# Why Run Guided Waterfowl Hunts On Club Land?



## igoosemaster (Nov 17, 2011)

I don't know why I keep getting asked by other so called hunting guide co.'s to want to hunts on our privet land. Especially those that guide on the free TX. coast? We at Riceland Waterfowl Club got asked again today the same question. They want to buy a group lease and run guided hunts on all the club 's land. Others ask can we just run our guided hunts on your clubs land? If this makes you or any other guide service out there mad at what or how we run things here we are sorry. This was Riceland Waterfowl Clubs response... :ac550: 
No sir it's about a club and not guided hunts. It is also in our rules not to do so. If you run a guided hunting service. You have all the free land to hunt there in POC/Seadrift. If you want privet land to hunt without freelance hunters running all over, or birds without to much pressure. Then you need to go and spend lots of money and lease your own land to run them on and hope you come out on top. Sorry but we can not and will not allow people to run guided hunts and take away good quality hunts on the land that our seasonal members paid for.


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## banpouchi (Feb 21, 2011)

Sir, I agree with you.

This is no way a hijack, but a few years back I had to let a couple of hunters go from a deer lease as they were sneaking in day hunters during the week when others were at work. They then told me "you don't own the deer so whats the problem."

I am not into waterfowling, however I see you guys point completely.


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## jjtroutkiller (Jan 28, 2005)

I will not join another club that day hunts along with their club members, it is a conflict of interest and will lead to bad blood.


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## Capt. Kendrick (Aug 3, 2013)

Must have hit a nerve, especially if you had to post on the public forum, but you want to make it public so here it is. The reason I asked about buying a group membership is because you didn't specify whether or not a guide or so called guides as you put it, can run trips off the land. That's why people are asking you these questions. I was very nice about it and didn't have my feelings hurt at all, but you publicly posted what you sent me so im assuming its towards myself and my business. Yes we have free land on the coast to hunt and we do very well for ourselves. The reason why anyone would like extra land to hunt on is simple, to have more spots, PLAN B"s etc. There is times where the weather might be too bad, or too much fresh water on the prairie and you have to have a plan b. But as far as being mad hey we can all see on the forum who got mad lol, and the way you took this im glad were not going to be doing business. Already pretty hostile. But maybe next time you post some rules or regulations about the club and that would've eliminated me contacting you in the first place. Good luck with your season sir.... hope you get your spots filled lol.


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## wal1809 (May 27, 2005)

Man you were pretty rough on the man, taking what was seemingly a private conversation to a public forum. Every outfitter the prairie, even the one you work for would pay a gate fee to get in on good geese. It happens all the time. I know this because I have been around this game longer than you have been alive.

You are not advertising a good time. What you are advertising is if anyone asks a question, you will make it public and rake them. "So called guide" what is wrong with you? Can't you understand you would be turning away potential clients because you are making an arse out of yourself? I wouldn't want to hunt with you with a bad attitude like that. I would be too afraid of getting Slemped.

You should lend the man an apology without a "but" attached to it.


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## jjtroutkiller (Jan 28, 2005)

Maybe it's because I have not kept up much with what's been going on around here but I had no idea who the OP was aiming this at until I read the above replies.


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## wal1809 (May 27, 2005)

jjtroutkiller said:


> Maybe it's because I have not kept up much with what's been going on around here but I had no idea who the OP was aiming this at until I read the above replies.


Doesn't matter. I wouldn't call his outfit and ask any questions in the future. Why subject myself to public ridicule when I can just call a different telephone number and not have to jack with somebody.


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

Sounds to me like the club has some prime hunting that some guide businesses want to get in on. The club said no. Also sounds like he has gotten several requests of the same nature and he was trying to disperse the information to all who might read this. I see that as a fair position to take.

The OP did not bash any particular service by name. To the guides who responded above, get over it. Those people paid their money and you can't hunt there. End of the story. 

For anyone who is a guide to try and argue this issue publically just hurts your business. I, for one, won't ever call the two guides who have responded here.


