# Mountain Lion Problem in Rio Grande Valley



## Mschuste (Jan 27, 2006)

I live RIGHT next to a Refuge in the Rio Grande Valley. We have lost around 10 deer in the last month... This ranges from infants to over 175lbs. We know it is a mountain lion due to the fact that there have been bite marks on the neck, dragging of the prey, and breaking of necks. Their butts are eaten and many organs are missing. They are also covered up with leaves and brush that is near by. What to do? I dont want to hire anyone to come and shot the mountain lion. Do you think if I Call at night that might work? Or how do I go about handling the situation without ******* off the refuge. I want the thing GONE and not relocated. I hate Mountain Lions and everything they stand for...I can't wait to make a nice mount out of it, thats for sure!! Any help would be GREAT!!


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## Javadrinker (Feb 13, 2008)

it used to be usda-aphis-adc .. call local number in SA...if you have a lion problem they have a lion trapper..or used to
if you are that close to the refuge you really do want to utilize this option first..otherwise the bleeding hearts ...not to mention usfws ...


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## shanegair (Feb 17, 2005)

are you sure its not a Chupacabra?


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## Mschuste (Jan 27, 2006)

shanegair said:


> are you sure its not a Chupacabra?


Not really in a good mood to joke around...I don't think you would like it if you lost thousands of dollars of livestock... I am not trying to be rude, it just is a major problem.


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## 11andy11 (Aug 12, 2004)

A lions range is pretty expansive. If it is a healthy cat you might not see him again for a while. If it continually predates cattle then it is likely an older cat that my have some problems ie. broken or worn down teeth. Your best bet is to either watch a fresh kill as they can return often to feed or find someone with tracking dogs and see if you can get a good scent off of a fresh kill.


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## James Howell (May 21, 2004)

Since when are deer livestock?


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## 11andy11 (Aug 12, 2004)

I guess if you buy them and stick'em inside a high fence they are.


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## JD761 (Jun 7, 2006)

They're very nomadic, should move on soon. Like said above, if it's an older, or injured cat, it could stay.


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## Javadrinker (Feb 13, 2008)

I believe the deer he is talking about are blackbuck antelope


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## James Howell (May 21, 2004)

gotcha. In that case, stake out the freshest kill and pop the sucker when he comes in. He's on your land, he's considered a varmint/predator by TPWD.



Javadrinker said:


> I believe the deer he is talking about are blackbuck antelope


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## TX CHICKEN (Jun 4, 2004)

10 deer in a month is a lot even for a full grown lion--possibly more than one? They are tough to catch--as mentioned before the best way would be dogs or sitting over a fresh kill. It is perfectly legal to shoot one (not sure about using the dogs?)and would make an awesome mount.


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## Javadrinker (Feb 13, 2008)

yes it is legal to shoot them, and I think dogs are legal in TX .. but not sure of that, it is the proximity to the refuge.


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## reelthreat (Jul 11, 2006)

We also raise deer... we have not had a problem; however, I have heard of many breeders that have. One way that I have heard is to get a live goat and tie it to a tree in its feeding area and wait till he comes out and BOOM. From what I hear they are very difficult to catch in a trap and almost only eat what they kill (hence the live goat).


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## Mschuste (Jan 27, 2006)

Just for the record, we don't shoot the blackbuck or other exotics...we don't need to anyway with all the killings that are happening...Thanks for the postive input. I am going to have to try the live goat thing just to say I have done it. There is no point in dogs since we have such a small property. (Unless the Refuge wants me to take out all their cats....Which might be fun (just kidding)


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## Josh5 (Jun 27, 2007)

At the feedstore in Rocksprings, they have a mounted Lion. They said they put a live goat (or deer/bb in your case) inside a cage. When they see scratching marks around the cage, they then set traps. Then check traps daily. (keep feeding the bait  ) That is how they catch them.


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## redfish bayrat (Feb 17, 2006)

James Howell said:


> Since when are deer livestock?


Since selective breeding, large amount of $$$$ for feed, high fences, and trophy fees for hunts began. You can also get an ag exemption on land for developing it for wildlife. My cousin is doing that on his ranch outside Del Rio. He has no cattle, goats, or other traditional livestock on his place.


