# Open Container Ticket - Anyone ever fight one?



## gitchesum (Nov 18, 2006)

Wonder if I should have just started this one in the jungle, but here goes.

A few weeks ago, I got pulled over and given a ticket for a few violations. Expired License, couldn't find my insurance card, defective equipment(darkened tail lights) and an open container. As far as the first three violations are concerned, those aren't really an issue since they can be dismissed if you show proof you are in compliance, which I have. The open container, I'm curious about.

Now, the open container consisted of one empty beer can, on the rear passenger floorboard. Not even sure how long it had been there.

Below is the verbage of Texas Penal Code 49.031:



> Sec.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Now, since the can contained no alcoholic beverage, is it still considered an open container?

I mean, if you go to the beach in your car or jeep and have a couple of beers and pick up you beer cans and put them in the passenger area of your vehicle, are you in violation of an open container law?

I called my lawyer on this one, but his charge to fight it cost about as much as the ticket itself.


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## Shimanobandit (Sep 26, 2006)

You know if you'd just obey the law you wouldn't have to worry about how to swindle your way out of a tciket. Grow up, people like you are why everyone elses insurance is so high.


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## smells like fish (Jul 6, 2009)

As the wording of the law states "partial contents removed" if the can was *completely* empty, you might be able to beat it. But without a Lawyer it comes down to your word against his. I don't know where this occured but if it's a small town you might be going up against the whole brother-n-law system. I'm a LEO (H-town) but I've never written that citation, it's kinda like the Public Intoxication , IMHO it gives the officer too much leeway.


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## jlatigo (Aug 4, 2006)

wow wormburner!


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## Don Smith (Nov 24, 2007)

wormburner 1 said:


> You know if you'd just obey the law you wouldn't have to worry about how to swindle your way out of a tciket. Grow up, people like you are why everyone elses insurance is so high.


You probably didn't read the part about completely empty. I often pick up cans and other debris that people leave lying around and if an empty can is considered an open container, I guess I'm in violation of the law often and BTW, I don't drink. So grow up and think before you blast someone.


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## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

wormburner 1 said:


> You know if you'd just obey the law you wouldn't have to worry about how to swindle your way out of a tciket. Grow up, people like you are why everyone elses insurance is so high.


maybe you should consider a career in law enforcement.


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## gitchesum (Nov 18, 2006)

Yeah, I figured that would be the first reply. 

Since the can was empty, I was obeying the law, so that arguement don't hold water sport.

It was a HPD officer that gave me the ticket. Have a court date in December.


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## Bocephus (May 30, 2008)

wormburner 1 said:


> You know if you'd just obey the law you wouldn't have to worry about how to swindle your way out of a tciket. Grow up, people like you are why everyone elses insurance is so high.


Don't bother asking what the "greenies" are....they aren't meant for people like you.


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## bigpun91 (Oct 2, 2005)

I am betting the the only defense you would have is if the can is dry, the law states any amount, and a drop is any amount.


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## gitchesum (Nov 18, 2006)

Wouldn't they have to somehow prove the can was dry? He never touched the can, just told me the can was an open container.


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## Shimanobandit (Sep 26, 2006)

All I'm saying is if you're in the wrong pay the ticket, but the way you're statement comes across it sounds like it doesn't bother you that you even got stopped because you can get out of.


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## saltwatersensations (Aug 30, 2004)

wormburner 1 said:


> You know if you'd just obey the law you wouldn't have to worry about how to swindle your way out of a tciket. Grow up, people like you are why everyone elses insurance is so high.


Wow what a jerk.

As far as the open container goes good luck I hope it goes your way.


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## Bily Lovec (Sep 26, 2005)

wormburner 1 said:


> You know if you'd just obey the law you wouldn't have to worry about how to swindle your way out of a tciket. Grow up, people like you are why everyone elses insurance is so high.


I really hope you get the opportunity to tell Gitch that to his face :doowapsta


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## Gary (May 21, 2004)

Gimme back my bullets!


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## gitchesum (Nov 18, 2006)

Bily Lovec said:


> I really hope you get the opportunity to tell Gitch that to his face :doowapsta


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## bigpun91 (Oct 2, 2005)

if it was dry, then you should have said something, atleast it might have worked. but if it was not dry, good luck, if it was me I would just pay it, not worth the hassel of going to a houston court.


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## berto (Oct 14, 2004)

gitchesum said:


> I called my lawyer on this one, but his charge to fight it cost about as much as the ticket itself.


my lawyer told me the same so i just paid mine. i had a bottle of crown on the floorboard. I think he was just looking to write me a ticket for something.


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## Don Smith (Nov 24, 2007)

If we only had our reds back, wormburner would look like a Christmas tree.lol


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## gitchesum (Nov 18, 2006)

wormburner 1 said:


> All I'm saying is if you're in the wrong pay the ticket, but the way you're statement comes across it sounds like it doesn't bother you that you even got stopped because you can get out of.


Perhaps you aren't paying attention, or can't read.

The reason I'm fighting the ticket is because I do not believe I am in the wrong. Empty beer can does not equate to an open container according to the State of Texas. Read the code and tell my how I was in the wrong.

As far as the rest of the violations are concerned, the City of Houston states right there on the ticket that those violations will be dismissed if you can show proof you are in compliance of the law, which I am.


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## gitchesum (Nov 18, 2006)

bigpun91 said:


> if it was dry, then you should have said something, atleast it might have worked. but if it was not dry, good luck, if it was me I would just pay it, not worth the hassel of going to a houston court.


I used to try and argue my case at the time of getting a ticket, and learned it doesn't work that way. Especially when the ticket is already written.


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## bigpun91 (Oct 2, 2005)

gitchesum said:


> I used to try and argue my case at the time of getting a ticket, and learned it doesn't work that way. Especially when the ticket is already written.


it was worth a try, good luck with the ticket


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## lean2 (May 26, 2009)

i know a fella that collects aluminum cans to supplement his income. guess he'd get a ticket for that too


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## bigpun91 (Oct 2, 2005)

might be alittle diff. if they are in a trash bag in the rear of a vehicle, vs. one in the rear floor board


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## Cartman (Jun 18, 2008)

mastercylinder said:


> maybe you should consider a career in law enforcement.


Sounds like WWR doesn't it? Reading comprehension is not their strong suits.


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## SoccerMomma (Sep 20, 2006)

So, this means a passenger cannot have an open beer in the car too, right?


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## essayons75 (May 15, 2006)

I think open container is a gotcha law. It's a tax collector law. If someone is DUI, shame on them, go to jail. Open container though seems to be a back up when they can't charge DUI.


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## essayons75 (May 15, 2006)

SoccerMomma said:


> So, this means a passenger cannot have an open beer in the car too, right?


That's correct, dumb law.


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## bigpun91 (Oct 2, 2005)

no open container in the vehicle, I dont know who gets the ticket, passenger or driver


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## JLand (Apr 14, 2006)

*No, the passenger can have an open container*



SoccerMomma said:


> So, this means a passenger cannot have an open beer in the car too, right?


but, the driver gets the ticket. No open containers in the passenger area of the vehicle.


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## bigpun91 (Oct 2, 2005)

essayons75 said:


> That's correct, dumb law.


 how many people would be drinking and driving, get pulled over and pass the drink to the passenger, I can see that happening


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## gitchesum (Nov 18, 2006)

If he law stated any container that contained alcohol whether partially empty or completely empty was considered an open container, this would be a non issue. But, it clearly states it it has to be a partially empty, or full container either open, or with a broken seal.

The officer never touched the can, just saw it on the floor. Heck, it could have been a full can(it was one of the new Miller Lite screw top cans), since the cap was still on it.


