# A Blog For Jehovah's Witnesses And Those Who Love Them



## KeeperTX

Do you love Jehovah's Witnesses? This guy has spent 23 years with them and still loves them. Even if you're not a Jehovah's witness, you can learn a lot from him. Be blessed and bless others.

http://thewatchtowerfiles.com/mystory/


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## bigfishtx

My wife works with one and what a dark, depressed life they live.


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## KeeperTX

It is sad to see some people who become slaves to religions or denominations. The sad part is they are somehow convinced or manipulated into believing that they are doing what they want to do, when in reality they have become enslaved (programmed). Christ came to set us free.

*Galatians 5*
Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. 2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. 3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. 4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. 5 For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.


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## TrueblueTexican

*Dougs witness is a powerful one*

He is but one of many people who grew up in a Protestant church and were captured by the Cult - as he said many fine well meaning people. PROGRAMMED using techniques peculiar to many cults, Doug mentioned many good books, all of which Followers of Christ should read so as to understand what has happened to followers of this cult - PRAY for those you know so deceived that God may set them free from the bondage of Lucifer.

When you challenge Watchtower missionaries ALWAYS have at hand , a trustworthy God inspired Bible to challenge the fallacies of the NWT. Their circular reasoning will drive you NUTS, but armed with Gods Word which never returns empty , you will be planting a seed that God will see comes to fruition.

Our real problem is a shallow understanding of Gods Word - as I get older I pray God continues to Challenge me to read and memorize his words spend that time with your Creator folks he still speaks.


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## TrueblueTexican

*A little correction*

People who are so deceived are WATCHTOWER witnesses - they have NOTHING to do with the Creator. They have captured a name they use for(their) God - please call them what they are Disciples of the Watchtower Society.


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## Tortuga

bigfishtx said:


> My wife works with one and what a dark, depressed life they live.


My 'Right Arm' in my business is a Witness. When I hired her 20 years ago we had an understanding that religion would be left at the front door .. She is the most cheerful, happy, fun loving person I know...and she is also responsible for about half of my business (International...she is Mexican). I would trust her with my life. I attended her wedding about a dozen years ago and can truthfully say that it was the most fun of any wedding I have seen in all my years....

So, not all of them fit your description.. We disagree on religion but both of us enjoy life and being around each other..and my customers....

Gracias.......:rotfl:


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## atcfisherman

I agree that many are nice people. Our previous receptionist was one who was actually a morman before she became a JW. She was fantastic at her job and a pleasure to work with. But that was not a result of JW. It was her personality. 

She is still seeking the truth and at least was willing to openly discuss. Others like the aggressive one on 2cool like to bully others because the more they do that, the more confident they are right in their beliefs.

It's like standing on a train track with your back to the oncoming train. The conductor is blowing the whistle, but the person on the track looking the other way just starts shouting louder "There is no train....there is no train!"


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## TrueblueTexican

*Yes*



Tortuga said:


> My 'Right Arm' in my business is a Witness. When I hired her 20 years ago we had an understanding that religion would be left at the front door .. She is the most cheerful, happy, fun loving person I know...and she is also responsible for about half of my business (International...she is Mexican). I would trust her with my life. I attended her wedding about a dozen years ago and can truthfully say that it was the most fun of any wedding I have seen in all my years....
> 
> So, not all of them fit your description.. We disagree on religion but both of us enjoy life and being around each other..and my customers....
> 
> Gracias.......:rotfl:


Most I know lead their lives in ways that should be admired, almost all I know I have a good time disagreeing with, for we ALL sin and come short of the Holiness of God - God will be the ultimate referee, I hope that the practitioners of a false gospel will be forgiven when they stand before the judge - I do not know Gods mind, but I do know he is just.


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## bigfishtx

Tortuga said:


> My 'Right Arm' in my business is a Witness. When I hired her 20 years ago we had an understanding that religion would be left at the front door .. She is the most cheerful, happy, fun loving person I know...and she is also responsible for about half of my business (International...she is Mexican). I would trust her with my life. I attended her wedding about a dozen years ago and can truthfully say that it was the most fun of any wedding I have seen in all my years....
> 
> So, not all of them fit your description.. We disagree on religion but both of us enjoy life and being around each other..and my customers....
> 
> Gracias.......:rotfl:


I am sure there are exceptions, but this lady is just sad all the time. And don't bother telling her happy birthday or, merry Christmas because they refuse to observe those occasions. Glad you met one with a different outlook on things.


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## atcfisherman

This was a great read with many truths in it. I'm glad to see at lease one person saw the truth and left the cult.


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## WillieT

I am going to respond to this thread and this will be the last time I will respond to an attack on Jehovah's Witnesses. I read part of the blog. I do not know if Doug grew up as a witness, or ever was a witness. There are many things he said that, without being totally blunt and saying what I think, I will say are questionable at best, other statements are laughable. Apostates have always tried to undermine the preaching work, and witnesses in general. His blog is certainly along those lines.

Many apostates were in fact once Jehovah's Witnesses. Most became apostate, because they could not live up to the moral code, and were disfellowshipped. This is in line with the scripture at 1 Corinthians 5: 11-13 . 11â€¯But now I am writing you to stop keeping company with anyone called a brother who is sexually immoral or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man. 12â€¯For what do I have to do with judging those outside? Do you not judge those inside, 13â€¯while God judges those outside? â€œRemove the wicked person from among yourselves.â€
They want to strike back or get even. That is why you read negative things on the internet about Jehovah's Witnesses. I hope most of you understand that not everything you read on the internet is true, although I am sure some think it is all true.

As far as some that live a dark, depressed life. There are people from every religion that live dark and depressed lives. Many are haunted by depression and have a hard time dealing, and that is a real shame, no matter who you are. My wife, at times struggles with depression. It is something that she cannot explain, and I cannot understand because it is something I have never really experienced. I do not consider her to lead a dark life. She is generally upbeat, happy person, but depression is very real.

Bullying? Really!!! You really need to go back and read your post here, as well as in other threads, and some of the other posts on here to see who really tries to bully. There are 3 on here that really take it too far at times. I will defend God's Word and if you consider that bullying, so be it. I think you are as confused in that statement as you are about other things. I do not attack other religions, or personally attack others here. Pot meet kettle. Look at what the scriptures say about true Christians. 

As for me, I have been captured by no one. My only regret is that I did not find the truth earlier in my life. The scriptures say that the main identifying mark of a true Christian is the love found among themselves. 

John 13:35 35â€¯By this all will know that you are my disciplesâ€”if you have love among yourselves.â€

I am not trying to pick on any religious groups, but one that has posted here talked about Protestants being captured by this horrible cult. Let me ask you this, have you ever heard of Protestants killing Protestants, or for that matter Catholics killing Catholics. I will not answer that for you because you know the answer. You will not read of Witnesses killing Witnesses....ever. How many so called religious leaders have blessed and encouraged the soldiers they were sending to their death. Do you really think that is something Jesus would approve of. My namesake, the son of my godmother and godfather was one of those soldiers.

Agree or disagree with my take on the scriptures, I have no problem with that, but I will defend God's Word and the truth, in hopes that someone out there reads something that causes them to stop and think. Maybe it will happen maybe it won't, everybody makes their own choices.

Mr. Tortuga, thanks for the kind words for the Witnesses. We try our best to live our lives in a moral, honest, upright way, knowing that we all fall short of the righteous mark that Jehovah sets before us. But we pray that when the end comes, either with our death, or with the end of this wicked system that we live in, that God will have us in His memory, and we will be resurrected back to a paradise earth.


