# Bad news in west bay!!!!!



## shallowist

I found a dredge working the intracoastal waterway last week, west of Carancahua Point. That in itself wouldn't be such an issue, but the Corps of Engineers is pumping the dredge material over the existing spoil islands onto the bay side. I mentioned this to a few friends, after noticing that they have already moved the dredge to a second spot. They are pumping all of the dredge material directly on top of the grass flats that have taken years to grow. The first area that they have dumped is covered with silty mud along with some hard areas for several hundred yards. The first dump site, on the day that I was out, had an area that was previously grass covered and averaging about a foot deep. That area now has a dry land patch that is over 100 yards wide and extending nearly that far out into the bay across the flat.

I mentioned this to Captain Trim, who had the opportunity to go out with Marcos Enriquez. They took numerous pictures of the areas where the dumping is going on, along with a short video. The dredge was moved to a 3rd dumping location when they late last week. This process moves very fast, I believe this has all happened within the span of about 2 weeks. They started on the last existing spoil west of Carancahua Point and are working their way back to the east. From all indications from the Corps, they will be dredging all the way east to Louisanna.

This is something of a call for help. Captain Trim has been calling all over to find some help for our bay and running into a ton of road blocks. If anyone has any information that will help in re-directing the Corps of Engineers to another solution to the current dumping plan, please post up. James has a date with a photographer and reporter for Wednesday, so if all goes well there will be some publicity about this. He is trying to reach the US Game and Fisheries division. If this proves to be effective, I will post contact, so that the angling voice can be heard.

I have attached a short video that they shot last week of the active dredge dumping. This video doesn't show the extent of the damage, but it is significant.


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## RedfishAssassin

I was just by them doing some work right there, and i cant stand it.


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## Over The Top

I just posted on Fishing Reports where Shallowist originally posted. This pristine shoreline is becoming a MUDHOLE! We need to get on this right away because the dredge is working fast.....


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## jim smarr

I just sent this link to Robin Riechers the Director of Coastal Fisheries at TPWD and asked if this is permitted and or legal. I am sure he will let us know soon.

Jim Smarr
Recreational Fishing Alliance-Texas
joinrfa.org
361-463-1558


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## speckle-catcher

Doesn't the Galveston Bay Foundation play a big role in replanting marsh grasses?

I would contact them.


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## Ex Boat Capt. Carp

I can not believe the corp is letting this happen, grass is coming along in WestBay and now this. The corp and TPWD need to jump all over this a quick.


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## Over The Top

I will call Galveston Bay Foundation first thing in the morning. We need other people to call for a larger impact as time is of the essence. It will take a long time to replace this seagrass.


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## reeltimer

This is worse than prop scarring!You not only have grass up there but oysters as well.I think we need a occupy west bay shoreline movement.Some of us have noticed over the last few years the grass has made a comeback over there.TP&W i know your on here!


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## Texxan1

Steve, 

Let us know anything you find out.. This is absolutely the WORST thing that could happen for upper west bay. That grass has been taking hold and expanding rapidly over the last few years and this will completely kill that entire area if its allowed to happen.

If anyone has numbers to call, post them up. We need an all out assault on this to get it stopped NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## WestEndAngler

I have sent an e-mail to Emily with Galveston Bay Foundation and contacted Shannon Tompkins & Joe Kent. Glad someone got on the horn to TPWD.

I was over there this weekend and it's shoaled in good in some areas. The grass had really started to come back in the area & Oyster reefs line the western shoreline at the bend where the dump site was.


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## Buffalo

I also sent an email to the Galveston Bay Foundation.


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## capt mullet

unbelievable that we spend all of this taxpayer money to protect the seagrasses and some freakin morons from the dredge company ruins it. 

I hope this is illegal so they can fine that company big time and stop it immediately


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## RedfishAssassin

This SHOULD be illegal because the TPWL has signs posted everywhere down south in the grassy area's that are no prop zones, so shouldnt the dumping of this stuff be illegal too? Or are these grass beds not protected like the ones in rockport/aransas pass?


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## Miles2Fish

try calling the TCEQ for a start.....


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## Wading Mark

Good Lawd, I can't believe someone is doing something so idiotic.


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## TL Rebel

Any update? Did anyone have any luck getting in touch with someone who knows what is going on?


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## Sow Trout

My thoughts exactly. We are worried about prop scars???? Hypocrisy!


reeltimer said:


> This is worse than prop scarring!You not only have grass up there but oysters as well.I think we need a occupy west bay shoreline movement.Some of us have noticed over the last few years the grass has made a comeback over there.TP&W i know your on here!


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## Sow Trout

Isn't Jim Blackburn the environmental lawyer for the Galveston Bay Foundation? Maybe a call to him could get it stopped.


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## JimG

This is a disaster!! That is the most beautiful spot in the Galveston Bay complex, and someone is killing it?!?!

What can we do? Post up some phone numbers if you have any, I'll start working the phones and emails too...


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## Ex Boat Capt. Carp

A couple years back when they were in the ditch and also did the cut, they pumped on to the islands/ spoilbanks. I wonder why they are not doing it this time, might be a new company or they think they are getting away with something!!??


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## netboy

They did the same thing down here in the ULM about 7 or 8 years ago. The dredge was working south of the JFK and ran a pipe accross the spoil islands into Nighthawk Bay at different intervals. Then they pumped the dredge material into Nighthawk Bay. It took a couple of years for the grass to come back, but now you would never know it happened. I've caught lots of reds wading those areas since then.

I am pretty sure the dredge operators have the proper permits to dump in those areas before they get started.


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## gater

*Dredging*

I will be on the phone this morning to see if this can be stopped and find an alternative dumping site.

There is nothing illegal going on here as this is a permitted dredge disposal site and has been for a long time. The difference is that the last time the ICW was dredged in that area there were no grass beds. Not defending the Corp here, they may have not been aware of the grass beds and I am not sure they do any type of impact studies on pre designated spoil sites.

The best thing any of you can do at this point is to bombard some of the agencies list in this thread with phone calls. The GLO, TP&WD, Galveston Bay Foundation, Corp of Engineers in Galveston and the local media.

Thanks Capt. Steve and capt. Trim for bringing this to our attention. It's been about a month since I was last that way and at that time the dredge was between Chocolate and Cow Bayou.

Gater


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## WestEndAngler

gater said:


> I was last that way and at that time the dredge was between Chocolate and Cow Bayou.
> 
> Gater


It showed up between Sunday of last week & Saturday this week...It was already in place when I passed the dredge Saturday AM heading to Chocolate.


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## Capt. Shep

"This is the WORST thing that could happen to west bay" "This is a disaster"







HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA This sounds like a stump hugging fourm. Give the trout another muddy bottom to lay up in in the winter. Is there a PETA for grass and oysters???

And no im am not with the dreging company nor do i have anything to do with whats going on.


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## Timemachine

Capt. Shep said:


> "This is the WORST thing that could happen to west bay" "This is a disaster"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA This sounds like a stump hugging fourm. Give the trout another muddy bottom to lay up in in the winter. Is there a PETA for grass and oysters???
> 
> And no im am not with the dreging company nor do i have anything to do with whats going on.


You're an IDIOT. Take your sorry arse to some other website. You are not welcome here moroon.

That word is probably too big for you. Here:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Moroon


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## Timemachine

I am in the Marine engineering Group for a large company. I work with dredging issues/permits every day. They should have never been issued a permit for disturbing a Seagrass area. Once the truth is know, I'm sure that spoil barges were to be used. This is policy in the USA and as well as Australia. They are taking the cheap rout and hoping nobody is watching. 

They think that if they do get caught, the fine will far less than the use of spoil collecting and dumping in a designated sight.

Where are all the Lawyers when we need one????????


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## jewfish

*Maybe not so bad*

Hello all, I am Sea Aggies 35, new to this site so I am posting on Jewfish for now. This subject caught my attention as I just sat through a discussion on exactly this topic through Texas A & M in Galveston.
The dredging may be an attempt to restore the bay and or surrounding wetlands by the beneficial use of dredged material (BUD). This process has been used in areas in and around Jamaica beach to slow the erosion process and re-establish these estuaries. At first it looks horrible but in the end these "birds Mounds" ( which is what it sounds like they are creating), will be replanted. These areas generally will be blocked off by geo textile tubes in order to act as a breakwater and allow the new area to mature and grow. They have proven very beneficial thus far and many are now excellant fishing areas. The bays and estuaries are vital to not only for our fish populations, but for water quality, coastal processes, and for the vast amount of other animals that depend on these areas. Rebuilding these areas is of great importance. Give it time and I think you will see the long term benefits will greatly out weigh the short term disruption.


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## Timemachine

jewfish said:


> Hello all, I am Sea Aggies 35... Give it time and I think you will see the long term benefits will greatly out weigh the short term disruption.


Sure hope your right my friend. Thanks for the input.


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## MsAddicted

jewfish said:


> Hello all, I am Sea Aggies 35, new to this site so I am posting on Jewfish for now. This subject caught my attention as I just sat through a discussion on exactly this topic through Texas A & M in Galveston.
> The dredging may be an attempt to restore the bay and or surrounding wetlands by the beneficial use of dredged material (BUD). This process has been used in areas in and around Jamaica beach to slow the erosion process and re-establish these estuaries. At first it looks horrible but in the end these "birds Mounds" ( which is what it sounds like they are creating), will be replanted. These areas generally will be blocked off by geo textile tubes in order to act as a breakwater and allow the new area to mature and grow. They have proven very beneficial thus far and many are now excellant fishing areas. The bays and estuaries are vital to not only for our fish populations, but for water quality, coastal processes, and for the vast amount of other animals that depend on these areas. Rebuilding these areas is of great importance. Give it time and I think you will see the long term benefits will greatly out weigh the short term disruption.


The input is appreciated but I dont think you are familiar with that area. Have you seen the N shoreline of west bay? It is a beautiful, healthy and wonderfully productive grassbed shoreline that has taken years to become established. I see no benefit to this type of dredge dumping at all, not when they are dumping onto an area like that. The substrate is firm and wadeable, the water is normally crystal clear year round and it is RARE in west galveston bay to find that.

I sent off an email directed to the game wardens at TPW this morning and included my concerns regarding the grassbeds as well as a link to another message board on which this same information is posted. I tried to include all 3 message boards where I have seen this but it wouldnt let me include more than one link. I dont know if that is the appropriate TPW department to direct it to but emails and phone calls are going to all offices of all agencies we can think of so hopefully someone will get alarmed somewhere. (in time, I hope)


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## southpaw

jewfish said:


> Hello all, I am Sea Aggies 35, new to this site so I am posting on Jewfish for now. This subject caught my attention as I just sat through a discussion on exactly this topic through Texas A & M in Galveston.
> The dredging may be an attempt to restore the bay and or surrounding wetlands by the beneficial use of dredged material (BUD). This process has been used in areas in and around Jamaica beach to slow the erosion process and re-establish these estuaries. At first it looks horrible but in the end these "birds Mounds" ( which is what it sounds like they are creating), will be replanted. These areas generally will be blocked off by geo textile tubes in order to act as a breakwater and allow the new area to mature and grow. They have proven very beneficial thus far and many are now excellant fishing areas. The bays and estuaries are vital to not only for our fish populations, but for water quality, coastal processes, and for the vast amount of other animals that depend on these areas. Rebuilding these areas is of great importance. Give it time and I think you will see the long term benefits will greatly out weigh the short term disruption.