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## Part Timer (Jul 2, 2012)

Whether you agree or disagree with his point, if anyone googles riceland waterfowl club in the future.........this thread will pop up. I dont know if this is considered good PR. You might ask the mods to remove it.


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## TexasSlam18 (Aug 26, 2010)

The way I see it is igoose just said what was bothering him and that if that's what you want then this isn't the place for you. I don't see where he called anyone out, or said anyone's name. Nobody knew who he was talking about until Capt came out and said it was him. I doubt he was trashing you, just saying he doesn't want that to avoid future problems. I bet he has to deal with all kinds of phonecalls and people calling him about his club. I was trying to fill 2 spots on my lease and I got irritated. I think yall should cut him a break. IMO


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## GunDog (Jun 6, 2006)

TexasSlam18 said:


> The way I see it is igoose just said what was bothering him and that if that's what you want then this isn't the place for you. I don't see where he called anyone out, or said anyone's name. Nobody knew who he was talking about until Capt came out and said it was him. I doubt he was trashing you, just saying he doesn't want that to avoid future problems. I bet he has to deal with all kinds of phonecalls and people calling him about his club. I was trying to fill 2 spots on my lease and I got irritated. I think yall should cut him a break. IMO


I agree with this. No one would have ever known (who the OP was talking about until the gentleman responded. He is the one that shot himself in the foot, and I for one would be happy that if I was on that lease/club that the manager would tell people that guides are not allowed and let everyone know an the best way to do that is on a public forum.


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## wal1809 (May 27, 2005)

wal1809 said:


> Man you were pretty rough on the man, taking what was seemingly a private conversation to a public forum. Every outfitter the prairie, even the one you work for would pay a gate fee to get in on good geese. It happens all the time. I know this because I have been around this game longer than you have been alive.
> 
> You are not advertising a good time. What you are advertising is if anyone asks a question, you will make it public and rake them. "So called guide" what is wrong with you? Can't you understand you would be turning away potential clients because you are making an arse out of yourself? I wouldn't want to hunt with you with a bad attitude like that. I would be too afraid of getting Slemped.
> 
> You should lend the man an apology without a "but" attached to it.


I just see differently. I didn't matter who he was talking about. The fact he was pretty blunt about another guide, on a forum, for something that happens a lot more than yall even know or care to admit. All outfitters have gate fees, it is only a question of how much. When cash starts coming out gates start opening. It happens.

I know of one particular club down south it happened. I was on it. I was accused of taking hunters on a piece of property, one that was not on the maps and I didn't even know existed in the club. I found out two years later from another outfitter it was he who pulled out cash for the farmer and kept peeling 100s off until the farmer agreed. I then put two and two together.

Clubs are set up and the mass of the group gets this set of maps. The select few get the other set of maps, like the planted winter wheat. I would have to think a long time before I did the club thing again. I would have to be guaranteed "The other maps".

My point being, would I want to call the guy and ask a question knowing I could be subject to ridicule on a public forum, whether he told my name or not. Nope! There are plenty of clubs out there. They are all over the prairie. Why would I call that particular club, when the only thing at this point I know about the OP is his post on this public forum.

This thread has real potential to be a firecracker. I got no skin in this game. I live on the prairie and can hunt just about anywhere on the prairie just because the people are my neighbors. I just figured out a long time ago, being kind to people is a lot better way than being not so kind.


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## BretE (Jan 24, 2008)

I'm in a land deal partnership that leases our land out to a hunting club. I've also been a member of the club for years and we bought the ponds when they became available 8 or 10 years ago. I can just imagine telling the members that a pond wasn't available that morning due to leasing it out to a guide service for a day hunt......lol....seriously?


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## wal1809 (May 27, 2005)

Brete said:


> I'm in a land deal partnership that leases our land out to a hunting club. I've also been a member of the club for years and we bought the ponds when they became available 8 or 10 years ago. I can just imagine telling the members that a pond wasn't available that morning due to leasing it out to a guide service for a day hunt......lol....seriously?


I completely agree. But I assure you it happens, a lot.


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## BretE (Jan 24, 2008)

I'd like to hear from anyone that runs a private hunting club and also leases to outfitters running day hunts......hell, we've been missing out all this time.....


