# Redfish with flykool25 rod



## Flykool25 (Oct 28, 2019)

Have you had more success with fly rod for reds or conventional reel? So far I have had no luck with flies for reds .


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## karstopo (Jun 29, 2009)

Are you sight fishing? Or are you fishing structure? 

If the fish are sighted, it could go either way. Depends on the mood of the fish, the forage, the conditions, lots of stuff. 

Fishing structure, flies can do well when I know the fish are on a particular narrow structure, like a reef margin or along a dropoff. 

Searching for fish without seeing much concentration of sign, itâ€™s going to be a lot easier to do with something like a paddle tail or topwater than flies.


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## Popperdave (Jul 9, 2016)

If you are sight casting I have better success with the fly. I Spook less fish. If you are blind casting then conventional tackle will out preform. They push more water and can attack fish from further away. For a redfish to see and eat a fly it needs to be less the 12" from it's face most of the time. 
If you are to blind casting a fly then concentrate on areas that hold fish most of the time. I like drains and eages of oyster reefs. Remember redfish feed near the bottom, so use a weighted fly and work it slow.
Good luck and good fishing.


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## Bird (May 10, 2005)

My catch rate from conventional to fly has gone down 90%. The quality and satisfaction of the catch has gone way up though. Ok, maybe not that severe of a drop, but when you consider how much more water you can cover with conventional blind casting versus fly casting it is easy to see why. When I'm fishing with my non fly rod buddies they always out fish me. They can cast farther with way less effort. On average I'm casting 60-ish feet. My buddy is easily casting 80-100' with a flick of his wrist. For a fly guy to send 80' of line, cast after cast after cast, will wear you out.


I've kept a rough count of casts between me and my neighbor and he makes about 10 times the number of casts I make with my fly rod. Easy to see why he catches so many more fish than I do. Now, when it comes to clear skinny water sight casting, fly is king.  Stick with it, it is worth it.


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## karstopo (Jun 29, 2009)

Sometimes, the fish can be really concentrated on a structure or possibly focused on something like a pier light. If thereâ€™s a situation where the fisherman can control the casting distance by positioning himself on foot, in a boat, or in kayak, the rate of making quality presentations with fly gear can well exceed those made with conventional tackle. 

Put me 25-45 feet or so from a gut, drop off or other structure where the fish are concentrated and I can put in two good presentations for every one the conventional tackle makes. How, just by not having to reel in the all the line between casts. One forward cast, present the fly in the zone, pick up the line for the backcast, repeat. Ideally, thereâ€™s minimal stripping in line and whatever gets stripped is no more than can be shot out in one fluid backcast to forward motion. 

Thereâ€™s several spots where this has played out both with redfish and speckled trout. If the fish are really concentrated and feeding, there will be lots of eats and almost every quality cast will net an eat. Itâ€™s about positioning. If I can fish from 35-40 feet from the structure, Iâ€™m going to make that choice over setting up out at twice the distance, all other things being equal. 

Yes, the try to cast almost of the fly line repeatedly deal just becomes a chore in short order in my experience and the conventional tackle user is going to make many more presentations in that scenario, likely leading to more fish to hand. Iâ€™ve been on a boat with conventional tackle folks while I had fly tackle in places where fishing from a boat is good and the distance is longer and it will tire me out trying to keep up. If I can get my friend the captain to move in a little closer, it works out better for me and tends to even out the playing field, fly and conventional.


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## impulse (Mar 17, 2010)

Bird said:


> I've kept a rough count of casts between me and my neighbor and he makes about 10 times the number of casts I make with my fly rod. Easy to see why he catches so many more fish than I do. Now, when it comes to clear skinny water sight casting, fly is king. Stick with it, it is worth it.


You got that right, it depends on whether you're fishing blind, or selectively fishing a little patch of water. As you and others indicate, sight fishing is where the fly rod shines.

