# Prehistoric Vermin



## sharkchum (Feb 10, 2012)

My step son caught this monster in the creek this morning on live piggy perch while fishing for reds. These gar are eating up all the game fish, and need to be eradicated off the face of the earth, and we do our part every chance we get.
The only good thing about gar is they are great eating. It takes a little time to get to the meat, but it's well wort the effort. We got 4 gallon bags of pure white meat just off the back strap, and 3 more off of trimmings. We got more meat off this 1 fish than we can get off of 50 trout.


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## Notenoughtime (Mar 7, 2011)

Wow! What a beast.

Sharkchum and Sharkbait def have different views on this fish.


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## 348473 (Apr 12, 2017)

How's it eat? I think dolphin eat more than gar.

Sent from my FRD-L14 using Tapatalk


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## sharkchum (Feb 10, 2012)

hurricane matt said:


> How's it eat? I think dolphin eat more than gar.
> 
> Sent from my FRD-L14 using Tapatalk


 It tastes like catfish fried. What I like to do is boil it in crab boil, then strain it out and make gar balls with it. It's just like making crab balls or crab cakes, just substitute the boiled gar for the crab meat.
I hate dolphin to, but I can't legally kill them. I bet they would be good smoked on the pit. "Dolphin, the other white meat".


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## bigdav160 (Aug 25, 2004)

I saw a dead one in the intercoastal, bigger than that, last year. There seems to be thousands of them around Sargent. Many days you catch more gar than Reds


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## ShawnQ (May 21, 2004)

Awesome fish!
I found one laying on the bank in Galveston Bay today, removed a piece of the jaw and will soak it in bleach. One of my boys wanted to keep it.

In regards to gamefish, I used to think the same way. However, many biologists seem to argue otherwise. I don't necessarily agree. Some areas seem to have too many gar, which have to eat something. There are a lot of baitfish around though.

https://www.fieldandstream.com/arti...myth-busting-facts-about-alligator-gar#page-3

According to Dan Bennett, a fisheries biologist with the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department, studies have proved that these gar pose no real threat to gamefish popuÂ­lations. â€œThe majority of their diet consists of rough fish, like carp and shad,â€ Bennett said. â€œTheyâ€™re opportunistic feeders, so theyâ€™re going to eat what swims within reach of the bottom. Bass are stationary, which means a gar would have to hunt them down. Most of the gar we sampled actually had empty stomachs.â€

I've never eaten it, but will try if I land one!

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


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## ddakota (Jun 28, 2009)

Nice fish, I agree with you in that they are good to eat, depending on where caught. Iâ€™m going to disagree with you on them being vermin eating all the game fish.....science has shown it doesnâ€™t happen enough to be a problem. Gar get a bad rap from uneducated people. They are a vital part of the ecosystem and deserve respect. Iâ€™m glad the state stepped up and instituted the 1 alligator gar per day per person limit.

Good place to get some facts and not fiction or hearsay....

https://tpwd.texas.gov/fishboat/fish/management/alligator-gar/


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## That Robbie Guy (Aug 11, 2009)

Regardless of this... or that... great catch to your son!


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## 348473 (Apr 12, 2017)

Used to have a garodeo in brazoria county 20 years ago. Seen some huge ones there. And skinned out after. Not sure they still have it going on but nice fish there, just never kept one, one of those dark corners I need to investigate.

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## trout250 (Aug 24, 2005)

is limit still 1 per day


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## karstopo (Jun 29, 2009)

https://tpwd.texas.gov/regulations/...reshwater-fishing/bag-length-limits#section-0

One per day, no minimum length.

Gar can live for decades. I read where a 7 foot fish might be 40 years old.

I wonder what amount of mercury and other nasties a old fish like that has accumulated?


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## 2Ws (Jun 28, 2016)

Better eat while HOT.... if not its like trying to chew cotton


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## Chuck06R1 (Apr 7, 2015)

Since gar have been around for thousands of years and we still have lots of game fish, pretty sure they're not as much a threat as people.


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## bill (May 21, 2004)

Great catch. Had to be a lot of fun from the pier


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## acoastalbender (Jul 16, 2011)

chuck06r1 said:


> since gar have been around for *millions* of years and we still have lots of game fish, pretty sure they're not as much a threat as people.


fify ... :d

.


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## Hayniedude24 (Jun 15, 2016)

bill said:


> Great catch. Had to be a lot of fun from the pier


No doubt me from a pier, I assume your son wasn't using a 3500. Lol

Sharkchum...sharkbait? Hmm. Probably not long lost twins separated at birth?


