# Wanting to get into reloading



## Chase4556 (Aug 26, 2008)

Looking to start reloading. Starting small, only doing 223 rounds to begin with. Looking to mainly work up new loads for my AR to hunt with. 

Thinking about getting the Lee Challenger single stage kit, the quick change one. Then all the odds and ends to get set up like calipers, a digital scale to use with the scale in the kit, ect ect. 

What are your thoughts on the best basic setup? Again, not looking to pump out 1000s of rounds. I will be doing 20rd loads of different bullets and powders till I find one my rifle likes, then load maybe a couple hundred of those. Down the road I will get into other rifle cartridges, and maybe pistol. That will be down the road though, looking to stick with and focus on one caliber to learn everything on to... keep it as simple as possible.

Also, what is the market like on used equipment? Better to buy new? It seems like the presses wouldn't really wear out, but the kit comes with all those little odds and ends. Any websites that people post their used equipment for sale on?


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## MrG (Apr 10, 2005)

I started a few months ago with a Lee turret press I bought used from a guy on another forum for $125. It came with 9mm and 45acp dies. The other stuff, scale, calipers, trickler, etc., I picked up locally or on Amazon and Ebay. I've turned out 3-4 thousand rounds on it and am very happy with the results

It didn't take me long to realize that what everyone says about shooting more if you reload was a true statement. I was spending way too much time just loading enough during the week for a weekend range trip. I'm about two weeks and a couple thousand rounds into a new Dillon xl650 and that thing can flat turn out some ammo. Some nights I have to tell myself, "I think that's plenty."

I still use the Lee to work up loads and load 38/357 and 22 Jet which I don't shoot as much as 9mm, 45, and 223.


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## mas360 (Nov 21, 2006)

That Lee kit is adequate for your intended use and the AR. If you get into high precision shooting you will have to upgrade to better press and scale to be able to build tight tolerance ammo. 

I started out with similar kit and used it for a year before upgrading. If you don't mind waiting and watching you can get used equipment for less....however, it takes some experiences to be able to buy used equipment still in good condition and without necessary repairs, which sometimes ends up costing more than buying new ones at start.


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## Old sailor (Mar 30, 2014)

You might want to upgrade to a better scale.RCBS 505 or a 10 10 scale are excellent scales. Some digital scales are finicky.


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## Chase4556 (Aug 26, 2008)

Old sailor said:


> You might want to upgrade to a better scale.RCBS 505 or a 10 10 scale are excellent scales. Some digital scales are finicky.


So a decent digital scale wouldn't be the ideal situation? I hate beam scales with a passion... every since chemistry in high school. hwell:

Guess I may stick with one though if you suggest it. May not be able to get a nice one right off the bat, but I will get a nice one. If anything I will do it to double check my digital scale if I ever question it.

Yall find that a decent powder measure gets you a pretty close weight throw? I'm planning on using it to get a close charge, then trickle it in to the perfect weight. I'm wanting these to be precise, not for match shooting, but if I'm trying to figure out the best round for my gun, I want to minimize variables.


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## Ernest (May 21, 2004)

Digital scales can be accurate. Just have to stay on top of them. My Chargemaster system has proven to be both accurate and a real time saver. 

A good powder measure can also throw very repeatable charges. Problem being, the higher end powder dispensers are very close in cost to a Chargemaster. 

Both systems need to be checked with a good beam scale. 

If I was to start over today, I'd buy a higher end single stage. I like my single stage, and will likely use it the rest of my life, but I'd step up to say a foster co-ax or equivalent for rifle rounds if I was starting from scratch. I'd also buy Redding "S" type dies when possible for all my semi-auto type rifles.


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## Chase4556 (Aug 26, 2008)

This is the kit I'm wanting to get, I will buy other odds and ends to replace some things, but to get started, I have heard this is a pretty good deal. Not the best by any means, but it will get me started and learning the basics.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/12...k-single-stage-press-kit?cm_vc=ProductFinding

I would love to at least have a turret press, but I can't swing the extra $100. Sure would speed things up.


