# More Beach Closures



## TomCat

I don't fish this area and don't think many on this site do either but you guys need to know what's happening to our beaches. Their foot in in the door and we are going to loose our beaches like Flordia and the East coast have already. 

This is shamelessly stolen from another fishing reflector. 

I was stopped by the game warden this past weekend between Cedar Cut and the San Bernard River. He informed me that going forward there will be no more vehicle traffic allowed on the beach between what was Cedar Cut (now silted in) and the San Bernard River. His excuse was that they are trying to protect the Ridley Sea Turtles. When I brought up the fact that the sea turtles don't nest all year he simply said that they wanted to keep the beach undisturbed. This is as bunch of bull and I think we need to make our voices heard. They are slowly repealing the Open Beaches Act of Texas.


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## reeltimer

That is the impression that i came away with after watching Sate of the Gulf program on PBS.I think [email protected] has a projected date set when all beaches will be closed to vehicle traffic.Texas is not the reel nesting grounds.The powers that be took it upon themselves to sell us line of bull like the houston toad,the golden fried chicken warbler,the sallymander in san marcos.The next thing is save the cedar tree and people want be able to live in the Hill country.I might have emblished a little!lol


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## johnmyjohn

You have to remember it's for our own good, we don't know no better.


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## 535

does anybody have a source or link on this? a beach isn't closed just because somebody says a game warden said so


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## TomCat

Please tell me this was a misunderstanding.....
http://www.sargenttexas.com/board/viewt ... =5679#5679


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## Arlon

Anyone need want to buy some nice surf fishing reels??? )-:**


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## 535

TomCat said:


> Please tell me this was a misunderstanding.....
> http://www.sargenttexas.com/board/viewt ... =5679#5679


any way you can Copy & Paste from the forum? Can't get in without registering


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## TomCat

I was stopped by the game warden this past weekend between Cedar Cut and the San Bernard River. He informed me that going forward there will be no more vehicle traffic allowed on the beach between what was Cedar Cut (now silted in) and the San Bernard River. His excuse was that they are trying to protect the Ridley Sea Turtles. When I brought up the fact that the sea turtles don't nest all year he simply said that they wanted to keep the beach undisturbed. This is as bunch of bull and I think we need to make our voices heard. They are slowly repealing the Open Beaches Act of Texas.


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## 535

A beach isn't closed just because a game warden says so. I'm not saying the game warden might not have some inside info. I'd just like to see something more substantial than hearsay.

Tomcat, did a gamewarden say this to you or was this from the Sargeant forum?


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## SurfRunner

jc said:


> A beach isn't closed just because a game warden says so. I'm not saying the game warden might not have some inside info. I'd just like to see something more substantial than hearsay.
> 
> Tomcat, did a gamewarden say this to you or was this from the Sargeant forum?


That's right JC! There is a lot more to it than that. It sounds to me like they wanted it close just because they wanted it closed. I think the big question is....Who closed it?

This doesn't sound right.


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## TomCat

I sure hope you're right.

http://texassurffishing.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=622


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## 535

I don't think it could possibly have been closed without some of the TOBA folks posting up on 2cool


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## TomCat

Let's hope it's just a misunderstanding. But taking into consideration what's happening on PINS and other places I'm a bit concerned.


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## TomCat

I've got a call in to Tom Harvey with TP&W. Left a voice mail asking if the beach between Cedar Cut and the San Bernard River has been closed. Maybe he'll call back and we can get to the bottom of this soon.


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## cwc

Im haeded down there next week. Im going to drive down there and check it out.


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## TomCat

cwc said:


> Im haeded down there next week. Im going to drive down there and check it out.


That's a good idea. I can't imagine a Game Warden stationed down there to turn people away but you never know.


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## cwc

When i was in sargent last week game warden checked my liscense but that was all never said anything about the beach being closed past cedar cut. But then again I wasnt that far I was just past the pull in for tug boats and barges.


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## SurfRunner

That game warden has his secret spot down there and doesn't want anyone to know about it. It is the only piece of beach on the coast that does not have sargassum............j/k.....LOL!


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## TomCat

I spoke to Tom Harvey (nice guy) and he put me on to a local game warden. Local Warden said Game Wardens don't close beaches and he knows nothing about it. I'm trying to register with Sargent Texas.com so I can ask for clarification. If this turns out to be a hoax....I'll need to borrow a whoppin stick.


