# Cedar Bayou and VS meeting



## driftwoodfisher (Oct 4, 2005)

Here are few threads that I found about Cedar Bayou and VS in regards to the resent meeting this week in Rock Port.

I received a phone call last night concerning the meeting. It appears the meeting went excellent and the attention of the right people has been received. The ball is rolling per se at the state level and legal investigations have been started already. All parties involved will be meeting and going to Vinson Slough and Cedar Bayou in the next couple of weeks so that all parties involved can witness first hand the destruction. 


The real issue here is Vinson Slough and how the spoils from CB were directly placed at the mouth of it. Without VS flowing freely CB will never be able to stay open. From what I was told names were named, fingers were pointed and proof of what happened was unveiled. That proof is now in the hands of all parties involved and that ball is rolling. 

I am truly sick and tired of hearing about how Aransas has no fish left and everyone is struggling to catch fish. I hope my boys will be able to see this entire eco system restored to its former glory days and Rockport will once again become the premier bay and flats fishing spot for Texas. 

Thank you to all parties involved and thank you Lynn for you Tenacity. You deserve a long vacation after all this is done.


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## driftwoodfisher (Oct 4, 2005)

I am not so sure Mr.Gator. Sit back and watch. I believe the heat will be on soon enough. If there is enough publicity something will have to give. That pass and slough belongs to us not the Bass Family. What about the Whooping Crane? They are higher on the list of endangered list than the Piping Plover and that is their habitat also. 50 something whooping cranes have been killed since then because of habitat loss. How many Piping Plovers have been saved because of it? Where is your proof that the USFWS closed VS for the Piping Plover? It has to be documented. Please post it so that we can all be straightened out. 

What particular family or ranch has the most to gain by closing off Vinson Slough? As a matter of fact don't they gain and everyone else loses? In most investigations you look for the person or people who benefit the most and that is usually who is behind it. There is evidence that shows what is going on and it will all be reviled in a few weeks. 


Gator tell us who you are? This is your second post and now you are atacking Lynn. Quit hiding behind a name and tell us your real name and who you work for. It would only be right since we all have been here the whole time and you are some johnny come lately.


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## SolarScreenGuy (Aug 15, 2005)

driftwoodfisher said:


> Here are few threads that I found about Cedar Bayou and VS in regards to the resent meeting this week in Rock Port.
> 
> I received a phone call last night concerning the meeting. It appears the meeting went excellent and the attention of the right people has been received. The ball is rolling per se at the state level and legal investigations have been started already. All parties involved will be meeting and going to Vinson Slough and Cedar Bayou in the next couple of weeks so that all parties involved can witness first hand the destruction.
> 
> ...


Sounds like good news! I have believed for a while that the names of people and their obstructionist actions need to be publicly revealed. Sound like the fit will hit the shan finally.:biggrin: And a big greenie to you Driftwoodfisher!


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## gater (May 25, 2004)

*CB*


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## driftwoodfisher (Oct 4, 2005)

gater said:


>


Well said gator! cb wow looks like a cat has your ? Its just not me that wants to know who you are and what the heck is your agenda. Stop the smoke screen and come clean and tell us who you are speaking for. Grow some beanies and come clean.


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## gater (May 25, 2004)

*Driftwood*



driftwoodfisher said:


> Well said gator! cb wow looks like a cat has your ? Its just not me that wants to know who you are and what the heck is your agenda. Stop the smoke screen and come clean and tell us who you are speaking for. Grow some beanies and come clean.


Why are you and the others so worried about who I am and whats my agenda. First of all I have no agenda, no vedetta, my last name is not Bass, I am not employed by the State or Federal Goverment and there is no smoke screen. I am a just a concerned fisherman just like the rest of you. The biggest problem is you don't like my opinion and the fact that I don't see the need to spend State or Federal tax dollars to open a natural fish pass based on what I consider questionable information. Like you trying to figure out who I am, I am still trying to figure out the real reasons the SCBI president wants the pass open. IMHO the whoopers, trout fishing in Rockport, and vibrio bacteria has little to do with it, thats the real smoke screen. I can't prove it and don't care to but Blue Crabs and the Bass family seem to be at the top of the list of why someone would spend so much time and effort on this. Honestly I think this started out eleven years ago as something small with different intentions and it has snowballed into what it is today. As road blocks were encountered the anger grew more and more. And with that, the agencies involved have tried and have been sucessful in distancing themselves from the issue.
I honestly think with cooler heads and a different approach the pass may have been opened years ago. This is not an agenda, it is my opinion and from my own observation's of following this for the last eleven years. I am not asking you or anyone else to agree with me all I am tying to convey is that there is always a differnt side to everything and this is no different.

Gater


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## driftwoodfisher (Oct 4, 2005)

Gator (Steve) how is our good friend Tim doing? Just wondering?


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## gater (May 25, 2004)

*DWF*



driftwoodfisher said:


> Gator (Steve) how is our good friend Tim doing? Just wondering?


Doing great, thanks for asking! G


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## driftwoodfisher (Oct 4, 2005)

Gator (steve k) the only reason I am so adamant about this, is that nature did not close cb and vs. If nature did close cb and vs then so be it. We both know that this is not the case. Nature my friend should not be changed. If man closed it up, man should open all of it back up. From you other post on this matter you have attacked people for their positions. If you like my position or not that is not at question now. Who closed CB and VS is at question. In 1979 the oil spill in the gulf caused them to close the bayou and Vinsion Slough. Nature did not close CB and VS and you can not dispute that. Your have said that it has been opened twice and that is not true. Yes they did open up CB. No they did not open VS. You Know that and so do I. You can try to hide our name and you can tell the people why you say what you say (that is your choice). You can not change the truth about VS. It has not been opened since man closed it period. You have chosen to make personal attacks on this site and other sites and that is why people question your motives. This my friend, nature did not do. You want to re-write history (kinda like our peps in office?). Why? It is what it is. People make mistakes ok. Everyone has an idea on what they want. That my friend is not the point. NATURE has been changed. Lets put it back the way it was before mankind changed it and see what happens. That can't be that hard to understand. 

Best Regards


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## gater (May 25, 2004)

*DWF*



driftwoodfisher said:


> Gator (steve k) the only reason I am so adamant about this, is that nature did not close cb and vs. If nature did close cb and vs then so be it. We both know that this is not the case. Nature my friend should not be changed. If man closed it up, man should open all of it back up. From you other post on this matter you have attacked people for their positions. If you like my position or not that is not at question now. Who closed CB and VS is at question. In 1979 the oil spill in the gulf caused them to close the bayou and Vinsion Slough. Nature did not close CB and VS and you can not dispute that. Your have said that it has been opened twice and that is not true. Yes they did open up CB. No they did not open VS. You Know that and so do I. You can try to hide our name and you can tell the people why you say what you say (that is your choice). You can not change the truth about VS. It has not been opened since man closed it period. You have chosen to make personal attacks on this site and other sites and that is why people question your motives. This my friend, nature did not do. You want to re-write history (kinda like our peps in office?). Why? It is what it is. People make mistakes ok. Everyone has an idea on what they want. That my friend is not the point. NATURE has been changed. Lets put it back the way it was before mankind changed it and see what happens. That can't be that hard to understand.
> 
> Best Regards


I am sorry to tell you that nature did close Cedar Bayou so you might want check on that. From what I understand, sand was put in VS to protect the nesting grounds of a endangered bird. I am not for sure but I think the USFWS had something to do with that. I would tend to think they have every right to do so with at the very least permission from the land owners. Cedar Bayou has been open three times since it was closed for the oil spill in 1979, twice by storms in 1980 (Allen) and in 2003 (Claudette) and once by dredging in 1995. So yes, I can dispute that! I don't really care about VS, this topic and discussion is about Cedar Bayou.
VS is nothing without having Cedar Bayou open

You can call them personal attacks I call them addressing out right lies. If you or SCBI wants the pass open thats fine, just tell the public why you really want it open. The people in that area and those that travel to fish that area have the right to know that the real reason's have nothing to do with starving whooping cranes, vibrio, are the mysterious disappearing trout. Thats all I ask, is for the truth...people have the right to know.

Actually I think I understand it all pretty well, it's others that I am not so sure about.

Gater


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## CJ PORTER (Jul 27, 2006)

Gator - thanks for your opinion but just understand that it will not have any impact on the reopening of CB/VS. Why don't you take up golf.


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## Mritter (Jul 7, 2010)

I don't see the harm in opening them both up, as well as subsequent operations to keep them open in the future. My tax dollars have been spent on far worse things in my opinion.


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## Laguna Freak (Nov 15, 2006)

Mritter said:


> I don't see the harm in opening them both up, as well as subsequent operations to keep them open in the future. *My tax dollars have been spent on far worse things in my opinion.*


A-men Brotha!


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## driftwoodfisher (Oct 4, 2005)

Gater, I have been silent for a couple of days now to try to figure out just how you can spew the carp you do. Gater ( Steve Kadlecek and you partner Tim Turner) fish the red fish tour and have fun fishing these bays. So please explain to us the novice fisher people ( I have only fished down there for 35 years) why you are so hell bend and shrimp bound why not open the bayou's up like they were before 1979's oil spill? That just does not compute. I'm an old guy with not that much time left to fish these bays so please help me with this, it is so important to you that the bays are not put back the way nature had it. Thanks for you time. Lets keep an open dialogue if you can.


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## driftwoodfisher (Oct 4, 2005)

We've gotten where we are due in large part to publicity, when YOU get involved people listen! I'm challenging everyone that has an interest in righting this wrong to come out and participate, if you fish the area either commercial or for sport, own a business that relies on the tourist that come to fish, even remotely care then please clear your schedule and come join us. I will be there and will gladly volunteer to take any news crew or politician out on my boat.

Maybe we can have a gathering there at Goose Island after we wrap up?

Get involved!









I've attached some fliers that we need to post in bait shops, boat ramps, local businesses, and anyplace else that will help spread the word. I need volunteers to post what locations they'll cover?

There's nothing better than a personal invite, we all know at least one other friend that has a boat.. Call them up, send an email, let them know what we're doing.


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## gater (May 25, 2004)

*Driftwoodfisher*



driftwoodfisher said:


> Gater, I have been silent for a couple of days now to try to figure out just how you can spew the carp you do. Gater ( Steve Kadlecek and you partner Tim Turner) fish the red fish tour and have fun fishing these bays. So please explain to us the novice fisher people ( I have only fished down there for 35 years) why you are so hell bend and shrimp bound why not open the bayou's up like they were before 1979's oil spill? That just does not compute. I'm an old guy with not that much time left to fish these bays so please help me with this, it is so important to you that the bays are not put back the way nature had it. Thanks for you time. Lets keep an open dialogue if you can.


Spewing carp.......I give you my side of it, you don't like it and you go on a mission to find out who I am and what my agenda is. The way you act and handle yourself you must vice president of SCBI, if not you'll fit in well. Are you a commercial fisherman and hate recreational fishermen like the president does. You might be old but your not very smart. You cannot give me one good reason for opening that pass other than you caught some fish one time when it was open 35 years ago. It is apparent that many State and Federal agencies feel the same way. They have asked for information from SCBI on how they are going to address all these concerns and I really don't think they have the answer. If they did the Judge would not be going for a boat ride. Opening that pass and VS is not going to save your part of the coast and your crazy to think it will. If it were that important to the fishery wouldn't you think the TP&WD would have opened it years ago. After eleven years of failure in getting CB open it seems all the attention is directed on who the a-holes were that filled in VS. I hope you and your cronies catch'em and tell them how bad they are, that I'm sure will get the sand flying! All the other threats and name calling hasn't worked maybe that will work.

By the way, I really hope you feel better knowing who I am like it really makes a difference. Leave the names out of this discussion especially the ones that are not participating. I know thats how SCBI operates but it is uncalled for!









Gater


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## SolarScreenGuy (Aug 15, 2005)

gater said:


> Spewing carp.......I give you my side of it, you don't like it and you go on a mission to find out who I am and what my agenda is. The way you act and handle yourself you must vice president of SCBI, if not you'll fit in well. Are you a commercial fisherman and hate recreational fishermen like the president does. You might be old but your not very smart. You cannot give me one good reason for opening that pass other than you caught some fish one time when it was open 35 years ago. It is apparent that many State and Federal agencies feel the same way. They have asked for information from SCBI on how they are going to address all these concerns and I really don't think they have the answer. If they did the Judge would not be going for a boat ride. Opening that pass and VS is not going to save your part of the coast and your crazy to think it will. If it were that important to the fishery wouldn't you think the TP&WD would have opened it years ago. After eleven years of failure in getting CB open it seems all the attention is directed on who the a-holes were that filled in VS. I hope you and your cronies catch'em and tell them how bad they are, that I'm sure will get the sand flying! All the other threats and name calling hasn't worked maybe that will work.
> 
> By the way, I really hope you feel better knowing who I am like it really makes a difference. Leave the names out of this discussion especially the ones that are not participating. I know thats how SCBI operates but it is uncalled for!
> 
> ...


gater is not allowed to have the last word on this thread. This thread will end with the truth and not the rantings of a lunatic.


