# future of flounder gigging



## greengofishing (Mar 29, 2008)

After a lengthy break from fishing (burn out), I am back in the game this year. I have been hearing a lot of talk, rumors that TPWD is or might outlaw flounder gigging starting Sept. '08. I'm sure this one has already come up in the forums and I missed it. I was cleaning fish at the cleaning table the other day and a fellow shows up with a chest full of gigged flounder. After talking to him, I found out that he is an ex commercial guy. I asked him what he knew about it. He pretty much seemed convinced that gigging will indeed be outlawed. He also seemed to have a good idea. Just outlaw gigging during the fall run and make flounder catch and release only during that time. From what I gather, the population is down by 58 percent and I know that one of the biggest problems with flounder is by catch. I know something has to be done to protect them and it is bitter sweet that gigging may go by the way side. Just wondering if any y'all know anything more about it than I do. 

I sure miss the days when you could go out one night and come home with 20 in the box.

Thanks,
Dave


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## jabx1962 (Nov 9, 2004)

The Flounder population in the Galveston, and Sabine Bays are healthy. (Yes, Sabine is a Bay) The "Lake" name came from the early Settlers of Port Arthur.

You can catch Flounder if you specifically target them. I believe the Flounder population is dependent on large marsh systems, as well as deep passages. Since all of the Sabine Bay estuary's are considered Nursery's, Shrimping is not allowed in area's other than the Ship Channel, and ICW.

I don't think the Sabine Bay has any, or very few commercial flounder fisherman. There aren't many areas there that hold clear water, and the bottom is mostly thick mud.

The Sabine Bay system has more marsh area than the Galveston system, but is about 1/10th the size of Galveston. Sabine Lake does not allow bay shrimping in most areas, therefore the Flounder population is healthier than Galveston which does allow bay shrimping.

As much as I like to Flounder fish, I would be hard pressed to support a ban on gigging. 

But, if Flounder gets Gamefish status, it's all over for the Commercial Interest.


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## deke (Oct 5, 2004)

Doubt it, but if it does happen, and I hope it does, it will be some kind of modified law IMO. I agree with Jeff, the marsh systems are nescesary. That is why Louisiana has such a great population of fish, thier marsh system is huge, thus supporting the trout and redfish hatchery. and I know that the shrimping take a huge toll as well especially here in Galveston and the middle coast. But the lower coast is suffereing as well, and they have very few shrimpers. So IMO it has to be something else causing it?

But on a personal note, I would like to see it OK by foot, but a no go from a boat, and cut back serverely on commercial gigging, if not make it go bye bye all together. Just my opinion based on the disappearance of flounder in my home bay, West Bay. Four to five years ago they started to become a rarity. We use to be able to bump bottom with plastics and catch a couple for dinner, it was a given in certain spots. Now we can go a couple months and not catch a keeper flounder. Just watch the coves in the warm months at night. Boat after boat, one after the other working the same shorelines. And the fall run through San Louis insn't near what it use to be. IMO Something needs to be done. I am glad to see TP&W starting a stocking program for flounder, but they are more difficult to raise than trout and reds, and we need to release more than a few thousand fry in one spot, we needs thousands all up and down the coast.


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## The Machine (Jun 4, 2007)

save the flounder, catch with rod and reel


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## squidmotion (Apr 5, 2007)

you won't here me complain ONE BIT if they outlaw gigging and make flounder a game fish. 

it's about time....


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## Rusty S (Apr 6, 2006)

Until you have the resources to enforce the laws, and make them stick, the flounder issue will not get better. I have never been checked by a game warden while or after gigging in the last 15 years, wonder what the outlaws are keeping. rs


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## John Galt (Aug 6, 2006)

Us recs need to band together...we could learn something from the NRA's "Just Say NO" strategy on any kind of gun control legislation.

Make no mistake, this is just another effort to squeeze out the recs, and all these fishing snobs who think giggers are a competitor are just playing into the anti's hands. (not talking about anyone on THIS thread..there was a thread a while ago about stocking flounders, and it degenerated into a "giggers aren't REAL sportsmen" thread.)

If they outlaw recreational gigging, I'd probably favor making floundering catch-and-release only.


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## Trouthappy (Jun 12, 2008)

Those fall flounder are full of eggs. Outlawing gigging by boat would save many thousands of fish, since wading requires effort and can be hazardous. Or, outlaw gigging period from October through December. Try either or both of those first and if they don't work, go to gamefish status. A single, professional gigger kills thousands of flounder every fall. The old guy gigging flounder for Clark's restaurant in POC in the 1990s told me he often got 100 per night and often more, and not just during autumn.


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## Moonpie (Jun 20, 2004)

Something needs to be done. 
Flounder have practically disappeared from the areas where I fish.
Gigging on foot should be allowed but close the season during the fall and reduce the limit to 5 fish. 
Do this for a couple/three years and see if the flounder come back.
It would also be great if flounder could be re-stocked like reds and specks.


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## Salty Dog (Jan 29, 2005)

The way I see it gigging isn't the problem. Put a limit on them that equals a harvest that biologists determine can be supported. It doesn't matter if you kill that many via hook or gig. A dead flounder is a dead flounder. 

Commercial gigging needs to go away. I think shrimping is a part of the problem as well.


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## bowhunterhowell (Jul 17, 2005)

I love to gig flounder and never take more than needed or allowed by law. Out lawing gigging is most likely going to happen . IMO . I have no problem with it as long as they target the other problems with the decline in the fish . Shrimpers by catch , habitat and illegal netting . I took a friends and his sons a few years back and up untill that point the gigging was great . And I do meen that point . I had been the weekend befor and a few weeks prior to that . There were fish everywhere . Constantly stepping over nice fish in hopes of better ones . But for some reason we couldnt find any flounder . We walked for hours . Yes , the tides where right , the moon was dark , and the wind was right . *** . Where did the fish go . We were not in an area where the gigging boats go . What happened from one week to the next . After not doing any good and the tides were comming to a stand still and it was getting real hard on my buddies sons , we decided to walk the shore line back . Boy where we in for a supprize !!! We found piles of fish of all kinds . And I do meen piles , not just one or or two . Dozens of them . These were piles that had been placed there by men . Not just fished that had been washed up . As we headed to the trucks we had to cut throught the marsh grass and holly S#*T , we found dozens of gill nets neatly folded up and hiden in the marsh . We also found eveything need to repair them . This was in the area of SLP . Not pointing the finger at anyone but I personaly suspect it to be the illeagals that have pretty much taken over that area . As soon as we got back to the trucks , I was on the phone with the game warden . 

It wasnt two weeks later I saw a post on here where another 2cooler found nets on sufside beach with people running them in plain day light . They called the police and game warden . It was a group of illeagals and nothing was really done . They were given tickets . Do you think they are really going to pay or show up to court ? I know we have just as many leagal residents that are outlaws too , so please don't think I'm on a witch hunt . Everyone needs to be held to the same laws and if they are illeagals they need to be arested for breaking not only fish & game laws but immigration laws as well . Do you think we would get a ticket in thier home land ?

Chris


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## greengofishing (Mar 29, 2008)

These were piles that had been placed there by men . Not just fished that had been washed up . As we headed to the trucks we had to cut throught the marsh grass and holly S#*T , we found dozens of gill nets neatly folded up and hiden in the marsh . We also found eveything need to repair them 



That is really sad! I have always obeyed and respected the laws set forth. In fact, TPWD game wardens always sit , wait and check every boat coming and going past the twin palms area in Baffin. I fish so much and have been checked so much, that the game wardens new my boat never even bothered to stop me , just waved. 

I do gig , and during certain times of the year, I have a couple spots that I can target flounder with soft plastics. I have limited out many times which is hard to do in the lagoon. I , too, have seen a decline in the flounder. It's harder and harder now to find a limit and the fish I'm finding are smaller. 

A local surf fishing guide wrote a column a few years ago that he found nets washed up on Pader Island National Seashore with seven dead sharks in it. The nets belonged to Mexican Nationals. They launch from Mexico, turn north and set their nets in our waters! I'm not trying to start an a war about the illegals, as I am sure citizens of this state are doing the same. 


Shrimping is a big industry here where I live on Corpus Christi Bay. I have witnessed what comes out of those nets other than shrimp and it would shock you guys if you saw the numbers of flounder and other fin fish that die in pursuit of shrimp. Now, a lot of these boats are after croaker, hence they are more lucrative. 

I really like the ideas you guys have thrown out there. I am not against fewer fish limits or making a season on flounder. I know that I would uphold any law implimented. I wish everyone would . It's sad to see that things have gotten so bad that now there is a five fish trout limit in the lower lagoon. We can only keep on trout a day over 25. Flounder possession is only ten. I remember when we used to be able to keep 5 redfish a day and the slot was 18 to 30. 

We pay so much in gas, tags, licenses, maintence, insurance, ice, tackle, car washes , boat payments, boat barns, etc. that I'm afraid that more laws and restrictions will make it not worth the effort. 

What ever happens, I hope we can bring back a healthy population of flounder that someday I can take my kids ( when they are old enough ) fishing for them.


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## potbellystallion (Aug 15, 2005)

*Gigging isn't the problem.*

"The way I see it gigging isn't the problem. Put a limit on them that equals a harvest that biologists determine can be supported. It doesn't matter if you kill that many via hook or gig. A dead flounder is a dead flounder.

Commercial gigging needs to go away. I think shrimping is a part of the problem as well."

Salty Dog hit it on the head.


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## SURF Buster (Feb 17, 2008)

WENT TO BUY SOME SHRIMP AT A SEAFOOD SHOP IN FREEPORT AND I COULD NOT BELIEVE THE BASKETS OF FLOUNDER THE COMMERCIAL GIGGERS BROUGHT IN.

NOW SINCE I DONT GIG AND A FLOUNDER ON HOOK&LINE IS NOT VERY OFTEN I CANT JUDGE THE COMMERCIAL IMPACT ON THE FLOUNDER POPULATION,BUT THIS SURE SEEMED LIKE A LOT TO BE GIGGED SEVERAL TIMES A WEEK.


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## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

i'd like to see commercial fishing banned altogether. all of the seafood the inlanders need can be raised and marketed from farms. someone in chicago can eat farm-raised talapia, and they'll think it's as good as snapper.

let them eat farm-raised shrimp and talapia. they won't know the difference.


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## gulfcoast200 (Jun 26, 2004)

Do away with the comercials and recreational guys with air motors if your going to ban any type of gigging. I have no problem with the guys that walk with lanterns or pole their boat.


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## Dipsay (Apr 28, 2006)

I personally have seen greater numbers this past year and the size has been better. I know that one area will differ from another. But i agree on the point that recreational giggers ARE NOT the problem here. Granted, the commercial giggers DO take a toll ( so lower the limit for them just the same as us recreational guys) But the bycatch has got to be the number one reason for decline in this matter. Like someone earlier said. What does it matter if they are gigged or caught on rod and reel. BTW, the few times I've been this spring/summer I've seen LOTS of small (10" to 12") flounder. Looks to me like the population is in check. Maybe put lower limits on the areas that seem to be in decline, like they did for the LLM?


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## scubaru (Mar 28, 2005)

Anyone interested in a supreme gigging machine give me a buzz. Pics are on the boating forum.


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## Toddbo34 (Jul 30, 2006)

Actually the temperature of the bay water at the time the fingerlings hatch out is the big problem. When water temps are high male flounder are produced and when temps are lower females are produced. The second big problem is still by catch. Hopefully fuel costs will fix alot of that. After speaking with TPWD about a month ago I don't believe recrational gigging will be outlawed. Maybe more regulated. *Nothing will happen until Sept 2009.* That is what I was told. There will be many proposals to be heard in public hearings.

Each time a shrimp boat pulls up its net how many flounder fingerlings do you think are killed? It takes more than 5 pounds of bycatch to equal 1 pound of shrimp. Have you ever been on a shrimp boat?

Do recreational fishermen and women want to keep bashing each other until we outlaw everything we love?


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## CCRanch (Jul 8, 2006)

and bowhunters want rifles banned. they say it is too easy. the anti's want us to fight amongst ourselves. get rid of the commercial guys and guides and watch the fishery population explode, but leave the recreational giggers alone.


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## the wood man (Sep 14, 2006)

Put me in the camp that would support a ban on gigging from boats. It is fun and all but it has gotten to the point that just about every square inch of bay and back lakes is covered almost on a nightly basis. While a greater impact is surely from bycatch,environmental reasons,etc. those that do survive to maturity dont stand a chance from the modern flounder boats. I love to fish at night and it has become almost impossible with all of the flounder boats. And I have talked to several who dont care about passing the limits because"gas is expensive,etc". Keep the man on foot with reduced limits but no more boats!


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## dlewis0358 (Feb 29, 2008)

Giggers are limited in catch numbers just like others; there is no accidental undersize catch (that results in damage to fish) like hook & line does; it gives opportunity to those that don't have nice boats and I have limited with hook & line lately more than with gig
What is using crocker for bait doing to the system???
Why don't they stock like trout & reds???


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## Toddbo34 (Jul 30, 2006)

the wood man said:


> Put me in the camp that would support a ban on gigging from boats. It is fun and all but it has gotten to the point that just about every square inch of bay and back lakes is covered almost on a nightly basis. While a greater impact is surely from bycatch,environmental reasons,etc. those that do survive to maturity dont stand a chance from the modern flounder boats. I love to fish at night and it has become almost impossible with all of the flounder boats. And I have talked to several who dont care about passing the limits because"gas is expensive,etc". Keep the man on foot with reduced limits but no more boats!


I don't know what bay system you have been in but Galveston Bay complex is virtually boatless at night. I think it should be illegal to fish at night or draw in fish with a light and slaughter them. Now where do we go from here? Lets keep creating laws and just ban everyone from fishing all together?


