# Flounder - game fish



## Herb Burnwell (May 31, 2009)

A question asked last night by some one in attendance was "are you going to make flounder a game fish?" to the tpwd officials. They responded that it was an option, but not something that was being considered now... 

So i am asking you guys, would you like to see flounder protected as a game fish just as trout and redfish?




Sent with one hand while catching fish with the other...


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## JFolm (Apr 22, 2012)

As long as they allow gigging still.


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## Navi (Jun 2, 2009)

What would be the benefit of making it a game fish? Legitimate question, not being a smart ***, for once


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## Herb Burnwell (May 31, 2009)

For one it would not be able to be gigged, just as trout and redfish.



Sent with one hand while catching fish with the other...


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## Herb Burnwell (May 31, 2009)

I would like to think that they would also start re-allocating funds that are spent on redfish and trout breeding and restocking programs (since the trout and reds are not in any danger at the moment) and use that money to help build the flounder breeding and restocking program now that they have a better grasp of how to now reproduce the flounder in controlled settings at a better success rate. 


Sent with one hand while catching fish with the other...


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## Category6 (Nov 21, 2007)

no, it's just an end around to kill a long tradition


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## El First Draw (Dec 11, 2012)

I believe a game fish can not be harvested for commercial sale, not sure about the no gigging, I would like to see no commercial sale of flounder, but not do away with gigging.


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## jdeleon (May 17, 2012)

I just wish they put stop to the gigging!!!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## makoclay (May 25, 2004)

El First Draw said:


> I believe a game fish can not be harvested for commercial sale, not sure about the no gigging, I would like to see no commercial sale of flounder, but not do away with gigging.


I agree.


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## cva34 (Dec 22, 2008)

*Flounder Game Fish*

I say make them a Game Fish..Thats the way they got Trout and Redfish turned around..I used to Gig lots and enjoyed it But if we gota do away with it to save the Flounder I'm for it


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## glennkoks (Jun 24, 2009)

In short NO! First you would not be able to gig them. In addition you increase the regulatory paperwork and buerocratic red tape for every restaurant, fish market and grocery store in the state. And let's face it if you want a redfish or trout you can still run right down to the market and buy all you want from another state.

If anyone thinks Parks and Wildlife has the manpower to check paperwork on every place selling a flounder I have a bridge I want to sell you.

We don't need more meaningless and non effective regulation


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## indaskinny (May 25, 2009)

No.


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## glennkoks (Jun 24, 2009)

I am kind of amazed at all these people who support this nonsense and yet still call themselves "conservative"


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## glennkoks (Jun 24, 2009)

"Save the flounder"? Are you serious? I could of sworn I heard Texas parks and wildlife say the flounder populations are ok?

You want to save the flounder chain yourself across the road entering seawolf park in November!


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## captainharvey (Mar 1, 2011)

Recreational Gigging efforts only account for 1/3 on recreational hook and line efforts. Gigging is not the problem! And as stated before, the flounder population is on the rise since '09 regulations. 

You want to make a bigger difference in our current regs? Close Nov. for hook and line and giggers alike.


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## Herb Burnwell (May 31, 2009)

glennkoks said:


> "Save the flounder"? Are you serious? I could of sworn I heard Texas parks and wildlife say the flounder populations are ok?
> 
> You want to save the flounder chain yourself across the road entering seawolf park in November!


The flounder population is ok according to the tpwd at the scope meeting. It was a question asked by someone in attendance of that meeting. We aren't trying to "save the flounder", just want to make sure there is enough that my grand kids get a chance to catch one. Seawolf parking isn't the only place that flounder are caught en mass on the annual run...

Just thought i would ask the brain trusts opinion on the subject...

Sent with one hand while catching fish with the other...


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## glennkoks (Jun 24, 2009)

Teamcgr,

I was referring to post 10 above


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## Category6 (Nov 21, 2007)

make them a tame fish, not a game fish. take the commercial pressure off of them.


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## Herb Burnwell (May 31, 2009)

glennkoks said:


> Teamcgr,
> 
> I was referring to post 10 above


Sorry i got butt hurt...i should have read the other comments alittle better...

Sent with one hand while catching fish with the other...


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## glennkoks (Jun 24, 2009)

Teamcgr,

No worries. I get a little worked up when I read comments like that


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## JFolm (Apr 22, 2012)

jdeleon said:


> I just wish they put stop to the gigging!!!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Why?


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## spurgersalty (Jun 29, 2010)

JFolm said:


> Why?


Because he's a misinformed idiot content with parroting shortsighted nonfactual arguments Jeremy......why else? And this is from a guy that has never gigged a flounder in his LIFE!!!!!


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## hookset4 (Nov 8, 2004)

TeamCGR said:


> A question asked last night by some one in attendance was "are you going to make flounder a game fish?" to the tpwd officials. They responded that it was an option, but not something that was being considered now...
> 
> So i am asking you guys, would you like to see flounder protected as a game fish just as trout and redfish?
> 
> Sent with one hand while catching fish with the other...


I would LOVE to see flounder given game fish status. Have heard dedicated flounder fishermen (rod and reel) suggest this for years but old habits (gigging) die hard. As stated, TPWD isn't looking at doing this at the moment.

-hook


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## JFolm (Apr 22, 2012)

spurgersalty said:


> Because he's a misinformed idiot content with parroting shortsighted nonfactual arguments Jeremy......why else? And this is from a guy that has never gigged a flounder in his LIFE!!!!!


I personally think gigging is more challenging than rod and reel. It may be different if I had a floundering boat but it takes a long while to cover an area while wading and flounder aren't always stacked up on the Shallows. Someone that has never experienced that may believe that any flat with 1' of water will guarantee a limit but thats far from true. As a matter of fact I haven't gotten my limit while gigging.

I know that guides have spent time locating and understanding the sport so it may seem effortless for them to harvest a substantial amount of fish. Sure I could say I don't want guides to be able to gig but its perfectly legal.


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## Kyle 1974 (May 10, 2006)

glennkoks said:


> "Save the flounder"? Are you serious? I could of sworn I heard Texas parks and wildlife say the flounder populations are ok?
> 
> You want to save the flounder chain yourself across the road entering seawolf park in November!


Look Glenny. I know that daddy was a Commercial fisherman, but what's your hang up trying to guarantee flounder as a commercially fished species going forward? Because that's the way it was?

Maybe you're right though. Nostalgia and all that ****. He'll I'm starting to see things your way... What say we make a push for gill netters to come back in the bays! Those were the good ol days! Right?


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## I Fall In (Sep 18, 2011)

hookset4 said:


> I would LOVE to see flounder given game fish status. Have heard dedicated flounder fishermen (rod and reel) suggest this for years but old habits (gigging) die hard. As stated, TPWD isn't looking at doing this at the moment.
> 
> -hook


 So rod and reel fishermen are dedicated and the giggers just have a habit? 
Limits are limits regardless of how you get them. All the flounder that I didn't gig because they were too small survived, can anyone say the same about undersized flounder hooked and released ?


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## Herb Burnwell (May 31, 2009)

Funny thing, tpwd doesn't count numbers takin from the night time gigging in there studies of flounder population. They only count there regular gill net studies and fish counts at the boat ramps to count there numbers and projections of flounder... 

I dont wAnt to see anybody's gigging rights takin away, but if sacrificing another month, say december to the current no gigging and only keeping two fish in november regs to help of overall fish population i wouldn't mind that. 

But if they make no chAnges i am ok with that also. I think the current regs have helped tremendously to ensure we have a healthy flounder population going forward. 


Sent with one hand while catching fish with the other...


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## yakamac (Jan 24, 2010)

Hell yes it should be a gamefish


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## captainharvey (Mar 1, 2011)

It's true, gigging from a boat makes things easier. Cover more ground, move to different spots quickly, less fatigue, etc. But, in defense, if it is too windy, the boat stays at home. If the wind switches hard, you stay home or force a murky water night, if the tide is out too far to get where you want, or the tides are too high, heavy rains causing runoff, a school of mullet, redfish, or dolphins can work the shore right in front of you causing bad visibility, flounder aren't always on protected, clear, easy to get to shorelines, etc., etc, etc. 
I have burned tons of fuel, spent countless hours,( sometimes with clients on board) looking for the elusive flat fish. It has taken years of experience, a lot of trial and error, advise from others for me to get where I am now. And I still get stumped and confused as to where they might have been on the last trip. 
Fisherman with rods and reels don't need clear, calm protected water to catch flounder. You don't have to see a flounder to cast into a good area. They don't have to wait for dark either. Rod and reel can fish for flounder 24hrs a day all year long. 

I'm not against rod and reel fishing for flounder, the fisherman, or the practice. But anyone that thinks gigging is easy or that we should be banned, does rub me wrong. 
I give out a lot of advise on my trips and my returning customers that have paid attention, have seen me be right and have seen Mother Nature give me the cold shoulder too. I also share my knowledge with other giggers that come in to the dock late at night after they have struggled to find just a few. 
Not all giggers or gigging boats will find fish.
I challenge those against gigging, to give it a try, if you don't know enough about what it takes to find flounder on any given night, you might gain a new respect after seeing its not as easy as some suggest.


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## Dipsay (Apr 28, 2006)

captainharvey said:


> It's true, gigging from a boat makes things easier. Cover more ground, move to different spots quickly, less fatigue, etc. But, in defense, if it is too windy, the boat stays at home. If the wind switches hard, you stay home or force a murky water night, if the tide is out too far to get where you want, or the tides are too high, heavy rains causing runoff, a school of mullet, redfish, or dolphins can work the shore right in front of you causing bad visibility, flounder aren't always on protected, clear, easy to get to shorelines, etc., etc, etc.
> I have burned tons of fuel, spent countless hours,( sometimes with clients on board) looking for the elusive flat fish. It has taken years of experience, a lot of trial and error, advise from others for me to get where I am now. And I still get stumped and confused as to where they might have been on the last trip.
> Fisherman with rods and reels don't need clear, calm protected water to catch flounder. You don't have to see a flounder to cast into a good area. They don't have to wait for dark either. Rod and reel can fish for flounder 24hrs a day all year long.
> 
> ...


