# 2014 Yamaha SHO 4 stroke problem



## Sponge (Jun 22, 2004)

Anyone have a problem with theirs making oil??? Was in Baffin this weekend and motor started smoking very badly. A lot of white smoke coming from exhaust and cowling badly. Shut her down immediately. After taking cowling off noticed oil had splattered out if flame arrestor I believe it's called. Where your fuel and air are injected for combustion on top of the motor. Checked oil level and at least an inch above the full limit. Pretty sure I have fuel leaking into my oil. Decided to call for help and get towed in. Thank you Aubrey Black for towing me in. What a gentlemen for that would not take any money just asked to pay it forward. So anyone else have this problem??? Dropped off boat at AC's in Dickinson hopefully they do me right. Still under warranty. Amy help would be appreciated. 

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## jorgepease (Apr 14, 2011)

there is a mechanical diaphragm fuel pump, if that diaphragm gets cut, fuel gets into the oil. You can change it yourself pretty easy.


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## Kyle 1974 (May 10, 2006)

mine made oil in the first 10 hours, but it never smoked. You should be good though if you're still under warranty. I wouldn't sweat it. you paid for a warranty, and they'll fix you up.


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## capone (Feb 25, 2013)

You have oil blowing by the Piston rings. Did you follow the break in procedure when new? If your motor has less than 100 hours the rings still may not be seated properly. You have to trim down and keep the engine loaded. The smoke is coming from fuel burning off in the crank case. 


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## Sponge (Jun 22, 2004)

I bought it with 26 hours on the motor. Supposedly it was broke in properly. I have no idea. I know I rarely run wot. 

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## uscgnazzario (Feb 1, 2015)

Most of the "making oil" was caused by not running the motor hard from time to time. I know it sounds weird but the guys who arent propped to get enough rpms had more issues. Either way, you are covered under warranty. Mine made oil the first 40 hours.


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## SeaY'all (Jul 14, 2011)

Im on my 2nd SHO. The first was a 2011 225 and this one is a 2014 250. I havnt had any issues with making oil but, I run mine pretty hard. I always use the yamaha ring free additive as well.


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## LPKENNER (Apr 26, 2006)

I have a 2015 250SHO and I have right at 135 hours or so on it now. This past weekend I went to start the motor after a drift and it struggled to start. Finally started and smoked for a second and idled rough. Got underway and ran fine. Did same thing once again that day. It hasn't ever not started on the first crank.

The only thing I did different was the last trip out I filled the fuel tank up with about 50 gallons and I forgot to add my ring free. I've always added ring free to my gas prior to this. I filled up another 30 gallons Saturday and added ring free for 80 gallons of fuel to make up the difference.

I ran it again Sunday and only acted up once. It did run better than Saturday. I ran it hard for a few minutes. I checked oil level when I got home and it's at the very top of the full mark but not over. 

Could this be a making oil problem? It smoked just at start up, but not after that. I'm confused, because it has run flawlessly for the first 130 hours. Anyone ever experienced this?


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## Sponge (Jun 22, 2004)

LPKENNER said:


> I have a 2015 250SHO and I have right at 135 hours or so on it now. This past weekend I went to start the motor after a drift and it struggled to start. Finally started and smoked for a second and idled rough. Got underway and ran fine. Did same thing once again that day. It hasn't ever not started on the first crank.
> 
> The only thing I did different was the last trip out I filled the fuel tank up with about 50 gallons and I forgot to add my ring free. I've always added ring free to my gas prior to this. I filled up another 30 gallons Saturday and added ring free for 80 gallons of fuel to make up the difference.
> 
> ...


Sure does sound like it. Fuel is leaking through the rings into the crank. Don't run it full. Change the oil. What rpm's do you max out at when running good??? That motor needs to run above 5500 rpms for a good run to set the rings properly.

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## LPKENNER (Apr 26, 2006)

I typically run fully loaded not at max rpm. I get 5600-5700 trimmed out, (have hit 6k once) but around 5200-5400 with trim tabs down a little. I do get the rpm's up but not constantly. I always run my boat heavy, but have since day one. I just figured I would have seen an issue before now if that were the case. I guess I'll change oil and see if that makes a difference for the next trip 

I run the hs4 15x21 on a pathfinder 24 and I always keep tank full (80 gallons) so I do run under a heavy load constantly. 5 batteries under console as well


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## EvansMarine (Jun 7, 2010)

More than likely it's a stuck thermostat or low pressure fuel pump diaphragm.


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## bornlucky (Jul 4, 2013)

Oil dilution wit fuel is caused by several things. Like Evans said, a stuck thermostat or fuel pump diaphragm. Also common with work boats that seldom are operated at mid to higher rpms, the fuel doesn't fully burn and leaks past the piston rings into the oil pan, no good. Most common is when the motor is sitting and the fuel line is connected, system pressurizes due to temperature change and fuel is pushed through the entire system and into cylinders, past piston rings and into oil pan. A fuel line quick disconnect solves this problem. If your oil level goes up smell the dipstick. If it smells even a little like gas, change the oil.