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## WillieT

atcfisherman said:


> This was a great read with many truths in it. I'm glad to see at lease one person saw the truth and left the cult.


How do you know the truth? Have you ever studied with the witnesses, been directly associated with the witnesses, or even been to a meeting. How can you possibly know the truth? You repeat things you read on the Internet. But we all know if it's on the Internet it has to be true. Right?


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## KeeperTX

I would have to disagree. Doug shows no sign of being apostate. He sounds like a follower of Jesus Christ who has first hand experience with a cult and he is exposing the works of darkness. The only way he would be an apostate is if the JW's preach s different gospel.

Another thing, I have heard many times of witnesses killing witnesses, even their own children. There's been many cases where a loved one died because they were denied the opportunity to receive a life saving blood transfusion.


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## WillieT

KeeperTX said:


> I would have to disagree. Doug shows no sign of being apostate. He sounds like a follower of Jesus Christ who has first hand experience with a cult and he is exposing the works of darkness. The only way he would be an apostate is if the JW's preach s different gospel.


Not true at all


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## TrueblueTexican

*Usually*



atcfisherman said:


> This was a great read with many truths in it. I'm glad to see at lease one person saw the truth and left the cult.


Its the other way around a "hurt" person, rejected by a denomination, who rebels, and unfortunately becomes a capture of lies.

Shaggy will tell you he was "disenfranchised" from a Methodist denomination.

He understands the NWT very well not so much the Gospel of Christ.


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## WillieT

TrueblueTexican said:


> Its the other way around a "hurt" person, rejected by a denomination, who rebels, and unfortunately becomes a capture of lies.
> 
> Shaggy will tell you he was "disenfranchised" from a Methodist denomination.
> 
> He understands the NWT very well not so much the Gospel of Christ.


LOL


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## atcfisherman

shaggydog said:


> How do you know the truth? Have you ever studied with the witnesses, been directly associated with the witnesses, or even been to a meeting. How can you possibly know the truth? You repeat things you read on the Internet. But we all know if it's on the Internet it has to be true. Right?


I know the truth because I have studied God's word for years, been around many great Godly teachers and I have a relationship with my lord and savior.

Yes, I have studied what the JW group believes and all their ways. I have a friend who was one for many years and was finally saved and left the cult.

Shaggy,

All you do is the following.
1) Cry when others point out the error of the JW beliefs.
2) Attack others to divert attention from you and the truth of the JW.
3) Enjoy arguing to the point no one wants to discuss with you.

Many times over there have been scriptures people have shown you and you answer with other cherry picked scriptures or just avoid them all together.

Looking back two years ago, you caused so much trouble in this section that you were banned. Now somehow you are back. And you think that because others are trying to show you the error of your ways that you are persevering as a true believer. Many people in the world are persecuted for many beliefs, but that doesn't mean their beliefs are correct.

One questions for you and it's a yes or no question.

If you honestly sought the Holy Spirit to show you the truth and he did and you found out the JW organization was a cult, would you leave it? It's a simple yes or no answer.

You see, even though I attend a Baptist church, I am only loyal to my lord and savior. If the Baptist church I go to started twisting scriptures to fit another gospel, I would leave immediately. Why? Because it's not about an organization. *It's all about God's redeeming love through Jesus Christ.*

So again, can you answer the question with a simple yes or no?


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## atcfisherman

shaggydog said:


> Not true at all


It's easy to type "not true at all." Please provide evidence that show it's not true.


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## WillieT

Not just yes, but absolutely. The fact is, it is absolutely the truth. I bet my eternal life on it. If I'm wrong, I fell I have led a more morally upright life. If I'm right, I look forward to living forever on a paradise earth. And that is all scriptural. God created man perfect, placed him in a paradise, and told him he would live forever if he obeyed. God's purposes do not change.


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## atcfisherman

shaggydog said:


> Not just yes, but absolutely. The fact is, it is absolutely the truth. I bet my eternal life on it. If I'm wrong, I fell I have led a more morally upright life. If I'm right, I look forward to living forever on a paradise earth. And that is all scriptural. God created man perfect, placed him in a paradise, and told him he would live forever if he obeyed. God's purposes do not change.


But without a punishment in hell, then just being killed and not existing anymore is no deterrent to many people.

*So since you said yes, then you are telling us that you are willing to study and discuss the bible with us on here apart from what the JW have taught you and only study the bible?*


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## WillieT

I study the bible, period


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## KeeperTX

shaggydog said:


> Not true at all


Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth?


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## WillieT

KeeperTX said:


> Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth?


You have made it clear I am your enemy in the past, strictly because I disagree with you. Just for the record I do not consider you my enemy, just someone that does not agree with my scriptural views.


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## TrueblueTexican

*Some real truth*

Is that the NWT is a tool of Lucifer - period, let me name just a few examples starting with GENISIS

Gen. 1:1-2--"In [the] beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Now the earth proved to be formless and waste and there was darkness upon the surface of [the] watery deep; and God's active force was moving to and fro over the surface of the waters." (New World Translation, emphasis added).

The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society denies that the Holy Spirit is alive--the third person of the Trinity. Therefore, they have changed the correct translation of 
" . . . the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters," to say " . . . and God's active force was moving to and fro over the surface of the waters."

Zech. 12:10--In this verse God is speaking and says, "And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son." (Zech. 12:10, NASB).
The Jehovah's Witnesses change the word "me" to "the one" so that it says in the Watchtowers "Bible, " . . . they will look upon the one whom they have pierced . . . "
Since the Watchtower disciples deny that Jesus is God in flesh, then Zech. 12:10 would present obvious problems--so they changed it.

John 1:1--The Watchtower mis-translates the verse as "a god." Again, it is because they deny who Jesus is and must change the Bible to make it agree with their theology. The Watchtower version is this: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god."

Col. 1:15-17--The word "other" is inserted 4 times. It is not in the original Greek--nor is it implied. This is a section where Jesus is described as being the creator of all things. Since the Watchtower organization believes that Jesus was created, they have inserted the word "other" to show that Jesus was before all "other" things and implying that He is created.
There are two Greek words for "other": heteros, and allos. The first means another of a different kind, and the second means another of the same kind. Neither is used at all in this section of scripture. The Watchtower disciples have changed the Bible to make it fit their aberrant theology.

Heb. 1:6--In this verse they translate the Greek word for worship, proskuneo, as "obeisance." Obeisance is a word that means to honor, show respect--even bow down before someone. Since Jesus, to them, is created, then he cannot be worshiped. They have also done this in other verses concerning Jesus, i.e., Matt. 2:2,11; 14:33; 28:9.

Heb. 1:8--This is a verse where God the Father is calling Jesus God: "But about the Son he says, 'Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.'" Since the Watchtower disciples don't agree with that, they have changed the Bible, yet again, to agree with their theology. They have translated the verse as " . . . God is your throne . . . " The problem with the Jehovah's Witness translation is that this verse is a quote from Psalm 45:6 which, from the Hebrew, can only be translated as " . . . Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom." To justify their New Testament translation they actually changed the OT verse to agree with their theology, too!

Shaggy you are on some very shaky ground, you suppose you have the only true path to salvation, and only by believing in a patently FALSE translation of Gods Word !! I can demonstrate many more changes that the Watchtower has done to Gods Word, but don't have the space here -- I will stand opposed to what you say, its sounds good, attracts as would honey, but in the end will be bitter as wormwood.


