# Lease prices out of control...



## fletch2000 (May 21, 2004)

I'm a factory worker from a working class family. I tend to lean a little to the conservative side of most issues, especially social issues. I voted for George Bush and "probably" will again BUT, I've become increasingly concerned about his real motives with these tax cuts. In my heart I want to trust him but is he giving too many cuts, too many perks to big businesss?

Consider this, I've been an avid deer hunter all my life. I loved hunting the hill country of central Texas and did so untill the price increases of the late 70's and 80's pushed me out! I then settled for a lease closer to home, this meant hunting marginal timber company land but that was OK. I was still was able to pass the tradition on to my kids and spend some quality time with them in the woods. Now I don't have the exact numbers but prices were basicly stable for many years. 

Fast forward to today, the timber companys have recently gone on a tare raising prices the last few years and they are quite "in your face" about their intention to continue this trend. They have pushed East Texas prices to to point of pushing the working man out of hunting all togather! They can do this because there exsists a "waiting list" of big corporate groups they are chomping at the bit to lease your property for a premium price and RIGHT IT OFF as entertainment.

Has anyone else considered the potential impact of this recent trend. Imagine the income lost in licenses, clothing, guns, ammo, all the income and taxes generated by the hunting population. I don't have an answer, but it sure looks like a nasty trend. Any comments or thoughts?

Hope it don't happen! Pat :flag:


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## speckle-catcher (May 20, 2004)

fletch2000 said:


> Any comments or thoughts?


yep.

What does who you voted for have to do with the price of a dear lease in East Texas? You think GWB is out to price you out of your dear lease? Think again.

You think east TX hunting land is that valuable to "big corporate groups"? I don't. If I had the means, I would have not have a lease in East TX.


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## fletch2000 (May 21, 2004)

> They can do this because there exsists a "waiting list" of big corporate groups they are chomping at the bit to lease your property for a premium price and RIGHT IT OFF as entertainment.


This is where I think GWB can help us. Close some of the "loop holes" in the tax laws that allow this to happen. We as working class don't have the resources to take advantage of tax breaks, we just come "OUT OF POCKET"!


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## Moonpie (Jun 20, 2004)

Gave up deer hunting altogether over 10years ago. I flat refuse to pay the prices.
My kids won't be raised as deer hunters either. Gun owners yes, but as hunters no.
It's not just the "big" corporations, it's all the "little" people who'll pay thousands to shoot an over rated goat with good press.


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## Dunc (May 29, 2004)

Want a solution to your pain? Take up bowhunting.


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## Moonpie (Jun 20, 2004)

How does bow compare to gun prices?


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## TX CHICKEN (Jun 4, 2004)

*Bow to Gun*

I hunt near Floresville and pay about half as much to bow hunt as opposed to rifle hunting in the same area. I am paying $2200/year for 450 acres which I am allowed (any # of guests allowed) to hunt year round for hogs w/firearm but deer hunting is bow only. My land owner is very conservative and feels the bow hunting puts less pressure on the deer. We have been lucky enough to keep this lease for 10 years and have made drastic improvements in the deer quality-average weight has gone up 20+lbs and of course bigger racks. Out of state hunts are also pretty affordable if you plan them on your own. I hunt New Mexico public land (rifle hunt)every couple of years and with some research and luck have had some great trips for under $1000. It is also very affordable to do management hunts for does and small bucks on many ranches--we have to keep the kids involved in hunting and teach them it is not the size of the rack that counts but the experience as a whole!!


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## CentexPW (Jun 22, 2004)

Fletch , What Loop holes are you talking about? Just because some business takes a ligitmate deduction it isn't EVIL. Should we take from the haves and give to the have nots? I agree hunting has gotten totally priced out of hand. Im a business owner and I enjoy as you put it " Loop Holes"... I think you need to look at the bigger picture. Just because you are priced out of the hunting market doesn't make it a bad thing. Its a market driven economy. If you were a land owner and someone offered you a premium price for you property would you turn them down , no Im saving this for the little man, I think not. Im sorry about your dilemma, but times change. Sorry if I came across a little hard on you, must be the full moon.

