# Talk about your 410 shotguns



## Johnboat (Jun 7, 2004)

I have never owned one other than a tube on a skeet O/U a long time ago but they always turn my head at gun shows.

Post up if you have one. Do you like it and like shooting it? Is it SxS, O/U, Pump, Auto? Do you shoot skeet, doves, etc. Thanks.


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## DCAVA (Aug 5, 2013)

Learned to wingshoot w/a Harrington & Richardson single shot full choke .410. It was the first gun my Dad bought me on my 8th birthday. My 4 sons learned to wingshoot w/ the same shotgun, and I still have it waiting to teach my gransdons when they come of age.

Have killed doves, quail, ducks and rabbits with that gun....


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

DCAVA said:


> Learned to wingshoot w/a Harrington & Richardson single shot full choke .410. It was the first gun my Dad bought me on my 8th birthday. My 4 sons learned to wingshoot w/ the same shotgun, and I still have it waiting to teach my gransdons when they come of age.
> 
> Have killed doves, quail, ducks and rabbits with that gun....


X2 but didnt have 4 sons only 2.


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## DCAVA (Aug 5, 2013)

CHARLIE said:


> X2 but didnt have 4 sons only 2.


 2 are twin stepsons, but they are also my sons, raised em' from the age of 7.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Good deal and thats the way it should be. Congratulations.


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## Major29 (Jun 19, 2011)

I've got two. Ones a pump Mossberg, sweet shooting gun and it will be passed down to my daughter. The other is a Stevens .410/.22 over and under handed down by my dad, it will be handed down to my son. It is in my opinion the best squirrel gun I've ever had.

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk


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## Rubberback (Sep 9, 2008)

I have a 410 snake charmer does that count?


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## Steve H (Jul 25, 2010)

I have a Yildiz 410 O/U. Hunt dove with it. It is a blast to shoot. I can limit out if they are flying steady. Good gun for the money also.


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## RRfisher (Mar 5, 2007)

Is it me, or are the shells outrageously expensive and hard to find in stores?


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## JimG (May 2, 2005)

My first gun was a Mossberg single shot bolt action. Shots EVERYTHING with it...still have it...

Next is a Yildiz .410, just gotta decide between SXS & OU...head says OU, but heart LOVES the little SXS!


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## Bull Fish (Nov 15, 2006)

I have a few. I learned to wing shoot with a robuck single bolt as my oldest has. Then I have a couple that are old enough to museum pieces that I need to dig out and post pictures some day.


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## mywifeshusband (Nov 19, 2006)

My 410 is a pistol and the buzz worms an ***** hate it but I shot a AK 410 and it rocked. It belongs to a friend at PFC and I shot it once at the skeet range and did bust the clay was a real rush. Beau


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## jrg_80 (Aug 13, 2009)

Last year I started shooting a pump that my dad had bought for my sisters many years ago just to make dove hunting a little more challenging and competitive....I moved up to a SKB G7C o/u w/30" barrels and to be honest THAT gun and I are a deadly combo. You will walk a little taller the 1st day you bust a limit of dove with your 410 I promise.

jrg


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## horned frog (Nov 9, 2008)

Mine is a pump .410, maybe a savage or Stevens. It's disassembled in a box, just like I got it. Someone's unfinished restoration project. Wish I could find it a good home, it's a project that I'm not likely going to finish.


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## poco jim (Jun 28, 2010)

DCAVA said:


> Learned to wingshoot w/a Harrington & Richardson single shot full choke .410. It was the first gun my Dad bought me on my 8th birthday. My 4 sons learned to wingshoot w/ the same shotgun, and I still have it waiting to teach my gransdons when they come of age.
> 
> Have killed doves, quail, ducks and rabbits with that gun....


X2, wasn't a H&R, must be something about growing up in the valley. Charlie, you from the valley? LMAO:cheers:


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## Never easy (Mar 20, 2006)

stevens single shot break over, dont know where or when dad got it but i learned with it. still have it probably be what my daughters get to learn with like i did.


