# I am a Catholic. Why should I consider becoming a Christian?



## Fish&Chips

*Question: "I am a Catholic. Why should I consider becoming a Christian?"

Answer: *First, please understand that we intend no offense in the wording of this question. We genuinely receive questions, from Catholics, along the lines of â€œWhat is the difference between Catholics and Christians?â€ In face-to-face conversations with Catholics, we have literally heard, â€œI am not a Christian, I am Catholic.â€ To many Catholics, the terms â€œChristianâ€ and â€œProtestantâ€ are synonymous. With all that said, the intent of this article is that Catholics would study what the Bible says about being a Christian and would perhaps consider that the Catholic faith is not the best representation of what the Bible describes. As a background, please read our article on â€œWhat is a Christian?â€

A key distinction between Catholics and Christians is the view of the Bible. Catholics view the Bible as having equal authority with the Church and tradition. Christians view the Bible as the supreme authority for faith and practice. The question is, how does the Bible present itself? Second Timothy 3:16-17 tells us, â€œAll Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.â€ This text tells us that Scripture is not â€œjust the beginning,â€ or â€œjust the basics,â€ or the â€œfoundation for a more complete church tradition.â€ On the contrary, Scripture is perfectly and fully sufficient for everything in the Christian life. Scripture can teach us, rebuke us, correct us, train us, and equip us. â€œBible Christiansâ€ do not deny the value of church tradition. Rather, Christians uphold that for a church tradition to be valid, it must be based on the clear teaching of Scripture and must be in full agreement with Scripture. Catholic friend, study the Word of God for yourself. In Godâ€™s Word you will find Godâ€™s description of, and intention for, His Church. Second Timothy 2:15 declares, â€œDo your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.â€

A second key difference between Catholics and Bible Christians is the understanding of how we can approach God. Catholics tend to approach God through intermediaries, such as Mary or the saints. Christians approach God directly, offering prayers to no one other than God Himself. The Bible proclaims that we ourselves can approach Godâ€™s throne of grace with boldness (Hebrews 4:16). The Bible is perfectly clear that God desires us to pray to Him, to have communication with Him, to ask Him for the things we need (Philippians 4:6; Matthew 7:7-8; 1 John 5:14-15). There is no need for mediators or intermediaries, as Christ is our one and only mediator (1 Timothy 2:5), and both Christ and the Holy Spirit are already interceding on our behalf (Romans 8:26-27; Hebrews 7:25). Catholic friend, God loves you intimately and has provided an open door to direct communication through Jesus.

The most crucial difference between Catholics and Bible Christians is on the issue of salvation. Catholics view salvation almost entirely as a process, while Christians view salvation as both a completed status and a process. Catholics see themselves as â€œbeing saved,â€ while Christians view themselves as â€œhaving been saved.â€ First Corinthians 1:2 says, â€œTo those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be holy.â€ The words â€œsanctifiedâ€ and â€œholyâ€ come from the same Greek root. This verse is declaring that Christians are both sanctified and called to be sanctified. The Bible presents salvation as a gift that is received the moment a person places faith in Jesus Christ as Savior (John 3:16). When a person receives Christ as Savior, he/she is justified (declared righteous â€" Romans 5:9), redeemed (rescued from slavery to sin â€" 1 Peter 1:18), reconciled (achieving peace with God â€" Romans 5:1), sanctified (set apart for Godâ€™s purposes â€" 1 Corinthians 6:11), and born again as a new creation (1 Peter 1:23; 2 Corinthians 5:17). Each of these is fully accomplished at the moment of salvation. Christians are then called to live out practically (called to be holy) what is already true positionally (sanctified).

The Catholic viewpoint is that salvation is received by faith, but then must be â€œmaintainedâ€ by good works and participation in the Sacraments. Bible Christians do not deny the importance of good works or that Christ calls us to observe the ordinances in remembrance of Him and in obedience to Him. The difference is that Christians view these things as the result of salvation, not a requirement for salvation or a means of maintaining salvation. Salvation is an accomplished work, purchased by the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ (1 John 2:2). God offers us salvation and assurance of salvation because Jesusâ€™ sacrifice was fully, completely, and perfectly sufficient. If we receive Godâ€™s precious gift of salvation, we can know that we are saved. First John 5:13 declares, â€œI write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.â€

We can know that we have eternal life, and we can have assurance of our salvation because of the greatness of Christâ€™s sacrifice. Christâ€™s sacrifice does not need to be re-offered or re-presented. Hebrews 7:27 says, â€œHe sacrificed for their sins once for all when He offered Himself.â€ Hebrews 10:10 declares, â€œWe have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.â€ First Peter 3:18 exclaims, â€œFor Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God.â€ Christâ€™s once-for-all sacrifice was absolutely and perfectly sufficient. Jesus declared on the cross, â€œIt is finishedâ€ (John 19:30). Jesusâ€™ atoning sacrifice was the full payment for all of our sins (1 John 2:2). As a result, all of our sins are forgiven, and we are promised eternal life in heaven the moment we receive the gift God offers us â€" salvation through Jesus Christ (John 3:16).

Catholic friend, do you desire this â€œso great salvationâ€ (Hebrews 2:6)? If so, all you must do is receive it (John 1:12) through faith (Romans 5:1). God loves us and offers us salvation as a gift (John 3:16). If we receive His grace, by faith, we have salvation as our eternal possession (Ephesians 2:8-9). Once saved, nothing can separate us from His love (Romans 8:38-39). Nothing can remove us from His hand (John 10:28-29). If you desire this salvation, if you desire to have all your sins forgiven, if you desire to have assurance of salvation, if you desire direct access to the God who loves you â€" receive it, and it is yours. This is the salvation that Jesus died to provide and that God offers as a gift.
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http://www.gotquestions.org/Catholic-Christian.html

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## tngbmt

i've been amazed at the recent re-wording of the catholic mass & prayers. it's an opportunity to look closer at the literary effect of translations & comprehension. i understand so little and so i trust more to those that was entrusted with the keys of heaven.


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## Danny O

I was raised Catholic. Attended Catholic school, married in the church, baptized the kids and always considered myself Christian...until I found a spirit filled church in my mid 20's.


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## Fish&Chips

My grandmother would tell me stories about the virgin Mary when I was just a kid. I used to enjoy listening to those stories. Eventually I became a Christian and when my grandma was about 72 years old I told her the truth about the bible and God's plan of redemption and she ws born again by the power of God. I thank the Lord that he saved her before she left this earth. Thank you Jesus!


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## WillieT

Catholics do consider themselves Christian.


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## Fish&Chips

shaggydog said:


> Catholics do consider themselves Christian.


And do you believe that is accurate?


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## WillieT

There is a difference in saying you are a Christian and being a true Christian. Many say they are Christian, when in reality they are not.


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## tngbmt

i think i'm gonna stay out of this since i'm a sinner in the mist of greatness


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## Fish&Chips

tngbmt said:


> i think i'm gonna stay out of this since i'm a sinner in the mist of greatness


No need to stay out of it. We are all sinners, just some are redeemed and some are not. Clothe yourself with Jesus Christ. Amen.


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## spencey820

I like this forum... but I dont like the thread on why to become protestant and not Catholic... I will say if you have questions on why you should be come catholic and not protestant, you can find information to common misconceptions of the Catholic church at http://forums.catholic.com/ and also the Catholic radio show. Also ask yourself why a Catholic priest is the only one that performs an exorcism compared to a protestant preacher :cop:


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## poco jim

I'm a Lutheran, does that make me a Christian or Catholic, since a Catholic and a Lutheran are almost the same.

My belief in God doesn't have anything to do with Religion, IT'S MY BELIEF!


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## spencey820

yes of course...

1. Christian- Professing belief in Jesus as Christ or following the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.

Christ= Christian nobody can take that away regardless of what they have to say.


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## Fish&Chips

poco jim said:


> I'm a Lutheran, does that make me a Christian or Catholic, since a Catholic and a Lutheran are almost the same.
> 
> My belief in God doesn't have anything to do with Religion, IT'S MY BELIEF!


