# Integrity in the Face of Persecution



## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

Persecution comes in many forms. Jesus was persecuted, even by those that witnessed some of his miracles. Most of the apostles faced persecution in various forms, many losing their life because they put their faith in Jesus. Persecution for true worshipers of God still exists. It comes in the same forms as it did in Jesus day, verbal abuse, violent attacks, and everything in between. Still the disciple making work continues and is growing every year.

We understand persecution, and expect it. It doesn't mean we like it. Most of it is driven by Satan, as he targets God's people. Regardless we will endure.

Pr 29:10 10â€¯Bloodthirsty men hate anyone innocent,
And they seek to take the life of the upright

Amos 5:10 10â€¯They hate those who give reproof in the city gate,
And they detest those who speak truthfully.

Job set a wonderful example of endurance under persecution. Job 2:3 3â€¯And Jehovah said to Satan: â€œHave you taken note of my servant Job? There is no one like him on the earth. He is an upright man of integrity, fearing God and shunning what is bad. He is still holding firmly to his integrity, even though you try to incite me against him to destroy him for no reason.â€ 4â€¯But Satan answered Jehovah: â€œSkin for skin. A man will give everything that he has for his life. 5â€¯But, for a change, stretch out your hand and strike his bone and flesh, and he will surely curse you to your very face.â€

Those standing on the side of Jehovah God will never be silenced.


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## surfdad_96712 (Aug 29, 2006)

You are not being persecuted ,you are being exposed in the light of the true scripture as heretical deniers of the deity of God come in the flesh Jesus.

While all translations differ somewhat in their rendering of translation from ancient languages, yours is the only one (new world translation ) to actually change doctrinal content to satisfy your beliefs

The New World Translation is unique in one thing â€" it is the first intentional, systematic effort at producing a complete version of the Bible that is edited and revised for the specific purpose of agreeing with a group's doctrine. The Jehovahâ€™s Witnesses and the Watchtower Society realized that their beliefs contradicted Scripture. So, rather than conforming their beliefs to Scripture, they altered Scripture to agree with their beliefs

Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/New-World-Translation.html#ixzz2xB22Odx3


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## Danny O (Apr 14, 2010)

surfdad_96712 said:


> The New World Translation is unique in one thing â€" it is the first intentional, systematic effort at producing a complete version of the Bible that is edited and revised for the specific purpose of agreeing with a group's doctrine. The Jehovahâ€™s Witnesses and the Watchtower Society realized that their beliefs contradicted Scripture. So, rather than conforming their beliefs to Scripture, they altered Scripture to agree with their beliefs
> 
> Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/New-World-Translation.html#ixzz2xB22Odx3


Precisely!


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

The New World Translation went back to the original writings in Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic. Those that go to apostate websites can find what they want.

What about the translations that removed Jehovah's name or symbol from their translations. His name was used over 7,000 times. Some translations have included His name once or twice, some have eliminated it completely. The King James version had referenced it twice, it has now been completely from their translation. Deuteronomy 12:32 is clear this should not be done 32â€¯Every word that I am commanding you is what you should be careful to do. You must not add to it nor take away from it.

So I guess it is OK that the name of the most important personage in the universe be left out. That is one of the reasons that there is a lot of confusion about Jesus and Jehovah. 

Jesus was accused of being God, but Jesus never said he was God, in fact he refuted it.


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## Fish&Chips (Jan 27, 2012)

surfdad_96712 said:


> You are not being persecuted ,you are being exposed in the light of the true scripture as heretical deniers of the deity of God come in the flesh Jesus.
> 
> While all translations differ somewhat in their rendering of translation from ancient languages, yours is the only one (new world translation ) to actually change doctrinal content to satisfy your beliefs
> 
> ...


Excellent! Big difference between persecution and being exposed.


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

surfdad_96712 said:


> You are not being persecuted ,you are being exposed in the light of the true scripture as heretical deniers of the deity of God come in the flesh Jesus.
> 
> While all translations differ somewhat in their rendering of translation from ancient languages, yours is the only one (new world translation ) to actually change doctrinal content to satisfy your beliefs
> 
> ...


It is absolutely persecution. By the way, have you read the New World Translation? I bet not, so what you are doing is going strictly by heresay. That's typical.


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## surfdad_96712 (Aug 29, 2006)

You have absolutely no conception on what true persecution is about.
Here is some of what happened to true believers when they were persecuted 
The Faith of Many
â€¦and others experienced mockings and scourgings, yes, also chains and imprisonment. 37They were stoned, they were sawn in two, they were tempted, they were put to death with the sword; they went about in sheepskins, in goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, ill-treated 38(men of whom the world was not worthy), wandering in deserts and mountains and caves and holes in the ground.â€¦
You sir have just been called on the carpet for your religious views, and thats a far cry from the so called persecution you suffer,if you study the scripture in the light of its context instead of what an organization dictates you will see real persecution of believers who stood for the true faith


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

surfdad_96712 said:


> You have absolutely no conception on what true persecution is about.
> Here is some of what happened to true believers when they were persecuted
> The Faith of Many
> â€¦and others experienced mockings and scourgings, yes, also chains and imprisonment. 37They were stoned, they were sawn in two, they were tempted, they were put to death with the sword; they went about in sheepskins, in goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, ill-treated 38(men of whom the world was not worthy), wandering in deserts and mountains and caves and holes in the ground.â€¦
> You sir have just been called on the carpet for your religious views, and thats a far cry from the so called persecution you suffer,if you study the scripture in the light of its context instead of what an organization dictates you will see real persecution of believers who stood for the true faith


You have no idea of what you are talking about. Many of my spiritual brothers around the world have lost their lives because of maintaining their integrity. Persecution in this country is more toward this type of persecution. People want to believe everything they hear about the witnesses, or visit sites on the internet that are full of lies. Read the New World Translation and tell me how it is wrong. You do not address the issues I bring up. Go to jw.org and look at what we believe and why and then come back and address things. People can "call me on the carpet" for whatever they want. My beliefs are founded in the truths of God's word. You follow the teachings of a man that profits immensely off of God's word. The scriptures are clear "you received free, give free."


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## Fish&Chips (Jan 27, 2012)

surfdad_96712 said:


> You have absolutely no conception on what true persecution is about.
> Here is some of what happened to true believers when they were persecuted
> The Faith of Many
> â€¦and others experienced mockings and scourgings, yes, also chains and imprisonment. 37They were stoned, they were sawn in two, they were tempted, they were put to death with the sword; they went about in sheepskins, in goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, ill-treated 38(men of whom the world was not worthy), wandering in deserts and mountains and caves and holes in the ground.â€¦
> You sir have just been called on the carpet for your religious views, and thats a far cry from the so called persecution you suffer,if you study the scripture in the light of its context instead of what an organization dictates you will see real persecution of believers who stood for the true faith


So true surfdad. This is not persecution at all. Continue to exalt the name of Jesus brother!


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## surfdad_96712 (Aug 29, 2006)

I actually do have an Idea as having worked around the world including the kingdom of the Saudis, seen where people are starving physically and spiritually 
and you have the unmitigated self righteous piety to say your persecuted because somebody counters your beliefs .
This shows the level of brainwashing a cult induces its followers to,

I follow nor ascribe to no man ,My faith stands alone on the solid Rock King Jesus and the salvation he bought and paid for with his blood on the CROSS of Calvary
I gladly bow my knee to the creator of the heavens and earth Jesus ,
who are you bowing to ?.


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

surfdad_96712 said:


> I actually do have an Idea as having worked around the world including the kingdom of the Saudis, seen where people are starving physically and spiritually
> and you have the unmitigated self righteous piety to say your persecuted because somebody counters your beliefs .
> This shows the level of brainwashing a cult induces its followers to,
> 
> ...


Name calling will get you no where. I think you have counters and attacks confused. There is a difference. Jesus is my king and savior. His shed blood paid for my sins.
It is obvious that you do not know nor care about the persecution of the witnesses. Again you like to pick and choose. You need to go to websites that can give you the truth. Many are in prison as we speak because of their beliefs. Many I personally know were imprisoned in the US in the past. I guess to you that is not persecution. Persecution is only what you think it to be. How presumptuous. You set the rules. lol


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## surfdad_96712 (Aug 29, 2006)

Different jesus ,another gospel and no name was called out ,
Here is someone who is really being persecuted for his faith and needs our prayers
Saeed AbediniAn American Pastor in an Iranian Prison guilty for taking care of orphans and his faith
And yes its true I dont care about this so called persecution of Jws in this country or any other as its not really persecution

I imagine this is what your talking about
Minority religious groups in Turkmenistan are frequently subject to government interference, harassment, intimidation, and arbitrary arrest. Young male Jehovahâ€™s Witnesses are subject to arbitrary arrest if they refuse to perform compulsory military service as a result of their religious beliefs. Jehovahâ€™s Witness conscientious objectors are most commonly charged under Article 219(1) of the Turkmen Criminal Code which punishes evasion of military service with up to two years of correctional labor or imprisonment.


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

surfdad_96712 said:


> Different jesus ,another gospel and no name was called out ,
> Here is someone who is really being persecuted for his faith and needs our prayers
> Saeed AbediniAn American Pastor in an Iranian Prison guilty for taking care of orphans and his faith
> And yes its true I dont care about this so called persecution of Jws in this country or any other as its not really persecution
> ...


Same Jesus, one and only.


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## Danny O (Apr 14, 2010)

If were the same Jesus there would be no need to rewrite the scriptures.


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

Pet Spoon said:


> If were the same Jesus there would be no need to rewrite the scriptures.


The scriptures have been rewritten many times. There is only one Jesus Christ that was sent to earth to sacrifice his perfect life for all of mankind. Are you Muslim, or Buddhist? lol


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## Danny O (Apr 14, 2010)

Translations have evolved but the original meaning remains except for those organizations/sects that rewrite/change scripture to fit their deceptive agenda. If I were a Buddhist or Muslim we'd be on the same page.


