# Deer Hunting with .223



## mlw85547 (Nov 2, 2015)

So I know this is going to start a whole lot of BS with whether or not it is ethical to hunt deer with this round, but I have questions for those that do or have. 

Right now I run a 16" .308 with a 4x leupold for east texas and it does great, but most guys at the lease bring a back up deer rifle in case something happens to their primary. My thought has been why not make my AR my backup deer rifle. I shoot it more than any other rifle and am more comfortable with it than any other firearm with the exception of my carry pistol. 

I've done a lot of research and in general most folks that do not dismiss the idea completely are comfortable with a heavy grain .223 (60gr+) inside of 200yrds on < 200lb animals. In my woods most shots are within 100yrds and the biggest deer i've killed was 120lbs on the hoof. We just have small critters up close. 

The other thought that I had is why some of the hog guides i've talked to run AR's on 250, 350, 450 + lb pigs? These little bitty deer I stare at are much more fragile than the big boars i see killed with little bitty rounds. I've also seen a lot of guys setting up their children with .223s for a starter deer rifle. Not trying to brag, but I am at least as proficient with my AR as a 10yr old with a H&R single shot. 

Please do not post "get this or that". I would just like to know what others' experiences have been with hunting smaller animals at close ranges. Maybe mention what ammo has worked best. 

Thanks,


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## Cody C (May 15, 2009)

Green and yellow box of Remington have killed more deer for me in 223 55 gr than anything else. 

Just have to put it where you want it to be. 

Some people cannot shoot well enough to consistently kill with 223. Proficient shooters shouldn't have a problem. 

I went back to 308/30.06 for a few years. Now I'm back to 223 for my main squeeze. 



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## Sgrem (Oct 5, 2005)

I have never needed a backup deer rifle. Never heard of such a need.

I shoot hogs in ear/head/neck with a .204......cuz I don't care about or respect hogs. At all. Yes it dumps then just fine....with very little margin for error. I have much more respect for proper big game animals than to risk it on such a small margin of error. In real hunting conditions you should plan for less than perfect conditions.

.223 is at the very bottom of a long long list of better choices for deer hunting. They still won't care what killed them. Shot placement and then bullet selection is paramount to anything else.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

223 info

Hunted with 223 for many years and found the only answer was a good bullet and the green and yellow Remington is not it. The only bullet I determined that was always consistent was the Barnes TSX. I always shot the 55 gr. You can shoulder shoot and get penetration plus some inside damage. Out beyond say 150 yards everything begans to die off. Bullet also works on pigs due to the design of being all copper and stays together plus penetrates. People will challenge me on this and yes any bullet will work as long as you get the right type of shot given to you. Having to rely on a "ear" shot is not always the case.Went to a 7mm-08 because had some 200 yard shots beginning to show up so had to change. here is a video of 223 55 gr Barnes doing its stuff.


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## Steve H (Jul 25, 2010)

sgrem said:


> I have never needed a backup deer rifle. Never heard of such a need.
> 
> I shoot hogs in ear/head/neck with a .204......cuz I don't care about or respect hogs. At all. Yes it dumps then just fine....with very little margin for error. I have much more respect for proper big game animals than to risk it on such a small margin of error. In real hunting conditions you should plan for less than perfect conditions.
> 
> .223 is at the very bottom of a long long list of better choices for deer hunting. They still won't care what killed them. Shot placement and then bullet selection is paramount to anything else.


I have never needed a back up rifle in 30+ years of hunting before last year when my rifle slid off the mule seat on the rocks at 5:30 one morning. I had a back up rifle just for things like this.

223 will kill deer size game. Shot placement and bullet design is everything. Most 223 AR'S will not stabilize a bullet more than 62 grains due to the twist.

Myself and other people on my lease are using the 6.8 SPC shooting 120 grain Hornady SST bullets with great results. Pass through chest shots at 180 yards with no problems.

The 6.8 is in an AR -15 platform and the recoil is not much more than a 223. It would be a great round for a young shooter. One guy has both the 223 and 6.8 uppers. Two pins and he can change calibers if he wants in minutes.


