# A Challenge



## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

There have been many lies told and accusations made about Jehovah's Witnesses on this forum the last few days.

Last night at our meeting there was an announcement made concerning our district conventions. Our conventions are always held during the summer June-August. This year there will be several International Conventions held in the US. including 4 in Texas. Not all congregations are invited to the international conventions because of space limitations. Our congregation has been invited to one of them. 

It will be held in AT&T Stadium, Jerry World, June 27-29. There will be one or two held at Reliant Stadium in Houston. I do not have the dates, but can get them.

My challenge is this. I invite you to go to one of our conventions, to personally see how things are conducted, then draw your own conclusions, on your observations, not hearsay. If anyone that attends, you only have to attend one day, not all three, but it would be great if you attended all three, and can come back and report anything that resembles a cult, or that our teachings are not Christian, I will never post on this forum, Food for the Soul, again.


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## finkikin (Jul 8, 2011)

It is shame that the only place on this site to get soul food is ran by religion bashing people. Don't blame you Shaggy for leaving, especially after the lynching your religion has been getting lately...seems to be the trend now a days.

Well gentlemen, there's another notch in ya'lls belt.


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## atcfisherman (Oct 5, 2006)

Shaggy,

I apologize to you if you think I was attacking you. That was not my purpose. I would hope you will still post here. All of us are passionate about our beliefs. I have attacked the JW beliefs as I do not agree with them. I probably should not have done so. But you have also enticed argument many times with your attacks on other beliefs.

But the bottom line is we are all sinners saved by the Grace of God through Jesus Christ and we can civilly debate doctrines too. Moving forward I will not attack the JW organization. I hope you accept my apology again and moving forward you have my word that won't happens again. 

Lastly, I hope you stay and may God bless you today. 

To Finn,

You are correct. If outsiders look in at the food for the soul section and see this bashing and arguing, they will be turned off. I apologize to you for contributing to such a shameful debacle. 


In Christ Alone I Place My Trust


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## Fish&Chips (Jan 27, 2012)

finkikin said:


> It is shame that the only place on this site to get soul food is ran by religion bashing people. Don't blame you Shaggy for leaving, especially after the lynching your religion has been getting lately...seems to be the trend now a days.
> 
> Well gentlemen, there's another notch in ya'lls belt.


finkikin did you read his post? He's not leaving, and making him leave was not our intention. He claims to believe the bible and follow Jesus Christ just as most of us do. Therefore when something doesn't align with the word of God, we question it. Nothing wrong with that.

Also when we see something masquerading as Christianity but their fruits show otherwise, we have an obligation to question and inform others about it. And yes we are all sinners, its just that some of us have been redeemed by accepting God's gift of salvation.


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

finkikin said:


> It is shame that the only place on this site to get soul food is ran by religion bashing people. Don't blame you Shaggy for leaving, especially after the lynching your religion has been getting lately...seems to be the trend now a days.
> 
> Well gentlemen, there's another notch in ya'lls belt.


I certainly appreciate your response, I do not think I will be going anywhere. First of all someone has to accept the challenge and actually attend the convention. If they do that I do not believe there is anyway in the world they could come out and TRUTHFULLY say that Jehovah's Witnesses are a cult. Neither do I think that they could possibly TRUTHFULLY say that we are not Christian. I think they would come out with a completely different, and most positive view of us as an organization.

It is easy to look up internet sites that paint a negative picture, as well as spread lies, because of what someone told someone that told someone that told someone else, that is totally not true. I give those ones the opportunity to find out for themselves.

However, if someone does attend, and comes back and say we are a cult or not Christian, I will stand by my word and never post on this forum again.


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

Fish&Chips said:


> finkikin did you read his post? He's not leaving, and making him leave was not our intention. He claims to believe the bible and follow Jesus Christ just as most of us do. Therefore when something doesn't align with the word of God, we question it. Nothing wrong with that.
> 
> Also when we see something masquerading as Christianity but their fruits show otherwise, we have an obligation to question and inform others about it. And yes we are all sinners, its just that some of us have been redeemed by accepting God's gift of salvation.


Find out for yourself. Again you post things without knowing for yourself, quit being led by those that do not know what they are talking about. I have given you an opportunity to see for yourself. If you still hold the same opinions afterward I will do exactly what I said I would. The fact is any religious doctrine was conceived by MAN, be it Catholic, Protestant, whatever. There are may different interpertations of the bible.

We do not masquerade as Christians, and our fruits show that we are Christians, both in the way we live our lives and in our following Christ as the model in our lives.


