# Top Secret Fly?



## ErikSaenger (Jun 18, 2016)

Anyone have any top secret flies that are working right now?

Just got back from Rock Port and had ZERO bites. Even threw my trusty rattle shrimp fly and still nothing... lol


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## 8weight (Mar 24, 2016)

Were you putting it in the zone? Were the fishing responding to your fly at all?

Redfish aren't too picky if you strip it in the zone in front of their face they'll usually always hit it.


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## jimmyc300 (Oct 5, 2006)

Reds have been kind of persnickety lately. Seems like allot of the times when they are in the grass they are sleeping and unresponsive. I have seen them aggressive then an hour later all payed up in the grass. Watch their behavior before you switch flies. My go to fly has worked up until the go to sleep. Lol


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## karstopo (Jun 29, 2009)

It's been over a week since I've been out and I didnt even see a red for it to turn down my fly. I had one eat on a flounder busting bait in a small drain in East matagorda. Saw a lot of sheepshead way up in flooded cordgrass, but you know how they are. 

I currently have 3 go to flies for reds. One is a shrimp with a rattle, one a mud minnow, one a flashy redfish crack type fly. The crack like fly is my go to fly in shallow sight casting areas. Instead of the collar of EP like most crack versions use, I use Eye Lash yarn from Hobby Lobby. It has taken my only sheepshead, most of my black drum, some croakers along with plenty of redfish, flounder, and a few trout. It's an easy tie if you want the recipe.


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## Permit Rat (May 13, 2014)

karstopo said:


> I currently have 3 go to flies for reds. One is a shrimp with a rattle, one a mud minnow, one a flashy redfish crack type fly. The crack like fly is my go to fly in shallow sight casting areas. Instead of the collar of EP like most crack versions use, I use Eye Lash yarn from Hobby Lobby. It has taken my only sheepshead, most of my black drum, some croakers along with plenty of redfish, flounder, and a few trout. It's an easy tie if you want the recipe.


Hmmmm......there goes _those_ secret flies! (tietietietie)

My secret fly is sooooo secret, even the fish don't know about it yet. That's because it's going to be a different color (and perhaps some materials too)version of my _Mutton Rat_ fly.....which is mostly just a sculpin that is found on the grass flats in the Keys. Whereas permit do not follow the rays in the Keys, mutton snapper _do_, and they eat the sculpins that are flushed out by the ray's wings. Y'all see redfish behind the rays in Texas?


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## karstopo (Jun 29, 2009)

Permit Rat said:


> Hmmmm......there goes _those_ secret flies! (tietietietie)
> 
> My secret fly is sooooo secret, even the fish don't know about it yet. That's because it's going to be a different color (and perhaps some materials too)version of my _Mutton Rat_ fly.....which is mostly just a sculpin that is found on the grass flats in the Keys. Whereas permit do not follow the rays in the Keys, mutton snapper _do_, and they eat the sculpins that are flushed out by the ray's wings. Y'all see redfish behind the rays in Texas?


You know I read about this Ray/redfish partnership, but I can't say I have ever witnessed it. I tie a mud minnow that looks sculpinish, gobyish. We surely have bottom dwelling fish that look a bit sculpin like.


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## Permit Rat (May 13, 2014)

karstopo said:


> *You know I read about this Ray/redfish partnership, but I can't say I have ever witnessed it*. I tie a mud minnow that looks sculpinish, gobyish. We surely have bottom dwelling fish that look a bit sculpin like.


First, only pay attention to the _southern stingray_. They are the only rays that I have seen fish follow. In the Keys, we also find small jacks and blue runners behind the rays and on the few grass flats that border the open Gulf, we have cobia following the larger rays, when they migrate through in the Spring. We also have a leopard ray/spotted eagle ray, but fish don't follow them. In deeper water, it could be a different story.

Here in Texas, I have noticed also, the _bat_ and/or _cow-nosed rays_ and I don't think fish follow them, either. This is because they (at least the ones I have seen) are too small....and they are also too skittish. I think I have seen a few jump already. Even the southern sting rays should be at least 2 feet across, before you would expect to see a fish behind it. That's just my experience. However, I'm still new in Texas, so I'll be investigating all rays, at least for a while.


