# East Texas takes the quick lead in the Los Cazadores



## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

Venado Creek, San Augustine, Texas (Deep East Texas), Opening weekend of Bow Season 2009. Taped out at an even 215". Topped the leaderboard on Monday. When he first sent me the pic of the deer in the back of the truck, I didnt think there was any way it could be over 170.... but this picture shows how much can change at a different angle.


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## Tiny (Dec 19, 2006)

Very Impressive.


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## btreybig (Jul 3, 2008)

thats one heckuva deer!!!


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## huntr4life (Apr 30, 2007)

Wow!


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## pg542 (Oct 9, 2006)

Whoa, what a stud! Congrats to the hunter. Lifetime buck.......


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## kim e cooper (Feb 18, 2006)

Wow that is a great buck congrats.


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## ROBOWADER (May 22, 2004)

You would think that guy would have gotten a shoulder mount


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## sharkbait-tx70 (Jun 28, 2009)

Man o man thats a whopper of a Buck....


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## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

ROBOWADER said:


> You would think that guy would have gotten a shoulder mount


It will be a shoulder mount... its just caped out....


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## Lagunabob (May 19, 2005)

Los Cazadores needs a breeder pen category these days.


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## Tombstone (May 19, 2009)

Very nice. Venado Creek produces some studs. I believe they had a couple monsters on the board last season.


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## ROBOWADER (May 22, 2004)

High Fence?


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## Texas Roach (May 29, 2009)

Good to see another monster come out of ET! -Roach


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## capt.sandbar (Aug 31, 2007)

I don't know if I woulda been shaking more before I shot it, or after...
Congrats on a GREAT BUCK!!


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## Team X-TREME (Jun 28, 2009)

Impressive buck, for sure! Congrats to the hunter!

His left tines are rounded off from rubbing on the protein feeder.


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## texas8point (Dec 18, 2006)

Wow......huge.......i like it


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## waterspout (May 21, 2004)

east Texas is starting to see some massive big ranches getting fenced up.. south Texas is going to be in trouble before long, they can't produce the size deer ET will with the rain, greenage etc ET holds. I know a couple of folks on some heavy hitting ET ranches! There goes the woods and the family mans hunting grounds.


Awesome deer for sure, congrats to the guy!


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## TroutMaster76 (Jun 19, 2005)

can anyone else not see the pic?


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## waterspout (May 21, 2004)

TroutMaster76 said:


> can anyone else not see the pic?


you must be blocked from Photobucket.


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## seabo (Jun 29, 2006)

dang thats a healofa buck, shakin ain't the word ,its more like trembling out of control. what a bow kill!!


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## Titus Bass (Dec 26, 2008)

That's a whopper......


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## 2x Drop Tine (Sep 24, 2006)

Heck of a buck. I would have a smile from ear to ear!


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## remi19 (Feb 27, 2008)

ROBOWADER said:


> High Fence?


yes


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## M16 (May 28, 2008)

troutphishin said:


> Los Cazadores needs a breeder pen category these days.


That's for sure. It used to be a well run contest when Darwin had it but all good things must come to an end. Now the high fence division is just a "whizzing' contest.


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## Chase This! (Jul 20, 2007)

High fenced bucks are a joke. Here deer deer deer. Boom!!! Look at my trophy. 

Please.

Brandon


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## Crispito (Aug 30, 2005)

X2


Well said sir....

I will stick to my family owned low fenced ranch in Hondo.

Tight Lines & Gig'em
Cm3


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## Clint (Jun 16, 2005)

I don't find it on the leader board.
I wonder if it was DQed because of this rule from thier website?

3. Any deer entered into the Los Cazadores contest MUST be brought to the headquarters in Pearsall, Texas to be formally entered into the contest. All bucks must have the hide attached to the skull in order to be considered for entry (Mexico deer are the ONLY exception to this rule). *Any bare horns brought in will not be considered for entry.* Special provisions are possible by contacting the headquarters prior to entry. If special provisions are made, the entrant must bring three different photos of the buck. Each exception will be judged on an individual basis and any decision reached by the Los Cazadores partnership is final.


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## Texas Roach (May 29, 2009)

Clint said:


> I don't find it on the leader board.
> I wonder if it was DQed because of this rule from thier website?
> 
> 3. Any deer entered into the Los Cazadores contest MUST be brought to the headquarters in Pearsall, Texas to be formally entered into the contest. All bucks must have the hide attached to the skull in order to be considered for entry (Mexico deer are the ONLY exception to this rule). *Any bare horns brought in will not be considered for entry.* Special provisions are possible by contacting the headquarters prior to entry. If special provisions are made, the entrant must bring three different photos of the buck. Each exception will be judged on an individual basis and any decision reached by the Los Cazadores partnership is final.


I noticed the same thing Clint. -Roach


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## Aggie_Snowman'04 (Oct 15, 2008)

Anybody know who the guy in the picture is????