 X2, couldnt have said it any better...Dip


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## GordaGiggin (May 8, 2012)

captainharvey said:


> It's true, gigging from a boat makes things easier. Cover more ground, move to different spots quickly, less fatigue, etc. But, in defense, if it is too windy, the boat stays at home. If the wind switches hard, you stay home or force a murky water night, if the tide is out too far to get where you want, or the tides are too high, heavy rains causing runoff, a school of mullet, redfish, or dolphins can work the shore right in front of you causing bad visibility, flounder aren't always on protected, clear, easy to get to shorelines, etc., etc, etc.
> 
> I have burned tons of fuel, spent countless hours,( sometimes with clients on board) looking for the elusive flat fish. It has taken years of experience, a lot of trial and error, advise from others for me to get where I am now. And I still get stumped and confused as to where they might have been on the last trip.
> 
> ...


Agreed!


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## Smackdaddy53 (Nov 4, 2011)

El First Draw said:


> I believe a game fish can not be harvested for commercial sale, not sure about the no gigging, I would like to see no commercial sale of flounder, but not do away with gigging.


This
To you guys that think we have to "put an end" to gigging to save flounder you are sadly mistaken. Don't be a knucklehead! A commercial gigger can take 30 flounder a night! SIX TIMES the bag limit of the average gigger. Tell me that does not hurt the population when there are two or three 30 flounder limits taken on some boats each night. They also have made a habit out of running over flounder guides flats to try to claim their territory. Chicken**** if you ask me!

http://www.fishingscout.com/scouts/SmackDaddy


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## chickenboy (May 5, 2008)

I don't get it. Sorry. There are more flounder out there now than ever before. They will be stacked up come May-August. Then here comes the run.


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## tailin_reds (Mar 24, 2010)

captainharvey said:


> It's true, gigging from a boat makes things easier. Cover more ground, move to different spots quickly, less fatigue, etc. But, in defense, if it is too windy, the boat stays at home. If the wind switches hard, you stay home or force a murky water night, if the tide is out too far to get where you want, or the tides are too high, heavy rains causing runoff, a school of mullet, redfish, or dolphins can work the shore right in front of you causing bad visibility, flounder aren't always on protected, clear, easy to get to shorelines, etc., etc, etc.
> I have burned tons of fuel, spent countless hours,( sometimes with clients on board) looking for the elusive flat fish. It has taken years of experience, a lot of trial and error, advise from others for me to get where I am now. And I still get stumped and confused as to where they might have been on the last trip.
> Fisherman with rods and reels don't need clear, calm protected water to catch flounder. You don't have to see a flounder to cast into a good area. They don't have to wait for dark either. Rod and reel can fish for flounder 24hrs a day all year long.
> 
> ...


Agreed. As you have said before I also agree with shutting down both giggers and the rod and reel guys in the closed months.


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## The Last Mango (Jan 31, 2010)

Kyle 1974 said:


> Look Glenny. I know that daddy was a Commercial fisherman, but what's your hang up trying to guarantee flounder as a commercially fished species going forward? Because that's the way it was?
> 
> Maybe you're right though. Nostalgia and all that ****. He'll I'm starting to see things your way... What say we make a push for gill netters to come back in the bays! Those were the good ol days! Right?


Outstanding


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## glennkoks (Jun 24, 2009)

Kyle 1974 said:


> Look Glenny. I know that daddy was a Commercial fisherman, but what's your hang up trying to guarantee flounder as a commercially fished species going forward? Because that's the way it was?
> 
> Maybe you're right though. Nostalgia and all that ****. He'll I'm starting to see things your way... What say we make a push for gill netters to come back in the bays! Those were the good ol days! Right?


Kyle,

I suspect you could not catch a fish in a bathtub and no amount of "book reading", regulation or beurocratic red tape is going to change that. Some people just don't have the talent.

Have you tried golf?


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## glennkoks (Jun 24, 2009)

Kyle, 

Add this to your must read list before trying to run everyone else off the bays for catching "your" fish:


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## troutomatic1488 (Jun 18, 2006)

It is all about divide and conquer in 20 years when fishing is outlawed everyone will be standing around saying I didn't see that coming.


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## glennkoks (Jun 24, 2009)

TROUTOMATIC said:


> It is all about divide and conquer in 20 years when fishing is outlawed everyone will be standing around saying I didn't see that coming.


X2


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## nicklas1976 (Apr 23, 2013)

glennkoks said:


> Kyle,
> 
> I suspect you could not catch a fish in a bathtub and no amount of "book reading", regulation or beurocratic red tape is going to change that. Some people just don't have the talent.
> 
> Have you tried golf?


That is not true, Kyle caught one flounder limit in 2013.


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## Kyle 1974 (May 10, 2006)

TROUTOMATIC said:


> It is all about divide and conquer in 20 years when fishing is outlawed everyone will be standing around saying I didn't see that coming.


you mean similar to the red snapper industry? where recreational guys got about two weeks last year, and the commercial guys bang it out all year long until they got their "estimated quota"?


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## Blueshoes (Jan 24, 2013)

so, all im confused about is why the definition of gamefish isnt a fish that has a minimum length requirement or slot size. 


i need CLARIFICATION

i have read the entire page concerning bait on the TPWD website.

ARE FLOUNDER LEGAL TO USE AS BAIT? since they are NOT a game fish and thus NOT listed under the list of gamefish for the state..... 

dont dare try to BBQ me over that question either...


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## gater (May 25, 2004)

*Game fish status*

Even though a fish can have game fish status and still be caught commercially the chances of that happening with flounder is slim. There are many options that could be used but I don't think are needed right now, as it appears the current regulations are working.

Closing Both November and December to gigging could be an option or cutting the commercial limit in 1/2 to 15. I don't want to see gigging go away either commercially or recreationally and unlike other fisheries there is not an ugly competition between the two groups.

The biggest culprit in the declining past of the flounder is hands down commercial shrimping. Today we 2/3's less bay shrimpers than in the past and IMHO opinion is the single most reason for the flounder fishery holding it's own or even getting better. If you never spent time on a bay shrimp boat you would be shocked at the number of flounder killed annually as by catch.

Even though in November when the limit is two I heard many stories of boats double and triple dipping, rod and reel fishing doesn't hurt the fishery and IMHO I don't think the commercial gigging hurts as much as people think. I think things should be left alone at least for a few more years and then reevaluated.


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## The Last Mango (Jan 31, 2010)

Blueshoes said:


> so, all im confused about is why the definition of gamefish isnt a fish that has a minimum length requirement or slot size.
> 
> i need CLARIFICATION
> 
> ...





gater said:


> Even though a fish can have game fish status and still be caught commercially the chances of that happening with flounder is slim. There are many options that could be used but I don't think are needed right now, as it appears the current regulations are working.
> 
> Closing Both November and December to gigging could be an option or cutting the commercial limit in 1/2 to 15. I don't want to see gigging go away either commercially or recreationally and unlike other fisheries there is not an ugly competition between the two groups.
> 
> ...


I'm sick and tired of shrimpers getting the blame, do you even know how many species of flounder swim in our bay, can you destinguish the difference?
How many different species of croaker live in our bays?
What is the life cycle of white shrimp?
How many species of shrimp are in Texas waters? 
How many states have the indigenous Pacific oyster?
Do triple tail spawn inshore or offshore or somewhere else?
Does the blue crab shed its carapace ever 7 days with a moon change?
At what temperature do oysters start reproducing?
What is the average salinity ppm input bays?
Can you tell the difference between a TP&W stocked trout?
What side of a reef grows better oysters?
What shore birds only feed on an out going tide?
Why do mullet school in open waters?

Unless you know what your talking about , please don't commit on my livelihood


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## gater (May 25, 2004)

*Shrimping*



The Last Mango said:


> I'm sick and tired of shrimpers getting the blame, do you even know how many species of flounder swim in our bay, can you destinguish the difference?
> How many different species of croaker live in our bays?
> What is the life cycle of white shrimp?
> How many species of shrimp are in Texas waters?
> ...


A little touchy, we'll I do know what I am talking about, and if your a shrimper you know exactly what I am talking about . If you don't think it has had an effect on both flounder and croaker your full it. There about 20-25 species of flounder in Texas but the only one that is effected is the one you catch in your nets and that is the southern flounder which makes up about 95% of the flounder in Texas.


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## The Last Mango (Jan 31, 2010)

gater said:


> A little touchy, we'll I do know what I am talking about, and if your a shrimper you know exactly what I am talking about . If you don't think it has had an effect on both flounder and croaker your full it. There about 20-25 species of flounder in Texas but the only one that is effected is the one you catch in your nets and that is the southern flounder which makes up about 95% of the flounder in Texas.


Semantics


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## SaltyRichard (Jan 10, 2014)

captainharvey said:


> It's true, gigging from a boat makes things easier. Cover more ground, move to different spots quickly, less fatigue, etc. But, in defense, if it is too windy, the boat stays at home. If the wind switches hard, you stay home or force a murky water night, if the tide is out too far to get where you want, or the tides are too high, heavy rains causing runoff, a school of mullet, redfish, or dolphins can work the shore right in front of you causing bad visibility, flounder aren't always on protected, clear, easy to get to shorelines, etc., etc, etc.
> I have burned tons of fuel, spent countless hours,( sometimes with clients on board) looking for the elusive flat fish. It has taken years of experience, a lot of trial and error, advise from others for me to get where I am now. And I still get stumped and confused as to where they might have been on the last trip.
> Fisherman with rods and reels don't need clear, calm protected water to catch flounder. You don't have to see a flounder to cast into a good area. They don't have to wait for dark either. Rod and reel can fish for flounder 24hrs a day all year long.
> 
> ...


