# four underexposed black and whites - c&c please



## Koru (Sep 25, 2006)

just to set the scene... i took these late yesterday afternoon. it was very overcast, cooling off and the sun had already gone below the hills.

Aperture Mode, F9, Exp -0.7 135mm









Aperture Mode, F5.6, Exp -0.7 100mm









Aperture Mode, F5.6, Exp -0.7 75mm









Aperture Mode, F5.6, Exp -0.7 80mm









i wanted specifically to underexpose the images for a certain effect.

all were taken in black and white custom setting with Image Sharpening at +1, Tone compensation at +2 and no filter effects.

post processing for the first two, was simply to add my sig.
for the third, i sharpened and tweaked (barely) the curves to bring out a little more white and to slightly darken the grey and added my sig.
the fourth was sharpened and sig added.

okay folks, rip 'em apart please. i want to learn. 

rosesm


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## Pocketfisherman (May 30, 2005)

Personally, I like BW better when there is a wider tonal range spanning from close to brightest white to full black. To me, that is one of the benefits of BW over color is that you can capture a very wide range of contrast that just won't look good in color, and then compress it into a range of BW tones and still get a good looking image. Of the three, I like the third one best because it does have a wider tonal range which draws the eye to the focal point of that image. Because of all the cool detail in the mid tones and shadows of the first image, I think it has a huge potential for some tweaking and layer masking with curves to bring out highlights on the small seed pod spheres. That could still be done while keeping the original mood I think. If you'd like, I'll give it a go with an edit to show what I mean.

The overall feel I get from the set if one of an approaching end, or finality. Not to be morbid, but they make me think of death, like plants before winter. I think the overall darkness of the images is driving that in my mind.


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## Gator_Nutz (Sep 27, 2006)

It's a nice series Karen. I think PF's C&C is right on and very well worded. I too get a certain feeling or in a certain mood from the images. Perhaps not one such as death but maybe just an impending change of some kind. I think how a person feels when observing something like this or how it affects them emotionally, to some degree depends on their current state of mind before they even look at them, if that makes sense. You sort of know the frame of mind I am in lately so the feeling these images give me should be no surprise. On a different day I might look at these and get a totally different feeling from them. To me, just the fact that we are actually discussing "feelings" that looking at your work generates or instigates, tells me that you have definitely succeeded with them.
Now, as for favorites, I think I really enjoy the last one the most. There is just something about it, the shadows, the bokeh in the background, the sharpness of the front subject, and the way it is laid out in the frame that is very appealing. The first I want a tad sharper in detail. The other two I would like the subject not quite so centered. But, even so, as they currently stand, I think all four would look very nice printed, framed, and arranged on your wall.
James


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## Koru (Sep 25, 2006)

Pocketfisherman said:


> Personally, I like BW better when there is a wider tonal range spanning from close to brightest white to full black. To me, that is one of the benefits of BW over color is that you can capture a very wide range of contrast that just won't look good in color, and then compress it into a range of BW tones and still get a good looking image. Of the three, I like the third one best because it does have a wider tonal range which draws the eye to the focal point of that image. Because of all the cool detail in the mid tones and shadows of the first image, I think it has a huge potential for some tweaking and layer masking with curves to bring out highlights on the small seed pod spheres. That could still be done while keeping the original mood I think. If you'd like, I'll give it a go with an edit to show what I mean.
> 
> The overall feel I get from the set if one of an approaching end, or finality. Not to be morbid, but they make me think of death, like plants before winter. I think the overall darkness of the images is driving that in my mind.


please give the edit a go, i'd appreciate being able to see the difference.

thanks for commenting, you've given me good food for thought. i like how you told me how they affected you too. it's part of what i want to be able to achieve, ultimately.

there are some wild lillies that are not far from where i live (but awkward to get close to)... they are white. i will try and see if i can get some better tonal range. i think black and white is more tricky to do than colour. i'd love to be able to master it.

thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts. 

rosesm


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## Koru (Sep 25, 2006)

Gator_Nutz said:


> It's a nice series Karen. I think PF's C&C is right on and very well worded. I too get a certain feeling or in a certain mood from the images. Perhaps not one such as death but maybe just an impending change of some kind. I think how a person feels when observing something like this or how it affects them emotionally, to some degree depends on their current state of mind before they even look at them, if that makes sense. You sort of know the frame of mind I am in lately so the feeling these images give me should be no surprise. On a different day I might look at these and get a totally different feeling from them. To me, just the fact that we are actually discussing "feelings" that looking at your work generates or instigates, tells me that you have definitely succeeded with them.
> Now, as for favorites, I think I really enjoy the last one the most. There is just something about it, the shadows, the bokeh in the background, the sharpness of the front subject, and the way it is laid out in the frame that is very appealing. The first I want a tad sharper in detail. The other two I would like the subject not quite so centered. But, even so, as they currently stand, I think all four would look very nice printed, framed, and arranged on your wall.
> James


you've taught me a lot too.... looks like i've got the 'mood' sussed and it's just clicked in my mind that i can use the different tonal values to give me depth.

