# Can somebody lose their salvation?



## Fish&Chips

I have always believed that you can. What do you guys believe and why?


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## Reel Time

Fish&Chips said:


> I have always believed that you can. What do you guys believe and why?


IMHO once a person *truly* gives their life to Christ that they are a new creature. You are "born again". So no, I do not believe that you can lose your salvation once you are saved. If someone lives their life in a way that is not "Christ-like", I believe that they were not saved in the first place. I am not saying that Christians do not sin, we all do. I am saying that we do our best to live our lives in a way that is pleasing to God. I am not one to judge however, that is between that person and God.


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## Bill Gammel

Adrian Rodgers spoke about today on the radio. I thought it was good. http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/love-worth-finding/

I agree with Reel Time.


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## webfisher3

Yes. We don't have to maintain good works in order to remain in Jesus (although the Bible teaches that if we really are in Christ then our lives will show it and good works will be present, Titus 2:11-12, Titus 3:8, 2 Timothy 3:17). Nor do we "lose" our salvation each time we sin. But what I don't find in the Bible is the idea that after we accept Jesus, then we can live any kind of a sinful lifestyle that we want to and never repent and still expect to be in heaven. God won't forgive us unless we want Him to. Of course, we can only repent through the power of Jesus and He will forgive any sin that we confess to Him (1 John 1:9). So the only people who "turn their backs on Christ" are those that fully return to a life of sin and never seek to turn back and be forgiven.


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## Fish&Chips

webfisher3 said:


> Yes. We don't have to maintain good works in order to remain in Jesus (although the Bible teaches that if we really are in Christ then our lives will show it and good works will be present, Titus 2:11-12, Titus 3:8, 2 Timothy 3:17). Nor do we "lose" our salvation each time we sin. But what I don't find in the Bible is the idea that after we accept Jesus, then we can live any kind of a sinful lifestyle that we want to and never repent and still expect to be in heaven. God won't forgive us unless we want Him to. Of course, we can only repent through the power of Jesus and He will forgive any sin that we confess to Him (1 John 1:9). So the only people who "turn their backs on Christ" are those that fully return to a life of sin and never seek to turn back and be forgiven.


That makes sense. I read somebody's thoughts on this yesterday and they said that you can't lose your salvation but you can reject it. You can reject it by returning to a life of sin and not honoring God. So then "once saved, always saved" is probably not correct. After all it is sin that separates us from God. Also the bible does mention that returning to sin is like a dog returning to it's vomit.


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## Bill Gammel

This is a good conversation. If you read the parable of the soils Matt 13 3-9. You will see people of four types. So hardened to God that the word (seed) is not received. One who spouts, grows quick, but does not form roots. One who grows so closely aligned with the weeds that he is choked out. The last one falls on good soil and provides good fruit. 

Three of those people prayed a sinners prayer, maybe baptized, and think they are Christian. Two of them the shallow root and choked by weeds end up falling away from the word and produce no fruit. Were they saved and then unsaved or were they never really saved? I don't know. I feel like their commitment could be questioned in the first place. In the weeds, if you truly repent of your old ways you get out of the weeds, at least until you are strong enough to go back and help the weeds. 

I feel that if you have a truly fruit bearing salvation you will never lose it. Stumble yes, but that will truly grieve you and you will repent again. 

I hope this helps a bit.


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## JenniBear

I believe that if you confess Christ as your Lord and Savior, and then turn around and your life does not reflect the changes that should take place in your life as a result, then you're not really a Christian to begin with. In that case, you never had salvation. 

The Lord knows whether you are a Christian or aren't. We are not to judge UNbelievers. If they are acting like an unbeliever, then chances are, they are.

If you confess Christ and your life is changing to honor Him, then you are a Christian. It doesn't all happen right away, but the motive in our hearts has to be that we are to honor Him with our lives. We still sin, we still stumble and don't get it right, but we cry out to Him, confess to Him our sin, repent, and He will forgive us. 

King David comes to mind. He stole someone's wife, had the man killed, his baby died, his children committed grievous acts against one another as a result of his sin. But, he was declared "a man after God's own heart." Why? He cried out to the Lord, confessed his sin, repented, and the Lord forgave him. Our 'lesser' degrees of sin are no different to the Lord. He requires the same of us as His children.


