# Lease To Avoid If You Want To Have Fun!!!!!!



## cj9271 (Aug 24, 2004)

Duval county,1600 acres, lease manager Bill Frazier, ranch owner James Baker (nice guy). I'm a little irritated with the lease manager since the rules state you can harvest 1-140"mature buck, 1-spike mature, and 1-doe young. If you even think about taking 1 of those animals then you are frowned upon. They have no fun at all. He does not trust anybody. He is psycho and he smokes in the house at 4:30 in the morning. You have to call before you go down there(what's up with that?) This so called friend begged me to get on this place back in August. I told him I did not have time since I manage 4600 acres in Edwards county, well he talked me into it. I only made a couple of trips down there during the season to hunt, mostly I worked there before season. He wanted me to help him out with feeding suggestions and managing the herd to have quality bucks. Well after deer season started it all changed. He did not want anybody there without him there, he discouraged shooting deer that were under 150", he thinks all deer are 3-1/2 years old. He is just a complete miserable moron. I just needed to vent and warn anybody who might come across this place for next year.


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## Dunc (May 29, 2004)

He's far from the only "lease manager" that is completely full of sh#t.

They are worsse than dealing directly with the landowner.

Frazier has several listings on DeerTexas.com


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## BEER4BAIT (Jun 24, 2005)

His management is textbook wanabee. I was on a lease like that in reverse, No does well that's all we ever saw, out of 22 hunters only one buck was killed. The manager said how can we have deer if you kill the mamas. A mind is a terible thing to waist.


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## Fish-a-mon (May 21, 2004)

sounds to me like you and the others need to talk to the land owner about the manager. I would bet the manager Day hunted it also.


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## BEER4BAIT (Jun 24, 2005)

Fish that's what I'm thinking if he lives the closest to the lease.


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## boom! (Jul 10, 2004)

Probably why he wants a call before you show up?


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## Bucksnort (Jun 29, 2004)

i've hunted with guys that were triggerphobic. In fact I have caught myself falling into the same trap. It does take the fun out of it when there is pressure *not* to pull the trigger. Take care of your heard and what does it matter. I am against killing young deer but I have to remind myself sometimes that this is deer hunting and I can't let myself get worked up too much on the animals taken off the ranch. It is really hard to put a group together where everyone likes the rules or has the same ideas when it comes to what deer to take. I don't think it ever can be totally accomplished.


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## Buck Master (Oct 19, 2004)

Sure sounds like something fishy going on there!


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## cj9271 (Aug 24, 2004)

The lease I manage in Edwards county has 15 people on it, I have managed it for 5 years now and I pursuade my hunters including myself and my family to harvest the animals that need to be taken. Not shooting anything will harm the herd. The lease manager I referred to does not live real close but the land owner does and the lease manager will not let anybody talk to or communicate with him. Heck he does not even want the other hunters communicating except thru him. CONTROL FREAK


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## boom! (Jul 10, 2004)

Stop leasing from him and the owner will make him go away.


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## cj9271 (Aug 24, 2004)

I left my keys on the table last Friday and loaded up all my stuff, I couldn't even stand to go back for the last weekend of season.


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## baldhunter (Oct 8, 2004)

Don't you know the reason he wants you to call before you come down?It's so he and his buddies know when they can hunt the place at your expense.Believe it or not there is a lot of that kinda stuff that goes on.I think I'd make a few surprise visits and see what's really going on.


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## BEER4BAIT (Jun 24, 2005)

You know your on a bad lease when you have to call before you hunt. I hope you got to kill something and better luck next year.


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## Bucksnort (Jun 29, 2004)

Cj, is this guy the lease manager or the lease leader?...on our place we have both. We are not allowed to talk with the ranch owner about the rules. This is what the owner is paying the manager to do...so he(owner) doesn't have to deal with the group and everyones complaint or ideas, just one person. As a group we deal with the lease leader, he deals with the lease manager and the lease manager deals with the ranch owner. The lease leader is part of our hunting group and does not profit off of us. He is just the enforcer. If you have a jerk land owner the manager can be a good buffer zone. The key is a good manager,,don't sound like this guy is one of them. We have to call during the off season when we go up to fill feeders but never during deer season.


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## ROOSTER REDCHASER (Feb 25, 2005)

sounds like you are getting hosed......and he is a male organ !


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## t-tung (Nov 13, 2005)

had something similar happen on a lease in zapata... long story short the landowners werent getting their money and we ended up getting locked IN the lease on a weekend. then the guy that assumed "lease manager" position was a complete idiot. werent allowed to take any does and spikes needed time to mature no matter what age. shady situation...thomas


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## cj9271 (Aug 24, 2004)

There WAS only 4 people on the lease. Bill being the (lease manager) and 3 of us that are suppose to bow down to him. He has known the owner for about 25 years. Bills dad ran the lease up to about 5 years ago when he had to step down because of health issues and just recently passed away. If the land owner told Bill to do a back flip into the campfire, Bill would ask how many flips. All the crud started because I was there by myself sitting in a stand all day at the beginning of the season when the owner showed to hunt the stand I was in. Well he called Bill and the S**t hit the fan. Bill was waiting in my neighborhood when I got home and accused me of shooting something I wasn't suppose to. Last Friday after I could not take anymore of this guys horrible attitude I did shoot an 8 pt, 19" spread, 7 1/2 yrs old and dressed at a mackdaddy 179 lbs. I chose not to shoot the other deer that the rules STATES that we were allowed to shoot. I've lived and I've learned. Bill does alot of manual labor there but has no business managing a whitetail herd or a lease.


