# 257 Ackley or 25-06 ?



## davidb (May 10, 2006)

I have a really fine Bartlein .257 caliber cut rifled 5R 1 in 9 twist barrel and can't decide between these two. I know it is hair splitting the differences between the two but thats what makes it fun. The 257 would be on a short Rem 700 action and the 25-06 would be on a Model 70 Classic action, both Lefties.


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## backlashingcooger (Aug 2, 2006)

I have had both also...depends on what you are going to do with them...I think the 2506 has the edge on long distance shooting...but if I was walking I would chose the 257 imp.....smaller action so therefore lighter....I actuall have had 3-2506..Weatherby vanguard,Mauser custom and Ruger...kept the ruger...the 257 was a rechambered pre-64 Winchester...


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## gundoctor (May 20, 2004)

Go with the 257 Ackley, its a lot easier to reload for.
Also you will never have any problems with brass lengthening.
Just make sure your gunsmith knows how to headspace a Ackley chamber.


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## Oceola (Mar 25, 2007)

Both great flat shooters but the Rem. 700 action is stiffer and easier to accurize than the flat bottom Win. 70. That 700 action has been the building block for more accurate custom rifles over the last several decades than all the others combined. Also, probably more stocks available for the 700. IMHO.

Frank


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## THE JAMMER (Aug 1, 2005)

When I was a wholesaler and Kerry at Match Grade Arms wanted an action for one of his custom guns, he called me for a Remington 700. He makes guns for the "stars" like Craig Boddington etc.

I'm also a short action fan- too easy to "short jack" a long action on a stressful quick second shot.

THE JAMMER


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## davidb (May 10, 2006)

I am surprised that the trend seems to favor the Ackley even though this is the land of the 25-06. I am leaning towards the 257 AI but just wanted to make sure this wasn't nostalgia driven. A short action stalking rifle would be great and the 257AI is enough of a step up from the 243 to be worthwhile.

The barrel is a light #2 contour so would be a better fit for the 257. If I was going to do the 25-06 I would go for a longer maybe heavier barrel. Maybe next project will be a 25-06 Ackley on the Win, Action.


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## THE JAMMER (Aug 1, 2005)

Next time do it in 7mm 08. Much more versatile cartridge. You're not going to use the 85 or 100 grain bullets that your 257 or 25-06 will shoot for hunting. YOu will most likely be using the 115 or 120's. The 7mm 08 covers your 120 grain 257 or 25-06 plus, if you want it you have a 200 yard elk gun with the 140's or 160's.

Plus it's built on that old reliable .308.

THE JAMMER


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## davidb (May 10, 2006)

708 is one of the best The 260 remmington is one of the most under valued cartridges around. And I really like the 7x57 if only I could find a left hand Mauser at a garage sale.

I already have five rifles in the .270-7Mag range so the gaps are becoming non existant.

My 280Ai will send off the 120 grain barnes at around 3500 fps so got the light bullet laser load covered.

Elk - I like something bigger 7mag-.375 class. But a careful hunter with a 7mm 08 could do pretty well with it.


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## THE JAMMER (Aug 1, 2005)

Remember I said 200 yard elk gun FOR 708.

THE JAMMER


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## Capt Ryan Rachunek (Feb 16, 2006)

.257 Ferguson - PM me for details


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## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

That .257 Ferguson rifle is pretty slick. Not slick enough for me to get rid of my .257 Wby though.


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## Capt Ryan Rachunek (Feb 16, 2006)

Haute Pursuit said:


> That .257 Ferguson rifle is pretty slick. Not slick enough for me to get rid of my .257 Wby though.


 Why wouldn't you trade for 4000fps+ out of the muzzle? You can have it built on your current Weatherby action.....


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## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

Because I'm not very far from that now and don't want to drop another$1,000 per 100FPS. I told one of the guys on my lease about that rifle and gave him the website info and contact number but he said Ferguson never got back in touch with him. Not trying to knock him at all, he was probably really busy. His cartridge and rifle is badarse.


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## Woodrow (Jun 17, 2004)

.257 Ferguson "Hot Tamale" = .257 STW

Looks great on paper, but I'll take my .25-06.

davidb: I like your rationale in selecting the 257AI


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## fightinaggies (Mar 30, 2008)

25-06 is a dirty round. I shot a hog this year right between the eyes and it went all the way through the head and chest, came out and still blew through the back leg shooting federal fusion bullets. But honestly dont know much about the .257 round.


