# Redfish rod



## Fishsurfer

Looking to build a new saltwater fly rod for the Texas bay systems. It will be an 8 weight. I would like some input on rod blanks, guide sizes, guide types (snake vs single foot), ring material, guide spacing and number of pieces. My last fly rod build has been over 20 years ago and it still works fine but it seems a little soft in the backbone. I would prefer a little stiffer backbone and a somewhat soft tip, The blanks I have in mind are from Sage, TFO and Northfork Composites. Any new technology that you can think of or ideas that you may think would work will be appreciated. I thought about putting this in the Rod Building forum but I really want input from fly fishermen as well.


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## southpaw

Sage Xi3 blank. They can be found for cheap right now. I owned an Xi3 for a hot second when they first went on sale bc of the Salt, but a friend made me an offer I couldn't refuse so I sold it for a good profit. I did cast it quite a bit before I sold it and it's a sweet rod. Fast tip and plenty of backbone. This website had them but it looks like they sold out of 8wt blanks, they still have the complete rods though
http://www.mrfc.com/MadisonRiverShopping/SearchResult.aspx?CategoryID=4

As for guides and what not I'm not picky as long as the rod is balanced. 4 piece is nice for transport. My current redfish rod is a 3 piece, but it doesn't matter to me all that much.


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## dc1502

Awesome blank at half the cost and you won't find better service. http://www.rainshadowrodblanks.com/product-line/eternity2-fly-4-piece/


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## netboy

Here's a link to the guide spacing chart I use.
http://shofftac.ipower.com/store/chart1.html


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## Ish

what line are you planning on throwing on it? 

matching the right line to the rod is as important as picking out the pole...


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## Fishsurfer

I am thinking Cortland or Scientific. What do you think about line?


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## Worm Drowner

It's really more the taper of the line than the brand. Redfish lines tend to have shorter heads for quick shots closer in. The logic being that you need the rod to load in a hurry to fire a cast. Bonefish lines have a longer head and make it easier to carry more line for longer casts. I find the bonefish lines work better for me, especially if I am searching for fish and not sight casting. Your mileage may vary.....


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## Ish

I agree with what he ^ saidâ€¦

Taper is more important than brand, although over the years Iâ€™ve noticed a few differences among brands. Brand is about as important as color. More on that in a bit.

What are you gonna be using it for, mostly? Like he said, redfish tapers are great for quick, close-up shots, but they also work well for a quick single pump, double-hauled shot where you put the whole line out there. The downside is that they set down with a bit more disturbance than a longer, thinner bone taper, and therefore suck over sand in calm water.

i slightly disagree with him about bone tapers and "carrying" lots of line. bone tapers set down more gently than others, but carrying line spooks fish and can screw you up if you get the wrong gust of wind. why "carry" (and potentially spook your quarry) when you can just shoot the whole thing in a falsecast or two?

anyhow...

You mentioned a pole for the TX bay system...Are you chasing the stupid stocker fish (that the fools at TPWD and CCA have cursed us with) in 1-2â€™ of water (anything works), or are you chasing larger (read older and smarter) fish over sand in shallow, calm water (Iâ€™d use a bone taper or red taper with a really long leader)? 

the following may be more than you need, but it's a bit more to think about... (eventually you'll get sick of catching redfish and want to go do something else!)

Are you chunking very small aerodynamic flies at bones, perms, and tarpon in clear water (bone taper with a 13â€™ leader, or a clear-tip tarpon taper), or banging mangroves with large bulky flies in murkier water for snook and reds (red or tarpon taper).

Are you hunting large breeder snook on Atlantic beaches in the spring and early summer (calm = floating red or tarpon taper, choppy surf = a clear intermediate slime-line or a full-sink, wet-cel type line)?

Are you driving yourself nuts looking for ocean-going tarpon in deep water (full sink or shooting/sink tip line)? Granted you won't be doing that with an 8 wt, but...

See what I mean? Each of those types of lines will cast a bit differently on the same pole.

