# 5% bio diesel mix results



## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

Found some at the Exxon in ColdSpring and been running it for a little over a week. My F250 6.0 loves it, getting 2mpg more MPG. I usually run company diesel, have a 2000gal tank on one of my yards in Jasper and we have a 10,000gal tank at the main office. For the last few years have been running out of them but got stuck on a job far away from my fuel tank. So got to try some 5% and am very impressed. Not only does it get better MPG but also seems to accelerate better and makes the motor sound better at idle. I know the Bio lubes the injectors but did not expect this type of improvements. Anyone else seeing such big increases in performance? 

Got right at 7k on the oil and filters so need to change my oil and filters in two weeks, nothing has changed other then the diesel.


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## FishOnOne (Feb 29, 2012)

I ran some 5% Bio in my 6.0 psd and all I noticed was it idled quiter. I didn't seem to improve the fuel economy nor did it make it worse.

Be careful when running Bio on an older truck for the first time. It's a very good solvent and can clean out old varnis in you gas tank and clog your fuel filter and starve your injectors on correct fuel pressure. 

It's a good thing after running Bio for the first few tanks to replace/inspect the fuel filters. Remember to use only Motorcraft fuel filters since these are the only filters with the aquablock media to prevent water getting to your injectors which bio has a tendency to absorb water btw.


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## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

FishOnOne said:


> I ran some 5% Bio in my 6.0 psd and all I noticed was it idled quiter. I didn't seem to improve the fuel economy nor did it make it worse.
> 
> Be careful when running Bio on an older truck for the first time. It's a very good solvent and can clean out old varnis in you gas tank and clog your fuel filter and starve your injectors on correct fuel pressure.
> 
> It's a good thing after running Bio for the first few tanks to replace/inspect the fuel filters. Remember to use only Motorcraft fuel filters since these are the only filters with the aquablock media to prevent water getting to your injectors which bio has a tendency to absorb water btw.


If it finds some gas in my fuel tank I am totally screwed :rotfl:

Not the first time the truck has seen bio, just the first time I have ran the 5%. Not much on Motorcraft filters of any kind, but thanks for the advise.


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## goodwood (Mar 30, 2009)

isnt there 5% bio at most stations? buccees stickered 10%+ and maybe heb too. i noticed my mpgs went south with 10%. himilers proved higher bio diesel content lowers fuel economy especially in high heat.


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## Profish00 (May 21, 2004)

goodwood said:


> isnt there 5% bio at most stations? buccees stickered 10%+ and maybe heb too. i noticed my mpgs went south with 10%. himilers proved higher bio diesel content lowers fuel economy especially in high heat.


Most do that I have seen around Houston.


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## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

goodwood said:


> isnt there 5% bio at most stations? buccees stickered 10%+ and maybe heb too. i noticed my mpgs went south with 10%. himilers proved higher bio diesel content lowers fuel economy especially in high heat.


All the 10% signs I have seen were for Ethanol in gasoline. The 5% Bio sticker was very specific and I want to say green in color to match the diesel pump handle. For sure there are other blends of diesel out there, but I have not seen any blended diesel in my neck of the woods until last week.


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## 6.5 shooter dude (Jan 8, 2008)

You will need to change your fuel filters every 5000 miles on bio fuel.


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## Gilbert (May 25, 2004)

Jay Baker said:


> You will need to change your fuel filters every 5000 miles on bio fuel.


are you a mechanic?


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## Pocketfisherman (May 30, 2005)

Jay Baker said:


> You will need to change your fuel filters every 5000 miles on bio fuel.


What I understood was after you start running the bio mix, replace the filters after the first 1000 miles, then again after 3000 to remove the crud the solvent in the fuel lets loose from the tank. After that, go to regular service intervals.


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## goodwood (Mar 30, 2009)

Jolly Roger said:


> All the 10% signs I have seen were for Ethanol in gasoline. The 5% Bio sticker was very specific and I want to say green in color to match the diesel pump handle. For sure there are other blends of diesel out there, but I have not seen any blended diesel in my neck of the woods until last week.


