# Watering with Hard well water



## Postman (Oct 11, 2015)

About 10-12 years ago I had a waterwell put in solely for the purpose of the yard/garden. Over time it seems that I can't grow certain things well that I could used to grow buckets full of, Example okra and cucumbers, squash.


I would have to bend the tops of the okra over to cut the okra, they would be as tall as the eaves of the shop. Does anyone think that watering with the hard water over time as changed the ph of my soil so drastically that it affects growing certain things. I know getting a soil sample and sending it off to A&M for analysis would be the thing to do. Is it the water?


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## Muddskipper (Dec 29, 2004)

It could be a factor but I feel like I would lean more towards what currently in the soil and what itâ€™s lacking.....

Compost seems to be a real buffer for tied up elements and is the one thing you can add without knowing if you need it, that everything will benefit 

But everyone has different scenarios and itâ€™s a tough call


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

I seriously doubt its the water...but a soil test is always a good thing. "Hard" water generally has good minerals in it that makes it "hard" but also beneficial for the soils. 

Anecdotal evidence for 40 some odd years been watering my same garden spot with "hard" water and zero ill effects...on the soil or on us LOL. 

In my experience, if you are going to garden in the same spot every year(and I do), you absolutely must practice good soil management...i.e crop rotations, compost, and continuous cover crops. My garden right now is 90% covered in peas...purple hull, crowders, cow peas, etc. They are on the "second" generation of shredding and growing shredding and growing this summer. Should get three generations in easy before frost.

This cover adds tremendous green manure and because they are legumes also adds N2 to the soils. Weeds just aren't a problem. 


The other 10%...okra over 7 feet tall producing 5 gallons every other day and peppers and cucumbers....none of it has one ounce of artificial fertilizer added...only compost and cover cropping.


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

To follow up on the above...the attached picture shows my garden right now today.

Peas on the left row need to be shredded and allowed to re-seed. That same row produced potatoes this spring at better than 10 to one ratio....and the years before that produced sweet corn and so on. 

Moving right you can see second generation peas coming on strong where tomatoes were grown this spring and corn years before that and so on. 

Then okra and then more second generation peas growing where several 2 plus pound onions were harvested this spring....buried under those peas on the left are some of the prettiest peppers you have ever seen. They absolutely thrive with the companion planting in this hot summer sun.

All of it growing on "hard" water and zero artificial fertilizers.


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## Postman (Oct 11, 2015)

Going to try and get mushroom mulch at least for my spring garden. Thanks for the replies.


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## Dick Hanks (Aug 16, 2007)

Yep... Agree with Muddskipper and Lark. In places like Iowa where the rich, dark, topsoil is 2 foot thick, it takes a lot of years to wear out the soil, but it does happen. Most of the country is dealing with 8 inches or less of topsoil and it wears out quickly if natural, organic material isn't replaced.

As Muddskipper said: You can add a bunch of compost and everything you grow seems to benefit from it, and there seems to be no potential downside to using a bunch of it. 

For larger gardens, what Lark is doing is by far the best way to build the soil back up again. For smaller gardens, where you may not want to dedicate time and space to cover crops, bringing in compost is the answer.

Rotation, as Lark mentioned, is also very important. Each plant put different nutrient demands on the soil, and a few actually "add back" to the soil.

I rely mostly on homemade compost and homemade fish emulsion.


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## hk (Oct 31, 2011)

I have limited garden space so I cannot do the cover crop thing, but I keep a compost bin going,all fish remains go into the garden and once a year bring in a truck load of horse manure from some stables by my house.

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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

hk said:


> I have limited garden space so I cannot do the cover crop thing...


HK, why does limited space preclude cover crops? Would appreciate a discussion of that. Thanks.


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## DA REEL DADDY (Jun 7, 2005)

You've got it made. Nice job


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## hk (Oct 31, 2011)

Meadowlark said:


> HK, why does limited space preclude cover crops? Would appreciate a discussion of that. Thanks.


Would do if I had a large area to garden,but with the limited space I am always trying to keep something in the ground to harvest.I do always chop up and put back into the soil all plant matter after finishing harvest.In the summer all tomato,green bean and squash plants are put back into the soil when they stop producing .Late in summer I usually had some horse manure and compost.This is really the only time my soil gets to rest as all I have in the garden at that point is longhorn okra and some pepper plants.Before I plant my spring garden all mustard greens,carrots,collards,snow peas and broccoli plants are turned over into the garden with a large amount of leaves from neighbors trees.I also have a large population of earthworms I have kept in the garden for 40 years and they help soil quality considerably.One shovel of soil in my garden usually will show 4 or5 worms.With all this being said I am always open to suggestions and making my garden better.

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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

Thanks for that, hk. Sounds like you are doing terrific work! There is no better indicator than 40 years! Not many can make that claim.


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## hk (Oct 31, 2011)

Meadowlark said:


> Thanks for that, hk. Sounds like you are doing terrific work! There is no better indicator than 40 years! Not many can make that claim.


