# Track in West Houston



## wily

Mannnnn, I see alot of people in the cypress-katy area. We need to get a track started in West houston.

A buddy of mine has an idea to get the county/city involved. He has a mbx5/novak conversion. I will twist his arm to get him on this forum. I dont think it will take much to make use of his marketing degree. 

Anyone interested?

Will


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## Guffinator

Wasn't someone talking about this on here a while back?


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## Courtney Vaughan

I already talked with Jason&#8230;&#8230;.he has my support.


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## kstoracing

I saw in a mag years ago that some people petitioned and got the city they were in to throw a few bones their way. They found a location and all that jazz. I think the key is to know someone on the council. I am not sure if it was already part of a park but i believe it was. Maybe since Sugarland has that little BMX section already there it would be the easiest place, that I know of, to convert. Oyster Creek is it?

One of us need to run for Mayor...lol.


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## LT280z

I would highly recomend checking out the link...It has been done but apparently takes some serious effort and time. The oldest track in the country is at a park in my home town.
http://www.rctech.net/forum/racing-forum/218061-tracks-park-rec-land.html

If you search "Park land" in the electric and nitro offroad forums you will find tons of info.


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## cjtamu

Wily, if you're talking about anything in the Barker Reservoir, forget about it. It's difficult to do in any existing park unless theress an amenity they're getting rid of, because all that space is already spoken for. The BMX track in S'Land would be nice, but they're already fielding noise complaints from the neighbors so it may not work. The key is to get onto the master plan while they're land planning the park. I had already met with the city years ago and had us in line to do that in Pearland, but THRC fell apart and an active local club/community like that was one of the keys to the deal. Discussions with S'Land a year or so ago stopped due to family reasons.

However, a track in a community park is doable. There are a lot of things involved. I still have my notes, etc. from discussions with Pearland and Sugar Land, as well as with potential insurers, Gears RC (the track in Harlingen is city owned and leased back to them). Liked I said last week, I'm working on a proposal that we can present when we find a suitable location.


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## Gary

West sider here too!


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## nik77356

While it may not be city land, I know a while back 3 Palms was interested in putting an R/C track on their property.


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## LT280z

http://www.katyrc.org/


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## cypressvendetta

A west houston track would great


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## nik77356

nik77356 said:


> While it may not be city land, I know a while back 3 Palms was interested in putting an R/C track on their property.


Sorry, forgot we were talking about West Houston. LOL


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## kstoracing

Where is 3palms anyway....lol?


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## kstoracing

I guess the noise restriction would be during the night hours. Like a dorm room's quiet hours...lol.


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## nik77356

It's off of 45 by The Woodlands mall


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## Gary

I thought 3palms was a MX track?


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## epfalzer

3 palms is a motocross facility with multiple mx tracks. There are 3 full motocross tracks, 2 peewee tracks, and a supercross track. The reason this is such a great idea though is for 2009 they are making a BIG push to transform from the hard core mx racing scene to a more family oriented facility. There is definitely no shortage of land out there and I'm betting if we make a convincing presentation it might work out. 

Chris, since you have done all the leg work and if you have the time give Emil a call and see if he is receptive to the idea. I have no idea of the cost for a timing system but most of the other pieces to the puzzle are already there i.e. land, dirt!!!!, electricity, water, camper hook ups, porta cans, lights, dirt moving equipment etc.

It's worth a shot, I don't know Emil personally but he has a great reputation in the MX community and hopefully will at least lend an ear

Emil C. Shebelbon II
Three Palms Extreme Sports Park
Extreme Sports Entertainment
track line 936-321-8725
cell 281-702-2609


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## mmorrow

What is wrong with Mikes for those of you that live on the north side? They have spent more than any of us can imagine to make a first class track. You guys kill me.
If I am not mistaken 3 palms is like 20 mins from Mikes. What purpose would that serve? 
If you do not like Mikes I do not know what would make you happy. You can race at Mikes every Saturday at 11:00 am except for HARC races at the River Track. All it takes is racers. No need for Tables, chairs, trailers, etc.


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## mmorrow

I do not understand the point of the race the 14th at M&M. I talked to Meir this week. What a waste of time. I agree with CV on this one. He said for anyone who runs 1/8 scale and likes dirt that will be the people who he will ****** off. You really think he cares. yea right.


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## Courtney Vaughan

I think it just got kind of veered farther North of town......the discussion that has been going around is for a track centered near Katy. We all love Mike's, and I'm the first to tell anyone that they are a national level facility. I think a bunch of us guys who race live out near Katy and if a track were less than 30 minutes from us, then we could actually get some practice. For me, personally, to go to Mike's or the River is at least a 1/2 day event.......which, for the most part, I can't spare. I guess we're all thinking it wuold be nice to just be able to squeeze in a little practice for 2-3 hours on a weekday or a Sunday or something.


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## cjtamu

Mark, the point of the March 14 race is to get out, have some fun, and not drive 2 hours round trip to do it. Beyond that, no point. Like to have some place to practice/race occasionally on the west/sw side of town. Love Mike's, but like CV said it turns in to a 1/2 day or more event just to get up there to practice by the time you're done. 

EP, what you're talking about at 3 palms is a completely different scenario. He owns that land doesn't he? I have a friend that races there pretty regularly and is also about to start running RC again. Doesn't he want to do it just as an amenity to help the family friendly atmosphere for kids etc. that aren't racing? Be happy to give him a call to talk about it. But it doesn't help those of us that live on the west/sw side, LOL.


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## Guffinator

I'm actually in agreement with Mark on this. A track in the Woodlands? Why bother, Mikes is a kick-***** track that's not much further out.


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## wily

Mike's is great! and a nice facility to boot. If I were to decide to drive north to practice, it would be to Mike's.

A track in West Houston would be awesome tho.

Will


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## GoFaster

I bet everyone wishes they could have a track close to them. lol I say put one in Sugar Land............cuz that's where I live.


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## cjtamu

GoFaster said:


> I bet everyone wishes they could have a track close to them. lol I say put one in Sugar Land............cuz that's where I live.


Then just leave your fence down. We'll start building one on the levees this weekend.


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## SwayOveride

I love reading this "I want a track near me, NO, I want a track near me, NO, I want a track near me" HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


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## mmorrow

exactly, One on the other side of town ok, but 20 mins away from Mikes and no one wins. I have said for years about getting one on the west side, but no one seems to have the right connections nor the time and money. I will be all over helping with the efforts, but not at M&M. sorry Chris.


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## kstoracing

I can't make to the river tonight so i have to settle for m&m. It's the closetest. If the river is popping off every Friday I will try and make it next Friday.


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## mmorrow

Mikes is racing tomorrow if yall show up!


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## wily

I used to work at MM 20 years ago. Not mutch has changed.


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## cjtamu

Mark, if we can get a permanent track in on the west or southwest side then M&M is a non-issue. Good chance that decision's going to be made for us anyway.


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## mmorrow

correct
but he never was an issue


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## kstoracing

What ever happened to that track in Pearland? I think it was linked to clarke's. I think that land value in pearland is exspensive though. We could do like these golf courses and re capture an old landfill or dump...lol. If any of us win the lottery I'd expect some tracks to go up...lol.


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## xtermenator

Whatever happened to the talk about putting in a track at that R/C air field on the westside? 
Can't argue about the caliber of Mike's track, but I think some people would like to have a track to just practice on and not have to race. 
Not eveybody on here are racers. Just my.02 worth.


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## xtermenator

I couldn't agree more with Mark and CV..I wouldn't send my ex-wife to run at M&M.


