# Poling Skiff Question



## Gottagofishin

I'm pretty sold that I want a poling skiff as my next boat. And from previous posts many of you know I am looking seriously at Beavertail. 

From my research there seems to be two types of boats that will meet my needs. The technical poling skiff like Beavertail and Hell's Bay, and a higher performance variant from people like Sterling, Lake and Bay, Hewes.

What I'm trying to understand from people who actually own these boats is the realitive strengths and weaknesses.

As I understand it, the higher performance boats, besides being faster, are a bit heavier, and probably a little more stable. However, they don't pole as easily and draft more water.

What are some of the less obvious strengths and weaknesses of each that you wouldn't know unitl you own one.

Please try to refrain from comments on any boat that you don't have personal experience with. I figure I will spend a lot of money on this next purchase and I want to get it as right as I can.


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## kdumas

The only dis that i know of is your only going to take three in the Beavertail. 
I have owned, or run a number of boats; Osprey, 17' Whaler, 21' Shallowsport, 24' ElPescador, 14' & 18' alum. 12' Mody scooter. If you want to take a crowd and run across shallow water, El-Pescy works good. Just dont stick it, you will be ther all night if not longer. A lot ofthe alum boat will run and float shallow but the wave noise / slap is terrible. If you want one that is really shallow, the Mowdy scooter cant be beat. Its 2 perople "MAX" and will beat you to death in any chop but it will run in spit.
I just got my Osprey in Oct. and love it. with a Etech 60 its fast enough and sips fuel, handles chop, drafts 5-6" and polls like a dream. If I every stick it, @ 550lbs, I can push it out without getting 10 people to help. 3 of us couldnt move a 21 shallowsport one afternoon and waited all night for the 7am incomming tide to get 8" of water and then pushed it 400 yards.
I'm fishing / polling the middle and lower Tx coast and the Osprey w/ tunnel is perfect. Call Randy in Corpus and go take a ride, you Wont be disappointed.


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## Flaco

I don't think the other boats really qualify as "higher performance" boats. The HB, BT, & Gordon style hulls are about as high performance as you will find in a poling skiff. The question is, do you really plan on poling most of the time? If so, you will be unhappy with a bigger, faster, deeper boat. If not, buy a larger boat with shallow water performance. How much do you plan to pole is the most important question in my opinion. I own a BT B2 and love it. I pole most of the time. Good luck and what ever boat you get enjoy it and fish as much as you can.


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## Capt Mike Cook

If you are really serious about a technical poling skiff you owe it to yourself to look at the Maverick HPX-T.


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## cloudfishing

The hells bay waterman or the Maverick HPX-T, just my opinion. When they say they draft 5 inches they mean it. You do sit right on the water while riding in them. Different animal for sure.


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## Capt. Lowtide

Poling skiffs aren't for everyone, you may need to seriously consider where and how you will be fishing most of the time. Open/rough water is no place for a flatbottomed low sided boat, especially one without much vee carried back from the bow (wet and rough.)

True poling skiffs will draft very shallow when loaded lightly, put three grown men, 40lbs ice, drinks and 125 lbs of fishing gear in there and you will be lucky to push them along in 12" of water.

Another cosideration is your type of fishing, poling a boat is very differant from drifting or propelling with a trolling motor...will you be fishing or pushing someone else along to catch fish?

There are many differant boats available today, some with newer designs and others that were copied from other manufacturers boats designed in the 70's, at least consider one designed in the last decade. 

Before you spend your money, test differant models with either factory reps, boat dealers or guides who know the ins and outs of each skiff. I've run most of the boats currently in production and there are not many that I wouldn't consider owning, unless a manufacturer would give one to me, LOL.


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## Gottagofishin

Capt Mike Cook said:


> If you are really serious about a technical poling skiff you owe it to yourself to look at the Maverick HPX-T.


I'll give it a look. Thanks.


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## Stuart

Capt. Lowtide makes good points. Heck, he oughta he's a professional  For sure these little skiffs are not for "big" water. Obviously Curtiss has had his in the surf / jetties before, (see picture of his son's tarpon out of the Beavertail) but I guarantee you he has to pick his days.










A year later, even though I haven't done a whole lot of poling, I'm still very happy with my decision. It handles all the water that I primarily fish and I can't think of another type of boat period that would excel any better at what I was doing yesterday which was trolling the edges of a local river working the drop offs. Plus with rising gas prices, it sure is nice to add 3 or 4 gallons to what I have in the tank already and know that will last me all day.


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## bslittle79

Do you have a fishing partner or fishing partners that enjoy poling? Will they pole you around? In my opinion two people is the way to have the most fun on a poling skiff. It can be done alone but in my opinion it is not the way to enjoy a poling skiff.

If you can afford a large boat and a poling skiff I'd go that route. Gheenoe just came out with a little larger skiff that won't break the bank and with a tiller 25 could be a good second boat.

The largest problem I have with my skiff is not having a larger boat when people come into town and want to fish. Two is company, three is a crowd, and four is almost impossible(4 is impossible by most hull ratings).


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## Gottagofishin

That Tarpon's as big as the boat. LOL! 

All excellent points. My boat doesn't leave West Galveston Bay. At least half of my fishing is in knee deep water or less. I'm alone about 70% of the time and I travel light. I have a canal home so it's easy to just drop the boat in the water and head out for a few hours. You don't need a lot of gear and ice for that.

I don't mind wading, but there are days when I want to stay in the boat. There are also a lot of good redfish spots that are too shallow for my current boat and have really soft bottoms. Death wades through knee deep mud aren't as much fun as they used to be. 

I think I've been in enough poling skiffs to be comfortable with the size and know what I'm giving up in terms of storage and comfort. My current boat (see avatar) is great for storage and comfort and will go shallower than you think if you know what you're doing. But it weighs about 2100 lbs and it's no fun pushing it off a sand bar by yourself. It will float in 9" with a very light load, but I'd have to be Mario Williams to pole it.

Any features that are must have's versus not worth the money? I was planning on a Power Pole, and either a foot controlled or remote controlled trolling motor.

