# Why duck season was off



## Sgrem (Oct 5, 2005)

https://www.louisianasportsman.com/...a-big-reason-for-poor-louisiana-duck-seasons/

Very interesting article. 
This is akin to high fencing. Except in high fencing the land owner has a huge investment to fence and stock animals.

In the articles scenario most of that land is in CRP and WRP govt programs and the crops federally insured.

Which means the taxpayers nationwide are paying for the investment.....which keeps the birds fat and happy up north with no reason to migrate. And the landowners can charge whatever they want so paid hunters can limit before sunrise.

Those on the coast at the end of the flyway are paying for those conditions up north that made for a bad season.

Interesting. The duck hunting we have enjoyed for generations will go the way of high dollor high fence deer hunting.


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## TeamJefe (Mar 20, 2007)

I joined the group. I had always assumed that DU was using their money to improve native habitat, not create artificial habitat.


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## Hunter.S.Tomson (Aug 15, 2018)

Good article. Until the laws are changed on a federal level it will continue but it's not like we don't do the same here. Anybody harvesting that Japanese millet they planted lol. There's food plots here too but if we don't get weather up north why would ducks leave a legal corn buffet


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## TeamJefe (Mar 20, 2007)

Hunter.S.Tomson said:


> Good article. Until the laws are changed on a federal level it will continue but it's not like we don't do the same here. Anybody harvesting that Japanese millet they planted lol. There's food plots here too but if we don't get weather up north why would ducks leave a legal corn buffet


The duck use days for flooded corn are double that of flooded millet. A person planting their hole in Jap Millet is different than a WMA planting hundreds of acres of corn then flooding it.


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## Bad Bullet Bob (Nov 16, 2015)

DU and Delta are involved in this Short Stopping farms up north. Go to flyway Federation.


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## Duckchasr (Apr 27, 2011)

I think this article is more in line with the truth. https://www.chron.com/sports/outdoors/article/Disapointing-duck-season-coming-to-an-end-13556895.php

They were still hunting open water in Canada on the last day of their season. The lack of freeze up and snow cover means the birds don't have to move south. The birds that did migrate to Texas found every river flooded, every pothole filled and every marsh topped off. The loss of prime waterfowl habitat in Texas in the 40 years is appalling and I think directly corresponds with the lack of birds.jmho. I thought we were going to have a good season because of the brutal winter that was forecasted but it never came.


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## Hunter.S.Tomson (Aug 15, 2018)

I don't disagree that there's far more flooded corn etc. If we lived up there and had the opportunity to do it I bet we would. It's not against the law yet so why wouldn't you...we wouldn't care less bout them boys in sw louisiana or coastal texas. It was also 40 degrees in North Dakota mid January lol


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## Bad Bullet Bob (Nov 16, 2015)

I have friends in Calgary and their water frozen up solid. Same with contacts in Kansas. If you have a pond with ICE EATERS maybe open. Big corn farmers paid big bucks to flood and partial harvest by Corporations. Flyway is trying to get the laws changed.


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## capt2016 (Mar 4, 2016)

I agree with tha article for sure DU is a rich man's boys club, yes they do some small projects that do well but tha big money goes to tha rich douche flutes.
Convince tha little guys to give money to benefit tha higher ups, sorry not sorry ?!


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## duckmania (Jun 3, 2014)

I was in Louisiana in December and talked with some duck hunters down there. They were pretty adamant on their views about what they think is going on. I can understand and I think there is some truth to their claims, however, I think there are many other things going on also. 
I've been a member of DU for a long time, donate money. Its a good organization and the shift now going on towards water quality is a step in the right direction I believe. 

It was a little odd season, most of my hunting is on the mid coast, we had some great hunts and some pretty clunky hunts. Redheads were more scarce than ever, but the wigeon and gadwall were thick, can't complain.


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## Bullitt4439 (Sep 18, 2014)

Still plenty of Redheads and Bluebills on my part of the coast. Didn't see a pintail all season. 

