# misssing out o fFreeport



## dallasrick (Jan 5, 2005)

Just saw on the news, a man and his 17 year old son from Houston, fishing on a 28 foot Mako, left Freeport Friday, supposed to return Saterday, have not made it back yet. Truck and trailor still in Freeport. Anyone heard anything about this? I am wishing them good luck.


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## Crabby-D (Jun 15, 2004)

I wish them a safe return also. Keep us posted if you hear anything.


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## rambunctious (May 30, 2004)

*missing*

If they are missing a FLOAT PLAN, would help the search a bunch.
LOl

Terry


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## Bobby (May 21, 2004)

I understand they found the boat but not the people


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## bigdaddyriverrat (May 24, 2004)

Does anyone know who it is? Say a prayer that they are found safe.


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## Hydrocat (Jun 30, 2004)

Here is a link to the story, but does not add much.........http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/news/041105_local_boaters.html


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## manintheboat (Jun 1, 2004)

rambunctious said:


> If they are missing a FLOAT PLAN, would help the search a bunch.
> LOl
> 
> Terry


I agree. We can all learn from this. File a float plan. An EPIRB would have helped here as well.

But I cannot think of any reason why a "LOL" would be remotely appropriate in this thread. Maybe I am missing something. ***?


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## Scott (May 24, 2004)

Looks like an Lo(i) to me - not sure what that means but I'm pretty sure they didn't mean "LOL"


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## Crossroads (May 21, 2004)

The report says they planned on returning Saturday night. The seas really kicked up Saturday afternoon. Hanging onto a suddenly overturned boat in windy conditions and high seas can be impossible if you land up wind, just can't swim fast enough to catch the boat. Hopefully they made it to a rig.


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## Scott (May 24, 2004)

One of the most common problems early in the year with trailered boats is to forget the plug. Usually, no problems are truly experienced until you get out somewhere and stop. Then, the trouble starts and it starts fast. Not sure what happened here, but I hope we hear more and I hope these folks make it. Unfortunately, at this stage, it doesn't look very good. If they had made it to a rig, we probably would have heard about it by now.


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## TXPalerider (May 21, 2004)

Stories like this make me sick to my stomach. It is so tragic. Say a prayer for the missing persons and there families.


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## backlash (May 29, 2004)

He is a freind of mine that lives near us. We have fished together many times. He is a very experianced offshore fisherman but has been known to go out when conditions are not exactly favorable. I think the news has it wrong and there was actually three poeple on the boat, and the 17 year old is not his son but a freind from the neiborhood. I hope they are OK but things are not getting any calmer out there. Let's keep them in our prayers, and if we hear anything I'll let ya'll know.


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## Crabby-D (Jun 15, 2004)

Bummer.


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## Captn C (May 21, 2004)

Thats sad news!

Backlash,

What year was the Mako?

FYI-The USCG has a recall on on 98 and newer 28' Mako's, but I've heard ealier models have problems too.


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## Captfry (May 21, 2004)

Backlash, please let their family know we are all thinking about them. With hopes of hearing the best of news.


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## manintheboat (Jun 1, 2004)

Captn C said:


> Thats sad news!
> 
> Backlash,
> 
> ...


It's sad, but that was one of the first things that came to mind when I saw 28' Mako.

Prayers going out to the families for sure. That is a total tragedy. Unless they crawled up on a rig, that is way too much time to be in the water for there to be anything but a bad ending.


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## Captn C (May 21, 2004)

There has been a number of sinkings of mid and upper 20 foot Mako's and I guess it was just a matter of time before someone got hurt.....if this was a late 90's or later Tracker Marine built Mako.


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## Muddskipper (Dec 29, 2004)

Just found out that the 17 year old son had a friend with him. This Friend of his is actually the step-son of one of my co-workers. 

So now there is 3 missing from what I understand.

We hear about this on occasion but when it impact those near us, you look at it from a different perspective.


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## Over the Edge (May 21, 2004)

Another thing to consider is fishing this time of year as opposed to May thru August. There just arent many boats heading offshore yet and if you have a problem, chances are there isnt anyone tied off to a nearby platform or somebody running within eye sight or radio distance. We left Friday night (in good weather) and fished most of the day Saturday and never saw another boat on the water except for a few tankers. No fishing boats (recreational or commercial), no crew boats or supply boats, no shrimp boats or anything. You cant rely on VHF to hail someone, so you better consider an EPIRB and liferaft. I kick myself for fishing all these years without one.


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## backlash (May 29, 2004)

I am not sure exactly what year model the boat is I beleive it is a 98 or 99. He bought the hull from an insurance company because the boat was in a sling and the rear strap broke submerging the engines. Apperently the insurance totaled the boat and sold the hull. He then purchased 97 model 225 horse Johnsons and had them put on the boat then performed a littled clean up on the boat and had an awsome ride for about $27,000.00. He has ran that boat for about 4 years now with no trouble what so ever. Then 2 weeks ago he bought a pair of used 250 horse Yamahas and put those motors on. I remember questioning his reasons for replacing motors that had served him so well. When they found the boat one motor was up and one motor was down and I sure hope that motor troubles was not the cause for this accident. The Yamahas are 2001 models with 130 hours each on em. As far as I know there were three poeple on the boat Johny, Scotty, and the 17 year old that I did not know personally. Another freind's son who is 16 or 17 wanted to go but his dad wouldn't let him because he thought the wheather this weekend was unpredictable at best. So far we havn't heard any updates. My wife has spoken to Scotty's and Johny's wives and they are doing OK right now but as more time passes the less chance we have of a good ending. I hope that Johny's experiance gets him and his crew through this, as he has logged many an hour out in the open water and has had to overcome some sticky situations in the past. I'll pass on ya'lls well wishes to the families and please keep them in your prayers.


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## greg0210 (Aug 19, 2004)

*interesting link for EPIRB's*

http://www.boatus.com/foundation/EPIRB/ a captain may rent the EPIRB's for $50.00 for a week, this includes shipping there and back. $50.00 is not to much to spend for a good piece of mind and safty for your crew aboard. Thought you guys might like to know about this.

Thoughts and prayers go out to the families and crew.