Thanks .Always appreciate any input.Iam 53 and have been gardening same spot since I was 6 years old with my parents. My Mom and Dad are 88 and 92 respectively.I take them and many other elderly friends produce throughout the year.They eat all the fresh vegetables and citrus I can provide.Very personally rewarding to be able to do this.I freeze and can sometimes but really enjoy giving it to friends and family.Do you think I could grow a cover crop such as crowder or purple hull peas as a cover crop without them crowding everything else out and if possible when is the best time to plant peas ? I always ( maybe mistakenly)assumed they would be overcrowding other vegetables in my garden even though I realize their benefit to the improvement of the soil.Do you think I could pull it off with these small garden spots.

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## Mattsfishin (Aug 23, 2009)

In my small backyard garden I also try to grow something year round but I do rotate. I wish sometimes I had enough land to have a bigger garden and I could grow cover crops. What I have found that works really good for me is Microlife fertilizer. All my beds are loaded with worms. It is not cheap but I only have to buy a large bag each year and also add compost and leaves.
HK , I also share my produce with the elderly around here. It is sometimes too much for me to eat and the elderly enjoy it. Seems like the younger generation around where I live don't like fresh produce. 
I also notice if I put my water from the tap in barrels to sit a few days my plants seem to do better when I need to water them. They must not like the chlorine in the water.


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

Yes, hk on both questions. 

By the way, extreme kudos to you on sharing with others. That is actually the main reason I have a large garden...to share the fresh produce with others who mostly can not grow it themselves. I absolutely love doing that!

My thoughts are based on the belief that covers like legume peas can provide "things" to your soil that you won't get with any other means. Hence, even in a small garden, I would put some % in cover peas each summer and also some % in other legumes in the winter months. 

Let's say it was only 20%. That means every 5 years your entire garden soil gets the benefit...more frequently if you also do it with legumes in winter months. 

I do not subscribe to "resting" the soil. IMO, it needs to be growing something 24/7 every day of the year...even if some of that growth is dedicated to soil renewal. 

The thing about cow peas (purple hull, crowders, black eyes, etc.) is they will absolutely thrive when almost nothing else will...except okra and peppers. I have an excellent stand of first and second generation peas going and fully expect to start third generations next month. I grow them right up to frost...and then start the winter legume covers never leaving the soil to rest or catch weed seeds. 

I guess some might consider that extreme...but I promise you that the beneficiaries of all that produce never do, LOL.


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## hk (Oct 31, 2011)

Thanks for the advice Meadowlark. I will plant some soon. Mattsfishin you are smart to do this,those chemicals in our city water cannot be good for our gardens.I catch rainwater off my house in four 55 gallon barrels and my labs swimming pool.Only use city water when I am out of rainwater.

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## jm423 (Sep 18, 2011)

What Meadowlark said! He knows of which he speaks. If you have nematode issues, add some Elbon (cereal) rye seed in that winter mix. As to hard water, the only thing I have ever heard of problems with (other than irrigation fittings, etc.) are blueberries--they apparently won't tolerate bicarbonates.


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

jm423 said:


> What Meadowlark said! He knows of which he speaks. If you have nematode issues, add some Elbon (cereal) rye seed in that winter mix. As to hard water, the only thing I have ever heard of problems with (other than irrigation fittings, etc.) are blueberries--they apparently won't tolerate bicarbonates.


Very interesting comment on blueberries. I hadn't heard that before but a little checking confirmed it can be a problem. Thanks for that knowledge jm423.

I found an interesting presentation on bicarbonates...which raised my knowledge level upwards from almost zero.

http://citrusagents.ifas.ufl.edu/ev...al Problem with High Bicarbonates- Morgan.pdf

Bicarbonates can adversely impact a plant's ability to uptake nutrients.

The way most old timers I know got around any adverse effects of bicarbonates...they didn't actually know what they were called...was to aerate their well water before actually using it. Years ago a lot of wells in this area were based on injecting air pressure into the well and forcing water out into a holding tank. They then pumped from the holding tank for their supply of house water. The resulting aeration neutralized excess iron and carbonate ions resulting in excellent water.

I actually used such a system on my current property several years before finally putting in a submersible pump system. I have to say it worked extremely well to neutralize any potential adverse effects.

Thanks again jm423 for your comments.

p.s. Postman you may want to consider aerating your well water before applying to garden...probably already do that.


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## Ready.Fire.Aim (Sep 22, 2009)

Texas Plant and Soil Lab is a reputable company that does water testing.

https://www.tpslab.com/water-soil-testing/water-testing


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

*The best fall and winter garden fertilizer*

Here's an update showing my fertilizer/soil conditioners at work. I'll have to begin turning under some of it soon for the early fall garden but the rest probably won't be shredded again until late Sept. and then can reseed once more and grow some before first frost.

Notice the pepper plants(on the left) have started blooming almost immediately after shredding the first generation of peas. I still have a few okra plants standing producing next years' seed for this part of Polk County. Also, notice the mature pea seed pods on the right from an earlier generation of peas.

See any weeds? There may be a few...but there won't be any soon as the peas will completely choke out any/all weeds.

Honestly, I'd put this soil conditioner up against anything money can buy....actually money can't buy anything this good!


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