# Keeping Shad alive



## Catfish

I have had a hard time catching thread fin shad lately - I can catch all the huge Gizzard Shad I like ... but no thread fins ... I went Crappie fishing monday night , low and behold - I threw my cast net a couple of times and filled my net up with 3 or 4" threadfin shad ... I can keep them alive for an hour or two in my live well .. However after that I am toast .. It sure would be nice to go up friday night and catch bait and not have to worry about it on Sat.... Any suggestions ?


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## MUDHOLE KID

Wendell ,the Water Is So Hot Down Here ( 89degrees Or So) We Have To Add Ice To The Water To Help Them Out.they Boil If You Don't .they Can't Take That Heat And Besides That The Ice Helps Add Oxygen,just Add Enough To Keep The Water Cool,dont Put So Much In At One Time That You Send Them Into Shock.just Take You Plenty Of Ice. I Do This With Any Live Bait(fish)


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## Catfish

I have an oxygen infusor , that seems to work well thus far (have had it for two weeks) -- I also have one of those big tubs with the rope handles on the side ... Do you think that if I used this larger tub , the oxygen infusor .. some ice bottles and a little bit of the shad keeper ... That I may have a chance ?


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## Catfish

Also -- I think I remember something about someone putting there shad in a holding tank and then after they had calmed down -- transfering them to the live tank ... This eliminated the high build up of slime in the water -- Does this ring a bell with anyone ?


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## Hawkeye

I read an article about keeping shad alive a while ago. The author mentioned that shad are very delicate, and that most live-wells or bait wells have too much force to the circulating water, and not enough oxygen being introduced (low dissolved oxygen is probably the leading cause of death of fish kept in a livewell too) into the water. A third barrier to keeping any kind of fish alive in a livewell or bait tank is amonia. Fish soil their water fast, especially if the quantity of water in the bait tank is limited, as it would be in any boat-carried tank... space being the premium that it is on most boats... Think of terms of a home aquarium being able to keep only so many fish per gallon of aquarium size, and you begin to see the situation more clearly... perhaps? 

The solution, according to this bait guru, was to purchase a special live-well pump (I will dig up the style of pump for you later tonight) which is designed to introduce a large amount of air into the low flow of the pump. I watched a video of the pump in action and it puts more and smaller bubbles into the water than anything I've ever seen... it makes the water look like you just dropped a handfull of alka-seltzer tablets into it... Too much flow beats up the shad, one reason you find them struggling in the corners of square bait tanks... his design of introducing smaller bubbles into the water makes perfect sense from a physics perspective because the amount of oxygen that a body of water can absorb is directly related to the surface area of that body of water in contact with the atmosphere... so by using hundreds more and smaller bubbles, it allows for a faster exchange between the water in the tank and the air bubble-rich water being circulated through it... 
I'm not an engineer, so it is a little hard for me to explain this clearly... but smaller bubbles are better.. more and smaller bubbles is better yet... he claimed to be able to keep ten largemouth bass alive in ten gallons of water... I'd like to see that!!! 

If I recall correctly, the thread in which you mentioned a "shad pump" contains a link provided by another contributor, that got me started in all of this. I found a guy on Ebay selling these pumps for about 40$ plus shipping, which I thought was a bit high...

Last word on this post... the amonia for fish defecating in the water can ONLY be reduced through water changes or an elaborate (activated charcoal containing) filtration system that is completely unnecessary if you change the water frequently...
For keeping large quantities of bait alive for prolonged periods, you could build a bait tank (in your basement if you have one) with an aerator and a filtration system used for large fish tanks.... 

I wasn't going to get one of those pumps until I get the new boat, and after I learn to catch a lot of bait a lot more often...

Tom


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## NightTrain

*Yep...*

Mudhole kid is on the money...Also, partial water changes,especially after you initially catch 'em...Shad shed scales from bein' netted or handled at all.Of course, you know aereation/circulation are #1,and don't put more than you need in your tank.Another big help is "Shadkeeper" or "Baitsaver"...granular(disolvable stuff you put in the tank...helps keep shad calm and protects their scales or whatever.I occasionally use a tank of oxygen w/ a bubbler,but,bein' a Respiratory Therapist ,I have unique access to that!


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## Catfish

I have one of those Tom , that is what I meant by an infusor --- Get me the model # you were interested in and I will check the price for you .... The infusor does the job ...


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## Catfish

NT -- Sounds like the holding tank ideqa may work --- I have some shad keeper as well ..


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## NightTrain

*Ya'll...*

They sell'em at BPS...2 different sizes...the o2 infusers....Daggone,ya'll some fast typers!!:slimer:


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## Catfish

-- OOOOOW --- YUCK ---- BPS ---- Ohyea -- for anyone who didn't notice the post above -- I have an infusor .. lol ... Works like a charm


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## NightTrain

*I'll Be Back...*

....gotta go"save lives"for a few minutes!!:tongue: :biggrin:


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## Catfish

Cant they wait ?? LOL


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## MUDHOLE KID

That's The Cheapest And Easiest, If Your Boat Has A Livewell Let It Run A Little At The Time And The Water Will Automatically Refresh Itself.i Have A 32 Gallon Livewell And If I Dont Add Ice And Filter Out The Water Ever Now And Then ,they'll Die . I Agree With Hawkeye Too ,but Run Your Livewell Enough To Keep The Wtaer Fresh. The Bps Is A Hit Too But I Rought It.


