# 38 egg harbor/Pacemaker



## steelshot2 (Feb 8, 2011)

Looking at 38' EggHarbor/pacemaker 72 sport fish sedan. Looking for advice things to look out for. Having survey done soon. Likes or dislikes, things to change,add , remove etc. has on it cummins 6bta's and westerbeke genie 10kw
2 ac's . Electronic's are ray marine from 80's to 90ish. Whole new area for me. So I'm reaching out to the blue water world.


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## Empty Pockets CC (Feb 18, 2009)

Year model 1972? 
On a boat like this be warned in advance that it will take up time and a lot of money. 
On the cummins 6bta's make sure that the boat is not over propped. Check to see how much blow by is puking down in the bilge. Check service records on the engines. Where is the boat coming from?
Do not spend your hard earned dollars on a nightmare unless you want to. With engines idling unscrew the oil filler cap...if cap won't stay put MOVE ON. Repower with cummins cost me about 45k without gears. Careful. Age does things to all things mechanical and electrical.


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## owens33 (May 2, 2007)

motors sound a little light. i have 6bta 270's in my 33', honest cruise speed loaded in the gulf is about 18 to 19 kts. i can run 22, but egt is pretty high. 6b's go up to 370, but that's pushing it pretty hard. i'd rather see c model 450's in a boat that size. but if you're cruising and not in a hurry, who cares. back in those days they didn't know how thick to make fiberglass boats, so they made '
em like wood boats. the hulls are very thick, tough and heavy.


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## bigfishtx (Jul 17, 2007)

Are those cummins the 370's?


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## tinyj (Jul 7, 2013)

you don't mention the HP of the Cummins 6BTA's and although the hull design on the Egg's and Pacemakers is a low deadrise semi-v shape, its still a heavy boat. Around 30k lbs I think. If they're close to 400 HP then you should have a respectable cruise speed (20-22 knots) if less then probably only 17 or 18. You might be okay with that slower speed anyway because that hull design won't give you the same cushy ride as a deep-v in our typical choppy gulf waters. I would make sure the boat has ample fuel capacity for your intended use. A good surveyor should find most but not all problems before you buy. Remember, anything that needs fixing, and I do mean anything, is gonna cost you a ton of money unless you do it yourself and then it'll still be twice what you think. Pay particular attention to fuel tank condition and capacity, the auto pilot (expensive) and steering gear, trim tab operation, and of course the engines. Electronics are another area that can cost serious money so, unless you're prepared to replace them very soon I'd make sure everything's ship shape in that area as well. A surveyor will generally not look into electronics any farther than to say it "appears" to be functional. Plan on sleeping aboard quite a bit until you get everything sorted out


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## samh (Oct 13, 2011)

steelshot2 said:


> Having survey done soon.


 Before you take that step to a bigger boat consider everything the survey reveals. What will it cost and how long it will take to work thru the punch list and what your choice of electronics will cost. Also how long are you willing to wait to have a safe sea worthy boat.

I would never discourage anyone from wanting to own a bigger boat they can fish offshore, but I would encourage anyone that wants to make that step to take a realistic look at the true cost of ownership. Usually finding an older boat you think fits your budget will break your bankroll quicker than a boat with a purchase price twice or three times higher.

Good luck and follow that dream. Its a great feeling leaving the jetties behind at the helm of your own boat. Especially with a couple good buds who are splitting the fuel bill.


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## steelshot2 (Feb 8, 2011)

*38 Egg*

Hp is 300. 1200 hrs. Engine room clean. Cruise is 18 kts top is 26kts. 700 g on fuel cap.
Idle and cruised great. Pulling boat out of water Friday. Bottom and props cleaned. Currently to appear seaworthy and fishing ready. Interior needs new carpet and and canvas on top. Electronics all worked including radar. Ac blowed cold. no exhaust leaks. Very little smoke at start up, and went away by time we cleared marina. They claim 6 to 8 on gph . The frequently went 60 miles offshore. Getting new gps right away. On blow back I will check this weekend. Bilge look great. Found a drip leaking port side exhaust discharge. No Egt temp gauge. What is a good temp for egt? Under 1200 ?That also will be added soon . bilge was dry. New exterior paint done top and bottom a year ago. Props were not treated. teak and mag looked great. Was really impressed overall condition. Most we had looked at we're scary. Like the owners just gave up. Kinda worried about the thru hull fittings. Will check out and clean after coolers and heat exchangers. And maybe add the envirovent from Sbmar.com. And air cleaners. Outriggers need to be placed back on. Will need a new name for boat. All contingent on survey of course. How do you check for over propping ?


