# World Cat Fuel Burn



## 20Echo (Jul 21, 2008)

Just an FYI to everyone out there that is boat shopping or considering a boat. I run a 2008 270 Te World Cat with 2008 225 Honda's. This weekend on our Gunnison run we brought a 75 Gallon bladder thinking we would burn a ton of fuel. Our total burn for the trip was 214 gallons! The boat holds 240 in its mains. Now the conditions were ideal, but man, that is insane considering the weight I had in the boat and the run we made. I just thought I would post this with all the talk of extra fuel and with Wahoo season around the corner. If I did it again I would still bring extra fuel of course but that was a welcome suprise.


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## z-cat (Jul 24, 2007)

Did you keep track of the total mileage? Just curious. I've got a small Glacier Bay, with twin Optis 115's that gets about 2mpg.


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## hawgs (May 22, 2006)

What port did you leave out of?


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## Slightly Dangerous (May 21, 2004)

My twin Opti 225's burned 138 gallons on the trip to Boomvang. I figure it at 2.2 MPG for the trip. We cruised at about 30mph the entire trip (not counting the trolling).


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## Chase This! (Jul 20, 2007)

Slightly Dangerous said:


> My twin Opti 225's burned 138 gallons on the trip to Boomvang. I figure it at 2.2 MPG for the trip. We cruised at about 30mph the entire trip (not counting the trolling).


Jerry, that is phenomenal. My record fuel burn to boomvang is 135.

Brandon


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## 20Echo (Jul 21, 2008)

I will have to look at my GPS, I never turned off the engines, really never stopped moving, ran around the gardens, the honeyhole rigs, the intersections and the new floater. And I ran 40mph whenever I was running.


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## Blue Water Breaux (Feb 6, 2008)

Slightly Dangerous said:


> My twin Opti 225's burned 138 gallons on the trip to Boomvang. I figure it at 2.2 MPG for the trip. We cruised at about 30mph the entire trip (not counting the trolling).


that seems like phenomenal gas mileage Jerry, what boat are you running? we have the same ones on our fountain.


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## Slightly Dangerous (May 21, 2004)

270 Sea Pro. My usual fuel burn to BV is around 160 gallons but this trip we had some really nice seas. My boat is pretty heavy compared to some so I figure I could have made 2.4 or better without all the weight. On a side note my mechanic said that 2.2 is not unusual for the later model Optis. He said just keep them tuned right, use Quickclean, and run the dickens out of them.


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## z-cat (Jul 24, 2007)

With my set-up, I get at least 2mpg, at almost any load, or rpm. If I'm loaded right, and cruise at 4000rpm, I can stretch it to about 2.8mpg. What I've noticed with a lot of cats, is that they are underpowered. Step up the hp, and you can back way down on the throttle.


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## 20Echo (Jul 21, 2008)

Glaciers can only take 150's. A World Cat can handle 225's. That is maxed out.



z-cat said:


> With my set-up, I get at least 2mpg, at almost any load, or rpm. If I'm loaded right, and cruise at 4000rpm, I can stretch it to about 2.8mpg. What I've noticed with a lot of cats, is that they are underpowered. Step up the hp, and you can back way down on the throttle.


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## shanker (Jan 15, 2006)

TEAMWILDSIDE said:


> Glaciers can only take 150's. A World Cat can handle 225's. That is maxed out.


I was going to say the same thing. And I think the reason why is that the Glaciers are full displacement hulls and if the boat has more power, it may not work as intended, such as trying to make a Full Displacement Hull plane when it was not designed too.

I :dunno: know though, as I only dream of owning a GB at the moment.


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## z-cat (Jul 24, 2007)

My GB is only 21'. It maxes out at twin 75hp. I put a couple of thousand hours on them. I switched to 115 optis, and both the efficiency, and performance is like night and day. GB only made this boat for a few years, and I don't think they realized that twin 75's wouldn't cut it.


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## Digidydog (Jun 20, 2007)

Our GB does pretty well for fuel burn. We have the 26' with the 140 Suzuki 4 strokes, which of course are glorified 115's, but this weekend we ran to BV and back and never shut them off for a burn of 139.7 gals. We typically average close to 2 mpg as well for some reason at any speed. According to the flowscan - 14.5 gal/hr at 28 - 29 mph at 4500 rpms. And yes... 28 mph makes for a long trip to the floaters, but in rough water i'll take every minute of it!!


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## tunahunter (May 19, 2008)

That is pretty cool! Having the range to get to Gunnison and back with out needing extra fuel in a 28 foot boat loaded down. We haven"t filled up our World Cat since the trip, but I think we brought too much fuel also!


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## Chase This! (Jul 20, 2007)

tunahunter said:


> That is pretty cool! Having the range to get to Gunnison and back with out needing extra fuel in a 28 foot boat loaded down. We haven"t filled up our World Cat since the trip, but I think we brought too much fuel also!


