# Missing Airliner......



## V-Bottom (Jun 16, 2007)

Malaysia Airliner.......ch 360 FOX NEWS.....lost contact 2 hrs into flight over Vietnam early this afternoon......Kaula Lumpur to Beijing.........


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## Tom (Jul 14, 2005)

It seems to me that this thing would have had an EIRB on it that would be yelling Here I am, Help Help Help by now. EPIRB = Emergency Position Indicating Radio Beam.


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## Won Hunglo (Apr 24, 2007)




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## mrau (Mar 17, 2010)

Tom said:


> It seems to me that this thing would have had an EIRB on it that would be yelling Here I am, Help Help Help by now. EPIRB = Emergency Position Indicating Radio Beam.


They have a bunch of triple 7-200s. That plane didn't just divert to some remote strip. It went down very quickly for some reason. There could easily be over 200 people on it, so prayers going out. My guess is this isn't going to end well. A 777 just doesn't go missing.


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## utap1 (Jun 7, 2009)

Uodates


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## mrau (Mar 17, 2010)

Looks like the Vietnamese Air Force spotted a couple of very large slicks in the water near where they lost communications with them. A friend had this pop up as a news alert on his phone at dinner last night and there isn't much new news compared to that initial little blurb, but it looks like all were lost. 

Sounds like 239 people on board, including 3 possibly 4 Americans.


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## bluefin (Aug 16, 2005)

North Korea....?


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## Lat22 (Apr 7, 2005)

777's don't just fall out the sky. Airbuses with French pilots do. This could wind up being terrorism.


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## bluefin (Aug 16, 2005)

You'd think the tower would have gotten a call from one of the pilots. Nothing I've read shows there was any contact at all.


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## V-Bottom (Jun 16, 2007)

Harry Kari ?


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## Spooley (Feb 24, 2013)

A couple stolen Italian passports showed up on the flight manifest, according to news this morning. Could be terroristic activity since it went down too quickly for a mayday.


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## tec (Jul 20, 2007)

Two oil slicks indicates the plane was in at least two pieces when it hit the water.


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## BullyARed (Jun 19, 2010)

Prayers to all the victims and their families. May they seek comfort in God in this time.


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## mrau (Mar 17, 2010)

Spooley said:


> A couple stolen Italian passports showed up on the flight manifest, according to news this morning. Could be terroristic activity since it went down too quickly for a mayday.


That's definitely the 800 pound gorilla the media is ignoring so far. I don't know the area, but it looks like they should have been in radio contact the entire time. They weren't half way across the North Atlantic on a track or anything like that. Even in that situation there are still other aircraft close enough to talk to. Should have been plenty of time to radio someone about a problem.

All just speculation now, but something happened to them very quickly. Too many backup systems for a mechanical issue to bring them down that fast. Whole lot of souls lost ... prayers out to them and their loved ones.


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## TranTheMan (Aug 17, 2009)

mrau said:


> Looks like the Vietnamese Air Force spotted a couple of very large slicks in the water near where they lost communications with them. A friend had this pop up as a news alert on his phone at dinner last night and there isn't much new news compared to that initial little blurb, but it looks like all were lost.
> 
> Sounds like 239 people on board, including 3 possibly 4 Americans.


http://vnexpress.net/tin-tuc/thoi-s...em-nghi-van-roi-may-bay-malaysia-2961139.html

The link has picture of the 20 km long oil slick plus map.

A rough translation of the essential info:

Around 16:30 local time a surveillance aircraft from Viet Nam reported a probable oil slick at 0755N - 1031852E within the FIR of VN.
...

It will take 3-4 hours for the dispatched ships to get to the location, approximately around 22:00 -23:00 local time ...


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## V-Bottom (Jun 16, 2007)

Pilots radio in at certain check points along their route. Position, altitude,speed etc.


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## mrau (Mar 17, 2010)

V-Bottom said:


> Pilots radio in at certain check points along their route. Position, altitude,speed etc.


Some very remote regions you can't. Controllers will assign you a flight level and Mach number (airspeed) prior to losing radio contact. You maintain that exactly to maintain safe spacing with traffic ahead and behind you until you reach the next area of radio coverage. I don't think that was the case here though.


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## beaucp (Apr 8, 2011)

Two of the passengers boarded with stolen passports. 
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ysia-airlines-beijing-flight-missing/6199161/


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## bluefin (Aug 16, 2005)

http://news.yahoo.com/why-malaysia-airlines-jet-might-disappeared-213133681.html

Some possibilities:

â€" A catastrophic structural failure of the airframe or its Rolls-Royce Trent 800 engines. Most aircraft are made of aluminum which is susceptible to corrosion over time, especially in areas of high humidity. But given the plane's long history and impressive safety record, experts suggest this is unlikely.
More of a threat to the plane's integrity is the constant pressurization and depressurization of the cabin for takeoff and landing. In April 2011, a Southwest Airlines Boeing 737 made an emergency landing shortly after takeoff from Phoenix after the plane's fuselage ruptured, causing a 5-foot tear. The plane, with 118 people on board, landed safely. But such a rupture is less likely in this case. Airlines fly the 777 on longer distances, with many fewer takeoffs and landings, putting less stress on the airframe.
â€" Bad weather. Planes are designed to fly through most severe storms. However, in June 2009, an Air France flight from Rio de Janeiro to Paris crashed during a bad storm over the Atlantic Ocean. Ice built up on the Airbus A330's airspeed indicators, giving false readings. That, and bad decisions by the pilots, led the plane into a stall causing it to plummet into the sea. All 228 passengers and crew aboard died. The pilots never radioed for help.
In the case of Saturday's Malaysia Airlines flight, all indications show that there were clear skies.
â€" Pilot disorientation. Curtis said that the pilots could have taken the plane off autopilot and somehow went off course and didn't realize it until it was too late. The plane could have flown for another five or six hours from its point of last contact, putting it up to 3,000 miles away. This is unlikely given that the plane probably would have been picked up by radar somewhere. But it's too early to eliminate it as a possibility.
â€" Failure of both engines. In January 2008, a British Airways 777 crashed about 1,000 feet short of the runway at London's Heathrow Airport. As the plane was coming in to land, the engines lost thrust because of ice buildup in the fuel system. There were no fatalities.
Loss of both engines is possible in this case, but Hamilton said the plane could glide for up to 20 minutes, giving pilots plenty of time to make an emergency call. When a US Airways A320 lost both of its engines in January 2009 after taking off from LaGuardia Airport in New York it was at a much lower elevation. But Capt. Chesley B. "Sully" Sullenberger still had plenty of communications with air traffic controllers before ending the six-minute flight in the Hudson River.
â€" A bomb. Several planes have been brought down including Pan Am Flight 103 between London and New York in December 1988. There was also an Air India flight in June 1985 between Montreal and London and a plane in September 1989 flown by French airline Union des Transports AÃ©riens which blew up over the Sahara.
â€" Hijacking. A traditional hijacking seems unlikely given that a plane's captors typically land at an airport and have some type of demand. But a 9/11-like hijacking is possible, with terrorists forcing the plane into the ocean.
â€" Pilot suicide. There were two large jet crashes in the late 1990s â€" a SilkAir flight and an EgyptAir flightâ€" that are believed to have been caused by pilots deliberately crashing the planes. Government crash investigators never formally declared the crashes suicides but both are widely acknowledged by crash experts to have been caused by deliberate pilot actions.
â€" Accidental shoot-down by some country's military. In July 1988, the United States Navy missile cruiser USS Vincennes accidently shot down an Iran Air flight, killing all 290 passengers and crew. In September 1983, a Korean Air Lines flight was shot down by a Russian fighter jet.


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## Cudkilla (Nov 5, 2004)

North Texas Resident among those missing on that flight. And 20 texas based Freescale employees.

http://thescoopblog.dallasnews.com/...g-malaysian-air-flight-from-north-texas.html/

Sad.


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## JShupe (Oct 17, 2004)

*My thoughts*

I feel like there are 3 scenarios that could have played out being that radio contact simply went black.

1) the plane was blown up with a bomb and went down.

2) the plane was overtaken by the stolen passport folks and driven into the ocean on purpose.

3) the plane lost cabin pressure which creates Hypoxia (everyone turns into Popsicles) and the pilots slumps over the yolk driving the plane into the ocean.

It's going to be interesting to see how this plays out.. You know one thing our media will spin it probably if it is that nasty word "terrorist"


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## Shallow_Minded (Sep 21, 2004)

Lat22 said:


> 777's don't just fall out the sky. Airbuses with French pilots do. This could wind up being terrorism.


Tell that to the people of flight 800. What a :an5: remark....


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## bluefin (Aug 16, 2005)

Ever fly Southwest?

From my previous post this was in the article talking about lpossible catastrophic structural failure:
But such a rupture is less likely in this case. Airlines fly the 777 on longer distances, with many fewer takeoffs and landings, putting less stress on the airframe.
"_It's not like this was Southwest Airlines doing 10 flights a day_," Hamilton said. "There's nothing to suggest there would be any fatigue issues."


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## RRbohemian (Dec 20, 2009)

Cudkilla said:


> North Texas Resident among those missing on that flight. And 20 texas based Freescale employees.
> 
> http://thescoopblog.dallasnews.com/...g-malaysian-air-flight-from-north-texas.html/
> 
> Sad.


Yep, this hits home. Anyone who works for a high tech firm(especially a semi conductor company)has ties to employees who travel and work in Malaysia. I haven't been to that part of the world but I have been to the far east and I have a lot of coworkers who have been to Malaysia. I'm sure we have people there now and thank God none of my company's employees were on the plane. I think a few now will think twice of traveling there IF this becomes a terrorist act. I know I will. All we can do now is pray for those poor souls lost to such a tragedy.


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## Brian Castille (May 27, 2004)

If it crashed either on land or in the ocean, you would think there would be a huge debris field that someone would have found by now. Maybe it was hijacked, all communications turned off and flown somewhere and landed in the middle of nowhere? Just seems too crazy that it just "disappeared".


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## JShupe (Oct 17, 2004)

Brian Castille said:


> If it crashed either on land or in the ocean, you would think there would be a huge debris field that someone would have found by now. Maybe it was hijacked, all communications turned off and flown somewhere and landed in the middle of nowhere? Just seems too crazy that it just "disappeared".


I could see this as a possibility however with mobile phones these days wouldn't you think someone would have reached the outside by now?

JS


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## BullyARed (Jun 19, 2010)

JShupe said:


> I feel like there are 3 scenarios that could have played out being that radio contact simply went black.
> 
> 1) the plane was blown up with a bomb and went down.
> 
> ...


====

They have found only oil trace but debris!


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## JShupe (Oct 17, 2004)

I understand fully Bully... The area where it could have gone down is so incredibly vast it could take days to cover it all.

