# United Airlines new polices



## Sugar Land YAK (Jun 19, 2004)

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/video-man-pulled-from-seat-dragged-off-oversold-united-flight/

United Airlines tweeted about the incident, saying, â€œone customer refused to leave voluntarily and law enforcement was asked to come to the gate.â€


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## ChuChu (Jan 23, 2010)

Why was he asked to leave? Those that arrived last should have taken the next plane. He was already seated. I hope he sues them for all they are worth.

United admits they have no policy for overbooked flights.


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## MarkU (Jun 3, 2013)

Folks, this is why you don't fly Coach.


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## ChuChu (Jan 23, 2010)

What makes the last arriving passengers more important than others? They need to learn to get there on time.


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## ChuChu (Jan 23, 2010)

MarkU said:


> Folks, this is why you don't fly Coach.


This is why you don't fly United.


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## sharkinaggie07 (Oct 1, 2016)

This is why you don't fly United. I am sorry but that airline has no interest in assisting customers or making their traveling experience enjoyable. I travel quite a bit and I avoid United like the plague. For that company, it is all about being as profitable as possible...no matter what the cost. United has been headed steadily downward since the continental/united merger. 

-SA

P.S. United oversells EVERY flight. They bank on the fact that not all passengers are going to make the flight. Puts them in a bind when all the passengers end up showing up though.


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## Too Tall (May 21, 2004)

ChuChu said:


> What makes the last arriving passengers more important than others? They need to learn to get there on time.


Another article I read said the passengers were bumped because United needed to get 4 employees to that destination.


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## Sugar Land YAK (Jun 19, 2004)

Too Tall said:


> Another article I read said the passengers were bumped because United needed to get 4 employees to that destination.


So does that make it ok?


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## sotexhookset (Jun 4, 2011)

That's bs if the circumstances are true. I'd be pisssed too.


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## Shallow_Minded (Sep 21, 2004)

sharkinaggie07 said:


> This is why you don't fly United. I am sorry but that airline has no interest in assisting customers or making their traveling experience enjoyable. I travel quite a bit and I avoid United like the plague. For that company, it is all about being as profitable as possible...no matter what the cost. United has been headed steadily downward since the continental/united merger.
> 
> -SA
> 
> P.S. United oversells EVERY flight. They bank on the fact that not all passengers are going to make the flight. Puts them in a bind when all the passengers end up showing up though.


Every airline overbooks their flights.


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## hunterjck (Sep 30, 2010)

*United Ejecting Passenger*



ChuChu said:


> Why was he asked to leave? Those that arrived last should have taken the next plane. He was already seated. I hope he sues them for all they are worth.
> 
> United admits they have no policy for overbooked flights.


United wanted the seats for their employees going to another destination - not for other commercial passengers.
I think United was wrong to behave in this manner and I hope the doctor does all he can to teach United a lesson.


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## Lexy1 (Jul 12, 2012)

sharkinaggie07 said:


> This is why you don't fly United. I am sorry but that airline has no interest in assisting customers or making their traveling experience enjoyable. I travel quite a bit and I avoid United like the plague. For that company, it is all about being as profitable as possible...no matter what the cost. United has been headed steadily downward since the continental/united merger.
> 
> -SA
> 
> P.S. United oversells EVERY flight. They bank on the fact that not all passengers are going to make the flight. Puts them in a bind when all the passengers end up showing up though.


This is exactly true.
Two years ago, a friend (a family of 4) used United to flight to Cabos. For some reason, United asked him to take the next available flight (4 hours later). They did accommodate him with 4 vouchers ($250/each) and he took that. Lol.


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## BullyARed (Jun 19, 2010)

hunterjck said:


> United wanted the seats for their employees going to another destination - not for other commercial passengers.
> I think United was wrong to behave in this manner and I hope the doctor does all he can to teach United a lesson.


and his patient too!


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## K LoLo (Sep 5, 2012)

All airlines overbook flights. Typically though, it is handled before people board, and it is to fit all paying customers on. This was different because everyone had already boarded, but United needed/wanted to get a crew on board to get to the next destination.

They should have just kept raising the amount of vouchers until someone took it. I think Chicago to Louisville is a 5 hour drive? Offer someone $1,000+ voucher, plus a car rental, and a hotel voucher somewhere and they'll take it, no doubt. United over-reached and now they're going to pay in the form of legal fees, and probably even more bad press.


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## Drundel (Feb 6, 2006)

I flew a LOT over the years and never saw an incident like that. Plenty of drunks get kicked off, but never the police brought on the plane.


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## Spirit (Nov 19, 2008)

Some days you be da windshield, some days you be da bug. At least boy bugs don't scream like girl bugs, fall down like baby bugs and have to be drug off when they hit the windshield.

The man had every right to be angry but his actions caused the problem. He was asked to leave the plane and refused. Hopefully, if any of you were in that situation, even though everyone on the plane would know how you felt about it, you'd be man - or woman - enough to comply and walk out on your own.


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## 98aggie77566 (Jul 7, 2009)

They would have had to drag my fat *** off the plane too!!

Gate agents and crew screwed the pooch on this one....

Once people are checked, seated....it's done.

If someone was late and they gave away their seat...tough...catch the next flight.

As for bumping a paying passenger that is already seated for an employee? I hope the doctor retires in comfort and flies first class on any airline but United going forward.


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## Sugar Land YAK (Jun 19, 2004)

The gate agent should be fired, along with the two police officers (they should of have told United to take it & stick it0. He wasn't breaking any laws).

The head of the FAA should be held accountable as well.

Funny how the European news agencies showed it before the US news.


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## Grumpy365 (Oct 21, 2010)

Man forcibly dragged off plane after refusing to give up seat, United Airlines CEO responds

CHICAGO â€" A man claiming to be a doctor was forcibly dragged off a United Airlines flight from Chicago to Louisville on Sunday night after he refused to give up his seat on an overbooked flight, according to the Louisville Courier-Journal.

The video shows the man screaming as he is dragged off the plane by uniformed personnel.

United officials told passengers the plane would not take off until four of its employees, who needed to be in Louisville on Monday morning to service a flight, were seated.

Audra Bridges told the Louisville Courier-Journal that the flight was overbooked and passengers were offered $400 and a free hotel room in exchange for their seat. When no passengers took the offer, the airline doubled the offer to $800.

When no passengers took the $800 offer, the computer randomly selected four passengers to be removed from the flight and placed on a Monday morning flight.

Two passengers gave up their seat without incident before the man, who is shown in the video, was confronted by security.

The man said he needed to be in Louisville on Monday to meet with his patients. He later called his lawyer before a security officer confronted him.

When the man refused to get off the plane, two more security officers arrived, pulled him out of his seat as he was screaming, and dragged him out of the plane.

The Courier-Journal reported the man later returned to the plane and received medical attention for a bloody face. The flight was delayed for about two hours.

â€œEveryone was shocked and appalled,â€ Bridges said. â€œThere were several children on the flight as well that were very upset.â€

United issued a statement:

â€œFlight 3411 from Chicago to Louisville was overbooked After our team looked for volunteers, one customer refused to leave the aircraft voluntarily and law enforcement was asked to come to the gate. We apologize for the overbook situation.â€

http://fox59.com/2017/04/10/man-for...-refusing-to-give-up-seat-to-united-employee/


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## piratelight (May 2, 2008)

I fly 2 - 4 flights a week. Almost exclusively united. I fly them because iah is a hub and any other airline I'll have to make connections every trip. I really haven't noticed any sort of difference in any of the airlines service. They all over book and all have money as their top priority, as does any business. All that said dude should have got up and left when asked. I would have been really ****** off if I was waiting to get home to my family and this jerk was holding the whole plane up. **** happens suck it up and take the vouchers or miles. Don't drag everyone on the plane down with you. 


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## 98aggie77566 (Jul 7, 2009)

piratelight said:


> I fly 2 - 4 flights a week. Almost exclusively united. I fly them because iah is a hub and any other airline I'll have to make connections every trip. I really haven't noticed any sort of difference in any of the airlines service. They all over book and all have money as their top priority, as does any business. All that said dude should have got up and left when asked. I would have been really ****** off if I was waiting to get home to my family and this jerk was holding the whole plane up. **** happens suck it up and take the vouchers or miles. Don't drag everyone on the plane down with you.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I guess flying 2-4 flights per weeks makes you a far more patient passenger in dealing with airline bull caca.

Airline vouchers would have been fine....but I would have sat my fat *** in the seat and let the bidding begin. When they got to a $ that covered my level of "pizzed offedness"....then we have a deal 

From what I read, they didn't offer him any voucher....it was some luck of the draw as to who got bumped to make a seat for an airline employee.


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## Grumpy365 (Oct 21, 2010)

piratelight said:


> I fly 2 - 4 flights a week. Almost exclusively united. I fly them because iah is a hub and any other airline I'll have to make connections every trip. I really haven't noticed any sort of difference in any of the airlines service. They all over book and all have money as their top priority, as does any business. All that said dude should have got up and left when asked. I would have been really ****** off if I was waiting to get home to my family and this jerk was holding the whole plane up. **** happens suck it up and take the vouchers or miles. Don't drag everyone on the plane down with you.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Why is a united employee more valuable than he is?

He booked in advanced, paid and was seated.

This is a case of someone making decisions at a level they were not qualified to make.

And dude is going to get PAID. Plus all the bad press they will get.

(And I fly almost weekly, but I fly SWA, not that it makes ANY difference at all)


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## piratelight (May 2, 2008)

I didn't see anywhere in the article where it said they bumped them because of crew? If that was the case i bet if he was sitting in the terminal waiting on arriving crew he would probably be happy about a stranger being bumped so that he had crew for his flight. Airports seem to bring the worst out in folks. 


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## Spirit (Nov 19, 2008)

Grumpy365 said:


> Why is a united employee more valuable than he is?


Last I checked, United owned the plane.


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## piratelight (May 2, 2008)

Spirit said:


> Last I checked, United owned the plane.


Bingo. It's not about the crew it's about the plane full of other paying customers waiting on them. Bumping for is way better than canceling a whole plane full.

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## Jamaica Cove (Apr 2, 2008)

United was wrong and the passenger was wrong in the way he acted. Lose Lose for both IMO.


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## Grumpy365 (Oct 21, 2010)

Spirit said:


> Last I checked, United owned the plane.


He bought that seat.

Semantics


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## ChuChu (Jan 23, 2010)

piratelight said:


> I didn't see anywhere in the article where it said they bumped them because of crew? If that was the case i bet if he was sitting in the terminal waiting on arriving crew he would probably be happy about a stranger being bumped so that he had crew for his flight. Airports seem to bring the worst out in folks.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


There are other articles than the one posted for details. They bumped him because a crew needed to be at a different location, not to fly the plane they were on. There already was a crew assigned to that flight. 
Airports seem to bring out the real United.


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## Sugar Land YAK (Jun 19, 2004)

piratelight said:


> Bingo. It's not about the crew it's about the plane full of other paying customers waiting on them. Bumping for is way better than canceling a whole plane full.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





Jamaica Cove said:


> United was wrong and the passenger was wrong in the way he acted. Lose Lose for both IMO.


Ha, United will be the bigger loser in about 2 years.


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## ChuChu (Jan 23, 2010)

piratelight said:


> Bingo. It's not about the crew it's about the plane full of other paying customers waiting on them. Bumping for is way better than canceling a whole plane full.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


BS! They should have bumped the last four people that boarded. Or better yet get the employees a flight on a different plane or airline.


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## Texas T (May 21, 2004)

Too Tall said:


> Another article I read said the passengers were bumped because United needed to get 4 employees to that destination.


I as an employee had to declare a "Must Ride" several times during my career. The declaration only worked outbound and not homeward bound. Company hated to bump paying customers but sometimes it would cost a lot more by not bumping them.


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## MarkU (Jun 3, 2013)

First rule about United Flight Club. Don't talk about United Fight Club!


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## 98aggie77566 (Jul 7, 2009)

See rule #25....

https://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/contract-of-carriage.aspx#sec25

Perhaps I don't understand the official definition of boarding....but once I go through the gate, check my ticket and sit down in my seat on the plane....I consider myself boarded. Seems to me all of their policies in the Contract of Carriage talk about what they can do for oversold flight PRIOR to boarding.

Now....if I get bumped before all that happens....I can live with it. Wont be happy but will take my voucher and go about my business.


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## Empty Pockets CC (Feb 18, 2009)

It's a lose lose situation. United will have to pay damages for some stuff you see in the phone books and late night TV. Emotional distress, loss pay, injuries, medical bills, blah blah blah. 
The real sufferers in the situation are the paying customers of United. Their fares just went a little higher because of the behavior of the company and passenger. We all pay...We all lose...


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## JED (Nov 14, 2004)

Another issue that hasn't been brought up with this incident is that United used LEO's to enforce the 'policy'. Since when do police enforce the private policy of businesses or any other civil matter? 
The passenger hadn't been disruptive in any way or broke any law, he only refused to give up his seat. They could have picked someone else without resorting to physical removal.


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## Warlock1 (Jun 17, 2016)

The employees flying were a dead head crew needed to fly another aircraft...or strand another 150 passengers...its rare that $800.00 and a free nights accommodation wont find a few volunteers...we want cheep tickets this is the system. FAA mandates crew flying hours and how things are done....this is what you get...as for flights being oversold its not as common as you think but it does happen. United A320 and 737 can normally be oversold by two seats but some routes are zero...no sympathy here...and was picked by the computer...needs to be banned from flying as far as I am concerned....


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## THA (Jan 5, 2016)

Warlock1 said:


> The employees flying were a dead head crew needed to fly another aircraft...or strand another 150 passengers...its rare that $800.00 and a free nights accommodation wont find a few volunteers...we want cheep tickets this is the system. FAA mandates crew flying hours and how things are done....this is what you get...as for flights being oversold its not as common as you think but it does happen. United A320 and 737 can normally be oversold by two seats but some routes are zero...no sympathy here...and was picked by the computer...needs to be banned from flying as far as I am concerned....


I have been on a couple of flights where they overbooked and the same seat assigned to two different people. Little bit of a stir but it was first come first served on the seating. Think on one flight, the second passenger was offered first class. Most airlines have a percentage of no shows and they will overbook just short of that percentage. Happens on some popular flights often. They usually catch it at the gate.


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## piratelight (May 2, 2008)

Warlock1 said:


> The employees flying were a dead head crew needed to fly another aircraft...or strand another 150 passengers...its rare that $800.00 and a free nights accommodation wont find a few volunteers...we want cheep tickets this is the system. FAA mandates crew flying hours and how things are done....this is what you get...as for flights being oversold its not as common as you think but it does happen. United A320 and 737 can normally be oversold by two seats but some routes are zero...no sympathy here...and was picked by the computer...needs to be banned from flying as far as I am concerned....


Nailed it. No fly list. Not enough consequences for acting a fool at the airport, or blatantly wasting everyones time. Seriously, what did he think was gonna happen. Special little snowflake. I hope they don't give him squat.

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## Grumpy365 (Oct 21, 2010)

Texas T said:


> I as an employee had to declare a "Must Ride" several times during my career. The declaration only worked outbound and not homeward bound. Company hated to bump paying customers but sometimes it would cost a lot more by not bumping them.


For $3,200.00 (the $800 a piece that was offered X 4 add in the hotel / meal vouchers PLUS the bad pub and ill will) it seems to me like they could have dang near chartered a plane for their employees. (probably not a jet, but a prop plane)


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## Bustin Chops (Feb 3, 2008)

I disagree he had paid for his seat. United should have kept upping the price until someone volunteered to give up their seat. That man did nothing wrong. I hope he sues the **** out of United. United could have found another way to get their crew somewhere else. I stand with the man.


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## ChuChu (Jan 23, 2010)

piratelight said:


> Nailed it. No fly list. Not enough consequences for acting a fool at the airport, or blatantly wasting everyones time. Seriously, what did he think was gonna happen. Special little snowflake. I hope they don't give him squat.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


His lawyers will have their day in court.


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## TranTheMan (Aug 17, 2009)

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/comp...oval-an-upsetting-event/ar-BBzES5O?li=BBnb7Kz
...
"I apologize for having to re-accommodate these customers. Our team is moving with a sense of urgency to work with the authorities and conduct our own detailed review of what happened," United CEO Oscar Munoz said in a statement Monday. Munoz said the airline is trying to reach the passenger to "further address and resolve this situation.
United's contract of carriage says the airline can select passengers to bump to a later flight, based on a priority system that can take into account how much passengers paid, how often they fly, whether missing that flight could affect a connecting flight and how early they checked in. People with disabilities and unaccompanied minors are generally last to be bumped.Usually, passengers - however angry - comply with the airline's orders. But even if it's an unusual situation, it raises questions about what rights passengers have when being removed from a flight against their will,..."


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## ChuChu (Jan 23, 2010)

TranTheMan said:


> http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/comp...oval-an-upsetting-event/ar-BBzES5O?li=BBnb7Kz
> ...
> "I apologize for having to re-accommodate these customers. Our team is moving with a sense of urgency to work with the authorities and conduct our own detailed review of what happened," United CEO Oscar Munoz said in a statement Monday. Munoz said the airline is trying to reach the passenger to "further address and resolve this situation.
> United's contract of carriage says the airline can select passengers to bump to a later flight, based on a priority system that can take into account how much passengers paid, how often they fly, whether missing that flight could affect a connecting flight and how early they checked in. People with disabilities and unaccompanied minors are generally last to be bumped.Usually, passengers - however angry - comply with the airline's orders. But even if it's an unusual situation, it raises questions about what rights passengers have when being removed from a flight against their will,..."


In other words, United is trying to cut their losses.


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## Grumpy365 (Oct 21, 2010)

piratelight said:


> Nailed it. No fly list. Not enough consequences for acting a fool at the airport, or blatantly wasting everyones time. Seriously, what did he think was gonna happen. Special little snowflake. I hope they don't give him squat.


 I am so confused by people. You have a guy who stands up for himself on a issue where he thinks he is right, and he is a "special little snowflake".

But he caves and lets people walk over him, he is somehow ....... what?

If you want to bend over and, continually take it up the ,,,,, you get it, bend over, but why hate on someone who refused?

And do you support a no fly list for US citizens? How do you justify that to yourself? Is he a danger to national security? What is the intent of the no fly list? is it to punish people or is to protect the people form terrorist?


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## Aquafowler (Aug 9, 2016)

Dang, I hope they don't pull that with me in a couple months. Flying w/ wife and 2 small children. We will NOT be separated! All 4 of us will have paid seats.


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## ChuChu (Jan 23, 2010)

Grumpy365 said:


> I am so confused by people. You have a guy who stands up for himself on a issue where he thinks he is right, and he is a "special little snowflake".
> 
> But he caves and lets people walk over him, he is somehow ....... what? "special little snowflake"
> 
> If you want to bend over and, continually take it up the ,,,,, you get it, bend over, but why hate on someone who refused?


But he caves and lets people walk over him, he is somehow ....... what? "special little snowflake"


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## poppadawg (Aug 10, 2007)

Very, very simple solution. Unitied should have kept jacking up the rewards till 4 people took them. EZ PZ


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## Billygoat (Feb 1, 2013)

Not sure why everyone seems to be blaming United on this one (not just here, it's all over the internet). They overbooked, yes, that's on them for sure. Nobody would volunteer to give up their seats (I wouldn't either), so they used whatever system they use to come up with who gets bumped.

They ask him to leave, he refuses. From there out, nothing to do with United. Same as calling the cops for somebody trespassing, then the cops show up and beat them up, then everyone blames the property owner for the cops' actions?


I CAN'T WAIT TO HEAR THE OTHER SIDE OF THIS.


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## cman (Apr 17, 2009)

> Very, very simple solution. Unitied should have kept jacking up the rewards till 4 people took them. EZ PZ


I agree with this.


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## Warlock1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Its all spelled out in the contract of Carriage for the ticket and DOT regulations...but what gets this guy a pass for not listening to the requests of three Aviation City of Chicago Police Officers...its a crappy situation but its how it works...and yes there should be a ban list for stupid behavior on airlines...


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## Byrdmen (May 15, 2013)

It's really not united, looking at the picture looks like an Embraer 170, United owns no E170s, that is a whole different company flying under contract for United. Bet you thought when you called their 800 number and bought a ticket it was on a United flight!

Oh, and several airlines don't oversell. I'll let you look them up.


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## Ernest (May 21, 2004)

EZ PZ is that they don't have to offer you anything. They merely have to ask you to exit the aircraft. 

EZ PZ is that you are to follow their instructions, or you face a potential civil fine if not a felony charge. Does he not speak English? 

Special snowflakes think the rules and the contract never apply to them. But, it do. As this special snowflake will likely soon find out. 

Plus, he should count himself lucky he was not tazed. I would have tazed him. If that did not work, a pistol whipping. He wants to play stupid games, he deserves a stupid prize like spitting out a few teeth while coughing up a quart of blood. 

His emotional defects from being bent over and taking it his whole life are his problem, not the airline's. United's problem is that they refuse to pistol whip people like this, so it sends a poor message. The message needs to be - Obey the instructions of your flight crew at all time or enjoy french kissing the mag well of this Sig. That's the kinda message that moves ignorant people like this guy. Its all about communicating in a language your audience can understand.


