# Man charged with killing deputy while serving no knock warrant has changes dropped...



## AggieCowboy98 (Feb 25, 2007)

I'm torn on this one. I think no knock entries are just asking for trouble. I have family in law enforcement so IF my home was entered and the officers identified themselves, I would likely stand down. However, how are you to be certain they are really law enforcement officers? We have all seen the reports of people being robbed, raped, etc by folks pulling them over dressed as a police officer...

I tend to think in this case it would have been better to wait the guy out. Detain him when he leaves the premises and then execute the warrant on the property.

http://www.kbtx.com/home/headlines/...ed-by-Grand-Jury-243993261.html?device=tablet

Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

I am sure that the swat tean along with the deceased deputy were wearing jackets that properly identified them. How the charges were dropped I have no clue.


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## SharkBait >*)\\\><( (May 16, 2012)

anyone can yell police, if my door gets broken down in the middle of the night im slinging lead.


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## mas360 (Nov 21, 2006)

CHARLIE said:


> I am sure that the swat tean along with the deceased deputy were wearing jackets that properly identified them. How the charges were dropped I have no clue.


Jackets with the letters "POLICE" on front and back can be easily obtained on commercial market.

It is rather strange that this guy lives in a mobile home but yet his legal counsel is Dick Deguerrin, a top dollar attorney in Houston. This is not a case against the city looking for big buck civil damage....and big name attorneys only work for money, period. Is this like BREAKING BAD remake ?


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## bill (May 21, 2004)

No knock warrants should only be used if someone's life is in immediate danger

It was the police taking advise from a criminal that ended up with the death of the Officer. It could have easily been others killed

No reason the police could not have waited to pick him up on the street, then go in and conduct the search.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

mas360

A dozen guys all dressed alike in SWAT uniforms and guys wearing raid jackets cannot be mistaken for imposters. One or two guys yes, but not that many.


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## bill (May 21, 2004)

CHARLIE said:


> mas360
> 
> A dozen guys all dressed alike in SWAT uniforms and guys wearing raid jackets cannot be mistaken for imposters. One or two guys yes, but not that many.


http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/mexican_cartels_and_fallout_phoenix

Late on the night of June 22, a residence in Phoenix was approached by a heavily armed tactical team preparing to serve a warrant. The members of the team were wearing the typical gear for members of their profession: black boots, black BDU pants, Kevlar helmets and Phoenix Police Department (PPD) raid shirts pulled over their body armor. The team members carried AR-15 rifles equipped with Aimpoint sights to help them during the low-light operation and, like most cops on a tactical team, in addition to their long guns, the members of this team carried secondary weapons -- pistols strapped to their thighs. 
But the raid took a strange turn when one element of the team began directing suppressive fire on the residence windows while the second element entered -- a tactic not normally employed by the PPD. This breach of departmental protocol did not stem from a mistake on the part of the teamâ€™s commander. It occurred because the eight men on the assault team were not from the PPD at all. These men were not cops serving a legal search or arrest warrant signed by a judge; they were cartel hit men serving a death warrant signed by a Mexican drug lord. 


​


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## saltwatersensations (Aug 30, 2004)

CHARLIE said:


> mas360
> 
> A dozen guys all dressed alike in SWAT uniforms and guys wearing raid jackets cannot be mistaken for imposters. One or two guys yes, but not that many.


In these times I would have to disagree. Serving a warrant does not justify the danger of busting in someones door.


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## On The Hook (Feb 24, 2009)

Wow, I just posted about the likelyhood of a scenario like this happening not 5 minutes ago in another thread. Hopefully this will serve as a wake up call to government, that this type of response should only be used in RARE and special circumstances where innocent lives are in danger.

I'm glad this guy was treated fairly by the courts.


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## SharkBait >*)\\\><( (May 16, 2012)

bill said:


> http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/mexican_cartels_and_fallout_phoenix
> 
> Late on the night of June 22, a residence in Phoenix was approached by a heavily armed tactical team preparing to serve a warrant. The members of the team were wearing the typical gear for members of their profession: black boots, black BDU pants, Kevlar helmets and Phoenix Police Department (PPD) raid shirts pulled over their body armor. The team members carried AR-15 rifles equipped with Aimpoint sights to help them during the low-light operation and, like most cops on a tactical team, in addition to their long guns, the members of this team carried secondary weapons -- pistols strapped to their thighs.
> But the raid took a strange turn when one element of the team began directing suppressive fire on the residence windows while the second element entered -- a tactic not normally employed by the PPD. This breach of departmental protocol did not stem from a mistake on the part of the teamâ€™s commander. It occurred because the eight men on the assault team were not from the PPD at all. These men were not cops serving a legal search or arrest warrant signed by a judge; they were cartel hit men serving a death warrant signed by a Mexican drug lord.
> ...


exactly!
anyone who enters my house in the middle of the night uninvited will be shot with extreme prejudice


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## mas360 (Nov 21, 2006)

CHARLIE said:


> mas360
> 
> A dozen guys all dressed alike in SWAT uniforms and guys wearing raid jackets cannot be mistaken for imposters. One or two guys yes, but not that many.


That may be true, but you never know how well bad guys may be funded.

Most importantly in the eyes of the court that argument did not stand.


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## glennkoks (Jun 24, 2009)

No knock warrents, checkpoints 50 miles from the border, NSA reading my every email, drones and even red light cameras are all too big brother for me. 

Personally I am more afraid of armed government employees than I am of whom ever they are trying to protect me from. 

Our founding fathers put protections in place to guard against just such abuses of power. I would prefer we keep them in place.


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## Spirit (Nov 19, 2008)

SharkBait >*)\\\><( said:


> anyone can yell police, if my door gets broken down in the middle of the night im slinging lead.


Ditto. Generally speaking, anyone kicking in my door is not there to sell me Tupperware. Protecting my family and home from the intruder will be my goal. Anyone can yell "Police!" And lots of criminals do.


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## misbhavn (Nov 19, 2010)

glennkoks said:


> Our founding fathers put protections in place to guard against just such abuses of power. I would prefer we keep them in place.


Too late, unfortunately.


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## glenbo (Apr 9, 2010)

glennkoks said:


> No knock warrents, checkpoints 50 miles from the border, NSA reading my every email, drones and even red light cameras are all too big brother for me.
> 
> Personally I am more afraid of armed government employees than I am of whom ever they are trying to protect me from.
> 
> Our founding fathers put protections in place to guard against just such abuses of power. I would prefer we keep them in place.


