# Electric Newbies in Sportsman for HARC?



## jasonwipf (Feb 23, 2009)

Well for awhile there I thought Electric Noobies could be in sportsman class in HARC after the E-Buggies split, but apparently the E-Buggy Split was total and all levels of Electric buggies now race only with each other. Or in other words sportsman buggy is only nitro. Courtney and I discussed this a bit and wanted to get some feed back from you guys.

I realize we have a Novice class for Newbies but not only do we have guys like my son Alex and Ty Mills that are too good for that class but rarely do we have enough to make a novice class, and when we do they often do not stay when mains come too late in the evening like after midnight and the class dwindles from 8 entries to 2. Sorta not worth it and drags the evening on even more.

So now if you are beginning nitro racer or not quite expert level you can run in sportsman with others your same skill level. Then expert nitro buggy has only other expert level racers to run with (thats cool no problem there). 

What seems to be a problem with new racers that have electrics and/or Sportsman skilled Ebuggy racers is they are basically thrown in to race with expert level Electric buggies right now. Not only do they get hammered by the expert drivers in the quals they never feel much of a victory running in D,C or B main in Electric. If the electric sportsman level guys could run in sportsman with nitros they would have much "closer" races with guys their own level and they could feel better about their performance as well as have a better chance to getting in the Sportsman A main. At the moment however being mixed with expert Electric drivers, they get beat by 2-3 laps each qual, see their name rounding out position 6-10 most every time and never make the A main Electric. Thats no fun for them.

Then there is the fact that right now the Expert electric racers do have to race their quals in the gauntlet that is sportsman hacker lap traffic, a problem our gas brothers don't have to put up with. Not really fair for either of us electric guys huh?

We got young racers like my son Alex and Ty mills that don't even run electric buggy anymore cuz of this discouraging situation and new Ebuggy racers coming into the hobby who see this same situation.

I DO NOT want to create a new class of sportsman electric. Not only do we not have enough but it would make more classes that drag the night on too late. Do you guys have any problem with electric sportsman level buggy racers running with the nitro sportsman like we did last season? This would not create a new class but simply shift the same number of racers from one class "expert electric buggy" to where they should be skill-level wise to "Sportsman".


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## nik77356 (Jun 8, 2007)

There is no real way to put this without sounding like an elitist, but the only way to get faster is to run with people faster than you. I have been racing for almost 5 years and still haven't actually won a race yet (that I can remember). I think what you are proposing sounds good right now, but then we run into people whining about the pitting situation again. It was mainly sportsman drivers in the first place. 

I think the only solution is just to run it the way it is until there are enough to split the class (probably next year).


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## Hogster (Jan 21, 2010)

well I'm a begninner as of February with a ebuggy. However i dont have a problem running with the ebuggy experts and if I get lapped thats fine, i will know where i need to improve. Actually I'm looking forward to it. I'm not gonna leave even if my car blows up. I'll stay and watch and get to know peeps and watch the races. If by chance I'm much better than some beginners who may make it difficult to pass or wreck into me I will not be frustrated cause I know in the end after 3 quals I should get a fair shake at running a good qual, even if i dont get a good qaul the race should be long ebough for me to run /place where I should be. If theres much better racers than me then I'll get out the way and not wreck them going into or outta turns.

On another note: I just bought a new mugen and put a nitro engine in it because of the split class. So at this point it really doesn't matter "to me". If there's an all electric class and its full of experts thats what I'm running cause I'll also be running nitro in the sportsman.

Last thing: since I will be running sportsman nitro I wouldn't mind at all if there's ebuggies in there.


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## skillett (Mar 7, 2010)

I don't think the run times are there. 
How long do you suggest the main to be 12.50 min.?
Is battery swaps going to be a problem,can nitro run 20 min mains.
Not being smart just hate to give up run time.


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## Big Phil (Apr 27, 2007)

Yes i agree mix the novice together...But 5 wins and you gotta bump this would stop all the sand bagging i see at most races. I also think the novice mains should be no more than ten min..They are after all novice most noobs can't keep it together after that mark..(not bashing just saying thats all)


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## skillett (Mar 7, 2010)

Whoes sandbagging sportsman nitro been tight all year.