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## Brian10 (Sep 6, 2007)

Looks like you're jumping head first in. Rifle rounds require much more effort than pistol rounds to reload. At a minimum though, I would recommend a turret press, the Lee Turret Classic. I've got a Hornady LnL progressive now though, which is ultimately the type of press you'll want to be running.


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## spurgersalty (Jun 29, 2010)

That's not a bad package for beginning, but, having owned a hand me down challenger myself, I'd upgrade asap to at least a classic cast single or rock chucker supreme single. 
The challenger is extremely flimsy and there is a lot of play in the linkage as well as flex in the frame. I only use mine now for punching primers.
My classic cast turret is nice as well, but, I've noticed a little too much movement of the turret upwards when sizing and seating. I only use it for pistol cartridges. I'm about to purchase a Dillon soon to replace it.


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## Chase4556 (Aug 26, 2008)

Brian10 said:


> Looks like you're jumping head first in. Rifle rounds require much more effort than pistol rounds to reload. At a minimum though, I would recommend a turret press, the Lee Turret Classic. I've got a Hornady LnL progressive now though, which is ultimately the type of press you'll want to be running.


I dont shoot much, and never have. I shoot often, but when I do, its maybe a hundred rounds. I shoot enough in the Army to keep the skills honed, range time is for punching paper, stress relief, and to stay comfy with the CHL weapon. With that said, I don't think a progressive will ever be needed for me. The sole reason I am getting this is mainly to load 223 rounds. I may down the road do larger calibers, but again we are talking maybe 200rds once I find the right load, which will then last me a year or so. I will be working up a nice hunting round for the AR, and after I load 200-300rds of a load I like... I really wont use this much.

I shoot the pistol less than I do my rifles, and if I do any pistol rounds it will be for my 380 and 45 with loads I have tested to shoot well in my CHL weapons. Again, a couple hundred rounds after I find a load that is reliable.

I'm sure everyone gets into it thinking like I am now, and thats why I'd like a turret setup. It would be enough to load plenty of ammo for me in short enough time.

Spurgersalty, the classic cast isn't to bad. If the time comes when I decide to upgrade though, I will just save my pennies and get a turret setup. Thanks for the heads up on the pros/cons of the challenger. I assumed being so cheap that it would have its draw backs. Once the wifey cools down from this purchase, I may start saving up for a turret setup if I think it would be cost effective.

Thanks for the input guys. I really do appreciate it. :brew:


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## spurgersalty (Jun 29, 2010)

How soon are you looking at buying?


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## mas360 (Nov 21, 2006)

I have had three single stage presses. One Lee, one RCBS and one Hornady. 
I also have a Lyman turret and a Hornady Pro 7 progressive. 

I would recommend the single stage and progressive, but not the turret unless you want to load ammo just to make a bang when you pull trigger. Turret press has too much play in the head to be able to maintain good tolerance. Nowadays, with Hornady Lock-n-L single stage you can change dies in seconds. That equals to the advantage of a turret press without compromising tolerance. 

Progressive provides both high production and good tolerance. Only downside is the high equipment cost.


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## Chase4556 (Aug 26, 2008)

spurgersalty said:


> How soon are you looking at buying?


Week, maybe two.



mas360 said:


> I have had three single stage presses. One Lee, one RCBS and one Hornady.
> I also have a Lyman turret and a Hornady Pro 7 progressive.
> 
> I would recommend the single stage and progressive, but not the turret unless you want to load ammo just to make a bang when you pull trigger. Turret press has too much play in the head to be able to maintain good tolerance. Nowadays, with Hornady Lock-n-L single stage you can change dies in seconds. That equals to the advantage of a turret press without compromising tolerance.
> ...


The lee I am planning to get is a quick change setup. I was told to get that over the standard press for the reasons you mentioned. Much quicker to change out the dies. I don't like that you say the turrets are not very accurate. When I load these rounds, I want to be as accurate as possible. Mainly due to the fact that I am new to it, and I realize that incorrect loading could equal a little grenade. Not good. Like Spurger mentioned, the challenger press may not be the best... but at least is quick change, right?


