# Lake Livingston Water Clarity



## GaryI (Mar 18, 2015)

As some of you know, I live mid-lake on open water at the end of the peninsula between the Trinity River and Kickapoo Creek. I have noticed that my white bass fishing success is fairly strongly correlated with water clarity. In my desire to learn more about the lake, I have started taking daily water clarity measurements from my dock. My goal is to understand what factors lead to better/worse clarity. My hope is that an understanding of these factors will help me become a better fisherman and help me prioritize the time that I spend on the lake. For example, if the current water clarity is poor and the influencing factors are not expected to improve soon, it may be a better weekend to focus on golf than catching fish. Although I realize that, for many of you, the catching of fish is secondary to just being able to spend time out on the lake.

Following the recommended practice, I take a water clarity measurement at the same time each day (around noon) using a Secchi disk (see picture - BTW, the fancy PVC paint job is my own artwork). This disk is a simple circular disk with black and white quadrants, and before using one I felt it was a joke that for over 150 years someone named Secchi was actually credited for inventing such a simple device. But, I will say that the disk has shown me that my qualitative observations of water clarity (using dock posts, fishing lure visibility, etc.) were very inconsistent and inaccurate compared to the measurements that I obtain using the disk. The clarity measurement that I obtain using the disk is always about 50% greater than what I would estimate from more crude approaches. So, my apologies to Angelo Secchi - he actually did invent something useful!

Anyway, attached is a figure of water clarity (in ft) over the month of May so far. Also graphed are two other factors which I believe to be primary influences on water clarity - flow through the dam (in cfs), and local rainfall at my rain gauge (in inches). I will update this thread periodically and perhaps together we will learn a few things from it. I have labeled the graph to indicate poor visibility (1 ft or less), medium visibility, and good visibility (2 ft or more). My own anecdotal observation is that there is a tremendous difference in my fishing success when visibility is poor vs. when it is good, per this definition.

Gary


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## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

I like your scientific approach, sincerely! 

I hope the disc is exactly 20cm diameter!!!!


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## McSpoon (May 18, 2016)

Garyl 
I fish almost exclusively mid lake out of the Point Blank side almost straight across from you and I think what you have posted is very informative, please keep posting your results, 
Thank you for taking the time to dabble/ tinker with a water clarity study, very interesting.


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## CroakerSpit (Feb 21, 2016)

Awesome!


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## shadslinger (Aug 21, 2005)

Good job Gary, keep us posted. I hope it goes to 2' viability soon.


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## Ducktracker (Aug 1, 2011)

Gary your just amazing . Keep it coming and keep us posted. Maybe every Thursday. So I can make my weekend plans. Thanks


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## Little Mac (Apr 29, 2015)

Great information. Thanks


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## whsalum (Mar 4, 2013)

Good stuff !!!


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## GaryI (Mar 18, 2015)

Whitebassfisher - so how did you know that it "has" to be 20 cm? FYI, it cost me $24 for an "official" 20 cm stupid plastic disk. I usually would make such a thing myself and save $23, but I thought I would do it right this time.

Shadslinger - If you look at the graph carefully, you will see that the last data point (today) shows that the water has just gone back up to 2 ft clarity. From what I have seen, 2 ft is when the water starts looking green, which you can see in Bill's pictures from his post today.


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## housewolf (Nov 24, 2014)

Very interesting Gary. It's just as I suspected, soon as my tail lights clear the west end of the 190 bridge, the lake starts clearing up :wink:


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## GT11 (Jan 1, 2013)

The other variables that will affect the bite and go hand in hand with water clarity are cloud cover and wind (causing wave action). If there is a cloudy/windy day combined with murky conditions, I stay home but a clear calm day with murky water is still good for catching. I balance the three when gauging my potential succes before heading out.


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## Ken.Huynh (May 30, 2014)

Thanks for sharing


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## McSpoon (May 18, 2016)

I agree with GT11. But I am very happy it is clearing up, and that folks are having some good trips, if it will just hold out till Saturday Morning I will be there and hopefully put some kids on some white bass. 4 more days ............


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## gemba (May 19, 2010)

Whitebassfisher said:


> I like your scientific approach, sincerely!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My first Wikipedia search said 30 cm....