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## Big Phil (Apr 27, 2007)

skillett said:


> Whoes sandbagging sportsman nitro been tight all year.


Yea between 2 or 3? lol


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## jasonwipf (Feb 23, 2009)

nik: LOL your right it was the sportsman that whined about pitting last time. But we had good pitting rules that shut that up by season's end. Just gotta follow them like we do in Truggy now.

Hogster: omg yep your a good example of what I mean. While you got a great attitude about it. You did get a nitro to run with guys your own skill lvl, dont blame you. 

Skillet: Times dont have to change if we mixed sportsman, 15min is fine with 5000k packs 4s. If you dont make 15 min your using too small of a pack or have tremendously bad milage (322mah/min+, avg=230-270). Same pitting rules for electric as we had last year and this year for mixed classes.

Phil: LOL sandbaggers! Ya I dont want to name names, but..... 

I see what you mean about 10min, but man I know we are going to hear screaming from the nitro sportsman about cutting their main times if that happened. I think the guys who weren't making 15min were using 4100mah packs and running them hard.


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## kstoracing (Oct 30, 2008)

It seems as if it would just be adding the young racers to the class. Kids I have no problem with, but to just mix a class because the other racers are better is not the way to go. There's a thing called practice and practice some more. IDK, a newbie can't expect to be good the first few races out. 

But, for the kids to run a seperate class so dads can coach is different. Lol.


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## Big Phil (Apr 27, 2007)

kstoracing said:


> It seems as if it would just be adding the young racers to the class. Kids I have no problem with, but to just mix a class because the other racers are better is not the way to go. There's a thing called practice and practice some more. IDK, a newbie can't expect to be good the first few races out.
> 
> But, for the kids to run a seperate class so dads can coach is different. Lol.


 Same can be said for the nitro guys don't you think..Why should the novice buggy class just be for gas?


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## skillett (Mar 7, 2010)

Ok you like ebuggy thats awsome,but not everybody does.It takes more work with the nitro to keep running.We give up run time, speed and now you want nitro cars to adjust to ebuggy because the class isn't big enough for a sportsman class.What does ebuggy give up?Need I post all the advantages,nitro racers work with the pains to stay on the track a little longer.I like dime sized pistons on nitro making 2.6 hp @ 38000rpm with eye burning hot exuast fumes WEEEEEEEEEEEEEE,now thats awsome.
(Keep your esc I'll keep my carburator)

The first thing out of the mouth is nitro guys are whinning
but whoes really doing the whining?We don't want to swap batteries
run 15 min. mains blah blah blah.


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## killerkustoms (Nov 6, 2008)

I was talking to Willy and Matt this past weeknd about putting together an electric buggy, would I qualify as being able to run with the nitros, since I'd be a newbie electric with zero wins.

Also on Saturday it was only expert nitro drivers and I was probably the only sportsman nitro and maybe another guy. I didn't care running with them but it was a challenge, I finished 3-4 laps under the remaining pack and felt I was in those guys way. On a positive note I didn't finish last, Smiley flamed and another guy broke...lol..it was fun for me i think.:spineyes:


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## killerkustoms (Nov 6, 2008)

skillett said:


> We don't want to swap batteries
> run 15 min. mains blah blah blah.


Home Skillet if I go electric I want a 30 minute main and I don't have problem with swapping battery to keep going thats why we have nice pit lanes for, not just to start races from.:rybka:


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## kstoracing (Oct 30, 2008)

I guess I was watching a little too much B ball when typing this, or I am missing the real issue here.

If there is a novice class run them together if there isn't enough to run them seperate. That or just have a youngsters class, 12 or under or whatever. 

I think the real issue is a Dad wants to watch his son run rather than compete against him. I would be the same way, I have two girls. I would rather help them get better rather than be on the stand at the same time when I am trying to teach them.

Now, to take someone just getting in and trying to learn and there is only one class. Learn with the best. Soon their times will get better and so on. 

I am really not sure what the issue is, maybe I am looking into it too hard. 