Ultimately the best thing you could do is cast several different rods, trying several different lines on each pole. Then you can match the best line/pole combo for you for each wt/application. Thatâ€™s easier said than done, but that would be ideal.

If you can give us some more idea of your primary application, perhaps we could make some suggestions, but remember that what I or anyone else likes means jack-all to others. We all prefer a different feel.


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## Ish

oh yeah, brands...

SA and Cortland are good, but I prefer Rio.

I've noticed that I like the feel and performance of the Rios better, but they fall apart after a 9-12 months of heavy use.

The SAs and Cortlands seem to last forever (I've still got the very first line I ever bought, an SA 8 bone taper from ~ 2000 or there abouts and i still use it from time to time). But early SA lines had a ton of memory and were a pain to get stretched straight when initially taken off the reel.

Like I said a second ago, what I like doesn't mean anything...it's what works for you. Go try them all. You may want to check out the Rio lines though.

If you can't find them locally, you may think about buying/ordering them, trying them out, and then selling the ones you don't like. Yeah, you may take a bit of a hit on each one, but at least you'll know what they're all like and have a better chance of finding what works best for you. You may even discover you like something you hadn't previously even thought to try.

Look at it this way, the money you lose (on selling the used ones you don't want) was spent on experience. Experience isn't cheap, but it's generally money well spent. 



good luck.


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## Ish

and oh yeah, are you building a left-handed or right-handed rod? 

cuz if you gonna do a right-handed rod, that changes everything...


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## bugchunker

Back to the topic at hand. Which rod to build? It's really all about the money. There are blanks from $50-$400. How much do you want to spend? Remembering that for the most part you get what you pay for. Personaly I look at the rod action first. I want a rod that fits you casting "STYLE" some people like them fast others slower. You need to find one that fits the way you cast. If you tend to muscle the rod a faster rod would be a better. If you are lazy and let the rod do the work a slower action would be better. I have both and tend to like the slightly slow action over the very fast. From your list of possibles I would rate them as the TFO "mangrove" and Sage "Xi3" as moderate fast, the Sage "TCX", "Method" as very fast. I don't have any experience with the Northfork composites. Another rod you may want to consider is the Orvis "Access" it's available in both mid(moderate) and tip(fast) action.
As for guides most of the rod manufactors list recommend guide sizes and spacing on their web site. I would follow them. I like the recoil guildes for my fly rods, they don't add that much cost and they don't rust. I use both single foot and snake guides and I see no down side to either.

Below are several of the saltwater rods that I have built and fish with.
1. The Sage TCX 8wt, a great rod if you are an expert. It requires perfect timing and some effert to get the most out of it.
2. the Orvis Access 10wt mid, for a heavy rod it does not require too much effert to make a good cast.
3. The Sage BassII 290gn(smallmouth) this is my favorite rod to fish. It's rated as a 10wt but cast like an 8. It has the action that fits my style. Note it has the sinlge foot guides.
Good luck, theres nothing better that catching fish on a rod you built, with a fly you tied.


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## Ish

bugchunker said:


> Back to the topic at hand. Which rod to build? It's really all about the money. There are blanks from $50-$400. How much do you want to spend?


yeah, choosing the right tool for the job that you're gonna invest ta bunch of time and money in totally is off-topic.

he's right, the single most important factor is how much it costs. it really is all about the money...

don't bother with performance or matching the tools to the job. make sure you invest a bunch of time and money into something you may not even like, or may not even work well. that's the way to go, fo sho.

_at least you'll stay "on topic"._


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## southpaw

Let's go back off topic for a second, cause I got a querstion



Ish said:


> What are you gonna be using it for, mostly? Like he said, redfish tapers are great for quick, close-up shots, but they also work well for a quick single pump, double-hauled shot where you put the whole line out there. The downside is that they set down with a bit more disturbance than a longer, thinner bone taper, and therefore suck over sand in calm water.