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## Gary

mmorrow said:


> exactly, One on the other side of town ok, but 20 mins away from Mikes and no one wins. I have said for years about getting one on the west side, but no one seems to have the right connections nor the time and money. I will be all over helping with the efforts, but not at M&M. sorry Chris.


Man do I miss Performance!


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## GoFaster

I would make one in my back yard, but i don't think the neighbors would like that too much. Don't think I haven't thought about it....then again, I don't want to doing a whole bunch of shoveling.


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## nolatron

xtermenator said:


> Whatever happened to the talk about putting in a track at that R/C air field on the westside?


We didn't really get a whole lot of response on that idea due to the costs involved. We got a lot of feedback from people who wanted a track there, but only a handful were actually willing to pay the membership fees that would be used to build it. Times are tough right now for some so we can't blame them. I'd rather have a free public track too! 

Ideally a county/city supported track would be best. We did get a bit of interest shown from Precinct Three's Walt Peckham (Precinct Coordinator) on the idea and sent him some general information.

I'd personally like to see the huge Scobee Park at George Bush turned into a general R/C Facility.

Shaun
http://www.katyrc.org


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## cjtamu

ksto, the Pearland track fell apart b/c of problems b/w the operator and the owner (BMX track). They still own the land, but Arnie has no interest in having another RC track there. I would never build a track on leased land. Same thing happened to S.side. K&M was also leased, but little different situation. Simply wasn't drawing enough business anymore to make it viable. Other tracks have closed b/c they weren't profitable or couldn't be written off anymore. It could even happen to a track on property that's owned. You build a track for fun on your property and year and a half later someone offers you twice market value for the land? What do you do?

It's one of the really attractive things about a public track. If it gets built, and it gets used, it will be there. Or, maybe we'll finally get that west side privately-owned track in. Snowmonkey, you out there? Ha ha ha ha ha.


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## sleebus.jones

cjtamu said:


> Or, maybe we'll finally get that west side privately-owned track in.


That could still happen. All it'd take would be about 20 people to join space city RC.


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## mmorrow

Any body have any contacts with George Bush Scobee field?


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## cjtamu

Mark, is George Bush the park inside Barker Reservoir? Corps has pretty much put a hiatus on new development in the reservoir unless theyve changed their mind recently. I can certainly find out.


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## mmorrow

I am not sure Chris. It is close to Hwy6 across form westoaks mall.


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## Gary

mmorrow said:


> Any body have any contacts with George Bush Scobee field?


Mark. Did I pizz you off somewere along the lines over the years? I said hi on another thread and you ignored me. I tried to holla at you again on this thread and once again was ignored. I'm confused. We go back alot of years and am not quit sure why why your not responding.

To answer your question, yes some of us do. Building a track there at Scobee wont happen. Building a track anywhere within George Bush park wont happen. And Bush park is within the Barker reservior which is reserved as a wild life sanctuary. Aint gonna happen and with the current economicle outlook, the chance of somebody fronting the funds to build a track is next to zero.

There is an alternative though. Building an outlaw track. I know the place and the how. The issues though is we would have to build the track ourselves and in no way could we run Nitro because of the noise. And we would have to pack in a few hundred yards into the woods along the Anthills. The area is near Wilcrest and Buffalo Buyou.

Another alternative is in a big parking lot with permission.


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## JustinK

Gary said:


> Mark. Did I pizz you off somewere along the lines over the years? I said hi on another thread and you ignored me. I tried to holla at you again on this thread and once again was ignored. I'm confused. We go back alot of years and am not quit sure why why your not responding.
> 
> To answer your question, yes some of us do. Building a track there at Scobee wont happen. Building a track anywhere within George Bush park wont happen. And Bush park is within the Barker reservior which is reserved as a wild life sanctuary. Aint gonna happen and with the current economicle outlook, the chance of somebody fronting the funds to build a track is next to zero.
> 
> There is an alternative though. Building an outlaw track. I know the place and the how. The issues though is we would have to build the track ourselves and in no way could we run Nitro because of the noise. And we would have to pack in a few hundred yards into the woods along the Anthills. The area is near Wilcrest and Buffalo Buyou.
> 
> Another alternative is in a big parking lot with permission.


Is that next to the "out law" BMX jumps back off the bike trail?


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## Gary

JustinK said:


> Is that next to the "out law" BMX jumps back off the bike trail?


I'm thinking above and to the right of the bowl and those jumps so not to get in the way of the cyclists there. It's mostly clay and should yield some good traction.

Probably a bad idea though. Just tossing something out for a brain storming session.


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## mmorrow

No "Biff" it is all cool. Sorry about the lack of replies. 
Where did you get the info from about GW park? I am not doubting you I just want to make sure I am not chasing the same rabbit. 
As far as outlaw tracks that would defeat the hole purpose of growing our exposure and interest in the hobby. kind of like Performance day. you just had to know someone vs a casual drive by with interest


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## mmorrow

Have I ever met the person in charge of the Katy rc club? Do you know me?


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## Gary

mmorrow said:


> No "Biff" it is all cool. Sorry about the lack of replies.
> Where did you get the info from about GW park? I am not doubting you I just want to make sure I am not chasing the same rabbit.
> As far as outlaw tracks that would defeat the hole purpose of growing our exposure and interest in the hobby. kind of like Performance day. you just had to know someone vs a casual drive by with interest


Ill post tommarow bro. I get up at 3:00 am and wanna be fresh for a full explaination of what we have tried here on this forum.

Good to talk to you again.


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## xtermenator

Why does it have to be a club with big dues up front at Space City R/C? Thats the problem! People don't want to dish out $150 or $200 to get started. The little track I have has all been done with donations from the guys that want to run here. The important thing is to get started and build on it. We get stuff as we can, it looked like **** to start with but we have got pipping(guys buy 100' rolls as they can)for lanes and some dirt for jumps. We get our dirt free from a guy that knows 1 of the guys that runs here. I let others run her but the guys who run regularly chip in with time and materials.


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## nolatron

xtermenator said:


> Why does it have to be a club with big dues up front at Space City R/C? Thats the problem! People don't want to dish out $150 or $200 to get started.


Yup, we know that. The club has high fees because they own the land and have to pay a few thousand in property taxes every year, plus the up-keep of the facilities. But this idea has pretty much died because of the costs involved to people. It would be a great location to build a track, but would costly to do so.

Then again, if you want to build a decently sized track properly with the proper clay/sand soil, barriers, driver stand, etc... you're still looking needing a few thousand dollars regardless of where you build. It just depends on how fancy you want to get.



> The little track I have has all been done with donations from the guys that want to run here.


So where is this track at? 



> The important thing is to get started and build on it.


We'd love to, but I think the problem everyone here has is not having a place to build on. That's why we pitched the Space City idea, because they were giving us land in return for joining the club.

I would easily fork up some cash to build a track near my house in in Katy if I had a free 1/2 acre plot of land to do so, but I think I stand a better chance of getting hit by lightning....twice. :cloud:


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## nolatron

cjtamu said:


> Mark, is George Bush the park inside Barker Reservoir? Corps has pretty much put a hiatus on new development in the reservoir unless theyve changed their mind recently. I can certainly find out.


About 7 ago months we talked to Steve Dorman I believe, the precinct 3 Park Superintendent and he said the Corp had new projects on hold while they were reviewong some "20-year plan" or something for the reservoir.


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## nolatron

mmorrow said:


> Have I ever met the person in charge of the Katy rc club? Do you know me?


I doubt it. And we're not really a club either. My friend and I just put together a site to generate interest from other katy area drivers wanting a track out here.


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## mmorrow

I know of 3 every weekend racers in Katy. Myself, Jason Branham, and Gary Gutler (who owned Southside). We have the resources and the knowledge to make it happen. Just need the right place with cheap rent. less than 400 a month. A city park would be perfect as far a rent goes.