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## tinyj (Jul 7, 2013)

*"How do you check for over propping ?"*

make sure the engines reach full rated rpm + 50 or so with a full load of fuel, people and gear. If they don't then you're over propped or the engines are tired. I'm gonna take a guess and say GPH at cruise @18 knots will be close to 12 or 13 per engine with a full load.


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## steelshot2 (Feb 8, 2011)

*38 Egg*

Also generator needs to be rebuilt. That will be ASAP.power steering hoses needs to be replaced looked new but corrosion on the ends were qustionable. No gps on board. Or live well or coolers. And no real anchor too speak of. new zincs last year. And port side water pump replaced. Major issue to be figured out is all the fresh water plumbing has been disabled. Blackwater and gray and fresh currently not in use. Tanks have been plugged.


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## bigfishtx (Jul 17, 2007)

I ran those engines for years. Make sure top rpm is 2800. Cruise should be 2400-2500. They should run 185-190 degrees at cruise. 

Some of the early 300's were prone to drop valves and were done at 1000 hrs.

Be very careful buying that boat. You could learn an expensive lesson.


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## Empty Pockets CC (Feb 18, 2009)

bigfishtx said:


> I ran those engines for years. Make sure top rpm is 2800. Cruise should be 2400-2500. They should run 185-190 degrees at cruise.
> 
> Some of the early 300's were prone to drop valves and were done at 1000 hrs.
> 
> Be very careful buying that boat. You could learn an expensive lesson.


Ran the 330 6bta. We propped them at 2950 rpm wide open throttle. Best rpm range for fuel was 2200-2400. You can push them to 2600 if you want. Make sure it's not over propped! Over propping is the number one issue for 6bta failure. I did learn the hard way! A costly lesson. 
Sounds like you already have a laundry list of issues. From what you've mentioned you are already up to hours of time and multiple thousands of dollars. Be careful! Btw the surveyors don't catch everything.


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## BOATMAN (Jun 25, 2012)

*40 year old boat*

Be very cautious of a boat that old. I have run big boats 3o plus years old and they can be a nightmare. lots of things to breakdown,and can cost much money to fix. I have owned 3 offshore boats and I now have a 26 center console and it cost to keep it dependable and safe. Good luck with You venture.


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## tropicalsun (May 21, 2004)

I ran this one, a '73, for a couple years in Kona. It was powered with Naturally aspirated 3208 Cats, old and slow. It did not like a following sea at all! Honestly, the boat was lots of trouble. Not to discourage you, but you have received some very good advise on this thread. Proceed with caution!


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## TOM WEBER (Aug 14, 2005)

An engine survey is in order in addition to hull survey. Assume all hoses need to be replaced. They need to be done every 5 years anyway. I would pull and reseat thru hulls if not done in last 10 years. Are rudders and shafts original. Would not want 40 year old shafts on boat. Again...survey survey survey with a quality well known guy..Mike Firestone is a guy I am familiar with. Have been on both sides with him. He is fair and thorough.


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## kinja (May 21, 2004)

Best advise is the money is in the iron. Boat is worthless without good motors. Still not worth more than 20k even with good iron. You will spend that on a new electronic package. You will replace the electronics. Working 15-25 yr old electronics add nothing to sales price. If generator is over 15 yrs old, replace, don't rebuild. 

Age isn't as big a deal as some make it out, as long as it's maintained well. Good motors, running gear, fix the stuff that is safety related and stuff that let's you catch fish. Paint covers up a crappy boat and doesn't catch fish. 700 fuel gallons seems high for that size, but maybe. Disconnected plumbing not a big deal unless no access to replace or replumb. 

Wiring condition? Could be a deal killer unless it's clean and or updated.