I'm all for gigging, but let's not make it more complicated than it is. When the winds blowing in your favor you get out on the shoreline and stab fish. Pretty simple, doesn't take years of experience...


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## flounder daddy (Mar 22, 2012)

I give up. Im going to continue to do what I can for flounder with the hatchery by donating and learning, and gig/fish responsibly. Im not eating anything this year smaller than 16" for flounder. We landed 18 slot fish this morning (reds, trout, drum). We kept 2 redfish total. It aint about hauling meat, more like having a good time. I keep what I need, end of story.


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## flounder daddy (Mar 22, 2012)

SaltyRichard said:


> I'm all for gigging, but let's not make it more complicated than it is. When the winds blowing in your favor you get out on the shoreline and stab fish. Pretty simple, doesn't take years of experience...


lol. I like how you make it easy breezy sounding. I know what Capt.Harvey is talking about. A strong current with ZERO wind can ruin visibility. The actual "act" of gigging, yeah thats not rocket science. Its just like rod n reel. 95% of the time if you put something in front of a fishes mouth, they will eat it. Its like sightcasting reds! Hell, people have caught them with a jalapeno pepper! Like anything else in fishing, "to catch fish, you must first find fish!" Commercial or rec. I personally would rather catch a big doormat on rod n reel, its more of a challenge with the waiting to set the hook, fighting, etc.. More fun as well. But im not against gigging. Shrimp boats, I dont know enough about them and their by-catch personally to make any judgements, so I will refrain from them.


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## texasjellyfish (Jan 23, 2006)

With all the Fishing Reports that have been showing all the stabbed fish on the internet will have an effect on new Laws being made regarding flounder and gigging , Gigging is not that hard I think we have limited out every nite we go , since limits where imposed , one thing we have noticed is there are a bunch more gig boats in the bay at night

Yes bay shrimping just about wiped out the flounder years ago, everywhere you looked you saw a shrimp boat and most where pulling oversized nets , Today not as many shrimpers out there as many have sold back their license to pay bills

Flounder seem to be fine , we have had no problem getting them so no changes to the current regulations would be nice, but decisions have already been made.


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## glennkoks (Jun 24, 2009)

According to the TPWD the average recreational catch over the last 30 years (approx) is 166,000 pounds. The last year provided was slightly better than average.

So if the populations are well within their normal range if not above average why all the noise. 

It's not always accurate and there are lots of ways to "interpret" data but one could say 30 years of regulation changes have done exactly ZERO for flounder populations. They are well within the average of what they have been since record keeping began.


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## SpeckReds (Sep 10, 2005)

Make Flounder game fish? NO


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## The Last Mango (Jan 31, 2010)

texasjellyfish said:


> With all the Fishing Reports that have been showing all the stabbed fish on the internet will have an effect on new Laws being made regarding flounder and gigging , Gigging is not that hard I think we have limited out every nite we go , since limits where imposed , one thing we have noticed is there are a bunch more gig boats in the bay at night
> 
> Yes bay shrimping just about wiped out the flounder years ago, everywhere you looked you saw a shrimp boat and most where pulling oversized nets , Today not as many shrimpers out there as many have sold back their license to pay bills
> 
> Flounder seem to be fine , we have had no problem getting them so no changes to the current regulations would be nice, but decisions have already been made.


Another experts opinion


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## Bocephus (May 30, 2008)




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## texasjellyfish (Jan 23, 2006)

Mango


No expert here no it all, however I have probably dumped more brownies on my deck than you. Matter of fact I pulled one of Frank Burbanks first prototype 65` Mongoose shrimp trawls years ago, afterwards the Mongoose became real popular, you ever drag one??


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## Trouthappy (Jun 12, 2008)

I know the guides at South Padre, years ago, were sickened that so many big flounder, probably thousands of them, could be landed by one commercial boat in one year. Lots of 6-pounders, they said. Tournament winning fish, too. Just to be dumped at the nearest fish market like gar or black drum. I know Billy in POC used to get 100 flounder on some nights, out there by himself. He went out in bad weather and wind, too. Some of those commercial guys are pretty talented at gigging. They can usually find a protected shoreline with clear water.


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## Kyle 1974 (May 10, 2006)

I would just like to know when modern commercial fishing has ever made any single fishery better. Anywhere.


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## Blueshoes (Jan 24, 2013)

AGREED. it takes a long time to recover from when commercial fisherman get into a stock. Im sorry, whoever is involved in commercial fishing, I know your families may have been in it a while and all of that, but days are changing, we cant keep taking what we have been in decades past. I do support people trying to make a living and provide for their families but if it comes down to running a population in the ground (using generic fish stock here- NOT talking about our flounder or other game fish here) and feeding a few peoples families, i gotta side with the fish on this one.....

please dont call me out on what i know or dont know mango, im just simply looking for an answer haha.

flounder, legal? illegal as bait? i personally have seen nothing that would make it illegal but eeeeeeeverybody says it isssss.


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## BullyARed (Jun 19, 2010)

The chart tells me lowering the limit reducing the catch!:headknock


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## glennkoks (Jun 24, 2009)

BullyARed said:


> The chart tells me lowering the limit reducing the catch!:headknock


It tells me that countless new regulations, running commercial fishermen off the water, and reducing the shrimp licenses has done:

Drumroll

NOTHING, at least it does not show up in the "numbers".


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## Kyle 1974 (May 10, 2006)

or, it could tell you that commercial fisherman wrecked the fishery in the 80's, and it never recovered.


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## Blueshoes (Jan 24, 2013)

its just so hard to see everything. We all wish and hope that when we eliminate what we think the cause it that the next few years after will soar with new fish but there are just so many factors that go into things like this that its really difficult to see what actually is going on. 

Looking at just landings isnt really enough. Things like what percentage of fish caught are male/female, what the lengths are of the fish caught (reproduction varies with the size of the fish and reproductive output is higher for different sizes), where the fish were caught (if we catch fish at point A, they may be catching MORE fish at point B). Not to mention with the invention of things like new tackle and lures, we can harvest alot more (if the numbers are there of course). Nearly every nook and cranny they hide in is somebody's honey hole. 

idk, just throwing food for thought out there, not trying to dog anybody. It would be a simple solution if it were a direct cause/effect situation, but its not. :/


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## glennkoks (Jun 24, 2009)

Kyle 1974 said:


> or, it could tell you that commercial fisherman wrecked the fishery in the 80's, and it never recovered.


Kyle,

The only thing that has been "Wrecked" is the commercial fishing industry. We now have a 9 billion dollar seafood trade deficit in this country because of just such stupid, needless and unwaranted regulation.

If you read this maybe you will actually get 2 limits of flounder in 2014!


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## Blueshoes (Jan 24, 2013)

stop it. 

there is no reason to call each other out, we all want a resolution:

have more and bigger fish. 

we need to work TOGETHER to accomplish this, satisfying both commercial fisherman and recreational anglers. 

its VERY childish to call someone out on how good or not good of a fisherman they are, fishing is about enjoying the sport, not building an ego.


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## glennkoks (Jun 24, 2009)

Blueshoes said:


> stop it.
> 
> there is no reason to call each other out, we all want a resolution:
> 
> ...


Blueshoes,

For there to be a "resolution" there needs to be a problem. Texas parks and Wildlife has came out and said the flounder populations are fine. A glance at the data shoes the stocks are actually "above" the 30 year average. Yet some members of a particular user group want to run another user group off the water.

If someone was trying to take away your livihood or limit your access to a resource how would you feel?


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## Kyle 1974 (May 10, 2006)

glenn, just point to a single fishery that has been improved by commercial fishing. 

just one example.


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## The Last Mango (Jan 31, 2010)

texasjellyfish said:


> Mango
> 
> No expert here no it all, however I have probably dumped more brownies on my deck than you. Matter of fact I pulled one of Frank Burbanks first prototype 65` Mongoose shrimp trawls years ago, afterwards the Mongoose became real popular, you ever drag one??


Mongoose nets fish to trashy, corners work to hard and I don't like to the way the tapers are cut, I have a friend who designs our nets.


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## glennkoks (Jun 24, 2009)

Kyle,

Economies have been improved, mouths fed, jobs created by the commercial fishing industry. Any harvest recreational or commercial is not going to "improve" it.

The key is sustainabilty.


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## The Last Mango (Jan 31, 2010)

Kyle 1974 said:


> glenn, just point to a single fishery that has been improved by commercial fishing.
> 
> just one example.


Alaskan King Crab


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## Kyle 1974 (May 10, 2006)

what % of restocking programs are funded by commercial fishing? they depend on the fish... yet they do what to make sure the populations are sustainable?

at the end of the day, the only thing commercial fishing does it take, putting a fraction back into the economy per fish that recreational fishing does. and that's a fact.


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## glennkoks (Jun 24, 2009)

Kyle 1974 said:


> what % of restocking programs are funded by commercial fishing? they depend on the fish... yet they do what to make sure the populations are sustainable?
> 
> at the end of the day, the only thing commercial fishing does it take, putting a fraction back into the economy per fish that recreational fishing does. and that's a fact.


Kyle, you are either ignorant or terribly misinformed. I'm going with ignorant. Worldwide economic impact of commercial fishing is well over 240 billion dollars. This from PEW:


They found that by considering the
economic impacts of fisheries on other sectors
such as boat manufacturing or canning
industries, the total global value is approximately
$240 billion annually, as calculated
from 2003 dataâ€"nearly three times the​landed value.


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## troutomatic1488 (Jun 18, 2006)

Kyle 1974 said:


> you mean similar to the red snapper industry? where recreational guys got about two weeks last year, and the commercial guys bang it out all year long until they got their "estimated quota"?


I don't know to many recreational snapper fishermen since the limit has been reduced to 2.