Does YOUR BELIEF align with what Jesus says? Is Jesus Christ your Lord & Savior?


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## Fish&Chips

spencey820 said:


> I like this forum... but I dont like the thread on why to become protestant and not Catholic... I will say if you have questions on why you should be come catholic and not protestant, you can find information to common misconceptions of the Catholic church at http://forums.catholic.com/ and also the Catholic radio show. Also ask yourself why a Catholic priest is the only one that performs an exorcism compared to a protestant preacher :cop:


Do Catholics go to confession to be forgiven for their sins by a man? The bible teaches us that there is only one mediator between God & man and that mediator is Christ Jesus. And only God can forgive us of our sins.

Do Catholics baptize their babies? That is not biblical. In the bible we only see people who are conscience of sin being baptized.

The bible says that at the name of Jesus demons tremble. Every Christian has the authority to cast out demons by imploring the name of Jesus.

Mary was a sinner just like all of us. Yet she found favor with God. She called Jesus "My Savior" because she was a sinner in need of a savior. And we should not pray to saints, only to God, for he is a jealous God.

Not trying to slam the Catholic religion, just wanted to point out some things that I know are not biblical.


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## atcfisherman

Bottom line for everyone who has every lived or shall live is the following questions.

1) What does one say who Jesus Christ is?
2) Did you trust in the saving grace of Jesus Christ or your own works?

I don't call myself a baptist. I don't call myself a religious or spiritual person. I call myself a christian because my faith is built on the saving grace of Jesus Christ and I have a personal daily relationship with God through the Holy Spirit by the saving grace of Jesus Christ. Below are two of my favorite scriptures that hold truths that will never change. So if you are catholic, protestant or any other religion or non-religious, the bottom line is what do you believe and do with Jesus Christ before you die? After death, it's too late. 

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,

John 14:6
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.


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## panamafish

Fish&Chips said:


> Do Catholics go to confession to be forgiven for their sins by a man? The bible teaches us that there is only one mediator between God & man and that mediator is Christ Jesus. And only God can forgive us of our sins.
> 
> Do Catholics baptize their babies? That is not biblical. In the bible we only see people who are conscience of sin being baptized.
> 
> The bible says that at the name of Jesus demons tremble. Every Christian has the authority to cast out demons by imploring the name of Jesus.
> 
> Mary was a sinner just like all of us. Yet she found favor with God. She called Jesus "My Savior" because she was a sinner in need of a savior. And we should not pray to saints, only to God, for he is a jealous God.
> 
> Not trying to slam the Catholic religion, just wanted to point out some things that I know are not biblical.


i think this is one of the biggest misconception of the catholic faith....there is ***** thing with the belief of succession if you believe that and this is why it is believed in the catholic church to confess to the priest ............Christ told the apostles to follow his example: "As the Father has sent me, even so I send you" (John 20:21). Just as the apostles were to carry Christâ€™s message to the whole world, so they were to carry his forgiveness: "


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## Fish&Chips

panamafish said:


> i think this is one of the biggest misconception of the catholic faith....there is ***** thing with the belief of succession if you believe that and this is why it is believed in the catholic church to confess to the priest ............Christ told the apostles to follow his example: "As the Father has sent me, even so I send you" (John 20:21). Just as the apostles were to carry Christâ€™s message to the whole world, so they were to carry his forgiveness: "


The bible is very clear that only God can forgive sins (in a few places). Can you provide a scripture reference that shows where any one of the apostles forgave somebody's sins?


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## Fish&Chips

Many of us were raised in the Catholic religion and it is sometimes offensive to read posts like this. All I'm asking you to do is look at the facts, especially the bible and do the research with an open mind. Also ask God to help you understand.


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## tngbmt

i guess i'd better chime in..
because you do not understand something .. it doesn't make it wrong
because you think you had a revelation, it doesn't make what you saw gospel truth
because you read it some where, it doesn't make you an expert

you can profess your faith all you want but by making even one person, whether it be a catholic or any other denomination stray from Christ (luke 17:2) you are in danger of making a serious sin. what make you think that facts, internet research and open mind will aid in someone's faith? professing a spiritual knowledge un-tethered by the grace of god can be damaging. however, i admire and envy your zeal.


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## Fish&Chips

If you look at my posts, they are encouraging & persuading people to get closer to Jesus Christ. Forget about religion or denominations, that is something that the devil has used to cause division. Follow Jesus Christ with all that is in you - He is the "true shepherd." My desire is to see more souls being saved by the grace of God. God bless you.


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## tngbmt

Fish&Chips said:


> The bible is very clear that only God can forgive sins (in a few places). Can you provide a scripture reference that shows where any one of the apostles forgave somebody's sins?


mis-conceptions, the priest does not forgive sins, the apostles does not drive out demons .. it is in Jesus' name the rite is performed. can anyone perform this rite? yes. however can you be certain that your action truly absolved the sinner? can i profess directly to god and be absolved (if you are indeed that vain .. 'in Jesus' name my sins are forgiven'?)? what if thru our inadequacies the absolution wasn't completed? are you certain enuf to gamble eternity with your soul or of others? if your sin against god require penance, who will set yours? will five Lord's Prayer enuf? or five thousand? are you certain none is required or your one good deed saved your soul?? why do i confess to a priest? because they will have answer on judgement day if they caused the lost of one soul entrusted to them. this, i believe.


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## Fish&Chips

That is the thing - I am not trusting in anyting that I have done, but in what Jesus Christ has done on the cross. Yes I am certain that no penance is required. Jesus Christ paid for it all on the cross. All we have to do is repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. The veil was torn when Jesus was crucified. We have access to the Father thru the Son. I also don't believe that I can forgive anybody's sin in Jesus name. Only God can do that. God has given us authority over all the power of the enemy, but not to forgive sins. We are each responsible for our own souls and where we will spend eternity. Don't depend on man because man will fail you. Put your trust in Jesus Christ.

_Ephesians 2:_
_14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. 17 And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near. *18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.*_


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## Fish&Chips

*Hebrews 4:*
*14 Seeing then that we have a great High Priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. 15 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.*


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## tngbmt

john 20:21-23
?


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## Fish&Chips

First of all, the bible does not contradict itself. And in Luke 5:21 we read:
*And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, â€œWho is this who speaks blasphemies? Who can forgive sins but God alone?â€*

The scriptures you are refering to most likely have to do with church discipline. If you look at 2 Corinthians 2:10 (Now whom you forgive anything, I also _forgive_. For if indeed I have forgiven anything, I have forgiven that one[a] for your sakes in the presence of Christ,), you will see the similarity.


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## tngbmt

exactly why i post earlier .. in #2
thru translations and theological studies, the church accumulated to what we know as man's interpretation. worse yet, the little that we know compared to the theologians, we espouse to be revelations. the bible does not contradict itself, Jesus' authority to forgive and His direct command to the apostles needs not interpretations from the pharisees. as far as corinthians verse, read the whole letter from Paul. taking excerpts out of context will only confuse you. the portion 'forgiveness to the offender' is written for us on how to forgive and accept each other's offenses..

we can take this private if you want..


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## WillieT

Fish&Chips said:


> First of all, the bible does not contradict itself. And in Luke 5:21 we read:
> *And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, â€œWho is this who speaks blasphemies? Who can forgive sins but God alone?â€*
> 
> The scriptures you are refering to most likely have to do with church discipline. If you look at 2 Corinthians 2:10 (Now whom you forgive anything, I also _forgive_. For if indeed I have forgiven anything, I have forgiven that one[a] for your sakes in the presence of Christ,), you will see the similarity.


Your quote is the scribes and Pharisees speaking. What did they know. They knew all the signs to look for in the Christ, but denied Jesus was the Messiah. Jesus called them hypocrits, said they were from their father the devil.

God sent his son to atone for all of mankind's sins. There are requirements to be in line for that forgiveness.


