# Mud Boat Help



## JDM77 (Apr 4, 2009)

I am on information overload with researching mud boats. Through all my research I have narrowed it down on mud motors between GTR and GoDevil and either going with one of the matched boats or getting a custom built. The biggest thing I see on the motors is, how useful is the reverse. Logic says very important but the more I read the more the line blurs. I am looking at a boat sized in the 18' range with a 35hp surface drive. 

So I bring this to the 2Cool group to give me a hand. I mainly duck hunt in the Port A and Rockport area and such. Most of the time it would be just me and a buddy and sometimes our kiddos, dog and dekes. I also do a lot of sight casting to reds fly and conventional (depends on who I am fishing with. so with that information, does one of those set-ups work better than the other? I am aware that neither will do will in hard pack sand.


Caveat:
I have read all of the info hear and most on Mud Motor Talk and am left no closer to a final decision.


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## Brad Beaulieu (May 10, 2006)

It's very handy picking up decoys and docking. Other than that, you'll probably be able to get by without it. A push pole is cheap! It's nice to have though but think abuot if you'll use it enough to justify the cost.


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## wal1809 (May 27, 2005)

I am sure I will get dog piled for this. Never had, needed or wanted reverse on a mud boat. I have run mud rigs for nearly two decades, from long tails to a godevil SD now. Not one time did I ever say to myself "I wish I had reverse".

I am a fan of keep these motors simple and stupid. More bells to go jingle means the more bells that need fixing. If you are a backwater off the beaten path type of hunter, then keep it extremely simple. Buy something you have a good shot at fixing right then and there.


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## 3CK (Oct 5, 2010)

GTR hands down. Either on a Gator Tail Hull, or from a custom builder. (I have an Uncle J Custom)

I had a Go-Devil before my Gator Tail, and I will never go back to a motor with out Neutral, Trim, and Reverse.
I drive circles around Go-Devils on a frequent basis. (And PD, MB for that matter)

Not sure of your location but if you want to come test drive mine I'm located in League City.

Or there is a dealer in Bridge City that can give Demo rides. 

2 words. "Kool-AID"


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## Backwater1 (Apr 25, 2013)

Reverse is just like four wheel drive. You don't need it, until you NEED it.


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## wal1809 (May 27, 2005)

This is probably headed to Ford Chevy really quickly. Never needed reverse. Then again I am not one to go to the rallies saying "Hold my beer and let me see if I can make it through here". Just not my style. I am a simple person that likes simple easy to maintain equipment. The thought of an electric clutch in a marine environment just never appealed to me. 

Two seasons ago my friend was proud of his motor before the break down. I am not throwing the brand out there as it is not fair. We all have stories of break downs , be it Ford or Chevy. Anyhow we worked on his boat until after midnoght and we still were not able to get it fixed. The wiring (Clucth related) was rubbed through and shorting out in a control box mounted in front of the motor, at the base where the tiller attaches to the engine base. That was a freakin nightmare.

To be honest mud rigs are great for a whole lot of things, but no matter how you slice it they are slow when you put a load on them. When entire conversations revolve around high or low 20s MPH with or without a load, the boat is slow. Now that I bit off on the airboat I wish I would have done it 20 years ago.


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## Backwater1 (Apr 25, 2013)

On a low tide or under low water conditions, reverse helps you get back out the same way you came in. Its not easy to turn an 18' boat around in a 4' wide ditch.

Situations like that are really the only times I have seen the reverse be a great tool. But in those moments, it was well worth it.


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## MWP (Mar 30, 2005)

Backwater1 said:


> On a low tide or under low water conditions, reverse helps you get back out the same way you came in. Its not easy to turn an 18' boat around in a 4' wide ditch.
> 
> Situations like that are really the only times I have seen the reverse be a great tool. But in those moments, it was well worth it.


It's nice when your hands are cold and you miss that last decoy.