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## jethro1 (Oct 12, 2016)

The SHO does not use a mechanical fuel pump with a diaphragm. It uses an electric fuel pump.


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## LPKENNER (Apr 26, 2006)

EvansMarine said:


> More than likely it's a stuck thermostat or low pressure fuel pump diaphragm.


You guys did my 100 hour service. I'll bring my this next week and have you guys check it out


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## acoastalbender (Jul 16, 2011)

Sponge said:


> Anyone have a problem with theirs making oil??? Was in Baffin this weekend and motor started smoking very badly. A lot of *[*white smoke] coming from exhaust and cowling badly. Checked oil level and at least an inch above the full limit.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


This might be a long shot but it happened to me on a fairly new Evinrude on Baffin. After running down there from marker37 I got to Baffin and slowed down to a crawl for all the dense fog in the bay. Turned around and noticed clouds of white smoke coming out the exhaust and cowling area. Motor ran fine ... no noises or performance problems. Turned it off then on again, np. I just assumed it had somehow gotten an extra large dose of oil but I couldn't explain the white smoke. As the morning wore on and I moved from spot to spot the fog lifted and with it the white smoke disappeared ... never had a recurrence. I think it was super high humidity turning to steam as the motor sucked in air ... ? One other thing regarding the oil level being an inch above (!?!) full line ... that's not good, you should never overfill oil in any internal combustion engine ... jm.02

.


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## EvansMarine (Jun 7, 2010)

If you were under 20hrs on new motor, it would have been in break in mode extra oiling the motor and can build up and partially foul plugs at lower rpms, when throttle increases spark does as well and will blow a white smoke


acoastalbender said:


> This might be a long shot but it happened to me on a fairly new Evinrude on Baffin. After running down there from marker37 I got to Baffin and slowed down to a crawl for all the dense fog in the bay. Turned around and noticed clouds of white smoke coming out the exhaust and cowling area. Motor ran fine ... no noises or performance problems. Turned it off then on again, np. I just assumed it had somehow gotten an extra large dose of oil but I couldn't explain the white smoke. As the morning wore on and I moved from spot to spot the fog lifted and with it the white smoke disappeared ... never had a recurrence. I think it was super high humidity turning to steam as the motor sucked in air ... ? One other thing regarding the oil level being an inch above (!?!) full line ... that's not good, you should never overfill oil in any internal combustion engine ... jm.02
> 
> .


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## EvansMarine (Jun 7, 2010)

Correct, missed the SHO in title.


jethro1 said:


> The SHO does not use a mechanical fuel pump with a diaphragm. It uses an electric fuel pump.


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## Kyle 1974 (May 10, 2006)

How does a stuck thermostat cause fuel to by pass into the crankcase?

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## 98aggie77566 (Jul 7, 2009)

I've always heard that the 250 SHO's making oil was largely due to break in.....folks not running the engine at enough RPM's for long enough to seat the rings.

Mine had a touch of gas in the oil at the 30 hour mark when I had the first oil change....not enough to see but you could smell the gas a bit.

Let us know the diagnosis please - good luck - and kudos to the gentleman that gave you a hand.


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## cottonpicker (Jan 25, 2010)

One thing i noticed is when changing the oil and filter, it calls for 7.1 qts. When I drain mine, i do it when I have a day or two to let it drain, tilt the engine to multiple positions and more will drain out. When mine is done draining, I am certain that it is drained as close to 100% as possible. In my opinion, 7 qts. is too much, I like 6.5 qts so if it makes some oil, you have a buffer zone in the crankcase and on the dipstick. I have picked mine up from a reputable dealer before that sucks the oil out with a pump and added 7 qts. The oil level was 1 inch over full. I like doing my own oil changes for this reason.


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## Laguna Freak (Nov 15, 2006)

*Making oil*

Alright 2coolers. I've been watching this thread for awhile now...

Let's be clear, "making oil" is a misnomer. Fuel dilution of the oil is what is happening. It is a 4 stroke engine catastrophe waiting to happen. Think 5000 rpm crankshaft with insufficient lubrication. BOOM!!! Yamabomb, Hondabomb, Suzubomb :hairout: :headknock

There is nothing inexpensive the engine manufacturers can do (in mfg processes) to prevent it. It is commonly caused by stuck or malfunctioning fuel injector(s). Even 2 strokes are prone to stuck injectors but with a different result. You can thank your libtard administered EPA for this phenomena becoming so prevalent these days. Ethanol blended gasoline and ULSD are the primary culprits in gasoline and diesel engines. Both lack the lubricity that was inherent in these fuels' former sulfur content. PM me if you want an inexpensive well proven fuel system maintenance strategy.

Best wishes!
LF


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## SSST (Jun 9, 2011)

Kyle 1974 said:


> How does a stuck thermostat cause fuel to by pass into the crankcase?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


Still waiting to hear this answer myself.


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## Laguna Freak (Nov 15, 2006)

SSST said:


> Still waiting to hear this answer myself.


LOL!!! The same way a faulty low pressure fuel pump diaphragm does...