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## glennkoks (Jun 24, 2009)

Kyle 1974 said:


> what % of restocking programs are funded by commercial fishing? they depend on the fish... yet they do what to make sure the populations are sustainable?
> 
> at the end of the day, the only thing commercial fishing does it take, putting a fraction back into the economy per fish that recreational fishing does. and that's a fact.


Kyle, Do you just make this stuff up? Are you just ignorant? Nationally the commercial fishery has almost twice the total economic impact. This from NOAA:

The seafood industryâ€"harvesters, seafood processors and dealers, seafood wholesalers and retailersâ€"generated $129 billion in sales impacts, $37 billion in income impacts and supported 1.2 million jobs in 2011, the most recent year included in the report. Recreational fishing generated $70 billion in sales impacts, $20 billion in income impacts, and supported 455,000 jobs in 2011. Compared to 2010, the numbers are up for all of these impacts except commercial seafood sales


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## Kyle 1974 (May 10, 2006)

What grade did you drop out of school? I said "per fish". Not "total". 


Tell some more stories about when you and daddy used to fill 18 wheeler trucks with fish. Then wonder why these discussions have to take place.

I don't GAF if this is what your dad did for a living. Times change and history repeats itself. The commercial guys in Texas only let up on a species when the law dictates that species is crashing. Then they whine about unfair treatment when they singlehanded slit their own throats with lack of common sense.


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## GordaGiggin (May 8, 2012)

Kinda like you're whining now? Go get some tissues, hug a tree or wherever else it is u do, getting all butthurt of something that none of our opinions, mine included, are gonna matter when parks and wildlife make their minds up, if they wanna take oct-dec from me they will, and I'll continue to gig the rest of the year as I have for the last 20, and you'll continue to **** and moan like you have for the past week


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## glennkoks (Jun 24, 2009)

Kyle 1974 said:


> What grade did you drop out of school? I said "per fish". Not "total".
> 
> Tell some more stories about when you and daddy used to fill 18 wheeler trucks with fish. Then wonder why these discussions have to take place.
> 
> I don't GAF if this is what your dad did for a living. Times change and history repeats itself. The commercial guys in Texas only let up on a species when the law dictates that species is crashing. Then they whine about unfair treatment when they singlehanded slit their own throats with lack of common sense.


Kyle,

With your lack of fishing skills you are clearly bringing the economic impact way up on a per fish basis being as you don't catch many. The only number that should matter is total economic impact and jobs. Yes the things that actually enable people to feed their kids, send them to college buy cars and homes.

A liberal like yourself may not understand this but people like The Last Mango and Gordagiggin make their livings on the water. Your just playing.


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## Kyle 1974 (May 10, 2006)

So you're saying they're entitled to it? We the people owe the commercial fishing industry ? Is that what daddy taught you when you were loading tractor trailer loads of fish?


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## capt.dave (Jan 3, 2007)

El First Draw said:


> I believe a game fish can not be harvested for commercial sale, not sure about the no gigging, I would like to see no commercial sale of flounder, but not do away with gigging.


I agree with this. Just do away with the commercial harvest and keep recreational gigging legal.

Just my opinion, but the numbers of recreational giggers isn't even comparable to the numbers of rod & reel fishermen. Just allow the same recreational limits for both.

Another idea, rather than doing away with the commercial harvest, just lower their limits down to the recreational limits. Wouldn't this naturally decrease the number of commericial flounder fishermen? If the limit is low enough, it wouldn't be worth the effort for people to fish for them commercially.


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## Kyle 1974 (May 10, 2006)

GordaGiggin said:


> Kinda like you're whining now? Go get some tissues, hug a tree or wherever else it is u do, getting all butthurt of something that none of our opinions, mine included, are gonna matter when parks and wildlife make their minds up, if they wanna take oct-dec from me they will, and I'll continue to gig the rest of the year as I have for the last 20, and you'll continue to **** and moan like you have for the past week


Didn't you say a while back that you just bought a finfish license a few years ago?


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## glennkoks (Jun 24, 2009)

Kyle 1974 said:


> So you're saying they're entitled to it? We the people owe the commercial fishing industry ? Is that what daddy taught you when you were loading tractor trailer loads of fish?


In addition to poor fishing skills you are also weak on economics. Since you are probably employed by the government and have never actually "worked" a day in your life this is real world functions.

My father caught fish and purchased product from other commercial fishermen. He paid them, they paid their light bill, fed their kids, paid a mortgage etc....

He in turn sold those fish to diners, wholesalers and processors. They paid him, he paid his employees and got to keep what was left.

Thats how it works when you actually produce something. No entitlements, no crying, no whining no trophy for finishing in last place.

If you want to catch more fish, I suggest you put your nose to the grindstone, spend less time online whining about other people catching fish and get after it...

The Data suggests there are more of them out then in many other years.


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## GordaGiggin (May 8, 2012)

I've gigged commercially since 2009, recreationally since I was old enough to hold a gig and lantern. While I will admit it's not my sole means of income, I am a single father and it does help me out from a monetary standpoint


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## glennkoks (Jun 24, 2009)

GordaGiggin said:


> I've gigged commercially since 2009, recreationally since I was old enough to hold a gig and lantern. While I will admit it's not my sole means of income, I am a single father and it does help me out from a monetary standpoint


Gordagiggin,

Do I know you? I spent a couple of years working in both Matagorda and East Matagorda bays. Mainly commercially crabbing but I also oystered and trotlined for drum in the winter. I know the Last Mango and a bunch of others out of matagorda.


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## Blueshoes (Jan 24, 2013)

all im saying is i want our fishery to not only be around in 40 years but to improve and grow. I dont want a mismanaged fishery to be the reason our offspring read about how galveston bay used to have flounder... or the gulf of mexico was abundant with snapper. Now, i do understand that were relying on what TPWD and the NMFS (think thats the right acronym) says as far as catches and such. 

It is just important that we stay on the same page and be understandable and REASONABLE with each other. 

I HATE politics, but its everywhere, and fishing is no exception. Whether we ultimately build more on the coast or build less, take more or take less, constrict limits or loosen them, people have to remember not to be SELFISH. 

im not pointing any fingers or referring to anybody but if it came down to ex 100 commercial fisherman ultimately plundering a population so that we spend the next 50 years recovering or not allowing that, im going to have to stand on the 'against' side. Times are changing, somebodies benefit now cannot lead to everybodies loss in the future. Losses would need to be cut in this situation.


Now, if the numbers really are right, and theres plenty of fish to go around. Then you will see me standing on the side with those who make their living harvesting them. Like said before:

SUSTAINABILITY is key. we just have to figure out if our decisions are being sustainable or not. Focus on doing that instead of bashing each other about who is a better fisherman. 


I have heard rumors for a few months about possibly closing flounder next november. Now obviously that would be very difficult to do but after what i saw during my first two flounder seasons, i am all for it. People taking more than allowed, people taking 8 in fish home.... highly against that.


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## Trouthappy (Jun 12, 2008)

GordaGiggin said:


> I've gigged commercially since 2009, recreationally since I was old enough to hold a gig and lantern. While I will admit it's not my sole means of income, I am a single father and it does help me out from a monetary standpoint


Sooo how many flounder have you gigged since 2009? Best nights? Worst nights? Favorite bay? Roughly what percent were females with eggs each autumn, assuming they had to be gilled and gutted? There must be some good stories there.


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## GordaGiggin (May 8, 2012)

As far as a number since 2009 I'd def have to go back to the books on that one, I can say that numbers of fish in east matty have improved, half or more of my trips are with buddies that aren't commercial so on those trips obviously we quit at 5 a person, but there are times I'm alone or with my dad that we get a commercial limit. This year I stuck mainly to walking east bay, as it's easier for me to drive down during the week, than drag the boat but personally I'm a fan of walking, nice to be out there with peace and quiet. As with any other type of fish sometimes they're there, sometimes they aren't.


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## GordaGiggin (May 8, 2012)

I generally prefer east Matagorda over west as west is very dependent on tide/water movement in or out, east doesn't see the drastic tidal changes west does, or at least not to the point of following it on a tide chart


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## The Last Mango (Jan 31, 2010)

It's 4:26, nobody bashed a shrimper in the last hour? Everybody hungover? What's the problem, heck I might have to blame myself


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## jampen (Oct 12, 2012)

I thought East Matty was "dead"??


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## glennkoks (Jun 24, 2009)

The Last Mango said:


> It's 4:26, nobody bashed a shrimper in the last hour? Everybody hungover? What's the problem, heck I might have to blame myself


Mango,

You are an easy target. You have to get up early in the morning and actually go to work. And if you don't catch anything you don't get paid. Most people nowadays don't understand that concept.

Many of the people commenting on here are riding on the cart instead of pulling it. They have no concept where the fish in the fish stick comes from, where the beef in the happy meal came from or how to even grow a garden.

For most of them you are just catching their fish...


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## jampen (Oct 12, 2012)

You have never met 99% of the people on here that you keep bashing.

You don't know anything about them other than what they type on a computer screen...unless you're psychic...are you psychic??

What am I thinking right now?


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## flounder daddy (Mar 22, 2012)

glennkoks said:


> Mango,
> 
> You are an easy target. You have to get up early in the morning and actually go to work. And if you don't catch anything you don't get paid. Most people nowadays don't understand that concept.
> 
> ...


lol. You couldnt be farther from the truth. Ive been working for almost 20 years, and im 29 now. I dont want to hear your BS about people not knowing *** work is. I own my own business and I work 40-50hrs a week at my day job. Just built my own house, and contribute my part to society. Ive "pulled carts" for years guy. So before you start running your gum flapper about what you "assume" about a person when you know nothing about them, id suggest keep your gum flappers mute on the subject. And no, I dont sit in a office, I use my hands to make a living.