That's what I'm thinking. We learned about these kind of projects in my coastal engineering classes. In the long run it could help the sea grass take hold, so hopefully this is what's going on.


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## gater

*Jewfish*



jewfish said:


> Hello all, I am Sea Aggies 35, new to this site so I am posting on Jewfish for now. This subject caught my attention as I just sat through a discussion on exactly this topic through Texas A & M in Galveston.
> The dredging may be an attempt to restore the bay and or surrounding wetlands by the beneficial use of dredged material (BUD). This process has been used in areas in and around Jamaica beach to slow the erosion process and re-establish these estuaries. At first it looks horrible but in the end these "birds Mounds" ( which is what it sounds like they are creating), will be replanted. These areas generally will be blocked off by geo textile tubes in order to act as a breakwater and allow the new area to mature and grow. They have proven very beneficial thus far and many are now excellant fishing areas. The bays and estuaries are vital to not only for our fish populations, but for water quality, coastal processes, and for the vast amount of other animals that depend on these areas. Rebuilding these areas is of great importance. Give it time and I think you will see the long term benefits will greatly out weigh the short term disruption.


Jewfish your input is greatly appreciated and I understand what you are talking about. However, as MsAddicted mentioned this is not the same thing. These grass beds were not planted as part of any restoration project but have taken root on it's own. It's believed to have started from drifting grass that has made it's way across from West Galveston Island.
The dredge material will smother it and it will years to get back to what it is now if ever.

Gater


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## southpaw

Can anyone post a map with markings showing where this is going on? My old coastal engineering prof worked for the Army Corps of Engineers. I'll shoot them an email to see what their input might be and see if they can contact the right people.


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## Ex Boat Capt. Carp

There is a HUGE difference in the type of grass that is growing now and what will be planted. What will be planted is saltgrass and that is not what is growing in WESTBAY right now after 30 some odd years in the water underneath the water!!!


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## Animal Chris

Has anyone contacted the CCA on this? I'd be interested in hearing their take on this project.


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## gater

*Grass*

I have made several phone calls this morning. IMHO the 3 most important calls you can make are to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (David Hoth 281-286-3899) National Marine Fisheries (email [email protected] is off until after the 1/1/12 but is checking emails) and the Corps of Engineers Galveston (766-3899 not a direct line but asked to speak to the person in charge of dredging projects)

Not positive but I believe the only agency that can shut a Federal agency down is another Federal agency so the above 3 would be a good place to start. Remember, this could be something that was simply missed so keep your phone calls and emails civil, it goes a long way.

By the way, the USFWS did say even though this is more a NMFS issue they would send a biologist to investigate. For what it's worth the person I spoke to at the Corps said they would pass the info the people in charge of the project.

gater


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## crawdaddct

We have these threads every time there is dredging. As long as the dredging company has permits and keeps their discharge pipe in the spoil area, they are legal. If you look at any GPS unit, it will show the spoil areas. 

That being said, these spoil areas where designated a long time ago and the bay system has changed. Maybe there need to be legislation to require an environmental impact study before dredging is allowed. They could designate new spoil areas where it is needed.


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## Ex Boat Capt. Carp

NOAA and NMF Ha do not make us laugh these guys are a joke, good luck with that one!!!


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## Smackdaddy53

I dont understand why things like this are allowed to happen when there is so much fuss over preserving the seagrass all the time. If its natural why is it being altered by pumping stinkin mud on top of it? Is it just pure laziness and this is the easiest route? Ive never seen the area you guys are talking about but if this were to happen in POC or san antonio bay there would be a riot


-mac-


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## gater

*CCA*



Animal Chris said:


> Has anyone contacted the CCA on this? I'd be interested in hearing their take on this project.


Yes they have been contacted and I am going to talk to them this morning. One thing you have to remember here is we are dealing with the Federal Goverment, and we all know how that works. maybe they will suprise us!

Gater


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## Snookered

southpaw said:


> Can anyone post a map with markings showing where this is going on?


X 2. can someone get on google and post up a map?
thanks,
snookered


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## FishFinder

No answer on Hoths line!


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## TooShallow

If it's a designated spoil area then I doubt there is much that can be done short term. Very unfortunate. I lost one of my favorite wading areas in the LLM to just this type of activity. That was about ten years ago and it still is not the same.


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## Bay Front

Devestated! Our family has owned a house in Sea Isle since 1973. Over the last couple of years I have been fishing/watching this area explode with grass. See attached article regarding last time there was this much grass on this shoreline....1956!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Someone needs to be held accountable!

http://www.galvbaydata.org/Habitat/Seagrass/tabid/732/Default.aspx


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## JimG

If you've been there you know why this is so upsetting... the water is gin-clear, wildlife (piggies, rays, crabs, etc) are everywhere. It's like Florida, right in Galveston Bay. It's just beautiful!


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## gater

*Accountable*



Bay Front said:


> Devestated! Our family has owned a house in Sea Isle since 1973. Over the last couple of years I have been fishing/watching this area explode with grass. See attached article regarding last time there was this much grass on this shoreline....1956!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Someone needs to be held accountable!
> 
> http://www.galvbaydata.org/Habitat/Seagrass/tabid/732/Default.aspx


Not sure how you can hold anyone accountable. They have the permits and the right to do what they are doing. I our eyes it's wrong but it is not illegal.

Gater


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## Mont

Over The Top said:


> I just posted on Fishing Reports where Shallowist originally posted. This pristine shoreline is becoming a MUDHOLE! We need to get on this right away because the dredge is working fast.....


Either follow the rules here or you will end up in banned camp. The reports section is for reports only.


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## gater

*Hoths*



FishFinder said:


> No answer on Hoths line!


At 7:30am this morning he told me he already had numerous phone calls and emails. Gater


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## fangard

Timemachine said:


> You're an IDIOT. Take your sorry arse to some other website. You are not welcome here moroon.
> 
> That word is probably too big for you. Here:
> 
> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Moroon


This is an open forum. He is entitled to his opinion.

Can't speak for him, but I could think of worse things that can happen, maybe an oil spill or something?

Also, I am not sure what a moroon is since I can't pull up what you referenced as a legitimate source of information(my employer thinks differently). Cross between a moron and an Aggie?


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## Over The Top

Galveston Bay Foundation is at least aware of the situation. See the email from this AM: 


"Thanks for your e-mail Gary. We'll look into this ASAP and see what we can find and what might be done about it. I'll get back to you as soon as we can. Thanks again.

Bob Stokes"


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## Laguna Freak

fangard said:


> This is an open forum. He is entitled to his opinion.
> 
> Also, I am not sure what a moroon is since I can't pull up what you referenced as a legitimate source of information(my employer thinks differently). *Cross between a moron and an Aggie?*


ROFLMAO...Hook 'Em!!!


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## Timemachine

fangard said:


> Cross between a moron and an Aggie?


Bwahahaha...that's some funny stuff right there. (and dang close I might add)

"constructed using the words moron and baboon. Used mainly for brutish persons, boors who aren't too clever either."

I too was expressing an opinion. Thanks for your support.


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## MaiChip

Look on your map for Caranchua(sp) lake. There is a cut going into West bay across from the entrance to the lake. The shorelines East and West are where this is taking place.


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## RedfishAssassin

southpaw said:


> Can anyone post a map with markings showing where this is going on? My old coastal engineering prof worked for the Army Corps of Engineers. I'll shoot them an email to see what their input might be and see if they can contact the right people.


The black is marking the seagrass, the white is marking where they already dumped at. I fished that area yesterday and was trying to figure out why the water was super super off color in that area, got home started reading this and it dawned on me whats going on, its worse to see in person after the dumping took place the water looks horrible.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us


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## gater

*Grass*

Ok here is what I have found out this morning.

First I spoke with the Owner of the dredging company and from what he tells me is that the permit only allows them to dump dredge material in that area from November 1st - March 1st when the seagrass is dormant. I am not a scientist but that did not make any sense and the biologist from TP&WD laughed when I told him that. The dredge owner told me they are headed north for another 6 miles.

There is a Water Resource Conservation Plan that is run by the GLO, TP&WD, and the TNRCC there are guidelines that address this and in speaking with the TP&WD they are currently reviewing permits concerning this project.

The TP&WD agree's with everyone here but they are limited in what they can do. As they mentioned to me and as I mentioned earlier we are dealing with the Feds.

TP&WD is on top of it and they have been bombarded with calls this morning.

TP&WD told me that they have been contacted by CCA requesting help in this matter.

While the TP&WD look into this, the suggestion that was made to me is to bombard the Corps of Engineers Regulatory Branch with phone calls. That number is 409-766-3982, they have the ultimate word.

This shows that there needs to be changes in the way the State and Feds issue/review permits. There needs to stipulations to where there are periodic reviews of long standing permits so if there are changes to the enviroment they can be addressed before proceeding.

*I can tell you this, you have got some people's attention this morning.* Keep it up by calling the *USACE 409-766-3982* and let them know your concerns.

Gater


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## RedfishAssassin

I shot an email to Galveston Daily News about it to see if they can help.


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## PHINS

They are also about to put geotubes in starvation cove.


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## Snookered

thanks for the map Redfish assasin, that's exactly where I was thinking....

so if I just take your area in white, add some crude dimensions to it, we're somewhere in the neighborhood of 35 acres of seagrass that's been impacted, just in that area....not withstanding the additional 6 miles they're going to do....

dang shame the TPWD Commission is so focused on a few seagrass scars down the coast when the USACE is wiping out seagrass by the acre up the coast....now I understand they have their permits and all, and the area might have even been created by dredge in the past, but still makes me wonder why the lower coast fishermen are getting punished for a few scratches where the Commission could focus on other larger issues...
snookered


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## RedfishAssassin

What I don't understand is if TPWL issued the permits why in the hell would they put the spoil site right on top of the seagrass?! I don't get it. Don't they have a map of the grass?


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## Animal Chris

I don't know but it sounds like one of these, "well, maybe if we hurry we can get it done before anyone notices what we are doing" projects.


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## Texxan1

Thanks for the info Steve. I made a few phone calls this morning and found out kinda the same information.

I did ask when an EIS ( environmental impact statement) was done and there has not been one done in the last 7 years that anyone is aware of. So we will see what happens here.

I am far from a tree hugger or enviromentalist but I do have a BS and MS in natural resources and this is not something that should have slipped through the permit tracks

The late Capt Chris Phillips helped a tpwd crew in the late 80's survey and mark original growth grass and help plant a little additional grass in this area and he always talked about the growth potential of this area with me. I have spent countless days wading and poling these flats and its as close to pristine as you can get in the galveston area.

