# Technical Poling Skiffs



## Captain Stansel

There has been a lot of threads lately regarding technical poling skiffs. Someone mentioned on the "Ankona Skiffs" thread that they used to have the shallow running shore burners and sold their boat and will never look back. After owning a couple of SS and Flats Cat I'm in the same position because I'm only focusing on fly fishing. For the last couple of years I've done extensive research on several models and finally narrowed my boat down. The following is my own personal assessment:

ECC: 

I agree with the other gentlemen who commented on them. I like their boats and a friend of mine has given me positive feedback on their Lostman, but he said his buying experience wasn't favorable based on the personalities he dealt with which is a shame because I really like their new 2014 Glide. I have some personal experience and I didn't get the warm and fuzzy which is an issue for me when you're talking about dropping that much coin on a skiff. I've also talked to two different guides (one in POC and the other in Port A) and based on their comments who have run those boats steered me away. I'm not a basher and I won't go there, this is just my assessment. I would of considered buying the Glide new, but again I want to have the warm and fuzzy as well as the confidence in a boat builder. 

New Water: 

Absolutely LOVE the shallow water capability of their boats. In my opinion the Curlew is the shallowest running out of all of them. You get the best of both worlds. Only negative for me is the wide beam and it's lack of performance poling with a stiff wind. It's a wide boat. The Stilt is probably their best model for my needs and I've fished off one in Port Mansfield and enjoyed the boat. I would seriously consider this boat, but I'm in the market for a used one. This is probably the best boat out their for my needs.

Beavertail:

Buddy had one and we fished the Redfish series tournament when we weren't using my Flats Cat. Wettest boat I've ever been in and the transom was cracking with in the first 3 months. They sent a guy down to fix it, but scared us to death. They said it wasn't structural and only cosmetic. Draft wasn't to my standards. That boat was sold just after a year of ownership for many reasons.

Dragonfly 17':

Very cool boat and for the price it's a bargain based on the fit and finish. Problem for me is draft. They advertise 5", but with full load and 2 guys that's not the case based on my experience. Plus there is nothing out there on the used market.

Mitzi:

Wet boat, but not as bad as the Beaver. I wasn't fond of the fit and finish and the draft doesn't work for me.

Maverick HPXT:

This is the only Maverick I've been on. I liked the boat, but its' very heavy for this type of skiff at over 1000 lbs. 

Hells Bay Glades:

I've been on most all the Hell's bay boats at one time or another and for my particular needs it's the 18' Glades. So I guess I've found my boat. The draft is just stupid insane. With a full load and two guys at 200 #'s a piece it drafts in less than 4" of water. They don't make this in a tunnel, but the boat I fished out of had an electric jack plate and it was set back. Ran in what it could float in. Would jump up in 6"-8" of water depending on bottom. I truly need this draft due to the fact that POC has so many back lakes. Redfish get stuck back there at low tide and many of the entrances are covered with oysters just a couple of inches below the surface. These are back lakes you only see from aerial maps. And usually only a 3' wide entrance that you never see unless 4' from shore. I know this boat isn't for most, but the fit and finish is second to none. They come with a price tag, but they perform. I also really like the guys at Hells Bay and they've been extremely helpful even knowing I'm not buying new. I've identified 2, one in TX and one in LA.

I hope this information helps any of you in the market and remember everybody's needs are different.


----------



## Backcast

Captain Stansel, thanks for posting.

Did you consider Harry Spears skiffs?

I own a Mitzi 15 tiller with 40 hp Yamaha and my opinion is that it is a dry boat. I have been looking online at http://spearflatsskiffs.com/

Joe


----------



## omgidk

have you check out microskiff.com?


----------



## redfish203

Captain Stansel said:


> There has been a lot of threads lately regarding technical poling skiffs. Someone mentioned on the "Ankona Skiffs" thread that they used to have the shallow running shore burners and sold their boat and will never look back. After owning a couple of SS and Flats Cat I'm in the same position because I'm only focusing on fly fishing. For the last couple of years I've done extensive research on several models and finally narrowed my boat down. The following is my own personal assessment:
> 
> ECC:
> 
> I agree with the other gentlemen who commented on them. I like their boats and a friend of mine has given me positive feedback on their Lostman, but he said his buying experience wasn't favorable based on the personalities he dealt with which is a shame because I really like their new 2014 Glide. I have some personal experience and I didn't get the warm and fuzzy which is an issue for me when you're talking about dropping that much coin on a skiff. I've also talked to two different guides (one in POC and the other in Port A) and based on their comments who have run those boats steered me away. I'm not a basher and I won't go there, this is just my assessment. I would of considered buying the Glide new, but again I want to have the warm and fuzzy as well as the confidence in a boat builder.
> 
> New Water:
> 
> Absolutely LOVE the shallow water capability of their boats. In my opinion the Curlew is the shallowest running out of all of them. You get the best of both worlds. Only negative for me is the wide beam and it's lack of performance poling with a stiff wind. It's a wide boat. The Stilt is probably their best model for my needs and I've fished off one in Port Mansfield and enjoyed the boat. I would seriously consider this boat, but I'm in the market for a used one. This is probably the best boat out their for my needs.
> 
> Beavertail:
> 
> Buddy had one and we fished the Redfish series tournament when we weren't using my Flats Cat. Wettest boat I've ever been in and the transom was cracking with in the first 3 months. They sent a guy down to fix it, but scared us to death. They said it wasn't structural and only cosmetic. Draft wasn't to my standards. That boat was sold just after a year of ownership for many reasons.
> 
> Dragonfly 17':
> 
> Very cool boat and for the price it's a bargain based on the fit and finish. Problem for me is draft. They advertise 5", but with full load and 2 guys that's not the case based on my experience. Plus there is nothing out there on the used market.
> 
> Mitzi:
> 
> Wet boat, but not as bad as the Beaver. I wasn't fond of the fit and finish and the draft doesn't work for me.
> 
> Maverick HPXT:
> 
> This is the only Maverick I've been on. I liked the boat, but its' very heavy for this type of skiff at over 1000 lbs.
> 
> Hells Bay Glades:
> 
> I've been on most all the Hell's bay boats at one time or another and for my particular needs it's the 18' Glades. So I guess I've found my boat. The draft is just stupid insane. With a full load and two guys at 200 #'s a piece it drafts in less than 4" of water. They don't make this in a tunnel, but the boat I fished out of had an electric jack plate and it was set back. Ran in what it could float in. Would jump up in 6"-8" of water depending on bottom. I truly need this draft due to the fact that POC has so many back lakes. Redfish get stuck back there at low tide and many of the entrances are covered with oysters just a couple of inches below the surface. These are back lakes you only see from aerial maps. And usually only a 3' wide entrance that you never see unless 4' from shore. I know this boat isn't for most, but the fit and finish is second to none. They come with a price tag, but they perform. I also really like the guys at Hells Bay and they've been extremely helpful even knowing I'm not buying new. I've identified 2, one in TX and one in L
> I hope this information helps any of you in the market and remember everybody's needs are different.