And the oil trace might not be from the plane.


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## Brian Castille (May 27, 2004)

JShupe said:


> I could see this as a possibility however with mobile phones these days wouldn't you think someone would have reached the outside by now?
> 
> JS


Could be in a place without any signal or the hijackers could have taken all the phones away.

I am guessing we'll find out more in the next few days.....


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## V-Bottom (Jun 16, 2007)

What ever the case may be w/ this plane and it's passengers, just remember....tomorrow isn't promised to anybody...please be ready.


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## Poon Chaser (Aug 22, 2006)

Cudkilla said:


> North Texas Resident among those missing on that flight. And 20 texas based Freescale employees.
> 
> http://thescoopblog.dallasnews.com/...g-malaysian-air-flight-from-north-texas.html/
> 
> Sad.


Wow... Freescale is a customer of mine. They are a chip manufacturer like Intel. huh


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## utap1 (Jun 7, 2009)

No bueno


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## Cudkilla (Nov 5, 2004)

Latest is that Malaysian radar shows plane turning back towards land. The pics of the oil slicks look like crude and not jet fuel which is much lighter like kerosene. Absence of debris is a real mystery. My money is on a deliberate act. Flight Aware show plane climbing past 30k ft before it lost contact. Thoughts and prayers to the families of those affected.


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

Cudkilla said:


> North Texas Resident among those missing on that flight. And 20 texas based Freescale employees.
> 
> http://thescoopblog.dallasnews.com/...g-malaysian-air-flight-from-north-texas.html/
> 
> Sad.


And for the latest conspiracy theory report..... From last week..

http://www.wired.com/design/2013/02/freescales-tiny-arm-chip

Chipmaker Freescale Semiconductor has created the worldâ€™s smallest ARM-powered chip, designed to push the world of connected devices into surprising places.
Announced today, the Kinetis KL02 measures just 1.9 by 2 millimeters. Itâ€™s a full microcontroller unit (MCU), meaning the chip sports a processor, RAM, ROM, clock and I/O control unit â€" everything a body needs to be a basic tiny computer.
The KL02 has 32k of flash memory, 4k of RAM, a 32 bit processor, and peripherals like a 12-bit analog to digital converter and a low-power UART built into the chip. By including these extra parts, device makers can  shrink down their designs, resulting in tiny boards in tiny devices.
How tiny? One application that Freescale says the chips could be used for is swallowable computers. Yes, you read that right. â€œWe are working with our customers and partners on providing technology for their products that can be swallowed but we canâ€™t really comment on unannounced products,â€ says Steve Tateosian, global product marketing manager.
The KL02 is part of Freescaleâ€™s push to make chips tailored to the Internet of Things. Between the onboard peripherals and a power-management system tuned to the chemistry of current generation batteries, the KL02 is intended to be at the heart of a network of connected objects, moving from shoes that wirelessly report your steps (a natural evolution of Nike+) to pipes that warn you when they are leaking.
There are some clues we can glean about how this chip might end up inside our digestive tracts. Freescale already works with a variety of health and wellness customers. Both the Fitbit and OmniPod insulin pump use Freescale chips. Itâ€™s not hard to imagine a new generation of devices designed to monitor your internal health or release drugs and medicine from within your body. Such tiny implements, however, also creates the possibility that discarded micro-devices could soon collect in sewers and waste treatment plants.
Though Mooreâ€™s law has become largely uninteresting at the scale of desktop and laptop computers (when all youâ€™re doing is watching videos, writing, and surfing the web, you donâ€™t need that much power), there is still plenty of room at the bottom.
â€œWe come across hundreds of [microcontrollers] embedded in the devices we use throughout the day,â€ says Tateosian. â€œFor example, you may come across them when your alarm wakes you up, you brush your teeth, make your coffee, unlock your car door, open your garage, put down the car window, pay the parking meter, tell the time on your watch, measure your heart rate, distance, and pace. While running you may listen to your music player with several controllers inside, including in the ear buds themselves.â€
Though itâ€™s going to be available for general retail, Freescale says that the KL02 was specifically designed in response to a customerâ€™s request. (They arenâ€™t saying who.) There was a need for a chip smaller than 3 by 3 mm and this was the result. Who needs a chip this tiny? We look forward to finding out â€" we think."


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## Won Hunglo (Apr 24, 2007)

Debris reported as found. Looks like they have a door.


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## Shallow_Minded (Sep 21, 2004)

Doors don't float


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## bluefin (Aug 16, 2005)

Where's the black box? 
Thought those things were like super-sonic EPIRB's.


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

bluefin said:


> Where's the black box?
> Thought those things were like super-sonic EPIRB's.


If it's working, it could take a while to find them if they're four or five miles deep..


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## Tortuga (May 21, 2004)

With the plane just dissappearing from contact in a second at 30 thousand feet it just has to be a bomb of some kind...


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## Gottagofishin (Dec 17, 2005)

Tortuga said:


> With the plane just dissappearing from contact in a second at 30 thousand feet it just has to be a bomb of some kind...


 Or it could have been stolen. It would explain the lack of debris if they don't find any.

I don't even want to think about the implications of that.


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## Shallow_Minded (Sep 21, 2004)

UFO abduction


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## V-Bottom (Jun 16, 2007)

*Shallow Minded Indeed......*



Shallow Minded said:


> UFO abduction


 That comment was uncalled for......human lives are at stake here. You may be funnin' but be cool.....


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## Flat Trout (Aug 2, 2011)

Testing shows the slick is not from the missing airplane. Debris found was not part of the missing airplane, they are back at square one.


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## DCAVA (Aug 5, 2013)

The whole deal is strange, hope they find out what happened......


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## 61Bubbletop (Apr 29, 2011)

Three days & not a trace of anything. Very weird indeed.


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## Poon Chaser (Aug 22, 2006)

Gottagofishin said:


> Or it could have been stolen. It would explain the lack of debris if they don't find any.
> 
> I don't even want to think about the implications of that.


That's what I'm thinking. But, there was a plane that went down a few years ago over an ocean and it too quite awhile to find the debris trail. And they knew kinda where that on was

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


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## MikeV (Jun 5, 2006)

Gottagofishin said:


> Or it could have been stolen. It would explain the lack of debris if they don't find any.
> 
> I don't even want to think about the implications of that.


Can a "stolen" plane be hidden from radar?


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## Gottagofishin (Dec 17, 2005)

MikeV said:


> Can a "stolen" plane be hidden from radar?


If you really knew what you were doing. It would take a lot of resources and planning, but from what I understand it is possible.


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## On The Hook (Feb 24, 2009)

MikeV said:


> Can a "stolen" plane be hidden from radar?


Radar isn't everywhere, nor is it available at every altitude in areas that have radar. That said, I think it would likely be a fair amount of work to hide a bird as big as a 777 with all its systems. There are different types of radar and different types of "targets" as air traffic controll calls them, that show up on radar as different types of "blips".

Its definantly strange that no debris field has been found, but they may not know exactly where to look. Lets hope for a good outcome,but unfortunately, I don't think that's likely.


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## TranTheMan (Aug 17, 2009)

Gottagofishin said:


> If you really knew what you were doing. It would take a lot of resources and planning, but from what I understand it is possible.


In 007 Thunderbolt movie the bad guy stole a British Vulcan to get the nuclear bombs ... but that was a movie. The 777 is just huge and will require a sizable landing clearance somewhere if it were stolen. I am sure the US, French, Chinese satellites are scanning the areas right now. It is hard to conceal a 10,000 feet clearance.


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## Shallow_Minded (Sep 21, 2004)

V-Bottom said:


> That comment was uncalled for......human lives are at stake here. You may be funnin' but be cool.....


Lighten up Francis, I believe everyone knows lives were lost. The comment was more or less a parody because at this point no one has a clue what happened.

Sooner or later we'll know the facts.


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## Shallow_Minded (Sep 21, 2004)

An 777 cannot be hidden from radar, especially in that part of the world. It's tracked not only by radar but GPS as well. That's what makes this disappearing so strange.


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

On The Hook said:


> Radar isn't everywhere, nor is it available at every altitude in areas that have radar. That said, I think it would likely be a fair amount of work to hide a bird as big as a 777 with all its systems. There are different types of radar and different types of "targets" as air traffic controll calls them, that show up on radar as different types of "blips".
> 
> Its definantly strange that no debris field has been found, but they may not know exactly where to look. Lets hope for a good outcome,but unfortunately, I don't think that's likely.


All you really have to do is turn off the transponder: Military radar will pick up an aircraft with no transponder, but civilian ATC radar won't, at least not out in the middle of the ocean. Turn it off, and it just disappears. If a military unit happens to pick it up, that'd just be coincidental, but otherwise you'd never know where it went. They could also just switch transponder signals, if they know what they're doing, and just "become" an old piece of junk cargo aircraft headed for North Korea as far as anybody looking at a radar screen is concerned.


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## Gottagofishin (Dec 17, 2005)

Shallow Minded said:


> An 777 cannot be hidden from radar, especially in that part of the world. It's tracked not only by radar but GPS as well. That's what makes this disappearing so strange.


if it had been on radar they would know where to look. It was out of range of any civilian radar which is why the search area is so large.

Drop turn off the transponder and down to the deck, or switch transponder signals and fly it into NK as DW says. There are a number of other hostile places that would also be in range of a 777.


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## ccbluewater (May 21, 2004)

Who knows. Probably crashed, but the scenarios are endless. With the time frame of the plane going missing, to being reported as such, if a hijacking and reroute occurred, they had several hours to get somewhere. How they would do it without someone seeing or knowing something is beyond me, and I don't necessarily believe the plane is still in one piece, anywhere. With Air France 447 it took like 5-6 days to find any debris.


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## Won Hunglo (Apr 24, 2007)

Shallow Minded said:


> Lighten up Francis,* I believe everyone knows lives were lost.* The comment was more or less a parody because at this point no one has a clue what happened.
> 
> Sooner or later we'll know the facts.


That we don't know yet. The pilot could have pulled off a Sullenberger type landing and they are waiting to be rescued. Until we find clues, we just don't know for sure.


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## On The Hook (Feb 24, 2009)

dwilliams35 said:


> All you really have to do is turn off the transponder: Military radar will pick up an aircraft with no transponder, but civilian ATC radar won't, at least not out in the middle of the ocean. Turn it off, and it just disappears. If a military unit happens to pick it up, that'd just be coincidental, but otherwise you'd never know where it went. They could also just switch transponder signals, if they know what they're doing, and just "become" an old piece of junk cargo aircraft headed for North Korea as far as anybody looking at a radar screen is concerned.