 Exactly right. We are still supposed to be the United States of America and presumed innocent until proved guilty. Personally, I am against no-knock warrants for anything except proven muslim scumbags who are involved in terrorism related activity. And I don't believe that there is ever any reason for cops to wear face masks or balaclava to hide their identity. That's about as chickenstuff as anything can be, it's just another way for them to be bullies anonymously. The cops are getting to be way too militarized in many locales and taking their "us against them" mentality far too seriously.


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## Ernest (May 21, 2004)

I like the part about he owned an aggressive dog. Seriously, I expect my dog to get excited when strangers come around in the middle of the night. Barking, growling, showing his teeth, that sort of thing. I would call that a "well trained" dog that is doing his job. 

Kinda surprised the cops did not shoot the dog.


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## Blk Jck 224 (Oct 16, 2009)

CHARLIE said:


> mas360
> 
> A dozen guys all dressed alike in SWAT uniforms and guys wearing raid jackets cannot be mistaken for imposters. One or two guys yes, but not that many.


This isn't rational thinking.


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## Fishin' Soldier (Dec 25, 2007)

bill said:


> http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/mexican_cartels_and_fallout_phoenix
> 
> Late on the night of June 22, a residence in Phoenix was approached by a heavily armed tactical team preparing to serve a warrant. The members of the team were wearing the typical gear for members of their profession: black boots, black BDU pants, Kevlar helmets and Phoenix Police Department (PPD) raid shirts pulled over their body armor. The team members carried AR-15 rifles equipped with Aimpoint sights to help them during the low-light operation and, like most cops on a tactical team, in addition to their long guns, the members of this team carried secondary weapons -- pistols strapped to their thighs.
> But the raid took a strange turn when one element of the team began directing suppressive fire on the residence windows while the second element entered -- a tactic not normally employed by the PPD. This breach of departmental protocol did not stem from a mistake on the part of the teamâ€™s commander. It occurred because the eight men on the assault team were not from the PPD at all. These men were not cops serving a legal search or arrest warrant signed by a judge; they were cartel hit men serving a death warrant signed by a Mexican drug lord.


Yup


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## mas360 (Nov 21, 2006)

SharkBait >*)\\\><( said:


> exactly!
> anyone who enters my house in the middle of the night uninvited will be shot with extreme prejudice


I cannot blame you, but you better shoot good and fast. At the least you would not die in vain. From news reports we have seen lately the police has come across no better than gangs of thugs.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/25/jose-guerena-arizona-_n_867020.html

An ex-Marine in Arizona was gunned down in May 2011 in his home during daylight hour by a raiding SWAT team while his wife and pre-school child cowered in their bedroom closet. He came out of their bedroom with an AR15 with safety still engaged. He ended up with 60 bullet holes in his body when the smoke cleared. He did not have any criminal record. No drugs or anything illegal were found in his home. The involved LE made bogus claims on multiple times to the press about the raid.

The saddest part of it all is that news like this does not draw as much public attention as to news flash of who is boning Kim Kardashian this week.


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## TrueblueTexican (Aug 29, 2005)

*Have a Friend in Kilgore*

Sheriffs deputies kicked in his door at 2AM to serve a warrant - he shot and killed one, wounded another - they served the WRONG address - he had manslaughter charges filed on him, cost him 300K in attorney fees - it was a tragedy for the department and a tragedy for my friend - this bankrupted him before he was cleared -

It far past time that no- knocks should be allowed - one tragedy is one too many - so what if the evidence is flushed down a toilet? Hardly worth someones life or livelyhood - real criminals will always trip up later -


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## glennkoks (Jun 24, 2009)

I don't know for sure because he has been dead for 214 years but I am assuming if anyone kicked George Washington's door in during the middle of the night the first one in line would meet an untimely demise via musket ball to the head. 

Once again it's just speculation on my part based on what I have read.


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## TrueblueTexican (Aug 29, 2005)

*Just a FEW mistakes*

https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=...d=107456772442022648692.000477715971d8ea1d429

I have nothing but respect for LEO's who must follow orders, they have a tough job -


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## SharkBait >*)\\\><( (May 16, 2012)

mas360 said:


> I cannot blame you, but you better shoot good and fast. At the least you would not die in vain. From news reports we have seen lately the police has come across no better than gangs of thugs.
> 
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/25/jose-guerena-arizona-_n_867020.html
> 
> ...


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/25/jose-guerena-arizona-_n_867020.html
here is the story, there is a video somewhere too, that is pretty disturbing
i think the worst thing is the let him bleed on the ground for an hour with his wife and kid in the house, really no way to treat a veteran.
personally i think the marine should have defended his castle.


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## mas360 (Nov 21, 2006)

SharkBait >*)\\\><( said:


> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/25/jose-guerena-arizona-_n_867020.html
> here is the story, there is a video somewhere too, that is pretty disturbing
> i think the worst thing is the let him bleed on the ground for an hour with his wife and kid in the house, really *no way to treat a veteran*.
> personally i think the marine should have defended his castle.


Regardless of service record, no one should be treated that way especially where guilt is not yet established.

In this case the LE involved acted as judge, jury and executioner with extreme prejudice.


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## Timemachine (Nov 25, 2008)

SharkBait >*)\\\><( said:


> exactly!
> anyone who enters my house in the middle of the night uninvited will be shot with extreme prejudice


Did NOT waste my time reading 3 pages of stuff. Sharkbait covered it right here!! Even my children have been instructed to shoot first if in doubt. I'd rather bring them a cake in prison than bring flowers to their grave!!


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## Game-Over (Jun 9, 2010)

Timemachine said:


> Even my children have been instructed to shoot first if in doubt.


Unfortunately, that's what the cops have been trained to do as well.


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## photofishin (Aug 7, 2009)

all this over a few pot plants...pretty stupid if you ask me. The family of the slain officer ought to sue the department for making such a bonehead decision to serve a no knock warrant on a pot dealer in the middle of the night.


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## Pasadena1944 (Mar 20, 2010)

TrueblueTexican said:


> Sheriffs deputies kicked in his door at 2AM to serve a warrant - he shot and killed one, wounded another - they served the WRONG address - he had manslaughter charges filed on him, cost him 300K in attorney fees - it was a tragedy for the department and a tragedy for my friend - this bankrupted him before he was cleared -
> 
> It far past time that no- knocks should be allowed - one tragedy is one too many - so what if the evidence is flushed down a toilet? Hardly worth someones life or livelyhood - real criminals will always trip up later -


He needs to sue Killgore for his $300,000.00


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## teeroy (Oct 1, 2009)

On The Hook said:


> Hopefully this will serve as a wake up call to government, that this type of response should only be used in RARE and special circumstances where innocent lives are in danger.
> 
> I'm glad this guy was treated fairly by the courts.