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## nolatron

mmorrow said:


> I know of 3 every weekend racers in Katy. Myself, Jason Branham, and Gary Gutler (who owned Southside). We have the resources and the knowledge to make it happen. Just need the right place with cheap rent. less than 400 a month. A city park would be perfect as far a rent goes.


Yup. I check HAR.com every now and then for commercial land leases, but out here in Katy (and the surrounding area) it's just ridiculous to see how much they cost. It's thousands for just an acre.


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## cjtamu

Mark, I'll call some people I know at the Corps and verify, but it's pretty unlikely. I have a project right now where I need ROW through the reservoir and it's pulling hen's teeth. There are other options, say b/w the Hwy6/90A intersection to a little north of 1-10/Hwy 6. Maybe off of 99. I have a client that's going to donate some land for a park, but it's going to be too far south for the Katy crowd. Somewhere mid-way b/w Katy and S'Land would be primo IMO. If you do it in a public park lease is minimal, the money you're talking about could be used for upkeep, insurance, etc. I'm swamped this weekend, wife out of town, I'm coaching, and I have a box full of depos to read through before a meeting Monday. I'll review my notes from talks with Pearland and Sugar Land and hit you up later in the week. PM your e-mail to me, I had it but my computer's being repaired.


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## Gary

Some of yall I don't know and have been so busy lately I haven't said hello and welcome to 2Cool. Ill introduce myself. Obviously my name is Gary but in the RC world back in the day my nickname was Biff. Long story how that started and even more boring might be how a worldwide team of allmost 500 members was formed. A cliff's note version of the Biff Racing Team's mission statement was to grow the hobby, help the noobs and hold charity races.

I have raced off and on for 16 years and developed a passion to grow the hobby of RC Car racing when Houston RC closed down back in 95 or whenever it was. I remember seeing 125 entries at every club race and when K&M re-opened, I remember TQing stock buggy when there was a "G" main on a club night. 

So what happened? Where did everybody go? Did the cost of racing get too high? What happened?

There wasn't a lack of tracks back then. K&M was still hanging and Performance Raceway opened with the help of Richard Oliver who soon sold it to Jorge Tabush. But now both of these tracks are gone and I think I know why. Performance Raceway screwed up when we moved the offroad track outdoors and brought the onroad indoors and I am partly to blame. I agreed it was a good idea at the time since I switched over to 12th and TC. For anybody that ran that old indoor offroad track can vouch that was probably the highest traction track in the US. We ran slicks and never watered the track. Thats how much traction we had.

K&M failed because of indoor 1/8 scale Nitro cars and trucks. The smoke was so thick you couldn't breath and couldn't see the track from your pit. Bad idea having indoor nitro racing, but what choice did they have? Thats what the new racer wanted to run and they were forced to adapt or fold. They folded.

Lets face some hard truths here. Some of yall will dissagree with me and one or two might not. 8th scale 4 wheel drive is "NOT" a finesse drivers ride of choice. It's all about the noise, too much power and miles of suspension travel with the forgiveness of a wet rag hitting the floor. Did I mention how expensive 8th scale is? 

I won't sit here and blame 8th scale cars for the decline in tracks and how many racers there are. What I am saying is that racing is becoming cost prohibitive and taking up more real estate than it did 10-15 years ago. 

I have a question. Is it imperative that what yall want in a west side track limited to 1/8th scale cars, driving stands, expensive insurance and memberships?

Or is it possible to find a field somewhere, build a track for less expensive cars like 18th scale?


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## nolatron

Gary said:


> I have a question. Is it imperative that what yall want in a west side track limited to 1/8th scale cars, driving stands, expensive insurance and memberships?


For me, yes and no. I'd want a track on the west side simply to cut down on the commute needed to get to the current tracks., but it doesn't need to be a track "facility". Some piles of dirt roughly layed in some track form would be fine for me if it's within 15-20 mins.

Lost Creek Park is a 30-40 min drive for a bmx track. This is where my friend and I currently go. Mikes Hobby is about an hour away if you get lucky on I10/i45/us59 traffic. I've been there once or twice. River Track, google says two hours. I'll never see that track because it's simply too far. M&M's track is usually in such poor condition and too small for 8th scale so we don't even consider it.

I'm not a racer. I simply like to take my r/c cars out to a track or someplace with some good jumps have fun running around. This is why we like Lost Creek so much. A good combination of hills to bash on. This is all my friends and I need.



> Or is it possible to find a field somewhere, build a track for less expensive cars like 18th scale?


I run two 8th scale cars converted to brushless (Can't stand Nitros), so I naturally would want to see a track made for 8th scale. The HIRCR does indoor 18th scale racing currently, and is located near I-10 and the beltway.


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## Gary

nolatron said:


> The HIRCR does indoor 18th scale racing currently, and is located near I-10 and the beltway.


Not anymore. Only MiniZs everyother Thursday night.


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## nolatron

Gary said:


> Not anymore. Only MiniZs everyother Thursday night.


Oops. Didn't know they changed.


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## Gary

nolatron said:


> Oops. Didn't know they changed.


It was a part time thing with Trey. It's alot of work moving everything out of the showroom, setting up and tearing down the track and he burns out easily, or more like gets into other hobbies as I do to.  This week it could be RC cars, next week Mountain biking or photography...lol

This is the deal yall. Here on the west side there aint even a hobby shop let alone the chance of getting an organized track. Especially for 1/8 scale which requires major investments. Putting together an outlaw 18th scale unorganized track would be very easy to do in the dirt. Putting together just about any kind of parking lot racing is even easier and it wouldn't be an outlaw track. We have permission to run there and we have had organized Drag Racing there. 2.1 seconds, 56.3 mph in 132' was me! 

There are plenty of options for the west side. I just dont see any big time racing coming here at all.


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## mmorrow

You can race your little cars at M&M. JK : ) just ask Ron. I think he is the little car champ
I understand where you are coming from Gary, but the majority rules and 1/8 scale is king. Although the 1/10 slashes are making a splash. To fill the needs I feel it would take a 1/8 track. Like I said I have access to almost everything we would need to have a fully operational track except LAND.


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## kstoracing

I practice 1:8 at M&M, It's built for 1:10 but a few 1:8's can fit. If I was only into bashing lost creek would be fine, but I invested a little too much to just putt around. If I break something at least it be in the sake of practicing to get better...lol.

I wish the was a closer alternative to MM. But for me to drive 20 min practice for 2 hours and be back home before I get into too much trouble is paramount for me. I could go for a make shift 10th track on or off road. Dieing to get my TC3 back to operational. 

Anyone has a sport brushless ready to let go? I plan to go to Randy's one day soon.


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## Guffinator

kstoracing said:


> Anyone has a sport brushless ready to let go? I plan to go to Randy's one day soon.


Well if you make it out be sure to give me a shout. I'm the really ugly dude with the Orange 'Cuda


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## kstoracing

Will do, btw I try not to judge, I ain't too cute myself. Wife said it was cheaper to keep me...lol.


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## cjtamu

Gary, we don't need any "big time" racing in W/SW Houston. We just need a track to practice/play on, maybe run an occasional club race on. The BMX track in S'Land is pretty much off limits these days. That means a 2 hour round trip from Katy or S'Land right now just to practice. Bleah. I'd like to see the 1/10 come back because one, I like it, and 2, it's so much cheaper that I think you'd see more young drivers. Lot easier to sell a $250 RTR electric to a parent than a $600 nitro.


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## kstoracing

Actually, both will cost you about 500+. Nitro hits you wuth the initial sticker shock $500 for a Nitro RTR, while 200 for a electric. Electric catches back up when it comes to the periphirals. Charger, batteries, ESC, Lipo, brushless. etc. Nitro RTR, bateries and gas, and you're off. Either way they're both costly. 

