# Texas High School Student Tells Teacher How to Teach



## roundman (May 21, 2004)

Texas High School Student Tells Teacher How to Teach
A video clip of a student at a high school in Duncanville, Texas has been viewed hundreds of times on YouTube and received thousands of comments on Reddit, as it features the teen trying to teach his teacher how to do her job.





 In the video, it appears he is being asked to leave the classroom. But he is not angry about being kicked out of class, and is more angry about how is teacher teaches her students.

Throughout his speech, which some are saying is so good it could be slam poetry, the teacher is repeatedly telling him to leave by saying "bye" and "get out." Meanwhile, his peers listen to what he has to say and one secretly records him with his phone.

"Going off on kids because they don't freakin' get this ****?" he begins. "If you would just get up and teach them instead of handing them a freakin' packet, yo! There's kids in here who don't learn like thatâ€¦they need to learn face to face."

With the teacher getting angrier, he says, "You're just getting mad because I'm pointing out the obvious." 


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/1dyaas
 She replies, "No, it's because you're wasting my time."

Then he gets to the heart of his speech, telling her that she needs to get the students excited about learning.

"No I'm not wasting your time; I'm telling you what you need to do. You want kids to come into your class? You want them to get excited for this? You gotta come in here and make them excited. You want a kid to change and start doing better? You gotta touch his freakin' heart."

While it is not known if the student returned to class or what kind of trouble he was in, he is receiving praise from all over the Internet.

One Reddit user said, "He was like straight from a Tarantino script," while another said, "The words just seemed to flow into one another, just like good poetry."

A YouTube commenter wrote, "That kid could make a great teacherâ€¦if only he had a great teacher to help him get there. He's right. Teachers shape the future."






http://www.opposingviews.com/i/society/video-texas-high-school-student-tells-teacher-how-teach


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## BURTONboy (Feb 23, 2010)

Im sure he got in all kinds of trouble and the teacher will be back tomorrow doing the same ol chit. Schools these days, in some towns, just go with the bare minimum. Its pretty sad really. That kid is perfectly right, and not just in his own mind...


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## HuntinforTail (Mar 29, 2011)

I watched the video. We don't really know what led up to this, if this teacher is really doing a bad job teaching or if this one kid just isn't understanding, or if this kid has a history of being a trouble maker. This short clip doesn't look good for the teacher, but like every good controversy there are 2 sides to the story.


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## Muddskipper (Dec 29, 2004)

You get what you pay for ... teachers are underpaid, and deal with more BS than most here could understand...

I'm not making excuses for poor teachers.... trust me I had plenty in HISD ....

I had a teacher that told me I was not even going to graduate high school .... well I ran into him at a gas station, 4 yrs after college.... and I was working for Shell ....

He didn't even need to ask ... he saw the boat behind the truck ... 

at the end of the day the teacher needed to be called out.... but what do you expect when I'm sure most could make more money on welfare than teaching....

Your not getting rich by teaching... and the politics with districts and schools really take the wind out of a teachers sail.... and it's tough to stay motivated and do what you thought you had a passion for

I have teachers in my family ... so I here all the wonderful stories


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## On The Hook (Feb 24, 2009)

Seems typical of many of the teachers I've seen in public schools. Yes, there are good, even great teachers out there, but I would venture to say that the majority are actually not quality teachers. Although, many may actually know their subject matter by heart, that knowledge alone does not a good teacher make. I think often potentially good teachers are held back by the politics, structure, and mentality of our school districts and educational system as a whole. Schools seem to have stopped teaching and are now,instead, babysitters who provide information in an ineffectual fashion.


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## 2wahoo (May 21, 2004)

Yeah, that's right. The teacher sucks and the student knows everything! Figures!

I didn't watch the video and I don't know any of the dynamics of that particular classroom setting. But, I would love to see some of you clowns step in and teach a class of students in a core subject class like Algebra 2 for 1 semester. Let you guys deal with unmotivated students, unrealistic or totally uninvolved parents, and so many state exams that you don't have time to teach the subject.


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## Dukman (Sep 21, 2007)

2wahoo said:


> Yeah, that's right. The teacher sucks and the student knows everything! Figures!
> 
> I didn't watch the video and I don't know any of the dynamics of that particular classroom setting. But, I would love to see some of you clowns step in and teach a class of students in a core subject class like Algebra 2 for 1 semester. Let you guys deal with unmotivated students, unrealistic or totally uninvolved parents, and so many state exams that you don't have time to teach the subject.


....X2.... my daughter says the #1 problem she has teaching is unmotivated kids followed closely by uninvolved parents.

Maybe the kid should put as much effort into studying as he does ranting why its someone elses's fault. Funny how these videos only show a portion of the incident.

And the kid needs a haircut.


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## Blitz678 (Feb 16, 2010)

Amen 2wahoo! I know nothing about this situation or what happened to prompt the outburst, but I am a teacher. I spend all day in front of students lecturing, doing labs, showing video's and doing worksheets trying to deliver the content in a way that will help as many as possible. I deal with disrespect, apathy and distractions (just like that cell phone that was probably used to make the video) and, when the student fails the test because of them; blame. Students today (I would like to say *not* *all* students today) are looking for some magic method of learning where they do no work and just get it.

The last thing I am trying to do is start a fight here, but I deal with this on a daily basis. I am just tring to figure out when learning became entirely the teachers responsiblility to make students learn and not the students responsibility to try to learn?

You can lead a horse to water... you can give a student knowlege, but you can't make him accept it.

Sorry if I offend anyone, but I do have a little insight into what it is like for me. The only reason I still do this, is for those kids that I can reach and what they accomplish in life. Makes me very proud!

PS- Before anyone razzes me, I am on my conference, not in class as I type this!


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## Spitflames (May 1, 2013)

HuntinforTail said:


> I watched the video. We don't really know what led up to this, if this teacher is really doing a bad job teaching or if this one kid just isn't understanding, or if this kid has a history of being a trouble maker. This short clip doesn't look good for the teacher, but like every good controversy there are 2 sides to the story.


xx2


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## Fish&Chips (Jan 27, 2012)

Didn't watch the video but I know it falls back on the parents the majority of the time.


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## Tortuga (May 21, 2004)

Kid may or may not have a point..but I would give him more attention if he would get a haircut...


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## misbhavn (Nov 19, 2010)

I'm not going to bash teachers here...they are severely underpaid and underappreciated for what they do. However, having children in elementary, intermediate and high school, I can tell you if it's not on the standardized test du jour (currently STAAR), it doesn't get taught anymore. It's really a shame.


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## Fish&Chips (Jan 27, 2012)

jtupper said:


> I'm not going to bash teachers here...they are severely underpaid and underappreciated for what they do. However, having children in elementary, intermediate and high school, I can tell you if it's not on the standardized test du jour (currently STAAR), it doesn't get taught anymore. It's really a shame.


Good point.


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## Blitz678 (Feb 16, 2010)

Again, speaking as a teacher, your right. It is sad what we are limited to... We HAVE to teach to the test and most of the teachers I know HATE it!


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## greenhornet (Apr 21, 2010)

jtupper said:


> I'm not going to bash teachers here...they are severely underpaid and underappreciated for what they do. However, having children in elementary, intermediate and high school, I can tell you if it's not on the standardized test du jour (currently STAAR), it doesn't get taught anymore. It's really a shame.


I am also a teacher and this is NOT accurate, we don't know what is going to be on the test. We are given a laundry list of the most ambiguous objectives you will ever see and we have received 6 yes I said 6 released test questions from the Biology test, for instance. I know you hear all the time that teachers are teaching the test but it is a very silly statement.

Basically guys our public education system is in very bad shape for teachers and students due to law suits and compulsory attendance. Why do we need certain 17 year old students sitting in Alg 2 or Physics when they could care less and will never use it. It is a gross misuse of funds and a huge waste of time for all involved. Take a closer look at the countries that are ranked highly in education and you will find they take a much different approach. Not many countries treat 17/18 year olds exactly the same way they treat 5 year olds when it comes to education.

I'm on my lunch break for those who wish to question my use of time.


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## ReelWork (May 21, 2004)

I'd smack the sh.. outta that kid (which is why I am not a teacher and my wife is). 

That student was completely disrespectful, disruptive and insubordinate... This is not only the type of student who competely disrupts and undermines the teacher's authority, it is praised and encouraged instead of shunned as echoed by the attention it's getting. An action like that can and will derail the entire class for quite some time. 

If my kid was in that class I would not be a happy parent. 

Just from what I could tell watching the video, which only tells a small part of the story, the teacher appears to remain calm and collected, the class remains seated and quiet and from what I could see, her classroom looks to be in good order all of which is indicative of a caring and organized teacher = a Good Teacher. 

