# Sneaky @#[email protected]#$%S!!!



## railbird (Jan 2, 2009)

WPP group has started the assault. So much for chugger keeping us informed. Here is a copy of a press release from WPP after the fact.

http://www.wadepaddlepole.net/Downloads/PressRelease.pdf

They argued for LIFA's *L*ow *I*mpact *F*ishing *A*reas. This is what we have to be on top of. They will lie and distort and make crazy claims and as long as there is nobody to call them on it we will lose. They are a small group of elitists who grew up fishing the hole, and are responsible for the closing of those areas down south from 95-00. Their goal is to take back "thier water" from fishermen who use the area differently. They want to force all users to use it their way or stay out.

chuck


----------



## JohnnyWalkerRed (May 3, 2007)

what's the combat plan? Burn all the flats daily, LOL!


----------



## railbird (Jan 2, 2009)

I am not a burner, I do not burn to find fish. I do like the ability to access the flat and leave the flat in a responsible manner. This group wants all PB access banned on flats. That is their final goal, no question, don't believe their statements to the contrary. Its about incrimentalism. These jokers want all access banned unless it is done on foot or from a kayak.


----------



## paymerick (May 19, 2010)

Hmmm... I will give it to them, *"These world class fishing areas are being loved to death.*" is a pretty smooth line... but the rest still disturbs me...

*Increased fishery disturbance*

Too vague... please explain! Are we causing the fish some type of trauma by our boats driving by? Where then can we drive our boats that would be safe for the fish? The fish are everywhere...

*Increased Safety Issues*

If it's too dangerous for you, stay in a boat, nobody is making you get out in the water, or get out there in a low-profile, sometimes hard to see kayak... when you get outside of these LIFAs are you really any safer? Is the kayaker paddling through Fisherman's Cut in POC safe? I'd say no safer than they are out on the flats... That's it, shut your motors down when nearing fisherman's cut from either the ICW or Barroom Bay...

*Increased User Conflicts*

Yah, saw about a 15 person brawl going down on the Boggy Bayou shoreline last Saturday... swear I saw Vince McMahon hit a boater with a paddle...

*Increased Habitat Damage*

Hmmm, when I see "Texas Wade, Paddle and Pole", any concern about the habitat seems to be void in the name... but go ahead, we'll be the ones laughing when the same government you so willingly begged to give you your own special spots decides you can't wade or pole there because your footprints and pole-marks are destroying the flats...

*"TxWPP wishes to begin a dialogue among coastal user groups to find reasonable management solutions.........."*

I'm all for it...

As I've said before, I wade these flats, I kayak these flats (though not often, but enjoy it very much), I plan on poling these flats, so I'm not against this because I'm not one of you guys, but going to the government first is not the solution... let's really start this dialogue, let's all get together... let's contact the map-makers, decide on some spots to get on the map that let inexperienced boaters, who all buy maps, know that these spots have grass we need to look out for... kayakers we need to look out for... polers we need to look out for... but I've run out of patience with Big Brother and I'm getting tired of seeing his nose everywhere I go...


----------



## paymerick (May 19, 2010)

paymerick said:


> *Increased User Conflicts*
> 
> Yah, saw about a 15 person brawl going down on the Boggy Bayou shoreline last Saturday... swear I saw Vince McMahon hit a boater with a paddle...


And YES, I know that's probably not what they mean by _user conflicts_...


----------



## paymerick (May 19, 2010)

Ooops, forgot the mention of duck hunters being allowed during duck season... how nice of you to let the duck hunters run through _your_ waters to duck hunt... off-limits still when they go to set their blinds up?

I don't duck hunt, so have no personal beef there... doesn't mean it doesn't sound effed up...


----------



## Rippin_drag (Sep 2, 2008)

WPP? First i've heard of that group. Sounds like a pretty weak attempt at what their doing.


----------



## Bocephus (May 30, 2008)

Nothing worse than a group of elitist pricks...


----------



## rat race (Aug 10, 2006)

Rippin_drag said:


> WPP? First i've heard of that group. Sounds like a pretty weak attempt at what their doing.


Weak attempt or not if they keep complaining and there is not opposition they are almost assured to get their way. Someone needs to stand up for the rights of all who like to fish the hole and places like it. If they succeed in getting there wish at the hole then where will their next attack be? Shoalwater? Parts of E. Matty? How about no motor boat access to all of Christmas bay.

Don't laugh it is very possible. The one thing we can do as motor boat users is to remember to have respect for the resource and don't give the WPP folks any fodder for their cannons.

RR


----------



## railbird (Jan 2, 2009)

They are using the lighthouse lakes as their test case for getting more water down south and up north. They want to get a precident established there, so they can expand into more water. They have already created an acrynim for there thievery. They are arguing that it is done with bow hunting why not give kayakers there own water. One of the arguements made,. was PB'rs intimidate with their greater horsepower. They are exclusively trying to use sea grass damage as the red herring to legislate out PB's from fishing the LHL's. They are excluding air boats and jet drives, but its about the sea grass. lol

chuck


----------



## JohnnyWalkerRed (May 3, 2007)

I guess you could say that we dont need anymore more "big boat running shallow" videos huh! That might be a start!


----------



## Bayscout22 (Aug 9, 2007)

Just so I have the fact straight...

The guys with the little boats are the elitists? It usually works the other way around.


----------



## paymerick (May 19, 2010)

JohnnyWalkerRed said:


> I guess you could say that we dont need anymore more "big boat running shallow" videos huh! That might be a start!


Yah, though a really enjoyed that thread, we may need to avoid throwing more chum out...

And maybe make some videos of people shutting their motors down and giving waders water and stuff... "hey, you looked thirsty..."


----------



## paymerick (May 19, 2010)

Bayscout22 said:


> Just so I have the fact straight...
> 
> The guys with the little boats are the elitists? It usually works the other way around.


Uhm not necessarily... If guys with the big boats believed their way was the best and wanted it to be the only way with the help of government enforcement then YES... But they're not doing that...

It seems this group thinks their way is the best and want to use the government to make it the ONLY way in areas... that's an elitist attitude!


----------



## mikedeleon (Aug 9, 2010)

So is there any plan from the opposing view point to get their voice heard in some sort of official capacity other than talking about it on the internet? Talking about it on the internet can generate momentum, but if they are the ones in front of the people who make the decisions constantly voicing their issue without an opposing side then you guys are surely going to lose. Just asking. 

I don't know enough about the WPP group to figure out what they are all about so I ain't taking sides, just making an observation.


----------



## bud1971 (Aug 10, 2009)

I was thinking about this yesterday.....and limiting access to public areas via legislation such as this does not protect the resource IMO. The way to protect the resource is to encourage as many people as possible to fish, hunt, boat etc.....while educating them, preferably as children, the responsible and ethical ways to enjoy that resource. Our license fees to TPWD do a lot more for the habitat with more of us on the water! Catering to the few will dry those funds up........


