# Info on Microguides



## SaltwaterAg (Oct 7, 2004)

I found a couple old posts from Terry about the testing he did with Microguides last year. Anybody using them more and liking the results? I haven't been building for a while and am kind of out of the loop. What I'm looking to build on is a Rainshadow 7' IP843 for wading. Thinking about a spiral wrap on the guides and wanted to go the MicroGuide route. I use 30lb. Power Pro and usually tie on a 3-4' leader of 20 lb. big game with a blood knot. Probably going to have to go down to 20lb. Power Pro and eliminate the leader w/ blood knot? Anybody using or make a rod like this for wading? Main question is how many guides (spacing)? Stay all on top or spiral? Stay with let's say 3.5's all the way? What kind of tip top? Sorry for the long post but the squirrel is rolling.


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## CoastalBent (Aug 3, 2006)

I'm just tried out my latest micro rod last thursday in the San Jacinto river. It's another 6' pistol grip with spiral wrapped Batson micros. I started with a 5 and went to 3.5 and then 3's to the tip. I couldn't be happier with it. It casts like a dream. It was giving me noticeably more distance and less backlash than any similar rod with large guides. I'm in the process of building out a wading rod on an ATC PV704 that I'm going to put spiral micros. I'll post up the results on that one soon... I don't think you'd have any problem with 30lb braid. That blood knot might be a different story though. I used the tip tops from Swampland. They work good as long as you have the right size tip. I put one on a flipping stick this week and had to split the tube. It worked, but it's not exactly pretty.


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## Mg50 (Feb 9, 2009)

Not to hi jack the thread. Has anybody had experience with a conventional casting rod with micros. I was planning on trying it this way. already have the micros but the tip i could not get smaller than a 5.5 ring.


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## Goags (May 28, 2004)

I wish I could get Bobby Feazel to post on this...I test casted his 8' crankbait rod this past wke that he built on top w/ 9-3.5 guides and split the tube for the top and wrapped over it. He also uses braid, but I'm not sure what knot he uses. All I can say is it works great. I've been playing today w/ Fuji SIC 3.5 setup all on top on a ATC PV703, and just can't keep the line off of the blank when static testing, w/o using 10 or so guides. I know it's ok for the line to touch the blank when not moving, but on mine it almost wanted to go below the blank, which is no good. I need to do more moving around and testing. It casts great, tho! Jerry


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## Steve Gardner (Mar 23, 2008)

Just answered this question for another builder in Private Message couple minutes ago so here it is with some size suggestions for your starting point before testing
Batson guides
My suggestion is also to do a spiral wrap

SPACING SIZE
Tip 6MM
7mm 3MM
8mm 3MM
9mm 3mm 
10mm 3mm
11mm 3mm
13mm 3mm
15mm 3mm or 3.5
17mm 4mm
19mm 5mm 
23 mm 6mm dbl ft. 
(also move to 23.5 then 24 and cast a few times stay with which ever works better for you)

What I have found, is that having narrower spacing towards the tips improves casting distance most of the time, especially on a conventional set up.

.


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## pg542 (Oct 9, 2006)

Steve, don't you mean centimeters on your spacing (left hand column)? I understand the narrower spacing closer to tip but that's alittle too close huh? lol,,,,Jim


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## CoastalBent (Aug 3, 2006)

So Jerry, how did Bobby get around the line touching the blank with all on top? Did he use more guides?


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## Goags (May 28, 2004)

I think Steve is suffering from post-traumatic stress following his presentation this past wke! Just kidding, he gave a great seminar! I too, am wondering about the mm#'s on the left. Straighten us out Steve(the original microman). Nice meeting you, too!
Jerry


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## Goags (May 28, 2004)

Kyle, he used 9 guides plus tiptop. I pulled on it and the line may TOUCH the blank, but certainly didn't go below it. Different blank than we use for sure(964). I bought a few of the XP3 963-965 for a bass fishing buddy...I'll figure it out sooner or later.
Jerry


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## CoastalBent (Aug 3, 2006)

Yeah, I think he deals mainly in bass rods, so it may have been a stiffer blank than an average trout/red blank. I'm pretty sold on the spiral, but if you come up with a solution for all on top, I'd be interested in learning more...


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## Steve Gardner (Mar 23, 2008)

Sorry Guy's! Yes I meant centimeters 

Jerry;
Thanks for the compliment.
First time for me to do a seminar, wasn't really sure how it went.

It took till about 11:00 pm Sat. night for my stomach to settle down, almost 12 hours after it was over.
I was having chest pains during breakfast thinking about it, had to do breathing exercises to get myself settled down.


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## apslp (Jul 1, 2008)

I did this micro guide spiral wrapped rod for a customer and he loves it. I think I will have to do one for myself. I got all my info and parts for the micros from Lance @ Swampland. It starts with a 4.5 double foot and finishes with a 3.5 with a 3.5 tip .


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## pg542 (Oct 9, 2006)

Are they making actual micro tiptops or is everyone still using a running guide at the tip?


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## Steve Gardner (Mar 23, 2008)

Yes they are making Micro tips up to certain tube sizes, But they are not always the best choice.
If you are using heavier line then I suggest staying with a 6mm tip (try the ALPS tip. It has a smaller outside profile so it looks smaller)
If it is a work horse rod Stay with the larger tip
The number one repairs I get in my shop year in year out it out is replacing broken 6 and 8mm tips or knock out rings on those tips.
Guys will get their $5.00 bait hung up then use their rod tip to knock it loose, then find out its going to cost them $25.00 to fix the rod
On fast reels they tend to reel the jig right into the guide, looking at the next spot to fish instead of were the baits at. I've knocked one out with the swivel from a Carolina rig, reeling the swivel into the tip.

