# Ballistic Silver tips for deer



## bogan

HEllo everyone,

I am in the market for some new ammo. I am not happy with the performance (accuracy) of Core-lokts in my deer rifles so I would like to upgarde. I have a Remington 700 in 30-06 and an X-bolt in .308. I am looking at the Winchester ballistic silver tips for use on whitetails and hogs. Can anyone offer advise on a good round with deep penetration and accuracy?


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## RogerB

There are better rounds - ballistic silver tips aren't necessarily the best and in many cases ranches and hunting operations will not allow you to use ballistic silvertips on hogs, Right or wrong, agree or disagree - the perception is that ballistic silvertips don't provide sufficient penetration, maintain sufficient mass, and don't kill as readily as other rounds. I personally load winchester silvertips. Not the ballistic silvertips but the older winchester silvertips, copper bullet coated, with a silver tip. that load is IMR 4054 53.5 grains for 130 grain bullet. I willl put a bullet through either animal and leave a hole the size of a golf ball on exit.


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## igo320

Love the Winchester Supreme ballistic silver tip factory load for my Ruger 308. Extremely accurate for a factory load in this rifle. Good luck.


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## greg77

*Two words*

Nosler Partition


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## bogan

greg77, 

I do not reload. Is there a factory round that offers a nosler partition? I would be very interested.


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## THE JAMMER

I believe that the silvertips are pretty much the same as Nosler ballistic tips. If they are I will never use them again on game. They are extemely accurate, but they fall apart too much for me. Any bone contact I think destroys these bullets. My kid shot a whitetail at 60 yards with his 7mm-08 and a 120 gr bt, it killed it, but it traveled probably 60 yards- main thing is there was no exit wound and thus no, I mean no blood trail. The inside was totally destroyed, but the bullet blew up too quickly for me.

As opposed to his deer this year- 105 yard shot with 120 barnes XXX. Bullet hit ribs going in, took out the lower third of the spine, and took out ribs and shoulder on its way out the other side.

Anti someone with an AK threatening my family, no problem with the BT's- don't have to track them.

THE JAMMER


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## greg77

bogan said:


> greg77,
> 
> I do not reload. Is there a factory round that offers a nosler partition? I would be very interested.


Sorry about that. I haven't bought centerfire ammo in years but I think Federal Premium is (or was) sold with the partition bullets.


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## bountyhunter

Hornady Customs are the best factory loads on the market in my opinion. Balistic Tips are a bad choice for any large game animals, but are great on yotes and such. 

Hornady Custom interbond rounds have a tip simular to the Balistic Tips but the bullet holds together. I've used these in my .270 for a while and none of the deer I've shot have gotten out of sight. Most hit the dirt immediately but a few have taken a made a few jumps after the shot. I would recommend these to anyone looking for factory loads.


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## Haute Pursuit

THE JAMMER said:


> I believe that the silvertips are pretty much the same as Nosler ballistic tips. If they are I will never use them again on game. They are extemely accurate, but they fall apart too much for me. Any bone contact I think destroys these bullets. My kid shot a whitetail at 60 yards with his 7mm-08 and a 120 gr bt, it killed it, but it traveled probably 60 yards- main thing is there was no exit wound and thus no, I mean no blood trail. The inside was totally destroyed, but the bullet blew up too quickly for me.
> 
> As opposed to his deer this year- 105 yard shot with 120 barnes XXX. Bullet hit ribs going in, took out the lower third of the spine, and took out ribs and shoulder on its way out the other side.
> 
> Anti someone with an AK threatening my family, no problem with the BT's- don't have to track them.
> 
> THE JAMMER


X2 on the Barnes TSX's... they always make 2 holes. Federal Vitalshok's are available in both your calibers.


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## El Carnicero

Wife shot her first buck the last year with her 22-250 with 65gr winchester silver ballistic tips. Classic lung shot in and out not much damage at all. No blood and the animal went maybe 20yds. I shoot the same winchester silver bt's 150gr in my 308 VTR and they are 3/4" accurate at 100yds. I shoot the Nosler 200gr ballistic tips in my 338-378 wby mag and if it is a clean lung shot its golfball size in and out. But good skull bone or center shoulder... there's only gonna be half an animal in the cooler.


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## Screeminreel

bogan,

If you go to Remington, Winchester, Hornady or Federal's web sites they have lists of the bullets loaded into their factory ammo.

