# Buck requirements for kids



## Deerhunter88 (Aug 4, 2013)

Any of you in Hunting Clubs that allow youths 12 and under to shoot a buck that typically would not meet the requirements for a legal buck according to your club rules?
We now allow kids, under 13, one buck of choice a year until they reach 13 years old. Once they turn 13 they must shoot club requirements which is 8 point or better. Here in Louisiana anything is legal as long as it doesn't have spots, so over the years, several young spikes and three points have been shot by kids on our club. I love seeing kids shoot deer, but are we damaging our herd? 
Deer numbers are down, especially bucks 3 years old and over. We pay premium money for a lease that the is very convenient for all members but the deer quality has gone way down. Deer quality started going down before the last manager even allowed kids to shoot a buck of choice. I'm trying to take over as manager of the club this year and want to make it right. Its hard making everyone happy but I don't see this rule allowing kids a buck of choice a year staying. I like giving kids their first buck so I could see it being a one time only deal. Once you kill that first state legal buck then you must shoot for club requirements or 6 point or better until you turn 13. Only one of the members really disagrees but I honestly don't know of any other clubs that allow this. Especially the ones in the same price range that we pay. I would hate for him to leave because of this but I don't see us keeping this rule with the number of kids we have in the club and also being able to grow our herd back into the quality herd it once was.


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## Deerhunter88 (Aug 4, 2013)

Looking back at it, every year we consistently have a member, or two, or three mess up and shoot a smaller buck than what is required. In the past it was just a slap on the hand. This I believe may be hurting us way worse than any kid shooting a small buck. These mistakes by the adults are 5 points, and 6 points. Baby Deer!! I want to change this. Need to have some consequences.


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

Agree, let them kill their one and only first buck, shooters choice. After that they must shoot club rules. No need for them to kill a spike or three point every year or even a young 8 pt if it doesn't meet the rules.

If an adult shoots a basket rack 6 pt and it doesn't meet the club rules, he should suffer a consequence. In even the thickest brush, you can tell the difference on those deer from a mature deer.


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## SSST (Jun 9, 2011)

To me, that's crazy. The kids are shooting many of your future 8 pts., i just don't get that concept at all. I would have no problems with a kid taking out a 2 1/2 yr old spike, but killing a nice young 6 pt is another thing. I have 3 kids that grew up hunting in antler restricted counties, it's tough at times, but the payoff is worth it.


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## wet dreams (May 21, 2004)

I think if they spent anytime at all with you in a stand they would not want to shoot just 'any' buck..


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## El Cazador (Mar 4, 2005)

It sounds like if things continue the way they are (now), someday you won't have any deer that even make the club requirements. If it were me, I would go with my gut and make the necessary changes...


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## Sgrem (Oct 5, 2005)

wet dreams said:


> I think if they spent anytime at all with you in a stand they would not want to shoot just 'any' buck..


This....teach them which animals you are after and they will respect the same....pretty simple.

Ultimate flexibility for first buck but I think some let their kids shoot deer too soon without respecting what it takes to earn that deer.....or set up 10 year olds to shoot 200" whitetails.....come awn people! Remember what it takes to earn the hunt.....it has nothing to do with getting bloody.


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## saltwatersensations (Aug 30, 2004)

I think the county rules should apply. Especially when you are on a clubb with other paying members. This will also teach them patience, disappointment, and excitement if they finally get a qualifying deer. You dont always get a buck. Thats why we keep going back.


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## Mr. Saltwater (Oct 5, 2012)

If you are shooting only "8 point or better" deer without consideration of the age of the deer I can understand why your deer quality is going down. 

Lots of other factors also come into play. How many deer are members allowed, how many members on how many acres, are guests allowed and what can they shoot, do deer shot by kids go against their parent's limit???

I'm all for making allowances for kids, but once they have that first buck they should probably play by adult rules IF you are concerned about deer quality.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

El Cazador said:


> It sounds like if things continue the way they are (now), someday you won't have any deer that even make the club requirements. If it were me, I would go with my gut and make the necessary changes...


X 2 Wont be long you wont have any bucks. Teach em to understand and shoot what is right. Dont knkow what your ratio is between kids and deer but that would be critical.


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## wet dreams (May 21, 2004)

saltwatersensations said:


> This will also teach them patience, disappointment, and excitement if they finally get a qualifying deer. You dont always get a buck. Thats why we keep going back.


