# I need advice on starting to reload please.



## Matteo (Feb 22, 2006)

I am thinking of starting to reload .308 ammo and could use some wisdom of the been there and done that.

I don't know a thing about reloading rifle ammo but I have grown up reloading shotgun shells.

What equipment would you recommend?

How much of an initial investment will it be?

How much $ does it save to reload percentage wise?

How much ammo will I reload before it pays for the equipment?

What are soem good .308 loads you would recommend?

All guidance is appreciated.:cheers:


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## Coniption (Aug 23, 2005)

Taggin along with this post. I'm wanting to start myself. I've looked at Dillion, Lee, RCBS, and Hornday reloaders. A friend has a Dillion progressive reloader that we did some 300 win mag on and was really nice. I haven't used any other equipment to compare it to. I really don't know all the pros and cons of progressive versus the other kind, but I really like the progressive one pull one bullet once it is loaded up.


C


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## Africanut (Jan 15, 2008)

In my humble opinion- spend an extra 70 dollars or so and buy a Forster co-axial press, there is no better bang for the buck in the single stage line--it is way ahead of the curve, next get a rcbs prep center (110v) that thing will actually make reloading a pleasure. Those are two items that I wished I had bought 20 years ago instead of 5. Harrell powder measures are prob the best if you can spring for them.


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## coogerpop (Sep 3, 2009)

It all depends on how much you want to spend.I've been reloading since .....well for almost 50 years,started with a Herters single stage press and herters dies and powder measure and a Lyman reloading manual....the manual was and is the most important thing you can have .It gives you all the data that you will need to prepare the case for reloading and then to load safely...loading is experimentation...try and find the most accurate loads for YOUR rifle...every one is a little different. If I ever really improve my setup ,I will add a Lyman or RCBS combination electronic scale and powder measure....that would really speed up the process...I now weigh every load...and always have.Press,dies,scale,case trimmer,micrometer length gauge,case lube,neck lube,Reloading Manual,powders and bullets..... and time to do it right...
I'm not sure you ever save any money because you will shoot a lot more...which is a good thing ...you will save about 50% on each box compared to what factory premium ammo costs..and be able to say that you did it...


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## Bantam1 (Jun 26, 2007)

I started reloading .308 late last year. I went with a RCBS press and Redding dies. I use a RCBS 10-10 scale and a powder trickle to measure powder. I bought the RCBS case trimmer and use a 3 way trimming head to save some time. I also bought a cronograph to help with my load development. I shot good factory loads across it and then tried to duplicate or slightly improve on those loads to start. 

There are lots of options when it comes to reloading. You will see competition die sets which I ended up going to. They are worth the extra money to size the neck and for seating the bullet in my opinion. I am punching paper mostly. My rifle is just a hair too heavy to hunt with but I do use it for coyote stands out here in So-Cal. 

Get a good reloading manual and look at the "recommended" loads or starting loads. Work your way up slowly to make sure the loads are safe. Also pick up something to measure the chamber length in your rifle. I believe Hornady now offers the tool. It used to be a Sinclair made tool in the past. If you are loading from a magazine then you will need to determine the max cartridge length your magazine will accept. Most of the time will be about 2.830" or less. 

Good powders for .308 are Varget, Reloader 15, IMR 4895 and VitaVhouri (Sp?) N-140. My favorites for 165+ grain bullets has been RE 15 and Varget. For 155 gr and lighter loads it has been Varget and IMR 4895. Powder ranges in my rifle have varied from 43.8-46.6 grains. I use Federal 210M, Winchester Large Rifle and CCI BR2 primers. These have given me the best results with my 3 loads I shoot.


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## seattleman1969 (Jul 17, 2008)

All good advice above although i have never tried the Forster press, I use a Rock Chucker and love it. 

First question I have though is this... what is your goal for reloading? cheaper shooting? accuracy? And what is your intended target, game, targets, etc?

Answer those an I can give you some advice from my experience of about 20 years of reloading....


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## Matteo (Feb 22, 2006)

I think I want it all.

cheaper, accuracy, etc.