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## webfisher3

First, let me say that to be a "Christian" all you have to do is believe in God. There are plenty of "unsaved" Christians who will have to answer for their deeds. 

Salvation is the saving of the soul from sin and its consequences. A dying sinner can find salvation on his deathbed if he repents of his sins and gives his heart to God. In the Book of Job, Job never repented of any particular sin or activity when he went through his major dilemma. The Hebrew term _teshuvah_ (lit. "return") is used to refer to "repentance". This implies that transgression and sin are the natural and inevitable consequence of man's straying from God and His laws, and that it is man's destiny and duty to be with God. The Bible states that God's loving-kindness is extended to the returning sinner. 

In John 3:7 Jesus said "Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit." In other words - when we are born, we aren't spiritual.

Without a spiritual connection to God, we follow the impulses of our bodies. We do what feels good. There is nothing inherently sinful about our emotions or bodily pleasures. Sin is a commitment to what pleases us without regard to God's will.

To "lose your salvation" you would have to turn completely away from Him after seeking salvation or to never seek Him at all.


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## Fish&Chips

*What about Judas Iscariot?*

Judas spent time with Jesus and the other disciples. He was one of the twelve. But something crept into his heart and separated him from God. He had plenty of opportunity to repent and be reconciled to God, but he chose to make a quick buck and betray Jesus.


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## Seeker

No. Logic tells us if you have it, you would never lose it. If the question has to be raised, the person needs to ask oneself, "was I saved in the first place?". Now, all saved people sin. Some call it back-sliding. Yes, we all back-slide (everybody). We choose the "LEGALISTIC" approach to sin because God turned humans over to their own sadistic ways a long time ago.It's an old story..take my word for it... remember Adam and eve? God gives humans over to degeneracy. None of us pathetic humans are righteous, no not one. Once you surrender, your life will change. It is a promise! If you are under Adam, you must be born. If you are under Jesus, you must be born again. Read Romans 5. It is pretty straight foreword.. Thoughts?


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## Seeker

By the way Bill G. we are known as "SAGES" or at least I am. Seeking God on a daily basis. Reading his word. Understanding things that are meaningless to the lost. I beg for the good lord to open my eyes. Boy, with what I just went through... be very careful for what you ask for. God allows things to happen.. both good and bad. Learn from it. He is teaching you something. That is how we turn into "SAGES". In his time, in his way..he makes things right. Even if we get the final call home.


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## grassman

I like to "self convict" and the way I do that is by checking myself against the disciples and apostles. If you want to know if you have salvation list out on paper how you have surrendered. Can you list changes in your life, how deep are your roots or are they shallow. 
Remember Satan believes in God. He actually had a face to face conversation with Him. Satan also quotes scripture which means he knows the bible better than most. So we cant use bible knowledge or the fact that we believe, because that is no better than Satan.
Can you actually right down on paper how you have suffered for Christ the way the apostles and disciples did. It may come across "legalistic" but its a good way to check our actions against what comes out of our mouth.


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## Seeker

Why do people feel salvation has to be earned? Grace was given at the cross. It's over. It's done. He took your sins and cast them as far as the east is to the west. 
It is a sin not to accept it as it is. You now have full access to the father.. provided by the blood of Jesus. Believe this after you accept him as your personal savior and you will be saved by his "GRACE". The choice to believe is yours.... Ask yourself.. "If I died right now, will Jesus find your name in the book of life? Will he allow you into heaven? Those of us who are saved know what we are talking about but God will have the last word. Don't cut yourself short because you thought this or that. Know. Own it.


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## grassman

Seeker you are right. Grace was given at the cross to those who believe. Belief to me is more than just a feeling. To truly believe a person will be a new person and that change will be clearly seen by the outside world through his/her actions.

A cook is not a cook if he doesnt cook
A fishermen fishes
An athlete is athletic
A doctor practices medicine
A mom is motherly
A dad is fatherly
A worker works


A Christian is a follower of Christ and stives to be Christ like. We are sinful by nature and have to constantly fight that off. It takes work (works) to be Christ like. 

