# Ruger 22-250 all over the place...???



## physhstyx

I thought I would post up my aggrivation here and ask for some input. Today I went to the range with my new (to me) Ruger M77 22-250 varmit rifle 24" heavy barrel. since this was the first time out with this rifle I chose Hornady Superformance varmit 50gr ballistic tip. I have good glass on the rifle (Nikon) and I bore sighted the rifle before shooting. 
I started at 50 yds and it was all over the place. a 4 shot group was 18" to 20" inches apart. I let the barrel cool between each 4 shot group and no change. This thing shot worse than a mini 14 with a hot barrel.  I shot out to 100 yds and the group stayed the same maybe 24" apart now. 

Now before you start in on me, I can shoot above average and my 308, and my Ruger 10/22 shot just fine today. I got enough of that from my son and buddies. :biggrin:

Soooooo what are your thoughts, ideas, suggestions etc.. could this ammo be that bad in this gun that it would do this? Is the 50gr to light? 

I now have some empty brass, so I am going to load some different bullets and powder. Any suggestions.

I have already been told by my shooting bud it's because it says Ruger on the side. ???

Help...:help:

Larry


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## Scout177

I assume you checked the screws on your scope and rings? Could be the bedding on the action or barrel. If the barrel isn't free floating the heated barrel pushing on the bedding could throw it off. I have seen ammo in very hot conditions prior to loading in the gun get erratic especially after loading in a hot gun. Also the throat could be reamed too deep allowing too much jump before making contact with the lands or it could be be too short causing a pressure problem.


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## Bottomsup

physhstyx said:


> I thought I would post up my aggrivation here and ask for some input. Today I went to the range with my new (to me) Ruger M77 22-250 varmit rifle 24" heavy barrel. since this was the first time out with this rifle I chose Hornady Superformance varmit 50gr ballistic tip. I have good glass on the rifle (Nikon) and I bore sighted the rifle before shooting.
> I started at 50 yds and it was all over the place. a 4 shot group was 18" to 20" inches apart. I let the barrel cool between each 4 shot group and no change. This thing shot worse than a mini 14 with a hot barrel.  I shot out to 100 yds and the group stayed the same maybe 24" apart now.
> 
> Now before you start in on me, I can shoot above average and my 308, and my Ruger 10/22 shot just fine today. I got enough of that from my son and buddies. :biggrin:
> 
> Soooooo what are your thoughts, ideas, suggestions etc.. could this ammo be that bad in this gun that it would do this? Is the 50gr to light?
> 
> I now have some empty brass, so I am going to load some different bullets and powder. Any suggestions.
> 
> I have already been told by my shooting bud it's because it says Ruger on the side. ???
> 
> Help...:help:
> 
> Larry


Come on man I have a shotgun that will shoot that good. Something in your optic set up must be out of whack or the barrel is so copper fowled nothing will shoot right.


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## Bottomsup

At 50 yards the bedding and barrel floating aint going to cause those poor groups. Either your scope is bad or the mounting setup is bad. You could sight down the barrel and get better groups at 50 yards.


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## RB II

When I read the title I thought, wonder is he is shooting Hornady superformance!!!!!! I have a 7 mag that wouldn't shoot an 8" group with that ammo. Shoots about 1/2" groups with hand loads. I say change ammo.


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## physhstyx

Barrel is floated well, bedding I'm not sure about. I did check the scope mounts, more than once. Each group shot was with a cold barrel. I am going to try different ammo first, easy things first. If that doesn't work then I will change the scope. I don't think that's the problem. I was planning on a Boyds stock anyway but wanted to see how it shot first. I have NEVER had a gun do this. 
Arggggggg

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## Bottomsup

I dont know how any ammo brand could squeeze a slug down a barrel and get those groups at 50 yards. Something more going on than ammo choice.


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## physhstyx

I agree I could shoot better groups with my 45 at 50 yds. I am going to change the rings and check the scope before next outing. 

I was just curious since this is such a high velocity round if its just finicky?

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## poco jim

I assume you checked the screws on your scope and rings?

Exactly my thought!


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## deleonl

*Could be several things*

Man first thing I would do is switch ammo and see what it does. In Texas City T's ammo usually has some pretty solid ammo. I have heard that there are some Rugers that will not shoot but i'd try a few different things before i got rid of it. If your gonna reload some of your own I'd make sure the bullett is touching the rifling which makes a world of difference. I'm shooting a Berger 55grn varmit FB match bullett with a COAL of 2.547 which is really long but is what my gun requires. I'm dropping 33.5 grns of IMR 4320 and she shoots a dime at 100yds hope this helps.:texasflag


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## CHARLIE

Gun new to you. Ok now for the question, history on the gun.. May not be but the barrel may be shot out..


