# Best saltwater flyline for noobs



## Rippin_drag

What is the absolute best flyline for beginners? Something that is 'foregiving' and will give maximum distance via loading, preferibly. 
Looking at the flyline section of a store is like looking at the plastics section in Academy. LOL


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## twitch-twitch-reel

bend back deciver


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## dsim3240

For general purposes a good weight forward floating line will do for most of your fishing. I like the Scientific Angler Weight forward foating lines. The Rio lines are also good. The specailty tapered lines aren't necessary. Get the best $$ weight forward line that matches your rod that you can afford. They will cast the best and last the longest if you keep them clean..


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## Boatwright

Whatever you buy, make sure it's green. Green line is for distance casting.


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## Not For Hire

Royal Wulff Triangle Taper. The first 30 feet or so is blue and the rest is tan. It will help you learn how much line you can carry until you get a feel for it. If you are just getting into it, casting it is not about distance, its about accuracy and composure.


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## superflyguy

I agree with Not For Hire. I prefer lines with a camo tip. The tip serves two purposes: 1.) it gives you a quick look at how much line you have out, and 2.) it camoflages the tip. Some think that fly line color doesn't matter, but I disagree. I'll say this...when casting at spooky fish, I'd rather have a camo tip than a non-camo tip. So you might as well go ahead and get it. For me, I prefer and most use Rio lines, but also like the Triangle Taper lines. Rio has always been good for me. If you're going to be sight casting, you definitely want to start out with a Weight Forward Floating line. I would also recommend buying a line that is one weight higher than your rod. For instance, use a 9 wieght line on an 8 weight rod. This will help load your rod and ulitmately give you more line speed and distance. One other issue to consider is when you will be fishing. If you are fishing only in the summer heat then you can get away with most any line, but if you are also going to be fishing in the winter when the water is colder, then you will need to look at lines that will work in both water temperatures. But like dsim3240 said above, get the best line you can afford to get; which is basically what you should do for all fishing equipment. Good line does make a difference.


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## Rippin_drag

Thanks guys. Thats the 4th recommendation i've had on the Royal Wulff line. May check that stuff out.


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## Ish

Fool said:


> Some think that fly line color doesn't matter, but I disagree.


if you've got the right leader and are casting right, the fish will never see the line.

if the fish never sees the line, what difference does the color make?

and don't even get me started on the over-lining crutch.


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## Ish

Boatwright said:


> Whatever you buy, make sure it's green. Green line is for distance casting.


fluorescent orange is for accuracy casting.

guess you just have to decide what is more important to you.


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## Golden

Scientific Angler "Head Start"! This line has a heavier head section to help load the rod, more like a bass taper, is also "green" so it you shouldn't have a hard time throwing it a long way if Boatwright is correct...not! Good beginners fly line works well in hot weather but is the poop in cold!


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## superflyguy

Funny...I've fished all over North and South America and the Bahamas and not once have I seen an experienced fly fisher use orange fly line. I've seen alot of blues, tans, olives, and camo tips, but never any orange. I wonder why you don't see orange? Here's my thoughts and what I believe to be the answer. If you only have the opportunity to cast at single fish all day long, then Ish has a point in saying, "if you've got the right leader and are casting right, the fish will never see the line." However, if you are casting at schools of fish with many fish in each school, thus many sets of eyes, then I perfer to use a line that is the least noticable in the water. I will also agree that leader choice is critical in the equation, but ****** Loco didn't ask about leaders. Just fly lines this time. As for over-lining, I would love to hear Ish's comments on the subject. Seems he knows something all us other experienced fly casters don't. Ish, please educate us.


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## Ish

how experienced can you be if you've never seen an orange fly line???

(relax, it was a joke.)

knock yourself out, sport



Fool said:


> I've fished all over North and South America and the Bahamas....


then surely you have some incredible pictures from all these places you've fished. put your money where your mouth is and post up the goods.

by the way, now you can say you've seen orange fly line


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## crw91383

I started out with the cabelas brand and was very satisfied with the performance!!


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## superflyguy

Ish. You're right...that is an orange fly line. Too bad it's a trout line. I thought we were talking about SW lines here?

I'm finished discussing this issue with you. You're obviously not as smart or as experienced as you think you are. Have a good one.


