# Turbo plug or no turbo plug



## Guffinator (Aug 27, 2005)

That is the question....what are the preformance differences between a turbo plug motor and a regular?


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

Somebody take this one.......I'm in the new motor market and have always used standard plugs and have a stock-pile of them and am wondering how different they are and if it's worth changing.


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## justinspeed79 (Mar 9, 2006)

From what I have seen and heard, and from personal experience, the biggest difference is that the turbo plugs are more expensive. It seems the only argument for the turbo plugs is that they seal better, but when was the last time you had a non-turbo plug leak? 

I say get the motor you want regardless of whether it's a turbo head or not. Except in a situation like CV's, if you have $300 worth of non-turbo plugs sitting around then get a non-turbo engine.


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## vwracing56 (Oct 5, 2007)

I used to remember the difference when I ran my nitro dragster. I ran the turbo plugs in it and yes they cost little more.


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## cjtamu (Sep 22, 2004)

Longevity on turbo plugs is supposed to be better, but they cost almost twice as much so IMO it's a wash. I think what you'll find Guff is that a lot of the newer, high tech engines have gone to a turbo plug. The big advantage of the newer design engines over something like the 3 port Novas, etc. is gas mileage. I saw Ed Bridges talking about it once and he said that their understanding of fuel scavenging, etc. is so much better than it used to be and they've incorporated that knowledge into the new engines. You can go 10 minutes or more a tank with them and that's a big advantage. But. most of those engines will be turbo plugs.


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

I think I've actually settled on the Novarossi 21-4......it comes with a standard button, as well as a turbo button. So I can use all my standard plugs, but maybe pick up a turbo and give it a try and compare the two.

On a slightly different subject line, but good for Guff and I who will be buying new motors&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.

I just read this break-in method and will be trying it on my new motor. This comes from RB Mods and does make a lot of sense&#8230;&#8230;just not the conventional method I'm used to. There was more info, but it basically boiled down to that you should NOT use the uber-rich factory settings, and that you should only be SLIGHTLY rich during break-in. It goes on to read:

If you are still idling at least a tank through during break-in, you're using the old-school accepted method (still works well for some!) but it's not the method that the top engine guys (Ron Paris, Dennis Richey, Rody Roem, Michael Salven are just a few I've spoken personally with about this) recommend anymore.

From the very 1st time you start your engine, plop the car on the ground & begin running it in a parking lot in 2-3 minute intervals, tuned only *slightly rich* getting the temps up in the 200F range on a normal day. Every 2-3 minutes, shut the engine down & let it cool completely with the piston at BDC (bottom dead center), and then fire it back up; continue this cycle until you've run 15 min or so, and then bump up to 3-4 minute intervals. Vary the RPM and don't be afraid to get the temps in the 200's. What you want is heat cycling of the components without the incredible stress that comes with breaking an engine in when it's overly rich & cold. After cycling the engine in this manner for about 20-25 total minutes, it'll be ready for the track and race tuning. I realize this method goes against the old-school "idle on the box" routine, but you'll be amazed once you've completed this break-in routine, your engine will still have amazing pinch w/out sticking at the top AND your engine's compression will last far longer than it will with the "old school" method.


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## chicken (Mar 21, 2005)

Howdy Guff,

I used to take the el cheapo $60 OS .12CV, put a OS turbo head on it with the turbo plug and spank motors costing way, way more (just ask Smiley). What I found out was:
1.) The motor ran cooler (about 160 deg),
2.) Mileage was ridiculous (ran 15 minute mains, no pit and had plenty
of fuel left),
3.) Power was even more ridiculous,
4.) The turbo plug was good for 3 gallons (same one that I broke-in
with)
5.) That $90 motor did all this and I threw it away after 7 gallons 

I couldn't drive that motor in my NT, but it sure was fun


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## Guffinator (Aug 27, 2005)

Hey Chicken! How's it going?

Thanks for the input.


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## cjtamu (Sep 22, 2004)

CV, that's the Steve Bess method. I think most everyone around here uses that or a close variation. I thought that's how you were breaking yours in.

+1 Chicken. Only I ran the MIP or O'D head on the CV. Man, I wish they still made that engine.


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

nope.....was still using the old school, "Idle the first tank on the box, then blip the next 10-15 tanks going a little leaner and a little harder on the motor each time, and letting it cool down between tanks." It's been working, but this seems a lot faster.


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## cjtamu (Sep 22, 2004)

Depending on the outside temps and how well the head cools, you may need to wrap the head in aluminum foil to get temps to 200.


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

yeah, I'm going to use this method once I get the new motor........probably use a heat gun to keep temps up.

Just talked to Darren and he said he tried this last night with a motor that has a fresh bearing, rod, and pinch on it and it has worked very well so far.


