# Long Day At The Deer Lease



## hjm (May 8, 2016)

It seems like all of a sudden it just got HOT . Our place has received some really good rains this year at the right time. We have added a few new feed stations and we are upgrading several of our 1,000lb feeders to 2,000lb feeders. Me and my guys believe in feeding them as much as they will eat and letting them get as old as they can get. 
Right now we are putting out roughly 12,000lbs of Double Down every 3 weeks. I expect this month - September will be 20,000lb months.

We are getting fired up, can’t wait to see what this season brings!


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## broadonrod (Feb 26, 2010)

Itâ€™s definitely hot! I just got back and it was 110Â° In the shade after 2:00.
Iâ€™m glad yâ€™all got some rain out of those storms. We have had some tough luck with the rains. Neighbors on both sides of us have had almost double what we have got. Front pasture has had 1.8 inches since January and the back pasture has had 1.4â€ since January. We have 2 big tanks dry and 6 out of 10 of our small tanks are dry. We are hauling water to feed stations every 2 weeks. All in all the deer are as fat and healthy as I have ever seen them. They are really hammering the feed but hauling water is a pain. Sure hope we get a good 3-5â€ rain soon. The only thing green on our place is the mesquite. Everything else is looking pretty rough. 
This is the worst drought I have seen on our lease in the 16 years I have been in there. I guess we will see what happens ðŸ˜‰. Thereâ€™s not much for the deer to eat except what we are giving them. With a deer to an estimated 3-5 acres we are filling feeders every 16-20 days now. We just moved that up to every 14 days. 
Good luck this season young man! I know your working hard on that ranch and doing it right! Itâ€™s going to be incredible if you keep doing what you have been doing the last couple of years! Iâ€™m looking forward to seeing pictures of your bucks around September! 
Brett Holden


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

Thatâ€™s a tough way to put out 12,000+ pounds of feed. Oh to be young again. Iâ€™m sure it will pay off for you. Look forward to seeing your pics next season.


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## hjm (May 8, 2016)

WillieT said:


> Thatâ€™s a tough way to put out 12,000+ pounds of feed. Oh to be young again. Iâ€™m sure it will pay off for you. Look forward to seeing your pics next season.


It really is. It takes them about 2 days to fill all of our feeders. We use Luchasis in San Diego. They deliver and fill our feeders for us twice a month. I will share some pictures later in the growing season, for now I'm focusing on redfish and trout.


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## hjm (May 8, 2016)

broadonrod said:


> Itâ€™s definitely hot! I just got back and it was 110Â° In the shade after 2:00.
> Iâ€™m glad yâ€™all got some rain out of those storms. We have had some tough luck with the rains. Neighbors on both sides of us have had almost double what we have got. Front pasture has had 1.8 inches since January and the back pasture has had 1.4â€ since January. We have 2 big tanks dry and 6 out of 10 of our small tanks are dry. We are hauling water to feed stations every 2 weeks. All in all the deer are as fat and healthy as I have ever seen them. They are really hammering the feed but hauling water is a pain. Sure hope we get a good 3-5â€ rain soon. The only thing green on our place is the mesquite. Everything else is looking pretty rough.
> This is the worst drought I have seen on our lease in the 16 years I have been in there. I guess we will see what happens ðŸ˜‰. Thereâ€™s not much for the deer to eat except what we are giving them. With a deer to an estimated 3-5 acres we are filling feeders every 16-20 days now. We just moved that up to every 14 days.
> Good luck this season young man! I know your working hard on that ranch and doing it right! Itâ€™s going to be incredible if you keep doing what you have been doing the last couple of years! Iâ€™m looking forward to seeing pictures of your bucks around September!
> Brett Holden


Thanks. I know you guys are pretty dry, I am afraid its coming our way slowly but surely. The cattle leasee is pulling some cattle off this week and we are going to add a few more water stations. We have plenty of surface water but this time of year you can't get enough. Im really excited about the amount of feed we are putting out this summer, we passed some very good deer the last 2 years so we are all anxious to see what they turn into.