Teachers are there to teach, not babysit.


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## mustangeric (May 22, 2010)

I dont want to get into a drawn out deal. Teachers are WAY under paid and get zero respect. My sister is a teacher and i hear stories all the time. With that being said, there are bad teachers out there and if what he is saying is true(about just handing out packets and not getting involved) the kid has a point. I know growing up my grades always were directly effected by what type of teacher i had.


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## Pasadena1944 (Mar 20, 2010)

jtupper said:


> I'm not going to bash teachers here...they are severely underpaid and underappreciated for what they do. However, having children in elementary, intermediate and high school, I can tell you if it's not on the standardized test du jour (currently STAAR), it doesn't get taught anymore. It's really a shame.


I say BS to that......I have grand kids in the 5th, 6th and 9th grades and I was talking them and I was surprised as to how much they know...If your kids are not learning anything else than you need to find out why....


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## Smackdaddy53 (Nov 4, 2011)

What the hell does the length of that kids hair have to do with anything? I grew my hair to my *** and had no problem doing my job, moving up and becoming a supervisor over a small company. 
Maybe listening to what he has to say rather than judging what you see would be less distracting from the point he is making. 
Its like I have stated before, if they dont like their job maybe its time to move on to something else instead of doing a half *** job because they feel they are wasting their time. That can be used as an example for many things!


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## andre3k (Dec 3, 2012)

School districts are hiring if anyone thinks they can do a better job. 46k a years and its all yours. 

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk 2


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## roundman (May 21, 2004)

what are/is he calling packets?


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## Be Young (Jun 16, 2004)

The kid is a 18 year old sophmore, that should tell you something!!


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## boat_money (May 21, 2004)

Tortuga said:


> Kid may or may not have a point..but I would give him more attention if he would get a haircut...


and not cuss. he doesn't come off well in that video to me. maybe some high school kids think he sounds smart, but he's not. i tell my kids all the time, school is not just about learning facts it's about learning how to learn, live and overcome obstacles.

the main issue i have with the school system is tenure and how difficult it is to deal with a bad teacher that is well into the system.


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## andre3k (Dec 3, 2012)

boat_money said:


> the main issue i have with the school system is tenure and how difficult it is to deal with a bad teacher that is well into the system.


Tenure? At the high school level? This is news to me. Ive been married to two different teachers. From what I saw it was pretty much up to the principal as to who stayed and who got canned. Saw quite a few of them get shown the door. Didnt seem difficult to me.

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk 2


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## TheSamarai (Jan 20, 2005)

School is not supposed to be fun. There is no fun in learning. Its hard work to study, pay attention,and get good grades. Daycare is supposed to be fun. Ask anyone who excells at any thing worthwhile in life if the process was fun.


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## fishin shallow (Jul 31, 2005)

Only time school was fun was when we cut class and headed to the beach


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

I chose not to watch the video, but my feelings are that a student does not have the right to call out a teacher in class. Thank goodness I am not a teacher today, if so I would probably be in jail. Teachers, for the most part are good and are put in a very difficult situation. Much more difficult than when I grew up.

They get abuse from both kids and parents on a regular basis. A lot of kids these days have an attitude of entitlement, both in material things and in education. They want things given to them and don't feel like they should have to work for what they get. Study, give me a break, that ain't no fun, besides it would take away from my cell phone time and video games. Parents hold much accountability for the situation. Teachers have a very difficult job.


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## agonzales1981 (Jun 12, 2008)

TheSamarai said:


> School is not supposed to be fun. There is no fun in learning. Its hard work to study, pay attention,and get good grades. Daycare is supposed to be fun. Ask anyone who excells at any thing worthwhile in life if the process was fun.


I agree to a point. Some of my favorite teachers were ones who taught math and science and I looked forward to going to their classes because they made it a fun and creative learning environment.


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## ReelWork (May 21, 2004)

andre3k said:


> Tenure? At the high school level? This is news to me. Ive been married to two different teachers. From what I saw it was pretty much up to the principal as to who stayed and who got canned. Saw quite a few of them get shown the door. Didnt seem difficult to me.


Bingo!

I've also had the opportunity to listen in on a parent/teacher phone call where the student/child was caught in an outright lie, admitted to the lie when caught and was sent a note home as well as parents called - repeat offender. Note was also found thrown away and recovered in the trash can.

Conversation went smooth until mom very quickly turned it into this "I can't believe you are accusing my son of lying!!! You and your teacher cronies keep accusing my son of all sorts of things and I am not going to tolerate it!!! You're dealing with me now, I am the mean one - I don't put up with sh.t! Can you prove he was lying"

Teacher - " Yes ma'am - he even admitted to lying and a note was sent home. As you know this isn't his first time. "

Mom - "Well, he didn't do it and he was pressured into telling you he lied"

Teacher - "So when he told us he didn't have XXXXXX and then later he presents XXXX to another teacher who asks why XXXX wasn't marked"

Mom - "Well, that's what the other teacher said... " blah blah blah

Teacher - "He also threw away the note that was supposed to go home to you"

Mom - "Did YOU see him throw the note away"

Teacher - "Um, no ma'am however when asked he said he threw it away"

Mom - "Of course he threw it away, he didn't want to get in trouble at home because you guys keep ganging up on him!"

You get the idea - I was about to come unglued. These are the same types of parents raising these kids. It's not about the hair, the clothes or the like - it's about the attitude, lack of respect and lack of consequences. It all starts in the home.


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## Supergas (Nov 30, 2004)

*HISD Teacher Salary Schedule*

Muddskipper:

Here is a link to the HISD salary schedule for a 10 month year.. do a little math & see what they would make on an annual or 12 month year.

http://dept.houstonisd.org/connect/...s/salaries/20122013TeacherSalarySchedules.pdf

*$55,064.40 per 12 month year for the starting teacher with a 4 year Bachelor degree & ZERO experience.*

It is way above poverty or welfare & is above the national average income..

I have payed a lot of money over the years for government education, which has not benefited me one iota, and I think that *most* of the union teachers are under qualified & overpaid. And we haven't even started to discuss the BLACK HOLE OF EDUCRATS called THE Administration who consume huge amounts of OUR TAX money...

I would have a lot less angst about my taxes that go to education if there was a voucher system that would create competition.. which then would do more to actually educate the children.. Who by the way are the ones really getting the shaft..

As to the video, they were both wrong.. but the kid had no choice but to sit there & be served mediocrity at best...

TEACH THE TEST!! TEACH THE TEST!! BS!!

Supergas


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## redspeck (Jul 3, 2012)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> What the hell does the length of that kids hair have to do with anything? I grew my hair to my *** and had no problem doing my job, moving up and becoming a supervisor over a small company.
> Maybe listening to what he has to say rather than judging what you see would be less distracting from the point he is making.
> Its like I have stated before, if they dont like their job maybe its time to move on to something else instead of doing a half *** job because they feel they are wasting their time. That can be used as an example for many things!


X2


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## Smackdaddy53 (Nov 4, 2011)

The teachers I learned the most from were the ones that were passionate about teaching and understood the way each student learned the best, even the knuckleheads. 
Like I said before, if it sucks so bad that they are giving up maybe its time to find a new career.


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## roundman (May 21, 2004)

i guess no one else knows what a packet is either? sounds kinda like to me its stuff the teacher makes copies of the lesson for the day, puts it in all the " packets " and lays them on each students desk and they study it themselves while the teacher sits there not actually teaching the class?


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## Horns (Feb 22, 2010)

roundman said:


> i guess no one else knows what a packet is either? sounds kinda like to me its stuff the teacher makes copies of the lesson for the day, puts it in all the " packets " and lays them on each students desk and they study it themselves while the teacher sits there not actually teaching the class?


Do you really not know what a packet of papers is, use your context clues, the teacher is handing out "packets". Holy ****, if we cant even learn what a packet is we are in real trouble.


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## roundman (May 21, 2004)

we didnt have so called packets when i was in skoo and i dont have kids,we had tablets to write in in elementary and a binder with papers in high skoo


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## Lucky (Sep 1, 2005)

I can't believe some of the comments you guys are making... It really makes me wonder sometimes. For one, if teaching is so bad that the teachers are not motivated to create a fun and easy learning environment, THEN FIND ANOTHER CAREER! Smackdaddy is absolutely right in his comment. From K through college you run into good teachers and bad teachers. This situation could have been handled in a more professional manner apparently, but what happens if he explains the situation to an adult or principal??? Nothing. Matter of fact, I have been in this exact situation in college and I have brought it up to the dean and other instructors, but nothing ever happens. There are too many teachers these days that just want a paycheck and nothing more. Yes, there are bad students too, but the teachers can still teach and make the material easy to learn. Changes needed to be made in the education system no doubt. There is a lot of unnecessary testing going on and not enough of what students need to learn.


