# Oct Snapper season???



## ragin (Jun 15, 2013)

Did an Oct season materialize??? Or do we still have to keep saying we caught them in Tx???


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## awesum (May 31, 2006)

Last I heard it would tentatively be set for October 1 and last about 21 days. There is a meeting of the minds August 31 to determine our fate.


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## CHA CHING (May 21, 2004)

ragin said:


> Did an Oct season materialize??? Or do we still have to keep saying we caught them in Tx???


Not very smart dude...


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## trapper67 (Mar 23, 2011)

CHA CHING said:


> Not very smart dude...


 x 2


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## Fin Reaper (May 31, 2012)

Because I have a sense of humor I can laugh.


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## hilton (Jan 28, 2008)

Roy and Co. will decide how many days we get in October next week at the Council meeting in San Antonio. 

Of note is that it looks as though our reps on the Gulf Council are backing the regionalization plan set for approval at the October meeting.

Never mind that Texas landings are roughly 1/2 what they should be, and therefore our % of quota will be roughly 1/2 of what it should be if this regionalization plan comes to pass.

Never mind that this plan would allow the possibility of Alabama or Florida overfishing their quota and forcing Texas to to shut down all fishing - even in our Texas Territorial waters and even if we have not caught our allotted quota.

Never mind that Louisiana has shown with their Offshore Landings Permit that the feds' MRIP guesses have overestimated their recreational effort/landings by 70% or more - nobody is minding the store to determine if that error also has been happening across the Gulf. Louisiana has iwthdrawn from MRIP, as all other Gulf states should also do instead of pushing for so-called regionalization.

Never mind that this plan provides for the implementation of Sector Separation without even picking up the issue as promised and simply slipping it into the regionalization document as "reallocation between for-hire and private recreational sectors".

Never mind that TPWD data for the last few years shows that Texas charter vessels have been landing somewhere around 39,000 pounds/year. A more realistic number is closer to about 500,000 pounds - the enviro-fund CFA minions are all for regionaliation and are more than willing to ignore this egregious error not in their favor. TPWD's head of coastal fisheries steadfastly defends their data that shows enough snapper landed in 2012 for the Texas charter fleet to have 16 boats catching limits for 5 anglers each 30 days out of the 47 day season. What?

Everyone has been complaining about the data for years - it's now time for everyone to follow Louisiana's lead by changing the way the data is collected - either at the federal or state levels.

Anything less by this Gulf Council and state fisheries commissions is malfeasance of their duty to safeguard the interests of their constituents - the Gulf recreational fishermen.

Everyone needs to take the time to come to the Gulf Council meeting next week to speak their mind at public comments.

Capt. Thomas J. Hilton


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## country7 (May 27, 2007)

DFC said:


> Because I have a sense of humor I can laugh.


 \
X 2


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## hilton (Jan 28, 2008)

DFC said:


> Because I have a sense of humor I can laugh.


And because he hasn't prostituted his values to suck on EDF's financial tit for the promise of personal gain at the expense of the rest of the current and future Gulf recreational fishermen.


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## Swells (Nov 27, 2007)

Well I don't care about the fish politics - October is a great month to fish if you have a weather window, the red snapper are plentiful, and there's less fishing pressure. Also, it usually cools off a little so it's not a thousand degrees offshore. This just could be fun, since the tuna and ling should be running as well. Nice meat haul - two red snappuh, three blackfin tuna, and a fattie ling over 39 inches. Never know, might find a grouper and an AJ, too. Naw, that's too much meat to haul home in my fish box, right?

Not, said any bluewater fisherman.


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## hilton (Jan 28, 2008)

Yeah, people don't care for the politics, such as Obamacare, until it comes up and bites them on the butt. Catch Shares are EDF's version of Cap and Trade for our fisheries, and they are being enacted right under your nose, continuing the trend of liberal policy overreach of the Obama administration. And we have a group of good ol' boy captains right here in Texas (CFA) working hand in hand with these liberal blowhards to get it done.

Some people just don't have any shame.