By allowing excessive fuel flow through heavily deposited, worn, and scarred fuel injectors that do not properly atomize fuel and do not close when they are supposed to. Its a more common malady these days if you own a high pressure fuel injected engine from any mfr more than a few years. Even ethanol free gasoline lacks the sulfur content that once provided lubrication for fuel injectors.

How about a show of hands from all 2coolers who have suffered a fuel injector failure in your boat, car, truck, etc engine since 2007?


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## EvansMarine (Jun 7, 2010)

You can Google it! If motor isn't getting to proper operating temp, the fuel burn isn't correct and not burning all the fuel, as well as the oil not getting to temp can prevent the moisture in oil to not steam off causing rise in oil levels as well. Below is an article from a well know tech on the subject.

* 4Stroke "Making Oil" by Willy B. Wright *

April 2nd, 2005, 05:42 PM

I get a few customers each year with high oil levels in their 4-stroke outboards and it's really tough to explain why sometimes. So I prepared this to present to customers with the problem and I thought it would make a good FAQ.

Q: Why does my 4-stroke outboard oil level keep rising? I never add any. Shouldn't it be going down?
A: This is referred to as "Making oil". Here it is in a nutshell. Water vapor enters the crankcase of all motors from the atmosphere, and as a by-product of combustion. In other motors, the oil gets rather hot and any water vapor that may condense will steam-off and exit the crankcase breather. 4-stroke outboard motor oil doesn't get nearly as hot, so the water just keeps on collecting.

Q: Is it always water?
A: No. Tiny amounts of raw fuel also leak into the crankcase on the compression stroke, potentially diluting the oil and raising the level on a cool-running motor. Or there could be a fuel system leak. Typically the odor of the latter situation is fairly obvious, but not necessarily. Lack of a gassy smell shouldn't preclude checking the possibility of fuel system leaks. Over choking and frequent flooding will also cause fuel to get into the oil.

Q: Where does the water come from?
A: Three sources. Asmosphere, combustion and fuel. There's always moisture in the air, especially near bodies of water. Some condenses out naturally and collects in the crankcase of a sitting motor. Some comes in right along with the air as it runs. The body of water you're operating on produces a lot of atmospheric water vapor, especially a few feet above the water line ... where the powerhead is. H20 is one of the compounds that forms when gasoline is burned, along with CO, CO2, NOX, etc. Some leaks into the crankcase right along with the other contaminants and mixes into the oil. Alcohol combustion makes mostly CO2 and H2O, so alcohol-blended fuels tend to produce more water vapor than straight gasoline.

Q: Wouldn't my oil turn milky if water was in there?
A: Eventually it will. But oil has some capacity to retain water and it eventually reaches a threshold where it starts to cloud.

Q: Why doesn't the oil get hot enough to steam it off?
A: It can. If the motor is running hard enough to plane the boat, water that otherwise cools the oil isn't splashing on the sump that holds the oil. But boats that are run at non-planing speeds may not heat the oil up very much at all. The water the boat is running in cools the oil which is in the sump beneath the powerhead. That water can keep the oil pretty cool just by splashing against the outside of the aluminum sump.Motors that are mostly operated at sub-planing speeds seem to be especially susceptible to making oil. Many times the complaint is that a kicker used for trolling has the problem, but the main motor doesn't. That's because the main motor is used to get to the fishing spot fast to troll slow with the kicker. One is hot, the other is not.

Q: Why is it a problem with my motor and not my neighbor's?
A: Two things really aggrivate the problem. Cool running temperature of the oil, and the abundance of moisture available that inevitably collects. The environment the boat is kept in, water temperature, the fuel you use, and the way you operate the motor have huge effects on whether or not this is going to be a problem.

Q: Wouldn't a hotter thermostat solve the problem?
A: Doesn't help much, but it helps. Problem is that you're regulating coolant temperature and not oil temperature. The oil will get a little warmer as a result, but the powerhead will be running hotter and that's probably not good. Then consider that if the sump is getting splashed by water, that pretty much cancels it out.

Q: How can I be sure of what is making the oil?
A: You can have the oil analyzed. There are many labs that test automotive oil. Outboard readings may not be consistent with what would be expected from an automobile engine, so interpreting the data could be problematic. But it sure will show what is in the oil. A quick search yielded a lot of labs offering this service through the mail for a wide range of prices. Shop around, but it could be money well invested. One site with abundant information is http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/ They also have a Forum if you have any questions.

Q: So what can I do about it?
A: Right now, the approach is to minimize the amount of contamination allowed to enter. That means keeping the motor as unexposed to atmospheric moisture as possible. Practical in some situations, impossible in others. The manufacturers are also stressing proper and agressive break-in procedures to mate surfaces better and keep leakage into the crankcase (blow-by) to a minimum. Avoid alcohol-blended fuels if you can. Finally, allow the motor to get hot enough to steam-off what water will inevitably collect in there. That'll probably mean running it hard for awhile. (If your lake has a speed limit ... Ouch!)If all of that fails, have the motor checked for gasket leakage. It could be coming from the cooling system. More frequent oil & filter changes may be necessary. But try running the motor hard for several minutes every time you go out. That's the easiest, cheapest, and most enjoyable thing to try.

