# Guide advice for bay/surf rod



## [email protected] (Jun 25, 2005)

I am building a rod for a buddy of mine who like to catch trout and reds in the surf using shrimp and cut mullet on a bottom rig, he also likes to fish from the bank using live bait. He has a bad leg so he doesn't wade out very far at all in the surf. I am thinking of using a blank that can be casted easily and I am thinking of using a castaway blank that is 7'6" that is medium power with a med. fast tip. He will be using like a curado or similar low profile baitcasting reel with it. If you can think of a better blank for that application I'd love opinions but in my experience a 7 and a half foot rod with a medium fast tip will cast pretty far and will be good for trout and reds. If I do end up going with that blank can yall suggest how many guides and what type guides and size of guides for that blank. This is a chart I found for concept guides http://merricktackle.com/tips/Fuji-Baitcasting-Chart1.pdf

It says to use 9 guides plus the tip. I was thinking 4 size 6's, 2 size 7's, 8, 10, and a size 12. The chart says the smallest guides used should be size 7's but I think 6's will do just fine. If you guys have a chart that you use for guide spacing I would love to see it if you can post it.

Also, for some reason I seem to be drawn to double footed guides, they seem more strong, is there any truth to that or are single footed guides just as sturdy? I bought the pack of fuji concept guides made out of alconite and the 4 biggest guides are double footed and then the size 6 guides are single footed. Do yall know of any reasonably priced guides that are all double footed? I'm thinking of maybe doing my buddy's 7.5 foot long rod with recoil guides. Anyways all 400 dolalrs worth of rod building supplies should be here tomorrow along with my instruction dvd by doc ski. I will probably get all my questions answered by that dvd but thought I'd get yalls opinions as well. Thanks for all the help I'm getting, I'm so gratefull to have this forum for newbs like me. I've learned so much already. Oh and last question, I want to learn how to do decorative wraps, no weaving but diamond wraps as well as chevron wraps, do yall know of any good books or dvd's that cover these things in detail? If my doc ski dvd doesn't cover decorative wraps I will be looking for some instruction on them. Thanks


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## [email protected] (Jun 25, 2005)

and one final question, has anyone ever done a dallas coyboys rod? I would like to get a decal of the cowboys star but can't find one anywhere. My buddy wants the rod to be cowboys themed and I have some ideas on what to do but I think it would really be lacking if it didn't have the cowboys decal.


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## fishin styx (Jun 30, 2009)

For the blank an MHX P903 would be hard to beat, almost an all around inshore blank that will handle not only casting those baits but also fighting the fish back to the bank.
You're close on the guides but you really don't need that many different sizes. I'd start with maybe an 8 and then use 6's for your runners, you could probably go smaller but I'm not sure what sort of line connections you'll be passing. 
Billy Vivona's book is probably the best I've seen, http://www.mudhole.com/Shop-Our-Catalog/Rod-Building-Books/Decorative-Wraps-by-Billy-Vivona. He does some pretty awesome wraps.
I'm not sure about a Cowboy's decal small enough for a fishing rod but you could always look into a Cowboy's themed Jersey Skinz from Mudhole, http://www.mudhole.com/Shop-Our-Catalog/Inlays-Trim-Bands/Jersey-Skinz-Decorative-Wraps. Their pattern should be item 016.


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## johnmyjohn (Aug 6, 2006)

Sounds like some good choices but the length might be an issue. I noticed you said he'll be throwing from the beach for the most part. I have built several 9 footers for what you discribed and the reel would work on them along with some bigger if he upsized. The length is for casting further if you wish and keeping the line out of the current as much as you can when soaking bait. You may not want to piece them together but the idea is to keep the light rod action where you can cast lures. These have been used and work.
http://2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/showthread.php?t=377635
http://2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/showthread.php?t=251425


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## [email protected] (Jun 25, 2005)

I think a 9 foot rod is too much. I think an 8 foot rod would be good but can't find one that is 8 feet that is medium power with a moderate fast tip for less than a hundred bucks and my total budget to work with is 140 bucks for raw materials, not making any profit on this rod. I found the 903 castaway blank for 50 and a 903 batson blank for 70. I would like to find an 8 footer for between 50 and 70 bucks but so far I haven't found anything. If I ever fish the surf for trout and reds I use a regular bay rod either 6.5 feet or 7 feet but that's using lures or popping corks. Also yall say that using guides bigger than size ten isn't the best idea. Can you tell me how many guides and of what size to use. Like should I use 4 or 5 size 6's then three 7's and an 8 and a 10? I appreciate all the help I can get.


