# Which Waterfowl 12ga? 3B's and an R?



## GinMan (Jan 29, 2005)

Looking for a great autoloader in 12ga. I want to be able to shoot 2 3/4"-3 1/2"
I do a lot of dove hunting (main reason I want it to cycle 2 3/4"), but I want an all -purpose for sandhill Crane, Goose, Duck, and Turkey.
Seems like a tall order, but for $1,600 all three B's and an R all say that they can do it!
I am leaning toward the Beretta or the Versamax, just looking for some experience/opinions on the better choice from these four:

*Beretta A400 Xtreme Unico*










*Remington Versa Max*










*Benelli Super Vinci*



*Browning Maxus All-Purpose*


Also; what about Barrel Length? I figure a good all around would be 26", but it sounds like I should go with a 28".
Any help would be greatly appreciated.


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## Mojo281 (Sep 7, 2006)

If you talk to 20 of the most die hard waterfowl hunters on this board, I'd bet ya that 15/20 shoot Benelli. And for a reason... MOST DEPENDABLE AUTOLOADER MADE!!

Benellis will not fail in the worst conditions you can put it through. I've hunted my SBE2 in 90 degree pouring rain,10 degree horizontal snow, and everything in between and never once has my gun failed me!!

Barrel length is all about personal preference... 26" is good all around, but I'd say get a 28" if you do a lot of crane, goose, and turkey hunting... People are going to tell you to get the gun that fits you best... Benellis are 100% customizable, they come with shim kits and you can buy raised combs if needed.


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## wtc3 (Aug 16, 2005)

I'll never buy another shotgun that isn't a Benelli. I've put mine through the ringer from Montana to Mexico and it has never ever failed me. Not a single misfire, jam, or any other cycling problem. I'm sure other folks have had the same luck with other brands but I've never needed to try anything else. Knock on wood.


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## marksmu (Dec 4, 2008)

I wanted a SBEII, but when I got to the store to buy the SBEII the Extrema II was on sale...I held both, shouldered both, and I ended up liking the SBEII better, but at the time the sale price had it $460 more than the Extrema, so I bought the Extrema II. 

I have probably cycled 1500 rounds through the Extrema with only 1 jam...I put a rusted shell in it that it could not eject....it got hung....I dont believe anything other than a pump would have been able to eject it. I needed pliers to get it out. Otherwise I have put that gun through some nasty stuff and it has worked flawlessly. 

If price were not an option I would have bought the SBEII...but since both have great reputations, I bought the cheaper one...I have not regretted it because it has not failed me yet.


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## diamondback72 (Aug 10, 2011)

The two ur leanin towards are the exact two i for sure wouldnt get. The Remington a slight maybe. But with the Benelli and my personal fav the Maxus, thats the only two to debate. Need to feel em. The Benellie dominates the waterfowl world & no question about its toughness. The Browning also comes with shims to give a semi custom fit. And fit is very important. Mount the gun and look down the rib over n over. My cousins Benelli would not cycle the lower ounce load and ive heard this before. Benelli also states that the gun may bot cycle them. I dont think this is the case with most of em though. My Maxus shoots a lot smother and noticably less recoil than his SBEII. I personlly think the Browning is as good as any. Theyve been makin some of the best autos longer than anyone. If u throw ur gun n the back of a truck or lay it covered n the mud n a rice field or just all the abuse that some give their $1500+ guns, then maybe the Benelli is the best. Ive hunted waterfowl for 30yrs and have never found a readon to abuse my guns in order to kill my limit, so the toughness was not a factor when i made my decision. But each to their own. The Benelli & Maxus would be the only two to choose from though


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## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

3 cases through my SBE II since purchasing 1 year ago and no issues yet. I heard stories of the low quality 2.75" dove loads having issues not ejecting, but of all the folks I know that have the SBE II for years, no one has personally had the problem. Simple fix if you are worried about it.... spend an extra $1 per box and buy Rios and your problem is solved...

Ive seen them go through some insane conditions, which is mainly why I purchased one. The fit is perfect for me, so it was a no brainer.

