# New rifle, looking to try a new round



## Overboard (Feb 20, 2008)

I have various rifles, (243, 300, 308, 7mm, etc.) but have taken a strong liking to the 308. I have been searching for a new 308 for a little over a year, and one that you don't typically see people using.

I settled on a new Sako 85S .308, Bavarian Carbine; the rifle was made in Finland, has a 20" barrel with a walnut stock all the way through. Gorgeous rifle, and will post pictures once I scope it out.

I have been using the Hornady SST shells (various grain sizes) the past few years, and while they knock a deer down, they typically blow right through with the deer running 50-100 yards.

After reading Brett's recent reply about staying away from Ballistic tips from the Holden pasture thread, I would like to try a new round, 150 grain, and one with some serious knock down.

Any thoughts? I have never used Core Lock, Boat Tail, etc. Generally Hornady and special made shells. 

Also looking to put a scope on this rifle, and one that isn't an everyday one you see in the field. Any recommendations?

I want this rifle to be special so I can pass it down to my son, along with all my others. Heck, I think he feels they are all his now anyhow. He has been quite my little dove and deer hunter the past few years, and has taken a love to it.

Brett Holden, if you read this thread, what shell do you use in your 300? My son and I follow your thread daily, and your 200+ class deer very impressive. Hell, the whole thread is. I think my son goes into labor just looking at the pictures and videos you post.


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## Sgrem (Oct 5, 2005)

Interbond

Zeiss HD5 3-15x40
Although the RZ1000 reticle is supposedly made for .308.....its quite busy. The RZ800 is my choice.


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## JFritz (Feb 27, 2015)

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/2...-shock-x-bullet-boat-tail-lead-free-box-of-20


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Barnes 165 grain TSX. Just be careful about "coppering up the barrel" And yes never any Ballistic tips. They do as advertised "blow up" and thats not good. Once shot a coyote straight in the chest with 120 gr Nosler hunting round ballistic tip out of my 7mm-08. Never exited and couldnt hardly find the entry. Coyote looked like it had a heart attack. No evidence of being shot. No blood at all.


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## Csafisher (Nov 16, 2010)

180 gr federal fusion or Nosler accubonds

If you get Barnes go with the tipped triple shock. They will expand a little better, but being all copper is still gonna have a high weight retention and penetration.

Check out leupold vx6 models.


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## sea sick (Feb 9, 2006)

Accubond or interbond...


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

Sierra Gameking is a great choice for 308. 165 grain bullets are proven accurate in 308.


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## 78thomas78 (Jun 19, 2016)

Nosler Partitions for serious knock down power. Do they fly the best no but at 100 to 200 yards they are very lethal and will hold a decent pattern. Most don't but I have had very good luck with the VLD's in 6.5 all the way up to 300 win mag. I have loaded a 284 with VLD's that as stated on the shooting board dropped a Holden deer in its tracks.


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## txsmith1 (Feb 13, 2012)

Wasn't a fan of sst's on deer. +1 for federal's gameking BTSP if you're looking for a non-ballistic tip. Congrats on the rifle.


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## 223AI (May 7, 2012)

Tough to whoop a 155 scenar for both BC and carnage.


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## Cynoscion (Jun 4, 2009)

CHARLIE said:


> Barnes 165 grain TSX. Just be careful about "coppering up the barrel" And yes never any Ballistic tips. They do as advertised "blow up" and thats not good. Once shot a coyote straight in the chest with 120 gr Nosler hunting round ballistic tip out of my 7mm-08. Never exited and couldnt hardly find the entry. Coyote looked like it had a heart attack. No evidence of being shot. No blood at all.


I second the Barnes TSX or TTSX. I keep 180gr Barnes TTSX on hand at the camp for our guests to use just in case they show up with their own rifles chambered in .308. Deer and nilgai hate them.

Look at the Leupold vxr line of scopes. 30mm tubes and lots of high end options at a midrange price.


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## Overboard (Feb 20, 2008)

*Thanks guys*

I appreciate the replies and input; lots of options to narrow down now, and I will definitely be moving away from the SST's.

Last kill was a mature doe a few weeks back, 130+ yards, perfect shot, and she looked at me, ran 100+ yards. It blew right through her.

I will post pics of my new rifle after I put some optics on her.