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## larrymac1 (Dec 8, 2011)

Mine is a Marlin .410 bolt action. Got it by answering one of those ads on the back of comic books from way back. Signed up and sold embossed Christmas cards door to door in July and August in the Panhandle. Had to have a parents signature to get it and Dad signed. I can't remember how many boxes I had to sell but it was a bunch. My first real gun. Shot just about every upland game bird with it. Hunted pheasants with no problem, but you gotta shoot quick to get enough shot in them to bring them down. BTW my son has it now and in time it will pass to my granddaughter.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

poco jim

No sir not from down that way.Spend lot of time there now. Born and raised in Houston but spent lots of time with my GPaw on the San Bernard river before lights and running water. Still remember shooting the old H&R almost knocked me down. LOL. I had a hard time pulling the hammer back back in those days. Too bad kids now days are not able to experience things like that.


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## wal1809 (May 27, 2005)

Steve H said:


> I have a Yildiz 410 O/U. Hunt dove with it. It is a blast to shoot. I can limit out if they are flying steady. Good gun for the money also.


X2 ^^^^^


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## JAG_361 (Oct 25, 2013)

Have a sÃ—s Rossi love it wide lives to wing shot with it. Also have a pump handed down to me from my grandmother killed lots of squirrel. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


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## flatscat1 (Jun 2, 2005)

I have several .410 over unders. It is a really great and fun calliber to shoot. Small bore will make you a better shot, no doubt. We've been shooting them for dove/quail for years and it makes it quite a bit more fun and sporting. I'll see if I can find some pics.


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## llred (Jun 30, 2008)

I have an old savage .410/22mag O/U. It was my first real gun and I have hunted everything with it. I even shot a few hogs back in the day with slugs. I also have my grandfathers winchester pump. I'm not sure of the model. I don't use it as I am always scared of messing it up. It is very nice and has a 30" barrell on it.


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## Steve H (Jul 25, 2010)

jrg_80 said:


> Last year I started shooting a pump that my dad had bought for my sisters many years ago just to make dove hunting a little more challenging and competitive....I moved up to a SKB G7C o/u w/30" barrels and to be honest THAT gun and I are a deadly combo. You will walk a little taller the 1st day you bust a limit of dove with your 410 I promise.
> 
> jrg


Yep, I save my empties and hand them out at the end of the day to all the guys shooting 12 ga's. Tell them thats how a man does it!


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## THE JAMMER (Aug 1, 2005)

Love 410's. Here are mine.

1.First gun ever a side by side Ranger 410. I refinished it about 10 yrs ago and it looks like new. It is still my favorite dove/quail gun.

2. AYA side by side with upgraded wood. Incredibly light and fun to shoot.

3. My kid's first shot gun: the classic NEF single shot 410. Keeping it for him to give it to his son.

Then the one that got away, and I should have never sold: a Remington Express 870 pump 410. Had a buddy bore it out to modified, and it was one fine/fun gun. Unfortunately I sold it to justify buying another gun. WISH I STILL HAD IT.


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## DCAVA (Aug 5, 2013)

THE JAMMER said:


> Love 410's. Here are mine.
> 
> 1.First gun ever a side by side Ranger 410. I refinished it about 10 yrs ago and it looks like new. It is still my favorite dove/quail gun.
> 
> ...


NICE!!


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

Great gun to have around the ranch....squirrels, snakes, whatever. Mine is a Remington pump. 

Amo is on the expensive side is my only complaint....but very nice utility gun.


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## Johnboat (Jun 7, 2004)

*Sighting plane of 410 S x S*

It seems to me that side by side would be the way to go in a 410. I can't get used to the wide plane for side by sides in 12 or 20 and the tiny plane of a single bbl or o/u in 410 is also hard to get used to. But the side by side in 410 is about like a 12 gauge single or o/u isn't it?

Jammer: I really like that middle gun. Thanks for posting.


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## outtotrout09 (Apr 21, 2009)

I have a nice Remington 1100 410.


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## daddyeaux (Nov 18, 2007)

My first was a Mossberg single shot. Could probably fill a pickup with all the squirrels it killed. Great little gun, only have a Snake Charmer now, some POS thief stole the Mossberg.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

We have a 11-48 410 remington auto.


