# Fish ID please..



## Bevo&Pevo (Jul 22, 2008)

Caught this bad boy the other night. The fin along the back runs the length of the fish. It has scales and the mouth on it was huge. I was fishing in Bastrop Bayou where the water is brackish most of the time. We did rock, paper, scissors to see who would take it off. I took the picture!


----------



## tx-fisherdude (Dec 4, 2005)

Looks like a grennel


----------



## Pescador Viejo Loco (May 21, 2004)

*Fish ID*

Broadtailed Afganastan Whale Chaser.


----------



## Capt Scott Reeh (Jan 21, 2006)

yep.......it's a grennel


----------



## Bevo&Pevo (Jul 22, 2008)

I suppose I have never seen one. Thought grennel's were more black, stubby, and had fins like a catfish. At this point I'll go along with ya'.


----------



## jay07ag (Mar 22, 2006)

grennel...cathch alot of them up here in the neches river on bass lures


----------



## railman (Aug 1, 2004)

It's a Bowfin better known as a Grinnel


----------



## Roger (Aug 12, 2005)

If you live in S. Louisiana, they call 'em a choupique.


----------



## jmack (Dec 7, 2006)

chunk em on the bank and leave em..


----------



## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

very ancient-looking fish. probably haven't changed much in the past million years.


----------



## Gary (May 21, 2004)

It's a RedTrout. Very rare, but sometimes a Red and Trout marry first cousins. Belive it or knot, that fish can play a banjo!


----------



## Freshwaterman (May 21, 2004)

*Think used tp call them Green Trout along the bayous in Louisana*


----------



## OxbowOutfitters (Feb 17, 2006)

Thats a mean ol rascal..watch those fingers


----------



## jmack (Dec 7, 2006)

The Bowfin is found in freshwaters of eastern North America and is the only member of its family. Fossil amiids are known world-wide and the oldest are of Jurassic age, 135-195 million years ago. Eocene amiids have been described from British Columbia, Palaeocene and Cretaceous ones from Alberta and Palaeocene and Oligocene ones from Saskatchewan. The genus _Amia_ has been extant for 70 million years; evolutionary change is very slow. 
The general body form of a Bowfin is unmistakable. In addition there is a large bony structure on the underside of the head between the lower jaws known as a gular plate. Branchiostegal rays number 10-13. There are no pyloric caeca. The caudal fin is an abbreviate heterocercal one. Heterocercal tails have the vertebral column turned upwards into the upper lobe of the fin, which is longer than the lower lobe. In the Bowfin, the lobes are not noticeably different in size. Scales are cycloid but are reinforced with ganoin. Some teeth are pointed canines while others are peg-like. Gill rakers are reduced to knobs but bear small spines. 
The Bowfin's relationships to other fishes have long been discussed and large monographs have been written on the details of its anatomy. It is, in a sense, a living fossil, since many related families and species were widespread in the Jurassic and Cretaceous periods, but the Bowfin is the only surviving representative. Unlike sturgeons, the skeleton is bony but it has the heterocercal tail and a trace of a spiral valve. The gular plate, heavy bone plates on the head, and ganoin containing scales are also ancient characters. It is now considered to be related to the Teleostei and, with its fossil relatives, is equal in rank to the thousands of teleost species. The Bowfin swimbladder can be used as a lung since it has an opening to the gut and the internal surface is well-supplied with blood vessels. This fish can survive out of water for a day, and thrives in low oxygen waters such as stagnant swamps. Recent studies have shown that Bowfins cannot aestivate like the tropical lungfishes because they cannot detoxify ammonia waste or reduce metabolism and they die after 3-5 days of air exposure. 
*Bowfin / Poisson-castor*_
Amia calva_ Linnaeus, 1766 
























