# Its Official: I'm a victim



## Bucksnort (Jun 29, 2004)

Just got word today that our ranch I've been leasing the last five years has been sold. I gotta couple of weeks to get all my junk off...man I wish I woulda know this two weeks ago when I went out and put 500$ worth of protien out. It just chaps my rear. I'm so sick of getting burned on deer leases after I've dropped a ton of cash and managed the herd. I'm done, finished,,,,no more crappen on Bucksnort.....Unless somebody finds something I can't resist......:spineyes:


----------



## Big Mike PP2 (Jun 25, 2006)

Been there done that. I am so sick of it I am ready to unload all my hunting ****. Believe me, you are not alone on this deer lease issue. I have been fire mad for the last 3 months.


----------



## LIONESS-270 (May 19, 2005)

Major let down Snort...I know it don't mean much ...but Robs and I have been there in '2000...Same Deal..30 days...We poured sweat and treasure into it....for 4yrs.
Wishing you the best finding another one.


----------



## Bucksnort (Jun 29, 2004)

Its just getting old...and I'm tired of throwing my money away....right now I'm done...but I'm too chicken to commit to that statement...don't know what will happen when the weather gets cooler....but ugggg,,,,it's a tough one to swallow...I'm lucky I got a bud in Borderbandit. He is gonna help me get the stuff off and let me store it at his place in Uvalde for awhile...


----------



## crowmagnum (Feb 4, 2006)

Bucksnort said:


> Just got word today that our ranch I've been leasing the last five years has been sold. I gotta couple of weeks to get all my junk off...man I wish I woulda know this two weeks ago when I went out and put 500$ worth of protien out. It just chaps my rear. I'm so sick of getting burned on deer leases after I've dropped a ton of cash and managed the herd. I'm done, finished,,,,no more crappen on Bucksnort.....Unless somebody finds something I can't resist......:spineyes:


Thats why I am looking in Oklahoma and Kansas.The ranchers here are spoiled w/ plenty of hunters to choose from.Also alot of the leases NW of DFW are taking too many guns per acre.For instance,just 2 hrs ago a buddy called said he was getting on a lease near Brownwood. (I have been on a job there all summer.)He knew I was down there and wanted me to go view the place.He said it was 375 acres and there would be 5 guns.He is a newbie to leasing and stated "it was a 5 deer county".I told him that I wouldn't waste my time and save his $1300 (thats $17.00 per acre,(SHEEEEEUTT).Let's see 5 hunters x 5 deer on 375 acres=shot out ranch the first season.The ranch prolly is alredy shot out if the landowner will take 5 guns.Sorry for your troubles Bucksnort.Pm coming your way.


----------



## asolde (May 22, 2004)

*Buy property*

I think the only way to cure that is to buy your own property. Theres plenty of land for sale. Just need to run the numbers and if the price is right buy. For as much money as I put into hunting on leased land or an outfitter I could make payments on property. I think I will put $_______ into hunting this year and for that kind of money I could buy some acreage. In fact I am looking for some land maybe 75 - 100 acres. Might be a good tax write off to. How can you go wrong owning a piece of land.


----------



## Reality Czech (Jul 17, 2004)

"How can you go wrong owning a piece of land."

Property taxes.


----------



## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

Sorry to hear of your predicament. I guess we are really lucky because we have been on the same ranch for 23 years. Good luck with finding a new place.


----------



## Swampus (Sep 1, 2005)

Sorry 2 hear that Bucksnort--That is another reason I like to run Hunts for folks! You don't have to put in the work/expence of the lease --altho That is what I/We look forward to in the hunt for our Game! And 1/2 the fun.

I am trying to get as many weekends open for that same thing--to at least go on some hunts and enjoy the sport and get out at least for the weekend and see some good animals--hopefully taking a trophy.

Please don't give up!


----------



## wellconnected (May 30, 2005)

One major word is becoming more and more important with leases...CONTRACT. If the land owner will not follow it SUE his ***. If the land owner refuses to do the contract, he is more than likely going to SCREW you. I have been dealing with this for 15 years and every year it is getting worse. 5 years or so ago I got screwed before I even started hunting. The owner got more money after I had already paid him. He thought he was getting away scott free. Little did he know that my girlfriend at the time was a lawyer. We sued him and won. We won the lease back but did not take it of course. He was stuck with about 20K worth of legal debt. I think to this day his head is spinning. There are enough people on this board that there has to be a few lawyers. We need to start standing up for our rights!!! Just a quick RANT....Continue with the thread...


----------



## rio frio (Jan 12, 2005)

i've been saying it all along ...to hell with them ranchers............


----------



## activescrape (Jan 8, 2006)

Dang Bucksnort, I REALLY hurt for you. I know you passed up lots of deer on that place, doing what was right. And now to get dismissed like this, that bites the big one. You are a good guy, too bad this happened to you and your son. Not fair,Scrape


----------



## Charles Helm (Oct 22, 2004)

I'm real sorry to hear that.


----------



## Bucksnort (Jun 29, 2004)

Thanks for the kind words guys. The rancher is supposed to give us our money back and I think he will....I guess there is nothing you can do since they sold the place....If something good comes up I will look at it. I'll keep the old willy's in the garage just in case.