----------



## paymerick (May 19, 2010)

mikedeleon said:


> So is there any plan from the opposing view point to get their voice heard in some sort of official capacity other than talking about it on the internet? Talking about it on the internet can generate momentum, but if they are the ones in front of the people who make the decisions constantly voicing their issue without an opposing side then you guys are surely going to lose. Just asking.
> 
> I don't know enough about the WPP group to figure out what they are all about so I ain't taking sides, just making an observation.


You make a great point...

Folks against these LFIAs, besides talking about it here what do we do?

Is there some type of group already opposing it publically?


----------



## paymerick (May 19, 2010)

bud1971 said:


> I was thinking about this yesterday.....and limiting access to public areas via legislation such as this does not protect the resource IMO. The way to protect the resource is to encourage as many people as possible to fish, hunt, boat etc.....while educating them, preferably as children, the responsible and ethical ways to enjoy that resource. Our license fees to TPWD do a lot more for the habitat with more of us on the water! Catering to the few will dry those funds up........


Yep, I believe we can handle this privately...


----------



## Rippin_drag (Sep 2, 2008)

paymerick said:


> You make a great point...
> 
> Folks against these LFIAs, besides talking about it here what do we do?
> 
> Is there some type of group already opposing it publically?


ditto.

And why are fisherman "groups" always going head to head? Why can't we all just quit the b!tchin and go fishin?

I could care less how you fish or how you get there to fish as long as your not breaking the law or being a jerk out there.


----------



## paymerick (May 19, 2010)

Rippin_drag said:


> ditto.
> 
> And why are fisherman "groups" always going head to head? Why can't we all just quit the b!tchin and go fishin?
> 
> I could care less how you fish or how you get there to fish as long as your not breaking the law or being a jerk out there.


Hell, I wouldn't mind working WITH TxWPP to try and find consumer/private sector solutions to the problem...

I just think there is a list of last resorts, ultimate last resort first:

1.) Federal Gov't Regulation
2.) State Gov't Regulation
3.) Local Gov't Regulation

We need to avoid these at all costs... too many times the people have gotten the government to regulate things and the government has taken the inch and made it into a foot... You don't fill your house with rattlesnakes to get rid of mice, do you?

Make no mistake about it, WPP, you're just submitting a blueprint to a buncha suits with the caps already pulled off of their red pens, waiting to give you what *they* think is best because they are smarter than us... Yes, smarter than us is what you think they are, seeing how willing you are to hand over OUR fishing activities to them... "They know best!"

I think we can work this thing out without the government regulations... TPW can be used to provide our suggested spot in their hunting/fishing guides, EVERYONE looks at those... As I've said time and time again, get with the map makers to include spots etc...

Let us do it ourselves...


----------



## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

obviously the wpp people are bored with life and nothing better to do


----------



## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

It's way past time to require all boats to be registered with the state. They all float in the same water, and should be paying the same fees.


----------



## speckledred (Jun 1, 2004)

If no PB areas are allowed then with 1" eventually equals 1 mile train of thought that prevails and we we all end up with the "no fishing zones" as perscribed in other states. We do not need additional legislation.


----------



## paymerick (May 19, 2010)

We need education and information, no further regulation or there will be no hesitation in the government's domination of the folks of this nation at home under incarceration with only the options of masturbation or remotes to turn the station 'cos of the idle hands of this generation do not swat back the control of all creation such an evil equation couldn't be better brewed by satan...

Dunno what that was all about, figured I'd rhyme "tion's" for a bit...

Please excuse me...


----------



## shallowgal (Jun 11, 2004)

TxWPP says they want to put together a meeting/forum where all the different "user groups" (I guess that means anglers/outdoorsmen) can voice our opinions & concerns and so we can form one voice. Here are a few of the main opinions & concerns I have:

1. I don't think any action should be taken to limit anyone's access to any part of the bays unless there is scientific proof that the fish are being harmed directly by boaters. They claim it is common sense that this is happening so it should be able to be proven first.

2. If/when an area does get closed off there had better be designated channels for boats to run so we can get around in there. I know plenty of anglers who can't physically pole or kayak very far. This would cause minimal damage to the grass.

3. In my opinion if any regulation occurs, I don't think it will ever be lifted and will only get worse & more restrictive over the years. (the "slippery slope" argument)

4. If TxWPP doesn't want people thinking they are going behind our backs to further their own agenda they need to be upfront about everything they do. I pointed out that no one told us they were going to the meeting in San Antonio when they had many opportunities to do so if they truly want to hear our side of the story too. TxWPP agreed it would be a good idea for them to post up on the local fishing forums when they are planning on making a move.

5. They claim they want to bring "all user groups together" for a common cause, but it seems pretty clear they are demonizing Power boats, making it a "everyone esle vs. Powerboaters" scenario. I think we all need to band together.

6. TxWPP needs to put maps on their site with exactly what areas they are interested in making a LIFA or MFA.

7. We don't think it is fair to punish 90% of the boating population for the maybe 10% who are being idiots and abusing the resource.

8. We all support education over regulation!


----------



## paymerick (May 19, 2010)

Get 'em, shallowgal


----------



## Tight Knot (Sep 8, 2004)

Not one post by Chugger on this thread...........Typical.

I agree with with you Shallowgal. #3 is the big one.

Tight Knot


----------



## railbird (Jan 2, 2009)

Chuggers prolly been on the road, thats got to be why we didn't know about this till after the fact.


----------



## impulse (Mar 17, 2010)

Mont said:


> It's way past time to require all boats to be registered with the state. They all float in the same water, and should be paying the same fees.


I agree that the line could be drawn differently, but where do you draw it? Today, it's all boats over 16' (except kayaks and canoes) and all powered boats, including kayaks and canoes. Removing the exemption for canoes and kayaks would have little effect since most are under 16' anyway. Make it 10' and you'll just create a market for 9'11" kayaks.

Make it "all boats" and you would need to register an inner tube to float the Guadalupe, and register a surfboard or body board. And there's the question of float tubes, aka belly boats. Then you have problems with reciprocity and out of state tourists (and their tourist $$$) bringing their "non-powered floating implements" into the state.

My fear is that they'd go the other way and tie the fee to the value or length of the boat and drive the fees way up for larger boats in an effort to extract even more money from the boating public. In theory, they're already doing that with fuel taxes, but most boaters I know fill up on the highway so those fees don't go to support the resource.


----------



## deke (Oct 5, 2004)

shallowgal said:


> TxWPP says they want to put together a meeting/forum where all the different "user groups" (I guess that means anglers/outdoorsmen) can voice our opinions & concerns and so we can form one voice. Here are a few of the main opinions & concerns I have:
> 
> !


How nice of them. Problem is no one else wants to close down areas but them, so why would we want to form one voice? Them saying that is so arrogant, it just assumes that this will happen so we better get on board with THEM. It is not their place to speak for anyone but their EXTREMELY SMALL GROUP of elitists.

