# Mountain Lion sighting in Karnes County



## TX CHICKEN (Jun 4, 2004)

I have a deer lease in southern Karnes county and was wondering if anyone else hunts in this area ?? I spotted a mountain lion at our lease last week while archery hunting and after speaking with TPWD they seemed doubtful of my sighting. My father was at our lease this Sat a.m. and found tracks after a night of rain which were definitely from a mountain lion ( chasing a deer it appeared). Just curious if anyone who hunts this area has seen any mountain lions. The one I saw was only 60 yards away at a stock tank and was 70-80 lbs. I was told we should shoot it on sight by several locals--I really have no interest in doing so unless they can affect the deer herd. I have heard they kill 1 deer per week but they also have a large territory of 25+miles. What do y'all think?


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## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

Bordering Goliad county, it is quite possible you saw one as there have been sightings in Goliad county. With that range, I would not doubt you. I have even heard of black panther sightings near Goliad.


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## scanoochdc (May 29, 2004)

I grew up in Live Oak county, which is right next to Karnes. We spotted and heard about mountain lions for as long as I can remember. The local newspaper even published a picture of some bastard killing one in the area.


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## Bucksnort (Jun 29, 2004)

I've heard that they kill one deer per day.....I know some ranchers get paranoid about having them on the place...I see nothing wrong with taking a mountain lion... your correct, they have a tremendous home range so you probably won't see it again especially since they are mainly nocturnal. I have only seen two in the wild...I didn't have a chance to take them either time.....I will say this I think it would have made a fine addition to my trophy room and would have taken it in a heartbeat if I would have had the chance.

_"After eating an entire bull, a mountain lion felt so good he started roaring. He kept it up until a hunter came along and shot him...The moral: When you're full of bull, keep your mouth shut."_


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## TXPalerider (May 21, 2004)

I hunted one ranch that was in both Atascosia/Live Oak county. And another in Goliad county and we saw lions on both. Although, we saw them more regularly on the first ranch. I will tell you this, if they stay in the area for any length of time, you will cease to see deer until they leave. It is like flipping a light switch. One hunt the deer are there, the next they are gone. On the ranch in Atascosia county we would see 20-30 per hunt. When a lion was in the area, we would see maybe 4. And they would be nervous as HE!!.


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## Bret (May 21, 2004)

I have spotted a mountain lion twice on a friends place in Goliad county over by Charco. some of his hunters have seen it as well. They havent seen it in a couple of years. No reason to believe its not still hanging around. His place is on the SA river. 
They have also seen jagurundi(sp) on his place. Not too many of them around anymore, in Texas at least.


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## speckle-catcher (May 20, 2004)

we saw a jagurundi on the Callaghan Ranch (near Encinal) two years ago. Someone took a shot at it before we realized what it was.


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## Woodrow (Jun 17, 2004)

Home range can be much bigger than 25 sq miles. 

I wonder why TPWD was doubtful of your sighting? It's not like you saw a blur crossing a road on the run...

They can affect a deer herd, but I wouldn't say you "have to" shoot it. 

What did TPWD suggest?


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## TX CHICKEN (Jun 4, 2004)

It seemed to me as though he was doubtful of my sighting because he asked me to describe it several different times, maybe he was just being thorough. It is pretty hard to mistake it for anything else at 60 yds with a 2ft tail and weighing at least 70+lbs!!!
The TPWD biologist I spoke with said their range is so big that I might not see it again and seemed to lean towards not shooting it even though he did make it clear that they are not protected (I was aware of this) We have the healthiest deer population of all of the surrounding properties and this leads me to beleive he would stick around since the food source is plentiful. As mentioned before I would rather not shoot it unless it appears he is seriously affecting the deer population.
Thanks for all the feedback.


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## Back Country (Oct 14, 2004)

We have 1700ac. on San Antonio River between Kenedy and Runge. Never seen one, but seen some bobcats that were large. Sorry.


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## wiley199 (May 22, 2004)

I saw one last year in Victoria County, probably 80 pounds or so. It was stalking the deer in my feed pen.


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## bigd (Oct 25, 2004)

I hear the range is 75-120 miles depending on if it is male or female (males ranging further). Also heard they are devestating to the deer population but do not stay in the same area too long. I hunt in Bee/Refugio county and some people I hunt with saw one on two occasions in the same day, that was about 5 years ago, we haven't seen one since.


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## Bucksnort (Jun 29, 2004)

wiley199 said:


> I saw one last year in Victoria County, probably 80 pounds or so. It was stalking the deer in my feed pen.