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## Catfish

Well in this sutuation , I will not be able to put fresh water in until the next day - Maybe in the afternoon ... This may be a trial and error gig ...


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## MUDHOLE KID

O ....ok Good Kuck .....yeap...thats Tough


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## Hawkeye

From what this "expert" had to say, it's our natural tendancy to try to move TOO MUCH water... the fish are dying, so they must need MORE circulation, right? WRONG... I believe that constant exchange of fresh water HAS to be a good thing... fresh water means that there is less poo in the water to contaminate it, and bringing in fresh water GENERALLY means bringing in more oxygen, but it ain't necessarily so.... some of these dams you fellas fish near are drawing water from the BOTTOM of the upper reservoir where the dissolved oxygen levels are too low to support fish.... Some of the older dams that are constructed in that manner have had oxygenating systems retro-fitted to prevent fish kills... 
I don't type half as fast as I think Bro... LOL


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## Catfish

Below Nickajack , they pump air into the water to promote the health ... It really screws up a good depth finder ....


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## Hawkeye

Catfish said:


> Below Nickajack , they pump air into the water to promote the health ... It really screws up a good depth finder ....


Some of the reading I've done on tailraces and dams indicated that there was a bad problem beneath many of the dams with low oxygen levels... many of the rivers beolw dams wouldn't support any fish life until you got a few hundred yards downstream where the oxygem levels would have increase enough, again for fish to survive. I'm thinking the Army Corps of Engineers may have had their hands in the design and "fix" in lots of these instances....


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## Hawkeye

Wendell.... here's a link to an Ebay auction with the kind of pump I was talking about. It looks to be exactly what you said you're using:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=384&item=3692360617&rd=1


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## Hawkeye

I'm thinking these might be the answer for keeping big fish alive in a small livewell, like most boats have... for a longer period of time. I have heard about a couple of tournaments where you can't weigh in dead fish, thank God, and there just isn't enough room in a bassboat livewell to keep a 50# fish alive for long... if it will even fit in there... I've seen a couple of cooler-livewell designs made from 120 qt. coolers, but I don't think you can get a 50# fish in one of those either... that's another thing I've been trying to work out in my head.. what the heck do you put a 60# + catfish in if you're fishing a tournament and they have a "no stringer" rule and a no "dead fish" rule, not that I plan to run out and fish a tournament any time soon... I thought about building a livewell that would hold a 60" fish (barely) long enough to weigh in... and keep the fish alive, just in case I catch a fish big enough to max out that 110# Scale I'm gonna buy from Wendell LOL.....
One of those oxygen infusers would be an absolute MUST for a livewell, I would think...


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## NightTrain

*Yep...*

...O2 infusor&bilge pump...same as shad tank,just that the shad tank HAS to be round....The catfish cooler has to be Big....They used to have a plan/instructions on buildin' one on the Mr. Whiskers site,but I haven't been there in some time.


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## Hawkeye

I'm calling an early night... too many late-nighters this week... I'll call you (NightTrain) if I'm goign Friday to get the boat.. night all...

Hawk


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## NightTrain

*Alrighty then...*

Hey Catfish...You said ''ARHGGG" @bps....What's up with all this crappie and striper feeshin' ya been doin' as of late?:wink: :tongue:  :biggrin:


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## Catfish

NightTrain said:


> Hey Catfish...You said ''ARHGGG" @bps....What's up with all this crappie and striper feeshin' ya been doin' as of late?:wink: :tongue:  :biggrin:


Arghhh @ BPS -- Thats a joke , they are my competitor -- Would like to get about 5% of their business =)

Crappie Feeshin --- It is close and convenient - Although Monday night was the first night I have went since spring - I like'em to eat dem' dar Crappies ...

Striper Feeshin --- They are running where I catfish at , you fish for both of them the same way pretty much -- I complained to someone about not catchin any big cats lately - Just stripers and small cats and he replied - He would just be happy if he could catch something instead of nuttin --- Guess the Good Lord blesses us in ways we do not appreciate fully sometimes =)


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## NightTrain

*Dude...*

...I was just funnin' ya.Had not thought about them bein' your competition:headknock .
I'm on the Blues right now, but,love to git the string stretched by anything big,mean,and has different ideas about it's immediate future!!I'm thinkin' seriously 'bout headin' down to the Chesapeake Bay in the next few weeks to fill the freezer with those 2-3 lb. croakers and big 'ol yellerbellied spot.They's mighty tasty tablefare!


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## Catfish

Never ate none of dat dar vittles -- I magin de shoor are good .... I would like to try some fluke ..


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## NightTrain

Some bud's of mine just got back from Hatteras Island,and they slayed the flounder....I asked 'em was it worth the slip rental,gas,and other expenses.One of 'em replied that they went and bought some crabmeat and butterflied the flounder,then stuffed and baked them bad boys....He also said that this meal would cost 20-25 dollars apiece and it was 7 of them eating ,so it was worth it!