I have been poling boats for a long time and agree with you on many points. I run a Lostmen since 09 and for what I do, pole skinny with my 76 year old father, I have not found a better boat for shallow, poling and stable. I fish a lot out of a Curlew and it is a fantastic shallow water scooter...a poling boat it is not, although it can be done. I have never poled the Stilt but know some who give it a thumbs up. If you really want a TX poling skiff then Stiffy makes a great one. I have fished some HB boats and the Professional and Waterman are my favorites. The HPXT is a fine boat but a little tippy for my needs and not as shallow as Lostmen. The banshee extreme is a fairly shallow boat but very wide and not a joy to pole, same for ranger Phantom which is the same hull. ECC is a good company and maybe Kevin can seem a little excitable but he is passionate about his boats and they have made some great skiffs. HB is no longer the grail For those who know skiffs, that is why the older boats sell for such a premium.


----------



## Captain Stansel

Thanks for the input guys. I like the Lostman like I stated, I just don't care for dealing with those folks. Just the flavor they gave me. Plus I need a little bit better draft. I know thy perform and I do like the boats. I just need a little bit more extreme draft.

The Mitzi I was on was the 17' and that was the wet ride I experienced and like I mentioned the draft didn't work.

Never heard of Spears.

The Hell's Glades in the 2005-2006 is the boat for me. I've fished on one many times now and that's what I've narrowed it down to. I will have to do some alternate rigging with electric jack, set back, etc..... I'll keep you posted. Please know I'm extremely anal when it comes to this stuff.


----------



## ^Skiff^

I understand and respect that this is a matter of preference and each of us have our own opinions. Mine is the Hpx-t hands down, not sure where you're getting weight stats from but the boat itself only weighs 450 lbs, add around 250 lbs give or take a few depending on motor, true 5" draft with 3 on board and setup correctly will spin up easily in ankle deep h20 no matter what the bottom composition is, poles like a dream upwind or down, super silent, carbon kevlar=tough as nails and lightweight, wide beam and not tippy at all, 140 mile range with a 4 stroke... Imo, no better boat for the serious skinny water fly fisherman. There's a reason why these boats are hard to find used, I had to go to Fla to buy mine and it was from Bob Stearns, look him up, he had a thing or two to do with the invention of the poling skiff as we know it today and his boat of choice is the Maverick HPX-T.


----------



## Captain Stansel

^Skiff^ said:


> I understand and respect that this is a matter of preference and each of us have our own opinions. Mine is the Hpx-t hands down, not sure where you're getting weight stats from but the boat itself only weighs 450 lbs, add around 250 lbs give or take a few depending on motor, true 5" draft with 3 on board and setup correctly will spin up easily in ankle deep h20 no matter what the bottom composition is, poles like a dream upwind or down, super silent, carbon kevlar=tough as nails and lightweight, wide beam and not tippy at all, 140 mile range with a 4 stroke... Imo, no better boat for the serious skinny water fly fisherman. There's a reason why these boats are hard to find used, I had to go to Fla to buy mine and it was from Bob Stearns, look him up, he had a thing or two to do with the invention of the poling skiff as we know it today and his boat of choice is the Maverick HPX-T.


