# re-installing yamaha TRP props



## Gamble (Oct 27, 2005)

I know you have to index the props, but can someone please explain the easiest way to do this? Just had them reworked, and want to make sure they're on correctly. Thanks in advance.


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## Spots and Dots (May 23, 2004)

i had them off our old TRP twice....never paid attention to anything other than getting all the washers on in order.

I've heard of indexing, but am not sure it matters. The will spin in opposite directions in nuetral, so how do they know where they started?


sorry i'm not better help, but I don't think it matters.


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## Gamble (Oct 27, 2005)

not sure either............but I've been told by the prop folks and a dealer that they need to be indexed. I may have to take it somewhere to get it done, but supposedly they'll vibrate if they're not done correctly.


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## chuck115 (Feb 18, 2009)

my prop guy told me to install the first one with the straight edge of one of the blades in a verticle line with the mid section and then the second which will have a straight blade going the opposite direction in line with the first straight to straight basically. never had any vibrations


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## Gamble (Oct 27, 2005)

.......still tryin' to visualize that! I got the first prop, but can't picture placing the 2nd one!


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## Sonnysmarine (Mar 18, 2007)

I'm Calling a B.S. card on this,,,,No it does not matter, they are one two different props shafts and two different clutch dogs, If you did do as above said, the first time you shifted it they will lock in where the clutch dogs lines up. When you shift into the rev, only the large front prop, will lock into gear & The rear prop is free to spin. If they viberate you have other problems. Just make sure you get the all thrust washers on !!!


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## fishsmart (Dec 5, 2004)

I have a downloaded Yamaha TRP 2004 manual in a pdf file and will send via email to a limited number of requests. Send me you email in a PM. 

The file size is about 2megs.

Charles


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## Fishin-Inc (May 27, 2004)

*yes*

No BS you should install those props right or you're missing out.


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## GIGEM18 (Jan 29, 2008)

IT IS NOT BS. THERE IS A CORRECT WAY TO PUT THEM ON AND TWITCH IS RIGHT. PUT MOTOR IN GEAR. INSTALL FIRST PROP. WHEN INSTALLED CORRECTLY, IF YOU TURN FIRST PROP CLOCKWISE AND SECOND COUNTER CLOCKWISE, THE TWO STRAIGHT EDGES SHOULD BE LINED UP IN THE VERTICAL POSITION. THE REASON YOU PUT IT IN GEAR IS SO THE PROPS WILL NOT FREE SPIN. THEY WILL STOP AND WHEN THEY DO THE STRAIGHT EDGES SHOULD BE STRAIGHT UP AND DOWN IN THE SAME POSITION. THIS IS THE CORRECT WAY. DO WHAT YOU WANT, BUT IT WILL RUN BETTER LIKE THIS. GOOD LUCK, IF YOU HAVE ANY MORE QUESTIONS YOU CAN CALL ME AT CHRIS'S MARINE. 361-758-8486 KEITH


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## Sonnysmarine (Mar 18, 2007)

If any one is in POC I will show you one tore down and show you why once you put one in gear it will hit the first clutch dog available and for the two different clutch dogs on them.
Yes you do put one up top each time to install so you can put a 2x4 on top of the prop to stop it from moving and that is in the owners Manuel, service Manuel but no way to time them


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## redfishandy (Feb 28, 2009)

sonny i totally agree,only one prop works in reverse, so their goes the timing


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## NewbieFisher (Jun 3, 2009)

Sonnysmarine said:


> I'm Calling a B.S. card on this,,,,No it does not matter, they are one two different props shafts and two different clutch dogs, If you did do as above said, the first time you shifted it they will lock in where the clutch dogs lines up. When you shift into the rev, only the large front prop, will lock into gear & The rear prop is free to spin. If they viberate you have other problems. Just make sure you get the all thrust washers on !!!


unbelievable!!!!
the amount of bad information outways the good information by 200 tons.
it is a necessity. ask any certified yamaha mechanic.

We had John Meeks of Meeks outboard show us how to do it properly before he passed. And the explanation given by Gigem is exactly what was showed to us by a professional.


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## Gamble (Oct 27, 2005)

Hey thanks for all the help!! I know there is a right way to install them, and YES, it does matter, or there wouldn't be a detailed way to do it, nor would the prop guy have told me about it. Gigem, I'll give you a holler this afternoon when I get to the boat. Thanks in advance!


