# High and low fence



## peckerwood (Jun 9, 2012)

That's something that's been bothering me now for several years.Why all at once, if someone kills a nice deer on a regular low fence ranch,they feel like it's a big deal and need to apologize? I'm so old school,a high fence deer seems to me like a deer that was raised for someone to shoot for $5,000.00 during a 3 day hunt instead of a working man shooting a good one on a $1,000.00 year round lease.I'm not slamming anyone for what they pay or what they require a lease to be. I've had a few Bud lights,so that's my excuse.Reckon it's a generation gap between the way a 64 year old and 34 year old thinks?


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## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

I guess this will always be a debate. I think high fenced deer can be just as wild if the pasture is reasonably large and the deer have cover. 

Say I own 1,000 acres of good deer cover. Considering how far deer will roam, if you spend a lot on supplemental feeding and/or really trying to manage your place well, you could go broke supplying your neighbors with good bucks. In that case a high fence seems like a good investment.

If you have several thousand acres, or you have good neighbors who are really into management that agrees with yours, a low fence would probably suffice.

Just my opinion.


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## peckerwood (Jun 9, 2012)

The hunt may be still a great challenge,but you still raised the deer to your standards.I just don't get why folks kill a deer on a ranch surrounded but a 6 wire fence feel like they need to apologize for not hunting high fence,or their deer is pretty good,even if it wasn't shot behind a game fence. You can fish in the hatchery at Roaring Judy in Colorado and catch some dandies,but would it be as gratifying as catching them right out of the Taylor River.I'm not slamming or belittling anyone,just see a 2nd class of hunter developing,and don't like it.


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## Capt. Marcus Canales (Aug 25, 2005)

The way I look at it, if you have the time and spend that 1000 on a low fence place, go for it.. less pressure depending on size of said lease....so take that 1000, add in your fuel back and forth, corn for all of your feeders multiple times, some places require protein year round, add that in....you come to a trophy fee....some places have genetics, most dont....as for HF....some places are harder believe it or not, to hunt, due to pressure....some people don't have the time to give to a full on lease and want that buck of a lifetime. Both are a hunt and both are an experience none of us forget.

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## Capt. Marcus Canales (Aug 25, 2005)

Just to add, I have a low fence lease in Benevides texas, 3800 acres, I paid $3000 to shoot 3 bucks, me or a guest....so far, I haven't seen anything worth shooting in 2 years, after buying a blind, feeders corn and protein....

And to answer your question about raising deer to your standards, it's the same on a low fence place, most have a management plan in place to grow bigger deer....plain and simple. Our lease if he is 3 years old and an 8, shoot him because that's all he will be, there are still rules in place on most leases to practice management and growing your deer. The antler restrictions is a HUGE example of that and that is being forced on to you by the state.

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## Capt. Marcus Canales (Aug 25, 2005)

If you are seeing a 2nd class of hunter and don't like it, that is your pride on the line and your false judgments on others.

Just my .02

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## pacontender (Jun 26, 2004)

I can't remember a time where I've seen anyone apologizing for hunting low fence. I know I never have. 

I have no problem hunting either. We have both . I just prefer low fence. I got very lucky today with the deer I killed. The pasture where my blind is is fairly narrow and our neighbors would shoot him in a heartbeat.


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## Capt. Marcus Canales (Aug 25, 2005)

Who apologized, here?

Or is the bud light talking? LOL

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## Capt. Marcus Canales (Aug 25, 2005)

And maybe they apologized about it because of, and I hate to say it, people like yourself making that judgement about a 2nd class hunter.....just food for thought....

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## BretE (Jan 24, 2008)

If low fence is a 2nd class hunter then I'm gutter trash.....


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## pacontender (Jun 26, 2004)

Capt. Marcus Canales said:


> Who apologized, here?
> 
> Or is the bud light talking? LOL
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


If you are referring to me, I was responding to the OPs comment about him feeling people who hunt low fence apologize for it.


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## Capt. Marcus Canales (Aug 25, 2005)

pacontender said:


> If you are referring to me, I was responding to the OPs comment about him feeling people who hunt low fence apologize for it.


I'm not sure, was flipping deer steaks at the time....lol

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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

To be perfectly honest, I've heard a heck of a lot more people holding up their "low fence" status like it's some kind of badge of honor, and denigrating people hunting inside a high fence using the same verbiage generally used to classify "canned hunts"...


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## Capt. Marcus Canales (Aug 25, 2005)

dwilliams35 said:


> To be perfectly honest, I've heard a heck of a lot more people holding up their "low fence" status like it's some kind of badge of honor, and denigrating people hunting inside a high fence using the same verbiage generally used to classify "canned hunts"...