Civilian air traffic radar can track a target without a transponder signal, but they won't have all the details such as altitude, mode c, or mode s info. Military radar may offer info that civilian systems don't, but I'm not sure. A 777 will give a strong radar signature to a normal ground based atc radar system if its in range. Heck, they can see a Cessna 150 or small helicopter, a 777 should be no problem. We get traffic calls from atc regularly from atc for aircraft without transponders or communication radios. In most airspace a radio and transponder are not required for flight. Going into a bravo, Charlie, or class a airspace and maybe a few others would require said equipment.


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## jamisjockey (Jul 30, 2009)

dwilliams35 said:


> All you really have to do is turn off the transponder: Military radar will pick up an aircraft with no transponder, but civilian ATC radar won't, at least not out in the middle of the ocean. Turn it off, and it just disappears. If a military unit happens to pick it up, that'd just be coincidental, but otherwise you'd never know where it went. They could also just switch transponder signals, if they know what they're doing, and just "become" an old piece of junk cargo aircraft headed for North Korea as far as anybody looking at a radar screen is concerned.


False. Transponders are line of sight just the same as radar is. The antennae for the transponder is co-located with ground based radar. 
Much of the ATC over water is done via non-radar. Times, fixes, altitudes. Some stretches in some areas there isn't even radio coverage. You call the other country/sector and inform them they should be getting the aircraft by xx:xx time. 
Some countries pretty much don't have any radar coverage, it's all non-radar ATC.

What would I know, though.... :mpd:

The FAA is implementing a new satellite based navigation that provides radar coverage over areas that are out of sight of land based radar. That will only be based on a transponder signal, though.

The real question is if the plane was even under radar service at that time. If they were out of radar coverage, then the controller was waiting for them to report a fix. And there is a fudge factor built in, depending on the distance between fixes and a few other factors.
Obviously, if there was military radar, they'd go back and look at that data after the fact to try and get a fix on the location.


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## Shallow_Minded (Sep 21, 2004)

dwilliams35 said:


> All you really have to do is turn off the transponder: Military radar will pick up an aircraft with no transponder, but civilian ATC radar won't, at least not out in the middle of the ocean. Turn it off, and it just disappears. If a military unit happens to pick it up, that'd just be coincidental, but otherwise you'd never know where it went. They could also just switch transponder signals, if they know what they're doing, and just "become" an old piece of junk cargo aircraft headed for North Korea as far as anybody looking at a radar screen is concerned.


Not true. The transponder's purpose is only to identify the aircraft by tail number and company. It's also used in the TCAS avoidance system now required on all commercial aircraft. The aircraft, (especially a 777) still puts out a very large radar signature picked up by any commercial or military radar. Military radar alone covers more than that entire region especially with the hostile environments those countries. Trust me, that aircraft was seen by radar.


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

jamisjockey said:


> False. Transponders are line of sight just the same as radar is. The antennae for the transponder is co-located with ground based radar.
> Much of the ATC over water is done via non-radar. Times, fixes, altitudes. Some stretches in some areas there isn't even radio coverage. You call the other country/sector and inform them they should be getting the aircraft by xx:xx time.
> Some countries pretty much don't have any radar coverage, it's all non-radar ATC.
> 
> ...


The main thing with the transponder is for lack of a better term, intensity: they may get a signal, but it's just essentially trash: turn on the transponder and it instantly becomes a solid signal worthy of the ATC's attention. One way or another, without that coding on their screens, an ATC isn't going to pay all that much attention to an aircraft without a transponder while he's dealing with all the stuff that he KNOWS is an airplane he needs to worry about. Thus the issue: they turn off the squawk, and they can do anything they want to with that plane that far out: turn the sucker around, put it in the drink, go to the aforementioned North Korea, etc.; for all intents and purposes, it's no longer a plane as far as ATC radar is concerned.


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## Shallow_Minded (Sep 21, 2004)

Not really, they still see it plus being a 777 it still puts out a good signal. Turn it off and that really gets their attention. Trust me on this one, (personal experience) if your sircraft is being tracked vie transponder and you suddenly turn it off you will be notified in an urgent matter as to what happened. In addition most airlines use the ACARS system which also communicates with all aircraft.


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## Waymore (Jul 6, 2011)

My guess is the plane was blown up in flight, hense no may-day or radio transmission. I hope that wasn't the case, but it don't look good!


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## Tortuga (May 21, 2004)

Waymore said:


> My guess is the plane was blown up in flight, hense no may-day or radio transmission. I hope that wasn't the case, but it don't look good!


That would be my guess too, Waymore. No other explanation makes sense. Malaysia is Al-Queda Central these days from what I read.... Dammed shame....sad3sm


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## Momma's Worry (Aug 3, 2009)

*777*

that aircraft is on the bottom of the ocean ...just like the French trip-7 is in the south Atlantic....a catastrophic failure over water, again,with no trace....not unusual at all .....after a billion $$$ spent the US military will more than likely find what is left of it ....or get Dr Ballard ,he can find anything on the bottom ....RIP


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## jamisjockey (Jul 30, 2009)

Momma's Worry said:


> that aircraft is on the bottom of the ocean ...just like the French trip-7 is in the south Atlantic....a catastrophic failure over water, again,with no trace....not unusual at all .....after a billion $$$ spent the US military will more than likely find what is left of it ....or get Dr Ballard ,he can find anything on the bottom ....RIP


That was a 747. There have only been 3 777 accidents. One was engine ice in Britian, which was then fixed on the 777. The second is when We Tu Luw and Ho Le Shift crashed in SFO, which was clearly pilot error.


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## TranTheMan (Aug 17, 2009)

>just like the French trip-7 is in the south Atlantic...
That was an Air France Airbus A330, not Boeing 777. It crashed into a rather deep part of South Atlantic. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_447)

Anyway the areas they are searching now are busy sea lanes, neither large nor deep. Malays are mobilizing 1,700 fishing boats to look for debris.


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## Shallow_Minded (Sep 21, 2004)

Waymore said:


> My guess is the plane was blown up in flight, hense no may-day or radio transmission. I hope that wasn't the case, but it don't look good!


I'm still not sure I believe this. If the aircraft was blown up surely some debris would be floating. Heck, all the seat cushions are floatation devices not to mention all the other crud that floats.


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## jamisjockey (Jul 30, 2009)

dwilliams35 said:


> The main thing with the transponder is for lack of a better term, intensity: they may get a signal, but it's just essentially trash: turn on the transponder and it instantly becomes a solid signal worthy of the ATC's attention. One way or another, without that coding on their screens, an ATC isn't going to pay all that much attention to an aircraft without a transponder while he's dealing with all the stuff that he KNOWS is an airplane he needs to worry about. Thus the issue: they turn off the squawk, and they can do anything they want to with that plane that far out: turn the sucker around, put it in the drink, go to the aforementioned North Korea, etc.; for all intents and purposes, it's no longer a plane as far as ATC radar is concerned.


Lulz. If the aircraft was under radar coverage, they would have noticed the transponder being turned off. And you'd have a solid radar target if you have a solid transponder hit. 
A fresh target that's not transponder equipped? Sure. Could be trash.
A previously radar identified passenger jet's transponder being turned off? Professional controllers around the world will notice that pretty quickly. And track the primary target. There are even tools to make the radar keep an eye on a target that doesn't have a transponder.

How do I know?
Only sixteen years as a controller under my belt.


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## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

Pilot error has historically been the primary reason for loss of an aircraft.


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## Cudkilla (Nov 5, 2004)

That whole region is a busy one. Lots of fishing boats, coast guard and patrol boats from so many different countries, commercial ships etc. Not to mention pirates. It is truly surprising that nothing has shown up. I have fished in that region in my early years and let me just say that you're not alone very often out there.


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## Hollywood1053 (May 15, 2009)

I just heard on the news that the 2 people who boarded with the stolen passports bought their tickets at the same place and time.
Interesting coincidence.


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## donaken (Nov 25, 2010)

*Hmm..*



Waymore said:


> My guess is the plane was blown up in flight, hense no may-day or radio transmission. I hope that wasn't the case, but it don't look good!


^Very possible....but, I would think there would be big pieces that floated to the surface....my guess, the cockpit was breach and it was driven into the ocean at some ungodly speed from 35k feet....history shows what remains from that kind of impact....question for the controller...can or do the planes themselves send out any kind of alert in that kind of distress? Like the planes flyin vertical vs horizontal? Or is it only something recorded to find later? Only hope it was a terrible tragedy vs an act of terrorism....


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## SURF Buster (Feb 17, 2008)

Could they be looking in the wrong place? Lot's of jungle they flew over.


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## Ruthless53 (Jul 6, 2007)

donaken said:


> ^Very possible....but, I would think there would be big pieces that floated to the surface....my guess, the cockpit was breach and it was driven into the ocean at some ungodly speed from 35k feet....history shows what remains from that kind of impact....question for the controller...can or do the planes themselves send out any kind of alert in that kind of distress? Like the planes flyin vertical vs horizontal? Or is it only something recorded to find later? Only hope it was a terrible tragedy vs an act of terrorism....


As far as i know it doesnt send out an automatic distess signal except for an ELT which is similar to an epirb. It would be activated once the plane crashed. Blackboard should also be transmitting even if the plane was blown up. I just dont know how well it works under water. I believe i heard the water was only around 100 feet in the initial search area.

The transponder would shown on the controllers screen what altitude and speed they were at. Unless there was a major malfunction they would have been able to see the plane on radar from flight level to impact and could tell speed and altitude the whole way down. In this cas it "supposedly" just vanished. i dont understand how that can happen in an area with that much radar coverage. Mode C tells all of that info even if im squawking 1200 (vfr) but once i file a plan or request flight following then they give me a different code which tells them everything about me. Mode C is the minimum required on a any airplane include small ones I fly to enter into Class B airspace (Intercontinental, Hobby). Airlines have much more sophisticated stuff.

Think a spot on our boat vs AIS on Donaken. If I turn the spot on and give them a way to find me they can. Your AIS gives ships the name of the vessel, speed, course ect. Except I don't think they can willingly turn theirs off like you can an AIS or I can my mode C transponder.


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## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

donaken said:


> ^Very possible....but, I would think there would be big pieces that floated to the surface....my guess, the cockpit was breach and it was driven into the ocean at some ungodly speed from 35k feet....history shows what remains from that kind of impact....question for the controller...can or do the planes themselves send out any kind of alert in that kind of distress? Like the planes flyin vertical vs horizontal? Or is it only something recorded to find later? Only hope it was a terrible tragedy vs an act of terrorism....


The last thing they did was change course with the auto pilot. 5 miles is a very short distance in that plane, particularly down. The pilot is a very highly skilled computer operator. Just like when we run offshore on AP, making the turns correctly is essential. Glass cockpits and electronic controls depend on a lot of things to work correctly together. Starting with the guy that reset the course.


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## TranTheMan (Aug 17, 2009)

SURF Buster said:


> Could they be looking in the wrong place? Lot's of jungle they flew over.