They are acting just like a Democrat would, a page right out of the liberal handbook; 
-a small minority believes it has the right to speak for all
-they believe they know more than you, and know what is right for you better than you do
-they have zero facts to back up their ridiculous claims, they go off of feelings not facts 
-over react to what a few are doing and punish the masses by making hasty changes without consideration for anyone or anything
-when all else fails attack your opponent and try to discredit them by any means necessary, any means, facts be damed
- if all that doesn't work go straight to the government to solve any issue they have, because they can't do for themselves, and they need the govt to force their beliefs on others.(this one can be used as the first move, and often is)

Shallowgal, thanks for the info and heads up, much appreciated. I'm guessing you might not get invited to the next one,lol.


----------



## FishinFoolFaron (Feb 11, 2009)

The tree huggers are branching out. 
There are extremist in every group.


----------



## chicken (Mar 21, 2005)

shallowgal said:


> TxWPP says they want to put together a meeting/forum where all the different "user groups" (I guess that means anglers/outdoorsmen) can voice our opinions & concerns and so we can form one voice. Here are a few of the main opinions & concerns I have:
> 
> 1. I don't think any action should be taken to limit anyone's access to any part of the bays unless there is scientific proof that the fish are being harmed directly by boaters. They claim it is common sense that this is happening so it should be able to be proven first.
> 
> ...


x2 - this is a hot topic here and on another forum I frequent. I am not ashamed to say I am a kayak fisherman and I can honestly say that I am against ANY form of regulation, closure, limitations, etc. As shallowgal said in #8, "We all support education over regulation" and I for one have endorsed education. To have this happen though, we all need to be responsible and if your fellow kayak fisherman or power boater is doing something wrong, tell them in a nice way, educate them. Yes there are turds in kayaks and yes there are turds in power boats, we have to be responsible and police our own. One of my favorite quotes is "If you don't discipline your kids, the justice system will have to do it". Just replace the justice system with regulations in our case and we will loose our freedoms on the water forever. In spite of what rumors are being spread on both sides, the majority of kayak fisherman are extremely safe and the majority of power boaters are extremely respectable. We both have our hand full of turds we need to educate.

Happy Fishin'
chicken :wink:


----------



## Team Burns (May 6, 2008)

shallowgal said:


> 8. We all support education over regulation!


Strong point!!! For example, since I have been saltwater fishing a couple of facts have really impacted the fish I keep. Females % over 19" and general fishing pressure in a given area. Sometimes educating the "consumer" really helps!!!


----------



## paymerick (May 19, 2010)

How the hell do the people like you and me here that don't want this regulation COUNTER it?

Do we need our own group?

Because if these guys are the only ones talking in Austin, and we're sitting here on our rears, there's no opposition...

Honestly I think they're scared to have an open discussion...


----------



## paymerick (May 19, 2010)

Does WPP have local chapters or anything? I'd like to go to a meeting of theirs... do I need to join them to get more info...


----------



## Hogheaven (May 25, 2004)

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/business/about/commission/commissioners/

Heres your commissioners... Right now they know one side of the story. Give em the other.

Carter P. Smith, Executive Director, of the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department actuall works for the Tpwd


----------



## railbird (Jan 2, 2009)

paymerick said:


> Does .P have local chapters or anything? I'd like to go to a meeting of theirs... do I need to join them to get more info...


Joining won't help, they are a small tight knit group with an agenda. All joining the group will do is give them more numbers and dollars to use. They are not doing the bidding of the group, they are using the group to do their bidding. The only answer is to form an opposition group. Maybe something like " texas flats fishermen for access".


----------



## Hogheaven (May 25, 2004)

Forming a single group wont help... Needs to be a conglomeration of Multiple user groups.

I look forward to these future meeting to discuss this topic. 

All I can Say is SHOW me THE FACTS. Show me how the RFBSA area is failing. SHOW me the increase in Fishing license this year... show me the increase in people... Im looking at five rent house that are not being utilized that are on the water on LABOR DAY weekend. Show me all the accidents involving Kayaks and powerboats reported. 

Enforce what we have.... LESS GOV>


----------



## chicken (Mar 21, 2005)

Hogheaven said:


> Forming a single group wont help... Needs to be a conglomeration of Multiple user groups.


x2, Hogheaven you hit the nail on the head and yes I can say the majority of kayakers (I am one) WANT multiuser group discussions.

We just need to get everyone together. . . . .

Happy Fishin'
chicken


----------



## DMC (Apr 2, 2006)

Bocephus said:


> Nothing worse than a group of elitist pricks...


Actually there is: Activist elitist pricks.


----------



## DMC (Apr 2, 2006)

A wade fishing permit...


----------



## paymerick (May 19, 2010)

railbird said:


> Joining won't help, they are a small tight knit group with an agenda. All joining the group will do is give them more numbers and dollars to use. They are not doing the bidding of the group, they are using the group to do their bidding. The only answer is to form an opposition group. Maybe something like " texas flats fishermen for access".


I don't care what their numbers are right now, they're the only group in the discussion, so 100 members vs. 150 members isn't a factor IMO... money on the other hand, I wouldn't want to contribute, but if I'm not mistaken it's free to join...

sometimes the best thing to do is change things from inside... maybe get involved with some of the ones on the fringe who think it sounds like a great idea but really haven't thought things out yet... right now they just communicate with each other... what happens when a bunch of hot coals just sit there together? the fire stays hot... need to introduce a little bit of water and dirt to the fire to weaken it...

anyway, I've thought about names myself... I like the TFFA you suggested...


----------



## paymerick (May 19, 2010)

Hogheaven said:


> Forming a single group wont help... Needs to be a conglomeration of Multiple user groups.


from what I see/hear there isn't a single group yet being very vocal about this publically when it comes to anti-regulation... yes, a conglomerate would be a hell of a lot more powerful than a single group, but you need at least two groups for that to happen, I don't see any period... but maybe I'm missing one or two (honestly, I just haven't seen it/'em)?

where does TKF stand on this? Others?


----------



## paymerick (May 19, 2010)

open flats anglers of texas - OFAT

Texas anglers for responsable angling (turn it around on them a tad) - TARA

ALF - I dunno, just used to like watching it when I was a kid... Anglers that Love Flats?


----------



## deke (Oct 5, 2004)

Hogheaven said:


> I look forward to these future meeting to discuss this topic.
> 
> All I can Say is SHOW me THE FACTS. Show me how the RFBSA area is failing. SHOW me the increase in Fishing license this year... show me the increase in people... Im looking at five rIIent house that are not being utilized that are on the water on LABOR DAY weekend. Show me all the accidents involving Kayaks and powerboats reported.
> 
> Enforce what we have.... LESS GOV>


No need to discuss this. They have no facts to bring to the table. See my post above. This is a land(water) grab plain and simple. And I have never heard of ONE kayak and boat accident, let alone enough to warrant some kind of legislation. And in reality if anyone needs to be regulated it is kayakers. 
They are lucky one of us haven't run them smooth over yet. In West Bay they go out in the middle of the **** bay in low light conditions and fog and have NO lights, no kind of flag on a pole and wear dark colors. Yeah real smart yak guy. And they get ****** when we have to crank the wheel to avoid them. Stay near the shore where the kayaks belong or put lights and flags on your little toy. Sorry got off on a rant, but these guys get on the water and think they own it.


