# HARC Tire Rules???



## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

What would you guys think about putting a tire rule into play for next year?

I’ve been watching tire choice very carefully for the past few years, and it is pretty clear that the people that are consistently the fastest and come out on top most races are going through multiple sets of new tires in a single race day.

We all know that a fresh, sticky tire can bring your lap times down very easily, and can easily bring you 0.5 – 2 seconds faster a lap………which is a big advantage when you add it up over the course of a heat or main. Not to mention, we’re talking about $100+ (retail) worth of tires in a single race day……..which is also hard for most of us to compete with.

What do you guys think about requiring everyone to pick a set of tires for the heats and mains and stick with it throughout the day? This would level the playing field quite a bit in my opinion.

As for policing the policy, it would be a combination of good-faith, and the fact that it will be painfully obvious if you see someone with a brand new set of shiny tires on their car, or multiple sets of tires out on their table.

Here’s what I’m thinking:
-you have all morning to play with tire choice and come up with what you think works best
-once the race starts, you can have no more than one set of tires on your bench/table at a time
-if track personnel catches you swapping tires, then your day is done

This is only a thought……it’s not something I’m putting into play for next year unless you guys are interested. I think it can be done relatively easily.

I REPEAT……..ONLY A THOUGHT AT THIS POINT………PLEASE COMMENT, BUT KEEP IT NEUTRAL.


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## tebone626 (Apr 25, 2010)

and would that rule be regulating?


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## Guffinator (Aug 27, 2005)

Rules are bad, but tire wars is what hurt touring cars 10 years ago. So I dunno...


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

I'm sorry......guess I didn't make it clear: the rule would be one set of tires for your race day.....beginning with your heats, and ending with your mains.

I agree........I don't like rules either. Back in the day they used to spec out motors and batteries.......end result was it was more about the driving. A guy who's been running the same set of tires all day can't compete with an equal driver who just strapped on a brand new $60 set of super soft tires for the main.


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

And as for policing, like I said.......you see someone with a fresh set of tires on, report them to the RD and their day will be over. Like I said, it will be pretty obvious that someone has brand new tread on their tires.......

And for the record, I've not found anyone to be intentionally cheating since I started organizing races nearly 5 years ago. We have a good group, and we continue to bring in good people and teach them our racing culture.......I trust the people I race with.


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## darrenwilliams (Apr 21, 2008)

I started this reply with, "I'm on the fence." After typing up the pros and cons, I am against it.

Pros:
1. It would be interesting
2. Could lower cost


Cons:
1. Gonna be very hard to police. Especially with some of us pitting in trailers.
2. Loosing the easiest and most affective tuning option for these cars.
2. Everyone pretty much needs a new set of tires for a race day. Changing tires every heat means you can run kinda worn tires all day long.
3. Racing would get frustrating to those that chose I-Beams early in the day when the track was smooth and clean and is rutted up and looks like the surface of the moon come mains.


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## darrenwilliams (Apr 21, 2008)

Courtney Vaughan said:


> And as for policing, like I said.......you see someone with a fresh set of tires on, report them to the RD and their day will be over. Like I said, it will be pretty obvious that someone has brand new tread on their tires.......
> 
> And for the record, I've not found anyone to be intentionally cheating since I started organizing races nearly 5 years ago. We have a good group, and we continue to bring in good people and teach them our racing culture.......I trust the people I race with.


The old Friday Night Under The Lights was full of people trying to cheat. We did get it ironed out but one guy never came back after I docked him for cheating.


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## mdwalsh (May 11, 2011)

putting a cap on 2 cell systems and 550 motor can max would make short course more competitive. at the moment 4x4 short course in HARC is being won by simply bolting in an 1/8th scale buggy system and 4 cell packs, while someone competing by ROAR rules has zero chance. you can turn down power in the esc, but you cant turn down current and voltage in the battery and those are what makes torque. i could never see myself running short course in the HARC series because of this.

Matt


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

Appreciate your response and can see your point, but let's keep it about tires.


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## skrub (Jan 5, 2011)

Could be done but as the day goes on track conditions change you would need atleast another set of tires. I know where not NASCAR where you change out tires left and right to get a better bit on the tra8kand true we all cant afford a new set each round. I think if we do make a rule maybe at least 2 sets would be good enough, for heats,then mains. For policen the tires figure away to mark the rims that only the RD has the tool or device to make the mark and date it. Just my opinion....