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## Sgrem (Oct 5, 2005)

6.5 Grendel in my AR15 is the go to for a do it all. Has put down elk out past 400 yards with 123grain SST.

I'm convinced the 6.5 Grendel is the softest shooting capable hunting round.


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## bwguardian (Aug 30, 2005)

My two oldest daughters utilized a Kimber of Oregon .223 with Hornady ammo for their first couple of years and were deadly with this set up inside of 125 yards. My middle daughter kept wanting to know why she could not shoot a deer or pig at 200 plus yards and I had to explain the gun was not strong enough to reach out and make a clean kill at that distance...her response: "Dad, we need to get a bigger gun!". I now have them on my old faithful Winchester model 70 30.06 with Remington reduced recoil. My middle daughter is deadly to 200 yards with this setup at age 12.


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## mlw85547 (Nov 2, 2015)

Thanks for the response y'all.

My AR is a 16" 5.56 with a 1:7 twist. I've read that this barrel can stablize the heaviest of available bullets and remain accurate. A quick little google search shows there is a good number of 77 gr. based cartridges out there but most seem to be BTHP. I heard that this is not a recommended hunting bullet but more of a match/target round but i'm not sure why. 

My .308 is ammo picky and the best i've found for it is Federal Premium 168gr with Sierra Matchking BTHP. This round has always DRT'd deer for me and left all kinds of carnage only to recently read it is not an intended hunting round. 

I guess my next question would be what factory ammo would be recommended. I see 55 gr. Barnes TSX, and i read that partition is good as well. Maybe a little help in understanding the bullet performance as well? Never had a problem killing with the .308.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Ok bullet performance..

Heavier bullets (bigger caliber) has much more lead making them much more deadly at longer ranges. The smaller caliber 223 bullet must always perform because there is not much to work with (bullet size) to begin with so every bullet must perform perfect. You cannot just ask for the bullet to kill something. You must always have confidence they will work or perform. Therefore you must have one that always works. Went through most every 223 bullet over the years and the Barnes was it. The partition 223 IMHO just blows the front off of the bullet and the base does penetrate. You have to look for the exit wound. Usually just a smear of blood showing. Not much blood channel. Jus sayin.


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## Capt. Marcus Canales (Aug 25, 2005)

Had great luck the last few years with the Fusion ammo in 223, 62gr....I have a 20 inch heavy barrel on my AR....my fiancÃ© killed her first big body buck and hog with it this year, both ran about 25 yards and we're stone cold dead. We hunt on family land here in Arteisa Wells and Benevides Texas.

formally known as "osoobsessed"
Www.baffinbayrodandgun.com


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## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

IMO, a .223 has plenty of energy, it is just up to you transfer at least enough of that energy into the deer. I think the correct bullet and shot placement is everything.


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## smacha538 (Jun 11, 2012)

Killed my bucks the last two seasons using .223 62 grain federal fusion shot out of my 16 inch AR. One didn't take a step, the other walked about 10 yards and crumpled. Worked perfectly. Projectile remained expanded and intact. Both bullets passed through chest cavity and were recovered in the hide of the opposite side. Vitals were mush. Not sure what more a person could want. 

















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## Spots and Dots (May 23, 2004)

Who are these guys with 350 - 450lb pigs? I wanna shoot one of those!


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## mlw85547 (Nov 2, 2015)

I think i'm gonna get a box of these.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/66...ock-x-bullet-hollow-point-lead-free-box-of-20

70gr Barnes TSX 
Muzzle Velocity: 2850 fps
Muzzle Energy: 1262 ft lb
Sectional Density: 0.199
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.314

Seems to be pretty good specs and i like the idea of a solid copper bullet. Pretty sweet looking round.


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## Sniper John (Dec 11, 2006)

I have taken a deer as a target of opportunity while setting up for an ambush on a Fall Turkey. I was using one of the Winchester 64gr powerpoint loadings at the time. Performed just fine on the deer at 50 yards. Shot placement is the key. I would not expect a .223 to be forgiving at all for poor shot placements.