Personally, I would prefer an off road track but if we can get an onroad going so be it. I just got to get my onroads going...lol. I just need something big enough for an 10th scale. 


What happene with Lost Creek. Noise pollution or something, if it's in the middle of the day, I dont see any problems. But thats just me.


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## jasonwipf

Well needless to say we are all eager to get a track in west Houston. thanks for starting the thread Will. I read all the other posts and let me recap a few things for you guys then take the next step.

Notes:
1. *This will be a practice track 1st and foremost*, then "maybe" formal races later. We all appreciate the work and money Mike's in North Houston and Ken way south of Houston have put into their tracks and do not intend to compete with them. Like most of you said; its a commute issue for practice as our motivation. IF we have too many "*race*" tracks and we dilute our racer base and negatively impact our hobby and cry later about best intentions.

2. M&M is closing their off-road track to make room for added parking/lease agreement. Like most of you said Meir has no desire to host off road races. He is frank on this matter. 1/18 off and on road will continue to the best of my knowledge so we can still enjoy that there. But even if you didn't like M&M's off road track it "*was*" our only west Houston practice track. At a minimum we now will have M&M, RC hobby shop and HARC all supporting and encouraging a west track now since it will benefit their businesses and promote the hobby.

3. The attempts by that group in Georgia and here for the most part have fallen on deaf ears. And wow their powerpoint presentation looked really cool, i liked it. But me and city officials are 2 completely different perspectives and perhaps for one or more of the following reasons they failed:
A. They truly dont understand what we need and why. As far as they (lay people to the hobby) are concerned we are abunch of adults playing with silly toys (sorta true) and the whole idea sounds as sillly as a womens club who wants a building on public land to host their barbie doll fun play days and tea time parties. We need to do more to educate on the difference with our hobby vs. reg toy RCs and why we need a proper track for the safety, enjoyment and financial betterment of the community.
B. Expense and maintenance issues. Many municipalities are about to see their tax base possibly shrink as foreclosures and general housing values decline (thus property tax income); the recession will also add increasing demands for social services that will put a massive strain on their budgets! Then to hear grown men wanting resources to play with their toy cars is definitely not high on their list. A proper reporting and assurance that a local club will maintain it is critical. Then it must be reported as an asset to the city not a liability.
C. Small numbers. They have to know there is a large group wanting this. NOT dozens but hundreds or even thousands!

4. The track needs to be free or at a minimum open to ROAR members if the city gets picky about insurance and liability and this ends up being a ROAR track. The track has to be beefy and simple to maintain for High traffic and usage. (more on this and why when we get there) I heard someone comment on the KatyRC Track effort that is already underway where by 20 people pay $200 each to fund building and thats fine if its private or exclusive to that union of racers but policing the freeloaders and chasing non paying public off a "public" land scenario will not work. Heck i signed up and am willing to pay but it is a different scenario than what we are talking about here.

So whats the next step?

1. Form a club or at a minimum a core group of individuals that will have to start off gathering data and be in charge of representing the rest of us when it comes to pitching this to the city. Also these people will give marching orders as it will take a group effort if we stress out 1 or 2 individuals with all the work they will quit and it will fall apart.

2. Write up a plan*

3. Execute the plan and see what happens. (no more talking on posts for 6 more months)

*IMO the plan needs to address what i outlined as a concern to why the past attempts failed. It wasn't that there wouldn't be the numbers or we had the bodies to do the track work. Or even that we had great leaders in our ranks to make it happen. BUT to educate the officials on the hobby and make a compelling notion that there are just LEGIONS of people in and outside of their city who will crusade to their city and spend all kinds of money at local gas stations, food stores, restaurants, hobby shops and later hotels. This starts with a massive letter and emailing campaign that has to be organized and initiated by the "leaders" of the new club.

However we need to assemble our army:
-Courtney, can we get a list of names from your database of HARC Members? (some 70ish right)
-Start sign-up/support sheets at M&M and RC hobby shop to solicit help or mere intention to use the track that we can show the officials. And later call upon this list of people to appear at the next city council meeting when we pitch our track idea. If we only call the director of parks and rec. dep. it will die on the first desk up the Hierarchy who thinks its a stupid idea! Infact im almost certain thats what happened in the past. I will contact my old race club Harlingen Gears who did this successfully with their city track in harlingen and get notes and ideas from them too.

4. Posting after this one:
I'm willing to help out or start the club to get the ball rolling. But post now if you want to be an organizer/official. Not just a supporter but a meeting attending, "i've got time on my hands", core club officer to-be. Our next step will be a meeting to formalize the club officials and make the "plan".


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## wily

My 3 are in.

Will


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## mmorrow

I am In. I am also friends with Jerry Lewis down in Harlingen.


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## sleebus.jones

The main problem we've run into at KatyRC.org is lack or participation. We've had our website up for 7 months or so and we've garnered 10 signups. Like Nolatron said earlier, we're not married to the space city site, it's just the only site we've been able to find that is on the west side, and will let us build a track there.

What we need, first and foremost, is a critical mass of folks who (1) really want this and (2) really want to work to get it to happen. So far, we've not seen that yet, but this 7 page thread certainly holds promise. As Jason has said, this will involve a lot of work to get it to happen. Tron and I both are busy throughout the day, and this is a side venture for us. It's more than two folks can handle, and really what is needed is people with connections to people who have resources that can make this happen.

The news about M&M is disappointing, but not surprising. That track has been ignored by them for years.

As for 1/18 vs 1/10 vs 1/8, well...I have 1/18th stuff. It's fun, but only on a prepared area, of which I generally am not around. 1/10th is better at handling rough surfaces, but can be fragile. 1/8th is king as far as I'm concerned. Tough, fast and controllable. I don't run nitro, mine are al BL conversions, which helps (for me) the fun factor. If I was stuck with nitro only 1/8th scale stuff, i don't think I'd be in it as much as I am now, I'd probably stick to 1/10th.

At any rate, KatyRC.org stands by, ready to help out in any capacity.


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## cjtamu

Jason, part of what you wrote is right. The Pearland idea died when THRC died when THRC died and Clarke's closed. The S'Land idea died b/c I had to stp pushing it when my mother in law became ill. When we choose who we're going to approach with this idea you have to take the entity into account. I originally approached Pearland b/c I got the introduction through a friend on the council. They had just built a skateboard park and he thought they might like the RC idea. The S'Land idea started b/c I knew some people in Parks, and because they had recently built a BMX track. You have to consider who you're dealing with, and the skate park and BMX track are indicators that the entity you're dealing with is fairly progressive. The BMX track in S'Land is neither an ABA or NBL entity, which means the city is self-insuring it. Much nicer if you can get that. Trying to insure through ROAR, RCP, etc. can be a pain simply trying to keep track of membership and restrict access. Cities that are insuring BMX, skateboarding (not to mention baseball/softball, soccer, basketball, playgrounds) are already insuring activities with a greater potential liability than RC.

I already talked to Bucky and told him I'd have a sign up sheet to him in a week or so to contact info for people interested in doing this. You're right about need some type of organization, both Pearland and S'Land asked about it. That entity would do minor upkeep, run races, design track, etc. Might also be responsible for providing a timing system if needed. That was one of the things we were talking about when it got stalled on my end.


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## Gary

Good discussion so far yall. Of course Ill be nitpicking and the first thing I noticed that I don't agree with is the statement that 1/8th scale is the "King"!

IMO in order to get more tracks and LHS's around the fourth largest city in the US we have to bring in the noobs. There is just not enough racers to go around as it is to build new tracks without bringing in new blood.