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## Chase4556 (Aug 26, 2008)

I should say I will be buying the kit, and a few odds and ends in a week or two. I wont be back stateside for a month or so, and I will buy all the other equipment I may need once I am home and start setting up my little work station.


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## spurgersalty (Jun 29, 2010)

Chase4556 said:


> Week, maybe two.
> 
> The lee I am planning to get is a quick change setup. I was told to get that over the standard press for the reasons you mentioned. Much quicker to change out the dies. I don't like that you say the turrets are not very accurate. When I load these rounds, I want to be as accurate as possible. Mainly due to the fact that I am new to it, and I realize that incorrect loading could equal a little grenade. Not good. Like Spurger mentioned, the challenger press may not be the best... but at least is quick change, right?


I'll also add, when I'm loading, speed is not my number one concern. Precision is number one.
In rifle, at extended ranges, that could lead to a lost, wounded, or nightmare track.
In pistol, .5 grain over in a 5 grain load is a 10% overcharge. Not exactly what I want to be behind pulling the trigger. That's not even factoring in a 5% variation of burn rate between different powder lots. That could mean a lost hand, digits, or eyesight depending upon the weapon
Quality, not quantity, Chase.


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## Old sailor (Mar 30, 2014)

Chase4556 said:


> This is the kit I'm wanting to get, I will buy other odds and ends to replace some things, but to get started, I have heard this is a pretty good deal. Not the best by any means, but it will get me started and learning the basics.
> 
> http://www.midwayusa.com/product/12...k-single-stage-press-kit?cm_vc=ProductFinding
> 
> I would love to at least have a turret press, but I can't swing the extra $100. Sure would speed things up.


Here is a good place to look for Lee reloaders $110 plus shipping.
I have a Lee Classic Cast Press and a classic turret press both are very good presses.

fsreloading.com/lee-precision-breechlock-challenger-kit-90030.html


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## Jack's Pocket (Jul 16, 2014)

Old sailor said:


> Here is a good place to look for Lee reloaders $110 plus shipping.
> I have a Lee Classic Cast Press and a classic turret press both are very good presses.
> 
> fsreloading.com/lee-precision-breechlock-challenger-kit-90030.html


I agree with the Sailor.
Keep it simple as this is a journey you are embarking on. 
Only thing I would add is to keep the powder simple as well
like H4895 or Benchmark you can bet you will be reloading
other calibers.


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## Chase4556 (Aug 26, 2008)

spurgersalty said:


> I'll also add, when I'm loading, speed is not my number one concern. Precision is number one.
> In rifle, at extended ranges, that could lead to a lost, wounded, or nightmare track.
> In pistol, .5 grain over in a 5 grain load is a 10% overcharge. Not exactly what I want to be behind pulling the trigger. That's not even factoring in a 5% variation of burn rate between different powder lots. That could mean a lost hand, digits, or eyesight depending upon the weapon
> Quality, not quantity, Chase.


Agreed 100%. I'm not looking to pump out as many rounds in an hour as possible. If that was the case, I wouldn't be getting a single stage press, thats for sure. haha. Quality is by far my main concern here. Like I said, between wanting the most accuracy I can get and the fact that a mistake could be deadly, I will be taking my time and making sure I do everything by the book and double check everything as I learn. A few extra minutes can save a lot of pain.

Old sailor, thanks for that link! They are cheaper than everywhere I have found, Amazon included.


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## Viking48 (Jan 24, 2006)

I bought a Lyman single stage press around 1970 and used it for years and thousands of loads. Changing dies was never a problem because once you set the depth and tighten the lock ring it only takes a few seconds to unscrew and change. I now have a Dillon Square Deal and a 550 but use them mostly for pistol and still use the single stage for rifle. My son "borrowed" my old press a year or so ago so I wound up buying a new Lyman single stage. When I bought the first Lyman I also got a Lyman powder measure and it has always thrown accurate loads. I'd check every 10th round or so but it never varied. I now have an electronic powder measure and I verify with another electric scale and it works well for loading rifle but would be a little slow for production loading. Good luck with your choice, be safe and enjoy. BTW, I had a Hornady LnL but found that once you put dies in the quick change bushings (which are kinda expensive) they would no longer fit in their boxes which was making a mess on my bench so I sold it and stuck with the Lyman.


