# Think it will run skinny???



## Sonnysmarine (Mar 18, 2007)

15'/56 Alweld boat, Yamaha F60 jet tiller handle, will take off in 8" float in 6 and run in 2-3" I have video of me testing it Sunday, cutting the corner at Fisherman's cut into the ICW on the west side, against the bank. Ran buy the 1/2 submerged tire on Bar room bay side between land and the tire on the way back. Ordered a fuel tank to sit in front today, and building a cooler base for a 50Qt Yetti to sit on to ride high so you can see everything. And ran it for over 2 1/2 hrs and still plenty of fuel in a 6 gal tank. Want to get in the back lakes, and drift with out tearing up lower units, and run on 1 1/2 gal per hr or so and not spend $35,000.+ 
Don't believe me come go for go for a ride!


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## Capt. Bobby Hill (Mar 30, 2010)

Post the video, that sound awesome!


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## 4 Ever-Fish N (Jun 10, 2006)

Looks great Sonny. Can't wait to see more pics after you get it rigged out like you want it. Can you get that same boat with a center console?


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## spook jr (Jun 25, 2008)

I think you should let Jason barrow it and take me duck hunting! Lol


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## East Cape (Feb 26, 2010)

good set-up! whats your speeds with that motor? I've been looking at adding a jet for some of our customers


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## reeltimer (Feb 5, 2010)

Nice set up sonny!whats top speed?


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## BayouBonsaiMan (Apr 14, 2009)

I could use one !


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## goodwood (Mar 30, 2009)

Pretty cool. How much does a rig like this cost?


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## Paul Marx (Nov 13, 2009)

Build you some tabs to attach to the foot to help collect water . you won't cavittate . Learn to listen to your motor ...it will let you know when you are emptying the tunnel. It will run in less water then it willfloat in . Once you get your motor set where you think it's good rivet a peice of aluminum from the tunnelout to the edge of the foot. You loose 1/3 of the power from the head to the jet 60hp + 40 at the jet . , but they are B.A. I ran one for years before anyone knew about them on the coast . Checkout TINBOATS.com I bought mine after making friends with a guide on the Kenia river . Sharpen the grates if you think you might run across some grass ,keep the pump bearing greased . Blow Mud and have some fun. It's the only outboard with brakes. Myboat was a 17 x 56 and it drank fuel . I'm not saying you didn't get that kind of gas mileage , i'm saying don't get used to it. They drink some fuel . My next one someday will be four stroke , and LARGE.


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## DSL_PWR (Jul 22, 2009)

Very cool


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## Sonnysmarine (Mar 18, 2007)

Jason's (tnkfixer) Gps on his Iphone showed 27 10 gal fuel two people, in the deep water of the Icw, in skinny water it picks up a little. I had just got the 2 hrs of break in on the motor so did not hold it wide open for long. Going to set up temp flow scan to check fuel, after a couple more runs. Working on the cost, after I get the set up totally done, with the aluminum, and the Yetti for a Tall seat to set on. 
Jason has the Video on his phone so waiting for him to send it my e-mail to get it up loaded online.


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## Sonnysmarine (Mar 18, 2007)

4 Ever-Fish N said:


> Looks great Sonny. Can't wait to see more pics after you get it rigged out like you want it. Can you get that same boat with a center console?


Yes I can put a center console but adds ,weight and cost, and can not turn it as quick to run the skinny back sloughs, and cuts the speed a little. I have rigged both ways, the tiller is MUCH more fun and the way to go on the 40 and 60 hp jets on a light boat. Come down and take a ride and you will see. The Yetti cooler rack I'm going to make will have a removable back rest on it, to make it more safe, and comfortable. Working on this one and two new flounder boats at the same time, in the afternoon's and weekends.


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## POSIDEON (Feb 11, 2006)

Sweet rig!!


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## mgeistman (Jun 13, 2012)

Man I wish I had one!!


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## That Robbie Guy (Aug 11, 2009)

Ooooh, I likes!


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## ReelWork (May 21, 2004)

Nice... But curious why your F60 has a 40 on the cowling? :ac550:


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## jjtroutkiller (Jan 28, 2005)

It's a 60 hp powerehead and 40hp thrust at the pump.


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## mgeistman (Jun 13, 2012)

jjtroutkiller said:


> It's a 60 hp powerehead and 40hp thrust at the pump.


its a average 20% loss across the board with a jet right??


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## marsh bandit (Aug 17, 2011)

Don't jet motors run better without a tunnel hull?


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## ak (May 6, 2012)

Got me second guessing the surface drive I just got haha. I was told they get clogged in grass?


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## Flat's Hunter (Oct 18, 2007)

ak said:


> Got me second guessing the surface drive I just got haha. I was told they get clogged in grass?


I read people just remove the grate and it just chops the grass up. Is that the thing to do Sonny? what about oyster shell and the like? are replacement impellers expensive and how long do they last doing typical running in the POC back lakes?


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## waterspout (May 21, 2004)

removing that grate is a fast way to replace the impeller! yes it will clog is grass.. as anything watch where you run.. jet are nice but surface drives get nastey skinny and dont clog. jets run fast and do loose HP at the pump. that's the way it is though.

trying to get a oyster shell or whatever unstuck from that impelled in a foot or two of mud is not fun on a cold day in the marsh!


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## devil1824 (Sep 4, 2010)

marsh bandit said:


> Don't jet motors run better without a tunnel hull?


I think jets just require a smaller tunnel.


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## ak (May 6, 2012)

waterspout said:


> removing that grate is a fast way to replace the impeller! yes it will clog is grass.. as anything watch where you run.. jet are nice but surface drives get nastey skinny and dont clog. jets run fast and do loose HP at the pump. that's the way it is though.
> 
> trying to get a oyster shell or whatever unstuck from that impelled in a foot or two of mud is not fun on a cold day in the marsh!


Just made me feel better hah.


