# Evinrude G2 300 vs Yamaha 300



## FishinKidSteven (Feb 6, 2015)

We are looking at pulling the trigger on a Ranger 2510 pretty soon and are trying to figure out which engine. We took a test ride in one with the new eEnvinrude and liked it. But with me being a Yamaha guy I wanted to see some comparisons. Evinrude g2 300 vs Yamaha 300. 

How does it compare to Yamaha in terms of performance, hole shot, top end speed, best mpg, etc? Which would you choose and why? Which one will last longer and is the easiest to maintain? Thanks


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## Copano/Aransas (Dec 18, 2011)

FishinKidSteven said:


> We are looking at pulling the trigger on a Ranger 2510 pretty soon and are trying to figure out which engine. We took a test ride in one with the new eEnvinrude and liked it. But with me being a Yamaha guy I wanted to see some comparisons. Evinrude g2 300 vs Yamaha 300.
> 
> How does it compare to Yamaha in terms of performance, hole shot, top end speed, best mpg, etc? Which would you choose and why? Which one will last longer and is the easiest to maintain? Thanks


The Evinrude is a 2-stroke and the Yamaha is a 4-stroke, I'm sure you know that just something to consider. I would think the Evinrude would have a little better performance than the Yamaha because it a 2-stroke. There's no oil to change in the Evinrude other than the lower unit.

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## dk2429 (Mar 27, 2015)

Popcorn is ready


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## pipeliner345 (Mar 15, 2010)

Wouldn't even be a question for me. G2! Hands down.





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## ziggiey (Apr 6, 2010)

*Servicing*

Yamaha easier to service, G2 lower unit is a 2 person job. Take off side covers and skeletons. Unhook oil tank line and shift harness, unbolt and lower lower unit while helper feeds hose and harness through mid section. After servicing water pump plug in harness and shift into forward gear. Unplug harness and have helper feed harness and oil line through mid section while lifting lower unit back in place. Spark plugs no longer have to be indexed but you must remove coils on one side to change plugs. Yamaha easier to service.


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## FishinKidSteven (Feb 6, 2015)

pipeliner345 said:


> Wouldn't even be a question for me. G2! Hands down.
> 
> Sent from my SM-P905V using Tapatalk


Why?


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## RedXCross (Aug 7, 2005)

I'm not gonna get in a P Match, But sometimes, you got to be able to open up a different book. That being said, and I have no Dawg in this hunt, The G2 WARRANTY alone will get your eybrows up and interested. 
I know for a fact they are stout motors.


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## SSST (Jun 9, 2011)

RedXCross said:


> I'm not gonna get in a P Match, But sometimes, you got to be able to open up a different book. That being said, and I have no Dawg in this hunt, The G2 WARRANTY alone will get your eybrows up and interested.
> I know for a fact they are stout motors.


Lots of guys just can't do it, the first Etecs had issues so they all do! I don't think there's much debate which one will perform better, reliability on the G2 has yet to be determined, but it seems like Bombardier is pretty confident in their product.


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## offshorebound (Dec 7, 2012)

All motors will have some problems, it is how you maintain and luck of the draw. Here in Beaumont there are three boats with twin 300's all less than a year old with 50-100 hours and they all have lost low end power and make tons of oil. Yamaha said they won't fix them and one of the guys hired a badass lawyer and all of the sudden they decided to replace both of his motors, not just power heads! I am a certified Yamaha tech but got out of the business years ago. I like Yamaha but they can't keep the rings seated in these motors unless you run the **** out of them from day one. If I repower my boat I will go with Suzuki for reliability and price. Look at all options and serviceability when choosing which motor. Good luck


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## ziggiey (Apr 6, 2010)

*G2*

Found a comparison on Hulltruth and it looks like the G2 has more torque and gets better fuel mileage, on the boats I rig it is also faster. The controls are fly by wire and power steering is built in eliminating the need for a separate steering cylinder.


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## bthompjr24 (Jun 29, 2010)

ziggiey said:


> Yamaha easier to service, G2 lower unit is a 2 person job. Take off side covers and skeletons. Unhook oil tank line and shift harness, unbolt and lower lower unit while helper feeds hose and harness through mid section. After servicing water pump plug in harness and shift into forward gear. Unplug harness and have helper feed harness and oil line through mid section while lifting lower unit back in place. Spark plugs no longer have to be indexed but you must remove coils on one side to change plugs. Yamaha easier to service.


The "difficulty" of service may be slightly higher than a typical Yamaha. But considering you only have to service the G2 every 5yrs or 500 hours greatly over rules the "ease" of servicing a yamaha. You would have changed the oil in that yamaha at least 5 times and done 2 water pumps on a F300 at the 500hr mark per yamaha maintenance schedule.

You opinion seem alittle biased towards Yamaha. What is your commision rate?


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## ziggiey (Apr 6, 2010)

*Service*



bthompjr24 said:


> The "difficulty" of service may be slightly higher than a typical Yamaha. But considering you only have to service the G2 every 5yrs or 500 hours greatly over rules the "ease" of servicing a yamaha. You would have changed the oil in that yamaha at least 5 times and done 2 water pumps on a F300 at the 500hr mark per yamaha maintenance schedule.
> 
> You opinion seem alittle biased towards Yamaha. What is your commision rate?


I do not work in a shop. IF YOU READ the 5yrs 500 hour service that is in freshwater. Coastal operation with salt water and grass and sand changes that. If you run your boat in saltwater and wait five years to service the lower unit on any motor you will have broken bolts, possible stuck driveshaft and numerous other problems.


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## pipeliner345 (Mar 15, 2010)

FishinKidSteven said:


> Why?


Continue reading.

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## southbay (Aug 30, 2010)

Of those two motors that you mentioned, the G2. Then again there's the Suzuki which should out perform both.


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## SSST (Jun 9, 2011)

southbay said:


> Of those two motors that you mentioned, the G2. Then again there's the Suzuki which should out perform both.


You're saying Suzuki makes a 4 stroke that can out perform the G2 2 stroke? I just don't see how, the laws of mechanics has to take over in that scenario. I guess I would just have to see that in person to believe it.


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## pipeliner345 (Mar 15, 2010)

SSST said:


> You're saying Suzuki makes a 4 stroke that can out perform the G2 2 stroke? I just don't see how, the laws of mechanics has to take over in that scenario. I guess I would just have to see that in person to believe it.


Me too. Friend of mine has a new 175 and its gutless. But in its defense I'm sure the boat its on has something to do with that. However, the zukes are holding up well I hear.

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## FAT TIRE (Nov 25, 2004)

SSST said:


> You're saying Suzuki makes a 4 stroke that can out perform the G2 2 stroke? I just don't see how, the laws of mechanics has to take over in that scenario. I guess I would just have to see that in person to believe it.


I think the Suzuki motors he sells come with some magic dust. Suzuki and performance don't belong in the same sentence. How many go fast outboard boats do you see out there with suzuki, how many bass pros run suzuki.


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## dk2429 (Mar 27, 2015)

southbay,

A big heavy 4 stroke that out preforms a 2 stroke? When??


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## polecat (Jan 21, 2005)

I spoke with a guide in POC about his G2, he told me I could un bolt it and have it if I'd get him a Yamaha SHO. He said it left him stranded twice and he had pulled in several others as well. He said over a 1000 hrs on the SHO without 1 issue, he sold me right there. He also said hole shot was better out of SHO but top speed better out of G2 but only a couple miles per hour.


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## fishin shallow (Jul 31, 2005)

polecat said:


> I spoke with a guide in POC about his G2, he told me I could un bolt it and have it if I'd get him a Yamaha SHO. He said it left him stranded twice and he had pulled in several others as well. He said over a 1000 hrs on the SHO without 1 issue, he sold me right there. He also said hole shot was better out of SHO but top speed better out of G2 but only a couple miles per hour.


Did he happen to get the G2 when they first came out? They had an issue and lots of people were stranded but issue has been resolved.


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## dk2429 (Mar 27, 2015)

X2^^ They had issues on their first production line. But they fixed the issues.