You bust in someone's house, late at night, or anytime for that matter, you get to shoot at them without consequences. In reality, you'll probably be killed. I'm all for busting in on the bad guys, but I don't want to see someone prosecuted for protecting their home against an invader.

I will say, the people who are getting no-knock warrants done on their house probably have heat on them 24/7, FWIW. It's dangerous business.


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## Mad Mike (Dec 28, 2005)

SharkBait >*)\\\><( said:


> anyone can yell police, if my door gets broken down in the middle of the night im slinging lead.


^^This. I'm glad there were no charges against the man. No knock warrants will only lead to more of this.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Gotta splain that one to me .



Blk Jck 224 said:


> This isn't rational thinking.


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## 47741 (Jan 5, 2010)

If a few more cops are knocked off, then so be it. Maybe the point that no knock is ridiculous and should be illegal, will be gotten with a few deaths. Crass and wrong? Yes, but apparently, common sense isn't effective.

*I am not advocating killing anyone...it is a reap what you sow situation. Do stupid things, win stupid prizes. Sad thing is, had the "bad guy" gotten killed, nobody would have said a peep I bet.


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## Timemachine (Nov 25, 2008)

spirit said:


> Ditto. Generally speaking, anyone kicking in my door is not there to sell me Tupperware. Protecting my family and home from the intruder will be my goal. Anyone can yell "Police!" And lots of criminals do.


Says "Have to spread it around before you can green Spirit again!" but the thought was there. Well said!


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## tinman03 (May 21, 2006)

photofishin said:


> all this over a few pot plants...pretty stupid if you ask me. The family of the slain officer ought to sue the department for making such a bonehead decision to serve a no knock warrant on a pot dealer in the middle of the night.


 I believe the officer that was killed was the one who initiated things and got the warrant signed by the judge.


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## KEN KERLEY (Nov 13, 2006)

Sounds kind of like Ruby Ridge or Waco - LEOs trying to show how powerful they are. This guy wasn't going anywhere. If he had a job, arrest him there. If not, when he went to the store or somewhere pick him up there. He's a pot grower, not a terrorist. Anytime you go against a criminal, it can be dangerous but bust in a house, you know has guns, is increasing the danger. I want our good guys to protect and serve but I also want them to go home to their families. They're need too much.


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## kweber (Sep 20, 2005)

so the cops make a mistake and yell at you and bust in...
you shoot first...
they then have all the resources you don't...
you're dead and they say oops...
so much for all the big tough talk.


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## MEGABITE (May 21, 2004)

.


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## HunterGirl (Jan 24, 2011)

spirit said:


> Ditto. Generally speaking, anyone kicking in my door is not there to sell me Tupperware. Protecting my family and home from the intruder will be my goal. Anyone can yell "Police!" And lots of criminals do.


X2. BTW, how come no one is defending "no knock warrants"?


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## Won Hunglo (Apr 24, 2007)

Good news. Having some plant material does not justify a no knock warrant. 

Locked & loaded! Fake cops or not? I will take my chances.


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## capt4fish (Dec 4, 2004)

*Because ...*



HunterGirl said:


> X2. BTW, how come no one is defending "no knock warrants"?


In the vast majority of cases, "no knock warrants" are indefensable.
I believe most times, no knocks are used by wannabe cowboy type officers, looking for the adrenaline rush.

Terrible that a officer lost his life over less than 5lbs of pot. Never should have happened.

Sounds like the officer that was killed was the one pushing for the no knock. Too bad he won't get a do over.

This is the classic " I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6" scenario.


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## tunchistheman (Feb 25, 2010)

You can't just go around kicking peoples door in. You get whats coming.


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## Ernest (May 21, 2004)

Why? 

Cause America loves no knock warrants. They are an essential tool in our War on Drugs. A war we are going to win just about any day now. Real soon. Stay the course. Don't give up now. We have invested 40+ years in this war, and by God, we are going to see it through. 

Plus, its for the safety of the children, and if you have nothing to hide or have done nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear. The Justice system is all about "protecting and serving" the public. After all, the government is your friend. And, if you don't let us militarize the police and use these tactics, this whole place will look like Beirut in a matter of days. 

Sure, the government is not perfect, but a few innocent deaths is a small price to pay. 

Remember, there are only two choices here: no knock warrants or kinder gardeners main lining H at recess and then whoring themselves out after school to pay for the smack. My grandfather did not die face down on the beach in Italy so that kinder gardeners could jack H in the playground at Laura Ingall Elementary School. 

So, you are either with us or against us. And, if you are against us, that means you hate America and the terrorists win.


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## Billphish (Apr 17, 2006)

Get rid of no knocks and wanna be commando cops. Surround the suspect house, get on the bull horn and wait. What's the hurry? Worried about someone flushing a quantity of drugs down the toilet?


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

Ernest said:


> Why?
> 
> Cause America loves no knock warrants. They are an essential tool in our War on Drugs. A war we are going to win just about any day now. Real soon. Stay the course. Don't give up now. We have invested 40+ years in this war, and by God, we are going to see it through.
> 
> ...


 Dang, that's been up for an hour now and nobody's taken the bait yet..


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

glenbo said:


> And I don't believe that there is ever any reason for cops to wear face masks or balaclava to hide their identity. That's about as chickenstuff as anything can be, it's just another way for them to be bullies anonymously.


 It's also a way to keep from getting hot brass and powder burns off your face and neck in close-quarter operations. Of course, the main reason to use them is because chicks dig 'em and if the media shows up you can hide your identity until the department spokesman shows up to explain why you just hosed down a 98 year old lady in a wheelchair with your MP5.


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## judweiser (May 22, 2004)

Keeping mouth shut, for now.


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## EZCast (Aug 11, 2005)

i am with shark bait identify yourself. my son and daughter are more important to me and my wife than oops wrong house


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Some sick people out there..


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## Newbomb Turk (Sep 16, 2005)

CHARLIE said:


> mas360
> 
> A dozen guys all dressed alike in SWAT uniforms and guys wearing raid jackets cannot be mistaken for imposters. One or two guys yes, but not that many.


Raid was before sunrise, in the dark, through a 30" wide mobile home door. I'm sure he saw them all.


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## artys_only (Mar 29, 2005)

No nock ?
I think that someone braking into my house , might not like the out come , law enforcement is kind in a bad spot , want to get the bad guys but still need to follow some kind of protocol ? 

Me no like big brother ,  


Transplanted from the North


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## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

Police force in general are becoming to aggressive and intrusive.


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## AHL_1901 (Jan 22, 2013)

Its always nice to come home from a hard night at work and read about 2coolers wanting "more cops knocked off", I wonder why I don't look for people to fish with on here...sad.


