# XB808E Build Questions



## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

Ok, so I'm going to take the plunge and build me something that I can run up to Mike's with on my lunchbreaks with and get in 30-45 minutes of practice a couple of times/week. I realized yet again at the TFT race that I know the good lines, I just can't hit them consistently&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;which is straight-up lack of practice. So, I just need something for straight up practicing&#8230;&#8230;.charge it up, throw it on the track, and go.

So, all you electric guys let me know what you think of my selections&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;again, remember, this is for practice only. Just want it to be conservatively powered&#8230;..doesn't need to be a full race setup:

-Already have the XB808 Rolling chassis. Plan to trip the radio tray down and mount the receiver on top of that.

-RC-Monster battery tray w/ESC mount and wiring path
http://www.rc-monster.com/search.php

-Mamba Monster ESC w/2200kv motor. I'm pretty sold on the Monster because of the warranty
http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_info.php/products_id/32919/n/Castle-Creations-Mamba-Monster-1-8th-Scale-Brushless-Car-Package-2200kV

-Turnigy 2S packs&#8230;&#8230;..looking for something CHEAP for a battery. Willy was running these at the TFT race and had no problem with them:
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=10098

-Motor mount&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;I like this one because of the stuff posted on the thread here on 2cool
http://www.elitercd.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=62&Itemid=29

What else will I need?
-pinion gear. Know it needs to be an RRP to fit properly in this mount, but what tooth do I need with the stock XB808 spur gear?
-spur gear. Do I need to change the # of teeth? Do I need to go to a plastic?
-connectors. What are the best ones? The Bullett-type connectors? Deans? Traxxas?
-misc. What miscellaneous stuff am I overlooking that will end up costing me?

This is going to be about a 3-4 month project for me as money trickles in, so I've got time to wait if a new motor/ESC is coming out or something like that. I'm being told an 1800kv motor is coming from Castle too, and that it would probably be sufficient.


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## Guffinator (Aug 27, 2005)

On the battery tray..

I was talking to Willy this weekend. He's had problems with the Monster product breaking. He adapted one from a Hyper 7 which seems to be much sturdier as well as cheaper, I believe he said $15 for the tray.


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## wily (Oct 14, 2005)

Stay away from the rcmonster trays. We have broken out the front even with angle aluminum backing it up. We use hyper 9e trays and straps....15 bucks from nitrohouse.com.

my choices:
deans
hyper 9e tray and straps
castle 1800kv combo
stay with metal gears (i have stripped the kyosho gear)


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## jasonwipf (Feb 23, 2009)

ya, what willy said on the battery tray. then mount the ESC on the center diff like joor does on his xray and a few of us mugen guys too. Cooler running = more run time. Elite has a stronger adjustable battery tray i havent tried. Elites mount is a tad more but if you decide to ever race it or want to change the motor or pinion with any ease you will be cursing yourself for not flipping the extra $20. Ya wait for the 1800kv, the 2200 is super over kill. the 1800 is sufficient and will run longer run times and cooler. David joor said he runs a 14 and/or 15 tooth with his and I think its std. spur using a 1900kv tekin. all 3 of those connectors are good just get the one that most of us have so you can try out our batteries if you need and stay more universal. (will and i run deans btw but check with others too). 

Castle ESC/1800kv combo: $250 (w $10 tower saver membership)
Ofna hyper 9e battery tray or losi, AE: $15
Elite RC motor mount: $70
Pinions 14T & 15T: $30 (15ea)
Connectors & Y harness for 2pack operation: $15
Four 5kmah Turnegy packs: $100 (20ea plus $20shipping)

Think that comes to about:$ 480 before taxes or shipping

Fun FYI:

Most packs have a 300-500 cycle life. At a cheapo 300cycles x 18min (about what you'll get as a minimum with that motor and batt)=5400minutes x2 (sets of batteries)=10800 total minutes /60min in hour= 180hrs of runtime for $100
vs.
nitro where a nitro gallon has 30 tanks of gas (3785ml/125ml buggy tank) X 7.5 min of runtime avg. =225min per gallon or 3hr 45min/gallon. But if you were to run 10800 minutes as you may with electric you would have to buy 48 gallons of nitro (10800/225). X $35 per gallon = $1680!!!