*Taxonomy* 
Other common names include Dogfish, Mudfish, Mud Pike, Grindle, Grinnell, Griddle, Spot-tail, Lawyer, Cottonfish, Blackfish, Speckled Cat, Scaled Ling, Beaverfish, Cypress Trout, Amie, Poisson de marais and Choupique. Bowfin refers to the long, undulating dorsal fin. 
*Key Characters* 
The gular plate, a large bony structure between the lower jaws on the underside of the head, identifies this freshwater fish. 
*Description* 
The dorsal fin has 42-58 soft rays, the anal fin 9-12 rays and the pectoral fin 16-18 rays. There are 62-70 scales in a complete lateral line. The anterior nostrils have barbel-like flap. 
*Colour* 
The back is a dark-olive or brownish with the flanks mottled, marbled or reticulated with olive and yellow. The belly varies from white to light green. The dorsal fin is dark olive with 2 dark broken stripes, the anal, pelvic and pectoral fins are bright green. Males have an eye spot at the upper caudal fin base. The spot is dark and about twice as large as the eye and is surrounded by an orange or yellow halo. This spot is absent in females. Such eyespots are used to deflect the attack of predators from the eye to the less important tail, which may well give the predator a slap in the face! The anal, pectoral and pelvic fins have orange bases and tips in males. Young fish are lighter overall and have a black margin to the dorsal and caudal fins. There is a narrow stripe from the snout through the eye onto the opercle. Young smaller than 3-4 cm are black. 
*Size* 
Attains 109 cm. The world, all-tackle record from Florence, South Carolina in 1980 weighed 9.75 kg and a 6.7 kg fish was taken from Whitefish Lake, Ontario. 
*Distribution*  
Found from the St. Lawrence and Lake Champlain drainage of southern Québec westward around the Great Lakes in southern Ontario as far as Minnesota. In the south it reaches Florida and Texas. There are no specimens in a museum collection definitively from the NCR. Halkett (1906) mentioned two specimens from the Ottawa River in the Fisheries Museum, Ottawa and Prince _et al_. (1906) also reported two specimens in the Museum from the Ottawa River (presumably the same two fish) but did note they may not have been caught near "the district". Bergeron and Brousseau (1982) and Bernatchez and Giroux (2000) map this species within the NCR but may have based this on Prince _et al_. (1906). However competent fishermen familiar with a wide variety of fishes have reported it from Britannia in the late 1940s, Rockland; and even below the Parliament Buildings, all in the Ottawa River (J. McLoughlin, personal communication, 1986; D. Brunton, in letter, 1987; E. Hendrycks, personal communication, 2000). Chabot and Caron (1996) map a specimen from the Ottawa River, near the mouth of the Gatineau River. 
*Origin* 
This species entered the NCR from a Mississippian refugium (Mandrak and Crossman, 1992). 
*Habitat* 
Bowfins prefer warm quieter waters with a lot of vegetation in lakes and river backwaters. They can survive temperatures up to 35°C in stagnant waters which other predatory fish cannot utilise. However they can be found too in clear water bodies that are quite cool. Bowfins gulp air at the surface even in well-oxygenated water. Their preferred temperature is 30.5°C. Bowfins can aestivate for short periods in a moist chamber, 20 cm in diameter and 10 cm below the soil surface when flood waters recede. 
*Age and Growth* 
Life span may exceed 30 years. Males are smaller than females and probably do not live as long. Bowfins become sexually mature at 3-5 years of age when they are about 61 cm (females) and 45.7 cm (males). Growth is rapid with some fish exceeding 20 cm in the first year of life. 
*Food* 
Food is mainly other fishes, with some crayfishes, aquatic insects and frogs, taken at night after moving into shallower water. The Bowfin feeds by a rapid lunge, opening the mouth to suck in the prey. The opening and closing of the mouth takes about 0.075 seconds. They can also move very stealthily by undulating the dorsal fin, moving both backwards and forwards. 
*Reproduction* 
This species spawns from April to June depending on latitude. Nests are constructed by the male in shallow (usually less than 1.5 m), weedy areas of lakes and rivers. The nests are under logs or other objects, or are circular areas up to 76 cm across where all vegetation has been bitten off and removed. The male defends his nest against other males and during the spawning season torn fins are not unusual as nests may be quite close together. Spawning takes place at 16-19°C when the male entices a female into the nest, circles her for 10-15 minutes while she lies on the bottom of the nest, and nips her snout and flanks. The male then lies with the female, their fins vibrate rapidly and eggs and sperm are released within a minute. This may happen 4-5 times over 1-2 hours. Several females may spawn with one male and each female may deposit eggs in more than one nest. Eggs number up to 64,000 in females but number up to 5000 in nests. They stick to the plant roots or gravel in the bottom of the nest. The male guards the eggs and fans them with his pectoral fins. Eggs are 2.8 x 2.2 mm in dimensions. The eggs hatch in 8-10 days and the young use an adhesive snout organ to attach to vegetation for a further 7-9 days while the yolk-sac is absorbed. The male continues to guard and herd the young fry until they are about 10 cm long. The fry form into a ball which follows the male. So defensive are males, that one attempted to attack a human standing on the bank, coming 20 cm or so out of the water and repeating the attack several times. 
*Importance* The Bowfin is a good sport fish on light tackle, but is seldom fished for and is very rare in the NCR. Some are taken elsewhere by spearing while diving. It is edible, though not particularly tasty, and some commercial catches in Ontario have been sent to the United States where it is a more familiar food fish and better appreciated. "Cajun caviar" is made out of the roe in Louisiana. Small Bowfins are excellent aquarium fish because of their "lung", colouration and predatory habits.