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## WATERWADER99 (May 21, 2013)

Im going to have to go with wal1809. I run a 16 ft 60 in bottom go devil and never had the need for reverse. It will turn around within the length of the boat.meaning 16ft circle. Im running a 35 hp vandguard surface drive. It has a removable duck blind,camo paint the whole works,i also use it for bowfishing, floundering, running lines in the river, fishing the back bays and never had a need for reverse. Just my expirence with a surface drive.


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## 3CK (Oct 5, 2010)

Test drive them all. Then decide.


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## calphil (Jan 17, 2011)

I gotta go with 3CK on this one .. I have a 25 GTR on order for numerous reasons.. Talk to some custom builders and they can rig you one to exactly to your likings .. 

And not to get into the MMT ******* match of which is better .. But I says it's best to have reverse and not need it .. 


Sent from... who cares..


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## Mojo281 (Sep 7, 2006)

I have a 36PD on a 18'x54" PD SBX, center console, remote hydro steering, hydro trim, hydro full power reverse... Love my rig and have killed countless ducks all over TX and LA using it, but have never really needed the reverse!! All mud motors have problems... It's the nature of putting a lawn mower engine into saltwater, even if claimed to be "marine grade"! The good thing is that they are cheap and easy to maintain. I have ran all of the rigs and each has it's own pros and cons.

You should meet up with some of these guys that are responding and wet test each one... Don't buy a rig bc guys on an Internet forum tell you it's the best!!


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## Logan (Aug 7, 2009)

thread HIJACK

ok. Im running a 23 LT on a riveted 1648. been a good boat with good speed but im starting to leak more and more.

I run mainly sloughs out into the bay where I hunt and fish, so with that in mind im trying to decide between a 1548 welded jon (same weight as what im running now) or a true mud boat.

im more interested in the speed factor. im never in strait soup mud, I just like the mud motor bc I can still get shallower than normal but also bc I can run over anything

interpret the word SPEED relatively


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## 3CK (Oct 5, 2010)

Logan said:


> thread HIJACK
> 
> ok. Im running a 23 LT on a riveted 1648. been a good boat with good speed but im starting to leak more and more.
> 
> ...


If you want speed a SD is the way to go over a long tail.
(but it is a mud motor so they are all slow... some just arent AS slow)

You will see noticable improvements going to a true mud hull, and speed will increase, despite the weight increase, but probably not a lot.


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## Mojo281 (Sep 7, 2006)

3CK said:


> If you want speed a SD is the way to go over a long tail.
> (but it is a mud motor so they are all slow... some just arent AS slow)
> 
> You will see noticable improvements going to a true mud hull, and speed will increase, despite the weight increase, but probably not a lot.


 X2... You really want a surface drive motor paired with a boat specifically designed for that motor... 17' x 54" mud boat seems to be the fasted hull when paired with most 35-36hp motors, but a 18' x 54" hull will run shallower due to greater displacement even though it weighs slightly more. Again, you need to find a balance between the pros and cons that works best for you!!

It's not about speed its about torque to the prop/bottom!! You can also look into mods to add hp to gain speed and torque...


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## TXDRAKE (Jun 24, 2004)

GTR Nough Said!!!


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## dc1502 (May 25, 2006)

I run a SWOMP 27 from Backwater Inc. and I will say that the surface drive motors are faster but for my needs they just don't get the job done. I have been running the 27 for 2 years and have explored tons of marsh and have had zero problems. I don't run the muddy rivers much ,I live in Freeport and have tons of shell and quite a bit of mud/clay/sand. Last teal season we saw two diff. surface drive motors stuck on bottoms that we ran right over ,a lot of variables that cause problems for both LT and SD motors but I am happy with my rig. www.backwaterinc.com check em' out.


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## gnspeed (Jan 31, 2012)

Good luck on your search,i would recommend Uncle j or gator traxx with gatortail or mud buddy.If your in north Houston shoot me a pm and ill take you out on a g trax with a mud buddy on a 18x50.


