# Shooting in Light Box???



## dicklaxt (Jun 2, 2005)

When diffusing external light threw the light box fabric should you disable the flash?

I got it built and did a test shoot using 3-52 watt lamps one from each end and the top with the flash firing too,then I shot one with lights off and flash firing only.The only difference I see in the two is that the backdrop(light blue) discolors with the diffused light.The object looks the same at least to me and I already deleted them.

I think 3-75 watt lamps may work better,whatcha think,or just a 75 on top or vice versa.

I know experiment etc etc etc just checking the water from the experts.

dick


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## pg542 (Oct 9, 2006)

I'm certainly no expert but I tried the 75watt GE Reveal (3) through the diffuser material and I think 100's may have been better. The color rendition was supposed to truer with these bulbs. I still played with the white balance quite a bit and mediocre results. My avatar has a little too much soft blue in it for me. I didn't try any PP with it.... I'd like to try regular bulbs in it and I would start with (3) 75's. Maybe up from there? It could be that my diffuser is material too much,,,?? Oh and I didn't use the flash.


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## Slip (Jul 25, 2006)

I use a light box every now and then on my wood turnings and use no flash with nice results. I use the squirly flourescents but use the bright white (I think 3800 - 4300K) to give off the whitest lights. Using the daylight versions make things bluish and the regular version of the bulbs are much too yellow. They are cooler to use and can get them in different sizes depending on what you want.


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## dicklaxt (Jun 2, 2005)

The fluorescents are the answer to heat build up as well,my holders are only rated for 40m watts and I believe the 100watt fluorescent are equivalent heat loss of 27 watts so it would be the way to go,thanks for the tip on color rendition.

dick


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## dicklaxt (Jun 2, 2005)

I ordered 2 spiral fluorescent Color Brite 100 watt equivalent,23 watts real,Color temp 5000K,CRI 85
and 1 spiral fluorescent Color Brite 60 watt equivalent,13 watts real,Color temp 5000K,CRI 82.

I'll use the 100's at each end and the 60 at the top without the flash and see what happens.

Thanks on the tips.

Should be here in a week to ten days ,I could not find the Color Brite finish locally and plain vanilla was twice the cost of internet findings

dick


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## Formula4Fish (Apr 24, 2007)

I'm following this thread with a great deal of interest.

I've built one of those light box frames, but I haven't picked up the light fixtures or bulbs yet.

I believe I'm going to go with two of these from Harbor Freight:










$9.99 each - 75 Watt Magnetic Base Light - ITEM 90766-4VGA

The question I have for all you folks that have actually used a light box is what focal length lens do you use?

I've got a Canon EOS 50D DSLR, but the only lenses I have so far are
EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS USM and
EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM

Something tells me neither one of them are optimum for shooting in a light box.

Dick


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## dicklaxt (Jun 2, 2005)

Those fixtures will work fine and the lamps are something you will have to experiment with from all indications I'm getting in my research and answers to questions.

The 10- 22wa probably won't be a good lens for this but I think I have read somewhere the 100-400 has been used but don't quote me.

I'm just beginning to learn a bit about Macro and Light Boxes myself.

dick


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## MT Stringer (May 21, 2004)

Dick (F4F), you need a lens that can focus fairly close. I've used a Tamron 28-75 f/2.8.
I don't know if the 100-400 will allow you to focus that close or not. Just try it and see. Extension tubes would be a plus. You could get closer then.

EXIF Info:
Camera Model: Canon EOS DIGITAL REBEL XT
Camera serial number: 1720709615
Firmware: Firmware 1.0.3
Owner: unknown
Date/Time: 2007:01:28 18:19:04
Shutter speed: 1/20 sec
Aperture: 8
Exposure mode: Av
Flash: Off
Metering mode: Evaluative
Drive mode: Single frame shooting
ISO: 100
Lens: 50mm
Focal length: 50mm
AF mode: Manual Focus


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## Formula4Fish (Apr 24, 2007)

No MT Stringer... the 100-400mm won't focus closer than 6 feet.