It looks like a buddy of mine from A&M name Ryan Haltom but I have not kept up with him since college. He has on an Aggie rings so I thought it might be him...

Its a beast of a deer for sure!


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## deebo (May 22, 2004)

he is up on the website guys...no DQ as far as i can see


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## Clint (Jun 16, 2005)

Yep, it's there now.

It wasn't showing up earlier. 

Heck of a deer. Congratulations to him.


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## waterspout (May 21, 2004)

*MIKE MERRITT*

BAYTOWN, TX
Open: Places: 1st, 2nd, 3rd Score:215Harvest County:SAN AUGUSTINERanch:VENADO CREEK RANCHOutfitter:Other:17 POINTS 22 5/8 INCHES WIDEGear:


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## SpotChaser#2 (Feb 28, 2006)

Cazadores does have a breed pen division its called the "Open Division". If i'm not mistaken anyone who has a breeder facility on the ranch has to enter the deer in the Open division.


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## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

open division is the "breeder" category asked about by one poster...

guess it's that time of year to bash high fences again.. so easy to kill a deer in a high fence that a quadraplegic tourettes person could do it...


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## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

Aggie_Snowman'04 said:


> Anybody know who the guy in the picture is????
> 
> It looks like a buddy of mine from A&M name Ryan Haltom but I have not kept up with him since college. He has on an Aggie rings so I thought it might be him...
> 
> Its a beast of a deer for sure!


Yep, its Haltom. He's managing Venado Creek now. He started about 3-4 months ago after leaving a place out near Mason.

Im not sure why the actual shooter of the deer didn't make the trip though. I havent asked yet.

Venado had the 1st place spot last year with a 252" deer as well.


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## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

Crispito said:


> X2
> 
> Well said sir....
> 
> ...


Then I guess family owned ranches are a joke.... cuz they dont get hunted hard like the places I have to hunt and not everybody has the luxury of their own private property to hunt....

We could go round and round about this for months. Just admire the deer and the work that it took to grow it (and the work that it took to earn the money to afford to grow it)


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## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

Chase This! said:


> High fenced bucks are a joke. Here deer deer deer. Boom!!! Look at my trophy.
> 
> Please.
> 
> Brandon


Spoken from someone who is obviously painted a serious shade of green.... Tell me honestly that given the chance, you would not shoot that deer because it was on a high fenced place....

I was at a 1700 acre high fenced place in D'Hanis from Thursday til Sunday.... put TONS of miles on the mule driving around and saw ONE buck.... ONE.... and I know there are at least 50 BIG bucks on there...

I have sat in the stands a few times to take pictures and still only saw a handful of deer, and have only seen one that is over 170". Note, there are 50+ more that I never saw. Hell, I even saw a picture on a game cam of a deer that has not been seen in 3 years, on camera OR in person!

These ranches are not pens, and they dont hand feed the deer or lead them around on ropes.... they just give them an atmosphere in which they have a chance to maximize their potential without being killed early. (Now there are exceptions, some ranches are pens, I will admit that)

Yes, it is farming, but so is feeding protein... and corn.... and food plots.... And the bottom line is that it is a good business venture

And to get one of these deer into bow range is a great feat in itself.

So give props to the guy.... dont steal his thunder. The guy shot a buck of a lifetime


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## Two Headed Dog (Jun 4, 2009)

*As Al Bundy would say,*

GREAT JUMPING HORNY TOADS!

How are you going to keep them down on the farm after they've seen someting like that. I am literally green with envy.


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## salth2o (Sep 21, 2004)

justinsfa said:


> Tell me honestly that given the chance, you would not shoot that deer because it was on a high fenced place....


I can 100% honestly say that I would/will not. I do not bash those who hunt high fence, but I can not get excited about hunting that is not fair chase.

Just my personal feeling.


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## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

Well, you have more restraint that me for sure!!! I wouldnt be able to pull the trigger fast enough.... haha

Kudos for sticking to your guns I guess though....


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## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

i think to be truly a sportsman and really call your hunt fair chase... you need to give up baiting all together.. throw the feeders away, spend your money on beer instead of corn.... go natural.. otherwise, ... you know... not fair hwell:


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## hammerdown (Jan 10, 2009)

InfamousJ said:


> i think to be truly a sportsman and really call your hunt fair chase... you need to give up baiting all together.. throw the feeders away, spend your money on beer instead of corn.... go natural.. otherwise, ... you know... not fair hwell:


 Thats alot of beer!!!!!!!!