Can you elaborate a little more on how this plays into matching the line with the action of the rod? I get that a short bellied, redfish style taper would make short, up close shots easier than a more gradual taper with a fast action rod since it will help load the rod with less line out, but is there an optimal way to match certain tapers with certain rod actions? Are there disadvantages to matching certain tapers with certain rod actions? Is matching the line to the rod action more situational, depend on your casting style or other factors?

I've never put too much thought into it bc I just catch dumb stocker reds on used cigarette butts with a cain pole.


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## Ish

all great questions. i suppose that they have to be answered for yourself.

i never put much thought into it either when i first started fishing the tx coast. it wasnt till i moved to fl and started fishing for various species in many different types of environments, using different types of poles, lines, and combos thereof that i realized the differences. 

i noticed that i may love one rod with a particular line on it, but i hated the same rod with a different type of line on it. if an individual cant tell a difference when switching between lines on the same pole then they're lucky. i wish i couldnt tell a difference in performance...fishing life would be alot easier and a lot cheaper.

i'd wager, however, that if they used the same line a lot over a long period of time, then switched to a different type they'd be able to feel a difference.

i think it'd be foolish to say that with a certain pole/flex you should use a certain taper...everybody is different and has different tastes, they're fishing in different conditions, and are trying to accomplish different things. my point was only that lines can make a difference and if you are gonna invest the time into building a rod, you might consider trying that type of rod out first to see which lines work for you and which dont rather than just picking a rod (which you may end up not liking)and building it up.

to answer one of your questions, i think the optimal way to match them is to get out and cast a bunch of different ones till you find the one that works for you. it's kinda like dating... most people have to try out a bunch of different ones till they find the one that works for them.

if others have a different opinion, great. that's just how i see it after playing with lots of different stuff in different conditions.

point of my posts was to just give something to think about, not how to do it. kinda like teaching someone how to fish rather than just giving them a fish.

namsan?


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## Fishsurfer

I really don't care how much the blank will cost. I found out a long time ago that because something cost a lot does not mean it is the best. If it happens to cost a bunch, so be it. I like the NRX blank but it is not available. So I guess the next best thing would be a North Fork since it should be close to the same fiber matrix. That is a question for a particular person I will ask. I really am going to use it for Texas although it would be great for salmon in a Washington state or even a Tiera del Fuego river, both places can get pretty windy. The line would be a weight forward with the bonefish taper (Cortland) because that is what I am used to. I really don't see a need for a redfish taper, since I wasn't aware of them when I started fly fishing. I could see a need for a shooting taper on a second spool in a narrow part of a river or a bayou or channel where I have a short cast for a large fish. I always wanted to make an IMX blank rod but I waited too late, they quit making them for rod builders. Things have changed but I will most likely use a WF bonefish taper. I really appreciate all the advice from the seasoned flyfishers here. I have found that most people that take up flyfishing are some of the most experienced fishermen around and do it because the have gotten bored with conventional fishing. I would compare it to someone who hunts with a gun vs hunting with a bow. Most of the saltwater flies I use I tie myself with some of them being fairly large. I most likely will get a second spool of nine weight line. I am really just wanting a rod that will be lighter, cast accurate and cast farther (the holy trinity). I hope this helps.


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## Fishsurfer

bugchunker said:


> Back to the topic at hand. Which rod to build? It's really all about the money. There are blanks from $50-$400. How much do you want to spend? Remembering that for the most part you get what you pay for. Personaly I look at the rod action first. I want a rod that fits you casting "STYLE" some people like them fast others slower. You need to find one that fits the way you cast. If you tend to muscle the rod a faster rod would be a better. If you are lazy and let the rod do the work a slower action would be better. I have both and tend to like the slightly slow action over the very fast. From your list of possibles I would rate them as the TFO "mangrove" and Sage "Xi3" as moderate fast, the Sage "TCX", "Method" as very fast. I don't have any experience with the Northfork composites. Another rod you may want to consider is the Orvis "Access" it's available in both mid(moderate) and tip(fast) action.
> As for guides most of the rod manufactors list recommend guide sizes and spacing on their web site. I would follow them. I like the recoil guildes for my fly rods, they don't add that much cost and they don't rust. I use both single foot and snake guides and I see no down side to either.
> 
> Below are several of the saltwater rods that I have built and fish with.
> 1. The Sage TCX 8wt, a great rod if you are an expert. It requires perfect timing and some effert to get the most out of it.
> 2. the Orvis Access 10wt mid, for a heavy rod it does not require too much effert to make a good cast.
> 3. The Sage BassII 290gn(smallmouth) this is my favorite rod to fish. It's rated as a 10wt but cast like an 8. It has the action that fits my style. Note it has the sinlge foot guides.
> Good luck, theres nothing better that catching fish on a rod you built, with a fly you tied.