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## James Howell (May 21, 2004)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but whitetail deer, even under high fence, selective breeding, and on a feeding program, are still property of the state of Texas. I know about the wildlife exemption for tax purposes, also. However, none of this applies to blackbuck antelope, as they would be classified livestock/exotics.



redfish bayrat said:


> Since selective breeding, large amount of $$$$ for feed, high fences, and trophy fees for hunts began. You can also get an ag exemption on land for developing it for wildlife. My cousin is doing that on his ranch outside Del Rio. He has no cattle, goats, or other traditional livestock on his place.


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## Mschuste (Jan 27, 2006)

I believe that is Correct. whitetail deer are only the property of Texas. 
However, is that the case for Oklahoma, Louisiana and those places? If not, if someone brings a deer in from those places into Texas, does Texas then own the deer? If that makes sense to anyone...

Anyway, back on Topic....Anyone else have any ideas. If I do a Call will that work? Think the Big Cat will come to it? Screaming CottonTail or something.


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## Javadrinker (Feb 13, 2008)

maybe, I haven't heard of it working ... but then I haven't looked into it either. The live goat bait does work.


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## TX CHICKEN (Jun 4, 2004)

This website has some info on lion calling-

http://www.predatormastersforums.com/mountainlions.shtml

http://www.predatormastersforums.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php


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## shanegair (Feb 17, 2005)

Mschuste said:


> Not really in a good mood to joke around...I don't think you would like it if you lost thousands of dollars of livestock... I am not trying to be rude, it just is a major problem.


My apologizes, was not a good time for a stupid attempt at humor.

Shane


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## reelthreat (Jul 11, 2006)

I forgot to post this in my original thread; but, the best goat to use is one that has not been weened yet. They will Baaaaa all day long looking for its mom which will call the lion in.


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## redfish bayrat (Feb 17, 2006)

"We also raise deer... we have not had a problem; however, I have heard of many breeders that have"

Property of the state in name only. This sounds like livestock to me.


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## Mschuste (Jan 27, 2006)

shanegair said:


> My apologizes, was not a good time for a stupid attempt at humor.
> 
> Shane


No Worries. I was NOT in a good mood this morning. IF it was anything else, it would have been funny. No hard feelings at all.


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## Bill C (May 23, 2004)

It is not a very high probability but make sure it's not a jaguar. They do wander in from time to time.


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## reelthreat (Jul 11, 2006)

redfish bayrat said:


> "We also raise deer... we have not had a problem; however, I have heard of many breeders that have"
> 
> Property of the state in name only. This sounds like livestock to me.


Yes, we consider them livestock; however, they are considered property of the state of Texas. To sell state "property" you have to apply and receive a captive breeders licence from the state. So, in other words to retain ownership of and sell deer you have to have a licence. It is not illegal to buy deer and raise them in your own pen without a licence but it is illegal to sell them. Also, it is illegal to import deer from other states.


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## Mschuste (Jan 27, 2006)

Great, thanks for the info on that reelthreat. Its only for whitetail...not for blackbuck,axis, fallow or any other exotic animal


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## Fish-a-mon (May 21, 2004)

Not that I'm a tree hugger but what about the Mountain Lion? Does he have to be selective on what it chooses to kill, eat and where? We raise BB, Fallow and WT. We have lost all but one BB to Coyotes before. That the price of raising livestock. Why so much hate to the ML? He is trying to survive just like you and I. Good luck in trying to get it. Remember they hunt more at night. They normally see you before you see them in the day. Hunting a fresh kill would be a start if you do not have a goat.


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## Johnny9 (Sep 7, 2005)

*Trapper explained*

Hunted in New Mexico on the Diamond A Land & Cattle Company before Ted Turner bought it. Trapped was hired to catch mountain lions and explained that a lion must kill a deer once a week to survive. That's 52 deer a year.


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## reelthreat (Jul 11, 2006)

Mschuste said:


> Great, thanks for the info on that reelthreat. Its only for whitetail...not for blackbuck,axis, fallow or any other exotic animal


You are correct. Sorry for not clarifying that. My post above only applies to whitetail only and not exotics.

PM sent about an idea to keep predetors out that has worked for us.