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## gitchesum (Nov 18, 2006)

bigpun91 said:


> how many people would be drinking and driving, get pulled over and pass the drink to the passenger, I can see that happening


If the driver was DUI, the cop could take steps to move forward with that violation. Even drawing blood against the driver's will, but that's a whole other thread.


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## grayfish (Jul 31, 2005)

Maybe you should ask for the lab test that shows there was alcohol in the can. Perhaps it was urine. The officer never picked up the can per your statement. Good luck.


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## Gary (May 21, 2004)

Plead not guilty and ask for a trial by jury. Defend yourself without an attorney. Writing a writ isnt that hard. File one for discovery and inspection. The city's prosecuter will have to show evidence before the trial and if there isnt any, the only evidence they have will be the officers word.

Appeal to the jury how unjust this law is and the fact that you have never had another charge of this type. This law is all about raising revenue just like all those speed traps they run while they should be patrolling our neighborhoods for pedophiles and rapists insted. (Make eye contact with the women of the jury when you say this) And then say if your convicted, you will do the time rather than pay for a unjust and trivial law designed to do nothing but make money on an over taxed system that allready exists.


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## dabear (Nov 7, 2006)

I could only read the first 4 or 5 replies and it ****** me off.The guy did not ask for any smart a** remarks he was just asking for some assistance.Some people are always first to start ragging on someone.If he decides to fight it and looses he gets what is deserved and if he fights it and wins he done good.The man did not say he was drunk or out drinking until he got drunk he just said he had a open container.I am so sick of all you law abidding people that at one time probably broke the law and never got caught so now you are perfect.I am a law abidding citizen and sometimes after work i stop and get a cold one,so now i am a criminal.I say no so all you opininiated a**holes shut up and let the man ask for some help.Is that so hard.and if you didnt like it dont comment.


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## 11andy11 (Aug 12, 2004)

I once knew a guy that got a ticket for smoking in a sporting arena that you were not allowed to smoke in. The law said you could not smoke tobacco products. He went to court and said how do you know it wasn't a clove cig? Case got dismissed.


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## Big_poppabear (Mar 31, 2007)

11andy11 said:


> I once knew a guy that got a ticket for smoking in a sporting arena that you were not allowed to smoke in. The law said you could not smoke tobacco products. He went to court and said how do you know it wasn't a clove cig? Case got dismissed.


Now that's funny. Good luck fighting your ticket.


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## GreatWhite4591 (Sep 7, 2005)

dabear said:


> I could only read the first 4 or 5 replies and it ****** me off.The guy did not ask for any smart a** remarks he was just asking for some assistance.Some people are always first to start ragging on someone.If he decides to fight it and looses he gets what is deserved and if he fights it and wins he done good.The man did not say he was drunk or out drinking until he got drunk he just said he had a open container.I am so sick of all you law abidding people that at one time probably broke the law and never got caught so now you are perfect.I am a law abidding citizen and sometimes after work i stop and get a cold one,so now i am a criminal.I say no so all you opininiated a**holes shut up and let the man ask for some help.Is that so hard.and if you didnt like it dont comment.


 Chill out.... have a beer


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## gitchesum (Nov 18, 2006)

GreatWhite4591 said:


> Chill out.... have a beer


Just don't leave the empty in the truck.   :biggrin::biggrin:


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## gedavis2 (Oct 17, 2006)

So if your nursing you child and there is an empty beer can in the car, is the one nursing also charged with an open container?

GED


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## rockyraider (Feb 1, 2006)

I guess I'm just one of the softies, I don't write for open container or minor moving/equipment violations very often. Usually its for things like no license, no insurance, dangerous moving violations, etc.... I've learned to not make mountains out of mole hills. A little common sense goes a long way and most of the time citizens appreciate it when we treat them like human beings and understand that everyone makes minor mistakes. I don't know if its worth the hassle of fighting it, only you can make that decision. I've been on the recieving end of an arse chewing by a couple DPS Troopers for minor traffic violations, even with them knowing that I was a cop, and I definately didn't appreciate being treated with a heavy hand. Good luck.


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## htalamant (Mar 31, 2009)

*No open containers in vehicle...PERIOD!!*

Gitch,

I'm another one of the "friendlier" LEOs on here and this is for you and *you only*. I am not typing something for others to pick at and analyze or make smart remarks out of. I'm usually soft spoken and not rude but I'm just going to get right to the point without pulling any punches because I am sure some people will have something to say about this. I have read some of the posts regarding this issue and just to clarify, it is illegal to have ANY open containers in a vehicle. This is in regards to the passenger, driver or whoever in ANY part of a vehicle as long as you're in a public roadway.

There's this thing called constructive custody that applies to this situation. Now for those of you geniuses who have something smart to say, I have been dragged to court numerous times regarding folks (just like you) who thought they could beat it, but couldn't. This comes from experience and hours of watching people cry before a judge trying to beat a dead horse when the bottom line was, "The container was opened and filled with beer in your car!" Before I continue, I am not taking any sides but, if in fact you are getting screwed, then hopefully this will help. I believe in doing what's right and if you in fact deserved the ticket then "own up." But, if what happened to you was wrong, it's my reputation on the line they're jeopardizing also by not investigating it thoroughly. So hopefully some good, friendly advice will alleviate that to where you don't get such a bad taste about some of us cops.:dance:

 In your case Gitch I wasn't there but if the container was dry, then YES, you may have an argument. An open container is considered to be an illegal contraband item and must be in "plain view" meaning, the officer occupied a lawful vantage point when that contraband was observed. (FYI Guys & Gals: Ever wondered why they put those small paper sacks over the beer cans when you buy them? We can't "see" what they are through the paper sack, but if we can detect it through one of our five senses SIGHT, SOUND, SMELL, TOUCH or TASTE, we can still seize it! I know I wouldn't be able to SMELL a Sprite inside of a paper sack in the center console which means, by law, I can't assume it's automatically alcohol, but I can suspect and ask what that 12oz opened can between your feet is).

Anyhoo Gitch, your argument in this case may be where it was located at the time it was observed such as in the back seat. This job is common sense which means you would have to convince a judge and jury of your peers who go off of that common sense and not some CSI-type of conspiracy theory requiring the testimony from a scientist that had to fly in from Florida.

With that said, if I were to personally see an opened beer can in the backseat, I go into the car (plain view remember?) and seize it. The reason for doing this is to confirm or refute (through one of my other five senses) if it's just a hot, old, stale and forgotten can in the car and not the "cold, fresh, just drank it and threw it into the backseat before getting pulled over" type of beverage.....see what I mean?? :cheers: *Common sense!* :cheers:

Now, I am by no means "bashing" the cop that gave you this ticket, but you would not be in the wrong to defend yourself which is your right. As a LEO, I have a big stickler for doing what's right and looking out for folks (such as yourself being in a bit of a bind) and giving a little friendly advice which is why I chose to do this difficult job where we all make mistakes.:headknock I really have a problem seeing people get screwed, if in fact that is what happened to you regarding this incident. That's all this is Gitch, friendly advice and *not* the, "Hey Judge and men and women of the jury, this 2 Cooler said this and this....etc. etc." :work:

Emphasizing on the avoidance of "cop bashing" or quarterbacking the LEO that gave you this ticket, it is common practice (at least for us who do this on video) to document the open container to include, brand, size, and if it was cold to the touch or its condition to include emptied (completely or partially) or not. You can possibly argue why those details weren't on the citation if it was such a major violation. On top of all that, I NEVER release someone from the scene with that SAME beer can unless it is emptied because that is setting up that person for failure later on down the road if he got stopped by someone else. I mean, how would that make me look if DPS stopped the same guy a mile down the road after I just cited him for that? It's like I condoned it or something. I make sure that it's emptied and to do that, I have to touch it with my own bare hands which would confirm or dissafirm my suspicions.

