# Battle over oyster reefs



## Yellow.mouth (May 10, 2013)

Just read this cover article in the sunday chronicle. Given the diverse opinions held by 2cool members seen in the back and forth on the cedar bayou and rollover debate, i would be very interested to hear some thoughts on this topic.


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## Greyter (Nov 1, 2014)

The Liberty-Chambers County Navigation District leasing bay bottom for oyster harvesting ? It's nonsense and the TX Gen. Land Office will rule the lease invalid.


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## duckmania (Jun 3, 2014)

I fish the Aransas/San Antonio/Copano complex. The oyster harvesting especially in Copano is wrecking the bay. That bay needs a little relief, a couple of years or so. San Antonio is holding up pretty well but there are lots of cuts through long time reefs. I visited with a couple of biologist with the Harte Institute once and it really shed a lot of light on what is going on. Hopefully TPWD will step up.


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## tamucc04 (Jun 21, 2011)

I live on Copano and what they do in that bay is insane. Everyday all day during the season you can count 45+ boats just sitting on the shoreline. Not sure how many are across the whole bay. Now you cant tell me they are practicing a responsible and viable harvesting program at that rate.


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## boltmaster (Aug 16, 2011)

Some of the best winter reefs you could wish for in COPANO are ruined and scraped flat now. When the tide was high this past winter the o boats were running almost on top of copano reef and its suffered bad for it. They really need to get them out of there before it's too late.


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## Im Headed South (Jun 28, 2006)

Can you post the article? But going off some of what I understand the folks that lease the reefs become good stewards of them, including putting back the old shells to build them back up and taking care not to over harvest them. Wouldn't make good business scene to do that, would be interested to see the oppositions points. There is not a access issue to any fisherman that wants to fish them, does it say where the money from the leases are going? As far as the over harvesting in the middle coast goes it ties directly into the tremendous amount of reefs that were lost up north during Ike, if leasing the reefs up there leads to them coming back sooner then it may actually help reduce the dependence on the middle coast.


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## [email protected] (May 24, 2004)

*To find the article...*

Google search - Houston Chronicle Oyster Reefs. I just read it. Sounds like a real can of worms. -EJ


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## LaddH (Sep 29, 2011)

This is what the leaseholder has to say.
http://www.oysterstorm.com/


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## Im Headed South (Jun 28, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> Google search - Houston Chronicle Oyster Reefs. I just read it. Sounds like a real can of worms. -EJ


*"To continue reading this story, you will need to be a digital subscriber to HoustonChronicle.com."
*


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

Lots of bad info out there. Commercial oyster harvest does not scrape them flat. 90% of the dredging yields dead shell which is returned back to the reef and provides cultch for next years crop. 

When Hurricane Ike covered up the majority of the oyster reef in East Galveston bay TPWD with some federal money actually paid commercial oystermen to pull bagless dredges over the effected reefs in an effort to provide cultch for the next crop.


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## Greyter (Nov 1, 2014)

Im Headed South said:


> *"To continue reading this story, you will need to be a digital subscriber to HoustonChronicle.com."
> *


See if this works
http://www.houstonchronicle.com/new...ster-reefs-stirs-up-Galveston-Bay-5862016.php


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## barronj (Sep 30, 2013)

still blocked.

Do us a favor and copy/paste the article, please.


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## Greyter (Nov 1, 2014)

I hope this doesn't get me in trouble with the moderators

*Fight over oyster reefs stirs up Galveston Bay*

By Matthew Tresaugue
October 31, 2014 | Updated: October 31, 2014 10:23pm


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J. Patric Schneider, Freelance 
Oyster fishermen, from left, Pascual Plancarte Jr., Victor Mendoza and Capt. Pascual Plancarte dredge for oysters on Galveston Bay in Anahuac.

By Matthew Tresaugue
October 31, 2014 | Updated: October 31, 2014 10:23pm

SMITH POINT - When the time came to name his big idea for Galveston Bay, Tracy Woody chose Sustainable Texas Oyster Resource Management, or STORM, in part because he knew it would cause one.
And he was right.

The fifth-generation oyster fisherman has set off alarms by leasing some 23,000 submerged acres from a navigation district to plant and harvest the prized mollusks. While Woody says his efforts would add ecologically valuable oyster reefs to a bay in need of them, regulators and other fishermen argue that it's nothing more than a land grab that could close waters to the public.
With the oyster season set to open Saturday, the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department has warned Woody that the 6-month-old lease is invalid. The agency also has said game wardens would enforce public access in the disputed areas.
Woody said he wouldn't block any fishermen from the leased areas, for now, but plans to defend his property in court. "There is case law that affirms everything we're trying to do," he said.
This may sound like an obscure conflict. But it's the latest in a series of fierce legal and political battles in Texas over who controls land covered, even only at times, by water.
Over the past decade, property owners have won court cases that granted rights to submerged land in the Gulf of Mexico and weakened public access to Texas beaches.
Texas typically owns bay bottoms. But no one disputes the Chambers-Liberty County Navigation District's ownership of the land it leased to STORM for harvesting oysters.
The district purchased the land from the state in the 1950s, a time of heavy dredging of Galveston Bay's natural reefs. Shell was used for concrete and building materials, among other uses.








Oyster fight The Chambers-Liberty County Navigation District has leased some 2,300 acres of submerged land in Galveston Bay to a private company for planting and harvesting oysters. Texas regulators say the lease is invalid.

In April, the district agreed to a 30-year lease with STORM, which will pay as much as $69,000 a year. The lease gives the company exclusive rights to plant and harvest oysters over a significant portion of the bay - a narrow band that stretches along a northeast inlet to Smith Point and extends west to San Leon in Galveston County. 
_Public oyster beds_
Texas argues that the district does not have the authority to enter into a lease for the harvesting of oysters. Under state law, the district can only lease its holdings for projects tied directly to navigation, wrote William Warnick, general counsel for the Texas General Land Office, the agency that manages public lands and revenue from commercial, mineral and oil and gas leases.
The Texas Parks and Wildlife Department also contends that the property covered by the disputed agreement includes public oyster beds, as well as reefs authorized by the state for private use. 
Galveston Bay is the only place in Texas with state-issued leases for the commercial harvesting of oysters. While the vast majority of the reefs are open to the public, 2,321 acres are controlled by a few private lease-holders, including Woody and his father-in-law, Ben Nelson, whose family has been fishing these waters since the 1920s.
Together, under the flag of Jeri's Seafood in Smith Point, Woody and Nelson hold 13 leases covering 868 acres, or 37 percent of the private reefs in the bay. But the family-run company also harvests the public ones during a six-month season.