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## Catfish

My mouth is waterin''''


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## mudd_catt

I would kill for some fresh flounder right now. Matter of fact I wish I could go to the coast to catch some.


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## NightTrain

*Seems to me....*

...the Miss.delta would be plumb eat up wit dem doormats.Correct me if I'm wrong.:smile:


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## bassmaster2004

Hey try to put a little (about 4 cap fulls) of perioxide that stuff u use to clean yuor wounds with. I have used it in big bass touranments it work and the best thing is to recurulate the water about every 30 min and put ice in it if it is over 85 degrees.


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## NightTrain

dat's a new one....What are it's benefits.....Sorry we got hungry and digressed for a moment!!!


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## Catfish

Well I am ready -- I have decided what I would try for my first attempt --

#1 - I have a 32 Gallon Brute trash can -- I am going to fill it about half way or 2/3rd way full of what - Install the infusor and ice -- I will run the infusor for about ten minutes and the work on catching a reasonable amount of shad ,,,

#2 - After the shad have settled into the brute - I will start filling my large rope handled bucket (I am guessing it is 25 Gallons) with water and some ice to cool it down .. Also I will add some shad keeper -- Last I will take the infusor and move it over to that tank ... 

#3 - with a large dip net - I will transfer the bait over , load up and go home ...

#4 - When I get home - I will take large chunk or two of ice and put it in the contauiner to keep her cool overnight .... -- If we are doing well the next morning - I will just double check the infusor (for trash) and the ice amount (add more if needed) .. If I have lost a lot and still have some living - I will do a water transfer , the only place I can do this easily is a local pond --- I could use my well water , however does anyone know if this is a good or bad idea ? It is certanly very cool ....

#5 - Head to the Dam and go after dem' Hawgs !!!!


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## mudd_catt

Catfish, do you not catch your bait from the same place you fish? Just wondering, cause we always catch ours while we fish, if we are fishin behind the dam.


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## Catfish

Most of the time we do , however at the moment I can not get an ample supply of threadfin , so this bait will come from elsewhere ..


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## Hawkeye

Catfish, 
Did you happen to have a look at that pump link I posted? Is that the same (or similar) model to the ones you sell? I'm picking up the boat tomorrow, and putting my other boat up for sale. I'm selling the "old" boat (which happens to be three years newer than the Ranger) cheaply to move it fast. I'm going to be putting some of the proceeds into rod holders, aerator(s), those 202's I promised to buy months ago, and a few other odds and ends, if the money holds out... I want to get a rod holder "rack" similar to TrophyCats... and a few for the bow of the boat.... I'd like to buy as much of the stuff I need from a tackle salesman I know in TN.... Catfish Supply Company... ever heard of him?
The NightTrain and I are going to float test the boat tomorrow night... and maybe get some catfish slime in her on her maiden voyage....


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## Catfish

I hope you get that boat good and slimy -- It builds character --- They never said what model # it was , yes that is the same company - However like I said -- I am not sure which model it is .... I will fix you up .... It will be fun ...


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## mudd_catt

Be sure to let the first big un roll around and smear the carpet REAL GOOD, get the scales out of it early. 

hhhmmmmmm fried catfish, fried taters, and homemade! garlic bread.! goooodd


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## Hawkeye

I have about two hours to fish, so I don't know if I'll have much time to catch anything. WE might just ride a while to see what she's got.. I called the guy tonight to talk more about the boat.. apparently the one of the two steering cables was bad and he hasn't changed the water pump in almost ten years... the boat has been sitting almost that long... I called the mechanic that rebuilt the motor for him years ago, and we talked about the boat for a while. I asked him if he could replace the steering cable and put a water pump in it for me by tomorrow... it's DONE! He also told me they put the motor on a dynamometer two weeks ago. It ran rough and they rebuilt the carbs on her, flushed the fuel tanks and after that it "ran as good as when he first rebuilt it" a few years back... He said the wiring is a little corroded under the console so some of the pumps and stuff might not work right, so I don't know if I have bow and running lights... The trailer is ready to come home, so I'll only have until dark on Lake Gaston unless the lights work. NightTrain already had a fishing trip planned for tomorrow night, and I don't want to interfere with that, so I'll pack up and come home at dark... plus, it's not registered or titled to me yet, so I need to keep a low profile.... 
I don't really care what model pump I get, so long as it works..


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## Hawkeye

mudd_catt said:


> Be sure to let the first big un roll around and smear the carpet REAL GOOD, get the scales out of it early.


Amen 

Like I said, I don't know if I'll have time to catch a fish.....


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## mudd_catt

You and I were typin at the same time. Most of the time, if you have a bill of sale, especially that soon, Fish and Game won't bother you as long as life jackets, fire ext, and such are up to date. At least they won't around here.


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## Hawkeye

If I Can find a license agent open when I pick up the boat, I can buy a temporary registration to make it completely legal until I get the title transferred... I'll still take her out even if I have to take a small chance on getting ticketed... I'm excited


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