# Speckled Trout and Suspending Baits - Braid vs Mono



## troutsupport (May 22, 2006)

A friend of mine just asked me a question about the different action required to catch a speckled trout on suspending baits on braid vs mono. I thought it was a great opportunity to look at this in depth and bring out some opinions of others on the topic.

Lets look at some of the differences in the lines. Monofilament is stretchy and braid has no stretch. Mono typically will have a memory (a curl caused by being wrapped around a spool); braid has no memory. Monofilament, with a specific gravity of close to 1.17, slightly more dense than water, typically sinks, but very, very slowly. Braid's specific gravity is less than water at .97 and will typically float anyway since it is porous and on each cast the water is slung out of the lines spaces and voids.

His specific question was ...having two equal set ups except for one having 30lb braid and the other having 12lb mono, how would one work the rod or change the rhythm of the action so that the suspending lure was worked with the same action,depth, timing and rhythm of the other?

So here is my 2 cents worth; ya'll chime in and see if we get some consensus.

My general opinion is that it will be mostly situational depending on lure and depth. With a Fat Boy or Maniac 'walked' shallow just under or on the surface I don't think there will be much difference at all since the lure will be worked fast enough to keep slack and curl out of the mono... it may require a slightly more gentle twitch with the braid rod since braid doesn't stretch at all...but no real difference with this technique because of the speed and shallow depth.

I see the real difference with fishing deeper ...say 4 feet and deeper areas under a weaker bite caused by weak tide, high pressure, etc. etc. In these situations i'd use the smaller corky or devil ,or really slow it down with the sinking maniac. It's cool the maniac has that cross over ability. So, on a long cast with the mono each lure will slowly sink ...but if one tries to take up slack, the memory (curl in line) will actually slowly pull the lure through the water... here's another place where the flat face of the maniac mullet comes in handy as the resistance of the lure helps feel the lure as well. Anyway, in my opinion, the mono setup should cause a more subdued presentation with the suspending lure. Ie... given the same force imparted on the twitch the mono set up suspending lure will be less jerky and due to the curls in the line it will also be more consistently in the same part of the water column. The braid lure could be a little higher in the water column and more erratic.

With the braid in this scenario it seems that it takes it a little longer to get to depth and i have to give a more relaxed twitch and work it slower..perhaps even wait a little longer between twitches... this is only a minute subtle difference but may make a difference catching cold sluggish fish. Also, on calm mornings the 'pop' of braid during a twitch may be a little too 'out of the ordinary' and cause a wary old trout to become suspicious... but probably only during calm conditions.

I think an angler has to choose one line and get confident with what ever that set up is... it may take changing up your rhythem of twitch, timing the depth and rate of pull to work them exactly the same... So if a buddy that you're fishing with has a different set up than you and you're casting side by side ...and he's flat out putting it on you ;-) don't be afraid to change it up to draw the strike from your set up... first try working it exactly as they do, then work it slightly faster or slower...but be confident with what you're doing. And another thing...if you're not sure if its a fish or not...set the hook. Does anyone remember back in the 70's Doug Hannon did a short underwater film where a 7lb large mouth 'mouthed' a crankbait without the angler even noticing... many a winter trout may be overlooked if you are waiting to feel that decisive 'thump' ... you may miss a lot more...some of which probably weren't even fish...but i think you'll capitalize on the ones that you never felt bump it.

Gaining more confidence.. use a suspending lure more often...even when you'd rather catch a fish on top or with plastic...if you use the suspending lures more often and work it different ways, rhythms, and depths you'll quickly become more confident with your set up whether it's braid or mono.

In the end...if there is a difference it's very subtle and only slight but worthy of taking a look. Set the hook more often when in doubt and change it up a little.

So, any thoughts from those that have used both and decided to use one over the other?

For those that want to learn more about how to work each lure and the conditions under which one might use one lure over the other...check out the TroutSupport.com DVD 'Finding & Catching Big Speckled Trout". All of our dvd's come with a money back guarantee and free 1st class shipping.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Nov 4, 2011)