J. Patric Schneider, Freelance 
Tracy Woody sorts through oysters on Galveston Bay last Wednesday in Anahuac. Woody and his father-in-law, hold 13 leases covering 868 acres, or 37 percent of the private reefs in the bay.

To alleviate increasing commercial pressure on the oyster population, the state stopped issuing new leases in 1983 and stopped issuing oyster licences in 2007.
Even so, Woody said nearly 500 oyster boats will be in the bay this season. The combination of overfishing, hurricanes, algae blooms and water demands from swelling populations as far north as Dallas has left the bay's reefs in bad shape. It will be almost impossible to find oysters large enough - at least three inches across - to legally harvest and deliver to market after the first month of the new season, he said.
Woody said he sought the lease for large-scale restoration, figuring that after decades in these waters he could do a better job than the state at creating a sustainable underwater habitat.
"The folks of Chambers County, this is their bay," Woody said. "They've seen what has happened under Texas Parks and Wildlife's management, and they want a new manager."
About 1,000 acres of the leased land is readily available for creating new reefs, Woody said. Ideally, he will sublease some of the property to others who would build their own reefs by dumping loads of cultch, usually shells and rocks, into their submerged plots. Free-floating larvae attach themselves to the hard surfaces and grow into a marketable oyster over the next 18 months. 
Woody said he wouldn't sell subleases for profit. But he would require the lease-holders to follow his planting and harvesting standards and allow him the first chance to buy their catch for the Jeri's Seafood processing plant.
_Monopoly accusation_
Other oystermen accuse Woody of trying to create a monopoly in the state's most bountiful estuary.
"This would totally change the industry," said Lisa Halili, who, with her husband, Johnny, owns Bacliff-based Prestige Oysters, the bay's largest shipper. "It's a hornet's nest that's going to bite all of us."
Halili has gathered more than 800 signatures on a petition opposing the plan. One of them belongs to Jure Slabic, a fourth-generation oysterman from Seabrook. 
Slabic's family holds 64 acres in the bay, but the land is in the area covered by the district's lease with STORM. With uncertainty swirling, Slabic opted not to deposit empty shells for reef building during spawning season in May and June - a decision that could sharply reduce his oyster crop next year
_ "If they are successful, they would have complete control of an area where a lot of these fishermen work," Slabic said. "This would knock the balance of power to their side."
For now, there is only so much Woody can do. He has sent letters warning oystermen not to trespass on the areas covered by the lease with the district, but doesn't plan to enforce it.
Meanwhile, Woody can't build new oyster reefs because the Army Corps of Engineers has denied his permit request in the absence of state authorization. STORM can reapply later, said Sandra Arnold, a Corps spokeswoman in Galveston.
Woody said he remains undeterred. "In time, I think people will see this is the right thing to do and should have been done sooner," he said. "The bay won't be as productive as it can be until somebody like us comes along."
_


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

If "Woody" has to create his own reefs where none now exist I am 100% for it. It's a win/win. Great for private industry/job creation and great for the bay ecosystem.


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## P (Nov 18, 2012)

Will this also cut out the sportsman that wants to get 2 sacs for personal use ?


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## LaddH (Sep 29, 2011)

P said:


> Will this also cut out the sportsman that wants to get 2 sacs for personal use ?


Yes.In the leased area.
The way I understand it anyway.


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## Im Headed South (Jun 28, 2006)

State sold the land to the Nav district in the 50's (for a profit), Nav district leased the land out (for a profit), now the state says the guy that is leasing the land doesn't have any exclusive rights to land they sold 60 yrs ago. There is also a bunch of oyster men mad because either they didn't think of it first or would rather have access to the reefs without having to pay for it. That about sum it up? 

IMO, if the state sold the land then they shouldn't have much say in what the lands being used for if there are no laws being broken. The state leases out reefs to private companies all over the place up there so that's not the issue, again imo they are mad because they aren't getting a cut. If they feel so strongly they should offer to buy the land back. Am I missing something?


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## Greyter (Nov 1, 2014)

[QUOTE Am I missing something?[/QUOTE]

Yes, owning the mineral rights to a tract of land doesn't give you the right to graze cattle or build houses on it.


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## tamucc04 (Jun 21, 2011)

Greyter said:


> [QUOTE Am I missing something?


Yes, owning the mineral rights to a tract of land doesn't give you the right to graze cattle or build houses on it.[/QUOTE]
I'm confused by this. May be the way I'm reading it. Yes the state still own the minerals. But oysters are on the surface. Would be just like leasing land from the state to grow a food crop on.


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## Im Headed South (Jun 28, 2006)

"*The district purchased the land from the state in the 1950s, *a time of heavy dredging of Galveston Bay's natural reefs. Shell was used for concrete and building materials, among other uses."

This said they bought the land not the minerals, they bought it at the time for harvesting oysters so it wasn't a surprise to the state what they were doing. What's changed since then?


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## coonassgirlfishing (Oct 8, 2014)

:headknock


coonassgirlfishing said:


> They need a like button on this thing. You stated exactly what i have been saying. They are just ****** off because they didn't think of it first. The main one screaming is prestige oysters and they own a total of 30000 acres of private leases. I don't or can't understand how they think that this is different then what they already do. The reefs are in very poor shape someone has to step up and conserve our reefs. The state is sucking at it, whats wrong with an individual wanting to do it with their own money. It won't cost the taxpayers anything.


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## coonassgirlfishing (Oct 8, 2014)

*What people don't know*



Its Catchy said:


> Lots of bad info out there. Commercial oyster harvest does not scrape them flat. 90% of the dredging yields dead shell which is returned back to the reef and provides cultch for next years crop.
> 
> When Hurricane Ike covered up the majority of the oyster reef in East Galveston bay TPWD with some federal money actually paid commercial oystermen to pull bagless dredges over the effected reefs in an effort to provide cultch for the next crop.


Yes but what a lot of people don't know was that it was Ben Nelson and Tracy Woody that told the state that they needed to go out in East Bay and do this before all the oysters die from being covered by Ike. They wanted to do it on their own reefs but the state would not allow them too. Until the state finally figured out that it would be the right thing to do to save the reefs.


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## baybug (Nov 6, 2014)

*chocolate bayou*

anybody know the bayou if in low tide is still navigateabal or marked , an can I launch out of lukes marina with my 1810 nautic star bay boat ? the BAYBUG :headknock


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## Big Guns 1971 (Nov 7, 2013)

I dont care what they due as long as I get My fresh oysters and have a reef or two to fish...