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## TrueblueTexican

*Not quite*



shaggydog said:


> I study the bible, period


You follow (study) the NWT - which has altered the Bible, what you study is a book of Lucifer.


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## TrueblueTexican

*Ouch*

Shaggy you Worship the Watchtower !! I count it a blessing that you have no other words than to say

except this in a PM "You do not know what you are talking about. You are very childish."

Thank you I prefer being like a child.


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## WillieT

TrueblueTexican said:


> Shaggy you Worship the Watchtower !! I count it a blessing that you have no other words than to say
> 
> except this in a PM "You do not know what you are talking about. You are very childish."
> 
> Thank you I prefer being like a child.


That was in return for the red you gave me. Let's just be honest about things.


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## KeeperTX

shaggydog said:


> You have made it clear I am your enemy in the past, strictly because I disagree with you. Just for the record I do not consider you my enemy, just someone that does not agree with my scriptural views.


Shaggy what is concerning is that the watchtower has become an enemy of God by perverting the Gospel and deceiving many. And you have obviously chosen to be counted amongst them instead of standing with Jesus Christ. If we disagreed about minor issues, then I would have no problem calling you my brother, but it is obvious that you follow a different Jesus and not the God of the bible.


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## WillieT

KeeperTX said:


> Shaggy what is concerning is that the watchtower has become an enemy of God by perverting the Gospel and deceiving many. And you have obviously chosen to be counted amongst them instead of standing with Jesus Christ. If we disagreed about minor issues, then I would have no problem calling you my brother, but it is obvious that you follow a different Jesus and not the God of the bible.


I am a follower of Jehovah God and Jesus Christ.


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## WillieT

KeeperTX said:


> Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth?


Out of all the negative statements on here, this is really the only one that bothers me. Just because people disagree, it is hard for me to understand this. I don't consider anyone on here an enemy and Woul buy any a cold drink of their choice.


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## KeeperTX

shaggydog said:


> Out of all the negative statements on here, this is really the only one that bothers me. Just because people disagree, it is hard for me to understand this. I don't consider anyone on here an enemy and Woul buy any a cold drink of their choice.


If you really want to understand it, you need to study Galatians chapter 4.

Here are a few other scriptures that might help you to better understand:

Ephesians 5:11-12 11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. 12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.

Psalm 94:16 Who will rise up for me against the evildoers? or who will stand up for me against the workers of iniquity?

John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

Titus 1:10-13 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:
11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.
12 One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, the Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.
13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;

1 Corinthians 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?


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## WillieT

KeeperTX said:


> If you really want to understand it, you need to study Galatians chapter 4.
> 
> Here are a few other scriptures that might help you to better understand:
> 
> Ephesians 5:11-12 11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. 12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
> 
> Psalm 94:16 Who will rise up for me against the evildoers? or who will stand up for me against the workers of iniquity?
> 
> John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
> 
> Titus 1:10-13 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:
> 11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.
> 12 One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, the Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.
> 13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;
> 
> 1 Corinthians 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?


I guess I will continue to be your enemy. I agree with the scriptures you quoted, totally disagree on you view of the Watchtower and Tract Society. Again I have been on both sides. I know what each espouses, and how members of each live their lives. I lead a much better life in the eyes of God than I used to. I am privileged glad to be where I am. The masses ridiculed Jesus and his disciples. The same goes on with his followers today. We understand it will happen, and feel sorry for those who think we are their enemies. Broad and spacious is the road leading to destruction. Only time will tell who is right. I still do not consider you my enemy, I know you do not feel the same about me.


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## atcfisherman

TrueblueTexican said:


> Is that the NWT is a tool of Lucifer - period, let me name just a few examples starting with GENISIS
> 
> Gen. 1:1-2--"In [the] beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
> Now the earth proved to be formless and waste and there was darkness upon the surface of [the] watery deep; and God's active force was moving to and fro over the surface of the waters." (New World Translation, emphasis added).
> 
> The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society denies that the Holy Spirit is alive--the third person of the Trinity. Therefore, they have changed the correct translation of
> " . . . the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters," to say " . . . and God's active force was moving to and fro over the surface of the waters."
> 
> Zech. 12:10--In this verse God is speaking and says, "And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son." (Zech. 12:10, NASB).
> The Jehovah's Witnesses change the word "me" to "the one" so that it says in the Watchtowers "Bible, " . . . they will look upon the one whom they have pierced . . . "
> Since the Watchtower disciples deny that Jesus is God in flesh, then Zech. 12:10 would present obvious problems--so they changed it.
> 
> John 1:1--The Watchtower mis-translates the verse as "a god." Again, it is because they deny who Jesus is and must change the Bible to make it agree with their theology. The Watchtower version is this: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god."
> 
> Col. 1:15-17--The word "other" is inserted 4 times. It is not in the original Greek--nor is it implied. This is a section where Jesus is described as being the creator of all things. Since the Watchtower organization believes that Jesus was created, they have inserted the word "other" to show that Jesus was before all "other" things and implying that He is created.
> There are two Greek words for "other": heteros, and allos. The first means another of a different kind, and the second means another of the same kind. Neither is used at all in this section of scripture. The Watchtower disciples have changed the Bible to make it fit their aberrant theology.
> 
> Heb. 1:6--In this verse they translate the Greek word for worship, proskuneo, as "obeisance." Obeisance is a word that means to honor, show respect--even bow down before someone. Since Jesus, to them, is created, then he cannot be worshiped. They have also done this in other verses concerning Jesus, i.e., Matt. 2:2,11; 14:33; 28:9.
> 
> Heb. 1:8--This is a verse where God the Father is calling Jesus God: "But about the Son he says, 'Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.'" Since the Watchtower disciples don't agree with that, they have changed the Bible, yet again, to agree with their theology. They have translated the verse as " . . . God is your throne . . . " The problem with the Jehovah's Witness translation is that this verse is a quote from Psalm 45:6 which, from the Hebrew, can only be translated as " . . . Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom." To justify their New Testament translation they actually changed the OT verse to agree with their theology, too!
> 
> Shaggy you are on some very shaky ground, you suppose you have the only true path to salvation, and only by believing in a patently FALSE translation of Gods Word !! I can demonstrate many more changes that the Watchtower has done to Gods Word, but don't have the space here -- I will stand opposed to what you say, its sounds good, attracts as would honey, but in the end will be bitter as wormwood.


Fantastic examples of how they change the Word of God to fit their beliefs. The interesting thing is Shaggy has ignored you on these scriptures because he does that all the time. If he really wanted to disprove the above scriptures, then he would give a rebuttal to each scripture with evidence, not from what they have brainwashed him with.


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## atcfisherman

shaggydog said:


> ...........The masses ridiculed Jesus and his disciples. The same goes on with his followers today........QUOTE]
> 
> Shaggy,
> 
> That is a false sense of security assuming that because you are ridiculed, you are in the right. Many people of different faiths are ridiculed, but that doesn't mean their beliefs are of God.


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## KeeperTX

atcfisherman said:


> Fantastic examples of how they change the Word of God to fit their beliefs. The interesting thing is Shaggy has ignored you on these scriptures because he does that all the time. If he really wanted to disprove the above scriptures, then he would give a rebuttal to each scripture with evidence, not from what they have brainwashed him with.


x2

These are scriptures straight from the bible and Trueblue has pointed out exactly how the watchtower has changed them to fit their false theology. How can somebody shut their eyes to the truth?