Mike T


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## fletch2000 (May 21, 2004)

*Ouch....*



CentexPW said:


> Fletch , What Loop holes are you talking about? Just because some business takes a ligitmate deduction it isn't EVIL. Should we take from the haves and give to the have nots? I agree hunting has gotten totally priced out of hand. Im a business owner and I enjoy as you put it " Loop Holes"... I think you need to look at the bigger picture. Just because you are priced out of the hunting market doesn't make it a bad thing. Its a market driven economy. If you were a land owner and someone offered you a premium price for you property would you turn them down , no Im saving this for the little man, I think not. Im sorry about your dilemma, but times change. Sorry if I came across a little hard on you, must be the full moon.
> 
> Mike T


Ouch, Brutal, You guy's are tough! *"take from the haves and give to the have nots"*, give me a break! It's not like I'm talking about poor white trash or something. I'm talking about pricing out "MIDDLE CLASS AMERICA". *"Its a market driven economy"* You're right about that and that's as it should be, I just want to compete on a level playing field. I'm not talking about the small business owners. It's the big corporations and the tax loopholes (oops, sorry, there's that darn word again  ) that allow them to drive up lease prices for *pennys on my dollar*, that's my beef!

I'm actually quite surprised at the majority of the responses here. I really thought my views were a little more mainstream than that. Guess I do need a little "reality check". I'm just concerned about a lack of opportunities for my kids and grandkids. If "MIDDLE CLASS AMERICA" gets pushed out of hunting because of thinking like this, *"Just because you are priced out of the hunting market doesn't make it a bad thing"* it is indeed, a bad thing.

You guys are killing me.   See ya, Pat :cloud:


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## fletch2000 (May 21, 2004)

*ns*

Oh yeah, nice buck TX...


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## speckle-catcher (May 20, 2004)

Pat it is impossible to have a market driven economy and have everyone compete on a level playing field. 

It's not loopholes that allow large corporations to have hunting leases, it's a legitimate write-off as an entertainment expense. It's loopholes that allow them to get away with shi....stuff like Enron did.

It is true that hunting leases have gotten more expensive, but (and I am a new hunter) I see "meat hunts" posted here and in other places that are very reasonably priced. You may not get that trophy buck you are looking for, but you can get out of the house, in the fresh air and bring home the bacon (or venison).


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## CHunter (May 25, 2004)

I don't think GWB is really doing anything that affects the cost of hunting or hunting leases in the State of Texas. He is guilty of Capitalism but so are we all. I see more and more landowners getting away from the Corporate leases because of many problems. Some I've seen are looking for small groups of locals, so I feel in years to come, the big corporations will still be leasing land but not on the scale that your seeing it. Remember GWB is a hunter and a NRA advocate, at least we'll be able to keep our guns to hunt. Maybe the cost is high right now but things ALWAYS will change. The battle we need to fight is against the liberals out to get our guns, when they take our gun rights away, hunting leases will really be cheap.....LOL


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## CentexPW (Jun 22, 2004)

Pat, Now that Ive had some sleep and coffee I can respond . Im not from Texas , I moved here 30 years ago so I feel I can speak with some authority as being a Texas. As the saying goes, " I wasnt born here but I got here as fast as I could". Anyway paying for a place to hunt was completely foriegn to me, What no public land? About ten years ago I finally gave up on hunting leases for a number of reasons myself. One very large reasom was prices. Had several bad experiences in a row. I also raised three sons and we got to hunt together when they were growing up. Ive had to rely on friends with land to hunt when available. I have a boat , they dont , we trade. And I still go to Colorado about every other year.* Middle Class Americans,* thats pretty much everyone on this board, wage earner, self employed etc. I think CHunter summed it up well *The battle we need to fight is against the liberals out to get our guns... *I hope I didnt come across too brutal this time. LOL

Mike T


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## bbridges (May 21, 2004)

Pat,
I don't think that you are wrong or alone by any means on the issue dealing with over pricing deer leases. In my opinion, I think that we have allowed deer hunting to become so commercialized that the cost placed on "the idea" of killing your monster buck is driving costs up here in Texas to extremes. It is the publicity that South Texas and the reign of the "Muy Grande" over the past decade has costs us today. It really bothers me that so many people will hunt a high fenced game ranch and ride around on their high roller jeeps like they are on a safari in Africa, pick out a buck with a tag in his ear to mark their size and cost and consider it a trophy....go figure. The way I was brought up, this is shooting fish in a bucket. What sport and dignity does this bring. I have very strong opinions on this subject and hope I haven't offended anyone. 