Thanks much for the input. I'll be spending some quality time at the boat show.


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## Skinny Water

Are you keeping your current boat and getting a skiff for skinny water, or replacing your current boat?

I've owned a Hewes Redfish, a Hell's Bay Whipray and a Hell's Bay Glades Skiff. I currently run a Maverick HPX-T and a Gordon Waterman.

The Maverick fishes like a "bigger" boat than the Hell's Bays / Gordons / etc. It will also plane shallower and run shallower than my Gordon, and the center console is better for running long distances or open water. However, I don't think it tracks very well; I'm sure all the Maverick loyalists will tell you they track great, but the back end wants to slide around since the bottom is so flat.

The Gordon has a much cleaner cockpit (tiller steer), drafts less when poling, and is easier to pole. I mainly fish by myself from the Gordon, and it's easy to pole from the bow, and the open cockpit makes it easier to set up a fly rod with plenty of line out the tip and on the cockpit floor to make a quick shot after you stow the pushpole.

Either boat could fish 3 people, but it would be a little tight in the Gordon. Alot of people tell me the Gordon is tippier, but I don't notice it myself since I've been fishing out of small skiffs for so long.

I've never tried a powerpole (I'm afraid I might like it too much, and would have to buy 2 of them); I just use a stainless rod with an eyebolt on the end... it's about 5' long and I tie it off to the tower and can walk down the gunnel and stake the boat once I hook up. Sometimes if there are pods moving in a consistent direction I'll stake out and wait to intercept them, but I mainly use it to stop the boat while I land a fish, or to eat lunch. Some of the fly fishers I've talked to tell me the powerpole is too loud and slow, but other guys seem to really like it.

Trolling motors are a tough call since they clutter up the deck and add weight. I don't have one on the Gordon since I use it for redfishing, and don't want the weight or clutter. I have a 12-V system on my Maverick that uses the quick-release mount. If I'm going redfishing I take off the motor and remove the battery to save weight, and if I want the motor the next day I can put the motor and batter back in 3 or 4 minutes.

If you're only fishing West Bay I would consider a Maverick HPX-V also... it won't plane as shallow as the T, but you won't need that capability in West Galveston.


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## kenny

Oooh, I want to go help pick it out.......can I, can I, pleeeeese? :biggrin:


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## trashcanslam

I have a Ranger 169 Ghost that I use as my primary boat. I have had other boats in the past, this being the smallest boat I've ever owned. However, it is by far the most impressive boat I have ever owned. I went into the purchase not caring about the ride, I just assumed a bad ride is the price you pay for owning a boat that was capable on the flats. I will simply say that the ride is extremely impressive and I can cross the bay in most chop.

Fishing from the boat is exactly what I was looking for. It fishes two people great, three is uncomfortable but doable, however I fish by myself 70% of the time. I have a 24volt trolling motor, power pole and a good amount of gear and it drafts 7" with two people in the boat, less than six with no fuel and just by myself, I couldn't imagine needing the fish any shallower.

I live in Clear Lake and would be more than happy to take you out for a spin, my boat is at the beach house now but I'll bring it back up here around the first of the year. Send me a PM and we can go take a ride.


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## Gottagofishin

kenny said:


> Oooh, I want to go help pick it out.......can I, can I, pleeeeese? :biggrin:


I'd be honored to benefit from the wisdom of a shallow water afficienado (sp?) such as yourself. :wink:

I'd consider a FlatsCat but you can't sneak up on a deaf person wearing ear muffs in one of those. But if you want to give me the benefit of your skinny water experience, I'll meet you at the show one day.


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## Stuart

As far as must have stuff, that's really up to you. Here are some maybe not so obvious items for your consideration.

*R*od holders on platform. I didn't order and ended up adding later at more expense.

*L*ED lights. Mine has four in the cockpit and I wish I had some in the hatches.

*O*nboard charger. Wish I had one.

*F*ront casting platform. Two thumbs up. Doubles as a seat when trolling or drifting.

*T*rolling motor. I personally would stick with a hand control. Why? Because these things draft less than the motor can typically operate in. So I find myself often grabbing the rope and lifting my motor where it is almost out of the water to get through really shallow spots if I'm not poling.


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## hookguy

I have an Action Craft but would love to have this boat also..

http://www.rangerboats.com/staticImages/Power_Profile2.pdf,


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## MouletteRouge

About a year ago I purchased a used 169 Ghost...Best decision I ever made...Had to drive nearly to South Carolina to get it, but the money I saved was worth it... Fishes shallow, very dry, quiet when trolling or poling, very stable, and I would feel safe taking it outside of the jetties if I pick my days... I flyfish, wadefish, and fish primarily by myself... You just have to decide what you will primarily use the boat for. If you are strictly into poling really shallow water, and never make runs across open or questionable water, then a technical poling skiff is what you need... I think the two boat option is the route to go if money is not a problem.


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## Gottagofishin

MouletteRouge said:


> About a year ago I purchased a used 169 Ghost...Best decision I ever made...Had to drive nearly to South Carolina to get it, but the money I saved was worth it... Fishes shallow, very dry, quiet when trolling or poling, very stable, and I would feel safe taking it outside of the jetties if I pick my days... I flyfish, wadefish, and fish primarily by myself... You just have to decide what you will primarily use the boat for. If you are strictly into poling really shallow water, and never make runs across open or questionable water, then a technical poling skiff is what you need... I think the two boat option is the route to go if money is not a problem.


Storage is more of a problem than money. I don't have room for a second lift on my dock unless I rebuild the whole thing. That would add about 15K to the price of the boat.

Both my neighbors have liner style bay boats. I can always hitch a ride with one of them if I want to go out when it's rough.


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## kdumas

Look at SeaDek on the platform. It make a world of difference standing all day and stay with a dark shade, it doesn't show dirt as much.

Get the longest & lightest push pole you can afford. A Tibor pole caddy on the platform is great.


