# Off hand cast



## karstopo (Jun 29, 2009)

My last couple of outings, I've had significant, show stopping pain in my right shoulder when I make a forward or back cast, especially if I put anything into the cast. 

Has anyone ever developed a credible offhand, no dominate hand cast? I'm sure it will be worse than rough at first, but if anyone has tried to develop a non dominate cast and succeeded or failed I would like to hear about the experience. 

I did once or twice on the jetties do a left hand cast to compensate for the wind. It wasn't as bad as expected, but I wasn't throwing it very far. The jetties isn't a place to learn a cast anyway.


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## Bill Gammel (Aug 16, 2012)

You can do it. It will not be as bad as starting to cast from scratch, because you already know how to cast. I would start from the beginning and go slow. It will not be something that you will be good at tomorrow. I would start very short and go one foot at a time. Often people end up a more efficient caster with their off hand because they can't rely on strength and natural athletic ability. Don't be afraid to cast with a different style than you do with your dominant hand.

I have a youtube channel that I am building. It is certainly not complete but there is a play list entitled learning to cast. I am not trying to insult you. I know you know how to cast, but it is a series of drills that I think will get you back in the game very quickly. I have had a great deal of success helping people with these drills.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxly4y6kgzSrerWEnGHUWBA

Hope this helps.
Bill


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## bigfishtx (Jul 17, 2007)

Have you tried the two hand cast? I know when my shoulder starts acting up, I use it and can really throw a long ways.

You basically hold the rod over your dominant shoulder, and use both arms to fling it. Your shoulder gets very little range of motion doing this.


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## karstopo (Jun 29, 2009)

Bill Gammel said:


> You can do it. It will not be as bad as starting to cast from scratch, because you already know how to cast. I would start from the beginning and go slow. It will not be something that you will be good at tomorrow. I would start very short and go one foot at a time. Often people end up a more efficient caster with their off hand because they can't rely on strength and natural athletic ability. Don't be afraid to cast with a different style than you do with your dominant hand.
> 
> I have a youtube channel that I am building. It is certainly not complete but there is a play list entitled learning to cast. I am not trying to insult you. I know you know how to cast, but it is a series of drills that I think will get you back in the game very quickly. I have had a great deal of success helping people with these drills.
> 
> ...


I'll take a look, thank you. Not insulting at all. Maybe this shoulder pain will go away, I did some major landscaping and it might be related to that, but if it doesn't I want to keep fishing.


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## karstopo (Jun 29, 2009)

bigfishtx said:


> Have you tried the two hand cast? I know when my shoulder starts acting up, I use it and can really throw a long ways.
> 
> You basically hold the rod over your dominant shoulder, and use both arms to fling it. Your shoulder gets very little range of motion doing this.


I need to try this.


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## karstopo (Jun 29, 2009)

I watched the series, Mr. Gammel. Thank you for producing that, the skill and love is obvious. Good explanation of the physics. I've done all the wrong things and sometimes the right ones. I have done the biggest right thing you go over at the end of each video. Thanks again, God bless.


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## boomer21 (Dec 28, 2015)

To reiterate what Bill stated, you'll eventually find that your off hand casting is more fluid and efficient due to the need for proper technique versus strong hand power. I started off hand casting last spring after fighting the wind way too much in a couple of situations on Andros. My guide kept telling me I could cast left handed and I eventually made some decent casts.

I started from scratch working on my off hand casting when I returned home. I worked on loop development with 1 foot, then 10 feet, then 20, and extended on. Next, I worked on double hauling. The one constant I found in casting off hand, is that I do a much better job of loading the rod and moving smoothly versus trying to gun out 80-100' of line with my dominant hand. I'm now good to about 65' in a decent wind with my off hand. 

It's a great option to be able to cast from both sides, it really opens up more fishing opportunities. If two casters are trying to fish from a drift boat, the guide REALLY appreciates what a left and right hand caster brings to the boat. Have fun with it, and you'll find it'll come without too much effort. It has made me a much better caster on my dominant side.


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## Bill Gammel (Aug 16, 2012)

Boomer good point. I have also seen flats guides that were very grateful for a switch hitter. Think about where that fly is when a right handed caster is casting to a fish at 1 or 2 on the clock face. 

The other playlist on that channel listed above is the Essentials of fly casting. The learning to cast series is designed for the caster to learn the essentials one at a time. If you just begin casting overhead you must learn all five essentials at once. That is difficult. By starting with the loops on the ground you take many of the variables out of your cast. I have been teaching this for years and have had a great deal of success. It is good for beginning casters and for those that are learning to cast with their off hand.