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## Fish&Chips

The pharisees actually knew the scriptures more than we do. They kept the law/the commandments. Because of this their hearts were full of pride and self righteousness that actually made them blind to the truth. If a doctrine is formed by one single scripture, there is great danger in that. Everything else in the bible clearly states that only God can forgive sins. Nowhere do we see the apostles forgiving sins.

If the bible even says that there is none righteous, not even one of us. How could we even think about it being possible that we would be able to forgive sins? The only sins we are able to forgive are the trespasses against us by others.

_Psalm 130:4_
_But there is forgiveness with You,_
_That You may be feared._

_Isaiah 43:25_
_â€œI, even I, am He who blots out your transgressions for My own sake;_
_And I will not remember your sins._

_Daniel 9:9_
_To the Lord our God belong mercy and forgiveness, though we have rebelled against Him. _

_Micah 7:18_
_Who is a God like You,_
_Pardoning iniquity_
_And passing over the transgression of the remnant of His heritage?_
_He does not retain His anger forever,_
_Because He delights in mercy._

_Acts 8:22_
_Repent therefore of this your wickedness, and pray God if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you. _


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## tngbmt

luke 10:17


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## WillieT

Fish&Chips said:


> The pharisees actually knew the scriptures more than we do. They kept the law/the commandments. Because of this their hearts were full of pride and self righteousness that actually made them blind to the truth. If a doctrine is formed by one single scripture, there is great danger in that. Everything else in the bible clearly states that only God can forgive sins. Nowhere do we see the apostles forgiving sins.
> 
> If the bible even says that there is none righteous, not even one of us. How could we even think about it being possible that we would be able to forgive sins? The only sins we are able to forgive are the trespasses against us by others.
> 
> _Psalm 130:4_
> _But there is forgiveness with You,_
> _That You may be feared._
> 
> _Isaiah 43:25_
> _â€œI, even I, am He who blots out your transgressions for My own sake;_
> _And I will not remember your sins._
> 
> _Daniel 9:9_
> _To the Lord our God belong mercy and forgiveness, though we have rebelled against Him. _
> 
> _Micah 7:18_
> _Who is a God like You,_
> _Pardoning iniquity_
> _And passing over the transgression of the remnant of His heritage?_
> _He does not retain His anger forever,_
> _Because He delights in mercy._
> 
> _Acts 8:22_
> _Repent therefore of this your wickedness, and pray God if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you. _


They were the religious leaders of the day, but they burdened the people with man made traditions, like many do today. I will no dispute that they knew the scriptures, but knowing and understanding are two different things. It is clear how Jesus felt about them. They did not understand well enough to know that Jesus was the son of God.

The same thing happens today.


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## Fish&Chips

*Plain Truth about the Roman Catholic Church*

The Plain Truth about
the Roman Catholic Church​
The Roman Catholic Church claims to have started in Matthew 16:18 when Christ supposedly appointed Peter as the first Pope. However, the honest and objective student of the Scriptures and history soon discovers that the foundation of the Roman church is none other than the pagan mystery religion of ancient Babylon. 

While enduring the early persecutions of the Roman government (65-300 A.D.), most of professing Christianity went through a gradual departure from New Testament doctrine concerning church government, worship and practice. Local churches ceased to be autonomous by giving way to the control of "bishops" ruling over hierarchies. The simple form of worship from the heart was replaced with the rituals and splendor of paganism. Ministers became "priests," and pagans became "Christians" by simply being sprinkled with water. This tolerance of an unregenerate membership only made things worse. SPRINKLED PAGANISM is about the best definition for Roman Catholicism. 

The Roman Emperor Constantine established himself as the head of the church around 313 A.D., which made this new "Christianity" the official religion of the Roman Empire. The first actual Pope in Rome was probably Leo I (440-461 A.D.), although some claim that Gregory I was the first (590-604 A.D.). This ungodly system eventually ushered in the darkest period of history known to man, properly known as the "Dark Ages" (500-1500 A.D.). Through popes, bishops, and priests, Satan ruled Europe, and Biblical Christianity became illegal. 

Throughout all of this, however, there remained individual groups of true Christians, such as the Waldensens and the Anabaptists who would not conform to the Roman system. 

*The Papacy and Priesthood* 
In the Bible there are no popes or priests to rule over the church. Jesus Christ is our High Priest (Heb. 3:1; 4:14-15; 5:5; 8:1; 9:11), and all true Christians make up a spiritual priesthood (I Pet. 2:5). Jesus Christ has sanctified all Christians who believe on Him (Heb. 10:10-11), so all priests today are unnecessary and unscriptural. Furthermore, the practice of calling a priest "father" is forbidden by Jesus Christ in Matthew 23:9. There is only ONE mediator between God and men (I Tim. 2:5). 

The Catholic church teaches that Peter was the first Pope and the earthly head of the church, but the Bible never says this once. In fact, it was Peter himself who spoke against "being lords over God's heritage" in I Peter 5:3. Popes do not marry, although Peter did (Mat. 8:14; I Cor. 9:5). The Bible never speaks of Peter being in Rome, and it was Paul, not Peter, who wrote the epistle to the Romans. In the New Testament, Paul wrote 100 chapters with 2,325 verses, while Peter wrote only 8 chapters with 166 verses. In Peter's first epistle he stated that he was simply "an apostle of Jesus Christ," not a Pope (I Pet. 1:1). The Roman papacy and priesthood is just a huge fraud to keep members in bondage to a corrupt pagan church. 

*The Worship of Mary* 
Roman Catholics believe that Mary, the mother of Jesus, remained a virgin after the birth of Jesus and was sinless all of her life. She is worshiped in the Catholic church as the "Mother of God" and the "Queen of Heaven." St. Bernard stated that she was crowned "Queen of Heaven" by God the Father, and that she currently sits upon a throne in Heaven making intercession for Christians. 

The Bible teaches otherwise. In the Bible, Mary was a sinner just like the rest of us. She said herself that she needed a "Saviour" (Lk. 1:47), and she even had to offer a sacrifice for her sins in Luke 2:24. Jesus was only her "firstborn" son, according to Matthew 1:25, because she later had other children as well (Mt. 13:55; Gal. 1:19; Psa. 69:8). There's only ONE mediator between God and men, and it isn't Mary (I Tim. 2:5). The last time we hear from Mary in the Bible she is praying WITH the disciples, not being prayed to BY the disciples (Acts 1:14). The Bible never exalts Mary above anyone else. Neither should we. 

*Purgatory* 
The Catholic Church teaches that a Christian's soul must burn in purgatory after death until all of their sins have been purged. To speed up the purging process, money may be paid to a priest so he can pray and have special masses for an earlier release. 

This heresy began creeping into the Roman Church during the reign of Pope Gregory around the end of the sixth century, and it has no scriptural support. In fact, Jesus warned us about this pagan practice in Matthew 23:14 when He spoke of those who devoured widows houses and made long prayers for a pretence. Psalm 49:6-7 tells us that a person couldn't redeem a loved one, even if such a place did exist: "They that trust in their wealth, and boast themselves in the multitude of their riches; None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:" 

Peter addresses this issue in Acts 8:20 when he says, "Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money." God's word is clearly against the doctrine of purgatory. 

*The Mass* 
By perverting the Christian practice of the Lord's Supper (Mat. 26:26-28; I Cor. 11:23-27), the Catholic Church has created the Mass, which they believe to be a continual sacrifice of Jesus Christ: 

"Christ...commanded that his bloody sacrifice on the Cross should be daily renewed by an unbloody sacrifice of his body and blood in the Mass under the simple elements of bread and wine." (The Catholic Encyclopedia, Vol. 10, Pg. 13, Article: "Mass, Sacrifice of") 

Jesus never made such a command. If you'll check the above references in Matthew 26 and I Corinthians 11, you'll see for yourself that the Lord's Supper is a MEMORIAL and a SHOWING of Christ's death until He comes again. It is not a sacrifice. The Catholic Encyclopedia states the following: 

"In the celebration of the Holy Mass, the bread and wine are changed into the body and blood of Christ. It is called transubstantiation, for in the Sacrament of the Eucharist the substance of bread and wine do not remain, but the entire substance of bread is changed into the body of Christ, and the entire substance of wine is changed into his blood, the species or outward semblence of bread and wine alone remaining." (Vol. 4, pg. 277, Article: "Consecration") 

The Catholic Church teaches that the "Holy Mass" is a LITERAL EATING AND DRINKING OF THE LITERAL FLESH AND BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST. The priest supposedly has the power to change the bread and wine into the body and blood of Christ.

