# skinny water boats



## wickll (Oct 6, 2009)

I am relatively new to saltwater boating. (about 5 years) But it seems to me that in relatively recent years (talking 15 years or so), there have been some big changes leading to boats being able to run in less and less water. 
How recent are some of the skinny water "advancements" like tunnel hulls, low water pick-ups, jack plates, cat-style hulls etc.?

Also, who were some of the leaders in these developments?


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## boss11 (Nov 18, 2010)

Shoalwater 
Dargel
Shallow Sport
Tran Boats
Simmons Custom Boats


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## g2outfitter (Jul 21, 2009)

Haynie
Majek
Shallow Sport
Shoalwater
Transport
Dargel
Scb
Mosca

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## troutsupport (May 22, 2006)

New Water boats are certainly impressive... not just a tunnel...but real technology advancements.

A lot of cat hulls are just 2 hulls... or a big slice cut out down the middle. There have been some advancements in that as well though.. the Desperado (http://www.desperadoboats.com) is worth a look there.

and for super big boats 
the X3 and SCB are tops of the game.


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## mmcclure9 (Dec 19, 2011)

Those mentioned above plus Freedom USA Boats


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## Jerry-rigged (May 21, 2004)

To the OP:

Are you shopping for a boat, or researching the history of skinny water boat design?

Either way, worth a stop at Shallow Sport.


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## patfatdaddy (May 29, 2004)

I run a 16' flatbottom with a 50 HP Yamaha. The motor is raised so that the top of the prop is even with the bottom of the boat. On plane I can go thru about 5 or 6 inches of water. The only problem with this is if I do get stuck nobody can come get me.
Pat


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## wickll (Oct 6, 2009)

Jerry-rigged said:


> To the OP:
> 
> Are you shopping for a boat, or researching the history of skinny water boat design?
> 
> Either way, worth a stop at Shallow Sport.


I am just curious as to the history and who were some of the leaders in the development. We recently purchased a flats type boat after looking at many of the above mentioned brands. We ended up finding a great deal on a Trancat 200 SVT. But what really got me thinking was (at least in my mind) was how cat-style boats have become the rage.

Thanks for all the replies.


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## Kyle 1974 (May 10, 2006)

vannoy, majek, shallowsport original hulls.... 

those are some of the early shallow water boats. 

the cat style hulls haven't been around as long but sure seem to have some benefits over flat bottom tunnel hulls. still isn't a shallower design though.


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## ESCB Factory (Apr 30, 2006)

*Shallow Cats*

I contribute much of the shallow cat design to modified versions of the 1914 Hickman Sea Sled. Yeah, I said 1914!


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## whistlingdixie (Jul 28, 2008)

I would go out on a limb and stay Majek and Shallow Sport are two companies that lead the way in shallow water boat builders.

You have a lot of companies getting in on the market and coming up with a lot of new and original ideas. SCB does a great job of combining performance with shallow water capabilities and delivering some nice high end boats. I think the new fad is shallow water Cat boats and while there are a bunch on the market I still think only a few companies have perfected a true cat hull with out major flaws that can still run shallow.


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## Jerry-rigged (May 21, 2004)

whistlingdixie said:


> I would go out on a limb and stay Majek and Shallow Sport are two companies that lead the way in shallow water boat builders.


And Don't forget Flats Cat. They were the first shallow water cat that I remember.

When I was a kid, I didn't know anyone that had a tunnel hull. If you wanted to go shallow, you ran a john boat with a short shaft motor. When I was 12 or so (mid/late '80's) I remember my Dad's cousin brought by a "new" type of boat - a shallow sport - I think it was a 21' - Tunnel hull, jackplate, real Whiz-Bang. Being raised on 10'-16' flatbottoms, this thing was huge, and Cuz was bragging to Dad about how this thing would go anywhere. So Dad took him up on it... Cuz, Dad, my brother an I head out to a place we called mud lake, where there was normally a foot of water over bottomless mud. We ran all over, no issues, till Cuz shut it down. I don't know what kind of prop he had, but it didn't hook up that day... LOL I think we ended up paddling/poling to deeper water.

The boat ride may have not lived up to Cuz's hype, but I think it did give Dad the burn for a tunnel hull...


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## Larryh (Oct 5, 2010)

*skinny boats*

Look at the Tiburon. Tiburon-boats.com


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## cajunrph (Jan 7, 2014)

Gald this thread came up. I've been looking into Skinny water boats also. My question is how much access is lost with one of the Vee Hull Bay boats that can run in 12" of water vs the specialty skinny water boats running in 6" of water. I don't mean to hijack the thread. 