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## daddyjaxxs (Dec 5, 2005)

If all you guys are woried about commercial guys and recreational flounderers with boats slaughtering fish think about all the guides out there getting paid to take people every day to slaughter the trout reds and flounder. When you see a flounder boat out most of the time its one person who is looking and may get lucky and find a few here and there. Not often do the tides,water clarity,moon,and wind cooperate. Floundering is seasonal and when they are around conditions often make it difficult to find them or even go. So think about it the next time you start pointing fingers at people with flounder boats alot of times more gas is getting burned than fish being gigged.I should know I've lived around a commercial fisherman most of my life and flounder myself.


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## Trouthappy (Jun 12, 2008)

Giggers in boats can cover miles of shoreline at night without effort. They can gig almost all year long and one guy can sell thousands of fish. I say outlaw boat gigging, period. I've gigged by boat and on foot and wading is far more rewarding, but I had to get there before a gig boat came along and scooped up every fish on the shoreline. They've cut the number of bay shrimpboats (and bycatch) in half, and look what the flounder population has done. Dropped like a stone.


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## RECONER (Jun 5, 2006)

My buddy has a gigging rig and we go all the time but I do not gig, I pitch artis to them and catch just as many as he gigs. 
I took my son out on Sunday and he caught these on D.O.A.s. On the way home my son ask me, dad why would anybody want to gig flounder instead of catching them, I replied different strokes for different folks.


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## Rusty S (Apr 6, 2006)

What? rs


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## the wood man (Sep 14, 2006)

Toddbo34 said:


> I don't know what bay system you have been in but Galveston Bay complex is virtually boatless at night. I think it should be illegal to fish at night or draw in fish with a light and slaughter them. Now where do we go from here? Lets keep creating laws and just ban everyone from fishing all together?


espiritu santo bay primarily and I NEVER fish with lights. I agree with you and I have posted before that the FIRST thing I would ban is fishing with lights. But, I promise you that the modern flounder boats go all night almost every night! In Galveston I dont know about but I suspect that it is the same. Where do we go from here? Well, just like in the old days when people thought that it was their God given right to catch and keep whatever they wanted in whatever quantities they wanted to protect the finite resource some rules have to be adopted.


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## redfishflyfisherdds (Mar 16, 2005)

There are several "tones" on this thread that are beginning to sound a bit uneducated. A flounder boat, contrary to many here, does not go out and gig a boat load of flounder every night it pleases. Wind, water clarity, and tide has just a little to do w/ it, but also luck is very much involved. When all 3 of the above line up, granted, your chances go up, but absolutely not guaranteed. It will be settled by those who think they know, right or wrong. The only thing that I hope happens is that those who have the strongest voice prevail, and not let a very uninformed study be the basis for outlawing or keeping gigging. Can anyone say Red Snapper controversy??? So all those opposed to gigging:Let TPWD hear you...those for gigging : LET TPWD hear you!! "Hashing" it out on this thread accomplishes nothing more than pure ludicrousy at best. HAPPY GIGGING!!


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## deke (Oct 5, 2004)

Looks like alot of us are on the same page, no boats with lights and air motors, but if you want to walk and gig, OK go for it. But some of you make me laugh.

"Giggers are limited in catch numbers just like others; there is no accidental undersize catch (that results in damage to fish) like hook & line does; it gives opportunity to those that don't have nice boats and I have limited with hook & line lately more than with gig"

No accidental undersized catch, no damage, LMFAO. You can't tell the difference between a 13 1/2" flounder and a 14" one, so they stick and(hopefully) measure and maybe throw it back to die, no damage give me a break,lol. Those hooks in the jaw are far more traumatizing than those two stainless spikes going though thier body,LOL.

"I don't know what bay system you have been in but Galveston Bay complex is virtually boatless at night"

Come watch West Bay, Chocolate, Bastrop, and Christmas. You will change your mind.


"I personally have seen greater numbers this past year and the size has been better. I know that one area will differ from another. But i agree on the point that recreational giggers ARE NOT the problem here. Granted, the commercial giggers DO take a toll ( so lower the limit for them just the same as us recreational guys) But the bycatch has got to be the number one reason for decline in this matter. Like someone earlier said. What does it matter if they are gigged or caught on rod and reel. BTW, the few times I've been this spring/summer I've seen LOTS of small (10" to 12") flounder. Looks to me like the population is in check. Maybe put lower limits on the areas that seem to be in decline, like they did for the LLM?"

Come on bud, you gig 4-5 nights a week during the run(and maybe more), this is the most slanted opinion I have read in a long time,lol. 

And the "a dead flounder is a dead flounder" debate doesn't hold water IMO. It is easier to gig flounder than catch them by rod and reel, I assume most all agree on this?All the recreational/rod and reel fisherman catch a fraction of the flounder taken by giggers in boats over a given weekend during the summer months in most bays. So the dead for a dead, implying rod and reel is equal to gigging is no where near accurate. And I'm not even talking about the gigging during the run, wow, that is a slaughter.

On the other hand John Galt mentioned the NRA, and struck a nerve with me. alot of you know that I am staunch supported of our rights to bear arms. I have been a life memeber in the NRA since 1981, and I am completely against any type of gun regulation due to the give and inch and take a mile menatilty of the anti's in Washington. So I see the position of giving the Gubment a chance to regulate this, and the possibility they will take it farther than WE ALL want. But IMO this is different, and I along with alot of others feel we need to do something to get the flounder #'s back up, so IMO we need to keep shrinking the inshore shrimping industry, no more rigged out boats, and say good bye to the commercial giggers(or at least cut thier take in half, if not by 2/3d's), if you want to gig, do it the old fashioned way on foot so Fathers and Grandfathers can take thier kids and grandkids out and have some fun "like they use to".


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## alw (Apr 30, 2006)

There is no shortage of flounder. Just most people don't know how or where to fish for them. This may include TPW. Limits could be reduced if that pleases folks. If you only fish with hook and line this dosn't mean that everyone else should do that. If you don't own a flounder boat this dosn't mean that no one else can. The bay system has changed. The intercoastal and shipping channels are deeper and the water moves with them and not out the passes. The passes that are not for shipping are sanded in. Flounder like current and are taking different paths than they did in the past.

Some folks make unnessary rules on deer leases and would do the same for fishing if they could. What regs TPW has now are sufficient. One thing I like about fishing is we don't have the deer lease anal rule makers control what you catch.

If you can't catch a certain fish species don't empose rules on everyone else.


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## jjordan (Sep 6, 2006)

heres a idea, get rid of the commercial guys and let us rec guys gig if we want to...........im not saying all commercials are the same but the ones i know of are OUTLAWS


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## jjordan (Sep 6, 2006)

sorry just had to add this too..........in the past almost every species of fish that has encountered a problem with their population has been the main target of commercial guys. once the commercial guys were outlawed in time the species has bounced back. sorry if that offends anyone but the facts are the facts


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## Leemo (Nov 16, 2006)

To all who have posted negative comments about flounder gigging or the status of the flounder population ask yourselves this: Do I know how to tell the difference between a male and female flounder? How many different species of flounder flourish in Texas waters? How many species are actually caught and consumed? Where do flounder spawn, do the females migrate to the gulf, or do the females migrate from the gulf? Do flounder roe require high salinity levels to successfully hatch? Where do flounder fry spend their first six weeks of their life? Now since 90% of fish are caught by 10% of the fisherman 90% of the time, I think I'll grab a cheeseburger....


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## the wood man (Sep 14, 2006)

'nuff said!


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## the wood man (Sep 14, 2006)

deke said:


> Looks like alot of us are on the same page, no boats with lights and air motors, but if you want to walk and gig, OK go for it. But some of you make me laugh.
> 
> "Giggers are limited in catch numbers just like others; there is no accidental undersize catch (that results in damage to fish) like hook & line does; it gives opportunity to those that don't have nice boats and I have limited with hook & line lately more than with gig"
> 
> ...


 I should have put here 'nuff said!


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## redfishflyfisherdds (Mar 16, 2005)

Sounds like we all have a little "hot button" for flounder. Gigging ain't going away as much as some of you would like it to. SORRY!


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## WestEndAngler (Jan 30, 2007)

I hope they don't outlaw gigging on foot. I walk in at my spot every few weeks. I hardly see anyone else out there. I run across many small juvenile flounder so thick sometimes I have to really watch where I step. IF they outlaw gigging, guess I'll just have to go out with my light reach down and barehand them real quick :biggrin:


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## Trouthappy (Jun 12, 2008)

Nobody said that boat giggers load up every night, but single guys can and do kill thousands of flounder in a season. Certainly during November alone, when flounder are ganged up and full of eggs. That's a major hit on any bay. Time to curtail that; it's a small minority of "fishermen" taking too many fish. Waders make far less of an impact. And yes I have seen small, dead flounder with fresh holes in their backs. When flounder are half-buried in sand, some giggers can't judge their size, so they gig-and-release.
Each time, there were several gig boats around me and no other waders.


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## FishinHippie (Jun 19, 2005)

redfishflyfisherdds said:


> Sounds like we all have a little "hot button" for flounder. Gigging ain't going away as much as some of you would like it to. SORRY!


I hope your right... but flounder have more pressure on them than reds or trout. If they were granted gamefish status, there is a real possibility that gigging could become illegal as a result. But something must be done to reduce or stop commercial gigging for flounder. I would be very happy to see a law making boat gigging illegal ONLY if I can still walk and gig.

But as of today... gigging is still legal. Commercial giggers have a limit of 60 flounder a day!

It's a real catch 22.... It will all depend on the lawmakers and if they listen to the fishing public.


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## redfishflyfisherdds (Mar 16, 2005)

Still ain't going away....


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## daddyjaxxs (Dec 5, 2005)

The next time you order flounder at your local seafood restraunt or pick some up at the local fish market thank a comercial fisherman


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## Trouthappy (Jun 12, 2008)

Or catch your own, if there are any left in your local bay.


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## FishinHippie (Jun 19, 2005)

daddyjaxxs said:


> The next time you order flounder at your local seafood restraunt or pick some up at the local fish market thank a comercial fisherman


I have never and will never buy a flounder from a seafood market or restraunt... I catch and cook my flounder thank you very much.

Redfish used to be a popular commercial species, but people adapted after it was granted gamefish status. Farming was developed and the species now thrives in the bays.

They will adapt if flounder is granted it also, as will commercial fisherman. I know that is not what you want to hear, but it is not like commercial fishing on the gulf coast is thriving. This ecosystem used to be alot stronger before commercial fisherman began raping it... and they continue to do so.


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## WestEndAngler (Jan 30, 2007)

I hang up my rod and grab my gun during November...


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## Electric Mullet (Mar 18, 2008)

Comercial fishing and shrimping is a huge threat to any fishs population especially flounder. A rec fisherman with a gig can only keep 10 and posses 10 like any guy with a rod an reel. As long as rec giggers follow the rules they won't pose a threat to the population. When a shrimp boat drags up its nets take a look at how many baby flouder are caught and dead, and when one comercial gigger goes out in one night and giggs up 100+ adult flounder by himself it definatly doesn't help the population. Don't punish the rec gigger and don't punish the rec fisherman because some yuppy in a resturant doesn't want to go down to the bay and catch his or her own fish. Farm raise it like they have Redfish.


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## DANO (May 23, 2005)

Dipsay said:


> I personally have seen greater numbers this past year and the size has been better. I know that one area will differ from another. But i agree on the point that recreational giggers ARE NOT the problem here. Granted, the commercial giggers DO take a toll ( so lower the limit for them just the same as us recreational guys) But the bycatch has got to be the number one reason for decline in this matter. Like someone earlier said. What does it matter if they are gigged or caught on rod and reel. BTW, the few times I've been this spring/summer I've seen LOTS of small (10" to 12") flounder. Looks to me like the population is in check. Maybe put lower limits on the areas that seem to be in decline, like they did for the LLM?


Dipsay,
You gig from 2-5 times a week at night from your boat and post the majority of your gigs over on Fishcoastaltexas.com . **** ! If anyone would like to see flounder boats in action have a look at night, Chocolate, Bastrop, Drum, Christmas and West bay,... Outlaw gigging from boats and do away the commercial harvest,...

just my .02

DANO


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## cclayton01 (Jun 6, 2005)

_


Dipsay said:



I personally have seen greater numbers this past year and the size has been better. I know that one area will differ from another. But i agree on the point that recreational giggers ARE NOT the problem here. Granted, the commercial giggers DO take a toll ( so lower the limit for them just the same as us recreational guys) But the bycatch has got to be the number one reason for decline in this matter. Like someone earlier said. What does it matter if they are gigged or caught on rod and reel. BTW, the few times I've been this spring/summer I've seen LOTS of small (10" to 12") flounder. Looks to me like the population is in check. Maybe put lower limits on the areas that seem to be in decline, like they did for the LLM?

Click to expand...

_


DANO said:


> Dipsay,
> You gig from 2-5 times a week at night from your boat and post the majority of your gigs over on Fishcoastaltexas.com . **** !
> DANO


Greenie heading your way Dano!


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## txshrkfish (May 28, 2007)

I remember going out behind san luis pass on foot and getting 8-9 a night sometimes. Now I can go and now see a single one in a couple trips. I agree that outlawing gigging completely is a little harsh but the boat gigging is definitely a good place to start.
As for the whole making flounder a game fish....I fish for trout and reds often and cant seem to catch them most of the time! :biggrin: So just because you make flounder a gamefish doesnt mean next time you take your rod and reel out you will catch them. 
Why dont they just lower the limit on them?


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## redfishflyfisherdds (Mar 16, 2005)

DANO said:


> Dipsay,
> You gig from 2-5 times a week at night from your boat and post the majority of your gigs over on Fishcoastaltexas.com . **** ! If anyone would like to see flounder boats in action have a look at night, Chocolate, Bastrop, Drum, Christmas and West bay,... Outlaw gigging from boats and do away the commercial harvest,...
> 
> just my .02
> ...