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## bslittle79

hookguy said:


> I have an Action Craft but would love to have this boat also..
> QUOTE]
> 
> My wife and I fished out of a 1720 Action Craft Flyfisher in Turks and Caicos fly fishing for Bonefish. We had to cross some pretty bad chop, nothing really bad but enough that I was suprised in the ride(maybe 2'ers).
> 
> Our guide poled us around for 4 hours straight and didn't seem to have a hard time doing it. It had a 115 Merc and with the trim tabs could jump up pretty shallow. It floated in 8-9" because we bottomed out trying to get to one back lake. We had to wait for the tide to come in and eventually made it back there.
> 
> It was a good wide platform, not a technical skiff, but not a heavy V bottom.


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## Skinny Water

The comment about the Action Craft made me think... in the Keys where guides have to run lots of open water and oceanside flats you see lots of Action Crafts, Dolphin Super Skiffs, and Maverick HPX-V's.

Alot of the "fly fishing" skiffs in Texas are designed for protected skinny water, but for Galveston I think the AC, Dolphin and HPX-V would be cool choices to check out.

http://www.actioncraft.com/our-boats/1720-flyfisher/index.shtml
http://www.dolphinboats.com/superskiff_pro16.php
http://www.maverickboats.com/maverick/boat_specs/mirage.htm


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## Gottagofishin

8" draft doesn't sound like much until you find cruising reds on a 6" deep flat. In East Galveston Bay, you are correct.

West Bay where I am can be a different story. Not a lot of wide open water, and more skinny flats than people not familiar with West Bay think.


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## Rick Kersey

Mt. Houston Marine will have a Maverick HPX-T at the Houston Boat Show next month. Come by and see it, please.

rk


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## flatshunter

*skiff*

Ditto that Rick, i have an 2004 hpx-t and will be glad to take anyone for a spin in it .............


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## Gottagofishin

I saw the HPX-T at the show today. That's a great looking boat and cheaper than I thought. The only other skiff I saw was the Ranger Ghost. It is also a great looking boat, but I really want a tunnel.

The Maverick was getting a lot of traffic. The only negatives I could find with it are lack of engine choices and the carpet lining the gunnels to protect the rods and reels. I'd prefer a synthetic that won't hold moisture. My boat sits in sling and I'm worried the carpet won't hold up.


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## munson

why no mention of the beavertail?


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## Gottagofishin

munson said:


> why no mention of the beavertail?


They didn't have one at the boat show.

Still very much interested in it, but I also wanted to look at the Maverick and the Ranger. I was hoping they would have a Sterling TR7 as well, but no such luck.


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## bslittle79

Gottagofishin said:


> I was hoping they would have a Sterling TR7 as well, but no such luck.


Head down to the Corpus Boat Show next weekend or at least call Rockport Marine and see if they will have one this year. They had one last year. Along with 4-5 Rangers and Kevin Shaw's Poling Skiff.

http://www.rockportmarineinc.com/
(361)729-7820


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## Bruce J

The usual choice of power on the Maverick HPX-T is a 70hp 2-stroke Yamaha, as on the boat show boat, or the 60hp 4-stroke Yamaha. More boats are sold with the 4-stroke these days, but the 70hp Yamaha is an extremely reliable and light weight motor for this boat. Maverick only rigs with Yamahas, but these are good choices for the boat. If you're really not a Yamaha fan for some reason, I believe you can order one bare and have it rigged separately.

The HPX-T in the boat show also has an optional live well console. Some prefer the conventional console which is quite a bit smaller overall, but has more storage.


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## Gottagofishin

Bruce J said:


> The usual choice of power on the Maverick HPX-T is a 70hp 2-stroke Yamaha, as on the boat show boat, or the 60hp 4-stroke Yamaha. More boats are sold with the 4-stroke these days, but the 70hp Yamaha is an extremely reliable and light weight motor for this boat. Maverick only rigs with Yamahas, but these are good choices for the boat. If you're really not a Yamaha fan for some reason, I believe you can order one bare and have it rigged separately.
> 
> The HPX-T in the boat show also has an optional live well console. Some prefer the conventional console which is quite a bit smaller overall, but has more storage.


Nothing against the Yammie. It just seems a shame to put such an ugly engine on such a beautiful boat. I know that seems silly, but that cowling needs a redesign.


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## Bruce J

Hey, I hope my boat didn't read that or she'll get her feelings hurt! I've got the 70hp 2-stroke and hadn't ever thought of it as ugly. But, now that you mention it, she's not quite as pretty as those curvy little 4-strokes.

The Yamahopper T60 4-stroke looks very good on the HPX-T. Although looks are important, particularly on a really pretty boat, these are really high performance/weight sensitive boats too. I don't think you can beat the power/performance/weight of the 70 2-stroke, and that won out for me.


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## Gottagofishin

I was really just kidding, but that 70 2 stroker is a little dated looking compared to an Etec or a Merc. It looks like a Tohatsu. 

If I get the Maverick, I'm sure I'll get the 70. I won't want the extra weight of a 4-stroke.


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## Hogheaven

Love what I got. Not a true technical Poling skiff but Itworks real well. I have very few complaints. If I were to upgrade though it would definatly be the Maverick.
The vantage point from atop the platforms is great.


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## let's go

I've run a Mitzi 17 tunnel for the last four years. I've also run a friend's Mav HPX 17 T on numerous occassions and I've got two buddies with Bevertails. I've spent hundreds of hours on these boats all over the Galveston area and other points further south.

I pole, troll, and drift out of all three. Each has it's own strengths and weaknesses, but I'd rank them this way overall.

#1 - Maverick - It really doesn't have any weaknesses other than those inherent in all small skiffs. That being big open water can be tough. Other than that the fit, finish, performance, etc is perfect. I really can't think of much I'd change on the current model. Dry and comfortable even in conditions you wouldn't expect it to be. Faster than my Mitzi with equal power. Also lighter than the Mitzi. Poles great, trolls great, very good stability, and quiet. All the important points of a fantastic poling skiff are covered with this boat.