Now I want to buy a 20cm one amazon and move full time to the lake and start making data.

BUT either way I agree that he is now responsible for posting every Thursday for the next five years!


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## shadslinger (Aug 21, 2005)

Gary I should have stated I hope the south end gets to two foot clarity soon.
It's been long boat rides to get where good water is from beacon's!


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## whsalum (Mar 4, 2013)

But it so smooth this time of year Loy---:rotfl:


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## Rather-b-fishin (May 13, 2009)

I love this. Thanks for sharing


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## Drifter022 (Apr 22, 2013)

*Clarity rules*

Great job Garyl. Looking forward to future post.


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## GaryI (Mar 18, 2015)

Per your requests, this is the Thursday mid-lake LL update. It has been a tough week - the average wind speed had been above 10 mph the whole week. And today we have received 3 inches of rain as of 8 p.m. The water clarity will suffer a bit, but if the wind cuts back a bit to allow us to be on the water, I think the white bass will still be biting. I have had no problem finding a lot of WB when I have been able to get out on the lake.

I am trying to plot 3 parameters on the same graph, so I am sure it is confusing. Let me know if you have any questions.


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## Reel Time (Oct 6, 2009)

Good job! About Whitebassfisher, he's just smart that way.


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## Northern fisherman (Sep 16, 2014)

Hats off to you Gary your time, energy, and enthusiasm are appreciated. I can see in the future how this tool could play a role in my decision making as many others as well do not get daily or even weekly trips to the lake and so when the opportunity comes, we as everyone else want to make it count, thanks!


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## Ducktracker (Aug 1, 2011)

Thanks


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## GaryI (Mar 18, 2015)

Updating this morning now that the heavy rain has stopped. Wind is still blowing at 20 mph. I have measured just over 6 inches of rain in the past 24 hours. Clarity has really reduced with the rain and heavy winds. I don't think this weekend will be very good for fishing. sad3sm


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## GaryI (Mar 18, 2015)

I should add that the lake level is at 132.5 ft. The TRA site is not updating today for some reason.


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## GaryI (Mar 18, 2015)

Updated for corrected dam flow (40,000 cfs) this morning.


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## whsalum (Mar 4, 2013)

The pier at the Kickapoo ramp went underwater this morning so the lake must have risen at least a foot, it almost over the bulkhead now and there is more debris coming down Kickapoo than I have seen all year :headknock unfortunately the white bass bite is over for awhile


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## GaryI (Mar 18, 2015)

Now over 10 inches of rain at my rain gauge since this started yesterday.


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## dbullard (Feb 13, 2008)

Just when we thought we turned a corner for better fishing the train derailed. 
Catfish time again.


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## brucevannguyen (Oct 21, 2012)

Dont worry Bruce will bring back a report.:blush: I will think of you guys when I'm fishing in Arkansas tomorrow. My source says weather is not effected up there:blush:


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## Sunbeam (Feb 24, 2009)

Great report Gary. I hope you keep it updated through this rise since it will bump the limits with so much local run off.

88,000 today. The stilling basin at LLD is calling you Bruce.


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## brucevannguyen (Oct 21, 2012)

Heck no SunBeam. I'm already on the road to Arkansas.:blush:


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## GaryI (Mar 18, 2015)

Lake today (Saturday) is in much better shape than I would have thought, given all of the rain and flooding. More recreational boat traffic today than I have seen in some time. The lake level is higher than it has ever been, which may prevent some of you from launching. But here at mid-lake, there is little debris in the water and visibility is about 1.25 ft. Not great but fishable. I think that it helps that this flooding impact was from local rain, where the runoff into the lake is probably cleaner than it would be coming down from Dallas. 

I caught and released about 20 WB in about 30 minutes of fishing. The fish were scattered and you have to look hard to find small schools. If you don't drop the slab right on them, they won't find it.


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## dbullard (Feb 13, 2008)

awesome news


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## housewolf (Nov 24, 2014)

GaryI said:


> Lake today (Saturday) is in much better shape than I would have thought...


That's great news Gary, thanks. I spent the day cooking and rerigging all my fishing poles. I may go out tomorrow and give it a try.

Thanks again!