I am thankful so many people feel the same way and we can make our voice heard about this area, and future area's that may have the same impact from work like this. I understand the work has to be done, but there are other ways to do the work.


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## gater

*Permits*



RedfishAssassin said:


> What I don't understand is if TPWL issued the permits why in the hell would they put the spoil site right on top of the seagrass?! I don't get it. Don't they have a map of the grass?


RA, the Parks and Wildlife does not issue the permits, the USACE issues the permits, the reviews the permits but evidently only new ones. The problem is the permits were issued many years ago for routine maintenance dredging. The permited disposal areas are on most all maps including your GPS. This grass started growing a few years before "Ike" and really took off after the storm. The dredge owner acted like the Corps was aware and added that the dumping can only take place during the dormant season which does not make any sense.

From what I was told, some studies have indicated that a few inches of silt will not kill the grass and in some cases the nutrients may help it. However we are not dealing with a few iches more like a couple of feet.

Gater


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## capt mullet

this freakin thing makes me want to puke. The ONLY area in Galveston bay with natural growing THICK grass and they are killing it! 

THANK YOU GATER FOR ALL OF YOUR EFFORTS!!


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## gater

*Grass*

Rusty Swafford from the NMFS emailed me back and said that they are aware of the issue and are currently working with the USACE to get the issue resolved.

Thats good news in the sense that we have two Federal agencies talking to each other about the issue.

We did accomplish one thing today, actually the last few days and that is getting the attention of the ones that can correct it. Not sure what more we can do other than "Occupy the ICW"









Gater


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## gmac

I have some experience here so let me see if I can clear up some things, though I do welcome comment and absolutely hate what is going on here. There are no permits involved at all. There is a Dredged Material Placement Plan in place that allows this dumping. From what I understand, the Corps and TxDOT, as the local sponsor of the GIWW, are in the process of revising and updating that plan. As what happened to the Houston Ship Channel the new plan will most likely NOT include open bay disposal, though I can't guarantee that. I don't think there is much we can do to halt this latest dredging event, but hope I am wrong. 
What we can be thinking about now is restoring what was altered. The Galveston Bay Foundation has some experience in replanting seagrass and may can help with this. I bet there are a lot of folks on here who would be willing to volunteer to transplant seagrasses. NMFS and USFWS both also have experience in transplanting seagrass. 
I am impressed with the passion being shown on this site. Not sure what would happen if not for 2cool and its members getting involved.


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## Mont

If GBF or any other group wants help with transplanting seagrass, you can count 2cool in for that project.


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## Ex Boat Capt. Carp

We have been fishing that area for the last many years now and we just marvel at the fact that the grass is growing and growing well, the best and most since I have been fishing out here since the late70s. Now all I see is just a complete dead zone and no grass is going to grow where they dumped this gunk. I was out there a couple years ago almost everyday and I was talking to the owner of the dredge company about Carancahua cut my best and dearest and only friend has owned many acres of both sides of that cut for many years ( he passed away last year). We got them to dredge that cut just a little more than usual, o-k back to point. They were dumping on the islands/ spoil banks and not dumping in the water. Even after IKE it all seem to come back in fine shape but now I feel they have ruined what mother nature and time have done. If one of us was out there an average Joe doing something like this they would make examples of us and have us up on all types of charges and our names would be all over the news, I wonder what they are going to truly do about this. What has been done can not be undone but they can stop them as of right now and not let them continue!!!


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## JimG

Your pressure is working! I just got a call from the GLO. He said there have been many calls on this today. He explained:

The placement areas (in this case 62&63) were designated 50 years ago. The dredge company is just doing what they always do. But, they have contacted the dredge supervisor, and he is visiting the site today to see if there is a way to mitigate the damage. I was also given a number at the COE, (he said they have been inundated by calls too, GO 2COOLERS!), and I called and left a message.

The fellow at the GLO was kind enough to listen to my description of this beautiful place and commended us on our action and concern. KEEP UP THE PRESSURE!

Jim


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## gater

*Dredging*



JimG said:


> Your pressure is working! I just got a call from the GLO. He said there have been many calls on this today. He explained:
> 
> The placement areas (in this case 62&63) were designated 50 years ago. The dredge company is just doing what they always do. But, they have contacted the dredge supervisor, and he is visiting the site today to see if there is a way to mitigate the damage. I was also given a number at the COE, (he said they have been inundated by calls too, GO 2COOLERS!), and I called and left a message.
> 
> The fellow at the GLO was kind enough to listen to my description of this beautiful place and commended us on our action and concern. KEEP UP THE PRESSURE!
> 
> Jim


Thanks for the info Jim!

Gater


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## RedfishAssassin

gater said:


> Rusty Swafford from the NMFS emailed me back and said that they are aware of the issue and are currently working with the USACE to get the issue resolved.
> 
> Thats good news in the sense that we have two Federal agencies talking to each other about the issue.
> 
> We did accomplish one thing today, actually the last few days and that is getting the attention of the ones that can correct it. Not sure what more we can do other than "Occupy the ICW"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gater


Im down for the Occupy the ICW. It'll just be a big party and fishing haha!

On the serious side, i got an interview with the Galveston daily news about it tomorrow at 10 AM with a reporter. Even if they resolve the issue now, this might prevent problems in the future and show how important the grass beds are to us and the environment. By no means am i a tree huger, but this is important.


----------



## Bruce J

Great job posting this up, Steve, and for everyone's quick reactions.


----------



## JimG

If someone want to call me a tree-hugger over this, I'll proudly wear the name... This is (was) a beautiful spot...

Curious about something: Do our conservation groups get copies of this before hand? The pdf I saw with clear maps of the discharge areas were dated April 2011. I wish we would have known then...


----------



## gater

*Grass*



RedfishAssassin said:


> Im down for the Occupy the ICW. It'll just be a big party and fishing haha!
> 
> On the serious side, i got an interview with the Galveston daily news about it tomorrow at 10 AM with a reporter. Even if they resolve the issue now, this might prevent problems in the future and show how important the grass beds are to us and the environment. By no means am i a tree huger, but this is important.


Have you spent the night in the ICW, the skeeters are softball size!









You are correct in preventing this from happening in the future. Even if you don't fish West Bay, the fact that this grass is not only growing but flourishing and expanding at a rapid rate shows how much the water quality has improved over the years. As the grass expands it will only get better and your dang right it's important and worth protecting. Thanks for getting with the media, I believe Capt. Trim had a photo shoot scheduled out there today or tomorrow.

Gater


----------



## reeltimer

gater said:


> Have you spent the night in the ICW, the skeeters are softball size!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are correct in preventing this from happening in the future. Even if you don't fish West Bay, the fact that this grass is not only growing but flourishing and expanding at a rapid rate shows how much the water quality has improved over the years. As the grass expands it will only get better and your dang right it's important and worth protecting. Thanks for getting with the media, I believe Capt. Trim had a photo shoot scheduled out there today or tomorrow.
> 
> Gater


It's tomorrow gater and this was fast tracked to Ron Paul as well and as far as state or local agencies there's not much we can do.The feds are the one 's that have to stop this and dealing with that 900lb gorilla is a task.Getting the public behind this is what has to happen and its almost 5 oclock so we should watch the local station and see if the message has got out.


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## Golden

PROBABLY THE NICEST SPOT IN WEST BAY. FISHED THERE FOR SOW TROUT LAST SPRING. HERE ARE SOME PICTURES FROM THE LAST TIME I WAS DOWN THERE.










































I KNOW THE SALTIES FROM TEXAS FLYFISHERS WILL HELP RE-PLANT GRASS DOWN THERE JUST LET US KNOW WHEN AND WHERE.


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## WestEndAngler

It's not looking any better... After they are done just West of Carranchua cut, they will be West of Greens and working their way down over to Meacoms and spoiles that line the entrance to Jones. This could shut down some good fishing and cover some good reef as they stock pile material improving the spoil bank to protect the ICW.

Here is a PDF of the entire plan from Bastrop to Causeway. It was permitted back in 2010. I had a 30 minute conversation with the ACOE today and new project manager. They have a supervisor heading out to the disposal site to investigate further today.

http://www.fishwestend.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=17535&d=1324412062


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## toehead

I have been in contact with the COE since Monday 12/12 and they were supposed to send someone down there to check on what the dredge contractor was doing on the 14th. I could They are supposed to baffle the discharge pipe and move it often but it does not look like they are doing that. The contact with the COE (Corps of Engrs) is Michelle at 409-766-3833. Please call her and raise cane. I have copied an email string that includes comments from the National Marine Fisheries regional director as well. 



*From:* Rusty Swafford [mailto:[email protected]] 
*Sent:* Friday, December 16, 2011 7:20 AM
*To:* Heather Young
*Subject:* Re: West Bay Marsh

Phil & Paul,

I am in West Virginia right now and will be out until the first week of January. From the little bit I got from Paul's comments in thi email string Phil sent me, apparently the COE is using the Laguna Madre Seagrass window that basically lets them dredge from November to early March, while the seagrass is photsynthetically inactive (water is too cold for the chemical proceess of photosynthesis). Based upon Laguna sediment modelling done by Dr. Ken Dunton at UTMSI and assoicated water quality monitoring looking at disposal of very fine grained material in the open waters of the Laguna, the fines from the PAs are basically washed away after 2-3 months and you can't find Total Suspended Solids (TSS) over the ambient water conditions taken from control areas. A complementary study looking directly at the seagrass impacts by Dr. Pete Sheridan who worked at our NMFS lab at the time, also found recovery happened rather quickly usually within the first summer season (i.e., the rhyzomes are still there and can come up through the thin layer and the Halodule is like a weed). With the project ongoing, I doubt there is any real legal way to shut the project down. It is under a Federal contract and it would lkey cost upwards of millions of dollars to shut the contract down. I'm sure Phil can talk a little more to you about the realities of Federal contracts. However, I do think we need to engage the COE Operations and Maintenance Branch and try to get them to monitor the area to see if it recovers and to make sure that the project is better planned before the next dreging cycle.

There is not much I can do about it from here, but I have contacted Heather Young of my staff and she will be availble for any meeting that may be set up with the COE.

Rusty

On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 8:46 PM, wrote:
Paul,



Actually I'm not sure. In some areas, like the Laguna, they do seem to come back really fast after disposal of mostly SAND on them. You need to call Rusty Swafford at NMFS (409-766-3688), he's familiar with the way those grasses respond. The grasses have sure done well out there lately haven't they? 



One thing, the agencies aren't aware the grasses now extend all the way down to Alligator Point like you say. I spoke with Dave Hoth at FWS (281-286-8282) today, told him you'd be calling him. He needs to hear about this. 



Phil 



> 
*Sent:* Tuesday, December 13, 2011 3:14 PM
*Subject:* RE: West Bay Marsh
I just hung up with the Corp and they told me that studies have been done and they are trying to put a thin layer of silt down in the dormant season with the idea that it will help the grass. What I saw was a lot more than a thin layer. They are going to look on Thursday, not soon enough for me. 