Now, what does God's word say about such practices? If you'll read Genesis 9:4, Leviticus 17:11-12, and Acts 15:29, you will find that God absolutely FORBIDS the drinking of blood all through the Bible.

Rome teaches that the Mass is a continual "sacrifice" of Jesus Christ, but God's word states that Jesus made the FINAL sacrifice on Calvary! This is made perfectly clear in Hebrews 10:10-12: 

"By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God." 

The mass is unnecessary and unscriptural. 

*Image Worship* 
The Catholic religion is filled with all sorts of symbols, images, and relics. The Catechism of the Council of Trent states these words: 

"It is lawful to have images in the Church, and to give honor and worship unto them..." 

It's lawful to honor and worship images? Not according to God's word. Exodus 20:4-5 says, "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me." Image worship is unscriptural and will end with the eternal damnation of those who practice it (Rev. 14:11). 

*Salvation by Works* 
Through infant baptism, keeping sacraments, church membership, going to mass, praying to Mary, and confession (just to mention a few), the Catholic church has developed a system of salvation through WORKS. God's word says that we are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, not through works: 

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." (Eph. 2:8-9) 

"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." (Romans 4:5) 

Jesus Christ came into this world to lay down His sinless life for YOU--to pay for your sins, because you couldn't. Jesus is your only hope for salvation. Only by receiving Him as your Saviour can you enter the gates of Heaven. There is no other way. 

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father but by me." (John 14:6) 

The Lord Jesus Christ has come and PAID for your sins by shedding His own Blood on Calvary. By receiving Him as your Saviour, you can be WASHED from all your sins in His precious Blood (Rev. 1:5; Col. 1:14; Acts 20:28; I Pet. 1:18-19). Notice these important words from Romans 5:8-9: 

"But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him." 

Jesus PAID your way to Heaven for you! By receiving Him as your Saviour, you will be receiving God's ONLY means of Salvation for you. Are you willing to forsake YOUR righteousness and receive Jesus Christ as your Saviour, your ONLY HOPE for Salvation? Romans 10:13 says, "Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." Romans 10:9 says, "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." Are you willing to forsake your own righteousness, and trust Jesus Christ alone? He will save you just as He promised. Why not receive Him today and trust Him to give you a better way of life?

http://www.biblebelievers.com/jmelton/Catholic.html


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## tngbmt

i'm so sorry to have read such non-sense ..
so based on the pharisees Jesus didn't mean what he said in john 20:21-23, and thru historical search we found that he didn't really mean it in mathew 16:18 either.

again you posted a bunch of assumptions on mass, the virgin mary, worship of images, sacraments. who ever you copied from has no understanding of catholic teachings or purposely ignore and perverse in their ignorance to advance some ideology. i implore you to stop before you copy and paste things that pervese the gospel that you believe in. 

i think my posts here have made it worse so i'm signing out of this .. peace


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## Danny O

Pick up Fast Facts on False Teachings by Ron Carlson & Ed Decker.


----------



## Fish&Chips

tngbmt said:


> i'm so sorry to have read such non-sense ..
> so based on the pharisees Jesus didn't mean what he said in john 20:21-23, and thru historical search we found that he didn't really mean it in mathew 16:18 either.
> 
> again you posted a bunch of assumptions on mass, the virgin mary, worship of images, sacraments. who ever you copied from has no understanding of catholic teachings or purposely ignore and perverse in their ignorance to advance some ideology. i implore you to stop before you copy and paste things that pervese the gospel that you believe in.
> 
> i think my posts here have made it worse so i'm signing out of this .. peace


Sorry you feel that way. If the pharisees were mistaken, Jesus would have set them straight, but they were not - on that topic.

I'm pretty sure what I posted is much more than assumptions. What I copy & paste, I make sure to read and then I post it if I agree with it. Peace to you too and I really hope that you will look deeply into what you are involved in.


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## WillieT

Jesus said: â€œIf you forgive the sins of any persons, they stand forgiven to them; if you retain those of any persons, they stand retained.â€

There is no Scriptural basis for concluding that Christians in general, have divine authority to forgive sins. Yet, what Jesus said to his disciples at John 20:23, quoted above, indicates that God granted the apostles special powers in this regard. It could only be done by the outpouring of God's holy spirit.

Jesus was not a friend of the pharisees, and he made that clear on many occasions. They did not teach the truth of God's word and denied he was the Christ. They were given all the signs to watch for the coming of the Messiah, but could not see past the end of their noses.

Fish I know you are looking, I sincerely hope that one day you find the truth. You haven't yet. What is sad is that it might be right in front of you.


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## Fish&Chips

shaggydog said:


> Jesus said: â€œIf you forgive the sins of any persons, they stand forgiven to them; if you retain those of any persons, they stand retained.â€
> 
> There is no Scriptural basis for concluding that Christians in general, have divine authority to forgive sins. Yet, what Jesus said to his disciples at John 20:23, quoted above, indicates that God granted the apostles special powers in this regard. It could only be done by the outpouring of God's holy spirit.
> 
> Jesus was not a friend of the pharisees, and he made that clear on many occasions. They did not teach the truth of God's word and denied he was the Christ. They were given all the signs to watch for the coming of the Messiah, but could not see past the end of their noses.
> 
> Fish I know you are looking, I sincerely hope that one day you find the truth. You haven't yet. What is sad is that it might be right in front of you.


Shaggydog, I'm not sure why you got on this thread because you're not really making sense. I thank you for your concern though.

I will choose to follow Jesus Christ. I know all about the pharisees and how Jesus feels about them, even nowadays. Like i told you before, Jesus Christ is the truth and only in him will you find peace.

Another thing is you need to stop looking at man's religion and begin looking at Jesus Christ.


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## Stumpgrinder

I am a Catholic and Christian.

Over and out. ( You boys dont go losing your "religion" whilst you hammer out the details of whose wrong + right now)


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## WillieT

Fish&Chips said:


> Shaggydog, I'm not sure why you got on this thread because you're not really making sense. I thank you for your concern though.
> 
> I will choose to follow Jesus Christ. I know all about the pharisees and how Jesus feels about them, even nowadays. Like i told you before, Jesus Christ is the truth and only in him will you find peace.
> 
> Another thing is you need to stop looking at man's religion and begin looking at Jesus Christ.


Jesus is the head of the congregation.

I don't think it was me that was looking at a man's religion. It sure wasn't me that was calling out the Catholics.


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## Fish&Chips

shaggydog said:


> Jesus is the head of the congregation.
> 
> I don't think it was me that was looking at a man's religion. It sure wasn't me that was calling out the Catholics.


Shaggydog, I thought you were a Jehova's witness? Are you Jehova's witness or a Catholic? I know you were offended when I posted how the Jehova's witness religion is not biblical and now you are offended when I show how Catholics' teachings contradict what Jesus taught. Be blessed shaggydog...


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## Fish&Chips

Stumpgrinder said:


> I am a Catholic and Christian.
> 
> Over and out. ( You boys dont go losing your "religion" whilst you hammer out the details of whose wrong + right now)


It's all about JESUS CHRIST. Religion can't save us. Only what Jesus did for us on the cross. We need to repent and turn to Him.


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## Fish&Chips




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## bowmansdad

I've been a Catholic Christian all my life. F&C, I respect your beliefs so respect mine.
I've read this whole thread and all the referenced material and can't see how a
person that isn't Catholic can know what I believe in and why I believe that way. I won't knock what you believe in because I'm not an expert on any religion.
Let's just agree that Jesus is Our Lord and he died on the Cross for our sins but how we get to heaven is our own personal journey to go through the narrow gate.