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## poco jim

Good catch Charlie, I read it as new and then went back and re-read. Very well could be.


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## physhstyx

CHARLIE said:


> Gun new to you. Ok now for the question, history on the gun.. May not be but the barrel may be shot out..


Yeah Charlie
That has crossed my mind. I looked it over pretty close before I bought it.

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## deckh

My 2 cents--CLEAN out the fouling 'til the barrel shines inside. Check for the correct torque on the stock/action screws.


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## CHARLIE

Sounds as the barrel is fouled or shot out. I know it could be other problems but I would get me some good copper remover and go to work on the barrel. Someone sold that gun for a reason. Jus sayin..


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## coogerpop

The VERY first thing to do.....is clean the barrel....if it is new to you ,there is no telling how long it has been since the barrel was really cleaned.....I mean really srrubbed with a copper cleaner and a brush....I'd work it till the copper cleaner patches were snow white...then start with the base....loctite the screws....put the rings in place ...AND LAP THEM IN.....then take a proven scope and properly torque it in place....and then back to the range ....I had a 7-08 that HATED the hornaday ammo...scattered it like a mad woman's sxxx....didn't like most of my proven handloads either,but when I found the right mixture ,it gave me 1-1/2 in 5 shot groups at 100 yards...what I was looking for...


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## woods

Take an old panty hose (your wife's I hope :biggrin and run it around your crown and see if it snags or take to a gunsmith and have it recrowned.

Once I had a muzzle brake installed where the bullet was hitting but it still shot better than that!


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## rmorgan9718

first take some bronze wool wrapped around a standard brush and really clean the bore. then, you might try pulling a couple of bullets from these, and then reseating them just off the lands. that'll tell you if its the bullets or the way they are assembled in to the brass. also, use dental floss, and check barrel/stock clearance after first shot.

my $0.02 worth
rick


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## physhstyx

CHARLIE said:


> Sounds as the barrel is fouled or shot out. I know it could be other problems but I would get me some good copper remover and go to work on the barrel. Someone sold that gun for a reason. Jus sayin..


Charlie how can I check the bore?

I guess the saying goes... "Caveat Emptor"

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## B-Money

Unless the bullets are tumbling (keyhole), then something is adrift in the optics or scope mounting.


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## TXDRAKE

If all else fails have Matchgrade or Hill Country do an accurizing job and they will find the problem.


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## CHARLIE

Well to check the bore the first thing would be to take a good look at it. It should be clean and shiny no bumps or anything like that. Then to really be sure it should go to a competent gunsmith. Crown could be screwed up too. But first take a good look down the barrel looking for anything that doesent look clean and shiny. Nothing that looks like maybe rust spots or flakes. Look at the crown with a magnifying glass and look for something abnormal, like would catch cotton . I think I would take it to a good gunsmith..


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## physhstyx

*.*

Bore and crown look good and I cleaned the **** out of it. It wasn't very dirty as I only shot a box & half through it. I have a new set of rings and I am going to reinstall the scope with the new rings. Scope was on another gun and shot well. I am headed out first of next week to shoot it again with different ammo. If it doesn't get any better it goes to the smelter.
Thanks for all the info, I will post up my results from the second round with the tweaks. 
Larry


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## Bottomsup

Even if the barrel was shot out where the rifling was gone and its now a smooth bore you should get better groups at 50 yards than that. I would almost lay down money the aiming set up is jacked up somehow.


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## B-Money

If all else fails, smack the hell out of it with a 10# mallet. Then you will know what is wrong with it.


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## physhstyx

Bobby Miller said:


> If all else fails, smack the hell out of it with a 10# mallet. Then you will know what is wrong with it.


Yeah if it don't shoot right after working on it I could always pull the barrel and use it for a stake out pole on my kayak. Heck it ain't even good for that.

Should have bought that Remington that was posted in the classifieds.
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## CHARLIE

More I think a bout it and how bad it is shooting I am with bottoms up. It has to be in the sighting arena, such as scope, mounts etc..


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## physhstyx

Thats what I suspected at first but the scope is a Nikon that just came off another gun and was shooting well. The rings were on the gun and I inspected them and they seem solid. Like I said I am changing the rings to a new set I have and I will be taking another scope with me next time I go. I will be trying the new ammo first.

Thanks guys for all the help.

Larry


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## Bottomsup

A lot of scopes if not most now are Chinese made including some very popular brands. It is not uncommon for one to have a loose lens or faulty adjustment set up. Could something as simple as a spring on a turret. I am not a Ruger fan at all but I just cant see how a gun that will fire safely can produce those groups at 50 yards. I can do better with a bow and probably better with a slingshot. Troy Aikman could probably do better with a football. LOL just saying. Please let us know what you find with your next outing.