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## S-3 ranch (May 26, 2004)

*if it was free yes*



justinsfa said:


> Spoken from someone who is obviously painted a serious shade of green.... Tell me honestly that given the chance, you would not shoot that deer because it was on a high fenced place....
> 
> I was at a 1700 acre high fenced place in D'Hanis from Thursday til Sunday.... put TONS of miles on the mule driving around and saw ONE buck.... ONE.... and I know there are at least 50 BIG bucks on there...
> 
> ...


penned up deer shouldn't be in contest :help:


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## Lagunabob (May 19, 2005)

justinsfa said:


> Yep, its Haltom. He's managing Venado Creek now. He started about 3-4 months ago after leaving a place out near Mason.
> 
> *Im not sure why the actual shooter of the deer didn't make the trip though. I havent asked yet.*
> 
> Venado had the 1st place spot last year with a 252" deer as well.


probably didn't want to have to tell everyone he paid $20k to shoot a breeder out of the pen.


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## hoser76 (Oct 29, 2008)

Sound's like some people are jealous.


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## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

pilar said:


> penned up deer shouldn't be in contest :help:


Thats why they have their own category


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## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

troutphishin said:


> probably didn't want to have to tell everyone he paid $20k to shoot a breeder out of the pen.


Nah, cuz if he woulda shot it out of their pen, it woulda looked more like this....










PS.... Anybody can PM me for details on how to get these genetics in YOUR deer herd....


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## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

hammerdown said:


> Thats alot of beer!!!!!!!!


You know it!!!!


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## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

troutphishin said:


> probably didn't want to have to tell everyone he paid $20k to shoot a breeder out of the pen.


And if you find a breeder to shoot out of a pen for $20k, you better jump all over that deal....

Think more along the lines for 6 figures.... and NOT low 6 figures....


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## Crispito (Aug 30, 2005)

Not jealous, just not my thing. I am a double major in Genetics and Biochemistry from TAMU. I understand what it takes to "make" these beasts. I also would not take it if I had the chance. Mind you this is my opinion..it is not "real." I would rather take a solid 8pt from the my ranch any day of the week. Kudos to the guy if that is what he is into.

Tight Lines & Gig'Em
CM3


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## longhorns13 (Aug 22, 2006)

If your on the breeder side of things, there is nothing better than raising a herd of animals and helping them reach their maximum potential. It's hard work and not as easy as everyone thinks. Big money or little money, deer only breed once a year and that takes time to build up genetics in your herd. People are proud of what they have accomplished on their ranch. If people didn't pay to harvest animals, no one would be doing this. Don't know when it happened but hunting became "cool" for the people that thought hunting was for ********. Hunting has always been "cool" for the people that always hunted. As long as people are willing to pay 20K to kill a buck, ranchers will develope their herds. I'm not one of the haters of breeding. I have a small breeding herd myself. I just gave my opinion to what I see. Nice buck!


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## longhorns13 (Aug 22, 2006)

I need to sell the herd and drink beer, as bad as it has been the last couple of years!


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## Clint Leopold (Mar 7, 2006)

InfamousJ said:


> i think to be truly a sportsman and really call your hunt fair chase... you need to give up baiting all together.. throw the feeders away, spend your money on beer instead of corn.... go natural.. otherwise, ... you know... not fair hwell:


Agree 100%. I'm a member of another hunting forum and almost everyone on there HATES Texas hunters for the way we hunt. Not just for the high fences, but for using corn feeders, protein feeders, planting food plots, and everything else we use to get an advantage. Its funny to see where the ethics police draw the line. The guy that hunts and stalks on the ground slams the guy who hunts in the tree. The guy who hunts in the tree slams those for planting a food plot. The guy who plants the food plot slams the guy for using a feeder. The guy who uses the feeder slams the guy for hunting a high fence. The guy who shot the big deer in the high fence with a bow slams the guy who shot a deer with a gun. Just because you don't do it doesn't mean that its not right. Someone out there thinks that your tactics aren't very ethical either. As long as you follow the laws and take your alloted animals who really cares. Shoot what makes you happy and let others shoot what makes them happy.


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## longhorns13 (Aug 22, 2006)

Well said Leopold! Just let the other people on the other forum know we don't need them coming to Texas!!


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## RAYSOR (Apr 26, 2007)

wow!


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## LBS (Sep 2, 2004)

There are some very impressive low fence bucks on LC already, even a couple super nice low fence bow kills. Can't forget my lotto tickets tonight....


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## Redfishr (Jul 26, 2004)

Now thats some serious East Texas bone......


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## Lagunabob (May 19, 2005)

justinsfa said:


> And if you find a breeder to shoot out of a pen for $20k, you better jump all over that deal....
> 
> Think more along the lines for 6 figures.... and NOT low 6 figures....


not these days...big breeders/captives are dime a dozen in Texas. market isn't what it used to be. we get offered bucks all the time and the prices keep dropping.

that 215 was likely in the $20k range and captive until they figured out he wasn't breeder quality.

sorry but shooting captive deer for a contest just isn't hunting, but congrats to the "hunter".


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## Tactical Hog Control (May 27, 2009)

That is Ryan.