Skillet is pretty quick I am getting close to being quick. I dont think moving people over will be the answer, especially in a sportsman class. They will be punted more than with the experts. Actually in that case they will learn quicker that way. Experts will be better at driving around them than the sportsman class. They will also be able to see how other drivers are taking lines around the track.

How about a "young guns" class?



At a club race if there isn't enough to run seperate, I can learn from the experts and hopefully be able to compete. Finishing the race is more important than winning sometimes. You're not going to win every race but, you can learn for every race and have a personal best at each one.


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## skillett (Mar 7, 2010)

Me being a father I understand the kid thing ,but that went out the window when a certain e-revo/truggy killed everyones kid in 2wd slash @ the Easter race.Don't you have a heart?


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## nik77356 (Jun 8, 2007)

We split the electric class for a reason. They should run in the electric class, end of story. Even though I run electric and would have no problem having the electrics run with the nitros if I still ran gas and we couldn't feasibly split them up. I would be angry if we had ebuggies running with the nitros if there was a class for them. 
What about the sportsman that run 4wd SC that don't get a win? What are we going to do for them?


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## jasonwipf (Feb 23, 2009)

Age has nothing to do with it. I got a middle aged guy who just got a RTR Ebuggy. Total noob on the track. Last sunday was his first time at mikes and it was like watching a pinball bounce around the machine. He will get much better very quick I'm sure but he is definitely sportsman material.

Skillet: If EBuggies go back into sportsman like last year. The nitro sprortsman do not have to do anything or give anything up. EBuggies are the ones who didnt have to do a mandatory pit before but now will be required to do one. If you got 8-10 guys in your sportsman race the only thing your likely to notice different is less noise and less guys in the pits to get tangled up with or compete for space and speed in those tight pits. (E guys tend to take their mandatory pits at times gas buggies do not so as to avoid pit traffic)

Then passing them or getting passed might be easier for you since Nitro and Electric tend to take subtly different lines around the turns.

In all honesty its just positives for you in those 2 aforementioned areas. 

The ONLY negitive you may perceive is the irrational frustration of a flame out on a race when competing Ebuggies in your class do not. You may lament about how unfair it is that they are more reliable. heck reliable nitros exist too if you tune properly. and heck ebuggies have more electrical connections that can and do come unpluged or come unsodered or have a lipo cut off, lipo fire ect. so we have our versions of flame outs too man. But I guarantee someone will cry about it. Anything to justify their loss due to their lack of tuning or mechanical preparation for a race. Electric is the inexperienced nitro's perfect scapegoat. But dont worry, your not like that right?

NIK: Good point about the Corr trucks. Thats purely not enough racers in those classes to justify 2 classes and split. We also do not have enough to make Sportsman Electric buggy. Hence the ease of just putting them with the rest of sportsman where their skills are better matched compared to being slaughtered you, jeremy, mark m, earl and other expert Ebuggy drivers.


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## jasonwipf (Feb 23, 2009)

skillett said:


> Me being a father I understand the kid thing ,but that went out the window when a certain e-revo/truggy killed everyones kid in 2wd slash @ the Easter race.Don't you have a heart?


LOL that was me and Willy that hammered them. 1. I didnt make that call to mix the classes and 2. YES I did feel like **** after the race watching the kids go down the stairs having lost to us. I really did feel bad. But I was gunning to beat my buddy Will and got caught up :headknock

HEY! that is another perfect example of how E noob racers should not be racing with Xpert lvl racers. Guilt and frustration on both sides. TY!


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## wily (Oct 14, 2005)

skillett said:


> Me being a father I understand the kid thing ,but that went out the window when a certain e-revo/truggy killed everyones kid in 2wd slash @ the Easter race.Don't you have a heart?


skillett, kids and other folks.... I am sorry. I was driving the e-revo at the Easter race. After the race I felt horrible realizing I just punted those SC trucks. The classes should have never been put together.


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## skillett (Mar 7, 2010)

I just had to get that off my chest,ya'll are both good guys.......:cheers:


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## sunkenmetal (Apr 7, 2010)

I am new to 1/8th scale buggy, and I run an Ebuggy. I have only raced once and that was at the Easter race at Vertigo... 