That was my next thought as well....

Another question would be, why would anyone apologize for either?

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## mrsh978 (Apr 24, 2006)

I guess I'm single wide trailer trash. It's the hunt and environment, not a sack of feed or a high fence operation hunt . The art of learning deer and playing the age old game of hunting is different than pimping deer.


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## Capt. Marcus Canales (Aug 25, 2005)

These debates could go on and on....kind of like trad bow vs compound vs xbow......croaker vs shrimp vs lures......LOL

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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

pacontender said:


> I can't remember a time where I've seen anyone apologizing for hunting low fence. I know I never have.
> 
> I have no problem hunting either. We have both . I just prefer low fence. I got very lucky today with the deer I killed. The pasture where my blind is is fairly narrow and our neighbors would shoot him in a heartbeat.


X2

Never heard or saw a hunter apologize for shooting an animal on low fence place.


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## elkhunter49 (Jun 7, 2004)

My biggest buck to date is 140" so I guess I'm no trophy hunter but I've taken some really big deer with my camera on both low and high fence ranchs. I know ranch and lease managers as well as owners of both who work their *** off for their wildlife and I'd never disparage either with many of the comments I see on this and other forums almost daily! People manage their own land and the wildlife on it for what they choose to get out of their property. I own 5.5 acers so who the hell am I to tell someone how to manage their land. Baker


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## Gearman (Nov 13, 2012)

The real question is why does it matter what someone does or doesn't do while they hunt deer. I have been on small places that were high fenced but I didn't have any interest on shooting any of the deer, this place was just under 200 acres and it wasn't my thing. I didn't trash the people that owned it or hunted on it. I saw some freaky deer so I guess that was kinda fun. I have hunted a high fence ranch that was 15,000 acre and it was a challenge and I respect the owner and his pure south texas deer were very nice deer. My son got a oppurtinity to hunt on Brett's place last Jan and it is a huge low fence place with pure south texas genetics. The place I hunt the most is 200 acres on the navasota river bottomllll so which one is right or wrong? All of them are, every owner of all the property's are doing what they want and what they can afford. Who gives a dang about what other people do with their money. Some people spend $500 to deer hunt and are happy with their 120 class buck and some people want a 200+ buck on a low fence place to get in to the book. Then there is the guy that has brought in northern white tail genes and wants these crazy deer that are kind hard to tell they are even deer and he puts them on his huge ranch that is high fenced. What does any of this have to do we me or anyone else on this board? Nothing really, let a person do what is within his means and keep you opinion to your self. In the end we all like hunting deer so let's try not to judge other people. Good luck to my fellow deer hunters and I hope you all get your throphy as that is what it is all about


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## saltaholic (Feb 19, 2005)

Small acreage high fence vs several thousand high fence is a completely different world. My buddy has a few thousand acres high fenced and there are plenty deer that are never seen and die of old age. I also know 2 guys with small <500 acre high fence ranches and they both know every single deer on the place like pets..... my place is low fence and we love the unknown every year but my biggest bucks have been from high fences ranches down south. I love to hunt so either is ok with me just not a fan of the pet deer small high fence places but that's just my opinion I i know it takes allot of work and money to grow big deer in any kind of fence


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## peckerwood (Jun 9, 2012)

I shouldn't have used the word apologize.I read several hunting boards, and it's gotten pretty common for a dude to post his picture of a good deer,and then say "it's a good one for a low fence ranch". If it's a buck your proud of,what difference does the fence make. I had no intention stirring you guys up.Not at all.


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## Capt. Marcus Canales (Aug 25, 2005)

Why do some feel the need to compare lf to hf......

I've hunted several lf places because that's all I can afford, we drive down a sendero.....deer are there.....step aside, we corn and as soon as we pass, they are there.......drive back, they step aside, come right back out.....

It's all relative....do what ya got to do, it's not a life changer, it's deer hunting. Be happy or stay home and watch tv.

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## Swampus (Sep 1, 2005)

Why can't we have Both!! (taco shell girl!)


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## pacontender (Jun 26, 2004)

peckerwood said:


> I shouldn't have used the word apologize.I read several hunting boards, and it's gotten pretty common for a dude to post his picture of a good deer,and then say "it's a good one for a low fence ranch". If it's a buck your proud of,what difference does the fence make. I had no intention stirring you guys up.Not at all.


I think the main thing we should all think about is that as hunters, we should all stick together. We have enough enemies fighting against us to end hunting. We don't need to give those people any more ammo than they already have.


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## 2Ws (Jun 28, 2016)

What about the NO FENCE guys??? I feel left out!!


