# 6 deer killed out of season in George West.



## On The Hook (Feb 24, 2009)

What the heck were these people thinking? 

I just heard from a friend that apparently, some kids with the last name Walker apparently from Corpus Christi were illegally hunting out of season on their parents property in George West. sad2sm

I was told that they killed 6 deer, cut the back-strap off of a couple of them and then dumped them all in the river. Someone saw them being dumped and notified the Game Warden, who went out to investigate and found tire tracks. The GW called the parents, to let them know. Parents called kids and let them know to expect company. The GW called the kids to come out and talk to him. Kids said that they were at the beach and did not know anything about it. GW found the kids (on the ranch) changing the tires out on their hunting truck (tires matched what GW found at the river where deer were dumped). 

These kids should be in DEEEEEEEEEEEEEP trouble(felonies and big fines), but I'm told that the GW is going light on them because he knows the family.

These kids need to learn a lesson, but it looks like the families influence is playing a part in the prosecution.

Anyone else heard anything about this or have any details or substantiated facts?


----------



## fender bender (Mar 31, 2006)

These kids need to learn a lesson.


----------



## TexasJ (Jun 19, 2006)

Let ye who is without sin cast the first stone.


----------



## Bucksnort (Jun 29, 2004)

Family influence is BIG in small towns.


----------



## RockportRobert (Dec 29, 2006)

TexasJ said:


> Let ye who is without sin cast the first stone.


TJ's right. I mean who among us hasn't ever shot six deer, dumped them in the river, changed our tires to avoid prosecution, and then relied on our well connected family to get off light?


----------



## TexasJ (Jun 19, 2006)

ACbob said:


> TJ's right. I mean who among us hasn't ever shot six deer, dumped them in the river, changed our tires to avoid prosecution, and then relied on our well connected family to get off light?


Lol, I think they took some back straps too!


----------



## Tiny (Dec 19, 2006)

ACbob said:


> TJ's right. I mean who among us hasn't ever shot six deer, dumped them in the river, changed our tires to avoid prosecution, and then relied on our well connected family to get off light?


Exactly!! Pfft.. Do it all the time! :spineyes:


----------



## Main Frame 8 (Mar 16, 2007)

Maybe if the parents have to pay the fines and the kid's hunting rights are revoked a few years, they may think twice about stupidity in the future. 

Folks, I am going to take it easy on the boys but you will need to write the State of Texas a check for $30,000


----------



## tinman (Apr 13, 2005)

I never personally have killed deer and dumped them in the river, and I also know that all you guys out there have a permanent halo around your little pointed heads, but if I had have gotten caught doing less than half the stuff I did when I was a kid, they would have given me 30 years in the electric chair.
Yes, it was dumb, but that's why they call them dumb kids.

Tinman


----------



## Charles Helm (Oct 22, 2004)

tinman said:


> ...30 years in the electric chair...


----------



## essayons75 (May 15, 2006)

tinman said:


> I never personally have killed deer and dumped them in the river, and I also know that all you guys out there have a permanent halo around your little pointed heads, but if I had have gotten caught doing less than half the stuff I did when I was a kid, they would have given me 30 years in the electric chair.
> Yes, it was dumb, but that's why they call them dumb kids.
> 
> Tinman


Anyone with the handle of "tinman" may want to stay away from the pointy head talk.


----------



## On The Hook (Feb 24, 2009)

TexasJ said:


> Let ye who is without sin cast the first stone.


Are you suggesting we ignore this because we are not perfect? I won't claim to be without sin, or having done everything right, but I do try very hard to do what is right. I go out of my way to help others, and go the extra mile if I do something. Sometimes there are legal/ethical lines that are not parallel, and one has to make choices. That does not make them bad.

These kids are bad, they killed for sport with no intention of eating their kill. They hunted illegally out of season for sport, not out of necessity or need. The deer they killed were dumped and there was no reason to waste the meat. They are old enough to drive, and old enough to make resopnsible decisions. This was not 1 bad decision, it was 6 seperate and intentional acts. We are not talking about 8 year olds, we are talking young adults. One has to wonder why they would do such a thing.


----------



## igo320 (May 17, 2005)

I think the law might be the least of their worries. If Dad has a sack, he might make sure they learn from their mistake. My dad was a good teacher.....I remember many lessons across my arse.


----------



## Tiny (Dec 19, 2006)

essayons75 said:


> Anyone with the handle of "tinman" may want to stay away from the pointy head talk.


LMAO!!!!  Coming!


----------



## spur (May 30, 2004)

who taught these young men that rules are made for others and not them. parents not being responsible .sport not.......a poacher is a poacher out of season waste of game.poor little rich kids my guess .money buys influnce everywhere.do the crime do the time and pay the fine .also woodshed time


----------



## brasos (Jan 7, 2006)

ACbob said:


> TJ's right. I mean who among us hasn't ever shot six deer, dumped them in the river, changed our tires to avoid prosecution, and then relied on our well connected family to get off light?


man if i had a nickel...


----------



## Rusty S (Apr 6, 2006)

If this really did happen, you can be assured this story will make it's way to TP&W top brass, name or no name a game warden wouldn't lose his job over small town politics. It would look like he was on the take if these kids didn't get prosecuted, we are on the internet, right?? rs


----------



## hadawife (Aug 5, 2009)

Rusty S said:


> If this really did happen, you can be assured this story will make it's way to TP&W top brass, name or no name a game warden wouldn't lose his job over small town politics. It would look like he was on the take if these kids didn't get prosecuted, we are on the internet, right?? rs


This story has already made it's way to the top and is being looked into by the higher ranks. They will get what they have coming to them.


