# 6 year old ticket for no fishing license???



## BIG Flat Skiff (May 25, 2004)

A friend of mind just called and said that his sister took his 6yo son fishing at a park on Clear Creek. While they were there a Parks & Wildlife officer approached them and asked for their fishing license. They only had one pole in the water and his son was the only one fishing. The officer told them that they needed to have a fishing license and it's a $200.00 fine if someone is caught fishing without one. In the Great State of Texas it's my understanding that anyone under 18 is not required to have a fishing license. If someone is just taking a kid fishing, and not fishing themselves, are they required to have one? He said that he would let them off with a warning this time but to go and get a license before they fish again. Anyone else had this happen to them?


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## big O (Mar 8, 2007)

Thats my understanding of the rule as well. Unless the Game warden thought that the older adult was fishing instead of the six year old.


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## troy merrill (May 21, 2004)

*From TPWD website*

*You do not need a license/package if you:*


are under 17 years of age.
were born *before* Sept. 1, 1930.
are a mentally disabled person who is engaging in recreational fishing as part of medically approved therapy, and who is fishing under the immediate supervision of personnel approved or employed by a hospital, residence, or school for mentally disabled persons. The mentally disabled person must carry an authorization identifying the entity supplying the service. This authorization may be in the form of an I.D. card that contains the name of the sponsoring entity.
are a mentally retarded person and you are recreational fishing under the direct supervision of a licensed angler who is a family member or a licensed angler that has permission from the family to take the mentally retarded person fishing. While fishing, the mentally retarded person needs a note from a doctor stating the person has been diagnosed as mentally retarded.


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## Profish00 (May 21, 2004)

Kids dont need them, but if your kid is fishing you do. For instance, you have 5 adults in the boat and one fishing pole you need 5 fishing license.


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## Steelersfan (May 21, 2004)

*...*



Profish00 said:


> Kids dont need them, but if your kid is fishing you do. For instance, you have 5 adults in the boat and one fishing pole you need 5 fishing license.


huh? I sure would like to see the wording of that statute. Doesn't make sense and there are most likely thousands of people breaking that law in Texas on a typical weekend if it is truly written that way.


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## Leemo (Nov 16, 2006)

Guilt by association..


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## Levelwind (Apr 15, 2005)

Profish00 said:


> Kids dont need them, but if your kid is fishing you do. For instance, you have 5 adults in the boat and one fishing pole you need 5 fishing license.


Do you have a reference for that, or just make it up?


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## Bobby (May 21, 2004)

Take it to court. Make them prove you were fishing.


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## capt.dave (Jan 3, 2007)

Steelersfan said:


> huh? I sure would like to see the wording of that statute. Doesn't make sense and there are most likely thousands of people breaking that law in Texas on a typical weekend if it is truly written that way.


I don't think it's written that way. Actually, I think you have to be caught in the act of fishing to get a ticket, i.e. sitting on a boat while others are fishing is not in the act of fishing.

As for the parent and 6 yr old. Who baited the hook? Made the cast? I can see where that can be a grey area.


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## 12lbtest (Jun 1, 2005)

Profish00 said:


> Kids dont need them, but if your kid is fishing you do. For instance, you have 5 adults in the boat and one fishing pole you need 5 fishing license.


??? huh ??? So your saying it's a license violation when my mother-in-law and grandmother want to take an evening boat ride on the lake and I take my pole just in case I see something fishy.

Never had an issue before and we get stopped quite frequently on Lake Livingston, of course GW is the neighbor, but still he has never said a word about someone cruising along being a violation.