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## hjm (May 8, 2016)

Time to put out CS.


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## hjm (May 8, 2016)

Hauling water in this week. It sure is getting dry, we are praying for rain.


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## al_carl (Jan 20, 2012)

That's a heck of a water wagon! What's that thing weigh when it's full?


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## hjm (May 8, 2016)

al_carl said:


> That's a heck of a water wagon! What's that thing weigh when it's full?


Im really not sure. ITs not too bad, my duramax pulls it easily.


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## kweber (Sep 20, 2005)

1000gal ag fert/water trailer...
12k lbs if filled w/heavy liquid fertilizer...
8k filled w/water...
pulled many w/a 1ton flatbed...
no big deal....
I cant see a whitetail worth all that...
but JMO


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## hjm (May 8, 2016)

kweber said:


> 1000gal ag fert/water trailer...
> 12k lbs if filled w/heavy liquid fertilizer...
> 8k filled w/water...
> pulled many w/a 1ton flatbed...
> ...


It's worth it for us. My passion/ hobby is growing big deer. It's not that much extra work to put water out every couple of weeks. In the area I hunt we do not have a water well so our deer rely on surface water or the water we provide. We have a high density and spend a lot of $ on feed so it would be a shame to miss an important step in the equation. Brett Holden and a few other guys I know understand how important it is to have water paired with your supplemental feeding program.


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## kweber (Sep 20, 2005)

well, just me and me alone...
I'd rather take the $ and do a full-on Zim 
safari w/ Cape and others for possibly less $ ...
I may never know...


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## FREON (Jun 14, 2005)

hjm said:


> It really is. It takes them about 2 days to fill all of our feeders. We use Luchasis in San Diego. They deliver and fill our feeders for us twice a month. I will share some pictures later in the growing season, for now I'm focusing on redfish and trout.


 Where is your lease/ranch located?


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## hjm (May 8, 2016)

FREON said:


> hjm said:
> 
> 
> > It really is. It takes them about 2 days to fill all of our feeders. We use Luchasis in San Diego. They deliver and fill our feeders for us twice a month. I will share some pictures later in the growing season, for now I'm focusing on redfish and trout.
> ...


Webb county


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## sea sick (Feb 9, 2006)

kweber said:


> well, just me and me alone...
> I'd rather take the $ and do a full-on Zim
> safari w/ Cape and others for possibly less $ ...
> I may never know...


Maybe he's done it, or has no interest in it. His money, his time. What's it matter. Now if he comes askin you for money or to help him fill feeders, that's a different story.


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## kweber (Sep 20, 2005)

OK 
I get his drift...
his passion, cool!
just voiced what I'd rather do...
OK?
I've seen some bruisers, WT and mulies at night from a cab of a 
cowtruck and a locomotive...all over SWTX and WTx 
and not just off the hi-ways.. in the ranches, too!
there's some huge elk out there, too, now ...
they weren't there in the 80's...
just sed what I'd do w/same $..
S of Spofford, 2-3rd wk of Dec would amaze a deer-hunter...


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## kweber (Sep 20, 2005)

hjm said:


> Webb county


anywhere close to the Galvan?


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## sea sick (Feb 9, 2006)

kweber said:


> OK
> I get his drift...
> his passion, cool!
> just voiced what I'd rather do...
> ...


I gotcha... no harm intended. I'm sure the majority of folks are thinkin what you are


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## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

I physically can't handle it anymore, but I can understand the work and money spent on season leases. For some reason package hunts just don't strike me the same as being a season lease holder. To each his own, but if ever won the lottery (which I won't since I don't gamble) I would want huge acreage, feed the heck out of them and give them all the water they need.


As crazy as this sounds, and I hope it doesn't come out wrong: I would love to be on a season lease like the Holden pasture and hunt it. But as a package hunt it doesn't hold the same appeal. Going just to watch and photograph as a visitor would be cool though. It seems contradictory, but that is just being honest. Basically, I would have to put in the work to feel worthy of killing the deer.


