# The Trinity



## Reel Time (Oct 6, 2009)

Guys, let's discuss the Trinity.
I have a new coworker who believes that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are separate "entities". 
I have always believed in 3 in 1.
Please provide scripture references in the discussion. Looking forward to it!


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## tngbmt (May 30, 2004)

ok, i'll start with 2 quotes, simple and direct.

deut 6:4
Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one

matt 28:19
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit


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## Reel Time (Oct 6, 2009)

Anyone else?
What verses "prove" 3 in 1?


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## Stumpgrinder (Feb 18, 2006)

1 " entity" ,3 manifestations . I just accept it and trust it .


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## fishingcacher (Mar 29, 2008)

The trinity is a hard concept to explain. There is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit but they are one but they are also three. The term Trinity does not appear in scripture. Some things we as humans cannot fully grasp.


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## Bird (May 10, 2005)

Matthew 28:19 "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,"

Jesus says "...in the name" not, in the names of...


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## Reel Time (Oct 6, 2009)

Bird said:


> Matthew 28:19 "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,"
> 
> Jesus says "...in the name" not, in the names of...


Interesting. I never noticed that.


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## Seeker (Jul 6, 2009)

Reel Time, do you know who "Theophilus" is?


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## Seeker (Jul 6, 2009)

Bird said:


> Matthew 28:19 "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,"
> 
> Jesus says "...in the name" not, in the names of...


Bird, would you not agree that in Mathew 28:19, Jesus is not identifying himself as the Father, Son and Holy Spirit? I think he is saying that Christian Baptism identifies a person as one who believes in the Father, in the Son whom the Father sent to die for our sins, and in the Holy Spirit whom the Father and the Son sent to dwell in our hearts. This is know as "The Great Commission".


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## Reel Time (Oct 6, 2009)

Seeker said:


> Reel Time, do you know who "Theophilus" is?


Yes. How does that help? I am not getting the connection.


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## Seeker (Jul 6, 2009)

Reel Time said:


> Yes. How does that help? I am not getting the connection.


He was the Sixth Bishop of Antioch, Syria. He was the first person known to have used the word "Trinity" in his work, Refutation of Autolycus. (A. D. 168)

Have you ever heard of his work?


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## Seeker (Jul 6, 2009)

If you are looking for scripture, go no farther than:

John 10: 22 - 42 

Sola Fide


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## Bird (May 10, 2005)

Seeker said:


> Bird, would you not agree that in Mathew 28:19, Jesus is not identifying himself as the Father, Son and Holy Spirit? I think he is saying that Christian Baptism identifies a person as one who believes in the Father, in the Son whom the Father sent to die for our sins, and in the Holy Spirit whom the Father and the Son sent to dwell in our hearts. This is know as "The Great Commission".


Yes I agree 100% with what you are saying. However, with regards to the Trinity, nowhere in the bible is Trinity ever mentioned specifically. By using scripture references, we, or more specifically people way more knowledgeable than me, have tried to understand one of God's mysteries. The concept is difficult to understand even with thorough study of scripture. I find that faith helps a lot 

The Trinity is discussed quite a bit in the Catechism of the Catholic Church book as well as books on the Triune God. Without making an incredibly long post, I wanted to simply post a scripture with a clue to the Trinity as asked by the OP

Peace be with you brothers


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## Reel Time (Oct 6, 2009)

Thanks for all who contributed to this thread.
The Trinity is very difficult to understand and is even harder to find scripture to back it up. On the other hand, it is difficult to dispute. Like others have said here I find that faith is necessary to handle the concept. 
Seeker, I did some more research on Theophilus and his writings are interesting. His most interesting is his Apology to Autolycus (apology as in apologetics, defending the faith).


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## Seeker (Jul 6, 2009)

Yes sir, people spend many hours studying what he has presented. One can not just pull this stuff out of the air without some kind of influence or guidance.

Understanding the "Trinity" is not easy. My point with bringing up Theophilus was to help one understand that it is a belief made up by Christians in the 4th century.

Back to the "misunderstanding of the term / word "Trinity". No, it doesn't exist as a word in the bible but the "Trinity" is nevertheless a bible base belief. The word "incarnation" does not appear in the bible either, but Christians use it as a one-word summary of our belief that Jesus was God in the flesh.

The word "Trinity" was used to explain the eternal relationship between the Father, the son, and the Holy Spirit.

Early Christians constantly defended their beliefs about the "Trinity" long before A. D. 300. Here are a few examples if you so desire to go read for yourself.

Clement (Who by the way was the third bishop of Rome) A.D. 96 or before (pay special attention to his Letter to the Corinthians) absolutely astonishing work by the way...

