# The Good, Bad and Ugly of Low Water Pickups



## Bigdsduty (Jul 9, 2008)

Somewhat interested in getting one on my lower unit and am wanting to know the above. I'm really concerned about injesting grass, shell, debris, etc. How often does this happen to you and how do you fix it when you are on the water. I have a Honda 225 and a Tran Cat and want to be able to jack it all the way up at any speed.

Thanks

Jason


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## ESCB Factory (Apr 30, 2006)

Before I ran Merc's, I ran Yamaha (TRP). The Yamaha TRP side water intakes would get cloged while running in areas of floating grass. 

After running Mercury Sportmasters for 5 years now, it is my opinion the water intake placemant on this grearcase is perfect.

Most aftermarket LWP are located in the same general area.

All I need now is a Sportmaster w/ TRP...

We recently installed a custom LWP on a 250HO E-Tec. No external fittings and hoses used at SCB. Check out the cavo plate. Works extremely well. 

Also a pic of the Sportmaster.


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## Bigdsduty (Jul 9, 2008)

*SCB*

Thanks Eric, one for the good.

Anyone else.

Jason


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## ESCB Factory (Apr 30, 2006)

Aftermarket LWP's may blister, and need repainting after a few years. 

I guess that could be the ugly side of istalling a LWP.


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## Bigdsduty (Jul 9, 2008)

*SCB LWP*

I can handle the refinishing and painting every so often, I'm worried about what I'm sucking up when I'd be running shallow.


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## puddle shuttle (Apr 27, 2007)

I installed one on my lower unit. However, it's definitely easier and cheaper to send it to Bob's machine shop and have it installed. I mainly fish the marsh and flats and I haven't had a problem picking up any grass, shell or mud. I can take off and run with the jack plate all the way up and have had zero problems with over heating. IMO, it is one of the best upgrades you can install on a flats boat and i will have one on any outboard i may have in the future.


Eric, Very nice job on the E-Tec LWP clean and neat


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## fishnfool (Jul 23, 2004)

Eric,

How did the ETEC do with the LWP?


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## ESCB Factory (Apr 30, 2006)

It's runs great. Upper 60's w/ 26". Strong mid-range.

The next water test I will pitch up to 28" and get some MPH.

Still learning, and dailing in the E-Tec.


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## Bigdsduty (Jul 9, 2008)

*Puddle Shuttle*

Puddle,

Thanks for the response and the pics. The areas in your pics are exactly what I'm talking about, plus going shallower than that in sandy/muddy areas as I have a tendency to want to explore and see where I can go. I normally won't explore at high speed just barely on plane and normally I can't get my motor as high as I would like when I'm cruising around looking for fish.

BTW, great job on the garage custom work. Is that what they call a Bob's grassmaster cone? I could install myself with ease as I have multiple welders/experience and access to some great epoxy's and marine sealants that I think would work better then some companies use, but I'm not sure about having the hose that Bob's uses, but it seems to work for most people. I like the sleeker look that some others use.
I'm getting of the main subject. Another vote for good by Puddle.

Anyone else?

Thanks for all of your help so far.

Jason


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## Bigdsduty (Jul 9, 2008)

fishnfool said:


> Eric,
> 
> How did the ETEC do with the LWP?


Josh,

Did your old Merc have the side pickups plus a couple of nose pickups?

Jason


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## fishnfool (Jul 23, 2004)

Yeah, it had both. I could run it jacked up to 6 as long as I kept at half throttle or so. The pressure would drop to about 5 with the jackplate up that high. The guy that bought it told me he plugeed the side holes and now can even idle with it on 6 with no overheating issues - nice! I'm putting the sportmaster on my SCB.


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## Bigdsduty (Jul 9, 2008)

fishnfool said:


> Yeah, it had both. I could run it jacked up to 6 as long as I kept at half throttle or so. The pressure would drop to about 5 with the jackplate up that high. The guy that bought it told me he plugeed the side holes and now can even idle with it on 6 with no overheating issues - nice! I'm putting the sportmaster on my SCB.


Did you decide what HP your going with?

Jason


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## fishnfool (Jul 23, 2004)

Haven't written the check yet but found a good deal and am most likely going to buy a 300XS with 1.62 SM lower unit - should scream!


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## Bigdsduty (Jul 9, 2008)

*Fishnfool / SCB*



fishnfool said:


> Haven't written the check yet but found a good deal and am most likely going to buy a 300XS with 1.62 SM lower unit - should scream!


Make sure to have Eric put seatbelts in that thing, you'll need them.:smile:


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## Sonnysmarine (Mar 18, 2007)

Sweet looking set up ERIC!!!!!! 
You doing in in house or having some one do it for you???


