# We May Not Get 11 days....



## trapper67 (Mar 23, 2011)

Here is the first article I found that states we may not get our 11 days. I applaud LA. I hope FL goes for it too....IMHO

Recreational red-snapper anglers were stunned last week to learn that the 2014 season had to be cut from 40 to 11 days in length to conform with a federal judge's order to hold the recreational sector accountable for past quota overages.
An 11-day season was a tough pill to swallow, but now it appears recreational anglers will be lucky to get that.
Roy Crabtree, regional administrator for the National Marine Fisheries Service's Southeast Region, announced in a conference call Friday that the season may be reduced even further because of the actions of non-compliant states, including Louisiana.
Almost immediately after the season was cut to 11 days by the Gulf of Mexico Fishery Management Council on Thursday, Robert Barham, secretary of the Louisiana Department of Wildlife and Fisheries, announced that the state would open year-round fishing for red snapper in its territorial waters. Previously, state waters were open only on Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays.
Barham's decision was lauded by recreational anglers, but it jeopardizes the season length in federal waters, Crabtree said.
"The (Gulf) Council's decision was based on the assumption that all the state regulations would stay where they were the previous year and what Florida had proposed to do this year," he said. "The council was not aware of (Barham's decision) at the meeting, and we had not had time to factor that into any of this."
But Louisiana isn't the only rogue state in the Gulf. Texas has a year-long red snapper season that allows anglers to harvest as many as four fish per day with a minimum length limit of 15 inches.
Federal regulations allow only two fish per day of at least 16 inches in length.
Also, the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission is meeting Tuesday through Thursday of this week to, among other things, determine the season length and regulations for red-snapper harvest in state waters. The current proposal calls for the season to run May 24-July 14, but commissioners may alter that in response to the dramatic reduction in the federal season.
Mississippi and Alabama are in full compliance with the federal season.
Crabtree said regulators will meet this week after Florida announces its season to determine if the federal season needs to be cut again.
Louisiana's state waters historically have extended out to three miles off the coast, but in 2012, the Louisiana Wildlife and Fisheries Commission pushed that boundary to three marine leagues, or 10.357 miles, to match the territorial waters of Texas and the west coast of Florida.
The federal government has disputed the change.

**************

_Todd Masson can be reached at [email protected] or 504.232.3054._


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## offshorebound (Dec 7, 2012)

Sounds like a bunch of garbage to me! I'm about to target the state snaps even more to be able eat this summer!!!!


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## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

and our 0 limit season gets closer to reality. 

Or put another way, our 100% discard season will soon be in effect.


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## crawfishking (Apr 23, 2007)

I hope their precise models give us a .5 day season! 40 days was ridiculous enough. 11 is just laughable. Shut it down!


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## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

crawfishking said:


> I hope their precise models give us a .5 day season! 40 days was ridiculous enough. 11 is just laughable. Shut it down!


We have gone from seasons to precise numbers of fish, or an IFQ from what I read. That number is 22 currently and it's slated for reduction as soon as Roy can getter done. If you like fishing, this will be the best thing ever because you will be unable to get a hook to the bottom because the fish are so thick. Where else can you go to a decent spot and catch fish on every drop or cast? If keeping is your deal, it's not going to be that great. No worries about the fish either. Flipper is going to be obese.


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## crawfishking (Apr 23, 2007)

Mont said:


> We have gone from seasons to precise numbers of fish, or an IFQ from what I read. That number is 22 currently and it's slated for reduction as soon as Roy can getter done. If you like fishing, this will be the best thing ever because you will be unable to get a hook to the bottom because the fish are so thick. Where else can you go to a decent spot and catch fish on every drop or cast? If keeping is your deal, it's not going to be that great. No worries about the fish either. Flipper is going to be obese.


Yeah the really sad part about all of this though is the lack of diversity on our reefs now. Take away snapper season for a year and you might even see snapper disappear. I can't catch grouper or vermillion snapper and I don't have problems with trigger fish anymore either (except in State waters). I've caught some really long snapper since they've shut us down but I think the relative weights are down among snapper. Think about it. Why hasn't the record been broken yet? I think it's because there are too many snapper. All of the bigger snapper I have caught seem really poor to me.


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## Swells (Nov 27, 2007)

What is interesting is that I haven't seen a single article by a fish biologist about having "too many red snapper in the Northwestern Gulf of Mexico." I haven't snooped around a real lot but have you seen anything at all? 

Nope, the enviro mind doesn't work that way - according to them there should be 30 bazillion red snapper according to "historical records." I'm skeptical, since red snapper is nearly becoming a monoculture crop, like miles of soy beans or corn in the Mid-West. 

I fear that the loss of diversity is really a problem, since the red snapper are eating all the bait and not much else can survive. If there's one thing about enviros, they care about genetic diversity. Maybe we could inquire with Dr. Shipp or somebody about that (although he's a Mississippi dude, the wrong side of the Gulf). 

IMHO it's a huge problem, a nightmare created by an unbalanced approach by the NMFS. Maybe it is as Dr. Crabtree says - the big red snapper are but a symptom of a population boom that will soon crash. But I don't believe that hooey. I think we have a real problem on our hands.


