# 23 shoalwater cat shallow water holeshot technique.



## Exploder (Sep 29, 2006)

Just wondering what you guys found out what works the best for your setups to jump up in skinny water. 
What prop and motor combination are you running?
Trim tabs or not?


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## TexasRenegade (Feb 2, 2015)

Can't say anything about the 23, but for my 19 it was all about the prop. Running a CFF4 with 15 pitch. Super heavy cup for hole shot bite. It grips so well with the jack plate on 6" I raised my motor 2" higher on the jack plate mount and it still launches all the way up, just gotta drop it quick when on plane because the pickups are outa the water. 

The only thing I added to help get up was a ShawWing Cav plate. I just tuck the motor and go strait. It'll get up when it's just barely touching bottom.


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## Flat's Hunter (Oct 18, 2007)

Do you have a custom cupped prop? If not call jack Foreman. Depending on what you got he can work on yours or sell you something. Just tell him you want a bullfrog prop. Having a good cupped prop is necessary. Hard to find out of the box. 

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## sheldonasvoboda (Apr 23, 2015)

I dont run a shoalwater, but you mentioned trim tabs, they will help you stay on plane at slower speeds and help get the back of the boat up when shallow. 
if you've got an off the shelf prop, you may want to consider sending it off to college


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## Team FlatnSassy (Mar 26, 2009)

Sitting on the bottom....tabs down....tuck the motor...str8 shot.
I am cheating tho TRP on 250 SHO


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## Redassassin (Sep 9, 2012)

21ft, 250SHO, 20p Bravo 1 XC (extra cup) and Trim Tabs

Jack it to 6, tabs down, motor down, hard left turn, ease into it the get water moving then hit it at about 3/4 throttle, straightening out the steering and trimming it out as its getting up and I'm off !!!


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## Exploder (Sep 29, 2006)

I found that having my jack plate on 4 max, motor tucked all the way under, turning slightly to the left and easing into the throttle and applying more throttle as I go works best. I do have trim tabs and put them all the way down of course. 

I just have a really hard time jumping up in skinny water without totally blowing out.
was running a Turbo OS1 which did ok until it got wear on it. Now running a Bravo 1 XC. its better but still not really doing what I want it to do.

Just don't know if Im doing it all wrong or what.

I had a redfin (wetfin) a long time ago and had an Explorer 23' tunnel V before my cat. both of them would jump up way easier than my cat. Im just getting a little frustrated with it at this point and thinking about going TRP with 21P props.
I know the foreman 3 blade is supposed to be great on holeshot but 35 mph max is sacrificing a little to much speed for me. I still want to be able to run 50+ mph top end and cruise around 40 mph at around 4000 to 4500 rpm.

Maybe Im chasing rainbows looking for the pot of gold......


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## Exploder (Sep 29, 2006)

If my jackplate is any higher than 4, forget about jumping up without totally blowing out.


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## Exploder (Sep 29, 2006)

I have a manta ray cav plate as well


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## Redassassin (Sep 9, 2012)

hole shot on this hull is not mind blowing like a boat with a large tunnel and a notched transom but its doable if you want the speed too. sounds like ur pretty set on the trp. go for it !!!


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## Exploder (Sep 29, 2006)

Redassassin said:


> hole shot on this hull is not mind blowing like a boat with a large tunnel and a notched transom but its doable if you want the speed too. sounds like ur pretty set on the trp. go for it !!!


Yeah the TRP is def on my radar. Just hard to find and pretty pricey.


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## Flat's Hunter (Oct 18, 2007)

Exploder said:


> I found that having my jack plate on 4 max, motor tucked all the way under, turning slightly to the left and easing into the throttle and applying more throttle as I go works best. I do have trim tabs and put them all the way down of course.
> 
> I just have a really hard time jumping up in skinny water without totally blowing out.
> was running a Turbo OS1 which did ok until it got wear on it. Now running a Bravo 1 XC. its better but still not really doing what I want it to do.
> ...


Are you sure the Foreman 3 blade cupped special is 35mph on that hull and motor combo. That's what it is on a shallow sport type boat that has a top speed of 40-45 no matter the prop.