We'll take it for what its worth..


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## Toddbo34 (Jul 30, 2006)

I could take any of you lantern toting giggers one time and you would beg me to take you again in the boat. I was out last night at the Pass and gigged 9 nice sized flounder and decided that was enough. The people camping next to me walked and gigged 39. It's discipline Deke! If a fish is even close to 14" it gets passed up. Sounds like some on here are a little jealous of not having a boat. LMMFAOB!


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## Gluconda (Aug 25, 2005)

Last fall during flounder season, fishing once a week from Sept to Nov, I caught 20+ flounders. Talking to another guy, they gigged the same area during the same season, and gigged over 200+ flounders. Multiply that by 10 flounder boats and see the impact flounder gigging has on the population compare to rod and reel fishing!


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## spitfire (Jan 2, 2007)

I don't think this would be a bad deal!


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## deke (Oct 5, 2004)

Toddbo34 said:


> I could take any of you lantern toting giggers one time and you would beg me to take you again in the boat. I was out last night at the Pass and gigged 9 nice sized flounder and decided that was enough. The people camping next to me walked and gigged 39. It's discipline Deke! If a fish is even close to 14" it gets passed up. Sounds like some on here are a little jealous of not having a boat. LMMFAOB!


That is great that you have "discipline", unfortunately too many people don't, and you are the minority. And I'm glad that you left that "ONE" flounder, LOL!!!! Sorry bud, I had to, you left it wide open,lol. 
And of course it is is easier to gig from a boat, that is why comercial guys use them, and the use needs to be curtailed,IMO. Walk and gig if you feel the need to do so.

"Dipsay,
You gig from 2-5 times a week at night from your boat and post the majority of your gigs over on Fishcoastaltexas.com . **** ! If anyone would like to see flounder boats in action have a look at night, Chocolate, Bastrop, Drum, Christmas and West bay,... Outlaw gigging from boats and do away the commercial harvest,...

just my .02

DANO"

My thoughts, pretty much exactly.

"We'll take it for what its worth.." by redfishflyfisherdds
Whats the truth worth, because that is what he posted. And...
"Still ain't going away....", Also just because some have differing opinions does,'t make them "uneducated" as you put it. And "A flounder boat, contrary to many here, does not go out and gig a boat load of flounder every night it pleases", no you are right, but they do take more than a walking gigger or rod and reel fisherman on the worst day, and on the right nights they make up for it in spades! And it really doesn't compare well to teh snapper debate IMO. But....I am with you as far as letting the loudest voices be heard, I agree 100% with you on that bud. 
I just hope the recreatioanal guys will take a stand in person and not just online as you stated, but it doesn't accomplish nothing to debate it here, IMO. It gets the topic out there and gets many that wouldn't hear about this or read about it any other way to learn what is going on and stay abreast of what is happening, share thier experiences, and then give them a chance to make thier beliefs known.


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## scubaru (Mar 28, 2005)

So just because someone has a boat they can gig more than a limit?


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## SpecklFinAddict (Dec 19, 2004)

WestEndAngler said:


> I hang up my rod and grab my gun during November...


Save the Deer!


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## Dipsay (Apr 28, 2006)

DANO said:


> Dipsay,
> You gig from 2-5 times a week at night from your boat and post the majority of your gigs over on Fishcoastaltexas.com . **** ! If anyone would like to see flounder boats in action have a look at night, Chocolate, Bastrop, Drum, Christmas and West bay,... Outlaw gigging from boats and do away the commercial harvest,...
> 
> just my .02
> ...


What does **** mean? lol I'm not that verse in text.. And it is true that I go pretty regularly during the flounder run, but at most I went 2 to 3 times a week.(if I went anymore than that the wife would kill me..lol)But I only had 4 or 5 trips out of 25 that yielded 15 or more flounder with 2 peeps in the boat. Most of the time it was like 5 to 10 flounder with 2 peeps, and I was poling my little jon boat around for 4 or 5 hrs. If you think that walking is harder than poling that boat round for that amount of time you need to try it. Full Body workout my friends.. It's no suprise that this is a touchy subject for all involved. But our goal remains the same. We all want our resources to stay healthy to make sure it's there for the future generations. And if it takes lowering the limits I'm all for it. But to say that the recreational giggers must pay the price at the expense of the commercial giggers and shrimp bycatch doesnt seem fair. Now I will admit that I've done well this past year. Maybe that's why I have a hard time understanding when people say the populations are down. Last year I had 21 trips with 89 flounder at around a 2.5lb average. This past fall run I had 25 trips with 207 flounder with about a 4lb average. And I gigged my biggest to date..26" and 8lbs. Not to mention I saw tons of smaller flounder. So to me that would indicate the population in the area I go to is doing well. We can mull over this subject till we all turn blue in the face, but the underlying concern is "What do we do?" Do we subject the recreational gigger to the same laws as commercial fisherman.. Doesnt seem right my friends.


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## Leemo (Nov 16, 2006)

Corn is $7.85 a bag in George West...


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## Toddbo34 (Jul 30, 2006)

deke said:


> That is great that you have "discipline", unfortunately too many people don't, and you are the minority. And I'm glad that you left that "ONE" flounder, LOL!!!! Sorry bud, I had to, you left it wide open,lol.
> And of course it is is easier to gig from a boat, that is why comercial guys use them, and the use needs to be curtailed,IMO. Walk and gig if you feel the need to do so.
> 
> "Dipsay,
> ...


Just to quote all of your quotes as it seems you know everything. I had my Son and one of his friends in the boat. We could have gigged 30. It don't seem very courteous of you to quote some one and then make comment in text as if to ridicule their comment. Also boats don't always have the advantage. For instance when gigging sandbars boats have a hard time covering the bar due to different depths. I personally have been gigging in West, Chocolate, San Luis many times and very seldom see another flounder boat. Have you ever gigged from a boat, Deke?


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## Capt. Hollis Forrester (Jun 17, 2006)

They will not ban gigging, there going to put a season on it!!!! I'll bet money on it!


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## scubaru (Mar 28, 2005)

Well I went out last night and didn't gig shiite. They need to do for my flounder season like they did for my snapper season and close it to the rest of ya'll!!!


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## TheGoose (Jan 22, 2006)

Sometimes I wonder if people even think about what they're saying. 

"The Bays are full of gigging boats at night". Yes, and they are even "fuller" of fishing boats during the day. I don't hear anybody crying about catching fish from a boat.

"Gigging from a boat makes it easier". Duh. Just like having that 200 HP Chum churn on the back of your boat makes it easier to fish than using paddles and oars. 

"I think people should only be allowed to gig on foot". Maybe people should only be allowed to fish on foot? No fishing from the boat....outlaw trolling motors and the like. After all, they make it easer to catch a limit.

If flounder are in such trouble why are commercial fishermen allowed to keep 60+ per night. Why are rec's allowed to keep 10? Maybe the limits need to be adjusted, maybe flounder needs to be taken off the commercial table. What we need is data and facts before we start pushing laws we don't need or want on everybody. 

You cannot stop the flow of technology and technique. People fished much differently 20 years ago, just like they are fishing differently now. 

Be careful of what you ask for, you might just get it.


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## Capt.Troy (Aug 29, 2006)

Very well said Goose. I couldn't agree more.


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## D-kirk2 (Sep 4, 2007)

Went tothe MOB today and didnt catch any flounder dang giggers must of got them all. LOL:rotfl:


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## catchysumfishy (Jul 19, 2008)

Trouthappy said:


> Nobody said that boat giggers load up every night, but single guys can and do kill thousands of flounder in a season. Certainly during November alone, when flounder are ganged up and full of eggs. That's a major hit on any bay. Time to curtail that; it's a small minority of "fishermen" taking too many fish. Waders make far less of an impact. And yes I have seen small, dead flounder with fresh holes in their backs. When flounder are half-buried in sand, some giggers can't judge their size, so they gig-and-release.
> Each time, there were several gig boats around me and no other waders.


"SOME"is right! my god, go to the cleaning tables at the launches in the back of the subdivision's at any bay and look at how many under size trout and redfish are being cleaned late in the evening's! Personally, i turn in everyone i come across, because it has gotten so rediculous, and yes , flounder too ,but by far less in comparison to trout and redfish! If you haven't ever taken children floundering, then you have really missed out! to ban RECREATIONAL floundering would be a catastrophe, children get to learn ton's of information by floundering that they can't get anywhere else, they stop and look at every shell, shrimp in holes, mullet, glass minnow's, eel's , mud monnow's, lizard fish, needle fish, stone crab's,blue crab's, sand fiddler's by the ton's, sting ray's,jelly fish of all sort's, squid and too many other things to mention! They get to watch flounder swim in right in front of them and get to see them burry them selves along with crabs and stingray's too! OK, STOP COMMERCIAL, leave rec. alone! make a child's day and take them gigging!


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## RockportRobert (Dec 29, 2006)

United we stand.....


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## redfishflyfisherdds (Mar 16, 2005)

So when is TP&W meeting to decide the fate of rec. gigging??


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## SpeckReds (Sep 10, 2005)

Catchysumfishy you are right. My kids love to go Floundering. We walk along and stop and look at everything. It is a very neat trip with a kid.

My 11 year tries and sometimes succeeds in catching small flounder with his hands. Most of the time he gets real wet, and it is real funny.

We gigged 15 the other night and let several close ones go.


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## Wedge (Apr 29, 2005)

I walk with a lantern and never take more than my limit. I would sincerely HATE to see this pass for my type of gigging. I go about 5 times a year and I can not see where I have hurt the population that much.


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## chicapesca (Jun 7, 2004)

redfishflyfisherdds said:


> So when is TP&W meeting to decide the fate of rec. gigging??


I heard a flounder committee was meeting this month. I think there might be some new data to consider.


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## redfishflyfisherdds (Mar 16, 2005)

New data like shrimpers devastating the juvenile flounder population???


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## chicapesca (Jun 7, 2004)

redfishflyfisherdds said:


> New data like shrimpers devastating the juvenile flounder population???


Your guess is as good as mine. As for shrimping and juvenile flounder, that isn't new data, it's as old as shrimping itself.


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## ATE_UP_FISHERMAN (Jun 25, 2004)

Just make it gig and release only..LOL

Make them a game fish..


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## alw (Apr 30, 2006)

I have never seen more flounder this time of year as I see now. There certainly is no shortage of flounder. Just a shortage of folks that know how and were to fish for them.


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## saltwater_therapy (Oct 14, 2005)

*my $ 0.02*

SAVE THE FLOUNDER
Lower the bag limit, stop commercial harvest, more research and development of the tpwd flounder restocking program. Give the flounder gamefish status with an exception of gigging as a means of harvesting. Closed season on retaing fish during the fall flounder run (catch and realease only). All of these ideas could HELP! Something must be done. Until new laws are put into place everyone can start now doing their part. JUST KEEP 5 OR JUST KEEP 3. I'm hope one day the flounder's story will be the same as the redfish. The redfish was in trouble at a time but look at the population now! It can be done.


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## palletman (Apr 24, 2008)

WALKING around in the water at night with a light should never be outlawed....If you have balls enough to get in the water you should be able to keep 10


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## cruss (Aug 31, 2005)

*gigging*

This is the best summer gigging I have had in a long time, more numbers and bigger size. I gig on foot with underwater light.


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## big3slayer (Jun 29, 2008)

i dont understand when yall talk about now and i have seen pictures of over 300 flounder gigged back before there were limits could that have a problem with the population today


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## johnmyjohn (Aug 6, 2006)

I'm surprised any type of fish is coming back or in check. Look at the population of people folks, I know it's doubled since I was a kid. The bays and shorelines are the same, it would be logical that more people fishing is going to make less area per person or more people in the same area. Ive seen no limits to no keep on certain fish, and just like getting old you better be ready for change because like fish are disappearing people aren't going to quit multipling.


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## catchysumfishy (Jul 19, 2008)

johnmyjohn said:


> I'm surprised any type of fish is coming back or in check. Look at the population of people folks, I know it's doubled since I was a kid. The bays and shorelines are the same, it would be logical that more people fishing is going to make less area per person or more people in the same area. Ive seen no limits to no keep on certain fish, and just like getting old you better be ready for change because like fish are disappearing people aren't going to quit multipling.


Well, i very much agree with you on this!


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## Drainplug (Aug 27, 2008)

When you have 5+ decades fishing the Texas coast like I do, the change is overwhelming. I can remember wade fishing Port O'Connor as a teenager, and you couldn't take a step that didn't land on a flounder. Just as with redfish, commercial interests have devastated the population. I can also remember when there was a Golden Croaker run, with 2 and 3 lb goldies commonplace, at least until live croaker became the live bait of choice. Anytime there is a commercial value placed on something, commercial interests are going to take as much as they can as fast as they can. The list is long...Redfish, Shrimp, Croaker, King Mackerel, Salmon, King Crab, Stone Crab, Swordfish..... The list goes on and on. There is more $$$ spent in more sectors by recreational fishermen to drive the economy than the commercial sector could ever hope to generate. If regulations to protect the resource means there isn't enough $$$ to keep commercial fishermen in business, then they need to find another way to make a living. People in Kansas don't need to eat flounder to survive. The wildlife resource in the bays of Texas belong first to the people of Texas, and then and only then to commercial interests... nuff sed


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## Northsider (Feb 19, 2008)

Well said Drainplug!


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## wooman (Feb 26, 2008)

amen drainplug !!!


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## big bluemarlin (Apr 12, 2006)

what happend to the horntoads ,commercial boys got em


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## DANO (May 23, 2005)

Excellent post Drainplug !! Have some green.


