# Little Talk on .org ...



## Putter Parpart (Feb 10, 2007)

For anyone interested, there's a bit of mention of the 2Cool/FTU Get-Together here:

http://www.rodbuilding.org/read.php?2,262565

Not sure that Bill Stevens really knew much about how the whole thing got going, that this was just a bunch of rod builders needing a place to get together at and share some rod building information.

Having it at FTU argueably creates a problem of sorts with no competing businesses having booths there, but I think everyone involved here kinda knew that was the way it would be when this is held at a private component retailer's business place? I sure did.

I don't think that anyone ever gave much of a darn about that end of things; just wanted a nice place that everyone could make it to and meet and have some rod building seminars and a fun time.

I'm glad that everyone who worked on this got it going like you did. I know it was quite a bit of time laid out by some of you and my hat's off to you. I hope everyone who attends it has a great time and the learning and sharing that are such a strong part of this board's membership continues on as it is.


----------



## Fishtoys (Jul 4, 2007)

*Ain't that something*

Well ain't that something, looks like someone (B.S) needs an invite to H. I'll give him the same invite I gave T.K. and the best part about it its free. (lol).


----------



## pg542 (Oct 9, 2006)

Let's see,,,,,When this idea first came about, trying to "clone" anybodys show wasn't the intention. Yes, if my memory serves me correctly, and it does, the whole idea was a gathering of regional rodbuilders for an informal meet and greet to get to know one another, share ideas, techniques etc. with other members of this board as well as anyone else interested in the same. Mlv, Putter, Fishtoys as well as many, many others had a hand in getting this thing off the ground. I proposed this idea to our host and after a little "testing the waters" they agreed. Once the wheels were rolling, a 2cool member attempted to post an announcement on another board which was removed in what can only be described as a nanosecond. I, for one( and I doubt that I'm alone) am very grateful to the folks at FTU for hosting this event. I know it is no small undertaking to have an event like this with no guarantee of return. No one is blind to the fact that it is possible, even probable that our host stands to gain from this event. If they do, MORE power to them, and I'll be back next year too. So if they want to limit what goes on under their roof, fine by me. The door on the front of their fine establishment swings both ways. When this event was just an idea being kicked around, it could have been held in someones garage. All we wanted was a place to gather and meet, regardless if there was any vendors etc. or not. The Custom Rod Builders Guild was very instrumental in getting the word out as well as offering up advice, suggestions and support. Did they confuse our intentions with trying to compete with one of their events? No, on the contrary, they saw it for what it was and supported it from the beginning and I thank them for it. In a few days I'll get the chance to thank them in person. These are only my views and opinions of which i'm entitled. I fell no need to lick anybodys boots and certainly won't be one of their sheep. Have a nice Easter 2coolers, ,,,,Jim


----------



## mlv (Oct 12, 2007)

pg542 said:


> Let's see,,,,,When this idea first came about, trying to "clone" anybodys show wasn't the intention. Yes, if my memory serves me correctly, and it does, the whole idea was a gathering of regional rodbuilders for an informal meet and greet to get to know one another, share ideas, techniques etc. with other members of this board as well as anyone else interested in the same. Mlv, Putter, Fishtoys as well as many, many others had a hand in getting this thing off the ground. I proposed this idea to our host and after a little "testing the waters" they agreed. Once the wheels were rolling, a 2cool member attempted to post an announcement on another board which was removed in what can only be described as a nanosecond. I, for one( and I doubt that I'm alone) am very grateful to the folks at FTU for hosting this event. I know it is no small undertaking to have an event like with no guarantee of return. No one is blind to the fact that it is possible, even probable that our host stands to gain from this event. If they do, MORE power to them, and I'll be back next year too. So if they want to limit what goes on under their roof, fine by me. The door on the front of their fine establishment swings both ways. When this event was just an idea being kicked around, it could have been held in someones garage. All we wanted was a place to gather and meet. The Custom Rod Builders Guild was very instrumental in getting the word out as well as offering up advice, suggestions and support. Did they confuse our intentions with trying to compete with one of their events? No, on the contrary, they saw it for what it was and supported it from the beginning and I thank them for it. In a few days I'll get the chance to thank them in person. These are only my views and opinions of which i'm entitled. I fell no need to lick anybodys boots and certainly won't be one of their sheep. Have a nice Easter 2coolers, ,,,,Jim[/QUOTE
> 
> *Very well said Jim.....I never knew politics played a role in rodbuilding....but..it seems it is alive and well...*
> *I plan to have a great time next week...learn new techniques and meet new builders.....but I thought that was goal of every gathering !!*
> ...