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## Exploder (Sep 29, 2006)

21P props are just as hard if not harder to find than the lower unit itself.


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## Exploder (Sep 29, 2006)

Flat's Hunter said:


> Are you sure the Foreman 3 blade cupped special is 35mph on that hull and motor combo. That's what it is on a shallow sport type boat that has a top speed of 40-45 no matter the prop.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


35 is what I heard, I don't know from experience...


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## cottonpicker (Jan 25, 2010)

Exploder, your rpm with 21's on TRP will be around 4800 to cruise 40.


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## Exploder (Sep 29, 2006)

cottonpicker said:


> Exploder, your rpm with 21's on TRP will be around 4800 to cruise 40.


I would be happy with cruising 35 mph at 4000 rpm really.
I typically cruise 4000 to 4500 rpm. I look at my rpm more than I do my speed being that's really whats more important to me.
so yeah, cruising at 35+ mph is plenty fast for me as long as I am in my comfort rage on rpms.


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## Flat's Hunter (Oct 18, 2007)

Exploder said:


> 35 is what I heard, I don't know from experience...


I would call Jack and see what he says. If your going to be in shallow water you need a good thick prop that can take some wear. Jack is not about speed (and will tell you bluntly so don't push it with him or he will get pizzed... And NO PROP FOR YOU). but before you spend 6-7k on a lower unit and 1k on props I would check out a conventional PROP from him. As it wears he can re-cup it to lengthen it life. I could be wrong but 35 on a cat hull seems awful slow. That figure seems more like a conventional tunnel hull that has slower top speeds.

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## Exploder (Sep 29, 2006)

Flat's Hunter said:


> I would call Jack and see what he says. If your going to be in shallow water you need a good thick prop that can take some wear. Jack is not about speed (and will tell you bluntly so don't push it with him or he will get pizzed... And NO PROP FOR YOU). but before you spend 6-7k on a lower unit and 1k on props I would check out a conventional PROP from him. As it wears he can re-cup it to lengthen it life. I could be wrong but 35 on a cat hull seems awful slow. That figure seems more like a conventional tunnel hull that has slower top speeds.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


don't want to **** anyone off, just want to get educated and be able to make my boat do what I want it to.


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## Flat's Hunter (Oct 18, 2007)

No I understand. Just giving a warning about Jack. He makes great props. Tell him what you want, if he tells you he can't do it then don't argue cause it won't help the situation. Doesn't mean it can't necessarily be done, just he won't. He likes hole shot and shallow water. He doesn't do speed, like 60 or 70 mph. He is set in his way. But he will educate you in how he thinks props should work. Great to talk to. Just don't argue with with on his expertise 

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## Exploder (Sep 29, 2006)

Flat's Hunter said:


> No I understand. Just giving a warning about Jack. He makes great props. Tell him what you want, if he tells you he can't do it then don't argue cause it won't help the situation. Doesn't mean it can't necessarily be done, just he won't. He likes hole shot and shallow water. He doesn't do speed, like 60 or 70 mph. He is set in his way.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


Understood. Im not a speed freak on the water but I do want to have a good cruising speed of 35-40 mph at around 4000-4500 rpm and still have an excellent holeshot. I would still like to have a top speed of 50+ mph at 5800-6000 rpm. not sure if what I am after is realistic. I feel that I could solve my issues and get what Im looking for as far as performance with a TRP and 21P props.

I have been on identical boats with and without a TRP and was blown away at the difference it makes. Never experienced it on a Shoalwater cat though but that's what makes me lean towards getting a TRP.

I just wanted to get some input on what others are doing to make their cat get up in the skinny with relatively ease.


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## chasentail (Nov 4, 2006)

*shallow water hole shot*

The key to cat boats and shallow water hole shot is a good prop, not worn to nothing and packing the tunnel with air for lift. I turn a 24 Bravo and in really shallow water turn your wheel counter clock wise and slowly give it throttle until you feel the boat lift then give it the gas. You may have to put you jack plate on 4 or 5. This works best for me. The boat will not perform with a worn prop. I have mine rebuilt at least twice a year.