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## McTrout (May 22, 2004)

What Gigem said. They do need to be timed for best performance. It's really pretty easy, and once you do it they stay positioned that way for some reason. i know in 'clutch dog' theory it won't work...but check it out. Perhaps Tony Terry can add something.


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## redfishandy (Feb 28, 2009)

sonny all of our schooling wasted , we need to start over , dang it


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## Bigwater (May 21, 2004)

What are ya'll calling the mid section? Where is the straight edge on the prop?
I pulled my outer prop a few weeks back looking for fishing line. When i saw the big nut for the inner prop I slowed way down. Just didn't have a good feeling about taking the inner off. I think i was given a wrench for that nut when i bought my boat.
I put my outer prop back on and havent had any trouble. I do want to know the right way to do it though. Might go buy a book. Need one anyway.
We need pics for the thread so we can have a How To. 

Biggie


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## GIGEM18 (Jan 29, 2008)

*WHAT PROPS SHOULD LOOK LIKE*

I COULD NOT FIND A BOAT WITH TRP BUT HAVE PROPS. WITH MOTOR IN GEAR TURN FIRST BIG PROP CLOCKWISE. SECOND PROP COUNTER CLOCKWISE UNTIL IT STOPS. THE FIRST PIC IS WHAT THEY SHOULD LOOK LIKE. BLADE STRAIGHT EDGES IN LINE. BOTTOM PIC INCORRECT.


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## GIGEM18 (Jan 29, 2008)

THE TOP PIC IS EXACTLY WHAT YOUR PROPS SHOULD LOOK LIKE IF YOU LOOK AT THE PROPS ON YOUR TRP. THIS IS CORRECT PER YAMAHA.


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## Bigwater (May 21, 2004)

GIGEM18 said:


> THE TOP PIC IS EXACTLY WHAT YOUR PROPS SHOULD LOOK LIKE IF YOU LOOK AT THE PROPS ON YOUR TRP. THIS IS CORRECT PER YAMAHA.


That helps a lot. Thanks. I need to make sure i put my outer prop back on right.

Biggie:biggrin:


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## NewbieFisher (Jun 3, 2009)

redfishandy said:


> sonny all of our schooling wasted , we need to start over , dang it


Nah, not wasted. Maybe you just skipped class that day.

Better yet, install them anyway you want. If they run fine, all is good. If they vibrate, do what everyone else does, blame the propellor guy. We all know that neither one can fix anything correctly.


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## redfishandy (Feb 28, 2009)

perhaps we should spend all day telling other people they are wrong. all we are trying to do is help yall. but yall know better


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## redfishandy (Feb 28, 2009)

NewbieFisher said:


> unbelievable!!!!
> the amount of bad information outways the good information by 200 tons.
> it is a necessity. ask any certified yamaha mechanic.
> 
> We had John Meeks of Meeks outboard show us how to do it properly before he passed. And the explanation given by Gigem is exactly what was showed to us by a professional.


WE ARE CERTIFIED YAMAHA TECHS. :headknock


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## unclefes (Jul 13, 2006)

you know the old saying andy..you can lead a horse to water but you cant make him drink. im not really trying to butt in but i have had a trp lower unit on 2 different boats and i removed the props for service and repair lots of times, it never mattered how i put them back on as long as the spacers and washers were in the right order it would run without vibration. i may have just been lucky but i doubt it.. it just dosent seem to me that it could matter if you have 2 props spinning the opposite way and 1 prop that engages in reverse how they could ever stay "indexed" i have also had work done to my boats by sonnys marine in poc, and i currently have all my repairs done by andy in san antonio. if these boys tell you something it is because they know it is right.. both of these guys are trained mechanics and both are experts in their field...btw their pretty good guys too.


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## Ted Gentry (Jun 8, 2004)

Thanks for the thread, it made me go look at the props on my trp. They don't look anything like the first picture, but if you turn your head sideways and close one eye they do look a bit like the second picture. All kidding aside, thanks for the post and I'll pull them and reinstall when I have the time. The prop shop I use is first rate and if a mistake was made, it was made by me on the installation. I have noticed the fuel going faster than before but maybe we are just hauling more beer and ice. Once again, thanks to all that posted info on this thread.


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## Gamble (Oct 27, 2005)

Gigem, thanks for the pics!! I got'em on correctly. Hope this thread helps some folks.