Yes ^^^^


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## V-Bottom (Jun 16, 2007)

^^^^^^ if they made it over land at all........


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## jesco (Jun 23, 2013)

If terrorists involved, would have thought they would take credit/ make statement by now...


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## Profish00 (May 21, 2004)

jesco said:


> If terrorists involved, would have thought they would take credit/ make statement by now...


Just letting other terrorist survivors that were involved get back to camp first.


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## donaken (Nov 25, 2010)

*Terrorist....?*

Good analogy Will and I agree with your statement Mont....my wife thinks it's in the jungle somewhere, as stated....the only reason I can fathom there was no mayday, is they were incapacitated and unable....as sad as it it to say, I hope it was something mechanical or pilot error...wife did hear on the news, some unknown Chinese group has taken credit...


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## BonesNTX (Aug 14, 2006)

Pilots may have been too busy flying for radio contact. Sometimes things get busy.

I have made too many crossings in a 777. All commercial flights scare me but I am plagued with being an Engineer with Aerospace experience. I worry about stuff. They scared me when I was younger and the DE-regulations came to save money. Not said it was for cost cutting but maintenance was drastically cut. I am sure they quit that in the 1980s and the 1990s and the 2000s. Of course that stuff is all regulated by governments so we are A OK.

That plane is a flying mainframe. Once it starts malfunctioning, it only takes milliseconds to be on it's way somewhere out of schedule.

Terrorists...Sure...Maybe.

Wackos...Sure...Maybe.

Pilot Error...Well...Maybe.

Hijacked...Well...Maybe

Malfunction...

Dang thing is gone and full of people. That sux.

Ever see the TV series _*Lost. *_Absolute fantasy but a good one.


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## Spooley (Feb 24, 2013)

Occum's Razor has the answer as always.


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## Pocketfisherman (May 30, 2005)

Both of the passengers who boarded with stolen passports had tickets purchased for them by an Iranian businessman using cash. That is the story on the 10pm news tonight.


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## Spooley (Feb 24, 2013)

*One way tickets to Paradise*



Pocketfisherman said:


> Both of the passengers who boarded with stolen passports had tickets purchased for them by an Iranian businessman using cash. That is the story on the 10pm news tonight.


Those two with stolen passports purchased one-way tickets which is highly indicative that they were all headed to Paradise to collect their reward virgins from the religion of peace.:doowapsta


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## weedeater (Aug 22, 2012)

Spooley said:


> Those two with stolen passports purchased one-way tickets which is highly indicative that they were all headed to Paradise to collect their reward virgins from the religion of peace.:doowapsta


hope they enjoy their goats


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## jamisjockey (Jul 30, 2009)

donaken said:


> ^Very possible....but, I would think there would be big pieces that floated to the surface....my guess, the cockpit was breach and it was driven into the ocean at some ungodly speed from 35k feet....history shows what remains from that kind of impact....question for the controller...can or do the planes themselves send out any kind of alert in that kind of distress? Like the planes flyin vertical vs horizontal? Or is it only something recorded to find later? Only hope it was a terrible tragedy vs an act of terrorism....


Not directly, no. There is ACARS in the cockpit, which basically is satcom for the crew to stay in contact with the company. It transmits flight information to the company, and they can pass messages such as WX delays, etc to the crew.
It also can transmit maintenance info to the ground crews.

Older ACARS is VHF based, with a range of about 200 miles (per the wiki).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACARS

http://news.yahoo.com/man-stolen-passport-jet-asylum-seeker-073509746.html
Nooz is now reporting that at least one of the stolen passport guys was trying to get into Germany illegally. Asia is known as a hotbed of smuggling etc anyways. Seems like a very strange target for a terrorist attack, a 777 from Malaysia to Beijing?

Also, the military is finally reporting that it was indeed tracking the aircraft and believes it made a U-turn.

I still haven't read a fully coherent story from the news on just how far they had radar coverage on the aircraft. Were they indeed watching it on radar? Or was it a non-radar service area? It's puzzling.


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## TranTheMan (Aug 17, 2009)

Pocketfisherman said:


> Both of the passengers who boarded with stolen passports had tickets purchased for them by an Iranian businessman using cash. That is the story on the 10pm news tonight.


This link has their pictures before boarding. 
http://vnexpress.net/tin-tuc/the-gioi/lo-dien-nguoi-dung-ho-chieu-bi-danh-cap-len-mh370-2962246.html

The Malaysian authority thinks that they had no link to any terrorist groups, just some illegals trying to get into Germany via China.

It seems at the airport check in as long as you can show an ID with a name that matches the name on the ticket, you are in. The ID could have been bought from a stall at a flea market or picked up on the street as far as anyone knows. I travel a lot and not once that I saw any effort from the security staffs to see if the IDs I showed really were mine.


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## V-Bottom (Jun 16, 2007)

Some news flying around about oneof those Iranians was seeking asylum in Germany. Used his own passport to get to Malaysia and then used the stolen one to go to Bejing. Were not considered terrorists!! The co-pilot was known to have invited people INSIDE the cockpit to sit and view flights, he also smoked in the cockpit.....The people that said they flew ''up front w/ the driver'' said they took pictures etc. and the pilot was operating ''professionally''...during the flight. Yeah Right !!


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## MB (Mar 6, 2006)

*Update from Reuters*

Here's an update: Malaysia military tracked missing plane to west coast: source

Quote: "It changed course after Kota Bharu and took a lower altitude. It made it into the Malacca Strait," the senior military officer, who has been briefed on investigations, told Reuters.

That would appear to rule out sudden catastrophic mechanical failure, as it would mean the plane flew around 500 km (350 miles) at least after its last contact with air traffic control, although its transponder and other tracking systems were off.

*MB*

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/11/us-malaysiaairlines-flight-idUSBREA2701720140311


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## gigem87 (May 19, 2006)

my money is on failed hijacking


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## bluefin (Aug 16, 2005)

From the article MB linked:
"although its transponder and other tracking systems were off."
"The effect of turning off the transponder is to make the aircraft inert to secondary radar, so civil controllers cannot identify it. Secondary radar interrogates the transponder and gets information about the plane's identity, speed and height."

So help me understand - why would a civilian passenger plane turn off it's transponder and tracking systems? Why would the plane/pilot even have an option to turn it off?


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## Jerry-rigged (May 21, 2004)

bluefin said:


> From the article MB linked:
> "although its transponder and other tracking systems were off."
> "The effect of turning off the transponder is to make the aircraft inert to secondary radar, so civil controllers cannot identify it. Secondary radar interrogates the transponder and gets information about the plane's identity, speed and height."
> 
> So help me understand - why would a civilian passenger plane turn off it's transponder and tracking systems? Why would the plane/pilot even have an option to turn it off?


I am not a pilot, but as I understand it the pilot turns the transponders on and off as a "routine" part of flight. They also re-code the flight # on the transponder to make sure they have an original # for whatever air controller radar they are flying under. Also, as I understand it, there is a code for "hyjack" they can easily code into the transponder. The fact that the transponder was turned off instead of being switched to hyjack shows that (maybe) either there was little warning, or the pilot was in on it.

Also, as I understand it, the "black box" transponder is separate, and only gets activated (automatically) in the case of catastrophic emergency... so it did not go off, so the plane did not crash.


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## jamisjockey (Jul 30, 2009)

I can't speak to the quality nor the capabilities if the air defense radar in Malaysia. I do know here in the US it is robust and covers more territory than the ATC radar. The FAA and US Mil work very closely. Possibly not the case in a country like Malaysia.



Jerry-rigged said:


> I am not a pilot, but as I understand it the pilot turns the transponders on and off as a "routine" part of flight. They also re-code the flight # on the transponder to make sure they have an original # for whatever air controller radar they are flying under. Also, as I understand it, there is a code for "hyjack" they can easily code into the transponder. The fact that the transponder was turned off instead of being switched to hyjack shows that (maybe) either there was little warning, or the pilot was in on it.
> 
> Also, as I understand it, the "black box" transponder is separate, and only gets activated (automatically) in the case of catastrophic emergency... so it did not go off, so the plane did not crash.


Not entirely accurate.
First, an airliner does not routinely turn its transponder off. A beacon code is assigned and squawked throughout the duration from gate to gate.
It's possible that internationally they are assigned new beacon codes after being handed off from one nation to the next. In my dealings in the past with Mexico that wasn't the case.
Hijack squawk:
Internationally, pilots don't receive the same level training they do here. And keep in mind that on 9/11 none of those aircraft switched their squawks. The pilot jumping on squawking 7500 would not necessarily be the first instinct they have especially if they are fighting for control of the airplane.
Next, the black box. If the plane is underwater, the ELT signal is going to be hard to find. And they don't always work. Lack of an ELT is not proof of no crash.

Lots of false information being floated out there. Some of it by so called experts on TV...


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## HoustonKid (Dec 29, 2005)

I'm going with it is sitting in North Korea. That is if it had the range to get there.


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## bluefin (Aug 16, 2005)

From what's been posted earlier it veered west towards Malacca Straits which if you keep going would be towards India - not North Korea. 
And being that Beijing was it's original destination it had plenty of fuel to reach some far off places. Problem would have been getting over India which I don't see happening and you never hear of anyone wanting to hijack a plane to get into India - maybe away from there but not to there.


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## jamisjockey (Jul 30, 2009)

HC said:


> I'm going with it is sitting in North Korea. That is if it had the range to get there.


About the same flying distance. But between Japanese, Chinese and South Korean air defense radars I don't see something like a 777 not getting noticed. Would have still likely needed to go overland China to get to North Korea. The Chinese would have noticed for sure.
Also, if they dove down to reduce the chances of being picked up on radar, then they would have burned more gas.

I'm starting to think they're just looking in the wrong place. Some sort of failed hijacking, and probably went down in heavy jungle in Vietnam or Malaysia.


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## TranTheMan (Aug 17, 2009)

jamisjockey said:


> I'm starting to think they're just looking in the wrong place. Some sort of failed hijacking, and probably went down in heavy jungle in Vietnam or Malaysia.


That stretch of ocean is relatively narrow so going for 20-30 minutes either way you would hit the swamps and jungles of Vietnam or Malaysia.


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## V-Bottom (Jun 16, 2007)

As I understand this...and its not about an airliner, but High End Cell Phones. Am I correct in saying some of these phones are waterproof? #2.& If someone calls a phone # , some phones made so the whereabouts of that phone is traceable to a location?? By aSignal, GPS tracked etc.


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## jamisjockey (Jul 30, 2009)

V-Bottom said:


> As I understand this...and its not about an airliner, but High End Cell Phones. Am I correct in saying some of these phones are waterproof? #2.& If someone calls a phone # , some phones made so the whereabouts of that phone is traceable to a location?? By aSignal, GPS tracked etc.


