# Killam Ranch - Haleys Monster



## KevinA (May 22, 2004)

Hey guys want to share a story of Haleys deer (Haley is 16 yrs old)

Haley and her dad have been hunting a nice cull since thanksgiving at one particular stand and he never showed so after several days of frustration dad decided to try another stand and the magic moment happened this evening and Haley is now a deer hunting diva that we can all be jealous of, Haley shot the biggest deer that i know of thats ever been killed on our pastue....

I helped her dad measure it tonight and the final score was 14 points and 186" of pure south TX stud buck... three tines were already busted up...
(i am pumped) Haley and her dad are on cloud 9 + 9...

There is one sticky issue and that is the ranch manager of the KILLAM Ranch does not want any trophies killed umtil Dec 20th.... this is 7 to 10 days after the rut normally kicks in in our area and all patterns are over...

after a short conversation with the ranch manager this evening it sounds like hes not to happy about this young lady taking the deer of a life time..

the deer will be checked in tomorrow and I am hoping the Killam Ranch and the Ranch Manager will make this life changing event a positive rather than a negative..... only time will tell..
Haley, I am very proud of you... I am also very Jealous...

Guys & Gals enjoy the attached pic.... (only one I have) I will post better ones when I get them..


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## BigPig069 (May 20, 2006)

Congrats Haley, I hope Mr David Kitner makes the right Decision, I know her Dad pretty well and, I know him well enough to know he would not blatently break any rules. That is just 1 He!! of a Management Deer!!!! Congrats Again!!!!


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## willeye (Mar 2, 2007)

congrats on a very nice buck!!!!!!!!!


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## KevinA (May 22, 2004)

definately not a management deer... that is a once in a life time trophy for that young lady..


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## huntr4life (Apr 30, 2007)

very nice, congrats


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## coup de grace (Aug 7, 2010)

*awesome buck, hope little lady comes out ok on the deal.*


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## Jeff_C (Aug 30, 2007)

Awesome deer! Congrats to her! The ranch manager should know that the deer has already spread his genes for years. It will be sad if he makes a big deal over it. Then again rules are rules. And dead is dead!!


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## Richard P (Jun 20, 2010)

Yep, he had to know he was breaking the rules. That said, it was his decision and now he can live with the consequences. I am very happy for the young lady and hope this issue doesnt turn her sour on the experience of deer hunting. Congrats on a great buck.


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## bbridges (May 21, 2004)

What a monster. Congrats to her!


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## broadonrod (Feb 26, 2010)

Nice deer!!!! Congrats! Brett


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## RATLTRAP (Sep 16, 2009)

Great deer! And good luck with the outcome.


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## buckbuddy (Sep 1, 2008)

*That's a "Big O' Deer".......Congrats!....Hope things work out!,,Mark*


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## DadSaid (Apr 4, 2006)

hope it all works out for her...thanks for sharing..


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## idletime (May 11, 2005)

Nice animal! Hopefully the manager looks the other way on this one. Or at least handles it away from Haley. 

More pics please


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## mexdeer19 (Jun 4, 2009)

I hunt on this ranch as well and know this will be a big deal. What pasture do you hunt?


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## Jasmillertime (Mar 23, 2010)

hope it all works out well. what exactly could happen to them for shooting that deer?


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## KevinA (May 22, 2004)

here are a couple more pics..

deer was aged at 6.5 years old and scored 183 3/8"

this deer has tremendous antlers but check out the huge head and neck...


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## rusty2009 (Mar 5, 2010)

I am sorry guys I am very management minded but if I lease a spot on a deer lease and a trophy buck walks out and he meet all the requirements of a trophy buck as in age and size I should have a right to shoot the buck. I paid my money and if the buck is a trophy on the DEC 20Th then he was a trophy on Nov 28Th. The ranch owner/ manager is spending my money before the 20th of dec i should be able to shoot a trophy before DEC 20Th. I don't get it you spend 15000-20000 on a lease with these kind of rules is stupid. After DEC 20Th most horns are broke up from fighting and your not supposed to shoot a buck with broke horns! Seems to me you are spending a lot of money to sight see and shot a management buck. Just my 2 cents.