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## Charlietunakiller (Jan 30, 2013)

The real problem is our government!


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## lbuoys (Apr 9, 2008)

Maybe we should get 100 boats and go take our resource back like the cowboys did out West. Makes my blood boil.


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## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

Live in Texas, Launch from Texas, boat resisted in Texas, and have a Texas fishing Licns. 

Texas regs on everything.


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## Captfry (May 21, 2004)

Jolly Roger said:


> Live in Texas, Launch from Texas, boat resisted in Texas, and have a Texas fishing Licns.
> 
> Texas regs on everything.


Yep!


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## samh (Oct 13, 2011)

I have no idea why we are not hearing our political representatives screaming about this. I may have to extend an invitation to Ted Cruz to go fishing let him catch some giant snapper he has to throw back. Then kick back with a Dos Equis and watch Fox news about how he is raising hell in DC about another stupid enviro myth.


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## Elgatoloco (Feb 9, 2008)

Fish for them 365 days a year. Texas is great. It's disappointing how this is really destroying our fish ecosystem the snapper are canabilizing other fish habitats.


Tom


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## Kenner21 (Aug 25, 2005)

Jolly Roger said:


> Live in Texas, Launch from Texas, boat resisted in Texas, and have a Texas fishing Licns.
> 
> Texas regs on everything.


Pretty much sums it up , I'm fed up with this nonsense.


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## jrab (May 3, 2010)

ElGatoLoco said:


> Fish for them 365 days a year. Texas is great. It's disappointing how this is really destroying our fish ecosystem the snapper are canabilizing other fish habitats.
> 
> Tom


Yup this summer instead of taking my 4 year old son to catch sun perch I'm going to take him to catch snapper it is easier and a faster bite

You don't even have to jig for them just drop the jig (if it makes it down close to the bottom) and let it sit for a second then reel in 5-20lb fish until you get sick of doing it


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## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

Red Snapper will eat each other. I have personally seen them do it. What is happening is similar to when a non native species moves in. 

Take away the major predator (us) and it upsets the balance. We have moved from one extreme to the other. When there were no limits, someone decided they were over fished. Now the limit is (or seems it will be soon), 0. It would be impossible to find a case where something has changed so radically, and yet there are still "0" fish. Federal fishery management is a failure. The only chance we have to fix it is to cut the funding out from under the program and I won't live long enough to see that happen.


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## donf (Aug 8, 2005)

Crabtree needs to die.


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## gater (May 25, 2004)

*Why*

Why, he is already brain dead!


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## donf (Aug 8, 2005)

Nobody got an address for Roy ?


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## GooseCommanderozz (Feb 17, 2012)

donf said:


> Crabtree needs to die.


Hehe, by far my favorite post. Seriously, someone needs to take Crabtree and his other members fishing and let them see personally the "endangered" population that is going cannibalistic on each other.


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## Slightly Dangerous (May 21, 2004)

I predict that this year we will see the red snapper harvest from Texas state waters be the best ever.


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## awesum (May 31, 2006)

*That didn't work either .....*



GooseCommanderozz said:


> Hehe, by far my favorite post. Seriously, someone needs to take Crabtree and his other members fishing and let them see personally the "endangered" population that is going cannibalistic on each other.


I either heard someone tell this story or I read it here .... but I was told that a noted boat captain was selected and some NOAA members were taken into the gulf for red snappers. As he was heading toward some predetermined spots that held lots of snapper he was instructed to stop the boat and let them fish. This was miles from any structure so of course they caught no fish. I was told they were satisfied with the results.

Disclaimer: I make no claims that this is true but it sounds right to me.


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## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

awesum said:


> I either heard someone tell this story or I read it here .... but I was told that a noted boat captain was selected and some NOAA members were taken into the gulf for red snappers. As he was heading toward some predetermined spots that held lots of snapper he was instructed to stop the boat and let them fish. This was miles from any structure so of course they caught no fish. I was told they were staisfied with the results.
> 
> Disclaimer: I make no claims that this is true but it sounds right to me.


It's true. The way fisheries samples are taken in the entire fishing area is divided into a numbered grid. Random numbers are then generated and those numbered cells in the grid are where fishing takes place. That's that 8th grade explanation of how fishery sampling is done.

It's done the same way in our bays by TPWD.

We all know how snapper will tend to congregate over a bottom feature as well as how they won't swim 10 feet to take a bait. That's why we drift bottom for the most part to get the bait to the fish. The fish won't come to the bait unless you are close enough for them to smell it.


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## offshorebound (Dec 7, 2012)

Jolly Roger said:


> Live in Texas, Launch from Texas, boat resisted in Texas, and have a Texas fishing Licns.
> 
> Texas regs on everything.


I like your way of thinking Jolly:idea:


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## spurgersalty (Jun 29, 2010)

Jolly Roger said:


> Live in Texas, Launch from Texas, boat resisted in Texas, and have a Texas fishing Licns.
> 
> Texas regs on everything.