#2 - Mitzi - It performs well, just doesn't have the wow factor of the Maverick and Beavertail. It is a bit rough around the edges in the fit and finish department. However, it does the job. Poles great, super quiet, solid stability. 

#3 - Beavertail - I hate to say this b/c I've got several good friends running them, but I wouldn't ever buy one. A very wet ride even in conditions where it shouldn't be. Does not have near the lateral stability of the other two. It is a very good looking boat. The fit and finish are nice, but the running performance has not impressed me. It poles great and and works fine with a trolling motor. 

I haven't run a Ranger, Sterling, or Hell's Bay so I can't really say much about them other than the HB and Sterling seem way overpriced. And the Ranger build quality bugs me. The wiring isn't as clean as the Maverick and I've seen some wavy hulls. I hear it is from their use of the expanding foam inside the hulls. Not sure, just an observation. 

So, all that said. If I were buying a skiff today I'd buy the Maverick HPX. As far as tunnel vs V it'd be a tough choice. I like the ability to run and pole shallower, but the increased speed of the V would be nice. For my style of fishing I'd likely lean towards the tunnel version.

Must haves??? The lightest push pole you can afford. A Stiffy hybrid would be my top choice. A Motorguide wireless trolling motor. You can't beat it for fishing alone. I enjoy standing on a poling platform and having the ability to manuever through the marsh with it.

And if you went the Mitzi or Beavertail route you really need to add a jack plate and trim tabs. I was told initially that the Mitzi was fine without tabs, but it sucks. IMO all of these little skiffs benifit from tabs. They are standard on the Maverick. Also, on the Maverick I found it interesting that a jack plate really isn't needed. Their transom set up is such that the motor is positioned correctly and you can only get maybe another inch or two using a plate. The added weight isn't worth that.

Hope that helps,
Capt Scott Null


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## Stuart

See, I don't consider my BT to be a wet ride at all. I've never ridden in the other boats mentioned, so I can't compare. I _will_ say that I spend a lot of time on a couple of the Florida boards and the BT is not talked about there as being a wet boat at all. And those guys don't hold any punches. Have I been in conditions where I've been sprayed? Yes Did I get soaked? No. I'm sitting on the edge of my boat with just a few inches of freeboard, so when you think about that aspect, it's pretty dang dry. The center console BT will be even drier. My average trip I stay completely dry and certainly in any wind that you would be poling in.


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## Gottagofishin

Nice summary Scott. That is informative. Although trim tabs are standard on the BT these days. 

I'll probably end up choosing between the BT B2 and Maverick HPX T. I haven't ridden in one. The fit and finish on the Maverick is exceptional though. 

I'll decide after test runs next month. Both are in my budget and it will come down to the one I feel is the best boat for my needs. All things being equal though, I won't mind saving 5 grand with the BT.

Thanks everyone for all the great input.


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## bslittle79

Gottagofishin said:


> I won't mind saving 5 grand with the BT.


Are you willing to post the prices on the two skiffs. I thought the BT would be more than 5 grand savings.


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## Gottagofishin

Your right, it's probably closer to 7k. I don't mind since BT pricing is on their web page and the Maverick HPXT at the Boat Show had a price on it so that's public knowledge.

The Maverick at the boatshow with the upgraded console, upgraded trailer and 70 HP Yammie is 34,500. I want the std console and std trailer which knocks about thirteen hundred off so a little over 33. Add another 2k for gps, trolling motor and a push pole making it 35. I can save another grand if I don't want a color, but I do.

A similalry equipped BT with a jackplate and the other goodies comes to about 27.


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## Bruce J

You've probably already got enough on your brain trying to make this decision, but here are a few more just for fun.

I'm a big Maverick supporter, and one of the great things about it is a very active company supported forum. It's a great source of information for maintaining or upgrading your boat, etc. The owners and management are also very active in the support. It's hard to imagine a more supportive boat company and community. It means a lot to me, maybe not for everyone. If you haven't already done so, check it out the forum at www.mcbboats.com

Another thought is if you've really decided on the Maverick but balk at the cost, I would really recommend getting a used one. Mine is 5 years old now and looks and fishes like it's brand new. There aren't many used ones for sale at any time in Texas, but they do pop up every now and then. Capt. Sally Moffett just sold her one year old guide boat with a Power Pole for something in the mid/upper 20's. You can usualy save some bucks and get some nice accessories for about the same as the BT price you mentioned. If you're willing to look in Florida, you'll have more choice and it's really a buyer's boat market over there right now.

Finally, and despite all the Maverick talk, you should also at least look at the Gordon. I fished on the Gordon 18 earlier this week and it's a very nice boat, comparable to the Maverick HPX-T in fit and finish and poling/running draft. It's got a rounder hull bottom so it's a bit more tender, but I also think the rides a little softer and the handling a little better because of it. I don't know the cost, but suspect it would be slightly more than the Maverick, especially since it needs a jackplate and hydraulic steering.

Happy shopping,
Bruce


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## Gottagofishin

Tom Gordon took over Hells Bay and renamed the company. They are pretty pricey. They make a great boat though.


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## bslittle79

Gottagofishin said:


> Tom Gordon took over Hells Bay and renamed the company. They are pretty pricey. They make a great boat though.


Tom Gordon bought the Waterman molds from Hells Bay(before they went out of business) and started remaking the Waterman from the original molds.

Hells Bay is back in business and on their own, and I don't think Mr. Gordon is part of their company. He owns Gordon Boatworks.

But then again I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night either.


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## Bruce J

You've got that exactly right, Brian, Holiday Inn Express or not.


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## Gottagofishin

bslittle79 said:


> Tom Gordon bought the Waterman molds from Hells Bay(before they went out of business) and started remaking the Waterman from the original molds.
> 
> Hells Bay is back in business and on their own, and I don't think Mr. Gordon is part of their company. He owns Gordon Boatworks.
> 
> But then again I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night either.


You may be right. The impression I got from the Gordon website was that it was the old Hells Bay company...



