# ATTN anyone with a good waterfowl retriever in the S. Houston area.



## plgorman (Jan 10, 2008)

Im in a bit of a jam. my pup (almost 9 months, black lab male) has impressed me this last 9 months while following the fowldogs training program. We're in the middle of force fetch right now. Prob about 1/2 way through. He LOVES water but wont get in past about neck deep. He just doesnt know that he has webbed feet and the ability to swim! I've tried just about everything I can on my own. And it was suggested to me to find a hard charging swimmer to pair up with for a session or two to show him that its ok to get wet and swim. If anyone has some free time during the evening (i work 8-5) and/or a small pond nearby and willing to help me out i'll buy you dinner or something. 

I need him to swim before moving on with the force fetch. I've got a bit of time before it absolutely needs to be done but time flies these days. I've got a small retention pond behind my house we work in and a few puddles back there as well. So you can come to me, we can meet somewhere or I can come to you. HELP!!!


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## Spots and Dots (May 23, 2004)

you may want to rethink any other activities during FF. When force fetching, you are not supposed to do anything else. Grab the ear and work............nothing else.


As for swimming, I was lucky and didn;t encounter the problem, but I would try swimming with poochy, or getting in the wter past where he stops and coax him to you.

Whatever you do, do not do the ******* thing and just throw him in the deep end.......you might ruin all you've worked for.


I would finish force fetching and force to the pile before doing anythign else, though.


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## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

x2... get in the water with him.... make him want to come have fun with you.

Make sure the slope of the bottom is very gradual... 

I dont know about combining this with the force fetch training.... I never did the force fetch....


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## plgorman (Jan 10, 2008)

Spots and Dots said:


> you may want to rethink any other activities during FF. When force fetching, you are not supposed to do anything else. Grab the ear and work............nothing else.
> 
> As for swimming, I was lucky and didn;t encounter the problem, but I would try swimming with poochy, or getting in the wter past where he stops and coax him to you.
> 
> ...


Trust me, ive tried getting in the water, today ill prob try throwing in hot dog pieces to see if he will get them.

On the FF topic, you think I shouldnt be doing ANYTHING else? even like nature walks throwing fun bumpers here and there? i've been focusing on FF prob 90% of the time but trying to keep it a bit fun for him during the other 10%. Advice is greatly appreciated. I will not throw him in i know better than that!

I know that I need to get him swimming before starting some of the more advanced FF drills. Ill prob wait now until he proves force to pile.

I'd still like to get him swimming asap though...


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## TxDuSlayer (Jun 24, 2006)

PM sent


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## Brian P. (Feb 1, 2005)

If you want to make the drive to Kingwood some weekend/evening soon, I have a male choc lab that will play swim/fetch until he's so tired, he'll drag his butt out of the water and go lay down somewhere (this will be after about the 20th water retrieve). There is a pond that is walking distance from my house. You are welcome to come up some evening/weekend and see if your pup will follow him.


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## plgorman (Jan 10, 2008)

Thanks Brian, ive got a friend in Kingwood so maybe I can come work the pup then hang out over there afterward. I'm gonna see if I can find someone closer but if not ill def keep you in mind!


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## remi19 (Feb 27, 2008)

Force Fetch that dog first and dont worry about anything else until you are finished. Some dogs dont need to be force fetched but, its better to have it and not need it, then to need it and not have it. you should of worked on water and swimming along time ago. Dont worry, not all it lost. Where about in S houston are you. I have a Lab i cant keep out of the water and willing to give you a hand if i can. Goodluck


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## Levelwind (Apr 15, 2005)

Spots and Dots said:


> Whatever you do, do not do the ******* thing and just throw him in the deep end.......you might ruin all you've worked for.


9 months and won't swim? I don't believe you have much to lose. Throw his arse in deep water and jump in after him. He'll swim. He'll probably do that deal where his front paws come up out the water and he may want to climb on your back - just stay away from him and encourage him.


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## bayourat (Jan 7, 2005)

plgorman said:


> Thanks Brian, ive got a friend in Kingwood so maybe I can come work the pup then hang out over there afterward. I'm gonna see if I can find someone closer but if not ill def keep you in mind!


pm sent.


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## gulfcoast200 (Jun 26, 2004)

I can meet you in Manvel with my Chesapeake puppy he's 5 months old and loves water. I have good pond with flat grade going into the water. There are no gators and I need to get out there to work mine with decoys on the water.


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## Spots and Dots (May 23, 2004)

everything I read, and learned when traqining my pooch said NO fun stuff until FF is over. I would take my boy out to the table every morning and evening and work the ear. He didn't get 1 tennis ball, or bumper until he would pick up and HOLD anythign I told him to.
If you think it sucks for you to not let him have any fun, just think of how much he looks forward to not FFing..........

I would finish FF before moving to anythign. And, if I had it to do over, I would finish forcing to the pile before moving on. I skipped that part, and my dog doesn't handle very well because of it.


just my $0.02. I trained with 2 guys that have 5 master Hunters between them as amatuers.


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## sea sick (Feb 9, 2006)

This issue is more about the dogs confidence. I had a dog that wasnt very sure of himself around water. He ended up loving it. Best thing is to gradually get him deeper. Make it FUN,NO PRESSURE. just like a pup on a leash or a dogs first boat ride. None of the ar use to it for the first time, but gradually come around and enjoy it.
I got my dog to get in deeper water by throwing the bumper a little further and futherin the water. I did it at the beach. nice calm day. I would throw a few in the water, then a few back on the sand. It built his confidence up. He eventually took a swim. Throw the bumper where he just gets his paws wet, then a little deeper. You can tell by his comfort level. head first, stretches his neck out, trying to keep his feet out of the water. Eventualy he's gunna realize the water is ok, not guna hurt him. If he loves to retrieve, he'll eventualy get in. If hes FF properly, he should jump in a pond of puke to get that bumper. Good luck, I'm sure it's gunna work out for him.


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## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

sea sick said:


> This issue is more about the dogs confidence. I had a dog that wasnt very sure of himself around water. He ended up loving it. Best thing is to gradually get him deeper. Make it FUN,NO PRESSURE. just like a pup on a leash or a dogs first boat ride. None of the ar use to it for the first time, but gradually come around and enjoy it.
> I got my dog to get in deeper water by throwing the bumper a little further and futherin the water. I did it at the beach. nice calm day. I would throw a few in the water, then a few back on the sand. It built his confidence up. He eventually took a swim. Throw the bumper where he just gets his paws wet, then a little deeper. You can tell by his comfort level. head first, stretches his neck out, trying to keep his feet out of the water. Eventualy he's gunna realize the water is ok, not guna hurt him. If he loves to retrieve, he'll eventualy get in. If hes FF properly, he should jump in a pond of puke to get that bumper. Good luck, I'm sure it's gunna work out for him.


I dont know if I would recommend doing any initial water training in saltwater.... too much water intake, currents, etc...


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## sea sick (Feb 9, 2006)

Like I said,NICE.CALM DAY. I didn't say out into the surf, chest high, waves crashing and current ripping. Nice calm day. It's a 9mo old dog, not a 3 month old baby. Little salt water wont hurt nuthin. regardless, I think the dog will get past the water phobia.


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## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

"Drinking a lot of salt water may cause sickness because of the bacteria found in it and/or because the high salt content may throw the dog's electrolytes off balance causing nausea and vomiting. In some cases, when too much water is consumed, the dog's sodium levels may rise causing severe dehydration and even death."

The dog is just getting started in swimming.... all it knows is that it drinks water... not to mention its a hundred degrees outside and the dog is gonna wanna drink.


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## remi19 (Feb 27, 2008)

Spots and Dots said:


> everything I read, and learned when traqining my pooch said NO fun stuff until FF is over. I would take my boy out to the table every morning and evening and work the ear. He didn't get 1 tennis ball, or bumper until he would pick up and HOLD anythign I told him to.
> If you think it sucks for you to not let him have any fun, just think of how much he looks forward to not FFing..........
> 
> I would finish FF before moving to anythign. And, if I had it to do over, I would finish forcing to the pile before moving on. I skipped that part, and my dog doesn't handle very well because of it.
> ...