I believe based on my readings Christianity is a verb not a noun.

Faith without works is dead. 

Seeker-thanks for being bold in your faith


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## Seeker

Grassman you are exactly right. We all have "GOD" given talents. We did not choose them. God allows them. But, as Christians we are to give God the glory and we will receive his blessings. Boast in knowledge that gives God glory. 
Scripture that I will ask everyone on this board to read and understand where I come from. How I believe. Why I will allways give God the glory for whatever I say.

1 Corinthians 15 vrs 10 and 11. 

It is my humbling pray for everyone on this board to finish life strong in Christ whether it is tonight, tomorrow, next week or 80 years from now. I pray that your faith will never fail you. Trust in God, seek his face, humble yourselves, learn what God graces you with everyday. Know that he is in control of "ALL" things. We all will see things a little differently. We will all say things a little differently but everything we say and do in our lives should be to give God all of the glory he so deserves. He is alive, he is everywhere. One thing I have asked God to do over the past few years of my life is to show me his glory. Open my eyes to things I normally would miss. Learn so I can be a Sage in my older years. I want to finish this life strong. Knowing when I close my eyes for the last time I will wake only to be face to face with the one who has blessed me with his 'GRACE". That is how I "KNOW" I am a Christian. 

In this world today, Christians have to be strong. It is my job to tell people there is hope in a world that is, how can I say this... literally gone to hell.. people the rapture is close. We are living in the times that all of the worlds past Christians would have loved to be living in. The last days. Look at what all has happened in the past 4 years. Christians are being persecuted more today than ever and if you are not feeling the persecution then I would question whether you are acting Christ-like period. Being a Christian is tough today. Where ever you are. Thoughts?


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## Fish&Chips

Seeker, does this not apply to somebody who is saved and then turns his back on God?

2 Peter 2:
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.


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## Seeker

Fish&Chips said:


> Seeker, does this not apply to somebody who is saved and then turns his back on God?
> 
> 2 Peter 2:
> 20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
> 21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
> 22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.


Interesting.. Even though, chapter 2 here is all about false teachers we can take 20, 21 and 22 out of the context and discuss it.

As I read it, and I understand it. I will beg for forgiveness should I state this wrong but I will let the holy spirit give me direction.

Peter is speaking of "people who have learned about Christ and how to be saved.. BUT.. then reject the truth and return to their sin. It doesn't specifically say, "People who accept or have accepted Christ then reject the truth and then return to their sin..

I think the difference lies here. 
Learned about Christ and those who accept and/or have accepted Christ.

Different bibles say it a little differently but when you get down to the translations, look at this as if it is glorifying Christ first above all. I can see a person who is exposed to the goodness of Christ and understands thoroughly that to accept him you will be giving up the dark nature "SIN" of this life we humans love, hold, cherish, embrace, worship.. 
and then make the sovereign choice God gives us not to accept him for what he is "The King Of Glory".. 
By rejecting God knowing you just let "self" control your destiny by telling God.. "You know what. I'm God. I make the choices. Good or Bad! I do not need you, your saving grace, your goodness, your heaven, your eternity or what ever you have to offer here.. who cares. I, me, self.. I control this thing. I will do it my way.

These people, these are the ones, they are worse off than they were before understanding. The door was opened. They chose to close it by their own sovereign choice. They have rejected the only way out of sin, the only way to salvation... hence these people are worse off than before. Now they know, but choose not to accept and return to sin.

Let's say this person was sinking in quicksand. He knows he will die a slow death by sinking into the sand. He looks up, and Christ is there and ties a rope around his waist . You look at him and say "Thanks.. but no thanks..you know what there Mr. Christ. I got this. I don't want your help. Christ then ties the rope around you again. You feel that well then Mr. smarty pants Christ. Stop it. I do not want your help. He looks at you square in the eye and says fine. And walks away. You slowly sink to a miserable death. How could you turn his help away? It goes with the proverb : As a dog returns to his own vomit or a washed pig will return to mud. Humans turn to sin in the same very fashion. We are human. Un-Righteous, filthy, sin loving humans that embraces evil without even thinking about it.