----------



## d4rdbuilder (Jan 19, 2007)

And... That's to all that had a part in this!


----------



## d4rdbuilder (Jan 19, 2007)

It's early... THANKS not That's!


----------



## patfatdaddy (May 29, 2004)

I had posted our gathering on rodbuilding.org and recieved an e-mail from Tom Kirkman saying that one of his sponsors complained. I don't blame Tom for pulling the post because he needs his sponsors. I did have a problem with the sponsor because it is a well known company that does a huge mail order business. If FTU made a couple of hundred dollars off the event I doubt it will put him out of business. I will not order from this company any more because it seems that he was trying to discourage the very people that keeps him in business.
I am looking forward to meeting all of you and seeing your work.
PFD


----------



## Fishtoys (Jul 4, 2007)

*Same here*

Same here PFD looking forward to meeting you also, as for what went on with the sponsor thing well it's all water under or over or where ever the darn water flow thru the bridge, the only thing were offering is a *BIG TEXAS WELCOME. *I sent TK an invite and still stands of today, I offer the same invite to the other fellow BS, there's no hills to climb here just a place where we uplift and share our knowledge with others, United rodbuilders on this board, at least in my eyes. Eddie


----------



## Putter Parpart (Feb 10, 2007)

*Posts Removed*

I see the posts have been removed today so the link above won't show anyone what was said concerning the upcoming 2Cool/FTU event. Sorry about that; should have just copied and pasted...


----------



## firephil (Jul 11, 2006)

It's gonna be fun. Iv'e got lots of questions and some money to get some answers.Trying to build a good saltwater rod on the other side of Texas isn't easy.


----------



## captneilf (Feb 29, 2008)

Hi gang,

Don't let anything get in the way of your great gathering!!! Have a blast!!!

Capt Neil


----------



## Bill Stevens (Mar 8, 2008)

I am hoping that some of the people posting on this thread had the opportunity to read EXACTLY what I posted on the Rodbuilding.org board before it was erased. The thread on .org contained no damaging statements that I saw aimed at the FTU Single Vendor event in Houston.

When I saw posts on this site referring to a Rodbuilders Day in Houston I had no idea what or who FTU happened to be.

The post I made on the .org board was very very clear that I requested booth space through the FTU web site and was "promptly and courteously denied". There were then and there are now no claims the FTU has done anything wrong pertaining to the their sales efforts.

Puter you can rest assured that I had absolutely no knowledge about this "show" and was originally looking for a business opportunity to exhibit a new line of blanks to custom builders.

Here is the actual email record of my dealings with FTU

Bill,

We appreciate your interest in our upcoming rod builder's day; however, this is our first event surrounding our rod component department. As we are a retailer, we are currently offer space for free to the manufacturer's we carry. We have some specialty rod builders coming to do seminars, but we are limiting the numbers for our first year to see what the response will be.
Thanks for your interest,

Camille Null

Fishing Tackle Unlimited

Original Message

From: Bill Stevens [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 12:38 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject:

I just noticed your announcement for a rodbuilding day and would like to inquire about costs for a booth. Swampland rods recently picked up an exclusive on the Castaway XP3 blanks and fully exposed seats. These products were extremely well received at the recent High Point Show.

If you would provide cost for a booth it would be greatly appreciated.

Bill Stevens
Swampland


----------



## d4rdbuilder (Jan 19, 2007)

Bill I read it before it was removed, and never thought our gathering here was under attack or was there any damaging statements made. 

The only thing that suprised me was Tom's statement the gathering had been mis-represented to him also?

At no time have I ever read a post or talked to anyone that thought this was going to be anything but a git-together of area rodbuilders.


----------



## Putter Parpart (Feb 10, 2007)

*Okey-dokey*

Sounds good then, Bill. I know that you had email communications from board members here before sending your inquiry to FTU. Those persons let you know that it was just a get-together at a retail store which was willing to host it. They also said for you to go ahead and ask them and see if they would possibly sell some kind of booth space to retailers.

I guess that I was just surprised that you even brought it up in that post. The context of this post from Mudhole was that of obvious anger after being excluded from a show. That's kinda what gave it the flavor more than anything. Taken out of the context in that post, it was pretty harmless as to FTU.