Jed



Aggie_Snowman'04 said:


> Anybody know who the guy in the picture is????
> 
> It looks like a buddy of mine from A&M name Ryan Haltom but I have not kept up with him since college. He has on an Aggie rings so I thought it might be him...
> 
> Its a beast of a deer for sure!


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## wedington (Dec 19, 2007)

troutphishin said:


> Los Cazadores needs a breeder pen category these days.


I agree. Shooting caged animals is pretty lame.


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## Rubberback (Sep 9, 2008)

:texasflag:texasflagSeems I read these type of threads & don't agree or disagree with baiting , hunting from a blind etc. I' m old school & have hunted almost every scenario around & my comment to these threads is it all depends on where your hunting , how much land, the terrain etc..Another factor is your neighbors. You might see a deer that you should pass but you know that if you pass . The neighbor will get him. Believe me I've talked to them . Where I've been hunting the last 4 years is crazy the neighbors won't shoot does cause they feel that's their breeding stock. So what do I see does I mean herds of does. I keep telling them shoot the does they will not listen.The sad part is you can only shoot does 4 days a year with a rifle. I only hunt 100 acres so I just shoot does when I can & spikes. Its a loosing battle.


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## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

many low fence ranches manage their deer herds the same as a high fence ranches do, even co-ops form among many smaller ranches to accomplish these goals, i.e. raise mature bucks as big as they can get, feed protein, keep buck doe ratios in line, shoot inferior deer, etc... I can guarantee you though that ranches on the edge of these co-ops do feel cheated having a neighbor that does not help them out...

like protein, food plots, improved water supplies, co-ops... a high fence is just another tool in the management plan arsenal available... it is an almost fool proof method for eliminating your neighbors actions giving you the ability to promote the maturity and characteristics of the local herd, as well as protecting your personal investment of sweat, emotions, and financials. Like the old saying around... "don't high fence deer in, high fence bad neighbors out"

I'll agree pen raised (small enclosures) bucks let loose for the hunt is not my cup of tea, personal choice... but harping on and bashing high fence in general yelling fair chase as the only excuse is a bit hypocritical if you implement any of the other management techniques giving you a better advantage at a quality animal..


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## LongRodMaster (Mar 5, 2005)

See this is why I quit fishing its just not fair to the fish I mean really he is locked up in that body of water whats the point? I used to only fish saltwater for this reason but the oceans are limited to this one round planet and just gave up it so unfair!:headknock

I could go on but argueing with the ignorant is like having a conversation with my dog. :cheers:


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## SpotChaser#2 (Feb 28, 2006)

*High Fences!*

Just because you hunt under high fence, does'nt mean your hunting in a pen as some on here would say. I agree there are some places were its almost the same as hunting in a pen but dont throw all high fence ranches in the same category. I guarantee you there is no difference between hunting 7800 acres of high fence or low fence. If you actaually believe there is, then you have never hunted a large high fence ranch before. I have seen many good looking 4yr old bucks vanish to never be seen again once they hit a certain age. If there under high fence should'nt I be able to just walk out there and find them as 5yr olds. They are under high fence so they have to be there. Right??. All im saying is not all high fence ranches are the same.


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## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

three replies devoted to discussing the chase aspect of it... it's not that simple... 

it is a management tool as I shortly described above, nothing more. If you have a low fence ranch and feed protein, create food plots, shoot spikes, or GOD forbid let a young buck walk.. anything to better manage the local herd, what does that mean? You plan to see the same deer again in the future on your low fence ranch? Ahhhh...... OK


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## Chase This! (Jul 20, 2007)

waterspout said:


> Is this how you really feel Brandon,, why do you catch fish that are stuck under water.. they can't fly,,, thats cheating.... :biggrin: :slimer:


Yo spout, this is how I ROLL BABY.

http://www.bluewaterfishingranch.com/

The "granders only" package is off the hook. I like my fish pinned up so they are easier to catch. I justify it by saying "it is a management tool ". PFFFFT. COME ON IJ. Weak.

Brandon


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## waterspout (May 21, 2004)

see there,, I knew it... you and Snappy always fishing those LOW fence ponds!:rotfl:


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## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

Chase This! said:


> Yo spout, this is how I ROLL BABY.
> 
> http://www.bluewaterfishingranch.com/
> 
> ...


like repubs and democrats,... you go boyeeee

why dont you and I meet at taco bell in 30 minutes, beeotch?


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## SpotChaser#2 (Feb 28, 2006)

I agree I J, it just seems everyone who has a problem with it thinks your hunting in a small pen and can shoot any deer you want any given day.


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## Chase This! (Jul 20, 2007)

InfamousJ said:


> why dont you and I meet at taco bell in 30 minutes, beeotch?


I think you mean Academy parking lot. Oh, it's on.

B


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## waterspout (May 21, 2004)

Chase This! said:


> Yo spout, this is how I ROLL BABY.
> 
> http://www.bluewaterfishingranch.com/
> 
> ...