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## ComalClassic (Apr 16, 2010)

This is great. I bet most of the people complaining about the oyster dredging and "scraping the reefs flat" are probably the first ordering up a dozen fresh ones when they get to the coast.


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## Cork & Jig (Jan 5, 2010)

ComalClassic said:


> This is great. I bet most of the people complaining about the oyster dredging and "scraping the reefs flat" are probably the first ordering up a dozen fresh ones when they get to the coast.


Oysters reproduce at a ridiculous rate. Each one releases millions and millions of eggs yearly. The oyster "spat" need substrate to grow on.(old or broken shell)

They only live a couple of years and that's it. If they aren't harvested they're just gonna die.

Also, there are many, many, small reefs throughout the bays that never get dredged, at least in West Matagorda. People don't even know where all the deep water ones are located. Plus, the really shallow ones NEVER get dredged. I know this because I "****" my own on these types of shallow reefs. Some of them contain some really nice, fat oysters, too.

I'm getting hungry talking about them. I think I'll get up and fry some of the ones I just shucked.


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## Wado (May 15, 2011)

Oysters are a fragile creature. They have lots of enemies, some that have gills and some that breathe air. The ones breathing air have taken a toll on them. The warm blooded air breathers are supposed to have superior intelligence but I am not so sure. Nature is going to do what it wants to do, no matter what happens on the surface where the brains are. Rain will come and the bays will get back to the correct salinity and the remaining oysters will release eggs and spat will attach and the cycle will start and reefs will grow. Then the drum and sheep head and red fish will eat about half of the small oysters. And then here comes you know who with a dredge. He tears the reef to pieces and scatters it out so maybe in ten years when the water gets right the reef will grow again. Meanwhile after hammering the reef for three months oyster drills show up. They consume a large portion of the remaining oysters but they don't get all of them, nature prevails. Back to the air breathers. They just can't be taken out of the equation, their livelihoods depend on these living rocks. There is something about oysters that excite the guys that catch them and sell them. It's not only the money, I don't know how to explain it. It's like you possess something or a status of some kind. I know, I caught the dang things. I can see the passion in some of the posts, not only on this thread but another one discussing the intentions of S.T.O.R.M. 

I am going to pause for a second.

This sounds like a range war between two ranchers. I put the picture of the Indian crying a single tear on the other thread for a good reason. Is this what it is coming to? The privatisation of public reefs to keep the bad guys away? I understand the need for action but is this it? I know working with the State is almost impossible. It's their way or the highway. The only way anything is going to get done is all of the folks in the oyster industry get together, the catchers, the shuckers, the packers and yes the money men, the "Rancher's", put their heads together and lobby their way into an oyster program that the State supports. 

I, personally don't think leasing up the bottom is the answer. I am sure their intentions are noble and for a good cause. I have an opinion and there it is. And they can stick their counter petition in a dead oyster shell and pitch it in the water for all I care. Oh, getting commercial fishermen together like I suggest rarely happens. I am not sure I have ever witnessed this in the years I did it. I caught that big oyster in Palacios Bayou back in the late eighties. I was selling to Gold Coast Seafood back then and George Miller was shucking my oysters in Seadrift. There was reefs with oysters like this in several places in the Bayou, you can run barefoot through there now.


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

Wado,

I'm going to disagree. I think leasing up the bottom is the answer. As long as no current public oyster reef is allowed to be leased. Capitalism is a great thing. If private enterprise wants to take the time and money to provide a base and build reef where none now exist why not let them?

1.) Beneficial to the health and ecology of the bay
2.) Creation of wealth, jobs tax dollars.

The key has to be "creation" of reef and not simply transferring what is now public reef into someones private coffers.


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## Wado (May 15, 2011)

Half Moon Reef is currently being "rebuilt" I guess you would say. However, if it does what the other artificial reefs did that are just off of the north shore above the canal in West Matagorda Bay they need to keep the oyster boats off of it for a few years. They pounded those other new reefs to death. There has to be some closures. Just like a farmer rotates crops, common sense. Some of these individuals don't possess that. This is a good debate and it is very important. The more it is talked about the better the chance of a solution that is right for everybody. 

The key has to be "creation" of reef and not simply transferring what is now public reef into someones private coffers.

And this^^^^^


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

If more area was "privatized" they would be off limits to everyone but the lease holder.


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## Im Headed South (Jun 28, 2006)

State passed a law this year saying the boats must stay off the restored reefs for 2 years, they are supposed to have marked the reefs on all four corners with buoys.


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## TWoody (Oct 9, 2014)

Oysters do reproduce at a ridiculous rate; this is natureâ€™s way of insuring they rebound quickly after a catastrophic event such as a flood. But during drought periods their chance of survival to market size is drastically reduced, even though oysters actually spawn and do very well in high salinity. Extended drought periods bring predators such as the oyster drill, and a disease known as Dermo, which is deadly to oysters but harmless to humans. Also, the boring sponge and boring clam are creatures that thrive in high salinities; they can inadvertently kill the oyster by consuming their protective shell. The most alarming issue to me is these creatures are reducing shell reef substrate to fine ground shell hash, which is not suitable for oyster spats to attach, ending the cycle of natural shell replenishment to the reef structure.

We need a flood that would kill a majority of the oysters in the bay every ten to twelve years. This would also rid the bay of all the disease and predators of the oyster and its shell for a long period after the flood. The empty shells of dead oysters provide excellent reef structure for the next generation of oysters to attach. Then two years later you would have a bumper crop of healthy beautiful slick shelled oysters, and hopefully adequate fresh water inflows to maintain their health.

The entire gulf coast is experiencing extremely low oyster production due to persistent drought conditions and other man induced reasons. National demand is high with prices to match and Texas oyster resources are being exploited by large shipping companies. These shipping companies are willing to sacrifice the future for riches today by accepting from harvesters as much as 70 percent illegal undersize oysters and up to 35 pounds of shell in each sack to be shipped out of state. These are your public reefs being shipped out for private gain, compounding the uncontrollable natural destruction of reefs.

Many conservationists agree that the best management of a resource is through private ownership with trespass protections, where the stewards of the resource invest, enjoy benefits and further reinvest, creating sustainable resource management. In contrast the Texas oyster resource on state submerged land is a common to all, free for the taking, an open access fishery that promotes competition for the resource to the point it is detrimental to the oyster, the reefs and the estuaries.