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## Capt Ryan Rachunek (Feb 16, 2006)

Woodrow said:


> .257 Ferguson "Hot Tamale" = .257 STW
> 
> Looks great on paper, but I'll take my .25-06.
> 
> davidb: I like your rationale in selecting the 257AI


You obviously have never seen what the Hot Tamale can do.....


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## gundoctor (May 20, 2004)

THE JAMMER said:


> Next time do it in 7mm 08. Much more versatile cartridge. You're not going to use the 85 or 100 grain bullets that your 257 or 25-06 will shoot for hunting. YOu will most likely be using the 115 or 120's. The 7mm 08 covers your 120 grain 257 or 25-06 plus, if you want it you have a 200 yard elk gun with the 140's or 160's.
> 
> Plus it's built on that old reliable .308.
> 
> THE JAMMER


The only cartridge more of a pain to reload for than the 308 and its offspring, is its parent the 300 Savage. 
The military added a little neck length to the Savage, but they didn't add near enough. 
The 7X57 is a much better balanced round than the 708 and if you do the Ackley Imp version, the 708 don't come close.
Short actions ain't everything.



Capt Ryan Rachunek said:


> .257 Ferguson - PM me for details


Another high velocity barrel eating round that has a very short barrel life. 
They are "OK" if you don't shoot very much, but your gunsmith is going to love you if you spend any time on the range. I've seen rifles in this class burn out the barrel while still working up a accurate load.
Gunsmiths love speed freaks.


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## farmdude (Mar 25, 2008)

THE JAMMER said:


> Next time do it in 7mm 08. Much more versatile cartridge. *You're not going to use the 85 or 100 grain bullets that your 257 or 25-06 will* shoot for hunting.
> THE JAMMER


when properly placed ya can bring down an animal like this with 100 grain in 1 shot DRT


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## THE JAMMER (Aug 1, 2005)

FARMDUDE,

I never said a 100 gr bullet wouldn't kill a deer. Thousands have been. When properly placed a 22 long rifle will kill that same deer. All I'm saying is, I know I can catch a 30 pound grouper on 15# line, but I'm going to be using larger gear if I'm targeting grouper.

All you have to do is ask the guys who guide in the Rockies or wherever for big game, what is their initial reaction when one of their new hunters shows up in camp with a light caliber light/fast bullet combo. Trust me they don't like it.

The smaller bullet/caliber argument is always used with the "proper shot placement" caveate. How many times in the field, not at the range at Carter's, but in the field, is that proper shot placement actually available.

Let me ask one question of everyone reading this, and if you can't answer it off the top of your head, you might want to re think that "proper shot placement light bullet" argument. How much will a 20 mph cross wind affect the impact point of your bullet on a 300 yard cross canyon shot? I'll bet there aren't 10% who can answer that off the top of their head for their favorite deer rifle. And how many of us can estimate not only what the wind speed and direction are at the place I'm taking the shot from, but also what it is halfway between me and my target, and at the target???? It might be zero MPH at my stand on the downwind side of a ridge, but then 20-25 halfway across that canyon I'm shooting over.

Question number 2: If you sighted your rifle in in Houston at 85 degrees, what will be the effect on your muzzle velocity/impact point in Colorado at 30 degrees at 9,000'??

Answer to question number one with a 1 MOA rifle (most of which are not) at 300 yards you already have a built in 3" error, add the 14" movement attributable to the wind and that goes to a 17" bullet movement (missed shot at best, gut shot at worst). That's for a 100 gr .257 at 3000 fps.

Also believe it or not the change in temperature alone will affect your muzzle velocity by as much as 150-200 fps. So for that same 257 100 grn at 3000 muzzle, you are now down to about 2800 muzzle which means to be dead on at 300 yards you will have to to be sighted in 2.3" higher at 100 yards. At 300 yards thats almost 7 moa. Add that to your inherent 3" variable because of being a 1 moa gun, and again huge problem in making that "proper placement shot." And that is not even plugging in the altitude differential. You have to have a computer program for that ( I have one on the neatest watches I've ever had that does these calculations- different subject).

Add the vertical and horizontal variables above together and tell me more about that perfect shot placement/light bullet argument again.

Now we need to take the above info and apply that to our 1.5-2 moa deer rifle, and see where we really are.

Not trying to be difficult here, but there are so many variables in ballistics that most people never investigate. All they look at are vertical drop of the bullet as they sighted it in, under perfect conditions, perfect rest, no wind, 50' altitude in houston at 80-90 degrees etc. That's not the real hunting world.