For the most part, I would not necessarily look at the premium loads in any of them for hogs or deer. They all load proven cup and core loads which are much cheaper than $35 a box or more. I shoot the Fed 150gr Power Shok loads in my .308 and they group under 1" at 100, and have cleanly taken several big hogs and one deer. Federal list Sierra, Nosler, and BArnes as bullets besides the one I already listed above. 
http://www.federalpremium.com/products/rifle.aspx

Hornady loads the following,
http://www.hornady.com/ammunition/rifle

Winchester,
http://www.winchester.com/Products/rifle-ammunition/Pages/default.aspx

Just out of curiosity, have you tried the other weight CL's in your rifles? Sometimes that makes a difference as well. If your shooting the 150 in both, move up to the 180's and see how they shoot. I'm not knocking your decisions, just I have some guns that shoot one weight, all the way across the spectrum of makes, better than anything else. For those I handload and use the cheapest bullets I can get to do the job. Most of the time they are CL's of one persuasion or another. Don't get me wrong, there is nothing in the world better IMO than Nosler Partitions or Barnes, maybe an accubond, but splitting hairs. I just hate to use them for shooting hogs, or deer in general if I can find something else that works. I simply shoot too many to make it feasible to drop 35-40 bucks for 20 rounds, when I can load or even buy less expensive bullets to shoot.

I wish you the best, but I wouldn't hesitate to look at the plain vanilla offerings by the others makes before jumping up in price for something you might not want to shoot simply due to price.


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## yep

I have shot deer that last 3 years with them, 7mm rem mag 150 gr. All engine room shots, baseball sized exit hole. Haven't lost one yet but maybe I've been fortunate or maybe the bigger caliber helps. Going to reload 120 gr ttsx, for hogs this year, will let you know how those go, but judging from the responses on this board, barnes tsx is the way to go for consistent on game performance. Going to shoot some does with 85 gr tsx in 243 this weekend, we'll let you know. Federal loads the barnes tsx in their premium ammunition, give them a try.


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## catchysumfishy

yep said:


> I have shot deer that last 3 years with them, 7mm rem mag 150 gr. All engine room shots, baseball sized exit hole. Haven't lost one yet but maybe I've been fortunate or maybe the bigger caliber helps. Going to reload 120 gr ttsx, for hogs this year, will let you know how those go, but judging from the responses on this board, barnes tsx is the way to go for consistent on game performance. Going to shoot some does with 85 gr tsx in 243 this weekend, we'll let you know. Federal loads the barnes tsx in their premium ammunition, give them a try.


X2, loaded them before winchester did and still purchase their factory rds for every rifle i have, i have had the same results as above and havn't had deer or hogs take more than a few steps ...my .02 they are excellent shooters and game getters ! Must be placement....


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## Haute Pursuit

The ballistic tips will work most of the time, the Barnes TSX's will work every time... thru bone on both sides if necessary. One of the guys on our lease killed 3 pigs with one 115 grain Barnes X last year... that's penetration brother!


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## Charles Helm

Hornady Custom

Federal Premium

Lots of other options I am sure. See what your rifle likes.


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## El Carnicero

bogan said:


> HEllo everyone,
> 
> I am in the market for some new ammo. I am not happy with the performance (accuracy) of Core-lokts in my deer rifles so I would like to upgarde. I have a Remington 700 in 30-06 and an X-bolt in .308. I am looking at the Winchester ballistic silver tips for use on whitetails and hogs. Can anyone offer advise on a good round with deep penetration and accuracy?


I forgot to mention in the 308 I have also been shooting the Winchester 180gr powerpoints and had 1" grouping at 100yd and they penetrate pretty well. I bagged a couple of large boar hogs about 3 weeks ago and recovered one of the bullets from one of them. The bullet hit right above the right eye and traveled up the center of the neck and past the shoulder but got stopped by the inside of the inner left shield of the hog. The shot was made with the beast looking at me about 140yds out. He dropped like a rock, and squeeled like crazy! I will post up the recovered bullet tommorow, its on my desk at work. I cleaned it and weighed it weighed in at a tad over 124gr.


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## El Carnicero

Haute Pursuit said:


> The ballistic tips will work most of the time, the Barnes TSX's will work every time... thru bone on both sides if necessary. One of the guys on our lease killed 3 pigs with one 115 grain Barnes X last year... that's penetration brother!


 Wow! What was he pushing it with?


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## CHARLIE

Yup, just buy something with Barnes bullets and forget about it. They work.. 3 pigs with one shot from Barnes 50 gr TSX out of 22-250. 

Charlie


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## CHARLIE

Barnes bullet

here is a picture (not too good of one) of a Barnes 53 gr. TSX out of a 223 that endered a whitetail (deer almost facing the hunter) just behind the right shoulder entering the body longways and traveling the entire body and stoping in the left hind quarter. Total bullet weight retained and did a hell of a job.

Charlie


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## Haute Pursuit

El Carnicero said:


> Wow! What was he pushing it with?


He shoots the same caliber as me, a .257WbyMag


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## El Carnicero

Same as Ole Roy's favorite!