----------



## Blue.dog (May 8, 2005)

Bucksnort,

I have been on a ranch in Bandera for 33 years. I started planning ahead 3 years ago and bought 50 acres in Junction. Not a lot of land and I wish that it was more; however, it has produced several nice bucks.

My feed bill in bandera is approx. $200 per month. If you look at what you are spending on your feed, for some more, you can have your on place. The price of land is going up. It is hard to find land under $1,000 to $1,200 per acre.

Well, I gues that you still have to buy feed, so no trade off, but you will not be kicked off of your land.

Remember the old saying: The difference between men and boys is the price of their toys.

blue.dog


----------



## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

Where are you in Junction blue.dog? That is where we are.


----------



## kenforu (Mar 16, 2006)

well I am sorry for you buck I have three weeks to remove my stuff from a lease that I was on and we just put 4000lbs of protien out. I am giving up hunting this year and buying some land next year. I think we should all get together and have a weekend at a day hunt and tell stories about these as s h oles ranchers who only want the dollar. Good luck bro hope you find something or buy you a small track there are alot in good hunting areas that I have found.


----------



## kenforu (Mar 16, 2006)

are there any lawyers out there for this type of law siut?


----------



## El Cazador (Mar 4, 2005)

sorry to here that! good luck on an alternative. you can find an occasional good day lease. i'll keep my ears open.


----------



## activescrape (Jan 8, 2006)

Yeah, that's kind of what I did. My brother and I bought the family farm in the nick of time. It was about to be owned by 13 grandchildred and it is only 55 acres. We consoloidated it and now it is ours. It is near San Saba and every year for the last 20 it has produced deer for us. Also, turkey, ducks, bass, quail. I have a monthly payment and all but dang, property just keeps going up. Sorry to hijack because I feel bad for Snort, but this leasing thing is hard on people.


----------



## Txpintal (Sep 19, 2004)

Total BS there Bandit. I got off a Dang good place in Uvalde that i've hunted for years and got some great deer off of, so i could go and hunt with my Mom and Dad for 1 year and now i don't have a place to hunt. Have a offer to go back to working for the outfitter that i used to work for, but am having thoughts about that because i want my boys to have a opprtunity to harvest some deer pigs or whatever. It just ****...me of the state of hunting here in Texas. I think the 3 plus grand a year for hunting will be invested in more fishing tournaments from here on out. The way i look at it now thats 3 entry fees for the Redfish cup, or Alot of IFA redfish or couple Troutmasters... I could rant more but just will get me worked up again.Anyway Good Luck.


----------



## steverino (Mar 8, 2006)

*lease vs. buy*

I'm with Asolde and Blue.dog, just try to find a good piece of land to buy. It's also a good investment and no one can put you off of it (if you pay your taxes!). I've never had a lease but have hunted on corporate leases for years. I guess it's like renting a house versus buying one. I could never afford the large acreage of some of the leases that I've hunted on but it does feel good to know that when you make improvements that they are an investment that won't be lost. My small piece of the western hill country has more turkey and hogs than you can shake a stick at and the deer are coming back! With an ag exemption the taxes are also very reasonable. Just pick the right piece of property in the right location. Hopefully you will also have good neighbors. Land is going up so don't wait too long! Good luck!


----------



## Bucksnort (Jun 29, 2004)

Ya know, I've been searching around for awhile, because in all honesty I knew this would happen...it will catch up to everyone of us that lease. What I've noticed is I can go on a dang good package hunt at a what I consider a reasonable price as long as I'm not going for whitetail. I will hunt something somewhere this year...just don't know what it is going to be yet. and honestly, sure I'd like to kill a 150+ whitetail but the older I get the lower it gets on my priority list.


----------



## garrettryan (Oct 11, 2004)

Snort..

Stinks to hear. I will miss the stories. Do not give up, not all of them are bad. Have you tried to contact purchaser? Maybe he would let you stay on until the end of this season.

Sorry guys, been away.. Hope all has been well, in fact heading to NYC tomorrow, maybe I can get a pidgeon hunt in.


----------



## Bucksnort (Jun 29, 2004)

garrettryan said:


> Snort..
> 
> Stinks to hear. I will miss the stories. Do not give up, not all of them are bad. Have you tried to contact purchaser? Maybe he would let you stay on until the end of this season.
> 
> Sorry guys, been away.. Hope all has been well, in fact heading to NYC tomorrow, maybe I can get a pidgeon hunt in.


We are waiting on the phone call back,,,it doesn't sound too promising.


----------



## copperhead (Mar 15, 2005)

My Dad lost his lease this year for the same reason. With him being retired and on a fixed income he's pretty much screwed now. I hunted with him on the lease but I only killed one deer in the last 10 years, I went hunting mostly to be with him as I normally hunt out of state unless I get drawn to hunt public land. It was only 12 miles from his house but we would build a fire after the morning hunt and just visit until time to back out. Now he's talking about selling his guns and giving up on hunting altogether. I'm hoping to find a place that I can take him so he can kill a couple of does or a spike. He does enjoy his venison. I seriously doubt my son will get to hunt with him like I did with my granddad and that saddens me, as alot of family traditions are dying out. I do hope you can another place to hunt.