Hit the nail on the head. Stop trying to be a mom to that dog and force fetch him. Spot and dots is 100% true on this. I have trained a few dogs in my day as well, and the ones that preformed the best are the ones that have been force fetched. Pointers labs all the same. I personally hate the ear pinch, I use the toe and a string.

Stop trying to rush this dog into being able to hunt with you opening day, you will regret it. Take your time and do it right. Your decision now will determine the outcome of this dog.

The swimming you can work on later

Look at www.retrievertraining.net they have a good discussion forum there, plenty of pros to answer questions.


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## sea sick (Feb 9, 2006)

justinsfa said:


> "Drinking a lot of salt water may cause sickness because of the bacteria found in it and/or because the high salt content may throw the dog's electrolytes off balance causing nausea and vomiting. In some cases, when too much water is consumed, the dog's sodium levels may rise causing severe dehydration and even death."
> 
> The dog is just getting started in swimming.... all it knows is that it drinks water... not to mention its a hundred degrees outside and the dog is gonna wanna drink.


Do you think that a dog is gonna sit there and drink salt water to the point of death. lol They know it's not good for them, but like I said. Alittle won't hurt.Do you even hunt out in the salt marsh? Dog's drink it all the time. And I'm sure, that anyone with half a brain, would have enuff sense to not train a dog in the middle of the day. I think you're looking way to deep into this. But good info for someone missing the other part of their brain.


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## Spots and Dots (May 23, 2004)

sea sick said:


> Do you think that a dog is gonna sit there and drink salt water to the point of death. lol They know it's not good for them, but like I said. Alittle won't hurt.Do you even hunt out in the salt marsh? Dog's drink it all the time. And I'm sure, that anyone with half a brain, would have enuff sense to not train a dog in the middle of the day. I think you're looking way to deep into this. But good info for someone missing the other part of their brain.


the only time i had my dog in salt water, he drank so much that he *** like a goose for 2 days..............it was like he had a water hose sticking out of his tail.

Not sure if he learned his lesson, but it makes me think twice about taking him in the marsh, then letting him come inside.

The best part was, we were at Sunday Beach, and he hopped up on my buddies brand new boat and squirted all over it.....classic!


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## sea sick (Feb 9, 2006)

Spots and Dots said:


> the only time i had my dog in salt water, he drank so much that he *** like a goose for 2 days..............it was like he had a water hose sticking out of his tail.
> 
> Not sure if he learned his lesson, but it makes me think twice about taking him in the marsh, then letting him come inside.
> 
> The best part was, we were at Sunday Beach, and he hopped up on my buddies brand new boat and squirted all over it.....classic!


Thats funny, kinda like a dog licking a bone with ants all over it. They learn. We've hunted the salt marsh for 20 years with numerous dogs. Never had one die from it. I have never actually heard of a dog die from it myself. I'm sure it has happend. Your dog probably has a better chance dying from getting run over than drinking to much salt water. Hershy squirts maybe, but thats about it.


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## plgorman (Jan 10, 2008)

remi19 said:


> Hit the nail on the head. Stop trying to be a mom to that dog and force fetch him. Spot and dots is 100% true on this. I have trained a few dogs in my day as well, and the ones that preformed the best are the ones that have been force fetched. Pointers labs all the same. I personally hate the ear pinch, I use the toe and a string.
> 
> Stop trying to rush this dog into being able to hunt with you opening day, you will regret it. Take your time and do it right. Your decision now will determine the outcome of this dog.
> 
> ...


Im on that board as well as a few others. Idk where you got the notion that I'm trying to be a 'mom' to the dog, or rush him into hunting this season. If you have read my other threads i've made it pretty clear that im in no rush while training him. Also I AM in the process of FF and about 4 wks along. I've mentioned that I dont plan on hunting him this season and maybe even not taking him along with me this season either.

At any rate, thanks for the advice Remi as well as everyone else, ive recieved a few PMs offering to pair up for a session or two and will be meeting to do so this week. Once again thanks 2cool and especially everyone offering to help!


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## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

sea sick said:


> Do you think that a dog is gonna sit there and drink salt water to the point of death. lol They know it's not good for them, but like I said. Alittle won't hurt.Do you even hunt out in the salt marsh? Dog's drink it all the time. And I'm sure, that anyone with half a brain, would have enuff sense to not train a dog in the middle of the day. I think you're looking way to deep into this. But good info for someone missing the other part of their brain.


Its not about them sitting there and drinking it... its the effect that the salt has on them AFTER the fact... the increased salt dehydrates them. If the dog is in the water, then the dog is drinking the water....

Its 100 degrees outside... you are playing with the dog, throwing bumpers and such... the dog WILL drink the salt water cuz its thirsty...

And how do you plan on gauging how much saltwater that your dog has ingested??? The killer part about salt water is that the sickness happens AFTER the fact, when its essentially too late.

_Salt toxicity can be fatal in dogs and cats. Whether toxicity occurs accidentally or iatrogenically, it is important to recognize the clinical signs of sodium toxicosis, which are mainly caused by hypernatremia and associated cerebral edema. Treatment involves prompt initiation of fluid therapy along with careful monitoring of neurologic status, serum and plasma electrolytes, and serum osmolarity._

_Exercise causes an increase in body water loss through muscle contraction, respiration, and evaporation from the skin surface. The physiologic need to replace the lost body water leads to an increased desire to drink. If appropriate measures to rehydrate your dog with fresh water are not taken, your dog's physiologic water demands may supercede your planned hydration interventions, leading to salt water ingestion._

*The ASPCA Animal Poison Control Center says that average ocean water has 3.5 percent dissolved salts, 90 percent of which is sodium chloride. For a smallish golden like Plum, drinking half a liter of sea water can cause toxicity manifested by vomiting, excessive drinking and urination, fever, tremors, and seizures. (The same syndrome is seen in dogs who ingest homemade kids' play dough, which is made with salt.) The magnesium in the sea water also acts as a laxative, (remember milk of magnesia?) which is why so many pups get the runs after running the beach.

We admitted Plum and gave her medication to stop the muscle tremors, and low-sodium intravenous fluids. Over the night we were able to drop her blood sodium levels down to normal and her symptoms subsided. She went home with strict instructions not to let her go beach-combing by herself. Koufax's owners found me at the Ag Fair dog show a week later. He, too, had made a complete recovery.*

Do I need to keep finding sources for the dangers of saltwater in dogs?

Dogs are just like humans that you hear about on life rafts in the middle of the ocean... The more saltwater you consume, the more water you desire because it dehydrates you...

And yes, I hunt the salt marsh... matter of fact, I live about 100 yards from it... and have for 20 years... Does that mean I pass your partial brain test?


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## sea sick (Feb 9, 2006)

Guess you missunderstood that part of the post.But keep lookin for more facts. Good for some folks. If your training your dog in 100 degree heat your an IDIOT to. Plain an simple. You shouldn't have a dog out training in that type of temp. But like I said, some folks have half a brain.Nice to live so close to the marsh isnt it, I live about 100 yards from it as well.


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## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

*half a liter of sea water can cause toxicity manifested by vomiting, excessive drinking and urination, fever, tremors, and seizures. *

Thats only 240ML, or 8 ounces.... thats not much.... Hell, my dog drinks that much when its 60 degrees outside....

Even in 80 degree heat, Im sure most dogs are gonna down 8 ounces of water with no problem... salt or fresh....

My point is that you have no idea how much saltwater your dog WILL or HAS ingested... but by all means, lets take a chance!!!! Guess your time and money isnt as important to you as it is me...

I hate the heat even more than my dog does, so you wont find me out there in 100 degree weather... Hell, i dont even hunt teal season cuz its too **** hot... Do you? Im not even a fan of September dove season... Are you??? If so, then tisk tisk, cuz you shouldnt be working your dog in 100 degree heat... I will refrain from calling people idiots.... to each their own...