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## rwl1948 (Jun 27, 2009)

*Save Cedar Bayou Flotilla*​ *Get involved!*​ *Save Cedar Bayou Flotilla*​ *Get involved!*​ Judge Mills is hosting a boat ride for the new chief of staff to Congressman Ron Paul's office to Cedar Bayou on October 8, at 9AM from Goose Island State Park.
We plan to line the channel leading in to Cedar Bayou with boats and signs letting politicians and media know just how important it is to us that we get their support in restoring this vital pass.
We've gotten where we are due in large part to publicity, when YOU get involved people listen! I'm challenging everyone that has an interest in righting this wrong to come out and participate! If you fish the area either as a commercial fisherman or for sport, if you own a business that relies on the tourist that come to fish, or even remotely care then please clear your schedule and come join us.
Launch from anywhere, but be in the channel before 9:AM on Friday October 8th 2010 Bring signs or flags showing your support and bring your cameras to get both still and video to record this event!

If you have any questions visit www.texasflats.net or email [email protected]


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## gater (May 25, 2004)

*Salty/Plugger*



Old Salty said:


> gater is not allowed to have the last word on this thread. This thread will end with the truth and not the rantings of a lunatic.


You don't know the truth......Talk of this is fixing to happen and that is fixing to happen gets old. You think a flotilla with a County Judge and someone that works for a congressman is going to overturn things. Instead of threating charges and all the other BS why don't you talk the commercial fishing lady thats hates all of us recreational fishermen into actually trying to address all the concerns on why the permit was denied. 
The USFS and the Corp have a pretty good list to start with! Salty, name calling does not bother me, I expected it from your little group.

Gater


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## Shellbank Island (Dec 26, 2009)

Driftwoodfisher, I have been reading your posts on this thread with interest. You have a primary goal and a secondary goal it seems. If you are not careful, you will confuse us with which one is the primary one. If you are going to out someone's name, then you should be the upstanding citizen you want us to think you are by stating your own as well. It is possible to get your message across without putting so much importance on Mr. Gater. I suggest you figure out how to do that if you want to be taken seriously as Cedar Bayou and Vinson's Slough deserve.


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## SolarScreenGuy (Aug 15, 2005)

gater said:


> You don't know the truth......Talk of this is fixing to happen and that is fixing to happen gets old. You think a flotilla with a County Judge and someone that works for a congressman is going to overturn things. Instead of threating charges and all the other BS why don't you talk the commercial fishing lady thats hates all of us recreational fishermen into actually trying to address all the concerns on why the permit was denied.
> The USFS and the Corp have a pretty good list to start with! Salty, name calling does not bother me, I expected it from your little group.
> 
> Gater


I know far more about the truth than you do, young man. And there is far more to what is now happening regarding this issue than what you mention in your post. The info is available as I have told you many times before. Your rantings against the reopening of these historic passes are less than juvenile. I am now fully confident that the truth is going to be revealed for all eyes to see. Names are going to be named, damages detailed, and people are going to be held accountable. You see, there is a dedicated group of people and organizations who will never let this issue die. Never. And I am but one of many in a very large army. Go spew your disinformation elsewhere.
Old Salty-still pluggin'


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## Tight Knot (Sep 8, 2004)

Shellbank Island said:


> Driftwoodfisher, I have been reading your posts on this thread with interest. You have a primary goal and a secondary goal it seems. If you are not careful, you will confuse us with which one is the primary one. If you are going to out someone's name, then you should be the upstanding citizen you want us to think you are by stating your own as well. It is possible to get your message across without putting so much importance on Mr. Gater. I suggest you figure out how to do that if you want to be taken seriously as Cedar Bayou and Vinson's Slough deserve.


I agree with this statement. Gaters opinion on this issue is of no relevance. It is starting to sound like something may happen soon.
Keeping this matter open to the public is very important. The whole coastal bend will benefit in the long run.

Tight Knot


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## POCKID (Jul 26, 2004)

Don't let the Naysayer slow you down Driftwoodfisher. 

We need more people like you and Old Salty who understand the resource.


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## Specks&Spots (Aug 26, 2007)

Gater, What are your arguments against opening the passes? What negative impacts do you think opening these passes will cause? I am trying to understand why you have such a strong opposition to something that might enhance the fishery?


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## Tailshot (Jan 23, 2010)

I just scanned through these posts again and couldn't find where Gater said he wanted the passes kept closed.

Anyway, the passes are the least of our troubles. We need to have a more natural approach to our fisheries and other aquatic resources. We could start with not allowing outboard engines in the bays and estuaries. Kayak and wade only. If you ain't tough enough to get at 'em, go buy some fillets at Fiesta.


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## Specks&Spots (Aug 26, 2007)

Tailshot said:


> We need to have a more natural approach to our fisheries and other aquatic resources. We could start with not allowing outboard engines in the bays and estuaries. Kayak and wade only. If you ain't tough enough to get at 'em, go buy some fillets at Fiesta.


Are you serious?


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## Tailshot (Jan 23, 2010)

Yes...there is too much 2-stroke oil in our bays! Man up and paddle in, dude.


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## driftwoodfisher (Oct 4, 2005)

Shellbank Island said:


> Driftwoodfisher, I have been reading your posts on this thread with interest. You have a primary goal and a secondary goal it seems. If you are not careful, you will confuse us with which one is the primary one. If you are going to out someone's name, then you should be the upstanding citizen you want us to think you are by stating your own as well. It is possible to get your message across without putting so much importance on Mr. Gater. I suggest you figure out how to do that if you want to be taken seriously as Cedar Bayou and Vinson's Slough deserve.


Hello back at ya. You my friend have not been in touch with this topic. If you had been reading all the threads about Cedar Bayou and Vincent Slough then you would not have made that statement. I have absolutely no other reason to open up Cedar Bayou and Vincent Slough. As I have held my position on point. I will remind you. My position is that Man closed up Vincent Slough not nature. Man needs to put the slough back the way it was before it was closed. That is pretty easy to understand. Yes I do wonder why some people don't want to undo the damage that nature did not do. Lets review, man closed Vincent Slough. Man needs to open it back up. Got it?


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## TrueblueTexican (Aug 29, 2005)

*SO*

Who is inviting National News media, KHOU, Victoria Advocate ETC to the Boat Party? Ron Pauls office is a nice coup but not enough to move sand.

Seems public opinion and National news worked pretty good for *Plaquemines Parish* lately.

I sure would like to see this pass REALLY opened up right --


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## driftwoodfisher (Oct 4, 2005)

Shellbank Island said:


> Driftwoodfisher, I have been reading your posts on this thread with interest. You have a primary goal and a secondary goal it seems. If you are not careful, you will confuse us with which one is the primary one. If you are going to out someone's name, then you should be the upstanding citizen you want us to think you are by stating your own as well. It is possible to get your message across without putting so much importance on Mr. Gater. I suggest you figure out how to do that if you want to be taken seriously as Cedar Bayou and Vinson's Slough deserve.


This is just a soft follow up. If you have not seen this thread. Enjoy! http://2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/showthread.php?t=295363


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## Shellbank Island (Dec 26, 2009)

driftwoodfisher said:


> Hello back at ya. You my friend have not been in touch with this topic. If you had been reading all the threads about Cedar Bayou and Vincent Slough then you would not have made that statement. I have absolutely no other reason to open up Cedar Bayou and Vincent Slough. As I have held my position on point. I will remind you. My position is that Man closed up Vincent Slough not nature. Man needs to put the slough back the way it was before it was closed. That is pretty easy to understand. Yes I do wonder why some people don't want to undo the damage that nature did not do. Lets review, man closed Vincent Slough. Man needs to open it back up. Got it?


Oh I realize one of your priorities is CB and VS, but was noticing that out of your last 25 posts, you mention Gater in at least 15 of them. Fifteen! And sometimes more than once. I have been reading about this topic for years on another site as well as 2cool and am aware of Gater's stance. However, you have me and the other's wondering why is it so very important for you to know Gater's point of view? You should be careful or someone will think you are obsessed with him. That is what I meant about confusing us in a public forum about what is really the most important point you want to get across. Got it?


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## driftwoodfisher (Oct 4, 2005)

Shellbank Island said:


> Oh I realize one of your priorities is CB and VS, but was noticing that out of your last 25 posts, you mention Gater in at least 15 of them. Fifteen! And sometimes more than once. I have been reading about this topic for years on another site as well as 2cool and am aware of Gater's stance. However, you have me and the other's wondering why is it so very important for you to know Gater's point of view? You should be careful or someone will think you are obsessed with him. That is what I meant about confusing us in a public forum about what is really the most important point you want to get across. Got it?


No one else has questioned my motive except you and Gay. Please answer this one question (its not that hard). Who closed VS? One more time, did nature close VS? There is no reason to attack me until you answer that simple question. One more time who closed VS? Got it? Who closed VS? If you can find the answer to that question you will have to agree who needs to open it up. Have a great weekend. Just answer the question!


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## Shellbank Island (Dec 26, 2009)

driftwoodfisher said:


> No one else has questioned my motive except you and Gay. Please answer this one question (its not that hard). Who closed VS? One more time, did nature close VS? There is no reason to attack me until you answer that simple question. One more time who closed VS? Got it? Who closed VS? If you can find the answer to that question you will have to agree who needs to open it up. Have a great weekend. Just answer the question!


Whoa there little buddy! I think opening CB AND VS is a good idea. I may even join the flotilla on the 8th. I'm just saying that you need to take a deep breath and let it all go. There. I'm not attacking you, just pointing out the obvious because I think you need to look at what you are saying in a PUBLIC forum and maybe question how effective you really are in your efforts. So, if I don't answer your question are you going to hound me in your next 15 posts? Take a deep breath, in, now let it out.


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## driftwoodfisher (Oct 4, 2005)

Shellbank Island said:


> Whoa there little buddy! I think opening CB AND VS is a good idea. I may even join the flotilla on the 8th. I'm just saying that you need to take a deep breath and let it all go. There. I'm not attacking you, just pointing out the obvious because I think you need to look at what you are saying in a PUBLIC forum and maybe question how effective you really are in your efforts. So, if I don't answer your question are you going to hound me in your next 15 posts? Take a deep breath, in, now let it out.


Hey little buddy. You have not answered my question yet.. Deep breaths will not solve this problem. Sticking you head in the sand will not make me go away. This is a real simple question and you have chosen to not answer it. The more you respond without replying to my question is only raising more questions about your creditability. Hello little buddy who closed up VS? Hello? Little buddy? I bet you are not as little as you might want me to believe. Just saying?


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## driftwoodfisher (Oct 4, 2005)

Shellbank Island said:


> Whoa there little buddy! I think opening CB AND VS is a good idea. I may even join the flotilla on the 8th. I'm just saying that you need to take a deep breath and let it all go. There. I'm not attacking you, just pointing out the obvious because I think you need to look at what you are saying in a PUBLIC forum and maybe question how effective you really are in your efforts. So, if I don't answer your question are you going to hound me in your next 15 posts? Take a deep breath, in, now let it out.


I just noticed your avatar (I used to have a dead horse) no I am wrong 
*Shellbank Island*







said 
I had a horse named Bad Luck... ?That could probably be so true. Just saying. What is the name of your horse now? Horse poop? Man that is crazy. Little Buddy. Just saying.............


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## Sow Trout (Jun 28, 2004)

It is no secret who closed VS. My oldtimers keeps me from posting it right now, but so what. They have been named repeatedly. So now what are you going to do about it?


driftwoodfisher said:


> Hey little buddy. You have not answered my question yet.. Deep breaths will not solve this problem. Sticking you head in the sand will not make me go away. This is a real simple question and you have chosen to not answer it. The more you respond without replying to my question is only raising more questions about your creditability. Hello little buddy who closed up VS? Hello? Little buddy? I bet you are not as little as you might want me to believe. Just saying?


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## gater (May 25, 2004)

*Specks and Spots*



Specks&Spots said:


> Gater, What are your arguments against opening the passes? What negative impacts do you think opening these passes will cause? I am trying to understand why you have such a strong opposition to something that might enhance the fishery?


If I thought opening Cedar Bayou would benifit the fishery I would be all for it. However it is of my opinion that is not the case. For one, the cost to open it and maintain it is going to be very very expensive. It will not stay open without yearly maintenance. It is sad, it's a pretty place to go and fish but it does just not make sense. The State is in the process of closing Rollover pass because of the cost to maintain it. Why would the close one pass for that reason and open another that is going to be the same headache. The money could be well spent anywhere else along the cost on numerous projects. Believe me I am all for the fishery, I am a life member of CCA and served as an State Board member and as an Executive State board member. This however does not make sense to me even though I know CCA supports it. After following this for the last eleven years it has become somewhat of an entertaining circus. The President of SCBI and the RFA want you yom believe that the Whooping Cranes are starving, vibrio bacteria is killing wade fishermen faster than they can get body bags, and the Trout fishing in Rockport sucks all because Cedar Bayou is closed in. I really don't think this is the case and I would suspect the TP&WD and the USFWS feel the same otherwise it would have been opened years ago. I strongly feel the real reason for all the hate is that SCBI and the RFA are angry because nothing has happened in the last eleven years and now they go after the land ownwer, the Bass family. The SCBI President has family that are commercial crabbers and close ties to the commercial Flounder gigging in that area. That IMHO is the real reason behind all of this. She has already publicly stated she don't like recreational fishermen and pretty much hopes we all go away. That very reason there floors me why the RFA would back them.

