# Honest opinions please - pink - 3 photos



## Koru (Sep 25, 2006)

Again, I'd like your honest opinion. What could I do to make the composition better on each of these three photos?




























_(These too are straight shots without any fiddling; taken late afternoon sun.)_


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## Wading Mark (Apr 21, 2005)

Excellent photography


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## NaClH2O (May 25, 2004)

On the first one, the flower is out of focus and there is something in the top left corner that is distracting. Otherwise, I like it. Try cropping it so the flower is in the top left corner, or close to it. One of the many things I have learned on here is to not put your main subject in the center of the frame, which anyone can do. Placing it somewhere else in the frame should be more interesting to look at.

The second photo is very nice. Good lighting. The only thing I can see that may be wrong is that it may be a little dark. But I think that is just a personal preference.

The third picture is composed very well. Very visually appealing, but it still suffers from what I mentioned about the first one. I think if you crop it so the flower is on the right side of the photo, you'll have a winner.

Just to emphasize what I'm talking about, I've included two pictures. The first is with the subject in the center and the second is with the subject moved out of the center of the frame. I think it makes for a much more interesting pictrue.


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## Koru (Sep 25, 2006)

Glad you loved them Wading Mark.


NaClH20, again, thanks for your comments. This is very insightful and helpful. Thank you.


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## baylvr (Jun 28, 2004)

Breathtaking! I liked the suggestion about moving the center... the bird pic is very beautiful as well!!


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## Dances With Fish (Jul 24, 2006)

I like the contrast of the pictures and the seperation from main to backround images..I also agree with the salty nacho guy


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## richg99 (Aug 21, 2004)

I'm still pretty new at all of this, so take anything that I say with a large grain of salt...

However, I've been reading about the "rule of thirds"...and..it seems to confirm the suggestion that you move the main object away from the center of the picture.

Going all of the way back to the Egyptians ...it is connected to the "Golden Mean" of architecture and furniture construction.....The "rule" seems to be a very accepted method of painting or picture taking.

Here is one Googled reference that I found..

http://www.silverlight.co.uk/tutorials/compose_expose/thirds.html

regards, Rich


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## MsAddicted (Jan 25, 2005)

Good link, thanks Rich. 

Koru, I like the middle image, it's pleasing. Comes a little too close to the edge of the picture at the top though. (but maybe thats just my obsessive compulsive side showing  )


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## NaClH2O (May 25, 2004)

Koru said:


> NaClH20, again, thanks for your comments. This is very insightful and helpful. Thank you.


One of the best ways to learn how to get better is to ask for crticism. I know it has helped me. I'm still nowhere near as good as Rusty and several others here, but at least I have an idea on how to go about making something a little bit more artistic and pleasing to the eye. If you can start to look at taking pictures without placing the subject in the middle of the frame, you'll start to see things in a more artistic way, rather than just taking a picture. I think that is the biggest hurdle. Anybody can learn the technical aspects, but some just have that eye. Others, like me, have to try to develop it while making a lot of mistakes.


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## Koru (Sep 25, 2006)

Me too  But there's fun in the mistakes and learning, yes? 

Thanks for your input everyone, I'm learning a lot and it's much appreciated.

rosesm


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## richg99 (Aug 21, 2004)

Yea.... further regarding the "rule of Thirds"...this site goes more into where the whole idea came from. I guess the Mona Lisa is a good picture to reference....
http://www.camerahobby.com/Ebook-GoldenRatio_Chapter16.htm

"Loosely related to the rule of thirds is the Golden Ratio also referenced to the Golden Rectangle. This is, as far as I am able to decipher from a layperson's perspective, a mathematical look at human aesthetics. Mathematicians seem to love to apply numbers to what seemingly could or should not have numbers applied to them but what do I know, as there are many geniuses out there seeking a single mathematical formula that would explain the nature of the universe and of life itself. Mathematicians have even come up with a formula for the human decision-making process, better known as Game Theory or the Zero Sum Gain.

The Golden Ratio has purportedly been a profound influence since ancient times with Greeks utilizing the Golden Ratio in their buildings such as the Parthenon at the Temple of Athena on the Acropolis. During the Renaissance when European artists rediscovered the styles of the ancient world, the Golden Ratio was utilized for their sculptures and paintings. Leonardo da Vinci being the most prominent Renaissance artist known to have used the Golden Ratio for great works such as the Mona Lisa."


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## galbayfisher (May 28, 2004)

*you're on your way*

1) Does your camera allow you to manually focus? The buds on the left are in focus but the area before them and the flower behind them are out of focus. The buds that are in focus represent what is known as the depth of focus. Now there is an area in front of those buds and before you get to the flowers which would be in focus as well. This is known as your depth of field. This "field" in front and behind the focus is controlled by your aperture. If your camera allows you to control this as well, you need to shut the aperture down, like squinting your eyes. Numerically, it's like going from f/8 to f/11 or 16 etc. However, you start with your subject in focus first and then control the depth of that focus with the aperture.

