# Some say..



## Seeker (Jul 6, 2009)

Jesus was not raised from the dead.

I disagree..

Luke 24 verses 36-53

Acts chapter 1 verse 11

First Corinthians chapter 15 verses 1 -23

Just to back it up. 

This is what I believe. Yes, he arose from the grave..

If you will continue to read on in the First book of Corinthians chapter 15 verses 12 -58 you can read about the resurrection body. Hmm.. yep.. it's pretty clear to me.


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## atcfisherman (Oct 5, 2006)

Yes Seeker, Jesus did rise form the grave. The bible is full of scriptures proving Jesus physically rose from the grave. If He did not, then death would have not been defeated. When he stood before Thomas, He told Thomas to feel His sides and hands proving that He did rise for the grave. He was seen physically by many before His ascension. People had to see Him physically to prove He conquered death. 


In Christ Alone I Place My Trust


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## DA REEL DADDY (Jun 7, 2005)

Amen.


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## JCIMS (Sep 1, 2013)

Thank you Jesus !!!


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## Seeker (Jul 6, 2009)

Amen..


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

He did rise from the grave as a spirit creature. He materialized in a human body that had not been his. Many of those disciples the had an intimate relationship with him did not recognize him physically.


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## Seeker (Jul 6, 2009)

What is a spirit creature? This is the first I have ever heard of the term "spirit creature".


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## bubbas kenner (Sep 4, 2010)

There are no truer words known to man under heaven.I can only imagine what we are to find out in heaven


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

What would you call the angels, cherubs, demons, God himself? Flesh and blood cannot enter the heavens.


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## Seeker (Jul 6, 2009)

Doubting Thomas would still be doubting if he didn't see a tangible hole in his hands and side. I will stick with what the bible says. If the witness group wants to have their own versions so be it. It has no influence on me. I was not meant to understand it. But I am blessed because I believe and I don't have to see. Small details such as this are so insignificant even though you want to make a point. Call it as you may. As you have been taught by whoever you have learned from. I'm not passing judgement. It's just not significant to me. I believe and that's all that matters.


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

It was meant to be understood, if not it would not have been included in the bible "for our benefit". I will reference an order that should help to explain it. It is hard to get the full meaning on an internet chat room. To help get the understanding, please go to your own copy of the bible and look up the referenced scriptures. I believe it will really help to get the true meaning.

Jesus Christâ€™s Fleshly Body. Jesus, who was â€œthe Wordâ€ of God, â€œout of heaven,â€ divested himself of spirit nature and â€œbecame flesh.â€ (Joh 1:1; 1Co 15:47; Php 2:5-8; Joh 1:14; 1Ti 3:16) That in being born as a human he was no spirit and that he did not merely assume a fleshly body, as angels had done in the past (Ge 18:1-3; 19:1; Jos 5:13-15), is attested to by the apostle John, who says that one is antichrist who denies that Jesus Christ came â€œin the flesh.â€ (1Jo 4:2,Â 3) In order to provide the ransom for mankind and thereby to help those who would be his associates in the heavenly calling, the Word became flesh, being born all human, no incarnation. The Bible tells us this: â€œSince the â€˜young childrenâ€™ are sharers of blood and flesh, he also similarly partook of the same things.â€ (Heb 2:14-16) His earthly sojourn was spoken of as â€œthe days of his flesh.â€ (Heb 5:7) â€œThe bread that I shall give is my flesh in behalf of the life of the world,â€ Jesus said. He went on to state that those hoping to remain in union with him must â€˜eat his flesh and drink his blood.â€™ Not appreciating the spiritual, symbolic significance of his words, some construed the statement as cannibalistic and were shocked.â€”Joh 6:50-60.
During Jesusâ€™ earthly ministry, although he knew that he would be put to death as the ransom sacrifice, his flesh â€˜rested in hope.â€™ This was because of his knowledge that his Father would resurrect him, that his sacrifice would successfully serve the ransom purpose, and that his flesh would not see corruption. (Ac 2:26,Â 31) Jehovah God evidently disposed of Jesusâ€™ fleshly body in his own way (possibly disintegrating it into the atoms of which it was constituted). (Lu 24:2, 3, 22,Â 23; Joh 20:2) Jesus did not take back his fleshly body and thereby cancel out the ransom for which it was given. The apostle Peter testifies that Christ went into heaven, the realm of spirits, not flesh, â€œhe being put to death in the flesh, but being made alive in the spirit.â€ (1Pe 3:18) Before his ascension to heaven Christ, as a mighty, immortal spirit person, did materialize various fleshly bodies to suit the occasion, for the purpose of giving to his disciples visible, palpable evidence of his resurrection.â€”Joh 20:13-17, 25-27; 21:1,Â 4; Lu 24:15,Â 16.
In Paulâ€™s letter to the Hebrews the curtain in the sanctuary before the Most Holy, which represented heaven itself, is shown to have been symbolic, representing Jesusâ€™ flesh, for before he sacrificed his fleshly body, the way to life in heaven was not open.â€”Heb 9:24; 10:19,Â 20.


