# Long Range Shooting & Optics



## BATWING (May 9, 2008)

A few weeks ago I was hanging out at a buddies ranch. Incidentally he had set up a long range shooting area out to about 800yrds with 8"x8" metal targets. The targets were staggered from 100yrds on out to 800yrds. I have (2) buddies that are eat up this style shooting and they each had a suppressed Lapua 338, & NightForce Optics. I really enjoyed shooting this super fine weapon and really liked the Nightforce Optics they used.

Guns are hunting tools for me and I never attempted a shot over 200yrds ever. It sure was a treat to shoot those weapons. Anyway I did bring my little Remington 700 VTR in a .308 (NIKON) 3x9x40 buckmaster, a basic whitetail setup. My buddies did the calculations on my round vs target and I was able to freehand a couple of ringers on the 600yrd target with my 308 and crappy scope, 100degrees and crosswind. They just said aim about 6.5' over your target. LOL. I never thought my weapon was capable shooting that accurate and for that matter me being able to pull it off.

Can you shooters recommend a descent scope that I can shoot with a good zero and easy to use for a beginner that wont break the bank? I will mount on the Rem 700/308.


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## theeyeguy (May 24, 2011)

Budget? If you don't want to jump up to NightForce... I would recommend looking at the Vortex PST line.


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## BATWING (May 9, 2008)

theeyeguy said:


> Budget? If you don't want to jump up to NightForce... I would recommend looking at the Vortex PST line.


I see the NF scopes are going to be a minimum 2-3 grand. The rifle was only $800 (new) and hoping to not spend more than that. Maybe Im barking up the wrong tree with the wrong dog.It look slike that Vortex PST might be the perfect fit. Ill check them out.


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## muney pit (Mar 24, 2014)

Hey , that 308 has more than enough nut to get yea out to 800. That pst is a good scope for what you get. The glass is nowhere close to the NF but niether is the price. Buy some good match ammo, make a dope card and practice practice. Its fun but can be expiensive if u let it.

I got the wife hooked awhile back and she loves it to. A vid of her at 600 with a 308


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## Sgrem (Oct 5, 2005)

Man for hunting situation the Zeiss HD5 3x15x42 with an RZ 800 reticle is the best hunting scope on the planet period. When you know how to use it you can shoot confidently at those distances in a split second without having to calculate or turn turrets or anything...just pop up and shoot the yardage.

I shot a zebra a 450 yards. Cameraman said come awn man yall shoot too fast im barely able to get any film!! 

Shot a baboon on a full run at 505 yards with about a second to spare before he disappeared. 

Shot two coyotes at 700 yards one after the other. Sent the second bullet before the first dog hit the dirt. Didnt have much time as they were just crossing the road. Boom....Boom....then first dog fell....then second dog fell.

Would never have been able to make those quick hunting situation shots with calculations and turrets. Would have just had to watch those animals leave.


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## Sgrem (Oct 5, 2005)

I was a leupold guy forever. Hunted with that Zeiss HD5 one time and sold all my Leupolds.

Have the Zeiss 3x15x42 RZ800 on my .204, on my .270, and on my 7mm mag.
Have the Zeiss 5x25x50 RZ1000 on my 6.5 Grendel and it will absolutely stretch out there.


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## muney pit (Mar 24, 2014)

sgrem said:


> Man for hunting situation the Zeiss HD5 3x15x42 with an RZ 800 reticle is the best hunting scope on the planet period. When you know how to use it you can shoot confidently at those distances in a split second without having to calculate or turn turrets or anything...just pop up and shoot the yardage.
> 
> I shot a zebra a 450 yards. Cameraman said come awn man yall shoot too fast im barely able to get any film!!
> 
> ...


Those Ballistic drop scope have a purpose but i dont think the OP is looking for. Dialing in and knowing dope is half the fun. Not to mention once you find your ammo any mil/mlr scope can be used as a quick hold over type scope.