Specks and Spots, to give you and example of just how this group operates, Driftwoodfisher spent the better part of a week just trying to find out who I was and what my agenda was. He went so far as publishing my name here. No big deal, but if I really wanted my real name out there it would be in my screen name instead of Gater. But the real pisser is posting my former tournament partners full name on here. He does not post here and I really don't think he is a member of 2cool so would you do that.

Specks and Spots you asked and I gave you an honest answer and thanks for asking. Unlike some others I respect your right to disagree.

Gater


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## fishsmart (Dec 5, 2004)

All the people that have fished Cedar Bayou mouth into the Gulf and Vinson's Slough in the past would like to do so again. Let's stop all the BS and get them open.

As usual the taxpayers get screwed for the special interests. It's time to vote in less than 40 days. Turn up the heat.

Charles


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## dazelr (May 6, 2010)

*read carefully*



driftwoodfisher said:


> Hey little buddy. You have not answered my question yet.. Deep breaths will not solve this problem. Sticking you head in the sand will not make me go away. This is a real simple question and you have chosen to not answer it. The more you respond without replying to my question is only raising more questions about your creditability. Hello little buddy who closed up VS? Hello? Little buddy? I bet you are not as little as you might want me to believe. Just saying?


you are completely missing the point that shell bank is making. I've been following this topic over the past couple weeks(just on 2cool), and it does seem like you have some personal vendetta against gater. your vendetta overshadows the point you are trying to get across. in fact i am not to sure if you are trying to educate or pick a school yard fight. gater has stated many times in his posts that his stance is an OPINION. for someone like me who is not real educated on the subject different opinions help shape my own point of view. that is what forums are all about. blasting someone's name on a forum without permission is not cool, and makes you look very adolescent. it also makes outsiders dismiss your points, which seem pretty valid by the way. if your goal is to educate than leave all the other b.s. out. its obvious that you are not gonna change gaters mind so stop wasting your time, for the sake of all!


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## jim smarr (May 21, 2004)

*gator your friend on TFF took this post down over there so deal with it here!*

little gater is now throwing up a smoke screen again for his friends. Don't pay attention to him. He is from Tikki Island where all his fellow CCA board members live. He has to spew venom as the Bass family has long funded CCA. The Bass family was either Chairman or Chairman Emeritus of TPWD and the " owner" of the land to the south of Vinson's Slough. They closed North Pass near Mud Island with junk cars then Vinson's Slough with dredge spoils from Cedar Bayou in violation of the clean water act and two other acts. They have a long history of doing what they want to on St. Joseph Island. Those days are over. Funny thing due to funding from the Bass family CCA awarded Perry R. Bass an award of Conservationist of the Decade. What a fine man to honor given his and his son Lee Marshall Bass's destruction of the 78,000 acres of the St Charles Bays wet land system which was at one time the largest wetlands system in the USA.

little gater has seemed to always drink way too much and then attack Lynn and the RFA. Soon little gater will find out his smoke screen has been all for nothing when the truth comes out. He has been shameless with his misleading people about the well-known truths. The damages to the St. Charles Bays wetlands system has been in the range of 60 plus billion dollars.
The Bass family tried to claim land north of Vinson's Slough as their own. The Texas General Land Office has ruled the land was not part of St. Joseph Island and did not belong to the Bass family. For 12 long years the Bass family has worked very hard to kill the restoration of the area. We have come to the conclusion that "Criminal Charges" for the damages just might get their attention. little gater some of us want to do whatever is necessary to restore our fisheries to their former glory in the Coastal Bend. Your little attacks are nothing compared to what Lynn and I have had directed at us from the Bass bunch and their puppets.
little gater- the Rockport meeting was full of folks from the Aransas County Republican party wearing bling bling worth more than you make in a year. LOL No white boots in the room. Many were CCA members that write big checks. I have known many of them for years. RFA spoke and was to the point. CCA avoided the meeting. That did not go un noticed with the bling bling crowd. The RFA offered to hold fundraisers to support the criminal charges aimed at the Bass family. That was very well received. 
Your attitude little gator is exactly what was wrong with CCA when I left many years ago. If the general membership knew how you and others stir the pot on these critical issues they would happily refund your membership. Many of us once funded CCA and were proud to do so. Too many of us the CCA simply lost their way and do not represent the fishing world as they once did.
Lynn and I have devoted 10 to 12 years to see these passes restored against all the spin the Bass family and their puppets could muster. We will win. Criminal is just plain wrong when the environment is concerned no matter how many billions they have or puppets at different levels. I have zero fear factor as I do not have anything to lose. I have as Lynn has made the restoration of the passes our life's work. little gater you will never understand dedication to a cause that helps everyone. We do.


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## jim smarr (May 21, 2004)

*Gator you started this so here is another post*

County Judge Bert Mills needs support with a strong showing of recreational boats for this event. Lynn has worked for 12 years against some very strong adversaries. The Judge is now on board. He is running into the same idiots trying to block his efforts. 
In a recent meeting of the Aransas County Republican Club the Texas RFA called for criminal charges to be filed for violations of the Clean Water Act and the Endangered Species act dealing with the illegal closure of Vinson's Slough. The applause was thunderous at the Aransas County Republican Club meeting with 200 or so people in attendance. We all know who committed the crime. Federal funding was used to destroy wetlands on two instances. There is a zero net loss to wetlands statement in all Federally funded projects. The lakes on St. Joseph Island were dry Salt flats destroying all the pristine sea grass beds. Somewhere north of 23,000 acres of nursery wetlands is gone. Local and State elected officials were present to hear the response. 
Seems now the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service along with Texas A&M are trying to hold a symposium to explain how important habitat is to the Whooping Cranes. What a joke as the USFW Service has worked hard to block the restoration. We should all show up for that event and send them a strong message.

We at RFA Texas believe Federal or State Criminal charges or both should be filed to crush the opposition. We are sick and tired of seeing our area destroyed due to a criminal act not once but twice. I pray when this is over and damages are handed down Aransas County has a few new assets like Saint Joseph Island County Park and some downtown property as restitution along with 40,000,000.00 in further damages to be set up in a fund to compensate Aransas County citizenry and the people of the State of Texas for the ongoing damages. All the fresh water inflows will seriously damage the system/sea grass even more due to recent heavy rains.
The time has come to play hard ball.
FYI- For those in Aransas County one County Commissioner is supporting the criminals. He should be railroaded out of office next election or recalled. email me and I will tell you which one. [email protected] . He is the only Democrat of the bunch.


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## driftwoodfisher (Oct 4, 2005)

Dude. The only reason I asked Gator why he had the position he had was because he did not make sense. He failed to respond to my questions and followed up with vile responses. With your thread you are doing the same thing that you are accusing me of. This whole thing could have been closed if your friend G would have just answered the question, WHAT IS YOUR AGENDA. Do you remember that? I asked a question and he (Gator ) would not answer that. His remarks are so off base with the best interests for our bays. That is why I have been adamant about this. This is not that hard to understand. One more time Sir, Please understand this, Who blocked and stopped the water flow across Venison Slough. This is my only reason for taking you guys on. Your reason to not understand that is only baffling. Only a reasonable person would second guess anything else. Do you have a better solution to improve the the water flow? If we disagree with this than so be it. In closing who closed VS? Man did and you and your friends can dispute that. Lets all get on board and open that slough back and shut me up. That's all I want. Put it back the way it was and lets see happens.


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## jim smarr (May 21, 2004)

gater said:


> If I thought opening Cedar Bayou would benifit the fishery I would be all for it. However it is of my opinion that is not the case. For one, the cost to open it and maintain it is going to be very very expensive. It will not stay open without yearly maintenance. It is sad, it's a pretty place to go and fish but it does just not make sense. The State is in the process of closing Rollover pass because of the cost to maintain it. Why would the close one pass for that reason and open another that is going to be the same headache. The money could be well spent anywhere else along the cost on numerous projects. Believe me I am all for the fishery, I am a life member of CCA and served as an State Board member and as an Executive State board member. This however does not make sense to me even though I know CCA supports it. After following this for the last eleven years it has become somewhat of an entertaining circus. The President of SCBI and the RFA want you yom believe that the Whooping Cranes are starving, vibrio bacteria is killing wade fishermen faster than they can get body bags, and the Trout fishing in Rockport sucks all because Cedar Bayou is closed in. I really don't think this is the case and I would suspect the TP&WD and the USFWS feel the same otherwise it would have been opened years ago. I strongly feel the real reason for all the hate is that SCBI and the RFA are angry because nothing has happened in the last eleven years and now they go after the land ownwer, the Bass family. The SCBI President has family that are commercial crabbers and close ties to the commercial Flounder gigging in that area. That IMHO is the real reason behind all of this. She has already publicly stated she don't like recreational fishermen and pretty much hopes we all go away. That very reason there floors me why the RFA would back them.
> 
> Specks and Spots, to give you and example of just how this group operates, Driftwoodfisher spent the better part of a week just trying to find out who I was and what my agenda was. He went so far as publishing my name here. No big deal, but if I really wanted my real name out there it would be in my screen name instead of Gater. But the real pisser is posting my former tournament partners full name on here. He does not post here and I really don't think he is a member of 2cool so would you do that.
> 
> ...


little gater Lynn Edwards husband worked for Central Power and Light most of his life. FYI He retired due to an injury and did some commercial floundering. They had no crabbing business. When the passes were open he got limits of flounder. He stopped commercial floundering due to the closures and few flounder. Bobby spent all night trying to get me four flounder for Christmas Dinner Six years ago. Those were the last fish he caught. They sure were good though. 

As far as Lynn being in the crab business your are being untruthful.

As for as the RFA supporting the efforts to open the passes I will continue to support SCBI and Judge Mills. CCA should ditch the Basses and help.
Gater your hatred and arrogance as a CCA Board member is the reason many good person's left CCA.


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## Snap Draggin (Nov 11, 2007)

jim smarr said:


> Gater your hatred and arrogance as a CCA Board member is the reason many good person's left CCA.[/COLOR]


Can I get an AMEN from the congregation???!!!


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## 6.5 shooter dude (Jan 8, 2008)

Jim, Thanks for all that you do and Keep up the fight.


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## jim smarr (May 21, 2004)

Thanks Jay have some green.


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## driftwoodfisher (Oct 4, 2005)

Jim, Thanks for all that you do and Keep up the fight. And buy the way I never have liked gators (they make me feel creepy). Just saying!


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## DANO (May 23, 2005)

jim smarr said:


> Gater your hatred and arrogance as a CCA Board member is the reason many good person's left CCA.





Snap Draggin said:


> Can I get an AMEN from the congregation???!!!


AMEN



Jay Baker said:


> Jim, Thanks for all that you do and Keep up the fight.


X2 !!


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## driftwoodfisher (Oct 4, 2005)

AMEN from the congregation. Gods speed!


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## gater (May 25, 2004)

*Smarr*



jim smarr said:


> little gater is now throwing up a smoke screen again for his friends. Don't pay attention to him. He is from Tikki Island where all his fellow CCA board members live. He has to spew venom as the Bass family has long funded CCA. The Bass family was either Chairman or Chairman Emeritus of TPWD and the " owner" of the land to the south of Vinson's Slough. They closed North Pass near Mud Island with junk cars then Vinson's Slough with dredge spoils from Cedar Bayou in violation of the clean water act and two other acts. They have a long history of doing what they want to on St. Joseph Island. Those days are over. Funny thing due to funding from the Bass family CCA awarded Perry R. Bass an award of Conservationist of the Decade. What a fine man to honor given his and his son Lee Marshall Bass's destruction of the 78,000 acres of the St Charles Bays wet land system which was at one time the largest wetlands system in the USA.
> 
> little gater has seemed to always drink way too much and then attack Lynn and the RFA. Soon little gater will find out his smoke screen has been all for nothing when the truth comes out. He has been shameless with his misleading people about the well-known truths. The damages to the St. Charles Bays wetlands system has been in the range of 60 plus billion dollars.
> The Bass family tried to claim land north of Vinson


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## gater (May 25, 2004)

*Smarr*

 *The damages to the St. Charles Bays wetlands system has been in the range of 60 plus billion dollars.*

That statement right there proves you are full of *****. Just where in the he!! did you come that figure. Your last post is a classic, you pretty much out did yourself. Does not deserve much more response than that and I have a Bass family reunion to attend tonight!:biggrin:


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## jim smarr (May 21, 2004)

*little gater*

Sea Grass is worth 20,000.00 an acre a year to start the eco system. 23,000 acres times 25 years of ongoing damage is a start. The other economic damages have been looked at as to the value of lost fisheries realted $$$. Since you are on the dark side of this issue I am not going to tell you much more. The damages are 10 fold the Exxon Valdez. The 350,000.00 spent on the project bought alot of rope. We just need to hang these folks out to dry.


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## gater (May 25, 2004)

*Funny*



jim smarr said:


> Sea Grass is worth 20,000.00 an acre a year to start the eco system. 23,000 acres times 25 years of ongoing damage is a start. The other economic damages have been looked at as to the value of lost fisheries realted $$$. Since you are on the dark side of this issue I am not going to tell you much more. The damages are 10 fold the Exxon Valdez. The 350,000.00 spent on the project bought alot of rope. We just need to hang these folks out to dry.