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## DCAVA (Aug 5, 2013)

mlw85547 said:


> I think i'm gonna get a box of these.
> http://www.midwayusa.com/product/66...ock-x-bullet-hollow-point-lead-free-box-of-20
> 
> 70gr Barnes TSX
> ...


A well constructed expanding lead core bullet is a must for deer, especially with a .223 round with limited ft lbs of knock down power past 150 yards. Study ballistic tables before attempting to take game animals with that type of round; having said that, a skilled marksman shooting a .223 can down deer sized game cleanly and efficiently, as per say , the same marksman using a .270 or larger caliber given distance and shot placement respectively. I have witnessed deer shot @ 200 yards with a .222 cleanly and effectively with perfect shot placement....


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## justletmein (Feb 11, 2006)

.223 is just fine if you can hit where you intend. For added peace of mind send a Barnes TSX down the pipe.


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## popeye_iv (Oct 29, 2015)

sgrem said:


> I have never needed a backup deer rifle. Never heard of such a need.


Because I was traversing a creek bed once and slipped on some ice... Broke my stock in half.....

I had my .223 with me for prairie dogs. I got a nice lung shot with it on a deer and still had to track it 300 yards through a briar patch.

The .223 is at the lower end for big game. A well placed soft-tip bullet should make a kill, but it might not drop it where it stands. If I were planning on bringing a backup, I would probably bring a shotgun with sabbot slugs or a large bore handgun before I use the .223 again.


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## mrsh978 (Apr 24, 2006)

Ok here we go. 

223 is a extremely marginal caliber for deer - hill country size ( shots under 100 yds ) . IF - the shooter places Bullet properly , it will " work". Larger calibers allow for human issues.

This can be beat up all day here . 223 is right there with a 243. You will need a dog for both. 

... You can put out a fire with a squirt gun or do it right with a fire hose


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## kweber (Sep 20, 2005)

.22 Hornet!
Yeah, Baby!
and an old .32-20...
proven deer-killerz...


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## 223AI (May 7, 2012)

mrsh978 said:


> Ok here we go.
> 
> 223 is a extremely marginal caliber for deer - hill country size ( shots under 100 yds ) . IF - the shooter places Bullet properly , it will " work". Larger calibers allow for human issues.
> 
> ...


This is outdated thinking. Bullets matter more than headstamp, and shot placement is a very close second. Modern .223 (.224) hunting bullets close the gap, and are absolutely deadly to any Texas game animal...Hill country down to South Texas.

Speaking of "human issue", the .223 allows for a shooter to pile primers at the range cheaply, especially compounded if you load your own. win/win.

I'll take a 16-20" .223 (bolt or gasser) stoked with with 62gr TSX, over a 308, 30-06, 270, 300wm, etc....every day of the week, and kill with confidence.


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## Cynoscion (Jun 4, 2009)

mrsh978 said:


> Ok here we go.
> 
> 223 is a extremely marginal caliber for deer - hill country size ( shots under 100 yds ) . IF - the shooter places Bullet properly , it will " work". Larger calibers allow for human issues.
> 
> ...


Tried to green you but says I have to spread.

Even dogs would be marginal b/c of lack of blood trail due to unlikelihood of exit.

I'd much rather have a fire hose than a squirt gun!


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## Sgrem (Oct 5, 2005)

The same guys that think a small .223 will be the best choice for hunting big game also think they need a giant dually diesel to tow their fourwheeler. They make lots of different size hammers.....but I bet the hammer in your toolbox is about middle sized....most don't use a tiny hammer....

Course hammers ain't sexy....


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## mrsh978 (Apr 24, 2006)

Ask the dog folks. They cringe when the marginal calibers are utilized. The AR platform has promoted usage beyond necessity. It's not outdated thinking. I have a large collection of 22 cals - my sanity would be questioned using my 222 on a Webb county buck in a sendero at 250 yds ... It COULD be done , but the percentage of successful performance(s) is in the single digits. 