The one foot at a time drill is very similar to the approach Boomer used. I suggest every caster starts with the developing your cast and then the Adding power clips. This is a great way to start every spring when you are first getting your rods out. I have used them for years and pushed the same drill out many more feet than talked about on the video. I also do it one more time with the double haul, adding speed at every foot. I push myself on distance casting in the yard, going well past most fishing distance. This makes most fishing situations very reachable under any condition.

I hope this helps.

Bill


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## karstopo (Jun 29, 2009)

Big thanks to both of you all for the excellent tips. I've got some good information to put into practice, thanks again.


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## karstopo (Jun 29, 2009)

I went out in the church lot behind the house and tried the left hand cast. I had on an unweighted hook point clipped off size 4 Smart Shrimp. My cast did not stink as bad as I thought it might. I actually threw some decent loops. Had a lot of tailing ones too. I could put it out far enough to fish. There is no real consistency yet, but there is hope. I'm just going to have to keep at it to build muscle memory and get the rod tip plane and timing better. But there is hope. Thanks for the encouragement. 

I tried a couple of right hand casts. It hurt so bad I couldn't out cast the left side or form a decent loop. Definitely need to rest the right side.


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## Bill Gammel (Aug 16, 2012)

Karstopo, PM sent


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## Permit Rat (May 13, 2014)

karstopo said:


> I went out in the church lot behind the house and tried the left hand cast. I had on an unweighted hook point clipped off size 4 Smart Shrimp. My cast did not stink as bad as I thought it might. I actually threw some decent loops. *Had a lot of tailing ones too.* I could put it out far enough to fish. There is no real consistency yet, but there is hope. I'm just going to have to keep at it to build muscle memory and get the rod tip plane and timing better. But there is hope. Thanks for the encouragement.
> 
> I tried a couple of right hand casts. It hurt so bad I couldn't out cast the left side or form a decent loop. Definitely need to rest the right side.


 If you can find yourself some really high power lines, position yourself under them and "trace" your rod movements along the straight line they form, while you are false casting. Do this repeatedly, such that your arm/shoulder, etc. "remembers" the action. You want to do this before you develop a bad habit.


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## karstopo (Jun 29, 2009)

Permit Rat said:


> If you can find yourself some really high power lines, position yourself under them and "trace" your rod movements along the straight line they form, while you are false casting. Do this repeatedly, such that your arm/shoulder, etc. "remembers" the action. You want to do this before you develop a bad habit.


Good tip, I bet I have plenty of bad habits already. I've never been evaluated by anyone , taken a lesson, or fished with any fly fishermen or women to compare my cast to theirs. I don't live in the city and really don't have the extra time or a lot of interest to run up there for lessons. I am planning on spending some time in the stern of someone else's technical poling skiff pushing it through a local marsh if we can ever get our schedules in line. That will be a chance for me to learn and improve.


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## boomer21 (Dec 28, 2015)

Karstopo, best of luck with the journey, you'll find it to be alot of fun. 

Bill, thanks for the awesome casting videos! I look forward to seeing more of them.


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

This may or may not be useful...but if/when I get to where casting becomes difficult to impossible, I'll switch over to spey/skaggit casting whenever possible. 

I have found it to be much, much easier on the arm...plus you can shoot line out 90, 100 ft with ease. Takes some room to do the cast and one thing about it I don't like is the stealth factor (arms and rod waving all around during the cast) but it sure is easy on the body by comparison.


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## Bill Gammel (Aug 16, 2012)

Meadowlark, I had the opportunity to teach at a healing waters deal for wounded veterans. 

Two of the men that I was told I would be working with had serious weakness in their arms. I called Rick Pope at TFO and he sent a two handed 5 wt that was about 13 ft long. The two men had a great deal of success and fished all day taking turns with that rod. It was just the thing for them. They were not spey casting just simply overhead casting with two hands. It was very easy and they were great at mending line according to the guide that took them fishing the day after our lesson.

I think that a two handed rod would benefit anyone with arm trouble or older guys. Spey casting will help also. I have used a snake roll off the bow of a flats boat on more than one occasion. It is a quick way to change directions. 

In general, I think people would catch more fish if they would work more on there casting. One handed, two handed, off hand, and off shoulder.


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## karstopo (Jun 29, 2009)

Update on the offhand cast. I have done a few short sessions in the backyard. Yesterday, I had a break in my schedule in the afternoon and hit my local bay. It was windy and got even windier as the afternoon progressed, but I jumped in with some left hand casts in real Texas coastal conditions. 

It was ugly. Struggled with the backcast mightly. Open bay on a windy day is much different than the backyard in a gentle breeze. I fish standing up in my Commander which is more microskiff than kayak. It was a positive experience in spite of my struggles with stripping, line management, and the cast. I even managed to bring to hand 2 fish fishing left handed. Whoppers, too. Red went 9" and a black drum that might have been 11". 