Where are you getting your weight info and what model? The only T I see that they make is the 17' and they show the boat weight w/ engine at 1115 #? The boat I was in seemed heavy and it wasn't over loaded. It was a true 6 1/2"-7" draft with two guys in the boat. I actually measured it with fish stick. This is off their website:
This boat is designed for anglers that run long distances, fish and have to â€œget up and runâ€ in extremely shallow water.
Unlike many competitive boats that are so-called â€œsuper shallowâ€ in part because they are underpowered, the 17 Mirage HPX Tunnel has the range and power to actually get you there, quickly and in comfort.
Fuel capacity 16 gal.
LOA 16' 09"
Maximum capacities 3 persons or 450 lbs
Maximum HP 70 Weight (approx. w/ engine) 1,115 lbs. w/ T60

(thanks for the info skiff)


----------



## ^Skiff^

Captain Stansel said:


> Where are you getting your weight info and what model? The only T I see that they make is the 17' and they show the boat weight w/ engine at 1115 #? The boat I was in seemed heavy and it wasn't over loaded. It was a true 6 1/2"-7" draft with two guys in the boat. I actually measured it with fish stick. This is off their website:
> This boat is designed for anglers that run long distances, fish and have to â€œget up and runâ€ in extremely shallow water.
> Unlike many competitive boats that are so-called â€œsuper shallowâ€ in part because they are underpowered, the 17 Mirage HPX Tunnel has the range and power to actually get you there, quickly and in comfort.
> Fuel capacity 16 gal.
> LOA 16' 09"
> Maximum capacities 3 persons or 450 lbs
> Maximum HP 70 Weight (approx. w/ engine) 1,115 lbs. w/ T60
> 
> (thanks for the info skiff)


That is confusing. Mines an 01 17 Mirage HPX-T with a 08 Merc 4 stroke. Mr. Stearns kept all the original paperwork that came with the boat and I was mistaken, it's listed at 425 lbs not 450.



















The stats you pulled off their website is different in just about every category from my paperwork, maybe a difference in year models?


----------



## MarkA70

Captain Stansel I do not know who you are, or who you think you are. I do take issue with your Beavertail assessment! Had you done a search on 2Cool you would have found many that will strongly disagree with you on Beavertails. Also, your NewWater hype is not what the skiff community in Rockport thinks about that brand. If all of your evaluations are based on a 'one boat' experience then they are truly just one man's experience, not a fair rating of an entire line of vessels. I think 'personal assessment' threads are out of place unless someone asks a specific question. You should bold and underline that these are your PERSONAL OPINIONS! and not facts.


----------



## Coconut Groves

I've fished out of many skiffs and have been around long enough to know that much is personal preference. It is difficult to be completely objective because there are so many factors at play.

In regards to the Beavertail quote, there is Beavertail from the past, and Beavertail now.

Beavertail as it is now is owned arguably the best owners in the industry. Will and Liz have the best personal touch with their current clients and potential clients. The boats are also top notch in fit, finish and design. I had seriously considered a Strike, then they came out with the Micro, which might just be my next boat. Liz got me a demo on the Strike down here in Texas and had great communication all along the way. People should not mistake new Beavertail with the old.

In regards to the previous Beavertails, they are also great boats. Stansel, the one you referred to was a complete lemon - I heard stories of that boat myself. However, I own a 2006 Beavertail B2 and absolutely love it. It poles in 6" with two anglers and handles chop as good as any similar boat. "Wet" can be caused by many factors - if I am out in 15 knot winds in the open bay with quartering waves, sure I get spray. Chop that down to 10 knots and I am dry. It turns on a dime, tracks great while poling, and it ultra stealthy. I can pole on top of fish without them hearing me.

All makers have put out a sub quality boat at some point in time - Hells Bay had a bad batch back in the mid 2000s, I've heard reports of a few ECCs going back several times. I had my Shoalwater back to the builder three times. What matters is that the owners take care of their customers, but I would not call a boat junk because of one bad apple, and we have to be fair to separate older Beavertail from the new. It's only fair to Will and Liz who are working their butts off to be one of the tops in the industry.

In regards to Newwater, the Stilt is an awesome boat. I have a friend who guides and he loves them. They are now putting the high thrust Suzuki 60hp 4 stroke on the back with great results. The Curlew is not your ideal poling boat - the beam is just too wide for it to be called a technical poling skiff. Steve, the owner of Newwater, is also a great guy who is passionate about his boats and doesn't bad mouth his competitors.

I will say though that 2cool isn't the ideal site to learn about technical poling skiffs. Head over to microskiff for that. You'll be amazed at how much info is on that site.


----------



## Captain Stansel

MarkA70 said:


> Captain Stansel I do not know who you are, or who you think you are. I do take issue with your Beavertail assessment! Had you done a search on 2Cool you would have found many that will strongly disagree with you on Beavertails. Also, your NewWater hype is not what the skiff community in Rockport thinks about that brand. If all of your evaluations are based on a 'one boat' experience then they are truly just one man's experience, not a fair rating of an entire line of vessels. I think 'personal assessment' threads are out of place unless someone asks a specific question. You should bold and underline that these are your PERSONAL OPINIONS! and not facts.


Everything I said was my own personal experience and didn't represent it any other way. Simply my opinion on what I've been exposed to. Simple food for thought. Performance wise and comparing apples to apples I would put a Stilt over the Beavertail any day based on the old mold prior to Hell's Bay suing Beavertail. It's my understanding they had to destroy all those molds and I have no experience since Beavertails present mold. I would consider evaluating the newer molds, but like I stated draft is extremely important to me and the best that suits my needs is the Glades Skiff.


----------



## southpaw

> aptain Stansel I do not know who you are, or who you think you are. I do take issue with your Beavertail assessment! Had you done a search on 2Cool you would have found many that will strongly disagree with you on Beavertails. Also, your NewWater hype is not what the skiff community in Rockport thinks about that brand. If all of your evaluations are based on a 'one boat' experience then they are truly just one man's experience, not a fair rating of an entire line of vessels. I think 'personal assessment' threads are out of place unless someone asks a specific question. You should bold and underline that these are your PERSONAL OPINIONS! and not facts.












