# Red Snapper and Gulf Council Danger



## jim smarr (May 21, 2004)

We it looks like the Council Woman Kay Williams will try to kill the Texas and Florida state water Red Snapper again. Ms. Williams is a Trent Lott lacky.
This move will be voted on shortly.

I am at the meeting. I am the lone Texan in the room.


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## Kenner21 (Aug 25, 2005)

All these politicians should be forced to have real jobs so they can't spend all their time trying to take away what fishing rights we have left. Thanks for being there regardless of the outcome.


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## Hotrod (Oct 11, 2006)

Thanks Jim.


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## CajunBob (Feb 24, 2008)

I wish I was there too.


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## jim smarr (May 21, 2004)

*Move to force States to Maintain Federal rules in state waters*

The move is on to adopt Fed Regs in State Waters for our fisheries.

Kay Williams and Roy Crabtree.


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## manintheboat (Jun 1, 2004)

If they succeed, will we get the rest of our season back? My guess is no.


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## Javadrinker (Feb 13, 2008)

Thanks for being there Jim!


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## Hughoo222 (Aug 24, 2005)

I just got off the phone with Jim and the motion to gut the for hire sector has passed and will go to the full council! IF you are a charter captian I suggest you get on the phone. The room is full of enviro's, CCA, and commercial fishermen except for Smarr...yet another stacked deck!


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## manintheboat (Jun 1, 2004)

What is being done to gut the for hire sector? What was the motion? Are you talking about the Williams motion to force states to mirror federal regulations on snapper?

Jim or Mont,

Please give us a heads up on exactly when the on record public comments will take place. I plan on being there, but need to know since it will be during work hours most likely. We really need to be there in force.


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## Hughoo222 (Aug 24, 2005)

That is correct, I am sure more details will come later.

Mike Stapleton



manintheboat said:


> What is being done to gut the for hire sector? What was the motion? Are you talking about the Williams motion to force states to mirror federal regulations on snapper?
> 
> Jim or Mont,
> 
> Please give us a heads up on exactly when the on record public comments will take place. I plan on being there, but need to know since it will be during work hours most likely. We really need to be there in force.


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## jjjansk (Jan 21, 2005)

*wind is blowing I want my days back.*

Jim you should ask Mr. Crab-*** if we get the blown out days we had so far and look to have in the coming week added to the end of the season??? oh wait I have that answer NO. 

Thanks for your efforts Jim even though they mean nothing!!


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## Snap Draggin (Nov 11, 2007)

It just keeps getting better and better doesn't it! Thanks for your efforts Jim. I wish I could be there, but I have to work. Thanks for keeping us informed and I am sure you will continue regardless of how bad the news is.


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## Unbound (Jul 12, 2004)

manintheboat said:


> If they succeed, will we get the rest of our season back? My guess is no.


F*** the rest of the season! What is that? One more month? NMFS has f***ed whatever management they tried, now they want to come in and f*** with Texas territorial waters. :hairout: F*** them!

Jim, thanks for being there for us and tell them that Eric Hanstad in Port Isabel says to "Go f*** themselves". And Jim, bring that flag with the canon and snapper that says,"Come and take it".
.:texasflag

Sorry about my language, but if you can't tell, I'm ****ed-off.


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## Javadrinker (Feb 13, 2008)

I wonder if the red snapper is just as rare and overfished in Mexico?... hummmmm


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## Fubar (Jun 10, 2005)

they should focus on building habitat and we'd have more snapper.


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## Chuck (May 21, 2004)

Thanks Jim....you seem to be the only one actively fighting to save the Texas snapper! Thanks for your efforts and your sacrifices! 

Who pays for your expenses to go to that meeting Jim? Plane fare, hotel, meals, etc? 


Chuck


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## Hughoo222 (Aug 24, 2005)

Chuck, I know in the past he has paid much of the tab out of his own pocket, we support each other too. Lets just say that my wife has no idea how many dinners we have bought or how many good cigars we have given as gifts.lol

Truth is we need help, things are better than they were a year ago but we have been going against Goliaths Chuck. The very issue this thread was about is something Jim and myself went to work on in 2006, he drove up twice from Corpus so we could go to meet with folks and plead our case for the recreational angler. At least our work got the ball rolling as to the questioning of NMFS's motives and where the battles would be fought. Our demeanor may scare a few folks...then again maybe we live in a place where dissention has become a bad thing in peoples minds. Sam Houston and others drew fire for taking a stand...were used to the bullets as well. The fight for our rights is not the problem...the problem is getting people involved and getting funding beyond memberships. We would invite all concerned about our fisheries to attend the banquet (see top of page on bluwater board) and purchase some of the finest outdoor art ever assembled in one place and other great items.
I figure there are lots of guys who could throw some money at the solution instead of buying all that gas for the snapper trips they were going to take, it would be well spent at a very critical time. So come spend a tank of gas and help us help you.

I will let Jim share his kind words for Dr Crabtree today...although most of them are not printable here.



Chuck said:


> Thanks Jim....you seem to be the only one actively fighting to save the Texas snapper! Thanks for your efforts and your sacrifices!
> 
> Who pays for your expenses to go to that meeting Jim? Plane fare, hotel, meals, etc?
> 
> Chuck


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## OUSooner (May 29, 2008)

*snapper*

at least it would be fair to louisiana, ms, and alabama then, maybe the entire gulf could get a 4 month season and not have worry about state lines, i just feel like if it was left up to the states to manage the fishery that it would end up being wiped out. thanks to our regs on tx and fl the entire gulf might not be able to fish snapper next year, at least we could have all had a shorter season.

found this article:
"Our red snapper season was shortened to a laughable 66-day period June 1 through Aug. 5. We'll miss the prime months of red snapper fishing in September, October and November.

A NMFS spokesman for the Southeast Regional Office said the federal agency had no choice but to shorten the season in federal waters with more fish being harvested this year by Texas and Florida.

"Ideally, we strive to have consistent regulations with those states. We work with all the states," NMFS marine fisheries biologist Andy Strelcheck said last week.

How about a loud and long Bronx cheer for the Lone Star State and the Sunshine State? Their lack of cooperation isn't appreciated.

"This is going to make it quite a bit more difficult for us to do what the law requires," Southeast Regional Office Director Roy Crabtree said a few months ago in the St. Petersburg (Fla.) Times. Hence the cutback.

Crabtree couldn't rule out the possibility of a complete recreational shutdown in federal waters if too many red snapper are caught in state waters. In March, Crabtree told 100 aggravated anglers in Texas, "Nobody in the Gulf of Mexico is happy. I'm not happy. You're not happy. I can understand your frustrations."

Federal fisheries managers' hands are tied concerning red snapper management. The bottom line is they must halt "overfishing" of red snapper by 2010 and rebuild the Gulf-wide population by 2032.

Every red snapper stock assessment since 1988 has indicated the red snapper were severely overfished, i.e., more were being taken out than replaced by reproduction. The last stock assessment was in 2005. The next one is in 2009."


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## Hughoo222 (Aug 24, 2005)

You may want to use the search feature here and do some homework on the management and so called science over the last 15 years. If you or I had 15 years to fix it and did not get it done we would be gone! If you fished much at all you would know there is no shortage of snapper...period. And seeing as you are a sooner and possibly live in Louisiana part time you should also know that we worked to retain our states rights and waters as a last line of defense...apparently we were right about where the fight would go. When it all comes down to the wire we are Texans and fight for Texas. Where were all you guys when the battle was raging?