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## atcfisherman (Oct 5, 2006)

He rose from the grace in his body. This was to prove to others that he was the savior. 

Matthew 20:18-19
"Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem; and the Son of Man will be delivered to the chief priests and scribes, and they will condemn Him to death, and will deliver Him to the Gentiles to mock and scourge and crucify Him, and on the third day He will be raised up."

Mark 9:9
And as they were coming down from the mountain, He gave them orders not to relate to anyone what they had seen, until the Son of Man should rise from the dead.

Mark 16:6
And he said to them, "Do not be amazed; you are looking for Jesus the Nazarene, who has been crucified. He has risen; He is not here; behold, here is the place where they laid Him. 

John 20:27
27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

See, Jesus had to raise physically to prove that he was the savior and had the power to defeat death. Thomas even touched him. Nowhere in scripture does it say that Jesus rose as a spirit creature. It clearly states he rose physically. 




In Christ Alone I Place My Trust


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## atcfisherman (Oct 5, 2006)

Long read, but proof in the pudding.

First, Jesus was raised with a glorified physical body. The Lord appeared to His disciples on the night of the resurrection and invited them with these words: "See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have" (Luke 24:39). Jesusâ€™ resurrection body had "flesh" and "bones" and He specifically said that He was not a "spirit." He proved the nature of His body by asking, "Have you anything here to eat?" The record then states: "They gave Him a piece of a broiled fish; and He took it and ate it before them" (vv. 41-43). When Peter preached to the household of Cornelius, he said that Jesus had appeared to chosen witnesses "who ate and drank with Him after He arose from the dead" (Acts 10:41) (See also Luke 24:30; John 21:12,13.) Christâ€™s resurrection body was capable of physical functions, although apparently not needing physical sustenance.

Our Lord had a body that could be touched and handled. When He appeared to Mary Magdalene in the Garden, this devoted woman touched Him and He replied, "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father"(John 20:17). When the women were on their way to tell the disciples about the empty tomb, Jesus met them on the way. The record says that "they came up and took hold of His feet and worshipped Him" (Matt. 28:9). John the apostle says, "We have looked at and touched with our hands" (1 John 1:1). Christâ€™s body was not immaterial. While this glorified body could appear and disappear at will (cf. Luke 24:31, 36; John 20:19, 26), when Jesus did appear, His body could be seen, felt, and touched.

Second, Jesus appeared in the same body in which He died. God did not have to recreate His body; He simply resurrected the same body. The description of the resurrection scene makes it clear that Christâ€™s own body that had been wrapped in the burial clothes had been raised to life (cf. Luke 24:12; John 20:4-9). Paul refers to "the body of His glory" (Phil. 3:21), but this glorified body was still Christâ€™s body, the body that was crucified for our sins. When Jesus cleansed the temple at the beginning of His ministry, He affirmed, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up" (John 2:19). John then explains, "He was speaking of the temple of His body" (v. 21). Jesus, in effect, says that if the Jews "destroy" the temple of His body through crucifixion, He will raise "it" (His body) up. He will resurrect His body from the grave! He makes a similar argument at John 10:17-18. The very body that Jesus offered up for our sins would be laid in a tomb and would come forth from that tomb as a resurrected, glorified body. The idea that God "removed" Jesusâ€™ body from the tomb and disposed of it or the idea that Jesusâ€™ body "dissolved into gasses" or is "preserved" somewhere on earth is a clear denial of the bodily resurrection of the Son of God!

It is clear that Jesusâ€™ appeared in the same body in which He died. He told Thomas, "Reach here with your finger, and see My hands; and reach here your hand and put it into My side; and do not be unbelieving, but believing"(John 20:27; cf. vv. 24-26; Luke 24:39). The apostles saw the very wound marks in Jesusâ€™ bodyâ€"testifying to the fact that Jesus Himself was standing before them with the same body in which He died. John the apostle later wrote of "what we have seen with our eyes, what we have looked at and touched with our hands, concerning the Word of Life" (1 John 1:1). Jesus was no mere spiritual, immaterial being, but could show His disciples His bodily wounds.

Third, Jesus was raised as a man. It is quite clear that Jesus continues to be a man, a human being (while also existing as deity). Paul says, "There is one God, and one mediator also between God and man, the man Christ Jesus" (1 Timothy 2:5). Jesus is called "the second man" (1 Cor. 15:47). He further says, "Since by a man [Adam] came death, by a man [Christ] also came the resurrection of the dead" (15:21). In vision, John the apostle saw "one like a son of man, clothed in a robe reaching to the feet," an obvious reference to Christ Jesus (Rev. 1:13). The Lord Jesus was born as a man and will continue as a man through all eternity. The does not deny the fact that He "was declared the Son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead" (Rom. 1:4).

