# Deer die off in South Texas



## Johnny9 (Sep 7, 2005)

Talked to a friend who works on a ranch near Carizzo Springs and he said they are finding dead deer on their ranch from starvation. He said those high game fench ranches are finding trophy imported bucks dead and I asked are they insured. Does anyone one this board know and are your deer dieing as well?


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## Encinal (Jan 18, 2008)

Deer around where I am are fine... wouldn't suprise me if some places that didn't have water and weren't feeding would find a lot of dead deer...

Even in the best years we still find a few dead deer... that's just the way natural mortality goes.


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## bzrk180 (Jan 7, 2008)

There was an article in the local paper here talking about game ranches selling off their stock because they cant feed them due to the draught. The last cold snap we had reportedly killed a pretty good number of animals. Also, when you see the deer around here, they just done look very healthy. The last rain we had did some good but we are back to dust bowl conditions and I am concerned the fawn deaths are going to be significant this year.


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## BEER4BAIT (Jun 24, 2005)

Someone puts up a high fence and deer die of starvation...........man this is going to be a loooooooong thread.


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## deerdude2000 (Feb 17, 2006)

I'm high fenced in Freer and my deer look great my check book is thiner it's the low fence deer that are hurting 8\10 of an inch in 8 monthts none of the tanks have water and they have nothing to eat !!!


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## boom! (Jul 10, 2004)

Ranching is easy when you got water. Hill country high fenced and my animals look fine. We are humping a lot of feed and pumping a lot of water though.


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## ksk (Aug 9, 2008)

boomgoon said:


> Ranching is easy when you got water. Hill country high fenced and my animals look fine. We are humping a lot of feed and pumping a lot of water though.


You guys are fortunate to have had some rain.We in the brush have had very little and none since last August.We are humping the feed also.Because of the drought we cannot pump from the rivers to our tanks.Over all the deer are hanging in there.


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## boom! (Jul 10, 2004)

ksk said:


> You guys are fortunate to have had some rain.We in the brush have had very little and none since last August.We are humping the feed also.Because of the drought we cannot pump from the rivers to our tanks.Over all the deer are hanging in there.


We have had very little rain for the last 18 months, and less than an inch on this last spell. We do however have good wells and miles of pvc. I pray that you guys get some rain. :clover:


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## Pablo (May 21, 2004)

Every few years there is a die-off from anthrax, haven't heard of any this year. It's usually from Sabinal to the Sonora area. There was an older gentleman I knew that had a ranch leased around Knippa who lost some cattle to anthrax back in the 50's.


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## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

I've never heard of an anthrax dieoff in South Texas. We are real lucky because we got over 8"s last month west of Junction. I went thru there last month and everything was green and knee high.


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## ksk (Aug 9, 2008)

We also have miles of pvc with several breaks due to the heat in the last couple of weeks.We pray our wells don't go dry.


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## KIKO (Oct 24, 2006)

*Antrax in the Valley.*

The antrax that killed fed employees in the northeast was taken from a lab that was studying cow from in Rio Grade City, TX. Not sure what year the outbreak was.

quote=Haute Pursuit;2069431]I've never heard of an anthrax dieoff in South Texas. We are real lucky because we got over 8"s last month west of Junction. I went thru there last month and everything was green and knee high.[/quote]


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## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

KIKO said:


> The antrax that killed fed employees in the northeast was taken from a lab that was studying cow from in Rio Grade City, TX. Not sure what year the outbreak was.
> 
> quote=Haute Pursuit;2069431]I've never heard of an anthrax dieoff in South Texas. We are real lucky because we got over 8"s last month west of Junction. I went thru there last month and everything was green and knee high.


[/quote]

Never heard that before. Only place I have heard it coming from is in West Texas. A drought is usually associated with it.


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## sferg (May 26, 2004)

We had a die off at our Mexico lease in 06'. Sweltering heat of 113 degrees early in May while the deer were in the recovery stage from winter and not enough water or protein (food or source) to support body redevelopment or antler growth caused the die off there. Also if the imported deer are from the northern states such as Kansas, Oklahom or Illnois ect, that blood line is not resistant to some of the South Texas diseases. Blue tongue, for example, will kill a whole herd over night and the northern blood lines are not resistant to it. Our So tx deer are.


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## steverino (Mar 8, 2006)

*Whose Deer are They?*

I'm not trying to cause any controversy or stir the pot but if high fenced properties have starving deer and the statement made in the past that native Whitetail deer were the property of the State, then these ranches with high fences that did not allow these native animals to free range and they starve to death would in my mind be committing a crime against the State. Just my conclusion and dos centavos.