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## kweber (Sep 20, 2005)

probally a bunch more guys out there that'd like to hang-out, help and never pull a trigger.. just be part of the camp and enjoy the fun/comraderie/expererience/get-away...
that's deer camp! 
and that's cool!


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## kweber (Sep 20, 2005)

^ kinda like the old Garwood goose camp...
cards and scotch till 2
4-5am separates the heroes out....
:rotfl:
1 or 2 didn't make the call
them was some rough mornin's!
we were either tuff, stupid and most likely both....


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## hjm (May 8, 2016)

kweber said:


> hjm said:
> 
> 
> > Webb county
> ...


No sir. We are in eastern Webb county. The better part of the county &#128578;. Just kidding


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## hjm (May 8, 2016)

Whitebassfisher said:


> I physically can't handle it anymore, but I can understand the work and money spent on season leases. For some reason package hunts just don't strike me the same as being a season lease holder. To each his own, but if ever won the lottery (which I won't since I don't gamble) I would want huge acreage, feed the heck out of them and give them all the water they need.
> 
> As crazy as this sounds, and I hope it doesn't come out wrong: I would love to be on a season lease like the Holden pasture and hunt it. But as a package hunt it doesn't hold the same appeal. Going just to watch and photograph as a visitor would be cool though. It seems contradictory, but that is just being honest. Basically, I would have to put in the work to feel worthy of killing the deer.


I'm on both sides. I am a full time hunting/ fishing guide so I know where you are Coming from with the commercial hunts. I leased this ranch to have a place where I could take my wife and daughter hunting.
I have a passion for building ranches and managing wildlife. I love to see how big I can grow a deer or the excitment of wonder if that 6 year old 170 is going to make a 190 the following year. I see over 100 deer die every year through my business and that's great, people make memories and we enjoy sharing that with them but to me personally that's not what it's about anymore. I went through that stage as a teenager where I had to fill all of my tags and I had to kill the biggest buck on the ranch or I wasn't satisfied. 
Myself and my lease members really don't care about shooting deer. We would just assume let the good ones die of old age and let the kids or people who have never killed a deer shoot an old managament buck. We try to grow and hunt 200" 7.5 year old+ deer. I've passed the same deer the last 3 years, if he's not 200" I'll pass him again this year and kill him next year. He will be 9 years old this season, he might die of old age or he might live and go down hill and be a 140". Either way is fine with me, I'm really not that mad at them anymore. I get to see my little girl and my wife enjoy the ranch along with all of my lease members. That's a really special thing when you have a group of like minded hunters on a lease.


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## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

hjm said:


> Iâ€™m on both sides. I am a full time hunting/ fishing guide so I know where you are Coming from with the commercial hunts. I leased this ranch to have a place where I could take my wife and daughter hunting.
> I have a passion for building ranches and managing wildlife. I love to see how big I can grow a deer or the excitment of wonder if that 6 year old 170 is going to make a 190 the following year. I see over 100 deer die every year through my business and thatâ€™s great, people make memories and we enjoy sharing that with them but to me personally thatâ€™s not what itâ€™s about anymore. I went through that stage as a teenager where I had to fill all of my tags and I had to kill the biggest buck on the ranch or I wasnâ€™t satisfied.
> Myself and my lease members really donâ€™t care about shooting deer. We would just assume let the good ones die of old age and let the kids or people who have never killed a deer shoot an old managament buck. We try to grow and hunt 200â€ 7.5 year old+ deer. Iâ€™ve passed the same deer the last 3 years, if heâ€™s not 200â€ Iâ€™ll pass him again this year and kill him next year. He will be 9 years old this season, he might die of old age or he might live and go down hill and be a 140â€. Either way is fine with me, Iâ€™m really not that mad at them anymore. I get to see my little girl and my wife enjoy the ranch along with all of my lease members. Thatâ€™s a really special thing when you have a group of like minded hunters on a lease.