> Welcome to Gordon Boatworks, we are pleased to re-introduce the 16' and 18' Watermans formerly produced by Hell's Bay Boatworks


You're right though that Hell's Bay has an active website.


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## Rick Kersey

Bruce, made a good point, about resale value. HB, Gordon, and some others mentioned have had some/several manufacturer ownership changes. Are their warranty's stable, will they be honored after these changes ? ie: Bombardier acquiring OMC, leaving product owner with stipulated, reduced, or no warranty at all, as were some cases after Bombardier acquired OMC. These are prime examples that effect re saleability. 

Look in to the used market for Ranger skiffs. It's flooded.
Ranger has signed many teams, discounted their skiffs for FLW competition. There are so many year old tournament rags for sale at sacrifice price, it's ridiculous. Tournament pro's are having to come out of their own pocket, to meet their agreement's of funding their last years boat's. 

Ranger has failed to protect the resale market, for their retail customers.

Maverick resale remains at a premium. Returning more cent's per dollar of a buyers initial investment. Not to mention, the warranty is solid as a rock. Maverick is a 30 year old independent boat manufacturing company. I don't believe Maverick will be closing their doors due to insolvency, in the near, or distant future. 

Just a little more information to stew on.

Thanks
rk


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## surfsideperson

gotto go fisin, sounds like you need go get one of those all around poling skiffs. the does it all....kind. from what i can tell. most people here on this website dont do a whole lot of true, "poling". if you do , you will find that anyboat that is as heavy as some of the ones mentioned would take a toll on you after a couple of hours. No matter what people say, if you really want a "poling skiff", a true poling skiff, it needs to be less than 600 pounds fully loaded and rigged. how many boats can truly say that...........if you are in inches of water chasing reds with a fly, than most boats draft more than you think. Matter of fact, in my mind, 2 man poling skiff is the real deal....light, narrow, quiet, and empty inside maby a 30 hp. motor max. i only know a few companies making boats like that. good luck. just my two cents.


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## surfsideperson

dont mean to offend anyone, just my opinion.


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## Skinny Water

Tom Gordon left Hell's Bay and started his own company called Gordon Boatworks.

Hell's Bay was bought out of bankruptcy by another guy and they started back up.

Both are building boats, but when I bought my Gordon last year the 16' Gordon Waterman was a WHOLE lot less than the 16' Whipray!

_oops... didn't see the last page where you guys already covered this._


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## Stuart

You're right Justin, at least with me. I find myself not poling near as much as I envisioned when I bought my boat. No one particular reason, just a combination of things. For exmple, I thought I would travel with my skiff more than I did last year to places like the Laguna, Rockport or Port O. but in 2007 my boat never saw anything but Brazoria and Matagorda counties. Also, I pretty much have to fish when I have a chance. So if it's blowing pretty good or I'm by myself the pole stays at home. Sad isn't it? That's alright, I stilled enjoyed my skiff immensely last year.


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## Salty Dog

I was just the opposite. Once I got my skiff and got even more addicted to sight fishing that is all I wanted to do. The only wading I did last summer was in the surf and a couple morning wades waiting for the sun to get up so I could see. I even got kinda picky on days I'd fish based on wind and sun. 

The skiffs like I have are very versitile. They make super drift fishing boats. They are shallow, quiet and stable. They drift real well. Alot of the sight fishing I do is really controlled drift fishing setting up long drifts controlled with the pole when the wind is in a direction to benefit you.

I have had a blast with my skiff. No regrets. Lots of really affordable skiffs on the market now too. This is probably the least expensive way to get on the water when it comes to powerboats. Or it can be incredibly expensive depending on what tickles your fancy.


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## bslittle79

Salty Dog said:


> Or it can be incredibly expensive depending on what tickles your fancy.


Show us how you roll! You have one of the best, imo.

As for the true poling skiff. If you pole 100% of the time that 600lb or less skiff is the ticket. If you pole 20-50% of the time it might not be. Just my opinion.


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## Salty Dog

bslittle79 said:


> Show us how you roll! You have one of the best, imo.












I like it. I could be called biased though...

I am getting ready to sell mine and roll into a new one and I am having a tough time deciding if I'll stay with another Lostman side console or go with the Caiman tiller. I am sure leaning toward a Caiman.


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## bslittle79

Salty Dog said:


> I am sure leaning toward a Caiman.


I know you didn't...I'm right there with you on that one. With what's on the market, if I had a bay boat and choice of small skiff. That small skiff would probably be the Caiman.

I wish Devin would hurry up and pull the trigger on something.


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## Salty Dog

That is what I am planning to do. I'd like to buy a bigger boat as well. The Caiman is priced right. I could pay cash for one and then maybe buy a bigger boat to go with it. I'd like something offshore capable on good days for some offshore fly fishing/light tackle fishing.

I ended up finding I rarely ever fish more than 2 in the skiff. It is just more fun with two taking turns poling and fishing. I think boats like the Caiman are ideal 2 man boats. If I go that route I will go with a tiller for simplicity. Probably with a 50 Yam 2 stroke. Rig it clean and simple.


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## Stuart

The Caiman looks good and that 50 two smoke would be super light. (Only thing I second guess on how I set up my skiff)

Is the Caiman what Bleb is getting?


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## Salty Dog

Looks like that is what he is gonna go with. He is looking at the full meal deal, kevlar hull, etc. The whole enchilada. He doesn't do stuff half aced.


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## surfsideperson

i just saw the prototype of the gordon boat "ambush", and it looks awsome........any body who wants that true poling skiff i would put it up to any boat out there in the micro skifff market and poling market , it will be very hard to beat......


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## Bruce J

Bleb (Robert) sent me a note on the Maverick forum saying he's ordered a Caimen for delivery in March, as I recall. I've seen a few pics, but would like to see one in person. Looks like a nice boat.


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## Gottagofishin

Sorry to resurrect, but I have the okay from the warden to move forward. Can anyone tell me the price point on the Gordon Waterman 18?