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## Gottagofishin (Dec 17, 2005)

There is nothing new about the policy of bumping folks in oversold situations. It sounds like airport police might have mishandled the situation, but people getting bumped happens all the time. 

If you decided to make a scene on a plane or inside a secure area of an airport, be prepared to be detained in some form. You may feel you are absolutely in the right, but you need to be ready to be inconvenienced if you refuse to do as asked. 

Also, unless you have frequent flyer status, the cheaper your ticket the more likely you are to get bumped. If they have to choose between the business traveler who paid full fare, or the occasional vacationer who paid 80% less on Orbit... guess who gets the seat?

Fair? I guess that depends on your perspective.


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## BBCAT (Feb 2, 2010)

Those that bought the over booked should be warned "you might not get a seat". If no one volunteers you are out of luck, you take the offers or make other arrangements.


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## NaClH2O (May 25, 2004)

Billygoat said:


> Not sure why everyone seems to be blaming United on this one (not just here, it's all over the internet). They overbooked, yes, that's on them for sure. Nobody would volunteer to give up their seats (I wouldn't either), so they used whatever system they use to come up with who gets bumped.
> 
> They ask him to leave, he refuses. From there out, nothing to do with United. Same as calling the cops for somebody trespassing, then the cops show up and beat them up, then everyone blames the property owner for the cops' actions?
> 
> I CAN'T WAIT TO HEAR THE OTHER SIDE OF THIS.


I think the reason everyone is blaming United is because the passengers that were kicked off were so that their own employees could fly. If it were so that four people in the military could get home, I bet everyone would be angry with the guy that refused to give up his seat. In my opinion, if United has to get their employees somewhere, they should plan better. Get them seats before the flight is full. They shouldn't be kicking people off flights to accommodate their own. It seems like it was a last minute thing, too, which goes back to the better planning thing. Offer vouchers or some benefit for anyone that will take it, but just straight up kicking people off seems like a bad policy. If it ever happened to me, I'd comply, but I'd be pretty ticked off. I wouldn't fly with them again.

I don't blame the guy for standing up for himself. He did what he thought was right. He did get treated like someone refusing to comply, though, but when it seems someone is being wronged to start with, getting drug out forcibly appears to be going too far.


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## Africanut (Jan 15, 2008)

I am on either United (tomorrow -wonderful) or Southwest 5-6 times a month for a particular route. Sometimes Southwest doesn't fly it because of the day of the week or logistics and I would have to piece an itenarary together with manual recheck of my bags- etc. Southwest typically costs more and higher elapsed time between point A to B. BUT I will usually do that's instead of getting on a United plane. The little Embraer regional connects are always jacked up. The counter people could give a ........ - and I can tell you with fair consistency whether the cabin crew is "Continentals" or Chiraq based. If they are Chicago based then they could give a rats ....... also. In this day of age with computer technology being able to fire off and trim nano seconds off of an execution- then there is no sense in this bs. I know for whatever reason sometimes a crew somewhere "times out" and a replacement needs to be dead headed in- but the cost of business dictates that they raise the ante until somebody raises their hands. It is still far cheaper than the two alternatives- a stranded plane somewhere- or stock prices tumbling and litigation.
Herb Kelleher has taught one airline well- Munoz could serve himself well by going to a seer and having a talk with Ol Herb.


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## RRfisher (Mar 5, 2007)

Byrdmen said:


> It's really not united, looking at the picture looks like an Embraer 170, United owns no E170s, that is a whole different company flying under contract for United. Bet you thought when you called their 800 number and bought a ticket it was on a United flight!
> 
> Oh, and several airlines don't oversell. I'll let you look them up.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Ha. I just text my buddy who is a pilot for UA and he said "it's an Express flight, a different company, but I doubt the news will mention that".


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## Warlock1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Republic Airlines actually normally flies that flight number as a DBA United Express but SkyWest and Trans States also fly that route as well...No actual United Planes fly that route looking at there system...not that it makes a difference...Looks like they were putting a SkyWest crew in place for the morning flight CPT,FO and two flight Attendants...for what its worth...


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## TranTheMan (Aug 17, 2009)

The scene reminded of when Saddam's security guards and Kim Yong-un's police "randomly" pulled people out their party meetings.


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## K LoLo (Sep 5, 2012)

Ernest said:


> EZ PZ is that they don't have to offer you anything. They merely have to ask you to exit the aircraft.
> 
> EZ PZ is that you are to follow their instructions, or you face a potential civil fine if not a felony charge. Does he not speak English?
> 
> ...


I think even United admitted that they don't have a formal policy about asking a person to exit a an aircraft after they already boarded. That to me is the difference. Sure, they have ultimate authority over anyone who is on the plane, but they also have to answer for their actions. Just like, the guy had the human right to protest and had to face that. United will have to face any backlash afterwards.

Even if the guy doesn't win a law suit, United will spend far more than it would have cost to eventually get 4 people to raise their hands (probably were almost there anyway).

And for those who say it is a different company...United will still brand it like its their own. If I hire a contractor to do work for me, and they do something I wouldn't normally do, I'm still on the hook.


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## Drundel (Feb 6, 2006)

RRfisher said:


> Ha. I just text my buddy who is a pilot for UA and he said "it's an Express flight, a different company, but I doubt the news will mention that".


I just texted a buddy who is a pilot for express jet. I'll be curious what he says and I think a member on here is also a pilot for EJ.


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## Bustin Chops (Feb 3, 2008)

Ernest said:


> EZ PZ is that they don't have to offer you anything. They merely have to ask you to exit the aircraft.
> 
> EZ PZ is that you are to follow their instructions, or you face a potential civil fine if not a felony charge. Does he not speak English?
> 
> ...


 your'e not taking your medicine again


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## Sugar Land YAK (Jun 19, 2004)

Grumpy365 said:


> For $3,200.00 (the $800 a piece that was offered X 4 add in the hotel / meal vouchers PLUS the bad pub and ill will) it seems to me like they could have dang near chartered a plane for their employees. (probably not a jet, but a prop plane)


Probably will be $3.2 million now if not more, this was way mishandled by the airline.


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## ChuChu (Jan 23, 2010)

We can all sit back and say who is right and who is wrong, but the bottom line is ...what if it happens to you?


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## Sugar Land YAK (Jun 19, 2004)

RRfisher said:


> Ha. I just text my buddy who is a pilot for UA and he said "it's an Express flight, a different company, but I doubt the news will mention that".


Doesn't matter United book the flight & took his money...did you ask him what word is on the outside of the airplane?


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## RRfisher (Mar 5, 2007)

Sugar Land YAK said:


> Doesn't matter United book the flight & took his money...did you ask him what word is on the outside of the airplane?


United Express.


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## Ernest (May 21, 2004)

The whole idea that he has a great claim is just random speculation from a bunch of Facebookers overcome with the feelz. 

The formal policy goes like this - Obey the instructions of the flight crew. If you fail to do so or interfere with the actions of the flight crew, you are potentially up for a civil fine or a felony charge. 

No, boarding the aircraft is not like entering an embassy. Its not a safe harbor. Its not king's x. You are not safe on first base, and as long as you keep your foot on the bag, you can't be tagged out until the next play. 

Even after you board, have a drink, take off your shoes, and are enjoying the videos, they still can legally ask you to get off the plane. They can even open the cabin door after its been shut and ask you to leave. 

They ask people to get up, get their stuff, and get off all the time. Its not some special circumstances here. They have literally done the same thing on my last three flights. 

If you refuse, they will call security and drag you off the aircraft. As this douchebag learned just the other day. 

The aircraft - like the side of the highway - it NOT the time or place to argue your case. Like the side of the highway, you obey the lawful orders of the flight crew as you would a police officer. They are in charge, not you. They are calling the shots, not you. They decide who flies on that plane, not you. 

And, if you doubt their authority, they drag you off kicking and screaming. Like they did here. 

Why is it so hard for people to simply follow the rules? Don't like the rules, don't fly. Or, work to change those rules. What you don't do is inconvenience the rest of the passengers by refusing lawful orders of the flight crew and then crying like a little B. At least, that's not what responsible adults do.


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## Drundel (Feb 6, 2006)

Looks like he is going to play the race card too.

http://wqad.com/2017/04/10/the-latest-officer-who-dragged-man-off-united-jet-placed-on-leave/


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## RRfisher (Mar 5, 2007)

Ernest, that is all very true. What is also true is this guy is going to sue, UA is going to settle and this will all be forgotten when the next thing to talk about on the internet happens.

edit: also it was probably airport policy to yank him so UA and the government? will split the bill.


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## mas360 (Nov 21, 2006)

ChuChu said:


> We can all sit back and say who is right and who is wrong, but the bottom line is ...what if it happens to you?


Without a doubt ALL would say it is no one but UA fault and should be sued for 200 million dollar damage.


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## w_r_ranch (Jan 14, 2005)

Texas T said:


> I as an employee had to declare a "Must Ride" several times during my career.


Yep. As a civilian, the company I work for once told me I had to be in Port-of-Spain, Trinidad ASAP... I chartered a private jet & expensed it. They never did that again, LOL!!!



JED said:


> Another issue that hasn't been brought up with this incident is that United used LEO's to enforce the 'policy'. Since when do police enforce the private policy of businesses or any other civil matter?


That was my first thought as well.


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## RRfisher (Mar 5, 2007)

mas360 said:


> Without a doubt ALL would say it is no one but UA fault and should be sued for 200 million dollar damage.


Not Ernest or my pilot friend who thinks UA sues and the guy settles.


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## RRfisher (Mar 5, 2007)

w_r_ranch said:


> That was my first thought as well.


If it is airport "policy" then the federal government is enforcing federal law in this situation and not airline policy.


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## w_r_ranch (Jan 14, 2005)

RRfisher said:


> If it is airport "policy" then the federal government is enforcing federal law in this situation and not airline policy.


Care to cite the federal law pertaining to this circumstance (overbooking by private companies)??? Good luck with that, because it doesn't exist.


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## RRbohemian (Dec 20, 2009)

Ernest said:


> Why is it so hard for people to simply follow the rules?


Cuz our govt officials don't follow the rules, that's why.


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## 98aggie77566 (Jul 7, 2009)

Ernest said:


> The whole idea that he has a great claim is just random speculation from a bunch of Facebookers overcome with the feelz.
> 
> The formal policy goes like this - Obey the instructions of the flight crew. If you fail to do so or interfere with the actions of the flight crew, you are potentially up for a civil fine or a felony charge.
> 
> ...


Ok Counselor....I'll play.

When I purchase a ticket I enter into an agreement to their Contract of Carriage.

Show me specifically where each of the points in your posts above are covered in that contract.

Until then, I'll consider this your typical arrogant and condescending reply.

And if I'm wrong, I will gladly admit it.


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## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

poppadawg said:


> Very, very simple solution. Unitied should have kept jacking up the rewards till 4 people took them. EZ PZ


That is exactly what the national news just reported! They went on to say everyone has a price, that United obviously didn't offer enough to pull this off smoothly.


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## RRfisher (Mar 5, 2007)

w_r_ranch said:


> Care to cite the federal law pertaining to this circumstance (overbooking by private companies)??? Good luck with that, because it doesn't exist.


You quoted questioning why cops were used and I was stating if they (airline, leos) tell you to get off a plane by law you must comply no matter the reason.


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## had2reg (Aug 25, 2005)

Too Tall said:


> Another article I read said the passengers were bumped because United needed to get 4 employees to that destination.


 If the four employees forgot their luggage, would United forcefully strip passengers naked to provide clothing for their employees?


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## poppadawg (Aug 10, 2007)

Literally dragged a screaming 69 year old man off the plane. With video filming the entire incident. Lead story on all three networks. Can't imagine any blowback from that. Kiddos to them for watching the bottom line and saving hundreds of dollars by not offering more incentives to the plane full of passengers. A company like Unitied can't go around pizzing away hundreds of dollars. The only criticism I can find is the lack of efficiency of the removal staff. Had they used a tazer they could have removed the scoundrel with out the screaming and resistance -and assured prompt departure time. Remember, fly the friendly skies, fly Unitied!


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## ChuChu (Jan 23, 2010)

poppadawg said:


> Literally dragged a screaming 69 year old man off the plane. With video filming the entire incident. Lead story on all three networks. Can't imagine any blowback from that. Kiddos to them for watching the bottom line and saving hundreds of dollars by not offering more incentives to the plane full of passengers. A company like Unitied can't go around pizzing away hundreds of dollars. The only criticism I can find is the lack of efficiency of the removal staff. Had they used a tazer they could have removed the scoundrel with out the screaming and resistance -and assured prompt departure time. Remember, fly the friendly skies, fly Unitied!


They should have just shot him dead.


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## 98aggie77566 (Jul 7, 2009)

No worries gentlemen....2Cools own version of Jim Adler should chime in shortly and set us all straight.

I forget...is it the "Tough Smart Lawyer" or the "Texas Hammer" these days?


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## Ox Eye (Dec 17, 2007)

You people that back United on this incident are perfect candidates for the New World Order. This whole thing is purely about the superiority of profit over all else. United needed a flight crew to work a flight or the flight would not lift off. That would have cost United the profits of that as yet unmade flight. So, it was perfectly acceptable to inconvenience a few paying customers to prevent the loss. At no point did it seem to ever occur to United that the results of their greed would cost them even more.

The crew that was on this flight could have worked the other flight, too. Greed, again, for Union Dues, created rules that prevented that potential solution.


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## Sugar Land YAK (Jun 19, 2004)

Not sure about you guys, but when I pay for something I expect to be able to use it when I'm suppose to use it. United screw up & it's going to cost them millions.


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## Empty Pockets CC (Feb 18, 2009)

A few more thoughts:
1. If regular businesses treated their paying customers in this fashion, they'd be bankrupt. Not the airline unions though. Not the Airlines period. They have immunity for some reason. The deserve to be bankrupt...oh wait they've been there already several times. Who keeps bailing them out? Oh, we do as taxpayers. Trash... 
2. The correct way (or the way this businessman would have done it) is to keep upping the voucher dollar amount. At some point some people are going to give up their seats. It was United's screw up, plain and simple. If you don't want to deal with these kinds of situations then stop overselling flights. 

Personally I can't wait for people to start boycotting the Airlines and their ignorant unions again. I avoid them at all costs. I truly hate airports and airlines. There's hardly anything American about them including the TSA (thousands standing around), union flight attendants (that complimentary drink really costs you $20.00), and the anti American customer service. I have seen better customer service at a gumball machine in Wally World. Holier than thou union trash.


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## Gottagofishin (Dec 17, 2005)

I fly 2 to 6 times a week 40+ weeks a year. When I retire in a couple of years I might never get on another airplane again even though I have a lifetime supply of miles on 3 different airlines. 

All I have to say is a lot of you folks should avoid air travel at all costs. You couldn't handle it.

Read the fine print. All the airline has to do is get you to your destination... eventually. Depending on your class of ticket, they don't even have to refund your money. Just give you a credit for a future flight to be used within an specific period of time.

Caveat Emptor.


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## JED (Nov 14, 2004)

98aggie77566 said:


> No worries gentlemen....2Cools own version of Jim Adler should chime in shortly and set us all straight.
> 
> I forget...is it the "Tough Smart Lawyer" or the "Texas Hammer" these days?


I prefer the "Texas Law Hawk"!


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## Sugar Land YAK (Jun 19, 2004)

Empty Pockets CC said:


> A few more thoughts:
> 1. If regular businesses treated their paying customers in this fashion, they'd be bankrupt. Not the airline unions though. Not the Airlines period. They have immunity for some reason. The deserve to be bankrupt...oh wait they've been there already several times. Who keeps bailing them out? Oh, we do as taxpayers. Trash...
> 2. The correct way (or the way this businessman would have done it) is to keep upping the voucher dollar amount. At some point some people are going to give up their seats. It was United's screw up, plain and simple. If you don't want to deal with these kinds of situations then stop overselling flights.
> 
> Personally I can't wait for people to start boycotting the Airlines and their ignorant unions again. I avoid them at all costs. I truly hate airports and airlines. There's hardly anything American about them including the TSA (thousands standing around), union flight attendants (that complimentary drink really costs you $20.00), and the anti American customer service. I have seen better customer service at a gumball machine in Wally World. Holier than thou union trash.


Some people can't handle the truth, think you've covered it all..


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## DannyMac (May 22, 2004)

Just heard on O'Reilly, the airlines can offer up to $1300. for domestic flights and $5000. for international flights. It wouldn't take much for me to jump up and head to the door!


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## 98aggie77566 (Jul 7, 2009)

JED said:


> I prefer the "Texas Law Hawk"!


LMAO....I bet that is the spawn of our buddy Ernest


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## TatterTot (Jan 6, 2006)

Grumpy365 said:


> For $3,200.00 (the $800 a piece that was offered X 4 add in the hotel / meal vouchers PLUS the bad pub and ill will) it seems to me like they could have dang near chartered a plane for their employees. (probably not a jet, but a prop plane)


That's exactly what I thought. They are in the business I'm sure they know charters to contract. It's going to cost more than $3200 to settle this catastrophe. Stupid. Stupid.


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## boom! (Jul 10, 2004)

It's been a while since I have been on a plane that was not 100% full. They have the schedules figured out in the stockholder's favor. If you absolutely gotta be there, you better buy the more expensive tickets. On the other hand if you want free air travel and you schedule your flights during busy times, you can be the first to take the bump.


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## piratelight (May 2, 2008)

Some of the news is reporting this guy got back on the plane after he was removed the first time. Lol. I'm not at all condoning united at all, clearly both party's screwed up pretty badly. He also delayed everyone else on the flight 3 hours because he couldn't control hi emotions. Gottagofishing is right. Some of you shouldn't fly. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

I don't have any problems like this in First Class.


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## boom! (Jul 10, 2004)

Mont said:


> I don't have any problems like this in First Class.


I never see this stuff on the company plane either. :rotfl:


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## hph350 (Mar 20, 2017)

Let me say that I'm surprised by the number of people on this board siding for United on this. They sold this guy a ticket, put him on the plane and then changed their mind on a more valuable use for that ticket. That's not the customer's fault. Like others have pointed out, if they want to buy the seat back then they need to pay someone to get off. They could have done that!

United could also have driven their employees to the destination or even chartered a plane for them. All this proves that United has terrible customer service and zero regard for those of us that fly it.

People siding for United on this are either shills or need a head exam.


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## Gottagofishin (Dec 17, 2005)

hph350 said:


> Let me say that I'm surprised by the number of people on this board siding for United on this. They sold this guy a ticket, put him on the plane and then changed their mind on a more valuable use for that ticket. That's not the customer's fault. Like others have pointed out, if they want to buy the seat back then they need to pay someone to get off. They could have done that!
> 
> United could also have driven their employees to the destination or even chartered a plane for them. All this proves that United has terrible customer service and zero regard for those of us that fly it.
> 
> People siding for United on this are either shills or need a head exam.


So you are anti capitalist? Let's charge our shareholders $10k instead of inconveniencing 4 people with a combined $800 in tickets to make everyone happy.

If everyone had your attitude we would be Russia or Cuba or Venezuela.

Or just drive if you don't like the rules. That's the great thing about America. We have a choice.


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## boom! (Jul 10, 2004)

Gottagofishin said:


> So you are anti capitalist? Let's charge our shareholders $10k instead of inconveniencing 4 people with a combined $800 in tickets to make everyone happy.
> 
> If everyone had your attitude we would be Russia or Cuba or Venezuela.


UA will spend much more than 10K on this one. Stockholders should be pizzed.


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## Sugar Land YAK (Jun 19, 2004)

Gottagofishin said:


> So you are anti capitalist? Let's charge our shareholders $10k instead of inconveniencing 4 people with a combined $800 in tickets to make everyone happy.
> 
> If everyone had your attitude we would be Russia or Cuba or Venezuela.
> 
> Or just drive if you don't like the rules. That's the great thing about America. We have a choice.


hmmm, didn't take long for the 1st one pop up...just because they can do it doesn't mean they should...


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## stinkypete (Oct 2, 2015)

JED said:


> Another issue that hasn't been brought up with this incident is that United used LEO's to enforce the 'policy'. Since when do police enforce the private policy of businesses or any other civil matter?
> The passenger hadn't been disruptive in any way or broke any law, he only refused to give up his seat. They could have picked someone else without resorting to physical removal.


Yup United screwed the pooch and so did the officers. The LEO involved has been put on leave while the situation is investigated.
Two issues involved. The guy did not break any laws by refusing to give up his seat when he didnt do anything. His refusal concerns a contract between him and the airline which is a civil matter not criminal. So the cops should not have been called. Any laws that may be involved are federal, governed by the FAA not local, so the local LEOs have no jurisdiction or authority to enforce them. Had he been removed for breaking some law then the officers would have been right. I think the Dr has one hell of a lawsuit against both United and the officers. Not to mention all the bad press United is rightfully going to recieve. Id also bet theres going to be some unemployed gate agents and flight crew.


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## Gottagofishin (Dec 17, 2005)

boom! said:


> UA will spend much more than 10K on this one. Stockholders should be pizzed.


probably, but if they let it stand it will be squatters rights on every flight. Might as well just shut it down.

This **** happens every few years or so. Next week we'll be griping about something else.

