# Best Rifle for the Kids?



## fishorcutbait (Jun 17, 2010)

What do some of you seasoned Dads / hunters think? I had bought a H and R 243 but quickly realized it was too much gun for my kids. I'm now thinking the 22-250 may be the ticket, but still hear most say don't settle for less than a 243. Will the Remington semi-automatic kick that much less than the single shot I have now? What about noise? Thoughts??

Thanks in advance for any help


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## jm423 (Sep 18, 2011)

Not familiar with the H&R, but bet it's feather light. Less weight= more perceived recoil, all else considered. IMO, all the 22 cals are expert's deer rifles, not beginners. Shot placement! Probably would have been better with a youth model bolt gun. If you reload or know someone that does, try some lighter loads with say 80-90 gr bullets at moderate velocity. Just my $0.02


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## KingIX (Nov 16, 2013)

Depending on there age and the distance shooting would
Help give a better answering

I started super young shooting a .22
One day my dad took me to the range @about 7yr old
handed me a his 30-06 and told me to shoot
no light rounds just a old bolt action...
i did it an learned alot from it
but it also is a scary thing for kids


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## topwateraddict (Mar 5, 2008)

http://2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/showthread.php?t=657858&highlight=youth+rifle


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## horned frog (Nov 9, 2008)

7 yr old daughter shoots a Ruger .357 magnum. 158 gr bullets work great on deer at the reasonable distances that she shoots. Detachable rotary magazine, compact size, and it comes with scope rings. Recoil is manageable for her and muzzle blast is mild. I couldn't find anything better for her. We are both pleased.


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## CDHknives (Mar 17, 2012)

What do you mean by 'too much for the kids'? To heavy? Kids flinching? Too long?

Do you handload? Low power and work up...they don't feel the recoil when aiming at hair, so working up good habits at the range with reduced loads can do wonders. Heck a 22lr barrel for that single shot and a couple of hundred rounds at cans might cure what ails them.

Do the kids have double hearing protection? Most flinch from a 243 is going to be from noise, not punch/recoil. Try double hearing protection (plugs and muffs) and make sure the muffs fit well. Kid's hearing is typically much more sensitive than adults' is. They haven't had decades to kill the more sensitive hearing cells.


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## 27contender (Dec 22, 2008)

I went Rossi which is like HandK. It was a mistake. Too light, bad metal, bad trigger. I was really short sighted for getting it. Why buy a gun for the kids that you would not shoot your self? Light gun had significant perceived recoil even for me. I did not enjoy shooting the gun and found that even reduced loads required me to "turn the mechanism on" to suppress my own flinch. The kids learned to shoot it and did so pretty well, but at a cost (ie. FLINCH).

So I ditched the gun, put it in the back of the gun case. I bought a used Winchester model 7 243 from a poster on hear and the kids love it. It is too heavy to shoot free hand for them, but that is the only draw back. The first time I shot the gun I was AMAZED at the difference in recoil!

I also debated going 22/250 and I too decided that a 243 was a better option as a kid deer gun and it was a legitimate varmint gun as well out to about 250 which is a long way to shoot a squirrel.

So my advice, DO NOT GET A GUN THAT YOU WOULD NOT SHOOT YOURSELF!

Hope that helps someone else,

R


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## tiger (Jun 1, 2004)

My 1st rifle was a Winchester 30-30...I think it helped me learn more about actual hunting,because I didnt sit in a blind and look at deer from afar...


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## dbarham (Aug 13, 2005)

I have a Remington 22 250 with a bull barrel my boy loves it he killed his first one at 7 with it


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## jtburf (May 26, 2004)

Like I have said before, any AR platform in 223 is the best choice, little to no recoil and a versatile gun for you to shoot.

Deer, Pigs, all sorts of varmints, top with quality glass and you are good to go for many years.

john


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## Law Dog (Jul 27, 2010)

A Remington .243


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## ReelBigFish79 (Aug 31, 2013)

Semi automatic firearms are not as safe for children as single shot. It is too easy to take a bad shot or accidentally set the gun down or even just swing it and point it at someone when there is another automatically chambered. At least with a bolt action or single shot they or you have to consciously reload it......

