# Newbie help



## Stumpgrinder1 (Jul 18, 2016)

Just easing into the scene. If you could own 5 flies for trout/ redfish what would they be ?


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## Ripin' Lips (Jul 3, 2012)

crack, kwan, gurgler, popper, EP Craft fur bait fish pattern. Everyone is going to have favorites for their area and style of fishing. Notice how I don't have any crab patterns? Others will chime in that crabs are must have for them. Its all about choice. If you are just starting out go to any local fly shop and ask for recommendations for trout and reds and then pick the colors that catch your eye


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## bonkers (Mar 2, 2016)

If you go to FTU on 45 the staff in the fly shop are knowledgeable on all the flies they sell. I went in once and the guy spent an hour telling me about the different flies he had and which ones worked the best and where and what they catch. I bought a few that I never saw to try out. Umpqua ties lots of their flies and they are uniform and very nice.


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

Clousers, SeaDucers, Deceivers, a popper, and a good carpet crab fly.


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## netboy (Dec 12, 2006)

My favorite for reds is a small crab fly I tie using a piece of real sponge and rubber legs.


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## karstopo (Jun 29, 2009)

Are you tying or buying? If buying, I'd get some clousers in Chartreuse, white, pink, maybe a couple of dark ones. Sizes 2-8. I like the Avalon Permit fly for redfish. Hook rides point up and beads add some noise for murky water. Like others said checking out local fly shops is a good idea. I like having a shrimp pattern. I tie my own, but I've seen several online that look good. Redfish crack is great, but seems to be hard to find online. Maybe some local shops have that.
I haven't fished a lot of floating flies or crabs, but lots of folks do.


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## Maven (May 23, 2017)

I found small plastic spoon in ruby color great for redfish. They are made by Tom Horby a fishing guide


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## Haynie21T (Jun 9, 2017)

Charteus and white Clousers, red and gold bend back, seaducer, shrimp patterns. Don't mess with the weedless flies, they will cost you fish.


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## southpaw (Feb 25, 2009)

Redfish aren't picky most of the time. Throw something that you can fish in the part of the water column they're feeding in and has some resemblance to what they're feeding on and you'll probably come tight. I like crack flies in different weight combos bc they can be presented as shrimp or baitfish and move a lot of water so it's easy for them to track down. I'm one for throwing crab patterns, especially when they're rooting around up in the grass or tailing. Weighted merkins or EP tarantula crabs are my usual go to. Clousers are great too, I mostly fish them in smaller sizes for clearer water. As for other good patterns redfish sliders work as a great attractor pattern, poppers and gurglers are fun when they're feeding on top or in schools and EP baitfish are good for winter time or when they're keying on mullet or menhaden.



Haynie21T said:


> Don't mess with the weedless flies, they will cost you fish.


You talking about weedguards? It'll cost you fish to not have them on your flies when there's floating grass or you come across fish tailing over grassy areas and you need to get a fly down to them. Just strip set like a man and you shouldn't have an issue.


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## Ripin' Lips (Jul 3, 2012)

southpaw said:


> Just strip set like a man and you shouldn't have an issue.


A little green to ya for that comment!


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## Ish (Oct 30, 2008)

use flies that look like the food the fish are feeding on in the area at the time you are fishing it.

and use colors that will offer good visibility to the fish, but are not too obnoxious to the point they spook the fish.

resist the urge to use big flies, and just as important as what fly to use, understand how and where in the water column to fish it.

more important than fly selection is setting yourself up in the right place at the right time. that is the single most important factor to angling success, and learning how to do that can take years. just ask bugem...





now that you've got the fly selection down i'd recommend not "easing into it."

that very often leads to minimal success, disinterest, and a return to gear chunking.

i'd suggest jumping all in... when you head out to fish, only take fly rods, don't take any crutches like a spinner or baitcaster. 

and only sight-fish... don't waste your newb time dredging flies or pulling a page out of horbey's playbook and trolling them (yes, you read that right).

do what bugem did and find someone who knows what they're doing and convince them to let you follow them around and learn.

you will undoubtedly have some very frustrating days for a while, but if you stick with it it will be incredibly rewarding as you will be forced to learn the tides and currents in your area, how the fish move, what they are feeding on, and how to cast quickly and accurately in order to be successful. 

if you're a winner your early failures will motivate you to get better and master the past-time quickly. it's not hard, you just have to put in a little bit of studying and practice time.

all in or g.t.f.o.!! 


good luck.