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## Bruce J

Capt Billy Trimble in Aransas Pass operates a new Gordon 18. I'd suggest you book a day with him to check out the Gordon first hand and catch a bunch of redfish while you're at it. I don't know if he got some sort of guide deal on the boat, but he could give you some info about it.

http://www.trimbleflyfishing.com/billy.html


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## Stuart

Gottagofishin said:


> Sorry to resurrect, but I have the okay from the warden to move forward. Can anyone tell me the price point on the Gordon Waterman 18?


I can tell you it is not always what is (or used to be) on their website. I have an acquaintence (not a guide) that ended up paying substantially less than even what he was quoted due to probably several circumstances. You will just have to talk to them out there. That being said, I have heard that TG is pretty hard to get a hold of, so don't get discouraged. Gordon builds a really nice boat. I would expect you will pay in the upper 20s or low 30s and wait several months to get one. Keep us posted on what you decide on.


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## Gottagofishin

The BT is still up on the list, but I have to check out all the options. Like I said, money really isn't the issue, but what I respond to is value. If a BT is 95% as good as a Maverick HPX-T at 80% of the price, and quality is good on both then that is good value.

It's going to come down to test rides, pricing, and resale.


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## Stuart

ECC has the Caimen out and it looks pretty slick and comes in a tunnel. It's a tad smaller than what I like (BT is probably the smallest boat I would personally care to own.) As you know, there are several new, smaller skiffs out on the market. Caimen, Terrapin, Gordon Ambush to name a few. I haven't talked to Jim to see if the Beavertail BTX is going to be available in a tunnel. I would assume at some point it will be.


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## Stuart

There's a guy over on one of the Florida Boards that just ordered a Waterman 18. He's saying Gordon gave him a 4 to 5 month lead time. Knowing boat manufacturers, that probably means 6 to 7 months, but it is what it is.


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## Gottagofishin

I definitely don't want to go smaller than 18. Beavertailrep told me the BTX would be available with a tunnel.


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## Salty Dog

The Caiman isn't that small. It is 17'10" long by 61" wide. Not as wide as a B2, Waterman, Lostman, etc. It is ideal as a 2 man skiff but you can easily fish 3 in it. Course even in the wider Lostmen I personally prefer just fishing with me and a partner. I know the argument will be the wider boat is more stable but the flip side is the narrower boat will pole easier and is lighter. 

Just have to check 'em all out and see what fits.


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## AlanKulcak

looking foward to seeing what the btx is all about, i need to get a new boat already......


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## Saul T

Bruce J said:


> Capt Billy Trimble in Aransas Pass operates a new Gordon 18. I'd suggest you book a day with him to check out the Gordon first hand and catch a bunch of redfish while you're at it. I don't know if he got some sort of guide deal on the boat, but he could give you some info about it.
> 
> http://www.trimbleflyfishing.com/billy.html


Billy's running a new super skiff he is building. I'm pretty sure it floats on wet mud. Ask him to tell you about it.


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## dljones

I have owned a B2 for several years now and absolutely think the world of that boat. For what I do, it is perfect. However, keep in mind that a poling skiff is a highly specialized boat. I have owned or fished out of virtually every decent skiff out there and can tell you with certainty that the design qualities that provide for shallow draft and quiet, effective technical poling under the windy conditions we often face on the Texas coast reduce reasonable fishability under "big water" conditions and do not provide the storage space you are probably used to. Buy a skiff if you pole a boat for sight-fishing 80% of the time. If you have to cross extremely choppy, big bodies of water frequently and spend most of your time wading now, you may seriously wish to consider a standard bay boat. I live on the Upper Laguna Madre and don't really care if I ever catch a fish I did not sight cast to again, at least in-shore. Therefore, a skiff is perfect for me. I don't have to mess with bad chop on most days (I mean serious in-shore chop like you guys will experience on Galveston Bay or Sabine Lake) and don't wade if I can keep from it. Moreover, I don't mind poling friends around 95% of the time (you will find out what I am talking about when you buy a skiff, believe me), so a skiff fits me to a tee. I know a lot of "weekend warrior" types who want a boat that does it all and sight cast every so often in between drifting, trying to run offshore on good days and attempting to ferry four or five guys out per trip. I skiff ain't their boat and they have each regretted the purchase. Good luck and I hope it works out well for you. By the way, buy a tiller bow mount trolling motor with a removable dog-bone style mountain bracket that can be removed when you are going to be poling. Nothing catches line worse than a damned trolling motor. I only use mine when tarpon or snook fishing and the mount that attaches to the deck won't get in your way. I have a plug-in battery charger attached to the bulkhead for easy charging when the trip is over.


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## Gottagofishin

dljones,

Thanks for the post. I've had a 23' liner style boat for about 3 years now. It's been a good boat, but I fish by myself or with one other person most of the time and I usually find myself hopping out of the boat and wading in 6" of water and 2' of mud to get to them dadgum reds. I usually carry 2 rods, and a wade box when gear fishing, and two rods and a fly box that fits in my shirt pocket when fly fishing. So storage isn't an issue for me. I mostly fish West Galveston Bay, which I don't consider "Big Water" and spend most of my time in coves and back lakes. I've fished off a several technical poling skiffs on guided trips, so I know what they are and what they aren't.

What you describe sounds perfect to me. I'm currenty in the process of setting up a test ride on a Beavertail. Assuming everything checks out, I'll order a B2 the next day.


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## Bruce J

Saul, I'm way ahead of you. I fished with Billy on his microskiff, called the Big Easy. It's a custom made 21 foot (I think) "super canoe". It has a deck as you can see in the following picture, and he has it rigged with a 20hp 4-stroke Yamaha, which is plenty of motor for it.

It definitely floats in about 4" of water and we used every millimeter a few times during the day. As skinny as my HPX-T will float, this one needs about 2" less. I caught something in the neighborhood of 20 reds on fly that day with three going 9+ pounds. The Big Easy certainly passed my test for a fun boat.

DLJones hit the subject right on the head about poling skiffs. Grreat but conventional poling skiffs like the HPX-T, Gordon, Beavertail, etc. are highly specialized tools that aren't for everyone. Multiply that by 2 for a real microskiff like the Big Easy. It would be a fun second boat, but I wouldn't sell my Maverick to get one.