I don’t really have a problem with running with Nitro buggies. I also don’t have a problem running with the expert ebuggy guys either. 

I was out at vertigo practicing a few Fridays ago and Jason showed up. After watching him run and trying to keep up with him I ran faster times. So I do benefit from being on the track with better drivers. If someone is running faster than I am and I am going to get passed I let them pass.

I have also been practicing my butt off. I try to get to the track two to three times a week. I know that not everyone can do this. But Track time is track time so I don’t really see complaining about who is on the track with you. So being a beginner all I can say is it is better than no track time at all.

So I guess I have no issue with either running with the big boys of ebuggy or running with Nitro Sportsman...


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## Verti goat (Jun 16, 2009)

wily said:


> skillett, kids and other folks.... I am sorry. I was driving the e-revo at the Easter race. After the race I felt horrible realizing I just punted those SC trucks. The classes should have never been put together.


The classes were put together due to them both being limited to less than 4 a piece and some of those not even running with transponders. My options were:

1. Cancel the mains for both 2wd and monster truck and pocket payout money = people upset

2. Combine the classes and pocket payout money = people upset

3. Combine the classes and payout as we said we would = people upset, but we didn't pocket the promised payout money

4. Let both classes run on their own, extend the night to beyond 1am and payout = people upset

As you can see, every outcome leads to people being upset. We made the decision that would allow everyone that was still around for the mains to enjoy themselves in a main race as promised. I know most people understand the reasoning behind combining the classes as it was the most logical of the 3 choices. It's too bad payouts are what bring the big crowds, but complicate things the most.


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## kstoracing (Oct 30, 2008)

Here's how I feel. Then it really doesn't matter.

To mix the class because for some esteem issue, is kind of silly to me. Just getting into anything you'll lose often until you get better. Unless you're really gifted. 

A guy who just bought a E-buggy or Truggy will have to run with people who are better than them. Regardless of which class he's in. It seems like it's could be the fact that the new guy is getting in the way of the experts rather than he cares of where a competitor finishes. I can see experienced drivers getting mad at the other guy for not yielding the right of way, rather than where the other guy finishes.

I really don't see the logic of, I just purchased a buggy nitro or E, and expect to be in the B or A main first few times out. Techinically they aren't on the sportsman level either. 

What we have are Novices being bumped up to the sportsman level. How is that fair to the Novices? To me it seems like someone will get their toes stepped on as always.


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## wily (Oct 14, 2005)

Verti goat said:


> The classes were put together due to them both being limited to less than 4 a piece and some of those not even running with transponders. My options were:
> 
> 1. Cancel the mains for both 2wd and monster truck and pocket payout money = people upset
> 
> ...


No sweet man.....just felt bad for the kiddos.


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## sunkenmetal (Apr 7, 2010)

kstoracing said:


> Here's how I feel. Then it really doesn't matter.
> 
> To mix the class because for some esteem issue, is kind of silly to me. Just getting into anything you'll lose often until you get better. Unless you're really gifted.
> 
> ...


I agree this will be my first HARC race. Do I expect to win no i don't expect to win. Do i want to win yes I do but I am a noob so i know the chances of winning are very very low lol. I have set realistic goals for myself and equipment. I want to finish the race with out breaking anything and have fun. :doowapsta

If i am racing with the expert ebuggies i will do my best to stay out of your way!!!


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## kstoracing (Oct 30, 2008)

I want to finish the race with out breaking anything and have fun. :doowapsta




That is the most important thing said. Everything else is silly. These are toys and we race our toys. None of us are getting paid to run these cars, we pay to run these cars, when it's our turn. 

If you are worried about winning so early in the game, race your previous runs. If you put up more laps or do the same amount in less time. How is that not winning? What main you're placed in shouldn't be a point in the discussion. You paid you're in a main regardless, from A main to Z main.

Hush up and race, mixed or seperated. Have fun enjoy the company and learn from others. Thats the best way to improve your times, IMO.