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## owens33 (May 2, 2007)

i'm not gonna say 26 kts is an outright lie, but it would need to be in the absolute lightest, cleanest condition, with a tail currnet of 3 kts and a tail wind. i mean 20 gallons of fuel and one skinny guy. my boat has the same motors with 60 total less hp, maybe 2 thirds the weight and it wont make 26 in those conditions. best i've ever seen is 25.6 on gps. also, suspicious of the burn rate #s.


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## steelshot2 (Feb 8, 2011)

*Little bit of an update*

38 Egg. Is coming out of the water, in the morning. Survey is being done next week. Tanks were measured out to be actually 150's and a 100gal generator tank. Agree with y'all on speed and fuel burn. If survey passes for us. Bottom job will be started along with thru hulls changed out . Cutlass bearings, generator put back in. Removing old diesel out of the little tank and cleaning. New transducer and trims tabs cleaned. Bilge area in the engine room was surprisingly clean. very little puke. Motors start and sound great. Motor mount brackets being fitted now. Among many other things. Hope to have some pics up soon. New t-top canvas ordered, new hoses to be made next week. If anybody has an old fighting chair or pedestal rocket launcher sitting around. We are looking for either. Motors checked out fairly well. They said it needs a couple injectors cleaned or to be checked. Maybe valve or rocker arm adjusted. Will go through fully before purchasing. Then hopefully a sea trial with real data. Taken it out twice. Still thinking doable for project boat. Not scared off yet. Maybe I'm crazy.


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## tinyj (Jul 7, 2013)

*Eh?*

you're paying for all this work _before_ you buy it??? Did I read that correctly?


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## steelshot2 (Feb 8, 2011)

*Egg update*

No not paying for parts yet. Some things we have bought can go on any boat we buy. Mounts are to be made once we make decision. But have called around to to check people schedule out when they can do everything.Paying for survey owner paid to have boat lifted. Boat was lifted pics coming. once I figure out how. KEYWORD If survey passes...


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## steelshot2 (Feb 8, 2011)

*38 Egg*

Short video boat being lifted and rinsed off.

http://mail.aol.com/webmail/getPart?uid=28025383&partId=2&saveAs=IMG_3526.3gp

Hope it checks out.


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## steelshot2 (Feb 8, 2011)

*Bow pic*

Bow pic


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## steelshot2 (Feb 8, 2011)

*Stern pic*

Stern


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## steelshot2 (Feb 8, 2011)

*Video*

Video ended up on other page. Not sure how that happened.

http://mail.aol.com/webmail/getPart?uid=28025383&partId=2&saveAs=IMG_3526.3gp


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## tinyj (Jul 7, 2013)

looks like all the pieces are there and in the right place. Nothing bent or broken but I'm sure all that growth on the running gear would slow you down quite a bit. Hopefully after she's all cleaned up your speed trials will produce the desired results. Just an FYI, if you _do_ need to re-prop a new set of wheels will run you about 3k and, I'd be looking for another boat anyway if that one's been run in an over propped condition. The extra load on the engines will shorten their life considerably and new ones? well, you don't want to go there. Good luck and here's hoping it all works out well for you. Hoping to see all the pics soon.


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## steelshot2 (Feb 8, 2011)

*Over propping*

So when I run the fat Egg later. Looking out for overpropping. How will I know?
Too many rpm's or not enough?


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## tinyj (Jul 7, 2013)

Not enough rpm. Should run at least 2850 wide open throttle and 2900 would be even better.


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## Empty Pockets CC (Feb 18, 2009)

I second the advice on looking past this one if the engines don't turn up to 2900 rpm wot. Over propping leads to a short death on the 6bta's. 
Are there airseps installed on these motors? How much blowby? Is the bilge oily from the oil puking? Also, don't run more than 12 quarts of oil in them. The 6bta's have a very shallow oil pan and don't like to be overfilled. Owned two sets of these motors. One set was over propped and had to be rebuilt. PM me if you like some help as to what to look for before buying this boat. They're great simple motors all in all.