----------



## coachlaw (Oct 26, 2005)

FYI, In La. they are called a Choupique (Commonly Shoepick). Green trout are what most of us call a largemouth bass. At least that's how I was brought up. 

Here are some others not all Texans know:

Schpottom - Piggy Perch
Sac-a-Lait - Croppy
I think everyone knows about the Gaspergou


----------



## Roger (Aug 12, 2005)

Green Trout is a Bass.


----------



## Alumachris (Aug 31, 2008)

That is a grinnel the back waters of the sabine river is full of them


----------



## jmack (Dec 7, 2006)

Alumachris said:


> That is a grinnel the back waters of the sabine river is full of them


So are the back waters of the Trinity River.


----------



## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

also call them Cypress bass.


----------



## sandollr (Jun 6, 2008)

Anybody ever eat one of them? Cause that sure doesn't look like anything worth putting on a stringer.


----------



## Dookie Ray (Apr 9, 2008)

I agree 100% grennel. Beat it on the head and throw it in for the crabs to eat. Watch the gill plates, they are like razors. Had some *****#@!& put some of them in my dad's pond and they nearly wiped out the perch and small fish. Had to seine the pond to get them out.


----------



## scubaru (Mar 28, 2005)

mastercylinder said:


> very ancient-looking fish. probably haven't changed much in the past million years.


Definately a cull, I only had him at 3 1/2.


----------



## Johnny9 (Sep 7, 2005)

Do not try to eat one as all you will do is chew and chew and chew.


----------



## haparks (Apr 12, 2006)

i have hooked many grenal but never landed one very mean very sharp teeth and will destroy a lure


----------



## fish hawk (Feb 12, 2008)

howdy all it is a grinnel or a choupique like roger sayed. thay like back water.


----------



## monkeyman1 (Dec 30, 2007)

Roger said:


> If you live in S. Louisiana, they call 'em a choupique.


in south louisiana, they call 'em supper! just kiddin' roger! :ac550:


----------



## redduck (Jul 26, 2006)

I have caught several. One 12 pounder in Toledo Bend. I never tried to eat. When given away I was told the best was is to make fish patties ground up with onions, crackers, etc.


----------



## pg542 (Oct 9, 2006)

redduck said:


> I have caught several. One 12 pounder in Toledo Bend. I never tried to eat. When given away I was told the best was is to make fish patties ground up with onions, crackers, etc.


Don't forget the shingle. lol.


----------



## Roger (Aug 12, 2005)

Monkeyman,
If it walks ,crawls or flys we'll find a way to cook it and eat it. :rotfl:


----------