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## garrettryan (Oct 11, 2004)

It is very important to have somewhere that is going to let you be who you are, everyone makes a mistake, and has to ground check a few before knowing it is a mistake.. It happens.. Lets not be trigger weary. Lets just try to be responsible.. Everyone should be happy when someone kills a buck, not scared to bring it in.. That is EXACTLY what gets deer dumped in ditches, hidden and WASTED.... Congragulate someone on their kill, they know if it was too small, or not what they really wanted, and hope they improve.. 3rd mistake.. buy em some glasses or glue their trigger shut


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## BEER4BAIT (Jun 24, 2005)

The owner hunted your stand? No way! I would request my $$ back at that point. What a Mickey Mouse lease. That's about the worse I've heard.


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## cj9271 (Aug 24, 2004)

That is exactly the attitude I take with my place in Edwards county. If someone shoots an animal that should not have been shot, I don't take it personal, I try to teach them from their mistake. 3 strikes, sorry the lessons are over. We have alot of children on our place that are starting to hunt and it is a blast to teach them right from wrong. You can't learn if you don't first make mistakes.


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## Swampus (Sep 1, 2005)

Do you smell that--------it's fish! We had a place 15yrs. in Junction day hunted while we were gone. When about 5 stands in the front changed to No PET Does--Call b4 ya come!--next weekend pulled out 35 stands and all the trimmins!--We did talk to the owner (managers SON) seemed to help some--finnally 2 much to bear! c ya! I loved that place--now I will cry some.

(sorry 4 the hijack)


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## rio frio (Jan 12, 2005)

*wow*

it has to be bill frazier from texas city. his daddy had that lease for around 30 years ,he used to work for welch bros


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## Dunc (May 29, 2004)

rio frio said:


> it has to be bill frazier from texas city. his daddy had that lease for around 30 years ,he used to work for welch bros


It is, he had an opening for 1 more person on that Duval lease on DeerTexas. I e-mailed him about the opening. Yikkes!


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## cj9271 (Aug 24, 2004)

That is the same person. I don't mean to bag on the guy personally but his lease manager skills are in dire need. He will have an opening this coming season also for the next sucker willing to be a major kissa**!!!!!!!!


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## DeerTexas (Dec 5, 2004)

I'm confused, Dunc. I just looked and there are no ads from Bill Frazier on our website. Was this was some time ago? 
Scott-


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## fishdoc1 (May 22, 2004)

W.A. Frazier 2000/gun Date Added/Modified: 12/26/05

elec & water, looking for 1 honest, easy going, trophy hunter to join us, if you are a shooter, don't respond, we want someone who resides in the south Houston-Galveston area only, bowhunters welcome, call or email [email protected]


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## Bucksnort (Jun 29, 2004)

hmmm, kinda strange you have to live in his neck of the woods to be on the lease...what?? does he need a ride or something? Cj, what do you mean you don't mean to bag on the guy personally? Man, you ripped out his colon dude. You can't back down now. I wanna see a pic of that brute you killed.


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## rio frio (Jan 12, 2005)

*that leaves me out*

I'm a shooter


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## cj9271 (Aug 24, 2004)

I know I was kind of rough on him. Will post pics when I retrieve my camera from motorhome in Bracketttville. Yes he told me he did run ad with deertexas but only morons responded that lived too far away and were not willing to kiss his a**. As far as his ad saying (trophy hunter), there was 3 deer killed off the place inthe 80's that scored right at 140. his way of managing is to not shoot anything, even hogs, you can only shoot 2 hogs.


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## wet dreams (May 21, 2004)

A lock and hasp for a stand is under 10$ and also when you started having problems and knowing you were'nt comming back I would have taken what ever would have made me feel better, I mean after all whats he gonna do send you to Iraq?? WW


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## cj9271 (Aug 24, 2004)

There were locks on all stands and the landowner had keys to them all. Nobody was supposed to hunt your main stand without permission but every time I was there this season somebody had been in mine. I always left things certain ways just for that reason and they were always moved. My game camera also came up not working with battery unhooked inside.


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## boom! (Jul 10, 2004)

CJ, It sure sounds like you have had a bad experience all the way around with this guy. Thanks for bringing it up so as to maybe keep someone else from giving this guy any buisness. As expensive as it is to harvest deer these days, no one deserves this kind of experience. Jeff


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## txdougman (Jul 12, 2005)

I smell a rat. Sounds all too familiar. Hey, if the guy needs help with feeding suggestions and management, then he's fighting a losing battle. It ain't rocket science. Good luck finding another place CJ.


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## rio frio (Jan 12, 2005)

*cj*

does that auto parts store going in to bracketville still charge 1.00/day to store your camper?