-Brian

I'll step off my soap box now....


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## goinpostal3 (Jul 2, 2004)

*I know how you feel*

Growing up, my family had a lease near Junction which was a year round place for @650 per year. We spent 13 years on that lease until the rancher died and his kids ruined the place. That was 15 years ago. After that we laid out a few years and then hunted on a friend's farm (hogs mostly) for a few years. A couple of years ago we decided to look around again and ended up with sticker shock at the 2000-3000/year prices which were for leases (south and west tx.) that were smaller, more crowded and may or may not have utilities/accomodations. Well, needless to say I, like most people can't or won't pay the equivalent of 200-300/month for a decent lease. $1000/yr. would be fine, but not that much....

I grew up hunting and fishing alot and have many memmories and leared many lessons while doing both.

However, I guess my sons won't get to have the hunting experiences like I've had. I'm sure at some point I'll pay to take them hunting but not for a long term, year round place (at least at current prices) like we used to do.

I love to hunt but can live w/o it. As long as I can still fish and take my kids fishing, I'm fine with it.

Sorry for the long post, but I've been bothered by the price trend for a long time and had the opportunity to get it off my chest....


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## badfisher (Jun 9, 2004)

I'd like to know what corporations are standing in line for a quality lease. I am an outfitter and have had an excellent corporate deer lease available for some time now and have not been able to sell it. The sad part is I have spoken with companies that are paying the same or more money for an inferior piece of property just so that they can keep the place they have had for years.


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## fletch2000 (May 21, 2004)

*out of control...*

Great debate guy's. Like Centex said, Now that I had a good nights sleep I've calmed a bit. I was really reeling after gittin my lease renual in the mail yesterday, OUCH. LOL

No, dang it, here it comes again! :headknock How can they justify the 15 and 20% increases every year, *during a period of virtually no inflation*. Somethings not right here guys, and don't think for a minute these big increases in East Texas are not gona cause some inflation in central and south Texas! It's fixin to get much worse!!

CAN'T LET IT GO JUST YET!!! :doowapsta


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## CHunter (May 25, 2004)

There is a way you can combat this problem........Don't lease from them, don't pay those inflationary prices. Take your business elsewhere. There's an awful lot of land in Texas that you can pay middle income prices for and get mediocre hunting. Maybe you can get a fantastic place for CHEAP but if you don't look it ain't gonna happen. I leased from a guy, the land was cheap and I was on it for years, kicked me off for more money, I found a new place (more expensive-yes) alot better game. The folks he leased to, started a fire, burn't the adjoining ranch house down then he got sued by them. I call it poetic justice. He called me the following year and asked if I was interested. Guess what my answer was???


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## Too Tall (May 21, 2004)

Fletch you are right about inflation but you have it in the wrong order. The Muy Grande fad in S. Texas started the prices going up. Central Texas in the last few years has risen at an astronomical rate. Why, and this is just my theory, city dudes with more money than brains will pay any amount of money to take their friends/clients out hunting on "their" lease. Showing off basically. Some of these people have no business with a gun in their hand. I hunt in S. Texas and pass through Freer and Hebbronville on the way out. You should see some of these "hunters". They still have the tags on their clothes with their guns still in original packaging and the reciept in their pockets. But they have money and money talks. By the way I hunt 1500 acres at $500 a gun for 10 people. Out of the 10 it is fair to say that the most that has been there at one time has been 5. No monsters have been taken but if we wanted to tag out each year we can. It is a year round lease and there are leases down there still under $1000 a gun. Just have to look around. We passed on 2 last year because they weren't significantly better that what we have now.


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## fletch2000 (May 21, 2004)

> Not Fonda Kerry


HeHeHe, luv it! Too Tall Your probably right about the south texas starting this madness. I'm goin to bed before I get worked up again! LOL


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## Sea-Slug (May 28, 2004)

*Leases*

Part of the problem is the out-of-state hunters who are coming in and leaseing places out from under us at ridiculous prices. They came from states that have few deer, or only 1 deer states, some shotgun only states, etc. The wealthy from these states are willing to pay big bucks to kill 4 or 5 deer a year. I dont blame them or the landowners a bit even if I dont like it.