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## kanga69 (Mar 17, 2011)

Running 1860 go devil, 35 hp surface drive. I can turn the motor all the way one way or the other and make the boat go backwards. Never needed it. One more feature I am glad I didnt pay for. Go devil is one tough boat, as I am sure most may be. I have run in and knocked over some good sized trees in flooded marsh. That dam boat will go anywhere!


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## calphil (Jan 17, 2011)

3CK mentioned he runs a Uncle J custom boat ,, I wanna throw in the name WC Custom boats up in Tyler .. Builds a **** fine rig .. As soon as mine is done ill post up some pics .. 


Sent from... who cares..


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## 3CK (Oct 5, 2010)

calphil said:


> 3CK mentioned he runs a Uncle J custom boat ,, I wanna throw in the name WC Custom boats up in Tyler .. Builds a **** fine rig .. As soon as mine is done ill post up some pics ..
> 
> Sent from... who cares..


X2. Pete makes some fine hulls.


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## dc1502 (May 25, 2006)

3CK said:


> X2. Pete makes some fine hulls.


Very true!!!!
This guy makes a nice boat.


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## Backwater1 (Apr 25, 2013)

Ol' Willett can't build no duck boat!




JK. He builds a sweet rig. Nice guy to boot. Hunted with him a time or two.


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## flatsmaster14 (Mar 25, 2011)

Get a gt or pd. don't listen to the ole "get a gd because they don't break down" I'd put money on you picking the gtr over the gd if you test drove both. 3CK Is having a party on the 6th, there will be every kind of mud boat/motor combo you can think of there. I made the mistake of buying a gd, sure you can get away with not having neutral or reverse. But once you use it there is no going back!!!!

And to y'all that think your gd will run I will gladly do circles around you in reverse lol


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## calphil (Jan 17, 2011)

flatsmaster14 said:


> Get a gt or pd. don't listen to the ole "get a gd because they don't break down" I'd put money on you picking the gtr over the gd if you test drove both. 3CK Is having a party on the 6th, there will be every kind of mud boat/motor combo you can think of there. I made the mistake of buying a gd, sure you can get away with not having neutral or reverse. But once you use it there is no going back!!!!
> 
> And to y'all that think your gd will run I will gladly do circles around you in reverse lol


Circles in reverse around people ?? Are you DDM lol .. Jk .. But yes GT or PD is the way to go

Sent from... who cares..


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## flatsmaster14 (Mar 25, 2011)

Nope CCC lol lets put it this way, I probably rode with 100-150 different mud boats this year, when everyone is in a bind reverse gets you out plain and simple! Although I've seen them all stuck, you can't argue that reverse doesn't help. You can turn a mud flat under your boat to a 1-2 foot ditch that a outboard could jump out of!


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## JDM77 (Apr 4, 2009)

Gents, 

Thanks for all the info, I definitely need to get in a few and finalize from there. I will be in the Sargent for the 4th holiday if anyone has one around there or if 3CK's party is anywhere close.


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## calphil (Jan 17, 2011)

this is true Flats... dig you a hole and your out and running again.. dont have to get out and push


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## Thepartsguy50 (Jun 2, 2009)

i have a 1842 southfork with a 35 mudbuddy, it runs 30mph with me alone in it and im a big guy this past hunting season there were 3 of us in the boat with guns, decoys shell bags , we were in deep water running 28.2 , thats pretty good considering my motor is stock except for the exhaust. i have friends that run the gtr motors ,i've seen some of them stuck and the reverse did no good , so its really all about what you have the need for , i been stuck a bunch of times but i still wouldnt get rid of my mb just to gain reverse, push poles are alot cheaper.


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## Backwater1 (Apr 25, 2013)

Say this cut is 60" wide. 300 yards long.

Greatest duck slough on the planet at the end.










Any mudmotor will get you in. Only motors with reverse will get you back out before lunch time.

Poling would take you all day.