Dont puff those batteries and your ahead of the game. But even if you puffed them at only 19 cycles each set you'd still be cheaper using electric than buying fuel.


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

Puff?


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## nelson6500 (Jun 8, 2007)

CV,

Here is my 808 that I converted, I wanted to see what the Xray rave was about and I can honestly say that it did feel better than my rc8b. 
It has the Elite rc motor mount and I used the Tekno battery trays from amain, I wanted the Tekno battery straps but they were out so I got those orange ones. If you want to borrow my 808 your more than welcome to use it before you take the plunge.

Matt


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## justindorsett (May 1, 2006)

"puff" That thing aint no good, throw it away before it blows up!!


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## jasonwipf (Feb 23, 2009)

Puffing is when you run your batteries down below their voltage minimum they will puff up (like a flat microwave popcorn bag puffs up when poping sorta) and either loose massive mah capacity and potentially light up like a match if you ignore the puff and keep continually using the pack. Contrary to what you might have heard about lipo explosions they don't explode like a fire cracker but flare like a huge match head. I puffed one into fire for fun at one of the club races at mikes last week in the empty field. (it was a soft pack that accidentally got jabbed by my exacto, so i jabbed it some more and threw it in the field for people to ooh and ahh at. So, hard packs are good and much safer) Looked like a chinese fountain firework for about 20-30 sec.

Your ESC comes with lipo cut off monitor, you'll need to set it on the ESC to 4 cell which is 12volts or 3v per cell but most of us try playing it safe and doing the manual setting and set our 4 cells setups at 3.3volts or 13.2volts on our ESCs. Most all lipos are that way, even the ones in our cell phones, when they get too low it tells you "power low" and turns your phone off. So dont worry too much we all run around with potential match heads in our pockets and up against our ears anyways.


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## aggie4231 (Feb 10, 2009)

I personally like the rcmonster battery tray. I broke the front of my first one after only a few runs, but that was my fault. I had a heavier and shorter battery and no velcro on the battery or tray to prevent sliding. Even with battery straps, batteries will slide around. I broke mine when the short battery slide from the back to the front violently(hit a telephone pole and a sudden stop).

Since then my second tray has been flawless, using velcro on the battery along with battery straps.

The only real qualm with the rcmonster tray(not the model specific ones) is the size. When I had my zippy battery I had to run it on its side to fit. Zippy batteries have weird dimensions, compared to other batteries. If using normal 2s size batteries(ie hardcase dimensions) the AE tray is perfect size. If using the long and or wide zippy batteries(especially 4s) the Losi tray is perfect size wise. The newer rc-monster model specific trays with esc mounts are really good for the price.


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

I was liking the RC-Monster tray because I didn't have to do any drilling.

With the Hyper9 or Losi or AE trays, do I have to drill new holes? I just drill the holes and then countersink the hole with a larger size bit?


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## jasonwipf (Feb 23, 2009)

Well like Aggie said RCM trays do brake. I understand RCM uses a plastic like the kind we see on plastic kitchen cutting boards and that is a common problem for R/C off-road applications. Then if they dont brake in front from sliding forward of the heavy lipo, the mounting screws strip out alot too and you have your case loose or flopping around inside. you should have seen the metal inserts we had to get at the hardware stores and dremeling done to make them fit. at $65 plus another $65 bucks to replace your broken one they do get expensive for the convenience of not drilling holes. The other name brand trays use harder plastics that the screw threads can hold and grip onto better. one hard landing at the river race track quad will show you what i ment by soft plastic stripping and front of case battery sliding.

Yes Courtney you do have to drill on those trays like you have described. Takes a few more minutes but for the strength and durability its worth it. Oh check out the kyosho tray too it seemed a bit more robust than the AE and LOSI tray and has 2 pack off sets built in. I saw phills and it looked pretty cool.