----------



## Rack Ranch (May 25, 2004)

Just made a call and they are not getting off light.. Major felonies are coming down and there are facts left out of original post...Walker


----------



## Solid Action (May 21, 2004)

I know both Game Wardens and I can assure you that this family has no ties or links that would grant them special treatment. These "young adults" will get what is coming to them.

http://www.mysoutex.com/pages/full_...+with+killing+deer-+dumping+them+in+the+river

Three men charged with killing deer, dumping them in the river by Rita Arnst

     
 view slideshow (5 images)  PREV NEXT

  

<< >> 
  

A capias has been issued for the arrest of Corpus Christi residents Raymond "Ace" Walker, Garratt W. Harris and Paul Isaac Bueno for allegedly killing nine deer on the Walker Ranch and dumping the deer in the Nueces River.

"The three men could have been charged with 27 Class A misdemeanors (3 counts times nine deer), but we decided not to 'throw the book at them' because they confessed," said Clay Pipkin, Live Oak County game warden.

Walker, Harris and Bueno were charged with waste of game and hunting at night, both Class A misdemeanors, for allegedly killing nine deer on the evening of July 17. "They shot nine and only took back straps from two of them; that is why they are being charged with waste of game," said Carlos Riojas, Live Oak County game warden. "They just shot them and threw them in the river."

"A man that was jet skiing on the Nueces River near the Swinney Switch area was heading upriver, rounded a curve and saw a dead deer," said Pipkin. "He knew something was wrong and he kept on exploring and counted nine dead deer, so he contacted the sheriff's office," Pipkin continued.

"Clay and I were together when we got the call," said Riojas. "We called the skier and he told us where to find the deer." The game wardens searched the area by boat and the banks by foot. They found the nine deer but could not find where on the banks the deer had been thrown from. They searched for 8-9 hours until about 6:30 p.m.; they were going to go home for the day when they spotted a small space and a little trail. Riojas walked up the trail and he found a campfire. At the campfire were two burned back straps, a cottontail rabbit, and a bird (unknown species). "We think they tried to cook the back strap and other game but it looks like they were not sure what they were doing," said Riojas.

"We started looking around and found a blood trail down to the bank and found tracks. It had rained the night they were there and that made it easy to find the tracks," Riojas continued.

"While we were looking for evidence we heard a dozer and went up to the operator. It just happened to be one of the ranch owners. He was very nice and drove us around for an hour but didn't give us any information on who could have killed the deer," Pipkin said. "He gave us his brother's phone number and we contacted his brother. It took a whole day to track him down and get him to return our calls. The next day he offered to meet us at that ranch," Pipkin said.

"I started looking at the family portraits and started asking questions about the different family members. I have a feeling he knew we had an idea that his grandson was involved," continued Pipkin. The man gave Pipkin his son's phone number, who in turn gave Pipkin his own son's phone number in the Corpus Christi area.

"I called the son (ranch owner's grandson) identified as Raymond "Ace" Walker and asked him if he had been in Live Oak County," Pipkin stated. Walker allegedly said, "Yes."

Pipkin allegedly asked Walker if he had been at his grandfather's ranch and he (Walker) allegedly said yes. Next Pipkin allegedly asked Walker if he knew why he was calling and he allegedly answered in the affirmative. "So we are calling about the deer," Pipkin said. Walker allegedly continued by saying "Yes".

Pipkin said he told Walker he was going to send someone down to meet with him in Calallen. "Carlos and I decided to go to Calallen to met Ace (Walker) rather than send someone but we contacted some game wardens from the area. When we arrived in Calallen, Ace (Walker) was not readily available. At first he didn't answer our calls and then he told us he had to run some (auto) parts and we would have to wait another hour. Another suspect, later identified as Garratt Harris, told us he was at the beach and couldn't meet us. But the other game wardens were familiar with the area and we soon found Harris and Walker."

"They basically lied about their whereabouts and deliberately tried to stall us because they were trying to get rid of evidence," alleged Riojas. "We caught them in the process of swapping out tires from one vehicle to another."

Walker and Harris had allegedly tried to wash the bed of an ATV and trailer that the wardens believed had been used to move the dead deer to the river. However, the bed still contained blood and shell casings, said Pipkin. "They tried to hide the ATV in an old Penske-type truck. The ATV had blue paint that had evidently blown-up on it with the fire. We photographed the evidence and escorted them to the Game Warden Regional Office and they gave statements."

In addition to full confessions, Walker and Harris allegedly gave the game wardens information about a rifle and a pistol they used, plus directions to the storage facility where another gun was hidden. A few days later, another man identified as Paul Isaac Bueno was questioned by local game wardens and charged. The three work at an automobile auction warehouse in the Corpus Christi area.


----------



## TxDuSlayer (Jun 24, 2006)

Rack Ranch said:


> Just made a call and they are not getting off light.. Major felonies are coming down and there are facts left out of original post...Walker


Looks like they are getting what they deserve! That GW may have some explaining to do to his boss there in Austin.


----------



## Rusty S (Apr 6, 2006)

Those pictures make me sick, senseless killing for some type of macho entertainment, hang em high. rs


----------



## Rack Ranch (May 25, 2004)

No he is doing his job..it takes a while to gather all the facts to put the case together.. there is a story in the Three Rivers paper.. These boys screwed the pooch on this one..


TxDuSlayer said:


> Looks like they are getting what they deserve! That GW may have some explaining to do to his boss there in Austin.