----------



## surfspeck (Jun 7, 2006)

I am working with a landowner here in Kerr County as we speak to get a 7 year deal on my 1000 acre deer lease. We have poured alot of work into this place over the last 2 years and are starting to get control of the deer herd on the place after spanking the sika population. I have made it very clear to our landowner that we are willing to sink some more money into feeding the whitetail if we can get a long term deal on the place and he has verbally told me that he would do it. Im just waiting for the changes he wants on the agreement and then we will get down to business and everyone will sign the agreement once we have struck a deal. I would never sink a bunch of money into a lease without some form of long term agreement.


----------



## KSims1868 (Jul 19, 2006)

Yep - same thing happened to a group of us on a lease up on Hondo, TX just this month.

Ranch owner sold all 1200+ acres to a new land-owner, and this new owner is sub-dividing and selling it off in 2-5 acre tracts or something like that. 

Had 30 days to clear our ***** out. For me...it really wasn't a big deal, but my friend and his family (Dad, Uncles, etc...) have been on this lease for almost 15 years. They've literally developed it from NOTHING to what it is today. Last year we spent thousands on new deer blinds, feeders, etc...etc... and countless hours cutting new shooting lanes, etc...

Now...all for nothing. We can get some of the blinds out, but many we built as 2-3 man blinds so we could bring our families hunting with us, and they are just too large to remove without dis-assembling them, and that would take too much time. 

We've decided to take a year off from hunting and focus on fishing...that's why I joined this forum actually.


----------



## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

Nothing but a bunch of scumbag sorry arse money grubbing no respect freeloading selfish anti-hunter yankee loser landowners here in Texas. Can't believe anyone would sell their property or try to make as much money as they can off their own property. That is just downright sorry for them. You would think they would follow suit of all the other 49 states landowners and be kind to hunters and give up some economical incentives for it. Man I am chapped.


On a side note, sorry for your loss Bucksnort.. happened to me 3 years ago on a place I hunted for over 20 years. We all knew the land was for sale and knew that when it did sale we would be gone. Landowner was Dads best friend and we were not angry with him. Understood life. Just remember, when one door closes another one will open. You'll have some fun this year afterall.... J


----------



## Redfishr (Jul 26, 2004)

InfamousJ said:


> Nothing but a bunch of scumbag sorry arse money grubbing no respect freeloading selfish anti-hunter yankee loser landowners here in Texas. Can't believe anyone would sell their property or try to make as much money as they can off their own property. That is just downright sorry for them. You would think they would follow suit of all the other 49 states landowners and be kind to hunters and give up some economical incentives for it. Man I am chapped.
> 
> On a side note, sorry for your loss Bucksnort.. happened to me 3 years ago on a place I hunted for over 20 years. We all knew the land was for sale and knew that when it did sale we would be gone. Landowner was Dads best friend and we were not angry with him. Understood life. Just remember, when one door closes another one will open. You'll have some fun this year afterall.... J


I knew that was comi"n


----------



## TXPalerider (May 21, 2004)

InfamousJ said:


> Nothing but a bunch of scumbag sorry arse money grubbing no respect freeloading selfish anti-hunter yankee loser landowners here in Texas. Can't believe anyone would sell their property or try to make as much money as they can off their own property. That is just downright sorry for them. You would think they would follow suit of all the other 49 states landowners and be kind to hunters and give up some economical incentives for it. Man I am chapped.
> 
> On a side note, sorry for your loss Bucksnort.. happened to me 3 years ago on a place I hunted for over 20 years. We all knew the land was for sale and knew that when it did sale we would be gone. Landowner was Dads best friend and we were not angry with him. Understood life. Just remember, when one door closes another one will open. You'll have some fun this year afterall.... J


Your exactly right J. You can't blame that landowner for selling his land and trying to make as much money as he can for his family. However, this landowner knows he had an agreement with these hunters and is well aware of the effort/money they have put into improving the ranch. I think it would be a little more palatable if he had said he would refund their money and take a bit of the proceeds from the sale and compensated them, say an additional $500/each. Not that it would have even covered their protien bill this year. But, it would have been a nice good faith gesture.

Sorry to hear it BuckSnort. At least you were a victim of normal business practices. We got screwed by a "friend."

Poor be the birds this year!!!


----------



## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

How can you say it was all for nothing when ya'll were able to enjoy it for 15 years? It is what it is guys, the land either belongs to you or it doesn't.

The thing to remember about a lease is just that...it's a lease and someone else owns it...you're just using it. It's their property to sell or to lease to someone else.

That's why a written contract (if you can get one from a land owner) is so important. The day of a handshake and a smile is gone when someone offers an owner a good price for their property and they're wanting to sell it.

Buy land if you can and be your own boss.

TH



KSims1868 said:


> Yep - same thing happened to a group of us on a lease up on Hondo, TX just this month.
> 
> Ranch owner sold all 1200+ acres to a new land-owner, and this new owner is sub-dividing and selling it off in 2-5 acre tracts or something like that.
> 
> ...