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

AHL_1901 said:


> Its always nice to come home from a hard night at work and read about 2coolers wanting "more cops knocked off", I wonder why I don't look for people to fish with on here...sad.


 And other 2coolers not reading the whole post, and having completely forgotten about the concept of hyperbole.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Next time yall need a Cop call a treehugger.


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

CHARLIE said:


> Next time yall need a Cop call a treehugger.


 Really would do me just about as good. Response time out here usually runs 45 minutes and up..


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Dwilliams 35

Your probably correct most probably out answering BS calls . Not enough to go around to answer the real calls because no one wants to put up with folks who dont have a clue.
Also writing perfect reports since they are a one man unit trying to make the right decisions as to not get in hot water on unfounded charges by some. Pay aint too good either. Mite try the old saying regarding walking in another man's shoes before condeming.


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## HoustonKid (Dec 29, 2005)

On a no knock warrant the no knock and announce is only for the initial breach and entry. Once in the structure, you better be announcing police loudly and often. Most times with a marked patrol unit out front with the lights going.
The purpose of the no knock is for LE to gain entry into the structure as quickly as possible with as little advanced notice to the individuals inside. It is an officer safety issue. Get the door open before someone inside can grab a weapon and shot the officers as they are attempting to gain entry. 

Once inside the no knock does not apply. LE is supposed to knock on the door, announce their presence, allow time for the occupants to open the door. After all that, then breach the door. So a no knock could save up to a minute of someone inside preparing to shoot. 

Again, once inside, they should be announcing police unless it is deemed unsafe due to tactical reasons but even then someone is announcing police. Maybe outside on a patrol car PA or bullhorn.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

HC said:


> On a no knock warrant the no knock and announce is only for the initial breach and entry. Once in the structure, you better be announcing police loudly and often. Most times with a marked patrol unit out front with the lights going.


Thats the normal way its done and certainly many times after entry is made.


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## glenbo (Apr 9, 2010)

"It's also a way to keep from getting hot brass and powder burns off your face and neck in close-quarter operations."

Comes with the job. If they are afraid of it, they can always teach kindergarten.


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## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

photofishin said:


> all this over a few pot plants...pretty stupid if you ask me. The family of the slain officer ought to sue the department for making such a bonehead decision to serve a no knock warrant on a pot dealer in the middle of the night.


Ding, ding, ding.


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## Big Guns 1971 (Nov 7, 2013)

An officer killed because of some dope that is legal in some states. Go figure.


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## Big Guns 1971 (Nov 7, 2013)

This no knock is about as smart as the Webster police chasing a stolen car down Hwy 3 going 100 mph is fog so thick you couldn't see 25 feet in front of you. Yes the car did hit me going over 100 mph. I just don't see the need for it. They need to rethink this policy. I'm sorry I respect the PD but I also will protect my family if I feel they are in danger. I hope no one comes banging my door down in the middle of the night. I would be shooting too. The first goal should be to keep everyone safe by any feasible means possible. How about waiting for him to leave the house and then grab him. Wait until he is mowing the yard or something like that. I'm sure hope he wouldn't have killed another person on purpose.


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## glennkoks (Jun 24, 2009)

No knock warrants are just a bad idea. They put unnecessary risk on law enforcement officers and can put countless innocent people including women and children at risk. Get the bad guy outside in the open and make the arrest.

There are very, very few situations I can think of where a group of paramilitary officers are needed. Certainly not to take down the local druggie selling hippie lettuce.


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## Hardwired (Jun 12, 2012)

A tradgedy no doubt. A very avoidable tradgedy. 

It's 5 lbs of pot plants.
How much pot dealing can you do with 5lbs of plants. 
How do you quickly destroy 5lbs of plants in a trailer. 
They knew there were weapons inside. 
Information was from an informant that was arrested and screamed I know somebody worse to get off. 
It's a dang trailer. 
Just wait outside of the TRAILER when he steps out and takes a morning ****. 
DA should be fired for signing a no knock warrant. 
PD should not have agreed to said warrant in these circumstances.


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## mrau (Mar 17, 2010)

glennkoks said:


> No knock warrants are just a bad idea. They put unnecessary risk on law enforcement officers and can put countless innocent people including women and children at risk. Get the bad guy outside in the open and make the arrest.
> 
> There are very, very few situations I can think of where a group of paramilitary officers are needed. Certainly not to take down the local druggie selling hippie lettuce.


That's just it. There were an average of 2,000-3,000 no knock raids annually in the mid 80s. *Currently the average is 70,000-80,000. *Too much military surplus hardware passed on to too many PDs that don't need them. Once they have all that military gear they start using it in situations where it isn't needed.

Most of these in the past would have been handled by a few units out front and a megaphone. Not by bursting in unannounced like a military fire team.

A Government of Wolves: The Emerging American Police State, by John Whitehead details this subject very well. And he's not an anti LEO whack job. He's a highly regarded constitutional attorney.


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## Ernest (May 21, 2004)

The no knock warrant was signed by a Judge based upon one or more affidavits signed by police officers.


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## glennkoks (Jun 24, 2009)

Ernest said:


> The no knock warrant was signed by a Judge based upon one or more affidavits signed by police officers.


If I was a judge I would sign a no knock warrant only in the rarest of rare situtations dealing with the worst of the the worst violent criminals/terrorists.

I'm not saying there is no place in our society for no knocks, but it would be a very rare tool in law enforcement. Certainly not for the local dealer slinging hippie lettuce.


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## wellconnected (May 30, 2005)

Just bad decisions made all the way around by every single person involved. Unfortunately a good human being lost his life that day based on those decisions. Just another tragedy that happens every single day in this world.


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## Capt.Schenk (Aug 10, 2005)

All of that for "less than five pounds of marijuana plants"? Not "less than five pounds" of saleable/smokeable marijuana, but "less than five pounds" of the plant. I highly doubt this guy was a threat to society. Leave him be, and everything would've been fine.


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## SharkBait >*)\\\><( (May 16, 2012)

dwilliams35 said:


> Really would do me just about as good. Response time out here usually runs 45 minutes and up..


if you need a cop in austin, go to the nearest Dan's Hamburgers...


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## TrueblueTexican (Aug 29, 2005)

*A sad day for Americans*

Its not a PD problem really they have been outgunned far too long.

The Justice system as lost sight of the 4th amendment of the US Constitution by a broad definition, giving uber powers to sworn statements by LEO to obtain that intrusion into someone home.

Under the Fourth Amendment, search and seizure (including arrest) should be limited in scope according to specific information supplied to the issuing court, usually by a law enforcement officer who has sworn by it.