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## tebone626 (Apr 25, 2010)

mdwalsh said:


> putting a cap on 2 cell systems and 550 motor can max would make short course more competitive. at the moment 4x4 short course in HARC is being won by simply bolting in an 1/8th scale buggy system and 4 cell packs, while someone competing by ROAR rules has zero chance. you can turn down power in the esc, but you cant turn down current and voltage in the battery and those are what makes torque. i could never see myself running short course in the HARC series because of this.
> 
> Matt


to reply to your post. i won this past weekend in short course class. i do have a 2650 motor on my truck, but i do not run a four cell. i do run buggy tires as well. and when and if the rules change to run regular tires, i will. the tires really dont make that much of a difference. the only reason i run them, is because i have a bunch of buggy tires, and saves on my cost. as far as the roar rules, im not sure. i always run by the harc rules.


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## kstoracing (Oct 30, 2008)

My take,

Can't really regulate tire choice. IMO. Quals for me are for finding the right tire. By the third dual I have an idea. So, if u gonna regulate do the third and main. Meaning what u run your third mark it by the RD, sticker or check mark. That's the tire for the main. 

Or do this- no new tires for the main. All tires must have been raced during atleast one qual. 

I thought SC had a 2s requirement.


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

Keep the comments/ideas coming...........just not about SC lol. We've beat the SC horse to death!


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## mdwalsh (May 11, 2011)

kstoracing said:


> My take,
> 
> Can't really regulate tire choice. IMO. Quals for me are for finding the right tire. By the third dual I have an idea. So, if u gonna regulate do the third and main. Meaning what u run your third mark it by the RD, sticker or check mark. That's the tire for the main.
> 
> ...


i like this idea. as the cars get pulled off the track from each qualifier mark them with a sticker or sharpie, and any tire used in the qualifier can be used in the main, its a maximum of 3 sets of tires that are eligible and none of them are new for the main.

Matt


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## wily (Oct 14, 2005)

I think it will just get too complicated.


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## bmxracer (Jun 9, 2011)

As far as policing the tires, you (the HARC ppl) could mark the tires that would be used for the day. Maybe a fingernail polish or some other kind of mark that would be hard to reproduce by the racer (by changing the color at each event). Just an idea...

And yea...tires is an issue for every "tired" motorsport...nothing sucks more than getting beat because you could not afford new tires every time the car hit the track. I have never understood why us racers want to "give" money away to the tire manufactures when there is simply no "skill" involved in slapping a new set of soft tires every time the car touches the dirt. If everyone is one the same tires for the event then that takes tires out of the equation. And if a racer tears up a tire and needs a new ONE, then they should start at the rear of the field.


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

The point isn't BRAND NEW tires for any particular heat or main.......it's about running a single set of tires for the FULL race day.......from start of heats to end of main. That way EVERYONE is running on relatively equally worn tires for their heats and races. What this creates is two fold:

-A tire management strategy: If your strategy is to push hard in the main and you want soft tires for the main, you need to find the balance of lap times vs. tire wear during your heats so you'll have some tire left for the main. If your strategy is to qualify at the top so you don't have to push as hard in the main, then you can burn more tire during the heats to qualify better. If you're strategy is to have consistent tire performance and count on averaging/consistency to win the race, then you can choose a harder tire. And so one and so forth.

-Lower cost per race: Again, everyone is always looking for ways to make racing more affordable and level the playing field, and this is an option. 

I was watching the F1 race this weekend and they rely so heavily on tire strategy, and the FIA tries really hard to make the rules where it isn't the case that the people that spend the most money are the ones that tend to be at the top.


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## Gulf Coast RaceWay (Dec 12, 2006)

I think we should make a open class (for the serious racers anything goes) and a spec class ( 2s lipo and sc tires and rims) and it be the same at every track, and go from their. just my 2 cents.


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## Guffinator (Aug 27, 2005)

wily said:


> I think it will just get too complicated.





mdwalsh said:


> i like this idea. as the cars get pulled off the track from each qualifier mark them with a sticker or sharpie, and any tire used in the qualifier can be used in the main, its a maximum of 3 sets of tires that are eligible and none of them are new for the main.
> 
> Matt


Willy nailed it


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## darrenwilliams (Apr 21, 2008)

I usually have about 25 sets of tires in my trailer and it's not getting me out of the b-main. There is more holding us back from the win than $60 worth of tires.