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## wal1809 (May 27, 2005)

Here we go. Ford VS Chevy. The one that types the most wins. The one that says reverse, over and over and over and over and over again wins. 

If you use reverse that often, your doing it wrong in the first place.


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## calphil (Jan 17, 2011)

Backwater1 said:


> Say this cut is 60" wide. 300 yards long.
> 
> Greatest duck slough on the planet at the end.
> 
> ...


I think we should take a vote on best slough in the world .. Season is in about 5 months so when we going ?

Sent from... who cares..


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## Backwater1 (Apr 25, 2013)

wal1809 said:


> Here we go. Ford VS Chevy. The one that types the most wins. The one that says reverse, over and over and over and over and over again wins.
> 
> If you use reverse that often, your doing it wrong in the first place.


Not often, just when it counts. I at first thought it was something else to break, but the ProDrives are Full Power Reverse, and that is exactly what you get.

It's a little messy because its got so much power going seemingly the "wrong" way, but alot better than pushing. When you need it, you got it. Probably not a big deal on the coast on wide open mud flats. But in tight quarters is where it excels.

I've seen boats left at the ramp when all boats with reverse powered right out backwards until they reached enough open water to turn around.

Just another tool in the box of a waterfowler. If you choose not to use it, then so be it.


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## Marshman (Jul 24, 2008)

hmmmmm..... ya'll must not get over to Louisiana very much.

There are a few PD, a few MB, but the guys that hunt 60 days a year, are all running Go-Devils, not the fastest, has the least "features", no sexy marketing programs. Don't need them, they just work.

Has the least to break, short out or fail. Customer service is unmatched - Warren Coco, inventor and owner, has been known to stop by on his way home to help with any problem a owner has, first class folks. Can't say that with any of the other "dealers" we have dealt with, good luck getting help at all during duck season.

As far as turning around in tight areas, can't say that has ever been an issue, if there is enough moisture to hunt, theres enough to go in.

Mine is a 35SD on a 20ft x 48" boat. Can haul 4 guys plus dog and stuff, no worries.

FWIW, I have seen more issues with boats sinking from rain water ( left in water ) than anything. Pull it out on bank, or get a bilge pump installed that works automatically. Put a plastic cover made from an old drum over it, and spray every week or two with silicone spray.

One day..... I am going to rebuild one of these, with a fuel injected 103 inch Harley engine. WOn't need a bayou, just make one!


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## 3CK (Oct 5, 2010)

Again. Test drive them all. Then decide. 

Most people on here offering advice have only driven one brand (maybe two). Everyone tends to tote the brand they drive. (Including myself)


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## dc1502 (May 25, 2006)

Marshman said:


> hmmmmm..... ya'll must not get over to Louisiana very much.
> 
> There are a few PD, a few MB, but the guys that hunt 60 days a year, are all running Go-Devils, not the fastest, has the least "features", no sexy marketing programs. Don't need them, they just work.
> 
> ...


All that and you have to "BEND" the cav plate to get it dialed.............lol. I do agree that Coco is a great guy.


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## dc1502 (May 25, 2006)

flatsmaster14 said:


> Nope CCC lol lets put it this way, I probably rode with 100-150 different mud boats this year, when everyone is in a bind reverse gets you out plain and simple! Although I've seen them all stuck, you can't argue that reverse doesn't help. You can turn a mud flat under your boat to a 1-2 foot ditch that a outboard could jump out of!


 Reverse =one more thing to break.............lol


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## flatsmaster14 (Mar 25, 2011)

Marshman said:


> hmmmmm..... ya'll must not get over to Louisiana very much.
> 
> There are a few PD, a few MB, but the guys that hunt 60 days a year, are all running Go-Devils, not the fastest, has the least "features", no sexy marketing programs. Don't need them, they just work.
> 
> ...