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## [email protected] (May 24, 2004)

*.410 Dove Guns*

I use an Yildiz 410 o/u and a Remington 1100 Sporting 410 for doves most of the time unless it is a windy day or I know that I'll be pass shooting mostly high fliers; then it's usually a 28, 20, or 16 o/u, whichever pleads the loudest when I look in the gun safe.

The .410 is a hoot for dove shooting if you have the patience to wait for shots inside 25 yards, as in evening waterhole shooting over a Mojo. Good ammo is a bit pricey, but then so are the 28s and 16s. But as a man once told me, "Add it all up; ammo is the cheapest part of the trip."


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## THE JAMMER (Aug 1, 2005)

Johnboat said:


> It seems to me that side by side would be the way to go in a 410. I can't get used to the wide plane for side by sides in 12 or 20 and the tiny plane of a single bbl or o/u in 410 is also hard to get used to. But the side by side in 410 is about like a 12 gauge single or o/u isn't it?
> 
> Jammer: I really like that middle gun. Thanks for posting.


It really is a sweet gun. AYA 453 I got new from a guy who put really nice upgraded wood on them for only about a $299 up charge. I actually also put some briley choke tubes in it. Also have the 453 in a 28 ga, and a Grulla side lock in a 20 ga. All very nice guns.


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## shooterstx (Dec 20, 2011)

Why is no one 'fessing up to all the cripples and fringed birds that are lost. Sure, .410 is great for introducing new guys and youngsters to our wonderful sport (also a good snake disposal tool), and it's necessary for serious 4 gun skeet. But as a general, sporting game gun, NO WAY. Graduate those youngsters and newbies to a 20 with light loads as soon as feasible.


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## THE JAMMER (Aug 1, 2005)

shooterstx said:


> Why is no one 'fessing up to all the cripples and fringed birds that are lost. Sure, .410 is great for introducing new guys and youngsters to our wonderful sport (also a good snake disposal tool), and it's necessary for serious 4 gun skeet. But as a general, sporting game gun, NO WAY. Graduate those youngsters and newbies to a 20 with light loads as soon as feasible.


Shooterstx,

You are certainly correct, that's why I use very tight chokes, modified or tighter, when I hunt dove or quail with one of my 410's.

That keeps everything tight, so you either hit them with a good bunch of shot, or you totally miss. Keeps the cripples to a minimum. Remember a number 7 1/2 shot at 1200 fps doesn't know whether it came out of a 12 ga bbl or a .410 bbl. It still has the same killing energy. It's the number of shot hitting the bird that can make the 410 less lethal. So by concentrating the shot, I miss more birds, but when I hit them, it's pretty solid.

I totally agree regarding your statement about starting out our kids. Why would we start them out with a gun that most fathers cannot even shoot- a single shot, full choke 410. The best gun I found for my kid, after I had bought the single shot, was a Remington 870 Junior- not a youth, a Junior. The pull is an extra 1" shorter than the youth, and it has a 20" bbl. Light enough, and easy enough for a youngster to swing and shoot, plus it's a 20 ga, which will increase his chance of actually killing something- thus re enforcing the quality of the experience. If they hunt, shoot, and hit nothing, too many times of that, and some will lose interest- the worst possible outcome.

Plus that junior, can be upgraded with a youth stock, once they grow, and can then be upgraded again to a full length stock and longer bbl for a 20 pump they will have their whole life- keeping the old stocks and bbl's for their kids.

budda bing budda boom !!!!!


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## Steve H (Jul 25, 2010)

shooterstx said:


> Why is no one 'fessing up to all the cripples and fringed birds that are lost. Sure, .410 is great for introducing new guys and youngsters to our wonderful sport (also a good snake disposal tool), and it's necessary for serious 4 gun skeet. But as a general, sporting game gun, NO WAY. Graduate those youngsters and newbies to a 20 with light loads as soon as feasible.


I shoot dove with full and modified choke 11/16 OZ 3" load. I have more open chokes but I target practice with them. I may miss but with a tight pattern the chance of wounding is minimal as said you have to pick your shots.