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## waterspout (May 21, 2004)

marsh bandit said:


> Don't jet motors run better without a tunnel hull?





devil1824 said:


> I think jets just require a smaller tunnel.


all boats run better,, but, defeats the purpose of a jet if you have the intake under the boat and not tucked up and above the bottom.. J/S!


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## Sonnysmarine (Mar 18, 2007)

The small tunnel works great, With the jet. It feeds it plenty of water, tucks right under the top of the tunnel. I had the tunnel extended, from the factory. 
I have built several of these little jet outboards, the tunnel runs much shallower!! because the jet has to hang down below the bottom of the hull to feed water, which then hits bottom in very skinny water, I'm talking 6" or less of running. 
I remove 1/2 of the grates, to stop most of the shells, the grass unless running in full grass will chew it up and shoot it out. I build a shell extractor like slide hammer with a Hook to pull out the shells if one gets in the jet. The Aluminum impellers last a couple years, and a lot cheaper than a prop. Can upgrade to a S.S. one for around 375.00. They have wear rings that is easy to change, and adjust the impeller up more as it wears, takes about 10 min to adjust.
I have been playing and working with outboard jets for 20 years. I help set up , build and maintain, Several custom boats for Water Fondren, Of the CCA and POCO fame, it was all he wanted to run. He had two jet outboard boats with Hugh towers on them for fishing the back lakes and site casting, Mostly 2 stroke 200 hp. but the new 4 strokes run Quiet, you can talk normal at wide open, and a lot more cost effective on fuel than the old 2 strokes.
Hope next year to put together some with a F115 and F150 power heads on longer 60" hulls.
Yes I know about the mud motors, but will they take off in 6-8" of hard SAND BOTTOM??? run in 2-3 inches of hard sand bottom or mud? How many props a year do you go through?? Want to go and follow me and stop and take off on hard sand, lets go test them side by side.
Not bashing them they work great in mud and muck, I like outboards, and a Yamaha dealer, and like the new 4 stroke jets. 
The cost for the 30-40 hp mud motors is near the same as a 60 hp power head, 40 hp at the jet, and the jets are much easier on the arm with no load torque on the steering. Come lets take a test ride and see.
Hope to have cooler rack built for the yetti tomorrow and then a platform for the 12 gal, tank in a day or so, but it's ready to run now, with a Portable tank.


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## Capt. Billy (Mar 6, 2010)

That is a pretty nice setup. Maybe you could build us one with twin jets maybe twin 115's.


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## pmgoffjr (Jul 30, 2009)

I'd just as soon everyone keep on running props. Keep outta my stuff.

Everything is a compromise, mud motors aren't worth diddle in hard sand, air boats run shallow but have their issues, jets run super shallow and have their compromises, props just can't go near as skinny as a jet, or get up in the same stuff.

I'll take the jet compromise, you might not accept it, thank goodness we have choices.


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## mgeistman (Jun 13, 2012)

Do they have a jet to fit the merc 150 4stroke?


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## COOLWADERS (Nov 26, 2009)

mgeistman said:


> Do they have a jet to fit the merc 150 4stroke?


http://www.outboardjets.com/index.php


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## Sonnysmarine (Mar 18, 2007)

They may be building one for it, the motors have not been out that long,, most of the smaller jets are made with a adapter plate and then the drive shaft and bearing set up to fix the manufacturers motors, Do not know about the bigger ones, I have used jets for older merc,90-125 and 150-200, they use have a model for each motor. I called a few weeks ago I'm a outboard Jets dealer, and they said they are two months out on any units. Mercury does make some models with a jet from factory, they all are outboard jet Co. units. We get the motors from Yamaha with a jet model no. and no lower unit the jet box comes in a few days later, and has to be assembled.

Yep I know not every will be a outboard jet fan, but they are nice small light weight boats, to duck hunt and get into the back lakes with 1-3 people, the little one's run cheap on gas, at 1 1/2 gal per hour, with out spending a chit load of money for a Air boat, and will not do what a air boat does!, or a SBC, or skinny water boats will carry lots of people and run 45-85 mph. Just something different, like the flounder boats I build, I like to build and play with and maybe sale, if not it will be a demo and personal boat.


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## jrb007 (Feb 24, 2010)

Awesome looking rig!!!!!


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## Smackdaddy53 (Nov 4, 2011)

This makes me want to finish my outboard jet boat now!

http://www.fishingscout.com/anglers/SmackDaddy


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## SaltwaterJunkie (Jun 25, 2011)

I am a believer in the jet drives. They are sick boats and go just about anywhere. I will be getting rid of my tunnel & prop boat.


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## mgeistman (Jun 13, 2012)

thanks for the info!


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## cva34 (Dec 22, 2008)

*Hurry*



Smackdaddy53 said:


> This makes me want to finish my outboard jet boat now!
> 
> http://www.fishingscout.com/anglers/SmackDaddy


 I was figgering this would set you off...cva34 GoodLuck


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## pmgoffjr (Jul 30, 2009)

A small mod can make the jet run through the thickest salad. We drill out holes 1/3" below the impeller, stick a welding rod through and bend the ends. When the grass gets in it, it acts like a shredder, just chews it up and spits it out. Oh and you remove all the grate to make it work. 

Sonny's little tool to remove shell caught in the output works like a charm, just something to crunch them up so it can spit it out.

And, the little cavitation wings will make a huge difference running in choppy water, especially in following waves. 

What you end up with is the ability to take off with the hull sitting on the bottom, and run anywhere there's a ripple. Sure makes navigating easy.


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## ReelWork (May 21, 2004)

jjtroutkiller said:


> It's a 60 hp powerehead and 40hp thrust at the pump.


Thanks for the clarification. I've always known about the relative power loss at the pump, just didn't know the powerheads and markings were adjusted accordingly.

So when you see a 60 HP jet, it's likely using a 90 HP powerhead?

Don't see too many of these setup, however they are wicked shallow on the right setups (like yours).


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## Tankfxr (Dec 26, 2007)

I was able to get the video uploaded to youtube. The video was taken in HD so if you change your youtube settings to HD it will be much better quality and you will be able to see how much water really isn't there.


