# Anyone have any experience with a Danielsson Reel ... ?



## Spec-Rig.006 (Nov 2, 2007)

Been a little hesitant to pull the trigger on that new Tibor Signature, almost did this afternoon actually but a buddy of mine in Norway shortstopped me with this link:http://danielsson-flyreels.se/en/flyreels/l5w-series/

Sort of "the finest at a working man's price" I'm told. Anyone have any experience using a Danielson L5W ... ? Primary target's going to be Redfish, Tripletail, Pompano and Trout. Specs look really good.

Thoughts?


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## karstopo (Jun 29, 2009)

I have absolutely no experience with them. I do remember seeing an 8wt reel shootout and they did well.

http://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs/flytalk/2013/01/great-fishing-gear-danielsson-fly-reels


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## Permit Rat (May 13, 2014)

This is just my opinion, but a Tibor is about the last reel you'll _need_ for the fishing you are most likely to be doing. None (repeat, NONE) of the species you mentioned, will take much drag at all, if any. I've caught a lot of over-slot reds and don't think one of them got me more than about 20 feet into my backing. A bull red is a different story, but they are no means speedsters and there are myriad other reels at a fraction of the price that will do that job very well.

Truth be told, I don't even like the Tibors for Florida flats fishing, but only because of their lack of backing capacity. Personally, I want a little more (per size of the spool) and the Pate reels (made by Tibor) give that. Is there enough backing? YES....but not being a rich man, I need my reels to be able to perform double duty when necessary. So I might take my bonefish/permit size reel offshore for mahi or blackfin tuna, etc. HERE is where that backing capacity comes into play. 1/8 inch of less backing (at the top of the spool), will translate into a 1/4 inch or more of reduced spool diameter, when 100+ yards of backing has been run off by a fish. That smaller diameter makes a reel much less efficient, in terms of regaining lost line. Just saying.

Other than that, they (Tibors) are a fine quality reel....just not worth the money IMO.


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## Permit Rat (May 13, 2014)

OK....finally was able to see a picture of your Danielsson reel. Can't help you there, because I've never heard of them, much less used one. It appears to be a LA (large arbor) reel, which for what you want to do, is OK.

The reel has good reviews, but where are these reviews coming from? Norway/Sweden is a very cold water environment and colder water has less salt in it. Corrosion is not near the problem there, as it is here in the tropics.

All salt water fly reels have two variables that cannot be seen with the naked eye. One is the quality of the aluminum used in construction. This is not often advertised, and if it is, I see the term, "aircraft aluminum," used. My question has always been, if there are different qualities of aircraft aluminum? 

The second "unknown," at least in a new reel with no scratches, is the thickness of the anodization on exposed surfaces. This varies with manufacturer as well. 

So I would stick with a reel for which you can get some personal experiences. You get what you pay for. If price is a consideration, there's always e-Bay.


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## Finn Maccumhail (Feb 16, 2009)

Permit Rat said:


> This is just my opinion, but a Tibor is about the last reel you'll _need_ for the fishing you are most likely to be doing. None (repeat, NONE) of the species you mentioned, will take much drag at all, if any. I've caught a lot of over-slot reds and don't think one of them got me more than about 20 feet into my backing. A bull red is a different story, but they are no means speedsters and there are myriad other reels at a fraction of the price that will do that job very well.
> 
> Truth be told, I don't even like the Tibors for Florida flats fishing, but only because of their lack of backing capacity. Personally, I want a little more (per size of the spool) and the Pate reels (made by Tibor) give that. Is there enough backing? YES....but not being a rich man, I need my reels to be able to perform double duty when necessary. So I might take my bonefish/permit size reel offshore for mahi or blackfin tuna, etc. HERE is where that backing capacity comes into play. 1/8 inch of less backing (at the top of the spool), will translate into a 1/4 inch or more of reduced spool diameter, when 100+ yards of backing has been run off by a fish. That smaller diameter makes a reel much less efficient, in terms of regaining lost line. Just saying.
> 
> Other than that, they (Tibors) are a fine quality reel....just not worth the money IMO.


To each his own but I'm a huge fan of the Tibor reels. Although I very much prefer the old school style and not the Signature series. I have an Everglades, Riptide, and Gulfstream on my primary 8, 10, and 12wt rigs respectively. I'd like to find a Freestone in really good shape and I plan on getting a Pacific as well.

You just cannot beat the cork drag. Hell, I've got an old school Fin Nor Anti-Reverse with the cork drag (purchased by an uncle somewhere between 1969 and 1971) that's as smooth today as when it was brand new. I'm not really a fan of the sealed drag systems.