I will be shooting at whatever animal I can get out to hunt but that will likely be whitetail, Axis and Hogs.

I like DIY and rember reloading shoatshells to go hunt with as I was growing up but we did not change up load set up, my father always did that.

Thanks all for the great advice.


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## Bantam1 (Jun 26, 2007)

The initial cost of reloading is not any cheaper than buying new rounds. As time moves on the cost will drop. The brass is good for several loads depending on how you size the brass. If you are shooting a semi auto then you have to full size the brass which will lower the amount of times you can load the same case. I think I figured out that my precision loads using Sierra Match King bullets is about $0.40-1.00 each depending on brass and powder charge. The same load in a Federal Match for example is about $2 each these days. 

You can certainly make some accurate loads but be prepared to spend some time and money to get there. I have about 1100 rounds down the pipe on my .308 and I bought it in September of last year. Most of that has been testing loads at the range. Have fun and be safe!


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## Ernest (May 21, 2004)

Its addictive. Seriously addictive. 

I load on a single stage. .308 is a nice one to reload for a bolt gun because, perhaps unlike say an AR-15, one is typically not going thru 150 rounds per range trip or shooting session. 

I don't like the Sinclaire/Hornady tools as much as the RCBS precision mics, but thats just me. 

Redding makes good dies, as do a bunch of other folks. I would start with a decent two die set, and then, if you like it, add a nice neck sizer and precision seating die. 

In .308, I'm shooting Varget, 748, R-15, 4064, and a couple others. Bunch of these powders have very similar burn rates, so depending on the bullet weight and likes of your gun, similar results can be achieved with a range of powders. Forget about the idea that there is a "magic" combo that is ideal across the board in most all weapons. 

For example, Jammer's 1x9 twist 20 barrel AR-15 likes 24 grains of N135 and Nosler 55 grain BT's. My 1x9 20 inch barrel AR-15 hates that load, but will shoot lights out if the charge is bumped to 24.6 of N135. So, you gotta work these loads up yourself. Internet or reloading books of "best" receipes are for information only. Just to give you an idea. They may or may not work for you.


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## Matteo (Feb 22, 2006)

OK good info.

Do any of you that load .308 live near the Katy area?

I would like to maybe meet you at the range and buy some of your loads from you to shoot through my Savage 12.

If one of your loads that I buy from you works well then I can significantly shorten the experimentation period.

Then I could buy the same reload set up as you have and load the same loads.


Would that make sense?

Thanks all
:cheers:


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## seattleman1969 (Jul 17, 2008)

Get some good manuals for the bullets and powders you select. Make sure you get at a minimum above any reloading "kit" you may purchase, an OAL guage, a micrometer, and a bullet seating depth gauge (Something like the RCBS Precision Mic for the caliber of your choice will fill a couple of these roles). besides case prep those tools are the most invaluable for increasing any given rifle's accuracy with a given load.

Case prep, at a minimum you want to cut to length, chamfer in and outside the case neck, and clean and deburr the primer pocket and flash hole. For accuracy, turning the case necks is a must as is weighing, individually, each and every bullet and case to ensure they are as near to perfectly uniform as possible. A digital powder measure with dispenser is also a must as well as doublechecking your charges with a second scale.

Seems tedious but uniformity equals accuracy..... do the exact same thing each and every time in the same way (IE: turning the handle on the case turning tool X amount of times for each case) and you will see consistent results!

I do most of these things even with my hunting loads and enjoy great success once I find that one magic load for the rifle....

It's all about experimenting, patience, consistency, and as earnest said, it gets to be VERY addictive!