This scripture is about knowing and rejecting and not accepting, accepted and fall back to sinful ways. Gods grace covers those sins. It is not and will not be extended to those who reject him in this lifetime prior to death.

This is how I understand it. Lord I ask for forgivenes if I have explained this wrong. You know I try to glorify your name in everything I say. I am not perfect and I do not claim to be. I just want others to know just how awsome you are. In your own time, in your own way, for reasons only you know. Blessings. I can not thank you enough. Seeking your face, in Jesus holy name amen.


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## atcfisherman

Seeker said:


> Interesting.. Even though, chapter 2 here is all about false teachers we can take 20, 21 and 22 out of the context and discuss it.
> 
> As I read it, and I understand it. I will beg for forgiveness should I state this wrong but I will let the holy spirit give me direction.
> 
> Peter is speaking of "people who have learned about Christ and how to be saved.. BUT.. then reject the truth and return to their sin. It doesn't specifically say, "People who accept or have accepted Christ then reject the truth and then return to their sin..
> 
> I think the difference lies here.
> Learned about Christ and those who accept and/or have accepted Christ.
> 
> Different bibles say it a little differently but when you get down to the translations, look at this as if it is glorifying Christ first above all. I can see a person who is exposed to the goodness of Christ and understands thoroughly that to accept him you will be giving up the dark nature "SIN" of this life we humans love, hold, cherish, embrace, worship..
> and then make the sovereign choice God gives us not to accept him for what he is "The King Of Glory"..
> By rejecting God knowing you just let "self" control your destiny by telling God.. "You know what. I'm God. I make the choices. Good or Bad! I do not need you, your saving grace, your goodness, your heaven, your eternity or what ever you have to offer here.. who cares. I, me, self.. I control this thing. I will do it my way.
> 
> These people, these are the ones, they are worse off than they were before understanding. The door was opened. They chose to close it by their own sovereign choice. They have rejected the only way out of sin, the only way to salvation... hence these people are worse off than before. Now they know, but choose not to accept and return to sin.
> 
> Let's say this person was sinking in quicksand. He knows he will die a slow death by sinking into the sand. He looks up, and Christ is there and ties a rope around his waist . You look at him and say "Thanks.. but no thanks..you know what there Mr. Christ. I got this. I don't want your help. Christ then ties the rope around you again. You feel that well then Mr. smarty pants Christ. Stop it. I do not want your help. He looks at you square in the eye and says fine. And walks away. You slowly sink to a miserable death. How could you turn his help away? It goes with the proverb : As a dog returns to his own vomit or a washed pig will return to mud. Humans turn to sin in the same very fashion. We are human. Un-Righteous, filthy, sin loving humans that embraces evil without even thinking about it.
> 
> This scripture is about knowing and rejecting and not accepting, accepted and fall back to sinful ways. Gods grace covers those sins. It is not and will not be extended to those who reject him in this lifetime prior to death.
> 
> This is how I understand it. Lord I ask for forgivenes if I have explained this wrong. You know I try to glorify your name in everything I say. I am not perfect and I do not claim to be. I just want others to know just how awsome you are. In your own time, in your own way, for reasons only you know. Blessings. I can not thank you enough. Seeking your face, in Jesus holy name amen.


From what you wrote, I think that is correct. Good examples.


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## Seeker

Let me ask this question. I never thought about it because I have never been asked the question before. By asking this question, I do not, let me repeat it.. I do not recommend or support suicide period. Nobody said this life would be easy, just worth it! Finish strong.

"Where in the Bible does it say or state that humans can not take their own life?" 

I was asked the question recently and I could not answer it with scriture backing. I can give reasons not to, I can support it in generalizations. Pro's and Con's but I can not support it with specific scripture. After reading the Bible from front cover to back cover in a year, I am lost for wisdom. Any thoughts?


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## Fish&Chips

Seeker what you said makes sense but at the same time I believe there are scriptures that seem to support either side. One thing for sure is that our salvation is not dependant on which side we believe. Thanks for your response.


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## grassman

I think this covers it:

Hebrews 10:26

For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins.

grassmanology:

Jesus is no longer available a sacrifice for our sins. Your salvation is lost.