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## uncle dave (Jul 27, 2008)

It's all about money, same as leasing for deer.


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## BretE (Jan 24, 2008)

uncle dave said:


> It's all about money, same as leasing for deer.


Not to everyone.....I'll leave it at that....


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

It is really informative to find out that all land owners and all club managers are thieves and liars.

I will have to ask lots more questions in the future.......or just make sure my lease paperwork is right and sue the @#$% out of the whole lot for fraud.

But seriously, I find it nearly impossible to believe that this practice of day hunting on club land is common. Those people must be really stupid or never had their..............hand slapped.


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## TexasSlam18 (Aug 26, 2010)

Shoot I agree hydrasports. It's all about money to most.

I leased from a guy this past year and we leased a set amount of field with "guaranteed water." We signed a lease sayin water, levees and pretty much everything was his responsibility. Well first off during teal season we got out there and they "day leased" for teal season only. We went with it...wasn't happy about it but dealt with it. Then during big duck we had water for about two weeks and then a levee busted into the guy we leased froms field..convenient. Well when I asked for water the guy claimed "there is no point in having water in your field over the split, because all it is going to do is evaporate out." then he put water in my field after the split, and shortly after his levee busted again. It was unreal how this "club manager" claimed he had a turnkey operation when it was poor at best.

Point is he got our money and that's all he cared about. Looking back I should have taken it to small claims but im not that kinda guy. But next time I will know.

This was in Winnie area.


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## wal1809 (May 27, 2005)

It happens all the time. No different than if I were an outfitter and had an outfitter friend in Canada. I call him and ask if he has clients booked. He says no. I say how about I pay $50 a man X 6 men =$300, you can sleep in while I run this hunt. That is called a gate fee. That I assure you goes on each and every day on the prairie.

The only time is does not happen is when you get two outfitters with a downright hatred for each other. 

Some landowners do it, outfitters do it and clubs do it. I am not saying it is right nor even like it. I am stating a fact. Again, the clubs I know have X number of property for these guys and then the primo primo property is set aside for themselves and the people they like. If that was disclosed at the time of sale, then no problem. But to portray things one way when in fact they aren't, and take money, is bulldookie!


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## wal1809 (May 27, 2005)

HydraSports said:


> It is really informative to find out that all land owners and all club managers are thieves and liars.
> 
> I will have to ask lots more questions in the future.......or just make sure my lease paperwork is right and sue the @#$% out of the whole lot for fraud.
> 
> But seriously, I find it nearly impossible to believe that this practice of day hunting on club land is common. Those people must be really stupid or never had their..............hand slapped.


 "all land owners and all club managers are thieves and liars."
I don't believe it is all of them. I do know I would have to have a whole lot of information before I plopped down money for a club. From what I know and have seen, I'd rather stay home and pull the hair out of my big toe with needle nose pliers than join a lot of the clubs out there.


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## TexasSlam18 (Aug 26, 2010)

You can't lease out someone's field while they are there. That's what tried to do to us but just during teal season. I guarantee the guy who leased us fields will be posting on here soon sayin he has a club/lease available in Winnie/nome area. At least I hope he does because everyone I talked to was as disgruntled as I was


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

wal1809 said:


> It happens all the time. No different than if I were an outfitter and had an outfitter friend in Canada. I call him and ask if he has clients booked. He says no. I say how about I pay $50 a man X 6 men =$300, you can sleep in while I run this hunt. That is called a gate fee. That I assure you goes on each and every day on the prairie.


I can see if an outfitter who day hunts gets paid to stay home a few days on pasture that he holds the lease on. I get that.

What I don't get is day hunting club property. Club defined as x # of acres leased out to x # of hunters for x time (exactly like almost all deer leases). No others allowed except as allowed by the rules. Anybody who allows day hunting on club property is a thief. No way around it. As far as "out property", IF (really big if for me) I lease I will know my boundaries and will agree to those boundaries.

If there is other property available under the umbrella lease (part of which I am paying for) from the land owner and I find out, you can bet there will be issues.