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## Navi (Jun 2, 2009)

Man that is skinny, now lets see the flounder boat pics too!


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## Tankfxr (Dec 26, 2007)

Here is a second video of the same test run.


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## craftkr (May 24, 2012)

Me Likey!!!!!

Very Cool, what's the price tag on a rig like that? And running a 18 ft boat would only help it right? I used to have a18ft alweld tunnel with 25 with decked head, reeds etc. and that thing was on plane/step in a sec.


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## yellowskeeter (Jul 18, 2008)

That is really cool. How is steering on that feel? Is it sort of like a jet ski where you have to be on power to turn? Would be cool to see a transom video.


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## That Robbie Guy (Aug 11, 2009)

Thanks for the videos!


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## ReelWork (May 21, 2004)

Inches... very nice!


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## mgeistman (Jun 13, 2012)

Transom vid would be awesome


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## Tankfxr (Dec 26, 2007)

I will talk to Sonny tomorrow to see if we can get more video. 

Sent from my MB886 using Tapatalk 2


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## pmgoffjr (Jul 30, 2009)

No power: no turn takes a little getting used to. But you can get the bat-turn move down pretty easy when you absolutely have to not run into something.


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## Sonnysmarine (Mar 18, 2007)

Navi thanks it will be next week before I can start building the flounder boats, Waiting on T-tops and more to help me bend the Sch 80 Pipe, so I can start welding the racks up.
The steering is no torque on the tiller handle at all, and yes the thrust of the jet is what helps it steer like a jet ski, It does have reverse but not at a fast speed, In neutral it creeps forward slightly. Chop the throttle all at once and no steering. 

I'm not a 2 cool sponsor, so can not and will not quote prices,off here. 
I just thought it was cool little rig like no one else if building, and wanted to show it off and see what people thought of it. This one is probably going to be a demo boat for a little bit to test with on some new set ups, but can call and talk to us at the shop. 
Wanting the get the cooler rack built it was trying to flip the yetti backwards with me on it, when I went to full throttle all at once!!! and a back rest on the cooler bracket, most comfortable sitting side saddle on the Cooler, and the Gas tank mounted with a platform built around it and We will get some video, I might be able to make a bracket to mount to my underwater camera housing and mount it to get transom video , really need a go2 pro set up, with housing. but $$$ Trying to do the welding at night since T-tops an more is so busy, to get the brackets and platform built. Thanks for the uplifting inquires and Comments on it.


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## pmgoffjr (Jul 30, 2009)

Sonny, it's very well setup, you can tell by the lack of spray coming off the jet foot. Anyone who hasn't experience the feeling of the hull lifting in 2" of water and the jet never misses a beat will be in for a treat. Experienced hands start grabbing rails when we go through some of the shallow cuts and passes.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Nov 4, 2011)

pmgoffjr said:


> A small mod can make the jet run through the thickest salad. We drill out holes 1/3" below the impeller, stick a welding rod through and bend the ends. When the grass gets in it, it acts like a shredder, just chews it up and spits it out. Oh and you remove all the grate to make it work.
> 
> Sonny's little tool to remove shell caught in the output works like a charm, just something to crunch them up so it can spit it out.
> 
> ...


Im not sure i follow...you remove the grate and basically use welding rods higher up instead of the grate?

http://www.fishingscout.com/anglers/SmackDaddy


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## FISHROADIE (Apr 2, 2010)

I have one you are going to love it. It will run over sand bars and spit sand out the back and keep going. Be sure and have something you can dig the shells out of the intake with. And you will need to grease the fitting on the lower unit after every trip. The one thing it does not like is vegetation, its a nice looking rig.


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## ak (May 6, 2012)

What about the 25hp mercury jet. Do they come in 15 inch transom all I sall were 20"


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## bayourat (Jan 7, 2005)

pmgoffjr said:


> Sonny, it's very well setup, you can tell by the lack of spray coming off the jet foot. Anyone who hasn't experience the *feeling of the hull lifting* in 2" of water and the jet never misses a beat will be in for a treat. Experienced hands start grabbing rails when we go through some of the shallow cuts and passes.


My little scooter does that with a regular outboard...... it's a weird feeling for sure!


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## 4 Ever-Fish N (Jun 10, 2006)

Just saw the video. Dang that looks awesome.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Nov 4, 2011)

ak said:


> What about the 25hp mercury jet. Do they come in 15 inch transom all I sall were 20"


Do you mean motor shaft length? The actual jet is just the lower unit made by Outboard Jets in California that is a bolt on to nearly any outboard. 
The motor has to be higher than with a prop drive because the drive shaft is the same length but the leading edge of the jet foot has to be just about flush with the bottom of the boat or tunnel if the boat has one. For instance a 20" shaft merc on a 20" transom boat (with no tunnel) will have to be raised up about 5" and even more if on a tunnel hull. On a non tunnel hull the only thing below the bottom of the hull is about 2" of the intake foot because it is angled back to allow water to enter the intake. On a tunnel usually none of the foot is below the hull. A prop tunnel is usually deeper than a jet tunnel which is usually only a couple of inches deep. Too much tunnel on a jet and it will cavitate and lose prime which means it stops moving water and ingests air. 
How much do the intake fins actually help reduce cavitation? I may want to add some on mine for rougher water, shallow turning etc. Im a newbie to jets and want the optimum set up besides adding a tunnel and tiller. Mine will be a center console and slight semi v hull with no tunnel, a manual jack plate and sponsons.

http://www.fishingscout.com/anglers/SmackDaddy


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## pmgoffjr (Jul 30, 2009)

Ok, the welding rod trick works because instead of vegetation just spinning around on the impeller, it hits the rod and gets cut up. It'll load up, then in a second chews it up and barfs it all out.