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## Spec-Rig.006 (Nov 2, 2007)

Oh lord ...


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## boom! (Jul 10, 2004)

steverino said:


> I'm not trying to cause any controversy or stir the pot but if high fenced properties have starving deer and the statement made in the past that native Whitetail deer were the property of the State, then these ranches with high fences that did not allow these native animals to free range and they starve to death would in my mind be committing a crime against the State. Just my conclusion and dos centavos.


If the crappy deer were on the _inside _of the high fences no one would have a problem with high fences. lol


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## steverino (Mar 8, 2006)

*High fences*

To each his own on high fences. Good fences make good neighbors. I have been told that when good deer are on the outside of a high fenced ranch some of these high fence ranch owners will cut their own fence. In some cases they close the cut with a "vee" turned inwards that will allow outside deer in but none of the inside deer out. I only shoot one Whitetail deer a year (by choice) so I really don't want to get into the high fence controversy.


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## Pablo (May 21, 2004)

> so I really don't want to get into the high fence controversy.


Then why bring it up? I don't think that was the purpose of this thread.


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## surfspeck (Jun 7, 2006)

The first decent rain we had this year was back in February and it was a long, slow cold rain with temperatures upper 30's lower 40's that lasted for almost 48 hours. It definately killed some animals in the hill country. The animals were already stressed due to the drought and the weak animals died from hypothermia.


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## justletmein (Feb 11, 2006)

It's not really a high fence debate, if animals are starving and locked up so that they cannot get out to roam for food that's some other type of debate. I had a lease that was high fenced and liked it, not a high dollar place but the fence was there and I'm all for the fences. Having said that if you can't feed and water your animals they need to be turned loose. Not that turning them loose will do much good anyway because the conditions are probably not any better outside the fence, just thinking theoretically I suppose.


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## Brute (Apr 29, 2009)

I am not against high fence... but if you high fence its your responsibilty to provide for the animals you imported or trapped. Zoos and other places that hold animals are held to standards and so should high fenced people.

You don't trap any animals (dogs, cats, deer, lions, hogs, monkeys, ect) and then starve them to death... period.

I have also heard of the anthrax getting bad during certain wearther conditions. We talked about it in a real estate class because Red McCombs sold a ranch he had and did not disclose that it was in an area that it could happen. He ended up having to buy the ranch back. I think they can spray some thing and kill or control it.


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## Brute (Apr 29, 2009)

justletmein said:


> Not that turning them loose will do much good anyway because the conditions are probably not any better outside the fence, just thinking theoretically I suppose.


Animals will find water and food that you and I would never know about. Put a tracking system on an animal and you will find every natural spring around.


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## justletmein (Feb 11, 2006)

Brute said:


> Animals will find water and food that you and I would never know about. Put a tracking system on an animal and you will find every natural spring around.


At least they have a chance to fend for themselves, right?


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## boom! (Jul 10, 2004)

"I have been told that when good deer are on the outside of a high fenced ranch some of these high fence ranch owners will cut their own fence."

Steveo, I'm not laughing with you bro....
High fence operations don't want your deer and in fact tend to cull them when they do get in. Why spend the $$ to surround your place with high fence only to starve the animals and or swap spit with less desireable genetics?

On that one deer per year that you shoot, do you age it?


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## justletmein (Feb 11, 2006)

boomgoon said:


> Steveo, I'm not laughing with you bro....
> High fence operations don't want your deer and in fact tend to cull them when they do get in. Why spend the $$ to surround your place with high fence only to starve the animals and or swap spit with less desireable genetics?


I'm sure this is true for most places, but I've seen pictures on other forums of the contraptions just like he says. One pic had the regular fence line and about 10 yards behind it was the high fence with the one-way "trap" thingy to let the deer in but not out.


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## steverino (Mar 8, 2006)

*Boom*

The ranch with a high fence that I was referring to was one where the previous owner had put it up before he sold it and it was divided into smaller tracts. 
I am not very good at aging deer although I've seen the teeth models that help you with that. I try to take mature deer and bucks 8-points or better. At this point in my life I appreciate a nice buck with heavy, chocolate horns but don't need to hunt them with a vengance. I guess I enjoy the thrill of the hunt more than the kill and bragging rights.


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## M16 (May 28, 2008)

steverino said:


> I'm not trying to cause any controversy or stir the pot but if high fenced properties have starving deer and the statement made in the past that native Whitetail deer were the property of the State, then these ranches with high fences that did not allow these native animals to free range and they starve to death would in my mind be committing a crime against the State. Just my conclusion and dos centavos.


