# Had to cut the trip short!



## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

Left the camp south of Sanderson about 3:00 p.m. yesterday and got home about 2:00 a.m. this morning. Due to ingress/egress access issues on a route that we have been using for 27 years and a couple of cut chains, the sheriff showed up and said if I cut anymore chains getting in/out affective yesterday I was going to jail, so we packed up and he escorted us out because I would have had to cut a chain to get out and didn't feel like going to jail in Alpine. I got a lot of work to do to get this straightened out so if anybody knows a good property lawyer in Alpine, let me know. The hunting was very slow, saw only one shooter type buck at 335 yds but he got away before we could get a shot.


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## Rusty S (Apr 6, 2006)

Man that bites, sounds like the sheriff knows the situation, hopefully he will escort you in when you go up next. rs


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## M16 (May 28, 2008)

That doesn't sound like a criminal offense. Easement issues are civil so I don't see why he could have put you in jail. After 25 years it has become a prescriptive easement. The landowner would have to file suit against you to get a court order to keep you from using the easement. Sounds like you are going to have to file suit against the person looking you out. But I only practice law on the internet.


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## TxDuSlayer (Jun 24, 2006)

That sucks hope ya get it squared away before deer season ends. Good luck


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## Hooked Up (May 23, 2004)

Can you get a key? Might be cheaper than a lawyer.


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## nightgigger (Oct 13, 2008)

It was always my understanding that in Texas you had to let someone cross your land to get to their property. This was put into place to stop someone from forcing a property owner to sell by buying all of the land around them. It may be that you can just ask the landowner for an extra gate key or to leave it unlocked on on some days. The worst they can say is no!


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

Nah, this jackhole isn't going to give me a key or access unless I sue him. To make matters worse, I had trouble out of this same guy last year (cut the same chains!!! LOL) so I called the sheriff this year before going out, sent him a copy of my deed that says I have ingress/egress and the letter that I wrote the jackhole. Sheriff said "sometimes you do what you gotta do" meaning cut the chains, but the jackhole must be pretty flush and called his team of lawyers and got them right on the issue, cause we went in Sat, the sheriff came out Sun and told us that a report had been filed, they came out again Tue basically serving notice that criminal trespass would be filed and a warrant issued for my arrest if I cut anymore chain/lock/fences. The problem I think lies in the fact that this was an old 50 section ranch that was sold off in a couple of multi section pieces, then those pieces were broken down into individual section sales. I think the first division split the access, one from the East and one from the West. Our place is closer to the East end, but basically right in the middle, we have been entering from the East, but I think it was sold off out of the original West split?????????? Lots of questions to get answers to. REALLY sux cause I think the rut was just about to blow open and big boys go down during the rut out there.


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## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

if there is a recorded easement then your lawyer should be able to handle it... if it was an easement that was sort of a friendly agreed path at one time and new owner decides to shut it off, you're probably out of luck... anyways, lawyers will sort it all out and do what is correct.. good luck.


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## bobbyoshay (Nov 29, 2008)

I have a friend go through this with the road leading to their ranch/house. He had the jackarse lock them in and kept locking them out. They had to go to court and purchase a strip of land to use as their road. Hope this isnt the case with you. I believe that if the deed states you have the right for ingress/egress that the judge will make his judgment in your favor but will still cost you $$$ and time. He might make you get it surveyed to show where you can go in and out if locations are mentioned in deed. Goodluck and I'll try to get a hold of a name and # for a good land attorney out there.


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## M16 (May 28, 2008)

InfamousJ said:


> if it was an easement that was sort of a friendly agreed path at one time and new owner decides to shut it off, you're probably out of luck


That was not my experience. Check out prescriptive easement at this link. I got locked out on some new property that I bought. When I was in the process of filing suit they backed off.

http://recenter.tamu.edu/pdf/422.pdf


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## Troutman123 (Mar 21, 2007)

*We have an office in Alpine*

I spoke with them and explained your delima and they said Joe James in Fort Davis is the BEST


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## Pablo (May 21, 2004)

> It was always my understanding that in Texas you had to let someone cross your land to get to their property.


That is not true, you have to have some form of easement to get there.

Good luck with getting that sorted out, I would imagine your blood pressure is up there.