Hebrews 6:4-6

*For it is impossible* for those who were once enlightened and have tasted the heavenly gift and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit and have tasted the good work of God and the powers of the age to come if they fall away, _*to renew them again to repentance*_, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.


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## atcfisherman

grassman said:


> I think this covers it:
> 
> Hebrews 10:26
> 
> For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins.
> 
> grassmanology:
> 
> Jesus is no longer available a sacrifice for our sins. Your salvation is lost.
> 
> Hebrews 6:4-6
> 
> *For it is impossible* for those who were once enlightened and have tasted the heavenly gift and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit and have tasted the good work of God and the powers of the age to come if they fall away, _*to renew them again to repentance*_, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.


So if one willingly sins like someone addicted to **** or drugs or getting drunk, then they lost their salvation? 1 John 1:9 says if we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us of our since and cleanse us from our unrightnesous.

That is not to say we must not strive to be perfect and not sin, but where do you draw the line at what sins and when do you loose your salvation? I think the quote above from Hebrews is putting a "hypothetical" argurment out there that if it were possible to loose your salvation, then there is no other means to be saved.

Also, if we can loose our salvation, then that means we must be doing something to keep it. Salvation is through Jesus Christ and His atoning sacarfrice and nothing else. If it were something else, then salvation would be Jesus + ______ saves.

Now this leads to the question of was the person truly saved in the first place. I struggle each day, but I am daily reminded that His strength is perfect when I'm weak and He carries me through, I don't! If I can loose my salvation, then it's becomes a works based salvation just like other religions.


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## grassman

I used those versus to answer the question "can you lose your salvation." According to scripture you can. But read it closely, it says "if you fall away." 
To fall away there almost needs to be conscience move away from the Lord.

Also it is important for us to seperate our sin nature and an outright sin where we willfully ignore Jesus and His Word an do something anway.


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## atcfisherman

grassman said:


> I used those versus to answer the question "can you lose your salvation." According to scripture you can. But read it closely, it says "if you fall away."
> To fall away there almost needs to be conscience move away from the Lord.
> 
> Also it is important for us to seperate our sin nature and an outright sin where we willfully ignore Jesus and His Word an do something anway.


I understand. BTW, I've thought of this often and one question that always pops us is how does one know if and when they "cross the line" of no return, if it's even possible? I mean, suppose you are a christian and have been for awhile and strive to live according to what the Holy Spirit says through God's word, etc. And suppose you were additiced to say drugs or **** before you were saved and you haven't been able to "kick" the habit." Does that mean you lost your salvation and can't be "resaved?" I was asked that question awhile back with these two examples.


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## Fish&Chips

atcfisherman said:


> I understand. BTW, I've thought of this often and one question that always pops us is how does one know if and when they "cross the line" of no return, if it's even possible? I mean, suppose you are a christian and have been for awhile and strive to live according to what the Holy Spirit says through God's word, etc. And suppose you were additiced to say drugs or **** before you were saved and you haven't been able to "kick" the habit." Does that mean you lost your salvation and can't be "resaved?" I was asked that question awhile back with these two examples.


Atcfisherman, this thread popped into my mind, so I am going to respond to your post above. If someone truly is striving to live for God and they find themselves struggling with a certain sin, God will forgive them. If that person's heart is truly repentant and only God and that person would know. Through prayer and fasting, God will eventually give that person the victory over that sin. At the same time, if somebody repents and keeps on willfully dabbling in sin, that is a dangerous game. And nobody knows where God will draw the line. I just know that I would not want to find out. Like the bible says, God gave them over to a reprobate mind because that is what they wanted. *Grassman* really had some good info above and I agree with his posts. So I do believe that a Christian can lose their salvation.


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## jdipper1

I would like to comment on two questions this thread brings up. I am not a learned person of the Bible, but I read and study it every day.

1. Yes you can loose your salvation. When you are saved by the grace of GOD through Jesus, you put a target on yourself for satin. Satin will test you and try and turn you away from Jesus. He tested Jobe, how much more will he test us once we have accepted Jesus?