Why does the jet run shallower than a prop, even the best tunnels? It takes a lot less water to feed the tunnel, the jet picks up the water and out it goes, you have to feed enough water to keep a prop from cavitating, big difference. Anyone who really believes they can run with a squirt boat can give it a try at Seadrift or POC anytime, should take about 2 minutes to test out. And don't even think you can take off in the same water, I can be literally sitting on bottom and go, again I just need a thin bit of water to pick up and sling out. You gotta have enough to get to that 14" prop. I've run both, and there's a lot of things the prop does better, it's faster, better in rough water, way easier to steer in traffic, but shallow? sorry.

The intake fins made a big difference on my scooter, your mileage might vary.


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## ReelWork (May 21, 2004)

Not to mention a jet doesn't have a skeg sticking down...


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## RedfireSVT (May 15, 2012)

i want one of these. i sent you a pm.


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## railbird (Jan 2, 2009)

Running shallow? I'll take that bet. Don't make me get my video back out!


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## pmgoffjr (Jul 30, 2009)

Let me pick the spot, not slushy mud, and then we'll all STOP and see what happens next.....I've seen the video, and rest assured it's an extraordinary example of tunnel rigging and props. 

But, you can't stop where I can, and my wee tunnel can sponge out the water enough to slide to the other side of the mud bar also. 

Be careful here...really watch your step. It won't be a fair battle.


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## reeltimer (Feb 5, 2010)

That sounds like a fun ride.


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## Cool Hand (Mar 24, 2010)

Any numbers? :headknock
pm sent


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## Muster (Dec 16, 2012)

That's a cool boat. Wouldn't mind having that rig for sure


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## Law Dog (Jul 27, 2010)

Awesome looking rig. Great video.. Congrats..


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## railbird (Jan 2, 2009)

pmgoffjr said:


> Let me pick the spot, not slushy mud, and then we'll all STOP and see what happens next.....I've seen the video, and rest assured it's an extraordinary example of tunnel rigging and props.
> 
> But, you can't stop where I can, and my wee tunnel can sponge out the water enough to slide to the other side of the mud bar also.
> 
> Be careful here...really watch your step. It won't be a fair battle.


I don't disagree a 300# hull will get on plane much shallower than a 1200# hull. I don't disagree, a jet can do things over sand that my Honda can't. The debate was which would run shallower a jet or a prop driven boat.

As for your picking the spot, you might want to be very careful, because i am pretty good at picking spots too. I would submit to you that I could take you to a place in Mansfield that you couldn't even put your rig in gear without clogging the jet. I've been in a few jet boats in LLM and they have limitations as all rigs do.

Here is my view on all this. A properly designed tunnel hull one boat with a prop, one boat with a jet both boats identical otherwise. The prop boat will be faster and shallower when both a driven effectively, however it will not get on plane in sand as shallow and probably not over soft mud as shallow and of course the jet is worthless in grassy areas. ( the reason I say a setup with equal hp on identical boats the prop will run shallower, is the jet loses 20% of its hp with a jet, hp is work and a prop can do more work than a jet.)

I will take a trp rigged rfl for all around shallow performance over a jet. Jets have their place just not on the back of my rig.


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## Paul Marx (Nov 13, 2009)

Smackdaddy you will love it . Yes the little fins on the side of the foot help . You will see where I had them on your motor . I made them out of aluminum and they were about 2 1/2 " in the front tapering back to about 3/4" at the back of the foot. The only time you are really wearing on the impeller is when you're blowing mud. I would not take the grating off . You will see where I sharpened the edges of the grating to help cut the grass. You burn 1/3 more fuel and loose about 30% of the powerheads horse power running a jet. You should also add an extention plate to the bottom of the tunnel to close the distance to the front of the foot to about an inch . The front of the foot should have little to none of the water coming over the top while running. Take a floor jack with you to the ramp and keep adjusting the motor height till you get it right. You will know when you get there. Trailing seas will drive you crazy cavitating . Power into the turns . You will learn when you are fixing to loose prime. On a plane I couldturn my boat around in alittle more then a boat length . Carry a long ropeand your cell phone , you will eventually need it .


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## elgatogus (Oct 27, 2010)

railbird said:


> Running shallow? I'll take that bet. Don't make me get my video back out!


I never saw ur video, Bust it out Mr. Railbird!:biggrin:


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## dannyalvarez (Jun 7, 2008)

railbird said:


> I don't disagree a 300# hull will get on plane much shallower than a 1200# hull. I don't disagree, a jet can do things over sand that my Honda can't. The debate was which would run shallower a jet or a prop driven boat.
> 
> As for your picking the spot, you might want to be very careful, because i am pretty good at picking spots too. I would submit to you that I could take you to a place in Mansfield that you couldn't even put your rig in gear without clogging the jet. I've been in a few jet boats in LLM and they have limitations as all rigs do.
> 
> ...


Railbird, I would love to see this famous video! Post it or send it to me. Thanks!


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## Smackdaddy53 (Nov 4, 2011)

Railbird, Id likd to see the video, its unanimous! Im still working on my jet rig, dont want to compete, just want to see what you are working with.

http://www.fishingscout.com/anglers/SmackDaddy


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## spurgersalty (Jun 29, 2010)

Subscribed for the vid......again


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## RedfishStalker (Jul 27, 2012)

I have seen the video of railbirds. He is **** shallow in that rfl


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## That Robbie Guy (Aug 11, 2009)

Dun, dun, duuun!


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## Redfishr (Jul 26, 2004)

The Railbird video defies physics..........Iaint neva seen anythang like dat bafoe...


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## patwilson (Jan 13, 2006)

yep



Redfishr said:


> The Railbird video defies physics..........Iaint neva seen anythang like dat bafoe...


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## mgeistman (Jun 13, 2012)

Post it up!!


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## atcfisherman (Oct 5, 2006)

I don't run skinny, at least in the depth y'all are talking about. My "skinny" running is 10-14 inches, depending on the bottom. However, I would think that running "skinny" as y'all are talking about really depends on if you know the area. Railbird is probably right that he could take someone in his "stomping grounds" and they not make it. But someone could probably take him in their stomping grounds and he get stuck. I've actually seen this a few times. But JMO and observations.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Nov 4, 2011)

I found his old videos but theyre not on youtube anymore. I wanna see

http://www.fishingscout.com/anglers/SmackDaddy


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## spurgersalty (Jun 29, 2010)

atcfisherman said:


> I don't run skinny, at least in the depth y'all are talking about. My "skinny" running is 10-14 inches, depending on the bottom. However, I would think that running "skinny" as y'all are talking about really depends on if you know the area. Railbird is probably right that he could take someone in his "stomping grounds" and they not make it. But someone could probably take him in their stomping grounds and he get stuck. I've actually seen this a few times. But JMO and observations.


