# Gulf Council Meeting in San Antonio



## hilton (Jan 28, 2008)

Howdy,
There is a Gulf Council meeting this coming week (starting tomorrow) in San Antonio. You may be interested to know that they are considering taking final action on the Charterboat and Headboat IFQ/PFQ system at this meeting and sending it up to the Secretary of Commerce for approval/implementation.

http://gulfcouncil.org/wp-content/uploads/B-5a-Draft-RF-Amendment-42-1.pdf

http://gulfcouncil.org/wp-content/uploads/B-6a-Draft-RF-Amendment-41.pdf

This is where they would carve out a % of the total recreational allocation of the following species; *red snapper, greater amberjack, grey triggerfish, gag grouper, and red grouper*, and give *OWNERSHIP* of these fish to a few for-hire corporations.

And you thought this was *JUST* about red snapper. This is just the beginning and it will not stop until every single federally-managed fish swimming out there is gifted to corporations and in the process, *YOUR* access is diminished. Next will be beeliners, cobia, dorado, king mackerel, spanish mackerel, etc.

If you do not agree with this action, you should show up in San Antonio on Wednesday to make the public comments portion of the meeting to voice your disapproval of this theft of our Public Trust Resources.
*Public testimony will be held on Wednesday, August 9 from 1:30 to 5:30 p.m. at the Marriott Plaza in San Antonio.
*
Ask them why they are giving *OUR *fish away for *FREE*, and why they aren't considering levying royalties on these corporations for the privilege of profiting from the harvest of OUR Public Trust Resources like any other industry is mandated by law to pay.

It's time to say NO! to Catch Shares and return to *REAL* fisheries management instead of this fish grab to benefit the bank accounts of a few corporations. The future access to our fisheries for our children is on the line here.

http://www.Freedom2Fish.org


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## glgardnerjr (Apr 15, 2009)

We need recreational fisherman to ATTEND and SPEAK at the meeting! If you can go it is critical that we have as much representation as possible. Hickman and others will be there in force to push their agenda. If we are not heard we will likely lose it all.

PLEASE ATTEND.


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## Empty Pockets CC (Feb 18, 2009)

I've never been to one of these things and I've decided to go and say my piece. 
Come on San Antone, Austin town, and surrounding area amigos. Ask to take a late lunch from work and show up. You don't need to own a boat, you just need to like to offshore fish. There are more of us than them and we need to start showing up to voice our side of the facts. If we don't toot our own horns, no one else will. I've personally burned half a vacation day to go attend. It's that important to me, I would hope it would be that important to you too!


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## darthwader2000 (Jan 4, 2015)

This is what it looks like when you give the rights to our fish away.

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## briggss1 (May 27, 2006)

I am going for public comments on Wed, 1-5 pm. Please reply if you are going. I know we have a few from San Antonio already, plus Hilton (as usual) and Empty Pockets.


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## darthwader2000 (Jan 4, 2015)

Update that I heard was a real kick in the round ones. Recs where 8 million pounds over.









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## mikozz (Jun 6, 2006)

I'll be there.


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## TXBoatWhisperer (Feb 1, 2017)

For those who attend, please post any website they offer for public comment. I know when TPWD had their public forum they offered a website. I can't make it from Corpus but would love to express my concerns. 

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## blaze 'em (Jun 4, 2012)

I wonder if they are counting the snapper certain charters are still keeping even though their season is closed... 

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## BullyARed (Jun 19, 2010)

darthwader2000 said:


> Update that I heard was a real kick in the round ones. Recs where 8 million pounds over.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I haven't caught one freaking red snapper for the year yet! Where did they get these numbers? Oh, I know where and you too.


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## hilton (Jan 28, 2008)

blaze 'em said:


> I wonder if they are counting the snapper certain charters are still keeping even though their season is closed...
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk


Please elaborate!


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## hilton (Jan 28, 2008)

F2F is attending the Gulf Council meeting this week in San Antonio. We are pleased to see Mr. Chris Oliver, the new head of NMFS in attendance! Will keep you apprised of any interesting developments. 

