# CEDAR RAPIDS, IOWA vs. NEW ORLEANS, LOUISIANA



## Snagged (May 21, 2004)

CEDAR RAPIDS, IOWA vs. NEW ORLEANS, LOUISIANA 


Have you all noticed that Cedar Rapids is under 10 feet of water. Thousands upon thousands of people are displaced? 

Have you noticed that nobody is looting every empty property in sight ? 

Have you noticed that nobody is shooting at rescuers? 

Have you noticed any victims on TV wondering where the federal government is to 'take care of them'? 

Or, have you noticed victims, who have lost everything, make comments like 'life goes on', 'we'll just need to pick up the pieces and start over', and 'at least we still have our life'. 

Maybe the Government could help make victims of these survivors as well, convince them that they aren't strong enough to take care of themselves, they're not smart enough to survive. Maybe we should subsidize their lives for the next 2+ years, free housing, $2000/month not to work.... Just food for thought..............


----------



## Bocephus (May 30, 2008)

The difference is your seeing hard working, middle class Americans that are self sufficient, and proud. Versus those that have been leeches on society their entire lives. And not only expect the Government to provide for them, but demand it.

Another reason for the bumper sticker on my truck that reads..."Republican - because not everyone can be on welfare"


----------



## freespool (Oct 1, 2005)

We where just talking about that at lunch the other day.
Nobody jumping up and down about you got fix my house, give me money, and so on and so forth.
Trouble was coming, they took what action they could and are now dealing with the aftermath.
Amazing.


----------



## mywifeshusband (Nov 19, 2006)

I have driven that area twice since the flooding started. I saw the road closures and high water. I think it commendable that most everything was done in an orderly way and even the elected officials were elbow to elbow with the community folks out there filling sand bags. 

The only negative comment I have heard was on a national news program.

God bless all those that have been touched by this flood, they will be fine, they are used to hard work.

Beau


----------



## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

There's no political gain to be had from jumping on board with somebody who refuses to be a victim.

On another note: take a look at this if you've got the time: it's another forum I check in on from time to time from one of my "other hobbies": This guy was right in the middle of it, and the whole forum was jumping on board to try to help him out. *THIS *is disaster relief, not FEMA debit cards.

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/showthread.php?t=159932


----------



## Newbomb Turk (Sep 16, 2005)

Where are all of the Hollywood celebrities holding telethons asking for help in restoring Iowa and helping the folks affected by the floods?

Where is all the media asking the tough questions about why the federal government hasn't solved the problem? Asking where the FEMA trucks (and trailers) are?

Why isn't the Federal Government relocating Iowa people to free hotels in Chicago?

When will Spike Lee say that the Federal Government blew up the levees that failed in Des Moines?

Where are Sean Penn and the Dixie Chicks?

Where are all the looters stealing high-end tennis shoes and big screen television sets?

When will we hear Governor Chet Culver say that he wants to rebuild a "vanilla" Iowa, because that's the way God wants it?

Where is the hysterical 24/7 media coverage complete with reports of cannibalism?

Where are the people declaring that George Bush hates white, rural people?

How come in 2 weeks, you will never hear about the Iowa flooding ever again?


----------



## gitchesum (Nov 18, 2006)

Where are the same people who ask why people are allowed to build houses in areas that are prone to flooding like they were when New Orleans flooded because of breached levees?


----------



## Snagged (May 21, 2004)

Cedar Rapids is NOT 11 feet below sea level.


----------



## gitchesum (Nov 18, 2006)

It doesn't matter. It still floods more than New Orleans.


----------



## Snagged (May 21, 2004)

Yes and no.
These peope aren't waiting foe someone else to save them. IE: they are adult human beings, not potential slaves.


----------



## bioteacher (Jul 12, 2006)

Just wrote a very negative post but decided change the tone to positive. I'm so glad that federal troops have not needed to be out confiscating firearms and that so far police officers have stayed on their posts to help. Sounds like common sense is prevailing.


----------



## bill (May 21, 2004)

No words


----------



## bill (May 21, 2004)

anyone want to guess where these were taken? Last pic is a hint


----------



## SSMike (Aug 15, 2005)

Where is Spike Lee calling out the government for blowing up the levees because Bush hates people from Iowa?


----------



## AceUpDJ (May 23, 2004)

Bill, you know the guy in the top left pic of your second set of pics? The one facing the camera, facing away from the three Guardsmen?
See the writing on the T-shirt? 
He is David Loop, Chief of the Crystal Beach, TX Volunteer Fire, Rescue, & EMS.


----------



## Bobby (May 21, 2004)

AceUpDJ said:


> Bill, you know the guy in the top left pic of your second set of pics? The one facing the camera, facing away from the three Guardsmen?
> See the writing on the T-shirt?
> He is David Loop, Chief of the *Crystal Beach, TX Volunteer Fire, Rescue, & EMS.*


Which after the first of August we won't have anymore.


----------



## bill (May 21, 2004)

yes, he went with our group to help over there


----------



## speckledred (Jun 1, 2004)

My hat is off to those whom went to help in LA, but understand that little or no one in NO one appreciated it. 

To those that help in the mid-west, those folks do appreciate the help, well done. You don't have to worry about being shot.


----------



## Roostor (Jul 17, 2006)

*God Helps Those.....*

That Help Themselves! And then there are those that....let's just say Stay in New Orleans and other "Wards"


----------



## Floundergig (Oct 17, 2004)

Something is still missing.......oh, I remember now......I haven't seen a looter dude in Iowa .............
Hang in there buckeyes .....you will survive


----------



## gater (May 25, 2004)

*New Orleans*

Sound like a bunch of racist....on a scale you can't compare the two, like night and day. Snagged do you really think the people of New Orleans are that bad and deserve your azznine comments! Gater


----------



## w_r_ranch (Jan 14, 2005)

Floundergig said:


> Something is still missing.......oh, I remember now......I haven't seen a looter dude in Iowa .............Hang in there buckeyes .....you will survive


 Flounder, the 'Buckeyes' are Ohio, not Iowa. I believe you meant 'Hawkeyes'.









 



gator said:


> Sound like a bunch of racist....on a scale you can't compare the two, like night and day.


And you sound like you are in denial.

Both places flooded... one did nothing but whine & complain and the other one didn't. One is/was crime ridden & the other isn't.

Yep, lik night & day....


----------



## KoolAU79 (Apr 15, 2008)

gater said:


> Sound like a bunch of racist....on a scale you can't compare the two, like night and day. Snagged do you really think the people of New Orleans are that bad and deserve your azznine comments! Gater


Racists??? Nope, just the facts. Usually that's the first statement out of someones mouth with a weak argument....."Racists, ******** etc." Wake up.

Please, enligthen us with this huge "night and day" you speak of.


----------



## MEGABITE (May 21, 2004)

Hold on guys, he's breaking out another deck of race cards, he'll be right back.


----------



## WESTTU (May 23, 2007)

Where was this picture taken?

my favorite


----------



## 535 (May 23, 2004)

A dozen or so casualties vs. a _couple thousand_? I would consider that a "night and day" difference... but there are definitely more... A hurricane vs a rising river that has so much historical data the volume of rain makes it easy to predict when where and how high the river will get. The population of NOLA is double the population of Cedar Rapids. There are some really significant differences. One thing everybody seems to ignore is that the coastal communities have always had a percentage of people that insist on riding storms out and always have because statistically your chance for survival is very good... people that live on a river KNOW is enough rain falls, the house goes under and you most likely drown... and if anybody thinks that FEMA doesn't sweep in with emergency aid, etc. after a flood in a predominantly white area of the country, they are mistaken... same thing goes on year after year wherever people of any race lose their homes and property to natural disasters in the U.S.

jc


----------



## rambunctious (May 30, 2004)

*Flood*

Showed on tv this morning lined up to get food stamps. Saw one WHITE in the whole line. Racest [no] Cold hard facts on TV.
Terry


----------



## Snagged (May 21, 2004)

gater said:


> Sound like a bunch of racist....on a scale you can't compare the two, like night and day. Snagged do you really think the people of New Orleans are that bad and deserve your azznine comments! Gater


 Not hardly racist, just an example of those who, in general, support and take care of themselves and those who expect others to take care of them.
The 9th ward is another prime example of socialist failure.


----------



## TheSamarai (Jan 20, 2005)

I think that some sort of aid that is offered to New Orleans will probably be offered to Iowa, but not to the same scale. FEMA just does not have enough money for the same handouts. Sometimes it just sucks to be the second national natural diaster. As for the comments of New Orleans, people there do appreciate the aid and are trying there best with the recovery process. What you see on the daily news in not indicative of what's happening down there.


----------



## MEGABITE (May 21, 2004)

If FEMA would've cut off the moochers 2 years ago there'd be plenty of $$.


----------



## SSMike (Aug 15, 2005)

Snagged said:


> Not hardly racist, just an example of those who, in general, support and take care of themselves and those who expect others to take care of them.
> The 9th ward is another prime example of socialist failure.


The 9th ward got all the attention because people were calling the government racist etc. There were plenty of upper close homes flooded and destroyed but that is not where the focus from the media and Spike Lee went... The hardest hit was Mississippi but the focus was N.O.

It was always about minorities.... The news made it seem like there was not a single white person living in New Orleans... Look up the demographics for New Orleans before Katrina.... 65% white. I guess Bush somehow got all the white people out before the slow moving hurricane and left everyone else.... Local, State, then if you can handle you business you call in the federal government.


----------



## coxhw (Jun 7, 2007)

While reading the post something that came to mind is, there is not one comment about all the money sent overseas to help people that will in time take up arms against the US. If I were to just take a guess the money we spend over seas we could add another ten feet to the leaves on the Miss and still have enough to give everyone in the US a tax break. Just think of all the fuel the US uses to get the supplies to these people??? Might just drop the price of gas.


----------



## txranger (Jun 23, 2005)

jc said:


> A hurricane vs a rising river that has so much historical data the volume of rain makes it easy to predict when where and how high the river will get.


 Nuthin for nuthin, but aren't they located on the same river?


----------



## mfarmer (Feb 7, 2007)

great post. i had been wondering the same for a while now.


----------



## bzrk180 (Jan 7, 2008)

I was recently instructed in Graduate school to read a book written by Ruby Payne called _A Framework for Understanding Poverty._ She is from Highlands and is married to a man who is from many generations of poverty. Now, I was resistant to reading this book as I have been working with people in poverty for almost half my life in one fashion or another. I will tell you this too...I was absolutely amazed by this book. It explains in a reasoned way that makes sense how people who are raised in *generational poverty* view and work in the world. Its not an exuse or in any way making the actions of others OK but I can honestly say that by the end of the book, I understood why those people didnt leave New Orleans and why it unfolded like it did.

I know its so much easier for us to look from the outside of an issue and put our opinions in the mix as facts but every action (in my opinion) has a root and when people can locate the root of a problem, the problem can be addressed. When only reacting to the results of the root, we pass judgment and assign blame outside of ourselves.

A good book for any of those that are interested and a good read for those who are asking all of these "why" questions.


----------



## KoolAU79 (Apr 15, 2008)

jc said:


> A dozen or so casualties vs. a _couple thousand_? I would consider that a "night and day" difference... but there are definitely more... A hurricane vs a rising river that has so much historical data the volume of rain makes it easy to predict when where and how high the river will get. The population of NOLA is double the population of Cedar Rapids. There are some really significant differences. One thing everybody seems to ignore is that the coastal communities have always had a percentage of people that insist on riding storms out and always have because statistically your chance for survival is very good... people that live on a river KNOW is enough rain falls, the house goes under and you most likely drown... and if anybody thinks that FEMA doesn't sweep in with emergency aid, etc. after a flood in a predominantly white area of the country, they are mistaken... same thing goes on year after year wherever people of any race lose their homes and property to natural disasters in the U.S.
> 
> jc


yada yada yada......not a "night and day" difference at all, sorry. The "night and day" difference is obvious to many people though.


----------



## txranger (Jun 23, 2005)

jc said:


> A dozen or so casualties vs. a _couple thousand_? I would consider that a "night and day" difference... but there are definitely more... A hurricane vs a rising river that has so much historical data the volume of rain makes it *easy to predict* *when where and how high the river will get*. The population of NOLA is double the population of Cedar Rapids. There are some really significant differences. One thing everybody seems to ignore is that the coastal communities have always had a percentage of people that insist on riding storms out and always have because statistically your chance for survival is very good... people that live on a river KNOW is enough rain falls, the house goes under and you most likely drown... and if anybody thinks that FEMA doesn't sweep in with emergency aid, etc. after a flood in a predominantly white area of the country, they are mistaken... same thing goes on year after year wherever people of any race lose their homes and property to natural disasters in the U.S.
> 
> jc


 You're kidding, right? It is about as easy to predict where and how much the Mississippi River will rise and flood as it is to predict how much of a tidal surge a storm will produce. That is to say, there is no ryhme or reason to either. And alot of people in those flooded towns do not have flood insurance because FEMA told them they didn't need it since they are protected by levees, which failed. Now they have nothing. I haven't seen any FEMA trailers headed towards the Midwest yet. And since billions of dollars of farmland has been ruined, we all will feel that.


----------



## Main Frame 8 (Mar 16, 2007)

bzrk180 said:


> I was recently instructed in Graduate school to read a book written by Ruby Payne called _A Framework for Understanding Poverty._ She is from Highlands and is married to a man who is from many generations of poverty. Now, I was resistant to reading this book as I have been working with people in poverty for almost half my life in one fashion or another. I will tell you this too...I was absolutely amazed by this book. It explains in a reasoned way that makes sense how people who are raised in *generational poverty* view and work in the world. Its not an exuse or in any way making the actions of others OK but I can honestly say that by the end of the book, I understood why those people didnt leave New Orleans and why it unfolded like it did.
> 
> I know its so much easier for us to look from the outside of an issue and put our opinions in the mix as facts but every action (in my opinion) has a root and when people can locate the root of a problem, the problem can be addressed. When only reacting to the results of the root, we pass judgment and assign blame outside of ourselves.
> 
> A good book for any of those that are interested and a good read for those who are asking all of these "why" questions.


 One could argue that that book is a documented set of opinions. Everyone will have verying opinions on this topic.


----------



## Main Frame 8 (Mar 16, 2007)

*In need of FEMA assistance*

With all of those corn crops flooded and ruined, can a brother get a deer corn check from FEMA to help offset filling up my feeders?

It's a downhill effect you know.


----------



## Free_loader (Nov 4, 2004)

Main Frame 8 said:


> With all of those corn crops flooded and ruined, can a brother get a deer corn check from FEMA to help offset filling up my feeders?
> 
> It's a downhill effect you know.


 ^5

.


----------



## 535 (May 23, 2004)

Main Frame 8 said:


> One could argue that that book is a documented set of opinions. Everyone will have verying opinions on this topic.


yes, one can argue uneducated opinion against actual social _sciences_ that have undergonehundreds of years of the refinement, criticism, peer review, etc... its done all the time...


----------



## 535 (May 23, 2004)

KoolAU79 said:


> yada yada yada......not a "night and day" difference at all, sorry. The "night and day" difference is obvious to many people though.


oh yeah, its all good as long as you don't bust out on the "n" word... way to lay it between the lines...


----------



## AquaMan45 (Oct 9, 2007)

*I lived there*

I grew up in Iowa, I was there in the last flood of '93. My family was slightly affected by both. This one is worse as far as the as the widespread damage. The cost to the United States economy as a whole is going to be sufficient from various avenues. Life goes on and yes rebuilding does occur. Gov't money from the state and federal levels are dealt with in a manner that betters everything possible with none wasted. There is nothing you can do about mother nature, you move on with your life not expecting help other than family and friends. No empathy is needed to "do your part". There are no cheerleaders, activists, or intruders- just helpers and helpers that are welcomed with open arms and a cold beverage after a long days work. Appreciatve of the help that is received.


----------



## rvj (May 14, 2006)

*Really*



rambunctious said:


> Showed on tv this morning lined up to get food stamps. Saw one WHITE in the whole line. Racest [no] Cold hard facts on TV.
> Terry


 Thats what the media wanted you to see, so you can do exactly what you are doing now. White people are in line for aid or as you call it welfare also. And if its available and they need it, fine, go get it. take another look.

http://www.courierpress.com/news/2008/jun/14/flood-victims-give-relief-center-a-workout/


----------



## KoolAU79 (Apr 15, 2008)

jc said:


> oh yeah, its all good as long as you don't bust out on the "n" word... way to lay it between the lines...


Yep, all good. Facts are just facts, nothing less nothing more. Way to try and put words in my mouth..... So, got your vote for Obama in yet?:wink:


----------



## KoolAU79 (Apr 15, 2008)

Not trying to stir the pot further but I have gotten about 50 of these two emails from many different types of people(most are Government or Military). Anyone else getting that many of these two?

*IOWA VS LOUISIANA**
**

Have you all noticed that Cedar Rapids is under 10 feet of water. Thousands upon thousands of people are displaced?

Have you noticed that nobody is looting every empty property in site?

Have you noticed that nobody is shooting at rescuers?

Have you noticed any victims on TV wondering where the federal government is 
to 'take care of them'?

Or, have you noticed victims, who have lost everything, make comments like 'life goes on', 'we'll just need to pick up the pieces and start over', and 'at least we still have our life'. *

*Maybe we should subsidize their lives for the next 2+ years, free housing, $2000/month to not work.... *


*HAVE YOU ALL NOTICED THAT THE DIFFERENCE IS AS PLAIN AS BLACK AND WHITE????