Braid all the way, i tried 12# mono again on one of my reels and was so spoiled my the superior properties of braid that i set that rod in the holder for the rest of the trip and respooled it with braid the next day. 
As far as people claiming braid causes fish to be lost, I agree to an extent that with too much drag pressure you will lose many of the big trout you hook due to torn out hooks. This is an easy fix! Loosen the drag, don't horse the fish and they will stay on unless they headshake and sling the hooks loose with the weight of a lure and you give the fish an opportunity by allowing slack in the line. Always keep pressure and try to keep the rod tip low so the fish will keep lower in the water. The number of super light strikes you miss with mono is definitely not an easy fix, I would rather use braid with a lighter drag and be able to feel every tick of my lure kissing the shell or bottom and hook that light biting fish and also to know my lure is getting deep enough when those fish are laying on the bottom. 
For the sink rate of mono vs floating of braid, this too is easily remedied. Just use what most braid guys use and tie on a six foot mono leader on the braid so the floatation of the braid has no effect on the lures depth and you get that extra bit of shock absorption most braid alone can't offer. Why six feet? Because any more than that any you have a transition knot going through your level wind on the reel and one more friction point to pass through. Any less and you may have problems getting a lure deeper because of the floatation of the braid and when you change lures a couple of times the leader gets too short. I know a few guys use braid tied directly to the lure (brent juarez for one) but this is just personal preference.

http://www.fishingscout.com/anglers/SmackDaddy


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## grindthegrind (Jan 28, 2013)

I think you're looking way too much into this Tobin. I know a lot of top guys who tie directly on with braid unless you're fishing like a super clear day in LLM those fish will not be line shy. Plenty of 9s and 10s caught tied directly to the braid in clear water which is what two of the top guides in the upper coast do - so I do it. I used to use a leader but 30 or 40 lb. braid is better for the winter because you're constantly dragging over shell with an $8+ corky. Not really willing to lose those. Constant dragging over that shell will wear your leader out over time - yes I'm talking 20 lb. fluoro. My line is so strong with braid, if I cant pop it out I can roll it out. If I can't do either of those two things I will pull up the entire shell clump. Most people walk right up to get their lure through fish it will turn off the bite.

Using a leader is personal preference but I know more than 3 top guides who prefer not using one and all 3 fish really clear water. Those fish are not line shy.

As far as using mono goes - there's really no comparison and I would go as far as to say the people who still use it probably have been throwing it for years and are just used to it. I haven't met anyone who switched over to braid that has regretted it. Too many up-sides. The only downside (not even) with braid is the stretch factor but that can be eliminated by loosening your drag. So basically, no downside to using braid.

If you fish every day like I do losing $8 corkies on shell humps because you were using a 20 lb. fluoro leader just isn't an option. I don't have time to be messing with shell and ***** so tying directly on is a much better option for people fishing mud/shell bottoms which is what you should be doing in the winter anyways. Not to mention every time you tie something extra onto your main line it's just another thing that can go wrong i.e. leaders, clips, etc. For people who spend a lot of time chasing big fish it makes absolutely no sense to use a clip and to a smaller extent a leader unless you really have to and risk losing that one trophy fish on a malfunctioned clip or knot. Just my opinion.


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## RACK EM UP 31 (Jan 9, 2010)

You have been talking to JimD way too much... haha

I still don't think Jim has found the right rod, with the right line, and the right weight added to the right color Fatboy, to get it to sink in the right gut, on the right tide. 

Sometimes we spend so much time worrying about making everything right, that we miss the days on the water when you can't do anything wrong...


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## Smackdaddy53 (Nov 4, 2011)

RACK EM UP 31 said:


> You have been talking to JimD way too much... haha
> 
> I still don't think Jim has found the right rod, with the right line, and the right weight added to the right color Fatboy, to get it to sink in the right gut, on the right tide.
> 
> Sometimes we spend so much time worrying about making everything right, that we miss the days on the water when you can't do anything wrong...


I fished all day yesterday with the same maniac mullet tied on and didnt worry about anything but having to leave. What is wrong with discussing fishing? Is that not what the name of this section is? Im comfortable with what gear And methods I use.

http://www.fishingscout.com/anglers/SmackDaddy


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## RACK EM UP 31 (Jan 9, 2010)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> I fished all day yesterday with the same maniac mullet tied on and didnt worry about anything but having to leave. What is wrong with discussing fishing? Is that not what the name of this section is? Im comfortable with what gear And methods I use.
> 
> http://www.fishingscout.com/anglers/SmackDaddy


What is wrong with me ribbing a guy a little bit? You can't say that good ole' Jim takes what goes on at the end of his line to a whole new level... lol


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## Gilbert (May 25, 2004)

RACK EM UP 31 said:


> You have been talking to JimD way too much... haha
> 
> *I still don't think Jim has found the right rod, with the right line, and the right weight added to the right color Fatboy, to get it to sink in the right gut, on the right tide. *
> 
> Sometimes we spend so much time worrying about making everything right, that we miss the days on the water when you can't do anything wrong...