TE=OUSooner]at least it would be fair to louisiana, ms, and alabama then, maybe the entire gulf could get a 4 month season and not have worry about state lines, i just feel like if it was left up to the states to manage the fishery that it would end up being wiped out. thanks to our regs on tx and fl the entire gulf might not be able to fish snapper next year, at least we could have all had a shorter season.

found this article:
"Our red snapper season was shortened to a laughable 66-day period June 1 through Aug. 5. We'll miss the prime months of red snapper fishing in September, October and November.

A NMFS spokesman for the Southeast Regional Office said the federal agency had no choice but to shorten the season in federal waters with more fish being harvested this year by Texas and Florida.

"Ideally, we strive to have consistent regulations with those states. We work with all the states," NMFS marine fisheries biologist Andy Strelcheck said last week.

How about a loud and long Bronx cheer for the Lone Star State and the Sunshine State? Their lack of cooperation isn't appreciated.

"This is going to make it quite a bit more difficult for us to do what the law requires," Southeast Regional Office Director Roy Crabtree said a few months ago in the St. Petersburg (Fla.) Times. Hence the cutback.

Crabtree couldn't rule out the possibility of a complete recreational shutdown in federal waters if too many red snapper are caught in state waters. In March, Crabtree told 100 aggravated anglers in Texas, "Nobody in the Gulf of Mexico is happy. I'm not happy. You're not happy. I can understand your frustrations."

Federal fisheries managers' hands are tied concerning red snapper management. The bottom line is they must halt "overfishing" of red snapper by 2010 and rebuild the Gulf-wide population by 2032.

Every red snapper stock assessment since 1988 has indicated the red snapper were severely overfished, i.e., more were being taken out than replaced by reproduction. The last stock assessment was in 2005. The next one is in 2009."[/QUOTE]


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## Unbound (Jul 12, 2004)

OUSooner said:


> *at least it would be fair to louisiana, ms, and alabama then*, maybe the entire gulf could get a 4 month season and not have worry about state lines, i just feel like if *it was left up to the states to manage the fishery that it would end up being wiped out.[/*QUOTE]
> 
> Punish Texas anglers to be fair to other states? :headknock It comes down to NMFS is needlessly punishing all of the Gulf recreational anglers in regards to snapper. The fact is that Texas has enough good habitat with plenty of snapper within our state waters to support a year long snapper fishery and TPWD has the cajones to make a stand. These snapper don't migrate up and down the coast to any significant degree so we are not taking anyone else's snapper. The snapper we've been catching have already been figured into the TAC so how are we hurting these other states? Are we supposed to just roll over and join in their misery? Is that your definition of fair- everybody gets hurt equally.
> 
> The feds have been doing such a great job of managing snapper over the years that they now claim snapper endangered. We should let them take control from the states to ensure that they become extinct.


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## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

LA, MS and AL only have state jurisdiction to 3 miles offshore... y'all should have negotiated yourselves a better deal before accepting Statehood like we did. If you had, you can bet your boudain balls you would be fighting to keep it as we are.


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## bwguardian (Aug 30, 2005)

OUSooner said:


> at least it would be fair to louisiana, ms, and alabama then, maybe the entire gulf could get a 4 month season and not have worry about state lines, i just feel like if it was left up to the states to manage the fishery that it would end up being wiped out. thanks to our regs on tx and fl the entire gulf might not be able to fish snapper next year, at least we could have all had a shorter season.


What about Oklahoma??


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## Levelwind (Apr 15, 2005)

That's why you're an Okie. Texas has done a very good job of managing it's resources, much better than the NMFS has done with the federal waters. Can't say about Fla.


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## OUSooner (May 29, 2008)

florida has overfished the hell out of their waters i have lived and fished in naples a ton, had to get away from all the northerners.


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## Hughoo222 (Aug 24, 2005)

here is a way to help...

http://www.rfabanquet.com/


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## tokavi (May 6, 2006)

OUSooner said:


> florida has overfished the hell out of their waters i have lived and fished in naples a ton, had to get away from all the northerners.


First - This aint Florida. We have plenty of snapper. Second if they overfished thier stocks it's thier fault, don't punish everyone else for thier mistakes. Third - this is a ridiculus discussion, NMFS doesn't have a clue about how to manage red snapper. Thier track record speaks for itself. 15 years to work on fixing a problem and now it's worse than ever. Someone please give me a job I can do this poorly and not get fired!


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## wacker (Mar 22, 2006)

tokavi said:


> First - This aint Florida. We have plenty of snapper. Second if they overfished thier stocks it's thier fault, don't punish everyone else for thier mistakes. Third - this is a ridiculus discussion, NMFS doesn't have a clue about how to manage red snapper. Thier track record speaks for itself. 15 years to work on fixing a problem and now it's worse than ever. Someone please give me a job I can do this poorly and not get fired!



WELL OK!..........MR. PRESIDENT:rotfl:


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## calixtog (May 24, 2006)

OUSooner said:


> florida has overfished the hell out of their waters i have lived and fished in naples a ton, had to get away from all the northerners.


*I bet you guys would go into apoplexy if the NMFS started managing the Canadian River.

Cg
*


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## Hughoo222 (Aug 24, 2005)

Calixto, I think you had'em at apoplexy!:****



calixtog said:


> *I bet you guys would go into apoplexy if the NMFS started managing the Canadian River.*
> 
> *Cg*


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## Javadrinker (Feb 13, 2008)

Hughoo222 said:


> Calixto, I think you had'em at apoplexy!:****


I second that, well said Calixto.


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## CajunBob (Feb 24, 2008)

Ok guys Jim told You what was going on and I have signed a form to that affect . If you want something to change Get off your asses and do something!! Don't leave it up to a few that has some balls to speak up .Grow some of your own and stand up for your rights as Americans and as TEXANS!!! If you don't have any balls Shut the Fu** up. And If you Have a problem with what I have said. Call Me (979) 415-4739 And I will Be more then Happy to meet you!!!


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## Unbound (Jul 12, 2004)

Wow! Don't know who that was directed at but while I may not want to meet you, I doubt that I'll shut up. I agree that complaining on this forum by itself isn't worth much, but I think most of us on this thread have stood up when we had the opportunity and have the right to add our opinions.


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## jim smarr (May 21, 2004)

Chuck you know I will pay my own travel for this one. I just had to pull over and answer that one. I am in Bay City headed to Rockport. I should be home by 1:00am. I will be back for public comment thurs. 9:00am sharp. LOL

I did get my thoughts on Snapper passed on during the meeting with Dr. Crabtree this evening.


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## Capt. Carman (Jun 5, 2007)

*Council Meeting*

Jim,

I was at the "Town Hall" meeting a few weeks ago and I ony wish I coud attend the meetings with you and the group at this one. Have to work to eat.

Please know you are appreciated and respected by Charter Captains who cannot attend this week. I only wish they would do a simultaneous web-cast of the meetings so more could witness what sounds like a stacked deck situation.

Please, if anyone can attend, help Jim fight the the fight. You're gonna be pi_ _ ed off when the fishery is closed and we can't run charters.

My best to you Jim and thanks again for fighting the fight.

Capt. Carman


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## CajunBob (Feb 24, 2008)

All I am saying is if you want something done then do it. this board is a stepping stone it is up to you as Americans to stand up for you rights. I have seen this before. If you send a letter to the presdent or your Gongo man That means yes man in DC. you can have some pull in what happens to you. I for one take soldiers fishing for free and we will bring in fish. All people that that think they are payed good need to ask the kids of the ones that have ALL GAVE SOME SOME GAVE ALL. and tell them that daddy will not be coming home....If you want more answers I will post them for you..