Just food for thought*

and this one:

*Just wondering...**
*

*Where are all of the Hollywood celebrities holding telethons asking for help in restoring Iowa and helping the folks affected by the floods?

Where is all the media asking the tough questions about why the federal government hasn't solved the problem? Asking where the FEMA trucks (and trailers) are?

Why isn't the Federal Government relocating Iowa people to free hotels in Chicago?

When will Spike Lee say that the Federal Government blew up the levees that failed in Des Moines?

Where are Sean Penn and the Dixie Chicks?

Where are all the looters stealing high-end tennis shoes and big screen television sets?

When will we hear Governor Chet Culver say that he wants to rebuild a "vanilla" Iowa, because that's the way God wants it?

Where is the hysterical 24/7 media coverage complete with reports of cannibalism?

Where are the people declaring that George Bush hates white, rural people?

How come in 2 weeks, you will never hear about the Iowa flooding ever again? 
*


----------



## 535 (May 23, 2004)

KoolAU79 said:


> Not trying to stir the pot further but I have gotten about 50 of these two emails from many different types of people(most are Government or Military). Anyone else getting that many of these two?


yes, crazy-uncle-emails are unavoidable...


----------



## mywifeshusband (Nov 19, 2006)

*FEMA TRAILERS*

I just came thru Ms. on I59 yesterday and there is plenty of trailers left over. This is 15 miles south of Hattisburg on hundreds on acres and what looked like thousands of trailers that could still be used instead of being wasted. On the poverty deal i have seen people go from having everything to having nothing and people with nothing to being on top of the world. Beau


----------



## bzrk180 (Jan 7, 2008)

Main Frame 8 said:


> One could argue that that book is a documented set of opinions. Everyone will have verying opinions on this topic.


One can argue anything if one is so completely set in their ways that they wont even look at evidence supported documentation. The writer of this book holds a Ph.D. (which I know doesnt always mean anything...Buuuuut) and has been identified as

*"The leading U.S. expert on the mindset of poverty, middle class and wealth"*

Those who would argue her points would be best suited to be informed and not just go on their specific beliefs and ideas.

As I stated before, this book does not make the actions of people OK or give excuses for those actions. What this book does is line out in such a way that one could see and MAYBE "understand" why people in generational poverty do the things they do... (which is largely what people in this thread are talking about).

What my statement in regards to this was after reading the book, I UNDERSTAND why those people didnt leave and why they took the actions they took. The book also lines out how our "system" has created this type of belief system....

I guess my point is this....If you really want to know why "those people" did the things they did...If you really are so intreigued (sp?) by why people didnt leave or relied on others to get them through all of what took place, educate yourself and see why instead of simply passing judgment on others because it isnt what you would do, it isnt what those people in Iowa are doing, it isnt what those people in the Tsunami did... Nothing happens from accident...there is meaning behind all of it.


----------



## Snagged (May 21, 2004)

bzrk180 said:


> I was recently instructed in Graduate school to read a book written by Ruby Payne called _A Framework for Understanding Poverty._ She is from Highlands and is married to a man who is from many generations of poverty. Now, I was resistant to reading this book as I have been working with people in poverty for almost half my life in one fashion or another. I will tell you this too...I was absolutely amazed by this book. It explains in a reasoned way that makes sense how people who are raised in *generational poverty* view and work in the world. Its not an exuse or in any way making the actions of others OK but I can honestly say that by the end of the book, I understood why those people didnt leave New Orleans and why it unfolded like it did.
> 
> I know its so much easier for us to look from the outside of an issue and put our opinions in the mix as facts but every action (in my opinion) has a root and when people can locate the root of a problem, the problem can be addressed. When only reacting to the results of the root, we pass judgment and assign blame outside of ourselves.
> 
> A good book for any of those that are interested and a good read for those who are asking all of these "why" questions.


 I grew up in the Detroit slums and do understand what the word "poor" means I also understand that too many won't help themselves because they don't have to.
Look at numerous families that come to this country with little more than the clothes on their backs and manage to better themselves.
Helping someone out through a ruff period is good, enabling a bunch of lazy leaches to live and breed is not.
Give them the choice of work or starve and see what happens.


----------



## MikeV (Jun 5, 2006)

bzrk180 said:


> One can argue anything if one is so completely set in their ways that they wont even look at evidence supported documentation. The writer of this book holds a Ph.D. (which I know doesnt always mean anything...Buuuuut) and has been identified as
> 
> *"The leading U.S. expert on the mindset of poverty, middle class and wealth"*
> 
> ...


THE leading U.S. expert? Who decided that? What criteria were used? How do you determine who has the leading opinion on something? The leading U.S. expert on poverty, the middle class, AND wealth. Wow. Who is the leading U.S. expert of the NFL?


----------



## aggie82josh (Mar 16, 2007)

Snagged said:


> I grew up in the Detroit slums and do understand what the word "poor" means I also understand that too many won't help themselves because they don't have to.
> Look at numerous families that come to this country with little more than the clothes on their backs and manage to better themselves.
> Helping someone out through a ruff period is good, enabling a bunch of lazy leaches to live and breed is not.
> *Give them the choice of work or starve and see what happens*.


They would steal :headknock


----------



## Snagged (May 21, 2004)

aggie82josh said:


> They would steal :headknock


Not when the penality is great enough. You live in the slums and you learn not to mess with those that will waste you.


----------



## KoolAU79 (Apr 15, 2008)

jc said:


> yes, crazy-uncle-emails are unavoidable...


:cheers:

Well I just wish the best for those people in Iowa, all of them, and hope they soon recover from this.


----------



## bzrk180 (Jan 7, 2008)

I responded directly below in blue...Sorry if I rambled.



Snagged said:


> I grew up in the Detroit slums and do understand what the word "poor" means>>>>>>>>>>>> This is exactly my point. If people will inform themselves a bit more, maybe this will become clearer. I understand your frustration. "Poor" and "generational poverty" are much different. Those who are "poor" are simply those you would rate at below poverty level and are the working class (basically). "Generational poverty" are those who are three and four generations of "poor" who never took action to make their life different.
> 
> We are what we are taught, EVERYTHING we know is learned and when you have 3, 4, 5, 10 generations of people who live a life of poverty, once the third generation is born into that then this is the only way they know about life or how it operates. When I was on the streets in the late 90's to early 2001, I was dealing with some 6-8 generations of poverty in Dickinson and San Leon.
> 
> ...


----------



## bzrk180 (Jan 7, 2008)

MikeV said:


> THE leading U.S. expert? Who decided that? What criteria were used? How do you determine who has the leading opinion on something? The leading U.S. expert on poverty, the middle class, AND wealth. Wow. Who is the leading U.S. expert of the NFL?


Who decided that? >>>>>>>>The _Washington Post _(I thin that was the source) as well as the publishing company.

What criteria were used? How do you determine who has the leading opinion on something?>>>>>>>>> by critical articles, reviews of research and established valuable debates over topics and issues. Time and dedication to the field and writing alot of books (I think this woman has written 12 in this field)

The leading U.S. expert on poverty, the middle class, AND wealth. Wow.>>>>>>>>> Agreed...A woman who is aparently exptremely dedicated and passionate in this area. Just about anything you see on the news or on topics of discussion that are valid and offer educated and researched opinions are labeled in this fashion. That goes for those you side with and those you dont.

Who is the leading U.S. expert of the NFL?>>>>>>>>>>>> I have a guy I know who will tell you he is. Now I dont think the Washington Post or any publishing company concurs wit that but he believes it! LOL!!


----------



## bzrk180 (Jan 7, 2008)

Snagged said:


> Not when the penality is great enough. You live in the slums and you learn not to mess with those that will waste you.


Apparently you have not spent much time in the "slums." People in the "slums" live life every day knowing thatthe possibility of being "wasted" is there. As a matter of fact, its not even an issue that concerns them. All they are concerned about is "NOW" and dont look at life past their noses...They cant, it would not benefit their survival.

Once again, to assume that people who live in a generational poverty see the world like you do is like thinking that those people in Eldorado at that compound see it like you do.

I had a guy who was speaking to me yesterday about the command presence of police officers. I explained to him that we have a command presence when we deal with the average everyday joe simply because of the handcuffs on our blets and the guns we carry. Neither of those two objects are of concern to those who are raised in the "slums" so the way I had to deal with people in the projects was completely different than the way I dealt with peope in South Shore Harbour...Make sense?


----------



## Slightly Dangerous (May 21, 2004)

Brad, you have written some truly poignant and lucid views on this issue. It is quite apparent that you experience first-hand the horrors of ghetto life and the dog-chasing-its-tail syndrome of such. However (don't you love that word), our continued enabling of such abhorrent lifestyle should not be allowed as if "C'est la vie" is the last word on the subject.

If it is true that bad flourishes in the absence of action by good, then we need to open such action for all to see and to comment on and to call it despicable because it is. We need to forget political correctness and make those people see themselves for what they truly are and see that we are ashamed of them and do not want them in our society as they are now. But that is not what we do. What we do in our "modern" society is search for the underlying factors and use those factors as a crutch for continued poor results, not for improvement.

I applaud all those who step up and say out loud that they don't like what is happening and reason be dammed. Everyone has a story for poor performance...it's what they do next that counts.


----------



## roundman (May 21, 2004)

MEGABITE said:


> If FEMA would've cut off the moochers 2 years ago there'd be plenty of $$.


 there was a lot of moochers here too during rita,, there were plenty that got that 2000.00 that didnt even evacuate! i was one of those on the yellow school buses that went from galveston to huntsville. we were taken to the huntsville high school and there were some that first thing outta their mouths was WHERES MY 2 GRAND while other helped out around with the school personel cooking meals etc during our 3-4 day stay. one day they sat up a table and put out some tolitries etc, a guy brought some stuff in a gym bag with a sports logo on it , sat the stuff on the table , put the bag to the side and walked off, some a h*#@ picked it up and was walking off with it until i busted him, they had some army reserve there that didnt put up with no [email protected]@ !they told him 1 more screw up and he was outside walking ! they had another they did send walking, i didnt catch what he did but the jus took him to the door and said good luck. there was also a flasher there that flashed a kid,, the grabed him and had to keep him under lock and key ( i think for his safety) im sure he ended up in jail. the huntsville high school staff was great and i sent them a big thank you card when i got home and hope some others did too.


----------



## 535 (May 23, 2004)

haha, I am being sued personally for $250,000 on a Rita claim... some real class act moochers in SE Texas... and trust me, they come in all colors but they are fixated on green... just like in South Texas, The Panhandle, The Valley and I am sure Cedar Rapids, Iowa


----------



## 535 (May 23, 2004)

haha, I am being sued personally for $250,000 on a Rita claim... I met some real class act moochers in SE Texas... trust me, they come in all colors but they are fixated on green.. just lke the ones in South Texas, The Hill Country, The Panhandle, NOLA and I am sure Cedar Rapids, Iowa


----------



## Snagged (May 21, 2004)

bzrk180 said:


> Apparently you have not spent much time in the "slums."


 Things may have changed in 50 years, but I doubt it.


----------



## bzrk180 (Jan 7, 2008)

I responded below in blue.



Slightly Dangerous said:


> Brad, you have written some truly poignant and lucid views on this issue. It is quite apparent that you experience first-hand the horrors of ghetto life and the dog-chasing-its-tail syndrome of such.>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, I try to make sure I elaborate on my experience and I dont know if there is a better teacher than that.
> 
> However (don't you love that word), our continued enabling of such abhorrent lifestyle should not be allowed as if "C'est la vie" is the last word on the subject.>>>>>>>>>>> Absolutely agreed and if you go back to my original post, I in no way make the behaviours of the people justified or OK and neither does the book I am speaking of. However (yes, I love this word) for one to truly deal with an issue, one would be best served to know the root of the issue and why it is like it is before going and trying to answer to that issue. By moving forward on something that you only have "face value" information about, this can, and usually does end in disaster. My post here is to answer to the original post which asked "why" and there are issues much deeper seeted than what many of us believe in this thread. Its an issue that will continue to be around until we see where it comes from and why it is that way. When we are clear on the root then a clear plan can be established to institute change.
> 
> ...


----------



## bzrk180 (Jan 7, 2008)

Snagged said:


> Things may have changed in 50 years, but I doubt it.


Uh, yeah....50 years has involved ALOT of change...Not just in "slums" but in society in general.

Take alook at the violent crime increase in the last 50 years...look at the rise of gangs in the last 50 years....look at the increased firepower in both law enforcement and offenders, and rights that have changed in the last 50 years...Dont doubt it because it is evident there is MUCH change that has taken place in 50 years.


----------



## bzrk180 (Jan 7, 2008)

Funny how this addiction to forums feeds you sometimes...

I was thinking about this interaction in this particular post and wanted to add something to this. Now, in regards to the looting, raping, and various henious acts; those I see as unacceptable and is something that should be addressed but in regards to where are the stars and the telethons... where is the media asking tough questions...where is the fed govt relocating people...where is the 24 hour news coverage...

Have we forgotten something here?

Do you recall that those people were *directed *and *ordered* to go to the superdome by the govt, city, mayor, etc... and told this was the safest place for them to go (dont we kinda rely on our governemt and leaders to keep us safe? Didnt everyone in Houston do what the government and leaders told them to do when evacuating Houston?)

Do you recall that when those people got to where they were told they would be safe that there was no adequate resources for survival or protection for those people?

Do you recall the news coverage where people were *PLEADING* for their lives because they were dying of *starvation *and *dehydration *on the city streets of New Orleans in the United States of America while the powers that directed them were either out of town or in a hotel somewhere?

Do you recall that there were young girls who were raped in the bathrooms of the location they were told to find safe harbour.

Do you recall that there were people dying in their rooftops as the heat and water slowly suffocated them?

Do you recall the people dying in wheel chairs and the mother that was holding a dying baby in her arms pleading to the media to please get help to her baby?

Do you recall the wheelchairs that held dead loved ones that had to be left behind on some roadway or bridge with a simple blanket covering them because that is the only amount of "respect" that could be afforded them and had to do this so they could save themselves?

Do you recall that we watched all of this from television news cameras and helicopters as it was taking place?

What took place in New Orleans is a disgrace to us as the *most powerful nation in the world*. People were dying in the middle of the streets as we watched them die. I am not sure about you guys but I vividly remember the incident and was astonished that this was happening. Stars showed up, people screamed and yelled, telethons were held to try and help those people all because it was an atrocity that we "shouldnt" have let happen.

I assure you, if those people in Iowa were directed to go to a particular place by the "powers that be" and then left to survive on their own with no available resources and people were dying in the streets in front of us, we would be just as actively pursuing assistance as we did then.

Again, looting, killing, burglarizing, acts of violence on others...That is completely unacceptable but I think we should step back and look at what happened that led up to that.

I hope that I, as a proud American citizen will never again see a day where the CITIZENS (on welfare or not...CITIZENS) of this country are standing on the streets of this country while the rest of the country is watching them die slowly, painfully and watching them as they were pleading for help from those who led them to where they were....That is an *atrocity*!

Are we so ashamed of the way that this all unfolded that we want to reason this away by pointing fingers at specific people? Are we so disgraced by the actions of our government to rescue those in such dire distress that we put the blame of those who were distressed?

Again, as with other posts, this is simply my opinion.


----------



## MEGABITE (May 21, 2004)

I recall there was a mandatory evacuation a couple days ahead of the storm.
Why wasn't it heeded?


----------



## bzrk180 (Jan 7, 2008)

MEGABITE said:


> I recall there was a mandatory evacuation a couple days ahead of the storm.
> Why wasn't it heeded?


If I recall right, it was given and also explained that for those who couldnt evacuate and get out of the city, the superdome would be the safe place to be and people were DIRECTED to go there.

Even so, even if they didnt or werent able to evacuate does that make it reasonable to allow people to suffer and die on the streets of a City?

So because the people are stubborn, or poor, indigent, unable, handicapped, etc....So because those people are those things, its OK for us to allow people to suffer, die and be attacked after they were promised safe refuge?


----------



## TheSamarai (Jan 20, 2005)

Mandatory evacuation? Did you see what the mandatory evacuation did to us during Rita. 12 hours in line to get 5 miles. Luckily I turned back and weathered the storm. Same thing happened in New Orleans, alot of people turned back hoping to weather out the storm. Unfortunately they were not as fortunate with the city under water. Basic services were down for weeks after the storm.


----------



## Snagged (May 21, 2004)

Why don't you quit making excuses for those too lazy to help themselves?
Take a look at what is happening in Cedar Rapids.
Drive through NO and they still haven't cleaned anything up.


----------



## MEGABITE (May 21, 2004)

TheSamarai said:


> Mandatory evacuation? Did you see what the mandatory evacuation did to us during Rita. 12 hours in line to get 5 miles. Luckily I turned back and weathered the storm. Same thing happened in New Orleans, alot of people turned back hoping to weather out the storm. Unfortunately they were not as fortunate with the city under water. Basic services were down for weeks after the storm.


Yeah, I sure did. How many tens of thousands of people were able to get out of town hmmm? Now imagine if they would've called for it 3 days ahead like
in N.O. There is a thing called personal responsibility.


----------



## MEGABITE (May 21, 2004)

bzrk180 said:


> If I recall right, it was given and also explained that for those who couldnt evacuate and get out of the city, the superdome would be the safe place to be and people were DIRECTED to go there.
> 
> Even so, even if they didnt or werent able to evacuate does that make it reasonable to allow people to suffer and die on the streets of a City?
> 
> So because the people are stubborn, or poor, indigent, unable, handicapped, etc....So because those people are those things, its OK for us to allow people to suffer, die and be attacked after they were promised safe refuge?