----------



## elkarcher (Jun 5, 2006)

I'm sorry to hear about you losing your lease Bucksnort. I've said here before that the landowners and guides are going to price the average man out of hunting. Where hunting used to be for putting food on the table and then an outing with family and friends it has turned into a big $ business with nothing more than the almighty dollar seeming important. They have done more for the anti-hunter ranks than PETA.After reading some of these threads it sure seems like now would be a good time to open a baitcamp/tackle shop. It's much cheaper for me to go on a self guided archery elk hunt in Montana than even a small lease here.


----------



## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

You're right Oh Pale One, it would be a nice gesture to do that for your hunters. But if I were selling land that was leased by hunters, I'd make sure that the buyer conveyed the money to the hunters. 

Good idea.

TH


----------



## TXPalerider (May 21, 2004)

Trouthunter said:


> You're right Oh Pale One, it would be a nice gesture to do that for your hunters. But if I were selling land that was leased by hunters, I'd make sure that the buyer conveyed the money to the hunters.
> 
> Good idea.
> 
> TH


Either way. I just felt like the landowner was the one that had the agreement with them and he was the one receiving the proceeds from the sale. And I'm sure $2500 out of the sale price for 1000+ acres would be to painful. Regardless, it was gonna be frustrating for this group of guys.

On another note, guys, lets don't turn this into another landowner bashing thread. The landowner didn't screw them intentionally. He didn't lease it out from under them to the highest bidder with no notice. The guy simply sold his ranch. That's business.


----------



## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

I was pointing my post directly at Bucksnort... it was more aimed at those that consistently get on this site and complain about landowners. Go buy your own land if you want to complain about them all the time.


----------



## Bucksnort (Jun 29, 2004)

InfamousJ said:


> I was pointing my post directly at Bucksnort... it was more aimed at those that consistently get on this site and complain about landowners. Go buy your own land if you want to complain about them all the time.


J, don't point at me. I'm not complaining about the landowner selling the land. I understand the circumstances behind the sell. It has been explained to me. But we did rebuild the cabin and have been managing the place, have dropped alot of cash and time...becuase the Landowner assurred us that the land would NEVER be sold...but there are extinuating circumanstances here that I fully understand....it's just getting old. In fact we got a call from the rancher and he is trying to find us a new place because he genuinally feels bad for us. I don't fault people for investing and selling land. But it happens so often I don't know if leasing is worth the effort anymore. And yes the new owner is one of them there Yankees buying up Texas land.


----------



## copperhead (Mar 15, 2005)

A good friend of mine had a lease in South Texas, around 10,000 acres, Cotulla to be exact. He started leasing it in the early 80's and at the time it was ****. He established a deer management program and in about 6 to 7 years he started seeing a real turnaround. He and his party sunk a lot of money into the land, some brush clearing, plots, a nice camping area, stands among other things, not to mention the free work he did with the owners foreman like helping with the cattle and fence mending. After having it leased for 15 years, my friend recieved a call from the owner who informed him at the end of his contract he was raising his price and wondered if he would counter-offer. My friend couldn't match what he was asking so he had to let it go but he could finish out the rest of the year. He then found out why he lost it, some doctors out of Houston and Dallas had offered the owner more money and he took it. So, when he found that out, most of the improvements he had made he took down as he wanted to leave it like he found it. After the season, he plowed under the plots, chipped out the concrete pad at the campground as well as disassembled the rock smoker and scattered the rocks to approx where he gathered them from, and took down his "permanant" stands. An atty told him that he was within his rights as the contract did not say anything about leaving any improvements they had done over the years they had been there. It's just a sorry state when your word and a handshake doesn't count for much anymore and that you have to have it written down.


----------



## KSims1868 (Jul 19, 2006)

The reason I felt like it was a waste is because I only got to hunt on it for 2 years with the expectations of hunting there for the rest of my life.

My friend's family had been on the land SO long that I felt a slight sense of security investing my time and money into the property.

I was just mistaken...lesson learned though.


----------



## Bucksnort (Jun 29, 2004)

Another 2 cents. We have a couple of money guys on our place with some pretty deep pockets. They told the landowner that if they ever decided to sell the place they would like first dibs...our group was told that we would get first shot at buying the place because our blood and sweat was already in the soil ...guess what.....yep, that promise fell through too. I guess what it boils down to is a man's word in TEXAS ain't what it used to be....the sad part is alot of people are okay with that.


----------



## warcat (May 22, 2004)

copperhead said:


> So, when he found that out, most of the improvements he had made he took down as he wanted to leave it like he found it. After the season, he plowed under the plots, chipped out the concrete pad at the campground as well as disassembled the rock smoker and scattered the rocks to approx where he gathered them from, and took down his "permanant" stands. An atty told him that he was within his rights as the contract did not say anything about leaving any improvements they had done over the years they had been there.


Now that's just sorry.


----------



## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

Bucksnort said:


> Another 2 cents. We have a couple of money guys on our place with some pretty deep pockets. They told the landowner that if they ever decided to sell the place they would like first dibs...our group was told that we would get first shot at buying the place because our blood and sweat was already in the soil ...guess what.....yep, that promise fell through too. I guess what it boils down to is a man's word in TEXAS ain't what it used to be....the sad part is alot of people are okay with that.