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## cwc

Amen. Tomcat.


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## tony7758

Gary that posted on Sargent Texas board is a friend of mine. He has been surf fishing down there for about 20 years. I have surf fished that area up to ceder cut with him for 4 or 5 years now. He always said when it (ceder cut) silted in the fishing was good farther up toward the San Bernard river. I guess that cut has opened and closed a few times over the years. I don't think he would post this unless true. I will have to call him tonight.


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## TomCat

I'm paranoid about these things and take rumors like this seriously. This may well be a false story or someone's attempt at being funny but I'm not laughing.


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## SurfRunner

I believe it. My concern is it is being closed by a handful that want to take the law in their own hands.

Back in the early nineties before somebody tried to close the section of beach near SLP on the west end of the island. There was a fence put up to block traffic. We know that was wrongfully done and that fence did not stay up for long.


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## tony7758

This is true. I just talked to my friend Gary that posted this story. He said there are now signs up. So anybody that thinks it is not true or I am just trying to be funny can go take a look!


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## 535

somebody that lives in the area might ought to go check it out... here's a post from a guy who was there last weekend and calls BS

http://texassurffishing.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=622&p=3031#p3031


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## reeltimer

jc said:


> somebody that lives in the area might ought to go check it out... here's a post from a guy who was there last weekend and calls BS
> 
> http://texassurffishing.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=622&p=3031#p3031


That's some good new if true.I don't want all of the texas coast to end up like Fla.


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## Krash

tony7758 said:


> This is true. I just talked to my friend Gary that posted this story. He said there are now signs up. So anybody that thinks it is not true or I am just trying to be funny can go take a look!


Okay....This just helped me make up my mind about where I'm going tomorrow. :evil: 
If there are signs,I'll bring back pictures of them.


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## 535

Krash apparently took this pic. this morning and had a friend post it on another forum


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## 535

which NWR is this???

http://www.fws.gov/refuges/refugelocatormaps/Texas.html


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## TomCat

tony7758 said:


> This is true. I just talked to my friend Gary that posted this story. He said there are now signs up. So anybody that thinks it is not true or I am just trying to be funny can go take a look!


Looks like I owe your friend Gary an apoligy. I was thinking all sorts of evil thoughts. I still am, but your buddy Gary isn't involved any more.


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## tony7758

TomCat, I am not happy myself. Gary has been telling me for years when Ceder Cut silts in the fishing will be good up near the San Bernard. I guess I will never know now. I do know Gary is good people.
Tony


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## Bwanablue

I figured the easiest way to an answer was to ask, so I did. Here's the reply:
"The portion of the beach between the old mouth of the San Bernard River and the what was once the Cedar lakes cut (now silted in) belongs to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service and has always been closed to motorized vehicles. We keep the Refuge beach closed to protect wildlife and wildlife habitat from being damaged or disturbed by motor vehicles. We have nesting sea turtles on that stretch of beach and wintering shorebirds that are listed as endangered species, plus many other species that rely on healthy, undisturbed beaches, dunes and saltmarsh habitats.

The closure is permanent, but hasn't been signed well in the past. This wasn't much of an issue as vehicles could not access the beach because of the cut.

I hope this answers your questions, but feel free to ask if you need more information.

Shane Kasson"


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## flatsfats

Oh bull biskits. I know people that fished there before the cut opened up. I've searched the net and only found one report of a nesting turtle in Sargent and that was 2 yrs ago. 

Why can't they just post signs @ the vegetation line and let people enjoy the beach? It seems to work everywhere else in Texas....except for Galvestoned.


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## jeffsfishin

*I have the answer*

Bring in some dredging equipment and lets open the cut again that will eliminate driving vehicles on the other side, and while they have the equipment there lets re-open Brown Cedar cut as well just for the heck of it.


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## 535

after getting 3 emails returned as undeliverable over the weekend I got this back yesterday morning from Lisa Whittle

_I will be out of the office starting 03/29/2011 and will not return until 04/04/2011._
_I will check my emails while away and respond as I can. Thanks._


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## Paleo Dave

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/NR/htm/NR.61.htm

_"(b) No person may display or cause to be displayed on or adjacent to any public beach any sign, marker, or warning, or make or cause to be made any written or oral communication which states that the public beach is private property or represent in any other manner that the public does not have the right of access to the public beach as guaranteed by this subchapter."_

The State Public Beaches Act is being loopholed by the Feds. The only justification they have is that the beach was not accessable after Hurricane Ike opened up Cedar Lake cut. That was temporary. Otherwise we have "retained a right by virtue of continuous right in the public since time immemorial" as prescribed in the Texas Open Beaches Act. I guess we can just act like sheep and let the Feds shaft us?