Also, their is a nice line that runs from bottom left to top right that is represented by the flowers in the pictures which are out of focus. Notice how your eye comfortably follows that line until it gets to the buds which are in focus. You inadvertantly made the buds the "center" of your composition. Throws you off. Don't necessarily agree with not putting your subject in the center. It depends how you frame and compose.

2) Nice shot but lacks sharpness and a little more color saturation. Take a look at your shot I've played with. Best shot of all three.

3) Couldn't tell what you were trying to show us or tell us with that shot. Can't really see the flower. Buds all around. Then with all the out of focused flowers surrounding the main flower shot as a profile, there appears to be a big mass of color which takes up almost 2/3 of the shot. Would have looked for something a little more focused in the shot. It was just too busy. I looked at the shot and pulled something out of it.

Hope this helps.


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## Koru (Sep 25, 2006)

RichG Thank you for the link and the information, I'm devouring it now.   I just took my camera outside to play with the golden rectangle and am surprised at the photos I took. They're very interesting. 

galbayfisher, wow, just wow. What you did looks wonderful and thank you for your suggestions. I will print off your number 1 and look through my camera with it and see if it's possible to do what you say (it's a fairly basic digital camera but does have the ability to do some tweaking in different areas).

Thank you both for taking the time to comment.

rosesm


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## Koru (Sep 25, 2006)

just from a quick practise while the sun was out and after reading these thoughts...


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## NaClH2O (May 25, 2004)

It looks like you're starting to get the hang of it Koru. Remember, you don't necessarily have to put your main subject off to the side. For example, I think your second photo would be better served with the flower in the middle of the bottom of the photo. I know, that would put it in the middle, but it still wouldn't be directly in the center of the frame. That would then lead your eye up to the vertical leaves behind it. As for the technical aspects, I think they're very good. I've found that photgraphing white flowers can be difficult. Getting the exposures on both the flower and the surroundings correct can be problematic, but it looks like you did very well.

I love the composition of the first photo. Very appealing to look at and it holds my interest for a long time.

Your third photo is missing something. I don't know what, though. It has the right idea, but the right side seems vacant, even though you have something interesting in the background. Looking at what surrounds the rose, it may be better served by being placed in the middle, with the rosebuds surrounding it. I know it goes against everything we've been telling you in this thread, but in this case it may just work because the rose will be surrounded by other things that keep the overall picture entertaining. But this is one of those areas that I'm still struggling to get right myself, so I may just be confusing you at this point. I think the main thing I've learned is to do something other just take a picture of a bird, or a flower, or an insect and add other elements to that subject so there are multiple things to look at. You are definitely learning quickly, though. Keep up the good work.

By the way, you have some beautiful flowers.


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## Guest (Nov 24, 2006)

Photo #1:
Now I sure ain't no expert, but to my eye, when the center of interest is moved out of the center (I think I read somewhere that a good rule of thumb is around 1/3 from the center.) I like to see the image be on the left side. Does anyone else have a 'which side' bias? (Maybe this is a dominant eye or hand thing?) Does the yellow day lilly appeal more or less if the photograph was flipped, or does it even matter?

Photo #2:
This is my favorite of the three. It is enough off center, left & down, and everything is in focus.

Photo #3:
I think this one is a bit weak because everything to the right is out of focus. This might be an example of where centering might be better, simply because maybe the background would be 'out of focus balanced' all around. (?)

All of these are well above my (and my camera's) competence level!
~ You're doing good, kid! rosesm



:rybka:


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## Dances With Fish (Jul 24, 2006)

Very nice KORU...Your advancing like a walgreens photo studio"ready in 1 hour"


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## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

as galbayfisher suggested, use manual focus, when you can, koru.


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## RustyBrown (May 29, 2004)

*Chuckle...*

I like the part about "Honest" opinions wanted. Kevin is absolutely right about asking for opinions. I have about four boards I post on regularly and positive feedback is great, but there is certianly such a thing as "good" negative feedback.

That said on #1 the first concern was "what is the subject?". My eyes want to say it's th flower in the center, but the buds are in sharper focus. The are also alot of distractions in the shot. Kevin did a great job of illustrating the rule of thirds and it looks like you've got the hang of it.

#2 good stuff. I like the low angle of the light and it has a nice, warm color to it. Rather than shooting a profile as you did in the other two shots, this has a much greater feeling of texture and depth. Good job.

#3 See the comments for #1.