----------



## paymerick (May 19, 2010)

How about we make it mandatory for all kayaks to be bright orange, or whatever the safest color on the water is... I mean this has a lot to do about safety, right?

MTA's - Managed Traffic Areas... If your kayak isn't the safest color, tough chit!

Honestly the easiest thing to do would be an orange flag about 6 ft high off the back of the yak, but why not make it a tad more inconvenient and go all out with cookie-cutter kayaks?

Oh, and if the flag is 1/16" short of being 6' high: $1,000 fine! because these kayakers need to learn that the government is their protector...


----------



## paymerick (May 19, 2010)

Also for us waders: must wear a wading-belt that is approved by the state with 6' orange flag fixed to the back....


----------



## Bayscout22 (Aug 9, 2007)

paymerick said:


> How about we make it mandatory for all kayaks to be bright orange, or whatever the safest color on the water is... I mean this has a lot to do about safety, right?
> 
> MTA's - Managed Traffic Areas... If your kayak isn't the safest color, tough chit!
> 
> ...


That's a lot of regulation for someone who is against more gov and more regulation.


----------



## paymerick (May 19, 2010)

Bayscout22 said:


> That's a lot of regulation for someone who is against more gov and more regulation.


or it could be a lot of sarcasm....


----------



## chicken (Mar 21, 2005)

deke said:


> Sorry got off on a rant, but these guys get on the water and think they own it.


I guess this is the pot calling the kettle black? 

Just look under your username, that says it all (just an observation).

Yes, I admit there is not much love between kayaks and powerboats as BOTH groups have their idiots. Problem is the minority is speaking up while the majority is silent. Kayakers, waders, powerboaters, air boats, jet skis (yes they're fishing with those) and bank fisherman all need to get together and and make a voice for the MAJORITY or we will loose our liberties and freedoms on the water. We all have more in common than not and that is to freely fish our public waters without restrictions. We, the majority, need to speak up and contribute our argument to the debate or there will be exclusions to EVERY group on the water. Yeah I paddle a kayak, I have ALL the safety equipment (and use it as most kayakers do), and have had nothing but good experiences with ALL of the "other" fisherman on the water because we both had a mutual respect for each other. We are on the water to fish and to share the space with any and all. Let's not have the minority "shove" what most of us do not want down our throats.

Happy Fishin'
chicken


----------



## chicken (Mar 21, 2005)

Mont said:


> It's way past time to require all boats to be registered with the state. They all float in the same water, and should be paying the same fees.


As one who paddles a kayak I can not agree more. There needs to be education involved with boating (and kayaking) and I have no problem paying the registration to achieve this.

Happy Fishin'
chicken :wink:


----------



## deke (Oct 5, 2004)

chicken said:


> I guess this is the pot calling the kettle black?
> 
> Just look under your username, that says it all (just an observation).


Dam straight. Don't forget it.


----------



## McTrout (May 22, 2004)

Hey guys, we all wish freeways weren't so crowded either and that people didn't cut us off like they do, but banning lanes for certain vehicles just ain't gonna hunt. 

I know what they're sayin' though. Heck, even J.D. Whitley wanted PCV pipes along the shorelines 10 years ago, so folks wouldn't run inside of them and let the redfish tail on the shorelines like they wanted to. 

What these WPP people need is a good faceman to present the facts, then we work on education instead of legislation. This is about all of us....agree?


----------



## 80 panther (Sep 4, 2010)

Hello my name is Bruce.I'm here to talk to you about these no motor zones.If we don't get on top of this we are going to lose lots of fishing bottom I'm a member of the Texas Air boat Association.We are working on this two.Its going to take everyone!!! to keep our bays open to everyone. I know some of you don't like air boats.Their are some jerks out there but most of us are good people just like y'all and we need to work together on this for both sides. the web site is on southernairboat.com Texas forum


----------



## Hogheaven (May 25, 2004)

Whats up Bruce. Good to see you over here, as well as as SouthernA. This topic has got a lot of attention from all facets. And Rightly so. 

See you out on the flats.


----------



## chicken (Mar 21, 2005)

deke said:


> Dam straight. Don't forget it.


Thought so and that's the attitude which will get you off the bay as the minority organizes and gets their BANS in place.

Just as the other guy who chose a Haynie, Majek or Kenner among others, I chose a kayak to fish in. In spite of floating on a piece of plastic, I am VEHEMENTLY against more regulation, more government and bans. What I believe is lost in this discusion is the fact that we are all fisherman here. So what if I paddle to my spot and you motor to your spot, we both wet a line in hopes of a good pull on the other end. The minority control our country right now because they organized and spoke up while the majority cowered to their noise. I for one do not want to see our fishing taking the same course as our country, do you?

Happy Fishin'
chicken


----------



## 80 panther (Sep 4, 2010)

I'm trying to get as many people involved in this as i can. Been busy sending out E-mails and letters to Twp. hope to get my boat back together soon so i can hunt some ducks !!! BE SAFE


----------



## Pocketfisherman (May 30, 2005)

I've got a sailing skiff, and I want a sail boat only area to fish. I'm gonna get all my sailing buddies (both of them) together and form a group to lobby TPWD.


----------



## deke (Oct 5, 2004)

chicken said:


> Thought so and that's the attitude which will get you off the bay as the minority organizes and gets their BANS in place.
> 
> Just as the other guy who chose a Haynie, Majek or Kenner among others, I chose a kayak to fish in. In spite of floating on a piece of plastic, I am VEHEMENTLY against more regulation, more government and bans. What I believe is lost in this discusion is the fact that we are all fisherman here. So what if I paddle to my spot and you motor to your spot, we both wet a line in hopes of a good pull on the other end. The minority control our country right now because they organized and spoke up while the majority cowered to their noise. I for one do not want to see our fishing taking the same course as our country, do you?
> 
> ...


LOL, you must not spend much time on here. Lighten up Francis.


----------



## shallowgal (Jun 11, 2004)

I don't think an "us Vs. them" mentality is going to get us very far here. They say they are willing to work together with all "user groups" to try and achieve some common goals. It would be ideal to get a representative from each "user group" (kayakers, waders, power boaters, dealers/manufacturers, hunters, air boaters, guides, etc) together to present each groups main objectives and concerns. However, that would be hard to make a reality. If a bunch of people did get together it would probably end up being an unorganized mess of yelling, and TxWPP is afraid it will turn into a lynch mob.

Forums like this one are a great way to get our opinions heard. We know the board members of TxWPP read these posts, so they should be well aware of our concerns. It would be great if we could use this site and others like it as a venue to have our questions and concerns answered by the people at TxWPP, and to work together that way.

Of course, to successfully do that, TxWPP will have to be willing to come on these forums and be very upfront about everything they are doing and what they believe in, and we in turn would have to be reasonable and leave the attacks and name calling out of it. Stick to the issues.