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

southpaw said:


> Redfish aren't picky most of the time. ...


This is very true.

In fact, years ago the commercial guys almost wiped out the reds in West Bay using only hooks "baited" with red ribbons. I used to run across their lines frequently back when it was legal for the commercial guys to set them...very telling what they used to successfully catch reds.

Don't overcomplicate it.


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## Ish (Oct 30, 2008)

Meadowlark said:


> This is very true.
> 
> In fact, years ago the commercial guys almost wiped out the reds in West Bay using only hooks "baited" with red ribbons. I used to run across their lines frequently back when it was legal for the commercial guys to set them...very telling what they used to successfully catch reds.
> 
> Don't overcomplicate it.


he's right, bay rats aren't hard to catch, they'll eat just about anything. but when you're sight fishing 30+ lb. bull fish on the surface along the texas coast they are extremely picky.

i can't tell you how many times i've seen them circle a fly, check it out, sniff it like a shark, and bolt.


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## RUFcaptain (Aug 12, 2011)

Ish said:


> and only sight-fish... don't waste your newb time dredging flies or pulling a page out of horbey's playbook and trolling them (yes, you read that right).


***** I've been fishing with Horbey for over 15 years, I have never seen him do anything like this. Blind casting sinking lines to bull reds off the jetty yes, but trolling flies no way.


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## southpaw (Feb 25, 2009)

Ish said:


> all in or g.t.f.o.!!


This is the best piece of advise in this thread.


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## bigdaddyd (Jun 18, 2017)

RUFcaptain said:


> ***** I've been fishing with Horbey for over 15 years, I have never seen him do anything like this. Blind casting sinking lines to bull reds off the jetty yes, but trolling flies no way.


I 2nd the comment by RUFcaptain. I've never seen Horbey TROLL flies in my 12 years fishing with him.


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## Bruce J (Jun 27, 2004)

I definitely agree with Ish's comment about taking only fly rods if you want to get serious about it. I've had a bunch of friends who say they want to fly fish, bring their rod on the boat, but then never use it because it's too windy, or something. With a little casting practice and time investment, you can fly fish in almost any wind. That doesn't mean you'll be blind casting into the wind, but then you don't do that with conventional gear either. You fish where you can.

But, I would not discount blind casting for a couple of reasons. Sure, sight casting is the very best, but I've had many fun days when the visibility sucked and spotting was very challenging. Tie on a small popper and have some fun. I've also caught most of my trout blind casting clousers, deceivers, etc. Still lots of fun. 

The ability to cast a longer line is particularly important when blind casting, so your double-haul work in the ballfield will pay off here. Think about this. If you can only cast 30 feet, then you'll only be able to retrieve the fly a few feet before you'll need to pick up and cast again. You'll probably make two or three false casts every time just to retrieve a fly a few feet, and that will wear out anyone's arm and patience very quickly. But if you can cast just 50 feet - certainly not a "long" cast by any measure - then for the same effort you get over 20 feet of space to fish the fly before picking up again. Then if you work up to 60 or 70 feet you can actually cover a lot of water with each cast pretty efficiently. I highly recommend using a stripping basket for this type of fishing if you're wading. It's so much easier to manage more shooting line this way and make longer casts.


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## rtoler (Apr 9, 2006)

FYI:  Do not get flies that look cool. Stick with the suggested flies aforementioned. I have a hard time throwing big flies with my 8wt that I thought would catch them, i.e., huge crab patterns.... Go to FTU on the Gulf Frwy and ask for Cary. He will take care of you.


