# Need Argument Ammo



## Trout Laguna (Aug 31, 2007)

Our boat 18' Shallow sport was stolen. It had a Yamaha TRP with lots of Custom Aluminium from Tops N Towers and a custom console. Our insurance policy was for replacement cost. So, we have a check, but we owe the bank the remainder of the loan. I think we can get out of the old loan and into a beavertail withOUT additional Equity, I don't think that's the case with a new shallow sport.

I am ready to give up conventional coastal fishing altogether for flies only, however I am having trouble convincing the rest of my brothers that a boat well suited for fly fishing is just as well suited for conventional fishing.

Dilemna: New Beavertail Skiff - or - New Shallow Sport (tunnell hull)

I think the polabilty/fishability of the skiff more than outweighs the capacity advantages of the shallow sport.

Help me make my arguement, I have a fighting chance. Their only major objection is capacity. You can't take more than three on the skiff and you take four to six on the shallow sport. Most OFTEN, if we are fishing more than four, we have a guide, and we always have a guide with clients, so really you're arguing for one extra person.

Help me make this arguement!


----------



## ellisredfish (Jul 5, 2005)

First of all, who is paying for the boat? Secondly, how much time will you spend fly fishing? If you want to spend more time with all of your buddies go with the Shallow Sport. However, as you say, you want to spend more time fly fishing, I would go with what makes me happy and the type of fishing I would like to do and go with the skiff. Again, it is going to be your boat; it is your choice. Buying a boat is somewhat like choosing a wife. The girl may be buck-toothed and bow-legged but she is the one you love no matter what your friends think-and she stutters too.


----------



## BOCA PAILA (Feb 17, 2005)

*Beavertail / Majek*

I HAVE BOTH A BEAVERTAIL AND A MAJEK RFL. BOTH GREAT BOATS BUT I WILL HAVE TO SAY THE BEAVERTAIL IS TAKEN OUT THE MOST..... THE BEVERTAIL WAS USED IN THE I.F.A. SERIES AND WAS WONDERFUL.... NO FLY ROD...... JUST SPINNING REELS.... I AM LEAVING FOR BOCA PAILA ,MX ON SUNDAY FOR A WEEK OF FLY FISHING. CALL F.T.U. AND ASK FOR STEVE MANROSE, HE IS MANAGER.... 281-481-6838 HE HAS THE KEYS TO MY BEAVERTAIL / ASK HIM TO GIVE YOU A DEMO RIDE... YOU WON'T BE SORRY

JEROME


----------



## NW80 (Apr 26, 2006)

I've got a Beavertail also and love it!
As "Boca" puts it you don't have to fly fish only. However, I do.


----------



## davidb (May 10, 2006)

I would go with the Beavertail or a Gordon for Fly fishing especially for poling it is far better. You could wade fish four if you had to and weren't crossing big water with either.

Shallow sport runs shallower and does better as a party barge, but I think more than 2 or 3 people then two boats are better.


----------



## Bruce J (Jun 27, 2004)

I'm with the others on this one, but also run poling skiff (HPX-T). The advantages as I see them:

1. It can do everything in the bays that a bigger (Shallowsport) boat can do except carry loads of people and gear, but it does lots (below) the bigger boats can't do.

2. Being able to pole a boat and even (especially) into the wind let's you explore an amazing amount of water without running over it first. I never appreciated this huge advantage until I owned the boat.

3. Once you realize point 2 above, you may never get out of the boat to wade again. No more stingrays, mud, death wades, slogs back to the boat, etc.

4. Much easier to trailer, launch, and handle. No worries at all.

5. Much cheaper to run since you can use such a small, light motor. On my longest days I've only burned about 7 gallons.

6. Never been stuck on anything I couldn't push off quickly since the boat runs and floats in about the same amount of water and doesn't weigh much at all.

That's enough reasons for me!


----------



## Capt. Lowtide (Jun 30, 2004)

*poling skiff*

Bruce J says it all, I've been in his boat and agree fully.

I've owned and operated all types of "bay worthy" boats and so far I am most pleased with my Beavertail. Versatility is what my business is all about, whatever the client desires we can handle it- be it flies, topwaters or live bait while poling, drifting or anchored in the open bay, flats or surf. The boat can handle it all and keep up with my demanding fishing style better than any other design.

I've been in my boat so much over the last two weeks it feels strange to sit down without having my left hand on the steering knob and my right hand on the throttle. Out of the last twenty people on my boat, most commented on how dry and smooth riding the boat was and many have questioned when I would be ready to sell...one of the biggest compliments a boat owner can receive.

The only thing I would recommend would be to max out the recommended horsepower, you won't be sorry trust me.

Feel free to call me with any questions or concerns- Curtiss


----------



## Flaco (Mar 22, 2007)

I too own a Beavertail and love it. I agree with Capt. Lowtide on the power recommendation. While its not an airboat or a Redfish line, this thing will run very skinny, sometimes scary skinny. If you want to sight fish (fly or otherwise), a technical poling skiff is the way to go. I'm sure you will enjoy either boat. I think the biggest question you will have is do you prefer to wade or pole.