J hunts the High fence pets,, he will defend them all day!:wink:


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## SeanSFA (Oct 7, 2009)

thats a nice deer


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## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

Chase This! said:


> I think you mean Academy parking lot. Oh, it's on.
> 
> B


pack a lunch


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

I guess I can agree that not all high fence ranches are the same, but I don't think that anyone could argue that the chances of killing a trophy deer today goes way up when it is on a high fence property. That being said, the value of harvesting of a trophy deer on a high fence ranch is diminished, IMO. The discusssion is no different than fishing bait or arti's, bow vs crossbow vs rifle, everyone has their opinion about which is right. To add to my issue with high fenced ranches, where is the retribution for the animals that are trapped inside of the fence. Kill one illegal buck and you pay a restock fee, but trap 500 inside of a high fence and they magically become your property to breed/sell with all access from others cut off. Not right.


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## Chase This! (Jul 20, 2007)

waterspout said:


> J hunts the High fence pets,, he will defend them all day!:wink:


plus he gets that extra weekend for the handicapped. And all along I thought he was playing retarded.....

Brandon


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## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

Chase This! said:


> plus he gets that extra weekend for the handicapped. And all along I thought he was playing retarded.....
> 
> Brandon


just keep talking crossbow hunter


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## Clint (Jun 16, 2005)

InfamousJ said:


> If you have a low fence ranch and feed protein, create food plots, shoot spikes, or GOD forbid let a young buck walk.. anything to better manage the local herd, what does that mean? You plan to see the same deer again in the future on your low fence ranch? Ahhhh...... OK


Not that I have anything against high fence. I also believe that they are a great management tool, but surely your not saying that you can't manage a low fence ranch and expect to follow the same buck through to maturaty?


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## SpotChaser#2 (Feb 28, 2006)

HydraSports said:


> I guess I can agree that not all high fence ranches are the same, but I don't think that anyone could argue that the chances of killing a trophy deer today goes way up when it is on a high fence property. That being said, the value of harvesting of a trophy deer on a high fence ranch is diminished, IMO. The discusssion is no different than fishing bait or arti's, bow vs crossbow vs rifle, everyone has their opinion about which is right. To add to my issue with high fenced ranches, where is the retribution for the animals that are trapped inside of the fence. Kill one illegal buck and you pay a restock fee, but trap 500 inside of a high fence and *they magically become your property to breed/sell with all access from others cut off.* Not right.


Hunting under high fence doent allow you to sell deer??


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## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

Clint said:


> Not that I have anything against high fence. I also believe that they are a great management tool, but surely your not saying that you can't manage a low fence ranch and expect to follow the same buck through to maturaty?


no, I was being sarcastic... those that think high fence see the deer anytime they want, or "raise it" till they want to shoot it, I just wanted to point out the irony that you can also do the same thing on a low fence place as well...


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## waterspout (May 21, 2004)

InfamousJ said:


> just keep talking crossbow hunter



you mean B is now a bow hunter seeing they changed the law to help the sissy crossbow guys! did he buy it the last week of sept?


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## LongRodMaster (Mar 5, 2005)

hell i have been on low fence ranches where you could feed the deer out of your hand.


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## Clint (Jun 16, 2005)

You sarcastic? 

I agree.


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## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

I can prove it to you in person if you want... just send me a greenie with an invite to your hunting or fishing camp... LOL


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## Chase This! (Jul 20, 2007)

InfamousJ said:


> I can prove it to you in person if you want... just send me a greenie with an invite to your hunting or fishing camp... LOL


Jeeze, you are worse than Tiny.


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## waterspout (May 21, 2004)

Chase This! said:


> Jeeze, you are worse than Tiny.


Ap"pear"ently!


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

I stand corrected. But my point is that these ranches are trapping deer on their property and segmenting it from the general public (adjacent landowners for starters) and not paying for it. I don't think that there would be nearly as much high fencing going on if a survey was done and all of the deer that were on the property had to be bought from the State at the same rate as the illegally taken restock fee. Just my .02.



SpotChaser#2 said:


> Hunting under high fence doent allow you to sell deer??


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## SpotChaser#2 (Feb 28, 2006)

Unless a high fence is built next to a national forrest, the general public is not affected. The general public cant just go out and hunt on someones land.


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## waterspout (May 21, 2004)

SpotChaser#2 said:


> Unless a high fence is built next to a national forrest, the general public is not affected. The general public cant just go out and hunt on someones land.


sense when can't I???

I usually just drive by and shoot from the road, more sporting at 70mph!

:biggrin:


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## Charles Helm (Oct 22, 2004)

Chase This! said:


> I think you mean Academy parking lot. Oh, it's on.
> 
> B


For clarification, is it just "on," or is it "on like Donkey Kong"?