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## KeeperTX

*Another changed scripture*

This one has to do with the Trinity, so I can clearly see why they felt the need to change it.

*John 8:58*

Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. KJV

Jesus said to them: â€œMost truly I say to you, before Abraham came into existence, I have been.â€ NWT


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## TrueblueTexican

*God help me*

Not to have an "opinion" but to be charged by the Holy Spirit in Truth to your word

Shaggy suffers from the programming that the Kingdom Halls of the Watchtower Org, do to its adherents - I won't , or we won't, nor can anyone *in their own powe*r deflect this group from being Lucifers tools -

Invite their deceived acolytes into your home,( I see them at least once a month, and lately have been accosted at BOAT RAMPS )- but BEFORE you do ask the Holy Spirit to give you the words from Scripture to counter their presentation as a witness for Christ. If you do not ground and equip yourself to do battle with Lucifer, you can be captured by their circular reasoning - Shaggy cannot refute what I posted, he knows that the NWT has changed Gods Word -

Lucifer won't respond, he has told a little lie which flies, and that is his modus operandi, telling the brethren little lies, to see whom he can get to believe them.

I like what my Pastors says "Try EVERY word I say against what is written in Gods word, so I do not lead you in error." This before EVERY teaching sermon !!!

Father I lift up this published deception to you, Lord your word goes out and it always bears fruit. Lord for people reading this I first ask forgiveness from those who turn away from confrontation. Help me to remain True to your great commission, to your Word, and to always oppose Lucifer's corruption. Father I ask in JESUS name for you to convict those who have believed what MAN has said and to take time to truly find out what God has said. You tell us in your Word that from infancy we have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make people wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for instruction, for conviction, for correction, and for training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be complete, fully equipped for every good work.â€¦ Lord I stand on your Word, and ask that you send conviction on all those who read this and are under Lucifers rule , send revival in hearts and minds, as we seek your kingdom. In the name of your Son Jesus I pray.


----------



## atcfisherman

^^^^^
Amen


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## KeeperTX

Yes & Amen!


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## atcfisherman

Shaggy is probably consulting his WT society folks for answers from their little books rather than straight from the bible.


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## WillieT

Gen. 1:1-2--"In [the] beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Now the earth proved to be formless and waste and there was darkness upon the surface of [the] watery deep; and God's active force was moving to and fro over the surface of the waters." (New World Translation, emphasis added).

The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society denies that the Holy Spirit is alive--the third person of the Trinity. Therefore, they have changed the correct translation of
" . . . the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters," to say " . . . and God's active force was moving to and fro over the surface of the waters."

What is the difference in meaning of "the Spirit of God was moving" and "God's active force was moving". They both say the same, and they both show possession, yes look at the KJV "the Spirit of God" clearly shows that the spirit is controlled by Him......in both translations. Sorry, I am just not going to respond to someone that thinks he knows more than he does, not in just this forum either. I am sure TBTexican is a nice guy, but you just can't know everything about everything.

I have nothing against you TBT, but I will espouse my beliefs, just as you do yours.


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## atcfisherman

shaggydog said:


> Gen. 1:1-2--"In [the] beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
> Now the earth proved to be formless and waste and there was darkness upon the surface of [the] watery deep; and God's active force was moving to and fro over the surface of the waters." (New World Translation, emphasis added).
> 
> The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society denies that the Holy Spirit is alive--the third person of the Trinity. Therefore, they have changed the correct translation of
> " . . . the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters," to say " . . . and God's active force was moving to and fro over the surface of the waters."
> *So you just admitted to us that they changed it to fit their man made beliefs! About time! Because the original writings say the Spirit of God. Thus, this is a blatant choice to change God's Holy Word!*
> 
> What is the difference in meaning of "the Spirit of God was moving" and "God's active force was moving". They both say the same, and they both show possession, yes look at the KJV "the Spirit of God" clearly shows that the spirit is controlled by Him......in both translations. Sorry, I am just not going to respond to someone that thinks he knows more than he does, not in just this forum either. I am sure TBTexican is a nice guy, but you just can't know everything about everything. *So you are basically saying you can't defend your beliefs based on what scriptures were presented. In several post earlier, you said we should only use scriptures and thus TBTexican did that. But you have yet to address the scriptures. That is all he is asking of you. Take the scriptures that he showed us and explain why each one is wrong in the original text and why the JW translations are all of a sudden right. *
> 
> I have nothing against you TBT, but I will espouse my beliefs, just as you do yours.


:question:


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## atcfisherman

Shaggy,

I would like to know who in the WT society are considered the Greek scholars. Surely you know who they are since you are placing your faith in their translations of the bible. That way I can educate myself on who they are and their credentials.


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## TrueblueTexican

*And when needed*



shaggydog said:


> Gen. 1:1-2--"In [the] beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
> Now the earth proved to be formless and waste and there was darkness upon the surface of [the] watery deep; and God's active force was moving to and fro over the surface of the waters." (New World Translation, emphasis added).
> 
> The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society denies that the Holy Spirit is alive--the third person of the Trinity. Therefore, they have changed the correct translation of
> " . . . the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters," to say " . . . and God's active force was moving to and fro over the surface of the waters."
> 
> What is the difference in meaning of "the Spirit of God was moving" and "God's active force was moving". They both say the same, and they both show possession, yes look at the KJV "the Spirit of God" clearly shows that the spirit is controlled by Him......in both translations. Sorry, I am just not going to respond to someone that thinks he knows more than he does, not in just this forum either. I am sure TBTexican is a nice guy, but you just can't know everything about everything.
> 
> I have nothing against you TBT, but I will espouse my beliefs, just as you do yours.


I will oppose false doctrines -- You can't deny that the Watchtower CULT has changed the meaning of scripture to fit its view - this is a tool of Lucifer and I am sorry you have been so controlled by this CULT that you deny this - May God have Mercy on you, may he cause his light to shine in your confusion,

God has granted all men a mind to reason with, to choose what or who they believe. I am sorry you have been captured by the Author of Lies and will continue to pray for you --


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## KeeperTX

shaggydog said:


> Gen. 1:1-2--"In [the] beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
> Now the earth proved to be formless and waste and there was darkness upon the surface of [the] watery deep; and God's active force was moving to and fro over the surface of the waters." (New World Translation, emphasis added).
> 
> The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society denies that the Holy Spirit is alive--the third person of the Trinity. Therefore, they have changed the correct translation of
> " . . . the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters," to say " . . . and God's active force was moving to and fro over the surface of the waters."
> 
> What is the difference in meaning of "the Spirit of God was moving" and "God's active force was moving". They both say the same, and they both show possession, yes look at the KJV "the Spirit of God" clearly shows that the spirit is controlled by Him......in both translations. Sorry, I am just not going to respond to someone that thinks he knows more than he does, not in just this forum either. I am sure TBTexican is a nice guy, but you just can't know everything about everything.
> 
> I have nothing against you TBT, but I will espouse my beliefs, just as you do yours.


Really Shaggy? You continue to TRY and defend that cult that has changed the holy scriptures? You see nothing wrong with this because if you did, you would have to admit that you've been had all these years. Quit referring to the NWT because that's part of the devil's deception.

The bible is 100% clear that the Holy Spirit is a person and not an active force. We are told not to grieve the Holy Spirit in the bible. Can an active force be grieved? No, but a person can. I pray that you would seek the truth which is found in Jesus Christ whose name is above all names.