----------



## BIG PAPPA (Apr 1, 2008)

*Big Mistake??*

As long as the BOYS (young adults) learn from these mistakes, i for one would be okay in going light on them as long as they are not in constant trouble type BOYS. It will not be up to the Game Warden, or their Higher Ranks, It will be up to the Judge and or Jury. Tikets will be issued, charges will be filed, and a day or two in front of the Judge will be in their very near future. They apparently have been brought up in the outdoors and should have some good ROOTS, so i hope they deal with the outcome like they should and get on with their lives with a little better perspective of humanity and the Environment.


----------



## Little-bit (Oct 19, 2005)

tinman said:


> I never personally have killed deer and dumped them in the river, and I also know that all you guys out there have a permanent halo around your little pointed heads, but if I had have gotten caught doing less than half the stuff I did when I was a kid, they would have given me 30 years in the electric chair.
> Yes, it was dumb, but that's why they call them dumb kids.
> 
> Tinman


X2... I did some pretty stupid stuff to!


----------



## TxDuSlayer (Jun 24, 2006)

Rusty S said:


> Those pictures make me sick, senseless killing for some type of macho entertainment, hang em high. rs


Rusty where are there pics at?


----------



## Rusty S (Apr 6, 2006)

TxDuSlayer said:


> Rusty where are there pics at?


Solid Actions post with the story. rs


----------



## boom! (Jul 10, 2004)

This goes well beyond a "stupid kids" act.


----------



## Rusty S (Apr 6, 2006)

They all three work at an auto auction warehouse in Corpus, if this is any clue to their character, no telling what is going on at that facility. rs


----------



## RogerB (Oct 11, 2005)

it's POACHING plain and simple whatever penalties can be applied should be applied to the maximum allowed by law. 9 deer slaughter so they could cook and eat two backstraps? you break the law - you pay the price.


----------



## BIG PAPPA (Apr 1, 2008)

*THE WALKERS*

I beleive this Family owns the Sparkling City Auto Auction in CalAllen.


----------



## GunDog (Jun 6, 2006)

I am not okay going light on the boys; they did not confess...they were caught. They knew what they did was wrong and they tried to cover their tracks; plain and simple. Treat them as an adult and give them the proper and appropriate penalty.


----------



## TXPalerider (May 21, 2004)

I agree that boys, regardless of upbringing, will sometimes do stupid stuff. Especially when they are hanging with other boys. The testosterone gets to flowing and they just seem to make bad decisions. There are many things I did as a boy that I am not proud of and wouldn't do today (nothing even close to this). But, something of this magnitude, IMO, is probably rooted by improper parenting.

Now, I know I'm not a perfect parent. In fact, my oldest boy (a pretty good kid) has done some pretty stupid stuff. Stuff that just boggles my mind, considering how I know I raised him. But, rest assured, if my boy had done something like this, the criminal justice system would be the VERY LEAST of his worries.


----------



## Pathfinder (Jun 9, 2004)

What makes me angry is I hunt off of 59 out of George West with my 11 year old son and we didn't see 6 deer total all of last season. We hunted every weekend very hard. It's peckerwoods like these that have hunted this ranch before we got on the lease last season. I had to teach my son to let everything we saw go because there just aren't that many deer on the place. Maybe in a few years?

I have no sense of mercy for these guys who are stealing opportunities for my son!!!


----------



## S-3 ranch (May 26, 2004)

neaver mind it is a walker family deal , drugs , poaching , just genral lawlessness is a way of life , heck they own the land they may have needed it for a frat party


----------



## Encinal (Jan 18, 2008)

30 years ago when a state biologist gave a recommendation for a ranch to kill 150 does and 50 bucks in South Texas... What do you think the odds were that none of that family shot more than their own license worth of tags. Everyone knew it was happening and turned the other way... At least on the biology side.

Thank God for MLDP's. Thats all I really have to say about that.


----------



## scubaru (Mar 28, 2005)

Encinal said:


> Thank God for MLDP's. Thats all I really have to say about that.


Care to elaborate? I mean, we have an MLD permit but I can hardly tie it in with the story of these yayhoos.


----------



## tinman (Apr 13, 2005)

*Mistake*



tinman said:


> I never personally have killed deer and dumped them in the river, and I also know that all you guys out there have a permanent halo around your little pointed heads, but if I had have gotten caught doing less than half the stuff I did when I was a kid, they would have given me 30 years in the electric chair.
> Yes, it was dumb, but that's why they call them dumb kids.
> 
> Tinman


After reading the recent posts and seeing what really happened in this case of intentional and needless slaughter, I would like to retract my first post, and agree that these weren't just "dumb kids" like I thought at first, and offer an apoligy for talking without knowing all the facts.
It doesn't change the fact that I have done some things that I am not real proud of in my youth, and I was indeed fortunate that I was not caught. Have I ever killed over my limit of deer? Yes, I have. more times than I care to admit. Have I ever killed deer and not tagged it? Yes, more times than I care to admit. Have I ever killed deer and let them go to waste just for the sake of killing? No, I have not.
It appears that these were young MEN who have no regard for anything , and I agree, they should be punished for what they did.
Oh, and my comment about the pointed heads and halos........I thought was pretty cute, and fits lots of folks!

Tinman


----------



## Rusty S (Apr 6, 2006)

Encinal said:


> 30 years ago when a state biologist gave a recommendation for a ranch to kill 150 does and 50 bucks in South Texas... What do you think the odds were that none of that family shot more than their own license worth of tags. Everyone knew it was happening and turned the other way... At least on the biology side.
> 
> Thank God for MLDP's. Thats all I really have to say about that.