THIS is being lost in the hunting world.....its all about the inches now, not to long ago you had 10s, 8s, 13s>> now you have inches= $$<<


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## tc hardhead (Jun 19, 2006)

We allow youths to shoot any deer whatsoever but on the other hand we always tell them to make the next one bigger than the last one that way we keep their interest up because most kids do not care what size the antlers are that just would like to shoot a deer and they get so excited I would never hunt with guys that would take that away from the kids. That's why you need to choose a lease as a family lease or a trophy lease.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Well I think family leases have to go by the rules too dont they ?? My thoughts being a child doesent exclude you from the rules.


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## tc hardhead (Jun 19, 2006)

CHARLIE said:


> Well I think family leases have to go by the rules too dont they ?? My thoughts being a child doesent exclude you from the rules.


So you think I should take my kids out and never let them shoot a buck unless he is a certain width and point total I'm glad you didn't raise me or my kids who would take that excitement away from the kids.


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## tc hardhead (Jun 19, 2006)

What kid wants to sit in a stand for countless hours all season long waiting for the right buck?


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## Deerhunter88 (Aug 4, 2013)

My son is 4. He has been in stand with me several times since he was 3. Seen several deer from stand with me. His reactions are different every time. I can't wait for him to get his first buck, but he will know what it's about before he takes the life from one. I won't allow him to shoot one until he fully understands what he is doing. He's getting there. I like the progressive rule for kids but still others disagreed. I'm not trying to grow 140" deer here. The head gear doesn't make the trophy for me. I like the story behind each deer that I harvest. Everyone's definition of hunting is different and I respect that. We are on a 3,000 acre patch of woods surrounded by cane fields so it's like we have a free fence! Maybe 30 hunters.


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## Deerhunter88 (Aug 4, 2013)

I will also be trying to change the 8 point or better rule. Go with something along the lines of 16" main beam OR 14" inside spread OR 185lbs. 2nd buck must be progressive. 
Right now we get one doe a piece until the biologist say we can take more.
We make up 1300 acres with 13 members. Another 300 acres can not be hunted and the rest is split between 3 other clubs. They are better ran than us.


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## wet dreams (May 21, 2004)

tc hardhead said:


> What kid wants to sit in a stand for countless hours all season long waiting for the right buck?


Happens over here ALL the time per TPW AR rules, time spent in stands with kids is one of the best teaching times EVEN with does....


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

tc hardhead said:


> So you think I should take my kids out and never let them shoot a buck unless he is a certain width and point total I'm glad you didn't raise me or my kids who would take that excitement away from the kids.


Hey I said nothing about rack or trophy I just said by the rules. I tried (well I did years ago LOL) to teach my kids to play by the rules not just shoot whatever.
Seemed to have worked out pretty well. Grown up to be pretty good adults. Dont seem to have given them any trauma or issues being told NO years ago when they were young.


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## Dukman (Sep 21, 2007)

Was on a family lease a while back that allowed two does, one spike, and one 8 point or bigger per membership. Allows the family to decide who shoots what and allows a lot of opportunities to teach the young about selection. You shoot anything else, regardless of who it is, you pay the club fine of $1,500. 

Sad part is I saw a few of what I thought were honest people throw there honor away over a 6 point deer.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

I mite say this. Its now grand kids and go through the same thing with them. But saying that we are lucky enough now to have a lease where culling must take place. Grand kids get most of , well probably all of that. Doe, and management deer. So they get plenty of shooting.


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## James Howell (May 21, 2004)

One who has been taught patience,for starters. To the original poster, you have 13 members who can also bring family members to shoot multiple bucks off 1300 acres. Right off the bat I can tell you that entirely too many deer are being killed for that acreage. That amount of pressure on that small of property will also cause deer to go nocturnal, or leave the area.



tc hardhead said:


> What kid wants to sit in a stand for countless hours all season long waiting for the right buck?


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## tc hardhead (Jun 19, 2006)

James Howell said:


> One who has been taught patience,for starters. To the original poster, you have 13 members who can also bring family members to shoot multiple bucks off 1300 acres. Right off the bat I can tell you that entirely too many deer are being killed for that acreage. That amount of pressure on that small of property will also cause deer to go nocturnal, or leave the area.


Don't get me wrong we get 2 bucks and 2 does and that's it. I just let my kids shoot my deer and we wait for the deer that excites them and that's why I stay on my lease because we let the kids get their deer.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

tc hardhead said:


> We allow youths to shoot any deer whatsoever but on the other hand we always tell them to make the next one bigger than the last one that way we keep their interest up because most kids do not care what size the antlers are that just would like to shoot a deer and they get so excited I would never hunt with guys that would take that away from the kids. That's why you need to choose a lease as a family lease or a trophy lease.


