# 48" 25lb Baffin Trout pic....



## wolverine (May 29, 2004)

......Matagorda guide Bink Grimes says so.

He claims there are pics to prove a 48" 25lb trout was found floating during the hard freeze in the 60s.

Anyone seen it?


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## TKoenig (Apr 8, 2007)

no but i would love to!


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## kdubya (Jun 27, 2005)

Link to info ???



Kelly


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## wtc3 (Aug 16, 2005)

Bink isn't the only one I've heard that from. An older gentleman in Van Vleck tells of more than just a couple of trout during that freeze that were 40+ inches and better than 20 lbs............................................... wtc


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## calixtog (May 24, 2006)

I believe it. A couple of old shrimpers told me about a time in the 1960's they ran a trotline around the old Texaco Channel in Holly Beach and pulled a trout that was over 40 inches and weighed 22 pounds. 

I wonder if there was the genetic makeup for giant trout back in '60's, and they got wiped out, sort of like giant sturgeon in the Columbia.

Cg


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## Lat22 (Apr 7, 2005)

I've heard the same kind of stories from the old salts who live down here.


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## Wading Mark (Apr 21, 2005)

I've seen a picture of a 19 lb. trout from 5th Pass. It was caught in the early 70s.


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## GHSmacker (Feb 27, 2006)

I've read where Bink talks about that too. I've never seen the pic though, and i wouldn't doubt it at all.


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## kingtender (Oct 12, 2005)

Commercial friend has a pic of a few they picked up floating all around forty. The picture is in a bait shop and you would never no unless he points it out to you the pic is so old and faded. It dropped my jaw. He showed me after i asked whats the biggest trout youve seen


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## reelthreat (Jul 11, 2006)

I have seen old pictures of Corvina that people have tried to pass off as huge specks. In old grainy photos they sure do look alot alike. 

I am not saying there is not the posibility of a 40" trout, but I have heard a ton of stories down south and am still looking for the elusive picture of one.


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## Bluffer (Feb 24, 2005)

Come on, fishermen dont lie.


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## juanpescado (Dec 22, 2006)

I believe that was the tale during the 83 freeze , I remember hearing about it as a little kid growing up in Corpus , I can also tell you first hand that I had seen tons of HUGE trout floating in the canals off the island , my stepdad had one of the first houses off whitecap on the canals and we were amazed , mother nature is crazy at times ...


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## POCO LOCO (Mar 7, 2005)

I have talked with some of the Older Game Wardens that were around during our freeze down here! I have seen some big dead fish, back when the commercial guys had the old high lines in the water, when they could sell them! I do believe it and I believe there are some still here! I personally seen a skin mount over 35", that came from Baffin, just a few years back! Would it not be cool, to be the first person to bring in a new state record Alive, so it could be verified, and added to the restocking program, that my goal!!! Good fishing for the gill'ed beast. Regards Donk


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## Capt. Lowtide (Jun 30, 2004)

There was or still is a restaurant off SPID in Corpus a few years back that had some b&w pics on the wall of massive trout. Some of these I believe were actually dated and mentioned the fisherman in them. I think it was called Bubba's or something like that, good burgers, cold beer and pics to drool over were the reasons I dropped in there.


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## reelthreat (Jul 11, 2006)

http://www.mexfish.com/fish/omcorv/omcorvthom.jpg

Check this out... How big do you think this one is?

Yes, I know what it is.


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## redfish bayrat (Feb 17, 2006)

I know a retired game warden that is pushing 90 right now. He is still sound of mind but moves very slowly. He told my dad and I stories of fish kill that occurred in 9 mile hole before the channels were dredged out because water got too hot in the summer and did not hold enough oxygen. Huge reds and trout would get trapped.

He also told of massive kills in '59 when it snowed in Aransas Pass. Had more winter kills in the 60's and big ones in '83 and '89. He never said anything about 40 inch trout but he did talk of 36 and 37 inchers being killed in large numbers.


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## Hotrod (Oct 11, 2006)

reelthreat said:


> http://www.mexfish.com/fish/omcorv/omcorvthom.jpg
> 
> Check this out... How big do you think this one is?
> 
> Yes, I know what it is.


15 lbs, 35 inches. That sure is a pretty specimen. Nice fish also. Doesn't look like a trout tho. No front teeth, and a trout that size with a gaff in its lip would have the gills all flared out. Looks like its cousin tho.


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## Terrynj (Jun 27, 2006)

Hotrod said:


> 15 lbs, 35 inches. That sure is a pretty specimen. Nice fish also. Doesn't look like a trout tho. No front teeth, and a trout that size with a gaff in its lip would have the gills all flared out. Looks like its cousin tho.


Thats what I call a Yankee trout...they call them their original name of spotted weakfish (because of the softmouth).
Heres a pick of two and the web site..big seems to be pretty common with them...

http://www.myfishpix.com/gallery/showgallery.php/cat/501


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## Terrynj (Jun 27, 2006)

Edit on the last post...thats the mexican version...the ones I posted are the Yankee trout.
here is a pic of the State Record that was caught in '02, I didn't think they had counted it because he cpr'ed...but it listed on the TPWD web-site...
http://www.dargel.com/whatsnew.htm go to the bottom of the page...

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/fishboat/fish/action/staterecords.php?env=SW&age_group=all&list=0&browse=Submit

I came from Corpus and I too heard the stories of 45" trout washing up after the freeze, but yep, no pix...


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## JimD (May 25, 2004)

Course we do have a little more pressure from a few more people fishing now than you did back then. A fish that old and big probably can name each lure that it sees every day. 

Think of it like a trophy deer lease. I have seen big deer when I used to hunt in South Texas all over on a ranch not hunted or selectively hunted. 

Go down the road to the next ranch that has too many hunters killing too many young deer and you MAY have a few big deer but they are hard to see even from a helicopter survey much less kill. They are are far and few between.

Kinda like Galveston Bay now vs when Grigar and his friends were the only ones Really fishing in the 40's and 50's. Think how many more big fish there were for the boys to catch becuse of the lack of pressure.

Wonder what Baffin will look like in a few years as its fishing pressure increases?


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## wolverine (May 29, 2004)

kdubya said:


> Link to info ???
> 
> Kelly


No link available. It was talked about in one of Bink's articles in Tx Saltwater Fishing mag last year sometime.


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## fishsmart (Dec 5, 2004)

In Mexico, some corvina look similar to trout and they are a lot bigger.

Charles


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## FishinHippie (Jun 19, 2005)

the biggest drum in the world is to be found in the sea of cortez...

the totoaba. Can get to over 200 lbs! Endangered species.. illegal to target or posess


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## BIG PAPPA (Apr 1, 2008)

*40" + TROUT*

Guys, i'll get with my dad and go through some old old photos. He had a cabin in the kennedy landcut from 1960 thru 1984. he also was a commercial fisherman back in those days(sold trout,reds & flounder). it was legal then. all fish sold were actually caught on a rod & reel,he didn't beleive in gill nets or trout lines.i guess back then, he was concidered a conservative. every time he found one, he'd cut it to peices and load it in the boat and then burn them at the cabin. But....at rocky slough, drifting in the early am(when it was 10-16 feet deep) before it silted in to what it is today, catching trout in excess of 36 inches long was an everyday thing. i'm not trying to stir any pot, i'll ask him to dig some old picture up and maybe Cali can enhance them and maybe write a story about fishing today vs then. Old salts that tell these stories are NOT liars. i was a kid then and remember like it was yesterday and 40" trout happened a few times between the old man and some of the others that owned cabins. I saw them and if you don't beleive it,,,thats okay too. after the freeze, the coastgaurd teamed up with the TPWD and flew all the shores of baffin all the way down to the arroyo colorado and the TPWD noted: Several Trout in excess of 40 inches have not survived this freeze. these large trout have been found around baffin edges all the way to just north of the arroyo. Guys, it's good right now 2007-2008 and getting better. But nobody can ever make me beleive it's better than it's ever been. I was there back then.