I'm all for it


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## Trouthappy (Jun 12, 2008)

Mont said:


> Red Snapper will eat each other. I have personally seen them do it. What is happening is similar to when a non native species moves in.
> 
> Take away the major predator (us) and it upsets the balance. We have moved from one extreme to the other. When there were no limits, someone decided they were over fished. Now the limit is (or seems it will be soon), 0. It would be impossible to find a case where something has changed so radically, and yet there are still "0" fish. Federal fishery management is a failure. The only chance we have to fix it is to cut the funding out from under the program and I won't live long enough to see that happen.


You've watched them underwater eat each other, or seen snapper used as cut bait? There's a difference. I've watched big snapper chase a beeliner across the bottom in 96 feet, trying to eat it, but the sows never seem to bother the smaller red snapper. In any case it's time to claim all snapper as caught in state waters, the feds have gone too far.


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## donf (Aug 8, 2005)

It is gonna be a banner year for state water snapper.


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## hilton (Jan 28, 2008)

**** straight.

Crabtree said that we could possibly exceed our quota with a "0" day season due to state water catches - sounds like a plan to me.

If we are going to be penalized for something no matter what we do, we might as well make it happen, right?


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## CoastalOutfitters (Aug 20, 2004)

fire crabtree and his minions, take nmfs away from noaa and give to the fish and wildlfe svc. where it belongs.

manage resources by state with federal reporting



the end


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## HunterGirl (Jan 24, 2011)

Hi, guys. I am rather new on this scene and please correct me if I am wrong but besides our Feds screwing this up, wasn't it the commercial fishing lobby that brought this suit up and won, causing the 11 day season. Why are they getting the free pass on this? Taking on the Fed will be a long, expensive and tough fight, and I am not one to avoid a fight nor do I think we should avoid this fight. But, I also feel that we should take this to another front as well. 
The commercials sell their catch to restaurants, grocers, and other retail outlets. What do you think would happen if we started a boycott of any establishment that sells red snapper? I think that an effective boycott would cause those establishments to stop buying snapper until the heat was off. This takes very little money, some effort, and boycotts have worked in the past to acheive results. 
I just think the commercials need to feel some pressure because they are the ones who got us to this point by being in bed with the feds. Just my $.02 worth.

HG


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## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

Trouthappy said:


> You've watched them underwater eat each other, or seen snapper used as cut bait? There's a difference. I've watched big snapper chase a beeliner across the bottom in 96 feet, trying to eat it, but the sows never seem to bother the smaller red snapper. In any case it's time to claim all snapper as caught in state waters, the feds have gone too far.


I have watched them diving. The way they will fight over being in some little hole in the structure is amazing too. The bottom layer of the gulf usually has about 6 or 7 feet of murk right on top of it. I chased many an anchor rope down into that stuff back in the day. Leaving our anchor out there wasn't an option if we still had enough air to go get it. On a good weekend, I would bring home one or two extras, plus all kinds of weights and a knife here and there.


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## chad (Sep 7, 2006)

I haven't put up one of my favorite Thomas Jefferson quotes in a while so here it is with another quote that sort of fits this occasion.


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## sureshot840 (Mar 3, 2009)

What you think?


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## Empty Pockets CC (Feb 18, 2009)

chad said:


> I haven't put up one of my favorite Thomas Jefferson quotes in a while so here it is with another quote that sort of fits this occasion.


Excellent idea!


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## Empty Pockets CC (Feb 18, 2009)

http://content.govdelivery.com/accounts/FLFFWCC/bulletins/b1a5af
Florida gave their citizens 52 days this year it looks like. Too bad they were this obedient....maybe the other outstanding states will be more disobedient/non compliant?


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## TKoenig (Apr 8, 2007)

if we get 0 days snapper in fed water this year the guides are going to be knocking the living **** out of the tiles. 

and then this **** is gonna transfer over to another species.


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## Snookered (Jun 16, 2009)

Empty Pockets CC said:


> http://content.govdelivery.com/accounts/FLFFWCC/bulletins/b1a5af
> Florida gave their citizens 52 days this year it looks like. Too bad they were this obedient....maybe the other outstanding states will be more disobedient/non compliant?


 way to go FL! FL going to 52 days *should* put us over the 0-day, by NMFS's number cookbook....

just waiting for Crabtree's announcement for the "official" 0-day Federal season that will be set....

MS and AL, whatcha gonna do now?

oh, and as soon as the 0-day Fed season is announced, that should IMMEDIATELY shut down the CFH Pilot program for the season.....
snookered


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## DRILHER (Apr 4, 2010)

sureshot840 said:


> What you think?


Good one. Where can I get some.


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## trapper67 (Mar 23, 2011)

Snookered said:


> way to go FL! FL going to 52 days *should* put us over the 0-day, by NMFS's number cookbook....
> 
> just waiting for Crabtree's announcement for the "official" 0-day Federal season that will be set....
> 
> ...


x 100 !!!!