When it comes to fishing gear, everything is personal preference. From boats down to what hooks you tie on. Sure there's some hard facts sprinkled in there, but what you say is a good boat is relative from person to person. For instance, lots of people call gheenoes and gladesmen tippy boats and won't run them bc of it. For someone like me in my mid twenties and 185lbs I think they're plenty stable. Don't take Stansel's assessment of any of those boats as gospel, it's just his input. If you're going to drop serious coin on a boat, go test drive it. Don't take some stranger's opinion from 2cool.


----------



## Backcast

has been a lot of threads lately regarding technical poling skiffs. Someone mentioned on the "Ankona Skiffs" thread that they used to have the shallow running shore burners and sold their boat and will never look back. After owning a couple of SS and Flats Cat I'm in the same position because I'm only focusing on fly fishing. For the last couple of years I've done extensive research on several models and finally narrowed my boat down. The following is my own personal assessment


I believe OP did state it was his personal assessment.

Joe


----------



## East Cape

Captain Stansel said:


> There has been a lot of threads lately regarding technical poling skiffs. Someone mentioned on the "Ankona Skiffs" thread that they used to have the shallow running shore burners and sold their boat and will never look back. After owning a couple of SS and Flats Cat I'm in the same position because I'm only focusing on fly fishing. For the last couple of years I've done extensive research on several models and finally narrowed my boat down. The following is my own personal assessment:
> 
> ECC:
> 
> I agree with the other gentlemen who commented on them. I like their boats and a friend of mine has given me positive feedback on their Lostman, but he said his buying experience wasn't favorable based on the personalities he dealt with which is a shame because I really like their new 2014 Glide. I have some personal experience and I didn't get the warm and fuzzy which is an issue for me when you're talking about dropping that much coin on a skiff. I've also talked to two different guides (one in POC and the other in Port A) and based on their comments who have run those boats steered me away. I'm not a basher and I won't go there, this is just my assessment. I would of considered buying the Glide new, but again I want to have the warm and fuzzy as well as the confidence in a boat builder.
> 
> New Water:
> 
> Absolutely LOVE the shallow water capability of their boats. In my opinion the Curlew is the shallowest running out of all of them. You get the best of both worlds. Only negative for me is the wide beam and it's lack of performance poling with a stiff wind. It's a wide boat. The Stilt is probably their best model for my needs and I've fished off one in Port Mansfield and enjoyed the boat. I would seriously consider this boat, but I'm in the market for a used one. This is probably the best boat out their for my needs.
> 
> Beavertail:
> 
> Buddy had one and we fished the Redfish series tournament when we weren't using my Flats Cat. Wettest boat I've ever been in and the transom was cracking with in the first 3 months. They sent a guy down to fix it, but scared us to death. They said it wasn't structural and only cosmetic. Draft wasn't to my standards. That boat was sold just after a year of ownership for many reasons.
> 
> Dragonfly 17':
> 
> Very cool boat and for the price it's a bargain based on the fit and finish. Problem for me is draft. They advertise 5", but with full load and 2 guys that's not the case based on my experience. Plus there is nothing out there on the used market.
> 
> Mitzi:
> 
> Wet boat, but not as bad as the Beaver. I wasn't fond of the fit and finish and the draft doesn't work for me.
> 
> Maverick HPXT:
> 
> This is the only Maverick I've been on. I liked the boat, but its' very heavy for this type of skiff at over 1000 lbs.
> 
> Hells Bay Glades:
> 
> I've been on most all the Hell's bay boats at one time or another and for my particular needs it's the 18' Glades. So I guess I've found my boat. The draft is just stupid insane. With a full load and two guys at 200 #'s a piece it drafts in less than 4" of water. They don't make this in a tunnel, but the boat I fished out of had an electric jack plate and it was set back. Ran in what it could float in. Would jump up in 6"-8" of water depending on bottom. I truly need this draft due to the fact that POC has so many back lakes. Redfish get stuck back there at low tide and many of the entrances are covered with oysters just a couple of inches below the surface. These are back lakes you only see from aerial maps. And usually only a 3' wide entrance that you never see unless 4' from shore. I know this boat isn't for most, but the fit and finish is second to none. They come with a price tag, but they perform. I also really like the guys at Hells Bay and they've been extremely helpful even knowing I'm not buying new. I've identified 2, one in TX and one in LA.
> 
> I hope this information helps any of you in the market and remember everybody's needs are different.


First I'd like to say I don't ck this forum often let alone this part of the forum so I'll make a point to do that more. Secondly I'd like to say Im truly sorry if i/we didn't give you any good vibes as I love what i do and my passion runs deep as this is all i have and naturally I/we want it to succeed. I'll also say we do ALOT of biz in TX and love your state and have many happy customers and continue to send boats there. Also the Glide is a great skiff and we now have them shipping to your area. We will continue to strive for the best and after 10yrs in biz and over 700 skiffs built I can always improve and learn something new. I'll take this info and make it into a good situation. I hope you find what your looking for and please know we take care of our customers and we truly build a GREAT product and take care of you long after the sale.
Good luck in your search/journey!
Kevin


----------



## Knotty Fly

Coconut Groves said:


