# Brownwood Deer hunters BEWARE



## Muddskipper (Dec 29, 2004)

If you hunt Brown County the home of Brownwood Tx you need to beware.

The Game Warden up there is writing everyone tickets and I mean everyone.

Before I continue, please understand, I obide by all of TPWD rules, regs and laws. The regs. are there for a reason, and I respect the Game wardens jobs and what they do for the fish and wildlife.

There is only 2 GW's in the county and one inparticular is upsetting everyone not just the hunters and fisherman.

The GW that everyone is hving isues with is named " Leroy ".

He has been known for checking single individuals up to 7 times in ONE DAY on lake brownwood

THis old fart is being forced to retire after this year, due to so many complaints from what other county officals are saying.

He has been waiting behind all Processing/ Taxidermiy plants and knit picking everyone and looking for reasons to write tickets.

He wrote 9 tickets one evening at a particular processing place for NOT FILLING OUT your licence properly after you harvest a deer.

*If you are just tagging the deer that is not enough!!!*

If you fail to cut the date out *BAMM citation.....*

*If you fail to write the RANCH and COUNTY on the LICENCE ( not just the tag) BAMM citation!!!! which could cost you up to $500 bucks*...look in the TPWD book
(this is a fairly new reg and most have no idea about the law)

*NO and's if's or butts......and that includes the 67 year old lady that shot her 1st deer* cause her kids family was having trouble meeting ends cause that was the way her dad used to do it when they were poor.......preety crappy huh....

To make a long story short, know your rules inside and out, exspecially if your hunting in the vencity of Brownwood in Brown County......

BTW
My buddy, not me, got written a ticket for not filling out his license and even the other local GW said that it was unnessarcy for the tickets, but there was nothing that he could do, since money was what it really comes down to.....


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## Sace (May 21, 2004)

Flame me if I'm wrong...but by putting the ranch and county on your side of the license is to prevent people from using more tags than allowed for a particular county? And cutting the date out on a tag is so it can't be re-used? Sounds like he's just doing what he's paid to do...I know it's picky..but the reason why it's so particular is because there's a certain breed of hunter who feel they don't need to abide by the law set forth.


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## Freshwaterman (May 21, 2004)

I will just reply by quoting you.



Muddskipper said:


> The regs. are there for a reason,...


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## El Cazador (Mar 4, 2005)

I agree w/the last 2 posts. BTW, the rules of cutting out the date and filling the tag "properly" have been in place for a very long time. Ignorance has never been an excuse as far as TP&WD is concerned. Sorry!


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## Tealman (Sep 20, 2005)

If they are not breaking the law how are they getting tickets??? Just wondering!!! Get checked all the time duck and dove hunting and funny never get a ticket!!! wonder why!!


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## deke (Oct 5, 2004)

Easy Deputy Dogs. He knows the regs. he was just informing us of what was happening up there, he didn't want a lecture. He stated he tries to obey the regs. And no, not one of the three of you know all the regs. word for word. So easy on the "ignorance" blasts.

Mudd, thanks for the heads up, I don't hunt up there but I'm sure a few do from the board. We dealt with this up near Lubbock in the early 90's. A lady game warden(who played for the other team and hated men, it was obvious to her hatred and other wardens told us about the team affiliation) use to harrass duck hunters all the time. And yes there comes a point when checking people becomes harrassment. She would check your birds, gun for plug, your ammo, your decoy bag, your blind bag, then she would search the truck. Now being thourough is one thing, but pulling everything out of your truck even when she just checked you in the field and has been watching you and knows you havn't been back to the truck since you started hunting is a bit much. She would say, "I'll get you guys sometime" and "I know you are doing illegal stuff" with no evidence. 
She got so many complaints she was tranfered to Austin to a desk job. So I know what you are talking about Mudd.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

That policy of cutting dates etc. and putting county on tags is not new. Been going on for some time. You usually have a knife. Most of the time you dont have anything to write with.