Do you buy in to this concept?



*From:* 
*Sent:* Tuesday, December 13, 2011 3:01 PM
*To:* *Subject:* Re: West Bay Marsh



Also call Rusty Swafford or Heather Young at NMFS 409-766-3699.



David Hoth at FWS, 281-286-8282.

.

CCA in Houston.



Seagrasses aren't supposed to be covered up with dredge spoil, we worked too hard to get them to come back!








*To:* <*Sent:* Tuesday, December 13, 2011 2:50 PM
*Subject:* RE: West Bay Marsh

Phil,



That entire shoreline all the way to Aligator Head has grass. The one area right across from Gaidos and us has more grass than anywhere else on that entire shore and they already covered it up. I own property that goes several hundred feet into the bay from the spoil bank that I still pay taxes on that they are dumping dredge on. I was under the impression that they needed permission to do that.



I talked to Donna Anderson yesterday.



*Sent:* Tuesday, December 13, 2011 2:41 PM
*To:* Paul Whiteman
*Subject:* Re: West Bay Marsh



Sure. Exactly where are they now? Are there grass beds much west of Carancahua cut?



They are moving down towards Green's Cut though, where I know they have grass beds. The Corps needs to be made aware that covering seagrasses with dredge spoil is a no-no, they keep forgetting don't they?



The best contact at FWS is David Hoth, 281-286-8282







*Sent:* Monday, December 12, 2011 1:23 PM
*Subject:* West Bay Marsh

Phil,



Not sure if you remember me but we have talked on several occasions regarding property I owned along the ICW down near the Gaidos/Lyons property. I have some questions regarding the current dredging that is taking place along the ICW. Please call me at the number below when you have a few minutes. I am looking for some contacts in the USFWS to try to find out why they are covering the newly formed grass beds along the ICW with dredge spoil.


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## capt. david

the icw needs to be dredge, but dump the mud and silt on land, not into the water. does it take a genius to fiqure that out. this one area produces alot of fish. also there is plans for more dredging to take place along the south shoreline of west bay.


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## WestEndAngler

capt. david said:


> the icw needs to be dredge, but dump the mud and silt on land, not into the water. does it take a genius to fiqure that out. this one area produces alot of fish. also there is plans for more dredging to take place along the south shoreline of west bay.


x2! Poor choice of dredge disposal site!! Why not put it on LAND!

My contact at ACOE was Alicia Ray 409-766-3995


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## Swells

There's nothing to be done about this dredging contract, although the Corps can ask the dredge to kindly pump & dump the spoils in certain places that might be the least damaging.

Forget about disposal on land, as that takes a permit for each site, as well as a lot of bulldozer work and marsh remediation. It can be done like near the port of Houston where spoils are used to elevate land to be used for commercial land, warehouses, and stuff. Bayport currently has such a project underway. Natural? You'd have to mitigate all the swamp grass you cover.

That pretty much leaves using barges to tow the dredge spoils offshore, which would double the costs of channel maintenance or worse - remember that us taxpayers are paying for this one way or another. I don't mean to throw a wet blanket on everyone but there are some very hard realities here, such as that the ICW between Pelican Island and Freeport is a huge towboat highway for barges of nearly 9,000 trips per year.

So there's no good, clean way to do this. Dredging _*always*_ makes the fishermen mad. It does sound like the Corps and GLO, the two lead agencies, need to do another environmental assessment to examine the various options, the qualities of the sediment, and the impacts on the submerged grasses. This is something we should work for - and I don't have all the answers by any means.

But being around the business for a while, you're not going to stop this project without a court injunction and paying possibly even off the contractor. Want to burn a million bucks in Obama money? Here's your chance.

I might take Mont's approach and make the Corps pay for some bay restoration, which is far cheaper and actually gets something done.


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## shallowist

Okay, obviously this post was here to get attention and hopefully get the ball rolling in the right direction. Just to clarify a few things that I have already learned. The Corps has the right to dump where they are currently in the process of dumping the material. The only hope that I expected here was that possibly they would see this valuable area as something that should be preserved. 

I do know that there was a conversation this week with a biologist from the Corps and a good friend of mine, where the biologist stated that the only reason the grass was growing was from previous dumpings creating an environment that would allow the grass to take hold. Though I


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## shallowist

Okay, obviously this post was here to get attention and hopefully get the ball rolling in the right direction. Just to clarify a few things that I have already learned. The Corps has the right to dump where they are currently in the process of dumping the material. The only hope that I expected here was that possibly they would see this valuable area as something that should be preserved. 

I do know that there was a conversation this week with a biologist from the Corps and a good friend of mine, where the biologist stated that the only reason the grass was growing was from previous dumpings creating an environment that would allow the grass to take hold. Though I’m no biologist, I can’t see how the grass could re grow any time in the near future. There is a silt covering across the flats even 200 hundred yards from the area where the dredge pipe had been placed, that ranged from 6 inches to a foot thick. 

There was another comment stating that the only reason the grass was growing at all was from the previous dumpings from the Corps, which they believe created the environment that allowed the grass to grow in the first place. Again, I have to disagree. There has been sporadic grass growth on the North Shore for years, but nothing at all like what has happened in the last 3 to 5 years. If anything helped the sea grass in West Bay, it was hurricane Ike. The extreme flush created by the huge amount of water leaving the bay did an amazing job of flushing the bay bottom. Just my humble opinion, but doesn’t seem likely that a heavy layer of silt will do anything for grass growth. 

I’m thrilled to see the amount of concern and great suggestions from this thread, and look forward to seeing more. Keep the info and support coming.


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## Timalgrath

Wow i have had some great days fishing this area and all i can say is i hope to god it does not get destroyed because in my opinion this is the most beautiful spot in west bay it looks pristine and needs to be preserved.


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## Ex Boat Capt. Carp

Swells, the last time they dredged the ICW they were pumping directly onto land from Greens Cut heading South and from Caracahua heading South on both sides, they had flags put out on the right heading South and on the left heading South they would just move the pipe every so often directly on land. This just seems to me that this is nothing more than the company being lazy and not caring where they put it in an effort to save time moving, therefore making more money in a shorter period of time.
Once the grass has been established in the bay systems I thought that it was automatically considered to be some what a protected area (meaning you can not cover it up in feet of mud unnaturally) . I remember reading something to that effect many years ago ( I might be wrong my memory is not very good after many surgeries). It is just bad business on their part all the way from the corp to the company doing the job, and no one seems to know what exactly is going on in the bay and they both should know. I have seen the Corp. of Engineers mess up many things in my life time for the sake of making something better. I do not know where they get their Engineer Degrees from but in one particular case I know a gentleman personally that paid 35.00 in Jamaica for an Engineer in Training license and he was good to go, he was down there working mediation after a hurricane for the corp and never has taken one engineering class. He is now employed with the FEMA side of things, oh well back to task. They should not be dumping spoils is the bay system it is a natural estuary especially over grass flats I have seen them dump on land more than one time in my 30 plus years fishing the bay so what is the difference this time??


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## Goags

I thought that was how they always dredged the IC. My buds have had a place on one of the Baffin spoils for ~30 yrs and when the dredge comes, discharge pipe is layed across the spoils and the sediment is pumped to the backside. Looks like a ecological waste zone for 2-3 yrs, but the grass has always come back. In fact this is the first yr in a few that it is wadeable again, w/o sinking to your knees. May be a different situation up there in west bay...?


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## toehead

The grass that is growing along the north shoreline is a direct result of Phill 
Glass who was with the FWS out of League City. He trucked a load in from Baffin 10 years ago and planted it in behind the state park . Anybody that fished this area might remember a small fenced in area back there. That area was the first to get this grass and it floated across the bay. I own property along the icw right where the video was shot and the coe does have an easement 1350 feet out into the bay from center of the icw. When I spoke to the coe last week that told me that the contractor was supposed to spread out in a thin layer and if the contractor was not following the specs that they would make them correct it. The COE was down there last Wed but I have not gotten a report on there findings. I will follow up with them tomorrow. The ICW was last dredged in this area 5 years ago and the spoil was intentially pumped onto personal property along the north side of the ICW to raise the level so as to slow the salt water intruision. No spoil was pumped into the bay at that time yet most of the grass on this shoreline has shown up in that timeframe. 3 years ago the area right across from our camp had zero grass and before they covered it up it was one of the best areas along that shoreline.

We will see, but call anybody you know and complain.


----------



## RedfishAssassin

gater said:


> Have you spent the night in the ICW, the skeeters are softball size!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are correct in preventing this from happening in the future. Even if you don't fish West Bay, the fact that this grass is not only growing but flourishing and expanding at a rapid rate shows how much the water quality has improved over the years. As the grass expands it will only get better and your dang right it's important and worth protecting. Thanks for getting with the media, I believe Capt. Trim had a photo shoot scheduled out there today or tomorrow.
> 
> Gater


I think its Trim im going to talk to the daily news with, the reporter called me asking me to meet him there and i think he said Capt. Trim was gonna be there too.


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## shallowist

I have to agree about the source of the grass, the two primary plantings that I remember were Dana Cove, at the State Park and at San Luis Pass, behind the old water treatment station. The State Park is by far the most prolific area of grass growth in West Bay, until what appears to the natural seeding of the North Shore. Other areas of the bay have taken off as well, Maggies and Snake Island have nice smaller grass flats. 

There has always been sporadic grass growth around West Bay, I have seen it in nearly every cove in the bay at one time or another, the difference seems to be it’s ability to take hold and grow for more than one season. From what I can tell, this grass growth is purely the result of stout south and southeast winds blowing grass seedings across the bay from previously planted areas.

I have to say thanks to Captain Trim for taking point on this issue and really putting in a lot of effort to find a remedy. He has a lot of contacts from his many years of fishing, guiding and living here. Thanks, as well, to all on this board and others that have responded, called and made great suggestions. Captain Trim, if I understand correctly, is out today with some people who can help in making this matter much more well known.


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## WestEndAngler

I heard he was taking people out there. Steve thanks for posting all of this. I will be out there all day Thursday and later today. I had calls into ACOE over the weekend once I saw the dredge working.

I'd agree with the North Shoreline flourishing after Ike and the Grass Projects conducted along S. Shoreline are wonderful. That coupled with the geo tubes have allowed these areas to really flourish.

There's a short mention in the GDN Reel Report today and Capt. JK should have a follow up either tomorrow or the next day after he gets all the details from the sources we've passed along to him.


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## Capt. Billy

What time are people heading out there?


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## RedfishAssassin

Heading out to Tiki island to talk to the daily news.


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## FishFinder

I helped out planting that grass behind the Old Water Treatment station...Drove in to wade one day and asked what was going on? Ended up planting plugs of grass all day! It was neat to watch them for the next few years!


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## Waterdawg19

My family has the camp on the north side of the intercoastal, just west of Green's Lake. My uncle spoke with the people dredging and supposably they are going to start pumping on the north side of the intercoastal, in the area around our camp, in @ a week. They pumped here the last time they dredged as well. 