TGLO and TPWD continue to ignore inherent private property rights that Sustainable Texas Oyster Resource Management LLC. (STORM) has by virtue of the oyster lease, granted by Chambers Liberty Counties Navigation District (CLCND) on their submerged lands. The state of Texas sold the submerged lands to CLCND in the 1950's, reserving only the mineral rights and the recreational hunting and fishing, above the submerged land for the people. Under management by the state, CLCNDâ€™s submerged lands have been and still are mismanaged and allowed to be exploited to the point that only fine ground shell hash remain and a majority of the reefs have disappeared. The only way most of these reefs will ever recover is by someone placing substrate on them.

TPWD reported that 8,000 acres of reefs were lost during hurricane IKE. In the last six years TPWD has received $10.5 million dollars to rebuild just over 400 acres of oyster reef. At that rate it will take the state 100 years and well over $210 million dollars to restore 8,000 acres. I am not acknowledging the 1,000 acres claimed to have been restored by using fishing vessels towing bag less dredges. This was a failure on many levels that has been affirmed by no production of oysters from these areas since 2008. For bag less dredging to be successful, silt can be no more than a couple of inches deep and the vessels must tow at a sufficient speed to suspend silt, while insuring there is sufficient current to move the silt in a direction that doesnâ€™t cover up other reefs in the area. Captain should be required to clean the tooth bar of dredges regularly and dispose of debris on shore. There must also be suitable substrate on the reef for spat to attach after silt removal (shell hash is inadequate).

STORM is not asking for money, only the permits necessary to legally accomplish this extremely beneficial endeavor that has virtually zero negative impacts. This STORM will improve water quality, habitat for marine life, augment fish stocks and improve the quality of life for millions of residents that enjoy living in the Galveston Bay area. 
We respectfully request your help in promoting STORMâ€™s mission of utilizing private property rights and the economic benefits of capitalism to enhance this vital estuary and reduce pressure on the public oyster resource.
Please visit www.oysterstorm.com for more information.

Thank You
Tracy Woody
Sustainable Texas Oyster Resource Management LLC.(STORM)
409-355-2243


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## The Last Mango (Jan 31, 2010)

TWoody said:


> Oysters do reproduce at a ridiculous rate; this is natureâ€™s way of insuring they rebound quickly after a catastrophic event such as a flood. But during drought periods their chance of survival to market size is drastically reduced, even though oysters actually spawn and do very well in high salinity. Extended drought periods bring predators such as the oyster drill, and a disease known as Dermo, which is deadly to oysters but harmless to humans. Also, the boring sponge and boring clam are creatures that thrive in high salinities; they can inadvertently kill the oyster by consuming their protective shell. The most alarming issue to me is these creatures are reducing shell reef substrate to fine ground shell hash, which is not suitable for oyster spats to attach, ending the cycle of natural shell replenishment to the reef structure.
> 
> We need a flood that would kill a majority of the oysters in the bay every ten to twelve years. This would also rid the bay of all the disease and predators of the oyster and its shell for a long period after the flood. The empty shells of dead oysters provide excellent reef structure for the next generation of oysters to attach. Then two years later you would have a bumper crop of healthy beautiful slick shelled oysters, and hopefully adequate fresh water inflows to maintain their health.
> 
> ...


I can't have a private lease in Matagorda Bay, so as far as I'm concerned, I hope you don't get yours either.


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## jampen (Oct 12, 2012)

But if you could have private leases, then would you??

As long as the leases specifically include a mandate to the lease holder under threat of revocation that that holder must restore and rebuild the reefs I don't see a problem with them. It is probably the best (and only) non-taxpayer funded way to reverse the damage done be storms, over-harvest etc.


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## The Last Mango (Jan 31, 2010)

jampen said:


> But if you could have private leases, then would you??
> 
> As long as the leases specifically include a mandate to the lease holder under threat of revocation that that holder must restore and rebuild the reefs I don't see a problem with them. It is probably the best (and only) non-taxpayer funded way to reverse the damage done be storms, over-harvest etc.


I want 1,2,3,............a bunch of em'
State won't let us, it's not about wanting, it's about getting


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## jeffm66 (Sep 14, 2010)

Were these leases put up for sale so that anyone could purchase ?


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## jampen (Oct 12, 2012)

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/PW/htm/PW.76.htm

I guess all the private leases are man-made


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

The Last Mango said:


> I want 1,2,3,............a bunch of em'
> State won't let us, it's not about wanting, it's about getting


Mango,

I'm all about changing the rules. Everything in our bay system has changed since we were kids. We need to change as well. I see no better option than the state issuing private bay bottom to private enterprise with the intent of building and harvesting oysters where none now exist.


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## jampen (Oct 12, 2012)

It say you can pay a $200 application fee and upon approval pay $6 per acre to make your own private reef. 

Does TPWD not approve any private lease in Mattie?


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## jampen (Oct 12, 2012)

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/fishboat/fish/didyouknow/oysterarticle.phtml

Seems like if it is good for GB it should be good down south. I wonder why TPWD hasn't expanded the program


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## TWoody (Oct 9, 2014)

Last mango
I hope that you get private leases in Matagorda, if not don't blame us. We are trying to get the moratorium lifted but we face a very difficult up hill battle against two state agencies and a few large oyster shipping companies that control most of the oyster industry. The TGLO placed a moratorium on leasing state owned submerged land for private oyster leases in the 80's. As to why we can only speculate? 
During a recent meeting with both our attorneys present, TPWD officials confirmed rumors, that they may not renew any private oyster leases in 2017. This prompted us to look for an alternative and some of the reasons for leasing the submerged lands owned by CLCND.


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## jampen (Oct 12, 2012)

I just want to ask, are the private leases actually on reefs that were man-made? Or are they on existing, previously public, reefs that were later made "private" through the lease agreement?

And, if they were existing reefs, what was the condition of the reefs at the time they were privatized? Were they active and growing, immediately harvest-able, or were they damaged, in decline, or dead?


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## P (Nov 18, 2012)

This might gain a lot more support if the sportsman could be certain they would not suffer in the end . Not many people **** their own oysters ,but it just seems like every time something changes the sportsman looses in the end. Personally I would rather dig mine out of a jar .


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## Wado (May 15, 2011)

The entire gulf coast is experiencing extremely low oyster production due to persistent drought conditions and other man induced reasons. National demand is high with prices to match and Texas oyster resources are being exploited by large shipping companies. These shipping companies are willing to sacrifice the future for riches today by accepting from harvesters as much as 70 percent illegal undersize oysters and up to 35 pounds of shell in each sack to be shipped out of state. These are your public reefs being shipped out for private gain, compounding the uncontrollable natural destruction of reefs.