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## djohn71 (Sep 5, 2012)

*Here is my 2 cents*

In full disclosure, I have run the 300 Yamaha and currently run Yamaha SHO motors on our boats. My partner runs the 300 Yamaha on his boat and puts 200-300 hours per year. Here are my observations and a few responses to some common things on these boards. I've owned and operated Yamaha, Evinrude, and Mercury on everything from 18' flats boats to 30' offshore go fast boats. The bulk of my boats run inshore, either across rough open bay water or in shallow water flats. I have run in both high salinity, high sand and in the mud of the Galveston Bay systems

2 stroke vs 4 stroke-

1. 4 stroke cost more to change the oil than 2 stroke
- the oil they want you to use in the Evinrude isn't cheap, we figured the cost over a year and you will spend more on 2 strokeoil if you actually use the boat. The one gallon of oil to 100 gallons of fuel is also kinda like the EPA car fuel rating. Yamaha was 500 to one, and if you romp on the higher RPMs, you burn a lot more. When I switched to 4 stroke, my maintenance vs buying 2 stroke oil cost when down.

2. The 2 stroke will out perform the 4 stroke because it is lighter and has more hole shot. I have no problems with performance or hole shot with the SHO motors or the gray tops. In tournament conditions, equally powered and equipped boats tend to perform the same. A Majek Illusion tower with a SHO and one with a G2 are going to run about the same. Any difference will be in prop and setup. The G2 has some tremendous torque and is great for hole shot, but it still can't beat a TRP for shallow water performance. Without the TRP, I would give the nod to the G2. That is based on feedback I have received from the guys I run against on the mid coast who are running the G2.

3. Well the Evinrude has a seven year warranty so they must really be confident in the motor

Hyundai and Kia have seven year warranties. Dodge had one for a while too. Honda, Ford and Toyota don't. If your product has had reliability issues in the past, you have to do something to get the consumer to buy. Give away free rigging on a re power, 7 year warranty, etc. A few of the guys who have used the motors have had the issues described above. These are guys I have fished with and against in tournaments and have known for a long time. Evinrude has taken care of them, but some will be switching back and some won't. I have placed hundreds of hours on my Yamaha, but I have never had to be towed in due to an engine issue (running out of gas was operator error). Yamaha motors can fail, just like Mercury and Evinrude. Can you get it serviced close by and does the motor have a history of failure.?

My best advice is to go test run the boat you like with both motors attached. price the oil vs an oil change. In saltwater you will probably be doing the 100 hours service every year or two with either engine depending on use. Figure out which dealer is closer and can actually service your motor. At the San Antonio boat show there were about 8 Evinrude motors on boat (according to their rep). Houston and Robstown had a few more, but the majority are still Yamaha.

Good luck.


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## atcfisherman (Oct 5, 2006)

djohn71 said:


> In full disclosure, I have run the 300 Yamaha and currently run Yamaha SHO motors on our boats. My partner runs the 300 Yamaha on his boat and puts 200-300 hours per year. Here are my observations and a few responses to some common things on these boards. I've owned and operated Yamaha, Evinrude, and Mercury on everything from 18' flats boats to 30' offshore go fast boats. The bulk of my boats run inshore, either across rough open bay water or in shallow water flats. I have run in both high salinity, high sand and in the mud of the Galveston Bay systems
> 
> 2 stroke vs 4 stroke-
> 
> ...


 Hit the nail on the head here!!!


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## FishinKidSteven (Feb 6, 2015)

djohn71 said:


> In full disclosure, I have run the 300 Yamaha and currently run Yamaha SHO motors on our boats. My partner runs the 300 Yamaha on his boat and puts 200-300 hours per year. Here are my observations and a few responses to some common things on these boards. I've owned and operated Yamaha, Evinrude, and Mercury on everything from 18' flats boats to 30' offshore go fast boats. The bulk of my boats run inshore, either across rough open bay water or in shallow water flats. I have run in both high salinity, high sand and in the mud of the Galveston Bay systems
> 
> 2 stroke vs 4 stroke-
> 
> ...


That was some very appreciated advice. We are going to stick with Yamaha. It has a reputation of being more reliable and also we have always had Yamaha. Furthermore, the shop close to us does not do G2s yet.


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## ziggiey (Apr 6, 2010)

*Either*

Either one is a good choice.


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## gman1772 (Jul 15, 2012)

Take what djohn71 said and digest it a little. What he is telling you is that if are going to using the boat a lot (100+ plus hours a year) the better setup would be a 4 stroke. Yamaha owns that market.

If you are going to be the normal user (50 hours a year) the G2 with the warranty, all the goo gahs, and the light maintenance schedule might be your choice. 

E-Tec Stuff.

As for the reliability part. Treating your fuel with a decent enzyme treatment will eliminate 99% of your mechanical problems with an E-Tec. There's still the occasional lemon with electronic gremlins. They also tend to get P.O.'ed when your starve the water pickup real quick. I have run a E-Tec 150 Gen 1 for 3 years now. I couldn't be happier with it. It has never left me stranded. Brutal hole shot on a 21' Shallow Sport. I can't say that about all of the Yamahas, Mercury's, Nissan's, Johnson's & Suzuki's I have had though the years


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## jorgepease (Apr 14, 2011)

I always say pick a motor based on the best dealer nearest you but with all the talk about warranty figured I would mention that most are Declining.

I think Honda is the only one with Non-Declining coverage. 

Pro-rated warranties offer decreasing coverage as the warranty approaches its end date. In other words if you got 5 years of use out of say the trim motor, then your warranty only covers the last 2 years value, you pay the rest.

Not sure about Evinrude, just something to check if your basing your purchase on warranty.
Happened to me with a merc trim motor )


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## trouthammer (Jan 24, 2009)

Got a buddy who is getting a killer deal on a 300 and his concern was the price of the oil needed/recommended by Evinrude. It retails for $46 a gallon. I am sure it can be had cheaper but how much?
http://shop.evinrude.com/products/343544/2-stroke


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## Ronnie Redwing (Mar 11, 2013)

XD100 in bulk( you bring me a good container) $35.75 per gallon [email protected] 29.50 Red Wing Boat Co. 713-921-0656


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## ReelWork (May 21, 2004)

I will start by saying that I am a fan off ALL of the high HP motors right now and all seem to be pretty reliable across the board. I have personally owned the Yamaha F300 for 4 years with around 375 hours. Honestly can't see any way the Evinrude will be cheaper to run whether it be short or long term. I'm sure the fuel economy would be comparable with the G2, Yammy and Suzuki which would be a wash for most but... the 2-stroke oil cost for the G2 will in fact add up. Not sure of the burn rates since it varies depending on RPM slightly however let's say most will go through around 6 gallons of 2-Str oil every 100 hours - that's almost $200. 

Someone already mentioned the G2 tune up requires additional manning so there will undoubtedly be an associated cost increase with that over the E-Tec. The Yamaha typically runs about $550 for a tuneup (plugs, oil, lower unit, impeller, diagnostics, etc). 

I'm sure the power will be relatively comparable across the board with slight advantages to either motor depending on the RPM range and load. 

Just sharing my thoughts... Would I shy away from the G2, heck no! Especially with that 7 year warranty which is very enticing however I don't want it in the shop at all - warranty or not. Even warranty work takes forever (regardless of manufacturer)! The other enhancements like speed sensitive steering and the auto-trim feature are quite nice too. That said, the Yamaha is yet again a proven reliable, efficient motor with a hugely reliable parts network to back it up. Parts reliability is why I didn't go with a Suzuki 4+ years - remember that little Tsunami event which rocked Japan about 5 years ago, the parts network for Suzie was shattered when I was looking around. Always something to consider... Now, I don't see that being a problem with Evinrude but having a good dealer nearby would be the next big consideration. 

I will say this, I don't ever miss needing to carry or worry about 2-Stroke oil. Just that makes it so much easier - get in, turn the key and go!


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## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

dk2429 said:


> southbay,
> 
> A big heavy 4 stroke that out preforms a 2 stroke? When??


Yall might want to check the weight on the G2s , the days of 4strokes being heavy and 2stroke weighing a lot less are gone.

My inline Suzuki 200s are faster out of the hole then a g2 200, get better cruise MPG and are within 2mph on top end on the same hull. And the Suzki weighs less then the G2. Lot of bad info in this thread about the differences.

As for the OP, just the looks of the g2 is enough not to buy one.


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## trouthammer (Jan 24, 2009)

Ronnie Redwing said:


> XD100 in bulk( you bring me a good container) $35.75 per gallon [email protected] 29.50 Red Wing Boat Co. 713-921-0656


$36 bucks bulk for the recommended is very high as compared to bulk top of the line synthetic mercury stuff. Also what is the mixing ratio as compared to other motors?


