# FYI....CKW Tutorial



## Comedie (Nov 1, 2008)

I had the Guild put the published CKW article up on their web site: 
http://www.rodguild.com/howtos/CKW_WRAP.pdf


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## CoastalBent (Aug 3, 2006)

Very cool!!


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## patfatdaddy (May 29, 2004)

Thanks Comedie. We discussed this in our Texas Rod Builders meeting today. I really appreciate the tutorial.
Pat


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## Raymond Adams (Apr 17, 2008)

The "C" in CKW is just WRONG! This technique was originally developed by Jim Ripp and Comedie ripped it off!

Crawl back into your hole Dave.


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## Raymond Adams (Apr 17, 2008)

I was willing to let Dave have his ego stroked on the forums but after hearing about the article in the Journal I had to call the kettle black.


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## patfatdaddy (May 29, 2004)

Thanks for the info Ray. Comedie doesn't seem quite right.
Pat


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## Comedie (Nov 1, 2008)

Bull,,, I have history going back over 2 years. Heck, I was talking with Throop on the mono stuff outside the 1st West Coast Show having a smoke. And yeah, I even had a 'mono moire' wrap with me at the time.

And while I'm sure it goes back a bit further, I happen to still have an e-mail going back to 1/9/08 on exactly this. 

Oh,,, and I know of at least a couple other people who claimed to have seen it in playing as well. And you know something? No one else I saw stepped up to the plate and worked it thru to be able to get it to execution. 

You wanna go back to the days of everyone sitting on their little secrets, and then when someone else trips over the same stuff, *****es and moans. Well, you go right on ahead. I remember some **** like that over weaving not that long ago too.


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## Raymond Adams (Apr 17, 2008)

Yeah Dave, 
You do have a history but if I were you I wouldn't brag about it! LOL


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## Goags (May 28, 2004)

Alright, I'm gonna get to the bottom of this...I'm gonna contact Bill Colby...can someone PM me his email addy? LOL! As my daddy would say, "take it outside, boys".


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## Comedie (Nov 1, 2008)

Raymond Adams said:


> Yeah Dave,
> You do have a history but if I were you I wouldn't brag about it! LOL


Yeah right,,,, heard about him a year and a week after my 1/9/08 note. And that 1/9/08 note said: 
_Ain't the full test of the thought, but I had an aborted tiger wrap bottom wrap in red and silver. Had some clear 8lb mono (which looked sorta close to the D I had wrapped it in) and counter wrapped it. It does yield a moire pattern, without even wrapping 2 and dropping 1 thread! I just doused it with water, rather than finishing it all up. Dropping a thread will certainly make it easier, since even the water had a little trouble evenly penetrating the full wrap._

_Opens up a few thoughts for me now. I picked up some blue mylar today. Now I bet that wrapping flourocarbon for both top and bottom wraps yields something like shimmering water. That's my next test. That works and I think I found a tiger different enough for me to go for._​


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## Comedie (Nov 1, 2008)

Goags said:


> Alright, I'm gonna get to the bottom of this...I'm gonna contact Bill Colby...can someone PM me his email addy? LOL! As my daddy would say, "take it outside, boys".


Sounds like you know. Absolutely,,, rotflol!


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## patfatdaddy (May 29, 2004)

Comedie
You ain't got no rep. Raymond and Jerry have rep. You are mostly mouth.
Pat


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## Goags (May 28, 2004)

Pat, I absolutely don't know anything about this. I will say in "real world" research, the race is to get published first. Has Jim Rippe ever posted pics of his version? Just wondering, w/ no dog in the fight.
Jerry


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## Comedie (Nov 1, 2008)

Raymond Adams said:


> The "C" in CKW is just WRONG! This technique was originally developed by Jim Ripp and Comedie ripped it off!
> 
> Crawl back into your hole Dave.


Not only were you obviously breaking forum rules, you have also clearly and knowingly made a libelous attack. 
Oh yeah, and beyond that, I have proof of precedence.


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## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

Keep it civil guys or drop it, either or.

Thanks.