Louisiana has shown us the way, yet, for some reason our TPWD reps just don't want to go there. * Louisiana has in fact withdrawn from the feds' MRIP debacle, and no longer allow the feds to control their data* - *it's time for all Gulf states to follow suit.* Anything less is dereliction of their duty, as stewards of our Public Trust Resources, to safeguard those resources for current and future generations of Gulf fishermen, and not give them away to a select few individuals/corporations for their personal profit.


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## hilton (Jan 28, 2008)

Looks like politics is going to be responsible for there possibly being NO fall red snapper season, from what I have heard.


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## Swells (Nov 27, 2007)

hilton said:


> Looks like politics is going to be responsible for there possibly being NO fall red snapper season, from what I have heard.


In that case, I won't land any red snapper, or at least my two. I don't care. I really don't know what fuming, whining, and beefing about it on a blog would do the least bit of good, anyway. I'm not as much of an activist about it but I fought hard for the last 5 years and look what we have - a total mess. It's getting where I don't hardly fish except the fall fish run and winter state water snapper. Most of the guys and gals I know who own bluewater boats have sold out, died, or moved out of the area. If that was the ultimate purpose of the government, I suppose it is working. Haha, sometimes the blue water comes in close enough that you can paddle a 'yak or SUP just past the second or third sandbar. I might get a Zodiac or something with a 5-10 HP motor because I'm getting older and lazier - them 'yaks is a lot of work and I don't like getting tumped over.

But tell me, did all that political stuff do the littlest thing for us?

And be careful about saying the TPWD is a bunch of eco-commies. That's not true and it's uncool. They are the ones that got US Judge Hanen in the Brownsville District to overturn the NMFS policy to short the Texas red snapper season because it was discriminatory. The TPWD along with several other states and friends of the court won. So now you're kicking the hand that fed ya, huh?

I think you're desperate irate, Tom. Of course the system is screwed up. But what are you going to do? Start a fish militia and overthrow the Federal gummint? We win little battles but we done lost the war. Obamacare is here to say no matter what Ted Cruz says. I'm just so tired of it all. I just don't have time to be permanently bummed out about little stinking pink fish. Ease your rudder - there are still fishies in the sea, and life goes on.


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## Mike Jennings (Oct 11, 2005)

Tom is correct. Currently at the council meeting. No fall season. This is going to be an intresting week


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## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

ragin said:


> Or do we still have to keep saying we caught them in Tx???


yes


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## hilton (Jan 28, 2008)

If regionalization goes into effect, the feds' will be able to close Texas territorial waters on the claim that Alabama or Florida overfished THEIR quota using this same flawed data. 

And Texas Parks and Wildlife is on board with this? Riechers needs a reality check.

Swells - you have every right to slide back in your easy chair and turn your backs on your fellow recreational fishermen. You also have every right to stick your feet in your mouth, as you often enjoy doing. This is America amigo.


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## ragin (Jun 15, 2013)

I partially agree that we are helpless to do anything. The feds, in my opinion, are enacting political payback to ruin the Gulf because La, Miss and Tx are Republican states. I can see no other reason to remove all the oil rigs, and have these insane limits. One poster said how his buddies have quit fishing ------ economic ruin is the goal of the feds.
this is a shame that the Fed gov is at war with its American people.


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## awesum (May 31, 2006)

hilton said:


> Looks like politics is going to be responsible for there possibly being NO fall red snapper season, from what I have heard.


And why am I not the least bit surprised?


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## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

hilton said:


> Looks like politics is going to be responsible for there possibly being NO fall red snapper season, from what I have heard.


The outcome of these meetings is always predetermined. Change the word meetings to hearings or public comment or any other NMFS business. They just go through the motions to make it all legal.


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## LD (Apr 28, 2012)

Well on my Oct trip I should not be required to use circle hooks! I am just wanting to fish snapper or not.


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## roundman (May 21, 2004)

*SOUTHEAST FISHERY BULLETIN *​ (Gulf of Mexico)​ 

*FB13-071 *
727-824-5305

*August 26, 2013 *
​​​ ​ *NOAA Announces Approval of an Exempted Fishing Permit for a Pilot Study by Gulf of Mexico Headboats Evaluating an Allocation-Based Management System *​​​ 
NOAA Fisheries has issued an exempted fishing permit (EFP) to the Gulf of Mexico Headboat Cooperative (Cooperative). The Cooperative consists of headboat owners/captains. The Cooperative intends to evaluate the efficiency of an allocation-based management system, using a limited number of headboats in a two-year pilot study. 