2. I believe if you comit suicide then you have commited the sin of murder and cannot ask forgiveness.

Just my opinions.

GOD Bless,
John


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## Fish&Chips

That is true John, when you are born again, there is a target on you and the enemy is very upset. He will try to deceive you and separate you from God.

*James 1:14*
*But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. *

Suicide is a very touchy subject. The bible talks about the sancity of life. It also says that God is the author of life and only he can give it and take it. When one takes their own life, they have lost faith in God. Is it murder? I believe so, it is taking of a life that God has created for his glory. And you are correct in that someone can't repent of it. They have stepped into eternity.


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## Fish&Chips

*John 10:28*
*And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. *

Nobody can take us out of God's hand but we have free will to choose. We can be lead away. While we are in this flesh, it will be a continual battle between the flesh and the spirit.


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## Jiggin Junkie

*Hebrews 6:4-6*

New King James Version (NKJV)

4 For _it is_ impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away,[a] to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put _Him_ to an open shame.


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## Jiggin Junkie

*Luke 9:62*

New King James Version (NKJV)

62 But Jesus said to him, "No one, having put his hand to the plow, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God."


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## atcfisherman

I think the bible has evidence for "once saved always saved" and warnings for falling away. I think God did not clearly say "once saved always saved" because there would be many who once got saved, would continue sinning or sit back and relax because they would know they were saved and were secure. 

But since God has in the bible warnings about falling away and thus it makes us wonder if we could lose our salvation, then we are more "on guard" about not falling away. It is mor like God wanted us to stay focus once we were saved and not become complacent. 

Either way, one could make a biblical case for both sides, and because of that, we should always strive to live Christ like every day. 


In Christ Alone I Place My Trust


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## Seeker

These are "ALL" valid and very good points. Amen there Allen when you wrote "In Christ Alone I Place My Trust" ... living by faith has it's benefits and blessings.. 

The more I learn and understand about this "Dying to SELF" I start understanding things I have never understood before. Open my eyes Lord, that is what I pray. Be careful for what you ask for.. you might just get it someday. 

I know I will draw some eye brows here but I am not referred to as "The Radical" by my family for no reason. 

Radical: (used of opinions and actions) far beyond the norm.. lol anyway..

Tattoo's, body art.. I have never liked them. I have seen less than three in my life that I would even call "ART". (My "opinion" only) I will begin to say if you have them it is because you desired / chose, to have the ink injected into your body for whatever reason. When people do this, it is a prime example of "SELF" wants and needs. You as a person, being selfish in your own way, wanted to pander to selfish desires and got the tattoo to your liking. No one forces anyone to get a tattoo. Right? 

As I explain it to my nieces and nephews, earthly blood brothers and sisters, we make choices in life, those choices are driven by "SELF". We are making "SELF" number one when we are told by God himself to come to him for everything. Right? We as humans are very selfish. The me.. my... mine... "syndrome" is and always has been here since Adam and Eve. Every decision we make as humans are made with "SELF" in mind. Right? 

I feel that if God wanted me "personally" to have tattoos, we would have been born with them.

Just my views on this crazy life we were so generously given and so madly try to control through "SELF". 

Suicide is a very, very, very "SELFISH" act and is committed to please "SELF". 

I never have thought of suicide this way / manner until I just read the postings above, including my own. We as humans struggle with "Dying to self" because our minds do not think or work this way. 
Every decision we make revolves around "SELF" if you think about it. We are human. We are "SELFISH" sinners. 

God wants us to come to him for everything. This is his purpose, even before Adam and Eve. It is so clear to me now. Dying to "SELF". The ultimate way to truly be set free. 

Hmm. 

Selfish: concerned chiefly or only with yourself and your advantage to the exclusion of others.

Selfishness: stinginess resulting from a concern for your own welfare and a disregard of others.

Hmm... got the Seeker thinking..


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## Fish&Chips

Yes Jesus has to be Lord of our lives. It is no longer our desires/ambitions but it is what He desires for us. Easier said than done. Will we fail? Yes, we will stumble and fall, but a righteous man will get back up.