This is what you don't need to listen too lol and the Harley thing has already been done buddy, on a long tail and gtr


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## flatsmaster14 (Mar 25, 2011)

dc1502 said:


> Reverse =one more thing to break.............lol


Go devil=carbon steel motor that rusts in half in a year lol


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## dc1502 (May 25, 2006)

flatsmaster14 said:


> Go devil=carbon steel motor that rusts in half in a year lol


 I agree !!!! Don't have one and never did.I am not a big fan of SD motors for the coast, but Coe Parker seems to do well with his. I hear a lot of talk about how well they perform but the truth is ......here in the salt , on the uppercoast with sand and shell I see more stuck SD motors being poled than being driven. Coe must be the exception but he has been running them since before they became popular maybe he knows something the others don't. Tell you what, you let me know how that reverse works when you shoaled up on some oyster beds or on a sand bar at the pass. A lot of it has to do with actually being able to run a boat period..............I still believe that complicating a simple motor with a bunch extra parts is going against the whole principle of a MM. When you truly need that reverse you did something wrong ..............Go forward and conquer not backwards retreating....................


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## dc1502 (May 25, 2006)

flatsmaster14 said:


> This is what you don't need to listen too lol and the Harley thing has already been done buddy, on a long tail and gtr


 The HARLEY longtail was sick !!!!!!! Harleys don't need rev.


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## flatsmaster14 (Mar 25, 2011)

dc1502 said:


> I agree !!!! Don't have one and never did.I am not a big fan of SD motors for the coast, but Coe Parker seems to do well with his. I hear a lot of talk about how well they perform but the truth is ......here in the salt , on the uppercoast with sand and shell I see more stuck SD motors being poled than being driven. Coe must be the exception but he has been running them since before they became popular maybe he knows something the others don't. Tell you what, you let me know how that reverse works when you shoaled up on some oyster beds or on a sand bar at the pass. A lot of it has to do with actually being able to run a boat period..............I still believe that complicating a simple motor with a bunch extra parts is going against the whole principle of a MM. When you truly need that reverse you did something wrong ..............Go forward and conquer not backwards retreating....................


Id have to take you on a ride for you to see the benefits. It's not only for getting unstuck. Instead of pushing off the dock when unloading the boat, use reverse. Instead of pushing off a bank, use reverse. It makes every thing easier. Froggin, crab/crawfish traps, running lines, picking up decoys, goin backwards through a trail your boat barly fits through. I could go on and on


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## flatsmaster14 (Mar 25, 2011)

dc1502 said:


> The HARLEY longtail was sick !!!!!!! Harleys don't need rev.


I see them pop up for sale a couple times a year for around 5000$ I think the run 30+ mph!!!


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## dc1502 (May 25, 2006)

The guy that built my motor is in that video.


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## flatsmaster14 (Mar 25, 2011)

I've never been in one but it looks quick! Are they very dependable?


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## dc1502 (May 25, 2006)

flatsmaster14 said:


> I've never been in one but it looks quick! Are they very dependable?


I am running a Backwater inc. LT . Very dependable ,been running it in the salt for two years w/out any problems ,minimal corrosion. All DOM tubing for the frame , 27 kohler on a 16 d/w hull. Being that we fish the skinny water a lot I opted to keep the hull as light as poss. The rig does everything I need it to I really have no complaints.


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## wcbillcollector (May 16, 2013)

I run a 18/60 with a 35 GD. I've hunted Rockport quite a bit, and would not recommend buying a MM rig specifically for down there. Alweld with about a 40 is what you need .....for down there.....hard bottom/ sand and new grass regulations will make you wish for an outboard rig. Plus down there you need to cover lots of area and a mm is just toooooo slow. 

T


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## ak (May 6, 2012)

Did you ask the question on MMT or just read the post? Get reverse if you can afford it. GTR is a good motor with stage two mods youll be running 28-30 range with a good size load load all day. I wouldn't exactly call that tooooooo slow. When I run my motor tilted up only half the prop touches the water and I stil run in the 24 mph range so Im not sure how an outboard would do less damage to the grass especially since it has to be lower to get water for cooling. But you would prolly be happy with a 16ft tunnel with a 40hp and jackplate to.