I paid <$1500 for mine, so you may want to shop around.


As far as the abuse goes.... alot of it is unintended.... I never mean to get it nasty, but hunting layout blinds in wet conditions will make it that way no matter what.... still goes BOOM BOOM BOOM (which my Beretta would not when it got down below 20F).

If I had to do it over again, I would have purchased one with the 26" barrel... this 28" gets hung on everything in a layout or timber.

PS... I hunt cranes, ducks, geese, dove and turkey with mine.... 5F to 95F...


I would like to see somebody get into the Super Vinci.... I dont know anybody who has one....


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## williamcr (Aug 8, 2006)

Sbe2 or the a400 would be my choice
I have been shooting my SBE now for 13 years and had 0 problems with it and I dove, duck, goose, and turkey hunt with it. I just ordered a A400 after trying one at the world skeet tournament in San Antoino last month. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## GinMan (Jan 29, 2005)

Thanks for the input. Another thing that I noticed is that ALL of them claim to have the least recoil shooting heavier loads. I went and shouldered the Benelli and I was impressed. I still haven't shouldered the Beretta. The salesman DID introduce me to a new Winchester X3. Supposed to cycle faster than anything on the market and it's less than $1K (still no comparison to the fit/feel/weight of the B's)


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## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

GinMan said:


> Thanks for the input. Another thing that I noticed is that ALL of them claim to have the least recoil shooting heavier loads. I went and shouldered the Benelli and I was impressed. I still haven't shouldered the Beretta. The salesman DID introduce me to a new Winchester X3. Supposed to cycle faster than anything on the market and it's less than $1K (still no comparison to the fit/feel/weight of the B's)


I would imagine recoil on these high end ones are about the same.... but to really reduce recoil, you need to increase weight.... which is not great when tromping through the nasty duck sloughs. If you want to get the best advice on low recoil shotguns, check out the dove lodges in Argentina and see what they use. That will tell you which style of recoil system is easy on the shoulder. Argentina dove lodges put more shells through their rental guns than probably anyone in the world.

The X3 was supposed to be the newest, most awesome shotgun to hit the market. The little video clips of 15 shots in like 4 seconds made the rounds on the internet and emails..... and then..... nothing.... I never heard anything else about it. There was little to no advertising and I have yet to meet a person who purchased one. I think that gun even ejected out of the bottom, doesnt it?


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## Mikeyhunts (Jun 4, 2007)

11-87 Remington super mag
And You can buy two for that price
I had a sbe2 and wouldn't trade back for it now
Wouldn't eject cheap shells like others mentioned

But you know, opinions are like *********, everyone has one and they all are different.
Just my personal experience!


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## duck commander (Sep 19, 2005)

Maxus! I love mine. I hunt hard clean little and it works hard for me. Low recoil, multiple design element to help patterning, designed to shoot steel, comfortable to me with weight slim line and duracoat. Oh ya speed load plus is awesome!
Matt


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## Boatless Potlicker (Oct 5, 2009)

I could tell you all the reasons why I think the Maxus is the best shotgun EVER made, but if you watch the YouTube video it will explain it better. Oh ya, they use them in Argentina now too....geez! Haha

If you are talking about an autoloader, weight does not determine felt recoil. It's a joke how much harder the inertia guns kick than gas guns. My wife and her friend can shoot my Maxus no problem!!!! She chooses it over her 20ga 870.

Benelli's claim to fame was reliability, but they are now obsolete and burdened by their precious inertia.


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## LightsOut (Sep 14, 2010)

my benelli nova has killed just about every thing ive ever aimed it at, ducks geese dove cranes turkeys and even hogs, 10+ years of mud, ice, saltgrass, rice, and red dirt and its still rockin...I will say no mater what you choose in the end get a good choke...Ive got a Patternmaster, I feel i kill more birds because of it rather than what brand shotgun i have...