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## NightTrain

*Closing beaches...*

I made a post on here 3-4 years ago,warning about econuts sueing the National Park Service @ Cape Hatteras,NC,closing beaches for Piping Plover(a bird that is not even on the endangered list)....like 12 birds scratching in the sand.It has now been expanded to include turtles.I was basically told by JC that this scenario could never happen in Texas...they said the same up here in Carolina.Good luck with keeping your beaches open.Beware of the Southern Environmental Law Center folks.


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## NightTrain

The Cape Hatteras National Seashore Recreational Park was given to the government ,back in the day,with the guarantee that it would always be used as recreational area(ie..fishing,ORV use,etc.).They will slowly,in increments,take your beach if you don't fight back.Most thought it could never happen at Hatteras...it did.Don't be complacent as most were up here...:help:


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## 535

I definitely may have been wrong, time will tell. The area we are discussing in this thread is a small National Wildlife Refuge, not a Nat'l Park and I honestly don't know how the law will play out. I have a feeling the feds would not have a hard time making the argument that the interest of the U.S. (as a whole) perhaps outweighs the interest of a few citizens who want to drive this strip of beach. Hope I'm wrong, especially if the interest of the US boils down to a few birds.

I still believe that PINS is unique and very different from beaches on the East Coast and I think the comparison is apples/oranges. The nesting habitat for the plover was reduced from the eastern seaboard to a handful of beaches because of PRIVATE DEVELOPMENT *THE TRUE ENEMY. Their numbers continue to decline if I'm not mistaken and even the Park Service's experts and scientist's finding fell in line with the enviro's experts. 

Our issue is turtles and their numbers continue to improve. Plovers abandon nests when disturbed. More and more turtles come to Padre Island each year even though more and more visitors drive the beach... and still nobody has shown any data correlating vehicular traffic and "turtle death", much less showing ANY causal relationship

obiously I am an optimist and in the minority opinion but thats the way I see it...


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## NightTrain

*JC...*

Cape Hatteras is a unique situation,also...not a regular National Park,but, a RECREATIONAL park...created for just that.The plovers were protected by "the best available science"(BS),and the best parts of Hatteras and Ocracoke were shut down.The plovers have,over the last few years not flourished.These islands are not built up or have alot of private development.The turtles are in good numbers and no turtles or birds have been run over by vehicular use of the beaches.As they say around here..."It's not about the birds."It's a combo "get rich" scheme by environmental lawyers who found a sympathetic federal judge,and are funded by Audubon and Defenders of Wildlife.Again,one day you could fish the beaches,the next,they had signs and string,and patrols everywhere.Good luck,guys.


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## Steelersfan

All I know is, that sign doesn't look too sturdy...just sayin'....


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## gray gost

we used to take 4 wheelers out of poc take to island unload and run entire length of island until state took it over and made it into their private 43 mile long beach. now there are even roads on island they close for birds. you cannot walk or ride a bike on them so you do not disturb the birds. do not trust tpw


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## TomCat

Before we start bashing G.W. and friends stop and think about this for a minute. It's not totally their fault these strange things are happening. The outdoor world we know is under assault from special interest groups of all sorts. Be it the turtle protectors, bird protectors or a dung beetle protection group, they will do anything to protect their chosen little friends. They file lawsuits by the dozens and get backing from the ACLU and others so it's no skin off their noses. The State and Federal Fish and Game folks are forced to spend their budget money on lawyers to defend themselves in court. Most often it's easier to do as they are directed by these Green Peace spinoffs rather than fight it. We as a group don't file lawsuits or create as many problems as our counterparts so our rights are not defended as they should be. All we do is complain and GW doesn't want to hear it. Like it or not most often GW is under a court order to do some of the strange things he does.


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## 535

and like it or not we are just another special interest group... to developers that would shut down the beach and cover the coast in condos the surf fishermen are every bit as evil as the bird/turtle people are to us...


