# SOS, save our stripers



## shadslinger (Aug 21, 2005)

Many 2coolers have noticed the amount of dead stripers floating around the island.
These fish are victims of catch and release, as noble as catch and release sounds, it does not work with warm weather stripers. Even those that appear healthy on release will later float up and die.
The motivation for releasing them can range from some folks not wanting to clean fish, to some who think they are doing the fishery a favor by releasing the fish to grow bigger, etc...
There are a couple of things needed when you go out for stripers, a towel to handle them with so you don't get cut up by their razor gills, and an ice chest with plenty of ice to keep them in until time to clean them.

A stringer, live well, or 5 gallon bucket will not work. It temps the angler to release the fish so they can keep in on the exciting action, and if kept that way the fish won't be fit to eat.
We have been fortunate enough to have a stable population of the best game fish on Livingston to develop in the last couple of years, and to have Meadowlark develop an awesome system for locating and catching them.
It would be a shame to see it diminish.
Keep your 5 and stop, even if the smallest is 18.5" long don't be tempted to release it in in hopes of a bigger one to fill out you limit. It does take some self discipline to stop catching stripers while they are in a frenzy.
Thanks and see you on the water.
SS


----------



## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

Gotta give SS post 5 stars.

Anyone who still believes in catch and release stripers in water temps above 85 degrees, need only to take a quick tour around Pine Island where you will see the results....wasted resources.

Protect the resource and shut it down at 5....and we will all benefit from it.


----------



## wwind3 (Sep 30, 2009)

Are you guys catching a lot of sub 18" fish--and if so is there any evidence of them dying also? 

That's always a prob--having to throw back small fish that will die anyway--like crappie from deep water


----------



## shadslinger (Aug 21, 2005)

I have caught very few sub 18" stripers this year.


----------



## dbullard (Feb 13, 2008)

Well said SS,I know it can make for a short morning if you hit it right and catch 5 quick.
But to keep fishing and releasing them is not good. Catch your 5 and try for the whites or catfish . 
Out of 26 fish the last two weekends we caught one undersized fish.
Lets keep this Striper fishing going for many years.
As sportsmen we owe it to the next generation.


----------



## Sunbeam (Feb 24, 2009)

shadslinger said:


> I have caught very few sub 18" stripers this year.


That fact is a little troubling. Last year there were many sub-legal fish.
We all assume that those 20" average being caught now are that crop with one year growth.
If there are very few snall fish this year where are the 20 inchers going to come from in july2011? Hmmmm....


----------



## DEG (May 29, 2006)

Oh...stripers with one p...misread the title...


----------



## impulse (Mar 17, 2010)

While I think they're going overboard, Europeans have developed a wide range of equipment to facilitate catch and live release. Loathe as I am to emulate the French, perhaps we can learn something from the rest of the European fishermen. They have been fishing overcrowded waters for decades, if not centuries and some of their bigger fish have been caught so many times they actually have names.

The most impressive is a bag that's spread on the ground (they don't use boats nearly as much). It's pre-wetted before the fish is laid into it to remove the hook, take pictures, etc. The bag also closes up and has a handle that allows the fish to be weighed then gently released without ever being touched, or touching the ground- never mind the sharp edges and grunge coated bottom of a boat hull (my apologies to those of you who are better at boat hygiene than I am).

Many of the prime European waters require the equipment be set out and pre-wetted before fishing can even commence. I'm definitely not in favor of yet more laws requiring it, but as crowded as our waters are becoming and as valuable as the resource is, perhaps some of us catch and releasers may want to look into the equipment. 

I suspect it's available from some of the carp fishing specialty stores on the internet, though the Europeans use them for salmon and pike as well. I'll look around and post back if I find some.


----------



## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

My records for July indicate a 4 to 1 ratio of keepers to undersized fish. That's 4 keepers for every 1 undersized fish...that's over the month of July. In May, I the ratio was about 3 to 1.

That may be down some from last year but not a whole lot...but that's also just my data set.


----------



## Eagle180 (Oct 24, 2009)

Good post!!!


----------



## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

impulse said:


> While I think they're going overboard, Europeans have developed a wide range of equipment to facilitate catch and live release.