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## shearwater 25 (Dec 17, 2012)

The public school system is severely broken. After several years in public schools my wife and I decided to put our 8 and 11 year in private school this year. Their grades and attitude, and not too mention the knowledge theyre getting have greatLy improved over what they were receiving in public school. My son constantly had a negative attitude and bad reports coming home from public school, no longer the case. The only way to improve our system is to offer better alternative rather than a bureaucracy that continues to support poor performing schools and teachers.


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## TheExtreme (Aug 17, 2010)

My wife spent a lot if years in the classroom and is now a principal. there are poor teachers just like in any field. Many complaining on here may have worthless co-workers or may be worthless themselves. Hard to get rid of poor ones due to the teachers union. That being said, there are ways to handle things and a kid acting out in class is not one of them. If I has sassed one of my teachers, my father would have tore my butt off of me. Parents send their kids to school and say "here they are. teach them but don't discipline them and if anything happens, little Johnny is right and it's your fault". Spend a day in the classroom with some of these kids and then tell me how easy it is to be a teacher. And to those that say to just do something else other than teach. Stick it. In one breath you'll say they arent paid enough and in the next breath talk about them needing to do a better job. If it really means that much to you, take a pay cut and become a good teacher.


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## Deany45 (Jul 24, 2011)

There is apparently more to this story and this student's concerns may have been valid. According to the news last night, the school district has said that he will face no disciplinary action and the teacher was placed on leave. I'm not saying that he went about it in the right way, but that tells me that there must have been something leading up to this and it probably wasn't the first issue that they had with this teacher.


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## G-O-T-B (Jan 15, 2010)

i see a real problem when nothing happens to a student that can stand up curse and cause a scene in the middle of a class room.


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## Bily Lovec (Sep 26, 2005)

G-O-T-B said:


> i see a real problem when nothing happens to a student that can stand up curse and cause a scene in the middle of a class room.


I shudder to think what my Dad would have done to me and rightly so.

so since the kid wasnt punished and the teacher was, is the school prepared for the cussfest about to happen ?


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## Barbarian (Feb 12, 2009)

Not sure where to start. 

1st off a 1st year HISD teacher makes 45k, not 55k. Lots of people 'think' they only work 10 months because the students only go 10 months. It is not accurate to take their salary and try to upgrade it into a higher salary for 12 months. My wife is a teacher and she will only get about 5 weeks off during the summer, but during the year she works on average 10-12 hours every day with a one 20 minute lunch breack and another 4-5 hours per weekend. Plus, you can't live off that imaginary 10k. 

The main problem with the education system though isn't the pay, it is the Corporate America BS that has taken over the school boards. All the good teachers aren't in it for the money, they just love what they do. The current system has taken what they love and thrown it in the gutter so all they have left is their pay. They wear these teachers out and bog them down with beaurecratic garbage. I bet 50% of their time is now spent not teaching. Morale among teachers is horrible and it has nothing to do with their pay. 

From what I speculated from the video is something both of my kids have experienced. As all professions, there are employees who are just not good at their job. It sounded too me like the teacher just handed out class work while she sat at her desk all day. Then she complained when the kids didn't do well on the test. IMO, it actually sounded like this kid was not one of the one that was struggling, but was speaking up for the whole class. It has become fairly common in our high school experience for both of my kids that an AP class will all fail a test. High grade might be 65 out of 3 AP classes. This is supposedly the brightest kids in the age group. It happens over and over in the same class all year. The teacher has to give test retakes and extra credit so that the entire class doesn't fail. I have had a few conversations over the years with these teachers and they all claim the students just don't get it or don't work hard enough. It has been 100% of the time in the teachers perspective, the students fault. This video reminds me a lot of the same conversations I have had with a couple of teachers. Like the last conversation I had with a teacher last year, it can not be all of your students (100%) fault. You are teaching the brightest kids in the entire grade. Most have GPA's over 3.5 for their entire life and you are going to tell me it is their fault that 60 out of 60 can't even pass your test. Sorry, I have no need for ocean front property in Arizona. Either your test making skills suck or your teaching skills do. Your choice, but that are your only 2 options. 

It has become such a battle between educators and students/parents that both sides are so defensive and protect each other down to the end. Educators have to admit when a teacher is at fault just like a parent has to admit when their kid is at fault.


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## tcbayman (Apr 27, 2006)

They need to structure highschool a little more like college. The teacher teaches the material in the book, you take the test, and pass/fail. If you need special teaching then you can go to tutorials. A lot of my time in school was wasted waiting on students that did not care to be there anyways, and people just in there to cut up. I dont see why any teacher needs to get kids to be excited about school for them to do good. I was never "excited" about school, but I have a little pride in my work, whether thats school work or real world work.


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## ReelWork (May 21, 2004)

G-O-T-B said:


> i see a real problem when nothing happens to a student that can stand up curse and cause a scene in the middle of a class room.


Exactly! Surprised the general consensus of 2Cool isn't saying the same thing.. Like I said, I couldn't be a teacher - I'd have smacked the ever loving S--t outta that kid for the disrespect but then again there is also another side to the story. Either way students should never act out and disrupt a class like he did and regardless of how valid his points are they are outright negated when he stood up and did what he did.

So here's a spin.

Let's say one of you guys hire this fella and while he's under your supervision you implement a policy which he understands and follows then assign this individual a task they don't like. So later on in the middle of a meeting with a lot of other subordinates this fella stands up and pretty much tells ya to do your **** job, says you don't care and you're pretty much worthless. Oh yeah, he could do a better job.

Willing to bet you're going home with your job intact and he's heading to the unemployment line...


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## Barbarian (Feb 12, 2009)

I disagree with the disrepect in this situation. None of us know what actually led to the student blowing up in class, but there is 50/50 chance that the teacher was the one being disrespectful. And I don't think the tone of the student was all that bad and it is stretching it to say he cursed. I'm not necessarilly ready to defend the student completely, but I sure am not ready to blame him either.


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## 24Buds (Dec 5, 2008)

I read most of the comments, and agree with some disagree with some. Yes, the kid needs a haircut, but maybe he is growing it out to donate to locks of love.

Yes, he should not have cussed. He was a little heated.

What his content was, I could not agree more. We all had some great teachers and some very bad ones. He is correct, you have to have the passion. You have to make the student want to learn. Its your job. 

With that said, I also understand that some will have nothing to do with learning, paying attention or showing a little respect for the teacher. Maybe the upbringing they had, maybe not. I don't know. Not everyone will be a skilled. 

As for class not being any fun, I could not disagree more. If its fun, you pay attention. If its some teacher reading you a bunch of words from a text book, you will pull out your phone. 

To all you teachers out there, I get it. You don't get paid enough. Nether do I or a police officer or a fireman. 

I do love what I do and I do it with passion.:slimer:


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

TheExtreme said:


> My wife spent a lot if years in the classroom and is now a principal. there are poor teachers just like in any field. Many complaining on here may have worthless co-workers or may be worthless themselves. Hard to get rid of poor ones due to the teachers union. That being said, there are ways to handle things and a kid acting out in class is not one of them. If I has sassed one of my teachers, my father would have tore my butt off of me. Parents send their kids to school and say "here they are. teach them but don't discipline them and if anything happens, little Johnny is right and it's your fault". Spend a day in the classroom with some of these kids and then tell me how easy it is to be a teacher. And to those that say to just do something else other than teach. Stick it. In one breath you'll say they arent paid enough and in the next breath talk about them needing to do a better job. If it really means that much to you, take a pay cut and become a good teacher.


My dad was in the school system also, but things were not the same back in the olden days. I am not saying the kin may not have had a valid point. He just did not handle it right. If he had a problem with the teacher he should have scheduled a meeting with her, the principal, and his parents and gone through system. A kid, no matter the age or grade, should ever be allowed to call a teacher out. Once one does it and gets away with it, it just escalates from there.


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## fishinguy (Aug 5, 2004)

Pay isn't the problem. It is the whole system, and it is also the students as much as it is the system.


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## 47741 (Jan 5, 2010)

Vote NO on the CCISD school bonds!

No money until they fix their ills. Can't fix it? Bye bye DoE. Start over.


