# Flex Coat High Build



## ComeFrom? (May 21, 2004)

I'm looking for the least expensive clear epoxy-type finish. Any ideas? TIA. CF?


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## Doubless (Aug 22, 2005)

Go to Hobby Lobby and buy their Envirotex-Lite two part epoxy. (It is back where the deco-pauge (sp?) stuff is found...) I am on my third one-quart kit: 16 0z of resin and 16 of hardener. I use it for everything from epoxying the grips and reel seat to thinning and coating wraps. Pot time is about half an hour; well long enough to get done what you need to do, and the stuff is MUCH cheaper than Roger Seiders' stuff or anything else out there I am aware of... and to me it looks just as good and works just as well.


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## Swampland (Mar 25, 2008)

Don't put that stuff on a white blank or else it'll turn yellow real quick.


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## Doubless (Aug 22, 2005)

Sorry, I have never had that problem unless the epoxy was old. Use it fresh and it doesn't do that in my experience. 

But maybe the safe route to go is to ignore my post...


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## jaycook (Sep 13, 2007)

Doubless said:


> Sorry, I have never had that problem unless the epoxy was old. Use it fresh and it doesn't do that in my experience.
> 
> But maybe the safe route to go is to ignore my post...


Since there is a lack of your work posted here, maybe you could post some pics of what you have done with this epoxy. We would like to see results rather than hear someone say "this works great".


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## jaycook (Sep 13, 2007)

ComeFrom? said:


> I'm looking for the least expensive clear epoxy-type finish. Any ideas? TIA. CF?


Can you tell us what type of application you are going to use it for? From my understanding, all is not created equal and it would help to know what product quality you are needing.

For rod work, I would be hard pressed to use something other than what is marketed for rod building. True, most finishes are just rebranded products, but they have been proven to work for what we need. The data is out there for all the brands for you to determine what will work best for you. Please don't take my comments as discouragement, it's just my thoughts on the subject.


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## Doubless (Aug 22, 2005)

Jaycook, I am sixty years old tomorrow, and long ago I quit doing the decorative wraps. In short, my eyes aren't what they used to be, and the cancer has gotten in the way of most of my rod work. I build function now, not pretty. I hope you understand, but in the event you don't, here is an opinion, actually several opinions from others, on the subject. Maybe you can join that forum and ask them to post photos of THEIR work.

http://www.stripersonline.com/t/581964/hardware-store-thread-finish#post_4722334

It is tough being a skeptic all the time. As I said, the OP can just ignore what I meant. I take nothing personal from that. It was just a suggestion, and my experience mirrored the linked thread, not the one after mine. It is always possible to get a bad batch of chemicals, and maybe that happened.

I will continue to use Envirotex Lite; as I said, it works as well as the rest of them and doesn't cost near what they do. I suspect you would find a lot of what is out there as thread coat epoxy is nothing but re-bottled and re-labeled Envirotex anyway, but you will never be able to prove it.


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## jaycook (Sep 13, 2007)

Doubless said:


> Jaycook, I am sixty years old tomorrow, and long ago I quit doing the decorative wraps. In short, my eyes aren't what they used to be, and the cancer has gotten in the way of most of my rod work. I build function now, not pretty. I hope you understand, but in the event you don't, here is an opinion, actually several opinions from others, on the subject. Maybe you can join that forum and ask them to post photos of THEIR work.
> 
> http://www.stripersonline.com/t/581964/hardware-store-thread-finish#post_4722334
> 
> ...


 First, don't think that you're the only one with difficulties. We all have something to have to work around. It is what it is and I don't make excuses.

Second, I've been fairly active on this forum. There's no way I would give advice about something unless I had built a little confidence in my work and opinion. You on the other hand popped up and freely gave your opinion without anybody even knowing if you have really built anything. I am not taking anybody's advice without seeing some results. That was the purpose of my request.

Third, what do you think those guys on SOL would do to me if I just popped up and threw my weight around? Just answered a question and then acted all condescending when I was challenged. Those guys would eat me alive. There is a lot of talent on that forum. But, I don't have time to keep up with more than one forum and facebook. And, I've seen too much drama there to enjoy it.

Fourth, what do decorative wraps have to do with it? I've never done one. But I've only been assembling rods for about three years, so maybe that's my excuse. On the other hand, I don't think I'll ever do one. There's too many other techniques to explore that aren't overdone. Building for function? Most of mine are just that, barely even a background wrap for a decal. Some, slightly more intricate.

Honestly, all I was trying to say was that maybe a pic of a guide wrap along with your suggestion would have been a good way to post it. There's a good group of guys here. You should get involved. Not much attitude at all. Well, we had one, but he took care of himself and now he's gone.