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## sharkchum (Feb 10, 2012)

ddakota said:


> Nice fish, I agree with you in that they are good to eat, depending on where caught. Iâ€™m going to disagree with you on them being vermin eating all the game fish.....science has shown it doesnâ€™t happen enough to be a problem. Gar get a bad rap from uneducated people. They are a vital part of the ecosystem and deserve respect. Iâ€™m glad the state stepped up and instituted the 1 alligator gar per day per person limit.
> 
> Good place to get some facts and not fiction or hearsay....
> 
> http://tpwd.texas.gov/fishboat/fish/management/alligator-gar/


 Just because I don't have a degree in marine biology, does not make me uneducated. I have real world experience, something most college degree holders now days lack. While most studies on gar have been conducted in freshwater lakes, rivers, and streams, very little research has been done on gar in saltwater/ brackish water. The gar in places like Caney Creek, Halls Bayou, Dickinson bayou, and Clear creek act very different than gar from the Trinity river. While in freshwater they eat things like carp, buffalo, and shad, in salt /brackish water they feed on trout, reds, snook, and tarpon.
Any body of water can only support a certain amount of life. You can't have several different species competing for food and habitat. You can have a few of everything, or a lot of one thing, but you can't have it all. I for one would rather have my estuaries filled with trout, reds, snook, or, tarpon, than gar.
I understand most people don't have a nice trout or red snatched by a big gar before they can land it, but it happens to me all the time.
Just because a biologist writes a paper on something, does not make it a fact. Just because Texas Parks and Wildlife post's something on their web site does not make it a fact. Speaking of facts, did you know that Texas Parks and Wildlife determine what dates and locations to conduct creel surveys based on a random computer drawing. They don't use a team of biologists, or the opinions of local fishing guides, or even common sense, they have a computer throw out random dates and locations. Most of which are on the worst fishing days you can imagine, and they use this information to set our limits.
There are a lot of things in the world that the so called "experts" have got wrong. Just because you read something on the internet, or watch something on the news, does not make it a true fact. 2,000 years ago the experts said the earth was flat, now we know that was false, most of us anyway. Over 100 years ago the best engineers and ship builders in the world built a ship they said was unsinkable, but it's 2 1/2 miles down at the bottom of the Atlantic. 
I'm not trying to argue your point, I'm just trying to get you to understand that sometimes you have to question the experts, because they have been wrong in the past. 
I try to keep a open mind about things and agree with many experts on many different subjects, but when it comes down to it, I trust my own experience over everyone else.


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## Trout chaser 88 (Dec 7, 2016)

Ive seen it first hand Big gar eating trout. While fishing i hooked into a what i thought was just a gar but once the gar got close to the boat it got off and i was left with a 18 inch trout that i had hooked and the gar got a hold of.


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## Fishing Logic (Aug 25, 2005)

sharkchum said:


> Just because I don't have a degree in marine biology, does not make me uneducated. I have real world experience, something most college degree holders now days lack. While most studies on gar have been conducted in freshwater lakes, rivers, and streams, very little research has been done on gar in saltwater/ brackish water. The gar in places like Caney Creek, Halls Bayou, Dickinson bayou, and Clear creek act very different than gar from the Trinity river. While in freshwater they eat things like carp, buffalo, and shad, in salt /brackish water they feed on trout, reds, snook, and tarpon.
> Any body of water can only support a certain amount of life. You can't have several different species competing for food and habitat. You can have a few of everything, or a lot of one thing, but you can't have it all. I for one would rather have my estuaries filled with trout, reds, snook, or, tarpon, than gar.
> I understand most people don't have a nice trout or red snatched by a big gar before they can land it, but it happens to me all the time.
> Just because a biologist writes a paper on something, does not make it a fact. Just because Texas Parks and Wildlife post's something on their web site does not make it a fact. Speaking of facts, did you know that Texas Parks and Wildlife determine what dates and locations to conduct creel surveys based on a random computer drawing. They don't use a team of biologists, or the opinions of local fishing guides, or even common sense, they have a computer throw out random dates and locations. Most of which are on the worst fishing days you can imagine, and they use this information to set our limits.
> ...


Well put... and for the record Iâ€™ve caught 50 & 60 lb gar using live sand trout for bait. lol. Iâ€™ve seen gar so thick in the bayou under lights in the fall and winter that you would think you could walk across water on them.


