# Deer Sausage



## Weather Or Knott (Feb 25, 2008)

This was my first attempt, it turned out pretty good. 60 / 40 ratio venison to pork. I also mixed in garlic, onion, jalapeño and cheddar cheese. I smoked it on my propane smoker for 5 hours keeping the temp under 165.


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## Gator gar (Sep 21, 2007)

Next time, I would suggest using some sodium nitrite cooking at that low of temperature. Botulism will kill you. I've got 30 pounds in my smokehouse right now. I put a cure and phosphates in mine. Helps with that moisture retention and prevents botulism.

I hate to be critical, but I would also hate to see you or your family in critical care. Some others might want to chime in with some info.


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## Gator gar (Sep 21, 2007)

With that size diameter casing and 5 hours at 165 and no cure, scares the heck out of me. Somebody convince me otherwise, cause this is some dangerous stuff.


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## Shallow Sport68 (Oct 14, 2008)

Gator gar said:


> Next time, I would suggest using some sodium nitrite cooking at that low of temperature. Botulism will kill you. I've got 30 pounds in my smokehouse right now. I put a cure and phosphates in mine. Helps with that moisture retention and prevents botulism.
> 
> I hate to be critical, but I would also hate to see you or your family in critical care. Some others might want to chime in with some info.


What? i never made any,but thought you could just mix up a recipe and go.Didn't know making links could hurt you? Glad i didn't try it.


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## MarshJr. (Jul 29, 2005)

so if the internal temperture gets to 160, how is it any differnet than smoking a peice of pork?


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## Gator gar (Sep 21, 2007)

For all I know, there may be a different type of "Cure" that he used. I see a LEM box in one of the pictures and if that is his seasonings, it may have some kind of cure mixed in with it. I have just never seen a sausage come out brown like that with a modern cure mixed in with it. It usually comes out a mahogany color/reddish color like you see in the grocery stores. 

Just because the outside temp is 165, doesn't mean the inside temp is the same. It takes a long time for the inside to reach that temp.

Botulism thrives at temps in the 40-140 degree range, with moisture and lack of oxygen. Perfect smokehouse conditions, inside of the sausage casings. I doubt the internal temp. reached 145 degrees in those 5 hours at less than 165.

He said the smokehouse temp was less than 165. He never said what the internal temp was inside the casing.

Google botulism and read up on it. You'll see why I am concerned.


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## txbigred (Aug 7, 2007)

Listen to Gator gar, he is 100% correct!



Gator gar said:


> F
> 
> He said the smokehouse temp was less than 165. He never said what the internal temp was inside the casing.
> 
> Google botulism and read up on it. You'll see why I am concerned.


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## Gator gar (Sep 21, 2007)

Shallow Sport68 said:


> What? i never made any,but thought you could just mix up a recipe and go.Didn't know making links could hurt you? Glad i didn't try it.


Yep, there is more to it than that. Especially when smoking at low temps. Now if you throw some recipe together and stuff it into links and put it on the pit at 225, then there will be no problem. It is only when smoking at really low temps for long periods of time, is when you need the nitrite.(Cure)


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## Gator gar (Sep 21, 2007)

txbigred said:


> Listen to Gator gar, he is 100% correct!


Man, I was hoping you would come on here and back me up. I'd hate to see this person get sick.


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## Weather Or Knott (Feb 25, 2008)

The sausage is frozen now and I planned on fully cooking it before I eat it. Do you think that will be fine or should i scrap it and start over.


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## Gator gar (Sep 21, 2007)

I'd scrap it and start over. It'll probably have a rancid taste to it anyway, cause it almost has to be spoiled by now. You can try it, but cook it to a really high internal temp to make sure you kill any and all bacteria. 

Cook a piece, you'll know real quick if it is edible or not.

When you do your next batch, lets us know. There are a few on here that make sausage alot and can guide you step by step, to ensure you have a great tasting sausage instead of an alright tasting sausage and also a safe sausage to eat.