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk


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## bayourat (Jan 7, 2005)

cajunrph said:


> Gald this thread came up. I've been looking into Skinny water boats also. My question is how much access is lost with one of the Vee Hull Bay boats that can run in 12" of water vs the specialty skinny water boats running in 6" of water. I don't mean to hijack the thread.
> 
> Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk


Depends where you like to fish. Also there is ALOT of difference in running in 6" of soft stuff and static draft over hard bottom. Not many "shallow running" boats will float in 6" over hard bottom while loaded.


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## cajunrph (Jan 7, 2014)

bayourat said:


> Depends where you like to fish. Also there is ALOT of difference in running in 6" of soft stuff and static draft over hard bottom. Not many "shallow running" boats will float in 6" over hard bottom while loaded.


I'd fish Freeport area, West Galveston Bay, Christmas Bay and may be down to East Matagorda bay.

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## pmgoffjr (Jul 30, 2009)

First tunnel hull I saw was in 1974 at Port Isabel, built by Peyton. We've been running tunnels, low water pickups, since late 70's, and Jets since the early 80's. Nothing out there is new, just tweaked.


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## Pat Harkins (Jun 28, 2006)

"Skinny" is a relative term :spineyes::spineyes:


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## Pat Harkins (Jun 28, 2006)

Pat Harkins said:


> "Skinny" is a relative term :spineyes::spineyes:


Ok, how do you turn the dang pic?


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## mkk (May 7, 2009)

.


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## g2outfitter (Jul 21, 2009)

Did you save it. Only reason to be in those weeds is to save your favorite lure. 

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## pevotva (Sep 7, 2005)

I think Mr. Rayburn Haynie in Seadrift has contributed much to boat design in the last 20 years.


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## ralphl (Dec 31, 2013)

I suspect a lot of this shallow water technology is similar to 4 wheel drive technology in that 4 wheel drive will get you into **** that 4WD won't get you out of and likewise, shallow water designs are gonna get a lot of people into water that shallow water designs aren't going to let them get out of. The real measure of a shallow water boat's performance ought to be now how shallow it will run through, but where it will stop, sit to fish, and go again.


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## Kyle 1974 (May 10, 2006)

scb factory said:


> I contribute much of the shallow cat design to modified versions of the 1914 Hickman Sea Sled. Yeah, I said 1914!


touche


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## Pat Harkins (Jun 28, 2006)

Pat Harkins said:


> "Skinny" is a relative term :spineyes::spineyes:





g2outfitter said:


> Did you save it. Only reason to be in those weeds is to save your favorite lure.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2


Make sure your guide isn't a druggie


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## longboat (Apr 14, 2008)

scb factory said:


> I contribute much of the shallow cat design to modified versions of the 1914 Hickman Sea Sled. Yeah, I said 1914!


X2. I don't know that shallow water was the goal of the Sea Sled, but it was definitely an added benefit. It probably would have advanced much more and much quicker if Hickman hadn't been such a jerk himself. The Laguna Tiger used the same hull concept, but I think they had some other issues that eliminated that boat line.

The Brits also did some tunnel design during the early- to mid-1900's, but all of that work was for non-planing displacement hulls. Same can be said for Rescue Minor and those types of designs. I've often wondered if the tunnel design as depicted in Bateau's XF20 ( http://www.bateau.com/studyplans/XF20_study.htm?prod=XF20 )is really good for when a boat is on plane, since it was designed for, I believe, displacement speeds.

I think the future for tunnel design, as it applies to extreme flats boats, will be in the overall design of the hull bottom, making it efficiently channel water towards and into the tunnel. The designs will be geared toward keeping the tunnel primed and full when running through an inch or two of water. Keeping disturbance down in the water in the tunnel will also always be a design goal with room for improvement.


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## wickll (Oct 6, 2009)

Great discussion on the evolution of "skinny water" boats. Longboats link to the Bateau study is really the kind of information I enjoy reading. Hard to believe that although there has been information out there as far back as 1914, it seems like there has been such a surge for these types of boat design . I guess it shows that the "market" has to be there (and the money to support it).


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## Gottagofishin (Dec 17, 2005)

mkk said:


> .


A well known and much respected Sabine guide did that to my buddy's Shallowsport about 10 years ago. We were running the back marshes and he zigged when he should have zagged.

No cell phone signal and no one in sight. We drug that boat through chest deep mud for an hour before we got it to float.

We would have been madder, but he was so embarrassed that we didn't have the heart to be really mad at him. We did give him a ration of carp though.