Combination of factors hurt this season, no cold winter up north, plenty of open un pressured water, the sea grass beds in my local bay system are all but gone, and of course the rice production gone away. 

I will say this, if I had the opportunity to flood corn and blast ducks all season I would do it in a heartbeat.


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## duckmania (Jun 3, 2014)

Bullitt4439 said:


> Still plenty of Redheads and Bluebills on my part of the coast. Didn't see a pintail all season.
> 
> Combination of factors hurt this season, no cold winter up north, plenty of open un pressured water, the sea grass beds in my local bay system are all but gone, and of course the rice production gone away.
> 
> I will say this, if I had the opportunity to flood corn and blast ducks all season I would do it in a heartbeat.


Roger that.

I think the odd winter we had during the season kept a lot of birds north, and in Texas there was lots of water inland the pulled ducks away from the coast once the pressure got good enough.
Ducks constantly adapt, hunters will need to do the same.


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## Sgrem (Oct 5, 2005)

If i had property i would absolutely improve habitat and conditions to attract and keep the wildlife coming.

But doing so under CRP, WRP, and Federal crop insurance programs....ALL WHILE making HUGE profits to run hunters thru doesnt sit well with me. Take that property OUT of CRP, WRP, and intentionally leaving crops AND getting insurance money for losing crops due to intentionally flooding seems a little bit to much like fraud. Ducks or not.


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## duckmania (Jun 3, 2014)

sgrem said:


> If i had property i would absolutely improve habitat and conditions to attract and keep the wildlife coming.
> 
> But doing so under CRP, WRP, and Federal crop insurance programs....ALL WHILE making HUGE profits to run hunters thru doesnt sit well with me. Take that property OUT of CRP, WRP, and intentionally leaving crops AND getting insurance money for losing crops due to intentionally flooding seems a little bit to much like fraud. Ducks or not.


If that is what is happening then it is wrong. There is always someone trying to game the system. But I'm not convinced it is as widespread as being claimed.


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## sea sick (Feb 9, 2006)

sgrem said:


> If i had property i would absolutely improve habitat and conditions to attract and keep the wildlife coming.
> 
> But doing so under CRP, WRP, and Federal crop insurance programs....ALL WHILE making HUGE profits to run hunters thru doesnt sit well with me. Take that property OUT of CRP, WRP, and intentionally leaving crops AND getting insurance money for losing crops due to intentionally flooding seems a little bit to much like fraud. Ducks or not.


The term... racket... comes to mind.


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## Hunter.S.Tomson (Aug 15, 2018)

All about the dollar brother. Def agree laws need to go back to pre 1998


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## Shep (Mar 22, 2006)

The duck hunting has been going south for years and Flyway Federation is finally doing something about it. I put a post a while back on here placing their link on it. We need to support this effort in order to get things changed. There have been some people saying that nothing will change to which my responce is..... i recall when we didn't stand a chance to change the red snapper laws and look at where we are with that.... it all has to start somewhere and Flyway Federation is where the change for duck hunting the ethical way begins!!!


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## Duckchasr (Apr 27, 2011)

Shep said:


> The duck hunting has been going south for years and Flyway Federation is finally doing something about it. I put a post a while back on here placing their link on it. We need to support this effort in order to get things changed. There have been some people saying that nothing will change to which my responce is..... i recall when we didn't stand a chance to change the red snapper laws and look at where we are with that.... it all has to start somewhere and Flyway Federation is where the change for duck hunting the ethical way begins!!!


I feel like it is divisive. Calling DU a bad organization is not productive. If it wasn't for them the wild areas that support our wildfowl population would be plowed under or covered with concrete. When your shooting limits of Bluewing teal at the end of the season it's a sign that winter didn't come. Just some food for thought.

Check out these resources to see the loss of wetlands here in Texas.

https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2015-04/documents/gulf-of-mexico-review.pdf

https://www.ducks.org/texas/texas-conservation-projects

http://www.katyprairie.org/learn-about-kpc-1/


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## AvianQuest (Feb 7, 2006)

*Duck biologists say agricultural practices up north not hurting Louisiana's winter population*

https://www.nola.com/outdoors/index.ssf/2014/01/duck_biologists_say_agricultur.html

Anyone paying attention could see that the duck numbers would be down this last season because of habitat conditions on the breeding grounds. Then the south got hit with way, way too much rainfall which dispersed the birds away from the traditional areas we are used to hunting. Some folks did well, most didn't.