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## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

*Brian, have you ever...*



bbridges said:


> Pat,
> I don't think that you are wrong or alone by any means on the issue dealing with over pricing deer leases. In my opinion, I think that we have allowed deer hunting to become so commercialized that the cost placed on "the idea" of killing your monster buck is driving costs up here in Texas to extremes. It is the publicity that South Texas and the reign of the "Muy Grande" over the past decade has costs us today. It really bothers me that so many people will hunt a high fenced game ranch and ride around on their high roller jeeps like they are on a safari in Africa, pick out a buck with a tag in his ear to mark their size and cost and consider it a trophy....go figure. The way I was brought up, this is shooting fish in a bucket. What sport and dignity does this bring. I have very strong opinions on this subject and hope I haven't offended anyone.
> 
> -Brian
> I'll step off my soap box now....


Been on a 10,000 acre high-fenced ranch in South Texas? I can assure you that it is nothing like "shooting fish in a barrel". For one thing, you may or may not see a buck that you can shoot. 10,000 acres is a huge place, about 15 and a half square miles I think. On the ranch that I was involved with, the distance to the back fence from the front gate was over seven miles.

In any case, the ear tags are there for breeding records or importation records. They do not indicate, "shoot here" as you can have two bucks at 7 years of age that are in no way equal in B&C points.

In any case, the high fenced ranches are their own thing and many people patronize them and they have their place in Texas, like it or not. They lack the camp fire atmosphere that those on year round leases experience, but they appeal to those who don't have time to put into a lease and the man hours that it takes. They pay someone to do that for them.

TH


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## TXPalerider (May 21, 2004)

Get your kids involved in the TX Youth Hunting Program. They can hunt the some of Texas' finest ranches for almost nothing ($50?). And you gety to tag along. Not only will you see some awesome animals. You r kids can shoot some incredible management deer, pigs, etc. We sponsor a hunt on our ranch and take a dozen or so kids every year. Several ranches adjoining us does the same. It's worth a shot.

Raising your kids as non-hunters will do more to hurt than help the outdoor sports in the long run.


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## Slightly Dangerous (May 21, 2004)

Before a person cries about the high cost of deer hunting in Texas they should consider the following:
If you go on a one week vacation to say Cancun or Los Cabos or just about anywhere in the world you will pay well over 3 grand for the pleasure. For the same price or considerably less you can get a year-round hunting lease that offers as many days of pleasure as you wish. You can take the entire family if you want to in most cases and the game you bring home can make a big dent in food purchases. I've seen people line up for a shot at a condo on Lake Conroe (one week a year) and pay $500.00 a month for the darn thing but they won't pay half that for a game lease. Non-corporate ranchers in Texas are in dire need of anything they can get to supplement their income and keep their land. Every day the hill country loses another parcel to the developers because the rancher was going bankrupt and they made an offer he couldn't refuse. Even the deer lease money on high-fenced (which I hate) land is not enough to solve that crisis but it does help delay the inevitable.


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## bbridges (May 21, 2004)

Sponge,

I guess when you put it into terms like that it makes a bit more sense. I still belive for the average joe hunting has really gotten expensive. I myself have found other alternatives. I started hunting type-2 lands a few years ago mainly wing shooting and have been very succesful. I'm not sure what the public deer lands look like but texas has some great type-2 dove and duck hunting.


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## badfisher (Jun 9, 2004)

Another aspect that most people don't account for is that landowners were being taken advantage of and too many deer were being killed or in the case of the hill country not enough does were being killed. Alot of the price increases have come into effect because it weeded out most of the people that would shoot the first little 8 point that stepped out. The thingthat I don't get is for that mentality why would you want to invest in a yearly lease when you could go on a day hunt or management package hunt for a fraction of the cost and probably have a ton of success if you do your homework like you should. I am an outfitter myself and have heard of a ton of people in here talk about not being able to get their kids out hunting. Well the kids are my future and if you are having money troubles and can't afford a lease for them give me a call and I can figure out some way to get your kids on a memorable hunt so that we can all see our grandkids hunt.


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## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

Way to step up dbar6488. Great attitude and willingness to help out others.


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## Bucksnort (Jun 29, 2004)

Hey sponge. your right...it is called priorities. you have to pick and choose...if you can do both then more power to ya...