Charlie


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## Freshwaterman (May 21, 2004)

deke said:


> Easy Deputy Dogs. He knows the regs. he was just informing us of what was happening up there, he didn't want a lecture. He stated he tries to obey the regs. And no, not one of the three of you know all the regs. word for word. So easy on the "ignorance" blasts.
> 
> Mudd, thanks for the heads up, I don't hunt up there but I'm sure a few do from the board. We dealt with this up near Lubbock in the early 90's. A lady game warden(who played for the other team and hated men, it was obvious to her hatred and other wardens told us about the team affiliation) use to harrass duck hunters all the time. And yes there comes a point when checking people becomes harrassment. She would check your birds, gun for plug, your ammo, your decoy bag, your blind bag, then she would search the truck. Now being thourough is one thing, but pulling everything out of your truck even when she just checked you in the field and has been watching you and knows you havn't been back to the truck since you started hunting is a bit much. She would say, "I'll get you guys sometime" and "I know you are doing illegal stuff" with no evidence.
> She got so many complaints she was tranfered to Austin to a desk job. So I know what you are talking about Mudd.


You hold up their deke. It is your responsibility to know the laws and rules associated with your quarry.

It's not that hard to be legal. I don't know if your implying it's to much work or that you have to be a rocket scientist to learn the rules. But either way your wrong.


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## Tealman (Sep 20, 2005)

Hey deke i never used the word ignorance and i wish you had not, when my friends go duck hunting we know the legal times the bag limits the shells, keeping the birds apart, having a plug, the duck stamps, ok when we talk to a GW we know we are walking away with a hand shake and telling them they are doing a great job!!! thats IT!!! what part do you not understand!!! It is every hunters part to understand the laws and if they cant figure it out call the right people to help with questions!!!


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## Tealman (Sep 20, 2005)

Agree gunnrod thanks, have a great season!!


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## sandman (May 21, 2004)

There have been many 'harrassment' posts about this particular GW for years. Most of the ones that I read were about bothering fishermen. I'm all for strict enforcement of the game laws but there is a fine line that from what I've read about this guy, he tends to cross often.


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## garrettryan (Oct 11, 2004)

First the Duck Patrol... Then their was the Kitty Patrol... Now it is the GW Patrol... I am sure that no one here has driven 56 in a 55.. Warnings are to educate... Tickets are to Punish.. One should come before the other... 

Stay legal, but I agree this GW (They do have a lot of power, more than police) is a bit out of hand. I guess he is forgot that he is suppose to be a good ole boy from Texas.. Maybe he quit smoking or quit drinking.. Just agitated...


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## El Cazador (Mar 4, 2005)

deke said:


> Easy Deputy Dogs. He knows the regs. he was just informing us of what was happening up there, he didn't want a lecture. He stated he tries to obey the regs. And no, not one of the three of you know all the regs. word for word. So easy on the "ignorance" blasts.
> 
> Mudd, thanks for the heads up, I don't hunt up there but I'm sure a few do from the board. We dealt with this up near Lubbock in the early 90's. A lady game warden(who played for the other team and hated men, it was obvious to her hatred and other wardens told us about the team affiliation) use to harrass duck hunters all the time. And yes there comes a point when checking people becomes harrassment. She would check your birds, gun for plug, your ammo, your decoy bag, your blind bag, then she would search the truck. Now being thourough is one thing, but pulling everything out of your truck even when she just checked you in the field and has been watching you and knows you havn't been back to the truck since you started hunting is a bit much. She would say, "I'll get you guys sometime" and "I know you are doing illegal stuff" with no evidence.
> She got so many complaints she was tranfered to Austin to a desk job. So I know what you are talking about Mudd.


Deke, I'm the one that use the "I" word but it was not meant to be deragatory. FYI, I wasn't implying that the hunters that were being harrassed were "stupid"; just uninformed.

But you have to understand where (sometimes) the GW's are coming from. After checking licenses on 9 or more "uninformed" hunters, the excuse "I didn't know that was the law", I'm sure gets a little old. Remember that they are doing the job that they are getting paid to do.