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## Chuck (May 21, 2004)

Jim,
I was pretty sure I knew the answer when I asked it....and I just want to thank you again for spending your dollars and your time in this fight! As Texans, we are **** fortunate to have you doing this and I, for one, appreciate the job you are doing. There are others, like Charlie, etc that do the same thing and all deserve our thanks and gratitude for doing what they do. 

If you will send me the documentation like last time, I will do the same thing.

Thanks again,
Chuck


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## jim smarr (May 21, 2004)

Chuck,

Thanks you have always been there when needed. I appreciate the support. I don't want to ever ask for help. The fundraiser will help with future travel. I was the only organization speaking out. The rest were in the bar. LOL

I have made it to Placious. Still some driving to do. Onward through the fog.


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## CaptDoug (May 24, 2004)

Jim, Thanks for being there for all of us, and a big thanks to Charlie who spoke also. There were a couple of others that I don't know but I think we are speaking to deaf ears. Every comment made by us had three excuses as to why our ideas will never be implemented. We talked about saving the big fish with a slot, but when I asked if we gave up the big fish would we get more fish added to our limit. The answer was we will only get two fish period. I asked if we gave up 2 20lb fish shouldn't we get 3 to 4 4-5 lb. fish since the TAC is about pounds not numbers. The answer was basically we will only get 2 fish, 2 lbs or 20lbs. So I guess the TAC is really not or will ever be about pounds of fish, just numbers. Then I was attacked by a member cause I said we were being forced to cull fish. Oh well! I will never take a fish out of the cooler to throw back to add a bigger one, but I will release 16" to 17" fish to wait for a bigger one. There law has forced us to do that. I'm sorry I can't afford $600-$800 in fuel for a couple of 16" fish. The public comment is Thursday at 10:45. I don't think I'll be able to make that one but hope some of ya'll can. Give em he77 Jim & Charlie.


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## Captn C (May 21, 2004)

Hughoo222 said:


> I just got off the phone with Jim and the motion to gut the for hire sector has passed and will go to the full council! IF you are a charter captian I suggest you get on the phone. The room is full of enviro's, CCA, and commercial fishermen except for Smarr...yet another stacked deck!


Any more details...."gut the for hire"?

You guys have left us hanging?!?!?!?!


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## B-Money (May 2, 2005)

calixtog said:


> *I bet you guys would go into apoplexy if the NMFS started managing the Canadian River.*
> 
> *Cg*


I thought ape-o-plexy was that special auto glass keeps primates from jumping through your window?


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## Hughoo222 (Aug 24, 2005)

They are going to take Texas waters or in other words force us adopt federal rules in state waters. 2 fish, 2 months state and federal waters....I figure next year may be worse.

I take it personally as Jim and I fought hard to bolster Texas' snapper fishery and ensure we were protected.

Again I ask that *everyone concerned* buy a ticket (or 10) to the banquet and *spend a tank of gas worth of money on some auction items or raffle tickets*. It will be a good chance to meet the people who fight for YOUR rights.

Knee jerk reactions will not get the job done, we need to have a unified front in order to politically get changes made on a state and national level. The RFA has fought these battles in the face of much adversity, Jim, myself and others have been attacked more times than I can count, we have sacrificed much and continued the fight despite our detractors and seemingly chronic apathy on the part of those we fought for...remember not long ago we were wrong, crazy and ect. I think it is very clear today that we were dead on.

*It is time to put your money where your mouth is boys...we all need to play a part. So you can't go to the banquet...you can still buy a new set of gloves for your fighter! I am asking you all to help however you can, join the rfa, get a banquet ticket, buy an auction item, tell 5 friends, ect. The letter writing will not get it done. It's time to saddle up!*

*Thank's to all who have helped in the past...had it not been for a few early on the fight may have been a short one! The future of our fishery is in our hands... *

*Regards (and Thanks),*
*Mike*
*TGCS/www.texasgreatbarrierreef.com*



Captn C said:


> Any more details...."gut the for hire"?
> 
> You guys have left us hanging?!?!?!?!


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## Captn C (May 21, 2004)

I assume you are referring to the for-hire sector only....if you hold permits you will not be allowed to retain snapper outside of the open season?

If so...kinda thought that was going to happen...that is a pretty easy reg. for them to put in place.


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## Hughoo222 (Aug 24, 2005)

Yeah thats kinda my point...it's too easy now that they have us all bent over. 
And it means 2 fish 2 months in Texas *and* federal waters!



Captn C said:


> I assume you are referring to the for-hire sector only....if you hold permits you will not be allowed to retain snapper outside of the open season?
> 
> If so...kinda thought that was going to happen...that is a pretty easy reg. for them to put in place.


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## RockportRobert (Dec 29, 2006)

If all this garbage does get thrown on us, is there any chance that we can have enough influence with our state guys to cause them to not aid in the enforcement of this [email protected]? Remember the "A" "B" "C" stickers a few years back? TP&W would not enforce that, and it was soon given up. Not being a defeatist, but its always good to have a plan b, or c, etc...

Just seems we might still have a little more pull with our own guys than with the feds. Great work Jim, Charlie, and the others. You are patriots!


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## jim smarr (May 21, 2004)

There was one member of the press there yesterday. Mr. Max Reed thank you for taking time to attend the GOMFCM. 



My statement to Dr. Crabtree was direct and to the point. I told him as did Charlie the system had failed. CCA and the Enviros seem to be the only folks smiling as we lose our Coastal Infrastructure. CCA was not there for the discussion as they headed for the Hotel Bar the second the Council Meeting was over. Russell Nelson and his Florida CCA buddy did not want to participate to help Texans.



I mentioned how people were closing their doors ,borrowing funds to buy fuel, Texas has lost 1.5 million license sales showing an overall downturn in all user groups, how and what are the data solutions, offered a trip card to be collected at jetties to clean up data. Roy was not pleased with me. I told him I did not believe his assessment or ability to assess the total universe of problems in Red Snapper. I pointed out specific flaws. He denied them. He offered a conference call. I agreed to talk if Dr. Shipp could be on the call. 



I told Roy we simply did not have time to wait for the Federal Government NMFS to fix the problem through normal channels. Roy said his hands were tied, some might go broke but he could not do anything due to Lawsuit. I wonder how many folks will continue to support the enviros once they figure out they have been locked out of their fishery. With the loss of the for hire sector 50 to 60 percent of Texans will be sitting with out access. The enviros will win again. 



Everyone should be aware we were the only Recreational Fishing Group fighting

to save the fishery and access for all not just the privileged that can afford to own and pay for the upkeep of an offshore boat.



If the for hire sector goes down most of the infrastructure supporting Recreational Fishermen goes down the tubes fairly quickly.


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## Hughoo222 (Aug 24, 2005)

We got soldiers lined up and angles to play...we need funding so we don't have to fight with one hand tied behind our backs. We have very good relations with the men and women at TPW but they can only do so much. TPW stood their ground a few months back and should be commended. Working with TPW is a win win for everyone, the stronger they are the better off we are. Our enemys have dug into all levels of management and have money coming in truck loads thanks to fear mongering and slanted science...and then we have the CCA/Enviro lawsuit that put us where we sit now, yet people are still signing up for STAR cause it provides scholarships for kids...all fine except those kids will not have a place to fish in 10 years anyways, there may be fish but they will be protected in a marine preserve...and if you doubt that prediction look back at the 15 year downward spiral of the snapper fishery management my NMFS and the attack on our sport by environmental groups and even CCA. TPW has made the majority of snapper busts for some time in Texas, NMFS enforcement is not even on the radar except for some angry guy they sent out on a TPW boat a few weeks back, NMFS does not even have an enforcement boat in Texas.
www.rfabanquet.com



ACbob said:


> If all this garbage does get thrown on us, is there any chance that we can have enough influence with our state guys to cause them to not aid in the enforcement of this [email protected]? Remember the "A" "B" "C" stickers a few years back? TP&W would not enforce that, and it was soon given up. Not being a defeatist, but its always good to have a plan b, or c, etc...
> 
> Just seems we might still have a little more pull with our own guys than with the feds. Great work Jim, Charlie, and the others. You are patriots!