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## horned frog (Nov 9, 2008)

Of course, it is still possible to shoot a semi-auto without a full 30 rd magazine. Point is taken, and I agree, but there are easy ways around this problem.

I bought my younger daughter a Handi-Rifle in 300 Blackout. It fits her great, but trigger is bad and once the hammer is cocked, it must be uncocked if the shot is not taken. This is not easy or safe for my daughter to do, especially with a scope on the gun (even with a hammer spur extension).
Of course, she only hunts with me at her side at this point, so we are working around this for now.


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## THE JAMMER (Aug 1, 2005)

The problem with the cheaper single shot break actions is the hammer and safety. The only way to "safe" on of those once it's cocked is to hold the hammer, pull the trigger and gently let the hammer down. VERY DANGEROUS. I shot myself in the leg with a 22 pistol in 1970 doing that while putting the gun back into my holster. Yes STUPID, but I was 24 yrs old- not 7-10.

They are toooo dangerous. Someone on here said he was short sighted in giving his kid a gun, even he would not shoot. could not agree more. Having done this hunting fishing thing for over 50 years now, one lesson I have learned: get the best you can. Don't cheap out. I hate to think how many dollars I WASTED on Lord knows how many pairs of cheap binoculars, before I finally sprung for the Swarovski's. How many cheap scopes, before I sprung for the good Leupold. How many cheap range finders I wasted money on before I sprung for the top leupold. Etc Etc Etc.

My personal feelings are that a minimum of 243 is desirable for a kid's first deer. Having said that my own kid shot his first deer at the age of 7 with my AR-15. A situation arose at my brother's place for him to hunt that we had not anticipated, and that was the only gun I had with me. He sat between my legs sitting on the ground, and we put the gun on a pair of sticks, and he dropped his doe at 105 yards. Luckily hit the spine immobilizing it, allowing several more "kill shots" to be made. Otherwise I fear we would still be chasing it.

I think an AR with a good heavy (62-69 gr) bullet, under 100 yards might not be a bad choice for a kid you think might not be able to handle the recoil of the 243. If you are a hand loader, however, there is no excuse for not using at least a 243. You can load them down with lighter bullets, and be just fine. I know there is the dedicated 22-250 crowd out there, but the success of that caliber is so dependent upon shot placement, which Dad can do, but Junior probably cannot.

Always an interesting subject, with many opinions. I started my kid off with that first ar kill. I then moved him immediately to a Remington Model 7 (20" bbl easy to handle) in 243. After that we got a model 7 7mm-08 (which I personally feel is one of the most versatile calibers out there- varmints to elk); then we got him a model 7 308. Still have the 308 and 7mm-08, but sold the 243. with those two guns, plus his great grandfather's model 70 pre 64 winchester 30-06, I think he is pretty well covered.

THE JAMMER


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## texas bohunk (Dec 10, 2010)

I built a 7mm-08 with a muzzle break and good recoil pad for my son years back, only problem is the rifle is really loud at the gun range. I have a 243 bolt action with recoil lug in the stock for my grandkids now.


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## CoastalOutfitters (Aug 20, 2004)

gotta agree w jammer on the h&r and nef triggers and hammers

semi auto...........might look at a ruger mini 30, not real accurate, but short stock and the better soft point ammo deff. drops game, it is basically a 30-30 auto........

I have one, low recoil, but fairly loud.


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## Big Grouper (Oct 1, 2008)

My dad started me on his Model 70 30-06 at the range. That thing beat me up at the bench but I could shoot it!!!! I have killed so many deer and hogs with that old Winchester. But he also had a feather weight Sako 243. When I would shoot it, it felt like a 22LR compared to the 06. I'd say go with a bolt action 243. Man there are a bunch of low priced models out there now days.