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## BRH (May 11, 2011)

Swampland said:


> Don't put that stuff on a white blank or else it'll turn yellow real quick.


Lance,
Are you talking about the FC High Build or the Hobby Lobby stuff? I just used the FC on a new white St. Croix. It was from a new bottle that had some sort of "UV Protection" label on it. Never had a problem with it in the past, but this was my first white blank, so now you've got me a little nervous!

Oh, and thanks again for getting me that TourStar... You saved me on that one!

-Bruce


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## Goags (May 28, 2004)

It's all good, Doubless, we all have our opinions/preferences. Hate to hear about the cancer and the dwindling eyesight, as I'm in that advanced age bracket. My understanding is that there there are epoxies for adhesion and other epoxies for finish/levelling/bubble release/UV resistance, etc. I promise that the ones I use for each are vastly different in properties. Not saying that yours won't work for both, to some degree. Without researching, I'd venture to guess that Envirotex makes more than one epoxy.


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## Swampland (Mar 25, 2008)

BRH said:


> Lance,
> Are you talking about the FC High Build or the Hobby Lobby stuff? I just used the FC on a new white St. Croix. It was from a new bottle that had some sort of "UV Protection" label on it. Never had a problem with it in the past, but this was my first white blank, so now you've got me a little nervous!
> 
> Oh, and thanks again for getting me that TourStar... You saved me on that one!
> ...


Bruce, I've used Flex Coat UV in the past and yes I did see some yellowing on a white blank in the decal area and the excess finish that's on the blank right past your guide. On a dark blank with dark threads you'll never notice the yellowing.

I checked the MDS sheet on the Envirotex and nowhere does it say it has any type of UV inhibitors. It may be fine on a dark blank and threads but I'll stick with an epoxy formulated to put on rods and not something that's put on a tabletop.

Also to anyone new here or may not know better it was mentioned that it was used to glue grips and seats. I would never use use it for that application. I'd trust an unknown brand of epoxy formulated for gluing items together than Envirotex or any other rod finish for that matter.

Oh and glad to be able to help you on that grip. You know I called and left two messages at Tour Star to try to order more grips but still haven't received a reply yet.


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## Doubless (Aug 22, 2005)

I will post one more reply to your last, Jaycook, and then try to respectfully bow out of this thread, as it appear to me that you are one of those that doesn't believe anything unless it is staring him in the face. But so be it...

IF you go back and look at my first post, you will see that I stated I am on my third package of Envirotex Lite. Since the kits come in a 32-ounce kit and it takes rougly 40 mils to build and coat a rod, how many rods do you think I have built using the stuff? In short, I am not accustomed to being called a liar, and I don't know many who are. 

Secondly, you tell me you wouldn't post anything without having done the work and developed some confidence in it. Well, look at the paragraph directly above. Do you think just MAYBE I developed a bit of confidence in the product? I have shipped my custom stuff to about 15 states since I started wrapping in 1974. NEVER have I been challenged on which thread coat I used... 

And then you tell me "on the other hand I 'popped up' and gave my opinion...". Well, yes, I did. That is what the OP was looking for: inexpensive and quality. I find it mildly ironic that he didn't challenge me; you did. But you have no personal experience with Envirotex Lite, do you?

You tell me to "get involved". What do you think my original response was?

I have met far too many keyboard admirals since I started playing around on the Internet, and I have very little patience with them. There is a Book I try to pattern my life around, and it states in Exodus "Thou SHALT NOT bear false witness." 'Nuff said. I DO NOT and WILL NOT lie. Period. It serves no purpose. Your original post came across as accusatory, and I don't like that. I gave an opinion; I have nothing to be accused of, in my estimation.

Finally, decorative wraps is typically where, in my somewhat extensive experience, the wrap coatings show their true colors, no pun intended. White wraps will yellow and they are more easily seen in contrast to the other colors on the bigger wraps, and longer wraps are typically where the bellies, runs, and thin spots show up when coatings don't self-level like they should. THAT is how decorative wraps figure into the conversation.

I learned what I learned about building rods by trial and error: for instance, I quit using Flex Coat in the early 80s after a custom I built myself went soft during the night after I left it in the packed truck (in the bed) for a trip to the surf the next morning. You could take a fingernail and scrape the thread wrap off the wraps. 

I found out UB 40 is good stuff but expensive. At one time I was building 30-40 rods a year; that is a lot of thread wrap to go through.

Dale Clemens' stuff is likewise very good, but is almost too expensive to use. I found other stuff that in my own judgment mirrored what he had to sell at far less out of pocket expense. 