12lb


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## Hooked Up (May 23, 2004)

An elderly couple was on vacation at Lake Livingston one summer. The husband had a small rowboat and decided to row out a bit and fish while his wife stayed ashore and relaxed with a good book. When the husband tired of fishing, he rowed back to camp, left his gear in the boat and crawled into their tent for a nap. The wife then decided that it would be a relaxing experience to row out a little bit and enjoy her book while anchored near their camp. Well, it wasn't long before a game warden approached the little rowboat and demanded to see the wife's fishing license. When she tried to explain to him that she was only reading, he informed her that he would have to issue her a citation for "fishing without a license" because she had fishing equipment with her. As the warden attempted to board the small boat to get the wife to sign the citation she told him to "stop right there if he didn't wish to be charged with rape!" "But I haven't done anything wrong" exclaimed the warden! "Indeed" replied the woman; but you "do" have the equipment!


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## ShadMan (May 21, 2004)

Profish00 said:


> Kids dont need them, but if your kid is fishing you do. For instance, you have 5 adults in the boat and one fishing pole you need 5 fishing license.


This is not correct. However, if a kid is fishing, I can see how one adult with them might need to have a license. I really doubt that a judge would let it stand in court without proof that the adult was assisting. If the adult is baiting the hook, casting, etc., then the adult is fishing, regardless of who is holding the pole.


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## WWR (Nov 22, 2006)

I did an internship with Parks and Wildlife my senior year in college.

If they don't see you holding a pole/casting a pole/reeling a pole, they can't write you a ticket, and they won't.

If they don't see it, they don't write it, simple. A warden is unethical if he writes you for it and doesn't see it. 

If you get a ticket and you weren't holding a pole nor did you touch a pole, you better fight the ticket.


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## WWR (Nov 22, 2006)

ShadMan said:


> If the adult is baiting the hook, casting, etc., then the adult is fishing, regardless of who is holding the pole.


The adult can bait the hook, the adult can't reel or cast.


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## Profish00 (May 21, 2004)

ShadMan said:


> This is not correct. However, if a kid is fishing, I can see how one adult with them might need to have a license. I really doubt that a judge would let it stand in court without proof that the adult was assisting. If the adult is baiting the hook, casting, etc., then the adult is fishing, regardless of who is holding the pole.


There is more to fishing than holding, casting, baiting a pole....ect.


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## Profish00 (May 21, 2004)

Levelwind said:


> Do you have a reference for that, or just make it up?


My wife does, she got the ticket:wink:


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## Hooked Up (May 23, 2004)

Really? Gotta call BS on this one Bro. If that were the case it would be time to elect a new judge IMHO! Guy


ShadMan said:


> This is not correct. However, if a kid is fishing, I can see how one adult with them might need to have a license. I really doubt that a judge would let it stand in court without proof that the adult was assisting. If the adult is baiting the hook, casting, etc., then the adult is fishing, regardless of who is holding the pole.


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## Profish00 (May 21, 2004)

WWR said:


> If you get a ticket and you weren't holding a pole nor did you touch a pole, you better fight the ticket.


 Take off work to fight a 100 dollar ticket when you make 300 dollars a day, not worth the trouble.


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## MT Stringer (May 21, 2004)

Since we don't know the whole story, there may have been an infraction of the rules. Seems to me that it would have been a nice gesture on the officers part to explain what the infraction is because the lady probably didn't have a clue as to what was going on. Also, the officer could have passed out some kudos for taking the youngster fishing, and then moved on to find someone who is doing damage to the coastal fisheries, and not to a lady for taking a young fellow fishing for enjoyment.
Just my humble opinion.
Mike


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## Leemo (Nov 16, 2006)

Kinda like the dogcatcher, they catch the dogs that are wagging their tails and licking their faces as they load em' in the truck, just trying to take a kid fishing, I know some of you will say "the law is the law" but so is making a complete stop at a stop sign!


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## KillaHookset (Jan 6, 2005)

Very sad.. I went camping with some other families earlier this spring. Most all of the parents never fished before and did not have a licence because they just bought their kids a snoopy fishing pole and let them and helped them fish the lake. At the time my wife did not have a fishing license and from what I understand she could have been ticketed if she cast my 3 year olds pole out for him or helped him reel in a fish in the eyes of a game warden...or any of the other parents that were there!
good gravy...for all game wardens who read this post, please get a life, bust the ones who are truly breaking the laws, the ones with cast nets and coolers and the bottle fishermen and gillnetter and the others keeping every undersized fish they reel in.