The grass area everyone is talking about is beautiful, and I hope it doesn't get affected by what is already, or will be done.


----------



## WestEndAngler

Waterdawg19 said:


> My family has the camp on the north side of the intercoastal, just west of Green's Lake. My uncle spoke with the people dredging and supposably they are going to start pumping on the north side of the intercoastal, in the area around our camp, in @ a week. They pumped here the last time they dredged as well.
> 
> The grass area everyone is talking about is beautiful, and I hope it doesn't get affected by what is already, or will be done.


They have received approval from land owners to dump there apparently. At least that's the message that was portrayed to me by the ACOE.


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## WestEndAngler

I'll be at HaborWalk around 1:30 PM. If anyone wants to ride I have an open spot on my mud rig.


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## mustfish

Can we get some grass in East bay too? Yeah, I know...not gonna happen. But it would be nice. Maybe some day.


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## RedfishAssassin

Coe is that spot still open on your rig?


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## WestEndAngler

RedfishAssassin said:


> Coe is that spot still open on your rig?


Yes. It's your if you want. It's rigged for duck hunting right now so not as much room to carry 3-4 people so just will be running 2. Send me a PM with your number & we'll link up.


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## Waterdawg19

WestEndAngler said:


> They have received approval from land owners to dump there apparently. At least that's the message that was portrayed to me by the ACOE.


That is correct.


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## RedfishAssassin

Sent you a PM


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## WestEndAngler

Waterdawg19 said:


> That is correct.


I know one of the guys that has an interest in the camp on the N shoreline of the ICW I am assuming some of the material will be placed there in that pocket that has formed? I am not sure though. I know they have to park their boats in the ICW and it has really shoaled in along the banks.

The next big concern will be where is the disposal site chosen for areas West of Greens & East of Carranchua Cut... Then where is the placement for areas near HaborWalk, Jones Lake & Meacoms area. Are they going to stock pile material on the thriving oyster beds that line the north side of west bay & separate the ICW from the Bay? It appeared that way from 13 page report I posted a few pages back...


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## RedfishAssassin

i'll be out at harbor walk at 130, so give me a call and ill find you.


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## Waterdawg19

WestEndAngler said:


> I know one of the guys that has an interest in the camp on the N shoreline of the ICW I am assuming some of the material will be placed there in that pocket that has formed? I am not sure though. I know they have to park their boats in the ICW and it has really shoaled in along the banks.
> 
> The next big concern will be where is the disposal site chosen for areas West of Greens & East of Carranchua Cut... Then where is the placement for areas near HaborWalk, Jones Lake & Meacoms area. Are they going to stock pile material on the thriving oyster beds that line the north side of west bay & separate the ICW from the Bay? It appeared that way from 13 page report I posted a few pages back...


That last part doesn't sound good. Hopefully they will be smart about it. As someone that has grown up on West Bay, doing everything fishing, hunting and shrimping, I would hate to see this have a negative effect on the bay system.


----------



## WestEndAngler

I know that the spoil bank needs to be improved around Greens. After Ike the area lost a good amount of the bank. It's clearly visible heading West down the ICW. However, the issue still remains they need to find an acceptable disposal site in order to maximize the spoil build up ON LAND. All the while minimizing the impact it has on the ecosystem in the bay.

They plan on going to the causeway so what areas are next... Think about it... Meacoms, N Deer Island, Confederates Reef area S. Deer they plan on moving all the way even into Offats.

There will be some new navigation hazards to watch out for in the coming months.


----------



## gater

*Dredging*



Waterdawg19 said:


> That last part doesn't sound good. Hopefully they will be smart about it. As someone that has grown up on West Bay, doing everything fishing, hunting and shrimping, I would hate to see this have a negative effect on the bay system.


The spoil sites for dumping on the upper end of the bay are nothing new. They have been designated for years and have been dumped on before and they are not going to close in Jones Lake. In the past they have dumped on the spoils and while in the Mecoms/Harborwalk area they use the dumping site on the north side of the diversionary canal.
The oysters in these areas (spoils not reefs) that are alive, which I don't think is that many are not fit for human consumption as designated by the TDH.

Gater


----------



## FishFinder

Gater, your talking about the ban just for this year? This years ban had to do more with the areas that were affected by the red tide. WB never had it this year and has always had thriving oysters. I'm not saying there good to eat now! I doubt dumping on them would make it any better.


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## Bigwater

Be careful around that Carrancuha cut. There is 50 year old hazardous waste in deep pits on the other side of the ICW. That spoil could be very harmful. I think a good cancer lawsuit is in order.

Bigwater


----------



## gater

*Fishfinder*



FishFinder said:


> Gater, your talking about the ban just for this year? This years ban had to do more with the areas that were affected by the red tide. WB never had it this year and has always had thriving oysters. I'm not saying there good to eat now! I doubt dumping on them would make it any better.


No, not just for this year and has nothing to do with the red tide. There have always been parts of West Bay that have closed to oystering.

Gater


----------



## JimG

Update: I just talked to Alicia Rae from the COE. What a nice lady, and as a bonus, a native of West Bay. This is her backyard, too! She explained:

She has been performing this job in the southern reaches of the ICW for years, and has found it to be beneficial to the grasses if done properly. The silts they are pumping are very fine, and raise the grade up to several inches. This expands the 
the “sweet spot” for the grasses to grow. (Those of you who’ve been to the grass flats know that the depth that the grass grows is a narrow range). She actually expects the dredging to expand the grass, from prior experience.

Ms. Rae expressed her gratitude to us, the concerned outdoorsmen, and wanted me to pass along the message that the communication lines will remain open and she’s happy to hear from us. She wants us to keep up the vigilance, as we are the eyes and ears “on the ground” as she stated it. 

Congrats to all of you who called/wrote about this. You are the heroes of Galveston Bay, and now everyone know we will defend the area if we feel like it is being threatened.


----------



## JimG

Just got this news release from COE:

Dredging Operation Status Update in West Bay
GALVESTON, Texas (Dec. 21, 2011) - The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers Galveston District is working with federal, state and local partners to minimize any potential impact that the placement of dredge material from the Gulf Intracoastal
Waterway Causeway to Bastrop dredging project may cause to seagrass beds located in Placement Area 62 and 63.

"We appreciate the local community's commitment to raising concerns about this project and for following up with us
regarding the protection of our ecosystem," said District Commander Col. Christopher Sallese. "Seagrass provides many
essential functions that keeps our bays healthy and reduces erosion, which is why we are working with our partners and
environmental experts to mitigate any permanent damage to this essential habitat."

The placement plan is in accordance with federal guidance that authorizes the use of PA62 and PA63 in order to prevent
further land erosion of these placement areas.
"If this narrow strip of land is not periodically nourished it will disappear, the area will become deeper and conditions that
allow seagrass to exist will also disappear," said Rob Hauch, a physical scientist in the Galveston District. "The GIWW will
lose the protection of the land, making vessels using the channel vulnerable to wave action and exposing the opposite
bank resulting in erosion of the marshes along the mainland."

Hauch points to an area further west in the vicinity of Halls Lake as an example of the type of erosion that could be
expected if the bank is not replenished with dredged material and notes that staff is examining all aspects of this project to
balance dredging needs with environmental concerns.

"We are working with our partners to manage resources and dredging activities in a sustainable manner, one in which
leaves behind the smallest footprint," said Alicia Rea, project operations manager with USACE Galveston District. "The
seagrass is currently in a dormant phase and we expect this placement to minimally disrupt the habitat."

The pumping of dredged material on PA63 will continue for approximately one week, then will be relocated to PA62.

"We will continue to seek ways in which we can reduce, mitigate or eliminate negative impacts with each project we
undertake while being good stewards of the taxpayers' dollars," said Rea. "I will remain in close contact with partners and
community members throughout this process to make certain we provide the most current information regarding the
progression of this dredging operation."
For more information about this project, call the Public Affairs Office at 409-766-3005 or visit www.swg.usace.army.mil.
Find us on Facebook, www.facebook.com/GalvestonDistrict or follow us on Twitter, www.twitter.com/USACEgalveston.


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## Ex Boat Capt. Carp

Ya pump onto the land that is there!!, we are not talking inches here we are talking you will not be able to wade that area again!! C'mon as of yesterday they are working off of stuff from many many many years ago. What a load of garbage, the only way they can control inches of FINE discharge is to have that on a automatic swivel which it is not. This is just a load of bologna, like I have stated before I have seen the corp mess up more things than not. Things will get turned around today and they will start pumping onto land and not onto the grass flats, they are grass flats not grass deeps already, nothing has changed in depth from what is now Riley's Island all the way down past Crancahua cut for many moons. Ike did change a couple things, Ike did carry out some mud and made the bottom harder in a few places and now a person can wade and in a couple places put more mud where there was none. It is called mother nature for a reason and every time the corp tries to help good ole mother nature they totally screw it up. That last project I saw them mess up was an oxbow on a river that cost 14 mil. this place had water and fish and ducks in the winter. Now it is a dry sand bar, the person in charge told me they would replicate mother nature and flood it when needed and it would hold water better than ever. The pumps they used were bought in Germany and it took them almost a year to figure out how to run them, I guess no one told them about the pumps, then in the end they did not pump enough water anywho!! I asked him why not just leave it alone?, he could not answer me, to this day it is a barren place that holds no water and zero wildlife!! Jsut a typical day in the life of the COE!! If they are continued to dump all they way down to Harbor Walk on the bay side that will just ruin the fishing for a long long time, Thank you COE I was really sick of seeing crabs, rays, Flounder, schools of Redfish, Trout, birds, and the occasional Alligator gar patrolling the area!!!!!


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## gater

*Dredging*

Thanks Jim, thats good news, and thanks to all that made the calls and sent emails. We accomplished one thing and that was getting the right people involved. Thanks to all the agencies that took the time to look into this issue. I know everyone I spoke to was very proffesional and if they did not know the answer they directed me to someone who would.

Now that the right people are aware lets hope they keep a close eye on the project until it's complete and any damage that is done is on a small scale.

Gater


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## toehead

The area called PA 63 is from Carancuhua Cut going Westward. The COE mentions that they will relocate to PA 62 which is from the cut eastward per the attached map. I do not think they know that the grass beds extend from the cut westward because in there own report they talk about the adverse effects of pumping all of the dredge onto the beds. I have attached a report by the COE talking about the adverse effects of any dredge pumped onto the grass beds and the benefits of pumping the dredge onto the nothside of the ICW. The entire report from the corp is is also attached. I hope the COE report mean't to say they would relocate to PA 62 A which is the area north of the ICW from Greens Lake to Carancuhua. I copied and attached the report and two pages from the report showing the location of PA 62 and the paragraph about adverse effects of pumping all of the dredge onto the beds as they are doing currently in PA 63.


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## CaptDocHoliday

Why wouldn't they try to run their pipes over the grass and pump into the deeper water beyond the grass beds? Wouldn't that help to expand the flat without hurting the existing grass?