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## WillieT

KeeperTX said:


> Really Shaggy? You continue to TRY and defend that cult that has changed the holy scriptures? You see nothing wrong with this because if you did, you would have to admit that you've been had all these years. Quit referring to the NWT because that's part of the devil's deception.
> 
> The bible is 100% clear that the Holy Spirit is a person and not an active force. We are told not to grieve the Holy Spirit in the bible. Can an active force be grieved? No, but a person can. I pray that you would seek the truth which is found in Jesus Christ whose name is above all names.


Sorry you are so misled and confused.


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## atcfisherman

I'm wanting to openly apologize to Shaggy for how I've been too harsh. The Holy Spirit has convicted me that I've said enough and I must move on. If I've offended you shaggy, I apologize. I can only hope that one day you will see the truth and come to a true saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. 


In Christ Alone I Place My Trust


----------



## WillieT

atcfisherman said:


> I'm wanting to openly apologize to Shaggy for how I've been too harsh. The Holy Spirit has convicted me that I've said enough and I must move on. If I've offended you shaggy, I apologize. I can only hope that one day you will see the truth and come to a true saving knowledge of Jesus Christ.
> 
> In Christ Alone I Place My Trust


Thank you for that. We can all be zealous when it comes to God and our worship of Him. There is no doubt in my mind that I have found the truth. I questioned the things I was taught growing up. Even if I were disfellowshipped for some reason, I would still know it is the truth. There is no denying it. My belief gets stronger every day. I wish you nothing but the best.


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## KeeperTX

TrueblueTexican said:


> I will oppose false doctrines -- You can't deny that the Watchtower CULT has changed the meaning of scripture to fit its view - this is a tool of Lucifer and I am sorry you have been so controlled by this CULT that you deny this - May God have Mercy on you, may he cause his light to shine in your confusion,
> 
> God has granted all men a mind to reason with, to choose what or who they believe. I am sorry you have been captured by the Author of Lies and will continue to pray for you --


Amen. Well said.

Praying for you shaggy.


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## KeeperTX

*The truth shall set you free.*

The more I study the NWT, the more I am convinced that it is written with an agenda to deceive many. Here is one very good example:

In the NWT, every time the Greek word "proskuneo" is used in reference to God, it is translated as "worship" (Rev 5:14, 7:11, 11:16, 19:4, Jn 4:20, etc.). Every time "proskuneo" is used in reference to Jesus, it is translated as "obeisance" (Mt 14:33, 28:9, 28:17, Lk 24:52, Heb 1:6, etc.), even though it is the same word in the Greek (see Gr-Engl Interlinear). Especially compare the Greek word "prosekunhsan" used with reference to God in Rev 5:14, 7:11, 11:16, and 19:4 and used with reference to Christ in Mt 14:33, 28:9, and 28:17. What is the reason for this inconsistency? If the NWT was consistent in translating "proskuneo" as "worship", how would the verses above referring to Christ read?


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## jimk

In the OT, "LORD" in small capital letters was used to signify "YHWH" later becoming used as Jehovah. 
These are the words from the "LORD" in Zechariah 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon *me whom they have pierced*.....

Now, more than ever are we in a time of prayer for our country, our leaders and relying on the promise of 2 Chronicles 7:14.


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## TrueblueTexican

*A good summation*

Far better than any I could render





 - What the Watchtower Society is - in spite of Shaggys deception -

"Error and satanic belief, is never offered forth in its naked deformity, lest, being thus exposed, it should at once be detected. Lucifer craftily decks error out in on attractive dress, so as, by its outward form, to make it appear to the those who seek Gods face, more true than truth itself,"


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## TrueblueTexican

*Know when to resist*

The Watchtower CULT is inimical to Christian beliefs, therefore it is an ENEMY of Christ !!! ANTI CHRIST !!!!

Individually deceived members are NOT the enemy - their misguided and brainwashed minds are under the control of Lucifer !!!

Its not just this one CULT --cults abound under the guise of Christianity, and by and large members of CULTS, running parallel to Christian beliefs are usually not bad people, the coercion and secrecy are mind control techniques, the threat of ostracism (or disfellowship) are tools of Lucifer to help control members. Latter Day Saints also use these techniques of control from authoritarian pulpits. Even some denominations use these techniques to control members - its sad, when you realize just how much deception there is and misdirection from Jesus promises.

Study to show yourself approved before your Creator.


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## bigfishtx

TrueblueTexican said:


> The Watchtower CULT is inimical to Christian beliefs, therefore it is an ENEMY of Christ !!! ANTI CHRIST !!!!
> 
> Individually deceived members are NOT the enemy - their misguided and brainwashed minds are under the control of Lucifer !!!
> 
> Its not just this one CULT --cults abound under the guise of Christianity, and by and large members of CULTS, running parallel to Christian beliefs are usually not bad people, the coercion and secrecy are mind control techniques, the threat of ostracism (or disfellowship) are tools of Lucifer to help control members. Latter Day Saints also use these techniques of control from authoritarian pulpits. Even some denominations use these techniques to control members - its sad, when you realize just how much deception there is and misdirection from Jesus promises.
> 
> Study to show yourself approved before your Creator.


I really don't understand the Witness religion enough to judge them one way or the other. I think saying that they are following Satan may be a little harsh though.
I don't understand the bible at times and find a lot of what is says very confusing, and contradictory. I was born and raised in a Christian family, and yet, _I do not really understand the Trinity in the fact that if God and Jesus are one, why did Jesus pray to his father? And how does he sit at the right hand of God the father, if they are one? _
See what I mean?


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## TrueblueTexican

*Just follow the Word*

John 14:7-9 (NKJV)

The Father Revealed - (Jesus speaking to Philip)
_7 â€œIf you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on *you know Him and have seen Him*.â€

8 Philip said to Him, â€œLord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.â€

9 Jesus said to him, â€œHave I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, â€˜Show us the Fatherâ€™?
_
Philip asked your same question - Gods word isn't contradictory - God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit - hard concept to assimilate, and possibly trips many up(so they shoot off and ignore Gods word)

I personally view it as consistent with the model Followers of Christ have - You accept Jesus as Savoir, You are then FILLED with the Nature of God (the holy spirit) - God sits as the head of your Life, Jesus in Gods form lays claim to you and you in him, Gods Spirit dwells in that temple you allowed him to have - God in three persons --

OF COURSE all nonsense if you do not have that relationship --


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## tngbmt

"Doubting Thomas" who, upon seeing the risen Christ, went from skeptic to believer and proclaimed to Jesus, â€œMy Lord and my God!â€ (John 20:28).


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## WillieT

bigfishtx said:


> I really don't understand the Witness religion enough to judge them one way or the other. I think saying that they are following Satan may be a little harsh though.
> I don't understand the bible at times and find a lot of what is says very confusing, and contradictory. I was born and raised in a Christian family, and yet, _I do not really understand the Trinity in the fact that if God and Jesus are one, why did Jesus pray to his father? And how does he sit at the right hand of God the father, if they are one? _
> See what I mean?


You do not understand it because it was totally man made. It is a false teaching. I did not understand it either. I finally found out why after 43 years of wondering. It is no where in the bible. Jesus himself said the Fater is greater than I.


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## tngbmt

i spent 30 minutes today trying to learn hebrew alphabet so i can decipher the bible without having my translation influenced .. i stopped at how to write alef in different formats and what each stroke mean. i'll decipher Genesis 1:1-2 one day .. then i can definitely tell you how God did it.

all you need is common sense to explain ... God?