Did he not put his land up for sale at all, brokers/agents/etc.? He just sold it all of a sudden out of the blue? Weird.


----------



## Bucksnort (Jun 29, 2004)

InfamousJ said:


> Did he not put his land up for sale at all, brokers/agents/etc.? He just sold it all of a sudden out of the blue? Weird.


J, that is exactly what happened.


----------



## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

copperhead said:


> So, when he found that out, most of the improvements he had made he took down as he wanted to leave it like he found it.......chipped out the concrete pad at the campground..........


I was under the impression anything tied to the ground now becomes the landowners... like building a house on the property (camp) stays even if you have to leave as an ex-leaser.

If I ever own a place and ever decided to lease something.. I'm going to be asking for references and bground checks knowing your buddy is out there possibly. LOL


----------



## Lagunabob (May 19, 2005)

InfamousJ said:


> Did he not put his land up for sale at all, brokers/agents/etc.? He just sold it all of a sudden out of the blue? Weird.


Happens all the time. I'm a commercial developer and that's how I find the majority of our sites. I go direct to the owner and present an offer.


----------



## asolde (May 22, 2004)

*Commercial Developer*



troutphishin said:


> Happens all the time. I'm a commercial developer and that's how I find the majority of our sites. I go direct to the owner and present an offer.


 I plan on buying some land just for recreation ( hunting and camping ) I will research high and low to insure that there will be no chance of a developer coming in and buying out. I will make sure of no high fence so the animals are free ranging. I just want to enjoy nature at it's best. Don't want to offend anyone but I am going to have set standards when I buy property.I just need to learn alot more about it, I need a camp house, a well with a trough, and 20-100 acres with free ranging land all the way around. I am really thinking of this is there anyone else thinking of buying land?


----------



## SEtxDUkiller (Feb 1, 2006)

Dont buy land that has potential to be developed. If farming/ranching is the highest and best use for the land then you won't have anything to worry about. Make sure the surrounding land is the same. Just dont buy land near a growing city. lol


----------



## kweber (Sep 20, 2005)

problem is; everyone wants lease/land with-in 1-1 1/2 hrs from some city. thats where alot of commuters also look to buy/build away from inner-city problems. said it before, will say it again. trophy hunting and B&C have made deer hunting what it is today in Tx.


----------



## TxDuSlayer (Jun 24, 2006)

Bucksnort the samething has happened to me but you just have change the game a little. For what I was paying for a deer lease in Texas so far I went to Saskatcewan Canada to the fly in camps hunted bear, went to wyoming on a combo mulie/pronghorn hunt, and this season going to kansasa for 1 week during rut. Texas is the only state that has this high dollar ****! Check in to going on out of state hunts.


----------



## rio frio (Jan 12, 2005)

**** sodbusters......DAN HATES SODBUSTERS!!!!!!!!! (Lonesome dove)


----------



## kenforu (Mar 16, 2006)

There is alot of land listed on landsoftexas.com I have been looking since I took the screw this year and I have a contract that runs through september but I have been told to remove my belonings because they want to sign a new contract with a group that I kicked off because of poor hunting ethics. They just had deeper pockets. Check out this site for property there is some good deals.


----------



## MaiChip (Jul 5, 2006)

*Land...Land*

I was on a lease for almost 15 years north of Fredricksburg. I've seen the Dot. Com'rs buy up land they didn't know what to do with. Seen the deer population decline there as well. Still many good deer out there but... I got off of the lease this past year for two reasons. I bought 125 acres in east TX and more importantly, I couldn't stand the landowners ****. That place had more problems that a soap opera. Every year it was something different. I put a bunch of money and sweat in that place but just couldn't stand the landowners anymore. Every year I would ask myself why in the world I was paying for this )(%$!!! If you put a stand or feeder on leased property you still own it. If you build something on that land you need to have an agreement as to ownership. In real estate, posession is 9/10th of the law.

I will say that I would rather hunt Blanco county than Cherokee county any day of the week but I can now hunt whenever I want and don't have to pay good money to hear someone give me a rash of ****.

If you are seriously looking into buying land you must consider that the land needs to produce some kind of income in order to be cost effective. Either hunting lease, cattle, trees, farming or whatever. You need your agriculture exemption to keep your taxes down. You better get to finding something soon cuz they ain't making anymore land and the price is going up fast for whats available.

Hunting in Texas is fast becoming a rich mans sport. That sucks but that is the reality. What chaps my arse is hearing someone bragging about taking a nice buck off of some high dollar ranch and they were either an invited guest or their high dollar corporation paid for it. Good for them but I'm a working man and have to pay for what I have in this world.


----------



## Bucksnort (Jun 29, 2004)

TxDuSlayer said:


> Bucksnort the samething has happened to me but you just have change the game a little. For what I was paying for a deer lease in Texas so far I went to Saskatcewan Canada to the fly in camps hunted bear, went to wyoming on a combo mulie/pronghorn hunt, and this season going to kansasa for 1 week during rut. Texas is the only state that has this high dollar ****! Check in to going on out of state hunts.


