# Leaky toilet



## mas360 (Nov 21, 2006)

My toilet would automatically refill the tank once every hour or so. I figured the two years old flap valve must be replaced and so I did. Well, the new flap valve helped a lot, now, it would auto refill every two to three hours. That was great, but it meant the leak was still there.....the question is how to fix it where the valve is 100% closed and no leak exists? 

I thought about attaching some fishing weight (hey, we are fishermen, aren't we?...:fish to the valve to give it some force pushing it all the way down. But this method would result in the user have to hold the flush lever down until the tank fully dump the water in it to flush the toilet. It is no longer the matter of actuating the lever and walk away. 

What do you think I should do next ??

Thanks

:an5:


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## Pier Pressure (Aug 30, 2009)

My downstairs toilet did the same as you described. I put a weight in the flapper after changing it, and yea holding the handle bites. I finally fixed this by replaceing the plastic part with the overflow tube that is mounted in the tank along with a new flapper. It drove me crazy when I heard the filler kick in.



mas360 said:


> My toilet would automatically refill the tank once every hour or so. I figured the two years old flap valve must be replaced and so I did. Well, the new flap valve helped a lot, now, it would auto refill every two to three hours. That was great, but it meant the leak was still there.....the question is how to fix it where the valve is 100% closed and no leak exists?
> 
> I thought about attaching some fishing weight (hey, we are fishermen, aren't we?...:fish to the valve to give it some force pushing it all the way down. But this method would result in the user have to hold the flush lever down until the tank fully dump the water in it to flush the toilet. It is no longer the matter of actuating the lever and walk away.
> 
> ...


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## bassguitarman (Nov 29, 2005)

mas360 said:


> My toilet would automatically refill the tank once every hour or so. I figured the two years old flap valve must be replaced and so I did. Well, the new flap valve helped a lot, now, it would auto refill every two to three hours. That was great, but it meant the leak was still there.....the question is how to fix it where the valve is 100% closed and no leak exists?


This is going to make no sense, but here goes: My American Standard Cadet toilet was doing exactly what yours was, so I replaced the flapper valve with one from Ace Hardware. It was better, but still ghost flushing. I figured that an OEM flapper might be the solution, so I ordered one online and installed it. It seemed better, but the problem was still there.

I was very close to dismantling the whole thing and replacing the entire flapper/seal assembly when I decided to change out the fill value unit with a new one. Problem solved.

Like I said, it makes no sense, because the flapper/seal assembly holds the water in the tank - probably won't work for you, but it fixed mine.


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## mas360 (Nov 21, 2006)

Bassguitarman, 
It puzzles me, unless the leak is in the fill valve unit, which is completely isolated from the flapper....but this fill valve unit, if leaks, will leak into the floor, right? I found no water on floor. 

Pier, 
That showed there was something wrong with the collar where your flapper rested on? perhaps the seal between the flapper and that collar has been eaten away by water over time and even with the new flapper you still could not achieve 100% seal? the new flapper only fixed half of the leak, the other half was on the collar? 

That likely is the case with mine as well. Dang it, I sure hate having to empty that tank to put in the new overflow assembly.


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## Pier Pressure (Aug 30, 2009)

I looked at the plastic collar where the flapper rests. I even looked for crackes in it just short of doing a Dye Check test on it for grins. I could find nothing wrong with it. The lip of the collar looked good. 

Now there is a kit you can buy that you silicone a new lip on the collar and has an height adjusted flapper. 

On mine I found it was the area of the flapper closest to the over flow tube that was not seating right. It was so frustrating.


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## bassguitarman (Nov 29, 2005)

mas360 - I told you that it made no sense, it just worked for me. Two months now and no ghost flushes.


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## mas360 (Nov 21, 2006)

After I read your post, bassguitarman, I got home and looked at that fill valve unit you mentioned and I thought there was a logical explanation. The tube where the little plastic line goes in to put some water into the bowl while the tank is being filled is actually connected to the assembly where the flapper closes down on. It has a rubber gasket to seal water in the tank from leaking into the bowl. The culprit, I bet, is that rubber gasket becoming bristle over years (23) sitting under water. I reached down and felt it with my finger and it appeared to be rather brittle. 

I am going to disassemble the tank and replace it. I bet it is going to fix this annoying leak.