I think the phone still needs a signal from a tower for gps tracking.


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## jtburf (May 26, 2004)

Latest on Yahoo...

http://news.yahoo.com/malaysian-military-says-missing-jet-changed-course-154630031.html

KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia (AP) â€" The Malaysian military has radar data showing the missing Boeing 777 jetliner changed course and made it to the Malacca Strait, hundreds of kilometers (miles) from the last position recorded by civilian authorities, according to a senior military official.
The development injects more mystery into the investigation of the disappearance of Saturday's flight, and raises questions about why the aircraft was not transmitting signals detectable by civilian radar.
Local newspaper Berita Harian quoted Malaysian air force chief Gen. Rodzali Daud as saying radar at a military base had detected the airliner at 2:40 a.m. near Pulau Perak at the northern approach to the strait, a busy waterway that separates the western coast of Malaysia and Indonesia's Sumatra island.
"After that, the signal from the plane was lost," he was quoted as saying.
A high-ranking military official involved in the investigation confirmed the report and also said the plane was believed to be flying low. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the information.

Authorities had earlier said the plane, which took off from Kuala Lumpur on the western coast of Malaysia at 12:40 a.m. Saturday en route to Beijing, may have attempted to turn back, but they expressed surprise that it would do so without informing ground control.
The search for the plane was initially focused on waters between the eastern coast of Malaysia and Vietnam, the position where aviation authorities last tracked it. No trace of the plane, which was carrying 239 people, has been found by than 40 planes and ships from at least 10 nations searching the area.
Earlier Tuesday, Malaysia Airlines said in a statement that search and rescue teams had expanded their scope to the Malacca Strait. An earlier statement said the western coast of Malaysia was "now the focus," but the airline subsequently said that phrase was an oversight. It didn't elaborate. Civil aviation chief Azharuddin Abdul Rahman said the search remained "on both sides" of the country.
Also Tuesday, authorities said two people who boarded the flight using stolen passports were Iranians who had purchased tickets to Europe. Their use of stolen documents had raised speculation of a possible terrorist link.
Malaysian police chief Khalid Abu Bakar said investigators had determined one was a 19-year-old Iranian, Pouria Nourmohammadi Mehrdad, and that it seemed likely he was planning to migrate to Germany.
"We believe he is not likely to be a member of any terrorist group," Khalid said.
Interpol identified the second man as Seyed Mohammed Reza Delavar, a 29-year-old Iranian, and released an image of the two boarding a plane at the same time. Interpol Secretary General Ronald K. Noble said the two men traveled to Malaysia on their Iranian passports, then apparently switched to their stolen Austrian and Italian documents.
He said speculation of terrorism appeared to be dying down "as the belief becomes more certain that these two individuals were probably not terrorists." He appealed to the public for more information about them.
Noble said neither of the men had a criminal record.
Malaysia Airlines, meanwhile, said it is investigating an Australian television report that the co-pilot on the missing plane had invited two women into the cockpit during a flight two years ago.
Jonti Roos described the encounter on Australia's "A Current Affair." The airline said it wouldn't comment until its investigation is complete.
Roos said she and her friend were allowed to stay in the cockpit during the entire one-hour flight on Dec. 14, 2011, from Phuket, Thailand, to Kuala Lumpur. She said the arrangement did not seem unusual to the plane's crew.
"Throughout the entire flight, they were talking to us and they were actually smoking throughout the flight," Roos said.


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## poppadawg (Aug 10, 2007)

I say its the fat kid from North Korea. Or Dick Cheney.


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## On The Hook (Feb 24, 2009)

bluefin said:


> From the article MB linked:
> "although its transponder and other tracking systems were off."
> "The effect of turning off the transponder is to make the aircraft inert to secondary radar, so civil controllers cannot identify it. Secondary radar interrogates the transponder and gets information about the plane's identity, speed and height."
> 
> So help me understand - why would a civilian passenger plane turn off it's transponder and tracking systems? Why would the plane/pilot even have an option to turn it off?


The airliners use high quality communication equipment, but its not unheard of for a transponder to fail, or not be picked up by atc. This is more common in light aircraft, and big iron has redundant backups in case of an equipment failure.

The public's "understanding" of flight rules, air traffic control, and how things work in the sky is usually very far from reality. I'd say that the main purpose of air traffic control is to maintain separation between aircraft under their control. Not all aircraft are under their control depending on the type of flight, altitude they are flying at, or the airspace they are in. Atc will route an aircraft under their control to avoid aircraft not under their control. Many aircraft fly legally without ever talking to or communicating with air traffic control in any way. Much like driving your car, one can take off in many areas, fly across the country zig zagging between airspace classifications and land on the other side of the country without ever talking to air traffic control. You will not be landing at a major airport without a transponder or communication radio unless there is an emergency or special circumstances. Atc gives the pilot an overview of what he sees, and what he wants the pilot to do. Atc does not always see what the pilot sees and for that reason pilots can and do deviate from their assigned course from time to time.

There is no normal reason for a commercial airliner to turn off their transponder while one a revenue generating flight unless directed to do so by atc. There was either a failure, or it was turned off in this case from what I can gather. A failure could be a devise failure, or a total systems failure, obviously we don't know. Many countries do not have the atc infrastructure we have in America. As big as a 777 is, the ocean is bigger. Look how long it took and the equipment needed to find the titanic.


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## Cudkilla (Nov 5, 2004)

Just read a retraction from the news about 'misquoting' an official about the plane turning back so that news is just bad or wrong news.


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## beaucp (Apr 8, 2011)

jamisjockey said:


> About the same flying distance. But between Japanese, Chinese and South Korean air defense radars I don't see something like a 777 not getting noticed. Would have still likely needed to go overland China to get to North Korea. The Chinese would have noticed for sure.
> Also, if they dove down to reduce the chances of being picked up on radar, then they would have burned more gas.
> 
> I'm starting to think they're just looking in the wrong place. Some sort of failed hijacking, and *probably went down in heavy jungle in Vietnam or Malaysia.*


But wouldn't a jet of this size leave a pretty distinctive crater? Even in a dense jungle? I would think a satellite would pick up some type of abnormality in a jungle especially that of a 777.


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## jesco (Jun 23, 2013)

beaucp said:


> But wouldn't a jet of this size leave a pretty distinctive crater? Even in a dense jungle? I would think a satellite would pick up some type of abnormality in a jungle especially that of a 777.


Perhaps it went down over inland water, like a lake, river or swamp/marsh. Maybe that could help obscure impact or debris a bit.


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## Poon Chaser (Aug 22, 2006)

Hey let's face the facts. That thing was stolen. She gone. .. but I am sure it will show up sometime soon. Cell phone still ringing from passengers??? 

Come on man. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


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## ChuChu (Jan 23, 2010)

beaucp said:


> But wouldn't a jet of this size leave a pretty distinctive crater? Even in a dense jungle? I would think a satellite would pick up some type of abnormality in a jungle especially that of a 777.


The US is re positioning two HR satellites to scan for the plane.


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## BullyARed (Jun 19, 2010)

The Malaysia is hiding something. They didn't say anything about course change for three days and now the last contact was over Malaysia. WTH! Their story doesn't add up. Many A/C and ships have been chasing ghost in the south sea of Vietnam.


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## Kenner21 (Aug 25, 2005)

jesco said:


> Perhaps it went down over inland water, like a lake, river or swamp/marsh. Maybe that could help obscure impact or debris a bit.


When valuejet 542 went down in a Florida swamp it left a very small debris field due to the high speed of the impact and the swamp.


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## Texas T (May 21, 2004)

Kenner21 said:


> When valuejet 542 went down in a Florida swamp it left a very small debris field due to the high speed of the impact and the swamp.


Yeap.


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## Kenner21 (Aug 25, 2005)

Not that it matters but that was flight 592, still amazing they found the black box.


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## mrau (Mar 17, 2010)

Kenner21 said:


> When valuejet 542 went down in a Florida swamp it left a very small debris field due to the high speed of the impact and the swamp.


United 93 left a pretty small footprint in Shankesville, PA also.


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## waterwolf (Mar 6, 2005)

*The*

It's in the JUNGLE....LOTS OF CANOPY TO HIDE THE PLANE...MY THOUGHTS.?


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## Leo (May 21, 2004)

waterwolf said:


> It's in the JUNGLE....LOTS OF CANOPY TO HIDE THE PLANE...MY THOUGHTS.?


If that was the case I would expect a large fire.


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## scend irie (Oct 28, 2011)

In '91, my aunt and uncle's corporate jet crashed into a 4000' mountainside in Borneo Malaysia. If I recall, which is getting tougher these days, it took a couple of days to find the site by air due to the jungle canopy. Took more than a week to get to the site due to its remoteness.


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## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

Old growth jungle/rain forest vs. 777... Jungle wins. That plane would be shredded if at low altitude heading in if it was somewhat horizontal versus a more vertical descent.


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## Rotate (Mar 7, 2011)

Are you referencing the Conoco G1159 crash in Kota Kinabalu?

Amazing how long it took to find the wreckage in the jungle considering how small the search area was.

​


scend irie said:


> In '91, my aunt and uncle's corporate jet crashed into a 4000' mountainside in Borneo Malaysia. If I recall, which is getting tougher these days, it took a couple of days to find the site by air due to the jungle canopy. Took more than a week to get to the site due to its remoteness.


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## scend irie (Oct 28, 2011)

Rotate said:


> Are you referencing the Conoco G1159 crash in Kota Kinabalu?
> 
> Amazing how long it took to find the wreckage in the jungle considering how small the search area was.
> 
> ​


Correct. Uncle was Executive VP.
Corporate America learned a huge lesson from that one. The brass don't all fly together any more.


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## kweber (Sep 20, 2005)

well, lets say just for speculation... a huge bomb took out the plane at 35k ft.... this plane has 200ft wingspan... gonna be a lot of huge radar returns of left-over surfaces to reflect back while they fell almost 7mi.
IF there was radar coverage in the area....
if all that was tracking was a transponder... and was turned off...
probably not much....
either way, prayers to the folks on it and to their families, who doubtless, need them most.


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## Barbarian (Feb 12, 2009)

now they are saying an oilfield worker saw a burning plane fall out of the sky. lots of guessing going on


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## roundman (May 21, 2004)

*Satellite looking into missing Malaysia flight detects 'suspected crash area'*

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/12/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-plane/


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## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

Interesting, and right at the point they change course on the autopilot. The problem with those autopilots is they will fly the plane until it cannot be flown anymore and when it is disengaged, the pilots have a nearly impossible situation on their hands. If you want to see the Hollywood version, check out "Flight".


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## DCAVA (Aug 5, 2013)

Hopefully this lead will help find the plane/wreckage and bring some closure to the families affected.....