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## Quepos1 (Jan 21, 2011)

*Times Two for Me*



ReelWork said:


> I'd smack the sh.. outta that kid (which is why I am not a teacher and my wife is).
> 
> That student was completely disrespectful, disruptive and insubordinate... This is not only the type of student who competely disrupts and undermines the teacher's authority, it is praised and encouraged instead of shunned as echoed by the attention it's getting. An action like that can and will derail the entire class for quite some time.
> 
> ...


I know I am much older than many on this board but I will say that had I had a rant like that when I was in school the school would have expelled me never to darken their door again. Further, my Father would have torn me a new one every day until I was old enough to move out or graduated.


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## Quepos1 (Jan 21, 2011)

*It is not a teacher job to be respectful of the little punk*



Barbarian said:


> I disagree with the disrepect in this situation. None of us know what actually led to the student blowing up in class, but there is 50/50 chance that the teacher was the one being disrespectful. And I don't think the tone of the student was all that bad and it is stretching it to say he cursed. I'm not necessarilly ready to defend the student completely, but I sure am not ready to blame him either.


It is the youth's responsibility to be respectful of the teacher and any adult in authority. If I had a kid like that I would bust his arse so badly he would be lucky not to be a cripple. It doesn't matter whether the teacher is disrectful to him. He hasn't earned any respect at his age.


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## G-O-T-B (Jan 15, 2010)

I could careless if the teachers class was boring or not the kid should show up shut his mouth do his work and move on. In school i had teachers that bored me to death i sat there smiled did my work then went on about my buisness and guess what i learned the material. The things we tolerate from kids these days would have gotten most of us beat in our day and age. 

I realize that some kids are auditory some visual, and some hands on learners but hey learn to adapt.


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## Blastn & Castn (Mar 11, 2010)

Let's not forget he was sent out of the class! He did not even follow that direction without being an arse... My son is 10 & came home w/complaint about a teacher. I told him lets not start this keep your head down, follow all instructions from the teacher, & by the end of the year you will have learned from the class.. Take the GOOD with the BAD... School is easy compaired to when you get out. SOP WORK!!!!!


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## MickyeRedFisher (Mar 10, 2006)

*So many emotions....*

Being a teacher myself, I can't even begin to express my feelings after reading all of these comments. I agree with some comments and disagree with others. I have a real problem with people who want to sit on their laurels and try to say that teachers are bad, they do a terrible job, only want a paycheck and the current problems are all their fault. The majority of us work very hard. We work more than 10 hours a day, 6 or 7 days a week. Plus we work summers... Teachers DO NOT get summers off, contrary to popular belief. We may not be IN our classrooms, but we ARE working... preparing for the coming year... Many of us go home at night crying because we are not getting the results we wish we were getting. For every "bad" teacher out there, there are thousands of truly wonderful teachers and they get absolutely NO thanks and no recognition. We spend our personal time thinking about and planning ways to get kids interested in learning. We spend our own money to purchase supplies for students who don't bring their own. We go into this career because we love children and we want to make a difference. It's a very difficult job and it isn't getting any easier.


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## patwilson (Jan 13, 2006)

MickyeRedFisher said:


> Being a teacher myself, I can't even begin to express my feelings after reading all of these comments. I agree with some comments and disagree with others. I have a real problem with people who want to sit on their laurels and try to say that teachers are bad, they do a terrible job, only want a paycheck and the current problems are all their fault. The majority of us work very hard. We work more than 10 hours a day, 6 or 7 days a week. Plus we work summers... Teachers DO NOT get summers off, contrary to popular belief. We may not be IN our classrooms, but we ARE working... preparing for the coming year... Many of us go home at night crying because we are not getting the results we wish we were getting. For every "bad" teacher out there, there are thousands of truly wonderful teachers and they get absolutely NO thanks and no recognition. We spend our personal time thinking about and planning ways to get kids interested in learning. We spend our own money to purchase supplies for students who don't bring their own. We go into this career because we love children and we want to make a difference. It's a very difficult job and it isn't getting any easier.


Bingo.....,
I can vouch for this. (She's my wife)


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## State_Vet (Oct 10, 2006)

School sure has changed, I wish it was supposed to be "fun" and "entaining" when I was going to school In the "dark ages" on education we went to school to learn, if you were'nt motivated to learn it was'nt the teachers responsibility to motivate you, it was your parents job! (which usually involved corporal punishment).

When parents let "society" raise their children, there not going to like the result.


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## dreamcaster (May 24, 2004)

Well guys, I'm not a teacher, or all knowing or anything, but,...if I was gonna err, it would be on the side of the teacher, I've got a 14, a 10, and a 6 year old, I'm also a background checked volunteer for our schools, field trip chaperone, chair stacker, trash picker,....spent just about about enough time around teachers and students to have figured out that the first obstacle to teaching is to get the "students" to settle down and pay attention, sad as it is, controlling disruptive students seems to be task one....


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## cva34 (Dec 22, 2008)

*Hair cut*

Would be a good Start!!! cva34


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## ksk (Aug 9, 2008)

The teacher was put on administrative leave pending investigation.It seems that many complaints had come from other students over a period of time.


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

State_Vet said:


> School sure has changed, I wish it was supposed to be "fun" and "entaining" when I was going to school In the "dark ages" on education we went to school to learn, if you were'nt motivated to learn it was'nt the teachers responsibility to motivate you, it was your parents job! (which usually involved corporal punishment).
> 
> When parents let "society" raise their children, there not going to like the result.


 Whether it's "supposed to be" fun or entertaining isn't exactly the point: that's just what it ends up being when you've got good teachers, with the students that aren't actively intent on making sure that doesn't' happen, anyway. If you've got a really good teacher, the most mundane subject matter CAN be entertaining, fun, and as a result the kids actually learn. You learn a whole lot quicker when you're actually interested, and the most involved parent doesn't have diddly-squat to do with that: even the most "parentally motivated" kid is going to suffer if their teacher is just there going through the motions or worse...


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

2wahoo said:


> Yeah, that's right. The teacher sucks and the student knows everything! Figures!
> 
> I didn't watch the video and I don't know any of the dynamics of that particular classroom setting. But, I would love to see some of you clowns step in and teach a class of students in a core subject class like Algebra 2 for 1 semester. Let you guys deal with unmotivated students, unrealistic or totally uninvolved parents, and so many state exams that you don't have time to teach the subject.


 So you didn't watch the video, and you make that kind of characterization about it.

You have got to realize just how badly that reflects on your position, right?

Don't watch this, too; it was on the little "trailer videos" after that one:






That kid may be a bit on the arrogant side, certainly, but he's anything but unmotivated. He'll in all likelihood do well in life, even if the school district has saddled him with a do-nothing teacher.. With the exception of the aforementioned needing a haircut, a kid with that kind of passion about his own education really ought to be a teacher's wet dream; a teacher who finds that a threat probably needs to find another line of work.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Nov 4, 2011)

dwilliams35 said:


> So you didn't watch the video, and you make that kind of characterization about it.
> 
> You have got to realize just how badly that reflects on your position, right?
> 
> ...


Exactly


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

Kid seems to have his head on a lot straighter than a lot of people give him credit for: he knows what he screwed up and what he didn't. I'm sure he'll grow out of that whole having Ron Paul for a hero part, though..


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## 2wahoo (May 21, 2004)

dwilliams35 said:


> So you didn't watch the video, and you make that kind of characterization about it.
> 
> You have got to realize just how badly that reflects on your position, right?
> 
> ...


DW, I am not saying that the teacher is Jaime Escalonte. But, I believe this was an ambush by that student. I doubt the video being taken was an accident. In today's Twitter world there are people who would instigate this event for the sole purpose of video taping the reaction. Have you considered that?


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## just plain bill (Jul 8, 2009)

if you make it fun, you will get better results. it's just the way kids are raised these days. kids with 150 dollar shoes but eating free lunch. the first time a kid hears "no" from me is probably the 1st time ANYONE has told 'em no...it's pretty shocking sometimes. (8th grade reading) 
yeah, not every tchr is super outstanding, but all the ones i've worked with give 100% and bust their butts to help kids.
i run contests all the time. short term and long term. put 'em in small groups of 3 or 4 and award points for using academic language accountable talk, expressing their reasons for answers they give or debate another group's answer. it's a fun way to tch and learn. there are ways to motivate.
the kid in the vid is not being reached. that much i DO know. what i don't know is what goes on in that classroom. sometimes i literally have to grab my lips to stop talking so i can let the kids express themselves.
it's also a good idea to give kids a choice in how they learn. do they want to learn this way or that way? let's try it. they buy in and wind up learning. so many tricks to use...
unfortunately, i missed 4 days last week. 3 saturday's ago i had TIA ministroke. went to ER and they put me on baby aspirin and sent me home. went to school the next 2 weeks having, i know now, minor TIA's on the way to school. set up dr appts after school so i could do the important work that must be done. had heart surgery thursday to plug the hole in my heart that was causing the TIA's.  resting comfortably at home now, and hope to get back to school monday. got kids that need to retest on the staar. i'm not sure if i'm super dedicated or super stupid. tell ya one thing. i dont like needles in my arms and groin! almost fainted! no lie!

also, sometimes you can take a kid that doesn't seem to care, or is disruptive, or whatever, and turn 'em into tchrs. had a young lady that sat there doing nothing all year. bad attitude. bad everything. caught her outside the room where i greet kids, told her my throat was sore, and needed her to teach. told her to act like me. she kicked assessment! ya gotta try anything and everything these days. but it can be done.