----------



## patfatdaddy (May 29, 2004)

We love FTU. They are wonderful people. 
Camille do you still want me to do a Hanging weight weave loom demo. I am sure most of the rodbuilders already know how it works but I will do a demo if you want me to. I was in your store the other day getting some supplies and reel parts but you were at the fishing show.
PFD


----------



## Terrynj (Jun 27, 2006)

PFD - I would like to see your demo as I haven't done any weaving yet.

I read all the threads except for the for the one PFD posted and Tom just removed. I guess I am confused why Mudhole would complain? FTU doesn't sell anything on the internet and is just holding a local meeting? And why would they make Tom remove it??
Is Mudhole saying we aren't allowed to have a gathering unless they are there??? Too much drama for me....

Bill, I read your post and had even talked to you in a PM about you coming here, but when they declined, you seemed to completely understand and had NO malice in your post on Toms site. you were just stating what the deal was...

Anyway...CANT WAIT!


----------



## Goags (May 28, 2004)

Actually, Terry, I think FTU does sell on the internet. http://www.fishingtackleunlimited.com/
Yep, too much drama for me, too. Jerry


----------



## Bill Stevens (Mar 8, 2008)

It is a shame that some people will allow confusion to exist in the area of rodbuilding when a simple answer would many times clear matters like this up.

Mudholes post on Rodbuilding.org has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the Houston FTU Event. 

I am requesting from now on that any Show, Gathering, Meeting, Symposium, Or whatever be clearly market up front as Open or Single Source to facilitate communication between interested parties.

I hope all of you enjoy your rodbuilding day in Houston!


----------



## Terrynj (Jun 27, 2006)

Goags said:


> Actually, Terry, I think FTU does sell on the internet. http://www.fishingtackleunlimited.com/
> Yep, too much drama for me, too. Jerry


Ooops...my bad...I haven't looked at their website in awhile and I didn't think they were as serious as MH. I could never find anything on FTU's so i quit going.

Bill, I am sorry if I mis-understood, I read the Mudhole post and that was something completely different...I was going by PFD's post that TK removed his FTU post per a sponser....

I am curious as to what time this thing starts next Saturday!


----------



## Putter Parpart (Feb 10, 2007)

Bill Stevens said: "It is a shame that some people will allow confusion to exist in the area of rodbuilding when a simple answer would many times clear matters like this up."

*What are you referring to now, Bill? I don't understand where this is pointing? If people read the posts on the FTU event, there should never have been any confusion of any kind about it at all in my opinion. It's always been 'marketed' as a rod builders get-together and nothing else. I don't believe there's ever been any confusion about this event; it's been well publicized here; all it takes is a little search and reading. *

"Mudholes post on Rodbuilding.org has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the Houston FTU Event."

*Exactly my earlier point; that's why I found it funny that you posted your exclusion as a dealer selling components from FTU's store at the rod builders' gathering on Mudhole's angrily-worded post on .org... It made it seem that you were equating the two exlusions, your's and Mudhole's. It made for an easy assumption by anyone reading it, but obviously was not your intention. But you have to see that it was easily done by anyone reading that post.*

"some people will allow confusion to exist in the area of rodbuilding"

*...and so I would say that you're as guilty of this as all of us are. We all need to be careful when, where, and what we say on these boards so as not to misconstrue what we actually mean.*


----------



## Putter Parpart (Feb 10, 2007)

*Here is Bill's original post for those who didn't get to read it. Taken away from the context of Mudhole's original post, it is pretty harmless as to FTU. *

*The statement about honesty from show promoters towards the end is the only point in here that I strongly disagree with about the FTU event. If any post on other boards said anything differently, it was the person making the post's mistake and not the get-together's promoter's. All of this surely was covered in any posts about the event held on this board as the planning and fruition of this event evolved.*

Posted by: *Bill Stevens* (---.br.br.cox.net)
Date: March 20, 2008 08:02PM

There are many functions for rodbuilders held all over the country most of which carry the term "Show" or something similar. Many of these functions are endorsed by organizations with the intent of increasing membership by attending rodbuilders rodbuilders. There is a function in Houston next week that initially posted dates and promotional material on this board. Swampland attempted to register and applied informally for a booth space. We were promptly and courteously told that it was a closed retail show to promote the business of one retailer. Manufacturers were invited to attend who sold products in the host store. A little honesty by "show" promoters would surely be appropriate in painting a clear picture for any "gathering" of rodbuilders to be held in the future. There is only one ICRBE and anyone attempting to organize a clone with any similarity to that event has a long uphill battle!


