# Any hot/accurate 7mm-08 loads?



## Wolf6151

We've been using 43.0 gr. of IMR 4064 pushing a 120 gr. Barnes-X. Anyone have accurate yet still hot loads for a 24 in. barrel Remington?


----------



## THE JAMMER

Here are a couple out of my Remington Model 7 20" bbl. I record my groups like 1.0/.85 which tells me 5 shots went into 1.0, and 4 went into .85.

1.Barnes 110 ttsx: 49.5 rl-15/ ww new brass/ 210 primer/ 2.8 coal/ 3275 fps/ 1.0/.85 

2. Barnes 120 ttsx: 42 rl-15/ ww new brass/ 210 primer/ 2.8 coal/ 2744 fps/ .92/.42"

3. Barnes 140 ttsx: 46 h380/ ww used brass/ 210 primer/ 2.8 coal/ 2765 fps/ .96/.4"

4. Nosler Accubond: 46 imr 4350/ ww used brass/ 210 primer/ 2.8 coal/ 2603 fps/ 
1.07/ .91"

These have all killed deer or hogs, and are very accurate loads out of a 20" sporter weight bbl.

Hope this helps.

THE "LOVE THE 7 08" JAMMER


----------



## SURF Buster

Try these loads.
Varget 42.0gr
140gr. Nosler BTip
Winchester Primer
2800fps
This has been a Deer and Hog Killing Load I can count on.


----------



## CHARLIE

A "hot" accurate load is one gun certainly may not be accurate in your gun. Seems they are all somewhat different.


----------



## Wolf6151

CHARLIE said:


> A "hot" accurate load is one gun certainly may not be accurate in your gun. Seems they are all somewhat different.


I realize that all loads shoot differently in all rifles but the loads are at least a starting point and I'm liking the looks of Jammers #1 load with the 110 gr. bullet. That's a hot load. I'm looking for a good load to shoot antelope with at possible long distances.


----------



## prarie dog

Wolf, what kind of ranges are you thinking? The 110 is going to go to sleep pretty bad past 300yds. If you are planning on shooting beyond 500 you should probably develop a load with a bullet in the 160 to 170 grain class. They won't be as flat to 300 as the lighter loads but beyond that they should really go to work. A real handy load development tool is a ballistic program on a droid or Itouch. You can look at the bullet path at velocities you can develop with that cartridge, real time and component saver.


----------



## Wolf6151

prarie dog said:


> Wolf, what kind of ranges are you thinking? The 110 is going to go to sleep pretty bad past 300yds. If you are planning on shooting beyond 500 you should probably develop a load with a bullet in the 160 to 170 grain class. They won't be as flat to 300 as the lighter loads but beyond that they should really go to work. A real handy load development tool is a ballistic program on a droid or Itouch. You can look at the bullet path at velocities you can develop with that cartridge, real time and component saver.


I've been told to be prepared for shots out to 400 yds.. The 120gr. load I listed above shoots approx. 3040 fps. (not chronographed), but I was looking for something that shoots flat and the Barnes bullets really perform well. As for a ballistic program, it sounds great but I'm digitally challenged. My wife has an Iphone can you recommend a program for that or a website with one?


----------



## prarie dog

My 12 year old shot this one last October at 470yds. It would probably be a good idea to prepare to shoot out to 500. There are usually longer shots to be had too. I took some time and looked at Berger's ballistic calculator to get some rough numbers. The 140s at 2900 look a little better than the 120's at 3000. The 120's are a tick flatter but the 140 has less drift and about 100ft lbs. more energy. You could almost throw your hat over them. You don't need a Barnes bullet to kill Antelope, they are much easier to kill than a Whitetail. My son killed his with his 260AI-- 120 SMK Prairie Dog loads. He knows the ballistics cold and has the poop in his Itouch. Prepare to shoot in a lot of wind, the wind holdoffs can be several feet on longer shots, better yet take a Prairie Dog shooting trip and learn the rifle and load, it could be a very valuable experience. Haven't been able to ask him what software he has on his Itouch.

The heavier bullets cost lots of velocity in this cartridge. If you weren't hunting it would be fine, but you need it to be as flat as possible for hunting. Known distance ranges, ie. target shooting the heavy bullets are fine.


----------



## Wolf6151

I'll be trying a load .5 gr. hotter than the one listed in the 1st post and hope to be getting approx. 3100 fps. from that 120 gr. Barnes-X bullet. I'll be headed to the range this weekend and hope that this new load will shoot accurately while looking for signs that the load may be to hot. 

Do you reccommend a prone bi-pod, sitting bi-pod, or shooting sticks? I'll be shooting a Remington 700 SPS stainless with a Leupold VX-3 4.5-14x40 A.O. scope. I'm also considering a .243 win., not sure which to use. Advice?


----------



## deckh

Wolf, Your 7mm08 will do just fine. My 2 sons and I are taking our .243s.
I tried to post on here yesterday but it wouldn't go through. My friend in Cheyenne said Chug Water has one motel and resturant--Buffalo Lodge and Grill. It is 44 miles from Cheyenne. If you need more info let me know. My friend would be happy to answer your questions. Don't know if you read my posts on the hunting part of the forums. Good Luck. We are heading to Cheyenne on Sept 24 th.


----------



## zrexpilot

I load 51.5 gr of win 760 with a 120 gr bt chronoed at 3150, shoots 5 at or under an inch, its done 3 at .7 at 200 yds.


----------



## Geedubya

FWIW,

My go to load for the 7-08 is either a 140 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip or Accubond over 43 gr. w-748. 
I've used it in several rifles and on many a critter.

GWB


----------



## Wolf6151

Went to the gun range yesterday and tried 43.0, 43.5, and 44.0 gr. of IMR-4064. The problem is that I'll get the first 2 shots in the same hole and then the 3rd will be a flier by about 1-1.5 inches. It's a sporter weight barrel and though I'm shooting slowly, I think the barrel is heating up and causing the flier. I clean after every 3 shots but in the summer it's hard for a barrel to cool down quickly. 

After several trips to the range I've noticed while cleaning the rifle that some bullets leave alot more copper fouling in the barrel than others. Sierra bullets were the best, left very little copper fouling. Barnes bullets were a close 2nd, a little more than Sierra but not much. Nosler BT were the worst and left alot of copper fouling in the barrel. Cleaning after the Nosler BT took alot longer than Sierra or Barnes bullets. 

The Sierra bullets are the most accurate of the 3 tried and though I like the Barnes bullets best for their design and solid makeup, I think I'll shoot the Sierra bullets on my Antelope hunt. From what I've read Antelope aren't very hard to bring down thus a premium hunting bullet like Barnes isn't necessary and accuracy is more important than premium bullet design.