#4 Ah, progress...galbayfisher's comments come into play here. It's distracting to me that the nearest petal of the lilly is out of focus. The fix would be a smaller f/stop > shutter speed and possibly a tripod while wishing for a lack of wind. The pods in the forground are a distraction and a little less profile on that one would help as well IMHO.

#5 Love the iris shot...maybe too close to the left edge and bottom and maybe a little overexposed, but I definitely like it.

#6 I think it's the bud right in the middle of the frame that's in focus that's making it look like there's just dead space to the right. Still a big improvement in a short period of time.

A few comments on the rule of thirds...it applies to most shooting situations, but not all. I think the reason it's sucessfull is that it brings balance to the image, the viewer has to actively search for the subject and it demonstrates the photographer has confidence and took time to compose the shot.

Here's and example that it might not work so well on...


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## Dances With Fish (Jul 24, 2006)

nice one rusty


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## MsAddicted (Jan 25, 2005)

Koru, very nice! You are doing all this with a little digital? I havent found all those settings on mine yet


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## Koru (Sep 25, 2006)

Thanks for more comments!  I'm learning so much I can't believe it. lol It's great!

I have been hunting for a 'manual focus' and it's become obvious I need to learn more about the camera. It is just a little digital and it has things that I don't understand, yet. There is one option on some settings that allows for 'multi-focus' or 'centre-focus', I can't find a manual focus setting on it anywhere. The majority of these close-up photos I do are done with the 'close-up' setting that has a default of 'multi-focus'. Maybe I need to take some more shots and carefully compare the difference between the end results of multi and centre focusing.

It might just be that I have to learn to take photos that are within this camera's ability as it's not likely I'll be getting a fancy camera any time soon.

Having said that, while I wait for my ship to come in lol, I still have a lot to learn about the basics of what this camera can do and about looking carefully at what I am photographing.

You are all very much appreciated. 

rosesm


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## richg99 (Aug 21, 2004)

Koru...Normally the "Manual Focus " has to do with DISTANCE from the subject...and "Auto Focus"..also determines the distance...but automatically.

"Multi-focus" and "Center or Spot Focus" refer to WHERE the camera "LOOKS"
to choose a spot on which to focus. 

So, your camera settings for "multi" and "spot" or "centre" choices would NOT normally be where you would find MANUAL/AUTO focus adjustments. They will be separate adjustments.

If you tell us exactly what camera you have, we may be able to look up the manual on the internet and help you further. 
regards, Rich


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## Koru (Sep 25, 2006)

Thanks Rich, I can't find it anywhere - I think there's not the option for 'manual'.

It is a Kodak Easy Share C360.


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## richg99 (Aug 21, 2004)

OK It appears that you do not have a pure "manual "focus but you do have a number of selections to use...

From the Kodak review
*Auto focus*TTL-AF, continuous AF, single AF*Auto focus selection*multi-zone, center zone*Focus range*Standard: 2 ft (0.6 m) - infinity 
Close-up: wide - 2 - 28 in. (0.05 - 0.7 m) 
Close-up: tele - 9 - 28 in. (0.22 - 0.7 m) 
Infinity: 33 ft (10 m) - infinity


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## richg99 (Aug 21, 2004)

I don't know if that information will help...but I'd guess "center zone" choice ( picks a particular PART of your subject) and one of the other 4 choices might get you whatever you want.

You might want to take 8 pictures with exactly the same subject..
One each with "center zone" focus in each of the four choices and then One each with "Multi zone" focus with each of the other four settings. You will quickly see how, at a particular distance and subject...they differ.

Have fun experimenting...It is nice not to have to wait and print everything out just to see where you messed up, isn't it?? regards, Rich


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## Koru (Sep 25, 2006)

It sure is nice not to wait and print out. 

Thank you for your help dear. I will print out what you've shown me and will practise when I've got some more time this weekend. Your help is appreciated.

rosesm


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## Shed Hunter (Mar 14, 2006)

*Help*

Koru, you are really getting the hang of your camera. All the help this forum has given you is right on. Keep up the good work and have lots lf fun. Sure beats watching TV. LOL. 
SH


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## RedXCross (Aug 7, 2005)

Looks good Karen!! Nice job


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## dixie lee (Apr 14, 2006)

i know im just a kid and probaly dont know anything about photography but those pictures are great my faveorites are the 1st and 2nd ones!

love-dixie


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## Koru (Sep 25, 2006)

TV be hanged.  You're right SH, playing with a camera is MUCH more fun! 

Glad you like them RedXCross 

Dixie Lee, don't you ever use that expression with me young lady. grrrrrr Just a kid! Huh! You are no way JUST A KID! You, my dear, are dynamite-wonderful!, awesomely-special! and one heck of a gal!  And, I'm honoured that you popped by and offered your opinion. Thank you. *hug*

I appreciate EVERYONE's comments on anything I do. You see, you ALL make me think and work harder and grow and those aren't bad things. They're jolly good. 