> I've fished out of many skiffs and have been around long enough to know that much is personal preference. It is difficult to be completely objective because there are so many factors at play.
> 
> In regards to the Beavertail quote, there is Beavertail from the past, and Beavertail now.
> 
> Beavertail as it is now is owned arguably the best owners in the industry. Will and Liz have the best personal touch with their current clients and potential clients. The boats are also top notch in fit, finish and design. I had seriously considered a Strike, then they came out with the Micro, which might just be my next boat. Liz got me a demo on the Strike down here in Texas and had great communication all along the way. People should not mistake new Beavertail with the old.
> 
> In regards to the previous Beavertails, they are also great boats. Stansel, the one you referred to was a complete lemon - I heard stories of that boat myself. However, I own a 2006 Beavertail B2 and absolutely love it. It poles in 6" with two anglers and handles chop as good as any similar boat. "Wet" can be caused by many factors - if I am out in 15 knot winds in the open bay with quartering waves, sure I get spray. Chop that down to 10 knots and I am dry. It turns on a dime, tracks great while poling, and it ultra stealthy. I can pole on top of fish without them hearing me.
> 
> All makers have put out a sub quality boat at some point in time - Hells Bay had a bad batch back in the mid 2000s, I've heard reports of a few ECCs going back several times. I had my Shoalwater back to the builder three times. What matters is that the owners take care of their customers, but I would not call a boat junk because of one bad apple, and we have to be fair to separate older Beavertail from the new. It's only fair to Will and Liz who are working their butts off to be one of the tops in the industry.
> 
> In regards to Newwater, the Stilt is an awesome boat. I have a friend who guides and he loves them. They are now putting the high thrust Suzuki 60hp 4 stroke on the back with great results. The Curlew is not your ideal poling boat - the beam is just too wide for it to be called a technical poling skiff. Steve, the owner of Newwater, is also a great guy who is passionate about his boats and doesn't bad mouth his competitors.
> 
> I will say though that 2cool isn't the ideal site to learn about technical poling skiffs. Head over to microskiff for that. You'll be amazed at how much info is on that site.


Tim Clancey is the owner of Newwater boat works. Sounds like some of these guys skirts are blowing up on here. It's just like the trucks we drive, some like Toyota, Ford, Chevrolet, Dodge and so on. Go get in all of them, figure out the one you like, and if it will perform in your waters. I run a Ibis, and love it. It's not a technical skiff, but she's one skinny girl.

Ps: the HPX that was in back in 2001 was tippy, but I'm kinda a big boy at 6'4" 240lbs.


----------



## Captain Stansel

I appreciate everyone's input as the incite is well received by me except maybe the A&M tough guy. This is all personal preference and I'm educating myself. By no means am I suggesting that one is better over the other. It is simply my own personal experience. I would be very leery of purchasing a Beavertail, but that's my right especially based on some of my own personal experience directly with they boat manufacturer. Everyone has to choose what works for them. For me it's all about draft and based on all my experience the older Glades Skiff does the job for me with a 2 stroke 25 HP. I've fished on them many times and it's just a great boat for me to fish POC, Rockport, & Mansfield. I also fish West Galveston Bay. The mid 2000 models are a lot lighter (under 300 #) and draft in 2 1/2" of water compared to what they build new. I need that draft to enter back lakes where the mouths are covered with exposed oysters at low tide.


----------



## Finn Maccumhail




----------



## omgidk

Finn Maccumhail said:


>


LOL that's great


----------



## Bruce J

Regarding the weight on the HPX-T, I believe Maverick is the only company that publishes the fully rigged boat weight. There's a big difference between hull weight only, which Maverick used to advertise as about 425 pounds, and that of a truly finished/fully rigged boat. Unfortunately you won't find any two boat manufacturers who measure their boats the same way, so you can pretty well throw away any other published weights you see.

Secondly, if you see how Maverick builds the boats (and I've seen it first hand at the factory), you'll see that they are extremely well made, hand-laid and with a resin-infused system that makes the boat as strong and light as reasonably possible. If you get a chance to pole the boat in real fishing conditions, you will be smiling, not worrying about what the weight is.

As for it being tippy, it all depends on what you're comparing it to. I imagine a Curlew is less tippy since it's quite a bit wider, but compared to any other comparable true poling skiff, I think the Mav is less tippy than some which have a more rounded hull. But all of these boats will seem tippy compared to other styles of boats.

Full disclosure: Maverick HPX-T owner for 12 years, but no other affiliation.


----------



## Captain Stansel

Bruce J said:


> Regarding the weight on the HPX-T, I believe Maverick is the only company that publishes the fully rigged boat weight. There's a big difference between hull weight only, which Maverick used to advertise as about 425 pounds, and that of a truly finished/fully rigged boat. Unfortunately you won't find any two boat manufacturers who measure their boats the same way, so you can pretty well throw away any other published weights you see.
> 
> Secondly, if you see how Maverick builds the boats (and I've seen it first hand at the factory), you'll see that they are extremely well made, hand-laid and with a resin-infused system that makes the boat as strong and light as reasonably possible. If you get a chance to pole the boat in real fishing conditions, you will be smiling, not worrying about what the weight is.
> 
> As for it being tippy, it all depends on what you're comparing it to. I imagine a Curlew is less tippy since it's quite a bit wider, but compared to any other comparable true poling skiff, I think the Mav is less tippy than some which have a more rounded hull. But all of these boats will seem tippy compared to other styles of boats.
> 
> Full disclosure: Maverick HPX-T owner for 12 years, but no other affiliation.


Bruce,

Thank you for your input. Can I pick your brain a little with some more info? Based on your extensive experience what will your boat truly run in soft and hard bottoms. What is the true draft of your rig: Fuel, cooler, gear, 2 anglers. I usually pack as light as I can. Only put enough fuel in for the day and limit ice and only take bottled water and a couple of sandwiches. What engine are you running?

Thank you for your time.