Fourth, Jesus ascended to heaven in His resurrection body. Not only did Jesus rise from the dead in the same crucified body, but He ascended to the Father in heaven with that same glorified body. Luke says that Jesus led His disciples as far as Bethany, and "He lifted up His hands and blessed them. While He was blessing them, He parted from them and was carried up into heaven" (24:50-51; cf. Mark 16:19). The same scene is given in Acts 1. After Jesus spoke to them, "He was lifted up while they were looking on, and a cloud received Him out of their sight" (v. 9). The same Jesus, in bodily form, will one day return for His own. The angels told the disciples, "This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven" (v. 11). Christ was resurrected in a glorified human body, He ascended to heaven with that same body, and He will return one day with the same glorified body!

Fifth, Jesus no longer has a mortal, perishable, earthly body. Paul speaks about the resurrection of Christ in 1 Corinthians 15 and points out that just as Christ rose from the dead, so we will rise from the dead. "Now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep" (v. 20). The apostle compares the pre-resurrection body with the post-resurrection body in this way:

In Christ Alone I Place My Trust


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## atcfisherman (Oct 5, 2006)

BTW,

I use only the unadulterated bible for my references. Thus writings from "Let Your Name Be Sanctified" or "Let God Be True" are not the bible and are not unadulterated scripture. 


In Christ Alone I Place My Trust


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

atcfisherman said:


> BTW,
> 
> I use only the unadulterated bible for my references. Thus writings from "Let Your Name Be Sanctified" or "Let God Be True" are not the bible and are not unadulterated scripture.
> 
> In Christ Alone I Place My Trust


Everything I reference comes straight from the bible and scriptures are referenced. Let's be sure to be honest about things. Please look up referenced scriptures in the bible. Then you get a true meaning of the explanation.


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## atcfisherman (Oct 5, 2006)

Shaggy

I use scriptures as I did about which you refused to address. The problem lies with what scriptures you follow. The new world translation is not the inspired word oh God. It has added worlds to support the JW views. Follow the true inspired unadulterated word of God and then we can discuss Truth.


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

atcfisherman said:


> Shaggy
> 
> I use scriptures as I did about which you refused to address. The problem lies with what scriptures you follow. The new world translation is not the inspired word oh God. It has added worlds to support the JW views. Follow the true inspired unadulterated word of God and then we can discuss Truth.


100% wrong. The bible was 12 years in the writing. It went back to the original text for translations. I don not care what bible you use. Check the referenced scriptures in whatever bible you want to. ALL bible interpretations were done by man. Who are you to say which is wrong and which is right? Let's keep things on the up and up. You tend to drift into things you have very little knowledge of, then spout things that are made up that you find on the internet. We have been through this before.


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## Seeker (Jul 6, 2009)

Shaggy, just so everyone understands where you are coming from, I would state for clairity puposes: The Jehovas Witnes religion, group, followers, believers, sect, ect.. believes this is the way this scripture is to be under stood. It is obvously not the way "Christians" read and understand it to be. You are trying to mix your beliefs and views with "Christian views" and they are not the same. 

Please do not be upset with me when I say this. I do not understand the Jehova Witness teachings, structure, doctorine.. to be able to speak to or about it. This is what is causing the confusion here on this board. Everything was going along and all of a suden (among other bumps) you disagree with everything "Christians" post. 

I question that. My "Christian Bible" tells me to test what you are presenting against my beliefs and to be quit frank. For me personally. It fails. 

You will argue no doubt to no avail. It means nothing to me. Do not take it personal Shaggy. I am not attacking you for your beliefs. Your a grown man and will have the opertunity to explain yourself for accountability some day. That will be my heavenly fathers role. I am not questioning that period. Other words, "That's not my job".. 

Now, after I have tested and seen what I need to in this situation. I am removing myself from this Food For The Soul board. 

The Gospel I speak about, feel so strongly about, is different than what you are offering. Your "group" see's it alot different than I and that troubles me. 

As for the rest of the "Christians" on this board who come here for our fellowship, I enjoy it thouroughly. I am opening up my own "Christianity" group so we can enjoy the fellowship we once had on this forum prior to the bickering. If you want to be a part of the group, let me know. I am learning how to set it up and am in the trial and error curve so please bear with me. Send me a pm and we will get this train back on track.

Shaggy, please do not take this personal. I see nothing but trouble and a bad situation which I wished I knew of a better solution to offer. I am perplexed at this whole situation. I have never been exposed to it before. 

My discerment is telling me to flee.


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

Seeker said:


> Shaggy, just so everyone understands where you are coming from, I would state for clairity puposes: The Jehovas Witnes religion, group, followers, believers, sect, ect.. believes this is the way this scripture is to be under stood. It is obvously not the way "Christians" read and understand it to be. You are trying to mix your beliefs and views with "Christian views" and they are not the same.
> 
> Please do not be upset with me when I say this. I do not understand the Jehova Witness teachings, structure, doctorine.. to be able to speak to or about it. This is what is causing the confusion here on this board. Everything was going along and all of a suden (among other bumps) you disagree with everything "Christians" post.
> 
> ...