Your last post is certainly different than the quote above and later quotes. To allow them to shoot your quota is fine. I dont think anyone would have an issue with that..


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## tc hardhead (Jun 19, 2006)

CHARLIE said:


> Your last post is certainly different than the quote above and later quotes. To allow them to shoot your quota is fine. I dont think anyone would have an issue with that..


Charlie the OP was talking of quality of the bucks the kids shoot and that is what I addressed about the kids being able to shoot small bucks but trying to make the next one bigger. Kids can't just shoot without counting as one of our allotted deer they just do not have to wait for a buck to meet our guidelines for them to shoot a buck.


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## tc hardhead (Jun 19, 2006)

tc hardhead said:


> We allow youths to shoot any deer whatsoever but on the other hand we always tell them to make the next one bigger than the last one that way we keep their interest up because most kids do not care what size the antlers are that just would like to shoot a deer and they get so excited I would never hunt with guys that would take that away from the kids. That's why you need to choose a lease as a family lease or a trophy lease.


My original statement never said the kids deer didn't count Charlie.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

It said "any deer whatsoever" and thats pretty specific meaning anything. Maybe you didnt put it so I could understand (few others too). Apparently that is the case. To shoot whatever is on your tag is the way most folks do it. No problem. Good hunting to you and the kids.


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## tc hardhead (Jun 19, 2006)

CHARLIE said:


> It said "any deer whatsoever" and thats pretty specific meaning anything. Maybe you didnt put it so I could understand (few others too). Apparently that is the case. To shoot whatever is on your tag is the way most folks do it. No problem. Good hunting to you and the kids.


I guess we don't see eye to eye on this but you need to read people's posts a little closer next time before you comment. You apparently put your own twist on what I said.


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## railbird (Jan 2, 2009)

Allowing kids to take a first deer is a pleasure many of us enjoy while managing deer. When a ranch is managed properly, there are always plenty of the inferior deer around for kids to take. If you continue the 8 point or better rule you will soon have nothing but 6 points. Managing for maturity is the only way to have a chance at trophy deer. 

If your goal is to eradicate the deer, keep on slaughtering deer with no regard for the herd.


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## Deerhunter88 (Aug 4, 2013)

railbird said:


> Allowing kids to take a first deer is a pleasure many of us enjoy while managing deer. When a ranch is managed properly, there are always plenty of the inferior deer around for kids to take. If you continue the 8 point or better rule you will soon have nothing but 6 points. Managing for maturity is the only way to have a chance at trophy deer.
> 
> If your goal is to eradicate the deer, keep on slaughtering deer with no regard for the herd.


Definitely don't want to eradicate the deer but that looks to be the direction the club is headed unless something changes. I also believe in your statement "continue the 8 point or better rule you will soon have nothing but 6 points" which is why I want to change that as well.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

T C

Not going to get into a he said or didnt say with you so here we go. 

If "any deer whatsoever" is not clear or specific I dont know what is. Maybe you should think a little before "you" post something so misleading since you say Basically you really didnt mean that.


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## tc hardhead (Jun 19, 2006)

CHARLIE said:


> T C
> 
> Not going to get into a he said or didnt say with you so here we go.
> 
> If "any deer whatsoever" is not clear or specific I dont know what is. Maybe you should think a little before "you" post something so misleading since you say Basically you really didnt mean that.


The OP was asking quality of bucks and to which I answered we let them shoot any deer not as many as they want we can do this all day bottom line is I gave my 2 cents about what we do as far as kid shooting you wanted to criticize what I said and this isn't getting him or you or I anywhere so PM me if you want to talk about this anymore.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Ok TC Now I know why they call you Hardhead. LOL Now I am jus kidding so dont take me wrong.A good laugh and its all behind me. As I said earlier good hunting for you and the kids. Hope I didnt offend you sure didnt mean to. Guess I jus mistook "any deer whatsoever".


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## uncle dave (Jul 27, 2008)

choot em all.


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## Salty Dog (Jan 29, 2005)

If you want older deer then you have to let them get old. Pretty simple. An 8 point or better rule does not address age at all. You won't get old deer by killing 3.5 year old 8's.

I don't think setting a 8 point, 10 point, width, beam length, etc rules will do anything to help your age structure. At the very least any of those rules is going to cause as many issues as it solves.