You mentioned that the officer never touched the can. This may be a good argument for you in court. EXAMPLE: "Why was I released from the scene with an opened container full of alcohol as you suspected. As a law enforcement officer, you should make sure I don't pick that up, drink it and kill a family of five or a truckload of illegals on their way to Houston! (sorry, I couldn't resist that one!) So, if it was full of alcohol as you suspected, then your job should have been to at least have me pour it out (if it was full) or get rid of it by throwing it into my trunk or somewhere, anywhere other than just leaving it in the backseat where you saw it and kept within reach of me!" 

 As I close this, here's my resource information that you can reference to. If you need help Gitch, shoot me a PM and I'll glady clarify this for you on a friendly-level only 'cause this is intended for you to be helped since lawyers aren't cheap and you're a fellow 2-Cooler! I can't give you much advice on the other stuff because that is a gimmie however, depending on the court, you may receive a smaller fine if you can prove you had the vehicle insured at the time of the stop. If you can't but you do provide insurance later, see what they can do, but more than likely, you'll still be fined with something. By no means, blow any of that stuff off because they can and will suspend your license! And if all else fails, sad4smthrow yourself at the mercy of the court! ha! ha!

This is from: *http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/

*Per Texas Penal Code 49.031, Possession of Alcohol in Motor Vehicle reads:

:brew:"Open Container" means a bottle, can or other receptacle that contains *any* amount of alcoholic beverage and that is *open*, that has *been opened*, that *has a broken seal*, or the *contents of which are partially removed*." :brew:

A person commits an offense if the person knowingly possesses an open container in a passenger area of a motor vehicle that is located on a public highway, regardless of whether the vehicle is being operated or is stopped or parked. *Possession by a person of one or more open containers in a single criminal episode is a single offense.*​
(c) It is *an exception* to the application of Subsection (b) that at the time of the offense *the defendant was a passenger in*:

(1) the passenger area of a motor vehicle designed, maintained, or used primarily for the transportation of persons for compensation, including a bus, taxicab, or limousine; or

(2) the living quarters of a motorized house coach or motorized house trailer, including a self-contained camper, a motor home, or a recreational vehicle.​


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## Big Willy (Jun 20, 2007)

So, how do I get an open bottle from point A to point B on a public road way without breaking the law? I would assume the trunk would work but now I know the backseat obviously won't. What if I am in a pickup truck? Just let the bottle roll around in the bed until I get where I am going? Seems like a strict interpretation of the law to me.


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## Argo (May 21, 2004)

I bet wormburner is a galveston PD...


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## gitchesum (Nov 18, 2006)

I never have bad taste about any police officers. My father has been in law enforcement since the 70's, I know the kind of job you guys do everyday, and appreciate it. When I get pulled over, generally it's for a good reason. In this case, if I were the officer I would have pulled me over as well.

The fact that he could even see the can was my fault as well. When I get pulled over, all the windows get rolled down and the keys are in plain view on the roof of the car. I want to make the officer feel as safe as possible. My rear windows are tinted so dark, that if I had left them up, the officer would not have seen a thing in my back seat without asking permission to search.

The points you mentioned are the same ones that bother me. The officer issued a violation on a charge that wasn't fully investigated. In fact, from his vantage point, it would be impossible to know if hte can was even open due to the style of can it was. It was one of the new Miller cans with the big screw cap on it. The top was back on the can, so unless you're right up on the can, you can't tell if the little tabs on the bottom of the cap have been compromised. I was never asked about the can, just informed that I was receiving a violation for the open container in my vehicle.

I'll take my chances with a jury, and if they decide against me, then I'll pay the fine and move on. 

I appreciate the response. You be careful out there.


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## gitchesum (Nov 18, 2006)

Big Willy said:


> So, how do I get an open bottle from point A to point B on a public road way without breaking the law? I would assume the trunk would work but now I know the backseat obviously won't. What if I am in a pickup truck? Just let the bottle roll around in the bed until I get where I am going? Seems like a strict interpretation of the law to me.


This is what the penal code states regarding the locations of the open container.



> (2) "Passenger area of a motor vehicle" means the area of a motor vehicle designed for the seating of the operator and passengers of the vehicle. The term does not include:
> (A) a glove compartment or similar storage container that is locked;
> (B) the trunk of a vehicle; or
> (C) the area behind the last upright seat of the vehicle, if the vehicle does not have a trunk.


Sounds like the only place in a truck would be either in the bed of the truck, or locked in the glove box.


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## Argo (May 21, 2004)

awesome, just get a locking center console that doubles as a cooler and you can have a cold open container while driving...... who needs to pass it off to a passenger, just put in on ice and lock it up.  like to see that one fought in court.... lmao


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## rockyraider (Feb 1, 2006)

(2) "Passenger area of a motor vehicle" means the area of a motor vehicle designed for the seating of the operator and passengers of the vehicle. The term does not include:
(A) a glove compartment or similar storage container that is locked;
(B) the trunk of a vehicle; or
*(C) the area behind the last upright seat of the vehicle, if the vehicle does not have a trunk.*

Put it behind the last upright seat, if thats an extended cab truck place it behind the back seat. You can also put it in a locked container (glove box or center console) or in the bed of the truck. I would be hard pressed to write a citation to someone who is responsibly transporting a bottle of liquor, especially if they are not drinking and driving. Thats just me though, some would do otherwise I guess.


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## essayons75 (May 15, 2006)

bigpun91 said:


> how many people would be drinking and driving, get pulled over and pass the drink to the passenger, I can see that happening


If driver is DUI, go to jail, if not, who cares.


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## gitchesum (Nov 18, 2006)

rockyraider said:


> (2) "Passenger area of a motor vehicle" means the area of a motor vehicle designed for the seating of the operator and passengers of the vehicle. The term does not include:
> (A) a glove compartment or similar storage container that is locked;
> (B) the trunk of a vehicle; or
> *(C) the area behind the last upright seat of the vehicle, if the vehicle does not have a trunk.*
> ...


My truck is a 2004 quad cab Dodge. The back seat is literally bolted to the rear firewall. You can't get a piece of paper behind it.


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## essayons75 (May 15, 2006)

rockyraider said:


> I guess I'm just one of the softies, I don't write for open container or minor moving/equipment violations very often. Usually its for things like no license, no insurance, dangerous moving violations, etc.... I've learned to not make mountains out of mole hills. A little common sense goes a long way and most of the time citizens appreciate it when we treat them like human beings and understand that everyone makes minor mistakes. I don't know if its worth the hassle of fighting it, only you can make that decision. I've been on the recieving end of an arse chewing by a couple DPS Troopers for minor traffic violations, even with them knowing that I was a cop, and I definately didn't appreciate being treated with a heavy hand. Good luck.


Thanks for understanding...in my 34 year driving career, I have been stopped 3 times, two from guys like you and one not like you, deservingly so for speeding. In 1999, my last pull over I was embarassed in front of my family, wife, boys (2-7), for going 34 in a 20 around a mall parking lot perimeter. I love officers, he thanked me for being so nice to him and not complaining about the ticket, he was very polite, "the city" made him do it. Taxation!


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## essayons75 (May 15, 2006)

htalamant said:


> Gitch,
> 
> I'm another one of the "friendlier" LEOs on here and this is for you and *you only*. I am not typing something for others to pick at and analyze or make smart remarks out of. I'm usually soft spoken and not rude but I'm just going to get right to the point without pulling any punches because I am sure some people will have something to say about this. I have read some of the posts regarding this issue and just to clarify, it is illegal to have ANY open containers in a vehicle. This is in regards to the passenger, driver or whoever in ANY part of a vehicle as long as you're in a public roadway.
> 
> ...


That was a great post! You lay it down so we can understand.