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## rodwade (Feb 13, 2007)

I was at a BBQ a few weeks back. I arrived late because I was cutting and burning a gill net that was left in my Panga when I purchased it from a Govt auction. One fellow said he and his father used to run them 20 years ago down toward baffin. They had a modified large Stoner with a hidden compartment. he said they would pull Tons (litterally) of trout out of there many being 30+ inches. He mentioned one that would have gone close to 40".


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## Texas Jeweler (Nov 6, 2007)

Many stories of hugh trout come about time to time. Now, if there was really fish of this size, don't you think a shrimper would pick up one now and then?

I know the way into Baffin and Laguna Madre back then differed from now, but someone would have saved one of the world class fish for the wall, dont you think?

The genetics are still there, the water is still there. Fishing has changed, due to boats and equiptment, but Spotted Weakfish of this size, 40 pounds is possible, but not probable.


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## Freshwaterman (May 21, 2004)

TPWD has been setting gill nets out for 30 plus years, as part of their research. There is no documentation, by them, that any have been caught at these lengths.


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## jjjj (Aug 17, 2005)

Biologist once told us that trout can grow easily over the 40" or even 50" mark. He said the trick was for them to survive long enough to do so. So it is possible.


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## Leemo (Nov 16, 2006)

jjjj said:


> Biologist once told us that trout can grow easily over the 40" or even 50" mark. He said the trick was for them to survive long enough to do so. So it is possible.


Agree, BS on the big trout!


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## Leemo (Nov 16, 2006)

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! I quoted the wrong post, meant to quote specktrouts quote, oh well.


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## Hardhead1012 (Apr 2, 2008)

My dad tells a story of a man who found a 40" or so trout in East Matagorda bay. He claims he saw it. It had a legal trout in its mouth, it had choked to death on another trout....


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## reelthreat (Jul 11, 2006)

My dad did alot of fishing in baffin and south when he worked for the ASCS in the 60s and 70s and as a kid in the 50s. Everytime I take him there now he talks about how much it has changed and how much bigger the fish are now. He siad they would pull a truck up along rocky slough and catch a pickup bed of 12-14" trout and spend all night cleaning them (same results on a boat). He said they would catch some larger but for the most part they were schoolies.


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## awally (Mar 12, 2007)

I call BS always lots of stories from ol dad and uncles, grandpa's blah blah blah, but no pics, or mounts or documentation, but plenty of tales, you would think there would be something documented


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## wolverine (May 29, 2004)

Bink says he saw the pic, talk to him. http://www.binkgrimesoutdoors.com/


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## BIG PAPPA (Apr 1, 2008)

*30 years*



SpeckledTrout said:


> TPWD has been setting gill nets out for 30 plus years, as part of their research. There is no documentation, by them, that any have been caught at these lengths.


yes they have. and that would be from after two devestating freezes. which killed them all. 30 years ago was 1978. the times all the old salts talk about is before TPWD started getting involved with their surveys. and as far as the guys that drove to the banks of rocky slough catching small school trout, he's right. at any given time you could load up with smaller fish. but to actually take them to market, nobody would buy fish like that. it took 20-36 inch fish to produce $$$$$ at the fish markets. 
there's an old guy named Gene at Billings Bait Stand (the owner) under the JFK causway. ask him about 36-40 inch trout back in the 60's and early 70's and he might even pull out an old picture or two.


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## Javadrinker (Feb 13, 2008)

Some of the long time Flower Bluff guys .. there used to be a bait shop on the right hand side of what is SPID on Flower Bluff past the intersection the went to the NAS. I want to say that place was A1 or A&H .. something like that before the high bridge was built over the ICW when it was still a draw bridge.. they had some pics there of huge trout, with dates and weights measurements ..


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## awally (Mar 12, 2007)

why wouldn't they mount one ? or have a pic blown up and frame in all the seafood places or fishing stores etc. ?


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## Freshwaterman (May 21, 2004)

My uncles were commercial fishermen out of Port Lavaca in the 1940s till Hurricane Carla killed the business in 1961. Biggest trout they ever caught in a net near Pass Cavallo went 15# and was "over 3 feet long" . Had it mounted and sold it to a Houston resturant as a wall hanger. The resturant was on Main street near the old Rice hotel and my family sold this resturant fresh trout, redfish, flounder, shrimp they would haul up in a refrigerated truck each Thursday and Monday. I remember seeing this huge mounted trout hanging there as a kid - maybe some of y'all remember it too!


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## TKoenig (Apr 8, 2007)

My guess is because fishing back then is a whole lot different from fishing nowdays... they fished for food or money... not much for recreation, so would you pass up on a huge delicious 38"trout fillet for a mount... when you dont have much money and that 1 fish could feed your whole family...

now the pictures i cant say much about... most of all the pics i see from the 50's are of tarpon, and huge ones at that!



awally said:


> why wouldn't they mount one ? or have a pic blown up and frame in all the seafood places or fishing stores etc. ?


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## BIG PAPPA (Apr 1, 2008)

*Back Then*

just take a look at the state records and dates. not much to speak of during those times. nobody really cared about that kind of stuff back then. big fish equalled big money or a large dinner. also, people didn't take pictures for memories like we do now. and another thing is traveling from the JFK Causeway all the way down to the landcut, if we saw more than 3 boats, it was concidered busy with fishermen. the water depths in these areas were much deeper back then than now and I beleive that was part of the reason they survived so much longer. and the freeze in the 60's was a very long and Hard freeze. but the silting in has played a huge role over the years. so every foot silted in in these areas has made it harder for these fish to survive as time goes by. if we had a huge hurricane rip thru there, clean it out, open several guts throught the dunes that would stay open for at least a couple of months, i think it would add another few records to the books within an couple of years.


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## awally (Mar 12, 2007)

you would think that with all the people on this board that knew somebody that had one over 40 that one of those would have been caught, nowadays with all the fancy equipement and boats and lures and all, you would think that the state record would be bigger than what it is, just curious, I mean man you would think somebody would accidently catch one somewhere !


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## ol' salt (Jun 11, 2006)

Did he also show you the photo of the Ivory Billed Woodpecker in the cage in his living room?


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## awally (Mar 12, 2007)

no pics? somebody is bound to have one clear pic of all these monster trout that ya'll speak of ??


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## huntinguy (Aug 22, 2005)

I saw an old pic of one that had to be over 40" cause a black panther had him by the head and the fish's tail was still on the ground dragging.


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## Too Tall (May 21, 2004)

awally said:


> no pics? somebody is bound to have one clear pic of all these monster trout that ya'll speak of ??


They are as sneaky as a black cat.


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## Freshwaterman (May 21, 2004)

I'm sorry but the wall mount of that big trout was lost when the owners of that resturant quit business. Any pictures were lost when family home was blown down by hurricane Carla in 1961. Trout at best was likely just an equal to trout Rowland caught and released in LLM. I remember 36" ("3-ft long") and 15#. Bud Rowland caught and released a spotted seatrout that measured 37 ¼ inches and weighed 15 pounds, 6 ounces on May 23, 2002 - a new line class world record and eventual Texas state record (seen below).









I also remember that our family's big trout was caught in a net in late spring near Pass Cavallo and was the biggest trout my family who had commercially fished the area for almost a 100 years had ever caught. So in my estimation, the biggest spec trout in Texas would be less than 38" and less than 16#.