Someone shooting a 12 gauge with an improved cylinder sky blasting at everything that comes over typically will wound or cripple more than I do.


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## DCAVA (Aug 5, 2013)

All my boys are shooting 12ga now, before that was 20ga as did I growing up. The full choke of the .410 makes you an accurate shot with lots of practice while building wingshooting foundations and proficiency.

We don't hardly take the old .410's in the field anymore, they're waiting for the next generation in our family to get a little older. :wink:


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## [email protected] (May 24, 2004)

Shooterstx - Did you notice what I said about patience to keep all shots within 25 yds? As in waterhole shooting over a Mojo?

You're right in what you say about the .410 being a potential crippler (in careless hands), but so is any other gauge shotgun if you carry that logic far enough. I do not believe that using a .410 bore for a certain class of shooting automatically relegates all who choose to hunt with that size shotgun into a category of having anything to fess up to. Some of us understand the limitations of the gun... and also our own.


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## jrg_80 (Aug 13, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Shooterstx - Did you notice what I said about patience to keep all shots within 25 yds? As in waterhole shooting over a Mojo?
> 
> You're right in what you say about the .410 being a potential crippler (in careless hands), but so is any other gauge shotgun if you carry that logic far enough. I do not believe that using a .410 bore for a certain class of shooting automatically relegates all who choose to hunt with that size shotgun into a category of having anything to fess up to. Some of us understand the limitations of the gun... and also our own.


Very we'll said. 
As stated above those of us that choose to hunt with a 410 know their range and have enough discipline when selecting shots. ALSO, as stated in previous post, you give a person a 12ga with a IC choke and he goes blasting at any dove that he can see. We as hunters have to be courteous and respectful of any and all game we shoot regardless for gauge or caliber we pursue them with. With that being said, keep the bashing of those that choose to pursue said game(or any game) that doesn't meet your "qualifications" in check and make more educated comments in the future.

jrg


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## Nwilkins (Jan 18, 2009)

I started shooting doves at 6 or 7 with a side by side Ranger 410 my dad refinished and gave it to my son, who is now 25 

Almost positive its killed more birds that any shotgun in our family, has a patent date on the barrel that is like Aug 1911 or 1901

Need to go look at it


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

To criticize the 410 as being inadequate to hunt with is stretching it a little. Sure it has its limitations but so do 12 or 10 guages. I have seen folks hunting with them who miss or cripple more birds than others shooting smaller guns. Its not the gun its the shooter. Hate to tell you the 410 shoots just as hard as a 12 ga just fewer pellets. Jus sayin. I would be shootin a 410 for dove if the ammo wasnt so expensive. I shoot a 20 so I guess I am almost undergunned LOL


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## [email protected] (May 24, 2004)

This whole "killing power" discussion is confusing to many hunters but it really is quite simple if you run some numbers. Let's compare the .410 and 20 gauge, both with I/C chokes. The .410 load is 3" 11/16 ounce of 7-1/2 shot at about 1160 fps. The 20 gauge load is 2-3/4" 7/8 ounce of 7-1/2 shot at a nominal 1200-1225 fps. This is a heavy .410 load and a light 20 gauge load - both of which (load and choke combo) are commonly used by dove and quail shooters here in Texas.

"Killing power" is not magic - it is simply the amount of energy required to render the target species inoperative. The energy is transferred via lead pellets. In this case the pellets are the same size, launched at approximately the same velocity (near enough), the .410 load has 242 pellets and the 20 gauge has 306.

I/C choke standard specs describe pattern efficiency as 100% @ 15 yards, 90% @ 20yds, 80% @ 25, 70% @ 30, 60% @ 35, 50% @ 40yds.

Assuming the shooter can accurately center the I/C pattern on a flying bird the same with a .410 bore shotgun as he can with a 20 gauge --- then in the ballistics calculation based on parameters listed above --- the .410 bore actually holds a teeny-weenie mathematical advantage at 30 yards over the 20 gauge at 40 yards! Not only will the .410 theoretically place a few more pellets in the pattern, the pellets will be traveling a few fps faster; i.e. greater retained energy per pellet.