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## notthatdeep (Feb 5, 2005)

You go drainplug. I've got 50+ years of fishing here myself and couldn't have expressed it better. Just because someone has a bait shrimpers license or a commercial fishing license don't mean they have priority over the rest of us. I have a high regard for those trying to make a living, but who's to say that their interests trump everyone elses? 

ntd


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## The Savage Nation (Sep 22, 2006)

It took me my wife and my bro n law 3 hours to catch 8, and I was perfectly happy with that. It also cost me 40$ in gas to get there and the skeeters were horrible but I'm still happy with only 8 fish gigged, we did see maybe 8 more that were around 6-8 inches. But I just don't see why someone would keep limits for every person they had with them, It sure is heavy carrying 8 much less if I had limits for all 3 of us. I had a great time =]


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## John Galt (Aug 6, 2006)

Amen, drainplug!


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## catchysumfishy (Jul 19, 2008)

Drainplug said:


> When you have 5+ decades fishing the Texas coast like I do, the change is overwhelming. I can remember wade fishing Port O'Connor as a teenager, and you couldn't take a step that didn't land on a flounder. Just as with redfish, commercial interests have devastated the population. I can also remember when there was a Golden Croaker run, with 2 and 3 lb goldies commonplace, at least until live croaker became the live bait of choice. Anytime there is a commercial value placed on something, commercial interests are going to take as much as they can as fast as they can. The list is long...Redfish, Shrimp, Croaker, King Mackerel, Salmon, King Crab, Stone Crab, Swordfish..... The list goes on and on. There is more $$$ spent in more sectors by recreational fishermen to drive the economy than the commercial sector could ever hope to generate. If regulations to protect the resource means there isn't enough $$$ to keep commercial fishermen in business, then they need to find another way to make a living. People in Kansas don't need to eat flounder to survive. The wildlife resource in the bays of Texas belong first to the people of Texas, and then and only then to commercial interests... nuff sed


I don't think anyone could have said it better! AWESOME ! Thanks


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## RPool (Sep 16, 2004)

I think all of the posts discussing the ill effects of the commercial harvest of flounder in Texas waters are thoughtful and well stated. Excellent thinking and sharing. To each his own, but the reason I do not gig flounder is simple. It is a fish, but it isn't fishing - it is stabbing. A lot of people enjoy that. I don't - I live for the tug. I can't imagine what would be said if someone posted about stabbing a limit of 24" trout, with a 30" kicker, but with flounder, no problem. I'm not condemning, please understand. It is a long tradition. I'm just saying that as an avid fisherman, I just don't get it. But to each his own, within the law.


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## Birdnest Billy (Aug 24, 2008)

RPool said:


> I think all of the posts discussing the ill effects of the commercial harvest of flounder in Texas waters are thoughtful and well stated. Excellent thinking and sharing. To each his own, but the reason I do not gig flounder is simple. It is a fish, but it isn't fishing - it is stabbing. A lot of people enjoy that. I don't - I live for the tug. I can't imagine what would be said if someone posted about stabbing a limit of 24" trout, with a 30" kicker, but with flounder, no problem. I'm not condemning, please understand. It is a long tradition. I'm just saying that as an avid fisherman, I just don't get it. But to each his own, within the law.


+1

My thoughts exactly.

I'm in agreeance with those who feel that flounder should be considered a gamefish and de-commercialized. If people want to eat flounder in a restaurant, let it be farm-raised.


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## jjordan (Sep 6, 2006)

its been proven in the past, its not the recreational guys hurting the pupulations of our fish, its the commercial guys..........they can make any new laws they want, but its not gonna do any good without someone enforceing them


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## dbarham (Aug 13, 2005)

PASS POPCORN PLEASE


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## Drainplug (Aug 27, 2008)

Horny=toads he asks...well no, commercial hornytoad getters didn't get them...commercial NURSERY growers did! In conjunction with our ever so efficient government inpectors. First came the fire ant, then good bye native ants, then good bye hornytoad. As a kid, I would go to my grandparents house in Premont and there were zillions of them. THey are long gone but we have a bunch of decorative rubber trees that aren't even good for rubber. Now we have Strawberry Crazy Ants and E coli tainted produce from Mexico because of commercial pursuit of profit and government inpector graft.... money talks ya know.

As far as sticking a flounder, you recreational giggers go for it, but I want to feel the tap tap tap and see the rod bend when the hook is set at just the right moment. The only thing I want to stick in a flounder is crabmeat stuffing and a fork! I don't keep specks or reds very often, even when they are in the very legal range, but let a flattie get even 1 mm over legal and I'll invite him over for dinner...


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## Rusty S (Apr 6, 2006)

Sept. 2, 2008. 10:57pm rs


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## 2112 (Oct 4, 2006)

*Moderators...Please unlock my post so that they can be read by the members*

I am a avid gigger.

I don't go but maybe 4 times a month and the Flounder population is the best I have ever seen this year.

Gigging, like anything else takes experience to get good at. Where and when to go etc. Rec/fan boats are not the problem but I would not mind seeing a total end to the commercial gigger.

I pass up several keeper fish because I only want to clean Flounder that are in the +18" range. There are alot of Flounder out there.

On occasion I have witnessed 3-4 boats working the SLP area on a weekend night but in the middle of the week, I am usualy the only one out there that I see.

Just because a man has a fan boat does not mean he knows what he is doing and even a fan boat cant get in 2 inches of water on a flat where sometimes the absolut biggest saddle blankets lay down.

I can walk an area a fan boat just worked and pick up a limit of very nice fish that was over looked by the fan boat because the fish was to shallow and burried or the fan boat was moving to fast.

For the most part, our Galveston bay waters are to murky for a fan boat to work deep or too shallow for a fan boat to draft so a fan boat can at times be limited to the stretch of water it works.

I would pin the wholesale slaughter of flounder on by-catch and the generous limits of the commercial gigger. Ban the pratices of both the trawl nets and the commercial gigger and leave the walkers and private fan boats alone.

Floundering is like hunting. More than our great grandfathers did it. The Karankawis did it too. It would be a sad day to see it altogether banned.

Also, I was at a fish market under the Kemah bridge the other day and the flounder they had for sale absolutly where not our Southern Flounder, I don't know where they came from but not from our bodys of water, totaly different in shape and color.

Bert


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## Leemo (Nov 16, 2006)

mataboy said:


> what happend to the horntoads ,commercial boys got em


No my friend, man got em', the same thing that will happen to everything else in the ecosystem(pollution), I've read everyone of the responses and none are valid, blame giigers, blame commercial interest, blame shrimpers, blame etc... why don't ya'll stop and blame yourself for the demise of a species, flushing your toilets(chemicals) fertilizing your pretty green yards, washing your cars with fancy soaps, dumping this and that in the ditch, it all flows *downstream*, first of all probably more than 90% of you expert sporties have no idea of what species of flounder you are even talking about, how many different species of flatfish live and strive in Texas waters? how many species are sold commerically? can any of you distinguish a male from a female? what is the life span of the southern flounder? where do the lay their eggs? do they migrate to the gulf, or migrate from the gulf? at what salinity levels do flounders maximize eggs production, are they born with both eyes on the same side of their head? can you answer any of these questions, or are you too busy google searching the answers so you can become an expert behind the desk in saving the poor flounder? wait, who said that the flounder pops. are low.........


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## "Reddrum" (Dec 15, 2005)

Even though I agree with most of the environmental/watershed issues in that last post most of the message gets lost after the first 5 or 6 uses of "you". Maybe want to mix in a "we" or "us" somewhere since we're all in this together.

One thing is certain, the flounder population is definitely way down from what it used to be as anyone who fished prior to the 1980's can attest. There is no single cause why and likewise there is no single cure that is going to restore the population back to what it once was. So soon everyone is going to get shackled with tighter regs - it's a matter of when, not if.

Historically we've mismanaged just about every edible fish like this - we're in the middle of that process with flounder so people have begun to fight for their own interests whether they be commercial, recreational, giggers, etc.

Who knows - maybe we're like snow geese and have over populated what mother nature can provide. But cynics would say that's just bad data also.


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## deke (Oct 5, 2004)

As a "sportie" I will blame the commercial intrests, shrimpers, and I'll even say recreational guys with boats and big light setups. But I do have to LMFAO on the flushing toilets theory!!! that is freaking hillarious man!!!

And as far as I am concerned it is the "southern flounder" that I always thought I was FISHING for with rod and reel, all these years. But if there are a couple different subspecies, or genus(I'm guessing you will be googling this word,lol) I have to say......it doesn't concern or bother me at all. All I know is that ALL flounder are down all over the coast and scarce in certain areas they use to be thick in. That is all we need to know professor Leemo, but if you feel you need to "educate" us please do. If you have anymore hillarious theorys like the toilet one please post them, that made me laugh my rear off,lol!



Leemo said:


> No my friend, man got em', the same thing that will happen to everything else in the ecosystem(pollution), I've read everyone of the responses and none are valid, blame giigers, blame commercial interest, blame shrimpers, blame etc... why don't ya'll stop and blame yourself for the demise of a species, flushing your toilets(chemicals) fertilizing your pretty green yards, washing your cars with fancy soaps, dumping this and that in the ditch, it all flows *downstream*, first of all probably more than 90% of you expert sporties have no idea of what species of flounder you are even talking about, how many different species of flatfish live and strive in Texas waters? how many species are sold commerically? can any of you distinguish a male from a female? what is the life span of the southern flounder? where do the lay their eggs? do they migrate to the gulf, or migrate from the gulf? at what salinity levels do flounders maximize eggs production, are they born with both eyes on the same side of their head? can you answer any of these questions, or are you too busy google searching the answers so you can become an expert behind the desk in saving the poor flounder? wait, who said that the flounder pops. are low.........


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## 2112 (Oct 4, 2006)

deke said:


> As a "sportie" I will blame the commercial intrests, shrimpers, and I'll even say recreational guys with boats and big light setups. But I do have to LMFAO on the flushing toilets theory!!! that is freaking hillarious man!!!
> 
> And as far as I am concerned it is the "southern flounder" that I always thought I was FISHING for with rod and reel, all these years. But if there are a couple different subspecies, or genus(I'm guessing you will be googling this word,lol) I have to say......it doesn't concern or bother me at all. All I know is that ALL flounder are down all over the coast and scarce in certain areas they use to be thick in. That is all we need to know professor Leemo, but if you feel you need to "educate" us please do. If you have anymore hillarious theorys like the toilet one please post them, that made me laugh my rear off,lol!


Dekie,
At least Leemo is posting possible theories instead of posting useless dribble.
There, what does thou think of me now?


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## ol' salt (Jun 11, 2006)

I have been gigging flounder for over 50 years. (I can't believe it's been that long), and like many of you, I think changes are coming. Primarily due to the size limits. (There are a lot of small flounder gigged in the head). 

However, we know that gigging does not effect flounder at all compared to by-catch. The only change I would like to see, if there are any, is the disallowing of flounder boats. You can use your boat to reach an area, but you have to get out and wade to actually do any gigging. 

What effect will this have? Instead of 6 guys in a boat stabbing everything they see, you will have fewer people with more time to look at what they are sticking, and probably only the more experienced will do it.

Earline, pick-up the soap box; we're done.


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## palletman (Apr 24, 2008)

From what I understand the commerical giggers in Lousianna can keep flounder that are 12"....Well we have some enterprising giggers here in Texas that also keep 12" flounder....And when they sell them the Texas giggers say the 12" (undersized fish) came from Lousianna......


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## Leemo (Nov 16, 2006)

deke said:


> As a "sportie" I will blame the commercial intrests, shrimpers, and I'll even say recreational guys with boats and big light setups. But I do have to LMFAO on the flushing toilets theory!!! that is freaking hillarious man!!!
> 
> And as far as I am concerned it is the "southern flounder" that I always thought I was FISHING for with rod and reel, all these years. But if there are a couple different subspecies, or genus(I'm guessing you will be googling this word,lol) I have to say......it doesn't concern or bother me at all. All I know is that ALL flounder are down all over the coast and scarce in certain areas they use to be thick in. That is all we need to know professor Leemo, but if you feel you need to "educate" us please do. If you have anymore hillarious theorys like the toilet one please post them, that made me laugh my rear off,lol!


you are right, I don't even know what a flounder looks like, never caught one, never seen one, I don't even own a boat or a fishing pole, maybe someday someone will help me out, man, I would love to have your knowledge, until then, I guess I'll keep reading about flounder fishing hoping to catch one someday....


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## deke (Oct 5, 2004)

Leemo said:


> you are right, I don't even know what a flounder looks like, never caught one, never seen one, I don't even own a boat or a fishing pole, maybe someday someone will help me out, man, I would love to have your knowledge, until then, I guess I'll keep reading about flounder fishing hoping to catch one someday....


Great response, you made some good points,lol! 
Us sporties will continue to flush our toilets, and use fancy soaps, and I will still have to disagree with you that us flushing a stinker isn't causing the flounder to dissappear from West bay? And I can't blame the lack of flounder on the coast on my neighbor for washing his car or having a nice lawn. I'm guessing you might have some connection to commercial fishing? Commercial fishing/ shrimping, and the lighted private boats are our problem, IMO. Based on what I have read on this whole thread, most believe the same thing as I do.

If we continue to retire shrimping lic., and do away with commercial giggers, and gigging from boats that would allieviate a majority part of our of our problems. The portion that consists because of a growing base of fisherman is something we can't control, along with some environmental factors. I don't enjoy busting your chops leemo, but blaming the decline of this fish on what you did was just such a reach for me. But I do know one thing, it looks like we are all passionate about these fish, and we all want to see them thrive like the reds have since they were taken off the commercial list.