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## flounder daddy (Mar 22, 2012)

Kyle 1974 said:


> What grade did you drop out of school? I said "per fish". Not "total".
> 
> Tell some more stories about when you and daddy used to fill 18 wheeler trucks with fish. Then wonder why these discussions have to take place.
> 
> I don't GAF if this is what your dad did for a living. Times change and history repeats itself. The commercial guys in Texas only let up on a species when the law dictates that species is crashing. Then they whine about unfair treatment when they singlehanded slit their own throats with lack of common sense.


Sounds like a certain ex-commercial guy in FB huh Kyle. You know who im talking about. Some commercial fishermen "get it", some never do and are truely greedy. Some like working themselves out of a job, some would rather have a longer career than a short one.


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## jampen (Oct 12, 2012)

No you're not psychic...

So that must mean that you're working off speculation and assumptions.


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## Kyle 1974 (May 10, 2006)

flounder daddy said:


> Sounds like a certain ex-commercial guy in FB huh Kyle. You know who im talking about. Some commercial fishermen "get it", some never do and are truely greedy. Some like working themselves out of a job, some would rather have a longer career than a short one.


yeah, that nice little family of commercial guys around laguna shores? LOL...

I didn't realize you lived so close to me... saw you pulling your boat back down Don P yesterday. still miss that thing! shallow running boat.


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## flounderdaddy (Aug 2, 2009)

More and more regulations! I get sick and tired of the government regulations. If you don't want to gig then don't gig. Let the people that enjoy gigging keep on gigging.


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## jampen (Oct 12, 2012)

I think most people just want to do the right thing to make sure there are plenty of fish "to" gig


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## The Last Mango (Jan 31, 2010)

jampen said:


> You have never met 99% of the people on here that you keep bashing.
> 
> You don't know anything about them other than what they type on a computer screen...unless you're psychic...are you psychic??
> 
> What am I thinking right now?


I only bash on environmental issues and topics on commercial fishing, I do not criticize on personal preferences on recs opinions. I feel if one man wants catch and release and another meat haul, to each his own, but when one degrades a fisheries I love and has NO knowledge of the content, yes I get bent out of shape


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## gater (May 25, 2004)

*Fisheries*



The Last Mango said:


> I only bash on environmental issues and topics on commercial fishing, I do not criticize on personal preferences on recs opinions. I feel if one man wants catch and release and another meat haul, to each his own, but when one degrades a fisheries I love and has NO knowledge of the content, yes I get bent out of shape


Problem is Mango is not all, but many commercial fisherman are not smart enough to realize they can fish themselves right out of a job. It's their God given
right to rape the resource and when someone with half a brain questions them they are stealing their livelihood. Thank God our State government unlike the Feds have the balls to keep things in line with strict commercial regulations because the it's been very obvious through the years they are not able to police themselves.


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## ak (May 6, 2012)

I thought tpwd said the population is bouncing back since the 09 law was passed. This is happening during some of the worst droughts in 100 years and during a time that other marine species have struggled ( there's a thread on trout limits to five fyi nobody gigs trout and they are a game fish they are declining ) the laws have been passed that cut the recreation giggers limits in 1/4 it was ten a day now it's five it was twice the daily bag now it's C. twice daily on all species except flounder. Why is there still so much whining about gigging stop starting stupid topics


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## jampen (Oct 12, 2012)

Not you...you seem to usually take a reasonable position for a man in your profession

Glenn is the one that, no matter the issue, if they don't agree with him, then they are entitled liberal Obama lovers...the guy is obsessed with conservative dogma


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## jampen (Oct 12, 2012)

I think we need better science before we will truly know the situation and then be able to make reasonable and beneficial regulations.

That's why I think the TPWD people ought to spend more time working with the commercial guys, in addition to their own research.

You guys, although undoubtedly biased, I think would be an invaluable source for real-world information and data.


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## glennkoks (Jun 24, 2009)

flounder daddy said:


> lol. You couldnt be farther from the truth. Ive been working for almost 20 years, and im 29 now. I dont want to hear your BS about people not knowing *** work is. I own my own business and I work 40-50hrs a week at my day job. Just built my own house, and contribute my part to society. Ive "pulled carts" for years guy. So before you start running your gum flapper about what you "assume" about a person when you know nothing about them, id suggest keep your gum flappers mute on the subject. And no, I dont sit in a office, I use my hands to make a living.


Flounder daddy,

I was not referring to you or anyone specifically. If you have worked hard and pulled the cart, god bless you. I'm sick and tired of weekend warriors trying to put good hard working folks out of buisness and blaming them for everything.


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## glennkoks (Jun 24, 2009)

jampen said:


> Not you...you seem to usually take a reasonable position for a man in your profession
> 
> Glenn is the one that, no matter the issue, if they don't agree with him, then they are entitled liberal Obama lovers...the guy is obsessed with conservative dogma


Jampen, I am not "obsessed" with conservative dogma. I am consistent in my beliefs. I do not ***** and whine about government involvement and needless regulation out of one side of my mouth and want to impose needless unwaranted regulations on hard working family's out of the other.

When the data indicates we have a problem we will review this. Until then let people fish with a rod and reel a gig or a shrimp net.


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## flounder daddy (Mar 22, 2012)

Kyle 1974 said:


> yeah, that nice little family of commercial guys around laguna shores? LOL...
> 
> I didn't realize you lived so close to me... saw you pulling your boat back down Don P yesterday. still miss that thing! shallow running boat.


Yep, went out yesterday and today. OS and slot reds both days, about 25 trout, and 2 drum. Lost a 40" class red this morning.


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## flounder daddy (Mar 22, 2012)

glennkoks said:


> Flounder daddy,
> 
> I was not referring to you or anyone specifically. If you have worked hard and pulled the cart, god bless you. I'm sick and tired of weekend warriors trying to put good hard working folks out of buisness and blaming them for everything.


Well, the average weekend warrior dosent understand both sides of it. I look at it from a few points of view.
1. A job
2. A spot
3. A fisheries management point of view. (they have to balance 1 and 2)


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## Kyle 1974 (May 10, 2006)

glennkoks said:


> Flounder daddy,
> 
> I was not referring to you or anyone specifically. If you have worked hard and pulled the cart, god bless you. I'm sick and tired of weekend warriors trying to put good hard working folks out of buisness and blaming them for everything.


 I fish for money too glenn. I'm sure there's something wrong with that in your eyes too.


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## jampen (Oct 12, 2012)

I imagine the TPWD people have to take a "worst-case scenario" approach to try and stay ahead of potential problems.

Since there is little to no immediate relief for the water quality issue, then they need to be overly cautious and proactive with the limits.


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## glennkoks (Jun 24, 2009)

flounder daddy said:


> Well, the average weekend warrior dosent understand both sides of it. I look at it from a few points of view.
> 1. A job
> 2. A spot
> 3. A fisheries management point of view. (they have to balance 1 and 2)


My point exactly. The average weekend warrior without a clear understanding of it trying undeservingly pointing the finger of blame


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## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

No.

TH


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## glennkoks (Jun 24, 2009)

Kyle 1974 said:


> I fish for money too glenn. I'm sure there's something wrong with that in your eyes too.


No, not at all. But considering your self proclaimed accolades you must be broke


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## flounder daddy (Mar 22, 2012)

jampen said:


> I imagine the TPWD people have to take a "worst-case scenario" approach to try and stay ahead of potential problems.


Thats basically right for the most part. Stay ahead of the curve. The economics the water are somewhat complex and im not a economist. TPWD is doing what they feel is best based on the data they have, their biologist have, and im sure some historic data has a role in it. 
Fishing impacts costal town economies more than most people think. If fishing died tomorrow, ALOT of people would be out of work, and not just fishermen.
You have to have a boat to commercial fish, so no more boat builders, repair guys, mechanics, engine sales, hardware sales, fuel, lubricants, etc....
Spot guys buy boats and fishing tackle. Boat sales go to zero, shops close up, tackle shops close up.
No fish to sell. Resturants go under, waiters get laid off, cooks are canned, produce companies dont sell them anymore produce, etc....

You get my point. So with that said, there HAS to be balance in our waters. The number of sport fishermen is growing weekly. Heck, last year at the Corpus API Tournament, there was something like 740 anglers in ONE 8hr tournament! The 1,000 angler mark isnt far off. Seems like there are more guides poping up as well. If the fishing is hot, and you can put people on fish and like being on the water 5 days a week, then its not a hard decision to make b/c the rest of our economy is fairly weak in the nation. LUCKLY Texas has a strong economy, fishing included.


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## glennkoks (Jun 24, 2009)

Kyle, 

There is no point in us hurling insults at each other. I grew up on the water and just view fisheries management from a different prospective I guess. I have seen lots of hard working people stumble under the weight of needless regulation and red tape. We're just not going to see eye to eye. You view commercial fishermen as takers and rapists of the sea and I view them as hard working producers.


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## sandyfork (Feb 24, 2009)

Make flounder a game fish but allow gigging for recreation only. No commercial gigging.


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## jampen (Oct 12, 2012)

Is gigging the only way that the commercial guys take flounder?


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## ak (May 6, 2012)

Haven't they already outlawed commercial gigging essentially all the license are grandfathered there are no new license sold the state buys back the old ones for ten grand the only way to get one is pay someone that has one (that's my understanding) the state recently cut everyone's limits and now the state claims the populations on the rise and they are progressing in hatchery programs what is y'all problem people who gig for the most part dont care the least bit to go stick fishing y'all do y'all's thing let us do ours


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## flounder daddy (Mar 22, 2012)

ak said:


> Haven't they already outlawed commercial gigging essentially all the license are grandfathered there are no new license sold the state buys back the old ones for ten grand the only way to get one is pay someone that has one (that's my understanding) the state recently cut everyone's limits and now the state claims the populations on the rise and they are progressing in hatchery programs what is y'all problem people who gig for the most part dont care the least bit to go stick fishing y'all do y'all's thing let us do ours


Its only "outlawed" if its against the law. The limit for commercial guys as of this moment is 30 fish per day.