This study, to be conducted in the Gulf of Mexico, is intended to (1) assess whether such a system can better achieve conservation goals established in the Fishery Management Plan for the Reef Fish Resources of the Gulf of Mexico, (2) evaluate the effectiveness of a more timely electronic data reporting system, and (3) evaluate the potential social and economic benefits of an alternative management strategy for the headboat segment of the recreational fishing sector within the Gulf of Mexico reef fish fishery. 

The Cooperative requested an EFP that authorizes their members to harvest a specific amount of red snapper and gag at any time during the 2014 and 2015 fishing years. Their allocation is based on the Cooperative participants' 2011 aggregate landings of red snapper and gag as a percentage of the total landings in that year for each species. Those percentages were applied to the expected red snapper and gag recreational catches allowed for 2014 and 2015.​
The Cooperative was allocated 148,089 pounds whole weight (ww) for red snapper, based on the proposed red snapper recreational catch of 5.39 million pounds ww. The Cooperative was also allocated 42,114 pounds  gutted weight (gw) of gag, based on the current gag recreational catch of 1.519 mp gw. These weights will be translated into numbers of fish. 

NOAA Fisheries has authorized a maximum of 20 headboats to participate in the Cooperative. The Cooperative currently consists of 11 headboats, and it may add additional vessels before the 2014 fishing year begins. 

All vessels in the program will be required to purchase, install, activate, and maintain a Vessel Monitoring System. A participating captain will "hail out" as the vessel leaves the dock, and "hail in" at least one hour prior to landing, alerting law enforcement and port agents to his/her return. Landings will be reported at the end of the trip using electronic reporting software approved by NOAA Fisheries, and allocations will be monitored through the NOAA Fisheries Southeast Regional Office's Catch Share Program Web site. 

Academic researchers, in collaboration with the Cooperative, intend to conduct a socio-economic study of the anticipated effects of the change in headboat cooperative management using currently available data sources. Simultaneously, they will develop additional survey instruments to gather economic data for an analysis of the effects of the pilot project on Cooperative vessels after its first and second years. Data collection will emphasize impacts of the pilot project.


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## donf (Aug 8, 2005)

As stated above, this is nothing but political payback by the Feds against Texas and the other states that don't vote Democratic. 
In the meantime, I will continue to hammer my Texas snapper every chance I get, on the way back in of course.


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## hilton (Jan 28, 2008)

roundman said:


> *SOUTHEAST FISHERY BULLETIN *​ (Gulf of Mexico)​
> *FB13-071 *
> 727-824-5305
> 
> ...


 Regionalization of course sets the stage for this type of privatization of our recreational public trust resources with the â€œsuballocation between for-hire and private recreational fishermenâ€. *What a coincidence!*


Perhaps the states could still maintain the upper hand by prohibiting any vessel utilizing recreational catch shares from landing in their ports or even traversing through their state territorial waters â€" that is, unless the states are on board with this assault on our fish.


Capt. Thomas J. Hilton


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## donf (Aug 8, 2005)

Mike Jennings said:


> Tom is correct. Currently at the council meeting. No fall season. This is going to be an intresting week


It that it Mike? Has the fat lady sung, or is there hope that additional meetings this week will give us a fall season?


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## BIG PAPPA (Apr 1, 2008)

*It's Bigger than an October Bone kicked our way*



donf said:


> It that it Mike? Has the fat lady sung, or is there hope that additional meetings this week will give us a fall season?


It's Way Bigger than That. It's all about Turning OUR Resource into a Commodity for SALE to the Highest Bidder. Period. Mr Hilton has had them
figured out for quite some time now. Has the Fat Lady Sung????
I think She Has an Album out and it's for Sale to the Highest Political Backing Buyer. 
Think BEFORE you Vote.