Now , Wiley coyote in Webb county at 300 yds - different outcome.


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## mrsh978 (Apr 24, 2006)

FYI - my 7 yard old daughter killed her 1st buck this year with a 7-08. Recoil / flinch issue goes out the window- if a 60 lb girl can tolerate ,,, where's the logic on a 200 lb dude


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## 223AI (May 7, 2012)

sgrem said:


> The same guys that think a small .223 will be the best choice for hunting big game also think they need a giant dually diesel to tow their fourwheeler. They make lots of different size hammers.....but I bet the hammer in your toolbox is about middle sized....most don't use a tiny hammer....
> 
> Course hammers ain't sexy....


I would never use a .223 for big game. If I was after Elk, or Bear, or was taking long shots (300+ yards), I'd rely on my 6.5x47 or similar. Whitetail deer are not big game, and the 223, stoked with the right bullet, drops them reliably and easily.

Of course, I drive a Chevy Colorado, fish out of a 19' poling skiff...so maybe I just like to do things differently.


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## smacha538 (Jun 11, 2012)

mrsh978 said:


> Ok here we go.
> 
> 223 is a extremely marginal caliber for deer - hill country size ( shots under 100 yds ) . IF - the shooter places Bullet properly , it will " work". Larger calibers allow for human issues.
> 
> ...


Need a dog? That's weird I guess these deer didn't get the memo that they were supposed to run away...

















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## Brute (Apr 29, 2009)

The idea that you need a back up deer rifle is a discussion in itself.

I can kill a deer or hog with a .22, can kill them with a .223, but I actually get paid for dead hogs if I show them the hog. I use a .243 or larger caliber. Percentage wise I put up more DRTs with a .243 or larger caliber. You can attest that to shot placement or what ever but it's still the reality. Real life is not a controlled inviroment so you need to compensate for that imo.

I have never understood putting a .223 in a kids hands to start with when you can get a 6.8 or .243 or countless other calibers. They say because the recoil, then buy a single shot... heres your sign.

My uncle has video of my cousin putting what seemed like a perfect shot on a buck with a .223. We tracked it and I watched it walk off.


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## mrsh978 (Apr 24, 2006)

smacha538 said:


> Need a dog? That's weird I guess these deer didn't get the memo that they were supposed to run away...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


CSI - hill country , under or near feeder , box blind


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## smacha538 (Jun 11, 2012)

mrsh978 said:


> CSI - hill country , under or near feeder , box blind


What does either one of those have to do with a .223 round being able to effectively kill a whitetail? According to your theory, I was supposed to have to use a dog to find these deer. In reality, not even close to true.

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## kweber (Sep 20, 2005)

too bad the .260rem is so hard to come by...
perfect deer-blind gun...
the Scandinavians know a good thing w/their 6.5x55..


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## mrsh978 (Apr 24, 2006)

Not theory - simple reality. A 223 is a iffy caliber for large deer. If you start shooting beyond a 100 yds, at large bodied deer ( 200 lb live weight ) , you WILL need a dog (or donate to coyotes) to locate after you perfectly placed round fails to leave them where they stood . A 115 lb dressed deer can be killed with a 223 within reasonable yardage. Nice deer btw


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## 223AI (May 7, 2012)

mrsh978 said:


> Not theory - simple reality. A 223 is a iffy caliber for large deer. If you start shooting beyond a 100 yds, at large bodied deer ( 200 lb live weight ) , you WILL need a dog (or donate to coyotes) to locate after you perfectly placed round fails to leave them where they stood . A 115 lb dressed deer can be killed with a 223 within reasonable yardage. Nice deer btw


How many deer and hogs have you actually shot with a properly loaded .223?


