between ABEC5 and ABEC7.

As for ceramic bearings, I usually try to discourage folks form getting them. They are more than twice the cost, and they still have some SS, that can corrode in a saltwater environment over time if not maintained properly. For stricly freshwater applications, they are probably OK, since they should last longer.

What is really fun though, is replacing a worn set of stock bearings with a new set of ABEC7 bearings, and then putting that reel back in their hands. The differnce is amazing.

Mike


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## Bantam1 (Jun 26, 2007)

Dimensions for the BNT0194 bearing:


OD- 10mm
ID- 3mm
Thickness (width)- 4mm


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## Doubleover (Jul 7, 2005)

So all 3 bearings are the same size?


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## Bantam1 (Jun 26, 2007)

Only the spool shaft bearings located on either side plate. The bearing on the spool shaft is BNT0124. 


OD- 11mm
ID-5mm
Width- 4mm


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## Viking48 (Jan 24, 2006)

Doubleover said:


> I am going to replace my bearing in my curado cu-200 reel. I have heard a lot about abec-5, abec-7, and ceramic. What is the difference between them? Is abec an industry code and there a lot of different manufacutes? Or does each letter stand for something like inserts for tooling? Thanks for all your help


There was a thread about this a while back. ABEC represents tolerance standards for the boundary dimensions of a bearing and are designated as ABEC-1, ABEC -3, ABEC -5, ABEC -7 and ABEC -9 although most manufacturers have gone to ISO standards (same thing - different designations). There are only a few microns difference in the tolerance grades and ABEC - 7 and 9 are normally used in high precision equipment such as machine tools. Be careful of the manufacturer as there is a company named ABEC -7 and it has nothing to do with their quality. If you want to learn a whole lot more than you probably care to know take a look at
http://www.ntnamerica.com/pdf/2200/tolrance.pdf


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## tail-chaser (May 5, 2007)

*i like this topic*

I didn't know you could upgrade the bearings in shimanos. I have a curado 200 and I would like to put better bearings in it. It cast fine, but I wouldn't mind if it cast even better.

Should I get the better bearings?

How much do they cost?

where can I get them?


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## Bantam1 (Jun 26, 2007)

We offer ABEC 5 bearings. BNT0194A5 MSRP is $16.50 each. You can order the bearings by calling 877-577-0600. 


I heard a few others say they picked up the bearings at Academy and through our warranty centers. Matt K might also sell the bearings. He posts on this site as well.


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## Wolf6151 (Jun 13, 2005)

I bought a pair of the ABEC-7 bearings from Mike in Friendswood a little over a year ago and cleaned them up and put them in a Curado 200SF along with a drop of yellow Rocket Fuel on each bearing. Like Mike said, I noticed a significant difference between the ABEC-3 bearing using RemOil and the ABEC-7 bearings using Rocket Fuel. The reel is super smooth and casts much further. Mike I need to get with you and get 2 more pair of ABEC-7's if possible.


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## Life Aquatic (Oct 24, 2006)

I've used the ABEC 5, 7, and ceramic. I can say there is definitely a diminishing return - as price increases the performance does not proportionately follow.

Here is a good article on the subject. I can attest to experenicing similar results: http://heartlandtackleservice.com/ceramictest.stm

My best result was upgrading a Curado 200BSF with ceramic 7 and loading the reel with 15-lb Spiderwire Ultracast (4-lb dia mono eqiv). The braid allows for unbeleivable hooksets on a long line. Is it worth an extra $20 for five or more yards?

So far the ceramic has performed for a year without problems. About to break the reel down for a tuneup before trophy season.


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## Doubleover (Jul 7, 2005)

Where can you purchase the yellow rocket fuel everyone speaks of?


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## Mike in Friendswood (May 21, 2004)

I order it from Veal's in the UK. Cabela's carried it for a while, but I am not sure if they still do.

http://www.veals.co.uk/


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## SAK (May 21, 2004)

There is a place called Boca bearing where I get my bearings. Might be worth checking into...


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## Doubleover (Jul 7, 2005)

Well I recieved my ABEC 7 bearings yesterday and after installing them I was not that impressed with them. They were a lot louder than I expected. I may have just recieved a bad pair. I tried them with no oil, a little oil (less than a drop), and with a full drop. After I removed the oil from the bearings I would spin them on a pair of pliers. I noticed that one of them would vibarate a little as it was slowing down. Is the vibaration normal? Are ceramincs quieter than Stainless?