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## just plain bill (Jul 8, 2009)

just watched the vid above...18 and a sophomore? wth? somebody somewhere should have found out what he wants to do w/ his life and steer him in the right direction. and the whole m&m posturing is a drawback. but there's something about this kid. he wants to be helped. i think he could shine in the right setting. sounds like that tchr needs to adjust her way of tching. she's gotta figure out how to reach every kid in that classroom. we can't afford to lose a single kid. like he said, these kids are the future of our country.


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## ST.SIMONS (Jan 27, 2010)

As the father of a National Honor Society student I have taught my daughter that whether you like the teacher or not you have to work hard. In life you will have bosses that are a complete joke but you just have to deal with it. Such is life and its many ups and downs. This brings to mind the signs I see for fair, positive soccer. My kids will never play that **** as it does not reflect real life and you are only hampering them in the long run. I would like to thank all the wonderful teachers out there especially in Dickinson ISD. A great school district that does not get the recognition it deserves due to some having issues with people of other skin tones.


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

2wahoo said:


> DW, I am not saying that the teacher is Jaime Escalonte. But, I believe this was an ambush by that student. I doubt the video being taken was an accident. In today's Twitter world there are people who would instigate this event for the sole purpose of video taping the reaction. Have you considered that?


 Does it matter if it's spontaneous or staged if it's accurate? The more I look at it, the more I really think it was spontaneous, and some classmate saw it escalating and broke out his or her phone and started recording it. The teacher's been suspended, the school district is just scratching their head whether to try to punish the kid or just try to sweep it under the rug: I really think this is just one of those times when the kid was probably right, however rare it may be.


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## Fishdaze (Nov 16, 2004)

just plain bill said:


> just watched the vid above...*18 and a sophomore? wth?* somebody somewhere should have found out what he wants to do w/ his life and steer him in the right direction. and the whole m&m posturing is a drawback. but there's something about this kid. he wants to be helped. i think he could shine in the right setting. sounds like that tchr needs to adjust her way of tching. she's gotta figure out how to reach every kid in that classroom. we can't afford to lose a single kid. like he said, these kids are the future of our country.


They had an interview with the kid on the CNN website. He's a former drop-out who re-enrolled in shchool to finish his education, after realizing he needed an education. His mother is a teacher also.


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## State_Vet (Oct 10, 2006)

dwilliams35 said:


> Whether it's "supposed to be" fun or entertaining isn't exactly the point: that's just what it ends up being when you've got good teachers, with the students that aren't actively intent on making sure that doesn't' happen, anyway. If you've got a really good teacher, the most mundane subject matter CAN be entertaining, fun, and as a result the kids actually learn. You learn a whole lot quicker when you're actually interested, and the most involved parent doesn't have diddly-squat to do with that: even the most "parentally motivated" kid is going to suffer if their teacher is just there going through the motions or worse...


So what exactly is a "good" teacher? one that is motivated but teaches unmotivated students or is it an an unmotivated teacher who teaches motivated students who learn regardless?

Seems like all the burden is put on the teacher when its actually the responsibility of the student, teacher, and parents.


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## Chase This! (Jul 20, 2007)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> What the hell does the length of that kids hair have to do with anything? I grew my hair to my *** and had no problem doing my job, moving up and becoming a supervisor over a small company


And look how you turned out.


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## 6.5 shooter dude (Jan 8, 2008)

Chase This! said:


> And look how you turned out.


All the French fries you could ever want


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## ReelWork (May 21, 2004)

Just remember one thing son... No pickles on my burger.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Nov 4, 2011)

Chase This! said:


> And look how you turned out.


What do you know about me? I was a supervisor when I was 24. Keep your trap shut and don't act like you know who I am from reading a paragraph on the internet.


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

State_Vet said:


> So what exactly is a "good" teacher? one that is motivated but teaches unmotivated students or is it an an unmotivated teacher who teaches motivated students who learn regardless?
> 
> Seems like all the burden is put on the teacher when its actually the responsibility of the student, teacher, and parents.


 That's a heck of an oversimplification.. It's by no means ALL the teacher's burden, but the best teachers can override a lack of motivation/responsibility/whatever by the other two in that equation, plus a few others as well. (administration, society they're planted in, etc...) If the teacher sucks, the best students do mediocre work, or at least well below their actual capabilities. The best teachers will have even the sorriest excuse for a student performing above their traditional level.. Any of those three can make up for deficiencies in any of the other two.

Your characterization of "all the burden" is just a self-fulfilling prophecy: if you've got a really great teacher, making up for those deficiencies of others, they'll basically assume that burden. On the other hand, a bad teacher sitting on their butt and drawing a paycheck while good students slip through the cracks as a result will generally get a pass on not carrying their weight, upheld by the teachers union (or what acts as one in Texas' case). That pass is generally accompanied by incessant whining about how the kids are unmotivated and the parents apathetic and uninvolved. You don't hear that whine as much from the really, really good teachers: they just accept it as an extra challenge instead of an insurmountable obstacle.

What this video represents is basically an affront to the status quo: the standard model here is a punk kid making a jackass of himself in a class. If it was, (as it very possibly may be) the reverse, an essential revolt of a motivated kid against a do-nothing teacher who is holding him back, there's a lot of people out there that don't seem to be able to make the mental leap of faith that such a scenario is even possible. The standard reaction is to give the teacher the pass, and assume that the student is an arrogant punk. He may very well be arrogant, and may even have some punk tendencies, but the teacher basically gets off scot-free because of this preconceived notion of teachers being shackled by punk kids and lousy parents. Just as there's bad kids, and bad parents, there's also bad teachers, and we've gotten to a place where any effort, on anybody's part, to call out a bad teacher is met with a cacophony of complaints about bad kids and parents being the cause of their failure..


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## State_Vet (Oct 10, 2006)

dwilliams35 said:


> That's a heck of an oversimplification.. It's by no means ALL the teacher's burden, but the best teachers can override a lack of motivation/responsibility/whatever by the other two in that equation, plus a few others as well. (administration, society they're planted in, etc...) If the teacher sucks, the best students do mediocre work, or at least well below their actual capabilities. The best teachers will have even the sorriest excuse for a student performing above their traditional level.. Any of those three can make up for deficiencies in any of the other two.
> 
> Your characterization of "all the burden" is just a self-fulfilling prophecy: if you've got a really great teacher, making up for those deficiencies of others, they'll basically assume that burden. On the other hand, a bad teacher sitting on their butt and drawing a paycheck while good students slip through the cracks as a result will generally get a pass on not carrying their weight, upheld by the teachers union (or what acts as one in Texas' case). That pass is generally accompanied by incessant whining about how the kids are unmotivated and the parents apathetic and uninvolved. You don't hear that whine as much from the really, really good teachers: they just accept it as an extra challenge instead of an insurmountable obstacle.
> 
> What this video represents is basically an affront to the status quo: the standard model here is a punk kid making a jackass of himself in a class. If it was, (as it very possibly may be) the reverse, an essential revolt of a motivated kid against a do-nothing teacher who is holding him back, there's a lot of people out there that don't seem to be able to make the mental leap of faith that such a scenario is even possible. The standard reaction is to give the teacher the pass, and assume that the student is an arrogant punk. He may very well be arrogant, and may even have some punk tendencies, but the teacher basically gets off scot-free because of this preconceived notion of teachers being shackled by punk kids and lousy parents. Just as there's bad kids, and bad parents, there's also bad teachers, and we've gotten to a place where any effort, on anybody's part, to call out a bad teacher is met with a cacophony of complaints about bad kids and parents being the cause of their failure..


As i stated its a shared responsibility, however it seems you want to single out the teacher in this case based on a short video, something I can't do based on the limited info. Blame should be placed on whoever deserves it, teachers, students, parents once everthings been looked at, not a short video.


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

State_Vet said:


> As i stated its a shared responsibility, however it seems you want to single out the teacher in this case based on a short video, something I can't do based on the limited info. Blame should be placed on whoever deserves it, teachers, students, parents once everthings been looked at, not a short video.