I hear ya JR. Glad you're getting good results. I regularly fillup at Valeros. They seem busy and clean. 5% bio stickers are on their diesel pumps. Got a lot of rust in my last filter change at 10k miles. So decided to try other stations like HEB and Buccees. I noticed Buccees actually stickered at 10% or above and lost a mile or two per gallon driving the same way, actually more highway. Anyways instead of worrying about the fuel at the stations because it's pretty much a **** shoot I'll probably upgrade my filter system to an Airdog. If you want a little smoother running Powerstroke try cetane booster. I get .25-.75 miles better with it.


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## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

goodwood said:


> If you want a little smoother running Powerstroke try cetane booster. I get .25-.75 miles better with it.


Treat our tanks at fill ups and I run Diesel Kleen. Stick my tanks often with the paste just to make sure there is no water, algae,rust,etc..... Metal above ground tanks make condensation and it is something I have to keep an eye on.

I try not to buy any fuel at Valero's stations, wife worked at the Port Aurther refinery for a few years. Prefer Exxon or Chevron.


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## williamcr (Aug 8, 2006)

So you are saying you are getting better fuel mileage then non bio diesel? 


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## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

williamcr said:


> So you are saying you are getting better fuel mileage then non bio diesel?
> 
> Sent from William's iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes

Running diesel with %5 bio I am getting better mileage then running regular low sulfur diesel. I can only figure the lubricity that comes from the %5 bio is making the difference. I would venture a guess that the same results would not be seen in a 7.3 or any older diesel.


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## williamcr (Aug 8, 2006)

This is very odd
I have noticed on my 6.0 that non bio diesel I get better fuel mileage the the 15% they sell at buc-ees.
This is in my 6.0 and in my buddies 6.4 and my old bossed duramax he bought last year. 
I am very interested now.


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## williamcr (Aug 8, 2006)

We have also noticed in a VW bug TDI


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## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

williamcr said:


> This is very odd
> I have noticed on my 6.0 that non bio diesel I get better fuel mileage the the 15% they sell at buc-ees.
> This is in my 6.0 and in my buddies 6.4 and my old bossed duramax he bought last year.
> I am very interested now.
> ...


I know there is some small BTU loss from Bio compared to ULSD. So I was very surprised when I saw the increase, MPG been the same for the last 40k on this set of tires. So seeing an increase all of a sudden was unexpected. Did not even notice it until I got to go 2 days before fill up.


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## kowboy243 (Apr 12, 2012)

When I run any Bio in my Cummins I loose MPG's. All research that I did while in college on bio with tractors using a dyno show that you get less performance while using more fuel. Tested on a few 4000 series Deeres and a Ford.


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## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

kowboy243 said:


> When I run any Bio in my Cummins I loose MPG's. All research that I did while in college on bio with tractors using a dyno show that you get less performance while using more fuel. Tested on a few 4000 series Deeres and a Ford.


What blend of Bio did yall test?

I use and have a lot of Deere equpiment, and there motors in smaller misc. Would not consider any of there tractor motors the same as my 6.0. But curious to see what the difference was in %5 and %2 blend Bio. The BTU loss is so minimal at such a low blend would seem to see a MPG loss you would need floscan.


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## goodwood (Mar 30, 2009)

Jolly Roger said:


> Treat our tanks at fill ups and I run Diesel Kleen. Stick my tanks often with the paste just to make sure there is no water, algae,rust,etc..... Metal above ground tanks make condensation and it is something I have to keep an eye on.
> 
> I try not to buy any fuel at Valero's stations, wife worked at the Port Aurther refinery for a few years. Prefer Exxon or Chevron.


dang you take good care of your tanks. hows the diesel kleen? ford cetane is good but it doesnt clean. have a big jug of DK im gonna use when im done with the motorcraft cetane.


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## goodwood (Mar 30, 2009)

bio gets less fuel economy and power. b20 loses 2%.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/biodiesel.shtml

another link bio diesels disadvatages.

http://www.eia.gov/oiaf/analysispaper/biodiesel/


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## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

goodwood said:


> bio gets less fuel economy and power. b20 loses 2%.
> 
> http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/biodiesel.shtml
> 
> ...


I am not running B20, running B5.

the advantage of bio diesel is that it lubes, Bio diesel does a better job then Additives lubing your fuel system. On a older 6.0s lubricity is very important and B5 seems to be making a positive impact on my MPG.


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## williamcr (Aug 8, 2006)

I am unsure what the difference is but the bio blend i am getting is from Buc-ees which is 15%. When I compare it to the non bio fuel i get better mileage. Now in my john deere tractor I cannot tell the difference but I really dont look at mileage when its low I fill it up.