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## squidmotion (Apr 5, 2007)

i doubt there will be a flounder run worth fishing west galveston bay this year....

when you see gig boats coming in with full limits of NICE flounder (you get to pick and choose what you stick.... fishermen don't)... and the guys who go out... get a limit, then go back out after midnight for more... yeah, it happens. 

not hard to do the math and see that hurts the fishery.... you can justify gigging all you want, but you'll never sell me on it being harmless to the flounder population... 

everyone knows how i feel about this, so don't flame me, it's old news ... this is just my opinion, and one i am not going to change. i feel flounder should be given game fish status, taken off restaurant menus, and gigging made illegal.... 

facts:
a) there are more commercial giggers and recreational giggers than ever.
b) by-catch is part of the problem, but gigging targets specifically flounder. 
c) the biggest and best fish are taken by the gig.
d) the flounder numbers ARE declining. 
e) lots of wounded smaller fish are thrown back.


why can't they at least outlaw commercial flounder gigging? or these guided trips where some dork from out of state gets to stab a 10lb fish in the head?

a fish that lived a full life by being wary of danger, probably nearly caught on a rod and reel a few times.... just to get nailed by some goob with a spear in his hand.


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## ol' bayrat (Oct 14, 2006)

*Quit'yer Whining*

Aw, come on now, I'm with John Galt on this one. If they make recreational giggin' illegal then I think we ought'a go back to cane poles an piggy perch. We ought'a all stop whining about how the other guy's cheatin' an just go fishin'. Fishin' is fishin'. . . you do it your way and I'll do it mine.


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## WestEndAngler (Jan 30, 2007)

There will be a huge number of flounder for the run this year are you kidding!? I've been out there more that most seen the small flounder, seen the babies and juvenile. Flounder have increased over the last 3 years in West Bay prior to this year I hadn't caught one on rod & reel in at least a few years... Currently there are a lot right at the 14-15" mark. I've taken many on trips teaching them what to look for where to go when to target because sooner than later something is going to happen with this sport.I just hope that they don't outlaw one of my favorite hobbies... recreational gigging on foot.


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## troutomatic1488 (Jun 18, 2006)

the flounder declined in galveston the fall of 2000 because of red tide that kept reocuring it killed every shad and most of the flounder during the fall run that year our shad and flounder population have been getting better each year since then it is sad to see fishermen that turn on each other so quickly


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## Moonpie (Jun 20, 2004)

I've watched the flounder disappear in the SLP area over the last few years.
The floundering boats are out there almost every night HAMMERING the flounder.
NO WAY is it by catch. There wasn't even a run last fall!
Say what you want. I've seen it. 
I don't want to see gigging outlawed but I do want to see it banned from boats.
On foot only. And a 5 fish limit!


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## notthatdeep (Feb 5, 2005)

Don't know the exact species I'm after but am considering dynamite to make it easier.

By the way, I've heard that 40% of the final effluent from toilets in 
Texas end up in Galveston Bay. Seems like we already ARE downstream.

ntd


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## troutomatic1488 (Jun 18, 2006)

Moonpie said:


> I've watched the flounder disappear in the SLP area over the last few years.
> The floundering boats are out there almost every night HAMMERING the flounder.
> NO WAY is it by catch. There wasn't even a run last fall!
> Say what you want. I've seen it.
> ...


 on any weekend there is probally 500 boats and a few thousand wade and beach fishermen that fish slp area and because there are six boats out gigging at night we dont have any flounder ?i caught more than 20 limits of flounder last year at slp during the run its not there was not a run they just took if different route they were not at the bridge on the galveston side like they have been in past years but they were there


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## Tankfxr (Dec 26, 2007)

If a limit is kept why does it matter if you get it from a boat or walking. I have probably walked as many miles as anyone else on here since i was 8 i enjoy walking for flounder. Last year i built a floundering boat and i enjoy that also. I have been floundering long enough that i know the difference in a keeper and a small one. Drop the limit to 5 or whatever that is fine but don't do away with it totally. It is an enjoyable thing to do you get to see so much more then just flounder. You can learn from your trips. I probably go out twice a month and see just as many now as i have when i was younger. I don't see the difference in the argument of taking a flounder by rod and reel or taking them by gig you are still taking them it is still a challenge to go out there and get them no mater how you do it. If you take 5 with rod and reel or you take 5 with a gig what is the difference. You can say it is not sporting to do it with a gig ok i guess that is your opinion but what about hunting. Is it sporting to plant a patch or grass or put up a feeder or put out a bunch of scents that will draw in a deer so you can sit there and shoot it. I don't see a difference. I shoot one deer a year from a feeder and i dont consider that as hunting. I do it so that i can get some good meat in the freezer. That is why i flounder, so that i can get some meat in the freezer. I guess im just ranting because i dont want to see something that i have been doing most of my life go away. I want to be able to take my eventual children floundering so that they can see how much fun it is like i did when my parents took me. Do away with commercial floundering, i hate to see that happen because i know people who have made their living doing that but i guess that is life. OK im done. Just what i think.


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## jabx1962 (Nov 9, 2004)

TROUTOMATIC said:


> i caught more than 20 limits of flounder last year at slp during the run


Did you keep 200 Flounder?


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## troutomatic1488 (Jun 18, 2006)

jabx1962 said:


> Did you keep 200 Flounder?


yes i kept more than that is just how many limits i had i fish mon-fri 52 weeks a year


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## jabx1962 (Nov 9, 2004)

TROUTOMATIC said:


> yes i kept more than that is just how many limits i had i fish mon-fri 52 weeks a year


Are you growing Gills yet?


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## troutomatic1488 (Jun 18, 2006)

jabx1962 said:


> Are you growing Gills yet?


not yet but im still trying i have learned alot over the last 40 years of fishing slp and the last 20 years i have been fishing that area 5 days a week i feel i have as much knowledge of that area as anyone i have had alot of old fishermen show me the ropes and now i am one of the old fishermen and most of the old ones are gone


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## Toddbo34 (Jul 30, 2006)

I have been gigging several times this year already and yes it was out of a boat. Don't be jealous!! I personally don't see the flounder population issue. Every time I go I see plenty of flounder in all size ranges. The last two trips we limited out within a short period of time. So I have to question everyone that says they haven't caught any flounder. Maybe it's in their talent to fish? 


I will also say this again......it has to do with the water temps in our bay systems getting hotter and remaining hotter during the runs. Warmer temps equal male fish where as cooler water temps equals females. Don't believe me contact TPWD like I did and get the real scoop. Gigging is not going away for the recreational gigger. Just like I said before it wouldn't be until Sept.09 when the changes took place.


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## troutomatic1488 (Jun 18, 2006)

i would bet there are more flounder caught on rod and reel in one week during the flounder run at sea wolf park area than are gigged by all giggers combined in galveston county for a year there are not that many commercial giggers out there they are only allowed 60 fish if they sell to a fish market this is monitored by tpw the restaurant owners are the ones buying from outlaws and poachers giados in galveston takes out a one page add in the paper offering to buy flounder from anyone most restaurant flounder are rec fishermen selling there catch illegally


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## deke (Oct 5, 2004)

TROUTOMATIC said:


> i would bet there are more flounder caught on rod and reel in one week during the flounder run at sea wolf park area than are gigged by all giggers combined in galveston county for a year there are not that many commercial giggers out there they are only allowed 60 fish if they sell to a fish market this is monitored by tpw the restaurant owners are the ones buying from outlaws and poachers giados in galveston takes out a one page add in the paper offering to buy flounder from anyone most restaurant flounder are rec fishermen selling there catch illegally


Come on... you can't really believe that first statement? You sound like you are OK with the commercial fisherman, are you one? 
And can you truely believe that there are recreational fisherman knocking on the back door of Gaidos, "pssstt, you guys want to but some flounder? best sh$! on the bay", LOL! Come on man, I don't know one person that has ever sold a single fish of any species.


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## captgigger (Apr 19, 2008)

i think it is just a lack of knowledge on how to catch them. went last weekend with my bro, walking and gigged 2 limits. thats 20 fish in less than 3 hours. if there is a decline in population where you are blame it on the shrimpers.


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## redfishflyfisherdds (Mar 16, 2005)

Capt Gigger...you are right on. I believe it stems from fishermen who don't see the sport in gigging blaming giggers for their misfortunes of not catching many flounder on their rods when in actuality the devastation that shrimping plays on the flounder population in Oct - nov is the real culprit.


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## captgigger (Apr 19, 2008)

guess everyone went out looking for flounder. no post in almost 2 weeks. i'm sure someone has something to say!!


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## troutomatic1488 (Jun 18, 2006)

deke said:


> Come on... you can't really believe that first statement? You sound like you are OK with the commercial fisherman, are you one?
> And can you truely believe that there are recreational fisherman knocking on the back door of Gaidos, "pssstt, you guys want to but some flounder? best sh$! on the bay", LOL! Come on man, I don't know one person that has ever sold a single fish of any species.


you must not know many people or you dont know many people that catch fish why are you not ok with commercial fishermen industrial pollution has killed more fish than all the fishermen since jesus you dont seem to be bashing industry are you just mad at people that catch more fish than you


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## Freshwaterman (May 21, 2004)

> *when in actuality the devastation that shrimping plays on the flounder population in Oct - nov is the real culprit.*


Who shrimps in Oct - Nov? Summer's shrimping season.

Have you ever been on a shrimp boat? Have you ever shrimped? Have you ever gone through a pile on the back of a boat?

In all the shrimping that I've been part of I only saw a couple of southern flounder get caught. Many days we wouldn't catch any, some days one or two at most.

The bulk of the "flounders" that we caught weren't southerns. The rest were hog nose chokers and 3 spots. These are species that stay very small and many people mistake them for juvenile southern flounder.


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## redfishflyfisherdds (Mar 16, 2005)

SpeckledTrout said:


> Who shrimps in Oct - Nov? Summer's shrimping season.
> 
> Have you ever been on a shrimp boat? Have you ever shrimped? Have you ever gone through a pile on the back of a boat?
> 
> ...


CLARIFY *YOUR* experience level....are you an offshore shrimper or bay shrimper. I've been on several bay shrimping boats (Bait) and more than "a couple of southern flounder" were in w/ the lot. If you are shrimping offshore then I certainly wouldn't expect you to catch many flounder....but it is a different story moving into the bays. Go take a ride on a shrimp boat in the bay next summer and look what is emptied out....then let us know what you saw.


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## Freshwaterman (May 21, 2004)

> more than "a couple of southern flounder" were in w/ the lot


Like I said, MANY people mistake other species as southern flounder.

We aren't a shrimping family. My father recently retired as a Marine Biologist.

I've been on lots of bay and gulf boats, both as work and with my dad. I've been with him when they were sampling and "trying" to catch flounder. It didn't work very good.


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## Leemo (Nov 16, 2006)

redfishflyfisherdds said:


> CLARIFY *YOUR* experience level....are you an offshore shrimper or bay shrimper. I've been on several bay shrimping boats (Bait) and more than "a couple of southern flounder" were in w/ the lot. If you are shrimping offshore then I certainly wouldn't expect you to catch many flounder....but it is a different story moving into the bays. Go take a ride on a shrimp boat in the bay next summer and look what is emptied out....then let us know what you saw.


Shrimpers created hurricane Ike too, they went around and around in the Gulf till' they stirred all the waters "up".... darn shrimpers..... I heard the shrimpers are also the blame for the Astros bad season this yr....


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## redfishflyfisherdds (Mar 16, 2005)

Leemo said:


> Shrimpers created hurricane Ike too, they went around and around in the Gulf till' they stirred all the waters "up".... darn shrimpers..... I heard the shrimpers are also the blame for the Astros bad season this yr....


Exactly!


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## Freshwaterman (May 21, 2004)

This is a little off topic, but commercial fisherman aren't "the devil" that some people make them out to be. Too often they are the scapegoat for some problem, either real or perceived.


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## Leemo (Nov 16, 2006)

SpeckledTrout said:


> This is a little off topic, but commercial fisherman aren't "the devil" that some people make them out to be. Too often they are the scapegoat for some problem, either real or perceived.


At least somebody *has* some sense, thanks.... LK


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## deke (Oct 5, 2004)

TROUTOMATIC said:


> you must not know many people or you dont know many people that catch fish why are you not ok with commercial fishermen industrial pollution has killed more fish than all the fishermen since jesus you dont seem to be bashing industry are you just mad at people that catch more fish than you


You avioded my questions, shocker. You are right I don't know anyone that is a successful fisherman...great come back guy,lol. Why am I not OK with commercial fisherman, hell man just look around the globe at the devestation"CERTAIN" types of commercial fishing causes. And in our case here on the Texas coast commercial flounder gigging and shrimping is detrimental to our population of flounder and coaker(plaus other smaller species). And all of us recreational fisherman contribute a hell of alot more to our economy than does either of the afore mentioned fishing professions. If your profession didn't impact our fishery negatively than we wouldn't have a problem with it, but they do, so we do.

"industrial pollution has killed more fish than all the fishermen since jesus ", LOL, LOL!!! Another classic statement,lol! This is so ridiculous I can't figure out where to begin to start on this one, so I will just LMFAO and let everyone else do the same!

"are you just mad at people that catch more fish than you"
No freaking way!? This is such an original put down, and on a fishing site no less! Man you must have really reached deep to come up with this one. How many hours with the thesaurus and dictionary did you put in to come up with this clever comeback/insult? You have quoted nothing but your feelings. Seriously man, please let this be.

And no we all don't think that commercail fisherman are "the devil", but.....
Commercial fisherman ARE a large part of the flounder decline on the Texas coast, (as well as croaker), and if you have any other facts to disprove this please post them up. And I vaguely remember commercial fisherman comming close to destroying our fishery going after redfish? Anyone remember that? Just look at the states that still allow COMMERCIAL fishing inshore, and compare thier fishery to those that don't. IMO that makes commercial fishing the enemy to alot of fisheries, but in no means the "devil" as YOU put it. They are IMO a detriment to our fishery on the Texas coast. If you have any facts to change my mind please post them.