You're right that you don't necessarily need to pay that much but I'm also a proponent of the "buy once, cry once" mentality regarding gear and know that when my boys are old enough (they're not quite 6 & 2 respectively) they'll be using my Tibor reels too.


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## Worm Drowner (Sep 9, 2010)

I couldn't agree with Dan (Finn) more. I have an Everglades QC & a Gulfstream and I am certain that the will outlast me. 

Dan's also correct about the cork drags. I have a Bauer M4 Superlite that I've used for at least 10-12 years. The drag is as smooth as the first day I bought it.

I don't disagree with Permit Rat that most reds we catch won't take you far into your backing. I'd still like to have a good drag j.i.c. something a little more ambitious grabs my fly (e.g. Mr. Jack).

New or very close to new Tibors with their warranty cards can be found on EBay with a little patience. You can save several hundred dollars on a really great reel if you play your cards right.


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## OpenFLy (Aug 24, 2015)

I've got like QC Tibor Everglades I've been wanting to put on the market. Comes with case, box, warranty card, backing, fly line and the sticker.

Shoot me a PM if you want more info. You


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## karstopo (Jun 29, 2009)

http://midcurrent.com/gear/brake-jobs/

All this talk of drags got me looking for more information comparing the various types.

Having not put any gigantic reel burning fish on a reel, reds, specks, and associates being my usual fare, I'm a bit mystified by the start up inertia, the importance given to this. Now I fully understand that you want low start up inertia with strong speedy fish. No one wants to lose the fish right at the set. But what is wrong with having your drag very loose to begin with?

My experience is that with just about any fish, you aren't on the reel to begin with. You cast, you strip, once, twice, whatever, the line is at your feet., in a basket or in the water. Fish eats. Fish takes off, you feed line through fingers or not, fish gets on reel. You adjust reel to match the fish's power and speed.

I've had two jacks on a reel, one confirmed, one probable. The confirmed one took a baitfish fly in the surf and blasted off in the opposite direction. I clamped down on the line like I typically do and immediately snapped the tippet. The second fish I got on the reel and just kept tightening the drag to try to slow the fish. It didn't really work, but the hook pulled out after a couple of minutes.

I get the need to dissipate heat battling pelagic speedsters. But when you are targeting them, do you have your drag already pretty tight and if so, why?


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## Finn Maccumhail (Feb 16, 2009)

Yeah, you start of with the drag relatively tight because if you don't you'll get spooled in short order.


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## Permit Rat (May 13, 2014)

Finn Maccumhail said:


> Yeah, you start of with the drag relatively tight because if you don't you'll get spooled in short order.


For anti-reverse reels, that might be true. You need a tight drag, so you are not reeling against it all the time. This is also where people get into trouble when fishing for the mackerel and tuna species. Because there IS this thing called "start-up inertia," and in many reels, if you add that to an already tighter drag, it could be enough to pop the tippet.

In fact, we direct drive users, when fishing for king mackerel or wahoo especially, will set our drags _as light as possible_. Use just enough drag to keep the reel out of free spool, such that it doesn't overrun, causing a backlash on the spool. Then when the line is cleared and things are under control, more pressure can be added via several different techniques.

I have never used an AR reel. For tarpon and 15 lb. tippet, we set our drags at 4 lbs. and forget it. Added pressure is applied via a number of different techniques that are collectively known as "palming." The classic method was to hold the rod high over your head in the air and somehow bring your right hand up and allow the turning spool to rub against it, creating extra pressure. Exposed rim spools were developed to facillitate this action. The problem with it, is that the angler is often in an awkward position and it is difficult to maintain a near perfectly constant pressure. The rod tip often bounces around to show this is happening.

All users of direct drive reels, develop their own techniques for applying this extra pressure. I actually hold the back side of the reel in my hand and roll my thump up over the frame, onto the spool. It is very precise and you won't see my rod tip bouncing all over the place. A steady rod tip means constant pressure.

You can also minimize the effects of start-up inertia, by not having your rod pointed at the fish. If the rod has to bend first, then pressure on the reel will develop more slowly, even though it is only about a second in time, it's much better that the literally "instant" pressure on the drag and that's where the start-up inertia is at its worst.

The STH Caribe (Caribbean) series of reels, supposidly have eliminated almost all start-up inertia.....at least that's what they touted, back in the late 80's, when the reel was introduced. Some guides did some tests and they in fact did eliminate most of it. Odd, because the drag is a simple bushing around a huge cork drag disc. Personally, I believe it is the huge discs of the older style reels that does the best job. I have absolutely no faith in these tiny little sealed drags. But that's a different topic...a moot point even, in Texas waters, what with the species we commonly fish for here. If you go to the web page that karstopo gave, you'll see the diameter of the cork disc on Orvis' reel. Personally, I think they have the right idea, although I'd like to see a wider band of cork, just so there is more material and it can support itself better. That narrow little band of cork, might be more prone to tearing.....but I don't know.