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## Blue Water Breaux (Feb 6, 2008)

You have to have an easement- now whether it's prescriptive or not, that's a whole other issue. If you have a true easement, you will more than likely have to sue him, as you stated, then ask the judge to order him to pay your legal fees bc this jackhole is, being, well, a jackhole. 

From a legal standpoint, if you have an easement, he is not allowed to lock you out, in fact, the easement is your property if you paid for it-thus, he is in the wrong. Sounds like the sheriff knows a lot more than you do, esp if the idiot out there lives in close proximity to the sheriff. I feel for you, that must be one hell of a stressful, frustrating as all get out situation and I pray that it works itself out quickly and cordially. Sadly, based on experience I've had dealing with these kinds of situation through oil/gas p/l work and personal experience at our ranch, it usually leaves bad blood once the situation is resolved.


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## Timemachine (Nov 25, 2008)

Stop cutting the chain and just shoot the lock off!!!


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## Troutman123 (Mar 21, 2007)

*had to leave office*

And not smart enough to continue our conversation in PM. On this bb But I will see what I can find out tomorrow
Matt


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## Johnboat (Jun 7, 2004)

*Reading between the lines..*

Are you saying your deed to your place also grants an access easement across land not conveyed to you ......but that access easement is over a different tract than the one you are actually crossing to get to your place?

First thing to do is get out your deed and read it....maybe go to the courthouse and research and make copies of deeds in the prior chain of title for the east west division you discussed...then locate the tract you are legally entitled to cross and see if that is what you are using. (even if you hire an attorney...he or she will need to see the title instruments to determine what your rights are)


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## Jock Ewing (Mar 26, 2006)

Under Texas law if you are surrounded and only have one way in, you have an easement as a matter of law. It is called an easement by necessity. If there is another way in that you can take without crossing another's land, no easement exists -- even if it takes an extra two hours -- and you must go the other way.


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## [email protected] (Jun 5, 2009)

Search the Progressive Farmer website with "Texas Easement" in the search. They have a lawyer which writes a monthly column on legal issues with ranches and farms. I know I read some legal advice on this in the last 2 years. This will give you some direction as to what needs to take place.

good luck - hope this helps


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

Our place is basically in the middle of an old 50 section ranch. There are three potential routes into the general area to our section. We have used one of those for the past 27 years, every year. This new guy bought two sections about 3 years ago, both of which happen to have the only roads from the "public road" that we have traveled. I am trying to contact the sheriff to understand his reasoning for deciding that we could no longer use that route. Obviously, I feel that we have been using the/a correct route into our place and don't think it is right that a guy can just arbitrarily decide that my route is no longer valid. I am going to start my research with the sheriff and move to the old deeds for the tracts of land to determine the accesses. Hopefully in a few months I can have a positive report.


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

Timemachine said:


> Stop cutting the chain and just shoot the lock off!!!


Dude, you have no idea!!! Is there such a thing a chain cutters anonymous, cause I need to go.....now!!!!! If I thought it would help I would shoot that jackhole, but again, I don't feel like going to jail in Alpine........or anywhere else for that matter. LOL.


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## SpeckReds (Sep 10, 2005)

Good luck. Can be a tough battle. I know someone that owns land that can only access it by water. The land owner that surrounds them on 3 sides(lake on 4th side) will not let them cross his property. This battle has been going on for years. 
It is only a couple of hundred yards across a pasture to their land from the main road, but they are not allowed to cross it.

We have a section 550 acres that we have several access roads to from the main road. Then we have 125 acres in the back offset from the rest. Luckily we own a small strip of land that connect the two. A few years back we were denied access through another land owners property to the back 125. So we took the dozer and made a road down that small strip of land or we would not be able to get to it. I like it better now.


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## hippyfisher (Mar 24, 2009)

Why are people such jackholes? Whats the big deal with someone driving across your land? I just dont get what is to be gained...


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## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

A number of years ago the Infamous one and I looked at a ranch near Jourdanton. It was a nice place, lots of red dirt and had water but smack dab in the middle of the ranch was a 5 or 10 acre tract that had a house on it and was owned by someone else and they lived there. They had deeded access and man what a deal breaker that was.

I sure hope you get this worked out but if it were me I'd do as was advised and gather all of the information about your property that you can get your hands on and go visit a lawyer in Alpine or the one mentioned who is in Fort Davis.