:rotfl: :rotfl:


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## JimD (May 25, 2004)

Gilbert it is not a problem when you are OC on what is the best product or technique. It is great when you are doing dentistry but I do like order and the best that can be done no matter what the project is. 

I used to gunsmith a little in the 80's and my guns are on original Chet Brown stocks and shoot 3/4" or less at 100 yards. Chet Brown was one of the original guys that started making fiberglass stocks back before you could just buy a drop in and bed. I made more than a few trips to Carters C at lunch working up the perfect loads in those years. They shoot just as good today and when I did the work in them in 83.

Most of the picking and comments on the board is in good fun. 
I dish it out enough so I can take my share in return. 

What do you think?
Am I really bugged that I keep getting my butt kicked on a regular basis corky fishing?  I am sure that I am the only one on the board like that. 

Tobin, You did a nice post. 
Be interesting to see who uses what rod and action- probably a med fast or med extra fast in a casting rod and how many use braid over mono, with or without a leader.

Tobin what line did you use in the pool pictures for the T Trout DVD. mono or Braid? 

You will have most us us going back and looking at the bait action on the dvd.


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## Elbutto (Jan 31, 2013)

Maybe its just a confidence thing, but I feel like I get more bites when using a fluoro leader attached to braid. I feel like it gives me the sensitivity of braid and invisibility of fluoro, and I've never had any issue with the double uni knot breaking. I even use it with micro guide rods. Doesn't sound great but have never had a break off due to it.


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## JakeNeil (Nov 10, 2012)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Braid all the way, i tried 12# mono again on one of my reels and was so spoiled my the superior properties of braid that i set that rod in the holder for the rest of the trip and respooled it with braid the next day.
> As far as people claiming braid causes fish to be lost, I agree to an extent that with too much drag pressure you will lose many of the big trout you hook due to torn out hooks. This is an easy fix! Loosen the drag, don't horse the fish and they will stay on unless they headshake and sling the hooks loose with the weight of a lure and you give the fish an opportunity by allowing slack in the line. Always keep pressure and try to keep the rod tip low so the fish will keep lower in the water. The number of super light strikes you miss with mono is definitely not an easy fix, I would rather use braid with a lighter drag and be able to feel every tick of my lure kissing the shell or bottom and hook that light biting fish and also to know my lure is getting deep enough when those fish are laying on the bottom.
> For the sink rate of mono vs floating of braid, this too is easily remedied. Just use what most braid guys use and tie on a six foot mono leader on the braid so the floatation of the braid has no effect on the lures depth and you get that extra bit of shock absorption most braid alone can't offer. Why six feet? Because any more than that any you have a transition knot going through your level wind on the reel and one more friction point to pass through. Any less and you may have problems getting a lure deeper because of the floatation of the braid and when you change lures a couple of times the leader gets too short. I know a few guys use braid tied directly to the lure (brent juarez for one) but this is just personal preference.
> 
> http://www.fishingscout.com/anglers/SmackDaddy


Do you use a uni to uni knot to tie the two lines together? I bought a couple spinning set ups so that I could use braid. With my revo and Chronarch E7 the braid just digs into the spool. I bought a 50E just yesterday to see if this will combat the braid digging in since it has a larger spool diameter. I also wanted them to spool on some braid, but after seeing the guy behind the counter spend twenty minutes trying to figure out how to use the machine, I decided not to let him touch my reel. Usually not an academy fan, but I had a $50 gift card.


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## troutsupport (May 22, 2006)

You gotta put that braid on tight the first time.. I spool it on then run it down the street and reel it back on very tight... you could also troll it out behind the boat with a lipped bait and real it back or... or you could tie it to an SCB ...that'll get it real tight ;-) 

in the Pool footage in the TroutSupport.com DVD's I used 30lb Windtamer with 5-6 feet of Pline 25lb 100% flouro.. for those mud shell humps like Grind was fishing... some of the areas we fish in matty i use 30lb flouro leader. Open water east galveston in the summer i might drop it back to 20lb. but that is a diff story. 

I know several guys right now that are in the midst of the same dilemma. Jim just happens to be one of them ;-) I do need a new gunstock actually ;-)


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## JimD (May 25, 2004)

uni to uni yes. Go with 30 braid because it sticks less than 20.

Place your backing if you chose to use it then uni to uni and put the braid on the reel as tight as you can get it. I use an old Houston phone book and stand on the book to keep the line tight on the reel If the line is not tight the line will bury into the spooled line and cause all kind of problems. Basically you cannot get the braid on too tight. Just rem to let the drag off after you place the line so that it can rest until you get ready to fish.