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## bigfishtx (Jul 17, 2007)

saltaholic said:


> Small acreage high fence vs several thousand high fence is a completely different world. My buddy has a few thousand acres high fenced and there are plenty deer that are never seen and die of old age. I also know 2 guys with small <500 acre high fence ranches and they both know every single deer on the place like pets..... my place is low fence and we love the unknown every year but my biggest bucks have been from high fences ranches down south. I love to hunt so either is ok with me just not a fan of the pet deer small high fence places but that's just my opinion I i know it takes allot of work and money to grow big deer in any kind of fence


There are guys that hunt big low fence places that know every deer by name.


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## Gearman (Nov 13, 2012)

If you own a large low fence place and you know most every deer then all that tells me is that you invest a lot of time in managing your land and deer. There is only one way to keep deer on a low fence ranch and that is provide them want they want and on a big place it means lots and lots of money. For anything less then 500 acres it doesn't matter you can control the deer and they will travel for the most part. Heck our river bottom land gets new deer in every year because it is a travel route and everything it floods over the bank it push the deer out and then when it goes does we have new deer move in. Problem is our nights shoot anything that is legal which is out of our control.


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## Capt. Marcus Canales (Aug 25, 2005)

And just to say, I hope nobody takes my comments personal. I can have conversations with anyone in person and still call you a friend even if we disagree. 

Shoot straight and Merry Christmas! 

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## Gearman (Nov 13, 2012)

I do agree with the fact there are so many outside forces trying to make hunting look bad that as a group we should support our sport. I guess the only thing I just don't agree with is some of the places that raise deer in pens and release them on 50 acres and then charge someone to walk in a gate to shoot and deer. I do believe the deer should have a chance to use its instincts to make it a challenge


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## Capt. Marcus Canales (Aug 25, 2005)

Gearman said:


> I do agree with the fact there are so many outside forces trying to make hunting look bad that as a group we should support our sport. I guess the only thing I just don't agree with is some of the places that raise deer in pens and release them on 50 acres and then charge someone to walk in a gate to shoot and deer. I do believe the deer should have a chance to use its instincts to make it a challenge


This is agree with.....few bad apples spoil it for everyone.

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## HillCountry-Ford-Kawasaki (Feb 15, 2005)

If the hunt and the deer get your ticker going....who cares? 

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## Tarpon1 (Jul 25, 2016)

Capt. Marcus Canales said:


> And maybe they apologized about it because of, and I hate to say it, people like yourself making that judgement about a 2nd class hunter.....just food for thought....
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


He didn't say they were 2nd class hunters, he said a 2nd class of hunters.


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## Gearman (Nov 13, 2012)

I can honestly say one of the most intense hunt I ever went on was a place in llano I had leased and I wanted a deer from there with my bow. Was new to bow hunting and these deer were crazy spooky and I could never get within 75 yards. I finally got a doe at 30 yards and it took her well over an hour to come into the corn. Nothing to mount and a fence will never be mentioned, it was low fence by the way. That is what it is about and the size of the fence doesn't change the enjoyment I had hunting that doe. That's what hunting should be.


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## BuddyB16 (Jul 22, 2016)

I could be wrong but I think the original commenters point was in defending the lower resource hunter from feeling inferior to someone who has access to high fence deer.

He doesn't like seeing hunters who go out, and shoot a mature 130-140 class deer but then post it and say its good for "blank area." I have seen this and I have a big trophy hunter uncle who doesn't really hunt our no fence home place anymore because there isn't anything big enough. As if mature whitetail, of either sex for that matter, taken in a fair chase scenario isn't something to be proud of.

Now thicker skin would help that, but I think the more experienced hunting community needs to be careful and remember the excitement of that personal best 8 point, or that personal best over 25" inch trout and not forget to let the lucky hunter/fisher enjoy the moment without qualifying or overly rushing the fish back into the water.


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## uncle dave (Jul 27, 2008)

This is a dumb thread


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## BretE (Jan 24, 2008)

Get the flame throwers out, I can take it.......anytime I get shown a monster buck the first question I ask is, hi fence? For me, and this is just my old man opinion, hi fence takes the luster off a monster. Is it fair or right, probly not but that's just me. I don't begrudge anyone for hunting wherever they choose. You kill a 200" buck of a lifetime I'm happy as hell for you wherever it was. Myself, I prefer low fence.

Upon further review.....it seems most monsters I see from hi fence are guided hunts. Again, however you wanna do it is your business. I can better understand fencing a big ranch to keep deer out and enhance your management practices. I guess my main problem comes with pen raising and importing deer. At that point it just doesn't seem right to me. Doesn't make me right, simply my opinion. I'd rather see someone hunt however they choose rather than not hunt at all.....