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## g2outfitter (Jul 21, 2009)

Duckmaster inc in lufkin is still making the Laguna Tiger. Looks good

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## Knotty Fly (Jun 29, 2012)

X2 on Newwater boats. I have a Ibis and it drafts 5" loaded, and I can get up on a hard bottom in 10"

They are a bit pricy.


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## Rancher86 (Nov 15, 2012)

All boats listed above are great shallow running boats. I love the Ibis. Had a Chiquita scooter that has a big tunnel and that thing would do amazing things. Since then traded up to a 21' Flats Cat, the "original" (not a boat history guy), so don't cut them out. You get the hull and rig it like you want it, and for a lot cheaper that Shoalwater... And it will run shallower, IMO. I've had a 21' Shoalwater follow me through Shoalwater Lagoon in POC and he couldn't even get past the entrance. My FC got through fine. So for cats, even though they're not the prettiest, I wouldn't trade mine for the world. With a TRP lower unit on a Yamaha 150 jacked all the way up, it'll get you really, really, really skinny. Maybe not QUITE as skinny as say an RFL or other flat bottom, but for cats, I think it's the shallowest, especially with the TRP (IMO). I've got mine set up where the bottom of the skeg is even with the bottom of the boat trimmed out, and I've run over some incredible stuff (not on purpose) and have always gotten through it. It's the modern original cat hull and it does work. Their website might embellish a little, but It runs crazy skinny for a 21'. My buddies 21' RFL runs a tad bit skinnier, but not by more than an inch or two. A good thing about a cat is you can "walk" over the waves,= a lot less banging around.


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## Winters97gt (Jun 20, 2013)

longboat said:


> X2. I don't know that shallow water was the goal of the Sea Sled, but it was definitely an added benefit. It probably would have advanced much more and much quicker if Hickman hadn't been such a jerk himself. The Laguna Tiger used the same hull concept, but I think they had some other issues that eliminated that boat line.
> 
> The Brits also did some tunnel design during the early- to mid-1900's, but all of that work was for non-planing displacement hulls. Same can be said for Rescue Minor and those types of designs. I've often wondered if the tunnel design as depicted in Bateau's XF20 ( http://www.bateau.com/studyplans/XF20_study.htm?prod=XF20 )is really good for when a boat is on plane, since it was designed for, I believe, displacement speeds.
> 
> I think the future for tunnel design, as it applies to extreme flats boats, will be in the overall design of the hull bottom, making it efficiently channel water towards and into the tunnel. The designs will be geared toward keeping the tunnel primed and full when running through an inch or two of water. Keeping disturbance down in the water in the tunnel will also always be a design goal with room for improvement.


Love reading informative, interesting posts like these.

Good stuff in here.


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## southbay (Aug 30, 2010)

Anyone think the brewski in his hand had anything to do with ending up in the Mangroves?


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## longboat (Apr 14, 2008)

g2outfitter said:


> Duckmaster inc in lufkin is still making the Laguna Tiger. Looks good
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2


Good to see that they brought them back. That line had disappeared from the website for a year or two, and rumor was that the company was fixing an issue with the hull. I don't personally know how that hull would perform, but the concept is good.


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## longboat (Apr 14, 2008)

Winters97gt said:


> Love reading informative, interesting posts like these.
> 
> Good stuff in here.


Thanks, just passing along info I've picked up while researching tunnels over the last decade.

If I were designing a boat for maximum shallow water performance, I think I'd start with a Hickman-type inverted V, but not nearly as aggressive - it would have a very gradual negative deadrise, like one degree, just enough to "herd" the water toward the center of the hull. Then, in the center of the hull, place the tunnel. Tunnel would be minimum six feet long, as deep as half the prop diameter and an inch or two wider than prop diameter. Of course, a vent with on/off valve would be incorporated in the leading edge of the tunnel.

I've thought about placing ridges (ice runners) near the chines to hold the water under the hull, but those things are a real pain if you ever run aground (speaking from experience).

Full-length tunnels may be an option if you can adequately control the air that may get trapped in the tunnel. The cat-style boats are a good example of this - depending on design they can "sneeze" in a good chop (blowing water out the front of the boat, potentially getting spray into the boat). A good "tunnel" prop goes a long way in dealing with turbulent tunnel water.

Of course, there are other things to think about in boat design, like handling at speed. With no center keel, handling can become a little squirrelly, and you start relying on chines and skeg to keep the boat going where you want it. This, of course, can lead to safety issues, and may be one reason you don't see more boat builders exploring that area.