Rack em at your age of 21 (barely legal?) You should be out looking for a cute 21 year old girl fishing buddy instead of hanging and on the board with a lot of old married working guys.

If you find the right partner then when you are out fishing you do not care if you catch fish or not. Seen friends with benefits before but fishing buddy with benefits "wow" that is if your mom will let you stay out.


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## Bearwolf34 (Sep 8, 2005)

Thats a big roger on using all 20 or 30lb braid. I finally got rid of my fluoro leaders as i got tired of the line snapping and loosing good fish. Its all braid now and will zip out plenty good for me and strong enough to straighten a treble hook when hung up.

As far as knots when tying braid to a mono leader, I always used the "red phillips knot" which is basically an overhand knot on one end and a unit knot with 10-12 loops. Never had a knot fail so far using that. 

Only thing i plan on using differently is trying some of the sufix 832 braid folks swear up and down about.

I forgot to mention, like the others have said, i do loosen off my drag. When i yank to set the hook, the reel will let out a little line...its hard to not yank it to canada in the heat of the moment


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## Aggieangler (May 28, 2004)

My vote is for 30# sufix braid with no leader. I fish the mid coast and this setup year around. I will admit I have had one big pig pull loose in the last year. On the flip side, I landed a 28.25 inch trout and a 26 inch trout in the summer with both of them doing multiple headshakes, on the same setup. 

I have learned to fish my drag looser than with mono. I bet my winter time catch is up about 200% since I can now feel the fish that are biting. I switched to braid abou 5 years ago or so. I won't go back. My 9yo son is fishing braid now too.

Like Bear above, I am about to try out that new 832 sufix. I haven't had a need for it yet, as the sufix braid on my reels never wears out. About my only time to re-spool is if I am in a situation where I cannot get the lure back and have to cut off a large length. (yikes)


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## Smackdaddy53 (Nov 4, 2011)

Crazy alberto from braid to mono, only popped the leader with a fish on once but it was a big trout that swam around a pvc stake encrusted with barnacles. Spit on it before you cinch it or the friction will believe it or not melt the braid and pop at the knot. 
Powerpro8 superslick 20# wound on tight on any baitcaster will not dig in, ive got 30#, 20# and 15# and it never digs in even under tight drag settings. Overfill the spool flush with the edge and do like tobin said and unspool all of it in the yard by hooking a tree and walk it out, reel it up tight as hell with rod bent and guide the braid on the spool evenly so its not fat on one side. 14 Shimanos and not one problem with line dig. Hope this helps.

http://www.fishingscout.com/anglers/SmackDaddy


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## Jean Scurtu (Dec 6, 2011)

Sorry ,but i don't know why you use 20-30 lb. braid to catch some 10-20 lb. fish???
I was catching 23 lb. red fish with FIRELINE ORIGINAL SMOKE 4 lb.+14lb. fluorocarbon leader,and many specks 10 lb. and under!!!


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## Cody C (May 15, 2009)

Jean Scurtu said:


> Sorry ,but i don't know why you use 20-30 lb. braid to catch some 10-20 lb. fish???
> I was catching 23 lb. red fish with FIRELINE ORIGINAL SMOKE 4 lb.+14lb. fluorocarbon leader,and many specks 10 lb. and under!!!


I've used smaller line and will continue to at times, but trying to cast a big bait like a corky with small line leads to you losing $8 really quickly. 
For every style of fishing, there is a type of presentation that works best. Corkys and 4lb line don't mix. 
Another reason for the larger braid vs mono is because mono is a rubber band that stretches around 40%. Braid <1% 
If you get any over run that catches, the braid is much more likely to break.

Anywho, I'm a braid and corky guy. I will put a leader so that I can tie a loop knot but have caught fish on straight braid

Cody C


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## Jean Scurtu (Dec 6, 2011)

I don't fish with corky,because i am fishing just at ROLLOVER PASS from the bank with jigs and floating,suspending lures(Mirrolure,Rapala,Yo -Zuri etc).
I never have problems fishing with braid 4-10 lb.+14 lb. fluorocarbon leader and i lose some lure just if i find some snag.....


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## Smackdaddy53 (Nov 4, 2011)

Jean Scurtu said:


> Sorry ,but i don't know why you use 20-30 lb. braid to catch some 10-20 lb. fish???
> I was catching 23 lb. red fish with FIRELINE ORIGINAL SMOKE 4 lb.+14lb. fluorocarbon leader,and many specks 10 lb. and under!!!


