# BAR 30-06 question



## rbt2 (May 3, 2006)

the long and short of it: my b-i-l (who lives in florida) reloaded some 165 gr accubond bullets for me. he did not seat the bullets deep enough in the case, hence, they are not feeding very well in the magazine. i've got a buddy who reloads and is going to re-seat the bullets for me. the rifle is sighted in with the rounds that were reloaded for me by my b-i-l.

the b-i-l said that the reason he seated the bullet so high is so that it would be in contact with the rifling (sp?) as soon as it was chambered (for what this info is worth)

my quesiton is this: will the rifle need to be sighted in again with the bullets being seated deeper in the case or will there not be enough of a difference to worry about?

thanks for y'all help!!!


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## Bantam1 (Jun 26, 2007)

I would double check the zero. OAL can affect the POI.


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## Texas T (May 21, 2004)

rbt2 said:


> the b-i-l said that the reason he seated the bullet so high is so that it would be in contact with the rifling (sp?) as soon as it was chambered (for what this info is worth)


 Most rifles do not like the bullet touching the lands. Here is an excerpt from the Sierra reloading manual explaining the considerations.


> Seating depth for a particular cartridge is determined by a number of fac- tors. In the reloading data section, you will find the seating depth we used for a given bullet in the cartridge in question. Please understand that in most instances this length is only a guide, and that your seating depth may be different. This is especially true if you are loading for maximum accuracy, and need to adjust the seating depth to match the throat of your particular rifle. This is fine, but bear in mind that deeper seating reduces the capacity of the case, which in turn raises pressures. Going the other way, seating a bullet out to the point that it actually jams into the rifling will also raise pressures. If you vary the seating depth from the length listed in the manu- al, the charge weights will need to be adjusted accordingly.


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## pg542 (Oct 9, 2006)

Are you sure it is the seating depth that is causing feeding problems? Are they too long for the mag or are they not allowing the bolt to close? If these are reloads for a semi-auto(you stated BAR), then it's best that they are full length resized after each firing. Some larger cases can give you trouble when reloading for a semi....Texas T is spot on about the pressure increases when seating too long or too short. If it were me, I might tinker with the depth a little, but I would NEVER seat a bullet where it touches the lands on bolt closure, especially a semi-auto. ....but thats just me. Some guys swear by it, but I've never heard even the high heat powerloaders do it to a semi-auto. I would think at the very least the pressure rise would be hard on the gas powered action of that gun. I'd have your friend seat them to about .010-.015 off the lands and see how they shoot... ...just some thoughts, be careful,,,Jim


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

all of the above and yes when you get the bullets right by all means re sight your gun. Its going to change.

Charlie


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## rbt2 (May 3, 2006)

i really do appreciate all the help y'all've been!!!! it is for sure the seating depth of the bullet that's causing the feeding problem. the ballistic tip of the bullets are rubbing on the end of the magazine, causing the magazine to not "pop up" the next round. i'm gonna have my friend seat the bullet just deep enough to clear the end of the magazine. i've also loaded some of my old ammo (winchester 180 gr silver tips) and cycled them w/o any problem. comparing the 180 gr silver tips and the 165 gr accubonds, the accubonds are consideribly higher seated (if that even makes sense...).


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## swglenn (Sep 20, 2009)

Another thing to be concerned with is powder compression. Not knowing what powder the bil used you don't know if the powder has filled the case. Compressing a powder "can" be bad because it raises the barrel pressure and can put you into hard bolt opening or in a semi-auto it can cycle the bolt too hard leading to reliability issues. Some competition shooters do this trying for extra fps in velocity to get to a higher accuracy node but this is usually with bolt guns. They have also gone too far and had to beat the bolt open with a hammer.

Some rifles do shoot better with the bullets jammed 10-20 thousandths of an inch into the lands. These are usually the competition VLD's like Berger makes. The downside for a hunter rifle is if you need to remove the round it can pull the bullet from the case and fill the action with gunpowder and leave the bullet in the barrel. A barrel obstruction is not what you want!


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## Redfishr (Jul 26, 2004)

Measure a factory round and make them the same as the fatory ammo, since you arent measuring the chamber....


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## THE JAMMER (Aug 1, 2005)

All good stuff here so far, but one thing that has not been mentioned is maybe needing to use small base dies for that semi auto. Some guns are very particular about that, and some aren't. 

It definitely sounds like your problem is the oal, and you will definitely have to resight the gun after changing that. If you continue to have chambering problems after doing that, it could very well be not having used small base dies.

