# Question: Converting surf spinning into surf casting??



## GulfSharkFishing (Apr 25, 2005)

I have a pair of 12 ft Okuma Solaris Surf rods (SSS1202MHI)
Here are the specs:
12' - 2 peice - Med/Hvy Action - Surf Spinning - 20 to 40 Line wt. - 3 to 8 oz Lure wt.

What I want to do is remove all guides, cut off about 6-12" from tip, respine and put new guides on spine. My mission is to increase the lure weight to make the rods heavers capable of casting 8+oz of lead and a pound of bait paired with penn 113hlw reels. Basically, i want to use them for casting for shark in second gut. I would rather not cut off from both ends because it's alot off extra work and I want it to be "broomstick" stiff. Im hoping that it wont load without at least 8oz on it.

Questions:

I realize that this will make the rod much stiffer(good thing), I quess what im wondering is there anything else I need to take into consideration before doing this.

Is there a difference in the quides that I need to use for a casting rod instead of what came on the spinning rod or can I re-use the guides.

Is guide spacing different from spinning to casting?

Am I going to get unexpected or undesireable performance results if the two rod peices are unequal in lengths?

What is best way to remove guides? I was thinking razorblade and light sandpaper.

The rod is two peices, buttom half of rods has spine on same side as the reel, tops have spine on side of blank not on or below current guides? I want the guides on same side of blank as guides for casting correct?

Sorry for dumb questions, newbie to building rods and too cheap to just go buy new blanks to start from scratch. Any and all input is much appreciated. Thanks all...


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## 123456 (Apr 6, 2005)

1.) Yes there is a difference in casting and spinning guides. Spinning guides are usually taller than casting guides. I would get me a good set of casting guides.
2.) No the guide spacing isnt different between spinning and casting, the spacing is dictated by the bend in the blank. I would do a static deflection test to confirm spacing. You will probably find that your rod doesnt have enough guides, most production rods dont.
3.) Not sure if you will get undesirable results with two section of different lengths, but my guess would be that is should be ok as long as its not a huge difference.
4.) To remove the guides get a sharp razor blade and cut the thread on top of the guides foot not on the blank, you dont want to cut the blank. Then just unwind what thread is left and most of the remining finish should come off with the thread. Any left can be CAREFULLY scraped away. Dont use sandpaper.
5.) Normally the guides are placed on the spine side on a casting set-up.
Hope this helps some and let me know if you need anything else,
Noel


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## bigfost (Oct 11, 2004)

I think before you buy all new guides, you need to ask yourself if there is any chance you will ever want to use a spinning reel on these rods again. The reason the guides are larger on a "spinning" rod is that the line comes off a spinning reel in a spiral, rather than the straight line off a casting reel. Therefore, you can use a casting reel on a spinning rod, but not the other way. If it were me, and the original guides were in good shape, I'd just put them back on.

Secondly, be VERY careful with how much you cut off the tips. Do it a little at a time. A little bit off can make a huge difference in the action. Also, large wraps on the guides can also stiffen up the blank. A long underwrap, plus two or three overwraps will make a big difference.


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## Redfishr (Jul 26, 2004)

Also, how heavy is the walls of these rods. Just because they're long and stiff by themselves doesnt mean they can handle 8 oz weights and another half pound of bait.
Especially if your a big strong boy.
I have broken "surf rods" that werent up to the task of 8 oz's and 4/0's.
They werent my rods of course and I warned the owner as I'm doing now.
Good Luck.


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## Michael Dill (May 27, 2004)

Question...are you cutting the exisiting handle and reel seat off the bottom of the blanks? If your trying to convert a spinning rod to casting I would see where there would be an issue here. Different reel seats for the two different applications. Just a thought. Seems what your wanting to do is a alot of work and a waste of time vrs starting from scatch with fresh blanks and guides.


