# Livingston navigation question



## 357306 (Jun 12, 2017)

Hello all. I formerly posted under FredG, but somehow that got lost. I live on Kickapoo and want to travel to the 290 bridge area. Because I marked so many stumps in the red areas, I head about 1/2 mile south of the Onalaska peninsula, before turning NW To get from A to B on the attached. I have the stump locations that Hopn and some others were generous enough to share, but they do not include that area. Starting with a bass tournament last year, and continuing to now, I've seen a number of boats going full tilt close to the tip of the peninsula. Does anyone have intel they'd be willing to share on how to get safely through there? Thanks, Fred.


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## markbrumbaugh (Jul 13, 2010)

I plotted these points several years ago when the lake was way down.
30 46.795 95. 05.175
30 46.849 95 05.167
30 47.083 95 05.109
That may not get you far enough south to get directly to B, but it gets you from the large lake to Dove island with your lower unit. Use its care. Not my fault.


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## Ducktracker (Aug 1, 2011)

I believe Garyl might be able to help you he lives on that point.


Good fishing to all!


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## 357306 (Jun 12, 2017)

Thank you Mark. I'll run that route with TM and side scan to confirm.


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## GaryI (Mar 18, 2015)

Attached is an aerial photo from before the lake was built, with the trees highlighted in red which are now "stumps". Most of the trees which are visible below were small and no longer exist - the big ones are in red. I have drawn in the shoreline. As you can see, it is safe to run close along the south shoreline from Dove Island to the west.

Many many many boats somehow travel (unknowingly, I believe) through the stump field without an issue. My neighbor ripped his boat open bow to stern, and I have heard probably 10 bad stump hits over the past few years, so it is definitely possible.


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## Tails-Up (Mar 4, 2017)

where can i find these maps^?


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## Reel Time (Oct 6, 2009)

Tails-Up said:


> where can i find these maps^?


X2


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## GaryI (Mar 18, 2015)

I describe how to download these old USGS maps for free in this thread.

I haven't tried it in a while, so I don't know if the process still works.


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## 357306 (Jun 12, 2017)

Gary, that photo is more than anyone could hope for. Thank you so much for sharing!

I mentioned the stump location work Hop'n and some others offered in the past. Here's the link to that for those who might not have seen it:
http://2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/showthread.php?t=964290

Fred


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## GaryI (Mar 18, 2015)

Sure, Fred, good luck and safe boating!

Love your nickname. Doesn't quite work for me - Gaaaaary


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## markbrumbaugh (Jul 13, 2010)

GaryI said:


> Attached is an aerial photo from before the lake was built, with the trees highlighted in red which are now "stumps". Most of the trees which are visible below were small and no longer exist - the big ones are in red. I have drawn in the shoreline. As you can see, it is safe to run close along the south shoreline from Dove Island to the west.
> 
> Many many many boats somehow travel (unknowingly, I believe) through the stump field without an issue. My neighbor ripped his boat open bow to stern, and I have heard probably 10 bad stump hits over the past few years, so it is definitely possible.


There are still many submerged transom removers south of Dove Island, although not marked in red. When I get back I'll post my current routes and stump files to anyone who pm's me. I have used the route through mentioned elsewhere on this thread many times, and it is based on a low water period when we could see all. The whole file also shows stumps adjacent to this route.


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## GaryI (Mar 18, 2015)

Yes, Mark, you are correct. I didn't bother to mark the stumps south of DI on that image, since my focus was on the area to the west. 

For anyone traveling from DI to the south, go west from DI first until you get close to the FM3186 peninsula, then head south.


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## wwind3 (Sep 30, 2009)

amen to that--I usually try to line up on Indian Hills point when I come out of Kickapoo. A few yrs ago when water was low but I could still launch my boat I saw some killer stumps to the right going south you have marked. But I also saw some to the left towards Dove but fairly close to the intended route.