This has been going on for a long time. You just have to be the right person to get away with it. If I would have got caught with 35 pounds of junk in a sack They would have either cut me about fifty percent or sent me back in the bay to re-cull. And 70 percent under 3", a trip to the JP and if the warden was nice let me throw them back on the reef, if he was a you know what he would let the buyer bid on them. What a screwed up business. Corrupt to the max. Sorry I cut and pasted TWoody, this mess needs cleaning up. I am not sure it can be. The best thing that can happen down here is rain, lots of rain. I am sorry to the guys that still fish for oysters, but if it rains enough the Health Department will shut it down. I chased oysters one year and would get a couple of days in and here come the rain. Pretty discouraging for me, my appetite for money wouldn't allow me to sit and I didn't have a Lone Star Card or subsidized rent so run five or six hours to another bay system just to get more rain. Another closure. This was temporary but it gives the reef a rest and the oysters do grow and get fatter. Trouble is when it opens back up here they come, climbing out of their holes and back on their raggedy *** oyster boats and finish what they started. If they were like me and some other individuals with higher standards they would give these creatures a rest. And believe me I am not trying to bash anyone for working hard and making a living. If they were eight bucks a sack again you wouldn't see these guys spinning around on a dead reef. 

Heck they used to put us on a twenty sack limit at eight dollars, what a joke. But if you worked for the right guys load the wagon boys. Can you tell I hated this **** yet?
And I was an Independent Owner and Business that had no binds to some Oyster Wholesaler? No offense intended.


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## dolch (Aug 19, 2005)

I do not know the laws/rules, but it seems like there should be some off limit reefs scattered throughout the bay to provide healthy brood stock. As stated, when the reefs are over harvested, all that's left if the crushed shell. Also, how probable is the success of undersized oysters to survive if they land face down in the mud when they are thrown back? 

I am not knowledgeable on the subject. I do like to fish reefs, and I like to eat oysters. It seems like government control is rarely the answer, but this one is complicated. It will be interesting to learn a little more about the subject and see how this plays out.


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## johnmyjohn (Aug 6, 2006)

I was watching a special on Asian kelp harvest a while back. They would use floats and suspend ropes or something like that but it covered an area as far as you could see.There wasn't going to be any fishing boats flying thru there. Money will get their way. This is going in the direction of the privatizing red snapper harvest. Commercial says they too can regulate snapper populations if given total control, never mind they already do. Big business works slow and easy, before long your paying for something you had for free. Remember when you could park for free on the Galveston seawall that was built and paid for in the early 1900's? Or maybe the Galveston west beach you could drive on because it belonged to the state, now you're given token parking areas and for practical purposes the beaches belongs to the wealthy condo and home owners. This oyster thing will go the same route, regardless of what the water does. The lease owners will find a way to put a fence on the land under the water and nobody will be able to enter except them. Of course it will be in the name of conservation. Folks, there's a forest out there so try to see beyond the trees.


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## jampen (Oct 12, 2012)

If they are creating new reefs in barren areas and rehabing damaged and dying reefs, I'm all for it.


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

jampen said:


> If they are creating new reefs in barren areas and rehabing damaged and dying reefs, I'm all for it.


X2


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## TWoody (Oct 9, 2014)

jampen said:


> I just want to ask, are the private leases actually on reefs that were man-made? Or are they on existing, previously public, reefs that were later made "private" through the lease agreement?
> 
> And, if they were existing reefs, what was the condition of the reefs at the time they were privatized? Were they active and growing, immediately harvest-able, or were they damaged, in decline, or dead?


Here is the TPWD Code pertaining to which state submerged lands qualify for a certificate of location (private oyster lease) before the TGLO moratorium was placed on oyster leases. 
Sec. 76.003. BEDS SUBJECT TO LOCATION. Except as provided in Section 76.004 of this code, an oyster bed or reef, other than a natural oyster bed, is subject to location by the department. This section does not apply to a bed or reef that has been exhausted within an eight-year period.

(2) "Natural oyster bed" means an area where at least five barrels of oysters are found within 2,500 square feet of any position on a reef or bed.

Most locations had very little reef exposed above the mud line and these areas were classified as barren after inspection by TPWD officials, or they would be denied. Smart applicants would apply for areas that were covered in only a few inches of silt, to reduce restoration cost. A majority of the state leases we hold were taken up to prevent shell mining dredges from cutting them out of the bay. Some of the reefs were denied because they meet the definition of a natural oyster bed by TPWD, only latter to be cut out by shell dredges.
STORM


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## TWoody (Oct 9, 2014)

johnmyjohn said:


> I was watching a special on Asian kelp harvest a while back. They would use floats and suspend ropes or something like that but it covered an area as far as you could see.There wasn't going to be any fishing boats flying thru there. Money will get their way. This is going in the direction of the privatizing red snapper harvest. Commercial says they too can regulate snapper populations if given total control, never mind they already do. Big business works slow and easy, before long your paying for something you had for free. Remember when you could park for free on the Galveston seawall that was built and paid for in the early 1900's? Or maybe the Galveston west beach you could drive on because it belonged to the state, now you're given token parking areas and for practical purposes the beaches belongs to the wealthy condo and home owners. This oyster thing will go the same route, regardless of what the water does. The lease owners will find a way to put a fence on the land under the water and nobody will be able to enter except them. Of course it will be in the name of conservation. Folks, there's a forest out there so try to see beyond the trees.


We have hade private leases in Galveston bay for more than 40 years and have never denied anyone access other than unpermitted commercial oyster harvesters.

These bays are to shallow for off bottom culture (cages) so you will not have to worry about running over cages or lines, but you will still need to watch out for reefs.

No private entity can charge you to boat, anchor or fish on public waters, that privilege is reserved to the state trough licensing and registration.


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## TWoody (Oct 9, 2014)

Wado said:


> The entire gulf coast is experiencing extremely low oyster production due to persistent drought conditions and other man induced reasons. National demand is high with prices to match and Texas oyster resources are being exploited by large shipping companies. These shipping companies are willing to sacrifice the future for riches today by accepting from harvesters as much as 70 percent illegal undersize oysters and up to 35 pounds of shell in each sack to be shipped out of state. These are your public reefs being shipped out for private gain, compounding the uncontrollable natural destruction of reefs.
> 
> This has been going on for a long time. You just have to be the right person to get away with it. If I would have got caught with 35 pounds of junk in a sack They would have either cut me about fifty percent or sent me back in the bay to re-cull. And 70 percent under 3", a trip to the JP and if the warden was nice let me throw them back on the reef, if he was a you know what he would let the buyer bid on them. What a screwed up business. Corrupt to the max. Sorry I cut and pasted TWoody, this mess needs cleaning up. I am not sure it can be. The best thing that can happen down here is rain, lots of rain. I am sorry to the guys that still fish for oysters, but if it rains enough the Health Department will shut it down. I chased oysters one year and would get a couple of days in and here come the rain. Pretty discouraging for me, my appetite for money wouldn't allow me to sit and I didn't have a Lone Star Card or subsidized rent so run five or six hours to another bay system just to get more rain. Another closure. This was temporary but it gives the reef a rest and the oysters do grow and get fatter. Trouble is when it opens back up here they come, climbing out of their holes and back on their raggedy *** oyster boats and finish what they started. If they were like me and some other individuals with higher standards they would give these creatures a rest. And believe me I am not trying to bash anyone for working hard and making a living. If they were eight bucks a sack again you wouldn't see these guys spinning around on a dead reef.
> 
> ...