They are currently discussing gifting away ownership of OUR fish to for-hire corporations via AMs 41 and 42. The species included in these amendments are; red snapper, grey triggerfish, greater amberjack, gag grouper, and red grouper. I don't believe the federal government should have the right to give away our Public Trust Resources to private individuals for their exclusive access/benefit!


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## blaze 'em (Jun 4, 2012)

hilton said:


> Please elaborate!


Pm sent

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## mrsh978 (Apr 24, 2006)

Again, where are these numbers coming from ? I have never , nor anyone I know been asked how many fish I caught/catch .


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## darthwader2000 (Jan 4, 2015)

mrsh978 said:


> Again, where are these numbers coming from ? I have never , nor anyone I know been asked how many fish I caught/catch .


According to the "experts" @46,000 fish a day where caught in the GOM. Math doesn't make any sense to me as there where no additional days added to season, 4 state days where SWAPPED for 3 federal days. So we lost days. Plus Louisiana has said that the number of fish being landed is behind what was projected. All a load of bull. They just want the chosen few to profit.

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## hilton (Jan 28, 2008)

The Gulf Council deferred any vote on Ams 41 and 42 until the next Gulf Council meeting in Biloxi. It exposed the intent to push this vote through at this meeting by commercial/enviro interests even though it has not been properly vetted and reviewed.

I would hope that the next Council allow Ams 41 and 42 to die, as pushing for further privatization of our fish through IFQs or PFQs is unacceptable.

I would also recommend that the next Gulf Council start work on rescinding AM 30B which unfairly discriminates against recreational anglers who fish on federally-permitted for-hire vessels.

I would also like to see AM 40 (Sector Separation) to be allowed to sunset as originally promised.

There is no room for implementing rules that discriminate against recreational fishermen based on what his feet is standing on. A recreational fisherman is a recreational fisherman - it doesn't matter if he is standing on a dock, a jetty, in a private boat, or a for-hire boat. 

Enough is enough of this profit grab masquerading as fisheries management!

The ONLY reason for Sector Separation is to provide the platform to implement IFQs/PFQs in our recreational fisheries - AMs 41 and 42 are proof in the pudding.


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## salty hook (Jun 19, 2014)

So is F2F attending in Biloxi also?


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

I would bet F2F will be in Biloxi. Great group with the facts at hand.


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## hilton (Jan 28, 2008)

Yes, we will be in Biloxi for the next GC meeting.


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## kingfisherred (Aug 12, 2005)

hilton said:


> The Gulf Council deferred any vote on Ams 41 and 42 until the next Gulf Council meeting in Biloxi. It exposed the intent to push this vote through at this meeting by commercial/enviro interests even though it has not been properly vetted and reviewed.
> 
> I would hope that the next Council allow Ams 41 and 42 to die, as pushing for further privatization of our fish through IFQs or PFQs is unacceptable.
> 
> ...


So Tom how did this happen? I figured with the way the voting council is currently stacked in favor of the CFH guys it would have went through.


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## hilton (Jan 28, 2008)

There is a new attitude with NMFS since the new administration came into power. I think Crabtree was a little sensitive about the perception if they rammed this through with the lame duck commercial Sea Lord and lame duck pro-sector separation charter owner/operator providing the votes.


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## dlbpjb (Oct 9, 2009)

put me down for one tomorrow.


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## TXFishin (Apr 26, 2010)

hilton said:


> F2F is attending the Gulf Council meeting this week in San Antonio. We are pleased to see Mr. Chris Oliver, the new head of NMFS in attendance! Will keep you apprised of any interesting developments.


I really wish I could have made this! I had vacation days scheduled and was ready to go, but due to unforseen circumstances in losing some key resources at work, left me with no option but to stay back 

Relentless


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## trapper67 (Mar 23, 2011)

any updates?


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## mrsh978 (Apr 24, 2006)

I've been here 15 mins and all I've heard is dirtbag commys saying how wonderful the system is for them and how great it will be - Eric brazer currently


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## mrsh978 (Apr 24, 2006)

Johnny Williams - Williams party boats - dirt bag 3. I can see I'm not going to really enjoy this ....it seems to boil down how to split the money bag up amongst commys....."an industry meeting " . I don't have a party boat


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## mrsh978 (Apr 24, 2006)

Tom Wheatley -trust holder from Florida-


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## mrsh978 (Apr 24, 2006)

Micheal short, Gregg ball - charter for hire.