Since whitetail deer are the property of the state and I have them behind my high fence shouldn't the state be paying my protein and cottonseed bill. If they starve shouldn't the state be the one committing the crime?


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## igo320 (May 17, 2005)

If a free range deer dies of starvation then that's Mother Nature. If a captive deer dies of starvation then that is neglect.


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## justletmein (Feb 11, 2006)

M16 said:


> Since whitetail deer are the property of the state and I have them behind my high fence shouldn't the state be paying my protein and cottonseed bill. If they starve shouldn't the state be the one committing the crime?


haha, that's a funny twist but the answer is the one who locked them up would be responsible.


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## Joester (May 22, 2008)

Never heard that before. Only place I have heard it coming from is in West Texas. A drought is usually associated with it.[/quote]

Im certian it Swine Flu killing the deer....lol
Indian Creek just North of Del Rio we have been seeing lots of dead Mulees. Mostly Doe and very few Buck. Seems our deer here a much smaller than in the past....Sure hope we get some rain soon. :cloud:
Real tired of hauling water to the tanks. Turning into much much work!


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## Masked Duck (Nov 17, 2007)

This just in:

Scientist have found conclusive proof that the mortality for whitetail deer is 100%. For every deer that is born, you can expect to find it dead at some point in the future.


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## catchysumfishy (Jul 19, 2008)

bzrk180 said:


> There was an article in the local paper here talking about game ranches selling off their stock because they cant feed them due to the draught. The last cold snap we had reportedly killed a pretty good number of animals. Also, when you see the deer around here, they just done look very healthy. The last rain we had did some good but we are back to dust bowl conditions and I am concerned the fawn deaths are going to be significant this year.


Brad, you know anyone in your area that works on windmills? The leathers need to be replaced on ours then we will have water for our whole place!


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## ksk (Aug 9, 2008)

Where are you located?


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## catchysumfishy (Jul 19, 2008)

ksk said:


> Where are you located?


Bandera County , 3 miles west of Medina off 16 then 15 miles up 2107! Above the river about 3 miles out!


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## Hooked Up (May 23, 2004)

Masked Duck said:


> This just in:
> 
> Scientist have found conclusive proof that the mortality for whitetail deer is 100%. For every deer that is born, you can expect to find it dead at some point in the future.


LOL! Love it! Hard to argue with that. H/U


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## Johnny9 (Sep 7, 2005)

Again I ask you high fence deer growers are your trophy deer you imported insured?


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## boom! (Jul 10, 2004)

I haven't seen the "crab trap" type fences that you guys are talking about but they sound more like pens than ranches. I guess that there is abuse in everything these days, even game management.


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## ksk (Aug 9, 2008)

juan said:


> Again I ask you high fence deer growers are your trophy deer you imported insured?


First of all,one cannot import trophy bucks across state lines!! One can import the semen of trophy/northern bucks, but the deer itself cannot come across state lines [legally]. The semen is stored in commercial labs until the ranch is ready to IA their does.Like human semen that is stored,deer semen is tested for diseases before it is released for use.For more information on this subject got to texasdeerassociation.com. 
One can insure their breeder bucks/does but it's expensive and really does not cover a whole lot.I know of a ranch that checked and the insurance company they talked to said their insurance would only cover the deer being hit by lightning or drowning ! The ranch did not cover the buck. To go back to the original post about deer die off, I was in vets office in south Texas a couple weeks ago.The vet had done three autopsys on does where as all had died of pneumonia.He explained that the combination of extreme heat,high winds,and very little rain has built up a dust bowl in south Texas. The vet said the deer are getting pneumonia from the dust.Untll we start getting an substantial amount of rain doen south,we are probably going to hear about more deer dying.


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## Levelwind (Apr 15, 2005)

justletmein said:


> I'm sure this is true for most places, but I've seen pictures on other forums of the contraptions just like he says. One pic had the regular fence line and about 10 yards behind it was the high fence with the one-way "trap" thingy to let the deer in but not out.


I don't think "crab traps" are very common. Once a fence is up I don't think it's usual (but it's not unheard of) to entice deer in. That's done with massive feeding programs just before the last section of fence goes up. As far as managing genetics, pulease. Good deer get trapped outside the high fence and relocated every hour of every day of the year.


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## Brute (Apr 29, 2009)

Levelwind said:


> I don't think "crab traps" are very common. Once a fence is up I don't think it's usual (but it's not unheard of) to entice deer in. That's done with massive feeding programs just before the last section of fence goes up. As far as managing genetics, pulease. Good deer get trapped outside the high fence and relocated every hour of every day of the year.