I'm still looking for that fish - my biggest to date - Baffin April 2003 - 31-1/4" 11# 6 oz. Caught on a Catch 2000 Mirrolure in 808 color.


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## awally (Mar 12, 2007)

yeah laugh but still no pic's or solid evidence just like the ol cat stories, I was gonna say that but figured I better not, really guys not bashing or anything but really post some up, I would love to see them or some documented proof if there were indeed so many of these 40" fish and everybody knows somebody that seen one that was 40"


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## awally (Mar 12, 2007)

I am talking about all the ones that everybody said were 40, I have seen buds pic before, and man it is a monster


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## Freshwaterman (May 21, 2004)

> you would think that with all the people on this board that knew somebody that had one over 40 that one of those would have been caught, nowadays with all the fancy equipement and boats and lures and all, you would think that the state record would be bigger than what it is, just curious, I mean man you would think somebody would accidently catch one somewhere !


Exactly, TPWD has never caught a fish even close to what some people claim they've caught or seen. They've never even gill-netted a fish over 14lbs. And, it took 30 years to barely eclipse the previous state record, set by Blackwood. Wallace's fish is the record, IMO. Pictures can be misleading, as well.


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## WestEndAngler (Jan 30, 2007)

Wow... and I thought my 32" 7.5lb trout was big for my fly!


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## JohnHumbert (May 21, 2004)

*My $0.02 worth*

Here are my thoughts....

First, can speckled trout reach that size? Sure, absolutely! All you have to do is look at the documented catches in Florida and IGFA records to see that 17# to 19# speckled trout are possible. While the Texas IGFA line class records have been brought into question, there is no doubt about the FL catches. I would say that it is entirely possible that a 20+ lb. speckled trout could exist.

Secondly, were fish bigger "way back then". Absolutely. There were also an infinitely number of smaller fish too! Back in the 60's when I was a boy, catching 50-100 trout (albeit mostly smaller fish) in a day was COMMON! With the total population 200-300% more than today (conservatively), it is not unreasonable to believe that there were more big fish too. One thing that I remember clearly is that back then, when you found the big ones - there was often a SCHOOL of them. In the early seventies, I can remember getting into fish down south where we caught 20-30 trout 5lb to 7lb. in a single morning, mostly out of a single school in a hot bite. I mean, cast - 5# fish, cast again, another 5#, cast again - 7#, cast again -miss one, cast again - another 5#.

Third, a 40" speck? Count on it! In the late 70's I personally was wading Tide Gauge and had put a 28", and a 30" on the stringer, along with a half dozen "meat" fish between 20"-24". Walking back to the boat I saw three dark shapes that I thought were logs right on the bank, over the sand area between the dry bank and grass line. I thought they were logs because they stretched the whole distance from almost wet sand to drop off. As I walked along with my rod behind my shoulders I glanced over and now there was only 2 "logs". I pulled my rod around and started sneakin' on them when the 2nd "log" glided off the sand and disappeared over the grass. When I got close enough to see, the third "log" was a huge trout. I cast, landed right on her head and she spooked off (sh!t and other comments). I walked over to where they will laying up and measured the distance on my rod - the distance from the wet sand to the drop off was 48" (exactly half the 8' custom-build rod from a fly-rod blank I used at the time). Those fish had to be close to 40" and dwarfed the two big fish on my stringer who couldn't nearly cover the length of sand these fish did.

Furthermore, there was a lady in Rockport named Sophie Brown. Her friend was named Myrtle and had a house on Fulton Beach road. Mytle and Sophie used to invite me and my dad to fish with them off her pier. It was one of those with the cane poles stuck at regular intervals. During the spring, I would catch schoolie specks for Mrytle and she would use the live as bait under a huge popping cork on those cane poles. One Saturday we went to her house and she had a polaroid of a trout she caught the night before. It was hanging from the rail of the pier (she couldn't hold it up - being close to 70 yo and very short of stature) and the tail hung over the floor boards. That was 38". She said that fish weighed "over 15" and the fillets we ate that night. Length of the fillet = 28", measured and verified.

Now I know these are still more "fish tales", and I think the number of large trout is no way near what it was - but I also think that the number of anglers and increased skill level of the average Joe - we are catching way more big fish that back in the 70's. However, even so, I think there could be a big one out there still. You know, very few people heard of Bud Rowland or thought a 15# Texas trout was possible - but that man has been seeing them and catching 12-13 pound fish for years. He just was quiet about it. BTW, if you know the tale about Bud's fish - it was the SMALLEST of three fish he saw laying up.

I am firm believer that with proper conservation, ethics, and C & R - we could develop a trophy fishery in Texas that could cough up a 17# to 19# trout. It is up to us, because I don't think that it will happen "naturally" any more.


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## JohnHumbert (May 21, 2004)

*Oh, something else...*

Somebody should call Kelly Parks in Victoria and ask if he has any pictures from some our SWAC road-runner tournys. I remember one where I had a 10-trout stringer that weighed 49 pounds and wasn't in the top 10!!! The winner was my friend Routt from Austin with a 10-trout stringer that weighed 93 pounds. That's right, 93 pounds. And I DO have a picture of that somewhere.

Kelly, if I remember correctly, had several trips around that time with more than one 10 pound trout on the stringer. And I remember one morning where 4 of us had stringers that all went over 75 lbs.

This was in Baffin in the early to mid eighties, post-freeze.


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## Freshwaterman (May 21, 2004)

> First, can speckled trout reach that size? Sure, absolutely! All you have to do is look at the documented catches in Florida and IGFA records to see that 17# to 19# speckled trout are possible.


You guys are talking about subspecies of fish. This is like comparing apples and oranges. The world record redfish was approximately 100lb. Nothing even remotely that size has come outta Texas. There's a huge difference between world records and state records.

Look at whitetails in Kansas. Some of them approach 400lbs! What do they weigh in Texas???


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## Freshwaterman (May 21, 2004)

> Somebody should call Kelly Parks in Victoria and ask if he has any pictures from some our SWAC road-runner tournys. I remember one where I had a 10-trout stringer that weighed 49 pounds and wasn't in the top 10!!! The winner was my friend Routt from Austin with a 10-trout stringer that weighed 93 pounds. That's right, 93 pounds. And I DO have a picture of that somewhere.


No offense, but what does this got to do with trout growing over 40"? By the way, that's believeable because I've seen it done. Those are less than 10 lbs, by the way and considerably less than 40".


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## Wading Mark (Apr 21, 2005)

JohnHumbert said:


> Somebody should call Kelly Parks in Victoria and ask if he has any pictures from some our SWAC road-runner tournys. I remember one where I had a 10-trout stringer that weighed 49 pounds and wasn't in the top 10!!! The winner was my friend Routt from Austin with a 10-trout stringer that weighed 93 pounds. That's right, 93 pounds. And I DO have a picture of that somewhere.
> 
> Kelly, if I remember correctly, had several trips around that time with more than one 10 pound trout on the stringer. And I remember one morning where 4 of us had stringers that all went over 75 lbs.
> 
> This was in Baffin in the early to mid eighties, post-freeze.


Yessir. I've seen numerous pictures of 10-trout, 100 lb. stringers come from Baffin/ULM. Heck, Eastman caught a 100 lb. stringer in East Bay (Galveston) years ago.


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## Tight Knot (Sep 8, 2004)

My cousin lived on Fulton Beach road for over 25 years before moving to Holiday Beach.
Rockport just got to big for em. He has a pic of a trout on a yard stck that was well past 36". The old man who caught it put the knife to it right after the pic. We quessed around 38". Back then it was more about the weight versus the length. 40" trout hmmmmm i'd love to see it.
Tight Knot


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## Rack Ranch (May 25, 2004)

Thanks for all the info and education you have provided during this post..I didn't realize that there was commercial fishing in Texas around 1900 ..That would be awesome info to read about..The 40'' trout is documented somewhere in history.Walker


FlakMan said:


> I also remember that our family's big trout was caught in a net in late spring near Pass Cavallo and was the biggest trout my family who had commercially fished the area for almost a 100 years had ever caught.


