# Cuts on Stripers



## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

Ikanizer said:


> I'm a little new to this. Noticed some cuts on the fish in your photos. I caught a 24" striper a couple of weekends ago at Livingston that also had what appeared to be cuts or sores on it. In multiple places. Is that common and do any of you experienced guys know what causes them?


_Ikanizer in his first post, asks an interesting question. Sounds like a good topic for a fishing discussion...what's your take?_

_p.s. welcome Ikanizer _


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

Ok, here's a possibility: 

I'm forming an opinion that some of the cuts are caused by stripers....very big stripers. 

In the referenced photo which is also attached, the fish cut was very fresh, in fact made IMO during the actual fight this morning. If you have fished saltwater much, you've experienced a hooked fish being hit (sometimes eaten) by bigger fish.

I had that same feeling today...three times in fact and two of those resulted in lost fish and one in the cut fish pictured.

Conventional wisdom on the Lake says there aren't any(or at least many) big stripers (over 30 inches). With all due respect to that wisdom, I don't buy it. Very big stripers hit my fish today, I'm convinced of it. Now to figure out a way to catch one of them.


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## fishinganimal (Mar 30, 2006)

Could it be possible to be a foul hook injury. You can imagine those trebles being jerked up with the fish schooled up could cuase some scaring.


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## johnmyjohn (Aug 6, 2006)

I believe the Trinity is the gar capitol of the world so that would include the Livingston. When the whites go up river in the late winter I've caught them with simular scares. I do believe just like the cats following the shad up the river the gar do the same to the whites. 
People have a an idea as a gar being a scum sucking bottom feeding basically trash eating fish. But there is a reason those teeth are shaped that way. Taking down a white or striper would be small work esspecially if there is a thick school to rip thru. 
I've also caught a lot of cats with rip type scares. There's also fine scares like another bigger cat gave it a go. But I would look at the scare and match it up with the species teeth.


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## Lone Eagle (Aug 20, 2009)

Meadowlark said:


> Ok, here's a possibility:
> 
> I'm forming an opinion that some of the cuts are caused by stripers....very big stripers.
> 
> ...


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

Lone Eagle said:


> Meadowlark said:
> 
> 
> > If a large striper were to hit a smaller striper trying to eat it, wouldn't there be more than one mark?
> ...


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## Reel Time (Oct 6, 2009)

So you are not considering the possibility of a prop scar?
I know you said that you felt something unusual during the fight but can't a prop still be a possibility? Just asking not trying to be difficult!!
RT


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## Gofish2day (May 9, 2006)

You see even more sores like that on the fish below the dam area. At first I thought maybe fish coming thru the dam. After looking at alot of the fish with sores, I don't think so. Maybe something in the water??


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

Prop scar...could be....but the one in the picture was a fresh mark, still guess it could have been a prop mark....but its just more exciting to think it was a bigger striper :smile:


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## Kody Emmert (Oct 5, 2007)

My belief is that it is possibly bigger stripers making these marks.... Last year is pulled a 15" white up to the boat just to have a 20-30lb. class striper to come up and slam the fish almost out of the net. It was a humbling experience to say the least, I know the big stripes are out there, I have also had hooks straightened on my slabs before while hooked up on what was possibly a big striper, I have recently switched my hooks to the heavy saltwater grade trebles.

Kody


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## Reel Time (Oct 6, 2009)

MDLK, after thoughtful consideration and knowing you are the "King of the Stripers" I think we need to settle this issue once and for all. What we need is a waterproof wireless camera about 18 " above your lure and watch what really goes on. I'm guessing a youtube video of a monster striper hitting a "caught" striper or other fish would be an instant sensation. I know with all that knowledge you have you could make it happen!
RT


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## MoneyAg (Mar 29, 2010)

What are the lake and river records?


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## johnmyjohn (Aug 6, 2006)

I'm like you on comparing to salt water but that's what I'm most familiar with.
When I surf fish I try to use live mullet. When I would get a run and miss the fish And was fortunate enough to get my bait back I could come close to knowing what hit the bait. If the mullet looked like it was scaled I would spot red fish, if it was scaled with some fine scares on the flesh I would spot trout, and shark was a no brainer with even scares on both sides like a cat would make. These are hand granade ideas but they work for me most of the time. When you have a lot of fish stacked like below the dam there seems to be a lot of fish mutalated and scared in some way. I believe bigger fish trying to score does most of the damage because they can attempt more times in one spot. I use to fish HLP pond back before they closed it to the public and it had stripers it seemed like there mouth would not have the potential to make a gouge type scare. Their gill rakes would if they made a turn on another one but it would probably look like a fine slice like the one on my hand once. I have no doupt there is huge stripers that found a way to stay comfortable year round and feed on whits as main table fare but who fishes with 10-12 inch live whites to catch them?