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## [email protected] (Jun 25, 2005)

I worked at a gun store in Arkansas while in college and got to compare all the top end waterfowl shotguns. The Maxus and the Winchester Sx3 were the lightest recoil guns and were also smoother cycling. I have a SX3 but want a Maxus badly, it's just better looking and fits a bit better but the SX3 has the same quality as the other guns and has a better price. In the past gas guns were not as trouble free as the intertia buns but these new gas systems are very trouble free and kick a whole lot less. It would probably take thousands of shots for a gas system to start malfunctioning but it takes a simple cleaning to get it back to shooting great. With the introduction of the Super Vinci I think the SBEII is kind of obsolete now, the Vinci does everything the SBE does with an even simpler construction and break down and is lighter. The Extrema with the Kick off is just too heavy in my opinion, I have some die hard duck hunting buddies that recently switched from Extremas to the Maxus. I think the Maxus is the best duck gun out right now and it has no trouble shooting all three loads, even the really light 2.75 inch target loads flawlessly. With the new gas systems that the Maxus and SX3 use the argument that gas systems are not as reliable as a inertia system is not really a valid argument anymore. I have not had a chance to shoot the versamax yet but it seems to have an improved gas system in it that can shoot thousands of shots without needing a cleaning as well. The gas system on the SX3 is very similar to the Maxus and I break it down completely once a year and clean the gas system after hunting about 45 to 60 days during duck season and some dove hunting. It's really simple to break it down and clean the gas system and it has never failed to cycle or shoot one time. It has been used in sub freezing temps and snow in Arkansas as well without problems.


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## GunDog (Jun 6, 2006)

I have an External and the husband has an SBE II and we would both not trade our guns for the other. Having said that, they are both easy to clean however the SBE has a tendnacy to rust faster than the Extrema (my guess is that the Aqua stuff really works)...
But I clean the guns after every hunt so it is not really a problem. On the flip side my Extrema had a hard time shooting Fiochi 3.5 inch shells since they were a bit longer but the SBE II handled them just fine. Okay, one more observation, my husband' SBE II comforttech system started earthing after a couple of years and has been replaced twice.

All in all, put each gun up to your shoulder and see which one fits the best.


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## Garwood57 (Jul 1, 2007)

Winchester SX3 or Browning Silver Hunter


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## [email protected] (Jun 25, 2005)

justinsfa said:


> I would imagine recoil on these high end ones are about the same.... but to really reduce recoil, you need to increase weight.... which is not great when tromping through the nasty duck sloughs. If you want to get the best advice on low recoil shotguns, check out the dove lodges in Argentina and see what they use. That will tell you which style of recoil system is easy on the shoulder. Argentina dove lodges put more shells through their rental guns than probably anyone in the world.
> 
> The X3 was supposed to be the newest, most awesome shotgun to hit the market. The little video clips of 15 shots in like 4 seconds made the rounds on the internet and emails..... and then..... nothing.... I never heard anything else about it. There was little to no advertising and I have yet to meet a person who purchased one. I think that gun even ejected out of the bottom, doesnt it?


No the SX3 ejects them out the side like every other gun. They don't market it much anymore but it's still one of the best guns out there. The Browning Maxus and SX3 are very similar and are owned by the same parent company. All SX3 warranty repair goes through browning even though I've never had a warranty issue. The OP said he looked at the SX3 and said it didn't have the same feel and weight of the 3 b's but he may have not thought it was the same quality of the others because it's priced a little cheaper but it weighs the same as the maxus and SBEII and shoots just as good as them and has as light recoil as the more expensive ones. It's a steal at that price too. The browning maxus gas system is a slightly improved model of the sx3 gas system. I want a maxus due to it's magazine cut off and slightly lighter weight but having shot it, it recoils the same as the sx3, which is very light, even without a recoil reduction system. The extrema 2 with kickoff is extremely heavy at 8 lbs and that in itself hurts its sales numbers. Lots of customers at the gun shop I worked at picked the extrema up and immediately ruled it out since it's about a pound heavier than the other top waterfowl shotguns.