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## Fish&Chips (Jan 27, 2012)

shaggydog said:


> Find out for yourself. Again you post things without knowing for yourself, quit being led by those that do not know what they are talking about. I have given you an opportunity to see for yourself. If you still hold the same opinions afterward I will do exactly what I said I would. The fact is any religious doctrine was conceived by MAN, be it Catholic, Protestant, whatever. There are may different interpertations of the bible.
> 
> We do not masquerade as Christians, and our fruits show that we are Christians, both in the way we live our lives and in our following Christ as the model in our lives.


So you agree that Jesus is good and without sin?


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## finkikin (Jul 8, 2011)

Fish&Chips said:


> *finkikin did you read his post?* He's not leaving, and making him leave was not our intention. He claims to believe the bible and follow Jesus Christ just as most of us do. Therefore when something doesn't align with the word of God, we question it. Nothing wrong with that.
> 
> Also when we see something masquerading as Christianity but their fruits show otherwise, we have an obligation to question and inform others about it. And yes we are all sinners, its just that some of us have been redeemed by accepting God's gift of salvation.


 Did you? Look at the end of the last sentence...


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

Fish&Chips said:


> So you agree that Jesus is good and without sin?


NEVER have I indicated otherwise. Jesus is the head of the Christian congregation.

Just a personal experience that shows how some of the misconceptions of witnesses get started. I was working door to door, following the example of Jesus and the disciples, with another brother. We knocked on a door and a man came and began to rant and rave at us, which happens. His problem with the witnesses was that we don't believe in Jesus. It just so happened that day that we were in fact distributing an invitation to the upcoming district convention. The theme of the convention was "Follow the Christ." The entire convention was geared toward Jesus and his ministry while on earth.

My point is don't believe everything you read and hear about Jehovah's witnesses. I invite you to find out for yourself.


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## Fish&Chips (Jan 27, 2012)

shaggydog said:


> NEVER have I indicated otherwise. Jesus is the head of the Christian congregation.
> 
> Just a personal experience that shows how some of the misconceptions of witnesses get started. I was working door to door, following the example of Jesus and the disciples, with another brother. We knocked on a door and a man came and began to rant and rave at us, which happens. His problem with the witnesses was that we don't believe in Jesus. It just so happened that day that we were in fact distributing an invitation to the upcoming district convention. The theme of the convention was "Follow the Christ." The entire convention was geared toward Jesus and his ministry while on earth.
> 
> My point is don't believe everything you read and hear about Jehovah's witnesses. I invite you to find out for yourself.


You see, by just reading what you posted above it sounds like you believe that Jesus is God. In fact you are reaffirming what Jesus said in the following verse:

*Mark 10:17-18
*17 Now as He was going out on the road, one came running, knelt before Him, and asked Him, â€œGood Teacher, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?â€
18 So Jesus said to him, â€œWhy do you call Me good? No one _is_ good but One, _that is,_ God. 

Because if you agree that Jesus is good and He himself said that no one is good but God, then Jesus must be God. Right?


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## Fish&Chips (Jan 27, 2012)

finkikin said:


> Did you? Look at the end of the last sentence...


Honestly finkikin, I'm not sure what you mean. Maybe my brain is not working 100% right now but can you explain what you mean?


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

Fish&Chips said:


> You see, by just reading what you posted above it sounds like you believe that Jesus is God. In fact you are reaffirming what Jesus said in the following verse:
> 
> *Mark 10:17-18
> *17 Now as He was going out on the road, one came running, knelt before Him, and asked Him, â€œGood Teacher, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?â€
> ...


You are having a problem understand your own cited scripture that proves my point. When Jesus was asked this question and responded in this manner he was acknowledging that he (Jesus) did not set the standard for good. The standard for good is set by his Father, Jehovah God. If he felt that he set the standard for good, why would he have even asked the question.

Your original question was not too clear, at least to me. I did not have this particular scripture in mind, but I appreciate you bringing it out and helping to prove my point.

This thread was not started to discuss doctrinal differences. It was started to address the unfounded reproach that has been brought on Jehovah's name. I will not debate any more differences on this thread.

Do you accept the challenge?


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## Fish&Chips (Jan 27, 2012)

shaggydog said:


> You are having a problem understand your own cited scripture that proves my point. When Jesus was asked this question and responded in this manner he was acknowledging that he (Jesus) did not set the standard for good. The standard for good is set by his Father, Jehovah God. If he felt that he set the standard for good, why would he have even asked the question.
> 
> Your original question was not too clear, at least to me. I did not have this particular scripture in mind, but I appreciate you bringing it out and helping to prove my point.
> 
> ...


Jesus asked the question because He knew that it applied to Him. He was without sin and He was good and still is.

Thanks for the challenge shaggy but I don't need to attend the JW convention to know that they believe a different gospel (they don't believe Jesus is God). And I know that it would not be evident at the convention because they are very careful on hiding a lot of their questionable doctrine.