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## GaryI (Mar 18, 2015)

Lake is quickly getting back to shape. Level is at 132.3 ft and clarity is not bad.


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## Ducktracker (Aug 1, 2011)

Thanks Gary, I'm a bank fisherman on holidays but keep the reports coming.


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## tbone2374 (Feb 27, 2010)

GaryI said:


> Lake is quickly getting back to shape. Level is at 132.3 ft and clarity is not bad.


 Looks like you need a taller chart, for the rainfall,26th and 27th. lol:bounce:


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## GaryI (Mar 18, 2015)

1.5 inches of rain this morning. Probably more before the week is done.


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## whsalum (Mar 4, 2013)

I GOT CAUGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THIS ONE , THE FISHING JUST GOT BETTER :rotfl:


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## pYr8 (Apr 17, 2012)

Excellent work, Gary! Thanks for taking the time & putting forth the initiative.
I've got a B.A.S.S. Nation tournament this Saturday and water clarity is often a factor for black bass catching on LL.


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## Ducktracker (Aug 1, 2011)

Great work Gary!


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## whsalum (Mar 4, 2013)

The water looks a lot muddier here at the camp this morning. I think it is a combination of a good rain and some strong westerly winds that came with yesterdays thunderstorms. Hope it clears up quickly.


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## GaryI (Mar 18, 2015)

Here is the weekly Thursday update, especially for you weekenders. The WB fishing in the lake is holding up well, considering we have had over 13 inches of rain in the last week.

Bill, I thought the water mid-lake looked muddier today too, but when I did the clarity measurement, the clarity had not decreased. And the fish bite this afternoon seemed just as good as yesterday, to me anyway. 

I thought that the more that I do these measurements, the better I would get at guessing the clarity just be looking at the water, but that has not been the case so far.

FYI, as tbone noted, several days this past week the rain has been over 3 inches so the chart is not entirely accurate with the top of the bars cut off. But since I am using the same left vertical scale to measure clarity (in ft, not inches), I didn't want to reduce the scale and make the important clarity measurement harder to read.

Gary


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## housewolf (Nov 24, 2014)

GaryI said:


> Here is the weekly Thursday update, especially for you weekenders...


This _weekender_ certainly appreciates it


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## shadslinger (Aug 21, 2005)

Thanks Gary, feel free to come to beacon bay to take clarity measurement.
The white bass were acting like they were starving this morning on the south end.

The subjective assessment of water clarity is tricky.
But I would guess it's about good enough to catch white bass on the south end!
The west side of the south end is still off color and the mid lake area in the middle to west side is muddy as well.


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## whsalum (Mar 4, 2013)

I took a trip out yesterday after my morning trip just looking around. There was a mud line that almost bordered the river, The west side of that line was muddy as heck, the east side looked surprisingly fishable.


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## GaryI (Mar 18, 2015)

Shown below is the latest (and last) weekly update of my LL clarity measurement. The measurements show a significant decrease of clarity in the past week. I believe that this is due to the impact of the reduced inflow from the Kickapoo system at my location, which means that the Trinity River clarity is the dominant factor.

Today will be the last weekly LL water clarity update that I post. I will keep doing measurements and tracking trends, so if you want to know the latest clarity at my location, just PM me. Throughout the last month of taking measurements, tracking trends, and comparing with daily satellite photos (MODIS Today site), I have learned a lot. And one of the most important things I have learned is that a lake as large and complex as LL cannot be defined by a single clarity measurement at my house. If you are planning to fish in my backyard, my measurement it is probably useful. Otherwise, I think I do more harm than good by possibly misleading someone about lake clarity who may be planning a trip to another part of the lake such as Pine Island or up one of the creeks.

The area where I live, mid-lake between the Trinity River channel and the Kickapoo Creek channel, is particularly complex because of the influence of the interaction between these two systems. A good example is the attached satellite picture from June 7, which shows the western half of mid-lake clouded by the Trinity and the eastern half of the mid-lake relatively clear because of the Kickapoo system. In fact, I often can clearly see the demarcation lines between the muddy and clear water from my back yard (see picture) which represents a bit of a tug of war between these two systems over the mid-lake clarity. By the way, the flow values shown on the pictures are actually the flow downstream of the dam at Goodrich. I cannot find a direct measurement of the in-flow at Trinity, although I know that the TRA tries to match the dam outflow with the lake inflow, so the values shouldn't be too far off.