TH


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## Troutman123 (Mar 21, 2007)

*Hydra*

Looks like you received a lot of good advice here. The more I thought about it last night I got to thinking this could sure be some small town good ole boy politics. We see it a lot out there and they back down as soon as you get lawyer to start sending registered letters to County Judge on down...Just saying


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## Marshman (Jul 24, 2008)

That is a tough situation. Our place has two access routes, one, the previous owner got locked out of cuz he kept throwing beer bottles on the road and passing thru at midnite.

The present route is thru the property of the new landowner. I am like 45 minutes off the main road, 30 of which are past the owners place. I make sure not to come and go at odd hours and disrupt his hunting and you know what, we have become very good friends.

Trying to fight city hall in some of these small towns is tough. You can win, but it is rarely worth the time and effort, not to mention the money. That is likely why your neighbor is being a "difficult" individual. He bought it, didn't like the situation and decided to make YOU change instead. 

Best of luck, I hope you get your route back.


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

Thanks for the comments guys. I have slept on this whole deal now and have cooled off but have not lost any resolve to fix the problem. I can and will spend whatever it takes to fight this thing and hopefully be successful in securing a right of way through whatever route to get to the property.


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## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

hippyfisher said:


> Why are people such jackholes? Whats the big deal with someone driving across your land? I just dont get what is to be gained...


many reasons.. 1) do not want to be disturbed at odd hours or during hunting times, 2) passer throughs drop trash on purpose or by accident, either way it is dropped trash YOU have to clean up, 3) passer throughs can damage the road that YOU have to maintain, 4) want to high fence and manage the deer herd or raise cattle, passer throughs might leave a gate open for your investments to escape or they might run one over, 5) passer through sees that 200" B&C 14 pointer you have been hunting all season and knows you are not around right then, temptation, or 6) passer through stops at your place while you are at work and carries on an affair with your wife  LMAO....... tons of excuses, all legitimate... I would never buy a place with an easement through it.


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## Johnboat (Jun 7, 2004)

*written easement is the strongest*

There is some degree of truth in the above posts about prescriptive easements or easements of necessity. I am not an expert but I can tell you that those are "iffy" law school concepts that IMO are much inferior compared to an outright expressly written easement in your chain of title. It could be in a deed....the tract is conveyed and also conveyed is an access easement over the land not conveyed. Or, it could be a separate easement document.

So, heres hoping you have something in writing.


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## hippyfisher (Mar 24, 2009)

InfamousJ said:


> many reasons.. 1) do not want to be disturbed at odd hours or during hunting times, 2) passer throughs drop trash on purpose or by accident, either way it is dropped trash YOU have to clean up, 3) passer throughs can damage the road that YOU have to maintain, 4) want to high fence and manage the deer herd or raise cattle, passer throughs might leave a gate open for your investments to escape or they might run one over, 5) passer through sees that 200" B&C 14 pointer you have been hunting all season and knows you are not around right then, temptation, or 6) passer through stops at your place while you are at work and carries on an affair with your wife  LMAO....... tons of excuses, all legitimate... I would never buy a place with an easement through it.


Dang Hydraports! J sure gots a rap on you, you two the ones having a dispute? lol


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

hippyfisher said:


> Dang Hydraports! J sure gots a rap on you, you two the ones having a dispute? lol


Nah, he's just making a point as far as I can tell. I can't disagree with him on some of the reasons why one would not want an easement through their place, but if you own land in West Texas, almost without exception you are going to have an easement or someone traveling through your place.


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## Trout321 (Jul 7, 2011)

We purchased a place out west recently and it was an absolute mess trying to obtain the proper legal easement documentation to accompany it. Im curious to where your place is located at? In our situation the bank would not loan us the money until the proper documentation was presented. The bank along with our lawyer stated that legally we could not access this property without the easement. Back in the days these were gentlemen easements that were basically a handshake and permission granted. It is my understanding now a days these do not hold up and legally if you do not have an easement you are tresspassing. I agree with the law in this aspect as i would not want anyone crossing through our property to get to theres. If I purcahse a place without an easement then i dont expect someone behind me to have the power to all of the sudden decide they want an easement to their place through mine. Your situation is a little different as you have been using this road through the neighbors property for years but still if you dont have it documented as a easement then its not valid. Basically if its not on paper then its not legal. Im certain as with anything else money can resolve the situation whether paying the lawyer or landowner. I think you should simply talk to the landowner before your property first and go from there. Im curious to how this all will turn out let me know thanks


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## Trout321 (Jul 7, 2011)

If you do have a doucmented ingress/egress easement through the neighbors property then it shouldnt be a problem. The neighbor then has no right to keep you from your property. Im just surprised that if you showed the sheriff this deed with ingress/egress access that he did not stand behind you in using this easement.


