# Long distance casting



## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

I hope the old saying about "you can't teach an old dog new tricks" doesn't apply here...but its obvious I need to learn the pendulum cast (or whatever you wish to call it) that enables one to place a lure/bait reasonably accurately in the striper strike zone in the tailrace at Livingston.

Not after breaking any records, or even turning any heads, just want to be able to get it up there. 

There's a good bit of info on the internet and I've watched SS do it very successfully now a couple of times. When I first tried it recently, I realized I've got a long way to go and a short time to get there.

Any tips, thoughts for this old dog on long distance casting appreciated. Thanks in advance.


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## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

I got into that for awhile, and it can be work! Yes, there is a lot of info on the net. The right rod seems to make a HUGE difference, and of course must be matched for the weight you are casting. I did discover that a rod made to cast 1 ounce is much less work than one made to cast those 5 or 6 ounce "lake livingston floats". The Ambassadeurs seems to outcast the more expensive Shimanos. The true pendelum is almost dangerous, but there are modified forms that seem to work well. It is really a physics lesson on some of the casts. The amount of drop or how far your lure is from the rod tip can make a lot of difference. It helped me to practice and try different techniques on dry land on a mowed field. I don't claim to be a long distance caster by any means, but really I am just admitting it is interesting.


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

WBF,

I'm having a lot of trouble purchasing a "distance" rod online. I found a nice Lamiglass but its not available with any suppliers. What kind of rod do you recommend?

Also, from reading/research, I've found that just as you say the Ambassadeurs outcast about everything...which is good because they are my preferred reel.

There is some thought that the Abu 6500 rocket CS may be the best out of the box distance casting reel. 

As soon as I can get rigged, I plan to do dry land simulations just as you mentioned, but dang I can't seem to get rigged out. Not much interest in that set-up in this area, understandably. 

Thanks for your comments.


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## Mattsfishin (Aug 23, 2009)

Have you tried Cut Rate on the Gulf Freeway ? They may be cost a little more than some of the other places but they did have a good selection of big rods.

Matt


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

I recently went to their online store and was surprised to not find any...but may have to just drive down there and check inside the store. Thanks.


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## bigfost (Oct 11, 2004)

If you'll allow an old saltwater hand to weigh in here, I'll give you my opinion. The first basic problem is that there is a world of difference in the equipment for true long casting and that for fishing. As stated, a large part of the equasion is the rod. Most distance casters use heavy action rods from 13 to 15 feet. The rods that are best suited to distance casting are not very well suited to catching fish. That is unless you are one of those who honestly enjoys catching fish on a broomstick. Go to the Breakaway USA web site if you want to see some examples of true distance casting rods. They also have a distance casting forum where you might find answers to more of your questions.

A well tuned reel is the next part of the equasion. I believe most distance casters use ABUs, but I could be corrected about that. Again, most of these are not your off the shelf fishing reels. Very few, if any, have level winds, and many are magged. The casters use shock leaders followed by light running line.

The technique is the last part of the equasion. There are a few variations of the basic pendulum, but the pendulum remains the gold standard. I'm not sure it's possible to make a true pendulum cast from a boat, or any other space restricted area, but it would be hazardous to anyone else in the boat if you could.

So, is there any hope for you? Take a lead from Loy. Get him to teach you his technique and pay attention to his tackle and rigging. I taught the boy how to surf fish (LOL), but if I wanted to learn how to fish, and cast, below the dam, he's the guy I'd go to.

Good luck.


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## txmeatsoaker (Nov 3, 2004)

Eliminator rod (15') or Ugly Stick (Heavy), Shimano 200G reel (80$ @ Academy) 20lb Trilene and some 50lb leader line. Cut your leader abt 3 or 4 feet from end of rod and tight on your cork from 3278 marina (7$) be sure to get 5 or 6 oz when using this setup. If your throwing from a flat bottom put your hook in the top of cork so not to drag the water when casting. Casting must be one smooth motion any whipping or dragging your cork on water will result in backlash and high dollar breakoffs. Good Luck!!


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## shadslinger (Aug 21, 2005)

txmeatsoaker got it right, when I guided below the dam the Eliminator 10' and 15' were the best along the 200g Shimano, however the casting corks invented to use there are now a whopping $9.00. 
I still have the 10' and 1 working 200g left, that is what I was using the other day when I fished with you. I also used a Lew's Speed Spool on 10" americanrodsmith, which is a broomstick of a rod. It will however cast into the wind better than the Eliminator and the Lew's will crank it back when the water is current is really moving to fast for most other reels. 
You have to, in most cases, move the bait moving faster than the current to draw a strike from stripers, the other day this was not true, they wanted it moving the same speed as the current. I think because the discharge was dropping all day and they did not want to come to the top for bait, so letting that Pet Spoon dangle beneath the cork and drift back was the trick. That is unusual however, and it took me a whole day to figure it out.
I use modified pendulum cast because you have to modify it to cast from a boat, the guides who have the tall platform boats/rafts are standing 10 to 12' above the water and can dangle a leader up to 12' behind the cork. they use rods up to 17' but mostly now they use 15'.
Placing the hook on the cork is a good trick, but the real trick to long casting is learning to _load the rod on the back swing_, bring it over and let the stored power in it rocket the bait on release.
Most of the trick to long casting is about being smooth, and having good form. There is a fraction of a second where you add a little juice to the cast and it helps with distance and accuracy. 
That would be the same instant that is just before you would release the button on a spincast, let go with your finger with a spinning reel or take your thumb partly off with a baitcaster. 
Like shooting a basketball, I know in that instant if it will be a good cast, or in basketball, go through the hoop.