The 10-22mm lens closest focus is 10 inches, but I think it will be too wide of an angle. If I get far enough from the object to focus on it, it looks pretty small in the viewfinder.

I'm waiting on a EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM that I think will do the trick. Closest focus on it is 18 inches and it has the focal length range to frame most any object the way you want it.

Unfortunately, everyone is out of stock on it right now.

A friend of mine has one, and I'm sure he'll let me experiment with it while I'm waiting.


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## MT Stringer (May 21, 2004)

F4F, I did a quick test to check the possibility of using the 100-400L lens for close up photography.
Here are several pics using the 1D MK III, 100-400 lens with a 36mm Kenko extension tube attached. By attaching one or both of the other tubes in the set, you could get closer.

These pics were shot in my bathroom under available light and hand held. No cropping has been done. These are full images from the camera resized for web display.

Here's a link to the Kenko Auto Extension Tubes. I think I bought mine from Hong Kong Supply or something like that.

1) Distance from lens to object was about 12 inches. Focal length was 100mm.









2) Distance to subject still about 12 inches @ 100mm









3)Distance to subject was about three feet @ 170mm


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## dicklaxt (Jun 2, 2005)

Mike I'd say thats pretty da** good,you have a much steadier hand than this old man.Good job:smile:

dick


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## Slip (Jul 25, 2006)

dicklaxt said:


> I ordered 2 spiral fluorescent Color Brite 100 watt equivalent,23 watts real,Color temp 5000K,CRI 85
> and 1 spiral fluorescent Color Brite 60 watt equivalent,13 watts real,Color temp 5000K,CRI 82.
> 
> I'll use the 100's at each end and the 60 at the top without the flash and see what happens.
> ...


You may need to adjust the color balance with the 5000K lamps. I tried some in that range and even in the 4500 and everthing had a blue tint. My closest color balance without adjustment has been around 3800 - 4000. Your new lamps could be different than what I have bought but that is getting into the bluish color ranges from my experience.


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## ballard55 (Jul 14, 2008)

I framed up a light box for copying 35mm prints and selling items on Ebay.

The stand is a copy stand (25 years old) with a couple of mounted light fixtures.

The side light stands are $14 Home Depot. Bulbs are a combination of 6500K daylight and 3800K also from Home Depot. I found the diffuser material to be more important that the light. Diffused 6500K gives a better "white".

The box is built from foam board. I cut holes in it for the diffuser material. The frame is PVC. The foam board is attached with velcro straps, the it can be completely disassembled.

The diffuser material is from Hobby Lobby. It's dry erase poster board. It's pretty heavy and requires bright light, but I like the soft light effect.

Not shown is a front panel with a hole for camera lens if I want to give some front reflection. Front reflected light is much better than using flash. You don't have much camera control with flash.

One of the things I found was to never depend on the camera in "Automatic" mode. For shooting old 35mm photos, when the contrast is already low, "Automatic" settings will wash out all the contrast. This cannot be corrected later with software. You have to preserve the contrast.

I will shoot in "Manual" mode, then start increasing shutter speed and finally arrive at a setting I like.

That's a 4 x 6-inch print in one of the photos. Notice I have a frame so I can shoot many photos without ever refocusing or re-framing.

I let the camera auto-focus, then switch the camera to manual focus. Leave the lens set to autofocus so it will not drift. I will shoot a couple of copies, look at them on the computer, zoom in and check focus before shooting a lot. I can probably shoot over 200 photos in one hour.

I use a Nikon D90 with a 24-120 lens. It will handle anything I can put in my box. Minimum focal length is about 16-18 inches. I've never done any really close photography that would require a macro lens, but it's in my plans. (There's always something else you need!)

I'm going to experiment with some colored diffuser material one day.


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## dicklaxt (Jun 2, 2005)

Thats quite a nice setup Ballard and I appreciate you sharing your efforts in what works for you.

I have been doing considerable research on the subject today and am finding there is a whole lot that needs to be considered. 