Adam, NO SUCH THING as too much fuel...:biggrin:


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## tunahunter (May 19, 2008)

Yes, I know what u mean! But after reading the thread on carrying the fuel in big plastic drums, I am doing a little wondering.


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## On A Mission (May 24, 2004)

*What am I missing?*

OK,

What am I missing?



TEAMWILDSIDE said:


> This weekend on our Gunnison run we brought a 75 Gallon bladder thinking we would burn a ton of fuel. Our total burn for the trip was 214 gallons! The boat holds 240 in its mains. Now the conditions were ideal, but man, that is insane considering the weight I had in the boat and the run we made.


Approx Mileage to Gunnison 165 mi x 2 = 330 miles

Fuel burn 214 gal / 330 miles = 1.54 mpg

To get 2.0 mpg you would have to add an additional 98 miles (1/3 of total) to the trip total to account for detours, trolling and idling (I doubt that much!)

I am not being an **** just trying to understand what was so insane about less than 2 mpg?

Please educate me....


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## On A Mission (May 24, 2004)

*Spec on World Cat 270TE*

Here are the prop test specs as published from World Cat and Honda

(Note the MPG @ 40mph)

Engines: Honda 225 (Third hole) 
Props: 3 Blade Lexor 15 x 19" 
Test Details: 200 gallons of fuel, 2 people 
Conditions: Light chop. Air Temp was 84.5 degrees. Winds 5 to 10 MPH 
RPM----MPH ---GPH---MPG 
1000 ---5.6 ----1.8 ---3.1 
1500 ---7.6 ----3.2--- 2.4 
2000 ---9.1 ----4.9--- 1.9 
2500 --14.5 ----6.7 ---2.2 
3000 --26.3 ---13.2--- 2.0 
3500 --28.2 ---12.3 ---2.3 
4000 --33.8 ---16.4--- 2.1 
4500-- 38.1 ---25.1--- 1.5 
5000 --42.7 ---30.6--- 1.4 
5500 --47.2 ---34.7--- 1.4 
6000 --51.6 ---43.0--- 1.2


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## Kenner21 (Aug 25, 2005)

Nice numbers, I'm looking at several boats right now. Have you ever fished a World Cat 246?? I've read the ride isn't nearly as good at the 27.


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## 20Echo (Jul 21, 2008)

After much thought I deleted my retort. I will respond at a later time when I can give a politically correct answer that does not offend anyone, I am incapable of that at the moment. stand-by


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## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

The first two were pretty much spot on.


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## Chase This! (Jul 20, 2007)

TEAMWILDSIDE said:


> After much thought I deleted my retort. I will respond at a later time when I can give a politically correct answer that does not offend anyone, I am incapable of that at the moment. stand-by


Ah, man. I knew I should have quoted it....dang.


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## 20Echo (Jul 21, 2008)

Chase This! said:


> Ah, man. I knew I should have quoted it....dang.


lol I copied it, I might just paste it!


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## Chase This! (Jul 20, 2007)

TEAMWILDSIDE said:


> lol I copied it, I might just paste it!


Can I summarize it??? (in my own words, of course







)


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## nelson6500 (Jun 8, 2007)

Kenner21,

I have a 246 SF, And I can tell you that the 27 TE rides alot better than than the 246, But I can also tell you that the 246 rides alot better than most 28" mono hulls in the chop. You know when your going about 30 knots and then you jump that one big wave, And then you come crashing down both props out of the water feeling you get in a mono hull ? Well the CAT hull really softens that blow to where your kidneys will be thanking you at the end of the day.

Matt



Kenner21 said:


> Nice numbers, I'm looking at several boats right now. Have you ever fished a World Cat 246?? I've read the ride isn't nearly as good at the 27.


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## hawgs (May 22, 2006)

TEAMWILDSIDE said:


> After much thought I deleted my retort. I will respond at a later time when I can give a politically correct answer that does not offend anyone, I am incapable of that at the moment. stand-by


I remember it being something about someone taking someone else to school...


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## GhostRider (Jan 11, 2008)

Here's a different school of thought.... just go faster, get there sooner ... fish more ... drink more .... have fun :brew:

Make it home, refuel, do it again ... :brew:


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## WestEndAngler (Jan 30, 2007)

Great numbers... I'm still tossing the idea of purchasing a new 29CC... the 27 is sick! Nice purchase and great fuel economy... Its certainly the best CAT!


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## 20Echo (Jul 21, 2008)

hawgs said:


> I remember it being something about someone taking someone else to school...


Ill save you a spot on the bus


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## hawgs (May 22, 2006)

TEAMWILDSIDE said:


> Ill save you a spot on the bus


If it's a 35MPH max catamaran bus... I'll pass. Thanks for the offer though.


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## Captain Kyle (Oct 1, 2008)

Chase This! said:


> Jerry, that is phenomenal. My record fuel burn to boomvang is 135.
> 
> Brandon


Chase This!
How big is ur boat? What motors do u have i want that setup!