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## Texas T (May 21, 2004)

Chase check PM's


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## Chase4556 (Aug 26, 2008)

Old sailor said:


> Here is a good place to look for Lee reloaders $110 plus shipping.
> I have a Lee Classic Cast Press and a classic turret press both are very good presses.
> 
> fsreloading.com/lee-precision-breechlock-challenger-kit-90030.html


Got on there today and built up my shopping cart. They are cheaper for sure, but then they hit you with shipping, YIKES! Everything was about $40 more expensive on Amazon, but everything also is Prime eligible, so I get free 2 day shipping. Looks like I will be buying off amazon this week probably.

Now to hunt down powder and primers when I get back to Georgia.


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## sixshootertexan (Nov 27, 2006)

Chase when you get back home you can go to 10Ring to get your supplies. They are just a few minutes from Randy's on Jones Rd.


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## Chase4556 (Aug 26, 2008)

sixshootertexan said:


> Chase when you get back home you can go to 10Ring to get your supplies. They are just a few minutes from Randy's on Jones Rd.


Ricky, long time no see. Hope all is well.

I won't be in Texas until Christmas time, but when I do, I plan on scouring the place looking for anything I may need. Savannah does not offer much in the way of reloading equipment. Is 10ring a username on here or a shop?


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## jm423 (Sep 18, 2011)

Buy the Lee set-up, you're good till you want something more accurate, more substantial,---. Buy an RCBS Rockchucker, you're set for life with a single-stage press. Later when you are more advanced (read more affluent) and want a turret or progressive, you will still want (need) a single stage, and there it sits.


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## pg542 (Oct 9, 2006)

jm423 said:


> Buy the Lee set-up, you're good till you want something more accurate, more substantial,---. Buy an RCBS Rockchucker, you're set for life with a single-stage press. Later when you are more advanced (read more affluent) and want a turret or progressive, you will still want (need) a single stage, and there it sits.


 Another vote for the Rockchucker. Also, there is NOTHING wrong with digital scales. The RCBS chargemaster is a proven combo that works great. Get a set of RCBS precision check weights to verify the calibration periodically and don't look back. It's a big expense upfront but worth every penny. http://www.midwayusa.com/Product/493216/rcbs-standard-scale-check-weights-605-grains Ask anyone who owns one. I don't use beam scales anymore.


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## Chase4556 (Aug 26, 2008)

I planned on getting a nice digital scale. I will check it against the scale that comes in the kit, and see if they are close to eachother. The Chargemaster is way out of my price range when it comes to my goal with reloading. I don't shoot enough to constitute getting something like that, and never will. 

I will see how the lee press in the kit works for me, and if I decide down the road I need something a little more sturdy, I have already decided the Rockchucker will be its replacement. Thanks for the tips and suggestions guys. Now to get everything ordered, and then figure out where to put it in the house... decisions decisions.


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## sixshootertexan (Nov 27, 2006)

Chase 10Ring is a reloading store on Jones rd. They carry Lee stuff.

https://www.10ring.com/


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## jm423 (Sep 18, 2011)

Don' need check weights--weigh and mark an assortment of nuts, washers and other junk through the load range you'll be loading. I f you can go from 5 grains to 250 grains you have 99% applications covered. The junk and a small calculator cost far less than check weights.