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## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

I'm curious. 

There have been more than a few threads lately that deal with the subject of rifles for kids.

Are the Dad's asking the questions new to shooting & hunting? Their Dads or Grandfathers didn't give them a rifle when they were young and took them hunting?

If not then I can understand them asking for advice but if they did get a rifle and their Dads or Grandfathers did take them hunting; what did they give you and was it not a good weapon?

Thanks.

TH


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## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

> I know there is the dedicated 22-250 crowd out there, but the success of that caliber is so dependent upon shot placement, which Dad can do, but Junior probably cannot.





> Luckily hit the spine immobilizing it, allowing several more "kill shots" to be made. Otherwise I fear we would still be chasing it.


Sounds like bullet placement with a .223 is pretty important too. 

In reality the youngster has to practice. The bolt action .22-250 is probably a better choice than an AR-15 due to it not being a semi-auto, the AR-15 not so much for kids, unless you're only going to load one round at a time.

Spend a lot of time at the range letting him or her shoot the rifle that you want them to hunt with. When they put the bullet consistently where it's supposed to go

TH


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## trout250 (Aug 24, 2005)

go with a gun that fits the child. I have gotten a 7mm08 in rmeington mdl 7 for my younest who is now 44 had a muzzle brake installed which really made it a shootable gun, restocked it when he got older. I got the same gun in a 243 for my grandson when he was about 8 he hunted with it until 3yrs ago when he took over my ruger 270. we also restocked the 243 when he outgrew the smaller stock. my wife is now hunting with the 243.
like above post let them shoot as much as possible.
good luck


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## artys_only (Mar 29, 2005)

*7mm-08*

You can shoot 120 grain bullets my nine year old shoots it very well . You could go with a 260 also with a heavy barrel more weight in the gun with lighter loads will help with recoil , recoil is most shooter problems with accuracy on all guns . Not just kiddos :wink:


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## THE JAMMER (Aug 1, 2005)

Trouthunter said:


> Sounds like bullet placement with a .223 is pretty important too.
> 
> In reality the youngster has to practice. The bolt action .22-250 is probably a better choice than an AR-15 due to it not being a semi-auto, the AR-15 not so much for kids, unless you're only going to load one round at a time.
> 
> ...


Trouthunter, remember I said it was a spur of the minute hunt. had not planned on doing it, and that was the only gun we had. Pure luck he hit the spine. It really wasn't even a very good spine shot- about half way back. Had it been the right height he might have gotten liver. That day "the magic worked my son." As "old lodge skins" said in "Little Big Man." He had not had much range time- only 7, but he was a crack shot on Cabela's Big Game Hunter.


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## jtburf (May 26, 2004)

If are opposed to an AR platform HOWA the makers of the Weatheby Vanguard line has a 2 n 1 .

Its a short stock that provides you plates to increase LOP as your child grows.


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## A&MTurfman (Jul 19, 2011)

My son now 11 shoots my 3006 like it is nothing at all. He has shot my FIL's Ruger 243 and my GF Enfield 303 British (brass butt plate). He is fearless when it comes to recoil. My thought process is I want a bullet going down range that will do the job with shot placement the key on the animal we are harvesting. Kids are great to teach how to shoot and can adapt much easier than us old farts.


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## ReelBigFish79 (Aug 31, 2013)

My kids shoot my bolt .223 just fine. Not much for recoil and not too much "bang" either. I like them shoot my AR also but not while hunting. With me right behind them at the range. No solution is right for everyone but I want to eliminate risk. BTW, Texas deer are pretty small bodied. No need for big guns. Why waste so much meat? My first gun was a model 94 30/30. A fine gun but not a big fan for kids. My kids are 8 and 9. I think a browning blr in a small caliber might eliminate all of the mentioned issues.......

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## Crotalus (Dec 5, 2006)

My Dad started my brother and I using .22LR for range practice and learning gun safety. We went through the Boy Scout training as well. Then we progressed to Winchester 30-30's for deer hunting. Shot my first deer at age 12.
The next generation was started out using a .243 in the youth model Remington 7.