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## Slightly Dangerous (May 21, 2004)

I bought one of the first Remington Versa-Max and have to say that is has the least amount of recoil shooting any size load available. I have a Beretta Teknys and had a Benelli and neither one has the low recoil and ability to digest anything given like the Versa Max does. This shotgun won the gun of the year from Sports Afield and Best Shotgun of the Year from American Rifleman. 

It is infinitely adjustable for LOP and cheek height and just plain fits like a glove. Read the reviews. Especially the one where they were testing it in Argentina and after 5,000 or so rounds it caught on fire due to the bad powder buildup from the lousy ammo. They poured water in the chamber to put the fire out and then kept on shooting for two more days. Unreliable? I don't think so.

All this from a guy who hasn't owned a Remington in many many years. Looks like they got it right this time.


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## cody p (Aug 25, 2010)

1000's of rounds through my browning gold light10 and its good as new the 3 1/2 870 didnt hold up to good so its time for a sbe2, maxus, cynergy duck blind 3 1/2" or bretta xtreama. The cynergy is the one i want but for me price matters.


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## [email protected] (Jun 25, 2005)

cody p said:


> 1000's of rounds through my browning gold light10 and its good as new the 3 1/2 870 didnt hold up to good so its time for a sbe2, maxus, cynergy duck blind 3 1/2" or bretta xtreama. The cynergy is the one i want but for me price matters.


That cynergy is going to give you a pretty good kick every time you pull the trigger on a duck load. They are nice for dove loads but since they are light and don't have a gas system to relieve some of the gasses or a recoil reduction they kick pretty hard. Also for duck hunting you will really miss that 3rd shot option. A 7 lb. semi auto is a great gun to do it all and if I was going dove hunting in Argentina I would want a light recoil semi auto instead of the over under. Unless you are a competitive skeet shooter I think it's hard to beat some of these high end semi autos for all around shooting and hunting. After spending 1300 bucks for a gun you don't want to regret you decision and have to sell your gun and take the hit to the wallet to buy another one. A cynergy is a great gun, I've shot one and liked it but for shooting those hard to hit ducks, a third shell is always good to have.


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## teamgafftop1 (Aug 30, 2010)

We have two Vinci's and wouldn't trade them for the world. We've taken lots of ducks, pheasant, dove, chukar, quail, and geese with them and sent many cases of shells through each of them. However, we are looking to get two of the new SBEII Performance Shop Waterfowl Editions because the Vinci and Super Vinci trigger guards tend to hit your middle finger pretty hard with heavy loads. The low-recoil stocks let the gun move back a lot therefore allowing the trigger guard to back up against your finger. I thought I'd broken my finger last year using the Remington 1700 fps shells. Looked it up on the Benelli message board and it turns out this is a common complaint. From a reliability perspective, neither of the Vinci's has ever failed to cycle even in some wicked conditions or firing directly overhead. They're also great for upland hunting because they are very light and don't wear you out carrying them all day So, we're sold on Benelli and the inertia system. 

I don't know if he still has it or not, but TJ At Bay Flats had an SBE II that he did little (no) maintenance on (at the urging of Benelli I think) and dragged around every day. When we saw it you could tell it had been through the ringer. We asked about it's reliability and he said that it had NEVER failed to fire. That was probably the best real-world test I could imagine.


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## Joe-n-TX (Mar 9, 2010)

I have both, a SBEII and a 1187(circa early 90's). I have shot cheap wallyworld dove loads to duck/geese loads without so much as a hiccup. I do keep em clean and lubed though.

That said, my 13yr old will get a Beretta 3901 for xmass this year.

Joe


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## cgerace19 (Jul 17, 2008)

everyone is providing their input about brand so no need to add one more.

I would buy a 26" barrel and look for the lightest gun. Easier to swing around...at least for me. Shoulder a 26" gun and a 28" gun. you may think the 26" is too short.

autoloaders barely kick so I would not concern myself with recoil. buy the system that you like best. Inertia driven vs gas driven.