I bet he'd suprise you


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## devil1824 (Sep 4, 2010)

spurgersalty said:


> I bet he'd suprise you


Yeah, like running in mud. Not water, but mud.


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## pmgoffjr (Jul 30, 2009)

Not to get this to the point of pulling iron, but...

I'll be more than happy to demonstrate a jets ability to run through 3" of foamed up grass. It's a small mod, but most effective. 

I know it's just a matter of mere inches, but as you well know that can be 100 yards. And it still takes more water to keep a prop tunnel filled and working than it does a jet, you'll be cavitated and down long before I will. 

Where this conversation will always go, a big heavy fiberglass tub has it's limitations, some have pushed the level, but as you noted, some of us push that further, yeah it's a 300 lb hull, yeah my motor is half the weight, and yeah I can't put four biscuit heads in my scooter and go fishing, or do I ever plan to. What I do know, if there is the slightest ripple on the water, I'm good to go. 

And we can meet in mansfield, seadrift, wherever, and your opinion of what something is capable of might very well change in a few minutes. People can't believe/understand how you get yours to run like it does, give someone credit you might not know all there is about a squirt motor either.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Nov 4, 2011)

pmgoffjr said:


> Not to get this to the point of pulling iron, but...
> 
> I'll be more than happy to demonstrate a jets ability to run through 3" of foamed up grass. It's a small mod, but most effective.
> 
> ...


I just hope without a tunnel ill be able to run in 4" or less with my 60/45. Not looking for speed.

http://www.fishingscout.com/anglers/SmackDaddy


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## railbird (Jan 2, 2009)

pmgoffjr said:


> Not to get this to the point of pulling iron, but...
> 
> I'll be more than happy to demonstrate a jets ability to run through 3" of foamed up grass. It's a small mod, but most effective.
> 
> ...


I absolutely believe you can do as much or more than you say you can do. Believe me, I have no doubts about what you are saying about your jet. I do however, believe you have never seen what a correctly operated prop driven tunnel hull can do. You keep mentioning cavitation, it doesn't occur if you go slow enough. As for the jet needing less water for thrust, sure if you are operating a 60 hp at 45 hp, you will need approximately 1/3 (45hp/150hp) the water to operate your rig than mine. My point is all rigs are limited in some way.

What I've seen with the only jet drive I've ever been around in salt water, is I spent more time shut down dealing with floating grass and oyster shell than I spent fishing. If that is what a jet is about, I will stick to my 2 stage prop.


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## KillerShrimp (Jan 12, 2005)

The only thing I see is people comparing apples to oranges. And when you do that it will never be correct. So all we now is an airboat. Come on people. Each is to there own in whatever they run. Calling people out, or calling people names (biscuit heads), really are we 12, what's next? To see the bashing on this forum has gotten ridclous.


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## elgatogus (Oct 27, 2010)

KillerShrimp said:


> The only thing I see is people comparing apples to oranges. And when you do that it will never be correct. So all we now is an airboat. Come on people. Each is to there own in whatever they run. Calling people out, or calling people names (biscuit heads), really are we 12, what's next? To see the bashing on this forum has gotten ridclous.


Biscuit Heads???????? ... ShOoOoOoOt....I isn't no BiScUiT hEaD! :slimer:


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## lwgbully (Jan 23, 2009)

KillerShrimp said:


> The only thing I see is people comparing apples to oranges. And when you do that it will never be correct. So all we now is an airboat. Come on people. Each is to there own in whatever they run. Calling people out, or calling people names (biscuit heads), really are we 12, what's next? To see the bashing on this forum has gotten ridclous.


KillerShrimp, what are you talking about? Is there a problem with two guys having a discussion?

Biscuit heads was a reference to the number of fishing buddies his rig would carrying.

Bashing? Your reference to being twelve is the only thing I've seen close to bashing in this particular thread.


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## Sonnysmarine (Mar 18, 2007)

Guys It's CHRISTmas,, cant we all just get along..angelsm
THe little jet rig has it limits, will not hold 6 people and run 45 mph, Not the shallowest running boat out there, but will run in some pretty skiiny water, good for 1-3 people to get to the duck blinds with out a air boat, and spending, 1/4 less than a Air boat or new fullly rigged, Hanyie, Shoalwater, with a 250 sho. Just a little shallow running rig to run the back lakes, to the duck blinds, will not run across the open bay in 2 fts seas. I just rigged it to test and demo, play with around POC, in shallow water hard sand or mud bottom. Yes if you run it in lots of grass or oyster shells you will have to stop and clean out the intake. Some will like running jets, some will not. I have seen some of the cost of the Mud motors rugs, and talked to some that had them, they do not work in a hard sand bottom, but do in mud, this one works in both at less cost, and less maintenece, No it will not work in 2 inches of water and 1 ft of mud like a mud motor. 
All boats, and set ups have differences, I just like to put something togeather Different, to run, cheap on fuel, lower cost than some other boats, the cost is higher than others it size. 
Point being, it's not for everyone, and different, no need to disagree about who's boat is the best. We all bought our boats for what we thought was the best set up for us. All have good points for what you bought it for ans all do have some limits some where, THERE IS NO PERFECT BOAT, just prefect for the person who bought it. Thanks for all the views and discusions, on my little boat I built, If you want to see how it runs, come down and I will take you for a ride. I'm sure it's not for everyone, but for at least 20-30 people who have stoped buy and seen it or called and emailed, went on a test run, they sure thought it was great. It's not for everyone! Thanks Sonny


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## pmgoffjr (Jul 30, 2009)

Well Sonny I could have spent a month and not come up with better words.