Sorry, but it won't work on our summer caught stripers. They go into some kind of muscular shock when caught in hot waters...there is a term for it but I forget. The fish locks up in muscle cramps and dies...it is as simple as that. The only "effective" treatment is to put the fish in an oxygenated tank immediately...litterally a tank with pure oxygen being pumped into it as fast as possible.

I doubt even the Europeans are willing to carry tanks with live oxygen being pumed through them on their boats....the best solution, really the only practical, common sense solution is to stop at 5.

Otherwise, Livingston will be talked about in the future in terms of those good old days when we could catch those keeper stripers.


----------



## Boomhauer75 (Jan 3, 2010)

Good info here but I have something that I would like to add to this.

Over the past couple of weeks I have noticed several fisherman using light tackle and even a few with fly rods. In my opinion the more the fish fights the harder it is for these fish to survive once they are released. This goes for the undersized and legal sized fish.

As much as we sit here and talk about the effects of the thermocline & the lack of oxygen for these awesome fish I think we owe it to them and the fishery to not "Play" them to the end. I think it only adds to the problem. I am not saying this is the only cause but I do think that it does not help the fish.

I had a good friend of mine who was a guide on Texoma for many years until he retired and he use to preach on this very subject.

I am guilty of it myself but on different species.
And I also agree if we are catching 18 inch fish then we need to keep them and not "Cull" so many back into the water.

Robby


----------



## tbone2374 (Feb 27, 2010)

Interesting info, guys...and food for thought!


----------



## ScooterC (Jan 21, 2010)

*Undersized Stripers*

Regarding the undersized population... Last weekend we fished the 190 bridge trolling for whites. We caught quite a few (10-12) very small stripers. These guys were all 6" or less. Not sure what that means about next year's crop, but I guess it is evidence of a healty nursery.


----------



## scott2h2 (Dec 24, 2009)

Thank you SS, that was well said. I have never been in the striper action like I have this year. I really enjoy the action and hope others will heed what you have said.


----------



## stewman773 (Jun 19, 2009)

It's tough to leave them bitiing after you catch your limit, I had to make that decision on Sunday. I have to admit I seriously thought about catching and releasing some but decided not too, as I was driving into the boat ramp I knew I made the right decision when I saw three keeper stripers floating in the water dead...


----------



## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

Kudos to you Stewman773. You absolutely made the right decision.


----------



## markbrumbaugh (Jul 13, 2010)

This assumes I and most casual but ardent fishermen will ever catch 5 in one day! 

I don't have a problem with the thought...I will keep every legal striper I catch. But if I've had to throw a few back due to size and then get into the first surface school of my life, I will have a hard time not fishing. It just hasn't ever happened to me on Stripers in the lake and from that experience, I doubt I'll ever put much of a dent in the population. If I had caught more than a half dozen in my life, I'd be more restrictive. And if I start catching them left and right frequently, I always stop when I have more than I can eat anyway.

Also what are you guides going to tell all your clients? If you get into the heat of the action, it will be hard for you to tell your customer that you are going to stop after they catch 5 17 inchers and have nothing to take home for pictures. I really admire you guides. You work hard for little money. But keep in mind some folks are watching your hauls, wishing to have just one day of that kind of fishing. It doesn't feel appropriate, at least at the moment, for guides to tell ME to catch fewer fish.

Above is just food for thought and my dumb opinion. I hope I don't torque anyone off. Like I said, I admire the guides, and especially SS and have sent clients his way.

Perhaps the best thing to do would be to talk to the biologist and TPW. If in fact we are killing every fish we catch, we ought to drop the size restriction for August and Sept or mandate we count released fish.

And I probably should have kept my mouth shut


----------



## shadslinger (Aug 21, 2005)

The undersized stripers have not been the plague that they were last year. Sometimes they were all you could catch while trying for white bass. I did not, and probably will not stop my clients after catching five of the undersized ones. 
If there is a chance for white bass or larger stripers mixed in with them. 
If that is all we are catching we will move to get away from them, last year was the first time they were so plentiful and it did become a problem. Most of then were caught early in the summer and the mortality rate was not as high.
One thing I did notice was that you did not see them the next 3 days floating on the water. They were small enough for other fish to eat, the larger stripers must have to disintegrate completly befiore they sink and become catfish/crawfish food.