Haute Pursuit said:


> He shoots the same caliber as me, a .257WbyMag


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## workorfish

*Agree with Screeminreel*

He gives good advise. I have 30 cals that group well with 180's and others that want something light. To me, grouping and shot placement are of primary importance. Secondly, choose the proper caliber for the job. I like my 6mm on hill country white tail but will leave it at home if I know pigs are a possibility. Not to say the 6 won't work but I've had some walk off with boiler room shots. "Don't go to a gunfight with something that begins with a number less than 4 and don't go big pig hunting with something less that a 3". I know there are the 223 enthusiests but I'm talking in general. If I know a really big porker is snooping around I'll even bring out the 338 Win Mag. Take care of business.

Lastly, I like the Nosler and others that transfer energy from the bullet to the beast, blow up in the boiler room. Even if they are not bleeding externally that are internally. Usually nothing goes very far when the power plant is in shreds. There are FMJ's out there if penetration and exit are the desired result. I found the old Silvertips held together too well and many ft-lbs just went wasted through the critter.


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## ronrob

The 115 grain ballistic silvertip is all I use in my 257 Wby. Has done the job on many whitetails, muledeer, hogs and aoudads. Bullets usually goes thru and stops on hide
on the far side. Not much of a blood trail, but have never really needed one.


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## jmack

My 270 does just fine for deer and hogs with a cheap old 150 grain federal premium sierra gameking. Nothing I have shot has gone more than 40 yards. I did pick up a box of federal premium 130 grain barnes triple shock and a box of 130 grains nosler ballistic tips to try out.


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## willyhunting

I do not know where the disdain of Ballistic tips comes from, for me and my Browning A Bolt II 7mm Rem Mag setup, I have a hard time finding a close second to the accuracy they provide. While I have shot Winchester Silvertip factory loads when in a bind, My Browning prefers a hotter round. With the 120gr Nosler BT, my "Varmint Load", The best grouping is provided by 66.75gr of 4350 which produces a .525 5 round group at 200yds. The 150gr Nosler BT likes 62.5gr of 4831 to produce a .375 5 round grouping at 200 yds.

I have not taken anything but a head shot on an animal in more than 8 years with this gun. It has never failed to drop one animal where it stands, and you don't lose any meat.


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## seattleman1969

RogerB said:


> There are better rounds - ballistic silver tips aren't necessarily the best and in many cases ranches and hunting operations will not allow you to use ballistic silvertips on hogs, Right or wrong, agree or disagree - the perception is that ballistic silvertips don't provide sufficient penetration, maintain sufficient mass, and don't kill as readily as other rounds. I personally load winchester silvertips. Not the ballistic silvertips but the older winchester silvertips, copper bullet coated, with a silver tip. that load is IMR 4054 53.5 grains for 130 grain bullet. I willl put a bullet through either animal and leave a hole the size of a golf ball on exit.


Personally speaking, both deer I shot this year I shot with ballistic silvertips, the Winchester 130 Gr. Supreme Load in .270 WSM, and like the standard Nosler ballistic tips I don't like 'em.

They stopped the deer just fine, neither deer took a single step. The problem was the overwhelming damage to surrounding tissue by the fragmentation of the bullet. I probably lost 10-15 Lbs meat on one animal and an entire shoulder on the other.

I prefer a full penetration with controlled expansion and will be setting up my loading bench so I can load up my favorite Barnes MRX loads for next year.


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## davidb

Almost all the off the shelf standard ammo is loaded with Deer in mind. Give the 165gr core-lokt a try in both rifles. Federal fusion is very good and not as expensive as some others. Powerlock and Vital shock federals are all good. Just see what shoots best in your rifle.

I like the TSX but they certainly aren't necessary for deer but for big hogs they increase the comfort factor.

Don't base a conclusion on a single range session or a single bad reaction on game. Go through a complete gun check and cleaning to improve the next range session. Once you find a good load buy as much of the same lot# as you can as it will vary with each lot.


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## llred

bogan said:


> greg77,
> 
> I do not reload. Is there a factory round that offers a nosler partition? I would be very interested.


Look at Federal Premium. They have many name brand bullets for those calibers such as Nosler, Barnes and Sierra.


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## CHARLIE

willyhunting


Wow .375 inch at 200 yards 5 shots , thats fantastic.

Charlie


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## Screeminreel

willyhunting said:


> I do not know where the disdain of Ballistic tips comes from, for me and my Browning A Bolt II 7mm Rem Mag setup, I have a hard time finding a close second to the accuracy they provide.
> 
> I have not taken anything but a head shot on an animal in more than 8 years with this gun. It has never failed to drop one animal where it stands, and you don't lose any meat.