Jean, with all respect for an angler such as yourself that has been fishing in more places and longer than I have been alive, our techniques are much different. You are the long spinning rod King of Rollover Pass! Wade fishing is a different animal without a doubt.
Especially when im fishing from my kayak if i hang a clump of oyster shell and im on anchor i can usually pull it free and touch up the hooks with my hook sharpening stone real quick or cut off any frayed mono with a quick loop knot and get back to catching fish. If i can't free it and feel like im about to break off a $7 plug i will pull anchor or stake out stick and go retrieve it. When wading you may be casting in 5 or more feet of water and if its cold there is no way in hell im going over my waders to retrieve a lure but if i can pull it free its back to fishing. That tiny line would last about two casts on shell. With your long rods you are pretty much vertically jigging right? You are over the structure, not more level with it where your line is more susceptible to getting frayed on rocks, shells or other hazards. Other reasons are because I use mainly baitcasting reels and its impossible to use smaller than 15# braid without it digging in itself and causing more problems. I have a new shimano stradic ci4 with 20# on it as well, it just casts better. When youre casting a thousand times a day you run more risk of breaking off a lure if you use lighter line. Why do pro bass anglers sometimes use 65# braid on extra heavy rods just for a fish that averages 3-4#? For the same reason, they want to get its head turned and out of the tree, weeds or structure the fish are holding in. Another reason is the lighter the line/rod the longer you have to play the fish and the harder it is to release a big trout after playing with it for ten minutes on light line. Its too worn out, especially in hotter months where the water is also hot, a stressed fish can't be revived and released too often. If I am going for an IGFA line class record I may go for the lighter set up but not on a regular basis.

http://www.fishingscout.com/anglers/SmackDaddy


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## grindthegrind (Jan 28, 2013)

Jean Scurtu said:


> Sorry ,but i don't know why you use 20-30 lb. braid to catch some 10-20 lb. fish???
> I was catching 23 lb. red fish with FIRELINE ORIGINAL SMOKE 4 lb.+14lb. fluorocarbon leader,and many specks 10 lb. and under!!!


That shell reef doesn't care how big your 10-20lb. fish is.


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## Gilbert (May 25, 2004)

Jean Scurtu said:


> Sorry ,but i don't know why you use 20-30 lb. braid to catch some 10-20 lb. fish???
> I was catching 23 lb. red fish with FIRELINE ORIGINAL SMOKE 4 lb.+14lb. fluorocarbon leader,and many specks 10 lb. and under!!!


where are you catching 10 lb specks and how many? that's more impressive than fishing with 4 lb line.


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## grindthegrind (Jan 28, 2013)

Gilbert said:


> where are you catching 10 lb specks and how many? that's more impressive than fishing with 4 lb line.


Tell Gilbert where the 10 lb. specks are and tell me where the 20 lb. specks are!!!!


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## Jean Scurtu (Dec 6, 2011)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Jean, with all respect for an angler such as yourself that has been fishing in more places and longer than I have been alive, our techniques are much different. You are the long spinning rod King of Rollover Pass! Wade fishing is a different animal without a doubt.
> Especially when im fishing from my kayak if i hang a clump of oyster shell and im on anchor i can usually pull it free and touch up the hooks with my hook sharpening stone real quick or cut off any frayed mono with a quick loop knot and get back to catching fish. If i can't free it and feel like im about to break off a $7 plug i will pull anchor or stake out stick and go retrieve it. When wading you may be casting in 5 or more feet of water and if its cold there is no way in hell im going over my waders to retrieve a lure but if i can pull it free its back to fishing. That tiny line would last about two casts on shell. With your long rods you are pretty much vertically jigging right? You are over the structure, not more level with it where your line is more susceptible to getting frayed on rocks, shells or other hazards. Other reasons are because I use mainly baitcasting reels and its impossible to use smaller than 15# braid without it digging in itself and causing more problems. I have a new shimano stradic ci4 with 20# on it as well, it just casts better. When youre casting a thousand times a day you run more risk of breaking off a lure if you use lighter line. Why do pro bass anglers sometimes use 65# braid on extra heavy rods just for a fish that averages 3-4#? For the same reason, they want to get its head turned and out of the tree, weeds or structure the fish are holding in. Another reason is the lighter the line/rod the longer you have to play the fish and the harder it is to release a big trout after playing with it for ten minutes on light line. Its too worn out, especially in hotter months where the water is also hot, a stressed fish can't be revived and released too often. If I am going for an IGFA line class record I may go for the lighter set up but not on a regular basis.
> 
> http://www.fishingscout.com/anglers/SmackDaddy