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## Goags (May 28, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> I think a 9 foot rod is too much. I think an 8 foot rod would be good but can't find one that is 8 feet that is medium power with a moderate fast tip for less than a hundred bucks and my total budget to work with is 140 bucks for raw materials, not making any profit on this rod. I found the 903 castaway blank for 50 and a 903 batson blank for 70. I would like to find an 8 footer for between 50 and 70 bucks but so far I haven't found anything. If I ever fish the surf for trout and reds I use a regular bay rod either 6.5 feet or 7 feet but that's using lures or popping corks. Also yall say that using guides bigger than size ten isn't the best idea. Can you tell me how many guides and of what size to use. Like should I use 4 or 5 size 6's then three 7's and an 8 and a 10? I appreciate all the help I can get.


Have you seen the Castaway XP3 964 on Swampland's site?


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## Bill Stevens (Mar 8, 2008)

Thanks Goags! Can not resist making this post.

The XP3 964 from Swampland is the real deal!

James read this Internet Forum exchange (unedited as is) that took place a couple of years ago -

"hey guys

iam the guy with the 8ft popping blank that broke twice in the same spot,well it all resovled and good things have come of it i got and email from this guy who says he can show me how to make and 8ft croarker ican cast half way across the bay with micro guides,and being the smart fishing guide think iwant to see this, well we build one just like he says with stuff i order from he ,well i went this morning and ican throw that croaker half way across the bay.we put the micro guides all on top of the blank and look at it and go theres no way this is going to work !!!!!!!!!!!! but it does and will blow you away,so if you wanting to know the tricks of micro guides get ahold of Bill stevens at SWAMPLAND TACKLE and become a micro guide junkie you want be sorry

My reply:

Alan I am glad you made your initial post on this board -

Guys, Alan is a high profile full time professional charter captain working out of Rockport, Texas. This was his first exposure to a fishing rod built with the micro guide (all same size all on top) layout. Sounds like the thing worked! This is a high quality endorsement! He has the Castaway XP3 963 and 964 as test models.

Alan, custom builders need to build and sell enough rods like yours to stretch from High Island to Brownsville. The blanks are being used as crank bait rods at Amistad, Falcon, Toledo Bend and other Texas reservoirs - after you put them both through their paces there are several guys on this board who would like a report for their use as inshore long throw live bait rods. This report could open up new markets for custom builders.

Thanks


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## Goags (May 28, 2004)

James may not be ready for wrapping the micros, but I can attest to the fact that the XP3 964 can "reach out"....pic from a couple of yrs ago. Still need to finish up a XP3 963P setup spinning w/ the microwave butt guide.


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## CoastalBent (Aug 3, 2006)

I give a thumbs up to the XP3 964 as well. I also really like the 965... a little more muscle for not much added weight. Build it just like the one ^^ above. All micros all on top... I wish I had the time to build about 4 more for myself. Give Lance at Swampland a call and go for it!


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## [email protected] (Jun 25, 2005)

Looks like I am getting the metallic blue XP3 964. I don't know how I missed it but it's exactly what I want. Probably not going to do micro guides just yet but I will definitely give them a try soon. Anyone have any recommendations on guide sizes and spacing for the 8ft rod? Also is there a chart online that anyone can post a link to? The chart I have says to go up to size 14 guide for an 8ft rod but I think that's too big of a guide so I think I'll stick with size twelve as the biggest but don't know how many guides to use or how many of that particular size guides to use. Got most of my rod building stuff in today and did a few practice wraps and I'm really loving the power wrapper, I don't know what it's like to use a hand wrapper but I'm loving being able to use the foot pedal instead of spinning the blank by hand. Just waiting on my real seats and handles to come in tomorrow to start on my first rod which will be the 6'5" blank that swampland had on sale for 8 bucks. I would have easily paid 50 or 60 bucks for that blank, it's very light and sensitive and strong and will make a great wading rod. I'm watching my Doc Ski DVD as we speak hoping to learn how to do some decorative wraps. One question though, on the tip top, do you usually wrap over the tip top or just do a wrap that butts up against it?