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## GEAXNFISHN

Once saved always saved. I also believe only God can answer if a person is truly saved. 
My personal testimony is that I was saved at the age of six. From high school to around 30 I made a choice not to follow Christ. When the Holy Spirt began to deal with me I questioned if I was truly saved. The night I gave in to the Holy Spirit and went down to be saved I became convicted that salvation is not what I needed. I needed to repent of the life I was living. God made it clear to me I was truly saved and he had never left me. I can't express the joy and peace that comes from serving God.
I can tell you this, if you are saved and continue to live a life that doesn't honor God, hang on its gonna be a bumpy ride. He will come after you.


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## Fish Specialist

GEAXNFISHN said:


> Once saved always saved. I also believe only God can answer if a person is truly saved.
> My personal testimony is that I was saved at the age of six. From high school to around 30 I made a choice not to follow Christ. When the Holy Spirt began to deal with me I questioned if I was truly saved. The night I gave in to the Holy Spirit and went down to be saved I became convicted that salvation is not what I needed. I needed to repent of the life I was living. God made it clear to me I was truly saved and he had never left me. I can't express the joy and peace that comes from serving God.
> I can tell you this, if you are saved and continue to live a life that doesn't honor God, hang on its gonna be a bumpy ride. He will come after you.


^^^^ YES^^^^
My testimony is very similar. I always loved GOD! I always believed! But I wasn't always surrendered!!! I'll say that I've felt very condemned in the past about my faltering. I even thought I heard God say I was doomed. It was a trick of the enemy. He didn't want me to turn from sin. I've never been able to say NO to certain things before like I can now.... I've also felt the Holy Spirit telling me God wouldn't let me go that far... If I was destined for Hell as an adult, He would have taken me when I stopped breathing as a child. Since my repentance I've never before felt the presence of God like I do now. So, what say you???


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## Fish Specialist

This also comes to mind. If we are his, nothing can pluck us from his hand. I think it's really about your heart!!

For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 8:38, 39 NIV)


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## Fish&Chips

I had a similar experience where I gave my life to the Lord but then got pulled away and went back to doing the things of this world. I know for a fact I was saved before. But then I backslid and was living in blatant sin. I know that I was on my way to hell if I didn't repent and get right with God. I remember laying in bed at night and getting under the covers all the way over my head because I was ashamed of the way I was living and I thought I could hide from God. But we can't hide from God. I thank God that even in my backslidden state, He still reached out to me and saved me. Just like the prodigal son who once dwelled with his father and then left. But when he returned the father accepted him back with joy. Thank you Jesus!


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## Fish Specialist

Fish&Chips said:


> I had a similar experience where I gave my life to the Lord but then got pulled away and went back to doing the things of this world. I know for a fact I was saved before. But then I backslid and was living in blatant sin. I know that I was on my way to hell if I didn't repent and get right with God. I remember laying in bed at night and getting under the covers all the way over my head because I was ashamed of the way I was living and I thought I could hide from God. But we can't hide from God. I thank God that even in my backslidden state, He still reached out to me and saved me. Just like the prodigal son who once dwelled with his father and then left. But when he returned the father accepted him back with joy. Thank you Jesus!


Amen!!


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## atcfisherman

For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 8:38, 39 NIV)

This scripture has been quoted many times in support of "once saved always saved." However, from my understanding, this isn't talking about salvation. It is talking about how far God's love is.

The bible says that "God is love."
The bible says that "God loves us."
The bible says that "God loved the world so much that he gave Jesus."
The bible says that not all will be saved.

So, based on these and the above scripture from Romans 8:38-39, God still loves those who will not be saved and even those in hell??

I don't know the answer, but just trying to show my train of thought, which often is warped. LOL

As for the prior replies, those are very good. Especially the one about us being selfish. If I could have died to my selfish desires 35+ years ago, I could have avoided so many heart aches.

When I look back at my life, I would venture to say that 90% of my failures, struggles, heart aches, etc have been due to my bad choices, which was due to my self seeking desires.


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## chazbo

I think it's pretty simple......Jn 15 talks about branches that are grafted into the vine, yet because they don't bear fruit are cut off, cast out and burned....(don't sound good to me...).


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