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## rusty2009 (Mar 5, 2010)

By the way that is a great buck Congrats on the Trophy young lady you did good!


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## mexdeer19 (Jun 4, 2009)

If you don't like the rules, don't hunt there. It is that simple, and everyone has a choice. I personally like the rule because we get to study the deer and reduces mistakes. What did Kitner say about the deer?


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## mexdeer19 (Jun 4, 2009)

We have a guy who disagrees on our pasture and I asked him why he is still hunting here. He knew the rules before he got on and it was not some secret.


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## rusty2009 (Mar 5, 2010)

mexdeer19 said:


> If you don't like the rules, don't hunt there. It is that simple, and everyone has a choice. I personally like the rule because we get to study the deer and reduces mistakes. What did Kitner say about the deer?


 With all the game cams on the market and the one's you have in the field already you should know what is a trophy before deer season starts. If not you aren't much of a hunter! I just seems to me it is way to get peoples hard earned money with nothing in return.


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## Swampus (Sep 1, 2005)

Beautiful Buck Kev---Happy Lady there--good luck on all!--if was considered a cull by the ranch don't see a problem.

swamp


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## Grande Venado (Aug 11, 2005)

Great buck, congrats Haley.

That rule doesn't make much sense to me for many reasons. I don't hunt there so I know it doesn't matter but whatever.

Does this rule only apply to paid hunters?

I see Ms. Killam is already on the board at Muy Grande with a 185.

http://www.muygrandevillage.com/contest/2011-2012/People/Sue%20Killam.html


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## Capt. Marcus Canales (Aug 25, 2005)

Grande Venado said:


> Great buck, congrats Haley.
> 
> That rule doesn't make much sense to me for many reasons. I don't hunt there so I know it doesn't matter but whatever.
> 
> ...


wow! that's a great deer as well!

congrats to the young hunter is in order, heck of a deer! :cheers:

i don't hunt there, but i don't get the "wait till after dec 20" rule, personally.....those deer have already spread their seed for a number of years before someone takes them out, doesn't matter if it's this season or next season, those deer are older and have planted the seed in more doe throughout the seasons he/they were alive...but that's just me thinking without knowing all about what the ranch does and does not do.

good luck with the rest of the season fellas. :cheers:


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## Little-bit (Oct 19, 2005)

Congrats Haley and her dad. That is a buck of a lifetime for many folks. I hope the ranch manager understands.


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## M16 (May 28, 2008)

Congrats on the great buck. The rule doesn't make any sense to me either. But if you broke a rule on my ranch you would be escorted to the highway. Cause that rule #1 on my ranch. It's my way or the hi-way.


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

Great deer. Congrats to the young hunter.


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## mexdeer19 (Jun 4, 2009)

Im not saying it is a great rule but it is a rule that must be followed by the ranch leasees. Great buck by the way and hope one comes my way after Dec. 20th.


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## Bull Minnow (May 28, 2004)

Great deer! I hope it all works out for the better.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

What is the punishment for breaking that rule ?? Bad part I assume everyone knew the rules and one was broke so whats the punishment ??


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## mexdeer19 (Jun 4, 2009)

Don't know what the punishment will be. I guess it depends if they have had any problems in the past.


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## mudcatz71 (Jun 8, 2006)

Congrats,Great deer for the young lady. Rules are rules, if they do decide to come down on yall have then retape the deer it may help yall.


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## Kicker (Feb 7, 2005)

Nice buck....Poor little girl...get's a nice buck and so much Drama over it....Pat her on the back, give a high five and be done with it......


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## KevinA (May 22, 2004)

as mentioned the deer was checked in this morning with no issues, Haley was congratulated by everyone and atleast 100 pictures of her and her deer were taken up on the rock...

the Dec 20th rule has been in effect for quite a few years and covers in excess of 100k acres..

Haleys Dad has been hunting here for 5yrs, knows the rules and is a big boy and knows the consquences of his actions.. he had to make a extremely difficult decision in a short period of time.....

It doesnt matter what I think or any of us think.. its totally up to the ranch manager, our pasture manager and Haleys Dad..


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## RogerB (Oct 11, 2005)

kudos to the Ranch, the ranch manager the pasture manager too. Well done Haley. Enjoy that buck of a lifetime.