*TxWPP....what do you say? Sounds reasonable to me.*


----------



## railbird (Jan 2, 2009)

The only reason txwpp is afraid of a lynch mob is they know they are wrong and are going to screw the rest of the fishermen to get what they want. I guess will/chugger is thru on this board since he broke his word on the 1st meeting out of the box. Will meyers where are you?


----------



## deke (Oct 5, 2004)

shallowgal said:


> I don't think an "us Vs. them" mentality is going to get us very far here. They say they are willing to work together with all "user groups" to try and achieve some common goals. It would be ideal to get a representative from each "user group" (kayakers, waders, power boaters, dealers/manufacturers, hunters, air boaters, guides, etc) together to present each groups main objectives and concerns. However, that would be hard to make a reality. If a bunch of people did get together it would probably end up being an unorganized mess of yelling, and TxWPP is afraid it will turn into a lynch mob.
> 
> Forums like this one are a great way to get our opinions heard. We know the board members of TxWPP read these posts, so they should be well aware of our concerns. It would be great if we could use this site and others like it as a venue to have our questions and concerns answered by the people at TxWPP, and to work together that way.
> 
> ...


Sounds reasonable. But again, IMO we don't need to get together and talk because no one has their goals but them. We don't need to conform to them, they want water closed, no one else does. If anything they need to come to the rest of us with FACTS or just shut the **** up and go away.


----------



## chugger (Jul 12, 2009)

A Correction:
TWPP did not say that we would keep everyone informed about every meeting and hearing that occurs in the state of Texas in which TWPP might play a role.
The particular hearing that the thread originator focuses upon was the TPWD Annual Public Hearing that the entire Texas general public was invited to voice their comments or complaints, pertaining to TPWD topics.
This was well publicized on the TPWD site, and actually the link was provided on the TWPP site.
Posting up every TPWD or other govt. meeting goes beyond the scope of our organization's duties or obligations.

TWPP did say that we would keep all informed concerning a SPECIFIC coast wide workshop that is being planned to discuss bay user population growth and it's impacts.
We also said in past posts here that a date had not been set, and that we would inform everyone when it was set.
As of yesterday the date was set: Jan. 7th and 8th./ 2011.
Site: Corpus Christi / Harte Institute at A&M CC
Working Title: "Challenges To Sharing Our Bays"
Hosts: Harte Inst. and Coastal Bend Bays Fndt.
The workshop hosts will invite representatives from a broad spectrum of bay users ,organizations,associations,and govt. agencies to participate.
At least that is the most current plan, the Harte Inst. and CBBF are still working on the details.
It is TWPP's personal wish to see as many bay users represented as possible for a fully collaborative effort.
We look forward to this coast wide summit -- it is long over due.

Quote, shallowgal
"Of course, to successfully do that, TxWPP will have to be willing to come on these forums and be very upfront about everything they are doing and what they believe in, and we in turn would have to be reasonable and leave the attacks and name calling out of it. Stick to the issues. 
TxWPP....what do you say? Sounds reasonable to me."
END QUOTE

TWPP has participated in several chat threads, both here at 2cool and elsewhere, in an effort to make our position clear and to correct misinformation.
It has gotten rough at times, but that's alright -- we understand that passions runs deep in regards to coastal resources and fishing.
Any discussion is better than burying our heads in the sand.

We feel our web site explains our position clearly :

http://wadepaddlepole.net/index.html

We do not mind answering questions,or reading comments, and our site actually provides a form to do so:

http://wadepaddlepole.net/contact.html

We have made some recent revisions to our site -- some as a result of concerns voiced at a meeting we had in Donna Tx., 9/2/10, with 'shallowgal' and the owner of Dargel boats, among others.The concerns that 'shallowgal' listed in her first post on this thread were topics discussed at that 2 1/2 hr. meeting.
( Please hit the refresh button on each web site page to pull up the newly revised site pages.)

We prefer meeting face to face, we find it much more productive than chat forums for a serious discussion on serious issues.
Hopefully the Jan. workshop and other meetings will provide the infrastructure for this to occur on a large and inclusive scale.
We understand that not everyone can attend these meetings, and this chat forum provides an outlet for your opinions.
Keep it factual, civil, free of insults -- and TWPP will be glad to participate.


----------



## shallowgal (Jun 11, 2004)

I posted the recap of the issues/concerns that I brought up at our meeting in order to try to consolidate some of the things I have read on this forum into the main points to be addressed. I hope I did a good job of representing the people here, as well as powerboaters in general.


```
We prefer meeting face to face, we find it much more productive than chat forums for a serious discussion on serious issues.
Hopefully the Jan. workshop and other meetings will provide the infrastructure for this to occur on a large and inclusive scale.
We understand that not everyone can attend these meetings, and this chat forum provides an outlet for your opinions.
Keep it factual, civil, free of insults -- and TWPP will be glad to participate.
```
This is exactly what I meant by my last post. A lot of people wont be able to make it to any meetings but want and deserve to have their questions answered. I think this forum and others (I find that people tend to stick to one forum or another) is a good resource we all can use to disseminate information. Thank you for posting the link on the TxWPP page where questions may be directly submitted.

As for the workshop, I know its impossible to make it convenient for everyone, but I hate to hear that it is the weekend of the Houston International Boat Show, which is one of the most important events in the Marine Industry involving most manufacturers, and many important dealers, guides and others whose livelihood could be directly affected by regulation.


----------



## chugger (Jul 12, 2009)

"This is exactly what I meant by my last post. A lot of people wont be able to make it to any meetings but want and deserve to have their questions answered. I think this forum and others (I find that people tend to stick to one forum or another) is a good resource we all can use to disseminate information. Thank you for posting the link on the TxWPP page where questions may be directly submitted." Quote shallowgal

"We understand that not everyone can attend these meetings, and this chat forum provides an outlet for your opinions.
Keep it factual, civil, free of insults -- and TWPP will be glad to participate." Quote chugger

I am not sure how I could have been more clear that TWPP is willing to discuss issues on this forum. (-- that is until the vilification begins.)
We welcome a civil debate which progresses the discussion concerning the future of our shallow fishery. 

"As for the workshop, I know its impossible to make it convenient for everyone, but I hate to hear that it is the weekend of the Houston International Boat Show, which is one of the most important events in the Marine Industry involving most manufacturers, and many important dealers, guides and others whose livelihood could be directly affected by regulation." Quote shallowgal

In the e mail I sent the day after the meeting to the Donna meeting participants , recapping your concerns, I requested from both you and the Dargel owner, the upcoming boat show schedule.

" I look forward to hearing from everyone in regards to dates and potential participants in the " Valley Summit".
While looking at your calendars, please also try to find a good time for you to attend the coast wide forum in Corpus Christi.
How about in January? I do not know the boat show schedule ." excerpt from my e mail dated 9/2/10

I did not receive a reply to that request from either party ,so I assumed this was not a major concern for you.
Hunting seasons,boat show season,winter holidays,the busy schedule of the Harte Inst. and the CBBF,etc.-- all make it difficult to find a time that is not encumbered in some way for some people.
I feel sure that if the workshop hosts find the participant response to that date unsatisfactory --they will change it.