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## Redassassin (Sep 9, 2012)

there a 25 dargel with 83 hours on it in the classifieds for sale with trp and the original lower unit. may be able to talk him out of that trp. I wouldn't think the trp would be a big selling point for the 25 dargel. worth a shot. all he can say is no


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## trouthammer (Jan 24, 2009)

Exploder said:


> If my jackplate is any higher than 4, forget about jumping up without totally blowing out.


I start it at the top of the jackplate but lower it as I put the hammer down. Spinning it up a bit before you get to where it bites seems to help at least with my big dog...


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## raz1056 (Jun 16, 2006)

Exploder said:


> Understood. Im not a speed freak on the water but I do want to have a good cruising speed of 35-40 mph at around 4000-4500 rpm and still have an excellent holeshot. I would still like to have a top speed of 50+ mph at 5800-6000 rpm. not sure if what I am after is realistic. I feel that I could solve my issues and get what Im looking for as far as performance with a TRP and 21P props.
> 
> I have been on identical boats with and without a TRP and was blown away at the difference it makes. Never experienced it on a Shoalwater cat though but that's what makes me lean towards getting a TRP.
> 
> I just wanted to get some input on what others are doing to make their cat get up in the skinny with relatively ease.


I have ran my 23 SW cat with and without a trp. It changes the boat completely with the hole shot. You do sacrifice some speed. Depending on setup new 21 pitch props may be perfect or you may need a little cup added to them. Each boat seems to react a little different. Awesome setup but it has to be worth it to you for the $6-$7k that it will cost. You can buy alot of different props for that. Bravo 1 xc was the best single screw hole shot prop i found if your motor can turn it. I heard they came out with a 19 pitch bravo 1xc that may be the ticket.


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## Exploder (Sep 29, 2006)

raz1056 said:


> I have ran my 23 SW cat with and without a trp. It changes the boat completely with the hole shot. You do sacrifice some speed. Depending on setup new 21 pitch props may be perfect or you may need a little cup added to them. Each boat seems to react a little different. Awesome setup but it has to be worth it to you for the $6-$7k that it will cost. You can buy alot of different props for that. Bravo 1 xc was the best single screw hole shot prop i found if your motor can turn it. I heard they came out with a 19 pitch bravo 1xc that may be the ticket.


Im running the Brovo 1 XC 20P right now and its just ok. Not bad but still not quite what Im looking for.
Are you getting anywhere close to the numbers that I am looking for as far as speed/RPM with the TRP?


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## jorgepease (Apr 14, 2011)

Just curious, how much of the prop, if any, is sticking out of the water when for example your jack plate is on 3?


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## railbird (Jan 2, 2009)

I do a slight turn in either direction and hit top speeds of 60 mph in perfect speed conditions. Every day speed with 2 people is 57-58 with a lite chop. I can get on plane with about half of my prop above the surface, I have to trim down as I leave.


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## 5moreminutes (Jan 14, 2014)

Get it cupped just a tad more.
With my 19' I would ease into the throttle hook a left if needed and start bumping the plate down. That's if I was really skinny.


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## Nero3662 (Oct 3, 2011)

TRP


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## raz1056 (Jun 16, 2006)

Exploder said:


> Im running the Brovo 1 XC 20P right now and its just ok. Not bad but still not quite what Im looking for.
> Are you getting anywhere close to the numbers that I am looking for as far as speed/RPM with the TRP?


With my set up i ran around 52-53 mph at 5800-5900 rpm. 40 mph will be around 5000 rpm if i remember correctly. Hole shot is a non issue anymore. If the hole shot is mainly what you are looking for then trp is your answer
without a doubt. I ran rfl's before this cat and it was a learning process. It amazed me at how much this boat would lift after little movement while getting on plane. As soon as i have moved a boat length or so, i start dropping the jackplate and you can feel the prop start to bite better. That is from the lift. I used this technique with the trp also. Remember that with the trp the case is 2.5" shorter so you may need to drop your motor location. I did not while i ran mine and you could feel the back end get a little loose while running WOT, something you don't see or feel from the single screw. I blamed this on the lower unit being that much higher. This was even with the jack plate on 0.