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## Chuck06R1 (Apr 7, 2015)

sharkchum said:


> Just because I don't have a degree in marine biology, does not make me uneducated. I have real world experience, something most college degree holders now days lack. While most studies on gar have been conducted in freshwater lakes, rivers, and streams, very little research has been done on gar in saltwater/ brackish water. The gar in places like Caney Creek, Halls Bayou, Dickinson bayou, and Clear creek act very different than gar from the Trinity river. While in freshwater they eat things like carp, buffalo, and shad, in salt /brackish water they feed on trout, reds, snook, and tarpon.
> Any body of water can only support a certain amount of life. You can't have several different species competing for food and habitat. You can have a few of everything, or a lot of one thing, but you can't have it all. I for one would rather have my estuaries filled with trout, reds, snook, or, tarpon, than gar.
> I understand most people don't have a nice trout or red snatched by a big gar before they can land it, but it happens to me all the time.
> Just because a biologist writes a paper on something, does not make it a fact. Just because Texas Parks and Wildlife post's something on their web site does not make it a fact. Speaking of facts, did you know that Texas Parks and Wildlife determine what dates and locations to conduct creel surveys based on a random computer drawing. They don't use a team of biologists, or the opinions of local fishing guides, or even common sense, they have a computer throw out random dates and locations. Most of which are on the worst fishing days you can imagine, and they use this information to set our limits.
> ...


Actually, the Greek philosopher Aristotle declared the Earth was round in 350BC. He even wrote a book about it.

Just like with any other predator, population control is a must. Total eradication is actually detrimental to the ecosystem.


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## Still Learning (Nov 29, 2016)

*gar*

http://www.tackleandrods.com/lake/flash.htm check out his post from the 24th also


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## poppadawg (Aug 10, 2007)

I'm right, the experts are wrong?


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## SharkBait >*)\\\><( (May 16, 2012)

About the only thing anyone has proven in this thread is humans will continue to think we know the plan for this planet and species that live on it. We dont.


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## doublezer6 (Jun 22, 2016)

I've heard you can you sell the hide if you remove and clean properly. Anyone know the going rate, or someone that buys them? Just curious more than anything else.


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## TrueblueTexican (Aug 29, 2005)

*A poor attitude*

Alligator gar and in fact ANY fish prey on each other - if you are smaller than I am and will fit in my mouth you are dinner - your post exhibited a lack of fundamental education on the ecosystem of bays,lakes and rivers. Sure gar eat gamefish, , they also eat carp, buffalo, mullet and just about anything else that swims.

One mans "rough" fish is another mans game fish - Alligator gar don't need to be thinned out or "eradicated" lack of education on the subject species is readily apparent.

Anecdotal evidence in the field is NOT science -- I caught a "gator " speck with a smaller speck a few times when bait is scarce - maybe we should eradicate all specs over 8#s.


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## Chuck06R1 (Apr 7, 2015)

TrueblueTexican said:


> Alligator gar and in fact ANY fish prey on each other - if you are smaller than I am and will fit in my mouth you are dinner - your post exhibited a lack of fundamental education on the ecosystem of bays,lakes and rivers. Sure gar eat gamefish, , they also eat carp, buffalo, mullet and just about anything else that swims.
> 
> One mans "rough" fish is another mans game fish - Alligator gar don't need to be thinned out or "eradicated" lack of education on the subject species is readily apparent.
> 
> Anecdotal evidence in the field is NOT science -- I caught a "gator " speck with a smaller speck a few times when bait is scarce - maybe we should eradicate all specs over 8#s.


Since gator gar are ambush predators, they're not chasing down trout, reds, tarpon or any other fish for that matter. If one gets close enough to have a go at (like a tired trout on the end of a rod and reel) they'll try and eat it for sure. To think these ancient fish are decimating game fish populations is kinda funny.

What else is gonna eat all those dinks people kill fishing the lights all night long?


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## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

Maybe very naive of me, but I trust nature way more than to think alligator gar don't deserve a place here.


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## SharkBait >*)\\\><( (May 16, 2012)

i told myself i wouldn't post on this thread again but i have this to say.
I believe you are looking at this wrong its not a prehistoric vermin in need of eradicating who kept your step son from catching a reddrum, Its a prehistoric survivor who has shaped the very planet you live on by playing the role of top level predator in these waters for 147 million years. They are architects of our world.
I have random people tell me storys some of them are older people some are younger but i get told stories of how they caught or their dad caught an alligator gar as a kid or teen and how the experience left a lasting impression on their lives, just a week ago a 85 year old native american lady talked to me for 30 minutes about gar with a fiery passion in her eye recounting her childhood experience with one.
I believe your step son will tell his grandkids about that prehistoric creature he caught some day and its my hope that his grandkids still have the opportunity to catch some themselves and all gar species not be pushed into extinction by those not willing to see their crucial place in the ecosystem.