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## BACLIFF BERT (Nov 29, 2006)

deke said:


> You avioded my questions, shocker. You are right I don't know anyone that is a successful fisherman...great come back guy,lol. Why am I not OK with commercial fisherman, hell man just look around the globe at the devestation"CERTAIN" types of commercial fishing causes. And in our case here on the Texas coast commercial flounder gigging and shrimping is detrimental to our population of flounder and coaker(plaus other smaller species). And all of us recreational fisherman contribute a hell of alot more to our economy than does either of the afore mentioned fishing professions. If your profession didn't impact our fishery negatively than we wouldn't have a problem with it, but they do, so we do.
> 
> "industrial pollution has killed more fish than all the fishermen since jesus ", LOL, LOL!!! Another classic statement,lol! This is so ridiculous I can't figure out where to begin to start on this one, so I will just LMFAO and let everyone else do the same!
> 
> ...


Deke,


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## BACLIFF BERT (Nov 29, 2006)

deke said:


> Come on... you can't really believe that first statement? You sound like you are OK with the commercial fisherman, are you one?
> And can you truely believe that there are recreational fisherman knocking on the back door of Gaidos, "pssstt, you guys want to but some flounder? best sh$! on the bay", LOL! Come on man, I don't know one person that has ever sold a single fish of any species.


*right on*


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## BACLIFF BERT (Nov 29, 2006)

deke said:


> Doubt it, but if it does happen, and I hope it does, it will be some kind of modified law IMO. I agree with Jeff, the marsh systems are nescesary. That is why Louisiana has such a great population of fish, thier marsh system is huge, thus supporting the trout and redfish hatchery. and I know that the shrimping take a huge toll as well especially here in Galveston and the middle coast. But the lower coast is suffereing as well, and they have very few shrimpers. So IMO it has to be something else causing it?
> 
> But on a personal note, I would like to see it OK by foot, but a no go from a boat, and cut back serverely on commercial gigging, if not make it go bye bye all together. Just my opinion based on the disappearance of flounder in my home bay, West Bay. Four to five years ago they started to become a rarity. We use to be able to bump bottom with plastics and catch a couple for dinner, it was a given in certain spots. Now we can go a couple months and not catch a keeper flounder. Just watch the coves in the warm months at night. Boat after boat, one after the other working the same shorelines. And the fall run through San Louis insn't near what it use to be. IMO Something needs to be done. I am glad to see TP&W starting a stocking program for flounder, but they are more difficult to raise than trout and reds, and we need to release more than a few thousand fry in one spot, we needs thousands all up and down the coast.


*Valid points.*


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## Freshwaterman (May 21, 2004)

Yes, it's true...shrimpers have long been destroying the fishery for trout and reds. I guess that's why it has been so difficult to catch limits of trout and reds in West Matagorda Bay for the last 30+ years. Not! 

It's a great system and always has been, as far as I'm concerned. When the limit was 20 trout and 10 reds we did it quite often. Wait a minute, that can't be, there were way too many shrimpers back then. Surely, the trout populations had to have been decimated by all that scouring of the bay's bottom?

They(shrimpers) do catch a lot of croaker, though. However, I've yet to catch a trout or red that had eaten one on their own when I examined their stomach contents. Never, not once, have I or anyone I talked to found one in their belly unless it already had a hole in its back from a croaker hook! 

By the way, how would most people catch fish without the croaker that shrimpers catch? Wait....maybe getting rid of the shrimpers would be a good thing......there'd be a lot less fisherman! Let's do it! LOL.


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## Freshwaterman (May 21, 2004)

Oh, let me add, there's some very good floundering in W. Mata., as well. Even with all the shrimpers. Imagine that, flounder in the Shrimping Capital of Texas...

And, no one's argueing that commercial fisherman(gillnetters and tramble netters) specifically targeting finfish can't have an impact, because they can under certain circumstances. 

However, shrimpers don't target southern flounder. Nor, do they catch that many. Go out on any bay boat and you'd see this. Especially, if you can differentiate a southern from a 3-spot or hog nose.


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## Dipsay (Apr 28, 2006)

Dont take it personal guys...DEKE just doesnt like giggers. He feels it's cheating..I'm a recreational gigger myself and was BASHED by him on a few threads..You'd have thought I was the devil reincarnate because I had a good year last year..I gig therefore I am...


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## Leemo (Nov 16, 2006)

Dipsay said:


> Dont take it personal guys...DEKE just doesnt like giggers. He feels it's cheating..I'm a recreational gigger myself and was BASHED by him on a few threads..You'd have thought I was the devil reincarnate because I had a good year last year..I gig therefore I am...


I don't, I consider the source.........


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## BACLIFF BERT (Nov 29, 2006)

SpeckledTrout said:


> shrimpers don't target southern flounder. Nor, do they catch that many. Go out on any bay boat and you'd see this. Especially, if you can differentiate a southern from a 3-spot or hog nose.


Sounds like you have some experience on a Shrimp Boat, then you have seen for your own eyes how that for every 25 lbs of shrimp there is 75 lbs of mostly dead by-catch. Every drag I saw hauled up was loaded with small, dead flounder and I saw the different speicies of flounder but the 3 spots and others are kind of rare in comparison to how many juvenile Southern flounder are on on the culling table.

I say there is a problem with shrimp boats, not rec giggers.


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## captgigger (Apr 19, 2008)

Leemo said:


> Shrimpers created hurricane Ike too, they went around and around in the Gulf till' they stirred all the waters "up".... darn shrimpers..... I heard the shrimpers are also the blame for the Astros bad season this yr....


i blame them for my chapped a**


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## captgigger (Apr 19, 2008)

BACLIFF BERT said:


> I say there is a problem with shrimp boats, not rec giggers.


so does everyone else with any knowledge.


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## Saltstalker (Jun 6, 2008)

Sounds like something needs to be done , but I would sure hate to see the great tradition of a father and son walking a shoreline togather with lanterns sticking a few flats come to an end. I have great memories or this with my father !
Be carefull of dividing amoung yourselves because you will be conquered ! All of us have something that we love and would hate to lose because it dosnt have any importance to someone else. Stick togather ! No pun intended.


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## hkemup (Dec 13, 2005)

I would love to see TPWD do away with the commercial floundering. These guys are allowed take 60 per night and are out there much more than us rec's who are limited to 10. I've been taking my 10 year old son to my old gigging grounds and its hard to find a handful of fish. These same grounds gave up 20+ on a regular basis 20 yrs. ago.


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## Freshwaterman (May 21, 2004)

> I saw the different speicies of flounder but the 3 spots and others are kind of rare in comparison to how many juvenile Southern flounder are on on the culling table.


This is completely false. Hog nose chokers are the bulk of the species caught. How else can I say it? You are getting your species confused, which unfortunately is very, very common.

I guess a Marine Biologist with over 30 years experience identifying different species doesn't have any experience IYHO?



> I say there is a problem with shrimp boats, not rec giggers.


I don't have a problem with either.



> These guys are allowed take 60 per night and are out there much more than us rec's who are limited to 10.


Sixty sounds like more than enough to me, as well. However, it's a whole lot less than some of them use to gig. I've seen hundreds taken in a night. They had to stop to keep the boat floating.



> I say there is a problem with shrimp boats, *so does everyone else with any knowledge.*


 Wow... or with a different opinion.


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## captgigger (Apr 19, 2008)

SpeckledTrout said:


> Wow... or with a different opinion.


thats the problem here it is all opinion, no facts to back any of this up!!
my opinion; regulate shrimpers, do away with comm. gigging. rec giggers continue with their normal routine, whether that be from boat or foot. personally i prefer a boat with 6000 watts of light and a 30 hp air motor to push my lard butt around. oh yea, and an ice chest full of blue bellies!


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## redfishflyfisherdds (Mar 16, 2005)

captgigger said:


> i blame them for my chapped a**


Sounds like you need some Gold Bond captgigger....maybe that and a blue belly and you could have yourself some fun!!


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## Freshwaterman (May 21, 2004)

> no facts to back any of this up


What are you calling facts? There is data, but I don't have access to it. I'll see if my father can still access it, even though he's retired. He may or may not be able to get it.

However, get a book that keys out the different species, pull a net, and then look at the species carefully, for yourself, if you don't believe me. They aren't going to be southerns.


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## captgigger (Apr 19, 2008)

SpeckledTrout said:


> What are you calling facts? There is data, but I don't have access to it. I'll see if my father can still access it, even though he's retired. He may or may not be able to get it.
> 
> However, get a book that keys out the different species, pull a net, and then look at the species carefully, for yourself, if you don't believe me. They aren't going to be southerns.


i dont care what the species are. they all taste the same to me. maybe it does to the biologists. never said anything about not believing anyone. i will take a picture of my next limit i gig and you can tell us all what the species are.


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## Leemo (Nov 16, 2006)

captgigger said:


> i dont care what the species are. they all taste the same to me. maybe it does to the biologists. never said anything about not believing anyone. i will take a picture of my next limit i gig and you can tell us all what the species are.


Sometimes it is better to be quiet and leave others to guess, than to open your mouth and prove...... in other words, for your info. the southern flounder is the only flounder in Texas that is recognized as table fare!


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## chicapesca (Jun 7, 2004)

SpeckledTrout, are you saying you don't have a problem with flounder being among the bycatch of bay shrimpers? When a shrimper catches 4 pounds of bycatch to every pound of shrimp, this according to TPWD. Just curious.


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## BACLIFF BERT (Nov 29, 2006)

*Today, there is a scheduled meeting at the Texas Park & Wildlifes Marine Lab in Dickinson, Tx on FM 517.*

*Phone number is 281 534 0100 but I can't get any one to answer the phones for confirmation.*

*Time for this public meeting are supposed to begin at 6p.*

*I should be there if this happens.*


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## redfishflyfisherdds (Mar 16, 2005)

BS that shrimpers don't catch Southern Flounder...they sell them to fish markets as part of their profit...thats a fact! For all the "commercial shimpers do no wrong" cult, intelligently gather your "facts" before saying they are mainly hognose, screwlip, lesser flounder that shrimpers pull up. AGAIN>>>>BS!! 

Just to clarify..."thats a fact!" statement has been proven to me time and time again by the "fellow" that sells shrimp to me. He consistently has bags of flounder filets for sale that he openly admits were dragged in his bay shrimping boat. I will not take for gospel the word of a retired biologists son that used to survey what was caught on shrimp boats as factual.


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## Leemo (Nov 16, 2006)

redfishflyfisherdds said:


> BS that shrimpers don't catch Southern Flounder...they sell them to fish markets as part of their profit...thats a fact! For all the "commercial shimpers do no wrong" cult, intelligently gather your "facts" before saying they are mainly hognose, screwlip, lesser flounder that shrimpers pull up. AGAIN>>>>BS!!


*11047.5*
*24814.3*


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## redfishflyfisherdds (Mar 16, 2005)

Just to clarify..."thats a fact!" statement has been proven to me time and time again by the "fellow" that sells shrimp to me. He consistently has bags of flounder filets for sale that he openly admits were dragged in his bay shrimping boat. I will not take for gospel the word of a retired biologists son that used to survey what was caught on shrimp boats as factual.[/QUOTE]


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## Leemo (Nov 16, 2006)

redfishflyfisherdds said:


> Just to clarify..."thats a fact!" statement has been proven to me time and time again by the "fellow" that sells shrimp to me. He consistently has bags of flounder filets for sale that he openly admits were dragged in his bay shrimping boat. I will not take for gospel the word of a retired biologists son that used to survey what was caught on shrimp boats as factual.


[/QUOTE] 
*11047.7*
*24777.4*


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## redfishflyfisherdds (Mar 16, 2005)

redfishflyfisherdds said:


> Just to clarify..."thats a fact!" statement has been proven to me time and time again by the "fellow" that sells shrimp to me. He consistently has bags of flounder filets for sale that he openly admits were dragged in his bay shrimping boat. I will not take for gospel the word of a retired biologists son that used to survey what was caught on shrimp boats as factual.


[/QUOTE].


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## BACLIFF BERT (Nov 29, 2006)

Leemo said:


> *11047.5*
> *24814.3*


Whats this suppose to be?


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## Freshwaterman (May 21, 2004)

My father worked the Matagorda systems primarily and their catch returns showed very low numbers of southerns. Apparently, this wasn't the case for all systems.

Upon furthur investigation, I discovered that I wasn't totally correct with my original statements concerning flounder. Although the vast majority of the "flounder" caught in shrimp trawls weren't southerns, it seems that in some systems, their numbers were quite high. 

Aransas Bay, for one, showed pretty high numbers. Depending on the bay system and when and where they are dragging, they might run into higher numbers. Apparently, in some systems, this has been the case. And, the areas being shrimped conincided with migratory flounder which apparently led to their being caught.

Also, I wouldn't think that all the flounder, or fish of any species for that matter, that are caught, die. Most shrimpers that I know, clear their decks as fast as possible because they are going to be pulling in another one pretty quickly. I looked at some studies that indicated that even many of the fish put in "salt boxes" survive the ordeal. 

For those of you that don't know what a salt box is, they are what shrimpers sometimes use to separate the shrimp from the fish that they caught in their nets. It makes the shrimp sink and the fish go to the top resulting in less handling time for the shrimpers, so they can return to their next catch.


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## SpoonColors (Oct 29, 2007)

*flounder gigging*

There's a reason why they don't let you hunt for deer at night with a light. That same reasoning should be applied to flounder gigging. Get rid of the gigging and make the flounder a game fish. By game fish, I mean not letting them be sold in restaurants or markets. They did that to the redfish and look at the results today. I personally would go a little further and outlaw the use of any live bait...period. The shrimpers in their quest for live croakers, destroy millions of baby flounder. LEARN TO FISH PEOPLE...YOU'LL ENJOY IT!