Any option for a law suit once the dredging is over and the grass doesn't recover like they are implying?


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## toehead

Tried to upload some PDF's but you can find the information in this link.


www.swg.usace.army.mil/pe-p/GIWW_BU_at_Greens_Lake_EA.pdf


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## Ex Boat Capt. Carp

In that report it shows the Proposed Beneficial site, That Is Where all this stuff should be going it should not be going anywhere out in the bay on the bay shore!! I think someone can not read a map!!??? That is the same place the last time they dredged the ICW that they pumped in to, that and directly onto the islands on the other side not into the bay side where the grass beds are!!???


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## JimD

*Got this from Art*

I can provide the technical explanation why this is occurring, but the short answer is that the *project has gone through the National Environmental Protection Act (NEPA) process requirement*. And during the dredging activities TPWD contacted the Corps project manager (PM) and notified the PM that seagrass had established along the south side of the GIWW disposal islands in West Bay and that the current placement of dredge material was being placed on seagrass. The discharge points were not relocated to avoid the existing seagrass. 

Art Morris
Fishery Outreach Specialist
Corpus Christi Field Station

(361) 825-3356


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## moganman

I dont believe anything they are saying. Its not that hard to read a map. Just an excuse and defense on them screwing things up


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## Ex Boat Capt. Carp

Good afternoon Mr. 

Thank you for your recent comment. We are currently working with our partner agencies to ensure minimal impact to the seagrass habitat (which is currently in a dormant phase) during the placement of dredged material in the authorized placement locations.

We will continue to monitor this operation and keep the community informed of any changes. Thank you in advance for your time.
This just tells me they have no clue as to what is going on out there nor do they really care. I sent her another one back and used examples of their own report


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## moganman

Ex Boat Capt. Carp said:


> Good afternoon Mr.
> 
> Thank you for your recent comment. We are currently working with our partner agencies to ensure minimal impact to the seagrass habitat (which is currently in a dormant phase) during the placement of dredged material in the authorized placement locations.
> 
> We will continue to monitor this operation and keep the community informed of any changes. Thank you in advance for your time.
> This just tells me they have no clue as to what is going on out there nor do they really care. I sent her another one back and used examples of their own report


The words people choose to use. "MINIMAL IMPACT"? What exactly does that mean/ Minimal on their part or the environment? Sometimes people do things where their minimal damage is devastation or catastrophe...


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## MsAddicted

Well as a follow up to my email to TPWD game wardens, the email was forwarded from Austin to our local office. I just got off the phone with the supervising Captain at the office next to Serious Tackle in the strip mall. He called me to update me and speak with me personally, I had included my name, address and phone in the email that I sent. He was very concerned and will be sending the game warden out there to take a look. Of course he said he cant promise anything but he clarified with me that they are dumping not along the ICW but yes, actually in west bay, that seemed to make a big impact with him. Interestingly, what with all the action taken so far, I found it curious that it seemed the local TPWD office hadn't yet been informed of where the dredge material was going. 

We shall see. I am very pleased to see all the action on this when speed is of the essence!


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## RedfishAssassin

Me and Coe (west end angler) went out earlier to check it out first hand....its bad. The oyster reef is completely covered in about 6" of muck. He's got pictures from earlier, and video.


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## WestEndAngler

Pics have been uploaded over on my site there's 20mb worth 53 photos and video. I'll put a link to the zip file up or you can check out fishwestend


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## Ex Boat Capt. Carp

Wow it looks like death for the grass and anything else in the area to me!!!! I am so glad that TPWD is on top of this and I also have shot off a couple e-mails. WOW!!!! I just can not believe they are knowingly doing this to our bayshore!!!!!!! This is very much like something the COE would be a part of. (Hey you guys go out there and dredge and do not worry where you put the stuff!!!)


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## WestEndAngler

http://www.fishwestend.com/photos-dredge.zip

Above is the link to all the photos. I'm putting together the videos real quick no editing and tossing it on YouTube.


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## Ex Boat Capt. Carp

Saw the video and that sure does not look like the discharge tube is moving back and forth and back and forth spreading JUST a fine layer of silt over the grass flats!!??? Cross that place off the list to go fish for a couple years!!! Merry Christmas to the COE and the dredge company killing that spot!!!


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## WestEndAngler




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## capt mullet

I cant believe that no one has said anything about Ms Alicia Rae's comments. The statement she made shows that she is grossly incompetent or doesnt mind just telling lies to the public. Why would anyone in her position make such an idiotic comment that the 2-3 ft of spoil dredge that is being placed on top of the seagrasses will help. It doesnt take a brain surgeon to see this is not 2 inches of silt on the beds like she claims is going on by her comments. She may be a nice lady but ignorant statements saying that this is going to help is outrageous and just plain unbelievable. And it just shows the ongoing incompetence of the COE. Remember that this is the organization that planned and built the levees in New Orleans. It looks like they are going to screw this one up also. This lady should be terminated inmmediately for her absolute ignorance and incompetence of what reality is as opposed to fiction. What a joke her comments are. Unbelievable!!!!!


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## Wycoff

I was down there today (that was me in the Beavertail skiff, WestEnd Angler). What a mess. I've written and called all my congressman.


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## JimG

Horrible! Don't we have conservation organizations that we all belong to that should have seen this coming? Wasn't the very detailed disposal map published MONTHS ago? Did no one see it?

I'm not mudslinging here, but what kind of effect would we have had if we had known about this in April? Don't those organizations have people that liaison with the COE and know of their schedules and plans? I for one would have screamed at the top of my lungs to every agency I could reach. This is just one little, magical spot. We could have changed this...

I am just heartbroken.


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## gater

*JimG*



JimG said:


> Horrible! Don't we have conservation organizations that we all belong to that should have seen this coming? Wasn't the very detailed disposal map published MONTHS ago? Did no one see it?
> 
> I'm not mudslinging here, but what kind of effect would we have had if we had known about this in April? Don't those organizations have people that liaison with the COE and know of their schedules and plans? I for one would have screamed at the top of my lungs to every agency I could reach. This is just one little, magical spot. We could have changed this...
> 
> I am just heartbroken.


No those organizations don't have liasons with the Corp. The information is available to the public. Since there is no enviromental studies not sure if public comment is required. The disposal maps were published many ,many years ago, they don't change but it's obvious they need to look at the way these things are done in the future.

Gater


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## WestEndAngler

In Nov. 2010 is when we first heard of this project. Somehow it was never followed up on...

http://www.fishwestend.com/forum/showthread.php/8972-North-Shorline-Nasty-Rumor!!-!!

A PDF posted in the above link shows early mentions of the work I found back in 2010...

http://www.swg.usace.army.mil/pe-p/PRP/GIWW_HIBraz Realignments approved PRP.pdf


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## WestEndAngler

Wycoff said:


> I was down there today (that was me in the Beavertail skiff, WestEnd Angler). What a mess. I've written and called all my congressman.


I was talking to a few people later that day wondering who else runs a Beavertail... I know 3 of the guys over there so figured you were someone I knew. Nice to meet you yesterday as well.

I actually had to jump the dredge pipe going through Carranchua Cut another advantage of the Surface Drive engine & a flat bottom. They had not cleared the pipe past that cut when I came through and when we saw you I noticed it had been moved finally.

No markings or lights on any of the floating drums near the shore of the ICW. They do have lighted pipe floating down by the dredge itself.


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## GJD

*Hold the COE accountable*

These folks need to contact the Texas coastal program and ask about the federal consistency determination for this dredging project. The COE Galveston District should have produced a CD and requested concurrence from the Texas coastal program. If they are performing the activity in a manner that is not in conformance with the CD they have an actionable avenue through NOAA to make the COE fix this mess. You need to check out the NOAA federal consistency web site http://coastalmanagement.noaa.gov/consistency/resources.html and/or contact the Texas contacts, Ms. Sheri Land at the TGLO, [email protected] or Ms Kate Zultner, [email protected].


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## WestEndAngler

GJD said:


> These folks need to contact the Texas coastal program and ask about the federal consistency determination for this dredging project. The COE Galveston District should have produced a CD and requested concurrence from the Texas coastal program. If they are performing the activity in a manner that is not in conformance with the CD they have an actionable avenue through NOAA to make the COE fix this mess. You need to check out the NOAA federal consistency web site http://coastalmanagement.noaa.gov/consistency/resources.html and/or contact the Texas contacts, Ms. Sheri Land at the TGLO, [email protected] or Ms Kate Zultner, [email protected].


Sent an e-mail with the photos of the covered shell reef & a short paragraph voicing my concerns. Thanks for the information.


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## Tombo

Any feedback from emails?


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## SArnold

Good morning,

I am the public affairs officer for the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers Galveston District. I have been fielding many public and media inquiries regarding the seagrass and oyster beds and am working with our project manager and scientists to closely monitor this dredging operation. I am currently gathering additional information to provide you with an update and certainly welcome your questions. Many staff members are out of the office due to the holiday however, I will work diligently to provide you with timely and accurate responses to your concerns.

Please contact me directly with any questions at [email protected]. I sincerely appreciate any feedback you have and thank you in advance for your time.

Sandra Arnold, APR+M
Chief, Public Affairs
U.S. Army Corps of Engineers Galveston District


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## Ex Boat Capt. Carp

This is the latest I recieved!! This is what this same person sent me!!
Thank you for your follow up response. Our scientists and project managers are monitoring the situation and appreciate the community's input. As soon as we have an update, I will provide this to the public. 

I've attached the news release that details the dredging operation explaining the purpose and scope of this project. The dredged material is being placed in an authorized designated placement area. Placement Area 63, built by the Corps, provides a perfect habitat for the seagrass to flourish. The plantings you are referring to were not done on the placement area but have migrated to this area.

Again, we're working to reduce any negative impact this dredging operation may cause on the seagrass beds located within the placement area.


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## Ex Boat Capt. Carp

PS: I did not mention anything about plantings, I told her to gather the troops cause I would expect the corp to re plant the area they are now destroying. I have a sneaky suspicion that this person has no clue nor cares what is going on out there. She is right about one thing though the grass has migrated it has begun to grow up and down the whole bay shore. I guess in their mind if it was not planted they can go ahead and smother it and nothing is lost and if so no biggy!! I also know for a fact that they are working off of outdated material yet they refuse to even get to that point but if they have that piece of paper in their hands then it is all o-k and good to go!!!


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## FlyFish

Here is a copy of my email correspondence with the COE on this issue - I will post the "detailed response" when I get it.

Good morning Mr. Blyth,

Thank you for taking the time to submit this inquiry. I will forward these questions to our project manager and ask that she provide you with a detailed response.

Please let me know if you have any questions or additional concerns.