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## lazzer65 (May 25, 2006)

*Cons*

...Increased water pump usage. After a year or so...the filler will start comming off in chunks around the nose cone.

Personally I don't think you gain that much of an advantage over a stock gear case..but that's just my opinion.

I did try it once and after loosing water pressure in a short time, put a new impeller in the water pump and it was CHEWED up from the shell and sand. If you're worried only about the grass deal...as soon as you clear the grass...stop and run the motor in reverse for a few seconds, that usually clears it.

Ro Yale owns Carbon Fiber Technologies in Houston. Depending on his workload, he'd be someone local to install it for you.

Hope this helps.

Dale


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## millertym_1978 (Apr 13, 2006)

I have Bobs low water pickup on my Johnson 120HP on my Boatright and have not had one single problem. Can run with jackplate all the way up with no problems. Just be carefull running with your jackplate all the way up if you need to turn quickly........


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## Bigdsduty (Jul 9, 2008)

*Pro's / Con's*

Okay well there is a con about eating through water pumps.

Also another happy user.

What are my chances that I'm going to get stranded because of this thing, that's what I'm really worried about. Does the plus outweigh the minus???


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## lazzer65 (May 25, 2006)

*Big*

I don't think it will leave you stranded...But the usage of water pumps can be attributed to the area you boat I guess. If you run a lot in areas with shell the low water pick-up is going to ingest more than the side pick-up gear case would. That has been and was my experience.

When you start seeing a drop in water pressure readings..it will be time to take a look see. You can do a water pump on a mercury gearcase for what...65.00 and you doing the labor. How much does it cost to service a honda lower unit because I don't know.

Low water pick-ups are great for specific applications...I know Bob's had a "sportsman" style cone they offered - that's the one I got for my then fishing boat - and they did the install. As I said...it chewed thru impellers pretty quick and as soon as the paint was chipped, the salt started to get under the epoxy and attacking the case alluminum. The epoxy started comming off. Granted..the epoxy means nothing really..it is just to smooth between the weld and shape of the nose cone...it will still function with just the nose cone and no epoxy..will just be an eye sore.

The real purpose of nose cones came from the performance side of things..elongating the bullet for entry into the water in hi-speed applications...that and the stock "fishing" case would cause a void of air in front of the prop causing a "blow-out" at high speeds. Not fun.

Anyway...take this as just a conversation from what I have see on the subject. Others may have had great success with them and I may just be the only one speaking negatively on them.

One more thing...those little bits of shell.....they will be getting into the water passages of your motor. You may find yourself pulling off the water tattle tale with the lower unit off trying to get the shell out of the water lines when your motor won't pee water anylonger. Been there and done that too.

Best of luck and happy boating.

Dale


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## Bigdsduty (Jul 9, 2008)

*Lazzer*

Thanks for the honest experience and opinion Lazzer, that's exactly what I'm looking for. Real world experience. That's what's great about the internet and all of you guys. You are all very helpful and willing to share your opinion, expertise and experiences. I appreciate all that you have told me and it couldn't hurt for me to hear some more.

Thanks

Jason


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## grinderman (Jun 22, 2004)

fishnfool said:


> Yeah, it had both. I could run it jacked up to 6 as long as I kept at half throttle or so. The pressure would drop to about 5 with the jackplate up that high. The guy that bought it told me he plugeed the side holes and now can even idle with it on 6 with no overheating issues - nice! I'm putting the sportmaster on my SCB.


I'm the guy that bought Fishnfool's boat. Based on some research and some advise from some people on this board, i plugged the top 4 holes on each side of the lower unit. I had wanted to add a Bob's nose cone, but losing the extended warranty canceled that thought, at least until 2012.

The plugged holes allow me to run the engine at idle at 6 on the jackplate (plus the engine is mounted high on the jackplate-somewhere around 3rd-4th hole from top), so basically enough prop in the water to move the boat. Before, had problems (sporatically) with the engine not pumping water at idle due to the top holes out of the water and sucking air-problem solved. At 4-5000 rpm, it will run on 6 on the JP and maintain enough water PSi to keep the engine temp gauge just above normal operating temp.

2 boats ago, I had a 1990 175 Mariner EFI that we had Bob's install a low water pick up on. Ran it that way for 5 years without a single problem. Water PSi improved at all operating ranges and rpms. Never had a problem with clogged grass, mud, sand, etc.


