# Its finally done...



## Part Timer (Jul 2, 2012)

My family was very blessed last October to be able to sell our home and purchase another with a little more wiggle room.

After much talk and going back and forth in my head on loction (with the wife's approval), i got started on my deer proof fence for my garden. I had a small raised bed and im chomping at the bits to have this larger space now.

I have worked the soil over about 5 times now and my plan is to till in some compost this week and let it rest for 2 weeks before i put in my potatoes.

Any additional tips from the more seasoned veterans?































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## Castaway2 (Aug 8, 2013)

Deer proof? 
said you started.. so i hope you make it higher than that it looks about 5 ft tall. deer can jump that and will. 

good luck and congrats on the new property


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## Part Timer (Jul 2, 2012)

Thank you. Ya i have doubts myself. Im going off the neighbors around me opinions. They said the deer arent hungry enough to jump that high, and thought that hieght should be plenty. Lol i will add i have dogs also so im hoping with those 2 defenses ill be good.

Its about 5'-6", i got a plan for higher extensions if they decide they want to get in there.

This was the newest addition to our family in december. He is a cross between an english and Italian mastiff. He should be as big as a small horse. So im hoping he is going to be doing most the garden protecting. 
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## Dick Hanks (Aug 16, 2007)

I can't figure out from the shadows what direction you garden is from the trees? Hard to tell how much sun the trees will steal.

Tree roots will become a major problem for you. Stealing moisture and nutrients. As soon as a tree finds more of both of these in a certain direction, they seem to double down on the amount of root growth in that direction. Actually, most all plants will do this. 

In the past, I have had to abandon one garden area because of trees, and at my current garden plots, tree within 30ft have been cut down. It was way too much effort to try to share dirt with them. 2 things never sleep.....Rust and tree roots.hwell:

You might be right about the deer. Some areas around here a 5ft will keep them out. In my area some bucks will jump my 8ft fence. It all depends on hunger and things like dogs.


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## Part Timer (Jul 2, 2012)

I was afraid of the trees. the trees are on the fence and the garden comes away from the fence. Its 20' deep and close to 30' wide. I was hoping since they were pine with a deeper root system i would be ok. If need be they will come down. Not a fan of pine trees anyways. 

I watched the area all day and taken notes. I have a decent amount of light. Not as much as i would like, but its a pretty heavily wooded lot so i had limited options. Im hoping for the best.


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## Dick Hanks (Aug 16, 2007)

It's nice that you have the option to eliminate the trees if they are or become a problem. Normally, the soil under and around pine trees is quite acidic. Maybe do a pH test or work a couple of bags of lime into your soil to bring up the pH.

By the way.....That picture of your kid and pup is wonderful.


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

In my experience, outside dogs are the very best protection of your garden from deer....and that mastiff looks like the perfect answer, if its outside a lot and leaving its sent around. 

If you haven't done so yet, check the ph of your new soil... it could be low with all those pines around, but a check will tell you that.


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## Part Timer (Jul 2, 2012)

Thank you for the kind words Mr. Hanks. 

Ill buy a soil test kit today and report back. Thanks for the advice guys. 

And yes he is going to be an outside pup. His land mines he is already leaving have me concerned about walking barefoot in the yard next year! haha


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## jm423 (Sep 18, 2011)

I share the concerns about pH, would add that I have little or no confidence in home garden test kits. Prefer TAMU Lab, and some bulk fertilizer dealers will send samples to other labs. Other side of the coin, I envy you the shade, especially if on the west side, for me it would help with the south Texas broil. Best of luck!


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## fy0834 (Jan 18, 2011)

SFA soil test form... $10-17

http://ag.sfasu.edu/images/files/document/Soils Lab/Soil_info_front_and_back.pdf


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## Part Timer (Jul 2, 2012)

So i bought a rapitest digital 3 way analysis tester. It test fertility, ph, and temp. Ide still like to send it off, but im trying to plant this spring so this wil have to do for now. 

My soil ph is at an average of 6.8 and my fertility is at a 3. Im still planning on tilling in some compost as i think that will help with the fertility. Should i also add some lime to lower that PH a little? Or is 6.8 acceptable?

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## Part Timer (Jul 2, 2012)

So i bought a rapitest digital 3 way analysis tester. It test fertility, ph, and temp. Ide still like to send it off, but im trying to plant this spring so this wil have to do for now. 