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## 20Echo (Jul 21, 2008)

hawgs said:


> If it's a 35MPH max catamaran bus... I'll pass. Thanks for the offer though.


:rotfl: I'll remember that.


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## Kenner21 (Aug 25, 2005)

A 35 mph catamaran "bus",quad powered fountain,single powered sea hunt ....they're all good as long as they're taking me fishing.


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## sea sick (Feb 9, 2006)

Its been so long that i've been fishing in my boat, i cant remember what the fuel burn is. I think it's 9 mpg. My bad, thats what the truck gets pulling it. some of u guys get some nice fuel burn numbers on some nice rigs.


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## Chase This! (Jul 20, 2007)

Captain Kyle said:


> Chase This!
> How big is ur boat? What motors do u have i want that setup!


I'll sell it to ya. PM me if you are interested.


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## 20Echo (Jul 21, 2008)

For the record my cat will do 55 mph wide open. I cruise anywhere from 35-42. There is nothing "bus" like about a World Cat. 

Kenner, I will see what I can do to help you out. I just sent you a PM.


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## 20Echo (Jul 21, 2008)

On A Mission said:


> OK,
> 
> What am I missing?
> 
> ...


Quick and Dirty:

Well let me commence by saying your skepticism is to be understood after browsing your posts. A World Cat is a big boat. It is only 27 feet long but as anyone familiar with the brand will tell you they handle like boats in an entirely different class. If I were to break the jetties and run a flawless course to Gunny it would be 162 miles (statute). But when offshore fishing (further than 25 or 30 miles) often times you have to turn the boat or change course to get to other spots. In this case those spots cause large variations in your "flawless course" that indeed probably do equal out to 90 miles. You also did not account for never turning the boat off, trolling, maneuvering, etc. There are countless boats that get 2.0 mph. I am sure your 22 ProKat does when it's "on a mission". But very few 27 foot boats have the range, the speed, and the versatility to pull a trip like last weekends off with only in deck fuel. That was my point. Not to be special, not to ruffle your feathers, but to give acknowledgement to a boat that I am proud of. I have been fishing offshore a long time, (background check if you like) and I respect most everyone's opinion, but coming into a thread and questioning what is special about #'S on something you have no experience in is boorish. As is posting your 375th post in the blue water forum calling my boat a bus, when you have never once posted a blue water fishing report nor a picture here? And from what I can tell you actually have a 31 foot fountain? Is it broken? What are its numbers to Gunnison? The last time you responded to one of my posts it was to criticize the way my crew handled our tournament winnings? Hmm&#8230;. I have received messages from several members on this board, whom are all well respected, advising me to disregard this drivel. But I think we all have a duty not too. I invite anyone who has doubts or questions to go test drive a World Cat. They are not for everyone. But they are for A LOT of people. Anyone that is interested in a World Cat is welcome to come take a ride in mine, we might even go fishing. But posting as two have decided here, takes away from the credibility of a community of guys that actually come here to talk the talk when they are finished walking the walk. *JMFO*

*WildSide OUT*


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## 007 (Mar 11, 2008)

Well said WILDSIDE.


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## Chase This! (Jul 20, 2007)

TEAMWILDSIDE said:


> Anyone that is interested in a World Cat is welcome to come take a ride in mine, we might even go fishing.


Daniel, Can I go with you on a ride to Gunnison? I need the full World Cat experience.

Brandon


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## Blue Water Breaux (Feb 6, 2008)

GhostRider said:


> Here's a different school of thought.... just go faster, get there sooner ... fish more ... drink more .... have fun :brew:
> 
> Make it home, refuel, do it again ... :brew:


I like your logic Chris, glad we're on the same page!:idea:


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## hawgs (May 22, 2006)

Chase This! said:


> Daniel, Can I go with you on a ride to Gunnison? I need the full World Cat experience.
> 
> Brandon


Yes, I will need a ride there as well. I need to verify that it will actually go over 35mph like you said it would.


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## Gilbert (May 25, 2004)

Chase This! said:


> Daniel, Can I go with you on a ride to Gunnison? I need the full World Cat experience.
> 
> Brandon





hawgs said:


> Yes, I will need a ride there as well. I need to verify that it will actually go over 35mph like you said it would.


and I will have to go just to make sure its legit


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## On A Mission (May 24, 2004)

*What are you talking about!*

I never made any statements about a BUS as you have quoted below and are clueless as the what half of your babble is about



TEAMWILDSIDE said:


> I have been fishing offshore a long time, (background check if you like) and I respect most everyone's opinion, but coming into a thread and questioning what is special about #'S on something you have no experience in is boorish. As is posting your 375th post in the blue water forum calling my boat a bus, when you have never once posted a blue water fishing report nor a picture here? And from what I can tell you actually have a 31 foot fountain? Is it broken? What are its numbers to Gunnison? The last time you responded to one of my posts it was to criticize the way my crew handled our tournament winnings? Hmm&#8230;. I have received messages from several members on this board, whom are all well respected, advising me to disregard this drivel. But I think we all have a duty not too. I invite anyone who has doubts or questions to go test drive a World Cat. They are not for everyone. But they are for A LOT of people. Anyone that is interested in a World Cat is welcome to come take a ride in mine, we might even go fishing. But posting as two have decided here, takes away from the credibility of a community of guys that actually come here to talk the talk when they are finished walking the walk. *JMFO*
> 
> *WildSide OUT*


I ask about that outlandish fuel burn statement that you started this thread about that was all. To this end you still have not address why you boat "magically" get better fuel economy that what has been published by the manufacturer of the boat or engines.