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## Fish&Chips

I'm sorry you were offended bowmansdad. I'm just trying to help people see the truth, and it's not only the Catholic religion. I know religion is a sensitive subject and just like the former Catholic priest said in the video above - "He was sincere." The problem was that he was sincerely wrong. Jesus Christ is the only way and having a relationship with him is the most important thing we can do. May God bless you.


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## WillieT

Fish&Chips said:


> Shaggydog, I thought you were a Jehova's witness? Are you Jehova's witness or a Catholic? I know you were offended when I posted how the Jehova's witness religion is not biblical and now you are offended when I show how Catholics' teachings contradict what Jesus taught. Be blessed shaggydog...


As I have told you in the past I am an astute student of the bible. I really think you are trying to help people, but I do not think you know what the bible really teaches. I think you know the basics and want to know the truth. I truly hope you find it some day.

One suggestion, don't assume things about a persons religion.


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## Fish&Chips

Thank you for your opinions & assumptions shaggydog.


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## DA REEL DADDY

shaggydog said:


> As I have told you in the past I am an astute student of the bible. I really think you are trying to help people, but I do not think you know what the bible really teaches. I think you know the basics and want to know the truth. I truly hope you find it some day.
> 
> *One suggestion, don't assume things about a persons religion*.


Very well put. Thanks for the post.


----------



## Stumpgrinder

Fish&Chips said:


> It's all about JESUS CHRIST. Religion can't save us. Only what Jesus did for us on the cross. We need to repent and turn to Him.


If you assume that because I am Catholic that I dont accept Jesus Christ as my Lord and saviour and that he died that I might be redeemed from my sins. Or that I dont look to him for all that is good and right , well... then you dont know me or the Catholic faith very well.

Carry on with your "saving" me though. I need all the help I can get


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## Fish&Chips

In post #41 this Catholic Priest knows everything about the Roman Catholic religion and what it stands for. Don't take my word for it, listen to him.

Nobody is assuming anything here. Can you be saved and be a Catholic? Yes, just like Catholic Priest Sandy Carson stated in the video above. Yet after you study the bible and compare the Catholic Church's practices against the bible, you can't with a clear conscience continue to practice false doctrine. That's if you are studying the bible. 

And to make things clear here, I am in no way saying that Christians are better than anybody else. I know many got their feelings hurt over these posts.

God bless you all my brothers & sisters. Halleluja! Praise the Lord!


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## OnedayScratch

I was sprinkled as an infant in the Catholic church, raised by a devout Catholic/Christian mother, moved in with my Dad at 14 and got dunked as a Baptist. I respect the Catholic belief for the most part but I confess straight to my Lord not another human being. That all said, I semi-joke about my religion as being "Cathodist".

And I'll take the heat....Go Irish!


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## Whodathunkit

OnedayScratch said:


> I was sprinkled as an infant in the Catholic church, raised by a devout Catholic/Christian mother, moved in with my Dad at 14 and got dunked as a Baptist. I respect the Catholic belief for the most part but I confess straight to my Lord not another human being. That all said, I semi-joke about my religion as being "Cathodist".
> 
> And I'll take the heat....Go Irish!


I actually think that makes you a cactus. :doowapsta


----------



## Stumpgrinder

Fish&Chips said:


> In post #41 this Catholic Priest knows everything about the Roman Catholic religion and what it stands for. Don't take my word for it, listen to him.
> 
> Nobody is assuming anything here. Can you be saved and be a Catholic? Yes, just like Catholic Priest Sandy Carson stated in the video above. Yet after you study the bible and compare the Catholic Church's practices against the bible, you can't with a clear conscience continue to practice false doctrine. That's if you are studying the bible.
> 
> And to make things clear here, I am in no way saying that Christians are better than anybody else. I know many got their feelings hurt over these posts.
> 
> God bless you all my brothers & sisters. Halleluja! Praise the Lord!


Glass house, rocks, the ability to throw...... You know the rest.

You accept one persons interpretation as irrefutable truth. I do not.

You worship your way and I'll worship mine. we're probably both wrong


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## Fish&Chips

Stumpgrinder said:


> Glass house, rocks, the ability to throw...... You know the rest.
> 
> You accept one persons interpretation as irrefutable truth. I do not.
> 
> You worship your way and I'll worship mine. we're probably both wrong


Thank you Stumpgrinder. Go in peace my brother. God bless.


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## OnedayScratch

Whodathunkit said:


> I actually think that makes you a cactus. :doowapsta


Too pokey...but I'll take it.


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## WillieT

I will try to add a bit of humor to this thread. I am not trying to pick on the Catholics.

A country boy moved to the city. He was a hunter and every Friday he would fire up the grill an grill himself a venison steak. Several of his neighbors were Catholic and only ate fish on Friday, but they loved the smell of that steak on the grill and is was very tempting to them. They asked him to stop grilling on Friday, but he loved his venison after a hard week at work and just could not stop.

After much thought his neighbors decided they would try to convert him to their religion, as he was a Baptist. After much persuasion, he agreed to become a Catholic. They were sure this would take care of the problem and he would only eat fish on Fridays.

At his conversion baptism, the priest doing be baptism would say born a Baptist, raised a Baptist ,now a Catholic, born a Baptist ,raised a Baptist, now a Catholic, born a Baptist, raised a Baptist, now a Catholic, and it was done.

His neighbors were very happy and thought the problem was taken care of until Friday came. Again they smelled that delicious aroma coming from his back yard. They all gathered and looked over the fence at him. With his head bowed they heard him praying, born a deer, raised a deer, now you are a fish, born a deer, raised a deer, now you are a fish, born a deer, raised a deer, now you are a fish.


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## panamafish

panamafish said:


> i think this is one of the biggest misconception of the catholic faith....there is ***** thing with the belief of succession if you believe that and this is why it is believed in the catholic church to confess to the priest ............Christ told the apostles to follow his example: "As the Father has sent me, even so I send you" (John 20:21). Just as the apostles were to carry Christâ€™s message to the whole world, so they were to carry his forgiveness: "


James 5:16

Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is


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## Fish&Chips

panamafish said:


> James 5:16
> 
> Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is


It is not said, Confess your faults to the Elders that they may forgive them, or prescribe penance in order to forgive them. No; the members of the Church were to confess their faults to each other; therefore auricular confession to a priest, such as is prescribed by the Romish Church, has no foundation in this passage. Indeed, had it any foundation here it would prove more than they wish, for it would require the priest to confess his sins to the people, as well as the people to confess theirs to the priest.


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## finkikin

What ever happened to "each their own"? Of course what ever religion a person is, is going to be the right one and the others are wrong. I don't do religion because religion is just a culture, a way for the church to have their way on you. I believe in God. Period. My question is, how can people know for a fact that their religion is the only way to God? And if that is the case then are the other 1000+ religions around the world doomed? I don't think it works like that...I believe it is a personal relationship with God thing. My $.02


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## Fish&Chips

We either believe everything that Jesus said or we don't believe anything. He is either God the Son or he was just a lunatic. *Jesus said he is the only way to heaven.* There is no other way. I also don't find "to each their own" in the bible.


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## WillieT

Fish&Chips said:


> In post #41 this Catholic Priest knows everything about the Roman Catholic religion and what it stands for. Don't take my word for it, listen to him.
> 
> Nobody is assuming anything here. Can you be saved and be a Catholic? Yes, just like Catholic Priest Sandy Carson stated in the video above. Yet after you study the bible and compare the Catholic Church's practices against the bible, you can't with a clear conscience continue to practice false doctrine. That's if you are studying the bible.
> 
> And to make things clear here, I am in no way saying that Christians are better than anybody else. I know many got their feelings hurt over these posts.
> 
> God bless you all my brothers & sisters. Halleluja! Praise the Lord!


Can any so called Christian religion teach false doctrine, and truly be considered Christian.


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## Doc C

The question should be, "Can the members of the 23,000 different Christian denominations which represent Christ's fractured Body (The Church) all be saved?" 