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## flounder daddy (Mar 22, 2012)

jampen said:


> Is gigging the only way that the commercial guys take flounder?


It wouldnt make any sense to blind cast all day for 30 fish. You can take them on rod n reel, but its not money smart for a commercial guy to do that.


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## ak (May 6, 2012)

Totally over your head missed the point I guess... Before 09 I could possibly go purchase a new license to commercial gig now the only way is to buy an existing one grandfathered they used to be able to gig 60 now the get 30 if you think them guys do it as their only means of income your smokin and if you think the go out every night and gig 30 your real dumb just the idea of their potential numbers and a couple advertisement pictures the guides post with lots of flounder aggravates you because we can make it look easy but it always like that


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## Kyle 1974 (May 10, 2006)

glennkoks said:


> No, not at all. But considering your self proclaimed accolades you must be broke


That's right. Because the only way to make money is by getting "limits". I guess someone like you would think that way.

We should meet up sometime for a beer. I'll buy you a Mickeys 40 ouncer. You seem like a quantity over quality kinda guy.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ak (May 6, 2012)

Maybe it'd be better publicity for us to post the picturs of the nights we zeroed or gigged for five hours for three fish instead of posting our better trips


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## flounder daddy (Mar 22, 2012)

flounder daddy said:


> lol. I like how you make it easy breezy sounding. I know what Capt.Harvey is talking about. A strong current with ZERO wind can ruin visibility. The actual "act" of gigging, yeah thats not rocket science. Its just like rod n reel. 95% of the time if you put something in front of a fishes mouth, they will eat it. Its like sightcasting reds! Hell, people have caught them with a jalapeno pepper! Like anything else in fishing, "to catch fish, you must first find fish!" Commercial or rec. I personally would rather catch a big doormat on rod n reel, its more of a challenge with the waiting to set the hook, fighting, etc.. More fun as well. But im not against gigging. Shrimp boats, I dont know enough about them and their by-catch personally to make any judgements, so I will refrain from them.


AK, please read this. Then you might have a better understanding on my mindset. I know gigging isnt easy, ive been skunked plenty of times. Most commercial guys with fin-fish license here in corpus are after black drum from what I see. Everytime I go out it seems we are running around drum lines.


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## ak (May 6, 2012)

flounder daddy said:


> AK, please read this. Then you might have a better understanding on my mindset. I know gigging isnt easy, ive been skunked plenty of times. Most commercial guys with fin-fish license here in corpus are after black drum from what I see. Everytime I go out it seems we are running around drum lines.


Don't know what it's like in corpus although the very first time I ever gigged a flounder was in rockport I had been numerous times before in matagorda and zeroed finally I gigged two in copano with my lantern and then all the sudden a boat with two guys came up and just got about ten yards ahead of me and started going the fan prop wind slapped me in the face so I'm sure you met some a holes down there good luck we ain't all that bad.


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## ak (May 6, 2012)

Imagine that you went at least 10 or 15 times never gigged a flounder blowin all the gas finally you stab your first two and then a commercial boat cuts you off and blows your little lantern lite out and your smile as they cut you off haha


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## flounder daddy (Mar 22, 2012)

Ive had my fair share of run ins with people in the pitch black of night. Anyone that has gigged packery channels about the old man with the latern that is out there every single night of gigging open season if its not raining. He is the biggest richard ive ever seen. Another commercial guy was talking to me one night out there, and told me all about that guy. Im supprised he hasnt been shot with all the ghetto fools out that hang out over there at night by the bridge with the way he talks to people. Cussing them out for just asking "hey bud, you do any good tonight?" Beware of the early 90s Dark Green pontiac and the "latern man" lol


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## flounder daddy (Mar 22, 2012)

ak said:


> Imagine that you went at least 10 or 15 times never gigged a flounder blowin all the gas finally you stab your first two and then a commercial boat cuts you off and blows your little lantern lite out and your smile as they cut you off haha


I had a guy do that exact thing to me in a boat with a trolling motor one night by the 361 bridge. I was out there solo, was doing decent, had 2 on the stringer. Working the short bank on the PI side, and this a-hole in a boat pulls up right in front of me, almost knocking me down with his wake. It was funny b/c I had just gigged that area he was trolling and cleaned house. He was running at full speed in a no-wake zone stirring up the bottom. I lit him up with my gig light and he comes hauling right up to me at full speed asking what my prob was. Told him I didnt appreciate him cutting me off for 75 yards and informed him that if he wanted to make a big deal about it, I would have the PD and the warden sitting at the packery boat ramp when he was ready to load up for the night. Most people leave me alone, I gig with a 6ft long stainless pipe with a 5 prong stainless gig head layed over my shoulder pointing forward. My "trident" lol

The best part about that night was after he left, I got 2 more and called it a night with 4.


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## bragwell (Apr 15, 2010)

Ban the **** gig. Who gives a **** about gigging a prone fish??? Now gigging bull frogs is a challenge.


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## ak (May 6, 2012)

Ya I was out there bymyself with a two prong wood gig with two flounder more than I ever gigged now I would consider that a bad trip and prolly said something to them unfortunately but of coarse now I have way better secluded spots so I rarely see any other light other then my own


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## glennkoks (Jun 24, 2009)

Kyle 1974 said:


> That's right. Because the only way to make money is by getting "limits". I guess someone like you would think that way.
> 
> We should meet up sometime for a beer. I'll buy you a Mickeys 40 ouncer. You seem like a quantity over quality kinda guy.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Negative on that. I prefer good handcrafted beers. I even make my own beer from grains I malt myself and I have been known to grow my own hops which is a challenge this far south.

If I were you and I was looking for flounder in your neck of the woods outside of the obvious Packery Channel I would travel down to Bird Island. There is a dropoff that runs all the way down to Yarbourough where the water goes from about 18" deep to 3 or 4 ft deep. Fish the bottom of that dropoff, lots of time it holds fish.


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## glennkoks (Jun 24, 2009)

Another trick of the trade is fishing crab traps. Pinfish and piggy perch eat more bait from the traps than crabs do. Flounder are attracted to crab traps like deer to a feeder.


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## robolivar (Oct 7, 2011)

jdeleon said:


> I just wish they put stop to the gigging!!!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Maybe they should ban whatever it is you enjoy on the water. 
to say that is just stupid.


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## robolivar (Oct 7, 2011)

glennkoks said:


> "save the flounder"? Are you serious? I could of sworn i heard texas parks and wildlife say the flounder populations are ok?
> 
> You want to save the flounder chain yourself across the road entering seawolf park in november!


x100000!


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## robolivar (Oct 7, 2011)

I Fall In said:


> So rod and reel fishermen are dedicated and the giggers just have a habit?
> Limits are limits regardless of how you get them. All the flounder that I didn't gig because they were too small survived, can anyone say the same about undersized flounder hooked and released ?


EGGZAKKLEE! more flounder are caught by idiots that either dont know how to remove a hook or keep every damm flounder they catch carting them off to the getaway truck. The practice of gigging/harpooning/spearing has been around for more than 16000 years, so how is it that us giggers are lowering the population. IMO, the best way to get the population up (higher, since its not even down), is to designate a game warden or two at every hot spot during the run. this includes seawolf, ferry landings, yacht basin, and frenchtown. I guarantee you there will be a major boost in the population. Im usally not for excessive "policing", but when it threatens my fellow giggers gigging privileges, Im alllllll for it.

just my two cents


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## tspitzer (Feb 7, 2013)

I do not target flounder when I catch some it is a bonus--But I would think during the run there could be more GW's out. If you have ever been Pheasant hunting on the plains--you will see several GW's and will have traffic stops to check you birds--


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## GordaGiggin (May 8, 2012)

I flounder east and west Matagorda bays, in the last 15 years I've been checked once at night in west bay, other than that I've never even seen one out in that area at night


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## robolivar (Oct 7, 2011)

thats what im talking about...GW's are nowhere to be found 99% of the time the flounder raping is going on...and i realize its hard to be everywhere all the time but they could step it up a little. these men/their women and their children that are doin this are damm near fearless, and mostly because they have never even been asked to show their fishing licenses, or had their box of 50-12" flounder checked. They will continue to destroy our flounder population no matter what laws are in place because they dont care. US law abiding texans will always respect the laws our state has put in place but when they are put in place due to the impact of NON-LAW ABIDING "people", we start losing faith in the system. 
MORE GW's = MORE FISH for our future. MORE RESTRICTIONS = MORE UNFORTUNATE FISHERMAN


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## robolivar (Oct 7, 2011)

by the way gorda, not saying you were raping the flounder...just speaking in general.


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## greenhornet (Apr 21, 2010)

In relation to the trout and flounder policies I believe the recreational impact is greatly underestimated. In our area I only know of one boat ramp that has people conducting surveys (occasionally and during limited hours) out of at least 20 boat ramps. You also have folks with boats on lifts and kayaks/waders who don't need to use a ramp. So are they multiplying their data by 10 or 20? Pretty much impossible to put an accurate number on fish taken. Simply come on down to the ULM on any Summer weekend and you will realize it is a heavy toll put on the fish.


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## Blueshoes (Jan 24, 2013)

you guys would argue over the color of the **** you took this morning.


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## flounder daddy (Mar 22, 2012)

greenhornet said:


> In relation to the trout and flounder policies I believe the recreational impact is greatly underestimated. In our area I only know of one boat ramp that has people conducting surveys (occasionally and during limited hours) out of at least 20 boat ramps. You also have folks with boats on lifts and kayaks/waders who don't need to use a ramp. So are they multiplying their data by 10 or 20? Pretty much impossible to put an accurate number on fish taken. Simply come on down to the ULM on any Summer weekend and you will realize it is a heavy toll put on the fish.


Yep, the recreational activity has gone WAY up in the last 5 years.