You stated that you carried 115 gal more fuel that what was published on the prop test which equates to over an additional 900lbs plus ice, fish, gear and people plus and I quote "ran 40 mph the entire time" and yet it was insane that you got less than 2 mpg, and yet the manufacture says 1.4 mpg

Their was never an attack on your integrity or crediablity their was a question asked and it still has not been answered.

Maybe the reasoning is that this thread was started to "PLUG" your sponsor and nothing more?

I am very familiar with the World Cats, Glacier Bay and Pro Kat. I also know Rick and he run a good business with a good product that I am glad that you are happy with.

BUT don't come on the site after only 3 month and start making statements about how your whatever you have MAGICALLY does better that what the published facts are!


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## 20Echo (Jul 21, 2008)

JeeeZZZZ...


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## MXCapt (Jul 17, 2006)

On A Mission said:


> I never made any statements about a BUS as you have quoted below and are clueless as the what half of your babble is about
> 
> I ask about that outlandish fuel burn statement that you started this thread about that was all. To this end you still have not address why you boat "magically" get better fuel economy that what has been published by the manufacturer of the boat or engines.
> 
> ...


Magic???? It is Halloween and this is the time for magic....however, I dont think it's smart to tell anybody what they can and cant say on an open forum...REGARDLESS OF HOW LONG YOU ***-UME HE'S BEEN A 2COOL MEMBER. Actually Daniel has been on this site for at least a couple years and either way does that matter??? NO!

I imagine Daniel is happy w/worldcat and if it was mine I would be too....'outlandish fuel burn stmt'------>sounds to me like someone is drinking haterade. It really matters nothing whether or not you believe him. I was on the boat and since we paid for fuel I know and can verify the truth in his stmts. It was as much a surprise to me as it was to him and either way a darn good surprise on our wallets. Published numbers dont mean **** in real world where results speak louder than words.

Funny how some people try to immediately discredit instead of congratulate on success.


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## On A Mission (May 24, 2004)

*Misunderstanding*

I spoke with Daniel,

I wanted to apologize for any of the statements within my posts that might be question any type of integrity or credibilty to him. Also to anyone who might have taken any offense to the statements withing my prevous posts.

My understanding of his originally post was skewed as to the meaning and purpose!

I did verbally express this to him. My original intent was to understand if there was something that he was doing that would result in getting better fuel ecomony than what was stated and that was NOT what he was expressing.

Dan


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## 20Echo (Jul 21, 2008)

Right-On. Its all good.


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## Chase This! (Jul 20, 2007)

On A Mission said:


> BUT don't come on the site after only 3 month and start making statements about how your whatever you have MAGICALLY does better that what the published facts are!


Hey goob, if you paid attention, Team Wildside is formally Pktdeace, and he has been here for some time. He started Tuna fishing when he was in diapers, which is like a whole 15 years ago.









Glad you two kissed and made up.

Now, Daniel, about that ride................


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## 007 (Mar 11, 2008)

On A Mission said:


> I never made any statements about a BUS as you have quoted below and are clueless as the what half of your babble is about
> 
> I ask about that outlandish fuel burn statement that you started this thread about that was all. To this end you still have not address why you boat "magically" get better fuel economy that what has been published by the manufacturer of the boat or engines.
> 
> ...


DANGIT!!!!! No more "reddies!"


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## Argo (May 21, 2004)

http://www.spectresportfish.com/model_37.php

Im a pretty big fan of cat boats and would get one if my budget was limited to under 31'/under 100k. I like the 27 world cat and fish on one often and also like the 25 glacier bay and fish on one often...... But I think I would have to buy a boat like the one in the link above for myself if my budget was unlimited for a center console type boat.... that thing is awesome, i have been eyeing it for a while....


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## Argo (May 21, 2004)

oh yeah, I forgot to add, quit acting like a bunch of little girls......


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## Gilbert (May 25, 2004)

Argo said:


> http://www.spectresportfish.com/model_37.php
> 
> Im a pretty big fan of cat boats and would get one if my budget was limited to under 31'/under 100k. I like the 27 world cat and fish on one often and also like the 25 glacier bay and fish on one often...... But I think I would have to buy a boat like the one in the link above for myself if my budget was unlimited for a center console type boat.... that thing is awesome, i have been eyeing it for a while....