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## [email protected] (May 24, 2004)

_"Texas has lost 1.5 million license sales"_

Dear Mr. Smarr,
Can you please elaborate on this... which licenses might these be?


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## jim smarr (May 21, 2004)

Comes from Gulf States Marine Commission report distributed yesterday at the Gulf Council Meeting. I believe I said all Licenses dealing with TPWD Sales. Published December 2007 No. 149 Licenses and Fees For Alabama, Florida,Mississippi and Texas in their Marine waters for the year 2006.

2004-2,516,327
2005-1,711,625
2006-1,003,058

Looks like about 1.5 million to me.

Maybe if we spent more time on fixing all the passes and building artificial reefs we could maintain our numbers in the areas we need to worry about. These numbers are used to calculate Wallop -Breaux funds as I understand it.

Hope that answered your question EJ.


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## [email protected] (May 24, 2004)

Dear Jim Smarr,

I guess I had to assume that since you are discussing Gulf of Mexico red snapper here the inference would be loss of saltwater fishing license sales. (_"Texas has lost 1.5 million license sales")_

According to latest TPWD data, saltwater license sales in Texas is at an all-time high and could eclipse the 1.2 million mark soon.

Other data from TPWD and American Sportfishing Association says that Texas is the only state in the U.S. experiencing growth within saltwater license sales. All others, including Florida, are declining at various rates. The growth is currently running at almost 5,000 new anglers per month.


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## kweber (Sep 20, 2005)

thanks so much, Jim and all others.
if red snapper are so severly limited I am afraid that they will soon be treated much like some do hard-heads.
slung against the boat to de-hook, cut off thru the mouth and doubtful many will be vented if they are not allowed as part of an offshore catch. many ice-chest snapper will also be thrown back if a larger one comes to the boat. one could even say that some rigs would have a string of red floating down-current.
JMO.


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## jim smarr (May 21, 2004)

Texas will not continue to grow due to current offshore regulations brought by the enviro whackos. Herd Sheep Mentality will take us all off the water.


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## Hughoo222 (Aug 24, 2005)

Ej, you might do well to not attempt to hijack this thread. We are all well aware of your passion for CCA and your support of their efforts in your magazine....please stay out of our fight...you got no dog in it.



[email protected] said:


> Dear Jim Smarr,
> 
> I guess I had to assume that since you are discussing Gulf of Mexico red snapper here the inference would be loss of saltwater fishing license sales. (_"Texas has lost 1.5 million license sales")_
> 
> ...


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## Snap Draggin (Nov 11, 2007)

Hughoo222 said:


> Ej, you might do well to not attempt to hijack this thread. We are all well aware of your passion for CCA and your support of their efforts in your magazine....please stay out of our fight...you got no dog in it.


LOL you must spread some reputation around before giving it to Hughoo222 again!


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## Chase This! (Jul 20, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> The growth is currently running at almost 5,000 new anglers per month.


HA. I can hardly find a crew of three people to go offshore.

These 5,000 new people per month must be targeting hardheads. Please help divert all attention to these new 5,000 per month. The hardhead desperately needs governmental intervention. I am not sure the hardhead fishery can withstand this pressure.

Brandon


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## Chase This! (Jul 20, 2007)

Snap Draggin said:


> LOL you must spread some reputation around before giving it to Hughoo222 again!


I got him covered.

Brandon


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## [email protected] (May 24, 2004)

Attempt to hijack? Jim says Texas has lost 1.5 million license sales and I posted that saltwater license sales are setting all-time records. How is that hijacking?


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## Bellyup (May 22, 2004)

*Correctly blame the feds, not the states*

OUSooner, I appreciate your concern, but IMO, the NMFS is stepping beyond their powers and want to tell states what to do. Then, when a state manages the states own fishery different than what NMFS wants, they try to blame that state. Don't fall into the trap that the NMFS is responding to other states. NMFS needs to focus on their waters only. Stay united as recreational fishermen and never blame another state for not giving in to the feds. The fishermen in the states that adopted the federal regulations need to blame the governing bodies of their state waters, not other states. ALL states should stand strong and tell the feds to regulate their own waters, which they have the right to, not to regulate the state waters like a dictatorship. The NMFS needs to come up with their own solution regardless of any state's regulation. That is what their job is! They would have few options, but the few would work. One would be to control commercial fishing.


OUSooner said:


> at least it would be fair to louisiana, ms, and alabama then, maybe the entire gulf could get a 4 month season and not have worry about state lines, i just feel like if it was left up to the states to manage the fishery that it would end up being wiped out. thanks to our regs on tx and fl the entire gulf might not be able to fish snapper next year, at least we could have all had a shorter season.
> 
> found this article:
> "Our red snapper season was shortened to a laughable 66-day period June 1 through Aug. 5. We'll miss the prime months of red snapper fishing in September, October and November.
> ...


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## jim smarr (May 21, 2004)

EJ -I took no offense you just did not know what I knew. I run into people questioning what I say because they have not read a report that I have read. Most would not read 1700 pages on Red Snapper just shoot from the hip. LOL Had I been offended I know where you live. 

You did feed me a good steak one night. I am not afraid to listen.


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## Hughoo222 (Aug 24, 2005)

*One more time....*

A refresher as to where we are in this mess, and a bit about how we got here!

*April 27, 2008, 12:07AM*
OUTDOORS
*Snapper issue full of snags
*Looser rules aren't likely in next few years


*By SHANNON TOMPKINS
*

Roy Crabtree pretty much cut to the heart of the situation facing red snapper, anglers who target that highly popular offshore fish, the businesses that depend on the snapper fishery, and the people charged with managing the marine resource.

"Nobody in the Gulf of Mexico is happy. I'm not happy. You're not happy," Crabtree, regional administrator for the National Marine Fisheries Service's southeast region, said to a crowd of about 100 aggravated anglers during a meeting Friday evening at the University of Houston-Clear Lake.

"I can understand your frustrations," he said to the group who had come, mostly, to voice their exasperation with increasingly tighter federal regulations on recreational red snapper harvest. "But I need real solutions that are consistent with the science and that will stand up in court."

The meeting, arranged and attended by Congressman Nick Lampson, D-Stafford, was meant as a way for Texas anglers to hear the reasoning behind recent moves to further tighten the already choked recreational snapper regulations in federally controlled Gulf waters and to question the point man for the federal agency responsible for managing the snapper fishery.

It was a grim 2 1/2 -hour session. And at its conclusion, it was obvious that the controversy surrounding the red snapper fishery is not going to fade any time soon.

More to the point, Texas offshore anglers can't expect to see much, if any, liberalization of snapper regulations under the current system used to manage the fishery.

*Following the law*

*Federal fisheries managers see their hands as tied concerning red snapper management. *

*Between the mandates of the federal Magnuson-Stevens Fisheries Conservation and Management Act and the orders of a federal judge in the wake of a lawsuit challenging NMFS' decisions in management of the red snapper fishery, the agency is forced, by law, to end "overfishing" of red snapper by 2010 and rebuild the Gulf-wide snapper population by 2032.* (A result of the CCA/enviro lawsuit)

Every one of the red snapper stock assessments conducted since 1988 (including the most recent in 2005) has indicated red snapper were "severely" overfished - more fish were being taken out of the population than were being replaced by reproduction.