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## cj9271 (Aug 24, 2004)

Rio I am not sure because I keep mine at the property so the illegals have somewhere to get their food and blankets from. HaHa


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## Cool Arrow (Oct 31, 2005)

haha...i had responded to that ad last year but got a bad vibe from that guy on the phone. He sounded like a major a-hole. Good luck to you


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## DeerTexas (Dec 5, 2004)

*W.A. Frazier*

That ad has now been removed from our website. Please consider posting any current or future complaints on our feedback forum at http://www.deertexas.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum;f=2 . Thanks. Scott-


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## B-Money (May 2, 2005)

Would more public hunting land in Texas give these private land managers less leverage?


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## Fish-a-mon (May 21, 2004)

To fix that guy, shoot a yearling with spots. A young 10 point and tell him to take a hike. Them samll one eat very well. You must take all types to manage your herd. OF course taking the young 10pt would be just to **** them off.


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## James Howell (May 21, 2004)

99% of this state is privately owned. I don't see landowners opening up their gates to allow free public hunting anytime soon. The solution is to be REAL cautious and selective when choosing a lease, and preferrably deal direct with the landowner.



Bobby Miller said:


> Would more public hunting land in Texas give these private land managers less leverage?


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## El Cazador (Mar 4, 2005)

Fish-a-mon said:


> To fix that guy, shoot a yearling with spots. A young 10 point and tell him to take a hike. Them samll one eat very well. You must take all types to manage your herd. OF course taking the young 10pt would be just to **** them off.


I know I've wanted to p-off a lease manager/landowner or two in the past, but it isn't the young 10 points fault that the guy is a jerk.

Sounds like if you really want to get at this guys goat... shoot everything that the contract says that you can.


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## ELF62 (Dec 24, 2004)

Dang that souds like the Corp. that I work for. Not judging but that sure sounds more like a buisness than a deer lease.hwell:



Bucksnort said:


> Cj, is this guy the lease manager or the lease leader?...on our place we have both. We are not allowed to talk with the ranch owner about the rules. This is what the owner is paying the manager to do...so he(owner) doesn't have to deal with the group and everyones complaint or ideas, just one person. As a group we deal with the lease leader, he deals with the lease manager and the lease manager deals with the ranch owner. The lease leader is part of our hunting group and does not profit off of us. He is just the enforcer. If you have a jerk land owner the manager can be a good buffer zone. The key is a good manager,,don't sound like this guy is one of them. We have to call during the off season when we go up to fill feeders but never during deer season.


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## Bucksnort (Jun 29, 2004)

ELF62 said:


> Dang that souds like the Corp. that I work for. Not judging but that sure sounds more like a buisness than a deer lease.hwell:


You better believe its a business, no doubt about.


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## fishdoc1 (May 22, 2004)

I see that the ad is back on Deer Texas.


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## cj9271 (Aug 24, 2004)

Let me clarify myself. THIS GUY (BILL) DOES NOT KNOW WHAT HE IS DOING. IF YOUR INTENTIONS ARE TO NOT HAVE ANY FUN, NOT BE ABLE TO TAKE YOUR FAMILY AND NOT BE ABLE TO HARVEST A WHITETAIL THEN YOU RESPOND TO HIS ADS AND ENJOY A HORRIBLE RIDE. THIS DUDE IS JECKLE AND HIDE. I hope I spelled that right. Hey Deer Texas, I am also self employed and I would not accept this dudes money if he was the last customer on earth after this horrible experience.


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## DeerTexas (Dec 5, 2004)

NOTICE: I am posting the following message written by Mr. Bill Frazier as a courtesy to him. Although he is working on it, he is currently unable to post here for some reason. His ad has been reposted to DeerTexas.com and I humbly apologize to Mr. Frazier for removing his ad in the first place. I think it's a good reminder for us all that there are always two sides to every story.

Best wishes and good hunting to all,
Scott-

################### 

Hello cj9271 - C**** J******* of ************* 

It is good to see that at least your character is consistent 
regardless of the forum. Yes, you were approached in August to see if 
you were interested in hunting on my South Texas lease. You were not 
approached, in any manor, in regards to you assisting in managing my 
lease, but only as an opportunity to hunt on a South Texas lease. You 
were informed of the rules regarding the lease, several times, prior 
to actually getting on the lease. Surprisingly, you stated you applied 
many of these rules on the lease you manage in the hill country. One 
of which was the “you must call before you go” rule. That was one of 
the rules you adamantly informed me must be done. So, “What’s up with 
that!” Why are you complaining about a rule that you stated you 
enforce yourself on your lease? Are you the type of lease manager that 
is good at enforcing the rules but the rules are not applicable to 
you, or you just choose not to follow them? I’m not sure what you are 
implying when you state “you mostly worked there before season”. You 
assisted with very little before hunting season. You went one time in 
September to assist with the preparations that are needed before 
hunting season starts, because you were busy taking care of personal 
business. 

