# Are you righteous?



## jimk (May 28, 2004)

Ecclesiastes 7:20 Indeed, there is no one on earth who is *righteous*,
no one who does what is right and never sins.

Romans 3:10 As it is written:â€œThere is no one *righteous*, not even one;

Matthew 5:20 For I tell you that unless your *righteousness* surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Romans 3:21 But now apart from the law the *righteousness of God* has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 *This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe.* There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by *Christ Jesus.*

Genesis 15:6 Abram believed the Lord, and he credited it to him as *righteousness. *(My notes:His faith was credited as righteousness.)

(Jeremiah prophesying about Jesus.)
Jeremiah 23:5 â€œ*The days are coming,â€ declares the Lord,*
â€œwhen I will raise up for David a *righteous* Branch,
a King who will reign wisely
and do what is just and right in the land.
6 In his days Judah will be saved
and Israel will live in safety.
This is the name by which he will be called:
*The Lord Our Righteous Savior.

**

*


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## DA REEL DADDY (Jun 7, 2005)

Thanks for the post. Very humbling.


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## Seeker (Jul 6, 2009)

Amen!


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## atcfisherman (Oct 5, 2006)

Excellent thread. These scriptures clear show that Jesus Christ wasn't just a man because no man can be perfect. Jesus, being part of God, could be the only one who could qualify to provide the perfect sacrifice, the perfect and righteous sacrifice for our sins. Praise be to the creator God who choose to have mercy and grace for us, especially me. 


In Christ Alone I Place My Trust


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

Adam was born a perfect man, yet made the choice to be disobedient. It took a perfect man to act as a ransom for Adam's sin. When Jesus was on earth he lived and died an obedient, perfect man. Had he been more than a perfect man, the ransom would have been null and void.


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## atcfisherman (Oct 5, 2006)

He had to be perfect and righteous like God because if he was just a mere man, it would not have covered our sins. What do you mean by if he was more that a perfect man it would have been null and void? Just asking. 


In Christ Alone I Place My Trust


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

Adam was a perfect man when he chose to disobey. The ransom had to be exactly equal to restore what Adam had lost. 1Timothy 2:5,6 . 5â€¯For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, 6â€¯who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all

That corresponding ransom had to be exact. A perfect human life was given for a perfect human life. Adam was created perfect, as was Jesus. Remember, Adam was created perfect, but that does not mean he was like God. Look at the angels and even Satan. They are superior to man, but are not like God. 

Look at the passage of scripture at Hebrews 2:5-9. 5â€¯For it is not to angels that he has subjected the inhabited earth to come, about which we are speaking. 6â€¯But in one place a certain witness said: â€œWhat is man that you keep him in mind, or a son of man that you take care of him? 7â€¯You made him a little lower than angels; you crowned him with glory and honor, and appointed him over the works of your hands. 8â€¯All things you subjected under his feet.â€ By subjecting all things to him, God left nothing that is not subject to him. Now, though, we do not yet see all things in subjection to him. 9â€¯But we do see Jesus, who was made a little lower than angels, now crowned with glory and honor for having suffered death, so that by Godâ€™s undeserved kindness he might taste death for everyone.
Notice that twice in those scriptures is says that Jesus was made a little lower than angels.


I am not trying to be argumentative, but trying to show why we believe what we believe the scriptures are saying. That is my understanding.


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## jimk (May 28, 2004)

Thus saith the* LORD*....I can only quote Jeremiah in giving the message that he received. When LORD is used(all upper case) in the Old Testament, it refers to YHWH, the Tetragrammaton that has been the source of the word "Jehovah."

Jeremiah's words, in scripture from God, call Jesus YHWH.

Jeremiah 23: 5 Behold, the days come, saith the *LORD* that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth. 6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, *The LORD Our Righteousness.*


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## atcfisherman (Oct 5, 2006)

Thanks for the reply Shaggy. While I can see where you might believe it that way, I must disagree respectfully. The KJ version of Hebrews says:

*Jesus Made Fully Human*

5 It is not to angels that he has subjected the world to come, about which we are speaking. 6 But there is a place where someone has testified:
â€œWhat is mankind that you are mindful of them,
a son of man that you care for him?
7 You made them a little lower than the angels;
you crowned them with glory and honor
8 and put everything under their feet.â€

In putting everything under them, God left nothing that is not subject to them. Yet at present we do not see everything subject to them. 9 But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

Jesus was made "lower" than the angles just for a little while. God had to subject him to that level for a couple of reasons. He had to be on the same leve with man in order for us to have an example to follow.