My cast starts when I swing the rod down from high on my left side to behind me and the boat on my right side and then I bend the rod with a forward and down move that loads the rod. The rod will bend from the very butt to the tip if done right, with practice you can feel the rod load up.
You are then at the moment of truth, the energy stored in the rod at that instant is amazing and with a 2oz or bigger cork it can knock someone unconscious or stone cold dead.
A backlash results in a report as loud as .22 rifle and the line can slice you up, or burn 3 layers of skin off of your thumb if you try to break the runaway spool with it.
Sounds pretty dangerous don't it? That's why I say "going out" when I cast. It's signal to lay low and not have anything sticking up in the air, like another rod, landing net, anything.
SS


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

bigfost said:


> So, is there any hope for you? Take a lead from Loy. Get him to teach you his technique and pay attention to his tackle and rigging. I taught the boy how to surf fish (LOL), but if I wanted to learn how to fish, and cast, below the dam, he's the guy I'd go to.
> 
> Good luck.


Thanks Bigfost...I've already had a couple of hands-on lessons from Loy using his equipment. I think he probably was too nice to tell me how bad I really was. He can really cast his set-up and put it in the right spots. A joy to watch.

My first attempts, however, left a lot to be desired....but maybe with some dry land practice and more coaching from Loy, I can get to be adequate....not looking to be good, just adequate enough to get the job done.

Got to find the right rod for me first and that has been harder than I would have thought. Breakaway may be a good choice. The heavy rods like the Ugly stick are probably good for casting but don't appeal to me for fishing....and fishing is the priority with casting being only a means to an end. Thanks.


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## shadslinger (Aug 21, 2005)

BTW. Bigfost really did teach me to surf fish. It was something I had been trying do successfully for years and never got it until he agreed to fish with me a couple of times. He is an expert at catching big surf fish, especially bull reds and an excellent caster.
The fishing board where I meet him included some of the worlds best long distance casters, like Big Lou, who at one time held the world record. I got see him at the beach cast once and he, like all pros, makes it look easy. It is beautiful to watch. 
I had to modify my casting style after a couple of back surgeries too, the real pendulum cast takes a lot of strength and involves the whole body including the "dance steps" that set it up.
I forgot to mention that follow through, just like any athletic swing, baseball, golf, shooting baskets, is very important.


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## dbullard (Feb 13, 2008)

cool topic guys.I have seen Loy cast from the surf and he can sling it.Bigfost he told me you were his surf fishing mentor.Hopefully he will teach me some more of what you taught him.
ML keep at it you will get it I am sure.I saw a 12' ugly stick at Academy that looked pretty good.


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## RAYSOR (Apr 26, 2007)

Great info, I was glued to the info, I am thinking when I go out with SS, get me a good set up and see if I can pay him per cast. LOL, just kidding, when I have gone out with Loy it seems he can throw about as far as he can see, amazing.


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## bigfost (Oct 11, 2004)

shadslinger said:


> BTW. Bigfost really did teach me to surf fish. It was something I had been trying do successfully for years and never got it until he agreed to fish with me a couple of times. He is an expert at catching big surf fish, especially bull reds and an excellent caster.
> The fishing board where I meet him included some of the worlds best long distance casters, like Big Lou, who at one time held the world record. I got see him at the beach cast once and he, like all pros, makes it look easy. It is beautiful to watch.


I think Loy knew more about surf fishing than he lets on. Either that, or he was the world's quickest study. In case he hasn't told the story, the first time we surf fished together, he and his ex got to the beach around midafternoon. I had been there all day, and it was one of those days you write home about. As they drove up, I was fighting my 14 bull red, and that in addition to one bull black drum and a 6' bull shark I had started the day with. I told Loy that I was just about beat, but that I'd cast out another couple of baits if they would catch the fish. Sure enough, within the next 30 minutes both Loy and Karen were fighting bull reds on my gear. I hung around for a while longer to make sure he had everything under control and then left. I think they caught 9 more fish after I left. We've fished together a number of times since then, and he's as much fun to surf fish with as he is to fish the lake with.