Q: So you mean I HAVE to open it up and go fast once in awhile? 
A: Dang shame, ain't it?


SSST said:


> Still waiting to hear this answer myself.


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## FAT TIRE (Nov 25, 2004)

It is caused by fuel dilution, fuel that is not burned gets by the rings and into the oil. A Thermostat stuck open wont let the motor warm up it runs richer ( more fuel ) A cold motor also means the internal parts have not expanded so piston ring to cylinder tolerances are greater. bigger gap = more fuel in oil. This is not a brand specific problem the cylinder walls and rings on 4 stroke outboards are made of harder metals and take longer to wear in. Do not run synthetic oil until break-in is complete. Over propping a motor or overloading a boat to the point the motor can't reach the upper part of the recommended operating range will also cause fuel dilution. Excessive idle time can make oil in boats that have gone through a proper break-in. COE survey, CG, and cop boats that idle around off plane all day have this problem and need oil changes more frequently.


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## FAT TIRE (Nov 25, 2004)

Laguna Freak said:


> LOL!!! The same way a faulty low pressure fuel pump diaphragm does...
> 
> By allowing excessive fuel flow through heavily deposited, worn, and scarred fuel injectors that do not properly atomize fuel and do not close when they are supposed to. Its a more common malady these days if you own a high pressure fuel injected engine from any mfr more than a few years. Even ethanol free gasoline lacks the sulfur content that once provided lubrication for fuel injectors.
> 
> How about a show of hands from all 2coolers who have suffered a fuel injector failure in your boat, car, truck, etc engine since 2007?


I clean and flow injectors, most injector issues cause a lean condition clogged screen or pintle is fouled and flows less fuel. Drippers or bad spray patterns are not the norm. Most of the time the problem cylinder is discovered during a compression test, and is caused by a coil failure. No spark = unburnt fuel that washes oil off cylinder wall =excessive wear and low compression+ fuel in oil.


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## Laguna Freak (Nov 15, 2006)

FAT TIRE said:


> I clean and flow injectors, most injector issues cause a lean condition clogged screen or pintle is fouled and flows less fuel. Drippers or bad spray patterns are not the norm. Most of the time the problem cylinder is discovered during a compression test, and is caused by a coil failure. No spark = unburnt fuel that washes oil off cylinder wall =excessive wear and low compression+ fuel in oil.


Thanks Fat Tire but we've seen worn and damaged injectors failing to close in cycle since high pressure fuel injection has become the market standard. That results in too much fuel on every stroke of a 4 stroke.

Now I'm not suggesting that your points do not occur or that you or anyone on this site would take advantage of less knowledgeable consumers but we have seen numerous vendors nationwide who profit from selling components and labor to customers, promote similar theories to yours. I for one am suspicious when the guy who makes a profit off of expensive fuel system components and labor tries to convince me not to employ the best fuel system protection available to combat the industry wide recognized problems associated with modern fuels.


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## FAT TIRE (Nov 25, 2004)

I can sell you a new oem injector for $150 on up depending on size and brand. Or I can flow, ultrasonic clean, backflush, replace screens, reflow your injector for $25. I save time and make more money selling new injectors. We do it as a service to our customers gets them on the water faster not waiting on parts and saves them money, and by doing it in house we know it is done right. Making oil usually happens early on under warranty for reasons stated in other post. It is not a theory I have seen it on f115 all the way to 1350 HP inboards. Customers don't pay for warranty work and fuel system cleaning or protection isn't a cure for fuel oil dilution.


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## EvansMarine (Jun 7, 2010)

We do our own flow, clean and back flush in house as well. It' saves money and time in house and generally can get customer out cheaper than replacement on injectors. We also have a Direct Injector Machine for Opti's


FAT TIRE said:


> I can sell you a new oem injector for $150 on up depending on size and brand. Or I can flow, ultrasonic clean, backflush, replace screens, reflow your injector for $25. I save time and make more money selling new injectors. We do it as a service to our customers gets them on the water faster not waiting on parts and saves them money, and by doing it in house we know it is done right. Making oil usually happens early on under warranty for reasons stated in other post. It is not a theory I have seen it on f115 all the way to 1350 HP inboards. Customers don't pay for warranty work and fuel system cleaning or protection isn't a cure for fuel oil dilution.


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## Laguna Freak (Nov 15, 2006)

Like I said above, I'm not suggesting you guys aren't trying to do the best for your customers. I'm also not suggesting high idle time is not an issue. High idle time, > 50% of all engine hours, is a tremendous culprit in fuel dilution of crankcase oil. We see it in gasoline and diesel engines. More in diesel.