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## JohnHumbert (May 21, 2004)

*St...*

ST,
First, the species in Florida is not a sub-species, it is the exact same species. Same for redfish on east coast. I am certain we have 80 lb. redfish swimming in our waters.

Second, I brought up the big stringer to illustrate the point that there used to be a LOT more big trout swimming in our bays. When you have a large number of 30" fish, the chances of some growing to 36" is much greater. Simple numbers.

For example, strictly pulling numbers out of the air to illustrate a point - let's say that 5% of a year class survive. If you take 10000 two pound fish, 500 will reach 4 pounds, and 25 will reach 6 pounds, and maybe - maybe 1 will reach 8 pounds. Unlikely that any will reach 10 pounds.

However, if you have 1,000,000 two pounders - then 50000 will reach 4 pounds, and 2500 will hit the 6 pound mark, 125 will hit 8 pounds, 6 will survive to 10 pounds, and maybe 1 will beat the odds to reach 12 pounds.

The more fish, the greater the chance that monsters will develop. Simple math. This is what conservation is all about and has been proven with so many species. Of course, you have to have environment and genetics too! But if we had numbers like we had 30 years ago, we have the environment to grow 'em big - especially down south.

Your example of deer is good, but animals up north - because of the environment - tend to put on weight faster because of the season and growth rates. South Texas is not much different than Indian river or Mosquito Lagoon in Florida, where those big ones were grown.

A 40" trout in Texas would have to be on the order of 12 years or more - with the anglers and methods we have in Texas now - chances are pretty good she'd run across a Top Dawg before reaching that age - unless she is very smart, very lucky, or some angler released her in good condition back into the water. This is news?


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## wolverine (May 29, 2004)

Good info JohnH. Thanks.


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## Freshwaterman (May 21, 2004)

What I understand from family oral history, that fish would be caught in wintertime and shipped same day to markets in Victoria and San Antonio in iced railroad cars. The 1st ice plant using ammonia water was built in Port Lavaca in 1880s. This ice plant allowed commercail fishermen to sell catches shipped in iced railcars and later iced insulated trucks. Our families 1st refrigerated truck that did not use ice was bought in early 1950. This is what caused a boom in the commercial business.


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## JohnHumbert (May 21, 2004)

*Over the years...*

...in the POC area I will typically run across a trout that is around 36" or so every year. Once or twice a year I may see one while sight casting, or running the flats, or even offshore diving once.

I think most of the guides or other that are on the water a lot will report the same thing. Year after year.

But no one I know has caught one.

Now either we are all crazy, or none of us can estimate size correctly, or we're all liars - or maybe all three! But maybe, just maybe, there are indeed some monsters that continue to elude even the best guides and hard-code anglers year after year.

I want to believe!

After breaking the 30" mark a few times, my new life goal is to finally nail one of those big girls at 36" or better. I, personally, think there are 1 or 2 out there every year.


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## Javadrinker (Feb 13, 2008)

Bud Rowland knew those big girls were there, he'd tried many times to get them before, and probably since. I'm pretty surethere are others that have seen trout that size recently, but seeing and catching .. now there are two very different things.


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## Freshwaterman (May 21, 2004)

> ST,
> First, the species in Florida is not a sub-species, it is the exact same species. Same for redfish on east coast. I am certain we have *80 lb. redfish* swimming in our waters.


*No, they are different subspecies.* A marine biologist can tell a Matagorda trout from a Baffin trout just by studying its genetics. This is the truth. A trout/red from the east coast isn't genetically identical to a Texas trout, period. I'm not making this stuff up. Ask a biologist, if you don't believe me. My father recently retired as a Marine Biologist. He worked with a lot of people that spent their whole professional careers studying this kinda thing. I encourage you to research this issue and discover the facts.

Also, an 80lb. redfish is nowhere near 100lbs and the world record.


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## Freshwaterman (May 21, 2004)

> After breaking the 30" mark a few times, my new life goal is to finally nail one of those big girls at 36" or better. I, personally, think there are 1 or 2 out there every year.


I found two 34" trout with my dad during an actual count, conducted by TPWD, after the freeze of '88. Does that mean they get to over 40"- 48"????? Not, really, IMO.

For that matter, some people believe in bigfoot, the loch ness monster, etc. Where is all the proof? People said it, so it MUST be true, right? By the way, I'm not trying to say that anyone is lying or trying to untruthful. People, especially, fisherman are known to "streeeeeeeeeeetch" the truth, occassionally.


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## Freshwaterman (May 21, 2004)

> ...in the POC area I will typically run across a trout that is around 36" or so every year.


Well, I mount trout and have had people tell me that they have a trout over 30" that they want mounted. Upon receiving said fish, I discover that it's actually not even 29", let alone 30"+! This has happened time and time, again. All these 30"+ trout end up being nowhere near 30"! They usually end up being around 28 to 28 3/4".

And, you are able to accurately measure a fish that's swimming freely in the water? Wow! That's quite the claim......


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## JohnHumbert (May 21, 2004)

*Speckled Trout*

Don't wish to be argumentative, but I don't think that is quite correct. If I am wrong, please point me to the documentation. I looked and I just can't find it.

It's a popular misconception because of the way biologist talk about genetics and genetic proteins. Specifically mitochondrial DNA.

First, you have to understand how the matching is done. You have to have a sample as a control or baseline. For example, you take a trout out of Baffin, log the DNA. Then you catch a trout at location 'X'. If the genetic proteins (mDNA) matches the control Baffin sample, you can say that this animal is directly related to the other animal. But you cannot say that the 'x' animal is from Baffin - because it DNA doesn't prove LOCATION, only a relation. Conversely, if you catch a trout from Baffin and it DOESN'T have the marker, it doesn't mean that it DIDN'T come from Baffin - because it could be from a different "family" not marked/charted in Baffin. Granted, this is way oversimplification.

It is this variance that keeps the "genetic" mapping "theory" rather than "fact".

BTW, I learned this because of a research project some years ago about nailing "illegal" fish in a fish market. If you go to Kemah, for example, and see the trout and redfish in the market on ice - if the "theory" was proveable fact - you could prove exactly where those fish came from - and if they matched a Texas bay and not a "farm" - you could nail them in court. Which is exactly what we were trying to do.

However, when the biologists got under deposition, the "real" truth came out.

That truth was that the genetics were only PART of the identification. The other was chemical analysis of tissue relating to habitat. This similar to the forensics where FBI analyzes chemicals stored in human hair to identify where a suspect may live geographically.

Furthermore, while "population" or "family" genetic markers are indeed mapped in the different bay systems (which is the basis that biologists claim that there is little spillage of populations between bay systems and there is no movement between bay systems) - no correlation between these markers and growing to particular size has EVER been found - yet. They may find it next week! In order words, no one can say factually that Baffin trout grow bigger because of genetics.

Moreover, you have to be very careful on how the data is intrepreted. I give you a great example. I'm not sure of the exact numbers, but I'm close enough to illustrate my point. Biologist net surveys, recapture tags, and genetic information indicate that 93% of trout are caught/recaptured within the same bay system, not too far from where they were tagged. Biologist assert that trout do not migrate between bay systems. Sound like a reasonable conclusion - and I guess it is.

