# How is This Possible?



## SetDaHook (Oct 21, 2010)

Posted this in the Boating Forum but since I know a lot of you freshwater guys, wanted your opinion too.

Okay guys, looking for some input on a dilemma. Took my boat to a local dealer for a standard tune up and asked them to grease all fittings on the motor and linkage. Boat was working fine other than the motor having some loss of power. I keep the boat in my boat house, so I had to drive it to the ramp and load it onto the trailer (important point in this story). They did a standard tune up. Picked the boat up, brought it home, and was reloading my gear and doing a general wipe down. Noticed some obvious slack in the hydraulic steering, almost a spongy affect. I've had this boat since new so I know the feel of the steering wheel to within a fraction. Launched the boat, got up on plane, and the steering was SCARY sloppy. It over steered all over the place and was torqueing to the right. I called the dealer from the water and asked what the $%^ did they do to the steering. He said nothing, but bring it back. I brought it back, and after some "choice" discussion, the owner came over, put his finger under the hydraulic cylinder, and said I had a small leak. It was so small, I couldn't even see any oil on his finger. There's never been any oil leaking. I maintain this boat meticulously, there's never been a wrench on the hydraulic steering, never added fluid, nothing...and it's always been fine. Bottom line, the dealer says I need a new cylinder to the tune of about $450!!!. He said they didn't do anything to cause the steering problem. All I know is that it was working fine when I took it in as well as from the day I bought it and now I'm looking at a substantial repair. How could the hydraulic steering go from perfect to wrecked overnight with no visible signs of leakage?? Your input greatly appreciated 2Coolers...


----------



## Crusader (Jan 31, 2014)

you know what B.O.A.T. stands for, right?


----------



## jack1 (Jul 18, 2012)

*B.O.A.T*



Crusader said:


> you know what B.O.A.T. stands for, right?


Crusader I have had boats most of my life . I have not heard this one so come on with it.


----------



## rglide09 (Mar 21, 2012)

Hydraulic steering can develop leaks at any time. I've worked on boat for 40 years. How old and what brand steering do you have? Sea Star (Teleflex) is the more popular steering and I have replaced end cylinder end caps many times. If the piston is pitted then a new cylinder is needed. 
Sorry, nothing the dealer did to cause this and I don't know who the dealer is, doesn't matter. Maybe they could have found the leak when they serviced the engine may have made it easier for you to deal with.


----------



## lx22f/c (Jun 19, 2009)

SetDaHook i see your point on it was working when you took it in. 
But from the other side things can just go out. Not saying they did or didn't do anything to your steering but things can just go out.
I work in a automotive shop and we see things like that from time to time.
Just last week one of our regular customers brought her chevy in for a brake job, while she was waiting for her ride to pick her up one of our techs got her keys and went to pull it into the bay to start on the job. Guess what her car wouldn't start, dang fuel pump went out right there. If she hadn't had been right there when it happened she probably wouldn't have believed it. She had no problems at all up till then. So proof that things just go bad from time to time. Hope this helps in easing your mind. Good luck 
Robert


----------



## Buc McMaster (Jan 27, 2016)

Can't say I know marine steering systems specifically but I do know hydraulics. Perhaps air got in the system? That would certainly make the steering feel spongy and unresponsive. No oil on the tech's finger and he's calling a leak? A bit odd, don't you think? Maybe all you need is to bleed the system and replenish the reservoir. Something certainly could have gone south unexpectedly but I'd say further investigation is warranted.


----------



## SetDaHook (Oct 21, 2010)

lx22f/c said:


> SetDaHook i see your point on it was working when you took it in.
> But from the other side things can just go out. Not saying they did or didn't do anything to your steering but things can just go out.
> I work in a automotive shop and we see things like that from time to time.
> Just last week one of our regular customers brought her chevy in for a brake job, while she was waiting for her ride to pick her up one of our techs got her keys and went to pull it into the bay to start on the job. Guess what her car wouldn't start, dang fuel pump went out right there. If she hadn't had been right there when it happened she probably wouldn't have believed it. She had no problems at all up till then. So proof that things just go bad from time to time. Hope this helps in easing your mind. Good luck
> Robert


 Believe me, I don't want to think the dealer deliberately did anything. If the seals are going bad I can deal with that. I'm just having a hard time knowing that it was fine one day, and wrecked the next. I would think leaking seals would be a lengthy process and I would have seen evidence of it.


----------



## tommy261 (May 3, 2006)

*steering*

If it was warm outside when working fine, the oil could have expanded or been more pressed up, leaving less air in your cylinder. ( also causing more of a sudden leak) once the weather cooled tremendously.....the oil will Shrink having alot of sloppy play in your steering.....less oil , more air ....not likely but definitely possible.


----------



## Buc McMaster (Jan 27, 2016)

The two enemies of hydraulic systems are AIR and contamination. Air is compressible, fluid (oil) is not.......that's why hydraulics work. Air pockets in a system can, in addition to compromising function, damage the pump that pushes the oil from place to place. Granted, the low pressures generally found in a steering system are not likely to cause damage, but any air in the circuit is a bad thing. When there is an air pocket (bubble) in a hose somewhere, that air must be compressed before the fluid moves, accounting for a spongy feeling in your steering. A fluid leak would not in itself cause this condition: a leaky seal will leak oil and, unless the seal is very badly damaged, it will not allow air into the system. A loose fitting or a cracked hose is a more likely candidate for allowing air in. A hose fitting disconnected and reattached (who knows why) without bleeding the system would most certainly allow an air pocket to be trapped. From the OP's first post, I think there's air in the system, not a bad cylinder. But hey, I could be wrong...........