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## Ish

NO!!!!! Don't go! If you leave and take your ball, what are we going to play with??

I never said I thought I was smart, or experienced. You said that.

The orange line thing was a joke. Just like "green line casts farther" was a joke. Loosen up.


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## FlySouth

I've started using Rio's bonefish line and I like it a lot.

Some guys around here really dont like humor mixed in with their fly fishing....


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## Rippin_drag

Looks like there is a resident fly-fishing bad*ss in the house. 
Easy fellas just asking about flyline, didn't want to start a war.
thanks for all the info so far.


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## superflyguy

FlySouth. I agree that Rio's Bonefish line is a great fly line. I used to use it myself. I changed because it didn't work well in cooler water. It works great in warm water (where bonefish live), but if you use it on the gulf coast in the winter months you may not like it as much. It gets really stiff, which makes it difficult to cast. Hope this helps.


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## jbenge

*fly line*



FlyFishinFool said:


> FlySouth. I agree that Rio's Bonefish line is a great fly line. I used to use it myself. I changed because it didn't work well in cooler water. It works great in warm water (where bonefish live), but if you use it on the gulf coast in the winter months you may not like it as much. It gets really stiff, which makes it difficult to cast. Hope this helps.


Can you tell me what is a good line for cold water?


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## superflyguy

jbenge. Do you want a recommendation for a saltwater line that works well in cold water? What are you going to be fishing for and what line weight are you looking for? Thanks.


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## superflyguy

http://www.deschutesangler.com/Fly+Fishing/Saltwater+Center/Rio+Camo+Tip+Saltwater+Line.html

The above link is what I use with my 8-9-10 weight rods; Rio Saltwater CamoTip Line. Don't know why, but Rio doesn't make it any longer. Maybe because it was too versatile. They want you to buy 2 lines versus having one line that does it all. You may be able to find it being sold by some online dealers that have remaining stock of the line. If I had to buy another line, I would probably get the the Royal Wulff 2 Tone Bermuda Triangle Taper Line. http://www.royalwulff.com/saltwater_lines.html#saltwater

I hope this helps answer your question.


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## jbenge

*fly line*



FlyFishinFool said:


> jbenge. Do you want a recommendation for a saltwater line that works well in cold water? What are you going to be fishing for and what line weight are you looking for? Thanks.


Saltwater 8wt


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## superflyguy

jbenge. we must have posted at the same time. my response is above your last post.


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## jbenge

Fool, 

What sinking line would you recommend for tailing redfish?


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## JDM77

FFF,
You sound like a well seasoned fly fisher person so what is the ideal distance a relative novice should strive to get his target fish into? What is the average casting distances for the major shallow water SW species? Lastly, what fly do you think a gafftop or hard head will take? I bet they would be right sporty on a fly rod and those suckers are good eating too, seriously.


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## superflyguy

jbenge. Why would you want to use a sinking line for tailing redfish?


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## jbenge

Umm well their heads are in the mud.


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## superflyguy

I understand your logic here, but you do not need to use a sinking line to sight cast to tailing redfish. In fact, you will have problems if you do. You need to use a floating line. Your fly and leader will get down to the fish. By loking at how deep the water is and what the bottom consist of, it will tell you how weighted your fly needs to be. Whether you need an unweighted fly, slightly weight (like bead eyes), or heavily weighted (lead eyes). Trust me...go with weight forward floating line.


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## superflyguy

JDM77. All good questions. First, let me say this, you don't need to be able to cast 60+ feet to catch fish with a fly rod. Many times, this thought discourages people from fly fishing altogether because they think they have to be able to cast like champion to catch fish. This is completely false. If you can *accurately* cast 35-40 feet, then you will have the opportunity to catch fish. Accuracy is the key. The good news is in order to cast 35-40 feet, you don't need to know how to double or triple haul your rod and line. A distance of 35-40 feet can be acheived by anyone with a 9 foot 8 weight rod with a little practice. Now, if you happen to be able to double and triple haul fly line 60+ feet or can cast well into a head wind and/or side wind, then your chances of being able to put your fly in front of more fish goes way up; which will most likely allow you to catch more fish. Ofcourse, it doesn't guarantee it. I'll also say this, in my opinion, casting from the front of a boat is a lot easier than casting while wade fishing. If you are going to wade fish, you need to be a little better caster. The main reason is that you are trying to cast into the same water that you are standing knee deep in versus standing 3-4 feet above the water like on the front of a boat. So, in my opinion, if you can *accurately* cast 35-40 feet, then you will catch as many fish as most other people. As a side note, the largest redfish I've ever caught on a fly rod (24#) was caught about 20 feet off the front of the boat. All I did was flip the fly in front of it and he engulfed it.

