# Regarding my no shooting 223



## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Well after much closer inspection it appears (not really sure) that my barrel is extremely fouled. Even with a regular cleaning with strong copper solvent I can see some type of "obstructions" that looks like small rust areas. My local gun guy says its copper. He also says its going to take at least a day of cleaning with solvent to get it out. I am not convinced (totally) that it is copper I think it is a rough barrel. Saying this I did clean on it for about 2 hours yesterday and it is looking somewhat better. I am going to work on it again today and see what happens. There are also some "lapping" bullets available that you load and shoot through it that is supposed to help. I will keep yall informed.


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## Ernest (May 21, 2004)

Copper cure - but perhaps not a cure all. 

Sweet's - three passes real wet and then let it dwell. 15 to 20 minutes. Sweets is significantly stronger than stuff like Butch's Bore Shine. 

End of the period, wet a patch with hydrogen peroxide. Run that thru. The hydrogen peroxide will begin to foam up and before it comes out of the muzzle, you will see a whole bunch of blue foam coming out the end of your barrel. 

Clean out the hydrogen peroxide, and then hit it with some more sweets. Again, couple passes real wet, and then let it dwell. Then patch out. If the patches are not blue/green, its not copper. 

Have you looked at it with a bore scope? That will tell you real quick whether your barrel is fouled with copper or if its rust/rough spots that just happen to collect fouling. 

I would at least try some bore paste before I shot any "sand paper" bullets down my barrel. In fact, "sand paper" bullets are the very last thing I would consider running thru a decent or good barrel.


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## Pocketfisherman (May 30, 2005)

David Tubb, a multi year champion hi power shooter and builder of fine precision rifles swears by lapping bullets. But......they are the last thing you want to use on a fouled barrel. They should be used only on a factory new barrel before fouling has a chance to build up. He also has a some great books out, one is specific to reloading for accuracy in the 223.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Ernest

I have been using Sweets to clean on a regular basis and always thought that would get the "stuff" out. Been working again with Sweet's but never tried the peroxide deal before.. I will keep working on it and see what happens. Been told its gonna take a lot of time.. and effort..

Pocketfisherman

Thanks for the info and I will keep everyone informed..

I just think the barrel wasnt worth a dern to begin with..


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## Texas T (May 21, 2004)

Charlie, I have had great luck with the earlier version of this. It works for electrically pulling the copper or lead of the barrel. With heavy build up you may have to use it then switch to mechanical method (brush/swab) then back to it.

http://www.midwayusa.com/Product/243419/outers-foul-out-3-bore-cleaning-system


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

heres the latest today

Began cleaning again today with Sweet's and the peroxide method that Ernest mentioned. There is no blue showing at all. Did not show with the peroxide. Visual inspection again does show "something" throughout the barrel. I will call them rough spots or raised spots. They are throughout the barrel both lands and groves. Any further cleaning with sweet's makes no difference they stay and there is no blue residue whatsoever. I am going to the range tomorrow for another try at it after all the cleaning. I dont think there will be much change if any. I still think I have a piece of junk barrel..

Texas T good info and we will see whats next. probably a new barrel someday.


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## Ernest (May 21, 2004)

Sorry to hear it.


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## deckh (Jul 23, 2010)

Charlie, A borescope would be a great help to settle it once and for all. Do you know of any "real" gunsmiths near you? Good luck. A friend gave me a 6mm Remington heavy barrel that someone gave him. It stood on my workbench for 25 yrs+. Had 2 Gunsmiths tell me it was shot out and no good. About a year ago I had a chance to buy a Remington 700 long action. The seller told me bring the barrel to him. We, actually he, installed the barrel and headspaced it. Darn thing shoots 75 gr and 100 gr. Sierras into 1/2 and 3/4 inch groups. Doesn't like the 85 grainers.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Deckh

My gunsmith buddy, Jerry at Shooters Corner does not have a bore scope but I can see with my eye all these little thingies in my barrel. They certainly dont belong there (what ever they are). Yes borescope would be great.. and thanks for the information.


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## Marshman (Jul 24, 2008)

Charlie, have you thought about maybe lapping that barrel? Sounds as if you might benefit from it, I have seen quite a few rifles saved with it. One that comes to mind right away was a horrible shooting... you guessed it, 223 mini 14.

I's sooner risk that than the sandpaper bullets. Next stop if either doesn't work would be maybe a new barrel.

FWIW, it does appear as if it is not carbon or copper based on the description (carbon) and lack of blue ( copper).


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## B-Money (May 2, 2005)

Stainless steel bore brush, used sparingly, may help, too. 

If you are not attached to it, you may want to cut it loose and get you a younger, fresher model with less baggage.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Marshman

Yes I think that will be the next aproach although it is similiar to the "lapping bullets" just takes a lot more time. I mite just shoot some of the "sandpaper" bullets because if it screws it up there has been no loss since it is screwed up anyway..

Bobby 
It may come to that but I have to give it a few more trys with the above stuff.


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## twang56 (Nov 21, 2010)

*Charlie*

Before you develope a complex, rebarrel or sell it.