----------



## Trout Laguna (Aug 31, 2007)

Thanks Bruce J, that's the sort of input I need. Your comment about fish you haven't already run over is the type of meaningful comment that'll help me. 

Boca, may take you up on that demo ride, been trying to get the old man in one those so he can see the difference. 

Thank again for all your thoughts/comments


----------



## Stuart (May 21, 2004)

Another Beavertail owner here so I'm kind of biased. Beavertail has their tunnel version out now if you absolutely must have a tunnel. Kdumas on this board has the Beavertail tunnel and from what I gather he is happy with it so far the short time he has had it.


----------



## Trout Laguna (Aug 31, 2007)

Stuart, KDumas,

Do you have any idea how much water the tunnel beav can get up on plane in? I made Bruce J's point about not blowing over fish before you throw at them and it went over well, however, they countered with the argument that you can't up in the depth of water you can get up in with a TRP in a Shallow Sport, which in our experience is about a foot of water. I think the difference here is minimal at best but would like y'alls thoughts as well.


----------



## Stuart (May 21, 2004)

I don't have a clue what it will get up in. Maybe send kdumas a PM. I know he took delivery of his boat not long ago, so he may be still experimenting with it. I don't even really know what mine will get up in. 18" is no problem, but I haven't pushed it beyond that.


----------



## NW80 (Apr 26, 2006)

I've gotten mine up in 12 inches. And, it's not the tunnel version.


----------



## texn8 (Oct 7, 2004)

*New "used BeaverTail"*

Capt. Mark Sommerlot in Port Occonor has a Beavertail that's less than a month old that he wants to sell. You can find him on the web or thru Orvis Houston.


----------



## Bruce J (Jun 27, 2004)

Another nice point about a poling skiff is you don't have to get up in less than a foot of water because it's so easy to pole off the flat or into a ditch to jump up easily. Better for the flats and better for the fish.

I can jump my boat up straight in about 18" on hard sand and less in mud. But, it can be spun up in well under a foot with some practice (and if you're not over grass). If you're in a big boat like a shallow sport, you don't have much choice but to run well up onto the flat and then power off it (unless you can drift off downwind, which almost no one does). When you see how easy it is to pole a small skiff around, you may find as I did that the need to jump up in 6" is overrated.

Poling skiffs with tunnels and jack plates can do the shallowest straight jump ups, but jack plates also add weight and extra machinery and complications. You just have to decide which issues are the most important for you.


----------



## kdumas (Aug 19, 2005)

Beavertail w/ tunnel; I was worried that the tunnel would reduce polling draft, but if it does, I cant tell. After only 5 days of fishing and everything brand new, I haven't yet tried to push it to its FULL limit.

I have had the chance to run as shallow as I ever what to / estimate no engine-bog depth of 4 inches or less. (I didn't want to stop and check)

With two on board, getting up on plan, hard sand bottom, straight shot, 10 inches maybe less, no problem so far. I havent tried or had to try the spin up yet. The Etech 60 isn't broke-in (rings seated) yet, so I know I'm not getting 100% power yet. (I still have paint on the lower unit}

I had the chance to run my buddies Osprey tunnel this weekend which has more weight (2batteries, Trolling Motor, P-Poll) and could not tell any significant performance difference. We have not had them in a side-by-side performance comparison yet. {All though ~ Mine will out fish his every time!}

Everything that has been said about Beavertail is true. They seem to stand behind there product and are concerned with customer satisfaction. (even after the sale)

I have spent a unplanned night on the pond in a 21 Shallowsport (once) waiting for the tide to come back in and it wasn't that fun.

The key element is / said already, your choice ~ What work for you.


----------



## Trout Laguna (Aug 31, 2007)

Like your point Bruce J, 


But since we do a lot of fishing out of mansfield, poling to deep water isn't always an options, but it sounds like it'll get up in the same amount of water as the shallowsport anyway, so, another arrow for my quiver.


----------



## hand (Nov 1, 2006)

*beavertail*

I think that once you start sight fishing you will wonder what took you so long to come around. The people that have fished with me that have never sight fished are just blown away. There is nothing like casting, seeing the fish turn and eat!! OR NOT, REJECTION.

You can always get out and wade if your fishing partners insist. The skiff will get up shallow 10inches or so.

You can't go wrong with the beavertail. If you don't like it someone will buy it from you in a flash.


----------



## shallowgal (Jun 11, 2004)

Could you please PM me the serial # and description of your boat, as well as where it was stolen from, so we can keep an eye out for it? I really hate to hear that happened to you and that you might be leaving the Shallow Sport family, but we understand these things do happen.

