# Liberty boat ramp



## redexpress

Since the Trinity River has come down from the floods, I thought I would go at our public servants again regarding the Liberty boat ramp. I sent a recent pic of the boat ramp at Hwy 90 and the Trinity River to the TP&W statewide boat ramp specialist, and the Liberty County TXDOT Engineer. Also "cc'ed" the Liberty County judge, Liberty Mayor, Liberty City Manager, and County Commissioner of Precinct 1. Here is the email I received back from TP&W:

I want to assure you that TPWD is working with the City of Liberty and TXDOT to come up with a plan to address the boat ramp in Liberty county. I am working with my agency staff to get the required permits that will allow for the removal of the silt/sand, which is the first step. We will then develop a plan of action to get the sand removed once the permit is received. 

Since this ramp silts in every time the river comes up, the real issue is that the ramp is in a poor location. To address this issue the City of Liberty has applied for a new boating access grant to build a completely new boat ramp on the other side of the river in an area that is less likely to have this issue. When that new ramp is completed TPWD will decommission and close the current boat ramp permanently. 

I appreciate your patience as we figure out a temporary solution to remove the silt/sand from the ramp. Please let me know if you have any questions and I will keep you informed as we make progress. Have a good day.

Thank you,


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## tdgal

I can help, I will take my front-end loader down there and load pick-up trucks with sand/silt plus get some for my yard. I live in Dayton and would take several loads of sand

You think they would mind?
Yes they would cause someone might not be getting their cut !!!!
We drove down there the other day to take a look.
Greenies for keeping this issue in front of the officials.


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## WGA1

Permits to remove the sand sounds crazy. Several years ago TxDOT use to remove the sand on a regular basis after each flood. To the best of my knowledge they never had to wait for a permit. Oh well at least they are addressing the issue. Thanks redexpress for the update.


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## redexpress

tdgal said:


> I can help, I will take my front-end loader down there and load pick-up trucks with sand/silt plus get some for my yard. I live in Dayton and would take several loads of sand
> 
> You think they would mind?
> Yes they would cause someone might not be getting their cut !!!!
> We drove down there the other day to take a look.
> Greenies for keeping this issue in front of the officials.


 That's too easy and makes too much sense to give it to citizens. 
I figured the ramp would be a mess after the flood, but it was worse than I thought.
I've seen "architect drawings" of the new ramp. Not sure what they will end up, with but anything is better than the current situation.


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## redexpress

WGA1 said:


> Permits to remove the sand sounds crazy. Several years ago TxDOT use to remove the sand on a regular basis after each flood. To the best of my knowledge they never had to wait for a permit. Oh well at least they are addressing the issue. Thanks redexpress for the update.


We'll see how it progresses. Not holding my breath though.
The local TXDOT folks are uh, hmm.....I shouldn't say.


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## ChuChu

If your TXDoT people are like my TXDoT people you will grow a long grey beard waiting for them to give an answer.


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## Rivercat1860

Thanks for the update sir.

Red


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## TrinityGarKing

The city never has let civilians remove sand from the ramp. And taking sand away for personal use is a big no no from tpwd. But I think were all to the point we don't care we want the ramp back!


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## redexpress

ChuChu said:


> If your TXDoT people are like my TXDoT people you will grow a long grey beard waiting for them to give an answer.


Yep. I've dealt with ours on other stuff and it wasn't what we were told up front. I don't know if it's incompetence, poor upper management, poor oversight, decision paralysis, no accountability to the public, or all the above.
Yeah, same here: all the above.


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## WGA1

Back when TxDOT cleaned it I was told by an old fella at the ramp that a husband and wife that worked for TxDOT cleaned it. Don't know how true that was but I guess they retired if that was the case.


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## redexpress

I would bet that me and you could go rent a crawler hoe, clean the ramp, and sell the sand faster and cheaper than TXDOT.
I can't imagine who they have to get a permit from. I don't think TRA has anything down here. The way things are these days they will have to have Congressional hearings with the EPA.


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## WGA1

I bet that permit has something to do with that silly regulation about not driving vehicles or ATVs in river beds. Government is way out of control.