Thanks Mac,you give me the right answer and now i can understand the reason for using stronger line.
Sorry ,most of my live in Europe i was fishing in fresh water(90% in rivers) so here for about 10 years i start to learn something about salt water fishing and because my health problem i can't wade or use one kayak for fishing.
Now i am able to fish just at Rollover Pass ,but before i was fishing on GALVESTON jetty,piers, SAINT LUIS PASS,Texas City DIKE and in fresh water below LIVINGSTON DAM.
Here in Texas i start to learn different fishing(fresh and salt water),because i can't find the fish what i was catching in Europe and i am happy because i was able to catch and here some fish,but for sure i have a lot to learn about fishing here.
But i am old and now is not easy to learn like when i was young the new things about fishing.
Mac,you give the right and logic explanation for using stronger lines and i understand you must adopt all the tackle for the place and fish you are fishing.
At ROLLOVER PASS i can fish easy with FIRELINE 4 lb.+8 lb.-14 lb.fluorocarbon leader catching nice fish,but for the reason to not lose so many jigs i am using and 10 lb. braid.+fluorocarbon leader.I like finesse fishing,but just where is possible to use finesse fishing.I am not looking to catch some trophy fish and to have some record ,i am fishing just for fish over the size limit in Texas ,but when one big fish bite i try to bring the fish in my landing net( sometimes i keep the fish , sometimes i release the fish).

Regards,

Jean


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## Smackdaddy53 (Nov 4, 2011)

Jean Scurtu said:


> Thanks Mac,you give me the right answer and now i can understand the reason for using stronger line.
> Sorry ,most of my live in Europe i was fishing in fresh water(90% in rivers) so here for about 10 years i start to learn something about salt water fishing and because my health problem i can't wade or use one kayak for fishing.
> Now i am able to fish just at Rollover Pass ,but before i was fishing on GALVESTON jetty,piers, SAINT LUIS PASS,Texas City DIKE and in fresh water below LIVINGSTON DAM.
> Here in Texas i start to learn different fishing(fresh and salt water),because i can't find the fish what i was catching in Europe and i am happy because i was able to catch and here some fish,but for sure i have a lot to learn about fishing here.
> ...


No problem Jean, there is at least one thing we all have in common, the love of fishing. Its time for another Rollover report soon!

http://www.fishingscout.com/anglers/SmackDaddy


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## Jean Scurtu (Dec 6, 2011)

Gilbert said:


> where are you catching 10 lb specks and how many? that's more impressive than fishing with 4 lb line.


Gilbert,

I was catching many nice specks at Rollover Pass,but just one 10 lb.,and i am fishing just with artificial( not with live bait) and 4 lb.,8 lb.,10 lb.braid + fluorocarbon leader.


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## spurgersalty (Jun 29, 2010)

Jean Scurtu said:


> Gilbert,
> 
> I was catching many nice specks at Rollover Pass,but just one 10 lb.,and i am fishing just with artificial( not with live bait) and 4 lb.,8 lb.,10 lb.braid + fluorocarbon leader.
> 
> ...


How's that Gilly:slimer:


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## grindthegrind (Jan 28, 2013)

spurgersalty said:


> How's that Gilly:slimer:


Sorry guys. Gilbert isn't here. Too busy taking his shimano core back to academy LOL.

Nice trout Jean - those are some hogs.


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## Gilbert (May 25, 2004)

Nice trout but not 10 lbs.


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## Troutslurp (Dec 19, 2004)

Elbutto said:


> Maybe its just a confidence thing, but I feel like I get more bites when using a fluoro leader attached to braid. I feel like it gives me the sensitivity of braid and invisibility of fluoro, and I've never had any issue with the double uni knot breaking. I even use it with micro guide rods. Doesn't sound great but have never had a break off due to it.


This Is What alot of "folks" use. For Many different Reasons. The main One would be visability issues. Another is: Useing a Loopknot with Braid is almost impossible, but with Mono, theres alot more "action" with your lure.
When Retying to Mono, Your never Loosing any braid, You are loosing your mono...
I prefer tying mono to braid with a Surgeons Knot!
Slurp


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## grindthegrind (Jan 28, 2013)

Troutslurp said:


> This Is What alot of "folks" use. For Many different Reasons. The main One would be visability issues. Another is: Useing a Loopknot with Braid is almost impossible, but with Mono, theres alot more "action" with your lure.
> When Retying to Mono, Your never Loosing any braid, You are loosing your mono...
> I prefer tying mono to braid with a Surgeons Knot!
> Slurp


Will have to agree to disagree which is why a lot of things like this just comes down to fishing what you are confident in and personal preference.