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## texasjellyfish (Jan 23, 2006)

The Last Mango said:


> Mongoose nets fish to trashy, corners work to hard and I don't like to the way the tapers are cut, I have a friend who designs our nets.


 Moongoose nets were the ticket to a 15-20 box a day shrimp
unfortunately you never was able to dial yours in .
Dragging that 65` rig down the Houston ship channel is a challenge , nothing better than getting hung up with barge and ship traffic coming

pls before you judge me or anyone else and bash them, first find out if we know what we are talking about ,

I worked many years with very smart and nice gentleman building shrimp boats from a 36`er to 65`er , all mostly channel boats and a couple of gulf boats , this guy was Pete Hunter , im sure he has allot of hulls down that way
I have been on the water both commercially and rec since before I could swim ,
So I have personally seen the dead flounder scooped up from my net its no expert opinion but a experienced one .
over and out


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## 535 (May 23, 2004)

Blueshoes said:


> so, all im confused about is why the definition of gamefish isnt a fish that has a minimum length requirement or slot size.
> 
> i need CLARIFICATION
> 
> ...


it is legal to use flounder as bait


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## The Last Mango (Jan 31, 2010)

texasjellyfish said:


> Moongoose nets were the ticket to a 15-20 box a day shrimp
> unfortunately you never was able to dial yours in .
> Dragging that 65` rig down the Houston ship channel is a challenge , nothing better than getting hung up with barge and ship traffic coming
> 
> ...


Not bashing you, just saying I don't like the mongoose style net, and dragging the channel is like shooting deer in a pen, they got no place to go. I yes, I know the Pete Hunter style hull, as a matter of fact, I'm thinking about rebuilding one now.


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## spurgersalty (Jun 29, 2010)

jc said:


> it is legal to use flounder as bait


Even for dolphin or porpoises?


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## 535 (May 23, 2004)

laugh or cry or whatever, its great shark bait


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## spurgersalty (Jun 29, 2010)

jc said:


> laugh or cry or whatever, its great shark bait



Imma throw a greenie your way JC, cause I feel you're about to receive a few reddies after that!:rotfl:


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## Smackdaddy53 (Nov 4, 2011)

bragwell said:


> Ban the **** gig. Who gives a **** about gigging a prone fish??? Now gigging bull frogs is a challenge.


Ban croaker, treble hooks, air boats, skinny running seagrass trenching boats, gigging, guns, bowfishing, duck hunting...
Don't be one of those guys. There is nothing wrong with any of those things. The problem is there are too many idiots on the water that don't know how to act.

http://www.fishingscout.com/scouts/SmackDaddy


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## glennkoks (Jun 24, 2009)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Ban croaker, treble hooks, air boats, skinny running seagrass trenching boats, gigging, guns, bowfishing, duck hunting...
> Don't be one of those guys. There is nothing wrong with any of those things. The problem is there are too many idiots on the water that don't know how to act.
> 
> http://www.fishingscout.com/scouts/SmackDaddy


X2 Amen!


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## bragwell (Apr 15, 2010)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Ban croaker, treble hooks, air boats, skinny running seagrass trenching boats, gigging, guns, bowfishing, duck hunting...
> Don't be one of those guys. There is nothing wrong with any of those things. The problem is there are too many idiots on the water that don't know how to act.
> 
> http://www.fishingscout.com/scouts/SmackDaddy


Nah; just gigging flounder.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Nov 4, 2011)

bragwell said:


> Nah; just gigging flounder.


That will be the day

http://www.fishingscout.com/scouts/SmackDaddy


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## flounder daddy (Mar 22, 2012)

smackdaddy53 said:


> the problem is there are too many idiots on the water that don't know how to act.
> 
> http://www.fishingscout.com/scouts/smackdaddy


quote of the year!


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## I Fall In (Sep 18, 2011)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Ban croaker, treble hooks, air boats, skinny running seagrass trenching boats, gigging, guns, bowfishing, duck hunting...
> Don't be one of those guys. There is nothing wrong with any of those things. The problem is there are too many idiots on the water that don't know how to act.
> 
> http://www.fishingscout.com/scouts/SmackDaddy


 Just ban Idiots, problem solved.


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## robolivar (Oct 7, 2011)

Blueshoes said:


> you guys would argue over the color of the **** you took this morning.


No but id argue if they tried to tell me when amd how many ****s i can take


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## bragwell (Apr 15, 2010)

flounder daddy said:


> quote of the year!


Yup


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## captainharvey (Mar 1, 2011)

robolivar said:


> No but id argue if they tried to tell me when amd how many ****s i can take


Or what style of TP you could use regardless if it was affective or not and not depleting any type of resource blah blah blah.

Then we could argue over toilet style or seat size.

Lol

The flounder population is currently sustainable with our current regs in place. Rod and reel landings are up. Flounder quality is up, so why are we arguing?
Why not just be happy and get after it again when it warms up? 
Good luck to the flounder harvesters this year, whichever way you choose to get em!


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## nicklas1976 (Apr 23, 2013)

I like it both ways! Rod and reel and gigging that is.


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## Jean Scurtu (Dec 6, 2011)

Just rod and reel this right fishing.For me gigging is not fishing.


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## bragwell (Apr 15, 2010)

Jean Scurtu said:


> Just rod and reel this right fishing.For me gigging is not fishing.


My sentiments exactly. There is no sport in standing on a **** boat and stabbing a prone fish. They sit there, you can motor right up to them, they just sit there, and you stab it with a long handled gig. A dingbat riding an ice chest could limit out in a night tooling around stabbing prone flounder. It's easy peasy.


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## The Last Mango (Jan 31, 2010)

bragwell said:


> My sentiments exactly. There is no sport in standing on a **** boat and stabbing a prone fish. They sit there, you can motor right up to them, they just sit there, and you stab it with a long handled gig. A dingbat riding an ice chest could limit out in a night tooling around stabbing prone flounder. It's easy peasy.


One might argue there is no sport in catching them with a $400 rod and reel with a 7:1 retrieve with a factory lazor sharp hook while sitting in a $50,000 boat . Maybe a dugout canoe from a pecan tree and a cane pole from the ditch is more sporty. Little different definition of "sporty "


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## flounder daddy (Mar 22, 2012)

bragwell said:


> My sentiments exactly. There is no sport in standing on a **** boat and stabbing a prone fish. They sit there, you can motor right up to them, they just sit there, and you stab it with a long handled gig. A dingbat riding an ice chest could limit out in a night tooling around stabbing prone flounder. It's easy peasy.


Do you hunt?


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## Smackdaddy53 (Nov 4, 2011)

flounder daddy said:


> Do you hunt?


I bet he stalks deer, jumps on their back, takes them down then rips their throat out with his teeth since feeding them corn, hiding in a comfy blind and shooting them with a high powered rifle through the heart is so much more difficult. 
You guys have to remember bragwell is the guy that thinks we are all retarded for buying nice rods, reels and lures. All he needs is a 5 ounce fiberglass rod, 1975 Abu Garcia spooled with 30# mono and a pack of cocohoe minnows to catch all the fish in the bay.

http://www.fishingscout.com/scouts/SmackDaddy


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## robolivar (Oct 7, 2011)

Jean Scurtu said:


> Just rod and reel this right fishing.For me gigging is not fishing.


Ur exactly right ..its not fishing...its gigging..it was one of.the first methods of "huntin and killing" your.own dinner...its a tradition, there is.sport to it , and its fun for the kids...any yahoo can pick up a rod and reel during november throw some flounder crack on a jig(gulp) and catch fish all day. We can argue this all day but at the end.of the day some of us will go home , grab our. Bright *** light and our sharp *** gig and when the time is right, go stab some flatties. The rest of yal need ur sleep....ull be battling the other 2 million people on the water in the morn ,,,,and thats fine. I do it too.

Love both methods.. aint gunna knock one


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## glennkoks (Jun 24, 2009)

bragwell said:


> My sentiments exactly. There is no sport in standing on a **** boat and stabbing a prone fish. They sit there, you can motor right up to them, they just sit there, and you stab it with a long handled gig. A dingbat riding an ice chest could limit out in a night tooling around stabbing prone flounder. It's easy peasy.


Get off your "pedastal", if you have kids get them off the X-box take them along and "hunt" flounder with a gig along the flats and tell me it is not sporting. You have to fight wind and tide and at least a dozen other factors that can all work against you.

I fish with both a rod and reel and a gig. And I can attest to the fact that gigging is twice the sport as lining up with 600 other people at Seawolf Park in November and ambushing them as they are funneled like sheep out of the narrow pass. And lets face it, catching a flounder on a rod and reel is like catching a small piece of wet carpet.


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## robolivar (Oct 7, 2011)

By the way, like i said, im not knocking rod and reel method..AT ALL.they are tricky fish and during the off season, it takes alot of skill to.target them and get a limit.


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## glennkoks (Jun 24, 2009)

robolivar said:


> By the way, like i said, im not knocking rod and reel method..AT ALL.they are tricky fish and during the off season, it takes alot of skill to.target them and get a limit.


robolivar,

You could drive up to seawolf in november, put a blindfold on me, tie one hand behind my back, guide me down to the waters edge so I don't fall on my face and I could limit out on flounder. And then It would actually be more exciting to catch a two pound hardhead. It would put up a better fight.

But were told gigging is not sporting?


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## Fishin' Soldier (Dec 25, 2007)

bragwell said:


> Ban the **** gig. Who gives a **** about gigging a prone fish??? Now gigging bull frogs is a challenge.


Gigging frogs? Thats too easy. Gotta hand grab em if you want a real challenge.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk


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## robolivar (Oct 7, 2011)

glennkoks said:


> robolivar,
> 
> You could drive up to seawolf in november, put a blindfold on me, tie one hand behind my back, guide me down to the waters edge so I don't fall on my face and I could limit out on flounder. And then It would actually be more exciting to catch a two pound hardhead. It would put up a better fight.
> 
> But were told gigging is not sporting?