The only way to stop overfishing is to take fewer fish. So NMFS has, over the past two decades, steadily tightened bag limit and season length, aiming to reduce the harvest to a level at which the population can expand through reproduction.

Currently, that recreational season and bag limit is almost laughable - a 66-day (June 1-Aug. 5) recreational season and a two-snapper bag limit.

But under the congressional mandates and court orders (a result of the CCA and enviro lawsuit), NMFS sees no other way to address the issue.

"To comply with the court order, we have to stay within the TAC (total allowable catch)," Crabtree said. "We just don't have much flexibility."

*Numbers in question*

*The status of the Gulf's red snapper population is, and will remain, a hugely controversial topic. *

*All decisions on managing red snapper are built around red snapper stock assessments. And until someone is able to drain the Gulf of Mexico and count every individual snapper, any assessment is going to be a best guess.*

*Some Texas anglers believe the Gulf holds a lot more snapper than NMFS stock assessments indicate and that current methods of assessing the snapper population and snapper harvest by recreational anglers give a distorted view of the fishery.*

*NMFS officials concede they would like to have much more data and better data on the snapper population.*

*Current surveys of recreational harvest have "problems," Crabtree said. And down the road, recreational anglers who fish in federal waters may well have to obtain some kind of federal permit so researchers can have a better database from which to survey harvest.*

*But better gauging the population status of the red snapper in the water seems to be the most pressing problem.*

*"The real key is fisheries-independent surveys - research on the water," Crabtree said. "But money - funding - is an issue."*

*The next red snapper stock assessment will begin in 2009 and almost certainly not be completed or vetted until 2010.*

*But even if the next snapper stock assessment shows an improvement in the snapper population, increases in the TAC (and liberalization of snapper regulations) wouldn't come until 2011 at the earliest.*

*Commercial concerns*

The issue of commercial snapper fishing was the elephant in the room at the Friday meeting.

In the mid-1980s, when federal managers first set an annual quota for snapper harvest, that total allowable catch was divided between the commercial and recreational sectors.

Based on best-available data from 1979-1986, the commercial sector averaged taking 51 percent of the snapper harvested from the Gulf, while recreationals took 49 percent. And those figures have been used to allocate the TAC since then.

Some recreational interests contend the commercial snapper fishery needs to go. The economic benefit of recreational snapper fishing far outweighs that of the commercial fishery, they argue. Get rid of the commercial snapper fishery - or at least cut way back on its annual allocation of the TAC - and put those fish into the recreational allocation.

That would allow the recreational season to run longer and maybe even increase the bag limit.

This idea is not popular with the commercial sector, of course.

But a push to begin considering modifying the current red snapper allocation between commercial and recreational fisheries is under way. And it almost certainly will gain steam as the recreational sector is squeezed tighter and tighter.

*That battle will get ugly.*

But that's nothing new where red snapper are concerned.


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## [email protected] (May 24, 2004)

Thank you Mr. Smarr. Yes the steak was very good, dry aged Angus ribeye as I recall.


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## Hughoo222 (Aug 24, 2005)

!troll! trollin' trollin' trollin'......


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## jim smarr (May 21, 2004)

No doubt Hughoo222 we are now seeing the "Mushroom Cloud" due to misguided Lawsuit. People in the hinter lands will know what we know soon how they "Lost Their Red Snapper Season". Questions will be asked. The answer will come. The Natives will be irate.

People will revolt once the truth is out. "You can lie to some of the people some of the time but not all of the people all the time". Quote from a famous Politician


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## Angler 1 (Apr 27, 2005)

Sometimes when you try really hard to help you actually make things worse. Maybe we need to go at this at a very different angle instead of butting heads. There is always more than one way to skin a cat, lets find the other way becuase this one is just not working out. The NMFS wants accountabilty on the fish and there is only one way for that to happen." IFQ's" and Snapper Stamps. They are after control period and are not going to stop until the get it.


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## Bellyup (May 22, 2004)

Perhaps the best thing would be for all states to develop an United Front and with all the states standing firm on managing their state waters regardless to what the feds want. Then the Feds couldn't blame one state or the other, nor could the feds justify screwing another state. Perhaps this would keep it simple. Keep the fed regulations out of states waters. When looked upon this way, the feds are screwing everything up--federal and state waters.



Angler 1 said:


> Sometimes when you try really hard to help you actually make things worse. Maybe we need to go at this at a very different angle instead of butting heads. There is always more than one way to skin a cat, lets find the other way becuase this one is just not working out. The NMFS wants accountabilty on the fish and there is only one way for that to happen." IFQ's" and Snapper Stamps. They are after control period and are not going to stop until the get it.


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## kweber (Sep 20, 2005)

what about a boycott on snaper?
dont buy it at the fish house or restaurants.
swords got a lot of publicity from this.
of course other countries will still suck up much of GOM red snapper and I'm just rambling.....


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## justhookit (Sep 29, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> Attempt to hijack? Jim says Texas has lost 1.5 million license sales and I posted that saltwater license sales are setting all-time records. How is that hijacking?


I don't know the time frame those numbers come from, but up until last year those of us that fished offshore did not need a fishing license.

That would certainly account for record sales.


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## jim smarr (May 21, 2004)

IFQ's in the Recreational Sector would allow you to fish once every three to five years.
It would be a complete train wreck.

We need catch cards filled out and turned in. We are working on taking the quess work out of what we are catching. We have to have hard numbers. I mentioned this to Dr. Crabtree last night. I have talked to TPWD about the plan. Anything to get a handle on the data and savew our sport. We need to show the Gulf is producing whatever the number in reality is to effectively manage it. No quess work hard numbers. 

To correct the problem I believe fishermen would fill out a catch report and drop it off on the way in. We are serious about plugging the data black hole in Texas. We are being pro active.


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## Hughoo222 (Aug 24, 2005)

It is very clear guys...better science!! Crabtree said it and we screamed it...PLEASE understand that most of the panels that handle the science and info are loaded with enviro plants and CCA people where the gulf is concerned...they are presenting the rules and science for approval!!! Ding ding ding...we are getting hosed from the inside. The CCA suit just mucked things up and made the fight more spread out. Mont got a good look at the belly of the beast and has given a full account of what he saw....we are being beaten with science and agenda's driven through NMFS channels by the enviros and cca.

Reefs will help and we have a team together including some of the world best scientists at reef fish life cycles and habits, from Texas Universitys I might add...we will get a ground up study of how it all works and gain info for future use. The reefs will also bring Clout to Texas saltwater fishing....again, look at Alabama..40 miles of coast and 40% of the snapper catch! 

More reefs and better science will be a good start.


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## Angler 1 (Apr 27, 2005)

If NMFS really knew how many fish where actually caught then we would have a big TAC. I think reporting all fish caught would actually help. Jim Catch Cards or Fish Logs should be mandatory for ALL anglers, it would only help prove the amount of Snapper we have coming out of the gulf. Again butting heads with NMFS is not working, get them to agree to show the REAL numbers of fish and the problem will solve itself.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

I am shure we can provide pictues and videos of Snapper from our area. Thats easy

Charlie


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

In fact me and Rik Jacobsen talked about this very thing a few days ago. How about the exposure to the news media and show them how there are no fish in the gulf. Take them along and expose NMFS for the false manufactured info or data they are using.