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## cjtamu (Sep 22, 2004)

It's the only way to go. Use the heat gun like normal, I like to get to 150 or better before I start it just to take stress off the rod. You're still going to be running a little rich, I usually end up using the foil. Be sure to get the piston to BDC and let it cool completely. I use a small fan to cool the engine faster, but I don't have patience for shidnit LOL.


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## Guffinator (Aug 27, 2005)

What's the easiest method to find BDC? Pull the glow and look I assume.


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

Darren and I were discussing this last night: is cooling it down with the air compressor going to cool it too fast? If I just spray it with the airgun for like 60 seconds it is usually cool to the touch. Internals are probably 90% cooled at that point.

It seems like it would heat up just about as fast, so I don't see the difference in heat vs cool cycle time, but was wondering what other thought.


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## cjtamu (Sep 22, 2004)

You want it to be completely cool. For break in you're one, getting lubrication to the parts before you start turning 30K RPM, and two, "training" the metals to expand/contract properly. I use a temp gun and after the first run I keep temping it every few minutes until it doesn't drop anymore. Then I just use that temp as the completely cool temp.

Guff, I find BDC by feel. When you move the flywheel you can feel the drop when the crank goes to the bottom. But yeah, you can pull the plug and look until you get used to it.


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## justinspeed79 (Mar 9, 2006)

Yall might think I'm crazy, but I completely dis-agree with the heat cycle method. The worst thing you can do to any engine, especially a new engine, is a cold start, and running it cold.

The only break in I do to my engines is to idle 5-6 tanks through it non stop, not even stopping to refuel, with the engine tuned to a slightly high idle running between 200 and 220. After that just keep it really rich for the first few tanks, then gradually start leaning it out. I am usually to full tune by the 10th to 11th tank or so. 

For the most part, my engines run great and last a long time. It is not uncommon for me to get 10 gallons or more out of an engine. I'm not talking about super expensive Italian racing engines either, I mostly only use cheaper engines. I will add that generally speaking I do try to be careful about the way I run them. I don't run them lean and I don't do long WOT runs, etc.

That's my two cents, do what you wish with it.:cheers:


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

Justin, I have often guesstimated that the "science" of break in is probably only about 50% accurate. Your statement would lead me to lean towards that being true.

I think the point of any break in though is to go easy on it for the first 8-12 tanks.


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## kstoracing (Oct 30, 2008)

Another way to find BDC is to take the back plate off and mark it with a sharpie on the flywheel so it would be a qucik refernce at the track and all. I try to alway take mine back to BDC after every engine stop.


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## kstoracing (Oct 30, 2008)

I think for break in there is always more than one right answer. Just do the thing that is best for you and makes the most sense.


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## katjim00 (Jan 8, 2009)

I use my break in stand with a heat gun and get it up to 220-250 and run it full rich settings through its heat cycles. Been good so far.


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## rodgedaddy (Nov 11, 2008)

i've found that if you kill the engine by plugging the muffler, the engine will die with the piston at bottom center. i check and i've found it to always be this way. but thats just me i could be wrong


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## darrenwilliams (Apr 21, 2008)

I usually plug my pipe to kill the engine and it is usually on BDC. I have found during break in it tends to stop at TDC a bit more.


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## kstoracing (Oct 30, 2008)

Shoot, I have a GRP I am still tryin gto fully break in, let me borrow that break-in stand or can you help me out with it...lol.


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## kstoracing (Oct 30, 2008)

Yeah, when an engine is new it will always stop at TDC after you get some gallons through it. it may come back to BDC a little more often. I just double check anyway.


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

Courtney Vaughan said:


> I think I've actually settled on the Novarossi 21-4......it comes with a standard button, as well as a turbo button. So I can use all my standard plugs, but maybe pick up a turbo and give it a try and compare the two.
> 
> On a slightly different subject line, but good for Guff and I who will be buying new motors&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.
> 
> ...


I know this is an old thread, but I wanted to report back on it, as I've been thinking about it lately.

In my experience, this is the best break-in method for a serious racer, or someone who can afford to replace a motor or piston/sleeve every 3-4 gallons......it breaks in fast and is darn near race ready after 5-6 tanks.

HOWEVER, I tried two motors using this method, and they both only lasted around 4 gallons, give or take a gallon. Both were Novarossi's and are known to last a long time.

I have always gotten 6+ gallons out of my motors using the "Old-school" method that is mentioned......think I'll stick to that from now on!

Just FYI..........


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## Merdith (Sep 20, 2009)

*So true...*

The first tank I let it idle with a normal bottom end, avoiding reving it too much, and a fairly fat top, then I will drive it around after 1-2 tanks, then keepin it rich enough to idle, yet lean enough to keep it running without reving it too much. It takes 15 tanks to get the engine close to running faster and heat cycle every two tanks, not 1...Race ready after 18-20 tanks....


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