Sincerely,

Sandra Arnold, APR+M
Chief, Public Affairs
U.S. Army Corps of Engineers Galveston District
Office: (409) 766-3005
Blackberry: (409) 502-9150
Web: http://www.swg.usace.army.mil
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/GalvestonDistrict
DVIDS: http://www.dvidshub.net/units/USACE-GD
Twitter: http://twitter.com/usacegalveston

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 11:17 PM
To: Public Affairs, Galveston District Corps of Engineers
Subject: Current Dredging Operations in West Galveston Bay

Hello

I am writing to you on behalf of Texas Flyfishers of Houston, a Houston based non-profit organization associated with the Federation of Fly Fishers (www.texasflyfishers.org) and also as a concerned individual and Houston area resident. I have been following the progress of the dredging operations currently ongoing in the ICWW on the north side of West Galveston Bay with great concern. I am sure you have been bombarded with emails over the last few days asking for information on why the dredging material is being dumped where and how it is, however hopefully you will have time to reply to my questions and concerns.

I have been reading the publicly available Environmental Assessment done for the proposed new Beneficial Use of Dredged Material zones on the north side of the ICWW published by the COE in February 2007. In this document you propose developing a new material dumping zone (PA-62A) on the north side of the ICWW with the purpose of restoring and maintaining the marshland. In this report you state: "The no action alternative is continued use of the existing emergent unconfined PA No. 62 (Figure 2). This alternative remains an available option; however, use of this alternative would result in continued discharge of dredged material into West Bay. Submerged aquatic vegetation (SAV) is colonizing the bay margin along this PA; however, continued use of PA 62 will occasionally be necessary to prevent the land from disappearing due to erosion. If all of the dredged material from the adjacent reach of channel was to be discharged into this area, as is the historical and current practice, adverse impacts to the SAV would not be minimized. More importantly, beneficial uses of the dredged material described in this EA would not be realized. The intrusion of saline water into the marshes would continue unabated unless action is taken to impede it. Implementation of other suitable measures would not be as cost-effective as the preferred alternative." My first question therefore is why, when you have publicly stated that using the new proposed dumping zone would be better on all counts, has the COE made the decision to continue using the existing dumping zones (PA-62 and PA-63) as stated in your December 21st News Release (No 121103) rather than the new beneficial use zone PA-62A? According to the report the COE has been aware of the newly developing seagrass beds on the existing PA-62 and PA-63 locations since the EA was conducted and is also aware that the use of these locations does not minimize the impact to the grasses, as is a stated aim of the Corps' activities.

From what I can gather the use of the PA-62 and PA-63 locations has been approved since the Final Environmental Statement (EIS) for Maintenance Dredging, Gulf Intracoastal Waterway, Texas Section -- Main Channel and Tributary Channels (USACE, 1975). I would like to know how often you are obligated to repeat the EIS for these areas to allow for changing conditions and when the last one was performed? Please can you point me towards the documents for any EIS conducted on these areas?

Lastly I would also like to know where I can find the COE's studies of the effects of dredged material type and thickness on seagrass beds and what thickness of dredged material the COE considers the absolute safe maximum to ensure survival of the seagrass, even during the dormant period? I am sure that you are currently aware that the thickness of dredged material placed on the current PA-63 location is so deep that it is causing considerable doubt amongst local residents that any of the seagrass and oyster beds will survive at all. Therefore I would also like to know if a COE inspector has personally been out to the current dredge dumping location, has measured the sediment level over the complete zone and has pronounced it to be within the COE's benchmarked limits for seagrass survival? If not, when will this occur and if these limits are exceed then what plans does the COE have in place to restore the seagrass beds to acceptable conditions?

I look forward to your reply
Sincerely


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## WestEndAngler

Where is the sea grass in this photo?!










Oh, that's right, they covered the oyster beds first before they moved onto the sea grass!

I will post GPS coordinates later of the effected area. The area now resembles a Louisiana mud flat!


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## WestEndAngler

Coe, we've been working on this all week and have talked to multiple agencies about it. You've probably seen the Corps' response to this at this point:

http://www.swg.usace.army.mil/items... - USACE Galveston District PA63 Seagrass.pdf

We are evaluating their response and trying to determine if their efforts to re-nourish the island justify the significant impacts to seagrasses in the area. I think it is fair to say that all the natural resource agencies, including Texas Parks & Wildlife, U.S. Fish and Wildlife, and National Marine Fisheries Service are trying to determine what the ultimate impacts will be here and whether the Corps should pursue an alternate method of disposal.

We are prepared to file a lawsuit to stop this if necessary, but we are still evaluating the situation and the Corps response. I will keep you posted.

Bob Stokes
President
Galveston Bay Foundation
17330 Highway 3
Webster, TX 77598
281.332.3381 x211
www.galvbay.org
bstokes(at)galvbay.org


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## trout250

they done very much the same thing at sargent yrs back, instead of pumping on the spoil bank area they pumped over into bay and covered some of the best live oyster reefs there was.

Good luck with getting it stopped


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## Ex Boat Capt. Carp

I fired off another e-mail asking since that was not planted grass in their mind did that make it alright to cover it up in tons of mud. I can not wait to hear or I mean read what they send me back!!! I also stated that the grass extends all the way to Greens Cut and a few sparse places continuing North on the bay shore of what is now call Riley's Island. I have 2 dear friends that their ashes are or were scattered out there I sure hope they headed South for the Winter!!!!


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## SArnold

*Dredging operation at West Bay relocates to PA62*

​*GALVESTON, Texas (Dec. 23, 2011)*


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## Ex Boat Capt. Carp

I think that means on the mainland side of the ICW,??? where they should have been running the sludge anyway!!! Now I hope they post up and reply with what they are going to do about the oysters, and grass they Killed!!!


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## Paul Marx

If I remember from and earlier post PA62 is the spoil bank between Karankwa cut and Green's . They where supposed to build 2 levees running paralel to the ICW on top of the spoils that are there now. That spoil is one of the widest areas of dirt from Freeport to the causeway so hopefully the sludge can be contained .


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## Ex Boat Capt. Carp

Great!!!! they have used that also in the past with very minimal run off. Great news, I am very sadden that they did not do this from the beginning. Part of that map showed the water also didn't it?? I hope they just do not move that pipe down the bayshore in the water and continue to pump into West Bay. That place has grass down that whole shoreline!!! Please keep informed and let everyone know if something of news or issues arise. Thanks to everyone that voiced an opinion and made phone calls and sent e-mails and did what they could do. Merry Christmas to everyone and a Happy New Year!!!


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## tedvega

I agree it is terrible, help the Gilchrist Community Association Keep Rollover Pass open, it is good for Rollover and East Bay. Please check our website on how you can help. Thanks Ted www.rolloverpasstexas.com


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## SArnold

http://www.dvidshub.net/news/81729/dredging-operation-west-bay-relocates-pa62


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## toehead

PA 62 includes both the spoil island and out into the bay included the grass flats. The COE has an easment that goes 1350' feet from the center of the ICW out into the bay. The area north of the ICW is called PA 62A. The release from the corps looks like is says they are dumping the spoils onto PA 62 and hope to avoid any runoff into the bay. 

Lets hope they monitor this a little closer.


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## Capt. Blood

Mike Gunning wrote a pretty comprehensive update in the Galveston News this morning. These federal agencies all should be held accountable .....and all they seem to do is make excuses. More of our Tax Dollars at work!

You federal guys should all be fired for this, just like the idiots at NMFS for their mis-use and abuse of the current fisheries BS.

http://galvestondailynews.com/story/281758


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## Ex Boat Capt. Carp

With all the law suits coming up from South and North Dakota from the Senators over the floods, I sure hope that they do away with this agency for good. They have a bad habit of messing things up more than they fix them!!!


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## let's go

Folks, it's still going on. I was out there today and didn't notice anyone "monitoring" the situation. They have moved on down and are about a third of the way to Greens cut. So at this point they've managed to wipe out several miles of grass. This isn't "nourishment", it's a smothering layer of thick silt over a previously healthy grass bed that extended for several miles. This is what was covering the grass approximately 200 yards off the bank where the pipe was spewing the sludge. It was about 6" deep on top of the grass. Sickening.


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## Ex Boat Capt. Carp

Unbelievable!!!!!


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## Ex Boat Capt. Carp

This is their response to me about the Corp having any brains and if brains were a boat they couldn't even float one in the bathtub!!!
I will be more than happy to address any questions you have concerning this issue provided that you keep your comments professional. Resubmit any questions you have for our team to answer and I will work to have them addressed.
I think we are getting the shaft on this one and the corp has ruined one of the better wade/ drift fishing spots in WestBay and they do not care nor will fix what they have done!!!


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## WestEndAngler

http://www.fishwestend.com/forum/sh...y-Foundation-and-the-COE-Dredging-in-West-Bay

Originally posted by "Robalo" as linked above.

All:

I just received this response/update from the GBF. I am not a "tree hugger" but I do believe the GBF is a good conservation-minded group trying to improve the Galveston Bay Complex. I appreciate their efforts and prompt action.

Here's the response:

Jerry, last week, we let the Corps know that we were considering litigation regarding the dredging. They asked us to come in for a meeting and yesterday we had a six hour meeting at the dredge site and back at the office of the Corps. The Colonel was there the whole time, as were a half dozen of his staff members. The Corps has agreed to several things to reduce the impacts to their dredging. They are going to:
1. Immediately do a seagrass survey at placement area ("PA") 62 so they know exactly how much seagrass is there and where it is located specifically. 
2. They will monitor impacts at PA 63 where the dredging has already taken place so we have a formal record of what the long term impacts to the seagrass there are. 
3. Create an inter-agency coordination team to discuss all this dredging ahead of time in the future and also develop a full monitoring plan for what has occurred to date.
4. Change the dredging that has yet to occur in PA 62 to minimize impacts to seagrass. They will do this in a couple ways. First, they are looking at taking up to half the dredge material that is still set to be placed in PA 62 and place it on private property north of the intra-coastal as beneficial use material. Second, for what material still must go in PA 62, they will ensure the dredge material is placed on the upland part of the island and not directly into west bay. They will also move the dredge pipe multiple times to ensure no more than a thin layer will be placed onto any one area. 
5. If the monitoring shows that they have killed any seagrass out there, they will consider mitigation for those impacts. We have not determined what exactly that mitigation will be, but we will stay on it.

I was impressed with the attention they gave this yesterday. They took our (and yours) concerns seriously and have agreed to make some significant changes. Please let me know what you think. I'll keep you posted as we move forward.

Bob Stokes
President
Galveston Bay Foundation

Thanks GBF!!! And thanks to the COE for listening-beats the heck outta Obama-he only listens when he hears money crumple. (sorry I couldn't resist).


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## lunardds

Big thanks to all you guys that pushed for action on this. 

lunar


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## WestEndAngler

USACE Makes Changes to West Bay Dredging Project

Webster, TX - January 10, 2012 - The Galveston Bay Foundation ("GBF") met with officials from the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers Galveston District ("USACE") last week to view and discuss a dredging project near Carancahua Point in West Galveston Bay on the Gulf Intracoastal Waterway. GBF and many local fishermen have been concerned about the dredge material being placed upon seagrasses that have re-established in the area. Seagrass is an important and rare habitat in Galveston Bay, as juvenile shrimp, crabs, and fish all use seagrass beds as nursery areas. Galveston Bay had lost over 90% of its seagrasses since the 1950s, but in recent years, seagrasses have begun to return to the bay.