----------



## Geedubya

Typically when I do load development I shoot 3 shot groups. Some folks argue that you need to shoot at least 5 shots to tell. 
Acutally I think all you need is one shot. In fact I would argue that shooting one shot and waiting till your barrel has completely cooled and then shooting another shot is more telling for a hunting rife. How often do you shoot more than once at an animal. As I am a meat hunter and not a paper puncher, I'm most interested in where the first shot is going. Another thing, many rifles do not shoot well until the barrel has been fouled. If you are cleaning after every three shots, your barrel may not have the opportunity to "foul" in. On a 7-08 you probably can go at lest 30 rounds and probably more like 50 rounds before accuracy degrades to the point where the barrel needs cleaning. 
I don't shoot moly coated bullets. So on rifles I will be hunting with, I choose the bullet and the load I will be using over the next few months. I shoot it in and don't clean the barrel till the season is over. 
FWIW, the groups in the picutues I posted were shot back to back, letting the barrel cool only. The six shot group using 43 gr. of W-748 were shots 19 through 25 since I cleaned the barrel. 
Sierra's are reasonably priced. I'd say go to the range, shoot a half dozen rounds at a moderate pace, let the barrel cool. Then shoot 3 to 5 shots more at the same target with 10 to 15 minutes between each shot, or if your close enough, come back on 3 consecutive days and shoot one round at the same target, the same distance. Then you'll know. The old bromide applies-- When you know you know, and you know you know, confidence replaces doubt (or fear).

Best

GWB


----------



## zrexpilot

Wolf6151 said:


> Went to the gun range yesterday and tried 43.0, 43.5, and 44.0 gr. of IMR-4064. The problem is that I'll get the first 2 shots in the same hole and then the 3rd will be a flier by about 1-1.5 inches. It's a sporter weight barrel and though I'm shooting slowly, I think the barrel is heating up and causing the flier. I clean after every 3 shots but in the summer it's hard for a barrel to cool down quickly.
> 
> After several trips to the range I've noticed while cleaning the rifle that some bullets leave alot more copper fouling in the barrel than others. Sierra bullets were the best, left very little copper fouling. Barnes bullets were a close 2nd, a little more than Sierra but not much. Nosler BT were the worst and left alot of copper fouling in the barrel. Cleaning after the Nosler BT took alot longer than Sierra or Barnes bullets.
> 
> The Sierra bullets are the most accurate of the 3 tried and though I like the Barnes bullets best for their design and solid makeup, I think I'll shoot the Sierra bullets on my Antelope hunt. From what I've read Antelope aren't very hard to bring down thus a premium hunting bullet like Barnes isn't necessary and accuracy is more important than premium bullet design.


 try a different powder the flier is the harmonics, you havent found the load it likes, what gr boolit were you shooting.


----------



## prarie dog

Wolf, think you'll do just fine with the Sierra. I've watched several bullet companies like Barnes develop products that are a solution for a problem that hasn't existed for the last 40 years or so. Karamoja Bell killed a bunch of elephants with a 7x57 using solids, he used the same rifle with expanding bullets on plainsgame over a hundred years ago. Compared to what he was hunting a North American Antelope is a peice of cake.


----------



## Wolf6151

I was cleaning after every 3 round because the rifle is new and still in the break in period. Also cleaning helps to cool the barrel and I was trying to keep it from getting overly hot. I was shooting 120 gr. bullets. This new rifle hates the Nosler BT bullet, loves the Sierra Pro Hunter, and the Barnes X bullest are a close 2nd. 

I also wonder if the design of the Barnes X, the very long Ogive, which forces you to load the bullet a little deeper and further off the barrel lands so that the round will fit in the magazine has any effect on accuracy. The shorter more abrupt Ogive on the Sierra bullets allows it to be loaded closer to the barrel lands and still fit in the magazine.


----------



## CHARLIE

Clean after 3 shots ??? After cleaning my gun it doesent shoot till I have shot maybe 6 or 8 rounds through it and then it will tighten up.


----------



## THE JAMMER

CHARLIE said:


> Clean after 3 shots ??? After cleaning my gun it doesent shoot till I have shot maybe 6 or 8 rounds through it and then it will tighten up.


ROGER THAT !!!

Regarding that first shot- you definitely want to know where that first/cold bore shot is going. However, you also want that first shot to be as consistent as possible. So unless you are firing one shot, then waiting 30 min or so for the bbl to completely cool down, and then firing another "first shot," etc.etc. then seeing how close together on the target all of those "first shots" are, is the only way to determine the consistency of that load.

I would say most of the time firing a normal 5 shot string, with reasonable delay between shots, will probably give you the most consistent load for your gun. Then after having developed that load, shoot a cold bore shot to see where it hits relative to the 5 shot pattern that you developed. Then you have the best of both worlds: you know where your cold bore shot/hunting shot will hit, plus it will probably be the most consistene load for that gun/bullet/ et al. Remember if your arrive at the range, the first 5 shot group you try will, by definition, have a cold bore shot- the first one your fire. So if that load groups well, you have a winner.


----------



## CHARLIE

But I might say IMHO that first shot to determine placement should not be shot out of a clean oiled or whatever barrel. It going to change as the barrel gets rid of whatever you cleaned it with. Just sayin..


----------



## Wolf6151

When my dad and I go to the range we always start out by running a dry patch through the barrel a couple times to clean out Kroil that was put there at the end of the last range session. We then shoot 3 rounds and clean the barrel with Barnes Cr-10 solvent, finishing up each cleaning with dry patches. We then fire the next 3 rounds and repeat the cleaning. We follow this pattern until we're done and finish the day with a cleaning session and then run a Kroil patch down the barrel so that the solvent isn't just sitting in the barrel until the next range time. These frequent cleaning sessions are because the rifle is new, breakin period. My first 2 shots of most loads are cutting one hole, it's that 3rd shot that I get a little flier from. We've been using IMR-4064 powder and 120 gr. Sierra or Barnes bullets. I tried the Nosler BT but the rifle wouldn't group those and they left alot of copper fouling in the barrel so they're getting dropped. All shots fired are several minutes apart, checking primers and cases for overpressure signs and allowing the barrel to cool a little. All loads are max. or a hair over max. load recommended in the manuals. Again it's that 3rd shot consistency that I'm looking for or is the first 2 rounds in the same hole consistent enough? My groups aren't bad, I'm just looking for that hot load that will also shoot consistenly tight groups.


----------



## zrexpilot

your not going to get load development during break in maybe close, but cleaning that much isnt goin to group well, finish yer break in, your prolly good to go to cleaning after 10 rounds by now


----------



## Bottomsup

After 30 years of bench rest shooting, rifle building and a lifetime of hunting this is what I have learned. I have posted it here before but here goes again. Quit worring about hot loads, bullet choice, primers, powders etc. Have your gun pillar bedded with a trigger job and quality scope. Clean the barrel every three rounds until its broken in then every ten or so after that will be fine. Some rifles take at least 100 rounds to break in but hot loads and magnum calibers can start to erode a barrel throat in that time period and accuracy will start to drop off. Practice your shooting skills at all ranges and learn your rifle. It does not matter within reason the caliber, bullet or velocity. Shot placement is the number one thing to consider. If you punch a hole through an animals vital organs it going to die regardless of the bullet that did it. My favorite gun to shoot although to small for deer and such is the .17 hmr. I shoot the heads of dove that are out of reach for the 12 gauge and have killed a coyote at 200 yards with it. The best part is zero recoil and watching everything happen through the scope.