i will have a go at taking the same photos again using slightly different exposure settings.

i recall being aware that i could see some 'noise' when i was viewing the images on the camera. i'm not sure why that was. but it's obviously something else that i need to look into further also.

so things to work on:
*-wider todal range* - adjust exposure slightly; try different time of day
*-sharpness *- tripod, or alter aperture? *
-noise* - hmm maybe try the tripod or altering shutter speed

cool bananas.

thank you. i have some good solid stuff to work on.

rosesm

ps you're right about existing state of mind seeing images a certain way. perhaps the trick for me to try is to _change_ the existing state of mind...


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## Dances With Fish (Jul 24, 2006)

Looks like PF AND GATOR got you taken care of Karen... Very tranquil images..Love the B&W...You know me...NE WAY Yeah... Great shots....All four...Simple yet effective...Im feelin kinda MOODY all the sudden...LOL


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## Pocketfisherman (May 30, 2005)

Gator_Nutz comments hit really close to home..and that's a good thing. The more I think about it I believe any edit I would do would sacrifice the emotion for the sake of technical tweaking - of which I am often prone to do to excess. The fact that the images do invoke such emotion is indicative of their effectiveness.


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## Koru (Sep 25, 2006)

hmm Moody eh Ryan. lol be careful out there!

Pocketfisherman... did they _change_ your emotional state though from before you saw them? there is a difference i think.

okay here's some from today.

please let me know if i'm getting closer to the 'wider tonal range'... i think i am, but am not sure.























































and one more coming because i converted it to a .tiff just to see what it looked like and have discovered i can't upload it.


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## Koru (Sep 25, 2006)

here it is...









rosesm

like i said, please let me know your thoughts.


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## stargazer (May 24, 2004)

Karen, I like the second set a lot better, as stated before about the first set, these have greater contrast and tonal range.


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## Pocketfisherman (May 30, 2005)

Karen,
It's hard to answer your question because I'm not sure I can recall my mindset at the time I viewed the shots originally. 

The best way to assess the tonal range is to open the histogram window in Photoshop and strive for a histogram that is as broad as possible. The Adobe Camera Raw processor also has a very powerful BW convertor for shots made as RAWs in that you get the ability to map various hues to BW tones and individually control their intensity. If you have these images as RAW files, you might want to give it a try and play with it. For plants or landscapes, you can get some really nice images by adjusting the sliders for Reds and Greens. To use it, inside the Camera Raw window, go to the right side of the pain and click on the 4th little square tabbed icon with the horizontal bars on it. When that window opens, put a checkmark in the small box at the top that says "Convert to Grayscale". This will bring up the hue mixer, then play away.


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## Dorado-Mahi (May 23, 2004)

Hi Karen. I like the mood of dark, loneliness and isolation portrayed in the first four images but would like to see the composition a little tighter in the 1st two images by moving the main subject slightly right or left of center.

Like the composition of the next set of images but they don't convey the same moodiness as your first set of images. 

Has anyone ever told you that there is some gnarly looking vegetation growing over there? LOL


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## Koru (Sep 25, 2006)

Pocketfisherman, i'm going to try to do as much learning as i can in black and white, just using my camera. i really want to limit how much i do in post processing. at least at this early stage. (i'll print out your RAW suggestions though and keep them for when i get to that stage. thank you for them  ) oh.. should i use the in camera histogram to try for a broad coverage?

Ray, i don't like the composition of the first two either. i was just trying hard to get the exposure level and stupidly didn't think about composition. it takes me a while to put everything together in one place at one time lol thanks for your thoughts, you're right about the lack of moodiness in that second set. i think time of day as well as subject matter contributes to moodiness, exposure levels are simply another 'tool'. but definitely a fun tool. 

wait until you see Spring vegetation.


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## Pocketfisherman (May 30, 2005)

Generally you use the in camera histogram to adjust the overall exposure so that you are not clipping highlighs or shadows. If the histogram runs off the far left or far right on the horizontal line, that's clipping. You can't really control the spread of the histogram because that is determined by the contrast range in the seen your shooting. Your exposure adjustments just move the histogram graph left or right. With digital, it is better to have it as far to the right as possible without blowing or clipping highlights. Those are general rules.....when creativity comes into play, throw them all out the window and go for whatever gives you the end result your trying to achieve. One thing is certain though, you will get much better BW conversions shooting in RAW or Color JPEGs and then converting with a channel mixer than you will get with the camera set to Monochrome mode.


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