What do you mean ALLOW people to suffer and die? It was a natural disaster beyond anyone's control which surely wouldn't have been so catostophic if people would've left like they were told to. ESPECIALLY since they live in a city below sea level right on the coastline. We can sit here and make excuses and blame the gov't all day long. EVERYBODY is at fault, including the able bodied residents that didn't leave when told to.


----------



## Ckill (Mar 9, 2007)

While it is obviously to late to convince *bzrk180 *that what he is regurgitating is great in theory but not real life. Please don't make the mistake to believe that babble. Sure what happened in NO was horrific. Personal Responsibility is the key word no matter the background of the person.


----------



## bzrk180 (Jan 7, 2008)

Snagged said:


> Why don't you quit making excuses for those too lazy to help themselves?
> Take a look at what is happening in Cedar Rapids.
> Drive through NO and they still haven't cleaned anything up.


If you are referring to me, how is it I am making excuses for anyone? I am pointing out facts.

The thread asks specific questions from the OP and they are being answered to...I dont see where "excuses" were made for anything.


----------



## bzrk180 (Jan 7, 2008)

MEGABITE said:


> What do you mean ALLOW people to suffer and die? It was a natural disaster beyond anyone's control which surely wouldn't have been so catostophic if people would've left like they were told to. ESPECIALLY since they live in a city below sea level right on the coastline. We can sit here and make excuses and blame the gov't all day long. EVERYBODY is at fault, including the able bodied residents that didn't leave when told to.


What do you mean ALLOW people to suffer and die?>>>>>>>>>>>>> We sat and watched those people die from helicopters that had the capability to assist. We had reporters ont he ground that were filming that child as that mother was holding on to him and people trying to fan air to him that could have taken that baby to a hospital. We have athe ability to have massive movement of troops to assist and FEMA dropped the ball. We allowed that to happen because everyone was so busty pointoing fingers at everyone else to cast blame, those who were suffering were forced to suffer longer (Again, this is my opinion)

It was a natural disaster beyond anyone's control >>>>>>>>>>>> Agreed, the disater was out of our control...Our reaction to the disater WAS in our control and we witnessed what happened. I wonder what our response time was to the people in the Tsunami?

surely wouldn't have been so catostophic if people would've left like they were told to>>>>>>>>>> Again, as in my original response to the thread...The book I referred to explained to me WHY those people stayed and remember, many of those people did not have the capability to leave and were told they would be safe if they went to where they were directed. Sorry, if I couldnt kleave a city and was directed by those powers to go to a place for safety and then my daughter, sister, mother or wife was raped, although I dont believe in "victims" I can surely believe how a person could feel victimized.

EVERYBODY is at fault, including the able bodied residents that didn't leave when told to>>>>>>>>>>>>> EVERBODY!!! Exactly!! so those who felt they were a part of this also felt they needed to be part of the resolution of that...Hence, stars showing up, benefits being held, news reporters asking questions...All of those things. I remember the feeling of helplessness I had watching that and worked to get a couple of truckloads of supplies to go help these people only to find the govt was refusing entry into the city. As many of you like to say, we are all Americans and we should all stick together....Until its the residents of New Orleans and then they dont matter. How hypocritical is that?


----------



## MEGABITE (May 21, 2004)

We have alot of the same opinions on this issue but I think your stance that
because it was New Orleans and the citizens were black had something to
do with the Gov't dropping the ball and/or the alledged lack of help is way
off. But opinions vary and you're entitled to yours.


Speaking of, don't you recall all the Texas cities welcoming the evacuees? Remember the Astrodome filled? Don't they get any credit for that? What about the food and clothes drives and the endless donations? Telethons? Rebuilding, assistance, people taking familes into their homes, etc...


----------



## bzrk180 (Jan 7, 2008)

Ckill said:


> While it is obviously to late to convince *bzrk180 *that what he is regurgitating is great in theory but not real life. Please don't make the mistake to believe that babble. Sure what happened in NO was horrific. Personal Responsibility is the key word no matter the background of the person.


While it is obviously to late to convince *bzrk180 *that what he is regurgitating is great in theory but not real life.>>>>>>>>>>>>Hmmmmm, is that so? I think if we reflect on the things we know in life now, they were all once based on a theory so dont discount "theories".

Also, simply because you refuse to accept anything other than what you personally believe, dont label me the same way. I am open to any discussion especially if it is logically put together and not simply something based on your thoughts alone. Even then, put it to me in such a way that makes sense, and I am always open to look at things differently.

Please don't make the mistake to believe that babble.>>>>>>>>>>>> And what is it exactly that I have stated here that is "babble"...I would beinterested to hear what it is that makes it "babble"


----------



## bzrk180 (Jan 7, 2008)

MEGABITE said:


> We have alot of the same opinions on this issue but I think your stance that
> because it was New Orleans and the citizens were black had something to
> do with the Gov't dropping the ball and/or the alledged lack of help is way
> off. But opinions vary and you're entitled to yours.
> ...


because it was New Orleans and the citizens were black had something to
do with the Gov't dropping the ball and/or the alledged lack of help is way
off. >>>>>>>>> No, I never even stated color or ethnicity...That is your interpretation. I dont think it was because it was any of that...I dont think there was any illl intent on anyones part in relationship to trying to handle this "pre" storm...What I do bring light to is what happened afterwards and I dont care if they are yellow, black, green, or purple...They are first of all HUMAN BEINGS and secondly American Citizens.

Texas cities welcoming the evacuees? Don't they get any credit for that? What about the food and clothes drives
and the endless donations? Telethons? Rebuilding, etc>>>>>>>>>>>> This issue was never brought up and yes, I CLEARLY remember that. I also CLEARLY remember all of the BS that resulted in all of it but again, this was AFTER the disaster. I think credit should be given for every soul that stepped up to help just as I think every soul in Iowa should be acknoledged. The thread asked specific questions in regards to making Iowa "right" and New Orleans "wrong" in how THEY handled disaster...This is an apples and oranges comparrison in my opinion.


----------



## 535 (May 23, 2004)

I personally know an insurance adjuster who was in NOLA with art experts and blackwater... they were extracting $40 million collection as the water was rising... you'll never convince me that a good portion of the deaths couldn't have been prevented by a quick response... it is more difficult for our gov't to react than a well funded insurer... however, Katrina happened 3 years after 9/11 and we can see exactly how prepared we were to deal with a major event... quarantine is easy, we failed at getting help to citizens... things have definitely changed and we saw that when everybody evacuated for Rita... Katrina will certainly not be our last catastrophic disaster, but hopefully when the next one strikes EVERYBODY will be more prepared to deal with the aftermath...


----------



## MEGABITE (May 21, 2004)

Exactly, *and* heed the evacuations when a huge hurricane is heading right for you for self preservation.


----------



## bzrk180 (Jan 7, 2008)

jc said:


> Katrina will certainly not be our last catastrophic disaster, but hopefully when the next one strikes EVERYBODY will be more prepared to deal with the aftermath...


AMEN!


----------



## Lord of the Salmon (Feb 17, 2008)

Also, remember we didn't here all the New orleans *****ing and moaning from Biloxi or Gulf Port. As I recall, all they were really asking for was basic red cross aid (like bottled water, food, and some tent clinics).


----------



## Bobby (May 21, 2004)

Seems like everyone is blaming FEMA for not moving in as fast as they should. I understand that FEMA couldn't do a darn thing until asked by the Gov of La and the Mayor of NO. They (Gov and Mayor) didn't ask for anything till several days after the storm. Then FEMA moved fast.


----------



## Old Whaler (Sep 6, 2005)

Very true...Bumbling Blanco and Willy Wonka took their time in asking the feds for assistance


Bobby said:


> Seems like everyone is blaming FEMA for not moving in as fast as they should. I understand that FEMA couldn't do a darn thing until asked by the Gov of La and the Mayor of NO. They (Gov and Mayor) didn't ask for anything till several days after the storm. Then FEMA moved fast.


----------



## Snagged (May 21, 2004)

bzrk180 said:


> If you are referring to me, how is it I am making excuses for anyone? I am pointing out facts.
> 
> The thread asks specific questions from the OP and they are being answered to...I dont see where "excuses" were made for anything.


 You have a basic theme of "it was the governments fault" which is a copout for saying those directly affected did nothing for themselves and waited for the government to do it.
Some of the problems can be placed on the rotten "government" of NO, but who put those people in power?


----------



## bzrk180 (Jan 7, 2008)

Snagged said:


> You have a basic theme of "it was the governments fault" which is a copout for saying those directly affected did nothing for themselves and waited for the government to do it.
> Some of the problems can be placed on the rotten "government" of NO, but who put those people in power?


You have a basic theme of "it was the governments fault" >>>>>>>>>> Apparently you havent read the other posts I have in this thread (and I dont blame you, I can ramble on with the best of em. This is YOUR interpretation as I NEVER stated it was anyones fault individually. I never ponted blame at anyone specifically. We are a society and work together for a common good and when a breakdown of this magnitude takes place we all get to take reposibility for it. You might be WANTING me to take aim at something specific but there is nothisn "specific" about this incident. This is much larger than that and the ties to the whys, hows and what ifs are much deeper than 

"Well, them folks down in New Orleans...."

which is a copout for saying those directly affected did nothing for themselves and waited for the government to do it>>>>>>>>>> Again, YOUR interpretation. I never said what you claim here. You are putting words in my mouth and I dont need anyone to speak for me. If you have a point, a belief or whatever, use your own voice. If you go back and look at my posts on this, you will see that allI was doing was bringing a different perspective into this and attempting to broaden the understanding of the original questio which was "WHY"

but who put those people in power?>>>>>>>>>>>> My point exactly. This is not a "New Orleans" people vs. "Iowa people" thing. There are many factors that played into the New Orleans disaster that didnt or havent taken place in Iowa and the way this thread was going was (in my opinion) "look at these GREAT people in Iowa and how they are doing it. How come those idiots in New Olreans have done it the same way." Like I said before, its an apples and ornages comparrison on many levels.


----------



## Snagged (May 21, 2004)

Your wrong in respect to it is a NO verus CR people in that one group has shown itself to be unable to take care of itself and unwilling to take corrective action.
Or put it in easier terms people who work for a living verus those who who mooch off society.


----------



## bzrk180 (Jan 7, 2008)

wow....lets see, New Orleans....Completeley devestated, houses completely destroyed, tens of thousands of people displaced by being sent to other states all over the country...poor and no money to return to their home which is completely destroyed and in an area that is completely destroyed and unliveable...Yeah, your right, it is a New Orleans Vs Iowa people event...I am wrong, you are right... What was I thinking?


----------



## TOM GRAHAM (Mar 15, 2006)

bzrk180 said:


> ...Yeah, your right, it is a New Orleans Vs Iowa people event...I am wrong, you are right... What was I thinking?


FINALLY, THE MAN OPENED HIS EYES. NO MATTER WHAT YOUR BACKGROUND, ALL ANAMALS TAKE CARE OF THEMSELVES IN A FLOOD. EXCEPT OF COURSE, THOSE IN NEW ORLEANS.


----------



## w_r_ranch (Jan 14, 2005)

bzrk180 said:


> .Yeah, your right, it is a New Orleans Vs Iowa people event...I am wrong, you are right... What was I thinking?


 I've stayed out of this one up till now. I have agreed with Snagged's point of view throughout this thread, for the simple reason that he is dead on. You advocate "understanding" and the continuation of enabling deadbeats and that is just plain wrong. Personal responsibility is the key.

Brad, you have "said" a lot, yet failed to "say" anything relevant throughout this thread. You have failed to grasp the fact that one group relies on someone (anyone) else to fix their problems & the other group is self sufficient. That is the bottom line.

The above quote was the first thing that you have said that was in anyway "enlightened" so maybe there IS hope for you.


----------



## yakfishin (Dec 8, 2005)

*bzrk180,*
*In less than five words per question please give a direct non polictical response.*
*Do individuals have the responsiblity for themselves in LIFE?*
*Do both La. and Iowa both have levee systems in place?*
*Where both disasters caused by flooding not wind? *
*Where all homes that were and are flooded classified and unlivable?*
*Are you a Democrat? (just a question)*

I also stayed out of this conversation until now. But sometimes the babbling (rabbling), 
just makes me crazy. Reminds me to much of a Very Liberal Gov. teacher in College that would Never stated a direct statement.


----------



## State_Vet (Oct 10, 2006)

Very interesting post! The way I see it is, if the government assist one community after a disaster, they should assist every community after a disaster *at the same level of assistance*! For example if they give free $2,000 checks to one community don't offer interest free loans of $2,000 to another community.


----------



## bzrk180 (Jan 7, 2008)

labdog said:


> ALL *ANAMALS* TAKE CARE OF THEMSELVES IN A FLOOD. EXCEPT OF COURSE, THOSE IN NEW ORLEANS.


WOW!! I dont think I even know how to respond to this. I dont think it would make any difference anyway.


----------



## bzrk180 (Jan 7, 2008)

w_r_ranch said:


> Brad, you have "said" a lot, yet failed to "say" anything relevant throughout this thread. You have failed to grasp the fact that one group relies on someone (anyone) else to fix their problems & the other group is self sufficient. That is the bottom line.
> 
> The above quote was the first thing that you have said that was in anyway "enlightened" so maybe there IS hope for you.


WHat I posted in regards to the difference in how the lower socio economic levels of people view the world differently is relevant in much more of a way than you might think. Read the book, do a little research. Just because what I have said is not relevant to how you BELIEVE the world operates doesnt mean its irrelevant.

NOW I am enlightened huh? Again, there is much more to this issue than the surface cr*p you see on the news. This issue is seeted deeper in our society than what you may think or understand. Enligtenment is when someone thinks outside of the box and looks at something with more than the basic evidence that is in front of you. The evidence you see in news reports and television is not where the story begins or ends....EVER!


----------



## fishsmart (Dec 5, 2004)

Seems simple, the politicians want the resolute hard working people in Iowa to pay for the damage and ineptness in New Orleans.

Charles


----------



## bzrk180 (Jan 7, 2008)

yakfishin said:


> *bzrk180,*
> *In less than five words per question please give a direct non polictical response.*
> *Do individuals have the responsiblity for themselves in LIFE?*
> *Do both La. and Iowa both have levee systems in place?*
> ...


Typical....Someone who wants me to go by their rules to get the answers they want. I will play in this shallow game you are asking even if you cannot stick by your own rules...You ask a specific political question and ask me not to respond politically... Again, if this makes you feel better, I will respond as you asked

*In less than five words per question please give a direct non polictical response.*
*Do individuals have the responsiblity for themselves in LIFE?>>>>> Yes, in EVERYDAY life.*

*Do both La. and Iowa both have levee systems in place?>>>>> I dont know, enlighten me.*

*Where both disasters caused by flooding not wind?>>>>>>> Uhhhm, not completely.*

*Where all homes that were and are flooded classified and unlivable?>>>>> Depends on the severity *

*Are you a Democrat? (just a question)>>>> No, a trusting, caring, peaceful man. (sorry, 6 words)*

*hope this fullfills your needs to try and force your wanted answers.*

*Oh yeah....Happy monday folks!! LOL!!*


----------



## Snagged (May 21, 2004)

Hello,
Onalea and Michael¢s photos of their house, garage and property are posted on my youtube.com page. See the links below. Note there are two videos, part I and part ii.
As of Sunday, June 21, the basement and first floor where completely gutted down to the structure and Sunday evening and Monday was spent using a pressure washer to bleach spray the basement and first floor structures. The foundation still has the buckle and we are hoping that will let up. However, more rain is passing thru the area tonight. On Monday, Onalea called the city inspector to make an appointment to have the home inspected now that it is gutted and washed. The reply was, they are not making appointments, but rather taking your name and address and if an inspector happens to be going by your area, they will stop. So we are not sure how soon they will have the inspection. 
In the videos when they return to their home, you will see mud everywhere. Dad said when they first got there, you had to be very careful walking because you could slip at any time with all the mud. Featured in the video along with Onalea and Michael are Michael¢s parents (Dave and Cheryl), his siblings, Jeremy and his wife Amanda, and Sarah, Onalea¢s parents (Pat and Yvonne), and siblings, Wanda, Diane and Richard (both sporting a Warren t-shirt) Onalea¢s cousin, Perry and their friends, Jennifer, Dennis and Kim. The good from this is that we where able to see Micheal¢s family and Onalea and Michael¢s friends again, while working side by side. Everyone worked very hard and still had fun in the process. 
I know Onalea and Michael deeply appreciate your prayers and support as they find their way back home. Thank you!
Links:
http://www.youtube.com/wmarie0365 
*Link* *directly to Flood 2008 playlist*: http://youtube.com:80/watch?v=NDlyAdpMxWM&feature=PlayList&p=3A8B9DD7603C7FCF&index=0&playnext=1


----------



## TOM GRAHAM (Mar 15, 2006)

Snagged said:


> Hello,
> Onalea and Michael¢s photos of their house, garage and property are posted on my youtube.com page. See the links below. Note there are two videos, part I and part ii.
> As of Sunday, June 21, the basement and first floor where completely gutted down to the structure and Sunday evening and Monday was spent using a pressure washer to bleach spray the basement and first floor structures. The foundation still has the buckle and we are hoping that will let up. However, more rain is passing thru the area tonight. On Monday, Onalea called the city inspector to make an appointment to have the home inspected now that it is gutted and washed. The reply was, they are not making appointments, but rather taking your name and address and if an inspector happens to be going by your area, they will stop. So we are not sure how soon they will have the inspection.
> In the videos when they return to their home, you will see mud everywhere. Dad said when they first got there, you had to be very careful walking because you could slip at any time with all the mud. Featured in the video along with Onalea and Michael are Michael¢s parents (Dave and Cheryl), his siblings, Jeremy and his wife Amanda, and Sarah, Onalea¢s parents (Pat and Yvonne), and siblings, Wanda, Diane and Richard (both sporting a Warren t-shirt) Onalea¢s cousin, Perry and their friends, Jennifer, Dennis and Kim. The good from this is that we where able to see Micheal¢s family and Onalea and Michael¢s friends again, while working side by side. Everyone worked very hard and still had fun in the process.
> ...