The teachings of the 12 Apostles the "Didache" A.D. 90-100 (Catholics will really enjoy this little research.. absolutely astonishing information that is a life changer for sure.. open the eyes of my heart Lord.. Please.. go see for yourself.

Ignatius (Bishop of Antioch) A.D. 90'ish maybe? There is an eye opener..

Justin Martyr, A.D. 155 (Absolutely was a great Christian writer)

As mentioned, Theophilus A. D. 168 (The sixth bishop of Antioch)

Athenagoras, A. D. 177 Theologian

Irenaeus, A. D. 180 (bishop of Lyons)

Tertullian, A. D. 197 (early church leader)

Gregory Thaumaturgus, A. D. 264 (another great church leader) Go do a little research on Syriac. Understand what was believed back when Genghis Khan stomped around. It will blow your mind. 

Anyway, sorry to be so long winded, but, I haven't even began to start on the "Trinity" yet. Oh, and then we can start pulling scriptures for supporting the belief of the "Trinity"


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## Reel Time (Oct 6, 2009)

Seeker said:


> Yes sir, people spend many hours studying what he has presented. One can not just pull this stuff out of the air without some kind of influence or guidance.
> 
> Understanding the "Trinity" is not easy. My point with bringing up Theophilus was to help one understand that it is a belief made up by Christians in the 4th century.
> 
> ...


Doggone it Seeker! That's a lot of homework! Little by little I'll look them up but I really need scriptures for supporting the Trinity.
Have you changed your career since I saw you last and gone to Seminary?
Thanks for the history!


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## Seeker (Jul 6, 2009)

Reel Time said:


> Doggone it Seeker! That's a lot of homework! Little by little I'll look them up but I really need scriptures for supporting the Trinity.
> Have you changed your career since I saw you last and gone to Seminary?
> Thanks for the history!


No sir. I love Jesus. I am not into evangelism.. which is what America does best. Once again as I have stated many times before on this board. It's not religion.. It's personal..

Oh yes.. bible scriptures.. humm.. which one to choose.. oh my.. there are over 60 Bible passages (in my bible that I study from) that mention the three "Persons" together.

Reel Time, this is going to take a while. Let me put them all down for you.. Just give me some time. I have to go dust off my notes and see what I can come up with.

The one I love the most is Mathew 3:16. 
"And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the "Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lightning upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, "This is my beloved Son, in which I am well pleased."

To have found favor from the Father blows my mind. To hear hat the Apostles had to say about him blows my mind as well.


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## tngbmt (May 30, 2004)

we have to establish with scripture above other writings

1. the 'one god' criteria throughout scripture
2. God the Father, the creator
3. Jesus is God 
4. the Holy Spirit is God
5. God is the alpha & omega
6. the truth of our gospel does not change with time, translation or philosophy


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## Reel Time (Oct 6, 2009)

Seeker said:


> No sir. I love Jesus. I am not into evangelism.. which is what America does best. Once again as I have stated many times before on this board. It's not religion.. It's personal..
> 
> Oh yes.. bible scriptures.. humm.. which one to choose.. oh my.. there are over 60 Bible passages (in my bible that I study from) that mention the three "Persons" together.
> 
> ...


This is the one my co-worker is using to say they are (He is) three separate entities.
The only answer I can really think of to explain to her is - the three phases of water. The only problem I see with that is - those are phases of the same chemical compound that can not co-exist as the same time. God is omnipresent and is three dimensional. We live in a 2 dimensional world.
We as humans are physical, mental, and spiritual. These are separate but still in one being. God is our Father, God came to earth in the form of a man (Jesus), Jesus left us a Helper (the Holy Spirit) who lives in believer's hearts (soul). I believe there is one God who can be present in three forms in a multitude a places. Mind-boggling.


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## DCAVA (Aug 5, 2013)

The trinity is God, his son Jesus and the Holy Spirit working in omnipotence. It is by faith that we believe in the trinity...


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## Seeker (Jul 6, 2009)

Reel Time said:


> This is the one my co-worker is using to say they are (He is) three separate entities.
> The only answer I can really think of to explain to her is - the three phases of water. The only problem I see with that is - those are phases of the same chemical compound that can not co-exist as the same time. God is omnipresent and is three dimensional. We live in a 2 dimensional world.
> We as humans are physical, mental, and spiritual. These are separate but still in one being. God is our Father, God came to earth in the form of a man (Jesus), Jesus left us a Helper (the Holy Spirit) who lives in believer's hearts (soul). I believe there is one God who can be present in three forms in a multitude a places. Mind-boggling.