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## Bird (May 10, 2005)

Well, I've just gone thru this with both of my boys in the last couple years. First off, good for you Dad. Secondly, at 5, its not very likely that any of the guns mentioned will fit him save the pellet gun he has and perhaps a .22 Cricket. If you are so inclined, an M4 AR-15 in either 223 or 300blk with the 5 or 6 position collapsable stock might fit and neither has much recoil. Personally, I'd suggest taking him with you to sit in the blind and keep up the air gun/.22 shooting.


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## Big Guns 1971 (Nov 7, 2013)

My three young girls age 12, 9, and 7 can shoot their 243, 22-250 and 25-06. Each gun has killed deer and hogs and dropped them in their tracks. Just let them shoot the gun enough to get comfortable with it. Any gun can and will kill and dead is dead so just get one that fits them and start shooting.


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## kanga69 (Mar 17, 2011)

Interesting topic and I apologize in advance because this is gonna be a little long winded.

My kids are 20, 17, and 12. I started them all, at 7 years old with a Winchester mod 70 25-06. On a recoil chart, shooting a 100 grain bullet out of any gun will have relatively the same recoil and if not, you won't be able to tell by shooting them. i.e. a 243 shooting 100 gr bullets and a 30-06 shooting 100 gr bullets will kick close enough to the same that you can't tell the difference. Why did I choose 25 caliber - 100 gr bullets. In my opinion a 100 gr bullet, given the importance of shot placement, is better than a 50 gr bullet and I believe an ethical clean kill is more important than just shooting a deer and have it run off. We have never lost a deer with that set up and have probable killed 25 deer and countless hogs with that gun in the last 13 years. Just my .02


The rifle - I took a Mod 70 sporter and took the factory stock off and put it in the safe for future use. I bought another stock and had it cut down and a good recoil pad put on it. I wouldn't let them shoot it at the range except for right a season and only once. Put ear plugs and head phones on them. The noise is scarier for them than the recoil. I would set them in my lap and push my chest up against their shoulder to not rock them back. We did all of our practice with a 22 or an AR. When you put some fur in the scope, they could shoot a 300 win mag and they would never know if it kicked them or not. My two older kids, one sone and a daughter, killed their first deer at 7 yo. My youngest daughter waited until she was 8. This season, I put the regular stock back on it from 13 years ago. My youngest is shooting it and killed 3 does and a hog this year. (we are mld permitted). "Youth" stock is back in the safe and ready for the first grandkid.


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## CharlesRab (May 24, 2012)

Not sure about a lot of this debate about younger kids with semi autos but a gun is a gun semi or not. Kids need to be taught discipline when handling a weapon. If they can't comply then they are still too young/ immature to handle a weapon. I'm working with my eight year old daughter right now, still not wanting to acknowledge the dangers with a weapon so she still isn't allowed to handle or shoot one. Now back to what weapon for youth, I would stay in the .223 .243 range. I use 22 mag more than often for deer or hog. Bullet placement is a must for me. Even shooting my .308, .270 I still make sure my round goes where it is supposed to. If you don't have that shot let it move around a little bit, be patient it will show itself.


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## horned frog (Nov 9, 2008)

I'm not suggesting that a .22 magnum wouldn't kill a deer or hog, but pretty sure it isn't legal for deer in Texas.


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## llred (Jun 30, 2008)

a 30-30 with the new hornady ammo can be quite effective out to 250 yards if you already have a 30-30 rifle. 

If not I would also suggest the 7mm-08.


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## Renegade1 (Oct 7, 2012)

*.243 with a muzzle break*

I bought a .243. Put a muzzle break on it, cut the length of pull down to 11" and put a .50 MM scope on it. My oldest shot his first deer with it at 7. My daughter is 8 and killed her first deer with it this year. Absolutely no recoil. I was scared of them getting hit by the scope and not wanting to shoot ever again. The 50 MM scope helps them find the full circle easier also. Use ballistic tip bullets in case thier shot is not perfect. We have never lost a deer with this gun. My oldest actually shot his first deer at 6 with a .233 and it ran 200 yards.


