# Tarpon Management Question



## Scott (May 24, 2004)

The satellite tagging of tarpon has unequivocally and repeatedly proven that Gulf Tarpon migrate from Florida, through Mississippi and Alabama to Louisiana and from Mexico, through Texas, to Louisiana. While doing so, they frequent federal waters and state waters. So the question is, should there be uniform management practices concerning the catching, releasing and killing of tarpon throughout the United States and if so, how should that be implemented. Some states offer no protection for tarpon, while others act to protect the same fish under regulations that are not uniform, leaving the same tarpon vulnerable in some jurisdiction and not others. Answer the poll.


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## lil mambo (Jul 22, 2009)

Sorry folks, Anyone who wants the feds to get involved in the management of anything from fisheries to 3rd grade girls hop scotch matches is misguided. Apparently none of you have ever heard of a fish we used to be able to fish called the red snapper. I can just se it now. It is the year 2022 and we are all waiting at pass cavallo to take advantage of the 3 day tarpon season.


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## Scott (May 24, 2004)

lil mambo said:


> Sorry folks, Anyone who wants the feds to get involved in the management of anything from fisheries to 3rd grade girls hop scotch matches is misguided. Apparently none of you have ever heard of a fish we used to be able to fish called the red snapper. I can just se it now. It is the year 2022 and we are all waiting at pass cavallo to take advantage of the 3 day tarpon season.


I am a strong states' rights person, however, Mike, I don't think you can compare snapper to tarpon. The same laws that allow for regulations of snapper allow for the regulation other fisheries like tunas, marlin, kingfish etc and don't result in three day season. The highly commercial aspect of snapper has caused that problem. I just never see that happening with tarpon - a non edible, non-take sportfish. I think the Feds have had success with migratory species like ducks and geese that are non-commercial. The interests are different and the results are different.

I believe that we can't go to countries like Mexico and seek changes in their taking of tarpon until we get our own house in order. I don't begrudge Luoisiana taking of tarpon. I think the number is so small it doesn't effect the species, but that is not the point to me. It is intentional killing for records or money in tournaments and then the wasting of a non-edible fish. I just personally don't like that. I've said for years that if I caught a Texas state record, I'd let it go.

But that's just me and in the grand scheme of things, I think we've got bigger problems to fix in this country right now than passing a bill on tarpon.


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## lil mambo (Jul 22, 2009)

On a side note scott. Just so you can plan. In the year 2022 you will only have one day to have the tarpon tomorrow tournament as the other days we will all be fishing the Hillary Clinton invitational.

Scott, we don't need the feds involved. Your research is greatly appreciated and I have backed you and participated. What you seem to forget is that even though we know where they go we still have no Idea of the mortality rates for catch and release fishing which will certainly be brought up. Do we have stock assessments, only guesses from what I have read. If someone wants to kill a fish for a record I don't have a problem with that. If they want to kill a fish to win a tournament I don't have a problem with that either. Now if they just want to kill it to take a picture or brag about it then I have some issues. A lot of folks will think my thinking is skewed, so be it. But please do try and keep the FEDs out of our recreation, They don't have the sense to manage it and one you give jobs to people in regulation they will only want to make more jobs and create more regulations to support those jobs. If you really want to help the fish populations work on it by trying to create the same environments we had back in the 50's 60's . That's about as far back as I can go but the playing field looked a lot different back then and so did the stocks.


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## Scott (May 24, 2004)

lil mambo said:


> On a side note scott. Just so you can plan. In the year 2022 you will only have one day to have the tarpon tomorrow tournament as the other days we will all be fishing the Hillary Clinton invitational.
> 
> Scott, we don't need the feds involved. Your research is greatly appreciated and I have backed you and participated. What you seem to forget is that even though we know where they go we still have no Idea of the mortality rates for catch and release fishing which will certainly be brought up. Do we have stock assessments, only guesses from what I have read. If someone wants to kill a fish for a record I don't have a problem with that. If they want to kill a fish to win a tournament I don't have a problem with that either. Now if they just want to kill it to take a picture or brag about it then I have some issues. A lot of folks will think my thinking is skewed, so be it. But please do try and keep the FEDs out of our recreation, They don't have the sense to manage it and one you give jobs to people in regulation they will only want to make more jobs and create more regulations to support those jobs. If you really want to help the fish populations work on it by trying to create the same environments we had back in the 50's 60's . That's about as far back as I can go but the playing field looked a lot different back then and so did the stocks.


I'm with you to a large degree.... so, since your from the ****-*** side of the world, how do we convince them to change their rules and allow some protection, leaving tournament opportunities and record opportunities? Getting them to come to the table on that on their own will stop or seriously impede any efforts to impose something from the national level down.