As for a fly recommendation for hard heads, I don't have one. I've never targeted these fish. I have caught them on occasion with crab patterns and bait fish pattens, but it was just because I was bored and decided to cast to them because the redishing was slow.

Hope this helps.


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## JDM77

Thats just great! I thought I was doing good because I learned how to double haul recently and now you are saying there is a triple haul. Speaking of triple haul, thats a pretty hard concept for me to wrap my head around :headknock:spineyes:... Another question is on the up-lining thing... I dont understand why not use what your set-up is designed for? If I am having issues wouldnt it pay to buy a new set up to use the up-sized line? 

As for the fly recommendation for my beloved :**** of the sea and possum of the shallows, maybe I will try to soak the crab pattern in gulp or a little tub of chicken liver juice from the grocery store. On the ones you have caught, what retrieve did you/do you recommend? 

Thanks for sharing!


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## superflyguy

JDM77. Over lining is a personal choice. If you read some of the previous posts, you will read that some think over lining is a crutch for those who can't cast. I disagree. I know and have fished with a lot of great fly caster and most all of them over line when they are saltwater fishing. Over lining also has alot to do with what type of line (configuration) you are using and, more importantly, what rod you are using. For instance, I use Sage Xi2s; which are fast action rods. For me and my casting technique, using a line weight one higher than my rod weight helps me load the rod quicker and shoot line without having to make an extra false cast. Keep in mind, when sight casting you want to make as few false casts as possible. The ideal situation when you see a fish is you want to be able to have your fly in your hand opposite of your casting hand, toss the fly in the air, make one back cast, and shoot 40+ feet of line with one cast. If you can do this and be accurate with your cast, you will be more successful than 90% of your buddies. 

One other advantage of overlining is it helps turn over larger flies. For instance, I like large crab patterns. They are my confidence pattern when it comes to redfish. My favorite is a lead eye crab patterns in a #1 size. I think redfish like hearty meals, especially the big ones, so I like to use larger flies. In my opinion, over lining helps me turn over the larger flies. Like I said, it's a personal preference. Here's what I recommend you do. Visit a good fly shop and take your rod with you. Ask them to allow you to demo different weight lines using your rod. This may help you find the right one BEFORE you buy.

As for retrieves on hard heads, just put it in front of them. Because they're scanvengers, I assume they'll eat anything that gets placed in front of them that looks or smells like food.

Good luck.


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## FlySouth

Triple Haul? Enlighten.

You need to be a good caster if you want to be an effective angler.
This means casting accurately 75-80 feet or even more.
If you can do this well, then you will have no problem reaching the 35-40 feet when the wind is howling, your fly line is coiled up like a slinky, and your waist deep in water. Don't settle and think because you can cast the belly of a fly line you are ready for anything.

If you need to make a 60+ foot cast (which can be common on the coast) and you are up-lined then you will quickly realize you are handicapped.


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## jbenge

*fly line*

Fool, I think I get where you're coming from.

Got another question for you; what size strike indicator should I be using (and what's your favorite color)?


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## superflyguy

Flysouth. The triple haul is the act of putting an extra haul on your final forward cast to straighten out your leader which makes your fly lay out as it should. The only time it's usually used is in windy conditions when casting into a head wind. The extra haul at the end of the cast makes the fly turn over sharply and keeps the fly from getting blown back into the leader.

Flysouth. There's no doubt you need to be an good caster to be a successful angler. However, I don't think that being able to cast 75-80 is a prerequisite in order to catch fish. If you can do it, then you are just more likely to catch fish. The question was asked, "what is the average casting distance" and the answer is not 75-80 feet. If it were, there would be alot of disappointed fly anglers out there; thus a lot less people fly fishing. I completely agree with you that if someone has the ability to cast 75-80 feet that they will (most likely) catch more fish because they will have the ability to put their fly in front of more fish. I will say this though...to me, the toughest casts are the ones where the fish shows up inside 20 feet; not the 70 foot cast. In my opinion, it can be harder to accurately "pitch" your leader and 5 foot of fly line than it is to cast a longer distance.