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## 27contender (Dec 22, 2008)

Renegade1 said:


> I bought a .243. Put a muzzle break on it, cut the length of pull down to 11" and put a .50 MM scope on it. My oldest shot his first deer with it at 7. My daughter is 8 and killed her first deer with it this year. Absolutely no recoil. I was scared of them getting hit by the scope and not wanting to shoot ever again. The 50 MM scope helps them find the full circle easier also. Use ballistic tip bullets in case thier shot is not perfect. We have never lost a deer with this gun. My oldest actually shot his first deer at 6 with a .233 and it ran 200 yards.


Now that is a good idea! Muzzle break a 243 would be nice. I watch the kids carefully with the Win 70 in 243 and they will still flinch. I back out load the gun for them and put in a blank and have them squeeze one off. It goes click and they jump. It helps them to "see what Im saying". If I load the gun for 5 or 6 "shots" they calm down. I think the muzzle break would be the ticket!


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## SharkBait >*)\\\><( (May 16, 2012)

dont give your daughter/son of wife something that will hurt them if they shoot it, they will deal with flinching their whole life if you do, heck i was shooting 85 caliber muzzle loaders at 8 years old, and i flinch more than anyone and have to work through it every time..
personally i think the slower the bullets is going the better off your gonna be when it comes to felt recoil, the .357 mag is a good choice
i shot more rounds of 22lr growing up that anything else, its always a good place to start


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## Bharvey (Mar 24, 2013)

Marlin makes a lever action series that fires .357, .44 Mag, .45 LC. Might be an option to consider. What about .223?


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## 999 (Dec 2, 2004)

27contender said:


> Now that is a good idea! Muzzle break a 243 would be nice. I watch the kids carefully with the Win 70 in 243 and they will still flinch. I back out load the gun for them and put in a blank and have them squeeze one off. It goes click and they jump. It helps them to "see what Im saying". If I load the gun for 5 or 6 "shots" they calm down. I think the muzzle break would be the ticket!


I think my 6/7 year old is more sensitive to the sound than the recoil so not sure about the muzzle break. Using small foam plugs plus muffs help. Also a limb saver or other recoil pad helps.


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## Bottomsup (Jul 12, 2006)

X2

Most kids react to the noise more so than the recoil.



999 said:


> I think my 6/7 year old is more sensitive to the sound than the recoil so not sure about the muzzle break. Using small foam plugs plus muffs help. Also a limb saver or other recoil pad helps.


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## FritoBandito (Feb 21, 2014)

Mosin Nagant carbine rifle. Cheap ammo and great for building upper body strength.


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## THE JAMMER (Aug 1, 2005)

SharkBait >*)\\\><( said:


> dont give your daughter/son of wife something that will hurt them if they shoot it, they will deal with flinching their whole life if you do, heck i was shooting 85 caliber muzzle loaders at 8 years old, and i flinch more than anyone and have to work through it every time..
> personally i think the slower the bullets is going the better off your gonna be when it comes to felt recoil, the .357 mag is a good choice
> i shot more rounds of 22lr growing up that anything else, its always a good place to start


Sharkbait, sure you didn't mean 58 caliber. I have never heard of an 85 caliber ml. If it is 85, what is it. I'm curious.


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## SharkBait >*)\\\><( (May 16, 2012)

grew up shooting a bunch of custom muzzle loaders, biggest caliber was .128 fashioned after a 1800th century cannon..personally the .75 was my favorite..we shot animals in africa with them..


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## Bottomsup (Jul 12, 2006)

I would suggest you get a trust and tax stamp for a suppressor. The suppressor works as a muzzle break and reduces the noise. Perfect for young shooters. Look at the youtube videos on the Ruger 77 in a .357 or .44 mag and full length suppressor.


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