Scenario. Youre running your tricked out 1/8th scale car and a kid and his Dad walks up and ask's how much does it cost to get into racing those things?

Of course most racers will brag and say 3K which is pretty much what it takes for a noob to be competative with the big guns in a few years. Or a vet like me to get back into hardcore racing. Ask Andy Sady. He allready quit after a month or two and is as good as they come here! 

Two things happen. I doubt the kid or his Dad will spend that kind of money on an RC car when you can buy a used full scale car for that kind of money. And lets say the noob does spend 3K on a new RC car or a pos off of evilbay. He/she gets whupped big time and quits with a bad taste for RC in da mouth!

Gotta go! The brown truck just brought more RC Plane gear for me! :smile:


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## jasonwipf

Great feed back guys. and Yes CJ thats why its important we get a club/council of a few people that can keep the ball rolling incase one of us has an emergency or for what ever reason has to stop pushing like what happened to you. For those that want to be an organizer; Any out right scheduling problems with meeting for a dinner meeting in the Suglarland/Katy area. Thursday, Friday or Saturday?

Im scanning for a nice location that has wifi so we can answer our own questions via internet on our lap tops as they come up during discussion and such. Suggestions welcome.


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## mmorrow

somewhere off of 99. maybe around 99 and hwy 90. Ruthie's not sure about wifi though. I am in for Thursday, going out of town this weekend.


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## cypressvendetta

I do not want to be an organizer, but I like to assist in seeing this happen.


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## sleebus.jones

Gary said:


> Good discussion so far yall. Of course Ill be nitpicking and the first thing I noticed that I don't agree with is the statement that 1/8th scale is the "King"!


Well, more specifically, it's the "king" for me and my application/driving style. :tongue:

I do agree that we need to grow the hobby here from the ground up, and that means 1/10th scale. When people ask how much it costs, I generally give them the cost of a T4, XXX-T or similar. It's taken a while for me to build up to the 1/8th scale BL arena, and I don't expect anyone to jump into that rarefied atmosphere.

My main goal is to have a place where I can bash, honestly. I'm not interested in racing. Maybe as a passing diversion, but I just don't have the time/energy to devote to something like that. My needs are simple: If I can get to someplace where I can launch my car into outer space, I'm happy. Actually, right now I'll take just about anyplace that I can get some air under my wheels.


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## Guffinator

The money side of this hobby has always been and will continue to be an issue. You can race 1/18th scale for $200, you can race 1/10th for a few hundred more, and then 1/8th. It costs to play, that's all there is to it. Currently in the RC world 1/8 is by far the most popular, even in this area. The people that "get it" will spend the cash...we all do right? The people that don't "Get it" will not. This is no different then real cars. I don't know how many times I've seen guys building hot cars when they really couldn't afford it, this includes me! The fact is we can't change the costs of the hobby, if someone can't afford their rent they they can't afford to play with us. If *I* were designing a track, I would try to incorporate many forms and sizes of RC. Just my thinking...


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## LT280z

Starbucks and Panera both have wifi


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## kstoracing

I think the focus on building the track shouldn't be on the cost of entry for newcomers. When you think about it what hobby is cheap? None really. Ill use golf, I know it's a sport in reality, similar to ours you can say. Clubs, clothes, balls, irons, cart rental, driving range, lessons, club fees these all are costly when you add them together. The cheapest hobby i can think of off the top is exercise, running, and that is until you start to need surgery.

Every hobby is a cost driver. If you really love it you'll spend on it. 1/8th is no more exspensive than any other scale if you can't afford to get in it. Everyone starts on a level that they can afford then build upwards, well I did at least. 

It was nice to obtain a career that can afford my hobby. I can eat and buy parts now instead of choosing....lol. I think the people will be more of a factor than price. Since when did Americans buy what we can afford, we usually buy what we want primarily.

My .02 is plan a track that is for our design, I think the people at the track will be more of a enticing factor. Inviting people, entices a new person to come and join the "club" of RC.


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## GoFaster

FYI, the BMX track in lost creek park is now closed to all RC cars. There is a sign up now. I know the person responsible. He has a putting green installed on park property. I say we all go over there and trash his putting green with our rc cars.


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## kstoracing

*Opportunity*

If they have signs up banning RC. It sounds like the perfect opportunity to question where should we go? If they take the only spot in town that could have been geared for us then they may be able to either take the sign down or build an alternative site. If one guy can complain to get us removed then we all could complain to have an alternative place set up. closer to six if need be, which wouldn't be too horrible of a spot as well.

Anybody knows Wayne Delchfino or something, get a reporter and some sad looking people to a report of a place to keep kids off the street closed because of some prude.


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## Guffinator

kstoracing said:


> I think the focus on building the track shouldn't be on the cost of entry for newcomers. When you think about it what hobby is cheap? None really. Ill use golf, I know it's a sport in reality, similar to ours you can say. Clubs, clothes, balls, irons, cart rental, driving range, lessons, club fees these all are costly when you add them together. The cheapest hobby i can think of off the top is exercise, running, and that is until you start to need surgery.


Good point. It's no different then a Corvette Z06, for a mere $80k you can have 500 horsepower. To my sister, she looks at it and doesn't 'get it', 80k for that??? She would turn up her nose and walk away. To me however, I think, "Ok, how do I come up with 80k in a hurry???". People that want it will afford it. I don't think the price is the factor that keeps people away.


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## cjtamu

I can probably meet Thursday evening. Fri/Sat depends on weather. If it's good, then I'll be in town since we're racing. It it R's and we don't race I'm leaving. Ksto, the track isn't geared towards a newbs pocket book, it's for practice and maybe an occasional club race. It's geared towards giving people a chance to play closer to home, particularly all the kids that have RC cars but can't get out to run them. A lot of them have 1/10, so the track will be manageable for 1/10 and 1/8. Ask anyone who was around about some of the great layouts at Fastrak, or Area 51, or even M&M when Rush was building them. Challenging for either scale but you didn't shatter your 1/10 when you nutted up. Gofaster and I are going to go mountain biking in a public ROW soon. Might be an outlaw putting green there. Anyone else want to go? Should be primo right after it rains this week, LOL.


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## sleebus.jones

kstoracing said:


> If they have signs up banning RC. It sounds like the perfect opportunity to question where should we go? If they take the only spot in town that could have been geared for us then they may be able to either take the sign down or build an alternative site. If one guy can complain to get us removed then we all could complain to have an alternative place set up. closer to six if need be, which wouldn't be too horrible of a spot as well.


I think this is definitely a time to take action. They may have one guy complain, but I think that a bunch of us showing up as a group at a council meeting will make the pay some attention. I like the idea of "ok, so now where do we go?" Obviously there was a demand for a facility like that, so one would think they could provide a spot on that property that is "RC car only, no BMX."

The time to act is NOW, while this issue is still hot.


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## Gary

This is on the west side. I doubt the bikers who built it would appreciate us running there, but there is plenty of room to build our own tracks really close. :tongue: This is near Wilcrest and memorial. If you have google earth, look up all along Buffalo buyou near Highway 6 all the way to beltway 8.


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## cjtamu

Gary, I don't want a bandit track. I'm tired of seeing good tracks go away and I want something that will stay as long as people are using it. And y'all are dead wrong about the cost of RC keeping people from racing. Most of us started with 1/10. You can get a RTR 1/10 nitro for under $300, and a RTR 1/10 electric for about $250, and they're competitive right out of the box. Batteries, charger for the electrics can be had for $100 or so, same thing with fuel, batteries, ignitor for 1/10 gas. You can't touch a competitive RTR 1/8 for that. Look how popular the Slash is. Ready to run for $200 plus batteries and charger. And more and more people racing them 'cause it's fun AND cheap. If you're a kid whose parents don't race, try selling them on a $600+ linitial ayout for a hobby you MIGHT like, LOL.