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## flatshunter

*micro*

You guys might want to check out Mavericks new micro skiff there are pics of it on there forum. They debut it at the miami BS.....


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## flatshunter

*pics*

Here are a few pics of mavericks new hpx micro skiff


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## Stuart

Yeah, I saw that on another forum. If you ever see a deal like that, buy it. One of the guys on another forum said he asked the MHP rep at the show if that would be the regular price and the rep just chuckled.


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## Gottagofishin

What's the length and width? Looks like an 18 in the pic, but that price is a good 13k less than the HPX-T. I wonder where they saved the money.


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## Stuart

Gottagofishin said:


> What's the length and width? Looks like an 18 in the pic, but that price is a good 13k less than the HPX-T. I wonder where they saved the money.


From what I gathered

LOA = 16' - 9"
Beam = 6' - 7"
18 gal fuel

I don't know where they saved the money. My guess is the non boat show special price will be higher, but who knows. MHP would put the hurt on a lot of comapnies, including Beavertail, ECC, Hells Bay etc... if that price holds.


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## Bruce J

I sure wish they had that available for the Houston show. Hard to tell by the pics how the hull is any different than the HPX-T or V. Apparently there's no tunnel, but I guess it has a flatter aft section than the V. With the full console, all the hatches/storage, it seems much more of a boat than what I think of a micro (tiller, few/no frills, etc). Sure would like to get an "up close and personal" view!


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## Gottagofishin

If that's an 18' boat and the price stays close to that, It's going to be hard not to buy one.


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## Salty Dog

If you look close it is showing the trailer as an option. So add some $ there. You can't see the "standard features" list so who knows what comes on it and what you'd want to add. Could total substantially more by the time you are done.


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## Gottagofishin

Salty Dog said:


> If you look close it is showing the trailer as an option. So add some $ there. You can't see the "standard features" list so who knows what comes on it and what you'd want to add. Could total substantially more by the time you are done.


I noticed that. Still, fully rigged and with a trailer you could still come in under 30.


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## flatshunter

*trailer*

Have em ship it to your dealer, im pretty sure you can buy a mcclain or sportsman trailer direct with a tax # for less than 2k


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## hamelt

Or you could make my wife happy and buy my Glades Skiff (see 2CF classifieds). Skinny Water and I have had some times on that boat.


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## Gottagofishin

Anyone have any experience with the Lake & Bay Predator 17-6? It looks like a nice boat, but there isn't a lot of information about the specs on their web site.

I bet it's fast for a skiff though.


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## munson

hamelt said:


> Or you could make my wife happy and buy my Glades Skiff (see 2CF classifieds). Skinny Water and I have had some times on that boat.


what kinda speed do you get outta that sled with that motor?


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## dljones

A Lake and Bay is actually a "go-fast" trout boat built on a bass boat platform rather than a skiff. The are very heavy and do not draft particularly shallow, renndering them rather ineffective as a technical poling skiff. Once on plane, they run on a pad and can exceed speeds of 70 miles per hour. If I were interested in running the ICW from the JFK causeway to Baffin on a daily basis, that would be the boat I would choose. If I was interested in a quiet boat capable of being poled in less than a foot of water, I would choose a poling skiff. No boat does it all...


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## JED

Here is mine.. It is a 18' Sailfish. It's more of a florida flats boat, but does just fine right here. It is fast, pretty dry and solid. It is not to bad to pole but I'm usually by myself hunting on foot most of the time. It has good visiblility in the water especially from the platform
If my primary interest was poling, I woundn't go any larger than 16' IMO.


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## kenny

Gottagofishin,
Buy a boat already! You remind me of me when I was shopping for a skiff.
I drove everyone crazy for a little more than a year before I found my Flatscat, and no it isn't a poling skiff. :smile:


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## Gottagofishin

kenny said:


> Gottagofishin,
> Buy a boat already! You remind me of me when I was shopping for a skiff.
> I drove everyone crazy for a little more than a year before I found my Flatscat, and no it isn't a poling skiff. :smile:


I've still got two months to go and I'll break your record. LMAO.

Seriously, Jim at Beavertail has a B2 tunnel as one of his show boats. He's working me up a price at a "discount". It will be at a show in LA next week and if the "discount" is good enough, I'll buy it. They'll just send it on to Houston after the show.

Once I get it, we can play follow the leader and see who gets stuck first.


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## Gottagofishin

dljones said:


> A Lake and Bay is actually a "go-fast" trout boat built on a bass boat platform rather than a skiff. The are very heavy and do not draft particularly shallow, renndering them rather ineffective as a technical poling skiff. Once on plane, they run on a pad and can exceed speeds of 70 miles per hour. If I were interested in running the ICW from the JFK causeway to Baffin on a daily basis, that would be the boat I would choose. If I was interested in a quiet boat capable of being poled in less than a foot of water, I would choose a poling skiff. No boat does it all...


I've fished off a Boca Grande and generally agree with what you said. We did fish in 10" of water with it though, so not bad. It was setup for poling

The Predator is the same length as a Maverick HPX (17' 9") and is billed as a poling skiff. Recommended HP is 90 - 115. I'm wondering what the weight and draft are.


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## bslittle79

Gottagofishin said:


> I've fished off a Boca Grande and generally agree with what you said. We did fish in 10" of water with it though, so not bad. It was setup for poling
> 
> The Predator is the same length as a Maverick HPX (17' 9") and is billed as a poling skiff. Recommended HP is 90 - 115. I'm wondering what the weight and draft are.


Have you called Lake and Bay on the new Predator. They have two hulls for the 17' Predator. One for speed and the other one for draft. The one for speed is rated up to a 125-135 and I don't think it's listed on their current website? The flat bottomed hull is the one rated 90-115. I've fished out of the yellow predator on the customer pictures page. It runs in the high 50's to low 60's with a tweeked 125. Hole shot is not great and you can see by the picture of the draft.