1) If he had kept his godly powers and status, then we could say we couldn't follow him because he wasn't like us.

2) He had to be humble to the point of being a human and giving up everything in order to save us.

Anyway, I gotta to get to a meeting so I'll get back with more thoughts. Thanks Shaggy for not attacking and I will do the same. We can discuss and if need be, sometimes disagree too.


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

Thank you for being respectful also. We should be able to discuss the scriptures without disrespecting each other. Some became very bad about that.

Fact is we will probably never agree on Jesus being God or equal to God in some triune. That is not even getting into the holy spirit being part of that also, which is something entirely different. I could never wrap my mind around the Trinity as a Methodist, just didn't seem reasonable to me. Now at least I understand why. I would like to pose this question on the interpretation of three scriptures. How do you interpret what they mean?

John 12:49
(John 12:49) For I have not spoken of my own initiative, but the Father who sent me has himself given me a commandment about what to say and what to speak.

This instruction was given to Jesus while he was still in the heavens.

John 14:28 (John 14:28) You heard that I said to you, â€˜I am going away and I am coming back to you.â€™ If you loved me, you would rejoice that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I am.

1Corinthians 11:3 (1 Corinthians 11:3) But I want you to know that the head of every man is the Christ; in turn, the head of a woman is the man; in turn, the head of the Christ is God.
Make sure your wife is aware of the last scripture. The headship principal.


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## Seeker (Jul 6, 2009)

Propitiation.. What is the definition?


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## Seeker (Jul 6, 2009)

How about "Atonement"?


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## atcfisherman (Oct 5, 2006)

Shaggy,

Those are good scriptures you have pointed out and difficult ones too. As I've said before, I do t fully understand the trinity. I'm a simple minded man who can only see what God opens my eyes to see. With that said, Jesus Christ is Gods only begotten son. Begotten means "to bring forth" or "born of." To me, that means Jesus Christ is part of God just like the Holy Spirit is part of God. 

In order for us to be saved, God needed to provide a sacrifice that would fulfill the payment for our sins. The bible says that no man is perfect and thus no man could be be sacrifice. It had to be a perfect holy unblemished sacrifice, which is why Jesus came. And I'm so thankful God provided Jesus because I needed him more than anything else ever. 

Again, I don't know all the answers. But I do know who holds the answers and He has provided His bible to help me. 


In Christ Alone I Place My Trust


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## DA REEL DADDY (Jun 7, 2005)

The Holy Spirit is God. God descends onto his Holy Spirit just like he sent himself onto us with Jesus for our sake.


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

atcfisherman said:


> Shaggy,
> 
> Those are good scriptures you have pointed out and difficult ones too. As I've said before, I do t fully understand the trinity. I'm a simple minded man who can only see what God opens my eyes to see. With that said, Jesus Christ is Gods only begotten son. Begotten means "to bring forth" or "born of." To me, that means Jesus Christ is part of God just like the Holy Spirit is part of God.
> 
> ...


You were born of your mother, but you are not your mother. Jesus was the first born, or the first thing ever created by Jehovah. Colossians 1:15 15â€¯He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; 
This is speaking of Jesus.

The holy spirit is God's active force. It does not act of it's own accord. God uses His holy spirit to do whatever He needs to do to accomplish His purposes. Genesis 1:2. It is a force, not a personage. Look at Ps 104:30 (Psalm 104:30) If you send out your spirit, they are created, And you renew the surface of the ground.
It says if you send out, talking about God. He must send it out. It cannot act of its own accord.

Look at 1Corinthians 2:12 (1 Corinthians 2:12) Now we received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit that is from God, so that we might know the things that have been kindly given us by God.
It says the spirit that is from God, not the spirit is God. Is from, to me indicates that God directs that spirit.

Just my thoughts.


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## Seeker (Jul 6, 2009)

It just wouldn't work without the Holy Spirit. Remember, it all takes faith. Without "Faith
" we have nothing to stand on. If you want it bad enough, you gotta have faith. Peter had the faith when he left the boat. When he started sinking.. He was focusing on self. Living on "faith" alone means you must die to oneself or, it just will not work. We humans are selfish, it's all about me.. Me. Me. Me.. My thoughts anyway.


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