The USACE justified the dredging project under a study done in the Laguna Madre that showed that long term impacts to seagrass from being covered with a thin layer of dredge material would be minimized if the material was placed in the winter months when the seagrass is photosynthetically inactive. However, because seagrass is so rare in Galveston Bay as compared to the Laguna Madre, GBF asked the USACE to carefully review its plans and make changes to further minimize potential impacts to seagrass.

The USACE used, or was scheduled to use, two permitted placement areas ("PA") in West Bay, PA 63 and PA 62 (please see attached maps of PAs). The USACE has already completed its work in PA 63, but is still scheduled to place a substantial amount of dredge material in PA 62. After GBF representatives visited the site and met with the USACE last week, the USACE has agreed to make the following changes:

1. The USACE will immediately complete a full seagrass survey at PA 62 prior to any new material being placed there and will follow up with a post-dredging survey in PA 63 to establish dredge material thickness and elevations for long term monitoring.

2. The USACE will monitor impacts at PA 63 where the dredging has already taken place to create a formal record of any long term impacts to the seagrass there.

3. The USACE will create an interagency coordination team ("ICT") to discuss the dredging on the Intracoastal Waterway between Sabine Lake and Matagorda Bay ahead of time in the future, and will also develop a full monitoring plan for disposal areas PA 63 and PA 62. The team will evaluate the seagrass surveys and the post dredging conditions and make recommendations on how the USACE should monitor and manage operations in PA 62 and 63.

4. The USACE will attempt to minimize impacts to seagrass from the disposal that has yet to occur in PA 62. First, they will take as much as half the dredge material that is still scheduled to be placed in PA 62 and beneficially use it on private property north of the Intracoastal Waterway. Second, for the material that still must go into PA 62, the USACE will ensure its dredge contractor moves the dredge pipe multiple times to make sure no more than a thin layer will be placed onto any one area.

GBF President, Bob Stokes, stated, "I was impressed with the attention the USACE gave this matter. They took our concerns and the concerns of local fisherman seriously and have agreed to make important changes to the project." In the meantime, the placement areas will continue to be monitored to ensure the minimization of negative impacts to seagrasses in West Galveston Bay.

About Galveston Bay Foundation
The mission of the Galveston Bay Foundation is to preserve, protect, and enhance the natural resources of the Galveston Bay estuarine system and its tributaries for present users and for posterity. The Foundation was incorporated in 1987, and is a non-profit organization under Section 501 (c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code. GBF is located at 17330 Highway 3 in Webster, Texas. For further information, contact GBF at 281-332-3381, or visit the website at www.galvbay.org.

# # #

Dredge Map


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## FLAT FISHY

Let us ALL Thank the people who put efforts into getting this changed. But lets remember that the ICW is an important structure in this part of the world and this will not be the last battle over dredging.
As a kid growing up on that chunk of water I can recall the spoil island three times the wider than it currently is ,as well as Tiki island having 20 houses on it!!!!! Yes I too have seen the grass in those areas and appreciated the regrowth knowing that the measures to clean the bay waters are working since the "dump it" years of the 30's thru the70's


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## fishjunky

*Latest Move*

I was contated by ACE yesterday asking to notify WGB anglers of the newest dredge pipe move. Anyone coming out of Harborwalk, Diversionary Canal, Highlands Bayou or Tiki should take a look at the map on this link.

http://www.dvidshub.net/news/82562/corps-stresses-boating-safety-giww-bastrop-dredge-project

fj><)))'>


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## Justin_Time

fishjunky said:


> I was contated by ACE yesterday asking to notify WGB anglers of the newest dredge pipe move. Anyone coming out of Harborwalk, Diversionary Canal, Highlands Bayou or Tiki should take a look at the map on this link.
> 
> http://www.dvidshub.net/news/82562/corps-stresses-boating-safety-giww-bastrop-dredge-project
> 
> fj><)))'>


I don't see a map?


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## TXXpress

Justin_Time said:


> I don't see a map?


http://www.ccatexas.org/usace-galveston-mariners-advisory/

That would be really ugly in the fog!


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## fishjunky

Regardless of the information that has been publicized on ACE's "cooperative direction", it sure looks like it's business as usual. Went out today to see what 2-3" of "kind of like topdressing your lawn " dredge looks like. Found open pipe disposal and 24+" of dredge material 4-600 yds west of Green's cut in a 3-400 yd radius. Based on what I saw from the 80's that area is dead for many years (save the odd big trout trying to get warm). That's the same area where the recruited grass started and has been home to oysters, redfish, trout, whelks, ray, crabs, seaturtles and other critters we haven't seen like this since the 50's in water that looks more like LLM than WGB.

Guys, it's time to say "enough". Please contact EPA, TNRCC, NFWS, NMF, GBF, CCA, ACE, TP&W, your congressman....anybody! Just don't let this area die without saying "this ain't right"

fj><)))'>


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## WestEndAngler

Unacceptable. E-mail's sent


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## reeltimer

I'm reely starting to believe we need to save the water's from local,state and feds.They make it out like they are saving what's in the water for future generations.I'm ****** as a cowboy in a patch of bullnettles.


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## mchildress

Really sad that north shoreline had really been coming back the last few years with grass. Something I wasn't used to seeing in West-bay the last 30 years. Maybe my grand kids will be as lucky in another 30 yrs. Its really sickening to see two feet of spoil dump on top of what looked like aquarium water and grass just a few months ago.


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## topwatrout

This is outrageous...they're destroying the grass much faster than most of us think they are. I've seen turtles to triple tail in that grass. I'm only 18 and plan to fish that shoreline for many more years to come, not fair at all to have it taken away.


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## Justin_Time

TXXpress said:


> http://www.ccatexas.org/usace-galveston-mariners-advisory/
> 
> That would be really ugly in the fog!


Yes it would! Thanks. I run right through there coming out of HB to hit the ICW.


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## fishjunky

*More pics*

I flew the area where the discharge pipe currently sits on Jan. 4. First pic is what it looked like then. Notice the extent of grass? Second and third pics are what the same location looked like yesterday.

There are 17 pages of posts on this thread alone. How many of you who expressed concern have picked up the phone or sent an email? Guys, if we keep sitting while we complain, nothing is going to change.

fj><)))'>


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## WestEndAngler

I run that same area from harborwalk to chocolate I hit a unmarked / unlit dredge pipe last Saturday on the north side of icw near greens lake. The fog was thick! Lucky for me I jumped it and drive a surface drive motor that can handle hitting objects at speed without damaging the lower unit. A barge passing a 1/2 mi in front of me had pulled the end of the hose out away from the shore. Be very careful navigating this area it's extremely dangerous and poorly marked and lit. Littering the north side of the icw from greens to Carranchua lake are concrete objects I'm assuming holding dredge pipe down. Not marked either.


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## capt. david

you should be able to call the dredge on ch 16. not sure of their main working channel. they will tell you where safe passage side. all pipe should be lit with yellow blinging lights.


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## Fishtexx

What should be and what it really is with dredge operators are 2 very different things. Many, many times I have come across unlit and/or unmarked pipe etc on working and idle operations.. Even if you went one direction, fished a few hours and are returning, caution should be paramount around these guys. Their operation changes constantly and there have been times I could not hail them on the radio. JMO


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## WestEndAngler

I asked Bob if he had seen the photos posted above:

I did and I talked to the Corps about it today. As you know, they cut out one-half of the material that was slated to go into PA 62 by using it beneficially north of the intra-coastal. They also told me today that the contractor pumped material in 100 foot intervals in PA 62 and that approximately 10 discharge locations were used in that area with the pipe being moved once each morning and once each night to thin the material out as much as possible. Do the conditions out there suggest this was accomplished? They are now done with PA 62 so there will be no more material pumped out there. They have moved on to PA 58A which is a confined placement area so there should not be a repeat of these problems. 

Bob Stokes
President
Galveston Bay Foundation


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## Swells

FISHTEXX said:


> What should be and what it really is with dredge operators are 2 very different things. Many, many times I have come across unlit and/or unmarked pipe etc on working and idle operations.. Even if you went one direction, fished a few hours and are returning, caution should be paramount around these guys. Their operation changes constantly and there have been times I could not hail them on the radio. JMO


Yessir dredging is a very rough industry and it'll difficult to even make it work right half the time with all the mechanical failures, and is a very dangerous job too. I wish they marked better too.


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## toehead

*Photo of spoil covering covering the grass flats.*

Google Earth just released updated photos. You can see the dredge in the photos and the spoil covering the grass flats. Now we can monitor this ourselves to see if it comes back. This picture is between Chocolate Bayou and Karankawa .


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## toehead

*Photo of the spoil covering the grass beds.*

Here is the picture, we can monitor it now to see what happend over time.


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## BBCAT

I hope it works out. It looks like a ugly tumor right now.


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## JimG

Anyone been out there lately?


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## Foxtrot704

terrible


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## Spec-Rig.006

I mean ... you're looking at a potential future winter time fishing location. It's not all doom and gloom ... soft mud/grass/shell ... ??? The long run might see some benefit ...


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## WestEndAngler

I was out there Sunday. The area (in places) still resembles a Louisiana mud flat.


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## crw91383

Any plans by COE or GBF to replant grass in the area? My fianc


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## WestEndAngler

I have contacted Bob over at GBF about replanting sea grass this Spring. Hopefully we can get something organized.


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## Won Mo Kasst

Here's what will happen... No grass will grow there this spring, maybe even into the next year. But after that, the grass will come back thicker than ever before. Planting grass in it now will be a wasted effort as no roots will take in such a fine, slurry mixture. 

Sad that it happened, but the game is chess, not checkers.


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## let's go

It won't return until the silt disperses. Prior to Ike there was a layer of silt covering the area and there wasn't any grass up there for many years. Ike removed it and the grass grew in nice and thick. Unless we get some serious tropical activity this summer it'll be a long time before all that junk goes away.


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## Sabine Flounder Pounder

*lost marsh in Bridge City Tx.*

I can relate to your complaint, we lost over a square mile ( 640 acres) of marsh lake to dredge dumping, they even piped it from miles away attached is a Google earth photo from 11 2012. Just makes me sick knowing that 1000s of baby flounder were stocked in the bayou feeding that lake just last spring. attached is the Google photo.


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## Absolut

Is there any update on this? Would be interested in helping out planting grass or anything like that...just PM me and let me know what's up.


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## JimG

Any update on the West Bay grass flats? The latest Google earth pics are from October 2012...

Did the grass come back like this guy said it would?



> Here's what will happen... No grass will grow there this spring, maybe even into the next year. But after that, the grass will come back thicker than ever before. Planting grass in it now will be a wasted effort as no roots will take in such a fine, slurry mixture.


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