# In The Market For A New Radio



## darrenwilliams (Apr 21, 2008)

My Spektrum DX3R is getting a little long in the tooth and it is time for a new one. I have had this radio about 3 years and I have been very happy with it.

Pros:

Cost is reasonable ($300 TX/RX)
RX is very small (fits in my very crowded radio box well)
Setup menu is the easiet I have found. Even a 'tard like me cal get through it easily.
Light wieght
Cons:

Has always been a little glitchly at certain locations. Example - Back left corner of Ultimate has had some repeated issues and I have seen others with Spektrum radios have similar issues.
No point to attach a neck strap
So I am now looking at Futaba 4PK, KO Propo Eurus, Airtronics M-11 and the Spektrum DX3R Pro. Interested in hearing about a dollar's worth of $.02s.


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## ProBroAndy (May 2, 2011)

if you're looking into an m-11, have you checked out the MT-4? i got this radio not too long ago and so far i love it. the things i like aout it are it's smaller size and weighs next to nothing. i tried on a bunch of the radios you listed above when deciding.. the mt-4 felt best in my hands. just thought i'd throw the option your way. it can be found for around $249 new.

http://www.amainhobbies.com/product...SSR-24-GHz-Radio-System-w-Telemetry-No-Servos


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

Have had the following radios:
Airtronics M-11
Futaba 4PK
Spektrum DX3R
KO Propo EX-10 Eurus

The M-11 felt REALLY good in my hand, the menu was easy to figure out on my own without a manual, and the throttle & steering sensitivity was on par with all the others. Even with a lipo and a neck strap, I tried it back to back with the DX3R and just couldn't get over how heavy it was compared to the other. I have not tried the M-11X and it might be lighter though. Their new receivers are very small as well.

The DX3R was a good radio, but after having the others, it was obvious that it was a little cheaper, performance and quality-wise. Still the lightest radio I've had. Never broke other brands of receivers, but broke several Spektrum's on hard landings and such. Have not had the new DX3R pro, but I drove with Eric Pfalzer's and didn't feel like they'd done anything other than update the looks and drop the wheel down a little. Just as the M-11X, I did not race with it so take it for what it's worth.

The 4PK was an overall good radio as well. It was a very "neutral" radio.......meaning, they didn't try really hard to make it fit one specific person's hands, but to try and fit the average racers hands. That's what they're supposed to do, so it isn't something I fault them for, but it just didn't feel like anything special.......just a normal radio. Menu was kind of a pain......had to break out the book repeatedly. I like the radio, and the weight was good, but they ultimately lost me because of these three things:
1) On multiple occasions, it lost bind, and when I would try to re-bind the radio and it would not bind. I look in the book and it says something to the effect of "if there are too many 2.4GHZ radios running at the same time, it won't bind. Wait for the number of radios to reduce and try again". Sure enough, I look up, and there are like 15 people on the driver's stand. I never told Earl this, but it actually bound to Earl's radio while he was driving, and I could follow his car around the track with my eyes, and watch it turn my wheels when he would turn! That day, I ended up driving down the street and binding and then coming back to the race. 
2) The receiver was kind of large.....it always left me with a cramped radio box.
3) The final straw was Futaba's infamous receiver overheating. I had what Futaba claimed to be the "new/re-vamped" receiver, and it still overheated on multiple occasions (and this was with an ELECTRIC car!)

So, I'm running the KO Propo now, and I haven't really found a fault in it so far. At first, I did not like the way you set the steering travel, but it has grown on me and would actually be frustrated if I had to go to another radio that did not function this way. I can simply bump a button on the side of the radio and give more/less steering depending on how the car is acting. This was especially important with the Mugen, which was uber-sensitive to just slightly too much steering travel. Ultimately, what has sold me on the KO is:
1) Tiny Receiver
2) Neck Strap
3) The Steering and Throttle sensitivity and linearity......has been the best I've seen on the radios I listed above.
4) The drop-down multi-angle wheel attachment......when it comes to comfort, there is no substitute for the multi-angle attachment!