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## Momma's Worry (Aug 3, 2009)

*Yam vs G2*

How does it compare to Yamaha in terms of performance, hole shot, top end speed, best mpg, etc? Which would you choose and why? Which one will last longer and is the easiest to maintain? Thanks[/QUOTE]

G2 will best the Yam on all fronts hands down for less..... except resale value where the Yam smokes them all hands down.........


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## Ronnie Redwing (Mar 11, 2013)

The ratio of fuel to oil is varied by the engine computer controlled oil injector. it varies based on rpm 's and engine load. The oil is called xd-100 . it is not a 100 to 1 ratio. I don't know exactly what it is made of--I do know it smells like dead fish.


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## SeaY'all (Jul 14, 2011)

I have ran 2 different SHO motors in the past 5 years and you now own one of them Steven. Have you had any issues with it yet?
Im not opposed to the G2 but, I just cant see a motor not being serviced for 500 hours.
The sand, mud and shell we fish in will tear any impeller up long before that. 
I dont think there is a big cost savings either way on maintenance.

As far as weight is concerned, there is a 7lb difference between the weight of the F300 and the G2. The G2 is heavier.

I personally dont like to drag 2 stroke oil around. I did that on my Opti.


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## FishinKidSteven (Feb 6, 2015)

SeaY'all said:


> I have ran 2 different SHO motors in the past 5 years and you now own one of them Steven. Have you had any issues with it yet?
> Im not opposed to the G2 but, I just cant see a motor not being serviced for 500 hours.
> The sand, mud and shell we fish in will tear any impeller up long before that.
> I dont think there is a big cost savings either way on maintenance.
> ...


You are correct. Absolutely 0 issues so far on it. For the reasons you listed we will be sticking with yamaha.


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## ATE_UP_FISHERMAN (Jun 25, 2004)

Gotta love the G2 simplicity.
No break in required.
longer dealer-scheduled maintenance.
No belts chains, lifters or valves.
152 less parts to break and leave you stranded.

lower unit reservoir and sight tube to see what your lower unit oil looks like without draining. You can see as soon as a seal starts sucking in saltwater contamination and repair it before a major issue. 
on board 2gal oil reservoir
on board fuel /water separator
more room in front of the motor because no steering cables or hoses.
Great warranty 
highest power to weight ratio


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## ziggiey (Apr 6, 2010)

*Really*



Jolly Roger said:


> Yall might want to check the weight on the G2s , the days of 4strokes being heavy and 2stroke weighing a lot less are gone.
> 
> My inline Suzuki 200s are faster out of the hole then a g2 200, get better cruise MPG and are within 2mph on top end on the same hull. And the Suzki weighs less then the G2. Lot of bad info in this thread about the differences.
> 
> As for the OP, just the looks of the g2 is enough not to buy one.


G2 has steering built in, add weight of steering to Suzuki. As far as hole shot and top speed the G2 is much better. I have rigged the same boats with both a 250ss and 250 g2, the G2 was 6mph faster and had better holeshot and midrange. Plus Suzuki has weird gear ratio and rpm to mph sucks. Bet you can't run 46 mph at 4000 rpms with a Suzuki.


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## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

ziggiey said:


> G2 has steering built in, add weight of steering to Suzuki. As far as hole shot and top speed the G2 is much better. I have rigged the same boats with both a 250ss and 250 g2, the G2 was 6mph faster and had better holeshot and midrange. Plus Suzuki has weird gear ratio and rpm to mph sucks. Bet you can't run 46 mph at 4000 rpms with a Suzuki.


steering does not make up the weight difference. G2s weigh more+ added weight due to oil tanks. The 250ss Suzuki has a a normal gear ratio around 2 to 1. Not sure what you are talking about, everything you said about the Suzuki is wrong. Just a whole lot of wrong info about 4stroke and G2 on this thread. Not sure who's boat you rigged with the Suzuki, but you put the wrong prop on it.

Here is an example of Suzuki 250ss going 46mph at 4500 rpms, they can do it all day long.
http://www.suzukimarine.com/Product.../TestResults/B/Bass Cat/Bass Cat Puma DF250SS

This 250ss is 50mph at 4500rpms
http://www.suzukimarine.com/Product...esults/B/Blazer Boats/Blazer 210 ProV DF250SS


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## ziggiey (Apr 6, 2010)

*Ha Ha*



Jolly Roger said:


> steering does not make up the weight difference. G2s weigh more+ added weight due to oil tanks. The 250ss Suzuki has a a normal gear ratio around 2 to 1. Not sure what you are talking about, everything you said about the Suzuki is wrong. Just a whole lot of wrong info about 4stroke and G2 on this thread. Not sure who's boat you rigged with the Suzuki, but you put the wrong prop on it.
> 
> Here is an example of Suzuki 250ss going 46mph at 4500 rpms, they can do it all day long.
> http://www.suzukimarine.com/Product.../TestResults/B/Bass Cat/Bass Cat Puma DF250SS
> ...


That shows a couple of 1600 pound bass boats with a 30 and 31 pitch prop. An SCB with a Mercury and same pitch is running in the nineties. Show me any bay boat that can pull a 30 pitch prop. Suzuki 250 ss gear ratio is 2.08 to 1. Evinrude, Yamaha, and Merc have ratios ranging from 1.75 to 1 and 1.86 to 1. If you really want to compare your 4 cylinder 200 Suzuki in an apples to apples comparison a 200 E-Tec small block weighs 418 pounds. A 250 Suzuki weighs more than a 250 G2. I have never seen a Suzuki motor on an SCB, Majek Extreme or any of the faster bay boats. Thread got sidetracked but I am glad you are happy with your motor. I have a 250 E-Tec not a G2 or Yamaha and have rigged over a hundred boats with various motors and Suzukis are quiet and reliable, just not fast.


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## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

ziggiey said:


> That shows a  couple of 1600 pound bass boats with a 30 and 31 pitch prop. An SCB with a Mercury and same pitch is running in the nineties. Show me any bay boat that can pull a 30 pitch prop. Suzuki 250 ss gear ratio is 2.08 to 1. Evinrude, Yamaha, and Merc have ratios ranging from 1.75 to 1 and 1.86 to 1. If you really want to compare your 4 cylinder 200 Suzuki in an apples to apples comparison a 200 E-Tec small block weighs 418 pounds. A 250 Suzuki weighs more than a 250 G2. I have never seen a Suzuki motor on an SCB, Majek Extreme or any of the faster bay boats. Thread got sidetracked but I am glad you are happy with your motor. I have a 250 E-Tec not a G2 or Yamaha and have rigged over a hundred boats with various motors and Suzukis are quiet and reliable, just not fast.


Who do you work for?

A 2 to 1 gear ratio is common on outboards, if you are rigging boats for a living might want to figure that out. Because whoever boats you rigged with the Suzuki you do not understand how to prop it. Suzuki turn large props with a lot of Pitch. Pitch makes the speed, if you do not know how to prop them then you would think they are slow. Suzuki are strong engines, if someone thinks they are not then they are set up wrong.

My Zukes compare better to the G2 200s as the older version of the E-tecs would not even come close to the same level of performance.

Example can be found here, same exact Yellowfin hull. Look at the 0-30 times. The Suzuki 0-30mph is 5.9seconds where as the G2 is 6.5 seconds. The G2 cruise speed was less then 30mph, no one wants to go less then 30mph. Suzuki cruise speed is faster. Top end the G2 was only faster by a little and the Suzuki could turn more pitch and gain more speed as they were at the max RPMs at the test. The old E-tec would not even come close to these numbers. Lot of BS and bad info on this thread. Here are hard numbers, no BS. A inline 4cylinder 4stroke engine with a faster hole shot, better cruise speeds and almost the same top end speed as the newest and best 2stroke.

http://www.suzukimarine.com/Product.../Y/Yellowfin Yachts Inc/Yellowfin 26 DF200APL

http://www.boattest.com/review/yellowfin/3387_26-hybrid

FYI the Yamaha F150, one of the most popular engines along the gulf coast has a 2 to 1 gear ratio. For someone who rigs motors, thought you should know.... some of the SHO's also have 2 to 1..... it is important to know this stuff when getting a boat sit up correct and propped.