However, biologists use one kind of logic - old salts another. What interests me about those stats is that 7% are NOT caught within the same bay system. These fish are often caught several bays systems and hundreds of miles away. These are the fish that interest me. The really interesting thing about these non-conforming fish is that they are typically larger upon recapture that the non-migratory fish. Perhaps, just perhaps, that fish that migrate a long distance have a different genetic footprint or (what I think) have a different pattern.

This is the basis of my theory of "The Mullet Eaters". I believe that there is a class of fish that - for whatever reason - learn or are genetically disposed to feed on mullet. Because of this behaviour, they travel long distances following the mullet schools and exhibit the well know "tide runner" patterns. As was so aptly pointed out, different food sources can result in dramatically different growth rates and "stoutness". Mullet are an extremely nutrious food source - much more so that shrimp, glass minnows, or perch. They are high in protien, fat and oils which can accellerate growth and cause fish to "bulk" up and grow faster. If these same fish are travelling great distances, they are getting "exercise" (for lack of a better term) and become more "conditioned".

Perhaps, just perhaps the old salts observation of those big "tide runner" trout is true - up and down the coast. And it is this behaviour, not genetics, that causes trout to growth big and strong over their "local" brethern. My total theory is too long to go into here, but it has - IMO - just as much validity as other - and is supported by the same set of facts. And incidently, also explains neatly why 40" are so rare.


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## Wading Mark (Apr 21, 2005)

Let's bring another angle to this this discussion. Did anyone consider that just because an enormous trout hasn't been caught on our favorite flats doesn't mean that one (or many) lives offshore? My Dad and I have come to believe that the beachfronts and short rigs along our coast are probably the place to look for these trout because of the vast territory.


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## Javadrinker (Feb 13, 2008)

JohnHumbert said:


> Perhaps, just perhaps the old salts observation of those big "tide runner" trout is true - up and down the coast. And it is this behaviour, not genetics, that causes trout to growth big and strong over their "local" brethern. My total theory is too long to go into here, but it has - IMO - just as much validity as other - and is supported by the same set of facts. And incidently, also explains neatly why 40" are so rare.


I would love to hear your theory.


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## Flat's Hunter (Oct 18, 2007)

I am not trying start a ******* contest here, But I have seen that they raise trout to be released based on bay location becuase of some genetic relationship they have and the local trout tend to spawn in a somewhat closed population based on bays, and that genetic relation dictates how they spawn naturally in the area so that they are successful at reproduction. that being said, does that make them a subspecies, i dont know the definition, but it does seem obvious that they have a somewhat closed breeding population, so could there be differences for sure depending on selection in different areas. I think trout are proabably alot like humans around the earth, we are much the same with some areas having short or tall people, or blue eyes, or what ever.


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## Red Tuna (May 19, 2007)

Great stories JohnHumbert...


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## Islander05 (Dec 12, 2004)

*Oh so true...*



SpeckledTrout said:


> Well, I mount trout and have had people tell me that they have a trout over 30" that they want mounted. Upon receiving said fish, I discover that it's actually not even 29", let alone 30"+! This has happened time and time, again. All these 30"+ trout end up being nowhere near 30"! They usually end up being around 28 to 28 3/4".
> 
> And, you are able to accurately measure a fish that's swimming freely in the water? Wow! That's quite the claim......


Take a look at all the "30's" on certain websites that have "30 inch clubs" or "trophy rooms" a large number of those trout aren't close to what they claim either. All fisherman do it though, you have to overexaggerate a little.

It's the quest for a trophy trout that keeps us casting our favorite lures day after day. Whether a 40'' trout exists or not, we'll never know unless we keep going out there and plugging away.


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## Aggieangler (May 28, 2004)

I love hearing the old stories and seeing old photos. Please post more old stories and photos if your Grampa or Dad was around way back then. I am going to ask my Gramps some more about it tomorrow. He loves to talk fishing.


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## awally (Mar 12, 2007)

it's funny how these type of threads die out when people are can't produce any documented proof of all these 40" trout, but oh well let the stories continue ! oh I knew a guy one time that caught a 40" too, see how easy it was to say that, yeah I knew a guy that said he knew a guy that caught 2 40" s in the same day back in 1953 down in Baffin, and this guy was a reliable source, cool now I'm in the "I know somebody that caught a 40" " club too ! popcorn now please !


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## Wading Mark (Apr 21, 2005)

I believe you, awally. I don't think we can really comprehend how good it used to be since we weren't there.


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## ExAstro (Jun 22, 2005)

*Trout*

I fished West bay back in the 70s & 80s. I can remember filling an ice chest with specs from Rooster Collins pier then staying up all night cleaning them. Also, got into a school of reds at South Deer and three of us caught about 25 (they all weighed between 3 & 5 lbs.) But that is nothing compared to stories I heard of hundreds of trout caught in West bay back in the 60s. There was almost no fishing pressure back then. No shrimpers also. Ah, the good old days.


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## GHSmacker (Feb 27, 2006)

I'm not sayin i don't agree with you awally, but you also have got to remember that way back in the day a lot of those people didn't have access to cameras or anything to take good pics. Most of them probably never thought about keeping fishing journals either, they just kept stuff stored in their head.

Not sayin i don't agree with you, but just putting that out there.


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## awally (Mar 12, 2007)

Ghsmacker I understand you!, I was just making a point that the thread sure got quiet and fizzled out !


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## Terrynj (Jun 27, 2006)

GHSmacker - awally fails to realize that there weren't that many cell phones back in the ol' days with cameras .....made it difficult to have 30 - 40 digital pics from every fishing trip.


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## BlueWave86 (Dec 18, 2004)

I think that there are trout way over 40 " out there somewhere, most likely in the surf/nearshore. Just like in humans how many of us get over 8ft tall? a couple out of 6 billion? the odds are there, just give it time one will show up. Yes, it may be a freak of nature but they are out there- kinda like hogzilla lol. anything is possible until proven otherwise. Plus, that spotted seatrout caught in florida (world record) was well over 40" and over 17 lbs so....


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## awally (Mar 12, 2007)

you're absolutely right there could be one over 40" there could be on over 50" there *COULD* be one over 100" but unless somebody catches one, but I agree with you 100% anything is possible !


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## BALZTOWAL (Aug 29, 2006)

I'm Posting The Picture Of A 40 Incher I Caught Under The Lights At The Cabin As Soon As I Figured Out How To Post- Oh And I Don't Need Any Help Posting Thanks


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## jdipper1 (Jul 18, 2007)

I love you guys thatneed proof. My dad did not take many pictures, but I can remember a picture of a 25' stringer filled with trout up to 5 lbs. We did not keep anything larger as they were not as good to eat. Can I now produce the picture? No, my dad threw it out when he was cleaning out "old usless" stuff. The purpose of fishing "back then" was to put food on the table. When I was a kid, we always had a full freezer of fish and shrimp. Yes, we used to pull a 10' trawl for shrimp before you needed all of the licenses and stuff you need today.

If we caught a big fish, we let it go. Wall mount, why, it was a waste of money. Pictures? Most people did not have a camera, or even a telephone for that matter. We had a 14' mohagany boat from probably Western Auto with a 40 hp Scott that didn't run as much as it did.

We NEVER caught large fish in our trawl including flounder. The big ones were smart enough to know what was happening and leave.

Things were differnt back then compared to now. It was important to catch fish and shrimp to feed the family, not see who could catch the biggest and the most.

I sure do miss the simple days.

How many of the neighsayers have had a true Texas inshore GRAND SLAM? 10 flounder, 10 trout and 3 redfish?

I have had 3 with 20 flounder, 10 redfish and 30 trout before there were the restrictions we now have. Pictures, not even a one, just showed to the neighbors while I was cleaning and shared them with friends.

Remember guys, it is not about the biggest and the most! The best records are in our hearts and the most important record to me is when my grandson out caught me in the bay. He beat what was to him the "master" fisherman.

