# New Builder question



## Mg50 (Feb 9, 2009)

Hello all this will be my first post on here but I've spent months reading all the information on this website and it's great. I have finally decided I want to build my own rod so ill get right down to it. The main question I have is help with blank selection. There are so many to chose from that I have exhausted my self looking. And the fact that an unfinished blank feels totally different than a finished rod doesn't help. I know what I want the end product to feel like and what components I want to use so I'll start there. I use a Waterloo Hp lite and love it so I would like to replicate the weight sensitivity and power as closely as possible (Sorry Jimmy you build a great rod but I want to try it). I plan to use Fugi TiSic guides one double the rest single foot. Reel seat will be a Fugi ACS. And handle length will be 7 to 8 inches's for the back and I think a 3-inch's for the front. This will be a 7 ft casting rod paired with a 50mg. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated and I know there are different opinions but I'm open to all suggestions.


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## patfatdaddy (May 29, 2004)

I have been building a lot of rods on Rainshadow 842 lately and I also fish with a couple. They work excellent for soft plastics. The Waterloo HP Lite is a more flexible rod than the Rainshadow so you may have to contact Warerloo and ask what blank they are using to produce it. They may or may not tell you but it is worth a try. There is a limited number of manufacturers of rod blanks so the so called custom builders are buying their rod blanks from one of them. The problem is finding out who.
Welcome to the wonderful world of rodbuilding.
Pat


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## pg542 (Oct 9, 2006)

Good call on the 842. I like the 843 and 844 also. Mg50 send a pm to chunk'n charlie. he is a local rep for Rainshadow/Forecast/Batson blanks. Hard to go wrong with those blanks. If you're thinking about G.Loomis, then FTU is your local dealer. Good call on the ACS seat too. TiSic guides are pretty pricey and I'm still not convinced that they are worth the extra, but thats just me. Just some thoughts before you lay out a lot of money on your first build. You first rod is going to be a big learning experience for you, so don't get discouraged if things don't come to you quickly and easily. It's not rocket science but there is quite a bit to it. Also, don't be discouraged if your finished product isn't exactly what you had hoped for. The next one will be better and the next one even better yet. You didn't think you were going to stop at just 1rod did you? Doc Ski posts here often, and besides being one of the best rodbuilders on the planet, has a great slogan: "It's about progress, not perfection."....As long as you see improvement with every rod you build, your'e headed in the right direction....Post up with any questions or if you get stumped on something.....Welcome to rodbuilding, you poor soul,,,,lol,,,,Jim


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## Fishtoys (Jul 4, 2007)

*Welcome MG*

Welcome to the madness MG, Kistler blanks are very flexable at the tip just like waterloo. IMHO I would practice on some 5 or 10 dollar blanks until you build just the way you like or want too, but TMO. The more you practice (build), the better and easier it becomes. FTU has an abundance of blanks at an affordable cost, they're over run blanks brand new unblemished. The best of luck, jump right on in w/both feet, post pics and keep us informed on your progress. You came to the right place for sure Darn good people and great builders on this site. Again Welcome. Ed


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## Chunkn' Charlie (Dec 30, 2004)

I just finished a 7' rainshadow IP843 with a split grip that weighed in at 3.11 oz and a skeleton real seat on a Rainshadow cb70m that weighed in at 2.8 oz. Both rods had RECOIL guides.

I agree with pg542. I don't believe the bennefits of titanium outway the cost. I really prefer the Forecast Alps guides. Batson uses high quality stainless steel frames and the recessed ring design (RRD) protects the insert from coming loose.

Rainshadow also has a CB70M crankbait blank that is AWSOME!. It is the same power as the IP842 but with a litlle faster action at the top. I believe this blank will be more in line with the action of your Waterloo.

When it comes to choosing a blank, it's still all personal preference. I have a guide friend that I build rods for and he loves a broom stick. I have another friend who loves a buggy whip. Both friends have 8-10 lb trout on their records but two totally differnt techniques in catching them.

Personally, I think the Rainshadow IP 843 is an ALL-AROUND blank of choice. It has enough whip in the action to chunk a tout on a 1/16th oz. jig head and stiff enough that you can throw a big TOP-DOG without wearing yourself out. The only negative feedback I've had is from my customers on the IP843 has been from my customer who loves a buggy whip. He still fishes with the 843 (and catches fish) but still wants to use his buggy whip. ( he doesn't understand why he's so tired after throwing Top-Dogs all day with the buggy whip)

Rainshadow use an intermediate modulus graphite blanksand Jimmy's rods are high modulus graphite.

There are Pros and Cons to both.

High Modulus Graphite is *slightly* lighter, stonger and has a slight improved sensitivity. 
The Cons are that due to the design of high modulus graphite, they are prone to abrasions (such as striking the rod blank from the side) which may have great effects on the physical integrity of the blank when it's under a load.

In a nut shell, High modulus graphite blanks are high dollar and need to be treated as such. If not properly cared for they are vulnerable to brakage.