*We just need to hang these folks out to dry.*
Yea you keep saying that over and over, and the more you keep saying it the less people believe it.

That right there is some funny stuff Jim! Are you going to deduct for the times the pass was open and for the years the area went through a serious drought.

60 billion, thats lots of grass and don't forget you can't count Trout in there because they were pilaged by man not Cedar Bayou!

Gater


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## jim smarr (May 21, 2004)

*little gater*

You are on the wrong side of this issue. You are very uninformed. I am not very worried about what you think about me ,Texas Recrational Fishing Alliance or our problems in the Coastal Bend.

People like you make us even more determined to assist with the restoration of both passes at all cost. You are not making any friends taking the position that it is ok to destroy the Coastal Bend.

Some of us down here remember what Rockport looked like in the 1980's.
Nice clean clear water with great fishing. Not so now. Rockport is no longer the destination it once was for the recreational fishing crowd.

Selling the experience via the Chamber of Commerce is getting old with people not catching fish. Hard core fishermen have chosen to go elsewhere.

Simply put we need the passes restored now.


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## the wood man (Sep 14, 2006)

jim smarr said:


> little gater is now throwing up a smoke screen again for his friends. Don't pay attention to him. He is from Tikki Island where all his fellow CCA board members live. He has to spew venom as the Bass family has long funded CCA. The Bass family was either Chairman or Chairman Emeritus of TPWD and the " owner" of the land to the south of Vinson's Slough. They closed North Pass near Mud Island with junk cars then Vinson's Slough with dredge spoils from Cedar Bayou in violation of the clean water act and two other acts. They have a long history of doing what they want to on St. Joseph Island. Those days are over. Funny thing due to funding from the Bass family CCA awarded Perry R. Bass an award of Conservationist of the Decade. What a fine man to honor given his and his son Lee Marshall Bass's destruction of the 78,000 acres of the St Charles Bays wet land system which was at one time the largest wetlands system in the USA.
> 
> little gater has seemed to always drink way too much and then attack Lynn and the RFA. Soon little gater will find out his smoke screen has been all for nothing when the truth comes out. He has been shameless with his misleading people about the well-known truths. The damages to the St. Charles Bays wetlands system has been in the range of 60 plus billion dollars.
> The Bass family tried to claim land north of Vinson


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## driftwoodfisher (Oct 4, 2005)

gater said:


> *The damages to the St. Charles Bays wetlands system has been in the range of 60 plus billion dollars.*
> 
> That statement right there proves you are full of *****. Just where in the he!! did you come that figure. Your last post is a classic, you pretty much out did yourself. Does not deserve much more response than that and I have a Bass family reunion to attend tonight!:biggrin:


I really don't know about that statement. Can you please answer my question who closed VS. Talking about poo. Dude you bring this all on your self, and then you complain when someone responds. Where is your" little buddy" person. GATOR WHO CLOSED VS ? Can you please stop the suspense. Partner I do not have an axe to grind with you. You need to be honest and up front. I have nothing to gain from this. My friend, can you just tell us the truth? Who the heck closed up VS.( I asked you this question two months ago and you have not answered). The way you have responded to all of the questions, is the reason I wanted to know who you are. Sadly enough I still can't understand you. You my friend have tried to smear this issue with your "not truths". That is just a way to make some people lose focus. The good people that love our bays will not roll over like you want them to. This a different time, good people *stand up* for what is right. God gave us the will... and you my friend can not ever change that.. Gods speed. Long live Cedar Bayou and Venison Slough. There are lots of people that want the BS to stop. I understand that. When the truth comes out, that is when the people will let it rest.


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## gater (May 25, 2004)

jim smarr said:


> You are on the wrong side of this issue. You are very uninformed. I am not very worried about what you think about me ,Texas Recrational Fishing Alliance or our problems in the Coastal Bend.
> 
> People like you make us even more determined to assist with the restoration of both passes at all cost. You are not making any friends taking the position that it is ok to destroy the Coastal Bend.
> 
> ...


Jim I m sorry, I do not give my opinion to make friends. And if it means anything I have plenty of friends in Rockport and all up and down the coast. And believe it or not some of my friends may actually disagree but were still friends. Do you really think you can compare Rockport from 1980 to 2010. It will never be the same, much has changed in 30 years and yep your right it is not the destination it once was because it has been overfished and yes they are going elsewhere to rape it (Baffin) just like they did in Rockport. Jim you can blow smoke all day long and would not know the truth if it bit you in the *****. Your BS can only go so far. If you and your cronies would have handled this differently 12 years ago you might have a different outcome. If you and Lynn address the COE, TP&WD, USFWS ect.... like you comment on here it don't take much to see why you have not moved forward with this. He!! they built the Panama Canal in less than 12 years! LOL

Gater


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## driftwoodfisher (Oct 4, 2005)

Gator your last response to this most important issue is.... plain silly. Go to bed and have a good night.


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## jim smarr (May 21, 2004)

*gater*

Gater- you are in deep water here as you do not know what I know about the passes. You never will.

It is no secret what happened and who caused the damage. The Bass family has fought us at every turn once we wanted Vinson's Slough restored. This all started out very cordial. The Basses changed that. Very few people in Rockport would give any of them the time of day.

Perry once said if we kept up the isssue of restoring Vinson's Slough he would put all the land they own in downtown Rockport in a trust for the grandkids so Rockport could deal with them many years down the road. Another words let downtown Rockport rot. He has done nothing for Rockport nor has his son. The buildings they own do not even have working bathrooms near the harbor downtown. The toilets are draining on the ground. They are fine people. We are tired of their poo running all over downtown Rockport.

Now maybe you understand why people in Rockport could care less about them. They only pay 20,000.00 or so a yeary taxes on the San Jose Island property. That equals 4 residential homes in Harbor Oaks. They are not very well liked.

The only way to restore the passes is to make the issue larger than the Bass family. We believe we have now done that. The Bass family could have avoided all this by simply allowing the passes to be restored. They wanted the 800 or so acres between Vinson's Slough and Cedar Bayou. Thank the Lord Jerry Patterson says no that land belongs to all Texans.

Gater it was about a land grab.


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## jim smarr (May 21, 2004)

This thread needs to get back to the public show of support of our County Judge Bert Mills and his effort to restore the passes. Please show up for the floatillia.


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## SolarScreenGuy (Aug 15, 2005)

Snap Draggin said:


> Can I get an AMEN from the congregation???!!!


Tell them Reverend! Tell them! Amaayan!


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## Snap Draggin (Nov 11, 2007)

Gater, the bottom line is that you are a CCA whore. You have not only drank the Kool Aid, you absolutely love it. There is no amount of critical proof substantial enough to sway an idiot like yourself from the grasp of CCA. No matter how detrimental they are you, and the feeble minded morons like yourself will defend them.

Gater, to put it plain and simple, you are a loser. It's a sad set of circumstances when a grown man has to defend an organization hell bent on destroying the very beliefs this great country was founded on.

Gater you can , and probably will say that I am a RFA whore. I'm sorry to tell you that you that couldn't be farther from the truth. You see gater, you and I differ greatly. I can, and will assure you that if RFA ever turned their back on me like CCA has done I would drop them like a hot potato. That is called staying true to your beliefs. You on the other hand will sway and bend like marsh grass in variable winds. You are a feeble minded moron, a follower, likened to lambs led to slaughter.

I realize I am probably typing this for my own good rather than yours. Regardless, I feel a lot better now. You are a dying breed moron. The day your kind becomes extinct is a day I look forward to. The less fence riding, feeble minded morons we have the better. Then we can great this great country back on track. Right now we have idiots like yourself trying to derail it.


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## SolarScreenGuy (Aug 15, 2005)

Snap Draggin said:


> Gater, the bottom line is that you are a CCA whore. You have not only drank the Kool Aid, you absolutely love it. There is no amount of critical proof substantial enough to sway an idiot like yourself from the grasp of CCA. No matter how detrimental they are you, and the feeble minded morons like yourself will defend them.
> 
> Gater, to put it plain and simple, you are a loser. It's a sad set of circumstances when a grown man has to defend an organization hell bent on destroying the very beliefs this great country was founded on.
> 
> ...


I think I see a gater crawlin' back into the marsh mud with his tail tucked like a dawg!


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## gater (May 25, 2004)

*Snappy*



Snap Draggin said:


> Gater, the bottom line is that you are a CCA whore. You have not only drank the Kool Aid, you absolutely love it. There is no amount of critical proof substantial enough to sway an idiot like yourself from the grasp of CCA. No matter how detrimental they are you, and the feeble minded morons like yourself will defend them.
> 
> Gater, to put it plain and simple, you are a loser. It's a sad set of circumstances when a grown man has to defend an organization hell bent on destroying the very beliefs this great country was founded on.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the kind words....I am touched.

It's typical of how the RFA operates. CCA was not part of this thread but you and your friends bring it into the thread because just like anything else that is talked about on this board, if you don't agree with your petty little minded group your a moron, drunk, idiot ect...... and it's all CCA's fault. I really think people are begining to see right through all the BS that comes from your clan.

Again, thanks for the support, you just scored some more points for the RFA and SCBI.

Gater aka Tiki drunk, moron, idiot..........


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## jim smarr (May 21, 2004)

We really need to focus on supporting Texas General Land Office Commissioner Jerry Patterson, Aransas County Judge Bert Mills, State Representative Todd Hunter, Commissioners Court and SCBI- Lynn Edwards in their efforts to restore the passes by getting on board with the flotilla. The truth is out and the facts are black and white no gray. With Vinson's Slough restored Cedar Bayou will function properly without major maintenance. Vinson's Slough is the key as the hydrology driving the system was always Vinson's Slough not Cedar Bayou historically. The engineering studies back up this statement. 
The flotilla is a great way to show support. 

Jim Smarr
[email protected]


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## Snap Draggin (Nov 11, 2007)

gater[/SIZE said:


> ;3023582]If I thought opening Cedar Bayou would benifit the fishery I would be all for it. However it is of my opinion that is not the case. For one, the cost to open it and maintain it is going to be very very expensive. It will not stay open without yearly maintenance. It is sad, it's a pretty place to go and fish but it does just not make sense. The State is in the process of closing Rollover pass because of the cost to maintain it. Why would the close one pass for that reason and open another that is going to be the same headache. The money could be well spent anywhere else along the cost on numerous projects. Believe me I am all for the fishery, I am a life member of CCA and served as an State Board member and as an Executive State board member. This however does not make sense to me even though I know CCA supports it. After following this for the last eleven years it has become somewhat of an entertaining circus. The President of SCBI and the RFA want you yom believe that the Whooping Cranes are starving, vibrio bacteria is killing wade fishermen faster than they can get body bags, and the Trout fishing in Rockport sucks all because Cedar Bayou is closed in. I really don't think this is the case and I would suspect the TP&WD and the USFWS feel the same otherwise it would have been opened years ago. I strongly feel the real reason for all the hate is that SCBI and the RFA are angry because nothing has happened in the last eleven years and now they go after the land ownwer, the Bass family. The SCBI President has family that are commercial crabbers and close ties to the commercial Flounder gigging in that area. That IMHO is the real reason behind all of this. She has already publicly stated she don't like recreational fishermen and pretty much hopes we all go away. That very reason there floors me why the RFA would back them.
> 
> Specks and Spots, to give you and example of just how this group operates, Driftwoodfisher spent the better part of a week just trying to find out who I was and what my agenda was. He went so far as publishing my name here. No big deal, but if I really wanted my real name out there it would be in my screen name instead of Gater. But the real pisser is posting my former tournament partners full name on here. He does not post here and I really don't think he is a member of 2cool so would you do that.
> 
> ...





gater said:


> Thanks for the kind words....I am touched.
> 
> It's typical of how the RFA operates. CCA was not part of this thread but you and your friends bring it into the thread because just like anything else that is talked about on this board, if you don't agree with your petty little minded group your a moron, drunk, idiot ect...... and it's all CCA's fault. I really think people are begining to see right through all the BS that comes from your clan.
> 
> ...


Ummmmmm I really don't think I have to say anything derogative here regarding CCA, your intelligence, or lack thereof. I believe I will just let your words do the talking.


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## TrueblueTexican (Aug 29, 2005)

*Wow*

RFA -CCA can both jump in a salt marsh mud for all I care (from a FORMER CCA viewpoint)

Bunch of Morons seeing who can shout each other down, belittle and outcuss the next -- all just to show who has the biggest pair -

Talks CHEAP guys -- sad3sm

I want to see this area restored -- don't know as I believe half the BS thrown at the subject - and I have known and fished the area for 50 of my fifty four years.

I posted aerials back to the sixties to show what the area was really like given seasonal floods and droughts -- just for Fidelity of arguement.

An enemy of an enemy may be a friend to some --

Maybe Judge Mills CAN get it all sorted out

RFA and CCA will NEVER get another dime from me.


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## CJ PORTER (Jul 27, 2006)

Why hasn't the federal gov't stepped in to force the issue on behalf of the whooping cranes? Isn't that what they normally do? If they would then all of this bickering on the issues would cease and we'd see some action.


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## SolarScreenGuy (Aug 15, 2005)

CJ PORTER said:


> Why hasn't the federal gov't stepped in to force the issue on behalf of the whooping cranes? Isn't that what they normally do? If they would then all of this bickering on the issues would cease and we'd see some action.