----------



## THE JAMMER

CHARLIE said:


> But I might say IMHO that first shot to determine placement should not be shot out of a clean oiled or whatever barrel. It going to change as the barrel gets rid of whatever you cleaned it with. Just sayin..


Agree 1000%. Like Charlie, if I'm hunting, I will have shot 4-5 shots out of my rifle before taking to the field. I have had differences in poi of a coupld of inches before. The first thing I do when I go to the range is fire 3-4 shots to "foul" the bbl.


----------



## CHARLIE

Well the first two shots are with the barrel clean. Try grouping after 5 or 6 shots...
Get away from that cleaning . Shoot a bunch and then try your grouping..And i agree with bottomsup, its all about shot placement I too get kinda "tired" of hearing about hot loads.


----------



## zrexpilot

well for me handloading is about getting accurate screaming loads, why bother if thats not what yer after, might as well shoot factory stuff.
My other load is a hefty charge of rl19 with a 162 gr sst.


----------



## CHARLIE

zrexpilot

Yes sir thats why there Fords and Chevys. But tell me the difference between a factory load at say 100 yards and a "hot screeming load" that may be a few FPS faster at 100 yards..same bullet and caliber..


----------



## zrexpilot

a few ft or a 100 ft faster 100 ft is alot.


----------



## Wolf6151

CHARLIE said:


> zrexpilot
> 
> Yes sir thats why there Fords and Chevys. But tell me the difference between a factory load at say 100 yards and a "hot screeming load" that may be a few FPS faster at 100 yards..same bullet and caliber..


The difference at 100 yds. isn't the problem, you'll never notice it and neither will an animal. The difference at 400 yds. is where I'm concerned.


----------



## Geedubya

zrexpilot said:


> well for me handloading is about getting accurate screaming loads, why bother if thats not what yer after, might as well shoot factory stuff.
> My other load is a hefty charge of rl19 with a 162 gr sst.


I can understand the desire for speed. However, I respectfully differ when one says that speed it the only reason to handload. I respectfully submit that a handloader probably can't match the velocity of some of the factory loads as they have proprietary powders that are not available to the public. I load for the satisfaction, and the ability to custom tailor a load. I shoot a number of single shots. I use an Stoney Point OAL guage. Many times if I want to set the bullet .030" or .050" off the lands, the OAL will not fit in a repeater magazine. What if you are shooting a 17 ackley hornet and want to use an 18 gr Berger, where do you go to get factory. I'm reloading for 59 different chamberings. Many are not available as "factory rounds. 
As to velocity. My 257 Weatherby Accumark, loaded with a 100 gr. Partition does 3,650 FPS. If you hit a deer or hog at 150 yds or under, the meat is bloodshot for about a 1 foot circle around the entry wound. Shooting a 257 Roberts with a 110 Accubond at 2800 fps, you can virtually eat right up to the bullet hole. Being as I'm a meat hunter, that's important.
Depending on what I'm trying to accomplish, there are numerous times I will sacrifice 50 to 100 fps for the sake of accuracy. As state above, there are times when I specifically do not want high velocity.

Book loads in the Nosler manual # 6 show velocites up to 3000 fps for 130 gr. accubonds out of a 260 Remington. Max load of RL-19 at 47 grains was 2970 fps out of Nosler's pressure barrel.

My go to load is well over 150 fps slower, actually about 200 FPS slower. It works fine for me. If I wanted 3000 fps, I would use my 6.5 x 284 or a 264 Win Mag.

An example.
Each group was shot off the bench at Pearland Shooters club, 100 yds. Sako Varmint, 260 Rem, 130 gr. accubond, 43 gr. H414, different OAL's, 3 x 9 variable power scope at 9X. Groups were fired in order from shortest oal to longest oal. Barrel was fouled with three shots after cleaning and before the 5 groups pictured were fired. Rifle was allowed to cool for fifteen minutes or so between each group.
Best
GWB














































I'm using the 2.900 oal loading. for my go to hunting load.



















2750 to 2800 fps works just fine.

GWB


----------



## prarie dog

GWB, that 2.900 load is the only, I repeat only reason to handload. I built a 260 AI for my son that hasn't produced that level of accuracy but it shoots well enough for him to routinely kill Prairie Dogs at 500. The 6.5 is a fantastic caliber!!


----------



## Geedubya

Wolf6151 said:


> The difference at 100 yds. isn't the problem, you'll never notice it and neither will an animal. The difference at 400 yds. is where I'm concerned.


Just going off Nosler tables,

120 gr .284 cal bullet, .417 BC, 3100 fps, 300 yd. zero

0 is 1.5" high
100 is 3.5" high
200 is 4.2" high
300 is 0
400 is -10.1" (low)
500 is -27.2"

same bullet at 3200 fps, 300 yd zero

+1.5" @ 0
+3.2" @ 100
+3.9" @ 200
0 @ 300
-9.4" @ 400
-25.4 @ 500

not much difference between 3100 and 3200 for 120 grainer.

A 140 grain bullet, .284 cal, .485 BC, 2800 fps

+1.5 @0
+4.4 @ 100
+5.1 @ 200
0 @ 300
-12 @ 400
-31.7 @500

On your hunt, will you be dialing or holding over. You might want to look at MPBR calc for you rifle.

Best

GWB


----------



## Geedubya

prarie dog said:


> GWB, that 2.900 load is the only, I repeat only reason to handload. I built a 260 AI for my son that hasn't produced that level of accuracy but it shoots well enough for him to routinely kill Prairie Dogs at 500. The 6.5 is a fantastic caliber!!


No offense meant, but I've not hunted with factory loads in so long. I guess I'm kind of anal, but each year I decide on what rifle/caliber/bullet/load combo that I am going to hunt with during the season. 
Starting in January after hunting season ends, I develop the loads, go to the range, test them, try them out on hogs between February and October, then employ them in taking game between November and January. Its just what I do. Have been for almost 20 years now. Along the way I get to enjoy a lot of pork roasts and pulled pork sandwiches.

GWB


----------



## prarie dog

Geedubya said:


> No offense meant, but I've not hunted with factory loads in so long. I guess I'm kind of anal.
> 
> GWB


Me too. I haven't bought factory ammo for anything but rimfires ever. I was taught how to handload when I was real small. My dad handloaded for the same reason you do, picked it up from him. The next step in load development for the 260AI is experimenting with seating depth. Everything so far has been loaded in the lands from light to hard and the best groups have been about half inch. Good but not great. This rifle is chambered with a short throat so that everything will fit in the magazine. Mike Bryant does nice work.