Please explain how over lining can handicap a fly caster. I'm not understanding.


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## superflyguy

jbenge. You don't use a strike indicator when sight casting to redfish or any other shallow water fish for that matter. The take is usually seen with your eyes at which point you strip set.


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## yourdad

*You goons*

Ok so I mostly just read the post for entertainment but on this one you goons made me get an account to say *** over???

JDM77 - are you serious with the whole gafftop hard-head thing? come on guy get a net and go to the fish cleaning station and save time and money. You need to take your walmart rod and beat yourself with it.

FOOL - lets start with you explaining your triple haul 'o great one'. Seriously guy? I find myself looking at your posts and just get the head tilt and *** look takes over. So you too chase hardheads...at least you got the last part of your name right.

jbenge - come on guy... You too should take your rod and just beat yourself with it or have someone beat you with it.

I am by no stretch of the imagination an expert but some of this **** is just silly. How do you logically arrange this **** in your head to make you think its a good idea?

Fool - I noticed you are a little sensitive a few post back, so I am curious to see if you will throw your sucker in the dirt and stomp off the play ground...


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## jbenge

*inbred dad*



yourdad said:


> Ok so I mostly just read the post for entertainment but on this one you goons made me get an account to say *** over???
> 
> JDM77 - are you serious with the whole gafftop hard-head thing? come on guy get a net and go to the fish cleaning station and save time and money. You need to take your walmart rod and beat yourself with it.
> 
> FOOL - lets start with you explaining your triple haul 'o great one'. Seriously guy? I find myself looking at your posts and just get the head tilt and *** look takes over. So you too chase hardheads...at least you got the last part of your name right.
> 
> jbenge - come on guy... You too should take your rod and just beat yourself with it or have someone beat you with it.
> 
> I am by no stretch of the imagination an expert but some of this **** is just silly. How do you logically arrange this **** in your head to make you think its a good idea?
> 
> Fool - I noticed you are a little sensitive a few post back, so I am curious to see if you will throw your sucker in the dirt and stomp off the play ground...


Not My Dad, 

Nice first post you arrogant POS. Here we have FlyFishingFool in full coach mode and learning a great deal about our wonderful sport and you have to come and screw it all up. So what if JDM77 likes to eat hard heads and gafftop maybe he is just sticking to his East Texas roots. What is wrong with my questions I was always told there was never a stupid question?


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## yourdad

jbenge - We were all once told that there is "No such thing as a stupid question". I speak for myself and probably most of the board that this sir is a stupid question. I for myself believe that the board as whole is now dumber for having read your question. We can only hope that you will be enlightened of your ignorance and restrain from nitwitted questions such as yours. May God have mercy on your soul? Oh and more whippy-stick lashings to you!


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## superflyguy

yourdad. Yeah, I just got that same tilted head *** look on my face after reading your post. Man, you're funny and seemingly very high strung. My advice to you is to do one of two things: either go fishing or go get you some coochie pie. Either way...you need to relax. Hurling insults is not a way to make new friends or gain respect.

Also, I don't chase hard heads. Never have and never will. I even said that on several occasions in my posts. Please feel free to re-read. What I did say is that *on occasion* I have cast to them when fishing was slow. Kind of like when you resort to shooting a few blackbirds when you're on a dove hunt and the doves are not flying. It's better to be casting or shooting at something than to be standing there bored to tears. As for JDM77, I don't understand why he would want to chase hard heads either. But I guess that's his thing and I'm not one to judge what someone is supposed to like or dislike based on my likes and dislikes. Regardless of what he chases, he's spending money that furthers our sport and that's great in my book. If you really enjoy fly fishing, it should be in yours too.


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## JDM77

Not my dad either,
Dude crawl back in your whole and ****. If you have nothing positive to contribute then just go away, you tool. And unless you have eaten a hardhead then you cant judge.


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## Not For Hire

Anyone know the proper presentation for trophy dog fish?


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## superflyguy

Not For Hire. I belly laughed when I read that. Good humor.


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## jbenge

Not For Hire said:


> Anyone know the proper presentation for trophy dog fish?


Wow....lets not get carried away here.