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## mrsh978 (Apr 24, 2006)

Lisa Schmidt- Florida commy


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## mrsh978 (Apr 24, 2006)

Lisa Schmidt- Florida commy - has lisc but is a registered nurse.....obviously a expert on her commercial fishery


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## mrsh978 (Apr 24, 2006)

Blake osgood- one of us finally gets to speak


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## mrsh978 (Apr 24, 2006)

David brown - up - telling it like it is. Plain and simple


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## mrsh978 (Apr 24, 2006)

Donald Jackson- rec. review a public resource, not a commercial revenue


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## mrsh978 (Apr 24, 2006)

Crabtree won't look up


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## NaClH2O (May 25, 2004)

Thanks for the updates. Keep 'em comin' as much as you're willing and able.


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## mrsh978 (Apr 24, 2006)

*Meeting*

Only time he is paying attention is when a commy is up. The few rec speakers he was playing with phone . Buddy is up in a few. Susan Boggs - commy just *****ing about RS to her commercial busn . I have never had such witness to wealthy individuals *****ing about the millions they make


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## mrsh978 (Apr 24, 2006)

I'm sitting next to Williams ( commy) and my eyes are watering from his over abundance of the worst cologne known to man


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## mrsh978 (Apr 24, 2006)

Hughes Andrey- a fishing tackle rep. His numbers are up due to recs buying more Tackle. Imagine that.


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## MikeWilson (Dec 31, 2009)

I'm listening in. Every commercial and Charter sector separator speaking sounds like they are almost in tears when they are thanking outgoing council members Charter Boat Owner Pam Dana and Commercial Fisherman David Walker for their "service" on the council. cry me a river. 


Next up scott hickman


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## mrsh978 (Apr 24, 2006)

Scott Hickman - IFQ advocate


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## mrsh978 (Apr 24, 2006)

I had to get back to work. Spolled up will speak after buddy


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## mrsh978 (Apr 24, 2006)

I misspoke/typed. I believe empty pockets was following buddy. Just caught my error


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## Empty Pockets CC (Feb 18, 2009)

I brought up the caboose.


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## blaze 'em (Jun 4, 2012)

Empty Pockets CC said:


> I brought up the caboose.


Well how'd it go?

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## bwguardian (Aug 30, 2005)

Was this recorded and put online like the most of the other hearings done in Austin? In my experience, most is just audio, but even that would be helpful.


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## hilton (Jan 28, 2008)

One really great exchange was when EDF guy Eric Brazer (now executive director of the Gulf of Mexico Reef Fish Shareholders Alliance) was talking about how they have set up a quota bank to "help" with new entrants. The rep from the SAFMC in attendance asked Mr. Brazer how much the lease rate was to these new entrants. Mr. Brazer answered; "Market rate" and wanted to leave it at that. The rep was persistent, and asked what was the "market rate". Brazer reluctantly answered "$3.35 to $3.50 per pound".

So, the question begs; Just how is charging newcomers to the commercial red snapper fishing industry these exorbitant lease rates going to help them make a living?

Answer: It doesn't. It simply expands the revenue stream for the Sea Lords from leasing "their" fish.

What needs to happen is to require the IFQ shareholders to lease their % of quota directly from the government each year instead of being exempted from paying royalties. This would automatically prohibit shareholders from collecting revenues from leasing OUR fish - if there is any leasing to be done, it should be done directly from the fishermen actually doing the fishing and the government. 

If the lease rate was $1.00 per pound, this would give the nation a return on investment, and could create a new revenue stream that COULD be used to help fund fisheries needs. Hundreds of millions of $$ COULD have been raised since IFQs were introduced, but instead have been allowed to remain in private bank accounts.

The commercial quota needs to be cut back to what it was when IFQs were introduced - 4.65 million pounds, and any quota above that placed in a quota bank that could be used for new entrants and/or needed bycatch quota.