Sometimes I have to remind myself of that same thing, because I get checked everytime I'm heading north from Baffin Bay. I know it gets old but someone has to keep us honest.

And by the way, don't come off all righteous and then start "blasting" a law enforcement officer who you say "played for the other team and hated men". I'm sure you didn't even know the story 1st hand about her. I'm sure _she_ was just doing _her_ job.


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## RubenZamora (Oct 19, 2005)

I agree, I dont see what the big deal about filling out your info is. Takes less than 5 min.

He's doing what he's paid to do.


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## Coastaltim (Sep 9, 2004)

this may start some **** but the game warden knows when you are trying to do something shady or if someone made a mistake. I don't see how the guys here are saying that the game warden is just doing his job. He wrote unecessary tickets. I know that there is a need for game wardens and laws. I understand that but I don't agree with getting a ticket for petty things or obvious mistakes. I also have a problem with authority that takes advantage of their power. Sounds like there is no road hunting trapping running of dogs or any of the stuff hunters do illegally. Not hide out at the taxidermy or meat processor. 

Sorry if I offend anyone.

Tim


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## BEER4BAIT (Jun 24, 2005)

Yup, IMO hiding out at a meet locker or tax. is a show of lazyness. Most good GW's are in the field where the cases are made. Don't get this wrong they have to inspect them but camping on the front step is like checking fisherman at the ramp or a trouper sitting in a bar parking lot.


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## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

To me it wouldn't matter if the GW was hiding in a tree, or in the freezer at the packing plant. If the information you are required to fill out on a license tag is complete then it wouldn't matter if the guy was freezing his nuts off in the cooler or fighting off man eating squirrels in the tree.

The log on the back of each license and the boxes to check whether or not a spike was killed are about the only new things on a license that I know of.

I've known a lot of prickish law enforcement officers in my time and I've known a lot of prickish fishermen and hunters too. But the fact of the matter is that if you follow the rules there's nothing to worry about.

Thanks for the heads up about the GW. Hope he enjoys retirement, lol.

TH


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## RubenZamora (Oct 19, 2005)

exactly. Reminds me of all the people complaining about security cams and their privacy. If you're not doing anything wrong who cares.


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## LIONESS-270 (May 19, 2005)

Good Thread....I'm bettin that there are many...many hunters who are not aware of the new Regs on tagging and filling in info on their hunting lisc....

As far as Law enforcement goes..."there is the Letter of the Law...and the Spirit of the Law" and I have met both types of Game Wardens over the years.....Its just a good reminder and some important info to everyone......

I knew a young Cajun boy who bought his school clothes in the 8th and 9th grade by outlawing alligators......He put a Gator head in the local wardens front yard after a close call or two....I can't recall his name though.

Just like any officer.....Police...Game...Military...I respect to Job they do....And you will always find a couple that are just plain Chicken#&*#@
It is what IT IS...thanks for the Heads-Up and some good reading...


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## Muddskipper (Dec 29, 2004)

Wow...I am a little surprised about the replies on my RANT and warning....

To futher explain my buddies Tag was filled out and attached properly, but he did not fill out the licence on the back.

I understand you can reuse tags and take more of your fair share.

But if this guy is only writing only that type of citation, there might be a little more than a law being broke, IMHO it comes down to education. I know he taught all those that got the ticket an expensive lesson, but cmon.....$500 bucks for tagging the deer properly but not writing it on your license. 

BTW
I apperciate and respect everyones opinion and replies.
I was on a rant but also trying to spread the word about this, since there was so many law breakers out there getting tickets.


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## James Howell (May 21, 2004)

Mudskipper, for the record, when the whitetail log became part of the license (last year or the year before, I can't remember), TPWD didn't give tickets the first year, just warnings. I know for a fact that this year the word was no more warnings, if the log isn't filled out, instant ticket. So, the learning curve was last year.