Greg0210


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## CaptBill (Jul 8, 2004)

This is always so sad to hear . My heart really goes out to their families. 
Is it me or does it seem we have had alot of heart aches in the fishing communities along the coast already this year. 
Bill is wanting a EPRIB this year dont think I will argue with him now. 
Keep us posted on all the updates.
Prayers and Hugs to the families and Friends of these men,
Mother nature sure can be cruel at times.
Lynn


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## k1902 (May 24, 2004)

Everyone be sure to Pray and believe that all is OK and will only return safely. Without belief prayer is less powerfull.


kg


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## Crabby-D (Jun 15, 2004)

From the Houston Chronicle:

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/metropolitan/3128619


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## bluewater bear (May 24, 2004)

my dad and I ALWAYS keep our epirb and emergency stuff onboard. we also have an inflatable raft that u tie off to a cleat or rail and toss the whole thing over. it then inflates. but ditch bags (extra gps/epirb,compass little med kit) are essental when u are going offshore. i hope to god that they find those guys and my thoughts and prayers are with everyone who has been affected by this.


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## esCape (May 25, 2004)

*epirb rental*

Issue I've always had with renting the boatus epirb is who can plan a Gulf offshore trip in advance enough to rent the epirb and get it shipped? Normally the weather window trips come together kind-of quickly.

Now if the coast guard or somebody in the local ports, with maybe extended hours would rent them, that would work .....


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## Over the Edge (May 21, 2004)

If you only fish 1 time per year offshore, I would reccommend buying the EPIRB. It only takes 1 trip for something to go wrong and you could lose your life and your crews life. $700 bucks is freaking cheap insurance!!! I never use to run with an EPIRB in the past. Too lazy to do the research and go out and buy one I guess. I am thankful I have been lucky and was never stranded or in distress. Its painful to hear stories of fellow Blue Water anglers like these in losing their life in a seaworthy boat like a Mako. And a large boat at that - 28 feet??


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## jtburf (May 26, 2004)

Gang I in know way want this to become a sales thread but for those that are uninformed about epribs and Rafts ... please look here ...
http://www.acrelectronics.com/product.html#2
and also at rafts !!!
http://www.switlik.com/

Gang we all leave people and items back on land that expect us to return ... 
lets do our best to return to them!...
John


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## TXPalerider (May 21, 2004)

backlash said:


> ..............When they found the boat one motor was up and one motor was down .............


Definitely, one motor up seems to indicate some sort of engine trouble.

In what condition/position did they find the boat? Swamped? Upsidedown? Just floating? Any idea?


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## Freshwaterman (May 21, 2004)

Are these personal EPIRB's any good?

http://www.boatersland.com/acr2766.html


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## Capt. Vic (Feb 17, 2005)

*Newspaper story*

*3 missing after weekend fishing trip in Gulf
Copyright 2005 Houston Chronicle*

The U.S. Coast Guard is searching for three Houston fishermen after their capsized boat was found in the Gulf about 30 miles southeast of Freeport.

The trio -- John Zimerman, 51; Scott Keller, 41; and Austin Childs, 17 -- and their dog were headed out for a recreational fishing trip Friday and planned to return Saturday, the Coast Guard said.

A civilian offshore helicopter noticed their 28-foot boat around 2 p.m. Sunday.

The truck and trailer used to haul the boat were still parked at a boat launch in Freeport today, officials said.


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## jtburf (May 26, 2004)

*Personal Epribs*



Goggleye said:


> Are these personal EPIRB's any good?
> 
> http://www.boatersland.com/acr2766.html


 Yes they are a good units and far better than nothing !!

Don't forget a High quailty OFFSHORE PFD !!!!!

John


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## Freshwaterman (May 21, 2004)

I'm speachless.

Prayers sent


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## KevinA (May 22, 2004)

This incident has really struck home with me, as I am sure with most everyone else that fishes offshore waters.

I hope and pray that by some type of miracle that all three fishermen are found alive, if they dont have a life raft I dont know how they could fight off Hypothermia for more than two to four hours with 68 to 69 degree water.

I purchased a life raft, epirb, sat phone, and other safety equipment last year and when I was done I wondered to myself if the expense was worth it.

I now know it was, if only for peace of mind.

I hope I never have to use any of it, but if I do, its there.

everyone that fishes offshore needs to bite the bullet and purchase this equipment, your life and your crews life may depend on it.

if you cant afford the expense all at once start with an e-pirb at minimum, then get the rest as soon as you can afford it. 

dont just talk about being safe, do it now and use this incident as motivation to be as safe as possible should something go wrong on your vessel. 

Later,

Kevin


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## Slightly Dangerous (May 21, 2004)

Before everyone jumps off the deep end on this thread it would be proper to consider that Epirbs, life rafts, jackets, and everything else are no good at all if you can't get to them or have no time to get to them in an accident. They may have had some or all of those items but had no time to use them.

Accidents that would overturn a boat are usually so catastrophic that one minute you're fine and the next minute you're in the water. The best laid plans mean nothing.

I pray that they are okay.


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## gostomskij (Jan 14, 2005)

Team Sponge said:


> Before everyone jumps off the deep end on this thread it would be proper to consider that Epirbs, life rafts, jackets, and everything else are no good at all if you can't get to them or have no time to get to them in an accident. They may have had some or all of those items but had no time to use them.
> 
> Accidents that would overturn a boat are usually so catastrophic that one minute you're fine and the next minute you're in the water. The best laid plans mean nothing.
> 
> I pray that they are okay.


Agreed! This goes along the same line as the "best" PFD is the one you WEAR! That being said, my prayers go to the families of those missing.


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## bp fishin(kat-a-lac) (May 21, 2004)

*missing*

My prayers go out to the families. I sure hope everything turns out ok.

The above post(team sponge?) made a very good observation.


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## ChickFilet (May 20, 2004)

*Going off the deep end*



Team Sponge said:


> Before everyone jumps off the deep end on this thread it would be proper to consider that Epirbs, life rafts, jackets, and everything else are no good at all if you can't get to them or have no time to get to them in an accident.


 I believe that "going off the deep end" in a situation like this is totally appropriate considering how many of the posters do not have all of the equipment you listed. If we go off the deep end and it ends up saving someone's life, I believe it is the right way to go.

God be with those men, their families, and every single one of us who go out there to touch the sky.