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## SeaOx 230C (Aug 12, 2005)

Just because DU did good and was good in the past does not mean they are the same today. We talked in the 80's and 90's about how DU was going to end up being bad for duck hunters here. It was obvious to those that knew duck behavior. They don't migrate all those mile for fun. For the most part they will only travel as far as needed to find open water to roost in and food to eat.


Crop production was declining here and growing up North. DU was rapidly doing various Habit Projects up North , but not so much down here. People above us realized they could dike up and flood their timber and create their own habitat complete acorns etc... as a food source......


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## DUKFVR2 (Sep 12, 2018)

I gave up on DU many years ago.


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## hb (Jul 30, 2011)

But the stickers look cool on your truck!


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## gajaw (Sep 19, 2011)

Duck season was off because there was too much rain everywhere. Also, the man who said you were shooting blue wings in January means there was not sufficient cold weather. Another thing I noticed is that most man made "Ponds"" Wetlands" dont have any food after 2-5 weeks into the regular season. Part of this is the new rice combines being so efficient. However, most of the issue is people flood water and not water with food that can be manage throughout the season. If you do manage food throughout the season you had a **** good season. As far as the bays - well when it rains 30" throughout Texas, LA and Ark you aint going to see as many ducks. Plus all the fresh water flows into the bay season also washes out food. 

I dont even hunt ducks but it sounds to me like those up North know how to manage food and those down here dont. If you want ducks any future season you need to figure out how to manage food. There is a way to do it and it is legal but it is not cheap and must be continued throughout the season. I am sure some guides on here know the trick. Also, ever wonder why 1 "pond" out of 6 ponds produced. Simple it still had some food in Mid December to late January. 

My advise is figure it out. Some guides have!!!


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## Woodlands Water Turkey (Aug 5, 2016)

People will always have an excuse/conspiracy on why they didnâ€™t shoot ducks, catch fish, etc.

Could it be that they are wild animals and change their behaviors/migration patters based on environmental conditions from year to year?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Duckchasr (Apr 27, 2011)

https://www.facebook.com/groups/pub...if_id=1549219770597707&notif_t=group_activity


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## Jess2015 (Feb 1, 2019)

Lots and lots of water, they had everywhere to go and sit. :headknock


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## TeamJefe (Mar 20, 2007)

I had the DU biologist out to our property yesterday morning for a site visit. Of course after the season ends we have more birds than ever. We saw over 1000 birds on two of our units. He told me that he did a 250 mile loop through Colorado and Wharton counties the day before and there was water everywhere. His opinion on the season was that the birds had so many options that if they got shot at they could easily move to water that had no hunting pressure.


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## DoveBucket (Feb 7, 2019)

Jess2015 said:


> Lots and lots of water, they had everywhere to go and sit. :headknock


I agree!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## Drundel (Feb 6, 2006)




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## Kyle 1974 (May 10, 2006)

You think maybe it had to do with 30-50â€ of rain a couple months before duck season starting and every single pond and lake on private property being full to the gills? 

We had thousands of ducks on the deer lease in hebbronville. Teal, widgeon, gadwall, canvasbacks. All there in the wild horse desert.


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## Csafisher (Nov 16, 2010)

Kyle 1974 said:


> You think maybe it had to do with 30-50â€ of rain a couple months before duck season starting and every single pond and lake on private property being full to the gills?
> 
> We had thousands of ducks on the deer lease in hebbronville. Teal, widgeon, gadwall, canvasbacks. All there in the wild horse desert.


Wait ducks like water? Who wouldâ€™ve thunk it. Sounds more reasonable that people are high fencing all the mallards up north.........

Wet years are not good for the coast. Pretty obvious why. I experienced less than normal amounts but there tons of ducks on the coast still. Lots of ducks in Mexico right now too.