What happenend next?


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## Dunc (May 29, 2004)

Ya know, all these sightings kinda make one want to pack a pistol into the deer stand during pre-dawn. Although from what I understand, people who have been attacked in Kalifornia, the only alert they had was the cat's fangs and claws ripping into them. Reconstructions of attacks often show the cats trailing the victims parallel to their path and ambushing when the guard is down. They go straight for the neck. That would probably ruin the morning hunt.


Editied to add: What Bucksnort said, where's the rest of the story.


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## Bucksnort (Jun 29, 2004)

A friend of mine was walking back to camp down the red dirt road in the pineywoods...something just didn't feel right...so he turned around only to discover he was being stalked by two big ol bobcats...he shot the first one and the second one kept coming for him...he shot that one two...got the pics to prove it.....if a bobcat will stalk you...you know a mountain lion will. My dad was going to fill one of his feeders during the summer and heard a cat scream right behind him.....after wetting himself he immediately got back in his truck and left. he waited later to fill the feeder...he swears it was a cougar.:ac550:


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## Cutter (Jun 23, 2004)

I dont know why, but TPWD and other fish and game officials in other states are always reluctant to agree that a cat exists in an area that does not normally contain cats.

I saw where a DFG official in Kentucky denied that Mountain Lions existed when a hunter even had a game cam photo of one on his property to prove that a cat existed.

What are the ramifications if Fish and Game officials declare that cats exist?

seems that they are anti-cats... I know that they probably arent, but that is just the feeling I have had over the last few years where cat sightings have been made where cats are not known to live.

[I used the term cat freely, but I am referring to Mountain Lions]


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## baldhunter (Oct 8, 2004)

*lions*

They are all over Texas.The first one I saw was in Wharton Co.Saw lots of tracks in Jackson and Lavaca Co.Saw a large one that was run over on highway 77 south of Victoria last year.I live in Nueces Co. and have seen them here just south of the city near the King Ranch.They are out there but they travel mostly at night.


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## Red3Fish (Jun 4, 2004)

*Puma*

A good friend of mine had 2200 acres N of Gonzales and was a farmer and rancher and out in the woods and fields every day. Over the 40 yrs he owned the place, he said he has seen 2 mountain lions in person, and tracks on many occasions. And the remains of 2 deer that were taken by them.

Later
R3F


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## Sea-Slug (May 28, 2004)

I saw one about 3 years ago near Junction.. Another one has been sighted on the same ranch since then. The one I saw was creeping up on a turkey roost right at dawn. Many years ago, one was killed right by my lease in Palo-Pinto County. I have seen tracks twice in Montague County. I think they are widespread over the entire State.


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## expressfish (Jun 8, 2004)

*Survey*

I believe Parks and Wildlife did a survey around the choke canyon / three rivers area w/ nightime cameras. They recorded 60 cats in that area.....I 'd have to research it again but that surpized the hell out of me .


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## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

Saw a dead on on the road shoulder near the Formosa plant heading towards Palacious on hwy 35.


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## Sean Hoffmann (May 24, 2004)

*Oh really?*

InfJ, what you saw was not a mountain lion. They do not exist in that part of the state. I repeat, what you saw was not a mountain lion. You saw nothing.


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## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

Here's one, I saw a horny toad lizard around Cotulla on a county road (red dirt road). Anyone still seeing these things around the state anywhere? They're almost extinct aren't they?


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## James Herman (Aug 7, 2004)

*Spooky*



Bucksnort said:


> A friend of mine was walking back to camp down the red dirt road in the pineywoods...something just didn't feel right...so he turned around only to discover he was being stalked by two big ol bobcats...he shot the first one and the second one kept coming for him...he shot that one two...got the pics to prove it.....if a bobcat will stalk you...you know a mountain lion will. My dad was going to fill one of his feeders during the summer and heard a cat scream right behind him.....after wetting himself he immediately got back in his truck and left. he waited later to fill the feeder...he swears it was a cougar.:ac550:


That is a sound that will make you tinkle yourself at a couple hundred yards.
If it were any closer it may cause a mud slide.
Scream is an acurate discription.