I say that is an excellent question. I don't know the exact answer but I believe there are those who are on the front line who will know.


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## driftwoodfisher (Oct 4, 2005)

*CB and VS*

Ok people. I wish I knew how to do this (technicality) but I do not know how to. So how about this. Lets take a pole. Very simple. Are for opening it up or do think it should keep closed. Lets just see what happens. No politics. Just answer the question. For or against. Plelase keep this too only a one line response. No politics or personal attacks.


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## driftwoodfisher (Oct 4, 2005)

driftwoodfisher said:


> Ok people. I wish I knew how to do this (technicality) but I do not know how to. So how about this. Lets take a pole. Very simple. Are for opening it up or do think it should keep closed. Lets just see what happens. No politics. Just answer the question. For or against. Plelase keep this too only a one line response. No politics or personal attacks.


Count me for opening up Cedar Bayou and Vincent Slough.


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## jim smarr (May 21, 2004)

I vote yes on opening both passes per the first design 300 feet wide and 12 feet deep.


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## Snap Draggin (Nov 11, 2007)

I'm in.


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## chicapesca (Jun 7, 2004)

I'm for it. :smile: For both I mean.


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## Reef Dawg (Dec 20, 2004)

Open both passes!


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## slinger10 (May 12, 2010)

Open them both


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## 6.5 shooter dude (Jan 8, 2008)

I'm all in for both to be opened.


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## SolarScreenGuy (Aug 15, 2005)

jim smarr said:


> I vote yes on opening both passes per the first design 300 feet wide and 12 feet deep.


Ditto so it's done right!


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## Jim-Bo (Jun 14, 2005)

Open both!


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## Pocketfisherman (May 30, 2005)

Both


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## Wading Mark (Apr 21, 2005)

I would like to see it deep enough to run out of Goose Island and go tarpon fishing.


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## fishsmart (Dec 5, 2004)

Both and soon.

Charles


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## whozurdaddy (Aug 23, 2010)

I use to take my son, his friends, and my nephews. Many times we would camp overnight. Although grown, when I see them, the conversations almost always revert back to "Remember that time at Cedar Bayou". Concern over


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## whozurdaddy (Aug 23, 2010)

Concern over "Cost" to reopen? Compared to what, Health Care, Stimulus? My two cents, with everyone going to the Flotilla, let's bring shovels and start digging on an outgoing tide and jump start the project. Anyone have ideas on how to organize launching so we don't all show up at Goose Island? It would suck if the Judge showed up and no place to park.


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## Tailshot (Jan 23, 2010)

Open 'em up. Even if they won't help the bay system by being open, they sure won't hurt it by being open. The opposite is that if they could have POSSIBLY hurt the bay system by being closed, it would help to open them. Logically, either way, they need to be open.

It's the anthropomorphic global warming scenario applied right in our back yard. We need to kick that nuclear power plant off the Guadalupe River, too, before they steal all the water.


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## driftwoodfisher (Oct 4, 2005)

I'm really new at this stuff and spelling is not that great. I have opened a poll on the other thread. If you have time please visit that thread and respond to the Poll. Thank you all for your trouble. People can make a difference. In a nut shell I think we should open Vincent Slough and Cedar Bayou back up the way nature had arranged all the sand before man closed it up. Then we can see what happens. Gods speed.


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## 6.5 shooter dude (Jan 8, 2008)

driftwoodfisher said:


> I'm really new at this stuff and spelling is not that great. I have opened a poll on the other thread. If you have time please visit that thread and respond to the Poll. Thank you all for your trouble. People can make a difference. In a nut shell I think we should open Vincent Slough and Cedar Bayou back up the way nature had arranged all the sand before man closed it up. Then we can see what happens. Gods speed.


http://2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/showthread.php?t=302865


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## gater (May 25, 2004)

*CB*



driftwoodfisher said:


> I'm really new at this stuff and spelling is not that great. I have opened a poll on the other thread. If you have time please visit that thread and respond to the Poll. Thank you all for your trouble. People can make a difference. In a nut shell I think we should open Vincent Slough and Cedar Bayou back up the way nature had arranged all the sand before man closed it up. Then we can see what happens. Gods speed.


*Man did not close Cedar Bayou* and VS still has nothing to do with Cedar Bayou. VS has nothing to do with keeping Cedar Bayou open. Not sure why you continue to spread false information. While were at it why don't you be a man and respond to your pm's like I do yours. Gater


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## Snap Draggin (Nov 11, 2007)

Gater, are you so against re-opening the pass because of the award CCA gave Perry Bass? How bad would that make CCA look if their poster boy gets convicted of an environmental crime?


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## rsparker67 (Mar 30, 2008)

gater said:


> *Man did not close Cedar Bayou* and VS still has nothing to do with Cedar Bayou. VS has nothing to do with keeping Cedar Bayou open. Not sure why you continue to spread false information. While were at it why don't you be a man and respond to your pm's like I do yours. Gater


 I thought MAN did close Cedar Bayou, then tried to reopen it after the fact... so was it reopened properly? It would be hard to reopen the pass to its correct location but a better effort would be nice. So since Man did try to reopen it, is this why you say that Man did not close it?


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## br1006 (Mar 24, 2006)

Well I have been following these threads for a while now and do not claim to be an expert by any means. However, I have spent considerable time researching and reading up on this discussion as it of interest to me. 

By my understanding and research I do believe the passes need to be reopened and restored to the way they were before they were closed by man after the oil spill when they were closed to prevent oil from getting in to the bays. Vinson Slough is vital according to all the scientists studies I have read online. The FACT that cedar bayou was reopened but VS was not returned to its original state is what has caused the current situation. Why it was not restored to its original state is a mystery to me and the center of debate for many.

The correlation of open passes and the health of a bay system is NOT debatable. One only needs to look at the Laguna Madre and the reopening of Packery Channel to see first hand how an open pass can revitalize a bay system. The LM has seen dramatic improvements in fishing quality and grass bed growth since Packery was reopened.

I have witnessed forst hand how the bay system around CB and VS has detoriated over the last several years and it is sad IMO.

I dont know anything about all the allegations on here about the Bass family and there role in keeping the passes from being reopened. All I can say is that anyone who argues against reopening the passes or stands in the way of getting them opened and returned to their original state is IGNORING the FACTS and the SCIENCE.

So continue on with your arguements etc... all you want. As for me I will support the people who are trying to do IN MY OPINION what I think is right for the bay system and the future of fishing in this area.


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## jim smarr (May 21, 2004)

*Gater*



gater said:


> *Man did not close Cedar Bayou* and VS still has nothing to do with Cedar. VS has nothing to do with keeping Cedar Bayou open. Not sure why you continue to spread false information. While were at it why don't you be a man and respond to your pm's like I do yours. Gater


Gater- 

The Texas General Land Office environmental Attorneys have stated the illegal filling of Vinson's Slough was not only illegal but criminal. I for the life of me do not understand why you keep trying to protect Perry and Lee Bass on the illegal filling in of wetlands that closed Vinson's Slough. Documents and and eye witness accounts exist tying these men to the act. You have no shame sir. 

Jim Smarr
RFA-Texas
361-463-1558
[email protected]


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## Reef Dawg (Dec 20, 2004)

jim smarr said:


> Gater-
> 
> The Texas General Land Office environmental Attorneys have stated the illegal filling of Vinson's Slough was not only illegal but criminal. I for the life of me do not understand why you keep trying to protect Perry and Lee Bass on the illegal filling in of wetlands that closed Vinson's Slough. Documents and and eye witness accounts exist tying these men to the act. You have no shame sir.
> 
> ...


Git him Jim! There is no punishment harsh enough for people who rape children, citizens, or the land!

Jim


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## gater (May 25, 2004)

*JimSmarr*



jim smarr said:


> Gater-
> 
> The Texas General Land Office environmental Attorneys have stated the illegal filling of Vinson's Slough was not only illegal but criminal. I for the life of me do not understand why you keep trying to protect Perry and Lee Bass on the illegal filling in of wetlands that closed Vinson's Slough. Documents and and eye witness accounts exist tying these men to the act. You have no shame sir.
> 
> ...


Jim, why don't you read! I never said anything about VS and I have no need to protect Perry and Bass. So now Perry is involved, who's next.
Is this the same Perry you buddied up against to get your letter on snapper fishing. After taking pictures with him I thought you were buds and now you mention him in the same sentence as being involved in a criminal act. You sir have no shame! :spineyes:


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## jim smarr (May 21, 2004)

*Gater*



gater said:


> Jim, why don't you read! I never said anything about VS and I have no need to protect Perry and Bass. So now Perry is involved, who's next.
> Is this the same Perry you buddied up against to get your letter on snapper fishing. After taking pictures with him I thought you were buds and now you mention him in the same sentence as being involved in a criminal act. You sir have no shame! :spineyes:


Gater-

PERRY RICHARDSON BASS and LEE MARSHAL BASS
are the men I was talking about. Attempting to drag anyone else into this as you just did shows how vendictive you have become. You need serious mental help man.

Jim Smarr


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## gater (May 25, 2004)

*Perry*



jim smarr said:


> Gater-
> 
> PERRY RICHARDSON BASS and LEE MARSHAL BASS
> are the men I was talking about. Attempting to drag anyone else into this as you just did shows how vendictive you have become. You need serious mental help man.
> ...


Thank God...I didn't think you would go that low. Shows ya how much I know about the Bass family you say I support! My mental state is fine, you are the one that gets so defensive when someone don't take your stance. I have no reason to be vendictive, you might want to go back and read all of hate you have posted on this topic.


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## driftwoodfisher (Oct 4, 2005)

gater said:


> *Man did not close Cedar Bayou* and VS still has nothing to do with Cedar Bayou. VS has nothing to do with keeping Cedar Bayou open. Not sure why you continue to spread false information. While were at it why don't you be a man and respond to your pm's like I do yours. Gater


I have answered your PM Gator. Every one knows VS does have a direct effect on Cedar Bayou and the entire bay system. Since you asked me about answering questions. I really don't want to bring up a dead slough (horse) get it?. Again I will ask you, what is your addenda and did man close up Vincent Slough? If a question is to personal to answer I can understand that. I can let it go. The who's and why's really don't matter. Lets right a wrong. Finger points, personal attacks will not improve the environment. Its all about the environment man. Good day!


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## driftwoodfisher (Oct 4, 2005)

Please forgive me. I forgot to remind everyone to check out. http://www.texasflats.net/index.php...0b90bc22e88c149&topic=10821.msg64880#msg64880


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## SolarScreenGuy (Aug 15, 2005)

Snap Draggin said:


> Gater, are you so against re-opening the pass because of the award CCA gave Perry Bass? How bad would that make CCA look if their poster boy gets convicted of an environmental crime?


Aha! I think you may have just revealed gaters motive! gater, I been wondering what's wrong with you. Now, I think I know.


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## gater (May 25, 2004)

*Salty*



Old Salty said:


> Aha! I think you may have just revealed gaters motive! gater, I been wondering what's wrong with you. Now, I think I know.


You don't know much...I really don't care what award CCA has given to Perry Bass, It doesn't mean squat to me. There is really nothing wrong with me Salty. The problem seems to be from your side. I disagree with your stance and you don't like that. As I have mentioned more than once there is know hidden agenda only a difference in opinion that obviously a few don't like.

Pretty simple from the way I see it.....It does not make enviromental nor economic sense to open Cedar Bayou and no one has yet to prove that otherwise. There is so much miss information spewed from the SCBI and RFA camp who really knows what to believe. A good example to ponder is the damage estimate of 60 billion dollars. Just how does one come up with that and can actually say it with a straight face. That is probably twice of what the BP oil spill cost. And that figure has actually changed a couple times and according to the RFA has actually gone down from the original estimate from a few years ago.

By the way Salty, can you please tell me who put the sand in VS, I am trying to find out and know one seems to know!

Gater :spineyes:


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## SolarScreenGuy (Aug 15, 2005)

gater said:


> You don't know much...I really don't care what award CCA has given to Perry Bass, It doesn't mean squat to me. There is really nothing wrong with me Salty. The problem seems to be from your side. I disagree with your stance and you don't like that. As I have mentioned more than once there is know hidden agenda only a difference in opinion that obviously a few don't like.
> 
> Pretty simple from the way I see it.....It does not make enviromental nor economic sense to open Cedar Bayou and no one has yet to prove that otherwise. There is so much miss information spewed from the SCBI and RFA camp who really knows what to believe. A good example to ponder is the damage estimate of 60 billion dollars. Just how does one come up with that and can actually say it with a straight face. That is probably twice of what the BP oil spill cost. And that figure has actually changed a couple times and according to the RFA has actually gone down from the original estimate from a few years ago.
> 
> ...


Are you color blind? Smarr has already made it perfectly clear in red. You have read his posts and replied. I don't think we can make it any more simple for you to understand. BTW- 2cooler poll on reopening or leaving closed shows 96% in favor of reopening. Looks like you are once again way out of step.


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## gater (May 25, 2004)

*Color blind*



Old Salty said:


> Are you color blind? Smarr has already made it perfectly clear in red. You have read his posts and replied. I don't think we can make it any more simple for you to understand. BTW- 2cooler poll on reopening or leaving closed shows 96% in favor of reopening. Looks like you are once again way out of step.