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## Swells (Nov 27, 2007)

HunterGirl said:


> Hi, guys. I am rather new on this scene and please correct me if I am wrong but besides our Feds screwing this up, wasn't it the commercial fishing lobby that brought this suit up and won, causing the 11 day season. Why are they getting the free pass on this? Taking on the Fed will be a long, expensive and tough fight, and I am not one to avoid a fight nor do I think we should avoid this fight. But, I also feel that we should take this to another front as well.
> The commercials sell their catch to restaurants, grocers, and other retail outlets. What do you think would happen if we started a boycott of any establishment that sells red snapper? I think that an effective boycott would cause those establishments to stop buying snapper until the heat was off. This takes very little money, some effort, and boycotts have worked in the past to acheive results.
> I just think the commercials need to feel some pressure because they are the ones who got us to this point by being in bed with the feds. Just my $.02 worth.
> 
> HG


You're a smart lady. My recollection is that the commercial folks sued because they recreational sector was going over their allocation, which is measured in millions of pounds. The court agreed.

However, how factual that "overage" was is highly debatable, given the very loosey-goosey methods used to estimate the recreational poundage. For starters, there's an automatic 20% penalty called a "buffer." Then you have Texas and Louisiana having extended seasons, which penalizes us more. The TPWD survey of red snapper is further discounted, and from what I heard quite heavily. Finally, there are discards and bycatch.

So I'm not convinced that the recreational sector went "over" anything. If THAT is true, that we fished under our allocation, the whole premis of the court's decision is wrong, moot, and unconstitutional.

The commercial folks have "data" on their side, or so they say because every single fish is processed by buyers, weighted whole and gutted, and put down on paper. Us recreational fisherman can't do that. That is exactly why the court believed this nonsense from the commercial folks - since we didn't have any data to refute it.

Instead, Dr. Crabtree simply testified (or supplied information) that the recreational sector had gone over its poundage every single year. All he had to do was to say so, as if it was a fact that could be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

To me, that is despicable in the extreme. We showed up to a gunfight with some very dull knives!

But don't believe that the commercial red snapper fishermen are doing America some grandiose, noble favor by catching and serving all those red snapper. That argument is patently FALSE, since we import about 80% of our snapper (often mislabeled by the way) which is sold in the US. The US red snapper commercial market is actually quite small compared to the metric tons of imports. Corporations like HEB like to advertise how they do all this great stuff for America while lying to us at the same time. If you think there are no fish pirates in the commercial sector, well, you'd be very wrong.

~sammie


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## meaux fishing (Feb 6, 2010)

sureshot840 said:


> What you think?


where can I get a can?


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## Scott (May 24, 2004)

I have always heard there is a great deal of cheating in the commercial red snapper industry. I have heard it from guys that work the boats. Seems to me, us rec guys can really put some pressure on TP&W to start boarding and checking commercial boats. Granted, TP&W doesn't have jurisdiction to likely prosecute or enforce federal regulations, but if they find a violator, don't they call the Feds. Let's get the Feds phones ringing off the hook (pun intended) and then start calling out on the web the names of the captains, boats etc. that are commercial violators. Seems to me, using the laws that are in effect against the commercial boys is the best way to put pressure and prove that maybe it is "they" that are over harvesting??? Just my two cents....


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## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

sureshot840 said:


> What you think?


Think my pirate ship going to need a few cases of that this year


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## trapper67 (Mar 23, 2011)

Jolly Roger said:


> Think my pirate ship going to need a few cases of that this year


LOL.......


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## trapper67 (Mar 23, 2011)

I thought this was funny.....
http://www.thehulltruth.com/gulf-co...-crabtree-today-about-endangered-snapper.html


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## Txfishman (Jun 20, 2004)

Florida

http://content.govdelivery.com/accounts/FLFFWCC/bulletins/b1a5af


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## samh (Oct 13, 2011)

Empty Pockets CC said:


> http://content.govdelivery.com/accounts/FLFFWCC/bulletins/b1a5af
> Florida gave their citizens 52 days this year it looks like. Too bad they were this obedient....maybe the other outstanding states will be more disobedient/non compliant?


Florida has a large commercial fleet if they went non-compliant there would most likely be a lot of political fall out. Florida also has a healthy shallow water grouper fishery that keeps the offshore rec's happy.


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## donf (Aug 8, 2005)

Here's our year round snapper season. add a cordless fillet knife and a 24 oz lead weight and we got it going.


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## Empty Pockets CC (Feb 18, 2009)

Lead?! That's expensive! Bricks are cheaper and work just as good.


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## donf (Aug 8, 2005)

Ya know, you are absolutely right!!!!!


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## GooseCommanderozz (Feb 17, 2012)

If the recreational anglers of Texas get a 0 day snapper season, commercial fishing for them needs to be shut down. If the population is THAT bad off, why is there still commercial fishing on them?


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## Empty Pockets CC (Feb 18, 2009)

GooseCommanderozz said:


> If the recreational anglers of Texas get a 0 day snapper season, commercial fishing for them needs to be shut down. If the population is THAT bad off, why is there still commercial fishing on them?