Fourth Amendment case law deals with three central questions: what government activities constitute "search" and "seizure"; what constitutes probable cause for these actions; and how violations of Fourth Amendment rights should be addressed.

Early court decisions limited the amendment's scope to a law enforcement officer's physical intrusion onto private property, but with Katz v. United States (1967), the Supreme Court held that its protections, such as the warrant requirement, extend to the privacy of individuals as well as physical locations.

Law enforcement officers need a warrant for most search and seizure activities, but the Court has defined a series of exceptions for consent searches, motor vehicle searches, evidence in plain view, exigent circumstances, border searches, and other situations.

A bright lawyer one day soon will take no-knock gestapo tactics to the Supreme Court, for a principal residence of a suspected offender they should not be allowed, when dealing with drug processing places , warehouses and the like - no problem

Until that day good officers and innocent citizens will continue to lose their lives.


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## bngluce (Mar 15, 2007)

Obviously none of you are in law enforcement and have no clue what you are talking about. No knock warrants are only used to preserve evidence and if there is reason to believe the suspects will be armed. Law enforcement uses these warrants because it is even more unsafe to stand at a door knocking and allowing a turd to go for a gun than entering the house and stopping them from getting to one. And when officers do use no knock warrants they ALWAYS announce after the initial breach who they are SO the home owners do not think they are being robbed. A judge (who was elected by the public) signed the warrant and obviously agreed there was need for the no knock warrant. The only reason the turd was not charged is the grand jury is weak. The turd knew who was in his house and is using the excuse he was being robbed as a BS excuse! If you are not selling dope then officers will never enter your house unannounced. The home owner was not a wonderful person. He had dope in his house and was selling it. No matter what the amount was.


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## HoustonKid (Dec 29, 2005)

I have yet to see one that was signed to preserve evidence. Always, always, always sought due to officer safety concerns has been my expierence. If you are hoping to make your case off of the warrant. Go do more work. Have your case made prior to the warrant. Anything seized then will only strengthen your case. Not make it. That's my therory anyway. 

BTW, I have never sought a no knock but have executed a few on other's cases. If it is that dangerous, I wait until I can grab them away from the house. Just how I do it. Other LE feel differently and that's fine. Of course there are facts in this case we don't know so if they felt they needed one, that's between them, the judge, and DA. 

True about being a terd. Don't sell dope and sleep worry free. Kills me when peoe start voicing an opinion on what laws to enforce. It's only weed. Let it go. Then where does it stop? 
Stay safe.


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## ByGodTx (Sep 15, 2010)

Police officers need to remember the oath they took to the Constitution. They should be the wall between the American people and tyranny.


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## HoustonKid (Dec 29, 2005)

ByGodTx said:


> Police officers need to remember the oath they took to the Constitution. They should be the wall between the American people and tyranny.


So enforcing the drug laws in Texas is tyranny? That's what this thread is about, right? A warrant served for a drug law violation as evidenced by the illegal drugs found in the residence. Following the law as it is written. Obtaining a legal no knock warrant. Again, tyranny? Really?

Cops doing their job legally. Now if you want to attack the justice system go ahead but the cops. No. They are working within the law. Now who gives them that authority? Law makers. Start there.


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## TrueblueTexican (Aug 29, 2005)

*Thin Blue Line*



bngluce said:


> Obviously none of you are in law enforcement and have no clue what you are talking about. No knock warrants are only used to preserve evidence and if there is reason to believe the suspects will be armed. Law enforcement uses these warrants because it is even more unsafe to stand at a door knocking and allowing a turd to go for a gun than entering the house and stopping them from getting to one. And when officers do use no knock warrants they ALWAYS announce after the initial breach who they are SO the home owners do not think they are being robbed. A judge (who was elected by the public) signed the warrant and obviously agreed there was need for the no knock warrant. The only reason the turd was not charged is the grand jury is weak. The turd knew who was in his house and is using the excuse he was being robbed as a BS excuse! If you are not selling dope then officers will never enter your house unannounced. The home owner was not a wonderful person. He had dope in his house and was selling it. No matter what the amount was.


Ya'll got a thankless job to do, and you are closer to the "problems" than most of us - the PROBLEM with such home entry is that it is an invasion of what once were protected rights. In zealous and righteous pursuit of a known or suspected bad actor, if you got em penned up, keep em so - even if needed evidence is flushed - busting down a door is making your job MORE DANGEROUS not less.

Some outside the box thinkin - a sleep agent introduced in the air supply and a prybar an hour later

Projected force is met with even more force and ya'll are forcing an ever increasing spiral in force meeting force - law abiding citizens should not fear their police , I'd just as soon see you shoot first and get forgiven later -

In spite of PDs best efforts mistaken addresses happen almost daily - is it worth loosing your life, or making that kind of mistake? I hope the COP is wise giving directions to his officers.

ONE FATALITY IS ONE TOO MANY


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## omgidk (Nov 5, 2010)

HC said:


> On a no knock warrant the no knock and announce is only for the initial breach and entry. Once in the structure, you better be announcing police loudly and often. Most times with a marked patrol unit out front with the lights going.
> The purpose of the no knock is for LE to gain entry into the structure as quickly as possible with as little advanced notice to the individuals inside. It is an officer safety issue. Get the door open before someone inside can grab a weapon and shot the officers as they are attempting to gain entry.
> 
> Once inside the no knock does not apply. LE is supposed to knock on the door, announce their presence, allow time for the occupants to open the door. After all that, then breach the door. So a no knock could save up to a minute of someone inside preparing to shoot.
> ...


X2 exactly...


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

HC said:


> Cops doing their job legally. Now if you want to attack the justice system go ahead but the cops. No. They are working within the law. Now who gives them that authority? Law makers. Start there.


They must brain wash yall with that **** in school or somewhere. I ain't buying it. There is personal responsibility in EVERY profession, even being a LEO. You are personally responsible. Don't blame a lawmaker when, God forbid, you kill an innocent man protecting his home in the middle of the night when you screwed up the address. Or shoot a 70 something in his own driveway. YOU are personally responsible for making sound and fair decisions as to what is right. People walk way from bad directions by management every day. Not just blindly following. The **** soldiers blindly followed Hitler and they killed 6 million innocent Jews. Again, YOU are personally responsible. Never forget it.


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## AHL_1901 (Jan 22, 2013)

This wonderful citizen many are defending his rights, is the same guy who is stealing your radios out of your cars at night, taking your rims and breaking your $500 window to take $5 in change from the console. In a thread about that, you would be calling for blood, talking about how if he did that too your car or property he'd have [insert some manly gun or bullet] waiting for him.