----------



## Finn Maccumhail

Capt. Stansel- can you take a picture measuring the 2.5" draft on the Hells Bay Glades Skiff?

I've fished out of one before and they do get skinny but not 2.5" skinny. In my experience the true draft on poling skiffs is generally 2-4" more than what the manufacturers claim.

2.5 inches is shorter than the length of my pinky finger.


----------



## mikedeleon

Finn Maccumhail said:


> Capt. Stansel- can you take a picture measuring the 2.5" draft on the Hells Bay Glades Skiff?
> 
> I've fished out of one before and they do get skinny but not 2.5" skinny. In my experience the true draft on poling skiffs is generally 2-4" more than what the manufacturers claim.
> 
> 2.5 inches is shorter than the length of my pinky finger.


You sure it's your pinky finger you are measuring?


----------



## Captain Stansel

Finn Maccumhail said:


> Capt. Stansel- can you take a picture measuring the 2.5" draft on the Hells Bay Glades Skiff?
> 
> I've fished out of one before and they do get skinny but not 2.5" skinny. In my experience the true draft on poling skiffs is generally 2-4" more than what the manufacturers claim.
> 
> 2.5 inches is shorter than the length of my pinky finger.


Lets be clear. As I mentioned in my first post the true draft is 4" with fuel and 2 anglers. Take the anglers out and at rest it is a true 2 1/2" and absolutely I'll take pictures of this. Keep in mind this is the older and lighter mold that Hell's made back in the early 2000. The weight of the hull has changed since then thus the specifications have changed and it's a heavier boat. I've been on both and there is a significant difference in my opinion.


----------



## texasislandboy

Anyone ever been in a Back Contry 169 by champion? I have been looking at one for a 2nd boat for a while. No tunnel but had a nice pad on it with a jack plate.


----------



## mikedeleon

Owned one for about three years. Sold it last summer. What do you want to know.


----------



## mikedeleon

Well to clarify...champion bought bc, and then ranger bought champion. I think that is how it went down

I owned a 98 back country ghost. Fantastic boat.


----------



## Captain Stansel

texasislandboy said:


> Anyone ever been in a Back Contry 169 by champion? I have been looking at one for a 2nd boat for a while. No tunnel but had a nice pad on it with a jack plate.


I haven't, but if it's the same boat I'm thinking of they have no transom that's built up for engine and running shallow. Even with jack plate the engine sits low. To truly perform at speed in shallow water they have to be significantly tweaked, but that adds weight. Just my 2 cents and not sure what your needs are.


----------



## Bruce J

Capt Stansel:
I'd be happy to answer any other questions you have. Regarding depth, I've never been a guy to break out the ruler. I've seriously never felt the need to measure what the draft is. Some report the HPX-T draft as 5.5-6" while poling. That's probably as good as any. I do know that even after 12 years of owning these boats, I still get surprised how shallow they will go. I also know that no matter whether your boat drafts 2" or 12", there's always a time when you wish it were an inch less.

I suspect any of the boats in this general class of poling skiffs will pole shallow enough to catch 99% of the fish out there and I'd suggest focusing on the other things that might make more difference to you such as cost, capacity, storage, build quality, etc.

Bruce


----------



## FXSTB

Getting up and running depth claims regarding shallow water boats in South Texas remind me of high school days when my 13 second mustang spanked every 10 second car in town......Over the past 25 years of shallow water running in probably 100+ boats, skiffs, jet drives, whatever...I've never seen one float in 2 1/2" of water and get up in less than 8 inches (I even doubt that)......before somebody(s) start refuting my claim, take a ruler with you on your next trip. River deltas with 2' of soft mud don't count!!!!


----------



## texasislandboy

Cool Well I'm waiting for a nice weather day to go test run it. I'll stop in some shallow water and try to blast off in it.


----------



## Fish Eye

I have an HPX-T with a 70 yamaha 2 stroke. I am no skiff expert but I can tell you that my boat does what I need it to. If it is soft I haven't had a situation in the back country that it didn't perform well. I don't really want to state hard facts about whether it's 4 inches to 8 inches to get up because I think people lie about that stuff all the time. But if the hull is sitting on the mud and you know how to spin it up it will get up. As for running it will do anything you want it to do with a soft bottom. As for hard sand I haven't been in any model skiff that will get up in a true 4 inches. I'm sure they are out there but I haven't been on them.


----------



## texasislandboy

I think I would be happy if it got up in 18".


----------



## shallowist

After spending the better part of 35 years fishing from small "technical" poling skiffs and other shallow draft boats..... It is my opinion that the best way to make this decision is to at least truly attempt to define what is most important about the boat. Draft, fit and finish, storage, comfort, ect. There is no one skiff that is better than all the rest at everything. What you might buy for Galveston might not be the best choice for POC or Rockport and vice versa. 

Lots of great skiffs and lots of great comments in this thread. There are also, in my opinion, quite a few mis representations here. After owning a Mitzi 17t for the past 5 years, I can say without a doubt, the boat is one of the dryer skiffs. Storage, not great, finish, leaves a lot to be desired, performance and draft, excellent. Every manufacturer is going to have some problems and possibly shortcomings, I would think how they stand behind their product is the issue. 

Couple of final thoughts.....If you ride in a boat, one time, and the operator doesn't know how to drive, your impression will probably not be a good one. All of the performance aspects in question when looking at these boats are relative. To call a poling skiff dry, only has so much meaning. These boats may have 14-16 inches of freeboard. The prop that is one any of these boats is a huge part of the performance. The thought that you should run your boat light on fuel and with a nearly empty cooler is one that I find interesting. Most skiff are "*** heavy" and without some weight forward, will not float at full potential. 