SNAGGED, I DIDN'T CATCH IF THESE FOLKS WERE FRIENDS OR PART OF YOUR FAMILY. EITHER WAY, YOU HAVE GOT TO BE PROUD OF THE WAY THEY HANDLED THIS SITUTATION. THEY TOOK IT FROM A BAD THING AND TURNED IT INTO ANOTHER CHAPTER IN THEY'RE LIVES. WHAT A WONDERFUL GROUP OF PEOPLE.


----------



## Snagged (May 21, 2004)

Relatives of friends.

Note they are NOT sitting on their a$$es and waiting for handouts.


----------



## fishy (Jun 20, 2005)

The people in New Orleans we told to leave and said no then when it flooded they said that no one warned them. Also when they brought them over to the Astrodome the violent behavior didnt stop. Like yall said the facts speak for themselves.


----------



## tec (Jul 20, 2007)

When are the New Orleans refugees going to leave Houston, go home, get a job, and take are of themselves? Let me guess.


----------



## w_r_ranch (Jan 14, 2005)

tec said:


> When are the New Orleans refugees going to leave Houston, go home, get a job, and take are of themselves? Let me guess.


Maybe we could get them all to go live in Kerr County so that Brad could apply his liberal, pychobabble to the situation in a more personal way







. If those deadbeats where a drain on his county, maybe he'd feel better when they raise his taxes to help pay for them.....


----------



## trodery (Sep 13, 2006)

Floundergig said:


> Something is still missing.......oh, I remember now......I haven't seen a looter dude in Iowa .............
> Hang in there buckeyes .....you will survive


Looter Dude has been spotted again!


----------



## bzrk180 (Jan 7, 2008)

w_r_ranch said:


> Maybe we could get them all to go live in Kerr County so that Brad could apply his liberal, pychobabble to the situation in a more personal way
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Maybe we could get them all to go live in Kerr County....If those deadbeats where a drain on his county >>>>>>>>>>> Well, Kerr County did get an influx of the Katrina people so we did see some of the backlash from this. 

Brad could apply his liberal>>>>>>> I am a social worker so if that means I am "liberal" (as it seems *labels* are a *must* with many of you) then I am honored to be that. My job allows me to work with people in such a way that the closed minded people such as yourself see as enabeling. What I do in my work and in my life is honorable and truly makes a difference. Tell me, what is your contribution to society to make it a better place for all of us? Besides whining and B*tching in forums, what do you do to change a current situation you dont agree with? Are there those out there that abuse the sytem and do so with no concern for anything other than themselves? Sure there are but wat you see in the news is not representative of the whole. Throwing harsh words and dessent(sp?) towards people does not create change in people...It only creates spite and more of what you dislike (what you resist, persists). I dont sit and whine and point fingers like you seem to do...I am actively involved in working to create change in situations such as this.


I work with troubled kids who many will throw out and label as trash to get them to be able to make a life for themselves and break the cycle. 


I work with families that many of you would label as leeches and show them how to get off of government assistance and create a life that they before wouldnt see as possible because people like many in here label them as "animals" or plauges to society, or whatever other nonsense it is you want to label *HUMAN BEINGS* as. 

I work with parenting teens to make sure they understand how to take care of their children and themselves so they dont have to rely on social assistance. 


I work with families that are struggling to get by because they have no tools to work with in regards to communication, and support them in solidifying their family.


I put together programs that show abused children how to break the cycle and make life different than what they have been told.


I do classes in schools to teach teens how to apply for jobs, speak at interviews and present themselves as well as how to open bank accounts and live a "normal" life (as what our society has labeled as normal anyway).


Tell me what conversations you apply to any situations to better the situation or promote a better understanding of the POSSIBLE way things work. Armchair quarterbacks always seem to know the right plays I guess.

pychobabble>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The things I have posted in this thread are not simply my opinion but are based on many sources that have done much research in the field of poverty and lower socio-economic classes. These people are recognized on many levels and educated in this field. I dont think I would consider that psychobable but I guess anything past a Busch beer conversation would align with "psychobabble" in your eyes.

maybe he'd feel better when they raise his taxes to help pay for them>>>>>>>>>>>> I pay the same taxes as you do and if it is meant to better our society as a whole, then I may not like it and may not agree but I am for it. Besides, taxes sent for social working programs only gives me more job security. 

Again, as I have said before in here...Go do a little research and dont just THINK that because you see it a certain way that this is the way it is....When you think you know it all and have nothing else to learn, you might as well die. Trying to "wish" a problem away will not make it so. If you want to see change and dont like the current way things are done, why dont you go and be active in finding some sort of a solution rather than attacking people. Ooooppps, maybe thats too "liberal" of an idea.


----------



## gater (May 25, 2004)

*bzrk180*

You ain't gone to win with this group. To even think you can compare Katrina to the midwest floods shows how they think. I could care less if your from New Orleans or Cedar Rapids, they are both disasters and people were affected, Human beings, Americans. Race and how much money you should not be a factor. Gater


----------



## MEGABITE (May 21, 2004)

Yeah, everybody is is wrong and YOU are the one that's right, gator, uh-huh. haha

Have you made it up to the Joe Horn thread to bash him today yet or are
you just now logging in?


----------



## ZenDaddy (May 22, 2004)

bzrk180 said:


> I was recently instructed in Graduate school to read a book written by Ruby Payne called _A Framework for Understanding Poverty._ I was absolutely amazed by this book. It explains in a reasoned way that makes sense how people who are raised in *generational poverty* view and work in the world. Its not an exuse or in any way making the actions of others OK but I can honestly say that by the end of the book, I understood why those people didnt leave New Orleans and why it unfolded like it did.


Hey, if this book is as good as BZK180 states ... and it sure made him an expert on poverty ... why don't we just give it to those living in poverty? That way they could get a good understanding of why they didn't leave in a time of crises and perhaps gain some better personal management skills in the process.

I figure it's gotta be cheaper than handing out $2000.00 and trailers to everyone.


----------



## gater (May 25, 2004)

*Megabite*

No, I support Joe Horn and what he did and I never said I was right but do know one thing and that there is know comparision to the Midwest floods and Katrina.
You have to be pretty stupid to think other wise. Gater


----------



## bzrk180 (Jan 7, 2008)

ZenDaddy said:


> Hey, if this book is as good as BZK180 states ... and it sure made him an expert on poverty ... .


I never claimed to be an expert...I simply claimed to have read something that ENLIGHTENED me and help me UNDERSTAND *WHY* the people in New Orleans didnt leave (which is something that is apparently of no concern to many people in here). I find much more value in searching for ways to undertsand a problem rather than sitting and whining about the problem. You?

Some people are simply happy complaining rather than looking for ways to change things I guess. I guess its true, misery loves company!

Funny how peoples interpretations of what is stated can get so skewed.


----------



## Snagged (May 21, 2004)

*bzrk180,*
* This is not about RACE, it is about types of people. Two types of people. Those who try and those who won't.*
* The very nature of your occupation makes you a liberal after all if there are less mooching off working people you won't have a job.*
* I have more tolorence for illegals because the majority are here to work than I do those who won't find a way out of the slums.*


----------



## gater (May 25, 2004)

*Snagged*

Since you are the resident expert on natural, social, and economic disasters, why don't you tell us just what the good people of New Orleans and surrounding areas should do. I assume you have an answer, lets hear it! Gater


----------



## bzrk180 (Jan 7, 2008)

Snagged said:


> *bzrk180,*
> *This is not about RACE, it is about types of people. Two types of people. Those who try and those who won't.*
> *The very nature of your occupation makes you a liberal after all if there are less mooching off working people you won't have a job.*
> *I have more tolorence for illegals because the majority are here to work than I do those who won't find a way out of the slums.*


*This is not about RACE, it is about types of people >>>>>>>>> I never mentioned race; and types (classes) of people is my exact point. Its not as simple as just those who try and those who dont...Its much broader than that and this was the point I have been trying to make.*

*The very nature of your occupation makes you a liberal after all if there are less mooching off working people you won't have a job. >>>>>>>>>> If you say so... I dont align myself with any labels because I assure you, I am different than any liberal, conservative, republican, democrat...whatever...I see value in all "sides" of the equation. As a matter of fact, its all the sides that make up the society we live in. And trust me, I will have a job no matter what happens...I dont need anyone or anything to determine my future outside of myself.*

*those who won't find a way out of the slums >>>>>>>>>> Thats the sad thing... You see it as a "black or white" (no races, just a statement) issue and in any situation there are shades of gray. Nothing is black or white (relatively speaking)*


----------



## ZenDaddy (May 22, 2004)

bzrk180 said:


> I never claimed to be an expert...I simply claimed to have read something that ENLIGHTENED me and help me UNDERSTAND *WHY* the people in New Orleans didnt leave (which is something that is apparently of no concern to many people in here). I find much more value in searching for ways to undertsand a problem rather than sitting and whining about the problem. You?
> 
> Some people are simply happy complaining rather than looking for ways to change things I guess. I guess its true, misery loves company!
> 
> Funny how peoples interpretations of what is stated can get so skewed.


Your way doesn't sound any more enlightened than mine. The book you refer to has been criticized as being simplistic with many of the conclusions off base Admittedly I haven't read the book myself, but I've read my share of books on social conditions during my time in college. Point being, there are plenty of these books to go around, and plenty of people to buy them and read them. It doesn't seem to help (or be of any value) than whining about the problem.

What you call whining is working folks voicing their annoyance on how they percieve the victims have acted. Don't forget the Military ran an unbelievable number of rescue operations. A huge number of trailers were delivered. Good quality trailers. Huge sums of money was given out. Yet there was abominable behavior and constant criticism from the victems. I don't recall that in any other disaster. You want your fellow citizens to help, act like a citizen. Or, on a baser level, you want your fellow humans to care, act human. I don't think you need an entire book to understand that concept.


----------



## redduck (Jul 26, 2006)

I have followed this post a few days now and tried to keep from commenting because I thought it was a given that the people in N.O. and Cedar Rapids are definitely different. Anyone that can not see that is retarded. Sorry but that is a fact. Now some posters have the mind set that it is not the folks from N.O. fault because that is the way it has been for years. No one disputes that fact but that does not make it right. Some posters think that because they "recognize" the problem and make a living out of trying to change the situation it is somehow OK because human beings deserve "help" no matter what. Even if they do not want change they just want "help". A lot of other posters do not give a **** about how things have been and feel no one deserves a free ride. These folks could care less if these "human beings" starved IF and that is a big IF they are not willing to help themselves. These posters are not saying they are unwilling to help if the individual is willing to help themselves. Of course that also includes those that can not help themselves. I think the length of this post simple shows the frustration of hard working folks who are tired of giving to a problem that by all reasonable standards should have gone away long time ago. The frustration is magnified because there is not an end in sight and the political group would just as soon keep it going because that is how they survive. I am beginning to ramble so I will let it go for now.


----------



## MEGABITE (May 21, 2004)

gater said:


> Since you are the resident expert on natural, social, and economic disasters, why don't you tell us just what the good people of New Orleans and surrounding areas should do. I assume you have an answer, lets hear it! Gater


The able bodied people of New Orleans should've left when they were told to for one. Also they should've been looking for a job and try to be self sufficient instead of expecting the taxpayers to take care of them for 5 years after the hurricane. They also shouldn't have turned the natural disaster into an excuse to go loot and pillage for all the World to see. This is all common sense type stuff , but hey, it's easy to play the blame game. The government should've piloted an aircraft carrier up the Mississippi and rescued all of them the first day.


----------



## trodery (Sep 13, 2006)

Here is old "LOOTER DUDE" going back for seconds....


----------



## bzrk180 (Jan 7, 2008)

ZenDaddy said:


> Your way doesn't sound any more enlightened than mine. The book you refer to has been criticized as being simplistic with many of the conclusions off base Admittedly I haven't read the book myself, but I've read my share of books on social conditions during my time in college. Point being, there are plenty of these books to go around, and plenty of people to buy them and read them. It doesn't seem to help (or be of any value) than whining about the problem.
> 
> What you call whining is working folks voicing their annoyance on how they percieve the victims have acted. Don't forget the Military ran an unbelievable number of rescue operations. A huge number of trailers were delivered. Good quality trailers. Huge sums of money was given out. Yet there was abominable behavior and constant criticism from the victems. I don't recall that in any other disaster. You want your fellow citizens to help, act like a citizen. Or, on a baser level, you want your fellow humans to care, act human. I don't think you need an entire book to understand that concept.


Man, its funny how people have percieved what I am staing here rather than really look at what I said... Let me respond directly again here.

The book you refer to has been criticized as being simplistic with many of the conclusions off base>>>>>>>>>> As does ANY book. I never claimed this was the "Bible" to the poor and understanding them. What I stated was this was a book that opened my eyes to a better understanding of what took place. I never claimed it was the gospel.

It doesn't seem to help (or be of any value) than whining about the problem >>>>>>>>>>> Well, based on my experience in dealing with the lower socio-economic classes, I have incorporated some of the tools offered in that book and have done evidence based reviews before and after incorporating those tools. I personally have seen improvement in the lessons and classes I present to those in that socio-economic class....Sooooo, in my opinion and experience, it does help. Maybe on a small scale (in some peoples opinions) but none the less, it has helped.

What you call whining is working folks voicing their annoyance>>>>>>>>>>>> No, what I call whining is those who chime in here with what they think is a solution to a problem that has been staed and tried again, again and again (ie...they should get off their a$$es, they should go get jobs, they should quit looking for handouts, etc...) without attaining the results they want and are so attached to that solution that they refuse to look at it any other way.

how they percieve the victims have acted>>>>>>>>>>> Agreed....how people percieve a thing makes it "right" for them but that doesnt mean it is.

I don't think you need an entire book to understand that concept>>>>>>>>> I dont think you "need" anything but when people are asking "why" then I offered a possible way to look at a situation differently and now here we are in this interaction. There is no one book that answers to everything. A collaboration of ideas, an open mind to look outside of a standardized way of thinking, some original thought and an ability to stay open to possibilities is an easier way to understand a thing.


----------



## TOM GRAHAM (Mar 15, 2006)

*BZRK180==I HATE TO SAY THIS, BUT YOU AND LIKE MINDED PEOPLE ARE THE VERY REASON THAT THIS LONGTERM POVERTY SITUTATION STILL EXISTS. *WHEN PEOPLE GET HUNGRY, THEY WILL GO TO WORK. BUT, THEY WON'T AS LONG AS THE NICE FOLKS AT THE GOV'MENT GIVE THEM EVERYTHING.

I'VE WORKS FOR 45 YEARS TO TAKE CARE OF MY FAMILY, I SEE NO REASON WHY THE OTHER GUY CAN'T DO THE SAME. I COULD CARE LESS IF THEY DON'T HAVE EVERYTHING I HAVE. BUT, I BET EVERYONE YOU GO TO SEE HAS A CELL-PHONE AND GAMEBOY OR WHATEVER THEY PLAYWITH THESE DAYS.


----------



## bzrk180 (Jan 7, 2008)

labdog said:


> *BZRK180==I HATE TO SAY THIS, BUT YOU AND LIKE MINDED PEOPLE ARE THE VERY REASON THAT THIS LONGTERM POVERTY SITUTATION STILL EXISTS. *WHEN PEOPLE GET HUNGRY, THEY WILL GO TO WORK. BUT, THEY WON'T AS LONG AS THE NICE FOLKS AT THE GOV'MENT GIVE THEM EVERYTHING.
> 
> I'VE WORKS FOR 45 YEARS TO TAKE CARE OF MY FAMILY, I SEE NO REASON WHY THE OTHER GUY CAN'T DO THE SAME. I COULD CARE LESS IF THEY DON'T HAVE EVERYTHING I HAVE. BUT, I BET EVERYONE YOU GO TO SEE HAS A CELL-PHONE AND GAMEBOY OR WHATEVER THEY PLAYWITH THESE DAYS.


*I HATE TO SAY THIS, BUT YOU AND LIKE MINDED PEOPLE ARE THE VERY REASON THAT THIS LONGTERM POVERTY SITUTATION STILL EXISTS.>>>>>>>>>>> Uhhhhhhm, OK, yeah, thats it. Thanks! *


----------



## Snagged (May 21, 2004)

bzrk180 said:


> *This is not about RACE, it is about types of people >>>>>>>>> (1)I never mentioned race; and types (classes) of people is my exact point. Its not as simple as just those who try and those who dont...Its much broader than that and this was the point I have been trying to make.*
> 
> *The very nature of your occupation makes you a liberal after all if there are less mooching off working people you won't have a job. >>>>>>>>>>(2) If you say so... I dont align myself with any labels because I assure you, I am different than any liberal, conservative, republican, democrat...whatever...I see value in all "sides" of the equation. As a matter of fact, its all the sides that make up the society we live in. And trust me, I will have a job no matter what happens...I dont need anyone or anything to determine my future outside of myself.*
> 
> *those who won't find a way out of the slums >>>>>>>>>> (3)Thats the sad thing... You see it as a "black or white" (no races, just a statement) issue and in any situation there are shades of gray. Nothing is black or white (relatively speaking)*


(1) But it is just that simple and that is what you fail to understand. Some people need a hand up for a short period. Some people due to obvious physicial problems will need long term assistance. Then there is the three hundred pound fifth generation welfare slob that should be rendered down for lard.