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## Sgrem (Oct 5, 2005)

muney pit said:


> Those Ballistic drop scope have a purpose but i dont think the OP is looking for. Dialing in and knowing dope is half the fun. Not to mention once you find your ammo any mil/mlr scope can be used as a quick hold over type scope.


oh man i agree!! I would strongly reccomend the ballistic reticles for most recreational hunters for real time actual hunting situations if they plan to try some long range shots on game. For those experienced in dialing in the turrets and mils for long range shooting that is also a fun different game usually allowing for more time to set up the weapon system.

I thought OP was looking for a hunting option.


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## BATWING (May 9, 2008)

Thanks sgrem. I highly doubt i will be taking any long range shots in a hunting application. For deer i will be taking shots at 200yrds or less. I cant tell what Im shooting that far any further away. LOL Now varmits and hogs can be at any distance.


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## Csafisher (Nov 16, 2010)

The vortex viper hst line is good as well and a little cheaper than the PST. The HD5s are pretty nice as well.


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## bigfishtx (Jul 17, 2007)

Csafisher said:


> The vortex viper hst line is good as well and a little cheaper than the PST. The HD5s are pretty nice as well.


I have those in the LR model on my hunting rifles now. Really good optics with a ranging reticle plus an exposed Elevation turret.


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## Cynoscion (Jun 4, 2009)

Not trying to steal the thread away from the original question but has anybody except me ever noticed that Vortex scopes only offer 65 MOA of elevation adjustment in any of their scopes except for the top of the line models?

With your .308 65 MOA (32.5 up and 32.5 down) is probably not going to get you out to 1000 yards without a 20 MOA base.


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## Cynoscion (Jun 4, 2009)

After some quick math, the 20 MOA base and 65 MOA of travel in the scope will be very close to not making 1000. My only complaint with Vortex.


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## Csafisher (Nov 16, 2010)

~40-43MOA should get you to 1000yd


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## dosseric (Apr 13, 2010)

Batwing - there are multiple NF scopes here for less than 2k, and a few less than 1300 - several of my buddies have NF. They are excellent

http://www.eurooptic.com/sale/nightforce-demo-sale.aspx

these guys are great - I've bought several scopes from them and they have an awesome return policy.

The big glass scopes (like my Schmidt Bender PM2) are great at the range - but those big 34mm "long range" style scopes are very HEAVY - My scope alone is 39 ounces. Scope + Rings + rail and it adds up to over 3 pounds. It's expensive, it's heavy, and it has a million moving parts.

You do not need a 20x to bang steel at 600 or 1000. I frequently do it with mine set at 8x. I only zoom all the way up to judge an animal. You also do not need to spend 3k.

If spending 2k is an option. Take a look at a Schmidt and Bender PM2 fixed 10x42. Fixed power scopes offer the best picture you've ever seen. They are simple, durable, and have minimal moving parts. I have a fixed 6 SB, and it offers the best clarity ever looked through.

If I were building a 'hunting' only gun - it would have a SB PM2 fixed 10 on top.

If you want to save a few bucks (who doesn't)... get a used or demo NF on Europtic.


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## Lezz Go (Jun 27, 2006)

I own a Viper HST on my .308 and a Razor 5-20 on my .300 Win. Vortex is hard to beat for the money.


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## muney pit (Mar 24, 2014)

Csafisher said:


> ~40-43MOA should get you to 1000yd


Im pretty sure i was at 39.5-40 moa with a 100 zero pushing a 175 smk 2600.


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## muney pit (Mar 24, 2014)

Cynoscion said:


> After some quick math, the 20 MOA base and 65 MOA of travel in the scope will be very close to not making 1000. My only complaint with Vortex.


It would work with a 20 moa base and if your pushing the 175 or 178's at or above 2600. Any less and your subsonic and in trouble anyway.


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## andre3k (Dec 3, 2012)

muney pit said:


> Im pretty sure i was at 39.5-40 moa with a 100 zero pushing a 175 smk 2600.