----------



## THE JAMMER

Geedubya said:


> I can understand the desire for speed. However, I respectfully differ when one says that speed it the only reason to handload. I respectfully submit that a handloader probably can't match the velocity of some of the factory loads as they have proprietary powders that are not available to the public. I load for the satisfaction, and the ability to custom tailor a load. I shoot a number of single shots. I use an Stoney Point OAL guage. Many times if I want to set the bullet .030" or .050" off the lands, the OAL will not fit in a repeater magazine. What if you are shooting a 17 ackley hornet and want to use an 18 gr Berger, where do you go to get factory. I'm reloading for 59 different chamberings. Many are not available as "factory rounds.
> As to velocity. My 257 Weatherby Accumark, loaded with a 100 gr. Partition does 3,650 FPS. If you hit a deer or hog at 150 yds or under, the meat is bloodshot for about a 1 foot circle around the entry wound. Shooting a 257 Roberts with a 110 Accubond at 2800 fps, you can virtually eat right up to the bullet hole. Being as I'm a meat hunter, that's important.
> Depending on what I'm trying to accomplish, there are numerous times I will sacrifice 50 to 100 fps for the sake of accuracy. As state above, there are times when I specifically do not want high velocity.
> 
> Book loads in the Nosler manual # 6 show velocites up to 3000 fps for 130 gr. accubonds out of a 260 Remington. Max load of RL-19 at 47 grains was 2970 fps out of Nosler's pressure barrel.
> 
> My go to load is well over 150 fps slower, actually about 200 FPS slower. It works fine for me. If I wanted 3000 fps, I would use my 6.5 x 284 or a 264 Win Mag.
> 
> An example.
> Each group was shot off the bench at Pearland Shooters club, 100 yds. Sako Varmint, 260 Rem, 130 gr. accubond, 43 gr. H414, different OAL's, 3 x 9 variable power scope at 9X. Groups were fired in order from shortest oal to longest oal. Barrel was fouled with three shots after cleaning and before the 5 groups pictured were fired. Rifle was allowed to cool for fifteen minutes or so between each group.
> Best
> GWB
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using the 2.900 oal loading. for my go to hunting load.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2750 to 2800 fps works just fine.
> 
> GWB


GWB,

The more I read your posts the more I like them. Roger that on "quest for speed." I think too often we try to "SQUEEZE TOO MUCH" out of a particular caliber/bullet. If you reload you usually have a lot of guns. I think instead of trying to wring the most velocity we can out of a particular caliber, often time with suffering accuracy, we just need to move up a caliber to achieve that speed. I know for a fact that my 264 winmag will shoot a 120 gr bullet faster than my 7mm-08.

So why tax the integrity of that 7mm bbl., and unnecessarily erode it. Shoot a "good velocity for that bullet/caliber" and kill something. Very seldom has my highest velocity for a load also been the most accurate.

The archery community is finally coming around to this. The quest for speed often times does not necessarily relate to the most accuracy or smoothness for sure. As I have always said, "You know your arrow is going to go completely through the animal, so why do you care how far on the other side of the deer it ends up??"

Keep it up Geedubya.


----------



## CHARLIE

I dont think anyone was bashing reloading. I think a lot of us do but not to get that screaming hot load but for accuracy. If I want a hot screaming round I go to a hotter bigger gun. And that animal at 1, 2, or 3 hundred yards is going to wake up dead and not have a clue as to how fast the bullet was going that killed him. 

Sorry but I am just an old practical guy that has finally learned to deal with reality and not get caught up in all the hype..But if thats what you want to do have at it and enjoy. Good shootin


----------



## Bottomsup

I also meant to say that to each his own. I load and I have had great fun with it. Everyone should do what makes them happy. As I got older I found that I can kill any animal just as dead with a factory load as my handloads at any distance. Its the same old thing like if you want your car to go faster its better to use a bigger engine than to hot rod the smaller engine. Same goes for rifles. I also wanted to add that I shoot my gun at the range about three times for check and barrel fouling before a hunting trip. I never clean my gun until after the season and have found that it always shoots about .5" low on a fresh clean barrel then the groups are one hole again and on spec. I will shoot any round be it a 25-06, 270, 30-06, 7mm, 300, etc. and be confident I can kill any game such as deer out to 500 yards. My best to date was 650 yards on a whitetail freehand standing in the back of a truck with a 7mm mag. Two vital shots out of three. Why did I shoot? Because I could see his horns with my bare eyes at 650 yards! How did I hit him? Because I knew my gun and we were like a team. Over 500 rounds out of her. You have to ask yourself why does or did the military and law enforcement use a .308 for a sniper rifle? Its kinda slow but very accurate and very predictable. Weather wont affect this round as much as a hotter round and it will still get the job done. The wind drift as well as the drop is more predictable. Yes it drops more than others but it all comes back to shot placement and you being confident in your ability. I guess I am trying to make the point that its more fun for me to spend my time and money enjoying the trip and experience than to worry about the equipment I am using but then again i dont care if I kill something or not. Thats just the iceing on the cake.


----------



## Bottomsup

If you wnat to learn more and fast buy the handloading books by P.O. Ackley and also subscribe to precision shooting magazine.


----------



## THE JAMMER

Bottomsup said:


> After 30 years of bench rest shooting, rifle building and a lifetime of hunting this is what I have learned. I have posted it here before but here goes again. Quit worring about hot loads, bullet choice, primers, powders etc. Have your gun pillar bedded with a trigger job and quality scope. Clean the barrel every three rounds until its broken in then every ten or so after that will be fine. Some rifles take at least 100 rounds to break in but hot loads and magnum calibers can start to erode a barrel throat in that time period and accuracy will start to drop off. Practice your shooting skills at all ranges and learn your rifle. It does not matter within reason the caliber, bullet or velocity. Shot placement is the number one thing to consider. If you punch a hole through an animals vital organs it going to die regardless of the bullet that did it. My favorite gun to shoot although to small for deer and such is the .17 hmr. I shoot the heads of dove that are out of reach for the 12 gauge and have killed a coyote at 200 yards with it. The best part is zero recoil and watching everything happen through the scope.


Wow benchrest shooting and building rifles for 30 yrs- that's impressive. Your profile says you're 42, so tell us what kind of rifles did you build when you were 12?? I don't know anything about bench rest shooting. Is there a 12 and under division??


----------



## Geedubya

Bottomsup said:


> My best to date was 650 yards on a whitetail freehand standing in the back of a truck with a 7mm mag. Two vital shots out of three. Why did I shoot? Because I could see his horns with my bare eyes at 650 yards! How did I hit him? Because I knew my gun and we were like a team.