The scriptures I quote come directly from God's word. Most people denied the teachings of Jesus when he was on earth. Those that do not want to research, in their own bibles, to prove what is being said, are missing out. They just want to accuse, without knowing what they are talking about, much like in the day Jesus walked the earth.


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## dan_wrider (Jun 21, 2011)

Wow Shaggy. You're on quite a roll lol.


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## DA REEL DADDY (Jun 7, 2005)

*Luke 24*

I don't see anything here about changing his appearance. Cleopas and company were prevented from recognizing him and then when he stood in the midst of the Apostles who ate with him as Jesus spoke to them.

The Appearance on the Road to Emmaus. 
13 Now that very day two of them were going to a village seven miles* from Jerusalem called Emmaus,
14 and they were conversing about all the things that had occurred.
15 And it happened that while they were conversing and debating, Jesus himself drew near and walked with them,
16 but *their eyes were prevented from recognizing him.*
17 he asked them, â€œWhat are you discussing as you walk along?â€ They stopped, looking downcast.
18 One of them, named Cleopas, said to him in reply, â€œAre you the only visitor to Jerusalem who does not know of the things that have taken place there in these days?â€
19 And he replied to them, â€œWhat sort of things?â€ They said to him, â€œThe things that happened to Jesus the Nazarene, who was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people,
20 how our chief priests and rulers both handed him over to a sentence of death and crucified him.
21 l But we were hoping that he would be the one to redeem Israel; and besides all this, it is now the third day since this took place.
22 Some women from our group, however, have astounded us: they were at the tomb early in the morning
23 and did not find his body; they came back and reported that they had indeed seen a vision of angels who announced that he was alive.
24 Then some of those with us went to the tomb and found things just as the women had described, but him they did not see.â€
25 And he said to them, â€œOh, how foolish you are! How slow of heart to believe all that the prophets spoke!
26 Was it not necessary that the Messiah should suffer* these things and enter into his glory?â€
27 Then beginning with Moses and all the prophets, he interpreted to them what referred to him in all the scriptures.
28 As they approached the village to which they were going, he gave the impression that he was going on farther.
29 But they urged him, â€œStay with us, for it is nearly evening and the day is almost over.â€ So he went in to stay with them.
30 And it happened that, while he was with them at table, he took bread, said the blessing, broke it, and gave it to them.
31 *With that their eyes were opened and they recognized him*, but he vanished from their sight.
32 Then they said to each other, â€œWere not our hearts burning [within us] while he spoke to us on the way and opened the scriptures to us?â€
33 So they set out at once and returned to Jerusalem where they found gathered together the eleven and those with them
34 who were saying, â€œThe Lord has truly been raised and has appeared to Simon!"
35 Then the two recounted what had taken place on the way and how he was made known to them in the breaking of the bread.
The Appearance to the Disciples in Jerusalem.
*36 While they were still speaking about this, he stood in their midst and said to them, â€œPeace be with you.â€
37 But they were startled and terrified and thought that they were seeing a ghost.
38 Then he said to them, â€œWhy are you troubled? And why do questions arise in your hearts?
39 Look at my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me and see, because a ghost does not have flesh and bones as you can see I have.â€
40 And as he said this, he showed them his hands and his feet.
41 While they were still incredulous for joy and were amazed, he asked them, â€œHave you anything here to eat?â€
42 They gave him a piece of baked fish;
43 he took it and ate it in front of them.
44 He said to them, â€œThese are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the law of Moses and in the prophets and psalms must be fulfilled.â€
45 Then he opened their minds to understand the scriptures.
46 And he said to them,y â€œThus it is written that the Messiah would suffer and rise from the dead on the third day
47 and that repentance, for the forgiveness of sins, would be preached in his name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem.
48 You are witnesses of these things.
49 And [behold] I am sending the promise of my Father upon you; but stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high."*


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

Maybe this help you to understand. First the King James version of 1 Peter 3:18.

1 Peter 3:18

Viewing the King James Version. Click to switch to 1611 King James Version of 1 Peter 3:18.

For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: (he rose as a spirit)

An easier version with an explaination. Jehovah God evidently disposed of Jesusâ€™ fleshly body in his own way (possibly disintegrating it into the atoms of which it was constituted). (Lu 24:2, 3, 22, 23; Joh 20:2) Jesus did not take back his fleshly body and thereby cancel out the ransom for which it was given. The apostle Peter testifies that Christ went into heaven, the realm of spirits, not flesh, â€œhe being put to death in the flesh, but being made alive in the spirit.â€ (1Pe 3:18) Before his ascension to heaven Christ, as a mighty, immortal spirit person, did materialize various fleshly bodies to suit the occasion, for the purpose of giving to his disciples visible, palpable evidence of his resurrection.â€”Joh 20:13-17, 25-27; 21:1, 4; Lu 24:15, 16.
In Paulâ€™s letter to the Hebrews the curtain in the sanctuary before the Most Holy, which represented heaven itself, is shown to have been symbolic, representing Jesusâ€™ flesh, for before he sacrificed his fleshly body, the way to life in heaven was not open.â€”Heb 9:24; 10:19, 20. 