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## Main Frame 8 (Mar 16, 2007)

Tired argument. They are legal. Use them if you want. I've seen them hit in the breadbasket and drop at a short distance. I've seen them hit in the breadbasket, not to be found due to little to no blood trail or found after the meat was no longer harvest-able. I've also seen deer poorly shot with a 30-06 that were spined or hit in a way that the shot was not immediately fatal, yet the deer was unable to leave the scene and needed a follow-up shot or throat slit to dispatch. I've hit some with 30-06 that you couldn't dial up a better shot location and have no idea how they ran 100 yards before expiring. My personal preference is to not use .223 caliber on deer. Why? Because I have calibers that I feel are more effective in quickly dispatching them, specifically if there is a less than desired shot placement. And those do happen, I don't care who you are.


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## Capt. Marcus Canales (Aug 25, 2005)

In my line of work, I would rather have a smaller caliber rifle to the pump station with ease, then a "man caliber" with the dredded flinch and wounded animal. Been doing it 10 years full time 8 years from wt to exotics, seen a lot. Lol

formally known as "osoobsessed"
Www.baffinbayrodandgun.com


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## mrsh978 (Apr 24, 2006)

223AI said:


> How many deer and hogs have you actually shot with a properly loaded .223?


Deer zero - I've hunted and been part of large south Tx ranch operations on the culling end - 20 to 45 mature bucks per season and does to match - it is absolute brutal work . Most done with a 280 ai or a 300 win . That many crosshair situations require extreme terminal parameters . This cannot be done sitting on a feeder in a deer blind so maximum acerage must be covered to obtain the deer. Shots are from point blank to 350 yds- I don't shoot past that and a small caliber gun is no a option. Period.

Hogs plenty- those are shots that don't have the serious implications of deer mangement - 222 Remington up to my swift . But I could kill them further and more effectively with larger ballistics.

Cherry picking a hill country size deer under 200 yds is feasible but if you are to kill something, put enough mustard on that hotdog

Sorry we high jacked this guys thread.


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## mlw85547 (Nov 2, 2015)

Lots of good information. This happens on all the other threads i've seen on other forums too. I think i'm going to give it a try. Probably put a proper round on a pig pre-season to checkout the damage. 

To the nay sayers, understand the purpose of the hunting rifle. 150lb deer tops well with in 150yrds. Most of our shooting lanes are not more than 100 yrds long. The .308 will still be a primary rifle; I was just looking to see if my AR could pose as a back-up. I have a 300 win mag, 7mm mag, and another 308, but I dont like using those guns in east texas. 24" barrels with expensive as hell scopes getting banged around for little deer inside of .357 magnum distance just doesnt make since to me. My AR on the other hand is a beater gun anyway.


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## Sgrem (Oct 5, 2005)

30-30 with a cheap old Redfield widefield off of eBay is the ultimate in that scenario.... now that is some Texas!


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## sabiki (Aug 21, 2005)

mrsh978 said:


> Not theory - simple reality. A 223 is a iffy caliber for large deer. If you start shooting beyond a 100 yds, at large bodied deer ( 200 lb live weight ) , you WILL need a dog (or donate to coyotes) to locate after you perfectly placed round fails to leave them where they stood . A 115 lb dressed deer can be killed with a 223 within reasonable yardage. Nice deer btw


well spoken! The key here is "large bodied deer" texas is huge, with a lot of different deer hunting scenarios. I grew up in Wharton co- most mature bucks in this area will be 120-140lbs live wt, -- I killed PILES of deer with my old .222-- a very accurate and capable round. been very blessed and able to afford to hunt south texas the past 8 yrs or so---and I can tell you that I would NEVER climb in my stand down there looking to kill a mature buck with a 223-- the bucks are way bigger and more muscular than back home-- not to mention a shot past 200 yds is very common. I killed a really nice mgmt. deer at 325yds last year-- with my 7 mag. I feel it would have been a VERY poor hunting decision to even attempt it with a 223. I think a 223 is good round for deer-- in certain areas..