Remingtons in the last 7-10 years have not been the Remingtons of reputation. When top guys like Kenny Jarrett (Beanfield rifle) stopped accepting them as rebuild guns that says it all especially when that use to be his go to gun for accuracy.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

twang56

Yes sir if all the above fails I am planning to rebarrel it.


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## RobaloSunrise (Jun 10, 2011)

What brand of rifle is it?


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

RobaloSunrise

Its a Reminton Model 7


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Went to the range today after all the cleaning. The zero changed about 4 inches to the left (9 oclock) for any reason I have no clue. It still shot all over the place. Next is the lapping bullet and then a new barrel or gun


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## THE JAMMER (Aug 1, 2005)

Charlie, I know lots have said to get rid of it, but I know you are a lot like me. The CHALLENGE is to gitter dun yourself, no matter how long it takes. 

How great is it going to feel when you finally figure this one out??? That's why we do a lot of this, right??? Hang in there. The bore scope is a great suggestion. I could not believe what you can see through one of those. I think Kerry at Match Grade right by Carter's on Treaschwig has one, and he can definitely do the work for you if need be. Tell him I sent you.

Good luck


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## pacontender (Jun 26, 2004)

Charlie, I have a borescope at the ranch. Make a drive up 16 sometime and we can check it out.

Mike


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Regarding the bore scope yes thats a great idea but I can see the stuff in there with my eye so its really bad. I reallythink its been a defective barrel since day one..


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## coogerpop (Sep 3, 2009)

Marshman said:


> Charlie, have you thought about maybe lapping that barrel? Sounds as if you might benefit from it, I have seen quite a few rifles saved with it. One that comes to mind right away was a horrible shooting... you guessed it, 223 mini 14.
> 
> I's sooner risk that than the sandpaper bullets. Next stop if either doesn't work would be maybe a new barrel.
> 
> FWIW, it does appear as if it is not carbon or copper based on the description (carbon) and lack of blue ( copper).


Lapping sounds like the way to go...at least in the beginning...if that doesn't do it.....Well mr.Douglas or Mr Shillen or any of their relatives can be your friend.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Well believe it or not I did hit a walking **** (big one) at 200 yards. Braced against a "T" post and held a little high and in front of his nose and somehow hit him. He was eating corn from a deer feeder. No more


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## Bantam1 (Jun 26, 2007)

Well you know the rifle is Minute of Racoon accurate  

Did you ever contact Remington? A good friend of mine purchased a 700 in 300WSM and could not get it to shoot well with any ammo. He spent hundreds of dollars trying different ammo and could not get it to group, or even put a round close to the same spot. He sent it back to Remington and they called him and asked him if he wanted a new rifle. They couldn't get it to shoot either. He ended up with a 7mm. Who knows what was wrong but it took them 8 months to call him and offer him a new rifle. Or maybe it wasn't worth all the labor they would need to put into the rifle to make it shoot.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Bantam1

I have not talked with remington its not a bad idea but I think I have had the gun too long for them to do anything about it. Its about 7 years old and has never shot worth a hoot.


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## monark (May 12, 2005)

Here is a trick my FIL taught me. It resurrected two rifles. Wrap Teflon tape around a spent cartridge, insert & close the bolt. Stand the rifle up & fill the barrel with Hoppes #9, just like a full rain gauge. Leave over night. Dump and run a wire brush through & repeat for a second night. I was impressed with the amount of crud I got out of a barrel I thought was clean. It won't fix a bad barrel from the manufacturer but it will clean a fouled one.


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## Bantam1 (Jun 26, 2007)

Im pretty sure Remington offers a lifetime warranty. I would contact them and see what they say. I mean what do you have to lose if they say no? If they say send it in then maybe they will find the problem and correct it.


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## twang56 (Nov 21, 2010)

*Remington*

About 4 yrs back a retired Major friend of mine decided since he had time he would take up deer hunting again and purchase a SS 270 WSM laminated stock Remingtion. He said he was haveing trouble sighting in and wanted me accompany him to finish the sighing in. After 5 brands of ammo, a leupold, meopta, swarovski and schmidt & bender scopes being used it was decided it was the gun. Sent it back to Remington. About 5 months later they returned it back with no explanation other than *it was fine*. Had a mutual friend who was a sniper give it a go. He said it was the biggest piece of @h*% he had ever seen with the remington name on it. Said it needed a barrel. How bad was it. Best 25 yd group was 2.33 inches and best 100 yd group was 5.875. These were the best! Some ammo brands might land only 1 round inside an 14" x 14" target at 100 yds. Remington said *it was fine*. Good luck with Remington.


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## Bantam1 (Jun 26, 2007)

That is what happened with my friends rifle but they replaced it. He tried different scopes and ammo. He let the dealer send it back. Maybe that was the difference?


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## B-Money (May 2, 2005)

Charlie, 
Kenny Rogers summed it up when he said, "you got to know when to walk away, and know when to run...."

To further that, my good friend, Doug, said, "you can't polish a turd."

So, now you know my not-so-humble opinion.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Hey Bobby I think we are on the same page. I am gonna try the "lapping" program first and then do what has to be done..


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