Plus, even if the dog just gets the ****ts, I dont wanna scoop it out of the yard, hose it out of the kennel, or squash it on the bottom of my shoes....

I dont know anybody who has had a dog die from eating chocolate, but that doesnt mean im gonna just let my dog go after a stack of Hershey bars!


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## bayourat (Jan 7, 2005)

justinsfa said:


> *half a liter of sea water can cause toxicity manifested by vomiting, excessive drinking and urination, fever, tremors, and seizures. *
> 
> Thats only 240ML, or 8 ounces.... thats not much.... Hell, my dog drinks that much when its 60 degrees outside....
> 
> ...


I hunt in september AND in saltwater...... does that mean my dogs should be dead already? Just take them plenty of water.... just figure on how much you need for yourself and then take double that amount just for them.


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## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

bayourat said:


> I hunt in september AND in saltwater...... does that mean my dogs should be dead already? Just take them plenty of water.... just figure on how much you need for yourself and then take double that amount just for them.


My initial point was for a puppy not to be introduced to water for the first time and it be SALTwater... they are naturally going to drink it.... they are naturally smaller in size... which is a double whammy against them...

I hunted my dog for years in salt water during teal season and hot *** early season days.... Never had a problem, but I had to make SURE she was properly hydrated... The same goes for regular cooler and cold days too... Dogs cant tell you when they are thirsty.... and drinking the saltwater makes it worse... you have to pretty much make them drink fresh water, that way you KNOW they are ingesting enough fresh water...

The first time the lab I have now hopped in Lanana Creek, she swam around drinking non stop... She was 9 weeks old and 20 feet from me in 6 foot of water... how would I have stopped her from drinking a ton of saltwater in this situation??? well, you wouldnt....

Im no professional dog trainer OR Mr. Cesar Millan, but when studies show that saltwater ingestion is dangerous for dogs, Im not going to take my puppy into the surf for its first water experience...


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## Spots and Dots (May 23, 2004)

dang!

this thread started out asking how to get his dog to swim, and I turned it a little be going off on FF, then it derails into an argument about dogs in salt water.


lololololol


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## remi19 (Feb 27, 2008)

The guy was just giving advice on what worked in how to get the dog to swim. Way to Fork the thread up justinsfa


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## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

Spots and Dots said:


> dang!
> 
> this thread started out asking how to get his dog to swim, and I turned it a little be going off on FF, then it derails into an argument about dogs in salt water.
> 
> lololololol


Which basically means none of us are getting anything productive done at work today.... hahaha

Now, if everybody would just buy CHOCOLATE Labs, you wouldnt have to worry about FF or saltwater... since they are the best and all.... hahaha

Hows that for a catastrophic derailment.... haha


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## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

remi19 said:


> The guy was just giving advice on what worked in how to get the dog to swim. Way to Fork the thread up justinsfa


And all his tips are PERFECT... Gradual introduction and inticing the dog into deeper and deeper water and letting the dog WANT to be swimming...

Except, in my opinion, that the initial introduction to swimming is in saltwater...

If your parents finally got you into the water when you were little and taught you how to swim, and within 30 minutes of getting out of the water, crappp started spewing from your buttt, you got a fever, you had mild seizures, your stomach hurt and you had to go to the dreaded doctor, would you REALLLLY wanna go swimming again???

Thats pretty much why I dont eat the Diablo Fajitas from Tia Marias.... I learned from the one time that I did...

Once the pup gets the hang of the swimming thing, cut it loose and let it try salt water....


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## Hogsticker24 (Oct 7, 2008)

some of yall need a tampon this is funny


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## sea sick (Feb 9, 2006)

justinsfa said:


> My initial point was for a puppy not to be introduced to water for the first time and it be SALTwater... they are naturally going to drink it.... they are naturally smaller in size... which is a double whammy against them...
> 
> I hunted my dog for years in salt water during teal season and hot *** early season days.... Never had a problem, but I had to make SURE she was properly hydrated... The same goes for regular cooler and cold days too... Dogs cant tell you when they are thirsty.... and drinking the saltwater makes it worse... you have to pretty much make them drink fresh water, that way you KNOW they are ingesting enough fresh water...
> 
> ...


Its not the dogs FIRST time in water justin. Its 9 months old, not 9 weeks. he said the dog doesnt swim. Ithink hes been introduced to water, just doesn't want to swim. And no, i dont hunt my dog for the beggining of dove season if it's to hot. yes, i do teal hunt, the water cools her down. Marsh or the rice field. I'm sure your good with your dogs, and can tell the sighs of to much heat exposure.

Think I'll go have me a tall glass of salt water and a hershy bar.


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## sea sick (Feb 9, 2006)

plgorman said:


> Im in a bit of a jam. my pup (almost 9 months, black lab male) has impressed me this last 9 months while following the fowldogs training program. We're in the middle of force fetch right now. Prob about 1/2 way through. He *LOVES *water but wont get in past about neck deep. He just doesnt know that he has webbed feet and the ability to swim! I've tried just about everything I can on my own. And it was suggested to me to find a hard charging swimmer to pair up with for a session or two to show him that its ok to get wet and swim. If anyone has some free time during the evening (i work 8-5) and/or a small pond nearby and willing to help me out i'll buy you dinner or something.
> 
> I need him to swim before moving on with the force fetch. I've got a bit of time before it absolutely needs to be done but time flies these days. I've got a small retention pond behind my house we work in and a few puddles back there as well. So you can come to me, we can meet somewhere or I can come to you. HELP!!!


Yep, he's been in it.Just doesn't want to swim in it. Just givn ya an idea on breakin the dog from it's fobia plgorman. Get the dogs mind off the water and onto the bumper. Keep it fun. He'll eventually take the plunge. No worries.


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## Swamp Root (May 12, 2009)

Honestly I think you may be wasting your time with the other dog theory, but if it works, thats GREAT!... In my opinion, (AND THIS IS ONLY AFTER YOU HAVE TRIED TO COAX THE DOG INTO THE WATER MULTIPLE TIMES) you should find a pool or a body of water that has a straight drop off right from the edge, throw a dummy, and see what happens... more than likely he will just run around the edge whinning... so just walk up behind him as he hovers over the edge and gently nudge him into the water with your foot. I'm not saying grab him by the collar and tail and chunk him in, (cause I have done that and it doesn't work out too well) but just gently nudge him... like oops... chances are he won't even know you did it. I did this to mine when he was like 6 months old (which is way too late, I should have got him in the water at like 3 months), he hit the water and I ran to the shallow edge and called him to me. I repeated this a couple more times until he eventually just got comfortable with jumping in on his own. Your dog is 9months old, so he has, and has had the neccessary skills and smarts to take care of himself once he's in the water... he just doesn't know it yet... he's not going to drown, but be ready just in case something happens. 

Maybe you should leave this as your last option if it doesn't suit you, I don't know you or your expectations from your dog, but I do know that these dogs are maid to retrieve in water! This is the simplest solution I can give you. Good luck and let us know how it turns out!


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## Swamp Root (May 12, 2009)

BTW Justin, that is some excellent advice for people who are training a pup... mine was trained in a fresh water pond and always drank water when he retreived... theres just no way to stop them when they are 50 to 100 yards from you. On mines second hunt last season I forgot to bring him some water or gatorade, so he decided to drink about a gallon of the saltiest water imagineable (this marsh was basically beach water because it was flooded by IKE), I couldn't stop him! About an hour later he looked as if he had a pressure washer up his *****. Dude, it got all in the floor of my boat, all in the blind haha... not good... he ended up throwing up for a couple days. I am pretty sure he has learned his lesson haha!


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## Spots and Dots (May 23, 2004)

justinsfa said:


> Which basically means none of us are getting anything productive done at work today.... hahaha
> 
> Now, if everybody would just buy CHOCOLATE Labs, you wouldnt have to worry about FF or saltwater... since they are the best and all.... hahaha
> 
> Hows that for a catastrophic derailment.... haha


I gotta agree with ya on the Chocolates!


