# January 3, 2014



## DA REEL DADDY (Jun 7, 2005)

*John 1:29-34*

_John the Baptist saw Jesus coming toward him and said,
â€œBehold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world.
He is the one of whom I said,
â€˜A man is coming after me who ranks ahead of me
because he existed before me.â€™
I did not know him,
but the reason why I came baptizing with water
was that he might be made known to Israel.â€
John testified further, saying,
â€œI saw the Spirit come down like a dove from the sky
and remain upon him.
I did not know him,
but the one who sent me to baptize with water told me,
â€˜On whomever you see the Spirit come down and remain,
he is the one who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.â€™
Now I have seen and testified that he is the Son of God.â€_


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

This is a great scripture. Matthew's account is very good also. (Matthew 3:13-17) Then Jesus came from Galâ€²iÂ·lee to the Jordan to John, in order to be baptized by him. 14â€¯But the latter tried to prevent him, saying: â€œI am the one needing to be baptized by you, and are you coming to me?â€ 15â€¯In reply Jesus said to him: â€œLet it be, this time, for in that way it is suitable for us to carry out all that is righteous.â€ Then he quit preventing him. 16â€¯After being baptized Jesus immediately came up from the water; and, look! the heavens were opened up, and he saw descending like a dove Godâ€™s spirit coming upon him. 17â€¯Look! Also, there was a voice from the heavens that said: â€œThis is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved.â€

Note that both accounts attest to the fact that Jesus is God's son, not God himself.


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## Fish&Chips (Jan 27, 2012)

DA REEL DADDY said:


> _but the one who sent me to baptize with water told me,_
> _â€˜On whomever you see the Spirit come down and remain,_
> _*HE* is the one who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.â€™_
> _Now I have seen and testified that he is the Son of God.â€_


Amen. It's very clear that Jesus is the son of God and that He is God also.


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## Seeker (Jul 6, 2009)

Shaggy, why not just say Jesus is Michael the Archangel?


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## atcfisherman (Oct 5, 2006)

Because the bible never says he his. Only the watchtower society leaders say he is and that can't be questioned. Very sad. 


In Christ Alone I Place My Trust


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## Seeker (Jul 6, 2009)

Uh Hugh ..


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## DA REEL DADDY (Jun 7, 2005)

The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

All God.

God created us and delivered messages in miracle and Prophetess.

He gave the Truth and showed us in Jesus.

and sends his power and inspiration upon us in his Holy Spirit.

All, The Trinity/God, did and has done for us.


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## atcfisherman (Oct 5, 2006)

DA REEL DADDY said:


> The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
> 
> All God.
> 
> ...


Yep. Sot on DA.

In Christ Alone I Place My Trust


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

Please show me in the scriptures the word trinity or triune. Show me where is says that Jesus is equal to God and the holy spirit, which God uses to accomplish His purposes, is equal to God. John 14:28 seems to indicate that is not the case. These are Jesus words, the last part of that scripture is pretty clear.

Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

- King James Bible "Authorized Version", Cambridge Edition


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## atcfisherman (Oct 5, 2006)

Shaggy,

Even if we could show you the "word," you would still denie it.


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

atcfisherman said:


> Shaggy,
> 
> Even if we could show you the "word," you would still denie it.


Then explain what the scripture says? It does not indicate to me that Jesus and Jehovah are the same or equal.


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## atcfisherman (Oct 5, 2006)

Shaggy,

John 1:1 is clear that the word was God. The JW organization added the letter "a". Studying the greek outside of what the JW interpretate clearly does not show the letter "a".

But, if we go along with the JW and say that there is the letter "a", then that means that Jesus was another god. Then tell me how many other god's are there?

Also Immanuel means, "God with us." It doesn't mean, "God's Son with us."


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## Seeker (Jul 6, 2009)

If the interest is there to knowing and understanding it then I would post it.. again.. but it's not. You just want to argue about it shaggy and I will not allow you to twist scripture like you do and have done.


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

Both of you want to criticize and attack. The scripture is very clear, Jesus own words.

Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

- King James Bible "Authorized Version", Cambridge Edition 

Nobody wants to explain it though, because you know that it does not support your belief. Should it not have been in the bible. I have explained John 1:1 many times. Jesus reflected his father, Jehovah, perfectly. That is how they were one. They thought exactly alike. 

Seeker, I post what the scriptures say, you cannot control it.


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## Fish&Chips (Jan 27, 2012)




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## Fish&Chips (Jan 27, 2012)

Jesus is God:

*Hebrews 1:8*
But to the Son _He says:_
â€œYour throne, O God, _is_ forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness _is_ the scepter of Your kingdom.

*Isaiah 9:6*
For unto us a Child is born,
Unto us a Son is given;
And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

*1 Timothy 3:16*
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

*Mark 10:17-18*
17 Now as He was going out on the road, one came running, knelt before Him, and asked Him, â€œGood Teacher, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?â€
18 So Jesus said to him, â€œWhy do you call Me good? No one _is_ good but One, _that is,_ God.


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

Can anybody explain what Jesus meant when he said "my Father is greater than I."

It means he (Jesus) is not equal or the same as his Father. I am just quoting the scriptures. You can cite all the scriptures you want. I have answered John 1:1, but nobody can or will explain John 14:28.


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## atcfisherman (Oct 5, 2006)

No you have not answered John 1:1. Your organization has added to the scriptures by adding "a" to it. John 1:1 clearly shows the deity of Jesus, but you add "a" to change the meaning. 


In Christ Alone I Place My Trust


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## Seeker (Jul 6, 2009)

shaggydog said:


> Can anybody explain what Jesus meant when he said "my Father is greater than I."
> 
> It means he (Jesus) is not equal or the same as his Father. I am just quoting the scriptures. You can cite all the scriptures you want. I have answered John 1:1, but nobody can or will explain John 14:28.


____________________________________________________________

So I am clear shaggy... *Here is what the bible teaches*.. about the Trinity *WITH SCRIPTURE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!* again.. and again... and again...

Evidence of God's tri-unity is seen throughout scripture. The Father (1 Peter 1:2), Son (John 1:1; 20:28), and Holy Spirit (Acts 5:3-4) are each called "GOD." Yet, they operate distinctly from one another, indicating person-hood.

I'm not sure how to make it more clear to you shaggy..

Given the emphatic declaration that there is only one true God (for example, Deut. 6:4, John 17:3), we conclude that this "one God" exists in three unique Persons. Many passages ascribe divine attributes to all three Persons or list the three together (as in the words used for baptism in Mathew 28:19).

Now.. you focus on the "subjection" of the Son to the will of the Father and Jesus' statement that the Father is "greater" than He (John 14:28).

YOUR ANSWER IS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! CAN I GET ANY MORE CLEAR THAN THIS???????????????????? shaggy.. with scripture shaggy...

*Phil. 2:5-11* explains how Christ subjected Himself in taking on human nature to redeem mankind. While Jesus was on earth, the Father was in a "greater" position than He, but position doesn't denote an inferior nature.

Now.. go ahead.. argue.. by the way why don't you put your little pamphlet down and think for yourself.. you know.. the "Should I believe in the Trinity?" pamphlet...


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

Never believed in the trinity before I became a witness. It never made sense, and now I know why, it is not scriptural. It really doesn't take much to figure that out. You are the follower. Oh, that's what I have always been taught, it must be right. Well, IT'S NOT. Believe what you want, I will believe what I know to be right.


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## Seeker (Jul 6, 2009)

Fair enough shaggy. I respect atheist for what they believe. If this is what you believe then who am I. 

One question for you now shaggy. What is your take on the good news? I wonder what the witness religions viewpoint on the gospel are.


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## atcfisherman (Oct 5, 2006)

Seeker,

There is no use arguing with Shaggy. If he can't give an answer, he just comes back with sayings like, "I speak the truth" or "y'all are being attackful" or something else along those lines. His pride is in the way. He gets upset and mad when confronted with the truth, yet if the truth was in him, he wouldn't get upset. 