George:fish: ><((('>


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## captgigger (Apr 19, 2008)

SpoonColors said:


> There's a reason why they don't let you hunt for deer at night with a light. That same reasoning should be applied to flounder gigging. Get rid of the gigging and make the flounder a game fish. By game fish, I mean not letting them be sold in restaurants or markets. They did that to the redfish and look at the results today. I personally would go a little further and outlaw the use of any live bait...period. The shrimpers in their quest for live croakers, destroy millions of baby flounder. LEARN TO FISH PEOPLE...YOU'LL ENJOY IT!
> 
> George:fish: ><((('>


learn to gig people you'll enjoy it alot more. hellofa lot more action if you know where to go.


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## bigfish5 (Jun 7, 2006)

There are a lot of different arguments on here about walking vs. boats and rod and reels vs. gigging. I went floundering this past weekend out of a nice boat mind you and went to cleaning table with our 33 fish (we had 5 people on the boat) to see a guy and his buddy that were walking and had just over 80 flounder. So I don't think the means of transportation affect the amount you get. As for rod and reel fishing I feel it is just as easy to hammer them when the run is on (supported by the stingers the guys on the rock where sporting). This was by far my most successful trip and there have been many over the years where I had very few fish if any. I would say the best plan of action would be to reduce the limits across the board and have some enforcement of the rules especially during the run. I have never been checked by a GW after a flounder trip. How hard would it be to sit in your truck and wait for boat to roll in?


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## Moonpie (Jun 20, 2004)

Went the flounder meeting last night.
I got the impression gigging is a non-issue.
It will take a combination of factors to rebound flounder.
New regulations on size will probably be upcoming.
Evidently the warmer winters we've been having are detrimental to flounder reproduction. We need cold weather/water for them.

T.P.&W. said there were about 320 commercial licensees. With about 40 active. Most commercial harvest was in the Aransas/San Antonio bay systems. Some in Galveston bay system. Most Galveston Bay harvest was recreational harvest.


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## Muddskipper (Dec 29, 2004)

SpoonColors said:


> There's a reason why they don't let you hunt for deer at night with a light. That same reasoning should be applied to flounder gigging. Get rid of the gigging and make the flounder a game fish.


Do your research.....I am not a gigger.....so your comment would not affect me....but gigging is not the problem....

Just because there out there at night does not mean they are doing something wrong....

TPWD has 25+ years of stats, graphs, and numbers.....

There presentation changed the way I looked at the issue


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## Toddbo34 (Jul 30, 2006)

I think I had mentioned once before something about water temps affecting the flounder population during the run. But still we recreational guys continue to blame each other. I don't think the commercial guys dispute with each other. It will be to our demise.


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## Toddbo34 (Jul 30, 2006)

SpoonColors said:


> There's a reason why they don't let you hunt for deer at night with a light. That same reasoning should be applied to flounder gigging. Get rid of the gigging and make the flounder a game fish. By game fish, I mean not letting them be sold in restaurants or markets. They did that to the redfish and look at the results today. I personally would go a little further and outlaw the use of any live bait...period. The shrimpers in their quest for live croakers, destroy millions of baby flounder. LEARN TO FISH PEOPLE...YOU'LL ENJOY IT!
> 
> George:fish: ><((('>


BS!!! I think they should stop fishing with hooks! It's the guys with hooks that are causing the problem!! Ha ha ha ha!!!

Redfish have a huge successful restocking program so how can you compare?


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## SpoonColors (Oct 29, 2007)

Sooooooooo......they can restock reds but they can't restock flounder? It was a combination of declaring them game fish combined with stopping the rough fish gill netting to restocking that gave us todays large volume of reds. The same can be done with the flounder.


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## Toddbo34 (Jul 30, 2006)

SpoonColors said:


> Sooooooooo......they can restock reds but they can't restock flounder? It was a combination of declaring them game fish combined with stopping the rough fish gill netting to restocking that gave us todays large volume of reds. The same can be done with the flounder.


Changing redfish into a gamefish wasn't the only thing that brought them back is my point. Outlawing live bait? Give me a break!!


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## deke (Oct 5, 2004)

Sooooooooo......they can restock reds but they can't restock flounder

Yes they can, but flounder are a much harder species to breed in captivity. I beleive it was South Carolina that has pioneered flounder restocking. So please don't think it is as simple as redfish or trout to restock, and those aren't easy by any means. It would take a concerted effort and funds by TP&W to even come close to the # of trout or redfish fingerlings realeased. First step game fish status, hard to get funds if they aren't game fish.


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## SpoonColors (Oct 29, 2007)

*flounder re-stock*

You're right....flounder are more difficult to restock.....but isn't that why we pay that saltwater stamp fee? Have you ever seen a shrimper dump his catch on the deck. Thousands of baby flounder destroyed with every hull. Neither gigging or artificial bait fishing are the real problem. The bait and shrimp netting is slowly devastating the bay systems and no one wants to even talk about it. When was the last time you saw a 2 lb croaker? I moved here in 1977 and during the croaker run, you could sink the boat with them. TP&W finally got smart and limited fishermen to one large trout because the croaker soakers were out of control. Again....its never gonna happen.....but i'd like to see all live bait eliminated. TP&W is more interested in selling fishing licences then preserving the bay. 
I'm not interested in winning new friends on this issue....I'm just interested in my grandchildren getting the same pleasure out of bay fishing that I've enjoyed for the last 40 years. People should hire guides to teach them how to use artificial baits. After a few trips they'll get it. Over the long run they'll save lots of money and the bay will be a better place for it.

G. :fish:


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## nightgigger (Oct 13, 2008)

*re: future of Flounder*

I was at the Flounder scoping meeting Wednesday night. I got there very early, and talked to them about how the flounder breeding program is going.
They have had one successful run, but the fish had to be injected with hormones to 
Get them to breed outside of the light cycle/water pressure they are expecting.
This works in a lab setting, but may not scale up well.
For our part, if we can get Healthy breed stock to Lake Jackson, they will have more to work with. They said they need fish from each bay system.
I am still thinking how to collect flounder without the holes.

nightgigger


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## Toddbo34 (Jul 30, 2006)

nightgigger said:


> I was at the Flounder scoping meeting Wednesday night. I got there very early, and talked to them about how the flounder breeding program is going.
> They have had one successful run, but the fish had to be injected with hormones to
> Get them to breed outside of the light cycle/water pressure they are expecting.
> This works in a lab setting, but may not scale up well.
> ...


 PM sent on how to dip net them without gigging.


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## DMC (Apr 2, 2006)

SpoonColors said:


> You're right....flounder are more difficult to restock.....but isn't that why we pay that saltwater stamp fee? Have you ever seen a shrimper dump his catch on the deck. Thousands of baby flounder destroyed with every hull. Neither gigging or artificial bait fishing are the real problem. The bait and shrimp netting is slowly devastating the bay systems and no one wants to even talk about it. When was the last time you saw a 2 lb croaker? I moved here in 1977 and during the croaker run, you could sink the boat with them. TP&W finally got smart and limited fishermen to one large trout because the croaker soakers were out of control. Again....its never gonna happen.....but i'd like to see all live bait eliminated. TP&W is more interested in selling fishing licences then preserving the bay.
> I'm not interested in winning new friends on this issue....I'm just interested in my grandchildren getting the same pleasure out of bay fishing that I've enjoyed for the last 40 years. People should hire guides to teach them how to use artificial baits. After a few trips they'll get it. Over the long run they'll save lots of money and the bay will be a better place for it.
> 
> G. :fish:


Hold on a minute, you start off saying it's the commercial guys then you conclude with outlawing live bait fishing?

Why does everyone want to outlaw everything they aren't interested in? What about those people who don't like to fish at all, and think fishing itself should be outlawed?

Why not start with your preferred method and outlaw that before you go outlawing everything else.

Hire guides? You gonna loan then the money or are you just trolling for responses? Trolling should be outlawed.


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## deke (Oct 5, 2004)

SpoonColors said:


> You're right....flounder are more difficult to restock.....but isn't that why we pay that saltwater stamp fee? Have you ever seen a shrimper dump his catch on the deck. Thousands of baby flounder destroyed with every hull. Neither gigging or artificial bait fishing are the real problem. The bait and shrimp netting is slowly devastating the bay systems and no one wants to even talk about it. When was the last time you saw a 2 lb croaker? I moved here in 1977 and during the croaker run, you could sink the boat with them. TP&W finally got smart and limited fishermen to one large trout because the croaker soakers were out of control. Again....its never gonna happen.....but i'd like to see all live bait eliminated. TP&W is more interested in selling fishing licences then preserving the bay.
> I'm not interested in winning new friends on this issue....I'm just interested in my grandchildren getting the same pleasure out of bay fishing that I've enjoyed for the last 40 years. People should hire guides to teach them how to use artificial baits. After a few trips they'll get it. Over the long run they'll save lots of money and the bay will be a better place for it.
> 
> G. :fish:


Yes I have seen what the shrimpers do, and yes they do the most damage in most places. I don't see any shrimp boats in the mid to lower west Galv. bay and it has been on a big decline for a decade. And I will have to disagree with you that bait fishing is one of the main factors of the flounder decline, trout issues yes, but not flounder. After shrimping it is gigging by boat, IMO.

1998, that was the last time I saw a 2lb. croaker, wading Dana cove my buddy Carl and I caught a half dozen on plastics. That was the last time. And you are preaching to the choir here about the decline of croaker, and we all know why, but this is a flounder thread. And you don't need a guide to teach you how to use lures, hell just read this board, and tie one on AND DON'T TAKE IT OFF after 10-15 minutes,lol. Have faith and patience you know they work, just read these boards and you can see that. But confidence and persistence is key.


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## BACLIFF BERT (Nov 29, 2006)

Giggers get a bad rap from the uneducated masses.

I was at the scope meeting as well and through provided materials and the presentation by TP&W it was evident to me that Anglers take way more Flounder than giggers. Bay trowlers are a big concern for TP&W as well.

Gigging impact is almost a non-issue in TP&W's eyes.


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## Laguna Freak (Nov 15, 2006)

*agreed*

I agree with Squidmotion. I mean I'm no conservation fanatic like some folks but I do think it is ridiculous to allow giigers to go out and load up when the populations are down so low. It seems to me that Gamefish status would work wonders for our Flounder populations.:texasflag


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## Cat's Meow (Sep 5, 2006)

The commercial flounder gigging needs to go away, as well as the shrimping industry (at least as we know it). While they are at it, why don't we also require that oysters be taken only by hand tonging, rather than by dredging or dragging, which probably does nothing to improve the bay ecosystem? I believe some east coast states have done this. Think of the jobs it would create, while improving the health of our bays. 
While we are kicking around ideas, how about a USDA subsidy program for mariculture like the ones we have for the corn and cotton farmers? This would stimulate the blossoming of an industry which is basically in its infancy at this point, creating cheap seafood, jobs, a whole new tax base for the states, and get the commercial fishermen off the bays and maybe out of the gulf.


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## Cat's Meow (Sep 5, 2006)

I agree, the commercial floundering industry needs to go away, as does commercial shrimping in its present form. While we are at it, why don't we get rid of commercial oyster dredging (or dragging, whatever they call it) and allow taking of oysters only by "hand tonging" which is the old fashioned way of doing it. Some states have already done this, I believe. It doesn't tear up the bottom of the bay, I read somewhere that it is actually healthy for the oyster beds, and think of the number of jobs it would create. 
While we are kicking around ideas, why not a USDA subsidy for mariculture in this country, like the ones for the corn farmers? It might stimulate the rapid development and growth of what is now sort of a fledgling industry in our coastal states. It would result in greater seafood production, less collateral damage to bay ecosystems, more jobs, and a whole new tax base for the state and local governments. It might even result in improved knowledge of the natural history and biology of many of our species of gamefish and lead to development of methods of breeding gamefish which could then be used for restocking gulf and bays. This has been successfully done with red drum, and to some extent trout but not much progress so far with other gamefish species. Maybe it just needs a subsidy. None of what I mentioned would apply to the production of catfish, tilapia,freshwater shrimp and other such non-indigenous GOM ecosystem species.


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## SpoonColors (Oct 29, 2007)

2 GUIDE TRIPS......$800
DIVIDED 3 WAYS.....$266 PER FISHERMAN
10 YEARS OF USING LIVE BAIT......DUH......do the math....
Its not about what I want or don't want......it's about bringing back the flounder population. 

Like I said...LEARN TO FISH.....YOU'LL ENJOY IT.


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## Toddbo34 (Jul 30, 2006)

Why don't we eliminate half the guides in the bay system? After all they too are part of the commercial industry. Then we could stop using hooks with barbs and only use cane poles, but no bobbers. All hooks need be barbless. No treble hooks and your mono can only be 6lb test. Also only allow 6 boats per Bay system at one time. No fishing under the birds!!! It will disrupt their migration habits. Also we should only allow fishing in water deeper than 12 feet so we don't disturb the bottom. yada yada yada yada....


The water temperstures during the migration have caused the big issue. Not the recreational fisherman!! But we can keep pointing no matter what and the TPWD regulation guide will eventually be as thick as a Webster dictionairy.


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## Big Willy (Jun 20, 2007)

Laguna Freak said:


> I agree with Squidmotion. I mean I'm no conservation fanatic like some folks but I do think it is ridiculous to allow giigers to go out and load up when the populations are down so low. It seems to me that Gamefish status would work wonders for our Flounder populations.:texasflag


I think it is ridiculous to let hordes of people go out to Seawolf Park or the ship channel or the jetties or San Luis pass or any other pass into the gulf during the run and load up on flounder right now when the populations are down so low. I am glad TPWD uses real research and data to justify their decisions. 