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## ziggiey (Apr 6, 2010)

*Ha Ha*



Jolly Roger said:


> Who do you work for?
> 
> A 2 to 1 gear ratio is common on outboards, if you are rigging boats for a living might want to figure that out. Because whoever boats you rigged with the Suzuki you do not understand how to prop it. Suzuki turn large props with a lot of Pitch. Pitch makes the speed, if you do not know how to prop them then you would think they are slow. Suzuki are strong engines, if someone thinks they are not then they are set up wrong.
> 
> ...


Most common gear ratio on outboards above 200 hp is 1.75 to 1.86, Evinrude, Yamaha and Mercury. a Suzuki will outperform a Yamaha, Merc or Evinrude when pigs fly.In your own example you just posted on the yellowfin Suzuki turns 5000 rpms to run 45 mph. Tell me how many Suzuki motors you see on fast bay boats. My Etec 250 HO runs 46mph at 4000 rpms with a 25 pitch Bravo prop.Any time you want to come run your 200 Suzuki against my Etec let me know. You are a dumb *** .


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## ziggiey (Apr 6, 2010)

*A few questions*



ziggiey said:


> Most common gear ratio on outboards above 200 hp is 1.75 to 1.86, Evinrude, Yamaha and Mercury. a Suzuki will outperform a Yamaha, Merc or Evinrude when pigs fly.In your own example you just posted on the yellowfin Suzuki turns 5000 rpms to run 45 mph. Tell me how many Suzuki motors you see on fast bay boats. My Etec 250 HO runs 46mph at 4000 rpms with a 25 pitch Bravo prop.Any time you want to come run your 200 Suzuki against my Etec let me know. You are a dumb *** .


Your 200 has a 2.50 to 1 gear ratio, is this normal too? What boat and prop do you have? What is your speed at 4000 rpms, top speed and top rpms?Inquiring minds want to know.


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## rosetejas (Aug 1, 2014)

*G2 Problems & Warranty*

Demoed a new boat a few months ago with a G2 with about 15 hours. Kept bogging down and the guy showing me the boat kept talking about all the problems that Evinrude had solved on these motors since they were released. Well obviously not all of the problems and who wants to be the Guinea pig for all that new technology? Of course it has a 7 year warranty, but will Bombardier Recreational Products be around to honor the 7 year warranty? They have lost 40% of their stock value in less than 3 years.

I went with Yamaha.


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## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

ziggiey said:


> Most common gear ratio on outboards above 200 hp is 1.75 to 1.86, Evinrude, Yamaha and Mercury. a Suzuki will outperform a Yamaha, Merc or Evinrude when pigs fly.In your own example you just posted on the yellowfin Suzuki turns 5000 rpms to run 45 mph. Tell me how many Suzuki motors you see on fast bay boats. My Etec 250 HO runs 46mph at 4000 rpms with a 25 pitch Bravo prop.Any time you want to come run your 200 Suzuki against my Etec let me know. You are a dumb *** .


So now you know that 2 to 1 gear ratio in outboards is common. At least you are learning something.

You made the claim that Suzuki were slow and got poor MPG at cruise. You are wrong. You claim the 250ss has an odd gear ratio, you are wrong. most everything you have said has been wrong.

Where do you work, because I do not want my boat at your shop nor do I want to tell anyone to go to your shop. You have shown a complete lack of understanding of how an outboard make speed, how gearing works, or how to prop a motor.

So I will ask again, where do you work????

I posted the hard facts on the same hull as my motors compared to G2 200s. My motors are faster out of the hole, faster cruise speed and almost the same top end speed. So unless you are claiming that your motor is special, and faster and better then the new G2s then you are spouting off more BS.



ziggiey said:


> Your 200 has a 2.50 to 1 gear ratio, is this normal too? What boat and prop do you have? What is your speed at 4000 rpms, top speed and top rpms?Inquiring minds want to know.


With 2.50 to gear ratio they are still 60+ mph motors. Not that you would understand this.

My boat has twin 200s and my speed at 4000rpm is where I want it to be for optimum cruise/speed MPG because I understand how to prop a boat.

I was running 3x16x23 suzuki props, now running 4x15.25x23 Powertech props. I could easyly go 65+ mph with my Suzukis if I so wanted to, but not what I want.


----------



## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

ziggiey said:


> .In your own example you just posted on the yellowfin Suzuki turns 5000 rpms to run 45 mph. .


in my example the Suzuki push the boat 60mph+. You are cherry picking because you do not understand how outboards make speed.

Can not wrap your head around how a motor with 2.5 to 1 gear ratio can push boats 60+. You have shown a fundamental lack of understanding of how to prop a motor.

So I will ask again, Who do you work for?

FYI: I really like the 2.5 to 1 gear ratio, it is freaking impressive. Hole shot faster then anything else, huge amounts of torque, great cruise speeds at awesome MPG and plenty of top end. The most impressive 200hp on the market and the reason I bought them.


----------



## ziggiey (Apr 6, 2010)

*Ha Ha*



Jolly Roger said:


> So now you know that 2 to 1 gear ratio in outboards is common. At least you are learning something.
> 
> You made the claim that Suzuki were slow and got poor MPG at cruise. You are wrong. You claim the 250ss has an odd gear ratio, you are wrong. most everything you have said has been wrong.
> 
> ...


So you have a slow boat and know nothing about propping. Correct propping is getting recommend rpm range at wide open throttle. This not only prevents carbon build up but also is very important for long and trouble free engine life. I work for myself so no danger of you coming to my shop, I stay quite busy just by word of mouth. Have almost ten years in marine industry and hundreds of satisfied people that I have set up their boats. Big difference between an off shore boat like yours and a bay boat like the op was asking about. He was asking about G2 verses Yamaha and you brought Suzuki in. I have rigged many Haynie, Majek, Dargel, Freedom, and Pescador boats over the years and am factory trained in Evinrude. You may want to read manufacturers instructions on propping a boat since you haven't a clue. The most common gear ratios for motors 200 hp and up is 1.75 to 1.86 as this is what Mercury, Evinrude and Yamaha use. The 2.1 and 2.5 gear ratios that Suzuki uses is uncommon in engines over 200 hp.MOST EVERYTHING YOU SAID IS WRONG unless you are right and everyone else is wrong.


----------



## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

ziggiey said:


> So you have a slow boat and know nothing about propping. Correct propping is getting recommend rpm range at wide open throttle. This not only prevents carbon build up but also is very important for long and trouble free engine life. I work for myself so no danger of you coming to my shop, I stay quite busy just by word of mouth. Have almost ten years in marine industry and hundreds of satisfied people that I have set up their boats. Big difference between an off shore boat like yours and a bay boat like the op was asking about. He was asking about G2 verses Yamaha and you brought Suzuki in. I have rigged many Haynie, Majek, Dargel, Freedom, and Pescador boats over the years and am factory trained in Evinrude. You may want to read manufacturers instructions on propping a boat since you haven't a clue. The most common gear ratios for motors 200 hp and up is 1.75 to 1.86 as this is what Mercury, Evinrude and Yamaha use. The 2.1 and 2.5 gear ratios that Suzuki uses is uncommon in engines over 200 hp.MOST EVERYTHING YOU SAID IS WRONG unless you are right and everyone else is wrong.


Nope, wrong again my boat is 50+ mph and that is loaded. Considering I have 24.5 degree of deadrise and weigh in close to 10k it is freaking awesome. Only an idiot would think my boat is slow. I fish out of Sabine and speed is important as we will make 100 mile out trips, covering close to 300 miles on day trips. So the most important number to me is fast cruise MPG.

I posted up hard numbers, test on each motor. You have just spouted BS that has been all wrong. You do not understand how to prop a boat at all. You are under the impression that because an outboard has lower gearing it is going to be slow, this is just flat out wrong. Claimed the lower gearing would hurt MPG at cruise, this is wrong. Nothing but wrong.

What shop do you work at? simple question to answer since you claim to be so busy


----------



## SSST (Jun 9, 2011)

This is worse than Ford vs Chevy!! I'd have to see the Zuke beat the G2 in holeshot in person to believe it also.