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## karstopo (Jun 29, 2009)

Good answers. So being that king mackerel are readily available at times here in our local nearshore waters ( something on my list to go after and perhaps on the op list too) take me through what to expect from the point I make my cast to the take to the fight. One thing I'm not clear about is I've made my cast, the baitfish fly is sinking on some sinking or intermediate line, and at some point I'm stripping in the fly like crazy to get the eat. I get the eat, then what? I have 20-50+ feet of line at my feet ready to fly off the deck. What am I doing with my dominate (rod) hand? If I put any pressure on the accelerating line, I liable to get a nasty rope burn and busted tippet. If I don't put any pressure, it seems like there will be some major shock hitting the reel when the fish quickly gets on it. How do handle the point when the fish takes the fly until the line gets on the reel?


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## Permit Rat (May 13, 2014)

I'm going to need a lot more information regarding the king fishery down here, before I could possibly help you much.....and I might not be able to at that, if it differs too much from what we have in the Keys. But you already got your king to eat the fly, soooo.....
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For example, do the kings skyrocket in Texas waters? Has anyone had a king skyrocket on a surface plug? They do offshore of the Keys, but it seems not so much in the Gulf....that's why I asked. Nonetheless, kings DO skyrocket and for that reason, I advise against pointing your rod anywhere near at the fly, like we do with all other species. I know of at least 2 people who have been hit by skyrocketing kings and I heard that one guy died from his injury. Evidentally, the fish ruptured his spleen and he bled out before they could get him to a hospital. Another guy (in the Keys, BTW) just had a serious laceration on his gut and he survived. So if you're pointing your rod tip at the fly when retrieving, you're putting yourself directly in the path of a skyrocketing kingfish.
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Don't worry about getting a good hookset. The fish will already be going pretty fast when he takes, and if the fly is in his mouth, the drag of the fly line will keep it there. Soon after he feels that drag is when the fish hits high gear. Again, don't point the rod at the fish. The closer you can be to 90 degrees is best. Fifty feet of fly line will clear in about 2 seconds....literally. Don't attempt any drag or additional pressure with your line hand. This will just cause the line to jump around the deck, increasing the chances it might catch on something. Some guys form a ring with their thumb and index finger and let the line pay through that. What you're looking to avoid, is the line wrapping around the rod blank, between the reel and the first guide, when that final loop jumps off the deck toward the rod/reel. If that happens, it's all over.
ã€€
When the line slaps tight to the reel, the rod (at 90 degrees) will bend, absorbing the shock and chances are your very light pre-set drag will begin to turn. NOW you can bring the rodtip down and apply external pressure and fight the fish.
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If you're using a direct drive reel, you don't need to change drag settings, because pressure is always applied externally. And even with that light drag, when you turn the handle, you gain line...period. Fish runs...you let go of the handle......much more positive and faster than waiting for a tighter drag to slip, if using an AR reel.

Anyway, that's how I do it. (right or wrong, lol) Maybe some others have different experiences.


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## Finn Maccumhail (Feb 16, 2009)

karstopo said:


> Good answers. So being that king mackerel are readily available at times here in our local nearshore waters ( something on my list to go after and perhaps on the op list too) take me through what to expect from the point I make my cast to the take to the fight. One thing I'm not clear about is I've made my cast, the baitfish fly is sinking on some sinking or intermediate line, and at some point I'm stripping in the fly like crazy to get the eat. I get the eat, then what? I have 20-50+ feet of line at my feet ready to fly off the deck. What am I doing with my dominate (rod) hand? If I put any pressure on the accelerating line, I liable to get a nasty rope burn and busted tippet. If I don't put any pressure, it seems like there will be some major shock hitting the reel when the fish quickly gets on it. How do handle the point when the fish takes the fly until the line gets on the reel?


You get the "rope burn" as you clear the line.

And I guess I have a different perspective from Permit Rat- sure, you don't have the drag super tight when going for big fish but tight enough. He said 4# but a lot of hardcore tarpon guys use scales and set their drag to 5# of drag.

That shock you're talking about is part of why the low- to zero-startup inertia on the drag is important. It prevents the busted tippet.