 Actually, that's based on about five videos, some of them much longer than that, and several news stories which I've read on the subject since this broke... The farther I got into it, the better the kid looked. He's got an uphill climb, too: how many people, as shown by posts in this thread and elsewhere, are just defaulting to "punk kid": that's the standard position, and he's got to overcome that in order to gain legitimacy in the issue..


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## Chase This! (Jul 20, 2007)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> What do you know about me? I was a supervisor when I was 24. Keep your trap shut and don't act like you know who I am from reading a paragraph on the internet.


I rest my case.


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## Team Burns (May 6, 2008)

Just to correct some information on here: no teachers union in Texas & teachers are told to move on. This has especially changed over the past five years.


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## Team Burns (May 6, 2008)

Quick question about the kid who recorded the video; did he/she have legal permission to upload this video from the viewed students and teacher in the classroom? Even as teachers we are required to have permission.


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

Team Burns said:


> Just to correct some information on here: no teachers union in Texas & teachers are told to move on. This has especially changed over the past five years.


 Just because they don't call it a union doesn't mean it doesn't act like one...


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## roundman (May 21, 2004)

haha, reddie for me! my bias? for posting this? setup, how would i know that? lmao , haa, i choose to who gets my reedies and you wont get one,lol

Go and ahead and give me a reddie back,ur bias came thru strongly here. You never asked yourself if this is a good idea. Students setting a up a teacher with video. What if this happened in ur work place to you? Like just about all ur post, no here


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## Team Burns (May 6, 2008)

roundman said:


> haha, reddie for me! my bias? for posting this? setup, how would i know that? lmao , haa, i choose to who gets my reedies and you wont get one,lol
> 
> Go and ahead and give me a reddie back,ur bias came thru strongly here. You never asked yourself if this is a good idea. Students setting a up a teacher with video. What if this happened in ur work place to you? Like just about all ur post, no here


Your bias came thru and I gave you a reddie. I stand by it, nobody on here has considered this happening at thier workplace. Of course you decide, but you decided to stir the pot. What else did you expect to happen with this thread? Lol, I was just posting. Sure thing....very transparent! People are very quick on this site to fight for the right of others even involved in illegal activities. This teacher could be doing a bad job, but still should lose her job based on evaluations or typical protocol. My opinion, I would speak up for anyone on 2cool the same way. Including those on here that believe the public school system does a bad job. Having jobs being decided by the court of public of opinion by YouTube videos might not be a good idea.


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## Team Burns (May 6, 2008)

dwilliams35 said:


> Just because they don't call it a union doesn't mean it doesn't act like one...


Please tell me about this, because I am not sure what your referencing. Texas is at will state and we can lose our jobs year to year. Sorry, to say we have a union is reach. Please post websites and names. I need to know myself including my coworkers. Btw, TEA is not a union.


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## MarkDiaz (Jul 28, 2011)

*Teachers under paid??? Bull Chit*

I am so tired of hearing that teachers are under paid. That is such a crock of chit. You don't sign up for a job and then ask how much the pay is. All teachers go to college to get the degree, then, once we reach our goal, we become a teacher for X salary a year (what a shocker, I didn't realize that I would only make X a year). But I get two weeks off for Christmas, week off Turkey day, 2 months off during the Summer to surf and fish, etc... pretty decent retirement for only 20 years of service. TEA is not a union, and I can take my degree and do other things with it. I'm no teacher, but my older brother was(coach), now he's doing something else. Most teachers (women, I'll take heat for this), want the Christmas/turkey day/summers off to be with their kids so they can prepare for their families. Yes, they do put up with a bunch of chit, but trust me, they know what they are getting into... We all want more money... Some of us choose to work the overtime, get a second job or for what really counts, get a job that is full time all year round, not full time part time...


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## roundman (May 21, 2004)

Team Burns said:


> Your bias came thru and I gave you a reddie. I stand by it, nobody on here has considered this happening at thier workplace. Of course you decide, but you decided to stir the pot. What else did you expect to happen with this thread? Lol, I was just posting. Sure thing....very transparent! People are very quick on this site to fight for the right of others even involved in illegal activities. This teacher could be doing a bad job, but still should lose her job based on evaluations or typical protocol. My opinion, I would speak up for anyone on 2cool the same way. Including those on here that believe the public school system does a bad job. Having jobs being decided by the court of public of opinion by YouTube videos might not be a good idea.


btw, when i had posted the thread i had no idea it was/or could have been a setup until i saw the video posted on post # 63, when i saw that i thought it might have been a setup, but still dont know that for sure? do you have a link to show it was setup? also i didnt see anywhere i stirred up the pot except for posting the story , if that what your calling me stirring the pot, ohh and being stupid cause i dont know school terms nowadays as like " packets ",,,:spineyes:


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

Team Burns said:


> Please tell me about this, because I am not sure what your referencing. Texas is at will state and we can lose our jobs year to year. Sorry, to say we have a union is reach. Please post websites and names. I need to know myself including my coworkers. Btw, TEA is not a union.


TSTA, TAFT, Houston federation of teachers, etc. Teachers just don't have collective bargaining, but they've certainly got unions, that do all the normal union games: lobbying, taking over disciplinary hearings, etc.. Get one caught with dope in her car at school and watch Gayle Fallon go to work. It's disgusting.


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## Team Burns (May 6, 2008)

dwilliams35 said:


> TSTA, TAFT, Houston federation of teachers, etc. Teachers just don't have collective bargaining, but they've certainly got unions, that do all the normal union games: lobbying, taking over disciplinary hearings, etc.. Get one caught with dope in her car at school and watch Gayle Fallon go to work. It's disgusting.


Interesting, at the local level I am not sure what are referring to....at state level questionable. They do not help at the level of a union...in 17 years I have heard of one teacher that I worked with fight something. Describe it any way you want, we still do not have the protection of a state union. Teachers are let go because of low evaluation etc. It happens, the process plays itself out sometimes. Maybe this type of protections need to be described to a couple of people I know.

RR, you still new what your were doing....play innocent though.

I am checking out of this one, I know everyone has their opinions about the education system. Still concerned about videos being uploaded on YouTube without consent. Then again, does not follow the typical discussion about education....this kind of stuff should be handled the appropriate way. Not through a public website.


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## roundman (May 21, 2004)

ok, ill play dumb, but seemed to me the teacher hands out "packets" which i still not sure what exactly it is but maybe the lesson for the day the teacher hands out? when i was in school all the way from elementary to high school we had teachers hands on, standing in front of us teaching etc, so im not sure how it is these days but i was in a technical vocational school that taught me to be a welder and as a pipewelder in the plants almost all welds that are done are xrayed etc so constantly/if not everday you are being tested to keep you job and if you fail 2-3 xrays you are finding work elsewhere


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

Team Burns said:


> Interesting, at the local level I am not sure what are referring to....at state level questionable. They do not help at the level of a union...in 17 years I have heard of one teacher that I worked with fight something. Describe it any way you want, we still do not have the protection of a state union. Teachers are let go because of low evaluation etc. It happens, the process plays itself out sometimes. Maybe this type of protections need to be described to a couple of people I know.
> 
> RR, you still new what your were doing....play innocent though.
> 
> I am checking out of this one, I know everyone has their opinions about the education system. Still concerned about videos being uploaded on YouTube without consent. Then again, does not follow the typical discussion about education....this kind of stuff should be handled the appropriate way. Not through a public website.


 You really, really need to take another look at the various teacher's unions active in Texas. Collective bargaining isn't the only thing unions do, and the teachers' unions in Texas do everything else that a union does with gusto... Right down to picket lines, goons, etc...


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## Team Burns (May 6, 2008)

dwilliams35 said:


> You really, really need to take another look at the various teacher's unions active in Texas. Collective bargaining isn't the only thing unions do, and the teachers' unions in Texas do everything else that a union does with gusto... Right down to picket lines, goons, etc...


Alright, you hooked me back in! Wow, you really know all of this stuff....let me check out of all of this since you are an expert (lol). The group you refer to are NOT unions. They represent us as teachers for legislation at times and protect our rights *if* we have proper documentation etc (student accusing a teacher of improper activity). Also, not one time have you address my concern of videos in the classroom and the methods being used through their proper channels. You sir have an agenda concerning teachers and are blowing smoke.:spineyes: What are you conspiracies concerning teachers??? Lol, we do not have union reps, we can be let go based on an several bad evaluations, no strikes, we are not required to leave at required times, we are at will, we sign contracts without knowing our future salaries, and I can continue with the comparisons. Please check-out true state teacher unions and their activities (apples and oranges). Once again, wow, hard to believe you think this.