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## bradc (May 21, 2004)

Is there a Hotline you can call to get a real Answer on this? 

My wife was wanting to take my son to a park and let him fish with his Shrek pole for Brem. I told her I thought that she would have to get a Lis to do that. 
Our lis went out of date on the 31st and we can't get them renewed til the next check hits the bank. But if its possible for them to go while I'm at work It sure would be nice.


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## Sea Aggie (Jul 18, 2005)

1-800-TXLIC4U is the number you can call for licenses. I've used it many times for clients who show up for a hunt and "forgot" to get one.


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## bradc (May 21, 2004)

Thanks!



Sea Aggie said:


> 1-800-TXLIC4U is the number you can call for licenses. I've used it many times for clients who show up for a hunt and "forgot" to get one.


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## txranger (Jun 23, 2005)

Suppose the kid catches a keeper fish, then the GW happens by. Is the adult gonna get a ticket for having the fish in his possession without a license?


 WWR said:


> The adult can bait the hook, the adult can't reel or cast.


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## Sow Trout (Jun 28, 2004)

Troy, if you will get permission from your family and a note from your doctor, I can save you the cost of a license.


troy merrill said:


> *You do not need a license/package if you:*
> 
> are under 17 years of age.
> were born *before* Sept. 1, 1930.
> ...


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## troy merrill (May 21, 2004)

Sow Trout said:


> Troy, if you will get permission from your family and a note from your doctor, I can save you the cost of a license.


I'm going to remember that.....


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## CoastalOutfitters (Aug 20, 2004)

burden of proof is up to you with a boatload of kids.

re-read the first post....................he gave her a warning, fair enough...........

if she had the pole in her hand, or was casting, she was fishing........doesnt matter what rod, cane pole etc.

bottom line, she got a warning, junior likely was not asked to produce a lic., but that wasn't clearly explained.


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## frank n texas (Aug 11, 2004)

OK gang here is what they just told me in my a reply to my e-mail request..

If adult takes child fishing and adult baits hook, carries poles, removes fish from hook, etc all of these are considered fishing therefore the adult would be required to have a fish license...


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## MEGABITE (May 21, 2004)

bradc said:


> Is there a Hotline you can call to get a real Answer on this?
> 
> My wife was wanting to take my son to a park and let him fish with his Shrek pole for Brem. I told her I thought that she would have to get a Lis to do that.
> Our lis went out of date on the 31st and we can't get them renewed til the next check hits the bank. But if its possible for them to go while I'm at work It sure would be nice.


 She can take him to any Texas state park. They're doing a program where no one needs a fishing license as long as they are fishing within the park's boundaries.
Just an FYI


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## LDS (Jul 25, 2007)

Ok what if her and junior were walking down to the waters edge and she was carrying the rod which was already rigged with a lure and she tripped and fell accidently releasing the lure into the water. While she was trying to retrieve the line so that junior could cast she realed in a fish. Would she still have to have a license?


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## portalto (Oct 1, 2004)

This is all very interesting. I have the upmost respect for Game Wardens. They have a very difficult job. However, as a former Cub Scout Leader, we carried the poles and/or we baited the hook or took the fish off the hook depending on their ages. This was part of their fishing belt loop. Granted, I have a license but not all the adults did because they don't fish. 
In the past, when using a cane pole, a license is not required. Is that still required.


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## Aggieangler (May 28, 2004)

If you ask me, taking a kid fishing, is great. Not having a license as an adult, is not great. My wife was without one last time we took the kids fishing, and she could have been ticketed (my oversight). 

I will get her one before our next trip, so that all is legal. Well worth the money if you ask me!


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## Profish00 (May 21, 2004)

LDS said:


> Ok what if her and junior were walking down to the waters edge and she was carrying the rod which was already rigged with a lure and she tripped and fell accidently releasing the lure into the water. While she was trying to retrieve the line so that junior could cast she realed in a fish. Would she still have to have a license?