I have wrapped guides then used different color preservers to see which one worked best after the wraps were applied. It is called self-education. I did the same with the wrap coatings themselves. THAT is how I settled on what I use.

I notice you didn't challenge the gentleman that posted about Envirotex going yellow on a white rod and ask HIM to post a photo. I have to wonder: is he a personal friend, or just someone you choose not to challenge, as you so readily did me.

I don't care what you do with SOL; it was just a suggestion, and the thread supported what I told you. I don't care whether you believe them or not either. But I will tell you this: you ask them to post a photo like you did me, and you can probably prepare to get your head torn off. I don't think I have done that.

I am finished. I owe you absolutely nothing, especially the time I took to make this post. Instead of sniping at responders, try paddling your own boat and trying a few things on your own. You just might learn something...

OP, I apologize for unknowingly sidetracking this thread. Please don't use Envirotex Lite; I cannot predict that it will work for you like it did for me OR like it did for the men on Stripers Online.


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## Doubless (Aug 22, 2005)

GOAGS, thanks for the very kind words. I am not worried in the slightest about the cancer or the eyesight... they make very good glasses nowadays, and God has His hands all over the cancer. I sincerely expect to beat it; time will tell. 

It has been said that everyone wants to go to Heaven but nobody wants to die to get there. Well, it is coming for all of us. I will take what I have left and try to live out my life with the reverence and respect that a gift of life from our Creator should garner, and prepare for leaving. When that time comes, I pray I leave honorably and with little fanfare; I don't deserve any fanfare...


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## jaycook (Sep 13, 2007)

Doubless, you still did not understand what I wrote. When I spoke about confidence, I meant instilling confidence in others that I know what I am talking about. Not my confidence in my own research or whatever. In no way did I call you a liar. Just asked for some visual reference to what you suggested. Your opinion of what looks good might be slightly different than mine. I didn't challenge the other guy because he is a regular contributor and I have seen his work. I don't talk or act in riddles. 

Carry on, and Amen.

By the way, getting involved means to post up some work and introduce yourself.


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## Doubless (Aug 22, 2005)

Jaycook, thanks for the warm welcome. I can see that trying to get involved (as you suggested) is going to be the equivalent of running a gauntlet. I have to ask: is this the way all new posters on the rod building forum are treated? If so, forget it. It is not worth my time. I do not need instructions from a three-year rod builder as to what to post on this forum or any other, OR how to gain approval of my work from the others on this forum. And you do not and will not dictate what "getting involved" means to me until and unless you are either the owner of the website or either a moderator or administrator. in short, you are just another neophyte rod-assembling peon; you don't own the thread, the forum, or the site. Do you get that?

Thanks for showing me which forum(s) to refrain from visiting... apparently you are like a chicken in the chicken yard: just waiting to peck someone else bloody. 

Have fun. I am finished.


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## katjim00 (Jan 8, 2009)

Man that was a lot of wasted reading. I get both sides of the argument and both sides have points. Like anything else u read on the internet try to pic and choose what is beneficial to u to help guide u.

Now to the original poster.....as much as everything else costs this should not really be a factor. Try different thing and see what works for you. I am all about saving a buck but to me there are places to cut costs and places to suck it up and spend the extra. Finish is the place to spend the extra coin. Just my opinion


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## ComeFrom? (May 21, 2004)

*Application*

First I run out of the flex-stuff. I shop around on the .net and everywhere I see prices too high. All I wanted was opinions on lowest prices. This happens with my wife sometimes. Ask her what time it is, and she tells you how a watch is built. Thanks goags and all! CF?


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## Swampland (Mar 25, 2008)

Come from. Send me your address. I have a few kits of flex coat lite that was given to me from flex coat to give away at a show. I'll send one out to you today.


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## ComeFrom? (May 21, 2004)

Swampland said:


> Come from. Send me your address. I have a few kits of flex coat lite that was given to me from flex coat to give away at a show. I'll send one out to you today.


This getting old and being unemployed (and scared) is for the seagulls! Thanks and God Bless you!


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## Swampland (Mar 25, 2008)

No worries. Glad to help out. I remember being laid off as a welder back in the early eighties for months at a time. Not a good feeling. Good luck.

Lance


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## jaycook (Sep 13, 2007)

Guys, I asked a relevant question in my first comment. Whoever this Doubless guy is just jumped in from nowhere and got his feelings hurt when Swampland made his statement. If somebody wants to take that kind of advice and take a chance on having to rewrap something, go ahead. Maybe it's perfectly ok. But I would rather see some results before I do that. 

Comefrom?, sorry brother. I was trying to get some more info. I hate to redo anything, just trying to save you some trouble.


