# Sierra Game King or Berger VLD



## TxHunter1214 (Nov 21, 2014)

I have a Remington 7mm Sendero and I'm going back and forth between these two bullets, which do you prefer?


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## Sgrem (Oct 5, 2005)

Whatcha shootin with em?


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## Jungle_Jim (Nov 16, 2007)

What Sgrem said


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## artys_only (Mar 29, 2005)

What one shoots better ? What are you shooting ? Game kings are tuff bullets . I shoot a lot of Bergers .. They shoot we'll .


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## TxHunter1214 (Nov 21, 2014)

I'll be shooting whitetail. Just asking which you prefer and that have shot these bullets and have had personal experience with both. I know I can shoot them both and see which shoots better but I'd like to see opinions on both. I have always shot SGK, but Berger has blown up these past few years.


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

I have been shooting 168 grain Berger VLDs most recently in my Sendero 7 mag. About 3000 fps. It shoots bug holes.......but I shot a Trans-Pecos mulie buck this past season and wasn't impressed. It was the second deer I shot last season. 

First was a WT, quartering to, shot him right in the brisket. Absolutely smoked him/passed through and came out behind the off side shoulder. 

The mulie was about 175 yds and walking after a doe and wouldn't stop, he was broadside/quartering away slightly, the shot was about 4" forward and about 2" high of a perfect "behind the shoulder heart shot". Basically the center of his shoulder blade. Knocked him flat down on his side. He laid there for quite a while but got up. 

Basically no penetration at all. When I cleaned him that bullet had splattered and did not enter the chest cavity. All of my future shots with the VLDs will be up higher in the lung area.


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## Fresh2Salt (May 21, 2004)

Been shooting SGK bullets for many years now. Haven't lost an animal yet. Don't have experience with the Berger's.


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## Sgrem (Oct 5, 2005)

Most any other bullet is a better choice than that VLD for game hunting. I took my 7mag on my Safari in Namibia. Shot ten animals with 175grain Nosler Partitions. Including KUDU at 350yds, Hartmanns zebra at 450 yds, and a baboon at 505yds. (Search my name and Namibia for full write up and pictures) Those nosler partitions are far from the most accurate in my gun but easily the best choice for plains game. Interbond, SGK, both would be a good choice for whitetail. VLD is not a good hunting bullet.

I'm sure some of yall are typing as fast as you can of how great they are. Given the choice, VLD are not good for hunting big game. Period. There are many better hunting bullets.... Have fun.


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## pg542 (Oct 9, 2006)

As mentioned, you're comparing two different types of bullets. IMO, sgrem is spot on. VLD's are fine target bullets, even with some of the long range guys. Sierra Game Kings are better suited for hunting as the name implies. My .300 winMag likes both of them. I wish I could say the same for my .270 win. Will a Berger VLD kill game? Surely it will, but out of your selections, it's not the best choice. Again, IMO. lol, flame away 2coolers


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## artys_only (Mar 29, 2005)

*Check out this link .*

I have been shooting Berger for about 4 years and 6 deer and 40 pigs most of them never took more than 10 yards to fall over dead . Here is a link a guy that tested Vld and hybrid Berger bullets on animals , at long ranges . A lot of great info here . Go to page 12 that's where he shows the terminal performance . Of these bulllets if you can shoot and elk with one and they work , that's good for me , they have been the most accurate bullet in my 30 cals. And 7mm mag .

Enjoy

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f19/comparing-berger-210-vld-215-hybrid-88657/

I shoot the 215 hybrids out of my ultra 
And the 180 hybrid out of my 7mag .


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## pg542 (Oct 9, 2006)

artys only said:


> I have been shooting Berger for about 4 years and 6 deer and 40 pigs most of them never took more than 10 yards to fall over dead . Here is a link a guy that tested Vld and hybrid Berger bullets on animals , at long ranges . A lot of great info here . Go to page 12 that's where he shows the terminal performance . Of these bulllets if you can shoot and elk with one and they work , that's good for me , they have been the most accurate bullet in my 30 cals. And 7mm mag .
> 
> Enjoy
> 
> ...