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## Shredded Evidence (Jun 25, 2007)

hilton said:


> One really great exchange was when EDF guy Eric Brazer (now executive director of the Gulf of Mexico Reef Fish Shareholders Alliance) was talking about how they have set up a quota bank to "help" with new entrants. The rep from the SAFMC in attendance asked Mr. Brazer how much the lease rate was to these new entrants. Mr. Brazer answered; "Market rate" and wanted to leave it at that. The rep was persistent, and asked what was the "market rate". Brazer reluctantly answered "$3.35 to $3.50 per pound".
> 
> So, the question begs; Just how is charging newcomers to the commercial red snapper fishing industry these exorbitant lease rates going to help them make a living?
> 
> ...


This makes me head hurt. I am thankful you are in the midst of it though Tom!


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## mrsh978 (Apr 24, 2006)

After sitting thru what I say thru( thank you Tom again) , what I got is there are professionals spinning the story to their direct monetary benefit. Secondly I learned that I could - at next meeting- put up vending machines selling tampons and maxipads to help the commys get thru the day - lot of bleeding by them I noticed ......and maybe I could cash in on a natural occurrence too


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## Empty Pockets CC (Feb 18, 2009)

blaze 'em said:


> Well how'd it go?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk


1. We need more recreational fisherman to show up and give short testimony. 
2. I have never heard so much crying, wailing, complaining, whining, and poor poor me's in my whole life from a group of grown men on the comm side. I'm sorry guys, some of you aren't going to be rich being fisherman unless you were gifted shares and are now selling them or leasing them for profit (sea lords). 
All in all, after attending my first meeting I have come to the conclusion that the comms have a major scam going on which I view to be certainly criminal. The average man would not put up with this if they knew and heard about what is going on. The private tax paying citizen and recreational fisherman are getting boned.


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## dlbpjb (Oct 9, 2009)

Agreed, a lot of what about me. Next I will not wait until then end to speak and maybe next I might actually stick to my bullet points.


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## briggss1 (May 27, 2006)

Thanks to all who attended and listened in. Moving forward, I agree with Empty Pockets - we did pretty good on attendance, but we were still under represented relative to the commercial side - and we all know that the CFA "recreational" charter captains represent commercial interests.

I will say this - there is a feeling of change in the air. Chris Oliver was there and heard this all. It appears that they deferred decisions on AM 41 and 42 and Crabtree was the one who requested this motion - a stark contrast to what would have been expected under the previous leadership. Hilton mentioned a while back that the snapper extension was a big shot across the NOAA/NMFS/GC bow to fix the egregious problems that took us to a 3 day RS season. Well this may be the first sign of proof that he was spot-on.

For the record- we advocated for all species, not just RS. A lot of Freedom2Fish hats being worn around. 
Next meeting is in Biloxi in October. If we get enough commitments early on to attend, we may rent a bus to haul us there and back. We need a minimum of 30-50 true recreational fishermen at the podium for public comments.

Again - thanks to all of you who answered the call and made this trip. Good to put names with faces!


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## Sabine Flounder Pounder2 (Jun 29, 2016)

bwguardian said:


> Was this recorded and put online like the most of the other hearings done in Austin? In my experience, most is just audio, but even that would be helpful.


All council meetings are broadcast live through a webinar. You will hear all the audio plus computer generated graphics and texts. Go the council's web site and sign up to receive emails and notification, also you can follow them on Facebook, Emily is good about providing the link for the webinar. You will need to install the Go To Meeting app in order to onnect to the webinar.


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## crismiller (May 1, 2013)

briggss1 said:


> Thanks to all who attended and listened in. Moving forward, I agree with Empty Pockets - we did pretty good on attendance, but we were still under represented relative to the commercial side - and we all know that the CFA "recreational" charter captains represent commercial interests.
> 
> I will say this - there is a feeling of change in the air. Chris Oliver was there and heard this all. It appears that they deferred decisions on AM 41 and 42 and Crabtree was the one who requested this motion - a stark contrast to what would have been expected under the previous leadership. Hilton mentioned a while back that the snapper extension was a big shot across the NOAA/NMFS/GC bow to fix the egregious problems that took us to a 3 day RS season. Well this may be the first sign of proof that he was spot-on.
> 
> ...