Salty I can't see anything in Red, only black and white. You and Smarr are very, very good with BS, promises and threats, answers, not so good. I know why you, it's because you have no honest answers.

BTW, the 2cooler poll has 49 people in favor. Out of 900 or so that has viewed the poll that is pretty dang impressive. That should surely get the COE and the USFWS attention real quick. You might want to consider heading down to the AWR here in a few weeks and poll the Whoopers when they show up to help pad your numbers.

BTW the four threads on this page have over 16,000 views and only 49 have been in favor. That tell's me that one, people really could care less or two they are not sure what to believe anymore. Salty what do you think the reason is? Since you can't answer that, this is where you insert Gater, your an insane drunken CCA whore moron.!

*Salty, twelve long years of endless promises, rejected permits, threatened lawsuits ect.......We have one of the top fishery management staffs in the Country within the TP&WD, a top notch staff with the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, you have the support of the CCA, the RFA and more yet you cannot secure a permit to dredge this Bayou. Would'nt you think that if this pass was so .... important to the Coastal Bend that at the very least those top two agencies would have gone to war to make it happen. This is one, but not the only reason not to believe all the BS that is spewed here by your side.* :smile:

Gater


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## jim smarr (May 21, 2004)

Gater- your help on this issue has been outstanding! 

Thanks


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## saltyfeet (Mar 19, 2009)

*whew....*

wow this has been a long thread, and its sole effect on me has been that I will never again have anything to do with CCA. learning that CCA supports the Bass family in this has turned my stomach. what a sad day it is when sportsmen have to resort to courts to force people to do the right thing.


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## Snap Draggin (Nov 11, 2007)

There is an old saying that comes to mind. "It's better to remain silent and presumed an idiot than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."


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## wet dreams (May 21, 2004)

Snap Draggin said:


> There is an old saying that comes to mind. "It's better to remain silent and presumed an idiot than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."


Joe, you know he don't care who knows he's an idiot.....WW


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## cruss (Aug 31, 2005)

*bayou*

On the question of whether or not the bayou can remain open on its own accord, can anyone date the last dredging before the 1979 blockage for the oil spill. Just curious.


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## [email protected] (May 24, 2004)

*The comings and goings of Cedar Bayou*

-Cedar Bayou was documented closed in 1913 due to silting.

-Opened in summer 1915; hurricane.

-Documented closed due to silting late 1937-early 1938; drought.

-Opened by dredge 1939 TX Fish and Oyster Commission (now TPWD).

-Documented closed due to silting 1957-58; drought.

-Opened by TPWD dredge 1959.

-Closed 1979 to prevent IXTOC oil spill from entering bay.

-Opened by Hurricane Allen 1980.

-Closed due to silting 1984-85.

-Opened by TPWD dredge 1987.

-Closed due to silting early '90s.

-Dredged by TPWD 1995.

-Closed around 2000 due to silting.

-Opened by Hurricane Claudette July 2003.

-Closed Dec 2007 and remains closed today.


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## [email protected] (May 24, 2004)

*More on Cedar Bayou colsing and openings.*

Canyon Dam at Canyon Lake, was constructed between 1958 and 1964. The lake was filled in 1968. It would appear that Cedar Bayou has flowed for successively shorter periods every time it was opened since then.

That Cedar Bayou closed during an extended drought in 1913 should indicate the impact of Guadalupe inflow on Cedar Bayou.


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## jim smarr (May 21, 2004)

*EJ*

I will look for data on Vinson's Slough as it has always been much wider and deeper than Cedar Bayou through history. Cedar Bayou records leave Vinson's Slough out of the picture.

just saying

Jim Smarr


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## cruss (Aug 31, 2005)

*vinson's*

beg to differ on vs being deeper, back in the 70's I use to walk across vs with no problem on the st. joe's side but would never attempt to cross cedar bayou.


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## driftwoodfisher (Oct 4, 2005)

Cedar Bayou was documented closed in 1913 due to silting.

-Opened in summer 1915; hurricane.* And another big cane in 1919*

-Documented closed due to silting late 1937-early 1939 so it stayed open for a long time by it's self OK ? 29 years!

-Opened by dredge 1939 TX Fish and Oyster Commission (now TPWD).

-Documented closed due to silting 1957-58; drought. Dang 19 years!

-Opened by TPWD dredge 1959. cane Carla 1961 and it stayed open for 20 years

-Closed 1979 to prevent IXTOC oil spill from entering bay.

-Opened by Hurricane Allen 1980. What happened here? 

-Closed due to silting 1984-85. So it stayed open for 4 years by its self?? (after the closing by man that closed VS and CB)

-Opened by TPWD dredge 1987. Then cane Gilbert came in 1988.

-Closed due to silting early '90s. Looks like it stayed open for 2 years and stayed closed for a long time! No water flow without VS flowing will cause that. 

-Dredged by TPWD 1995. Man what took so long to open this thing up? Please remember Vincent Slough is still not open?

-Closed around 2000 due to silting. Do you remember Brett in 1999??? We need more water flow (VS). Please don't forget, it stayed opened for 20 years with canes and all by it's self with canes and all. 

-Opened by Hurricane Claudette July 2003. Just a trickle 

-Closed Dec 2007 and remains closed today.

Is it just me or am I missing something? This is a real simplistic way to look at this discussion. If Vincent Slough is not opened Cedar Bayou will not stand a chance.


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## jim smarr (May 21, 2004)

1959 to 1979 open 20 years before man closed both passes.


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## driftwoodfisher (Oct 4, 2005)

jim smarr said:


> 1959 to 1979 open 20 years before man closed both passes.


Looks that way to me. Before man closed Vincent Slough it stayed open with canes, dams and all. Please don't forget Canyon lake was built in 1964 (this is another man made thing). Water flow is the secrete.


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## chicapesca (Jun 7, 2004)

Ok, I have a question. TPWD dredged CB in 1939, 1959, 1987 and 1995. What prompted them to dredge at these times? I mean why did they seem to find the money to do the dredging at these particular times?


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## driftwoodfisher (Oct 4, 2005)

chicapesca said:


> Ok, I have a question. TPWD dredged CB in 1939, 1959, 1987 and 1995. What prompted them to dredge at these times? I mean why did they seem to find the money to do the dredging at these particular times?


QUOTE=chicapesca;3034980]Ok, I have a question. TPWD dredged CB in 1939, 1959, 1987 and 1995. What prompted them to dredge at these times? I mean why did they seem to find the money to do the dredging at these particular times?[/QUOTE]

chicapesca That is a great question. I was not involved with any of those meetings but the (the powers) must have understood the importance of a healthy bay system..They understood back then, that fresh salt water in old salt water out is a good thing. If you look at the history and wonder, why did they open it back up back then. Back then people spent more time talking about the health of thing like the grass, the cattle and the bays. Politics and politicians were not mentioned. If it is not the way it was then fix it. Period. Today is a different time.


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## [email protected] (May 24, 2004)

*Chica - You would have to ask TPWD.*

My guess would be a differnet set of funds available in a different period of time. When I inquired whether TPWD would dredge the pass again I was told that with thirty years of data collection (during which the pass was both open and closed) they could find no significant impact to relative relative abundance of recreationally and commercially important species to justify the expense. They do not oppose the re-opening. They simply have no supporting data and fewer funds.

The most important point to me is the closing of Cedar Bayou in 1913. If this would occur at a time before the Guadalupe was dammed and the ICW dug across the bays (redirecting historic flows) how can we ever hope to keep it open today unless a funding plan for periodic maintenance can be formulated and put into action?


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## driftwoodfisher (Oct 4, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> My guess would be a differnet set of funds available in a different period of time. When I inquired whether TPWD would dredge the pass again I was told that with thirty years of data collection (during which the pass was both open and closed) they could find no significant impact to relative relative abundance of recreationally and commercially important species to justify the expense. They do not oppose the re-opening. They simply have no supporting data and fewer funds.
> 
> The most important point to me is the closing of Cedar Bayou in 1913. If this would occur at a time before the Guadalupe was dammed and the ICW dug across the bays (redirecting historic flows) how can we ever hope to keep it open today unless a funding plan for periodic maintenance can be formulated and put into action?


*July 20, 1909 a hurricane passed directly over Velasco, Texas,* There, the calm center lasted 45 minutes, and was followed by devastating winds on the other side which destroyed one-half of the town. 
*In August, 1909*, a very violent hurricane raked Haiti, caused high winds and rains in Cuba, and entered the Yucatan Channel on August 25. As the storm approached the Mexican coast it caused gales and tremendous seas along the Texas coast. It went to Northeastern Mexico causing an enormous loss of life and property. Unofficial estimates placed the Mexican death toll at 1,500 as a result of floods and mud

Mother nature does have a direct impact with keeping the water flowing. I still don't see how this can discount "why Cedar Bayou was opened back up man back then". Why did the old fishers of men find the funds and time to open that great ventrical to our beloved bay system? They just must have had a better understanding of importance of things, back then. You tell me.


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## [email protected] (May 24, 2004)

*I can only guess at the answers...*

So here's a couple of guesses:

1) Back in the day when TPWD and Texas Fish and Oyster Commission dredged the pass they believed it was more important than they believe today.

2) Back in the day when the pass was dredged the agency had funds available or could tap funding to support the project. I attended a Coastal Resources Advisory Committee meeting yesterday during which we were informed Coastal Fisheries Division (along with all other divisions within the agency) were being called upon to exist on a 5% budget reduction next year and that there have been hints that the next budget could be reduced even more. That right there paints a bleak picture for TPWD participating in further dredging.

I have never believed that Cedar Bayou was being ignored (by TPWD) as part of a conspiracy or through lack of desire to improve fisheries. TPWD Coastal Fisheries, in addition to being the managers of the resources, is in the fishing business just the same as so many of us. They want people to catch fish. They devise and implement management plans so we can all catch more fish. Whether a pass, no matter how large or how small, can have significant impact upon the fisheries can be argued until the cows come home. What should never be overlooked is that passes make great fishing spots if they make nothing else. For that reason, and that reason alone, I believe if the funds were readily at hand, TPWD would have restored the pass long ago.

Linking the re-opening of Vinson Slough to the re-opening of Cedar Bayou could not increase or decrease the chances of the pass remaining open or closing (my opinion formed through interpretation of coastal hydrology and geology presentations.) If the connection to the Gulf of Mexico for either or both can be restored I say kudos to those who accomplish it. But, and a big but here, there will always remain the need for maintenance dredging to keep it flowing. Who will fund it?


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## Snap Draggin (Nov 11, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> If the connection to the Gulf of Mexico for either or both can be restored I say kudos to those who accomplish it. But, and a big but here, there will always remain the need for maintenance dredging to keep it flowing. Who will fund it?


I say let CCA fund it since they are so adamantly in favor of restoring it. They have plenty of funds, and it would definitely help their image.


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## Torpedo (May 21, 2004)

I'm getting W M I flashbacks.


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## reeltimer (Feb 5, 2010)

Torpedo said:


> I'm getting W M I flashbacks.


lol no kidding!I say open it now and end the debate!:cheers:


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## SolarScreenGuy (Aug 15, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> So here's a couple of guesses:
> 
> 1) Back in the day when TPWD and Texas Fish and Oyster Commission dredged the pass they believed it was more important than they believe today.
> 
> ...


EJ, I got bad news for ya'. Keep posting this kind of nonsense and watch your sales start dropping. I for one quit your hip, slick and cool magazine a while back when you started this disinformation attack the first time. You are not "making friends and influencing people" on this board. The cat's out of the bag on CB/VS. 
Old Salty-still pluggin'


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## gater (May 25, 2004)

*Old Salty*



Old Salty said:


> EJ, I got bad news for ya'. Keep posting this kind of nonsense and watch your sales start dropping. I for one quit your hip, slick and cool magazine a while back when you started this disinformation attack the first time. You are not "making friends and influencing people" on this board. The cat's out of the bag on CB/VS.
> Old Salty-still pluggin'


Old Salty I swear you are a Jim Smarr clone! Your comment is a perfect example of what I have mentioned earlier. If someone does not agree with you your going to cut them down. Now whats really sad and an all time low for your pea brain, you want to bring the man's business into it, typical SCBI tactic's. Salty, the way your little group handles itself it's a wonder the COE hasn't cemented it closed.

Gater


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## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

I see the CCA Gestapo is in the house again. They aren't very discriminating in their board member selection if ole gater made it thru the ranks. Must not give the the Wunderlic Test or vette them. I see that as a turn for the better in the long run.


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## Snap Draggin (Nov 11, 2007)

gater said:


> Old Salty I swear you are a Jim Smarr clone! Your comment is a perfect example of what I have mentioned earlier. If someone does not agree with you your going to cut them down. Now whats really sad and an all time low for your pea brain, you want to bring the man's business into it, typical SCBI tactic's. Salty, the way your little group handles itself it's a wonder the COE hasn't cemented it closed.
> 
> Gater



Ummmmmm look at what you are doing genius. Like I said, keep posting. You are doing more good than you know.


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## cruss (Aug 31, 2005)

*dredge*

Maybe it was dredged properly in 1939 and 59 because the island wasn't owned by Perry Bass or his siblings.