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## darrenwilliams (Apr 21, 2008)

Oh ya and as a race director, I don't want to have anything to do with looking at tires or marking tires in any way. It is hard enough getting everyone to the booth once to register. We have enough to do keeping the race moving as it is.


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## bmxracer (Jun 9, 2011)

What kills racing most racing classes is no adherence to the original rules or idea of the class. Like buggy tires on SCT...if the SCT where meant to have buggy wheels on them, then they would have come from the manufactures that way. From my experience, anytime a good lower cost class comes up, then a select few ppl eventually slowing start changing the rules to fit their budget and equipment (like the guy that says I'm just using the buggy tires because I already have them). Then the next thing you know it the class no longer is a low cost affordable class and rules are opened up to the few that have the means to run any class they want.


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## Gulf Coast RaceWay (Dec 12, 2006)

Agreed Darren.


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## Gary (May 21, 2004)

I'd vote no. Saturday at M&M the track conditions were changing and I had to try different tires.


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## cjtamu (Sep 22, 2004)

wily said:


> I think it will just get too complicated.


Yep, just too many variables CV. Track conditions change so sometimes what works early doesn't work late. What about guys that spin a hub, etc? Tire costs bite, we all know that, but IMO it's just part of racing.


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## bmxracer (Jun 9, 2011)

HARC could test this tire idea out on a low budget class like SCT...simple to check...and it would maintain the "lower cost alternative" class racing.


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## tebone626 (Apr 25, 2010)

darrenwilliams said:


> I usually have about 25 sets of tires in my trailer and it's not getting me out of the b-main. There is more holding us back from the win than $60 worth of tires.


i agree with you Darren. i need more driving skills, no matter what tires im on.


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## Doc Hepner (Oct 9, 2009)

It's been awhile since I have been to a HARC Race mostly due to my work schedule but I thought I would chime in on this one.
Since I have started racing some 28 years plus ago, there have always been those that would do anything possible to win. There are also those who have more money to throw at this hobby than others and no matter what you say, better cars/ESC's/Motors/Batteries certainly helps when it comes to who wins the race. Driving skill does contribute a lot to winning as well. But if you were to place a Blackfoot and a SC10 on the track with two drivers that have very close driving skills, there is no question as to who would win the race.
That is why different classes were instituted in order to keep a more even playing field. I agree with the gentlemen who stated that people were putting 1/8 scale ESC's and 4S batteries in what was intended to be a 1/10 scale vehicle. You are taking the 1/10 scale vehicle to a different level than what it was intended. We used to call this back in the day the OPEN class no matter if it was buggy, stadium truck, etc. We also had novice, stock, modified classes for buggy, stadium truck, etc. and as long as you were running tires made for the vehicle, we never had restriction on how many you could run in a given race day. Like I said before, some people had the money to buy better/more stuff than others. The key is to keep the classes fair in the context the vehicles were made (example: 1/8 scale or 1/10 scale) whether novice, stock, modified, or open.
Since the conceprtion of RC Car Racing, racers have always sought for equipment that would give them the edge to reaching that finish line first. You just need to keep the classes in context to create that more even playing field and tire choice/how many tires you could run in a given race day was never scrutinized as long as they were made for that particular vehicle. Eventually it all comes down to the skill of the driver anyway.
In my opinion, taking the ability of changing tires to either a different pattern, compound, or even a fresh set is taking away from the tune-ability of the vehicle not to mention it would be very difficult to marshall. I would concentrate more on your classes (i.e. novice, stock, modified, open) whether it was Short Course or 1/8 scale buggy. This would better facilitate the more even playing field.
I know a lot of you mock the ROAR Rules but they were established for this reason. To keep the more even playing field. In the past, ROAR Rules have served us well and in my opinion, something that this hobby has lost which has been to its detriment.
That is my 2 cents worth and I'll shut up now!!!


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## kstoracing (Oct 30, 2008)

Ha ha, a single set the whole race day seems like a different type of race altogether. Seems more like a endurance race. Tire management seems like a main issue not a race day issue. If that's the case, Id want a new set every race day.


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

It was just an idea guys.......no worries. And if the track people aren't interested in it, then it is a mute point. Just a thought..........I'm really stretching for new ideas for next year to keep things fresh for us, and I thought a single tire rule might bring a new challenge.