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## TRW (Nov 30, 2006)

HS
but I don't think that anyone could argue that the chances of killing a trophy deer today goes way up when it is on a high fence property. That being said, the value of harvesting of a trophy deer on a high fence ranch is diminished, IMO

Probably because they spend the time and effort to manage the deer on their property with out neighbors shooting everything that they work so hard for. I think some might see it as an accomplishment for the years it takes to manage a ranch for trophy deer. IMO If the ranch is big enough a trophy is a trophy. After all most deer are shot using corn feeders or corning the roads to draw in the deer. Nothing wrong with either one.

TRW


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## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

Charles Helm said:


> For clarification, is it just "on," or is it "on like Donkey Kong"?


oh it was on... he'll be waking up with hoses coming out of him :rotfl:


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## Charles Helm (Oct 22, 2004)

Not Gilbert's hose, surely?


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## Chase This! (Jul 20, 2007)

InfamousJ said:


> oh it was on... he'll be waking up with hoses coming out of him :rotfl:


Baawwwaaahahaaahaha. I think you mean you skulled dragged me.

Please. I was ready for an old fashion arse whoppin', but IJ was to busy telling me about his new bow. He's feelings were hurt when I wasn't impressed.

Brandon


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## waterspout (May 21, 2004)

InfamousJ said:


> oh it was on... he'll be waking up with hoses coming out of him :rotfl:


Dang,, what'd y'all get some nasty raw oysters for lunch :tongue: :rotfl:


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## Chase This! (Jul 20, 2007)

I think he was quoting one of the famous 2Cool ********, and meant to say:

"after I'm done with him, he's going to wake up with hoses attached to him". You have to say it really loud, preferably wearing a sleeveless shirt to get the full effect.

BOOM.


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## waterspout (May 21, 2004)

Chase This! said:


> I think he was quoting one of the famous 2Cool ********, and meant to say:
> 
> "after I'm done with him, he's going to wake up with hoses attached to him". You have to say it really loud, preferably wearing a sleeveless shirt to get the full effect.
> 
> BOOM.


BOOM,, bwaahahahahahaha!!!!! :rotfl: I've hear that before,,, :cheers:


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## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

hey man, my friends don't live in this computer... but I'll be checking in on yall and if you keep it up I'm going to order nobody to give you another greenie.


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

WTH, did you not see the part about adjacent land owners, the deer belong to the State and not any individual land owner to keep solely for his own and to prevent them from ranging where ever they choose, on my land or your land, where ever they choose. IMO, end of story, they should pay the state for the deer.......



SpotChaser#2 said:


> Unless a high fence is built next to a national forrest, the general public is not affected. The general public cant just go out and hunt on someones land.


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## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

deer are not migratory animals


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## Long Pole (Jun 5, 2008)

waterspout said:


> you mean B is now a bow hunter seeing they changed the law to help the sissy crossbow guys! did he buy it the last week of sept?


No, he stopped at Academy on the way to the lease on friday Oct 2nd....got to the pen and took it straight out the box and sat up on the fence tryin to figure out which on he'd take that day.


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## waterspout (May 21, 2004)

does that mean no migratory stamp in needed to hunt them?????????? cool!!


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

I didn't say there was anything wrong or illegal about either one or that hard work managing property for better deer is wrong, just that in the eyes of the law, the deer should be allowed to roam where ever they choose. Your statement "neighbors shooting everything they work so hard for" just further makes my point, they didn't work for those deer, they don't own those deer, they don't have one cent more right to kill that deer than anyone else, the guy who day leases on 50 acres has just as much right to that deer as the guy who owns 10k of high fence ranch. I am not saying that the day lease guy has as much invested, but he sure has the same right to kill it. Deer should be treated like migratory game birds and fish, everyone has the same opportunity, as long as they are legally hunting/fishing on private or public lands. Having said all of that, if a guy buys all of his WT deer from somewhere else, like exotics, then he has the right to fence them in, hunt them as he chooses and claim his trophy as he sees fit, but until then, those deer belong to you and me to have an opportunity to take if they walk our way.



TRW said:


> HS
> but I don't think that anyone could argue that the chances of killing a trophy deer today goes way up when it is on a high fence property. That being said, the value of harvesting of a trophy deer on a high fence ranch is diminished, IMO
> 
> Probably because they spend the time and effort to manage the deer on their property with out neighbors shooting everything that they work so hard for. I think some might see it as an accomplishment for the years it takes to manage a ranch for trophy deer. IMO If the ranch is big enough a trophy is a trophy. After all most deer are shot using corn feeders or corning the roads to draw in the deer. Nothing wrong with either one.
> ...


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

They may not be migratory the same as dove or ducks, but they do travel/live in a range of area that knows no natural boundaries, which is greater for bucks during the rut, which in a sense makes them migratory as it relates one property line to the other.