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## jasonwipf (Feb 23, 2009)

One more nail in the coffin for RCM trays.

Between Will and I we have probably shelled out close to $250 for our various original and replacement trays for the 3 buggies that used them and they have ALL broke. Since we have been using the $15 trays we have now, we have yet to brake one.


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

can you post a link to the tray that you guys use that is $15?

Also, how are you liking that new motor mount?


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## nik77356 (Jun 8, 2007)

Guys, Guff is the third person using the same rcmonster tray (earl, me, guff) and none of us ever had any problems with it breaking or anything. I love them an would definitely get another one. To each his own though!


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## Guffinator (Aug 27, 2005)

DISCLAIMER - Don't use my tray experience, as my dad (who is a master engineer) built and mounted my tray in such a way that there is NO WAY the front will break out.


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## wily (Oct 14, 2005)

http://www.nitrohouse.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=20832

http://www.nitrohouse.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=20840

I have also tried a gorilla tray and it lasted about a month.

Here is the tray and velcro straps. Good customer service to boot....one of my trays came out of the mold wrong and a simple email and they sent me a new one.

The hyper 9e tray has mounting holes that go up the entire depth of the tray. I used some 4mm screws from ace hw to run about an inch into the mounting hole and havent looked back since.

I would like to think that i am not that hard on my car, but i know my boys hammer them and these have held up.

Willy


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

any word on when the 1800kv Mamba combo will be released?


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## jasonwipf (Feb 23, 2009)

Guffinator said:


> DISCLAIMER - Don't use my tray experience, as my dad (who is a master engineer) built and mounted my tray in such a way that there is NO WAY the front will break out.


LOL I love that! Well with master engineering and modification they CAN be made to hold up.


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## nik77356 (Jun 8, 2007)

Well, if it can make it through earl when he was a sportsman, and me when I was a sportsman, I think they are pretty darn tough. JMO though and take it for what it's worth to you.


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## Big Phil (Apr 27, 2007)

nik77356 said:


> Well, if it can make it through earl when he was a sportsman, and me when I was a sportsman, I think they are pretty darn tough. JMO though and take it for what it's worth to you.


Your still a Sportsman..:slimer:


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## nik77356 (Jun 8, 2007)

Doh!!


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## SwayOveride (Aug 12, 2004)

Don't mean to hijack but whats the experiences between the Tekin system and the Mamba.... Why choose one over the other?


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## jasonwipf (Feb 23, 2009)

SwayOveride said:


> Don't mean to hijack but whats the experiences between the Tekin system and the Mamba.... Why choose one over the other?


IMO those 2 are the only two atm to get for your 1/8th buggy and both perform well and have great customer service if you ever have any issues. Both of their systems had issues upon release and both have fixed all of them in short order and are very reliable now.

So.... Now the basic difference is about $30 in price. 
Tekin has better selection of motor types (3 vs 10). 
Tekin has the sensored motor for low-end smoothness and switches to unsensored for high RPM. This is called Dual drive and gives you best of both worlds on smoothness, control and efficiency.
Tekin Has a small foot print and more airflow over its cooling fins so tends to run a tad cooler
Tekins amp rating is better too i believe.
And Tekin has ESC adjustments on the ESC to make changes in the pits with out a computer as well as an onboard ESC temp gauge built into its LED meter.

Castle is an awesome company and their systems are great dont get me wrong but for $30 more I like the features and motor selections of Tekin.


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## Guffinator (Aug 27, 2005)

I have not used any of the larger (1/10, 1/8) Mamba ESC's, but I do know that the 1/18th version is not very linear. It's much more a 'light switch' on/off type of throttle..which I've always hated.

Hopefully their larger units are smoother.


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## B4Maz (Aug 9, 2009)

I like Castle. They just came out with a bunch of new motors for 1/8 (they have a total of 6 now):

Neu-Castle 1512 1.5Y 1800kv motor is ideal for 1/8 buggies. More controllability than the 2650kv.