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## trucha del mar (Apr 21, 2010)

*Reds on rays*



Permit Rat said:


> Y'all see redfish behind the rays in Texas?


PR - Yes, but it seems to be somewhat of a random occurrence. I remember a day where I saw a red following almost every ray we saw, so that I just threw at every ray even before I saw the fish behind it. But reds predictably following rays still seems somewhat uncommon. The only pattern I have noticed is that it seems to happen more often the further south on the coast you are fishing. I have caught reds following rays down on the sands near you. Hope this helps.


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## Backcast (Jul 22, 2005)

Have found redfish mixed in with schooling hard heads. Saw this E Matagorda.
Joe


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## lapesca67 (Apr 9, 2008)

Found a lot of reds in the Laguna just north of Baffin on the east shoreline saturday.....Crab flies were like candy....all were brown and tan variations.


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## ErikSaenger (Jun 18, 2016)

I never even saw a redfish. Gave up polling and was fishing for trout in the deeper water. Nothing... lol just one of those days i guess.


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## karstopo (Jun 29, 2009)

A photo of the crack like fly. Went out yesterday afternoon and got a few small trout, a drum, and a tiny red on the crack or a shrimp. Something really big and fast took off with the crack one and I battled it for about 3 minutes before hook pulled free. Probably a jack.


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## karstopo (Jun 29, 2009)

The crack and the shrimp together. I kind of hate the shrimp because with the tungsten bead it wears you out casting it for any length of time. I need to do one with a brass bead. The crack is easy to cast with extra small lead dumbells. I just did a couple with bead chain. That should really make them fly.


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## Permit Rat (May 13, 2014)

mit


karstopo said:


> A photo of the crack like fly. Went out yesterday afternoon and got a few small trout, a drum, and a tiny red on the crack or a shrimp. Something really big and fast took off with the crack one and I battled it for about 3 minutes before hook pulled free. Probably a jack.


Geez man, at least you're catching _something!_ Kudos! Oh....and that wasn't a jack you lost, it was a 36 inch snook that just decided not to jump......how do you feel _NOW??? _

On a more serious note.....I've never seen it mentioned here, but there's also this stuff called "lead wire," and I believe it is very useful on streamer-type flies, especially if you want a more natural swimming action, as opposed to the hopping action that lead dumbells give.

It seems to me also, that when you more evenly weight the shank of the hook, a fly sinks a little slower and obviously more level, such that when retrieved, the fly may bounce off the tips of grass on the bottom, rather than nosing down into it, like when using the dumbells. Might make your flies a little more weedless. Personally, I hate weed guards and avoid them at all costs. I try to design flies where the materials can be manipulated to at least help in reducing weed snags.
ã€€
My go-to diameter is .030....it seems to work for just about everyhing. And if I want a smaller profile to the body, I can hammer it down into a lead "tape" (looks like lead dental floss!) and wrap that over a longer portion of the shank.

C'mon guys......admit you forgot all about lead wire.ã€€lol


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## karstopo (Jun 29, 2009)

I have some thinner lead wire that I seldom use. I did use some channel lead that can be positioned anywhere along the shank. I made some what I thought was a great looking, balanced EP fiber hook point up baitfish. It swam great, casted okay, but has yet to get so much as a single eat. 


I really don't like the weed guards either because I think it might interfere with the hookset. My shrimp doesn't ever have one and being in a jig hook has some weedless attributes. The crack fly I do both guarded and unguarded. I hang out at the best oyster bars trolling for babes... and like to go in wearing protection. 

Most of my go to patterns are built with a jigging action in mind. We have very little sea grass here in Brazoria County, the South shore of Christmas Bay is the extent of it. Jigging in 1/16 oz lead heads with paddle tails was my bread and butter way before fly fishing so I try to build in the same action into a lot of my flies. I do use an unweighted baitfish made from Steve Farrar that slowly drops and doesn't jig on the retrieve. Its my surf and open water go to pattern.


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## ErikSaenger (Jun 18, 2016)

Thanks for the ideas guys I will def try them out.. gonna see what material i have and try a crack fly asap.. 


anyone know why i can only post once every 7200 seconds.. lol that is what it tells me if I try to post again or reply to another message.


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