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## atcfisherman (Oct 5, 2006)

Question: Which one does more damage to the enviroment? Prop drive in the mud or the jet drive? Reason tells me the prop does, but just wondering what the replies would be.


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## RedfireSVT (May 15, 2012)

weeds are bad, they take o2 out of the water.


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## devil1824 (Sep 4, 2010)

atcfisherman said:


> Question: Which one does more damage to the enviroment? Prop drive in the mud or the jet drive? Reason tells me the prop does, but just wondering what the replies would be.


All the waders stomping around in the mud and grass. Trolling motors chewing up all the grass.


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## Blue Fury (Nov 5, 2006)

1/4 less? So I can pick one up like that for about 12k new?


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## Sonnysmarine (Mar 18, 2007)

Blue Fury said:


> 1/4 less? So I can pick one up like that for about 12k new?


Not quiet that cheap but then most of the new Boats as I said with alum, work have been priced out over $60,000.00 from talking to customers on 3 I done 20 hr checks in the past two weeks.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Nov 4, 2011)

Well this German Irish biscuit head will be running a jet rig and i cant wait. Mine will end up having about $3000 in it because i already had the hull. 
Nice rig Sonny, i wish id have built my transom up like that so i didnt need a manual jack plate but i guess at least ill have vertical adjustment. Im going to come by and pick your brain one day when im in poc.

http://www.fishingscout.com/anglers/SmackDaddy


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## atcfisherman (Oct 5, 2006)

devil1824 said:


> All the waders stomping around in the mud and grass. Trolling motors chewing up all the grass.


Really???? Amazing answer not even worth answering!!!


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## pmgoffjr (Jul 30, 2009)

Nobody is bashing anyone here. Just for the record..
I have run plenty of prop rigs. Best one I had ran a 60 merc with low water pickup and a cleaver prop, prop shaft was 1" above the top of the tunnel, it would run as shallow as my jet does. But it never could stop in the places I can stop now, and it couldn't run as slow and stay going. 

None of us can claim much in the way of turning ability, you slide left, you slide right, and with enough practice you learn to control your slide with your throttle, but even that will put you on the bank sometimes. That's the main reason I'm running this rig now, it's not impossible (it's not fun) but I can get my push pole under it and slide it wherever I need to so I can float again.

And..the older I get the less social I am. Sorry dude, no room...


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## ATE_UP_FISHERMAN (Jun 25, 2004)

Fifth Lake runner for sure. Sonny knows his stuff. He's been building and maintaining back lake rigs for many years.


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## mgeistman (Jun 13, 2012)

railbird said:


> I absolutely believe you can do as much or more than you say you can do. Believe me, I have no doubts about what you are saying about your jet. I do however, believe you have never seen what a correctly operated prop driven tunnel hull can do. You keep mentioning cavitation, it doesn't occur if you go slow enough. As for the jet needing less water for thrust, sure if you are operating a 60 hp at 45 hp, you will need approximately 1/3 (45hp/150hp) the water to operate your rig than mine. My point is all rigs are limited in some way.
> 
> What I've seen with the only jet drive I've ever been around in salt water, is I spent more time shut down dealing with floating grass and oyster shell than I spent fishing. If that is what a jet is about, I will stick to my 2 stage prop.


Why won't you post your vids?


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## RedXCross (Aug 7, 2005)

Let me say this, I absolutely believe Chuck(RB) and I definitely believe Pat PMgoffjr, There is no better driver of a Champion Bass boat on the face of the earth Than Pat. FACT. And he has taught many a guy and gal how to drive boats in general. 

I have never been with RB , but his videos are top of the line Knowledge. 

I think I have either owned or rode in most everything out there worthy of shallowness. These two gents can definitely deliver. Where I live and where they live are two different worlds on the coast, but I believe both on methods.

Knowledge will not hurt you!


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## railbird (Jan 2, 2009)

Video may be lost. My computer crashed but I think I can have a computer expert retrieve it. The video causes so many people with an axe to grind to lose their minds, it's not worth having it up. The video is 3 years old I have not found the need to duplicate it.


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## mgeistman (Jun 13, 2012)

railbird said:


> Video may be lost. My computer crashed but I think I can have a computer expert retrieve it. The video causes so many people with an axe to grind to lose their minds, it's not worth having it up. The video is 3 years old I have not found the need to duplicate it.


Oh, I doubt I could find a three year old vid either. You should make a new vid. I've been in RFL's plenty, but the owners were always too scared to go shallow(4"-8"), or they would say "No! I like my prop!". He wouldn't let me drive Bc I took him through the back way to fish pond, he freaked out and won't ride with me anymore. So I've never been able to see first hand what one will do.


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## ak (May 6, 2012)

RedfireSVT said:


> weeds are bad, they take o2 out of the water.


Is ^ serious or kidding plants fix carbon by taking in C02 and releasing 02 they dont take in 02 and release C02


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## fowlwaters (Jun 14, 2006)

Nice clean basic boat it is not like Sonny reinvented the wheel. But now it turned into a ******* contest. Nice boat Sonny.


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## ak (May 6, 2012)

I drove my surface drive from bay city all the way to lane city dam Id like to see any of yalls boats do that (airboats excluded). If you know how shallow the river is and all the rocks and grass you should be amazed.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Nov 4, 2011)

ak said:


> I drove my surface drive from bay city all the way to lane city dam Id like to see any of yalls boats do that (airboats excluded). If you know how shallow the river is and all the rocks and grass you should be amazed.


I am amazed. Ill be more amazed if you filmed it.

http://www.fishingscout.com/anglers/SmackDaddy


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## raz1056 (Jun 16, 2006)

mgeistman said:


> Oh, I doubt I could find a three year old vid either. You should make a new vid. I've been in RFL's plenty, but the owners were always too scared to go shallow(4"-8"), or they would say "No! I like my prop!". He wouldn't let me drive Bc I took him through the back way to fish pond, he freaked out and won't ride with me anymore. So I've never been able to see first hand what one will do.