It's just another version "No shoes, no shirt, no service". It's their capital. They get to make the rules. If they pizz too many people off, they lose value and shareholders pull out.

Let the market decide.


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## stinkypete (Oct 2, 2015)

Gottagofishin said:


> So you are anti capitalist? Let's charge our shareholders $10k instead of inconveniencing 4 people with a combined $800 in tickets to make everyone happy.
> 
> If everyone had your attitude we would be Russia or Cuba or Venezuela.
> 
> Or just drive if you don't like the rules. That's the great thing about America. We have a choice.


What dont you understand about contracts? Uniteds own policy covers bumping before boarding except in emergency situations not after. Their staffing issue hardly constitute anemergency by any standards. There are rules in place and in my opinion United broke them not the Dr.


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## Leo (May 21, 2004)

Investors didn't mind too much today but after further review, they may have changed their mind, a little


70.63 USD
Last | 6:48:30 PM EDT
-0.89 (-1.24%)
After Hours Change
49,363
Volume
Extended Hours
71.52 USD
Close |	4:00:00 PM EDT
0.64 (+0.9%)
Change
3,409,169
Volume
37.4176.80 
52 week range


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## Empty Pockets CC (Feb 18, 2009)

boom! said:


> UA will spend much more than 10K on this one. Stockholders should be pizzed.


United will spend hundreds of thousands on this one case and it will cost them a lot more in lost revenue. Example 1A: I just refunded my two tickets for two trips going to Mexico for this month and next both booked with United. Luckily I bought the insurance which I never do but did this time because of questionable weather circumstances. I'll fly with someone else. I don't like doing business with a company that treats their customers like this and doesn't apologize and make it right immediately. Maybe I'm the only one refunding my tickets, maybe I'm not (don't care). There are choices out there, I don't like any of them, but I dislike United for what they did to this paying customer (fine print or travelers rights or whatever hoopla regardless). 
People don't read the fine print...The people/customer just want service from the company they pay for a good or service. This recent transaction (lol) between United and their paying customer (regardless of why the computer picked him or how much he paid for the ticket) is nothing short of shameful and a disgrace to what we've allowed these "airlines" to get away with. 
If you overbook your airline you don't do these things:
1. Overbook your airline in the first place (greed). 
2. You pay for your mistake and get willing volunteers to get out of their seat because they (the customers) are being inconvenienced (remember the airline are the imbeciles that overbooked their own flight).

A reasonable jury and/or judge of our peers will hang this airline out to dry over this. Just watch. It doesn't matter what the fine print says. Nothing really matters except for the fact of what happened to this paying customer. Period. End of story. 
I can't believe there are fellow Texans on this board actually siding with the airline over this occurrence. I just can't fathom that. The airline was wrong and we'll all pay the price for it in one way or another.


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## Gottagofishin (Dec 17, 2005)

stinkypete said:


> What dont you understand about contracts? Uniteds own policy covers bumping before boarding except in emergency situations not after. Their staffing issue hardly constitute anemergency by any standards. There are rules in place and in my opinion United broke them not the Dr.


I do understand contracts. I'm not a JD, but I deal with them daily. I've read UAs Carriage contract. Have you?

I bet their OGC has better lawyers than you and I will ever be.


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## cman (Apr 17, 2009)

$3,200? $10,000? 

This thing has already cost United more than they earned on a full flight and it will continue to cost them well into the future. 
Ernest must not have ever run a business. 

The current costs involve a dozen or more attorneys and support staff, PR Department, HR Department, Marketing Department, Customer Service Department, Media liaisons, the flight crew, Operations Managers, their trainers, Company Principals, and probably well over 100 United employees or more directly involved in this fiasco as we speak. 

Can you imagine the amount of people in the email chains going around? All of that takes time and money. 
Just on what has been spent until now, they spent more than it would have cost to fly a plane full of people. 
It will continue to cost them money on investigations, retraining, legal, and PR. Long term, they'll settle with the passenger and probably give everyone on the flight some sort of concession. 
Even longer term, when they do settle, it will only inspire some other obstinate passenger to hold out and this thing will cost them for years. 

They should have taken the EZ PZ route Ernest and raised the reward until 4 people bit.


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## Drundel (Feb 6, 2006)

It was an e-170 operated by republic airlines.


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## Gottagofishin (Dec 17, 2005)

cman said:


> $3,200? $10,000?
> 
> This thing has already cost United more than they earned on a full flight and it will continue to cost them well into the future.
> Ernest must not have ever run a business.
> ...


Their legal budget is probably 200 to 300 million a year and they carry at least a half billion in contingency. Probably closer to a billion.

They pay off hundreds of bs claims a month. You guys really think this will hurt them?

I'll let you know if the two UA flights I have this week are only half full. I'll bet they have people on standby just like always.

I'm not a big UA fan or a fan of any airline for that matter. They are a necessary evil in my life and I will be glad to be rid of them. But this is a bunch of noise about a guy who got his panties in a wad because he didn't read the fine print.


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## Empty Pockets CC (Feb 18, 2009)

cman said:


> $3,200? $10,000?
> 
> This thing has already cost United more than they earned on a full flight and it will continue to cost them well into the future.
> 
> ...


This man gets it.


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## ccketchum (Oct 18, 2010)

airlines be like , hey , if you dont like it , move out the way , there are 100 people in line behind you .


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## w_r_ranch (Jan 14, 2005)

RRfisher said:


> You quoted questioning why cops were used and I was stating if they (airline, leos) tell you to get off a plane by law you must comply no matter the reason.


Federal Marshals yes. City cop or airline employee, no.

Now post the federal statue pertaining to this circumstance (overbooking by private companies).

The man entered into a contract with a company in good faith & that company took his money in consideration without delivering... That is a breech of contract, not a federal case.


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## bassguitarman (Nov 29, 2005)

When the suit happens UA will attempt to settle out of court - just as insurance companies try to settle - because the cost of defending the suit will be very high, not to mention the publicity damage control.

Not a newspaper that I read, but this article shows how the story is trending:

http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-united-video-20170410-story.html


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## Empty Pockets CC (Feb 18, 2009)

bassguitarman said:


> When the suit happens UA will attempt to settle out of court - just as insurance companies try to settle - because the cost of defending the suit will be very high, not to mention the publicity damage control.
> 
> Not a newspaper that I read, but this article shows how the story is trending:
> 
> http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-united-video-20170410-story.html


Oscar Munoz speaks like he has never flown a plane, served a "complimentary beverage", loaded bags, fueled a plane, or been a flight attendant. To me, he sounds like another overeducated moron that walks around in an ivory tower and has never once had to thank a customer for their business, show a new hire how to do their job, or make a payroll. 
If I were the top shareholders of United I'd make darn sure that my next CEO at least came from within the business and knew how to talk to customers. All he did with his ignorant and inflammatory statement was to fan the flames. 
Like the gentleman said above me, you can't take someone's money, enter into a contract, not deliver the service or good, and then forcibly remove the customer from the contract because you (the airline) made an ignorant mistake of overbooking. The burden to make it right falls on United.

On edit: After looking up this guy on LinkedIn my suspicions have been confirmed. He never had to scrub a toilet (metaphor or not..). Maybe he'll get to eat some humble pie when they can his sorry rear.


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## 98aggie77566 (Jul 7, 2009)

Gottagofishin said:


> I do understand contracts. I'm not a JD, but I deal with them daily. I've read UAs Carriage contract. Have you?
> 
> I bet their OGC has better lawyers than you and I will ever be.


I have read the CoC....can you specifically call out the section that gives United the upper hand and right to do what they did in this situation?

Ernest went silent...perhaps you can help him?

Net/Net...whether they had the contractual right or not, they went about the situation rather poorly. There were many alternatives available to serve the purpose they intended to achieve...but they chose a forceful route....stick rather than the carrot.


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## HoustonKid (Dec 29, 2005)

Right or wrong, UA will pay out of the nose for this one. The jury appeal on a civil trial for the plaintiff is off of the charts. Bumped for 4 employees then bloodied and dragged off of the plane. This guy will be given huge money to go away quickly. 
Not saying he was right to disobey what appeared to be a lawful order, but UA wants this to go away and go away fast because this kind of publicity will impact the bottom line in a huge negative way!


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## fishinguy (Aug 5, 2004)

The flight wasn't overbooked United wanted to move their employees. The crappy vouchers they offer anyway are worthless. I guess it is their plane but they wont find my butt in their seats anytime soon. Hopefully many others will think twice before booking untied if this is how they prefer to treat their customers.

They are completely in the wrong on this one. They should have upped their offer to find a volunteer or find another way to get their employees to louisville. Dragging a paying customer out of his paid for seat because he was randomly selected is ridiculous.


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## fishinguy (Aug 5, 2004)

Ernest said:


> The whole idea that he has a great claim is just random speculation from a bunch of Facebookers overcome with the feelz.


In my opinion they are mis applying the term over booked. While they do have legal right to overbook the plane this is not a case of overbooking the airline is trying tot pull a quick one on the actual law. The airline was moving employees, this is not the same as overbooking passengers, they are reducing the number of available seats after having sold said seats. I would consider this to be an abuse of the law and United could be culpable.

This was a stupid move by united and I hope it puts a mark in their bookings this year. Customers deserve more respect than this man was given.

I really think they should have a good look at the current regulations involving overbooking flights.


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## RedXCross (Aug 7, 2005)

Yep,
They Farked up, plain and simple.
And like Gottago said, they really and truly don't give two Sheets. This morning it is biz as usual



98aggie77566 said:


> I have read the CoC....can you specifically call out the section that gives United the upper hand and right to do what they did in this situation?
> 
> Ernest went silent...perhaps you can help him?
> 
> Net/Net...whether they had the contractual right or not, they went about the situation rather poorly. There were many alternatives available to serve the purpose they intended to achieve...but they chose a forceful route....stick rather than the carrot.


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## tstorm5 (Aug 27, 2009)

United Airlines Training Video.


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## DA REEL DADDY (Jun 7, 2005)

Man if I witnessed that, I would be embarrassed to take that man's seat. Total bologna.


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## ChuChu (Jan 23, 2010)

The series of events began after the plane was fully boarded and United gate agents were approached by airline crew members who said they needed to travel on that flight, Munoz said in the memo.


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## mrsh978 (Apr 24, 2006)

I USED to flight daily - used to. I witnessed various scenarios on overbooking( very commmon and calculated by airlines ) , most would offer token prizes to accommodate overselling. Took a few myself and even negotiated more from desk staff . Even watched "pros " who would sit in DFW all day with tickets and never get on a plane - they played the game given and racked up miles and tickets . Now , the United deal was absolutely not done right. No one should be bumped like that. More bait on the hook would have gotten the needed seats .


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## gigem87 (May 19, 2006)

I am curious about the algorithm used by their computer to select who got kicked off the plane. They said on the news this morning that they consider the impact on passengers with connecting flights. I'll guess that not too many people going from Chicago to Lousiville have further connecting flights. Louisville is the end of the line for most if not all of those passengers.

After that, do they consider things like:

Frequent flier status level?
Cost of the seat?
First class vs. coach?
Who is flying on reward miles and points?

I am guessing that all of this comes into play. I am further guessing that none of this is spelled out in any contract. Might be wrong, but if I was the plaintiff it would surely all come out in the trial.

I wonder if the other three passengers selected for ejection try to join in on the action, as the payday for the victim continues to grow.

Just another reason I am glad I am retired and don't have to hassle with flying anymore. Although I have taken bumps several times in the past. and in fact my son and my wife both went on ski trips this spring facilitated by basically free tickets they got from taking a bump on a flight home from Boston last summer.

I'd have taken the $800...


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## Sugar Land YAK (Jun 19, 2004)

Can't believe some people are saying that it's ok to beat a man over a airplane seat. 

In the mean time stock is down 6% overnight and the biggest growth market for United (China) is ******. 

Now congress is in on the act, the fat lady wouldn't be able to sing for a few more years..


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## gigem87 (May 19, 2006)

Sugar Land YAK said:


> Can't believe some people are saying that it's ok to beat a man over a airplane seat.


Agreed. I also find it interesting that none of those "horrified" other passengers on that flight offered to take the man's place and leave the plane. I guess it's better to be horrified than inconvenienced...


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## 98aggie77566 (Jul 7, 2009)

gigem87 said:


> Agreed. I also find it interesting that none of those "horrified" other passengers on that flight offered to take the man's place and leave the plane. I guess it's better to be horrified than inconvenienced...


Or they were laying low to avoid a good beating ? :work::work:


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## John Redcorn (Sep 8, 2009)

ChuChu said:


> We can all sit back and say who is right and who is wrong, but the bottom line is ...what if it happens to you?


It wouldn't happen to me. I would have been ****** as he11 but got off the plane. I would have asked for the max in reimbursement and some food / drink vouchers and find my way to the nearest bar to drown my sorrows.

Anyone who flies regularly knows getting bumped is always a possibility. The rules suck but if you don't like it, drive.

At the point the cops come to get you out, you are not going to win that argument at that point. Live to fight another day.


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## w_r_ranch (Jan 14, 2005)

Looks like the 'security detail' is going down (just like UAL's stock), as well they should.



> The Chicago Department of Aviation said Monday afternoon that it had placed the security officer who pulled the man out of his seat on leave pending a â€œthorough reviewâ€ of the situation.
> 
> The aviation department said in an emailed statement that the incident wasnâ€™t in accordance with its standard operating procedure and the officerâ€™s actions â€œare obviously not condoned by the Department.â€
> 
> The department confirmed that all three men who were seen on video talking to the man who was removed from the flight were aviation security officers.


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## 98aggie77566 (Jul 7, 2009)

w_r_ranch said:


> Looks like the 'security detail' is going down (just like UAL's stock), as well they should.


Aviation Security Officers? Is that like a Mall Cop?


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## ChuChu (Jan 23, 2010)

98aggie77566 said:


> Aviation Security Officers? Is that like a Mall Cop?


No, they are City of Chicago employees that have police duties. They are unarmed.


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## Empty Pockets CC (Feb 18, 2009)

98aggie77566 said:


> Aviation Security Officers? Is that like a Mall Cop?


More like security at Toys R Us.


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## ChuChu (Jan 23, 2010)

To the posters that said United should have up the ante till someone accepted it, Delta, during their canceled flights last weekend gave one woman $11,000 in vouchers due to her flights (several) being canceled.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/laurab...-to-fly-to-florida-this-weekend/#58fea744de16


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## boom! (Jul 10, 2004)

John Redcorn said:


> It wouldn't happen to me. I would have been ****** as he11 but got off the plane. I would have asked for the max in reimbursement and some food / drink vouchers and find my way to the nearest bar to drown my sorrows.
> 
> Anyone who flies regularly knows getting bumped is always a possibility. The rules suck but if you don't like it, drive.
> 
> At the point the cops come to get you out, you are not going to win that argument at that point. Live to fight another day.


Easy to say because the frequent traveler is never kicked off. Like raising taxes on the other guy, they need to just shut up and pay.


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## Ernest (May 21, 2004)

Look, the guy has the contractual expectation to be paid $675 or $1,350, maybe a couple bucks more, based upon his contract. A contract/regulatory framework that expressly permits airlines to bump passengers and overbook flights. 

But, once he is asked to leave - be it by a Fed., state police, security guard, or even the flight crew - its a different story. 

Just like my office lobby. Once I tell you to leave, you don't get to refuse, you don't get to demand money as a condition of leaving, and you don't get to clamp yourself in a chair and refuse to move. If you fail to follow my instructions, the police will come to my premises, place you under arrest, and drag you out of here. If you then come back to my premises, the police will remove you again. 

You have just committed a criminal trespass, and 99.999% of the time, you will not get paid chit for injuries you suffer during the arrest or by being drug off. The primary exception is where excessive force is used by a private security guard to remove you. 

Same with the airlines except they have even greater rights that I do in my own lobby. In addition to criminal liability, there are significant civil fines imposed upon travelers that interfere with flight crews or refuse the orders of a flight crew. 

No, the airline is not likely to spend big bucks on this. In virtually all of these cases, the traveler gladly signs a release (for free or for short dollars) in favor of the airlines to avoid the civil penalties. 

While all the facts are not in on this situation, if he re-entered the plane without authorization, he is very likely to be slapped with a huge civil fine. Bull rushing onto an aircraft, immediately after being forcibly removed from that same aircraft, is major league bad in the post-9/11 world.


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## MarkU (Jun 3, 2013)

Yep..


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## Warlock1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Its sort of interesting I am well aware of people who are bump prospectors...book flights likely to be oversold and sit near the gate agent hoping to be the first to cash in as they have flexible schedules...The Chicago Airport police are Police officers and attend the Chicago Academy but are not part of the city...also don't carry guns...I think statistically Southwest bumps more people than any other airline...DOT says that the bump rate last year was .62%. Oddly Southwest is at the top of the list followed closely by Delta and United...Industry change...unlikely we want cheap tickets but who knows...


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## Bozo (Jun 16, 2004)

Ernest said:


> Look, the guy has the contractual expectation to be paid $675 or $1,350, maybe a couple bucks more, based upon his contract. A contract/regulatory framework that expressly permits airlines to bump passengers and overbook flights.
> 
> But, once he is asked to leave - be it by a Fed., state police, security guard, or even the flight crew - its a different story.
> 
> ...


Apples and oranges. A fee/rent was paid for a space on the flight unlike the person in your lobby. So, since it is a denial of service then it becomes civil matter and not criminal tresspass. He has the contract to show he had bought the right to be there.

You are right that he should have left when told to and then settled the matter in court if he had too, but since a contract for service was involved and that was what was being denied, it may not be criminal tresspass.


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## cman (Apr 17, 2009)

> While all the facts are not in on this situation, if he re-entered the plane without authorization, he is very likely to be slapped with a huge civil fine. Bull rushing onto an aircraft, immediately after being forcibly removed from that same aircraft, is major league bad in the post-9/11 world.


He'll argue he was traumatized, and win the argument.



> No, the airline is not likely to spend big bucks on this.


You are utterly clueless. Quit while you are behind. They have already spent more than it would have cost to buy off all of the passengers on that flight.


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## Sugar Land YAK (Jun 19, 2004)

mrsh978 said:


> Even watched "pros " who would sit in DFW all day with tickets and never get on a plane - they played the game given and racked up miles and tickets .


Any tips for doing this thinking about retiring in a few years and I need something to do.

I tried goggling it but no results.


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## poppadawg (Aug 10, 2007)

Anybody willing to take 800 dollars to get off the plane? Anyone? No? Ok how about piles of money for life? Anyone? We have a taker! Grab him by the feet and drag his azzoff this plane


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## RRfisher (Mar 5, 2007)

Warlock1 said:


> Its sort of interesting I am well aware of people who are bump prospectors...book flights likely to be oversold and sit near the gate agent hoping to be the first to cash in as they have flexible schedules...The Chicago Airport police are Police officers and attend the Chicago Academy but are not part of the city...also don't carry guns...I think statistically Southwest bumps more people than any other airline...DOT says that the bump rate last year was .62%. Oddly Southwest is at the top of the list followed closely by Delta and United...Industry change...unlikely we want cheap tickets but who knows...


.


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## Ernest (May 21, 2004)

No. Travel on an airlines is not renting an apartment. It does not establish a tenancy. Not even close. The traveler has zero property rights with respect to the seat. 

There is a huge difference in the law applicable to real estate/real property like a house or apartment, and laws pertaining to personal property and movable things. This is clearly and unambiguously a contract of carriage, not a rental/tenancy/lease. 

Further, the existence of a contract does not preclude a criminal trespass charge. 

Just think it thru. If all it took was a fee, then you could never get the bums/homeless out of a coffee shop. They would buy one cup and camp out on the premises claiming "tenancy."

Other than GottaGo, who else has read the contract? I'm guessing, none of you all.


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## fishinguy (Aug 5, 2004)

Ernest said:


> Look, the guy has the contractual expectation to be paid $675 or $1,350, maybe a couple bucks more, based upon his contract. A contract/regulatory framework that expressly permits airlines to bump passengers and overbook flights.
> 
> But, once he is asked to leave - be it by a Fed., state police, security guard, or even the flight crew - its a different story.
> 
> ...


Lets change the scenario, lets say you paid your rent for the office space and you have clients in the lobby. Then your landlord shows up without notice and tells you to get the f out because he wants to put his guys in that office. You say no, he punches you in the faces and throws you out the front door of your office. Do you have a legal right to stay in the office, is the landlord allowed to assault you?


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## old 37 (Nov 30, 2014)

Ernest said:


> No. Travel on an airlines is not renting an apartment. It does not establish a tenancy. Not even close. The traveler has zero property rights with respect to the seat.
> 
> There is a huge difference in the law applicable to real estate/real property like a house or apartment, and laws pertaining to personal property and movable things. This is clearly and unambiguously a contract of carriage, not a rental/tenancy/lease.
> 
> ...


When I bought the ticket, I had to pay then and now, so if they want to kick me off they BETTER **** WELL HAVE MONEY THEN AND THERE!!!


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## fishinguy (Aug 5, 2004)

Looks like the share holders are thrilled with this incident and the CEO's response. 

That's alot more than a couple extra thousand to move 4 employees by other mean. Investor sentiment is worth alot more than 4 seats on a flight to Louisville.