I whole heartedly agree that the BT's are hard to beat for accuracy, and for the most part I use them to check out just how well a particular rifle will shoot. However the bad rap, or disdain, they get is from folks using too light of a bullet weight, at too high a velocity, or in taking not so great shots on game, and the end result is usually bad. Granted "if" everyone had the confidence, and ability to simply head shoot the critter in question, and was guaranteed that they would absolutely hit where they aimed under every circumstance, they might have a better rep. But due to the fact that "most" hunters, shoot for the shoulder or just behind the shoulder, the impact velocity of the round has to be taken into effect. If not, they blame the bullet for the devastation caused by a fragile jacket, blowing the shot, or loosing the game.

I think it is wonderful that the average "Joe" can walk into just about anywhere that sells bullets, and purchase top end, premium bullet loads. I just wished they would use them accordingly, or that when Nosler makes the BT's for whatever companies high velocity round, that the jackets might be a bit thicker to take into account the velocity jump. They even point out on their site, a given minimum and maximum "impact" velocity for the BT's and this will even vary from one weight to the next per given caliber. The jackets for their 308 caliber vary from lightest to heaviest, the 125 are fragile, the 150's a bit tougher, the 165's a bit more, and the 180's are the thickest. Even at this drive them fast enough and you will have issues when they hit something solid.

Most folks however, look at some ad in a shooting rag, or hear Joe Bob telling how "they simply are the best thing since sliced bread", and they have to try them out. This is all fine and well, but when they shoot the deer at 75yds, using a 150gr BT out of a 300 Win mag and it blows a shoulder apart, or the shot angle isn't the best and it rips a huge gaping hole down the side of something it it runs off into the brush, they blame the bullet, when in fact the bullet did exactly what it was designed to do, readily expand. Same can be said of the 100gr in 25 caliber. It works great when shot at 257 Roberts velocities at most any given range. Crank it up in a 25-06 to 3350fps, which is easily done in both factory and handloads, or up to around 34-3500fps form the .257 Weatherby, and you asking for issues n a solid impact at 100yds or under. However, take the latter two, 
stretch the range out to 200 or more, and they function just fine. But more folks don't shoot that far on average, and in closer than that,at the higher velocity, they are basically just a heavy weight varmint bullet. Same rifles but using a 115gr BT and they act much different, but they will still blow up on a close shot hitting a shoulder or heavy bone.


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## willyhunting

Screemin'

good post. Soemtimes I take for granted my habits and range experience. I realize that most hunters have neither time nor the desire to take in shooting sessions and for that reason do not have a great handle on the ballistic properties of what they are shooting, which would lead to the confidence you mentioned.

Nosler has a Bullet out now called "TIP". It is lead free polymer tipped, that should eleminate some of the issues some are having with standard BT

On another note, I have recently picked up a Browning 1885 45-70. I am starting to play around with it and it is a lot of fun. I don't thing I will find a BT in a 350 or 500gr for it though......


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## Screeminreel

Hey I hear ya loud and clear. I have been shooting since before I was ready. My pop had me sitting on pillows with one between the butt pad and my shoulder shooting his '06, WELL before my mind was made up I was ready for that. I hated it, cried, carried on, hid, you name it I tried it to get out of it. When your a scrawny 7yr old kid who was used to shooting a M1 Carbine, that '06 was really something. Course nowadays I realize why he did what he did, and I appreciate it, just wished he was around to tell that to. 

At one point in time I had visions of setting up a custom loading business. I was loading for some 20 or so calibers anyway so figured I might as well get something out of it. After checking into the insurance, I dropped that idea pretty quick. 


There are newer bullets out there that have higher BC's and such, but to the average joe, that don't mean squat. Most folks couldn't tell you when that added .005 BC of one bullet over another would actually start to work in their favor for one, and they generally don't shoot that for anyway. Years ago I learned to handload for accuracy over factory loads. Now it's pretty darn hard to beat even the plain vanilla stuff. The bullets used years ago simply bounce off deer and elk nowadays as well, the calibers that fed a nation 40 years ago are obsolete by most standards too. Show up with an open sighted 30-30, and you would probably get laughed off the lease. 

I am one of the folks who likes to shoot fast and flat, but I also blend the bullet to the speed. There are times for expansion and times for penetration, I try to have some sort of compromise in every load. I generally load medium weight for caliber bullets in everything above 6mm. From 6mm down I load for specific uses more often than not. Since I generally shoot vermin with the smaller stuff, I am not so much worried about making a 400yd shot on something weighing 2-400 pounds. If so I use something bigger. 

Again, I am like you I study this **** like some geek studies his programming to try and eek out the best I can get from what I have laying around. Sometimes it all comes together, sometimes not, but it has to work on paper long before it heads towards anything breathing.


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