Sir,

you're evidently a much better shot than I. I generally restrict my offhand shots to 75 yds. or less on game. Using shooting stix and employing a sling, I'll go to 200. I've made one shot over 400 yds, but then I'm a short range meat hunter. It was a known distance that had been previously laser ranged multiple times to be between 590 and 600 yds. I had a 250 yd zero and knew my ballistics out to 600 yds. I knew the bottom of the feeder which the deer was under to be 8'. I figured the doe to be 3' at the shoulder, give or take. I held what I judged to be 1 foot under the feeder and two feet to the right to account 48" of drop and 24" for drift. My elevation was right. The drift ended up being about 40" Hit the doe in the spleen.

But just for giggles and grins, 
Lets just look at a .284 cal bullet, say 140 gr. (a popular weight for 7 mag). Say muzzle velocity of 3150, Ballistic co-effecient of +/- .407, sight height 1.5", use an arbitrary alitiude of 300' above sea level, 75 degrees F. Figure a 7 mph wind at 90 degrees.
Using a 250 yd zero, by my calculations you've got +/- 74" of drop and 24" of drift. Pretty darn good to be standing in the back of a pickup, shooting at an unknown distance, most likely holding over rather than dialing, and connecting twice out of three shots, in a vital area of 8". 1MOA at 650 yds. Not too shabby, for factory ammo out of a commercial chamber.
No offense, but do you play the lottery? I might like to invest.

GWB


----------



## Wolf6151

When I started this thread I was originally looking to develope a hot and accurate load for the 7mm-08 so that I could shoot as flat a trajectory as possible for long range shots on antelope. I was hoping to push a 120 gr. bullet to about 3100 fps. accurately. The more I read these latest posts the more I remember that veolicity and flat trajectory are nice but not a necessity, accuracy is more important. I've known this but it's good to be reminded of it occaisionally. Now I still think that the sporter weight barrel has something to do with my 3rd shot fliers since the first 2 shots are cutting one small hole. There's some really good info. in this thread, I never realized the effect on accuracy of bullet seating depth that GWB showed and honestly I could look at Bottomsup avatar all day long (you got a bigger version of that pic?) Keep up the good info., I'm learning a few things and remembering other things.


----------



## THE JAMMER

Geedubya said:


> Sir,
> 
> you're evidently a much better shot than I. I generally restrict my offhand shots to 75 yds. or less on game. Using shooting stix and employing a sling, I'll go to 200. I've made one shot over 400 yds, but then I'm a short range meat hunter. It was a known distance that had been previously laser ranged multiple times to be between 590 and 600 yds. I had a 250 yd zero and knew my ballistics out to 600 yds. I knew the bottom of the feeder which the deer was under to be 8'. I figured the doe to be 3' at the shoulder, give or take. I held what I judged to be 1 foot under the feeder and two feet to the right to account 48" of drop and 24" for drift. My elevation was right. The drift ended up being about 40" Hit the doe in the spleen.
> 
> But just for giggles and grins,
> Lets just look at a .284 cal bullet, say 140 gr. (a popular weight for 7 mag). Say muzzle velocity of 3150, Ballistic co-effecient of +/- .407, sight height 1.5", use an arbitrary alitiude of 300' above sea level, 75 degrees F. Figure a 7 mph wind at 90 degrees.
> Using a 250 yd zero, by my calculations you've got +/- 74" of drop and 24" of drift. Pretty darn good to be standing in the back of a pickup, shooting at an unknown distance, most likely holding over rather than dialing, and connecting twice out of three shots, in a vital area of 8". 1MOA at 650 yds. Not too shabby, for factory ammo out of a commercial chamber.
> No offense, but do you play the lottery? I might like to invest.
> 
> GWB


LMAO-- Kinda like my post before yours about building rifles when you're 12.


----------



## Geedubya

THE JAMMER said:


> LMAO-- Kinda like my post before yours about building rifles when you're 12.


10/4 on that there Jammer. But IIRC, wasn't Mozart a child prodigy. "Quien Sabe" as the Mexicans say!

I could have gone on, but perhaps one could catch my drift.

GWB.


----------



## Geedubya

Wolf6151 said:


> When I started this thread I was originally looking to develope a hot and accurate load for the 7mm-08 so that I could shoot as flat a trajectory as possible for long range shots on antelope. I was hoping to push a 120 gr. bullet to about 3100 fps. accurately. The more I read these latest posts the more I remember that veolicity and flat trajectory are nice but not a necessity, accuracy is more important. I've known this but it's good to be reminded of it occaisionally. Now I still think that the sporter weight barrel has something to do with my 3rd shot fliers since the first 2 shots are cutting one small hole. There's some really good info. in this thread, I never realized the effect on accuracy of bullet seating depth that GWB showed and honestly I could look at Bottomsup avatar all day long (you got a bigger version of that pic?) Keep up the good info., I'm learning a few things and remembering other things.


Wolf,

What is the mossy oak slogan, it's not a passion, its and obsession. I can relate to that.
Not preaching, but remember, this is for fun. My posst were not intended to discourage.
Not trying to add too much more to the equation, but on Remington's, I do a trigger job, and free float the barrel. I take the barreled action out of the stock I'll get a 3' dowel anywhere from 1/2" to 1" depending on the opening in the barrel channel of the stock. Many times on Reimingtons they will have a "pressure bump" that will be three to four inches from the tip of the stock. I will wrap a piece of sandpaper around the dowel and staple it so it won't slip. I then sand down the stock to the point where the pressure is relieved and nothing is touching the barrel along its length in front of the recoil lug. A good check to see whether you've opened the channel enough is to put the action back in the stock and tighten down on the action screws. Then holding the rifle pointed up with one hand, slap the stock with your other hand, not hard but with some force. If you hear the stock snick against the barrel, you may want to open it up a little more. The dollar bill trick works but you may need a little more space. I've also shimmed the action between the stock and receiver with small pieces of poster board stock or even aluminum foil in order to raise the barrel up enough to were I don't have to take off so much from the stock. Some work, but not overly time consuming.

I shoot a number of rifles quite of rifles quite often. Some loads I've been tinkering with off and on for 10 years or better. I think we can sometimes get to obsessed with one hole accuracy. From my experience, true one hole groups are an anomaly, not the norm. I'd say develop a load to your liking. If you can get a 1" group and you are satisfied with the velocity, you can tinker with the oal. Some rifles like different bullets. I've always had good luck with Nolser. Decide what range you are going to zero at, download a ballistics program, then practice at 200 and 300 yds. Know what your rifle is capable of. In the insurance business they used to have a saying. When you know you know, and you know you know, confidence replaces fear. I have found that having confidence in my load and rifle sure makes a diffeernce when taking game.