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## plgorman (Jan 10, 2008)

this thread is becoming racist...


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## SmackDown73 (Jul 20, 2009)

I have one lab that is a Master Hunter and another one that is in MI. getting trained right now.Both dogs were swimming and fetching at about 14 weeks.I might be a little concerned that a lab at 9 months does not want to swim.I hope it works out but if it does not you might want to try and get a well breed dog.Bye the way salt water will make a dog sick.I guide in the salt marsh and every time my dog drinks it she gets sick.


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## plgorman (Jan 10, 2008)

I'm sure it wont be a problem we cant fix. My cousin and another dude both have well trained dogs (very good handling, marks, very steady). They both said they had the same problem. One said he paired up like im trying to do and my cousin said his dog just snapped one day and went bolting into the water and has never looked back. Both were around my age when the problem was solved.

We dont all have the luxury of paying $1000+ for a dog or sending them out of state for boot camp


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## remi19 (Feb 27, 2008)

SmackDown73 said:


> I have one lab that is a Master Hunter and another one that is in MI. getting trained right now.Both dogs were swimming and fetching at about 14 weeks.I might be a little concerned that a lab at 9 months does not want to swim.I hope it works out but if it does not you might want to try and get a well breed dog.Bye the way salt water will make a dog sick.I guide in the salt marsh and every time my dog drinks it she gets sick.[/quot
> 
> Master hunters don't mean **** when it comes to hunting, I know duck and goose dogs that will run circles around hunt test/field trial dogs. Who said his dog wasn't well breed dog.


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## Fubar (Jun 10, 2005)

might sound weird, but my Catahoula was the same way. I got in with him and put a dog life-vest on him. He would swim with me and once he realized how to float and kick it was all over. I can't keep him out of the water, now. 

Also, take him to a puppy park so he can watch the other dogs belly dive in. Mine watched and now it's who can make the biggest belly dive.


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## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

plgorman said:


> I'm sure it wont be a problem we cant fix. My cousin and another dude both have well trained dogs (very good handling, marks, very steady). They both said they had the same problem. One said he paired up like im trying to do and my cousin said his dog just snapped one day and went bolting into the water and has never looked back. Both were around my age when the problem was solved.
> 
> We dont all have the luxury of paying $1000+ for a dog or sending them out of state for boot camp


My roomates yellow was about 8 months old when I bought my chocolate. They played all the time...

When it came to the water, mine had no problems... she dove right in and never looked back... she was a natural from the start.... His on the other hand, was not a fan of the water... my pup would hit the water wide open tripping over her paws and such and his would just stay at the waters edge, then ease in and make all kinds of racket when it finally got deep enough to swim... Butt down, Paws up...

It never did get the hang of swimming... It got to wear it would get in the water, but just never got the form down....

That was 7 years ago... his dog still does the same exact thing, and mine still hits the water at a million miles an hour...

So im kinda up in the air as to how well the swimming thing is going to go....

I dont think that competition over the bumper would be a bad thing... nothing ****** my dog off more than having to sit there and watch another dog retrieve a bumper... she hates it.... If I let her go, she will kill herself to get to it first.... She has literally injured herself twice (bruised hip, then broken tail) trying to get to a bird first... Once was a suicide dive off a 15 foot creek embankment up on Lake Fork Creek.

I dont think it would hurt to have your dog be exposed to a good swimming dog... I wish you the best of luck...

If all else fails and your dog still has trouble, get it in a swimming pool and swim around with it like you would a child...

Once they get the hang of it, its like riding a bike....


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## TheSampsonator (Jan 7, 2008)

SmackDown73 said:


> I have one lab that is a Master Hunter and another one that is in MI.


Oh yeah? Well I've got a pound-pup, rescue lab, that'll out work sissified field-trial retrievers all day! Those AKC labels don't mean ****! :an6:


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## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

PS... I trained my own with good ol fashioned WATER DOG...

I wish I would have stuck with the complete plan though.... She does a few whistle commands, but college is not the time to buy a puppy... not enough time to devote to them...

I have a retriever, just not a suped up power hunter.... She doesnt break on the shot or anything.... she just doesnt do hand signals...

But hell, Coco in some of my album pics has NEVER had any training... no sit, stay, nothing...

Few bumpers here and there after he was 4 years old.... and I must say, that is the BEST dog I have ever hunted... calm and focused.... He was just a lab that hung around the camp ground.... One of my buddies took him hunting with us just for ****ts and giggles and he just had the instinct... The owner just lets us use him whenever we are up there so we dont have to cart our dogs all over... Doesnt break on the shot... sits still like a rock for hours.... He wont do blinds or anything, but man is he a sight to see.... I would tell you about him whining when he swims, but nobody would believe me til they see it in person.... Im not kidding when I say this dog KNOWS what kind of bird is on the water... of all the birds we kill, he only whines when a greenhead is down... its the strangest and most random thing ever... And when I say whines, I mean like a scalded banshee... He is 8 years old and has only been hunting for 4 years....


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## sea sick (Feb 9, 2006)

justinsfa said:


> PS... I trained my own with good ol fashioned WATER DOG...
> 
> I wish I would have stuck with the complete plan though.... She does a few whistle commands, but college is not the time to buy a puppy... not enough time to devote to them...
> 
> ...


I hunted a dog that whinned like that. It was just rediculous. Almost embarrasing. People thought I was shocking him on the way out there. It's nice to hunt over a good dog. Nuthn ruins a hunt like a guy yellin and beatin on his dog while in the field. And it amazes me to hear how people think they have the best dogs ever, and they are complete biscuit hounds lol Makes you laff somtimes.


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## TXDRAKE (Jun 24, 2004)

Plgorman,

IMHO and I know you have had a few on here, is to finish his FF and then move to the water. As far as FFing you need to be either 100% on it or not doing it, you can't be in-between on that subject. They need to be completely focused during that training aspect. 

On another note, if your dog is not swimming at 9 months then you might be in for a hard time trying to get him accustomed to it (not impossible, but tough). Then again I have seen dogs that were not comfortable at all with getting in deep water and then one day it was like a light switch was turned on and you couldnt keep them out of the deep water. It will help to have another dog for him to watch to help him get the concept. There are alot of differing opinons on the subject, as you can tell! Some people coax the dog with treats, some nudge or push the dog into deeper water, some swim with them, some use other dogs to help your dog learn, and usually it all comes back to the dog. Sometimes they get there water legs and then sometimes they just dont and never do. 

I think (again this is my personal opinon), I would trying using several dogs that swim and get your pup out there with them. You might be surprised as several dogs swim after a bumper to get to it first. He/She usually can't stand to be left on the bank watching and then the prey drive kicks in and he/she will just do it. Again, some dogs just never get it. Pups should be swimming at an early age or at least be familiar with the concept by an early age. Some dogs, while swimming at an early age usually dont have the best swimming technique but they get better and better at it. 

On another note, if you get several dogs out there swimming at once, you will probably have to reinforce your steady/honor or may have to go back and redo the whole thing as you can't usually have both. You need to get him/her through with FF and then go straight to swimming before anything else and go back to work on the other stuff. Because, if the dog wont swim then all the other training is going to be for nothing, unless your going to use him/her for upland or dove hunting.

If all else fails you need to get with a pro and spend a bit of money and let him/her take a stab at it (this is probably the way I would go before trying all the other recommendations, again just my opinion). They usually have a way of working out the wrinkles in your training! If you want the best for your dog then give him/her every opportunity to achieve! 

The only other advice I will give you, is to not let a dog that is learning to swim, wear a collar. The reason being is that while a dog is getting his/her water legs they tend to pull their front legs out of the water (as if trying to climb out if it) and their have been instances of dogs drowning due to getting one of their front legs stuck in the collar. I have seen it and its not good and those I have seen do it were actually at trials.