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## CJ PORTER (Jul 27, 2006)

Whooping Cranes demise - due to man

CB/VS struggle to remain open for long periods of time - due to man

(before hydrology was changed from ICW, Jetties, and increased pressure on San Antonio/Guadalupe River the passes might have silted for short periods but would reopen themselves and remain open. Now they can't sustain themeselves because humans have altered the hydrology. I don't care where the money comes from but we messed it up and we need to pay for it! We pay for everything else that is far less significant)


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## ankledeep (Aug 16, 2005)

Amem!!!!!!!


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## Snap Draggin (Nov 11, 2007)

Amen!


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## SolarScreenGuy (Aug 15, 2005)

The whole point is very simple. Open passes are good. Closed passes, not good. And just to remind, gater said leave them closed in the poll thread started by Driftwoodfisher. Then he said I had a pea brain, which if it were true, it would mean gater had less than a gnat's brain. To put in perspective, I would posess Einstein like genius and gater would still as always be classified as moronic and having a condition of chronic stupification coupled with hallucinatory delusions of grandeur. It's OK gater, no one expects you to understand this post.


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## McTrout (May 22, 2004)

Greenie to ya CJ Porter...you nailed it. There are a lot more forces at stake than just a simple dredge...Wish things were that simple. We also need to look upstream for any true long term benefits. Sucks, doesn't it? The next real war will be fresh water inflow.


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## SolarScreenGuy (Aug 15, 2005)

And now to EJ. Don't bother with the private message. You won't get a reply from me. It's clear whose camp you have chosen. Bring your questions into the light of the public forum for all to see. You can try to spin it however you want, but the bottom line is you can't have it both ways. It is a shame, I really enjoyed your magazine and I was a friend of Gene Baker who started Gulfcoast Connections. You have certainly brought it a long ways since then, but I promise I will never buy it again unless you get "squared away" on this CB/VS issue. I have posted before and I will post it again. There is a growing group of people who will never give up on CB/VS. Never. You have an opportunity and an obligation IMO to stand up for what's right but you have chosen not to. BTW-the guys in the white hats will eventually win this battle. If I were in your shoes, I would not want to look like a "johnny come lately".


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## Snap Draggin (Nov 11, 2007)

EJ and gater are two pea brains...er um...I mean two peas in a pod.


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## jim smarr (May 21, 2004)

*Fresh Water blue crabs-new species*



McTrout said:


> Greenie to ya CJ Porter...you nailed it. There are a lot more forces at stake than just a simple dredge...Wish things were that simple. We also need to look upstream for any true long term benefits. Sucks, doesn't it? The next real war will be fresh water inflow.


Mike- EJ- et al 

If it is all about fresh water inflow why is Mansfield area your new stomping grounds? How is the blue crab, trout, flounder, redfish population in the Guadalupe, Colorado or Trinity River water shed upstream I have to ask? Do they sell crab traps in Bastrop? Are these rivers tourist destinations to target saltwater species? I don't think so.

Most of our guides have left our area to fish neighboring waters. I agree some fresh water inflows are helpful but not the Holy Grail portrayed by some as much as clean fresh saltwater flush from the Gulf. No saltwater species that I know of has to travel to Bastrop to spawn although they do all need to go to the Gulf to complete a life cycle.

Mike 350,000 plus has been spent on engineering with the most respected firm in the business. It is funny three or four of you seem to know more than the engineers about restoration of a pass. TPWD has never consulted with an engineering firm when dealing with the

Cedar Bayou -Vinson's Slough system. Land Commissioner Jerry Patterson

brought the best to the table to make sure the job was done right 300 feet wide and 15 feet deep. The public engineers at USFWS and the USCORPS cut the plan to 100 feet wide and 6 feet deep. The engineers that could not make a living in the public sector working for the government have cut the plan by a third due to Bass intervention. Remember that one of the main people reviewing the plan (Alan Stran) has a son that works for a Bass company. 

Mike you guys have tried to throw rocks for years under various user names on several message boards. The public is tired of it as are those of us that have worked very hard to push for opening our passes for many years. 

If you and E.J. have changed your line of work and acquired an Engineering Degree recently please accept my apology for not recognizing that accolade.

kindest personal regards as always,

Jim


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## [email protected] (May 24, 2004)

*Here's my best shot.*

*First - I never once said I wanted Cedar Bayou and/or Vinson Slough to remain closed, nor have I ever said opening either or both would be a bad thing.*

What I have said is that Cedar Bayou and Vinson Slough have been opening and closing naturally during periods of reduced Guadalupe River inflow and as the result of tidal surges from tropical storms for the past 100 years.

I have made reference to the mechanisms and forces that created and continue to shape the barrier islands of the Texas coast. Way back in history there were dozens of passes. Today, only a small number of natural passes remain.

I have stated that opening Cedar Bayou and Vinson Slough should not viewed as a silver bullet (panacea) to restore the Guadalupe estuary (San Antonio and Aransas Bays) to its historic productivity. It takes a river to make an estuary.

I have pointed out that man's attempts to restore Cedar Bayou and Vinson Slough within the past 50 years have been shorter-lived than those made earlier. Further, I have asserted that the reason for this is likely attributable to reduced hydraulic energy within the bays following the construction of dams and increased dependence and usage of the Guadalupe River by municipalities, industry and agriculture. 

I have cited that after 35 years of data collection, TPWD can identify no correlation between Cedar Bayou and/or Vinson Slough being open (or closed) and the relative abundance of recreationally and commercially important species in the region.

I have reported that TPWD is not currently funded to undertake another dredging project, although they do not oppose others doing so.

I have said that reduced Guadalupe River inflow, and unnaturally prolonged freshwater inundations and elevated salinity events over the past 50 years as the result of manipulation of inflow, have diminished the productivity of the Guadalupe estuary. 

I have stated that if Cedar Bayou and/or Vinson Slough could be restored, the connection will be short-lived and maintenance dredging to keep it flowing will be required.

*If any of this offends, disappoints or alienates me from any or all who wish to see Cedar Bayou and/or Vinson Slough restored - hate it for what it is - don't hate the messenger. *


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## driftwoodfisher (Oct 4, 2005)

EJ you say
I have cited that after 35 years of data collection, TPWD can identify no correlation between Cedar Bayou and/or Vinson Slough being open (or closed) and the relative abundance of recreationally and commercially important species in the region. How can you say that. No one asked me where I want to fish. If I wanted to fish in POC or ULM than I would have moved there. I want to fish in and around St.Charles bay system (you do know that is what our for fathers called it). So what I see is that our government wants to tell me where to fish by not taking care of nature? Man did close VS. period. Man should open it back up and see what happens.l


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## [email protected] (May 24, 2004)

driftwoodfisher - I'm just the messenger buddy.


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## driftwoodfisher (Oct 4, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> driftwoodfisher - I'm just the messenger buddy.[/QUOT
> Yes it sure looks that way and it reminds me of the last person in a trail ride into town (the person that picks up the poop) buddy.


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## driftwoodfisher (Oct 4, 2005)

EJ

I was just looking at your last post. Just who's message are you spouting? You said you are the messenger right. Don't you have your own opinion? Don't shoot the messenger, that is a lame way to not really say what you mean. Shoot me (if you may) because I am the messenger and proud of it. A proud taxpaying, Texan by berth.


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## [email protected] (May 24, 2004)

Driftwoodfisher - By virtue of age we are definitely part of one of the later generations to have joined the trail. I don't think that relegates us to poop detail though. 

TPWD Coastal Fisheries reports an incredible spike in seatrout recruitment this year in Aransas and San Antonio Bays, records actually. Hopefully we'll see something better than poop detail in a few years. Keep the faith!


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## driftwoodfisher (Oct 4, 2005)

EJ

We seem to agree with something after all. With all the years on this earth I have learned that poop still sounds like poop. You did not answer my question (and I have asked this question to a few people) who closed VS>.


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## Snap Draggin (Nov 11, 2007)

"If any of this offends, disappoints or alienates me from any or all who wish to see Cedar Bayou and/or Vinson Slough restored – hate it for what it is – don’t hate the messenger." 

It's REAL hard not to hate the messenger when all he does is spew CCA/TP&WD propaganda. By the way, hasn't there been a Bass involved in both organizations?


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## [email protected] (May 24, 2004)

Driftwoodfisher - The message comes from history, geologists, hydrologists and biologists. 

In my opinion I would prefer to see Cedar Bayou and Vinson Slough flowing, I've said that many times. I have enjoyed fishing there when it was open. However, and having said that, I have no more ability than you to make it happen. We cannot cancel the littoral drift of sand along the Gulf beach, we cannot remove the dams, we cannot fill in the ICW, we cannot deny the folks who live and work up-basin from the bay exercising their water rights that were granted in law. All we can do is conserve what is left and hope a permit is granted to the Aransas County Commissioners Court to open the pass and funding is secured to accomplish the project. 

I preach conservation of the resources we still have available to us and serve as a stakeholder representing recreational fishermen on the Guadalupe River/San Antonio and Aransas Bay-Basin Area Stakeholder Committee that was established by Senate Bill 3. My goal as a member of the committee is to encourage water planning for the future that will allow sufficient inflow to continue nourishing and replenishing San Antonio and Aransas Bays.


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## driftwoodfisher (Oct 4, 2005)

EJ
Well said. But please answer my question who did close VS? You say "I have no more ability than you to make it happen". This my friend we disagree again. We *can* stand up and organize and demand that people be held accountable. Why roll over and put our head in the sand. If you really mean that you want to see CB and VS open, then join us on Friday 8 October 2010.


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## [email protected] (May 24, 2004)

driftwoodfisher - I wish I could join the flotilla but I have a Montana trip next week. 

As for who closed Vinson Slough; Mother Nature has closed it several times and it was not reopened during the last dredge project, I'm not sure about the one before that, I'd have to research it. The mouth of Vinson Slough was reportedly used as a dredge material disposal site. We all know that. The dredge disposal site was specified in the permit; so I'm told. So if you might wish to discover why the spoils were placed there, I'd suggest you contact the US Army Corps of Engineers as they issue all dredge permits.


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## driftwoodfisher (Oct 4, 2005)

Thanks for the response. Good luck in Montana. I will be in St.Charles bay the 8 of Oct. You say. The dredge disposal site was specified in the permit; so I'm told (I was told there is an Easter bunny). So if you might wish to discover why the spoils were placed there, I'd suggest you contact the US Army Corps of Engineers as they issue all dredge permits. That answer is what I expected from the messenger, good luck with that.


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## jim smarr (May 21, 2004)

*EJ some facts for you*

*Here's my best shot.* 
​*First - I never once said I wanted Cedar Bayou and/or Vinson Slough to remain closed, nor have I ever said opening either or both would be a bad thing.*

What I have said is that Cedar Bayou and Vinson Slough have been opening and closing naturally during periods of reduced Guadalupe River inflow and as the result of tidal surges from tropical storms for the past 100 years.

I have made reference to the mechanisms and forces that created and continue to shape the barrier islands of the Texas coast. Way back in history there were dozens of passes. Today, only a small number of natural passes remain.
14 were closed due to Ixtoc in 1979. A few good folks have fought to restore a few of them.

I have stated that opening Cedar Bayou and Vinson Slough should not viewed as a silver bullet (panacea) to restore the Guadalupe estuary (San Antonio and Aransas Bays) to its historic productivity. It takes a river to make an estuary.

I have pointed out that man's attempts to restore Cedar Bayou and Vinson Slough within the past 50 years have been shorter-lived than those made earlier. Further, I have asserted that the reason for this is likely attributable to reduced hydraulic energy within the bays following the construction of dams and increased dependence and usage of the Guadalupe River by municipalities, industry and agriculture. 
Vinson's Slough was closed and never restored historically. First due to an oil spill secondly it was closed due to illegal/criminal spoil placement from recent Cedar Bayou dredge jobs.


I have cited that after 35 years of data collection, TPWD can identify no correlation between Cedar Bayou and/or Vinson Slough being open (or closed) and the relative abundance of recreationally and commercially important species in the region.
How about the lab TPWD ran on site at Cedar Bayou from the 1950's. The two reports resulting from this on site lab are the Ernest G. Simmons and B.D. King reports. One is extensive being 50 some odd pages of benefits of the passes. I shared these with the current TPWD Commissioners' this year.

I have reported that TPWD is not currently funded to undertake another dredging project, although they do not oppose others doing so.
TPWD was offered funding by our Congressman and TPWD refused it. They abandoned the permit. Land Commissioner Jerry Patterson took up where TPWD dropped the ball. He brought in Coast and Harbor Engineering an Internationally renowned firm to make sure the job was well designed. TPWD did not have engineering help.

I have said that reduced Guadalupe River inflow, and unnaturally prolonged freshwater inundations and elevated salinity events over the past 50 years as the result of manipulation of inflow, have diminished the productivity of the Guadalupe estuarsy.
Prolonged freshwater inundations and elevated salinities are easily remedied with fresh Gulf saltwater exchange through these vital passes. Fresh water inundation spikes vibrio, kills oysters and sea grass beds as evedienced at a recent TPWD Commission meeting report given by Ed Hagen speaking on sea grass beds lost due to heavy rainfall in Estes Flats.  