----------



## ML56 (Dec 30, 2008)

I have had the same problem with my hydraulic steering. My issue was bad seals on end caps of cylinder. If after sitting a while you see just "a" drop of oil just under the end cap(clinging to bottom edge) seals are leaking. Once fluid level drops enough in reservoir, and you push an air bubble in the line, the oversteer feeling starts. You can just religiously fill reservoir before each trip and get by for a while, but at marine dealer price for steering oil, your better off rebuilding seals. I got a kit from dealer a few years back(think it was +/- $100.00) and rebuilt end caps in about 2-3 hours.Instructions are in kit. If you do it yourself, get refill kit that attaches a hose to inverted oil bottle to steering unit. If parked on a hill with motor well below reservoir it gravity feeds air out of bleeders, and if a persistent air bubble stays in line, it will bubble up into oil bottle if you work steering from far right to far left a few times. Killer on seals is road grime on steering rod, keeping it clean goes a long ways in protecting seals. Dealers probably not at fault on this one, if you have a leaky seal.-Mike


----------



## Crusader (Jan 31, 2014)

jack1 said:


> Crusader I have had boats most of my life . I have not heard this one so come on with it.


Bring Out Another Thousand


----------



## shadslinger (Aug 21, 2005)

tommy261 said:


> If it was warm outside when working fine, the oil could have expanded or been more pressed up, leaving less air in your cylinder. ( also causing more of a sudden leak) once the weather cooled tremendously.....the oil will Shrink having alot of sloppy play in your steering.....less oil , more air ....not likely but definitely possible.


The effect of an extreme cold night last year caused my relatively new sea star to leak, however topping it back off was the only fix needed. It has worked fine since. Thee was a large drop of fliud under the unit the morning after the very cold night. So far it has not happened again.


----------



## Yort69 (Jan 31, 2011)

Crusader said:


> Bring Out Another Thousand


Yes sir ! Believe you me !...thats " Break Out" Another Thousand....i know all to well.
Owning a boat is a lot like having a wife.....sometimes you just cant figure what went wrong but rest assured somthing will go wrong...and its going to cost you another thousand !
The good news is, with proper maintenance, love and affection , the boat will be around much longer..


----------



## DJ77360 (Jun 10, 2012)

First thing I would do is bleed (and/or flush) the system and refill with fresh fluid.
If you need someone to assist you, i would be happy to.
I have no leaks, but i need to flush mine also in the near future.
Good luck


----------



## Yort69 (Jan 31, 2011)

SetDaHook said:


> Believe me, I don't want to think the dealer deliberately did anything. If the seals are going bad I can deal with that. I'm just having a hard time knowing that it was fine one day, and wrecked the next. I would think leaking seals would be a lengthy process and I would have seen evidence of it.


How long had it been sense you used the boat before you took it in? Did you install the steering yourself? If not, who did? I rig my own boats and i know first hand that you can have air in the system and it will seem like its ok until it sits up a while. They get spongy after sitting up if they have air in the system. This can usually be helped by cranking the steering all the way both directions until it stops and then giving a quick push at the end will usually tighten the steering back up. That said, yours sounds like a lot of air which means it never had all the air bled from system during install or it has a slow leak....I use the SeaStar Pro 2.0.
Easy to do if you want to save some money....nothing to it...


----------



## SetDaHook (Oct 21, 2010)

Thanks for all of the input. I'll try bleeding the system and refilling before I go for a pricey repair if not really needed. 

Yort, the rigging was done professionally by Witte Marine in Baytown when the boat was new and never had a problem with it before. The boat is used regularly and I always try to keep the rods free of dirt and grime and well lubed.


----------



## whackmaster (Apr 2, 2010)

I have the same issue. Went out yesterday for the first time in over a year. The boat was in the shop for almost three months. I told my buddy after we launched that the steering felt weird. It was sloppy and keep going to the right. I don't think the shop messed with any of that. I had the tilt/trim assy. replaced, water pump and lower unit replaced. I know nothing about boat steering or motor so I really don't know if any of the steering was opened or not. Maybe it is just old.(2004) I'll let the wife spend more money.:rotfl:


----------



## Captain Marty (Jul 14, 2006)

Last week I resealed my SeaStar steering cylinder.

Here's a link on how to do it yourself.


----------



## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

SetDaHook said:


> How could the hydraulic steering go from perfect to wrecked overnight with no visible signs of leakage?? Your input greatly appreciated 2Coolers...


With hydraulics and many things, they work perfectly until they don't. My guess is you have a very small leak or bad seal.


----------



## Charlie B (Dec 24, 2015)

*Leak!*

There should be a seal kit on the market to reseal the cylinder. The seals could of dried and become brittle. All it would take is one seal to cause this, and if the seal is on the inside there would be no leak on the outside. Check around for a seal kit for the cylinder. Do not buy a new cylinder it might be an easy fix.


----------



## SetDaHook (Oct 21, 2010)

*Update*

After I got over the initial shock of dealing with a boat with damaged hydraulic steering that magically occurred overnight at their shop, I told the mechanic to go ahead and replace the seals. He told me a seal kit was not available, that I would have to upgrade the cylinder and all. I got on line (and at the direction of another 2Cooler) found the seal kits, sent the link to the mechanic and told him to order and repair the seals. He called me Wednesday morning and after much him hawing, he said it would cost as much to replace the seals as it would for a whole new upgrade, cylinder and all, so I might as well spend the money ($700+) and do that. I told him not just no, but h.ll no! That was the final straw. I told him to purge the system, refill it and I'll pick it up. Just got back from picking it up and there's absolutely no change in the (damaged) steering. I really don't think they did anything at all other than let it sit in their lot. 
I'm not going to bash a local dealer by name here on line, but if anybody wants to know where NOT to take their boat in the Livingston area, PM me. This has been a very bitter pill to swallow and don't want it to happen to another 2Cooler.


----------