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## sharksurfer66

Sounds like we need to get a "beach cruise" together.. a little civil disobedience maybe..


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## Dennis M

Paleo Dave said:


> http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/NR/htm/NR.61.htm
> 
> _"(b) No person may display or cause to be displayed on or adjacent to any public beach any sign, marker, or warning, or make or cause to be made any written or oral communication which states that the public beach is private property or represent in any other manner that the public does not have the right of access to the public beach as guaranteed by this subchapter."_
> 
> The State Public Beaches Act is being loopholed by the Feds. The only justification they have is that the beach was not accessable after Hurricane Ike opened up Cedar Lake cut. That was temporary. Otherwise we have "retained a right by virtue of continuous right in the public since time immemorial" as prescribed in the Texas Open Beaches Act. I guess we can just act like sheep and let the Feds shaft us?


The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. - 10th Amendment The feds can kiss my ***. If it's the feds doing this.


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## Krash

jc said:


> somebody that lives in the area might ought to go check it out... here's a post from a guy who was there last weekend and calls BS
> 
> http://texassurffishing.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=622&p=3031#p3031


Looks like things have turned around in our favor.Check the link.........:bounce:
Seems they were supposed to put signs up to stay out of the dunes but someone took it on themselves to close the entire beach.


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## sharksurfer66

Nice!! Hope it stays open.


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## skooter2

I saw the sign a couple of weeks ago. It was from US fish and wildlife. Last week I asked a state game warden about it. He said it was supposed to keep vehicles out of the dunes.
The next day, the wife and I drove to mouth of the river. We passed the turtle biologists in a 4wd buggy. On the way back, we talked to them a while. They had dug up 2 nests and were moving them. They said the ***** and hogs are taking a toll. They said they were trying to shut down the beach but were having a "difficult time".


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## jig

Yes, shut down the beach. We don't want to disturb the hogs and ***** feeding on the turtle eggs. I have gotten to the point I can't find one government agency that deserves any respect.


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## 1fisher77316

here is the information as posted in one of the Sargent papers. It appears the Feds are trying to treat it as a part of the San Bernard Wildlife Refuge. I'm told they are putting signs up near the old Cedar Cut posting it as private property. I'll try and take a look when I'm down there Thursday/Friday. Till then-
Tight Lines
1fisher77316
Michael


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## skooter2

I drove down to the Bernard today. The sign is posted on the East side of where the cut last opened. It's half way between the surf and dune line. It's the same US wildlife sign that is posted behind the dunes at intervals all the way to the mouth of the river. The difference is beneath it is a sign that states "no unauthorized vehicles beyond this point".


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## TomCat

Well it ain't over yet. 
Looks like the turtle lovers aren't going down without a fight. I read on the other reflector that they have planted bollards across the beach to stop the traffic. It also appears GW is turning a blind eye to the situation.


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## tangled juglines

*yes....*

i was down there last friday and there are definitely 6 inch fence posts blocking access, signs on them, national wildlife refuge!


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## skooter2

That's seven miles of prime surf fishing cut out. I inquired with a couple of state game wardens the past few days and they don't even want to talk about it. 

Open Beaches Act my *****.....


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## TomCat

When I spoke to the Game Warden a few weeks back he said Game Wardens don't close beaches. So who does. Who's supplying the signs? Who dug the holes for the bollards? 
If one of us did that we'd go to jail.


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## sharksurfer66

I hopr you guys that r local stay on this!! Let us East Enders know how we can help!!


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## NightTrain

I told you guys...The nps up here(Hatteras)claimed ignorance at first...DOI is in on it...I promise you.Defenders of Wildlife,Southern Environmental Law Center,Audubon...it's a gradual thing that they start with...claim nothing is going on.NPS KNOWS!


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## fishingtwo

yep prime turtle habitat right there-just sayin


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## skooter2

Posts blocking access to 7 miles of good surf fishing.


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## saltaholic

unbelievable...........sux


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## Krash

From what I've heard this is not supposed to be happening. We'll see in the next few weeks.


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## surfcowboy

looks like some good camp fire wood


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## skooter2

It's about time some of our elected officials were brought into this.


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## Paleo Dave

skooter2 said:


> It's about time some of our elected officials were brought into this.


Absolutely Skooter,

I just sent the photo you posted to our County Judge along with a note asking what Matagorda County's position is on this.

