# Range with a sled



## calphil (Jan 17, 2011)

Need to finish dialing in my 308 and want to finish in a sled .. Current groups are about 1.5" 5 shot 

I know the gun can shoot better than me .. It's a rem 700 light tactical 20" barrel 1/12 twist 

Shooting 168 Hornady 168 gr. 

I'm in kingwood


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## jetbuilt (May 4, 2010)

That rifle has the potential to be a 1/2MOA rifle, sub 1MOA is par for the course. What optics setup are you running? What mount? My center fire rifles are all zeroed at 200 yards, but I'm guessing you're shooting at 100 yards? Are you shooting 3 shot groups and then making zero adjustments? Or are you adjusting zero after each shot? How many rounds have you sent downrange "dialing" it in? Have you tried any other ammo? I can't help you with the range/sled. . .but I suggest you find a few different boxes of ammo and shooting for groups without making any adjustments whatsoever to your zero.


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## Big Guns 1971 (Nov 7, 2013)

jetcycles said:


> That rifle has the potential to be a 1/2MOA rifle, sub 1MOA is par for the course. What optics setup are you running? What mount? My center fire rifles are all zeroed at 200 yards, but I'm guessing you're shooting at 100 yards? Are you shooting 3 shot groups and then making zero adjustments? Or are you adjusting zero after each shot? How many rounds have you sent downrange "dialing" it in? Have you tried any other ammo? I can't help you with the range/sled. . .but I suggest you find a few different boxes of ammo and shooting for groups without making any adjustments whatsoever to your zero.


What range do you use that has 200 yards?


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## andre3k (Dec 3, 2012)

Ok im lost. What exactly is the OP asking about?


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

andre3k said:


> Ok im lost. What exactly is the OP asking about?


A sled is basically a vise that holds the gun while it is shot. Takes out almost all shooter error to be able to focus on the performance of the rifle only.

I will add that if a sled is required to get the rifle less than 1 1/2" group, then there is probably a trigger issue, maybe a very poor table. Sand bags are normally all that is needed for the rifle to show its colors, might not be the BEST it can do, but it will be darn good. Bad trigger or even a shaky table can cause bad performance out of a rifle that otherwise should shoot better.


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## Ernest (May 21, 2004)

Go to American Shooting Center at Westheimer & Hwy 6. Use the good concrete tables at the 200 or 300 yard line. They have sand bags too. Shooting from a sled over a wobbly table is a waste of time. 

If you don't have a concrete table at your local range, use sand bags on the ground and get prone. Not a bipod, but sand bags on the ground.


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## andre3k (Dec 3, 2012)

ok gotcha. So whats the advantage of a sled versus a decent rest and a rear bag? Or are they about the same as far as providing a steady platform for the rifle.


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## jetbuilt (May 4, 2010)

Big Guns 1971 said:


> What range do you use that has 200 yards?


Not sure if you're serious as there are several ranges in the greater Houston area with 200+ yard ranges. . .but I shoot most often at Clear Creek Gun Range due to it's close proximity to my house, and I shoot at American Shooting Center if I want to play out to 600 yards. Most of my time behind a rifle is spent on private land shooting steel silhouettes between 400 and 1000 yards. Would you like to go shoot sometime? I'm not a rifleman by any means, but I do enjoy playing around at distances beyond the 400 yard mark. . .



andre3k said:


> Ok im lost. What exactly is the OP asking about?


I'm unsure what the sled has to do with it, but he wants a rifle rest to shoot from as it seems as if he believes it will help him get his zero "dialed in". A bipod and a rear bag, or front and rear bags, should provide better results as the shooter still has to "drive" the rifle once it's out of the sled. Shooter input often has far more to do with accuracy than the equipment, in my humble opinion.



HydraSports said:


> I will add that if a sled is required to get the rifle less than 1 1/2" group, then there is probably a trigger issue, maybe a very poor table. Sand bags are normally all that is needed for the rifle to show its colors, might not be the BEST it can do, but it will be darn good. Bad trigger or even a shaky table can cause bad performance out of a rifle that otherwise should shoot better.


While not impossible, it is highly improbable (in my experience) that the trigger on that $1000 rifle is the cause of accuracy issues. Even when shooting from the basic rests provided at most public shooting facilities, the rifle should shoot MOA or better. We don't know what optics are on the rifle, what mounts were utilized, nor how that equipment was attached to the rifle, what torque was used, if any hardware is loose, etc. We don't know round count down the tube, but I'd imagine that .308 has plenty of life left in the barrel and probably has less than 100 rounds through it. There are presently too many variables to make an accurate guess as to why the rifle is shooting 1.5MOA.


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## jetbuilt (May 4, 2010)

andre3k said:


> ok gotcha. So whats the advantage of a sled versus a decent rest and a rear bag? Or are they about the same as far as providing a steady platform for the rifle.


The only advantage that I can see is recoil reduction, but we're talking about a .308 which isn't a heavy recoiling rifle, unless the shooter is recoil sensitive. Accuracy won't be improved in real world conditions by setting zero in a lead sled as the person responsible for pulling the trigger won't be shooting from a lead sled in the field. Rifles are _typically_ only as accurate as the shooter operating them. . .


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## artys_only (Mar 29, 2005)

*Sleds*

I know guys that use them but for me it only matters what I can do with the gun . Bags and a rear bag the gun should be capable of MOA with factory loads . if you are not moa at 100 you will not be at 200 and so on .

I shoot the same gun with a timmney trigger that 1.5 pounds and it a consistent 5/8-1/2 Moa gun at 100 and will hold under 4.5 inch groups at 600 yards . I hand load.

try some federal Match grade ammo either 168 or 175 match kings . I have not see to many 308 that would not shoot decent with them .

good luck .