I would like to know why this law was recently pasted (last 2-3 years ago think)? Does it help you catch bad guys (DUI)? Is it a revenue law (tax) or does it really help you get some bad guys?

I can see where open container may help you with a better search, which I personally have no issue with, if you are willing to change my oil and air filter while looking (J/K), but many find it too invasive into their privacy...we all have our opinion.

I am all for you guys getting the bad guys, but why did no open container become law? I'm sure it is for either money for the state or an advocacy group. I hate to see police officers having to inforce a bad law.

Go Blue!


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## berto (Oct 14, 2004)

Big Willy said:


> So, how do I get an open bottle from point A to point B on a public road way without breaking the law? I would assume the trunk would work but now I know the backseat obviously won't. What if I am in a pickup truck? Just let the bottle roll around in the bed until I get where I am going? Seems like a strict interpretation of the law to me.


when i got mine i asked the officer and he told me it had to be in the bed of the truck. nothing like a 60 dollar bottle of crown rolling around in the bed of the truck.


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## deke (Oct 5, 2004)

rockyraider said:


> (2) "Passenger area of a motor vehicle" means the area of a motor vehicle designed for the seating of the operator and passengers of the vehicle. The term does not include:
> (A) a glove compartment or similar storage container that is locked;
> (B) the trunk of a vehicle; or
> *(C) the area behind the last upright seat of the vehicle, if the vehicle does not have a trunk.*
> ...


This is what I was thinking about. We regularly would have a bottle that has been opened before in the truck heading to or coming home from the coast, lease, ect. So is that really an "open container", sounds ticky tack to me. Sounds like another "grey" law that the officer uses his/her judgement on. So as we all know that means more times than not we will not win. About this case, it would seem that he didn't confiscate the container that supposedly broke the law so abviously it wasn't a big concern, more like a $$$ concern. Let him defend his "inactions" in front of the jury. IMO you have a better than average chance, good luck.

I am also surprised deputy dog didn't fly to this LEO's defense? It just isn't a law enforcement thread without his morally superior ego and years of experience. lol


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## htalamant (Mar 31, 2009)

*Thanks Essay!*



essayons75 said:


> That was a great post! You lay it down so we can understand.
> 
> I would like to know why this law was recently pasted (last 2-3 years ago think)? Does it help you catch bad guys (DUI)? Is it a revenue law (tax) or does it really help you get some bad guys?
> 
> ...


Essay,

The open container happens to be one of the two things police cannot arrest someone on. As for the "why's" regarding the open container law, I have no idea, but I just use it to the advantage on those who "need" it such as the gang bangers or the routine, troublesome career alcoholics who have the propensity to hurt themselves or others. It's a great law but with that great law comes a greater responsibility and judgment.

I very rarely give tickets and I am still trying to recover from the Arizona Vs. Gant verdict regarding search incidental to arrest issues :headknock but some things still remain the same regarding search and seizure. Raider touched on something very important and relevant that I overlooked covering the areas not considered part of the passenger area *(the area behind the last upright seat of the vehicle, if the vehicle does not have a trunk). *:cop: I don't think you can go wrong with putting containers inside a cooler in the bed of your truck since it's not considered the passenger area *within your immediate reach. *With that said, having a cooler (locked or opened that can reasonably hold an open container) within reach is a bad idea if that booze can be smelled anywhere from inside the vehicle or if the driver displays symptoms of not being able to "walk the line" :walkingsm straight or do any sobriety tasks :dance: without falling over (that's another thread #1).

I still find DUI's without any open containers or alcohol because intoxication is not just limited to alcohol. The person can be on "bars" (Xanax), Marijuana or some other type of dangerous drug or controlled substance. People do not have a greater expectation to privacy in their vehicles than they do in their homes so "yes," open containers compounds issues and gives law enforcement a right to go into that vehicle to look for more alcohol (another thread #2).

Not to be egotistical or self-righteous, but I try to do my job with the utmost fairness and consideration because I know what it's like to be screwed with something that should have been looked into a lot more closely (but that's yet also a whole other thread #3). In my own honest opinion, tickets can ruin lives which is why I harp on the "fairness" and "necessity" issue regarding them being given out. I know some folks would much rather spend money on food, paying bills and maybe getting something special for their kids or something.

As where the money goes, I am not sure (and please don't' quote me) but I "think" it does go to the Texas Victims Advocacy Group or a portion thereof. There are a lot of non-funded organizations regarding Sexual Assault and Violence Victims in Texas but that is a good question that I need to get smart on! 

And just so you know, as embarrassing as it sounds, I do not know how to change the oil or air filter in my own truck. hwell: Thank goodness for WallyWorld! Now if I can only get turned onto some good fishing, and I'll be all right!! Thanks for those comments though Essay! -Hector


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## WWR (Nov 22, 2006)

It should have been behind the last upright passenger seat. There it isn't illegal. If isn't cold and obviously dry and old I wouldn't miss with it. Actually, I've never written one. I just pour them out on camera.


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## WWR (Nov 22, 2006)

htalamant said:


> I very rarely give tickets and I am still trying to recover from the Arizona Vs. Gant verdict regarding search incidental to arrest issues :headknock but some things still remain the same regarding search and seizure.


That case law is stupid. Belton v. New York (search incident to arrest) is still good case law. In Arizona v. Gant they went and knocked on his door and hooked him up for his warrant. Then searched his car. Retards. That case law has changed the way Galveston Co. DA Bennet looks at search incident to arrest. We been towing a lot.


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## htalamant (Mar 31, 2009)

*Thanks WWR!*



WWR said:


> That case law is stupid. Belton v. New York (search incident to arrest) is still good case law. In Arizona v. Gant they went and knocked on his door and hooked him up for his warrant. Then searched his car. Retards. That case law has changed the way Galveston Co. DA Bennet looks at search incident to arrest. We been towing a lot.


Thanks WWR! At least someone here agrees with me on that topic! I don't mean to turn this into a police forum, but we recently had a judge cite Arizona vs. Gant that dictated the outcome for a cocaine possession case thrown out. (Nobody could decide whether it was a search or inventory so the judge threw it out like a bad tamale! That case did not involve me whatsoever but I have to admit my feathers did get ruffled seeing that federal parolee P.O.S. "high-fiving" his civil rights attorney when the verdict was read!) :hairout:

The ruling in Arizona vs. Gant was favored 5-4! Although the majority denied that it is overruling Belton, it admits that it will be very rare for an arrestee to be unsecured and within reach of his or her vehicle while the arresting officer is searching it. So, this limits Belton to its unusual facts (an officer with one set of handcuffs and no backup arrested several suspects during a roadside stop), and spells the end of routine vehicle searches incident to arrest.

In New York vs. Belton, the US Supreme Court held that when a policeman has made a lawful custodial arrest of the occupant of an automobile, he may, as a contemporaneous incident of that arrest, search the passenger compartment of that automobile.

I recently confiscated a "considerable amount" of cocaine and hydro on a traffic stop by someone trying to pull that Arizona vs. Gant **** on me...and got it all the way to grand jury for prosecution!! :dance: You just have to know how to play the game as I am sure you know how, but you can always err on the side of caution and use the "inventory" rule. We've actually found rolling meth labs during an inventory of vehicles so I think we'll be "OK" for now as far as law enforcement and the public is concerned. But thanks for having my back WWR! -Hector


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## Won Hunglo (Apr 24, 2007)

I bet next time you will toss that can out the window & take the littering fine instead.:biggrin:


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## Joester (May 22, 2008)

dabear said:


> I could only read the first 4 or 5 replies and it ****** me off.The guy did not ask for any smart a** remarks he was just asking for some assistance.Some people are always first to start ragging on someone.If he decides to fight it and looses he gets what is deserved and if he fights it and wins he done good.The man did not say he was drunk or out drinking until he got drunk he just said he had a open container.I am so sick of all you law abidding people that at one time probably broke the law and never got caught so now you are perfect.I am a law abidding citizen and sometimes after work i stop and get a cold one,so now i am a criminal.I say no so all you opininiated a**holes shut up and let the man ask for some help.Is that so hard.and if you didnt like it dont comment.