You have much more experience than me, and explained yourself better. My last many years of deer hunting were with bow & arrow, and then I just lost desire to kill anymore. But always, whitetails bucks will excite me. There is just something something about them I can't explain. If I could afford it, I would grow big deer.


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## hjm (May 8, 2016)

It was a hot one out there yesterday. Temps climbed up to 105 by 4pm. 
We checked feeders, feed consumption is down a bit. Looks like they have eaten about 250lbs out of each feeder. We have a couple that are 1/2 full. We filled them about a week ago. Looks like the ***** found one of them.
Adding more water stations next week and bringing a dozer out for 2 weeks. Digging at least 2, new tanks. 100’x50’ and 10’ deep. Might as well stay busy killing time before deer season.


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

To do what you do and Brett Holden and his group does is a full time job, VERY hard job. I appreciate what you do because I like to view the results. It brings back memories of when I was younger and had my own year round lease.

The last lease we had, we were on for 27 years. I almost cried when our land owner came into our camp to tell us he sold the place. I felt like I was too old and tired to set up a new place. Besides, it would have never been the same. Half way better Breckinridge and Albany.

I appreciate yâ€™all sharing with us.


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## fy0834 (Jan 18, 2011)

We got close to selling our property a few weeks ago... one of the stipulations from the onset was we would retain the hunting for the next eight years on a non revocable lease. For family and family he existing clubs.
When the final documents came to sign... there was an at will cancelation clause in the lease.

We walked the deal. Life is too short to deal with people you canâ€™t trust.


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## hjm (May 8, 2016)

WillieT said:


> To do what you do and Brett Holden and his group does is a full time job, VERY hard job. I appreciate what you do because I like to view the results. It brings back memories of when I was younger and had my own year round lease.
> 
> The last lease we had, we were on for 27 years. I almost cried when our land owner came into our camp to tell us he sold the place. I felt like I was too old and tired to set up a new place. Besides, it would have never been the same. Half way better Breckinridge and Albany.
> 
> I appreciate y'all sharing with us.


Thank you. Actually I'll fill you In on a secret. I went to college at TAMUK to become a wildlife biologist, that didn't pan out I needed up getting my degree in Ag Science but I soaked up a lot of info from the wildlife department when I was there. When I became friends with Brett and started paying attention to what he was doing I quickly threw most of what I learned out the window and started using common sense to manage deer rather than what a text book says.
There's several gambles that you take when leasing. Loosing the place for any reason is part of it. I always have that in the back of my mind but I have a really good relationship with my LO, I couldn't ask for a better person to work with. That's a huge part of the equation and I'm very blessed to have a great Landowner


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## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

hjm said:


> T..... When I became friends with Brett and started paying attention to what he was doing *I quickly threw most of what I learned out the window and started using common sense to manage deer rather than what a text book says.*
> .....


Can you give examples of textbook teaching that is wrong? Not arguing, I really want to know. A very simplified version of what I think y'all do is allow the deer to reach maturity, which is very rare in most areas, and give them an endless amount of quality feed and water. This requires time, work, and lots of money. People such as myself benefit from what y'all do, because it is awe inspiring to be honest. That big old buck just does something .....


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

hjm

We are lucky we have six nice big deep tanks on our 1400 acres so we dont have to haul water. Was on a lease near Hebbronville where we had to haul water. Not fun. We feed from February till October about 9 months plus or minus all depends.


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## Main Frame 8 (Mar 16, 2007)

Inclement weather on either end of the spectrum doesn't phase those that love it.................whether you're on a $1,000 budget or $1,000,000 budget. Having a deer lease to get away and recharge my body's batteries is worth way more to me than what I can afford. 95% of my enjoyment with it does not include killing a **** thing. We might complain about hot/cold/rain, etc while we are there but we'd pay tenfold to have it when we're not.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Main Frame 8 said:


> Inclement weather on either end of the spectrum doesn't phase those that love it.................whether you're on a $1,000 budget or $1,000,000 budget. Having a deer lease to get away and recharge my body's batteries is worth way more to me than what I can afford. 95% of my enjoyment with it does not include killing a **** thing. We might complain about hot/cold/rain, etc while we are there but we'd pay tenfold to have it when we're not.