TH


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## venturarodandlure (Feb 14, 2009)

Good tutorial Dave. Don't care about politics or who invented what.


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## Steve Gardner (Mar 23, 2008)

*Comedit;* 
I don't know who you are. But one thing I do know; is that I have been reading Mr. Adams posts, comments, tutorials, articles and forum for the last few years. 
He has always posted the facts, held himself to a high standard of professionalism, and has been a man of integrity.
He is also man enough to use his real name when calling a spade a spade.
I'll take his word any day. 
Like the other man said "he has a rep" and it is spotless.
Whether a person has it printed first or not does not make up for stealing another's idea and claiming credit for it.


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## Comedie (Nov 1, 2008)

Steve Gardner said:


> *Comedit;*
> I don't know who you are. But one thing I do know; is that I have been reading Mr. Adams posts, comments, tutorials, articles and forum for the last few years.
> He has always posted the facts, held himself to a high standard of professionalism, and has been a man of integrity.
> He is also man enough to use his real name when calling a spade a spade.
> ...


Well the fact that neither of you managed to see that a CKW is clearly described in the first couple sentences in 1/08 tells me you guys aren't interested in truth or reason. You are playing partisan mudslinging, pure and simple. 
I gave a head's up to clarify intent, as advised. Let's see about putting veracity to the test.


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## Raymond Adams (Apr 17, 2008)

The Tiger Wrap & Holo Wrap articles by Scott Throop & Bill Colby were published in April 2007.

You failed to mention the many phone calls you made shortly after that & WHO told you what.

The principles behind the kaleidascope wrap had already been defined by others.

I do commend you for putting the tutorial together but calling the process your own is another matter.


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## Comedie (Nov 1, 2008)

Raymond Adams said:


> The Tiger Wrap & Holo Wrap articles by Scott Throop & Bill Colby were published in April 2007.
> 
> You failed to mention the many phone calls you made shortly after that & WHO told you what.
> 
> ...


Obviously you haven't read it. Credit is given where it turned on my lightbulb. 
And just as obviously, you miss that there is a different optical principle involved, as well as a different process.

Not to mention you are now attempting to sidestep your prior libelous claims with unrelated fluff. Your response does however prove your purposeful intent to have made them.


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## Steve Gardner (Mar 23, 2008)

Comedit;
I don't see where you are saying he is side stepping anything. From what I read Mr. Adams commends you for putting together a tutorial, which is the only credit you deserve. 
He seems to be right on point.
You should be thanking him!

On a different note just because you type a date on a forum about a supposed email doesn't prove anything except that you can type. Even if you had posted a real email; any six your old can cut and paste the message to say what they want, then put it on a forum.

But on your behalf if I get time, I may do a little research tomorrow and see what I can find out.


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## fishhardtx (Jan 23, 2010)

*Warning*

Comedie, Be very careful. There are a few TRB members and friends that think they own the rod building forum and can be very RUDE (PatFatDaddy)! Some of them make it seem as though they are doing good deeds by having fundraisers (Rods for Soldiers), but at the same time they can make comments about how you're "all mouth". I posted some stuff about a Mud Hole Rod Building class I took a few weeks ago and it was amazing to see how soon they attacked... It wasn't long. I really enjoy reading the other forums, but does anyone know of another rod building web-site that's not so biased (TRB). Anyway, to me it doesn't matter who came up with the halo wrap, tiger wrap or whatever, but thanks for sharing. :bounce:


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## CoastalBent (Aug 3, 2006)

fishhardtx said:


> Comedie, Be very careful. There are a few TRB members and friends that think they own the rod building forum and can be very RUDE (PatFatDaddy)! Some of them make it seem as though they are doing good deeds by having fundraisers (Rods for Soldiers), but at the same time they can make comments about how you're "all mouth". I posted some stuff about a Mud Hole Rod Building class I took a few weeks ago and it was amazing to see how soon they attacked... It wasn't long. I really enjoy reading the other forums, but does anyone know of another rod building web-site that's not so biased (TRB). Anyway, to me it doesn't matter who came up with the halo wrap, tiger wrap or whatever, but thanks for sharing. :bounce:


Boooo.... can't we just let this thread die in peace? Fishhard, yer talkin pretty loud for a new guy. There's plenty of other rod building forums out there, so feel free to go someplace where you feel more comfortable.