You were killing deer and throwing them in the river? rs


----------



## buckbuddy (Sep 1, 2008)

Rusty S said:


> You were killing deer and throwing them in the river? rs


 YE!YE!!YE! :biggrin:


----------



## S-3 ranch (May 26, 2004)

*walker family school mates*



pilar said:


> neaver mind it is a walker family deal , drugs , poaching , just genral lawlessness is a way of life , heck they own the land they may have needed it for a frat party


Fowler Carson , Oaks Carson , Pat carson , Julie Wrey , pat Wrey , christie wrey all Walker family , 1rst 3 out lawes , the rest just want the $$$$ of the ranches , dang shame that much land fell in to bad hands


----------



## John Galt (Aug 6, 2006)

TexasJ said:


> Let ye who is without sin cast the first stone.


I'll cast the first stone. That kind of poaching is completely unjustified and they need the book thrown at them.

Now, I can understand (though not condone)...shooting a Killdee thinking it's a dove (George W. Bush) or taking a young spike because you can't see the 1" horns, or even shooting something 45 minutes after sunset instead of 30, or failing to tag as soon as the deer is down/forgetting license in camp...that I can see (but I think in all cases you should be fined for that). But let's talk about what they DID:

--Shooting deer 2 months out of season
--Dumping the carcasses
--Lying to LEO's

I wish there was a way a lifetime ban on hunting could be imposed. I think it's irresponsible to try to excuse that with some passage from the Bible. I'd guess Jesus would come down against poaching and waste of God's creatures.


----------



## Encinal (Jan 18, 2008)

I've never had a ranch on a river... Nor have I intentionally wasted meat like that... I've killed 9 deer in a day though... But with mld tags.


----------



## hadawife (Aug 5, 2009)

John Galt said:


> I'll cast the first stone. That kind of poaching is completely unjustified and they need the book thrown at them.
> 
> Now, I can understand (though not condone)...shooting a Killdee thinking it's a dove (George W. Bush) or taking a young spike because you can't see the 1" horns, or even shooting something 45 minutes after sunset instead of 30, or failing to tag as soon as the deer is down/forgetting license in camp...that I can see (but I think in all cases you should be fined for that). But let's talk about what they DID:
> 
> ...


Can a felon get a hunting license? I thought if you were convicted of a felony that the state will not issue a hunting license, but maybe i am wrong.


----------



## S-3 ranch (May 26, 2004)

*are these your family RR*

:question:


Encinal said:


> I've never had a ranch on a river... Nor have I intentionally wasted meat like that... I've killed 9 deer in a day though... But with mld tags.


all are based out of sinten and victoria


----------



## Rusty S (Apr 6, 2006)

Encinal said:


> I've never had a ranch on a river... Nor have I intentionally wasted meat like that... I've killed 9 deer in a day though... But with mld tags.


I know what you meant, I too have killed more deer in a day than I have wanted to, but when you do something for management purposes and the meat does not go to waste--that is a way different story than what these boys did. I just hate to see the sport/pasttime many of us love be stained by the actions of a few braindead idiots. rs


----------



## S-3 ranch (May 26, 2004)

*i know what you mean*



Rusty S said:


> I know what you meant, I too have killed more deer in a day than I have wanted to, but when you do something for management purposes and the meat does not go to waste--that is a way different story than what these boys did. I just hate to see the sport/pasttime many of us love be stained by the actions of a few braindead idiots. rs


my family had 500 acers in kendall co , the state said shoot 35 does , but all we had was 5 hunters , finaly made a deal with the GW give them to the poor folk " I just don't want a call " do what is right :shamrock:


----------



## capt.sandbar (Aug 31, 2007)

Doing things to manage deer heard can sometimes seem abusive. But that is not the case here.
I've been reading this artical today and was not able to view the pics at work (filter). Since I have seen them, it really shows the profound waste that these young men created out of pure thrill hunting... The young man whose family property they were on surely knows better. You can bring some youths in from the city that only see this kind of killing on video games and they don't understand what they are doing until they have these dead carcusses at their feet. Part of that is our society (just like youths shooting people on video games and having NO IDEA what a gun can actually do to a person).
My punishment suggestion is: 
1. Have these young men pay a steep fine per animal.
2. Have them work in a feed the hungry program. Make them responsible for skinning and cleaning every deer in their area that is killed under MLD regulations for food for the hungry. Every weekend of hunting season for 3 years.
I do believe that would leave a lasting memory for what they have done...

Just my .02$


----------



## TXwhtlHNTR (Nov 19, 2008)

capt.sandbar said:


> Doing things to manage deer heard can sometimes seem abusive. But that is not the case here.
> I've been reading this artical today and was not able to view the pics at work (filter). Since I have seen them, it really shows the profound waste that these young men created out of pure thrill hunting... The young man whose family property they were on surely knows better. You can bring some youths in from the city that only see this kind of killing on video games and they don't understand what they are doing until they have these dead carcusses at their feet. Part of that is our society (just like youths shooting people on video games and having NO IDEA what a gun can actually do to a person).
> My punishment suggestion is:
> *1. Have these young men pay a steep fine per animal.*
> ...


:smile:

Good post. Like the suggestions. ESPECIALLY #2. - green.


----------



## BIG PAPPA (Apr 1, 2008)

*Convicted Felons*

I'm not exactly sure, but have been told a Felon CANNOT have a firearm in his or her Possesion. Maybe a LEO can verify.


----------



## Tommy2000 (Mar 23, 2008)

Their family owns the ranch next door to my sister's place outside of George West. She found the deer floating in the Nueces river. She told me the poachers were given a misdemeanor charge because they admitted their involvement.


----------



## Rusty S (Apr 6, 2006)

It will be a lot worse than a misdemeanor when its done with. rs


----------



## 11andy11 (Aug 12, 2004)

I am not condoning what they did and I think its pretty mess up, but did anything they do constitute a felony?