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## Exploder (Sep 29, 2006)

raz1056 said:


> With my set up i ran around 52-53 mph at 5800-5900 rpm. 40 mph will be around 5000 rpm if i remember correctly. Hole shot is a non issue anymore. If the hole shot is mainly what you are looking for then trp is your answer
> without a doubt. I ran rfl's before this cat and it was a learning process. It amazed me at how much this boat would lift after little movement while getting on plane. As soon as i have moved a boat length or so, i start dropping the jackplate and you can feel the prop start to bite better. That is from the lift. I used this technique with the trp also. Remember that with the trp the case is 2.5" shorter so you may need to drop your motor location. I did not while i ran mine and you could feel the back end get a little loose while running WOT, something you don't see or feel from the single screw. I blamed this on the lower unit being that much higher. This was even with the jack plate on 0.


was this with a 250 SHO and 21P props? extra cupped props??


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## raz1056 (Jun 16, 2006)

Exploder said:


> was this with a 250 SHO and 21P props? extra cupped props??


23 cat, raised console, 2 yetis, 2 batteries, full of fuel, 3-4 people and 250 sho.

new 21 pitch props from factory(no extra cup). i have tried several different props but the 21's were as close as you were going to get it without alot of custom prop work. If your set up was light you may need some extra cupping but i did not.


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## Exploder (Sep 29, 2006)

raz1056 said:


> 23 cat, raised console, 2 yetis, 2 batteries, full of fuel, 3-4 people and 250 sho.
> 
> new 21 pitch props from factory(no extra cup). i have tried several different props but the 21's were as close as you were going to get it without alot of custom prop work. If your set up was light you may need some extra cupping but i did not.


This sounds good to me.


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## F4M (Feb 2, 2015)

chasentail said:


> The key to cat boats and shallow water hole shot is a good prop, not worn to nothing and packing the tunnel with air for lift. I turn a 24 Bravo and in really shallow water turn your wheel counter clock wise and slowly give it throttle until you feel the boat lift then give it the gas. You may have to put you jack plate on 4 or 5. This works best for me. The boat will not perform with a worn prop. I have mine rebuilt at least twice a year.


100% Agree.

I've never had an issue getting the boat up and have been is some shallow stuff.

Bravo 1 22p for speed. Bravo 1 XC for holeshot.


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## cominahead (Sep 15, 2011)

*railbird*

railbird any updates on your new prop design?


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## railbird (Jan 2, 2009)

Our target for first product is June 1st. We will be Texas born and Texas built.


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## sheldonasvoboda (Apr 23, 2015)

post a pic of that prop Railbird


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## railbird (Jan 2, 2009)

We will soon. I'm waiting for permission from our patent attorney. The minute we are given the go ahead, I will post a picture. The next thing we will be doing is setting up with 2cool as a site sponsor. We are working on many things at once. The website, packaging, trade marks, ect. Thank god for good friends and business partners. I've been working on this for many years and finally getting it to market will be fun to do. 

I don't want to hijack this thread, so I will leave it at that for now. You will hear from us soon.


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## fritz423 (Jul 4, 2015)

Stumbled on to this doing research for my next boat, which will be a shallow running boat.

Anyhow, what the heck is a trp?
And also are jack plates only used on tunnel hulls? I could swear I saw jack plates on boats without a tunnel.
Finally, are trim tabs necessary or just "good to have?"

EDIT for 16 years been getting by with a 19ft Logic, getting time to upgrade


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## Flat's Hunter (Oct 18, 2007)

fritz423 said:


> Stumbled on to this doing research for my next boat, which will be a shallow running boat.
> 
> Anyhow, what the heck is a trp?
> And also are jack plates only used on tunnel hulls? I could swear I saw jack plates on boats without a tunnel.
> Finally, are trim tabs necessary or just "good to have?"












This is a trp- twin rotating props. People call it 4 wheel Drive for a boat

Jack plates are more useful on a tunnel boat. Because water is higher up so you can run motor higher. On a non tunnel you get some benefit at idle in shallow water but there is more of a limit when. Running. The more setback on a non tunnel the higher the water is due to water coming back up from under hull. On a tunnel setback not needed because the water exits tunnel already higher than boat bottom.