Sickem....lol And YES, I know where your coming from. Some folks just gotta throw their 2 cents in...lol


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## Slim-N-None (Sep 16, 2005)

Won Hunglo said:


> I bet next time you will toss that can out the window & take the littering fine instead.:biggrin:


i was just thinking throwing it in the bed of the truck and letting it *possibly* blow out would be cheaper. :bounce:


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## Timemachine (Nov 25, 2008)

wormburner 1 said:


> You know if you'd just obey the law you wouldn't have to worry about how to swindle your way out of a tciket. Grow up, people like you are why everyone elses insurance is so high.


I'm with wormerburner on this one.


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## gitchesum (Nov 18, 2006)

Timemachine said:


> I'm with wormerburner on this one.


You're certainly entitled to your opinion, just answer two questions for to validate it.

1. If a empty beer can is not considered an open container according to the Texas Penal Code, how is it possible for the violation ti be valid.

2. Please explain to me how successfully fighting 
a non-moving violation equal higher insurance costs for anyone?


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## christopher_mendoza2005 (Mar 24, 2009)

i dont think you can beat it. i dont want to be an a-hole or anything and i'm sure you were'nt doing anything wrong at the time, but the law of open container in a vehicle is written because it is under the assumption that an empty can in the car was at one time full (or had some liquid in it inside the vehicle), and it had to get empty somehow. and as soon as the police officer wrote you the ticket and drove off, you made the possibility of fighting it 10X worse. i think it sucks for you because i'm sure you weren't doing anything wrong and just had some bad luck that day, but then again under no circumstance should there have been an empty beer can in your vehicle. and if it was there for a while and you didnt know about it or forgot about it, clean your car more often. next time, just be more careful.


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## gitchesum (Nov 18, 2006)

Run out this scenario for me.

You're at the beach/river/any other outdoor event, and you're buddy has one beer and you have none. Being a responsible person, you gather up your trash, but don't have a bag to put it in, so you put it inside your truck to take it home to properly dispose of it.

Before you get home, you get pulled over for having a tail light out and the officer sees the empty beer can in your car. You aren't asked about it, but are written the ticket for open container anyway. Would you just hand over $260 to the city and say "Oh well"?

I've never successfully convinced a police officer to remove a violation once it's written down on the ticket. I don't see any reason to start now. The court system is there for a reason. You should always fight to clear your name if you are wrongly accused.

Like I said before, if the law states an empty beer can in the passenger area of a car is considered an open container, then I would simply pay the fine and go on my way, bit that's not how it is. Trust me, it would be real easy for me to just write a check and make this go away, but I'm going to pay for something when I wasn't doing anything wrong here.


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## christopher_mendoza2005 (Mar 24, 2009)

gitchesum said:


> Run out this scenario for me.
> 
> You're at the beach/river/any other outdoor event, and you're buddy has one beer and you have none. Being a responsible person, you gather up your trash, but don't have a bag to put it in, so you put it inside your truck to take it home to properly dispose of it.
> 
> ...


first off, if your buddy just had a beer and you picked up the trash and were on your way home straight from the get-together, chances are there will still be residue in the can, no matter how many times you slashed it around to get it all out. Plus it doesn't matter if it was your buddies or not, its in your car, in your possesion. remember, possesion is 9/10th of the law. So, that being said, look at it from the officers point of view, a guy driving around and has an empty can of beer in his car, he may not have been drinking from it then, but he may have in a previous outing, (yeah, it sucks but the law is not on your side on this one, no matter who its worded or you try to INTERPRET it) and look how the judge is going to look at it. a fellow person entrusted with enforcing the law (the officer) pulls over a guy with an open and empty beer container, period. thats all the judge is going to have to go with because thats whats on the ticket a police officer wrote. hmmmmm, who will the judge believe, the odds are already against you. now, you have to try and prove, BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT, (and the doubt against YOU is reasonable), that not only was the can without residue at the time of the ticket, but that it wasn't yours to begin with. so explain to me how you are going to do that perry mason? Look, i'm not attacking you and in fact i feel for you. innocent until proven guilty right? your situation sucks, but youre difinitely in some weird loophole where the law will not get you out of someone elses mishap. i only give you this opinion to help save you youre time and more money you would have to pay. ask a lawyer for a free consultation and if they say you can fight it, do it, (but most would tell you to bite the bullet) but you better hope you get stuck with a judge who doesnt give a turd about whats going on that day and is just super lenient. GOOD LUCK.:clover::clover::clover::clover::clover::clover: (even this may not be enough)


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## 11andy11 (Aug 12, 2004)

dude all you can do is go down there a fight it if you feel its undeserving. Who knows, the cop might not even show up to court.


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## Seabass (May 22, 2004)

"Now, the open container consisted of one empty beer can, on the rear passenger floorboard. Not even sure how long it had been there."

Gitch..the only thing I can think of is that the officer ticketed you based on the "letter of the law" and not the "intent of the law". If the cop saw you drinking a beer...started to pull you over....you finished it and threw it on the back floorboard...i can kind of see justification for that. But I don't know the PC for your stop..was it the tail lights? 

I think you said the officer never checked the container...is that right? There are already 6 pages to this thread .. I don't wanna go back and look at all the replies. If he didn't inspect the can for evidence then shame on him. I suggest finding out if he had video for the traffic stop, subpoena that evidence and review it. He should have retrieved the can, smelled it, poured out any contents, etc, as neccessary to investigate whether or not there was any alcohol in the can. Lemme know how your case goes...I really wanna know. PM me if u need to. 

Seabass


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## christopher_mendoza2005 (Mar 24, 2009)

also, most police officers, on the back of the tickets, write down every word you say (everything can and will be used against you, right?) in response to that ticket. they do it because we all know that if they write a ticket 3-4 months prior to a court date and someone wants to fight it, how do they remember what happened, right? well them doing writing the conversation on the backs of the tickets is how they remember what happened. if you raised hell and said the can was clear of residue and what not, he would probably write that down saying in court that you denied it. it might have helped you a little in this case, but you didnt say a word.


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## christopher_mendoza2005 (Mar 24, 2009)

11andy11 said:


> dude all you can do is go down there a fight it if you feel its undeserving. Who knows, the cop might not even show up to court.


 thats also very true, good point. chances are if he's pleading guilty to all the other stuff, maybe theyre getting enough money from him to not worry about this. but at the same time, with the economy and all, many more officers are showing up to court these days for that extra overtime (which might i add is pretty good pay).


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## Seabass (May 22, 2004)

Ok...I just read your last repsonse dated at 1526 hrs. If that is the way it happened, then I have a real problem with the guy that gave you the ticket. I go camping on PINS alot...and drink beer while I'm down there. I pick up all my trash and some that didn't belong to me. I sack every can and piece of refuse around my campsite, then haul it back to the dumpsters at the entrance of PINS. There are usually alot of empty beer cans in the passenger compartment of my suburban (some in trash bags, some in a 5 gallon bucket) which I am bound by law to deliver to a proper receptacle. And I do it every time. The fluid in those cans were long since dispensed into a liver. What agency gave you the ticket? Just wondering..