As for the Short Course stuff, this battle has been raging for 3-4 years now. And until the manufactures really settle in and the SC evolves to where it will stay for a while, then everyone's points are only valid until the next thing comes along. We've happily included SC trucks from the get go, and they step it up a notch every 6 months or so. Until that settles down, there's no point in throwing a chit-load of rules at it because you'll just have to constantly change them. For instance, look at the timeline for SC trucks:

1) Slash 2wd comes out, and we try to make a spec class
2) Everyone bails on the spec class and throws brushless and expensive tires on them......now we're to the next level
3) Other manufactures start to release race-grade 2wd SC chassis.......now we're to the next level
4) Slash 4wd comes out.......next level
5) 1/8 wheel adapters, motor mounts, esc's, etc come out for the Slash 4wd.....next level
6) Other manufactures start to release race-grade 4wd SC's......next level
7) The same 1/8 stuff that came out for the slash 4wd, now comes out for cars like the Hyper 10SC, etc......next level
8) Losi, Durango, and Associated release trucks that have many 1/8 components, weigh as much as an 1/8 buggy, have big-bore shocks, and are really nothing more than scaled down 1/8 buggies......again, next level

And this is all over a period of BARELY 3 years.....maybe less!

Point is, for SC, it's life-cycle is still evolving. Throwing rules at it is pointless because something new will come out in 6 months or less and the rules will have to be altered! Not to mention, the 2S batteries and 1/10 based brushless motors that we were using in SC's to begin with 3-4 years ago, maybe barely have 60% of the power that the current crop of SC related stuff does! So throw that into the mix and you get even more variables!

All you SC guys just hang in there.......development WILL taper off soon, and things will be more clear and we can get closer to ROAR rules.


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## Jasoncb (Jun 25, 2010)

Well if you did that than you would not be able to water the track at all once the race starts. As a wet track requires different tire 99% of the time.


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## Doc Hepner (Oct 9, 2009)

Hey CV,

I know I said I would shut up now but I have a question that has nothing to do with the tire situation.
Do you see any of the SCB's out there yet? I have one and it is a blast to drive!


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

Man I haven't see the first one! 

Post up a picture of yours!


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## Jasoncb (Jun 25, 2010)

Courtney Vaughan said:


> It was just an idea guys.......no worries. And if the track people aren't interested in it, then it is a mute point. Just a thought..........I'm really stretching for new ideas for next year to keep things fresh for us, and I thought a single tire rule might bring a new challenge.
> 
> As for the Short Course stuff, this battle has been raging for 3-4 years now. And until the manufactures really settle in and the SC evolves to where it will stay for a while, then everyone's points are only valid until the next thing comes along. We've happily included SC trucks from the get go, and they step it up a notch every 6 months or so. Until that settles down, there's no point in throwing a chit-load of rules at it because you'll just have to constantly change them. For instance, look at the timeline for SC trucks:
> 
> ...


 I don't see how it evolving. I have been racing for over a year now and its still the same. Yea there are 17mm hex adapters but that is an optional part (don't buy it.) SCT trucks are not being sold with them already on.

The SCT needs to be 550 can motor max on 2s with SCT tires. You can run any box stock kit that comes out (ae,losi,jammin,traxxas, and etc.) No single vehicle really has any advantage on the other. As for the scaled downed 1/8th scale, losi is the only manufacture that does that. AE is a entirely different design that no one has seen and durango is a bigger 10th scale 4wd buggy. But with that being said if you lined up a slash and a losi with identical motor esc combo in a race the slash can compete.

Example in Dallas - Smiley with jammin, Mike B. with slash running 2s 550 can motor with sct tires. Both are very identical in skill and slash won.

Everyone should watch the SC showdown in dallas cause it will prove that rules in SCT will make the class FAIR and more competitive.


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## Ducatibilt (Jul 8, 2010)

Thinking out loud here, but maybe just add another class and call it spec tire.

Just pick some cheap tire in one compound that most anyone can afford and have access to and that's the tire you run in that class at all the tracks. Sure it's not going to hook up great at all the tracks but at least it will be the same for everyone.

You buy one new set of spec tires per race day, when you sign in the race director marks your tires and thats the set you get for that day. If you finish top 3-5 in the heats or main then you get checked to make sure your running your original tires. You could even do it so the guy that finishes behind you has to be the one to check your tires after your heat so the race director isn't trying to chase everyone down to check.