Here's a nice little story on it with tarpon from my guide who I've become friends with, Preston Sutter, in a piece he wrote last year for _The Drake:_

http://www.drakemag.com/back-issues/2015/spring/1385-the-tarpon-bite.html



> â€œTHIS IS GONNA HAPPEN FAST, OKAY?â€ I say to my angler, whose lips have curled into a half-smile. â€œThe line is gonna burn your hand if you do it right.â€ He continues to search my face as I explain the violent hook-set, looking at me as if heâ€™s just been made accessory to a crime. I rock back against the poling platform and drain my coffee, sweat already tacking my shirt to my back.
> The tarpon bite is why I guide. Not because â€œI get to work outside,â€ and not because â€œI love all saltwater fish equally,â€ and certainly not for the financial stability that guiding provides. Iâ€™m not there for the pull, or the jumps, or the moment I get to grab a fishâ€™s face. Iâ€™m there for the eat.
> My below-average looks made me a poor candidate for Hollywood, and a trust fund isnâ€™t in the cards, so hiring a guide for 120 days a year was out of the question. The only way for me to get front row access to the greatest split-second in flyfishing was to be on the pushpole, helping others get close enough to take their shot.
> Many first-time experiences shape us throughout our livesâ€" the first kiss, the first hangover, the first time seeing Tombstone. For anglers who have never watched a tarpon garbage-can a fly, it can be a life-altering experience. As my guiding career advances, an increasing number of return clients means I meet fewer first-timers each year. This past season I only had twoâ€"a pair of slow-moving, mop-headed sons of an existing client. They had no idea what theyâ€™d signed up for.
> ...


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## Permit Rat (May 13, 2014)

Finn Maccumhail said:


> You get the "rope burn" as you clear the line.
> 
> And I guess I have a different perspective from Permit Rat- sure, you don't have the drag super tight when going for big fish but tight enough. He said 4# but *a lot of hardcore tarpon guys use scales and set their drag to 5# of drag.*


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think most tarpon guides and fly fishers are now using 20 lb. tippet. "4 lbs." was in reference to 15 lb. tippet. Doesn't matter....we all use very light drags when using direct drive reels.


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

Permit Rat said:


> ....For example, do the kings skyrocket in Texas waters? Has anyone had a king skyrocket on a surface plug? ....


Yes, and yes.

I've had them head over tail estimated 20 ft high...but that may be overstated. They definitely will jump and are most likely to do so when hitting a surface trolled lure or live bait on the surface. I've seen them free jump also many times, but not as common.

The key when the king hits a fly is very similar to when a bonefish hits a fly...line management. Its absolutely critical and those first seconds often determine your fate. I'm not concerned about whether the rod is pointing 90 deg or 75 deg or whatever, not in the least. My only focus for that first two or three seconds is line management...nothing else matters. In the time it takes one to decide how to point the rod, the fish will be lost if line management is not the foremost concern and focus.

Personally, I don't like setting tight drags on most pelagic fish. I much rather prefer palming and managing the drag myself. The only exception to that in my experience has been fishing for GT's. They are so fast, so strong that if you don't have a very tight drag they will break you off on a reef before you can slow them...probably will anyway.


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## Finn Maccumhail (Feb 16, 2009)

Permit Rat said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think most tarpon guides and fly fishers are now using 20 lb. tippet. "4 lbs." was in reference to 15 lb. tippet. Doesn't matter....we all use very light drags when using direct drive reels.


I think it varies. But we're pretty much in agreement on the larger philosophy.

Some tarpon guides, especially in the Panhandle will use straight 50#. The Gold Cup is 16# class but I think the Golden Fly allows 20#. Not sure about the Hawley. Evidently the IFGA allows up to 20#.

But I fished with 2 guides in the Keys last year who were adamant about using 16# or 20#. I had 30# class and they cut it off and insisted on using no higher than 20# and explained to me why as they tied up new leaders.

Suffice to say that I'm a convert.

I've been practicing the hell out of my knots recently to build my tarpon leaders. I can tie a good Slim Beauty but a good Improved Blood Knot or Bimini has thus far eluded me.


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

Finn Maccumhail said:


> ...
> Here's a nice little story ...
> 
> That's a cool story. I can relate, especially to the shortstop analogy. Been there and done that.
> ...


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## Finn Maccumhail (Feb 16, 2009)

Meadowlark said:


> Finn Maccumhail said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...


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## Spec-Rig.006 (Nov 2, 2007)

School's in ... appreciate all the responses ... !


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## Permit Rat (May 13, 2014)

Meadowlark said:


> I'm not concerned about whether the rod is pointing *90 deg or 75 deg or whatever*, not in the least. My only focus for that first two or three seconds is line management...nothing else matters. In the time it takes one to decide how to point the rod, the fish will be lost if line management is not the foremost concern and focus.