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## Spec-Rig.006 (Nov 2, 2007)

Duckchasr said:


> I feel like it is divisive. Calling DU a bad organization is not productive. If it wasn't for them the wild areas that support our wildfowl population would be plowed under or covered with concrete. When your shooting limits of Bluewing teal at the end of the season it's a sign that winter didn't come. Just some food for thought.
> 
> Check out these resources to see the loss of wetlands here in Texas.
> 
> ...


*AGREED.* False narratives do much more harm than good. Let's not get our "news" from facebook and the other associated ilk.

There is *no credible science* to supports the theory that "poor duck hunting success" (which is purely subjective) in southern states is due to waterfowl being artificially held up in northern states by flooded agricultural crops managed for waterfowl hunting/hot cropping, literally none. Ducks feed on waste grain in dry fields to a much larger extent.

The percentage of planted acreage that's then flooded is very low, effectively negligible, and the theory that a guy throwing an ice eater into a frozen pond that then turns it into a migration preventing hotspot is even more absurd.


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## gajaw (Sep 19, 2011)

Thanks GOD some common sense in this thread!! 

That DU video was perfect and I wish duck hunters all over would watch it.

However, you want duck success stop managing "water" and manage "food". 

You dont have to wait for "Cold Winters" if you just manage food. That is the 
single most important aspect no matter where you live in the country. 

I do believe though there are some hidden issues with Texas and probably LA as there still should be more ducks on the bays. Lots less than there use to be and I think efficient rice combines are hurting the Pintail Population.

I have learned people are going to believe whatever they want and there is always someone on the internet that will agree with them - even though it is completely 100% false.


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## Camper (Jun 9, 2012)

*Camper*

What is being done now has been affecting the migration since early 2000's but we were asleep at the wheel. This was planned and has been very successful. The number of mallards coming to the south has been reduced by these legal baiting methods. Big money pushed this to get the laws loosened up to allow this loophole. It's very big business now and if it continues the great hunting we used to have will be history. I've seen the pictures put up by guide services and there is a high percentage of spooners, scaup and teal both in Louisiana and Texas nothing like the hunting and quality birds of the past. Canada in in the process of restore the treaty of 98 sometime this spring. Bottom line to eliminate all the BS I would like to see it colder than a witches tit and dry as a powderhouse all the way to central Texas then we would find out exactly how much that is happening north of us is changing the migration.


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## Duckchasr (Apr 27, 2011)

Camper said:


> What is being done now has been affecting the migration since early 2000's but we were asleep at the wheel. This was planned and has been very successful. The number of mallards coming to the south has been reduced by these legal baiting methods. Big money pushed this to get the laws loosened up to allow this loophole. It's very big business now and if it continues the great hunting we used to have will be history. I've seen the pictures put up by guide services and there is a high percentage of spooners, scaup and teal both in Louisiana and Texas nothing like the hunting and quality birds of the past. Canada in in the process of restore the treaty of 98 sometime this spring. Bottom line to eliminate all the BS I would like to see it colder than a witches tit and dry as a powderhouse all the way to central Texas then we would find out exactly how much that is happening north of us is changing the migration.


I want to see abundant waterfowl habitat from Canada to Mexico. That's the goal of DU so I support DU. Long Live the Wild Fowl.


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## trout112 (Feb 17, 2019)

When I think about duck and goose hunting in TX I think of the famous clip with the Indian standing there as a tear rolls down his cheek. A sad state of affairs lately.


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## briggss1 (May 27, 2006)

Shep said:


> The duck hunting has been going south for years and Flyway Federation is finally doing something about it. I put a post a while back on here placing their link on it. We need to support this effort in order to get things changed. There have been some people saying that nothing will change to which my responce is..... i recall when we didn't stand a chance to change the red snapper laws and look at where we are with that.... it all has to start somewhere and Flyway Federation is where the change for duck hunting the ethical way begins!!!


