# Rod Spine



## Bird (May 10, 2005)

It never ceases to amaze me the number of rods I pick up at a tackle store and find that the guides don't line up with the spine . What gives? Am I putting too much effort into this or what? All of the rods I buy or build are spot on the spine or opposite the spine and they cast and feel great. Is this truly the difference between a quality custom rod or a G Loomis quality rod and a less 'expensive' rod?


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## dicklaxt (Jun 2, 2005)

I thought I read somewhere recently where the Spine location reference was no longer of any appreciable(sp) difference
It will be interesting to see the fallout here on this subject.

dick


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## 123456 (Apr 6, 2005)

Ok, I'm going to give you my .02 here about the spine of a rod. 
If I built up two identical casting rods one built *on* the spine and one that was *not* built on the spine and handed them both to you and not tell you which was which and let you cast them both, I have a hard time believing you could tell the difference. I think the difference in a custom and a production rod is the guide placement and the number of guides used. Most production rods dont have enough guides and aren't spaced correctly, IMO. Also the quality of the components and the time spent on proper placement of those components per the customers needs or wants on a custom is what sets these rods apart in my opinion.
With that said, I dont "spine" my rods anymore. I think it is one of those rod building "things" we were all taught in the beginning that you "had" to do to make a good custom rod. I now build all my rods on the straightest part of the rod and havent had any complaints thus far. Now, dont get me wrong if you want to spine your rods by all means do so and theres nothing wrong with that.

(I'm sure i'm missing something here, but its 3:15 in the a.m. and ready to go home from work.) Zzzzzzzzzz!!
Hope this helps,
Noel


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## Chongo (May 24, 2004)

It may be the old school in me but I still believe that building a rod on the spine is an intricate part of building a custom rod. I will concede that 99 % of the fisherman may not be able to tell the difference but that being said 99% of the people are content with a rod right off the self. Accuracy of casting, ease of loading up the rod and power to the hook set are all directly related to the location of the spine. These attributes are even more prevalent in fly rods. Production rod builders feel that they don't have the time to teach the physics behind rod crafting to the employees they have and now feel that this is an unnecessary step. This is also true with static testing a blank for proper guide placement and proper number of guides. More now than in the resent past in has been a never ending learning curve to stay up with the new technology of component parts. This is not a bad thing and we as rod crafters were in need of it. The lighter more sensitive blanks, IMHO, have left the door open to the way of the short cut. I door I refuse to walk through. With this being said I WILL LEAVE YOU ALL WITH THIS THOUGHT.

Rod Crafting is an honorable and individual effort. Being individuals we all do things a bit deferent. Build the best rod that you can and walk away from it pleased with what you have created. 

Tight wraps,

Chongo


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## jcasisa (May 21, 2004)

I think you would most surely notice a difference in your casting accuracy and in the feel of the rod. Not building on the spine makes the rod want to twist so that the bend is on the spine and the more load you put on the rod the more twist you will get. Ever wonder why sometimes your wrist or forearm hurts more with some rods? That is your reaction to fighting the torque. You really feel it in heavier rods, maybe not so much in lighter bay rods.

-John


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## fin_adik (Aug 8, 2005)

I gotta say spine is important. I build alot of fly rods and I have experimented with guide placement. With fly rods if the guides are on the wrong side of the blank when the caster goes to pick up the tip for the backcast the rod "gives" and does not load as well. Then on the forward cast you will not have the best stroke again b/c of poor flex in the rod. Fly casteres dont cast the fly they cast the fly line, lots of weight and length. Its all completely based on momentum and timing. Screw this up and it simply wont perform.


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## 123456 (Apr 6, 2005)

I will concede that not building on the spine would make more of a difference on a fly rod. 
Any rod will twist no matter where you put the guides, on the spine or not on the spine, its not a relationship to the spine location that torques the rod its the relationship to the guide placement. Your connection to the fish (your line) will try to find the lowest point when the rod is under load no matter where the spine is.