----------



## Rusty S (Apr 6, 2006)

I don't know about felony charges, but I bet animal replacement fees are in their future, and possible license suspensions. rs


----------



## 11andy11 (Aug 12, 2004)

and it would be well deserved.


----------



## Sunbeam (Feb 24, 2009)

They should be punished to the letter of the law. No more no less. 
It appears that the parents of the young man from the ranch owning family have grossly failed their son during his up bringing. Too late to correct that failure but a stiff penalty in a public trial might make some others think twice.
Can you imagine what the "huggers" can do with those pics?


----------



## TheAnt (Jul 1, 2008)

*By golly I'll throw a rock!*



TexasJ said:


> Let ye who is without sin cast the first stone.


I had to think about that... without sin. I did come up with an overkill duck hunt 30 years ago. We were SICK of all those canvasbacks flying around, decoying and otherwise giving us good shots. I think we managed ONE gray dusck so the rest finally were canvasbacks. I ain't sayin' how many because I am not proud of it.

Other than that I'm pretty clean, so let me cast a stone. Not only did these guys break the law they wasted the very deer they killed. To me that may be worse than killing out of season. I guess my Nativer American pride has something to do with this but to kill without respecting the deaths deserves whatever the law can do and our contempt for them.


----------



## Brassnadz (Jun 18, 2007)

BIG PAPPA said:


> As long as the BOYS (young adults) learn from these mistakes, i for one would be okay in going light on them as long as they are not in constant trouble type BOYS. It will not be up to the Game Warden, or their Higher Ranks, It will be up to the Judge and or Jury. Tikets will be issued, charges will be filed, and a day or two in front of the Judge will be in their very near future. They apparently have been brought up in the outdoors and should have some good ROOTS, so i hope they deal with the outcome like they should and get on with their lives with a little better perspective of humanity and the Environment.





Little-bit said:


> X2... I did some pretty stupid stuff to!


Yall cant be serious right? I havent read the rest of the posts yet, but yall have stopped me in my tracks. Yes, everyone makes mistakes, and no one is perfect, but I can honestly tell yall I for one have never poached deer. A day or two in front of a judge? Maybe. If I were the judge, it would take a day or two just for arse chewing, then I would proceed to throw the book at them. Surely yall aint serious.


----------



## Brassnadz (Jun 18, 2007)

TXPalerider said:


> I agree that boys, regardless of upbringing, will sometimes do stupid stuff. Especially when they are hanging with other boys. The testosterone gets to flowing and they just seem to make bad decisions. There are many things I did as a boy that I am not proud of and wouldn't do today (nothing even close to this). But, something of this magnitude, IMO, is probably rooted by improper parenting.
> 
> Now, I know I'm not a perfect parent. In fact, my oldest boy (a pretty good kid) has done some pretty stupid stuff. Stuff that just boggles my mind, considering how I know I raised him. But, rest assured, if my boy had done something like this, the criminal justice system would be the VERY LEAST of his worries.


+1


----------



## Brassnadz (Jun 18, 2007)

TXwhtlHNTR said:


> :smile:
> 
> Good post. Like the suggestions. ESPECIALLY #2. - green.


Doubled up.


----------



## Brassnadz (Jun 18, 2007)

11andy11 said:


> I am not condoning what they did and I think its pretty mess up, but did anything they do constitute a felony?


In short, YES.

*SUBTITLE B. HUNTING AND FISHING*
*§ 61.022. TAKING WILDLIFE RESOURCES WITHOUT CONSENT OF LANDOWNER PROHIBITED*
(a) No person may hunt or catch by any means or method or possess a wildlife resource at any time and at any place covered by this chapter unless the owner of the land or water, or the owner's agent, consents.
(b) Except as provided by Subsection (c), a person who violates Subsection (a) the first time commits an offense that is a Class A Parks and Wildlife Code misdemeanor and is punishable in addition by the revocation or suspension under Section 12.5015 of hunting and fishing licenses and permits.
(c) A person who violates Subsection (a) the first time by killing a desert bighorn sheep, pronghorn antelope, mule deer, or *white-tailed deer* commits an offense that is a Parks and Wildlife Code *state jail felony* and is punishable in addition by the revocation or suspension under Section 12.5015 of hunting and fishing licenses and permits.
(d) A second violation of Subsection (a) shall be classified as one category higher than the first violation or a Parks and Wildlife Code felony, whichever is lesser, and is punishable in addition by the revocation or suspension under Section 12.5015 of hunting and fishing licenses and permits.
(e) A third or subsequent violation of Subsection (a) shall be classified as a Parks and Wildlife Code felony and is punishable in addition by the revocation or suspension under Section 12.5015 of hunting and fishing licenses and permits.


----------



## phil k (May 8, 2007)

looks like they did the A-B-C-D-E- to me ,and should be charged with them all


----------



## Brute (Apr 29, 2009)

IF you are on felony probation you can't even have a firearm in your house. They tell you to sell them or send them to some one elses house.


----------



## wish2fish (Mar 1, 2005)

This would be the best punishment in my belief.

Make these kids assist in teaching Hunters Education classes for a couple of years. Make them report on weekends to educate other young hunters on the laws and regulations around the sport.

This will seriously aggravate these kids having to spend there time teaching others not to be stupid like they were. Trust me it will work, they will be reformed.

Paying large fines or even some light jail time does nothing. They will forget as soon as the check is cleared or time is served.

Making them provide community service not only changes attitudes but it makes sure they don't forget. It gives back to the community in which they "stole" from. It also should create a sense of responsibility and kinship that they obviously don't have at the present time.