THE JAMMER


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## specktout (Aug 21, 2006)

I have a question for you. Did he actually measure the O.A.L for that bullet in your gun? Each gun will have a different O.AL. for different bullets, they should be measured using a Stoney Point or Hornady OAL guage, and should be measured to the ogive of the particular bullet your using. The lands and grooves are at a slightly different depth on the same cal. in different guns. You could be shooting a bullet thats well off the lands or possibly into the lands with the bolt closed. I think I got off your question, so I would just seat the rounds just deep enough to clear your magazine and see how they shoot.


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## rbt2 (May 3, 2006)

that is pretty much exactly what we're gonna do. re-seat the bullets so that they just clear the magazine. hopefully doing it that way, it won't be too much of an "issue" to re-sight in the rifle.

i know that there is not a 100% answer to this question, but i thought i'd ask anyway: re-seating the bullets, just enough to clear the magazine, how much do y'all think it'll throw off the p.o.i.? right now, at 100 yds, i'm getting 3/8" groups with a 3/4" "flyer" every so often (i think that's pretty good with a BAR, but i could be wrong).

btw - the recipe for the round is this: 165 gr accubond, and 56.5 gr of imr 4350.

i really do appreciate all of y'alls help with this. i've always been a "buy it off the shelf" kind of guy, but the b-i-l has been on my kiester for nearly 10 yrs to get into reloading and so far, i'm not really impressed with what i'm going through right now with the BAR. although they spent a lot of time with the rifle and worked up this load for it, and it is shooting pretty well, all things considered.

rbt2


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## Texas T (May 21, 2004)

Didn't look it up in the Nosler book but the *MAX *load in the Sierra book for a 165 grain bullet is 56.0 grains of IMR 4350. If it was me I would pull the bullets and reload with a little less powder. Semi autos prefer slower burning powders and don't usually like hot loads at all.


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## Bantam1 (Jun 26, 2007)

Did he work up the load using your rifle or another BAR? If they used your rifle then maybe they loaded them to be single shot loads and not to be fed from the magazine.


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## rbt2 (May 3, 2006)

just got off the phone with the b-i-l. he said that he cycled the shells through the magazine of my BAR and didn't have any problems. the only thing we could come up with is that when all of this took place, the middle of august in florida, is metal expansion/contraction (of the magazine). he said that he measured the chamber and that the bullet is right up to the lands/grooves. also he said that he loaded the shells at 98% (whatever the heck that means) and that there was no sign of over-pressuring (or at least that's what i think was the word he used - please forgive me, i don't know all of the reloading "jargon"... and he's been doing it for something like 20 yrs).

anyway, my buddy and i are gonna re-seat the bullets about a .001 of an inch lower and see where that gets us. i want the bullet to just clear the magazine.

thanks for all y'alls help and suggestions/questions. please keep 'em coming.

rbt2


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## Texas T (May 21, 2004)

rbt2 said:


> just got off the phone with the b-i-l. he said that he cycled the shells through the magazine of my BAR and didn't have any problems. the only thing we could come up with is that when all of this took place, the middle of august in florida, *is metal expansion/contraction* (would be less then you could measure with a micrometer)(of the magazine). he said that he measured the chamber and that the bullet is *right up to the lands/grooves*. Very undesirable)also he said that he *loaded the shells at 98%* (load of powder in case-means it is very close to a compression load or may be a slight compression load)(whatever the heck that means) and that there was no *sign of over-pressuring* (from what he has told you so far does he even know what the signs are)(or at least that's what i think was the word he used - please forgive me, i don't know all of the reloading "jargon"... and he's been doing it for something like 20 yrs).Doesn't mean he understands safe reloading, just been lucky)
> 
> anyway, my buddy and i are gonna *re-seat the bullets about a .001 of an inch lower* (In light of the load over then recommended load from a reputable bullet manufacturer and the 98% load factor you are likely going to have an excessive pressure in your chamber. Like russian roulette you may get away with out your gun exploding or maybe not)and see where that gets us. i want the bullet to just clear the magazine.
> 
> ...


I have raised as many red flags as I can so take it or leave it. The decision is yours.


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## Too Tall (May 21, 2004)

rbt2 said:


> btw - the recipe for the round is this: 165 gr accubond, and 56.5 gr of imr 4350.


My Nosler #4 shows 57grs IMR 4350 to be max load with 3.340" OAL.

And this is from their website: http://www.nosler.com/index.php?p=15&b=30cal&s=136

BTW These are bolt actions.


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