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## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

Very nice buck and she should be very proud of the deer..

Rules are rules it will work out one way or another.

TH


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## Miles2Fish (Dec 2, 2008)

What is the penalty for breaking this rule. Black balled from ranch? Huge fine?


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## brettkeyallegro (Sep 7, 2009)

Congrats to the young lady. Assuming the father knew the rules then he can suffer the consequences. Not a great way to teach a young person how to hunt - by breaking the rules. If the rules are there and you agree to abide by them then you should. Lastly, my guess is that posting this picture with the details will leave the ranch manager little choice but to stick 100% to the rule book.


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## M16 (May 28, 2008)

brettkeyallegro said:


> Congrats to the young lady. Assuming the father knew the rules then he can suffer the consequences. Not a great way to teach a young person how to hunt - by breaking the rules. If the rules are there and you agree to abide by them then you should. Lastly, my guess is that posting this picture with the details will leave the ranch manager little choice but to stick 100% to the rule book.


Well said. It's certainly not fair to the other hunters on the lease. No different then shooting a deer three weeks before the season opens.


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## mr. buck (Jan 11, 2009)

the ranch mgr has no choice, especially if its a big operation with lots of hunters, too much moral hazard the other way. and frankly, he's not the one making the decision, dad did when he knowingly broke the rule and let her pull the trigger. feel terrible for her as its the deer of a lifetime. but the benefits of a life lesson far outweigh having that deer go on the wall with the reminder every day of the circumstances under which it was taken...


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## Outcast (May 20, 2004)

Great buck!!


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## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

Outcast said:


> Great buck!!


Exactly. Everything else will work itself out, one way or another, without the peanut galleries sage advice. Big congrats to that young lady on a fantastic old bruiser!


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

I dont think anyone ever said what the punishment was


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## coogerpop (Sep 3, 2009)

rusty2009 said:


> I am sorry guys I am very management minded but if I lease a spot on a deer lease and a trophy buck walks out and he meet all the requirements of a trophy buck as in age and size I should have a right to shoot the buck. I paid my money and if the buck is a trophy on the DEC 20Th then he was a trophy on Nov 28Th. The ranch owner/ manager is spending my money before the 20th of dec i should be able to shoot a trophy before DEC 20Th. I don't get it you spend 15000-20000 on a lease with these kind of rules is stupid. After DEC 20Th most horns are broke up from fighting and your not supposed to shoot a buck with broke horns! Seems to me you are spending a lot of money to sight see and shot a management buck. Just my 2 cents.


If you agree to the rules when you join the lease,then you should abide by them!!!A man/person is only as good as his word and you can only sell your integrity ONCE!!!!Dosen't make any difference what you paid to join but you don't make the rules...if you bend them for 1 person,then you don't have a rule...I agree that it is a beautiful buck of a lifetime,I'll never see one as good on my lease,but right is right and he should have been passed by...with much regret...my 2 cents..


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## Law Dog (Jul 27, 2010)

Congrats!


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## wet dreams (May 21, 2004)

CHARLIE said:


> I dont think anyone ever said what the punishment was


Could be sent to hunt in E Texas...OMG.. prob be to harsh tho....WW


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## RogerB (Oct 11, 2005)

KevinA said:


> as mentioned the deer was checked in this morning with no issues, Haley was congratulated by everyone and atleast 100 pictures of her and her deer were taken up on the rock...
> 
> the Dec 20th rule has been in effect for quite a few years and covers in excess of 100k acres..
> 
> ...





CHARLIE said:


> I dont think anyone ever said what the punishment was


so, like Charlie I didn't see anything about the consequences. Whatever happened I hope it doesn't ruin this young lady's memory and keep her from hunting again.


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## bbridges (May 21, 2004)

BATWING said:


> hopefully the penalty for the harvest of this pet deer will not sour her view of hunting.


Seriously.....your about as ignorant as they come. Pet deer....go take a look at this ranch and tell me how many pet deer you can find. I have seen you post these type comments time and time again. Get over yourself.

Again, congrats to the young lady.


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## BF (Jun 7, 2007)

congrats to the young lady; but rules are put in effect for reasons--if you dont like the rules well hunt else where---
still a hell of a deer and congrats to her


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## Jfreeman (Nov 3, 2004)

Congrats on a great buck!