If they cut us down to 11 days the comm sector needs to be shut down period. If a resource is that stressed causing an 11 day season no one should be able to fish for the darn things. Of course we know this is just BS. The resource is not stressed


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## GooseCommanderozz (Feb 17, 2012)

Empty Pockets CC said:


> If they cut us down to 11 days the comm sector needs to be shut down period. If a resource is that stressed causing an 11 day season no one should be able to fish for the darn things. Of course we know this is just BS. The resource is not stressed


Agreed, there's so many snapper suspended about 20 ft under the boat, couldn't catch kingfish last year for them.


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## Lostinpecos (Jul 9, 2013)

Can't wait to expose the corruption and punish those that are accountable!


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## salt walker (Jan 11, 2010)

*They are occupying our minds!*

These short seasons since 2007? are just pitiful. I totally agree that we need new management whether it's by cleaning house or giving it to the states. 
HOWEVER, while we are all bickering about one fish species, other countries like MEXICO are decimating other fisheries. I take quite a few boats down to Mexico (Tuxpan, Veracruz, Progresso, Cancun) and I see the devastation firsthand. Gillnets, unattended longlines with a thousand hooks or more, shrimp boats catching and keeping fish, 20 or more panga boats at deepwater rigs throwing yellowfin tuna in with no ice, blue marlin of any size being killed for pics or sold commercially and, undoubtedly not much if any enforcement and/or reporting of fish caught in their waters or poached from US waters. 
Everyday redsnapper, grouper, tilefish, yellowfin and even bluefin tuna (bluefin tuna which are illegal to commercially harvest in the gulf of mexico for the US commercial fleet) are imported across the border and sold to restaurants in TEXAS and shipped all over the US. 
Panga boats have given a young guy with not much money in a third world country the opportunity to own a seaworthy boat with a relatively lower horsepower outboard motor for less than $10,000. Panga boats have also made Yamaha very rich. Now these boats are everywhere and there's no enforcement with a drug war going on. A few other fisheries that we as anglers don't really pay much attention to are the baitfish. All along the Yucatan and the shallower waters of the Bay of Campeche, there are thousands of smaller gill nets catching tons of ballyhoo, sardines, pilchards, goggle eyes, mullet and more. Did anyone notice the shortage of ballyhoo last year? 
TPWD Game Wardens and a few party boats like the Osprey 2 out of South Padre Island have reported and removed abandoned gill nets with more than 3,000 dead sharks of different varieties. One game warden told me that he's pulled gill nets and longlines with sailfish, red snapper, red drum, grouper and just about any fish we catch within 15 miles of SPI jetties.
It's time for a fisheries management overhaul and international enforcement!
Write or call your senators and reps, put them on the spot in public forums, do your part to make it fair for everyone - recs, CFH, headboats and commercial.
And don't be blinded by one fish!


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## hilton (Jan 28, 2008)

It's not about 1 fish species and never has been - it's about every federally managed fish that swims out there, and creating a system where they can skim $$$ off of each and every one we catch.


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## salt walker (Jan 11, 2010)

hilton said:


> It's not about 1 fish species and never has been - it's about every federally managed fish that swims out there, and creating a system where they can skim $$$ off of each and every one we catch.


You're right. Not to you and I but to some casual observers and those people who don't have the time to pay attention to all of this, when all they DO HEAR is "red snapper" and this pitting "commercial vs recs" or "recs vs CFH"...it's easy to lose sight of the bigger picture. If Mexico and the rest of the world is left to take as they please, we will have a lot bigger problems than a short recreational red snapper season.


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## Swells (Nov 27, 2007)

hilton said:


> It's not about 1 fish species and never has been - it's about every federally managed fish that swims out there, and creating a system where they can skim $$$ off of each and every one we catch.


Of course you're right, but for the average fisherman, red snapper is where it's at. It is "chicken of the sea" and that's what most of the folks target, since you don't need a range of 100 miles out to sea for tuna, swordfish, and throw-back marlin. I've been fishing out of Corpus and SPI since the late 80s and it was all about red snapper and some "interesting bycatch" like maybe a triggerfish, spade, or strawberry grouper. We'd say "dayum that's ugly" and the crew would assure us it was good eating, near as good as red snapper.

That one fish, red snapper, made our Gulf coast famous. Sometime by or during the 90s, the grouper seemed to vanish, leaving ... more red snapper! Now the triggerfish is endangered ... gosh we used to hate those pesky (but delicious if of good size) bait stealers. If you had a good AJ hole you kept that secret and tried to NOT catch red snapper, with almost zero success. Red snapper is now the predominant reef fishery in the US Gulf of Mexico.

There ain't much else!

So it's all about red snapper. I know you have an excellent point but what else can you catch besides trash fish? I don't considered sharpnose and bonnethead shark to be good. Stray bluefish ... trash. Huge logs of over-size redfish? Trash. Buck-tooth kings? Trash! Spadefish? Yuck! Gafftop slimers? Gimme a break. Red snapper is the shizzle man. There isn't much else left unless you got a big fuel tank and lots of money.

I think the red snapper ate 'em all up.