Yes, the rules do state you can “harvest 1-140" mature buck, 1-spike 
mature, 1-doe young” and however, you were informed you can shoot as 
many hogs as you can clean. This was discussed prior to you joining 
the lease also, with the other two men on the lease as witnesses, 
because as you know and stated my father managed the lease for many 
years, I have only been managing the lease for the past three years. 
However, what you did not state is my father and the other hunters who 
have been hunting the lease were shooters and the lease was hunted 
out. I and the other men have been trying to rebuild the herd the 
past three years. Prior to this you would not see a good buck over 
the age of three years. Again, I will reiterate, you were informed of 
all of the rules, issues of over hunting and the fact we were looking 
for an individual who would be willing to let the nice three to four 
year old bucks walk to help build the place back up. The rules were 
clearly and overly stated to make sure that the individual joining us 
had the same interest and vision in rebuilding the ranch. This 
included letting some nice 3 -4 year old bucks to walk, feeding all 
year, assisting with maintenance of the place and THAT NO GUESTS were 
allowed because of problems in the past with other people. You agreed 
to all of the rules. You even stated that it wasn’t a problem because 
your family could go to hill country place with you. You even went as 
far as to say your wife could shoot your buck at your hill country 
lease. I was however surprised when you informed me after opening 
weekend, not only did your wife shoot your buck, you shot and 
additional buck. I assumed from way you had presented this that you 
were only allowed to shoot one buck off of the hill country lease. I 
was also taken back to hear from one of my other lease members that 
you showed him a video of your nine year old daughter with a gun on 
your wifes shoulder killing a pig in a CAGE. I would be concerned 
about a bullet ricocheting and possibly hurting your wife or daughter.

Let’s talk about communications. The owner does not want to be 
dealing with all the hunters on the lease, only the lease manager 
which was established 26 years ago with the ranch owners father and my 
father. As per the owners request, this is what is being done. So 
unless he approaches you and request you to start communicating with 
him directly, I’ve been instructed to communicate with him for the 
group. I do not have a problem with anyone communicating with the 
owner as long as it is the owner who is requesting it.

On a communications note again, I called you on a Monday and asked if 
I could borrow a trailer to move some of the furniture out of my dad’s 
house. You said sure no problem. I also asked when you would be going 
to the lease and you told me “you didn’t know hadn’t even thought 
about it”. When I tried to get back with you on Tuesday, the next 
morning, about the trailer I couldn’t reach you or find you. You 
would not answer your cell phone. However, you are absolutely correct 
when you state “All the crud started because I was there by myself 
sitting in A stand all day at the beginning of the season when the 
owner showed to hunt the stand I was in. Well he called Bill and the 
S**t hit the fan.” Let me clarify something, you were sitting in MY 
stand, the stand I had been feeding for the last three years, year 
round. The ranch owner called me to see if anyone was going to be 
there and ask if he could hunt “that stand”, “my stand”. I told him I 
just spoke to everyone and no one would be there and he could hunt “my 
stand”. You did not ask permission to hunt my stand you just took it 
upon yourself to hunt it. You did not expect any one to show up after 
we spoke on Monday because you knew what all of our schedules would 
be. In addition, when I spoke with you on Friday I “ASKED” where you 
were because I had wanted to borrow the trailer you said I could use 
but you disappeared. I then, after you informed me you went to both 
leases, ASKED if you shot anything. You stated you did not shoot 
anything and asked if I wanted look in your coolers. I told you no. I 
did not accuse you of anything I just asked you a simply questions of 
whether or not you shot anything. You also informed me that you knew 
someone had been on the lease because you set the locks on both of the 
gates to a specific set of numbers, your birth date, so you would know 
if someone came in or out, why! WHY would you be concerned or need to 
know if someone was or had been there? “Sure Sounds Like Something 
Fishy Going On There” thanks Borderbandit for the comment I agree with 
you.

On the evening before you left the lease for the last time, you showed 
up at 5pm went to YOUR stand to feed it, came back to the house and 
asked if I needed something from town. I replied no. Since it takes 
30 minutes to get to the lease from the highway I found it strange you 
would immediately leave again to go to town. You then returned at 
10pm with a live injured bobcat in the back of your truck. The next 
morning when I went outside I heard something making a wheezing 
noise. With my flashlight I saw the bobcat in the back of your 
truck. After you woke up, you stated you tried strangle it to death 
but the bobcat would not die, so you let it lay in the back of your 
truck all night in 40 degree weather, because you not want to damage 
it’s cape. I guess you killed the bobcat after you hunted that 
morning and cleaned it while you were cleaning the 8 point. You 
stated you couldn’t stand to go back to the lease; well I can’t stand 
someone who has no respect for wildlife and will let the animals 
suffer when you intended to kill it anyway. As far as your comments 
about a “trophy hunter”, the lease was over hunted and I was looking 
for someone who is interested in shooting only a 140 plus buck. Not a 
hunter who was interested in shooting something just because they like 
to shoot and have to kill something. This was also clearly and overly 
addressed with you with all the other members of the lease present. 
I can’t wait to see the picture you post of the 140 ??? 8 point buck 
with a 19” spread. This should be a good one to see if it is actually 
the deer that came off of my lease.

The locks on the stands are there to keep the wets out as well as the 
camp house. The land owner is allowed to hunt our stands as this was 
the original agreement with my father and his father. The owner always 
asks where everyone will be hunting and asks to hunt one of the empty 
stands. He never just takes a stand, he asks to hunt what is left, 
which this doesn’t happen very often. Yes, you were also informed 
you had your own personal blind that no one else would hunt when you 
were not there. However I have no control over what the land owner 
does when none of us are there. You were also informed of this prior 
to getting on the lease

As expensive as it is to harvest deer no one wants individuals who do 
not pay their way or do their far share of the work, come in and pop a 
deer out of their blind that they have been paying to feed for three 
years, year round. You stated to me in September 2005 that if someone 
on your lease makes a mistake you tell them to get their stuff and 
leave the lease immediately. I am reading mixed messages from you 
again, when did you start the new policy of three strikes and your 
out, January 10, 2006?