Of course, at times of low Trinity flow (see Oct 4, 2015 picture) the whole lake is usually clear, and likewise at times of high Trinity flow the whole lake is usually muddy (see March 20, 2016 picture). However, there are exceptions. On the day of maximum dam outflow for the past 20 years (see picture of March 28, 2016) the eastern half of mid-lake was surprisingly clear due to the huge volumes coming into the lake from the Kickapoo system. I say "Kickapoo system" because I also am including the impact from Rocky Creek and Sandy Creek. The Kickapoo gauge, which is upstream of Rocky Creek, pegged out at 4,000 cfs that day which doesn't sound like a lot compared to the Trinity, but it doesn't include the downstream Rocky and Sandy Creek contributions. Plus, the flow from the Kickapoo system is flowing through a much smaller and shallower mid-lake area than the Trinity.

I think it is useful for those of you who are serious fisherman to use the daily satellite photos to help supplement your pre-fishing planning approach to where you will fish on the lake. The only problem is that, more than half the time, the lake is not visible because of clouds. A few tips - if you use the MODIS site, LL is on the USA7 map. Also, be sure to check each of the 2 satellites (Terra and Aqua) to see which has the best aerial photo of the lake for that day.

One more thing - in the course of doing this work, I confirmed a phenomenon which is well-known to some but wasn't to me - that often the area over the lake is absent of clouds. Below is one of many pictures I found which show this. The internet will explain why this happens - this note is already too long.

All the best,
Gary


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## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

Wow Gary! Not only water clarity but neat satellite images too!
From what you are saying (not easy to tell just looking with using that tool) there really is a reason for the disk you bought.

PS - Also very interesting about fewer clouds over the lake!


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## Mjhartz87 (Jul 29, 2014)

Whitebassfisher said:


> Wow Gary! Not only water clarity but neat satellite images too!
> From what you are saying (not easy to tell just looking with using that tool) there really is a reason for the disk you bought.
> 
> PS - Also very interesting about fewer clouds over the lake!


im no expert but i do believe the clouds parting from the lake is due to the rising evaporation coming from the water surface. now in the desert (where im from), it can have the exact opposite effect. the moisture evaporating from the lakes water surface would actually condense and form a constant cloud originating from the lake and increasing in size as it hits the dry air that usually had less than 15% humidity. essentially it would look like a volcano spewing ash and the lake being the origin and it would get 20-30 miles in length across the sky.


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## wwind3 (Sep 30, 2009)

Mjhartz87 said:


> im no expert but i do believe the clouds parting from the lake is due to the rising evaporation coming from the water surface. now in the desert (where im from), it can have the exact opposite effect. the moisture evaporating from the lakes water surface would actually condense and form a constant cloud originating from the lake and increasing in size as it hits the dry air that usually had less than 15% humidity. essentially it would look like a volcano spewing ash and the lake being the origin and it would get 20-30 miles in length across the sky.


I've noticed the rains splitting up or quitting at the lake quite a few times...


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## shadslinger (Aug 21, 2005)

Thanks the excellent post!


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## GaryI (Mar 18, 2015)

One more important point, related to the recent LL Fish Advisory.

It is obvious from the satellite pictures of LL that the Trinity River has a direct influence on water clarity from the 190 bridge and above, while below the 190 bridge the lake is often much clearer than the Trinity, especially in the Kickapoo Creek and Pine Island areas. It is not that big of a stretch to extrapolate these clarity observations to the impact of Trinity River contaminants in the main lake. ALL of the white bass samples used in the recent testing which led to the fish advisory were obtained from the main Trinity River channel at or above the 190 bridge. (only 2 of 30 these samples were just above the minimum PCB contaminate borderline). The fact that none of the tested white bass were from the lake south of the 190 bridge is very unfortunate, since the water in the main lake appears to be much less influenced by the Trinity than the water in the main channel north of 190.

FYI, here is the link to the previous fish consumption advisory thread is you are interested:
http://2coolfishing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1777722


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## Little Mac (Apr 29, 2015)

Thanks for the update


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