It's amazing that people do not even look the cited scriptures up, in their chosen version of the bible, but want to criticize me. Look the scriptures up and answer from the scriptures. Jesus did rise on the third day. But it was not in a human body.


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

DA REEL DADDY said:


> I don't see anything here about changing his appearance. Cleopas and company were prevented from recognizing him and then when he stood in the midst of the Apostles who ate with him as Jesus spoke to them.
> 
> The Appearance on the Road to Emmaus.
> 13 Now that very day two of them were going to a village seven miles* from Jerusalem called Emmaus,
> ...


Tell me how my bible version is different from yours. They did not recognize him, because when he appeared to them he did not appear in the same physical body.

(Luke 24:13-49) But, look! on that very day two of them were journeying to a village about seven miles distant from Jerusalem [and] named EmÂ·maâ€²us, 14â€¯and they were conversing with each other over all these things that had come about. 15â€¯Now as they were conversing and discussing, Jesus himself approached and began walking with them; 16â€¯but their eyes were kept from recognizing him. 17â€¯He said to them: â€œWhat are these matters that YOU are debating between yourselves as YOU walk along?â€ And they stood still with sad faces. 18â€¯In answer the one named Cleâ€²oÂ·pas said to him: â€œAre you dwelling as an alien by yourself in Jerusalem and so do not know the things that have occurred in her in these days?â€ 19â€¯And he said to them: â€œWhat things?â€ They said to him: â€œThe things concerning Jesus the NazÂ·aÂ·reneâ€², who became a prophet powerful in work and word before God and all the people; 20â€¯and how our chief priests and rulers handed him over to the sentence of death and impaled him. 21â€¯But we were hoping that this [man] was the one destined to deliver Israel; yes, and besides all these things, this makes the third day since these things occurred. 22â€¯Moreover, certain women from among us also astonished us, because they had been early to the memorial tomb 23â€¯but did not find his body and they came saying they had also seen a supernatural sight of angels, who said he is alive. 24â€¯Further, some of those with us went off to the memorial tomb; and they found it so, just as the women had said, but they did not see him.â€ 25â€¯So he said to them: â€œO senseless ones and slow in heart to believe on all the things the prophets spoke! 26â€¯Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and to enter into his glory?â€ 27â€¯And commencing at Moses and all the Prophets he interpreted to them things pertaining to himself in all the Scriptures. 28â€¯Finally they got close to the village where they were journeying, and he made as if he was journeying on farther. 29â€¯But they used pressure upon him, saying: â€œStay with us, because it is toward evening and the day has already declined.â€ With that he went in to stay with them. 30â€¯And as he was reclining with them at the meal he took the loaf, blessed it, broke it and began to hand it to them. 31â€¯At that their eyes were fully opened and they recognized him; and he disappeared from them. 32â€¯And they said to each other: â€œWere not our hearts burning as he was speaking to us on the road, as he was fully opening up the Scriptures to us?â€ 33â€¯And in that very hour they rose and returned to Jerusalem, and they found the eleven and those with them assembled together, 34â€¯saying: â€œFor a fact the Lord was raised up and he appeared to Simon!â€ 35â€¯Now they themselves related the [events] on the road and how he became known to them by the breaking of the loaf. 36â€¯While they were speaking of these things he himself stood in their midst [[and said to them: â€œMay YOU have peace.â€]] 37â€¯But because they were terrified, and had become frightened, they were imagining they beheld a spirit. 38â€¯So he said to them: â€œWhy are YOU troubled, and why is it doubts come up in YOUR hearts? 39â€¯See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself; feel me and see, because a spirit does not have flesh and bones just as YOU behold that I have.â€ 40â€¯[[And as he said this he showed them his hands and his feet.]] 41â€¯But while they were still not believing for sheer joy and were wondering, he said to them: â€œDo YOU have something there to eat?â€ 42â€¯And they handed him a piece of broiled fish; 43â€¯and he took it and ate it before their eyes. 44â€¯He now said to them: â€œThese are my words which I spoke to YOU while I was yet with YOU, that all the things written in the law of Moses and in the Prophets and Psalms about me must be fulfilled.â€ 45â€¯Then he opened up their minds fully to grasp the meaning of the Scriptures, 46â€¯and he said to them: â€œIn this way it is written that the Christ would suffer and rise from among the dead on the third day, 47â€¯and on the basis of his name repentance for forgiveness of sins would be preached in all the nationsâ€"starting out from Jerusalem, 48â€¯YOU are to be witnesses of these things. 49â€¯And, look! I am sending forth upon YOU that which is promised by my Father. YOU, though, abide in the city until YOU become clothed with power from on high.â€