This is not the oyster fishery you recall, we have a different breed of people in this industry that doesn't know when to stop. We are not in Kansas anymore.


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## jampen (Oct 12, 2012)

I can understand the jealousy from other non-lease holder oyster men but I do not understand the opposition from outside parties...

Why would the TxGLO not want to expand this program to get as many dead reefs as possible back in to production all along the coast??

Looks to me like the private lease holders are doing a huge service to health and wealth of the GB area.


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## stdreb27 (Aug 15, 2011)

So to preface this, I don't trust anyone, really cynical, (and I know the guy is posting in here, don't take it personally, it's not just you) but someone with a local monopoly running things well, leasing not for profit, no competition etc is a hard story to believe.

That being said, I love his idea, and if I knew it would be administered correctly, sounds like a good way to restore the reefs. Of course once government figures out private industry will do a better job than them all hell will break loose. And it sounds like it already has. 

I'm just really torn.


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## jampen (Oct 12, 2012)

Only about 10% of the production is from private leases...

Hardly a monopoly. I think it should be up around 50/50.

You know that the private-lease holders are gonna do everything in their power to be good stewards of their reefs and increase production. 

Can't always say that for the guys that are out there to take as much as possible and when the reefs are depleted, they move on to the next location.


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## stdreb27 (Aug 15, 2011)

jampen said:


> Only about 10% of the production is from private leases...
> 
> Hardly a monopoly. I think it should be up around 50/50


Wouldn't woody's idea up that?


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## jampen (Oct 12, 2012)

From what I read there is approximately 23,000 acres of public reefs currently in production and 2300 acres of private leases.

The Chambers/Liberty Counties Nav District privately owns and want to lease 23000 acres of bottom ground around GB. 

Surely not all of it is reefs, probably less than 5-10%. But this plan will add many more active and productive reefs without tax-payer support. I think private guys, like Woody, should be allowed to develop these barren, dead areas and have their investment in time and money protected from poachers.

On a side note it is not surprising that the TxGLO is again, trying to infringe on a private land owner's property rights. Bunch of communist up there.


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## jampen (Oct 12, 2012)

It is a huge gamble on the part of the private lease holders. At any time, any number of natural or man-made disaster could destroy the reefs that they have invested so much time and money to develop.

Your average oyster boat will just move on to some other fishery when the going gets too tough. You know these lease holders aren't going anywhere. They got too much to lose.

If they are willing to do it I say let em go to it.


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## jampen (Oct 12, 2012)

Here is a link to the Facebook page for most recent news and info

https://www.facebook.com/Stormllc


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## jampen (Oct 12, 2012)

Galveston Bay is approx 600 square miles. That is 384,000 acres.

The private bottom land, they are talking about, is 23,000 acres (about 6%). Not sure exactly where it is located.


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## jampen (Oct 12, 2012)

In the name of balance, here is the facebook page for Prestige Oysters. They are the main voice against the STORM group.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Prestige-Oyster-Inc/120941624591760


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## jampen (Oct 12, 2012)

From their own website...









http://www.prestigeoysters.com/

They are not opposed to private leases as long as they have control of those leases.

They apparently are against Woody's and other competitors having them.

Hypocrites

And being "the world's largest shipper" they no doubt have deep pockets filled with dollars and lawyers.


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## johnmyjohn (Aug 6, 2006)

Under law if you have a lease and the restriction isn't there you are able to sublease. If you're leasing an area whats keeping one from subleasing to a guide service.


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## jampen (Oct 12, 2012)

The way I understand it, the leases only apply to the submerged ground. Not the surface, water column above the ground, or areas below the ground (minerals).


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## The Last Mango (Jan 31, 2010)

jampen said:


> From their own website...
> 
> View attachment 1823593
> 
> ...


Keep your comments to yourself , you don't even know what a fkng oyster is


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## jampen (Oct 12, 2012)

You're right...but I know BS from 300 miles away


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## jampen (Oct 12, 2012)

Those guys would take that CLCND lease in a heartbeat if they could. You would also.

They are just ****** off because they didn't get it.


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## Wado (May 15, 2011)

TWoody said:


> This is not the oyster fishery you recall, we have a different breed of people in this industry that doesn't know when to stop. We are not in Kansas anymore.


Woody, like I said they didn't know when to stop back then when the reefs were healthy. When these buyers showed up with eighteen wheelers at every dock they could rent and gave them no limits that's when the demise of our reefs began.Galveston Bay, East Matagorda, West Matagorda, Tres Palacios, Carancahua, Lavaca, San Antonio, Espiritu Santo and all the way down to Copano and Corpus Christi Bays. Our reefs went down I-10 on rubber tires. All of this history doesn't have much to do about leasing but it gives some insight on the fishery the way I lived it. I am sorry but you are incorrect about not being in Kansas, we are still there and the same tornado is swirling around and the question is who is going to be The Wizard that fixes everything?


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## jampen (Oct 12, 2012)

I caught an oyster one time while bottom dragging for flounder.

I revived and released it...to fight another day


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## Wado (May 15, 2011)

I asked a guy one time why he liked to oyster and not shrimp. He said because the oysters can't swim off. If you tossed it back there is a chance it got put in a coffee sack and went on a road trip.


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

Wado said:


> Woody, like I said they didn't know when to stop back then when the reefs were healthy. When these buyers showed up with eighteen wheelers at every dock they could rent and gave them no limits that's when the demise of our reefs began.Galveston Bay, East Matagorda, West Matagorda, Tres Palacios, Carancahua, Lavaca, San Antonio, Espiritu Santo and all the way down to Copano and Corpus Christi Bays. Our reefs went down I-10 on rubber tires. All of this history doesn't have much to do about leasing but it gives some insight on the fishery the way I lived it. I am sorry but you are incorrect about not being in Kansas, we are still there and the same tornado is swirling around and the question is who is going to be The Wizard that fixes everything?