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## fishhardtx (Jan 23, 2010)

*I thought we were friends*

:slimer:CoastalBent, like I said in my post... so are you a TRB member or just a friend? I thought we were friends since you just PM'd me the price of your rods.


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## CoastalBent (Aug 3, 2006)

I'm not gonna get in a trash talk here... I am a member of TRB, and your post was a hijack just to talk smack. If you have a problem with a specific member, you should take it up with them and not talk down on the club as a whole. TRB doesn't own this forum, but we do have our own forum:

http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?forumID=123062

Feel free to come by and see what we're about before you start talking trash. You're not going to find many friends around here with posts like that. As for the original topic of the thread, I have no opinion, so I won't be commenting any further here.


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## fishhardtx (Jan 23, 2010)

Im not talking trash. Im just telling it like it is..


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## Steve Gardner (Mar 23, 2008)

fishhardtx;
I'm not a member of TRB. Sorry if my post offended you. I made them based on the outstanding character of Mr. Adams and the fact that he is very reserved in any negative comments he would make towards another unless he had the facts. And even then in most cases he would keep to himself about it. 

But when someone plagiarizes other's works then claims credit for that work, something should be said. Even if at times it is offensive. 

Mr. Adams knew there would be heat for pointing out what he also knew would be a controversial subject.
Yet he still chose to stand up.
It has nothing to do with friendship or the lack thereof; it's about doing the right thing.


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## patfatdaddy (May 29, 2004)

fishhardtx said:


> Comedie, Be very careful. There are a few TRB members and friends that think they own the rod building forum and can be very RUDE (PatFatDaddy)! Some of them make it seem as though they are doing good deeds by having fundraisers (Rods for Soldiers), but at the same time they can make comments about how you're "all mouth". I posted some stuff about a Mud Hole Rod Building class I took a few weeks ago and it was amazing to see how soon they attacked... It wasn't long. I really enjoy reading the other forums, but does anyone know of another rod building web-site that's not so biased (TRB). Anyway, to me it doesn't matter who came up with the halo wrap, tiger wrap or whatever, but thanks for sharing. :bounce:


In your post about the Mudhole class the first response was from a TRB member that asked how many was there and that he thought it was great. Further down in the post the bad lighting at the TRB class. That was explained. Then there was a post about FTU not having everything you need. That was explained. Then you made the statement "You get what you pay for" inferring that because our class was free we probably weren't very good. That was explained. No one on this post or the other post has tried to put anyone down including Comedie. However if Comedie got this idea from someone else he should have given that person credit. He may very well have improved on the technique and probably did, he wrote an excellent tutorial that is easy to understand and I appreciate that. I have stated this before. 
No one has a made a personal attack on you so please don't be attacking anyone else. We are having another rodbuilding class at FTU on March 13th, please come and check us out. If you don't like it we will give you your money back
Thanks
Pat


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## ellisredfish (Jul 5, 2005)

Man, I surely am glad that I took up fly tying. By the way, all of the flies that I tie are copies of someone else's work.


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## Terry G. (Jul 17, 2006)

hahah, i like that !, RE="its a FREE CLASS but if ya dont like it ya gets your MONEY BACK"

hahah, sorry, first good funny today.


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## fishhardtx (Jan 23, 2010)

*LOL!*

:bounce:Good point Ellis. Maybe I need to take up fly fishing.


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## REP (Feb 2, 2010)

I know bloody well not to post to this thread, but what the heck, I can sink as low as anyone, so here goes - - - 

First, unfortunately, Ray has a very personal "attitude" about just about anything Dave does - in fact about Dave, period. You need to put his comments here in that context.

Second, Dave has simply put up a link to an article or tutorial he wrote about a wrapping technique. He's been asked by a lot of folks to do just that over the past year, after they saw his work. "Rush to publish"? Not hardly - I know personally that he's procrastinated on this one for over a year.