Thanks to all for the help. Going to proceed with more practice on the range and some live fire drills out on the bay.


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## Scott F (Aug 26, 2005)

A shoulder problem made right hand casting too painful & I learned left handed casting. I'm ambidextrous so it wasn't that difficult. The main thing is you must practice. Your non-dominant Arnold is probably weaker, so improved technique will be needed. So even more practice.

After almost 10 yr of casting with either hand, I still notice reduced distance with 10 wt and above. I think it is because of the increased weight of the combined rod, reel & line compared to 8 wt & under outfits.

So, do the most difficult thing & start practicing. Get instruction, practice (almost) every day for 1 or 2 weeks and get more instruction. You will be at 80% of your dominant hand within 1 month. Getting above 80% requires more difficult decisions: instruction & practice.

My suggestion is starting with a "lighter" wt rod. This assumes you have a large collection of rods.

Scott


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## Bill Gammel (Aug 16, 2012)

Karstopo,

You mentioned having a problem with your back cast in the wind. Sight unseen this is my guess. I have seen this a 1000 times. When the strong wind is at the casters back, the caster will try to muscle the cast back. Making a normal back cast and then giving a little harder flick or snap at the very end. If this snap occurs after the arm stops moving, the snap will pull the tip down. It is the only direction the thumb can goon its on. This will form a loop that has a point on top with a corner on the bottom and this corner will get bigger as the loops trying to unroll. ( it will make the loop look almost square.) The bigger corner gets the more the wind will effect it. The more the wind effects it the harder the caster snaps at the end. The worse the corner gets. The more the wind will effect it, and so on. 

The key is to break the wrist and make the arm movement at the same time. Stopping both at the same time allowing the loop to form over the top of the rod. This is easier done with a small wrist break, but even with a large wrist break, if the wrist and arm stop at the same time you can throw a tight loop into the wind.

Bill


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## karstopo (Jun 29, 2009)

Thanks for the tips. Tried it some more on the water a little this afternoon. Wind was lighter and that helped. Line management was better as was stripping. That is feeling more natural. I notice I have a habit from the left side of extending my upper arm too high and out. Instinct is telling me I need some more yard practice. Need the controlled environment of not worrying about fishing, balancing in the kayak, etc. I did use a different Rod today, a slower action fiberglass 7-8 wt. I can really feel the bend, load on this Rod, at least from the right side. 

Good news is my right shoulder is much better. Able to cast at moderate range without much more than a little tingle in the joint. Not going to overdo the right. I still see the value of having a reasonably good left hand cast, even with a healing right shoulder.


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## Fishsurfer (Dec 14, 2014)

Bill Gammel said:


> You can do it. It will not be as bad as starting to cast from scratch, because you already know how to cast. I would start from the beginning and go slow. It will not be something that you will be good at tomorrow. I would start very short and go one foot at a time. Often people end up a more efficient caster with their off hand because they can't rely on strength and natural athletic ability. Don't be afraid to cast with a different style than you do with your dominant hand.
> 
> I have a youtube channel that I am building. It is certainly not complete but there is a play list entitled learning to cast. I am not trying to insult you. I know you know how to cast, but it is a series of drills that I think will get you back in the game very quickly. I have had a great deal of success helping people with these drills.
> 
> ...


Thanks Bill, I haven't had any instruction in such a long time and your videos are very enlightening with the contrasting background showing the basics in such a pure form. I see the mistakes I began to incorporate in my cast without even realizing it. Great videos that will really help no matter what your skill level. To be honest I really was looking for your techniques to be flawed in some way but they really are very helpful.


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## Bill Gammel (Aug 16, 2012)

Fishsurfer, Not quite sure why you were expecting them to be flawed other than this is free online advice. I understand that, but my father and I wrote the Essentials of Fly Casting almost 30 years ago and they have helped a lot of people learn to cast. 30 years ago fly casting instruction was "do it like me and you might be good like me." The essentials are a style free look at fly casting. The step by step drills were developed from my years of teaching lessons. I once worked a lot of shows for rod companies and if I could quickly teach someone to cast or fix their casting on the spot, it usually resulted in a rod sale. I am glad that you found them helpful and I really do appreciate you saying so. That video has been sold all over the world, but you can tell now that I really just want to help people learn and enjoy the sport. 

I really do feel that those step by step directions. Especially, the one foot at a time drills are the best practice lessons ever developed. I still use them today in my own casting practice. I am always pushing myself one foot at a time.

Again, I appreciate the compliment and hope others will find them helpful. 

Bill


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