# Advice



## Dukman (Sep 21, 2007)

I was one of those kids that jumped into the deep end of the pool before I knew how to swim. Apparently nothing has changed much. I booked a day of fly fishing with a guide in Costa Maya (late Dec) but have never thrown a fly rod.

Plan to do some beginners classes with Orvis or Cabela or ??? but am thinking about getting a 9ft 8wt rod/reel to practice with down at the local park. My question: will a cheap rod/reel/line set up help or hamper me for practicing? I'm torn on investing in a good set up now knowing I may never use it again vs cheap equipment to practice in the yard.

Suggestions welcome.


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## Bill Gammel (Aug 16, 2012)

Dukman,

The Echo Base 9ft 8wt. will be good enough to get you a long way. I is a really good rod for salt water casting. It will cost you $99 dollars. The base reel is about $40 and I like the Cortland Liquid Crystal Guide series. This would be a great rod to learn on and will last a long time before you will need anything better.

If you will watch the two play list at this site you will really be prepared for your classes. 
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxly4y6kgzSrerWEnGHUWBA
The essentials will help you for the rest of your casting career and the Learning to cast series is a good step by step to learning.

I hope this helps.

Bill


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## karstopo (Jun 29, 2009)

Wow, that's motivation. I've never been on a guided trip for fly fishing. I agree with everything Mr Gammel says and he has tons more experience than me. 

It might be nice to put a few fish on the rod before you head to the Yucatan. Just to get a feel for line management and all the moving parts of fly fishing. I hear accounts from various American guides about new to the sport sports and they can be pretty harsh on clients that don't have well developed skills. Mexico might be a totally different story.


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## 8weight (Mar 24, 2016)

Dukman said:


> I was one of those kids that jumped into the deep end of the pool before I knew how to swim. Apparently nothing has changed much. I booked a day of fly fishing with a guide in Costa Maya (late Dec) but have never thrown a fly rod.
> 
> Plan to do some beginners classes with Orvis or Cabela or ??? but am thinking about getting a 9ft 8wt rod/reel to practice with down at the local park. My question: will a cheap rod/reel/line set up help or hamper me for practicing? I'm torn on investing in a good set up now knowing I may never use it again vs cheap equipment to practice in the yard.
> 
> Suggestions welcome.


Practice as much as you can. In addition to your lawn, go find some water or a local pond and practice casting on water. The drag created with the line in the water versus on a lawn is different and feels different.

When you can control it, practice casting downwind. It's hard to cast into the wind and your guide will typically try to position you for a downwind cast.

Go buy a hula hoop from Walmart and practice trying to hit inside the hoop from varying distances.


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## Permit Rat (May 13, 2014)

First, where will you be going on the Costa Maya? It's a long stretch, from Tulum, all the way to the Belize border and there are several different "pockets" where fly fishers frequent. Are you by chance going to Boca Paila? If they take you to "the opening," you'll have varied opportunities. But second, the guides won't be as able to put you in a down wind casting situation, as they are in Keys for example. I think _*8 weight*_ is thinking of the Keys, where the islands themselves are situated in an East/West configuration and the prevailing wind(s) all have an "East" in them. (NE, E, SE, etc.) So there, some sort of down wind cast situation is usually attainable.

But the coast of Quintana Roo is in a North/South configuration, yet still has those East winds. This is not to say that you won't have down wind casts, but to be successful, you should be able to cast at least cross wind also.

You picked a good place to start. In my day in the Keys, folks in your position, most usually failed miserably their first time and ended up being turned off from fly fishing. There are many learning plateaus to conquer and one needs the most opportunities possible and the Costa Maya (and Belize) will afford you that. Also, the fish are smaller and therefore more forgiving to your tackle, as you try to clear your line for the first few times. Then there's buck fever. If you have it/get it, the more ops you have at fish will help to get rid of it. Chances are you'll catch a few bones....maybe even one of those dinnerplate permit that are down here.
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I'd go with the 8 weight system, instead of your planned 9. One other thing to consider, as you shop for equipment, will be its re-sale value, should you decide this game isn't for you. Some of these "no-name" brands will be worth next to nothing, once you walk out of the store with them, no matter how good they might be.
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Also call your lodge or guide and ask if there will be opportunities for baby tarpon. (You also did not say when you would be fishing...tarpon and snook are seasonal) An 8 will serve you well for these too....up to about 30 lbs, but hopefully, yours will be 20 lbs. or less. Tarpon are fun and more easily presented to, than bonefish and permit can be. Ask also if flies will be provided....or at the least, what patterns are preferred, if you need to buy those too. Miller's , right here in Texas, has been good to me in the past, so you might want to check them out.