On a side-note, I drove a car with that new inexpensive Airtronics MT-4 radio and was quite impressed. Felt VERY on-par with the DX3R, but was a little more comfortable, and the steering/throttle felt more accurate and more sensitive. Was impressed with the fact that it was like $200 too! I have noticed several very fast people racing with them lately, so I guess I'm not the only one that had a good impression.

Good luck with your choices!


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

LOL....I guess Andy was posting while I was typing.......there's another vote for the MT-4 LOL!

Jason Beam has one he'll let you check out.


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## darrenwilliams (Apr 21, 2008)

I'm hisitant on the MT-4 becuase of the telimtry. I had this on the Spektrum for a while and was not that impressed with it. In addition, it makes the RX larger. I did read that it will work with thier smaller RX but then I have to buy that too. My RX box is very full. RX, AMB and a capacitor. That about all the room I have.

Courtnye's post has me leaning KO. I had the overheating issue on the "old 3pk" in my nitro. That is what drove me to Spektrum. I did not realize they were still having the issue on the 4PK.

Keep 'em coming. Need another $.96 more in opinions.


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## Labrat99 (May 6, 2009)

If you're serious about the $300, then your only choice is the DX3R Pro. The Futaba is $500 and the Airtronics and KO are almost $400.

I think performance wise, you could probably throw a blanket over all four of them. Durability and build-quality is where you get what you pay for. I've been through three cheap(ish) 2.4 Ghz radios in three years. When my DX3S broke on me at the River Track and Mike Garrett loaned me a 4PK for the night, I immediately saw the difference a "Pro" radio makes.

The Futaba is too pricey for me and I ended up getting a real good deal on an M11X, so that's the route I took. So far, it's been perfect. I hope I can tell you the same two years from now.


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## darrenwilliams (Apr 21, 2008)

Not happy about the price on most of these radios but I only have to buy it once and it should last a few years. With that being said, I'm open to all of them.


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## Gary (May 21, 2004)

I just went from the M11 to the KO and couldn't be happier. I never did like the M11.


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## Graydog328 (Mar 8, 2006)

I love my M11, never giving me any sort of a problem. But if it ever goes down the MT-4 will be my next radio. M11 does get allitle heavy during long mins.


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## Jasoncb (Jun 25, 2010)

The great thing about the mt-4 is that it will bind with ANY airtronics receiver!! Whether it is from the m11 or the mx sport. MX sport receivers are really small and cheap too. 

Besides the 4pk the mt-4 is probably the easiest to navigate through the menus.

I would not over look the mt-4 just cause it has telemetry, just dont use it, I don't.


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## ProBroAndy (May 2, 2011)

darren,
the rx i got with my MT-4 is quite small actually. i got an older non-telem. fhss-2 rx and they are the same size side by side


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## Labrat99 (May 6, 2009)

darrenwilliams said:


> Not happy about the price on most of these radios but I only have to buy it once and it should last a few years. With that being said, I'm open to all of them.


Sorry Darren I misread your original post. I was thinking you were wanting to limit your outlay to $300.

Honestly, out of the four choices you gave I think the sweet spot as far as price/performance goes is either the KO or the M11x. You're welcome to drive my car a little bit ( maybe half a lap or so ) to see if you like the M11x.


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## killerkustoms (Nov 6, 2008)

Since you use the DX3R then you will like the MT-4, I thought the same when I noticed it had telemetry but its different from the DX3S, more solid. That will be my next radio if mines go down...


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## tebone626 (Apr 25, 2010)

i run the m11x, and although it is big, i dont have any problems with it being to heavy. i have had it for over a year, and i run three classes a race, and i have had no problems out of the radio or any of the recievers. the only thing i dont like, is the price of the recievers. they are around 70 to 100 bucks. your welcome to drive one of my cars, and see how you like it. it has way more options than i will ever use .


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## JustinK (Jan 17, 2009)

Labrat99 said:


> Sorry Darren I misread your original post. I was thinking you were wanting to limit your outlay to $300.
> 
> Honestly, out of the four choices you gave I think the sweet spot as far as price/performance goes is either the KO or the M11x. You're welcome to drive my car a little bit ( maybe half a lap or so ) to see if you like the M11x.