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## GDO (Jun 15, 2005)

I know this thread is close to a month old, but I wanted to add to it considering the A400 is a fairly new gun. I own a new Beretta A400 Xtreme and I can honestly say that it is an excellent gun. As has already been said, recoil on an autoloader will always be fairly minimal and this gun is no exception. I shot everything from 2 3/4" 7 1/2s to 3 1/2" BBB and not once did it bother me. Previous to getting this gun I shot a Nova so I obviously know what kind of butt whoopin a 3 1/2" BBB can put on you.

I demand the highest performance and durability out of my equipment and will not settle for anything less. My Nova went through season after season with only a few minor malfunctions and absolutely no cleaning during the season. Benelli makes a hell of a product and I will always believe that. I will follow that with, the new Beretta A400 Xtreme is above and beyond what any other shotgun on the market is. I have shot most of the big name shotguns and this A400 outperforms every single one hands down!

The main thing that I needed was something that would cycle anything from light to heavy. I have heard a few horror stories about the 391, SBE, SBEII amongst others that will not cycle a dove load reliably. Sure 90% of the time you are ok, but anyone that demands performance out of their firearm will not settle for 90%. I have about 200 rounds through the gun so far and the only malfunction was due to an old shell that fizzled and barely even shot the wad.

Check out these videos that I did on the A400 Xtreme. I will be posting more in the next few weeks and I will let you guys know when they are up.

Enjoy...


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## GinMan (Jan 29, 2005)

Thanks for the replies gentlemen. My wife ended up getting me the Beretta A400 Xtreme 26"! I used it recently on a sandhill crane hunt and it is one fine shotgun to say the least. Recoil is negligible w/ 3 1/2"s and it feels good when shouldered.
I will take it out next month and try it on a turkey, and I can't wait to take it dove hunting. I will hunt 30+ days during dove season so that should put it to the test with the 2 3/4" debates that I have read.
sorry for the delay on my response.


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## Blue Fury (Nov 5, 2006)

Hands down benelli SBE 2


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## [email protected] (May 24, 2004)

No mention of MADE IN USA! I have 48 duck seasons under my belt. When I was a kid I remember the elders of our church convening a special mtg to decide whether foreign autos should be allowed in the parking lot. Times have changed!


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## RPH (May 14, 2010)

Maxus


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## llred (Jun 30, 2008)

Browning or Beretta. I have shot the Super Vinci with the 3.5" load and it kicks just about like my 870 supermag.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

lots of talk about recoil but if your hunting and worried about recoil there could be a problem..


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## SpottedAg (Jun 16, 2010)

I love my SBE II, but it kicks like a mule compared to a gas gun. It will cycle a 1 oz. load sometimes, but not always. Kick is not a big issue for me, but it's much more enjoyable to shoot a gas gun. Nice crane hunt!


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## llred (Jun 30, 2008)

CHARLIE said:


> lots of talk about recoil but if your hunting and worried about recoil there could be a problem..


Take a Benelli on a management goose hunt and run a few boxes of 3.5" magnums through it, then make your comment.


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## Spec-Rig.006 (Nov 2, 2007)

Benelli ... ? Recoil ... ? What a bunch of girls. I put 2.5 cases through my SBEII this year and my 115 lbs. lady friend used it on two hunts - 3 words - it DOESN'T KICK ...


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## BURTONboy (Feb 23, 2010)

I bought a SBE2 with a 28" barrel two years ago and haven't looked back. The improved modified choke paired with this gun has proven absolutely deadily for both dove and duck. Felt recoil is minimal and I haven't had one outing where my shoulder was hurting after a morning/afternoon of hunting. I have yet to find any shell that it wont cycle. Dont think it has jammed one time yet! Not to mention it's the easiest gun to take apart and clean I have ever had the privelage of owning. For $1600, you can pick one up tomorrow brand new!


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## Spec-Rig.006 (Nov 2, 2007)

BURTONboy said:


> ... For $1600, you can pick one up tomorrow brand new!


Shop around ... ! I got mine for $1240 new in the box in Cypress.


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## Troutonly (Sep 1, 2011)

Shoot a SBE, Easy decision.
If you got the money and want to have a long turn investment on a top of the line gun then there is no question about it. SBE all the way!!!!


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