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## goodwood (Mar 30, 2009)

anything above 5% my fuel eco and power decreases in my 6.4.


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## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

goodwood said:


> dang you take good care of your tanks. hows the diesel kleen? ford cetane is good but it doesnt clean. have a big jug of DK im gonna use when im done with the motorcraft cetane.


I do watch my tanks, got millions of dollars of equipment going every day. One bad diesel tank can cause havoc.

Diesel Kleen is not my favorite, but is easy for me to get and does the job. It comes in at # 10 not the best, not the worst.

Here is a Study of ULSD with different additives and how they preformed. If you notice %2 Bio diesel (B2) is better then any additives.
http://www.johnfjensen.com/Diesel_fuel_additive_test.pdf


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## Bottomsup (Jul 12, 2006)

Biodiesel has less btu than pump diesel. Yes it does lubricate better but will not give you better mileage. I have been testing and running all kinds of diesel fuel for the last 6 years. My personal favorite is pure mineral oil. The same used in electric transformers. I buy it used and run it through a centrifuge and filter system to clean and dewater it. It can be run straight or mixed in any quantity with pump diesel and requires no engine modification. I can promise you that the engine loves it and it does get better mileage with far more lubrication for the injectors and HPOP. Over 250k logged in different trucks proves my findings. I have a dump truck operator that swears his mileage almost doubled and begs me for the fuel.


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## williamcr (Aug 8, 2006)

I find it odd you have tried the transformer oil. We use to use it in our trucks but don't anymore. It is quite costly. 


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## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

williamcr said:


> I find it odd you have tried the transformer oil. We use to use it in our trucks but don't anymore. It is quite costly.
> 
> Sent from William's iPhone using Tapatalk


X2

I hate it, but to each there own.



Bottomsup said:


> but will not give you better mileage. .


B5 is giving me better MPG, so in my case you are incorrect.


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## Bottomsup (Jul 12, 2006)

williamcr said:


> I find it odd you have tried the transformer oil. We use to use it in our trucks but don't anymore. It is quite costly.
> 
> Sent from William's iPhone using Tapatalk


Odd? Why is it odd? It runs smoother and gets better mileage. Costs me 1.00 per gallon. I will use it as long as I can get it because I know its better for my fuel system and the engine itself but hey if you like paying 4.00 a gallon for inferior fuel go ahead and do so.


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## Bottomsup (Jul 12, 2006)

Jolly Roger said:


> X2
> 
> I hate it, but to each there own.
> 
> B5 is giving me better MPG, so in my case you are incorrect.


Horse ****! Prove it.


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## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

Bottomsup said:


> Horse ****! Prove it.


That was kinda the point of this post I started, maybe you missed it.


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## Bottomsup (Jul 12, 2006)

Jolly Roger said:


> That was kinda the point of this post I started, maybe you missed it.


Well you havent proven anything yet.


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## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

Bottomsup said:


> Well you havent proven anything yet.


With my background it would take a total idiot to think I would not know when my personal Diesel engine is getting better mileage.

I do not know why I am getting better MPG, that is the reason I asked the question about B5. Did not want to debate Bio Diesel, and did not think I would have some Jerk wanting me to "prove it". I know for a fact I am getting better MPG, that is proof enough for me.


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## Bottomsup (Jul 12, 2006)

Jolly Roger said:


> With my background it would take a total idiot to think I would not know when my personal Diesel engine is getting better mileage.
> 
> I do not know why I am getting better MPG, that is the reason I asked the question about B5. Did not want to debate Bio Diesel, and did not think I would have some Jerk wanting me to "prove it". I know for a fact I am getting better MPG, that is proof enough for me.


LMAO! You said it. With your background. Your are a total idiot.


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## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

Bottomsup said:


> LMAO! You said it. With your background. Your are a total idiot.


You have a reading comprehension problem.


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## Bottomsup (Jul 12, 2006)

Jolly Roger said:


> You have a reading comprehension problem.


Wow is that the best you can do?


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## Jonboater (Apr 26, 2010)

I had always heard that B5 can increase your mileage but I could never tell much difference. Not anything more consistent than the affect of the wind anyway. i would no doubt run it every tank if it was available.