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## [email protected] (Jun 25, 2005)

How may guides would yall use not including the tip top on a 6'5" casting rod and how many would yall use on a 8ft casting rod? I found a spacing program at acid rod but it doesn't tell you how many guides to use just tells you the spacing depending on how many guides you use


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## Goags (May 28, 2004)

James, on that 8' and if not going all on top micro, I'd go w/ 9 guides plus a Ttop(BFAT), a 8Double ft (BLNAG)and the rest 6 Single ft.(BLAG). No one likes to give spacing because you're better off taping them up and doing static deflection, and tweaking from there and test casting. On the 964 that I showed, I went w/ a 11 1/2" butt behind the reel seat for 2 handed baitcaster. Everyone has their favorite guides/sizes. On a 6 1/2 ft, I'd plan for 7 or 8 guides plus the tiptop.


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## [email protected] (Jun 25, 2005)

Thanks I appreciate the advice. Can you do some static testing with the guides just taped on?


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## sason209 (Nov 6, 2021)

[email protected] said:


> I am building a rod for a buddy of mine who like to catch trout and reds in the surf using shrimp and cut mullet on a bottom rig, he also likes to fish from the bank using live bait. He has a bad leg so he doesn't wade out very far at all in the surf. I am thinking of using a blank that can be casted easily and I am thinking of using a castaway blank that is 7'6" that is medium power with a med. fast tip. He will be using like a curado or similar low profile baitcasting reel with it. If you can think of a better blank for that application I'd love opinions but in my experience a 7 and a half foot rod with a medium fast tip will cast pretty far and will be good for trout and reds. If I do end up going with that blank can yall suggest how many guides and what type guides and size of guides for that blank. This is a chart I found for concept guides http://merricktackle.com/tips/Fuji-Baitcasting-Chart1.pdf
> 
> It says to use 9 guides plus the tip. I was thinking 4 size 6's, 2 size 7's, 8, 10, and a size 12. The chart says the smallest guides used should be size 7's but I think 6's will do just fine. If you guys have a chart that you use for guide spacing I would love to see it if you can post it.
> 
> Also, for some reason I seem to be drawn to double footed guides, they seem more strong, is there any truth to that or are single footed guides just as sturdy? I bought the pack of fuji concept guides made out of alconite and the 4 biggest guides are double footed and then the size 6 guides are single footed. Do yall know of any reasonably priced guides that are all double footed? I'm thinking of maybe doing my buddy's 7.5 foot long rod with recoil guides. Anyways all 400 dolalrs worth of rod building supplies should be here tomorrow along with my instruction dvd by doc ski. I will probably get all my questions answered by that dvd but thought I'd get yalls opinions as well. Thanks for all the help I'm getting, I'm so gratefull to have this forum for newbs like me baitcast guides. I've learned so much already. Oh and last question, I want to learn how to do decorative wraps, no weaving but diamond wraps as well as chevron wraps, do yall know of any good books or dvd's that cover these things in detail? If my doc ski dvd doesn't cover decorative wraps I will be looking for some instruction on them. Thanks


I've been watching experienced anglers all use centerpins down at the river to control their drift. Being new to float fishing and being a bit intimidated by the whole centerpin idea, I did some research and discovered baitcasters is the next best thing, definitely better than spinning setups. So I bought a 10 ft Shimano Clarus (the longest baitcaster I could find in store), and repurposed one of my bass baitcaster reels for the task at hand. Already tried it once the other day. Needless to say, had some frustrated experience, and here are some notes, hope it helps somebody else:
1) Use heavier float to add more weight---20g is what I used. 
2) Obviously a slip float setup is needed. Unfortunately, baitcaster rods have small guides, so you're pretty much limited to the length of the rod for depth.
3) Forget about normal casting, didn't work for me. Flipping seemed the only way I could reliably cast the stuff in the water without causing a birds nest. I'm not new to baitcasters, I did play with both brakes.
4) Shotting patterns----kinda had to forget about it







bulking the weight seems the only way to reduce frustration.
5) I'm yet to try with those thrill bobber stops, perhaps they'll go through the guides easier allowing me longer depth. Rubber bobber stops = no way through the guides.
6) The good news: when you finally get the stuff to go in the water where you want it to be, then baitcaster performs really well letting line out under the pull of the float in the current.
Anyone has any tips, pls share. Will be greatly appreciated!


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## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

*sason209 did you notice this is an 11 year old thread?*


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