InfamousJ said:


> deer are not migratory animals


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## Tiny (Dec 19, 2006)

HydraSports said:


> WTH, did you not see the part about adjacent land owners, the deer belong to the State and not any individual land owner to keep solely for his own and to prevent them from ranging where ever they choose, on my land or your land, where ever they choose. IMO, end of story, they should pay the state for the deer.......


Ok... so you're saying that if YOU bought 11,000 acres and YOU wanted to high fence it to keep tresspassers from killing the deer that YOU paid for feed on all year and slow down the Illegals from passing through your property then YOU should have to buy the Deer from the state????

Are you crazy???

I could see your argument if the ranch had one way doors or gates going into it, but not this one...

If you buy a piece of property, you can do any dang thing you want with it, the animals do still belong to the state, it's just that no body but you, who is supplying all the feed and protein and in a lot of cases water to the deer who live on your property, and whomever you say can shoot them.. regardless you still have to follow the rules and obey the laws.


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## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

there is a possibility this will end up one day turning them over to the individual ranchers.. private property owner rights trump alot of issues now adays... like mineral rights, game is quickly becoming an asset.. look at how many ranchers are selling top dollar WITH NO mineral rights.. they have big deer! LOL

tiny, you forgot to mention the dude that puts up 4 feeders along your fenceline with a blind facing your property


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## Tiny (Dec 19, 2006)

InfamousJ said:


> there is a possibility this will end up one day turning them over to the individual ranchers.. private property owner rights trump alot of issues now adays... like mineral rights... game is quickly becoming an asset.. look at how many ranchers are selling top dollar WITH NO mineral rights.. they have big deer! LOL
> 
> tiny, you forgot to mention the dude that puts up 4 feeders along your fenceline with a blind facing your property


Dangit!! :headknock Yea... and it's only 100 yards from YOUR protien feeder.


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## waterspout (May 21, 2004)

Tiny said:


> Dangit!! :headknock Yea... and it's only 100 yards from YOUR protien feeder.


why is his prtien feeder so close to the fence line!


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## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

btw, how many times on your small low fence places have you seen an average 8 pointer or cull buck, went back to camp and told your brother or friend what you saw and they can go sit your stand in the evening or next morning to kill it if they want. When they do go back to the same spot and the same deer comes in they take it. Now that stinks, how come that deer did not walk to the next ranch and give that landowner a looksie before you gave it away for a brother/friend to take?


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## Chase This! (Jul 20, 2007)

Tiny said:


> Dangit!! :headknock Yea... and it's only 100 yards from YOUR protien feeder.


I didn't know day leases had protein feeders. Guess it pays to do your homework, Tiny.

Wait, I recall something about........nah. Never mind. :rotfl:

Brandon


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## waterspout (May 21, 2004)

Chase This! said:


> I didn't know day leases had protein feeders. Guess it pays to do your homework, Tiny.
> 
> Wait, I recall something about........nah. Never mind. :rotfl:
> 
> Brandon


He's trollin for a spot still! LMAO! Last place he had a hundred show up to feed,,

Skeeters on his neck!:rotfl:


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## TRW (Nov 30, 2006)

HS,
You asked the Question. I just gave you the answer sorry you did not like it, What about all of the deer still outside of the fence? if you are in a good area then you should have plenty of deer to shoot. Sounds like you have been high fenced out were you hunting the fence line or something.


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## Tiny (Dec 19, 2006)

waterspout said:


> why is his prtien feeder so close to the fence line!


cuzz whoever put it there was a dumb---!:rotfl:


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## LandPirate (Jun 5, 2009)

Using the argument that a landowner should have to pay for the deer that got trapped inside his high fence. You could turn it around and say that the state has to pay me grass fees for their deer grazing on my property. I'm just saying. 

Personally, I don't care to hunt high fence places. I **** sure wouldn't pay what these guys are paying just to kill a tick infested deer. But I do support the land owner's right to install high fences if they so choose. It's not going to affect deer numbers in the area. It only restricts deer movement. 

Besides, if all the of the amateur, weekend warriors would quit shooting 1.5 year old deer because they have bone on their heads then high fencing probably wouldn't be necessary in the first place. If you want meat, kill does.


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

Yeah, I have been called crazy a couple of time, but thats a different story. Yes, I do own many hundred acres and if I did decide to put up a high fence I would expect that I would have to pay for them, IF everyone else that had high fences did the same. But not all of us own land, so where does that leave the guy who doesn't. All I am saying is that the deer belong to the state and its citizens. If I kill a deer on my legally owned property that does not meet whatever laws that are in place, then I am charged a restock fee. If I have to pay a restock fee to kill any deer that is on my land, then the guy who fences them in should have to pay for them when he puts up the fence, most of which do have gates/doors that prevent the animals from leaving.

Come on, trespassers/illegals, high fences are just a minor annoyance to them, certainly does not prevent them from entering your property.