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## BretE (Jan 24, 2008)

Bottom line....an outfitter approaches a private club inquiring about opportunity to run day hunts on said private property......Nuff said......


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## oOslikOo (Jul 13, 2010)

wal1809 said:


> It happens all the time. No different than if I were an outfitter and had an outfitter friend in Canada. I call him and ask if he has clients booked. He says no. I say how about I pay $50 a man X 6 men =$300, you can sleep in while I run this hunt. That is called a gate fee. That I assure you goes on each and every day on the prairie.
> 
> The only time is does not happen is when you get two outfitters with a downright hatred for each other.
> 
> Some landowners do it, outfitters do it and clubs do it. I am not saying it is right nor even like it. I am stating a fact. Again, the clubs I know have X number of property for these guys and then the primo primo property is set aside for themselves and the people they like. If that was disclosed at the time of sale, then no problem. But to portray things one way when in fact they aren't, and take money, is bulldookie!


I wouldnt say it happens all the time. from time to time maybe at best. If a club owner (A) approaches another (B) about a field stacked with geese, why would (B) burn that hunt for $300 (using your example) when they could make $1,200 (6x$200) hunting themselves? Even if nothing is on the books, most reputable services have clients they can call when they have a hot field and have a hunt in short order, much like you do with your buddy. Most outfitters arent going to go out of their way to help their competition for a such a small pickup.


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## igoosemaster (Nov 17, 2011)

*Club Leased land*

First off we are not mad at anyone. We did not and will not put names of others on the post, that we feel is wrong to do, very wrong! If you notice we didn't say a word at all of any names, clubs or guides. We just put up the post to let others know our stand on how we run things. Also all our maps are the same, there is no special places held back, everyone is and should be created equal. Why have favorites if everyone has paid the same price? Just because we do things different from the norm as a few other clubs do and continue to do doesn't mean were wrong, it's our rules. Other clubs have their rules for their members and rules that we hope they uphold to and for themselves too. We are real sorry if we have made anyone mad here, not our intention at all! We just stated what we do and how we do things, that's all. What other guides or clubs do is there business. We just get tired of being asked all the time to undercut our members. Again we are sorry if anyone has or will get offended from this post. But it is not wrong to make a stand (liked or not) for what we feel is a rite thing to in our club for our members. Even though we all live here in a free country, (for now) not everyone will do or see things the same way. That is part of our freedom.


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## jiginit (Jun 8, 2010)

igoosemaster, Sounds to me as you run a good Club based on sound ethical business practices. Koudos.

Obviously not all outfitters have your same business ethics.


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## Gilbert (May 25, 2004)

igoosemaster said:


> First off we are not mad at anyone. We did not and will not put names of others on the post, that we feel is wrong to do, very wrong! If you notice we didn't say a word at all of any names, clubs or guides. We just put up the post to let others know our stand on how we run things. Also all our maps are the same, there is no special places held back, everyone is and should be created equal. Why have favorites if everyone has paid the same price? Just because we do things different from the norm as a few other clubs do and continue to do doesn't mean were wrong, it's our rules. Other clubs have their rules for their members and rules that we hope they uphold to and for themselves too. We are real sorry if we have made anyone mad here, not our intention at all! We just stated what we do and how we do things, that's all. What other guides or clubs do is there business. We just get tired of being asked all the time to undercut our members. Again we are sorry if anyone has or will get offended from this post. But it is not wrong to make a stand (liked or not) for what we feel is a rite thing to in our club for our members. Even though we all live here in a free country, (for now) not everyone will do or see things the same way. That is part of our freedom.


how much is a spot in your hunting club?


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## wal1809 (May 27, 2005)

I definatley understand your position. If you run a tight club then I say good on you. I got the red arse when you post up "Supposed guide". Did you forget 30 40 years ago when you were tring to get started? That man has bills just like you and me. He is trying to get a start just like you did, just like I did. They aint no reason to put all that out there. I know you didn't post a name. But he knows who your talking about, his partner knew. Hell I figured it out in no time. They didn't do anything different than 90% of the outfitters out there. This thread did nothing but one thing. Educate some hunters that club hunting can get you screwed out of your money in a heartbeat. You could very well be running a top notch service. The problem created here is now someone looking for a club will google search it and this will pop up. Perception is the truth in this day and age, whether you like it or not.