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## redfisher43 (Oct 7, 2005)

I may be too late, but...if the small refill tube is in the overflow tube with the end of the refill tube below the tank water level, with many ballcocks, siphoning of the tank water will transfer tank water into the bowl. Then the ballcock refills the tank. Answer is to make sure the end of the refill tube is above the tank water level.


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## mas360 (Nov 21, 2006)

redfisher43 said:


> I may be too late, but...if the small refill tube is in the overflow tube with the end of the refill tube below the tank water level, with many ballcocks, siphoning of the tank water will transfer tank water into the bowl. Then the ballcock refills the tank. Answer is to make sure the end of the refill tube is above the tank water level.


If I correctly understand, do you mean the little refill tube CONTINUOUSLY siphon off water from the tank into the bowl even AFTER the refill is complete? after a while water in the tank drops low enough to trigger a short refill? 
I have not yet done what Bassguitarman did, so, I am going to look at the refill tube tonight to confirm if it is below tank water level. Thanks.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Nov 4, 2011)

last resort get a whole new tank kit from home depot, its easy to install.


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## MNsurf (Oct 21, 2011)

Change the fill valve ($10) problem solved


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## mas360 (Nov 21, 2006)

I went ahead and replaced all parts inside the tank. It is good now. It would be nice to know which part leaked though.


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## MNsurf (Oct 21, 2011)

mas360 said:


> I went ahead and replaced all parts inside the tank. It is good now. It would be nice to know which part leaked though.


 Flapper and fill valve are really the only two components that can leak.


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## Kitchen Pass (Apr 4, 2011)

MNsurf said:


> Flapper and fill valve are really the only two components that can leak.


Not always.....

In most cases changing the flapper or the complete float assembly will work. However, some toilets that have been in use for a while may experience a failure to the flush valve. in particular the tank gasket. This can create a very slow leak that eventually lowers the water level enough to activate the fill valve/float. Depending on the flow rate it could triggger every hour, 2 hours, etc.

Isolating this issue is frustrating. By the time you realize this was the problem you have probably bought a new flapper and or fill valve/float assembly. The fix requires unbolting the tank from the lower toilet. Usually it is best to replace the entire flush valve, not to be mistaken with the float/fill mechanism. A foam rubber gasket compliments the assembly below to help correct this problem.


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## mas360 (Nov 21, 2006)

Kitchen Pass said:


> Not always.....
> 
> In most cases changing the flapper or the complete float assembly will work. However, some toilets that have been in use for a while may experience a failure to the flush valve. in particular the tank gasket. This can create a very slow leak that eventually lowers the water level enough to activate the fill valve/float. Depending on the flow rate it could triggger every hour, 2 hours, etc.
> 
> Isolating this issue is frustrating. By the time you realize this was the problem you have probably bought a new flapper and or fill valve/float assembly. The fix requires unbolting the tank from the lower toilet. Usually it is best to replace the entire flush valve, not to be mistaken with the float/fill mechanism. A foam rubber gasket compliments the assembly below to help correct this problem.


You are absolutely right about the flush valve. I wasted money on the flap valve only replacement. 
Since I already take the tank down, I figure it is worth it to go ahead and replace the fill valve as preventive maintenance. It costs an extra ten bucks but is worth it not having to once again taking the tank down to replace the failing fill valve only a year or two down the road.


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## fin&feather (Jun 24, 2008)

Any time we have a problem I purchase the universal flush kit. $12 100% fix every time.


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## fishingcacher (Mar 29, 2008)

fin&feather said:


> Any time we have a problem I purchase the universal flush kit. $12 100% fix every time.


X2

One trick I came up with for the kit was to leave the remove the slip ring on the long gray stem and just replace everything else. That way I do not have to empty the tank. (Remember to shut off the water first).


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## wakeupluis (Feb 16, 2006)

Are you sure it's the flap? I bet it's the fill valve leaking. Get a new universal fill valve i bet you're problem will go away.


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## agonzales1981 (Jun 12, 2008)

It was the flush valve but might as well do everything while you are there.


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## mas360 (Nov 21, 2006)

In my case it was the flush valve. The fill valve was replaced earlier and that did not make any difference. After I installed a new fill valve, no more leak. This was the first time I ever had to replace the flush valve.


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## jimk (May 28, 2004)

Don't know if this will help...but use wet vac to finish draining the tank.


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