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## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

Mschuste said:


> I believe that is Correct. whitetail deer are only the property of Texas.
> However, is that the case for Oklahoma, Louisiana and those places? If not, if someone brings a deer in from those places into Texas, does Texas then own the deer? If that makes sense to anyone...


As soon as it crosses the State line it belongs to the State if it is a whitetail, regardless of where it came from.

May try this
http://www.king-cart.com/cgi-bin/cart.cgi?store=apc&product=Audio+Tapes+-+Cougar&exact_match

Or contact these guys who made that cassette

http://www.burnhamcalls.com/


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## Mschuste (Jan 27, 2006)

I will look into a cassette like that one...looks great


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## saltaholic (Feb 19, 2005)

maybe you should call this guy!


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## stxhunter (May 19, 2006)

Sent you a PM!!!


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## stxhunter (May 19, 2006)




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## BF (Jun 7, 2007)

goats work good ;but use a live chicken instead. We have a mule deer lease in the Glass Mountains out in West Texas have alot of cats. Goverment man uses dogs aswell at night he stakes out a chicken & hunts over it


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## listos? (Aug 22, 2006)

Talked to a ranch manager the other day...evidently they had a real bad Coyote problem and fed several live chickens gopher poison. They tied the live chickens up strategically around the property and within the week had buzzards and Kara-kara everywhere perched on dead yotes. Poison had no effect on the chickens but did a number on the dogs that ate them. I can't testify to the results or go on to say if it would have any result on a cat...who knows...


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## explorer05 (Jun 22, 2006)

I think it is a crying shame that you would want to kill one of these animals. We need to protect these rare animals, not kill them. Same for Bobcats, lynx, etc. I have hunted all my life, and would never think of killing a cat, bear, wolf.


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## dknut (Jul 18, 2006)

Alright.... Who called PETA??



explorer05 said:


> I think it is a crying shame that you would want to kill one of these animals. We need to protect these rare animals, not kill them. Same for Bobcats, lynx, etc. I have hunted all my life, and would never think of killing a cat, bear, wolf.


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## TX CHICKEN (Jun 4, 2004)

Not sure if this was serious but rare is definitely not correct--elusive but definitely not rare. I myself have no interest in killing one but if I had any serious $ invested in a deer lease I would shoot it in a heart beat!


explorer05 said:


> I think it is a crying shame that you would want to kill one of these animals. We need to protect these *rare* animals, not kill them. Same for Bobcats, lynx, etc. I have hunted all my life, and would never think of killing a cat, bear, wolf.


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## deerdude2000 (Feb 17, 2006)

*Lion*

I have a ranch in freer and have a lion problem the gov trapper told me about the goat thing said it works good luck


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## JD761 (Jun 7, 2006)

explorer05 said:


> I think it is a crying shame that you would want to kill one of these animals. We need to protect these rare animals, not kill them. Same for Bobcats, lynx, etc. I have hunted all my life, and would never think of killing a cat, bear, wolf.


Nothing rare at all about bobcats and cougars in Texas! I have no desire to shoot one, but I'm not going to try and push my beliefs on others. The only ones that should stay off limits would be the ocelot, jagurandi, and the jaguar. Less common species, making a comeback in Texas. As far as bobcats, too many of them, IMO.


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## saltaholic (Feb 19, 2005)

You SHOULD NOT SHOOT IT!!!

You should let me shoot it!:walkingsm


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## Spec-Rig.006 (Nov 2, 2007)

Oh my ... well ... in addition, you might want to set up a camera over your bait. If you know what time kitty comes to dinner, you know what time kitty goes to "sleep" ... a nice tactic used on leopards in Africa ... however, trapping is your best option. It's nearly impossible to take one of things from a blind, they'll circle your position everytime and catch wind.

Sucks the place is to small for dogs, it makes for one heck of an exciting hunt ... esp. in the snow ... rare animals, ha ha ha ha ha, so rare that the State traps and participates in a relocation population program, ah the mis-informed.

Happy hunting, 
~Spec


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## deano77511 (Feb 2, 2005)

one answer compucaller2


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## Deputy U.S. Marshal (Jul 6, 2006)

Funny you guys are talking about this. Just recieved a copy of Texas Parks and Wildlife with this very topic on the cover. And there was no mention of them being rare in these parts.