On these types of rods the last thing I want to do is to take away 2/3 of the material that is there to begin with increasing the chances of this problem.
On rods were the abuse is not so bad I use the Micro tips. In three years I've only seen one of these fail while I have 6 rods with lager broken tips in my shop right now.

Also if using larger mono or floro lines the radius caused by the line when leaving the tip at an angle during flipping and pitching types of techniques causes then to push up against the blank on spiral wrapped rods, which can affect your accuracy.

My suggestion
6mm tip for
Spinner baits
Crank baits
Carolina rigs
Larger Jigs `1/4 oz and up/creature type baits, worms ECT. 
Definitely on flipping and pitching rods and frog rods

Micro tips for 
Drop shot
Shaky head 
Lighter top water stuff
Walleye jig type rods
Trick worms, flukes
Tubes
Med-light and on down rods
And 80 lb class tuna rods (just kidding)


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## pg542 (Oct 9, 2006)

Good points...I can see where the microtips could be a bit more delicate than conventional. ....#80 tuna stick. lol. Yessir, I need a 14/64 tube with 3.5 ring. Got anything like that? Or whatabout roller -micros?????? ,,,Jim


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## SaltwaterAg (Oct 7, 2004)

Great info guys I appreciate it. My plan is to do a spiral wrap like the one posted so I'll just have to play with it a bit when i test it. 

And what the heck is Splitting the Tube?


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## Mg50 (Feb 9, 2009)

I'm going to try and make a conventional casting with Micros. Probably wasn't the smartest idea to tackle on my first full rod build but the micros are in so it all or nothing now. Steve thanks for going out of your way to help me with my spacing and other questions. Well back to work.


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## Steve Gardner (Mar 23, 2008)

Saltwater;
That is were the tube being to small to fit the end of the blank you take and exacta knife and push it down into the tube. Effectively splitting it almost to the front then spread it apart a little to fit over the blank.

Couple things to watch for 
Hold tip with guide down on surface securing it with some type of pliers having the teeth taped up. This keeps you from getting blood all over the threads lying around your work bench (VERY IMPORTANT TIP TO REMEMBER)

Don't spread any more then needed you just want to increase the inside diameter enough to fit blank

Take care to close up any unneeded space by carefully pinching the tube back if needed

Watch for a little hump that sometime happens at the end of the split, it needs to be eliminated or it will interfere with and possibly damage you fishing line when in use.


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## Bill Stevens (Mar 8, 2008)

Splitting the tube on a Fuji 4.5/3.8 Micro Top

Guide frame stainless with braces - installed on blanks with a blank tip diameter to 5.5.

Click on Picture when it opens for better view -

http://www.rodbuilding.org/photopost/showphoto.php/photo/8012/cat/500/page/2


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## pg542 (Oct 9, 2006)

I would think that it would only be a matter of time before the guide manufacturers realize the need for a little larger tube sizes on micro TT's. Might be worth an email to the bigger distributors and manuf's. Let them know the issue and what builders are doing to get around it. This problem with the tubes being too small has been around awhile and it doesn't seem like it would take much of a change in their manuf'ing process to be able produce them. Especially since micros are making their way on to larger and larger rod blanks(tip sizes),,,,Jim


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## Steve Gardner (Mar 23, 2008)

This issue is being addressed presently.
Fuji for the most part is not interested in doing any more then what's out there presently. We (custom builders) are a very small part of their world wide business. As far as they are concerned we don't provide enough market share to them to justify the cost, and their big customers are not asking for them.

Batson is working on it. There is a design in process right now that should address this problem completely, although a little different then what most people are used to working with it's a great idea and may even lighten up tips a bit more then standard designs. 

Talked extensively with American Tackle this week end about the "Micro Market" and at this point they are not interested at all. They've just post $250.000.00 in the equipment to build the minimal guides. With the thinking that their 4mm minimal would address the Micro needs. "With it being close to the blank like a Micro and having a larger Center at the same time".
Pac Bay is pretty much in the same place.

But they completely missed the boat on this, not realizing that the closer ring tolerances of the Micros are one of the key components to their efficiency in improved casting. 

I should have some of the Batson Prototypes in my hands in the next month or two and will let people know what I think good or bad.


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## CoastalBent (Aug 3, 2006)

Question... I just finished a heavy flipping stick and did spiral micros down to 3mm. I used a split tube tip, and am having problems with it. I'm using 15lb P-line mono, which is apparently too stiff because the line rubs the blank to the point that it won't let a 1/4oz bullet weight and hook fall freely. It casts heavy baits great and casts smooth, but it wants to hang up a little when letting line out to pitch. Would you just go to a bigger tip ring, or is a spiral just not the best way to go here?


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## Steve Gardner (Mar 23, 2008)

Kyle;
That is absolutely my recommendation. I would not use anything smaller then a 6mm for the tip on anything I flip or pitch with. If you use a 6mm alps tip the frame has a smaller profile, which I prefer
I spiral all my flipping pitching rods.


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## mark blabaum (Dec 6, 2007)

Steve, I'm curious where do you usually get the Alps tip tops? I was looking on Fishsticks and didn't see any listed there. I like the idea of a smaller profile as a normal #6 looks a little odd with the micro guides. I also have to commend you on helping other builders with the use and set up of micros. I've only 3 micro builds in spinning rods under my belt, but really enjoy using them. I really believe that micros have a bright future in custom rod building.


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## Steve Gardner (Mar 23, 2008)

Mark;
I've been getting mine from Custom Tackle

Thank you for the comment! 

Been using them for three years now, and I've yet to find anything I don't like about them. I think you are correct about their future.


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