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## Capt. Steve (Aug 29, 2005)

I thought it was a done deal and we were just waiting on them to set the number of days. I think the first saturday in october anyone that has a boat that can make it needs to go out in federal waters and catch a limit of snapper. Everyone could come into the jetties in one huge tight group where no one boat could be singled out and boarded. I follow all the rules but I have just had enough of this terrible miss management of our natural resource. I guess we could call it the Snapper Civil War. Our federal gov. is so out of touch with reality its scary. We need to send a clear message that we have had enough. We are just going to have to go out there and take back what has been taken away from us.


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## TrueblueTexican (Aug 29, 2005)

*I'll meet ya at the Jetty Mouth Steve*

Oct 1,2,3,4,5 with my limit of snapper and we can run the blockade -

I am going to do it anyway - civil disobedience due to law without representation !!!

Ya'll all want to GIVE AWAY your natural rights to a Goobermint that's run amok - I will take my chances and be represented in court by a good lawyer if it comes to it !!!

Thank God Texas is a red state -


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## Momma's Worry (Aug 3, 2009)

*snapper wars*

anyone really trust Texas Parks and Wildlife to look out for us rec's on this never ending snapper war?

I don't.....


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## Momma's Worry (Aug 3, 2009)

*Snapper Wars*

Capt Hilton ....Good Sir can you do the numbers(per boat) on this pilot program and show us how these select few(lotto winners) will come out ...who are these boats and owners?..... d law


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## SeaCreecherJR. (Oct 14, 2010)

Capt. Steve said:


> I thought it was a done deal and we were just waiting on them to set the number of days. I think the first saturday in october anyone that has a boat that can make it needs to go out in federal waters and catch a limit of snapper. Everyone could come into the jetties in one huge tight group where no one boat could be singled out and boarded. I follow all the rules but I have just had enough of this terrible miss management of our natural resource. I guess we could call it the Snapper Civil War. Our federal gov. is so out of touch with reality its scary. We need to send a clear message that we have had enough. We are just going to have to go out there and take back what has been taken away from us.


x2 Been thinking this might get some real attention


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## ABarnes (Aug 8, 2013)

What we should be concerned about is the precedence these measures set, not just for snapper, but for every other species we like to catch. Not to mention the economic hardship these regulations have placed on our neighboring communities. 

I haven't closely followed this issue until just recently, do we have an organization in place to at least represent the recreational fisherman's rights?


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## [email protected] (Jun 27, 2012)

I think the states regulating their own resources is a spectacular thing, at least in terms of a species like snapper. None of this will ever be put to rest though, there are too many people who make their money off of fisheries management and litigation, which has become as big a business as the fish that they regulate. Its really sad. I hope you guys get a bonus season and they don't use it as an overharvest statistic to bite you in the @ss when it comes to negotiate next years quota/season. That could very well happen, and fits their agenda nicely.


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## Oyster Dog (May 21, 2005)

Momma's Worry said:


> anyone really trust Texas Parks and Wildlife to look out for us rec's on this never ending snapper war?
> 
> I don't.....


This is NOAA's doing, not TPWD. TPWD has kept state waters open year round in defiance of the Feds for 10+ years.


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## donf (Aug 8, 2005)

ABarnes said:


> What we should be concerned about is the precedence these measures set, not just for snapper, but for every other species we like to catch. Not to mention the economic hardship these regulations have placed on our neighboring communities.
> 
> I haven't closely followed this issue until just recently, do we have an organization in place to at least represent the recreational fisherman's rights?


Yep is called the CCA, I'll leave it at that.


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## Fired Up (May 29, 2013)

Just currious - do the big manfactures involved in rec fishing ( PENN, Shimano, GradyWhite, Contender, Boston Whaler, Yamaha, Mercury etc. etc. ) put any pressure at high levels to help stem this tide? Not speaking of our fall season but rather on the nationwide rec issues..


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## donf (Aug 8, 2005)

You can listen to this BS live , even hear from that spineless little cork sucker Crabtree . Go to NMFS , live meetings, load go to meeting.


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## donf (Aug 8, 2005)

Capt Mike, Capt Tom, what was your take on the meeting today ?


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## Capt Buff (Aug 27, 2011)

*Not Sure What This Means to Oct Season*

I have read and reread this notice and can't see that this impacts a proposed Oct 2013 season. Could someone explain?