(2) Yes, as a matter of fact I do. If the organization you are with wanted a correction it would be "Hmm, can't find work? The streets need to be swept, the gutters need to be cleaned, the trash needs to be picked up. Get to it or starve."

(3) The sad part is that liberal thinking is what perpetuates this problem. Drop the idea of hand outs and think in the area of hand ups.


----------



## tec (Jul 20, 2007)

We should kick out all the illegals and use the money we have been spending on them to raise the minimum wage to about $10 bucks an hour. That should not cost us any more than what we are spending now. Then we should stop all welfare to anyone who is out of high school (even if they quit) and able to work so they have to work to eat. Lock up criminals for their full sentence in the same type tents our soldiers have.


----------



## TOM GRAHAM (Mar 15, 2006)

I'M GLAD THERE ARE A FEW PEOPLE HERE THAT UNDERSTAND WHY THESE PEOPLE ARE IN THE SITUTATION THEY'RE IN. ADD UP ALL THE $$$$$ THE GOV'MENT GIVES THESE WELFARE FOLKS AND IT WILL COME TO $18-$20/HOUR. FOR THE MOST PART THEY HAVE NO SKILLS AND NO DESIRE TO LEARN ANY. WHY SHOULD THEY WORK FOR MIN. WAGE. THEY'D BE TAKING A $10.00/HR CUT IN PAY. WHEN THIS COUNTRY WAS FOUNDED, IN THE MASSACHEUTIIIIISSLLLL (SP) BAY COLONY THEIR WERE A GROUP OF PEOPLE THAT THOUGHT THEY WERE ABOVE WORKING AT HARD LABOR. THE REST OF THE PEOPLE PASSED LAWS (RULES) THAT SAID THAT IF YOU DIDN'T WORK, YOU DIDN'T EAT OR HAVE SHELTER OR CLOTHES. * FOR THE MESSAGE TO BE DELIVERIT DIDN'T TAKE BUT ONE COLD WINTER ED. WE NEED THE SAME KIND OF DECISION MADE TODAY.*


----------



## State_Vet (Oct 10, 2006)

Well I've worked with the poor unfortunate socio-whatever you call them. I haven't read any book or attended any college course to work with them so take my comments for what their worth. I find that the vast majority of them have a "excuse" for not working, and if they don't have one the "social worker" provides one for them, I've heard them all too:

No experience;

No transportation;

I'm disabled;

Those jobs don't pay enough (one of my favorite);



People go to work everyday with "problems", if all welfare ended tomorrow the vast majority would be working within 24 hours. Life is about choices and taking responsibility for the choices you make.


----------



## gater (May 25, 2004)

*What does....*

not working have to do with the difference between CR and NO, isn't that what this thread was about when it started. Gater


----------



## ZenDaddy (May 22, 2004)

bzrk180 said:


> Man, its funny how people have percieved what I am staing here rather than really look at what I said... Let me respond directly again here.
> 
> It doesn't seem to help (or be of any value) than whining about the problem >>>>>>>>>>> Well, based on my experience in dealing with the lower socio-economic classes, I have incorporated some of the tools offered in that book and have done evidence based reviews before and after incorporating those tools. I personally have seen improvement in the lessons and classes I present to those in that socio-economic class....Sooooo, in my opinion and experience, it does help. Maybe on a small scale (in some peoples opinions) but none the less, it has helped.
> 
> ...


Ya got some good points here .... and I commend you for trying to help. I seem to be lacking compassion these days. Could be I'm just darned tired from working all the time. Seems the harder you work, the less likely you are to get in trouble.


----------



## w_r_ranch (Jan 14, 2005)

Wow!!! Look at all that blue!!! Like I said Brad, you "talk" alot and "say" so little.









Cry us a river







but EXCUSES don't count for goat spit, RESULTS do. And that is a fact any where you go in this country. Your refusal to accept the facts, does not alter them or make them go away, it just make you look foolish...


----------



## yaboy (Aug 14, 2007)

It is truly amazing that this thread has not been locked yet. I read through this, and you have people talking about this country being founded and "...THEIR WERE A GROUP OF PEOPLE THAT THOUGHT THEY WERE ABOVE WORKING AT HARD LABOR. THE REST OF THE PEOPLE PASSED LAWS (RULES) THAT SAID THAT IF YOU DIDN'T WORK, YOU DIDN'T EAT OR HAVE SHELTER OR CLOTHES." Amazing...so that whole slavery thing was just a figment of someone's imagination. My bad, slave owners were hard workers, not the slaves. 

Look, I am not trying to get into some psychological battle, social battle, ethics battle, or anything of that nature, but I hope y'all were this ****** about people during 9-11 that recieved money because there loved ones died. Come on, people die every day...more than that, people get killed everyday. Why should someone get paid millions of tax dollars because some idiots from another country attacked ours? Before you get mad about reading that, just think about that. When will it stop. Should someone in the murder capitol of the U.S. be allowed to get a settlement because the system did not protect them or their loves one completely?

I can really show various times through history where people went through disasters in the U.S. and were paid for it, but why. Just stop this psuedo-Klan rhetoric please! This is the 2000's people...let that hate mentality die. Not everyone in New Orleans was on welfare...not everyone in New Orleans was Black...not everyone from New Orleans is looking for a handout...not everyone during 9-11 was nice despite the situation at hand. Just look how Starbucks constantly was insensitive to the people of 9-11! Trying to make a buck off water during a tragedy!!! Making posters that seemed really insensitive for their advertisements!!! Be mad at something like that. I will not even let you know how farming subsidies work...one of the biggest welfare systems out there!


----------



## State_Vet (Oct 10, 2006)

IMO, this thread was trying to show that the way a person or community reacts to a natural disaster is directly related to how they live their lives. Now do I think the people of CR will get the same level of benefit as the people of NO, not a chance.


----------



## Zork (Jan 11, 2006)

Alot of 'em in NO were waiting around for the others to leave so they could start "gettin' paid" not realizing that they were in actual danger until it was too late. Entire families listening to their thug husbands and kids about the riches to come when everyone evacuated and how nothing is gonna happen too them. And WHAM...what a surprise to them..
Brad your leaving out that aspect...ask a few of them. Are the people you help required to get your help to stay on welfare?


----------



## Snagged (May 21, 2004)

YABOY,
I suggest that you study a little history about the founding colonies.


----------



## TOM GRAHAM (Mar 15, 2006)

. My bad, slave owners were hard workers, not the slaves. 

YES MY DEAR FELLOW, THE SLAVE OWNERS WERE HARD WORKERS. BUT EVEN MORE IMPORTANT THAN THAT, THEY WERE SMART WORKERS. THEY FIGURED OUT HOW TO TAKE A HOSTILE WORKFORCE AND MAKE IT EXTREMELY EFFECIENT AND PROFITABLE. WHEATHER YOU ACCEPT IT OR NOT, THAT DID TAKE ALOT OF HARD WORK.


----------



## bzrk180 (Jan 7, 2008)

Snagged said:


> (3) The sad part is that liberal thinking is what perpetuates this problem. Drop the idea of hand outs and think in the area of hand ups.


My whole goal in my professional career is to do exactly this...A hand up, not a handout. I am completely aligned with you in respect to this...OMG, thats scary (jk)!!

I believe in the sytem that was generated to assist people to get out of the situation they are currently in, not a way to stay in the situation. I dont agree with anyone simply sitting around and getting someone else to take care of them. What I do want to do is provide an opportunity for those who do want their life to be different. If thats liberal thinking then go ahead and label me as you wish.


----------



## bzrk180 (Jan 7, 2008)

w_r_ranch said:


> Wow!!! Look at all that blue!!! Like I said Brad, you "talk" alot and "say" so little.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


and here is some more blue...

Like I said Brad, you "talk" alot and "say" so little.







>>>>>>>> Thanks for your opinion and feedback. You do know what they say about opinions though right?

Cry us a river







but EXCUSES don't count for goat spit, RESULTS do>>>>>>>>>> Exactly...And what are the results of the ideas you have formed around all of this? I am not making excuses for anyone or anything. I am merely making a point that there are issues seeted deeper than what many want to state and beleive here. And in all reality, whos crying over all of this? Not me.

Your refusal to accept the facts>>>>>>>>>> I think i have clearly stated that I do accept the facts. The fact is that you are apparenly opinionated without support of your opinion. You have a "just cuz I say so mentality" and its not that way. I am clear on the facts, thanks!

it just make you look foolish>>>>>>>>> Again, thanks for your opinon and feedabck but if I look foolish then thats ok. Now that we all are aware of opinions...my opinion is that people who pass judgment on others without looking at all of the all the parts of the whole are foolish. You are throwing ideas at a problem that doesnt solve the problem, it only creates it to be a bigger one. 

Yeah, the blue is pretty isnt it?


----------



## bzrk180 (Jan 7, 2008)

Zork said:


> Alot of 'em in NO were waiting around for the others to leave so they could start "gettin' paid" not realizing that they were in actual danger until it was too late. Entire families listening to their thug husbands and kids about the riches to come when everyone evacuated and how nothing is gonna happen too them. And WHAM...what a surprise to them..
> Brad your leaving out that aspect...ask a few of them. Are the people you help required to get your help to stay on welfare?


Entire families listening to their thug husbands and kids about the riches to come >>>>>>>>>>>> I am sure that happend but I am also sure if you were to put a percentage on that it would be VERY small

ask a few of them. Are the people you help required to get your help to stay on welfare>>>>>>>>>>>>> What makes you think that all the people I work with are on welfare? Many of the people I work with are poor and just getting by and use our services because they cant afford 250.00 an hour to see someone or send their kids to see someone. They cant afford the special things the more affluent kids in school get to afford (trips to Austin,, scholorships for graduates, etc...) My title is "Child Abuse Prevention Specialist". I work for a non-profit organization and we are not affiliated with the "system". We work indipendantly to serve those people in the community we live in to assist in provididn a life that can work for them. Sorry you see that as a "bad" thing. 

To answer your question...No, the people we serve are not required to use our services to stay on welfare. That would not be "non-profit"


----------



## bzrk180 (Jan 7, 2008)

labdog said:


> . My bad, slave owners were hard workers, not the slaves.
> 
> YES MY DEAR FELLOW, THE SLAVE OWNERS WERE HARD WORKERS. BUT EVEN MORE IMPORTANT THAN THAT, THEY WERE SMART WORKERS. THEY FIGURED OUT HOW TO TAKE A HOSTILE WORKFORCE AND MAKE IT EXTREMELY EFFECIENT AND PROFITABLE. WHEATHER YOU ACCEPT IT OR NOT, THAT DID TAKE ALOT OF HARD WORK.


WOW!! So did killing six million Jews. (Thats a whole different thread though I guess)

Weird how this thread has twisted and turned.


----------



## Super Dave (May 26, 2004)

after all the discussion so far, I don't see much said about the affected people getting a job and hiring on to the clean up crews, remodelers, new builders, etc etc. Outside labor had to be brought in to do the work. The National Guard is still in NO patrolling the streets to keep the locals from looting and stealing everything not nailed down. You risk your life if you go out after dark in some sections of the city. What I do see is reports here in Houston saying that after all this time FEMA assistance is still required because a job couldn't be found. There are signs all over Houston/BR/NO for available jobs.


----------



## yaboy (Aug 14, 2007)

labdog said:


> . My bad, slave owners were hard workers, not the slaves.
> 
> YES MY DEAR FELLOW, THE SLAVE OWNERS WERE HARD WORKERS. BUT EVEN MORE IMPORTANT THAN THAT, THEY WERE SMART WORKERS. THEY FIGURED OUT HOW TO TAKE A HOSTILE WORKFORCE AND MAKE IT EXTREMELY EFFECIENT AND PROFITABLE. WHEATHER YOU ACCEPT IT OR NOT, THAT DID TAKE ALOT OF HARD WORK.


Hostile workforce...lmao! Are you serious? That is your reply? Okay, I give up!


----------



## yaboy (Aug 14, 2007)

Snagged said:


> YABOY,
> I suggest that you study a little history about the founding colonies.


Please educate me. What am I missing?


----------



## yaboy (Aug 14, 2007)

It is amazing that so many people on here are New Orleans experts! I could easily dismiss a lot of rhetoric on here, especially the theory that people were waiting around to loot (i.e. a month earlier the people of New Orleans evacuated for another hurricane and there was not a looting scandal.), but you can not make people give up hate. I am glad all you political experts, social experts and wordly psychologist are here to fix all the ills of New Orleans and wherever else people that don't look like you inhabit!


----------



## TOM GRAHAM (Mar 15, 2006)

yaboy said:


> It is amazing that so many people on here are New Orleans experts! I could easily dismiss a lot of rhetoric on here, especially the theory that people were waiting around to loot (i.e. a month earlier the people of New Orleans evacuated for another hurricane and there was not a looting scandal.), but you can not make people give up hate. I am glad all you political experts, social experts and wordly psychologist are here to fix all the ills of New Orleans and wherever else people that don't look like you inhabit!


i haven't seen where anyone here has put themselves up as experts on NO. we are reacting to what we saw on tv and read in various papers/news articles. we all know that not everyone in NO was looting, but that is what is what was reported by all the news organizations. i often thought it funny that the news stations wanted to show us the difficult times in NO during Katrina. but ended up showing all the looting/stealing that was going on. with the exception of the guy that stole the school bus and brought the people to Houston, i did not see one case of people taking care of themselves and others.


----------



## yakfishin (Dec 8, 2005)

*In less than five words per question please give a direct non polictical response.
Do individuals have the responsiblity for themselves in LIFE?>>>>> Yes, in EVERYDAY life.*

*Do both La. and Iowa both have levee systems in place?>>>>> I dont know, enlighten me.*

*Where both disasters caused by flooding not wind?>>>>>>> Uhhhm, not completely.*

*Where all homes that were and are flooded classified and unlivable?>>>>> Depends on the severity *

*Are you a Democrat? (just a question)>>>> No, a trusting, caring, peaceful man. (sorry, 6 words)*

*hope this fullfills your needs to try and force your wanted answers.*

*Oh yeah....Happy monday folks!! LOL!!*

Not wanted answers, just straight forward answer. Now to enlighten you,as you would put it. Yes, both N.O. and Iowa have levee systems (Both failed at some point), Yes, all houses that are flooded are considered unlivable until waste water is removed. Both *Disasters* were caused by flooding only. The wind damage in New Orleans was not classified as a disaster, bad but not disaster worthy. 
I could not figure out how you had so much time to type and reply so often. Then I realized you work for the Social Services.


----------



## gater (May 25, 2004)

*Labdog*

Just how did you expect those people in NO to take care of themselves or others. Please enlighten me on what they should have done. Gater


----------



## bzrk180 (Jan 7, 2008)

Not wanted answers, just straight forward answer. >>>>>>>>>> 

OK, Whatever makes you feel better.

I could not figure out how you had so much time to type and reply so often.>>>>>>>>>>>> 

Good, keep guessing!

Then I realized you work for the Social Services>>>>>>>>>>>> 

Yeah, which is honorable work as it supports people into making their lives better and helps kids who have been abused and neglected the opportunity to see a happy life ahead and a possibility to live a life past being a victim. Your contributions are huge I am sure!


----------



## TOM GRAHAM (Mar 15, 2006)

gater said:


> Just how did you expect those people in NO to take care of themselves or others. Please enlighten me on what they should have done. Gater


they simply should have taken care of themselves. however, as we both know they are programed to sit on their arse's and let someone else tell them what to do. it's called personal responsibility. don;t wait for someone to give you a handout.

don't steal nike's and heiniken's and big screen tv's. steal food and bottled water. but we didn't see that did we. no guys, those people got what they had coming. slavery was ended around 1865, however, the great democratic party has kept the tradition alive just so they have a solid voting block. when they get to the point to where they can think for themselves, then the demo's lose the vote.


----------



## gater (May 25, 2004)

*Answer*

You still have not answered the question, how did you expext those people to take care of themselves. I'm not talking about the few thousand thugs (if that many) doing the looting, I am talking about the remaining people who were forgotten. Gater


----------



## MEGABITE (May 21, 2004)

You're wasting your keystrokes, Labdog. He'll never get it.


----------



## w_r_ranch (Jan 14, 2005)

Megabite's right. You can tell a liberal anything, but you can't tell 'em much.


----------



## Snagged (May 21, 2004)

Liberal's won't learn. sad_smiles


----------



## snagltoothfrecklefish (Jul 27, 2004)

Anyone comparing these two situations is trying to take a simpleton view of two very different situations. Any comparison is not valid. Katrina affected an area (over 90,000 sq miles of disaster area) that was larger than the state of Iowa. The numbers of people involved are significantly different. The fact is that many people making this comparison are saying Katrina victims should have all evacuated when told (we know from Rita and Houston this is not phyiscally possible), that there is no looting (in fact there has been in Iowa) and no FEMA trailers (in fact there are in Iowa). It is not liberal versus conservative, it is basic human life, that in the greatest country in the world (the one for which I served to defend) that anyone should have to die due to not being able escape a natural disaster. 