----------



## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

people.. quit giving this group any credit.... they are farting in the wind.


----------



## deke (Oct 5, 2004)

And still will not give any facts to support their land grab, and will not say where, and how much water they want to take. They just keep talking in circles.


----------



## chugger (Jul 12, 2009)

deke said:


> And still will not give any facts to support their land grab, and will not say where, and how much water they want to take. They just keep talking in circles.


TWPP is in the process of drafting a website page of responses for commonly voiced concerns.
Deke voices two of those common concerns above:

TWPP Response:

1. " Science is needed to prove human impacts on the coastal shallow fishery."

Is such scientific proof currently available? No, but TWPP would welcome such a study, and we have begun conversations with scientists to that end.
Our only reservation is that many seem very skeptical of research findings ,and we would not want to see an expensive study and the time it entails wasted, because the study results are being dismissed sumarrilly due to this inherent distrust.
There is also a flip side to this science "coin" which changes the burden of proof: Prove that human activity in shallow coastal waters IS NOT causing fishery disturbance which results in biological and behavioral changes. 
The common sense, anecdotal assertion, would be that it does. Why else would people seek out uncrowded areas to fish? Why else do you see so 
many internet forum posts complaining about fishing pressure and crowding issues?
Good science,however,does not proceed from prior anecdotal assumptions --- either side of the coin-- it searches for facts.
"To be termed scientific, a method of inquiry must be based on gathering observable, empirical and measurable evidence subject to specific principles of reasoning." 
from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method

2. " TxWPP does not mention specific areas for an Low Impact Fishing Area( LIFA) designation - why?"

We feel it is best to work from the general concept of an LIFA towards the specifics in a collaborative,participatory manner.
It would be both premature and presumptive for TWPP to suggest a specific area without the input of other coastal user groups.
If any specific area is selected,it should be the end result of this process,not the beginning.
TPWD and GLO will have the final say in any area designated -- not TWPP.


----------



## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

to whomever called this group elitists.. you got it all wrong.. they are radicals


----------



## Bocephus (May 30, 2008)

InfamousJ said:


> to whomever called this group elitists.. you got it all wrong.. they are radicals


Radical, elitest, pricks....how's that J ??? :biggrin:


----------



## rvrrat14 (Sep 9, 2006)

I am gonna start fishing with an innertube. I want special priviliges to fish places that you can't, just because. I'm gonna use a stick of dynamite for bait and only collect the first 27 1/2 trout that come to the surface, regardless of size. Oh, and I'm gonna hide behind the fact that I'm a mullet wearing hillbilly and that's how we roll. And if anyone gets in my way, I'm gonna blow a loud whistle and call 911 from my waterproof cell phone and report you to PETA, EPA, NRC, NRA, USCG, NAACP, NAFTA, and EIEIO, just for starters. Oh, we can all have a meeting to discuss and I'll be glad to tell you all why only I can fish in certain spots and the pure logic behind that. I think that clearly covers it.

"... and Harry, Trent, and Jimmy, where ever you are $#%@ You Too!" quote from Al Pacino as Col. Slade in Scent of a Woman.

ROFFL!!!!!

Have a safe and enjoyable 9/11, and reflect a moment of days gone by.


----------



## railbird (Jan 2, 2009)

_Chuggers political double speak, is enough for me to not trust anything he says in this area. To say we are waiting for the scientific input to decide which area we want to steal is a farse. They know which areas they are going for, they know its going to cause mass oposition. Their best chance is to pay off politicians with campaign contributions and just steal it from the fishing public. _


----------



## deke (Oct 5, 2004)

chugger said:


> 1. " Science is needed to prove human impacts on the coastal shallow fishery."
> 
> Is such scientific proof currently available? No, but TWPP would welcome such a study, and we have begun conversations with scientists to that end.
> Our only reservation is that many seem very skeptical of research findings ,and we would not want to see an expensive study and the time it entails wasted, because the study results are being dismissed sumarrilly due to this inherent distrust.
> ...


So you have no evidence, but you just THINK it is. Yeah, that makes sense. And we do NOT HAVE TO PROVE ANYTHING TO YOU. The "flip side" is BS. No logical person runs off of assumptions, unless the assumption is the outcome that YOU want. You are making up problems so you can then try to get your agenda through.

And we don't want to collaborate with you, because there is nothing to collaborate about. You have no facts to prove your gripe, so your position is irrelevant. TP&W shouldn't even have to worry about this, because it is a non issue, and we will all fight to make sure it remains that way.

The more you post the worse you group looks. I is flat out evident that this is just for purely selfish personal reasons. Since you can provide no evidence to counter that, your group is just looks like a small group of selfish elitists that is trying to make people believe there is a problem because it benefits you.


----------



## rsparker67 (Mar 30, 2008)

don't forget,.... it's a safety issue.... remember


----------



## shallowgal (Jun 11, 2004)

Hey guys,

I know this is a subject we all feel very passionate about, but I think if we want to be taken seriously and to get the information we need from TxWPP about their agenda we have to keep things civil. As far as I can tell they haven't resorted to insults and name calling yet, whereas we seem to automatically resort to that instead of a serious discussion. I know you all feel attacked by this group, that they are trying to take something away from us, and that has made everyone act defensive. 

I would like to thank Chugger and the people of TxWPP for creating a page on their site (and posting up here) with answers to the specific issues we have presented here, even if those answers aren't necessarily what everyone wanted to hear at this time. 

They seem to be trying to cooperate if we ask nicely.


----------



## chicken (Mar 21, 2005)

deke said:


> So you have no evidence, but you just THINK it is. Yeah, that makes sense. And we do NOT HAVE TO PROVE ANYTHING TO YOU. The "flip side" is BS. No logical person runs off of assumptions, unless the assumption is the outcome that YOU want. You are making up problems so you can then try to get your agenda through.
> 
> And we don't want to collaborate with you, because there is nothing to collaborate about. You have no facts to prove your gripe, so your position is irrelevant. TP&W shouldn't even have to worry about this, because it is a non issue, and we will all fight to make sure it remains that way.
> 
> The more you post the worse you group looks. I is flat out evident that this is just for purely selfish personal reasons. Since you can provide no evidence to counter that, your group is just looks like a small group of selfish elitists that is trying to make people believe there is a problem because it benefits you.


x2 Deke. 

As a kayak fisherman I may make some of my paddlers angry, but first and foremost I am a fisherman, this country is still free and we have liberties. The last thing I want is more regulation and exclusion of some, so others have a privilege.



shallowgal said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I know this is a subject we all feel very passionate about, but I think if we want to be taken seriously and to get the information we need from TxWPP about their agenda we have to keep things civil. As far as I can tell they haven't resorted to insults and name calling yet, whereas we seem to automatically resort to that instead of a serious discussion. I know you all feel attacked by this group, that they are trying to take something away from us, and that has made everyone act defensive.
> 
> ...


shallowgal,

Once again, I'll probably anger my kayak friends, but I post here and on the "kayak" forum. Although you may be correct in let's all be "nice", the hatred goes both ways here and thus my plea with both sides sitting down and working this out. That will be difficult though because of the hatred there is on BOTH sides. Like I said above, I am a fisherman first and my interests are FOR the fisherman, not a kayak, boat, jet ski, air boat, etc. Once there is a realization that we are ALL fisherman, then yes maybe all can sit down and have a discussion.