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## Fishing911 (Aug 27, 2014)

I'm not nearly concerned about Louisiana as I am Mexico.


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## Scott (May 24, 2004)

Fishing911 said:


> I'm not nearly concerned about Louisiana as I am Mexico.


On that, I think you and I can completely agree, but that is part of the problem too.

Back in 2002, Tarpon Tomorrow had the first symposium in Port Aransas on tarpon. You can get a lot of the papers presented here (http://www.lib.utexas.edu/sites/default/files/msl/TARPON contr35.pdf) including some genetic studies that were done back then.

At the symposium, there were two people that talked about tarpon in Mexico. I'll qualify this by saying I didn't take notes and this is off my memory and impressions of what was said. I think one was a recreational angler and one guy was somehow associated with either a state or national governmental agency. The recreational guy said something to the effect that commercial bycatch from long lining and gill netting kills thousands of tarpon each year, where the roe ends up in fish markets and is illegally sold and is highly sought after. Then, the "government" guy talked and said no way. Bycatch of tarpon is minimal and there is no impact on the fishery. What I remember taking away from that is the thought, "It's Mexico. What did I expect to hear?"

I also vaguely remember somebody bringing up trying to get Mexico to do a better job enforcing their laws (which they obviously were not) and changing them to make taking and selling of tarpon less likely. The general response was something to the effect of not asking them to do something in Mexico we weren't willing to do in the U.S.

I think, therein lies the problem and the issue here....


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## lil mambo (Jul 22, 2009)

Scott said:


> I'm with you to a large degree*.... so, since your from the ****-*** side of the world, how do we convince them to change their rules and allow some protection, leaving tournament opportunities and record opportunities? *Getting them to come to the table on that on their own will stop or seriously impede any efforts to impose something from the national level down.


 Really don't have to tell them much. Just about all the kill tournaments only award 1-5 places and some as low as 3 for kill. They all have catch and release divisions and most of them are coming around quite nicely on their own. But I will tell you this, If you come in and try and tell them what they have to do they will tell you to take a hike. They are a small tight knit group that has been fishing for generations and have come a long way in their conservation efforts. These are prehistoric fish and have dealt with issues over the million or so years they have been around much worse than coonarses and Mexicans.


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## Scott (May 24, 2004)

lil mambo said:


> Really don't have to tell them much. Just about all the kill tournaments only award 1-5 places and some as low as 3 for kill. They all have catch and release divisions and most of them are coming around quite nicely on their own. But I will tell you this, If you come in and try and tell them what they have to do they will tell you to take a hike. They are a small tight knit group that has been fishing for generations and have come a long way in their conservation efforts.


Then they shouldn't fight somebody initiating legislation to put a limit on the fish and set size restrictions and take restrictions.



> These are prehistoric fish and have dealt with issues over the million or so years they have been around much worse than coonarses and Mexicans.


Mike, I totally disagree with this. Millions of years ago they didn't have to deal with long lines, gill nets and such. The Texas tarpon decline was largely related to over harvest in Mexican rivers in the winter. History has proven that man can easily destroy a species...


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## Snookered (Jun 16, 2009)

I'll weigh in a little.....from the tagging programs that have occurred over the years we've figured out that tarpon do indeed migrate as Scott says, and spawn offshore.....this, unfortunately, puts them under the NMFS as an HMS (highly migratory species) that should be under Federal regulations....

that being said, I'm not a fan of that scenario....however, from my perspective, I am just a catch and release tarpon fishery participant (besides logging catches on the tarpon observation network).....I have no interest in ever killing one, not for a record, and not for a tournament.....then again, here in corpus Christi, we don't have year round tarpon by the thousands, or even hundreds....we only have a few during certain times of the year as they move through.......in places where populations can stand a few takings, that's probably ok.....but without management, (read stock assessements and kill records) we don't know what is and what isn't sustainable.....

so there, that's my opinion......LOL....
snookered


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## Scott (May 24, 2004)

Snookered said:


> I'll weigh in a little.....from the tagging programs that have occurred over the years we've figured out that tarpon do indeed migrate as Scott says, and spawn offshore.....this, unfortunately, puts them under the NMFS as an HMS (highly migratory species) that should be under Federal regulations....
> 
> that being said, I'm not a fan of that scenario....however, from my perspective, I am just a catch and release tarpon fishery participant (besides logging catches on the tarpon observation network).....I have no interest in ever killing one, not for a record, and not for a tournament.....then again, here in corpus Christi, we don't have year round tarpon by the thousands, or even hundreds....we only have a few during certain times of the year as they move through.......in places where populations can stand a few takings, that's probably ok.....but without management, (read stock assessements and kill records) we don't know what is and what isn't sustainable.....
> 
> ...


All excellent points...


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