More great info on case prep for accurate shooting: http://varmintal.com/arelo.htm


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## seattleman1969 (Jul 17, 2008)

Excellent review of the RCBS precision Mic and it's use: http://www.centerfirecentral.com/productreviews/precisionmic.htm


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## Texas T (May 21, 2004)

Matteo check your PM's


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## Jamesrusty (Nov 23, 2009)

I shoot a R-25 Remington in 308 & I use varget power. Get a good reloading manual and read it from cover to cover.
I use a RCBS Rock Chucker & RCBS small base dies.
Just be safe


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## cabosandinh (Jun 7, 2007)

get an RCBS single stage press
Redding high end .308 dies
Redding .308 neck sizer
deburr flash holes
trim all cases to uniform size
Sierra 168 gr BTMHP
IMR-4064 : work this powder up for your rifle
OAL should be about 5-10/10000 in. off your land and groove
float your barrels
clean after every 15 shots (brush, wet, dry )

that should get you 80% close, the other 20% has to do
with your breath and trigger finger control and how consistent
you are with your bags and butt rest .... practice and
experience 

I shoot consistent 1/8" @ 100yd with the above on:

Winchester 70 Stealth/ Rem 700VS, ZEISS 6.5-20x MilDot;
Keplinger, floated barrel


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## B-Money (May 2, 2005)

I've been happy with the Lee products. They are 1/2 to 1/3 the price of RCBS. 

Your powder scale and calipers are your safety net on the bench. A chronograph adds a lot of usefull information about load performance and consistancy.

Ditto on the "read your books." Also, pull down load data from the Powder manufacturer's web sites and take lots of notes as you build and test your loads.

Have fun and post up your discoveries.


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## mchildress (Jul 11, 2009)

I have been real happy with RCBS. I did up grade to a RCBS Rockchunker press about 30 yrs ago. I use a Foster trimmer and Thumler's Tumbler I just ordered new belts for last night. They have kits that will give you the basics press,powder measure,scale and misc tools needed.


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## Screeminreel (Jun 2, 2004)

Lots of good info posted already. A couple of things I might toss in are don't get caught up on one brand being the best for everything. That said, I use Hornady dies for some calibers, Lee for others, RCBS, Redding, and Forster still for others. I even still have a couple of sets of Herters which I use for individual rifles as I have found they produce the best accuracy for them. I have Herters, RCBS, and Lee presses, Lyman, RCBE, Forster, and Wilson Trimmers, so you can see I am not overly brand specific. I have some rifles which need or use specific tools to get the job done I need done that some equipment simply will not do for me. 

On presses, most of the newer single stage brand name lines are built well enough that an average reloader will not wear one out in years of cranking out loads with a little maintenance. Most of the issues I have found are from the primer debris getting in and around the stem and gradually allowing it to wear. With a little care and clean up this can all but be eliminated. The progressives are nice, some nicer than others. If your looking for bulk production for one or two calibers they are even better but the downside is that some are more suited to handgun and smaller rifle cases than to long length rifle cases. I can only suggest that you choose a press that will handle the biggest case length you ever thing you might load. You might end up with a tad longer stroke with some calibers but it sure makes it a lot easier to seat a bullet on a big case when you don't have to put it in the die before you insert the case into the shell holder. 

Trimmers, well that would also be a personal use item. IF your working bulk then one of the auto trimmers might be your style, if not loading more than 100 at a time most of the hand turned ones are wonderful and all will provide years of use with common care. The RCBS Auto Trim I use has the advantage of the three way trimmers which get the length the inside and outside chamfer all at one time. If you ever get where your loading bulk of the same load or even processing bulk cases like 3-500 this is where it really shines. Just wished I could get them in handgun calibers. The only downside i have found with any of them is set up time and in the grand scheme of things it is really not much to even consider. I have marked my shafts to length so I know where to set it close and then only need to fine tune it from there. 