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## Ernest (May 21, 2004)

This is not a tenancy. Stop trying to use the laws applicable to tenancies in this instance. Its retarded. 

As you will note, the example I provided there was no tenancy for the person being ordered off the premises. There is a reason for that. Its a real simple one. The law applicable to tenancies has no application here. Because this is not a tenancy. 

Its a contract of carriage. A form of contract that has existed since man invented boats. Its in writing. And, the writing does not create a tenancy.


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## troutslayer (Feb 7, 2006)

United Airlines
You carry on......
We carry off....


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## fishinguy (Aug 5, 2004)

Ernest said:


> This is not a tenancy. Stop trying to use the laws applicable to tenancies in this instance. Its retarded.
> 
> As you will note, the example I provided there was no tenancy for the person being ordered off the premises. There is a reason for that. Its a real simple one. The law applicable to tenancies has no application here. Because this is not a tenancy.
> 
> Its a contract of carriage. A form of contract that has existed since man invented boats. Its in writing. And, the writing does not create a tenancy.


Applying the law of people loitering in your lobby is also inapplicable (retarded) 
unless you are selling tickets to stand in your lobby.


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## ChuChu (Jan 23, 2010)

Chicago Police news affairs officer â€” not the aviation cops â€” initially released a statement to an unnamed media outlet saying that a â€œ69-year-old male Asian airline passengerâ€ became â€œirateâ€ aboard the flight and that aviation officers â€œattempted to carry the individual off the flight when he fell.â€

As the Chicago Police statement began circulating on Twitter â€” with people taking exception to the characterization that the man â€œfellâ€ â€” police said that any further information should come through the Department of Aviation.


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## Blk Jck 224 (Oct 16, 2009)




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## 98aggie77566 (Jul 7, 2009)

Ernest said:


> No. Travel on an airlines is not renting an apartment. It does not establish a tenancy. Not even close. The traveler has zero property rights with respect to the seat.
> 
> There is a huge difference in the law applicable to real estate/real property like a house or apartment, and laws pertaining to personal property and movable things. This is clearly and unambiguously a contract of carriage, not a rental/tenancy/lease.
> 
> ...


I read it...though I noticed you avoided my request to specifically call out where your original points are covered in the contract of carriage.

No surprise there....

"If the facts are against you, argue the law. If the law is against you, argue the facts. If the law and the facts are against you, pound the table and yell like hell"....or in your case resort to arrogant and condescending replies.

Apparently this contract of carriage relinquishes me of almost every right known to mankind.


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## Ernest (May 21, 2004)

Who said the original points I made were covered in the contract of carriage? That's the assumption you made. 

Others are claiming a right to remain on the aircraft, notwithstanding the contract. Thus, the burden is upon them to show where the contract of carriage allows them those rights. 

My points - if you are ordered off my property - be it a car, house, office or plane - you have to leave, come directly from Texas law relating to criminal trespass. Section 30.05 of the Texas Penal Code. It specifically includes aircraft, cars, building and houses. The law in Illinois goes even further. 

So, the burden is upon others to come forward with a specific provision of the contract which says otherwise. I'll wait.


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## BBCAT (Feb 2, 2010)

Contract or not, right or wrong. This will end up costing UA a lot more than it should have. All they had to do was up the offers or make other arrangements for their employees.


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## troutslayer (Feb 7, 2006)

LMAO


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## poppadawg (Aug 10, 2007)

Lost 700 million in market value. 
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/united-airlines-shares-tumbling-140648573.html

No matter what the contract says, doesn't say. Just because you CAN do something, doesn't make it a good F'n idea.


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## RRfisher (Mar 5, 2007)

poppadawg said:


> Lost 700 million in market value.
> http://finance.yahoo.com/news/united-airlines-shares-tumbling-140648573.html
> 
> No matter what the contract says, doesn't say. Just because you CAN do something, doesn't make it a good F'n idea.


$900mm in market cap so far today.


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## gigem87 (May 19, 2006)

CEO has 207,772 shares of UAL stock, per Yahoo Finance.

The value of his personal holdings is down about $642,000 today.


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## fishinguy (Aug 5, 2004)

Ernest said:


> Who said the original points I made were covered in the contract of carriage? That's the assumption you made.
> 
> Others are claiming a right to remain on the aircraft, notwithstanding the contract. Thus, the burden is upon them to show where the contract of carriage allows them those rights.
> 
> ...


Applying Texas law to this incident is kind of retarded don't you think?

Selling tickets complicates the criminal trespass angle. I am not saying they couldn't remove him from their plane. I am stating that he has a valid civil complaint with damages against United airlines.


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## MarkU (Jun 3, 2013)

There's this...

http://www.tmz.com/2017/04/11/united-airlines-doctor-convicted-drugs-sex/


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## RRfisher (Mar 5, 2007)

gigem87 said:


> CEO has 207,772 shares of UAL stock, per Yahoo Finance.
> 
> The value of his personal holdings is down about $642,000 today.


He'll make that back. Also if you want to get 5% back on your money pretty quickly I'd be looking at UAL.


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## Blk Jck 224 (Oct 16, 2009)

Really gonna cost them $ down the road...

'BuzzFeed News reported overnight that millions of people in China, the worldâ€™s fastest-growing air travel market, called for a boycott of the airline. The man dragged off the United flight was Asian-American'


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## Grumpy365 (Oct 21, 2010)

John Redcorn said:


> It wouldn't happen to me. I would have been ****** as he11 but got off the plane. I would have asked for the max in reimbursement and some food / drink vouchers and find my way to the nearest bar to drown my sorrows.
> 
> Anyone who flies regularly knows getting bumped is always a possibility. The rules suck but if you don't like it, drive.
> 
> At the point the cops come to get you out, you are not going to win that argument at that point. Live to fight another day.


What if you were on your way home to your kids funeral? Or your kids birth? Or to be with your dying mother on her death bed? Or your wife was finally ready to put out?

sometimes driving is not an option.

(not intending to be derogatory about your wife, but you get the picture)


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## Sugar Land YAK (Jun 19, 2004)

Ernest said:


> No. Travel on an airlines is not renting an apartment. It does not establish a tenancy. Not even close. The traveler has zero property rights with respect to the seat.
> 
> There is a huge difference in the law applicable to real estate/real property like a house or apartment, and laws pertaining to personal property and movable things. This is clearly and unambiguously a contract of carriage, not a rental/tenancy/lease.
> 
> ...


Contract or no contract, it's not ok force a 69 year old man out the airplane and cause harm to him. Also there was no overbooking, United is going to pay no matter what's written in the contract.


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## 98aggie77566 (Jul 7, 2009)

Ernest said:


> Who said the original points I made were covered in the contract of carriage? That's the assumption you made.
> 
> Others are claiming a right to remain on the aircraft, notwithstanding the contract. Thus, the burden is upon them to show where the contract of carriage allows them those rights.
> 
> ...


OK...so tell me....are they or are they not covered in the contract?

If so....point them out specifically.

If not....then point to the appropriate law/statute that supports your argument.

Apart from that....you don't know any more than the rest of us arm chair quarterbacks....and are just blowing a bunch of sanctimonious smoke.


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## fishingcacher (Mar 29, 2008)

It has already cost them 900 million in the drop of the stock price today along. Could have paid for the 4 united people to fly on another airline or private charter. Thank you for playing United.


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## Grumpy365 (Oct 21, 2010)

fishingcacher said:


> It has already cost them 700 million in the drop of the stock price today along. Could have paid for the 4 united people to fly on another airline or private charter. Thank you for playing United.


but,,but, but, but....... it was in the contract.

I said it on post 22. This is a case of someone making decisions at a level they were not qualified to make.


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## Cut n Shoot (Dec 11, 2015)

The captain's word is final..He can order everyone off the plane..United will pay for his injuries...


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## RedXCross (Aug 7, 2005)

United Airlines loses $900 million in market value as shares tumble

Boom daddy


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## fishingcacher (Mar 29, 2008)

I really detest United but often it is the only reasonable choice.

He recently was award communicator of the year.

http://qz.com/955426/united-airline...hrown-off-a-flight/?utm_source=YPL&yptr=yahoo

The board needs to re-accommodate the CEO with the boot.


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## Reel_Blessed II (Jun 24, 2004)

Southwest Airlines: "We beat the competition....not you"

"You are now free to be dragged around the cabin"

"Offering Red-Eye flights and Black-Eye flights too"


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## Grumpy365 (Oct 21, 2010)

Ernest said:


> Who said the original points I made were covered in the contract of carriage? That's the assumption you made.
> 
> Others are claiming a right to remain on the aircraft, notwithstanding the contract. Thus, the burden is upon them to show where the contract of carriage allows them those rights.
> 
> ...


It's my understanding a commercial airliner isn't private property.

It's commercial property subject to federal jurisdiction.

If you are trying to be all technical and legal and shat.


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## jackcu (Dec 28, 2004)

United sucks period.worst thing for ,continental employees and public was that merger


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## piratelight (May 2, 2008)

The good ole doctor is a real stand up guy.

http://www.tmz.com/2017/04/11/united-airlines-doctor-convicted-drugs-sex/

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Drundel (Feb 6, 2006)

piratelight said:


> The good ole doctor is a real stand up guy.
> 
> http://www.tmz.com/2017/04/11/united-airlines-doctor-convicted-drugs-sex/
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Beat me to it.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...drugs-secret-gay-sex.html?ito=social-facebook


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## THA (Jan 5, 2016)

Sometimes things get out of hand. The way I understand it is United was not responsible for the treatment of the man. Yes, he was ask to leave and refused and even resisted. United called for airport security, who are not United employees, and they are the ones who mistreated the passenger. United not responsible for that. The airport security guy overstepped his actions and is now on suspension pending a decision and it has been admitted that he handled the passenger wrong.

All that being said, this is not to take away the procedures dispute going on that United uses to determine how to decide who must go. That was wrong on United part, but they did not themselves injure him or have any part of it but their decision to have him removed should not be dismissed. The airport security person has the authority of police and should have been obeyed, not resisted. 

If he really was a doctor, he should have been exempted from being required to leave since patients do need his services. Unless maybe he was due to give some rich lady a facelift the next morning. What is more important, possibly a sick patient needing his help the next day or getting another flight off the ground the next day. Again, a matter of priority. I am sure someone else on the flight may have had less important business the next day. Another problem would have been separating a family with kids. I would not want to be told I must be bumped from the flight if I was traveling with other family members including kids and being separated from them.

United needs to reanalyze their procedures on passenger bumping priority.


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## 98aggie77566 (Jul 7, 2009)

^^I agree with you...but the real problem is: United did a pizz poor job of planning for the seats required for the 4 crew members.

Clearly they knew these 4 members were needed in Louisville for another flight

They didn't plan for it...sold seats...and even boarded the dadgum plane.

At a minimum they should have saved the 4 seats and bumped folks off prior to boarding

Or charge a few extra %, and save a few % of seats for these types of situations.

It's greed at the expense of customer service...and it bit them in the arse.


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## 6.5 shooter dude (Jan 8, 2008)

RedXCross said:


> United Airlines loses $900 million in market value as shares tumble
> 
> Boom daddy


Time to buy.


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## ChuChu (Jan 23, 2010)

piratelight said:


> The good ole doctor is a real stand up guy.
> 
> http://www.tmz.com/2017/04/11/united-airlines-doctor-convicted-drugs-sex/
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What does that matter?


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## cman (Apr 17, 2009)

> What does that matter?


Also, during his suspension, he won over 1/4 million in the world series of poker. What it tells me is he will pursue a claim against UAL and the police that roughed him up.


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## piratelight (May 2, 2008)

He's a convicted felon drug dealer, and a borderline sex offender, while barely being a doctor at all. All of which is worse than being an just an entitled crybaby like I thought he was. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Grumpy365 (Oct 21, 2010)

Drundel said:


> Beat me to it.
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...drugs-secret-gay-sex.html?ito=social-facebook


I could care less about what he did somewhere else. It has NO bearing on this.


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## mas360 (Nov 21, 2006)

United could simply up the deal to $1,500 to buy back the seat. I am sure someone would gladly sell their seat and no violence/physical assault would have taken place. 
This incident shows the thug mentality has migrated into the board room. Munoz, the United Airline CEO, while publicly apologized for the incident in private he praised his staff's behavior and gave them a pat on their backs. That is the big question of integrity on United and Munoz.


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## tstorm5 (Aug 27, 2009)

In less than a week this will all but be forgotten and some other tragedy will be the cause of the new outrage.


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## mas360 (Nov 21, 2006)

piratelight said:


> The good ole doctor is a real stand up guy.
> 
> http://www.tmz.com/2017/04/11/united-airlines-doctor-convicted-drugs-sex/
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That is a separate matter between him, the law and the alleged victim. It is unrelated to the physical assault conducted by United Airline.


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## piratelight (May 2, 2008)

Nobody assaulted that guy, he chose for that to happen. how many times do you think they told him what was gonna happen?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## boom! (Jul 10, 2004)

piratelight said:


> Nobody assaulted that guy, he chose for that to happen. how many times do you think they told him what was gonna happen?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


So if I tell you to shut up or I'll beat your arse and you don't shut up and I beat your arse, it's your fault? I like the way you think!


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## Blk Jck 224 (Oct 16, 2009)

boom! said:


> So if I tell you to shut up or I'll beat your arse and you don't shut up and I beat your arse, it's your fault? I like the way you think!


 .

LOL :bounce:


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## piratelight (May 2, 2008)

Lol. I think you need a better analogy. But if flight crew or a cop or an air marshal tells me to shut up I'm going to. United airlines didn't kick the guys *** local and federal authorities did. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## cman (Apr 17, 2009)

> Lol. I think you need a better analogy. But if flight crew or a cop or an air marshal tells me to shut up I'm going to. United airlines didn't kick the guys *** local and federal authorities did.


I think the guy was partly wrong. But that doesn't mean he isn't going to receive serious money for the incident. He'll get paid a ton of money and this will cost the airlines and the law enforcement agency a ton of money.


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## TranTheMan (Aug 17, 2009)

piratelight said:


> Lol. United airlines didn't kick the guys *** local and federal authorities did.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


So the local and federal just happened to be there?


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## piratelight (May 2, 2008)

Yes it was an airport there's typically cops of all types at the airport. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Blk Jck 224 (Oct 16, 2009)

piratelight said:


> United airlines didn't kick the guys *** local and federal authorities did


I bet $ they are wishing that they would have used gloves after finding out they were handling a bleeding, closet pole smoker, heroin addict.


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## BBCAT (Feb 2, 2010)

^^ Finally a cop when you need one. ^^


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## piratelight (May 2, 2008)

Guess calling the bluff didn't work out so well for him this time. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## piratelight (May 2, 2008)

Being a pro poker player maybe you did it on purpose just gambling for the hope of big pay off


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## sotexhookset (Jun 4, 2011)




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## piratelight (May 2, 2008)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## the toninator (Jan 19, 2016)

Still wrong...


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## Warlock1 (Jun 17, 2016)

His history as a felon seems to confirm his erratic behavior...pulling a three stooges maneuver with three cops is really a problem and this by all accounts would not be a stupid man...try that at any airport you will find yourself face down in cuffs...pulling the race card with a black gate agent also as stupid as it gets as well...


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## bassguitarman (Nov 29, 2005)

This is pretty funny, fast forward to 4:10 for Kimmel's new UA commercial:


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## sotexhookset (Jun 4, 2011)




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## mrsh978 (Apr 24, 2006)

*Trip*



Sugar Land YAK said:


> Any tips for doing this thinking about retiring in a few years and I need something to do.
> 
> Book " unrestricted " ticket ( anytime ). Pick historical busiest time ( most congested) time to fly - Monday and Friday's , holiday (s) - to very traveled destinations- Dfw to vegas , Houston to Los Angeles. Ask desk personnel how overbooked each leg is. Sit and wait for opportunities to be offered. Spoke with a retired couple who did this as a adventure as they traveled


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## mrsh978 (Apr 24, 2006)

Also peak time slots - 8-10am, 3-5 pm


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## ChuChu (Jan 23, 2010)

My BIL used to wait for offers on return trip from Vegas. He would always book mid morning to mid afternoon and sit and wait. Numerous times he managed to get $500 and seat on next plane which usually only an hour later. Sometimes he would get paid for three flights in a day.


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## bassguitarman (Nov 29, 2005)

This is funny even though Southwest is one of the worst overbookers:


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## boom! (Jul 10, 2004)

.


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## fishinguy (Aug 5, 2004)

Well airline butt kissers looks like United missed the mark on the government guidelines.



> DOT requires each airline to give all passengers who are bumped involuntarily a written statement describing their rights and explaining how the carrier decides who gets on an oversold flight and who doesn't.


https://www.transportation.gov/airconsumer/fly-rights#Overbooking

I didn't see the good doctor holding any paperwork when they "re-accommodated" him. Given his history I would expect him to be looking for maximum compensation.

I expecting him to reach a nice settlement to never be heard from again.

Ernest you still going to stick with


> The whole idea that he has a great claim is just random speculation from a bunch of Facebookers overcome with the feelz.


 or do you think he might just have a great claim?


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## RedXCross (Aug 7, 2005)

I totally agree.



6.5 shooter dude said:


> Time to buy.


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## wbs4010 (Nov 21, 2016)

piratelight said:


> I fly 2 - 4 flights a week. Almost exclusively united. I fly them because iah is a hub and any other airline I'll have to make connections every trip. I really haven't noticed any sort of difference in any of the airlines service. They all over book and all have money as their top priority, as does any business. All that said dude should have got up and left when asked. I would have been really ****** off if I was waiting to get home to my family and this jerk was holding the whole plane up. **** happens suck it up and take the vouchers or miles. Don't drag everyone on the plane down with you.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Nicely said but you didn't have to give up your seat The man didn't want to give up his seat. Offer more money. Everyone has a price and everyone has a reason.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## piratelight (May 2, 2008)

wbs4010 said:


> Nicely said but you didn't have to give up your seat The man didn't want to give up his seat. Offer more money. Everyone has a price and everyone has a reason.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Had I been asked I can assure you I would have exited a little more gracefully.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ernest (May 21, 2004)

The airlines are not required to give you the written disclosure until you are bumped. That means, at the counter in the airport. Not on the plane. Not instantaneously. Promptly after you are bumped. 

Even if they failed to do so, that's not king's x. You still don't get to refuse the orders of the flight crew or the local police. 

You don't see him holding paperwork? So what? The video only captures part of what occurred on the aircraft. It does not include what happened after that at the counter or at the security desk. United is holding that video for now. We will see it when it helps United. 

I have yet to see any facts suggesting this is a great claim. Then again, what do I know?


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## Sugar Land YAK (Jun 19, 2004)

Ernest said:


> The airlines are not required to give you the written disclosure until you are bumped. That means, at the counter in the airport. Not on the plane. Not instantaneously. Promptly after you are bumped.
> 
> Even if they failed to do so, that's not king's x. You still don't get to refuse the orders of the flight crew or the local police.
> 
> ...


The fall out continues for another day. Now its report that after the beating roughly 10 passengers left the plane after witnessing such child hood behavior. I can imagine more law suits now.

"Powell said he and other passengers were in shock, but the worst part, for him, came when the man returned to the plane and was cornered near the bathroom in the back â€" closer to Powell's students.
"I'm thinking to myself, 'Nothing good is coming of this,' " Powell said. "... I removed my kids from the plane, saying we don't need to see this stuff. We got up and left."
The group was quickly followed by a father and his 8-year-old daughter, who was crying along with one of Powell's students, he said.

"This did not need to happen," Powell said. "This is not what adults do, it's not what we're trying to teach our kids to do. Use your words, is what your elementary school teacher would tell you.

*"This is not how our country is supposed to be operating. People in authority positions do not need to be operating like this."*


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## cman (Apr 17, 2009)

> The airlines are not required to give you the written disclosure until you are bumped. That means, at the counter in the airport. Not on the plane. Not instantaneously. Promptly after you are bumped.
> 
> Even if they failed to do so, that's not king's x. You still don't get to refuse the orders of the flight crew or the local police.
> 
> ...


It will be a claim so that they make this thing go away as soon as possible. 
UAL is a business. Why argue what they are _required _to do? 
Their goal is to make money and they are losing boatloads on this every hour.


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## TranTheMan (Aug 17, 2009)

Apparently that man was traveling with his wife -- the video showed a woman following him while he was dragged out. If that is correct, does it make sense to split of the family, travel companions like that? The so-called random selection algorithm needs to be reworked.


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## boom! (Jul 10, 2004)

Ernest said:


> The airlines are not required to give you the written disclosure until you are bumped. That means, at the counter in the airport. Not on the plane. Not instantaneously. Promptly after you are bumped.
> 
> Even if they failed to do so, that's not king's x. You still don't get to refuse the orders of the flight crew or the local police.
> 
> ...


Buckley rule?


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## cman (Apr 17, 2009)

Watch Emerates commercial released today. Midway down page. This is real. Talk about a burn.



> http://www.businessinsider.com/emirates-united-airlines-ceo-feud-2017-4


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## BBCAT (Feb 2, 2010)

I have yet to see any facts suggesting this is a great claim. Then again, what do I know?

If I was a betting man, I'd say he has a great claim. Common sense tells me that.