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## badfisher (Jun 9, 2004)

It is my pleasure infamousJ. There is nothing that I like more than to see a kid shoot their first deer. It is funny, I can take a kid out and they can be expecting to shoot maybee a doe if lucky and a cull seven point can walk out and I can tell them to shoot him and you would have thought that I just gave them a million bucks. The same kids father can be out there and I can put him on a 150 inch respectable deer and because he didn't shoot a 175 inch deer with drop tines he goes home ******. Maybee I need to just cater to kids. Would be much more fulfilling.


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## CHunter (May 25, 2004)

Thats what kills me too dbar is the amount of people that EXPECT a trophy. I have always taken the deer that I want with meat in mind. I have found that I have the same feeling of gratitude of a successful hunt no matter what size the deer.


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## badfisher (Jun 9, 2004)

I have to admit that I have gotten addicted to "horn" hunting but it is because of the situation I am in. I see hundreds of different bucks every year so I naturally want the largest one but I also have to keep my customers in mind. Last year I took a management eight point that would only score in the 120's


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## Shaky (May 21, 2004)

Only a 120 class? heck you would probably have to give me CPR if you told me to shoot it!

I guess I am fortunate as I have access to a family plot of land, but there just isnt many deer and hardly any of your "cull" class. But its a place to take my kids and its close to home so I dont complain. But I may give you a call Dbar a little closer to season, there is just something about traveling to "deer camp" that we dont get with our property. Sitting around a campfire, having the kids play hide and seek out in the woods, good friends, good food, good beverages. It just doesnt get any better in my book no matter what it costs. And if I can only afford a once a year trip, that just makes it more special. Know what I mean?

Shaky


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## badfisher (Jun 9, 2004)

Without sounding like a sales guy if you want to shoot a buck you may want to look at booking pretty soon. I only have a few bucks left to spare.


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## Bucksnort (Jun 29, 2004)

I consider my season successful when I've taken a mature buck. The ticket for me is age...this past season I took a 7 pt that scored in the 120's on my last hunt...I was fired up...sure I saw younger, better deer,,,but just think those deer are going to be better and older this year....and with all this rain...man I can't wait for the bell to ring on this season.


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## badfisher (Jun 9, 2004)

In my case the deer I took was not a really mature deer but he had two things wrong with him. Most deer on our ranches at 2 1/2 have ten or more points and most are starting to get kickers. The second thing was even the second week of October he was already fighting every buck around and I saw him tangle with a 12 point that would score in the 170's an hour before I shot him. In my business if this deer would have broken a main beam on a couple of sure enough trophy bucks it could have cost me thousands so I decided for him that he would not have that chance.


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## Bucksnort (Jun 29, 2004)

There are exceptions to every rule.:spineyes:


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## fishomaniac (May 22, 2004)

I too have been priced out of hunting. If i could spare the money, I don't think I would be able to deduct it as "entertainment" expenses. So why should a large corporation be able too. The majority of them pay a lot lower tax rate than we do, and some of them pay nothing or even take our taxpayer dollars. If they want to entertain, let them pay for it.


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## badfisher (Jun 9, 2004)

Oh they definately pay for it. It is not as if they are getting a free deer lease because they take customers. Look at it as advertising. If you owned a business and you grossed $150,000.00 in one year that would sound like you were doing pretty well but if you look at it and it costs you $120,000.00 to make that amount of money because of advertising, salaries, materials and everything else you only would have made $30,000.00. Huge jump there. Well that is why a big company can do that. Maybee I am biased because of my profession but I don't think that the companies are what is driving up the land prices. Honestly a company is only leasing the large parcels of land and I can guarantee you that if you can't afford a lease now you were NEVER going to have the money to lease that large piece of primo property. The companies aren't going out and leasing up the 150 acres that you used to camp on with your family, it is people working for those companies making more money than you or prioritizing deer hunting where they can budget their money to hunt. As many on here have said, if you really want to hunt you WILL find a way. 

Sorry...off my soap box now.