As for "running full throttle to heat the oil up and evaporate moisture out of crankcase oil", I have seen many oil analysis reports and very few come back with critical levels of water. I have not seen many outboard or marine engine reports that come back with critical levels of water, magnesium, and sodium which are strong indicators of sea water or "coastal moisture". So, in the absence of an accredited lab telling me these indicators are present, my staunch position is "making oil" is the result of fuel dilution in 99.99% of cases. Running her at high speed is not going to reduce the incidence of fuel dilution caused by faulty fuel injectors that are worn and have fuel deposit accumulations that prevent an injector from closing completely. An injector that is open only a fraction of a micron is pouring fuel into the affected cylinder 100% of the time the engine is on and also when it is off until the system pressure drops enough to stop the flow.

Fuel dilution of crankcase oil is a recipe for catastrophe. Think 5000 rpm and inadequate lubrication of every moving part in the engine. Everybody on this forum has enough sense to know that circumstance will turn an otherwise perfectly good 4 cycle engine into a Yamabomb, Hondabomb, or Suzubomb.

The fact that you two engine maintenance and repair professionals are performing the fuel injector services you both describe, is pretty clear and convincing evidence of the myriad problems associated with modern fuels.

So like I said in my earlier post, anyone who is interested in a well proven cost effective solution (1.8 cents per gallon fuel) to the myriad issues of modern fuels that cause injector failure, PM me. I'll hook a brother up. Or a sister.


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## FAT TIRE (Nov 25, 2004)

You fail to recognize that 90% of the fuel dilution cases happen on new low hour motors. Your theory or worn out injectors from lack of lubricity does not apply here. By breaking in the motor properly the issue is fixed without repairing or cleaning the fuel system. Fuel system problems show up as a lack of power or running issue not high oil levels. Your snake oil is not going to fix or prevent fuel dilution.


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## Laguna Freak (Nov 15, 2006)

FAT TIRE said:


> You fail to recognize that 90% of the fuel dilution cases happen on new low hour motors. Your theory or worn out injectors from lack of lubricity does not apply here. By breaking in the motor properly the issue is fixed without repairing or cleaning the fuel system. Fuel system problems show up as a lack of power or running issue not high oil levels. Your snake oil is not going to fix or prevent fuel dilution.


You had to go and cast an insult didn't you Fat Tire? Snake oil? Really?!? A brief internet search of GDI (Gasoline Direct Injection) injector leaks yields a load of information for the uninformed consumer. Not the least of which is injector leaks caused by heavy handed mechanics...

http://www.westernturbo.com/gdi-gasoline-direct-injector-testing


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## Laguna Freak (Nov 15, 2006)

Just to be clear. There is very little about fuel injector fouling and leaking that I fail to recognize. Whether it is deposit driven due to the high pressure and high temperature of the modern high pressure common rail system in the presence of the inferior lubrication of modern fuels or due to the simple heavy hand of a mechanic who is having a bad day.


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## FAT TIRE (Nov 25, 2004)

Not an insult I just call it like I see it. The four stroke marine engines we are discussing are MPI not GDI


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## RedXCross (Aug 7, 2005)

Hey when yall get this figured out let me know, I got a 250 SHO with .2 hours on it with a 6 year "W" I need to blow up.


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## Laguna Freak (Nov 15, 2006)

FAT TIRE said:


> Not an insult I just call it like I see it. The four stroke marine engines we are discussing are MPI not GDI


Look dude. I'm not going to argue with you. I'm going to take the high road of science here.

MPI may not be injected directly into the cylinder by its strictest definition and yes it helps to keep deposits washed off of intake valves, but its still a high pressure gasoline injection system that for reasons of technician safety and other practical reasons related to accurate performance measure, prevents service providers like you from duplicating operating pressures of 2000 to 5000 psi + when doing flow testing and diagnosis. Heck you can't even accurately duplicate the multiple injector discharges that occur in sequential injection. Thus all flow testing results must rely on mathematic conversions to estimate what happens under operating conditions. You don't really know what's going on under operating conditions. You only get a mathematical hypothesis from your computer. It ain't fool proof!

Granted, your injection pressures don't begin to approach the 35,000 psi + pressures of a modern diesel HPCR system or even the pressures of ETec 2 stroke Direct Injection. However, the consumer deserves to be informed that the lack of lubricity in modern fuels leads to injector wear and scarring and most chemical reactions in our highly unstable modern fuels leading to deposit formation "inside the injector body" occur at the operating temperatures and pressures you guys deal with.

So, while you claim all of the issues you have encountered with 4 stroke outboards indicate injectors stuck closed, that is all well and good but no injector deposits is the ultimate goal for me and everyone else who doesn't want their motor in the shop when its time to go fishing. I'm just offering the good folks here a cost effective alternative method that is validated by numerous 3rd party industry experts, the SAE and the STLE, and is manufactured and marketed by a 177 year old family owned and operated christian company that has delivered value-added products since 1839 and is the largest single producer and marketer of fuel performance additives in the country.

The choice belongs to each individual. I didn't post here to bash you guys who make your living wrenching so I won't go there even though you insulted me. I posted to offer some real world insights and a cost effective alternative. The last thing I'll say on this subject is that for the cost of a $150 flow test and cleaning, I can help 2coolers effectively treat 8,000 gallons of gasoline and avoid the injector deposit issues all together.