----------



## ziggiey (Apr 6, 2010)

Jolly Roger said:


> Nope, wrong again my boat is 50+ mph and that is loaded. Considering I have 24.5 degree of deadrise and weigh in close to 10k it is freaking awesome. Only an idiot would think my boat is slow.
> 
> I posted up hard numbers, test on each motor. You have just spouted BS that has been all wrong. You do not understand how to prop a boat at all. You are under the impression that because an outboard has lower gearing it is going to be slow, this is just flat out wrong. Claimed the lower gearing would hurt MPG at cruise, this is wrong. Nothing but wrong.
> 
> What shop do you work at? simple question to answer since you claim to be so busy


I already said I work on my own, not in a dealer. Lower gear ratio means SLOWER cruise speed at same rpms, simple math. What is your wide open throttle loaded rpm and speed cruising, simple question to answer. I am also certain there is not an identical boat to yours with G2 motors on it for a comparison, so you just made up comparison.


----------



## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

SSST said:


> This is worse than Ford vs Chevy!! I'd have to see the Zuke beat the G2 in holeshot in person to believe it also.


It is kinda cool how fast the Zuke can spool up RPMs, just freaking impressive. Split seconds you are at 4000rpms and this is not prop slip, turning 16" props there is no slip.


----------



## capone (Feb 25, 2013)

I really love it when the boat motor weight argument starts, by the 300 lb guy with 200 lbs of ice, and 100 lbs of tackle, and beer, and I could keep going. 

If the G2's and Suzuki's are so great, then why do I not see them hanging on a commercial fishing boat???


----------



## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

ziggiey said:


> I already said I work on my own, not in a dealer. Lower gear ratio means SLOWER cruise speed at same rpms, simple math. What is your wide open throttle loaded rpm and speed cruising, simple question to answer. I am also certain there is not an identical boat to yours with G2 motors on it for a comparison, so you just made up comparison.


The links I posted were the same yellowfin hulls with Suzki and G2s on them. Read the links.

Sorry, but you are wrong. Lower gear ratio means you have more torque and can spin props with more pitch. With the current props WOT is 6150rpms running 55mph loaded lIght. Suzuki props are known to be over pitched, so showing a little negative slip at top end with the 23p.

What is your shops name?


----------



## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

capone said:


> I really love it when the boat motor weight argument starts, by the 300 lb guy with 200 lbs of ice, and 100 lbs of tackle, and beer, and I could keep going.
> 
> If the G2's and Suzuki's are so great, then why do I not see them hanging on a commercial fishing boat???


lots and lots of Suzuki on commercial boats, almost as many as Yamaha. Think Yamaha dealer network has the advantage when it comes to this aspect, much the same as REC fishermen. Suzuki dealer network is not the best.

I carry as much as 600lbs of ice, but the ice is not hanging off the back of my boat acting like a lever. Weight on the very back of the boat makes a huge difference. Put your 300lb fishing buddy on the very back by the motor and you will see the difference.


----------



## fishin shallow (Jul 31, 2005)

Not the commercial fishing boat comparison again...


----------



## ziggiey (Apr 6, 2010)

*Bull*



Jolly Roger said:


> The links I posted were incidental yellowfin hulls with my motors and G2s on them. Read the links.
> 
> Sorry, but you are wrong. Lower gear ratio means you have more torque and can spin props with more pitch. With the current props WOT is 6150rpms running 55mph loaded lIght. Suzuki props are known to be over pitched, so showing a little negative slip at top end with the 23p.
> 
> What is your shops name?


 Already told you no shop, can you not understand this.
Just went to prop Calculator added one pitch since you said Suzuki props tend to be over pitched.
6000 rpms 24 pitch 2.5 gear 13% slip=47mph
6000 rpms 24 pitch 1.86 gear 13% slip=63mph
6100 rpms 24 pitch 2.5 gear 1% slip=54.9
So you have 1% slip?
Which one are u saying is faster?


----------



## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

ziggiey said:


> Already told you no shop, can you not understand this.
> Just went to prop Calculator
> 6000 rpms 24 pitch 2.5 gear 13% slip=47mph
> 6000 rpms 24 pitch 1.86 gear 13% slip=63mph
> Which one are u saying is faster?


maybe you should read what I wrote again, slower this time.

I will say it again, Suzuki are known to be over pitched.

What a Zuke claims to be a 23p prop runs more like a 25p, and at 16" there is not much slip, less then 5%. There 21p run more like 23p, etc...

So do you work out of your garage?


----------



## capone (Feb 25, 2013)

Jolly Roger said:


> The links I posted were the same yellowfin hulls with Suzki and G2s on them. Read the links.
> 
> Sorry, but you are wrong. Lower gear ratio means you have more torque and can spin props with more pitch. With the current props WOT is 6150rpms running 55mph loaded lIght. Suzuki props are known to be over pitched, so showing a little negative slip at top end with the 23p.
> 
> What is your shops name?


This calculates correct w/ ~15% slip


----------



## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

capone said:


> This calculates correct w/ ~15% slip


at 6150rpms with 23p at 2.5 gear ratio is comes out to 54mph with no slip.

But Suzuki props are known to be over pitched, so they usually run about 2" more of pitch. The 16" Suzuki props usually run around 5% slip at higher RPMs.

here is a link to a slip calculator for anyone who wants to check there own. I take pics of my speed and RPMs, watch it like a hawk and tweak my set up for fastest cruise MPG.

http://www.go-fast.com/Prop_Slip_Calculator.htm


----------



## ziggiey (Apr 6, 2010)

*I'm out of here*



Jolly Roger said:


> at 6150rpms with 23p at 2.5 gear ratio is comes out to 54mph with no slip.
> 
> But Suzuki props are known to be over pitched, so they usually run about 2" more of pitch.
> 
> ...


I give up, you have a unicorn! Most boats have 10% or more slip.


----------



## capone (Feb 25, 2013)

Jolly Roger said:


> at 6150rpms with 23p at 2.5 gear ratio is comes out to 54mph with no slip.
> 
> But Suzuki props are known to be over pitched, so they usually run about 2" more of pitch.
> 
> ...


I ran the numbers for 2.08:1.

So can you order a 300 Zuk w/2.5? all i see is 2.08. Its interesting b/c going dual or trips i would rather have the option to gear down. Folks act like they drive offshore boats WOT all the time when in reality its at cruise speed or idle.


----------



## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

ziggiey said:


> Already told you no shop, can you not understand this.
> Just went to prop Calculator added one pitch since you said Suzuki props tend to be over pitched.
> 6000 rpms 24 pitch 2.5 gear 13% slip=47mph
> 6000 rpms 24 pitch 1.86 gear 13% slip=63mph
> ...


You do not understand that the lower gear ratio can turn more pitch do you?

The 1.86 gear ratio is not going to turn as much pitch as the 2.5 gear ratio. Hopefully you will learn that lower gear ratio does not equal slow speeds. Lower gear ratio gives the motor more torque and they can turn more pitch compared to the same HP with higher gear ratio. It is a balance, some HP the higher gear ratio is faster, other HP the lower gear ratio is faster.

to claim that a lower gear ratio is going to be slower all the time is just flat out wrong.


----------



## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

ziggiey said:


> I give up, you have a unicorn! Most boats have 10% or more slip.


I have said it several times, can only tell you can not understand it for you.

Suzuki props are well known to be over pitched, they run usually about 2" more then what they are stamped. Becasue they are larger diameter they have less slip at higher RPMs, most often around 5%.

So do you work out of your garage?


----------



## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

capone said:


> I ran the numbers for 2.08:1.
> 
> So can you order a 300 Zuk w/2.5? all i see is 2.08. Its interesting b/c going dual or trips i would rather have the option to gear down. Folks act like they drive offshore boats WOT all the time when in reality its at cruise speed or idle.


The 2.5 gear ratio is on the inline 4 cylinder 200hp and 175hp. The 2.08 is a little lower gear ratio then others, but not near as much as some posters were trying to make it out to be. The lower gear ratio does do more of a torque multplier and allows for larger diameter and more pitch. For us offshroe guys this can put you propped perfect for a sweet cruise speed loaded with great MPG.

Suzuki changed a lot of there lower units and gear ratios few years ago. It made a huge improvement to there 300hp and there 250hp, but only in the fly by wire. The inline 200s are new and they changed the 175 gearing about three years ago. The changes made them much more efficient and kept the speeds the same or better then the others. The 300hp is where it really shows for offshroe fishermen, more power, better MPG and faster speed then Yamaha 300. Not talking about a huge difference, but enough to notice


----------



## ziggiey (Apr 6, 2010)

*One last time*



Jolly Roger said:


> I have said it several times, can only tell you can not understand it for you.
> 
> Suzuki props are well known to be over pitched, they run usually about 2" more then what they are stamped. Becasue they are larger diameter they have less slip at higher RPMs, most often around 5%.
> 
> So do you work out of your garage?