My soil ph is at an average of 6.8 and my fertility is at a 3. Im still planning on tilling in some compost as i think that will help with the fertility. Should i also add some lime to lower that PH a little? Or is 6.8 acceptable?

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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

6.8 is darn near perfect for most garden veggies. I wouldn't change it for this first season. 

Notice potato, for example, at an ideal range of 4.5 to 6...adding lime would raise ph ...not what you want if you are planning to plant the spuds. 

Vegetable/Ideal Soil pH
Artichoke/6.5 - 7.5
Arugula (Roquette)/6.0 - 6.8
Asparagus/6.0 - 8.0
Beans/6.0 - 7.5
Beet Root/6.0 - 7.5
Broccoli/6.0 - 7.0
Brussel Sprouts/6.0 - 7.5
Cabbage/6.0 - 7.5
Carrot/5.5 - 7.0
Cauliflower/5.5 - 7.5
Celery/6.0 - 7.0
Chicory/5.0 - 6.5
Chinese Cabbage/6.0 - 7.5
Corn/5.5 - 7.0
Cress/6.0 - 7.0
Cucumber/5.5 - 7.5
Eggplant/6.0 - 7.0
Garlic/5.5 - 7.5
Horseradish/6.0 - 7.0
Kale/6.0 - 7.5
Kohlrabi/6.0 - 7.5
Leek/6.0 - 8.0
Lentil/5.5 - 7.0
Lettuce/6.0 - 7.0
Mushroom/6.5 - 7.5
Mustard/6.0 - 7.5
Onion/6.0 - 7.0
Parsley, Hamburg Rooted/6.0 - 7.0
Parsnip/5.5 - 7.5
Pea/6.0 - 7.5
Peanut/5.0 - 6.5
Pepper/5.5 - 7.0
Potato/4.5 - 6.0
Potato- Sweet/5.5 - 6.0
Pumpkin/5.5 - 7.5
Radish/6.0 - 7.0
Rhubarb/5.5 - 7.0
Rice/5.5 - 6.5
Shallot/5.5 - 7.0
Soybean/5.5 - 6.5
Spinach/6.0 - 7.5
Tomato/5.5 - 7.5
Turnip/5.5 - 7.0
Water Cress/5.0 - 8.0
Watermelon/5.5 - 6.5


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## Part Timer (Jul 2, 2012)

Whoops! Had my PH math backwards. Thats good news though. Ill leave it alone. Im looking forward to growing season. Ill post some pictures later on and report back how its going. 

Thanks for all the advice everyone!

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## jm423 (Sep 18, 2011)

Very god starting point on your pH. And some fertilizers will tend to drift the pH down a bit. You're good for starters.


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## Dick Hanks (Aug 16, 2007)

I gotta admit that I'm very surprised that the soil under health, mature pines was as high as 6.8 Haven't seen that before in my past 50 years of gardening. Maybe it's a Texas thing. Looks like you are good to go.


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## Part Timer (Jul 2, 2012)

Well now you got me doubting my test kit! Haha i guess the true test will be this spring. 





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## Dick Hanks (Aug 16, 2007)

Seriously, you might be OK. The pine trees that I'm referring to are Norway (Red) Pines and White Pines up here in northern MN. You probably have different varieties of pine like Yellow (that I know nothing about), etc, and certainly have different climate conditions. My experiences may not apply at all to your situation.


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

I'm not at all surprised at your results. In fact, its what I would expect. 

My place is in the Piney Woods and all over it the soil runs in the 6.7 to 7 range. I use a "Rapitest 4-way analyzer" for quick readings...but when I need the full soil analysis always send it in to TAMU. 

You can definitely raise some nice veggies in that Piney Woods soil...but it does need N2 usually.


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## Part Timer (Jul 2, 2012)

Finally got dry enough to plant. We will see how well this soil is soon enough.









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## Rubberback (Sep 9, 2008)

I'd put a border around it. That way over the years of adding more compost or dirt it won't wash away and the garden will hold more moisture.
Totally agree with cutting down pines. 
Cinder blocks work great but expensive.


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## Part Timer (Jul 2, 2012)

thanks for the tip. Not a bad idea with the border. It sure seemed like my raised bed was more bang for the buck on planting area. I was kind of disappointed on my planting area once i got back with all my plants. It was very similar to going to the grocery store hungry. LOL This is a learning curve on the new garden. I might go back to raised beds next year. We will see how the spring goes. 