Get much above 5% and it does drop no doubt. My 05' duramax runs fine on B100 but it does drop the mileage. Not nearly as bad as E85 in a gasser though. Tried E85 in the Tahoe and I was amazed how much the mileage dropped. 10-12 on the hw was asking a lot!


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## williamcr (Aug 8, 2006)

Bottomsup said:


> Odd? Why is it odd? It runs smoother and gets better mileage. Costs me 1.00 per gallon. I will use it as long as I can get it because I know its better for my fuel system and the engine itself but hey if you like paying 4.00 a gallon for inferior fuel go ahead and do so.


Well to start I guess you are running used. I am sure you tested it for PCB's. If you are getting it used for $1 that is fine but new the price I had quoted this morning was $5.50 per gallon when buying 5000 gallons. Not for me. Not that it would ever happen but if a fuel sample was taken by a DPS officer he would be able to tell it was not diesel and if you told him it was mineral oil he would probably write you a ticket since I am sure you did not pay road and bridge tax on it. Most companys do not want this problem. But if i could get it for a $1 a gallon I would probably try my chances also.


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## Bottomsup (Jul 12, 2006)

Well to start with PCB's havent been used in the oil since 1982. You cant buy the oil that is contaminated with PCB's. If you pay the road tax its no different than running bio fuel. If you check the specs of the oil it contains almost zero sulfur and when its used for electrical insulating oil its refined to have almost zero contaminants. Mineral oil is baby oil with a scent added to it, used as a mold release agent in baking, used to make candy and fruit shiny, used in some cosmetics, used as a lubricant for food processing machines, etc. Real harmful stuff right? Sad part is that it is a byproduct of gasoline production produced in mass quantities yet makes for a better diesel fuel that what you get at the pump. Someone on this forum had it emissions tested and it passed with flying colors.


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## williamcr (Aug 8, 2006)

Bottomsup said:


> Well to start with PCB's havent been used in the oil since 1982. You cant buy the oil that is contaminated with PCB's. If you pay the road tax its no different than running bio fuel. If you check the specs of the oil it contains almost zero sulfur and when its used for electrical insulating oil its refined to have almost zero contaminants. Mineral oil is baby oil with a scent added to it, used as a mold release agent in baking, used to make candy and fruit shiny, used in some cosmetics, used as a lubricant for food processing machines, etc. Real harmful stuff right? Sad part is that it is a byproduct of gasoline production produced in mass quantities yet makes for a better diesel fuel that what you get at the pump. Someone on this forum had it emissions tested and it passed with flying colors.


I agree its good except for no lubrication properties. I also agree you cannot buy it with PCB's but you can still find it with PCB's. 
How many folks pay $5.50 a gallon plus road and bridge tax for transformer oil? I dam sure dont. $3.69 a gallon is plenty for me. I would not have a problem running it at all if I got it for $1 a gallon or better yet free. just add a little two stroke oil for the lubrication and you should be good to go. But dont think DPS will not watch certain companys that may have access to such thing and check their trucks. personal stuff you should plenty fine. I have run it in tractors plenty of times.


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## Bottomsup (Jul 12, 2006)

williamcr said:


> I agree its good except for no lubrication properties. I also agree you cannot buy it with PCB's but you can still find it with PCB's.
> How many folks pay $5.50 a gallon plus road and bridge tax for transformer oil? I dam sure dont. $3.69 a gallon is plenty for me. I would not have a problem running it at all if I got it for $1 a gallon or better yet free. just add a little two stroke oil for the lubrication and you should be good to go. But dont think DPS will not watch certain companys that may have access to such thing and check their trucks. personal stuff you should plenty fine. I have run it in tractors plenty of times.


Its has fine lubrication properties. Its used for lubricating commercial sewing machines, monograms, food processing machinery. Also know as white oil and it doesnt stain the clothing like other lubricants. It has much better lubrication than ultra low sulfur diesel at the pump and no need to add two stroke oil to it. I have logged over 100k on a Jeep Liberty Diesel, over 50k on a F250, around 40k on an Excursion, and unknown miles on a dump truck with zero fuel related issues. You cant buy oil with PCB new or used without an EPA license to burn it in an incinerator or refine it to remove the PCB. I worked for TU Electric for 10years and one of my job duties was to classify, document and ship PCB oil and dirt contaminated PCB oil to a disposal facility. I can see how the DPS or DOT would keep an eye on companies with access to the oil. I read an article in Diesel Power Magazine where the State Of Texas was filtering their used motor oil and burning it in their diesel trucks so I guess its OK for them to do so but not the individual.