Just a thought because a lot of us recs work during the day and find it hard to make these meetings, is there anyway to send letters that can be presented to the council?
Something is better then nothing and at least could be presented at the meetings. I don't know, what do you think?


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## Sabine Flounder Pounder2 (Jun 29, 2016)

Sabine Flounder Pounder2 said:


> All council meetings are broadcast live through a webinar. You will hear all the audio plus computer generated graphics and texts. Go the council's web site and sign up to receive emails and notification, also you can follow them on Facebook, Emily is good about providing the link for the webinar. You will need to install the Go To Meeting app in order to onnect to the webinar.


Correction!!!! That app is Go To Webinar, sry guys.


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## mikozz (Jun 6, 2006)

Brought my wife & son to the meeting. My son and I spoke. As has been stated, recs were vastly outnumbered by comms & CFH's and their families, but that isn't surprising to me since there is real money on the line for those folks, while by definition recs only fish for fun. Pretty sick to see the other side consistently come to the podium and individually glad-hand councilmembers, like they were long lost buddies back in 'Nam. Lots of accolades given by the comm/CFH crowd to the two outgoing members who have been consistently in their corner. A couple of comms even demanded that the council proceed with the Amendments 41 & 42 vote even though the council had already announced they were deferring it until the October meeting. 

When I spoke, I made the comment that my dad as a retired shrimper would love it if the Feds were to announce a new IFQ program for shrimp, and so the years he spent rolling around in the Gulf would be used to calculate his share of the commercial IFQ allocation. He would love nothing better than to sit at home in his recliner and collect several hundred thousand bucks per year by leasing his allocation to hapless shrimpers who have no other choice but to pay his extortion fee. Several comms who spoke after me seemed incensed at the suggestion that they were ever given anything....and that they all worked for their living. That may be true for the poor souls who are forced to pay $3.50/lb for their quota. It's the guys who sit at home collecting free rent that makes me sick. I recently looked at the list of allocation holders who lease their quotas out, and I recognized a familiar name on the list as a guy who used to shrimp with my dad back in the day. When I told my dad this guy is sitting on his butt at home getting rich off the free gift the Feds give him each & every year, he just shook his head & said he should've sold all his nets & went snapper fishing with all the other guys who couldn't catch shrimp!

Thanks to all recs who attended & spoke. I really hope we can have a better showing in the future. I understand everyone is busy....I have plenty of work to catch up on at the office myself....but when I think of how heavily invested most of us recs are in terms of boats, gear, repairs, maintenance, etc., it seems a small price to pay to take a day off every now & then to help protect a sport we're all passionate about. And if your excuse is you prefer to fish for species other than snapper, remember that snapper is only the beginning of this madness. Left unchecked, we'll eventually be locked out of fishing for most other species too.


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## bjd76 (Jan 12, 2008)

When exactly in October is the meeting so we can plan accordingly and/or rearrange things if there is a conflict?


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## hilton (Jan 28, 2008)

Gulf Council Meeting â€“ October 2017
October 2 - October 5

Beau Rivage Resort
875 Beach Blvd.
Biloxi, MS 39530
(228) 386-7111

Public comments will be October 4th 1:30 pm to 5:30 pm


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## surfcowboy (Jun 29, 2005)

I wish I could be there. The bad thing is I work overseas.


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## silentpardner (Aug 4, 2013)

Say...whatever happened to that Freedom to Fish thing? Did they ever get a 501c3 charter? Has anyone heard from BRIGGS1? I know the whole thing was supposed to be a secret plan and all, just curious. Thanks in advance!


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## WestEndAngler (Jan 30, 2007)

silentpardner said:


> Say...whatever happened to that Freedom to Fish thing? Did they ever get a 501c3 charter? Has anyone heard from BRIGGS1? I know the whole thing was supposed to be a secret plan and all, just curious. Thanks in advance!


He hasn't logged on since September 30, 2017


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## Oyster Dog (May 21, 2005)

On the same note, whatever happened to the Texas RFA?