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## ENB (Nov 12, 2013)

Who gives a **** either way. I have hunted both. On a high fence ranch the last 7 years and trying to kill one with a bow is just as hard on low fence. I have killed a good deer on low fence that would not be as great to me on a high fence. Just my personal opinion. Only real difference is if the high fence has introduced genetics. Which who give a **** if thats what you want to hunt also.


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## sabiki (Aug 21, 2005)

mrsh978 said:


> I guess I'm single wide trailer trash. It's the hunt and environment, not a sack of feed or a high fence operation hunt . The art of learning deer and playing the age old game of hunting is different than pimping deer.


this basically-- what I hate to see nowadays the most is that a lot of youth (12-16 years old) are going out and taking huge deer that daddy paid for...we are loosing the excitement, patience, and the work, knowledge that it used to require to take a deer of a lifetime... whether its high fence, low fence, protein, etc, etc, blah blah blah--- more and more this is becoming common-- write a check, hunt for 2 days and take a pic.


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## ccrocker1313 (Oct 23, 2005)

*We Hunt both it's a choice there's a lot of folks that don't have time to do the lease thing. So Day Hunt or Lease Hunt Just Hunt ...
*


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

As a kid I watched and heard other kids talk about them hunting with Dad. We couldnt afford anything like that. Didnt even have rifles. Dad did have a hand me down model 97 16 gage that was bought from a pawn shop. I knew when I got old enough to work and pay for hunting I was going to do that. Been doing it now for about 60 years both hi and lo fence.
Why would anyone really give a S#*t ? Started setting on a 2X4 nailed to a tree limb freezing my butt off and now a nice warm box blind. Guess thats a bad deal too ?? LOL


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## 98aggie77566 (Jul 7, 2009)

I have a personal problem with canned hunts....I think we all know what that means, though some may disagree on acreage, practice, etc....it's kinda like pornography (you can't define it but know it when you see it).

As for high fence or low fence, who cares.

You can have a really tough hunt on a high fence, spot and stalk.
You can shoot Fred the corn junkie on a low fence, with a 300 mag and 20x scope out of a heated deerstand with a feeder 60 yards away.

Unless you are shooting a recurve with flint tips...in your moccasins and buffalo briefs...let's not judge and just enjoy time in the woods wth friends and family.


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## saltaholic (Feb 19, 2005)

Indeed canned hunts belong in their own category


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## Sgrem (Oct 5, 2005)

I don't care how you hunt. Get it on....as long as you know what it is and accept it that way without trying to put on some perception of a great hunter that has done years of work to earn whatever a trophy is for you. Some people book a safari in South Africa and give the outfitter a wish list. You spend months preparing etc.....they drive a Trailer with all the animals on your wish list they just got at auction and drop em off in the back gate while they bring you in the front gate of a 400 acre kill box....

The safari we did was 380,000 acres no fences.....best hunting of my life.

Research and collect whatever is a trophy to you however you like. But don't try to twist the perception of what it is.....


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## Castaway2 (Aug 8, 2013)

To answer the OP's question.. I believe you get the " good 8, not bad for a low fence" comment from the actual hunter who killed it, because he knows that it is not a B&C buck, but it tickle his pickle when he stepped out so he shot it. Or he is trying to deter the negative comments from guys with the opportunity and cash to go and kill the big buck that is not leaving the 500 acres due to the high fence. Or he knows the quality capability of a high fence and knows that the buck he took isn't to that standard. Or maybe he is saying that because its a great deer he took with out any management practice in place and wanted to point that out. 
maybe he is stating that because the deer in the area aren't known for being that big and is proud it came from a non high fence place, when the area as alot of high fence ranches. 

the only way to know the answer is to ask the guy that posted it why he said that.

Myself.. I don think I mention hi or low fence unless it is just a giant then yes i might say low fence just so some know that not all deer that are monsters have to be high fenced, they do exist and some in areas you would not think of. 
to each his own 

and 36 yrs old here, please don't put me in that group of a 2nd class of hunter, I hunt for my family, my kills feed my family. I believe it is how you are raised hunting. I personally love seeing the little bucks as a kiddos first kill or a doe. let the excitement and the adrenaline become the addiction.


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## Sgrem (Oct 5, 2005)

I will say I have been on DIY public land bowhunting the Midwest .... show up with zero days scouting carrying a climber on my back and it was infinitely easier than most of the high fence ranches in South Texas I have hunted with long range rifles, dozens of game cameras, feeders and blinds set up everywhere. So don't fool yourself that high fence means a gimme trophy.