Thanks


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## C BISHOP (Dec 4, 2007)

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2013/08/fall_red_snapper_season_in_dou.html#incart_river_default


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## BFTMASTER (Aug 25, 2009)

I am going to start using "crabtree" to replace the F-word


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## hilton (Jan 28, 2008)

donf said:


> Capt Mike, Capt Tom, what was your take on the meeting today ?


OK - I am back from the dog and pony show.

EDF has recently hired and appointed a handler for the CFA front men - her name is Kristen McConnell, and you can see more here; http://www.edf.org/people/kristen-mcconnell

Ms. McConnell accompanied her EDF/CFA subordinates to the League City meeting a couple of weeks ago, the TPWD Commissioners meeting last week, and of course the Gulf Council meeting this week.

Her job is to fulfill the EDF mission as stated on their progress report;

*"The work we are doing with a core group of for-hire recreational fishermen, whose movement we helped develop and continue to support, called SOS (Save Our Sector/CFA), will be important to continue to move catch shares forward in the for-hire sector of the recreational red snapper fishery. *
SOS now has over 200 supporters across all five Gulf states. This membership, which includes boat owners and crew members, reflects a significant portion of the 1,100 licenses in the for-hire fleet. The group's work was a key factor in the Gulf Council's October decision to consider separation of the recreational sector into for-hire and private angler sectors in the generic Annual Catch Limit/Accountability Measures amendment, which will be subject to public hearings in either December or January and likely voted on next summer. *The amendment will form the foundation for a for-hire IFQ and harvest tags for private anglers.*"

I am sorry to report that my good friend Mike Jennings' conversion to the dark side is complete - Darth Cowboy has the hate flowing freely and draws upon this hate to increase his power as President of the CFA. He no longer denies that Sector Separation was about implementing IFQs in the Gulf recreational Fisheries, and in fact announced to the Council that The Charter Fisherman's Association is planning on presenting their plan for a Charter IFQ Cooperative at the next GC meeting. So long, dear friend.

Of course, Scott Hickman was there - you know, the same Hickman who several years ago claimed on this very site that "sector separation has NOTHING to do with catch shares, all we want is "accountability". Well, of course that statement has been proven to be totally false, as has most of the CFA claims, and is why you will notice they no longer post up on forums such as this.

It is also queer that these EDF-funded subcontractors (CFA) , while supporting the NMFS' Regionalization Plan, ignore the data that shows that *the entire Texas CFH fleet supposedly landed enough snapper for 16 CFH vessels in 2012 and previous years.* What about the other 180 or so federally-permitted charter vessels in Texas?

If this regionalization plan goes into effect, then the % of allocation that Texas CFH captains would be based on this egregiously flawed historical data. They couldn't care less, as long as they, as stated in item #1 of the SOS Plan - "*SECURE THEIR ALLOCATION*".

There was an Alabama CFH IFQ Cooperative proposal on the agenda, which by the way listed Dr. Greg Stunz as a Research Partner. When I contacted Dr. Stunz about this, he didn't know what I was talking about. They also listed the State of Alabama as a research partner. I find it appalling that any state agency endorses a plan that privatizes our Public Trust Resources, as IFQs/Catch Shares certainly do.

Inter-sector trading was also on the docket - you know, the concept of allowing the commercial red snapper barons to lease some of their quota to the Gulf recreational for-hire captains for their clients to catch.

*Why would recreational anglers be required to pay for quota from the commercial sector when these same commercial operators were not required to purchase this same quota? * That violates National Standard 4, which states: If it becomes necessary to allocate or assign fishing privileges among various United States fishermen, such allocation shall be (A) fair and equitable to ALL such fishermen. Looks to me that this concept is *ILLEGAL*.

How is it â€œfair and equitableâ€ to gift access to our fish to a select few commercial fishermen *FOR FREE*, yet provide mechanisms to charge recreational fishermen for these same fish, *with the monies going to commercial fishermen for their personal profit*? If the commercial red snapper IFQ fat cats were paying resource rent to the nation, that would be a much different story, but they aren't.