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## TrueblueTexican

*What you need to understand*



shaggydog said:


> You do not understand it because it was totally man made. It is a false teaching. I did not understand it either. I finally found out why after 43 years of wondering. It is no where in the bible. Jesus himself said the Fater is greater than I.


The Watchtower is ANTI-Christ, it is a CULT, Members are brainwashed and in need of deliverance from Lucifer's lies.

The Watchtower changed Gods word to fit an interpretation of its world view - Gods word did not change its members , its leadership added to Gods Word.


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## WillieT

TrueblueTexican said:


> The Watchtower is ANTI-Christ, it is a CULT, Members are brainwashed and in need of deliverance from Lucifer's lies.
> 
> The Watchtower changed Gods word to fit an interpretation of its world view - Gods word did not change its members , its leadership added to Gods Word.


Baaaahaaaaa. You have no idea what you are talking about. You hav lied several times about us on this thread. The people that know witnesses and hav associated with us are well aware of your lies.


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## KeeperTX

TrueblueTexican said:


> The Watchtower is ANTI-Christ, it is a CULT, Members are brainwashed and in need of deliverance from Lucifer's lies.
> 
> The Watchtower changed Gods word to fit an interpretation of its world view - Gods word did not change its members , its leadership added to Gods Word.


Agree 100%!
I have also noticed that when we give examples of how they've changed the bible, shaggy can't refute them.


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## WillieT

KeeperTX said:


> Agree 100%!
> I have also noticed that when we give examples of how they've changed the bible, shaggy can't refute them.


You and your girlfriend false blue are good at asking questions, but you sure don't want to try to explain the meaning of any scriptures.


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## TrueblueTexican

*Its sad*



shaggydog said:


> You and your girlfriend false blue are good at asking questions, but you sure don't want to try to explain the meaning of any scriptures.


Just how deceived you are -- I will continue to lift you up to JESUS for deliverance -

I can continue to refute your false witness to Gods Word - you can continue to spout the Watchtower CULTS NWT , which has changed the Word of God to fit its view. among many of the falsehoods the Watchtower members have been captured by.

Once again I resist Anti- Christ organizations, not their deceived members.


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## KeeperTX

shaggydog said:


> You and your girlfriend false blue are good at asking questions, but you sure don't want to try to explain the meaning of any scriptures.


We just care enough (to do something) about you and others that might be deceived. Like TBT said, we are not attacking you personally. All we do is present God's word which exposes the lies of the enemy. Praying for your spiritual eyes to be opened.


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## Tortuga

Enough , already !!!!!!!......Geeeezzzzzzzzzzzzz...!!!!.... :headknock

Why don't you guys team up and unload on the Catholics, or Jews, or us Methodists.....OR the muslims, for crisake... Lotsa good targets out there.


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## TrueblueTexican

*I would have dusted my heels some time ago*

Shaggy says --_Baaaahaaaaa. You have no idea what you are talking about. You have lied several times about us on this thread. The people that know witnesses and have associated with us are well aware of your lies._

But I won't let deception stand !!! Nor be called out and slyly threatened --


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## KeeperTX

I started this thread referencing a blog that offers help for people who have left or are thinking about leaving the JW's. The author himself was a part of it for over 20 something years, so he has plenty of experience in dealing with them. 

Shaggy wants to come on this thread and defend the JW's and that is fine. We can have a civilized discussion about it. As far as I see, we are still on topic.


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## TrueblueTexican

*In writing, is the Watchtower Organization Christian?*

The answer to the question is, "No. It is not Christian." Like all non-Christian cults, the Jehovah's Witness organization distorts the essential doctrines of Christianity. *It denies the deity of Christ, His physical resurrection, and [/B]salvation by grace.  This alone makes it non-Christian. To support its erring doctrines, the Watchtower organization (which is the author and teacher of all official Jehovah's Witness theology), has even altered the Bible to make it agree with its changing and non-Christian teachings.

Typical with cults that use the Bible to support its position is a host of interpretive errors:

Taking verses out of their immediate context.
Refusing to read verses in the entire biblical context.
Inserting their theological presuppositions into the text.
Altering the Biblical text to suit their needs.
Latching onto one verse to interpret a host of others.
Changing the meanings of words.
Proclaiming some passages to be figurative when they contradict their doctrines.
Adding to the Word of God.
Additionally, the Jehovah's Witness organization requires of its members regular weekly attendance at their "Bible Study" meetings where they are repeatedly indoctrinated with anti-Christian teachings. This is done by reading the Watchtower magazine, following along with what it says, reading the questions it asks, and reciting the answers it gives. In other words, the Watchtower Organization carefully trains its members to let the Organization do their thinking for them.

The Witnesses are told they will be persecuted when they go door to door teaching their doctrines. They are further "indoctrinated" that this is simply the enemy fighting against God's organization because they are in "the truth." So, when anyone disagrees with them, they are programmed to reflect on what the Watchtower has told them. They then feel confirmed in being in God's true organization on earth (like all cults claim). They are strongly encouraged to have friends and acquaintances that are only Watchtower converts, thereby keeping outside examination to a minimum. They are told to shun those who leave the Watchtower, for in this way there is no way to see why someone has left and no way to find out that they are in error from those who have found the truth in Christ. They are conditioned to shy away from any real Biblically knowledgeable person. This is a frequent occurrence on the Internet where the Jehovah's Witnesses operate quite extensively. Critical Bible based examination of their doctrines is not encouraged by the Watchtower Organization.

The Watchtowers Witnesses consider themselves to be Christians because they believe they are serving the true and living God. Like many cults, they think they are the only true church on earth. Yet, they deny the Trinity, the deity of Christ, the personhood of the Holy Spirit, Jesus' physical resurrection, and salvation by grace through faith.

The Watchtowers Witnesses are discouraged from looking into Witness history or old Watchtower literature which is replete with contradictions, altered doctrines, and false prophecies. Instead, they are indoctrinated repeatedly against basic Christian doctrines (Trinity, deity of Christ, etc.) and into the notion that they alone are the true servants of God and that all others are either in "Christendom" or simply unbelievers.

Primarily, the Watchtowers Witness organization is a mind-control organization that uses its people to pass out literature and send in "donations" to the headquarters in Brooklyn, New York.

"Thus the Bible is an organizational book and belongs to the Christian congregation as an organization, not to individuals, regardless of how sincerely they may believe that they can interpret the Bible."

The Watchtower organization of the Jehovah's Witnesses is a non-Christian organization that uses its people to promulgate false doctrines, and collects "contributions" for distribution of a multitudinous amount of literature, and expand its grip into the lives of its members and their families.

It is a non-Christian cult.

Christians who challenge Lucifer only have to say get away from me Lucifer in Jesus name - he HAS to leave. The same can be said for challenging the Watchtower Cult - but be PREPARED to do real SPIRITUAL BATTLE, you will be bombarded with attacks, not only from the Watchtower, but apologists for them. I would not encourage anyone to battle the powers of Hades without first directly asking for Jesus help in doing so -

To "casual" Christians (if there is such a thing) this all may sound like confrontation, not "turning the other cheek" - and in a sense it is, direct confrontation with the Power of Hell, not so with the person who is controlled by Hell. Watchtower devotees are BRAINWASHED - can't state that enough.