"700 Mile Loop 
on 1 tank of fuel"


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## davisadams (Nov 7, 2006)

i want a world cat, they are awesome. i have a 26' glacier bay, but i want more speed. anyway, another point on cats...a 27 cat is really the same as a 31 mono. cats are squared off at the front. if you just made it come to a point it would add another 4 or 5 feet.


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## GhostRider (Jan 11, 2008)

davisadams said:


> i want a world cat, they are awesome. i have a 26' glacier bay, but i want more speed. anyway, another point on cats...a 27 cat is really the same as a 31 mono. cats are squared off at the front. if you just made it come to a point it would add another 4 or 5 feet.


HuH ? I think you may want to recheck the logic behind that last comment.


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## Kenner21 (Aug 25, 2005)

GhostRider said:


> HuH ? I think you may want to recheck the logic behind that last comment.


Sounds like good solid logic to me? 

I like the range of the spectre but I hate transom on those boats


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## GhostRider (Jan 11, 2008)

help me out and explain. what i'm reading is that if you were to add a "nose" to the front of a cat, and it were of proportional size, it would add 4-5' ft to the boat. Ok, I buy that. But it's not there, its a hypothetical - so how does it make the a 27' cat like a 31' mono ? as i read this he's added a non existent piece of fiberglass to come up with this analogy.

For fun, check this out.
http://www.fountainpowerboats.com/boats/videos.htm
See what Reggie thinks of cats. Scroll down and watch the video "Cat Killer... The Legend Returns" Reggie has a classic line in here when he says with his southern boy accent '... bye bye pussycats ... '


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## Kenner21 (Aug 25, 2005)

Just to clarify I was being sarcastic


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## Captain Kyle (Oct 1, 2008)

Argo said:


> http://www.spectresportfish.com/model_37.php
> 
> Im a pretty big fan of cat boats and would get one if my budget was limited to under 31'/under 100k. I like the 27 world cat and fish on one often and also like the 25 glacier bay and fish on one often...... But I think I would have to buy a boat like the one in the link above for myself if my budget was unlimited for a center console type boat.... that thing is awesome, i have been eyeing it for a while....


Have u seen the yellowfin 42? That thing is sweet!:flag:


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## Argo (May 21, 2004)

ghost rider, we are talking about a 25-27' cat as opposed to a 30-31' vhull. not 50' and bigger offshore racing boats..... I owned a vhull for a number of years and in the size class I would rather fish on the cat on any choppy gulf day. smooth days go to the vhulls for speed..... as I said I would take that 37' spectre with twin diesels over the cats with an unlimited budget....


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## GhostRider (Jan 11, 2008)

Argo said:


> ghost rider, we are talking about a 25-27' cat as opposed to a 30-31' vhull. not 50' and bigger offshore racing boats..... I owned a vhull for a number of years and in the size class I would rather fish on the cat on any choppy gulf day. smooth days go to the vhulls for speed..... as I said I would take that 37' spectre with twin diesels over the cats with an unlimited budget....


the statement i questioned is that a 27' cat is the same as a 31' mono because of a squared of nose .... now you've stated '... as opposed to a 30-31' vhull' that wording would indicate to me that you believe the two are in different classes. if what he was trying to say is that a 27' cat rides like a 31' mono, then i'd live with that opinion. it was the wording and concept that still doesn't make sense.

if i were to stay center console i might need to give this just introduced Midnight Express a shot


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## Captain Kyle (Oct 1, 2008)

GhostRider said:


> the statement i questioned is that a 27' cat is the same as a 31' mono because of a squared of nose .... now you've stated '... as opposed to a 30-31' vhull' that wording would indicate to me that you believe the two are in different classes. if what he was trying to say is that a 27' cat rides like a 31' mono, then i'd live with that opinion. it was the wording and concept that still doesn't make sense.
> 
> if i were to stay center console i might need to give this just introduced Midnight Express a shot


HOLY ****. I would sleep on the deck of that in a sleeping bag to own one of those! Who needs a house. That is the coolest boat i have ever seen!!!!:cheers: Green to u bro!


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## davisadams (Nov 7, 2006)

99% of the time you are offshore, the extra 4 feet that makes a point on the front of your monohull does not make a difference. a 27 mono is a mini boat in comparison to a 27 cat. the extra 4 feet you get doesn't make any difference in the feel of the boat unless your dog likes to ride in the front of it down the intracoastal.


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## CLVL (Aug 17, 2005)

I own a cat (Prowler 246) - that being said, IMO when you get a 31 CC monohull like a Cape Horn 31, Contenter 31, Yellowfin 31, etc that the deck is flat all the way forward, you have more fishing room forward in the monohull than a 27 cat.