Yes I work at home, have a good following and am very selective.I do upkeep on severals SCB's and won't work on anything more than a couple of years old. Don't have to. I have a hard time with 5% slip.
I have a high dollar prop and get 8%, 15.25 diameter 25 pitch, never touched anything but water. I know all about gear ratios but you seem to assume another motor won't turn the same rpm with a different ratio.I can turn my 25 pitch 5700 rpms with 1.86 ratio. We tried many props on the 250ss, Suzuki, Mercury and Turbo. Best was 5900-6000 rpms at 58 to 59 mph. Same boat with G2 turned 24 pitch 5800 rpms at 66 mph. Suzuki is just not as fast on light bay boats, seems to work well on heavier off shore boats which is what you have. Good night and good fishing.


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## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

ziggiey said:


> Yes I work at home, have a good following and am very selective.I do upkeep on severals SCB's and won't work on anything more than a couple of years old. Don't have to. I have a hard time with 5% slip.
> I have a high dollar prop and get 8%, 15.25 diameter 25 pitch, never touched anything but water. I know all about gear ratios but you seem to assume another motor won't turn the same rpm with a different ratio.I can turn my 25 pitch 5700 rpms with 1.86 ratio. We tried many props on the 250ss, Suzuki, Mercury and Turbo. Best was 5900-6000 rpms at 58 to 59 mph. Same boat with G2 turned 24 pitch 5800 rpms at 66 mph. Suzuki is just not as fast on light bay boats, seems to work well on heavier off shore boats which is what you have. Good night and good fishing.


You still do not get this gearing thing. The lower geared motor of the same HP on your exact hull could turn more pitch. The lower geared motor has more torque, it will always turn larger and more pitch. If it is faster depends on to many factors. But to claim that just because it has lower gears it will be slow is just BS.

On a light boat you did not have it propped correct if that was all you were getting or motor mounted to low/high

I posted links to the same motor on a light boat getting the almost the same numbers as you claim as the G2, but you ignored them. Maybe your light boat was different then the light boat in the test...... or you just screwed up on the prop.

Here is the Suzuki 250ss going 80mph on a light boat, with a 4blade prop non the less. Could have gotten few more MPH with a 3 blade.

http://www.suzukimarine.com/Product...esults/B/Blazer Boats/Blazer 210 ProV DF250SS


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## ziggiey (Apr 6, 2010)

*Can we just stop*



Jolly Roger said:


> On a light boat you did not have it propped correct.
> 
> I posted links to the same motor on a light boat getting the almost the same numbers as you claim as the G2, but you ignored them. Maybe your light boat was different then the light boat in the test...... or you just screwed up on the prop.
> 
> ...


It was a 24 ft cat boat designed for shallow water, weighed 1800 lbs without motor and would not pull a 30 or 31 pitch prop. Boats designed for shallow water have much more drag than a bass boat, the dealer who sold the motor also tried many props and didn't get any better results. They tried Suzuki, Mercury and Turbo props, some three blade and some four blade. It simply would not turn any more pitch. I sent you a pm with my info, feel free to call. This has turned into a train wreck.


----------



## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

ziggiey said:


> It was a 24 ft cat boat designed for shallow water, weighed 1800 lbs without motor and would not pull a 30 or 31 pitch prop. Boats designed for shallow water have much more drag than a bass boat, the dealer who sold the motor also tried many props and didn't get any better results. They tried Suzuki, Mercury and Turbo props, some three blade and some four blade. It simply would not turn any more pitch. I sent you a pm with my info, feel free to call. This has turned into a train wreck.





ziggiey said:


> .Any time you want to come run your 200 Suzuki against my Etec let me know. You are a dumb *** .


There is nothing I want to discuss that can not be talked about here. If you had problems with one boat, that happens. Could have been a lot of different reasons other then the motor why that set up did not work.

But just overall there is a complete lack of understanding from you of how a motor makes speed. Just because a motor is lower geared does not mean it is going to be slow, or get poor MPG.


----------



## ziggiey (Apr 6, 2010)

*Ok*



Jolly Roger said:


> There is nothing I want to discuss that can not be talked about here. If you had problems with one boat, that happens. Could have been a lot of different reasons other then the motor why that set up did not work.
> 
> But just overall there is a complete lack of understanding from you of how a motor makes speed. Just because a motor is lower geared does not mean it is going to be slow, or get poor MPG.


Ok then, you have my info, I have some customers who are very private and don't like their business discussed, they have some cool stuff including an honest 120mph boat.I have a pretty good understanding of speed having owned a triple motor that ran 118 mph. A lot of factors are in play, hull design, prop design,weight, drag, engine power band and more. I'll just agree to disagree and move on.


----------



## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

ziggiey said:


> Ok then, you have my info, I have some customers who are very private and don't like their business discussed, they have some cool stuff including an honest 120mph boat.I have a pretty good understanding of speed having owned a triple motor that ran 118 mph. A lot of factors are in play, hull design, prop design,weight, drag, engine power band and more. I'll just agree to disagree and move on.


Here are links to performance reports from a Suzuki 250 and Envirude G2HO 250 on the same exact hull. Mind you this is the G2 "HO" motor, not the regular G2 250hp.

Now after looking at this, you still going to claim Suzuki are slow compared to other motors of the same HP??? Would seem the Zukes are more inline with the High output of other manufactures. But hey, what do I know I am a dumbass.

Suzuki top end 70.1mph....... (zuke is running a 4 blade)
http://www.suzukimarine.com/Product.../Ranger Boats/Ranger Z521 C Bass Boat DF250SS

G2 top end 70.9mph( with 3 blade)
http://www.evinrude.com/Content/Pdf/neutral/performanceReports/1172_G2_250HO_RangerZ521c_Bass.pdf

we for sure disagree


----------



## ziggiey (Apr 6, 2010)

*Great article*



Jolly Roger said:


> Here are links to performance reports from a Suzuki 250 and Envirude G2HO 250 on the same exact hull. Mind you this is the G2 "HO" motor, not the regular G2 250hp.
> 
> Now after looking at this, you still going to claim Suzuki are slow compared to other motors of the same HP??? Would seem the Zukes are more inline with the High output of other manufactures. But hey, what do I know I am a dumbass.
> 
> ...


Sure do
G2 
70.9 at 5600
5.05 mpg at 34.6 best cruise
4.3 to plane
Suzuki
70.1 at 6000
4.13 mpg at 29.7 best cruise
5.9 to plane


----------



## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

ziggiey said:


> Sure do
> G2
> 70.9 at 5600
> 5.05 mpg at 34.6 best cruise
> ...


that was not 5.9 to plane on the Suzuki, that was to 25mpg........ it is a bass boat, they plane way before 25mph.

that also was the max RPMs the G2 would reach, so that was the max speed. You are comparing speeds at RPMs, just not how it works. Lower geared motors going to make more RPMs, and going to make them faster. If you understand much about hole shot, then you know the motor that spools up the fastest with the less slip wins hole shot.

The Suzuki was just as fast as the G2 "HO" on the same hull at WOT. kinda blows you whole BS argument out of the water.

really do not get this do you, goes back to the understanding of props. The G2 could make more RPMs, but it would have to loss Pitch or Diameter. Losing diameter means it may slip more, loss of pitch is a loss of speed. So there is always a trade off.

and growing up bass fishing, no one cares about MPG on bass boats. All about speed.


----------



## ziggiey (Apr 6, 2010)

*I got it*



Jolly Roger said:


> that was not 5.9 to plane on the Suzuki, that was to 25mpg........
> 
> that also was the max RPMs the G2 would reach, so that was the max speed.
> 
> really do not get this do you.


I had it long ago, speed is among other things rpm times gear ratio and a 2.08 ratio turns more pitch than a 1.86 turns to achieve similar speeds,never argued that. It looks like the G2 got better fuel mileage at a higher cruising speed and that is a reflection of gear ratio. you are happy with Suzuki and thats is all that matters. This thread started out as G2 vs Yamaha. Of the two I would buy either and be happy. I still haven't seen a Suzuki on an SCB or Mayek extreme. Mercury seems to be mostly on SCB and Yamaha on Mayek. Both these boats focus on speed. Suzuki is a good engine and they are a little less expensive than the others so more power to em. You win Suzuki is the best motor made and everyone should get one.
Good night to all.