If you look at the sheer numbers of casts and acres covered, sure. You can (arguably) make more casts and cover more water with a spinning rod or baitcaster. But if you look at the amount of time your fly spends in the strike zone, a fly rod is very competitive. You don't have to reel it in those 40-60-80' of unproductive water to make another cast. Just lift it up, one back-cast, and move it over a few feet. Boom. You even have the distance dialed in automatically.

Better yet, learn to mend your line with a roll cast and you don't even have to lift it from the water. Try that with a conventional rod...

BTW, thatâ€™s one place I think most fly casting coaches let their students down. Everyone wants to learn to make that 100â€™ cast like a hero, but roll casting and mending are valuable skills. Even more valuable where a back cast isnâ€™t possible.


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## Flykool25 (Oct 28, 2019)

Well I have been blind casting . Time to switch to sight casting . Conventional until I find fish then switch to fly rod. Might be my best option .


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## Flykool25 (Oct 28, 2019)

While kayak fishing at night near the lights in the canal , the fly seems to catch more fish although there are few days where conventional tackle works better . But I have problems during daytime with flies . Well I will keep trying .


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## Bird (May 10, 2005)

Flykool25 said:


> While kayak fishing at night near the lights in the canal , the fly seems to catch more fish although there are few days where conventional tackle works better . But I have problems during daytime with flies . Well I will keep trying .


There is a pretty dramatic difference in sight cast fishing for fish on the flats and blind casting is deeper water, let's say more than 3'. The main defining factor is that in our water, beyond 3' of water, you aren't going to see the fish. Fish tend to be a lot more skittish and reactive to noise on the flats as opposed to deeper water. When you are in a foot of water, you need to be quiet, move purposely around the boat and not at all if possible and the boat needs to move slowly. If the fish can detect a little baitfish in the dark 5' away, I promise they can feel your boat 60' away. It isn't always the case, we poled right up to a few reds last Monday and could have hit them with our rod tips. Fortunately, the reds in our bay system are pretty agreeable most of the time and if you get a fly pretty close, they'll eat.


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## bones72 (Oct 29, 2019)

I haven't fished the bays and such here yet but I imagine it is like stalking trout in a spring creek or in other gin clear waters. Just walking the banks well back from the water can see them trout scurrying for cover and lock their jaws for an hour or better. Fishing in these situation is more like hunting and good stalk and perfect presentation is the key to success. 


One thing I have looked for when chasing picky fish be they trout or pressured smallmouth in rivers and streams is moving water. The faster the water is moving the less likely it is they can hear or see your approach and the less time they have to scrutinize your offering. I would imagine fish around drains or passes would be a similar situation if the tide is moving and would most mostly likely place for you to take advantage of the flyrod as you can mend your line to keep the fly in the strike zone longer and it will look more natural than hardware on conventional tackle that has to be kept in motion by reeling.


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## karstopo (Jun 29, 2009)

The best place Iâ€™ve found to pick up redfish with fly tackle in not necessarily sight fished situations is along oyster reef margins. Oyster reefs are impossible to miss seeing unless they are very deep or the water is super choppy or murky. Find a reef, toss a pattern up against it or over it depending on the water levels, and let the fly hug the contours coming off the reef into the surrounding water. Drift the fly down the edge of the reef if the current allows for it. Use flies with different sink rates to get the appropriate rate for the situation. 

Call it blind fishing if you like, but itâ€™s really targeted casts to specific areas and specific presentations to fish potentially lurking around the margins for prey to wander too far from the shell. The casts have to be right or risk getting hung in the shell at every point. I do get snagged (especially as I avoid using weed guards) on occasion, but that generally means Iâ€™m in the zone the fish are hanging. Itâ€™s not all blind fishing because redfish, trout, sheepshead and even flounder will pop up on top of the shell at times for a sight cast opportunity. Some reefs are better than others. 