Your talking my language now. I really don't want land. I don't want to take care of it nor do I have the time to devote to it. I'm not knocking anyone for purchasing their own little piece of heavan...its just not for me. I would rather pay for a hunt or another lease. But the lease thing is gonna have to be a good deal for me...I'm not going to go crazy trying to find a new one. The idea of a out of state package hunt is very appealling. I've always wanted to go on a black bear hunt and just googling I found a 1 week hunt in Canada for 900.00...heck I spend that in gas, feed and a weekend out of town in Texas(well half that anyway). I had a friend email me lease info near Fredricksburg earlier today. It was a buddy of his place....3 hours later it was already filled...as long as the demand is there I'm afraid getting a lease and keeping it is always going to be a challange. The key I would assume is to stay as mobile as you can.


----------



## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

They run some kick ***** mountain lion hunts in West Texas also... I have been dieing to do that. The ones I checked in to were all under $1500 and guaranteed thru fair chase, horses for you and dogs to tree the cats. If we have an opening next year, you are welcomed to apply... we have 1500 acres in Junction.


----------



## WAHOO-YAHOO (Apr 6, 2006)

You know guys, if we 2coolers put up 10 spots for sale, formed an LLC with likeminded hunting/conservation efforts, for a very affordable sum, could put together an awesome "lease" with each having ownership rights and a vote and wouldn't have to go through this junk.
When someone else has the ownership of the land you are dumping money into, you are giving your money and equity away. You are also risking your hunting season. I spend mine with and for my boys. It gets personal...


----------



## TxDuSlayer (Jun 24, 2006)

The only problem with buying land is you never know when your neighbor decide's to throw up a high fence and cut 1/2 your property off. I know people who have bought small tracts of land in the hill country and in a few years been surounded by high fence!!! Then it is hard to sell the property.


----------



## Bucksnort (Jun 29, 2004)

TxDuSlayer said:


> The only problem with buying land is you never know when your neighbor decide's to throw up a high fence and cut 1/2 your property off. I know people who have bought small tracts of land in the hill country and in a few years been surounded by high fence!!! Then it is hard to sell the property.


Yep, I have a friend that bought 50 acres near San Antonio,,the only reason he bought it was investment purposes...never ever intended to hunt it..never did any improvements...just had it...within a year his neighbors completely high fenced him....he doesn't even care about that..its just funny they thought he was going to kill all the deer...and this guy doesn't even hunt. Never really even went out there except for the purchase. The only thing I would think that with the high fence around him now his property has gone down in value. That doesn't bother him at this point. He is just keeping it till the right time to sell. Might be 3 generations down the line though.


----------



## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

*Dang, he's lucky...*



Bucksnort said:


> Yep, I have a friend that bought 50 acres near San Antonio,,the only reason he bought it was investment purposes...never ever intended to hunt it..never did any improvements...just had it...within a year his neighbors completely high fenced him....he doesn't even care about that..its just funny they thought he was going to kill all the deer...and this guy doesn't even hunt. Never really even went out there except for the purchase. The only thing I would think that with the high fence around him now his property has gone down in value. That doesn't bother him at this point. He is just keeping it till the right time to sell. Might be 3 generations down the line though.


Now all he has to do is put up one piece of fence and a gate and he's got a 50 acre high fenced piece of property with his neighbors paying the lion's share.

TH


----------



## copperhead (Mar 15, 2005)

I thought it was pretty sorry too.


----------



## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

Trouthunter said:


> Now all he has to do is put up one piece of fence and a gate and he's got a 50 acre high fenced piece of property with his neighbors paying the lion's share.
> 
> TH


Not if they built it 3'+ off the line like they do when the neighbor does not pitch in... he will forever have a gap on the front of the place at each end of his fence... to tie into the neighboring owners they will charge half price of what it cost to build their fence down that line, if they allow him to even tie in.

Now if he is high fenced on all 4 sides, how the heck does he get to the property?


----------



## Hogpaw (Mar 26, 2006)

Happened to us after we managed for 10 years and hunted bow only. We had renewal rights but they sold it out from under us. We took nothing but culls for 2 years. I am through season leasing. I have only day leased for the past 5-6 years. I still have a bad taste in my mouth over that deal.


----------



## Bucksnort (Jun 29, 2004)

Hogpaw said:


> Happened to us after we managed for 10 years and hunted bow only. We had renewal rights but they sold it out from under us. We took nothing but culls for 2 years. I am through season leasing. I have only day leased for the past 5-6 years. I still have a bad taste in my mouth over that deal.


How is day leasing going for you? I'm sure leaning that direction.


----------



## HIJACK (Aug 10, 2005)

*Property*

I bought 124 ac. in Dryden Texas for $295.00 a ac. long drive but I had my lease sold out from underneath me 2 years in a row.

NEVER AGAIN,
Hijack


----------



## warcat (May 22, 2004)

So, the guy with 50 ac surrounded by high fencing is set!! Now, he can have some deer delivered to his place and manage as he sees fit. I think I'd be happy.


----------



## Bucksnort (Jun 29, 2004)

warcat said:


> So, the guy with 50 ac surrounded by high fencing is set!! Now, he can have some deer delivered to his place and manage as he sees fit. I think I'd be happy.


He's not a hunter,,doesn't even care about hunting.....