Amendment 28 which deals with changing the allocation % from 49% rec/51% comm is on the table. I support the idea of increasing the commercial red snapper quota to their original amount (51% of 9.12 mp) then giving any future increases to the recreational sector. Of note, is that the CFA is on record as being AGAINST increasing the recreational % - extremely strange, since it would be in the best interests of THEIR CLIENTS, the Gulf recreational fishermen to do so. Just shows that they are simply following the script laid out by their EDF handlers, and they couldn't care less how it affects the other Gulf recreational fishermen.

The states need to take control of the data as Louisiana has done - that is our only way to salvation.

Capt. Thomas J. Hilton


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## ABarnes (Aug 8, 2013)

Capt. Hilton,

What steps would we need to take to allow Texas to control the data and reporting mechanisms, following Louisiana's lead? 

Thanks! -ab


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## Oyster Dog (May 21, 2005)

Was there a final vote on regionalization?


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## ding-a-ling (Jul 29, 2005)

Wow, 200 licensed supporters across five Gulf states. 

The idea that a few hundred folks who make a profit off of a publicly owned resource can effectively limit the ability of tens of thousands of private citizens to enjoy that resource is nauseating. It's the few controlling the masses with money, lawyers, and handlers.

Thanks Tom for keeping us up to date and informed on the situation.


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## Captn C (May 21, 2004)

Regionalization and letting the states handle the regions would solve all our problems. That is the type plan i wish these guys would get behind. Supporting SOS or CFA makes it look like NMFS is correct in all their stock assessments and season limiting.

There are 5 states involved. Those states should be given a percentage of harvest according to that states percent of Red Snapper habitat. Habitat being defined as water under 250 foot in depth. I read somewhere that is considered their max depth, of course recently we've all found them deeper. But you have to have a line draw somewhere. 

I know that means Texas would get the Lions share, but we have more habitat than any other state. Sucks, but true!


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## Texcam (Mar 25, 2007)

The one's with the most lobbyist dollars usually wins.

Unfortunately the men with the briefcases loaded with money is what gets the most results.


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## silentpardner (Aug 4, 2013)

So, are we going to get a season in October or not? I didn't see anything definitive in the meeting report...perhaps I overlooked that?


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## Fin Reaper (May 31, 2012)

At this point after Hilton's explanation feels like the powers that be have yet again dealt us rec fishermen a sea urchin colonoscopy. The government and its minions serve corporations and big business. Period just my 2 cents


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## My Little Big boat (Apr 24, 2012)

silentpardner said:


> So, are we going to get a season in October or not? I didn't see anything definitive in the meeting report...perhaps I overlooked that?


Still has "Proposed" for the Oct. season... It is like waving the carrot on a stick in front of the donkey (us)

http://gulfcouncil.org/fishing_regu...x/Site/Regulations_Matrix.html?redirect=false


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## Snapperslapper22 (May 28, 2009)

BUMP. Any Word yet??????


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## hilton (Jan 28, 2008)

I think regionalization has been tabled until they resolve the obvious data deficiencies. Roy will tell us next week whether he deems an October season is going to happen or not - they changed the sampling (I think due to Louisiana's action to improve the data), so they are going back and re-run the numbers using the old methods. 

Texas ALSO needs to change the way it collects the data, and for some strange reason refuses to follow Louisiana's lead here. TPWD data shows that Texas charter captains landed 39,000 pounds of red snapper in 2012 - enough for 16 boats to fish 30 days out of that 47 day season. It's probably even worse for the private recs.

We are in the process of forming a P.A.C. to fight this at the legislative level - also met some people at the meeting who lobby at the Congressional level.

Capt. Thomas J. Hilton


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## acoastalbender (Jul 16, 2011)

hilton said:


> I think regionalization has been tabled until they resolve the obvious data deficiencies. Roy will tell us next week whether he deems an October season is going to happen or not - they changed the sampling (I think due to Louisiana's action to improve the data), so they are going back and re-run the numbers using the old methods.
> 
> Texas ALSO needs to change the way it collects the data, and for some strange reason refuses to follow Louisiana's lead here. TPWD data shows that Texas charter captains landed 39,000 pounds of red snapper in 2012 - enough for 16 boats to fish 30 days out of that 47 day season. It's probably even worse for the private recs.
> 
> ...