Depending on the boat trim tabs not necessary but can be nice to level load. Change trim to smooth ride. Also can allow you to plane slower speeds and help get up in shallow water by causing boat to plane faster

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## Exploder (Sep 29, 2006)

Installing a TRP next week. Done!


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## fritz423 (Jul 4, 2015)

Flat's Hunter said:


> This is a trp- twin rotating props. People call it 4 wheel Drive for a boat
> 
> Jack plates are more useful on a tunnel boat. Because water is higher up so you can run motor higher. On a non tunnel you get some benefit at idle in shallow water but there is more of a limit when. Running. The more setback on a non tunnel the higher the water is due to water coming back up from under hull. On a tunnel setback not needed because the water exits tunnel already higher than boat bottom.
> 
> ...


Well described! Thanks for the education. It appears I've gotten set in my ways and need to reach out and pick more of you feller's minds.


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## natureboy3002 (Jan 2, 2011)

I don't know a whole lot about the boats but it was one of the three on my list for my next boat. Demo all three this weekend at rock the dock boats show in Aransas Pass yesterday. Which was a good time to demo boats it was very windy. To me the shoalwater out performed the other two it had everything I was looking for. And the hole shot was unbelievable even with five people in the boat which was the second time out. It had a 300G2 and I think he said a 25 pitch prop. Me and wife on first run out he had it up to 58mhp and the second time with 5people 54/55 raised console ,and not to mention how skinny this boat ran with five people was mind blowing. Wife was happy and sold so I know what the next boat is. Like I said no expert on the boat just sharing what we experienced this weekend.


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## ReelBadCompany (Jun 10, 2013)

I am running a 23 Shoalwater Cat, 20 inch riser box, and semi tower with full console and a Pro XS 250 with no trim tabs. I run one of Jacks 3 blade props for everyday fishing at 47mph with awesome hole shot and shallow water performance. You get her on plane in a hurry with jackplate at 6, I run a Bravo XC 22 during tournaments at 58mph. This jackplate needs to be on around 4 at the highest with motor tucked ,still decent. I am also waiting on Railbirds prop. The Os1 21 also ran decent but the XC gets up better and still has the top end speed comparable to the regular bravo. 

Just a note: Jack also rebuilt 2 of my Bravo XC s to new or better condition with a little more cup. Jack will take care of you.


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## Exploder (Sep 29, 2006)

Yeah, I still have my original lower unit and props just in case something happens to my TRP lower unit. The best prop I found was the Bravo XC 20 pitch. I have 2 Turbo OS1 21 pitch props too that I don't have any need for any longer. one has a little wear and the other is in really good shape. Just going to keep my Bravo prop along with my original lower unit put up in my garage in case for some reason I would need it down the line somewhere.
I am very impressed with the TRP lower unit on my boat. Turned it into a completely different boat. unbelievable hole shot and didn't lose very much speed at all.


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## Yella Fevre (Jun 12, 2007)

I run a 23 cat with 250 SHO. I fish the lower Laguna made out of port Mansfield. I have a 22 turbo OS1 prop with trim tabs. I have never had to use the trim tabs, ever. Just last week I popped out of rattlesnake in 8" of water. Of course I shot mud everywhere but I still get up. I raise it to 6 on jack plate, tuck it under and turn until I get the lift. Just be careful because hard sand and the SHO will twist off the prop and shaft. I did that last year in skinny water and hard bottom!

I use no cavitation late, nothing. I do have wedges on motor.

I can run in water that will make your heart stop. Ask my buddies. The propwash was black from mud!


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## kellyboy (Jul 30, 2013)

I have a evinrude 250 H.O. with a rev 4 21p. Had the boat two years. Very impressed. If I can drift I can get up. In the shallowest of condition. jack it up to about 4, tuck it under, turn left give it about half throttle and lower the jack plate as I get on plane. Very impressed with the hole shot. Boat runs about 50mph. No trim tabs.


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