Police wait until he goes to work, great idea. He jumps in his car and now a vehicle pursuit is on. he hits and kills a family down the road. Now your blaming the police for not getting him sooner. that has happened.

Police surround the trailer, he barricades himself inside with weapons. He now prepares to defend his tiny pot plant stash with his assault rifle he stole last week because you left it in your truck when you went into HEB. Maybe hes crazy, kills his family (that's happened) maybe he creates a cross fire (trailer's are not known for their bullet proof qualities) and a neighbor gets tagged, maybe he uses his wife as a human shield (that happens too). Now the police are to blame again, why did they give him the chance? Or maybe he comes out with his hands up and surrenders? very possible also. That warrant was signed by a judge. those plants are illegal. what happened is very sad and that guy should have a needle hanging from his arm. god be with the family of that hero who lost his life.


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## HoustonKid (Dec 29, 2005)

HydraSports said:


> They must brain wash yall with that **** in school or somewhere. I ain't buying it. There is personal responsibility in EVERY profession, even being a LEO. You are personally responsible. Don't blame a lawmaker when, God forbid, you kill an innocent man protecting his home in the middle of the night when you screwed up the address. Or shoot a 70 something in his own driveway. YOU are personally responsible for making sound and fair decisions as to what is right. People walk way from bad directions by management every day. Not just blindly following. The **** soldiers blindly followed Hitler and they killed 6 million innocent Jews. Again, YOU are personally responsible. Never forget it.


Which none of what you say apply in this case. No wrong address. No mistaken identity. A terd at his house in possession of illegal drugs. What's the problem?

O, where is your yetti btw. Stolen by terds like this guy. Could be wrong. I am sure this guy has never been arrested.


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## ByGodTx (Sep 15, 2010)

HC said:


> So enforcing the drug laws in Texas is tyranny? That's what this thread is about, right? A warrant served for a drug law violation as evidenced by the illegal drugs found in the residence. Following the law as it is written. Obtaining a legal no knock warrant. Again, tyranny? Really?
> 
> Cops doing their job legally. Now if you want to attack the justice system go ahead but the cops. No. They are working within the law. Now who gives them that authority? Law makers. Start there.


Yes my statement was general and not referring to this case but the ever growing militarization(sp) of police departments in our country.


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

HC said:


> Which none of what you say apply in this case. No wrong address. No mistaken identity. A terd at his house in possession of illegal drugs. What's the problem?
> 
> O, where is your yetti btw. Stolen by terds like this guy. Could be wrong. I am sure this guy has never been arrested.


I am not talking about this case in particular. I have heard other LEO say the same BS about don't blame them, blame the lawmakers. THAT IS BS. Every person has to accept personal responsibility for their actions. Stop hiding behind lawmakers as your excuse for doing things you know are wrong. If you don't know that No refusal blood draws and no knock warrants are wrong at their very core of what our country stands for, then you need to do some soul searching.

Regarding the OP, all of this over 5 lbs of live weed plants.......Come on. Do you seriously really think that a No Knock was the right call??????? It got an officer killed, God rest his soul. They found nothing else, 5 lbs of live weed, so about .5 lbs street weight. Ridiculous.

BTW, if some terd steals my Yeti, that is my fault and you won't hear me whine about. I take personal responsibility for being stupid enough for them to beat me.


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## Capt.Schenk (Aug 10, 2005)

According to the article, the cops busted-in unannounced to seize 12-15 marijuana plants on a tip from an informant. According to the article, this guy has a history of growing and selling marijuana. With hindsight, I know it's easy to rhetorically ask the question "was it worth it?". But for future reference, is 12-15 pot plants worth this type of intrusion into someone's home? And who are the cops protecting by busting this guy? The people to whom he sells pot? The article may not be accurate, but it didn't say anything about any other type of illegal drug listed on the warrant. If it was really important to "get this guy off the streets" in order to protect the public from buying and smoking pot, choose a better method of doing so. In principal, it might be slightly different if he was dealing for a cartel, but the dude was growing his own. That's like busting into my house for making moonshine. Yes, it's illegal, but does anyone really care about people making their own moonshine? Why is pot any worse and/or different? Heck, they make TV programs about moonshiners. I'm not taking a stance on the tragic outcome of the situation, I'm just saying that the presumption of this guy possessing 12-15 marijuana plants isn't worth putting peoples lives in harms way, whether it's LEO's or the suspect's or suspect's family's.


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## 47741 (Jan 5, 2010)

bngluce said:


> *If you are not selling dope then officers will never enter your house unannounced.* The home owner was not a wonderful person. He had dope in his house and was selling it. No matter what the amount was.


The bolded is a false statement. Cops NEVER break down the door on the wrong house. There has never been a news story about that. Cops never go in ready to play shoot-em-up...no single stories about that either.

Nobody said the h.o. was wonderful, but for 5 lbs of pot plants (not even smokeable pot) and no illegal guns (says his lawyer) is nonsense.

No reason. No reason he couldn't be watched, then the house searched when he was gone. Nobody stays in their house forever.

Now what do you coppers have to show for it? A couple of pot plants and a dead cop. Yea...GREAT call. Thankfully, we the people, can sleep safe at night now.

:headknock


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## Lrtexasman (Oct 19, 2006)

bill said:


> No knock warrants should only be used if someone's life is in immediate danger
> 
> Also permitted to prevent the destruction of evidence.


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## BATWING (May 9, 2008)

I recall many cases of wrong address issues.


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## gettinspooled (Jun 26, 2013)

BATWING said:


> I recall many cases of wrong address issues.


There have been many wrong address raids that have resulted in both people and pets being killed by police. Then of course no responsibility is taken when these things take place.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berwyn_Heights,_Maryland_mayor's_residence_drug_raid

They will do this to the mayor of the town then release a statement like "In August 2010, Sheriff Jackson stated that "we'd do it again. Tonight."

There are numerous instances of these things happening. It is a flat out dangerous policy.


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## teeroy (Oct 1, 2009)

HC said:


> Cops doing their job legally. Now if you want to attack the justice system go ahead but the cops. No. They are working within the law. Now who gives them that authority? Law makers. Start there.


I've said the *exact same thing* and was told that Hitler's people were "following orders." LMAO

But you're right. The courts set the laws. If we don't play by their rules whose do we use? Yours? Mine? No, each officer would be left totally to his own conscience. So instead of trying to find 9 great legal minds we are stuck with finding some 900,000 great legal scholars. These are the accepted rules we go by.

I don't like Obama Care as a "tax" either, but it the rule of law in the country. I can either live with it, start a revolt or move to another country.

