# Fly tieing question



## Popperdave (Jul 9, 2016)

While it's too cold to fish i have been watching a lot of fly tieing videos. Question i have is about palmering feathers. Some videos show them tieing in at the top of the feather and palmering back towards the base of the feathers. Others show them starting at the base and work to the tip. What is the reasoning, advantages, of each?


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## Golden (Aug 1, 2006)

I have a good idea, over forty of the top fly tiers in the south are going to be a Bethany Christian Church on inside the loop on Westheimer this Saturday for the Ed Rizzlo Fly Tying Festival. You would be able to get great tying pointers from some of the best in the sport. Not to mention fly rod casting instructions, great raffle prizes and good food for lunch. Ive been for the last 8 years and learn something new every time I go. Lots of flys given away too. Hope to wee you there.


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## karstopo (Jun 29, 2009)

Yes, I donâ€™t know why some tying recipes have it tie in by the tip and others by the base. Maybe itâ€™s all to take advantage of the length of the hackle coming off the feather stem.

I tied yesterday afternoon just because it was so blessed windy, way too windy to get out in a kayak.






























On the Jack Gartside website, his recipe has the marabou on these Gartside muddled soft hackle deceivers tied in by the base of the feather and then wrapped forward. I followed that plan on the SBS. I went off-script on the tail and a few other details. In my experience, seems like some off-script changes to fly tying recipes are pretty neutral, some could be positive and others negative. I think I have been going along with the recipes on how the hackle gets tied in. I donâ€™t think itâ€™s a problem to experiment on how the hackle gets wrapped on. Itâ€™s only a problem if the fish donâ€™t approve.


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## Bird (May 10, 2005)

I don't tie a lot of flies using feathers but the few I have make me think it has to do with the length of the feather strands and how it shapes the collar or body of what you are tying.


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## karstopo (Jun 29, 2009)

I donâ€™t always practice what I preach, but one issue Iâ€™ve noticed with using any palmered feather, Hackle, soft hackle like marabou is that sharp toothed saltwater fish can quickly sever the feather stem wrapped around the hook shank. Iâ€™ve noticed this on borski sliders with the hackle wraps in front of the tail and behind the deer hair. I try to come back over the palmered in Hackle with a few wraps of the tying thread. So if something with sharp teeth gets the fly, the tying thread reinforcement helps keep the hackle from unraveling. 

But any saltwater fly tied with natural fibers and feathers is on the clock. They are only good for so many fish before thereâ€™s nothing left of them. The synthetic materials hold up much better. Still, I like fishing flies with real hair and feathers even if they last for just a few fish.


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## A Jones (Jan 30, 2020)

I like tying saddle hackles in at the base first, so i can palmer a little of the fluff into it.


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## Popperdave (Jul 9, 2016)

I agree with the longevity problem with nature materials. That's why most of my saltwater flies now days are made with synthetics. Unfortunately you can't always get the same look or action out of the synthetics. I find this particularly noticeable in the small size flies(Bonefish flies) and freshwater flies. So I guess we will have to keep using real feathers and fur until someone invents a synthetic feather that looks and moves like a real one.


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## txhunter2506 (Jun 10, 2014)

If you wrap tip to base I think you get more out of each feather since its not really practical to use the base of the feather and you end up cutting it off anyways but other than that it seems to be personal preference


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## bones72 (Oct 29, 2019)

It has exactly to do with the effect of the feather barbs coming off the stem. Picture a simple wooly bugger. You want the small barbs at the rear of the fly while larger barbs should form the collar. It is also usually more desirable to have the webby feather barbs up front on a hackle collar. This is something you usually see with saddle hackle style flies as opposed to the typically/comparatively very small hackles used to tie trout flies.


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## prepeini (May 3, 2020)

bones72 said:


> It has exactly to do with the effect of the feather barbs coming off the stem. Picture a simple wooly bugger. You want the small barbs at the rear of the fly while larger barbs should form the collar. It is also usually more desirable to have the webby feather barbs up front on a hackle collar. This is something you usually see with saddle hackle style flies as opposed to the typically/comparatively very small hackles used to tie trout flies.


Thank you very much for the pretty cool solution.


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## SKIFFSTIFF (May 8, 2009)

*palmering hackles*

This is what I was taught.It all depends on what action that you want to impart to the fly.Tie in the base of the feather first at the head of the fly gives you a bulky front head that will push a lot of water.Tie in the tip first at the head and you get a smooth transition from small to large and this lets the fly slip thru the water.
SKIFFSTIFF


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