You can run the electric and nitro together and just make it 10-13 minute mains, heck you could even let the sc trucks and the truggies run in this class but they have to run the spec buggy tire. 

For the guys that are just getting started they won't have to go out and buy 10 different types of tires in 3 different compounds just to be competitive at a certain track and from heat to heat. The guys that are already racing can buy one new set of tires and have another class to race.

I used to race karts and we used to do something like this just for a fun class to race.


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## Earl_Sparky (Jan 12, 2008)

There are several issues here. Having everyone use only one set of tires for the whole event creates the issue of, who makes the best guess for what the track will be like in the main. That is not making the racing any better. So really what you are talking about is a spec tire class. The race track would need to select a spec tire that typically works well on their track. This does make the racing better. That is why IFMAR uses a spec hand-out tire in the 1/10 scale off-road worlds. The spec tire would need to be something like PL M3 revolver with PL hard blue inserts. However, it is really not feasible for local races. One problem with spec tires is, some people are sponsored by a tire company and only have discounts on that brand. I really like the idea though….
I think we should start out trying to having “ROAR stock” classes and “Open” no rule classes for those who do not have the right equipment. That way everyone can race what they currently have…


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## ProBroAndy (May 2, 2011)

i dont care, i run the same 4 tires and wheels at every track.. race or practice. i wont change em' out till they are bald lol. thats me though.


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## kstoracing (Oct 30, 2008)

That seems like a special race. Spec tire race!!


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## jasonwipf (Feb 23, 2009)

I don't like stock classes. Spec tire races are a nice alternative. I did like how aka did a spec tire race where the tire was built into the race fee at what would be a discounted rate.


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## Z-Man. (Mar 20, 2011)

Say your racing and your tires bald out and you can no longer run them? What if you strip out the hubs on the rim? What if the tire comes unglued and the foam starts coming out of the tires during a race? What will you do if any of this happens and you cant change tires, because you will be disqualified?


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## Ducatibilt (Jul 8, 2010)

Z-Man. said:


> Say your racing and your tires bald out and you can no longer run them? What if you strip out the hubs on the rim? What if the tire comes unglued and the foam starts coming out of the tires during a race? What will you do if any of this happens and you cant change tires, because you will be disqualified?


My thought would be to allow each driver to mark 5 tires before the race that way you have a spare if your have a problem with one. As far as wearing them out before the main that's en-TIRE-ly on the driver and how hard he wants to push it early. ( Did you see what I just did there! ) :biggrin:

My thoughts on the spec tire selection would be to go with a pretty hard compound just so they won't wear completely out before the mains. Sure it's going to be like driving on rocks but that's part of the challenge and fun here. If you need to run a super sticky tire and change them between heats then that's what the other classes are for.

As far as drivers that have a tire sponsor, a spec tire class really isn't designed for them any way. It's designed for the other guy that has to buy his own tires just to try to keep up with the guy that has unlimited tires or pocketbook. It's more for the guys that are just getting started or don't have the big tire budget. Heck maybe some of these guys with a tire deal can talk their tire sponsor into helping a class like this get going.

If I'm taking this down the wrong path from which the original post was intended just let me know.


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## Z-Man. (Mar 20, 2011)

Ducatibilt said:


> My thought would be to allow each driver to mark 5 tires before the race that way you have a spare if your have a problem with one. As far as wearing them out before the main that's en-TIRE-ly on the driver and how hard he wants to push it early. ( Did you see what I just did there! ) :biggrin:
> 
> My thoughts on the spec tire selection would be to go with a pretty hard compound just so they won't wear completely out before the mains. Sure it's going to be like driving on rocks but that's part of the challenge and fun here. If you need to run a super sticky tire and change them between heats then that's what the other classes are for.
> 
> ...


No your on the right path. I understand the idea on an extra tire, but it doesn't make sense to buy a set and a half of tires. It makes more sense to buy 2 sets of tires, and if one is shot and cant be run anymore, just put a full set of different tires on the car.


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## bmxracer (Jun 9, 2011)

If I were writing the tire rule, I would allow only tires that have been damaged (not worn) to be replaced and the competitor would have to start at the rear of the field if they to change any tire. 

4x4 SCT 1:10 would be the perfect class to implement this rule since this seems to be the most popular beginner class.