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## steelshot2 (Feb 8, 2011)

*Survey done today*

Ok so survey was this morning. Funny thing the surveyor we had do it. Was the same guy that did it in 2003. Lou he was great. Came on the holiday little before 7am, was hard at it when we got there after 12 noon. Main things he found auxiliary tank was rusted and weeping diesel at a seam. I apparently missed that. Also the port prop shaft had two spots chipped out . So prop shaft needs replacing, new tank and bottom job. Cutlass, rudders, packing gland of course would be done. If we decide to purchase. No blistering! Overall he gave a decent bill of health. He also said her bones were solid and dry. Did say I needed to check out a spot around bow pulpit. He thinks it's minor. There was other stuff on the list but we already knew about it. Now time to think about it and sea trial again this time with higher rpm's now the the props and rudders are clean. Would like to see 2900 +mark. Y'all's advice has been very valuable. Taking it slow thru the process. It's hard not rush things knowing winds should be laying down soon. Here is the problem.
1. Do I negotiate now and then do the work if bought. We ran her pretty good last time.but props were all junked up. She ran strong. But didn't try to pass 2400 because the props 
2. Put her back in for trial, then take her back out to do the work? If purchased.
I'm sure I know the answer . Even if I'm confident how she will do. the what if factor kicks in. Murphy's Law sort of thing.


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## tinyj (Jul 7, 2013)

Yup! you guessed it, run it first and don't be bashful, you'll want to see 2850 or 2900 rpm and keep it on the pins for 15 minutes minimum to make sure it won't overheat. Go into the engine room while running hard and check for leaks, blow-by and check oil pressure, etc. After that if you're satisfied with the results you can get estimates on any repairs and negotiate the price downwards from there. I recommend you contract with a reputable yard (get estimates) for the repairs instead of letting the owner make repairs. That way you'll know it was done right.


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## Empty Pockets CC (Feb 18, 2009)

You fix the problems. You ask owner for credit at closing. He won't be willing to fix cosmetic issues most likely (can't hurt to ask though). He should be more than willing to fix the items "that he would NEED to get fixed" before he could go fishing offshore. MAKE SURE THOSE ENGINES ARENT WORN OUT. You will not like the rebuild bill. Good luck!


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## Fisheramen (Jun 28, 2010)

Dude.
Whatever you pay for it, plan to spend another $75 to $100K. I have lived this and have detailed records I will share with you. Send me a PM if you are interested. 


Also, why not a Bertram? First time I had to come home in 8' following sea made me very appreciative of the full boat length deep vee.


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## jared885ad (May 13, 2013)

I am 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk


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## Fisheramen (Jun 28, 2010)

Hi Jared, 
Assuming you are referring to my statement about expense records. 
Tell me what you'd like to know?


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## steelshot2 (Feb 8, 2011)

*Bought the Egg*

Ok guys small update with big news. My son was born on Saturday ,emergency c-section and a premie and weighing in 6.8 lbs. so you can see I been a little busy with other stuff. All right here goes. We bought the Egg shortly after the good news of the surveyor. All ready started many projects. Unfortunately I'm doing what work I can from the house. Such as after coolers , trans cooler etc. water pump to be next. Jeff ordered the t-top cover and tint on windows and electronics and including transducer. Bottom job started. All new zincs intalled everywhere. Thru hulls are done and old plumbing rip out. Day tank drained of 8 year old diesel for generator. Started rebuilding Gennie. VOutriggers cleaned. Making a new teak rod holder and cup holders. to go where fighting chair was. Live well is next and raw water washdown and underwater lights. Engine cleaned and dry vac out. Old floor ripped out. New floor about to be made for Bennie and batteries. Pics to come soon. gotta help momma breast pump. Perfect time to start a project I know. My dad and buddy jeff have there work cut out for them. Get to work guys momma wants it ready by the fourth of July. Oh new carpet or teak floor yet to be decided. Need a westerbeke dealer for parts if anybody knows of one local.


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## Highflier (Jun 22, 2006)

Lakewood Yacht Service in Seabrook can get you set for Westerbeke parts.


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## Empty Pockets CC (Feb 18, 2009)

Performance diesel in Webster also has westerbroke parts. I have a westerbroke so I can call them that. Good luck!