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## Capt. Marcus Canales (Aug 25, 2005)

165gr Accubond for my sps tactical....20 inch bull barrel. Loves those rounds, animals hate them.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## capt.dru (Oct 24, 2009)

Read this first. It might help you make your decision easier. 
http://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/.308+Winchester+7.62+NATO.html

Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk


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## ClayShooter (Aug 29, 2009)

308 165 Grain Nosler Trophy Grade Accubond
300 Win 180 Grain Nosler Trophy Grade Accubond
My Rifles love them. Can't go wrong with the Nosler Partition either. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## kweber (Sep 20, 2005)

nice!
would love to have one in 6.5 swede, 4x scope, left-hand...
I'd even pony up for a nice Con Can axis lease...


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## 2Ws (Jun 28, 2016)

I use the 18.99 per box Rem Core Locs!!!! Just how dead do you want your stuff, but if the Dali-Lama of deer said use the 49.99 stuff they would have a run on it...BTW it's been posted here at least twice on staying away from the ballistic tips


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## DR_Smith (Jul 20, 2016)

I agree with all of the negative talk on ballistic tips, but here is the flip side (my opinion). I have shot numerous deer with the ballistic tip and not had 1 move. Shot placement is key to any shot. No exit and no blood SUCKS, but when you blow up the heart and lungs or almost take the head off a doe, you don't need it.
I shoot ballistic tips out of my 22-250 and shoot high neck shots (these are smaller deer and not mounting). My 30-06 and .270wsm I shoot accubonds. These are either high neck or if I have to behind one shoulder and into opposite (like with a bow). A bullet like a core lock you can shoot through 3-4 animals of lined up right! Me personally, I don't like that.

Biggest question is where do you hunt, what size game (south Tx white tail vs me in Victoria county with a big deer being 150lbs) then decide on bullet.
Never had a hog walk from an ear hole shot with a 22-250 ballistic tip.. Just my $.02


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## DR_Smith (Jul 20, 2016)

My dad has a GAP .308 and has a savage police .308 for my mom. He shoots (I think) 168hr Hornady tap out of his and 150hr Hornady tap out of hers. Both are 1 hole 5 shot groups at 100 yards and completely destroy the internals of deer! I had a 6" exit hole on exit wound of a javelina with the 150gr. They are designed not to exit! South Tx big deer I would prefer accubond but hey, if the entrance is 4-6" then why need an exit


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## 2Ws (Jun 28, 2016)

If designed not to exit it's NOT for me!!!


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## DR_Smith (Jul 20, 2016)

2Ws said:


> If designed not to exit it's NOT for me!!!


Lol I agree 100%! Same as a round designed to blow straight through steel isn't good for white tail. A .30" hole straight through heart and even lungs still lets a deer run 100's of yards... 
But all I was saying is depending on the size game you are shooting and your shot placement, they can be super lethal! Hornady tap is designed for police snipers, no collateral damage, ballistic tip is same principle. When shooting head shots or just below jaw bone on neck those rounds drop whatever you shoot in there tracks. 130-150lb whitetail shot through shoulder don't budge either. Seen this on numerous deer.


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## AvianQuest (Feb 7, 2006)

DR_Smith said:


> Biggest question is where do you hunt, what size game (south Tx white tail vs me in Victoria county with a big deer being 150lbs) then decide on bullet.


^^^^
This

Plus distance is a major factor. Where I hunt shots are less than 100 yards with 130 or so being the max.

You need a bullet that will expand and transfer nearly all its energy inside the deer's body but will still leave an exit hole for more external bleed out.

A lot of folks here in East Texas are using Managed Recoil rounds in .308 or .30-06 for this reason. The Managed Recoil rounds use a special 125 gr. pointed soft point bullet with 50% less recoil but still 35% more energy than a .30-30. Point is, they do a lot more damage to a deer than say a 7mm Mag. using a bullet that doesn't open up fast and wastes its energy on the first tree it hits on the other side of the deer.

But if heavy bodied deer and long distances are the norm, then I'd go with 150 gr. pointed soft points.


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## QuarterRoy (Apr 14, 2008)

*yep*



RB II said:


> Sierra Gameking is a great choice for 308. 165 grain bullets are proven accurate in 308.