Good day,
LF


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## Kwhitley (Nov 28, 2009)

Let's hear your fix. Post it up!


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## acoastalbender (Jul 16, 2011)

EvansMarine said:


> If you were under 20hrs on new motor, it would have been in break in mode extra oiling the motor and can build up and partially foul plugs at lower rpms, when throttle increases spark does as well and will blow a white smoke


between 32 and 33 hrs at the time ...

.


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## FAT TIRE (Nov 25, 2004)

GDI is a totally different animal than mpi different pressures among other things. People that search these forums are looking for answers and fixes for there issues. I am giving them real world feedback on how to cure or prevent making oil (fuel dilution) not selling them a fix in a can. Your product may very well help in diesel and GDi injectors that need lubricity but that is not what this post was about, You hijacked it to sell a product.
Stat a new thread to pimp your injector juice it does not apply to the question here.


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## LPKENNER (Apr 26, 2006)

Been at deer lease, I'm planning on taking boat this week. I'll let you guys know diagnosis


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## EvansMarine (Jun 7, 2010)

Just need to check few things to figure it out. Bring when you have time.


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## Laguna Freak (Nov 15, 2006)

FAT TIRE said:


> GDI is a totally different animal than mpi different pressures among other things. People that search these forums are looking for answers and fixes for there issues. I am giving them real world feedback on how to cure or prevent making oil (fuel dilution) not selling them a fix in a can. Your product may very well help in diesel and GDi injectors that need lubricity but that is not what this post was about, You hijacked it to sell a product.
> Stat a new thread to pimp your injector juice it does not apply to the question here.


No hijack here DB. Trying to save my fellow 2 coolers alot of money and downtime. If you call that hijacking a thread just because it threatens your pocketbook, you truly are a self absorbed greedy cuss. Clearly your opinion does not square with mine. I'll keep mine. Yours stinks of a guy who doesn't like the idea of superior chemistry cutting into his flow testing and injector cleaning profits.


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## Kwhitley (Nov 28, 2009)

Seems like most of the oil making cases I've heard of occurs on new engines. I doubt they have old injectors, clogged or deposits etc. It sounds like a break in issue. Don't think it's caused from injectors being stuck open/closed on a new engine. Your TREATMENT may help in the long run but with a new engine I doubt it. Sounds like these guys are trying to help and your stuck on your special miracle treatment, it might work who knows!! On a older engine if you start to see performance issues and rising oil, it's probably the injectors or thermostat.


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## RedXCross (Aug 7, 2005)

"Faulty fuel injectors" on this guys motor who has 30 hours?

I am sorry I don't buy that.



Laguna Freak said:


> Like I said above, I'm not suggesting you guys aren't trying to do the best for your customers. I'm also not suggesting high idle time is not an issue. High idle time, > 50% of all engine hours, is a tremendous culprit in fuel dilution of crankcase oil. We see it in gasoline and diesel engines. More in diesel.
> 
> As for "running full throttle to heat the oil up and evaporate moisture out of crankcase oil", I have seen many oil analysis reports and very few come back with critical levels of water. I have not seen many outboard or marine engine reports that come back with critical levels of water, magnesium, and sodium which are strong indicators of sea water or "coastal moisture". So, in the absence of an accredited lab telling me these indicators are present, my staunch position is "making oil" is the result of fuel dilution in 99.99% of cases. Running her at high speed is not going to reduce the incidence of fuel dilution caused by faulty fuel injectors that are worn and have fuel deposit accumulations that prevent an injector from closing completely. An injector that is open only a fraction of a micron is pouring fuel into the affected cylinder 100% of the time the engine is on and also when it is off until the system pressure drops enough to stop the flow.
> 
> ...


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## RedXCross (Aug 7, 2005)

Totally agree. Been my experience too.



FAT TIRE said:


> You fail to recognize that 90% of the fuel dilution cases happen on new low hour motors. Your theory or worn out injectors from lack of lubricity does not apply here. By breaking in the motor properly the issue is fixed without repairing or cleaning the fuel system. Fuel system problems show up as a lack of power or running issue not high oil levels. Your snake oil is not going to fix or prevent fuel dilution.


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## Laguna Freak (Nov 15, 2006)

Look fellas. I sell a wide variety of specialized treatments to large industrial users, emergency backup generator operators, and fuel jobbers who distribute thousands of gallons of gasoline and diesel fuel per week. The company I rep sells directly to refineries. What I'm offering you can't buy at big box retailers. There is no money to be made by selling to individuals on this forum. I offered it as a very cost effective option for 2coolers to AVOID FUEL SYSTEM PROBLEMS that lead to fuel dilution of crankcase oil, injector failure, pump failure, etc. I've seen it myself for years and run the same products in my boats and vehicles with ZERO fuel system failures of any kind. I offered up some scientific explanations in layman's terms. Fat Tire bashed me and offered zero data or even Yamaha info to better educate you the consumers. Yet you follow like a libtard following Hillary's BS.