Take a look at the WC product page on the 270SF (CC) and you will see the forward 3 feet is almost unusable as a fishing platform in anything but calm seas (front 1' slopes down). Then there is a step down for the next ~3 feet where a large storage box is located - interior freeboard height is ~15" (just guessing), again, you can't stand here in anything but calm seas. Step down again off the storage box and you are on the WC deck where you've got hip height interior freeboard, and you can fish from here back in almost any seas. So you don't have full 27' that you can fish in any seas, but it appears ~21' in the 270SF.

Going back to the CH 31 (or Contender or YF), the deck goes to the bow with hip height interior freeboard all the way forward - say that there's 4' of bow/anchor locker - still give you 27' of boat fishing room in just about any weather. Advantage is with the larger monohull.

Ride wise, I agree that a 27 cat rides better than a 27 monohull - generally more storage, more stable at rest, too. Does a 27 ride better than a 31 monohull? I'd have doubts if compared to one of the three just mentioned.


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## MXCapt (Jul 17, 2006)

We have some reconfirmed world cat fuel burn numbers again....we'll let Daniel post when he recovers from the run.

Commando mission to Gunnison departed saturday am 11/1 returned sunday am 11/2. 


Little teaser, the magic worked.........AGAIN. Boom


Anthony


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## 20Echo (Jul 21, 2008)

What difference does it make, its just a catamaran! pft! 3-5's and we burnt somewhere around 220 gallons, I have it written down. But once again did not need the reserve.


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## 20Echo (Jul 21, 2008)

GhostRider said:


> help me out and explain. what i'm reading is that if you were to add a "nose" to the front of a cat, and it were of proportional size, it would add 4-5' ft to the boat. Ok, I buy that. But it's not there, its a hypothetical - so how does it make the a 27' cat like a 31' mono ? as i read this he's added a non existent piece of fiberglass to come up with this analogy.
> 
> For fun, check this out.
> http://www.fountainpowerboats.com/boats/videos.htm
> See what Reggie thinks of cats. Scroll down and watch the video "Cat Killer... The Legend Returns" Reggie has a classic line in here when he says with his southern boy accent '... bye bye pussycats ... '


Ask Reggie what he thinks about resale.


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## GhostRider (Jan 11, 2008)

TEAMWILDSIDE said:


> Ask Reggie what he thinks about resale.


Not sure what that has to do with this, but, if you want to go off course for a bit I'll play. I don't know what Reggie thinks about resale, I'll bet he thinks that it's important and that his boats hold their value. Now of course he's biased... oh and he does have some influence on on the 'blue book' values.

I never really thought about this in the discussion of hull designs, but thought I'd give it a quick look. Data obtained is from yachtworld.

Since it was insinuated that a 27 cat is like a 31 mono those were the sizes i used. You're a fan of worldcat and you seemed to take a swipe at reggie. so i tried to do a quick comparison of the 27 worldcat and the 31 fountain.

World Cat - 1998 - 2007 31 datapoints
Fountain - 1998 - 2007 22 datapoints

There were no '06 or '07 Fountains listed and the oldest was '99. So I limited this to the '05 - '99 years.

World Cat - '05 high list to '99 high list. -54.8%
Fountain - ' 05 high list to '99 high list. - 6.9%

World Cat - '05 avg list to '99 avg list - 46.0%
Fountain - '05 avg list to '99 avg list - 19.4 %

Other interesting facts that came out of this exercise:

Avg asking price for Fountain - '99 - $58k '00 - $55.6k '01 - $54.5k
(those with '99s are really proud I guess)

Newer World cat data Avg '07 to Avg '06 - 22.5%. Not sure of the stats on boats in this size. Larger boats a rule of thumb would be 20-30% depreciation hit in year one & 15-25% in year 2. So this would indicate that it's no better or worse than the avg boat.

Be curious to look up how many 31 fountains vs how many 27 world cats were sold during this period, then compare to how many are listed for sale and try to figure out what that means.

That's the 30 minutes I had to spare on fun today. Now it's time to get back to work. It's MNF tonite:brew:


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## Blue Water Breaux (Feb 6, 2008)

:ac550:
kisssm


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## Chase This! (Jul 20, 2007)

Class dismissed.


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## Always-Gone-Fishing (Feb 20, 2006)

ajlsro said:


> >sounds to me like someone is drinking haterade.


Anthony, can you buy that at Bucees??? I've seen it at a few stores usually next to Red Bull****, Monster Attitude, and Arizona Teadoff.

Man, your most recent trip to Gunny sounds like one that makes you appreciate a good jockstrap and cup. Good job none-the-less!

David


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## 20Echo (Jul 21, 2008)

I really do not feel like getting into a flawed arguement about two boats that are over 4 feet apart in length. I will get the real data later.

Points:

I love fountains, just not my perfect Texas boat (might like a 38, never been on one)

There are HUNDREDS more fountains on the market for you to make your averages with. I see that you selected a certain Demographic if you will but that is hardly a fair comparison, but Ill take it.

My search came up with 41 fountains in your timeframe and 23 world cats? Must be a busy day.