Read the writings of the Early Church Fathers from 150 to 350 AD to find out how the early Church worshiped and tell me how the Protestant Reformation was a good thing. The Church is one, holy, catholic (universal), and apostolic. When the Protestant reformation occurred Pandora's Box was opened and anyone was free to interpret the Bible in their own way.

Scared Scripture did not fall from the sky and hit Martin Luther in the head. The Canon of the Bible was approved by the the Catholic Church.


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## Fish&Chips

shaggydog said:


> Can any so called Christian religion teach false doctrine, and truly be considered Christian.


Considered Christian by who? By the majority - yes, look around. There are many so called (false) Christians.


----------



## Fish&Chips

Doc C said:


> The question should be, "Can the members of the 23,000 different Christian denominations which represent Christ's fractured Body (The Church) all be saved?"
> 
> Read the writings of the Early Church Fathers from 150 to 350 AD to find out how the early Church worshiped and tell me how the Protestant Reformation was a good thing. The Church is one, holy, catholic (universal), and apostolic. When the Protestant reformation occurred Pandora's Box was opened and anyone was free to interpret the Bible in their own way.
> 
> Scared Scripture did not fall from the sky and hit Martin Luther in the head. The Canon of the Bible was approved by the the Catholic Church.


You are right about the church being fractured and no, I don't believe all the church will be saved. That's why Jesus said that on that day there will be those who will say "I did this and that for you" and God will tell them "depart from me, for I never knew you."


----------



## WillieT

Fish&Chips said:


> Considered Christian by who? By the majority - yes, look around. There are many so called (false) Christians.


Do you think that those that teach false doctrine are considered christians by God and Jesus Christ? What about those that ignore what the scriptures say on such things as homosexuality and welcome them to the flock, put women in the pulpit, those that try to cover up molestation, condone things that are condemned in His Word the Bible? Does God and Jesus look at those ones as true Christians? Do most men? Just something to think about.


----------



## Fish&Chips

shaggydog said:


> Do you think that those that teach false doctrine are considered christians by God and Jesus Christ? What about those that ignore what the scriptures say on such things as homosexuality and welcome them to the flock, put women in the pulpit, those that try to cover up molestation, condone things that are condemned in His Word the Bible? Does God and Jesus look at those ones as true Christians? Do most men? Just something to think about.


It is clear that God calls them false prophets and wolves in sheep's clothing. As for most men - yes, most men consider them Christians still.


----------



## WillieT

Fish&Chips said:


> It is clear that God calls them false prophets and wolves in sheep's clothing. As for most men - yes, most men consider them Christians still.


I am sure you realize that most mainstream religions are doing these things.


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## Stumpgrinder

Every single day , the Catholic Church feeds, educates , shelters and clothes more people than any other institution in the entire world. 

I can't discuss Canon law and the vauguries of biblical interpretation with y'all but I do know what behaving in a Christian manner looks like. Don't lose sight of the forest for the trees.


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## WillieT

Many, many religions, organizations, and individuals do many good things for many people, and that is great. But as a religious organization, or a carrier of God's word, to teach false doctrine is unacceptable in God's eyes, regardless of whatever good you are doing. Those will pay the price.


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## Danny O

Attended a funeral service today in Houston. The priest tells us if we are not Catholic we can not receive communion, but if we want a blessing, get in line and cross your arms over your chest and he would be glad to bless us. What the heck?


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## tngbmt

initially, the rule was written for children that haven't accepted or understand god' presence in the eucharist to come up with their parent during communion. later it apply to those that is conscience of sins that needed reconciliation. half of the time i attend mass, i can't approach the altar to receive the eucharist because after examining my conscience, i fail the 'reconciled with my brother' test. many times i got half way up and remembered i shouldn't. thus, crossing my chest is a way out. for myself, to accept that the eucharist is Christ's body, we have to be 'dressed in wedding clothes' as in the parable of the banquet, to properly receive His body into our house. the catholic church reminds us the gravity of the action at every mass. so many catholics perform these sunday rituals without thinking of god's presence or respect the eucharist. don't be offended .. it's just Tradition.


----------



## WillieT

tngbmt said:


> initially, the rule was written for children that haven't accepted or understand god' presence in the eucharist to come up with their parent during communion. later it apply to those that is conscience of sins that needed reconciliation. half of the time i attend mass, i can't approach the altar to receive the eucharist because after examining my conscience, i fail the 'reconciled with my brother' test. many times i got half way up and remembered i shouldn't. thus, crossing my chest is a way out. for myself, to accept that the eucharist is Christ's body, we have to be 'dressed in wedding clothes' as in the parable of the banquet, to properly receive His body into our house. the catholic church reminds us the gravity of the action at every mass. so many catholics perform these sunday rituals without thinking of god's presence or respect the eucharist. don't be offended .. it's just Tradition.


I appreciate your candor, especially since you are Catholic. I am not trying to criticize, but just ask a question. Do you think God approves of things just because they are "traditional?"


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## TrueblueTexican

*Opened a big can of Gummy Worms*

Martin Luther called the ROMAN church a pit of vipers, and anti-Christs. You must be a student of history and look at how the Roman Church was incorporated and how it has evolved over the centuries -

Catholic doctrine teaches that the Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Christ.

Catholicisim * interprets* the Confession of Peter as acknowledging Christ's designation of Apostle Peter and his successors to be the head of the Roman Church. Catholics believe that the Bishop of Rome has the sole legitimate claim to authority and the primacy due to the Roman Pope as titular confessor to the masses. The Catholic Church *claims legitimacy* for its bishops and priests via the doctrine of apostolic succession and authority of the Pope via an unbroken sucession of popes, all the way back to Simon Peter.

The great thing about the New Testament is that it clearly establishes the major doctrines of the Church. One may find vital doctrines such as the atonement, resurrection and *justification by faith alone*, clearly outlined with many scriptural references (crack your Bible and check me out on this). There is no doubt on the doctrines of the Christian Church, neither is one left in any doubt regarding the specific content of the Gospel message (Acts 16: 30-31; Acts 26:1-23; Romans 4: 24-25; Romans 10: 9-10; 1 Corinthians 2: 1-2; 1 Cor. 15:1-4). With such written clarity, its amazing to me how so many church leaders have managed to successfully teach extraneous, non-biblical messages but this they have certainly done. Thank Lucifer for that ---hwell:

In 313, the struggles of the Early Church were lessened by the legalization of Christianity by the Roman Emperor Constantine I. In 380, under Emperor Theodosius I, *Christianity* became the *state religion* of the Roman Empire by the decree of the Emperor, which would persist until the fall of the Western Empire, and later, with the Eastern Roman Empire, until the Fall of Constantinople. During this time (the period of the Seven Ecumenical Councils) there were considered five primary "HOLY" sees according to Eusebius: Rome, Constantinople, Antioch, Jerusalem and Alexandria, known as the Pentarchy.

After the destruction of the western Roman Empire, the church in the West was a major factor in the preservation of classical civilization, establishing monasteries, and sending missionaries to convert the peoples of northern Europe, as far as Ireland in the north. In the East, the Byzantine Empire preserved Orthodoxy, well after the massive invasions of Islam in the mid-7th century.

The whole period of the next five centuries was dominated by the struggle between Christianity and Islam throughout the Mediterranean Basin. The battles of Poitiers, and Toulouse preserved the Catholic west, even though Rome itself was ravaged in 850, and Constantinople besieged. In the 11th century, already strained relations between the primarily Greek church in the East, and the Latin church in the West, developed into the East-West Schism, partially due to conflicts over Papal Authority. The fourth crusade, and the sacking of Constantinople by renegade crusaders proved the final breach.

In the 16th century, in response to the Protestant Reformation(Martin Luther split), the ROMAN Church engaged in a process of substantial reform and renewal known as the Counter-Reformation. In subsequent centuries, Roman Catholicism spread widely across the world despite experiencing a reduction in its hold on European populations due to the growth of Protestantism and also because of religious scepticism during and after the Enlightenment. The Second Vatican Council in the 1960s introduced the most significant changes to Catholic practices since the Council of Trent three centuries before.