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## ChuChu (Jan 23, 2010)

Just saw where Trump will not ask for an investigation of the United bumping incident, says it may be a criminal investigation by law enforcement.


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## I Fall In (Sep 18, 2011)

bassguitarman said:


> this is funny even though southwest is one of the worst overbookers:


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## Africanut (Jan 15, 2008)

Well, I was supposed to be on my way back to Idaho-somewhere over about Amarillo- BUT. It was a United - and they of course where running over two hr delay. And I already missed my flight out of IAH before I ever got to Harlingen.
The last 5-6 times they have been at least two hrs behind and have missed connects on four of them. They always blame it on weather related so no compensation or hotels forthcoming. They will try to fulfill their contract of carriage again tomorrow. 
Thanks United. And .... ...... ......


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## ChuChu (Jan 23, 2010)

CHICAGO (AP) -- After people were horrified by video of a passenger getting dragged off a full United Express flight by airport police, the head of United's parent company said the airline was reaching out to the man to "resolve this situation."

Hours later on Monday, his tone turned defensive. He described the man as "disruptive and belligerent."

By Tuesday afternoon, almost two days after the Sunday evening confrontation in Chicago, CEO Oscar Munoz issued his most contrite apology yet as details emerged about the man seen on cellphone videos recorded by other passengers at O'Hare Airport.

"No one should ever be mistreated this way," Munoz said.

The passenger was identified as physician David Dao, 69, of Elizabethtown, Kentucky, who was convicted more than a decade ago of felony charges involving his prescribing of drugs and spent years trying to regain his medical license.

But while Dao's history quickly became a focus of attention, there's no indication that his past influenced how he was treated or that the airline or police were aware of his background or would have known anything about him other than basic information such as his name and address, if that.

Screaming can be heard on the videos, but nowhere is Dao seen attacking the officers. In fact, he appears relatively passive both when he was dragged down the aisle of the jet and when he is seen standing in the aisle later saying quietly, "I want to go home, I want to go home."

Munoz's latest statement described the removal as "truly horrific." He said the company would review policies for seeking volunteers to give up their seats, for handling oversold situations and for partnering with airport authorities and local law enforcement.

An attorney who represents Dao said his client was being treated at a Chicago hospital for injuries he sustained on the plane and that the family would not comment.

According to records from the Kentucky Board of Medical Licensure, Dao went to medical school at the University of Medicine of Ho Chi Minh City in Vietnam, graduating in 1974. He was licensed in Kentucky with a specialty in pulmonary disease.

His legal troubles started in 2003, when his medical license was suspended after an undercover sting operation at a Louisville motel for allegedly writing fraudulent prescriptions.

According to the documents, the licensing board had learned that Dao had become sexually interested in a patient and hired the patient as his office manager. That man later said he quit his job because Dao "pursued him aggressively" and arranged to provide him with prescription drugs in exchange for sex.

Dao was ultimately convicted in late 2004 of several counts of obtaining drugs by fraud or deceit and was placed on five years of supervised probation and surrendered his medical license.

His longtime effort to get his license back finally succeeded in 2015, when the licensing board allowed him to practice medicine again.

About a year after his medical license was suspended, Dao joined the professional poker circuit, according to his World Series of Poker profile . His biggest competitive win came in 2009 when he took home more than $117,000 from a tournament in Mississippi.

Airport officials have said little about Sunday's events and nothing about Dao's behavior before he was pulled from the jet that was bound for Louisville, Kentucky. Likewise, the Chicago Aviation Department has said only that one of its employees who removed Dao did not follow proper procedures and has been placed on leave.

No passengers on the plane have mentioned that Dao did anything but refuse to leave the plane when he was ordered to do so.

Also Tuesday, Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel called the way Dao was treated "completely unacceptable" and praised Aviation Commissioner Ginger Evans for taking "swift action." He promised that a city investigation would "ensure nothing like this ever happens again."

The event stemmed from a common air travel issue â€" a full flight. United was trying to make room for four employees of a partner airline, meaning four people had to get off.

At first, the airline asked for volunteers, offering $400 and then when that did not work, $800 per passenger to relinquish a seat. When no one voluntarily came forward, United selected four passengers at random.

Three people got off the flight, but the fourth said he was a doctor and needed to get home to treat patients on Monday. He refused to leave.

Three Aviation Department police officers got on the plane. Two officers tried to reason with the man before a third came aboard and pointed at the man "basically saying, 'Sir, you have to get off the plane,'" said Tyler Bridges, a passenger whose wife, Audra D. Bridges, posted a video on Facebook.

One of the officers could be seen grabbing the screaming man from his window seat, across the armrest and dragging him down the aisle by his arms.

Other passengers on Flight 3411 are heard saying, "Please, my God," ''What are you doing?" ''This is wrong," ''Look at what you did to him" and "Busted his lip."

The U.S. Department of Transportation announced Tuesday that it is reviewing Sunday's events to see if United violated rules on overselling flights.

Dao's relatives are focused only on his medical care, attorney Stephen L. Golan said. The family "wants the world to know that they are very appreciative of the outpouring of prayers, concern and support they have received."

___


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## Empty Pockets CC (Feb 18, 2009)

Ernest, you'll be eating your words soon pal.


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## HoustonKid (Dec 29, 2005)

I said it 11 pages ago and I will say it again. Right or wrong, the dude is going to get paid and United cannot get this to go away fast enough. Now if DOT decides they were not following the overbooking rules, look out. His payout will pale in comparison to the fine the G will levy to set an example. He should have gotten off of the plane, I am not supporting his actions, but in the poll of public opinion, United is toast and it will have a negative impact on the their bottom line which is what matters to the shareholders. Just look at their stock price today.


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## bassguitarman (Nov 29, 2005)

ChuChu said:


> CHICAGO (AP) --
> By Tuesday afternoon, almost two days after the Sunday evening confrontation in Chicago, CEO Oscar Munoz issued his most contrite apology yet as details emerged about the man seen on cellphone videos recorded by other passengers at O'Hare Airport.
> 
> "No one should ever be mistreated this way," Munoz said.
> ___


A situation that could have been resolved by a few thousand dollars may cost this guy his job before this is over.


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## HoustonKid (Dec 29, 2005)

bassguitarman said:


> A situation that could have been resolved by a few thousand dollars may cost this guy his job before this is over.


I agree. If the negative publicity continues and the stock keeps going down, the shareholders will demand a scapegoat. Yes, I know the use of force is the issue and United had nothing to do with that except they ordered the removal. They will be on the hook in the public's eye. United will get with the City of Chicago and the "officer" who removed the man from the plane will be screwed, no doubt.
Munoz could very well be looking for a job in a month or so.


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## TranTheMan (Aug 17, 2009)

Earlier in the day, United Continental Holdings (UAL)' stock was off about 4%, knocking off close to $1 billion off the company's market value. By late afternoon, after a mea culpa from the CEO, the stock had recovered from the worst losses -- but its market value was still off by $250 million.


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## fishinguy (Aug 5, 2004)

Ernest said:


> The airlines are not required to give you the written disclosure until you are bumped.


I am pretty sure that he was bumped thus requiring the disclosure.

I am guessing United will move quickly to pay this guy to keep his mouth shut once he hits the media circuit to limit him to his 15 minutes. He's getting paid.

Other airlines overbook but they manage to avoid physical assault and dragging people off their planes. Everyone has a price United just thought they could save a few bucks and toss this guy off the plane.


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## JakeNeil (Nov 10, 2012)

So did a United Airlines official tell the police officer to drag him off the plane? 

Why doesn't there seem to be more focus on the officer's actions?


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## Fish4Life (Jul 8, 2005)

Those of you saying you would of just gotten off calmly are full of it. Let's say you are on your way to something very important(huge business deal or like your son/daughters wedding). I find it hard to believe that if you were going to miss something like that and you were already seated on the plane, that you'd be ok with it. Stand up for yourselves freaking pushover snowflakes.


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## RLwhaler (Sep 10, 2005)

Sugar Land YAK said:


> Can't believe some people are saying that it's ok to beat a man over a airplane seat.
> 
> In the mean time stock is down 6% overnight and the biggest growth market for United (China) is ******.
> 
> Now congress is in on the act, the fat lady wouldn't be able to sing for a few more years..


United stock should be at bargain prices in the morning. Getcha some. :rotfl:


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## mas360 (Nov 21, 2006)

JakeNeil said:


> So did a United Airlines official tell the police officer to drag him off the plane?
> 
> Why doesn't there seem to be more focus on the officer's actions?


United denied instructing the police to use physical force. They said they only called in the police. It was the individual policeman decision to employ physical force.

Police officers are supposed to be Peace Officers. They could not use physical force where the subject did not break any law. On videos and also by multiple witness accounts the subject did not hit any of the three cops. Dr. Dao did not break any law. The cop who conducted the physical assault basically was acting as bouncer/mercenary for United Airline. His commander already confirmed the action failed department rules/regulations.

Ever since 911 the police in general and the airlines have been empowered in the name of passenger safety. That has morphed itself into a police state mentality as clearly demonstrated in this case. It is time to reign it in and do away with the 911 battle cry as an excuse to step on civil liberty. I personally am glad to see a citizen stood his ground against police brutality and corporate greed.


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## mas360 (Nov 21, 2006)

Ernest said:


> The airlines are not required to give you the written disclosure until you are bumped. That means, at the counter in the airport. Not on the plane. Not instantaneously. Promptly after you are bumped.
> 
> Even if they failed to do so, that's not king's x. You still don't get to refuse the orders of the flight crew or the local police.
> 
> ...


This entire post is nothing more than a crock of bull pulled out of your southern end.


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## ChuChu (Jan 23, 2010)

I'm watching an interview with the United CEO, and he is about to start crying. He looks like a man that is about to be fired from his job. He says the police will never be called to remove a paid, booked, and boarded passenger again.


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## RRfisher (Mar 5, 2007)

dumb to double down like that. So many scenarios may need police intervention.


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## Sugar Land YAK (Jun 19, 2004)

ChuChu said:


> I'm watching an interview with the United CEO, and he is about to start crying. He looks like a man that is about to be fired from his job. He says the police will never be called to remove a paid, booked, and boarded passenger again.


This is what happens when you hire idiots to do a job when they are not cable of making good decisions.

The gate agent abused the power she was given and now the CEO is on the hot seat.

The agent isn't worried because if she is let go her union will sue & win.

The union & lawyer will get 70% and the gate agent 30 %.

Life goes on....


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## ChuChu (Jan 23, 2010)

RRfisher said:


> dumb to double down like that. So many scenarios may need police intervention.


You didn't read what he said. He said....Law enforcement will will never be called to remove a paid, booked, and boarded passenger. In other words, when over booked, United will use administrative methods to get passengers to "volunteer" to get off plane. Exactly what they should have done in this case.


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## poppadawg (Aug 10, 2007)

All that cause someone at Unitied decided it would be too expensive to buy back the tickets from passengers.


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## Sugar Land YAK (Jun 19, 2004)

ChuChu said:


> I'm watching an interview with the United CEO, and he is about to start crying. He looks like a man that is about to be fired from his job. He says the police will never be called to remove a paid, booked, and boarded passenger again.


Now everybody is going to be getting $1350 for a overbook seat. Normally they start out at $200...poor United...I'm thinking of a new profession for retirement.


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## RRfisher (Mar 5, 2007)

ChuChu said:


> You didn't read what he said. He said....Law enforcement will will never be called to remove a paid, booked, and boarded passenger. In other words, when over booked, United will use administrative methods to get passengers to "volunteer" to get off plane. Exactly what they should have done in this case.


This post is very contradicting.


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## ChuChu (Jan 23, 2010)

RRfisher said:


> This post is very contradicting.


How so?


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## troutslayer (Feb 7, 2006)

Hello


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## boom! (Jul 10, 2004)

Sugar Land YAK said:


> Now everybody is going to be getting $1350 for a overbook seat. Normally they start out at $200...poor United...I'm thinking of a new profession for retirement.


I'm betting that airlines will get better at not overbooking.


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## w_r_ranch (Jan 14, 2005)

Blk Jck 224 said:


> I bet $ they are wishing that they would have used gloves after finding out they were handling a bleeding, closet pole smoker, heroin addict.


According to sources, David Ahn Duy Dao is the person disciplined by the Kentucky Board of Medical Licenser. The one dragged off the United flight has the name David Thanh Duc Dao.

Leave it to the media (specifically TMZ) to get the wrong guy in their rush to get a story out...


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## MarkU (Jun 3, 2013)

Anywho, United just screwed the pooch for all other airlines. Like others mentioned. No one will be taking the first low offer to get bumped from a flight.

My mother recently flew to St. Louis to visit my bro/grand kids. She told me her ticket price was $200.00 (for instance). But, she had to pay an extra $25.00 for her seat. I asked her if there was an option to stand up during the flight.


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## poppadawg (Aug 10, 2007)

Unitied Airlines, We treat you like a King...........Rodney King


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## mas360 (Nov 21, 2006)

LOL


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## Blk Jck 224 (Oct 16, 2009)

w_r_ranch said:


> According to sources, David Ahn Duy Dao is the person disciplined by the Kentucky Board of Medical Licenser. The one dragged off the United flight has the name David Thanh Duc Dao.
> 
> Leave it to the media (specifically TMZ) to get the wrong guy in their rush to get a story out...


Yikes...I hope I don't get named in a defamation suit! :help:


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## w_r_ranch (Jan 14, 2005)

LOL!!! Winston Churchill once said:

*"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on."
*
That's especially true in today's media, unfortunately.


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## capt.sandbar (Aug 31, 2007)

United reward points are pathetic as well. I recently flew to Delhi India via a stop in Newark NJ. They gave me a whopping 67 miles in points for the IAH to Newark leg and an even more impressive 330 miles from Newark to Delhi.
That's over 8000 miles flown with 400 mile credit in points. And they lost my luggage for 5 days. 
They will be my last choice in travel options!


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## Sugar Land YAK (Jun 19, 2004)

As a customer every time our politicians de-regulated a "monopoly" we lose.


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## Spirit (Nov 19, 2008)

mas360 said:


> ....I personally am glad to see a citizen stood his ground against police brutality and corporate greed.


Since you enjoy temper tantrums, do you also offer words of encouragement when you see a child throwing a screaming fit in the middle of a store for not getting their way? There is zero difference between the two. That whole incident was nothing but an "adult" behaving like a two year old.


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## CentexPW (Jun 22, 2004)

As a business owner this is a PR nightmare. Other than that the whole culture of the company is messed up. This is a great article by Dave Crenshaw from Linkedin

http://www.linkedin.com/pulse/heres...efBfyPw&fromEmail=fromEmail&ut=0umOPhlrDlrTI1


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## BBCAT (Feb 2, 2010)

What happened to Ernest?


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## mas360 (Nov 21, 2006)

Spirit said:


> Since you enjoy temper tantrums, do you also offer words of encouragement when you see a child throwing a screaming fit in the middle of a store for not getting their way? There is zero difference between the two. That whole incident was nothing but an "adult" behaving like a two year old.


You are comparing apple to orange.


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## Blk Jck 224 (Oct 16, 2009)

mas360 said:


> You are comparing apple to orange.


You might not even be in the same fruit bowl with that one Spirit...LOL


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## Lagunaroy (Dec 30, 2013)

Spirit said:


> Since you enjoy temper tantrums, do you also offer words of encouragement when you see a child throwing a screaming fit in the middle of a store for not getting their way? There is zero difference between the two. That whole incident was nothing but an "adult" behaving like a two year old.


You are just trolling...right?


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## Spirit (Nov 19, 2008)

mas360 said:


> You are comparing apple to orange.


You are oh so right. It can be excused somewhat in children. My bad.


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## Grumpy365 (Oct 21, 2010)

Sugar Land YAK said:


> As a customer every time our politicians de-regulated a "monopoly" we lose.


Politicians deregulate industry. They break up a monopoly.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here.

Either way it creates a freer market place. Is that ever a bad thing?

You are supporting MORE government regulation?


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## Ernest (May 21, 2004)

Ernest is still around. He has merely spent the morning battling the print problems associated with adobe acrobat dc. That program updated last night (I think) and password protected all my pdf's. With a password I did not create or know. So, I'm a bit miffed. 

One more time - If I am in a car wreck - even if its my fault - and I call the police to the scene, I am not liable if the police beat up the other driver. 

If I see someone outside my house in the bushes at 2:00 a.m., and I call the police, I am not liable if the police show up and beat the living chit out of my next door neighbor that was looking for his lost cat. 

Once the police arrive, and they are on official business, I am not permitted to interfere with their efforts. In fact, it may be a criminal offense to do so. 

Airlines are instructed to call the police, as opposed to getting involved with passengers at the airport. 

So, step by step: 

United is within its rights to tell the guy to get off. No doubt about that. Might not be good policy, might not be wise, but it is within their rights. In fact, until the plane takes off, they can return to the gate and order any passenger off the plane. 

Passenger is not within his rights to refuse that instruction. Its not an option or a negotiation. Its an instruction or order. Shall, not may or please. His refusal creates a criminal trespass. A crime. 

Once he refuses, United is within their rights to call security - in this instance, the local police. 

Once the police arrive, they are authorized to order the passenger to exit the plane. He does not get to refuse their lawful instructions. His refusal creates an on-going criminal trespass. An offense. An offense that occurs in the presence of police, so there is no he said/she said. They saw it with their own eyes. 

He is subject to arrest right then and there. 

Once he refuses the police instruction, the police can drag him off. If they use excessive force, that's on the police, assuming United did not instruct them to hurt the guy. 

If he then breaks away from the police and re-enters the plane without permission - another crime, or at least a huge potential civil fine. 

Now, the mob mentality is well at work here. Most refuse to acknowledge the authority of the airlines or the police. 

If the story is told with the headline - idiot refuses instructions from police and wins stupid prize - this same mob would be on here explaining how its the passenger's fault. But, since it was sold with the opposite headline, people have allowed their emotions and bias against airlines to over run all sense of reason, logical, or basic linear thinking. 

United has made a mess of this from a PR angle, for sure. But, the bottom line remains the same. 

As we were all told as children - do not resist or refuse to follow the lawful instructions of the police, or it will end badly. You can run all you want, jog across America, but once the police tell you to stop, if you continue to run, you probably going to take a beating. 

Simple rules. Easy to follow. Ignore at your own risk.


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## cman (Apr 17, 2009)

That's all gobblygoop. Doesn't matter. United IS taking the heat for this. That's the point. Within their rights or not, they are paying out the rear for this and will continue to do so. They'll change their policies and continue to pay a higher price for this for years to come. 
It is my right to sleep with my doors and windows unlocked and to store my cash in plain view. Just because it is my right does not mean I won't lose everything I have if I do so.


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## Harbormaster (May 26, 2000)

This just in!


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## Sugar Land YAK (Jun 19, 2004)

Grumpy365 said:


> Politicians deregulate industry. They break up a monopoly.
> 
> I'm not sure what you are trying to say here.
> 
> ...


Companies did not push for deregulation to benefit consumers, it push it to make more money..

The airlines wanted deregulation so it could get out of cities it no longer wanted to fly to.

Airlines growth is limited to tax payer funded airports by the number of gates.

Take your Utilites, both the gas & electric Utilites have just ask for rate increases in Harris county. While natural resource prices are trending at lower historical prices.


----------



## BBCAT (Feb 2, 2010)

"United has made a mess of this from a PR angle, for sure. But, the bottom line remains the same"

You are right, the bottom line is he will have a major claim and this will cost UA big time.


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## Empty Pockets CC (Feb 18, 2009)

Ernest said:


> Ernest is still around. He has merely spent the morning battling the print problems associated with adobe acrobat dc. That program updated last night (I think) and password protected all my pdf's. With a password I did not create or know. So, I'm a bit miffed.
> 
> One more time - If I am in a car wreck - even if its my fault - and I call the police to the scene, I am not liable if the police beat up the other driver.
> 
> ...


Counselor, with all due respect, you're wrong. You'll get to see why you're wrong soon. The court of law, not public opinion, will award this guy damages from United and the rent a cop that injured him. I can tell that you're a lawyer and not a businessman. Business cannot be conducted in this way period. 
And if a cop told me to do something I didn't want to do because I thought it was wrong I wouldn't do it. You wouldn't do it. This man didn't do it. 
Admit it, you're wrong. Give it up man.


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## DannyMac (May 22, 2004)

Doesn't matter what this guy should have done or not, doesn't matter if United was right or wrong, excessive force yes/no. What does matter is this incident could have been handled in a different manner and will now cost United and airport security some $$$$$!


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## Grumpy365 (Oct 21, 2010)

Empty Pockets CC said:


> Counselor, with all due respect, you're wrong. You'll get to see why you're wrong soon. The court of law, not public opinion, will award this guy damages from United and the rent a cop that injured him. I can tell that you're a lawyer and not a businessman. Business cannot be conducted in this way period.
> And if a cop told me to do something I didn't want to do because I thought it was wrong I wouldn't do it. You wouldn't do it. This man didn't do it.
> Admit it, you're wrong. Give it up man.


I like your sentiment, but I think you give people too much credit.

A couple of kids in the South get pulled over for speeding. When the trooper approaches the car, the driver says 'What's the problem, sir?'.

The trooper takes out his machined aluminum flashlight and whacks the kid across the head saying 'You don't speak to a state trooper unless you're spoken to'.