Third, based on a lot of the comments here, I suppose no one has the right to publish anything that builds on the previous work of others. I guess Ray considers himself the arbiter of what is "original" work. To follow that a bit further, you could say that Clemens' books "ripped off" all the work that he built on. Put another way, I guess no one who uses a published wrap or weave pattern from someone else's book can claim that the rod he puts it on is a "custom rod". In fact there's a group of self-proclaimed elite builders who claim that anyone who does not use a totally new material or technique is not truly a custom builder (I've got something for them, though - it sets off Geiger counters and glows in the dark and makes some nice grips for night fishing. Is that unique enough for ya? Trouble is, you can't take it on an airplane so you can't use it for pack rods).

And last, I wonder how many of the posters above ACTUALLY READ THE TUTORIAL - rather than just jumping on Dave. Somewhere in here, the original idea got lost, I think.

So how 'bout if we just rewind this to what it was really meant to be - a simple invitation to read about a technique that can be used to wrap a rod. Don't like it? Don't use it.

Uncle Russ
Calico Creek Rods


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## Raymond Adams (Apr 17, 2008)

Yes, I have a problem with Dave. I have also apologized to this Forum and it's viewers for voicing that. (see my earlier thread "for the record")

Yes I have read the article and I'll even quote it.

_"I know that various folks have experimented with, or hypothesized upon, using mono over a Tiger base the last few years. But, have haven't actually seen it implemented in a robust way that you could depend upon."_

These "folks" just didn't post photos on Forums!

How someone can drill via email & phone calls these "various folks" about their efforts
to the point that they block his email address and refuse to take his calls then put his NAME to it and not credit those "folks" in writing except Greg Vella is beyond me. However, I don't understand how suppliers can talk smack about a product they don't carry or steal a product developed by a small guy (Scott Throop's grips) or a group filing cheap lies in court either.

What ever happened to ethics & integrity?

For the record, Dale Clemens repeatedly gave credit both by name and by association to those that came up with methods, wraps, etc.. in all 3 of his books and VHS tapes.


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## RJH (Dec 24, 2008)

Comedie + REP = bad news. This is not the first forum where they have paired up to take shots at people. Their own forum is a ghost town most days. I have not seen anyone here asking Comedie for information or tutorials on "his" wrap. It would seem to me that his point in putting up that link back to his club's website was to try and get some traffic for what amounts to a club in its final death throes. 

These people have poisoned their own website and forum.......if you value the 2Cool rod building site here, you won't let them poison this one. Every body has a run in or disagreement from time to time but this pair brings trouble with them where ever they go.


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## venturarodandlure (Feb 14, 2009)

What's bad is political fighting in rodbuilding. It makes potential customers who read this stuff think "Why would I buy a rod from any of these teenage girls"..
This he said she said bs is bad for all of us. 
Why blast the guild and insist they are a "ghost town" or Dave's "club" unless you have your own agenda against them.
Anyway's I probably shouldn't get involved as I may lose potential customers as well for even commenting on something as ridiculous as this. 
Gonna go back to building rods now as best I can and hope the customers are happy with them.


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## RJH (Dec 24, 2008)

If I had an agenda then you would see me running around the internet forums badmouthing them. I have not done that.

On the other hand, both Comedie and REP have a reputation and record for using forums for slamming certain individuals or enterprises they have a personal dislike for. Their record precedes them and is there for all to see.

They are ambassdours for their own organzation and one of them is even some sort of official director or something. They ruined their own website with their hatred and it would be a shame if they are allowed to ruin this one.


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## Terrynj (Jun 27, 2006)

I agree totally that we don't want threads like this here on 2cool. We enjoy the type of posters and rodbuilding/sharing we get here. This thread was started with the intent of sharing and it completely degenerated into petty back stabbing and accusations. If you have a grip with someone this ain't the forum to voice it. Find somewhere else that doesn't mind the mud slinging.
just my 2 cents.....

