# Well known outfitter fined for baited dove field?



## kinja (May 21, 2004)

I've had a couple of people ask me if I knew details about a well known outfitter southwest of Houston getting caught/and or fined for a baited field. I have no knowledge of said event and treat it as a baseless rumor unless factually verified.

Just wondering if there is any truth to it? No names requested please nor given by me.

A few years ago we had an ag field in La Salle, county shut down by the feds as a baited field when in fact it was normal farming practice. No one was ticketed and in fact the jackwads told us a couple of days later to resume hunting. LEO mistakes happen. So, not casting aspersions just looking for facts, not rumor.


----------



## GooseCommanderozz (Feb 17, 2012)

I also possibly heard something about this? I didnâ€™t hear a name but I heard there was a flooded corn field that was not harvested and partially plowed in places, and I also heard there were citations written. Not sure if we are talking about the same thing or not.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Gulfgoose (Sep 25, 2017)

I heard a rumor too but not sure on the validity.


----------



## DCUnger (Jul 25, 2012)

Any Idea when this may or could have happened, it should be in the "Game Warden Field Notes" online.

If it's online it has to be true!


----------



## kinja (May 21, 2004)

Matagorda county generally. Of the two, one inquiry was a friend who wants to book them for a hunt/fish but has to make sure the group is squeaky clean. Suggested he call one of the ownership. Glad to hear no confirmation.


----------



## tpool (Aug 21, 2005)

Not to derail the thread (I have no info), but if I booked a hunt with an outfitter, and he had baited the field, can I be ticketed for hunting the field? If I could, what happens when I get there before/at daylight and cannot tell it's baited? What if I'm rookie-dove-hunter-guy and don't know the difference anyways?


Thanks,
T-BONE
(tpool)


----------



## kweber (Sep 20, 2005)

tpool said:


> Not to derail the thread (I have no info), but if I booked a hunt with an outfitter, and he had baited the field, can I be ticketed for hunting the field? If I could, what happens when I get there before/at daylight and cannot tell it's baited? What if I'm rookie-dove-hunter-guy and don't know the difference anyways?
> 
> Thanks,
> T-BONE
> (tpool)


everyone present get wrote-up


----------



## DUKFVR2 (Sep 12, 2018)

tpool said:


> Not to derail the thread (I have no info), but if I booked a hunt with an outfitter, and he had baited the field, can I be ticketed for hunting the field? If I could, what happens when I get there before/at daylight and cannot tell it's baited? What if I'm rookie-dove-hunter-guy and don't know the difference anyways?
> 
> Thanks,
> T-BONE
> (tpool)


Along with tickets for hunting over bait, they will take birds & more than likely your guns till trial.


----------



## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

T-bone, Ignorance of the law is no excuse. But I do get the point about before daylight, etc. If there is any question, just ask him. If he lies, well you will still get a ticket, but may be able to recover costs in small claims.


----------



## daddyeaux (Nov 18, 2007)

I would have to disagree with this. I would think since you were put there by an outfitter, they would get the fine. You would be kicked out of the field and they would take your birds. But I'm no jr. warden.


----------



## tpool (Aug 21, 2005)

I agree RBII that ignorance of the law is no excuse (and I know that baiting is illegal but in my example I as the customer was not aware there was bait), but I also don't expect going on a guided offshore trip that the Cap'n would have illegal bait on board (and I would not know it until we pulled up to the fishing grounds - hence too late). But I do see your point. I'm sure everyone gets ticketed and you'll have your day in court to tell the judge you were a paying customer placed on that field..


T-BONE


----------



## jetbuilt (May 4, 2010)

The laws regarding bait for game birds are easy to find in the outdoor annual or online. Once the sun comes up and you observe the field, there is no longer an excuse in my humble opinion. I'd rather try to get my money back from a shady guide than deal with the legal system, but I realize I may be alone in that thinking.