And the last one...... With a grin on my face.... The owner of New Water Boatworks, curlew, Ibis and stilt manufacturer, is Tim Clancy. Extremely sharp boat builder, and super guy. May not build the boat for your needs, but design, build and finish along with open water performance on the wide beam boats is very hard to beat. 

Good luck on your search and choice of skiffs. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## glgardnerjr

_ECC:

"I agree with the other gentlemen who commented on them. I like their boats and a friend of mine has given me positive feedback on their Lostman, but he said his buying experience wasn't favorable based on the personalities he dealt with which is a shame because I really like their new 2014 Glide. *I have some personal experience and I didn't get the warm and fuzzy *which is an issue for me when you're talking about dropping that much coin on a skiff. I've also talked to two different guides (one in POC and the other in Port A) and based on their comments who have run those boats steered me away. I'm not a basher and I won't go there, this is just my assessment. I would of considered buying the Glide new, but again I want to have the warm and fuzzy as well as the confidence in a boat builder. "_

Really confused by this statement, myself and two friends have recently been on the phone with Kevin at ECC and couldn't be any more impressed with the amount of time he will take to talk you through his skiffs. Additionally I can't imagine anyone being any more passionate about their skiffs.

As to Beavertails. I own a 2007 Osprey. Extremely dry skiff. I live on the water and am in West Galveston almost daily. Beating my way across West Galveston over the past 6 weeks of windier than hell conditions have convinced me that this boat was the right choice for me. Not as skinny as some but skinny enough and drier than most.

Posting a blanket statement about any of these boats is a disservice to all of them. Year and model make a big difference. Beavertail sold and mine was from the original owners and manufactured in Minnesota. New ones are now made in Florida with different owners. I have been on the phone with them and they too are great people.

As to the cracked transom. ANY boat when abused can be broken. Contender makes a great boat, one of the best. However, if you overpower it and run the sh&^ out of it tournament fishing you can break them. I know, I did.


----------



## Alwaysinshorts

Captain Stansel said:


> Lets be clear. As I mentioned in my first post the true draft is 4" with fuel and 2 anglers. Take the anglers out and at rest it is a true 2 1/2" and absolutely I'll take pictures of this. Keep in mind this is the older and lighter mold that Hell's made back in the early 2000. The weight of the hull has changed since then thus the specifications have changed and it's a heavier boat. I've been on both and there is a significant difference in my opinion.


I just purchased a skiff over the Memorial Day weekend. It's not one of the huge names like Ecc, Helles bay, etc. I purchased a 97 model hull of a silver king. Supposedly one of the true original microskiffs.

So here's my question. I've watched only one or two guys poling around for reds, everyone one of you guys want to make claims that a certain skiff can go in 2, 3, or 4 inches of water. Isn't the reality that you catch most of your fish in a foot of water? When do you really see lots of fish in 2inches of water? Is it like a silverback gorilla beating its chest, when you guys go back and forth about how shallow your boat goes? As long as it floats in 8 inches doesn't that accomplish what you need the boat to do?

This is really just a question, not meant to be a jab.


----------



## southpaw

Alwaysinshorts said:


> So here's my question. I've watched only one or two guys poling around for reds, everyone one of you guys want to make claims that a certain skiff can go in 2, 3, or 4 inches of water. Isn't the reality that you catch most of your fish in a foot of water? When do you really see lots of fish in 2inches of water? Is it like a silverback gorilla beating its chest, when you guys go back and forth about how shallow your boat goes? As long as it floats in 8 inches doesn't that accomplish what you need the boat to do?


I don't speak for everyone here, but the need for a skiff to float in 4" of water isn't so you can catch fish in 4" of water. In a lot of the marsh areas I fish they aren't consistent depth. So you may be poling down a marsh drain that's 1' of water then all of a sudden there's a stretch that goes to 4-6" or shallower before dropping off to 1-1.5". In that instance I need to be able to pole over that or push my boat over without having to get on plane and run over it, scaring every fish within a quarter mile.



> To call a poling skiff dry, only has so much meaning


This is sooooo true. The way someone operates a skiff has a lot to do with how it handles and how wet/dry it is. Know the limitations of your boat, know it's strengths. Play to it's strengths.


----------



## glgardnerjr

A little more support for dealing with East Cape

http://www.microskiff.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1400812850


----------



## noise.boy

Ok, I've remained silent on this thread for a while. Im not surprised by Kevin and ECC sending replacement parts no questions asked. I'm a very happy ECC Fury owner in TX. Kevin and ECC has been wonderful to deal with. They make a wonderful boat. Everyone at ECC have been very helpful and honest with me from the beginning. I'd do it again without reservation.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## ibredfishin

*1856 Poles in 6" 2 guys fishing*

If you are in the Galvestion area. I take you fly fishing on my boat.
Lamarr Scott
713-703-5959


----------



## southpaw

ibredfishin said:


> If you are in the Galvestion area. I take you fly fishing on my boat.
> Lamarr Scott
> 713-703-5959


What kind of boat is that?


----------



## Finn Maccumhail

That is definitely a cool looking sled. I'd like more pics and info too. I certainly don't recognize that hull.


----------



## SiteCast

Just the fact that the OP dogged the Beavertail is enough to discredit the entire post. Check the Florida Internet boards for more reliable info on poling skiffs from te people that run them every day.


----------



## mikedeleon

Beavertail - Didn't they get their start splashing Hell's Bay boats and end up settling out of court.