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## cuzn dave (Nov 29, 2008)

Swells said:


> You're a smart lady. My recollection is that the commercial folks sued because they recreational sector was going over their allocation, which is measured in millions of pounds. The court agreed.
> 
> However, how factual that "overage" was is highly debatable, given the very loosey-goosey methods used to estimate the recreational poundage. For starters, there's an automatic 20% penalty called a "buffer." Then you have Texas and Louisiana having extended seasons, which penalizes us more. The TPWD survey of red snapper is further discounted, and from what I heard quite heavily. Finally, there are discards and bycatch.
> 
> ...


Amen to that, brother.
After signing all the petitions, making calls and emails, is there anything one can actually do?
On a party boat trip 2 yrs ago deckhands were saying there weren't any Triggers cause the big snappers were eating them all.


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## hilton (Jan 28, 2008)

Swells
First it's snapper, then grouper, amberjack, dorado, ling, wahoo, tuna....ALL to be charged by the pound if you want to bring it back. You can go out today and pay $16/pound for whole gutted snapper on circle h charters. More of this to come with rec IFQs.


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## hilton (Jan 28, 2008)

Hey, that's a NICE 20 pound snapper you just caught there! You wanna take that home? That will be $320 please - will that be cash or charge?


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## luna sea II (Jul 11, 2009)

Who is enforcing the nine mile line? If it's the state of Texas why don't they stand down? NOAA agents, federal game wardens, and USCG are the only federal agencies that can write you a ticket for red snapper in federal waters. There are not very many federal agents and the coast guard doesn't generally do recreational fishery enforcement.


Scott


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## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

luna sea II said:


> Who is enforcing the nine mile line? If it's the state of Texas why don't they stand down? NOAA agents, federal game wardens, and USCG are the only federal agencies that can write you a ticket for red snapper in federal waters. There are not very many federal agents and the coast guard doesn't generally do recreational fishery enforcement.
> 
> Scott


Coast guard will check fish at times. Few fed boats, but not many. Might be more this year, do not know.

Texas state game wardens can write tickets for Fed violations. Charter boat captains in Texas pushed and got this law passed a year or so ago.

"Statutes & Regulations
The law enforcement officers employed by the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department have the same powers and privileges as any other state peace officers. They have the same authority as a sheriff, for instance, to arrest, serve criminal or civil process, and require aid in serving criminal or civil process, and may arrest without a warrant any person in this state for violating the law. The primary duty of the agencyâ€™s law enforcement personnel is to enforce statutes (for example, the Texas Parks and Wildlife Code and the Texas Penal Code) enacted by the Texas Legislature, as well as  regulations (sometimes referred to as â€œproclamationsâ€) enacted by the Parks and Wildlife Commission under authority delegated by the legislature. In addition, Texas game wardens hold federal commissions issued by the U.S. Department of the Interior and the U.S. Department of Commerce for purposes of enforcing federal fisheries and wildlife laws in Texas."


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## Africanut (Jan 15, 2008)

Being from Port mansfield and its notoriety for being the state water snap mecca that some people perceive it as, I can tell you that there is un-intended consequence happening here that I noticed.
Our "true" state water snaps are going down in size and ease of catching them.
Yes we have an abundance of inside 9 mile structure here. But what is happening is the total saturation of head boats in this area over the last 5 winters or so is having a detrimental effect on the snaps--then throw in the bay boats and the cross-over crowd targeting the close in numbers and reefs and it is chewing them up. 5yrs ago a guy could go out in Feb. to a closely guarded rock up North and easily catch 20-28 inch snapper/limit in 30 minutes--now the same place will net you a lot of fish in the sub 15 inch range and 2-3 hr limiting time with an average if you are lucky of 16-19 inch fish. I am not blaming the head boats and operators like the Osprey and Thunderbird --but it is having an effect.
What is rediculous is the fact that they must fish state water snapper to even stay in business--when in a mathematical sense they are limited to fishing 5% of the viable water for 100% of their take.

I have had a lot of experience dealing with the USFW. I have cleared at least 9 shipments of hunting trophies and probably had contact with at 50-60 of their agents. The difference between them and the state GW's is this.
With the feds you are dealing with a different animal with a different mentality. The fed GW's have the mindset of the most part as a PETA or Sierra Club member has--they view us in an adversarial manner. We are the parasites in their opinion--we are the takers--we can not be trusted with a wildlife resource without strict enforcement and scrutiny.
The state GW's on the other hand for the most part are hunters and fishermen too--and they for the most part love the sport and although their is always exceptions and stories to the contrary --I find that statement to be for the most part true.
All of the feds I had dealings with viewed me with derision and where appalled that someone would sport hunt--and never gave me a break on anything pertaining to clearance on my stuff. Never gave them a reason but they tried their darndest.

All I am saying with this is this--I know what is hinted at on these snap threads--and until we man up and IGNORE the feds then nothing will change. 
What I mean by that is us personally--our game wardens giving aid and assistance --and our state government and legislators.
I think it is a lost cause to fight the feds head on and directly--we need to start putting the effort into turning up the heat on our own people.
We need to what we did with the shrimp and tell the feds to go ......... themselves.
I do--I am one of the outlaws...and I am not afraid to say it................