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## Ish (Oct 30, 2008)

RUFcaptain said:


> ***** I've been fishing with Horbey for over 15 years, I have never seen him do anything like this. Blind casting sinking lines to bull reds off the jetty yes, but trolling flies no way.


huh, okay...

is it trolling when the fly line is stripped out to the backing, the sport is sitting on the ice chest in front of the console with the rod pointed to the back corner of the boat, and the motor is in gear and the boat drives by 10-15 yards from where you're floating and is dragging the line with a fly attached to it back and forth through the area where the fish are feeding and all of a sudden the line comes tight and the sport jumps up and has a bent rod despite never having cast it? (epic run-on, i know)

is it trolling then?

cuz bugem, gig, and i have seen that happen on several occasions and chuckled every time.

if horbey's sport can't cast past his shadow and horbey has to troll the fly because the sport travelled a long way and paid a bunch of money to "catch a red on fly", then that may be what horbey has to do and that's fine, but let's not pretend it's not trolling.


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## RUFcaptain (Aug 12, 2011)

^^^I have never seen anything like you describe, I think you guys have been following Tom around so long you're having hallucinations. :spineyes:


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## Ish (Oct 30, 2008)

RUFcaptain said:


> ^^^I have never seen anything like you describe, I think you guys have been following Tom around so long you're having hallucinations. :spineyes:


huh, okay...

is it "following him around" when we're sitting on anchor and he comes trolling by so close we can see what's going on?

_just cuz you hain't seen it dun't mean it din't happen._


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## Ish (Oct 30, 2008)

Bruce J said:


> I definitely agree with Ish's comment about taking only fly rods if you want to get serious about it. I've had a bunch of friends who say they want to fly fish, bring their rod on the boat, but then never use it because it's too windy, or something. With a little casting practice and time investment, you can fly fish in almost any wind. That doesn't mean you'll be blind casting into the wind, but then you don't do that with conventional gear either. You fish where you can.
> 
> But, I would not discount blind casting for a couple of reasons. Sure, sight casting is the very best, but I've had many fun days when the visibility sucked and spotting was very challenging. Tie on a small popper and have some fun. I've also caught most of my trout blind casting clousers, deceivers, etc. Still lots of fun.
> 
> The ability to cast a longer line is particularly important when blind casting, so your double-haul work in the ballfield will pay off here. Think about this. If you can only cast 30 feet, then you'll only be able to retrieve the fly a few feet before you'll need to pick up and cast again. You'll probably make two or three false casts every time just to retrieve a fly a few feet, and that will wear out anyone's arm and patience very quickly. But if you can cast just 50 feet - certainly not a "long" cast by any measure - then for the same effort you get over 20 feet of space to fish the fly before picking up again. Then if you work up to 60 or 70 feet you can actually cover a lot of water with each cast pretty efficiently. I highly recommend using a stripping basket for this type of fishing if you're wading. It's so much easier to manage more shooting line this way and make longer casts.


sorry, i should have been more specific...

bruce is right about blind casting and how it can help develop skills for distance. and there is a time and place for blind casting as he said. i've done it, i just don't have the patience to do it much, and for me if i'm gonna do that sort of fishing i'll just use gear as it's more efficient. but that's just me.

like he said though, it did help me learn how to throw it far.

the reason i said "don't waste your time" with it is because right now you are learning...the goal is to get you as proficient as possible, as quickly as possible.

blind casting (and trolling!) does nothing to help you develop the most needed skill of all in fly-chunking - being able to deliver the fly accurately, with only a pump or two, the first time. that's why i said don't mess with it right now...right now spend your time learning to put the fly right where you want it.

once you master that, the next step is learning how to reach out, and blind casting can definitely help you with that.

most of the scenarios you will encounter as a newb on the tx coast involve shots of 60' or less, where accuracy is more important than needing distance...hence my comments/advice.

good luck, buddy.