Most of these case laws (which is usually what governs police actions) are much deeper than you think. If it violates my conscience as a person who studies them in depth, I'll decline to follow the ruling or quit, whichever it takes.


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## teeroy (Oct 1, 2009)

BATWING said:


> I recall many cases of wrong address issues.


Is less than 1% many?


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## jesco (Jun 23, 2013)

teeroy said:


> Is less than 1% many?


In this citizens opinion, yes. That is too many. I support LEO's in their mostly thankless, dangerous jobs, but no knock warrants are just too dangerous for all parties involved. Dire emergencies only. Just my 2 cents.


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## teeroy (Oct 1, 2009)

jesco said:


> In this citizens opinion, yes. That is too many. I support LEO's in their mostly thankless, dangerous jobs, but no knock warrants are just too dangerous for all parties involved. Dire emergencies only. Just my 2 cents.


Someone already touched on it, but no knocks do serve their purpose. I would venture to go out on a limb and say that no knocks have probably preserved more life than not. Knocking on someone's door give them a chance to grab a gun. And the people that live in these houses were no knocks are getting served generally have a gun close by.


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## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

AHL_1901 said:


> This wonderful citizen many are defending his rights, is the same guy who is stealing your radios out of your cars at night, taking your rims and breaking your $500 window to take $5 in change from the console. In a thread about that, you would be calling for blood, talking about how if he did that too your car or property he'd have [insert some manly gun or bullet] waiting for him.
> 
> Police wait until he goes to work, great idea. He jumps in his car and now a vehicle pursuit is on. he hits and kills a family down the road. Now your blaming the police for not getting him sooner. that has happened.
> 
> Police surround the trailer, he barricades himself inside with weapons. He now prepares to defend his tiny pot plant stash with his assault rifle he stole last week because you left it in your truck when you went into HEB. Maybe hes crazy, kills his family (that's happened) maybe he creates a cross fire (trailer's are not known for their bullet proof qualities) and a neighbor gets tagged, maybe he uses his wife as a human shield (that happens too). Now the police are to blame again, why did they give him the chance? Or maybe he comes out with his hands up and surrenders? very possible also. That warrant was signed by a judge. those plants are illegal. what happened is very sad and that guy should have a needle hanging from his arm. god be with the family of that hero who lost his life.


You should be writing police drama shows for TV. You'd be good at it.


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## jesco (Jun 23, 2013)

teeroy said:


> Someone already touched on it, but no knocks do serve their purpose. I would venture to go out on a limb and say that no knocks have probably preserved more life than not. Knocking on someone's door give them a chance to grab a gun. And the people that live in these houses were no knocks are getting served generally have a gun close by.


My main concern sir is that any mistaken or wrong address breached with a no knock warrant may well have a gun close by as well. The consequences could be, and have been, terrible for either party involved. But you do make a good point, there are instances where surprise, properly excecuted, can be an LEO's best option. I personally feel that the OP's example was NOT a good use of no knock warrants.


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## teeroy (Oct 1, 2009)

jesco said:


> My main concern sir is that any mistaken or wrong address breached with a no knock warrant may well have a gun close by as well. The consequences could be, and have been, terrible for either party involved. But you do make a good point, there are instances where surprise, properly excecuted, can be an LEO's best option. I personally feel that the OP's example was NOT a good use of no knock warrants.


And if the police bust in on the wrong house and something bad happens everybody needs to be held 100% accountable for everything they mess up. There are instances where honest mistakes happen and some information was bad. I am talking about when the police are negligent they should be held accountable for everything, and they are from what I can see.


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## capt4fish (Dec 4, 2004)

*Not entirely....*



teeroy said:


> And if the police bust in on the wrong house and something bad happens everybody needs to be held 100% accountable for everything they mess up. There are instances where honest mistakes happen and some information was bad. I am talking about when the police are negligent they should be held accountable for everything, and they are from what I can see.


The cops that killed the arizona vet are not in jail on murder charges. The cities and departments have payed up to the tune of several million dollars. But I have not read that the cops that shot over 60 rounds in the free fire excercise have not been charged with even man slaughter.

They should be doing time along with all supervisors for straight up murder.


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## smacha538 (Jun 11, 2012)

Now I remember why I stopped reading TTMB...true ignorance at its finest


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## teeroy (Oct 1, 2009)

smacha538 said:


> Now I remember why I stopped reading TTMB...true ignorance at its finest


Which ones are ignorant?



capt4fish said:


> The cops that killed the arizona vet are not in jail on murder charges. The cities and departments have payed up to the tune of several million dollars. But I have not read that the cops that shot over 60 rounds in the free fire excercise have not been charged with even man slaughter.
> 
> They should be doing time along with all supervisors for straight up murder.


I'm not familiar with that one I suppose


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## ByGodTx (Sep 15, 2010)

smacha538 said:


> Now I remember why I stopped reading TTMB...true ignorance at its finest


True ignorance at its finest? People are expressing their opinion. Do enlighten the unwashed masses please!


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## capt4fish (Dec 4, 2004)

Here ya go.

http://rt.com/usa/guerena-arizona-swat-settlement-341/


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

CHARLIE said:


> Dwilliams 35
> 
> Your probably correct most probably out answering BS calls . Not enough to go around to answer the real calls because no one wants to put up with folks who dont have a clue.
> Also writing perfect reports since they are a one man unit trying to make the right decisions as to not get in hot water on unfounded charges by some. Pay aint too good either. Mite try the old saying regarding walking in another man's shoes before condeming.


 I'm not condemning. That's simply how long it takes to get here from there, plus a reasonable dispatch time, and they don't have enough guys to have somebody on this end of the country 24-7. I've called them four or five times over the years, quickest was probably 25 minutes, most were 45+. No big deal, we just learn that we've gotta take care of ourselves, because any police action is just in all likelihood going to be nothing but paperwork by the time they make the trip.. The mission may be "to protect and to serve", but there ain't much protecting going on here.. If you're moving out here and expecting city-level response time, you're just going to be sorely, sorely disappointed.

I'm good with that, we just have to realize we're probably on our own, and act accordingly.