I have to disagree. The demise of our reefs started about 100 years ago or longer. The Ship Channels, the intracoastal waterway, every dam on every river, creek and bayou.

You give an oyster enough base to grow on, the correct salinity for the correct amount of time and two oysters will re-populate the entire coast.

Keep in mind there is more reef in closed area than there is in open area pretty much making over harvest impossible.


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

Since a lot of people don't really know, this may be helpful. It's the shellfish harvesting maps you can find at the seafood safety divisions website. I would estimate that 70%+ of the total Texas bay system is closed the the harvesting of shellfish. Which makes it kind of hard to "over harvest". 

Keep in mind that nothing is open from the Louisiana border to East Galveston bay.

Nothing is open from San Louis Pass to about eastern 1/3 of East Matagorda bay

No commercial harvest of oysters from Nueces bay down to the Rio Grande.


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## Wado (May 15, 2011)

Its Catchy said:


> I have to disagree. The demise of our reefs started about 100 years ago or longer. The Ship Channels, the intracoastal waterway, every dam on every river, creek and bayou.
> 
> You give an oyster enough base to grow on, the correct salinity for the correct amount of time and two oysters will re-populate the entire coast.
> 
> Keep in mind there is more reef in closed area than there is in open area pretty much making over harvest impossible.


 Paragraph one: I agree. Oyster fishermen have compounded that problem with the invention of power dredging. Rakes and nippers were the tools before then but I knew oystermen that could tong forty to fifty barrels of oysters a day. One of them was my deckhand for several years. Hurricanes and natural disasters also have taken a toll, but isn't that Mother Nature's work? I don't think we can compete with her. You might but a lot of hard work could be erased in a heart beat. And the dams, yep.

Paragraph two: I agree. Years ago TPWD built an experiment station at the end of Wells Point Road. They dredged a slip out and a small channel. Out in front of the station in mud they drove two pilings about fifty yards apart. That is where the spoil went from the slip. Early nineties I guess I stopped there one day and dropped my dredge and pulled across the two markers. It came up puking oysters. I worked it about two weeks mostly on the drop off and caught several hundred sacks of oysters. I never got on top of the reef where there was clusters. Weather set in and I didn't go back there but a couple of weeks but later we did. That spot wasn't much over an acre but you couldn't put another boat on it. Muerta, dead now. Too many boats.

Paragraph three: Yes and no. Lots of closed water. Back in the nineties shellfish markers were put in place and a whole bunch of real estate was closed. That just put more pressure on what was open. Over harvest happened, just like my little strawberry patch I stumbled on. Several of our commercial fishermen in our community approached the Texas Department of Health and TPWD about transporting oysters from un-approved areas and planting them in open waters back then. Ain't gonna happen. I may be wrong on the dates but the markers are proof. And filling the bay up with lease markers is different?


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

Wado,

In Galveston bay they have been working some of the same reef for over a century. As a commercial oysterman you well know that 75-90%+ of the total shell taken up in a dredge is dead shell and pushed right back overboard providing a base for future oyster growth.

In my life I have seen dozens if not hundreds of "Honey Holes" dry up. When the conditions get right they come back. Oysters certainly can be over harvested but I don't think I have ever seen a reef completely wiped out by commercial oystermen. Picked clean, yes. Wiped out no.

Yes, filling the bay up with lease markers where no reef now exists is a good thing. As a commercial license holder I would love the opportunity to create and manage my own lease.


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## jampen (Oct 12, 2012)

When you say "picked clean" you mean for that season correct?

Next season or 2, given the right conditions, you get a new crop?


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

jampen said:


> When you say "picked clean" you mean for that season correct?
> 
> Next season or 2, given the right conditions, you get a new crop?


 "picked clean" can be for a season, two or even longer. Oysters need the right conditions to flourish. During the killer freezes of 83' and 89' almost every living oyster in the shallower bays was killed. I could not find an oyster alive in Christmas and Bastrop bays. Nothing.

Two years later was my best season ever. Pure grade a rocks!

Look at a pier that is a year old on low tide and check out the size of many oysters on it.


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## Wado (May 15, 2011)

Let's see here, 75-90% dead shell. My good ole skimmer dredge that some good buddy of mine took off of my boat when it was behind Bama Seafood would hold just about a sack or 100 pounds of shell. If I was pulling it every time I circled my buoy and it was full and worse case scenario I pulled ten pounds of three inch oysters out it would take twelve dredges to make a sack. For easy math lets say we made the circle, pulled the dredge and dumped it in one minute. Ten or eleven minutes per sack. Five an hour if everything goes right. That's a hard scratch in my books. I would be willing to bet that's a good scratch in 2014. I have done five an hour and I have done twenty five, I want the latter. In my opinion anything less than five means leave, doing more harm than good. 
I don't have a horse in this race but there is no denying the conditions of our reefs and what caused most of it. I spent a couple of weeks in Galveston Bay with a friend of mine one time. Reefs there are definitely different. Tide switches and oysters cover up. Northers blow and uncovers them. Lots of tide movement and tons of fresh water. Oyster paradise. All of this is giving me the fever, might see if I can get a job as a sacker or deckhand before the bays are leased up. I already sent one PM with my phone number.


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## jampen (Oct 12, 2012)

What's the going rate for a sack fresh off the boat?


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

Japen, I have not heard a boat price this year but I'm guessing mid 20s to the boat at the dock. Probably 35-40 retail I am guessing.


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## jampen (Oct 12, 2012)

Vid of boats stacked up on Frenchy's...opening week




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=816237135105107


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

Wado,

The limit is now 50 sacks. I have not wet a dredge in a few years but I'm guessing with the persistent drought going on it's hard to average 10-15 sacks an hour for a lot of areas. 

Gone are the 200+ sack days that I experienced when I was younger. The bays have changed. There is less open area and more boats scratching harder and harder on less area. 

Thats why I think private leases can offer a solution


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## TWoody (Oct 9, 2014)

Boat sack price 
GB 37.00
South 30.00
5 sacks of legal oysters Per hour would be a great spot.


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## jampen (Oct 12, 2012)

Do those GB reefs get their names from old timers back in the day??