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## sunkenmetal (Apr 7, 2010)

I want to finish the race with out breaking anything and have fun. :doowapsta[/QUOTE]

That is the most important thig said. Everything else is silly. These are toys and we race our toys. None of us are getting paid to run these cars, we pay to run these cars, when it's our turn.

If you are worried about winning so early in the game, race your previous runs. If you put up more laps or do the same amount in less time. How is that not winning? What main you're placed in shouldn't be a point in the discussion. You paid you're in a main regardless, from A main to Z main.

Hush up and race, mixed or seperated. Have fun enjoy the company and learn from others. Thats the best way to improve your times, IMO.[/QUOTE]

I have printed out my lap times from the easter race. That is my intention to beat my last race. I know that my lap times and number of laps will not be enough for a A main win. But I had a blast at the Easter race and that is my main goal for my first HARC race have fun and maybe make some new friends....

anyway off to the track for some practice!


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## Labrat99 (May 6, 2009)

I can't believe this got started again. :headknock


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## kstoracing (Oct 30, 2008)

I can't believe this got started again. :headknock 



lol.....Exactly....

How about those Lakers.


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## Doc Hepner (Oct 9, 2009)

I agree...I can't believe this got started again! If I have learned anything about racing is to not take it so seriously. Especially after this last weekend after I blew up at Mike's which I do apologize for. If you want my opinion, electric and gas (Sportsman and Expert) should remain separated for obvious reasons. Just as the electric class has finally got enough racers to justify their own class, it will take some time to justify splitting them up into a separate Sportsman and Expert class. Until then, the Expert racers just have to be patient with the Sportsman racers and the Sportsman racers have to realize they are not going to win every race.
I do agree that we need to start/utilize a Novice class. Whether it's a SC or 1/8 Buggy (gas or electric), they run together in one class. Limit the qualifiers to 5 minutes and the mains to 10 minutes. The goal is to give the racer a chance at actual race/track time to improve their skills to move up. This would eliminate a new racer from getting discouraged because they can't keep up with experienced racers and also give the experienced racers a class where they are not constantly dodging a novice racer.
Anyway...That's my 2 cents worth. That and 5 bucks can buy you a cup of coffee at StarBucks.


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## slickrick (Dec 4, 2009)

killerkustoms said:


> Home Skillet if I go electric I want a 30 minute main and I don't have problem with swapping battery to keep going thats why we have nice pit lanes for, not just to start races from.:rybka:


The reason I race electric buggy is not having to have a pit person. The reason I got out of nitro buggy was it was always a pain to find someone to pit for you.

If someone wants a long main, then they should stay with nitro.

I like electric because it is less of a hassle and allows more time for fun..


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## nik77356 (Jun 8, 2007)

We have a novice class and have had one since HARC started. It is a class where new people can race a couple of times to get the feel for it and not be too nervous. 

If we don't have enough 4wd SC's to split the class, and we don't have enough Ebuggies to split the class, then why are we having this discussion? 

When I started racing expert 2 and a half years ago, most people agreed that I probably could have waited another 6 months or more to move up. I wanted to race with the faster guys to get better. I knew I was the slower guy, and I gave people the benefit of the doubt when they came up on me to pass me. I would let them go and just try to follow their line as much as I could. 

I understand the want to win, but it takes practice and persistence.


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## jasonwipf (Feb 23, 2009)

Labrat99 said:


> I can't believe this got started again. :headknock


We are all discussing this rationally there is no bad mouth or intentions so we are all good.

The bottom line question is should novice Electrics be dumped with Expert or allowed to run with sportsman (nitro) and Elec Sportsman also run with their fellow Sportsman.

The point has been brought up at least 3 times so far to just leave Noob E drivers with the Experts and it will make them better drivers; and its hard to knock that idea, its true they will get better faster! Just another reason Electric is better since our "young or sportsman level" will be forced to get better quicker while nitro sportsman get to sandbag in their own class of a lower competitive expectation. I HAD NOT CONSIDERED THAT!


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## nik77356 (Jun 8, 2007)

The split is about 60%-70% sportsman, with the rest being either expert or right in between. So who would be getting the short end of the stick here?