Terry


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## xxxxxQTRODS (Nov 17, 2009)

*tired of this *****

i,m with you terry. it seem when something like this is going on it is one person in the center. i wonder who died and made him rod god. in texas after something like this goes on we still say "take it out side". you know when you are sitting at a computer in california and the other guy is in houston or where ever it is hard to tell them to take it out side. it is easy to through punchs with a key pad when you are not going to feel any pain from your actions.................bennie

by the way have ya'll had any lately!!!!!!!!!


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## Raymond Adams (Apr 17, 2008)

OK, I expected to get beat up and with the way I approached the subject and I guess I deserved it. I guess apologies dont carry much weight with some either. 

Oh well.

My concience is clean and I have learned a valuable lesson.


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## patfatdaddy (May 29, 2004)

Raymond is one of my heroes and I admire his work and his dedication to the rodbuilding community. I also appreciate the tutorial that was posted by Comedie. I was having a really hard time to get the Tiger wrap to work out for me. Of couirse this is not the true Tiger wrap but it is something that I can use. In short "Thank you Comedie" but please give credit where credit is due.
Thanks to both of you.
Pat


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## Comedie (Nov 1, 2008)

patfatdaddy said:


> .....In short "Thank you Comedie" but please give credit where credit is due.
> Pat


Oh I did. Scott Throop and Greg Vella by name. If you don't wish to believe it, that's fine. Now realize you and a bunch of folks are operating on hearsay, and I think puppet strings are being pulled by some with axes to grind too. 
Which is darkly humorous in a way, because you know what they hate the most? That I am technically competent, see the flaws in things, reason out problems, and then endeavor to fix them. You and anyone who has been around rod building for awhile knows how egotistical and/or lead-around-on-a-leash some of the players are. So I'm sure you can imagine what happens.


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## Raymond Adams (Apr 17, 2008)

The only conspiracy here is the one continually fostered by your own mind.

Once again you side stepped the point and my quote from your article.

Fact is, that technique was handed to you by those you now talk smack about every chance you get.


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## Comedie (Nov 1, 2008)

Raymond Adams said:


> The only conspiracy here is the one continually fostered by your own mind.
> 
> Once again you side stepped the point and my quote from your article.
> 
> Fact is, that technique was handed to you by those you now talk smack about every chance you get.


No,,, what you have is what what you were told. That's it. 
And as you are not a direct party, I'd say your use of the word 'conspiracy' is as good as any. In fact, you prove the point. 
I however have documentation, a track, and even original experiment pieces sitting around. And it verifiably goes a year back further than the basis of your libelous and malicious stmts.


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## Terry G. (Jul 17, 2006)

some body please let the thing DIE!.


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## Terrynj (Jun 27, 2006)

Come on guys...take it off campus.....


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## REP (Feb 2, 2010)

RJH said:


> Comedie + REP = bad news. This is not the first forum where they have paired up to take shots at people. Their own forum is a ghost town most days. I have not seen anyone here asking Comedie for information or tutorials on "his" wrap. It would seem to me that his point in putting up that link back to his club's website was to try and get some traffic for what amounts to a club in its final death throes.
> 
> These people have poisoned their own website and forum.......if you value the 2Cool rod building site here, you won't let them poison this one. Every body has a run in or disagreement from time to time but this pair brings trouble with them where ever they go.


Ah, the infamous RJH - hey, did you ever get reinstated after the personal attacks on the BD BBS? And still hammering the Guild and anything and anyone who has anything to do with it, I see. Well, we all know where that comes from - - - no surprise there.

As I remember, at the beginning of this thread, Ray attacked Dave. All I did was to try to get it back to center, ie., from a personal attack by Ray back to a discussion of Dave's technique and tutorial. As for requests, I don't know if anyone here asked for it (I don't read every word of every post), but others certainly have that I know of (ie., not necessarily on a BBS).

Now that RJH has joined in there's no point in this anymore and the original intent was surely been lost a long time ago. So yeah, guys, you're right - let it die.

Uncle Russ
Calico Creek Rods


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## Goags (May 28, 2004)

It's all over, Uncle Russ... give it a rest, for all our sakes.


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## Fishtoys (Jul 4, 2007)

*Let it go*

YA Let it go. Its a great wrap regardless.


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