1. Visibility issues - Don't think it matters unless you are in LLM or super clear water. Have caught trophies on green braid tied directly to the line in super clear matagorda water. Have heard from some of the top guides in that area and galveston bay who catch trophy trout every year in clear water on straight braid. I could see it being an issue down south though but for mid to upper coast it doesn't matter. In the clearest of clear water I totally agree with you.

2. Loop knot - I threw my corkies in a pool with straight braid on a loop knot and noticed no difference in action compared to mono. If anything the mono just made my lure float more which isn't what I wanted it to do anyways, if I wanted that I'd throw a floater. Mono leaders are good for topwater applications and that's about it. They hinder your lures true sink rate. Not for me.

3. Losing the mono leader over braid - Also disagree because I lose more lures over shell and trophy fish due to my leader snapping/frayed knots/mistied knots through guides than the cost of losing a little bit of braid. If you wade for 6-8 hours at a time over shell that 20 lb. fluoro leader (let alone mono, mono will get destroyed quick) will lose a lot of line strength and eventually have a bunch of weak spots. Not gonna chance losing big fish. I'd personally rather spend a little extra money on extra braid then put more problems and potential issues between you and the fish aka knots, abrasions, connections, etc.

One more reason that I'm confident in straight braid is that if I get hung up I don't lose lures OR line 95% of the time because I can pop it out with my hands or pull up the entire shell clump with my lure attached. I can throw braid all day long and never worry about getting hung up or losing a bunch of line strength. Takes a lot of days fishing to break that 30 or 40 lb. braid and only a few bad shell hang-ups (or even one) to break that mono or fluoro. So all in all I say if you fish an area that isn't crystal clear fishing straight braid would have more benefits.

Above all else is to just throw whatever you have confidence in. Every point on both ends can be debated to the ends of the earth but it all comes down to personal preference. With all that said if I'm fishing lower laguna madre I'd certainly throw a leader.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Nov 4, 2011)

I cant agree with braid with no leader has more benefits but like you stated, we will have to agree to disagree. Two more days of work and ill be fishing. Most of this is personal preference and most of the time fish couldnt care less. The old days were much more simple and they caught plenty of fish with much fewer choices in boats, line, reels etc.

http://www.fishingscout.com/anglers/SmackDaddy


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## Team Burns (May 6, 2008)

Awesome fish JS!


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## grindthegrind (Jan 28, 2013)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> I cant agree with braid with no leader has more benefits but like you stated, we will have to agree to disagree. Two more days of work and ill be fishing. Most of this is personal preference and most of the time fish couldnt care less. The old days were much more simple and they caught plenty of fish with much fewer choices in boats, line, reels etc.
> 
> http://www.fishingscout.com/anglers/SmackDaddy


Yeah I think it's all just over-thinking it - I'm with you on this one. Unless it's super clear you can rig something however you want to.

Glad you posted those pics Jean you got my blood flowing dude.


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## troutsupport (May 22, 2006)

Those are great fish jean. 

Yeah, it's really what you personally get confident in IMO.


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## JimD (May 25, 2004)

I was thinking his Zebco 33 not Shimano core? Maybe Gilbert should upgrade from from his Zebco 33 to the saltwater version for starters.


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## Gilbert (May 25, 2004)

JimD said:


> I was thinking his Zebco 33 not Shimano core? Maybe Gilbert should upgrade from from his Zebco 33 to the saltwater version for starters.


what is the right rod for a Zebco 33?


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## spurgersalty (Jun 29, 2010)

Gilbert said:


> what is the right rod for a Zebco 33?


Snoopy Pole.


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## JimD (May 25, 2004)

Not sure Gilbert.  

We need to ask the just barely legal kid (? Rackem) he may have that snoopy pole in the 4.5 or 5 ft wader mode with the extra fast shaft. 

Speaking of the good Zebco SS saltwater, I bought one for my son when he was about 8. Not a bad reel but weighs about 4x a curado. I guess I need to dig it out of the attic and sell or give it away to someone with a little kid. They were proud of those reels back then Guess it had to do with the SS parts vs plastic and base metals.


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## troutsupport (May 22, 2006)

spurgersalty said:


> Snoopy Pole.


I hear there coming out with the snoopy XT... it'll be my go to corky rod when it comes out...lol


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## cgerace19 (Jul 17, 2008)

I don't recall reading anything about the sound of the two. Ever held onto a lure tied with braid and had someone crank on their reel. It is Loud! The sound transfers through braid quite a bit. This is my biggest turnoff. I guess slow action lures may not have this issue, just rather stick with mono.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Nov 4, 2011)

cgerace19 said:


> I don't recall reading anything about the sound of the two. Ever held onto a lure tied with braid and had someone crank on their reel. It is Loud! The sound transfers through braid quite a bit. This is my biggest turnoff. I guess slow action lures may not have this issue, just rather stick with mono.