X2


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## Sgrem (Oct 5, 2005)

DR_Smith said:


> Lol I agree 100%! Same as a round designed to blow straight through steel isn't good for white tail. A .30" hole straight through heart and even lungs still lets a deer run 100's of yards...
> But all I was saying is depending on the size game you are shooting and your shot placement, they can be super lethal! Hornady tap is designed for police snipers, no collateral damage, ballistic tip is same principle. When shooting head shots or just below jaw bone on neck those rounds drop whatever you shoot in there tracks. 130-150lb whitetail shot through shoulder don't budge either. Seen this on numerous deer.


I have seen way too many deer with patch of hair off the neck or worse yet their bottom jaw shot off. Head shots are a horrible stunt with too little margin for error. Make it easy and put lots of brown hair in your site picture. You said it yourself....dead Is dead....make a shot that allows for some variables to still put the animal down....

Variables aiming only for head shots result in maimed animals. Then the rest of us have to put them down properly when we see injured deer suffering.


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## 2Ws (Jun 28, 2016)

YEP


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## DR_Smith (Jul 20, 2016)

and I have seen animals with a hole straight through there mid section as well. I hunt for meat not horns. a mounted deer would be a huge bonus but last time I checked there wasn't any meat that I eat on the high neck just below the jaw. that's my preferred shot placement. don't take a shot you know you cant make. is this a 300 yard shot with 10mph crosswind? not at all. 
fixed broadhead vs mechanical, forward opening vs rear opening.... its a never ending debate of personal opinions and what each individual likes and works best for them. ballistic tips are like mechanicals, used properly and for the right game and nothing wrong with them. that's all im trying to say.


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## S-3 ranch (May 26, 2004)

DR_Smith said:


> I agree with all of the negative talk on ballistic tips, but here is the flip side (my opinion). I have shot numerous deer with the ballistic tip and not had 1 move. Shot placement is key to any shot. No exit and no blood SUCKS, but when you blow up the heart and lungs or almost take the head off a doe, you don't need it.
> I shoot ballistic tips out of my 22-250 and shoot high neck shots (these are smaller deer and not mounting). My 30-06 and .270wsm I shoot accubonds. These are either high neck or if I have to behind one shoulder and into opposite (like with a bow). A bullet like a core lock you can shoot through 3-4 animals of lined up right! Me personally, I don't like that.
> 
> Biggest question is where do you hunt, what size game (south Tx white tail vs me in Victoria county with a big deer being 150lbs) then decide on bullet.
> Never had a hog walk from an ear hole shot with a 22-250 ballistic tip.. Just my $.02


I will agree with everything EXCEPT the 22-250 stuff or any 22 caliber on 
large game , my .308 sst kills deer no problem it kinda hard to run off with no lungs and a broken shoulder


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## FFLack (May 10, 2014)

All I shoot out of my 308 now is the 178 grain Hornady ELD-X bullet out of a 1-10 twist barrel. Shoots lights out on paper and have had four deer hit the dirt this year. Bullet is phenomenal and all I shoot now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## sea sick (Feb 9, 2006)

I've shot everything with ballistic tips. Love them. Everything I've shot with them drops right there or runs abut 10 yards and balls up. 
All behind the shoulder shots,no head or neck.
308 and 300wsm.
Now if im going for something like elk or nilgai, I'd switch to the noslers or accubond. 
Maybe im just lucky with the ammo, but it's treated me right so far.


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## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

> I use the 18.99 per box Rem Core Locs!!!! J


And in the end it all comes to this.

You can spend a lot of money on ammunition or a little and the little that the Remington Core Lokt ammunition gives you on price is so much worth it in the field.

Never lost an animal shooting 130 grain Core lokt bullets in my .270.

I'm not a .308 fan for hunting so I can't expound on any particular load. I can only say that in 53 years of killing deer and other stuff the old Remington Core Lokt bullets have not let me down.

TH


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## Friendswoodmatt (Feb 22, 2005)

Not a fan .308 for hunting? Wow-- I always thought it was a great round-- but hey thats me


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## 9121SS (Jun 28, 2009)

I've shot a 308 for years. Mine likes the Winchester Silver Tip in 150 gr. ( cheap )
Killed many deer and pigs out to 200 yards. I've only had one deer run after the shot. That one ran about 50 yards. Bad shot, that was on me.