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## CHARLIE

Scope


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## pg542

I have to agree with the idea of a big problem in the optics dept. A blowgun would group better than that, so unless it is EXTREMELY shot out, (not completely out of the question with a well used 22-250) I think I would check scope ring alignment, then do a test run with another scope, after properly torquing all mounts, then torquing all ring screws. I would not use Superformance ammo again until you've found the trouble, although I've never known 22-250's to be finicky, they are real screamers even with straight factory rounds. All is not lost if the trouble lies with the barrel (ie: eroded, shot out). If the rifling is still in good shape and all else has been checked/corrected, a good smith can ream your existing barrel and get more life out of it at much less cost than rebarreling. You lose some barrel length in this process but you aren't buying/bluing a new barrel either. Recrown it at the same time...just some thoughts....please let us know what you find.


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## Bottomsup

I dont think its a shot out barrel. I know of a 220 swift that had thousands of rounds down the bore and the throat was severely eroded. It still shot 1/4" groups at 100 yards all day long.


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## physhstyx

*.*

We will no Thursday. Headed back out after work with different ammo and a scope in hand just in case.

I will post up the results.


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## CHARLIE

If it has any iron sights on it remove the scope and shoot it. I bet it will shoot a hole at 25 yards.


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## Profish00

I have a rem 700 .270 did the same thing, leupold scope. Changed scope and it's fixed. It did work very well for years, then it was everywhere. I sent the scope back and they returned in as new condition( Acording to the note the sent back with it) but still had the same problem.


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## kanga69

Try hornady 55 grain V Max. With that said shooting that wild I personally think it is the gun. Could be shot out, copper fouled, or the crown bould be damaged from someone that doesnt know how to clean a gun. I wouldnt mess with it too much. If you spend a bunch of money on different ammo and such, you will end up further behind. There are a bunch of 22-250s out there that will shoot great.


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## Trouthunter

No time to read the whole thread but I have that same rifle and the load it likes the best is the Remington 55 grain soft point. I can cover 5 shots with a quarter shooting that off the shelf load.

So I've never loaded for this one 


TH


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## physhstyx

*argggg*

Ok went back out to the range on Thursday. I cleaned the gun thoroughly, removed the scope and inspected the rings and retorqued, leveled the scope and shot 3 diffetent loads.

1. 50gr Remington Premier accutip

2. 55gr Sierra match king

And the 50 grain Hornady Superformance

Target 1 the groups at the center of the target are loads 1 & 2. The key holes on this target and the second target exclusively are the 50 grain Superformance. *** ???

Bullet is definatly tumbling.

Much better but still puzzled about the bullet tumbling. Not ready to give up yet. Maybe barrel twist???

Larry


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## Trouthunter

> No time to read the whole thread but I have that same rifle and the load it likes the best is the Remington 55 grain soft point. I can cover 5 shots with a quarter shooting that off the shelf load.
> 
> So I've never loaded for this one


Humor me, spend 20 bucks and let me know how it shoots.

Also that rifle has a crowned muzzle. Make sure it doesn't have a burr or any problems at the muzzle.

TH


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## physhstyx

Trouthunter said:


> Humor me, spend 20 bucks and let me know how it shoots.
> 
> Also that rifle has a crowned muzzle. Make sure it doesn't have a burr or any problems at the muzzle.
> 
> TH


What is the twist rate on your barrel? Have you ever shot very light loads? I am thinking the problem lies in the twist of the barrel. I looked this gun up and it is offered (on the Ruger website ) with only a 1-14 twist. So it would seem the lighter bullets would be the ticket. I have not shot anything lighter than 50gr. What puzzles me is the 55gr shot the best. I don't think going up in bullet weight is the key although I did find some published data for 62gr and 70gr. OCL may be a problem though.

So I think the next trip is to experiment with a lighter bullet weight and see if the group tightens up. Once I get close I will start hand loading and tighten it up even more.

I'm on a mission now...lol

Larry


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## B-Money

Tumbling?? Be careful about throwing good money after bad. Maybe you can salvage the action. A gunsmith could advice.


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## CHARLIE

Tumbling, wow yes lighter bullets with 1X14 wuld help. I have a 223 with a 1X12 and it wont shoot worth a hoot. But tumbling, as above dont waste too much money..


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## Trouthunter

Larry did you try putting a playing card or two between the barrel and the forearm? 

The muzzle looks okay at the crown?