I don't hear people complaining about farm subsidies in Iowa and them "welching" off the government. Personally I thing to compare Katrina to Cedar Rapids is just an invalid and quite frankly stupid way to make an irrevalent point. I don't agree with all that happened with Katrina, but the country was totally unprepared for that disaster. I sure hope that when your family is the one caught by a disaster and you are looking for help, that no one bashes you for asking for that help. I am glad that everything is a simple as black and white or liberal and conservative for everyone, but the fact is that nothing is that simple. Saying "compare Cedar Rapids to Katrina" is putting a soundbite on a complex situation. And your right, I would not change my mind especailly for the non factual discussion presented here.


----------



## MikeV (Jun 5, 2006)

The topic was Cedar Rapids vs. New Orleans. Comparing the whole area of Katrina to Iowa is irrelevant, and in fact, some impacted by Katrina didn't have both hands and all four pockets out like so many in New Orleans did and continue to do.


----------



## Snagged (May 21, 2004)

Get off it snagltooth. 
It has to do with doing something or doing nothing.
Working people verus scumsucking parasites.
Not all the people in NO belong in the latter group.


----------



## gater (May 25, 2004)

*Snagged*

You still can't answer the question....do you not have an answer....have you ever been through something like that...answer the question, what is it these people in NO should do or have done. This is not about black/white/rich/poor, its about taking care of our people, Americans. If you have never been through something like that and I know you have not, don't judge what people should do and how they should handle themselves. Gater


----------



## Snagged (May 21, 2004)

You little fool, I've lived through floods in Missouri, forest fires, and blizzards.
I've already said those who take care of themselves, are willing to put out effort and do what they can are worth helping. What will it be in each situation is basicly food, water, shelter and have enough sense to get out of the area if needed..


----------



## TOM GRAHAM (Mar 15, 2006)

Snagged said:


> You little fool, I've lived through floods in Missouri, forest fires, and blizzards.
> I've already said those who take care of themselves, are willing to put out effort and do what they can are worth helping. What will it be in each situation is basicly food, water, shelter and have enough sense to get out of the area if needed..


SNAGGED,,THEY REALLY DON'T GET IT. I THINKS MAYBE SOME OF US ARE BEING A LITTLE TO CRITICAL OF THE DEFENDERS OF WORTHLESS SCUMBAGS. LET THEM CONTINUE TO FEEL GUILTY BECAUSE I DANG SURE DON'T. GUESS SOMEBODY HAS TO LOOKOUT FOR THE IDIOTS.


----------



## Snagged (May 21, 2004)

labdog said:


> SNAGGED,,THEY REALLY DON'T GET IT. I THINKS MAYBE SOME OF US ARE BEING A LITTLE TO CRITICAL OF THE DEFENDERS OF WORTHLESS SCUMBAGS. LET THEM CONTINUE TO FEEL GUILTY BECAUSE I DANG SURE DON'T. GUESS SOMEBODY HAS TO LOOKOUT FOR THE IDIOTS.


 OK, but I'll not look out for them any longer.


----------



## bzrk180 (Jan 7, 2008)

Funny...You think that making a point is trying to defend actions of individuals and that isnt the point at all. 

Funny how you think "liberals" wont hear when it seems the "conservatives" in here simply hear what they want, as they want to hear it. There are facts to consider of which you refuse to look at. 

As long as you "conservatives" look at AMERICANS as "US vs.THEM" then you have totally missed what being an American is all about. 

Is looting and criminal behavior acceptable? HELL NO!!

Is allowing people (AMERICANS) to die on overpasses of dehydration acceptable?? HELL NO!!

As long as you narrow mindied people in here see Americans as seperate then we will always have seperation and desent (sp?). We all create and are creating this nation as it is. We are a Democracy which means we are all in this together. 

So, sit at your screen and bash this person or that person and make judgments as to how people should or shouldnt live without educating yourself in regards to different people and all you do is cause more seperation of us as a society. Good job you proud Red, White, and Blue claiming patriots! Make sure those flags are waving high out there!


----------



## MEGABITE (May 21, 2004)

So I suppose you put your own evacuation plans on hold and chartered a helicopter to go rescue people, right? Give us a break. We're tired of your little self righteous blame game.


----------



## fishsmart (Dec 5, 2004)

Don't forget the function of government is to provide an atmosphere to operate and prosper and not to provide goods and services.

Charles


----------



## golffisherbob (Aug 11, 2005)

*This is a glimpse of what us "conservatives" are saying*

http://www.comcast.net/news/national/index.jsp?cat=DOMESTIC&fn=/2007/10/30/801564.html&cookieattempt=1

This is an example of some of the people who were devestated by Katrina. That didn't have their hands out.

My two cents

Bob


----------



## bzrk180 (Jan 7, 2008)

fishsmart said:


> Don't forget the function of government is to provide an atmosphere to operate and prosper and not to provide goods and services.
> 
> Charles


Agreed!

Again, I am not speaking about anyone getting "handouts."


----------



## rockhound76 (Feb 22, 2007)

Great article. My MIL lives in New Orleans East. She lost everything, but rebuilt it all herself in a year using friends and her own labor. 

Her son, who also lost his home and his business (ransacked by gangs post Katrina), sold what was left of canal home and used the money to start another business by buying a storm sewer vacumm truck. 

Both got on their feet fairly quickly.

On the negative side, New Orleans is still New Orleans. She can't leave her home at night for fear of the crime. In fact, she moved back into her home from the FEMA trailer in her driveway before the home was ready, with no running water or air conditioning. This was after two break-in attempts while she was inside the trailer. Her home, with a good solid shell outside, was more secure.

Her son just lost his city contract for the sewer truck to a minority owned business. That business doesn't own a truck yet and can't afford to take over the payments on his, so he's still working month-to-month. Soon, I guess, he'll have to find another job.

To be honest, my wife and I wish they would move...

(btw, we've tried to help them financially, but they would have none of that...)


----------



## w_r_ranch (Jan 14, 2005)

Did you ever stop to think that everything you are or ever will be is completely up to you? Just imagine! You are where you are because of who you are. Everything that exists in your life exists because of you, because of your behavior, words and actions. Because you have freedom of choice and because you have chosen each and every circumstance of your life, you are completely responsible for all of your success and failure, your happiness and unhappiness, your present and future.

The opposite of accepting responsibility is making excuses and blaming people and things for what's going on in your life. And since everything we do is a matter of habit, if people get into the habit of making excuses, they get into the habit of evading responsibility at the same time. If they set a goal or objective for themselves, they immediately create an excuse that they hold in reserve just in case the accomplishment of the goal is too difficult or requires more self-discipline and persistence than they had thought. As soon as things start to go poorly, irresponsible people trot out their excuse and let themselves off the hook. But that won't get them anywhere in the long run.

*Brad, give it up. Personal responsibility is just that, anything else is B.S.*










 













































Enough said.


----------



## 535 (May 23, 2004)

w_r_ranch said:


> Did you ever stop to think that everything you are or ever will be is completely up to you? Just imagine! You are where you are because of who you are. Everything that exists in your life exists because of you, because of your behavior, words and actions. Because you have freedom of choice and because you have chosen each and every circumstance of your life, you are completely responsible for all of your success and failure, your happiness and unhappiness, your present and future.
> 
> Enough said.


yes, because nobody has been born into an impoverished coca farmer's family in Bolivia... nobody was ever born with Down's Syndrome or born as the emminent heir to royalty... face it, most of us were born with silver spoons if compared to the rest of humanity... I am not making excuses for anybody, but failing to recognize the complexities of the world does absolutely nothing for your overly simplistic argument


----------



## Snagged (May 21, 2004)

jc, as usual you are trying to make excuses for those too freaking lazy to try.
Those truly handicapped have been addressed.


----------



## 535 (May 23, 2004)

Snagged said:


> jc, as usual you are trying to make excuses for those too freaking lazy to try.
> Those truly handicapped have been addressed.


what part of "I'm not making excuses for anyone" did you not understand Jerry? Nice to see you still got it though... 16 pages on a washed up crazy uncle email troll...


----------



## Snagged (May 21, 2004)

You started by floating off into never never land about none related things, I stopped reading real quick.


----------



## w_r_ranch (Jan 14, 2005)

jc said:


> I am not making excuses for anybody, but failing to recognize the complexities of the world does absolutely nothing for your overly simplistic argument


 Talk about simplistic thought processes.... and up you pop.









*Being poor* is *no excuse* for breaking the law, jc. That is the point. There are NO complexities involved at all. There are poor people in Iowa too, but I guess the media totally forgot to post the pictures of them carting off other people's TVs & other merchandise....

Show us all the pictures of looting in Cedar Rapids, Iowa, jc.... Show us the links to all the taxpayer funded 'handouts' for the folks there too, while you're at it. Good luck with that!!!!


----------



## 535 (May 23, 2004)

w_r_ranch said:


> Talk about simplistic thought processes.... and up you pop.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


you so quickly lose sight... did something shiney catch your attention?

again, I am not making excuses for anyone who committed criminal acts... but to think that all of the victims of Katrina were/are equally prepared to deal with the aftermath is utterly ridiculous... the money doled out by FEMA to mitigate damages in Iowa goes a lot further when people basically are relocated for a few days and able to return promptly to start gutting drywall and insulation as their electric and cable are reconnected... compare that to people who are displaced to other states etc and that fema money is necessary for food, shelter, etc... I think it is a shame the shear volume who have not returned to NOLA to rebuild and I think the majority of them are personally responsible for their own woes after this amount of time... as far as "show me the money"... I could care less, look it up yourself... whether you like it or not, lots of people get fema money almost everytime a river leaves its banks... just ask the good residents of Comal, Hays and Guadalupe County here in Texas... its not generally going to get high ratings on tv but it doesn't change the fact that people lined up in Iowa for hand-outs te same as they did after Katrina... I don't have to source it because it was done for me earlier in this very thread... but obviously I won't try to convince you there is a difference in walking down to the county courthouse in your hometown to apply for a fema check as opposed to applying in an airline hangar in another state


----------



## w_r_ranch (Jan 14, 2005)

jc said:


> you so quickly lose sight... did something shiney catch your attention?


yada, yada, yada.... Typical liberal response.... lots of words & no substance.

TRY to stay focused, jc..... I know it's hard for you:* Being poor is no excuse for breaking the law, jc. That is the point. There are NO complexities involved at all. There are poor people in Iowa too, but I guess the media totally forgot to post the pictures of them carting off other people's TVs & other merchandise....*


----------



## bzrk180 (Jan 7, 2008)

w_r_ranch said:


> Did you ever stop to think that everything you are or ever will be is completely up to you? Just imagine! You are where you are because of who you are. Everything that exists in your life exists because of you, because of your behavior, words and actions. Because you have freedom of choice and because you have chosen each and every circumstance of your life, you are completely responsible for all of your success and failure, your happiness and unhappiness, your present and future.
> 
> The opposite of accepting responsibility is making excuses and blaming people and things for what's going on in your life. And since everything we do is a matter of habit, if people get into the habit of making excuses, they get into the habit of evading responsibility at the same time. If they set a goal or objective for themselves, they immediately create an excuse that they hold in reserve just in case the accomplishment of the goal is too difficult or requires more self-discipline and persistence than they had thought. As soon as things start to go poorly, irresponsible people trot out their excuse and let themselves off the hook. But that won't get them anywhere in the long run.
> 
> ...


Back to that purdy color now!!

Did you ever stop to think that everything you are or ever will be is completely up to you? Just imagine!>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes I have...I am also not born in or from generational poverty which is my point...Although you and I might see this, some cant. Not right, not wrong, just "*IS*!"

And since everything we do is a matter of habit, if people get into the habit of making excuses, they get into the habit of evading responsibility at the same time.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OMG....ALl this time and you finally get what I am talking about. People who are raised in generational poverty have been taught a HABIT and this is EXACTLY what I am speaking of...Do we agree?? That cant be possible huh? 

*Brad, give it up. Personal responsibility is just that, anything else is B.S*.>>>>>>>>>>>>> I never discounted personal responsibility. I never stated that anyone was "OK" to commit henious acts or random acts of violence. What I have been trying to say in this thread is just what you posted. Thanks for the support!! LOL!! Now I can "give it up" LOL!!


----------



## Snagged (May 21, 2004)

Those who failed to take care of themselves did nothing before the event, added to the problems during the event, and did nothing to help themselves after the event. 
Oh, excuse me they did and still do waste a lot of good air.


----------



## 535 (May 23, 2004)

Snagged said:


> Oh, excuse me they did and still do waste a lot of good air.


as do those spending their energy crying over spilled milk... get over it, there is no amount of complaining and pointing fingers that will change what happened before, during and after Katrina... luckily there were some folks who took notes... thus we are already seeing better local, state and federal responses to natural disasters as well as seeing more folks heeding evacuation notices and removing themselves from harm's way


----------



## TOM GRAHAM (Mar 15, 2006)

jc said:


> as do those spending their energy crying over spilled milk... get over it, there is no amount of complaining and pointing fingers that will change what happened before, during and after Katrina... luckily there were some folks who took notes... thus we are already seeing better local, state and federal responses to natural disasters as well as seeing more folks heeding evacuation notices and removing themselves from harm's way


wait for the next big storm to blow into the NO area. the feds will be there, the state and local, same response as for katrina. fine upstanding citizens of NOLA will act the same as they did for katrina.

yeah, its a shame that the milk got spilled. no problem in cleaning it up....................*ONCE!*


----------



## gater (May 25, 2004)

*Help!*

The Feds, the State and local's might be there and they might not. I hoped they learned from Katrina and only time will tell, the midwest flooding wasn't a test. Gater


----------



## 535 (May 23, 2004)

labdog said:


> yeah, its a shame that the milk got spilled. no problem in cleaning it up....................*ONCE!*


research the money spent on flooding and hurricanes in the U.S. and you will find that there are plenty of our tax dollars spent for bailouts time and time again in the same areas... the gulf coast states sure seem to see the lion's share...

http://www.fema.gov/business/nfip/statistics/sign1000.shtm

and for anybody who thinks there were no gov't handouts in Iowa this summer...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080623/ap_on_re_us/midwest_flooding_fema_s_test
_"After the rain started falling in early June, FEMA arrived with 13 million sandbags to pile onto the levees, 200 generators, and 30 trucks to haul off debris. Across the upper Midwest, the agency has delivered nearly 3.6 million liters of water and 192,000 ready-to-eat meals. About 650 inspectors are working in Iowa, Indiana and Wisconsin alone._

_In Iowa, Indiana and Wisconsin alone, FEMA has received about 45,000 registrations for assistance from disaster victims. The agency has already handed out $81 million in housing assistance funds, said Carlos Castillo, a FEMA official."_

just food for thought... not meant to be used in an actual debate against crazy-uncle emailings of course...


----------



## Snagged (May 21, 2004)

Nobody said there weren't government handout in Iowa, but they are at least trying to clean up afterwards not like the ninth ward scum.


----------



## Mad Mike (Dec 28, 2005)

"Nobody said there weren't government handout in Iowa, but they are at least trying to clean up afterwards not like the ninth ward scum."

I believe that says it all.

MB


----------



## yaboy (Aug 14, 2007)

snagltoothfrecklefish said:


> Anyone comparing these two situations is trying to take a simpleton view of two very different situations. Any comparison is not valid. Katrina affected an area (over 90,000 sq miles of disaster area) that was larger than the state of Iowa. The numbers of people involved are significantly different. The fact is that many people making this comparison are saying Katrina victims should have all evacuated when told (we know from Rita and Houston this is not phyiscally possible), that there is no looting (in fact there has been in Iowa) and no FEMA trailers (in fact there are in Iowa). It is not liberal versus conservative, it is basic human life, that in the greatest country in the world (the one for which I served to defend) that anyone should have to die due to not being able escape a natural disaster.
> 
> I don't hear people complaining about farm subsidies in Iowa and them "welching" off the government. Personally I thing to compare Katrina to Cedar Rapids is just an invalid and quite frankly stupid way to make an irrevalent point. I don't agree with all that happened with Katrina, but the country was totally unprepared for that disaster. I sure hope that when your family is the one caught by a disaster and you are looking for help, that no one bashes you for asking for that help. I am glad that everything is a simple as black and white or liberal and conservative for everyone, but the fact is that nothing is that simple. Saying "compare Cedar Rapids to Katrina" is putting a soundbite on a complex situation. And your right, I would not change my mind especailly for the non factual discussion presented here.


I pretty much stated a similar point of view, but people are convinced that they KNOW the REAL reason why Katrina happened to New Orleans in the manner it did happen! I was not going to bring up Rita and Houston...because frankly, this isn't a discussion about facts...it is a hidden discussion of hatred of people that are not like themselves.


----------



## yaboy (Aug 14, 2007)

Just for the record, New Orleans does not have gangs...too poor of a community to have gangs. Every man is for himself in New Orleans. I just had to point that out, and since we have so many people on here that knows so much about New Orleans, they will be able to validate that claim.

Also need to point out that New Orleans was a city that heavily relied on public transportation. That is the reason that so many people did not evacuate as you all would have liked. Go look at the number of car lots that were broken into and people stealing vehicles to get away. The economy sucked in New Orleans if you were not either directly involved with the college system there, or involved with entertainment. Many people that were on public assistance actually had jobs, and multiple jobs in several cases, and still qualified for public assistance. 

Do a little research before you label people. College graduates tried to boost up the economy of New Orleans, but many had to leave because the wages were just too low there, pre-Katrina.

Every place has knuckle heads there, no excuses for them. It is socially irresponsible to label everyone from the area as those knuckle heads. 

FYI, just because the media only reports in one manner, do not be stupid and take what they present as the God's honest truth.


----------



## MEGABITE (May 21, 2004)

Any more excuses?