The key to utilizing the "killing power" of the .410 bore shotgun with "magnum" loads compared to the 20 gauge with light upland/field loads is simply a matter of limiting your shooting distance. The problem though, is living up to the commitment of sportsmanship that a sub-gauge gunner must bind himself to before heading to the field. Frankly, I enjoy dove shooting with my sub-gauge guns (.410 and 28) way more than with my 20s, 16s, and 12s... but then a limit shoot at my age is not as important as it was 40 years ago. -EJ


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## Johnboat (Jun 7, 2004)

*Doves vs Quail*

Doves are fragile. One pellet anywhere and bird goes down and mostly stays down. Great for a 410.

Quail on the other hand have both wing and leg mobility. I am not good enough and don't get a good hunt often enough to even attempt with a small bore. And if its windy and/or the birds are flushing wild, fuggedaboudit.


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## Logan (Aug 7, 2009)

Love my 870 wingmaster. Hard to beat when chasing cat squirrels


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> This whole "killing power" discussion is confusing to many hunters but it really is quite simple if you run some numbers. Let's compare the .410 and 20 gauge, both with I/C chokes. The .410 load is 3" 11/16 ounce of 7-1/2 shot at about 1160 fps. The 20 gauge load is 2-3/4" 7/8 ounce of 7-1/2 shot at a nominal 1200-1225 fps. This is a heavy .410 load and a light 20 gauge load - both of which (load and choke combo) are commonly used by dove and quail shooters here in Texas.
> 
> "Killing power" is not magic - it is simply the amount of energy required to render the target species inoperative. The energy is transferred via lead pellets. In this case the pellets are the same size, launched at approximately the same velocity (near enough), the .410 load has 242 pellets and the 20 gauge has 306.
> 
> ...


Pretty good info there, thanks and I agree. The limit is not as important as it was years ago along with other things. LOL


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## THE JAMMER (Aug 1, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> This whole "killing power" discussion is confusing to many hunters but it really is quite simple if you run some numbers. Let's compare the .410 and 20 gauge, both with I/C chokes. The .410 load is 3" 11/16 ounce of 7-1/2 shot at about 1160 fps. The 20 gauge load is 2-3/4" 7/8 ounce of 7-1/2 shot at a nominal 1200-1225 fps. This is a heavy .410 load and a light 20 gauge load - both of which (load and choke combo) are commonly used by dove and quail shooters here in Texas.
> 
> "Killing power" is not magic - it is simply the amount of energy required to render the target species inoperative. The energy is transferred via lead pellets. In this case the pellets are the same size, launched at approximately the same velocity (near enough), the .410 load has 242 pellets and the 20 gauge has 306.
> 
> ...


Well seD there EJ. And that is why one should shoot one tighter choke with a 410 than with a 20 or larger. That way you have a smaller pattern, but the shot are more concentrated. Because that killing power is a combination of the energy of the individual pellet PLUS the density of the load- number of pellets in the bird.

Now to totally muddy the waters, there has been no discussion about shot string- how long, etc. It has been said that the 28 ga shell has the most efficient shape (diameter vs. length) for the most uniform shot string.

When we pattern our guns on paper, we tend to think in two dimensional terms- left/right, up/down. That dove is 3 dimensional: width, height, and DEPTH. If a shot string is very long, way strung out, a smaller percentage of the pellets will arrive at the dove, when the dove is there. The longer the string, the more pellets will go in front of, behind, or both. Now with a longer string you have a better chance of actually hitting the bird with SOME pellets, and can take care of a bad lead, but the down side is fewer pellets on the bird.

I would tend to think, because of the shape of a 410 3" shell, that it would have a longer shot string, and that could well be a valid reason for saying there is a lot of wounding with the 410. It might all be because of shot string length. I believe Bob Brister, the guru, did some testing on shot strings by shooting at a moving target. In that test the longer the pattern, left to right, the longer the shot string, because it spread out along the target as it passed by. Theoretically, if the entire shot load had a shot string length of 1", every pellet would hit in a perfect circle on a moving target. But because it has some length, it spreads out.