I do wish you all the luck in the world and let us know how it comes out.


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## jwpric (Aug 9, 2007)

I highly doubt a pound pup can outwork a Field Champion or Grand Hunting Retriever. I have seen dogs with little to no hunting background turnout to be decent hunting dogs but nothing that can even come close to the same level as these dogs. A Grand Hunting Retriever Champion can do 250 yard blinds, quarter and steady to flush quail or pheasant, pick up quad marks, diversions, basically do everthing but clean your birds. If your pound pup can do that, than I tip my hat to you sir.


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## remi19 (Feb 27, 2008)

jwpric said:


> I highly doubt a pound pup can outwork a Field Champion or Grand Hunting Retriever. I have seen dogs with little to no hunting background turnout to be decent hunting dogs but nothing that can even come close to the same level as these dogs. A Grand Hunting Retriever Champion can do 250 yard blinds, quarter and steady to flush quail or pheasant, pick up quad marks, diversions, basically do everthing but clean your birds. If your pound pup can do that, than I tip my hat to you sir.


 I have a close family member that has a pound pup that is now AKC certified and ranked among the 10 top dogs in the USA for agility. So dont tell me pound dogs can compete with others, better breed dogs. You one of those guys that brag about the background of your pup and how expensive it was cause you ate ramon noodles for the next two weeks until you got paid,B/c that dog took every last dime you had.

If your dog is doing 250 yard blinds and is a grand champion then the judge that past him must have been on crack or the trial had a poor turn out.

I would like to see your "grand Champion" work a goose hunt where we shoot 100 plus birds. I gaurantee you that dog cant hang. All birds that sail past 250 yrds will be lost b/c thats the limit of a Grand Champion is 250.

So tip your hat.....

Plg try the life vest, you can get them a gander mnt. for 20 bucks that may help.

The pot is hot


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## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

remi19 said:


> I have a close family member that has a pound pup that is now AKC certified and ranked among the 10 top dogs in the USA for agility. So dont tell me pound dogs can compete with others, better breed dogs. You one of those guys that brag about the background of your pup and how expensive it was cause you ate ramon noodles for the next two weeks until you got paid,B/c that dog took every last dime you had.
> 
> If your dog is doing 250 yard blinds and is a grand champion then the judge that past him must have been on crack or the trial had a poor turn out.
> 
> ...


Pound puppies arent bad hunting dogs at all, like I said, I hunt behind one every year...

But, I think it would be a stretch to say pound puppies run circles around field trial dogs.... Im sure they make it to the trials and such, but of the top 10 dogs in the USA, I would imagine the other 9 are prolly full papered and well decorated with lengthy blood lines...

The difference between the two is the finished product... i have hunted behind some champion dogs that do AMAZING things...

Helll, my dog was never professionally trained or anything and she has all kinds of papers and such.... she was never formed into a field trial dog because thats not what I was going for... and my ex paid WAAAAY too much for her... but I love her none the less.... the dog that is, hahaha

In short, to add to the pot stirrage, the finished champion hunting dog is going to perform better than a regular old dog... AS LONG as it has the drive... Now, I have a buddy that has ribbons hanging all over the place, but I cant stand hunting behind it cuz it doesnt have the drive... it just does what it is told.... I dont even know if he likes hunting... haha


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## plgorman (Jan 10, 2008)

A dedicated hunt test dog and a dedicated, well trained waterfowl retriever belonging to a hardcore waterfowl hunter are two different animals.

Most of the time


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## jwpric (Aug 9, 2007)

remi19 said:


> I have a close family member that has a pound pup that is now AKC certified and ranked among the 10 top dogs in the USA for agility. So dont tell me pound dogs can compete with others, better breed dogs. You one of those guys that brag about the background of your pup and how expensive it was cause you ate ramon noodles for the next two weeks until you got paid,B/c that dog took every last dime you had.
> 
> If your dog is doing 250 yard blinds and is a grand champion then the judge that past him must have been on crack or the trial had a poor turn out.
> 
> ...


Remi19,

I am not talking about agility, if your dog can jump threw hoops of fire and do backflip while catching a frisbee midair, than PM me I think we can make some mony off of that. I am talking about hunting and hunting competion. I am merley stating an observation, but if a pound pup can win a Field Trial or become a GHRC, than great. It appears to me that you have never attended nor competed in a Field Trial or Hunt Test. Also, it seems you are implying that a dog who can do 250 yard or longer blinds over land/water combinations, threw heavy brush in freezing condtions is just your average dog. I am highly insultated that you show total lack of respect not only for my dog, who you have never seen work, but also to all of the great dogs, pound pup or not, their owners and their trainers who have put in countless hours of hard work to get that dog to its highest level. If you would like I will gladly accompany you to the field this year for few hunts so my dog can defend his good name that you have tarnished without cause. Do you accept?


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## Spots and Dots (May 23, 2004)

and the pizzin contest has begun.


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## TheSampsonator (Jan 7, 2008)

jwpric said:


> It appears to me that you have never attended nor competed in a Field Trial or Hunt Test.


You just barked up the wrong tree making an assumption like that. The boy's got a hell of a track record when it comes to field trials.


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## bayourat (Jan 7, 2005)

jwpric said:


> Remi19,
> 
> I am not talking about agility, if your dog can jump threw hoops of fire and do backflip while catching a frisbee midair, than PM me I think we can make some mony off of that. I am talking about hunting and hunting competion. I am merley stating an observation, but if a pound pup can win a Field Trial or become a GHRC, than great. It appears to me that you have never attended nor competed in a Field Trial or Hunt Test. Also, it seems you are implying that a dog who can do 250 yard or longer blinds over land/water combinations, threw heavy brush in freezing condtions is just your average dog. I am highly insultated that you show total lack of respect not only for my dog, who you have never seen work, but also to all of the great dogs, pound pup or not, their owners and their trainers who have put in countless hours of hard work to get that dog to its highest level. If you would like I will gladly accompany you to the field this year for few hunts so my dog can defend his good name that you have tarnished without cause. Do you accept?


Bottom line is either a dog has the drive to do it or not. You can train all you want... just some dogs can and will do more than others because they have more drive than a dog that has been prof. trained for 3 years with no drive.


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## Mojo281 (Sep 7, 2006)

PM sent, I live really close...


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## remi19 (Feb 27, 2008)

jwpric said:


> Remi19,
> 
> I am not talking about agility, if your dog can jump threw hoops of fire and do backflip while catching a frisbee midair, than PM me I think we can make some mony off of that. I am talking about hunting and hunting competion. I am merley stating an observation, but if a pound pup can win a Field Trial or become a GHRC, than great. It appears to me that you have never attended nor competed in a Field Trial or Hunt Test. Also, it seems you are implying that a dog who can do 250 yard or longer blinds over land/water combinations, threw heavy brush in freezing condtions is just your average dog. I am highly insultated that you show total lack of respect not only for my dog, who you have never seen work, but also to all of the great dogs, pound pup or not, their owners and their trainers who have put in countless hours of hard work to get that dog to its highest level. If you would like I will gladly accompany you to the field this year for few hunts so my dog can defend his good name that you have tarnished without cause. Do you accept?


First of all, your the one that said pound dogs cant compete? correct? or they are not as good? I was simply stating that i know one that can prove you wrong. Your the one that got on here bragging about your dog which none of us has seen, in a thread that asked for help in getting a dog into the water, whos the big headed arrogant pric? So dont tell me about training dogs, or field trials. Your the type of guy i listen to after the trial is over cry about why your dog didnt pass or qualify. You are more than welcome to come hunting with me and i will show you the differnce between a gun dog and a field trial dog. All i am saying is there is a difference. So for the future dont get on here and start bragging about how bad *** your dog is. B/c no one gives a ****


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## bayourat (Jan 7, 2005)

remi19 said:


> First of all, your the one that said pound dogs cant compete? correct? or they are not as good? I was simply stating that i know one that can prove you wrong. Your the one that got on here bragging about your dog which none of us has seen, in a thread that asked for help in getting a dog into the water, whos the big headed arrogant pric? So dont tell me about training dogs, or field trials. Your the type of guy i listen to after the trial is over cry about why your dog didnt pass or qualify. You are more than welcome to come hunting with me and i will show you the differnce between a gun dog and a field trial dog. All i am saying is there is a difference. So for the future dont get on here and start bragging about how bad *** your dog is. B/c no one gives a ****


Give me the gun/meat dog over a field trial only dog.

yes, I have hunted with both.