I have stated that if Cedar Bayou and/or Vinson Slough could be restored, the connection will be short-lived and maintenance dredging to keep it flowing will be required.
With proper restoration the passes will do as they did from 1959 to 1979 as they were open then closed due to Ixtoc oil spill. Vinson's was filled in with Cedar Bayou dredge spoils illegally and criminally per Enviro Attorney statement with the Texas General Land Office.​If the 300 foot wide and 15 foot deep proffered option were being used there would be little problem. Seems the plan is now 100 foot wide and 6 foot deep due to USFWS and US Corps of Engineers. Allan Stran the Engineer from the USFWS remember has a son working for a Bass company. No wonder Allan did not like what a world renowned Engineering firm suggested as the best option. Some of us are still exploring Judicial review on the criminal act to insure the first option is used to insure success. ​​We have talked about these issues but you seem to want to ignore the facts. Remember we have spent 350,000 dollars run through the GLO to get the facts via a world renowned Engineering firm. TPWD does not have the expertise they have in dealing with these issues.​With a Bass as Chairman Emeritus currently I doubt they want to know the truth. Many in the hunting and fishing world would like to see the Chairman Emeritus relieved of his duties so the honest folks at TPWD could do their job without being threatened with reprisals from Chairman Emeritus Lee Bass. Many a good man would have their lives back at TPWD.​They could once again hold their heads high in public. E. J. the good ole boy system is not working as it once did under the Basses. They are not thought well of for destroying our area. Finally people are beginning to revolt big time at many levels.

*If any of this offends, disappoints or alienates me from any or all who wish to see Cedar Bayou and/or Vinson Slough restored - hate it for what it is - don't hate the messenger.*​
 

Comments in red are mine and I take full responsibility as a representative of Texas Sportsmen for them.
Jim Smarr

RFA Texas
361-463-1558
[email protected]


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## [email protected] (May 24, 2004)

*FYI*

Dear driftwoodfisher,

The permit specifies all the parameters for a job including placement of spoil materials. The permit is probably available in public record. I would highly suspect the contractor placed the spoils as directed.

EJ


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## [email protected] (May 24, 2004)

Jim Smarr - You are very focused on the Ixtoc closure and the last two dredge projects but you are overlooking a very impportant piece of the puzzle. 

Who closed Cedar Bayou and Vinson Slough in 1913 and again in the middle-late 1930's? Rumor has it that Mother Nature might have been involved. 

We can learn from history and one of these lessons should be that if CIAP is the best available source for dredge funding we should be filing early and often as CIAP grants are not easy to obtain and when the award is decided it takes a good while to receive the actual funds. It would be a pity to see the passes restored only to have them close again in a few years and history suggests very strongly that they will close.

We all want the pass opened. The Commissioners Court has the ball so let's give them a chance to run with it. What any of us think we know about the past will not bring a dredge to the jobsite. We should be focused on the future. The only reason I joined this thread was to try and bring some history and agency position to light (as I understand it) for the benefit of participants. Cedar Bayou has a long and checkered past and not many understand it. I'm not sure I understand all of it but I do know Cedar Bayou is one heck of a fishing spot when its flowing. Hopefully future chapters will not be so complicated.

EJ


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## [email protected] (May 24, 2004)

*Fourteen passes closed during IXTOC 1 scare?*

Jim Smarr - In your post above you say that fourteen passes were closed, including Cedar Bayou, during the IXTOC-1 blowout and spill event to prevent oil from entering Texas bays. I am aware that the Brazos-Santiago Pass, Port Mansfield Pass and Aransas Pass were protected by booms and skimmers, (not closed) and that Cedar Bayou was filled with sand. That is four. Just curious...what were the other ten?

EJ


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## jim smarr (May 21, 2004)

*EJ*

You are digging a big hole for yourself. 

The TRUTHS OUT. 

Please don't insult everyone's intelligence. Many of us know different.


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## [email protected] (May 24, 2004)

Jim - I'm not trying to insult anything or anybody. I've just always heard that four passes were considered vulnerable during the IXTOC-1 and you mentioned fourteen. I was merely curious which others might have been protected or closed...that's all.


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## jim smarr (May 21, 2004)

*EJ*

I will have to look at the histirical maps but sorry they are with the Attorney's reviewing the long term damages of the closed passes for the criminal case. Most of these were open prior to your moving to Texas. I felt sure you were unaware of their names as many are not even on current maps.

There were 14 closed that had historical connections between the bays and the Gulf of Mexico.

The insulting inteligence statement one was far broader than the 14 passes question just so we are straight about it. I was refferencing the the numerous post on the issue most believe to be way off base.

You should really put the shovel down and stop digging a hole unless you are on top of the Illegal Sand Dam.


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## driftwoodfisher (Oct 4, 2005)

EJ, It is so apparent what side of this argument you are on. I can not understand that, because it is the health of our bay system and the future for our kids. You might need to back track a bit and re-think things.  You said:  The dredge disposal site was specified in the permit; so I'm told. So if you might wish to discover why the spoils were placed there, I'd suggest you contact the US Army Corps of Engineers as they issue all dredge permits. "What I'm told" my friend is a lame answer. Have a good Week in Montana. I will be at home doing "home business". All I care about it my* bay system *and that it is tended to.


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## jim smarr (May 21, 2004)

*Two different speaches to TPWD Commissioners*

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/business/feedback/meetings/2010/0826/agenda/

Public Comment Section mp3 tab-

Listen to 1:15 into the audio my testimony
then listen to 148:57 into the audio EJ's words.

No sigificant loss of habitat? 23,000 acres of prime nursery grounds would qualify I do believe as a significant loss of habitat much less the loss of water exchange. Pushing to cut Trout limits.

Rollin Ruebesomen 2:06.29 talks about the passes. Strong statement but TPWD is no longer involved as an Agency.

enjoy

Jim Smarr


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## jim smarr (May 21, 2004)

*Here are the passes that were active in 1979*



[email protected] said:


> Jim Smarr - In your post above you say that fourteen passes were closed, including Cedar Bayou, during the IXTOC-1 blowout and spill event to prevent oil from entering Texas bays. I am aware that the Brazos-Santiago Pass, Port Mansfield Pass and Aransas Pass were protected by booms and skimmers, (not closed) and that Cedar Bayou was filled with sand. That is four. Just curious...what were the other ten?
> 
> EJ


Here are some that were either boomed or closed. Most closed with sand. I may have missed a few. This is a good start until someone else add's a few names I am unaware of. If these were all open our fishing would be tremendous. I have asked the TPWD Commissioners to open them all as we are tired of cutting our limits. The first Texas fishing license was 50 cent in 1962 done to maintain natural coastal passes.John Conolly thought the passes were important as he pushed the law to implement a permanent fix for the funding. Seems somewhere along the way the PhD's have ignored the Governor's wisdom. All I have to say is what a mess our fisheries are currently. Opening the passes all of them would be the best habitat improvement project ever invisioned. We need to all push to reopen our passes.

The Fish Pass, San Luis Pass, Newport Pass, Port Aransas Pass , Yarbrough Pass, Boggy Slough, Packey Channel, Brazos Santiago, Corpus Christi Pass, Boca Chica Pass, Cedar Bayou, Vinson's Slough ,Brown Cedar Cut, North Pass, Mitchells Cut, Jack *** Pass,San Bernard Pass, Pass Cavalla, Galveston Bay Pass

Jim Smarr


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## gater (May 25, 2004)

*Closed*



jim smarr said:


> Here are some that were either boomed or closed. Most closed with sand. I may have missed a few. This is a good start until someone else add's a few names I am unaware of. If these were all open our fishing would be tremendous. I have asked the TPWD Commissioners to open them all as we are tired of cutting our limits. The first Texas fishing license was 50 cent in 1962 done to maintain natural coastal passes.John Conolly thought the passes were important as he pushed the law to implement a permanent fix for the funding. Seems somewhere along the way the PhD's have ignored the Governor's wisdom. All I have to say is what a mess our fisheries are currently. Opening the passes all of them would be the best habitat improvement project ever invisioned. We need to all push to reopen our passes.
> 
> The Fish Pass, San Luis Pass, Newport Pass, Port Aransas Pass , Yarbrough Pass, Boggy Slough, Packey Channel, Brazos Santiago, Corpus Christi Pass, Boca Chica Pass, Cedar Bayou, Vinson's Slough ,Brown Cedar Cut, North Pass, Mitchells Cut, Jack *** Pass,San Bernard Pass, Pass Cavalla, Galveston Bay Pass
> 
> Jim Smarr


:spineyes:
What am I missing!

Closed or boomed! Which is it, there is a difference. You are saying and have said many times before that there were 14 passes closed and have not been reopened and you think we should open them all. Did they leave the booms there. Those 14 you mentioned still closed? I swore I ran through San Luis Pass last month. Jim sounds to me your talking out your arse again. You know that is BS and you want people to believe it. Yep, I'm still the idiot.......

This is one of your many comments regarding the closed passes (2009)
_*We have figured out one school of redfish breeding would out preform the hatcheries 10 year out put. We push for all 14 passes to be reopened. Soon we will be back in Federal Court.*_

Jim I think you may have a shot at pulling this off if you can get the case heard in Judge Judy's court. Other than that I don't like your chances.

Gater


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## Rosharon Red (Mar 31, 2009)

In time the storms will open all NATURAL PASSES and there will be no issues. Most of us are enjoying the best fishing in generations and we want to *****!!!

Some parts of the coast "Texas" are in decline when other parts are flourishing so what is the cause for that! The VS and CB will open ONE DAY and we won't have to worry about it! Go out and fish!!


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## bamdvm (Apr 3, 2010)

If we limited use of motorized craft in the flats and back lakes, the passes would stay open. Burn boats keep them silted in.


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## jim smarr (May 21, 2004)

gater said:


> :spineyes:
> What am I missing!
> 
> Closed or boomed! Which is it, there is a difference. You are saying and have said many times before that there were 14 passes closed and have not been reopened and you think we should open them all. Did they leave the booms there. Those 14 you mentioned still closed? I swore I ran through San Luis Pass last month. Jim sounds to me your talking out your arse again. You know that is BS and you want people to believe it. Yep, I'm still the idiot.......
> ...


Gater - 

We are only trying to improve our fisheries by opening passes. Seems 
there are two types of energy positive and negative. Negative neturalizes power and you along with your negative friends could neturalize the South Texas Nuke. There are only a few of you left that attempt to contradict anything posted by me.

On the other hand pushing for better habitat and better fisheries makes a very happy state wide user group. We will continue to push for habitat
improvements in our bays and near offshore. 

Jim


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## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

Add Parkers Cut to the closed by man category.


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## jim smarr (May 21, 2004)

Haute Pursuit said:


> Add Parkers Cut to the closed by man category.


How could I miss Parkers Cut as it is a monster problem in Matagorda area. The closing of Parkers Cut has to go down in history as a major malfunction at the Corps for not using any common sense.

The Matagorda Yacht Club would put three Olives in a Martini for us if we could pull off a restoration of Parkers Cut. That sure would liven up the River.


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## driftwoodfisher (Oct 4, 2005)

It is almost time!

Please join all of us that want our bays to be healthy and vibrant We are having a gathering of fishers to go to Cedar Bayou, 8 Oct 2010 @ 8:30. The flotilla will be leaving from goose island boat ramp( or any other ramp) and will be going to Cedar Bayou, to see the devastation that no water flow has done do our wetlands. Please be a part of history and stand up to the people that don't want accountability. We can make a difference. See you there. God speed and tear down those sand dams(Quote) I was in the Bayou yesterday, all the way out to what Lynn aptly calls the "sand dam." If folks try to go out there who don't know the way and don't have a boat that runs fairly shallow, there will be some stuck boats. 
Take care, everybody.


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## SolarScreenGuy (Aug 15, 2005)

jim smarr said:


> How could I miss Parkers Cut as it is a monster problem in Matagorda area. The closing of Parkers Cut has to go down in history as a major malfunction at the Corps for not using any common sense.
> 
> The Matagorda Yacht Club would put three Olives in a Martini for us if we could pull off a restoration of Parkers Cut. That sure would liven up the River.


Man you can say that again! Parkers Cut use to be one fine fishing area. And not only would it help the river, but also the upper end of WMB.


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## [email protected] (Jun 5, 2009)

Here is the latest - published today in the Pilot.

http://rockportpilot.com/articles/2010/10/06/news/doc4cab8a20d680f314143617.txt


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## Torpedo (May 21, 2004)

*Cedar Bayou reopening nears permitting decision*

http://www.caller.com/news/2010/oct/06/cedar-bayou-reopening-nears-permitting-decision/


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## driftwoodfisher (Oct 4, 2005)

The meeting Friday at Cedar Bayou went really good. There was a nice article in the Rock port Paper yesterday, along with a right up in the Corpus paper. I'm going to post a quote from a different site that will shed some light. Thanks to all that supported this effort. To all of those that did not support this effort, you are banned from fishing down there for ever (no just kidding all are welcome).

_ their response was guarded, but over all very positive. I spoke with Col. Sallese as we walked to the sand dam and I can say that the permit will be issued very soon. We still had to find a spot to put that stupid grass and we did and showed them an area over by bloodworth which all has agreed that it would be a great spot to put it. So, now the CORPS will wait for Carlos and Hugo to send them that new plan and that should be it. Hugo and Carlos will take care of that in short order. I would say we are looking about another two weeks, then it will be a done deal. USFWS has signed off and sent it to the CORPS, Mr. Strand told me that they are finished, no more from USFWS. All in all is was a great day. _


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