That and a good ol *** whoopin from Dad will cure these offenders. 

Just my opinion.


----------



## R_Aboud (May 26, 2009)

*Walker Ranch*

****, we used to hunt a Walker Ranch in freer a couple years ago and now we're on the property next door. I wonder if its the same Walker's? Anyone here know?


----------



## uncle dave (Jul 27, 2008)

Money talks bullsh*t walks


----------



## Hookdog02 (Feb 14, 2007)

RogerB said:


> it's POACHING plain and simple whatever penalties can be applied should be applied to the maximum allowed by law. 9 deer slaughter so they could cook and eat two backstraps? you break the law - you pay the price.


AMEN give em the Mike Vick treatment, 18 months sounds about right


----------



## aneel (Oct 8, 2005)

I call bull [email protected]#$ ! This isnt some stupid thing a few kids did. This is poaching in the worst way. To kill an animal just for fun and dump it in the river? *** were they thinking? Wich goes to show they werent, throw the book at em


----------



## catchysumfishy (Jul 19, 2008)

aneel said:


> I call bull [email protected]#$ ! This isnt some stupid thing a few kids did. This is poaching in the worst way. To kill an animal just for fun and dump it in the river? *** were they thinking? Wich goes to show they werent, throw the book at em


You know what would have happened to us if we pulled sum ****e like that-thuh Leo's would have been the last of our fears....! Cowboy Dave would have darnt near kilt us! But he taught us different!


----------



## Brute (Apr 29, 2009)

I wasn't any angel, but the difference between these boys and us growing up was.

1) We would have only killed 1 or 2 because we knew how to skin and cook the meat and knew we could feed a large party with that amount.

2) We would not have tried to lie and cover it up... IF.... we would have gotten caught.


I agree with the post above. Give them a ton of community sevice hours that have to be outdoor and hunting related. Fines can be paid $50 a month for the next 100yrs to the state... or even worse by mommy and daddys checkbook. Their time is what will hit them the hardest.

As for a felony... that would have to depend on previous records and stuff for me. I don't think I know enough about the people or what went on to go that far.


----------



## MigllaFishKilla (Mar 3, 2009)

i would give them some harsh probation,fines and suspended licenses. i dont know about a felony though, seems a little rough. depending on their previous criminal record, i would not slap them with a felon.


----------



## TXwhtlHNTR (Nov 19, 2008)

aneel said:


> I call bull [email protected]#$ ! This isnt some stupid thing a few kids did. This is poaching in the worst way. To kill an animal just for fun and dump it in the river? *** were they thinking? Wich goes to show they werent, throw the book at em


Yep.


----------



## Brassnadz (Jun 18, 2007)

MigllaFishKilla said:


> i would give them some harsh probation,fines and suspended licenses. i dont know about a felony though, seems a little rough. depending on their previous criminal record, i would not slap them with a felon.


Would your opinion change if it were your lease they poached on? Just curious.


----------



## jlh (Mar 15, 2006)

*lease*

start off with I help manage a 8000 acrea lease. Yes I do believe they should be punished but lets all look at ourselves what have we done in life and got caught or didnt are we proud no but we did it so also if we are going to go so hard on one law it should be the same for all laws like crossing fence 5 foot to pick up deer that jump the fence after u shot it or wow drinking after only a couple of beers no u might not be inpaired but law is law so when throwing stones remember your own life. what about seatbelts, speeding, keeping fish .250 inch short you can go on and on but it all boils down to what would you want said if you did it also I will prosecute someone for doing something I did I was just luckee enough not to get caught does that make it right or wrong


----------



## catchysumfishy (Jul 19, 2008)

jlh said:


> start off with I help manage a 8000 acrea lease. Yes I do believe they should be punished but lets all look at ourselves what have we done in life and got caught or didnt are we proud no but we did it so also if we are going to go so hard on one law it should be the same for all laws like crossing fence 5 foot to pick up deer that jump the fence after u shot it or wow drinking after only a couple of beers no u might not be inpaired but law is law so when throwing stones remember your own life. what about seatbelts, speeding, keeping fish .250 inch short you can go on and on but it all boils down to what would you want said if you did it also I will prosecute someone for doing something I did I was just luckee enough not to get caught does that make it right or wrong


There is NO excuse for this one NONE what so ever-Nail their arse to the wall and make a prime example out of them And their Parents!


----------



## John Galt (Aug 6, 2006)

jlh said:


> start off with I help manage a 8000 acrea lease. Yes I do believe they should be punished but lets all look at ourselves what have we done in life and got caught or didnt are we proud no but we did it so also if we are going to go so hard on one law it should be the same for all laws like crossing fence 5 foot to pick up deer that jump the fence after u shot it or wow drinking after only a couple of beers no u might not be inpaired but law is law so when throwing stones remember your own life. what about seatbelts, speeding, keeping fish .250 inch short you can go on and on but it all boils down to what would you want said if you did it also I will prosecute someone for doing something I did I was just luckee enough not to get caught does that make it right or wrong


I'm guessing you're not a lawyer or a LEO with the "No laws can be prosecuted because many people have done illegal things in the past" attitude. I'll re-iterate. I've never shot anything two months out of season, lied to LEO's or (in my opinion, the worst thing they did, a violation of both God's law and man's laws) killed game and dumped it in the river.

Now, if y'all will excuse me, I saw some people jaywalking this morning so in my opinion I'm justified in my intention to commit a couple of murders, cook up some meth, and rob a bank. Would like to stay and chat, but time's a-wasting.