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## bigfishtx (Jul 17, 2007)

capt.dru said:


> Read this first. It might help you make your decision easier.
> http://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/.308+Winchester+7.62+NATO.html
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk


Wish he would read this, it has lots of good info and corrects a lot of bad info given out by some that don't know what hydrostatic shock even means.


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## capt.dru (Oct 24, 2009)

bigfishtx said:


> Wish he would read this, it has lots of good info and corrects a lot of bad info given out by some that don't know what hydrostatic shock even means.


That is a really good website. Lots of really good information. I used it alot before I decided what bullet to use for my 25-06. It has just about every caliber and most bullets on there. I wish they would add the newer bullets that have come out. The one bullet that seemed to get the most praise was the partition.

Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk


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## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

AvianQuest said:


> You need a bullet that will expand and transfer nearly all its energy inside the deer's body but will still leave an exit hole for more external bleed out.


The above sums it up nicely.


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## SSST (Jun 9, 2011)

Trouthunter said:


> And in the end it all comes to this.
> 
> You can spend a lot of money on ammunition or a little and the little that the Remington Core Lokt ammunition gives you on price is so much worth it in the field.
> 
> ...


My Dad, who is 65, has never used another bullet besides a Core Lokt. 100 grain in .243, 130 gr in .270, and 150 in a 7mag. I'm sure as long as he's hunting, he never will. I prefer Hornady Interlocks, but can't say anything negative about a Core Lokt, except i can group a tighter pattern with the Hornady. My brother shot a nice buck one time in the shoulder with a ballistic tip, fell down, got up and ran off, all we found was hair. That was with a 7mag, last time he used them.


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## bigfishtx (Jul 17, 2007)

capt.dru said:


> That is a really good website. Lots of really good information. I used it alot before I decided what bullet to use for my 25-06. It has just about every caliber and most bullets on there. I wish they would add the newer bullets that have come out. The one bullet that seemed to get the most praise was the partition.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk


And an equal amount of praise for the Ballistic tip at 308 velocities. 
Fyi nosler Ballistic Tips and Hornady SSTs are different bullets.


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## sea sick (Feb 9, 2006)

Trouthunter said:


> And in the end it all comes to this.
> 
> You can spend a lot of money on ammunition or a little and the little that the Remington Core Lokt ammunition gives you on price is so much worth it in the field.
> 
> ...


Could you explain the 308 reasoning...you shoot a 25-06.....have you ever looked at the ballistics and compared...if you did you wouldn't be a fan of what you're shooting either. Pretty close on the chart. But like mentioned before....thats just me..as long as your shooting and killin, then thats all the matters.


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## 6.5 shooter dude (Jan 8, 2008)

sea sick said:


> Could you explain the 308 reasoning...you shoot a 25-06.....have you ever looked at the ballistics and compared...if you did you wouldn't be a fan of what you're shooting either. Pretty close on the chart. But like mentioned before....thats just me..as long as your shooting and killin, then thats all the matters.


At the end of the day it boils down to the round you have confidence in. I use to love the 308 and 300 wm, not anymore. My 6.5x284 is my go to gun out to1000yards. I would shoot anything in North America with it.


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## sea sick (Feb 9, 2006)

I know what your saying... i agree with that..just the ballistics are close.. 
I'd say a 308 has taken more game than a 25-06 round has. Just curious what he doesn't like about it....I know he's a seasoned hunter... that's all


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## Flapp'n Shad (Sep 29, 2015)

I shoot 6.5 Creedmoore,but shot .308 168 Gr BTHP MATCH KINGS for years and never had anything take one step.I only shoot the 6.5 now just because i wanted something different.My favorite for Texas deer is my 22-243.


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## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

> Could you explain the 308 reasoning...you shoot a 25-06.....have you ever looked at the ballistics and compared...if you did you wouldn't be a fan of what you're shooting either. Pretty close on the chart. But like mentioned before....thats just me..as long as your shooting and killin, then thats all the matters.


I don't like to shoot a .30 caliber bullet at deer so that's my reasoning for stating that I'm not a fan of the .308 for deer hunting. I could have said .300 Win Mag or .30-06 but the discussion was about the .308.

I used to shoot a .308 when we shot metallic silhouette targets and loved the cartridge for that.

And I don't hunt with a .25-06. Haven't for too many years to remember when I stopped lol.