Scales and measures, the scale is a necessary tool regardless of how your loading. You have to know the weight of the charge. There are a lot of good ones, some even better ones, and some which I would personally not own. Most of the middle to higher priced ones you get what you pay for. Again this will depend on your intended loading. I like to have one that the pan is easily accessed from the side or end of the scale, and that have a check weight with them and are adjustable for level and calibration. Some have both some only have one of these features. On the measures, these are real handy when loading the same charge in bulk cases. Using a short cut, ball, and some flake powders they are almost indispensable. Fill them up with the powder of your choice, put a mark around 1/4 from the bottom og the tube as a fill line and with each checked pull you get within a tolerance of =/_ 02 grs from most of them, which is in most case close enough for almost any shooting. Some might be more accurate with one type powder or another but they will all throw good loads is your consistent with your routine. I have used the RCBS Uniflow for years and in fact have 5 of them for different types of loads. Most times I pre-weigh my charges and record the start and top load number of turns from the stems. Then I head to the range and work up load turning the stem out in 1/4 turns or less depending on the powder being used. Once I hit what I want I record the number of turns and weigh it back at the house. Test out the load a few more times, maybe tweak it a little and when done, I set the scale on the numbers recorded, check them for consistency on my beam scale and get to it. I have found that when the powder level gets down to around the 1/4 full area that the charges with some powders start to vary due to the weight in the hopper. Some are not effected as much as others. Either way, I can load many rounds quicker by simply weighing one every now and again than by weighing out every single one. Some loads I do weigh out every one but these are only shot in a couple of rifles which do have the accuracy to utilize it. 

Mics and Calipers, can't do with out a set of calipers no matter what. I have several paris of calipers and use them for a multitude of things. I find I really like the digital ones and even the 20 or so dollar set from Midway is close enough for 90% of my uses. I do also have a set of Starrett's which will get into the nitty gritty when needed. The mics I have but rarely use except on rare occasions. 

Lubes, best I have found is Imperial. It will handle everything you need to do with a case and last seemingly forever. 

Tumbler, pick a size depending on how much you plan to do at one time. If loading rifle cases pick the one that will handle the most of them, and then the handgun cases will be covered. 
Most all of them do the same thing, vibrate the cases around and around till they are clean. Some use them some don't, I use two of them religiously, one with walnut for heavy dirty cases, and the other with cob for the shiny final cleaning. Might not be necessary, but I have ruined at least a couple of sets of dies due to trash being scrubbed into the polished areas and scratching them up. Besides I like that new brass look on my loads. 

Manuals, last but probably the most important part of the whole process. Most are from the bullet and powder companies, and show a short selection of powders that they tested with their components. They will show different charges of the same powders, than the next company with the same bullet weights. Sometimes they even show completely different powders. This is due to their testing being with different lots of components at different conditions using different barrels. Best you can hope for is an average of a couple to narrow down your specific powder. The powder companies are similar as they use only their powders but might use several different bullets of different makes. Then there are folks like Lyman who test out both powders and bullets in the most commonly used weights and calibers. Combine data from two or more of them and you start to see some loads showing more promise than others. Not to mention the wealth of information aside the loading data combined in them all.

There are a lot of good deals to be had other than new also. You just have to know what your wanting, what the prices would be if new, and inspect it if possible before the purchase. Yard and moving sales, and Estate sales, can be awesome places to pick up both equipment and components for use or trade. Also watching some of the classifieds here and other places can get you a deal or two as well. 

Good lcuk with your endeaver, once you get started your going to find it as addicting as anything else out there. There is just no way to get around the tweaking of loads for your own personal uses. If this one is good, then this other one might be better, or this one or that one. 

Hope this helps,


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Matteo

I thkink screeminreel covered it all..

Charlie


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## Matteo (Feb 22, 2006)

WoW!
gOOD INFO!

There may be some good deals out there but as you put it you must know what you are looking for. I don't.

Thats why this info is very good for me.
Thanks.


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## Screeminreel (Jun 2, 2004)

What I meant about the "good deals" is this,

Your looking at equipment, varied makes, and prices. Say for instance the press you like is running around $130, then you see one posted somewhere or run across it in a pawn shop or garage sale for anywhere from 25 - 75 bucks. The one you find is is used but good shape. Which one should you buy? Well take it from me, the shipping on a good cast press isn't cheap, and can kill any sort of deal you might have gotten unless you can pick it up in person. Most presses, unless they are dropped or severely abused, will hold up to many years of loading. If they look good, and show no signs of being dropped or broken, everything works as it should, then if they are half or less of the original cost I would jump on it. 