Right on. I was smack in the middle of the Red Snapper fight (its not over btw) and can tell you that recreational sport hunting and fishing for the average everyday person is under assult. I thought I would return to my roots here (waterfowl and dove hunting) and its **** near impossible to get on any good birds unless you pay private outfitters or are relentless in scouting the OVERHUNTED public lands. I asked the FGW about the crowds on the refuges and he just smirked and told me to thank Duck Dynasty...that every hipster weekend warrior is coming out of Houston and inundating our "public marshes." I pointed out to him that when I grew up it was all truly public, but Uncle Sam pretty much owns 75% of the entire coastal marsh with most of it restricted to tiny little hunt zones crammed full of hunters.

So as far as the duck "high fencers" point of view, I will tell you 100% that big money is tied to your politicians AND the established 501c non profits...and that they all act in concert to protect their interests, NOT YOURs. That has been my experience dealing with the snapper wars, and looks like privatization/commercialization has moved to waterfowl.

Not too long ago, I used to be able to kill a mess of dove. Now, you can get 1 good opening day and call it quits. That has to be due to the comments on rice farming efficiency and habitat loss. Or they are all moved into our cities â€¦ hipster doves.

I even tried to pay the big outfitters around Eagle Lake, El Campo, and Anahuac, but call after call rejections made me realize they WILL NOT accommodate single hunters - their schtick is high paying and high tipping corporate groups. SOL.


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## Spec-Rig.006 (Nov 2, 2007)

Camper said:


> What is being done now has been affecting the migration since early 2000's but we were asleep at the wheel. This was planned and has been very successful. The number of mallards coming to the south has been reduced by these legal baiting methods. Big money pushed this to get the laws loosened up to allow this loophole. It's very big business now and if it continues the great hunting we used to have will be history. I've seen the pictures put up by guide services and there is a high percentage of spooners, scaup and teal both in Louisiana and Texas nothing like the hunting and quality birds of the past. Canada in in the process of restore the treaty of 98 sometime this spring. Bottom line to eliminate all the BS I would like to see it colder than a witches tit and dry as a powderhouse all the way to central Texas then we would find out exactly how much that is happening north of us is changing the migration.


Again. False narratives and minuscule effects.

Are you all seriously saying that by some guy farming 2,000 acres state to state, county to county, here and there for ducks, that he's competing with nearly 250,000 acres of rice agriculture and nearly 800,000 acres of peanut agriculture leaving the state?

Because if you are, you're "asleep at the wheel" ...

This is akin to the global warming argument you all love to hate, except you're all on the wrong side of the fence.


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## [email protected] (May 24, 2004)

I just read a piece in the Houston Comical...Fewer ducks coming to Texas because of too many cows farting. Ducks are very easily put off by offensive noises and picky about air quality. Ha!


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## Hunter.S.Tomson (Aug 15, 2018)

[email protected] said:


> I just read a piece in the Houston Comical...Fewer ducks coming to Texas because of too many cows farting. Ducks are very easily put off by offensive noises and picky about air quality. Ha!


My bud, bless his heart, can't blow a call to save his life, but by God it's not for the lack of trying. I'm going to tell him that's what he sounds like next time...a farting cow...he's the real reason duck season was off


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## buckweet (Aug 8, 2011)

Hunter.S.Tomson said:


> My bud, bless his heart, can't blow a call to save his life, but by God it's not for the lack of trying. I'm going to tell him that's what he sounds like next time...a farting cow...he's the real reason duck season was off


Finally some logic, thanks!


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## Duckchasr (Apr 27, 2011)

briggss1 said:


> Right on. I was smack in the middle of the Red Snapper fight (its not over btw) and can tell you that recreational sport hunting and fishing for the average everyday person is under assult. I thought I would return to my roots here (waterfowl and dove hunting) and its **** near impossible to get on any good birds unless you pay private outfitters or are relentless in scouting the OVERHUNTED public lands. I asked the FGW about the crowds on the refuges and he just smirked and told me to thank Duck Dynasty...that every hipster weekend warrior is coming out of Houston and inundating our "public marshes." I pointed out to him that when I grew up it was all truly public, but Uncle Sam pretty much owns 75% of the entire coastal marsh with most of it restricted to tiny little hunt zones crammed full of hunters.
> 
> So as far as the duck "high fencers" point of view, I will tell you 100% that big money is tied to your politicians AND the established 501c non profits...and that they all act in concert to protect their interests, NOT YOURs. That has been my experience dealing with the snapper wars, and looks like privatization/commercialization has moved to waterfowl.
> 
> ...