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## the hook (Aug 8, 2011)

Didn't read all the replies, but...Nothing wrong with .223....Yes, it is light...Confidence in your shooting is paramount with light bullets though...I've shot 'some' deer with .22-250 and no problem...My goto is a .25-06 though...I know guys that hunt/hunted with .223 for years and successfully killed deer..Shot placement is EVERYTHING...Have seen deer shot with 25gr, .17 Rem also and 'know' of a lot of deer killed with plain old .22...usually long rifle, but...


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## duckdaysofwinter (Jan 13, 2005)

Load is everything. Started my son with a 223 with these loads:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/52...ington-64-grain-jacketed-soft-point-box-of-20

While every shot was within 100 yards every deer or hog he shot had much more damage to it than my 243, 280 or 3006 has ever done to an animal.

As for the backup rifle, my buddy had his sling break a couple of years ago and bang up his scope, hunting would have been over for the week if he didn't have a backup...


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## kweber (Sep 20, 2005)

so howcum if ya wanna shoot dux, a benelli 3.5 is the only gun out there?
I got called names cuz I sed 28's were a little light for geese and cranes and big dux...
WDM Bell killed hundreds of elephants w/a 7mm Mauser and a 6.5 Mannlicher...(close to a 7mm-08 and .260rem)
no mention is made of how many were lost...
like I said before... long ago we killed a few w/a .22hornet... some weren't found...most were... 
a lot of this is just trying to justify AR platforms in .223 ...
we also shot a few deer w/a .32-20... 
cuz it was all my friends had...


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## texastkikker (Dec 24, 2008)

Backup Gun
We used to go on a mule deer hunt in W. Texas with a group of 3 hunters. There would always be at least 4 rifles sometimes 5 for the 3 of us in case somebody had troubles. Bouncing around in a jeep all day can cause problems. Luckily we never had to switch to a backup rifle in the 10 years we had that lease but we were prepared just in case.

.223 on Deer
I can go both ways. I personally would not shoot a deer with a .223. If one were to do it shot placement is key. I would much rather use my .270 WBY or something else from the safe. Now in a couple of years when my children are old enough to start killing deer, they will most likely do it with a .223 or a .243 at 100 yards MAX. We have a couple of stands on our place that are about 75 yards for the kiddos. They will have to prove themselves at the range first before they ever think about taking an animal. It is legal to use a .223....do whatever you want to do. Good Luck.


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## jaime1982 (Aug 25, 2009)

223AI said:


> This is outdated thinking. Bullets matter more than headstamp, and shot placement is a very close second. Modern .223 (.224) hunting bullets close the gap, and are absolutely deadly to any Texas game animal...Hill country down to South Texas.
> 
> Speaking of "human issue", the .223 allows for a shooter to pile primers at the range cheaply, especially compounded if you load your own. win/win.
> 
> I'll take a 16-20" .223 (bolt or gasser) stoked with with 62gr TSX, over a 308, 30-06, 270, 300wm, etc....every day of the week, and kill with confidence.


Not me, Im pretty small (145lb) and shoot my .308 easily and with confidence.


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## karstopo (Jun 29, 2009)

From my experience, unless you are making a in the head shot, no. My daughter, who is a good shot, once shot an Axis buck with a .223. I saw the shot and it had good placement on the shoulder but we could never find the animal. Later, she shot a different Axis in same shoulder aim point with a .270 and the deer dropped in its tracks.


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## karstopo (Jun 29, 2009)

A .308 or .270 has three and a half times the killing power at 100 yards as a .223. Even a .243 has 80 percent more killing power than a .223 at same distance. 

The.223 is a good, relatively cheap round and will take the average human out of action with a hit, but I would disagree that it is an effective, efficient, humane round to take down a deer with all but a good clean head shot.


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## 223AI (May 7, 2012)

karstopo said:


> A .308 or .270 has three and a half times the killing power at 100 yards as a .223. Even a .243 has 80 percent more killing power than a .223 at same distance.
> 
> The.223 is a good, relatively cheap round and will take the average human out of action with a hit, but I would disagree that it is an effective, efficient, humane round to take down a deer with all but a good clean head shot.