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## fishinganimal (Mar 30, 2006)

As long as TPWD continues to regulate them no chance of them going extinct. 1 per day per person is nothing unless they had $500 bounties. I bet less than 5% of fisherman would actually keep one to eat.


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## Red Roaster (Jul 9, 2006)

Nasty fish. Ive shot a bunch of them.


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## going_deep (Apr 13, 2014)

I put lights up just to shoot the gar with my .22 mag...i disregard the trout that are chasing bait


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## SharkBait >*)\\\><( (May 16, 2012)

fishinganimal said:


> As long as TPWD continues to regulate them no chance of them going extinct. 1 per day per person is nothing unless they had $500 bounties. I bet less than 5% of fisherman would actually keep one to eat.


thats not really true this is from TPWD verbatum
"Estimated sustainable harvest from the Trinity would be around 400 alligator gar 42 inches or longer of which only 60 gar can be above 70 inches"

TPWD also estimated around 100,000 anglers fish for alligator gar in the state of Texas.

Further more only large female gar over 6 foot spawn and only every 6-7 years when river conditions are perfect, there is a very real potential for the population to take a large hit in a short time if its overfished or the spawning conditions on the river are not right for a long time.

In the years i have been fishing for gator gar i have seen hundreds of examples of people breaking the 1 gator gar per day regulation or releasing gar with arrow holes in them or illegally dumping their bowfished catch back in the water after shooting it or leaving it at the ramp or bank.
There are bow tournaments that happen yearly that kill more than TPWD's estimated sustainable harvest of 400 gar a year in a single night i have pics that show hundreds of gar and thousands of years of gar growth and millions of years of genetics buried in a ditch for no reason other than bragging rights and ego stroking.

The post above this (shooting gar with a .22) depicts an illegal activity and is part of the reason i am as adamant of an advocate fore the species as i am.

It is a violation of the law, EVEN BOW FISHING, to retain gar, buffalo, carp, etc. without the intent to consume or use as bait. It is not legal to kill them with the intent to bury them on your land. They even request that Operation Game Thief be called if this activity is witnessed.
Straight from the regulations department at TPWD.

"Lawful Archery Equipment
Lawful archery equipment includes longbow, recurved bow, compound bow and crossbow
May be used to take NONGAME fish only.
Any fish that is edible or can be used for bait (includes all gar species, common carp and buffalo) may not be released back into the water after being taken with lawful archery equipment. See Waste of Fish."

"Waste of fish
It is unlawful to leave edible fish or bait fish taken from the public waters of the state to die without the intent to retain the fish for consumption or bait."

"Sec. 66.011. LEAVING FISH TO DIE. A person commits an offense if the person leaves edible fish or bait fish taken from the public waters of this state to die without the intent to retain the fish for consumption or bait."


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## SharkBait >*)\\\><( (May 16, 2012)

drops mic*


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## ShawnQ (May 21, 2004)

SharkBait >*)\\\><( said:


> The post above this (shooting gar with a .22) depicts an illegal activity and is part of the reason i am as adamant of an advocate fore the species as i am.


I am amazed people haven't learned not to post this type of ignorance...


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## going_deep (Apr 13, 2014)

SharkBait >*)\\\><( said:


> thats not really true this is from TPWD verbatum
> "Estimated sustainable harvest from the Trinity would be around 400 alligator gar 42 inches or longer of which only 60 gar can be above 70 inches"
> 
> TPWD also estimated around 100,000 anglers fish for alligator gar in the state of Texas.
> ...


They make such good fertilizer for my marijuana plants though.....

On a serious note i guess you couldn't get the sarcasm in my post.....im glad youre so passionate about gar, i personally just dont give a f*** about them one way or another


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## SharkBait >*)\\\><( (May 16, 2012)

look at you, you back pedalled faster than Yeti coolers


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## going_deep (Apr 13, 2014)

SharkBait >*)\\\><( said:


> look at you, you back pedalled faster than Yeti coolers


No back peddling here....like i said i dont give a **** about them either way. If they disappear from our waters im pretty sure mankind wont perish from earth.


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## Csafisher (Nov 16, 2010)

SharkBait >*)\\\><( said:


> look at you, you back pedalled faster than Yeti coolers


sarÂ·casm:

noun
the use of irony to mock or convey contempt.


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## sharkchum (Feb 10, 2012)

SharkBait >*)\\\><( said:


> thats not really true this is from TPWD verbatum
> "Estimated sustainable harvest from the Trinity would be around 400 alligator gar 42 inches or longer of which only 60 gar can be above 70 inches"
> 
> TPWD also estimated around 100,000 anglers fish for alligator gar in the state of Texas.
> ...