Game fish status would probably make a difference, but why should some of us give up doing something we enjoy so that you can keep catching fish without any changes? Seems pretty selfish and egocentric and it won't solve the problem. I went to the Scope meeting honestly thinking that shrimpers and commercial fisherman were the problem but they are no more part of the problem than the recreational fisherman. 

The only fair way to make changes will be for each entity that has a stake in the flounder fishery to be affected in a way with will ultimately be beneficial to the flounder population, not themselves. For recreational fisherman, giggers and rod and reel fisherman, it is going to result in us putting less pressure on the fish during their most vulnerable time, the fall run. This could be through seasonal closures of 2 weeks to 3 months. It will also require an across the board size increase of at least 1 inch maybe 2. For commercial fisherman it would be best to keep their bag limits where they are but put a quota on the entire commercial industry. 

So, what I am trying to say is: TPWD is not going to remove a factor from the current flounder fishery. Commercial is not going away, shrimpers are not going away, gigging is not going away in any form, recreational fisherman will not be going away. If we want to be helpful in regulatory changes we need to stop pointing fingers and try and find a useful solution that affects everyone.


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## Dell (Sep 10, 2005)

If you just follow the money spent, I think gigging is in trouble, giggers do not spend gazillions of dollars on rods, reels, bait, line, every color in the rainbow of plastics, topwaters, slow sinkers, etc. There is no huge monetary impact if the recreational giggers take the hit.

I also think some of the recreational giggers are really semi-pros if they are out gigging 3 or 4 nights every week. After all you can't do catch and release on a fish with holes in its side.

The botom line is a small amount of the population is doing the largest amount of the damage, how do we stop that without also hurting the rest of the group.


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## Toddbo34 (Jul 30, 2006)

Dell said:


> If you just follow the money spent, I think gigging is in trouble, giggers do not spend gazillions of dollars on rods, reels, bait, line, every color in the rainbow of plastics, topwaters, slow sinkers, etc. There is no huge monetary impact if the recreational giggers take the hit.
> 
> I also think some of the recreational giggers are really semi-pros if they are out gigging 3 or 4 nights every week. After all you can't do catch and release on a fish with holes in its side.
> 
> The botom line is a small amount of the population is doing the largest amount of the damage, how do we stop that without also hurting the rest of the group.


No monetary impact. Hmmmmmmm!!! Your right I haven't spent any money on lures to go gigging??? However I have spent just a little bit of money on a BOAT.


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## Big Willy (Jun 20, 2007)

Dell said:


> If you just follow the money spent, I think gigging is in trouble, giggers do not spend gazillions of dollars on rods, reels, bait, line, every color in the rainbow of plastics, topwaters, slow sinkers, etc. There is no huge monetary impact if the recreational giggers take the hit.
> 
> I also think some of the recreational giggers are really semi-pros if they are out gigging 3 or 4 nights every week. After all you can't do catch and release on a fish with holes in its side.
> 
> The botom line is a small amount of the population is doing the largest amount of the damage, how do we stop that without also hurting the rest of the group.


Please clarify your last statement. Are you talking about all giggers in general doing the largest amount of damage or are you talking about the semi-pro recreational guys that go out 3-4 times a week?


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## SpoonColors (Oct 29, 2007)

lol......at last the truth comes out.........I understand your bitterness now......


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## SpoonColors (Oct 29, 2007)

lol....the problem may be the propeller.....turn it off before you cast.....lol


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## DMC (Apr 2, 2006)

SpoonColors said:


> 2 GUIDE TRIPS......$800
> DIVIDED 3 WAYS.....$266 PER FISHERMAN
> 10 YEARS OF USING LIVE BAIT......DUH......do the math....
> Its not about what I want or don't want......it's about bringing back the flounder population.
> ...


 *

Galveston Yacht Club open* 
"The GYC is open.....ramp bait camp......plenty of bait"

-Spooncolors

Have you considered using a guide?


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## Toddbo34 (Jul 30, 2006)

SpoonColors said:


> lol......at last the truth comes out.........I understand your bitterness now......


It's not bitterness. It's dislike of the uneducated opinion. I'm sure you've never ever used live bait?


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## Toddbo34 (Jul 30, 2006)

SpoonColors said:


> lol....the problem may be the propeller.....turn it off before you cast.....lol


There won't be any casting out of my boat tonight. I don't give them a choice whether or not to bite. I just stab them in the back and drag them in the boat. This will be trip number 5 this week. I'll send you some pics of the bloodfest.


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## Dell (Sep 10, 2005)

I was asked to clarify this statement I made in a prior post

"The botom line is a small amount of the population is doing the largest amount of the damage, how do we stop that without also hurting the rest of the group."

The people I am talking about are the commercial guys who run over their 60 flounder limit, the recreational giggers who get their limit, put the igloo in the back of the truck and go out again. The two guys at Bolivar last year who put out 30 rods. The ones who keep each and every fish no matter the size. The guys on the rocks who think the 10 fish limit applies to their group (5 people fishing so its OK to take 50 fish) as opposed to each individual. Just cause you brought your girlfriend along or your 2 year old son, its not OK to keep 20 fish.


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## scubaru (Mar 28, 2005)

Dell said:


> I was asked to clarify this statement I made in a prior post
> 
> "The botom line is a small amount of the population is doing the largest amount of the damage, how do we stop that without also hurting the rest of the group."
> 
> The people I am talking about are the commercial guys who run over their 60 flounder limit, the recreational giggers who get their limit, put the igloo in the back of the truck and go out again. The two guys at Bolivar last year who put out 30 rods. The ones who keep each and every fish no matter the size. The guys on the rocks who think the 10 fish limit applies to their group (5 people fishing so its OK to take 50 fish) as opposed to each individual. Just cause you brought your girlfriend along or your 2 year old son, its not OK to keep 20 fish.


If the people in your last 2 scenarios all have licenses, they are welcome to keep the 50 and 20 fish they catch. The other scenarios are possible but no where near the norm. Keeping over your limit is already illegal, so what do you really think lowering the limit is gonna do for someone who disregards it anyway? It's gonna make it suck for everyone else, and create new poachers out of sportsmen who are now fed up with bs regulations. I say recs at 7, coms at 25, all other regulations the same, and buy back more shrimping licenses.


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## deke (Oct 5, 2004)

Dell said:


> If you just follow the money spent, I think gigging is in trouble, giggers do not spend gazillions of dollars on rods, reels, bait, line, every color in the rainbow of plastics, topwaters, slow sinkers, etc. There is no huge monetary impact if the recreational giggers take the hit.
> 
> I also think some of the recreational giggers are really semi-pros if they are out gigging 3 or 4 nights every week. After all you can't do catch and release on a fish with holes in its side.
> 
> The botom line is a small amount of the population is doing the largest amount of the damage, how do we stop that without also hurting the rest of the group.


Great post.

"but why should some of us give up doing something we enjoy so that you can keep catching fish without any changes? Seems pretty selfish and egocentric and it won't solve the problem. I went to the Scope meeting honestly thinking that shrimpers and commercial fisherman were the problem but they are no more part of the problem than the recreational fisherman. "

Well becuase what you , and I mean giggers not you personally are doing, is hurting the fish IMO and in alot of others opinions as well. And it seems to me that giggers are the ones that are refusing to budge on all this. And I don't really drink the TP&W coolaid all the time,lol. You said it was the shrimpers and commercial fisherman doing the damage, I agree but also throw in anyone gigging from a boat in that category. And I say this, again, based on my experience watching what happens in West Galv. bay, a very popular gigging destination based on once high population, depth, shoreline, and proximity to Houston. It has been depleted.

"I don't give them a choice whether or not to bite. I just stab them in the back and drag them in the boat"

I assume you were trying to be sarcastic, but you ended up making one our points for us. You stab, then check size, no CHOICE to throw them back if they are too small, and everyone ends up gigging undersized fish no matter what anyone says. And since very few wardens are at the ramps in the middle of the night and or at all the private bay houses many of these boats go home to, all fish get kept on too many occasions. Sad thing is I would rather you keep it and eat it than throw it back to die, but it should have never been stuck in the first place, because you can't tell a 13 1/2" form a 14".

Something needs to be done, and those of us against gigging from boats commercial and recreational, aren't going to give in to the few that do this, and those that do this aren't backing down either.. But all of us want shrimping stopped or slowed dramatically even more than it has been to date. So some where in between we will have to find a solution. Smaller limits, do away with commercial gigging all together, flounder as a game fish, season to protect the females, ect.. No matter what I am sure we all agree we need to do something before it gets worse.


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## Toddbo34 (Jul 30, 2006)

deke said:


> Great post.
> 
> "but why should some of us give up doing something we enjoy so that you can keep catching fish without any changes? Seems pretty selfish and egocentric and it won't solve the problem. I went to the Scope meeting honestly thinking that shrimpers and commercial fisherman were the problem but they are no more part of the problem than the recreational fisherman. "
> 
> ...


Just quoting your quote on the quote to the first quote...............I don't think I said I gig small fish and throw them back. You obviously assumed that or thought you read that! Do you know what happens when you assume!!! I can't remember the last time I even had to make a close call. It's easiest just to pass on the smaller fish and focus on the giants. You obviously have never gigged from a boat before. Closing the season from Oct-Dec would affect everyone Deke! Right now gigging and fishing for flounder are at its best. So closing the season for EVERYONE would accomplish the goal. Besides TPWD has already determined that gigging is not the issue so you can let it rest now. I think if you go back and read what was stated at the meeting you will see that it mostly has to do with the water temperatures that are affecting the flounder. Not BOAT GIGGERS!!!


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## Big Willy (Jun 20, 2007)

deke said:


> Well becuase what you , and I mean giggers not you personally are doing, is hurting the fish IMO and in alot of others opinions as well. And it seems to me that giggers are the ones that are refusing to budge on all this. And I don't really drink the TP&W coolaid all the time,lol. You said it was the shrimpers and commercial fisherman doing the damage, I agree but also throw in anyone gigging from a boat in that category. And I say this, again, based on my experience watching what happens in West Galv. bay, a very popular gigging destination based on once high population, depth, shoreline, and proximity to Houston. It has been depleted.


You seem to be refusing to admit that it is possible that recreational fishing pressure from ALL aspects is providing incredible pressure on flounder especially with the weather we have had since the early 1990's. Warmer winters have affected our population for years, and that is something none of us can fix. I am not refusing to budge on the issue that giggers are a problem. Heck, ANYONE that keeps a flounder is part of the problem. I certainly keep a lot less flounder than most people that gig or rod and reel fish for flounder. I am going to refuse to agree that gigging should be outlawed just as much as you are going to argue that rod and reel flounder fishing should not be outlawed. But, unlike you, I have a monetary investment in my gear and equipment for floundering. You may make a great salary every year and think that making a $6,000-$30,000+ boat obsolete is just chump change, but I don't make anywhere near enough to just "give in" to your desire to outlaw gigging. I wish I had that kind of disposable income, and maybe you do which is good for you. Share the wealth man, share the wealth. :cheers:

Besides, what does it matter that I gig a couple of flounder a few times a year? I probably get to go on 4-5 trips a year and have not gigged a limit of flounder in 10 years until 2 weeks ago; it was just one of those nights where everything went perfect. I probably average 3-4 fish per trip for the entire boat. Most of my gigging and recreational fishing takes place near Port Lavaca. I know plenty of people that fish almost every day of the week during the run and you can see some of them posting on this board about how many flounder they catch. You said you are not drinking from the TWPD "cool-aid" but that is the data we have available. Until you find a source that shows that giggers are the problem then your opinion won't actually fix the problem. Sorry but that is just the way it is. If you had a reasonable, data validated, explanation as to why you think that giggers are the problem then I would take you seriously, I really would, but just because you and others "feel" like giggers are the problem does not justify giggers loosing the ability to do something that they enjoy and have put a lot of time and money into. There are a whole lot more giggers in the middle coast then there are around Galveston. Most of the pressure on flounder in the Galveston area comes from recreational rod and reel fisherman, at least according to TPWD's data. Now if you don't want to believe their data then I really don't know how we can have a conversation about the issue. It is kind of like arguing that the world is flat. One person uses logic and data to argue their point and the other just believes that it works their way. It just doesn't "cut the mustard" in the scientific world to argue for something without data to back up your argument. 




deke said:


> Something needs to be done, and those of us against gigging from boats commercial and recreational, aren't going to give in to the few that do this, and those that do this aren't backing down either.. But all of us want shrimping stopped or slowed dramatically even more than it has been to date. So some where in between we will have to find a solution. Smaller limits, do away with commercial gigging all together, flounder as a game fish, season to protect the females, ect.. No matter what I am sure we all agree we need to do something before it gets worse.


On the other hand, you are right when you say that something needs to be done. (See, we don't disagree on everything.) I have a huge summary post of the TWPD Dickinson meeting that shows some of my proposals to helping boost the flounder population. I am for a lot more conservation efforts than most. And Deke, I am not trying to say that you do not have a valid point in saying that some giggers are probably get more than their fair share, but some recreational rod a reel fisherman do as well, especially during the run. I really think trying to separate us is not going to help the issue. I do both, rod and reel and gig, and have been doing more rod and reel flounder fishing since I moved to Galveston and I really enjoy it. I still like to go gigging and I hope that it is something that doesn't get taken away from us. There are no temporary regulation changes in my mind so I want our new regulations to be fair and based of the data available. If they show that giggers are what is decimating the population then maybe we should be outlawed but they just have not shown that to be the case.


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## DMC (Apr 2, 2006)

I think crabs should have gamefish status. That way you have to catch them with rod and reel, and since bait will be outlawed, only lures will do.


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## Toddbo34 (Jul 30, 2006)

DMC said:


> I think crabs should have gamefish status. That way you have to catch them with rod and reel, and since bait will be outlawed, only lures will do.


I'm with you DMC. I think we should outlaw plastics too though since they are littering up the ocean floor.


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