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## kstoracing

Yeah, i can agree with the 80k Corvette. I would opt for that is it the Z1 or R1 with the Charger on top. i saw it on youtube going against the Nissan GT-R and the 500 Shelby. I wish I could get that "Economical" supecar...lol. Maybe when I hit the lotto, if i ever remember to play at least.

I use to ride mountain bikes when i lived in FtW. 

I remember Rush, he helped me get started in with RC. When he left M&M you could immediately see the difference in culture towards racers, and potential racers. I agree though the track doesn't have to be race focused. As long as it's big enough get a good run in and durable enough to handle kids and their BMX's. Because, you know they'll be on it...lol.


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## Guffinator

You are right Thayer, RC is cheaper now then ever. So where's all the new people? I'm telling you, you are either into it or your not.

Most of the new Slash guys are already long time RC'ers.


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## jasonwipf

Ya any practice track will be general enough to accommodate what ever class you got and be durable enough like the lost creek bmx track so that we are not fixing ruts and small jumps every week.

Discussions of cost are sort of a mute issue. You can or cant afford it. What else is there to discuss? Its cheaper now and I've had a few times when some guy with great talent has beat me and my ($1K+ buggy) with a $200 used 1/8th he got from someone. It DOES happen. Skill>Mods.


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## cjtamu

Guffinator said:


> You are right Thayer, RC is cheaper now then ever. So where's all the new people?


They're waiting for us to build them a dirt track it doesn't take them an hour to get to, LOL. I'm talking about first time RC buyers. I got my first 1/10 truck for about $300, including batteries, and had a hard time paying that much for a toy. My wife nearly had a stroke. Now I'll drop that on an engine and feel like I got a good deal. It grows on on you, kind of like fungus. And you know it Mr. New 1/8 Nitro Owner, ha ha ha.

BTW, I'm itching to run my new 18R. Team tennis ends April 18, hope to make the first weekend after that. Watch, that's the weekend the track rebuild will start, LOL.

Not to worried about the BMX crowd. For one, an RC track is just too tight usually. For another, they don't use the one they have. That track is flat out dangerous though. And it's only about 30 minutes to Pearland, which is a awesome track.


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## sleebus.jones

cjtamu said:


> They're waiting for us to build them a dirt track it doesn't take them an hour to get to, LOL.


Amen, brother!


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## jasonwipf

*MEETING TIME AND LOCATION*

MEETING TIME AND LOCATION-To start West Houston Track Project
(Located half way between I10 and 59)

Russo's New York Pizzeria
5530 W Grand Pkwy
Richmond, TX 77406
(281) 239-6336‎

832-248-6406-Jason Cell

Corner of Westpark tollway and 99 Grand parkway in the Walmart area strip center.

6:00PM Start/Dinner and discussion

They are open till 9pm so we have 3 hrs of meeting time. Willy will have internet to access info for questions during discussion and Location is central to the north and south folks of West Houston, so should be easy to get to. Bring appetite, any notes or info you might think will be helpful and an eagerness to help our cause. Hope to see ya'll there.


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## Gary

cjtamu said:


> Gary, I don't want a bandit track. I'm tired of seeing good tracks go away and I want something that will stay as long as people are using it.


So do I! But where is it going to come from? Heck, look at all the hobby shops that closed down on the west side. If a hobby shop can't survive without a money losing track, imagine one trying to survive *WITH *a money losing track!!!


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## mmorrow

Is the meeting this Thursday? If so that is only 5 mins from my house. sweet!


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## cjtamu

Yeah, what day Jason?


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## mmorrow

i called him and it is this Thursday.


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## jasonwipf

*Meeting is Thrusday*

Yep Thursday the 12th of March. Sorry and didnt see link to edit replies either. From the sound of it we got great ideas and energy already lined up to go so looking good. Cya then.


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## kstoracing

I may not be able ot enjoy that good pizza with you guys but, ill try and keep up to date on here.


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## Gary

I have two things to apologize for. Sorry for being the doubtfull one among the group. Normally I am very optomistic and passionate about growing the hobby and keeping our tracks open. Hopefully my negativity will challenge yall to work hard on this endevor and make me look stupid. :spineyes:

The second thing I apologize for is not being able to make the meeting Thursday. Wait untill yall hit 51 years old and get up at 3:00 am 6-7 days a week! :headknock

I support yall 100% though. If there is something I can do, count me in.


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## mmorrow

Gary start by typing up a proposal for the city or county. 50 plus pages would be nice. Thanks ; )


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## Gary

mmorrow said:


> Gary start by typing up a proposal for the city or county. 50 plus pages would be nice. Thanks ; )


50 pages? Guff will reach 6'7" before that is done. With hair! :slimer:

I spent half a day searching through this forum yesterday to find where we talked about the same thing a few times over the years. Seems Mont has limited how many pages the RC forum can have and since I am no longer a mod here, I can't go that far back. Not sure I could of anyway. Never tried it before.

Something to ponder though. City and County parks are run by govern-non-mental people abusing taxpayers money to those sheeple who voted for them because of party preferance or what they can get back in some sort of "Stimulous Package". Seems the RC car guys doesn't have a large enough team of lobbiest to get that done! We need a bailout. 

Joking aside, with the economy the way it is, I don't see any city or county park representatives helping us at all using taxpayers money and as a fiscal conservative, I would vote it down myself.


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## wily

Im planning on being there....will have my laptop and aircard.

Will


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## sleebus.jones

I won't be able to attend, will be at the rodeo that night.


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## GoFaster

Mark, do you really want Gary to type a paper? Every other word would be Budweiser. lol


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## nolatron

I'm fighting a cold still so I won't be able to make it.

Between work and my 1yr old I don't really fall into the "I've got time on my hands" category but I'd like to help wherever I can. I've got the Katy R/C site at our disposal if needed for anything.

Like Gary said, it's going to cost the city taxpayer money to build a track. So I'd say keep the initial proposal simple. A dirt practice/bash track near an exisiting parking lot to start with.

Shaun
http://www.katyrc.org


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## sleebus.jones

Since I can't make changes after 20 minutes (no idea why that rule is in effect) here is an addendum to my previous post.

However, I'd like to suggest that y'all take the "cheap and cheerful" route. Gary makes some very good points with how government might be somewhat tight-fisted at the moment. In our experience dealing with the local officials, they will take your first suggestion and then to them that's the only suggestion, even if you offer cheaper alternatives. Personally, I'd aim for getting something like lost creek first. Dirt on ground. That's it. Don't ask for a driver's stand, ask for a mound of dirt. If they can get everything placed in a day, you have a good chance. If you ask for facilities, power, water, bathrooms, etc, etc, etc. they are going to stonewall you and you'll never get any further. They'll start thinking about all the cost and that'll be the end of that.

If the track is successful, and has a good bunch of people out there, then you can start asking for improvements, or the organization that supports the track can take up a collection and build them. I think you'll have a better chance of building your own driver's stand than asking them to make one for you.

More than likely, they will come at you with liability issues. ROAR is the solution for that. You register as a club, apply for insurance and then everyone joins as a ROAR member. That takes care of liability.