----------



## patfatdaddy (May 29, 2004)

The complaining party was not Mudhole (at least that is not the party that called me). There may have been several that complained for all I know. Please don't boycott anyone on my account. They are business people and need all the customers they can get. I don't expect FTU to post record profits from what we will spend there next Saturday but I sure hope they make enough to show we appreciate what they are doing for us. I am very excited about the show. I even sent my logo shirt to get it starched.

PFD


----------



## Tom Kirkman (Mar 22, 2008)

*Clarification*

The post made about this event on my forum was not removed in a "nano-second." I left it up for a full 48 hours so that all could see it. It received over 300 views during that time.

Sponsors cannot force me to do anything - I do not bend to economic pressure and several have found that out the hard way. I cannot be bought for any price. Try me.

I allowed the post for the good of the Texas rod builders. It was removed after it went 3 pages deep. It was against our written rules and thus was removed for that reason, 48 hours later, and not because any sponsor made me do it. Yes, a couple did complain and they were certainly in their right to do so, but it was removed only because it was in violation of our written rules pertaining to events and such postings.I had been informed that the event was not in any way associated with any rod building supply dealer at the time of the initial post. I found out differently and after that time it was removed.

Tom Kirkman

................


----------



## Tom Kirkman (Mar 22, 2008)

I should clarify that Pat was not the one who mislead me. It was someone associated with the event.

I'll also mention that I did not receive one single "thank you" for allowing the word about this event to get out on the 'net's most heavily used rod building board, although I did receive a fair share of grief because I took the post down after 2 days. I've gotten a half dozen emails this morning, half with similar grief because of the post above.

I apologize if my comments sound terse or it appears that I do not wish everyone at this event to have a good time - that isn't the case. It just gets somewhat tiring always being labeled a "bad guy" simply because I won't pick up the advertising costs for others. Nobody gives me a free ride - not even close. I'm not subsidized by industry donations the way some others are - I pay for every nut and bolt and I pay heavily. And yet I'm very often expected to provide a free ride for everybody else. 

For what it's worth - A few years back there was an event taking place up in the Pacific Northwest hosted by a company that was not a sponsor of mine. One builder greatly chided me for not allowing that event to be publicized on my forum even though the host had never been willing to chip in for the cost of running my site. He said that I should do it on my dime because “It was good for custom rod building!”

My response was that I did not feel that I should be the one that always had to pick up the tab for everything that everybody said was “good for custom rod buildng.” I told him that if he truly believed in his statement, he should put his own money where his mouth was and pick up the tab to advertise that event himself. After all, doing so would be “Good for custom rod building.”

A day later, he contacted me and said he’d thought about it and he felt I was right - that it was time for all the folks who continually expected me to pick up every tab to start picking up their own tab. And... he actually sent me a check to pay for the event host’s sponsorship of the site. 

I gained a lot of respect for that fellow - he did the right thing and backed up his statement about what is “good for custom rod building” by reaching into his own pocket and proving that he really believed what he was saying. Everybody likes to complain about what somebody else won't do, but few are willing to reach into their own pocket and absorb some of the cost of what they want done. 

.....


----------



## Scott Kleppe (Apr 30, 2007)

Tom, one reason I frequent this site along with others is so I dont have to read all the "Poor Tom" posts.


----------



## dc1502 (May 25, 2006)

I'll say that as a rod builder the opportunities to gather with other builders is truly an advantage for each of us . There is not one builder on this site that is not willing to share his or her skill with others. That being said , I would like to thank FTU for allowing us the chance to gather at their buisness I'm sure each of the builders that attend this function will leave with some new information and possibly be able to expand their abilities . As for the politics or should i say economics involved it is very simple , no one wants to foot the bill for the next guy , but with advertising sometimes eating a little goes a long way .Since the first talk of this event hit the 2cool board i have seen the posting and the traffic on the rod building forum grow, there has been new post daily and several new builders getting started . I am not saying that this event is soley responsible for this I'm only saying that to take that which is to your advantage and throw it aside only hurts those who can gain from it . Above that , less moaning and more rod building!!!!.........Dave


----------



## Profish00 (May 21, 2004)

This is the first drama event in the rodbuilding forum, as the blonde would say "we made it"


----------



## Rink Rat (Mar 26, 2008)

Oh have I waited for this day.