----------



## wet dreams (May 21, 2004)

BS I know it chaps your _ss. When I was in the Taxidermist n Processing buss this was something I heard yearly from several people. IMO most of it stems from hunters talking too much about what they do, see and what they do take. The same goes for here in E Tex but it not near as bad as you guys have it out west. I know of some serious hunters that have finally got accepted on some prime timber co., property only to be kicked off for taking the best deer in their first yr. 90% of the land in E Tex is owned by large timber co and some have their land graded and priced accordinly all are sub-leased. The absolute best here is owning a small pc of property bordered by National Forrest with the second being property owned by a timber co bordered by National Forrest. You mite check into some of this type land and would only have to buy a acre or so, just enough to give you acess to the NF. There are deer there that die of old age and a deer @ 3-41/2 is so much harder to take than a older deer out west or south >> thats a fact.<< Look in Colorado the best land to acuire is the land bordered by BLM. Just a thought for you. WW


----------



## bullred123 (Apr 16, 2005)

Man i know the feeling that's why we redfishr and i are hunting in kentucky this year


----------



## TOP FLIGHT (Jun 10, 2005)

Bucksnort said:


> Its just getting old...and I'm tired of throwing my money away....right now I'm done...but I'm too chicken to commit to that statement...don't know what will happen when the weather gets cooler....but ugggg,,,,it's a tough one to swallow...I'm lucky I got a bud in Borderbandit. He is gonna help me get the stuff off and let me store it at his place in Uvalde for awhile...


Bucksnort, Where was your lease? We may still have one opening in RockSprings. Myself, Kevin A, Outcast, and CCBluewater are on the same place. 5200 acres. Send me a PM if interested.

If not, I'd take a year or 2 off and do some guided hunts while the flights are cheap. I flew to New Mexico last year for $86 on Southwest Airlines. I did a Mule Deer hunt. Didn't see even one, but saw around 70 Elk... Go figure. Had a great time though. I had always wanted to hunt in the snow. It was 22F at the top of the mountain.

I'd like to hunt Pennsylvania or Kansas for Whitetail too.

I have a lease now, but when it is all said and done, this will be something I'll check out. With gas prices up, I would probably spend the same traveling. Good Luck.

John Macias


----------



## Bucksnort (Jun 29, 2004)

Thanks, went and moved everything off this weekend. You talk about a Pain in the A. BorderBandit let me store some of my stuff on his place which was very nice of him. Even took us out for some bass fishing and a fish fry down at his Tio's ranch. Gave us a nice break in the action.. I like the idea that bullred and redfishr are doing this year. I know they got the shaft last year in Uvalde...and I think they might be on the right track.


----------



## mrsh978 (Apr 24, 2006)

sorry to hear what i already know-been there so many times over the years-africa is such a cool place to spend time and money-its appreciated and you hunt-not guard a corn pile.


----------



## Bucksnort (Jun 29, 2004)

mrsh978 said:


> sorry to hear what i already know-been there so many times over the years-africa is such a cool place to spend time and money-its appreciated and you hunt-not guard a corn pile.


Yeah, there is alot of options out there...went to the hunting show Friday. Not that much out there far as real hunting...got alot of guaranteed stuff in a a pen....guy from canada guaranteed me a 200 b&C whitetail for 18k...i tried to explain to him that I was poor but he didn't beleive me...he showed me the sheds(impressive). I asked him how he could guarantee me I was going to shoot this particular deer....he said he was in a pen waiting for me....I just had to walk off.


----------



## jt2hunt (May 13, 2006)

i had this same experience happen to me. Only it wasn't they landowner, but the other hunters that I got on our lease two years earlier. Nice comrades, heh?
This is why i am going for the offshore fishing, which i have not done, yet. 

I sure miss driving the mule around the thousands of acres worrying about anything but work. it was great.


----------



## mrsh978 (Apr 24, 2006)

with al that has been mentioned-high fencing, pen raised, contracts, egos-i too have gone to fishing but africa is still more affordable and rewarding. what we pay for a lease, you can go to the black continent and have a unimagineable experience-it ruined me from the "lease syndrome" here in texas.


----------



## Surffishwant2B (May 22, 2004)

*Lease contracts*



wellconnected said:


> One major word is becoming more and more important with leases...CONTRACT. If the land owner will not follow it SUE his ***. If the land owner refuses to do the contract, he is more than likely going to SCREW you. I have been dealing with this for 15 years and every year it is getting worse. 5 years or so ago I got screwed before I even started hunting. The owner got more money after I had already paid him. He thought he was getting away scott free. Little did he know that my girlfriend at the time was a lawyer. We sued him and won. We won the lease back but did not take it of course. He was stuck with about 20K worth of legal debt. I think to this day his head is spinning. There are enough people on this board that there has to be a few lawyers. We need to start standing up for our rights!!! Just a quick RANT....Continue with the thread...


Thats great! I have always felt there should be a law that if a person or group 
leases a hunting lease that they could not let you go just before hunting season, and only after season ends. That is when the place is sold.


----------



## TXPalerider (May 21, 2004)

Lesson learned here is to make sure you have a written lease .......that should also describe terms by which you can be evicted.


