# Bait Ball Question



## FishNFam (Jun 24, 2010)

Fished out of Pt. Mansfield last weekend. We were playing around with the smacks outside the jetties, and we saw the bait doing something weird. The glass minnows were all balled in a really tight ball at the surface. The pelicans were sitting around and just casually dipping their bills in for a scoop, and the bait wouldn't move. Smacks were running through the balls, but not scattering them to hell & gone like they normally do.

Anyway, we just thought it was weird, and kept fishing the smacks--1/4 oz spoons ripped fast near the surface. Until my wife let her 1/4 oz spoon on a casting rod drop about halfway--bam, our first large Tarpon. Have caught a few in the 3 1/2-4' range, but this was our first big boy. Way too light a tackle, though, she fought him for an hour before he threw the hook. Not good at guessing size, but the next day we caught a 30# king that measured something like 52", and that Tarpon dwarfed the King.

So anyway I'm pretty dense--but I see the bait acting in a way we've not seen it before, like it was scared ******** of something down below, and then hook a big Tarpon like we've never hooked before. Was this just coincidence, or does the bait act differently if the Tarpon are around?


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## sharkbait-tx70 (Jun 28, 2009)

What you prob. saw were anchovies. The fish will ball the bait up. They will push it to the surface so they only have three sides to keep track of. This gives the birds a chance at the surface. I have seen ling,shark,tarpon and dolphin all working on the same bait ball. When you throw into the bait ball and the the lure sinks threw it the fish on the bottom of the school goes nuts thinking it is a wounded bait fish. I have seen some sailfish feeding in the same manor offshore. We jumped in with a mask and fins and were blown away with the show for about ten minutes until about a dozen large blacktips showed up. That was all I wanted to watch from the water.


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## Swells (Nov 27, 2007)

Some of the old-timers call them "boils" where the bait comes up, the birds come down, and these big fish start feeding in a frenzy. That's Indian style fishing there - you could darn near snag dinner.


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## FishNFam (Jun 24, 2010)

I understand the "boils"--does look like the water is boiling, the bait is scattered (I guess was originally in a ball), with fish blowing up everywhere & birds diving down on them. And, we usually pick up the smacks, Kings, skipjack, etc. here.

But these were different. Everything was much calmer, the birds were working the bait, but not in a frenzy. The pelicans were just sitting to the side, dipping their bills in. The smacks would zoom through, but not break up the ball like they usually do.

So I guess what I'm asking--is there a way to know when one sees birds/bait, what is working it? Because this just seemed different, and lo and behold the Tarpon were there. So does the bait act differently when different fish are around? Or was this just coincidence? Do the bigger gamefish--Tarpon, Sails, Dolphin, etc. tend to ball it up in more of a real tight ball, while the smaller jacks, smacks, etc. kind of corral it then scatter it (boil it)? Because that's the way it seemed to me this time, of course n=1 but I'll sure pay more attention to the black balls of bait in the future than I will to the boiling frenzy.....

Or put another way---when one sees birds working, does one just assume and hope the Tarpon are around, or is there a way to tell by the characteristics of the bait what type of fish is around? Because there are miles & miles of birds working/boils, do you look for the actual black balls of bait, condensed up?

Hope I'm making sense--now I think I'm just rambling but I can't wait to get back out there!


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## marc (May 21, 2004)

I'm not sure of a way to know whats under the bait by looking at it, but this time of year you should always assume that Tarpon are near those bait balls. We found a big ball a few years ago with jacks, smacks, kings, sharks and Tarpon all over and in it. We fished in that ball for an hour watching small Tarpon get drunk on the minnows without a Tarpon bite. Everything else would eat before the Tarpon could get a look at the lures. We drifted off the ball and put the lures deeper. Finaly got a 180 pounder to strike on a red and white **** pop. I guess she was following the chaos at a distance. Now we follow or troll from one ball to the other. It works for us... give it a try.


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## FishNFam (Jun 24, 2010)

Thank you guys! Okay--so I've got more follow up questions--please bear with me.

We've fished this type of action for several years. The kids absolutely go nuts over the smacks, bonito, etc. Its literally nearly every cast with a 1/4 oz spoon.

Okay, so as we fish these things, I see bigger fish on the sounder, and have always figured the big guys have to be around--but have NEVER hooked up until the other day. Tried live bait, dead bait, jigs, knife jigs, big spoons, Rapala Magnums, etc. Maybe just bad luck, maybe we are doing something wrong. Even drifted a live ribbonfish through the school the other day with nothing--and we killed the kings with live ribbonfish at the jetties. But it just seems that when they are keying in on the small bait, they are looking for small baits?

Until this time--when we let the small (1/4 oz) spoon finally get below the smacks, the big guy hit it. Of course our bigger rods can't cast those little spoons. So my follow up question is--in general--when the fish are feeding on small anchovies or glass minnows or whatever (like 1" long or so)---will the bigger fish hit a bigger jig/spoon like a **** pop? Now, to be fair, I haven't tried the **** pop, but haven't had any luck with other bigger jigs. It sure seems like the smacks in general are looking for the small spoons--even they slow down on the 1 oz spoons.


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## marc (May 21, 2004)

...put away of all those other lures and down size your **** pop. Fish it low and slow. Here's a pic of the 180 hooked on a 1oz **** pop tipped with a three inch white grub which had a half inch cut off the front. Good luck.


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## FishNFam (Jun 24, 2010)

marc said:


> ...put away of all those other lures and down size your **** pop. Fish it low and slow. Here's a pic of the 180 hooked on a 1oz **** pop tipped with a three inch white grub which had a half inch cut off the front. Good luck.


Wow! That's cool. That's just the information I am looking for. So again a couple follow up questions (I promise I'll be done soon):
1) I understand basically the **** pop principle---your pic shows the jig still attached--I thought they were to pop off. Do they just not pop off the hook sometimes?
2) Making a **** Pop--Where do you get the 1 oz jig heads? Does Academy usually carry them? I live South of Austin, fish in Port Mansfield and there aren't many saltwater tackle places around....
3) Do you use a leader? Looks like heavy Flourocarbon--how many of those do you lose to Kings & smacks? Do they tend to leave the **** Pops alone?
Thank you thank you!!! I'm really excited to be shortening our learning curve somewhat.


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## marc (May 21, 2004)

You can get alot of information on how to make and use **** pops on the tips page/forums at projecttarpon.com


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## Swells (Nov 27, 2007)

I fish a lot of styles but the **** Pop is very popular Florida Keys to Texas. It is mostly hook with a jig head and your choice of plastic, which is fairly long. Jigs with gold hairs seem to work too - no idea why they prefer gold colors to shiny chrome/white colors. My best luck is dawn and dusk to get them to bite.


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## jettytarpon (Sep 23, 2006)

Do you clip off the hook on the jighead when making **** pops? So that the only hook is the exposed circle?


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