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## badfisher (Jun 9, 2004)

*land costs*

Oh they definately pay for it. It is not as if they are getting a free deer lease because they take customers. Look at it as advertising. If you owned a business and you grossed $150,000.00 in one year that would sound like you were doing pretty well but if you look at it and it costs you $120,000.00 to make that amount of money because of advertising, salaries, materials and everything else you only would have made $30,000.00. Huge jump there. Well that is why a big company can do that. Maybee I am biased because of my profession but I don't think that the companies are what is driving up the land prices. Honestly a company is only leasing the large parcels of land and I can guarantee you that if you can't afford a lease now you were NEVER going to have the money to lease that large piece of primo property. The companies aren't going out and leasing up the 150 acres that you used to camp on with your family, it is people working for those companies making more money than you or prioritizing deer hunting where they can budget their money to hunt. As many on here have said, if you really want to hunt you WILL find a way.

Sorry...off my soap box now.


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## Bucksnort (Jun 29, 2004)

well,,,you could always win the lottery...:tongue:


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## Galveston Yankee (May 24, 2004)

Bucksnort,

I've been trying to do that for 10 years! (lol)

Anyway, my wife and I have been hunting east Texas for ten or eleven years. We were lucky for a while when we hunted around Buffalo and only paid for our share of supplies. We hunted up around Woodville on 14,000 acres for a couple of years for only $1,025 per year. We now hunt on 2,600 acres for about $435 a year. Year round lease with plenty of hogs (which you can't see because of the trees). The deer aren't what you can get in south Texas, but they fill up the freezer just the same.

Thing is, for us it isn't a matter of trophy hunting, although I sure would like to see king of deer walk out. We use this as our escape, vacation from the island, get away except during the summer because it's too hot. There's no running water (just me running for water), no electricity unless you've got a generator, live in the camper, have a blast!

It's all a matter of perspective.

You guys have a good hunting season.

Tom

"Can you tell me where
All the money went
We're not broke
But we're badly bent"

the tractors


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## JDS (Jul 14, 2004)

This trend was going on long before Bush became President. Over the last 10 years, prices of leases have easily tripled in south/central Texas and with more and more high fenced places, subdivisions, etc, it will only get worse. It is not the same as when I was young. It is a shame that some of our children will be priced out of hunting, and ultimately lose touch with the land. Think how much more power this gives the wacko groups like peta. It is a crying shame, and the kicker is that most members of these big corporations don't care anything about hunting, or the animals they shoot.


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## Bucksnort (Jun 29, 2004)

JDS, your exactly correct...big corps only care about the mighty dollar,,,thats why they take clients and thats why they don't care what the client shoots...I've never seen a piece of property get better becuase it was leased to a company. Most of the time they are shot out when the company leaves. I'm sure someone knows different....but I would bet more ranches are left barren over flurishing. Yank it sounds like you are having fun and doing it up right. Chances are though you will never see the king of deer for only 435.00.....that kinda deer will cost you 10,000.00 and the price is going up. You don't need skill and knowledge to bag ya a big one.....just mucho denero


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## Barnacle Bill (May 21, 2004)

We (5 of us) pay $1,250.00 per gun for a 700 acre year around lease in Lampasas.


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## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

I have seen what corps do on their hunts. Had a friend who ran them off a ranch after a banker shot a cow moving in the brush. Pathetic.

Most of the ranches that just lease out to corps dont care about the wildlife on them. Only the managed ranches that provide guides and biologists in the mix will keep the corps in check and impose very heavy penalty fees when they screw up. If a person is managing a deer herd and one wrong buck is taken they can screw the management plan for up to 5 years or more. It is a very specific management plan for those wanting 200 class deer.

Barnacle Bill, your price sounds about right. Per acre around that area runs anywhere from $6 - $10 an acre and yall are at about $9 an acre total price. I have 60 acres 9 miles west of Lampasas near Nix that I havent seen in 4 years. I let a person hunt it free and watch the place for me. Not that there is anything to really watch anyway. It's for sale to!


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## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

I hunt and grew up and live in east Texas. We lease land from LP. Most of the large timber companys are a thing of the past. They all will be gone in ten years. Most of it is due to restrictions on cutting in the US,and Canada flooding the market with lumber. The only thing that might save a few is that the price of lumber went up 40% in the last six months. Canadian companies flooded the market a few years to drive out the competition and raised the prices when they seemed fit. This is called dumping, and it was Clinton that did nothing about it. Not to make this about politics, but you brought up Bush. It was done before he got into office. I watched every lumber plant go belly up under Clinton. That put thousands of people out of work. 