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## Stuart

Okay, Brian. Lets cut to the chase. What you got on the drawing board?


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## squidmotion

i've poled a few..... a mako 17 (too heavy) a mako flats boat (just right) a flat-bottomed aluminum jon boat (poled easily, but didn't track well, any wind, forget it), scooter style boat (impossible in my opinion) and of course my hewes 19 (might be a bit on the heavy side for poling to most, but for a 20ft boat, it poles like a dream to me)... mine is about as close to doing everything i like to do in a boat, for my style of fishing....

a boat with a bit of vee or a centered rib (hpx, tailfisher hewes) will always track straight on the pole, the smaller the machine the better (that maverick hpx 15 poles like a dream!) and the HB or BT skiffs are true technical poling skiffs, in my opinion....one of those, a buddy, and a graphite 21' hybrid pole, and you are in business..... want a livewell, runs across g-town bay, add another buddy, and you are better off in the hpx....or something similar. 

ranger banshee? don't even bother....

here is mine.... (bruce knows how i like to show photos!!!)


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## Stuart

A lappy :cheers:

Oh and I bet you that Skinnyme fellow might take issue with you on that Banshee remark :wink:


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## bslittle79

Stuart said:


> Okay, Brian. Lets cut to the chase. What you got on the drawing board?


I have plenty on the drawing board. But I don't have room to build a plug at the moment. Why don't you let me borrow your skiff for a few weeks. We could create a cool skiff. Generation 3 or something, jk.

Maybe when this industrial buzz ends in 5-10. maybe sooner, maybe never.


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## squidmotion

yep, a lappy!

we even have our own t-shirts now..... i did the design, a buddy in fla. is printing them!! 

i might be wrong about the banshee, and have not been on one (so i probably shouldn't even comment)...but i have spoken with two owners, and neither had many nice things to say about them..... things like not good for poling, wet, doesn't draft as advertised, weird layout, expensive, etc. one was looking to get rid of his asap!!


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## munson

wait, im confused...who is trying to buy a skiff?


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## Gottagofishin

I think I started this mess. The good news is I'm pulling the trigger on a Beavertail B2 tunnel tomorrow so this thread can finally die. LOL!

Kenny's record will survive.


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## munson

Gottagofishin said:


> I think I started this mess. The good news is I'm pulling the trigger on a Beavertail B2 tunnel tomorrow so this thread can finally die. LOL!
> 
> Kenny's record will survive.


it better not die till you post lots pf pics with a few details...i've been followin this thing for too long. I also feel that anyone who how contributed more than 1 post to this is due a ride on the boat. I also believe that I am the one who said "why dont you take a look at the beavertail", so therefore I get first dibs.


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## Stuart

Gottagofishin said:


> I think I started this mess. The good news is I'm pulling the trigger on a Beavertail B2 tunnel tomorrow so this thread can finally die. LOL!
> 
> Kenny's record will survive.


Sweet. Who is bringing it over?


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## dljones

I owned a banshee and it was a complete piece of junk. The hole shot was absolutely terrible since the bass boat engineers at Ranger decided to not include sponsons on the boat while placing virtually all the weight on the stern. I wound up placing an external aluminum fuel cell on the bulkhead and building a custom grab bar with cooler set to move weight and controls slightly forward. Still terrible hole shot. No real complaints about the poling draft or handling other than it seemed to slide a bit. 

Trust me on this one, you will much, much happier with the Beavertail. They are fantastic boats.


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## Gottagofishin

Stuart said:


> Sweet. Who is bringing it over?


Not sure.

I'm adding a couple of things like a powerpole and GPS, so it won't go to the LA show. It sounds like it is going to be the 3rd week of March when he has another boat coming down, which is fine. I have a lot going on between now and then, and the lift needs to be adjusted for a smaller boat.


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## Spec-Rig.006

Beavertail Skiffs will draft in less than 6" of water ... I've come up on plane in 6" ...


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## Stuart

Gottagofishin said:


> Not sure.
> 
> I'm adding a couple of things like a powerpole and GPS, so it won't go to the LA show. It sounds like it is going to be the 3rd week of March when he has another boat coming down, which is fine. I have a lot going on between now and then, and the lift needs to be adjusted for a smaller boat.


That's how mine came down, with another boat on their big trailer. Second most exciting delivery, behind the delivery of my twins. The boat is much cheaper


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## Salty Dog

Spec-Rig.006 said:


> Beavertail Skiffs will draft in less than 6" of water ... I've come up on plane in 6" ...


With what kind of motor?


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## captlee

the poling skiff that most of us are familiar with is the "florida style poling skiff, is
a bare bones skiff w/small motor and a push pole,also this style I think
originates from the carribean islands also as a inexpensive way to fish the
flats which is the original purpose of the poling skiff. probably the most
expensive and one of the origianl production skiffs is the hells bay model,
a bare bones super lite skiff the hewes and boats that are over 16-17ft are
more designed to handle a larger party 3+people especially for none flyfisher
people, remember that a poling skiff mostly used by folks who fish the back
water areas, flats and "shallow" water areas plus a pole can give less noise
in the water than the traditional trolling motor used by a lot folks using a
heavier larger boat. charter captains usually prefer a one on one and no more
than 2 clients on any given charter if they are poling as in traditional flyfishing
charters, as far as a boat that I can recommend is "Mitzi Skiff" to foot the bill for
a lite weight poling skiff I have used these boats when I guided in florida.
they use small motors and are super lite weight and you can now get them
w/options etc. they are built in florida in the north somewhere. captlee


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## Gottagofishin

munson said:


> it better not die till you post lots pf pics with a few details...i've been followin this thing for too long. *I also feel that anyone who how contributed more than 1 post to this is due a ride on the boat.* I also believe that I am the one who said "why dont you take a look at the beavertail", so therefore I get first dibs.


LOL! You won't all fit at once, but I'll be glad to give a ride to anyone who contributed more than one post to the discussion.


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## Gottagofishin

I got the MSO's in the mail today. The boat will be here Thursday. Woo Hoo!


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