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## txbigred (Aug 7, 2007)

Weather Or Knott said:


> The sausage is frozen now and I planned on fully cooking it before I eat it. Do you think that will be fine or should i scrap it and start over.


Hmmm, I think that is a call only you can make. the standard rule is for the food not to be between 40-140 degrees for more than 4 hours, personally, less than three. The cure (sodium nitrite), is what allows you to keep the meat in the danger zone while smoking. You have to remember that is the internal temp, and not your smoker temp. so, by your post, you said 5 hours, but didn't say what your internal temp was. Just by looking at your sausage, I think your smoke house temps were higher that 165. Botulism is nothing to fool with, it isn't just a case of the runs...it can KILL you.

Dave

PS: Cooking does NOT destroy botulism toxins once they are formed


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## [email protected] (May 24, 2004)

For whatever it is worth - I always strive for an internal temperature of 180 degrees during smoking any product that does not contain cure. Two ounces of cure to 25 pounds of meat is always good insurance and can greatly reduce time/temperature required in smoking cycle. Zach's Spice company in Deer Park is a very good source for seasonings, casing, and cure compound. Cure also lends a uniform dark red color to the meat whereas a short smoke cycle can generate only a smoke rind and the center of your sausages will be gray in color.


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## txbigred (Aug 7, 2007)

EJ, your right that Zachs has some good seasonings, but the sodium nitrite cure is used at the rate of 1 oz/25lbs. of meat. In smaller batches, 1 level teaspoon per 5 lbs of meat is the correct amount. Sodium nitrite is a poison, so don't want to use more than necessary.

Dave



[email protected] said:


> For whatever it is worth - I always strive for an internal temperature of 180 degrees during smoking any product that does not contain cure. Two ounces of cure to 25 pounds of meat is always good insurance and can greatly reduce time/temperature required in smoking cycle. Zach's Spice company in Deer Park is a very good source for seasonings, casing, and cure compound. Cure also lends a uniform dark red color to the meat whereas a short smoke cycle can generate only a smoke rind and the center of your sausages will be gray in color.


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## Trucc2 (May 23, 2009)

I called and talked to Zachs Spice company in deer park. One of the guys looked it up for me and said for the amount of salt we used, and the temp range we got the meat up to which was 150-200 in the box that the sausage would be ok for consumtion. Even if it had spoiled, we will be able to tell in the first taste. The meat didnt taste sour, just alittle salty. Very helpful business, would recomend them to anyone. They also said they would provide recipies for next time we try it out.


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## br1006 (Mar 24, 2006)

Curious why so many people smoke their sausage for so long or even at all and then freeze it? Been making sausage for well over 10 years and never smoke any wet sausage. After stuffing and tying we hang it in the cooler to dry up some and then at the end of the day we wrap and freeze it. I only put smoke on the sausage once I go to actually cook it.

Dried sausage we smoke but we only put "cold" smoke on it and even then only for two hours max. It hangs and dries for about 10 days with a fan on it.

Also when putting cheese in sausage a "no melt" cheese is best to use.


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## MarshJr. (Jul 29, 2005)

found this at academy, for those in need.....hint hint


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## Gator gar (Sep 21, 2007)

MarshJr. said:


> found this at academy, for those in need.....hint hint


That's the real deal right there and I would never put 2 ounces to 25 pounds of meat. I would stick with what the USDA requires.


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## MarshJr. (Jul 29, 2005)

the directions on that bottle recommended 1 oz per 25lbs....what do you recommend gator?


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## [email protected] (May 24, 2004)

Thanks for correcting my error. I should have looked it up; for some reason two ounces just stuck in my mind. 

I checked my cookbook at lunch time and sure enough the batch of venison/pork salami I made last week weighed 20 pounds and I used 0.8 ounces of cure.

As for smoked/unsmoked debate, I would say it is all a matter of preference. I have made several recipes with and without smoking and enjoyed all of them. Perhaps the only advantage to smoking before freezing is being to able to cook it quickly in a skillet indoors and still have good old-fashioned smoked flavor. Grilling unsmoked sausage outdoors on a semi-smoky fire does the same thing.