I do not expect anyone to “kiss my a**”. I expect everyone to abide 
by the rules they agreed to when getting on the lease. How can you 
bash me on this site when you where clearly and overly told ALL of 
these rules prior to getting on my lease, in the beginning of 
September 2005.

Now that you have ripped out my colon dude, I have now cleansed it. I 
have stated the facts. I have two other men still on the lease with 
me that can verify many of this issues you have twisted around on this 
site. You are trying to vindicate your wrong doings by posting 
lies. I was very honest with you about the rules and the condition of 
the ranch. I did not misrepresent anything to you, nor did I ever ask 
you to assist me in managing my lease. I do not over charge the other 
lease members so I do not have to pay anything, like you do on your 
lease. I pay my way and do more than my fair share of the work on the 
lease. 

I am not the type of lease manager you are and I am very glad of 
that. You have no respect for the wild life what-so-ever and are 
obviously a shooter which is not the way you presented yourself when 
you got on my lease. 


WA FRAZIER


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## Dunc (May 29, 2004)

2 sides to every story



:cheers:


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## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

And the plot thickens...


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## WAF150 (Jan 29, 2006)

*Thank you Scott*

There are always two sides to every story. I wanted to present my side of the story and I want to thank Scott at DeerTexas.com for assisting me.

WA Frazier


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## StinkBait (May 31, 2004)

wow, amazing, there are always 2 sides and thanks for sharing Bill, hopefully you fellas can work this out.


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## WAF150 (Jan 29, 2006)

*work it out????????????????????*



StinkBait said:


> wow, amazing, there are always 2 sides and thanks for sharing Bill, hopefully you fellas can work this out.


How could anyone want this dishonest person , that continually tried to be on my lease without anyone else there , want him on their lease?


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## StinkBait (May 31, 2004)

well Bill, its not my place to take sides since i wasnt there and frankly its none of my business, i do commend you on showing up and giving your side of the story since you were called out in a public forum


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## WAF150 (Jan 29, 2006)

StinkBait said:


> well Bill, its not my place to take sides since i wasnt there and frankly its none of my business, i do commend you on showing up and giving your side of the story since you were called out in a public forum


Thanks, stinkbait


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## jacketbuck (Jan 30, 2006)

I always say that people never cease to amaze me, and Chris, after reading your posts, I can say it again today. My name is Pharis Godfrey, and I am member number three (with you having been the fourth) of this four-member lease. One year ago this month, I responded to an ad on DeerTexas.com, and a couple of phone calls led to a face-to-face meeting with Bill Frazier and the other member of five years. I liken that meeting to an interview, and I must say that they did an excellent job of putting me through the ringer regarding understanding my thoughts on hunting versus shooting, my management skills and ability to judge bucks, my camp work ethic, etc. In that same discussion, I also learned of all of the troubles that Bill and company had encountered over the last five years trying to fill that fourth and final spot. Unfortunately, as we have recently learned, and of which your posts have reaffirmed, those troubles were found again when we asked you to joined our lease. 



My thoughts on your various comments, and not in any particular order&#8230;.



THE RULES

I was given a set of rules to review and sign that stated what I could shoot, as were you. Nowhere in these rules does it say you can only shoot two pigs, as you stated. Additionally, Bill discussed with me the origination of the landowner's 140" rule, and further explained that as leaseholders, we were setting our standards even higher than that. This, of course, was also explained to you. No, I didn't shoot any does, pigs, or bucks this year, but not because it was frowned upon or discouraged, but because I didn't want to - because I don't feel the need to shoot something just to say I shot something. That's the kind of thing that is frowned upon on our lease, and it is the reason that you are no longer with us.



COMMUNICATION

The need to communicate was stressed over and over. Since I was not only looking for a place to hunt, but also for an opportunity to forge new friendships, this came naturally. Not only did I not mind letting Bill know when I would be going - I did so in hopes that he or the other members (yourself included) might be able to go at the same time. It's as much about the camaraderie as it is about the hunting, or at least it used to be.



LABOR

I was told that we feed year round. I was told that we water year round. I was told of the grass to be mowed, the camp projects to be completed, and of the things we wanted to do to help out the landowner, and I did all of these things - not because I had to, but because I wanted to. In your six months on the lease, to my knowledge you helped to do these things just once.



THE LANDOWNER

There is a reason that, after 26 years, Bill's family still has this lease. It is called appreciation and respect. He, and now I appreciate the opportunity to hunt on this property. Nobody owes us that right. It is earned every time we leave the property in better shape than we found it, every time we do a favor for the landowner, every time his life is made easier by knowing that he can trust the people that have access to his property. His life is also made easier by choosing to communicate with the lease manager versus the individual hunters. Nobody forbids communication with him, and he is in fact a very nice guy to sit around the camp and chat with. The most important thing, though, is that he is the boss. It's his land, and he makes the rules. Yes, he will occasionally sit in your stand, but that's part of the deal. I knew this from the beginning. You did too.



FAMILY

What part of "no guests" do you not understand? Don't you realize that the reason that rule is in place is because of people abusing their privileges when such a right was allowed in the past? How can you even begin to suggest, as you did in one of your posts, that you are upset because you are "not able to take your family"? It's in my rules, and it was in yours too.