And the trees are coming down this weekend. 

I also need to get started on a new chicken coop and duck house. My little farm is growing.


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

Part Timer said:


> ... This is a learning curve on the new garden. .... My little farm is growing.


That's one of the things I enjoy most about gardening is that you can learn something new all the time no matter how many years you have been at it.


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## Rubberback (Sep 9, 2008)

Part Timer said:


> thanks for the tip. Not a bad idea with the border. It sure seemed like my raised bed was more bang for the buck on planting area. I was kind of disappointed on my planting area once i got back with all my plants. It was very similar to going to the grocery store hungry. LOL This is a learning curve on the new garden. I might go back to raised beds next year. We will see how the spring goes.
> 
> And the trees are coming down this weekend.
> 
> I also need to get started on a new chicken coop and duck house. My little farm is growing.


Don't use chicken wire. Use half inch hardware cloth. Trust me. I started out with 10 chickens and one coop. LOL! I now have three giant chicken coops and over 50 chickens.
That wasn't enough.
So, I started building quail pens. I now have 5 quail pens. Its a sickness I swear. But you do eat good and you know where your food comes from.
The boarder around your garden will eventually cause you to have raised beds. Over the years you will keep adding compost to the garden and it will eventually become raised.


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## Part Timer (Jul 2, 2012)

Looks like the fence did the trick while the dog was sleeping. i came downstairs to see this herd scoping it out this morning.









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## Dick Hanks (Aug 16, 2007)

I agree with Rubberback that at some point you may have too replace the chickenwire with more substantial fencing. I started out having 4 ft high chicken wire around my fruit and veggie plots. Then there is an addition 3ft above that, with several single strand wires going around for a total of 7ft. The deer have pushed their faces into the chicken wire so hard in some places, you can see the outline of their head, retained in the fence. Evidently, they thought if they pushed hard enough, it would give away like brush would. A couple of other spots look like they were hit at full speed by running deer that didn't see the fence at night.

Black bears are hard on the fence too. That's why I had to add an electric fence just outside of the regular fence as well. At least you don't have that problem! 

This spring, after the snow is gone, but before I plant, I'm going to replace 200 ft of the most damaged chicken wire with thicker gauge 4ft high fencing. Next year, I'll replace another 200 or 300 ft of fencing.

The reason that most people don't get the production out of flat gardens VS raised beds, is that they change planting techniques. In a raised bed, you use intensive gardening practices. You plant the full 3 or 4 ft wide with crop. When you plant in flat garden space, most of it is planted in single row plants or at the most a 2 ft wide strip planted 2 rows wide. If you are limber enough, you could easily make these 3ft wide plantings on flat ground and approach the production of raised beds. This old man has to stick with 2ft wide rows. Except for my tomatoes that are single row planted, everything else is plant with with at least 2 rows in each strip of ground. Smaller plants like radishes and onions, I plant 3 staggered rows. Just like in raised beds though, Ya gotta keep up with the compost, fertilizer, and water when you plant more intensely.

Any kind of border material around the garden will help to keep grasses and weeds from creeping in. I use several kinds of border material, and they all help to separate my plants from the jungle out there.


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## Part Timer (Jul 2, 2012)

The garden fence is 2x4 welded wire. On my coop i just have the standard chicken wire, which im planing on replacing when i expand it. Im trying out the "Ruth Stout" gardening method with hay that i found after watching "back to Eden gardening" on youtube. I got a lot of negative criticism about it from people about weeds and more trouble than good, but Ill have to say so far i am highly impressed. My weeds are nothing like they used to be in my other garden and the moisture retention is amazing. I went from watering daily to about once a week. Im going to cover again after the spring garden with wood chips.

Everything is looking great so far (knock on wood). Im starting to get some fruit development on my tomatoes, all my potatoes came up, and i already have a couple small squash coming in. I got one pine tree cut down, and 1 more to go. Thanks again for all the tips and advice.


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## Dick Hanks (Aug 16, 2007)

Dang.... That all looks great! I think that you are off to a wonderful start. Well done!

That's the kind of fence that I'll be using to replace my chicken wire!


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## Lunkerman (Dec 27, 2004)

Good job Part Timer.


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