Getting back to long casting, Big Lou McEachern is a wonder to watch in action. With ordinary fishing tackle, he can make a 100 to 150 yard cast look effortless. One day this spring, I was carrying my surf baits out in my kayak about 200 yards off the beach. Lou was wading out about knee deep and could almost hit the same distance with his casts. Unfortunately for Lou, those extra few yards made all the difference that day. I caught a bunch of bull reds, and I don't think he caught a one.

BTW, don't ever ask Loy to fight one of those bull reds that eat one of those kayaked baits. He'll complain about it for weeks. :spineyes:

Sorry about the highjack Meadowlark - carry on.


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## shadslinger (Aug 21, 2005)

Yeah, Bigfost yakked a bait about 1,000 yards and when the fish hit handed me the rod! Every time I tell this story the distance increases about another 300 yards, lol.


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## bueyescowboy (Apr 10, 2005)

you need to put that on you tube....if I ever go out with you ...we are going to take some video's. I would like to see the long distance throw in action ...then a nice striper take off with the cork.
and I am currently upgrading my fishing tackle. Most would laugh at what I use....but thats ok....most of my rods have caught a bunch of fish.
i finally broke out one of dad's old ABU but sister grab it.....back to my zebco 202


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## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

I have seen the the huge rods and the 5 or 6 ounce floats and I have tried it with some success, but to be honest that is a lot of work. I like my Ambassadeur 6500 CS Rocket made in Sweden not Mexico or elsewhere. The rod is a 9' Lamiglas G-1326-T. On the label it shows 12-25 pound line and 1/2 to 1 & 3/4 ounce lures. With this the rod does more work and does not wear me out so quickly.

I really suggest checking into the G-1000 Series of Lamiglas Salmon & Steelhead rods. I discovered them due to seeing a man make incredible long cast without killing himself and using about 1 & 1/2 ounces instead of 5 or 6 below the dam one day a few years back.

http://www.lamiglas.com/prod_indiv.php?groupid=14

By the way, I found one in excellent shape on eBay for a fraction of the new cost.


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

Thanks for that info. If it can get the distance, that would be a good way to go....pricy, however. 

Would you say with that rod you (and maybe even mehwell: ) could reach the "zone" from the cable line?


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## shadslinger (Aug 21, 2005)

Meadowlark, those guys fishing next to us were using tackle much like what WBF is talking about. They get great distance with those rigs and they can handle big fish pretty well.
I use rods/reels that are made to handle a certain amount of abuse and can muscle those big stripers away from other anchor lines and keep them at least on the same side of the river as you cast from. That is part of being a guide, you have to find methods and tackle that other people can catch fish with, when if you were the only one fishing you could use a much more delicate rig that is more fun to play the fish with.
Below the Livingston dam is rough on everything, tackle, boats, anchors, people, etc...the rigs that i use i used 20 years ago to guide with and they still hold up.
So compromise is an important factor when fishing there.
The cast, once you get it down, is really easy on the body, it is the reeling back that wears you out, that is why at one point I said "can you reel it back if I cast?" The spine problems I have makes it very tough to contiuliy reel back almost a 100 yards of line and weight. I could cast all day and not have a problem because I do it unconsciously with smooth form. 

In fact if I let anything enter my mind while casting(something behind me, some obstacle a head of me) I will mess it up, just like shooting a basketball through a hoop, you let the cerebellum take over, it does a good job if you leave it alone and don't consciously think about it. :spineyes:


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## shadslinger (Aug 21, 2005)

See what a day of bad weather and high discharge will do to us, yada yada yada yada yada yada,etc... I was even worse after surgery and the doctor would not let me fish for months!


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## bigfost (Oct 11, 2004)

shadslinger said:


> The cast, once you get it down, is really easy on the body, it is the reeling back that wears you out, that is why at one point I said "can you reel it back if I cast?" The spine problems I have makes it very tough to contiuliy reel back almost a 100 yards of line and weight. I could cast all day and not have a problem because I do it unconsciously with smooth form.


Hey Loy, I'll make you a deal, the next time we surf fish, you cast everything out and I'll reel all the fish back in. :an6:


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## shadslinger (Aug 21, 2005)

LOL. Bigfost, I should have said reeling back a fishless line!


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## Sunbeam (Feb 24, 2009)

bigfost said:


> Hey Loy, I'll make you a deal, the next time we surf fish, you cast everything out and I'll reel all the fish back in. :an6:


 LOL I could see that one coming a mile away.


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## tngbmt (May 30, 2004)

ss, how far is it between the cable and the 'zone'? 

thanks 
tony


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## shadslinger (Aug 21, 2005)

Tony it is about175 yards now, it used to be 200+ but they did some bulkheading and construction that brought it back some. Some guides who fished there when i did stretched a rope and measured it before the construction was done and it was 207 yards at one end and 220 at the other back then. They used to make that distance with 17' rods casting from an elevated platform. amazing to watch.


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