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## williamcr (Aug 8, 2006)

Bottomsup said:


> Its has fine lubrication properties. Its used for lubricating commercial sewing machines, monograms, food processing machinery. Also know as white oil and it doesnt stain the clothing like other lubricants. It has much better lubrication than ultra low sulfur diesel at the pump and no need to add two stroke oil to it. I have logged over 100k on a Jeep Liberty Diesel, over 50k on a F250, around 40k on an Excursion, and unknown miles on a dump truck with zero fuel related issues. You cant buy oil with PCB new or used without an EPA license to burn it in an incinerator or refine it to remove the PCB. I worked for TU Electric for 10years and one of my job duties was to classify, document and ship PCB oil and dirt contaminated PCB oil to a disposal facility. I can see how the DPS or DOT would keep an eye on companies with access to the oil. I read an article in Diesel Power Magazine where the State Of Texas was filtering their used motor oil and burning it in their diesel trucks so I guess its OK for them to do so but not the individual.


I still see PCB oil. I did not say you can buy it. 
I work for a electrical testing company. There is a lot of 145KV bushings out there with PCB oil still in them.


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## Bottomsup (Jul 12, 2006)

williamcr said:


> I still see PCB oil. I did not say you can buy it.
> I work for a electrical testing company. There is a lot of 145KV bushings out there with PCB oil still in them.


Yes but the general public cant get their hands on it. Odd part is when I was at TU Electric they told us that it has never been proven that PCB causes cancer. The only reason it got classified as a hazardous material was because some was spilled and run into a creek and killed the fish. Well any oil that gets in water will kill the fish. One of our transformer truck drivers used to put it in his fuel tanks and at the time I though the was nuts but he claimed the truck loved it. Wish I had known what I know now because I could have got tons of it for free. They had a transformer turn over on a truck and dripped oil on the road for about a mile. The EPA made them dig up the road, dispose of the asphalt and base then repave it. The asphalt itself tested higher in PCB than the oil that was dripped on it.


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## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

I was under the impression there is a silicon based Transformer oil, and other types of transformer oils. With no good way of knowing what you have is mixed with one of the different oils unless you bought it new, or tested it. Either way it is not always clean unless new.


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## Bottomsup (Jul 12, 2006)

The transformer industry is going to a soy based oil. Can you say bio diesel? The used oil I purchase comes from one manufacturer so there is no chance of odd oils being mixed with it. I run it through a centrifuge and several 1 micron filters to make sure its clean and water free. I hope they never run out because I will run it until I die. The Jeep Liberty paid for itself just with the fuel savings.


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## williamcr (Aug 8, 2006)

There is a silicon based oil which is flame resistant and then there is one called Alpha 1 which is mineral base and it is flame resistant also. The alpha 1 can be mixed but the silicon cannot. However if you get access to transformer oil I am sure you will have a large quantity and you will know what you have 


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## Bottomsup (Jul 12, 2006)

williamcr said:


> There is a silicon based oil which is flame resistant and then there is one called Alpha 1 which is mineral base and it is flame resistant also. The alpha 1 can be mixed but the silicon cannot. However if you get access to transformer oil I am sure you will have a large quantity and you will know what you have
> 
> Sent from William's iPhone using Tapatalk


Correct but the so called flame resistant isnt very flame resistant because it runs great and **** near burnt down my shop.


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## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

williamcr said:


> There is a silicon based oil which is flame resistant and then there is one called Alpha 1 which is mineral base and it is flame resistant also. The alpha 1 can be mixed but the silicon cannot. However if you get access to transformer oil I am sure you will have a large quantity and you will know what you have
> 
> Sent from William's iPhone using Tapatalk


Back in the day, I would put most anything in a diesel it could smash and make fire. Myself and a lot of buddies were hauling cows burning some transformer oil and it killed one of the trucks. Come to find out he had got some "fire resistant" oil and the engine did not like it at all.

No way I would run any of it in a newer diesel of any kind. Not a good way of knowing what you are getting, and good chance it will be contaminated. Other then having you own centrifuge and perfect source, not a good idea.

Talking about transformer oil does bring back a bunch of memories from my wilder days. Had not thought about it in years.


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