Seabass


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## WWR (Nov 22, 2006)

htalamant said:


> Thanks WWR! At least someone here agrees with me on that topic! I don't mean to turn this into a police forum, but we recently had a judge cite Arizona vs. Gant that dictated the outcome for a cocaine possession case thrown out. (Nobody could decide whether it was a search or inventory so the judge threw it out like a bad tamale! That case did not involve me whatsoever but I have to admit my feathers did get ruffled seeing that federal parolee P.O.S. "high-fiving" his civil rights attorney when the verdict was read!) :hairout:
> 
> The ruling in Arizona vs. Gant was favored 5-4! Although the majority denied that it is overruling Belton, it admits that it will be very rare for an arrestee to be unsecured and within reach of his or her vehicle while the arresting officer is searching it. So, this limits Belton to its unusual facts (an officer with one set of handcuffs and no backup arrested several suspects during a roadside stop), and spells the end of routine vehicle searches incident to arrest.
> 
> ...


Consent is easy too. And we have a K9 at our disposal at all times. We will tow it if things must go that way. But I'm pretty good at verbal judo which leads me to probable cause.:smile:


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## gitchesum (Nov 18, 2006)

According to the documents I received when I got the tickets, the othe 3 violations will dismissed with a fee since all three violations were brought into compliance in the proper amount of time.

I immediately renewed my license, the truck was covered by insurance, and I have proof of that(I just didn't have me card at the time), and the taillights have been replaced by stock tail lights. 

I've never fought a ticket without a lawyer, so I don't know if I can talk to the city attorney prior to my court date. If I can, maybe we can discuss the issues around the case and determine if it's even worth my time and effort to fight it.


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## Bily Lovec (Sep 26, 2005)

be sure and drag that pregnant wife to court w/u also, barefoot and curlers in her hair


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## gitchesum (Nov 18, 2006)

Bily Lovec said:


> be sure and drag that pregnant wife to court w/u also, barefoot and curlers in her hair


The little one should be arriving a couple of weeks prior to the court date. But don't think that thought didn't cross my mind.


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## slopoke (Jul 10, 2005)

Bily Lovec said:


> be sure and drag that pregnant wife to court w/u also, barefoot and curlers in her hair


I like this idea. Good stradegy!


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## Bobby (May 21, 2004)

You can talk to the DA but you can't talk to the Judge.


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## Friendswoodmatt (Feb 22, 2005)

You know I have been stopped by LE a number of times, speeding etc. It seems to me that when I have been courteous, IE Yes Sir no sir etc. I have fared well. But when I talked **** I have not faired well. I am not saying you did, but is it possible you might have been angry about the stop and said something that the officer could view as disrespectful? It seems to me looking at all of the tickets you got- that this LE was pretty PO'd and looking for anything to get you on. 
Good luck


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## gitchesum (Nov 18, 2006)

Actually, the officer was more upset with me than I was with him. I was totally at fault for the reason he pulled me over.

The actual reason for the stop was entirely my fault. I was on the beltway service road and the car in front of me was literally doing 10 mph and I couldn't get around him. We got stopped at a stoplight, and when he took off, he still ent 10 mph until he got to a driveway and pulled off. At that point, I stabbed the go pedal, which I really shouldn't have doon with no boost and left a sizable cloud of black smoke. I never exceeded the speed limit, but the officer behind sure didn't appreciate driving through the smoke and pulled me over.

It was completely unintentional, as I really don't like to blow smoke at anyone especially a police officer.

As far as attitude goes, like I mentioned before, my father has been a police officer almost my whole life, I know several other police officers including my neighbor. I don't mouth off, it's "yes sir, no sir, thank you sir". Those guys catch enough hell from other folks, no need to add to it.

And before any of the Yahoo's spout off about the cloud of smoke being the reason I got pulled over which lead to the open container ticket, yeah, I know that.

As far as not getting a ticket for the smoke, I'm not sure what that would fall under. I figured it would fall under a defective equipment violation, but he decided to go with the dark tail lights instead?


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## webfisher3 (Jul 27, 2007)

christopher_mendoza2005 said:


> i dont think you can beat it. i dont want to be an a-hole or anything and i'm sure you were'nt doing anything wrong at the time, but the law of open container in a vehicle is written because it is under the assumption that an empty can in the car was at one time full (or had some liquid in it inside the vehicle), and it had to get empty somehow. and as soon as the police officer wrote you the ticket and drove off, you made the possibility of fighting it 10X worse. i think it sucks for you because i'm sure you weren't doing anything wrong and just had some bad luck that day, but then again under no circumstance should there have been an empty beer can in your vehicle. and if it was there for a while and you didnt know about it or forgot about it, clean your car more often. next time, just be more careful.


I don't want to be an a-hole either but, your village is missing you!!


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## Vee3 (Mar 15, 2005)

Not to hyjack, but have you ever thrown smoke at some young kid with all the windows down without the courtesy to turn down the tunes at the stop light? ...That is THE reason I'll get a smoke maker for my diesel if I ever do. 

On another note about the 'reasonable, friendly cops'. I was flagged for 53 in a 30 once (on Calder and I KNOW that's well monitored...stupid on my part) and the cop, upon receiving my CHL, asked if I was armed. Sure, I said. Where is it? she asked. On my right hip, I said. She asked for it (slowly) and I cooperated. She unloaded it and handed the empty gun back. confused. After handing me the substantial ticket, she commented on me having 'the good ammo' and asked if I was stocking up. We talked several minutes on guns, ammo, assault weapons, etc. Nice visit after writing me a ticket I could have been taken to jail for!

I bet the smoke just tick'd the guy off. Cops are people, too. Everyone has their peves. My Dad, a Dallas PD, wrote a ticket to everyone he ever saw backing into an intersection (his peve, I don't know why).



gitchesum said:


> Actually, the officer was more upset with me than I was with him. I was totally at fault for the reason he pulled me over.
> 
> <snip>
> 
> It was completely unintentional, as I really don't like to blow smoke at anyone especially a police officer.


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## Northsider (Feb 19, 2008)

Slim-N-None said:


> i was just thinking throwing it in the bed of the truck and letting it *possibly* blow out would be cheaper. :bounce:





Won Hunglo said:


> I bet next time you will toss that can out the window & take the littering fine instead.:biggrin:


Both great ideas...:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:


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## FREON (Jun 14, 2005)

wormburner 1 said:


> You know if you'd just obey the law you wouldn't have to worry about how to swindle your way out of a tciket. Grow up, people like you are why everyone elses insurance is so high.


 What is it that Infamoose says/ Oh yeah, now I remember...." Fuggin Moron "


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## FREON (Jun 14, 2005)

I once got of a ticket where I was charged with having an alcoholic beverage at a high school game. Only problem for the LEO was that he poured my drink out and when we went to court he had no evidence. I won. So if hte LEO never even touched your can or took it into his possession for evidence, IMO you might be able to win your case even without a lawyer. IMO it is worth the effort to go to court.


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## predator22 (Feb 2, 2005)

As far as police officers are concerned I have had some really great professional officers pull me over and some that would make Mother Theresa lose her cool. 

Last year in League City off of 518 I had a women police officer pull me over for speeding, and not only did she just give me a warning but she was also really good looking. That was the best warning I ever received. My wife didnt quite find the humor in that story. 

On the whole open container thing I would just go by the rule that if your beer can is closed, its therefore not open, and henceforth not applicable to state laws, fines, or penalities. But hey, what the **** do I know! 

I wouldnt so much be asking myself why I got an open container as I would be asking why I let my license expire. But thats just me, each to their own and I hope it all works out for you. Nobody likes a ticket especially if it is a questionable ticket. Good luck to you.


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## Fish-a-mon (May 21, 2004)

Ok here is what Ive gathered. Worm the village is missing it's idiot. For the OP: Fight it. If the LEO did not hold the can, inspect the can or take the can. He has no evidence. This is a waste of public money. Had the LEO confiscated the can or inspected it you would not have a case. The waste started when LEO failed to inspect just wrote the ticket. Now there will be a judge ADA clerk bailiff time spent on something that they can not prove. Only evidence they have is nothing, the LEO's word that a can was there, but he does not know if it was opened or whether it was empty. As far as the common sense LEO on board, could you educate your coworkers.