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## Sonnysmarine (Mar 18, 2007)

redfishandy said:


> sonny all of our schooling wasted , we need to start over , dang it


 Dang I know and i Skipped Yamaha's 3 day class , this week I had signed up for on the new Engines, Due to my secretary having to miss several days. I only made a 96 in lower drive school in Oct 09 at Georgia so may have missed something , we did do Hooter's for lunch a couple days, heck at my age i'm happy i can rembemer anything.
But have Several Trps, at the shop right now,i printed the instructions out of the Service CD. and will install props as shown and mark them, turn the block over a few times a breakover bar, then go to rev, and back to foward and Hopfully Learn Somthing!
I will ask Our Tech next week after class he is a Master Tech I am not.
Just stating what i have observed, from working with them , rebuilding them, for the past 5 years, I may be missing the mark and learn something to help my customers get better performance , i'm all for it.

One more Quick note on my long windyness tonight,,,

:cheers: Way to Go to Calvin ( Shriek) @ Coastal Bend marine in Poc For making his Yamaha Master tech a couple weeks ago, that kicks butt!!! one of the few in Texas :cheers:


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## bk005 (Feb 23, 2005)

So what happens the first time i put it in reverse, let it spool then pop it in foward? Are you saying the gears are timed somehow? 

I read those instructions and have looked at few lower trp lower units sitting on my bench apart, and I do not see it. 


I dont care what anyone does, and by far dont listen to me, but I do like to understand things, and its not the first quirky thing I have seen in a manual. If the manual said to tap the third blade 3 times, there would be lots of prop guys saying to do the same. 

I could see if this was some kind of balancing thing but thats not it, because you would have to reference a specific blade. Once the unit is in motion, and regardless of gear ratio, there is no timing of blades to worry about because counter rotating blades dont care what the other one is doing, now if they both spun the same direction yeah.

Please spare me the bad information blah blah, I dont blindly follow all the time, and most shops wont even pop a TRP open. CAnt hurt to try and learn something new, even if Im wrong the time I spent thinking about it, I bound to have learned something today.


Just imagine those timed props sitting there self righteously blades opposed timed to the unison of mother nature, Now just turn the flywheel degree by degree, and you will get every indexing option under the sun imaginable, and have changed nothing.


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## Bigwater (May 21, 2004)

Sonny chimes in on a many a repair thread. He has given countless amounts of times. His posts have helped me and others many many times to understand things we may have not thought of. All you gotta do is look up his posts and you'll see he's about helping boaters. You boyz need to cut a little slack and rememebr that there is always two ways to get to Conroe. 

Biggie:biggrin:


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## GIGEM18 (Jan 29, 2008)

JUST SPOKE TO OUR CERTIFIED MECH AND HE SAID THAT HE HAS BEEN TOLD THAT YOU CAN DO IT EITHER WAY. HE WAS TOLD BY YAMAHA THAT YOU INDEX THEM FOR MAX PERFORMANCE. IF YOU INDEX THEM THEY WILL ALWAYS BE INDEXED BECAUSE IT HAS THREE EARED CLUTCH DOGS. NO MATTER WHAT POSITION THE DOGS GRAB, THE PROPS WILL BE IN CORRECT POSITION. 

SO I GUESS IT REALLY DOESNT MATTER. I ALSO LOOKED IN THE SERVICE MANUAL AND IT DOESNT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT INDEXING THEM. I HAVE WORKED AT SEVERAL SHOPS AND IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN STANDARD TO INDEX THEM. SO DO WHAT YOU WANT AND I GUESS IT REALLY DOESNT MATTER.


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## GIGEM18 (Jan 29, 2008)

SORRY IF I STEPPED ON ANYONES TOES, BUT I AM JUST TRYING TO HELP AS WELL. NOT CALLING ANYONE A LIAR.