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## ComeFrom? (May 21, 2004)

jaycook said:


> Guys, I asked a relevant question in my first comment. Whoever this Doubless guy is just jumped in from nowhere and got his feelings hurt when Swampland made his statement. If somebody wants to take that kind of advice and take a chance on having to rewrap something, go ahead. Maybe it's perfectly ok. But I would rather see some results before I do that.
> 
> Comefrom?, sorry brother. I was trying to get some more info. I hate to redo anything, just trying to save you some trouble.


No problem. Thanks!


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## BRH (May 11, 2011)

Okâ€¦
I was going to refrain, but after reading this thread in its entirety I feel I must speak up. 

First off Doubtless, since you have mentioned it multiple times and no one has yet to mention it, let me be the first to tell you... HAPPY BIRTHDAY! 

Second, you are the one who started with the negativity and sarcasm rather than opening a positive line of discussionâ€¦ â€œBut maybe the safe route to go is to ignore my post...â€

Third, Iâ€™ve never heard of â€œStripersonlineâ€â€¦ but here in Texas SOL stands forâ€¦ wellâ€¦ you see where Iâ€™m goingâ€¦

Fourth, chastising and belittling someone because of their â€œageâ€ or â€œyears buildingâ€ in this day and age is extremely closed minded. As many here have seen, I have been through that argument before. In this game, older does not equal wiser. Rod technology is constantly changingâ€¦ blanks, grips, reel seats, guides, guide layouts are constantly evolving. Those that keep up with it all are the ones that I would like to share knowledge with. Because you may have an expertise in bamboo or fiberglass does not mean you are inherently an expert with graphite.

Fifth, calling someone a â€œpeonâ€ and a â€œneophyteâ€ is childish and unproductive.

Sixth, 40 mL of finish to build and coat a rod? Seriously? I donâ€™t think Iâ€™m the only one that would say you could be a little more efficient.

Seventh, YES, YES you did just â€œpop upâ€â€¦ there are quite a few people on here that are regular contributors and frequently have positive things to offer. Sorry, but you are not one of them. 

Eighth, Both Lance (Swampland), and Jay Cook, are fantastic people that have probably helped more people with rod building than you could in 10 lifetimes. They frequently offer advice, suggestions, parts, and their time to people they have never met before. 

Finally, welcome Doubtless, I think you will find that we are all fairly reasonable people here. â€œâ€Do you get that?â€â€


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## RJH (Dec 24, 2008)

I tried a lot of them and always go back to Flex Coat. If what I am told is right then 90% of the rod factories out there use it so it has to be pretty good all around. I knew one guy who was using a Home Depot bought furniture urethane and his wraps looked good but he said he had to use about four coats to get that depth. So in the long run with that many coats I don't know that it's any cheaper than a single coat of Flex Coat.


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## colbyntx (Jul 18, 2013)

RJH said:


> I tried a lot of them and always go back to Flex Coat. If what I am told is right then 90% of the rod factories out there use it so it has to be pretty good all around. I knew one guy who was using a Home Depot bought furniture urethane and his wraps looked good but he said he had to use about four coats to get that depth. So in the long run with that many coats I don't know that it's any cheaper than a single coat of Flex Coat.


But then again is 4 coats a lot? I have started using a first coat of Lite build then 3 of High build. I only mix 3CC total on each batch. So I use 12CC per rod. I do end up with some extra in each cup. I might try and mix 2CC on the next rod and drop it to 8CC per rod. Now if I was doing wraps I would have to use more. I love all the beautiful creations I see on here but can't get myself to try it yet. I fish artificial baits 99.9% of the time and looooove a lite rod!


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## cfulbright (Jun 24, 2009)

I normally do 2 coats of lite Colby, some rods need 3 coats to get all the imperfections out. I only use high build on inlays, and marbling.

But I have also learned there are a million different ways to do finish, so its what ever works for you.


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## RJH (Dec 24, 2008)

I think I figured up one time that I could completely finish all the wraps on a common fresh or light saltwater rod for about a quarter using Flex Coat Hi Build. With a long decorative wrap it might cost twice or three times as much so I don't see any of the epoxies as really be expensive. But I don't want to guess anybody's pocketbook and what they might be willing to spend. For me time is also an issue so even if a product cost a lot less if it means I have to take time out for two or three days to apply multiple coats the small savings would not be worth it. But these are all just things to consider if you want.


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## patfatdaddy (May 29, 2004)

Swampland said:


> Don't put that stuff on a white blank or else it'll turn yellow real quick.


*I have had it on a white blank for about 3 months now and it hasn't darkened a bit.


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