Enlightening read to say the least. Thanks for the link. Most of what I've read in mags and online really play up the long distance accuracy aspect of the VLD's but none have really extolled it as a hunting round. Maybe I just haven't been reading enough on them. As I mentioned my .300WM really likes them. With the right conditions and I do my part, sub moa out to 300. I've never tried them any further than that. Good info since the VLD's shoot just a little better than the SGK's out of my .300. I may just have to giv'm a chance in the field. I see, said the blind man.


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## Cynoscion (Jun 4, 2009)

Orange box Bergers for hunting. Yellow box for paper. I'd compare the difference between the 2 as the same as the difference between SMK's and SGK's.

As long as you choose a bullet made for hunting, shoot the one your rifle likes best.


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## Csafisher (Nov 16, 2010)

Have shot 6-8 pigs with 185 vlds and one doe. None took more than a few steps. Longest shot was 150yds. I don't think any exited, but I shot the pigs in the shoulders.


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## sylvan (Dec 26, 2007)

TxHunter1214 said:


> I have a Remington 7mm Sendero and I'm going back and forth between these two bullets, which do you prefer?


This thread makes me laugh- (with humor not sarchasm). It comes up all the time with most of the shooters I know.

I think it depends upon whether you are a shooter or hunter at heart. I am more of a shooter therefore I want the confidence of accuracy over bullet penetration. For me, it is more important to hit or BELIEVE I can hit exactly where I want as opposed to having second thoughts about the bullet accuracy during the squeeze ..... which happens to me. 
For the most part, ANYTHING traveling at 3000 fps is going to mess up living tissue when(or where) it hits so I load for the best accuracy. Bullet construction is secondary.

My hunting buddy disagrees and constantly gives me penetration data, expansion data, knock down energy statistics etc. He is a hunter. His philosophy is to make a big hole completely through the target - even if he is off somewhat he is still successful.

The truth is we are both right and both wrong with different conditions (but I won't admit to him)

If you are hunting average size animals (not Cape Buffs) or shooting non-competitive paper under 300 yds use what you have confidence in.

OK, what did I stir up now?


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## prarie dog (Feb 28, 2011)

Interesting take on these issues Sylvan. I have a lifelong friend that shoots rifles out of the box and frequently misses or talks about a poorly constructed bullet not performing well. He probably hunts a hundred days a year or so. I've been telling him since the mid 70's that he should have his bolt guns bedded and at the same time either fix or replace the factory trigger. He's never done any of this stuff and now, pushing 60, he's still missing and I'm still laughing. So I guess with many guys the need to shoot well with good equipment is secondary to speculating about bullet construction. I know for a fact that a well placed SGK or Berger will kill anything in North America. I don't think I'd use Bergers to root out a Brown Bear in thick cover on Kodiak Island but a well placed Berger will take everything else.


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## sylvan (Dec 26, 2007)

if you could make a toothpick leave the barrel at 3000 fps it would make a mess out of what it hits. 
I realize that everyone does not shoot the same but my belief is that accuracy trumps bullet size and/or construction.

I have hunted everything in North America. I have killed elk with a .243 at 300 yds. I have also shot elk with a .375 at 100 yds and had them run 2 miles. To me, where you hit them is more important than what you hit them with.
A bad shot with a big gun trumps a bad shot with a little gun........ you choose!

Again, to me, it's the shot, not the kill. A big gun is just insurance.

Full disclosure: For many years I have shot high speed 22's for everything. I have learned that a 22 cal bullet may not be enough for a big animal with a bad shot. I don't want to wound an animal and have to chase it 2 miles. Since my eyesight has gotten worse, I deer hunt with a 338/06 but still try to place the bullet on the target's chin or in the ear. I don't begrudge anyone arguing about caliber or bullet weight. A 750 gr 50 bmg does a good job at any range.
I have killed Canadian bear with a Hornady 50 gr SX hollow point from a 218 Bee. Where it hits trumps what it is with todays ballistics. Practice, practice, practice.......