Im pushing my 175 smk's at 2690 and 35 moa gets me to 1k at bayou rifles. That load is definitely trans-sonic at a thousand. Maybe even going subsonic. I had a friend shoot some of my ammo while i worked the pits. Every few shots the bullet coming overhead would sound like a pop instead of a crack. Almost no one runs sierra 175's in the ft/r matches there. At least no one that wins consistently. The 185 berger juggernaut do really well at 1k. They stay very stable at transsonic speeds because of the different boat tail angle according to Bryan Litz. Im just a lowly sharpshooter so take my advice fwiw.

Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk


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## Cynoscion (Jun 4, 2009)

Csafisher said:


> ~40-43MOA should get you to 1000yd


So without a 20 MOA base, it ain't happening with a Vortex scope alone (less than 40 MOA of travel up).


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

I also have Vortex Viper PST scopes. There is plenty of elevation to shoot 800 yds, which is what the OP was discussing, with a 308. Might be right at the top of the dial, but it will handle it. For the $1k+ difference to get the 35MM tube, I don't see the value when talking about a hunting rifle that might get shot at 800 yds every once in a while. If the top of the dial worries you, for about $100 you can buy a good 20 MOA base and be done with it.


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## Flapp'n Shad (Sep 29, 2015)

I own a couple Shmidt and Bender fixed 10x scopes have no problem hitting plates at 700+ yards.


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## bigfishtx (Jul 17, 2007)

HydraSports said:


> I also have Vortex Viper PST scopes. There is plenty of elevation to shoot 800 yds, which is what the OP was discussing, with a 308. Might be right at the top of the dial, but it will handle it. For the $1k+ difference to get the 35MM tube, I don't see the value when talking about a hunting rifle that might get shot at 800 yds every once in a while. If the top of the dial worries you, for about $100 you can buy a good 20 MOA base and be done with it.


The PST has 65 MOA elevation adjustment plus, 20+ MOA in range reticles, giving you the ability to shoot way over 1000 yards.

http://www.vortexoptics.com/product...ffp-riflescope-with-ebr-1-moa-reticle/reticle

I use the Viper HS LR in 4-14 on my hunting rifles.

http://www.vortexoptics.com/category/viper_hs_lr_riflescopes

This one has 1 MOA range bars for easy holdover adjustment if you do not have time to dial it in. As you can see, the specs say it has 75 MOA elevation adjustment.

Both of these scopes are less than $1,000, the HS/LR is around $650.

I understand that if you split the range adjustment in half it seems to not be enough, but, I am pretty sure zero on a standard base does not split it right down the middle....maybe I am wrong?


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## BradV (Jun 27, 2012)

bigfishtx said:


> The PST has 65 MOA elevation adjustment plus, 20+ MOA in range reticles, giving you the ability to shoot way over 1000 yards.
> 
> http://www.vortexoptics.com/product...ffp-riflescope-with-ebr-1-moa-reticle/reticle
> 
> ...


If the scope is at its mechanical zero, half way between max and min elevation adjustment then yes you will have half of that up and half down. Most of the time after mounting, your scope isn't zeroed to the bore, so whichever direction that may be, you will lose additional adjustment. The hope is that your bullet impacts high so that you will have more adjustment up after zeroing.

Lets go with:

Example 1:
Scope - 100 MOA adjustment total

Scope mounted to rifle, bullet impacts perfectly with no adjustment (we all wish lol)

You will have 50 MOA up and 50 MOA down to adjust with.

Example 2:

Scope - 100 MOA adjustment total

Scope mounted to rifle, bullet impacts 5 MOA high before adjustment (more realistic example)

Scope is turned 5 MOA down to zero. You now have 45 MOA down remaining. You have 55 MOA up for dialing elevation. You can reach out a bit further and still zero compared to example 1 but not by much. This can also work against you in the opposite direction if your initial shots are low.

Example 3:

Scope 100 MOA adjustment total

Scope mounted on 20MOA base, bullet impacts now 25MOA high before adjustment.

Scope turned 25 MOA down. You have 25 MOA down remaining and 75 MOA up for much longer shots.

So Basically mounting on a standard base does split the total adjustment in half, plus or minus however much it takes to zero the rifle.


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