My wife has a super combo now, she may sit in the stand some time. I have a gun so she is hunting with me.


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## Pocboy (Aug 12, 2004)

A person taking or attempting to take game and nongame fish from fresh water for non-commercial purposes is required to have a valid fishing license and a freshwater fishing stamp endorsement. 
That tells me that I can have my wife and any other adult in the boat with me who does not have a fishing license and not worry whether or not I am fishing or have fishing equipment onboard. 

Aggie, if she was not fishing then she did not need to worry about it. I hope!


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## speckle-catcher (May 20, 2004)

is there so little for game wardens to do that they need to hassle a mom for taking a 6 yr old kid fishing?


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## Profish00 (May 21, 2004)

speckle-catcher said:


> is there so little for game wardens to do that they need to hassle a mom for taking a 6 yr old kid fishing?


Im sure it's just a easy target and he is flexing his muscle's


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## Pocboy (Aug 12, 2004)

Ok, I just spoke to TPWD in San Antonio asked them if I was hunting in a stand and my wife was with me would it be necessary for her to have a liscense as well. I was told that as long as she did not handle my weapon (stop right now you dirty old men...and women) she was not required to have a liscense. The same goes for fishing as well. They did say that the unlicensed person should not even think about picking up a rod to move it or hand it to someone or that would be a violation. *Once again, don't even think about it* Tom


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## Profish00 (May 21, 2004)

Pocboy said:


> Ok, I just spoke to TPWD in San Antonio asked them if I was hunting in a stand and my wife was with me would it be necessary for her to have a liscense as well. I was told that as long as she did not handle my weapon (stop right now you dirty old men...and women) she was not required to have a liscense. The same goes for fishing as well. They did say that the unlicensed person should not even think about picking up a rod to move it or hand it to someone or that would be a violation. *Once again, don't even think about it* Tom


That settled it for me, she carries the rods and guns, cause the ice chest is too heavy.


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## rs67c (May 7, 2006)

kinda the old saying. You might beat the rap but youll still take the ride.It would be easier to get a liscence as opposed to haveing to take off of work and go fight the ticket......Just my opinion......


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## ShadMan (May 21, 2004)

portalto said:


> In the past, when using a cane pole, a license is not required. Is that still required.


Yes, a license is required to fish with a cane pole, or with string wrapped around a coffee can.  You used to be able to fish with a cane pole without a license, but that has not been the case for a while.

The bottom line is, if you handle the fishing equipment, you are fishing and you need a license, regardless of whether or not you are the "primary" person fishing. The GW did his job, and he was nice enough to only give a warning and go after the real bad guys.

As stated before, you can fish off the shoreline or off of a pier in a state park without a license. Unless otherwise stated, you must have a license to fish from a boat in a state park.


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## Soaknwet (Jun 20, 2006)

When my family came from Oklahoma, my sisters husband went to get his license for 1 day and they were going to charge him the full $33. They told him since he was not buying the license an adult had to have a fishing license even though the child was fishing.


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## boom! (Jul 10, 2004)

I guess to me it is all a moot point. The money for a license goes to TPWD and is spent probably better than any other fees I have to pay for other things. As an adult teaching kids about fishing, it is a perfect time to set an example of one of the responsibilities (buying a license) that goes with fishing. 
I guess bottom line is that even if it is legal, is it right for me?
jeff


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## Hooked Up (May 23, 2004)

Touche'! Thank you for the most intelligent and rational post on this thread. Greenie headed your way. Bottom line; Don't "poach" and you wont have a problem. Tight lines, Guy


boomgoon said:


> I guess to me it is all a moot point. The money for a license goes to TPWD and is spent probably better than any other fees I have to pay for other things. As an adult teaching kids about fishing, it is a perfect time to set an example of one of the responsibilities (buying a license) that goes with fishing.
> I guess bottom line is that even if it is legal, is it right for me?
> jeff


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## speckle-catcher (May 20, 2004)

so - the 6 yr old kid was poaching?