Charlie


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## oldtrackster (Jul 20, 2007)

*Super Combo*

The data on Saltwater licenses is likely skewed horribly. I live in Central Texas and follow Snapper issues here. I grew up on a sheep ranch (yes I am a reformed sheep hearder thanks to the democrats another long story) and thusly fished and hunted a great deal. Virtually every male and most females in the circle I run in have a Saltwater license because we all purchase the super combo license as the cost works out and its simple. However, out of the dozen or so people I hunt and fish with there are only two of us that ever smell the salt spray.



[email protected] said:


> Dear Jim Smarr,
> 
> I guess I had to assume that since you are discussing Gulf of Mexico red snapper here the inference would be loss of saltwater fishing license sales. (_"Texas has lost 1.5 million license sales")_
> 
> ...


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## Hughoo222 (Aug 24, 2005)

...not to mention that to go snapper fishing this year you have to have a Texas License, how many party boat fishermen do you think have bought a license this spring alone.


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## [email protected] (May 24, 2004)

*License sales and the growth of saltwater fishing in Texas: *

-License sales in Texas increased 286,650 between 2001 and 2006 (25% increase)

-Growth of saltwater angling in Texas could be expressed as 4,777 new anglers per month 2001 to 2006.

-The number of days spent fishing Texas saltwater has risen 50% 2001 to 2006.

-Saltwater fishing tackle sales in Texas increased 32% ($319,000,000) contributing to an increase of $63,000,000 in tax revenue.

-5221 jobs directly attributable to the growth of saltwater fishing in Texas were created during the period 2001 to 2006 which is an annual rate of approximately 1040 new jobs.

-Annual economic impact of saltwater fishing in Texas was calculated to be $1.7 billion in 2006... $0.4 billion greater than in 2001.

-By comparison, saltwater fishing declined 18% in both Florida and California, the historic giants of the saltwater fishing world.

-Within the other Gulf of Mexico states, Louisiana declined 42%, Mississippi declined 38%, Alabama declined 8%.

-Of the other 23 states that support saltwater angling in the US, only four showed positive gains between 2001 and 2006... Delaware, Georgia, Hawaii and Maryland.

-Nationwide, saltwater angling declined 8% during the period 2001 to 2006.

_Source: The Status of Saltwater Fishing in Texas - written by Dr. Larry McKinney, Director of Coastal Fisheries Texas Parks and Wildlife Department._


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## Snap Draggin (Nov 11, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> *License sales and the growth of saltwater fishing in Texas: *
> 
> -License sales in Texas increased 286,650 between 2001 and 2006 (25% increase)
> 
> ...


Soooooo what's your point? Those are the statistics now, but I bet they will change drastically in a year or two as long as NMFS is forcing their bureaucratic BS down recreational fishermen's throats. Not to mention the rising cost of fuel thrown in the mix.


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## [email protected] (May 24, 2004)

Yep... those are the statistics as of 2006.


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## gtxfisher (Jun 1, 2008)

*Those numbers are misleading!*

*The license data are probably correct - for ALL SALTWATER.
But, let's face it. Those numbers represent probably 80 percent INSHORE fishermen. NOT offshore snapper fishermen.
*


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## Leo (May 21, 2004)

I think that gas prices will probably do more to save the snapper than any regulations.


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## manintheboat (Jun 1, 2004)

We are getting way off of the point. The op was talking about us losing our state water rights on snapper. This could also lead to rediculous regulations rammed down our throats in the future on other species. Remember the black tip shark regulations they were talking about this winter?


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## 007 (Mar 11, 2008)

I just got back from the meeting. Had lunch afterwards with Mr. Smarr and he wanted me to make sure to tell all of you fellow 2coolers what the CCA guy had to say. He got up to the podium and said "I'm going to give every one on this council a present! 4 minutes of silence." He turned the microphone off and walked away!! Now we know what CCA is doing to protect OUR snapper! ZERO!!


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## Snap Draggin (Nov 11, 2007)

mwb007 said:


> I just got back from the meeting. Had lunch afterwards with Mr. Smarr and he wanted me to make sure to tell all of you fellow 2coolers what the CCA guy had to say. He got up to the podium and said "I'm going to give every one on this council a present! 4 minutes of silence." He turned the microphone off and walked away!! Now we know what CCA is doing to protect OUR snapper! ZERO!!


Yeah, and anyone that joined the STAR tournament is fueling the "silent" machine.


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## hilton (Jan 28, 2008)

*snapper*



[email protected] said:


> *License sales and the growth of saltwater fishing in Texas: *
> 
> -License sales in Texas increased 286,650 between 2001 and 2006 (25% increase)
> 
> ...


Howdy,

This is what was read aloud by Commissioner Parker at the town hall meeting that Congressman Lampson put on a while back. Commissioner Parker gave Dr. McKinney full credit for those figures.

The point he was making to Crabtree is that Texas does not need the federal government to tell them how to manage the fisheries resources here in Texas....TPWD has been quite successful at it - much more so than the NMFS.

He was also trying to point out the economic importance of saltwater fishing to the Texas economy - un-needed and un-wanted federal restrictions will negatively impact these economic figures. *Don't mess with Texas.*

Until the federal government can illustrate that they can responsibly and effectively manage the fisheries, then they need to BUTT OUT.

All the best,
Tom Hilton


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## manintheboat (Jun 1, 2004)

mwb007 said:


> I just got back from the meeting. Had lunch afterwards with Mr. Smarr and he wanted me to make sure to tell all of you fellow 2coolers what the CCA guy had to say. He got up to the podium and said "I'm going to give every one on this council a present! 4 minutes of silence." He turned the microphone off and walked away!! Now we know what CCA is doing to protect OUR snapper! ZERO!!


Oh come on, that didn't happen. Right?


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## 007 (Mar 11, 2008)

Ask Jim when he gets back online.



manintheboat said:


> Oh come on, that didn't happen. Right?


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## Electric Mullet (Mar 18, 2008)

"Support the CCA" ....? How is the CCA supporting us? The didn't even give comment as to the subject. Did a comercial fishing company get to them?


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## 2wahoo (May 21, 2004)

*I absolutely believe it!*

I absolutely believe Jim and mwb007 about CCA. They are without a doubt the enemy of all who fish offshore, just like NMFS.



mwb007 said:


> Ask Jim when he gets back online.


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## 2wahoo (May 21, 2004)

*Not the commercials*

CCA isn't in bed with the commercials. They are in bed with the Ocean Conservancy and are pushing for all offshore fishing to be stopped. They haven't played their entire hand just yet. They bay boys better start watching as well. They're next.



Electric Mullet said:


> "Support the CCA" ....? How is the CCA supporting us? The didn't even give comment as to the subject. Did a comercial fishing company get to them?


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## 007 (Mar 11, 2008)

There was quite a few of the "tree huggin'" types there too! There were more commercial fisherman from Florida talking about gag grouper than there were Texans talking about snapper. Sad! Sad! Sad!



2wahoo said:


> CCA isn't in bed with the commercials. They are in bed with the Ocean Conservancy and are pushing for all offshore fishing to be stopped. They haven't played their entire hand just yet. They bay boys better start watching as well. They're next.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Yes I was there and saw Dr Russel Nelson CCA rep say just that, Im gonna give yall four free minutes or something like that and walked away.

Charlie


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## Reel magic 3 (May 7, 2008)

What would shark regs look like under fed rules? All sharks.. 1 @ 4 feet per boat?


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## Hughoo222 (Aug 24, 2005)

Nelson got his CCA job after he was fired from his State job in Florida for viewing internet **** at work.....class act cca!