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## Lezz Go (Jun 27, 2006)

*Ummmm What?*



explorer05 said:


> I think it is a crying shame that you would want to kill one of these animals. We need to protect these rare animals, not kill them. Same for Bobcats, lynx, etc. I have hunted all my life, and would never think of killing a cat, bear, wolf.


You're kidding right?


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## RogerB (Oct 11, 2005)

Deputy U.S. Marshal said:


> Funny you guys are talking about this. Just recieved a copy of Texas Parks and Wildlife with this very topic on the cover. And there was no mention of them being rare in these parts.


last time I talked with any game warden about this - they aren't rare, and aren't endangered. In fact, depending on WHO you talk to they're either a big problem or are becoming a problem. These cats have been seen and sighted in South Texas for several years now. A few years ago one was killed in Tilden on the ranch owned by Nolan Ryan. TPWD wants you to tell them if you shoot one and where you shot it so they can keep records (some say it's to keep a tally and determine if in fact they need protection or not). I've seen one - but only it's tail as it slipped into the brush line 100 yards or so from where I was sitting and I wasn't fast enough to get the gun in position to shoot. That particular cat had already killed 15 deer on that ranch (low fence) and got a few more from what I understand before it was finally taken down.

I heard one scream one night, not far from San Antonio on a place near Garden Ridge. Want to see a funny site? When that cat screamed there were 6-8 hunters in camp, all sitting around a campfire. All of us decided it was time to go in and go to bed!


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## Chase This! (Jul 20, 2007)

explorer05 said:


> I think it is a crying shame that you would want to kill one of these animals. We need to protect these rare animals, not kill them. Same for Bobcats, lynx, etc. I have hunted all my life, and would never think of killing a cat, bear, wolf.


sad4sm

What some cheese with that wine???

Brandon


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## Javadrinker (Feb 13, 2008)

RogerB said:


> I heard one scream one night, not far from San Antonio on a place near Garden Ridge. Want to see a funny site? When that cat screamed there were 6-8 hunters in camp, all sitting around a campfire. All of us decided it was time to go in and go to bed!


..long time ago heard a tiger scream on a dark night, but nowhere to go...really make you aware


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## RogerB (Oct 11, 2005)

Javadrinker said:


> ..long time ago heard a tiger scream on a dark night, but nowhere to go...really make you aware


yup. It's one of those sounds that'll make your hair stand up for sure!


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## Javadrinker (Feb 13, 2008)

RogerB said:


> yup. It's one of those sounds that'll make your hair stand up for sure!


 Amen and PTL


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## Mschuste (Jan 27, 2006)

I am going to be doing some calling tomorrow night at some point. I talked with acouple of Rangers and they said that they have been seeing a LOT of bobcats....We'll see whats up...

On a side note, i was able to capture 7 deer and moving them tomorrow. So at least thats 7 that WONT be killed by a Cat on my place.


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## RogerB (Oct 11, 2005)

Mschuste said:


> I am going to be doing some calling tomorrow night at some point. I talked with acouple of Rangers and they said that they have been seeing a LOT of bobcats....We'll see whats up...
> 
> On a side note, i was able to capture 7 deer and moving them tomorrow. So at least thats 7 that WONT be killed by a Cat on my place.


good luck!


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## Javadrinker (Feb 13, 2008)

good luck man!


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## Mschuste (Jan 27, 2006)

Thanks, i am going to need it...


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## huntvizsla (Dec 31, 2006)

Anyone read "beast in the garden"? Its a good book on the return of lions to the front range in colorado. It confronts the preservation/conservation/human safety debate, and chronicles what can happen to a city with an unchecked lion population. Could be the close future for many areas of Texas.


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## flyingfish (Mar 21, 2006)

I had a friend in California that worked with their game and fish to kill problem lions in souther Cal. Once they started moving all the housing developments into the hills where the cats were the cats figured out it was a lot easier to hunt pets than game. 

After a few months of eating pets out of backyard they pretty much lost their fear of people. A few attacked kids one summer and game and fish wanted them gone.

He used some of the electric calls at night and said they worked pretty well. He'd call around a fresh kill that the cat had covered. He said if you find one that's partially eaten covered with leaves, etc. you can count on the cat being back within a few nights to have desert.

Good luck.

Gary


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