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## Bigdsduty (Jul 9, 2008)

*Grinder*

Thanks for the input Grinder. I'm probably going to do it especially since I'll still keep my warranty. h:


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## dhemm (Apr 30, 2007)

I have the same combination, 21 trancat honda 225
water pressure at start and high jackplate was tempermental so I had Bobs Low water pickup installed. While this helped the Honda was still tempermental about losing pressure.
I have now installed a washdown pump with pickup thru bottom of hull.
I can now run with half of prop out of water with pump on , plus I have washdown pump to clean up the mud off the deck instead of bucket.
A little extreme but with the height these motors are mounted on these cats and the inability of the Honda to hold the prime at low RPMs with the plate up, I no longer have to worry about it .
This had been my only sorespot about the rig.
Great shallow water capability floats in 6 or 7 inches but the motors are designed for more conventional setup and when raised up you are having to siphon the water up when starting.
Now the washdown does that part and I have water every where before I start it and I think I could actually run the motor with the motor out of the water. Don't have a lot of trips yet on setup but so far all is positive , no negatives.


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## Haynie79 (Oct 30, 2008)

grinderman said:


> I'm the guy that bought Fishnfool's boat. Based on some research and some advise from some people on this board, i plugged the top 4 holes on each side of the lower unit. I had wanted to add a Bob's nose cone, but losing the extended warranty canceled that thought, at least until 2012.
> 
> The plugged holes allow me to run the engine at idle at 6 on the jackplate (plus the engine is mounted high on the jackplate-somewhere around 3rd-4th hole from top), so basically enough prop in the water to move the boat. Before, had problems (sporatically) with the engine not pumping water at idle due to the top holes out of the water and sucking air-problem solved. At 4-5000 rpm, it will run on 6 on the JP and maintain enough water PSi to keep the engine temp gauge just above normal operating temp.
> 
> 2 boats ago, I had a 1990 175 Mariner EFI that we had Bob's install a low water pick up on. Ran it that way for 5 years without a single problem. Water PSi improved at all operating ranges and rpms. Never had a problem with clogged grass, mud, sand, etc.


I am having the same problem with my 09 Mercury 225 Optimax, if I have the motor above 4 1/2" I loose my pressure. So if I understand you correctly the nose pick up is plenty for the motor at all speeds? What did you use to plug the top holes?


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## speckhead (Jun 1, 2004)

If you are going to put one on, make sure all of your seals are in good shape. They do exactly what they say, increase water pressure. I towed a boat in one day that had two weeks on a Bobs and blew up his motor. Not Bob's fault, the engine probably had bad seals and the extra pressure did it in.


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## Pescados Locos Tony (Feb 6, 2007)

I have a BOB's Low water pick up on my 50 yammi, never had a problem with it!!!! I bought the boat with it on, so I cant really compare it to stock but I can say Ive been crazy skinny with it and never lost pressure.


P.S. the pick up is on a 13' flats master with a jack plate so skinny happens alot :biggrin:

Tony


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## Bigdsduty (Jul 9, 2008)

*Low water pickup done deal*

Well I went ahead and did it. I should have my lower unit back later this week. I didn't go the Bob's route. I went a more custom, racing route. Not that my boat is a race boat, but the Honda lower unit needs all the streamlining and water to prop delivery help it can get. I'll post pics as soon as I can.


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## Priority1 (Aug 21, 2005)

*not just nose cone only on Merc*



Haynie79 said:


> ............. So if I understand you correctly the nose pick up is plenty for the motor at all speeds?...............


"PLUS" the other four lower holes on each side of the gear case.......
He said he "plugged the top FOUR holes" (I believe there are eight on each side in addition to the four on the nose cone...If its a Merc)


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## Bird_Dog (Apr 7, 2008)

I plugged the top four holes on my merc and it has made a big difference when running with my motor jacked up.



Haynie79 said:


> I am having the same problem with my 09 Mercury 225 Optimax, if I have the motor above 4 1/2" I loose my pressure. So if I understand you correctly the nose pick up is plenty for the motor at all speeds? What did you use to plug the top holes?


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## Haynie79 (Oct 30, 2008)

Bird_Dog said:


> I plugged the top four holes on my merc and it has made a big difference when running with my motor jacked up.


What did you use to plug the holes?


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## Bird_Dog (Apr 7, 2008)

5/16" x 1/4" set screws & BLUE loctite. Get a 5/16" tap from Lowes or Home Depot. Run the tap in maybe a thread or two but not all the way through. Dab a little locktite on the set screw and screw it in. Works great



Haynie79 said:


> What did you use to plug the holes?


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## Priority1 (Aug 21, 2005)

*plugging holes*

I made removable covers out of HDPE and used SS sex screws and all thread


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## txrigger (Jan 22, 2009)

*yes*



Haynie79 said:


> I am having the same problem with my 09 Mercury 225 Optimax, if I have the motor above 4 1/2" I loose my pressure. So if I understand you correctly the nose pick up is plenty for the motor at all speeds? What did you use to plug the top holes?


5/16 pipe plugs!I've got em at my office if you like we can install in minutes!