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## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

bayourat said:


> Bottom line is either a dog has the drive to do it or not. You can train all you want... just some dogs can and will do more than others because they have more drive than a dog that has been prof. trained for 3 years with no drive.


Yep... thats the bottom line.... hunt with enough dogs with different training backgrounds and its easy to see...

A robot dog gets the job done... and usually very well... A normal experienced gun dog does it cuz it lives for it and usually does very well.... but a robot dog that ALSO has drive?? Now that, my friends, is one of the most desired sights in waterfowling....

I have been blessed to see it on a handful of occasions and its unbelievable...


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## jwpric (Aug 9, 2007)

remi19 said:


> First of all, your the one that said pound dogs cant compete? correct? or they are not as good? I was simply stating that i know one that can prove you wrong. Your the one that got on here bragging about your dog which none of us has seen, in a thread that asked for help in getting a dog into the water, whos the big headed arrogant pric? So dont tell me about training dogs, or field trials. Your the type of guy i listen to after the trial is over cry about why your dog didnt pass or qualify. You are more than welcome to come hunting with me and i will show you the differnce between a gun dog and a field trial dog. All i am saying is there is a difference. So for the future dont get on here and start bragging about how bad *** your dog is. B/c no one gives a ****


Whoa, simmer down now. I never stated that I had the biggest badest dog in the world nor did I mean to come off that way. I was simply stating an opinion. I don't care if the dog has a pedegree or not, just as long as they get the job out in the field. Like I said, if you have dog that has no papers and can do that type of work than great. You are the one who started making false statements about my dog and I don't understand the hostility. Lets continue this debate somewhere else, I will send you a PM. Nobody wants to listen to us bicker.


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## plgorman (Jan 10, 2008)

fellas lets chill out we all have badass dogs except me and hopefully when mine gets over his fear of water I'll join the ranks. I've gotten plenty of offers to help from this thread which is why I like 2cool, lets save the pot stirring for the newbs in the fishing forum that ask questions about sand trout limits, eh?


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## gulfcoast200 (Jun 26, 2004)

Plgorman its all your fault if you would of only bought a Chesapeake this thread never would have started. Just joking, see ya Sunday.


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## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

plgorman said:


> fellas lets chill out we all have badass dogs except me and hopefully when mine gets over his fear of water I'll join the ranks. I've gotten plenty of offers to help from this thread which is why I like 2cool, lets save the pot stirring for the newbs in the fishing forum that ask questions about sand trout limits, eh?


Correction.... my dog licks and drools all over the back glass door when the wind blows hard....

Do you even realize how much the wind blows when you live 100 yards from the water????

And you thought YOU had problems... lol


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## Spots and Dots (May 23, 2004)

one last comment from me.......Plgroman, you may want to get your money back on your lab..........the one is your avatar is a "little off".


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## plgorman (Jan 10, 2008)

Yeah he's been out in the galveston bay complex, I blame it on the PCBs. Dioxins are good for him though


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## bayourat (Jan 7, 2005)

plgorman said:


> Yeah he's been out in the galveston bay complex, I blame it on the PCBs. Dioxins are good for him though


I thought he didn't swim?:slimer:


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## Levelwind (Apr 15, 2005)

Dogs is dogs. Interesting discussion, no need for anyone to go on the attack or get their panties in a wad. Like Bayourat, I've hunted with both highly decorated field trial dogs and "meat dogs". And I have some observations - some of which may be false. 

Bloodlines are important. You can get some great dogs that will do a fantastic job of hunting, from a backyard breeder, or the pound, but you're more likely to get a good (lots of desire, good nose, intelligence) one out of good (read $) bloodlines. 

Training's important too. I've never hunted with a ftc that was uncontolled, or didn't know his business. I've hunted with lots of pound pups and backyard breeder dogs who were controlled and knew their business, too. And a lot that were less than stellar. 

If you get a good dog from any source, spend a lot of time with him/her, and the dog has desire, stamina, and a nose, and you kill a ton of birds over it and don't ruin it through your ignorance, you'll have a dog that can compete in the field with any dog. A dog who has retrieved a LOT of waterfowl figures things out on his own that he won't if all he does is train and run trials or derbies. He'll cue you when birds are coming that you don't see, he'll learn that cripple teal always go to the nearest shoreline and can be picked up after the other birds, he'll learn how to dive for them and remember where all the geese fell in tall rice stubble and get'em all, starting with the longest falls and the cripples and finishing up with dead birds at the edge of the spread. He'll run a shoreline if that's the fastest way to get a bird so that he can get the next one (and it often is). 

Dogs don't learn these things from playing games. Of course 95% never learn them hunting, either, because they simply haven't had enough birds killed over them in a variety of situations. 

On the other hand a FT dog is going to have a certain level of competence that you can depend on. He might not be wonder dog, but he's not going to be a dud, either, if he's a good FT dog. My only hit on them is that sometimes they're TOO wired up, esp. if it's a little slow, or people are missing a lot.


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## bayourat (Jan 7, 2005)

Levelwind said:


> Dogs is dogs. Interesting discussion, no need for anyone to go on the attack or get their panties in a wad. Like Bayourat, I've hunted with both highly decorated field trial dogs and "meat dogs". And I have some observations - some of which may be false.
> 
> Bloodlines are important. You can get some great dogs that will do a fantastic job of hunting, from a backyard breeder, or the pound, but you're more likely to get a good (lots of desire, good nose, intelligence) one out of good (read $) bloodlines.
> 
> ...


My lab pick that up last year at 2 years old.... but i start hunting him when he was 8 months old and he has been on 99% of the duck hunting I have done since and as levelwind knows, we kill just a few birds...... The more retrieves they get the more efficient they will get.


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## oneneo3 (Feb 7, 2008)

Plgorman, If ya'll are going to be in Kingwood working the dogs on some of the evenings, I would love to come out and get my pup wet as well. My lab is very non-aggresive and she enjoys the water... and she could use the practice and excersize. She retrieves and works for us fairly well, but she is no high dollar, highly trained, field trial dog. PM me if ya'll get together.


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## plgorman (Jan 10, 2008)

oneneo3 said:


> Plgorman, If ya'll are going to be in Kingwood working the dogs on some of the evenings, I would love to come out and get my pup wet as well. My lab is very non-aggresive and she enjoys the water... and she could use the practice and excersize. She retrieves and works for us fairly well, but she is no high dollar, highly trained, field trial dog. PM me if ya'll get together.


I'd def hit you up if we were out that way, but thats a looong way. I doubt you want to drive down here to Missouri City anyway! TxDuSlayer is swinging by this afternoon to see what happens. Ol Pete's gonna get wet regardless. Either he's gonna learn to swim or we're both gonna get washed away by this rain along with the pups. Ill let yall know what happens tommorow.


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## Swamp Root (May 12, 2009)

Good luck and let us know how it all turns out!


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## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

plgorman said:


> I'd def hit you up if we were out that way, but thats a looong way. I doubt you want to drive down here to Missouri City anyway! TxDuSlayer is swinging by this afternoon to see what happens. Ol Pete's gonna get wet regardless. Either he's gonna learn to swim or we're both gonna get washed away by this rain along with the pups. Ill let yall know what happens tommorow.


We are rooting for you bud! Let us know tomorrow morning what happens...

Oh, and muchos gracias for the info on the gun painting/camo job....