Neu-Castle 1512 1Y 2650kv motor is great for 4s buggies.

Neu-Castle 1515 1Y 2200kv motor is made for up to 6s Monster trucks.

Neu-Castle 1518 1Y 1800kv motor is perfect for Monster trucks and offers more controllability and torque than the higher kv 2200.

Neu-Castle 1520 1Y 1600kv motor is ideal for Monster trucks. This is the bad boy! Think in terms of a chipped turbo diesel...

Castle Creations' 1717 1580kv motor is great for Monster truck, truggy, and muggy applications. Higher torque and lower RPM than the 1515.


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## B4Maz (Aug 9, 2009)

Castle also has a field programmer, so you dont need a PC:



> Castle is pleased to announce the release of our new Field Link programming cards for AIR and CAR controllers. These handy cards allow users to change popular control settings quickly without a computer - great for the field box or workbench! Field Link cards offer the simplicity of one button operation. Click to move through the settings and hold/click to change the values. It's that easy!
> 
> Customers can also use the Field Link card as a USB adapter to connect Castle Link compatible controllers to their Windows PCs for complete access to all available programming options.
> 
> ...


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## B4Maz (Aug 9, 2009)

SwayOveride said:


> Don't mean to hijack but whats the experiences between the Tekin system and the Mamba.... Why choose one over the other?


I run the Castle 2650 in my RC8Be. Ive never had problems. The only thing is that since it is sensorless, there is a slight hesitation sometimes when starting from a dead stop. Other than that, its. smooth as silk.


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## jasonwipf (Feb 23, 2009)

B4Maz said:


> I run the Castle 2650 in my RC8Be. Ive never had problems. The only thing is that since it is sensorless, there is a slight hesitation sometimes when starting from a dead stop. Other than that, its. smooth as silk.


Well you wont really notice that cogging to much in a race either so its not that bad but their motors have alot of drag too. when you let off the gas (unless you have electric clutch) the motor slows the drive train like a mild drag brake. Like the magnets are aligned so that it the rotor is stiff. At first I was endoing alot on jumps because of this but had to adjust my driving and gas it more in the air but then when i landed i sometimes shot past turns. I dont know why but the tekins spin alot freer and you dont have to do some of the pitch correction you do with the castle motors.

Its cool they have a better selection new of motors. Man that one one the right is huge!


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## nelson6500 (Jun 8, 2007)

Has anyone tried running a Tekin motor with a MMM esc? If so is there any difference between the tekin and mamba motor?

Matt


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

Jason, your comments about the "drag" on the motor concern me......I'm trying to make this remotely similar to my nitro, as it will only be for practice.


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## Guffinator (Aug 27, 2005)

B4Maz said:


> I run the Castle 2650 in my RC8Be. Ive never had problems. The only thing is that since it is sensorless, there is a slight hesitation sometimes when starting from a dead stop. Other than that, its. smooth as silk.


That's enough right there to scare me off from them.


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## jasonwipf (Feb 23, 2009)

nelson6500 said:


> Has anyone tried running a Tekin motor with a MMM esc? If so is there any difference between the tekin and mamba motor?
> 
> Matt


Yes i ran my tekin ESC with a castle motor 2200 and it ran just fine, plug and play. The feel of the car was all from the motor, you could not tell any better or worse performance being it was the tekin ESC instead of the Mamba ESC.

Oh sry my response was reverse to your question. But Nick Sartor runs the Mamba ESC with the Tekin motor and he said it work good. How good or the "feel" we'll see if he replies here.


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## jasonwipf (Feb 23, 2009)

Courtney Vaughan said:


> Jason, your comments about the "drag" on the motor concern me......I'm trying to make this remotely similar to my nitro, as it will only be for practice.


Yep, with the $30 tuning card available on teh castle to bring the "on track" tunability up to par sorta with the tekin then the price is about the same now too. It just boils down to motor selection/ availability/ sensored feel and that dragginess of the magnets as the principle differences.