The trooper writes out the citation and gives it to the driver who responds 'Thanks a lot'.

The trooper again gives the kid a dose of the flashlight and says 'When you address a state trooper, you finish your sentence with the word sir'.

He then walks over to the passenger side and whacks the other kid with the flashlight.

The kid says 'What was that for, sir?'

The trooper says 'I was just fulfilling your wish.
Y'all wouldn't have gotten 100 yards down this road before you'd have said to your friend, "I wish he'd have hit me with that flashlight", so I fulfilled your wish.'

When it's time to stand up for yourself most people aren't "snowflakes", They're sheep. And not many wouldn't be herded out of the plane by the shepherd or wolf or whatever it may be.


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## Empty Pockets CC (Feb 18, 2009)

Grumpy365 said:


> I like your sentiment, but I think you give people too much credit.
> 
> A couple of kids in the South get pulled over for speeding. When the trooper approaches the car, the driver says 'What's the problem, sir?'.
> 
> ...


Totally understand. There are still a few of us out there that would stand up for ourselves when we see something happening that is blatantly wrong. 
The Police do an outstanding job policing our country. Just like everyone and every industry, however, there are some bad apples out there.


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## mas360 (Nov 21, 2006)

Grumpy365 said:


> I like your sentiment, but I think you give people too much credit.
> 
> A couple of kids in the South get pulled over for speeding. When the trooper approaches the car, the driver says 'What's the problem, sir?'.
> 
> ...


A second passenger just spoke up about being threatened with handcuff if not obeying order to leave.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/honestly-united-passenger-video-bad-175850920.html


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## tstorm5 (Aug 27, 2009)

Well UAL Stock is almost back to previous numbers. Looks like they were hated for roughly 24 hours.


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## Texas T (May 21, 2004)

*Not such a great doctor after all*

Who would want him taking care of you or your family



> Troubling details have emerged about the Kentucky doctor who was dragged off a United flight at O'Hare International Airport on Monday.
> Dr. David Dao was charged with 98 felony drug counts in 2003 for illegally prescribing and trafficking painkillers such as hydrocodone, OxyContin and Percocet.
> According to a criminal complaint filed against him, Dao also allegedly solicited sex from a male patient in exchange for drug prescriptions.
> Dao, who attended medical school in Vietnam in the 1970s, was eventually convicted on six felony counts of obtaining drugs by fraud and deceit.
> Dao was placed on five years of supervised probation in January 2005, although he surrendered his medical license one month later, according to the Courier Journal.


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## Blk Jck 224 (Oct 16, 2009)

Texas T said:


> Who would want him taking care of you or your family


You might want to go back to post #243...Think the media might have screwed the pooch with that report


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## Empty Pockets CC (Feb 18, 2009)

tstorm5 said:


> Well UAL Stock is almost back to previous numbers. Looks like they were hated for roughly 24 hours.


Incorrect. Look again.


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## Bayscout22 (Aug 9, 2007)

piratelight said:


> I fly 2 - 4 flights a week. Almost exclusively united. I fly them because iah is a hub and any other airline I'll have to make connections every trip. I really haven't noticed any sort of difference in any of the airlines service. They all over book and all have money as their top priority, as does any business. All that said dude should have got up and left when asked. I would have been really ****** off if I was waiting to get home to my family and this jerk was holding the whole plane up. **** happens suck it up and take the vouchers or miles. Don't drag everyone on the plane down with you.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Have you noticed a difference in the quality of the aircraft? Since the merger, United seems to fly the crappiest fleet in the world.


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## Fishin' Soldier (Dec 25, 2007)

Blk Jck 224 said:


> You might want to go back to post #243...Think the media might have screwed the pooch with that report


Think he has a defamation lawsuit now as well? :headknock


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## bwguardian (Aug 30, 2005)

LOL!


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## mas360 (Nov 21, 2006)

Originally Posted by Texas T:
Who would want him taking care of you or your family
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

The doctor seen on the video being assaulted by the Chicago Airport Security Police is *David Thanh Duc Dao*. He has no criminal record.

The doctor in Kentucky, who has criminal background for illegally prescribing drugs, is *David Anh Huy Dao*.

Those are two different individuals.


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## Bayscout22 (Aug 9, 2007)

Fish4Life said:


> Those of you saying you would of just gotten off calmly are full of it. Let's say you are on your way to something very important(huge business deal or like your son/daughters wedding). I find it hard to believe that if you were going to miss something like that and you were already seated on the plane, that you'd be ok with it. Stand up for yourselves freaking pushover *snowflakes*.


Darn, I hate to say it, but I think Ernest has it 100% correct.

If an entity is on the hook, it's not UAL. Might be Republic or the airlines operating the commuter flights. Could be the cops who yanked him off the flight.

As for UAL taking a financial beating? I was thinking it might take a whole week for the stock to battle back. From my POV, the stock is off a little more than the entire market is over the last five days. They have already recovered.

As for snowflake behavior... It's more like a snowflake to dig his feet in, clench his armrests, and defy the compliance requested by law enforcement. Chicago to Louisville is a four hour drive. The smart thing to would have been to negotiate a couple grand and pay an UBER guy $150. Or rent a limo. Or catch the next flight.

Yes, it could have been handled better. Yes, they might throw this guy a few bucks. But no, it isn't going to make a difference in the long term. I fly a lot and I can name a dozen airlines that do a better job than United. However, like someone stated previously, if you live in Houston you may hate them but United is just a fact of life.


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## Ernest (May 21, 2004)

Really? 

There are two Dao's licensed to practice medicine in KY. They live at the same address. One is a woman that works as a pediatrician. The other one trades hard drugs/cash for booty action at local motels, and as a result, was convicted of six felonies. So, his license was suspended. 

The guy taken off the plane purportedly has a wife that is a doctor and works as a pediatrician according to news reports. He claims to be a doctor with an office in KY. 

I'm not saying they are the same person, but if they are different people, then the guy drug off the plane is not a doctor in KY.

I tend to believe that this character is well known to the local paper which published his background. Trading drugs for sex and being convicted of six felonies is big news in places like Louisville.


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## Lagunaroy (Dec 30, 2013)

Ernest said:


> Really?
> 
> There are two Dao's licensed to practice medicine in KY. They live at the same address. One is a woman that works as a pediatrician. The other one trades hard drugs/cash for booty action at local motels, and as a result, was convicted of six felonies. So, his license was suspended.
> 
> ...


Now that is real lawyer talk...no truth but real lawyer talk. ****, just reading your post makes me want to take a shower.


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## Profish00 (May 21, 2004)

https://thepilotwifelife.wordpress....thoughts-from-a-pilot-wife-about-flight-3411/


----------



## Squid94 (Nov 15, 2010)

*Woooo...*

.


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## Spirit (Nov 19, 2008)

Blk Jck 224 said:


> You might want to go back to post #243...Think the media might have screwed the pooch with that report


His actions on the plane should be enough to ruin his medical career. Who can trust a person that let's their emotions rule their actions? I wonder if he falls on the floor and acts like a baby every time he gets upset at his medical assistant or his patients. Would he lay on the floor and refuse to move if the hospital changed operating rooms? If being asked to exit a plane turns him into a squealing, tantrum thrower that falls on the floor can you imagine how he would act under a life/death stress situation? He'd probably be throwing water in the air hoping to hit the face of God for ruining his day.


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## boom! (Jul 10, 2004)

Spirit said:


> His actions on the plane should be enough to ruin his medical career. Who can trust a person that let's their emotions rule their actions? I wonder if he falls on the floor and acts like a baby every time he gets upset at his medical assistant or his patients. Would he lay on the floor and refuse to move if the hospital changed operating rooms? If being asked to exit a plane turns him into a squealing, tantrum thrower that falls on the floor can you imagine how he would act under a life/death stress situation? He'd probably be throwing water in the air hoping to hit the face of God for ruining his day.


Racist. :rotfl:


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## Ernest (May 21, 2004)

Actually, the medical board that disciplined the drug dealing, booty sex loving Dr. Dao had some interesting words about his mental capacity and fitness. They also required him to pass a polygraph without any indications of deception. 

He is the type of guy that lies about taking drugs, even after he pops positive. Lies about gay sex even when he is caught in a motel room with his shirt off and pants undone with another man. Lies about paying a man for sex, but writes off the cash payments to the guy he was humping. 

In summary, as of 2009, he still "maintained a pattern of deception" that was inconsistent with the accountability necessary for practice of medicine. 

In light of that backdrop, if its the same guy, acting up on a plane is the least of his worries.


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## goatchze (Aug 1, 2006)

Ernest said:


> Ernest is still around. He has merely spent the morning battling the print problems associated with adobe acrobat dc. That program updated last night (I think) and password protected all my pdf's. With a password I did not create or know. So, I'm a bit miffed.
> 
> One more time - If I am in a car wreck - even if its my fault - and I call the police to the scene, I am not liable if the police beat up the other driver.
> 
> ...


Chris Rock has a nice instructional video on this very topic.


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## Lee T (Jun 15, 2016)

I suggest that "Doctor" never has to work again.
What an act.

Some folks I tell ya!

:texasflag


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## Spirit (Nov 19, 2008)

Spirit said:


> Some days you be da windshield, some days you be da bug. At least boy bugs don't scream like girl bugs, fall down like baby bugs and have to be drug off when they hit the windshield.
> 
> The man had every right to be angry but his actions caused the problem. *He was asked to leave the plane, refused, was escorted out of the cabin, broke free, ran up the aisle and jumped in his seat. That's when the video begins. They are pulling him out of the seat he had just re-occupied.* Hopefully, if any of you were in that situation, even though everyone on the plane would know how you felt about it, you'd be man - or woman - enough to comply and walk out on your own.


Had to make a minor correction to my original post. I knew he broke free but I thought it was after they were in the terminal. I didn't realize he got away on the plane and this video was taken after he had pushed through and re-occupied his previous seat.


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## Ernest (May 21, 2004)

Check out the new video just released. 

Police ask him to leave, he refuses and threatens a lawsuit. Police tell him they are going to drag him off. His response - "You can drag me, I'm not going. I'm staying right here. You'll have to drag me." 

Never dare a police officer to arrest you. By extension, never dare them to drag you off a plane. 

Stupid games, stupid prizes, brought to you by stupid snowflakes.


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## Empty Pockets CC (Feb 18, 2009)

Anyone want to wager what he gets awarded? All in, I say he gets $2,000,000. Of course the lawyers will get half of that, so he gets to walk away with $1,000,000.00.


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## poppadawg (Aug 10, 2007)

The Docs a whacko. Who in this day and age screws around with authority on an airplane. That said, man did UAL screw the pooch. World wide /24/7 coverage of a screaming bloodied 69 year old customer being dragged off the plane. All because they wanted to save a few bucks by not buying back the seats from ticket holders. Might be completely within their rights, but that doesn't make a good Fn idea.


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## RRbohemian (Dec 20, 2009)

Profish00 said:


> http://thepilotwifelife.wordpress.c...thoughts-from-a-pilot-wife-about-flight-3411/


After reading the comments I'm starting to be on United's side.


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## HoustonKid (Dec 29, 2005)

Like I said before and after watching the CEO just now on national news, United cannot pay this guy fast enough. He is going to be paid and paid soon. CEO says it should have never happened and United will never again call the police to remove a passenger due to overbooking. 
Boom. Done. He gets paid. 
I still absolutely do not agree with the doc's actions but he is gonna get $$$$$. Not to mention every news media outlet that reported he was a drug addicted hooker fiend. Apparently that was false. Slander $$$$ forth coming.


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## carryyourbooks (Feb 13, 2009)

sharkinaggie07 said:


> This is why you don't fly United. I am sorry but that airline has no interest in assisting customers or making their traveling experience enjoyable. I travel quite a bit and I avoid United like the plague. For that company, it is all about being as profitable as possible...no matter what the cost. United has been headed steadily downward since the continental/united merger.
> 
> -SA
> 
> P.S. United oversells EVERY flight. They bank on the fact that not all passengers are going to make the flight. Puts them in a bind when all the passengers end up showing up though.


Who do you use instead?


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## poppadawg (Aug 10, 2007)

The passenger ticket contract is 46 pages. I haven't read it.


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## RRbohemian (Dec 20, 2009)

HoustonKid said:


> Like I said before and after watching the CEO just now on national news, United cannot pay this guy fast enough. He is going to be paid and paid soon. CEO says it should have never happened and United will never again call the police to remove a passenger due to overbooking.
> Boom. Done. He gets paid.
> I still absolutely do not agree with the doc's actions but he is gonna get $$$$$. *Not to mention every news media outlet that reported he was a drug addicted hooker fiend. Apparently that was false. *Slander $$$$ forth coming.


It can't be false--the mighty lawyer Ernest says so, so it has to be true. You know, cuz lawyers never lie.


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## carryyourbooks (Feb 13, 2009)

Spirit said:


> Last I checked, United owned the plane.


They own the plane and they will pay dearly for this.


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## Sugar Land YAK (Jun 19, 2004)

HoustonKid said:


> Like I said before and after watching the CEO just now on national news, United cannot pay this guy fast enough. He is going to be paid and paid soon. CEO says it should have never happened and United will never again call the police to remove a passenger due to overbooking.
> Boom. Done. He gets paid.
> I still absolutely do not agree with the doc's actions but he is gonna get $$$$$. Not to mention every news media outlet that reported he was a drug addicted hooker fiend. Apparently that was false. Slander $$$$ forth coming.


The dude will be flying his own plane very soon, good for him..

The CEO sure did change his tune quickly, I would have love to hear the phone call where someone straighten his ***** out.

Probably be a great time to offer corporate classes on customer service right now.


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## Gottagofishin (Dec 17, 2005)

On my fourth United flight of the week right now. All have been fully booked with passengers on standby. I haven't seen any beatings so far. 

The New Polaris club in O'Hare is off the hook. Complimentary Whistlepig at the bar. Seriously?

I'm not saying the situation was handled well, but when you pass through security you are under a different rule set. If you refuse the orders of a flight crew, something you don't like is going to happen. I see it at least once a month.


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## tstorm5 (Aug 27, 2009)

Gottagofishin said:


> On my fourth United flight of the week right now. All have been fully booked with passengers on standby. I haven't seen any beatings so far.
> 
> The New Polaris club in O'Hare is off the hook. Complimentary Whistlepig at the bar. Seriously?
> 
> I'm not saying the situation was handled well, but when you pass through security you are under a different rule set. If you refuse the orders of a flight crew, something you don't like is going to happen. I see it at least once a month.


Aaaah, finally an educated voice of reason.


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## boom! (Jul 10, 2004)

tstorm5 said:


> Aaaah, finally an educated voice of reason.


I dunno, he's spending his time in security and flying commercial.........


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## w_r_ranch (Jan 14, 2005)

tstorm5 said:


> aaaah, finally an educated voice of reason.


ggf??? Roflmao!!!


----------



## JakeNeil (Nov 10, 2012)

The views and mentalities of this thread are more interesting and alarming than the actual story. 

Quite a few more conformists than I thought there would be.


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## tstorm5 (Aug 27, 2009)

boom! said:


> I dunno, he's spending his time in security and flying commercial.........


A few of us here aren't able to call the FBO and have our G-5 towed out and ready to roll when our limo pulls up. I applauded those of you who can.


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## stinkypete (Oct 2, 2015)

Ernest said:


> No. Travel on an airlines is not renting an apartment. It does not establish a tenancy. Not even close. The traveler has zero property rights with respect to the seat.
> 
> There is a huge difference in the law applicable to real estate/real property like a house or apartment, and laws pertaining to personal property and movable things. This is clearly and unambiguously a contract of carriage, not a rental/tenancy/lease.
> 
> ...


Actually I have. Theres a few issues in there that fly loose with actual law. Have you also read the CoCs of all of Uniteds partner airlines? This was after all partner airline flying for United. Have you also read the actual federal law involving these issues? What about any local law? Do you realize that the officer involved actually had no authority to remove the passenger (which is why hes currently suspended) since the passenger hadnt broken any law the officer has jurisdiction over? The only possible violation (and thats debatable) is of a federal law and those officers have no authority to enforce it. United screwed the pooch and yes there will be a payout. Why do think the CEO was trying so hard to kiss this guys asss?


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## Sugar Land YAK (Jun 19, 2004)

United just announce every passenger on the flight will be refunded their ticket cost. For you sheep your better run that $1350 refund just became even more expensive...


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## Sugar Land YAK (Jun 19, 2004)

JakeNeil said:


> The views and mentalities of this thread are more interesting and alarming than the actual story.
> 
> Quite a few more conformists than I thought there would be.


Would sheep be a better description?


----------



## Sugar Land YAK (Jun 19, 2004)

Gottagofishin said:


> On my fourth United flight of the week right now. All have been fully booked with passengers on standby. I haven't seen any beatings so far.
> 
> The New Polaris club in O'Hare is off the hook. Complimentary Whistlepig at the bar. Seriously?
> 
> I'm not saying the situation was handled well, but when you pass through security you are under a different rule set. If you refuse the orders of a flight crew, something you don't like is going to happen. I see it at least once a month.


Didn't the CEO admitted that United was wrong..lol


----------



## tstorm5 (Aug 27, 2009)

Sugar Land YAK said:


> Didn't the CEO admitted that United was wrong..lol


Instead of saying, "When you fly United you will play by our rules" the United CEO went full sheep and conformist and said what the public wanted to hear. 
And there you have the current state of our country.


----------



## BullyARed (Jun 19, 2010)

stinkypete said:


> Actually I have. Theres a few issues in there that fly loose with actual law. Have you also read the CoCs of all of Uniteds partner airlines? This was after all partner airline flying for United. Have you also read the actual federal law involving these issues? What about any local law? Do you realize that the officer involved actually had no authority to remove the passenger (which is why hes currently suspended) since the passenger hadnt broken any law the officer has jurisdiction over? The only possible violation (and thats debatable) is of a federal law and those officers have no authority to enforce it. United screwed the pooch and yes there will be a payout. Why do think the CEO was trying so hard to kiss this guys asss?


Now his lawyer can sue United and Police. The flight was not overbooked! United just wanted to send their four guys to Louisville. Someone are being fired at United.


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## HoustonKid (Dec 29, 2005)

tstorm5 said:


> Instead of saying, "When you fly United you will play by our rules" the United CEO went full sheep and conformist and said what the public wanted to hear.
> And there you have the current state of our country.


He even went so far to say the Doc did nothing wrong and was in no way responsible for what happened. Re-stating that he should have never been asked to leave in the first place. I think the CEO realizes bumping him for employees after he was seated and a paying customer, was a big screw up. 
Yep, full sheep, trying to save his job and his arze. Doc gets paid, CEO stays, cops get fired, old news next week.


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## Lexy1 (Jul 12, 2012)

Someone will be fired or "forcefully resigned" at United. Just watch!


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## stinkypete (Oct 2, 2015)

BullyARed said:


> Now his lawyer can sue United and Police. The flight was not overbooked! United just wanted to send their four guys to Louisville. Someone are being fired at United.


The other big issue that super lawyer Ernest should have caught if he actually read Uniteds CoC is the fact that it only contains language regarding denial of boarding. According to the flight crew, united personell, and the CEO, the flight was fully boarded. Which means United already accepted and confirmed his seat. The CoC makes no mention of removing a passenger if the passenger hasnt given cause after boarding.

Also Uniteds CoC only mentions refusing a passenger to board on an OVERSOLD flight. The flight wasnt oversold. United wanted to board its employees the CoC has no mention of being bumped for this cause.

One more thing Ernest the flight crew is not the emporer du jour on the flight you do not have to blindly obey their orders. Its one thing if its based on rules or law. Quite another just because they say so. The pilot is a different case he does have the ability to deny passage for just about any reason, BUT if the articles I read were accurate this wasnt the pilot telling him to get off the plane it was the gate crew or a flight attendant.

Also the pilot better have a good reason because hes eventually going to answer to his employer. As an example a friend of mine was refused boarding when pilot decided not allow him to carry his firearm on the plane. He could have pressed the issue with the airline and they could have over ridden the pilot. This Dr issue should have gone up the food chain instead of some gate stooge acting all butthurt about being told no.


----------



## JakeNeil (Nov 10, 2012)

I think the very fact that this is causing so much controversy shows that the passenger was more so in the right than the airline or police. 

The critiquing public may not agree with the way that the passenger acted or presented himself, but if he would have simply got off the plane and not protested then the actions of airline would have not come to light.

If he got off without protest, it would probably be argued that he agreed to get off and no case against the airline giant would be pursued, whether the airline was in the wrong or not.

This passenger isn't the first person in history to refuse to give up his seat for someone else and look at the impact the others had.

Just because some of us would have gotten off the plane doesn't mean that the passenger was in the wrong. Go ahead and bash his behavior because you would have handled yourself differently, but if he was wrong, he would be in jail and the police and United wouldn't be scrambling.


----------



## mas360 (Nov 21, 2006)

JakeNeil said:


> I think the very fact that this is causing so much controversy shows that the passenger was more so in the right than the airline or police.
> 
> The critiquing public may not agree with the way that the passenger acted or presented himself, but if he would have simply got off the plane and not protested then the actions of airline would have not come to light.
> 
> ...


A few hours after the video went viral, the Chicago Police Department quickly confirmed it was not their officers involved in the assault.