You were asking about a ballistics program, There are a number of them I do believe JBM ballistics has an I phone app. Do a google search for "ballistics programs on both your computer and phone. I downloaded "Isnipe" for my Iphone and use it in the field to do reasonably quick "what if's".
Good luck and have fun.

GWB


----------



## CHARLIE

Interesting stuff here. I enjoyed all the reading..Lots of good stuff on this reloading board. I have always "free floated" my hunting rifles and glass bedded them myself and adjusted Remington triggers. But dont get away from pressure points on barrels. Sometimes they work wonders. I try to stay away from that on hunting guns because of the constant changes the stocks go through. Not so bad now with the new stocks. But you see "wedging" barrels a lot on target guns.. Good shootin guys.

Note.. lightweight barrels can be helped "sometimes" by bedding them all the way. Thats whats fun about making a gun shoot. Its all the different things you can try.


----------



## Wolf6151

GWB, One of the first things we did with this new rifle was to take out the pressure point and free float the barrel, we also shimmed the action as you describe and adjusted the trigger down. The rifle seems to like Sierra and Barnes bullets but hates Nosler BT's. I think we've found a load that works well, 44 gr. of IMR-4064 with a 120 gr. bullet. That load should be pushing the bullet around 3100 fps., theoretical not chronographed. I consider this hot enough as long as the accuracy maintains itself. Like I said it will make one small hole with the first 2 shots but then starts to open up with the 3rd round. I now need to get back out there and shoot this load some more to build that confidence in the round and rifle and myself. The next trip to the range is going to be a verification that this load shoots well and then begin to shoot at 200 yds. and 300 yds. I wish PSC had a longer range than 300 yds., it would be nice to shoot to shoot some truly long range occasionally.


----------



## Bottomsup

Jammer you can kiss my arse. LOL. I was born with a gun in my hand and have been competitively shooting since a very young age. I shot my first deer at age six and learned to run a lathe at 11. I manufacture aircraft engines for a living and sell to NASA and the US Navy. So please keep your smart comments to yourself. If you doubt me name the place, time and money you wish to wager and will back up my posts. You can even invite everyone from 2cool to watch. As for the 650 yard shot it was with a modified Remington 700 7mm mag and hand loads. Yes I held over and the deer was running behind a doe. Could I do it again? Who the hell knows. It all goes back to what I said earlier. Learn your gun!


----------



## Bottomsup

Always free float the barrel.


----------



## Bottomsup

Wolf, sorry for hijacking your post. If you want factual information I am willing to share what I have learned. I dont know it all but I did learn from some of the best. Thomas Gonzales aka Speedy and Mobe Renolds who tested barrels for Ed Shilling. Mobe schooled me on pillar bedding with devcon and a dial indicator to get it perfect. Speedy schooled me on machining and chambering barrels the right way as well as trueing up factory actions and bolts. I would also like to remind everyone to use ear protection when at the range or bird hunting. I am several tones deaf in my left ear that faced the muzzel blast being a right hand shooter.


----------



## Geedubya

Wolf6151 said:


> I wish PSC had a longer range than 300 yds., it would be nice to shoot to shoot some truly long range occasionally.


I am not a member, but IIRC Bayou Rifles has a 1000 yd range in Juliff, off 288. Good luck, and good shooting. After reading your posts I have no doubt you'll do fine. Be sure and post some pix of your hunt when you return. 
GWB


----------



## THE JAMMER

Bottomsup said:


> Jammer you can kiss my arse. LOL. I was born with a gun in my hand and have been competitively shooting since a very young age. I shot my first deer at age six and learned to run a lathe at 11. I manufacture aircraft engines for a living and sell to NASA and the US Navy. So please keep your smart comments to yourself. If you doubt me name the place, time and money you wish to wager and will back up my posts. You can even invite everyone from 2cool to watch. As for the 650 yard shot it was with a modified Remington 700 7mm mag and hand loads. Yes I held over and the deer was running behind a doe. Could I do it again? Who the hell knows. It all goes back to what I said earlier. Learn your gun!


I think you missed my comment. I said I was impressed. Can't you take a complement?? I'm even more impressed now that you've changed the original story in which you said you made 2 of those off hand 650 yard shots standing in the bed of your pickup. Now above you say it was at a *running* deer. So was it one or two hits on that running deer?? One in and of itself is incredible, but If two, that's truly amazng. Best shooting I have ever heard of.

Still didn't hear what kinds of guns you were making when you were 12. Shotguns, rifles ???? No need to "meet somewhere," or bet money, pr have witnesses. Just spell it out. I know others are interested as well, because they have contacted me. When I was 12, making a sling shot was about my limit.

Have to agree with your statement regarding "learning your gun" though. Absolutely imperative. The old statement "beware the man who shoots only one gun" certainly has merit.

By the way I spent 9 years in the Navy in aviation and know most of the engine manufacturers, even personally know some of the current high executives (current CEO of General Dynamics is an ex squadron mate of mine. Jay Johson's picture is on my wall at home with me in a squadron picture. He was also the Chief of Naval Operations/Joint Chiefs of Staff during the Clinton years). Try googling general dynamics, Jay Johnson. He and I have been on liberty together many times.

I'd be curious to know which of those companies you work for, what engines you make, and what aircraft they go into. I haven't kept up with all the current aircraft and their power plants. Used to know them all. Are they jet, turbo prop, or piston??

Oh also, I *FLEW* Navy jets- in combat. That avatar is a picture of me landing a single seat, supesonic F-8 Crusader on the USS Oriskany in the Gulf of Tonkin in the summer of 1972 coming back from one of my 85 missions over there. It had a Pratt and Whitney J-57 with afterburner gave just short of 20,000 pounds of thrust- pretty anemic by today's standards. Same engine the B-52 had 8 of, but without afterburner.

Just curious, did you serve??


----------



## CHARLIE

Bottomsup

Doesent take long to read between your lines... Im with the Jammer..


----------



## prarie dog

Guys, a few facts before you draw up lines. In the 70's a good friend of mine's daughter age 10 or so won outright the 100 yd aggregate at a NBRSA match in San Angelo shooting against 30 or so good bench shooters. This same young lady made the National team when she was in her late teens. It was a cloudy cool day and she didn't have to dope any wind or mirage. I watched this girls father kill an Antelope a few years later in Wyoming with a 30-06 at 745 steps. I know because I stepped it off. My 12 year old has a custom rifle, he didn't build it but it's not that big of a stretch, he also loads his own ammo. I watch but he does fine. Bottomsup didn't say he routinely makes those offhand shots, he did say, he doesn't know if he could do it again. It's a stretch to think he could do machine work real young, but it is possible.


----------



## Wolf6151

Geedubya said:


> I am not a member, but IIRC Bayou Rifles has a 1000 yd range in Juliff, off 288. Good luck, and good shooting. After reading your posts I have no doubt you'll do fine. Be sure and post some pix of your hunt when you return.
> GWB


I've never been to the Bayou Rifles range but it's actually closer to my house that PSC, but my dad is a member at PSC and it's much closer to his house. I will definetly be taking pics. of this trip and will post some when we get back. I'm sorry for the ugly tone this thread has taken.