It is incumbent on Followers of Christ that we understand we can open doors that allow Lucifer's entry into our lives. Many Christians have befriended Watchtower Cult members in the hope of "saving" them to true Christianity only to find after some time, that the influence of the Watchtower Cult is so strong a tie on the friendship that the Christians mind can also be deceived. The Watchtowers programming on its cult members, the grounding in the New Word Translation and those evil strongholds are embedded into them so much that it is near impossible to see any victory. The evil spirits quietly and subtly working within Watchtower cult members do not show their true colors until after a long and lengthy friendship. So strong is the Watchtower influence that it has destroyed many families, Christians have been "captured" in denial and allowed open doors for demonic activity and brainwashing which has steadily destroyed their mind from the true Christian faith. If you are trying to bring light to someone so captured by Watchtower Cultists, you will find that, on your own, you cannot reason with them. Pray for them, ask Jesus to change their minds. One trick that Lucifer uses is that many individual Watchtower cultists are very nice people - they have a kindly appeal. This is the trap of the enemy to get a person into a "Kingdom Hall" surrounds and under their influence.

Almost to a man or woman this winsome appeal to get you to "visit" a Kingdom Hall should always be rejected. I would no more enter a stronghold of Lucifer that I would want to venture into his domain - be WARNED and Prepared.

I apologize to folks who don't think confrontation belongs in Food For the Soul - perhaps its TIME for Gods Church to start CONFRONTING millions of people sitting in US Church pews who one day will hear God say - Go away from me I never knew you !!!

If you wish to continue to learn how to deal with US cults I highly recommend http://www.4witness.org/home/about-us/*


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## atcfisherman

Great website with a lot of true stories of people being set free by knowing the truth of Jesus Christ. 



In Christ Alone I Place My Trust


----------



## WillieT

I am going to respond to a few things on here.

Tortuga, I certainly appreciate your understanding. You have had or still have contact with a witness, and do not want to draw you into this but would like to ask a couple of questions. Has your associate EVER demonstrated any cult like qualities, or ANY qualities other that those of a God fearing, Christian person? You stated you attended a gathering that I know had many witnesses there. Did you see any of the things about them that would indicate that they were cultlike, or did they appear to be God fearing, Christian individuals? I have no idea if alcohol were served or not, but did you see ANYBODY that look like they had too much to drink, and make a fool or themselves, like happens at so many receptions or gatherings? If you choose not to answer I certainly understand.

Now to address some other issues. We were compared to the Davidians, which is stupid, and shows that the one posting has no clue about the witnesses. Here is the counsel we receive from our governing body on guns.

Some people desperately seek security by arming themselves with guns. Christians, though, take seriously the words of Jesus, who said: â€œThose who take the sword will perish by the sword.â€ (Matthew 26:52) Godâ€™s people have â€˜beaten their swords into plowsharesâ€™ and do not buy guns to protect themselves from robbery or assault.â€”Micah 4:3.

The stand that Christians take in rejecting magic and weapons as tools of protection may seem foolish in the eyes of those who do not know God. The Bible, however, assures us: â€œHe that is trusting in Jehovah will be protected.â€ (Proverbs 29:25) While Jehovah protects his people as a whole, he does not intervene in every case to shield his servants from robbery. Job was outstandingly faithful, yet God allowed marauders to plunder Jobâ€™s livestock, with loss of life to the attendants. (Job 1:14, 15, 17) God also permitted the apostle Paul to experience â€œdangers from highwaymen.â€ (2Â Corinthians 11:26) Nonetheless, God teaches his servants to live by principles that reduce the risk of robbery. He also equips them with knowledge that helps them to react to robbery attempts in ways that will reduce the likelihood of injury.

Notice the scriptural basis for the counsel above.

I will address our Bible in another post.


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## WillieT

Our Bible

You can access our Bible at jw.org. Go to Appendix A1-A5. It will give you the Principles of Bible Translation, Features of This Revision, How the Bible Came to Us, The Divine Name in the Hebrew Scriptures, The Divine Name in the Christian Greek Scriptures. After the Appendix you can look at the page Languages and Dialects Containing the Divine Name in the Main Text of the Christian Greek Scriptures.

Also when you go to Bibles on our website, please note that there are 3 other translations of the Bible that are available, The American Standard Version, The Bible in Living English, and The King James Version.

The first Bible we published was in 1961, before that we used whatever copy of the Bible we chose to use. The Appendixes in our bible explains the reason for our translation. IT CERTAINLY WAS NOT TO CHANGE THE MEANING OR CONTEXT OF GOD'S WORD. 

Realize that ALL translations of the bible were done by men, and the wording is different in all of them. I am going to quote a couple of scriptures from several different translations. I have a Parallel Bible that I have taken pictures of that I will try to post in my next post that shows the scriptures that I will cite from other translations. My purpose in this is twofold. Not only are all of the translations, worded differently, the also disprove some of the false teachings, such as the Trinity.

American Standard Version (ASV)
The Bible in Living English (BLE)
King James Version (KJV)

Genesis 1:2 2 And the earth was waste and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep: and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters (ASV)

2 the earth was a blank chaos, and there was darkness over the surface of the deep; and Godâ€™s Spirit was hovering over the surface of the waters. (BLE)

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. (KJV)

2 Now the earth was formless and desolate,* and there was darkness upon the surface of the watery deep,* and Godâ€™s active force* was moving about over the surface of the waters. (NWT)

Active force and Spirit are exactly the same. In every translation whether it says the Spirit of God, God's Spirit, or God's active force, the translations all show possession, which in turn is clear evidence that God controls the Spirit, or active force. If you do not understand possession, go back and take some refresher courses in elementary school.

Now I would like to look at Ps: 118:27 and I am only going to quote the first part of the verse.

27 Jehovah is God, and he hath given us light (ASV)

27** Jehovah is Deity and has given us light. (BLE)

27 God is the LORD, which hath shewed us light (KJV)

27 Jehovah is God; He gives us light (NWT)

It is the substitution of titles, where God's personal name Jehovah, should be, that has created confusion of whom the Bible is talking, and because of that confusion, man created the false teaching of the trinity. 

Note that in each translation, it states God is, or Jehovah is. This shows only ONE person to be God, not three. The scriptures also talk about God demanding EXCLUSIVE devotion. You cannot give exclusive devotion to three entities.

I will try to post pictures of the other four translations of the Parallel Bible that are across the page side by side. It is really an interesting publication that shows translations, side by side.


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## WillieT

Parallel Bible


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## WillieT

The Parallel Bible gives you 4 more translations of the verses in the previous post. Men promote lies out of fear or ignorance, or a little or a lot of both.


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## WillieT

They are told to shun those who leave the Watchtower, for in this way there is no way to see why someone has left and no way to find out that they are in error from those who have found the truth in Christ. They are conditioned to shy away from any real Biblically knowledgeable person. This is a frequent occurrence on the Internet where the Jehovah's Witnesses operate quite extensively. Critical Bible based examination of their doctrines is not encouraged by the Watchtower Organization. This is a quote from someone on here.

More lies. If someone has left the truth, the door is always open for them to return, as it is for disfellowshipped ones. We do not shun anyone. If someone is disfellowshipped, we do not associate with them. This is in line with scriptural counsel to"keep the congregation clean". You do not see this in other organized religions which is one of the reasons you see so much hypocrisy in those religions. Another reason they allow this is to keep the money coming in.