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## wal1809 (May 27, 2005)

oOslikOo said:


> I wouldnt say it happens all the time. from time to time maybe at best. If a club owner (A) approaches another (B) about a field stacked with geese, why would (B) burn that hunt for $300 (using your example) when they could make $1,200 (6x$200) hunting themselves? Even if nothing is on the books, most reputable services have clients they can call when they have a hot field and have a hunt in short order, much like you do with your buddy. Most outfitters arent going to go out of their way to help their competition for a such a small pickup.


I never said a field stacked with geese. No outfitter will sell that for 50%. I am talking about them just paying for a place to go. I have been in that game for many seasons. I know most outfitters and clubs. I know there are some outstanding folks in the game. I also know there is a whole lot of shady deals going on. I know a good outfitter who will never tell his own people where he is at any particular time for fear they will slip in hunters while he is out of town. That paranoid behavior was developed, he wasn't born with it. That was developed from getting screwed over all the time. It is ashame.


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## aquafowlr (May 21, 2004)

Heck, no guiding on the property? Where do I sign up?!?! Hope I can afford it.


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## oOslikOo (Jul 13, 2010)

wal1809 said:


> I never said a field stacked with geese. No outfitter will sell that for 50%. I am talking about them just paying for a place to go. I have been in that game for many seasons. I know most outfitters and clubs. I know there are some outstanding folks in the game. I also know there is a whole lot of shady deals going on. I know a good outfitter who will never tell his own people where he is at any particular time for fear they will slip in hunters while he is out of town. That paranoid behavior was developed, he wasn't born with it. That was developed from getting screwed over all the time. It is ashame.


That's a fair point. i dont know if something you said prior lead me to believe said field had birds or i just conjured it up. Either way guess im just assuming birds are using said field, because why would "A" spend $300 to run traffic in another outfitters field? he could just save his $300 and run traffic on his own property. Or it goes back to the first scenario since "A" obviously doesnt have birds on the ground because he's fishin for a hot field.


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## Capt. Kendrick (Aug 3, 2013)

Ok, I knew who you were talking about from the message you sent me, its almost word for word what you sent. I was just asking a question. and your right you didn't post any rules and hardly anyone does, with that being said you need to get ready for people to ask questions. 

Maybe you had extra or certain land for guides. And this wasn't meant to start a argument or bad thread but im not going to sit there and get bashed regardless if my name wasn't thrown out there. Im very open minded, and tried to keep calm but I knew who you were talking about hence why I spoke up. I understand you must have a bunch of guides trying to ask the same questions, maybe just give some kinda rules or maybe some guidelines for the memberships your trying to sell on the topic. You have no problem posting about the memberships, why not rules about the property and memberships and that might eliminate 90% of people asking questions about rules or anything else vs people asking to sign up. Im glad you posted where you stood with your club and hope yall do great as I always think highly of other guides, outfitters and clubs. Im just saying you could've worded it a little different, explaining about the guide situation not take the exact message you sent me and posted it, That pointed a finger right at me regardless if you didn't if any names were thrown out. 

And I agree with WAL, how was it when you first started out? How did you start out? Grinding away I bet, trying to make a positive name right? 

Thanks for your time and sorry for the inconvience, good luck this season.


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## Category6 (Nov 21, 2007)

#1, I don't really see the harm in them asking, I'm sure they knew it was 98% no but if you never ask it's 100% no. #2, what is this privet land you speak of, is he the landowner?


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## chronotrigger (Dec 18, 2008)

*Ridiculous!*

Awwwwwwwww! Somebody got their feelings hurt. Igoosemaster, you big meanie!


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## Category6 (Nov 21, 2007)

chronotrigger said:


> Awwwwwwwww! Somebody got their feelings hurt. Igoosemaster, you big meanie!