This is 2Cool everyone here is suppossed to be friendly and respectful.


----------



## Geedubya

And perhaps I'm the discordant note. Being a Noobie, that was not my intention. So here's wishing you and yours the best. Hope you have a ball on your hunt. Love to see pix when you return.

Best
GWB


----------



## Bottomsup

Jammer, I was just giving it back to you. No hard feelings at all OK? I started my company 18 years ago and I manufacture engines for unmaned aircraft. I designed and manufactured the entire engine not just the rebuilding of them. Nasa's Dryden Flight Research Center uses my designs because of their power to weight ratio. They wont tell me what they are doing with them. The Navy just likes to shoot them out of the sky which is cool because they only have to live a few minutes. Jeb Bush bought one from me for a model and Eddie Hill the Top Fuel Drag Racer is a customer of mine. Also Henry Gregoriets of the original Black Sheep Squadron bought one for a Corsair. Its kick *** that you got to fly and I am jealous of that. I didnt serve but wish I would have. So now the story about the 650 yard shot did not change at all. I just gave you more details. I hit the deer twice out of three shots. Where the third went I do not know and I did not know I killed the deer until I went to look. I also have two witnesses that watched. One of which is my father. He has more patience than a saint and I was very mature at a young age so yes I did learn to build guns and reload at a very young age. I also enjoyed making my own solid fuel rocket engines. I cant believe I still have my eyes and arms. LOL I currently manufacture my own diesel fuel and sell some of it to others. I have been contacted by Lockhead to build a heavy fuel engine for a drone. Many of my engines are flying the Texas/Mexico border as we type. So enough of all this **** and lets get back to the original post.


----------



## THE JAMMER

Bottomsup said:


> Jammer, I was just giving it back to you. No hard feelings at all OK? I started my company 18 years ago and I manufacture engines for unmaned aircraft. I designed and manufactured the entire engine not just the rebuilding of them. Nasa's Dryden Flight Research Center uses my designs because of their power to weight ratio. They wont tell me what they are doing with them. The Navy just likes to shoot them out of the sky which is cool because they only have to live a few minutes. Jeb Bush bought one from me for a model and Eddie Hill the Top Fuel Drag Racer is a customer of mine. Also Henry Gregoriets of the original Black Sheep Squadron bought one for a Corsair. Its kick *** that you got to fly and I am jealous of that. I didnt serve but wish I would have. So now the story about the 650 yard shot did not change at all. I just gave you more details. I hit the deer twice out of three shots. Where the third went I do not know and I did not know I killed the deer until I went to look. I also have two witnesses that watched. One of which is my father. He has more patience than a saint and I was very mature at a young age so yes I did learn to build guns and reload at a very young age. I also enjoyed making my own solid fuel rocket engines. I cant believe I still have my eyes and arms. LOL I currently manufacture my own diesel fuel and sell some of it to others. I have been contacted by Lockhead to build a heavy fuel engine for a drone. Many of my engines are flying the Texas/Mexico border as we type. So enough of all this **** and lets get back to the original post.


I appreciate your getting back with the details of your business. Very interesting and impressive. I used to shoot some of those drones out of the sky on missile shoots. Best training mission ever.

Agree- back to business. Everyone can have their own opinion on this- no need to beat a dead horse, or deer in this case.LOL. No hard feelings here either.


----------



## Screeminreel

You ALL impress the daylights out of me. 

That said, back to the load development. 

I cannot argue with whats been said, the top end loads work well sometimes and then not sometimes. I have had some which shot one hole groups at 100 only to find at 300 they wouldn't stay within a 3" circle. Same can be said the other route as well. I have however found that with 90% of the loads I shoot, the best overall accuracy has been in the top third of the load data for that particular combination of components. 

I, like most here have been shooting and loading since I was very young, just something our family did. My pop had me on his knee when I was 3-4yrs old handing him bullets and primers and such, and by 6 I knew how it all went together, and by 8 was loading my own, with his supervision. Heck I have a couple of rifles that have never seen a factory round. 

That all said, heed the advice that has been given. I do as most after the break in of a barrel. I shoot it. When the accuracy opens up which is usually around 40 - 50 rounds for most of what I shoot, I clean it up really well then sit down and run enough rounds back through it to know it's back to doing what it needs to do, then I put it up. I shoot different ones all year, so I really never have them siting in a safe with an oiled tube on them. They are for the most part all ready to go shoot a hog at any given time. 

I usually work up my hunting loads in mid summer when temps are hot so I know that I have a bit of cushion on the pressures when it get cooler. Since most years we might have 80+ degree weather well into November, I at least know my loads will stay somewhat consistent. I read all of the post here and from what I see your only trying the one powder. This isn't such a bad thing, but there are others which might change your harmonics just enough that the third shot variable might go away. I also agree that it's the heat which is causing it and this could also be relieved some by using a slightly slower or even a different brand powder of the same burn rate. 

Thats the thing about loading, you can change a little here and there and end up in the same place with different combo's. I also shoot out at PSC and would be happy to meet up with you if you needed to use a chrono for checking your velocities or what not. Heck I can even haul out a couple of mobile presses I have if you wanted to play with seating depth or such. 

I will be in town this weekend but might be out fishing a bit, and this coming week and a half is pretty much a wash. After that however I can meet up after work or on the weekend if your interested. 

Shoot me a PM or email and let me know.

LAter,


----------



## THE JAMMER

*I usually work up my hunting loads in mid summer when temps are hot so I know that I have a bit of cushion on the pressures when it get cooler*


Very sage advice!!! as was the rest of Screemin's post. The only comment I would make is that often, the lowest of the recommended loads, especially for nosler, is their recommended load for accuracy.


----------



## Bottomsup

These are my kind of groups. Dot was .250" for aim point at 100 yards. Gun 22-250, Hart 26" barrel, McMillan stock, pillar bedded, trued action and bolt, Kelby rings and bases, Leupold 6.5-20 scope, polished Remington trigger. You should see the look on peoples faces when you put a business card on the backstop with a .250" dot. Most at the range couldnt hit the card.


----------



## CHARLIE

Now to the other side. I am a prctical guy that has been around a long time. The last elk I killed a few years back was with on old outdated remington 30-06. Everything factory except I bedded the action and floated the barrel. Ammo was a case full of 4831 in winchester brass which equaled to maybe 62 gr of powder. Max was maybe 64 if I remember. Think the MV was about 2900 (who cares) with 165 gr hornady spire point. She will shoot about 1 MOA most of the time which is really Ok with me to hunt with. Jus saying that elk and many others plus mulies had no idea what killed him. Now if I was a paper shooter I may have to change things a bit. But being a hunter I try to be practical and keep things in perspective. 1 inch is good enough for me to hunt with Good shootin and hunting guys.. 