POT STIRRED!!!


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## [email protected] (May 24, 2004)

JAMMER - You're right on the money with the shot-string comments, and indeed Bob Brister probably did more testing in this regard than all the others put together. The only guy I've read and studied that has made as much sense is Tom Roster and he is mentioned numerous times in Brister's signature work; _Shotgunning - The Art and Science._

You also mention the 28 bore, the patterning potential of which almost seems to defy physics - but that's what a balance in bore and shot column height/length will get you and the .410 does suffer considerably in that department although today's wads and powders make the 3-inchers better than ever in the decades past.

What the whole thing boils down to in my book is common sense and shooting practice. Go out and shoot 25 clays in any game with a 12 and then follow it with a .410 --- that alone should be enough of a reminder to keep the distances short and concentrate on the swing and follow-through. I love wing-shooting and the more challenging the better. I just got back from an Ontario ruffed grouse hunt and believe me those little birds will humble the best shooters in a heartbeat with their speed and twisting flights. I did NOT use a .410! -EJ


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## Johnboat (Jun 7, 2004)

*Bob Brister shot string testing*

This was posted before. Brister had his wife tow this and shot the paper.


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## THE JAMMER (Aug 1, 2005)

Johnboat, I really cannot see that picture and what it shows. Anyway to clean it up a bit. or describe what it is showing?


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## daddyeaux (Nov 18, 2007)

It looks like a piece of paper with the silhouette of a dove drawn on the paper. I can see four dove on the paper above the figures at bottom. And it looks like the paper was shot.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Also the number of pellets in the target not only depend on shot string but the speed of the target. Saying that I dont think the speed of a dove is going to be faster than the nanosecond of the shotstring. Wow we can get off into such technicalities.


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## [email protected] (May 24, 2004)

From my memory of the Brister book - What the image clearly demonstrated was that shot-stringing was confirmed with the target traveling 40 mph, something a pattern board alone will not reveal. Some of the pellets would be on target (I believe the first outline of a flying duck was aim point) and quite a few arrived at the plane of target after it had traveled as much as several feet as part of the string had yet to arrive. No other explanation or illustration helped me understand why crossing shots are so commonly missed or the bird is only crippled. Of course nearly all of Brister's testing was done with lead shot. Today's steel does not string as badly, or so we're told, and much of the technology of shotgun chokes and modern wads can be thanked for this. For whatever it's worth -- 90 degree crossing shots with healthy forward allowance and complete follow-through seem to work best for me (even with all the modern technology baked-in.)


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Gonna be some stringing on the target but caint convince me its gonna be several feet. I mite go for several inches tho. Good discussion especially around a campfire. Figure 40 MPH vs 1,000 fps.Not even close. Think I wil retract my several inch statement. Maybe a very little bit but not much. Next will be the swinging of the barrel. How long does it take for the shot to leave the barrel. Where we going with this LOL..


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## Spooley (Feb 24, 2013)

Had a Stevens O/U 22/.410 that Granny let me shoot as a youngster till a burglar stole it.


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## Johnboat (Jun 7, 2004)

*Thats about it*



[email protected] said:


> From my memory of the Brister book - What the image clearly demonstrated was that shot-stringing was confirmed with the target traveling 40 mph, something a pattern board alone will not reveal. Some of the pellets would be on target (I believe the first outline of a flying duck was aim point) and quite a few arrived at the plane of target after it had traveled as much as several feet as part of the string had yet to arrive. No other explanation or illustration helped me understand why crossing shots are so commonly missed or the bird is only crippled. Of course nearly all of Brister's testing was done with lead shot. Today's steel does not string as badly, or so we're told, and much of the technology of shotgun chokes and modern wads can be thanked for this. For whatever it's worth -- 90 degree crossing shots with healthy forward allowance and complete follow-through seem to work best for me (even with all the modern technology baked-in.)


Brister had a large paper on a holder that he had on a trailer. It was several feet long. Those are ducks, probably lifesize that he drew on the paper. His wife drove the tow vehicle across a pasture at 40 MPH 40 yards away, and he lead the first duck and fired (bob of course knew how much to lead a 40 mph crossing target at 40 yds, a very experienced shooter) . Then he got a marker and circled the pellet holes to show how the shot strung out from the first duck to the right.