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## Gator gar (Sep 21, 2007)

MarshJr. said:


> the directions on that bottle recommended 1 oz per 25lbs....what do you recommend gator?


1 ounce to 25 pounds, just Like TxBigRed said. That is what the USDA recommends. I'm trying to upload some pics of what I have in the smokehouse right now, on my wifes new computer. I'll start a new thread on deer sausage.


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## Bone Pile (Jan 23, 2009)

txbigred said:


> EJ, your right that Zachs has some good seasonings, but the sodium nitrite cure is used at the rate of 1 oz/25lbs. of meat. In smaller batches, 1 level teaspoon per 5 lbs of meat is the correct amount. Sodium nitrite is a poison, so don't want to use more than necessary.
> 
> Dave


Getting 1 oz. of cure evenly over 25 lbs. of meat. Is that easily done or is there a trick to it.


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## Reel Aggies (Nov 30, 2007)

mix cure and your spices with water and pour over the meat, it helps to disperse. I made 25# the other day. Just follow the label on the pink salt container.


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## dbullard (Feb 13, 2008)

Very good info right here guys.By now Gator Gator has finished smoking the sausage he made for me. He does a fine job .MMM MMM GOOD!!


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## Gator gar (Sep 21, 2007)

dbullard said:


> Very good info right here guys.By now Gator Gator has finished smoking the sausage he made for me. He does a fine job .MMM MMM GOOD!!


Not too quick. You're only getting half of it. I'm getting the other half.


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## txbigred (Aug 7, 2007)

Bone Pile said:


> Getting 1 oz. of cure evenly over 25 lbs. of meat. Is that easily done or is there a trick to it.


I mix the spices, cure and 1 cup ice water per 5 lbs. of meat and mix. It helps to have a big enough meat lug to mix in. I also wear rubber gloves when mixing....that stuff will freeze yer fingers off!!


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## gp2394 (Jul 1, 2008)

br1006 said:


> Curious why so many people smoke their sausage for so long or even at all and then freeze it? Been making sausage for well over 10 years and never smoke any wet sausage. After stuffing and tying we hang it in the cooler to dry up some and then at the end of the day we wrap and freeze it. I only put smoke on the sausage once I go to actually cook it.
> 
> Dried sausage we smoke but we only put "cold" smoke on it and even then only for two hours max. It hangs and dries for about 10 days with a fan on it.
> 
> Also when putting cheese in sausage a "no melt" cheese is best to use.


I sort of agree with this. I don't understand anything about what the rest of you are saying. Botulism, rancid, etc... I have been making my own sausage since I started helping my dad when I was a kid and he's been doing it over 60 years. Make the sausage you want. Pan sausage, make and freeze. Link sausage, make, hang in an a/c part of your house (utility room) overnight with a fan blowing on it to help it dry out. Next morning, smoke with a light cool smoke for 30 minutes, freeze. When you want to eat, either grill or boil in water. I am not criticizing what any of you are saying but I don't understand what kind of sausage you are making. It sounds like summer sausage. My .02.


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## txbigred (Aug 7, 2007)

gp2394 said:


> I am not criticizing what any of you are saying but I don't understand what kind of sausage you are making. It sounds like summer sausage. My .02.


Nothing wrong with making a fresh sausage, the ones we are talking about are a fully cooked smoked sausage...it is ready to eat and is quite good cold too. Most of the smoked sausages that you buy at the grocery store are fully cooked as well, but not nearly as good. Below is a picture of some smoked (fully cooked, ready to eat) Polish on the left, and snack sticks on the right.

Dave


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## baldhunter (Oct 8, 2004)

This link has some good info on sausage making http://www.ag.ndsu.edu/pubs/yf/foods/he176w.htm


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## patfatdaddy (May 29, 2004)

You need to dispose of it. Give me your address and I will come by and haul it off for you.
Pat


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## MEGABITE (May 21, 2004)

Good info on this thread. Thanks, guys!


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## tdgal (Jun 16, 2009)

You can also look up recipe ideas and tips on Zach's Spice web site.


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