You can follow ol' fat tire and disparage things you don't understand or don't want to understand. You can keep doing the same thing and expecting a different result. It's your choice. It doesn't really matter to me. I was just trying to be a good neighbor. I guess the old adage is proven true again; "No good deed goes unpunished." I'll watch how these posts go and track how much money y'all are wasting. 

The way some of you guys talk, you act like its normal and acceptable for a brand new $20,000.00 + motor to be making oil and in the shop rather than on the water. I'm sorry, but that is the dumbest thing I've ever heard! How in the world do you explain that one to your wife? :headknock


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## RedXCross (Aug 7, 2005)

Now we are all DA's ,
What product and what's your company's name, Just curious?


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## Laguna Freak (Nov 15, 2006)

RedXCross said:


> Now we are all DA's ,
> What product and what's your company's name, Just curious?


You said DA not me. I suggested some of y'all follow Fat Tire's rude, bashing what he doesn't understand, company BS line with no data and no info, just like Hillary's libtards do.

I gave y'all science in the best layman's terms I could. I can explain it to you. I cannot understand it for you.

I mean seriously, for example; I've got a 16 year old corvette with GM's rendition of MPI that has never had a fuel system problem, never "made oil" ever! Sits around and idles alot. Gets driven like grandpa's car most of the time. Well, that's because I got it from grandpa. To listen to some of you guys, it sounds to me like Gov't Motor Corp produced a better product in 2000 than Yamaha can today. :spineyes: I mean there is no way that I just had access to better maintenance products than you simply because you are uninformed. 

Now I let Fat Tire and some of y'all get my ire up, some of my responses here, this one included, have been sarcastic and not the most professional, and I am not a site sponsor. So, like I said a few posts back, anyone who is truly interested in learning more, PM me with a note and now, after your warm reception, a phone number and I will call you. I'm still happy to help a brother out. Even you can figure out that at 1.8 cents per gallon fuel treat cost, I won't be making any money. If you're not truly interested, keep doing what you're doing. I'm sure you'll get a different and better result sooner or later. At least that's what Fat Tire would have you believe. I really don't care which choice you make. You Yammy kool-aid drinkers have left a bad taste...

In the meantime, I'll be on the water because my 4 and 8 year old outboards work the way they were intended to.

Good day!


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## RedXCross (Aug 7, 2005)

LMFAO, OK. Thanks for your expertise:spineyes:


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## grinderman (Jun 22, 2004)

Wow-this is like reading a sports forum thread down 'below' with AtM vs UT peps name calling-LOL!!! To the OP, when you figure it out, please post back up the result-curious myself!


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## FAT TIRE (Nov 25, 2004)

Laguna Freak said:


> You said DA not me. I suggested some of y'all follow Fat Tire's rude, bashing what he doesn't understand, company BS line with no data and no info, just like Hillary's libtards do.
> 
> I gave y'all science in the best layman's terms I could. I can explain it to you. I cannot understand it for you.
> 
> ...


The reason paw paws vette didn't have oil dilution was because the materials used in the cylinder wall and rings were softer and break in was not as critical. Outboards also run cooler which complicates things. Outboards have flame sprayed, nikasil or other hardend cylinder wall coatings that take longer to wear in and the process is more important to get a good seal. Mpi injection sprays fuel in the intake manifold depending on if its a sequential or batch fire system the intake valve can be closed and the fuel has to wait in the manifold for it to open so spray pattern is not very important. Im not saying we have never seen an injector stuck open it can happen ,but fuel dilution and high oil are not the symptoms.

http://www.soundingsonline.com/component/content/article/211922

http://www.sdsefi.com/techseq.htm


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## Devinxlr8 (Aug 30, 2018)

Hi guys I'm brand new to owning a boat and have a few questions.
Just bought a 1 owner Tran xlr8 2100ls with a yamaha 250 sho. Love the boat and motor combo and everything looked great when I bought it. I did notice the oil was about 1/2 inch above full when I was going over it before I bought it but didn't think to smell the oil. Now after reading about some of the shos making oil I smelled the dipstick and sure enough it smells like gas. Motor has 114hrs on it so I would think the rings would be seated. 

Any suggestions? I hope I didn't make a mistake buying the boat


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## going_deep (Apr 13, 2014)

You're screwed


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## Devinxlr8 (Aug 30, 2018)

I mean worst case is new motor later on but just didn't know if I needed to try anything to seat rings or just drive it


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## Profish00 (May 21, 2004)

Devinxlr8 said:


> I mean worst case is new motor later on but just didn't know if I needed to try anything to seat rings or just drive it


Drive it like you stole it, SHO wanna run and run hard.


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## goodwood (Mar 30, 2009)

Interesting read. So what happened to the OP? Oil change and repeat break in process?


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## saltwatersensations (Aug 30, 2004)

I would start your own thread instead of bumping up this old one.


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## Devinxlr8 (Aug 30, 2018)

Yea. I really hated jumping this thread but since I'm a new member it would let me start one. 
My game plan is change oil, lower unit oil, fuel filter.. and run it hard.. 
I'm changing everything cause it's something I've done with everything I buy..
Anything else I should look at?