I get my peace on the water and and fish brought home is a BONUS.

Share GOD's love and what he has given us.

Now I am waiting for the bashers.


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## GHSmacker (Feb 27, 2006)

I knew you were awally. 

I understand what you're sayin too jdipper1. I wasn't around for any of those days, but i wish we could return to something around those lines now. I doubt it'll ever happen now. There's way too much money wrapped up in being a fishing bada$$ for it to go back.


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## Fishaholic (Jan 9, 2005)

BALZTOWAL said:


> I'm Posting The Picture Of A 40 Incher I Caught Under The Lights At The Cabin As Soon As I Figured Out How To Post- Oh And I Don't Need Any Help Posting Thanks


Send it to me I will post it up I want to see a 40 inch trout.


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## BIG PAPPA (Apr 1, 2008)

*the facts . com*

guys check this out. as i said, several trout in excess of 40 inches were found dead on the shorelines af












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 ​
It's the right time for speckled trout

By Bink Grimes
The Facts Published January 28, 2007

Reports were not encouraging. Winds were ravaging the waters like they had been all winter. Catches were at a minimum. Water clarity resembled a frosty glass of Yoohoo.

When blistering cold blusters blow in Texas, there are not many places to hide, especially if you plan to fish.

Consecutive weeks of enduring 15-25 mph winds is enough to give any die-hard plugger cabin fever; and, it did. There was only one solution - hitch the boat and head south.

Rain dripping from the roof of the Corpus Christi hotel welcomed us as we stepped out the door to check the weather. Lightning and blowing precipitation kept us pinned to the dock until after sunrise. Our destination was some 42 miles away and our teeth chattered from the mixture of soaked clothes and steady winds.

An hour later, as our boat idled off the channel, we spotted a few flipping mullet tight against the shoreline. A dozen casts into our first session, Capt. Melvin Talasek duped a pair of six-pound speckled trout. We quickly forgot about the long, wet boat ride.

Baffin Bay's propensity to yield consistent catches, even in the dead of winter, has prompted many upper coastal guides to relocate during January, February and March. When winter wind blows hard in Sabine Lake, Galveston Bay and Matagorda Bay, a fishing day is pretty much shot; when it blows in Baffin, it is business as usual.

Baffin Bay runs east and west, giving its entire north shoreline protection from blistering winter winds; if the weather shifts to the south, bounce across the bay and work leeward waters. Ardent anglers learn to cast in gusty conditions, or stayed reclined in their favorite chair until the weather stabilizes in May.

Besides its winter fishablility, Baffin's lure is its trophy speckled trout. The Texas state record was caught here. There are reports and pictures to verify a 48-inch, 25-pound trout found floating during fish-killing freezes in the 1960s. Since TPWD began conducting gillnet surveys more than 25 years ago, biologists estimate more than 86 percent of 30-inch or larger trout caught in the nets along the entire Texas coast come from the lower Laguna Madre - the stretch of coast which Baffin Bay resides.

Biologists believe the Laguna Madre's hypersaline waters, which are saltier than the Gulf of Mexico, contribute to the behemoth growth of speckled trout. A trout in a hypersaline environment does not endure the freshwater swings upper coastal trout do. Flood rains dump fresh water into the bays by way of rivers; and, upper coastal bays need the freshwater for shrimp production and other shellfish.

However, if a body of water keeps a constant salinity, its inhabitants, trout for instance, can grow larger due to the fact they can absorb nutrients more readily. Upper coastal trout must fight to keep their internal osmotic balance of blood chemistry when salinity rises and falls. In turn, upper coastal trout work harder to maintain homeostasis, thereby missing out on all the nutrients their diets have to offer.

Consider a sick person. Doctors often claim rest is the best medicine for recovery since homeostasis is most easily kept when docile. When at rest, the human body is able to absorb and use more proficiently the nutrients from food and vitamins. The same holds true for trout. A happy, well-nourished trout in a constant environment will grow larger, more quickly, than one that has to swim long distances for food and a saltier locale.

Lack of fishing pressure is another determining factor that builds a bigger fish. Baffin Bay is a remote place. You don't just decide to go fish Baffin for a few hours. From Corpus Christi, it is at least a 40-minute boat ride. From nearby Rivera, it is closer; however, sparsely populated Rivera is not exactly on the beaten path.

There are places for fish to hide in Baffin Bay that are not reachable by humans. Lack of pressure results in easier homeostasis. Compare it to stress. Those humans with stress live shorter, unhealthier lives, while those with few cares live long and prosperous lives. Now apply that to speckled trout - you get the picture.

Being an avid topwater freak, as much as I hate to admit it, suspending plugs and soft plastics catch more fish in Baffin Bay in the winter. I am not saying the topwater will not work; it has its applications on warm sunny days between coldfronts. Nevertheless, the majority of winter fish stage on the bottom portion of the water column. There, temperatures are warmer than the surface - sometimes just one degree warmer - that one degree can make all the difference when searching for fish.

The lore of Baffin Bay is much larger than its actual fishing acreage. What sets Baffin apart from other Texas bays is its unique rocks.The rocks, according to authorities, were formed by prehistoric worms millions of years ago. They provide structure to baitfish and are magnets for trout.

John Dearman brings the rocks of Baffin to life in his watercolor paintings; though seeing it for yourself is priceless. Casting a bait to a rock then watching a silver flash dart out of the shadows ranks up there with South Texas Boone and Crockett bucks and banded greenheads. I will be bundled up in Baffin Bay this winter. If you want the best odds in Texas of catching a heavy trout, you will be, too.

Bink Grimes is a freelance writer, photographer, author and licensed captain. Contact him at binkgrimes(at)sbcglobal.net or www.binkgrimesoutdoors.com. ter the freeze.


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## BIG PAPPA (Apr 1, 2008)

*The Facts . Com*

Guys, i have since requested a copy of the picture and the documentation from them and will post it up as soon as i receive it(if i do receive it).


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## BIG PAPPA (Apr 1, 2008)

*a copy of the report*

this was actually printed in the Houston Paper in 1999. it speaks of the executive director of the texas outdoors whose job was working with TPWD imformation Branch. the picture will follow as soon as i get it. it was printed by Shannon Tompkins 12-13-1999 in the sports section on page 13. i thought it to be an awsome informative read. hope you guys like it here at 2-cool.
..
..Baseball sage Satchel Paige gets credit for the bon mot, "Don't look back; something might be gaining on you."

Great advice. Too bad it's impossible to follow.

We humans have an undeniable compulsion to look back.

Sometimes that lets us see where we've been and lets us gauge the direction we're headed. But often such rearward glances are more sobering than satisfying. They tend to show us what we've lost.

So it was earlier this week as I picked through a box of what kindly could be called "junk" collected by my friend and hopeless pack rat, Paul Hope.

Paul passed away a little more than a year ago, leaving a hole in the heart of everyone who knew him and a storage shed filled with items reflecting some of his greatest loves - the printed word, mesquite and the detritus of his 30-plus years as mostly unpaid executive director of the Texas Outdoor Writers Association.

Paul's real job was in the information branch of the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department, having gone to work for TPWD's precursor, the Texas Game and Fish Commission, in the late 1940s. So much of the storage shed's collection was somehow related to the agency.

Those of us who knew him were encouraged to take whatever we found of interest.

In the box I collected, among the pieces of hand-worked mesquite and the old TPWD magazines and other agency trivia were a bunch of yellowing scientific reports.

This week, I got around to picking through them.

There was a 1958 report on the Texas shrimp fishery, complete with photos, illustrations and explanations of what then were the relatively new otter trawls.

There was a 1962 digest of Texas hunting and fishing laws.
Anyone who thinks regulations are complicated today needs to try wading through that sea of confusion.