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## Sonnysmarine (Mar 18, 2007)

Not stepping on my toes, but this morning first thing had a Shalow sport with TRP inside ,took off the props installed as per service manual and maked the props at `12 oclock postion after 4 rev of the flywheel, took plugs out and used breakover bar, the came back to the same spot, shifted to rev, and 3 revolutions , then back to foward they never came back to the marked spots again after 12 revolutions, I took pictures, but no time to post.. I was wanting to know for my own knowledge , so may be i could learn something and get better performance on them, but just do not see them staying in time, once you shift in to rev, My customer that owned the boat was watching also, laughing. I only want to help with things I know or pretty dang sure of and not give out false info. so i tested them my self. I will still ask out tech after class next Thrus, in C.C. for the 0ne day Yamaha Tech class. 
I have Micro popcorn at the shop come in and lets talk about it. LOL. I'm always open to learning something new, and guarantee not always right, and admit if i'm wrong, there was only one perfect person in this world and he died for my sins over 2000 years ago. Have a wonderful SONNY Friday


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## bk005 (Feb 23, 2005)

bk005 said:


> So what happens the first time i put it in reverse, let it spool then pop it in foward? Are you saying the gears are timed somehow?
> 
> I read those instructions and have looked at few lower trp lower units sitting on my bench apart, and I do not see it.
> 
> ...


Self.....You Rock.


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## redfishandy (Feb 28, 2009)

in the end we are all just trying to help oneanother. good luck fishing and may your beer always be cold!!!!


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## mchrismapp (Sep 17, 2005)

*Trp prop installation/indexing*

Good Morning,

I enjoy the watching the forums and usually don't jump in, but this is a great question and has some misguided answers.

1).According to the Yamaha outboard rigging guide in DX (twin prop model) there is no mention of clocking/indexing only attributes associated with slight noise or clutch dog movement.

2). Yamaha's Pre delivery Inspection form (PDI) only discusses prop torque not clocking,

3). Indexing props that free wheel and will never lock in the same position twice is like mounting tires and putting all the valve stems toward the ground. 
(if you would like to index and mark with a paint marker and start on garden in hose put in forward and then neutral, then reverse and back to neutral, see where they land.

4).My neighbor Sonny is right.

Thank you
Chris Mapp
Coastal Bend Marine


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## GIGEM18 (Jan 29, 2008)

WHAT DID YOU HEAR FROM YAMAHA SCHOOL SONNY?


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## Findeep (Mar 6, 2006)

Gigem18 is correct. Thanks for the visual. I noticed a slight vibration and cavitation with them not in line. I personally was a able to tell a complete difference in the two different installations when I had this problem. Lined up is the way to go.


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## jcoutboardsvc (May 4, 2009)

First have someone shift the engine into forward gear, ( engine not running ) make sure the thrust washer is on the propshaft. Install the first or large prop and rotate it with the flat edge inline with the edge casing of the lower unit. that prop will turn in a clock wise direction so you will set that holding pressure in a counter clockwise position. Nut washers etc... Second prop turns in a counter clockwise so hold pressure in a clockwise position and line it up as well.


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## Exploder (Sep 29, 2006)

Reviving an old thread here. I found this pretty interesting. I had a set of props cupped and installed them clocked with the edges in line like discussed. Has anyone else had any experience with this?


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## cottonpicker (Jan 25, 2010)

Exploder, you did it correctly if:
1) Shift into forward. Turn the front propeller shaft clockwise until free play is removed. Install front propeller with one blade pointing up and its trailing edge aligned with the center line of the lower case.
2)Turn the rear propeller shaft counterclockwise until free play is removed. Install the rear propeller with one blade pointing up and its trailing edge aligned with the centerline of the lower case.
Of course you have to get all the spacers, washers, lock nuts in the correct order and torqued to the correct specs. Don't forget to apply a good quality grease to shaft also.


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## cottonpicker (Jan 25, 2010)

Also, if you like to shift into forward while trailering to keep your props from spinning while trailering, you will need to turn the props while on trailer to this position to shift into forward gear. If they are not in this position, the gear selector will not move into forward gear with engine off. DO NOT try to force it forward. Very simple to do once you get in the habit of doing it.


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## Exploder (Sep 29, 2006)

Trailing edges of the props are lined up with the slack out as stated but I didn't line them up with one blade pointing up. Does it matter if one blade isn't pointing up? See pic.


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## Exploder (Sep 29, 2006)

Sorry for the sideways pic.


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## Crowhater (Jul 21, 2014)

For the record I am not a certified Yamaha Mechanic but I have stayed at a Holiday Inn and I do own a Yamaha 150 with TRP lower unit. I have had my props off many times and I have never clocked them. I would have to see for myself that they are still clocked after you have gone in reverse because in reverse the front prop spins. What is suppose to be the gain from clocking the props?