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## Chase4556 (Aug 26, 2008)

Well, I put in my order last night. Here is what I got:

-Lee Breech Lock Challenger kit
-Frankford case tumbler
-walnut media for tumbler
-2x breech lock bushings(for a total of 3)
-Frankford Reloading scale(comes with one check weight)
-Lyman 223 headspace guage
-little powder funnel

I still have to put in my Midway order, which will have:
-Lee Pacesetter 3 die set(223)
-Lee Case length guage(for the case trimmer)
-Primer Pocket tool(got my hands on tons of 5.56 brass over here, got 500 cases I'm trying to sneak back to the states, as well as a couple hundred 9mm)

I am thinking that should get me setup, other than powder, primers and bullets. I already have a set of calipers. I still need to figure out which reloading manual to get, but I will look around at some and go from there.


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## pg542 (Oct 9, 2006)

jm423 said:


> Don' need check weights--weigh and mark an assortment of nuts, washers and other junk through the load range you'll be loading. I f you can go from 5 grains to 250 grains you have 99% applications covered. The junk and a small calculator cost far less than check weights.


 For me though, I want to know exactly what my check weights weigh before I ever put them on my scale for the first time.. After all, that's the idea. To verify the accuracy of my scale( down to .5 gr.) If my scale isn't spot when it weighs a washer for example, how can I trust the weight displayed the next time I use said washer to verify. The degree of loading accuracy I demand from my scale must be verifiable and in light of the current costs in reloading, $35 is a pretty good deal. No calculator needed.


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## spurgersalty (Jun 29, 2010)

pg542 said:


> For me though, I want to know exactly what my check weights weigh before I ever put them on my scale for the first time.. After all, that's the idea. To verify the accuracy of my scale( down to .5 gr.) If my scale isn't spot when it weighs a washer for example, how can I trust the weight displayed the next time I use said washer to verify. The degree of loading accuracy I demand from my scale must be verifiable and in light of the current costs in reloading, $35 is a pretty good deal. No calculator needed.


Different strokes for different folks. If .5gr is good enough for you, then so be it. But, if that is .5gr over in a 5 grain pistol charge, you are 10% over if a max charge. I personally begin my load work with .5gr increments. If a scale is only accurate to .5gr, that's a full grain spread either way which could ca;use you to miss a good load.
We all have different ideas on technique and methods.


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## jm423 (Sep 18, 2011)

I apparently didn't make things quite clear in my post re weights: If I weigh a washer, nut , etc. on my 10-10 scale, mark and record the weight and keep these items in a "sacred" place, they are going to weigh the same next time I weigh them. They can then be used as check weights for the electronic scale. And I still use the 10-10 scale to keep a running check on charges thrown by the electronic gadget.


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## Chase4556 (Aug 26, 2008)

jm423 said:


> I apparently didn't make things quite clear in my post re weights: If I weigh a washer, nut , etc. on my 10-10 scale, mark and record the weight and keep these items in a "sacred" place, they are going to weigh the same next time I weigh them. They can then be used as check weights for the electronic scale. And I still use the 10-10 scale to keep a running check on charges thrown by the electronic gadget.


Makes sense. I assumed you meant check them against a scale you know is accurate prior to using them.


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## pg542 (Oct 9, 2006)

spurgersalty said:


> Different strokes for different folks. If .5gr is good enough for you, then so be it. But, if that is .5gr over in a 5 grain pistol charge, you are 10% over if a max charge. I personally begin my load work with .5gr increments. If a scale is only accurate to .5gr, that's a full grain spread either way which could ca;use you to miss a good load.
> We all have different ideas on technique and methods.


 Actually .5 grain isn't good enough for me, that just happens to be the smallest check weight in the set, but by using different combinations of the weights and seeing an expected correct display, gives me confidence that I'm good down to .1 gr.... I know all of this is personal preference, Like you said "strokes for folks" but I've never seen a beam scale that I had the confidence in that I do my Chargemaster . I started pulling a press handle long before the electronic scales came out and admittedly, I was slow to convert from the 5-0-5 or 10-10 type beam scales. The first generation digitalscales left a lot to be desired but IMO the modern electronic scales are miles ahead of any mechanical beam scales. I like to use my checkweights periodically to prove that fact, if to no one else but myself. It gives me confidence. Confidence when I poke my barrel out the blind window and especially when I settle in behind the recoil pad at the bench.