I am not suggesting that fisherman stop after 5 undersized ones while trying for bigger ones, just that they stop after 5 that are over 18". It can be done quite easily with the larger fish, stop at 5. It is not so easy with the small ones, but it beats releasing larger fish that will die.


----------



## RAYSOR (Apr 26, 2007)

Sunbeam said:


> That fact is a little troubling. Last year there were many sub-legal fish.
> We all assume that those 20" average being caught now are that crop with one year growth.
> If there are very few snall fish this year where are the 20 inchers going to come from in july2011? Hmmmm....


I thought the same thing, SB


----------



## OrangeS30 (Jun 21, 2009)

When the white bass were stacked up like crazy on the south end, we caught a lot of small stripers, in the 6-10" range. I would say on average, we would catch one small striper per ten white bass. I think there are still plenty of young stripers out there. I just think they are hanging around with fish more their size, i.e. white bass. Now, since the schooling has started, we have caught only a few undersized fish. But then again, the white bass have since left the area, or we just can't seem to find them. We have yet to catch a two man limit of stripers, but if we did, I know we would stop fishing for them! That's just my $.02


----------



## Boatless Potlicker (Oct 5, 2009)

dbullard said:


> Well said SS,I know it can make for a short morning if you hit it right and catch 5 quick.
> But to keep fishing and releasing them is not good. *Catch your 5 and try for the whites* or catfish .
> Out of 26 fish the last two weekends we caught one undersized fish.
> Lets keep this Striper fishing going for many years.
> As sportsmen we owe it to the next generation.


How do you stop fishing for stripes and go for the whites? I thought you fished the same way for both...I have only been out on my new boat for two weekends now, so please excuse my ignorance. :spineyes:


----------



## rsumrall (Jul 2, 2010)

Good info from both SS and ML. Yesterday at Pine Island on LL Bird and I could see as many as 6 floating Stripers at one time. A good chance they were catch and release since they all appeared to be of legal length limit.


----------



## markbrumbaugh (Jul 13, 2010)

Boatless Potlicker said:


> How do you stop fishing for stripes and go for the whites? I thought you fished the same way for both...I have only been out on my new boat for two weekends now, so please excuse my ignorance. :spineyes:


for me its smaller lures, shallower water like on humps


----------



## PanamaBrian (Apr 1, 2010)

I did not know about the catch and release problem with the stripers and will make sure I keep all I catch. Thanks for the excellent info.
BL


----------



## Sunbeam (Feb 24, 2009)

The limit on stripers is state wide. Livingston is the only lake with catch and release fish dying. LL rules could be modified to take that in account. 
If you read Brian's report from Texoma he some time has to catch 30 or more over twenty inch fish to keep a limit of twenty inch or unders. I have never seen more than one or two dead stripers floating on Texoma. They do not die in those very deep cooler lakes.
Perhaps TP&W could reconsider the bag limit for LL. They have a two fish limit below the dam out of their own desire to maintain a large population of brood fish.
Maybe they could set a limit below 18" ( say 12") and have a no cull policy.
Bag limits are set to maintain a fishable population with in a lake. In the case of LL the whole purpose of the striper program is to have enough 4 year old fish to migrate down stream.
If the Arkansas data is correct the die off in about 10 to 15 percent per year of each years stocking after the first year. And that is in much deeper and cooler lakes. So a larger limit of say 8 fish but no cull above 12" inch would allow a better harvest of the larger but younger population group. It would take the pressure off the larger fish since most angler can easily catch the small one and then be required by law to stop at their limit.
Of course a no cull law would be hard to enforce without the help of the truly concerned fishermen who could keep an eye on violators. Stiff fines and the reward system now in effect might help.
I know it probably would not work. Just some ramblings from an old man that still thinks most folks a fundamental honest. I guess that is why I am a Conservative Republican.


----------



## Humble2Fish (Feb 2, 2010)

*Thought*

I to have noticed the large number of large dead fish but as I am new to striper fishing and have not limited out often. What I have had happen quite a few times is a nice striper putting up a good fight and breaking the line. Could some of those be fish that got off one way or the other but were to stress to make it?