Bottom line is that we must "police and educate" our own or we all face some sort of regulation.

Happy Fishin'
chicken


----------



## jabx1962 (Nov 9, 2004)

shallowgal said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I know this is a subject we all feel very passionate about, but I think if we want to be taken seriously and to get the information we need from TxWPP about their agenda we have to keep things civil. As far as I can tell they haven't resorted to insults and name calling yet, whereas we seem to automatically resort to that instead of a serious discussion. I know you all feel attacked by this group, that they are trying to take something away from us, and that has made everyone act defensive.
> 
> ...


Bull ****...All "Chugger" and his associates are doing is creating hostility, and eventually there will be an incident(s). There will be some people who will not read the proposal, or hear about any proposed "Rules", or laws.

The only people who give a Rat's *** about the Paddle People's Agenda is themselves.

Nothing to discuss. Nothing to mediate. Nothing to concede.Nothing to defense.Nothing to be nice about.

We can start at stoop, and go from there.


----------



## markbrumbaugh (Jul 13, 2010)

There is already plenty of water too shallow for my boat. Paddlers (and I include myself) can fish in those areas.


----------



## markbrumbaugh (Jul 13, 2010)

*Airboats on the other hand....*

There is already plenty of water too shallow for my boat. Paddlers (and I include myself) can fish in those areas.

Now, on the topic of airboats...I hate them. I hate the noise. I hate where they go. 'Far as I'm concerned it has ruined duck hunting.
I also hate cigarette boats. I hate their noise and absolutely useless purpose. (Viagra substitute) I also hate street lights that keep me from seeing the stars.

I have always enjoyed the peace and solitude of the outdoors. Running an airboat through a bunch of paddlers, is right there with driving a bay boat WOT through a school of fish under birds.

Lot of folks hate jet skis.

Having said my piece, lets try to respect each other. You can do anything you want around me as long as you don't intrude on my ability to enjoy the great outdoors. I can do anything I want as long as I don't intrude on your ability ditto.
What we don't need is the government making more rules about who can do what. We need to be considerate and police ourselves.


----------



## chugger (Jul 12, 2009)

QUOTE Deke:
"I is flat out evident that this is just for purely selfish personal reasons. Since you can provide no evidence to counter that, your group is just looks like a small group of selfish elitists that is trying to make people believe there is a problem because it benefits you." END quote

QUOTE jabx1962
"Nothing to discuss. Nothing to mediate. Nothing to concede.Nothing to defense.Nothing to be nice about." END Quote

There are a few other people out there who feel there is indeed an issue that needs to be faced, that issue being:

A growing population of bay users, with various ideas about how to fish and how to access fishing areas, are sometimes at odds with each other and /or the resource.

Below are a few excerpts taken from articles from Texas Saltwater Fishing Magazine(TSFM) over the last year.
The authors certainly have their own ideas about how to remedy this issue, and if you read the complete articles, you find that is true.
My post should not imply that they are in agreement with TWPP and our particular management ideas. 
What we do appear to be agreeing upon ,at least, is that there is an issue that needs to be discussed.
They certainly thought it merited mentioning in their writing.
These people are not scientist, but they do have an opinion,whether you value that opinion is your business.

These are excerpts taken out of the context of the complete articles.
I would urge you to refer to the complete article for proper context.
Author's names have been left out on purpose so as to not drag them into this discussion.

TSFM Sept 2010 pg 16 http://texassaltwaterfishingmagazine.com/

> I rarely charter in the bays anymore because I am intolerant of rudeness. I refer inquiring customers for bay trips to David Rowsey or Mike McBride because to me there is no fun left in the bays.

TSFM August 2010 pg 6 http://viewer.zmags.com/publication/5dba6862#/5dba6862/8

> "A seemingly endless rise in fishing license sales (TPWD reported 1.2 million in 2008) coupled with sudden and enormous leaps in angling efficiency have created pressure on the fishery like nothing ever seen."

> "Unfortunately, there is no such easy solution to the puzzle of angler density. One thing is certain, though; the problem will not solve itself and will likely continue to grow."

TSFM July 2010 pg 20 http://viewer.zmags.com/publication/6aa1db2d#/6aa1db2d/1

> > "I'm telling you it's almost viral in nature," my friend said with wide eyes and drool running down his chin. "Those flat bottom boats are being produced at an alarming rate and some owners simply will not run in open water due to their design. It's just a better ride up shallow and woe be the poor wade fishermen who's knee deep on the shoreline when they come by."

TSFM June 2010 pg 60 http://viewer.zmags.com/publication/46a59bed#/46a59bed/1

>" When I was a teenager, I honestly, deep down believed, that I would never be able to say, "I remember the good old days."
I thought that between the efforts of conservation programs such as Ducks Unlimited and the Gulf Coast Conservation Association, and the fact that people were recognizing the errors of old ways; things could and would continue to get better. Boy was I ever wrong. You see, the one factor that I did not take into account is the out-of-control boom and redistribution of this country's population. This increase and shift delivered a flood of new "users" to the coast."

> "Two of the biggest issues facing the fishing community today are the decline in our fisheries and the growing conflicts between the users. I believe they are directly related. You see, back when fisheries managers enacted bag limits that are still law, I doubt very seriously whether they could have understood or even predicted the pressure on the resource we see today. Not only has our population grown and to some degree shifted toward the coast, but the average fisherman now enjoys a much improved income and lifestyle and can afford more days on the water. And, through enormous advances in technology, there is no way they could have known how efficient we would become."

TSFM June 2010 pg.84 http://viewer.zmags.com/publication/46a59bed#/46a59bed/1

> "June will bring lots of fishermen to the Lower Laguna and this also qualifies as "heat" in my book. We all just have to deal with it, but we can all help increase each other's enjoyment by practicing good etiquette."