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## Gary

sleebus.jones said:


> Since I can't make changes after 20 minutes (no idea why that rule is in effect) here is an addendum to my previous post.
> 
> However, I'd like to suggest that y'all take the "cheap and cheerful" route. Gary makes some very good points with how government might be somewhat tight-fisted at the moment. In our experience dealing with the local officials, they will take your first suggestion and then to them that's the only suggestion, even if you offer cheaper alternatives. Personally, I'd aim for getting something like lost creek first. Dirt on ground. That's it. Don't ask for a driver's stand, ask for a mound of dirt. If they can get everything placed in a day, you have a good chance. If you ask for facilities, power, water, bathrooms, etc, etc, etc. they are going to stonewall you and you'll never get any further. They'll start thinking about all the cost and that'll be the end of that.
> 
> If the track is successful, and has a good bunch of people out there, then you can start asking for improvements, or the organization that supports the track can take up a collection and build them. I think you'll have a better chance of building your own driver's stand than asking them to make one for you.
> 
> More than likely, they will come at you with liability issues. ROAR is the solution for that. You register as a club, apply for insurance and then everyone joins as a ROAR member. That takes care of liability.


I agree a 100%. If you need any help with ROAR, lemme know. Dawn and I go way back!


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## ShallowSportJ

It is not a single individual that is responsible for the enforcement of the BMX track being used by RC folks. The track was apparently OK for electric RC use, but never intended for gas powered toys and the law as it pertains to "motorized" vehicles dictated that the sign be installed so that the Parks Dept. rules could be enforced. The situation escalated as more and more users (understandably) started using the track and did so later and later into the evening. When the users were asked to "please shut it down" before dark, home owners were met with bad/aggressive attitudes which certainly didn't help the RC cause. What amounts to a full blown "motocross" event (from a noise standpoint) won't be tolerated by a group of 100+ homeowners all paying 6-8K in annual property taxes and you'll have difficult fight on your hands. Apparantly there have also been numerous complaints by parents of children that use or want to use the BMX track being frightened or intimidated by the RC vehicles and users. The previous comment re: the "putting green" and how someone should go "tear it up" is the type of attitude that resulted in the enforcement (ban) of what was already not a legal or intended use of a BMX track designed for kids. By the way, the golf area in question is part of the park and sponsered by the Park Dept. it appears which would make it even more unadvised to damage.


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## GoFaster

Shallowsport, could you be the guy with the putting green behind their fence? I know my facts, and have them from a reliable source. ONE person screwed it for everyone.


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## GoFaster

Anyways, We are petitioning for land set aside at of the new parks that is not developed near the Brazos.


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## nolatron

GoFaster said:


> Shallowsport, could you be the guy with the putting green behind their fence? I know my facts, and have them from a reliable source. ONE person screwed it for everyone.


Does it really matter? You can argue all day long that it was one person or that was a hundred people. The fact remains that r/c cars are banned from the track. It's done. Retaliating against whomever responsible is NOT the way to get the City on your side. The last thing we want to show the city is that r/c drivers are a bunch of immature hoodlums who yell "Well, he started it!".

Instead of arguing about why the ban happened, how about we put that energy into getting a new track *only* for R/C cars.

In regards to the topic: One park that could be looked at a potential track location is Mason Creek Park (East of Katy Park). There's an exisiting large parking lot here with a good bit of space available for a dirt track along the retention pond. The nearest residential home is about 400 yards way so noise from nitro's should not be to much of an issue for them.

http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v...&scene=37741333&phx=0&phy=0&phscl=1&encType=1


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## cjtamu

Shallowsport, check your facts. The nearest homes are in what, Woodstream? That's 300 yards or more from the track. I can guarantee you decibel levels at that point are below the legal limit, because they were checked just offiste when Performance had the same issues. I play tennis there on Sundays and have occasionally heard the cars running, and they're simply not very loud. Dang site less noisy than your neighbors' leaf blowers, which fall within the city's noise pollution ordinance. Secondly, ask yourself, after many years, why did all these homeowners suddenly start calling SLPD every time an RC car fired up? The truth is going to come out. Third, I haven't looked at the putting green yet, but if it's where I've been told it is, it's in ROW which is not owned by Parks. Last, I'm going to repeat what I said about that BMX track. It s dangerous, and almost never gets used for BMX. I've raced both MX and MTB, and my daughter races BMX. We went out for 5 minutes one time and left b/c the jump faces were so bad. I was on a suspended rig and still ended up hanging my arse over the back tire to keep from face planting. Talk about a potential liability issue!

LOL, calm down nolatron, we're just having fun. Nobody's going to do anything illegal. However, public ROW is public ROW, and you can't build anything there, including putting greens. But you can certainly bike ride, run, etc.


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## GoFaster

The truth needs to be known why it was closed so it will not happen again at a different facility. I agree that the nitro cars were probably loud, but the track it at least 200 yds from any house. They could have just banned the nitro cars and allowed electric only.


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## sleebus.jones

I doubt that the nitros were the problem, it was probably the bajas running there at 9pm at night that did it.


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## nolatron

cjtamu said:


> The nearest homes are in what, Woodstream? That's 300 yards or more from the track.


The nearest home is about 120 yards away through the trees (SE of the track).



> LOL, calm down nolatron, we're just having fun. Nobody's going to do anything illegal. However, public ROW is public ROW, and you can't build anything there, including putting greens.


No worries. Just don't want people to get any crazy ideas.


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## cjtamu

BTW, I have to mention how much I like Shallowsort's comments about the 6-8K in property taxes. There are a bunch of us that live in Sugar Land and we're all paying them. And ALL of our taxes go to support the city parks, not just those of the people in Woodstream or whatever the subdivision is on the other side.


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## ShallowSportJ

GoFaster said:


> Shallowsport, could you be the guy with the putting green behind their fence? I know my facts, and have them from a reliable source. ONE person screwed it for everyone.


No, I don't have the putting green (actually it's a short par 3 hole), but I've hit balls there a couple of times and I sure thought it had Parks Dept. signs on it. I could be mistaken. Either way, have the golf hole banned/demolished if you want...could care less.

Come on CJTAMU, you don't recognize the difference in who's paying the property taxes in question? No one said you couldn't use the park, but if your activities potentially effect the property values of taxpayers involved, well, there is a difference. Property value diminishment is certainly debatable, but a HUGE issue nontheless. Anyway, I was trying to give some insight into why the sign was posted so as your group try's to find a home for your hobby you can take note of what went wrong in Sugar Land:
Although it was never legal in the first place, it was tolerated until:

Usage got out of hand
Bad/agressive attutides by users (certainly not all)
Using the track after dark (don't anything thing at all about RC vehicles or the decible levels different ones produce, but if you had 5 folks using leaf blowers at 9 PM at night, there will be complaints as well)


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## GoFaster

I think the new park out by the Brazos on University blvd would be a good place for a future rc park. No houses around for noise issues. It would be nice if the person that complained to the city so much would also lobby for a "new" rc area. Instead, a large group of people now have nowhere to enjoy their hobby. The city have built skate parks and bmx tracks in the past. I am positive that an rc track will draw a better crowd. They just need a place to do it that is intended for rc. I still don't think electric rc cars on the bmx track would be a bad thing.


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## ShallowSportJ

GoFaster, I agree that it is a shame people are being limited from participating in their choosen hobby. Especially re: electric vehicles as they do not pose a noise issue and are less "indimidating" to the kiddos. That's the problem with laws, rules, whatever...when they have to be enforced, it takes away all "gray" areas and everything becomes only black and white. Re: Sugar Land, what about the miles and miles of undeveloped land (other than existing park areas of course) that run under the huge power lines? I don't think the RC crowd cares about having a soccer field or playground adjacement to the track they use. Just a thought...good luck coming up with a spot.