I'm having a bit of trouble figuring out the focussing options on this camera. If I get too close in the 'close-up' mode then it's hard to make the camera focus to one area that isn't centre or beside the centre. I have to do a little half press on the 'take a photo' button in order to get f2.7 1/60 or several (three I think) varying measurements depending on what I'm shooting.

But here's three to show from this morning (the Kiwi Thanksgiving cooking smells are driving me from the kitchen! Too yummy and making my tummy rumble! lol ).


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## Guest (Nov 26, 2006)

WOW! You are a quick learner! The first and second shots are very sharp. My favorite is the first because I like the way the leaf behind the flower bends and lends interest. ~ I find the third shot a bit 'busy' compared to the others. kisssm

I hope you are taking plenty of kitchen shots of the "First Kiwi Thanksgiving". Everyone is rooting for Nicole to do our tradition proud. ~ Did you invite any Maori?


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## Koru (Sep 25, 2006)

Sorry, I'm just trying to resize the pictures. Somebody who shall remain nameless Not! (son) used up all our high speed bandwidth and it's taking me a month of Sundays to resize the photos.. grr

I'm taking plenty of shots of empty kitchen! The cook keeps disappearing lol It's funny as anything to watch.  She's never cooked something so big by herself before but I tell you the smells are just wafting through the house and dragging us all closer and closer to the kitchen.  I'm taking photos all right 

No I didn't invite any Maori... my sis-in-law is Maori and if she got into the kitchen she wouldn't leave anything for anyone else! lol (Actually, I thought I'd give our student a break. The whole! family will be here for our Christmas, this Kiwi Thanksgiving is just for us and our student. Here in NZ Christmas day is The-Family Get-Together-Day (big gathering), so it will be something a little different for our student to experience. 

More photos on the way when I get a chance to resize them. 

rosesm


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## Koru (Sep 25, 2006)

Three more:

Dietes Bi-Colour among Red Flax:









Australian Frangipani:









Rose, The Fairy:


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## richg99 (Aug 21, 2004)

Hmmmm ...You should be able to resize the photos right in your own computer, whether it is connected to the internet or not. If you'd like, you can download for free .... ( I know the downloading will take a connection to the internet ONCE ).....an automatic resizer from Microsoft for Windows XP ( and maybe other version of Windows too) at

http://www.Microsoft.com/Windows XP/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx

Once the program is installed, you just Right-Click on the photo; select "resize"; and do it in your own computer.... before attempting to send it anywhere. That should save you some bandwidth. 
regards, Rich

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx


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## Koru (Sep 25, 2006)

Thank you for your help Rich.  I put the resizer onto my machine (yesterday) and went and loaded these photos onto photobucket today before I remembered what I'd done yesterday. *rolling eyes*

I will try out the 'resizer' with the next lot of pics I take - maybe tomorrow.

(We usually have plenty of bandwidth, it's just that a couple of movies were downloaded _and_ telecom changed their internet plan and the mixture of the two caught me unawares).


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## grayfish (Jul 31, 2005)

I really like the last three pictures. Ya done good.


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## galbayfisher (May 28, 2004)

*another 2 cents*

1) Focusing.


























the reason the first two don't work as well is because there is no definitive subject for viewer to focus on...too busy. That's why the white lilly works so well. the lilly is in focus (partly) and retains your attention irregardless of the out of focus color behind it. Also, try a landscape shot like you've been doing and focus on a flower in the far right hand corner with everything in front of it out of focus.

2) Composition
Two of your pictures show great form


















Notice how your flowers are complimented by the leaves around them. Their is harmony of structure and is pleasing to the eye. Two great shots.
3) Composition, framing.










In my opinion, the best shot of anything you've posted to date. The leaves have your subject beautifully framed. Your eye has no choice but to be drawn straight to the flower. Also, in composing with color and creating contrast, you have used one of the tools which can be so powerful, the use of basically only using 2-3 colors in your shot. It brings out so much in a compostion and truly can make a statement which you did with the above shot.

little departing shots....

- get you a digital single lens reflex camera (dslr). Ask the folks on this website what they suggest. The reason i say this is because it's hard to truly compose shots without them. Things to look for are manual mode to include aperture, shutter, focus and iso. Check out ebay.You may need to get you a tripod too for good sharp pictures.

- keep trying. you'll only get better and better. The great thing about digital is that you can see right away how your picture comes out and make adjusments.

- thanks for your posts as it has helped me to really look at your photos and see how I can improve my pictures as well.

- in my opinion, you're starting to take photographs...not pictures. keep up the good work.


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## galvetraz (Nov 29, 2005)

*p & s*

I think the white flower in pic 3 could have used a little better pistol and stamen.


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