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## Ducatibilt (Jul 8, 2010)

Z-Man. said:


> No your on the right path. I understand the idea on an extra tire, but it doesn't make sense to buy a set and a half of tires. It makes more sense to buy 2 sets of tires, and if one is shot and cant be run anymore, just put a full set of different tires on the car.


I'm just going off of what I have experience with which was racing karts. You were allowed to check in 5 tires then put them in parc ferme, the fifth tire could only to be used as a spare at the race directors discretion, a puncture or wheel failure were about the only reasons you were allowed to use it.

If your allowed to change the entire set at the beginning of the main because of just one tire being damaged or coming unglued in your last heat you now have an unfair advantage over the other drivers who are still on their worn tires. Now everyone is back to having to buy 2 sets of tires per race to keep up with the guy that keeps "accidentally" damaging his at the end of his last heat race.

You get five tires you better figure out a way to make them last or learn to glue better! :rotfl:


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## kstoracing (Oct 30, 2008)

I think it could be a nice class to try. You could run a regular class and spec on the same day. As for extra tires for replacement, buy another set. First comes with entry the rest are extra.

Learn to glue better....LOL.


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

Looks like this this idea has very underwhelming support LOL. 

Turned out to be an interesting discussion though!

I AM however looking at getting closer to ROAR rules next year for the SC class, so if you're running SC or plan to run SC with us next year you'll want to attend the meeting in December for the 2012 season.


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## Gary (May 21, 2004)

Guffinator said:


> Rules are bad, but tire wars is what hurt touring cars 10 years ago. So I dunno...


Long time ago when Performance Raceway had the on-road track outside, Jorge held a Texas Winter championship and you remember those boys from Austin, Atomic Ron and them. They would run a new set of tires _EVERY RUN! _$40 a pop, every practice, every qualifier and all 3 A mains. I had two sets of tires, one for practice and one for racing. lol But I had batteries that even Atomic Ron couldn't get, so that weekend it was more of a battery war than a tire war and I'll take the tire war over the battery war any day!

For you newer guys and I mean those who have never heard of Houston RC, Racing is much cheaper now days than it was back then thanks to technology and lets face it, this is still an expensive hobby. But not as bad as is used to be. I see no reason to put limits on open, or what we called mod racing today. If you can't afford to race with the fast guys, start a spec class.


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## Gary (May 21, 2004)

Courtney Vaughan said:


> Looks like this this idea has very underwhelming support LOL.
> 
> Turned out to be an interesting discussion though!
> 
> I AM however looking at getting closer to ROAR rules next year for the SC class, so if you're running SC or plan to run SC with us next year you'll want to attend the meeting in December for the 2012 season.


It was a good topic and prolly needed to brought out in the open! If David Joor wins all the time, it ain't because he is running new tires every win. I hear Smiley is the fast guy in 10th scale, but he ain't winning because he is running new tires every run.

It's skill and experience.


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## j-e (Jun 22, 2011)

no offense, but this rule is really senseless... as the best idea was to run one tire per qual, then one of the same in the main. more than likely, you're gonna pick one that you've already run anyways, as per logic. and if someone doesn't follow the rule, it's only a difference of one tire... then why regulate it? as it was pointed out, track conditions change, as a result, the cars tunning needs adjusting, tire tread and compound are a way of tunning the ride. at this rate, why not regulate how many times you can make adjustments to your vehicle? (ok, that wasn't a queston, issert a . instead, period.) lol. 

but seriously, any consideration to regulating any class should be running equipement made for that particular model. any arguement made that "i already have tires for my buggy, so i'm gonna run them in my sc too.", well if you're running tires for both classes, you're wearing them out twice as fast, two set of tires, one for each class will last you twice as long, if not more. so that's not a good arguement. now, i really don't care how those running the show want to regulate things, i just wanna get out and race. as those with outrageous equipement can be beat by those with ROAR reg equip, i find it a personal challenge to be one to do so. so reg it up, or not, i'll be there! 

so my vote is a NO reg's on tires! lol... unless you want to regulate other aspects of the vehicles, then it could be a progressive aspect to reg's, but it shouldn't be the first. haha.


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## jasonwipf (Feb 23, 2009)

Courtney Vaughan said:


> Looks like this this idea has very underwhelming support LOL.
> 
> Turned out to be an interesting discussion though!
> 
> I AM however looking at getting closer to ROAR rules next year for the SC class, so if you're running SC or plan to run SC with us next year you'll want to attend the meeting in December for the 2012 season.