Here's what the sniper guys consider before they take a shot: muzzle velocity, ballistic coefficient of the bullet, scope height above bore, range, vertical angle (up or down), temperature, humidity, wind speed and direction at the point of taking the shot, midway to the target, and at the target (the wind tables in current reloading manuals only assume a 90 degree cross wind, which it never is), moa of your gun, altitude, etc. Lots of stuff.

Now granted we are not trying to shoot someone's eyeball out at 500 meters with our deer guns, but take several of those inputs above and add them to your average 1.5-2 moa deer rifle, not having a perfect rest off of which to shoot, adrenaline flowing because of that 200 mulie across the canyon, 25 degrees freezing your a_ _ off, and I think we can see the negative possibilities.

Sorry this is so long. I obviously had time on my hands on this beautiful Friday.

IMHO,

THE JAMMER


farmdude said:


> when properly placed ya can bring down an animal like this with 100 grain in 1 shot DRT


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## THE JAMMER (Aug 1, 2005)

I made a mistake in the middle paragraph above regarding the effect of temperature on muzzle velocity. I said to be dead on at 300 yards with the lower muzzle velocity you would have to be sighted in2.3" higher at one hundred yards. At 300 yards that's almost 7 moa. WRONG. It's 2.3 moa which relates to 7 INCHES at 300 yards.

Sorry,

THE JAMMER


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## farmdude (Mar 25, 2008)

I reload so the ballistics and trajectory aren't what mine are


I developed a load for my 25-06 and my 300 win mag last year for when I antelope hunted....I shot both at 420 yrds. (target I set up)

I had a cross wind of approx 15 mph...shooting off of a caldwell leadsled (very stable) I shot about 5 rounds for each calibur... when I checked the target the 25-06 had less wind drift than the 300...as I shot my goat at about 100 yrds. this became a test that had no bearing on either calibur.

I can see your point at the vast difference between Tx. and the rockies in elevation etc. I hunted in western SD so the elevation between eastern SD and western SD wasn't near that great...solution to choosing a cal...get close and everything works ... that buck in the pic was at 250 yrds. and about 20 mph crosswind though....knowing the expected trajectory and wind dift are crucial...for any long range shots...I believe that is the most impotant element of long range shooting....sounds like a super cool watch ya got there Jammer. post a pic of it please! and tell some more about it
I know some claim they wouldn't use the 25-06 for deer sized game...I love it though and it's my #1 choice for deer antelope...to each their own I guess


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## THE JAMMER (Aug 1, 2005)

FARMDUDE,

That 25-06 is and always has been a great deer gun. I'll bet you shoot the larger 120 grain bullets when hunting goats and deer though. 

Also the wind drift will vary as a function of bullet weight, wind speed, and velocity (time in the air). As you found out in your 25-06 / 300 experiment. THose Caldwell sleds are hot stuff. I use mine when I'm shooting 400 grain 45-70's at 2000 fps. That'll rock your world.

And I couldn't agree more with the "get close and none of this matters" philosophy. I used to hunt a lot with traditional archery equipment- long bows/ recurves. It's amazing the different mind set you have when you're on a ridge and you see a deer across the canyon feeding that's 400 yards away. If I have a bow in my hand, I start planning my stalk-I'll go behind the ridge, work my all the way around til I'm above him, by that time the air will have heated up and the breeze will be blowing uphill, so I can pop over the top and stalk him from above to within 25-30 yards. Done that many times.

But if I have a gun in my hand, I range him, see how I can get to within maybe 200 yards using cover between me and the deer and take the shot. There's no reason I shouldn't take the "bow mindset" and apply it to the rifle situation, and really get close even though I'm shooting a rifle. And that's where the real fun is anyway, stalking close to an animal and hunting it on its own terms. Mano y deero.

I'll send a picture of the watch later, but it is a digital watch that also has a computer program in it in which you input: the bc of your bullet, muzzle velocity, scope height above bore, number of clicks per moa for your scope, and your point zero range- all of which are fixed ahead of time. Then when you are ready to take your shot you add in: distance, elevation, wind speed and direction (you use a clock code entry for this 5 for blowing from 5:00, 12 for coming from straight ahead, etc), angle up or down to the target. And it will then tell you 8 clicks up and 6 clicks right, and once you make those corrections to your scope you will be dead on. It's amazing, and the only real variable is the wind speed and direction, but at least you are putting in something for that.