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## Sgrem (Oct 5, 2005)

Tissue damage kills animals no doubt. 
Blood trails help to find animals. I would rather have a bullet with superior penetration and better oportunity for a pass thru with maximum damage leaving two blood trails. Highly unlikely to count on that opportunity with a VLD.


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## barbless (Jul 27, 2004)

doesn't really answer the question but I thought I'd throw this out there. I've had great luck with 223 SGK 65 gr boat tails in my AR. They'll shoot under a 1/2" at 100 yds and are very reliable on game. I've probably shot 10 hogs with it so far. Here's one I recovered under the hide on the off side of a deer I shot last season. I'm not a believer in using 223 on deer but it was an insurance shot on a young buck I shot with a muzzle loader.


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## cwbycrshr (May 23, 2013)

I've taken a lot of WT deer, hogs, and Yotes with .223 65 Gr SGK bullets. Sub 1/2" accuracy as mentioned above. 

I've taken far more WT and Mule Deer with my 264 Win Mag shooting 140Gr SGK bullets. It stacks them in under 1/4" in most conditions. 

Tried reloading the Berger for an Elk trip with my 264. Gun hated the bullets. Dirtiest shooting bullet I have ever tried. Had to clean every 6 rounds. I went back to the SGK and stayed with it. 

Those are my only experiences with Berger and SGK. My guns like what they like...doesn't mean it will work for yours.


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## sylvan (Dec 26, 2007)

My guns like what they like as well so, again, I load for accuracy- most of the time.
That said, about 5 years ago I had the opportunity to hunt Kudu in Namibia.
The Professional Hunter (PH) was a very vocal lunatic about bullet construction and I gave in and loaded the bullet he "recommended". 

Below is a pic of the bullet penetration/damage on a 500 lb animal. 7mm Rem Mag imp at 3100 fps at about 100 yds. A side shot angling slightly away with the bullet hitting a rib, both lungs and DISINTEGRATED PRIOR TO REACHING THE INSIDE OF THE OFF SHOULDER. You can clearly see the right side body cavity with no damage. We did not find a single piece of the SGK.

Squeezing the trigger, I had second thoughts of accuracy. I know that was ridiculous because it was only 100 yds and the gun easily shot a 1.5 moa with that bullet BUT, it affected my head! I did not have confidence in it.
I was actually surprised I didn't miss with all that bullet garbage going through my head. I later shot another animal with a "target" bullet that performed great.
I simply have a hard time with "bullet construction" propaganda with small to medium game. It doesn't matter to me. The SGK should not have come apart and the Berger should have based upon accepted knowledge but the opposite actually happened.

My point is that your head is as big an influence as the equipment.


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## Rmm (Jun 7, 2013)

For years I shot Barnes bullets for their penetration, never had to shoot an animal twice and never recovered a bullet either. I switched to berger bullets for the higher b.c. As I started shooting more long range rifles. Shot a lot of animals with them and some exited some did not. It bothered me at first when I did not get a pass through shot, but with good shot placement they die just as quick. I shoot the 6.5 140 gr hybrids, 180 gr 7mm hybrids and 300 gr 338 hybrids. All are very accurate in my guns. Bottom line is no bullet made will make up for poor shot placement. A gut shot animal is still gutshot whether it is a Barnes, berger, or gameking. Any good hunting bullet will kill humanely with a good shot. I think most animals that are wounded and not recovered are lost because of poor shot placement. I load for accuracy.


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## Superman70 (Aug 13, 2014)

Two totally different animals. Game kings kill critters and shoot good. Vlds kill paper and shoot great. Pick a bullet for the right application.


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## TxHunter1214 (Nov 21, 2014)

Thank you everyone for the responses, this is good information. One down fall for both of these bullets is they are hard to find (factory ammo no hand loads).


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## Chase4556 (Aug 26, 2008)

I load the 65gr gameking for my 223. They shoot great, and do a number of whitetail and pigs. 

I would pick the gamekings if you are hunting, the VLD if you are target shooting.


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