Tom you have stepped into some place that I think is a good place. I am tired of your half truths, emails, and trashing of other sites. You should go back to "your" board and run it how you see fit. The people here exchange ideas and help one another and work together. They do not tear each other apart, remove posts that might hurt an over priced vender, or sponsor. They also allow for teaching not preaching the recycled ideas that are not yours.

As for the sponsors you hold so dear, there is this thing call competition and if their prices are to high and do crappie business and use others pictures to describe the same items (that were used without permission) then we should not only here about it, but they should apologize for there actions!

As for being dubbed teh "bad guy" you sir have brought that on yourself. You have talked behind many peoples backs, made PERSONAL attacks on many of my friends and aired there dirty laundry out in the open where it does not belong. If you have a problem with that then here I am.

"Good for custom rod building" is something that you like to tout around time and time again. Good for custom rod building to me means working with others, not just preaching to them. 

Lastly but not leastly if you are having money problems and have to shut your coveted board down, then do it and quite whining about how broke you are. Maybe if you did not pay certain people to travel to your show and not others, then you would have money to cover the cost of your board.

PS RESPECT is something that is earned, not given blindly. So maybe you should think about all of those you have cheated and lied to over the years and make amends for your actions then. You might have some of My respect then.


----------



## 123456 (Apr 6, 2005)

Great post Rink!!! Sing, boy, sing!!!
Awesome!!


----------



## Rink Rat (Mar 26, 2008)

Boy for someone that likes to delete posts, edit them, and chastise people both publicly and privately you sure are awfully quite Tom.

I would like to attend your show next year could you send the dates or maybe post them? Maybe we could sit down and have this out. Makes no difference to me.

For the rest of you here I would like to Apologize for this post, but the man hides behind his sponcers, venders and has others do his dirty work. He would not return my emails and has tried to degrade me in many ways as well as my friends and other that I look up to.

If I have offended anyone here at this fine board I would like to take this moment to apologize for this and the other post. For you Tom I think you know where I stand!!

Have a fine day Tom.


----------



## Scott Kleppe (Apr 30, 2007)

Nice Rink Rat. Your a Micky Mouse.


----------



## Rink Rat (Mar 26, 2008)

NP sir


----------



## pg542 (Oct 9, 2006)

C'mon guys. Everyone has said their piece. Let's move on. It would be a shame to see this forum turn into another hamper for dirty laundry. After all, we've got something we need to do tomorrow. See 'ya there.,,,,Jim


----------



## Scott Kleppe (Apr 30, 2007)

pg542 said:


> C'mon guys. Everyone has said their piece. Let's move on. It would be a shame to see this forum turn into another hamper for dirty laundry. After all, we've got something we need to do tomorrow. See 'ya there.,,,,Jim


I agree, I didn't want to blast the man, just didn't want this site to turn into one of his posts on his website, which I do frequent and I do subscribe to Rodmaker. There are equally good people on .org.

I wish all of you the best tomorrow, wish I could make it down.


----------



## Tom Kirkman (Mar 22, 2008)

Noel,

You and I both know what you tried to do on my site. It wasn’t fair and when I confronted you at least you were objective enough to admit the error and apologize. I still have the note of apology you sent me and respect you for it. 

.............

Scott,

You’re certainly entitled to your opinion. The vast majority of folks don’t share it, but that certainly doesn’t invalidate your opinion in the least. I have no quarrel with it.

..............

Chris (rink rat), 

Your propensity for “thriftiness” is well known by the dealers in this industry. You aren’t going to buy or attend anything that requires you to spend money. You have never been, are not now, nor will you ever be a customer of mine so I’m not concerned with your comments. I’m not aware of any contributions that you’ve made to the rod building craft in general so I put no stock in your tirade. If you’ve found a place here that offers you a platform for your many complaints, then I’d stick here and use it as often as possible.

...............


----------



## Scott Kleppe (Apr 30, 2007)

Why Tom, Why????????????????????????????????????????????????????????


----------



## Profish00 (May 21, 2004)

Yawn.............


----------



## Stan Grace (Dec 13, 2007)

Twas a pleasant day before politics arrived once again!


----------



## Putter Parpart (Feb 10, 2007)

*Agreed and if I could be the beginning of this post and the end, I'd be very happy. Let's put this thread to bed, please?*


----------



## Rink Rat (Mar 26, 2008)

Just stopped back to see if Tom would like to talk to me..........guess not. Oh well, To every one else thank you for allowing a diffeance of oppions to take place, we are all the best people around. So long for now.


----------