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## troy merrill (May 21, 2004)

I believe you still get to talk to the judge about the ticket. Perhaps you can get some relief there.

I have seen overzealous game wardens before, they are a pain in the arse. 

Thanks for the info Mudd. I don't hunt in that area, but I find it helpful to be reminded about what they look for. We do our best to dot i's and cross t's, but sometimes you misstep.


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## El Cazador (Mar 4, 2005)

Muddskipper, thanks for the heads-up! I'm sure there are a few people on this thread that are _now _aware of the log on the back of the license that because of your post, will not be getting cited for not filling their tags properly. Thanks again!


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## DANCO (Aug 12, 2005)

ha ha i see ya'll found out about "leroy". he has ben doing that in that county for years. my best friends father has a ranch in Brady. the first time we went huntig there he warned us about him. you should hear the horror stories.


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## Capt. Sandbar (Jun 12, 2004)

thanks for the heads up, BUT
I know a lot of GW (I do not know this particular one), and yes there are some that are a little too hard on people. With that said, I also think that we forget that the GW has the choice to do nothing, warn, cite, or jail people. It should be common sense that if you are anything less than VERY POLITE, it could cost you. Our actions often decide our fate.

Breaking the law is just that, the old "why aren't you out catching poachers, or dog runners, or night hunters, or anybody else" doesn't work; you still broke the law.

Most GW I know will let you slide on the harvest log, ranch name, and county, until you get to your vehicle(pen). As for the date, use your teeth, a rock, a stick, or something, because that will cost you.

GW have to check commercial facilities in their area. There is nothing wrong with spending a few days at the processor to get the word out; that way they may not have to come back for a while. A boat ramp is the same; the GW needs to be seen at ramps, sometimes for several days in a row.

I also know that most of the time there is more than one violation, even if you don't know it (ignorance). You get a citation for the one charge that is being pushed at the time, and a warning (verbal or written) for the other one or ones; that sounds great to me, seeing that all the violations could be citations.

It is not that hard to stay legal and polite, and if you play the game right, he may help you out in filling your ice chest.


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## TXPalerider (May 21, 2004)

Good informative post MudSkipper.

I think we've probably all failed/forgotten to follow the letter of the law a time or two in our lives. I don't hunt the area. But, this served as a nice reminder to me. Thanks.


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## Sace (May 21, 2004)

Along the same line....last year in Rocksprings...had a Game Warden come into camp.....the owner and myself leave a set of boots and some gear at the Cabin all the time....week prior to seeing the Warden he had shot a nice buck...I helped him clean it...got blood on my "camp boots" well GW shows up the next week...we show him everything he asks for....he gets very inquisitive on all ice chests, cleaning rack, trash, and is pretty rude in the process...asks me "did you shoot anything?" I say "No, saw a few"...he says "Bucks"...I reply "yeah...but not quite what I want" he comes back with "oh so you're picky about the deer you kill, huh" and gives me the "yeah right" look....well he explains that he notices the blood on my boots and wants to know where the deer is...I explain it's a week old..he doesn't believe me...but license is filled out correctly...and he can't find anything wrong...he wasn't polite...we was accusing...but he left without giving a warning or citation....I told him I hope he catches the bad guys...which I sincerely meant...and was a little jab for his attitude..but again..I totally support what he's doing...it's gotta be tough when there's only a few Wardens for a whole county and from what I understand there sometimes only a Warden or two for multiple counties....I'm sure it's frustrating for them also...I just feel if I ever get a ticket for a mistake I made...then I'll pay it and press on...I hope it doesn't happen...I hope I don't make a mistake and if I do I hope he let's me slide..but if I screw up...I'll take the ticket, pay it...might talk about is mom a bit..and press on...there's more deer out there with my name on them...I think??????