----------



## MARK MACALUSO (Sep 29, 2010)

Its easy if you hunted over a baited area and where not aware you still hunted over a baited area. If you are within a certain yardage of that baited field and you hunted not knowing the field is baited and birds are crossing that field you are hunting to get to the baited field. You are liable and getting fined. Ask me how I know ? Been there and done that. Farmer dumped Milo in a reservoir that had bugs in the Milo (Thank god the farmer showed up when the game wardens were there) , We hunted a pond near the reservoir and was fined. Since the farmer had fessed up , our tickets were reduced to $136 per hunter. He was fined 20K had to clean it up and was closed up until after teal season. So, if you hunted over it , around it , or in the flyway of it, you are liable for it.


----------



## tpool (Aug 21, 2005)

That makes sense to me jetcycles! However, as someone else said, fines have been handed out to ppl hunting farmed land! And I'm no farmer, so I would not know what is considered farming and what is baited land. I guess if it's loose on the ground and not still on the stalk then it's bait.


After I typed this I went and read the annual, and the bottom line from that page is this... "Hunters are responsible for knowing whether an area is baited or not." It also outlines what baited field is and what's not. After reading that I could probably figure out the difference... Good discussion!!!


T-BONE


----------



## Jamie (Aug 2, 2011)

I know of specific instances where day hunters unknowingly hunted a field baited by the landowner (and they hunted in the morning so they arrived to the field while Iâ€™d was still dark)

Every hunter was INITIALLY given a ticket

Game warden during further investgation determined the facts

And dismissed all the tickets given to the hunters

And ticketed the landowner


----------



## Jamie (Aug 2, 2011)

And I disagree with some of the posts here

There are scenarios where an average dove hunt can not reasonably come to the opinion that a field is baited


----------



## DA REEL DADDY (Jun 7, 2005)

They all got the rule book when they signed up. I say throw them in jail and tow their cars! 

Lol joking.


Man some of those rules can be confusing for one time or rookie hunters.

Not to be derailing this thread, but you got quail coming into your deer feeder. You blast them with a shotgun that you bring to the stand with you. That is illegal too, is it not?


----------



## Hayniedude24 (Jun 15, 2016)

I donâ€™t think so, theyâ€™re not migratory. As long as the take flight is thinl okay.


----------



## DA REEL DADDY (Jun 7, 2005)

Texashookset said:


> I donâ€™t think so, theyâ€™re not migratory. As long as the take flight is thinl okay.


Okay thanks hookset.

Oh yeah, most take flight, when they here that 870 rack.


----------



## batmaninja (Jul 15, 2010)

You can bait, hunt out of vehicles, 5 shots in your gun, as long as you arent hunting migratory birds. 

But you have to be pretty made at them cute little quail birds to take a shotgun into the deer blind.


----------



## Hayniedude24 (Jun 15, 2016)

Lol


----------



## DCUnger (Jul 25, 2012)

batmaninja said:


> You can bait, hunt out of vehicles, 5 shots in your gun, as long as you arent hunting migratory birds.
> 
> But you have to be pretty made at them cute little quail birds to take a shotgun into the deer blind.


*You have to have a really tight choke...*


----------



## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

> I would have to disagree with this. I would think since you were put there by an outfitter, they would get the fine. You would be kicked out of the field and they would take your birds. But I'm no jr. warden.


Oh you'll be kicked out of the field and you'll receive a citation. It happened to my group years ago. Outfitter put us there and we were slaying the dove. Game warden came by to check limits and guns and saw some corn on the ground and then started walking the field. Seems the outfitter had the land owner spread corn all over the field.

We all got a ticket and we picked our shotguns up from the JP when we paid the fines. I don't know what happened to the outfitter if anything but we gave his name to the Warde. He never came back after we had paid him and he led us to the field that morning.

TH


----------



## bigfishtx (Jul 17, 2007)

How does the law work with baiting a field? If I feed weaned calves in a pen and doves come in for the scraps, is that considered baiting?


----------



## [email protected] (May 24, 2004)

bigfish - Best to check with the local wardens, seems that interpretation varies. Buddy got run off for hunting in a pasture where the landowner had several round bale feeders the cows were hitting daily. Of course there is always a bit of seed scattered around and the doves had found it. GW called it baited. No tickets issued but they were told to leave.


----------



## Jamie (Aug 2, 2011)

Federal baiting laws are still poorly written, after they tried to rewrite them a decade ago

More importantly, they are poorly enforced with wardens writing citations that defy any sensible interpretation 

For example, I can grow milo, millet, peredovic sunflowers for the sole purpose of attracting doves. I can even shed the crop.