I can understand that you want to protect gar, because you exploit them for money, but where are you getting your so called facts from. Do you really believe TPWD?
You say the alligator gar can't spawn until they reach 6', that's a flat out lie. I've killed hundreds of alligator gar in the 4' to 6' range that were full of eggs. The so called experts say that a female alligator gar can't spawn until around 10 years of age. They also say that by 5 years old a alligator gar will be around 4' long. So, according to the so called experts, a 4' long 5 year old female alligator gar can not spawn, but they do. That leads me to believe that one of these so called facts are wrong, and if one is wrong, then the other is probably wrong to. 
What about age? Some of the experts say that gar can live to be up to 40 years old, while others say they can live to be over 100. How do you decide who is right and who is wrong? Do you just pick the so called facts that fit your agenda? Are you sure gar have been around for 147 million years, maybe its 146 million, or even 200 million. You don't know, your just going by something you read somewhere. 
Please understand that I'm not attacking you personally. I actually respect you as a fisherman, even if we don't agree on everything. I think its great that you have found something you love to do, and have put forth the effort to become one of the best gar fishermen in Texas. I actually enjoy watching your videos, and think you have catching big gar down to a art form. But, at the same time I can't agree with your beliefs, because they contradict what I see with my own eyes year after year.


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## SharkBait >*)\\\><( (May 16, 2012)

Oldest alligator gar on record was 86 years old its science, its fact. 
One was aged at 64 years old last year at 7 foot 4 inches long last year by TPWD. A female gar will reach 6 foot in about 20 years again from TPWD and proven by the death of thousands of gar killed in TPWD studies, falcon lake is one of the few places where they grow faster due to temperatures and bait abundance. 
I have dumped 30 grand into protecting and catching the species i have placed 300 tags in the last 3 years at my own expense on gar over 4 foot, i am for sure not making money or exploiting the species, its actually the opposite.
i starting doing what i do with the one and only goal being the conservation of alligator gar. 
This is not about me its bigger than that, its about the fish they are the ones pulling the strings they have for the last 20 years put the ball in certain peoples courts to see what they could do to help the species and those people have shied away from the responsibilities the gar asked them to do and instead just inflated their egos and filled their pockets. 
The gar this year have passed me the ball repeatedly i keep landing giants even more than i would think possible they are looking to see what i or those who fish with me can do to help their conservation. Like putting one of the largest fishing YouTubers on a 8 foot fish with the message of conservation behind it a week or two ago, Im blessed in that way to be able to have a larger voice than i could have by myself, blessed to have others with big voices see the merit in what im doing and add to it and make it their own.

It was not very long ago sturgeon were being killed off for caviar, no one ever thought you wouldn't be able to harvest them and look where we are now their numbers have rebounded and they enjoy protection from harvest just about everywhere. Sturgeon species have been on the planet for over 205 million years and again are architects of our world just like the alligator gar.
Alligator gar will mirror the protection sturgeon have and it will not be long the gar who are dying until it happens are collateral damage their purpose is to bring about that conservation by outraging those who would like to see their children's children inherit a better planet than the one we were born unto.
This is about life, its about the balance of our planet, its about the mathematics behind the flower of life and the web that connects all living things to each other. 
We will never know how decisively crucial alligator gar were to the amazing fisheries and ecosystems they created and managed for us for millions of years until they are no longer there.
How i treat the gar i catch, how i target them, how i handle them in the water is the future for the species i may be a few years ahead of my time to those who are still stuck in the passed but that is on them and not me or the alligator gar species.


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## BBCAT (Feb 2, 2010)

While I respect both Bait and Chums abilities at their passion of the outdoors. I believe mother nature knows best. I do not like to see waste of fish in any form, whether it's shad dumped on the bank from someone cast netting for bait, dead sharks and rays at a tournament or gar dumped for whatever reason. If the gar are there it's because an abundance of food. When that balance tips the other way they will die off or move on.


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## Oyster Dog (May 21, 2005)

TPWD says they reach maturity between 950 and 1400 mm length (that 3.1 feet and 4.6 feet), which agrees with your own observations.

https://tpwd.texas.gov/publications/nonpwdpubs/media/gar_status_073108.pdf


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## ronnie leblanc jr (Jan 9, 2010)

Nice fish.


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## Category6 (Nov 21, 2007)

I held the IGFA record for 20# line for around 8 years starting in around '90. I have caught quite a few to say the least, and I've kept and cleaned quite a few, and I've never once found anything in their stomach, not once. Not sure what that amounts to but I don't think they are eating all our gamefish TBH. Last big one was in a canal off lake pontchartrain and I'd guess was 225#, she swam away just fine!


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