The intermediate modulus graphite, although *slightly* heavier and weaker, still have enough strength and sensitivity to land our trophies but are more durable and less susseptable to brakage from dropping or throwing in the back of a truck. ( although I do not recomend this mode of transportation, and is about $50 less per blank.

Long story short. Waterloo is the BEST rod on the market today (for our type of fishing). If we give Waterloo a grade, it gets a 100.

If your next rod is on a Rainshadow/Forecast blank and guides, you get a 95 for about half the price.


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## patfatdaddy (May 29, 2004)

Charlie
Do you know whos blanks Waterloo uses? Are they Rainshadow?
Pat


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## Mg50 (Feb 9, 2009)

Thanks for the information and the warm welcome. I have done some practice wrapping guides on a few old rods. I have yet to put a reel seat and cork on though. I also plan to build a few practice rods before tackling this one. This information helps me narrow my prospects in terms of components and allows me to concentrate my research on a few rather than many which is a huge help. I noticed Charles referred to the Waterloo as a high module blank instead of an IM blank. Is there a High modules blank that any one recommends as well? One again thanks for the help guys I think I be able to start picking up components soon.


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## pg542 (Oct 9, 2006)

I'd still say Rainshadow or G. Loomis. On the Rainshadow, I think it's the XMB843 is one of their highest modulus (RX8) blanks. On Loomis I think the GLX series is their top end...... When it comes to modulus rating numbers, I've heard them explained many ways as to what they mean. It isn't a fiber count as such. Think of it this way: If you have blank"x" and it is 40 mill. mod and the action and characteristics are just great for your application. Blank"x" weighs 3oz..... Blank"y" is 50mill.mod and the characteristics are exactly the same as blank"x". Blank"y" will be able to acheive that similarity using less carbon fiber scrim, thereby making a lighter blank. 40mill and 50mill scrim probably weigh the same for a given amount. The weight reduction comes when less material is used to achieve the desired action and characteristics.......As Charlie posted above, higher modulus blanks are high performance tools. They ain't your old ugly stiks for sure. They are very good at what they do, but you need to watch out for them a little. Rod lockers, tailgates, car doors can inflict damage possibly not even noticed until your'e hooked up with a good fish. I,ve noticed since the modulus ratings have gotten higher and higher that broken rods are more common than they used to be. Not trying to dis high mod blanks at all. They are the Ferrari's of rod blanks, just treat them as such.


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## Chunkn' Charlie (Dec 30, 2004)

No I don't know who makes their blanks but i do know that they are propriatary (sp?) and don't want those blanks sold to other manufacturers.



patfatdaddy said:


> Charlie
> Do you know whos blanks Waterloo uses? Are they Rainshadow?
> Pat


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## apslp (Jul 1, 2008)

Mg50 said:


> Thanks for the information and the warm welcome. I have done some practice wrapping guides on a few old rods. I have yet to put a reel seat and cork on though. I also plan to build a few practice rods before tackling this one. This information helps me narrow my prospects in terms of components and allows me to concentrate my research on a few rather than many which is a huge help. I noticed Charles referred to the Waterloo as a high module blank instead of an IM blank. Is there a High modules blank that any one recommends as well? One again thanks for the help guys I think I be able to start picking up components soon.


High modulus and IM are about the same thing. A high modulus would be an IM10 or so. It is just a different way of describing the blanks internal makeup. This article is a bit lengthy but very informative and goes into some serious detail about the internal workings of a blank. http://rodbuilding_tutorials.webs.com/Misc. Tutorials/Blanks Characturistics by Emory Harry.pdf

This was found on Raymond Adams' website http://rodbuilding_tutorials.webs.com/index.htm


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## Chunkn' Charlie (Dec 30, 2004)

Good article. Thanks for posting.


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## Mg50 (Feb 9, 2009)

Apslp.
Thanks for the article it was very informative. I read one that I found on the web as well called (Modulus and Marketing). It talks about how manufactures have used the module ratings as marketing ploys and how modulus truly effects a rod.


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## pg542 (Oct 9, 2006)

Mg50 said:


> Apslp.
> Thanks for the article it was very informative. I read one that I found on the web as well called (Modulus and Marketing). It talks about how manufactures have used the module ratings as marketing ploys and how modulus truly effects a rod.


How about a link please? Sounds interesting.... I couldn't get Raymonds site to open this morning
...????


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## Mg50 (Feb 9, 2009)

pg542 said:


> How about a link please? Sounds interesting.... I couldn't get Raymonds site to open this morning
> ...????


I going to try and post a shortcut let me now if it works. This is an actual post from another site from a while back. I thought it was interesting and had some other links in it as well. I've been of accused of over researching from time to time guess it just my nature.

http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geu7mvd.../www.rodbuilding.org/read.php?2,156787,page=1


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## pg542 (Oct 9, 2006)

Good read,,,,,thanks. Worked great


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