I couldn't agree more, when I buy a piece of land, I darn well take possession and do exactly what I want with/on that land (except throw water on their property, etc which is against the law), but that doesn't change the law or my point about who owns the animals. Water and feed......that is your choice to put it out, not necessary for the wildlife to live in their normal amounts for what the land can normally accomodate.



Tiny said:


> Ok... so you're saying that if YOU bought 11,000 acres and YOU wanted to high fence it to keep tresspassers from killing the deer that YOU paid for feed on all year and slow down the Illegals from passing through your property then YOU should have to buy the Deer from the state????
> 
> Are you crazy???
> 
> ...


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## kaptin krunch (May 23, 2004)

I do not like high fences they are too hard to climb


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

You gave your answer which is no better than mine, just your opinion, which is not based on any facts. I am not worried about my hunting, I hunt across the entire state on my own land and kill all I choose to, not one inch of high fence. Do I kill 170 class WT, haven't in a while, but I hunt because I like it. You can keep you snide remarks about the fence line, obviously you don't want to engage in a real discussion about this subject.



TRW said:


> HS,
> You asked the Question. I just gave you the answer sorry you did not like it, What about all of the deer still outside of the fence? if you are in a good area then you should have plenty of deer to shoot. Sounds like you have been high fenced out were you hunting the fence line or something.


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## TRW (Nov 30, 2006)

HydraSports said:


> You gave your answer which is no better than mine, just your opinion, which is not based on any facts. I am not worried about my hunting, I hunt across the entire state on my own land and kill all I choose to, not one inch of high fence. Do I kill 170 class WT, haven't in a while, but I hunt because I like it. You can keep you snide remarks about the fence line, obviously you don't want to engage in a real discussion about this subject.


HS,
No hard feelings. I just have seen what bad neighbors can do to a good low fence ranch. Glad you own your own land and have success hunting it. The deer do belong to the state but as a landowner you also have the right to build a fence as tall as you want. All I am saying is TPW does not have a problem with high fence ranches or I have not heard them complain about them.
TRW


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

I agree, no hard feelings just discussing a point. I know that TPWD does not have a problem with it, but I do. I am certainly in favor of people being able to do whatever they want with their land, including building high fences, until it impacts me as a citizen. Politics and money drive what TPWD wants or does not want, kinda like the red snapper. I used to hunt S. Texas a lot and no high fences, big deer everywhere, now you drive there and all you see is high fences for miles down the roads. Back in the day, the King Ranch had their own brand of high fence, called a high rider on horse back with a 30-30 rifle. I don't hunt there a lot anymore, kinda depresses me to know that what was once the greatest free ranging big deer herds in the world has now been commercialized to this point. Kinda like that deer Sudden Impact, died of infection in his horns just because they had bred and fed him to the point of being unnatural. Just my .02.



TRW said:


> HS,
> No hard feelings. I just have seen what bad neighbors can do to a good low fence ranch. Glad you own your own land and have success hunting it. The deer do belong to the state but as a landowner you also have the right to build a fence as tall as you want. All I am saying is TPW does not have a problem with high fence ranches or I have not heard them complain about them.
> TRW


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## TRW (Nov 30, 2006)

Well since most property is private in Texas and I can not hunt on private property without permision. I could care less if they high fence the place. If you are talking about places that have breeder pens on them . Well from what I understand is they try to get rid of all of the native deer and turn loose the geneticts from pen raised deer wich most are bought from deer breeders so the state does not own them. Not sure what you mean about the Snapper issue Witch TPW stuck up for the people of Texas opting not to close state waters.
TRW


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

I am talking about the original herd of deer that were there when the fence is erected. Those animals are owned by the state. I said in another post that if they bought their own, like exotics, then more power to them, but the original herd is different. I guess my basic issue is that the whole sport has changed in some regions even in the last ten years, from basically an open range sport to one where everyone is more concerned about horns and genetics to the point of absurdity, in my opinion, and it all starts with high fences. If the land owners had to pay for the native deer when they put up the high fences, then they would be less likely to do that. I guess one of the statements that you made in an earlier post about being high fenced out does apply to me, not an immediate neighbor, but close enough to have caused the deer to change, so I do care if they put up high fences. The hunting habits haven't as I know all of those land owners, just the fences being there have changed the deer numbers and quality. Just an observation made over a long time.


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## Rubberback (Sep 9, 2008)

InfamousJ said:


> no, I was being sarcastic... those that think high fence see the deer anytime they want, or "raise it" till they want to shoot it, I just wanted to point out the irony that you can also do the same thing on a low fence place as well...


I went to a high fenced ranch wasn't hunting just taking photos. They had a large pasture with high fence around it .Animals walk in push a lever gate closes & bingo trapped animal. Never asked but I'm sure its where they captured animals for movement to another pasture or some one's ranch.Things you can do if your rich.


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