----------



## texasislandboy

ibredfishin said:


> If you are in the Galvestion area. I take you fly fishing on my boat.
> Lamarr Scott
> 713-703-5959


Whats the info on that thing looks like a great hull.


----------



## glgardnerjr

mikedeleon said:


> Beavertail - Didn't they get their start splashing Hell's Bay boats and end up settling out of court.


Court case between HB & BT was with the original owners in Minnesota. I have been told two versions of the story surrounding the original BT skiff (like mine). The original mold was splashed off a HB but there were enough modifications that BT won the suit but was in financial difficulty and sold their mold to HB and it was destroyed. Money from the sale was used to recapitalize the company and it was then sold and relocated to FL. The more common rumor is that HB won the suit but there were enough inferences by the current owners of BT to make me believe the first story. However they won't say much and couldn't tell me anything about my 2007 Osprey.


----------



## Rich11111

Here is a video on how BT checked there draft for others to see.

I was curious about BT since I have one of their early (splashed?) models


----------



## rjackh

mikedeleon said:


> Beavertail - Didn't they get their start splashing Hell's Bay boats and end up settling out of court.


That's what I have heard before.

I am surprised by your warm and fuzzy comment about ECS. I have exchanged emails with him before and he was very helpful. One day I will have a center console EC Fury, such an awesome boat.


----------



## Laguna Freak

*ECC Lostmen*



glgardnerjr said:


> A little more support for dealing with East Cape
> 
> http://www.microskiff.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1400812850


I did the whole shopping, fishing out of them, researching chore for a full year.

I decided on a Lostmen, full Kevlar build with vented tunnel. I think it is an awesome boat and I have zero buyer's remorse after 2.5 years. I had some difficulty with the jack plate and Kevin had the mfr take care of me. Yes, sometimes Kevin will not be convinced of what you say you want and he will attempt to direct you to some practicality. I have a buddy who bought one on my recommendation and then proceeded to attempt to get it to perform what I deem shallow water miracles. He is not happy. I on the other hand, could not be any happier with my Lostmen. It is an amazing technical poling skiff. It will get you wet in the chop but in my experience it is the most stable on the pole, maneuvers like a dream even in 20 mph winds, jumps on plane in a boat length with only 12" water under her, and will run through water that is barely over my ankles. Oh yeah, and it runs through shallow, twisty marsh creeks like it is on rails.

'nuff said!


----------



## Laguna Freak

*Re; Beavertail*

In my opinion, as well as the judge's opinion, the original owner's did not "splash" HB. They acquired the molds out of one of HB's bankruptcy's. Nothing wrong with that. It's called "BUSINESS". HB had to pay BT a big pile of money to stop building hulls from the molds they acquired out of HB's bankruptcy.

Afterward, BT struggled to produce a design that would perform at the same level. They may have been successful by now.

I looked hard at the new design BT's in 2010 - 2011. Fished from one and found their draft claims to be greatly exaggerated. It simply would not fish the waters I fish. That said, I know nothing about the current BT ownership or their products.

Like someone said earlier in this and many other posts; every mfr builds a bad one now and then. Get over it, decide what fits your needs as a fisherman, do your homework, and then go out and buy the best that your budget will permit and stop cracking on others that you know little or nothing about.


----------



## Finn Maccumhail

That is one sweet Lostmen. Love the color on it.

But riddle me this, what's the point of the off-set CC like that? Is it just to have more room on one side but still have an elevated console?

One thing about the SC and CC that I would have to get done custom is the height- I'm 6'3" and with 2 herniated discs in my lower back the ability to stand up (or on a leaning post) and run is highly preferred vs. the lower seating position in most skiffs. Plus, the ability to see better is huge IMHO.


----------



## Laguna Freak

glgardnerjr said:


> Court case between HB & BT was with the original owners in Minnesota. I have been told two versions of the story surrounding the original BT skiff (like mine). The original mold was splashed off a HB but there were enough modifications that BT won the suit but was in financial difficulty and sold their mold to HB and it was destroyed. Money from the sale was used to recapitalize the company and it was then sold and relocated to FL. The more common rumor is that HB won the suit but there were enough inferences by the current owners of BT to make me believe the first story. However they won't say much and couldn't tell me anything about my 2007 Osprey.


The suit is a matter of public record and can be viewed on the internet. The settlement details are not public record. The long and short of it; Beavertail won, Hell's Bay paid BT to stop making HB's original hull design which BT bought out of an HB bankruptcy sale. Clearly, because HB was a poorly run business at that time and went bankrupt. The settlement was simply a business deal brokered by lawyers and that has been blown out of proportion by chair bound internet skiff analysts.


----------



## Laguna Freak

Finn Maccumhail said:


> That is one sweet Lostmen. Love the color on it.
> 
> But riddle me this, what's the point of the off-set CC like that? Is it just to have more room on one side but still have an elevated console?
> 
> One thing about the SC and CC that I would have to get done custom is the height- I'm 6'3" and with 2 herniated discs in my lower back the ability to stand up (or on a leaning post) and run is highly preferred vs. the lower seating position in most skiffs. Plus, the ability to see better is huge IMHO.


Finn,

You hit the nail on the head. More room to move around on the port side, stretch legs, etc. I always drive standing up in marsh creeks and unfamiliar back lakes or oyster infested waters. My console is about 1" taller than their standard to fit my comfort zone. ECC will build it however you want it. There is still room on the starboard side to access rods under the gunnel.


----------