----------



## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

Bucksnort said:


> guy from canada guaranteed me a 200 b&C whitetail for 18k...i tried to explain to him that I was poor but he didn't beleive me...he showed me the sheds(impressive). I asked him how he could guarantee me I was going to shoot this particular deer....he said he was in a pen waiting for me....I just had to walk off.


LOL.. even though we have never met.. .just seems I can picture you with a cold beer in your hand, and being really sarcastic with that dude from Canada...

"the pen is 20 acres? wow, I've never hunted in an area that big before"

"can I stalk that deer in your pen?"

"well for $18K, you think you can herd him over to me at the gate so I don't have to walk in to much and get all tired and *****?"

bwahahahaha :rotfl: :rotfl:


----------



## Bucksnort (Jun 29, 2004)

Ha Ha, no beer and actually I was trying to be nice but I'm sure the look on my face had to say it all....I think maybe if I spoke french I could have explained myself better.


----------



## kweber (Sep 20, 2005)

who owns the land and who pays the taxes on it? get a contract or quit crying! there's always someone with more money! TTH and B&C started all this! now we all gotta pay BIG to play!


----------



## TXPalerider (May 21, 2004)

kweber said:


> who owns the land and who pays the taxes on it? get a contract or quit crying! there's always someone with more money! TTH and B&C started all this! now we all gotta pay BIG to play!


Dude, who pizzed in your cheerios? Have you read the thread? The ranch was sold not leased behind their backs. I don't think he is crying about it, just frustrated.


----------



## kweber (Sep 20, 2005)

yeah, I've been following it. I've deleted several sentances. deer hunting is a major source of revenue for many counties outside of major metropolitian areas. we welcome our friends from out of town during the season. unfourtunatly, the whitetail is now a major source of income for many individuals. instead of a friendly atmosphere between ranchers and hunters, and a little extra income from a deer lease, we now have a competition for antler bragging rights. slob hunters and such have hurt the image of metropolitain hunters. we've had them on our place(a small ranch). I know that the majority of hunters are not like that, but..... also alot of land has changed hands from a place of several generations to someone who only sees it as a quick income generator(hunting). it's progress, but realtors and camo have ruined the area where I was raised. just 2 cents and a rant. a deer lease is just like a cow lease(only good untill the next offer).


----------



## kweber (Sep 20, 2005)

OK guys, did a reread, and it's MY fustratration over how SCORES have turned a grand Texas tradition into a business. wish it was like it was in the '60's. money has a way of bringing out the worst of us all. thanx for the reality check, Txpalerider.


----------



## Bucksnort (Jun 29, 2004)

TXPalerider said:


> Dude, who pizzed in your cheerios? Have you read the thread? The ranch was sold not leased behind their backs. I don't think he is crying about it, just frustrated.


Thas right just frustrated. I've never complained about the money. I 've always stayed with what I could afford. I just can't afford 18k for a whitetail deer. Thats gonna be old and dusty in a couple of years. I started leasing 12 years ago before that never deer hunted much just went with buds and a few family invites...I guess I got buck fever about then and when I look back on it thats really about when TTH started to get kicking which fueled my fire to kill a "trophy" deer. I need a break from all the lease and whitetail crazyness and thats what I'll do. You wouldn't beleive or some of you would, all the PM's I got from frustrated hunters. Many leaving out of state to hunt whitetail or going to the exotics or a differnent species altogether. I've been invited on some hunts and if the invite is still open during the season,,,,yeah,,,I ain't turning it down. Here is my last 12 years of lease hunting. I bet alot of you can relate...

1. 2 years - left lease(e.texas suks)
2. 1 year - ranch sold for pkg. hunting
3. 2 years - rancher dies. widow finds new boyfriend who wants our lease
4. 2 years - rancher says he wants us to leave. appriciates our efforts but wants only family to hunt ranch from now on
5. 4 months - sold had to get off in august...yeah, almost had a heat stroke.
6. 5 years - sold...........get your stuff off.....

Hey man, its hot out there....I'm 12 years older now and not getting any younger. Yeah, the owners control it all but, but, but...................................
can ya see where a feller is coming from????


----------



## StevePage (Aug 1, 2006)

InfamousJ said:


> *Just remember, when one door closes another one will open.*


I was always told that when one door opens, the guy opening its sole purpose is to kick you in the crotch!


----------



## kweber (Sep 20, 2005)

we went quail hunting in So. Tex in the '60's on friendly invites. most of those ranches have been sold off! can still hunt 'em, just need about a $1000 to drive in the front gate!


----------



## TXPalerider (May 21, 2004)

kweber said:


> .......... thanx for the reality check, Txpalerider.


Glad I could be of assistance.


----------



## abrcrmbekelc95 (Aug 10, 2006)

*awww... that sux like pooo 3 - - -! oh well at least its not ur car right?!*


----------



## iron shore (Jan 1, 2006)

*sold out*

Sold all my hunting stuff bought a kayak started fishing let see them sell the lake an rivers.


----------



## Bucksnort (Jun 29, 2004)

abrcrmbekelc95 said:


> *awww... that sux like pooo 3 - - -! oh well at least its not ur car right?!*


CAR???? My brotha,,,I drive a TRUCK!!!:rotfl:


----------