I agree I'm against any limiting in 1/8th, BUT SC is about realism and if any sort of limiting for the sake of bringing out the driver in you; SC would be the class, IMO. But really, our Sc rules are good no?


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## j-e (Jun 22, 2011)

doh, was i too late with my prior post? haha


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## YNOT3D (Feb 16, 2011)

#1. I have not read a single response yet.

#2. Good in theory, Imo it would be damaging to the hobby.

#3. Top performing racers who put the dedication of time and expense to race, should reap the benefits. The tires most of us run, new or old, would not help most racers win. A new pair of the most bad ***** sticky tires with the perfect tread for a track will not improve the finishing position for most drivers. Myself included. Give marrow or jason or any top peforming driver a set of old junk worn out tires from an ofna rtr buggy and they would still beat the people they are currenty beating now. 

Under this rule Cort, you would have been out when you stripped your hubs at mikes.

Is the point to cut cost? Wrong hobby to save money in. Level the playing field. Never happen unless we go to box stock slashes. 

I will go read now.


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## Gary (May 21, 2004)

Can I use Paragon?


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## mdwalsh (May 11, 2011)

jasonwipf said:


> I agree I'm against any limiting in 1/8th, BUT SC is about realism and if any sort of limiting for the sake of bringing out the driver in you; SC would be the class, IMO. But really, our Sc rules are good no?


no offence, but coming from a guy who dominated at mikes with a 4 cell set up and tekin 1/8th buggy combo, changing rules, to 1/10th scale motor and ESC systems and 2 cell, probably wont appeal to you. i wasnt even racing that day but it was a completely unfair advantage.

Matt


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## tebone626 (Apr 25, 2010)

mdwalsh said:


> no offence, but coming from a guy who dominated at mikes with a 4 cell set up and tekin 1/8th buggy combo, changing rules, to 1/10th scale motor and ESC systems and 2 cell, probably wont appeal to you. i wasnt even racing that day but it was a completely unfair advantage.
> 
> Matt


it may have been an unfair advantage, but he was following the rules. im sure the rules will change next year, and that would be great for the s/c. it needs more regulations.


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## mdwalsh (May 11, 2011)

tebone626 said:


> it may have been an unfair advantage, but he was following the rules. im sure the rules will change next year, and that would be great for the s/c. it needs more regulations.


i certainly wasnt trying to offend anyone and i understand he was following the rules but i was just trying to make a point that they need changing and for someone to say that the rules are fine when they are gaining an advantage by them is probably frustrating for some.

Matt


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## YNOT3D (Feb 16, 2011)

Ok so nevermind. It has already been pulled.

Wanna spice it up?

Invert the A mains. Roll a single di and what ever number hits, invert that number of drivers. TQ would start 6th worst case.

Gate starts. River is the only one with a gate.

Standing starts and make the heats, heat races.

One round of practice on the clock then run 2 rounds of heat races. Top finishers in the heats transfer to the A main. Similar to moto x.

All these with the way races are typically run, however it would add excitement.

Run the track backwards? All crash and burn races? Pit your own car?


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## wily (Oct 14, 2005)

mdwalsh said:


> no offence, but coming from a guy who dominated at mikes with a 4 cell set up and tekin 1/8th buggy combo, changing rules, to 1/10th scale motor and ESC systems and 2 cell, probably wont appeal to you. i wasnt even racing that day but it was a completely unfair advantage.
> 
> Matt


In Jason's defense, he ran his 1/8 gear only because he was waiting on his 2s and SC gear to show up. He runs 2s and 1/10 setup now.


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## mmorrow (Jan 18, 2009)

lets make JB run the bald tires and we can still run new ones. lol

Lets work on another idea, not sure if I want to try and police the tire rule.


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## kstoracing (Oct 30, 2008)

No, tire rule. Except for SC next year. I always considered 8th scale to be an open class ever since my GS Storm. Imo new tires stop being new after the first few minutes. And if u worry about losing to a guy because he put on a new set of tires. I could relate that to u losing a basketball game because the other guy put on a new set of kicks.

Honestly, this seems more of a SC issue than anything else. That would need more scrutiny than 8th.


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## Gulf Coast RaceWay (Dec 12, 2006)

Sc should be 14 turn doubles(motor) with sanyo 1700 scr(battery) and xtr tires, with 4min heats! LoL!


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