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## DA REEL DADDY (Jun 7, 2005)

shaggydog said:


> Tell me how my bible version is different from yours. They did not recognize him, because when he appeared to them he did not appear in the same physical body.
> 
> (Luke 24:13-49) But, look! on that very day two of them were journeying to a village about seven miles distant from Jerusalem [and] named EmÂ·maâ€²us, 14â€¯and they were conversing with each other over all these things that had come about. 15â€¯Now as they were conversing and discussing, Jesus himself approached and began walking with them; *16â€¯but their eyes were kept from recognizing him.* 17â€¯He said to them: â€œWhat are these matters that YOU are debating between yourselves as YOU walk along?â€ And they stood still with sad faces. 18â€¯In answer the one named Cleâ€²oÂ·pas said to him: â€œAre you dwelling as an alien by yourself in Jerusalem and so do not know the things that have occurred in her in these days?â€ 19â€¯And he said to them: â€œWhat things?â€ They said to him: â€œThe things concerning Jesus the NazÂ·aÂ·reneâ€², who became a prophet powerful in work and word before God and all the people; 20â€¯and how our chief priests and rulers handed him over to the sentence of death and impaled him. 21â€¯But we were hoping that this [man] was the one destined to deliver Israel; yes, and besides all these things, this makes the third day since these things occurred. 22â€¯Moreover, certain women from among us also astonished us, because they had been early to the memorial tomb 23â€¯but did not find his body and they came saying they had also seen a supernatural sight of angels, who said he is alive. 24â€¯Further, some of those with us went off to the memorial tomb; and they found it so, just as the women had said, but they did not see him.â€ 25â€¯So he said to them: â€œO senseless ones and slow in heart to believe on all the things the prophets spoke! 26â€¯Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and to enter into his glory?â€ 27â€¯And commencing at Moses and all the Prophets he interpreted to them things pertaining to himself in all the Scriptures. 28â€¯Finally they got close to the village where they were journeying, and he made as if he was journeying on farther. 29â€¯But they used pressure upon him, saying: â€œStay with us, because it is toward evening and the day has already declined.â€ With that he went in to stay with them. 30â€¯And as he was reclining with them at the meal he took the loaf, blessed it, broke it and began to hand it to them.* 31â€¯At that their eyes were fully opened and they recognized him; and he disappeared from them. *32â€¯And they said to each other: â€œWere not our hearts burning as he was speaking to us on the road, as he was fully opening up the Scriptures to us?â€ 33â€¯And in that very hour they rose and returned to Jerusalem, and they found the eleven and those with them assembled together, 34â€¯saying: â€œFor a fact the Lord was raised up and he appeared to Simon!â€ 35â€¯Now they themselves related the [events] on the road and how he became known to them by the breaking of the loaf. 36â€¯While they were speaking of these things he himself stood in their midst [[and said to them: â€œMay YOU have peace.â€]] 37â€¯But because they were terrified, and had become frightened, they were imagining they beheld a spirit. 38â€¯So he said to them: â€œWhy are YOU troubled, and why is it doubts come up in YOUR hearts? 39â€¯See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself; feel me and see, because a spirit does not have flesh and bones just as YOU behold that I have.â€ 40â€¯[[And as he said this he showed them his hands and his feet.]] 41â€¯But while they were still not believing for sheer joy and were wondering, he said to them: â€œDo YOU have something there to eat?â€ 42â€¯And they handed him a piece of broiled fish; 43â€¯and he took it and ate it before their eyes. 44â€¯He now said to them: â€œThese are my words which I spoke to YOU while I was yet with YOU, that all the things written in the law of Moses and in the Prophets and Psalms about me must be fulfilled.â€ 45â€¯Then he opened up their minds fully to grasp the meaning of the Scriptures, 46â€¯and he said to them: â€œIn this way it is written that the Christ would suffer and rise from among the dead on the third day, 47â€¯and on the basis of his name repentance for forgiveness of sins would be preached in all the nationsâ€"starting out from Jerusalem, 48â€¯YOU are to be witnesses of these things. 49â€¯And, look! I am sending forth upon YOU that which is promised by my Father. YOU, though, abide in the city until YOU become clothed with power from on high.â€


I see no significant difference, itheir EYES were prevented not they did not recognize him. God kept them from recognizing him not Jesus' new appearance. *16â€¯but their eyes were kept from recognizing him. * then at the end of their journey their eyes were OPENED *31â€¯At that their eyes were fully opened and they recognized him; and he disappeared from them.* and then they recognized him.


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

1 Corinthians 15: 50 is very clear on the fact that flesh cannot enter heaven. This is from the KJ version.

50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Flesh and blood cannot enter into heaven.


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## DA REEL DADDY (Jun 7, 2005)

shaggydog said:


> 1 Corinthians 15: 50 is very clear on the fact that flesh cannot enter heaven. This is from the KJ version.
> 
> 50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
> 
> Flesh and blood cannot enter into heaven.