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## Cudkilla (Nov 5, 2004)

To make things worse, apparently the Malaysians offered to fly the families of the survivors to KL but the plane ended up landing in India. WTH?


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## waterwolf (Mar 6, 2005)

Haute Pursuit said:


> Old growth jungle/rain forest vs. 777... Jungle wins. That plane would be shredded if at low altitude heading in if it was somewhat horizontal versus a more vertical descent.


On the money...and the Thick jungle hides it all...


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## Ruthless53 (Jul 6, 2007)

The Rolls Royce engines are now being said to transmit telemetry during the flight, and this persisted for five hours total in this flight.

Excerpts from WSJ:

Aviation investigators and national security officials believe the plane flew for a total of five hours based on data automatically downloaded and sent to the ground from the ... 777's engines as part of a routine maintenance and monitoring program ....

... 
The engines' onboard monitoring system is provided by their manufacturer, Rolls-Royce PLC, and it periodically sends bursts of data about engine health, operations and aircraft movements to facilities on the ground. 



Rolls-Royce couldn't immediately be reached for comment.
As part of its maintenance agreements, Malaysia Airlines transmits its engine data live to Rolls-Royce for analysis. The system compiles data from inside the 777's two Trent 800 engines and transmits snapshots of performance, as well as the altitude and speed of the jet.


Those snippets are compiled and transmitted in 30-minute increments, said one person familiar with the system. According to Rolls-Royce's website, the data is processed automatically "so that subtle changes in condition from one flight to another can be detected."

Brings up a whole lot more questions to me! First thoughtbis a Payne Stewart scenario where loss of cabin pressure results in plane flying til theres no more fuel. My problem with that scenario is that they left with 7 hours fuel. If they had reached cruise altitude then they had already pulled back throttle to cruise speed which would maximize fuel use so they should have flown for 7 or close to it. The difference in 5 and 7 hours is way to big of a gap for me to understand. Plus that's nearly 3 hours flying from last contact.


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## Byrdmen (May 15, 2013)

Mont said:


> Interesting, and right at the point they change course on the autopilot. The problem with those autopilots is they will fly the plane until it cannot be flown anymore and when it is disengaged, the pilots have a nearly impossible situation on their hands. If you want to see the Hollywood version, check out "Flight".


With all due respect Mont, don't refer to "Flight" for anything connected to reality. Flying an airliner inverted deserves it's own thread.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## Jerry-rigged (May 21, 2004)

News this morning says the Chinese Sat photos are not the plane. Vietnamese navy says they have combed that area, no sign of a crash.


----------



## 47741 (Jan 5, 2010)

Methinks the governments know a lot more than they are telling..


----------



## Won Hunglo (Apr 24, 2007)

SaltyTX said:


> Methinks the governments know a lot more than they are telling..


I wonder if Eric Snowden was on board?


----------



## TrueblueTexican (Aug 29, 2005)

*If it went down it likely won't be found*

Like most modern jetliners, the Boeing 777 diverts highly compressed air from its engines to maintain pressure, provide clean air for passengers and power a variety of systems onboard.

These "bleed-air" systems take in a constant flow of air from the engines.

An outflow valve at the rear of the plane controls the pressure. Open it wide, and pressure drops. Close it down, and pressure rises.

An outflow valve stuck wide open was a possible cause of the depressurization of a Lear jet that killed golfer Payne Stewart in 1999.

When there is a pressurization problem the outflow valve is always on the list of the things you look at first.

If the flight engineer screws up in the cockpit and you don't have a real experienced crew in the seat - they have about thirty seconds to don masks on depressurization - common training is for a step dive from 30K altitudes on such loss.

Just as likely this plane is sitting under a camo tarp somewhere waiting for re-purpose as a flying HE carrier


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## chumy (Jul 13, 2012)

TrueblueTexican said:


> Like most modern jetliners, the Boeing 777 diverts highly compressed air from its engines to maintain pressure, provide clean air for passengers and power a variety of systems onboard.
> 
> These "bleed-air" systems take in a constant flow of air from the engines.
> 
> ...


Interesting. What is the O2 % of air at 30k ft? How do they get that compresed air to acceptable O2 levels?


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## Lagunaroy (Dec 30, 2013)

What we are NOT hearing. What else was flying in that area that night? They say the squawk stopped or did they just change it to another ID? 

Let's just say they secured the squawk, joined up with another aircraft and flew X miles on a heading of YYY. Form flying at night is done all the time by the military. If they flew 500 ft above and 1000 feet in trail of another aircraft with nav lights secured passengers on either aircraft would not know. 

Ground radars could not break out two (2) aircraft as far I as I know. I may be wrong on this! Fire control radars would not have that problem. 

This is strange, really strange, if there were USN ships in the area, they were focused on navigation and other contacts in the shipping lanes. If a carrier was anywhere close there would have been some sort of alert posture, 5/15/30/60 minute.

There is some tipper info we will never see, and I think the answer is with that.

Just an old salt's thoughts, off to watch for the black helicopters.

Prayers for the Souls On Board


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## 24Buds (Dec 5, 2008)

chumy said:


> Interesting. What is the O2 % of air at 30k ft? How do they get that compresed air to acceptable O2 levels?


As you increase the pressure it concentrates the o2 levels to an acceptable level. Usually equal to 8,000 foot altitude.


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## V-Bottom (Jun 16, 2007)

*'' How many theories have we heard so far?'' Well, I still think it was a high jacking gone bad *


----------



## mrau (Mar 17, 2010)

chumy said:


> Interesting. What is the O2 % of air at 30k ft? How do they get that compresed air to acceptable O2 levels?


It's actually about the same percentage-wise. The problem is the air pressure is much lower at that altitude so all the molecules, including oxygen are more spread out. Climbing in the atmosphere is the opposite of diving in the ocean. A diver has more water/weight/pressure on him as he descends and has more water above him pressing down. An airplane has less air/weight/pressure on it as it climbs higher since there is increasingly less atmosphere above it pressing down. Air is a fluid too.

So if you take a breath of air at say sea level and you breath in x number of oxygen molecules, taking that same breath (volume) at 30,000 feet would contain a lot fewer oxygen molecules because there isn't as much air weight above you pressing down.

Aircraft pressurization systems take the low pressure outside air and compress it so the air entering the cabin has a much higher pressure than it did outside the aircraft. At 30,000 feet the cabin pressure is around 6,000 feet, give or take, so it's breathable air. Running up and down the aisles would be like running around in the mountains, but if you're just sitting in your seat or walking the aisle you shouldn't notice.

Clear as mud? Too much info?


----------



## chumy (Jul 13, 2012)

mrau said:


> It's actually about the same percentage-wise. The problem is the air pressure is much lower at that altitude so all the molecules, including oxygen are more spread out. Climbing in the atmosphere is the opposite of diving in the ocean. A diver has more water/weight/pressure on him as he descends and has more water above him pressing down. An airplane has less air/weight/pressure on it as it climbs higher since there is increasingly less atmosphere above it pressing down. Air is a fluid too.
> 
> So if you take a breath of air at say sea level and you breath in x number of oxygen molecules, taking that same breath (volume) at 30,000 feet would contain a lot fewer oxygen molecules because there isn't as much air weight above you pressing down.
> 
> ...


Perfect, thanks.


----------



## bluefin (Aug 16, 2005)

TrueblueTexican said:


> If the flight engineer screws up in the cockpit and you don't have a real experienced crew in the seat - they have about thirty seconds to don masks on depressurization - common training is for a step dive from 30K altitudes on such loss.


Does the pilot have to hit a button for the masks to drop for the passengers or is there an 'oh **** sensor' that automatically drops them?


----------



## Bozo (Jun 16, 2004)

Maybe they are on that island from the TV show "Lost"?


----------



## Spooley (Feb 24, 2013)

It went down somehow.....somewhere. Be it an explosion in high flight or just an organized crash by those two Iranians with stolen passports.

Occum's Razor has the answer.


----------



## jamisjockey (Jul 30, 2009)

Spooley said:


> It went down somehow.....somewhere. Be it an explosion in high flight or just an organized crash by those two Iranians with stolen passports.
> 
> Occum's Razor has the answer.


The two Iranians were gay guys trying to escape Iran, headed to Germany as illegal immigrants. Not thinking they were the culprits.


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## mrau (Mar 17, 2010)

bluefin said:


> Does the pilot have to hit a button for the masks to drop for the passengers or is there an 'oh **** sensor' that automatically drops them?


Passenger masks will drop automatically if a sensor detects excessive cabin altitude. There is also a switch in the cockpit so the pilots can manually deploy the masks as a backup.

If the cabin loses pressure, even with your mask on, there's a good chance you'll probably go to sleep until emergency descent is over and level around 15,000 feet. You definitely wouldn't stay awake with a passenger mask if the plane stayed at say 30,000 feet. Cabin masks aren't pressure masks like in the cockpit.


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## Spooley (Feb 24, 2013)

Debris field in the Indian Ocean. That is where they need to be looking.


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## Game-Over (Jun 9, 2010)

mrau said:


> Passenger masks will drop automatically if a sensor detects excessive cabin altitude. There is also a switch in the cockpit so the pilots can manually deploy the masks as a backup.
> 
> If the cabin loses pressure, even with your mask on, there's a good chance you'll probably go to sleep until emergency descent is over and level around 15,000 feet. You definitely wouldn't stay awake with a passenger mask if the plane stayed at say 30,000 feet. Cabin masks aren't pressure masks like in the cockpit.


Do any of these birds have an "auto descent" feature that will automatically (and safely airspace-wise) take the plane down to a safe altitude if cabin pressure is too low for too long?


----------



## Shallow_Minded (Sep 21, 2004)

Not
To my knowledge


----------



## Rotate (Mar 7, 2011)

I'm not sure about Boeing products but the Gulfstream 450/5/550 all have a automatic emergency descent mode (EDM) that engages at a certain cabin altitude and is flown entirely by the autopilot. It flies an emergency descent profile until 15,000ft where it levels off.



Game-Over said:


> Do any of these birds have an "auto descent" feature that will automatically (and safely airspace-wise) take the plane down to a safe altitude if cabin pressure is too low for too long?


----------



## mrau (Mar 17, 2010)

Game-Over said:


> Do any of these birds have an "auto descent" feature that will automatically (and safely airspace-wise) take the plane down to a safe altitude if cabin pressure is too low for too long?


It sounds like from Rotates post some Gulfstreams do. The problem with that is if you're flying over mountainous terrain and the aircraft loses cabin pressure you don't necessarily want the airplane doing the emergency descent on its own ... you could end up flying into a really big rock (mountain). In a Boeing anyway, the emergency descent is done manually by the pilots. All major airlines have "escape route charts" that cover various mountainous regions. If you're flying in one of those regions and the cabin loses pressure the pilots aren't just going to dive straight ahead for 15,000 feet. They are going to be descending on a prescribed course that could include one or several turns so that as they descend the aircraft doesn't become a lawn dart in the side of a mountain.