Also buy wading shoes/booties. There is no ray problem down there, but in places there is sharp coral/rock. You can go as cheap as dive booties (I do!) but just be sure that the hard rubber sole curls up a little around the foot, instead of being just a flat piece on the bottom of the boot. 
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Hope this helps.


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## Permit Rat (May 13, 2014)

Apologies for the errors in my above post. I am now on my _second_ cup of coffee and can much function better.

I re-read your first query and see you already opted for the 8 weight. Good choice...I read the post wrong.

Second, I also noted you said you would be there in late December. This IS a good time for at least snook and possibly the baby tarpon in the mangroves as well, depending on where you'll be. Have a great trip.


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## karstopo (Jun 29, 2009)

I believe he said a late December date for the planned excursion. And an 9ft/8wt was his proposed choice. 

One thing I don't understand about that area is will it be mainly off the bow opportunities or wading opportunities? Wading definitely requires more power in the cast to pull line off the water and is way different than shore or platform casting. Of there is lot of wading, I would definitely recommend hitting West bay, or some wadeable local flat to build some stamina and skills. There is muscle memory and I believe actual muscle to build before someone is ready to spend a good part of the day wading a flat. 

Skiff/boat casting has its own challenges. I don't have any idea what casting skills are necessary down there or what kind of range and accuracy is minimum to be in the game. Maybe those that have been there can share what their experience is about this. Someday, I might like to head that way and want to know what is a basic level of skill to have a reasonable chance at success. Maybe someone can give me and the OP a down and dirty synopsis of what is expected?


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## Permit Rat (May 13, 2014)

Wading the flats vs. boat fishing is not as different as it might seem. In Texas, I see people in the water up to their waists and even deeper. Flats wading is rarely deeper than the knees, so that is a big difference, in terms of "height off the water," and this is what you are referring to. The higher up you are, the sooner the fly line breaks the surface tension and can be hauled back to the back cast.
Anyone fishing in Mexico should be at least _prepared _to do a lot of wading....whether or not that turns out to be true. Mexicans are mostly fishing out of Pangas. These are high sided boats, with even higher casting decks. This puts an angler twice as high off the water as some Florida skiffs. People see the fish better, but the fish also spook from farther away. Therefore, wading lowers the angler's silhouette a lot more and the fish will get that much closer before spooking.


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

Dukman said:


> ... My question: will a cheap rod/reel/line set up help or hamper me for practicing? ....


I'll try to address your question directly: No

Technique is far more important than quality of the gear. It is most important to learn proper technique....and you can learn that without fancy equipment. I'll tell you a story which illustrates my point.

After hearing stories for years about the legend of Lefty Kreh, I was finally privileged to meet him several years ago and talk with him one on one for a bit. I asked him if it was true that he could cast an entire fly line with just a stick. He laughed and said "Yes". I begged him to demonstrate. He pulled out a "stick" which looked like a dowel about 2 to 3 ft long and attached a fly line. He then proceeded to put an entire fly line in the air. I had heard stories of this before but seeing it in person was absolutely astonishing. On my good days back then, I could get 70 ft in the air but he threw the entire fly line with just a "stick".

The point of the story and the demonstration was that technique is what its all about....and not equipment. Learn the right way!!

I've fished the Yucatan a good bit and would offer you some additional advice before going....practice, practice, practice. Technique is worthless if you can't execute it without hesitation in an instant ( and with confidence)

Your guide may or may not speak any English, more than likely he will not...but every guide there has a universal understanding of the "clock" system for communications.

The "clock" system is simple...12 o'clock is where you are facing, usually on the bow of the boat looking forward or possibly wading in the water in a certain direction. The guide will see the fish long before you will. In fact, on your first day, it is very unlikely you will actually see the fish before casting...even at short distances.

The guide will call it out to you and it will likely go something just like this....."bonefish, 100 ft, 10 o'clock". Then "bonefish, 80 ft, 11 o'clock". Then "bonefish, 60 ft, 12 o'clock, cast now".

You must be able to accurately cast, in any wind direction, ideally with minimum false casting. The only way to be able to do that is with solid technique and much practice.