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## Over the Edge (May 21, 2004)

Team Sponge,

Everyone should consider a place to mount their EPIRB with a hydrostatic release. If your boat sinks quickly and you are not able to reach it, it will release when the boat sinks, float to the surface, and begin transmitting. Help should be on the way soon.


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## Slightly Dangerous (May 21, 2004)

My reference to "going off the deep end" was in response to the ones that have questioned whether they are yet alive or that perhaps they did not have proper safety equipment when we just don't know yet.

As for Epirbs...I think every new boat sold should have one mounted. It should be mandatory from the manufacturer.


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## gundoctor (May 20, 2004)

Over the Edge said:


> Team Sponge,
> 
> Everyone should consider a place to mount their EPIRB with a hydrostatic release. If your boat sinks quickly and you are not able to reach it, it will release when the boat sinks, float to the surface, and begin transmitting. Help should be on the way soon.


Not if it gets trapped under the hull when the boat capsizes. Your high dollar EPIRB could wind up as just one more useless piece of junk floating up against the deck as the capsized hull goes to bottom.
I'm not saying don't get one, or any of the other safety equipment, What I am saying is, don't let EPIRB or any other piece of gear give you a false sense of security that gets you in trouble. If you are 100 Nm off shore and need help, its going to be a while before help gets there and you may not have that much time.
The best safety equipment on any boat, is the gray matter between the Captain and crews ears.


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## Tall1fin (Jun 3, 2004)

Take if from someone who has been on a boat that capsized......It kind of works like this...at least in my one experience. Its 2:00 am and your kind of awake but drifting off and your boat is just brim full with fish caught during the day and evening. You've had chum off the rear cleat for hours and your about to nod off when one of your "green" crew wakes up from inside the cuddy and wonders if the ice chest is suppose to be floating.

You internally sound the alarm and quickly awake from your slumber and look down and sure enough over a foot of water in the cuddy. You go straight to the bilge pump and strip the wire bare and jam it into the battery and it starts pumping out like a fire hose. You feel a sense of relief that that "small" problem has been solved but realize now that the deck is all wet and lures, rigging and just about anything that floats is in fact floating. Unbeknownst to you...while your head was in the motor people have been milling around the boat without any thought to balancing weight etc. (in other words 2 people next to each other looking over the side like a stranded motorist looks under the hood with no idea what to do or not do) and have dipped the gunnel into the Gulf a couple of times and allowed a couple of quick waves of water into the boat.

This all happens in 1-3 minutes. By this time your crew is panicked and not following any instructions and cannot even manage to get hold of much less put on their life jackets. Hopefully, you will have a 10 year old that has a good head like I did and he will hand out the jackets to the panicked adults.. By this time water is rushing in like the Colorado rapids and you inform the crew that we are going in the water and ask the person next to the radio to send a distress call. But dont count on it they will possible be too panicked to be able to tell you their name and the next thing your catipaulted into the water and 20' from your overturned hull and your swimming in 200 lbs of fresh fish and bait with lures and hooks everywhere as well as every concievable item that floats in your boat.

SO IF YOU FIND YOURSELF IN THIS POSITION KNOW THAT IT IS ALWAYS WORSE THAN YOU THINK IT IS AND SEND OUT A DISTRESS SIGNAL BEFORE ITS TOO LATE. YOU CAN ALWAYS RETRACT IT!

*One of the first things to do is throw a long rope out so if you do go down current you can grab the rope and get back to the boat!*

I hope none of you have to go thru this but if you do remember it happens fast not like you saw on the movie "Titanic".

George


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## Santiago (May 21, 2004)

The whole thing is a nightmare scenario. I've lost several good friends overboard. I've been thinking about them all day. My heart goes out to those guys and their families.


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## Carp (May 21, 2004)

tallfin,

just wondering what boat was you were in that capsized??

Justin


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## Captfry (May 21, 2004)

Tall1fin,

You are not alone. Although I was in Toledo Bend Res. when my Skeeter went out from under me. The boat was tied up to the pier when a storm came up and I was asked to move the boat to a cove 300yds away. By the time I reached the boat, water was over the subfloor. I put on my lifevest as it was already on the seat from fishing earlier. Turned on the bilge pumps, started up the motor and managed to untie the boat after the water was no longer covering the floor, but still had some in the bilge. Headed into 3-4 footers at an angle to get out far enough to ride them back in to the cove. Well after running around that morning and now low on fuel in one tank, which I didn't think about switching until, You guessed it I ran out of fuel. This is where things went south. When the motor died one swell came over the transom and I ran to the bow and lowered the trolling motor to bring the bow back into the wind. After I did that I went back and switched tanks, primed the bulb, and attemped to restart the motor. By that time the transom was facing the oncoming swells and I took two more over the transom and the boat capsized. It's very difficult to comprehend what all is taking place in that very short time (1-2min). At least I managed to get out far enough that the swells carried the Skeeter into the cove that I planned on driving into. Other fisherman witnessed the entire event and help me filp it back over and towed me to the ramp to load it up after the storm passed. As a result of this event, I lost ever thing that was in the boat including the boat itself due to it beating up againts the rocks on the way in. Things I learned are to have your lifejackets on or readily accessible and not to own a bass boat with two seperate fuel tanks.

*As Tall1fin said, call first to get help on the way. It's better to have someone coming to help and for them to find out later you were OK and they were not needed. Than not to be OK and no one coming to assist.*

Not to undermind the event that has taking place, but to share an experience so that others may learn from it. Our hearts, thoughts, and prayers go out to the Fisherman and their Families.


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## Corey D (Jul 21, 2004)

*khou*

khou.com has the sory and a video they said the hull has a visable hole in the hull, what could they possibly hit ot there to cause a hole big enough to bo seen from a helicopter? god bless them i will keep them in my prayers, as i am sure everyone who has seen this post are doing the same.

god bless

corey


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## Captfry (May 21, 2004)

Things to hit, anything you can think of. The biggest item I have wittnessed was a timber or telephone pole about 1-1 1/2 feet in dia. and about 30'-40' long. Just below the surface with water breaking on top. At first I was hoping it was a whale shark so I could take a pic.


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## cfred (Jun 13, 2004)

First and foremost my prayers go out to the fishermen and their families. I hope and pray all is well.