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## Get'er Wet (Aug 25, 2016)

GFM account is still showing $24.4k. Maybe Hilton knows what's going on. 


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## -Jake- (Aug 5, 2016)

Crickets

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## hilton (Jan 28, 2008)

Freedom2Fish is still going strong.

As a startup that did not have official nonprofit status, staffed 100% by part-time volunteers, coupled with the hurricane, work requirements (Briggs has been out of the country most of last fall), back to school, etc., we decided to make the best use of our time/resources by refocusing our efforts in early 2018. We don't have an *Environmental Defense Fund *providing hundreds of thousands of dollars per year to operate like *The Charter Fishermans Association*, *Gulf of Mexico Reef Fish Shareholders Alliance, Gulf Seafood Institute,* etc. certainly have although you'll never hear any of those guys even mention their benefactor EDF.

The good news is that we have received our official 501-c3 status so that people who donated towards the cause can write it off on their taxes now.

If anyone is interested in donating their time and effort to fighting for the rights of recreational fishermen, you can reach me at 713-53zero-2267 or hilton at rt-nav.com. We need people to attend the next Gulf Council meeting in New Orleans next week.

http://freedom2fish.org/


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

There is an important notice for all fisherman regarding the upcoming election down in the Jungle under conservation and crossfire.


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## darthwader2000 (Jan 4, 2015)

CHARLIE said:


> There is an important notice for all fisherman regarding the upcoming election down in the Jungle under conservation and crossfire.


Maybe freedom2fish should use all that unused money and support â€œSargeâ€. Least something would be done with it.

I suggest that, knowing that I didnâ€™t donate anything, because of concerns over this happening.

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## hilton (Jan 28, 2008)

darthwader2000 said:


> Maybe freedom2fish should use all that unused money and support â€œSargeâ€. Least something would be done with it.
> 
> I suggest that, knowing that I didnâ€™t donate anything, because of concerns over this happening.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You justify not doing something because of what happening? Because concerned anglers actually got off their *** and actually are doing something instead of whining on a keyboard?

It's a shame that recreational anglers can't support those actually taking the time and energy to make a difference and actually attack them as if we are the enemy.


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## darthwader2000 (Jan 4, 2015)

hilton said:


> You justify not doing something because of what happening? Because concerned anglers actually got off their *** and actually are doing something instead of whining on a keyboard?
> 
> It's a shame that recreational anglers can't support those actually taking the time and energy to make a difference and actually attack them as if we are the enemy.


Hold on a second Tom. I did not donate money to freedom2fish because of no real statement or plan. I was not going to just throw money away.

As for me not doing anything. I was the one that tried to put together a boat parade down I45. Got FTU to allow us to use their parking lot to stage it. I was going to DO SOMETHING BESIDES TYPE. Your buddy Briggs talked me out of it as the two of yâ€™all had a great plan.

I will gladly post the messages with your partner, offering donations if he would tell me how freedom2fish was going to be different than CCA.

I have stood up for both of yâ€™all on this board many of times. Even spent sometime in â€œband campâ€ over it. I not you enemy on here.

But I guess suggesting that freedom2fish support the only real shot of getting rid of Randy Weber is great reason for you to lash out.

In a couple weeks the gulf council will give us a few day season( if any). We will see how good of job this top secret plan worked.

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## J_Philla (Oct 22, 2009)

this is a prime example of why the rec sector cant win anything throughout the process of the council, you have guys on the same page fighting the same fight, but for some reason the powers that be cant sit down and get their **** together for the cause. this is why the commercial sector got their way, no one is fighting among themselves like a bunch of grade schoolers. when the cfh and rec sector was still one user group was prolly the best chance that the weekender rec had at saving his snapper season. by dividing up that allocation it has now turned yet another group against the recs, and has furthermore set back the reestablished seasons we all hoped and prayed for. 

Capt. Josh


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## hilton (Jan 28, 2008)

Yessir.