Some of the engineers here are over-engineering IMO. Yes the shot strings out a long way...several feet. An experienced skeet shooter can see the results of where the target intersects the string. At either end due to shooting or leading early or late it may break or chip. But if you do a perfect lead and timing, your target intersects the beginning of the shot string and flies through most of the string until it is pulverized or "smoked" into nothing but dust. That's why some shooters call it "grinding" the targets when they are really hot.


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## Johnboat (Jun 7, 2004)

*Shot stringing*

Supporting our engineers, at least with steel and other super hard non toxic shot (as opposed to soft lead shot Brister tested) here is a newer video with high speed photography). http://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs/gun-nuts/2011/08/measuring-shot-string-high-speed-video


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## [email protected] (May 24, 2004)

Yes - Brister's wife towed the targets at 40 mph on a trailer behind his station wagon, 40 yards distance from the firing line.

As for understanding the stringing phenomenon, and mind you now these tests were made with #5 lead Winchester Super X 1.5 ounce 12 gauge 2-3/4 inch duck loads as I recall (premium stuff for that era that Brister himself and Tom Roster helped Winchester develop):

-Deformation of pellets while being slammed down the barrel by rapidly expanding propellant gases causes some to fly slower than others, becoming slightly flat-sided and all.

-Variations in uniformity of size and density of individual pellets also contributes to some pellets flying and retaining energy better than others.

So do the math:

-A target traveling 40 mph is moving 59 fps.
-Retained pellet velocity at 40 yards is probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 500 fps (average).
-The elapsed time between the strike of the first pellet and the last in a shot-string that measured 2.5 left to right would only need to be 0.025 seconds by my calculation. That's two and one half hundredths of a second. Evidently it happens every shot!


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## Johnboat (Jun 7, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> Yes - Brister's wife towed the targets at 40 mph on a trailer behind his station wagon, 40 yards distance from the firing line.
> 
> As for understanding the stringing phenomenon, and mind you now these tests were made with #5 lead Winchester Super X 1.5 ounce 12 gauge 2-3/4 inch duck loads as I recall (premium stuff for that era that Brister himself and Tom Roster helped Winchester develop):
> 
> ...


I think I understand the math. But what I really understand is that the shot at a 16 foot towed piece of paper at 40 mph starts at the first bird image and extends all the way to the fourth bird image or thereabouts. If mathematically there is not enough time to make any difference, how come the shot on Brister's target extends that many feet of the 16 feet long paper? If those were ducks flying that close together, he would have hit several of them. But I am no engineer.


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## BRH (May 11, 2011)

Mine is a Beretta 687 Silver Pigeon II EELL .410/28ga combo. I like to shoot skeet with the .410 and birds with the 28. the picture is with the 28 barrel on it


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Sorry but the math doesent support what folks are saying. Sure there is a shot string even if it is 6 feet long how long does it take at say 800 fps to totally impact the target ? Effect would be really not worth worrying about being practible. Maybe an inch or so. How far would the target travel at 40 MPH vs total pellet impact ?Sometimes (well a bunch) we make mountains out of mole hills. Fun to discuss tho.


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## Moonpie (Jun 20, 2004)

A hilarious .410 story happened years ago with some dove hunting buddies and myself. 
One of our group was always on the prowl for cheap guns. 
He showed up on an afternoon hunt with a single barrel 410 of some type. It was rusted up and the forearm was split but hey! I only paid twenty dollars!
The doves cooperated and we had a good shoot. Except MrCheapskate. 
He was getting upset because he couldn't knock any birds down. 
We were hunting around a small pond. There was an old fence that once crossed the pond and it had deteriorated to a single strand of barbed wire over the very center of the pond about 3ft above the water. It was an ideal pot shooters spot. 
We had limited out and it was getting late. MrCheapskate was raging about his 410 being a real killer but so far he hadn't killed a bird. 
Just about that time a big fat dove comes in and lands on the wire right in the middle of the pond. We all see it and get quiet. Hey Mr410 there ya go. 
So he takes very careful aim and pulls trigger. 
And what happened? He had a SQUIB shell. His mighty 410 went sort of BLOOP! And pellets just spattered out there. They were plopping into the water! The dove just left. We roared with laughter.