You'd be better off saying bucks must reach maturity before they can be harvested. Let them get at least 4.5 years on them before you kill them. You can add a spike rule if you like, 2.5 year old or older spikes can be killed. Something like that, if you feel there is a benefit to killing spikes. 

It will take getting your members on board and educating them on how to age deer on the hoof to make it work. You will still have accidents. If the accidents are repeated by the same people then they need to go.

Edit... Meant to add that kids can follow those rules too. My son follows our rules and he has killed several very old bucks. He understands that we don't shoot just anything. He is 10 years old and is getting to the point he can age a deer pretty well on the hoof by himself. He can dang sure tell you if it is a mature buck or an immature buck. I don't think it has decreased his enthusiasm.

From what I have seen having a separate set of rules just for the kids leads to issues where someone has a nice deer that doesn't quite make the rules for the adults so they load up their kid and go kill it. I was on a lease where the wives and kids could kill whatever they wanted and when one of the members saw a nice buck that didn't meet our minimums they'd load up their wife or kid and let them kill the deer. The deer still ends up dead and it defeats the purpose of having management rules.


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## Captn C (May 21, 2004)

James Howell said:


> One who has been taught patience,for starters. To the original poster, you have 13 members who can also bring family members to shoot multiple bucks off 1300 acres. Right off the bat I can tell you that entirely too many deer are being killed for that acreage. That amount of pressure on that small of property will also cause deer to go nocturnal, or leave the area.


I guess the OP has edited the size of the property and the hunter numbers out of the original post, but I agree with James...too many hunters taking their "quota". Just about any amount of deer outside of one per spot is too many.

Also this property is in Louisiana so I don't know if they have AR rule to follow. I noticed a lot of posters mention following the "rules". But I'm all in for letting the kids do some shooting. IMO is more important than making them following "someone" else's idea of what they should shoot.

It's not practical to put south texas rules on a small tract of land in a heavily wooded area like most of LA is. Almost impossible to manage for mature bucks and the members get to shoot a deer or two...he needs to manage for deer numbers if he wants the members to get to do some shooting. But they should try to get their bucks up to 3.5yo before taking them. And I might suggest cut back on the number of doe taken.

But without knowing the composition of the propety this is all total guess work. Do they 1300 of deer habitat or 1300 of cow pasture...makes a huge difference on how to manage the property...


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## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

tc hardhead said:


> We allow youths to shoot any deer whatsoever but on the other hand we always tell them to make the next one bigger than the last one that way we keep their interest up because _*most kids do not care what size the antlers are that just would like to shoot a deer *_and they get so excited I would never hunt with guys that would take that away from the kids. That's why you need to choose a lease as a family lease or a trophy lease.


Then they should be fine with shooting doe or spikes...why on earth would you want them shooting immature fork horned bucks?

Let those baby bucks grow up and then let the kids see something that will really excite them. Surely you have taught your kids that it's not all about just killing something but that it's all about the entire hunting experience itself and what they learn while on a stand?

I'm sure glad we have the 13" rule where we hunt. That put a stop to most of the immature bucks being killed just because they had antlers.

TH


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## tc hardhead (Jun 19, 2006)

Trouthunter said:


> Then they should be fine with shooting doe or spikes...why on earth would you want them shooting immature fork horned bucks?
> 
> Let those baby bucks grow up and then let the kids see something that will really excite them. Surely you have taught your kids that it's not all about just killing something but that it's all about the entire hunting experience itself and what they learn while on a stand?
> 
> ...


 So I guess I'll be the whipping boy again.. How many people grew up hunting with antler restrictions or game management? If my kids shoot an inmature buck it's not the end of the world. We try to do our best as far as finding the"right deer" but the bottom line is my kids come first and we will get a deer. Nowadays you get critisized for shooting a deer unless it is 5 1/2 and atleast 13" inside spread or something someone says is a cull and should not be allowed to breed. I'm not saying we should go back to "if it's brown it's down" but a kid shooting a basket 8 isn't the end of the world.


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## TTKII (Feb 13, 2013)

Age is 1000% more important than 8 or better type rule. Watched a 10,000 acre corporate ranch in Rocksprings get shot up over a 15 year period because they had an 8 or better rule. 

Our current place basis everything on age. 5+ for management bucks - 6.5+ for trophy bucks. Spikes only get shot if they are 2+. We have grown a tremendous heard of 150+ class deer.


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