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## tinyj (Jul 7, 2013)

*Summer Fun*

So, I guess the final sea trial went okay or you wouldn't be writing about all the projects you're working on  Get used to it LOL! and welcome to the world of live aboard boat maintenance. You'll likely have a new project every week for as long as you own it but, as long as you get to use it and enjoy being out on the water its a great way to spend time away from the office. Also, not a bad thing that you'll become very familiar with every square inch of your new home. Now is the time to fix all those little things that could cause trouble before they become major problems. Here's some advice on boat carpeting, its a PITA and, it holds moisture. There's several products on the market that have the look of teak and holly but are actually man made products, I'd go with one of those instead of carpet any day. As long as you have adequate sound deadening material under the salon floor you'll be much happier with the faux-teak stuff. Easy to clean and looks really nice. As for the 4th of July completion date, you meant next year right  Good luck and keep the updates coming.


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## Swells (Nov 27, 2007)

Long as your thru-hulls are tight and your breast pumps ain't leakin', you're livin' large capt.









I did work a boat where the capt threw away the fighting chair and put in what he called a "Florida 6-pack." That's 6 rod holders on a central tray with cup holders and a tool tray, really nice. I was working the troll and kite fishing and for a seat I used a big Igloo cooler. You guessed it, the beer box. I was pretty fast so I'd pull the pole, set the hook, and handed it to whoever had a fighting belt on. Kinda hard around all them lines but most of the folks want a standup fight these days. Glad you make the move.


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## king_bullet (Mar 20, 2013)

Congratulations all the way around. Sounds like y'all are really knocking it out on the egg. We're shooting for 1st of August on the 35 Bert and possibly getting less accomplished repair wise. Just in the water and capable of getting out the jetties and back to figure out what it needs over winter. Keep it up.


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## tinyj (Jul 7, 2013)

Sorry, I forgot to mention that congratulations were in order, hope all are doing well.


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## steelshot2 (Feb 8, 2011)

*Bottom job done*

​Ok Jeff and my Dad have really picked up my slack. I have only made 3 trips down there. Bottom job is finished and back in the water . Ripped out the stove and microwave and frige cabinets. New engine mount saddles and all new thru hulls valves and sea strainers. Still trying to figure out about the generator its a westerbeke. Window tint being done to today. After coolers finally put back on. new Electronics installed. Canvas guy didn't show up today. Ugh... It seems overall people down here have no concept of urgency or being on time or get the right day. Tick tock fellas. Jeff has been amazing by keeping me grounded and sane. Jeff owns a pool company in cypress and his phone never stops ringing. Our conversations usually last a minute max and ends with I will have to call you back. Point is he still is able to keep the project moving forward. Between old maintenance and remodeling. It's coming around. Enough talk some pics now. Oh thanks guys. Baby boy is eating and $&@! All the time and doing great.


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## tinyj (Jul 7, 2013)

glad to hear all is going well, just be sure to keep your checkbook handy. Sounds as though you may be fishing before the end of the season after all. What's up with the genny? Wont start and run or no juice? There's lots of sensors on that unit that will automatically shut it down for a number of reasons. Anyway, now that you have your engines back together and electronics installed on a clean bottom you can fix the other stuff while using the boat. Seems like we need to fix something after almost every trip B.O.A.T. Its a disease I think but we enjoy it or we wouldn't do it. Keep after it and you'll get there.


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## KJJeff (Jun 25, 2014)

You should really give yourself some more credit. Considering that y'all were 9 months preggo when we started this adventure, I think you have done an awesome job on the KJ.


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## steelshot2 (Feb 8, 2011)

*finally some pics*

Hey TinyJ The gennie doesn't have compression. 
hey king fish send some pics.


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## steelshot2 (Feb 8, 2011)

*more pics*

after coolers before and after


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## steelshot2 (Feb 8, 2011)

*yuck*

glad I checked them and replaced and cleaned both motors!


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## steelshot2 (Feb 8, 2011)

*scuppers replacement? any clue what brand that is*

check pics from earlier post. anybody knows what brand that is? or suggest a better replacement. like sea block maybe.


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## snapperlicious (Aug 11, 2009)

Hope you got a really good deal. Looks like you got your work cut out for ya. Good luck!


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## Empty Pockets CC (Feb 18, 2009)

steelshot2 said:


> check pics from earlier post. anybody knows what brand that is? or suggest a better replacement. like sea block maybe.


Had a similar scupper setup on my Blackfin. I removed them and cut out the scupper so that Cabo flap style scuppers would fit. I was pleased with the results. Just an avenue that you could go.


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## owens33 (May 2, 2007)

i just have holes with no flaps. water comes in and goes back out


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