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## Momma's Worry

*ramp*

I prefer the bad old days like when a commissioner or mayor ,city council member etc wanted to go fishing or just launch his boat to go for a ride ..
that ramp would get cleaned up quick as in today with what ever machines were at their disposal ..be given priority the good-ole-boy system way of getting things done....and as for the sand ?....whoever wanted it or it went to the county barn....piled up where ever ..no one cares.....

d lawrence
liberty,tx


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## ChuChu

I'm pretty sure they have to get permit from Corps of Engineers. City of Gonzales was cited by CoE for dumping concrete to shore up a bank. When I worked for ARCO pipeline, we had to get a CoE permit to install jetties in the San Marcos River to save a bank from washing out.


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## redexpress

Momma's Worry said:


> I prefer the bad old days like when a commissioner or mayor ,city council member etc wanted to go fishing or just launch his boat to go for a ride ..
> that ramp would get cleaned up quick as in today with what ever machines were at their disposal ..be given priority the good-ole-boy system way of getting things done....and as for the sand ?....whoever wanted it or it went to the county barn....piled up where ever ..no one cares.....
> 
> d lawrence
> liberty,tx


 These days they would likely get indicted.
Oh wait....


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## redexpress

ChuChu said:


> I'm pretty sure they have to get permit from Corps of Engineers. City of Gonzales was cited by CoE for dumping concrete to shore up a bank. When I worked for ARCO pipeline, we had to get a CoE permit to install jetties in the San Marcos River to save a bank from washing out.


 Yep, could be them..


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## texcajun

Sort of like how the ditches all magically got cleaned out just before election day!



Momma's Worry said:


> I prefer the bad old days like when a commissioner or mayor ,city council member etc wanted to go fishing or just launch his boat to go for a ride ..
> that ramp would get cleaned up quick as in today with what ever machines were at their disposal ..be given priority the good-ole-boy system way of getting things done....and as for the sand ?....whoever wanted it or it went to the county barn....piled up where ever ..no one cares.....
> 
> d lawrence
> liberty,tx


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## redexpress

Yesterday I wrote TP&W and TXDOT a fairly bluntly worded email, and cc'ed the usual local politicians. My last request for an update was September 24 with no responses. 
Below is a cut & paste of the email I received from TP&W yesterday:

I apologize for my delay in responding to your request for information. I have been in contact with our TPWD biologists and have found out that there are a variety of permits and a resource reviews that will have to be done on the area due to potential endangered species impact. This will have to be done for either the new or existing ramp sites prior to construction or removal of the silt. I am currently awaiting response from TPWD Inland fisheries division on this issue. When I receive that information and have a clear direction on how to proceed I assure you that I will inform you. Please understand that this may take some additional time if a presence/absence study for mussels has to be done, a plan for their removal if they are found and a Corps of Engineers permit for dredging has to be obtained. 

The long term plan for the existing ramp is for it to be closed all together as soon as the new boat ramp is constructed. I believe that this closure will have to be approved by TXDOT as they actually own the ramp site and right of way. I have also discovered that it may have been TXDOT that had the dumpster there as they are responsible for clean-up and litter removal based on the MOU signed more than 20 years ago. Mr. De Leon with TXDOT may be able to confirm that his agency removed the dumpster?

I appreciate your frustration with the length of time that this is taking and wish that I had an immediate solution, but I do not. I have been in this position for less than six months and cannot speak to anything prior to that. Please do not hesitate to contact me directly with any questions. Have a good day."

I received an email this morning that TP&W will be doing a mussel (zebra?)
survey next week.
I asked if they need all the studies and permits to just remove dry sand from the ramp, no reply yet. 
And for Liberty locals...I didn't write that post on I-dine out. I DID write a reply to it last night that hasn't been posted.


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## ChuChu

Pat yourself on the shoulder because you have tried. As far as the mussels, there is a long list of endangered mussels in Texas.

http://tpwd.texas.gov/huntwild/wild/wildlife_diversity/nongame/listed-species/invertebrates.phtml


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## WGA1

Thanks for the update. Wheels turn unbelievably slow. I may possibly know who wrote to I-dine out. He has been complaining for a very long time if it was him. I find it disturbing that the husband and wife were told only one other person has complained. That is nothing more than a blatant lie or someone is very misinformed.