Following what you said we as teachers are able to walk out the door this fall and demand higher wages. We could organize a strike as a state and work for better benefits. Nope, we could all be fired and not receive our jobs again. Your function (input-output) is not the same of a true union. Btw, you have been in the education system for how long now? Also, what about the video to youtube again (usually a release form is required)? Let's see if you ignore this problem again???


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

Team Burns said:


> Alright, you hooked me back in! Wow, you really know all of this stuff....let me check out of all of this since you are an expert (lol). The group you refer to are NOT unions. They represent us as teachers for legislation at times and protect our rights *if* we have proper documentation etc (student accusing a teacher of improper activity). Also, not one time have you address my concern of videos in the classroom and the methods being used through their proper channels. You sir have an agenda concerning teachers and are blowing smoke.:spineyes: What are you conspiracies concerning teachers??? Lol, we do not have union reps, we can be let go based on an several bad evaluations, no strikes, we are not required to leave at required times, we are at will, we sign contracts without knowing our future salaries, and I can continue with the comparisons. Please check-out true state teacher unions and their activities (apples and oranges). Once again, wow, hard to believe you think this.
> 
> Following what you said we as teachers are able to walk out the door this fall and demand higher wages. We could organize a strike as a state and work for better benefits. Nope, we could all be fired and not receive our jobs again. Your function (input-output) is not the same of a true union. Btw, you have been in the education system for how long now? Also, what about the video to youtube again (usually a release form is required)? Let's see if you ignore this problem again???


 Well, for starters, you seem to be the only one on this thread who is utterly fixated on getting somebody to sign a release. As far as I'm concerned, that's ancillary at best and might be fodder for another thread, but I for one really don't give a **** about it..

Meanwhile, you also seem to be incapable of getting over a rust-belt interpretation of a union: the one thing that TX teachers unions don't have is collective bargaining. That's it. They still do lobbying, representing members in hearings and in court, pack board rooms with disruptive members when issues on their agenda come up, launch concerted protests, picket lines, and media campaigns for the same issues, exert pressure on management on behalf of individual members and groups thereof, etc. etc. etc.: sure, it's different than the UAW, but don't even entertain the illusion that it's not a union.

My "agenda" is that I know ******** when I see it and don't keep my mouth shut about it. The current agenda of much of the TX educational infrastructure, guided by said union agendas, is completely out of line with a proper course for our educational system.

How long have I been "in the education system"? Well, besides spending all my educational time K-BBA and beyond in TX state supported schools, I also have been "in the educational system" at some level from about two seconds after I was born. My dad was a teacher from the early 60's to the 90's in TX public schools, was and is very, very active in assorted unions and professional organizations attached to same including being in elected leadership positions, spent countless days in Austin lobbying for union causes, etc. etc. etc... Needless to say, my being a conservative, he and I have an occasional related issue that we don't see eye to eye on, but I've been anything but "unexposed" to TX teacher's unions..

I've also had the misfortune of seeing Ms. Fallon hard at work from a completely unrelated perspective. Not a pretty sight, but I better leave the details of that out of a public forum.


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## Team Burns (May 6, 2008)

DW,

Naturally you would say that about the video. Just as you said it does not "fit" your agenda or concerns. Does not matter if it is legal or not....hhhmmm interesting. In my opinion it does. We as a society should not overlook due process or I guess we should not in this case because it is a teacher. You are being challenged by me and find it frustrating. Naturally, the next thing to do is call me a name and try to discredit what is really happening with the education system. We are a at will state and the unions you are talking about are actually organizations. Check out other states and compare the difference in what is able to happen in Texas. Hhhuuugggee difference...wow, you really have an axe to grind.


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## G-O-T-B (Jan 15, 2010)

there are no unions in Texas for teachers


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

Team Burns said:


> DW,
> 
> Naturally you would say that about the video. Just as you said it does not "fit" your agenda or concerns. Does not matter if it is legal or not....hhhmmm interesting. In my opinion it does. We as a society should not overlook due process or I guess we should not in this case because it is a teacher. You are being challenged by me and find it frustrating. Naturally, the next thing to do is call me a name and try to discredit what is really happening with the education system. We are a at will state and the unions you are talking about are actually organizations. Check out other states and compare the difference in what is able to happen in Texas. Hhhuuugggee difference...wow, you really have an axe to grind.


 Put your psychoanalysis hat back in the closet: you suck at it. Meanwhile, the legal ramifications of that video is still irrelevant here: that's not the point of this thread, and nobody thus far has fallen for your incessant efforts to misdirect this thread to what is effectively an unrelated tangent. That's a completely different argument, and in my opinion, a truly boring one. Of course, I'm sure you get all tingly at the prospect of a kid with a camera falling victim to a massive lawsuit related to this, so we'll just call that a matter of opinion. Go ahead and post a new thread about it: maybe somebody will find it to be an engaging topic.

Meanwhile, the education system has discredited itself without me: I'm just a guy among many that has said that the emperor has no clothes, and you don't want to hear that you're neck deep in a failed system. The second it became a carrier for political and societal agendas rather than a conduit for knowledge and thought processes, it was doomed.

Meanwhile, ever hear the phrase "walks like a duck....?


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## Quepos1 (Jan 21, 2011)

I


Team Burns said:


> DW,
> 
> Naturally you would say that about the video. Just as you said it does not "fit" your agenda or concerns. Does not matter if it is legal or not....hhhmmm interesting. In my opinion it does. We as a society should not overlook due process or I guess we should not in this case because it is a teacher. You are being challenged by me and find it frustrating. Naturally, the next thing to do is call me a name and try to discredit what is really happening with the education system. We are a at will state and the unions you are talking about are actually organizations. Check out other states and compare the difference in what is able to happen in Texas. Hhhuuugggee difference...wow, you really have an axe to grind.


Just to point out a couple of things: "Due Process" is normally a legal concept and may not matter in this instance unless there is a provision which is in the teacher's contract.

Second, in Texas it is legal to record an event between two individuals as long as one of the participants agrees to the recording. Whether the school district has a policy forbidding the students recording is a disciplinary matter but would not be illegal under state law.

Finally, it is legal to record events which take place in public and a court may determine this was a public event in which case it wouldn't matter whether the teacher and student knew a recording was taking place. One would have to know the law recording this type of event which I doubt any of us know.


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## Team Burns (May 6, 2008)

dwilliams35 said:


> Put your psychoanalysis hat back in the closet: you suck at it.
> 
> Meanwhile, the education system has discredited itself without me: I'm just a guy among many that has said that the emperor has no clothes, and you don't want to hear that you're neck deep in a failed system. The second it became a carrier for political and societal agendas rather than a conduit for knowledge and thought processes, it was doomed.
> 
> Meanwhile, ever hear the phrase "walks like a duck....?


There you go DW, let out the true anger inside. You have a problem with the Texas public school system and to make a point you bend the truth. 
Right on queue with the remark.(lol) In return, you are not very good at attempting to force people to believe the same way you do. Btw, there are more than two people in the video....other students are involved. Maybe you do not care, but maybe they do not like the association or plain do not want their student on youtube. Oh, I forgot, it is about the agenda. These are things you consider when you are a teacher. You keep talking about the failure of public education. Did I type something defending it or are you inferring? Our original discussion started with teacher organizations. Once again, you are very frustrated man about this and feel the need to hammer down on someone that teaches. Let me make a few calls tomorrow and change this whole thing!!! :work:

Q1; good to know and thanks for the information. You are correct, my use of due process was not in the right setting. I was using it to in a context of this should be handled by the campus. Since we are fine with this process then, I am sure this type of stuff is hitting the private sector. Good luck, the next youtube video could be anyone on 2cool. Soon it will not matter what work force you are involved in...


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## Mick R. (Apr 21, 2011)

G-O-T-B said:


> there are no unions in Texas for teachers


Actually there is a Teacher's Union in Texas but it is very weak. My wife just retired after teaching for 40 years and the only reason she was a union member was for the legal insurance.


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

Team Burns said:


> There you go DW, let out the true anger inside. You have a problem with the Texas public school system and to make a point you bend the truth.
> Right on queue with the remark.(lol) In return, you are not very good at attempting to force people to believe the same way you do. Btw, there are more than two people in the video....other students are involved. Maybe you do not care, but maybe they do not like the association or plain do not want their student on youtube. Oh, I forgot, it is about the agenda. These are things you consider when you are a teacher. You keep talking about the failure of public education. Did I type something defending it or are you inferring? Our original discussion started with teacher organizations. Once again, you are very frustrated man about this and feel the need to hammer down on someone that teaches. Let me make a few calls tomorrow and change this whole thing!!! :work:
> .