TH


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## kweber (Sep 20, 2005)

I just want that gun in lefty...
6.5 x 55 Swede


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## Anderson Guide Service (Oct 21, 2016)

For whitetail in my opinion you don't want a "tough" bullet. I don't own a 308 but I do know that power points in a 270 are really good for whitetail. We went on a doe hunt a couple years back and my buddy had a 300 mag. We both shot at the same time. My deer made it about 30 yards and had a blood trail about 2' wide (she was kinda dragging/sliding away). My buddy had the 300 mag and his deer made it about 70 yards (behind the shoulder). His bullet never got to expand properly and just zipped through. Either way they were dead but the was a definite difference. Even though the 300 mag on paper was more "powerful" it under performed the 270 because the bullet wasn't matched with the game hunted. By the way I have shot a lot of pigs and deer with ballistic tips and have never had one explode. I am sure it is possible if it is not driven at the right speeds. A lot of bullets will do the same.


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## Anderson Guide Service (Oct 21, 2016)

I have had really good luck with sierra pro hunters also (280cal 120g bullet). I would think they would work well in the 308 also


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## Overboard (Feb 20, 2008)

*Thanks everyone*

Hey guys, I appreciate all of the advice and information you all posted. The website link that was posted is great as well, and I may try a few different rounds before deciding.

I will hop back in and let everyone know we finalize on.

We hope you all have a safe and happy new year. Please be safe it out on the roads.


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## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

This discussion could go forever, but is so important. The actual bullet/projectile performance is key. Almost any centerfire rifle cartridge has enough energy to kill deer at normal ranges, depending on shot placement. Bullet construction determines how much and where within the body that the deer absorbs energy. I prefer a pass through for blood trail reasons, but the bullet needs to have mushroomed and transferred most of its energy to the deer. With the right bullet, DRT is common.


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## texasbagman (Oct 1, 2007)

If you want an exit wound then you want a bullet that doesn't transfer all or most of its energy to the target. You want a bullet that is good at energy transfer you may not get an exit wound.

It is pretty simple physics.

Honestly, the premium bullet craze is a good marketing scam to remove money from your wallet. There isn't a species of animal that hasn't been taken cleanly and successfully with good old copper jacketed lead core bullets.


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## Sgrem (Oct 5, 2005)

Energy and energy transfer etc doesn't kill animals....tissue damage kills animals....i will take two exit wounds any day.


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## Overboard (Feb 20, 2008)

*scope chosen*

The scope we are settling on is the Leupold Vx6 2 - 12 x 42.

Hoping to have it mounted today; will post a pic once complete.


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## capt.dru (Oct 24, 2009)

Read this. It is very informative.

http://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/Effective+Game+Killing.html

Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk


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## texasbagman (Oct 1, 2007)

Not really sure I'm understanding the "Ballistic tip" conversation. Are you saying stay away from Nosler Ballistic Tip bullets? Or any plastic tipped bullet?

Nosler Ballistic Tip bullets do expand quickly and often don't leave an exit wound. So if that is not to your liking then stay away.

A lot of companies are putting plastic tips on good hunting bullets such as Barnes, Hornady and Winchester. Staying away from those is just stupid.


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## texasbagman (Oct 1, 2007)

sgrem said:


> Energy and energy transfer etc doesn't kill animals....tissue damage kills animals....i will take two exit wounds any day.


Nonsense.

Tissue damage is caused by energy transfer. The temporary wound cavity and the permanent wound cavity are a result of energy transfer.


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## Fish Aholic (May 13, 2005)

Depends where ya are hunting at imo. I like the 25-06 for where I hunt at (TX Hill Country). I like the Winchester Ballistic Tips in the 115 Grain. I tried everything on the market for the 25-06 and would always hit and kill the animal but sometimes they would run off 100 to 200 yards away. I tried the Winchester Ballistic tip and have not had one run more than 20 yards. 

Now with my 30-06..... just the plain ole CoreLocks work great!


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## B&C (Jul 23, 2010)

I load for my 308 and love the 150gr GMX bullet for it. The TTSX are stronger and don't provide the terminal damage the GMX does. Both are very deadly. 

Varget powder, Rem primers = 3050 FPS. 

I moved away from the heavier bullets (168's and 180's) because they drop a lot more than the 150's at distance. 

Ballistic tips are not a bad choice for the 308. They will exit just fine in the slower rifles. SST's have a thicker jacket and are a probably a better choice for a lead core ballistic tip bullet.