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## cottonpicker (Jan 25, 2010)

*Yamaha SHO*

Do your own oil change when you have a lot of time. Raise & lower engine multiple times to get ALL of the old oil out. After you have drained It fully, add 6.5 qts of fresh oil. The owners manual will tell you it holds 7.1 qts, not so. Every time I had a well known Yamaha shop change my oil, they would suck it out with a hose & pump, then add 7 qts of oil. I would always have to drain out at least a quart behind them to get the oil in the center of the operating range. After you do your oil change, fill your tank with gas and a very strong ratio of Yamaha Ring Free. Then take it out & run it hard. These engines need to be ran over 4,000 rpm the majority of time. You may not actually have a problem but if you do, it will be much easier to document when you know where you are starting at. Good luck & keep us posted.


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## Devinxlr8 (Aug 30, 2018)

Thanks cottonpicker..


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## 4 Ever-Fish N (Jun 10, 2006)

Hopefully a couple of the boat mechanics on the site will give you there opinion on your engine. Keep us posted on how this works out.


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## cottonpicker (Jan 25, 2010)

Talked to a Yamaha tech today. He also stated that if the engine is overpropped (cannot turn enough/recommended rpm, then the throttle position sensor will tell the computer to supply more fuel than it can actually burn. I am just throwing another possibility out there. Keep us posted.


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## Dave S (Jul 15, 2015)

If you recently had a service that involved an oil changed it was most likely over filled which result in â€œmaking oilâ€ which is really just diluted with gas. Happened to me with 100 hr service at local service center. Took it back over filled again which led me to calling yamaha direct. If they follow the oil capacity in the book it will be over filled. I was instructed to remove all diluted oil and start over. This time doing it myself put 4 qts n let it sit for 10-15 min then half qt increments about every 5 min til registering full on dipstick. Problem solved. I was informed by Yamaha that there are so many small orifices it takes time for all the oil to make it to the sump. When its overfilled it causes gas not to get fully burned in cylinders allowing gas to seep past rings into sump. Hope this helps


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## 4 Ever-Fish N (Jun 10, 2006)

Good information. I will be changing my oil for the first time soon so this will be helpful. Do you know how much oil in total you added?



Dave S said:


> If you recently had a service that involved an oil changed it was most likely over filled which result in â€œmaking oilâ€ which is really just diluted with gas. Happened to me with 100 hr service at local service center. Took it back over filled again which led me to calling yamaha direct. If they follow the oil capacity in the book it will be over filled. I was instructed to remove all diluted oil and start over. This time doing it myself put 4 qts n let it sit for 10-15 min then half qt increments about every 5 min til registering full on dipstick. Problem solved. I was informed by Yamaha that there are so many small orifices it takes time for all the oil to make it to the sump. When its overfilled it causes gas not to get fully burned in cylinders allowing gas to seep past rings into sump. Hope this helps


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## cottonpicker (Jan 25, 2010)

If you let it drain to its max by taking several hours to drain and tilting engine up and down multiple times until no more oil will drain out, it will take appx. 6 and 1/2 quarts


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## Devinxlr8 (Aug 30, 2018)

I actually did change the oil. Sucked it out with the pump from west marine.. tilted it up and down and side to side makin sure everything was out changed the filter too. Only needed 6.5 to get it back to middle of the marks.

I do believe its propped to big. The boat is new to me and I'm still learning on boats altogether. The prop is a 26p ot4. Did 67 in it the other day but I honestly didnt look at the rpms.


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## Pasquale06 (Apr 19, 2009)

Devin, you could put the ring free in a 6 gal gas tank and run it until its empty. I think it calls for 2oz of ring free to 1 gallon of gas(for the shock treatment). But remember when you do this it also recommends to change the oil after and filter after doing this.


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## Pasquale06 (Apr 19, 2009)

*Oil Change*



Devinxlr8 said:


> I actually did change the oil. Sucked it out with the pump from west marine.. tilted it up and down and side to side makin sure everything was out changed the filter too. Only needed 6.5 to get it back to middle of the marks.
> 
> I do believe its propped to big. The boat is new to me and I'm still learning on boats altogether. The prop is a 26p ot4. Did 67 in it the other day but I honestly didnt look at the rpms.


I would pull the mid section off of the engine and drain the oil not use the "pump" and suck it out. to me this is a lazy way of doing things and the manufacture puts drain plugs in oil pans for a reason. I don't think you will get all the oil out of the crankcase by doing this. I'm not saying anything bad on your behalf just thinking you might not know.


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## Devinxlr8 (Aug 30, 2018)

Yea believe me too not my preferred way to change the oil. But that's what my manual said.
I truly believe it got all the oil m cause it was high on the dipstick and when I drained it out it was close to 8 quarts in it.
And that last quart didnt come out till I tilted and moved it side to side.
Also since I just changed the oil I'm gonna monitor closely and if oil rises at all. I'm gonna take your advice and shock treat and then change the oil again.


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## Pasquale06 (Apr 19, 2009)

Ok. Hope it helps and if you don’t mind let us know the results. I’m curious myself.


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