The december 20th rule is a joke! I hunted on a ranch many years back and the biologist told the landowner we needed to wait untill after the rut to shoot our trophies.....um no. I told the biologist he was an idiot and that his rule would only work in a perfect world. Big bucks break horns, Why do you think all these huge bucks are shot in velvet and opening weekend? Because they are not broken up yet.

If youre shooting bucks at 6.5 or older they have had plenty of time to pass on their genetics. I got off the lease i was on partly due to that rule that I thought was just foolish.

It was a rule though. Break the deal=spin the wheel. They may be looking for a new ranch next year.


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## Jamie (Aug 2, 2011)

Great buck and congrats to the hunter

There's no biological evidence that supports such a rule. Reminds me of folks using livestock management techniques on wildlife. DNA of a deer is completely different then a cow/bull.

Having said that, it's their ranch and they can make the rules (shrug)...


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## Danny O (Apr 14, 2010)

Awesome buck!


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## Outcast (May 20, 2004)

The idea behind the 20th rule is to offer up one more year of breeding from the buck. It is frustrating due to the broken horns and shortened hunting season...but, it is their place and they have the right to run it however they please. I do believe it's best to take the trophy before he is broken up and of course.....when you get the opportunity since sometimes bucks of this quality may be tough to find again 



Jamie said:


> Great buck and congrats to the hunter
> 
> There's no biological evidence that supports such a rule. Reminds me of folks using livestock management techniques on wildlife. DNA of a deer is completely different then a cow/bull.
> 
> Having said that, it's their ranch and they can make the rules (shrug)...


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## mexdeer19 (Jun 4, 2009)

They do have the exception rule. If you have a 6.5 year old buck that is broken up after Dec. 20 and get him on video, then you can shoot him early if he is 7.5 or older the following year.


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## Justin_Time (Jan 29, 2008)

Nice deer!
 I think it's funny how many people disagree with the Dec 20th rule. How many of you guys are wildlife biologist? I imagine the rules are in place for a reason. 
It's fairly simple, abide by them or find somewhere else to hunt...


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## Outcast (May 20, 2004)

Agreed!  Plenty of other places. The deer on these pastures are pretty impressive so the system is apparently working.



Justin_Time said:


> Nice deer!
> I think it


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## Justin_Time (Jan 29, 2008)

Outcast said:


> Agreed!  Plenty of other places. The deer on these pastures are pretty impressive so the system is apparently working.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## wet dreams (May 21, 2004)

All this %#&$ just to get MAYBE 1 more breeding out of the deer, this is just taking things a little far>>IMO....BUT yada yada yada....there will always be someone waiting in line to get on the property. This makes me love my little piece of Texas even more....WW


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## devil1824 (Sep 4, 2010)

wet dreams said:


> all this %#&$ just to get maybe 1 more breeding out of the deer, this is just taking things a little far>>imo....but yada yada yada....there will always be someone waiting in line to get on the property. This makes me love my little piece of texas even more....ww


x1000


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## M16 (May 28, 2008)

> I think it's funny how many people disagree with the Dec 20th rule. How many of you guys are wildlife biologist? I imagine the rules are in place for a reason.
> It's fairly simple, abide by them or find somewhere else to hunt...
> /QUOTE]
> 
> Do you have to be a biologist to have an opinion? Why do biologist disagree with each other about management?


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## Justin_Time (Jan 29, 2008)

M16 said:


> Do you have to be a biologist to have an opinion? Why do biologist disagree with each other about management?


You sure don't - but like I said, there are rules in place for a reason. Follow them or move on... There are plenty of other places to hunt.


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## hammerdown (Jan 10, 2009)

Rules are rules, but if no one would hunt on this property because of the rules they have, they wouldn't have these rules. Not saying i agree with the rules! But I'm sure that ranch manager didn't go to this individual asking him to come aboard.


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## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

> The december 20th rule is a joke!


To you maybe but not to the person who set the rule in place.

Okay we know it's a nice deer she shot and most of us agree that rules are rules, some don't care for that rule or any rule, some don't care one way or the other.

Let us know how it turns out for the Dad.

TH


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