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## gimp6969 (Feb 20, 2008)

I'm thirsty!!


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## BATWING (May 9, 2008)

mastercylinder said:


> maybe you should consider a career in law enforcement.


LMAO !!!! Greens to ya..


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## Cope (Oct 11, 2005)

bigpun91 said:


> how many people would be drinking and driving, get pulled over and pass the drink to the passenger, I can see that happening


That's why the law was passed.


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## gitchesum (Nov 18, 2006)

Just curious, but why would it matter when the alcohol is consumed as long as the driver isn't drunk.

What's the difference between drinking a beer at your house, and jumping in the car to run to the store versus grabbing a beer on the way out the door and drinking it in the truck on the way there? Note, I'm talking one beer, not enough to impair your driving abilities.

Disclaimer: I'm not in any way advocating driving while impaired, but I'm sure it will be taken that way by some.


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## Cope (Oct 11, 2005)

gitchesum said:


> You're certainly entitled to your opinion, just answer two questions for to validate it.
> 
> 1. If a empty beer can is not considered an open container according to the Texas Penal Code, how is it possible for the violation ti be valid.
> 
> ...


Possibly he was referring to the other two violations.

"A few weeks ago, I got pulled over and given a ticket for a few violations. Expired License, couldn't find my insurance card, defective equipment(darkened tail lights) and an open container."

I'm trying to be objective here; you were probably pulled over for the lights. If your TDL and insurance were in order, you might have gotten a warning, and he might not have even looked for the beer can.

IMO, the open container ticket and the one for no insurance should be contested. You were guilty on the lights and license, so you will probably wind up paying the fine on those two.


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## Ted Gentry (Jun 8, 2004)

FREON said:


> I once got of a ticket where I was charged with having an alcoholic beverage at a high school game. Only problem for the LEO was that he poured my drink out and when we went to court he had no evidence. I won. So if hte LEO never even touched your can or took it into his possession for evidence, IMO you might be able to win your case even without a lawyer. IMO it is worth the effort to go to court.


I can only come up with two thoughts on you having an alcoholic beverage at the game. Number one you expected your team to win and you planned on an after party and number two there was a chance that your team might not win and planned on a next time party. Don't see a problem with either one but I'm sure the do gooders will turn loose about right now. Good luck next time.:brew:


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## christopher_mendoza2005 (Mar 24, 2009)

webfisher3 said:


> I don't want to be an a-hole either but, your village is missing you!!


 i can see why your rep power is 0. stick to smelling your own farts dude. its not cool to take a constructive suggestion meant for someone else personally and get your butt hurt about it when you probably dont know whats going on. what i said was directed towards gitch and was said with his interests in mind based on my opinion. now go highjack another thread and post your tard opinion in the "free stuff" section and see if anyone bites.


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## christopher_mendoza2005 (Mar 24, 2009)

guys in this thread, i apologize for the post above, but it ticks me off when some guy who aparently doesnt post much on here after being on here for a few years has to chime in even though he has had nothing else to say in this thread. in no post in this thread have i tried to be fecicious (though i may be guilty in others) and i have had much respect for everyones opinion on here no matter what you think gitch needs to do, and it bothers me when someone adds their inflated $.02 that in no way had anything to do with whats this thread was intended.


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## Avid reader (Aug 11, 2005)

Gosh village idiot, I mean Christopher, I must have realllllly been stupid to believe that the government had to prove you guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, not the other way round.

avid


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## gitchesum (Nov 18, 2006)

Well, a somewhat anti-climatic ending to the saga.

Officer didn't show, all offenses dismissed.

Part of me would have liked to have seen the outcome had he showed.

The part of me that would have to pay the fines had it not gone my way is telling that other part to shut up.


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## htalamant (Mar 31, 2009)

You know Gitch..I was wondering whatever happened with this. So did you drive off and celebrate with another beer? Just kidding man...glad it got dismissed 'cause I remember reading the story about what happened and was kinda worried. -Hector


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## bwguardian (Aug 30, 2005)

gitchesum said:


> Well, a somewhat anti-climatic ending to the saga.
> 
> Officer didn't show, all offenses dismissed.
> 
> ...


Good deal! I can't tell you how many times that happened to me in my younger days when I had several tickets in hand...exhibition of acceleration, speeding, etc....and the officer would not show and the tickets would be dismissed.


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## Blk Jck 224 (Oct 16, 2009)

berto said:


> when i got mine i asked the officer and he told me it had to be in the bed of the truck. nothing like a 60 dollar bottle of crown rolling around in the bed of the truck.


Santa needs to bring you a tool box for Christmas. I keep mine fully stocked & tightly locked. Never know when you might need that bottle of Crown, I mean Cruzan, err Tito's.....:cheers:


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## gitchesum (Nov 18, 2006)

htalamant said:


> You know Gitch..I was wondering whatever happened with this. So did you drive off and celebrate with another beer? Just kidding man...glad it got dismissed 'cause I remember reading the story about what happened and was kinda worried. -Hector


Thanks Hector, I appreciate the info from the start.

I was ready, copy of the penal code, clean empty can to show you can't tell if it really was an open container from his vantage point.

Don't believe there will be a next time though.


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## FISHNNUTT (Oct 27, 2007)

gitchesum said:


> Thanks Hector, I appreciate the info from the start.
> 
> I was ready, copy of the penal code, clean empty can to show you can't tell if it really was an open container from his vantage point.
> 
> Don't believe there will be a next time though.


Guess everything worked out for the best then!:biggrin:


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## PasadenaMan (Dec 5, 2007)

Sister in law got one for her dudes beer and she could not cant shake that off.


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## PasadenaMan (Dec 5, 2007)

Ok, now i read the full thread. Glad it was dismissed


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## monkeyman1 (Dec 30, 2007)

a rhetorical musing, but i wonder what percentage of 2coolers have had an open container (with alcohol in it, illegally) since the law was passed.

not asking for answers, don't want em...just a thought.


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## MEGABITE (May 21, 2004)

It's a ridiculous law IMO. One beer on the way home from work is not going to get someone drunk or impair them. Thank MADD and kneejerk legislators for this. And don't even get me started on LEOs writing tickets for old, empty beer cans...


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## Fubar (Jun 10, 2005)

the key phrase within the law "contains". Empty....your a free willie, you just have to prove it a court of law. Odds are, the cop doesn't show up. You lose time and $$$ either way. 

Next question: How much is your time worth?


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## gitchesum (Nov 18, 2006)

Cost me $6.00 to park. And about an hour and a half of my time.

Since I'm on salary, I avoid trying to figure out what my hourly rate it. 

I did manage to take care of a pretty good amount of work via the Blackberry though.


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## capn_billl (Sep 12, 2007)

Glad it worked out, the fines catch the guilty, the lazy, the uninformed, and the too busy. I was in a simular situation a couple of months ago. I was able to cut a deal with the court clerk, (and judge) to dismiss all but 1 charge, if I pled no contest and paid 1 of the fines, (reduced). I took it, easier than going to court. (for both of us).


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## monkeyman1 (Dec 30, 2007)

glad it worked out for gitchesum. another ticket that is easily dismissed, according to my contact, is one for no liability insurance. the thought of a bunch of people getting off this one ticks me off - costs us all more in premiums because some don't have liability even tho breaking the law.


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## CoastalOutfitters (Aug 20, 2004)

fold the back seat down, it is no longer a passenger area, it is now a cargo area.

put yer likker bottles in the ice chest in the truck bed

don't use beer cans for spit cans

class dissmissed.............