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## Lone Eagle (Aug 20, 2009)

Meadowlark said:


> Lone Eagle said:
> 
> 
> > Good point LE. A striper mouth, even a big one, isn't all that large, especially compared to say a LMB. I believe the big striper hits its prey head-on to stun it and then come back and devore it. It just doesn't have the mouth size to try to swallow a live fish so it stuns it first and then comes back and inhales it...at least that's what I believe.
> ...


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

Reel Time said:


> .... What we need is a waterproof wireless camera about 18 " above your lure and watch what really goes on. ...


That creates visions of this big open fish mouth swallowing the expensive camera...and leaving us to wonder what happened....sometimes the mystery is better than actually knowing.


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## shadslinger (Aug 21, 2005)

2 times last year we had a customer about to swing a small(15 to 17") striper into the boat when a very big(20lbs+) striper tried to eat it at boat side, both times the angler was shocked by the huge fish coming so close to the boat, one nearly dropped the rod over in shock and surprise.
I think the very big stripers are cannibalistic to large degree, like very big speckled trout. I think that is why the big pencil popper draws strkeis from big stripers as it looks like a small striper slashing in the water after shad.
I don't know if those are bite marks or not, the one I caught this morning had one on it.


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## oilfish (Jan 23, 2010)

I think the marks are some type of bacteria / parasite. You seem to notice the marks more on the fish in the summer hence warmer water where bacteria thrives . It seems the fish I catch up river in winter / spring dont have near as many marks. JMO.

Oilfish


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

OF,

Not arguing so please don't take it that way, but look at that picture again...that isn't bacteria or parasite...it is a cut and a very fresh one.

I agree with you that you do see parasite/bacteria marks...but that isn't one, IMO.


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

Kody Emmert said:


> ... I know the big stripes are out there, I have also had hooks straightened on my slabs before while hooked up on what was possibly a big striper, I have recently switched my hooks to the heavy saltwater grade trebles.
> 
> Kody


Kody, you are right...it can be a life changing experience.

My one and only experience with a very big striper on the lake (that I know for sure) was early last year fishing with live bait out of my pontoon boat, with white bass rod/reel/line and flimsy cheap landing net.

The pontoon boat has been sold(too high on the sides to land a big fish) , the rod/reel put on the shelf for white bass fishing, and the net burned and replaced with a big, open, long handle net capable of landing the fish I lost!!


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## oilfish (Jan 23, 2010)

Meadowlark, no problem brother. 

I did not get a good look at the pictures and yes your theory is a very hard one to challenge. We need Sunbeam to chime in ? I know we have some big striper in our Great lake.

Oilfish


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## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

Wow, this turned into an interesting thread!
I believe them to be cuts, not bacteria or parasites. 
I don't know about bigger striper mouths making these cuts. This time of year I would lean to other and maybe bigger striper _gill plates_ during feeding frenzies.
I have to agree with Johnmyjohn to a huge degree here. I don't know about the open lake, but I would bet (and I don't _gamble_) that gar eat and scar up many whites upstream in the river. There are days in the spawn when it is unusual to catch a white that is not scared! The gar can be up there at the same time in unbelievably large numbers. The gar can be so thick your lower unit hits them while running the river. Also, one of the "Gar Guys" (look them up on the web) told me he had personally seen big gar absoluety full of white bass. 
I have wondered about lower unit/props also.
Opinions are like ********, everyone has one!


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## Sunbeam (Feb 24, 2009)

Oilfish, I'll chime in to only say I don't have any idea.
I can only say that in the distant past there have been reports of some large stripers caught in the lake and below the dam but in 30 years I have never seen one.

But several things jump out at me when you talk about stripers big enough to kill and eat a legal size little brother.

1st There have been stripers stock annually since the late 70's. Millions upon millions. This year TP&W put 1,938,340 striper fry in the lake. Most years 1/2 to one million fingerlings.