This feature in the high end Gulfstreams must be based on a GPS database so the airplanes knows the terrain it's over? Not sure. The human verse technology argument is going to become more prevalent though. I'm still more comfortable with the humans having the situational awareness of what the terrain is below them and manually flying the plane down to a breathable altitude. But we humans do screw up. Of course an onboard computer that has GPS terrain inputs could have an electrical glitch or poor satellite coverage. It's a tough call, and as technology evolves will be more of an issue to work out.

We'll probably be traveling on pilot-less airplanes in our lifetime. Future hijackers will probably be hackers sitting in their parents' basement.


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## JPO (Oct 15, 2005)

David Blaine made it disappear and will reveal its location in a lame Tv special sometime next week...


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## ccbluewater (May 21, 2004)

Truly a bizarre situation. Been out of touch today but now reading US Military is pushing into Indian Ocean to search as they believe plane flew a lot longer
Than thought... And the Malaysian authorities are saying nope. What the heck happened here? Just read two different things (twitter links to Chinese blogs, lol not taking seriously) but they are throwing our maybe the co-pilot hijacked it.


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## smokinguntoo (Mar 28, 2012)

China says "seismic event" recorded at approximate right time to have been the plane. Wonder if they can triangulate that data.

SG2


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## HoustonKid (Dec 29, 2005)

Now there are reports that the plane was following wave points that would put it in the middle east. That sucker is on the ground somewhere and for some reason the bad guys are not claiming they have it. YET!


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## 47741 (Jan 5, 2010)

Steal plane.
Land plane.
Remove passengers, perhaps execute.
Fill plane with explosives or chemical agents
Refuel plane.
Fly to your destination.
Create mass hysteria and destruction.
Claim responsibility.


Crazy? No crazier than the world not "knowing" where a wide body airliner went. Something just doesn't sit right with the whole story. Maybe it's the media's rush to publish anything and be first. Maybe its the distrust of world gov'ts...dunno, but something is amiss. Could it be a crash- sure. But not too often we go a week without finding a wide body plane crash. If in the ocean- seismic and side scan sonar could find the plane...esp if we have ideas of where to look. The U2s and other surveillance planes/satellites must have something.


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## k-dog (Apr 24, 2011)

sad someone would do this! facebook scam!!!!https://www.yahoo.com/tech/facebook-scam-alert-think-twice-before-clicking-that-79576478984.html


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## StinkBait (May 31, 2004)

SaltyTX said:


> Steal plane.
> Land plane.
> Remove passengers, perhaps execute.
> Fill plane with explosives or chemical agents
> ...


A week ago I would have called you a tin foil hat wearing conspiracy theorist nut job. Today your scenario is believable. Of course you can always make the story match the facts. I truly believe it crashed somewhere but I am not ruling anything out.


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## jesco (Jun 23, 2013)

Piracy?


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## DeepBlueGulf (Jan 18, 2005)

I've been following this story with great interest, always hoping that somewhere, there might be some survivors. Hard to believe there could be any at this point though. Listening and thinking about all the theories, I've got to believe that this story would make an excellent book or movie, even if a little fictionalized. Tom - DeepBlueGulf


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## MarkDiaz (Jul 28, 2011)

*Retractor beam of mothership!!*

Plane flew into the retractor beam. Can't believe no one can see this is a possibilty. In this day of technically advanced systems, our systems are inferior and were shut down . The mothership came in unscathed and completly undetected. When the testing is complete we'll return the plane.


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## Leo (May 21, 2004)

Im hoping that many years from now they will be walking off of the flying saucer from the end of close Encounters of the 3rd kind.


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## Ruthless53 (Jul 6, 2007)

Well boys and girls new reports say nearly definite hijacking. I pray it's not true but I've said from about day 3 that none of this makes sense and it continues to not make any sense.

http://m.ktvu.com/news/news/world/investigators-conclude-malaysian-flight-hijacked/nfDQ6/


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## V-Bottom (Jun 16, 2007)

*hijacked..........cut and dry*


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## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

I think that pilot suicide is a possibility, too. There are a lot of mentally ill people in this world, and pilots are not immune. 

Either way, I think the plane is at the bottom of the Indian Ocean. There's not many places that you can land a 777 and go unnoticed.


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## HoustonKid (Dec 29, 2005)

According to the internet, depending on the set up and cargo on the plane, it can fly anywhere from 5,000 miles to 9,000 miles. That is a long way. My guess, the plane is in Iraq by now and we can only hope the passengers are hostages.


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## smokinguntoo (Mar 28, 2012)

*An aerospace engineers theory of the fate of MH370*

Another theory and worth the read.

He suspects sudden loss of cabin pressure due to metal fatigue (documented issue on this plane) and the phenomena known as *phugoid* mode where a plane ascends and descends automatically without pilot control until it runs out of fuel, similar to what happened to pro golfer Payne Stewart's aricraft after a loss of cabin pressure.

http://www.flight-mh370.us/

SG2


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## waterwolf (Mar 6, 2005)

*????.*

What if? This would be made into a movie for sure.....The plane was hijacked, landed and all passengers are being held hostage ....still alive , not dead....maybe it was already suggested in previous post....never say never...


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## Spooley (Feb 24, 2013)

*My suggestion.....*



waterwolf said:


> What if? This would be made into a movie for sure.....The plane was hijacked, landed and all passengers are being held hostage ....still alive , not dead....maybe it was already suggested in previous post....never say never...


......Would be that Harrison Ford play the on board Air Marshall that has dementia, Mathew Mc Conaghey and Woody Harrelson play the pilots and Steve Martin the Chief Steward. Film it on a remote, small island inhabited by ultra small pygmies over a period of three generations and show how the passengers mated with the small people to create a new super tall, behemoth new human sub-specie with no intelligence whatsoever.:dance:


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## BonesNTX (Aug 14, 2006)

Initial thought....Someone has stolen this plane
Per Airlinreporter.com
"The Boeing 777, registration 9M-MRO, was delivered new to Malaysia Airlines on May 31, 2002. The wingtip collided with the tail of a China Eastern Airlines A340 plane. The aircraft was powered by two Rolls-Royce Trent 892 engines. Almost 12 years old air craft had accumulated 20,243 hours and 3,023 cycles in service. Whatever happened, this is a truly sad day in aviation.. "

Per Kurt Seidensticker 
http://www.flight-mh370.us/
"What most likely happened to Flight MH370, was that fatigue cracking occurred on the Boeing 777-200 series aircraft"

Phugoid mode...Up and down attitude as plane is not under control. Large planes do this slowly. Not a roller coaster ride of drastic changes.
"The plane may have descended to 23,000 feet before it began the pitch up maneuver. At that point, the aircraft is pitched up and begins a climb. It will continue to climb until the atmosphere becomes thinner and thinner and less and less lift is produced over the wings. This would typically occur at 45,000 feet. This roller coaster ride would continue between those two altitudes until the aircraft no longer has fuel to power the engines."

Payne Stewart...Max ceiling of flight = 50K Feet

First off...Initial evidence contradicts Kurt's theory as the Malaysain plane made several turns off course. A plane with un-conscious Pilots doesn't make turns.
Planes do not fly un-attended and make turns. Planes are designed to maintain a constant attitude when contorl input is not initiated. In other words, if you are piloting a plane of much size and get up and walk away, it will level off and fly straight ahead. Kind of like our cars do. If you let go of the steering wheel your car will basically continue on straight. Yes, there are mechanical factors that can cause some deviation but basically it will go pretty straight ahead. A plane will do similar and a modern jetliner has a lot going on to maintain constant attitude. As opposed to a car, these planes have control surfaces constantly adjusting to "smooth the ride".

"phugoid mode"...Up and down attitude as plane is not under control. Large planes do this slowly. It is not a drastic manuever and the larger the plane, the slower the transitions occur. Certainly not going to cause any undo stress that could lead to failure. It is not like a roller coaster. More likely woulld not even be noticed by passengers as it will occur so slowly.
Bigger the plane, the more there is to have trouble with. These things are known to have their roofs blow off/apart...etc...
It would be more like riding on a bus at 70 MPH on a big open freeway with some hills.

Per Airlinreporter.com
"The Boeing 777, registration 9M-MRO, was delivered new to Malaysia Airlines on May 31, 2002. The wingtip collided with the tail of a China Eastern Airlines A340 plane. The aircraft was powered by two Rolls-Royce Trent 892 engines. Almost 12 years old air craft had accumulated 20,243 hours and 3,023 cycles in service. Whatever happened, this is a truly sad day in aviation.. "

Apparently a pretty old plane. Well older than I thought possible, I did not realize 777 had been out that long. 
I do not purport to be any kind of experienced pilot like an airliner Pilot is. I am a design Engineer. I have worked on various assemblies such as missile and aircraft systems, electronics primarily. I used to work for the Defense Contractor that invented GPS among other cool stuff we did.

My Dad was WWII Pilot of a PBY-5A Catalina. He flew the South Pacific for Air-Sea Rescue and Re-Con. Of course through my life we had some planes...My Dad had some planes. Last being a 1977 King Air. I used to fly Co-Pilot with him. First video we have of me flying I was about 9 yrs old. My Cousin, a woman now was in the back screaming..."Oh my God Chris is flying the plane". She went on to Marry my Cousin-In- Law, see below.

My Cousin-In-Law is recently retired Captain with Continental. His career is...USC Graduate...Viet Nam F4 Fighter and later in Nam he flew the refueling planes. After that he became commercial pilot and continued until recent retirement. Of course he has Family and houses and what have you. Point is, that is the kind of Pilots we used to get. The Captain of this Flight was of an extensive history as well. The guy was of retirement age Why would he scrap his whole life to do something irrational, he wouldn't. The Co-Pilot is where the attention is being focused now as he was of little experience and suspected Muslim. Well, most Muslims are peaceful of course so I do not see a lot to go into with him yet...Time will tell probably.

Unfortunate to say the least whatever has occurred. I have 6 flights across Atlantic in a 777. It is a very big plane with too many people in it for something to go wrong. Commercial flights scare the poop out of me for too many reasons. I would rather go on a ship, in the winter, on a northerly course across the Atlantic.

As I initially stated in this thread, this plane is a flying mainframe. We all know how wacky computers can get. They are great when all is going smooth and can be hell really quick when problems come.
What we have known from the onset and still today do not fit pattern of a crash.

Flight 370 was either stolen or crashed, I guess that is obvious.

I am not claiming to be an expert about anything, I still have a lot to learn.

"My initial thought was it has been stolen." I hope that the case.