 I see you always build a full wells grip. Do you change your hand position for different types of cast? I also do that but the more I think about it I really don't change my position on the grip. Do you think another style or type of grip might better suit your casting / fishing style? You make a great rod and I admire your choice of components.


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## dc1502

Only two lines you really need in Texas ............Wulff " Burmuda Shorts" and "Wulff Burmuda lost tip" (intermediate). Those will cover the redfish ,trout and other inshore species. If you want to cast those lines come see us at the show next week , we will have them loaded on the new demo rods for Marshfly.


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## Ish

which of those two would work better for dredging tarpon in 6' of water out in the bay?


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## Tailshot

Ish said:


> which of those two would work better for dredging tarpon in 6' of water out in the bay?


 probably neither...better use some quickshooter novice taper for that!

excellent points on line choice btw. everyone is always gettin' jacked up on rod action and feel, not thinking about the fact that the same rod can feel completely different with different lines. a scott tidal 10 wt (in the wrong hands, mine) won't throw sharkwave but is perfect with ridge tropical.

yer frend,

stocker stalker


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## Joe T

there's no tarpon in the bay...........


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## bugchunker

Fishsurfer,
I use the full wells grips on my heavier rods >6wt. The lighter rod I use the reverse wells. With the heavier rods I need a solid grip and the full wells is more confortable with my fingers around it and I don't change it for different cast.. The lighter rod I tend to carry my index finger on top and the reverse wells works better for it. I don't like the way the straight grip or cigar grip feels.
As far as cheap verses expensive, I have built two cheap rods and both broke in the first month. They both broke about a foot above the handle for no apparent reason. The only premium rod that I have broken was an Orvis rod after about 10 years of hard service. This is why I would rather use the premium rods. (personal experience)
That's nice thing about custom, you can build what ever you like. Not what someone else says you are suppose to use.


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## dc1502

Ish said:


> which of those two would work better for dredging tarpon in 6' of water out in the bay?


The line that came on your Snoopy rod should be fine...........:rotfl:


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## Ish

yeap, that's what i thought.


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## caddis

One thing that is a negative to building your own rod is, if you break it, you have to rebuild the replacement part. On a factory rod, you get a new piece all ready to go.

Just a thought, I've done it both ways.


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## dc1502

caddis said:


> One thing that is a negative to building your own rod is, if you break it, you have to rebuild the replacement part. On a factory rod, you get a new piece all ready to go.
> 
> Just a thought, I've done it both ways.


And this is why the consumer is forced to pay $600-$800 for premium rods........


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## Fishsurfer

The tip on my two piece Sage 8wt I built broke and they sent me a replacement. I went back with single foot fly guides instead of the snakes that were originally on it. It does not cast as far as it did when it had snake guides. Has anyone experienced something similar. I did this over twenty years ago and now I would most likely use SIC or Torzite rings in this configuration: #16, #12, #10 and the rest #6. What does anyone think about this?


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## caddis

dc1502 said:


> And this is why the consumer is forced to pay $600-$800 for premium rods........


Depending on the rod, "yes". TFO about $250 with warranty, NRX, yeah.


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## jmhall87

I'll just mention the tfo axiom rods. They don't get talked about much for some reason but as far as a redfish rig goes can't be beaten for the price.


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