----------



## jlh (Mar 15, 2006)

*post*

well hang on a minute what I was trying to say if you get caught and they throw book at you well thats what you get but if they go light on you well thats good for you bad for the one that didnt get it light if I get caught going cross a fence and get prosceuted then I will pay but if I get off Im happy to but laws or laws and dont matter how you look at it some seem worse than others I will agree this is wrong and should be tooken care of but also can see that if your son ran a red light after drinking 1 beer and killed 2 people I wouldnt want him tried for manslaughter for bad judgement either I guess I should of kept my mouth shut because I cant explain what I mean but hope I dont every have this problem and if I do I will try to get law to throw book at them but thats the big word


----------



## Rack Ranch (May 25, 2004)

Dang Dude!! Mix in a period or something... I sound like a caveman trying to read your post..


jlh said:


> well hang on a minute what I was trying to say if you get caught and they throw book at you well thats what you get but if they go light on you well thats good for you bad for the one that didnt get it light if I get caught going cross a fence and get prosceuted then I will pay but if I get off Im happy to but laws or laws and dont matter how you look at it some seem worse than others I will agree this is wrong and should be tooken care of but also can see that if your son ran a red light after drinking 1 beer and killed 2 people I wouldnt want him tried for manslaughter for bad judgement either I guess I should of kept my mouth shut because I cant explain what I mean but hope I dont every have this problem and if I do I will try to get law to throw book at them but thats the big word


----------



## collegeboy (May 26, 2004)

You took the words out of my mouth RR. My mouth was getting dry just reading that.


----------



## rambunctious (May 30, 2004)

*Deer*

I don't know what kind of parents they have, but from the actions of the kids, I'd say the parents have a don't G-A-S ,attitude. Rich little bsturds,need to be HUNG. No telling how much they have done and not got caught at.Now we will see how big the TP&W cajones are.


----------



## jlh (Mar 15, 2006)

Thats funny my english teacher used to take points off all of my papers for not using punctions...


----------



## DadSaid (Apr 4, 2006)

Rack Ranch said:


> Dang Dude!! Mix in a period or something... I sound like a caveman trying to read your post..
> 
> 
> > that's funny right there.


----------



## Charles Helm (Oct 22, 2004)

jlh said:


> Thats funny my english teacher used to take points off all of my papers for not using punctions...


How were misspelled words handled?

:slimer:


----------



## John Galt (Aug 6, 2006)

jlh said:


> well hang on a minute what I was trying to say if you get caught and they throw book at you well thats what you get but if they go light on you well thats good for you bad for the one that didnt get it light if I get caught going cross a fence and get prosceuted then I will pay but if I get off Im happy to but laws or laws and dont matter how you look at it some seem worse than others I will agree this is wrong and should be tooken care of but also can see that if your son ran a red light after drinking 1 beer and killed 2 people I wouldnt want him tried for manslaughter for bad judgement either I guess I should of kept my mouth shut because I cant explain what I mean but hope I dont every have this problem and if I do I will try to get law to throw book at them but thats the big word


Boomhauer, I did not understand a word you just said.


----------



## James Howell (May 21, 2004)

I would imagine she didn't give you an "A" at the end of the semester either.



jlh said:


> Thats funny my english teacher used to take points off all of my papers for not using punctions...


----------



## TXPalerider (May 21, 2004)

Rack Ranch said:


> Dang Dude!! Mix in a period or something... I sound like a caveman trying to read your post..


LOL...I thought the same thing!!

Figured both his <period> key and his <shift> keys were broke.

LOL Funny Stuff.


----------



## jlh (Mar 15, 2006)

*help*

Daggum, yall make me sound like a caveman. I didnt know I was in a english class. Well I guess I can try to type a little better, so I dont catch alot of flack. Man, sorry for hijacking this mans thread.


----------



## YoungGun1 (Jan 8, 2009)

This a an extremely frustrating thread to read...even if I am in am categorized as a "dumb yungin". If you do something that is wrong...you should get punished. Those of you that are saying..."well we did dumb stuff when we were kids so they should be let off easy"...YOU ARE THE REASON DUMB KIDS LIKE THIS EXIST! Anyone out there that is playing the card, "oh they are young and don't know any better" is just enabling this type of behavior. They cut the backstraps out (shows me they know at least something about deer), the dumped them in a river (means they were trying to cover something up), and they lied about being at the ranch (which means they were running from their actions). 

Now that I am off my soapbox...

As far as punishment is concerned...

Give them what they deserve. No less and no more. If you try and make an example out of them and give them a harsher sentence then they will never take any ownership in their mistake. They can rationalize the punishment by saying, "oh they were just trying to make an example out of kids and we were the unlucky ones that fell victim". 

I am not a parent so I will just share what MY parents would have done in this scenario...

Officer: 

"Mr. Jacobus...we have heard firm reports that your son and his friends have been involved in hunting out of season and have dumped a number of deer carcasas in the river near your property. Would you mind if we went onto your land to investigate these allegations?"

My dad: 

"You are more than welcome to go onto my land. A recommendation though...hurry up and get there before I do because if I get there before you...you will have a homicide on your hands as well!"


----------



## TXPalerider (May 21, 2004)

jlh said:


> Daggum, yall make me sound like a caveman. I didnt know I was in a english class. Well I guess I can try to type a little better, so I dont catch alot of flack. Man, sorry for hijacking this mans thread.


Not a problem "Run-On." Maybe you could just throw in a double space here an there so we can take a breath occasionally. It's a little easier on the eyesight too. :spineyes:

(just picking)


----------



## Rusty S (Apr 6, 2006)

Lifetime suspended license. Wont happen, but I will make sure TP&W hears this every week, if not how can you enforce the 13" rule when you allow does to be killed and thrown into a river, and money gets you off.????? rs


----------



## wennis1 (Nov 5, 2008)

It happens all the time i bet.