That being said, considering the considerable danger involved in offshore and for that matter inshore fishing, why is there not a regulation demanding that some of this, if not all, safety equipment is standard with the purchase of a boat? I know this only helps with the purchase of a new boat but the cost of some of these items compared to the total cost are literally a few dollars added on to a payment.

Considerring the reports it sounds like this was a catostrophic collision with a foreign object so it may not have helped in this situation, but it would in many others. Where is the accountability for these manufacturers, hell, it's more money in their pockets any ways. The same should apply for inshore boats also.

Again, I hope and pray for the best, but these kinds of occurences should not be for naught no matter the results. God help these brave souls and their families. If there is anything the TTMB family can do, do not hesitate to ask...


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## Steelersfan (May 21, 2004)

Prayers go out to the fisherman and their families for their safe return.


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## Argo (May 21, 2004)

There was a dude that used to post on here that lost a 39' fountain in the galveston ship channel in under a couple of minutes after hitting a submerged telephone pole or tree. He said he hit it and the thing just went down like nothing. He had 3 on board, one being in a wheel chair and they all managed to make it to safety and get saved by the coast guard which was nearby due to the location of the accident. We hit something in a 26' mako last year that tore a 2x4' piece off the bottom of the boat about 20 miles out. No water was taken on though.


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## Arlon (Feb 8, 2005)

Argo said:


> We hit something in a 26' mako last year that tore a 2x4' piece off the bottom of the boat about 20 miles out. No water was taken on though.


Possibly another advantage to having a "slow" boat. A little more time to see things before I hit them, maybe less damage when I do. This whole sad affair has me rethinking some of my accessory priorities...

And I really don't care who laughs at me for wearing my PFD when running anymore!

Prayers aloft... Arlon


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## bigdaddyriverrat (May 24, 2004)

Is it just me or does anyone else see a need here for some type of PFD/Personell locator? Especially in instances where kids are involved. I understand that there are E-pirbs but if you are 5 miles from the boat wreckage E-pirb ain't much good.


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## ReefDonkey (Jul 1, 2004)

Container vessels lose their cargo all the time....How would you like to be running out friday night in calm seas and smash into a 40' container at 30 knots....ripping a hole in the bottom of your boat and tearing up your stbd motor, and possible tossing everyone in the drink. Not to mention having a panicked 80# dog climbing all over you in the ocean. Very sad. Things happen very fast....especially at night.


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## Tall1fin (Jun 3, 2004)

Carp said:


> tallfin,
> 
> just wondering what boat was you were in that capsized??
> 
> Justin


It was several years ago and the boat was a 25' Hydrosport with twins. My point as also mentioned by others on this board is that things can go from Dry to Wet in just a matter of minutes. Why its important to keep your wits about you, maintain your equipment, and keep the alcohol to a minimum.

George


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## Vee3 (Mar 15, 2005)

SO, how did you get out of the water? Did the distress call get out in time? I'm new to this and next thing on my list is an e-pirb.



Tall1fin said:


> It was several years ago and the boat was a 25' Hydrosport with twins. My point as also mentioned by others on this board is that things can go from Dry to Wet in just a matter of minutes. Why its important to keep your wits about you, maintain your equipment, and keep the alcohol to a minimum.
> 
> George


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## BradP (May 24, 2004)

Reefdonkey, just to clarify container vessels do not lose thier cargo all the time as they have locking mechanisms on all 4 cornersof each container. In fact it is a rarity and only happen if the vessel has gone thru a typhoon or hurricane like conditions. I would say that tree trunks and mooring ropes from oil/gas operations provide the worse floating debris.

Prayers go out to finding those on board on a rig or attached to a piece of the boat alive.


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## Arlon (Feb 8, 2005)

Any updates on this?


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## ReefDonkey (Jul 1, 2004)

BradP


Sorry for using the language "all the time" about containers getting lost.....I should have clarified that between 3,000 and 10,000 go overboard each year. That would have been more accurate. Sorry for misleading the forum.


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## Bret (May 21, 2004)

Prayers go out to their family and friends..

I hate to see reports like this.. I guess we all need to reevaluate our emergency equipment, their accessability and utility, and maybe do some drills or the like with our crews.. or at least make sure that everyone onboard know how to make a distress call and give out gps coordinates. etc...and or deploy epirb..

I hope and pray they are found alive..


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## Argo (May 21, 2004)

The posters name was CHogg that lost his boat last summer if any of you remember. He dropped off the forum almost immediately after it happened. I have not heard any follow up on it, anyone know. I hope these guys have as good of an outcome as chogg did in the fact that he had is life and that of is crew


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## BradP (May 24, 2004)

Reefdonkey, actually the number is way under 2,000 cntrs (lol 99.9% of stats made up on internet are all bs) and when you consider the amount of containers moved and all the oceans on the globe it is all relative. Since most traffic to and from USA is under more regulations, your overboard containers within US waters is probably only 10 a year and those would be mostly from CA to Hawaii waters with the typhoon and freak waves and probably all of those sink within a day or 2 (containers are not watertight). Your probably 20-30 times more likely to snag a mooring rope from a platform or a tree trunk than to see a half floating non watertight container.


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## rick Vallone (Mar 24, 2005)

Call Triad Marine in Kemah, for your life rafts or EPIRB # 281-334-0815 Good luck out there


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## johnnyjack (Oct 4, 2004)

Bret said:


> Prayers go out to their family and friends..
> 
> I hate to see reports like this.. *I guess we all need to reevaluate our emergency equipment, their accessability and utility, and maybe do some drills or the like with our crews.. or at least make sure that everyone onboard know how to make a distress call and give out gps coordinates. etc...and or deploy epirb..*
> 
> I hope and pray they are found alive..


 The best advice I have yet to see!!!!
I also agree with the Triad Marine recc. Very good/helpful people. Mike is an awesome person.


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## Ernest (May 21, 2004)

Good info for both private boat owners and folks seeking charters. In addition to asking about permits when I go out on a charter or a buddy's boat, I think I will start asking more detailed questions about emergency equipment as well (personal eperbs for the guests, Eperb for the boat, life rafts, ect.) 

I seem to recall a guy falling off a cruise ship in Feb. a couple years back that had an amazing survival. Nevertheless, the hypothermia is a major issue in the winter and can be easily forgotted when you are fishing in the sun in shorts way off shore. 