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## weedeater (Aug 22, 2012)

Still strange to me that short of hijacking there was no distress call or attempt to contact anyone on the ground or air by this plane which I would think would happen if the plane just went nuts and the pilots couldn't maneuver it.


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## trodery (Sep 13, 2006)

Plane has been found in Vietnam... (This is a joke)

http://vietnam.craigslist.org/for/4372477162.html


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## BonesNTX (Aug 14, 2006)

Really not a time for jokes.

I have colleagues on that plane.

It could have been any one of us and may be some day.


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## Bocephus (May 30, 2008)

Very interesting info about the Pilot.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-trial-jailed-opposition-leader-********.html

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/missing-malaysian-airlines-flight-mh370-3248001


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## BonesNTX (Aug 14, 2006)

Ok, so his shirt says Democracy is over.

So what...Consider where he may be from. Maybe he is aware of the world state. Maybe he doesn't kid himself that he is so free as advertised.

Hmm...Kind of similar to many places around the world really.

Some countries are ruled by rogue figure heads that do whatever they want to despite established Laws and Constitutions.

I have seen no evidence that he needs to be suspect. Of course we are in that free society and have such accurate info all the time.

Whatever this relative rookie ( he was training on the 777 operations) was doing he was next to a 38yr veteran Captain. I don't know, maybe the Captain went to the Head...and....


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## bluefin (Aug 16, 2005)

BonesNTX said:


> Whatever this relative rookie ( he was training on the 777 operations) was doing he was next to a 38yr veteran Captain. I don't know, maybe the Captain went to the Head...and....


I'm reading that it's the captain in question - not the copilot.


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## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

trodery said:


> Plane has been found in Vietnam... (This is a joke)
> 
> http://vietnam.craigslist.org/for/4372477162.html





BonesNTX said:


> Really not a time for jokes.
> 
> I have colleagues on that plane.
> 
> It could have been any one of us and may be some day.


I agree. 239 people may have lost their lives on that plane.


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## 999 (Dec 2, 2004)

If it's not out of the question that the plane was stolen, and we are throwing out theory's...

If it was stolen and flew over another country's airspace, could it be possible that this country shot this plane down? Threats look differently than they did before 9/11. If that happened, the country may not be very forthcoming of the recovery or location. They may also be trying to figure out if it was hijacked or malfunctioned after the fact.


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## trodery (Sep 13, 2006)

mastercylinder said:


> I agree. 239 people may have lost their lives on that plane.


Ya'll don't shoot the messenger, I didn't write the Craigslist ad! I found the ad when searching for stories about the plane


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## AINT SKEERED (Jul 6, 2013)

V-Bottom said:


> Malaysia Airliner.......ch 360 FOX NEWS.....lost contact 2 hrs into flight over Vietnam early this afternoon......Kaula Lumpur to Beijing.........


langoliers


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## Fishin Tails (Mar 21, 2007)

Not sure if this has been posted yet. This is just a theory but makes a lot of sense to me.

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2014/03/mh370-electrical-fire/


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## Bubba Likes It (Apr 24, 2013)

Have they found plane yet?


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## Poon Chaser (Aug 22, 2006)

Found it!!!


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## Long Pole (Jun 5, 2008)

Who's Melissa?


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## dbarham (Aug 13, 2005)

Wgaf


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## Blk Jck 224 (Oct 16, 2009)

BonesNTX said:


> Really not a time for jokes.
> 
> I have colleagues on that plane.
> 
> It could have been any one of us and may be some day.





mastercylinder said:


> I agree. 239 people may have lost their lives on that plane.


Lighten up Francis. Some folks can find humor in anything. It is a coping mechanism. If I was dying from cancer, I would smile & say at least I don't have AIDS. You two are living proof that God has a sense of humor.


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## 47741 (Jan 5, 2010)

Long Pole said:


> Who's Melissa?


Melissa Debling....no shortage of google results..nsfw, for sure


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## Ken57 (Oct 23, 2013)

My money would put the plane in Pakistan. Any betters out there.


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## StinkBait (May 31, 2004)

Long Pole said:


> Who's Melissa?


xv6


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## Texas T (May 21, 2004)

*What is seen can't be unseen*



Long Pole said:


> Who's Melissa?


Too hairy for me.


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## Blk Jck 224 (Oct 16, 2009)

Texas T said:


> Too hairy for me.


I just threw up a little in my mouth


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## V-Bottom (Jun 16, 2007)

Will someone please make a container that these Black Boxes can fit in to and FLOAT....Something resistant to fire also....


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## mrau (Mar 17, 2010)

V-Bottom said:


> Will someone please make a container that these Black Boxes can fit in to and FLOAT....Something resistant to fire also....


You want the black box to stay with the airframe it is assigned to. You don't want it bobbing to the surface and floating off with the currents. And they are already fire resistant and will work under water.


----------



## bill (May 21, 2004)

Texas T said:


> Too hairy for me.


Ugh, why, OH WHY did you post that??????????????????????

My night was going pretty good..then bam!


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## Cudkilla (Nov 5, 2004)

Ughhh!!

Latest update:

*Summary*

Here's a summary of the latest grim updates from Malaysia:
â€¢ *Malaysia's prime minister has announced that new satellite data showed that flight MH370 crashed into the Indian Ocean. *In a brief statement Najib Razak said: "It is with deep sadness and regret that I must inform you that... flight MH370 ended in the southern Indian Ocean."
â€¢ *Malaysia Airlines announced that it was "beyond reasonable" doubt that the plane was lost with no survivors. *"We must now accept all evidence suggests the plane went down in the Southern Indian Ocean," it said in a statement.
â€¢ *The new certainty about the plane's fate was confirmed in analysis by British aerospace experts based on satellite data.* They found that the plane's last position was in a remote location in the middle of the Indian Ocean far from any landing strips. 
â€¢ *Families of the missing passengers were briefed about the new analysis minutes before the world's media. *Police and paramedics were on hand to help grieving relatives at a hotel in Beijing.

â€¢ *Australia's prime minister Tony Abbott has confirmed that the Australian ship HMAS Success is trying to recover two new objects spotted by a search plane.* In a statement to Parliament he cautioned that the objects may turn out to be unrelated to the missing Malaysian Airlines plane.


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## DCAVA (Aug 5, 2013)

Saw that on MSN; sad deal, prayers for the families involved/affected.


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## V-Bottom (Jun 16, 2007)

and NO pieces found as yet .........assumptions!!


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## Backwater1 (Apr 25, 2013)

V-Bottom said:


> and NO pieces found as yet .........assumptions!!


 Kind of what I was thinking. They have had all these answers then the next day, they change their mind. Been a daily occurrence since it disappeared. It's here. No wait, its here. Wait a second, its over there. Nevermind, here it is. Wait, its gotta be over there.

I don't think anyone has any clue where that plane is.


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## tbone2374 (Feb 27, 2010)

That is a really screwed up bunch, over there... so sorry for the families!


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## Ken57 (Oct 23, 2013)

V-Bottom said:


> and NO pieces found as yet .........assumptions!!


Smoke screen and mirrors.

I still bet it's in Pakistan or landed somewhere because you don't plan all that to crash in a sea several thousand miles off course. Like the General said more countries probably know more than they can say because they don't want to divulge all their capabilities.


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## BonesNTX (Aug 14, 2006)

Sad news for sure.

I think if the Brits knew about this it wouldn't have taken so long for them to say so.

All the way out there? Off course? Huh? Very experienced Captain at the Helm on that ride.

The sense of it all hasn't come out yet, I think.

But I am a hopeless dumb ***** and I want them all to be alive somewhere.

What I want and what I get are sometimes something else.


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## sotol buster (Oct 7, 2007)

Texas T said:


> Too hairy for me.


Shave those underarms.....That's gross.


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## mrau (Mar 17, 2010)

tbone2374 said:


> That is a really screwed up bunch, over there... so sorry for the families!


No kidding. The Malaysians have dicked this up from the get go. 239 souls on board means an exponential number of loved ones who need closure. They blew it right off the bat with their report of debris found and they are blowing it again. They need to keep their mouths shut until someone recovers actual debris from that aircraft.

Those family members have been led to start and stop the grieving process at least two times already.


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## BonesNTX (Aug 14, 2006)

So Chinese rubber raft crew with mic on broomstick magically arrive in middle of nowhere Ocean and report...We Have Ping....Pings. Tell the world and the LEAVE.

Everybody runs over with some half ***** equipment and gets some Pings. Time goes by...A Magic Company out of nowhere reports they have Magic pics from their Secret Sattellite with Secret software and the plane...Well a plane is in Bay of Bengal. All those guys over on the Chinese find say....No way...Nothing to that...WHO ARE YOU...We are over here with our equipment busy, can't you see that on TV.

Total smoke and mirror job by several governments...Management at work.

Dam Plane was stolen...Whatever they have planned will apparently be big, like heisting a giant dam plane isn't big enough already. They do not have to let us know what their plan is. It is developing and more to come soon. 

The governments involved do not have to tell CNN squat of what has happened or what is going on...HELLO....! CNN is governed by USA government...CENSORSHIP runs wild in USA...HELLOOO...!

There are several sequence of events that occur in big plane crashes that just did not happen. These events always...Always occur when a big plane goes down and nothing...NOTHING.

I am just still hopeful all are alive and have a bowl of rice a day or so at least.


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## Whodathunkit (Aug 25, 2010)

Are you using a name brand like Renolds Wrap or do you stick with a store brand for your tin foil?


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## BonesNTX (Aug 14, 2006)

I am on deck...where are you...Ah, I cannot see you anywhere.
Have some coffee...Smell some roses....Go wash your hands again.

Yippppppeeeeeeee Kai Yeah.

:brew2::bounce::work::ac550::ac550::work:!troll!!troll!:birthday2:birthday::thanksgiv


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## BonesNTX (Aug 14, 2006)

Party in Mexico...Anybody game?
I have boat...Not taking plane today.

:walkingsm:mpd::help::birthday2:birthday::birthday2:help:


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## Won Hunglo (Apr 24, 2007)

Plane is in North Korea. Kim Jong is getting his own Air Forse One and the passengers are making walmart Tupperware bowls in prison camps. Where else in the world can you go & your cell phone turns into an instant paper weight with no tracking capabilities?


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## Flat Trout (Aug 2, 2011)

V Bottom, you started this so what's the answer?


Brrrrr


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## BonesNTX (Aug 14, 2006)

The Answer...Somebody is aware of that.....Some are looking for IT.

200 Feet wingspan....Engines of Diameter a man can stand inside the Intake...Full Tank of Gas....Transponders turned off early in flight....Exceptional Captain....NOT A ONE EPERB one initiated = NO CRASH.

Chineese run over in raft and stick broomstick inwater and claim...PING...PING...HERE...HERE.

Chinese pack up and leave searching elsewhere.


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