I had a hill country buck run 100+ yards with a 308, similar with big south Texas doe. Both were under 100 yard shots, and I thought shot placement was good...until I started training and shooting competitively. I also thought that Remington corelokt was good ammo, until I started rolling my own and paying attention to ballistics and terminal performance of bullets.

Knowing what I know now, those shots were garbage, with garbage ammo, because I thought that size matters most, and practice mattered very little. And knowing what I know now, with good 223 hunting bullets, and ammo tuned to my rifle, I'd take any Texas deer up to 300 yards with no second thought.

Practice makes perfect, and bullets matter more than headstand.


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## peckerwood (Jun 9, 2012)

sgrem said:


> I have never needed a backup deer rifle. Never heard of such a need.
> 
> I shoot hogs in ear/head/neck with a .204......cuz I don't care about or respect hogs. At all. Yes it dumps then just fine....with very little margin for error. I have much more respect for proper big game animals than to risk it on such a small margin of error. In real hunting conditions you should plan for less than perfect conditions.
> 
> .223 is at the very bottom of a long long list of better choices for deer hunting. They still won't care what killed them. Shot placement and then bullet selection is paramount to anything else.


I agree! I've hunted for 49 years and have never lost a deer.It's a risk I'm not willing to make.I've shot 2 bucks with a .54 ca. muzzleloader I had to trail,but did find them.


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## sboudreaux (May 22, 2008)

mrsh978 said:


> Ok here we go.
> 
> 223 is a extremely marginal caliber for deer - hill country size ( shots under 100 yds ) . IF - the shooter places Bullet properly , it will " work". Larger calibers allow for human issues.
> 
> ...


I read an article were Roy Hindes was asked which caliber was most commonly used when he was called out to get his dogs to find a deer. His answer was 7 mag. I've got to believe that this is because the hunters were scared of the gun and pulled the shot. I tried to find any caliber but a .243 for my oldest daughter but ended up getting one. It is extremely effective and cannot remember ever losing an animal with it. My youngest daughter shot her first animal a 200 pound hog this past season with a .223 no tracking required.

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## ccrocker1313 (Oct 23, 2005)

*It's all about shot placement ... *


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## steverino (Mar 8, 2006)

*My Dos Centavos*

A deer lung shot with almost any caliber will run and if pursued will continue to run. My young son shot a spike with my 270 and we thought it went down. We went to pick it up and it ran off and continued to run leaving a good blood trail. We tracked it and had to carry it back at least 100-200 yards through heavy brush. Lung shot they don't expire until they bleed out, no matter what caliber. I once shot a doe at about 50 yards with my 22-250. It went in as a small hole on one side and came out a large hole on the other side! It seemed that the bullet tumbled once it hit tissue. I used to shoot a lot of pigs with a 22-250 and then with a 223 VL and now again with the 22-250. Both are accurate and effective but the 22-250 seems to have much more punch! I always carry a backup to my 270 or 30-06, but a 223 is not it. I may use a 223 for varmint and pigs and will use an 223 AR for a lot of pigs!!! I believe in getting the job done and done humanely!


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## kweber (Sep 20, 2005)

there was only one majic bullet...
Dealy Plaza Nov22 1963...
the rest are just a piece of metal or a combination of 2 metals propelled from a tube
besides, heck, it's just a deer


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## laguna24 (Jun 16, 2004)

My niece shot a doe with a .223 at about 60 yds, nice behind the shoulder shot placement. Avg size hill country doe. Deer ran about 150 yds and took a long time to find with nearly no blood trail. I cleaned the animal and was pretty impressed with the internal damage, but it was not a pass through. .55 gr hornady. I'm still on the fence and would certainty use my AR on a deer in a jam, but not my go to as of now. Plenty of other caliber options in the AR platform. I've had to track a couple of deer that were shot well with a 30.06, but the massive blood trail made it pretty easy. My 10 yr old shoots a 30.06 with reduced recoil loads, DRT. My daughter and wife use a 6.5 Swede. The 6.5 is no joke. Deer killing machine. 


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