And Shagggy, seeker gave proof of the trinity, yet you can't come up with an answer other than to dismiss it and thus because you and the JW dismiss it, then it is wrong. The one thing I can count on with shaggy is he will either 1) dance around a subject or 2) just plain refuse to answer. In another thread he said about the historical facts that I posted bout the watchtower society to be full of lies. Yet he will not say which is lies. He knows history speaks the truth. I can pull out old watchtower pamphlets from someone I know who used to be in the JW sect for well over 60 years and clearly show him where they have failed prophecies yet he would refuse to believe those. 


In Christ Alone I Place My Trust


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

Seeker said:


> Fair enough shaggy. I respect atheist for what they believe. If this is what you believe then who am I.
> 
> One question for you now shaggy. What is your take on the good news? I wonder what the witness religions viewpoint on the gospel are.


We use Jesus Christ as our model. Jesus was sent as a ransom for our sins. His two main objectives while he was on earth was 1) to sanctify and vindicate his Father's name, Jehovah. This was indicated in his "model" prayer. The first thing he prayed for was "our Father who art in heaven, Hallowed (or sanctified) be thy name." 2) he came to make know Jehovah's name and to make disciples to help make more disciples so that Jehovah's original purposes would be known.

Jehovah's original purpose was to have man subdue and fill the earth. Adam and Eve were created never to die. It is only because the disobeyed that we all die. It was man that came up with the idea that the reward for living a good life was going to heaven. God had His spirit creatures in heaven, man was created to live on the earth. The reward for living a good life is the resurrection. God does not change and His original purpose has not changed. The resurrection spoken of, for most, is a resurrection to earth as originally intended, a paradise. Do you agree that was God original plan?

It is through knowing Jesus and Jehovah, and cultivating a close personal relationship that there is a hope for salvation, provided by the ransom sacrifice. We muse know them intimately, well enough that we know what pleases and displeases them. Head knowledge is not enough, we must bring our lives into harmony with their will. I never found a religion that tried to truly live what they preach until I began to study with Jehovah's Witnesses. We are all imperfect, but as a group, we truly try to do the will of God. We take the command Jesus gave "to go and make disciples" very seriously. It is not optional, it is a command. Jesus did it and so if we are going to imitate him, we MUST do it.

The GOOD NEWS OF THE KINGDOM is now being published (preached) in over 236 lands. Our literature is published in over 600 languages. All of this is accomplished by volunteers. No one is paid. Where our work is banned, where we are severely persecuted, yes many of my spiritual brother and sisters are killed every year in the name of Jesus and Jehovah, the preaching does not stop. Our numbers continue to grow even where the work is banned. There is only one way these things can be accomplished, with Jehovah's spirit. It is very hard to explain on an internet site. Before 1992, I would have told you I would never be one of Jehovah's Witnesses. The more I looked into it and began to study, and yes I was very skeptical, but what I found could not be denied.

I am not easily duped and have a college degree, I am not ignorant. Some on this board have called us a cult. Nothing could be farther from the truth. We, as a group, truly try to live according to the scriptures. There will always be some that bring reproach upon Jehovah's name, but not too many. The congregation is kept clean. By the way I could leave the organization at any time. I choose not to because it is the truth.

Before I could never really been considered a religious man, simply because I had no interest in it because of the hypocrisy. I do not find that here.


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## Fish&Chips (Jan 27, 2012)

Nothing against you Shaggy, but the JW organization is not what it seems to be. There are thousands upon thousands of people with personal experiences that confirms that it is in fact a cult. In fact, just the way that some people go out of their way to defend the organization says a great deal. 

Also after so many times that the board members for the watchtower have changed the doctrine you would think that everybody would wake up to the fact that they could be believing the wrong thing, because tomorrow it might be changed again. I know you are going to say that these are all lies, but in fact they are not. 

Hypocrisy is everywhere - there is no perfect church. We are not perfect, but we strive to be by focusing on the Lord & Savior Jesus Christ. He is our example.

Again, I have nothing against you, but people need to know the truth and as far as I can see, both atcfisherman & seeker have posted only true statements on here. You have also posted a lot of truth, but mixed in with "Watchtower Truth." I really hope & pray that you will take a step back and really evaluate what you are involved in. God bless you.


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