I'll get more info on this later.

THE "JUST GOT BACK FROM THE RANGE AND FOUND 4 NEW GOOD LOADS FOR MY AR" JAMMER


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## farmdude (Mar 25, 2008)

THE JAMMER said:


> FARMDUDE,
> 
> That 25-06 is and always has been a great deer gun. I'll bet you shoot the larger 120 grain bullets when hunting goats and deer though. nope never have
> 
> ...


have you found that your bowhunting skills have made rifle hunting easier....like knowing how to stalk closer...more in tune with the wind and what it's doing etc...I know I sure think it has made me a better hunter

now I just gotta see if I can get r done from my wheelchair....I will figure out a way and get r done with both bow and rifle


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## THE JAMMER (Aug 1, 2005)

No doubt it has made me a better hunter. If I had shot every elk I was within 20 yards of with my bow, I would have killed about probably 10 or 15 of them. NOne of them was big enough so I passed- this was in New Mexico when I lived there, and there were what seemed like 300-350 bulls all over the place- made it hard to take a rag horn or small 5 by. So you get greedy, and go home empty handed. You can't kill one until you kill one.

THE JAMMER


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## tokavi (May 6, 2006)

Another option if your looking a .25 calibers is the .250-3000 Savage Ackley Improved. You can fire form the cases giving you a short action that has little recoil, and will perform like a 25-06.


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## davidb (May 10, 2006)

250 Ackley is a surprising cartridge and ideal for a short barreled short action rifle. I am a little concerned about the 257 in the short action but if you go to a long action then might as well go 25/06.

The 250 gets my vote as one of the best rounds possible for a young hunter as well as the 260 Rem.


Gun Doc. could you elaborate more on the loading issues with the 25/06? I am familiar with those regarding the short necked cases. (08 & 300 Win.)


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## TXPalerider (May 21, 2004)

farmdude said:


> have you found that your bowhunting skills have made rifle hunting easier....like knowing how to stalk closer...more in tune with the wind and what it's doing etc...I know I sure think it has made me a better hunter
> 
> .........


Not sure, It's been some time since I hunted with a rifle. 

Not to hijack, but, I'm sure if you applied all the same principles/techniques, it would. I think many of us just get lazy when we pick up a rifle.


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## gundoctor (May 20, 2004)

davidb said:


> 250 Ackley is a surprising cartridge and ideal for a short barreled short action rifle. I am a little concerned about the 257 in the short action but if you go to a long action then might as well go 25/06.
> 
> The 250 gets my vote as one of the best rounds possible for a young hunter as well as the 260 Rem.
> 
> Gun Doc. could you elaborate more on the loading issues with the 25/06? I am familiar with those regarding the short necked cases. (08 & 300 Win.)


Like all tapered rimless cases with a long shoulder, the 25/06 tends to grow in length with each reloading and will at some point(if brass life is long enough) separate just in front of the case head. Thats why we all have case length measuring devices and case trimmers.
The sharper shoulder and less body taper of the Ackley imp cartridges, greatly helps correct this malady. I don't remember ever having to trim cases for my 257 Ackley imp. After 10 loadings, the length would be within a couple of .001" of what it was at the start. With most 25/06, it's trim after 2 or 3 loadings.

As for concerns about a 257 in a short action, for many years I had a Sako Forester(short action) in 257 Ackley imp. The gun never had a problem with feeding. Remington also built the 257 Roberts on their model 722(same length as the short action 700). So if you stay with standard 257 overall length and have your rifle throated for that length ammo, there will be no issues.
And you are correct, the 250 Savage Ackley imp is another very good cartridge.


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## Woodrow (Jun 17, 2004)

Capt Ryan Rachunek said:


> You obviously have never seen what the Hot Tamale can do.....


What do you do with yours and why do you like it so much?


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## Capt Ryan Rachunek (Feb 16, 2006)

Woodrow said:


> What do you do with yours and why do you like it so much?


Super flat shooting and there are multiple bullet combinations that can be used. I have seen javalina shot at 600yds with it and I know that one has been taken to Africa where numerous species of plains game, up to 1800lbs, have been taken with this load.


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## Capt Ryan Rachunek (Feb 16, 2006)

gundoctor said:


> Another high velocity barrel eating round that has a very short barrel life.
> They are "OK" if you don't shoot very much, but your gunsmith is going to love you if you spend any time on the range. I've seen rifles in this class burn out the barrel while still working up a accurate load.
> Gunsmiths love speed freaks.