Shy away from people with knowledge of the bible? Really? Do you think we know who is behind the door when we knock. We really don't have many smart people in the truth, only many lawyers, doctors, and yes, clergymen from every mainstream denomination found on the earth. There are over 8,000,000 million witnesses earthwide. This group is made up of people of "all the nations". We have people of every color, "God is not partial", race, and walk of life. Postmen and women, firemen, doctors, lawyers, laborers, former clergymen, former law enforcement officers, singers, the list goes on and on. To say we avoid anyone is stated in total ignorance. God wants all to be saved, who are we to judge. EVERYONE has free will and will make their own decisions. We want them to have the opportunity to make the right decision, no matter who they are.


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## Tortuga

*This ol' dog (me) knows where he belongs......LOL..*

:rotfl:


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## WillieT

The Watchtowers Witnesses are discouraged from looking into Witness history or old Watchtower literature which is replete with contradictions, altered doctrines, and false prophecies.

Another lie. We have libraries that contain all printed material, back to the late 1800's. We are encouraged to learn where we came from. There has never been a date set as to the time of the end by the witness, as falsely claimed in this thread.

Have there been changes in understanding on certain scriptures. Yes there has. That too is scriptural, "the light gets brighter". The organization is totally transparent whenever there is a change in understanding.

My parting words on this thread. A Cult? Laughable. Jesus is our salvation, and we use him as our role model, know that as imperfect people we cannot come close to the mark that he left for us. It is our determination to learn God's Word, and to bring our lives in harmony with the commandments and principles set out in the bible. If that describes a cult, then count me in. We are probably the most peaceable and God fearing people on the planet. 

Isaiah 60: 22 22â€¯The little one will become a thousand
And the small one a mighty nation.
I myself, Jehovah, will speed it up in its own time.â€
This prophecy is being fulfilled right now with over 8,000,000 publishers worldwide.

I have witnessed the love of the brotherhood in many ways. I can go anywhere in the world and contact any congregation and have numerous invitations to have a place to stay and meals, even though they do not know me and have never heard my name. The love is unmatched anywhere. John 13:35 . 35â€¯By this all will know that you are my disciplesâ€”if you have love among yourselves.

The love shown between brothers is unmatched anywhere.

We try as imperfect people to show the love to all, mainly Jehovah God, with our whole heart, soul, and mind, but also to our neighbors. 

Matthew 22: 34-39 34â€¯After the Pharisees heard that he had silenced the Sadducees, they came together in one group. 35â€¯And one of them, versed in the Law, tested him by asking: 36â€¯â€œTeacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?â€ 37â€¯He said to him: â€œâ€˜You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind.â€™ 38â€¯This is the greatest and first commandment. 39â€¯The second, like it, is this: â€˜You must love your neighbor as yourself.â€™ 40â€¯On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.â€

The love for fellow man, as well as the commission given at Matthew 28: 19,20 . 19â€¯Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20â€¯teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things,â€ is why we preach the Good News of the Kingdom.

This is my last word on this thread.


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## atcfisherman

https://www.truelife.org/videos/are-jehovah-s-witnesses-right

In Christ Alone I Place My Trust


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## KeeperTX

*I encourage all to read the NWT*

and compare it to the bible:

In the NWT, every time the Greek word "proskuneo" is used in reference to God, it is translated as "worship" (Rev 5:14, 7:11, 11:16, 19:4, Jn 4:20, etc.). Every time "proskuneo" is used in reference to Jesus, it is translated as "obeisance" (Mt 14:33, 28:9, 28:17, Lk 24:52, Heb 1:6, etc.), even though it is the same word in the Greek (see Gr-Engl Interlinear). Especially compare the Greek word "prosekunhsan" used with reference to God in Rev 5:14, 7:11, 11:16, and 19:4 and used with reference to Christ in Mt 14:33, 28:9, and 28:17. What is the reason for this inconsistency? If the NWT was consistent in translating "proskuneo" as "worship", how would the verses above referring to Christ read?


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## KeeperTX

*It is ok to worship Jesus - the name above all names.*

*John 1:3*
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

*Colossians 1:16-17*
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

*Isaiah 44:24*
24 Thus saith the Lord, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the Lord that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

In the JW version of the Bible, the New World Translation, these pasages are not very different. Clearly, Jehovah is said to have created the universe by Himself, with His own hands. How can Jehovah say He created everything all by Himself--without any help--if, according to JW doctrine, God first created Jesus, and then used Jesus to create everything else. If Jesus is not Jehovah, then there is a glaring contradiction in Scripture.


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## TrueblueTexican

*There lies the difference*



shaggydog said:


> Our Bible
> 
> You can access our Bible at jw.org. Go to Appendix A1-A5. It will give you the Principles of Bible Translation, Features of This Revision, How the Bible Came to Us, The Divine Name in the Hebrew Scriptures, The Divine Name in the Christian Greek Scriptures. After the Appendix you can look at the page Languages and Dialects Containing the Divine Name in the Main Text of the Christian Greek Scriptures.
> 
> Also when you go to Bibles on our website, please note that there are 3 other translations of the Bible that are available, The American Standard Version, The Bible in Living English, and The King James Version.
> 
> The first Bible we published was in 1961, before that we used whatever copy of the Bible we chose to use. The Appendixes in our bible explains the reason for our translation. IT CERTAINLY WAS NOT TO CHANGE THE MEANING OR CONTEXT OF GOD'S WORD.
> 
> Realize that ALL translations of the bible were done by men, and the wording is different in all of them. I am going to quote a couple of scriptures from several different translations. I have a Parallel Bible that I have taken pictures of that I will try to post in my next post that shows the scriptures that I will cite from other translations. My purpose in this is twofold. Not only are all of the translations, worded differently, the also disprove some of the false teachings, such as the Trinity.
> 
> American Standard Version (ASV)
> The Bible in Living English (BLE)
> King James Version (KJV)
> 
> Genesis 1:2 2 And the earth was waste and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep: and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters (ASV)
> 
> 2 the earth was a blank chaos, and there was darkness over the surface of the deep; and Godâ€™s Spirit was hovering over the surface of the waters. (BLE)
> 
> 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. (KJV)
> 
> 2 Now the earth was formless and desolate,* and there was darkness upon the surface of the watery deep,* and Godâ€™s active force* was moving about over the surface of the waters. (NWT)
> 
> Active force and Spirit are exactly the same. In every translation whether it says the Spirit of God, God's Spirit, or God's active force, the translations all show possession, which in turn is clear evidence that God controls the Spirit, or active force. If you do not understand possession, go back and take some refresher courses in elementary school.
> 
> Now I would like to look at Ps: 118:27 and I am only going to quote the first part of the verse.
> 
> 27 Jehovah is God, and he hath given us light (ASV)
> 
> 27** Jehovah is Deity and has given us light. (BLE)
> 
> 27 God is the LORD, which hath shewed us light (KJV)
> 
> 27 Jehovah is God; He gives us light (NWT)
> 
> It is the substitution of titles, where God's personal name Jehovah, should be, that has created confusion of whom the Bible is talking, and because of that confusion, man created the false teaching of the trinity.
> 
> Note that in each translation, it states God is, or Jehovah is. This shows only ONE person to be God, not three. The scriptures also talk about God demanding EXCLUSIVE devotion. You cannot give exclusive devotion to three entities.
> 
> I will try to post pictures of the other four translations of the Parallel Bible that are across the page side by side. It is really an interesting publication that shows translations, side by side.


Our Word Vs Gods inspired Word - quite a difference and quite different authors

The Author of Lies (OUR word) vanity from the author, banished for his vanity

OR the CREATOR ,*his* WORD


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