I hope these guys make it through this.


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## Captfry (May 21, 2004)

That info should be provided to you when you board a charter boat if not then ask and when you have guest on your own boat, you should inform them as well. I always inform my crew where everything (safety equipment) is and discuss operations of the VHF. It only takes five min. and even if you have been out with me before you will hear it again the next time you board. I often think about putting a placard by the radio with a step-by-step, comment-by-comment instructions. I will make one now, knowing that people may not remember what you might have said during an actual emergency. Be safe!


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## txjeep (Aug 9, 2004)

Captfry said:


> I always inform my crew where everything (safety equipment) is and discuss operations of the VHF. It only takes five min. and even if you have been out with me before you will hear it again the next time you board.


I do the same thing before the boat gets lowered into the water.

I have been watching this thread closely with the hopes that we get some good news. My prayers will remain with these men and their familes.


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## speckle-catcher (May 20, 2004)

Ernest said:


> Good info for both private boat owners and folks seeking charters. In addition to asking about permits when I go out on a charter or a buddy's boat, I think I will start asking more detailed questions about emergency equipment as well (personal eperbs for the guests, Eperb for the boat, life rafts, ect.)


The first things I locate when a guest on someone's boat going offshore are lifejackets, fire extinguisher and Epirb. If I can't find them easily, I ask.


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## limey (Feb 25, 2005)

I don't see any LOL in this. If it is LOi I don't know what that means, what I do know is that I was involved in a search for 2 teenagers lost on Lake Livingston 2 years ago. The young girl was a freind of my family. The search was very emotional so I cannot imagine what it would feel like to have any immediate family lost at sea.

My thoughts and prayers are with the families & pray that all are found alive & well, including the dog.


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## Slightly Dangerous (May 21, 2004)

Limey, I know the poster that made the comment you are referring to and I know for absolute certainty that no ill will or flippant humor was intended. Remember that email or a forum is the worst possible place to express yourself. What you are thinking or trying to say may wind up as something totally different on the computer. No one can see your face to judge your emotions. Whatever you may think...please give the benefit of doubt.
He is a great person, fisherman and friend.


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## wiley199 (May 22, 2004)

My heart and prayers are with there families. I shudder to think about the hundreds or thousands of times ive been out in the big pond with my kids, enough said. God Bless


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## DBLHKUP (Jan 25, 2005)

Has anyone got a recent update? I read the post yesterday evening and thought about the crew several times today. Men this is REAL and could happen to us at any given moment out there. I pray for their families and the crews survivial.

Over the years, I've come across all kinds of Floatsum out there. The one that got my attention is the partially submerged tree trunk, 12" diameter and 10' long. Thanks to the gull that decided to make it his resting spot; making it visible. It was located dead ahead of us. Also came across a huge piece of rig rope about 5" diameter. This one I saw at the last minute and reacted by trottling back all the way to nuetral, trimmed the motor up and there the rope was resting on the skegg, no harm...LUCKY! 

Think SAFETY!


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## mako (Nov 10, 2004)

I don't think that this is related but I it may be. I was out surfing today at Bob Hall Pier in Corpus Christi. I have also been keeping up with this story. The entire time I was in the water, there were Coast guard helicopters continually patrolling up and down the coast. There was also a coast guard plane that was cruising the coast as well as a coast guard boat and military helicopters. Might have been just doing maneuvers but thought I would see if that was a possibility.


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## Freshwaterman (May 21, 2004)

15 year old boy missing near Bob Hall pier. KTRK Ch 13 web site has the story.



mako said:


> I don't think that this is related but I it may be. I was out surfing today at Bob Hall Pier in Corpus Christi. I have also been keeping up with this story. The entire time I was in the water, there were Coast guard helicopters continually patrolling up and down the coast. There was also a coast guard plane that was cruising the coast as well as a coast guard boat and military helicopters. Might have been just doing maneuvers but thought I would see if that was a possibility.


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## agulhas (Jul 27, 2004)

i think the lol may be "lots of luck." still hope there is hope.


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## jhenneke (Jun 17, 2004)

when running @ night what type off device does everyone use? I know the consequences by still run before dawn in tournament and just use the lights but usually can only see 20feet will use 2 spotlights this year though. BTW @ 20 miles out of freeport I saw a refrigarator floating one time.

Hope the missing party is found


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## Freshwaterman (May 21, 2004)

I just tracked down the latest update(IT WAS A PAIN!). None of the local news station websites hardly say anything. The coast guards website says that they are still searching and that they searched all through the night last night. Monday they found a life vest matching the description of those onboard the boat. So far they have not found any of the ones missing or determined what caused the accident. Here is the direct link to the coast guards news site for our district. http://www.d8publicaffairs.com/external/index.cfm?cid=425&fuseaction=EXTERNAL.docview&documentID=68480
You may have to hit refresh to get the latest update. I am praying for a happy ending to all of this but I know that's almost impossible now. My thoughts and prayers go to the family and friends of those missing.
Billy


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## Captfry (May 21, 2004)

Billy, thanks for the update. Here is a direct link to the USCC news updateon the three men and a dog missing out of Freeport :http://www.d8publicaffairs.com/exte...&fuseaction=EXTERNAL.docview&documentID=68467.


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## limey (Feb 25, 2005)

Team Sponge, I agree with you that e-mails are the worst possible place to express ourselves. Agulhas mentioned that the lol could mean "lots of luck", I take your word on what you posted & he has the benefit of my doubt.


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## jsb223 (May 23, 2004)

What could have happened? The answer is just about anything you can imagine has happened or will happen when you venture offshore.

Mechanical failure, submerged obstruction, foul play, human error, or just plain bad luck.

As the search enters it's sixth day and nearly 6000 square miles, the chances for a happy ending are getting very slim.

I wonder...How, with so many people going offshore for work or recreation, does this not happen more often.

In the commercial offshore industry, the rules are in place accompanied by fines for those that decide to stretch the limits of those rules.

Maybe it's time for a crackdown and some new rules. With the technology available and getting cheaper by the minute maybe personal epirb's should be required for anyone going outside the 3 miles line.

I saw a new mini epirb available for $149 the other day. Just about any boat going offshore will spend that much or more for bait!