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## nik77356 (Jun 8, 2007)

The Tekin motor runs just fine on the MMM.

CV, you will probably want a Tekin motor for as little drag brake as possible.


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## B4Maz (Aug 9, 2009)

Guffinator said:


> That's enough right there to scare me off from them.


Its not a big deal. The only time it affects me is at the start. Unless you plan on stopping a lot during the race!


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## B4Maz (Aug 9, 2009)

I found that for the Mamba Monster, if you have the drag brake set at 0, the car will coast for a few feet with the throttle in neutral position. I turned my drag brake up to 20% on mine.


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

Think this battery will make a full 15 minutes?
http://hobbyking.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=9506


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## aggie4231 (Feb 10, 2009)

All of these should get you 15 minutes. some defiently. others depends on motor choice, gearing, driving style, track, etc. Also, adjust the lvc to your needs. I hit the lvc and 14 minutes once in a 15 minute main with a 5100 mah battery just turning avg consistant laps. I should of adjusted my lvc down to give me the little extra run time.

http://hobbyking.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=9933

http://hobbyking.com/hobbycity/stor...Product_Name=Turnigy_4000mAh_4S_40C_Lipo_Pack

http://hobbyking.com/hobbycity/stor...Product_Name=Turnigy_5000mAh_4S_40C_Lipo_Pack

http://hobbyking.com/hobbycity/stor...Product_Name=Turnigy_5000mAh_4S_30C_Lipo_Pack

http://hobbyking.com/hobbycity/stor...Product_Name=ZIPPY_Flightmax_5000mAh_4S1P_30C_


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## jasonwipf (Feb 23, 2009)

On my buggy i get 220-260mah/min depending on track and my friskiness on the throttle (ex. so 260x15.5min=4030mah safe minimum). 

Then be sure your battery says "matched" on them too. If they are unmatched you might hit your lipo cut off (LCO) prematurely if one of the four cells goes down faster than the rest reducing the avg. voltage your ESC sees. When matched they all go down together and not only might that buy you 30-60sec more run time but makes balanced charging faster since your charger doesnt have to sit there for 10-30minutes trying to top off that lagging unmatched cell at .1amp which they tend to do sometimes. 

Also if your LCO is set to the min 3.0volt per cell or 12v (as your ESC will see it) and you got one stupid unmatched cell that goes down faster, your ESC might cut off at 12v as its supposed to but the reality might be that 3 of the cells are at 3.2volts each and 1 is at 2.4volts (total 12v) and that 2.4volt cell could puff now totally ruining your pack! Many of us set our ESCs at 3.2volts LCO (12.8volts) to get around this but like I said above that reduces your run time by a lap or so. All the turnegy are matched but the zippy and rhino are not.

If you get matched, i'd still set it at 3.1volt/cell to be safe. In fact what I do especially for practice is if I know my worst case milage is 260mah/min and i got a 5000mah pack and that could buy me 19min 20sec "ish". I set my timer on my controller for 18 min and just stop when it beeps at me. Hell 18min way better practice time than fueling up every 6-7 min and you'll never have to dick around with wondering about taxing your batteries too low. Not to mention you'll be sure you can drive into the pits and you wont have to go walking to the far end of the track to pick up your dead car.

Lastly those packs linked above are good (if matched) but check the width up against your battery tray. If they are too wide and dont fit your tray you will have to run them on their side which leaves excess space on the sides now and increases your center of gravity.


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

Ok, ended up with this:

RC-Monster 3-piece motor mount & Servo plate. I wanted to be use normal pinion gears and be able to change the diff without removing the motor.

Mamba Monster Max V3 w/2650KV motor. Got too good of a deal on this and a battery.......will see how it goes and if I don't like it I'll save up for the Tekin system and a 4S battery

3S 5000MAH 40C Thunder Power Hard Case Lipo. Again, too good of a deal to pass up. Hoping the lower voltage will tame the car a little anyways.