The Airport Aviation Security followed with the announcement that the action was not in compliance with department regulations. They knew the physical assault by those three rogue cops was illegal. The one seen on video dragging the passenger was suspended with paid waiting investigation. He will be burned to save someone higher up.

Another United passenger has come forward to tell his story of being threatened with handcuff after he rejected the order to bump his first class seat for someone else more important than him. That is to show Dr. Dao has done the American consumers a great favor by standing his ground against thuggish cops and arrogant United Airline. They have abused the power we placed in their hands in the name of security after 911.


----------



## RRbohemian (Dec 20, 2009)

w_r_ranch said:


> ggf??? Roflmao!!!


Yeah, that was funny.


----------



## Ernest (May 21, 2004)

You are missing the concept of positive space. Read the Pilot's Wife write up. 

In summary, if there are 100 seats on a plane, and 4 qualifying crew show up that need to get to a destination, they take priority over EVERY customer. Every single one. So, it is as if 4 seats have been removed from the plane. So, while each of those paying customers might be in a seat, 4 are getting up and getting off. 

This is part of the Fed. Regs applicable to airlines. And, these regs "trump" the other aspects of the relationship between airline and customer. The "positive space" travelers are considered confirmed seats and can create a oversold situation on a flight that is not otherwise oversold.

No one is claiming you have to follow unlawful commands of the flight crew. Asking people to get off is not an unlawful command when you are parked at the gate.


----------



## waterfly (Sep 18, 2007)

K LoLo said:


> All airlines overbook flights. Typically though, it is handled before people board, and it is to fit all paying customers on. This was different because everyone had already boarded, but United needed/wanted to get a crew on board to get to the next destination.
> 
> They should have just kept raising the amount of vouchers until someone took it. I think Chicago to Louisville is a 5 hour drive? Offer someone $1,000+ voucher, plus a car rental, and a hotel voucher somewhere and they'll take it, no doubt. United over-reached and now they're going to pay in the form of legal fees, and probably even more bad press.


You are 100% Right. The airline has the right to overbook; but the passenger has the right to his seat on the plane. The only reasonable solution is for the airline to continue rising the offer until someone accept it. That is the cost of overbooking. The airlines either pay that cost or take the chance of flying with some empty seats.


----------



## 98aggie77566 (Jul 7, 2009)

Ernest said:


> You are missing the concept of positive space. Read the Pilot's Wife write up.
> 
> In summary, if there are 100 seats on a plane, and 4 qualifying crew show up that need to get to a destination, they take priority over EVERY customer. Every single one. So, it is as if 4 seats have been removed from the plane. So, while each of those paying customers might be in a seat, 4 are getting up and getting off.
> 
> ...


I'm not familiar with positive space...or the federal regulations you are referring to that put crew above all else. Can you please post a link?

Curious what constitutes "qualifying crew".

Regardless of the law....the court of public opinion operates under a different set of rules.

The apologies by United, and suspensions by law enforcement....sure seem to indicate that policies were not followed. The dude acted like an idiot...no doubt...but he is gonna get paid. Paid to shut up if nothing else.

In the end, the airline had a LOT more to lose than the doc....and they chose poorly in how to handle the situation.


----------



## ChuChu (Jan 23, 2010)

CHICAGO (AP) â€” The Latest on the removal of a passenger who was dragged off a United Express flight in Chicago (all times local):

5:30 p.m.

United says passengers on United Express Flight 3411 are getting compensation equal to the cost of their tickets.

United spokeswoman Megan McCarthy said Wednesday that the passengers can take the compensation in cash, travel credits or miles.

Flight 3411 on Sunday night from Chicago to Louisville, Kentucky, was sold out and passengers were in their seats when the airline said it needed to find room for four crew members who were commuting to their next assignment, a United Express flight in Louisville.

A 69-year-old passenger who did not want to give up his seat wound up being dragged off the plane by security officers. United CEO Oscar Munoz has apologized for the incident, and he vowed Wednesday that it will never happen again.


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## cman (Apr 17, 2009)

> You are missing the concept of positive space. Read the Pilot's Wife write up.
> 
> In summary, if there are 100 seats on a plane, and 4 qualifying crew show up that need to get to a destination, they take priority over EVERY customer. Every single one. So, it is as if 4 seats have been removed from the plane. So, while each of those paying customers might be in a seat, 4 are getting up and getting off.
> 
> ...


My friends call ME tenacious when we go on fishing trips because I am always first on the water and last off the water. Every single trip. Ernest, I bet you'd give me a run for my money amigo.

I'm torn wondering if you are a good attorney because you are tenacious as heck, or a horrible attorney because you get all wrapped up in the axle on the wrong things and miss the big picture. 
I wonder what your estimate is of the cost of this debacle for UAL long term. Not only the effect on the market cap but on costs for legal, investigations, new policies and what those policies cost to create and implement, retraining, long term costs to UAL for the new policies which will surely favor the passenger more than current policies, increased advertising and marketing to the US and China where many are promising to boycott- you know, the bottom line cost.


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## boom! (Jul 10, 2004)

UA could have held those 4 seats prior to boarding. I'd bet that they were not sure that their deadhead crew would make the flight and wanted the $$ for the seats.


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## ChuChu (Jan 23, 2010)

A real lawyer's opinion.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/united-airlines-dragging-passenger-off-201302721.html


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## Sugar Land YAK (Jun 19, 2004)

ChuChu said:


> A real lawyer's opinion.
> 
> http://www.yahoo.com/news/united-airlines-dragging-passenger-off-201302721.html


In the military the "know it all's are called "barrack lawyers"...


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## Ernest (May 21, 2004)

Positive space is an industry term. Its defined in most carriers boarding materials/policy manuals. 

In the United World, it means basically guaranteed a seat. It could be crews that have to travel or sometimes customers with actual guaranteed seats. This is in contrast with paying customers that do not have guarantied seats. 

The explanation of why this crew is positive space which "trumps" other paying customers is far more complicated. I can walk you thru it, but it will be rather thick.


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## Jay512 (Oct 17, 2005)

In the future I am guessing United will make everyone de-board and board again. At this time they will deny access randomly if no one takes compensation.


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## ChuChu (Jan 23, 2010)

Sugar Land YAK said:


> In the military the "know it all's are called "barrack lawyers"...


Is that what our resident "know it all" is called?


----------



## BullyARed (Jun 19, 2010)

ChuChu said:


> A real lawyer's opinion.
> 
> http://www.yahoo.com/news/united-airlines-dragging-passenger-off-201302721.html


United will pay big for their employees' stupidity. There was no urgency or life threatening that their four employees must be on that plan, stupid judgment and United will pay big. But, they will pass on this cost to consumers over time.


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## stinkypete (Oct 2, 2015)

Ernest said:


> You are missing the concept of positive space. Read the Pilot's Wife write up.
> 
> In summary, if there are 100 seats on a plane, and 4 qualifying crew show up that need to get to a destination, they take priority over EVERY customer. Every single one. So, it is as if 4 seats have been removed from the plane. So, while each of those paying customers might be in a seat, 4 are getting up and getting off.
> 
> ...


I think you need to go back and read more carefully. Im pretty sure that doesnt apply after the flight is boarded. At least for moving airline crew. Thats reserved for special cases such as medical emergencies, such as moving a paitient or organs, some very certain law enforcement requirements, and a few other issues. Moving airline crews from airport to airport does not qualify AFTER a flight is boarded. They can cause bumped passengers before boarding, after is a completely different ball game.

One final thing, youre bringing up a FEDERAL reg. If it applied its something those officers had no authority to enforce or probably knowledge of, to make sure it fell within the guidelines. The local officer should have told the airline no and the airline should have called the proper authorities (TSA has real LE agents, not the fondlers at security checkpoints) who would/should have known what if anything needed to be done.

Stop while your ahead, the CEO has already publically stated that what they did was outside of their policy and the rules.


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## Bayscout22 (Aug 9, 2007)

cman said:


> I wonder what your estimate is of the cost of this debacle for UAL long term. Not only the effect on the market cap but on costs for legal, investigations, new policies and what those policies cost to create and implement, retraining, long term costs to UAL for the new policies which will surely favor the passenger more than current policies, increased advertising and marketing to the US and China where many are promising to boycott- you know, the bottom line cost.


It's a fair question. Here are two more:

1) In one month (or one week or one day), will this be a bigger deal or a smaller deal than it is now? We will all pretty much forget about it. The hit to the market cap is roughly equal to the S&P (see below). This is already over for UAL. Tomorrow, the markets are closed, and by Monday this is a distant memory (from a cap perspective).

2) As an individual, will you pay $100 more for a ticket on another airline because you are offended by this issue? Will you fly a route that has a plane change? Multiple stops? Nope, me either.

In the end UAL will throw the guy a few bucks and there will be an NDA around what he was paid. You make some good points around probable costs, but in the end, all a drop in the bucket. The cost of doing business.

We consumers are great about using Social Media and the Internet to raise h--- (me included). But we aren't good at following through with our dollars.


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## Empty Pockets CC (Feb 18, 2009)

This will be around until a settlement is reached. 
Our resident attorney is failing us. Thank God we aren't paying for his advice.


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## pknight6 (Nov 8, 2014)

6.5 shooter dude said:


> Time to buy.


Unless they pull another bone headed stunt and the stock tanks even further. Plus, millions of Chines calling for a United boycott would have me a bit nervous.


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## pknight6 (Nov 8, 2014)

Ernest said:


> You are missing the concept of positive space. Read the Pilot's Wife write up.
> 
> In summary, if there are 100 seats on a plane, and 4 qualifying crew show up that need to get to a destination, they take priority over EVERY customer. Every single one. So, it is as if 4 seats have been removed from the plane. So, while each of those paying customers might be in a seat, 4 are getting up and getting off.
> 
> ...


In business, sometimes doing what you have a legal right to do, is the stupidest thing you could possibly do.


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## stinkypete (Oct 2, 2015)

Ernest you mentioned The Pilots Wifes Life as a basis for your position. A bloggers opinion isnt a very good place to get legal advice or something to base an argument on.

Especially when she says *â€œIf a federal law enforcement officer asks me to exit a plane, no matter how royally p**ed off I am, Iâ€™m going to do it and then seek other means of legal reimbursement. True story,â€ she wrote.

â€œKnowing what I know about airport security, Iâ€™m certainly not going to run back into a secured, federally restricted area at an airport flailing my arms and screaming like a bansheeâ€¦because, you know, that just happens to be breaking a major federal Homeland Security law.â€

The blogger, who has been married to a pilot for 15 years, also writes that United flight crew werenâ€™t to blame for the physical altercation that followed, and were just following protocol.

â€œOnce law enforcement became involvedâ€¦ United stepped out of the decision-making process. They had nothing to do with the rest,â€ she wrote.

â€œThe passenger was forcibly removed by federal aviation securityâ€¦ after [Dr Dao ran] back into the secured area after being escorted out once, [law enforcement] were under full discretion of the law to apply necessary force to remove the threat.

â€œIâ€™m not saying itâ€™s pretty, but the only one who actually broke a law was the passenger. Thereâ€™s a reason for these lawsâ€"itâ€™s called 9/11. We canâ€™t have it both ways*.â€

Shouldnt base an opinion off of some who conufuses local LE with Federal Agents. At that point her whole post is baseless.

Another issue please point out the "major Department of Homeland Security law" she mentioned that he broke. He was already in the secure area in a place he paid for that he was very likely illegally removed from. 
Sorry but that woman is wrong on most of her post.


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## Sugar Land YAK (Jun 19, 2004)

ChuChu said:


> Is that what our resident "know it all" is called?


I thinking more like "2Cool Lawyers" .


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## Sugar Land YAK (Jun 19, 2004)

Bayscout22 said:


> It's a fair question. Here are two more:
> 
> 2) As an individual, will you pay $100 more for a ticket on another airline because you are offended by this issue? Will you fly a route that has a plane change? Multiple stops? Nope, me either.


The criteria for myself is if the other airline lands within a hour & half travel time to the location I will fly them, cost hasn't been much of an issue yet, after retirement that factor might change.

*Reason for not flying the not- so friendly skies any more*

1) Frequent Flyer Programs/Free Flights - Took over 40 RT to DC one year; nothing to show for it, excepts bumps to 1st Class
2) Non-Existent Customer Service - Closed the doors on a gate with 20 customers un-boarding from a connecting flight; with no- schedule flights left for the day
3) Rude Employees - seen a passenger have a seizure they ignored it until a passenger started complaining
4) No common sense approach to customers


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## Empty Pockets CC (Feb 18, 2009)

Doc sustained a broken nose and a concussion. Oops.


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## cman (Apr 17, 2009)

Don't forget that-
He lost 2 teeth!! 
As a business owner I just can't shut up about the lasting impact and cost this will have on UAL. No offence to those who think theis will be forgotten in a few days, but I disagree. This will cost UAL dearly and will have ongoing costs for a long time to come.



> https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...-david-dao-family-press-conference/100409492/


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## Empty Pockets CC (Feb 18, 2009)

cman said:


> Don't forget that-
> 
> He lost 2 teeth!!
> 
> As a business owner I just can't shut up about the lasting impact and cost this will have on UAL. No offence to those who think theis will be forgotten in a few days, but I disagree. This will cost UAL dearly and will have ongoing costs for a long time to come.


Now they're saying he'll need reconstructive surgery. I'd like to change my initial payout coming from United and the rent a cops that beat him from 2 million to 12 million dollars. 
Munoz will now be toast. He'll be CEO of 3 snow cone stands by the end of May. 
Let me say this again...You don't treat paying customers like this! I don't care what the fine print, that no one reads, says. 
I hate litigation and everything that comes with it, but there's a fire in me that wants to see United hang for their actions. You don't treat people this way and you don't put policies in place to treat people this way. I don't care if the Fed Gov says if it's OK or not. It's Right versus Wrong at this point. Wrong costs 12 million. Any takers? I can't imagine what it will cost them in lost revenue and other costs. Don't beat up your paying customers!


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## Bayscout22 (Aug 9, 2007)

Empty Pockets CC said:


> Now they're saying he'll need reconstructive surgery. I'd like to change my initial payout coming from United and the rent a cops that beat him from 2 million to 12 million dollars.
> Munoz will now be toast. He'll be CEO of 3 snow cone stands by the end of May.
> Let me say this again...You don't treat paying customers like this! I don't care what the fine print, that no one reads, says.
> I hate litigation and everything that comes with it, but there's a fire in me that wants to see United hang for their actions. You don't treat people this way and you don't put policies in place to treat people this way. I don't care if the Fed Gov says if it's OK or not. It's Right versus Wrong at this point. Wrong costs 12 million. Any takers? I can't imagine what it will cost them in lost revenue and other costs. Don't beat up your paying customers!


Reconstructive surgery, therapy, the hot daughter with a practiced statement to the media. This is the way the game is played. There has to be a basis to drive up the cost of a possible suit before there is pay out to be calculated.

When there is a pay out, it will be for an undetermined amount. It'll be a blip on UAL's insurance policy.

Why would they fire the CEO? Just this week he was named Communicator of the Year.

http://www.prweek.com/article/14269...al&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer


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## tstorm5 (Aug 27, 2009)

I'm pretty sure UAL can handle this little "drop in a bucket" incident. Heck they are prepared to compensate hundreds in the event of a plane crash. They will shrug this off as a minor inconvenience. 
There will be something else to gather folks attention soon and even the folks that are most outraged by this silliness will move on to the next "crisis".


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## Empty Pockets CC (Feb 18, 2009)

Bayscout22 said:


> Reconstructive surgery, therapy, the hot daughter with a practiced statement to the media. This is the way the game is played. There has to be a basis to drive up the cost of a possible suit before there is pay out to be calculated.
> 
> When there is a pay out, it will be for an undetermined amount. It'll be a blip on UAL's insurance policy.
> 
> ...


https://www.thestreet.com/story/140...nited-ceo-munoz-communicator-of-the-year.html

The PR firm said they made an error naming that ivory tower dweller COTY. Oops.


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## HoustonKid (Dec 29, 2005)

I waiting to read Ernest's rebuttal to the illegal act of removing a seated customer for employees in a non-emergency situation.
I must rescend by statement he refused a lawful command. Apparently it was an unlawful command. If he knew that then huge win for the Doc. I think he got lucky in the fact it was not a lawful command and paid the price for challenging the officers command. He will be the wrap but he won't beat the ride. In the end, $$$$$$$$$$$ for the Doc.


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## Bayscout22 (Aug 9, 2007)

Empty Pockets CC said:


> http://www.thestreet.com/story/1408...nited-ceo-munoz-communicator-of-the-year.html
> 
> The PR firm said they made an error naming that ivory tower dweller COTY. Oops.


Sheep, right?

It's ironic that the ad that played when I followed your link is a video of Jim Kramer saying the UAL stock "will be fine" (but he loves SWA).

This just became way less interesting. I'm more interested in the new parking lot in Afghanistan. Unfortunately, this will also probably help the American public forget about the good doctor as well.


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## Empty Pockets CC (Feb 18, 2009)

I highly doubt it will be forgotten about soon. People will want to know what happens to United. They don't care about the Doc getting better as much as they care about United getting a black eye (pun intended) over the matter. Let's face it, United has mistreated its customers for a long, just like other airlines have and they'll rejoice when they get slapped with a big figure payout. Only then will it be forgotten about by the people and the media. Plenty of people still watching closely...I'm still one of them. We'll have to see what happens I guess.


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## ChuChu (Jan 23, 2010)

U.S.
The Latest: United issues another apology after man removed
Associated Press 9 minutes ago 

CHICAGO (AP) â€” The Latest on the removal of a passenger who was dragged off a United Express flight in Chicago (all times local):

2:10 p.m.

United Airlines has issued another apology to the man who was forcibly removed from a full flight, saying "we remain steadfast in our commitment to make this right."

The statement followed a Thursday news conference in which a lawyer for Dr. David Dao said the 69-year-old suffered a concussion and broken nose when he was dragged off Sunday's United Express flight.

Attorney Thomas Demetrio also said neither Dao nor his family had heard directly from United since the incident.

In its statement, United insisted again that CEO Oscar Munoz and the airline called Dao numerous times to apologize. Munoz said Wednesday that he had left a message for Dao.

United spokeswoman Megan McCarthy told The Associated Press she saw call logs that showed Munoz and United's customer care team had reached out to Dao.


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## TranTheMan (Aug 17, 2009)

Jesse Jackson jumped into the fray so it will drag on.


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## mas360 (Nov 21, 2006)

Empty Pockets CC said:


> I highly doubt it will be forgotten about soon. People will want to know what happens to United. They don't care about the Doc getting better as much as they care about United getting a black eye (pun intended) over the matter. Let's face it, United has mistreated its customers for a long, just like other airlines have and they'll rejoice when they get slapped with a big figure payout. Only then will it be forgotten about by the people and the media. Plenty of people still watching closely...I'm still one of them. We'll have to see what happens I guess.


I heard that the four United employees who took the seats actually were not flight crew. They were union member going to a meeting. 
If this is verified and true...oh boy, it is going to be more $$$ for the doc.

I am with you, enough is enough. It is time for consumers to take a stand and demand decent human treatment instead of abuses in the name of anti-terrorist this that and the other.


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## Sugar Land YAK (Jun 19, 2004)




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## Gottagofishin (Dec 17, 2005)

In plain English.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/flight/airlines/news/a26010/united-airlines-bump-passenger-rights/

While United clearly handled the situation badly, they did not break their CoC or violate any laws. They actually have the law on their side in this.

I'm sure they will settle to move past it quickly. But this is a PR issue as opposed to a legal one. that said PR issues can be more costly than actual legal liability.

The United terminals in Chicago were jam packed last night as were terminals C&E at IAH when I landed at 1030.

This is just a small blip to them, despite all the outrage.


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## boom! (Jul 10, 2004)

Gottagofishin said:


> In plain English.
> 
> http://www.popularmechanics.com/flight/airlines/news/a26010/united-airlines-bump-passenger-rights/


Weak, real freaking weak.


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## poppadawg (Aug 10, 2007)

Wonder if they would've done that to a black lady? Can you imagine that chitstorm?


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## ChuChu (Jan 23, 2010)

Gottagofishin said:


> In plain English.
> 
> http://www.popularmechanics.com/flight/airlines/news/a26010/united-airlines-bump-passenger-rights/
> 
> ...


That remains to be seen. The courts will define "boarded" and that is what matters on his removal. As far as the airport cop, I think he is in a world of hurt. I believe he will face criminal charges.


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## RRbohemian (Dec 20, 2009)

United just cannot get a break
http://www.foxnews.com/travel/2017/04/13/scorpion-stings-man-aboard-united-airlines-flight.html


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## grittydog (Jan 16, 2008)

My problem with this is that he is a senior citizen 69 years old, It takes a real BaD ***** to slam an old man. Bottom line is the Airline will get sued and they will have to pay up, maybe the Chicago Police Dept to. These cops need to go to the hood and rough up the hood rats not old men on United Airlines.....


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## dbarham (Aug 13, 2005)




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## boom! (Jul 10, 2004)

You can kick his arse, but you gotta bake him a cake if he wants to marry his boyfriend...


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## Gottagofishin (Dec 17, 2005)

boom! said:


> Weak, real freaking weak.