Now I don't like government intervention into my personal life any more than the next guy, but when there are minor children involved like the current case, and the cost of search and rescue can easily get into the millions, then maybe we need to think about adding some new requirements.

The recreational offshore fishing community needs to be at the forefront of this effort.


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## Cat O' Lies (May 21, 2004)

jsb223 said:


> I saw a new mini epirb available for $149 the other day. Just about any boat going offshore will spend that much or more for bait!


Those $149 mini epirbs may be obsolete in a couple of years due to the frequency change from 243 MHZ to 406 MHZ!!


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## Crossroads (May 21, 2004)

More regulations has never solved anything. The oceans are a big unforgiving place and stuff happens out there. The boat that went down may have had reasonable safety gear. Staying out when a weather front is moving in may have been too much to overcome when Murphy strikes. The last thing I want is more fed or state requirements.


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## Casey C (Dec 7, 2004)

A good Epirb costs around $600. A small price to pay for a little piece of mind. When it comes to boat expenses, it is not much. I think it should be required. I have one on my boat and I don't have to.


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## Dutch Treat (May 21, 2004)

"


jsb223 said:


> Maybe it's time for a crackdown and some new rules. With the technology available and getting cheaper by the minute maybe personal epirb's should be required for anyone going outside the 3 miles line.".........
> *********************************************************
> 
> Why three? Why not the end of the jetties? Leaving the dock?
> ...


Sorry, you will never convince me that the government can do a better job of looking after my safety than I can. We do not need more government noses in our business!! Not today, not ever!

Offshore fishing is inherently risky. So is mountain climbing, flying a plane, scuba diving, skydiving, driving on Houston freeways, etc, etc, ad nauseum. Live with it or don't do it.

End of rant.................Bob


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## jtvinny (Apr 8, 2005)

I have to say that Bob hit the nail on the head. Those are my exact thoughts on the subject. My heart goes out to the families-


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## Bucktail (Jun 18, 2004)

Dutch Treat said:


> "
> Sorry, you will never convince me that the government can do a better job of looking after my safety than I can. We do not need more government noses in our business!! Not today, not ever!
> 
> End of rant.................Bob


I may be a minority here, but I am not one of those that believes that all government is evil and everything the government does is bad. The truth is that there would be a lot more people hurt and killed in the absence of Coast Guard, OSHA, NTSB, etc. regulations.

Before mandatory seat belt laws, nobody I knew (including me) wore seat belts. Now it is rare to see someone who refuses to use them. I know many people who are alive today because of mandatory seat belt laws.


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## jsb223 (May 23, 2004)

Cat O' Lies said:


> Those $149 mini epirbs may be obsolete in a couple of years due to the frequency change from 243 MHZ to 406 MHZ!!


Two years @ 10 trips a year adds up to less than 8 dollars a trip...

That's the kind of thinking that gets folks killed..


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## Dutch Treat (May 21, 2004)

*Bucktail.........*



Bucktail said:


> I may be a minority here, but I am not one of those that believes that all government is evil and everything the government does is bad. The truth is that there would be a lot more people hurt and killed in the absence of Coast Guard, OSHA, NTSB, etc. regulations.
> 
> Before mandatory seat belt laws, nobody I knew (including me) wore seat belts. Now it is rare to see someone who refuses to use them. I know many people who are alive today because of mandatory seat belt laws.


****************************
I completely understand and respect your point of view, and I do not necessarily think you are in the minority. That we disagree is evident and I don't think either of us will lose any sleep over that fact.

However, I am not one of those that believes in the government encasing us in pillows and a safety net from womb to tomb. Where would you draw the line on regulations?

I cannot remember who said: "When you begin to give up freedom for security, you will soon have neither". I firmly believe that!

If all the risk were taken out of life, I don't think I would want to participate.....how incredibly boring.

All of that said, I do believe in safety offshore. I have all the suggested/required safety equipment and more. I have all the electronics I can reasonably put on my boat and try to stay current with technology.

I do not believe in reckless behavior.

Bob


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## not slim (Mar 21, 2005)

*Phase out of EPIRBs with certain Freq*

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/marcomms/gmdss/epirb.htm

_see dates in red_

121.5/243 MHz EPIRBs
These are the most common and least expensive type of EPIRB, designed to be detected by overflying commercial or military aircraft. Satellites were designed to detect these EPIRBs, but are limited for the following reasons:


Satellite detection range is limited for these EPIRBs (satellites must be within line of sight of both the EPIRB and a ground terminal for detection to occur),
Frequency congestion in the band used by these devices cause a high satellite false alert rate (99.8%); consequently, confirmation is required before search and rescue forces can be deployed,
EPIRBs manufactured before October 1989 may have design or construction problems (e.g. some models will leak and cease operating when immersed in water), or may not be detectable by satellite. Such EPIRBs may no longer be sold,
Because of location ambiguities and frequency congestion in this band, two or more satellite passes are necessary to determine if the signal is from an EPIRB and to determine the location of the EPIRB, delaying rescue by an average of 4 to 6 hours. In some cases, a rescue can be delayed as long as 12 hours.
COSPAS-SARSAT is expected to cease detecting alerts on 121.5 MHz, perhaps by 2008.
One November 3, 2000, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) announced that satellite processing 121.5/243 MHz emergency beacons will be terminated on February 1, 2009. Class A and B EPIRBs must be phased out by that date. The U.S. Coast Guard no longer recommends these EPIRBs be purchased. See the U.S. Coast Guard Media Advisory on this subject.


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## michaelbaranowski (May 24, 2004)

Dutch I think "When you begin to give up freedom for security, you will soon have neither". was from Mr. Ben Franklin.