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## Seemorehinie (Aug 12, 2005)

Question Sace, was that Cody Hatfield (GW in Rocksprings). He has come to my place several times this year and has really been polite and courteous towards me and my boys. Not sure if he worked that area (Edwards county) last year, but I can see Border Bandit is teaming with him on his mis-hap red stag poach on his Cueva Ranch. Like I said am just curious. Thanks.



Sace said:


> Along the same line....last year in Rocksprings...had a Game Warden come into camp.....the owner and myself leave a set of boots and some gear at the Cabin all the time....week prior to seeing the Warden he had shot a nice buck...I helped him clean it...got blood on my "camp boots" well GW shows up the next week...we show him everything he asks for....he gets very inquisitive on all ice chests, cleaning rack, trash, and is pretty rude in the process...asks me "did you shoot anything?" I say "No, saw a few"...he says "Bucks"...I reply "yeah...but not quite what I want" he comes back with "oh so you're picky about the deer you kill, huh" and gives me the "yeah right" look....well he explains that he notices the blood on my boots and wants to know where the deer is...I explain it's a week old..he doesn't believe me...but license is filled out correctly...and he can't find anything wrong...he wasn't polite...we was accusing...but he left without giving a warning or citation....I told him I hope he catches the bad guys...which I sincerely meant...and was a little jab for his attitude..but again..I totally support what he's doing...it's gotta be tough when there's only a few Wardens for a whole county and from what I understand there sometimes only a Warden or two for multiple counties....I'm sure it's frustrating for them also...I just feel if I ever get a ticket for a mistake I made...then I'll pay it and press on...I hope it doesn't happen...I hope I don't make a mistake and if I do I hope he let's me slide..but if I screw up...I'll take the ticket, pay it...might talk about is mom a bit..and press on...there's more deer out there with my name on them...I think??????


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## drred4 (Aug 12, 2005)

As far as filling out the log area on the back of your license, I believe that was started 3 years ago. I had a couple a friends that did not hunt the first year of its inception. Well, the next year the GW's were cutting out alot of the warnings for not filling out that section. I am sure they are getting tougher this year. I would give a warning if for instance if this was their first animal this year and maybe checking others in the camp(if their were any) to see if they were properly filling out the info. Also would probably give a warning if they had killed previous game and did fill out the info then. Have to feel the person out you are dealing with though. 

anyways 

Damian


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## Sace (May 21, 2004)

Seemore...ummm...not sure what his name was but he was a younger, medium build white boy like myself...like I said earlier..he didn't make me mad...but I did feel like he had judged me or one of us guilty as soon as he got there....but I believe he was just doing his job...I'm sure it's a tough job..and some days are better than others....


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## gulfeagle (May 23, 2005)

Hey Mudskipper. Welcome to Brown County!!! Yes our man here has been stirring the pot here for quite a few years. Made a lot of enemies. Some deserved and some not. But rank has no privilege here in Brown Co. Some cool tales of who he has busted here. My dealings have been AOK but I have known of other circumstances that well........... There have been more than a couple of letters to the editor from out-of-towners who have lamented his exploits. He has driven some vacationers from Lake Brownwood for good. Like I said, some deserved and some well............... But I will have to say that if you are gonna pay someone a modest wage to oversee your natural resources then all in all we have had quite a bargain with this man. But you better be on the up and up constantly in Brown County! Even with all the complaints in the past (+-) 20 years this fellow has been bulletproof to complaints from citizens. I would only have to guess that his superiors see him as very effective in his position. Where are you hunting up here, Mudskipper? My son snagged an 8 that scored 129 6/8 first day back from college last week.


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## deke (Oct 5, 2004)

Tealman you didn't use the word ignorance, nor did I say you did. El Cazador did, then congratulated him in a later post? HUH?
quote "what part do you not understand" Did I say I didn't understand how to carry ducks out of the field? 

El Cazador, "don't come off righteous"? isn't that calling the kettle black. Since were one of thr first to jump all over this guy, who was just trying to inform. Oh and since you are the PC police as well, yes we did have first hand knowlege of her "affiliation" so if that bothers you, oh well.