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## jasonwipf (Feb 23, 2009)

Ya you sorta got me thinking there nik. As long as there is no hard feelings about novice racers running with us experts and we expert drivers do more to pull them up to our level faster we would be fostering a much more competitive breed of Electric Buggy racers to bolster our ranks. 

I almost see this as a challenge to pull that % of sportsman elec down from 70% to 15-20% and make them run expert faster. If we could get them up in skill faster with more numbers of "better/expert" drivers in electric vs. Nitro this can be spun to secure our dominance over nitro in the long run. 

And we all know this is doable since electric racers do not have to work on their cars as much and can have more time on the driver's stand.

Courtney: forget my original request. After hearing a few Novice E buggy comments here, lack of any outrage and the view of pulling them up; I can see how this might work for us. I'll tell anyone who doesnt like it to get gas and run in Novice errr sportsman gas. If you want to get good faster stay in electric or convert from nitro sportsman to electric and we will do more to pull you up.


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## Big Phil (Apr 27, 2007)

I've never understood the whole (Sportsman) thing All it does is make the races run longer..If it was my call there would be one 1/8 Novice class with Electric and Nitro mixed with 10min amains. 5 wins and you move up..Want more run time learn fast lines get 5 wins and bump up to expert. It worked when i started racing why not now?


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

Jason.......not a problem......you had a good point to start with.

Eventually, I believe we will get to the level of an E-Buggy Sportsman AND Expert class, but as you know, it's just not there yet. And I have to agree with Nik here......I'd say it's a 70-30% split on what would be sportsman-expert E-buggy, and the expert E-buggy guys (who have put a LOT of time and effort into bolstering the class up....of whome Jason is one of) will be racing with 3-5 guys in their class for a while.......not cool.

I am ALWAYS open to ideas like what Jason has.......I want NO new person to feel like they can't jump right in and get their feet wet. Please never hesitate to bring something up like this if you think it can improver our little club we have going here!

Also, again like Nik said.........Novice class is ALWAYS available if there are 3-4 people. Just because we haven't had people signing up for it lately, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. But please remember that the novice class is limited to racers with 3 races under their belt or less. And it's always up to the race director if he feels like someone in novice is sandbagging.

We good here fellas?


BTW, thank ALL of you for not losing your cool about this subject. I was watching the thread grow all morning and no-one started pointing fingers and hurting feelings....as usually does with a hot-button topic. I'm not a mod on this forum, and never have been, but I always try to promote healthy, PEACEFUL debate.


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## kstoracing (Oct 30, 2008)

Phil works for me, Just have a gas and electric class...cool.

Expert is reserved for those with a chassis sponsor....lol. How many of those do we have locally? lol.

Just curious.


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## nik77356 (Jun 8, 2007)

No, pro is reserved for that. Expert is for the guys that have been racing a long time.


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## kstoracing (Oct 30, 2008)

Nik, yeah I just used the wrong term...lol. Well either way it would work, everyone would be a sportsman in theory. That what happens anyway at the RC Pros..lol.

This should have been brought up a little earlier in the month. The week of the race to voice a concern is a little something to get people excited. 

Like I said earlier, Hush and press the pedal on the right or just squeeze your finger a little.


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## Labrat99 (May 6, 2009)

jasonwipf said:


> We are all discussing this rationally there is no bad mouth or intentions so we are all good.
> 
> The bottom line question is should novice Electrics be dumped with Expert or allowed to run with sportsman (nitro) and Elec Sportsman also run with their fellow Sportsman.
> 
> The point has been brought up at least 3 times so far to just leave Noob E drivers with the Experts and it will make them better drivers; and its hard to knock that idea, its true they will get better faster! Just another reason Electric is better since our "young or sportsman level" will be forced to get better quicker while nitro sportsman get to sandbag in their own class of a lower competitive expectation. I HAD NOT CONSIDERED THAT!


My opinion is that we should leave everything just as it is until next year. If enough guys sign up to make an electric sportsman class that's fine, but don't mix them back up. It causes too many problems.


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## jasonwipf (Feb 23, 2009)

Yep leave it for this year and consider Phils idea for next!