Shoot straight and Shoot Far !:texasflag


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

While not impossible said:


> Some/most of the X Mark Pro triggers are absolute junk. I have a Sendero ($1200) that had one, now has a Jewell. Shoots MUCH better. It won't solve all of the problem, but those triggers are the worst thing about any Remington rifle right now. Well, IMO, that and their barrel twists are typically on the edge of being too slow for most heavier/higher BC bullets.


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## jetbuilt (May 4, 2010)

HydraSports said:


> Some/most of the X Mark Pro triggers are absolute junk. I have a Sendero ($1200) that had one, now has a Jewell. Shoots MUCH better. It won't solve all of the problem, but those triggers are the worst thing about any Remington rifle right now. Well, IMO, that and their barrel twists are typically on the edge of being too slow for most heavier/higher BC bullets.


I didn't intend to imply that the X Mark Pro was a good trigger, and when compared to a Jewell, it probably does feel like junk. That trigger is somewhat adjustable (depending on age, another factor that we don't know) and should break at repeatable pressure even in the presence of creep/grit/overtravel. The average American consumer buys a price point rifle, and many of those average consumers still manage to shoot MOA or less using off the shelf ammo and box stock rifles with price point optics. I'd be willing to bet an aftermarket trigger of your choosing (or mine) that the trigger is not the only problem leading to 1.5MOA performance. The rifle, when properly set up and load (even factory loads) identified, should shoot sub MOA without much effort.


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

jetcycles said:


> I'd be willing to bet an aftermarket trigger of your choosing (or mine) that the trigger is not the only problem leading to 1.5MOA performance. The rifle, when properly set up and load (even factory loads) identified, should shoot sub MOA without much effort.


 You aren't getting my money with that bet. I agree. I guess I was just searching for a reason why a good rifle with decent factory ammo would not shoot any better than 1 1/2". I don't know the shooter, so don't want to make any insinuation about that part of the equation.


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## DIHLON (Nov 15, 2009)

Just a FYI, my point of impact shifted an inch low, and an inch to the left at only 100 yards when I tried using a lead sled.


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## calphil (Jan 17, 2011)

The rifle has had about 150 down the tube shooting a zeiss 4.5x14-50 conquest ...
I tried the Barnes bullets personally but the rifle didn't like them as that is what the 1.5" came from 
I bought it from a guy that was getting .5" all day long with match grade -shelve ammo (no reloads) 

Zeiss sits in leupold bases and ring 

Trigger is a factory x-Mark that has been re-worked and breaks clean at 3.5lbs (yeah I want a timney, but can't afford) 

I have since changed ammo to Hornady Match a-max 168 and just haven't had the chance to go shoot again 

I know the gun can shoot better than I can and


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## calphil (Jan 17, 2011)

And that was the first time ever with the rifle..

Shot at carters country on a busy day so kept getting distracted by others shooting and the benchs they have there just aren't comfortable to me .. 

I am a decent shot and can prove it just need more time with gun 

Guess I'll just go to Thunder in the morning before work 

Just need to do it so I can go shoot a red deer hind this weekend .. 6.8 spc is too small lol and I sold my 30-06


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## calphil (Jan 17, 2011)

Actually gonna do shooters station - will report back after shooting


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## jetbuilt (May 4, 2010)

calphil said:


> I bought it from a guy that was getting .5" all day long with match grade -shelve ammo (no reloads)
> 
> Zeiss sits in leupold bases and ring
> 
> ...


It sounds as if the rifle is well sorted, but it wouldn't hurt you to do a quick inspection of your mounting hardware just to rule that out as a possibility. I use a touch of blue Loctite on my bases/rings to keep things from working loose. If I were you, I'd figure out whatever off the shelf load the previous owner was running and stock up, 1/2 MOA is very respectable for a factory rifle. Let us know how the 168 A-Max's work out, my Savage 10FCP-HS loves them!


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## calphil (Jan 17, 2011)

Bases are loctite - it's a one piece base 

I'm thinking I just need more range time 

With my old rem700 adl 30/06 (basically a base model) no work done I could shoot about .8-.9


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## calphil (Jan 17, 2011)

He was shooting Federal 168 Sierra match 

I was just wanting to use what I was used too for a hunting round that I know works and the barnes is what the 30/06 shot so I tried those but no work 

He shot the hornady so I'm switching to the Amax he **** the match BTHP said they grouped identical to federals so hopefully these work


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## muney pit (Mar 24, 2014)

I use a lead sled for working up loads. It does help. Its not something to use all the time but like every tool, it has its purpose.


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## Sgrem (Oct 5, 2005)

Any 308 shooting a softball sized group or any 6.8 doing the same will take any red deer hind. 

We all want to dial in the very best for our equipment but you are over thinking it for that hunt my friend. Groups don't kill animals tissue damage does.


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## calphil (Jan 17, 2011)

6.8spc bolt gun rem700p








308 lt tactical rem700

It eats up hornady 168 Amax match grade


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## calphil (Jan 17, 2011)

3 shot group at 100

I'd say it's a 1/2" gun


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## jetbuilt (May 4, 2010)

Glad sorting out your issue was as easy as changing ammo


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## Medic2011 (Dec 13, 2012)

I have the remington 700sps tactical, in .308. Has the bull barrel. Not sure if this is the same gun you're referring you have? Most accurate academy buy iv ever had. I found it loves the 175gr bthp Remington's premier. Might try something a touch heavier if youre still not getting tight groups. Sub 1/2" groups at 100, dropped blackbuck in February at 518 with it. Ive got a lot invested in the optics, imo that makes a HUGE difference.


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## calphil (Jan 17, 2011)

^ complete different gun .. Mine is the Lt Tatical


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