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## Rubberback (Sep 9, 2008)

hippyfisher said:


> Why are people such jackholes? Whats the big deal with someone driving across your land? I just dont get what is to be gained...


You don't own land do you?


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## Rubberback (Sep 9, 2008)

InfamousJ said:


> many reasons.. 1) do not want to be disturbed at odd hours or during hunting times, 2) passer throughs drop trash on purpose or by accident, either way it is dropped trash YOU have to clean up, 3) passer throughs can damage the road that YOU have to maintain, 4) want to high fence and manage the deer herd or raise cattle, passer throughs might leave a gate open for your investments to escape or they might run one over, 5) passer through sees that 200" B&C 14 pointer you have been hunting all season and knows you are not around right then, temptation, or 6) passer through stops at your place while you are at work and carries on an affair with your wife  LMAO....... tons of excuses, all legitimate... I would never buy a place with an easement through it.


Right On! You immediately loose your privacy.


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## Jack's Pocket (Jul 16, 2014)

:an5:


M16 said:


> That doesn't sound like a criminal offense. Easement issues are civil so I don't see why he could have put you in jail. After 25 years it has become a prescriptive easement. The landowner would have to file suit against you to get a court order to keep you from using the easement. Sounds like you are going to have to file suit against the person looking you out. But I only practice law on the internet.


I will beg to differ 
Criminal trespass is go to jail.
Just because you were allowed to use a way and it has stopped
and there is no recorded easement your screwed.
There are tracts all over up here cheap. 
There was never a recorded easement to old family tracts. 
Roads in and out had been used by generations.
Timber bought the land around the tracts and stopped access.
I have also seen some old timers pull a written agreement from a 100 years
and they had to honor them.


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## basschump (Jun 8, 2005)

This post and discussion remained me of some info on a Sanderson real estate site. 


HISTORY OF LANDLOCKED LAND IN WEST TEXAS

Between 1870 and about 1910, the railroads were then what the "dotcom" companies are today. At that time railroads were thought to be the key to enhancing development and stimulating economic growth in the undeveloped areas of the West.

Railroads were not interested in building rail into areas where there were no people. They wanted to be paid to build new speculative rail lines. The State of Texas had little money but it had lots of land. So the State of Texas paid the railroads with land to build new track with the hope that development and growth would follow the rails.

The State of Texas divided up its land into sections (640 acres each) and paid the railroads every other section for rail line construction. Think of a checkerboard, black and red squares. Texas paid with the black squares and kept the red squares. The railroads immediately sold the black squares for cash to brokers, ranchers, and farmers. Then, the farmers and ranchers had every other section of land (the black squares) and the State of Texas still owned the red squares.

In the early part of the 1900's the State of Texas began to sell the remaining sections of land (the red squares). Mostly these were sold to the ranchers and farmers who had purchased the railroad sections, creating the opportunity for large ranches without the checker- board problem.

But odd sections here and there were sold to promoters who then divided these sections into quarters (160 acres each) and even smaller tracts for re-sale. Some of these smaller trats were sold as "investments" to buyers in cities around the country. The result was that here and there, sections or parts of sections, were legally sold, but the buyers did not have legal ground access unless such a tract happened to front a public road.

For some reason the State of Texas made no provision for access to these isolated sections of land. Unless a piece of one of these divided up sections had direct frontage on a public road, the only access was via permission of an adjoining rancher who did have legal public road access, or, later, via helicopter. In most cases, permission for access by the rancher owning the surrounding land, was not forthcoming. Even if "permission" is granted, it does not constitute a right of access. Permission can be withdrawn.

Over the years, many owners of ranches surrounding landlocked land have legally denied permission for access and have ranched, hunted and otherwise used the landlocked land owned by others as if it were their own. As landlocked owners, or their heirs, discovered the problem, many quit paying taxes and ranchers (or others) were able to purchase landlocked land at prices far below market. However, many such tracts still exist ranging from a few acres to over 1000 acres.


I'm not speculating this applies to your situatiion in any way. I hope it resolves peacefully and quickly.


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