# Poor grouping 257 Roberts



## TOO (Jun 11, 2004)

Ok, here goes, could use some thoughts.
Reloaded some 110 grain .25's in the Bob using Hodgden Hybrid 100V.
Bullets were a box of factory seconds from Midway, red tipped Hornady's Interbonds even though they don't tell you what they are when ordering.
Only cosmetic blemishes, but "functionally good bullets" (paraphrasing ). Was hoping they would be Nosler Accubonds, but not the case.
Anyway loaded a number of rounds with high hopes, velocities show 3000 fps+/- using H 100V.
Grouping was pathetic, 3"-4" and drifting to the right. Had one shot hit at 4" high and then next shot 7" high, and these were not flyers.
Had some factory 117 SST Hornady's and they grouped 2" high just out of MOA so the scope, bedding, etc isn't the problem.
* Any ideas? *_*My 270 shoots every reload very well, so this is a first for me.* _

Should I consider the bullets, powder amount, something else? This is first time reloading the Bob. 
Hoping to run a 110 grain bonded bullet at 2900+ fps in the Bob, but not sure about this. 
Couldn't get the target, commercial range, but imagine a dirtying shot basically bullseyed, and then 3" high and to the right, 4" high and 2" to the left of previous shot, then two factory loads w/above group, then the spreading of the 4" and 7" stuff.
Again any basic things to start with? Blemished bullets a no go?
Appreciate any thoughts.


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## dirtfish (Aug 28, 2012)

Try weighing out each bullet and see if there is a big difference.Only cosmetic blemishes, but "functionally good bullets" remember these are rejects from the manufacturer. may also might not be perfectly round bases. if you want good groups then I suggest you buy better bullets. you wouldn't buy offspec powder or cases or discount primers so why buy cheap bullets.


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## Mowdy Ag (Dec 19, 2005)

Unfortunately it's not quite that simple unless you're randomly _very_ lucky.

The ladder test is your friend:

http://kingfisher.0catch.com/guns/laddertest.explanation.html

Barrel harmonics can work for you and they can work against you.

MA


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## CDHknives (Mar 17, 2012)

I second checking the bullet weights and maybe even buying/trading for that bullet in new packaging and seeing if it is better. Then again, some bullets just don't like some rifles. Everyone loves Sierra MK's for example, and I find them to be only decent, with some common hunting bullets (Nosler BT's and AB for example) to be measurably more accurate.

I like the theory behind the ladder test but have never been able to accept the imitations of using single shots to judge results. Using loads grouping 1.5" just allows too much randomness to appear in the groups...

I like the rest of the posted article though...I have found accuracy velocity nodes in several rifles where all bullet weights group best within about 50 fps of each other.


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## deckh (Jul 23, 2010)

I seriously doubt the problem is with the bullets you reloaded. Did your rifle shoot under an inch at 100 yds. with factory ammo? In my past life when I lived in LA on payday I would venture down to Sierra Bullets in Santa Fe, Calif. I would buy them by the pound for a few bucks. I asked the woman what waswrong with them. She said when they send them through a wash that makes them bright and shiny ifthey come out tarnsihed it was not ecconmically feasible to run them through again. I have shot many 1/2 inch groups with them in .222, .223, .243, 6mm, and .30-06. Have you checked the bedding ? Have you torqued the action bolts to correct torque? I realize that many rifles are partial to specific bullets. Have you really cleaned the rifle with copper fouling solvent?


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## mas360 (Nov 21, 2006)

If your rifle is a Ruger M77, it is highly likely the culprit is the rifle rather than bullet or load. Ruger rifles built during the 80's and early 90's had poor OEM barrels. They looked good but did not shoot well until the factory barrel was replaced with aftermarket barrel.


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## mrsh978 (Apr 24, 2006)

*7mm-08*

110 grain bullet is a little "short" bullet compared to a 140gr.- 140 has a longer bearing surface and it may spin the bullets tighter for you. also, try several different types of powder-h335, varget, 4064 . i have a 7mm 08 and it shoots these so differently and you have to load several versions to find sweet spot. also , make sure all copper is out of barrell to insure you have eliminated mechincal issues you can..btw, go have fun.! thats what reload does.

disregard all above -clickes wrong post. explains where the 110 came from........my bad


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## TOO (Jun 11, 2004)

Appreciate the replies............ even m978's, h:.
*mas360*, rifle is Rem 700 classic in Stainless.
*deck*, rifle was cleaned including copper solvent before this round of shooting. Rifle gets regular cleaning.
Bedding and everything seems fine,_ factory loads did group just over 1" (two shoot group)_, these bullets were blemished pretty much as you wrote but definitely an area where I'm concerned.