Like I said before, nothing against you personally. It's just that I must stand by the truth of God's word.


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## atcfisherman (Oct 5, 2006)

Shaggy,

Let me go on record as saying I should have never accused the JW of being a cult. I was totally out of line and for this I apologize again.


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## finkikin (Jul 8, 2011)

Fish&Chips said:


> Honestly finkikin, I'm not sure what you mean. Maybe my brain is not working 100% right now but can you explain what you mean?


 No, my brain is not up to par this morning. I miss read his last sentence, Sorry about that last post to you, my fault.

My point is, that his religion has already been labeled a cult in this forum. Therefore his religion was lynched in public. Same thing happened to the Catholics here a while back. I am not a member of either one of these two exampled religions but you will not see me degrading them like they have been here.


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## atcfisherman (Oct 5, 2006)

finkikin said:


> My point is, that his religion has already been labeled a cult in this forum. Therefore his religion was lynched in public. Same thing happened to the Catholics here a while back. I am not a member of either one of these two exampled religions but you will not see me degrading them like they have been here.


Finkikin,

You make an excellent point and I was the one who labeled the JW as a cult. I pubically retract that and have PM shaggy with an apology. No one is ever won over by attacking their religion and I have done this to which I am sorry.

Last night the Holy Spirit convicted me that I was totally wrong in my approach. I apologize to Shaggy, the JW and anyone else whom I offended. My achelies heel is I far too often open my mouth without first listening and thinking. God gave me one mouth and two ears and I need to learn to listen twice as much as I speak.

Again, I am truly sorry for all that I have caused.


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

Fish&Chips said:


> Jesus asked the question because He knew that it applied to Him. He was without sin and He was good and still is.
> 
> Thanks for the challenge shaggy but I don't need to attend the JW convention to know that they believe a different gospel (they don't believe Jesus is God). And I know that it would not be evident at the convention because they are very careful on hiding a lot of their questionable doctrine.
> 
> Like I said before, nothing against you personally. It's just that I must stand by the truth of God's word.


Again, I am not going to argue the point of Jesus, he is without sin and his response was because he knew it was Jehovah that set the standard of good. Just because it is Jehovah that sets that standard, it does not mean that Jesus was not good or was sinful, he is the only man that walked the earth and died without sin, but he did not set the standard for good.


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## FINNFOWLER (Sep 2, 2004)

atcfisherman said:


> ...
> 
> To Finn,
> 
> ...


:wink:


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## Fish&Chips (Jan 27, 2012)

shaggydog said:


> Again, I am not going to argue the point of Jesus, he is without sin and his response was because he knew it was Jehovah that set the standard of good. Just because it is Jehovah that sets that standard, it does not mean that Jesus was not good or was sinful, he is the only man that walked the earth and died without sin, but he did not set the standard for good.


Jesus has always been.
Jesus is without sin.
Jesus forgave the sins of others.
Jesus is God.


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

Fish&Chips said:


> Jesus has always been.
> Jesus is without sin.
> Jesus forgave the sins of others.
> Jesus is God.


2 out of 4 is a failing grade

There is only one Alpha and the Omega


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## Tortuga (May 21, 2004)

This is almost tragic to me. Maybe we ought to change the title of the forum from "Food for the Soul" to..".My Religion is Right and Your's is Wrong" There are hundreds if not thousands of religions in the world..Christianity constitutes about a third of them.. Are the vast majority of the people in the world WRONG ??

A few of you have done a bang up job of shredding the Catholics..and now ripping into the Jehovas Witnesses..Think you have pretty well decimated the Mormons... Who is next ???...The Jews...The Hindus ?? The Islamists ?? (I might help you on that one. LOL)

Pitiful.....IMHO...

Edit...pardon...posted this on another thread..meant it to be on this one.


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## Fish&Chips (Jan 27, 2012)

shaggydog said:


> 2 out of 4 is a failing grade
> 
> There is only one Alpha and the Omega


*Revelation 22:*
12 â€œAnd behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward _is_ with Me, to give to every one according to his work. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, _the_ Beginning and _the_ End, the First and the Last.â€[f]


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

Tortuga said:


> This is almost tragic to me. Maybe we ought to change the title of the forum from "Food for the Soul" to..".My Religion is Right and Your's is Wrong" There are hundreds if not thousands of religions in the world..Christianity constitutes about a third of them.. Are the vast majority of the people in the world WRONG ??
> 
> A few of you have done a bang up job of shredding the Catholics..and now ripping into the Jehovas Witnesses..Think you have pretty well decimated the Mormons... Who is next ???...The Jews...The Hindus ?? The Islamists ?? (I might help you on that one. LOL)
> 
> ...