Losi Battery Tray & Straps. Cheap, looks like it's going to fit perfectly, and has an ESC mount.....something I wanted so I could just remove the whole electronics tray and motor all at once for cleaning.

Everything except the motor mount comes in today, and hopefully the motor mount will be here by Thursday or Friday. If all goes well, I'll be mounting the battery tray on Friday and trying to assemble it Friday night for a test run out at Vertigo! 

I'm like a kid waiting for Christmas right now!!!! LOL


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## jasonwipf (Feb 23, 2009)

It'll work just fine CV hope ya like it man. ;-)


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## Big Phil (Apr 27, 2007)

Nice cv..After you run it you'll throw rocks at your nitro..


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

Ran the finished car today. The Nitro car is definitely more "flickable" because of the weight. 

I was VERY happy with the fact that it came off the track after 20 minutes of running and all it needed for cleaning was dusting off with the air compressor! From a maintenance stanpoint, these things will definitely make you consider selling off all your nitro equipment!


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## wily (Oct 14, 2005)

CV...I see you are signed up for e- buggy on the 13th.


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## jasonwipf (Feb 23, 2009)

Courtney Vaughan said:


> Ran the finished car today. The Nitro car is definitely more "flickable" because of the weight.


What is "flickable" like a booger on you finger you want to get rid of by flicking it off? You wanna get rid of your Nitro already?


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

Jason, I will neither confirm/deny that I went straight back to work and made a list of all the nitro things I could sell and what I needed to buy to go full-time electric..............


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## Big Phil (Apr 27, 2007)

Courtney Vaughan said:


> Jason, I will neither confirm/deny that I went straight back to work and made a list of all the nitro things I could sell and what I needed to buy to go full-time electric..............


Another one for the Dark side..:mpd:


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## nelson6500 (Jun 8, 2007)

Courtney Vaughan said:


> Jason, I will neither confirm/deny that I went straight back to work and made a list of all the nitro things I could sell and what I needed to buy to go full-time electric..............





Big Phil said:


> Another one for the Dark side..:mpd:












:biggrin::biggrin:


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

LMAO!

All I'm saying is that it's tempting. 

Given the amount of time I have in my life at this point, I'm having a hard time moving up from the mid-pack point, and am open to anything that will allow less maintenance and more time on the track so I can practice and actually make some progress with my driving! If it means giving up that COOL-ARSE nitro sound/smell/wow-factor, then so be it! I want to get better........period. And that takes time and practice..........again, something I'll get 3 times more of with an electric than I currently do with a nitro.

I DEFINITELY see the benefits initially, but I need to try a race with an E-buggy before I go and take the plunge. Trying to get a new battery for the next HARC race so I can give it a whirl.


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

I also now realize how a lot of these new-comers to our local racing that got an e-buggy got so good so quick! Charge, practice, charge, practice, charge, practice.............


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## jasonwipf (Feb 23, 2009)

Courtney Vaughan said:


> LMAO!
> 
> All I'm saying is that it's tempting.
> 
> Given the amount of time I have in my life at this point, I'm having a hard time moving up from the mid-pack point, and am open to anything that will allow less maintenance and more time on the track so I can practice and actually make some progress with my driving! If it means giving up that COOL-ARSE nitro sound/smell/wow-factor, then so be it! I want to get better........period. And that takes time and practice..........again, something I'll get 3 times more of with an electric than I currently do with a nitro.


My thoughts exactly a year ago and you are right about it. 20 min practice per pack with little to no fuss is a cool thing ta boot.


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## Bigj (Jul 22, 2007)

Well Boys and Girls it offical just ordered all the parts to convert my losi 2.0 to elec.Looks like i'll be saving a tree to LOL


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## jasonwipf (Feb 23, 2009)

Bigj said:


> Well Boys and Girls it offical just ordered all the parts to convert my losi 2.0 to elec.Looks like i'll be saving a tree to LOL


grats man.


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