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## dwhite (Jul 11, 2007)

I have all the ponds you could ever want to work in plgorman...hit me up via pm if ya want, i have three hard charging dogs and we can take'em out when youre ready...dont think i will be around this weekend though.


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## bayourat (Jan 7, 2005)

dwhite said:


> I have all the ponds you could ever want to work in plgorman...hit me up via pm if ya want, i have three hard charging dogs and we can take'em out when youre ready...dont think i will be around this weekend though.


You have ponds without gators in danbury?


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## plgorman (Jan 10, 2008)

justinsfa said:


> We are rooting for you bud! Let us know tomorrow morning what happens...
> 
> Oh, and muchos gracias for the info on the gun painting/camo job....


Did you check out that link. I thought it was impressive for how simple it was. PM if you want pics of the other ones I've done and my own.

Results from yesterday...

TxDuSlayer came out yesterday and we worked in a pond behind my house. We started out letting Pete and Lacy get familiar with each other then threw some dummies and dokkens out. He went in a bit further, REALLY wanted to dive in (never acted like that before) but just wouldnt do it. Tried to get him to follow her out after she was sent. Tried throwing short marks and extending them out to deeper water. It just didnt work yesterday. Thanks very much to TxDuSlayer and Lacy for giving us their time.

I'm gonna try the hot dog trick today and see what happens. This wkend another 2cooler and I are planning on meeting up in manvel at a pond that doesnt have as sharp of a drop off (the one at my house, 4' from the bank its about 3-4' deep. So maybe i'll have better luck.


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## deke (Oct 5, 2004)

My $.02, if you havn't force fetched before let a pro do it or have someone that knows how to do it help you. FF poorly and exposing a dog to guns too quickly are the two quickest ways to ruin a dog.


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## plgorman (Jan 10, 2008)

Update:

Met up with another 2cooler yesterday afternoon in Manvel. This time at a pond with a shallower slope. Started out with his chessy doing a few water retrieves with a live pigeon (clip wing). Pete got jealous but still wouldnt get after it. We went to another side where we found a deep hole. Threw the bird out a few times, Pete fell off into the hole and turned back around. I went and got the secret weapon (hot dogs) to try, but these didnt float...oh well. I waded out into the hole and had him follow me. Yanked him out there and held his back end up while he paddled for a min or two. Then started throwing the bird out across the deep hole. He wouldnt get it at first. After a few tried with no luck I started giving him a push out when I sent him on the retrieve and before the end of the day he was going out over the deep hole (swimming! Heck yeah!) on his own. By the time he got the bird everytime he was on the other side (on land) and would walk around to bring it back (small hole), but hey Ill take what I can get right now...baby steps right? Gonna work with it some more this wk and hopefully again at some other ponds later this wk.


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## Swamp Root (May 12, 2009)

plgorman said:


> Update:
> 
> Met up with another 2cooler yesterday afternoon in Manvel. This time at a pond with a shallower slope. Started out with his chessy doing a few water retrieves with a live pigeon (clip wing). Pete got jealous but still wouldnt get after it. We went to another side where we found a deep hole. Threw the bird out a few times, Pete fell off into the hole and turned back around. I went and got the secret weapon (hot dogs) to try, but these didnt float...oh well. I waded out into the hole and had him follow me. Yanked him out there and held his back end up while he paddled for a min or two. Then started throwing the bird out across the deep hole. He wouldnt get it at first. *After a few tried with no luck I started giving him a push out when I sent him on the retrieve and before the end of the day he was going out over the deep hole (swimming! Heck yeah!) on his own.* By the time he got the bird everytime he was on the other side (on land) and would walk around to bring it back (small hole), but hey Ill take what I can get right now...baby steps right? Gonna work with it some more this wk and hopefully again at some other ponds later this wk.


See I told you... may not work for all dogs, but the four that I have trained to be duck dogs have all learned to swim this way! All you have to do is get him in the water (without pulling him in by his collar) and once he realizes he doesn't sink, he will love it... now all you have to worry about is keeping him out of the water around swimming pools and places that you DON'T want him in the water haha


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## dwhite (Jul 11, 2007)

bayourat said:


> You have ponds without gators in danbury?


YEP!! Sure do!


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## dwhite (Jul 11, 2007)

Glad to hear your dog did good!! If you are still interested in meeting up pm me, looking at going out tuesday. Buddy of mine has a friend that wants a few tips so there will be a few of us there.


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## TxDuSlayer (Jun 24, 2006)

Glad to hear ya got ole Pete in the water!


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## plgorman (Jan 10, 2008)

TxDuSlayer said:


> Glad to hear ya got ole Pete in the water!


Thanks bud, it wasnt looking too pretty the day you and I were out there. The live bird got him pumped up and that easy slope just took him by surprise. We still have some work to do though.


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## plgorman (Jan 10, 2008)

Update for anyone who cares:

Been working Pete over a variety of ponds and puddles over the last few wks. Yesterday, took him out to the pond behind my house that he never would swim in. TxDuSlayer knows which one im referring to. Had him swimming clear across it with no hesitation. Jumping RIGHT in. Even walked around (pretty wide pond), had him sit on the other side. Threw the bumper out, walked back around to Pete and sent him. He went all the way across and back. Now its on to perfecting his casting.

It was a combination of hot dogs, live birds, force fetch, a new jacket with flotation (avery boaters parka) and me getting in deep with waders (at first) that got him comfortable with swimming. He's gonna be put to the test tomorrow with Teal for his first retrieve. 

This is my first dog to train, with little help other than web forums (2coolfishing.com and duckhuntingchat.com>hunting dog subforum), along with the FowlDogs Series and I am pretty impressed with Pete and myself. I always thought it seemed like such a challenge (and it is) but man, I dont think i've ever been more proud...

Ill post pics of his first retrieve if we get into some birds this wkend...

Also thanks to TxDuSlayer and gulfcoast200 for coming out with their pups to help...


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## Chase4556 (Aug 26, 2008)

Man, reading this thread has me so excited to get my dog, and get him/her trained.

My sister has a beagle...tried to get her to be somewhat of a field dog, she will chase anything, but is scared to death of plastic bags, and about poops herself at the sight of a gun, much less one being shot. Was a real let down... 

Counting down the days till I can get my lab...


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## BretE (Jan 24, 2008)

plgorman.....been following this thread since the beginning. Glad to hear it all worked out, had a feelin it would. Good luck tomorrow, let us know how it went......

Bret


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## plgorman (Jan 10, 2008)

Chase4556 said:


> Man, reading this thread has me so excited to get my dog, and get him/her trained.
> 
> My sister has a beagle...tried to get her to be somewhat of a field dog, she will chase anything, but is scared to death of plastic bags, and about poops herself at the sight of a gun, much less one being shot. Was a real let down...
> 
> Counting down the days till I can get my lab...


If I can give you one piece of advice from my limited noob knowledge, def if its your first dog to train...get the FowlDogs series. Its $30 a dvd and REALLY comprehensive and detailed. I read waterdog and have a few Smartworks books and DVDs (too expensive, not as detailed and user friendly) and wasnt impressed. FowlDogs will take you through each drill. 3 dvds total and we are just finishing # 1 at 9 months.

and FORCE FETCH


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## Chase4556 (Aug 26, 2008)

plgorman said:


> If I can give you one piece of advice from my limited noob knowledge, def if its your first dog to train...get the FowlDogs series. Its $30 a dvd and REALLY comprehensive and detailed. I read waterdog and have a few Smartworks books and DVDs (too expensive, not as detailed and user friendly) and wasnt impressed. FowlDogs will take you through each drill. 3 dvds total and we are just finishing # 1 at 9 months.
> 
> and FORCE FETCH


I put all my noob knowledge to work as well, and I have her where she obeys, and will retrieve anything from just about anywere. She swims like she is a lab, has a soft mouth, all the things I've been told to look for in a nice RETRIEVER, its like she thinks she is a lab.

The problem is...she is a complete wussy dog. She is afraid of guns, plastic bags when we unload groceries, loud noises..all the things that the dog needs to be comfortable around to take her to the field, she is afraid.