I mentioned it to see if someone could mark them but when I tried to get back out there I couldn't launch. They were fairly close to the route everyone mentions to get to Indian Hills. I did tick a stump one day out there but at normal levels I guess they are OK.

10-4 on heading due south from Dove to Penwaugh--you wont make it if lake drops very much.

Thanx everyone for the great reporting...


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## 357306 (Jun 12, 2017)

Nickname came from when I got divorced I was freeeeed.


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## 357306 (Jun 12, 2017)

Regarding topo maps, here's where I got mine:
http://www.topoquest.com/find.php


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## GT11 (Jan 1, 2013)

A lot of people run from the last channel marker on Kickapoo to Indian hills point and run straight through. That actually takes you through a stump field and is forgiving if the water is higher that 131'. If it is a little low, you run the risk of hitting some very big trees; one is 3'+ in diameter. The safe route is follow Kickapoo creek (you will need to watch your GPS) to almost the point of the land that Gary drew and then head to the Indian Hills point. As far as going to 190, I just follow Kickapoo creek around the Point.


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## GaryI (Mar 18, 2015)

Gary,

I agree with everything you said below, but one point of clarity on the statement "follow Kickapoo Creek around the point" to 190. It is safest to follow Kickapoo Creek to the point, and then hug the shore going west to 190. I think that is what you meant. I see some people literally following the Kickapoo Creek channel as it goes south of the point and then turns west. There are a few big stumps on the channel in the portion that goes straight west just west of the submerged FM3186 bridge - one is now marked, and I hit another one nearby last year. There is nothing above water in that section, which creates a false sense of confidence for that stretch.

Gary


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## wwind3 (Sep 30, 2009)

GaryI said:


> Gary,
> 
> I agree with everything you said below, but one point of clarity on the statement "follow Kickapoo Creek around the point" to 190. It is safest to follow Kickapoo Creek to the point, and then hug the shore going west to 190. I think that is what you meant. I see some people literally following the Kickapoo Creek channel as it goes south of the point and then turns west. There are a few big stumps on the channel in the portion that goes straight west just west of the submerged FM3186 bridge - one is now marked, and I hit another one nearby last year. There is nothing above water in that section, which creates a false sense of confidence for that stretch.
> 
> Gary


yep! There are bad things out there....


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## GT11 (Jan 1, 2013)

Gary, I don't run that way often so I will defer to your expertise!


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## 357306 (Jun 12, 2017)

I just spent a few hours playing with photos from the website Gary posted above. I searched back to 1912 and found photo series from 1952, 1953, 1958, 1973, 1979, and 1992. The 1958 and 1979 series were free, and a $30 charge for others. I only searched the Kickapoo area, so pricing may vary for other areas. The search results indicate the scale, with low (17K for 1958) being more detailed than high (up to 64K). 1958, being the latest prior to the damming the river, becomes the most useful for fishing and navigation. The converter to tif works great. With that, any image manipulation program will allow you to zoom, combine, crop, hilite, and print as usual. 

In photoshop, I started with a 1952 image, then layered on one from 1979. After adjusting the 1979 layer to match scale, and lining them up, you can trace the 1979 shoreline onto the 1958 lake bed details. 

Great tools. Thanks again, Gary!


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## nikki (Apr 14, 2011)

I have a 1958 Dept of Interior Geo Survey 7.5 minute series Topographic map and this is before the lakes were built. These maps are excellent at showing elevation prior to flooding and like on Somerville will show where high spots which was islands before 20-30 years of silting in or washing down. I was able to outline the lake after flooding by marking the elevation line. Also where heavy timber was but on Somerville so much was cleared during construction. I drove an 18 wheeler in what id now 20' deep.


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## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

Years back I spent a lot of time looking at old topo maps. You never knew until you went and looked the spot over with your depth finder how much it had changed over the years. Some spots seem to remain fairly unchanged after nearly nearly 50 years of water, other spots erode away and fill in with silt and are totally different.


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