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## Jerry-rigged (May 21, 2004)

longboat said:


> Thanks, just passing along info I've picked up while researching tunnels over the last decade.
> 
> If I were designing a boat for maximum shallow water performance, I think I'd start with a Hickman-type inverted V, but not nearly as aggressive - it would have a very gradual negative deadrise, like one degree, just enough to "herd" the water toward the center of the hull. Then, in the center of the hull, place the tunnel. Tunnel would be minimum six feet long, as deep as half the prop diameter and an inch or two wider than prop diameter. Of course, a vent with on/off valve would be incorporated in the leading edge of the tunnel.
> 
> ...


Longboat - Have you seen the Bateau TX18? almost what you describe, but no tunnel. Hickman sled that starts out semi-aggressive, and tapers to almost flat. I was active on the Bateau message board when that boat was getting designed and released. The Designer was very against putting a tunnel in that style of hull. The hull is designed to lift the back of the hull onto the foam/aireated water, and a tunnel would just channel all this foam to the prop, and you would not get the prop to bite. Sounds good on paper, but I think the TX cat boat builders have proven him wrong, or at least that the issue is not a big deal.

BTW, the first TX18 that hit the water was done in Mississippi. Guy put an old OMC 70hp motor on it and was running 45 or so.


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## longboat (Apr 14, 2008)

Jerry-rigged said:


> Longboat - Have you seen the Bateau TX18? almost what you describe, but no tunnel. Hickman sled that starts out semi-aggressive, and tapers to almost flat. I was active on the Bateau message board when that boat was getting designed and released. The Designer was very against putting a tunnel in that style of hull. The hull is designed to lift the back of the hull onto the foam/aireated water, and a tunnel would just channel all this foam to the prop, and you would not get the prop to bite. Sounds good on paper, but I think the TX cat boat builders have proven him wrong, or at least that the issue is not a big deal.
> 
> BTW, the first TX18 that hit the water was done in Mississippi. Guy put an old OMC 70hp motor on it and was running 45 or so.


No, I was not aware of that development. Interesting. I think the key would be minimizing air that gets under the hull. Some of the cat builders have done that with baffles. In fact, I had considered that a while back, and thought maybe a bulbous bow would be the answer to keeping air out, but haven't thought much about it beyond that. I remember an updated version of _Rescue Minor_ out there that has the same concept, although that is for a displacement vessel. I think it may be Bateau's SeaBright Tunnel: http://www.bateau.com/studyplans/ST21_study.htm?prod=ST21

I think the specialized tunnel props with large blade area have gone a long way toward reducing the issues with foamy water.


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## trevor21 (May 19, 2012)

I have a New Water Curlew and have nothing but good things to say about it. It floats in an honest 5" of water and have not fully tested its shallow water capability yet but I will say it will at least run where it will float without dragging. It does take about 10" to get up on a hard bottom but I have also got it up with the boat pretty much on bottom in mud as the tide was falling fast. Its not the best open water boat but it is far from being unsafe in heavy chop. Mine is before the lamiflow system was added and I would really like to ride on one with that system to experience the difference.

I spent alot of my mid teen years on my uncles baby cat at that is another great choice for shallow water. Now he has a hells bay whipray and for poling or 1-2 people, that would be my dream boat.


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## Jerry-rigged (May 21, 2004)

Rescue Minor is a very cool boat. Inboard, semi-displacement (20mph max) only needs 20-25hp (can be small tractor diesel!) floats in 6"-8", and will start/run anywhere it will float. As the name implies, it was designed a s rescue boat that could run out the Carolina inlets (big water) but still run shallow as needed. I've always thought it would make a great flats skiff, with the right deck layout.


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## longboat (Apr 14, 2008)

Jerry-rigged said:


> Rescue Minor is a very cool boat. Inboard, semi-displacement (20mph max) only needs 20-25hp (can be small tractor diesel!) floats in 6"-8", and will start/run anywhere it will float. As the name implies, it was designed a s rescue boat that could run out the Carolina inlets (big water) but still run shallow as needed. I've always thought it would make a great flats skiff, with the right deck layout.


Yep, RM would be one of my top picks for an easygoing bay/flats cruiser - just can't go anywhere in a hurry. I got a Kubota 23hp tractor at work with a Perkins 3-cylinder diesel - would be a sweet little motor in that rig. Would probably get upwards of 12mpg! Like you said, would need some major re-decking to be a nice fishing platform, though.


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## Pat Harkins (Jun 28, 2006)

southbay said:


> Anyone think the brewski in his hand had anything to do with ending up in the Mangroves?


Wrong again. Guide was a "Meth Head". Thankfully we didn't have to pay for his lack of skills.