Need I say more? And for the doubters the articles from several newspapers are online.



CHARLIE said:


> Yes I was there and saw Dr Russel Nelson CCA rep say just that, Im gonna give yall four free minutes or something like that and walked away.
> 
> Charlie


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## hilton (Jan 28, 2008)

*nelson*

Hughoo,
Take the high road on this one - it's already been covered b4 on this forum.
Thanks,
Tom


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## texasjellyfish (Jan 23, 2006)

Electric Mullet said:


> "Support the CCA" ....? How is the CCA supporting us? The didn't even give comment as to the subject.


like this,

""We are disappointed by the decision that was made by the TPWD Commission regarding red snapper. We continue to stand by our position that by choosing to adhere to the federal regulations would have been the in the best interest of the resource and this over-fished species," said Robby Byers, executive director of CCA Texas. "With that being said, we are fully prepared to move forward 
http://www.ccatexas.org/CCATexas/NewsBot.asp?MODE=VIEW&ID=162&SnID=747483801&FullStoryArea=NEWSFULLSTORYhttp://www.ccatexas.org/CCATexas/Ne...62&SnID=747483801&FullStoryArea=NEWSFULLSTORY

so thats the silence they had nothing to say


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## Unbound (Jul 12, 2004)

*Sharks! Now you want to keep a shark!*



Reel magic 3 said:


> What would shark regs look like under fed rules? All sharks.. 1 @ 4 feet per boat?


No. The feds would not allow any sharks retained because anglers might mistake them for the endangered porbeagle shark that doesn't even exist in the gulf. :headknock I swear, you couldn't make this stuff up. By the way, remember this was part of the fed's proposal which CCA solidly supported. That's OK. I'm sure that one of the CCA supporters will tell us why CCA's theatrical moment of silence is not an insult to fishermen but for the good of the fish.


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## alwayswrkn (Jun 4, 2008)

Something you guys need to think about also,If the Feds take over state waters,it is against Federal law to keep any Redfish.If they take over,CCA will have to take a big bite of that sandwich.


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## Redsmacker (May 21, 2008)

Could the 42% and 38% declines in Mississippi and Louisiana during the time frame mentioned have anything to do with a little storm named Katrina and the damage it inflicted on the sportfishing fleets of those two states? I would also suggest that the increase in saltwater licenses in Texas is at least partly due to the huge explosion in popularity of kayak fishing in texas coastal waters. As fuel prices get higher there are fewer anglers who can afford an offshore excursion and kayaks have proved to be a much less expensive alternative. The fact remains that without proven empirical methods of determining the red snapper population we are left to hypothesize and speculate on unproven numbers.



[email protected] said:


> *License sales and the growth of saltwater fishing in Texas: *
> 
> -License sales in Texas increased 286,650 between 2001 and 2006 (25% increase)
> 
> ...


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## Hughoo222 (Aug 24, 2005)

Yup....can't wait to see the spin on that one.


alwayswrkn said:


> Something you guys need to think about also,If the Feds take over state waters,it is against Federal law to keep any Redfish.If they take over,CCA will have to take a big bite of that sandwich.


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## Levelwind (Apr 15, 2005)

CHARLIE said:


> Yes I was there and saw Dr Russel Nelson CCA rep say just that, Im gonna give yall four free minutes or something like that and walked away.
> 
> Charlie


Yep. Me too. He sure as heck did. And unless I missed it, he didn't announce himself as CCA. If he did, it was very quietly. I'm not at all surprised, only that he put himself on the list to begin with. CCA do not want their comments "on the record" and subject to scrutiny, and they do not want Texas offshore anglers to know what they are whispering (and emailing) the commission. I'm sure Dr. Nelson is a fine person (I have friends who think highly of him) but aboveboard is not how CCA rolls these days.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Well no one has mentioned the motion that was made to basically force Texas to ahere to the federal rules. Mr Richers of Texas asked to table the motion. It was tabled by a close vote. It will be on the agenda at the next meeting in Florida. Date and time I dont know. There will be a comment period to allow folks to send letters objecting. Info will follow. Comment period begans now. We can at least send letters since most folks are unable to attend the NMFS meeting because they have to work. But I will say this, its sad when there are more fisherman from Florida at the meeting than from Texas.

PS Jim told me about the motion I had left and did not hear it but I was there to see the turnout.

Charlie


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## Levelwind (Apr 15, 2005)

alwayswrkn said:


> Something you guys need to think about also,If the Feds take over state waters,it is against Federal law to keep any Redfish.If they take over,CCA will have to take a big bite of that sandwich.


They'll just exempt redfish. I'll bet that deal is already done.

You guys happen to notice all the laptops in front of the .orgs and all the laptops (and activity) in front of the council members?

A council member offered to support an effort to ban them. Told me the NW region council had outlawed them during meetings.

Not a real "sexy" issue, but one that's hurting us that MAYBE unlike some others, we can win.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Regarding the Key Largo meeting I just checked the schedule and its August the 11th thru the 15th. Thats all I know at this time.

Charlie


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## 007 (Mar 11, 2008)

Yeah. There were more laptops there than I've ever seen at Best Buy!!



Levelwind said:


> They'll just exempt redfish. I'll bet that deal is already done.
> 
> You guys happen to notice all the laptops in front of the .orgs and all the laptops (and activity) in front of the council members?
> 
> ...


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## Captain Randy (Sep 16, 2005)

CHARLIE said:


> Regarding the Key Largo meeting I just checked the schedule and its August the 11th thru the 15th. Thats all I know at this time.
> 
> Charlie


I guess I'll get to dive Key Largo this summer.

Randy


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## Captain Randy (Sep 16, 2005)

Levelwind said:


> Yep. Me too. He sure as heck did. And unless I missed it, he didn't announce himself as CCA. If he did, it was very quietly.


He did say he was CCA

Randy


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## jim smarr (May 21, 2004)

I just got home. Not a good week for Texas at the Council Meeting.

The move is on to force States and Reef Fish Permit holders to follow Fed Regs if they are more restrictive. These people seem to only want to push restrictions instead of working for real solutions. Only one outdoor writer showed up Max Reed.


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## Snap Draggin (Nov 11, 2007)

Thanks again for all your hard work and time Jim, Mont, Charlie and everyone else that attends the meetings regularly. I am screwed during the week because I have to work to be able to afford my toys and gas to keep them going. I wish they would actually come up with a viable solution instead of adding more problems. It is obvious that they couldn't care less if a lot of folks lose everything.


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## jim smarr (May 21, 2004)

Snap Draggin- a check always works- you have done your part by supporting with hard dollars. Thanks as $$$ make our fight easier.


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## 86228 (Apr 28, 2006)

*Stand and fFght*



Haute Pursuit said:


> LA, MS and AL only have state jurisdiction to 3 miles offshore... y'all should have negotiated yourselves a better deal before accepting Statehood like we did. If you had, you can bet your boudain balls you would be fighting to keep it as we are.


La. and Ms. was bought and paid for by the Feds years ago and they had no control in thier state limits. I will say that they need to quit blameing Texans for thier problems and get thier act together and try to control thier own destiny. I saw a group of **** A's get mad at Connie Kallita at a drag race in 1977 and they were close to having his race rig laying on it's side untill the police and Shirley Muldowney started begging for mercy. Don't tell me those La. boy's can ban together and get something done.


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## Levelwind (Apr 15, 2005)

If I had a midnight lump 30 ms off Galveston them boys could keep my share of the snapper. Connie prolly deserved it.