This is so true. Now, "The Father" (Head of the God figure) is the Alpha and Omega. He always is and always will be. To see the Son, Jesus in the same manor is mind boggling to mortal humans. The Spirit was indeed put in place by The God head to literally do his specialized work.

One must understand, human spirits do not seek the father out of our own free will. It is only through the Holy Spirit are we lead to the God head through Jesus Christ himself.

Do this, draw a circle, In that circle write the word "GOD". 
Right up beside the circle create another circle and write the name Jesus in it. About 2 o'clockish. Then, create another circle at about 11 oclockish and write the name "Father" in it. Now, just below the center circle labeled "GOD" create another circle and label it Holy Spirit. Leave some space between each circle and the center circle labeled "GOG" so you can write the word "is" in line between each of the smaller circles. Her it should read, Father is God. Jesus is God. Holy Spirit is God.

Now, draw a light circle that starts in the center of the circle labeled God, continue in a circular pattern around to the center of the circle labeled Jesus and continue this circle on to the center of the circle labeled Holy Spirit and continue on with the line until it comes complete with the center of the circle labeled God.

Between each circle on this last line drawn through the center of all three outer circles write the words "Is not" in a manor where it reads (God) is not (Jesus) is not (Holy Spirit) Is Not (God). Early Christians used this diagram to explain the "Trinity". The Father,Son and Holy Spirit are all God, but they are not three names for the same person.

The best way I can *visually* explain this is concept.. look at the primary color wheel. (Black and white are simply shades of grey and are not considered colors in artist terms). There are "three" primary colors. In order to create any colors out side of the three primary colors, you have to use some of the three primary colors period or you will always have the primary color. Now, we as humans are designed... to notice Red as the most powerful color of the three. Blue being second and yellow being the third.

As an artist, myself, I understand that to mix these colors, it will allow me to create secondary colors to a degree. From these secondary colors I can create tertiary colors and so on so forth. Using these colors, I can make something either very appealing to the human eye or something absolutely horrific to the human eye. Agree?

It takes all three colors... get the symbolism?


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## Seeker (Jul 6, 2009)

Matthew 28:19
2 Corinthians 13:14
Ephesians 4:4-6
Titus 3:4-6
John 3:34-35
John 14:26
John 15:26
John 16:13-15
Romans 14:17,18
Romans 15:13-17
Romans 15:30
1 Corinthians 6:11, 17-19
1 Corinthians 12:4-6
2 Corinthians 1:21-22
2 Corinthians 3:4-6
Galatians 2:21 - 3:2
Galatians 4:6
Ephesians 2:18
Ephesians 3:11-17
Ephesians 5:18-20
Colossians 1:6-8
1 Thessalonians 1:1-5
1 Thessalonians 4:2 & 8
1 Thessalonians 5:18, 19
2 Thessalonians 3:5
Hebrews 9:14
1 Peter 1:2
1 John 3:23-24
1 John 4:13-14
Jude 20-21

There you have it..


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## DA REEL DADDY (Jun 7, 2005)

Thanks Seeker.


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## Reel Time (Oct 6, 2009)

Seeker said:


> Matthew 28:19
> 2 Corinthians 13:14
> Ephesians 4:4-6
> Titus 3:4-6
> ...


Thanks Seeker. I like this one. I'll look for more.
*Ephesians 4:4-6*

New International Version (NIV)

4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.


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## OnedayScratch (May 23, 2012)

Reel Time, everyone knows its onion, bell pepper and celery, silly.

Cereally, I too believe in 3 in 1. But I think the hardest to explain is the Holy Spirit. The Father gave His Son. We know this through many stories. Please forgive me as I haven't read the Bible in moons but seem to recall little on the Holy Spirit being mentioned as often.

Maybe that's why the connection isn't as tight? For me anyway.


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## DA REEL DADDY (Jun 7, 2005)

OnedayScratch said:


> Reel Time, everyone knows its onion, bell pepper and celery, silly.
> 
> Cereally, I too believe in 3 in 1. But I think the hardest to explain is the Holy Spirit. The Father gave His Son. We know this through many stories. Please forgive me as I haven't read the Bible in moons but seem to recall little on the Holy Spirit being mentioned as often.
> 
> ...


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## tngbmt (May 30, 2004)

i had to read this several times..

matt 12:30-32 
_30_ â€œWhoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. _31_ And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. _32_ Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.


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## DA REEL DADDY (Jun 7, 2005)

tngbmt said:


> i had to read this several times..
> 
> matt 12:30-32
> _30_ â€œWhoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. _31_ And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. _32_ Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.


^^^^^^
Excellent


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