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## Bucksnort (Jun 29, 2004)

He had goose bumps on his arms when he was telling me the story


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## Redfishr (Jul 26, 2004)

Cutter said:


> I dont know why, but TPWD and other fish and game officials in other states are always reluctant to agree that a cat exists in an area that does not normally contain cats.
> 
> ] Because they're a government agency


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## TXPalerider (May 21, 2004)

InfamousJ said:


> Here's one, I saw a horny toad lizard around Cotulla on a county road (red dirt road). Anyone still seeing these things around the state anywhere? They're almost extinct aren't they?


We used to have them all over our back yard in Corpus when I was kid. Hadn't seen one that I can think of since I hunted in Zapata several years ago. Used to see them pretty frequentlt then.

What has cased their decline? Anyone know? Insecticides maybe?


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## Bucksnort (Jun 29, 2004)

I'm pretty sure there favorite food is ants...so it's not due to a loss of food source


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## Pablo (May 21, 2004)

I've only seen one, a half-grown one, about 15 years ago. My dad and I were driving on a dirt road and it ran down the road for a little bit before it ran into the brush. I had a doe hunter from Alvin hunting on my place a few years ago and he saw one. When I picked him up, he had a funny look on his face and he said he didn't shoot anything. "Why not?" "I was fixing to pull the trigger on a doe, when it looked back into the brush and then hauled *****. Next thing I know, there's a big cat strolling outta into the sendero. The hair was standing up on the back of my neck and I was scared it was gonna crawl up here and get me!" LMAO 

Funniest one was when a RE Broker friend was previewing a ranch, and he stopped to relieve himself. Right in the middle of the deed, he heard one scream. He said he 'bout zipped himself off trying to get back in the truck. 

J-there used to be quite a few of those horned toads around here. I saw one last week by a gate. Big fat one too.

Pablo


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## Fish-a-mon (May 21, 2004)

Seen two dead one in LLano County and Meridian County. the one in Meridian was huge 180+.


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## Cutter (Jun 23, 2004)

Saw this one at Lost Maples State Park a few summers ago. I dont frequent central/west Texas very often, but it does seem that there has been a decline.


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## Pablo (May 21, 2004)

Cutter, no offense, but that's not a horned toad. Tail is too long. Cool-looking lizard though.

Pablo


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## Wildman (May 21, 2004)

*Sightings in Robertson & Menard Counties*

Had a cousin see one last year on our place in Menard county then a few days later I saw a picture of one that was killed near London. My mom also saw one on a place we have near Lake Camp Creek in Robertson county. She got the whole treatment, heard it "scream" right at dark as she was getting out of the stand(scared the **** out of her) and then had it run across an opening chasing a small doe a couple hundred yards away. Needless to say she was pretty shook up and we had drop her off and pick her up at the door of her stand from then on. She also swears it was jet black. The funny thing is we all gave her a hard time about the story then an article came out in Texas Fish & Game called "The Myth of the Black Panther". It had listings of several black cat sightings in Texas and believe it or not one was on Lake Camp Creek Road. She never lived that one down.


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## bigreave (Aug 28, 2004)

a few years ago out by wheelock someone had an exoctic big cat get out and had people convinced it was a mountian lion. it took like 4or 5 months for it to be traped.


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## Cutter (Jun 23, 2004)

Pablo thanks for the correction, that is not a horned toad, it is called a Texas Spinney Lizard (_olivaceus_)..


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## Redfishr (Jul 26, 2004)

So why isn't anyone shooting at these cats?
I've never seen one while hunting . Is it legal to shoot?

R.R....


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## TX CHICKEN (Jun 4, 2004)

*They are legal to shoot...*

Redfishr
It is perfectly legal to shoot a mountain lion in Texas. I personally have no interest in shooting the one I saw mainly because I have hunted many years in S Texas and this was the first time I ever got a good look at one and it was an awesome sight. I hope he hangs around so others might get a chance to see such a beautiful animal in the wild. I spoke with several people and our local TPWD biologist and they all said that they have such a large territory and continue to move so it should have little or no impact on our deer herd. Most people that I know who have seen them had just glimpses and never even had a shot--they are extremely wary and mostly nocturnal.


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## pacontender (Jun 26, 2004)

From what I have been tol they kill more bucks than does. Bucks are more willing to stand their ground, and the antlers make it easier for the lions to grab them.

We saw a huge lion last year while sitting in a blind. All of the deer were nervous as hell, and none of the does stuck around for long. The year before that, a trapper trapped one on the ranch. I personally have seen 3 lions in Tilden.


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## TXPalerider (May 21, 2004)

pacontender said:


> From what I have been tol they kill more bucks than does. Bucks are more willing to stand their ground, and the antlers make it easier for the lions to grab them...............