Guys, this is all healthy discussion here not trying to ruffle any feathers. We all have our opinions so lets try not to take this stuff personally, ok.
Take care,
Noel


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## Chongo (May 24, 2004)

Noel,
I do not see where anyone has taken anything personally. You are correct in that a rod under load, with a fish, will attempt to locate at the lowest point on the rod. This is why spinning tackle does not exhibit the twist of a bait caster. This also is the theory behind the Spiral Wrap that has came back into the scene here of late. 
We all as Rod Crafter have determend, to what we believe, to be the best way to build the best fishing rod that we can. Trying new techniques is what advanced our craft from the beginning. We have tried and failed in the past as it will be in the future. One good idea advances the craft leaps and bounds. 
Necessity is the mother of invention. That being said.
Good Luck and Tight Wraps,

Chongo


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## 123456 (Apr 6, 2005)

Chongo,
No noone has taken anything personally, I just wanted to nip it in the bud before that happened. Not trying to make any enemies overhere just wanna have a good old fashion debate. Good topic so far I think.
Noel


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## 123456 (Apr 6, 2005)

Chongo,
Next time i'm down your way (Seargent) maybe we can get together. I"d love to see some of your work.
Now where is that Ellisredfish at??? I need someone else in my corner on this spine thing!!!
Noel


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## Chongo (May 24, 2004)

Debate is allways good. Even for those that watch from the sidelines. LOL
A few days ago I wach a vidio of a taped program of another Master Rod Crafter on how to build a basic fishing rod for begginers. As I watch there were several things that he did in his technique that I disagreed with. Yet this Master Rod Crafter is a third generation rod crafter with a fourth coming up through the ranks. they have been in buisness for over 75 years. Is what I believed to be wrong going to change the way I do thing. Not a chance. If I had seen a technique that I believed may improve my product I would not hesitate in trying it. 
Folks this is all part of the learning curve that is associated with Rod Building. Hell it what makes it so much fun. 
I hope everyone keeps up with this topic. I am intersested to see what becomes of it.

Tight Wraps,

Chongo


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## Chongo (May 24, 2004)

Noel,
I'm sorry I missed your second post. Anytime your in my area let me know. I am always at home if I am not fishing, Picking up parts, Weight Mastering a Tournament, fishing a Tournament or doing the HOUSTON Livestock show and Rodeo BBQ cook-off thing. I thought that I had more free time LOL.

Just let me know I should be around,

Chongo


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## Bird (May 10, 2005)

Ok, I guess I should have prefaced my question/comment with the fact that most of the rods I build are fly rods or offshore rods. I had a store bought 8wt that was difficult to load the rod until I got 40-50 feet of line in the air and it was tough to shoot more than 60 feet of line. After I learned how to build rods, I spined it out and the lower section of the rod was 90 degrees off the spine while the upper section was on the correct side (back side of spine for fly rods). After I rebuillt the lower section it was amazing the power the rod could generate and how easy I could cast all of a sudden.

Most blanks that I've built on will 'jump' pretty easily into the spine when bent and rolled. While casting may not generate enough load on the rod to torque it in my hands, or atleast not long enough for me to feel it, when fighting a fish that will put a good bend in the rod, they will torque some, especially a casting rod if not on or opposite the spine. I also like to use relatively light tackle offshore so I want every advantage I can get.

Anyway, I'm glad I was able to get so many good opinions on the idea of spining a rod. I for one, will always spine a blank and will alway do a static deflection test too.

Thanks, Bird.


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## Bird (May 10, 2005)

One other thing, I built a light tackle offshore spiral wrap. Worked like a charm with a Trinidad 20. I also spined the rod like a spinning rod would be since that's where most of the guides were. I just always thought it looked hokey so I stripped the guides off and re-built it as a regular casting rod.

My next question is what kind of blanks are you guys buying to build your rods on? I almost always buy St. Croix blanks. Very high quality and a tremendous selection of blanks to choose from. Plus Chris over at Islanders is a dealer so I can get the ones I want pretty fast...


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## Chongo (May 24, 2004)

St. Croix, Rainshadow, Shikair, Lamiglass All make good blanks. If mail order is not a problem there is a list of suppliers on rodbuilding.org that will have any and all that you need. I also use a supplier in Alvin that has a good supply of domestic and non domestic blanks on hand. Some of the blanks are over runs for some top name companies and at a reduced price. I hope this help



Chongo


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## goinpostal3 (Jul 2, 2004)

I like a good debate too...