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## redexpress

WGA1 said:


> Thanks for the update. Wheels turn unbelievably slow. I may possibly know who wrote to I-dine out. He has been complaining for a very long time if it was him. I find it disturbing that the husband and wife were told only one other person has complained. That is nothing more than a blatant lie or someone is very misinformed.


 Yes sir, you and several others I know have complained. 
As a side note, I have cc'ed County Judge Jay Knight, County Commissioner #1 Mike McCarty, Liberty Mayor Carl Pickett, and Liberty City Manager Gary Broz on emails to TXDOT and TP&W since August. I talk to some of them regularly, but not one response from any via email. 
My response to the I-dine out feedback hasn't been posted in 24 hrs. I just wrote another one to them without my name.
I wonder how that husband wife team got connected to an attorney that knows anything about this, and who is that attorney.


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## RAMROD1

Can you put a link? I can't find the post. 


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## redexpress

RAMROD1 said:


> Can you put a link? I can't find the post.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


 http://www.i-dineout.com/

Go over near the left margin in the yellow, and click on "FEEDBACK REPORT". Scroll down a little, the first post is under "GENERAL COMMENTS". I re-wrote a reply yesterday that is now posted. Apparently the owner of the blog, Allen Youngblood, didn't like me posting the email addresses of Albert "Trey" Cooksey at TP&W or Omar De Leon at Liberty TXDOT. Or, maybe he didn't approve of me posting my own name and phone number.

[email protected]

or me:
[email protected]


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## ChuChu

Have you considered contacting one of the TV stations in Houston to do a story on it? Sometimes people get moving if they are embarrassed on TV.


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## redexpress

TV station? No, the local joke is anytime a Houston TV station finds someone in Liberty to interview, they have no teeth, no shirt, wear white rubber boots, and live under the bridge down at the river.
No, seriously, it seems to now be moving along. 
Right now, I'm trying to get an answer about just removing the dry sand on the ramp vs. cleaning/dredging the river. Maybe just removing the dry sand would require less studies/paperwork. But I haven't gotten an answer TP&W yet.
I think we would all be happy to just clean the ramp. We don't need to launch a 28ft deep V offshore boat here.


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## Whitebassfisher

I know you have fought this a long time. Anytime the river levels fluctuates, ramps get left covered with a mess. I fish upstream instead of downstream of the lake, and most ramps up there are private. There are 2 common methods: a tractor with a bucket or a engine powered water pump that draws river water and a fire hose is used to wash down the ramp.

Although an agency should handle this, it might be in your interest to get a few people together that have the right equipment and have a work day. Considering how high the water was and how long it was up, my guess is that it is in bad shape.


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## redexpress

I've thought about doing it myself. But it's been too high profile for a year. I really don't want to pay attorney fees all the legal issues. The ramp is right next to US HWY 90 within the city limits. 
Here is a pick I took after the river went down. This was early August. The ramp is under that sand between those 2 concrete pillars on the left and the Hwy 90 bridge on the right. The ramp starts at the bottom of the picture.


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## RAMROD1

When down there just after the rains the other day to see if I could get the boat in, as we could before, now the rain shed ran right down the ramp and cut big valleys, no way to get to the water without a lot of shovel work! You would think if a little bit of rain could wash away this much sand what could a fire truck and fire drill do?
I need to head back by and see what this water rise s doing. 


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## RAMROD1

Here are a couple pictures taken today (10/29/15) 

































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## Rivercat1860

Yep it's nasty! I went down there yesterday to see about launching.......then I saw the sweet washout from the rain. But I was able to get out the back of the cut this morning. 

Red


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## RAMROD1

I always worry about my vehicle down there. 


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## RAMROD1

Well landed this morning after a 13+ hour flight, headed over to check out the ramp, looks like it will be even worse once the water recedes this time! Unless something changes all this debris will be setting right on the ramp. 

















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## klimitd

looking at the forecast, the trinity is going to flood again this weekend.


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## WGA1

Launched from that grassy area a while back. I'm afraid that ramp is done. All we have now is the cut when the water is high.


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## redexpress

WGA1 said:


> Launched from that grassy area a while back. I'm afraid that ramp is done. All we have now is the cut when the water is high.


I'm afraid you might be right. I wonder if the concrete is still intact.
Of course I haven't heard a word from TP&W about their zebra mussel/invasive species "study". And they work for us.


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