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## Momma's Worry (Aug 3, 2009)

Who is enforcing the nine mile line? If it's the state of Texas why don't they stand down? NOAA agents, federal game wardens, and USCG are the only federal agencies that can write you a ticket for red snapper in federal waters. There are not very many federal agents and the coast guard doesn't generally do recreational fishery enforcement.


Scott

LA wardens i believe are standing down now unlike a couple years ago when they roamed fed water enforcing fed law....they produced a document stating they had athority to board my vessel and search it...which they did,then asked me to do a fish survey,which I did not...I was not fishing at the time, 17 miles off Camron....
Tx State Warden off Sabine Pass stopped me once and said he would hold me till the coast guard got there if he found any fed violations during a search as they enforce all laws........
I believe Texas P&W will be at that state line enforcing fed law to catch fed snaps just before they become state snaps....which they should not...don't ask/don't tell

I heard a story I believe to be true about weighted gutted snaps hanging over the side in fed water ...if approched by LEO's before becoming state snaps they are simply released ...... 

I also believe there will be more agressive LEO's searching boaters(salt water) off Texas this year than ever before in our history.........


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## Africanut (Jan 15, 2008)

Momma's Worry said:


> Who is enforcing the nine mile line? If it's the state of Texas why don't they stand down? NOAA agents, federal game wardens, and USCG are the only federal agencies that can write you a ticket for red snapper in federal waters. There are not very many federal agents and the coast guard doesn't generally do recreational fishery enforcement.
> 
> Scott
> 
> ...


Binoculars, swim bladders deflated,every snap strung up on stringer attached to throw away mushroom anchor, erase your trails.


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## Swells (Nov 27, 2007)

Nobody is really watching the 9-mile line unless they're spotted by aerial recon, very few boats except the ones on routine patrol between SPI and the Rio Grande - but they're looking for Mexican "launchas" in panga boats, not US fishermen. I'm only aware of one boat in the last 5 years getting dinging for being "over the line," which was probably stupid luck. That was back then the gas wells were just over the line in Federal waters - too bad the gas wells were removed because they were holding all kinds of good fish. 

Most of the time the LEOs will set up by the port jetties and channels and check random or profiled boats. You'd be surprised at how much "stupid" they can find, although it's not only fish but boating while intoxicated, no TX registration, no license, and silly stuff. Many are actually let go after they scare the **** out of the captain & crew, maybe issue a $500 fine if the coolers hold one fish too many. In other words, they usually work the inside, not the outside by the line. 

Sorry to hear that Mansfield is getting fished out.


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## chad (Sep 7, 2006)

Africanut said:


> Being from Port mansfield and its notoriety for being the state water snap mecca that some people perceive it as, I can tell you that there is un-intended consequence happening here that I noticed.
> Our "true" state water snaps are going down in size and ease of catching them.
> Yes we have an abundance of inside 9 mile structure here. But what is happening is the total saturation of head boats in this area over the last 5 winters or so is having a detrimental effect on the snaps--then throw in the bay boats and the cross-over crowd targeting the close in numbers and reefs and it is chewing them up. 5yrs ago a guy could go out in Feb. to a closely guarded rock up North and easily catch 20-28 inch snapper/limit in 30 minutes--now the same place will net you a lot of fish in the sub 15 inch range and 2-3 hr limiting time with an average if you are lucky of 16-19 inch fish. I am not blaming the head boats and operators like the Osprey and Thunderbird --but it is having an effect.
> What is rediculous is the fact that they must fish state water snapper to even stay in business--when in a mathematical sense they are limited to fishing 5% of the viable water for 100% of their take.
> ...


Perfectly said and i totally agree.


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## donf (Aug 8, 2005)

Africanut said:


> Binoculars, swim bladders deflated,every snap strung up on stringer attached to throw away mushroom anchor, erase your trails.


Or I've heard of guys just making fillets on the boat and weighting the air purged ziplock bags with a big old rock. But that's just talk I heard.


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## phillimj (May 14, 2008)

Filets don't float


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## My Little Big boat (Apr 24, 2012)

phillimj said:


> Filets don't float


But sink faster with a rock...


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## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

crawfish sacks come in handy also


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## Africanut (Jan 15, 2008)

Don't get me wrong, I have received one ticket relating to game laws.
I was dove hunting with a Mossberg shotgun (can't remember the model number) that used a plastic, thin, limber plug. I saw the game warden watching us and continued to shoot at birds and finally he came up and checked us. He had watched me shoot at least 4-5 three volleys before approaching us. He turned my shotgun over and rested the barrel on his boot toe and proceeded to force a third shell into the magazine. I was aware that it would stop at about a 1/4 inch from taking that 3rd -2 3/4 shell but had never forced it. 
I had him take it into evidence even though he didn't want to. I had my day in court and showed the JP how you had to force it. I then took the plug out and showed him where it was a factory plug. He gave me the minimum fine of $50.00 and no points.
I sold the shotgun.

My point is this.
You will not find me with an over the limit on game animals--they will be tagged correctly, not shot after dark or by illegal means.
I hardly ever bring in a limit of trout or redfish--because what is the use.
I only eat fish a couple of times a month. 
I will release that 29-30 inch trout and keep three of those 22-25's.
But that being said.
I get to go offshore about 3-4 times a year because of work schedule and gas prices.
But when I do--rest assured I will put some snapper in the freezer, hopefully with a ling, hooters, and mahi.
The feds are not our friends. 
Why should we act like they are.