One of the best practice methods I've used is to set up something like pie tins at various distances from 40 to 65 ft and all angles from 9 o'clock to 3 o'clock and changing your location to have various wind directions. Have someone be your "guide" and call out "bonefish, 50 ft, 1 o'clock", "bonefish, 40 ft, 9 o'clock" .

When you can consistently hit the pie tin or very close to it, with a minimum of back casting, in various wind directions, you are prepared...better than most.

Yes, you can have a good time without the preparation, but in the first few minutes you are out there next Dec. on the bow of the boat and a school of bones, permit, or Tarpon are cruising past and the guide is calling out to you, believe me, you will be thankful for that practice.


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## Dukman (Sep 21, 2007)

Wow, thanks for all of the tips/info/help. I was feeling a bit overwhelmed once I looked into what I had signed up for but I do plan to put the time into practice. I believe one of the Orvis classes goes to a pond somewhere and I will have some opportunities to throw in a stock tank with bass in it. 

We'll be in the Mahahual area. Guides name is Nick Denbow. Current plan is to fish the lagoons/mangroves for juvi tarpon and snook but we'll assess our options as we get closer to our travel time. Understand there's some good bone/permit fishing along the flats but wife will be tagging along and she does not wade so that's why we opted to fish the lagoons from a boat. We'll see.

Funny, I was raised in Key West. Never once fished for tarpon or bone fish. It was always snapper, yellowtail, grouper, jewfish, etc etc etc. We would snorkel up tropical fish and sell them, catch sharks and sell the jaws/teeth, dive up crawfish (florida lobster) and sell them to the tourist off of white street pier. This trip is kinda a bucket list trip. I want to scratch off Tarpon.

Thanks again for all of the suggestions. Guess I better get to practicing.


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## RUFcaptain (Aug 12, 2011)

Go get some private lessons, don't worry about the gear, the fancy stuff will come later ( it always does).


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## My Spot (Mar 30, 2012)

*Coasta maya*

I have fished with nick. You are probably arriving via cruise ship. Nick speaks excellent English. He works out of a restaurant on the beach. He usually works with beginners. He starts most people with tying a fly and then going out and catching a fish on your fly. Time is the problem when arriving via cruise ship. Unless things have changed he fishes from an alluminum boat. He fishes a lot on the beach in front of his shop. It is a beautiful place and very relaxed. Enjoy.


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## texastkikker (Dec 24, 2008)

Meadowlark said:


> I'll try to address your question directly: No
> 
> Technique is far more important than quality of the gear. It is most important to learn proper technique....and you can learn that without fancy equipment. I'll tell you a story which illustrates my point.
> 
> ...


 Great advice right here^^^^^^^^^. We went to Alaska with a group of 10 people and Fly Fished on one of the days. I was one of the few with experience casting a fly rod. The guy that I fished with is an amateur Bass fisherman in N. Texas and wins a lot of tournaments. He was so ******** off that he couldn't cast a fly rod. He had never tried it and it just ruined the day for him. He ended up catching a 31" Rainbow Trout on a Fly Rod........he didn't have a clue what he had just accomplished!!!!!!! I got a 28 1/2".


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## Dukman (Sep 21, 2007)

Just attended my first class with Orvis. Pretty basic introduction. We spent maybe an hour on the rod and an hour going over flies, knots, lines, etc. Gave me a good base of information to work with. I absolutely loved it. Was working about 30 - 40 ft out. Took me awhile to transition from bait caster mode to fly caster but once I learned to let the rod do the work the light came on. 

Seemed easy enough until I stopped to think about it.... no wind, standing on concrete, no moving fish targets, you don't get three cast to hit the "spot". Yea, I got a long way to go.

I do see one big problem coming. When I buy a new gun as long as I can sneak it into the gun safe before "she" sees it I'm golden. Do they make fly rod safes?


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## karstopo (Jun 29, 2009)

Dukman said:


> Just attended my first class with Orvis. Pretty basic introduction. We spent maybe an hour on the rod and an hour going over flies, knots, lines, etc. Gave me a good base of information to work with. I absolutely loved it. Was working about 30 - 40 ft out. Took me awhile to transition from bait caster mode to fly caster but once I learned to let the rod do the work the light came on.
> 
> Seemed easy enough until I stopped to think about it.... no wind, standing on concrete, no moving fish targets, you don't get three cast to hit the "spot". Yea, I got a long way to go.
> 
> I do see one big problem coming. When I buy a new gun as long as I can sneak it into the gun safe before "she" sees it I'm golden. Do they make fly rod safes?