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## Bird_Dog (Apr 7, 2008)

takes about 10 minutes max



txrigger said:


> 5/16 pipe plugs!I've got em at my office if you like we can install in minutes!


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## txrigger (Jan 22, 2009)

*yes*



Bigdsduty said:


> Well I went ahead and did it. I should have my lower unit back later this week. I didn't go the Bob's route. I went a more custom, racing route. Not that my boat is a race boat, but the Honda lower unit needs all the streamlining and water to prop delivery help it can get. I'll post pics as soon as I can.


Did ya send it to Titus?He does great work!!


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## Haynie79 (Oct 30, 2008)

Thanks for all the info guys I am going to try it out.


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## Bigdsduty (Jul 9, 2008)

*TXRigger*



txrigger said:


> Did ya send it to Titus?He does great work!!


TX,

Yep I sent it to Titus. He does awesome work. He's more expensive as you probbly know but you get what you pay for, and Titus has got the knowledge, expertise and proof to back up his work. He's extremely well known and respected on the drag racing and Bass circuit. I had him take pictures throughout the process for me; so once I get the unit back I'll post the pics in a new thread. He is also endorsed by Honda, so his work is approved and cannot be used against me by Honda. Which is added peace of mind.


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## ESCB Factory (Apr 30, 2006)

Here's a pic of a Honda 225 w/ Titus LWP. 

Titus also builds the Sabre gear case for Honda, as a dealer option. The Sabre is a coned gear case, but does not have low water pick-up.


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## HTM (Dec 27, 2007)

*LWP*

If you have 6ft water to get up you don't need to worry about it Big D



Bigdsduty said:


> Somewhat interested in getting one on my lower unit and am wanting to know the above. I'm really concerned about injesting grass, shell, debris, etc. How often does this happen to you and how do you fix it when you are on the water. I have a Honda 225 and a Tran Cat and want to be able to jack it all the way up at any speed.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Jason


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## HTM (Dec 27, 2007)

*Remove*

Can you explain a little more how you constructed it?

How long have you used your removable cover (hours)...?
What is your top speeds....?
What did it do your water PSI during top Speed?
What kind of motor do you have and boat?



Priority1 said:


> I made removable covers out of HDPE and used SS sex screws and all thread


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## HTM (Dec 27, 2007)

*Bird Dog*

Big difference what did your water PSI do at full Throttle?



Bird_Dog said:


> I plugged the top four holes on my merc and it has made a big difference when running with my motor jacked up.


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## crawfishking (Apr 23, 2007)

*More Honest Experience*

This might not apply to many but I do have one problem. I have an '03 Merc 250 Opti Max XS with the sport lower unit. It comes factory with LWPs. They work great, I have great water pressure and it stays high when my jack plate is completely raised. The problem I have is mainly due to my hull design. My tunnel is about 10" wide and when I turn on plane my pickups turn outside the tunnel and I they pickup dirty water or no water at all. Since the pickups are at the point of the gear case (or cone) they are further forward than the other style of pickups which would still be in clean water. The lower my jack plate is the less this is a problem but it is a pain to me since I always run with my plate all the way up. My engine will get hot if I try to make a full turn when the motor is up. My biggest fear is that I will get into an area that I have not been, realize it is too shallow but it is too late because I can't turn around. I have also had some bad problems with picking up sand, shell and grass that has wrecked my water pump housing prematurely allowing water into my gear case.


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## Priority1 (Aug 21, 2005)

HTM

-It is shaped (by hand ...... from High-Density Polyethylene) using belt sanders, grinders, drill presses, etc&#8230;..simple shop tools

Have used it for 150+ hrs so far

It has no noticeable effect on top speed on my boat (maybe on an SCB) 53 mph

The only effect it has on water pressure is to help maintain a higher pressure at extremely high motor setting positions. 

It is installed on a Mercury 225 that has a factory low-water pickup on the gear case


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## Bird_Dog (Apr 7, 2008)

About 16 psi - If I have the JP on 6 I get about 10psi



HTM said:


> Big difference what did your water PSI do at full Throttle?


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## HTM (Dec 27, 2007)

*Thanks*

Bird Dog and Pritority One Thanks for the help. I am going to attempt to make a cover and at 73 MPH I'll let you know how PSI does



Bird_Dog said:


> About 16 psi - If I have the JP on 6 I get about 10psi


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## ESCB Factory (Apr 30, 2006)

HTM said:


> Bird Dog and Pritority One Thanks for the help. I am going to attempt to make a cover and at 73 MPH I'll let you know how PSI does


There's another way to jack the Torque Master sky high with out a nose cone or scoop covers.

Call me or come by the shop to check it out.

Eric
979 299-8172


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## Bigdsduty (Jul 9, 2008)

*SCB Pickup*

Eric,

Would that be a transom pickup?


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