You are comparing cuddy cabin boats and open bow to a center console world cat?

I do not see a fountain in this age group over 85K but I see at least 5 world cats with two breaking 100K.

Where is the fountain depreciation on years one and two? Lets do it with any boat that has been around as long as a 27 world cat and is not the latest and greatest.

Where is your mean coming from? -22.5% from what? Even still if your data-rule of thumb is 20-30% I would assume 20% is the best? Otherwise it would be 0-30% so that would in turn make World Cats 22.5% fantastic? Of course there is depriciation.

Here is the low fountain

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2000/Fountain-P-31-Cc-1935211/Ft-Lauderdale/FL/United-States

Here is the low World Cat.

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1998/World-Cat-27-Sport-Fisherman-1968425/Harwicport/MA/United-States

The high boats are over 20K apart with world cat winning at 104 (that's a dual console, the least popular model) Probably very proud like the decade old fountains for 55K (they might get 40 if they are repowered and bristol)

Real World Example. I had a 1998 World Cat that when bought new was bought for right at 89K. I sold the boat 10 years later (one year left of warranty) with 2003 Honda 200's (no warranty) and a trailer for 58,500 thousand dollars. That is a 35% in a decade. That is fact.

Yacht world is hardly the place to find resale values, they are all broker boats that are market up for commision. And with World Cat offering a 10 year transferable warranty with Yamaha or Honda 4 stroke power and Fountain offering a 5 year warranty accompanied with Mercury power I am having my doubts. I was not taking a swipe at anyone, if I wanted a go fast fountain would be it. Of course a fountain is going to have more room in the bow, one boat is to haul *** and one is to not get your *** kicked. There is also less room on the cockpit of a 31 fountain than in a 27 world cat. Again I am not sure which models you guys are talking about. You have a 40 foot boat with 1000 hp. I am sure it rides great, it is larger than most Bertram's. I have a 27 with 450 hp and I have never seen a boat *in its class* that can touch it. To each his own. Let's go catching.


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## GhostRider (Jan 11, 2008)

I really do not feel like getting into a flawed arguement about two boats that are over 4 feet apart in length. I will get the real data later. 
*As stated, chose these two boats because its been insinuated in this thread that a 27 cat is like a 31 v. I think guy said something like 4ft of the bow on v can be removed because its not used for anything.*

Points:

I love fountains, just not my perfect Texas boat (might like a 38, never been on one)
*I think technically that Fountain is now a 33 or 34, depending on how much of that useless bow nose we remove.*

There are HUNDREDS more fountains on the market for you to make your averages with. I see that you selected a certain Demographic if you will but that is hardly a fair comparison, but Ill take it.

My search came up with 41 fountains in your timeframe and 23 world cats? Must be a busy day.
*Not sure what we're doing differently, but I just validated the fountain search -23. I understand there are many more for sale on various sites. Was just looking for a quick place to look into this and started here because I was going to use boat wizard.*
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...ncyid=100&city=&pbsint=&boatsAddedSelected=-1

You are comparing cuddy cabin boats and open bow to a center console world cat? 
*Here's the search used for WC's. 33 show up, some are cuddy's, you are correct. *
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...ncyid=100&city=&pbsint=&boatsAddedSelected=-1

I do not see a fountain in this age group over 85K but I see at least 5 world cats with two breaking 100K.
*I specifically stayed away from actual prices for a number of reasons. As noted these are different boats in style / size and I have no idea what these boats retail for. Even then you retail pricing between mfgs gets very dicey unless you know what the boats are selling for and what the mfg / dealer agreeement looks like.*

Where is the fountain depreciation on years one and two? Lets do it with any boat that has been around as long as a 27 world cat and is not the latest and greatest.

Where is your mean coming from? -22.5% from what? Even still if your data-rule of thumb is 20-30% I would assume 20% is the best? Otherwise it would be 0-30% so that would in turn make World Cats 22.5% fantastic? Of course there is depriciation. 
*To make sure we're on the same page, depreciation is the loss of value (selling price) over time. In the search I did there were two '07's and two '06's for sale. Took avg asking price and came up with the difference (-22.5%). Without a doubt not a perfect way to do this, but if you go back a do this historically with many different types of boats it usually pretty accurate. And I recognize that one website is not a true statistical sampling, but it's a better start than one data point or conjecture.*

Here is the low fountain

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2000/Fountain-P-31-Cc-1935211/Ft-Lauderdale/FL/United-States

Here is the low World Cat.