But perhaps the most fascinating piece was a 50-page report titled "An Ecological Survey of the *Upper* *Laguna* *Madre*", published in 1957.

The thing was hypnotizing.

The *Upper* *Laguna* *Madre* is today considered the state's premier fishery for large speckled trout. The two most recent state-record trout, a 13.5-pounder caught in the 1970s and the current record, a 13.69-pounder caught in 1996, were taken in Baffin Bay, a lobe of the *Upper* *Laguna* *Madre*.

But those fish can't match what anglers and biologists saw there in the 1950s.

More on that in a minute.

The report gave a brief history of the *Upper* *Laguna* *Madre*, then considered the Texas bay least affected by man, isolated as it was by huge ranches on the mainland and the uninhabited wilderness of Padre Island on the Gulf side.

It long remained a seldom-visited spot because of the distances involved. The west side of Baffin Bay was more than 20 miles from the closest access point. And until after World War II, when nominally reliable outboards became available, few anglers were willing to risk traveling that distance into such an isolated and wild place.

The document also indicated the *Upper* and Lower *Laguna* *Madre* had been one continuous bay until a 1919 hurricane shoved a portion of Padre Island into the bay, effectively dividing it into two parts - *Upper* and Lower *Laguna*.

I'd never heard that.

The bays remained separated until 1948, when the last link of the Intracoastal Waterway was completed. That barge canal, 125 feet wide and 12 feet deep, cut through the sand flats and dunes left by the 1919 hurricane, creating what *Laguna* anglers have ever since called "The Landcut."

There was more intriguing information.

The *Upper* *Laguna* had suffered bouts of "red water" or "bad water" from time to time prior to the 1950s. So the "brown tide" that has been hassling the *Upper* *Laguna* for most of this decade is nothing new, although most think it is.

But it was the information about the *Upper* Laguna's fisheries that was most spellbinding.

In 1956, the report said, the *Upper* *Laguna* produced a full 60 percent of all the bay fish taken from Texas waters, commercial and recreational.

And often they were both. Recreational anglers were commercial anglers in disguise.

The report estimated 38 percent of the total commercial catch of redfish and speckled trout taken from the *Upper* *Laguna* in 1953 was made by "sport" anglers who sold their catch.

Despite the growing fishing pressure and the drastic changes in hydrology caused by the Intracoastal and the building of a landfill causeway connecting Padre Island with the mainland, the bay remained an incredibly rich and diverse ecosystem.

The nets and trawls and other sampling devices used by the biologists showed fisheries that disappeared soon after.

They caught sawfish - two huge ones weighing more than 100 pounds.

Sawfish have been gone from all Texas bays for more than 30 years.

There were heaps of tripletail in the Landcut. There were hordes of pompano everywhere in the bay each autumn.

Neither are there now.

There were tarpon and pipefish and other species now seldom seen in the *Laguna*.

But what jumps out is the speckled trout. The huge speckled trout!

"Trout to 8 and 9 pounds are abundant, and individuals to 12 pounds are not rare," the researchers reported.

They backed that up with the yields from their gill nets. One net set along the Kenedy County shoreline near the Landcut in 1954 produced three speckled trout weighing 15 pounds or more!

There were several other trout taken by researchers that topped anything on record today.

But the most monstrous - the most absolutely incredible speckled trout - was one they picked up in the wake of a killer freeze in 1951.

That trout, found floating near Point of Rocks at the mouth of Baffin Bay, measured an unimaginable 48 inches and weighed an estimated 25 pounds!

That's almost 15 inches longer and more than 11 pounds heavier than the current state-record speck.

Unbelievable!

Satchel Paige was right.


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## Tight Knot (Sep 8, 2004)

Thanks for sharing a great story/report Big P.
T.K.


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## dennis_99 (Feb 27, 2006)

Big Poppa,

That was an excellent little read; thanks for sharing.


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## Javadrinker (Feb 13, 2008)

Big Poppa,

Thank you for posting that great read.


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## Freshwaterman (May 21, 2004)

> They backed that up with the yields from their gill nets. One net set along the Kenedy County shoreline near the Landcut in 1954 produced three speckled trout weighing 15 pounds or more!


TPWD used what were called "tramble nets" prior to utilizing gill nets, their current method. A tramble net involves a 3-layered net, that has different sized mesh. The fish literally get trapped between the layers of mesh and can't get out. I lived down the road from the commercial fisherman that taught the TPWD personnel how to use this type of net. He started working for the department after quiting his commercial fishing.


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## SlowMotion (Nov 20, 2007)

Some day the boys will be looking back and wonder why we did not mount that huge 17" trout that the old salts talk about, and why there are no pictures. Times change for better or worse, and I personaly would like to think that one day I might be able to catch something close to what yall are talking about. Largest to date 24" and yes I do have pictures. Not big you say, well to an 8 year old it was huge. I still have not beat it, beginners luck I guess 

So hears to the next fishing trip and to the monsters that could be caught.


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## BIG PAPPA (Apr 1, 2008)

Hey Speckled trout, was the old man's name Larry Mceachron? Larry was actually a Science director for TPWD and had been studying the effects of Freezes on the Laguna Madre. He died about 6-7 years ago and nobody knows what became of his archives of information on the freezes. But to all the questions about "Back Then", and why pictures/documentation is so hard to come by, TPWD has used all their info from studies since 1975 to present, and the information before was concidered anecdotal. so, the kind of imformation we all quest will be found in some old salts storage building or garage boxes or tucked away in a work bench waiting for us to bring them back to life. Man i just love digging stuff like this up with proof for the younger guys that were not there. I guess i should concider myself lucky to have been fishing these areas back in the 60's as a kid. i once saw a leopard shark in rocky slough i thought was around 12-14 feet long swim tight under my 16foot flat bottom boat when it was 16-18 feet deep then.


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## Freshwaterman (May 21, 2004)

> Hey Speckled trout, was the old man's name Larry Mceachron?


No, it was Lex Sutton. He worked as a technician for station located in Palacios. He knew some stuff about the bay. When he died, a lot of knowledge passed away. I really miss him. So does my dad. A real wealth of knowledge.

I remember, about 25 years ago, when I was a teenager, he was on a fish tagging trip with me, my dad, and Bob Colura. Bob is the scientist that figured out how to spawn trout and reds in captivity. On this trip, we were sitting in the boat anchored outside of Cotton's Bayou, when all of the sudden he put down his cigarette and told me that if I walked over to a little point of grass and cast my lure out that I'd catch a big trout. Believing every word he told me I walked about 100 yards to the "spot" made a cast and hooked a 27" trout.

Well, when I walked back to the boat with the fish, they were laughing their butts' off. Apparently, Lex was just messing with me and just wanted to see if I'd do what he said and try to catch a fish at the place he'd told me. What made it so funny is that he was just messin' with me and I actually caught a nice fish. At 13, I was pretty proud of that fish. It was my biggest for a couple years.

He could tell you exactly when and where to set the nets or go gigging, to catch the most fish. He made his living commercial netting and gigging until he joined TPWD.

My father knew Larry well, though.


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## GHSmacker (Feb 27, 2006)

Cool stuff ST.


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## BALZTOWAL (Aug 29, 2006)

Gonna Need A Bigger Net When I Go To Baffin.


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## awally (Mar 12, 2007)

pics ?


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## GHSmacker (Feb 27, 2006)

I doubt it awally. 

What someone needs to do is take a picture of the picture at the bait camp, or have it scanned or something. But will that ever happen? Doubt it....


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## awally (Mar 12, 2007)

well then I guess lets hear some more stories, cause there are plenty of them LOL !


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## BIG PAPPA (Apr 1, 2008)

*pics??*



awally said:


> pics ?