4 piece rods are pretty easy to stash away. Yes, fly casting isn't baitcasting. I'm a big believer in getting work in casting in lots of different wind conditions. I wish I took lessons. I've self taught via Internet and DVD media. I know it has held me back. I can't wait for the day when I take a lesson and they tell me how horrible I am. I went out in the surf this morning and worked on my left hand cast. Try casting non dominate hand in a moderate wind and 2 knot current.

I always wonder if fly casting is like so many other athletic type endeavors. Some people are just huge talents. Minimal instruction, awesome results. Others could take lessons from Lefty Kreh and not advance the line past the head. I haven't been around enough, barely any, regular fly fishermen to have any idea what they can do. It's a weird feeling enjoying something like fly fishing in a relative vacuum.


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## RUFcaptain (Aug 12, 2011)

Is like any other sporting endeavor, much easier to pick up when young, bad habits get engrained and hard to break. I've been fly fishing for almost 20 yrs, first couple years were really frustrating, professional lessons and time on water made the difference. My teenage boys on the other hand, both had casting lessons at a young age with Capt Tom Horbey, both are great natural casters now. Helps being young, athletic with no bad habits.


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

texastkikker said:


> Great advice right here^^^^^^^^^. We went to Alaska with a group of 10 people and Fly Fished on one of the days. I was one of the few with experience casting a fly rod. The guy that I fished with is an amateur Bass fisherman in N. Texas and wins a lot of tournaments. He was so ******** off that he couldn't cast a fly rod. He had never tried it and it just ruined the day for him. He ended up catching a 31" Rainbow Trout on a Fly Rod........he didn't have a clue what he had just accomplished!!!!!!! I got a 28 1/2".


Texastkikker....please do me a great favor and contact that guy and tell him what a great accomplishment that was. I've been to Alaska probably about 15 times. The over 30 inch rainbow is a fish that has eluded me. He was really fortunate to get one because those fish get more rare every year.

Post a picture if you can, please.


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## Permit Rat (May 13, 2014)

texastkikker said:


> He was so ******** off that he couldn't cast a fly rod. He had never tried it and it just ruined the day for him. He ended up catching a 31" Rainbow Trout on a Fly Rod........*he didn't have a clue what he had just accomplished!!!!!!!* I got a 28 1/2".


Man, I feel your pain. Brought back a number of bad memories from my guiding days, when first timers would come out and catch 2 permit and a mutton snapper in a day........or a permit and 3 mutton snapper in a half-day......and they were totally non-plussed.

I can only guess that people like that, have been watching a lot of fishing shows, where they splice and edit the catches of a 3-day shoot, and then fit that into a 30 minute TV show. The unsuspecting would-be angler thinks that catching numbers and quality like that, is routine.

BTW, whenever that happened (about once a year on average) I never saw any one of those people in later years for a repeat trip.


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## Fishsurfer (Dec 14, 2014)

My first time on a body of water and I can come up with a few fish, I feel blessed, especially after I was told by a guide that I was using the wrong fly, fishing in the wrong place and casting too far across the river. Guide: 3 brownies Me: 12. But I know what I accomplished and what I realized; Don't trust guides in Utah.


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## caddis (Jan 22, 2012)

LOL, take the price tags off! Where are you located? It wouldn't hurt to go out with an experienced 2cooler for a day either.



Dukman said:


> Just attended my first class with Orvis. Pretty basic introduction. We spent maybe an hour on the rod and an hour going over flies, knots, lines, etc. Gave me a good base of information to work with. I absolutely loved it. Was working about 30 - 40 ft out. Took me awhile to transition from bait caster mode to fly caster but once I learned to let the rod do the work the light came on.
> 
> Seemed easy enough until I stopped to think about it.... no wind, standing on concrete, no moving fish targets, you don't get three cast to hit the "spot". Yea, I got a long way to go.
> 
> I do see one big problem coming. When I buy a new gun as long as I can sneak it into the gun safe before "she" sees it I'm golden. Do they make fly rod safes?


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## Worm Drowner (Sep 9, 2010)

Fly fishing and guns?!? You're screwed! I just went back to shooting after years of being away from it. Thank god I don't need another fly rod (at this moment, but that's subject to change)!


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