I've actually had people contact me and try to get a new hull ID plate for a stolen boat before. I just don't understand people sometimes 

As far as the "Beavertail vs. SS" debate goes. I'm a little too biased to be of any help to you in that one. I recommend you contact Jim Dismore at Beavertail. He used to sell Shallow Sports and can maybe give you some good comparisons of the two. Of course, he'll probably be a little biased towards Beavertail too considering he'll be getting the commission, but he's a great guy so he'll probably shoot you straight.

Here's a breakdown of the stats of the B2 vs. the 18' classic SS

*STAT* *B2* VS. *SS 18-C*

L.O.A. 17'9" 18'5"
BEAM 73" 92"
WEIGHT 550lb 750 lb
GAS TANK 15 gal 43 gal
DRAFT 4"-6" 4"-6"

If I were an avid fly fisherman, fisherwoman, fisherperson...whatever, I would set my Shallow Sport up like the one in this picture: front casting platform (with net to catch my line), trolling motor (because I'm too lazy to pole or wade), **** dog (optional :wink: )


----------



## skinnyme (May 24, 2004)

I'm getting in on this conversation a little late, but I have a poling skiff and a Majek RFL. I gotta admit that if I had to choose between a poling skiff or the Majek, I'm keeping the majek. Poling skiffs are cool but they are a specialized tool IMO. The majek is bigger, faster, runs shallower, gets up shallower, can carry more people, ect. It can't be poled obviously but that's why they make wading boots. Poling skiffs totally kick butt when accessing skinny backwaters over muddy bottoms...its too shallow for trolling motors, drifting in tight quarters is not effective, and its too soft to wade.


----------



## Stuart (May 21, 2004)

Shallowgal, Shallow Sports are cool and I think my Beavertail is cool, but that's about where the comparison ends. Two totally different animals. The SS can do some things the BT can't do well and vice versa. When stalking fish in ultra shallow water, the nod would have to go to a technical poling skiff. Light, easy to pole and no hull slap. Btw, no offense, but I would have to see both boats on the scale to believe the SS hull only weighs 200 lbs more than the BT hull. Not saying it couldn't happen, but I'd have to see it myself.

Stu


----------



## skinnyme (May 24, 2004)

Hey shallowgal, SS needs to seriously consider looking into making a poling skiff. The market is only getting bigger her on the TX coast for such a boat. I keep hoping someone like SS, Tran, or majek will offer such a skiff. Around 17' long with a little more beam than the BT to compensate for a tunnel, around 550lbs or less, minimal hull slap and affordable.


----------



## Stuart (May 21, 2004)

skinnyme said:


> Hey shallowgal, SS needs to seriously consider looking into making a poling skiff. The market is only getting bigger her on the TX coast for such a boat. I keep hoping someone like SS, Tran, or majek will offer such a skiff. Around 17' long with a little more beam than the BT to compensate for a tunnel, around 550lbs or less, minimal hull slap and affordable.


Throw in a self-bailing deck too.


----------



## skinnyme (May 24, 2004)

Stuart said:


> Throw in a self-bailing deck too.


Absolutely!!!! Throwing muddy wading boots in a boat that drains to a bilge has never gotten me real excited.


----------



## Bruce J (Jun 27, 2004)

Hey, you don't need no stinkin' muddy wading boots if you've got a fine poling skiff! Keep the feets in the boat and pole over that nasty mud instead of wading through it. I carry wade boots with me just in case I get stuck somewhere, but otherwise they stay in the back hatch.

Re self-bailing decks, there are pros and cons. Have had both.


----------



## shallowgal (Jun 11, 2004)

We've actually been talking about designing a 16' skiff for about a year now. I feel like it will probably be in the works within the next year. That ought to be quite a task. 

As far as the weight goes, when we redesigned and reintroduced the 18' classic model a couple of years ago, Rex weighed it at a local grain siloh when the coast guard came to inspect it. I didn't see it for myself, but that's what he said it was. I'm sure that was with no fuel or accessories or anything like that.


----------



## skinnyme (May 24, 2004)

Bruce J said:


> Hey, you don't need no stinkin' muddy wading boots if you've got a fine poling skiff! Keep the feets in the boat and pole over that nasty mud instead of wading through it. I carry wade boots with me just in case I get stuck somewhere, but otherwise they stay in the back hatch.
> 
> Re self-bailing decks, there are pros and cons. Have had both.


When the wind is pumping, its time to wade. Boat control, fly line management, ect becomes to much of a hassle for me. Plus, when i know there are fish in the area wading makes me to slow down and completely work the area over with minimal spookings.


----------



## Bruce J (Jun 27, 2004)

I hear you, Skinny. I also wade some if I have three guys in the boat or someone who isn't comfortable/capable of really sight casting with a fly rod yet. But, it's down to a very small percentage of my time. On the windier days, I prefer to pole up to a lee shoreline and there's usually a couple hundred yards of reasonably fishable water before the wind gets a bit too much to manage.

I've also installed a PowerPole recently and this is a great tool, particularly on windier days. I can drift across the flat, stop anytime to hit pot holes, edges, etc. and then just drift on again. Very handy!


----------