Sorry about that....that was the "guide" in me and sometimes I had to exaggerate to my clients, just to get any of the desired effect necessary, out on the water. However, I do feel that with kingfish (and _probably_ wahoo as well....dunno, never caught one on fly) that it is paramount not to have your rod pointed anywhere near the fly or the fish, when clearing line....or really at any time during the fight. They have instant acceleration and can turn on a dime. Giving the rod a chance to bend and absorb at least some of that shock of the start-up inertia in the reel, can also spell the difference between success and failure. However, like I said before, that's just my thing and I certainly have respect for Meadowlark's (and anyone else's for that matter) experiences as well. Yes, line management is of the utmost importance with these fish.....didn't mean to make it like I was ignoring that aspect.


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

Permit Rat said:


> .......didn't mean to make it like I was ignoring that aspect.


I didn't take it that way at all, Rat. I tend to overstate things that have caused me problems :bounce: and heartaches  and line management is one of those to me. I'm probably fanatical about it....but lost fish will do that:headknock. I appreciate your emphasis on rod management and certainly will try to be better at that.

Things happen incredibly fast immediately after the "take" with pelagic fish, as you well know, and if a person hasn't dealt with it before, they really can't imagine how fast a king...or a bone...or a Tarpon...or even dorado can wreck havoc almost instantly on the unsuspecting angler who isn't focused on that line.

I've lost more fish than I can remember from various things after the "take" but the most heartbreaking, frustrating thing to me is loosing one to poor line management. That is all on the angler...and after spending lots of time and money to get to that instant where the "take" happens, to blow it all on poor line management is really bad. At least with a fish you loose at the boat or during the fight, you have had the opportunity to be in the game, but poor line management takes you out of the game before it even starts.

Speaking of wahoo, that would be an absolute hoot to catch one on the fly. I'm thinking that the Baja might be a place one could that. The Wahoo come in pretty close there and are numerous at times. I've never seen anyone try for them on the fly, always trolling. Seems like the "bait and switch" technique we use on Roosters and Marlin wouldn't work on a Wahoo. But wondering what would work?


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## Permit Rat (May 13, 2014)

Meadowlark said:


> Speaking of wahoo, that would be an absolute hoot to catch one on the fly. I'm thinking that the Baja might be a place one could that. The Wahoo come in pretty close there and are numerous at times. I've never seen anyone try for them on the fly, always trolling. Seems like the "bait and switch" technique we use on Roosters and Marlin wouldn't work on a Wahoo. But wondering what would work?


OK Meadowlark....Now you got me going. I just went and opened the envelope containing my most recent (2012) book of world records from the IGFA. I want you to know....I wouldn't do that for just anybody!:smile:

ANYWAY.....at one time, Stu Apte owned all the WRs for wahoo on fly and he caught them off Isla Coiba, Panama, I guess fishing out of Tropic Star. I THINK they all came from the same trip, so can't say if his angling situation was a recurring condition, or just a fluke that year (1975....he still has the 6 lb. tippet record) But he was fishing wahoo that were under pieces of flotsam, notably whole trees that were floating offshore. The fish was/were caught mid-October and I believe that Sept. and Oct. were the best months to see this flotsam, as most of it was washed out of the rivers during the rainy season.

I also don't know if they actually saw the wahoo on the surface, like one would see dorado/mahi under floating stuff....OR if he was casting out a Hi-D line and letting it sink as deep as possible, trying for the wahoo that often lurk under pieces of flotsam, like they do everywhere, including the US.

Today, the records are scattered all over the globe. There are 2 from the Baja (one caught by Ed Rice....I know him from San Francisco and Fishing International!) So there is no clear choice as to one best destination.

No, I don't think teasing would be effective, except in allowing the wahoo to eat the teaser! LOL But chumming would be. I think that to have a couple or 5 cases of well salted frozen pilchards flown in, might be the ticket. BTW, this would also be deadly, thrown up against the rocks for roosters. It's already been done in Costa Rica, decades ago. *

*


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## Ish (Oct 30, 2008)

i'm a little late to this (and don't mean to derail the topic this has morphed into) but to answer the original question, dannis are awesome reels.

i've got 4 of them and love them.

the only downside to them is a consequence of their light weight... you need to be extra careful not to drop them or you can bend/dent the spool. they are light weight because there isn't as much material there as compared to others.

if you are looking for a lightweight, large arbor reel and understand that you don't need a drag that will stop a truck, it's hard to beat these.


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