Yea I dont understand how anyone could say its not sporting when you can goto seawolf where its basically a 5.99 all you can catch buffet, cause all you have to do is buy a pack of gulp for 5.99 and stand in one spot and drag up flat after flat. BUT I will say that other than oct, nov. and dec, flounder are not near as easy to aquire. does take skill and I do enjoy that THUMP. I build custom lights and gigs now and am dedicating some time to the SPORT so I wish you hardheads would just get with the program and stab you a few..youll have a blast, I GUARANTEE IT.


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## dbarham (Aug 13, 2005)

robolivar said:


> Yea I dont understand how anyone could say its not sporting when you can goto seawolf where its basically a 5.99 all you can catch buffet, cause all you have to do is buy a pack of gulp for 5.99 and stand in one spot and drag up flat after flat. BUT I will say that other than oct, nov. and dec, flounder are not near as easy to aquire. does take skill and I do enjoy that THUMP. I build custom lights and gigs now and am dedicating some time to the SPORT so I wish you hardheads would just get with the program and stab you a few..youll have a blast, I GUARANTEE IT.


Not that easy at all man what a joke!! Hahahahah

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## robolivar (Oct 7, 2011)

Fishin' Soldier said:


> Gigging frogs? Thats too easy. Gotta hand grab em if you want a real challenge.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk


TRUE STORY.
Me and my ol man used to go frog giggin all the time and it was alot easier than gigging flats. grabbin them by hand is more fun , just gotta watch out for those twatamoscins!!


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## robolivar (Oct 7, 2011)

dbarham said:


> Not that easy at all man what a joke!! Hahahahah
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


thats funny cause ive witnessed it several times..maybe your not holdin your mouth right. haha





dont have to watch but its basically a video of a guy at SWP catching flounder after flounder after flounder with gulp and mullet


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## glennkoks (Jun 24, 2009)

Here is a novel concept for those people who do not think gigging flounder is "sporting".

Don't go gigging. Leave those of us who do alone.


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## glennkoks (Jun 24, 2009)

robolivar said:


> thats funny cause ive witnessed it several times..maybe your not holdin your mouth right. haha
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Where is the sport in that? No stingrays to shoo away, no flounder beds to track, no mosquitoes to torment you, no wrestling with a monster stone crab to try and get him to give you his right claw!

Kind of boring and certainly not as sporting as gigging!


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## bragwell (Apr 15, 2010)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> I bet he stalks deer, jumps on their back, takes them down then rips their throat out with his teeth since feeding them corn, hiding in a comfy blind and shooting them with a high powered rifle through the heart is so much more difficult.
> You guys have to remember bragwell is the guy that thinks we are all retarded for buying nice rods, reels and lures. All he needs is a 5 ounce fiberglass rod, 1975 Abu Garcia spooled with 30# mono and a pack of cocohoe minnows to catch all the fish in the bay.
> 
> http://www.fishingscout.com/scouts/SmackDaddy


Haha! Calm down fellas. Fiberglass!?!? Hell no! Dude if you can't limit out on flounder with a cane pole, a spool of yarn, and a silver spoon you need to quit "attempting" to be a "fisherman". Just put the laguna down and walk away.


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## Blueshoes (Jan 24, 2013)

I just go to the water and use my flounder call and they come up and hop on my stringer. Sometimes i have to separate them from fighting because I can only take so many with me. The last few I got flopped in sync with my walk so I would be able to get them to the jeep because they weighed so much.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Nov 4, 2011)

bragwell said:


> Haha! Calm down fellas. Fiberglass!?!? Hell no! Dude if you can't limit out on flounder with a cane pole, a spool of yarn, and a silver spoon you need to quit "attempting" to be a "fisherman". Just put the laguna down and walk away.


Just giving you hell like always, someone has to! 
Im going to keep sticking flatfish on foot and you other guys can sight cast, gig off a boat, bowfish, dead mullet on a cane pole or whatever you want and it won't bother me where I go. Too many alligators, mosquitos and critters running around on the bank for most yuppies to deal with. 
Different strokes for different folks!

http://www.fishingscout.com/scouts/SmackDaddy


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## robolivar (Oct 7, 2011)

*wow*



Blueshoes said:


> I just go to the water and use my flounder call and they come up and hop on my stringer. Sometimes i have to separate them from fighting because I can only take so many with me. The last few I got flopped in sync with my walk so I would be able to get them to the jeep because they weighed so much.


I just wade out about 1ft, hundreds of flounder race towards my gig and the first 5 that get there stack on top of eachother largest to smallest, waiting impatiently for me to shishkabob them

and where can i get one of those flounder calls?? smh...


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## Blueshoes (Jan 24, 2013)

i spent 11 years lurking the depths of the ship channel, made good friends with alot of the fish and eventually the elder flatty swam through, we had a beer and eventually he taught me the call through sign language.


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## poppadawg (Aug 10, 2007)

I think the problem is the shrimpers and giggers. The Rod and Reel fisherman are the problem as well. Idiots are also an issue. I have heard people go down to seawolf and just open a cooler next to the shoreline and Flounder just jump in. Sometimes more than just two. Apparently there are alot of issues.


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## Trouthappy (Jun 12, 2008)

If they stop gigging, then the trout fishermen should stop night-fishing under lights and handling too many undersize fish. Everybody pitch in, to helps the bays. Next thing you know, we have more trout and flounder in the bays. They say we already have too many redfish.


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## The Last Mango (Jan 31, 2010)

poppadawg said:


> I think the problem is the shrimpers and giggers. The Rod and Reel fisherman are the problem as well. Idiots are also an issue. I have heard people go down to seawolf and just open a cooler next to the shoreline and Flounder just jump in. Sometimes more than just two. Apparently there are alot of issues.


Did you exclude anyone? Surely you cut your comment short, you forgot to tell us why, please educate me on why you feel this way


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## Category6 (Nov 21, 2007)

robolivar said:


> No but id argue if they tried to tell me when amd how many ****s i can take


how the heck is ****s ok but tar **** gets the asterisks?


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## anzuelo (Nov 17, 2005)

Not against gigging -- on foot. 

Seems like the flounder boats cover too much shoreline too efficiently.

I've had them pull around me when on foot and clean out the next mile of shoreline. And more than once have seen a flounder boat meet up and switch ice chests and continue gigging.


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## nicklas1976 (Apr 23, 2013)

anzuelo said:


> Not against gigging -- on foot.
> 
> Seems like the flounder boats cover too much shoreline too efficiently.
> 
> I've had them pull around me when on foot and clean out the next mile of shoreline. And more than once have seen a flounder boat meet up and switch ice chests and continue gigging.


That is because they got you limit too. Seriously though, I have seen rod & reel guys do this also.


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## chugger (Jul 12, 2009)

Here is some info from TPWD - thought I would post and get some opinions.

http://2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1040673&stc=1&d=1389793474

http://2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1040681&stc=1&d=1389793474


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## jampen (Oct 12, 2012)

The data for rec fishing in December looks peculiar to me.

Why would the Dec % jump from 2-3% all the way up to 35%??

Doesn't look right...May is unusual also


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## glennkoks (Jun 24, 2009)

It looks like they just re-arranged the chairs. Before the rule changes November was the big month for flounder, now it is december. I would venture to guess that if they extend the rule changes to December we will see a big spike in October.

It's no secret early hard fronts will get the run going stronger in October, milder conditions will postpone it until December.


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## jampen (Oct 12, 2012)

What years does this cover?


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## chugger (Jul 12, 2009)

jampen said:


> What years does this cover?


I'm not sure - the slides do not say.
Also - I inadvertently cut off that the Recreational slide is for "daytime landings only "


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## OneMoreCast (Jan 7, 2014)

I would love to see it become a game fish..... it could bring the population back to what it once was.


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## The Last Mango (Jan 31, 2010)

OneMoreCast said:


> I would love to see it become a game fish..... it could bring the population back to what it once was.


Substantiate your claim?


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## Trouthappy (Jun 12, 2008)

Ever try to out-run a flounder boat, when you're walking a shoreline? It ain't easy. I had to get there at sunset, just to beat them to a spot. At dusk you'd see their boat lights coming, like a pack of hounds. They'd go 15 feet around me, then cut back into the prime shallow water. Get all the flounder for a mile ahead of me. It's usually a thin strip of water where you can make out the bottom, and a few whiskey-drinking jokers on a flounder boat can strip it clean. I've also been a couple times on a flounder boat, it can be like a party, gigging away without taking a step or getting wet, all the while sipping Crown and Coke until 2 a.m. On our best trip we got 25 in the box, lost about eight more trying to flip them into the boat. It wasn't near as much fun as wading. It was November and about all our flounder were females with eggs. Great way to manage the fishery, killing many thousands of egg-laden females. So they mostly put a stop to that. And look what happens, the population rebounds some. But it could be better. Of course anyone with a flounder boat will oppose more restrictions.


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## StrikerX (Aug 31, 2009)

I started doing a little research on the interwebs about flounder growth rates. Alot of sites claim that male flounders on average don't even make the 14 inch mark. On average a female flounder passes the 14 inch mark in her first year. I also found this pdf that was very good read. Is it 100% true...probably not. Also I am still looking around for the same type of data conducted for the Texas coast and see the southern flounder have better conditions here than the Carolinas where the data was gathered for the pdf.

I just started flounder gigging last October and was wondering some things. Does anyone have a picture of an egg laden female? Can you tell before you gut her? What do the egg sacks look like full and emptied?

Here is a link to the pdf for the southern flounder in the Carolinas....http://saltwaterfishing.sc.gov/pdf/fishingforflounder.pdf


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## Trouthappy (Jun 12, 2008)

Catch an 18 inch flounder in November, and you'll find plenty of eggs...ha ha. But not fully gravid, those eggs won't be ready until January. You'll have to gut one, to actually see the eggs.


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