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## Fishin-Inc (May 27, 2004)

*Chronicle*

The Chronicle said the Search has been stopped by the coast guard on the 
metro section? Inc


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## Freshwaterman (May 21, 2004)

i'd have to agree with bob , im not into communism very much ! no offense to the other guy but i'll take care of mine and you take care of yours i think we'll all be fine , you know i dont want to sound rude and god bless theyre souls but i never would have taken a trip 1: before watching the weather 2: if i had seen what it was going to be like i wouldnt have gone 3: coming from a former 261 mako owner i never would ever have taken a 17yr old kid on an overnight trip in a center console ! wow what mistakes , now that being said from the pictures it looks like the most of the problem was from the repair to the boat ! how sad i wish the best for the family and friends . see what i mean is if they had followed what most of us fisherman would call personal safety rules ( instilled by years of doing ) then i would bet they would be here now . 


god bless theyre souls


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## TXPalerider (May 21, 2004)

This is a real tragedy. I'm not for more government intervention either. Most know the risks involved with fishing deep. But, maybe there ought to be regulations to require, at the very least, there be personal epirb's for all minors aboard when going outside the 3 miles line along with wearing a pfd. Adults should know the risks and can make their own decisions. But, kids are another story. Maybe we should force the adults to make responsible decisions where the safety of minors are concerned. Similar to infants and toddlers being in car seats. Any thoughts on this?

Kingkiller, what pictures are you referring to?


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## esCape (May 25, 2004)

Wednesday's Brazoria county's The Fact stated

"Rostetter said Zimmerman lost a boat in the Gulf a few years ago and was rescued from an abandoned oil drilling platform."

Anybody have any info on that? WOW, to loose two boats out in the gulf seems like getting hit by lightning twice........


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## Dutch Treat (May 21, 2004)

michaelbaranowski said:


> Dutch I think "When you begin to give up freedom for security, you will soon have neither". was from Mr. Ben Franklin.


Thanks, Michael


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## Captn C (May 21, 2004)

WOW....I've always wondered what I'd do after being rescued if something like this happened.....I'm definitely a....if the horse bucks you off...you get back in the saddle again! So I would like to believe I would be right back out there....

I think I would be a bit more carful about overnighters with the weather reports we had for that Saturday!

A buddy and I are definitely re-thinking our overnight trip procedures.....


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## Dutch Treat (May 21, 2004)

*TxPalerider*



TXPalerider said:


> Kingkiller, what pictures are you referring to?


There are links in this thread...........
http://2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/showthread.php?t=19853

Bob


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## Levelwind (Apr 15, 2005)

I've been absent from these boards for a long time, but have lurked occassionally. First want to say thanks for all the great tips I've picked up on the threads, there are obviously some very experienced and knowledgeable guys (and Gals) on the site. Second is God bless the victims of this accident and their families. 

But I have to weigh in on the "Govt. intervention" issue. Like most, I generally don't like it. But epirbs, and even Gpirbs, have now become quite affordable. Considering there is no licensing requirement for private boat operators and the HUGE costs to the taxpayers AND (in many cases) the personal risk/danger often incurred by the Coasties or anyone else affecting a rescue in bad conditions, perhaps for offshore boats we should begin to think of these homing devices more like life jackets. 

If you, or I, choose to go offshore without them and risk it, that's our deal. But we so often take clueless passengers, children, dumb animals, etc. that in my opinion, the life jacket analogy works. I used to work for an ex CG pilot who had flown a LOT of hairy rescue missions at considerable risk to himself and his crew. I think perhaps we should do what is reasonable to make their jobs easier and safer.


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## Crossroads (May 21, 2004)

First of all it would have to be a Fed law to be of any significance and once you try that you may as well attach banning handguns because they obviously kill a lot more people than the offshore boats. I own an EPIRB and Liferaft but its not because some law says I have to. Come on, you want a safety check and breathalizer test at the jetties for boats leaving, that would be next.


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## myron (Oct 15, 2004)

mako said:


> I don't think that this is related but I it may be. I was out surfing today at Bob Hall Pier in Corpus Christi. I have also been keeping up with this story. The entire time I was in the water, there were Coast guard helicopters continually patrolling up and down the coast. There was also a coast guard plane that was cruising the coast as well as a coast guard boat and military helicopters. Might have been just doing maneuvers but thought I would see if that was a possibility.


I believe a teenager was missing while swimming in the surf around BHP.


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## hoosierplugger (May 24, 2004)

I don't post much but....

I get really burned up by all the second guessing and Monday morning quarterbacking that goes on around these types of incidents.

Looks like these guys paid the ultimate price irrespective of whether it was recklessness or a freak accident or a little of both.

If you can take something away from it, great. If not, then don't go on about how you would've done it differently.


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## MAKO 23 (Mar 19, 2005)

www.southbeltleader.com


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## Shaky (May 21, 2004)

Amen Hoosier!

We can all talk behind the scenes about what "we woulda" "they shoulda" or "I never..." but the sad fact remains there is Husbands and sons missing on basically an easy trip. When I had my little '17Whaler I took many a trip out 20 miles or so. They were MAJOR EXPEDITIONS and learning experiences. Then I hooked up with the likes of more experienced captains like Farmer Jim, McGolfer, BG. My little 20 mile jaunts were nothing compared to what these guys do with total confidence. 
The thing that really gets me with this situation, is the fact that regardless of whether or not these guys ever posted here, they are ONE OF US. Thirty miles ( a quick jaunt) out of Freeport! We will probably never know what happened out there. Who are WE to judge their actions? Undoubtedly an EPIRB would be a GREAT assest on any boat. But how many actually have one? Without a doubt if I ever am fortunate enough to own my offshore capable boat I will have one. I dont know about ya'll but this one hit WAY TOO CLOSE TO HOME. I have children at home that are counting on me being here for them for their trials and tribulations through life. I have my own close encounters on the oceans and bays of the world,, from Resurrection Bay in Seward Alaska to offshore Louisiana, I wont divulge them here, but the simple fact remains, WE DONT KNOW what happened out there, but they DO Need our thoughts and prayers, not our condemnation.

Brian


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## ChickFilet (May 20, 2004)

*Well said*



Shaky said:


> WE DONT KNOW what happened out there, but they DO Need our thoughts and prayers, not our condemnation.
> 
> Brian


 Has there been any confirmation on whether they had a life raft on board yet?


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## JOKERSWILD (May 21, 2004)

Sakey
well said .... they are in our prayers and in our hopes.....


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## Sidecutter (May 21, 2004)

*More info on Life jackets and lifeboat*

There was a post on TTMB eairlier today from one of Zimmermans friends who stated that 3 lifejackets were missing , 100 qt. plus igloo cooler Liferaft and the owners wallet that he kept in a locked compartment on the boat, the compartment was unlocked. This gives some hope that they were able to launch the liferaft and get PFDs on. I hope this is fact and that they are found soon.
prayers for the families and safety of the fishermen,
James


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## GimmeDeal (Mar 18, 2005)

Just bought an epirb for my Contender. This brought it home big time. I've always tried to do things as safely as possible but it's the Gulf of Mexico, not the lake. And I take people out who trust me to get them back and may or may not know the hazards. I think we all get a little complacent at times. 