How so? Do you consider Popular mechanics a liberal rag?

It is what it is. You liberal G5 riders may consider this fascism, but it's what the rest of the free world calls air travel.


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## mas360 (Nov 21, 2006)

Ernest said:


> *You are missing the concept of positive space. Read the Pilot's Wife write up. *
> 
> In summary, if there are 100 seats on a plane, and 4 qualifying crew show up that need to get to a destination, they take priority over EVERY customer. Every single one. So, it is as if 4 seats have been removed from the plane. So, while each of those paying customers might be in a seat, 4 are getting up and getting off.
> 
> ...


How about you read the official pilot union statement instead of quoting a rant by a woman claiming to be pilot's wife for your mumbo jumbo argument?

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/infuriated-united-pilots-union-slams-222221180.html


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## Sugar Land YAK (Jun 19, 2004)

Gottagofishin said:


> How so? Do you consider Popular mechanics a liberal rag?
> 
> It is what it is. You liberal G5 riders may consider this fascism, but it's what the rest of the free world calls air travel.


Are you the same pilot who would post on the Houston community board about how great United was?


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## tstorm5 (Aug 27, 2009)

The airplane security folks seemed to have been as nice as possible until they were forced to not be nice. 
And why didn't all the complaining and distraught whiners in the video step up and help poor Mr. Dao if they were so outraged by what happened?
I hope United tells this Dao characters lawyers, "We'll see you in court".


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## Brew (May 21, 2004)

Sugar Land YAK said:


> Are you the same pilot who would post on the Houston community board about how great United was?


2 threads and about 30 posts. You seem to have quite the hard-on for UA, are you a bitter, fired, ex-employee?


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## Mad Mike (Dec 28, 2005)

.


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## Grumpy365 (Oct 21, 2010)

Brew said:


> 2 threads and about 30 posts. You seem to have quite the hard-on for UA, are you a bitter, fired, ex-employee?


Did you ever fly Continental ? Have you flown United? They took a real good airline and ruined it. The staff attitude got worse, the courtesy went out the window, they just suck.

I flew business travel A LOT on Continental, but I will do all I can do to avoid it now. I fly SWA even when I have to stop and change planes.


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## Sugar Land YAK (Jun 19, 2004)

Brew said:


> 2 threads and about 30 posts. You seem to have quite the hard-on for UA, are you a bitter, fired, ex-employee?


Nope, just a everyday flier(supporting a family) who has to put up with stupid snowflake sheep while trying to make a living..

Are you a airline employee as well?


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## Lexy1 (Jul 12, 2012)

Grumpy365 said:


> Did you ever fly Continental ? Have you flown United? They took a real good airline and ruined it. The staff attitude got worse, the courtesy went out the window, they just suck.
> 
> I flew business travel A LOT on Continental, but I will do all I can do to avoid it now. I fly SWA even when I have to stop and change planes.


Yup, I'm totally with you here.
Continental used to be awesome. Everyone I know and I love them dearly, we actually got shocked when we heard the merger (more like the takeover).

Back to the subject, I talked with a buddy cop yesterday and he told me what those three poor Aviation cops did was the reason for this whole situation. They better followed their boss' order. If they did that on their own, they will be in deeo *****. They might face both criminal and civil charge.

I talked with another buddy lawyer and he told me the doc has a solid case to win. He will name a lot of "people/company" as defendants. This will be an interest case of the century for aviation. He said this doc is a super smart guy He's a professional poker player/gambler. He knows when to call someone bluff and when he can go "all in".


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## mas360 (Nov 21, 2006)

tstorm5 said:


> The airplane security folks seemed to have been as nice as possible until they were forced to not be nice.
> And why didn't all the complaining and distraught whiners in the video step up and help poor Mr. Dao if they were so outraged by what happened?
> I hope United tells this Dao characters lawyers, "We'll see you in court".


You want Munoz to lose his job?


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## Gottagofishin (Dec 17, 2005)

Sugar Land YAK said:


> Are you the same pilot who would post on the Houston community board about how great United was?


Nope. United is terrible, but I live in Houston so I have two main choices. WN and UA. I fly WN whenever they have a non-stop, but I go to a lot of places they don't fly to direct so I'm stuck with UA.

I fly almost every week. Usually to multiple cities. The biggest single problem I run into are people who don't understand how airline travel works, end up making a stink and inconveniencing or delaying the rest of us. The system is not designed to avoid inconveniencing anyone. It is designed to move as many people as possible as fast and secure as possible. Occasionally, someone will be inconvenienced.

I just don't feel sorry for this guy. Even though United and the police could have handled it better than they did, he brought it on himself. I'm sure he'll get a big payout for his bad behavior. That's the part that makes me sick.

In two years, I will hang up my spurs and if I never get on another plane again, it will to soon. Until then, I want to get from point A to point B as quickly as possible, so quit screwing that up for me. :spineyes:


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## Bayscout22 (Aug 9, 2007)

Sugar Land YAK said:


> Nope, just a everyday flier(supporting a family) who has to put up with stupid snowflake sheep while trying to make a living..
> 
> Are you a airline employee as well?


Your hard on for UAL is very clear but that's the only thing coherent about your posts. I'm not sure you understand the current definition of a snowflake. Snowflakes have "an inflated sense of uniqueness" and entitlement. It seems to me the only snowflake in the situation is the good doctor.

I'll just go on record as saying when citizens don't comply with orders from law enforcement I'm ok with whatever comes next. Beat downs, drag offs, bullets. I'm good. How is the good doctor any different than poor old Mike Brown in Ferguson?


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## cman (Apr 17, 2009)

Uh. Because Mike Brown was a thief who later assaulted then charged the officer.


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## TranTheMan (Aug 17, 2009)

cman said:


> Uh. Because Mike Brown was a thief who later assaulted then charged the officer.


LOL. The difference is a big as the Grand Canyon.


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## Sugar Land YAK (Jun 19, 2004)

Bayscout22 said:


> Your hard on for UAL is very clear but that's the only thing coherent about your posts. I'm not sure you understand the current definition of a snowflake. Snowflakes have "an inflated sense of uniqueness" and entitlement. It seems to me the only snowflake in the situation is the good doctor.
> 
> I'll just go on record as saying when citizens don't comply with orders from law enforcement I'm ok with whatever comes next. Beat downs, drag offs, bullets. I'm good. How is the good doctor any different than poor old Mike Brown in Ferguson?


Hmmm, really. United is unique because they thought they had more rights than another human.

They tried to pull a fast one because they had never been challenged and this guy told them to take it and shove it.

1) The flight was not overbook
2) A employee thought he was better than a paying passenger.
3) Another employee didn't perform their job, which was to understand the guidelines of their duties.

2 & 3 Sounds like snowflakes to me...

Not sure how old Mike Brown got in this conversation but he was a snowflake too


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## Empty Pockets CC (Feb 18, 2009)




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## 47741 (Jan 5, 2010)

Maybe I missed it here, but what about the reports that this doctor actually assaulted the police? The video shows little, and is not the whole story


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## HoustonKid (Dec 29, 2005)

I have yet to see a video of him assaulting the cops. Maybe he did to get back on the plane. Looks like he just took a good old dragging on the plane. Oh, and a broken nose and a concussion.


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

HoustonKid said:


> I have yet to see a video of him assaulting the cops. Maybe he did to get back on the plane. Looks like he just took a good old dragging on the plane. Oh, and a broken nose and a concussion.


He was obviously guilty of aggravated screaming.


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## 47741 (Jan 5, 2010)

It seems unlikely that the whole story, start to finish, was captured on video. When does that ever happen?


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## cman (Apr 17, 2009)

Someone called this early in this discussion. Oh yeah, that was me. 
Here's the first. I know it won't be the last of law suits likely inspired by the Dr. Dao fiasco.

http://nypost.com/2017/04/15/former-beauty-queen-was-roughed-up-on-united-flight-suit/


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## Sugar Land YAK (Jun 19, 2004)

cman said:


> Someone called this early in this discussion. Oh yeah, that was me.
> 
> Here's the first. I know it won't be the last of law suits likely inspired by the Dr. Dao fiasco.
> 
> http://nypost.com/2017/04/15/former-beauty-queen-was-roughed-up-on-united-flight-suit/


Better be careful posting that you have posted on this thread before, might get accused of being mean to United...


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## TranTheMan (Aug 17, 2009)

*Big win for UA*

Pentagon just awarded UA a contract to remove Assad of Syria after their successful test run on dr. Dao.


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## w_r_ranch (Jan 14, 2005)

Another 'incident', this time in Houston... This must be a really screwed up airlines.

* Bride and groom on way to wedding booted off United flight *


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## tstorm5 (Aug 27, 2009)

I have to believe there are two sides to that story.


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## Spirit (Nov 19, 2008)

w_r_ranch said:


> Another 'incident', this time in Houston... This must be a really screwed up airlines.
> 
> * Bride and groom on way to wedding booted off United flight *


They refused to sit in their seats and demanded an upgrade. Glad to see them booted. Passengers like them and the good doctor think that the only purpose, you, I and the rest of the world exists is to bow down and kiss their rears. Kudos to those who show them they are NOT on this earth to be treated like delicate, hot house flowers. The sense of entitlement of these two and the doc are beyond the pale.


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## sotexhookset (Jun 4, 2011)

Sounds like a couple of entitleed pieces of garbage. Always two sides but I'd bet these losers are just a couple of attention whores out for their fifteen and a payday.


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## TranTheMan (Aug 17, 2009)

sotexhookset said:


> Sounds like a couple of entitleed pieces of garbage. Always two sides but I'd bet these losers are just a couple of attention whores out for their fifteen and a payday.


Not very bright to air their story and glad to see they were booted. No excuses.


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## LaddH (Sep 29, 2011)

It is really easy. Sit in your assigned seat. If someone else is in your seat tell the flight attendant to sort it out or ask whoever is in your seat to check their boarding pass. 
After everyone is seated and you want to change seats ask the f.a. if it is OK to move. If you want to sit in an economy plus seat you will be asked to pay for it. It is not rocket surgery. Those two sound like losers. I hope UA lost their luggage.


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## w_r_ranch (Jan 14, 2005)

I think the flight attendent should have cleared their seat when informed of the situation, after all, it's part of their job.

The story also said that they tried to upgrade prior & were refused inspite of the flight being half full...


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## ChuChu (Jan 23, 2010)

Sure a lot of convictions based on the news media that everyone says are just full of lies and false news.


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## LaddH (Sep 29, 2011)

w_r_ranch said:


> I think the flight attendent should have cleared their seat when informed of the situation, after all, it's part of their job.
> 
> The story also said that they tried to upgrade prior & were refused inspite of the flight being half full...


It said they asked to be upgraded it did not say they offered to pay for the upgrade. They were fishing for a freebie it seems like.


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## w_r_ranch (Jan 14, 2005)

Ladd, what do you base your assumption Ã²n??? Certainly nothing in the article...


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## Bozo (Jun 16, 2004)

These people come across as the same type of person that would pack this alarm clock in their carryon luggage and then complain that they were singled out at the security counter and searched.


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## ChuChu (Jan 23, 2010)

United strikes again.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...king-our-daughter_us_58f4adade4b01566972250cf


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## LaddH (Sep 29, 2011)

w_r_ranch said:


> Ladd, what do you base your assumption Ã²n??? Certainly nothing in the article...


From The New York Post. According to United

â€œThe passengers were ticketed in Economy and attempted to move up to Economy Plus. They were offered the opportunity to pay the difference in fare, they declined, and would not follow crew member instructions to return to their assigned seats,â€ spokeswoman Maggie Schmerin said.


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## tstorm5 (Aug 27, 2009)

LaddH said:


> From The New York Post. According to United
> 
> â€œThe passengers were ticketed in Economy and attempted to move up to Economy Plus. They were offered the opportunity to pay the difference in fare, they declined, and would not follow crew member instructions to return to their assigned seats,â€ spokeswoman Maggie Schmerin said.


Another story with two sides. Imagine that.


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## TranTheMan (Aug 17, 2009)

ChuChu said:


> United strikes again.
> 
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...king-our-daughter_us_58f4adade4b01566972250cf


Central America countries have accused the US of trafficking children for adoption for years so perhaps this was why it happened. I think UA had to report it as a due diligence.

A few years back, my friends (Asian) took his 8 year old son to Costa Rica for a vacation, on the way back when checking in at the airport security, they were asked the routine questions and their boy replied in Spanish. The kid has gone to school in Houston with a Spanish "immersion" program and was quite fluent. Immediately the security there separated the boy from his parents to query him and parents separately. They suspected the couple of child trafficking because the parents did not speak Spanish while their son did. After and hour or so, all were back together, but that was a real scare for my friends. They laughed at that incident now, but I could imagine the panic and upset that they went through.


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## Lexy1 (Jul 12, 2012)

Dang, it looks like 2017 is not a good year for UA. There will be a lot of law suits start popping.


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## 47741 (Jan 5, 2010)

ChuChu said:


> United strikes again.
> 
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...king-our-daughter_us_58f4adade4b01566972250cf


Are you really that stupid?


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## ChuChu (Jan 23, 2010)

SaltyTX said:


> Are you really that stupid?


No, but obviously you are.


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## tstorm5 (Aug 27, 2009)

I bet the other Airlines are sending thank you letters to UAL for taking all the heat of them.


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## ChuChu (Jan 23, 2010)

Air Canada is facing the heat for bumping a 10 years old boy. But they have apologised and are making a sizeable offer of settlement.


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## Sugar Land YAK (Jun 19, 2004)

tstorm5 said:


> I bet the other Airlines are sending thank you letters to UAL for taking all the heat of them.


Yep, and Delta up the amount they will pay for bump flights to nearly 9k (I think).


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## tstorm5 (Aug 27, 2009)

1970's Airline passengers









Modern day airline passengers









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## tstorm5 (Aug 27, 2009)

I think we found the problem. People have become king sized ****holes.


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## boom! (Jul 10, 2004)

Doesn't look over booked to me.


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## tstorm5 (Aug 27, 2009)

It was before the friendly passengers voluntarily left to make room for the crew members needing a ride.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## cman (Apr 17, 2009)

Enviable legroom there. 
I should sue for flight attendants whose rumps brush me every time they try to squeeze down the tiny isle.


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## fishingcacher (Mar 29, 2008)

I remember flying on a nearly empty Continental L-1011 from Houston to Los Angeles. The plane had a lounge in the middle of the plane with a singer and video games.


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## w_r_ranch (Jan 14, 2005)

cman said:


> I should sue for flight attendants whose rumps brush me every time they try to squeeze down the tiny isle.


In the good old days, airlines only hired young, attractive, physically fit females (with manners) & their uniforms were professional to represent them. Nowadays, they hire fat slobs that are almost all ill-mannered gender-challenged, that could care less about their customers.

There a still some professional airlines in the world, but none of them here. Aeromexico, Virgin, KLM, Lufthansa, Russia & all of the Asian airlines for example...


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## TranTheMan (Aug 17, 2009)

w_r_ranch said:


> In the good old days, airlines only hired young, attractive, physically fit females (with manners) & their uniforms were professional to represent them.


Well, actually now airlines still hire young, attractive flight attendants -- simply just book on any Asian airlines.


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## tstorm5 (Aug 27, 2009)

Truthfully back in the early days the scummy people with no manners couldn't afford to fly and took a greyhound bus. Now days any subhuman can get on an airplane and turn it into a nightmare for everyone else And especially for those seated next to them.


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## EddieL (Feb 3, 2011)

I think this Southwest pilot just about sums up the staffing problems with US carriers.






For me, there is a difference when being politely asked to follow an order by an attractive, petite flight attendant on (insert most, not all, foreign) airlines, or being ordered to do it by some entitled queer or some fatty with an attitude on a United/Delta/Southwest flight.

Maybe not PC, but truth is truth.


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## tstorm5 (Aug 27, 2009)

The story is, He got fired for that rant and if true, he deserved it.


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## ChuChu (Jan 23, 2010)

United Airlines Is Now Asking Passengers at Check-In If Theyâ€™re OK Being Bumped for $200

https://www.yahoo.com/news/united-airlines-now-asking-passengers-200426898.html


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## mas360 (Nov 21, 2006)

In the meantime Delta up their bump fee to 10K. It's a no brainer to go Delta.


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## POC Fishin' Gal (Nov 20, 2009)

So now it just gets stupid-people making reservations just to get bumped. Nutty world we live in..........Just flew SWA to Newport,Ca , all good, except to make us pay for priority boarding . Flew back from Palm Springs on American, ok flight, (had to pay for a seat from Dallas to Austin so we could sit together), just like everything about SWA and Jet Blue better than the other domestic airlines. Flew Swiss Air to Europe a couple of years ago, was better than our airlines, not great either IMO. I guess I like Jet Blue the best of all I've flown in the last 5 years.


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## cman (Apr 17, 2009)

Epidemic.



> https://gma.yahoo.com/american-airl...-captured-073006084--abc-news-topstories.html


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## mas360 (Nov 21, 2006)

POC Fishin' Gal said:


> So now it just gets stupid-*people making reservations just to get bumped*. Nutty world we live in..........Just flew SWA to Newport,Ca , all good, except to make us pay for priority boarding . Flew back from Palm Springs on American, ok flight, (had to pay for a seat from Dallas to Austin so we could sit together), just like everything about SWA and Jet Blue better than the other domestic airlines. Flew Swiss Air to Europe a couple of years ago, was better than our airlines, not great either IMO. I guess I like Jet Blue the best of all I've flown in the last 5 years.


It is more or less a clever marketing move. Delta has less than 1% in bumping passengers off flights. Even if they do, someone will take the bid long before it gets to 10K. I know I'll take it at 1.5K if I am not in a hurry.

It is a great ad to show their clientel base that Delta stands a mile above others and you can feel secure flying with Delta.


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## TheGoose (Jan 22, 2006)

Ran across this old thread and wanted to see if there were any updates.

Of note: 
-UA and Dr. Dao settled in April 2017 for an undisclosed amount. Since they settled so quickly I'm thinking either UA had a lot of dirt on Dao and paid him little or paid him a lot to shut him up. One report https://www.inc.com/peter-economy/r...s-flight-now-an-officer-is-suing-airline.html had him settling for $140 MM but I doubt it was that high. I'd say he probably got $5MM after lawyer fees.

-On June 29, 2017, the Illinois Law Enforcement Training and Standards Board decertified the Chicago Department of Aviation Police, stating the agency is "in no way" a police agency. They are considered security, and going forward, the Chicago Police Department will be the primary responders to all airport disturbance calls. The union representing the 300 officer department, SEIU local 73, challenged the downgrade from police to security in an unfair labor practices complaint.[55]

Following a review prompted by this incident, in July 2017 the Chicago Department of Aviation reported that their non-sworn, unarmed airport security personnel were not actually police officers under Illinois law. Their uniforms, badges, and vehicles had been "improperly" labeled "police" due to historical reasons. It promised that the incorrect insignia would be removed within months.[56]

-City Inspector General Joseph Ferguson launched an investigation shortly after the incident. The Office of Inspector General (OIG) released their findings on October 17, 2017, in their Third Quarter 2017 report. The investigation established that three Chicago Department of Aviation (CDA) Aviation Security Officers (ASOs) and one Aviation Security Sergeant violated City of Chicago Personnel Rules. Specifically:

The first ASO (James Long) violated the CDA Use of Force Policy when he escalated a non-threatening situation into a physically violent one. Long's use of excessive force caused the passenger to hit his face on an armrest, resulting in the passenger sustaining a concussion, a broken nose, and the loss of two teeth.
The second ASO (Mauricio Rodriguez Jr.) made misleading statements in two reports and the third ASO (Steven Smith) made material omissions in a report regarding the first ASO's forceful removal of the passenger from the aircraft.
The Sergeant (John Moore) deliberately removed material facts from the third ASO's "To/From Report" and approved reports without all essential information.
In response to the OIG Report, CDA discharged Long and Moore, and issued five-day suspensions to Rodriguez and Smith.

-UA Stock rebounded and is now trading in the $90 range but it took almost a year to do so. FYI it was trading in the ~$70 range when the incident happened.

-Oscar Munoz is still CEO.


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## TaylorCounty (Apr 24, 2019)

Not everyone has the money to fly other than coach.


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## JJGold1 (May 6, 2010)

TheGoose said:


> Ran across this old thread and wanted to see if there were any updates.
> 
> Of note:
> -UA and Dr. Dao settled in April 2017 for an undisclosed amount. Since they settled so quickly I'm thinking either UA had a lot of dirt on Dao and paid him little or paid him a lot to shut him up. One report https://www.inc.com/peter-economy/r...s-flight-now-an-officer-is-suing-airline.html had him settling for $140 MM but I doubt it was that high. I'd say he probably got $5MM after lawyer fees.
> ...


What's the point in reviving a 2 year old thread? You obviously have an axe to grind with United. Back in the good old days you would have been sent to camp.


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## TheGoose (Jan 22, 2006)

Actually I think United did mostly nothing wrong and I think Dr. Dao was mostly in the wrong, but thanks for putting words in my mouth. I was just looking through some old posts and came across this one. I thought it'd be fun to update the thread for old times sake. I'm pretty sure that reviving old posts doesn't qualify one for "banned camp" so whatever.


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