Sorry NSpannTx, but I have to agree with Chongo. I always spine my blanks too. 

BTW - Spining a 2 piece, is a PAIN!, LOL. 

Hey Chongo - Where in Alvin is a blank supplier? I'm over in Manvel and would love to check them out. If it's a secret, you can PM me, lol.


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## Chongo (May 24, 2004)

PM Sent! LOL
No real secret just don't want to be accused of getting into his fishing time.


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## Chongo (May 24, 2004)

I guess that we need to start another topic! This debate fell flat on it's Face LOL! Just when it was getting good!!!!!


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## GetEmGot (Nov 30, 2004)

dicklaxt said:


> I thought I read somewhere recently where the Spine location reference was no longer of any appreciable(sp) difference
> It will be interesting to see the fallout here on this subject.
> 
> dick


 You probley did, as that is said all the time currently...The opinon shifted a lot. That being said I still mark the spine on each rod I build. I can't see walking into Academy and thinking any of there rods are going to be aligned. Guess I'll check next time I go in.


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## Dennis Ball (Jun 28, 2005)

Hey Fellas , 
Great topic ! I too have a theory here and I see that everyone has generally agreed that the spining of a blank has a viable part of a "Performance" rod. The time that it takes to find that area of the blank is so minute that I think no one should build without spining. In an arena of production where perhaps 200 or more blanks would need to be addressed , it has been the mother of invention to create a double bearing spining "" machine "".
With this , it takes longer to place them than to find the spine and 200 can really be spined inside of an hour.
As for performance , more guides , less guides , length , action weight considerations?
well , we have taken larger fish offshore with trout rods spined and unspined , there is clearly a roll out issue without the spine.The rods simply have a tendency to flop to one side or the other during the battle and seem to twist until ......you guessed it . They get stressed .

Thanks again , great subject matter.


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## ellisredfish (Jul 5, 2005)

Here I is! Good discussion and I agree with everybody. I'll have to tell you of an experience I had with a rod that I built for an old fishing buddy of mine that owns over 20 rods that I built. This fellow is a doctor that takes fishing trips as far as Belize. He has never complained to me once except for a light popping rod that I built for him about three years ago. He was in Louisiana fishing and came back and told me that his rod twisted a lot. I made that rod using the V frame Fuji guides. They did not work on that light blank. The line set up too high off of the rod and caused it to twist under load. This is a rod that I had been very careful to spine and place the guides on the spine. What I did was replace the V's with Alconite casting guides (had to use an extra guide) and he has not complained anymore. I spiral wrap all of my casting rods using the bumper system. I have a rod building student that I am teaching rod building and I taught him how to spine his rods. Later if he wants to spiral wrap them I will show him that too. I now put my first guide on the straightest axis and spiral wrap the rest. I have tried fly rods with guides on the spine and without it and personally have not noticed any difference but then that is just me. Stick to what you believe is best for you or your clients. I do believe that any casting rod or offshore rod with guides on top will twist with enough load. I have had it happen to me with a grouper on my line.

PS My student brought me two big flounder and a dozen tamales this evening. Lesson: Making neat trim bands using Sulky gold metallic thread. He was using Gudebrod metallic and the bands were coming apart. Sulky is a very fine thread and you can get more wraps in the same size band.


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## BigMikes809 (Oct 23, 2005)

Some rod blanks now days don't seem to have a spine and I think that's because of new better technique and machinery. But every now and then I get one with a noticeable spine. Maybe more for old practice sake then anything else I build off that spine. I only do big game rods but have always felt that the action is more lively because of it. Also ALL of my rods are very fast taper and normally not over 50lbs.
To prove my theory I would have to make the same rod twice so but it is also an old time belief that the lifeof the rod is prolonged if made of of the spine.
The rods I import from Australia some of which are over $2500.00 are built to the spine and are out of this world.
I only make rods for myself when I'm bored but all the custom rods I sell either on consignment or buy and sell as stock are set per spine.
I use Artist from arround the country. I call all the good rod makers artist because they are more skilled then most of the painters I have seen.
Big Mike


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