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## Tealman (Sep 20, 2005)

Hey deke you are correct, maybe i should take that back? But here is the scoop if you do not break the law can a GW give you a ticket!!! Thats all i want to say and i wish everyong reading this post will help keep our fishing and hunting resources in texas alive and well!!! Teach friends and children the right way to enjoy the outdoors!!!!! hey deke have a merry xmas and happy newyear!!PEACE


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## Family Style (Jun 15, 2004)

I hunt around lake Brownwood and have never seen the famous Leroy of Brownwood.Our camp can be seen from the road so it surprizes me that he has not showed up.


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## deke (Oct 5, 2004)

Teal, I'm with you. Merry Christmas!


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## Muddskipper (Dec 29, 2004)

gulfeagle said:


> Hey Mudskipper. Welcome to Brown County!!! ....... Where are you hunting up here, Mudskipper? My son snagged an 8 that scored 129 6/8 first day back from college last week.


We hunt on my buddies families land. "Pierce Ranch"

His family has had land up there for more than a 100 years and the state reconized his family for the 100 yr working farm.

I'v personally never shot anything of any significance but I love going up there.

Beutiful land near the Lake and Tons of deer.


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## ToTuff (Aug 25, 2004)

*Gw*

Our place is in Brown County, And I met the famous man you guy's speak of!
He is a jerk. We break no laws and yes we fill-out tags and the register as he calls it. He has been moved to a desk job several times for harassment! He worked hard to catch us breaking the law, we of course were not. When I spoke to him he was rude, I tried to make small talk and he was still rude. I told him I was a teacher and he said, "teachers,cops and preachers were the worse law-breakers. Enough for me, I understand doing you job but this guy is a mess!
Just my experience!


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## batman (Sep 6, 2004)

Several years ago we leased in Brown county. And had dealings with LeRoy several times. He is not the friendliest guy around by no means but he always treated us fairly. He even came on some of us coming into camp with an untagged buck and only gave us a stern warning. We were always respectful to him.


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## wet dreams (May 21, 2004)

I ran into a new one last yr and voiced my complaint here and was flamed by several members for violating the law which in my opinion I DID NOT. Some of the new ones learn pretty quick hunters ARE their friends and will help if needed, BUT the one on this thread WILL NOT get any from the 'legal' hunters he has harrassed. In yrs past MOST of the times you were stopped you were guilty until you proved otherwise. Rod Ousley is our head GW in the Beaumont area and was raised in Spring, he came up thru the ranks with his first assignment here in the Bmt office. He used to come by our Taxidermist-Deer processing plant on occasion BUT not to check hunters, he was wanting to see where the better deer were comming from and maybe a cup of coffee. When he first started, the TPW had changed the way you marked your 'kill date' on your tags. They had changed from "cut OR mark out" date to "cut out" I watched him on a cpl of occasions take a deer that had been brought in and explain the new law to some hunters and cut out their date WITHOUT issuing a citation. I ?? him on this and he told me he just made a friend and some day they mite help him. His practices then, led to the job he has now, and he is well respected by most of the hunters and the guys under him in the Bmt office. WW


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## rem260man (Jan 17, 2005)

Thanks for the "heads up" Mudd.. I thought everyone was thankful for a "buddy" watching your back wether it needs it or not. I know I am!!!


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## TooShallow (May 21, 2004)

I met a real nice GW last weekend. He came into our camp on Webb Point (SA Bay) and was very courteous. His name is McLeod and he talked with us for a while. He measured a 27.5" red and checked the license of the person who was manning the rods at that point in time. Since we are right outside ANWR gate I asked him about hunting ducks in the slough behind camp. He said it was fine and proceeded to tell me what could and could not be shot and even the limits on particular species. A very nice GW. If you meet up with this man you will be impressed with his courteous and professional nature.


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## Bucksnort (Jun 29, 2004)

Well there ya have it folks. You gotta obey the law in Brown county or the long arm of the GW will get ya.


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