2nd The Livingston record is a striper caught in the spring of 1986. It was a midget compared to other striper records in the state and national.
The fish was 31.5 lbs and 37" long. That is only twice the length of our legal fish and only 25% bigger that our average "real good fish." Again only 31 lbs.

3rd I could see an alpha fish hitting a fish 50 to 75% own its size. No to eat it but to steal the food it has captured and is trying to swallow. I am most certain a large striper does not know the difference between a slab spoon and a large shad sticking out of the mouth of the fish it is trying to mug. Snakes do a real trick to swallow other snake near theit own length. I doubt that a 32" striper would have room for a 20" fish in it's gullet.

4th History does not indicate large stripers in Livingston. We have all heard the stories about giant stripers being caught on trotlines or seen floating dead. But we also have all heard the urban myths about the diver seeing the 8 ft catfish at the bottom of nearly every dam in the south. If those giants were seen why didn't just one person in 30 years bring one to the bank. I think those giants stripers are a mystical as the giant catfish.
In over 30 plus years of stocking millions of stripers the best result was a fish of only 31 pounds and that was caught 24 long years ago.

5th Mark Webb our lake biologist has been present at nearly every gill net test ever made in the main lake. These test are done by a team who know how to trap and measure fish. Mark told me last year that he has never seen s striper over 30 inches netted in the last ten years that he has been on the job.

6th Jeff Blankenship,TRA, was with Mark Webb all day this spring during the striper harvest. He was on the shocking boat and on land. The largest striper that the biologist tested was a 22lb fish. That was the largest. It was not retained because its eggs were not ripe.

I am like all the rest of you. Meadowlark, shadslinger and Lone Eagle do not wish any harder than I for large stripers to be aboundant in the lake I wish every day to see a photo on 2cool of a 34 inch striper being hoisted aloaf by one of you guys.
But being a realist I will continue to be doubtful about schools of large stripers roaming the lake until they show up in the photos.


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## luckyD (Jun 13, 2010)

*What If?*

So what will the proper thing to do be, should one of us 2Coolers hook a striper over 32 inches? From what I have read so far, stripers do not survive the journey from the depths to the surface. Naturally all of us would love to have claim to a state and/or lake record, but being an amateur in the world of striper fishing with all the catch and release emphasis these days, do we just take pics and weigh it before letting it go to an uncertain existence. Hopefully if anyone ever lands a real big one it will be one of us 2coolers.

Here's to the Possibility:brew:


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## luckyD (Jun 13, 2010)

*What If? 2*

32 pounds that is


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## shadslinger (Aug 21, 2005)

I'm still looking. Hope to catch it, a record striper that is. I read on striper web sites and the biggest striper in most bodies of water are caught on cut bait on the bottom. So I have been using that both drifted and setting still. I have caught some good stripers doing that and I hope to get tuned in to catch them more consistent and bigger fish. Below the dam I think it all of tye old line and hooks that are in the water that cut the fish up so much.


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## Sunbeam (Feb 24, 2009)

SS, the recognize world record was caught o n a glob of clams off Block Island. 

Lucky D, If you get a 34" plus striper just bring her on in to the dock. The lose of one brood fish that might make it below the dam will not hurt the TP&W program. 
If you release it it might or might not be caught by another fisherman. I would say maybe 1,000,000 to 1. Taking it out of the school just cuts down on the food competition for the little guys. It would make a nice wall hanger..


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

I certainly can't offer any revelations nor compete with the experience here. But I have to back to the notion of the marks coming from foul hooking. As has been said it would take a very large fish to make the marks that far up on the body without lots of scars on both sides. I am certain that stripers are cannibalistic but doubt they could make that particular mark. Just my .02. Great thread. Lots of wisdom here.


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## Lone-Star (Dec 19, 2009)

Bacterial infection of what initially starts as a minor scratch and damage to the slime coating. Not as exciting as a monster striper but not that uncommon of a finding in the summer months.


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

Whitebassfisher said:


> .... I would lean to other and maybe bigger striper _gill plates_ during feeding frenzies.


That's a very interesting possibility, IMO. Razor sharp gill plates could very well make those marks. Good thought.


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

luckyD said:


> So what will the proper thing to do be, should one of us 2Coolers hook a striper over 32 inches?
> 
> Here's to the Possibility:brew:


LuckyD, if it is caught while the water temps are above 80 degrees, absolutely keep the fish. There is about an 85% probability that it will die anyway...under even the best catch and release care.