Even railbird likes to discuss these "imaginary" problems :

"I am starting to think there should be some kind of boater safety/ettiquite course required to operate a boat. I drift fish or troll along shorelines, I see it all the time. Guys drifting the same basic water i am will run in front of me strait down wind go around an start right behind me because its closer to take that path than to circle around to the side and behind. If someone is behind you drifting circle around in a way to not cut off ther drift, there is always a right way to not mess up someones drift. It seems people always chose the shortest way instead of the right way. People will burn all over the place looking for fish and then will leave the flat by running in front of someone instead of going an extra mile to go around and behind other fishermen. Is it ignorance or do they just not care? Grown men who fish all the time pull this. "
http://2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/showthread.php?t=293839&highlight=Railbird

Here is a graph from recent TPWD creel surveys which give estimates of "angling effort":


----------



## FalseCast (May 7, 2009)

its been a while since i have posted on 2cool. I frequent another board, and usually stop by 2cool when i have a chance to read up on how you guys have been doing. I am a fly fisherman on the Texas coast. I run a skiff, and I obviously enjoy fishing shallow flats so that I can see the fish that I am casting to. This wpp has obviously been around for a little bit but it has recently come to my attention through another board that these people are actually serious. I am (unfortunately) grouped in with these guys being a fly fisherman on the texas coast, and for that, I truly apologize. This small group of people that wants their private fishing area happen to also be fly fisherman, but they are the worst kind, the one;s that think they are above and beyond any other fisherman on the water. They want to close down areas because they believe noone else that fishes that water, be it in a boat with an outboard or an airboat have and respect for the water they are on. To them I ask this question. How many of those fisherman in those (planned wpp areas) don't support any Texas coast conservation effort they can to be able to fish waters like that? should I start a poll? nah, I think we know the answer to that. I'm not saying that everyone is 100% respectful when navigating the texas flats , but this population that isnt respectful has become increasingly smaller and smaller. I love walking, wading, and poling, don't get me wrong, but to get to some of these areas, we have to be able to run an outboard especially in a 20 mph headwind. Myself, as well as other people that fish these shallow flats know and have spent countless hours figuring out exactly how much water you need to get out of the hole. I will pole myself to a hole that has enough water into it so that I can get on a plane w/o leaving these "prop scars". In reference to prop scars. I ask this. How does an airboat leave a prop scar with no prop??? If this group is truly going to work the angle of ruining the turtle grass and what not, I would like to see an airboat that is ruining any of that when running across any of these flats that are 8-12 in deep. Now, they can go over land and if that is your argument on how it effects the environment then that is a completely different subject (not one of which we should be discussing closing flats over). This group has said they have sent out countless invitations to the public to attend these hearings (i haven't gotten one. have you?). Lets get serious, most of us have families, and we work for a living, cmon. A public hearing?? I have to work 10 hours a day then when I get home I have to work even longer with my kid, do you really think I have time to do that?? Most of you will agree. These people want to keep it off public forums. Well, thanks to the www this happens to now be the best form of communication. So, i guess why I write this is to apologize to the people who feel like they have been belittled by the shallow water fly fisherman of the txwpp. Most of us (who don't have a hidden adgenda to secure private salt water grounds) have ZERO problem with anyone fishing anywhere. Its all about getting out there and having fun wherever and whenever we can. Its not about seggregating certain areas for the few ***** elitists that think they are priveleged to their own fishing grounds just because they are proffessional photographers and many of you folks buy his work. nuff said


----------



## deke (Oct 5, 2004)

Now all your quotes are about "rudeness" and "too many people on the water", all subjective topics. And neither of which was your compliant from the beginning, you want to save the grass and stop scaring the fish. So now you change your tune to suit the pressure coming down on you, and now want to use those BS arguments to push your agenda through. Whats next?


----------



## jabx1962 (Nov 9, 2004)

chugger said:


> QUOTE jabx1962
> "Nothing to discuss. Nothing to mediate. Nothing to concede.Nothing to defense.Nothing to be nice about."


I am sure Everett Johnson appreciates you qouting/plagerising articles in his publication without written permission.

I will repeat myself once again:

"Nothing to discuss. Nothing to mediate. Nothing to concede.Nothing to defense.Nothing to be nice about.

Florida has tons of foreclosed property, and ridiculous laws concerning no prop zones. Just move your group there, and find a tree to hug.

BTW..I am sure Minn Kota appreciates that ****** holding the Permit wearing a Golf Visor that says "Titlelist" in that photo with the article pimping their troling motors.Tell the guy it makes him look more stupid than he really is. Is he your "Life Partner".......seems almost all of you all stay in the same queen bed at the Holiday Inns. Hope we can cross paths one day, and I can teach you to swim...or sink....


----------



## paymerick (May 19, 2010)

Hello,

My name is Tanner Billingstonerleying. I enjoy fishing the flats by rigging up my bait on a remote-controlled boat, putting my reel on free-spool and guiding the boat to where I want my bait and pressing the "drop" button to release the line...

What saddens me is the number of times my line is cut by boaters going by on the flats that don't have the respect to go 500 yards around the area my line is in...

Even worse is when one of those tower boats spot a fish on my line, I tell ya...

Just last weekend my line went slack on the flat... I picked up my binoculars to look to see what just what kind of red had picked up my soaking 1/4 piece of crab 400 yards out... This red looked really good, about a 27" or so... Well just before that red was going to take by bait in comes a tower-boat... It had spotted the red tailing on my crab... This sob actually eases up, throw a top water and gets MY RED to drop MY crab and attack his topwater... BS I say, BS... Do you fools no how long it takes to reel in 400 yds of line for NOTHING? I didn't think so...

But since you inconsiderate pricks won't take it upon yourselves to respect my space, I'm going to the government so that no person can fish within 500 yards of another near the flats...

Bring it on!


----------



## redfishandy (Feb 28, 2009)

why dont you use your boat to bring in your 400 yards of line then. WOOOW


----------



## paymerick (May 19, 2010)

redfishandy said:


> why dont you use your boat to bring in your 400 yards of line then. WOOOW


First off, Earth-hater: mind your own business!

2nd, if you must know, my rc boat was docked at The Fishing Center at the time and I needed my line in before my rc boat got back so I'd be ready to send my line back-out... It's called time management...

And thanks to The Fishing Center in POC, btw... I guided my rc boat up there with an inflatable ice chest in-tow and a $20 bill attached with a note that read "18 of Lite and a bag of ice, please! Oh and if you don't mind, swap these batteries out. Thanks!"... They even threw in the ice for free and waved at the camera on my rc boat... Nice folk!


----------



## Bayscout22 (Aug 9, 2007)

paymerick said:


> First off, Earth-hater: mind your own business!
> 
> 2nd, if you must know, my rc boat was docked at The Fishing Center at the time and I needed my line in before my rc boat got back so I'd be ready to send my line back-out... It's called time management...
> 
> And thanks to The Fishing Center in POC, btw... I guided my rc boat up there with an inflatable ice chest in-tow and a $20 bill attached with a note that read "18 of Lite and a bag of ice, please! Oh and if you don't mind, swap these batteries out. Thanks!"... They even threw in the ice for free and waved at the camera on my rc boat... Nice folk!


Did you run the shoreline to get back to The Fishing Center or did you cross the bay like a big boy?


----------



## paymerick (May 19, 2010)

All bay, baby! Less traffic out there... Plus i had to drop off a beer for my bud fishin' The Hump...


----------



## Finn Maccumhail (Feb 16, 2009)

The real story is, how do you stop people from doing this and tearing up flats, spooking fish, and generally being a ***** to everybody else on the water?


----------



## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

hmm, pulling up a 4 month old thread and posting a link to a private video along with getting censored by the word censor. Not good.


----------