That is the problem. I have seen these guys come in and buy ranches. The feed like crazy and start putting the fences up. Then once the fence was up they had pens built inside the ranch with automatic gates. They would trap as many deer as possible... kill the ones they don't want and turn the ones they do back out into the ranch.


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## Encinal (Jan 18, 2008)

Uh huh... like who...


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## Brute (Apr 29, 2009)

Encinal said:


> Uh huh... like who...


Let me guess... because you haven't seen it, it doesn't exist, right?:headknock


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## ksk (Aug 9, 2008)

Encinal said:


> Uh huh... like who...


Got to go along with you there Encinal.I'm not saying it couldn't happen but it would be tough something like that happening.The south Texas brush country is a small community,everyone knows or will find out what is going on,on the ranches.Both DMP's and breeding pens have to inspected annually by game wardens and biologist.Lots of folks have annual helo surveys.It does not take much to see what your neighbors are doing.


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## justletmein (Feb 11, 2006)

Those one way doors/gates are legal, can't do anything about them.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

*Lease pictures*

Got about 1/4 inch of rain Saturday. Big rain all around but as usual we got a little. Thats better than nothing and when I left this AM it was clouding up so maybe got lucky and got some more. Its funny I took pictures of the rain. I was so happy.


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## ksk (Aug 9, 2008)

Charlie next time you are down holler at me,you guys eat good.We got about a 1/2 east of you and 1/4 across the road from you all.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

*Saturday Pictures*

KSK will do.

Well these deer pictures were from Saturday. How do they look to yall ? Hi fenced.


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## Encinal (Jan 18, 2008)

Brute said:


> Let me guess... because you haven't seen it, it doesn't exist, right?:headknock


Nope... because the person saying it will give no evidence and is wand waving.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

I guess no one told yall but Hi Fences are to keep the deer OUT!! LOL

Charlie


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## ksk (Aug 9, 2008)

Charlie considering the dry conditions,the deer look to be in good shape.It will be interesting what the horns will look like this year.


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## Brute (Apr 29, 2009)

Encinal said:


> Nope... because the person saying it will give no evidence and is wand waving.


I got some cattle fenced in, why don't you come hunt those also. If you want I will feed them up real good and make sure they come right out in front of you before you come. How far do you like you shots? About 100yds? I will cube them every day right there for you.


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## deerdude2000 (Feb 17, 2006)

Got 2in in freer that should help !!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## FormerHR (May 21, 2004)

Got 2 8/10's in Refugio yesterday and 3/10's the day before. Feeders and tanks are both full, they ought to be living easy for the next few weeks.


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## Encinal (Jan 18, 2008)

Brute said:


> I got some cattle fenced in, why don't you come hunt those also. If you want I will feed them up real good and make sure they come right out in front of you before you come. How far do you like you shots? About 100yds? I will cube them every day right there for you.


So you admit that the first post you made was a lie... that you know no one that is doing what you said and that your entire purpose was to promote "your ethics" in hunting?



Brute said:


> That is the problem. I have seen these guys come in and buy ranches. The feed like crazy and start putting the fences up. Then once the fence was up they had pens built inside the ranch with automatic gates. They would trap as many deer as possible... kill the ones they don't want and turn the ones they do back out into the ranch.


What guys Brute?:fireworks


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## FREON (Jun 14, 2005)

igo320 said:


> If a free range deer dies of starvation then that's Mother Nature. If a captive deer dies of starvation then that is neglect.


 Berry well said Cornfushus :spineyes:


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## deerdude2000 (Feb 17, 2006)

Encinal said:


> So you admit that the first post you made was a lie... that you know no one that is doing what you said and that your entire purpose was to promote "your ethics" in hunting?
> 
> What guys Brute?:fireworks


I'm with Encinal been around high fenced ranches for 30 years buying selling and owning and never heard of that and i'd like the blue print on those auto gates !!!!!


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## justletmein (Feb 11, 2006)

I realize it's not common here, most of our HF places in TX are well managed and well run ranches but the bad ones do exist. Here's what the one-way gate looks like, there was a larger and more easily traveled trap/gate thingy a guy posted up on TBH about a year ago that his neighboring land owner installed and he took a picture of it but I can't find it.


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## justletmein (Feb 11, 2006)

Here's another one, still can't find the one I saw before.


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## shepco (Dec 8, 2004)

Did all of freer get rain or part of it hope it rained all the way down 16


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## CCducker (Nov 21, 2008)

Dang I cant believe those are legal if anything like that appeared around one our properties it would get welded shut quick with the simple explanation "i thought you forgot to patch the hole in the fence". ha!


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