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## larrymac1 (Dec 8, 2011)

*Reloading*

I've been using my single stage Rockchucker for about 6 years now and have loaded literally thousands of rounds with it. I just purchased the Lyman Gen 6 powder scales and love it as well. The RCBS kit has just about everything you would need to get started.


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## Chase4556 (Aug 26, 2008)

Everything is being delivered to my buddys place today.


Gotta get this 5.56 and 9mm brass back home, and I'm going to try and get my hands on some 7.62x51 as well to bring back.


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## Chase4556 (Aug 26, 2008)

I couldn't resist... went and grabbed a 5.56ammo can worth of brass. Mixture of 5.56, 9mm and 7.62x51.


Hehe. Now if I can just get them back stateside I will be set for life.


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## Chase4556 (Aug 26, 2008)

For those of you that reload 223, what powder/bullet combos have you had the best luck with? Just trying to get a general concensus of 2 or 3 powders to start out with. Will be loading 65gr Gamekings, and maybe just regular 55gr soft points to start with and get a base line for both.


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## spurgersalty (Jun 29, 2010)

I think varget and RL15 will both do well in each bullet size you mentioned Chase.
I'm using Varget, H4895, and H335 to push 60gr. partitions and 62gr. ttsxs'. These are all under an inch at 75 yards(my current hunting and shooting restrictions I've in place for him) with an 8yo shouldering the work. 
So, if you trust an 8yo.....


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## Chase4556 (Aug 26, 2008)

spurgersalty said:


> I think varget and RL15 will both do well in each bullet size you mentioned Chase.
> I'm using Varget, H4895, and H335 to push 60gr. partitions and 62gr. ttsxs'. These are all under an inch at 75 yards(my current hunting and shooting restrictions I've in place for him) with an 8yo shouldering the work.
> So, if you trust an 8yo.....


Varget is #1 on my list to get. Seems like just about everyone uses it.


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## MrG (Apr 10, 2005)

My best load with the Sierra 65gr spbt #1395 has been with RX15. Varget is a close second by a few tenths. H335 grouped less than an inch also.
The bad thing is that is also the order of availability around here. I don't run across RX15 very often.

18" barrel. 1:7 twist. Wylde chamber.


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## Chase4556 (Aug 26, 2008)

Yeah, I've got my buddies keeping an eye out in the houston area, and when I get back I will be watching the local shops in Savannah. We only have 2 or 3 places that sell powder though, so its tough. 

Might have to start ordering online.


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## Ernest (May 21, 2004)

My best load with 55's - N135. With 60's - H335. With 69's - Varget. 

For 55's, if you are shooting cheap FMJ's, they are not particularly accurate to begin with. Likely do as well, if not better, with Remington Cor-Loks, and the Cor-Loc's are a decent hunting bullet. Plus, Cor-Loc's are cheap when purchased in bulk. 

For stuff in that weight range, there are a ton of powders that work - 748, N-135, N-133, BLC2, 2460, 2230, 2520, H-335 - plus the usual suspects like Varget.


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## Chase4556 (Aug 26, 2008)

Yeah, I may start doing 55gr loads, but for the most part it will be 60gr+ hunting loads. I have the 65gr sierra gamekings sitting at the house. Those will be first.

If I do 55gr loads, it will mainly to just practice with all the equipment. 

On a good note, my buddy is getting me a chronograph as a late wedding gift.  should help with building up loads.


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## Chase4556 (Aug 26, 2008)

Basspro has Alliant Reloader 15 in stock. Got online and shipped 2lbs worth to the Basspro in Savannah. My buddy is going to pick it up for me. Whoo... got powder. Now for primers and I will have everything I need.


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## Chase4556 (Aug 26, 2008)

Well, back in the states. Got everything I need to start loading rounds. I have Reloader 15, BLc-2 and will have varget after I trade a guy for it. 

Just gotta get my reloading bench built, then I will be good to go.


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