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## JavelinaRuss (Jul 24, 2007)

It's just like guiding for hunting or fishing. YOU may not be fishing or hunting BUT you could be. Like you and wife/GF go bird hunting and you have a 12ga. and a 20 ga. shotgun in your truck parked next to you. Your shooting birds with the 20ga., she's just there to watch and read her book. Techicnally she is in the act of hunting since there is an extra shotgun, or even with one she could shoot yours too, same as your sister taking your son fishing, she was in THE ACT of fishing.


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## Pocboy (Aug 12, 2004)

As long as she did not pick up the gun then she would not be hunting. If there was a truck full of shotguns it would not matter as long as she did not pick one up.


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## WWR (Nov 22, 2006)

frank n texas said:


> If adult takes child fishing and adult baits hook, carries poles, removes fish from hook, etc all of these are considered fishing therefore the adult would be required to have a fish license...


Wrong again.


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## bthorp (Oct 7, 2005)

ok i was going to stay out of this post but the game warden bashing is wrong wrong wrong, the men and women that protect our resources and us deserve praise not criticism, maybe the child resembled a missing child report that came across the officers desk and he was just making contact to see if everything was ok, to blatantly acuse him of harassing them is wrong, the next time you are stopped by a warden how about shaking their hand and telling them thanks for doing a great job. just my 2 cents
Brian


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## KEN KERLEY (Nov 13, 2006)

horse feathers! that doesn't make any since at all. surely we have a game warden on 2cool. if so, tell us the law sir.


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## Tiny (Dec 19, 2006)

You can have as many people as you want in your boat. The main thing is that you do not have more fish than licensed or qualified fisher-persons. And.... If you "ain't fishing" then don't get caught Fishing!!!


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## koyhoward (Jan 8, 2007)

Profish00 said:


> Im sure it's just a easy target and he is flexing his muscle's


Read the post again guys. No ticket was issued, only a verbal warning. All he did was inform them of the law and to go and get a license before they go fishing again. That's flexing his muscles? Sensitive bunch around here.


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## ZenDaddy (May 22, 2004)

Profish00 said:


> There is more to fishing than holding, casting, baiting a pole....ect.


Absolutely right ... when I'm fishing with my kids there is more than holding, casting and baiting .... there's untangling, and untangling and more untangling!


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## BIG Flat Skiff (May 25, 2004)

My original question simply asked if that has happened to anyone else. She did not get a ticket. My friends sister just wanted to spend some time with her nephew and took him fishing. I find it silly that she may get a ticket for helping him to fish. I also understand that if a game warden walked up as she was helping him cast, he would see it as her fishing and not her nephew. There has got to be a clear cut answer in the law somewhere.


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## Levelwind (Apr 15, 2005)

Sorry, can't leave this one alone. We don't have all the facts, but what we ARE reasonably sure of is:

1. The definition of who needs a fishing license. It's a fairly plain statute. 

"Taking or attempting to take" does NOT inlude driving a person to where he/she can fish, sitting beside them, etc., selling or giving a person gas for the trip, etc. 

It may very well involve MORE than casting or reeling, like WWR was taught, at least in the eyes of some wardens. 

As a hunting guide, we have observers who go along sometimes. They are not required to have a hunting license to walk along and sit in the blind. HOWEVER, they may not "participate in the hunt" in any way - that's the common GW lingo that I have heard. That could include putting out or picking up decoys, retrieving birds, it COULD include walking to the area if in walking they were attempting to flush game to be shot. 

IF the lady was not handling fishing gear, baiting hooks, removing fish, etc., the GW was being rude and I doubt the department would approve of his tactics. 

IF she wasn't doing any of this, and the six year old was taking care of it, he probably could have ticketed her because she was participating in "taking or attempting to take". 

Since most of the state guys I've known are pretty decent, I'll give the benefit of the doubt - that he observed the lady participating in one of these ways and let her off with a warning. But who knows. 