Same with most other equipment. E-bay I know isn't what it used to be. It is however still a place that powder measures and small items like that can be gotten even with shipping for a good price. For the RCBS Uniflow, with both large and small drums, I have gotten them for around 40 - 50 bucks including shipping. Now I had to bid on several to win at that price, but hey, compared to new prices, it was worth the saved bucks. You can pull up several items at a time to watch the bidding on, then pick one that hits right, also watch the buy now listings as well. Be sure to pay attention on the shipping cost though.

Most any of the name brand presses will likely last you a lifetime with general care and maintenance. Picking one out for loading one caliber is easy, simply pick one capable of loading the biggest case length you feel you will ever load. Some are wider than others. IF your not ever going to load for one of the Ultra Mags, then any will work fine for 99% of most loading. Some might be a bit heavier duty and better suited for swedging primer pockets or forming cases where you need a LOT of applied pressure, but if this isn't something you feel you might not do then pick out one in your price range and get on with it. Dies from Lee to the highest dollar Competition will all load ammo that shoots tighter than you can hold the rifle. I have and use something in every flavor. I guarantee that in a factory rifle or even most custom hunting rifles the higher dollar dies are a waste of money. There are a limited number of shooters out there who can take advantage of what the higher dollar dies have to offer and even with that they are hauling those particular rifles to the deer woods. 

It might be overwhelming but I guarantee that once you start loading using most any brand equipment, your going to learn that there is no magic equipment that will produce the smallest groups from your particular rifle. This is what comes from dumping powder and seating bullets. The right combination of powder, primer, and projectile, will make or break a load in a heart beat. Having excellent equipment is nice, and we would all like to fly first class too, but coach is more along the lines of most folks budget.


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## J L Dunn (Sep 16, 2005)

You did not say how much reloading of the 308 you would be doing...my guess would be not much compared to what a Dillon is capable of doing for you.

Batch reloading is what you will probably be doing...loading perhaps no more that 200 at any one time.

My comments relate to safety...the most important item in reloading (and many other activities as well). 
1. After seating your primers, examine the cases to be sure they are flush with the base of the cartridge i.e., they should not protrude. Also, minimize your handling primers with your fingers as they can pick up the oil in your skin and will fail to ignite the powder when you pull the trigger on that B & C 14pt that would score in the 200's ... (Please don't ask me how I know this).
2. After charging your cases with powder and putting them in your cartridge tray, take them outside in the sunlight (this is the way I do it) and examine the elevation of the powder in the cartridge case...if you have inadvertenly double charged a case or did not charge a case your observation will pick this up. Double charging a rifle cartridge (or any cartridge) is bad news..BAD NEWS...REALY BAD NEWS!

JLD


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## pg542 (Oct 9, 2006)

Keep everything neat and organized on your loading bench. Have ONLY the bullet and powder you are presently using out on the bench. All others should be put away. Same goes with any other cases or primers. Have only the components you need out at any given time. Be systematic in your approach to loading. This isn't like a cluttered work bench. A cluttered loading bench could lead to mistakes...and worse. Develope a method and order that works for you. Leave the TV, cellphone, mp3, kids, cold beer and any other distraction in another room. You should give this your UNDIVIDED attention. I'm not gonna tell you which powder /bullet combo to use, simply because what works for me, might not work for you. When working up a load, keep detailed records of what you have tweeked to try to make it better. Don't try too many changes at once. Many times, a lot of improvement can gained by the smallest of adjustments. (seating depth, powder charge etc.) There is no single magic powder or bullet that will make your rifle a tackdriver. More often than not, it will be the combination of several things that give you a good shooter, bench or hunting load. Experiment a lot. It's fun! But always keep an eye towards safety. A good, current loading manual is your friend. Never start with maximum loads listed. Always use a load that is LISTED. Meaning: Don't use load for 150gr. Hornady thinking that it is safe for a 150gr. Barnes. It might be okay,,,,,but it might not be, also,,,,,Good luck and be safe.


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## CoastalOutfitters (Aug 20, 2004)

very good advice, be very methodical and don't get distracted........think assembly line.........and you will be fine


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