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## GulfSharkFishing (Apr 25, 2005)

Thanks all for the comments. Some great insight. However due to the experience I had last night, I have decided to scratch the idea. I took one of the rods out to Indian Point Pier to load it with some weight to get an idea of what I thought it could handle and busted the thing clear in half just above where the two rod peices meet. Dang!! I had 8oz of lead and another 6oz of cut mullet. It casted pretty good and I thought this may work even better if I cut off about 8 inches from top. Cool. Well, when I went to bring in the cast it snagged on oyster shell and after giving it a tug, SNAP!! Sucker busted in half. Turns out I probably could have increased it into a heavy bait casting monster, but I dont think it would have held up to the battle of a decent sized shark. I contacted OKUMA TACKLE and they told me it was under warranty, they are sending me a new top rod section I only have to pay $10 for shipping. Lesson learned........Thanks again all....
Dave


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## Michael Dill (May 27, 2004)

You probably gave the rod a compression fracture when it loaded up casting that much weight. Then it couldnt handle the stress of being bowed up on the oyster. You had 6oz more weight than the manufacturer recomended, its no wonder it busted.


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## Arlon (Feb 8, 2005)

I'll give my 2 cents..

1. Spinning style guides are better for casting rods. The traditional short guides came into vogue about 30 years ago when the reel seats where underslung. They mounted the spool centerline almost in plane with the rod. Modern rods mount the reel much higher but most rod builders still use the shorter guides. I personally don't. Same goes for the size of the guide. If you plan to use a wider spool like an ambassadeur 5000, 6000 start with at least a 20mm guide and go down from there. Personally I like a 25mm first guide with 5000 sized reels and go up to as much as a 40mm guide with reels like the penn 980, jigmasters, etc. These BIG TALL casting reels really benefit from a big tall spinning rod style guides. Try it if you don't believe it. The little traditional guides got started 30 years or more ago when casting reel spools where fairly narrow. The practice was proliferated by the bass fishers with their narrow "V" spool reels. The wider spool reels will cast better if they "funnel" into a wider guide more in plane with the centerline of the line coming off the top of the spool. Try taping guides first with a good cellophane tape and casting (small casting rods, don't try taping guides to test a surf rod with a pound of weight (-:}..) to see how the bigger, taller guides perform. Most of the taller spinning guides will bring the bottom of the guide closer to the centerline of the reel and you get the added benefit of keeping the line off the rod through more of it's arc. I've made a number of surf rods from harringtons with little boat rod guides (poor performing "traditional" rod) to some graphite butt/glass tipped contender (excellent casting rods) with big guides. The casting rods with bigger, taller guides will outperform rods with small diameter, short guides EVERY time. I'm not suggesting the tallest 50mm guide for your first guide but on a medium Penn, 30-40mm is not a bad starting point. Line weight is another consideration. I use these guides with 40lb or less line and have never had a guide fail. If I where using a 6/0 penn and 80 lb. line, I would definitely be looking for a heavier "boat" rod guide and give up some casting performance.

2. Spline the rod with the stiff part of the spline at the FRONT of YOUR casting plane. I cast with the reel about 45 degrees from vertical so my spline is to the front and 45 degrees off the reel. Spline should ONLY be in line with the reel if you cast directly overhead. I cast more of a pendulum style so the spline has to be set into THAT plane, NOT the reels plane. If the rod bends in a plane when you cast that is not inline with the spline, you will hook EVERY cast one way or the other. That is why it's necessary to have the person who is going to use the rod show you their casting style so you can get the spline into HIS/HER casting plane. It varies considerably from person to person and a few degrees makes a big difference in casting accuracy, especially with lighter lures.. I have seen rods splined backwards literally explode under a hard cast. Casting is probably the most stressful part of a surf rods life. I the spline is out of line with the CASTING plane (as in inline with the reel) the rod will eventually self destruct. 

3. Opps, gotta start working&#8230;  All just MY opinion! Arlon
PS, NO spinning rod is ever going to make a decent SHARK rod no matter where you cut it. 
ps,


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## DANO (May 23, 2005)

I never Bow the rod getting the weight unstuck,... let your line do the work ! Tighten up the Line, put rod over your shoulder, thumb on the Spool and Pull, no bow in Pole, let your line do the Work,.. line stretches till Weight gives way or line Breaks ! I would rather Replace the Hook, weight and Leader than the Pole!!!!!


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