I'll agree with that, but he is not in Heaven the appearances are on Earth.


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## DA REEL DADDY (Jun 7, 2005)

shaggydog said:


> 1 Corinthians 15: 50 is very clear on the fact that flesh cannot enter heaven. This is from the KJ version.
> 
> 50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
> 
> Flesh and blood cannot enter into heaven.


Can you explain how the Apostles touch and ate with him in this Scripture?

39 Look at my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me and see, because a ghost does not have flesh and bones as you can see I have.â€
40 And as he said this, he showed them his hands and his feet.
41 While they were still incredulous for joy and were amazed, he asked them, â€œHave you anything here to eat?â€
42 They gave him a piece of baked fish;
43 he took it and ate it in front of them.


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

DA REEL DADDY said:


> Can you explain how the Apostles touch and ate with him in this Scripture?
> 
> 39 Look at my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me and see, because a ghost does not have flesh and bones as you can see I have.â€
> 40 And as he said this, he showed them his hands and his feet.
> ...


You get no argument from me here. He absolutely did materialize in human for several times after his death. It was not in the same body that he appeared in while he was on earth, that is why he was not physically recognized.


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

After Jesusâ€™ resurrection he appeared in different bodies. Mary mistook him for the gardener. (Joh 20:14,Â 15) He again appeared, entering a room with locked doors, having a body with wound marks. (Joh 20:24-29) Several times he manifested himself and was recognized, not by his appearance, but by his words and actions. (Lu 24:15, 16, 30, 31, 36-45; Mt 28:16-18) Once a miracle performed at his direction opened his disciplesâ€™ eyes to his identity. (Joh 21:4-7,Â 12) Jesus, having been resurrected as a spirit (1Pe 3:18), could materialize a body for the occasion as the angels did in past times, when they appeared as messengers. (Ge 18:2; 19:1,Â 12; Jos 5:13,Â 14; Jg 13:3,Â 6; Heb 13:2) During the days before the Flood, the angels that â€œdid not keep their original position but forsook their own proper dwelling placeâ€ performed an incarnation and married human wives. That these angelic sons of God were not truly human but had materialized bodies is shown by the fact that the Flood did not destroy these angels, but they dematerialized and returned to the spirit realm.â€"Jude 6; Ge 6:4; 1Pe 3:19,Â 20; 2Pe 2:4.

The fact that Jesus appeared in different bodies was nothing new. Angels had appeared in  fleshly bodies on several occasions, also those that fathered the Nephilim appeared in physical bodies.

On one occasion the disciples did not recognize him physically, but because of the miracle he performed it opened their eyes, so to speak, as to his identity. This is found at John 21: 4-7, 4â€¯However, just as it was getting to be morning, Jesus stood on the beach, but the disciples did not, of course, discern that it was Jesus. 5â€¯Then Jesus said to them: â€œYoung children, YOU do not have anything to eat, do YOU?â€ They answered â€œNo!â€ to him. 6â€¯He said to them: â€œCast the net on the right side of the boat and YOU will find [some].â€ Then they cast it, but they were no longer able to draw it in because of the multitude of the fishes. 7â€¯Therefore that disciple whom Jesus used to love said to Peter: â€œIt is the Lord!â€ Hence Simon Peter, upon hearing that it was the Lord, girded about himself his top garment, for he was naked, and plunged into the sea.


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

Seeker said:


> Shaggy, just so everyone understands where you are coming from, I would state for clairity puposes: The Jehovas Witnes religion, group, followers, believers, sect, ect.. believes this is the way this scripture is to be under stood. It is obvously not the way "Christians" read and understand it to be. You are trying to mix your beliefs and views with "Christian views" and they are not the same.
> 
> Please do not be upset with me when I say this. I do not understand the Jehova Witness teachings, structure, doctorine.. to be able to speak to or about it. This is what is causing the confusion here on this board. Everything was going along and all of a suden (among other bumps) you disagree with everything "Christians" post.
> 
> ...


Seeker, just to address you misconceptions, Jehovah's Witnesses are definitely Christians. Please do not promote falsehoods, that certainly is not the mark of a Christian. So lets set the record straight.

We are Christians for the following reasons:

We try to follow closely the teachings and behavior of Jesus Christ.â€"1 Peter 2:21.

We believe that Jesus is the key to salvation, that â€œ"there is not another name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved."â€â€"Acts 4:12.

When people become Jehovahâ€™s Witnesses, they are baptized in the name of Jesus.â€"Matthew 28:18, 19.

We offer our prayers in Jesusâ€™ name.â€"John 15:16.

We believe that Jesus is the Head, or the one appointed to have authority, over every man.â€"1 Corinthians 11:3.