Every Texan should be opposing this Federal land grab, let's get the word out ... it's no coincidence that they are down in the boon docks pulling this ... I wouldn't even know about this if it wasn't for 2cool.

Thanks,
Dave


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## skooter2

Dave
I'll be in contact with Ron Paul's office tomorrow. I think this is in Bonnen's district. The area posted is actually in Brazoria county. We all need to organize and get our message across.


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## NightTrain

NOW you guys are talkin'!Don't let them close all the beaches to ORV use like they've done here.WE can't change it now....YOU CAN!!!!


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## Bull Red Daddy

skooter2 said:


> Dave
> I'll be in contact with Ron Paul's office tomorrow. I think this is in Bonnen's district. The area posted is actually in Brazoria county. We all need to organize and get our message across.


I've been doing some investigation into this matter also. Sargent Beach is actually in District 29, represented by Randy Weber. Weber's office happens to be in Pearland though. During the era of the seawall construction, the construction company tried to keep us off the beach. I made a couple of calls to (then) State Rep Greg Laughlin's office & it was taken care of in short order. If it can't be resolved on the local level, there is a complement / complaint link on The General Land Office's web site. I'm not going to make a complaint there yet, but I will if it appears that it can't be resolved down here.


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## Bull Red Daddy

I'm also not sure if we shouldn't try to paste this whole thread over onto TTMB. I'm sure there are many 2cool members who don't read the surf fishing board, but would be really upset if they knew what our beloved federal government was up to.
I'm not computer savy enough to do or to even know if it can be done, but we need all the help that we can get to get this overturned. 
What do ya'll think ?


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## skooter2

I contacted Ron Paul's office today about the arbitrary closure of the beach and awaiting a reply. I'll be in touch with the state officials tomorrow.

I urge everyone to contact their state and fed reps on this matter, regardless of district. It's obvious the state game wardens don't have the cajones to even weigh in on this!


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## Chula Vista

*What's the latest?*

Has Ron Pauls office Responded?

Pat


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## skooter2

Haven't heard a peep. Ofcourse we're dealing with 2 government entities......


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## skooter2

It appears the Bernard Wildlife Refuge has lightened up a little. They're allowing vehicle traffic up to the high tide line. I wonder how long it will be before the mudhoggers screw this up?


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## Paleo Dave

skooter2 said:


> It appears the Bernard Wildlife Refuge has lightened up a little. They're allowing vehicle traffic up to the high tide line. I wonder how long it will be before the mudhoggers screw this up?


That's good news. :cheers:

Their high tide line language is still something to watch. The true area that they have to give us access to is "from the line of mean low tide to the line of vegetation bordering on the Gulf of Mexico."

Without the Texas Open Beaches Act we would have lost this beach entirely!


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## TomCat

I guess you'd better be gone when high tide rolls in.


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## TomCat

skooter2 said:


> They said they were trying to shut down the beach but were having a "difficult time".


And we haven't heard the last from the turtle protectors. 
They're behind all this BS and they'll be back.

T/C


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## skooter2

skooter2 said:


> I wonder how long it will be before the mudhoggers screw this up?


Didn't have to wait long. There was a kid on a 4 wheeler in the dunes today.

When I spoke with the turtle nazis a couple of weeks ago, it was hard to argue for beach access. In eye sight of our location was a garbage pile left in an abandoned campsite with a smoldering fire (burn ban on) and ruts all up in the dunes. Down the beach was a pile of old tires dumped out.

I don't think I impressed 'em with my turtle recipes.....:biggrin:


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## Bull Red Daddy

*Thanks Scooter2*

Hey Scooter2 -Thanks for the effort you put forth on this. Looks like the squeaky wheel got the grease ! Rest assured they didn't relent because they thought they were wrong.


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## skooter2

The hardest part there BRD is getting people to get involved contacting the various officials and agencies. TomCat's exactly right. The turtle nazis ain't given up on this.


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## RayAM2007

I agree with you. Maybe some one will put in some hotlinks for us and our complaints


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## skooter2

Chula Vista said:


> Has Ron Pauls office Responded?
> 
> Pat


Finally heard from Ron Paul's office. Said they were aware of the situation and working on it.


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## Chick-of-Sea

http://www.sanbernardriver.com/ try this site it is very good.


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