Mister Turtle, I couldn't agree with you more. I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses and I have tried to endure the brunt of the bashings for the last couple of days. Although I can't say I appreciate being bashed, my bashing is not what is important. What causes me great sadness is the our great Almighty God, Jehovah has had His name reproached. Truly what people on this board think of me is not important. Dragging Jehovah's name through the mud is another thing.

While I do not agree with doctrinal issues of most other religions, and vice versa, I have never tried to single out any religion and drag them down. Some on here must think it is fun. I find no amusement in it myself.


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

I wanted to thank all of those that sent messages supporting my stand. I am not saying those supported my doctrines, but I appreciate the kind words.

I just ask to always examine the scriptures closely, meditate on them. See how they apply. I will use an example of the scripture Fish and Chips cited from Mark 10: 17,18.

Mark 10:17-18
17 Now as He was going out on the road, one came running, knelt before Him, and asked Him, â€œGood Teacher, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?â€
18 So Jesus said to him, â€œWhy do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. 

Ask yourself, why did Jesus respond the way he did. He (Jesus) knew that he was good, that he was sinless. So why did he ask and respond the way he did. He did so because he knew that it was his Father that set the standard.

Search the scriptures about Jesus. Look at the Acts of the Apostles. Look at the many prayers that Jesus prayed to his Father. Meditate on those prayers. You will find that Jesus ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS, gave all the credit and glory to his Father Jehovah. That's the way it should be. The glory is to God's alone.


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## Jerry-rigged (May 21, 2004)

Tortuga said:


> This is almost tragic to me. Maybe we ought to change the title of the forum from "Food for the Soul" to..".My Religion is Right and Your's is Wrong" There are hundreds if not thousands of religions in the world..Christianity constitutes about a third of them.. Are the vast majority of the people in the world WRONG ??
> 
> A few of you have done a bang up job of shredding the Catholics..and now ripping into the Jehovas Witnesses..Think you have pretty well decimated the Mormons... Who is next ???...The Jews...The Hindus ?? The Islamists ?? (I might help you on that one. LOL)
> 
> ...


You think these last few fights have been slpitting hairs, just wait till Protestant start going after Protestant. Round 1 Souther baptist vs Luthern will be a nail biter, and the winner will face the victor between Joel Olsten clan vs the Billy Gram Clan...

:spineyes::sarcasm1


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## TrueblueTexican (Aug 29, 2005)

*The fallacy is MANS Church*

I don't really care what Follower of Christs church anyone claims to be rooted in, its just filthy rags to God.

What does God have to say in his word? Man for centuries aided by confusion from the Great Deceiver, has warped and twisted GODS WORD TO MAN, for religious and political purposes, to gain an advantage for arguments sake over those who add to subtract from Gods word and meaning to suit and justify a position, not likely held by the God of Creation.

I disagree with ANYONE who holds a denomination ABOVE Gods word, don't care if its the Universal church, Jehova's witness, Seventh Day Adventists, Baptists , Methodists, Presbytarians, Lutherans, Quakers, Shakers, Mennonites, or Christian Scientists.

*ALL CREATIONS OF MAN NOT JESUS.*

For clarity just do what Jesus would do, its easy to find read the Gospel of Matthew

Shaggy I applaud your tunnel vision, but I would rather see you defending the Gospel, not Jehova's Witness CHURCH.

I really think its critical we go back to Jesus MODEL for HIS Church, and whats important - that is simply to tell other folks, that even though the flesh dies, a belief in Jesus Christ, the Son of a LIVING GOD, asking for forgiveness, and following JESUS teachings as best we can throughout our short time on this globe, will gain security for our immortal spirit, and a place at the right hand of a HOLY, LOVING, JUST CREATOR.

Think on the passage REAL hard this week

Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me. 25"For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it; but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it. 26"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul?â€¦


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

TrueblueTexican said:


> Think on the passage REAL hard this week
> 
> Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me. 25"For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it; but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it. 26"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul?â€¦


This is exactly what I try to do everyday of my life. I try to put Jehovah God and Jesus Christ as the priority in my life and try to do what I know to be their will first, not mine. When we, as witness of Jehovah, are baptized, our pledge is to put His will first. We no longer live for ourselves but for Him.

If you are thinking that we are elevating our religion above Jehovah and Jesus, you have certainly misinterpreted what I was trying to say. We have tried to use the first century Christian congregation as our model, and try to model our lives after Jesus. If you want to criticize me for that, so be it. I would think you are being VERY short sighted, and you are very wrong in the statements you made in your post.

Everyone has an opinion and you are certainly entitled to your, even though it is based on wrong interpretations or assumptions.


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