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## gitchesum (Nov 18, 2006)

CoastalOutfitters said:


> *fold the back seat down, it is no longer a passenger area, it is now a cargo area.*
> 
> put yer likker bottles in the ice chest in the truck bed
> 
> ...


Hmm, something I hadn't though of. The rear seat was actually in the raised position. In the Dodge truck, the bottom of the seat flips up onto the rear wall.

I wonder if that would make it the cargo area, or still the passenger area.


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## Mako$Money (Aug 28, 2009)

I would like to say thanks to all the honest cops that try to give their best advice to us folks on here that really need it at times. SO! Thanks to our fellow 2 cooler OFFICERS who are honest policeman. Not trying to hi jack this thread but thanks is do to the policemen who lend their advice to this thread to help out. It sure makes me have a different outlook toward alot of LEO's. I have been stopped by some real Pr*&k's just wanting to show their authority. Glad you officers on here are not like some of the others. Thanks


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## jamisjockey (Jul 30, 2009)

Go to court. Explain to the judge that you often pick up other people's trash, and that you found the can, and intended to dispose of it properly. Its your word against his, and in the letter of the law you were probably in violation, but a judges job is to mediate the situation and decide if punishing you for it is really necessary.

Took the wife and dogs on a hike once in Utah. On the way back out of the canyon, we came across the contents of an entire 12 pack of beer, empty, and spread across the trail. I picked up the box and cans and put it in the back of our SUV. On the way out, we hit a DUI checkpoint. Deputy was giving me a rash of **** about it, and intended to write me a ticket, despite my explanation. I demanded his supervisor, who just happened to be at the checkpoint. He suggested I dispose of the cans at the first available public trash recepticle, and to have a good day.


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## waterspout (May 21, 2004)

is there really a law about no OPEN containers? never heard of such a thing...:cheers:


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## slopoke (Jul 10, 2005)

waterspout said:


> is there really a law about no OPEN containers?* never heard of such a thing*...:cheers:


Imagine that!


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## RAYSOR (Apr 26, 2007)

wormburner 1 said:


> You know if you'd just obey the law you wouldn't have to worry about how to swindle your way out of a tciket. Grow up, people like you are why everyone elses insurance is so high.


x2


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## waterspout (May 21, 2004)

wormburner 1 said:


> You know if you'd just obey the law you wouldn't have to worry about how to swindle your way out of a tciket. Grow up, people like you are why everyone elses insurance is so high.


Actually I was thinking more along the lines of when you grow up,,(get a lil age with no tickets) maybe your insurance will go down... :spineyes:

Mine isn't high And I enjoy the opportunity of getting to support a local business by paying it.


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## 2slick (Dec 5, 2008)

jamisjockey said:


> Go to court. Explain to the judge that you often pick up other people's trash, and that you found the can, and intended to dispose of it properly. Its your word against his, and in the letter of the law you were probably in violation, but a judges job is to mediate the situation and decide if punishing you for it is really necessary.
> 
> Took the wife and dogs on a hike once in Utah. On the way back out of the canyon, we came across the contents of an entire 12 pack of beer, empty, and spread across the trail. I picked up the box and cans and put it in the back of our SUV. On the way out, we hit a DUI checkpoint. Deputy was giving me a rash of **** about it, and intended to write me a ticket, despite my explanation. I demanded his supervisor, who just happened to be at the checkpoint. He suggested I dispose of the cans at the first available public trash recepticle, and to have a good day.


So, you would encourage someone to go to court and lie? I just don't think that is very good advice. If the ticket could be beat fine, but I sure wouldn't have lied about it.


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## fishtale (Aug 24, 2006)

Congrats Gitcha, I figured you'd win based on the evidence, even if the cop didn't show.


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## goatchze (Aug 1, 2006)

gitchesum said:


> Hmm, something I hadn't though of. The rear seat was actually in the raised position. In the Dodge truck, the bottom of the seat flips up onto the rear wall.
> 
> I wonder if that would make it the cargo area, or still the passenger area.


I've wondered this too. I drive a Jeep and to increase my storage capacity, I've completely removed the rear "fold and tumble" seat. I have no trunk and the front seats are now the most rearward seats.

Does this mean that the beer cans I toss back there while driving at the ranch are OK? I have forgotten about those only to find them a week or two later....

As to your case Gitche, I wonder why he didnt' show? Could it be that he didn't think the ticket would hold up or that it would be discovered that he cited you for an open container but did not take it from you?? Hmm....


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## waterspout (May 21, 2004)

goatchze said:


> As to your case Gitche, *I wonder why he didnt' show*? Could it be that he didn't think the ticket would hold up or that it would be discovered that he cited you for an open container but did not take it from you?? Hmm....


It's one of the LEO's here and he felt bad after the public discussion :rotfl:


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## B2 (Jun 11, 2004)

If the container contains no alcohol, you win. It's that simple.


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## Lav20 (Mar 22, 2005)

christopher_mendoza2005 said:


> i dont think you can beat it. i dont want to be an a-hole or anything and i'm sure you were'nt doing anything wrong at the time, *but the law of open container in a vehicle is written because it is under the assumption that an empty can in the car was at one time full (or had some liquid in it inside the vehicle), and it had to get empty somehow.* and as soon as the police officer wrote you the ticket and drove off, you made the possibility of fighting it 10X worse. i think it sucks for you because i'm sure you weren't doing anything wrong and just had some bad luck that day, but then again under no circumstance should there have been an empty beer can in your vehicle. and if it was there for a while and you didnt know about it or forgot about it, clean your car more often. next time, just be more careful.


What if you told the officer you picked it off the ground to helping Texas stay Clean, and were going to throw it out at the next garbage can.


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## htalamant (Mar 31, 2009)

waterspout said:


> It's one of the LEO's here and he felt bad after the public discussion :rotfl:


I wonder which LEO it was..ha! ha! 



Mako$Money said:


> I would like to say thanks to all the honest cops that try to give their best advice to us folks on here that really need it at times. SO! Thanks to our fellow 2 cooler OFFICERS who are honest policeman. Not trying to hi jack this thread but thanks is do to the policemen who lend their advice to this thread to help out. It sure makes me have a different outlook toward a lot of LEO's. I have been stopped by some real Pr*&k's just wanting to show their authority. Glad you officers on here are not like some of the others. Thanks



Thanks for the comment Mako. I'm about the "spirit" of the law rather than the letter of it. I have read plenty of comments on here with plenty of "bad" advice and misnomers. There is also some very good advice by folks who have been around and I was "shocked" on the knowledge of some of the folks on here regarding this topic. Bottom line, Gitch got off, and I am glad he did 'cause I am most positive if he was drinking a beer and in the wrong, he would of fessed up and taken responsibility rather than risk embarrassment by asking for a way out by deceiving the system. What Gitch asked for was, "help" and he asked for it by us 2 Coolers.

Another 2Cooler asked if anyone on here has actually driven around with an open container before. On my polygraph exam, this came out and I have fessed up. It's all about if you "grow" out of it. Anyone that says they never made a mistake in their lives *is* a *liar*. I make mistakes every day (not of this magnitude) so truth be told, "Yes," (as embarrassing as it is) I have done that in the past before. 

I come across open containers in vehicles a lot and it's all about judgment. You may come across a cop who may be understanding and tolerable. You may come across one that isn't. Just be sure that you're not in the wrong for it to be an issue in the first place. :wink: -Hector


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## jarrod croaker (May 31, 2008)

*help me understand*



wormburner 1 said:


> You know if you'd just obey the law you wouldn't have to worry about how to swindle your way out of a tciket. Grow up, people like you are why everyone elses insurance is so high.


how do non moving violations or any tickets for that matter make every one elses insurance rates go up


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