But really any edge can work out, not just oyster reefs. The ICW edges along the shorelines are great to try. Try a bulkhead with water moving by. All of it is good target practice for when the sight fishing conditions are better. Would you rather sharpen your fly line handling and casting skills on the water where actual fish are or do that on the lawn? I can have a fun time for hours bumping along in my Commander kayak going from reef to reef casting at the margins even when the wind has chopped up the water. Would I rather hunt sighted redfish, absolutely, but Iâ€™ll take whatever conditions are thrown at me and try to make a go at it. Usually, that means a fun time out unless the winds get too obnoxious.


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## karstopo (Jun 29, 2009)

Case in point, I was moving along one of those oyster reefs the other day when this trout popped up onto the edge to destroy some bait coming off the barely submerged shell. 26â€ and over 6# on the boga. Not exactly a redfish, but nothing wrong with speckled trout like this one. Light was poor with the cloud cover, but the water was clear enough and the reef knocked down the surface ripples enough to let me see the fish.

In Texas, if you wait for perfect sight fishing conditions to break out the fly gear you had better have a super flexible schedule or be able to go long periods without wetting the fly line.


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## Bird (May 10, 2005)

bones72 said:


> I haven't fished the bays and such here yet but I imagine it is like stalking trout in a spring creek or in other gin clear waters. Just walking the banks well back from the water can see them trout scurrying for cover and lock their jaws for an hour or better. Fishing in these situation is more like hunting and good stalk and perfect presentation is the key to success.
> 
> One thing I have looked for when chasing picky fish be they trout or pressured smallmouth in rivers and streams is moving water. The faster the water is moving the less likely it is they can hear or see your approach and the less time they have to scrutinize your offering. I would imagine fish around drains or passes would be a similar situation if the tide is moving and would most mostly likely place for you to take advantage of the flyrod as you can mend your line to keep the fly in the strike zone longer and it will look more natural than hardware on conventional tackle that has to be kept in motion by reeling.


You have the basic idea already. The only flats fish as skittish as stream born trout are sheephead. I swear they eat crabs and crystal meth. Big specks tend to act like big browns, when they feel you or see you, they just sort of swim away with their middle fin up at you.

I take a mixed approach of targeted blind casting at fishy looking spots, like Karstopo is talking about, and of course sight casting. A lot of the sight casting is casting at a wake. So even though I don't actually see the fish, I can see the V-wake they are making. Just remember, that the V-wake shows where the back of the fish is so cast in front of the wake. Also, no trout setting. Strip sets. Reds have fairly rubbery lips so easy to stick. Specks have hard jaws but soft tissue all around. The smaller ones are pretty easy to stick but the larger ones (25"+) can need a harder set or a couple good strip sets for insurance. Flounder have really hard bony mouths. They also tend to clamp down on the fly and just hold it. Good luck.


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## Scott1234 (Nov 16, 2019)

If only numbers are important, donâ€™t fly fish. In order of success for the average fisherman (although all on this forum are elite; just ask someone): bait then lures them flies.


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## karstopo (Jun 29, 2009)

Right, why do people fish? Reading some of the posts on 2cool on the other sub forums youâ€™d think that many are only in it for the groceries, mighty expensive groceries as it likely works out. 

I like fishing with bait, lures and flies. Every so often, I love tossing out a live bluegill on a circle hook out in the lake and see what turns up. Or cast netting up some mullet in the surf and then wonder whatâ€™s going to be on the line. 

Working a walk the dog topwater is a blast. Thereâ€™s way more to it than cast as far as you can and retrieve. Bumping a paddle tail over a reef, been there, done that and still love it. Or working a suspending twitch plug real slow anticipating the eat. How is that not fun? 

Fly fishing is just another kick and itâ€™s fun to see a fish eat the fly and itâ€™s fun dragging and bouncing something along some shell or a drop off and see what turns up. Nothing like wading the green surf and getting a trout on every 40 foot cast. I like shaping casts and drifting something in the current, stuff thatâ€™s hard or impossible to pull off with the other tackle. Iâ€™d say if everything lines up and the distance can be controlled and the structure is right with a concentration of fish, the fly tackle can out produce them all, not that that situation is all that common. It does happen, though.


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