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## JANKEII (Feb 2, 2006)

I don't mind running with the electrics. Only concern I have is when they pit, no body regulates there 3 sec rule.


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## sunkenmetal (Apr 7, 2010)

I am a noob and I just want to race. Just tell me when and where!:rotfl:


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## B4Maz (Aug 9, 2009)

Labrat99 said:


> My opinion is that we should leave everything just as it is until next year. If enough guys sign up to make an electric sportsman class that's fine, but don't mix them back up. It causes too many problems.


+1

I think the real reason this is being brought up is some electric expert drivers dont want to deal with the sportsman in the group. Personally I dont mind combining sportsman/expert for electric buggy.


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## Big Phil (Apr 27, 2007)

B4Maz said:


> +1
> 
> I think the real reason this is being brought up is some electric expert drivers dont want to deal with the sportsman in the group. Personally I dont mind combining sportsman/expert for electric buggy.


If someone new to the hobby want's to run with guys his speed he has to run nitro. That's kinda dumb That's also a double standard. A novice is a novice no matter what powers his 1/8 buggy. I don't think it should be changed now but it needs to be fixed next season. I really don't think we need 2 novice 1/8 classes i say mix'em. It doesn't bother me running with novice drivers but if electric noobs have to run with expert nitro should have to do the same.


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## kstoracing (Oct 30, 2008)

We are beating a dead horse here. 

The issue wasn't weather we should mix the Electric Novice with the Nitro Novice. It was for the newer Electric Racers be combined with the Nitro Sportsman classes. Which would still be unfair, IMO. To the newer racers still. 

If there was a Novice class of course what powers your vehicle wouldn't matter. Run them together, Period. Without there being one the option was to throw them in another division, where the same thing would happen. 

Putting them into the sportsman nitro class, so they would not slow down the other racers, or so they can "feel" more of an accomplishment was proposed. I don't think that would be the solution to the propsed issue. What would happen? Next season they go back to the E-B Class? What about the truggies do we leave them alone? Same situation could occur there as well.

Moving a racer from Sportsman to Expert after 2 seasons makes sense. That way the classes could be equaled in numbers. But it would be on the honor system, IDK. A lot of us need to make the move up it seems but, are dragging our feet on the move. I may do so myself next season and my times are no where near the slowest expert. 

Either way it will not be solved a week before the race. Maybe we can work something out for the RRT, maybe next season. Seems as if we are turing CV into Roger Goodell with all the rule changes. We can't change a rule in the middle of the season.

Let's just have fun. Race, Drink and be Merry.


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## Big Phil (Apr 27, 2007)

Big Phil said:


> If someone new to the hobby want's to run with guys his speed he has to run nitro. That's kinda dumb That's also a double standard. A novice is a novice no matter what powers his 1/8 buggy. I don't think it should be changed now but it needs to be fixed next season. I really don't think we need 2 novice 1/8 classes i say mix'em. It doesn't bother me running with novice drivers but if electric noobs have to run with expert nitro should have to do the same.





kstoracing said:


> We are beating a dead horse here.
> 
> The issue wasn't weather we should mix the Electric Novice with the Nitro Novice. It was for the newer Electric Racers be combined with the Nitro Sportsman classes. Which would still be unfair, IMO. To the newer racers still.
> 
> ...


Ummm i didn't say fix it now.. It should be ironed out for next year thats all.


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## kstoracing (Oct 30, 2008)

Phil, I wasn't coming at you, We are simply saying the samething, or I was just seconding what you said.

Like you said something will be worked out. That or everyone just needs to relax a little. Taking thins too seriously out here.
\


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

kstoracing said:


> We are beating a dead horse here.


Karl.....you're keeping the thread alive!


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## killerkustoms (Nov 6, 2008)

Courtney Vaughan said:


> Karl.....you're keeping the thread alive!


+10000000

and I don't even care


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## rex cars (Jul 8, 2007)

combine the classes, but nitro cars have to run foam tires and electrics can only use 27 turn brushed motors and 2s hardcase lipo

Or...
table the issue until the post season meeting.


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