Darth, while his intentions were good with the I-45 protest, ultimately when it came down to the nut-cuttin', he said he didn't have the time and threw it to Briggs who declined. It would have been counter-productive in our opinion to stage a protest down I-45, disrupting traffic and ultimately ******* people off. Kudos to Darth for at least trying to come up with a plan of action at the local level.

Look, there is a limitation to what a startup staffed with non-paid volunteers can accomplish in a few short months - F2F doesn't have a Walter Fondren like CCA did or an EDF like CFA/Shareholers Alliance do to get them off the runway. 

That's reality, and we at F2F have nothing to be ashamed about and nothing to hide - we have done, and will continue to do our best to fight the good fight. And no, we haven't used the funds generated to buy us new fishing tackle as some have claimed - all of the funds spent are accounted for, and were used for the best bang for the buck.

Reality is also the massive corruption and river of money that is running the show at the Council level all the way to D.C. When Magnuson was reauthorized in 2006, which was the catalyst that has caused most all of the fisheries problems we are facing today, I was 49 years old. Today, I am looking at 61 years, and the current reauthorization going through Congress in my opinion has little to no chance to make it through the Senate - don't get me wrong, I certainly hope it does but the commercial/EDF lobby is too strong at the Congressional level for any really meaningful legislation to be introduced at all, much less passed. I do not want to be fighting this same fight when I'm 70, but it looks as though this will not be going away anytime soon. Even CCA, ASA, RFA, etc. with their massive staffs/resources cannot change this and it is unreasonable, in my opinion, to be throwing rocks at F2F. I have fought the fight pretty much alone for many years now, on my own dime, and I am growing weary of it all.

Tom


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## darthwader2000 (Jan 4, 2015)

Tom you are mostly right. We are after the same goal. Just different paths. The boat parade was canceled because no organization wanted to have their name associated with it. So there was nothing to gain with the publicity that would have been attracted. 

I was only suggesting that maybe freedom2fish make a donation to Sarge and help him beat Randy Weaver. 
I will PM you and get this off of the public board. 


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## Fin Reaper (May 31, 2012)

darthwader2000 said:


> Tom you are mostly right. We are after the same goal. Just different paths. The boat parade was canceled because no organization wanted to have their name associated with it. So there was nothing to gain with the publicity that would have been attracted.
> 
> I was only suggesting that maybe freedom2fish make a donation to Sarge and help him beat Randy Weaver.
> I will PM you and get this off of the public board.
> ...


randy "WEBER"


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## bjd76 (Jan 12, 2008)

darthwader2000 said:


> Tom you are mostly right. We are after the same goal. Just different paths. The boat parade was canceled because no organization wanted to have their name associated with it. So there was nothing to gain with the publicity that would have been attracted.
> 
> I was only suggesting that maybe freedom2fish make a donation to Sarge and help him beat Randy Weaver.
> I will PM you and get this off of the public board.
> ...


Excuse me, but if that was your intent you failed miserably. Your original message had plenty of negative innuendo regarding F2F.

I would not be opposed to F2F making a reasonable contribution to a candidate that supported our position but do realize that he would only be one of about 435 voices on the subject...


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## hilton (Jan 28, 2008)

F2F will be making an announcement soon that should open some eyes.


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## Robert.Parson (Sep 7, 2004)

Hilton
Your killing me...
I have been checking the F2F everyday and nothing...
Come on, out with it already.

Sent from my E6810 using Tapatalk


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## dlbpjb (Oct 9, 2009)

í ½í±†í ¼í¿¼


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## hilton (Jan 28, 2008)

Patience - some things need to play out. In discussions with head of NMFS and multiple officials at Dept. of Commerce.

It appears that certain EDF-funded Texas captains have led the Texas charter fleet to slaughter.

Not sure how the Texas private recs will make out with the EFPs.


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## bwguardian (Aug 30, 2005)

hilton said:


> Patience - some things need to play out. In discussions with head of NMFS and multiple officials at Dept. of Commerce.
> 
> *It appears that certain EDF-funded Texas captains have led the Texas charter fleet to slaughter.*
> 
> Not sure how the Texas private recs will make out with the EFPs.


Greed is a dangerous thing...I hope the other affected charter captains take care of the issue over time.