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

teeroy said:


> And if the police bust in on the wrong house and something bad happens everybody needs to be held 100% accountable for everything they mess up. There are instances where honest mistakes happen and some information was bad. I am talking about when the police are negligent they should be held accountable for everything, and they are from what I can see.


http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=95475


 
 A 61-year-old man was shot to death by 
 police while his wife was handcuffed in another room during a drug 
 raid on the wrong house. 
 Police admitted their mistake, saying faulty information from a drug informant contributed to the death of John Adams Wednesday night. They intended to raid the home next door. 
 The two officers, 25-year-old Kyle Shedran and 24-year-old Greg Day, were placed on administrative leave with pay. 
 â€œThey need to get rid of those men, boys with toys,â€ said Adamsâ€™ 70-year-old widow, Loraine. 
 John Adams was watching television when his wife heard pounding on the door. Police claim they identified themselves and wore police jackets. Loraine Adams said she had no indication the men were police. 
 â€œI thought it was a home invasion. I said â€˜Baby, get your gun!,â€ she said, sitting amid friends and relatives gathered at her home to cook and prepare for Sundayâ€™s funeral. 
 Resident Fired First 
 Police say her husband fired first with a sawed-off shotgun and they responded. He was shot at least three times and died later at Vanderbilt University Medical Center in Nashville. 
 Loraine Adams said she was handcuffed and thrown to her knees in another room when the shooting began. 
 â€œI said, â€˜Yâ€™all have got the wrong person, youâ€™ve got the wrong place. What are you looking for?â€œâ€˜ 
 â€œWe did the best surveillance we could do, and a mistake was made,â€ Lebanon Police Chief Billy Weeks said. â€œItâ€™s a very severe mistake, a costly mistake. It makes us look at our own policies and procedures to make sure this never occurs again.â€ He said, however, the two policemen were not at fault. 
 The Tennessee Bureau of Investigation is investigating. NAACP officials said they are monitoring the case. Adams was black. The two policemen are white. 
 Family members did not consider race a factor and Weeks agreed, but said the shooting will be â€œa major setbackâ€ for police relations with the black community. 
 â€œWe know that, we hope to do everything we can to heal it,â€ Weeks said. 
 Johnny Crudup, a local NAACP official, said the organization wanted to make sure and would investigate on its own. 
 Weeks said he has turned the search warrant and all other evidence over to the bureau of investigation and District Attorney General Tommy Thompson. A command officer must now review all search warrants. 

Administrative leave with pay, plus a totally sincere "oopsie"..... Somebody with a badge needs to be in prison. At the very least that's negligent manslaughter..


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

teeroy said:


> There are instances where honest mistakes happen and some information was bad. I am talking about when the police are negligent they should be held accountable for everything, and they are from what I can see.


There is no such thing as an honest mistake when innocent citizens are killed by police. That is a rationalization by police so they can sleep at night. I will add that VERY VERY FEW criminal cases are so severe that No Knock on a private residence should be approved. Too many times overzealous attitudes cause mistakes, even to the point of misrepresenting the facts of the case in order to secure the Warrant, say nothing about a no knock. Neither of which is honest at its base level.


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## w_r_ranch (Jan 14, 2005)

teeroy said:


> Is less than 1% many?


Yes. If you are one of the '1%', you would feel the same way.


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## mrau (Mar 17, 2010)

teeroy said:


> And if the police bust in on the wrong house and something bad happens everybody needs to be held 100% accountable for everything they mess up. There are instances where honest mistakes happen and some information was bad. I am talking about when the police are negligent they should be held accountable for everything, and they are from what I can see.


Teeroy: No disrespect against you or any LEO. No knock warrants do have there place. But we've gone from 2,000-3,000 of them annually in the mid 80s to around 80,000 annually.

No knock warrants are being used more and more frequently in situations where they aren't needed. A few units could pull up outside and a megaphone used. Wrong address? Problem could be worked out without people dying that shouldn't. Lower risk criminal like a guy growing a few pot plants? Still no justification for a military style raid. Could he start taking shots at the LEOs outside telling him to come out with his hands up? Maybe. But that type of perp does not justify a no knock warrant. Too many safer ways to pick him up.

If it ever happens at our house in the middle of the night I'm not going to hear them yelling "Police" after they have busted in. Between sleep inertia, my 4 dogs going crazy, my 4 dogs being shot up, etc, I'm not going to hear anything legible and I'm going to start shooting at what I will assume are kick burglars.


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## FISHROADIE (Apr 2, 2010)

I hate some one got killed but they could have knocked on the guys door at decent hour. Its about time people wake up and see how our tax dollars are wasted. They got a tip from some one in jail, they did not do any research. What happened to good old fashion police work. The guy only had a couple of pot plants, he did not do anything to anybody. I am glad the jury decided the way they did.


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## Too Tall (May 21, 2004)

We've gone from Car 54 to carloads of Rambo wannabes in all their tactical gear, swat jackets and holier than thou attitudes.


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## boom! (Jul 10, 2004)

HC said:


> So enforcing the drug laws in Texas is tyranny? That's what this thread is about, right? A warrant served for a drug law violation as evidenced by the illegal drugs found in the residence. Following the law as it is written. Obtaining a legal no knock warrant. Again, tyranny? Really?
> 
> Cops doing their job legally. Now if you want to attack the justice system go ahead but the cops. No. They are working within the law. Now who gives them that authority? Law makers. Start there.


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## driftfish20 (May 13, 2006)

'nuff said!


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## Trouthappy (Jun 12, 2008)

Cops are hugely militarized these days, and they're ready to kick butt. A dozen of them dragged Tommy Chong naked out of bed, because there were pipes for sale downtown with his name brand. It's a wonder they didn't shoot him in bed. Whoops! Sorry. Cops also blow away a lot of family dogs that bark at them. Even one little cichaua that "got caught in the crossfire with another dog." And many others that "took an aggressive stance."


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## troutslayer (Feb 7, 2006)

Message to the LEOs in my area....do the research....its there.....no knock.....door gets kicked in......


we wont be serving donuts in my place......


what we will be serving will give you acute lead poisoning


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## KSHunter (Sep 22, 2011)

photofishin said:


> all this over a few pot plants...pretty stupid if you ask me. The family of the slain officer ought to sue the department for making such a bonehead decision to serve a no knock warrant on a pot dealer in the middle of the night.


Agree 100%. Isn't this the same county that sent an innocent man to death row for almost 20 years because of an a-h*** district attorney who had to get another notch on his gun?


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## fwoodwader (Jul 18, 2008)

I'm not a LEO but what is the tactical advantage of taking a guy in the middle of the night with no lights on in house and you have no idea what he might have inside the house and how well he might be defended vs waiting for the guy to leave his house and have some plain clothes officers grab him at the street.


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## 47741 (Jan 5, 2010)

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...-in-prison-for-possessing-unregistered-ammo/# He's going to trial now..finally. 
From another article:
Witaschek said there have been seven court hearings set since his arrest that summer, and he's still waiting to hear the government's justification for the raid.

Why not. He did something illegal. Was there a knock, I don't know. Probably not since the streets were shut down and a bathroom door was busted open.


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