X2 Our lease is for our enjoyment. We are not selling a thing.


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## Bukkskin (Oct 21, 2009)

hjm said:


> bringing a dozer out for 2 weeks. Digging at least 2, new tanks. 100â€™x50â€™ and 10â€™ deep. Might as well stay busy killing time before deer season.


That's the ticket, ask your ranch owner to keep digging them until you have one for at least every 500 acres and not right on the fenceline.
Deer shouldn't have to walk more than a half mile for water. Imho of course.


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## hjm (May 8, 2016)

Bukkskin said:


> That's the ticket, ask your ranch owner to keep digging them until you have one for at least every 500 acres and not right on the fenceline.
> Deer shouldn't have to walk more than a half mile for water. Imho of course.


I try to bring a dozer out every year to do some type of improvement. Right now between our feed stations with the water and the lakes/ small satellite tanks we have the deer don't have to go too far. I am trying to prepare for a major drought.


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## hjm (May 8, 2016)

Whitebassfisher said:


> Can you give examples of textbook teaching that is wrong? Not arguing, I really want to know. A very simplified version of what I think y'all do is allow the deer to reach maturity, which is very rare in most areas, and give them an endless amount of quality feed and water. This requires time, work, and lots of money. People such as myself benefit from what y'all do, because it is awe inspiring to be honest. That big old buck just does something .....


Sure no problem. I will give you a couple examples and if you have any questions we can discuss.

Proper or comfortable deer density on a South Tx ranch. 
Harvesting does
Harvesting 8 points
Management deer- what is a mgmt deer? 
Age to harvest trophy deer
How many trophies do you harvest on a ranch? #/ acreage 
Carrying capacity based on range conditions

All of the above are major topics and are very important. If I would have listened to my fellow biologists or wildlife consultants when I started managing my lease I would have shot it out the first year. Most are way to aggressive and they go by numbers, not true data collected in the field. 1 helicopter survey a year and some aggressive harvesting is not going to do the right thing for the herd or the ranch, IMHO. I am very, very conservative. We really don't shoot does, I believe there is no such thing as too many deer, Just feed them more if you have too many deer or think you do. I also disagree with the majority of the things we learned in regards to harvesting management deer. Often times a lot of deer are killed before they have the chance to reach their full potential. 
I tell my landowners there are 2 ways to manage deer. You can manage a ranch to produce enough sub par deer for the kids and grandkids to shoot, you'll see a good amount of deer and your feed bill will be tolerable. Or.. you can let any buck that shows 1 sign of potential walk, feed more than you ever imagined you would feed, let your trophies get 7-9 years old, then you'll be on a "growing 200" deer plan". Thats not for everyone and not everyone has that kind of budget to support the plan and thats ok, do whatever makes you happy.


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## Bukkskin (Oct 21, 2009)

hjm said:


> I try to bring a dozer out every year to do some type of improvement. Right now between our feed stations with the water and the lakes/ small satellite tanks we have the deer don't have to go too far. I am trying to prepare for a major drought.


Good deal. I figure we are about due for a drought.


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## Cynoscion (Jun 4, 2009)

Bukkskin said:


> Good deal. I figure we are about due for a drought.


We are in one here for sure. Iâ€™ve kept rainfall records on this place since I started here 18 years ago and this is the driest year I have records for so far. We are sitting at 5.3â€ year to date. 2011 is a close second and we had 6.5â€ in the same timeframe. We finished 2011 with 14.5â€ so letâ€™s hope and pray we do better than that this year. This weekend and next week look promising. We need it bad if weâ€™re going to have any kind of fawn crop at all.


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## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

hjm said:


> Sure no problem. I will give you a couple examples and if you have any questions we can discuss......
> 
> ....We really don't shoot does, I believe there is no such thing as too many deer, Just feed them more if you have too many deer or think you do. I also disagree with the majority of the things we learned in regards to harvesting management deer. Often times a lot of deer are killed before they have the chance to reach their full potential.
> ......