Hanna, Frenchy, Moody etc


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## Wado (May 15, 2011)

My first stab at oystering was working for Captain Bill. He was the only shucking house here at the time. He had a couple of boats that messed around and most of the time he had to get shellstock from Seadrift and even Galveston. Nobody and I mean nobody even gave these reefs in west bay a second look. We never had a truck market, you caught and put them on the run that evening and the next day they shucked. Captain Bill paid you on a dry pack and I mean dry gallon. Eight pounds plus and I believe we got nine dollars a gallon. This gave us real incentive to catch good oysters, no snake skins. I have to laugh looking back at this, we would take a couple of sacks home and being the butcher I was I could get four good quarts a lot of times. We would settle up every day and Bill would shake his head and say man they just won't turn over six pints, might oughta look for another spot. I worked Carancahua Bay one entire winter and saw three other boats if that tells you something. Bill got shut down by the Health Department that year and we took our oysters to Priddy in Port Lavaca. No problem turning eight pints there. He must have had a smaller gallon. Sweetest deal I ever got was selling to Earl Fayard. Fourteen bucks for a shrimp basket of slick singles. We caught about forty a day, two handed taking our sweet time. Good money back in 1985. Burned about ten gallons of diesel. There just weren't any boats and the rate we were going we would never deplete our supply. You are right about the freeze. Man it wiped a bunch out. My dad bought his license and put it on a friend of ours lugger and went to Galveston, must have been 89. They didn't even make grocery money. He caught a rat in a loaf of bread on the boat.
Point is, we outgrew the shucking house and when the truck market exploded here and the rest of the lower coast everything that floated had a dredge hung on it. I remember fueling up at Gold Coast and behind me was a brand new boat. Vernon Jr. was running the dock there. He hollered at The Crusher and said I cant believe you are going to put a dredge on that brand new boat and tear it up. He hollered back I am if I plan on paying for it. Time to go oystering. Private leases will dang sure keep the numbers of boats down but you better have a guard tower at each end to keep the poachers off. Keep talking and I might want to lease me some, I bet I can find some boats to work.


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

Wado,

I sold many an oyster to Earl Fayard. In the mid 80's he had a oyster shucking house on the San Bernard river. I still have some of his plastic totes that are marked with his name and number on it.

Believe it or not with limited entry I think overall there are far fewer oyster boats working than there was in the 70's and 80's


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

TWoody said:


> Boat sack price
> GB 37.00
> South 30.00
> 5 sacks of legal oysters Per hour would be a great spot.


I said I would never do it again but for 37.00 a sack I may come out of retirement. The last few years I actually harvested oysters I just threw a pair of tongs on my skiff and went to work.

I don't even think I am man enough anymore to lift the tongs empty.


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## jampen (Oct 12, 2012)

Looks like '83 - '86 were the bumper years.

Might have been a big jump in the number of boats.


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

Jampen,

Throw that in the trash. Very, very few of the oysters harvested in the 80's were ever reported.


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

Speaking of which,

My father had a wholesale and retail seafood business and I don't think he ever reported anything to TPWD prior to say 1995 or so. No fish, shrimp or oysters at all were reported.

It was a cash business


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## Wado (May 15, 2011)

I could write a book about the oyster biz. Earl and I think it was Gary? the guy that drove trucks would pick the oysters up at our bait camp. The last time I saw Earl was in Matagorda. I had about three hundred pounds of 100 over brownies I caught in East Bay. He was buying shrimp there at Mid Coast and the bottom fell out on pee wee shrimp. I threw mine up on the dock and he came out saying no, no, no. I said whats up? He said what I can pay is going to insult you. I said I don't give a rats *** give me the diesel hose I'm headed for Seadrift, they got the Mancha down there. Shrimp are crawling out on the bank there are so many. Next week was one of the worst in my life. I stayed tied up to a well most of it trying to get the water out of my fuel that I bought from him. And he paid me twenty cents a pound for my shrimp, ha. To be young again.


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## jampen (Oct 12, 2012)

Here is an older report about the number of licenses. It should be fairly accurate.

Looks like mid-60's to mid 70's was high water mark on licenses.


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

Wado,

Earl was known as one of the most unscrupulous buyers on the coast. He simply could not resist sticking it to the fisherman.

I think I broke the record for unloading seafood on his dock only to reload it back in my truck when I got his "current price" only to make the long haul to Kemah.


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## jampen (Oct 12, 2012)

Well I, for one, hope the good old days are not all behind us. And if a private business is willing to invest in new oyster reefs, in areas that have not historically produced, I think it is worth a listen.


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

jampen,

"The best of the free life is still yet to come
The good times ain't over for good" Merle Haggard.

As far as the oysters are concerned we will bounce back. The current multi-year drought will give way to an el-nino year and the bays will bounce back. Trout and flounder will bounce back as well.

Its all about natural cycles.


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## coonassgirlfishing (Oct 8, 2014)

*They tell so many lies*

http://www.txrestaurantbuyersguide....=200002952&company_name=Prestige+Oysters,+Inc

Company Description
*Prestige Oysters Inc.* is the nation's leading oyster distributor specializing in fresh, shucked, High Pressure Process and frozen oysters. With docks all along the Gulf coast and 40,000 acres of private leases in Texas, Louisiana and Florida, Prestige Oysters is the world's largest oysters shipping company

Well I found this post via my coworker, and these people tell so many lies that they don't know how many acres of private leases they own. I agree with you Jampen and I have been saying this all along. It is quite alright for them to hold many acres in private leases, but it is not ok for anyone else. The only difference is they don't care about the future of our bay system they only care about the all mighty billions of dollars that they need to make.

http://m.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748704405704575596503362657386?mobile=y
Also here is a link to an article that I found where Prestige owners state this "one of the biggest oyster dealers in the US, its boats and docks along the coasts of Texas and Louisiana supply millions of pounds of oyster destined for raw bars and deep fryers nationwide".... "forklifts drove the catch into tractor trailers that headed to processors as far away as Virginia".... "Keep loading! Keep loading," yelled Johnny Halili, Prestige chief executive...."Just 11 tractor trailers showed up for oysters Monday at Prestige's Texas dock. That's about half the normal number on oyster season's opening day, Ms. Halili said"..... Ruzhdi Halili, Johnny and Lisa Halili's 24 year old son, sees other troubling signs. Nicknamed "Raz," he drives a black Range Rover his father bought with money he made in the business."


Well now we all know that the over harvesting of the bay and the drought has been a huge problem for our reefs. But as you can read from the last link that Prestige Oyster's business practices are "keep loading" "keep loading" idea has made a huge impact on the oyster reefs. I realize that this article was from November 2010, but their business practices has not changed to this date. 

I just encourage people to do their research before you come to any conclusions.


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## coonassgirlfishing (Oct 8, 2014)

Sounds to me that you must have some ties to Prestige Oyster or you wouldn't be getting so upset with Jampen's comments. And how do you know that he doesn't know what an oyster is. Besides you don't have to know anything about oysters to see through ******** lies.


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