*CDH, Mowdy, dirt*, bullets are definitely on my mind. Deal was a good one 50 Interbonds for about half the price. 'Course if they don't group, then it's a bad deal. Was on Midway's site to buy the 110 Accubonds and saw the deal.
Bought some 115 Partitions at same time, will load up some of them and see what they do. Will buy a box of Accubonds and see what they do as well.
Right now my first thought is the powder, the Hybrid 100V shows 200+ fps over other powders. 
Hoping for more thoughts, like said, reloads for the 270 group extremely well so I'm not sure where to start, but will check for tightness everywhere, weigh the bullets, and wait for my order of Accubonds.


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## Wado (May 15, 2011)

*Some 257 Roberts recipes*

My Roberts likes 87 grain Speer moly coated hollow points loaded with 48 grains of Winchester 760.Also likes 100 grain Sierra boat tail spitzers pushed with 45 grains of IMR 4831.The 100 grain shoots about a half inch lower at 100 yards but you can cover both groups with a nickel.Some days this gun just won't shoot.Usually when there is a crowd around.I had some good luck with Varget powder and some not so good luck.I don't have a target rifle but I did install a Timney trigger and put a Zeiss scope on top of it.Its bedded lapped and all the usual custom touches but not by any means a "target" rifle.I have had three and all of them shot well with reloads with exceptions.


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## bunka-d (Jun 1, 2011)

*257 rob*

My ruger 77 likes 45 grns of h-4831 with 120 nosler solid base boatails and fed 210 m primers shoots 3/8 group all day


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## CavassoCruisin (Jun 21, 2006)

TOO said:


> ,_ factory loads did group just over 1" (two shoot group)_,


You shot two groups of three or five shots, or the rifle shoots 1" pairs (not groups)?

If the rifle shoots that load well with other bullets, but not with the Midway seconds, then yes, probably it's a bullet problem. On the other hand, if this is the only time you've used that load, it's equally likely that the rifle dislikes the bullet or the powder, and far from impossible that it dislikes them both. Of course you started 10% below max and shot at least one round (and preferably 3) at each 2% increment to max, right? How did the lighter loads shoot? Mine usually always vary with group size increasing and decreasing, AND trending larger or smaller (both the larger and smaller groups get larger or smaller as the load increases). Best of luck!


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## bunka-d (Jun 1, 2011)

*257 roberts*

I'm not the one having problems with my 257. I just replied to his posting and told him what mine likes. my GROUPS are 5 shot groups


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## TOO (Jun 11, 2004)

CC, typo here. Should of been "2 *shot* group", not shoot. 
Did some experimenting, it was the Hodgden Hybrid 100V powder that was the cause of poor grouping.
Went to IMR 4350 and the rifle groups under an inch at 100 yards. Do have pix proof of the grouping.
Ran the whole load range from min to max with various bullets and using Hybrid 100V with same bad grouping results.
Both both 110's grouped well.
FPS is 2800'+ for 110's w/IMR4350, so the hope to be in the upper 2900's (or more)w/the 110's is not gonna happen, until............

Got about a 1/2 lb of Hybrid 100V to sell for what..... $10? Any takers?



CavassoCruisin said:


> You shot two groups of three or five shots, or the rifle shoots 1" pairs (not groups)?
> 
> If the rifle shoots that load well with other bullets, but not with the Midway seconds, then yes, probably it's a bullet problem. On the other hand, if this is the only time you've used that load, it's equally likely that the rifle dislikes the bullet or the powder, and far from impossible that it dislikes them both. Of course you started 10% below max and shot at least one round (and preferably 3) at each 2% increment to max, right? How did the lighter loads shoot? Mine usually always vary with group size increasing and decreasing, AND trending larger or smaller (both the larger and smaller groups get larger or smaller as the load increases). Best of luck!


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## CavassoCruisin (Jun 21, 2006)

Thanks for the report - glad you found a load that shoots for you!


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