Awwwwwwwwwwww. RICELAND WATERFOWL CLUB RICELAND WATERFOWL CLUB RICELAND WATERFOWL CLUB, RICELAND WATERFOWL CLUB NEEDS MEMBERS, NEEDS MEMBERS, NEEDS MEMBERS, NO GUIDES, NO GUIDES, FREE ADVERTISING, FREE ADVERTISING, MEDIOCRE HUNTING CLUB NEEDS MEMBERS AND FREE ADVERTISING. Ridiculous indeed.


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## xstreamduckhuner (Feb 12, 2014)

igoosemaster said:


> I don't know why I keep getting asked by other so called hunting guide co.'s to want to hunts on our privet land. Especially those that guide on the free TX. coast? We at Riceland Waterfowl Club got asked again today the same question. They want to buy a group lease and run guided hunts on all the club 's land. Others ask can we just run our guided hunts on your clubs land? If this makes you or any other guide service out there mad at what or how we run things here we are sorry. This was Riceland Waterfowl Clubs response... :ac550:
> No sir it's about a club and not guided hunts. It is also in our rules not to do so. If you run a guided hunting service. You have all the free land to hunt there in POC/Seadrift. If you want privet land to hunt without freelance hunters running all over, or birds without to much pressure. Then you need to go and spend lots of money and lease your own land to run them on and hope you come out on top. Sorry but we can not and will not allow people to run guided hunts and take away good quality hunts on the land that our seasonal members paid for.


 The guide that called sounds like the type of guide I would want to hunt with, he is exhausting all of his options to provide his clients a good hunt.

This post does raise a few questions

If it is in the club rules no guided hunts then why does the club leader guide hunts on this land? Why does the club leader charge seasonal members for guided hunts?

If we are unwilling to allow people to run guided hunt and take away quality hunts from members, why are members asked to leave a blind (20 minutes before shooting time) so prospective/ nonpaying members can hunt?

If you want birds without to much pressure, and land that is not over hunted look else where.

If you have any questions about this club please feel free to PM.


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## wal1809 (May 27, 2005)

I reckon my point just got made. There will be a dookie flinging contest to follow, rest assured. Thank God I don't have skin in this one.

We have a choice to treat others well, or treat them bad. I used to get angry when Pat Mchale (Snake Avoidance trainer), God rest him, would post his training days on a thread I started about the training days I was providing. I had a choice and I chose the wrong direction. I made up my mind I was going to blister his arse on the forum. 

Fast forward a year and I did a snake avoidance clinic of 50 dogs, most of which Pat trained the year prior. It was a nightmare for me. I could barely get the dogs to the snake because Pat was so good at what he did, it stuck in the dog's head. That wound up being the longest training day of my life.

So fast forward again, I got the opportunity to light him up on a forum. I almost did it. I had a change of heart and instead of attacking him I told the story about training behind him. I paid him the compliment he was due.

Pat called me the next day and spoke to me as if I was his long lost brother. We became friends and spoke often. Pat Mchale was a fine man and I consider him a friend. Pat wound up calling me and asking me to take over his clients as he was no longer going to do it. He gave me a wonderful gift, not only the clients but showed me confidence I could walk his footsteps as a trainer.

I was at Pat's place conducting a clinic 3 weeks before he was brutally murdered. I remember his smile and his laughter. I can't believe I almost ended a friendship before it got started, just for the sake of being an arsehole. I would never have known Pat, never doubled my business and still been an arsehole. Its the little things that matter and make all the difference to ourselves and to others.


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## 4thbreak (May 20, 2005)

Category5 said:


> Awwwwwwwwwwww. RICELAND WATERFOWL CLUB RICELAND WATERFOWL CLUB RICELAND WATERFOWL CLUB, RICELAND WATERFOWL CLUB NEEDS MEMBERS, NEEDS MEMBERS, NEEDS MEMBERS, NO GUIDES, NO GUIDES, FREE ADVERTISING, FREE ADVERTISING, MEDIOCRE HUNTING CLUB NEEDS MEMBERS AND FREE ADVERTISING. Ridiculous indeed.


My exact thoughts when I read the first post.


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