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## FlySouth

> Flysouth. The triple haul is the act of putting an extra haul on your final forward cast to straighten out your leader which makes your fly lay out as it should.


So youre saying you haul on the back cast, haul on the forward cast, shoot the line, then tug on the line again as it un-rolls?
Not being critical....I've just never heard of this before.




> Please explain how over lining can handicap a fly caster. I'm not understanding.


 
Over-lining dampens a rod action and robs power. 
Distance is achieved by either shooting line (which a fast action will help with) or false casting a lot of line in the air. If you are over lined, your rod is "over weight" and cant carry as much line in the air without bogging down. Also, if you ever need to pick up a lot of line on the water you will again run into bogged down rod if you are over lined.


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## Boatwright

Not For Hire said:


> Anyone know the proper presentation for trophy dog fish?


Down and across, big mend. They almost - ALMOST - always take it on the swing. Sometimes they will take a skittered shrimp.


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## Guest

******,
As for fly line I like the Scientific Anglers Redfish line down on the coast. Although I might try Rio out for my next couple of lines, heard a lot of good things about their stuff. Either way I think you would be doing allright.

As far as overlining is concerned I know this is a topic that seems to ruffle some feathers. I am of the school that you line the rod with the appropriate sized line. Overlining the rod slows the action down, if you underlined the rod it would speed the action up. So why not buy a slower rod instead of a fast action rod if you are going to overline? I fish with the Sage TCR 8 Weight, which is very fast, and have an eight weight line and have no problem casting short or long, you just have to know your rod and what it can do.


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## superflyguy

Flysouth. That's the technique. It's not something everyone knows about or even knows what to call it...and trust me...I didn't come up with it. I'm not that good. A very knowledgeable, well known guide on the gulf coast told me about it and showed me the technique. It works well in the wind. You should try it before you knock.

As for the over lining. We are going to have to agree to disagree...and that's okay with me. I can live with that. But I need to add one argument to your final point. In today's world, with rod materials being better and stronger than ever, there is no chance of over weighting your rod by using one weight larger line; especially if you are using a fast or ultra fast rod. Rods are WAY overbuilt these days and can handle much more than what a one size larger line can give it. Like I said, we will just have to agree to disagree. But I like the fire in your belly...just not the insults.


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## superflyguy

bdill. Your comment of "you just have to know your rod and what it can do" is right on. If I may I would also add, you have to know your cast and what it can do as well. The rod doesn't make the cast, your cast makes the cast. Like in golf, why are golf clubs offered in different materials: graphite, steel, or even hybrid? Why does each material come available with different flex ratings? Why do they make different golf balls with different compression rating options and different cover options? In my opinion, it is to give the end user the choice and options to find what works best for their swing and game. Same applies to fly fishing. You have different rod manufacturers who make many different rods with different flex ratings. And you have different fly line manufacturers who make different lines with different weights and configurations. All these variables allow us (the fly fisher) the opportunity to find the sweet spot and the set up that works best with our cast. There's no right or wrong answer. To agrue it is a waste of time.


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## Guest

Flyfishinfool,
Fair enough response. Whatever helps you, me or anyone else catch fish is fine by me. I know there is more than one way to skin a cat.


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## Ish

FlySouth said:


> If you need to make a 60+ foot cast (which can be common on the coast) and you are up-lined then you will quickly realize you are handicapped.


bingo. get close enough to make a 35-60 foot cast at a Biscayne bone or a KW permit on a calm day and let me know how that works out for you.

but yeah, why learn to to do it right when you can just overline? and who would possibly care about their $600+ rod turning into a noodle in ~6 months?

after reading all this, i've changed my mind and completely and wholeheartedly endorse overlining. thanks for helping me see the light Fool.

benge, jdm, you guys should be ashamed of yourselves for jackin' with this guy. although, it's been a riot watchin' him take it "hook, line, and sinker," and run out a few hundred yards of backing. "what size/color strike indicator?"...classic...

there are times when it might be good to upline a weight, but that is entirely dependent on the lay-up of the inidividual rod. to make a broad statement that recommends overlining is...foolish (no pun intended). having noobs start with a crutch does them no favors in the long run. as they gain experience, they will be able to tell for themselves when (IF) a rod might need to uplined.