The above I guess sums it up. Probably most game managers run out of time or money before they get to what you and Brett do.


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## Cynoscion (Jun 4, 2009)

Iâ€™ve said it on here many times before. There are quite a few ranches growing as good or better deer than what we will ever see posted on message boards and/or entered in contests. Most biologists that have been successful at growing extremely good deer choose not to advertise their success and also choose to keep low deer densities bc it is what is best for the range. Feed lot conditions and deer living off of feed are not scenarios most biologists agree with for multiple reasons but as was stated above, whatever makes you happy.


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## 2Ws (Jun 28, 2016)

Cynoscion said:


> Iâ€™ve said it on here many times before. There are quite a few ranches growing as good or better deer than what we will ever see posted on message boards and/or entered in contests. Most biologists that have been successful at growing extremely good deer choose not to advertise their success and also choose to keep low deer densities bc it is what is best for the range. Feed lot conditions and deer living off of feed are not scenarios most biologists agree with for multiple reasons but as was stated above, whatever makes you happy.


^^^^^^^^^^yep^^^^^^^^^^


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## Cynoscion (Jun 4, 2009)

For the record, I think Main Frame 8 has the best avatar on 2cool


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

I have to agree. Gonna cause me to get something that yall will appreciate.


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## hjm (May 8, 2016)

Cynoscion said:


> Iâ€™ve said it on here many times before. There are quite a few ranches growing as good or better deer than what we will ever see posted on message boards and/or entered in contests. Most biologists that have been successful at growing extremely good deer choose not to advertise their success and also choose to keep low deer densities bc it is what is best for the range. Feed lot conditions and deer living off of feed are not scenarios most biologists agree with for multiple reasons but as was stated above, whatever makes you happy.


I agree with you on the posting. We do not post a lot of our deer and we do not enter contests with them. Its just really not our thing. We choose to keep a high deer density and nearly all biologists would say we have too many deer but we never let our feeders go empty and our land/feed station ratio is abnormally high. Our pasture is in great shape as well, despite the dry conditions we are in good shape. Luis checked feeders today - report says we will need 8 tons tomorrow. A couple more months of heavy feeding and we will slow down.


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## hjm (May 8, 2016)

Live from the ranch. Luis just delivered one of our new 2,000lb all season feeders. We are adding 4 more this month. He’s heading back to town to get more feed. I am wishing I was out there instead of in my office


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Looking good I was hoping you would show some rain. Nice feeder


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## hjm (May 8, 2016)

It’s truing to rain


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## hjm (May 8, 2016)

Live from the ranch- still filling feeder. Deer were literally waiting for them to finish so they could jump in the pen. It’s pretty dry folks, we are hoping the weather man is right about this rain.


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## Hayniedude24 (Jun 15, 2016)

Cynoscion said:


> For the record, I think Main Frame 8 has the best avatar on 2cool


Iâ€™ve said the same thing for a long time.


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## Trkins33 (Apr 10, 2008)

hjm said:


> Itâ€™s worth it for us. My passion/ hobby is growing big deer. Itâ€™s not that much extra work to put water out every couple of weeks. In the area I hunt we do not have a water well so our deer rely on surface water or the water we provide. We have a high density and spend a lot of $ on feed so it would be a shame to miss an important step in the equation. Brett Holden and a few other guys I know understand how important it is to have water paired with your supplemental feeding program.


I understand it 100%....your doing a bad ***** job.


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## hjm (May 8, 2016)

Trkins33 said:


> I understand it 100%....your doing a bad ***** job.


Thank you! Looks like we got some rain last night and early this morning. I haven't received the totals yet but I am hoping for at least an inch. I will take what we can get!


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

Hope it got you. Lots of places need rain right now.


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## hjm (May 8, 2016)

WillieT said:


> Hope it got you. Lots of places need rain right now.


4" so far. We are in good shape now!


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## hjm (May 8, 2016)

4 more 2,000lb feeders heading to the ranch.


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