After talking with a gunsmith friend who said he'd never seen a Ruger heavy barrel varmint rifle not like .55 grain bullets, he wondered if you'd tried slowing down the velocity? I didn't know if you had tried the Remington .55 grains so I couldn't tell him if you had or not. 

You've probably tried all this but here is what he said.

Make sure you use a quality copper solvent and insure the barrel is clean. 

Run a patch from breech to muzzle and count the turns; to make sure of your rate of twist.

Be sure there are no burrs at the crown.

Smoke the bullet and chamber a round. Do the lands touch the bullet?

Those tips and the playing cards between barrel and forearm is all that he could offer me.

TH


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## Big Grouper

If you are tumbling 55 grain bullets, there is something wrong with your bore, plain and simple. You aren't even spinning the bullet. I have a 1:12 twist and it like 52 grain and will shoot really tight. 55grain open up to about an inch and a half at 100. anything heavier spreads all over up to your kind of spread as I go heavier. You are shooting higher velocity than my .223 so the 1:14 ought to behave kinda the same. The Keyhole is the main thing. If you are tumbling with that light of bullet, your rifling is copper fouled or gone. Bore scope it and check the rifling.


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## Bottomsup

Before you settle on tumbling check the target back board. Paper can tear funny and look like tumbling. I would use some 3m spray adhesive to stick the paper to a new backboard. If cleaning the barrel doesnt work which I dont think it will send the gun and your targets back to Ruger and tell them how dissatisfied you are with their product.


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## mrvmax

Bottomsup said:


> Before you settle on tumbling check the target back board. Paper can tear funny and look like tumbling. I would use some 3m spray adhesive to stick the paper to a new backboard. If cleaning the barrel doesnt work which I dont think it will send the gun and your targets back to Ruger and tell them how dissatisfied you are with their product.


I would just contact Ruger, they will give you a shipping tag to send it back. They will test fire it and determine the problem. I had an accuracy problem with a 22/45 pistol and the ended up replacing it. Ruger has the best customer service of any firearms manufacturer I have dealt with. They are in constant contact with you through the process. Stop wasting your time and call them.
Telephone: 603-865-2442


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## mgeistman

slow um down a little bit, i had that happen to me with my browning7mm mag.


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## LSU-DotsNspots

*22-250*

I experienced the same troubles with my rifle, I actually won my rifle in a CCA gun raffle, which is a Stevens, made by Savage, not the best, but a hell of a gun for $20 raffle ticket..... Me being the Hornady fan, I went stright for the 50gr Superformance as you did....all over the place for me as well. My Remington 25-06 loves the Hornady's, I can shoot quarters with a shelf load, I'm happy with that. But every gun is different as we know. I tried others and what what works best is Winchester 55gr Ballastic tips and what a difference, immediatly grouping.... now some fine tuning on a calm day and I'll for sure be sooting quarters.

Good Luck!!
LSU-DotsNspots
:texasflag:flag::brew:


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## CDHknives

Um, wow, 22-250 tumbling 50 grain bullets. Not good at all. Some good advice above, I'll add this one thought: Slowly run a tight patch down the barrel to feel for a tight spot. You may have something embedded in your bore.

No chance the barrel is mismarked? A grossly oversized bore or undersized bullet can do this (don't ask how I discovered that!)

I have one Ruger M77MKII, and it has visible reamer marks in the lands...and I still get 1.5" groups from it at 100 yards. I had to pillar bed, float, and firelap (the Tubbs kit) it, but I finally got there.


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## CoastalOutfitters

to the OP , i had the same prob w Hornady ballistic 22-250s in my browng a-bolt

the bullets are seated *really* deep in the case, so I blame it on bullet slap, they flat would not group and my handloads do fine.

I really like Hornady ammo and think this is an isolated prob w that cal. and bullet seat depth.


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## physhstyx

*Fixed the problem.*

Ok here is how I cured the problem with my Ruger 22-250.

I purchased a sweet Remington 700 VSSFII in 22-250 with H&S stock and a Zeiss 4.5x14x50.

I still plan on rebarreling the Ruger as I wouldn't feel right selling it.

Thanks for all the info guys.

Larry


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## CHARLIE

Hell of a deal there.. Congratulations.


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## WRsteveX

That's my old gun! Hope you like it. I had a .17 do the same thing as your ruger. Couldn't hit a paper plate at 50yds! Turns out, a bug or pice of sand or something had gotten into the barrel and I shot through it. My gunsmith cut 3" off the barrel, and re-crowned it. It's now. More accurate than it ever was.


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## rmorgan9718

*problem solved*

Larry,

Glad you got the 'problem' resolved. I'm a fan of most everything Remington, and you will enjoy it.

Best,
Rick Morgan


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