Little boats (and we all have little boats) sink faster than big boats.


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## MakoT (Feb 22, 2005)

*TMOC message requesting help from boaters*

I received the following message on my Web site "Texas Mako Owners". We have sent this to all the members of our organization and expressed our deepest sympathy. I will set up an email [email protected] that may be used to contact her with information or assitance.

Message from contact form: http://www.texasmakoowners.com

I have three very dear friends and dog who are lost about 100 miles offshore and have been missing for almost a week now. They left in a 2000 MAKO 282. Because of the poor craftmanship and lack of thinking put into the making of this boat many families and friends of the missing are now suffering. I don't mean to be rude or sound condescending to anyone, but I would like to know if anyone would like to help in the searching. Congressman Tom Delay (Texas) has a blank check to pay for gas or whatever else is needed to help search for these three and their dog. The coast gaurd is trying to end the search, however as you I'm sure can understand, we don't want these three to be left unfound. Please help if you can! It would be greatly appreciated by a great multitude of people. Thank you for your time and I hope you will decide to help.
Name: Vanessa Selwyn

Post by Webmaster TMOC on behalf of Vanessa Selwyn


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## Ruff (May 21, 2004)

*Sea Survival Courses*

Due to the recent events, I thought the following information would be of interest to the TTMB family.



Because of my work I have to take a Sea Survival course this year (SSHESE). There is a place in Galveston that offers this course, and a couple of other courses that I believe would be of interest to some of you guys.



The website is *WWW.TEEX.Com* , Training: Marine Safety



The courses are: 

Course Number 301011 - Personal Survival at Sea - $ don't know, 1.5 day class (Wed and ½ day Thurs)

Course Number SSHESE - Sea Survival Helicopter Safety & Egress Training - $ 210, Class every Wednesday

Course Number OUTBRD - Outboard Motor Maintenance and Troubleshoot - $ 95, Fri and Sat Class


Details of the classes are as follows: 

Course Number 301011 - Personal Survival at Sea / 12 hour class



*Description*
This U.S. Coast Guard approved course is designed to provide personal survival training to seafarers. 

It encompasses sea survival and self-rescue and is intended to teach students the proper actions and survival techniques to ensure safety in the event of an emergency evacuation/abandonment from a vessel. It utilizes both lectures and practical in-water exercises. Proper use, location and inspection of survival equipment is covered with applicable demonstrations. 

Successful completion of this course will satisfy the requirements of 46 CFR 10.205(l)(1) and the requirements of Section A-VI/1 and Table A-VI/1-1 of the Seafarers' Training, Certification and Watchkeeping (STCW) Code. This course is one of the four components required for STCW Basic Safety Training.

*Prerequisites* None



*Topics*
Topics covered in the course include: 

Emergency situations

Life-saving appliances and equipment

Survival craft equipment

Value of training and drills

Personal protective clothing and equipment

Emergency readiness

Survival craft stations

Abandoning ship

In-water actions

Actions while aboard the survival craft

Main dangers to survivors

*Other Information* Class size: minimum 8 students

http://www.teex.com/teex.cfm?pageid=training&area=teex&Division=ESTI&Course=301011&templateid=14&navdiv=ESTI



Course Number SSHESE - Sea Survival Helicopter Safety & Egress Training, 8 hour class



*Description*
This one-day course is designed for all personnel who work in the offshore oil and gas industry. The course provides both lecture and practical training in sea survival and helicopter egress, with hands-on practice in the use of equipment.

*Prerequisites* None

*Audience* Offshore workers



*Topics*
Topics covered in the course include: 

Types of emergencies

Immersion suits

Station bills

Life rafts

Hyper/hypothermia

Helicopter egress

Personal flotation devices

Distress signaling

*Other Information* Class size: minimum 8 students 

http://www.teex.com/teex.cfm?pageid=training&area=teex&Division=CMTS&Course=SSHESE&templateid=14&navdiv=CMTS





Course Number OUTBRD - Outboard Motor Maintenance and Troubleshoot, 8 hour class



*Description*
This 8-hour core course emphasizes basic operating principles of all gasoline powered, outboard motors. Most boating enthusiasts want to enjoy their boat and motor without the hassles of break-downs and expensive repairs. By their very make-up and operating atmosphere, outboard motors will need specialized care to insure smooth, trouble-free running. Understanding the motor's basic operating procedure will help to define troubleshooting techniques. In addition, other information conveyed in this course will help the outboard motor owner set up a maintenance protocol that should help to eliminate many potential problems. This 8-hour course will cover basic outboard motor principles, routine maintenance and beginning troubleshooting protocols.

*Prerequisites* None



*Topics*
Topics covered in the course include: 

* New Engine Break-in 

* Daily Inspections 

* Monthly Inspections 

* Annual Inspections 

* Winter Storage 

* 2- Cycle Theory 

* Major Engine Components 

* Charging System 

* Fuel Systems 

* Troubleshooting (Rough Running Engine) 

* Troubleshooting (Overheating Engine) 

* Troubleshooting (Carburetor Problems) 

* Troubleshooting (Ignition System) 

* Troubleshooting (Engine Will not Turn Off) 

* Troubleshooting (Electrical Starting System) 

* Spark Plug Analysis 

* Prop, Trim and Steering Systems 

*Other Information* Class is held on Fridays and Saturdays at our center in Galveston, Texas. Contact Center for Marine Training and Safety to pre-register for the course.

Regards,
Ruff


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## agulhas (Jul 27, 2004)

is it possible that they had kicked up an engine and were trolling. they hit something in the water like a utility pole with cement. it was just enough to give those stress cracks the start they needed. the hull slowly filled up, they got out with the jackets and cooler. the boat rolled. 


speculation i believe is a valuable tool. it will keep us all thinking and hopefully safe.


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## CaptBill (Jul 8, 2004)

anyone heard anything yet? I heard NO CG is taking over..
Lynn
Still keeping my fingers crossed for them.


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