It's loss of habitat! My dad used to duck and goose hunt just south of you off of CR 48 north of HWY 6. They talk of clouds of pintails that liked ragspreads. In fact they used to ride on the hood of a car down 518 where it dead ended into a gravel road and shoot rabbits and mottled ducks. I grew up shooting mallards in Arcola. In South Houston and Iowa Colony we had dove hunts that rivaled Mexico style hunts.The farmers stopped farming and the subdivisions crept in. We hunted at the intersection of Westheimer and Mason rd. for one season and used the flocks of mottlers that landed in our 3 decoys to lure in the flocks of mallards that followed. The farmers quit farming and the subdivisions crept in. After the season we would drive the Katy Prairie looking at concentrations of waterfowl as birdwatchers. The farmers stopped farming and the subdivisions crept in. Texas has lost an alarming rate of waterfowl habitat in the last 40 years. I feel as trout112 does......"When I think about duck and goose hunting in TX I think of the famous clip with the Indian standing there as a tear rolls down his cheek. A sad state of affairs lately."


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## Spec-Rig.006 (Nov 2, 2007)

Duckchasr said:


> It's loss of habitat!


Agreed.

I just read a piece in the WSJ about shifting agricultural practices. The corn belt and soy bean production has been shifting north for over 20 years, has expanded into Canada, and growing seasons have extended by 4 weeks in parts of Alberta and Saskatchewan due to an increase of average growing season temperatures (by 3 degrees) and chasing rainfall patterns. Farms that were traditionally growing canola are growing corn for feed grain - add that to a the loss of rice on the Texas coast and peanuts in north central Texas, and migration patterns will shift.


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## gajaw (Sep 19, 2011)

There is no doubt habitat in SE Texas has declined. My point is it is up to hunters and guides to demand from farmers some management for ducks if your going to pay the kind of prices around Houston. I dont hunt there anymore because the price for what you get is just plain stupid. However, you demand and follow through on a good plan for food you can see results. That is something all guides and lease hunters should demand of their farmers. Many will say no but **** they are making a killing on waterfowl around Houston and should be more flexible. Honestly If I gave that kind of production in my business for the price people are paying I would be sued out of business. 

There are far less Pintails because there is far less rice and other waste grain left than there was in the 70s and 80s. 

I would say I am not ignorant on hunting pressure. Certainly pressure around houston is tremendous. This hurts. Hell it was like a war zone around San Antonio Sept 1st dove season. Now that last about one day!! Doves Adjust Ducks Adjust.


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## Swampstomper (Apr 19, 2010)

I think the abudance of water statewide was the main factor in the poor season many had. I also think lack of sustained cold weather to the north was second to that. Habitat loss is big issue too but is out of the average waterfowl hunters control.

I do believe that flooding unharvested crops should be outlawed. To me it,s just 
legalized baiting. I darn sure don,t want any of my tax dollars or DU money going to help fund it, whether it,s up north or in my backyard. It,s not about whether it,s affecting our hunting or Louisianas or anyone elses, I think it,s just wrong. There,s plenty of folks in the waterfowl managment and hunting industries that believe the same. The battle is coming, count on it.


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## daddyeaux (Nov 18, 2007)

gajaw, you don't demand anything from the farmers we lease land from for duck or goose hunting. They really don't care about the ducks or geese. They lease the land just to pay the taxes. They are not getting rich leasing to us. They all have their fields on a 1 or 2 year rotation. The years they are not planting a field it is used to graze cattle on. If you ask a farmer to plant or do something special to a field for waterfowl, the first thing he is going to say is "Are you paying for this".


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