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## Ish

hey catskinner, that 8 wt. TCR is about the sweetest red rod out there. i borrowed a friend's for a month or two and loved it. like you i had no issues throwing short with the 8 string. i really wish Sage hadn't discont.'d it. 

did use the 9 TCX and liked it, but have't used any other wt. TCX. ~$800 retail is a little ridiculous.


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## Guest

And since the rod is red I think it gives me an extra 20 feet on my cast on verbal command, it is that good. Overall I really enjoy the TCR and don't think I would get rid of it, but I picked up a Loomis GLX eight weight the other day at the shop and fell in love. I think the Loomis green reel seat gives an extra 30 feet!


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## Ish

by red rod, i meant redfish rod. but with all the chain-yankin' going on on this thread, i understand the misread.

the ccglx is my other fav. got the bright idea i didn't need my 8 anymore (since i was using the TCR so much) and sold it to a friend. all i have left is the 10 and 12. :headknock


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## JDM77

Ish said:


> benge, jdm, you guys should be ashamed of yourselves for jackin' with this guy. although, it's been a riot watchin' him take it "hook, line, and sinker," and run out a few hundred yards of backing. "what size/color strike indicator?"...classic...


:rotfl: but it sure was fun!!!


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## Ish

was it "right sporty?"

for your new avatar:


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## JDM77

Ish said:


> was it "right sporty?"
> 
> for your new avatar:


Awesome Thanks!

FFF - No hard feelings fella just trying to kick some more life into the board and have a little fun... That being said, I still think 'yourdad' is a tool.


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## hand

Ish said:


> by red rod, i meant redfish rod. but with all the chain-yankin' going on on this thread, i understand the misread.
> 
> the ccglx is my other fav. got the bright idea i didn't need my 8 anymore (since i was using the TCR so much) and sold it to a friend. all i have left is the 10 and 12. :headknock


Now you want to sell me the 10?? The 8wt is the rod I use on the sands in the LLM. I use the classic for the west side. The 11wt ccglx is on my christmas list. That green reel seat does reflect sunlight and spooks the fish on occasion.

I have been using Wulff triangle taper but it gets soft in 95+ degree heat. Love to try Rio. Ish wanna let me "borrow" your Rio line to go on your old ccglx??


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## superflyguy

No doubt yourdad is tool. JDM77...if you want to catch and eat hard heads, knock yourself out. Like I said, I don't judge. But its kinda like dating a fat girl...it's all fun until your friends catch you doing it.:rotfl:


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## Ish

dude, the hardhead thing was a joke. the avatar is a joke...they were all messing with you. c'mon...



FlyFishinFool said:


> But its kinda like dating a fat girl...it's all fun until your friends catch you doing it.:rotfl:


you date fat chicks?










hand, the 10 is an Xi2. it's a good rod, just not my favorite. others swear by them. you mentioned you liked the Xi2 so i asked if you wanted this one...

you don't need to borrow the rio, you need to buy one. never heard anyone say they regretted buying a rio (although no doubt some clown will chime in now telling us how bad they suck).

the green reel seat spooked fish... uh, yeah. i'd put money on it being your gi-normous feet trompin' down the flat that spooked 'em.


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## superflyguy

Ish...not usually, but when yours propositioned me, I coudln't refuse.


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## Guest

Big girls are a blanket in the winter, and shade in the summer.


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## Ish

FlyFishinFool said:


> Ish...not usually, but when yours propositioned me, I coudln't refuse.


tee hee hee...


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## hand

I didn't think anything of the realseat until I was standing on the front of the boat and saw a nice glint off it. The guy on the platform saw it asked me what was that so I am still wondering if it does.

I swear it wasn't my tan-ginormus feets 


The Xi2's are different. I like the ccglx's mo better.


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## Ish

i'm sure the sun gliniting off that fancy poling tower had nothing to do with it. it was definitely the reel seat.


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## Ish

quit whining about spooked fish and put up some of that LLM shuff.


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## hand

Some of the feesh have to have a chance to avoid a sore mouth! 

Bring your camera! I will bring the shiney, overpriced, poling platform and the gi-normous feets. 

Gotta esperiment with the white boxes! 

We could spend the morning getting pictures of the worst boat ramp antics in Texas. Hardheads on 2 legs launching boats with ropes!!!!! What the ^#*M)PN!!!


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