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## Scott (May 24, 2004)

Africanut said:


> I have had a lot of experience dealing with the USFW. I have cleared at least 9 shipments of hunting trophies and probably had contact with at 50-60 of their agents. The difference between them and the state GW's is this.
> With the feds you are dealing with a different animal with a different mentality. The fed GW's have the mindset of the most part as a PETA or Sierra Club member has--they view us in an adversarial manner. We are the parasites in their opinion--we are the takers--we can not be trusted with a wildlife resource without strict enforcement and scrutiny.
> The state GW's on the other hand for the most part are hunters and fishermen too--and they for the most part love the sport and although their is always exceptions and stories to the contrary --I find that statement to be for the most part true.
> All of the feds I had dealings with viewed me with derision and where appalled that someone would sport hunt--and never gave me a break on anything pertaining to clearance on my stuff. Never gave them a reason but they tried their darndest.


Don't mean to hijack this thread, but this is a very valid point. I used to duck and goose guide and experienced much of the same thing. I even heard a story from a fellow guide where a Fed agent broke the law so that he could write a ticket to the guide and claim some kind of lack of instruction argument. Obviously, the charge was eventually dropped due to entrapment issues, but it goes to show that they are nobody's friend. They often come from out of state to patrol an area and have no loyalty or care for the folks they are are interacting with.

State TPW agents are different. I have a friend who is one. They often live in the community and area they patrol and are tied to that community. They are good guys that love what they do and are understanding toward those they serve. Now, there are exceptions. At times TPW sends temporary wardens to an area to patrol. I have had difficulty with at least one of these guys. I think he was just generally PO'd that he had to travel and be out of his usual territory. But after dealing with him a couple years, I learned he was more like a Fed guy than a state warden. (He even wrote a guy a ticket for driving a four wheeler twenty feet on a gravel county road to load it on a trailer. We tried to explain that it was too wet to get the trucks onto the farm road and had no choice. He just kept writing.)

My interaction with Feds has always been they have a bad attitude from the get go... my experience is they haven't even been polite. When I would see one headed into a goose spread of mine, I would get all my hunters to unload their guns, set them down by their pits, stand up and walk twenty feet away from their guns waiting for the Fed warden to walk into the spread to check us. I thought that was being thoughtful and respectful. I had one Fed immediately walk into the spread and immediately become very confrontational about why we had walked away from our guns.... duh??? With the Feds, I don't think you can ever win.


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## salt walker (Jan 11, 2010)

*State Season?*

I, as a charter fishing guide, do not give a **** if anyone catches and keeps their legal limit of snapper no matter where they are caught because the regulation is so ridiculous. However, some regs are needed such as those on AJs, ling, grouper and some sharks. 
Along with those regs, I believe we do need some regulation of red snapper. I'd love to see Texas extend our boundary to 30, 40 or even 50 nautical miles and go with two 2.5 month seasons for red snapper along with the same regs on everything else except gag grouper. Gags should be 1/person per trip year round or at least two 4 month seasons. I know not everyone is going to agree with me but I'm going with what I see fishing 150 days a year or more on my boat and others as well as talking to others who fish as much. 
As for goin rebel, I'm all for it but as an owner/captain of a charter business with Federal Reef Fish Permits, I will not partake and risk my livelihood. 
Buena Suerte to those of you who do go rebel. I hope it sends the right message to D.C. and St. Petersburg, FL.


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## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

salt walker said:


> I, as a charter fishing guide, do not give a **** if anyone catches and keeps their legal limit of snapper no matter where they are caught because the regulation is so ridiculous. However, some regs are needed such as those on AJs, ling, grouper and some sharks.
> Along with those regs, I believe we do need some regulation of red snapper. I'd love to see Texas extend our boundary to 30, 40 or even 50 nautical miles and go with two 2.5 month seasons for red snapper along with the same regs on everything else except gag grouper. Gags should be 1/person per trip year round or at least two 4 month seasons. I know not everyone is going to agree with me but I'm going with what I see fishing 150 days a year or more on my boat and others as well as talking to others who fish as much.
> As for goin rebel, I'm all for it but as an owner/captain of a charter business with Federal Reef Fish Permits, I will not partake and risk my livelihood.
> Buena Suerte to those of you who do go rebel. I hope it sends the right message to D.C. and St. Petersburg, FL.


I would agree, REC fishermen are asking for and wanting is a fair season on red snapper. Nothing more. In my opinion I would like to see a season from Memorial day until Labor day weekend. Keep the two per person. There is no need to count every single snapper the RECs catch nor is there any need for over inflated, complex bureaucratic FED nonsense that has destroyed the snapper fishing in the Gulf.

Need more common sense approach, need to fire the FEDs and let TPWD set the seasons.


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## wLeeBull (Oct 22, 2010)

phillimj said:


> Filets don't float


I was weaiting for that ...Knew it


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