Are you serious? That run scared your buddies? That is a walk in the park for an RFL and a lot of other boats. Run them from from Pats to the north end of pringle without getting out of the lakes on low winter tide. That will make them laugh at the fish pond run.


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## devil1824 (Sep 4, 2010)

atcfisherman said:


> Really???? Amazing answer not even worth answering!!!


I should have added this.  It was a joke.


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## raz1056 (Jun 16, 2006)

Oh and very nice setup Sonny. Another job well done.


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## RedfireSVT (May 15, 2012)

ak said:


> Is ^ serious or kidding plants fix carbon by taking in C02 and releasing 02 they dont take in 02 and release C02


why do you think they tell you to remove all weeds from your trailer? fishing is easier with no weeds as well. win win.


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## ak (May 6, 2012)

RedfireSVT said:


> why do you think they tell you to remove all weeds from your trailer? fishing is easier with no weeds as well. win win.


So you don't contaminate other bodies of water with envasive species ie hydrilla and water lillies.


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## RedfireSVT (May 15, 2012)

ak said:


> So you don't contaminate other bodies of water with envasive species ie hydrilla and water lillies.


c'mon man. :wink:


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## ak (May 6, 2012)

RedfireSVT said:


> c'mon man. :wink:


Haha I was hoping you were joking.:biggrin:


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## troutsupport (May 22, 2006)

Jet drive is the way to go for running skinny. Nice rig.


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## theyallbreak (Jan 29, 2012)

I guess when my son gets his CHRISTmas gift i can film some back lake runs in the RFL. It was scary this last weekend trying to go back to my redfish hole,couple of spots had almost no water. I watched Railbirds video when he had it up he still has me beat. LOL


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## devil1824 (Sep 4, 2010)

I think our CHRISTmas present from Railbird should be to put the video back up tomorrow all day!


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## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

railbird said:


> Video may be lost. My computer crashed but I think I can have a computer expert retrieve it. The video causes so many people with an axe to grind to lose their minds, it's not worth having it up. The video is 3 years old I have not found the need to duplicate it.


I've got your video saved. I just watched it. 

does this look familiar, basically running through mud and water filled trenches for miles?  I really can't believe how your boat did not just suck and stop from the beginning.. I mean, it just keeps going and going... I don't think a jet could do that run. Only an airboat.

We can get a mod to delete this if you don't want these snapshots from the video up. if I am not around and you ask them they can do it, I have no problem if you want these screenshots down.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Nov 4, 2011)

Thats wet dirt

http://www.fishingscout.com/anglers/SmackDaddy


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## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Thats wet dirt
> 
> http://www.fishingscout.com/anglers/SmackDaddy


yes it is... seriously. Some of the run was over dirt, no water, for a good ways. Really amazing.. almost like a hoax video.


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## devil1824 (Sep 4, 2010)

And he is not going very fast either. So anyone thinking that, don't! Look at his other post about speed and cavitation.


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## railbird (Jan 2, 2009)

I am fine with them being up. I'm also happy it still exists. With the wind the way it is today I could probably find the exact same conditions today. Thank you for not replaying it. And yes it was over dirt for about 100 yds at a time. Luckily I was able to get from puddle to puddle and keep the engine cool. Video is in an oilfield channel at an extremely low tide. Sure is slick without that we would have been toast.

If I had been going faster than about 10 mph, I would have been on the bank in the first turn.


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## OffshoreChris (Oct 13, 2010)

Man I wish I could see that video. That looks awesome. Makes me want to go and try and stick my chicks dads RFL


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## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

railbird said:


> I am fine with them being up. I'm also happy it still exists. With the wind the way it is today I could probably find the exact same conditions today. Thank you for not replaying it. And yes it was over dirt for about 100 yds at a time. Luckily I was able to get from puddle to puddle and keep the engine cool. Video is in an oilfield channel at an extremely low tide. Sure is slick without that we would have been toast.
> 
> If I had been going faster than about 10 mph, I would have been on the bank in the first turn.


If you lost your video, PM me your email and I will try to get it to you... it was a large file. You have to keep that video for ever, nothing like it. But if you decide to make another one, will you PM me to join ya? LOL Wait, promise you have an airboat on standby and we won't have to wade mud and push first.

Oh yeah, this is the original version.. My **** LOL


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## railbird (Jan 2, 2009)

No need for an air boat you are going to be on a magic carpet ride. That is what my buddies nicknamed my rig.


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## atcfisherman (Oct 5, 2006)

devil1824 said:


> I should have added this.  It was a joke.


Sorry, I guess I should have waited to post. Open mouth and insert other foot! LOL


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## mgeistman (Jun 13, 2012)

My smart craft would of shut me down in a instant with no water.


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## [email protected] (Jun 25, 2005)

Railbird's Honda has the best water cooling system I have ever seen and it doesn't even have a low water pickup. Yes the RFL's tunnel is great but that honda cooling system enhances that boat's ability to literally run in spit as you can see in the video. Also his top secret home made prop stays hooked up very well and also pushes through mud with ease. Take all of that and add it to his great driving skills and you have that video. It's a shame that there are people that are determined to bring him down every chance he gets otherwise the video could stay up and he could also make new videos and share those as well. And Sonny, that is an awesome setup, you have a great talent and your boats should sell very well.


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## mgeistman (Jun 13, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> Railbird's Honda has the best water cooling system I have ever seen and it doesn't even have a low water pickup. Yes the RFL's tunnel is great but that honda cooling system enhances that boat's ability to literally run in spit as you can see in the video. Also his top secret home made prop stays hooked up very well and also pushes through mud with ease. Take all of that and add it to his great driving skills and you have that video. It's a shame that there are people that are determined to bring him down every chance he gets otherwise the video could stay up and he could also make new videos and share those as well. And Sonny, that is an awesome setup, you have a great talent and your boats should sell very well.


What's different about the Honda? Does it have it's own cooling loop or something?