Bucks are also more solitary animals than does for a several months out of the year. The does tend to run and groups so they have more eyes/ears to sense danger.


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## BoHonk445 (Oct 8, 2004)

How big were the tracks? We have a lease in DeWitt county and found some tracks the other day that look like a huge bobcat or a small lion. Prints were about as wide as my palm and I'm almost 300#. I don't think I would ever shoot one unless I thought he was considering me on his menu. Besides, I'd be very skeptical about them killing one deer a day. I've heard more about 1 deer a week.


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## Bucksnort (Jun 29, 2004)

got these pics in an email today...some of ya'll might have seen them


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## James Herman (Aug 7, 2004)

*Great Pics!!!!!*

That is just cool, I mean cool....


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## pacontender (Jun 26, 2004)

I always new they were good at killing coyotes and dogs, but Lions!!!!!!


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## Bucksnort (Jun 29, 2004)

yeah those dogs look like they are thinking "Ok, mule you got it?" "We'll just sit here till your done"


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## sightcast1 (May 25, 2004)

We've been hunting some 600+ acres in Peggy (Live Oak/Atascosa) for the last 8yrs. and we've spotted a few. Last year was the first time I got to see one. They are pretty swift and do not show themselves in the senderos for long. Someone spoke of a black panther as well. My Dad claims he spotted one a few years back as well as the landowner. No deer were around during the appearance.


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## TXPalerider (May 21, 2004)

If you were a deer would you be around? 

Seriously, we hunted Whitsett several years ago and had several sightings. My ex-wife even said she saw a black one. I've always thought it was just a dark color phase in the shadows.


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## TX CHICKEN (Jun 4, 2004)

*Track size*

The tracks had visible heal pads that measured about 3.5-4 inches around. They were about 5" long and were pretty deep. Our local TPWD biologist reassured me that one deer a week is the max a lion will consume and also that they rarely stay around for very long especially with the beginning of rifle season approaching.


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## Sean Hoffmann (May 24, 2004)

*Black Panther...fact or fiction?*

Interesting piece from Shannon Tompkins in the Houston Chronicle this week:

â€¢So where are the black panthers?

It seems as if every other deer hunter in Texas has seen a black panther or knows someone who has seen one of the legendary beasts.
Never mind that there never has been a single documented instance of a "black panther" (melanistic mountain lion, puma, cougar, whatever) in the United States. Not a single carcass. Not a hair. Never.

Still, many people (a lot, actually) honestly believe black panthers roam almost every corner of Texas.

OK.

In the decade or so since remote-sensing cameras have became available and affordable, Texas deer hunters have set tens of thousands of the infrared-triggered cameras along game trails, near feeders, over buck scrapes and just about everywhere else.

Also, it seems half the state's deer hunters carry video cameras to the blinds.

And while those cameras have captured images of a lot of strange animals (along with the occasional poacher and thief), not a single photo of a black panther has surfaced.

Go figure.


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## Bucksnort (Jun 29, 2004)

Sean....your bursting our bubble


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## jimk (May 28, 2004)

*Black Panther*

I grew up in Karnes County and as a kid, there were many stories of "black panthers" blamed for killing cattle in the 40's and 50's. The only cat I know of that might have an occasional all black color would be a jaguar. I believe the stories could have originated from a genuine sighting back then but I've never seen any proof of a black panther. There always seemed to be someone who knew someone who saw one...that kind of thing, but never any proof. I think the chupacabras and bigfoot probably scared them off!


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## Buck Master (Oct 19, 2004)

:cheers: That'll do mule, that'll do.


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## TX CHICKEN (Jun 4, 2004)

*More news... Is it a mountain lion?*

My father just called me from the deer lease and my cousin wounded a doe Thurs P.M. and couldn't find it. They went out Friday morning and found it about 200 yards from where it was shot and something had covered it with brush and eaten some of it. I have to think that this was also from a mountain lion because I have never seen this before. Has anyone ever heard if this? We also have lots of coyotes and they seemed to have left it alone so far. Just curious if anyone has ever heard of this happening?
Mike


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## Bucksnort (Jun 29, 2004)

lion or a bobcat


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## Sace (May 21, 2004)

*Droppings*

How 'bout droppings, anyone have an idea what Mountain Lion droppings look like. I've found droppings in the past two years...that look way to big to be Bobcat or Fox...this stuff almost looks human...if it hadn't been so fresh...and in an open area I would think it could be human..any ideas..?


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