Okay, yoda-boy. whatever you say. Glad you enjoy it.


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## Team Burns (May 6, 2008)

dwilliams35 said:


> Okay, *yoda-boy*. whatever you say. Glad you enjoy it.


 Like I said, you are not use to people standing up to you. No, I will not coward down to you like an abused dog. Last but not least you established my point...you called me a name. I would of left the thread but you decided to challenge me with "you should check out organizations better". Here is my point, how many 2coolers would enjoy a thread bashing their career field of choice? Then make a few points about it and find him/herself being told how bad they are possibility at it (or being a part of the issue). I believe not too many 2coolers would take it to kindly. Funny thing is, I am a father, fisherman, and a teacher. Believe it or not, I work hard at what I do and I am proud of it! Keep on demonizing people like me...I am sure this helps the solution!


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

Team Burns said:


> Like I said, you are not use to people standing up to you. No, I will not coward down to you like an abused dog. Last but not least you established my point...you called me a name. I would of left the thread but you decided to challenge me with "you should check out organizations better". Here is my point, how many 2coolers would enjoy a thread bashing their career field of choice? Then make a few points about it and find him/herself being told how bad they are possibility at it (or being a part of the issue). I believe not too many 2coolers would take it to kindly. Funny thing is, I am a father, fisherman, and a teacher. Believe it or not, I work hard at what I do and I am proud of it! Keep on demonizing people like me...I am sure this helps the solution!


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## seabo (Jun 29, 2006)

Fishdaze said:


> They had an interview with the kid on the CNN website. He's a former drop-out who re-enrolled in shchool to finish his education, after realizing he needed an education. His mother is a teacher also.


there you have it, the boy learned his mad teaching skills from his mom so it really wasnt him that taught the teacher how to teach.... it was another teacher....


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## greenhornet (Apr 21, 2010)

So, every job that has professional organizations is union now?


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## RockinU (Aug 13, 2006)

dwilliams35 said:


> That's a heck of an oversimplification.. It's by no means ALL the teacher's burden, but the best teachers can override a lack of motivation/responsibility/whatever by the other two in that equation, plus a few others as well. (administration, society they're planted in, etc...) If the teacher sucks, the best students do mediocre work, or at least well below their actual capabilities. The best teachers will have even the sorriest excuse for a student performing above their traditional level.. Any of those three can make up for deficiencies in any of the other two.
> 
> Your characterization of "all the burden" is just a self-fulfilling prophecy: if you've got a really great teacher, making up for those deficiencies of others, they'll basically assume that burden. On the other hand, a bad teacher sitting on their butt and drawing a paycheck while good students slip through the cracks as a result will generally get a pass on not carrying their weight, upheld by the teachers union (or what acts as one in Texas' case). That pass is generally accompanied by incessant whining about how the kids are unmotivated and the parents apathetic and uninvolved. You don't hear that whine as much from the really, really good teachers: they just accept it as an extra challenge instead of an insurmountable obstacle.
> 
> What this video represents is basically an affront to the status quo: the standard model here is a punk kid making a jackass of himself in a class. If it was, (as it very possibly may be) the reverse, an essential revolt of a motivated kid against a do-nothing teacher who is holding him back, there's a lot of people out there that don't seem to be able to make the mental leap of faith that such a scenario is even possible. The standard reaction is to give the teacher the pass, and assume that the student is an arrogant punk. He may very well be arrogant, and may even have some punk tendencies, but the teacher basically gets off scot-free because of this preconceived notion of teachers being shackled by punk kids and lousy parents. Just as there's bad kids, and bad parents, there's also bad teachers, and we've gotten to a place where any effort, on anybody's part, to call out a bad teacher is met with a cacophony of complaints about bad kids and parents being the cause of their failure..


Talk about gross over simplifications...I hate to break it to all of the hand wringers out there, but not all kids can be reached regardless of who is standing at the front of the class. My wife teaches 8th grade science at a school where over 90% of the students are on free lunch, she has students who live in a group home for kids who have been taken from their parents, she has to take a class herself every year to teach her any new gang signs that she needs to be aware of, and which gang affiliations can't be mixed. This year she was one of 30 teachers in the country, and the only one in Texas to be selected as a teacher liaison to the Space Foundation. She schedules speakers from NASA, The Civil Air Patrol, Texas A&M University, and others. Her "Science Night" program where students could bring their families to see demonstrations, experiments, and presentations was the best attended non-sports after school activity of the year. Her science club is the largest club on campus, and her "get hip to habitat" work with the Galveston Bay foundation is the most popular program in the district. She took field trips to Texas A&M's physics day, and two to Galveston for marsh grass restoration. She is her school's Teacher Of The Year, and a finalist for the district award. She's as dedicated as they come, and I don't get to see her all that much...she busts her butt to engage and inspire her students, but you know what?...she doesn't reach them all...you know why? Cause some of them just don't care, they were raised to not care, their parents don't care, their siblings don't care, they are surrounded by a whole little culture that DOES NOT CARE...and that's something that no teacher, no matter how talented, or dedicated, or entertaining can do...can't make em care when they don't want to...I hope I haven't burst any idyllic bubbles here, but this is the real world, where children will be left behind because of the culture in which they live, it's not right, it's a sad terrible waste, but it's fact...


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## RockinU (Aug 13, 2006)

MarkDiaz said:


> I am so tired of hearing that teachers are under paid. That is such a crock of chit. You don't sign up for a job and then ask how much the pay is. All teachers go to college to get the degree, then, once we reach our goal, we become a teacher for X salary a year (what a shocker, I didn't realize that I would only make X a year). But I get two weeks off for Christmas, week off Turkey day, 2 months off during the Summer to surf and fish, etc... pretty decent retirement for only 20 years of service. TEA is not a union, and I can take my degree and do other things with it. I'm no teacher, but my older brother was(coach), now he's doing something else. Most teachers (women, I'll take heat for this), want the Christmas/turkey day/summers off to be with their kids so they can prepare for their families. Yes, they do put up with a bunch of chit, but trust me, they know what they are getting into... We all want more money... Some of us choose to work the overtime, get a second job or for what really counts, get a job that is full time all year round, not full time part time...


I don't complain about what my wife makes...nor does she, but you are completely clueless. If good teachers were paid by the hour the rate would be criminal. At least 3 days a week she leaves the house by 6:00 am and doesn't get home til after 10:00 pm. She usually allows herself one day on the weekends off, usually Sunday, but the other is usually at least half spent on school. Summers? With all the CE stuff, and other "programs" we have to send our kids to camps or other things a good bit of the summer. Not many people put in more hours than teachers...as the husband of a teacher, I find it quite ridiculous myself, but it's what she chooses to do, for the most part without complaint.


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## deerhunter5 (Oct 12, 2011)

This is some BS. "Find a new Career" ?? Really??? These are the same people that would cry about their kids not having teachers. My son is in 8th grade, and you should hear about the stories he has about kids thinking it cool to mouth off to a teacher. Most (not all) of their parents would not tolerate the way they speak to their teachers. With that being said, the students whose parents don't care about the way he talks to adults, make the other children think it's cool to mouth off. Every day the teachers deal with this ****. The teachers can't say anything back. The only thing they can do is write a referral, which 3/4 of the time isn't read by the principle. Go spend one day in any public school, and you can see what I'm talking about for yourself.


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## Bozo (Jun 16, 2004)

deerhunter5 said:


> This is some BS. "Find a new Career" ?? Really??? These are the same people that would cry about their kids not having teachers. My son is in 8th grade, and you should hear about the stories he has about kids thinking it cool to mouth off to a teacher. Most (not all) of their parents would not tolerate the way they speak to their teachers. With that being said, the students whose parents don't care about the way he talks to adults, make the other children think it's cool to mouth off. Every day the teachers deal with this ****. The teachers can't say anything back. The only thing they can do is write a referral, which 3/4 of the time isn't read by the principle. Go spend one day in any public school, and you can see what I'm talking about for yourself.


My wife is a teacher, her opinion was that the kid was spot on.


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## RockinU (Aug 13, 2006)

And you know, in this case, maybe he is...personally I would have to know more to have that opinion. Even if he was "spot on" his presentation left some to be desired.

I really have no opinion on the incident in the video, what I take issue with is some of the attitudes in this thread. Some say the system is broken? Well I can readily affirm that, I see it up close and personal, but the biggest breaks aren't at the teacher level...that's like blaming the platoon Sargent in Afghanistan for BHO's foreign policy...

And no, what the teachers have in Texas does not resemble a union...


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