If you release it, it will simply be wasted turtle food.

I believe in catch and release as much as anyone and practice it, but it just isn't effective on big stripers in summer.

Now if its in cooler water, do whatever you wish...but please in hot water take it and use it and honor the great fish that it is...just my opinion.

and here's wishing you luck at getting that big one:cheers:


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

By the way...to all the doubters in this friendly, interesting discussion , check out SS's striper today. Hopefully he will post a picture.


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## shadslinger (Aug 21, 2005)

It had both a cut place on it and an old crunch where it's backbone has deformed, maybe by a monster striper. 
This is an interesting thread, but I would like to go on record as saying I have personally seen big(20lb+) stripers
try to eat a small one at boat side. And once last year the 1oz rattletrap was the bait of choice for a week or so. During that time it was hard to hook a striper and get it in without another striper trying to take the rattletrap away, and sometime successfully, from the fish who hit it to start with. We had one lady who landed 2, 24" stripers on the same 10z rattletrap. One on each treble hook.


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## Reel Time (Oct 6, 2009)

shadslinger said:


> It had both a cut place on it and an old crunch where it's backbone has deformed, maybe by a monster striper.
> This is an interesting thread, but I would like to go on record as saying I have personally seen big(20lb+) stripers
> try to eat a small one at boat side. And once last year the 1oz rattletrap was the bait of choice for a week or so. During that time it was hard to hook a striper and get it in without another striper trying to take the rattletrap away, and sometime successfully, from the fish who hit it to start with.* We had one lady who landed 2, 24" stripers on the same 10z rattletrap. One on each treble hook.*




That would be a sight to behold! You were probably too excited to get a pic!
RT


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## shadslinger (Aug 21, 2005)

One of the guys almost dropped the rod overboard.


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

shadslinger said:


> It had both a cut place on it and an old crunch where it's backbone has deformed, maybe by a monster striper.
> This is an interesting thread, but I would like to go on record as saying I have personally seen big(20lb+) stripers
> try to eat a small one at boat side. And once last year the 1oz rattletrap was the bait of choice for a week or so. During that time it was hard to hook a striper and get it in without another striper trying to take the rattletrap away, and sometime successfully, from the fish who hit it to start with. We had one lady who landed 2, 24" stripers on the same 10z rattletrap. One on each treble hook.


Guys/gals, I did not mean to infer that the big fish didn't try to eat the smaller ones, I know they do, just that when they do, wouldn't the marks be on both sides and more than just the one vertical cut? Please don't think I am trying to argue because I am certainly not qualified nor experienced enough in striper fishing to even start that.


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

HydraSports said:


> .... wouldn't the marks be on both sides and more than just the one vertical cut?


No, see my explaination offered earlier in the thread...stripers have a relatively small mouth and they will first stun a big live food item with a header and then come back and devour it. Just my opinion.


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## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

*Everyone!*

*Please understand!*

My joke at the end of my post #23 on this thread about opinions was referring to *my* *own opinion*, not anyone else's! 

I feel certain whites get hit upstream in the spawn by gar.

I KNOW a striper gill plate can cut me and make me bleed like a stuck pig.

Overall, I credit whites and stripers with being smart enough and fast enough to avoid boat props, but I also know I have hit gar. I have turned and seen them twice behind my boat after I hit them.


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## Guide Carey Thorn (Sep 30, 2009)

IMO, a lot of the striper are near the surface this time of year. i have seen 1st hand eagles and other predatory birds grab them and fly off. on a couple occasions they would wiggle free and drop back into the drink. resulting in deep puncture wounds. with a gar, you wont get one big wound, you will most likely get a shark like bite mark on them, not just one or 2 punctures. for example, if you look at the fist pic of the striper on the bottom, looks to me like an eagle has grabed it. the length in between the punctures are pretty much about the spread of talons....


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## great white fisherman (Jun 24, 2008)

Gar


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## bueyescowboy (Apr 10, 2005)

I say other fish biting on them...first they get a sore from being bitten during a feeding frenzy...then that spot being red on white usually catches the attention of other fish and they Peck it.....soon enough after enough pecking a sore is made maybe more than one....my opinion


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## fin&feather (Jun 24, 2008)

I've seen this a few times fishing below the Inks dam, I always took it as the fish might sometimes meet a rock in the current, could happen, right?


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## HAIRCUTTER (Aug 2, 2006)

Great thread..........


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