I'll conclude by saying that this past year was everything that I had hoped it would be, and more importantly it was everything that I was told it would be. No, I'm not a kissa**. I'm just a guy who knows a good opportunity when he sees it. I worked hard, paid my dues, saw a lot of game (including some great up-and-coming bucks), and most importantly made some new friends along the way. The more I got to know the guys on this lease, the more I felt sorry for all that they went through over the past five years trying to fill spots. Unfortunately, I can now share in their frustration.

Pharis Godfrey


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## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

"No, I didn't shoot any does, pigs, or bucks this year, but not because it was frowned upon or discouraged, but because I didn't want to - because I don't feel the need to shoot something just to say I shot something. That's the kind of thing that is frowned upon on our lease,"

Wow, that just sits weird with me that a person would pay for a deer lease and not shoot anything at all. Hmmmmm.... I didn't get my trophy I was looking for but I dang sure took out some pigs, culls, an does to help improve the herd. I aint leaving empty handed. If I pay good money for a lease, my freezer is going to have something to show for it, and I won't feel a single frown about it.


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## Cool Arrow (Oct 31, 2005)

interviews....lease projects....mowing grass (i dont even mow the grass at my house!) Give me a break...i thought hunting was a way to relax and enjoy yourself? Sounds like theyre looking for ********. If im gonna drive down from say, Houston 4 hours to a lease and waste a weekend after a long week working, ill be damned if someone is gonna "tell" me to bust my arse. You paid money...Mr. frasier is responsible for the projects. Like i said, the guy sounded like a real jerk when i called last year. Also you PAID for the hunting rights....that landowner should not be hunting period. I would have rode his arse if someone got in my stand without permission. Sounds like a raw deal....Ask Scott at Deertexas to hook you up. This drill sargent lease manager gives enough good reason for Scott at Deertexas to give you a complimentary 6 months of his services, after all his services are guaranteed. Good luck bro


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## WAF150 (Jan 29, 2006)

*L O L*



Cool Arrow said:


> interviews....lease projects....mowing grass (i dont even mow the grass at my house!) Give me a break...i thought hunting was a way to relax and enjoy yourself? Sounds like theyre looking for ********. If im gonna drive down from say, Houston 4 hours to a lease and waste a weekend after a long week working, ill be damned if someone is gonna "tell" me to bust my arse. You paid money...Mr. frasier is responsible for the projects. Like i said, the guy sounded like a real jerk when i called last year. Also you PAID for the hunting rights....that landowner should not be hunting period. I would have rode his arse if someone got in my stand without permission. Sounds like a raw deal....Ask Scott at Deertexas to hook you up. This drill sargent lease manager gives enough good reason for Scott at Deertexas to give you a complimentary 6 months of his services, after all his services are guaranteed. Good luck bro


 L O L


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## Cool Arrow (Oct 31, 2005)

Also, Im a lease manager and manage a few properties and this Mr. Frasier blows....thats not how you do business. After working all week and paying your 2500 plus, last thing you want to mess with is people who make it hard for you to enjoy your deer lease. Interviewing the hunter? whats next? drug testing and stool samples...sheesh


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## Cool Arrow (Oct 31, 2005)

"No, I didn't shoot any does, pigs, or bucks this year, but not because it was frowned upon or discouraged, but because I didn't want to - because I don't feel the need to shoot something just to say I shot something. That's the kind of thing that is frowned upon on our lease,"

Mr. Godfrey, sounds like youre scared to pull the trigger, hell id be too with Sargent Carter on my tail Give me a break! What did Mr frasier promise you for your brown nose post? More i read your post, the more i like ya...as a lease manager someone who pays top dollar and is scared to ground check an animal. Also, please wipe your nose please, the brown nosing is a bit pathetic


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## Red (Feb 21, 2005)

StinkBait said:


> wow, amazing, there are always 2 sides and thanks for sharing Bill, hopefully you fellas can work this out.


Sounds like there were some wires crossed on a couple of minute issues like hog hunting, but mostly it sounds like this is just plain a bad match of hunter and lease.

I'm rootin' for the two of you to work it out, too. And if not its just more entertainment for the rest of us, I suppose. Cheers to there are always two sides to the story. No pre-judging! :work: 
(Where the heck is that popcorn icon?)
Red


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## reelhappy (Aug 15, 2005)

Hope yal work it out but if it was me I would finsh the year out fill my frezzer leagly and get a lease where I could enjoy myself. I will not hunt ajitated it defeats the purpose.
My behind would be outa there. Leased from a guy once had to verbaly tear this guy down he did every thing that he couild to screw up the hunt out of ignornce he was just that stupid. Some people just do not jive. Lease we are on now is small but a cadiliac will keep it as long as we can or buy it maybe. There are always options.