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1998/World-Cat-27-Sport-Fisherman-1968425/Harwicport/MA/United-States

*Saw both of those, I knocked out highs and lows since they tend to skew everything. Low's could be damaged or repo's. High's could be from folks that really don't want to sell, but need to list them for tax purposes or to keep the wife happy.*

The high boats are over 20K apart with world cat winning at 104 (that's a dual console, the least popular model) Probably very proud like the decade old fountains for 55K (they might get 40 if they are repowered and bristol)

Real World Example. I had a 1998 World Cat that when bought new was bought for right at 89K. I sold the boat 10 years later (one year left of warranty) with 2003 Honda 200's (no warranty) and a trailer for 58,500 thousand dollars. That is a 35% in a decade. That is fact.
*That's fantastic. But its one data point & if I'm reading this correctly you didn't factor in the repower cost. Even with that factored in it sounds like you did pretty well.*

Yacht world is hardly the place to find resale values, they are all broker boats that are market up for commision. And with World Cat offering a 10 year transferable warranty with Yamaha or Honda 4 stroke power and Fountain offering a 5 year warranty accompanied with Mercury power I am having my doubts. I was not taking a swipe at anyone, if I wanted a go fast fountain would be it. Of course a fountain is going to have more room in the bow, one boat is to haul *** and one is to not get your *** kicked. There is also less room on the cockpit of a 31 fountain than in a 27 world cat. Again I am not sure which models you guys are talking about. You have a 40 foot boat with 1000 hp. I am sure it rides great, it is larger than most Bertram's. I have a 27 with 450 hp and I have never seen a boat *in its class* that can touch it. To each his own. Let's go catching. 
*Agreed on Yachtworld, that's why I spoke in % only. As stated I didn't have an opinion when I started into this, I was curious. So all I've posted is what I've seen and calculated. I guess I just take a little different tact when posting. And when its all said an done, I still don't know why a 27 cat is like a 31 vhull and why the first 4 ft of a v hull is worthless or why you thought any of this had to do with resale or which boat holds its value more. *
* Oh yeah, one more thing, I never doubted your fuel burn..... I do question if you were running 40 though.... looked like you were sittin' still when we went by :brew: *
*Take care, catch you out there next time.*

__________________
ROWDYFISH.COM


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## 20Echo (Jul 21, 2008)

LOL

I know you were sitting still all night at gunny when we kept going by you, maybe the gas gauges are why fountains resale is so high, at least you had some rope to tie off with, that 4 feet of bow came in handy then. 

You must spread some reputation around before giving it to GhostRider again.

Cheers.


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## GhostRider (Jan 11, 2008)

Touche'


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## [email protected] (Sep 18, 2008)

Once you own a Fountain, everyone is always gunning for you, because they can not catch you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## [email protected] Sportfishing (Jun 10, 2005)

Unless it 4-5's and they will blow by you!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Blue Water Breaux (Feb 6, 2008)

Brian, do you really work at basspro? don't y'all sell mako and bass boats? have you previously sold fountains or what? you seem to be rather boastful and all knowing of these fountains. I had a 05 34ft cc fountain and 3-4s would beat the $%^& out of us going "59" mph. and yes, before you ask, we had our tabs down to keep the nose in the waves-after all, riding a wheelie at 59mph and doing backwards somersaults like shamu just dont really coincide in my book.

so basically, i just question why you would have basspro on your handle and make such irrational assertions in regards to fountain boats? just wondering bc yes on calm days (icecream-2ft) we could easily go 65mph (tabs up) and fly by cats somewhat efficiently but its absurd for one to think these boasts, esp the vid you posted were doing 59mph or whatever haulin A speed in 3-4s without getting tossed around like a raggidy ann doll. and if that was the case, i know why i wasnt on the boat with you.in the doll tossing case, the cats would (theoretically) bleaux by us v-hull guys bc they eat the chop better. remember i love you and this isnt an attack. ps, tell reggie to make a fountain cat with an ice cream truck on the t-top that "meows" then we could go fishing together.


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## 20Echo (Jul 21, 2008)

Blue Water Breaux said:


> Brian, do you really work at basspro? don't y'all sell mako and bass boats? have you previously sold fountains or what? you seem to be rather boastful and all knowing of these fountains. I had a 05 34ft cc fountain and 3-4s would beat the $%^& out of us going "59" mph. and yes, before you ask, we had our tabs down to keep the nose in the waves-after all, riding a wheelie at 59mph and doing backwards somersaults like shamu just dont really coincide in my book.
> 
> so basically, i just question why you would have basspro on your handle and make such irrational assertions in regards to fountain boats? just wondering bc yes on calm days (icecream-2ft) we could easily go 65mph (tabs up) and fly by cats somewhat efficiently but its absurd for one to think these boasts, esp the vid you posted were doing 59mph or whatever haulin A speed in 3-4s without getting tossed around like a raggidy ann doll. and if that was the case, i know why i wasnt on the boat with you.in the doll tossing case, the cats would (theoretically) bleaux by us v-hull guys bc they eat the chop better. remember i love you and this isnt an attack. ps, tell reggie to make a fountain cat with an ice cream truck on the t-top that "meows" then we could go fishing together.


Holy **** that was funny :rotfl: Green to you....


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## 20Echo (Jul 21, 2008)

**** it won't let me!


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