Just a thought?


----------



## shadslinger (Aug 21, 2005)

Humble2Fish said:


> I to have noticed the large number of large dead fish but as I am new to striper fishing and have not limited out often. What I have had happen quite a few times is a nice striper putting up a good fight and breaking the line. Could some of those be fish that got off one way or the other but were to stress to make it?
> 
> Just a thought?


That does happen and often, 20lb test line at the reel is the best when striper fishing, and a landing net.


----------



## Lone Eagle (Aug 20, 2009)

Humble2fish, yes; that is a possibility also. I have fished from the dam to the 190 bridge in the past week. There are dead stripers in many parts of the lake. This time of year when the water is so warm, the stripers die easly after being caught.


----------



## markbrumbaugh (Jul 13, 2010)

Sunbeam said:


> The limit on stripers is state wide. Livingston is the only lake with catch and release fish dying. LL rules could be modified to take that in account.
> If you read Brian's report from Texoma he some time has to catch 30 or more over twenty inch fish to keep a limit of twenty inch or unders. I have never seen more than one or two dead stripers floating on Texoma. They do not die in those very deep cooler lakes.
> Perhaps TP&W could reconsider the bag limit for LL. They have a two fish limit below the dam out of their own desire to maintain a large population of brood fish.
> Maybe they could set a limit below 18" ( say 12") and have a no cull policy.
> ...


exactly what I was thinking. I think most fishermen are honest about their limits and it would help to change the size limit and have a no cull policy on LL only. Somebody knows our biologist. I hope they contact him.


----------



## dbullard (Feb 13, 2008)

Boatless Potlicker said:


> How do you stop fishing for stripes and go for the whites? I thought you fished the same way for both...I have only been out on my new boat for two weekends now, so please excuse my ignorance. :spineyes:


You quit fishing the the large schools of Stripers and fish other areas ,down size your bait, fish shallower.


----------



## stewman773 (Jun 19, 2009)

markbrumbaugh said:


> exactly what I was thinking. I think most fishermen are honest about their limits and it would help to change the size limit and have a no cull policy on LL only. Somebody knows our biologist. I hope they contact him.


Not sure if this true but had a buddy at work tell me that they do that on Toledo Bend for Crappie I think they keep the first 25 any size because of the die off of the culled fish.


----------



## Eagle180 (Oct 24, 2009)

Toledo Bend Exception for Crappie..

For black and white crappie caught from December 1 through the last day of February, there is no minimum length limit and all crappie caught must be retained. Daily bag and possession limit is still 50.

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/publications/annual/fish/limits_freshwater/exceptions.phtml#T


----------



## stewman773 (Jun 19, 2009)

Eagle180 said:


> Toledo Bend Exception for Crappie..
> 
> For black and white crappie caught from December 1 through the last day of February, there is no minimum length limit and all crappie caught must be retained. Daily bag and possession limit is still 50.
> 
> http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/publications/annual/fish/limits_freshwater/exceptions.phtml#T


Thanks Eagle180 so there was some truth of what he was telling me. So if TPWD can do something like that on Teledo Bend they could do the same for LL stipers in the summer months...


----------



## Sunbeam (Feb 24, 2009)

markbrumbaugh said:


> exactly what I was thinking. I think most fishermen are honest about their limits and it would help to change the size limit and have a no cull policy on LL only. Somebody knows our biologist. I hope they contact him.


The biologist for Livingston is Mark Webb. He is stationed in Bryan. I tried to call him a few days ago and get a "phone out of service" for the number I had. I have email Smith School Road and ask for a new contact info. No response yet.

TP&W RULES FOR TEXOMA.
For striped bass and hybrid striped bass, no minimum length limit; daily bag =10 and possession limit=20. Only two striped or hybrid striped bass 20 inches or greater may be retained each day. Culling of striped bass and hybrid striped bass is prohibited.

I posted this on another thread but it best be here. When it says no cull it means if you put a fish in the live well, stringer or box it is yours. They allow catch and release of the large fish but do not have the same problems with the hot shallow water.
For LL it should be to keep anything you catch up to your limit then no C&R.


----------