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## Life Aquatic (Oct 24, 2006)

I've tried Boca and Heartland for the ABEC 7, and Shimano for ABEC 5. Boca is the least expensive I've tried and the loudest. Heartland sells the TG Rocket bearings for the ceramic and I consider them the best for the purpose. Maybe because they are designed for fishing or maybe because they did a good job on marketing and I got sold. I do give them some credit for being a resource for tournament casting.

http://www.tgdevelopments.com/shop/index.php

Initially I had a similar concern about what you describe as a vibration. Even the ceramics exhibit this behavior. I rationalized this by considering even a tight tolerance such as ABEC 7 must have some play in it's dry (no oil) condition. TG states that any higher tolerance won't hold the proper amount of oil.

I'm not an engineer but more of a financial misfit by training. Being said financial misfit, I don't confess to know it all. But stay with me on this. If the bearing has some play and it is set into the frame of the reel and the spool shaft is held in alignement, the bearing will run true. The higher the tolerance the smoother it will run.

The vibration I notice happens when the bearing is free spinning while mounted on the tip of a small, wooden paintbrush handle. I'd describe the vibration more closely as the outer ring of the bearing wobbling on the race. There are probably some mechnical engineers out there cringing on my description right now.

The point being that when everything is assembled, this wobble should not happen and isn't a factor. What I'd expect to experince is smoother, faster operation as the tolerance increases.

The proof is in the pudding, as it is said. If its chocolate pudding I don't know. "The proof of the pudding is in the eating." It means that the true value or quality of something can only be judged when it's put to use.

I have a particular back lake I like to fish. The far side has a deep trough againt it. The bottom is two-foot deep mud that smells like primoridal soup - the stuff that could give rise to new life. So the game is to cast across and up againt the tall grass. Here, five feet makes all the difference. I can say the ceramics get me there when nothing else does.

Hope this helps and doesn't add confusion. Someone correct me if I missed the target.


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## Mike in Friendswood (May 21, 2004)

*From where?*



Doubleover said:


> Well I recieved my ABEC 7 bearings yesterday and after installing them I was not that impressed with them. They were a lot louder than I expected. I may have just recieved a bad pair. I tried them with no oil, a little oil (less than a drop), and with a full drop. After I removed the oil from the bearings I would spin them on a pair of pliers. I noticed that one of them would vibarate a little as it was slowing down. Is the vibaration normal? Are ceramincs quieter than Stainless?


Where did you get them? I have installed close to a thousand ABEC-7 bearings, and none were ever loud. They will make a little noise when you spin them dry, but they should be almost silent when properly lubed.

The ARB bearings are a bit noisier because they have no dust shield, but even they quiet down when oiled. The ceramic bearings are also a bit noisier, because of what they are made of, but they will quiet way down when lubed. Something is seriously wrong if you have new ABEC-7 bearings and they are making noise when lubed.

Mike


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## Doubleover (Jul 7, 2005)

I figured out the problem. Before installing the bearing I tore the reel down and cleaned it with lighter fluid. The lighter fluid cleaned the ID of the brass piece that turns the spool. All I had to do was put a little oil on the shaft of the spool and it made the loud noise stop. Is it normal to oil the brass piece?


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## Mike in Friendswood (May 21, 2004)

I think the piece that you are refering to (the brass piece that turns the spool) is the pinion. This part absolutely can cause problems after everything else checks out. However, you should not have put any oil in it, as it should not make contact with the spool shaft when it is disengaged. In fact, any oil will be detertimental to your casting distance. My guess is that if you now go back and remove the oil, you should be even better. You can do this without taking the reel down. Just remove the spool and make a piece of paper towel that fits sungly inside the pinion. Now spin the handle to clean the inside. Re-insert the spool and try the free-spool again. If it still makes noise, you may need to replace it. Also, when you are doing stuff to track down noises, make sure you have the brakes totally off, because you will get some noise from the brakes on the brass drum (if this is excessive, brass polish works like a charm).


Mike.


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## scuppersancho (May 25, 2006)

Hey Mike, when you service (do clean & tune-up) reels (curados in particular) do you use that Rocket Fuel?


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## Mike in Friendswood (May 21, 2004)

*Rocket Fuel*



scuppersancho said:


> Hey Mike, when you service (do clean & tune-up) reels (curados in particular) do you use that Rocket Fuel?


I have been using Rocket Fuel exclusively for a long time. It works very well, and it shows better corrosion protection than some of the other oils. Good stuff!

Mike


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## Doubleover (Jul 7, 2005)

I work at a machine shop and just thought of something that may be a good idea or a terrible idea. Please give input. What pro's/cons would there be if I opened the ID of the pinion lets say .03 or 1/32?


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