What I personally would be more interested in knowing is how running two different props effects performance. I know on airboats with counter rotating props having one with more pitch than the other makes more thrust. So on a TRP what would happen if you put a 21/19 or a 19/21?


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## cottonpicker (Jan 25, 2010)

My opinion would be if you ran a larger pitch prop in the front, you would be dragging the rear one along for the ride and it would actually be slowing you down. If running a larger pitch in the rear it would be pushing the front one and would probably make more thrust. But the rear prop shaft is more delicate and weaker, so I do not want mine to be doing more work than the front one. Just my opinion.


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## Exploder (Sep 29, 2006)

Crowhater said:


> For the record I am not a certified Yamaha Mechanic but I have stayed at a Holiday Inn and I do own a Yamaha 150 with TRP lower unit. I have had my props off many times and I have never clocked them. I would have to see for myself that they are still clocked after you have gone in reverse because in reverse the front prop spins. What is suppose to be the gain from clocking the props?
> 
> What I personally would be more interested in knowing is how running two different props effects performance. I know on airboats with counter rotating props having one with more pitch than the other makes more thrust. So on a TRP what would happen if you put a 21/19 or a 19/21?


I don't know that it really makes a difference to clock the props or not but I don't see where it would hurt to go ahead and clock them just in case it does make a difference. Supposedly from reading the earlier posts in this thread, clocking the props reduces the chance of vibration and makes them operate at maximum performance. Who knows?
I agree with cottonpicker on running different pitch props. Just doesn't sound like that would work to your advantage. Seems like it would add more stress to a smaller area than spreading equal stress throughout the entire assembly.


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## Exploder (Sep 29, 2006)

I would think that running different pitched props would be like running different sized tires on a 4 wheel drive truck. If you ran 33" tall tires in the front and 35" tall tires in the rear, you would have some issues for sure. I would think the same would apply. One would be pushing or dragging the other.


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## Crowhater (Jul 21, 2014)

OK 4x4 tire size, most mud racing trucks will run a taller gear in the front or a shorter tire in the front so the front wheel turn faster than the rear. This keeps the front end up and helps with steering. This is for 100% soft mud running not hard ground. 

Now on airboats with counter rotating props I have seen them use a smaller prop with less pitch in the front to feed a bigger prop in the rear. Think of it like a stacked twin turbo on a diesel truck, they use a smaller turbo that spools up quicker to feed the bigger turbo. By its self the big turbo makes more boost but you suffer from lag and you load the engine down until your boost builds. The little turbo alone will spool up quick but it cant make a great deal of boost.

Yamaha is the only source for these TRP props and I just wonder is there is more performance to be had if you tinker with the sizes.


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## Exploder (Sep 29, 2006)

Crowhater said:


> OK 4x4 tire size, most mud racing trucks will run a taller gear in the front or a shorter tire in the front so the front wheel turn faster than the rear. This keeps the front end up and helps with steering. This is for 100% soft mud running not hard ground.
> 
> Now on airboats with counter rotating props I have seen them use a smaller prop with less pitch in the front to feed a bigger prop in the rear. Think of it like a stacked twin turbo on a diesel truck, they use a smaller turbo that spools up quicker to feed the bigger turbo. By its self the big turbo makes more boost but you suffer from lag and you load the engine down until your boost builds. The little turbo alone will spool up quick but it cant make a great deal of boost.
> 
> Yamaha is the only source for these TRP props and I just wonder is there is more performance to be had if you tinker with the sizes.


 I would be interested in knowing also but I don't think I want to use mine for a guinea pig.


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## jorgepease (Apr 14, 2011)

I could see a little cupping on the back prop


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## Crowhater (Jul 21, 2014)

In the interest of Science I took my prop off this weekend and Indexed it like it was suggest on this thread. I hate to admit it but I might have been wrong. My 19 TRP blades are NEW, they have never been worked. The motor did seem to be smoother and it might have come out of the hole better. When I stopped the boat and checked the props later in the day they were still indexed correctly.


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## Exploder (Sep 29, 2006)

Crowhater said:


> In the interest of Science I took my prop off this weekend and Indexed it like it was suggest on this thread. I hate to admit it but I might have been wrong. My 19 TRP blades are NEW, they have never been worked. The motor did seem to be smoother and it might have come out of the hole better. When I stopped the boat and checked the props later in the day they were still indexed correctly.


Interesting....


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