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## Marshman (Jul 24, 2008)

Flatsmaster - I am already aware of the long tail MM Harley. I wanted to make a SD, the belt system is more than robust enough for 100 HP. Haven't you ever built something like a hot rod, just because you could? No, wait, I see your age, ya'll don't still build things.....

OP, there is a post here that makes some sense, regarding using a 20' with a 40 outboard on it. I still have mine, it is for sure faster than a mud boat or godevil of any type. But in the SW LA marsh, when the north wind blows, you can get to your blind in plenty of water in the dark. An hour later, the water is hundreds of feet away, I only got stuck like that a couple times, and switched to the SD in midseason. I am on my second one now, sold the first to my lil brother, who is still running it, almost ten years later. Not so bad for carbon steel..... 

I still like running the outboard, but it uses more fuel, and can not get as shallow, ever. That is also a 20x48 hull, thinking it may become a flounder boat this year.


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## flatsmaster14 (Mar 25, 2011)

Marshman said:


> Flatsmaster - I am already aware of the long tail MM Harley. I wanted to make a SD, the belt system is more than robust enough for 100 HP. Haven't you ever built something like a hot rod, just because you could? No, wait, I see your age, ya'll don't still build things.....
> 
> OP, there is a post here that makes some sense, regarding using a 20' with a 40 outboard on it. I still have mine, it is for sure faster than a mud boat or godevil of any type. But in the SW LA marsh, when the north wind blows, you can get to your blind in plenty of water in the dark. An hour later, the water is hundreds of feet away, I only got stuck like that a couple times, and switched to the SD in midseason. I am on my second one now, sold the first to my lil brother, who is still running it, almost ten years later. Not so bad for carbon steel.....
> 
> I still like running the outboard, but it uses more fuel, and can not get as shallow, ever. That is also a 20x48 hull, thinking it may become a flounder boat this year.


I build the boat the mud motors on, and weld the pipe your crude oil runs in...., build **** every day.. And like I said if you would read, the Harley motor thing has already been done a couple times on a surface drive. Also seen a 150 mercury 2 stroke on a pro drive frame. I run a mud motor everyday.use it for everything pig/deer/frog hunting and fishing. Hell I ran it more than my tran cat. I've seen every brand stuck in every situation possible. And nothing can touch a gator tail. I don't even have a gt and ill admit that lol I run a pd


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## calphil (Jan 17, 2011)

Good point flats .. Nothing can touch the GTR .. 


Sent from... who cares..


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## dc1502 (May 25, 2006)

calphil said:


> Good point flats .. Nothing can touch the GTR ..
> 
> Sent from... who cares..


For an SD, GTR hands down...............for a LT, Backwater Inc. beats the heck out of any other mfg.


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## 3CK (Oct 5, 2010)

2013 GTR Promo Vid.


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## calphil (Jan 17, 2011)

dc1502 said:


> For an SD, GTR hands down...............for a LT, Backwater Inc. beats the heck out of any other mfg.


I would probably have to go for the original Go-devil if I was in the long tail market

Sent from... who cares..


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## calphil (Jan 17, 2011)

Well I'll soon have a custom and can take for a ride with the 25GTR









Sent from... who cares..


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## dc1502 (May 25, 2006)

calphil said:


> I would probably have to go for the original Go-devil if I was in the long tail market
> 
> Sent from... who cares..


No comparison ..............not even in the same league


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## dc1502 (May 25, 2006)

calphil said:


> Well I'll soon have a custom and can take for a ride with the 25GTR
> 
> View attachment 630108
> 
> ...


Is one of those mine?


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## Xpress89 (Dec 20, 2012)

I had one without reverse and it sux.... Get the GTR 35 and the 1854


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## calphil (Jan 17, 2011)

TTT ... JDM have you made a descisions on a new rig yet ?? 


Sent from... who cares..


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