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## cj9271 (Aug 24, 2004)

Well well well, Lets get some BSSSSS straight. First of all I did work more then 1 weekend. The stand I was in the day Mr Land Owner showed up was a community blind unless you changed that rule. The bobcat did get shot in the head after I realized it was not going to make it (I did try to strangle it but it was a tough dude). By the way I am having it mounted along with my 8 point that was 7 1/2 years old, man they are gonna look goog on my wall!!!!!! I am naming the bobcat mount WILL POWER. After realizing that I was not trusted, I did set the gates with my birthday so I could if somebody was checking on me. If I was so "fishy" then why did I wait for Mr. Bill to be there when I harvested a deer. I waited at camp for a while after I cleaned my deer for Mr. Bill to see but he never came back to camp. If I was such a bad apple then why didn't Mr Bill give the me the boot. Let me rephrase that, Why didn't he tell one of the other guys to call me and take care of it like he did to the last guy. I am the one who sent a letter stating that I was getting off. All in All it was a bad experience for me (I guess for all). And by the way Mr Bill why don't you come wait in my neighborhood for me now. I will try to put a copy of my rules for Bracketville with this post. IF ANYBODY WOULD LIKE REFERENCES FOR MY HONESTY, INTEGRITY AND ABILITY TO RUN A SUCCESSFUL DEER LEASE, PLEASE JUST ASK AND I WILL GIVE NAMES AND NUMBERS WITHOUT ASKING THEM TO HELP ME OUT OR CALLIN THEM FIRST TO TELL THEM THE STORY.


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## cj9271 (Aug 24, 2004)

*Deer Lease Rules*​*Season: April 1, 2005 - March 31, 2006*​*Hunting Rules*

*1) *Whitetail specifics are to be determined by the Game Manager. *ONE* TROPHY *(atleast 8 points outside the ears 4 ½ years old *or older) and *ONE* cull buck (*old deer with no brow tines, etc. USE COMMON* *SENSE).* *Absolutely no does or spikes are to be taken*. *Two deer DOES NOT mean 2 trophys. If you shoot your trophy first DO NOT shoot one better and say your first deer was your cull buck. Anybody caught doing this will be dismissed from the lease immediatley *

2) A Guest is anyone that is not an immediate family member of the paid hunter.

3) No Guests at all during Bow Season.

4) No Guests during 1st two weeks of Gun Deer Season. No more than 1 guest per visit during Whitetail Season. Guests are welcome anytime outside of season.

5) Whitetail & Elk are ONLY to be taken by paid hunters. Only *ONE ELK* is allowed.

*6) **IF YOU CAN SEE SOMEBODY ELSES STAND OR FEEDER FROM WHERE YOU ARE WANTING TO SET UP YOUR STUFF THEN YOU ARE TOO CLOSE. SEE GARY OR CHRIS FOR EXCEPTIONS OR YOU WILL BE REQUIRED TO MOVE YOUR STUFF.*

7) Hogs need to be killed. If you shoot one and do not want it, be sure and haul it to a remote area.

8) Clean all animals on the concrete slab beside the barn.

 9) You are only allowed to hunt in *YOUR OWN STAND. YOU ARE ALLOWED A 
MAXIMUM OF TWO STANDS AND FEEDERS.*

*House/Property Rules*

1) Do not stop at the River or any area prior to our leased pastures.

2) The camp house is to stay clean at all times. No smoking inside the camp house. Don't leave any perishable food in the cabinets or the refrigerator.

3) Take your trash with you. Burn only paper products in the barrels (cans do not burn!).

4) Use only the bedding, towels and pillows that are yours.

5) Sleeping quarters are 1st come - 1st serve basis. Paid hunters have bed priority over guests.

6) We are all here to have fun and enjoy the property. Ideas or suggestions for improvements are welcome.

*7) **Children are NOT ALLOWED TO RIDE-4-WHEELERS AROUND CAMP. There is a big field behind camp where they can ride slowly.*

*Any sale of your spot on the lease must be approved by Chris or Gary.*

*Anyone not following these rules will IMMEDIATLEY lose their place on the lease without refund and will not be invited back next season. No exceptions!*

*All hunters must sign and return a copy of these rules to Gary Stevenson or Chris Jennings. Please contact Gary at 281-236-3080 or Chris at 409-682-3500 with any questions.*



____________________________________ Date:______________________

Hunter Signature


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## LIONESS-270 (May 19, 2005)

sent ya a greenie cj..........Hope post 100 finds you ok and on to bigger and better things.

oops...ya already made it....heres to 101.


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## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

Cool Arrow said:


> .....More i read your post, the more i like ya...as a lease manager someone who pays top dollar and is scared to ground check an animal....


That is about the first thing that came to mind. If I was a landowner I'd love to collect money without anyone shooting anything... more for me, and my maintanence on the ranch is paid for. 



Cool Arrow said:


> and this Mr. Frasier blows....





Cool Arrow said:


> ...What did Mr frasier promise you for your brown nose post?....Also, please wipe your nose please, the brown nosing is a bit pathetic....


Folks, there is always two sides to a story, but we don't need to get into name calling and such. We can disagree with people but it needs to be stated in a respectful manner. Of course I have no control over what you want to say but that is my $.02.


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## Whitey (Dec 16, 2004)

That thing about the bobcat is just bad.


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## DeerTexas (Dec 5, 2004)

Cool Arrow said:


> ...gives enough good reason for Scott at Deertexas to give you a complimentary 6 months of his services, after all his services are guaranteed.


I don't guarantee you won't get bit by a rattler if ya jack with it.


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## speckle-catcher (May 20, 2004)

I edited DeerTexas's post to remove cj9271's real name and company name.