Bottom line, if your kid can fish, and catch fish, on his/her own, and you're just there to keep an eye on him/her or to enjoy the day watching, you do NOT need a license. If you are going to PARTICIPATE in taking or attempting to take fish beyond transporting the fisherman, you should have a license.


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## Pocboy (Aug 12, 2004)

Levelwind, When I spoke to a warden yesterday I was told that if someone without a license even picks up a rod to hand it to someone then they are wrong and can be ticketed. However, If I take my family fishing and all my wife does is sit in the front of the boat and never touches a rod then she does not need a license.


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## Levelwind (Apr 15, 2005)

Pocboy said:


> Levelwind, When I spoke to a warden yesterday I was told that if someone without a license even picks up a rod to hand it to someone then they are wrong and can be ticketed. However, If I take my family fishing and all my wife does is sit in the front of the boat and never touches a rod then she does not need a license.


I expect that's true. I think that's stretching "particpating" about as far as possible, but I expect it would stand up in court.


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## Hooked Up (May 23, 2004)

You're kidding. Right?


speckle-catcher said:


> so - the 6 yr old kid was poaching?


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## Levelwind (Apr 15, 2005)

Our game laws have generally served us well over the past ninety years or so, even those which seem silly to law abiding folks. Poachers and scofflaws will go to extremes to use every percieved loophole in the law to exceed bag limits, circumvent licensing requirements, etc. A favorite example of mine is the requirement not to possess more than one daily bag limit in the field. Recently C.O.s have been tightening up on this, essentially requiring each hunter to keep his/her birds separated from the others. We never used to do this, so long as the "group limit" wasn't exceeded, we'd happily load one guy up with all the birds, another with decoys, etc. and the GWs never bothered us for it. But it DOES encourage the mindset of "blind limits" or "boat limits", wherein the better shot or fisherman may catch/kill his limit and part (or all) of another anglers or hunters limit. Daily bag limits are not set with the assumption that everyone will kill or catch a limit on every outing, and this "group limiting" COULD negatively impact the resource. It's a small thing, for sure, hard to prove and possibly not real important in the big picture, but it's a good law and it's there for a good reason. 

The tightening up of the "participation rule" is probably occurring to prevent several people fishing with one licence (or no license). Again, everyone who FISHES should be licensed. 

It's irritating, sometimes, when enforcement efforts begin focusing on areas where we've become sloppy, but in most cases the state guys, in particular, will do some warning in these areas before they start writing big tickets. There will always be a few who seem to have a bad attitude toward the public, but in my adopted home, the great state of Texas, I'd say the GWs are usually very decent, hard working public servants. Just my opinion, of course.


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## Freshwaterman (May 21, 2004)

Something else to think about. I was in Florida on vacation gathering scollops in the bay when the GW showed up. He wrote me a warning (could have been a ticket) for not having a Florida fishing license........ scollops and oysters are a Shell Fish.


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## Steelersfan (May 21, 2004)

*Here is Pennsylvanias take on parents participating in fishing. Same goes for hunting. We are expanding youth opportunities up here every year. I thought Texas to be fairly progressive when it came to outdoors recreation but they are a little behind the times on this one. We need all the help we can get in this day and age to continue to recruit young fisherpeople and hunters. Maybe some of ya'll should write to your representatives to try and get the language of this law changed if what is stated in this thread is true. To me, it is a common sense approach to helping recruitment.*

*Do I need a fishing license to take my young child fishing?*
An adult who assists a child by casting or retrieving a fishing line or fishing rod is not required to possess a valid fishing license provided that the child remains within arms' reach of the assisting adult and is actively involved in the fishing activity. An adult may assist a child by baiting hooks, removing fish from the line, netting fish, preparing the fishing rod for use and untangling the line without possessing a valid fishing license.

There are a number of Pennsylvania waters that are available to fishing exclusively for children 12 years of age and younger and persons who have certain physical or mental impairments....view the listing.

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