Short of sticking her in a kennel and taking her to the shooting range, I dont know how to break her of her fears.


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## plgorman (Jan 10, 2008)

idk I've never heard of anyone hunting waterfowl w/ a beagle. But if you wanna break her of the gun fear...its gonna be hard to do. Only thing I can say is throw dummies for her and have someone stand about 100yds away w/ a .22 shooting on the throw and move them up a few steps each time. Then once the gun is right next to the dog start over w/ a .410, so on and so forth

But im no pro


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## Chase4556 (Aug 26, 2008)

I wouldnt hunt waterfowl with her...but she just loves to swim. Haha.

She'd be a field dog for sure...rabbit, stuff like that.


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## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

If the dog is scared of the SIGHT of a gun, put a little BB gun or something around the yard/house where you both frequent.... place the gun near the dogs food when its time to eat.... 

Everytime you play with the dog, have the gun near by.... 

My dog used to be terrified of fishing rods (not sure why).... She wouldnt even come near the porch when I was getting my rods out.... I keep an old one in the corner on the back porch now and she hasnt had a problem in years with them...


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## plgorman (Jan 10, 2008)

yeah i have a springer that I tried to train using Waterdog about 3 yrs ago. I failed w/ him, he's an awesome housedog but he runs at the sight of anything resembling a gun or hearing me rack a weapon from across the house...


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## Chase4556 (Aug 26, 2008)

justinsfa said:


> If the dog is scared of the SIGHT of a gun, put a little BB gun or something around the yard/house where you both frequent.... place the gun near the dogs food when its time to eat....


Sight of a gun, sound of a gun, large boxes, sight of paintball gun, me carrying an RC boat into the house, rc airplanes, plastic bags, bubble wrap popping, and so much more.

Loves chasing animals, swimming, and a laser pointer...who would have guessed?


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## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

ewwww.... ya, might wanna stick to being a yard dog.... Thats alot of fears, and its not just noises....

One thing you for SURE dont want to happen is to get out in the field and the dog A) get scared and run off and get into even more trouble, or B) get scared in the field and not want to be IN the field anymore...


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## flatsprowler (Jul 1, 2008)

I have a male chocolate about the same age as yours. I noticed the same thing with him originally...he just wouldn't get in the water past what he could wade in. I took him in the pool with me holding him and boy was he nervous. I would stay right there with him and let him go in the water and back up...he would swim right to me hoping I would hold him up...well I would and he, after just a few of these sessions was going in on his own for the fun of it. Toss something in and watch out....he's all over it. He is about ten months now and swims to eight foot under after a water filled tennis ball. Throw something in and it sinks to the bottom...he dives in never surfacing until he has the object. Can't wait to do this with him in a deeper pool....should be a sight to see. I'll have to record this and post it........its really something. 

Anyway hope this helps

V/R


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## drfishalot (Sep 9, 2004)

here is a trick that I bet few of you have seen. but maybe not. During FF you train them to hold on command right. so my dog did. one day a buddy needed some shells dove hunting, he hollered at me. so told my dog to "hold", put a box of shells in her mouth, and said "Take it to" a command she knew anyway and pointed to my friend 200 yards away. needless to say he still remembers that and tells people about it. only dog I ever trained and I used Waterdog. at 8 months had her dove hunting. first goose at 10 months-was scared that the wounded ones would scare her for life but that didn't happen. late first season had a dentist with me with a professionally trained dog and he couldn't believe how she would honor his dog. she really had the DESIRE AND HEART. she did have a pretty nice pedigree which didn't hurt. 
she is 10 now and her hips hurt her to much to hunt but I take her once a year for the last couple years just because she deserves it. i give her no commands, let her do what ever she wants. she breaks on the shot now which pizzes me off to no end but I don't say a word. just give her lots of treats on her day. sorry for the rambles.


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## plgorman (Jan 10, 2008)

fishalot yeah FF works wonders man. I can give my dog the remote and my wife can say 'here' and he will bring it to her. Or if I dont feel like getting up to get my shoes in the morning before i go to work I can say 'fetch' put in on a line and he will get them and bring them to me...


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## Chase4556 (Aug 26, 2008)

justinsfa said:


> ewwww.... ya, might wanna stick to being a yard dog.... Thats alot of fears, and its not just noises....
> 
> One thing you for SURE dont want to happen is to get out in the field and the dog A) get scared and run off and get into even more trouble, or B) get scared in the field and not want to be IN the field anymore...


Yeah, I know. Thats why I'm counting down to get my lab!!


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## drfishalot (Sep 9, 2004)

plgorman said:


> fishalot yeah FF works wonders man. I can give my dog the remote and my wife can say 'here' and he will bring it to her. Or if I dont feel like getting up to get my shoes in the morning before i go to work I can say 'fetch' put in on a line and he will get them and bring them to me...


Ditto, my dog knows me and the wife by name so I can be upstairs and tell her to "take it to lisa"-whatever it is and she will deliver whatever downstairs. wife will send things up to me-"take it to vic". dog loves it too cause we make a big fuss over her


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## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

Mine don't like swimming either... he tries to fly but doesn't have it down pat yet


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## plgorman (Jan 10, 2008)

Last Update, Pics from Sunday's hunt. This is Pete's 4th hunt but the first that we killed any on (not counting a real slow dove hunt on friday, he retrieved 2 dove but who cares about that). My buddy backed out on me AGAIN late sat night so Pete and I went out to the marsh early Sun morning. Shot 4 teal, lost # 1 in the saltgrass. As I was looking for # 1 had 2 groups of 15-20 buzz the dekes so I went and got back in the blind after about 30 min of searching. Pete wasnt on this retrieve b/c I was worried about snakes and gators (saw one about 8' on the way out that morning). After I got back in the blind it was pretty steady hunting. Groups of 15-20 every 15 minutes with occasional singles in there. As I was getting back in the blind a group came in and I dropped 2 rockets. Pete didnt see them fall (he was in the blind) so put him on a line, he swam straight past the dekes and I whistle sit/stopped him and gave him the 'over' upon which he turned left and found bird #1. Brought it to hand and gave him the 'back' and he went out but couldnt find it at first. Gave him another 'over' and he turned left and found #2. A few min later a single came in and had a crash landing skipping across the water in the dekes. Sent Pete out on another cold blind and whistle'd him and gave 'over' and he got # 3. The sun came up over the clouds then and I lit up a Monte Cristo and waited to see if the hunt was over or not. After about 30 min and not seeing any birds (except in the distance) I proceeded to pack up the blind and pick up the spread. As I was doing this I had a single buzz me and another group of 15-20 interested but flared when they saw me. AWESOME hunt and I could not be prouder of my pup. We've come a long way and worked through some pretty tough situations. We are no where near done though...

Pic Captions:
#1 "Man I'm Bored"
#2 First cast 'over'
#3 Second cast 'over'
#4 Coming in with Bird # 2
#5 At the house


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## bayourat (Jan 7, 2005)

hey lance.... I know that spot.


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## plgorman (Jan 10, 2008)

I didnt even say what area it was in! Sry hopefully no one else will...


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## bayourat (Jan 7, 2005)

plgorman said:


> I didnt even say what area it was in! Sry hopefully no one else will...


Just watch your dog up there...... waaaaay to many gators for me to take mine there in teal season.


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## plgorman (Jan 10, 2008)

yep I saw about an 8 footer on the ride back...


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## Spots and Dots (May 23, 2004)

are those man capris you're wearing????????



glad you got old poochy to swim. I learned this weekend that mine is afraid of the hickups.


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## plgorman (Jan 10, 2008)

Spots and Dots said:


> are those man capris you're wearing????????
> 
> glad you got old poochy to swim. I learned this weekend that mine is afraid of the hickups.


HAHA my boss asked the same thing, no but it sure looks like it, they are drawstring shorts. I have some camo waterproof gym style pants that I wore over those...lol


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