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## TXPalerider (May 21, 2004)

WOW....wish I would have gotten some popcorn and a beer and a snorkel before I sat down to read this. It got pretty deep.


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## DeerTexas (Dec 5, 2004)

Not wanting to stir it up more than it already is, speckle-catcher, and I certainly respect your right to edit whatever you see fit, but I'm not sure I understand why it's ok for one person to *annonimously* post derogatory information about another. Seems to me if someone has the balls to call another out, the least they should do is stand. If their accusations were credible, wouldn't they insist on it? In my opinion, annonimous negativity is cowardly. Carry on.


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## El Cazador (Mar 4, 2005)

DeerTexas said:


> Huh? There are ALWAYS lots of leases available in South Texas. Maybe you meant to say the leases fitting your personal criteria were very few, eh?
> 
> Referrals are indeed the best way to find anything, whether it be a deer lease or a good restaraunt. However, when you've exhausted all your buddies and you're still coming up short, we've got current lease info waiting at DeerTexas.com.


Scott, you're probably right. The last time I was looking for a lease was back in '99 and I do remember that there were properties in S.T. but they were mostly too big and so I therefore could not afford to hunt them.

I'm sorry if my post was negative it was not meant to be.

Oscar


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## cj9271 (Aug 24, 2004)

Hey deertexas, I DO stand on my comments, to all that dont know, my name is chris jennings. You had no reason posting my company name on this forum. if you would like to talk to me call 409-682-3500. I will gladly talk to you about my frustration with you at this point. As far as bill is concerned, I sleep very well at nite.


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## speckle-catcher (May 20, 2004)

DeerTexas said:


> Not wanting to stir it up more than it already is, speckle-catcher, and I certainly respect your right to edit whatever you see fit, but I'm not sure I understand why it's ok for one person to *annonimously* post derogatory information about another. Seems to me if someone has the balls to call another out, the least they should do is stand. If their accusations were credible, wouldn't they insist on it? In my opinion, annonimous negativity is cowardly. Carry on.


it's not that its OK for CJ to post a complaint anonymously.

it that it's not OK for you (or anyone) to post his real name and the company he works for without his permission.

If it was only his name - it would not have been an issue. Post his company name as well and who knows what whackjob may have an axe to grind and decide to look him up. (and this kind of thing DOES happen)

does that make sense?


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## Charles Helm (Oct 22, 2004)

TXPalerider said:


> WOW....wish I would have gotten some popcorn and a beer and a snorkel before I sat down to read this. It got pretty deep.


Best I can do on short notice...


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## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

LOL... good one Helm.


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## DeerTexas (Dec 5, 2004)

El Cazador said:


> Scott, you're probably right. The last time I was looking for a lease was back in '99 and I do remember that there were properties in S.T. but they were mostly too big and so I therefore could not afford to hunt them.
> 
> I'm sorry if my post was negative it was not meant to be.
> 
> Oscar


Thanks. No problem, Oscar. Carry on.


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## DeerTexas (Dec 5, 2004)

cj9271 said:


> You had no reason posting my company name on this forum.


You posted his name. It didn't occur to me that you might not want your name posted as well. I only posted what he gave me to post.

My name and business was also mentioned. Should that be edited out? I mean, the argument really has nothing to do with me or my business since you didn't find Mr. Frazier through DeerTexas.com. It's my understanding y'all had a personal relationship before you leased from him that was completely unrelated to DeerTexas.com.

Y'all work it out among yourselves and leave me out of it. Thanks!!


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## DeerTexas (Dec 5, 2004)

speckle-catcher said:


> it that it's not OK for you (or anyone) to post his real name and the company he works for without his permission.


Please understand that I'm not choosing sides and I'm not taking up for Mr. Frazier here. It's obvious that he's capable of taking up for himself. However, I wonder why it's not ok to post Chis' personal information, but it's ok for him to post Mr. Frazier's, or even mine for that matter. I never gave anyone permission to post my name or business either, yet it stands. I'm sure Mr. Frazier never gave the nod for what was said about him either. Just trying to understand. Thanks for your patience with me.


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## Fishin-Inc (May 27, 2004)

*Oh lordy*

I love to hunt but this place is full of............


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## kman (Aug 13, 2005)

I really do not care about the personal problems these two men are experiencing, however I do care about what Mr. Frazier claims that Chris did to a bobcat and then Chris admitted to. You shoot a bobcat but do not kill it, try to strangle it, but are unsuccessful because it was "one tough dude". You then leave it to suffer in the back of your truck to die a slow death. If you were on my lease I would kick your ***** and right behind me would be every other member and the landowner. You are not a hunter, and evidently not a very good killer. You should be reported to TPWD and never be able to purchase a hunting license again.


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## cj9271 (Aug 24, 2004)

hey k-man why don't you get it straight, I found the bobcat in the road after it had been hit. I thought it was going to live, when I realized it was not going to recover I killed it in a humane manner. so don't jump on the wagon till you know the facts.


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## SPI-FlatsCatter (Nov 3, 2005)

on a related note: BillyBob comes home drunk one night with a sheep under his arm. He walks into his bedroom (waking up his wife) and exclaims "I want you to see the pig I sleep with when you have a "headache"......wife replies: "Your drunk and an idiot, thats no pig, its a sheep".....BillyBob says: "Shut up woman, I wasn't talking to you"


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