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## Snap Draggin (Nov 11, 2007)

jim smarr said:


> Snap Draggin- a check always works- you have done your part by supporting with hard dollars. Thanks as $$$ make our fight easier.


Thanks for the kind words Jim. I can't be there all the time like you, so I support the cause the best way I can by donations. To quote a good friend of mine and genuinely good person "some folks carry the guns and some buy the bullets"  You carry the big guns for all recreational fishermen, so I want to help buy the bullets to keep you stocked with the ammo. I wish everyone that could help in this way would.


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## Swells (Nov 27, 2007)

Sammie here - the weird dude from SPI - but have y'all ever thought about getting like Ted Nugent and/or some rockers like Los Lonely Boys to have a big benefit for RFA? I mean you could use a shot of about $75K or more, right? Just thinking outside the fish box for a minute ... I know a few bookers and agents but surely there's a pro somewhere in 2COOL. My brother says he can get BB King but I don't think his health is all that good these days ... it would be super cool to have a fund-raiser like that.

At least my heart's in the right place. Ted Nugent has some conservative street cred, ya know? Played for Governor Perry's Inauguration too! Gun rights, fishing rights? Whaddya think?


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## jim smarr (May 21, 2004)

Sammie- You are right -We need to have Fun. This Lobbyist and Fishing Rights stuff is stuffy. 

We need to have RFA Reunions all over Texas. A little Beer- A little Song- A little Food.

I would like to do this style get together.


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## 007 (Mar 11, 2008)

I'm in! I'm always up for a party, especially for a good cause!



jim smarr said:


> Sammie- You are right -We need to have Fun. This Lobbyist and Fishing Rights stuff is stuffy.
> 
> We need to have RFA Reunions all over Texas. A little Beer- A little Song- A little Food.
> 
> I would like to do this style get together.


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## Hughoo222 (Aug 24, 2005)

Sammie, we have, I and my wife work in the music industry (one of my several jobs/companys) and the idea has come up. I have connections to LLB and others but we need to get down the road from the banquet before we do anything else. I have actually toyed with doing a big show but there are lots of logistics and other similar events to contend with. i am sure you are familiar with Del Castillo from the Valley, now in Austin..I have been working with Rick Del Castillo a lot lately..in fact I drove him to the ER the other day cause I showed up at his house and he was having a heart episode...lets just say he owes me one.lol

Fundraising is a lot like fishing...it takes lots of casts to hook a good one. The real problem is finding suitable artists who like to fish or "get" the mission. As someone who has been around the industry all my life and being married to an event planner/fund raiser gives us a distinct inside advantage....but again unless they are playing for free or a reduced rate it becomes tough on the math end of things....you have to involve some heavy hitters. And LLB are good but on the way down the ladder due to internal issues, poor money management and personal issues...trust me. Ted is ok musically but he draws way too much fire with his mouth and draws a crowd who likely won't spend much moola either. Pat Green, Corry morrow, REK and the "clones" have been saturated in Texas for some time so their draw is also somewhat diminished. i think it will take a bigtime artist to pull it off....you know Billy Gibbons is in negotiations to produce my uncles next record and he has been playing several shows with him including an Austin City Limits taping a couple months ago. Now ZZ Top would do the job, very Texas and timeless. Hmmmmmmm

According to an interview on Chicago Public Radio with _You're Gonna Miss Me_ director Kevin McAlester (7/24/07), *Erickson is currently working on a new album with Billy Gibbons*, singer and guitarist of ZZ Top, and a longtime admirer of Erickson; Gibbons' earlier band The Moving Sidewalks had a hit with "99th floor", which was a tribute of sorts to the Elevators." -wiki



Swells said:


> Sammie here - the weird dude from SPI - but have y'all ever thought about getting like Ted Nugent and/or some rockers like Los Lonely Boys to have a big benefit for RFA? I mean you could use a shot of about $75K or more, right? Just thinking outside the fish box for a minute ... I know a few bookers and agents but surely there's a pro somewhere in 2COOL. My brother says he can get BB King but I don't think his health is all that good these days ... it would be super cool to have a fund-raiser like that.
> 
> At least my heart's in the right place. Ted Nugent has some conservative street cred, ya know? Played for Governor Perry's Inauguration too! Gun rights, fishing rights? Whaddya think?


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## linemanted (May 6, 2008)

new to salt water fishing I wanted to do my part and join CCA. After reading all of this I feel like I just supported PETA.When did CCA change or have they always been this way. Are there any group around DFW that truly support the Fisherman?


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## newman (May 21, 2004)

Top of the page under Blue Water Links clock on "Protect your Fishing Rights, Join RFA Today"


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## newman (May 21, 2004)

Aloso there are lots of "Tuna Heads" in the DFW area that get together at BPS every month or 2.


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## Swells (Nov 27, 2007)

Hughoo222 said:


> Sammie, we have, I and my wife work in the music industry (one of my several jobs/companys) and the idea has come up. I have connections to LLB and others but we need to get down the road from the banquet before we do anything else. I have actually toyed with doing a big show but there are lots of logistics and other similar events to contend with. i am sure you are familiar with Del Castillo from the Valley, now in Austin..I have been working with Rick Del Castillo a lot lately..in fact I drove him to the ER the other day cause I showed up at his house and he was having a heart episode...lets just say he owes me one.lol
> 
> Fundraising is a lot like fishing...it takes lots of casts to hook a good one. The real problem is finding suitable artists who like to fish or "get" the mission. As someone who has been around the industry all my life and being married to an event planner/fund raiser gives us a distinct inside advantage....but again unless they are playing for free or a reduced rate it becomes tough on the math end of things....you have to involve some heavy hitters. And LLB are good but on the way down the ladder due to internal issues, poor money management and personal issues...trust me. Ted is ok musically but he draws way too much fire with his mouth and draws a crowd who likely won't spend much moola either. Pat Green, Corry morrow, REK and the "clones" have been saturated in Texas for some time so their draw is also somewhat diminished. i think it will take a bigtime artist to pull it off....you know Billy Gibbons is in negotiations to produce my uncles next record and he has been playing several shows with him including an Austin City Limits taping a couple months ago. Now ZZ Top would do the job, very Texas and timeless. Hmmmmmmm


Well I can tell you've been in that rodeo, my friend ... that's a realistic answer. By the way kudos on what you're doing!

My heart was in the right place, anyway. I love my fishing, surfing, and music - well besides beer and nice wimmins. Why not combine all at once? -sam


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## linemanted (May 6, 2008)

thanks Chris RFA is on the to do list


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## POC Transplant (Feb 26, 2008)

These guys are the biggest freaking joke ever. Never mind that LA MS and AL gave up their rights to state waters, FL and TX combined comprise about 80% of the coastline on the GOM. Short of LA, they also have the most abundant Red Snapper resources in the GOM. The biggest thing that burns my *** is that the NMFS does nothing, relatively speaking, to regulate the commercial industry. The trawling industry is responsible for 90% of the juvenile Snapper mortality, not to mention the extensive damage they do to the hatchery habitat of these critters. Frankly, I do not see the decrease in snapper populations or size and I have a degree in this field. IF they really want to rebuild the population like they say they do, hit the commercial sector hard. Also, if they hit them as hard as they hit us, 1: they would see more results and 2: I think the recreational side would accept it more. What they are doing is ludicris. I can only hope that this turd head and his henchmen are booted out of office before they totally kill bluewater recreational fishing as we know, well, at least knew, it. We all know they arent gonna stop with snapper. Whats next, Ling? They already got the grouper.

Collin Gee
Texas A&M '07
Port O'Connor TX


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