The answer to why the timber company jacked the prices up. They have sold most of the land they own, but not the trees. They have went into agreements with investment groups with the land. The lease I am on is run by LP but the land is owned by some one else out of New York. This is not the first time this has happened. In the early eighties Japanese investors bought land in much of east Texas only to sell when the market fell. Timber land is used to make money, when one lease goes up they all will. Or lease went up a dollar an acre this year and will go up again until we decide it is not worth the price. It is a market driven price. If you have prime land they will make you pay for it. It is still cheap compared to west or south Texas, but timber and land owners will price out hunting in a few years.


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## JDS (Jul 14, 2004)

Jolly Roger,

Unfortunantely, it is about politics, and clinton ( I can't even stand to capitalize it ) did nothing to help the outdoorsmans cause, or much of anything else for that matter.


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## CHunter (May 25, 2004)

JDS....your right about that. If Kerry gets elected, he'll be doing the same thing and also to lots of fishing places with his alignment to alot of these radical groups. He doesn't care, he has lots of money to hunt and fish where he wants but us poor middle and low class people, he won't help. Beware the politician that says he's here to help you.


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## badfisher (Jun 9, 2004)

Bucksnort, you say it will cost you $10000 to shoot the king of the woods but if you guys look on the classifieds I have some on there for cheap and one of you said your kids were getting priced out of hunting...well email me at [email protected] and I will make it affordable for ANY kid to hunt and I guarantee they will have the opportunity to be successful.


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## badfisher (Jun 9, 2004)

It has been mentioned several times in here that companies are lined up for corporate leases well I have a great one for the right price and need to get rid of it so if you want to keep them away from your property then send them my way


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## wampuscat (Jun 30, 2009)

You could leave out the dallor amount and this thread could be from 30, 40, maybe even more years back. I remember people complaining about being priced out, when family leases, in south, Texas hit $125. Back when land was about 50 bucks an acre. Later when family leases hit around 350, they started to go to a per gun Price to lower the cost. That was to me a sad error, leases going from family to per gun. Now with land prices from 1,000 to 3,000 an acer. The lease prices still seem to be the price of a few acres. Having a lease will always be more of a priority to some than others. I remember people complaining about being priced out when family leases hit 125 bucks. And the high prices have been blamed on corporations for decades.


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## StinkBait (May 31, 2004)

Holy time travel batman!


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Didnt read all the post but its like this. Have you checked the price increases over the years on everything else. its out of sight. Deer leases have probably increased less than everything else.


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## Bottomsup (Jul 12, 2006)

The standard of living in this country is on a down hill slide. Enjoy what you can while you can.


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## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

wampuscat why did you bring up a 10 year old thread?

TH


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## rut-ro (Oct 12, 2008)

Trouthunter said:


> wampuscat why did you bring up a 10 year old thread?
> 
> TH


It's throw back January


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## wampuscat (Jun 30, 2009)

*oops*



Trouthunter said:


> wampuscat why did you bring up a 10 year old thread?
> 
> TH


 Just realized that, was trying out a new cell booster at the ranch, must of hit the wrong butten and ended up on old threads. My bad. At the time thought I was on the current first page.


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## jacksrbetter (Jul 6, 2012)

*deer lease*

Interesting thread, glad you revived it. The first lease I was on in Texas in the early 70,s 20 members on 11,000 acres north of 90, west of Uvalde. It was 150 dollars a year.Only restricions was 1 legal license limit per TPWD. At the time that was a little less than a weeks paycheck. The rancher just tried to get enough from hunting to pay his property taxes(loophole). The lease I am looking at now in S. texas is between 6 and 7 k per year with all manner of restrictions on what can be killed, etc. Add corn, protein(required), accomodations, travel, food, etc. actual costs for season around 10,000 dollars. Before taxes that is about 13 to 14 grand. Which is a little bit north of a weeks paycheck to say the least. A new subdivision is going next to my house. Price range, high 300,s to high 700,s-about 800 hundred homes in there. Selling as fast as they can build them. Without the mortgage interest deduction(loophole) those houses wouldn,t be built and those 1000,s of workers who can,t afford that S. Texas lease wouldn't be able to feed their families either. 
Sum it up, its all relative.


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