Note, federal/state baiting laws differ between doves and waterfowl with waterfowl ones having a much more rigorous definition 

Given that, why do wardens continually ticket hunters that had no earthly idea a field meets that specific wardenâ€™s definition of baiting


----------



## Jamie (Aug 2, 2011)

Hereâ€™s a perfect example

I previously owned a 3,000 acre ranch in south Texas

We didnâ€™t use corn feeders...weâ€™d just corn the road right in front of each blind. Itâ€™s a common practice 

We were MLD so, weâ€™d begin running corn routes each day starting around Sept 1st

Typically the deer would come immediately and clean up the corn. So, you could drive the roads 30 minutes later and â€œmaybeâ€ count 30-40 doves total feeding on corn

Meanwhile, I would have a 200 acre native sunflower field with thousands of doves feeding all the way at the other end of the ranch

Clearly, the doves are being attracted by the sunflowers

But there are wardens that would consider that ranch â€œbaitedâ€ because of the minuscule amount of road corn we put out

We never got a ticket because most wardens in that county understood road corn

But I have heard of warden issuing citations for that specific scenario 

Which is insane


----------



## Whitecrow (May 26, 2004)

Jamie said:


> Given that, why do wardens continually ticket hunters that had no earthly idea a field meets that specific wardenâ€™s definition of baiting


I'm guessing it's because no living (or dead) game warden has ever encountered a person that is knowingly hunting over a baited field, or will admit to it. 
Warden: "This field is baited. You're getting a ticket"
Hunter: "I didn't know it was baited"
Warden: "Oh, ok. Sorry...ya'll have a nice day".
Not.


----------



## BigTim (Dec 3, 2006)

bigfishtx said:


> How does the law work with baiting a field? If I feed weaned calves in a pen and doves come in for the scraps, is that considered baiting?


TPW Outdor Annual - "Other activities that may prove attractive to doves for hunting include the "hogging" of fields or the feeding of livestock in an enclosed feed lot. The handling of grain and feeding of livestock are normal agricultural operations. Accordingly, it is permissible to hunt doves in livestock feeding or grain handling and storage areas. It is, however, imperative to remember that dove hunting in those situations is acceptable only when the feed requirements of the livestock are met and the area is not deliberately supplemented with additional feed, grain, or salt."


----------



## bigfishtx (Jul 17, 2007)

BigTim said:


> TPW Outdor Annual - "Other activities that may prove attractive to doves for hunting include the "hogging" of fields or the feeding of livestock in an enclosed feed lot. The handling of grain and feeding of livestock are normal agricultural operations. Accordingly, it is permissible to hunt doves in livestock feeding or grain handling and storage areas. It is, however, imperative to remember that dove hunting in those situations is acceptable only when the feed requirements of the livestock are met and the area is not deliberately supplemented with additional feed, grain, or salt."


Thank you sir! I know every afternoon when I feed I see LOTS of doves, not only because of the leftover grain on the ground, but, it also has big Mesquite trees and some gravel which the doves like to hit. May just have to pop a couple sometime.


----------



## kweber (Sep 20, 2005)

gravel, grit and salt set to attract wildfowl is also considered baiting if done un-naturally...
so a gravel-pit is OK but dumping sand/grit is not...


----------



## daddyeaux (Nov 18, 2007)

Did anyone ever get to the bottom of this or is it still just a rumor?


----------



## huntmaster58 (Oct 1, 2008)

I duck hunted with an outfitter and the game wardens came in on us. Told us to stop shooting and then pulled the guide to the side. They confiscated the birds but not our guns. The guides gun was taken. They told us they knew he baited the pond but had to catch him on it. He admitted to them so he was the only one fined. I asked if he did not admitted that we knew nothing what would happen. He said I would have given yall some time with him to convince him to do it. If not yall would go to court and try to prove your innocence to the judge. It really depends on the GW to make a "field decision"


----------



## daddyeaux (Nov 18, 2007)

Thanks for the info. I hope it is not an outfitter that I know.


----------