Out fricking standing...count me in to help any way I can...

.


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## ding-a-ling (Jul 29, 2005)

*madness*

And all the while as we go to scoping meetings, email legislators, and sign petitions regarding snapper, this is what is happening yesterday about 24 mi E out of Pt A because of the federal govt's (whose salaries we pay) infinite wisdom.

And no, that's not an installation taking place.


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## ROBALO23 (Jul 7, 2011)

Scott hickman this morning sounded positive there would be some type of snapper season in oct.


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## FISHINPOC (Jun 19, 2006)

any updates here?


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## Snookered (Jun 16, 2009)

Momma's Worry said:


> Capt Hilton ....Good Sir can you do the numbers(per boat) on this pilot program and show us how these select few(lotto winners) will come out ...who are these boats and owners?..... d law


I'm not sure how Hilton slices his math up between boats, but see if you can follow me....

those 11-20 boats out in Alabama will get gifted 148,089 lbs of whole weight snapper. so, if you divide that by 8lb fish, you get 18,511 actual whole snapper

now, with 6 people on a CFH boat (6-pack license) and if there are 11 CFH boats in this system, that 1,683 snapper per boat, with 6 people gives you 280.5 days-at-sea.....if there are the full 20 boats with 6 people, that gives you 154 days at sea....

that's with an assumed 8lb snapper average and 6-packs boats.....of course it may need to be adjusted some, but you get the idea...

that's for one small group in Alabama....pretty good increase in days-at-sea....

so the other side of the coin is that NMFS estimates that Texas CFH boats only caught 39,000 lbs of fish between ~180 boats??!!! at 8lb fish, with an average of 6 people on board, that's 4.5 days-at-sea for the Texas fleet....

of course, my "estimates" may be off a little, but that should tell you that NMFS/MRIP/MRFSS is under-estimating Texas landings by a factor of 10 compared to the Alabama crews over there....

it doesn't take a genius to see that the numbers are very, very far off....
snookered


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## hilton (Jan 28, 2008)

Actually, the EFP that will begin in January is for 11 headboats - only 1 in Texas, which is based out of Galveston. They have not approved the Alabama CFH EFP. You can expect the Texas CFA guys to be introducing their own EFP proposal at the next meeting. You can also expect to see some dazzling new collars and leashes for these CFA guys to be introduced as well, as EDF has designated a woman to be their handler at all public meetings.

So, if you assume that the average headboat carries about 60 passengers, then the numbers are; 148,089 / 11 boats = 13,462/boat. 60 x 16 pounds (2 8 lb fish) = 960 pounds per trip. 13,462/960 = 14 trips/year.

In the 4 other Gulf states, headboats account for about 6.5% of their total red snapper landings. In Texas, headboats account for about 70% of the landings. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY at the Gulf Council level, is even questioning that egregious discrepancy. And these are the people who are going to lead us out of this mess? My God.

Did I mention that Louisiana numbers show that the NMFS has been overestimating effort/landings over there by about 70%?

Bottom line - the data is all over the place - they need an *EXTREME MAKEOVER* across the board in a bad way. Of course, the people who have been responsible for collecting the data over the last few years don't see any issues with the data.

"The data is what it is" is a direct quote, on tape, from one of the people responsible for collecting the data.

That in itself is the MAJOR problem we are facing today - control of the data.

Capt. Thomas J. Hilton


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## Snookered (Jun 16, 2009)

hilton said:


> So, if you assume that the average headboat carries about 60 passengers, then the numbers are; 148,089 / 11 boats = 13,462/boat. 60 x 16 pounds (2 8 lb fish) = 960 pounds per trip. 13,462/960 = 14 trips/year.
> 
> Capt. Thomas J. Hilton


ah, this is for headboats.....

14 trips/year doesn't seem like any additional trips, actually it seems like that would be LESS trips....

kind of seems counterintuitive to give up potential trips during the 27 day season to get half as many trips just because you could *potentially* take them anytime throughout the year....

or I guess they don't want to fish them at all, but sell them outright for $$ to another operator.....

the math doesn't add up in this IFQ shell-game.....not one bit....
snookered


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