----------



## TXwhtlHNTR (Nov 19, 2008)

*????*



What have I missed? Everyone keeps talking about KIDS making foolish mistakes. I've made poor choices in the past, we all have except the few here who might be perfect. I get jlh's point that every parent wants to help their kids, and that a parent would want their child to have every leniency possible. 

However, if I recall what I read about the case correctly, the indivuals who did this are *ADULTS* . Younger then I am for sure, but not minor children. Adults who based on their actions, KNEW the severity of the wrong they did. They showed no remorse, instead they tried to hide their guilt. 

I don't believe it will happen, but I feel it appropriate that, aside from monetary compensation to the state (a given), they should never legally hunt or possess a gun again.


----------



## TXPalerider (May 21, 2004)

Teenagers or not. It really makes no difference to me. It's not like they were 12-13 years old. They were at least old enough to drive for God's sake!! IMO, if they are old enough to bear the responsibility of driving a vehicle large enough to kill someone in an accident if they make a bad decision, they are certainly old enough to bear the responsibility of their premeditated/conscious decisions.

That's the problem with society today!! We hold such low expectations for our teenagers!! Without giving it a second thought, we put them in positions of adult responsibility. Yet, when they make a bad choice and screw it up, we just write it off by saying "they are just teenagers." What a crock!!! They were old enough to drive, old enough to go to the ranch by themselves, old enough to go off with a loaded gun by themselves, etc., etc., etc. But, they aren't old enough to suffer the consequences of the bad decisions they made after being given adult responsibility????? Give me a freakin' break!!!

If a teenager is not capable of accepting the consequences of bad decisions made while charged with adult responsibility, then they should never be put in that position!!

For some reason, the teen years are viewed as some sort of vacation for those between the ages of 12 and 20. Society doesn't expect much of anything from them-except trouble. And the sad part is, as society has continued to lower expectations, our teens expectations for themselves have fallen to be in line with ours.

The fact is, not so long ago there was no such thing as a "teenager." You were either a kid or an adult. When you reached puberty, you became an adult with all the same expectations and responsibilities as your parents.

By lowering our expectations, we have effectively screwed our kids out of potentially productive decade of their lives. And this mentality goes WAY beyond just how we view our teens in society.

I go back to my original post on this thread.....this was a parenting problem, plain and simple. And that type/form of parenting is nothing more than a byproduct of our society!! :headknock

I apologize for the rant.  I'll step down from my soapbox for now. It's just that this sort of stuff gets me fired up!! And reading through this thread just triggered a whole wave of opinions I couldn't hang onto any longer.

Some of you may think I'm full of craap on this. I don't know. But, if you do, do yourself a favor and Google "David Farragut". I think you might be shocked by what you find/read. And truth be told, up until 75-100 years ago, guys like him were more the rule than the exception.

That's my 10 cents on the issue. Consider it a down payment on the prison cell these idiots should be living in for the next couple of years!!

I'm out!!


----------



## BigBuck (Mar 2, 2005)

As far as TxPalerider's rant,
Put me down for X2 on this issue. 
BB


----------



## Freshwaterman (May 21, 2004)

As far as TxPalerider's rant,
Put me down for X3 on this issue.


----------



## Swampus (Sep 1, 2005)

Just like those "Good O' Boys" who trap wild Quail--still poaching--Shooting Deer out of season--or over the tags--not obeying the fishing regs.--all poaching and raping our resources-- I say all that stuff is no good idiots that need to be reported and STOPPED--We have put several in JAIL for the same!----and reported some to TPW to keep an eye on as repeat Offenders and they will catch them------Poaching is wrong period.

swamp


----------



## Brute (Apr 29, 2009)

Swampus said:


> Just like those "Good O' Boys" who trap wild Quail--still poaching--Shooting Deer out of season--or over the tags--not obeying the fishing regs.--all poaching and raping our resources-- I say all that stuff is no good idiots that need to be reported and STOPPED--We have put several in JAIL for the same!----and reported some to TPW to keep an eye on as repeat Offenders and they will catch them------Poaching is wrong period.
> 
> swamp


What if you were a poor family. Used the natural game off YOUR property to feed your family? Would it still be poaching? Still should be punished to the full extent off the law? That is not the case in the instance obviously, but would yall still feel the same?


----------



## Rack Ranch (May 25, 2004)

Poe people gots food stamps.. they dont need shoot no deer.. sides that.. even if they did.. theyed eat every part right down to the chittlings..shoot man

What your talking about is not even in the same ball park with this 
situation..Walker


Brute said:


> What if you were a poor family. Used the natural game off YOUR property to feed your family? Would it still be poaching? Still should be punished to the full extent off the law? That is not the case in the instance obviously, but would yall still feel the same?


----------



## Brute (Apr 29, 2009)

I know it doesn't relate to this... was just wondering people's response. I figured the original post had been beaten to death.



Brute said:


> What if you were a poor family. Used the natural game off YOUR property to feed your family? Would it still be poaching? Still should be punished to the full extent off the law? *That is not the case in the instance obviously*, but would yall still feel the same?


----------



## Rusty S (Apr 6, 2006)

Brute said:


> I know it doesn't relate to this... was just wondering people's response. I figured the original post had been beaten to death.


Then start a new thread, no harm, no foul. rs


----------



## catchysumfishy (Jul 19, 2008)

Brute said:


> What if you were a poor family. Used the natural game off YOUR property to feed your family? Would it still be poaching? Still should be punished to the full extent off the law? That is not the case in the instance obviously, but would yall still feel the same?


What if..............***, this post sux....!


----------