Guys, Larry Mc kinney(with TPWD) is on it. If and when he finds the picture AND documentation, he will scan and foward it to me and I'll surely post it up. I think it would be kick ***** to finally post up the real proof and then maybe we will all be in search of that 37 inch or better trout instead of just making the dirty 30 club.


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## awally (Mar 12, 2007)

yeah right !


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## surfwalker (Jul 14, 2006)

OKAY HERE'S MY STORIE AND IM STICKIN TO IT!!!!!!! I HOOKED THIS TROUT, AND IT PULLED MY BOAT AROUND THE BAY FOR 3 DAYS, THEN I WAS P*SSED OFF, SO I SHOT IT, I WAS TO HUNGRY TO REGISTER IT, SO I ATE IT...RAW....IT WAS OVER 6' LONG AND WEIGHED MORE THAT 94#, IT WAS CAUGHT ON DEAD SHRIMP ON THE BOTTOM, USING A SPARK PLUG FOR WEIGHT, AND A METAL LEADER...I ASKED THE GAME WARDEN WHAT HAPPENED TO THE SPOTS HE SAID, THE GO AWY WHEN THEY GET BIG LIKE THAT, JUST LIKE THE CHANNLE CAT'S SPOTS DO. HE HAD NETTED UP SEVERAL 40" 25# TROUT IN PREVIOUS YEARS AND SAID NONE OF THEM HAD SPOTS.......OH YEAH I WAS FISHING A MUD FLAT IN BRACKISH WATER MID SUMMER 3P 103% 2FT OF WATER.....










awally said:


> well then I guess lets hear some more stories, cause there are plenty of them LOL !


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## Terrynj (Jun 27, 2006)

There ya go! Theres your picutre...you've got proof now!


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## Snap Draggin (Nov 11, 2007)

reelthreat said:


> http://www.mexfish.com/fish/omcorv/omcorvthom.jpg
> 
> Check this out... How big do you think this one is?
> Yes, I know what it is.


Ummm, was there a fish in that photo?


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## waderX (Sep 5, 2007)

awally said:


> yeah right !


Theres your picture awally........ you happy now? 

I like hearing these old stories. Thats what keeps some of us going back out there time and time again in search of some true pigs. I think the stories are cool to read. Give it a rest man. You dont have to believe if you dont want to.


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## CaseyS (Nov 24, 2004)

*Nature Boy*

I was wondering what Rick Flair was gonna do after he retired from rastlin.


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## KYLE (Jun 6, 2007)

Snap Draggin said:


> Ummm, was there a fish in that photo?


DUDE I APOLOGIZE AT FIRST I DIDNT SEE THE LINK, AND THOUGHT YOU WERE REFERRING TO THE PIC OF THE GUY IN THE SPEEDO


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## stelvis (May 26, 2005)

*does a mount count?*

Cause here's a nice size trout (not quite 40") circa 1938 iffn it do:

http://2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/showthread.php?t=160117&page=1&pp=10


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## awally (Mar 12, 2007)

where's the pics you promised ?


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## BIG PAPPA (Apr 1, 2008)

*Promised Picture??*

QUOTE=awally]where's the pics you promised ?[/QUOTE] 
If your refering to me, i only promised to post it up if Larry McKinney of TPWD sends it to me. My post actually said "if and when i receive it". He was asked by The honorable Joseph Fitzsimmons to try and locate it. Joseph was the past Chairman of the board of the TPWD that recently finished his term. Joseph has recently told me by email that Larry is working on it. I want to see it as badly as everyone else.


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## awally (Mar 12, 2007)

exactly what I thought, just like bigfoot stories


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## dennis_99 (Feb 27, 2006)

CaseyS said:


> I was wondering what Rick Flair was gonna do after he retired from rastlin.


ROTLMAO!!!!!!!!!


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## awally (Mar 12, 2007)

come on! no more stories about all these gigantic trout, like the catfish under the Livingston Dam that were as big as volkswagons, remember that, oh yeah the divers were scared to get back in the water LOL ! I can assure you that if there were catfish that big some east texas good ol boy would find a way to catch one ! okay go ahead and bash now !


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## Freshwaterman (May 21, 2004)

> I can assure you that if there were catfish that big some east texas good ol boy would find a way to catch one ! okay go ahead and bash now !


That's pretty funny, actually.

And, that's been my argument, all along. If these "giant" trout existed in Texas, someone would have POSITIVE proof that they existed. TPWD has never caught a trout anywhere near the proportions people are saying using gill nets which are capable of subduing a 6' bull shark should it run into it! And, they set them randomly all over EVERY bay system. A 30" is rare to catch in them, even in Baffin. They've been doing this for decades.

Good grief, 48"? Heck, most people get excited catching an 18" and we're talking about a fish that's that much longer than a 30". :spineyes:


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## awally (Mar 12, 2007)

figured it would fizzle out !


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## GHSmacker (Feb 27, 2006)

Let it die awally, just let it die....


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## awally (Mar 12, 2007)

you ask somebody to provide proof and suddenly people get offended LOL ! now can I say " TOLD YOU SO !!" okay I'm done now !


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## Javadrinker (Feb 13, 2008)

I am still trying to find pictures from my relatives and their friend from those times, but I suppose you would need pictorial proof that the lower part of Texas was a grassland 150 years ago and not the brushy country it is today.


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## awally (Mar 12, 2007)

yawn !


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## John Paul (Feb 22, 2006)

Here's a pic


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## ducksandfish (Jul 11, 2005)

i remember them livingston dam volkswagon cat stories when i was young,hee hee.hey,i'm always insearch for something bigger and better.best trout yet,24'',gotta ways to go.


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## awally (Mar 12, 2007)

where's the pic's ?? We're still waiting


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## Javadrinker (Feb 13, 2008)

actually if you do any real searching yourself, you can find some of those pictures. Most won't post them here do to attitudes like yours.
Tight lines


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## awally (Mar 12, 2007)

as usual you always have an excuse like bigfoot stories ! so prove me wrong, so what are you saying there are a lot of those pic's floating around, yeah right this thread has run 13 pages and not one yet ! go figure hhhmmmmmm!


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## Freshwaterman (May 21, 2004)

> Most won't post them here do to attitudes like yours.


Disbelief, doesn't mean you have a poor attitude..........


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## awally (Mar 12, 2007)

thank you speckledtrout, I am not being mean, I just would like to see one of these pic's, if anybody has one, I ask to see one and everybody is like " what you calling me a liar!!!! oh my uncle wouldn't lie and my grandpa blah blah blah" just post up some proof of a 48" trout and it'll be done !


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## Freshwaterman (May 21, 2004)

Heck, that kinda monster would probably destroy my tackle. It'd either spool me, break my line or my rod. I ain't set up to handle creatures like that.....

Heck, I don't know if I'd even want to wade with 4 foot long trout! LOL :help: 

"Son....., you're gonna need a BIGGER ROD."


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## awally (Mar 12, 2007)

come on man post some pics, make me eat crow ! tell more stories !


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## awally (Mar 12, 2007)

TOLD YOU SO ! aint nobody got any pic's or they would be on here


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## Dan Palmer (Jun 6, 2006)

why does this keep surfacing. noone has produced the picture and I'm sure that it doesn't exist. Prove it with a picture that is not touched up, then you will have something. Until that happens we need to get this thread off the screen.


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## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

*For a Number of Reasons*



awally said:


> why wouldn't they mount one ? or have a pic blown up and frame in all the seafood places or fishing stores etc. ?


Money, they didn't have much.

Attention, they didn't want any.

And trout weren't sought after then as they are now...there was no Internet or know it alls who called b/s every time someone told a story.

TH


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