I have do have three pope and youngs up to 160+" shot on public land with my bow during rifle season. Very proud of those hard earned Deer. And I know guys that have 210+" Deer that will immediately say yes but I have never taken a real trophy like sgrem has.....pretty proud to be able to have the patience and skill to sharpen my ax and hunt that way.

It's the same in duck hunting. People spend all year preparing private ponds and attracting prime ducks.....then will poo poo the public duck hunting experience on our great Texas coast and inland lakes. I personally prefer the DIY challenge and figuring out the marsh year to year....but I will absolutely help clean the mud off the side by side to get back to those manicured lakes and comfy blinds when invited.

But I will happily get the gate on any high fence ranch and enjoy your hunt any way you like when invited.


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## Sgrem (Oct 5, 2005)

You will also see on TV guys hunting over a water hole (actually a water well THEY drilled and pumped)....they will say something like "fair chase is the only way....." 

That water hole is likely the only water for 100 miles or more. And check out some of the species for where they are....many are not native to that part of Africa. Just saying....dont give a perception that isn't real.

I think they are three kinds of sportsman:
- those that hunt/fish for sport.
- those that hunt/fish for meat.
-those that hunt/fish for trophys.

Whichever they are on any given day will dictate that days outdoor pursuit strategy.


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## Kothmann Ranch Whitetails (Mar 30, 2017)

Whitebassfisher said:


> I guess this will always be a debate. I think high fenced deer can be just as wild if the pasture is reasonably large and the deer have cover.
> 
> Say I own 1,000 acres of good deer cover. Considering how far deer will roam, if you spend a lot on supplemental feeding and/or really trying to manage your place well, you could go broke supplying your neighbors with good bucks. In that case a high fence seems like a good investment.
> 
> ...


Whitebassfisher: I agree completely, we got tired of our neighbors shooting our bucks so we high fenced. It stopped them from shooting almost every good buck we raised and allowed us to manage and feed the correct way. We are on a 1000 acres and we have grown some tremendous whitetail, the best part, is they are all wild. Any ways this topic has always been a debate and will continue to be, but just wanted to say; I like the way you think.

Happy hunting


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## Big Guns 1971 (Nov 7, 2013)

I see no difference high or low fence you still have to pass on that deer for it to get big and still have to decide when to shoot it. The real difference is that on a high fence you don't have your neighbor shooting young deer. I'm about tired of these $3500 dollar deer leases that are shot up or you pass up a deer and the neighbor shoots it. It's sickening to see a nubbing buck step onto the neighbors side of the fence and get shot. I high fenced my place and made sure there were no deer on it and introduced axis.


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## emed (Mar 16, 2015)

I had always hunted low fence growing up because i thought high fence was always the easy way out to kill a big deer. Then I had the chance to hunt a high fence 10,000 acre ranch that had introduced deer the first year there. After a couple of months the man running the ranch mowed down the pens because he was disgusted at the thought of raising deer this way. His son owned the ranch so he got a pass. I hunted there for a number of years sometimes with no luck. My biggest being a 155" that we hunted for two weeks total and the last being 4 days of checking cameras, stalking, glassing to find him 2 miles from where we had last gotten a glimpse of him. We passed on many deer due to age, but what I learned and think many have learned over the years is not shooting a 2 year old 10 point and letting them walk. For the last several years have hunted a 7500 acre high fenced ranch in Encinal, last year was a severely down year for us, the biggest deer shot was 150". We know there are some big deer there they just are hard to hunt and I think the only thing that high fence to low fence nowadays is it discourages people from coming into your pasture most of the time. Look at what Brett Holden does, he annually produces low fence 200" monsters and the guy gets bashed many times. He hasn't introduced genetics he just feeds and manages the amount of deer by age and numbers. Imagine if he had a totally controlled area where and introduced genetics out there. He'd probably have consistent 300" deer or bigger.


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## outtotrout09 (Apr 21, 2009)

High fence went up at our place because Houston lease hunters were putting blinds and feeders 50 yards off our fence. 

Our Neighbors had a high turn over rate for lease hunters and didn't care what they shot. Our feed bill was ranging 25K-40K per year and the straw that broke camels back was a 170"+ buck that we had been watching, during the rut he left our place and was harvested on the neighbors. We enjoyed being low fence and our heard was doing great for Edwards plateau standards. Just didn't make since for us to keep losing our trophy deer that we put our blood, sweat, tears, and MONEY into. At the end of the day we know what it takes to grow big deer and don't care about what everyone else thinks about what kind of fence you have.


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