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## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

ziggiey said:


> It looks like the G2 got better fuel mileage at a higher cruising speed and that is a reflection of gear ratio. .


Nope, wrong again.

The G2 did get better fuel mileage, but was not due to gear ratio. Your understanding of gear ratio and outboards is wrong.

merc are fast, most of the time the fastest. This has been there nitch for a long time. Merc racing made sure of this, no one disagrees. Suzuki is faster then Yamaha in most cases, the fact the Suzuki is as fast as the G2 in almost all HP ranges should be a big clue they are not slow.

Your claim was Suzuki were Slow.... this is BS. Suzuki run just as fast as the most modern 2stroke "HO" put out by Rude

I never claimed Suzuki was the best motor ever made. Just pointed out the facts. I own a lot of different brands of outboards, and am not married to any of them.


----------



## ziggiey (Apr 6, 2010)

*You won*



Jolly Roger said:


> Nope, wrong again.
> 
> The G2 did get better fuel mileage, but was not due to gear ratio. Your understanding of gear ratio and outboards is wrong.
> 
> ...


You are right, what was I thinking? I will get everyone I know to switch. Suzuki is the outboard God would put on his boat. I am sure SCB and Majek will switch after reading this thread and the original op will probably get a Suzuki now to. Thanks for showing me the light. Soon all outboards will be Suzuki!


----------



## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

ziggiey said:


> You are right, what was I thinking? I will get everyone I know to switch. Suzuki is the outboard God would put on his boat. I am sure SCB and Majek will switch after reading this thread and the original op will probably get a Suzuki now to. Thanks for showing me the light. Soon all outboards will be Suzuki!


does not surprise me that after all the back and forth you missed the point, seem to miss a lot


----------



## ziggiey (Apr 6, 2010)

*Only thing i will miss is this thread*



Jolly Roger said:


> does not surprise me that after all the back and forth you missed the point, seem to miss a lot


You are without a doubt the most knowledgeable person on this board, I thank you for sharing your knowledge and wisdom.I will continue to study gear ratios and prop pitch to further my own knowledge and will forever be humbled in your shadow and strive to enlighten everyone else about Suzuki being the best performing, best geared, least expensive, fastest ,most economical to operate motor. I will sell my boat and get a Suzuki motor for my next one.
Sincere Thanks,
ziggiey


----------



## ziggiey (Apr 6, 2010)

*Naw*



ziggiey said:


> You are without a doubt the most knowledgeable person on this board, I thank you for sharing your knowledge and wisdom.I will continue to study gear ratios and prop pitch to further my own knowledge and will forever be humbled in your shadow and strive to enlighten everyone else about Suzuki being the best performing, best geared, least expensive, fastest ,most economical to operate motor. I will sell my boat and get a Suzuki motor for my next one.
> Sincere Thanks,
> ziggiey


Or maybe not.


----------



## fishin shallow (Jul 31, 2005)

JR finally had one to many and passed out.


----------



## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

ziggiey said:


> You are without a doubt the most knowledgeable person on this board,


Nah, just more then you



fishin shallow said:


> JR finally had one to many and passed out.


Nope, got to work today so no drinky last night. Sucked passing all the boats this morning. Funny you would think I was the one drinking and not the guy who does not seem to understand gearing but claims to be some master boat rigger with special customers......

What most people should find the most interesting about these links and the speeds are that the Suzuki in the link was released ten years ago and the newest G2 "HO" can not out run it....

Yet we got the so called expert who is claiming Suzuki's are slow..... hahaha.

Suzuki top end 70.1mph....... (zuke is running a 4 blade)
http://www.suzukimarine.com/Product.../Ranger Boats/Ranger Z521 C Bass Boat DF250SS

G2 top end 70.9mph( with 3 blade)
http://www.evinrude.com/Content/Pdf/neutral/performanceReports/1172_G2_250HO_RangerZ521c_Bass.pdf


----------



## ziggiey (Apr 6, 2010)

*Can't stop huh*



Jolly Roger said:


> Nah, just more then you
> 
> Nope, got to work today so no drinky last night. Sucked passing all the boats this morning. Funny you would think I was the one drinking and not the guy who does not seem to understand gearing but claims to be some master boat rigger with special customers......
> 
> ...


I got on prop speed calculator again and fully understand gear ratios in relation to speed.
chart numbers
slip 6%
2.5 gear
33 pitch
70.5 mph
slip 6%
1.86 gear
24.6 pitch
70.6 mph
You would have to go up in pitch 8 to 9 to have same speed when comparing 2.5 ratio to 1.86, it's just math.


----------



## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

ziggiey said:


> I got on prop speed calculator again and fully understand gear ratios in relation to speed.
> chart numbers
> slip 6%
> 2.5 gear
> ...


 nah you still do not get it, that Suzuki that was released ten years ago and pushes the same hull just as fast as the New G2HO.

Nothing slow about it and for someone to claim a Suzuki 250ss is slow has no clue what they are talking about. Nothing you have said about gearing or Suzuki has been correct.


----------



## ReelWork (May 21, 2004)

Why don't y'all take this to a PM, gesh.


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## ziggiey (Apr 6, 2010)

*Ok*



Jolly Roger said:


> nah you still do not get it, that Suzuki that was released ten years ago pushes the same hull just as fast as the New G2HO.
> 
> Nothing slow about it and for someone to claim a Suzuki 250ss is slow has no clue what they are talking about. Nothing you have said about gearing or Suzuki has been correct.


I have used prop speed charts, simple math. You must just not want to believe the math. The difference in gear ratios require more pitch to achieve same speed with a lower ratio. It is black and white. Bring a shallow water bay boat with a 250 Suzuki and I round up a Yamaha, G1, G2 and Merc and we'll run em all.We can compare hole shot, mid range and top end.


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## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

ziggiey said:


> I have used prop speed charts, simple math. You must just not want to believe the math. The difference in gear ratios require more pitch to achieve same speed with a lower ratio. It is black and white. Bring a shallow water bay boat with a 250 Suzuki and I round up a Yamaha, G1, G2 and Merc and we'll run em all.We can compare hole shot, mid range and top end.


Why, I have already posted performance reports that show Suzuki with a faster hole shot and other links showing Suzuki 250ss pushing a boat the same speeds as a G2. Posted performance report of the Sukuki pushing boats to 80mph. You can look at the numbers, but you still do not understand it. You still fail to understand how that Suzuki 250ss can push the same hull just as fast as a G2.

Anyone who claims a Suzuki 250ss is a slow motor does not know what they are talking about.


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## ziggiey (Apr 6, 2010)

*Lets settle it on the water*



Jolly Roger said:


> Why, I have already posted performance reports that show Suzuki with a faster hole shot and other links showing Suzuki 250ss pushing a boat the same speeds as a G2. Posted performance report of the Sukuki pushing boats to 80mph. You can look at the numbers, but you still do not understand it.
> 
> Anyone who claims a Suzuki 250ss is a slow motor does not know what they are talking about.


Talk is cheap, articles on the internet are everywhere. Lets do an on the water test and post the results. What are you worried about?


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## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

ziggiey said:


> Talk is cheap, articles on the internet are everywhere. Lets do an on the water test and post the results. What are you worried about?


Performance reports that I posted are on the water test, with repersentives from the motor manufacture there. They usually test several props at the time, and make a lot of passes. Does not get any more real world then those links. Same hulls, different motors. In all of them the Suzuki is just as fast, in fact motor Suzuki released ten years ago is just as fast as the G2ho.

You really have no clue


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## ziggiey (Apr 6, 2010)

*Time to run them.*



Jolly Roger said:


> Performance reports that I posted are on the water test, with repersentives from the motor manufacture there. They usually test several props at the time, and make a lot of passes. Does not get any more real world then those links. Same hulls, different motors. In all of them the Suzuki is just as fast, in fact motor Suzuki released ten years ago is just as fast as the G2ho.
> 
> You really have no clue


Let's run em then, shallow water bay boats, 250 hp all brands. I am sure we could get a good sample. You have my number and I'll be waiting to hear from you. Time to hit the water.


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## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

ziggiey said:


> Let's run em then, shallow water bay boats, 250 hp all brands. I am sure we could get a good sample. You have my number and I'll be waiting to hear from you. Time to hit the water.


because that would make a difference why? most bay boat hulls are a lot like bass boat hulls, some are copy's of bass boat hulls. So not sure what your point is, or that you do not know this.