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## Dfennen29 (Feb 3, 2013)

One thing that is as important as hull design is the right prop for the hull. Ideally all shallow water boats are running around with a TRP lower unit unfortunately yamaha does not make them any more. A single prop cupped perfect for the hull and weight of the boat can be the difference between night and day as far as being able to get up in shallow water.


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## fishin shallow (Jul 31, 2005)

Dfennen29 said:


> Ideally all shallow water boats are running around with a TRP lower unit unfortunately yamaha does not make them any more. .


Since when:headknock


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## Rancher86 (Nov 15, 2012)

I think he meant "ideally" for those that can afford it. There is no topping a TRP lower unit, no matter what single prop you use. A TRP will always allow you to get up, and run shallower most the time


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## MajekMike (Jan 27, 2011)

*TRP*

My BIL just bought a new TRP lower unit from Premier Yamaha about 2 months ago


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## cheetah (May 30, 2006)

*Stoner Boats*

Robert has been building shallow water Skiffs for 50 Years and a lot of them are still on the water. I am getting ready to pick up my Stoner Supercat, it will be matched with a 150 yammy SHO and a trp lower unit!
Can't wait

Capt Andy


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## peque (Aug 3, 2012)

What was the question???
I have been in that chiquita and patriot by freedom boats, both boat perform really nice, tha majeck its one of my favorite boats to run shqllow/ Duck hunting.. and in all honesty my Shallowsport runs in 3-4" al full throttle... The qustion you should ask to yourself is. What would be the porpuse of your boat?? If its suoer shallow wiyh the risk of runni g in mud,, u should also consider the mudboats...my .02


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## Rancher86 (Nov 15, 2012)

Didn't know they started making the TRP again... that's awesome news. That matched with a Stoner Cat would be an ideal bad a setup. I've got one on a Flats Cat, but if it came down to it, the Stoner might take the cake, or a Freedom (used to have a Chiquita... also a bad boy)


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## captfrankie (Apr 2, 2006)

*My Two Cents*

I had a Gulfcoast 23VS with a 225 Suzuki. I fished in a friends Desperado Outlaw 22 with a Yamaha 225 SHO a few times. I bought one last May. Great boat. Very comfortable ride , very stable at rest, runs shallower than I care too( they say 2-3 inches), floats in 12" , takes off in 12" ,more storage than I need. Runs 30 mph @ 4000 RPM's , 52mph @ 5400 RPM's . 30-35 is enough for me.


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## railbird (Jan 2, 2009)

I'm not sure who built the first skinny water tunnel skiffs, but I have a very good idea who perfected them. Majek rfl............


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## pmgoffjr (Jul 30, 2009)

Dang...it's all sporting until you whip that thing out and flop it on the bar. 

None of the prop guys can say anything, they just shut up and go sit in the corner.


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## commtrd (Mar 18, 2006)

ralphl said:


> I suspect a lot of this shallow water technology is similar to 4 wheel drive technology in that 4 wheel drive will get you into **** that 4WD won't get you out of and likewise, shallow water designs are gonna get a lot of people into water that shallow water designs aren't going to let them get out of. The real measure of a shallow water boat's performance ought to be now how shallow it will run through, but where it will stop, sit to fish, and go again.


Amen brother! Well said...


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## Rancher86 (Nov 15, 2012)

commtrd said:


> Amen brother! Well said...


Agreed. Well said. A lot of boats will run on a moderate mph plane through 3 inches, but no way in heck they are stopping. When I cross super shallow water in my Flats Cat 21 w/ TRP, if I shut down I would be screwed. The boat loaded drafts about 9", and in mud it will get up in 9". And that is confirmed. But sand is a different story. If a "skinny" boat can run through 9" of water but not jump up out of that 9", then that's a whole other story.


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## Bird (May 10, 2005)

I'd throw Davis Gordon of El Pescador boats in the mix for his work on the tunnel design. Also, we have to look at the modifications done to the old Boston Whaler cathedral hull shape that was used by Gulf Coast and Trans Sport.

Talked with Steve Hicks last year about TRP lower units and Yamaha isn't making them as a regular production lower unit. They haven't discontinued them just made in very limited quantities during special production runs was my understanding.


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## oldfishinguy (Jun 15, 2013)

I bought a Freedom Patriot last summer (18' cat powered by 115 yammie+4 blade prop) and I love it. It is great in rough water and will run really skinny. Forrest Canyon, et al, in Port Lavaca where they build them thought about this boat a long time before going commercial and things are in the right place. I have number 25; I suspect he has built 3/4 more since I got mine. Super quality construction--go on line and look at Freedom Boats. They have a good video.


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