So after reading all this and keen study of history and having Catholics in my family , I have come to the conclusion that SOME Catholic beliefs are the works of deception by Lucifer to confuse and confound.

You see Lucifer is best at telling little lies and getting people to go along with them. Entire DENOMINATIONS have been led down roads which will CERTAINLY enrich HIS KINGDOM. I know PLENTY of devout Catholics who will walk beside me in Heaven at the end of their days , just as I know plenty of practicing Protestants who won't (et tu John Hagee) .

*All of us* must try our beliefs against Gods written word and even before doing that to ask the HOLY SPIRIT to lead us to understanding.

Many THINGS and IDOLS in Catholicism will be as filthy rags before our Creator, same as for Protestants.

The Roman Church set many dates for us that are not HOLY nor are they biblical - the birth of Jesus is one that comes to mind - this celebration and Dec 25th was arbitrarily set to counter the pagan Roman Saturnalia holiday.

I could go on and on but KNOW WHAT YOU KNOW - STUDY to SHOW yourself Approved - otherwise you are just a tinkling symbol--

May God Bless and Keep you , may he cause the LIGHT of his countenance to shine on you !!!!

My hope (salvation) is set on nothing less than Jesus love and righteousness! On CHRIST the solid rock I stand!! all other ground is sinking sand - Jesus FOUNDED THIS CHURCH - its not Catholic nor is it Protestant -


----------



## WillieT

TrueblueTexican said:


> Martin Luther called the ROMAN church a pit of vipers, and anti-Christs. You must be a student of history and look at how the Roman Church was incorporated and how it has evolved over the centuries -
> 
> Catholic doctrine teaches that the Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Christ.
> 
> Catholicisim * interprets* the Confession of Peter as acknowledging Christ's designation of Apostle Peter and his successors to be the head of the Roman Church. Catholics believe that the Bishop of Rome has the sole legitimate claim to authority and the primacy due to the Roman Pope as titular confessor to the masses. The Catholic Church *claims legitimacy* for its bishops and priests via the doctrine of apostolic succession and authority of the Pope via an unbroken sucession of popes, all the way back to Simon Peter.
> 
> The great thing about the New Testament is that it clearly establishes the major doctrines of the Church. One may find vital doctrines such as the atonement, resurrection and *justification by faith alone*, clearly outlined with many scriptural references (crack your Bible and check me out on this). There is no doubt on the doctrines of the Christian Church, neither is one left in any doubt regarding the specific content of the Gospel message (Acts 16: 30-31; Acts 26:1-23; Romans 4: 24-25; Romans 10: 9-10; 1 Corinthians 2: 1-2; 1 Cor. 15:1-4). With such written clarity, its amazing to me how so many church leaders have managed to successfully teach extraneous, non-biblical messages but this they have certainly done. Thank Lucifer for that ---hwell:
> 
> In 313, the struggles of the Early Church were lessened by the legalization of Christianity by the Roman Emperor Constantine I. In 380, under Emperor Theodosius I, *Christianity* became the *state religion* of the Roman Empire by the decree of the Emperor, which would persist until the fall of the Western Empire, and later, with the Eastern Roman Empire, until the Fall of Constantinople. During this time (the period of the Seven Ecumenical Councils) there were considered five primary "HOLY" sees according to Eusebius: Rome, Constantinople, Antioch, Jerusalem and Alexandria, known as the Pentarchy.
> 
> After the destruction of the western Roman Empire, the church in the West was a major factor in the preservation of classical civilization, establishing monasteries, and sending missionaries to convert the peoples of northern Europe, as far as Ireland in the north. In the East, the Byzantine Empire preserved Orthodoxy, well after the massive invasions of Islam in the mid-7th century.
> 
> The whole period of the next five centuries was dominated by the struggle between Christianity and Islam throughout the Mediterranean Basin. The battles of Poitiers, and Toulouse preserved the Catholic west, even though Rome itself was ravaged in 850, and Constantinople besieged. In the 11th century, already strained relations between the primarily Greek church in the East, and the Latin church in the West, developed into the East-West Schism, partially due to conflicts over Papal Authority. The fourth crusade, and the sacking of Constantinople by renegade crusaders proved the final breach.
> 
> In the 16th century, in response to the Protestant Reformation(Martin Luther split), the ROMAN Church engaged in a process of substantial reform and renewal known as the Counter-Reformation. In subsequent centuries, Roman Catholicism spread widely across the world despite experiencing a reduction in its hold on European populations due to the growth of Protestantism and also because of religious scepticism during and after the Enlightenment. The Second Vatican Council in the 1960s introduced the most significant changes to Catholic practices since the Council of Trent three centuries before.
> 
> So after reading all this and keen study of history and having Catholics in my family , I have come to the conclusion that SOME Catholic beliefs are the works of deception by Lucifer to confuse and confound.
> 
> You see Lucifer is best at telling little lies and getting people to go along with them. Entire DENOMINATIONS have been led down roads which will CERTAINLY enrich HIS KINGDOM. I know PLENTY of devout Catholics who will walk beside me in Heaven at the end of their days , just as I know plenty of practicing Protestants who won't (et tu John Hagee) .
> 
> *All of us* must try our beliefs against Gods written word and even before doing that to ask the HOLY SPIRIT to lead us to understanding.
> 
> Many THINGS and IDOLS in Catholicism will be as filthy rags before our Creator, same as for Protestants.
> 
> The Roman Church set many dates for us that are not HOLY nor are they biblical - the birth of Jesus is one that comes to mind - this celebration and Dec 25th was arbitrarily set to counter the pagan Roman Saturnalia holiday.
> 
> I could go on and on but KNOW WHAT YOU KNOW - STUDY to SHOW yourself Approved - otherwise you are just a tinkling symbol--
> 
> May God Bless and Keep you , my he cause the LIGHT of his countenance to shine on you !!!!


This brings the question to my mind, do you support the Catholic church? Not only the Catholic, but many denominations celebrate holidays that are of pagan origin, or the symbols used are of pagan origin. Does God overlook the fact that these are just traditions, and are OK? Do you think he approves of these things, things that are not scriptural?

Indication is that Jesus was born sometimes in late fall, the date is undetermined, but it certainly was not the middle of winter. How many people do you think know this. This is how many religions mislead their flock, and yes, they are influenced by Satan. So the followers of the religions that know their doctrine is false, but continue to follow them are still approved by God?


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## TrueblueTexican

*Diplomatically speaking*

God only holds us ACCOUNTABLE for the witness/understanding born by the Holy Spirit if we are Followers of Christ.

Many are deceived by Lucifer, even Christians who do not study Gods word.

Labels have been used by Lucifer to confound and corrupt Jesus CHURCH. I can only speak to what has been revealed to me. If I point fingers usually I have four pointing back. All I can do is tell what I believe, its up to God to convict and correct.

I know you read and study by your questions - so diplomatically I won't be judge and jury to anyone's faith. Even though at times I wish I had my Hero Simon Peters sword to bash a few folks with --:help:

Those who spread the Gospel in error will be judged harshly if they add or subtract to Gods word.

My biggest fear is that the upcoming judgement years will have many who loose faith due to things taught in error - therefore seek out TRUTH in all things. Truth in Christianity is VITAL, so many have been led in error since Jesus founded HIS Church - our only proof is in Gods word - not in Lucifers dogma.

I support JESUS Church - not what I see today that lies to and confounds so many - what did Jesus say? What do the Gospels say? May God forgive our ignorance.


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## TrueblueTexican

*Further*

We can't be led in error, if we just try teachings against Gods word.

My favorite preacher used to say "try this against Gods word" we get into errors because we try to "interpret" without Spiritual Leadership.

Preachers , Priests are held in too much authority, and all the baby chicks sit in pews eating the worms fed to them.