What do you consider a "short" barrel life???


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## Woodrow (Jun 17, 2004)

Capt Ryan Rachunek said:


> Super flat shooting and there are multiple bullet combinations that can be used.


Flat? Heck yea it is flat! But I'll argue re: multiple bullet combinations...unless all your shots are 500+ yards then you almost have to (or at least you should) use an all copper bullet like TSX's, Lost River's, etc.



Capt Ryan Rachunek said:


> I have seen javalina shot at 600yds with it and I know that one has been taken to Africa where numerous species of plains game, up to 1800lbs, have been taken with this load.


No doubt it is flat, but all those plains animals, including elephants, have been killed with arrows.

Just to clarify, when I said I'll take my .25-06 over the .257 STW I wasn't implying that the .25-06 is flatter or killed stuff deader...fact is I'm happy with my .25-06 and the thought of the .257 STW doesn't do anything for me that makes me want to change. Call me crazy if you will...


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## Rack Ranch (May 25, 2004)

I would consider hunting 1800lb animals with a .25 caliber bullet as unethical and I'm very surprised the PH allowed it..There is always a delicate balance between speed and bullet weight. For the .25 I like a 117gr. bullet at 3000fps...Walker


Capt Ryan Rachunek said:


> I know that one has been taken to Africa where numerous species of plains game, up to 1800lbs, have been taken with this load.


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## tokavi (May 6, 2006)

Rack Ranch said:


> I would consider hunting 1800lb animals with a .25 caliber bullet as unethical and I'm very surprised the PH allowed it..There is always a delicate balance between speed and bullet weight. For the .25 I like a 117gr. bullet at 3000fps...Walker


I think your right on the money when it comes to shooting really big critters witht he .25 calibers. Now I have to say they are my favorites. I have or have hunted with 25-06, 25-06 AI, 257 Roberts, 257 Roberts AI and the 250 Savage AI. I have taken deer and elk with the 25-06 and 25-06 AI. They both did a good job with proper bullet placement. I also think with todays choice of bonded, controlled expansion and all copper bullets bullets hunting game up to elk size within the limits of the rifle/cartridge is a realistic option. I know the big gun guys are going to be all over me for that statement so I will qualify it. I guide deer and elk hunters every year. I see dozens of different cartridge/rifle setups during a season. I'm not going to say it's a "rule" but all the guides wince when a hunter shows up with a big boomer magnum whatever. Seems these guys always have a hard time killing what they shoot at. For some reason they always blame something besides themselves for the miss/bad shot. WE almost never have a problem with the guys that shoot.25's, 30-06, .270's, ect. That said on mule deer and elk over the past few years we have only recovered a few .25 bullets that did not pass thru but we shoot mostly Trophy Bonded or Barnes bullets. Those recovered maintained 80% plus of their weight. As for penetration hows a 25-06 Trophy Bonded quartering away on a big cow elk, carcass weight was 378 lbs. at the processor, bullet entered behind the last rib angled thru broke the off shoulder and exited at a ranged 315 yards. Elk traveled about 4', one step, before going down. The .25's will get the job done! That said I think the .250 Savage AI is my favorite simply because of the lighter recoil and no I do not recommend it for elk but in a pinch it will do! Just my .02


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## Capt Ryan Rachunek (Feb 16, 2006)

Rack Ranch said:


> I would consider hunting 1800lb animals with a .25 caliber bullet as unethical and I'm very surprised the PH allowed it..There is always a delicate balance between speed and bullet weight. For the .25 I like a 117gr. bullet at 3000fps...Walker


That is your opinion, but I have to disagree. Unethical is a VERY strong term and in my opinion uncalled for. Explain to me how the caliber of the bullet has anything to do with ethics? I have seen multiple animals wounded by individuals using magnum caliber guns that they are scared to shoot, or that they bought due to the "Macho" factor. Shot placement is the key to ethical hunting, not the size of your gun. Take the time to do a little research on current slug designs and I think that you will be able to make a more educated comment.....


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## Capt Ryan Rachunek (Feb 16, 2006)

Woodrow said:


> Flat? Heck yea it is flat! But I'll argue re: multiple bullet combinations...unless all your shots are 500+ yards then you almost have to (or at least you should) use an all copper bullet like TSX's, Lost River's, etc.
> 
> No doubt it is flat, but all those plains animals, including elephants, have been killed with arrows.
> 
> Just to clarify, when I said I'll take my .25-06 over the .257 STW I wasn't implying that the .25-06 is flatter or killed stuff deader...fact is I'm happy with my .25-06 and the thought of the .257 STW doesn't do anything for me that makes me want to change. Call me crazy if you will...