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

Pet Spoon said:


> Translations have evolved but the original meaning remains except for those organizations/sects that rewrite/change scripture to fit their deceptive agenda. If I were a Buddhist or Muslim we'd be on the same page.


Not! Again Have you read The New World Translation? If you haven't how do you know what it says? By some of the garbage you read on the internet? You are probably one that believes if it is in print on the internet it must be true.

What is it the bible says about gossip? Proverbs 20:19 19â€¯A slanderer goes about revealing confidential talk;
Do not associate with one who loves to gossip.

Here is the same scripture from the KJV a little harder to grasp, but the same point 19He that goeth about as a talebearer revealeth secrets: therefore meddle not with him that flattereth with his lips.

Here is what Paul related about gossipers to Timothy at 1Timothy 5:13 13â€¯At the same time they also learn to be unoccupied, going around from one house to another; yes, not only unoccupied but also gossipers and meddlers in other peopleâ€™s affairs, talking about things they should not.

KJV 13And withal they learn to be idle, wandering about from house to house; and not only idle, but tattlers also and busybodies, speaking things which they ought not.

Everybody loves a busybody. If you want to discuss the truth about things I will be glad to, but you shouldn't be quoting cites that are biased. Nothing good can come out of lies and gossip.


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## Danny O (Apr 14, 2010)

Zechariah 12:10 ...they will certainly look to the One whom they pierced through (NWT) 

They will look on Me whom they have pierced (NIV) 

It had to be changed because JW does not believe that Jesus is Jehovah.


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

Jesus is Jesus. Jehovah is Jehovah. We do look to Jesus as the one we model our lives after, and it was he that was pierced. 

NWT (Zechariah 12:10) â€œI will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the spirit of favor and supplication, and they will look to the one whom they pierced, and they will wail over him as they would wail over an only son; and they will grieve bitterly over him as they would grieve over a firstborn son.

Jesus gave his life for us, but he is not Jehovah.

KJV 18That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.

One of the two scriptures in the KJV that address Him by his name, not His position. Note His name ALONE is Jehovah. There is no other, and He has other titles, but no other name, certainly not Jesus. 

Again, a lot of confusion comes from the elimination of God's name in most bibles. Disagree if you want, but the truth to those that use discernment is undeniable.


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## jimk (May 28, 2004)

If the letter "J" was the last to be added to the english alphabet in late 15th century, what was "Jehovah" prior to that?


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

jimk said:


> If the letter "J" was the last to be added to the english alphabet in late 15th century, what was "Jehovah" prior to that?


Really don't know and certainly don't care. Jehovah is the accepted translation from the original language.


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## Tortuga (May 21, 2004)

jimk said:


> If the letter "J" was the last to be added to the english alphabet in late 15th century, what was "Jehovah" prior to that?


Don't think the JW was founded until the 1870s


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

Tortuga said:


> Don't think the JW was founded until the 1870s


I am not sure when the King James bible was written but it was published Jehovah in that bible. In the original language it was designated by the tetragrammeton (sp) or YHWH. Not sure of the point.


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## Tortuga (May 21, 2004)

shaggydog said:


> I am not sure when the King James bible was written but it was published Jehovah in that bible. In the original language it was designated by the tetragrammeton (sp) or YHWH. Not sure of the point.


No 'point' intended...except that the letter 'J' had been around a long time before the JW were founded.... No offense intended...:tongue:


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

Tortuga said:


> No 'point' intended...except that the letter 'J' had been around a long time before the JW were founded.... No offense intended...:tongue:


No offense taken. I just wasn't sure if there was a question in there that I could answer. I apologize if I came across harsh. I never have a problem explaining why we believe as we do, from the scriptures and was not sure how to respond. Sorry if I offended you.


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## jimk (May 28, 2004)

I meant no offense either. The letter "J" is missing from the original King James Bible and it was mostly used to replace the letter "I." There was no "J" in Hebrew, Greek or Latin. Through the ages language has changed. The banner "INRI" above Jesus' on the cross/tree meant "*J*esus of *N*azareth, *K*ing of the *J*ews in our current language.


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

jimk said:


> I meant no offense either. The letter "J" is missing from the original King James Bible and it was mostly used to replace the letter "I." There was no "J" in Hebrew, Greek or Latin. Through the ages language has changed. The banner "INRI" above Jesus' on the cross/tree meant "*J*esus of *N*azareth, *K*ing of the *J*ews.


No offense taken. I just wasn't sure how to respond. Hopefully I did not offend you, I meant none.


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## finkikin (Jul 8, 2011)

jimk said:


> I meant no offense either. The letter "J" is missing from the original King James Bible and it was mostly used to replace the letter "I." There was no "J" in Hebrew, Greek or Latin. Through the ages language has changed. The banner "INRI" above Jesus' on the cross/tree meant "*J*esus of *N*azareth, *K*ing of the *J*ews in our current language.


 Cool post, that was very interesting.


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