Guess you think that a Suzuki motor that can push a fat *** ranger bass boat 70mph same as the G2 is going to somehow be slower on a lighter bay boat hull with more hull factor for speed.


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## Gottagofishin (Dec 17, 2005)

How important is hole shot really on a boat like that? It's not a shallow water boat. I doubt you would be disappointed with the performance of either. The difference would be negligible. 

I'm an Evinrude fan, but the G2 looks like a Japanese cartoon character to me so I would go with the Yammie.


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## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

ziggiey said:


> Let's run em then, shallow water bay boats, 250 hp all brands. I am sure we could get a good sample. You have my number and I'll be waiting to hear from you. Time to hit the water.


here is a head up report for bluewave 2400 pure bay for Yamaha 300 and Suzuki 300. Suzuki is just as fast, nothing slow about it. The yamaha gets better MPG at 24mph, that is to slow. The Suzuki gets better MPG at 35mph where it matters the most.

0-30mph times the Suzuki was faster, by 2 seconds. That is a lot, Suzuki has a much faster hole shot then the Yamaha.

Suzuki 300apx 60mph top end
http://www.suzukimarine.com/Product...e Wave Boats/Blue Wave 2400 Pure Bay DF300APX

Yamaha f300 59mph top end (yamaha boat did have a T-top)

http://yamahaoutboards.com/sites/default/files/bulletins/BWB_2400PureBay_F300XCA_2013-04-24_BAY.pdf


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## railbird (Jan 2, 2009)

One tired of this subject. There has to be someone around with a 23' hayne or shoalwater cat out there with a 300hp Yamaha. I challenge all of you to a 1/8 mile race. Might as well settle this once and for all, we will also need to have a Mercury and a Suzuki as well. Let's meet later today at ha morons landing in aransas pass. Loser buys beer for winner and has crow for lunch. 

Let's do this! Wind has fishing conditions were boat racing sounds like more fun. Anyone interested in some not racing and general socializing?


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## railbird (Jan 2, 2009)

railbird said:


> One tired of this subject. There has to be someone around with a 23' hayne or shoalwater cat out there with a 300hp Yamaha. I challenge all of you to a 1/8 mile race. Might as well settle this once and for all, we will also need to have a Mercury and a Suzuki as well. Let's meet later today at ha morons landing in aransas pass. Loser buys beer for winner and has crow for lunch.
> 
> Let's do this! Wind has fishing conditions were boat racing sounds like more fun. Anyone interested in some not racing and general socializing?


Wow^^^^^

Sorry for this nonsensical post, my phone is auto correcting me senseless. So to clarify, anyone interested in settling this discussion, just indicate it here and I will meet you at hamptons landing at a time of your choosing today or tomorrow. If you want to pm me that's fine as well. It might be fun to sit around and discuss the day's events over some adult beverages after. I would think the best way to answer some questions about each motor is to see them on basicly identical hulls. There should be plenty around that fit this criteria. If someone wants to bring a 250 trp and join the fun I'm down for that race as well.

If there is an scb recon around with a mercury 300 on back, it might be interesting to see the difference between these 2 rigs as well. I've been outran many times by many different boats, so I ain't scared, bring on the stingrays as well.


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## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

railbird said:


> . I would think the best way to answer some questions about each motor is to see them on basicly identical hulls.
> .


the links I posted were the identical hulls with each motor....... hard facts tested by the motor manufactures themselves. Not sure what people are having a hard understanding about this, it is right in front of them in black and white. Suzuki is just as fast as G2HO and Yamahas on top end, and Mercury is a little faster then them all. In some cases the Suzuki has a much faster hole shot.

no one is claiming the Suzuki is the fastest, just pointing out that they are not slow as was claimed by a self proclaimed expert. Everything he said about Suzuki is wrong. Showed a complete lack of understanding of how motors make speed, would not wanting him touching my boats for any reason.


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## DougM (Sep 26, 2009)

*My personal experience*

I have owned two Haynie 24 Cats, one powered by a Suzuki 250SS the second was powered by a Yamaha 250SHO. Both boats were identical in configuration and weight. The Suzuki had a Suzuki prop, hole shot was good but top end sucked. Turned 5900 rpms and top speed was 49. The Yamaha had a Mercury prop with a hole shot equal to or better than the Suzuki but it turned 5800 rpms and a top speed of 57 mph. On both boats numerous prop testing was done, bottom line the Yamaha had faster speeds and better fuel economy.


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## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

DougM said:


> I have owned two Haynie 24 Cats, one powered by a Suzuki 250SS the second was powered by a Yamaha 250SHO. Both boats were identical in configuration and weight. The Suzuki had a Suzuki prop, hole shot was good but top end sucked. Turned 5900 rpms and top speed was 49. The Yamaha had a Mercury prop with a hole shot equal to or better than the Suzuki but it turned 5800 rpms and a top speed of 57 mph. On both boats numerous prop testing was done, bottom line the Yamaha had faster speeds and better fuel economy.


what size prop at 5900 ? Max RPMs for the Zuke is 6300, did you get there with any prop

an outboard does not magically push one hull to 70mph then push a similar hull with the same hull factors to 50mph. If your hull factor is the same, then the outboard will push the boat just as fast. If not then your set up is wrong. Yall blaming Suzuki when the problem is somewhere else. Was it zigg trying to set your boat up?


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## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

If it was Zigg that was trying to set your boat up, he failed and blamed the motor. Mostly because he does not understand gearing or how a motor makes speed. 

the Suzuki push bass boats, bay boats, offshore boats, hell even poontoon boats just as fast and at times faster as all other outboard manufactures yet yall seem to think it can not push a light weight cat hull as fast. Blame the motor, blame the gearing, etc.. when it was a failure of set up.


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## DougM (Sep 26, 2009)

Too much Suzuki cool aid consumed, no intelligent comment made by others can be absorbed at this time. Good bye


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## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

DougM said:


> Too much Suzuki cool aid consumed, no intelligent comment made by others can be absorbed at this time. Good bye


So it was Zigg who screwed up that boat

you had a problem with a Cat hull, he had a problem with a Cat hull....... He could not get a motor that pushes bass boats as fast as the newest, badest and latest Envirude G2 "high output" to push a light weight cat hull so he blamed the motor........... simple as that. A failure of set up.

I actually own all brands of outboards, not married to any of them. Want a pair of 350mercs on a fountain 34 in the near future.


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## DougM (Sep 26, 2009)

I do not know Zigg. Tired of wasting bandwidth. No further comments to cool aid.


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## railbird (Jan 2, 2009)

This thread has been so much derailed here. 4 strokes have their place in the market no doubt. On very fast boats, in my opinion, is not the place. As has been stated on many threads, prop can make or break performance on a boat. 

If you have a Yamaha 300 on a haynie or shoalwater 23' cat and you want to test against a g2 300, I'm your huckleberry. That seems like the easiest way to learn. If the op wants to go for a test ride pm me. If anyone else wants to see the g2 300 in action pm me.


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## FishinKidSteven (Feb 6, 2015)

Dang, I'm glad I made me some popcorn after my decision.


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## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

DougM said:


> I do not know Zigg. Tired of wasting bandwidth. No further comments to cool aid.


If that is the case then good chance the water was hitting the lower unit wrong from the tunnel. Those lower units on the older Suzuki were re-designed after there was problems with triple engine set ups and the lowers making to much drag on the outside motors due to some hydro factors.

Only a guess but the tunnel in the cat might have been doing the same thing. Still a set up problem, that can be corrected. If zigg rigs as many motors as he claims he should have known about this and got the set up correct on his Cat.

The 250ss motor is just as fast as ever other motor in the same HP range, still faster then some after ten years. They need to update it, add new injectors and lean burn to it for better MPG. If you are not getting the speeds from a 250ss it is not because of the motor or gearing. It is a set up problem, in your case would have taken someone that knows what they are doing to catch it. It sucks they did not get it dialed in for you.


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## RedXCross (Aug 7, 2005)

Reminds me of the Stewy days on here. LMAO, it never ceases to amaze me, carry on.


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## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

RedXCross said:


> Reminds me of the Stewy days on here. LMAO, it never ceases to amaze me, carry on.


Who is Stewy?

did he not understand gearing in outboards like Zigg?


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