I don't think your crazy, you just have a different opinion. I am not going to even qualify your arrow comment as it doesn't pertain to the current discussion. Last time I checked, the laws of physics state that mass times velocity equals momentum. Greater momentum equals increased energy and increased energy equals more knock down power (when correctly controlled and released through bullet expansion). If you prefer your .25-06, that is fine with me, however, physics says that the .257 Hot Tamale is a more efficient round.....


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## Rack Ranch (May 25, 2004)

I think your right, I do need to become a little more edumecated. All this time I thought a slug was something fired from a shotgun and bullets were fired from a rifle. Going to the lab now...Walker


Capt Ryan Rachunek said:


> Take the time to do a little research on current slug designs and I think that you will be able to make a more educated comment.....


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## Rack Ranch (May 25, 2004)

*257 stw*

This is part of an article written by Kirby Allen that I thought ya'll would find interesting...Walker

Have a bit of free time so I figured I would post a little imformation about these Ultra Performance rounds. First off, let me talk about why I decided to design such extreme rounds. As a custom rifle builder and wildcat nut, I knew full well that the performance I wanted would not be barrel friendly. This really was not a problem as I wanted to design these rounds specifically for use on pronghorn and deer size game up to 400 lbs or so.

My performance goals were really pretty simple. I wanted a round that would produce a trajectory flat enough to engage deer size targets out to 500 yards without any real hold over. Basically I wanted to be able to hold on hair from the muzzle to 500 yards with no major vertical adjustment.

Also, the rifle had to be at or under 9 3/4 lbs and have recoil levels in the 7mm Rem Mag range or less so that anyone could easily master them in a relatively light weight rifle for shooting 500 yards.

My initial testing was with the 257 STW wildcat which was very impressive. I have read many reports on this wildcat that list a velocity of 4100 fps with a 100 gr bullet out of a 28" barrel. Well after building six different 257 STW rifles last year alone and fully testing them with barrel lengths from 26" to 30", this 4100 fps is simply not attainable with comfortable pressures. In fact, the fastest 100 gr load I found topped out at 3950 fps in the 30" 3 groove Lilja barrels. Anything over this would loosen primer pockets. Well,


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## davidb (May 10, 2006)

Some interesting info. I discounted the 257 STW and similar because I don't have a spare long action at the moment. But also info. in Ackleys books on the 25CCC and other wonders on the blown out H&H case caused me to question them. The story was of bullet failures and hard load development with severe barrel throat erosion by the time a load was worked up. Modern powders and bullets have reduced these problems but still I have heard of barrel life in the 900-1200 round range with modern renditions. Also I thought the Lost Creek bullets were no longer made. I have heard of people having wind drift issues with th 6mm and 25 cal. rockets that a 6.5mm or 7 wouldn't with 140-180gr. VLDs. Mass and high ballistic coefficient are your friends in bucking the wind, velocity comes in third place. Before some one corrects me: Yes I know time of flight is critical in all drift/drop equations.

None of this has anything to do with a walking/stalking lightweight rifle used for Deer sized game at realistic ranges of less than 400yds. 

Hope that puts a little $4.20 gal. gasoline on the fire.


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## Capt Ryan Rachunek (Feb 16, 2006)

Walker,
You obviously know everything there is to know about every caliber ever made, so I won't bore you anymore. Don't know what your agenda is, but obviously you have something against the .257 Hot Tamale.....If you feel like a bigger man by attempting to point out a nomenclature difference, go ahead. You obviously have no comment on the actual point of that post..... 

BTW, a slug (by definition) is a solid, one piece, ballistic projectile. The term is commonly applied to shotgun slugs to differentiate them from shotshells, but it also used to describe the bullet of a rifle cartridge. Again, a little research would be in order before you start calling people out.....


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## davidb (May 10, 2006)

Why stop with the Tamale, go for the whole enchilada and get a 25 x 300 RUM, or even better the 25 x .416 Rigby improved. But wait the 25 x 50 browning will beat those whimpy cartridges easy. Kills game with it's vapor trail.

Wasn't knocking the Tamale just was showing that I had put some thought into it and it was too hot for me.


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