Another story used to win 200 yard benchrest shoots at Carter country, win a turkey and then raffle it off to make some money. No it wasnt the old 06 it was a Remington 700 7 MM mag. shooting against all calibers and rifle types, bull barrels and all


----------



## Wolf6151

The Remington 700 SPS stainless in 7mm-08 is frustrating me today. My dad and I went to PSC range Sunday and tried some different loads in our continuing pursuit of a consistently accurate load. Nothing shot well today, looked like shotgun patterns. We're going to now switch powders and try IMR-4320 and see if that helps. It is frustrating but I won't get rid of the rifle, we'll just keep trying new things. I'm even considering putting the pressure point back in the stock. It seems that every other time we go to the range we get good results and just when we think we're finding something that shoots well and just looking for some consistency on the next trip, the gun shoots poorly on the next trip. This rifle is trying my patience. 

On the bright side though, I have this same rifle in .243 and took it to the range for the first time ever today and it's stacking bullets in the same hole at 100 yds. I'm not going to take the pressure point out of this one like I did the 7mm-08 though I'll probably adjust the trigger down a few pounds. Ultimately this will be my daughters rifle but in the mean time it's cutting one very small hole and may be my go to rifle on the September antelope hunt if I can't get the 7mm-08 to shoot right by then.


----------



## CHARLIE

Yup you mite try the pressure point or wedging the barrel. Sometimes thats the answer. good luck


----------



## Bottomsup

Wolf, I suspect something else on your 7mm-08. Bad scope, loose mounts, very copper fouled barrel, action in a bind in the stock?


----------



## Wolf6151

Bottomsup said:


> Wolf, I suspect something else on your 7mm-08. Bad scope, loose mounts, very copper fouled barrel, action in a bind in the stock?


The scope is a Leupold VX3 4.5x14 with Leupold mounts, all screws are tight and have been checked. The barrel has been cleaned often with Barnes Cr-10 solvent and the gun is new, only approx. 60-65 rounds down the tube. I'm not sure about the action binding, not familiar with that can you explain how that happens? Thanks. The pressure point was taken out of the stock in the front end, the action was shimmed slightly to add distance between the barrel and stock, and the trigger was adjusted down to approx. 3.5 lbs.. The action has not been glassed but it's a synthetic stock. We're going to change powders and back off on the load a little and see if that helps the consistency.


----------



## CHARLIE

"Action was shimmed slightly to add distance between barrel and stock." Hmmm Why not remove part of the stock to give room for the barrel and glass bed the stock ??


----------



## Bottomsup

I dont like the action being shimmed idea at all. Thats what could be causing the bind. The action should sit perfectly in the stock the full length. If you were to take a dial indicator and place it so you could measure movement between the barrel and stock forearm then with the action screws snugg tighten them down and the dial indicator should not move. If it does the action is not setting flat in the stock and is in a bind. Thats the only reason a pressure point in the forearm may help but a rifle will always shoot better with a bedded action and a free floated barrel. One of the other things I do is to lap the scope rings after they are mounted to also make sure no bind is placed on the scope. You may be shocked to find out just how far out they can be. There is no reason your 7mm-08 wont shoot on par with your .243. I dont think chasing loads is going help right now.


----------



## Bottomsup

On many target rifles the action is glued into the stock with no screws to prevent any binding, flexing or movement in the action.


----------



## deckh

Have you torqued the action/floorplate bolts/screws to the correct torque using an inch/pound torque wrench???


----------



## Wolf6151

deckh said:


> Have you torqued the action/floorplate bolts/screws to the correct torque using an inch/pound torque wrench???


No, I've never done that to any rifle I've owned and have never had issues like this before. We're going to take the shim out from under the action and put the pressure point back in the forearm and see if that helps. We're also switching powders to IMR-4320 and am going to work on some loads. Hopefully that will do the trick. I've even been looking into buying a new stock, a bell and carlson medalist Alaskan II from Stockysstocks.com. I don't care for the stock that came on the rifle from Remington anyway. We'll keep playing with it and find something that works. The pursuit of accuracy is the fun part anyway and we'll get it to shoot eventually.


----------



## THE JAMMER

Wolf6151 said:


> No, I've never done that to any rifle I've owned and have never had issues like this before. We're going to take the shim out from under the action and put the pressure point back in the forearm and see if that helps. We're also switching powders to IMR-4320 and am going to work on some loads. Hopefully that will do the trick. I've even been looking into buying a new stock, a bell and carlson medalist Alaskan II from Stockysstocks.com. I don't care for the stock that came on the rifle from Remington anyway. We'll keep playing with it and find something that works. The pursuit of accuracy is the fun part anyway and we'll get it to shoot eventually.


In the very first response to your post, I recommended RL15, H380, and IMR 4350 after my having tried almost a hundred different combinations. Did you try any of these powders??? My gosh shims, pressure points, torque this, torque that, new stock?? KISS. Try some powders that work.

If you have a load that puts 3-4 shots pretty good, but you then have a flyer, shoot it again to see if it might have been you. If it does the same thing, you are obviously on the right track, then play with your seating depth, change primers, etc. I have often had that happen, and just by changing seating depth by ten thousandths, budda bing, budda boom. Right in there.

Good luck


----------



## Ernest

Agree with Jammer. Far to much messing with the weapon, far to little load developement. Thats what I see here. 

When you show up at the range, have at least 6 (if not ten) "load groups" to try out. Thats different projectiles/powder combo's. If I'm just scanning for loads, I shoot three shot groups. If I am getting close to what I want and barely tweeking a load, its always 5 shoot groups. 

Here is how I do it with a new weapon - after break in - start low, and work up with a bullet that you like and a powder that actually works. Not, what you have laying around, but a powder that tends to work with that cal. Start low and working up. 

Then, after you are done with that combo, clean the weapon, foul it, and move to the next projectile/charge combo. 

Use towels cooled in your cooler to mitigate barrel temps. Shoot in the shade as well. Keep the ammo cool. 

I went thru at least 8 different projectile/powder combos on the last AR shooter. Weird thing was, what my old Colt loves, my Rock River didn't. End result, I have four loads I can count on, day in, day out, to perform better than 1 MOA for that weapon. 

I went thru 6 different bullet/powder combo's on my 308. My Grendel, I must have gone thru no less that 12 bullet/powder combos. Each weapon is different, and you don't know what it likes til you try it. 

I can't get R15 to shoot for ****e in my three primary shooters. But, two of them luv Varget. One luvs W748, but hates BLC2. There is no real explanation for this. It just is.


----------



## Bottomsup

Wolf, Show us your groups with that gun. You said its spraying rounds like a shotgun. If thats the case no load is going to shoot good.


----------