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## southpaw (Feb 25, 2009)

*Today's Debate*



Ish said:


> huh, okay...
> 
> is it trolling when the fly line is stripped out to the backing, the sport is sitting on the ice chest in front of the console with the rod pointed to the back corner of the boat, and the motor is in gear and the boat drives by 10-15 yards from where you're floating and is dragging the line with a fly attached to it back and forth through the area where the fish are feeding and all of a sudden the line comes tight and the sport jumps up and has a bent rod despite never having cast it? (epic run-on, i know)


What if you cast the line out first THEN start dragging it, is it trolling or are you "drifting" it like a trout bum 'cept you're supplying the "current"???


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## Ish (Oct 30, 2008)

southpaw said:


> What if you cast the line out first THEN start dragging it, is it trolling or are you "drifting" it like a trout bum 'cept you're supplying the "current"???


yes.


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## caddis (Jan 22, 2012)

Original Redfish Crack, chartruse and while clouser, pink and white clouser, something all white like a deceiver or bunny fly, something purple with chartruse tail or head/collar, something all chartruse can be as simple as a wolly bugger. Mix in some with bead chain eyes and some with lead eyes.


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## Permit Rat (May 13, 2014)

For those of you that are so concerned about whether or not an angler is trolling the fly or not, the SWFRA has said that any movement of the fly that is not imposed solely by the angler in the conventional manner of stripping in line [or reeling with the reel's handle] is illegal. A boat can be drifting but otherwise must be out of gear and in "neutral."

The lone exception to this, seems to be in the area of billfishing and the teasing of billfish. It is rather obvious that even though the command is given to put the boat in neutral, just before the fly is presented, that there is still forward motion to the boat, as the angler is stripping in line. However this has long been the accepted manner of teasing sails and marlin, and so the SWFRA (and now the IGFA) looks the other way.

Note that this is different from allowing the current to impose action to the fly, especially in the case of an anchored or drifting boat. This was called into question when our technique for king mackerel was developed in the Keys. The IGFA allowed that this was legal and rightfully so. After all, it has long been an accepted technique to cast across the current in a stream and then retrieve the fly back against the current. This technique can be exceptionally deadly, where a stream enters a lake and the fish hold in the deeper water, waiting for food to be washed down to them, from the stream.

The caveat to all this, is that most of us are not fishing for world records, so why be so meticulous in following the IGFA rules? I think the answer is that it is up to the individual. I follow the rules so closely, simply out of habit. When I was fishing and guiding in the Keys, (beginning now near 40 years ago) hardly a day on the water passed by, where a potential world record fish did not swim by the boat. It was simply a matter of being ready with the right tackle (line class or fly rod tippet strength) and being "IGFA legal," all the time.


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## Ish (Oct 30, 2008)

Permit Rat said:


> For those of you that are so concerned about whether or not an angler is trolling the fly or not, the SWFRA has said that any movement of the fly that is not imposed solely by the angler in the conventional manner of stripping in line [or reeling with the reel's handle] is illegal. A boat can be drifting but otherwise must be out of gear and in "neutral."
> 
> The lone exception to this, seems to be in the area of billfishing and the teasing of billfish. It is rather obvious that even though the command is given to put the boat in neutral, just before the fly is presented, that there is still forward motion to the boat, as the angler is stripping in line. However this has long been the accepted manner of teasing sails and marlin, and so the SWFRA (and now the IGFA) looks the other way.
> 
> ...


yaw i don't think anyone was actually "concerned" about it, it was more about making fun of doing it, but thanks for the info.

all that's way too complicated. i guess that's why i never got into the whole chasing records thing.


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## eastmaty (Jan 9, 2013)

I think you guys might of scared the newbie away from fly fishing lol !


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## Joe T (Dec 13, 2012)

eastmaty said:


> I think you guys might of scared the newbie away from fly fishing lol !


yep............only dead fish go with the flow


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## Ish (Oct 30, 2008)

eastmaty said:


> I think you guys might of scared the newbie away from fly fishing lol !


best he learns early on that pretending you're more special than the conventional angler and talking shiz on the internet is what what fly fishing is all about.


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## Ish (Oct 30, 2008)

Joe T said:


> ...only dead fish go with the flow


i like that!


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