----------



## yaboy (Aug 14, 2007)

I am more than happy to actually have an intelligent conversation about Katrina with anyone on here, but I am unwilling to allow racist and imperial rants from people that seemingly do not have a clue about economics, real life and their butt holes from a hole in the ground. We should all be able to have an adult conversation on here, but some of these replies are infantile in nature, and just plain dumb.


----------



## MEGABITE (May 21, 2004)

Oh, now he's gonna start flinging race cards.


----------



## MEGABITE (May 21, 2004)

And you're a day late and a dollar short on the conversation, sorry.


----------



## yaboy (Aug 14, 2007)

Last thing for the moment, if you think "reputation points" hits will matter to me, then you are sadly mistaken. Just because someone states something that you do not agree with does not give you a right to mess with those points...but have fun. Just check to see if I ever type in racist **** or anything of that nature. Can you say the same for yourself?

Conservative VS Liberal...y'all are using that out of context obviously. How can you tell a liberal that they aren't willing to hear something when by definition a conservative is stubborn because they wish to keep there views as is, with no changes to those views whatsoever. 

As previously stated, I will have an intelligent conversation with anyone, so long it stays respectable. I have not named called, or tried to put the dunce hat on anyone on here for their comments, despite many comments being reprehensible!


----------



## yaboy (Aug 14, 2007)

MEGABITE said:


> And you're a day late and a dollar short on the conversation, sorry.


If you come with something of any merit, then get back to me.


----------



## MEGABITE (May 21, 2004)

You haven't tried to put a dunce hat on anyone yet they (we?) don't know our butts from a hole in the ground and are spouting off infantile dumb comments about things we know nothing about? Dude, reality check. haha


----------



## MEGABITE (May 21, 2004)

BTW, what makes you such an expert on N.O.'s ghettos? You know, the ghettos that are too poor for gangs.


----------



## Snagged (May 21, 2004)

Grow up child.
It's not about race, it is about doing something or doing nothing.


----------



## yaboy (Aug 14, 2007)

MEGABITE said:


> BTW, what makes you such an expert on N.O.'s ghettos? You know, the ghettos that are too poor for gangs.


Go back and reread what I typed. Dang man...reading if fundatmental. New Orleans does not have gangs. The Bloods and The Crips tried to move in on New Orleans years back, and it just did not work. Keep in mind that Tookie Williams, look him up if you do not know who he is, is from New Orleans. None of the gangs from Chicago or any other place had fertile ground in New Orleans.

What makes you question my credentials? Do you know something to the contrary? If so, then please share that with everyone. If not, then shut up and allow for the facts to speak for themselves until the time, if ever, then are proven to not in fact, be a fact! That is what I am talking about being infantile with a response...eventhough you have no knowledge base of the subject, just choosing to be contrary. How is that helpful or healthy for a logical and adult debate?

That is not a stab at you personally, but this thread is getting old because of the quite obvious hate factor for people that are different from those who are typing comments. Keep in mind, that is not everyone typing hate...that is only directed to those whom it applies.


----------



## MEGABITE (May 21, 2004)

What facts? You're full of it. haha Ludicrous statement that N.O. has or has had 0 gangs. WOW.

Do a search on New Orleans gangs and quit wasting my time, son. Here I'll even hold your hand. Do a search for Dooneys and 3NG for starters.

After that, do a Yahoo image search on New Orleans graffiti and tell us what you find. PUH-LEEEZ. 

Could it be you aren't the expert on New Orleans you claim to be? Hmmm


----------



## yaboy (Aug 14, 2007)

Snagged said:


> Grow up child.
> It's not about race, it is about doing something or doing nothing.


I agree with your statement. That is why I brought up the facts about the working class poor of New Orleans. Never brought up race at all...why does race keep coming up then? That is racial undertones to the discussion which is leading the discussion to a hateful place. That is what I am trying to eliminate. I think this thread is helpful and healthy if we weed out a couple of bad apples and allow an adult discussion to take place.


----------



## yaboy (Aug 14, 2007)

MEGABITE said:


> What facts? You're full of it. haha Ludicrous statement.
> Do a search on New Orleans gangs and quit wasting my time, son.


Where is your research mega?!? I gave you a name to look up, did you do it...I bet not!!! You are afraid of the truth. Let me help you out here:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=New+Orleans+Gangs

Let's see...CNN article...that's a nice liberal site right? Despite the title of the article, they did not mention any gangs by names...why not? Every gang has a name right? They did mention a drug ring they had to break up, and a list of over 100 people that they felt were the most dangerous in the city. That's individuals right?

Let's try this one...should help your cause http://www.knowgangs.com/blog/katrina.htm

What...they never been to New Orleans, but the REGION has some gangs based out of California and Chicago...didn't I mention half of those mentioned in my previous post? Mega, your point of view isn't looking too good right now!

Look, I am tired of doing your research...open your mouth after you have something concrete to say. New Orleans does not have gangs, period. Gangs tried to establish themselves, but it did not work out. When the media speaks of New Orleans' gangs, they are referring to a couple or a bunch of people from New Orleans in another area comitting a crime. Knuckle heads in every city, so why should New Orleans be any different. Show me a city without crime, and I will show you a place where no one lives.

FYI, if you choose to use wiki as your source, here you go http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Historical_gangs_of_New_Orleans Nice article about some White guys doing dirt in New Orleans way back in the day!

Hopefully that is enough evidence for you?


----------



## MEGABITE (May 21, 2004)

I've already been to those pages, once again, you are a day late and a dollar short. Crips and Bloods aren't the only gangs in the country. HELLO? WOW.
You need to dig alittle deeper, don't be lazy now.

Go back and look at my posting #189 and educate yourself alittle. Just a suggestion.

OUT

I'll have to wait to be schooled Monday by the New Orleans expert.
Have a great weekend.


----------



## State_Vet (Oct 10, 2006)

http://www.knowgangs.com/blog/katrina.htm

Not fast enough, I guess:biggrin:

Well it does appear that the Bandidos advertise a NO chapter, even though they are not there.
http://www.mexican-thunder-run.com/chapter.htm


----------



## yaboy (Aug 14, 2007)

MEGABITE said:


> I've already been to those pages, once again, you are a day late and a dollar short. Crips and Bloods aren't the only gangs in the country. HELLO? WOW.
> You need to dig alittle deeper, don't be lazy now.
> 
> Go back and look at my posting #189 and educate yourself alittle. Just a suggestion.
> ...


Are you serious? Did I not already state that if you have a group of people from New Orleans in another area, doing stuff in tandem, that they are considered a gang? I could have sworn I typed that. That is in HOUSTON...NOT New Orleans! Dooney's is a great place to eat in various places in the U.S. You are funny! You can't be serious! I can't keep replying to such foolishness. You were quick to take away reputation points, why not add some since I obviously bust your whole gang theory up into a million pieces! You knew that argument would not fly...that's why you left!


----------



## yaboy (Aug 14, 2007)

State_Vet said:


> http://www.knowgangs.com/blog/katrina.htm
> 
> Not fast enough, I guess:biggrin:
> 
> ...


Thank you for pointing that out! A lot of people are trying to claim gang ties to New Orleans, but there were not there pre-Katrina.


----------



## Snagged (May 21, 2004)

yaboy said:


> I agree with your statement. That is why I brought up the facts about the working class poor of New Orleans. *Never brought up race at all*...why does race keep coming up then? That is racial undertones to the discussion which is leading the discussion to a hateful place. That is what I am trying to eliminate. I think this thread is helpful and healthy if we weed out a couple of bad apples and allow an adult discussion to take place.


 But you did,



yaboy said:


> I pretty much stated a similar point of view, but people are convinced that they KNOW the REAL reason why Katrina happened to New Orleans in the manner it did happen! I was not going to bring up Rita and Houston*...because frankly, this isn't a discussion about facts...it is a hidden discussion of hatred of people that are not like themselves*.


----------



## State_Vet (Oct 10, 2006)

From the Department of Justice-National Drug Intelligence Center

Street gangs play a prominent role in drug distribution in Louisiana: 4,800 documented individuals were affiliated with 155 gangs identified in 24 parishes throughout the state as of 1999. Of the 155 active gangs, 125 have members known to sell drugs and the remaining 30 have members suspected of involvement in drug sales. Street gangs primarily distribute marijuana and crack, although heroin distribution by street gangs has increased dramatically in New Orleans.

Nationally affiliated street gangs are involved in drug transportation and distribution throughout Louisiana. Both the Crips and Bloods are active in Shreveport and have strong family ties to gang members in Los Angeles through whom they purchase drugs, primarily powdered cocaine and marijuana. These ties are so strong that in some Los Angeles neighborhoods, Shreveport is referred to as "little Compton." Louisiana is experiencing the influx of two midwestern gangs, the Gangster Disciples and the Latin Kings. The Gangster Disciples is locating in the northern and central parts of the state including Monroe, Shreveport/Bossier City, Alexandria, Lafayette, and Baton Rouge. The Latin Kings, also with strong connections to gang members on the East Coast, is locating primarily in the central and southern half of the state, in Baton Rouge, Lake Charles, and New Orleans.

Outlaw motorcycle gangs (OMGs) distribute methamphetamine and, to a lesser extent, cocaine and marijuana in Louisiana. They rely on Mexican DTOs as their primary source of supply, although OMGs continue to operate methamphetamine laboratories. They also facilitate their illegal drug activity by forming criminal alliances with independent methamphetamine cookers, street gangs, and organized crime groups. The Bandidos, the nation's second largest OMG, is headquartered in Texas and is very active in Louisiana. It has been engaged in a push to recruit new members during 2000, so its numbers have undoubtedly increased. Also active in Louisiana are the Galloping Goose, Road Barons, and the Sons of Silence.

Law enforcement reports an increase in Asian gang activity in Louisiana, especially in the southern part of the state. Asian gangs have used the growing Asian population to cover their illegal activities, the most profitable of which is drug distribution. Asian gangs are also proficient money launderers and are known to operate cell phone and computer sales scams. Leading gangs include the Viet-Pride and the Asian-Pride. Law enforcement authorities believe that Vietnamese and Laotian drug gangs are now transacting directly with Colombian and Mexican drug suppliers, indicating the potential for an increase in wholesale drug distribution activity. Asian gangs tend to be very transient, so it is difficult for law enforcement to determine exactly how many are active at any given time. The southern part of the state is home to a large Asian population, primarily Vietnamese, many of whom work in the fishing industry.

Most New Orleans street gangs are not affiliated with national gangs and have fought any attempts by national gangs to organize in the city. Law enforcement agencies identify them by housing projects or neighborhoods rather than any adopted name or affiliation to a national organization. They refer to themselves as " posses" or "crews" and are well organized, but do not have a distinct hierarchy. These gangs are responsible for most drug-related and violent crimes in the city.

Although this information is several years old I would bet it still hold true today.


----------



## Snagged (May 21, 2004)

But there are no freaking gangs in NO. :hairout:


----------



## State_Vet (Oct 10, 2006)

yaboy said:


> Thank you for pointing that out! A lot of people are trying to claim gang ties to New Orleans, but there were not there pre-Katrina.


I believe its a rather bold statement to say "no gangs" existed in NO pre or post-Katrina. NO is a big place.

Maybe you should call the Bandidos and ask them to remove New Orleans from there website:biggrin: ........since they were never there


----------



## yaboy (Aug 14, 2007)

Snagged said:


> But you did,


You thought about race. I stated it was people that do not look like you. You can be a country boy, and you would downplay a preppy kid for example...don't think race...think unfamiliar and unlike.

Thank you for bringing that up for clarification.


----------



## yaboy (Aug 14, 2007)

State_Vet said:


> I believe its a rather bold statement to say "no gangs" existed in NO pre or post-Katrina. NO is a big place.
> 
> Maybe you should call the Bandidos and ask them to remove New Orleans from there website:biggrin: ........since they were never there


LMAO I will make sure to do that right after I finish asking all the KKK sites and skin head sites to shut down! LOL


----------



## yaboy (Aug 14, 2007)

*Oh yeah!!!*



State_Vet said:


> I believe its a rather bold statement to say "no gangs" existed in NO pre or post-Katrina. NO is a big place.


I only spoke about pre-Katrina gang activity, and I will change the language if that makes everyone comfortable. There were no prominent or nationally recognized gangs in New Orleans. You did have street fights for recognition and territory, Ward battles as they were called. Does that appease the masses?


----------



## Snagged (May 21, 2004)

yaboy said:


> You thought about race. I stated it was people that do not look like you. You can be a country boy, and you would downplay a preppy kid for example...don't think race...think unfamiliar and unlike.
> 
> Thank you for bringing that up for clarification.


[email protected]


----------



## Snagged (May 21, 2004)

yaboy said:


> I only spoke about pre-Katrina gang activity, and I will change the language if that makes everyone comfortable. There were no prominent or nationally recognized gangs in New Orleans. You did have street fights for recognition and territory, Ward battles as they were called. Does that appease the masses?


 They were there pre-Katrina and still are.


----------



## yaboy (Aug 14, 2007)

Snagged said:


> They were there pre-Katrina and still are.





Snagged said:


> [email protected]


LMAO I love someone with strong opinions! I did not make up the information that was presented by myself, as well as various other people. If you have the evidence infront of you, why can't you believe that? I gave you the links to what I was quoting. Others brought information that spoke about no nationally recognized gangs in New Orleans. What more do you want?

Everyone, I am not on here to change anyone's mind about anything. If it will make the masses more comfortable to keep with the dialouge before I started interjecting, I will gracefully bow out of this thread...it's all good. Just thought this was a place to discuss...guess not.


----------



## Snagged (May 21, 2004)

Your so filled with gas it's rediculas. You apparently know little and understand much less.
As I said before, Grow up.


----------



## snagltoothfrecklefish (Jul 27, 2004)

Snagged, you beat your head on the wall trying to convince someone with the typical conservative "soundbites". Blame everything on those "scumbags taking my hard earned money". I am a conservative, I work and earn everything I get. I never ask for handouts from government, why do these "liberals" give my hard earned money away. 

What they forget are all the things that they use everyday that government provides, they overlook the pandering of our conservative president to big business and oil companies and the siphoning of these big companies off our government money. Look no further than Haliburton, Dyn Corp, KBR and numerous others as they thrive on government welfare, but just have the money to hide it. 

Go ahead Mr. So Called Conservative you surely are a true american and know it all. Hopefully you are not one of those truly dispicable war hawks that has never served a day in their life other than serving your big mouth while sitting on the couch believing you are in touch because you watch FOX news.


----------



## State_Vet (Oct 10, 2006)

yaboy said:


> Just for the record, New Orleans does not have gangs...too poor of a community to have gangs. Every man is for himself in New Orleans. I just had to point that out, and since we have so many people on here that knows so much about New Orleans, they will be able to validate that claim.


From my post #197:
_Most New Orleans street gangs are not affiliated with national gangs and have fought any attempts by national gangs to organize in the city. Law enforcement agencies identify them by housing projects or neighborhoods rather than any adopted name or affiliation to a national organization. They refer to themselves as " posses" or "crews" and are well organized, but do not have a distinct hierarchy. These gangs are responsible for most drug-related and violent crimes in the city._

_It would appear that this report from the Department of Justice disputes your claim of "No gangs in New Orleans" and "every man is for himself" unless of course you were going to say they are called " posses" or "crews". 

_


----------



## Snagged (May 21, 2004)

snagltoothfrecklefish said:


> Snagged, you beat your head on the wall trying to convince someone with the typical conservative "soundbites". Blame everything on those "scumbags taking my hard earned money". I am a conservative, I work and earn everything I get. I never ask for handouts from government, why do these "liberals" give my hard earned money away.
> 
> What they forget are all the things that they use everyday that government provides, they overlook the pandering of our conservative president to big business and oil companies and the siphoning of these big companies off our government money. Look no further than Haliburton, Dyn Corp, KBR and numerous others as they thrive on government welfare, but just have the money to hide it.
> 
> Go ahead Mr. So Called Conservative you surely are a true american and know it all. Hopefully you are not one of those truly dispicable war hawks that has never served a day in their life other than serving your big mouth while sitting on the couch believing you are in touch because you watch FOX news.


Sorry I'm a true liberal. My concern is that they, as a group, refuse to even attempt to do anything. As the Bible says,"God helps those who help themselves" guess what, so do I.
As far as being a warhawk goes, I only spent a few years in SEA . If you wish to insult my personal honor you may find yourself in trouble maggot.


----------



## w_r_ranch (Jan 14, 2005)

http://2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/showpost.php?p=1615612&postcount=45

http://2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/showpost.php?p=1616090&postcount=53


----------



## notthatdeep (Feb 5, 2005)

I'm NOT a liberal of any kind but support Snagged...all the way...if anyone knows what that means. I keep hearing snaggles 'soundbites' too. Anything new? Both of us served in war duty. You were in diapers when we did our stuff. Whatchagot snaggle?

ntd


----------



## rvj (May 14, 2006)

*Where in the Bible........*



Snagged said:


> Sorry I'm a true liberal. My concern is that they, as a group, refuse to even attempt to do anything. As the Bible says,"God helps those who help themselves" guess what, so do I.
> As far as being a warhawk goes, I only spent a few years in SEA . If you wish to insult my personal honor you may find yourself in trouble maggot.


Hey snagged, where in the BIBLE does it say GOD HELPS THOSE WHO HELP THEMSELVES?


----------



## snagltoothfrecklefish (Jul 27, 2004)

Snagged said:


> Sorry I'm a true liberal. My concern is that they, as a group, refuse to even attempt to do anything. As the Bible says,"God helps those who help themselves" guess what, so do I.
> As far as being a warhawk goes, I only spent a few years in SEA . If you wish to insult my personal honor you may find yourself in trouble maggot.