Lucifer is pretty good at plugging confusion into bully pulpits ---


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## WillieT

TrueblueTexican said:


> God only holds us ACCOUNTABLE for the witness/understanding born by the Holy Spirit if we are Followers of Christ.
> 
> Many are deceived by Lucifer, even Christians who do not study Gods word.
> 
> Labels have been used by Lucifer to confound and corrupt Jesus CHURCH. I can only speak to what has been revealed to me. If I point fingers usually I have four pointing back. All I can do is tell what I believe, its up to God to convict and correct.
> 
> I know you read and study by your questions - so diplomatically I won't be judge and jury to anyone's faith. Even though at times I wish I had my Hero Simon Peters sword to bash a few folks with --:help:
> 
> Those who spread the Gospel in error will be judged harshly if they add or subtract to Gods word.
> 
> My biggest fear is that the upcoming judgement years will have many who loose faith due to things taught in error - therefore seek out TRUTH in all things. Truth in Christianity is VITAL, so many have been led in error since Jesus founded HIS Church - our only proof is in Gods word - not in Lucifers dogma.
> 
> I support JESUS Church - not what I see today that lies to and confounds so many - what did Jesus say? What do the Gospels say? May God forgive our ignorance.


I am sorry if you took it that I was pointing fingers. I did not mean it that way. I was just asking if someone followed a faith that he knew was not teaching or following what is scriptural could he be held accountable? Without a doubt those teaching what is false will be held accountable.

Revelation 21:27 indicates we need to remove ourselves from such things. 27â€¯But anything not sacred and anyone that carries on a disgusting thing and a lie will in no way enter into it; only those written in the Lambâ€™s scroll of life [will].
It is not something we should be a part of. Reinforced at Isiah 52:11 11 Depart ye, depart ye, go ye out from thence, touch no unclean thing; go ye out of the midst of her; be ye clean, that bear the vessels of the LORD.

2 Corinthians 6:14-17 Takes it even further. 
14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

To me it means we will be held accountable also.


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## tngbmt

sigh,
i knew it was coming yet i still posted here among the well studied, have direct link to god folks .. sorry


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## WillieT

tngbmt said:


> sigh,
> i knew it was coming yet i still posted here among the well studied, have direct link to god folks .. sorry


Sorry you feel like you should not have posted. I am only trying to show what is in the scriptures. I thought that was what this forum was intended for. Well studied, yes.


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## TrueblueTexican

*No*



shaggydog said:


> I am sorry if you took it that I was pointing fingers. I did not mean it that way. I was just asking if someone followed a faith that he knew was not teaching or following what is scriptural could he be held accountable? Without a doubt those teaching what is false will be held accountable.
> 
> Revelation 21:27 indicates we need to remove ourselves from such things. 27â€¯But anything not sacred and anyone that carries on a disgusting thing and a lie will in no way enter into it; only those written in the Lambâ€™s scroll of life [will].
> It is not something we should be a part of. Reinforced at Isiah 52:11 11 Depart ye, depart ye, go ye out from thence, touch no unclean thing; go ye out of the midst of her; be ye clean, that bear the vessels of the LORD.
> 
> 2 Corinthians 6:14-17 Takes it even further.
> 14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
> 
> 15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
> 
> 16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
> 
> 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
> 
> To me it means we will be held accountable also.


I didn't take it that way -

We all will stand in judgement docket some day - a wise judge wouldn't admit even one of us through the gates, yet Christ covered our ignorance, just as surely as he will remove our blinders.

I am held accountable for causing even one brother to stumble - i


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## TrueblueTexican

*Not to offend*



tngbmt said:


> sigh,
> i knew it was coming yet i still posted here among the well studied, have direct link to god folks .. sorry


You and I have a direct link to God - he created us in his own image, and since the fall we have all lived in confusion.


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## WilliamH

This is a GREAT video.


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## tngbmt

http://2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/showthread.php?t=546345
http://2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/showthread.php?t=570849

i have to keep reminding myself to read my own posts. sorry.
if i get out of line again, anytime, please tell me .. here or in private. thanks.

shaggy, my response was to the bashing of catholic. sorry for the confusion. i will re-read your post and respond in private.
on tradition, why worry about how god view man's tradition. we don't worship god with tradition. (isaiah 19:13) it is with the intention of doing good, tradition is to make us feel adequate about our self. because we love god, we show our love for god. man can never equate this capability to our creator's love for us or justify our work to be awarded/justify His love. observing His commandments (Matthew 22:36-40) would solve many questions.
i hope you're not telling me that celebrating Christmas on Dec.25th, giving Easter egg hunts or halloween candies condemns my soul to eternal fire. i know you aren't. i read the da vinci code and realized that i don't know history. but i do know god loves me and that is enuf.



> All of us must try our beliefs against Gods written word and even before doing that to ask the HOLY SPIRIT to lead us to understanding


 here's the test. John 8:7, Matthews 7


> he created us in his own image


 and doing my best not to ruin His image


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## Bird

Fish & Chips my friend, I'm not sure why you are on such an anti-catholic bend. You attacked my own personal faith last year over semantics in a latin quote I ended my post with, which had nothing to do with the actual thread which was about the Stations of the Cross. Realize this, as you are so adept at nit picking details, catholics are christians. We, if you follow the history of christianity, are the first christians. The word you are looking for is protestant. We catholics, baptists, assembly of God, lutheran, pentecostal, seventh day adventist etc, are different denominations of christianity.

I was raised in the Assembly of God church and converted to Catholicism years later. Like you, I found what I was looking for in another denomination at a different church. The arguing and dissent amongst christians beating each other's faith up is a victory for the devil. It is through solidarity of our christian faith as a universal church that we, as christians, can be a true positive influence on this world that so desperately needs it.

I know you mean well, but your time and zeal in your faith is better spent preaching the good news to those in true need of it, not proseletysing other christians that are already believers, however we choose to believe.


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## WillieT

To be a true Christian, you must have accurate knowledge. Some religions teach tradition and do not impart accurate knowledge.

It is our responsibility to seek out that accurate knowledge, so see if the teachings of whatever religion we are involved in are in fact teaching from the scriptures. Search out some of the traditions and find out what their origin was.


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## Fish&Chips

Hello Bird. I was merely trying to show how the Catholic Religion can't be Christian if you truely adhere to it's doctines. Most Catholics that I invite to church respond with "I'm Catholic." So that tells me that they don't consider themselves Christians. I do believe that many who consider themselves Catholics will go to heaven because God looks at their hearts and their motives. But those that read and study the bible can easily see how the Catholic Church is not in line with the word of God. 

Yes you are correct that there are many denominations and that is the work of the enemy. The devil is still at work in dividing the church and watering down the gospel. It is very unpopular to preach the truth nowadays because many get offended. Jesus said those that are well have no need for a doctor. Jesus has come to save those who are ill. Those who realize that sin is what makes us sick. Until we look in the mirror and see our true condition, we will continue to be tossed to and fro. 

Just because people look like they have it all together on the outside, doesn't mean that they are fine. It is not only the 4th ward or South Houston that needs to hear the gospel.

btw: Sorry for offending you Bird.


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## Fish&Chips

As a matter of fact, I want to say I'm sorry to all of the Catholics that I have offended. It's all about Jesus Christ...
I am a man with flaws just like eveybody else, yet Jesus Christ is perfect. His love is perfect. Amen.


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## DA REEL DADDY

Fish&Chips said:


> As a matter of fact, I want to say I'm sorry to all of the Catholics that I have offended. It's all about Jesus Christ...
> I am a man with flaws just like eveybody else, yet Jesus Christ is perfect. His love is perfect. Amen.


Thank You so much and apologies accepted on behalf of Christians practicing in the Catholic Faith.

I will ask ahead of time any further judging or bashing of any religion needs to posted in the jungle.

In this note I say we terminate this thread.


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## DA REEL DADDY

DA REEL DADDY said:


> Thank You so much and apology accepted on behalf of Christians practicing in the Catholic religion.
> 
> I will ask ahead of time any further judging or bashing of any religion needs to posted in the jungle.
> 
> On this note I say we terminate this thread.


grammar corrections. sorry toooooooo much coffee.


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## Fish&Chips

btw: There is no religion allowed in the jungle. I'm still banned from the jungle for preaching the gospel down there many, many months ago.


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