Only with the four strand braids, not all braid is rough and loud. I agree its annoying but thats why most of us have gone with powerpro8 superslick, sufix832 or fins xt. All slick 8 strand braids

http://www.fishingscout.com/anglers/SmackDaddy


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## cgerace19 (Jul 17, 2008)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Only with the four strand braids, not all braid is rough and loud. I agree its annoying but thats why most of us have gone with powerpro8 superslick, sufix832 or fins xt. All slick 8 strand braids
> 
> http://www.fishingscout.com/anglers/SmackDaddy


Good to know


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## Duck (Feb 21, 2005)

Biggest issue I have fishing braid w/out a leader is the braid fouling in the hooks. When walking a Fatboy it becomes a problem, even more so if thrown quartering to the wind.


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## hookset4 (Nov 8, 2004)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Only with the four strand braids, not all braid is rough and loud. I agree its annoying but thats why most of us have gone with powerpro8 superslick, sufix832 or fins xt. All slick 8 strand braids
> 
> http://www.fishingscout.com/anglers/SmackDaddy


Totally agree. I use the Fins XS (extra smooth) which is an 8 strand as Smackdaddy points out and it goes through the guides very smoothly and there is nothing like the noise of the 4 strand braids going through the guides. It is almost totally quiet. I fish with others using PowerPro Super8Slick and Sufix 832 and they all say the same thing.

I definitely use braid WITH a leader.

-hook


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## Jean Scurtu (Dec 6, 2011)

Gilbert said:


> Nice trout but not 10 lbs.


You can believe what do you want,i don't want to impress nobody,just i was saying what specks i was catching and where .
I like to see some pictures with some nice specks catch by you if is possible.

If you like to see one 40 inch,23 lb.red fish catch by me at Rollover Pass on jigs with FIRELINE ORIGINAL SMOKE 4 lb.please check this link :

http://www.fishingworld.com/News/Read.php?ArtID=000010715

What is important for me is my pleasure for finesse fishing and i can say i am not a good fisherman,i am just one average fisherman which sometimes is lucky catching some nice fish on artificial.....


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## gonefishing2 (Apr 28, 2011)

Those are nice trout, no matter what the scale says. 

Also, can any of you guys, trout support or anyone, tell me if trout will be preferring top waters or corkies right now in Galveston bay?


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## troutsupport (May 22, 2006)

Jean Scurtu said:


> I like to see some pictures with some nice specks catch by you if is possible.


You go jean! LOL... '-)

Trout tops or suspenders right now.. it's been warm enough..try both...a good way is throw a top for a while and if you just get a slap...go back to the suspending bait. straight from one of the TroutSupport.com videos actually. i can't take credit for that one.


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## cgerace19 (Jul 17, 2008)

Bine Jean!

I was thinking Scurtu had to be Romanian. Well reading the article comfirmed it. I spent a good bit of time working in Romania for a company called Cameron. The had a facility in Campina and Ploiesti. I absolutely loved the place! I can't wait to take my wife there.

I visited Bran castle, partied with friends in a castle in Brasov, went skiing in Busteni, toured Sinaia, had too much fun in Bucharest, the list goes on. Wish I could have made it to Constanta or Timisoara. Drank a good bit of tuica and palinka. Haha! I will definitely take my wife there one day to see everything there is.

Buna ziua!

Anyway, hope you continue slaying those large fish! Keep up the good work.


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## Jean Scurtu (Dec 6, 2011)

cgerace19 said:


> Bine Jean!
> 
> I was thinking Scurtu had to be Romanian. Well reading the article comfirmed it. I spent a good bit of time working in Romania for a company called Cameron. The had a facility in Campina and Ploiesti. I absolutely loved the place! I can't wait to take my wife there.
> 
> ...


Noroc,

Yes,i am Romanian and i was born 15 km. from Brasov and finish the Forestry University from Brasov(beautiful city) in 1968.Romania is beautiful country , but i am happy to be in U.S.A. ,BEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD !!!!!(living in Houston for 20 years).

I like to fish and i am happy because here i have a chance to catch a lot of fish and in the same time to have some nice fishing tackle what i don't have when i was living in Romania.

Sanatate si numai bine,


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## Timemachine (Nov 25, 2008)

Jean Scurtu said:


> ........in the same time to have some nice fishing tackle what i don't have when i was living in Romania.


That says it all right there! Thanks Jean


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