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## B&C (Jul 23, 2010)

I've never recovered a TTSX or GMX bullet. They always exit. I killed 4 hogs in one shot with a TSX in my 7mm STW and it exited the 4th pig....


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## Sgrem (Oct 5, 2005)

texasbagman said:


> Nonsense.
> 
> Tissue damage is caused by energy transfer. The temporary wound cavity and the permanent wound cavity are a result of energy transfer.


Really? How much energy transfer does a broadhead cause? Tissue damage .... in a vital area is all that matters....

Energy transfer shot in the butt might not kill.....but a simple slice of those tissues bleeding out a major artery would.


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## Sgrem (Oct 5, 2005)

B&C said:


> I moved away from the heavier bullets (168's and 180's) because they drop a lot more than the 150's at distance.


Dont know your specific load but generally the heavier for caliber bullets always have a flatter trajectory long range.


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## 2Ws (Jun 28, 2016)

sgrem said:


> Really? How much energy transfer does a broadhead cause? Tissue damage .... in a vital area is all that matters..


Correct, if shot in the leg with a gun you can drive yourself to the hospital......Shot in the leg with a bow and you will die on the way


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## bigfishtx (Jul 17, 2007)

sgrem said:


> Dont know your specific load but generally the heavier for caliber bullets always have a flatter trajectory long range.


Been doing custom loading for almost 50 years and that is the first time I have ever heard that.


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## Sgrem (Oct 5, 2005)

Duh.....yall are right.....i was in a completely different train of thought. Not sure what i was thinking.

Yes the lighter bullets have less drop. Sorry for my incorrect info misprint above....smh


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## DR_Smith (Jul 20, 2016)

sgrem said:


> Duh.....yall are right.....i was in a completely different train of thought. Not sure what i was thinking.
> 
> Yes the lighter bullets have less drop. Sorry for my incorrect info misprint above....smh


I think we have all done that! Haha 
Question though.... If shooting a designed long range bullet with higher BC, like the new berger VLD's, some one correct me if wrong, but on some occasions a heavier grain bullet would shoot flatter then a lighter one? Is this correct or is it just better accuracy and wind drift?


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## bigfishtx (Jul 17, 2007)

If you are comparing bullets in a caliber, a heavier bullet can shoot flatter but only if it has a MUCH higher BC. Otherwise, if both bullets are similar designs, such as BT with fairly high BC's, then the lighter bullet will shoot flatter.
The heavier bullets will retain energy better, but, drop more.


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## Wado (May 15, 2011)

*Barnes/Winchester Power Points*

A video of Barnes promoting their bullets. Of course none of the animals in the first few minutes do the death run. My old buddy that got me into reloading always used 150 grain Power Points mainly because they were cheap and the ones he recovered in pigs were intact and expanded perfectly. Bullets like Barnes were way too pricey to be shooting pigs with and the volume of shots taken. He made most of his shots right in the shoulders and that's probably why he recovered a lot of bullets shot from his .308. He also shot the same bullet from a 30-06 with good success but depending on the range and size of the pig usually the 30-06 either passed through or damaged the bullet more than the slightly slower .308. With some load work he probably could have gotten the lighter kicking .308 closer to the 06' velocities. I shoot Barnes 150's and Power Point 150's in my .308 for hunting and that's it. They both shoot same point of aim, don't kick like a mule and if you send them in the right spot usually a critter dies. I can vouch for the PP's but not the Barnes, I just got a load for them to work in my rifle. The picture is a six shot group of both Barnes and PP's.


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## B&C (Jul 23, 2010)

Lead is heavier than copper. The all copper bullets are longer than the lead core bullets to achieve the same weight. They have higher BC's due to their length. The tissue and bone damage is incredible. 

Here's a 150yd shoulder shot (exit) on a 90# dressed doe with a 308 & a 150 gr GMX.... The entrance side destroyed 3 ribs.

Sorry for the graphic picture but want to show the damage the bullet delivers. 

The Barnes TSX bullets are extremely popular in the mid and south regions of the US. The GMX bullets get more press in the north including Alaska. I would think it would be the other way around because the barnes bullets are stronger. Barnes was also 1st to market. I really like both. Both are extremely accurate (sub .3") in my 308 and 6.5.


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