The Bible does not say that, but that is a good sound bite.

To much energy wasted here, back to fishing.


----------



## notthatdeep (Feb 5, 2005)

Wasn't God that said it...but it was Ben Franklin in "Poor Richard's Almanac". A pretty good source at any rate. Its not just a sound bite.

ntd


----------



## Snagged (May 21, 2004)

rvj said:


> Hey snagged, where in the BIBLE does it say GOD HELPS THOSE WHO HELP THEMSELVES?


 At my age/condition I'm lucky to remember my name.


----------



## gater (May 25, 2004)

*Yaboy*

You can't win with this group....they are experts on every topic and will keep at until you give up and that will show that they are smarter than you when actually they don't have a clue. Good luck! Gater


----------



## TOM GRAHAM (Mar 15, 2006)

gater said:


> You can't win with this group....they are experts on every topic and will keep at until you give up and that will show that they are smarter than you when actually they don't have a clue. Good luck! Gater


GATER, you are right, these government give away liberals will never see the light. UNTIL, they are mugged on the streets of NO. then, they will sneak in to the voting booth and vote conservative republican. as Winston Churhill said "if you are not a liberal at 21, you have no heart. And if you are not a conservative at 45, you have no brain"

i like Jesse's comment the other day about Obama talking down to blacks because he talks about morality in his speeches. sho does split the democratic party down the middle don't it. do you vote morallity (personal responsibiliy) (which we've seen mentioned on this thread) or do you vote to continue the same lifestyles that got the hood in the condition it's in today.

tough choice..CHOOSE WISELY


----------



## TOM GRAHAM (Mar 15, 2006)

TAKE A BREAK SNAGGED, WE'LL TAG-TEAM 'EM


----------



## Snagged (May 21, 2004)

:brew: :brew: :brew: 

OK


----------



## gater (May 25, 2004)

*Labdog*

I consider myself a Conservative and yes I believe people should try to take care of themselves, however with Katrina, if you take away the the few thousand looters and thugs that the media showed in the days after the storm we, this country, allowed our citizens to indure unneccesary hardship in the days, weeks and months following the storm. Like it or not, all of those 23,000+ people that were evacuated were not bad people. The elderly, children, and many hardworking folks were in that group at the Superdome and we treated the situation like it was some third world country, to me that is inexcusable.

By the way, I don't vote, I have not voted for anything since the early 80's and don't plan on starting anytime soon!
Gater


----------



## rvj (May 14, 2006)

*Ok*



Snagged said:


> At my age/condition I'm lucky to remember my name.


Ok fair enough.


----------



## yaboy (Aug 14, 2007)

State_Vet said:


> From my post #197:
> _Most New Orleans street gangs are not affiliated with national gangs and have fought any attempts by national gangs to organize in the city. Law enforcement agencies identify them by housing projects or neighborhoods rather than any adopted name or affiliation to a national organization. They refer to themselves as " posses" or "crews" and are well organized, but do not have a distinct hierarchy. These gangs are responsible for most drug-related and violent crimes in the city._
> 
> _It would appear that this report from the Department of Justice disputes your claim of "No gangs in New Orleans" and "every man is for himself" unless of course you were going to say they are called " posses" or "crews".  _


Okay...how many people does it take to be considered a gang? Was the Trench Coat Mafia a gang? Those cats that did dirt with Charles Manson a gang? Now we are merely fighting over terms, because even the report you provided stated that they fought off nationally recognized gangs. I already stated that you do have Ward issues in New Orleans, but those guys knock each other off within the wards, which is quite unlike a gang. You really have to do something bad in a gang to get killed by your own people.


----------



## bill (May 21, 2004)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gang


----------



## yaboy (Aug 14, 2007)

w_r_ranch said:


> http://2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/showpost.php?p=1615612&postcount=45
> 
> http://2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/showpost.php?p=1616090&postcount=53


Rose, I keep telling you, stop using Wiki to define hip hop! "Yaboy" has been a term around for ages! Can anyone that is Black on here help me out?!? You think some kid that graduated in recent history came up with that term? FYI, that guy is an inspiring rapper...no one knows who he is! Please come at me with something better than that. You obviously are not a fan of rap or hip hop, so stop acting like you know what you are speaking about with this one!


----------



## yaboy (Aug 14, 2007)

Snagged said:


> At my age/condition I'm lucky to remember my name.


LMAO That's truly funny. I can say that I definitely am happy you are around...and I am sure that others on here feel the same way. You aren't old, just seasoned! You have a knowledge base that I would love just to get a chance to hear a 10th of...that's why I love message boards. When used properly, it can be a learning experience on so many levels.


----------



## TOM GRAHAM (Mar 15, 2006)

MY FRIEND, I'M SORRY TO HEAR THAT YOU DON'T VOTE, YOU ARE PASSING ON ONE OF THE GREATEST BENIFITS OF THIS GREAT COUNTRY.

I KNOW THAT SOME OF THE POSTS I'VE MADE HERE MAKE IT APPEAR THAT I HAVE A MAJOR PROBLEM WITH BLACK FOLKS. NOTHING COULD BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH. IN MY SMALL COMPANY, 80% OF MY EMPLOYEES ARE BLACK. 4 OF THE TOP 5 PAYING JOBS ARE HELD BY BLACK FOLKS THAT I HAVE NURTURED ALONG OVER THE YEARS.

WHENEVER I THINK OF KATRINA REFUGEES, I ALWAYS GO BACK TO A PARTICULAR NEWCAST FROM THE ASTRODOME A COUPLE DAYS AFTER EVERYONE CAME TO HOUSTON. A YOUNG FEMALE REPORTER WAS INTERVIEWING PEOPLE ON THE FLOOR OF THE DOME. SHE STOPPED AN OLD BLACK MAN WHO WAS DRAGGING BAGS FULL OF TRASH AND CHANGING THE BAGS IN THE BFI/WM CONTAINERS. SHE ASKED HIM WHY HE WAS WORKING SO HARD FOR THOSE PEOPLE. HE'S RESPONSE, AND I WILL NEVER FORGET IT WAS "YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND, THESE PEOPLE DON'T KNOW HOW TO TAKE CARE OF THEMSELVES" . BEHIND HIM, YOU COULD SEE PEOPLE CLOWNING FOR THE CAMARA. THEY WERE FROM TEENAGERS TO I WOULD GUESS 40 TO MAYBE 50 YEARS OLD.

SO MY FRIEND, THE WHOLE POINT OF THIS THREAD HAS BEEN WHO TAKES CARE OF THEMSELVES. BY GIVING HAND OUTS AND CONTINUEING TO TAKE CARE OF THESEE PEOPLE EVERY NEED, WE ARE NOT DOING THEM ANY FAVORS. THEY NEED TO LEARN TO TAKE CARE OF THEMSELVES.


----------



## yaboy (Aug 14, 2007)

gater said:


> You can't win with this group....they are experts on every topic and will keep at until you give up and that will show that they are smarter than you when actually they don't have a clue. Good luck! Gater


I like the exchange of dialouge...truly. Despite the juvenile personal attacks that some people do on here, I think some people just are expressing what a lot of people are taught to believe. Some people really do feel as though everyone from New Orleans, or the vast majority, were not working, eventhough I know that was not the case. The poverty was so high in the city that a lot of working people did have government assistance, but they are paying taxes just like everyone else, so that is not getting a hand out, that is truly making use of the money you put in the system. I would loved for the wages to be higher in New Orleans, but with the corrupt nature of the state, that was not going to happen. That's why most college graduates from the city leave...no real opportunities there to advance from your surroundings. You still have a lot of natives loyal to their area, and try to work there to eventually make it a better place, but that was a slow moving process.


----------



## yaboy (Aug 14, 2007)

labdog said:


> MY FRIEND, I'M SORRY TO HEAR THAT YOU DON'T VOTE, YOU ARE PASSING ON ONE OF THE GREATEST BENIFITS OF THIS GREAT COUNTRY.
> 
> I KNOW THAT SOME OF THE POSTS I'VE MADE HERE MAKE IT APPEAR THAT I HAVE A MAJOR PROBLEM WITH BLACK FOLKS. NOTHING COULD BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH. IN MY SMALL COMPANY, 80% OF MY EMPLOYEES ARE BLACK. 4 OF THE TOP 5 PAYING JOBS ARE HELD BY BLACK FOLKS THAT I HAVE NURTURED ALONG OVER THE YEARS.
> 
> ...


I can say that I am not making in judgment calls on anyone on here. I just like to challenge mentalities. If you feel the way you do, wether that is on race, economics, socialism, whatever, I just wish for you to be able to support your position, and not say that is the way it was always done. Obviously, if your employment claims are the way that you stated they are, and fyi, I am not doubting you at all, then you have to know better than to think all Blacks are lazy and want hand outs. Unless you are a pimp, you on a daily work basis see people for people.


----------



## State_Vet (Oct 10, 2006)

yaboy said:


> Okay...how many people does it take to be considered a gang? Was the Trench Coat Mafia a gang? Those cats that did dirt with Charles Manson a gang? Now we are merely fighting over terms, because even the report you provided stated that they fought off nationally recognized gangs. I already stated that you do have Ward issues in New Orleans, but those guys knock each other off within the wards, which is quite unlike a gang. You really have to do something bad in a gang to get killed by your own people.


Just stating the facts...you made the statement and challenged us to check it out so I did and I found some pretty credible information which disputes your "fact". I'm not fighting over terms, you used "gangs" I used "gangs", it does appear that you are trying to justify your statement by creating a new "New Orleans" definition of "gang" to try to salvage your statement. Best to just let this New Orlean's "gang" discussion drop.....You've been nubbed


----------



## Snagged (May 21, 2004)

yaboy said:


> I like the exchange of dialouge...truly. Despite the juvenile personal attacks that some people do on here, I think some people just are expressing what a lot of people are taught to believe. Some people really do feel as though everyone from New Orleans, or the vast majority, were not working, eventhough I know that was not the case. The poverty was so high in the city that a lot of working people did have government assistance, but they are paying taxes just like everyone else, so that is not getting a hand out, that is truly making use of the money you put in the system. I would loved for the wages to be higher in New Orleans, but with the corrupt nature of the state, that was not going to happen. That's why most college graduates from the city leave...no real opportunities there to advance from your surroundings. You still have a lot of natives loyal to their area, and try to work there to eventually make it a better place, but that was a slow moving process.


 Your two statements in red above just show that you fail to understand your own words.
The poverty level is caused by people being unwilling to work because of handouts. When I was in business I had people refuse raises because it would cost them government supplied bennies. Guess what, these people never get out of the slums.

You mention the corrupt nature of La politicians, who elects those politicians? They have the government they deserve.


----------



## w_r_ranch (Jan 14, 2005)

yaboy said:


> FYI, that guy is an inspiring rapper...no one knows who he is! Please come at me with something better than that. You obviously are not a fan of rap or hip hop, so stop acting like you know what you are speaking about with this one!


 There is no such thing as an inspiring rapper... an inspiring wrapper is what a Snickers or Milkyway bar is enclosed in... you peel it off & throw it away after eating the candy.

As far as being a fan of hiphop or rap, I can truthfully say that no self-respecting American would listen to that C R A P.

And if THAT is the best YOU got, stay on the porch where you're safe.


----------



## State_Vet (Oct 10, 2006)

w_r_ranch said:


> There is no such thing as an inspiring rapper... an inspiring wrapper is what a Snickers or Milkyway bar is enclosed in... you peel it off & throw it away after eating the candy.


Now that is funny! LOL


----------



## Mad Mike (Dec 28, 2005)

"There is no such thing as an inspiring rapper... an inspiring wrapper is what a Snickers or Milkyway bar is enclosed in... you peel it off & throw it away after eating the candy."

Quote of the year!!!

MB


----------



## yaboy (Aug 14, 2007)

State_Vet said:


> Just stating the facts...you made the statement and challenged us to check it out so I did and I found some pretty credible information which disputes your "fact". I'm not fighting over terms, you used "gangs" I used "gangs", it does appear that you are trying to justify your statement by creating a new "New Orleans" definition of "gang" to try to salvage your statement. Best to just let this New Orlean's "gang" discussion drop.....You've been nubbed


I love the nubb!!! Truly, if there are no nationally recognized gangs in New Orleans, as per your information as well as mine, then how is my statement not a fact? If you wish to define a definition of a gang, then why stop there? I guess they do have cartels there as well. If any like minded people get together, as per definition of a gang, then we are considered a gang at 2coolfishing!

New Orleans did not have nationally recognized gangs. They did have people that lived in the same area that may have sold drugs or something of that nature, but their wasn't a true allegiance among them. They killed each other all the time...just check the Times Picayunne.


----------



## yaboy (Aug 14, 2007)

Snagged said:


> Your two statements in red above just show that you fail to understand your own words.
> The poverty level is caused by people being unwilling to work because of handouts. When I was in business I had people refuse raises because it would cost them government supplied bennies. Guess what, these people never get out of the slums.
> 
> You mention the corrupt nature of La politicians, who elects those politicians? They have the government they deserve.


You do not understand the economy in New Orleans. Let's leave the N.O. out of it and look at a company that was the number one company in the world for a year or two before the oil boom...Walmart. The full time workers there were often given the names and numbers of government agencies so they could apply for Medicare and things of that nature. The wages were purposely set low so the company would not have to pay into a decent insurance company/policy for the workers, of course to maximize wages.

Also keep in mind that New Orleans make up a small percentage of LA, so those who were voted in was not the sole responsibility of the N.O. Also, I will not bring up all the very bad voting practices that LA had for century after century.


----------



## yaboy (Aug 14, 2007)

w_r_ranch said:


> There is no such thing as an inspiring rapper... an inspiring wrapper is what a Snickers or Milkyway bar is enclosed in... you peel it off & throw it away after eating the candy.
> 
> As far as being a fan of hiphop or rap, I can truthfully say that no self-respecting American would listen to that C R A P.
> 
> And if THAT is the best YOU got, stay on the porch where you're safe.


LMAO I love snickers! That is a great post!

Okay, hip hop is the number one art form, so that probably explains why the U.S. is the way it is...wait, this generation of hip hop listeners aren't the one running the world...well, maybe we need hip hop listeners running things!

FYI, the majority of hip hop buyers and listeners are Whites and Asians, so much so that one of the Presidents had a party, and invited L.L. Cool J to perform for their daughter. Hip Hop is this generation's rock and roll. Rose, you are showing your age man!!! LOL


----------



## Snagged (May 21, 2004)

NO and La have the government and economy they deserve.


----------



## yaboy (Aug 14, 2007)

Snagged said:


> NO and La have the government and economy they deserve.


Considering that it was one of the major, if not the biggest, slave ports in the U.S., I can not completely disagree with you there.


----------



## bill (May 21, 2004)

2008


----------



## State_Vet (Oct 10, 2006)

yaboy said:


> I love the nubb!!! Truly, if there are no nationally recognized gangs in New Orleans, as per your information as well as mine, then how is my statement not a fact? If you wish to define a definition of a gang, then why stop there? I guess they do have cartels there as well. If any like minded people get together, as per definition of a gang, then we are considered a gang at 2coolfishing!
> 
> New Orleans did not have nationally recognized gangs. They did have people that lived in the same area that may have sold drugs or something of that nature, but their wasn't a true allegiance among them. They killed each other all the time...just check the Times Picayunne.


You said:

* "**Just for the record, New Orleans does not have gangs...too poor of a community to have gangs. Every man is for himself in New Orleans. I just had to point that out, and since we have so many people on here that knows so much about New Orleans, they will be able to validate that claim."*

I tried to validate it and it proved to be false and now you're trying to change things up by saying "no nationally recognized gangs". Just admit you are wrong and we can leave this dead horse alone. You are the one presenting yourself as the "expert" but when someone does a little research and find something that disputes your claim you dismiss it as incorrect or change the way you were saying it.

Just for the record&#8230;&#8230;You were wrong again on the population. The New Orleans MSA makes up a large part of the states population.

http://doa.louisiana.gov/census/93metro.htm

For U.S. Census purposes, this MSA includes seven parishes: Jefferson, Orleans, Plaquemines, St. Bernard, St. Tammany, St. Charles, and St. John the Baptist.

Here is a breakdown of population by Parish:

http://wwwprd.doa.louisiana.gov/census/2000/parish2000poprank.pdf



Bottom line if your going to present yourself as an expert on something here and challenge people to check it out, you should do your research first instead of blowing smoke


----------



## yaboy (Aug 14, 2007)

State_Vet said:


> You said:
> 
> *"**Just for the record, New Orleans does not have gangs...too poor of a community to have gangs. Every man is for himself in New Orleans. I just had to point that out, and since we have so many people on here that knows so much about New Orleans, they will be able to validate that claim."*
> 
> ...


Wait, when did I say that I was a New Orleans expert?!? Also, I have said quite often that I was referring to New Orleans, and not the metropolitan area. I am not talking about all those parishes, because the parish they focused in on was Orleans parish when they did all the footage from Katrina. They were not speaking about how Jefferson parish's deputies stayed on the CCC bridge with gun drawn to make sure that Orleans Parish residents did not make it there. A lot of the surrounding parishes were either wiped away, hard working people by the way that needed assistance to get on there feet, or were not willing to let Orleans parish residents into there area for various reasons.

I don't even know why you brought up the census data...help me out with that again!


----------



## Snagged (May 21, 2004)

Poor child.


----------



## State_Vet (Oct 10, 2006)

Snagged said:


> Poor child.


I agree and I rest my case.hwell:


----------