1.The color of the backdrop.
2.The Color Temp in Kelvin and varying mixes of light sources
3.The White Balance camera settings
4.The ISO settings
5.Shutter Speed
6.Diffusion Material
7.The use of additional reflective light souce
8.Filters
9.The reflective properties of subject itself

etc etc etc 

Whats all this mean,theres only one answer,,,,,,,,,,, experiment
and record findings.

I'm always jumping into things I don't understand but I'm learning.I'll check back with my findings in about six months.:headknock

dick


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## ballard55 (Jul 14, 2008)

dicklaxt said:


> Thats quite a nice setup Ballard and I appreciate you sharing your efforts in what works for you.
> 
> I have been doing considerable research on the subject today and am finding there is a whole lot that needs to be considered.
> 
> ...


Yes, all those things and many more!

I tried to build my light box with flexibility in mind. It's very easy to change backdrop, diffusers, position of camera and position of lights.

It's perfect for copying photos. That's where my idea started. With glossy prints, the lighting must be soft and diffused.

When I visit relatives, I sometimes take my copy stand with me to copy any old photos and documents they may have. I can copy directly from an album too.

Only six months of experimenting? You work fast!


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## pg542 (Oct 9, 2006)

One other thing I've noticed when shooting very reflective objects;;;Be mindful of the open end (front) of your lightbox as it can sometimes be seen in the reflection and leave a dark spot on the object in the image. I eventually cut a "front" wall to fit my "box", with a hole large enough to shoot through. The dark spot is still there but much less noticeable. Sometimes just using the front (or not) can add or detract from the frontal light "fill" to acheive a desired light level.


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## ballard55 (Jul 14, 2008)

pg542 said:


> One other thing I've noticed when shooting very reflective objects;;;Be mindful of the open end (front) of your lightbox as it can sometimes be seen in the reflection and leave a dark spot on the object in the image. I eventually cut a "front" wall to fit my "box", with a hole large enough to shoot through. The dark spot is still there but much less noticeable. Sometimes just using the front (or not) can add or detract from the frontal light "fill" to acheive a desired light level.


I noticed the dark spot as well.

I made my "front wall" a little wider than the box. I can tilt the bottom out and turn my sidelights toward it to get some soft reflected light from the front.

You can learn a lot about light boxes by practicing with a watch with a flat bezel.


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## dicklaxt (Jun 2, 2005)

AHA!!!!You all probably knew this but I'm tickled to find it.on the 40D there is a shootinbg menu where you can select 5200K when using Fluorescent White lamps and then further select anywhere from 2500K to 10,000K and home in on the exact temp rating of your particular lamp.That will be a good starting point for the White Balance Setting.

I don't know if the off brands have this feature,,,, snicker,snicker

dick


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## Arlon (Feb 8, 2005)

Replying to the original post: 
Don't use the flash! It is orders of magnitude stronger than the side lights when you get that close. If you feel compelled to use the flash, use in manual mode and turn it down to 1/32 power level or there abouts. You want the flash low enough to fill without blasting over the power of the other lights. Your camera wasn't seeing any input from the side lights at all.. Use a tripod, and slow down the exposure and crank up the f-stop for more DOF.

Some of my shots are at LONG shutter speeds with dim lights. I just like they way they look better. Sometimes I just use a small flashlight.

30 second exposure at f32, I also used a 200mm lens so I could gain some distance and DOF.. DOF is pretty good on this one.


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## MT Stringer (May 21, 2004)

*Breakfast of champions!*

Well, sorta. 
I've been looking for this picture and finally found it. I took it a couple of years ago using my light box and table lamps. White poster board for the background/bottom. White sheet covered the light box and the lamps were shining through it from each side.

Mike


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## dicklaxt (Jun 2, 2005)

*Hey Mike S*

When you finished shooting the Light Box pic of the donuts,did you eat them?:doowapsta

dick


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## MT Stringer (May 21, 2004)

Well, yes I did!


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