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## Snookered (Jun 16, 2009)

hilton said:


> Not sure how the Texas private recs will make out with the EFPs.


I listened to bits and pieces yesterday (it was busy in the office)...I think the states did a fine job of presenting their plans, but a couple things really made my blood boil...

1) even state "control" would be based on the TAC determined by Crabtree...we wouldn't be gaining any more days, and the EFP's were obviously written by NOAA (that don't adhere to any NEPA guidelines, but that's another story altogether)....the EFP's call for Texas to permanently give up their state water season....I say heck no and stop right there, but I"ll continue..

2) they rolled out what the numbers would look like for each states allocation (inserted below) but only at the end of the meeting...NOAA didn't see it prudent to at least give the numbers to the actual sitting members of the council until discussion was almost over...Texas private anglers getting 6% (of 29%) with a 20% overage buffer and a 20% discard buffer??!! you kidding me? if you break down the 241,245 lbs with an 8lb average, that's 30,155 total red snapper for Texas private anglers for an entire year...

I think Texas should secede from the proceedings and tell NOAA to take a long walk off a short pier, but I know that's not the "grown-up" way to behave....it just really sucks...


snookered


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## High_Water (Jun 6, 2017)

Snookered said:


> I listened to bits and pieces yesterday (it was busy in the office)...I think the states did a fine job of presenting their plans, but a couple things really made my blood boil...
> 
> 1) even state "control" would be based on the TAC determined by Crabtree...we wouldn't be gaining any more days, and the EFP's were obviously written by NOAA (that don't adhere to any NEPA guidelines, but that's another story altogether)....the EFP's call for Texas to permanently give up their state water season....I say heck no and stop right there, but I"ll continue..
> 
> ...


"30,155 total red snapper for Texas private anglers for an entire year..."
How does this number compare to historical numbers of Texas private angler catch rates? Are the historic state stats even available anywhere?


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## Snookered (Jun 16, 2009)

High_Water said:


> "30,155 total red snapper for Texas private anglers for an entire year..."
> How does this number compare to historical numbers of Texas private angler catch rates? Are the historic state stats even available anywhere?


well, and of course I should have expected that question High Water, and honestly there's not a single source where you can find that information easily (although I'm sure that info exists in a private document at NOAA)...

best I can do is dig up the 2014 numbers, just to have something to look at



but this doesn't tell the whole story, because of the punishment that occurred in 2014 from the massive (supposed) overage of 2013...check this out, the left column is the private rec TAC for the entire gulf, and the next column to the right is the (theoretical) landings from MRFSS (antiquated system)...shows we went over in 2013 which would have been deducted from 2014...



so, drilling down and trying to compare apples to apples is kind of tough, unless you read all these management plans and amendments, and pull information from multiple sources (which I have not done to date)...plus, with the lag in reporting and data compilation, and then add on the weird season from last year, it will be a while before we see what is actually going on...

in the least, while it shows up getting a higher percentage (6% vs. the old 4%), they're obviously giving us less fish with this new deal...I just can't pull those numbers out of a hat right now...
snookered


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## hilton (Jan 28, 2008)

Not to mention the Fedsâ€™ overstepping their Constitutional authority by deducting state water landings from the federal quota - they subtracted 81% of our federal quota due to state water landings last year. 

Recreational TAC = 49% less 20% buffer x 57.3% private rec portion courtesy of Sector Separation then the 81% state water landings deduction and we are looking at way less than 5% of the federal quota. And Texas private recs are a small % of that.


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## Snookered (Jun 16, 2009)

hilton said:


> Not to mention the Fedsâ€™ overstepping their Constitutional authority by deducting state water landings from the federal quota - they subtracted 81% of our federal quota due to state water landings last year.
> 
> Recreational TAC = 49% less 20% buffer x 57.3% private rec portion courtesy of Sector Separation then the 81% state water landings deduction and we are looking at way less than 5% of the federal quota. And Texas private recs are a small % of that.


exactly, thanks Tom...

despite the following graphic that shows that Alabama's artificial reef system and Texas's coast have the lions share of red snapper, we're still only allowed to land 6%?



somethings not right, not right at all....
snookered


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