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## Johnboat (Jun 7, 2004)

*Now that's Cadillackin*



BRH said:


> Mine is a Beretta 687 Silver Pigeon II EELL .410/28ga combo. I like to shoot skeet with the .410 and birds with the 28. the picture is with the 28 barrel on it


No 410 here yet (working on that) but I have a similar SPII Sporting in 28 ga with 30" bbls. Sweet guns. Your combo is a beaut' !


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## Johnboat (Jun 7, 2004)

*I am a new member of the 410 club*

I bought one like this and just received it. Mfg in Turkey by Huglu and imported by CZ-USA. It is amazing what I got for $599.95. I haven't shot it yet but but it has passed the home trial of mounting it and dry firing. Really nice finishes for a gun this price. And at this price I won't be afraid to take in into the field. One reason it is economical is that it does not have screw chokes which I think are not as important on a 410. Also, the dual triggers are simpler to make than a selective single trigger mechanism.

This seller apparently special ordered a group as the box says Jons special. It is similar to the CZ Bobwhite that I have seen recently at a gun show. That gun show seller said he had to wait a long time for it and wanted $850 for it plus tax ( Tag said $895). This version has silver metal trim. The pictures are accurate.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=376092466


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## Chase4556 (Aug 26, 2008)

My first gun after a pellet rifle was an Old New England break barrel .410. I was probably 7 or 8 when I got it. I still have it, but don't ever really shoot it. A buddy of mine borrowed it a few years ago to get his son shooting with it. 

I now also have a Mossberg 500 home defense 410. My grandfather passed about 3 years ago, and we found it with the other guns in his house. The last time I saw it I was again probably only 7 or 8 and could not even pump it by myself, he had to. It was rusted up pretty bad, so I re blued the barrel and shell tube. Looks brand new, and is a hoot to shoot.


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## fish fry (May 19, 2007)

My son bought me a yildiz side by side for fathers day this year. I love the gun. I haven't dove hunted with it because of the way the safety works. It is the first double barrel that I have seen that requires the safety to be pulled down, moved over to the right and pushed back up between shots. Kinda slows you down alittle bit. I'm not a crack shot shooting birds on the fly so I'll have to practice a while.


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## SeaOx 230C (Aug 12, 2005)

I have a Stevens Model 59A I think, made in the Chickapee Mass. Plant. The plant was later converted to make WW2 millitary weapons. It was my Great Granpa's. It is bolt action with tubular magazine. Anyone seen of these?


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## JimG (May 2, 2005)

> My son bought me a yildiz side by side for fathers day this year. I love the gun. I haven't dove hunted with it because of the way the safety works. It is the first double barrel that I have seen that requires the safety to be pulled down, moved over to the right and pushed back up between shots. Kinda slows you down alittle bit. I'm not a crack shot shooting birds on the fly so I'll have to practice a while.


That does not sound right... mine does not do that...


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## camarokid (Dec 27, 2011)

*Old Mossberg*

I wanted one for the longest time and never got around to buying one. Last November I stopped by a Pawn Shop in Spring just to see what was there. I found a 185D that dated back to the 1950's. I ended up scooping it up for $75. Less than 3 weeks later the shooting at Sandy Hook took place and guns everywhere skyrocketed. The same gun goes on Gunbroker for around $150 - $200.

I really didn't need a .410, I just always wanted one and the price seemed pretty good. Overall the gun is in good shape. I have shot it a handfull of times; and everytime it makes me feel like a kid again. I think it will be one of those guns that I will never get rid of, just because it was only $75 bucks, and already over 50 years old.

.410's are a Hoot to Shoot, when you can afford the shells.


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## fish fry (May 19, 2007)

(JimG) How does yours work? I will post a pic on here to see if yours looks the same. Like I said, I've never seen a safety like it.


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