However, in a number of ways, we are different from other religious groups that are called Christian. For example, we believe that the Bible teaches that Jesus is the Son of God, not part of a Trinity. (Mark 12:29) We do not believe that the soul is immortal, that there is any basis in Scripture for saying that God tortures people in an everlasting hell, or that those who take the lead in religious activities should have titles that elevate them above others.â€"Ecclesiastes 9:5; Ezekiel 18:4; Matthew 23:8-10.

The reasoning is all scriptural based. Please look at the cited scriptures in YOUR copy of the bible.

Question for you Seeker, what religion are you?


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## atcfisherman (Oct 5, 2006)

And the scriptures I showed are straight from the bible and are clear that Jesus did physically rise from the grave. 


In Christ Alone I Place My Trust


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

If he rose from the grave as a physical body, why did those that saw him when he materialized back on earth have trouble recognizing him. Don't you think he would have appeared in that same body? That body had been done away with (possibly disintegrating it into the atoms of which it was constituted).

1 Corinthians 15: 50tells us that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. So you don't think Jesus is in heaven now?

50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; 
neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

The fact that he rose as a spirit is backed us at 1Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: (he rose as a spirit)


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## atcfisherman (Oct 5, 2006)

Again, let me post the straight forward scriptures that were dodged around earlier. 

Matthew 20:18-19
"Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem; and the Son of Man will be delivered to the chief priests and scribes, and they will condemn Him to death, and will deliver Him to the Gentiles to mock and scourge and crucify Him, and on the third day He will be raised up."

Mark 9:9
And as they were coming down from the mountain, He gave them orders not to relate to anyone what they had seen, until the Son of Man should rise from the dead.

Mark 16:6
And he said to them, "Do not be amazed; you are looking for Jesus the Nazarene, who has been crucified. He has risen; He is not here; behold, here is the place where they laid Him. 

John 20:27
27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

See, Jesus had to raise physically to prove that he was the savior and had the power to defeat death. Thomas even touched him. Nowhere in scripture does it say that Jesus rose as a spirit creature. It clearly states he rose physically. 

Here is something else, if Jesus didn't physically rise from the dead then:
1. Where was his body?
2. Then he didn't physically rise like budda or any other religious figure. 

Shaggy,

You are quick to take some scriptures as literal like Jesus being the Son of God, but scriptures that clearly speak of Jesus rising physically from the dead or all the scriptures that speak of a real heal you like to say things like....."he is a spirit creature" or "hell is symbolic". 

I have studied the JW, Mormons, and many others and of all, the JW twist scriptures like pretzels. Now I know your response will be that I'm attacking you, which is not true. You are passionate for your beliefs. You had some bad experiences with the Methodists church and that drove you away and the JW found you. I get that and all I can do is pray for you. 

One good barometer of is we are allowing our pride to get in the way is how we respond to opposing views. You get upset, attack others, use language like..."I speak the TRUTH" or "Y'all are being mislead"...etc. we don't personally attack you. We disagree with how the JW change scriptures to meet their beliefs. 




In Christ Alone I Place My Trust


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## Fish&Chips (Jan 27, 2012)

That is as clear as it gets atcfisherman. Good post - I'm with you on that one 100 percent.


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## TrueblueTexican (Aug 29, 2005)

*A new verse to the song*

On CHRIST the solid rock I stand , not on the leanings of mortal man, not on the leanings of mortal man -----

Quickened by the Spirit - you FLESH would be but a zombie were it not for your IMMORTAL Spirit

We have ZOMBIES among us who SPIRIT's have been given over - the psychopaths who populate our jails -

Jesus Flesh laying in the tomb was resurrected on the third day after the SPIRIT physically was absent from it. The FLESH was quickened by the SPIRITS return.

Jesus rose from victory over the grave and left that Tomb aided by angels who rolled aside the gravestone -

PHYSICALLY JESUS appeared before his disciples in his flesh suit - animated by the SPIRIT - and being THEN PHYSICALLY RESURRECTED not bound by earthly physical constraints - such as all CHRISTIANS one day will be -

MAN MADE IN GODS IMAGE

NOT AS FLESH BUT AS IMMORTAL BEINGS - and as such we likely only have a very dim glimpse of what that entails --

The FINAL death as spoken of in the Bible does not concern Christians, it concerns those Spirits aligned with Lucifer - then removed and destroyed for all time --

AN ENOURMOUS GIFT was given to man by our CREATOR - its so sad so many deceived by Lucifer which puts their IMMORTALITY at risk - its unspeakable the enormity of that gift is bestowed upon God Created Humanity - IN GODS IMAGE are we created-- the FLESH that contains our Spirit corrupted by original SIN, is but a test tube CRUCIBLE, purified by the trials we endure until that flesh dies - that time but a second in Gods reckoning, JESUS came to earth in the FLESH to endure those same trials, yet knew no sin, and was SACRIFICED as a bridge between a HOLY GOD we could never stand before otherwise -

JESUS


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## Fish&Chips (Jan 27, 2012)

Amen, TrueblueTexican.


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