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## railbird (Jan 2, 2009)

I have done no modifications to the Honda. It is a standard gear case with a prop modification. The water intakes are on the sides instead of the nose cone. This helps keep the screens clean in extreme situations. Soft soupy mud has lots of water and my rfl can squeezers it out and use it. 

I always wonder why no one has ever built an aluminum boat with a heat exchanger system in the hull so a closed loop cooling system could be employed.


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## aTm08 (Dec 30, 2011)

They have been around for a while.

http://mudmonsterboats.com/Motor_Specs.html


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## WVNative (Sep 16, 2010)

I don't need to run this skinny all the time....but when I do....I prefer a Majek RFL......


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## That Robbie Guy (Aug 11, 2009)

aTm08 said:


> They have been around for a while.
> 
> http://mudmonsterboats.com/Motor_Specs.html


I wonder what the prices look like.


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## Fishdog (Jun 22, 2004)

mgeistman said:


> Oh, I doubt I could find a three year old vid either. You should make a new vid. I've been in RFL's plenty, but the owners were always too scared to go shallow(4"-8"), or they would say "No! I like my prop!". He wouldn't let me drive Bc I took him through the back way to fish pond, he freaked out and won't ride with me anymore. So I've never been able to see first hand what one will do.


That's funny - and familiar. New riders on my TRP'd rfl climb off with white knuckles and gasping for air, lol. Then they scream "more!" I can run in 1 - 2" of water and my props never kiss the bottom. No problem, but I've been driving rfl's for almost 20 yrs.


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## longboat (Apr 14, 2008)

aTm08 said:


> They have been around for a while.
> 
> http://mudmonsterboats.com/Motor_Specs.html


I'd thought about doing this about ten years ago - glad to see someone attempting it commercially. Since aluminum is a great heat conductor, it only makes sense to build a heat exchanger into an aluminum hull bottom. Don't know if it'd be enough to cool a 115hp, though...


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## A Draper (Aug 14, 2007)

Ok, I resurrecting this thread. It's only a month since last post. It's funny Pat's post on another site got me thinking and I found this thread. How would one of these jet units work in a lake with subsurface hydrilla? I fish a lot in smaller lakes in east texas out of an aluminum boat. If the mat is topped out like in this picture.









I just drive around it. Many times the mat is 6" below the surface and will wrap up a trolling motor or small outboard. I end up buying a prop or so a year due to the stump filled sabine river. Last year during the early whitebass spawn, we had to pole across some bars. I also fish POC and would love to give more attention to the back lakes but my Triton ain't gonna make it.

Would a jet work in these varied conditions? My guess is matted hydrilla will stop just about anything.


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## mgeistman (Jun 13, 2012)

It won't if you have any grading on the suction.


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## mgeistman (Jun 13, 2012)

My merc eats it up though!!http://2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/showthread.php?t=439538


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## pmgoffjr (Jul 30, 2009)

If it's modified, it should be ok. Stock jet would last about three feet. I can run through foamed up matted seagrass with mine, it hesitates a second, then chews it up and spits it out. 

Grass won't stop me, but an oyster shell will.


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## A Draper (Aug 14, 2007)

Wow, geistman. That vid looks promising. I may stop by Sonny's tomorrow. They hydrilla where if fish is normally attached to the bottom. Easy to see and avoid when topped out but there can be acres just below the surface.


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## SSST (Jun 9, 2011)

Hydrilla and a jet drive are not a good combination, ask the thousands of jet skiers who find this out every year. If there's one built that can suck that up and spit it out, that's one bad jet.


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## mgeistman (Jun 13, 2012)

A Draper said:


> Wow, geistman. That vid looks promising. I may stop by Sonny's tomorrow. They hydrilla where if fish is normally attached to the bottom. Easy to see and avoid when topped out but there can be acres just below the surface.


Sonny can fix you up, but if you have it set up to eat weeds, you gotta stay outta any shell or rocks. Mine isn't a jet though, it's a prop. Thats why I showed the thread to you. A prop drive will work much better for you IMO(nothin against jet drives), a prop will run through shell, rock, or hydrilla. Jets work best on a hard packed sand bottom.


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## weedeater (Aug 22, 2012)

I run a 17x44 tunnel and if you can float over a log the motor will pretty much clear it and if you have enuff water for it to float it will jump up and get on plain









Sent from my VS910 4G using Tapatalk 2


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## A Draper (Aug 14, 2007)

I did stop by and look at the boat at Sonny's on sunday morning. I hoped to get by on saturday but had a fiasco of a day getting the Triton out of slip and on the trailer for yearly maintenance. It's time to get a new trailer. I just keep putting it off. Anyway, Sonny's boat definitely looks interesting. I didn't realize a jet outboard was so tall. The transom was about 6" taller than I would have thought. I was hoping to retrofit a jet to a boat I already own but it's just not going to work. Looks like the jet outboard will be too heavy for the back of the boat at the horsepower output I would need. I'm running a 25hp fourstroke yamaha right now and was thinking about putting a 40 hp jet on it.


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## RedfireSVT (May 15, 2012)

A Draper said:


> I did stop by and look at the boat at Sonny's on sunday morning. I hoped to get by on saturday but had a fiasco of a day getting the Triton out of slip and on the trailer for yearly maintenance. It's time to get a new trailer. I just keep putting it off. Anyway, Sonny's boat definitely looks interesting. I didn't realize a jet outboard was so tall. The transom was about 6" taller than I would have thought. I was hoping to retrofit a jet to a boat I already own but it's just not going to work. Looks like the jet outboard will be too heavy for the back of the boat at the horsepower output I would need. I'm running a 25hp fourstroke yamaha right now and was thinking about putting a 40 hp jet on it.


just get a lift plate for the motor and a 40hp 2 stroke.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Nov 4, 2011)

RedfireSVT said:


> just get a lift plate for the motor and a 40hp 2 stroke.


X2

http://www.fishingscout.com/anglers/SmackDaddy


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## FISHROADIE (Apr 2, 2010)

Very nice boat and motor I have one but its a 30 hp I love it.


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