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## cjtamu

LOL @ shallowsort. They didn't say we couldn't use the park, just not use it for a chosen activity. Personally, I have never run my RC cars there, and I've been waiting for years for them to but the kibosh on it. You'll definitely have to show me how a diminution in value attaches to the presence of RC cars on that track occasionally. I've de-valued property for lots of other reasons, I'll have to add that to my list, LOL. And no, there's no distinction b/w who's paying the property taxes. You can use any parl IN S'land b/c in theory, we've all paid an appropriate share. You had 2 things happen here. One, some people abused the privilege of running there. Two, well. some of us know what happened. It will come out. For bad, aggressive atitude, you need to add a few homeowners to your list. Aggression will generally be met with same.

You're kidding about building in a Centerpoint easement, right? There's a reason they're undeveloped. Try to access one sometime to put a structure in there. It ain't easy.


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## nolatron

cjtamu said:


> You're kidding about building in a Centerpoint easement, right? There's a reason they're undeveloped. Try to access one sometime to put a structure in there. It ain't easy.


You can find some CP easements that don't look like mini forests, but the issue with those is they usually run pretty close to a residential area.

Except for this one though near I-10.

http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v...&scene=10449321&phx=0&phy=0&phscl=1&encType=1


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## ShallowSportJ

cjtamu, I think you just (other than the property value issue) re-stated what I had said in my previous post. It's really a mute point as the area wasn't designated for (motorized) RC use in the first place from what I understand. There was no huge move in place to ban the RC use by a single individual or group, just to have the current regulations enforced. We seem to be in agreement on the reasons even though we are obviously coming from opposite points of view. Why couldn't a track be built (by the SLPD) on a Centerpoint easement? Isn't the current park/BMX track in question built on an easement? The proximity to residences wouldn't be a problem (it wouldn't have been at Lost Creek) if there were rules in place to regulate it's use. Like I stated earlier, I wish everyone luck in finding a new location.


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## Gary

Seems like were coming back to the outlaw track I proposed several pages back except it seems we have now moved from the west side to Havana! 

This is a great thread and I really like these kind of discussions.

cjtamu. Tomarrow I will pick your posts apart. LOL Seems like you have a way of contradicting yourself.


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## kstoracing

I think Cj maybe practicing for running for election..lol


Well, if the issue was abuse of the BMX track only...we're sure about this. Then an option would be to just have the city put a noise quiet time set place, or whatever. If that was the issue. Other persons used that track with motorized vehicles but, they were those electric dirt bike type kid toys. I know other parks closed at 9pm there could be something similar to that over there.


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## cjtamu

kstoracing said:


> I think Cj maybe practicing for running for election..lol


Not me, too many skeletons. That's what the PAC is for, I can still participate without people digging around in my background, LOL. Gary, huh? I know the screen looks a little fuzzy to you late at night, LOL. The Centerpoint easements are really a near impossibility, I've dealt with them in the past. They may let you encroach on a small aerial easement, but you're not building anything as substantial as a track in one. I have interesting news on the possibility of a S'Land track though. We're supposed to contact Parks next week and may even meet with them next week. I'll bring details to the meeting tonight.


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## Gary

Mark, the point of the March 14 race is to get out, have some fun, and not drive 2 hours round trip to do it. Beyond that, no point. Like to have some place to practice/race occasionally on the west/sw side of town. Love Mike's, but like CV said it turns in to a 1/2 day or more event just to get up there to practice by the time you're done. 


Gary, we don't need any "big time" racing in W/SW Houston. We just need a track to practice/play on, maybe run an occasional club race on


Gary, I don't want a bandit track. I'm tired of seeing good tracks go away and I want something that will stay as long as people are using it.

:slimer:


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## GoFaster

All looks in line to me.

Chris is taking his own time to do something good for the RC community. He's not just talking about it like some others do.


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## cjtamu

Gary, put down the beer and step away from the baby sitter, LOL. I'm still trying to find the contradiction? I meant every word of it. We have enough big time racing. Mike's is a world class facility and I don't want to compete with them or anyone else for big races. Track out on our side of town for practice/play/occasional club race. If we can pull it off I'd really like to have weeknight racing any day except Saturday. As far as bandit tracks, you're just asking for trouble. Just like bandit trails. At some pint, they will get found and torn down. You know that the feds have sued a few mountain bikers for building bandit trails with stunts? And they won, people are on probation for building bandit trails? None of that for me thanks.


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## Gary

cjtamu said:


> Gary, put down the beer and step away from the baby sitter, LOL. I'm still trying to find the contradiction? I meant every word of it. We have enough big time racing. Mike's is a world class facility and I don't want to compete with them or anyone else for big races. Track out on our side of town for practice/play/occasional club race. If we can pull it off I'd really like to have weeknight racing any day except Saturday. As far as bandit tracks, you're just asking for trouble. Just like bandit trails. At some pint, they will get found and torn down. You know that the feds have sued a few mountain bikers for building bandit trails with stunts? And they won, people are on probation for building bandit trails? None of that for me thanks.


They don't allow me to drink beer at work. sad4sm It just struck me that the way things were unfolding, ah never mind. I was just reading too much into this. Sorry about that.

"Just like bandit trails. At some pint, they will get found and torn down. You know that the feds have sued a few mountain bikers for building bandit trails with stunts? And they won, people are on probation for building bandit trails? "

Army Corp of Engineers? That makes sence.

I can't think of much else and am out of ideas guys. I can go upstairs and ask the 2Coolers again. With allmost 35,000 members here something may come up but as the last two times I asked, insurance and libility was the issue.


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## cjtamu

Not Corps, Fish and Wildlife maybe? I'll look for the article. Insurance/liability are always an issue. It's manageable, just have to see what the options are. I'll repeat though, RC is less of a potential liability than BMX or skate parks, baseball/softball, soccer, etc. I'm going to look into how they're doing that. But, I'm almost 100% certain the BMX track is insured by the city, b/c they don't have any other type of org running it.


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## Gary

cjtamu said:


> Not Corps, Fish and Wildlife maybe? I'll look for the article. Insurance/liability are always an issue. It's manageable, just have to see what the options are. I'll repeat though, RC is less of a potential liability than BMX or skate parks, baseball/softball, soccer, etc. I'm going to look into how they're doing that. But, I'm almost 100% certain the BMX track is insured by the city, b/c they don't have any other type of org running it.


You mean TPWD? Thats state not fed. It's the AC of E and the Harris County Flood Control District. Not sure exactly who has more controll though. My bet would be the HCFCD.


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## cjtamu

No Gary, US Fish and Wlidlife, not TPWD. You're getting into what I do for a living. USACE has pretty much complete control of the Barker Reservoir. The trails, etc. along the bayou are built in a HCFCD easement through an agreement with them. 

Really excited about the meeting tonight. Things are moving much faster than I thought and in a positive direction, some things have really fallen into place by themselves on this. Still a lot of work to do, but I think we came up with a good plan tonight. I'm going to bring the Extreme RC writeup on the last Shriners race when we meet with Parks, and also talk about the TFT races so they can see what else can be done with RC. I'll look at the form tomorrow that we need to basically request space, and I'll put up a post with questions so we can come up with the best possible answers. Once we're ready, I'll submit the form. We need to think about the total land size we need, it will differ depending on whether we need to add parking or can use existing. BTW, it took me 17 minutes from Russo's to the site we talked about, I drove past on the way back tonight. Don't want to divulge the site until we're further down the road, but a nice fit for just about anywhere in Fort Bend and Katy.

Will, keep looking into the space you were talking about. When we first started talking about this a few years back, one of the ideas was to get one done and successful, and then maybe try another one. Houston Metro is just such a huge geographical area, it would support more than one public track.


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## kstoracing

Fellas how did it end up going last night? Where do we stand?


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## cjtamu

kstoracing said:


> Fellas how did it end up going last night? Where do we stand?


Well, if you'd been there you'd know LOL. Go read the post I put up about questions we need to answer for our submittal, there's more detail in there.


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