Ekkk! 1/2 Lap? Are you sure about that? You've seen this video right?






Darren I would have to say if you had the ko propo it would have only looked like you had 1 or 2 crown and cokes. That Spectrum radio made it look like 6+ crown and cokes.


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## darrenwilliams (Apr 21, 2008)

LMAO. Actually that was Mark's radio. I should probably stay away from whatever that was. Ya, I think that was the problem.


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## Hogster (Jan 21, 2010)

OMG..............

I Actaully feel sorry for the buggy. It was like a deer fell through thin ice on a lake and all it was tryin do was get out. It sounded like the buggy was crying out for help.


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## Smiley (Feb 2, 2005)

MT4 All the way....Cant go wrong with it. It responds much faster than the M11 and M11X. Its the best bang for the buck....Hands down.


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## Labrat99 (May 6, 2009)

JustinK said:


> Ekkk! 1/2 Lap? Are you sure about that? You've seen this video right?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


LOL! Thanks for the heads up Justin. I thought half a lap would be pretty safe, I thought I had him pegged LOFT-wise but I forgot to factor in the "Crown effect"! Okay, Darren you are more than welcome to drive my car for half a lap as long as its early in the day! :work:


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## Labrat99 (May 6, 2009)

Smiley said:


> MT4 All the way....Cant go wrong with it. It responds much faster than the M11 and M11X. Its the best bang for the buck....Hands down.


Sorry Smiley, but I gotta call BS on that. Why would Airtronics ship a mid-level radio that was faster than their flagship model. That would instantly kill the market for the pro level product. That would be nuts. If you want a radio "almost as fast" as the M11x and want to save some bucks, get the MX3x.


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

DAYUM that was funny!


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## Bigj (Jul 22, 2007)

Darren I have a m11 with a specktrum in it if you wont to try it just bind and fly has a lipo also


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## darrenwilliams (Apr 21, 2008)

I went ahead and ordered the KO Propo Eurus. I have had all the other brands at one time or another. It's time to try KO. Rush delivery. Hopefully I will be ready for River the weekend. Now I need to go build my new buggy so I can put the old one out to pasture (parts car).


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## Gary (May 21, 2004)

Good choice!


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## kstoracing (Oct 30, 2008)

I have been rocking the same KO since about 2005, no problems yet. I guess the processor may be a little dated but, I can't notice. The only thing I did was buy the 2.4 system and i am golden. The only draw back their rec are at a premium but, they have one for $75 on Amain. The regular is $125 I think the difference is a extra protective coating on the antenna wire.


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

Did you get the multi-angle attachment?

Ohh, and if you need spare receivers, the little $50 KR-210S receivers work flawlessly with the Eurus......no need for the $100+ receivers.

http://www.google.com/products/cata...a=X&ei=I0JBTqOAPY6Xtwfx4MW4CQ&ved=0CDEQ8wIwAQ#

Let me know when you get ready to set your steering and throttle/brake EPA........it's a little tricky at first, but once you understand why they did it that way, you'll love it.


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## Gary (May 21, 2004)

Dang. :headknock I spent $125 for another RX. I have the offset wheel thingy but haven't installed it yet. Not sure I need it.


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## darrenwilliams (Apr 21, 2008)

No I didn't order anything extra. The radio alone is gonna have me eating Ramen Noodles for the next month.


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## Gary (May 21, 2004)

darrenwilliams said:


> No I didn't order anything extra. The radio alone is gonna have me eating Ramen Noodles for the next month.


It *IS *expensive!


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## ProBroAndy (May 2, 2011)

Labrat99 said:


> Sorry Smiley, but I gotta call BS on that. Why would Airtronics ship a mid-level radio that was faster than their flagship model. That would instantly kill the market for the pro level product. That would be nuts. If you want a radio "almost as fast" as the M11x and want to save some bucks, get the MX3x.


lets look at latency for a second here...after all, this is what it boils down to correct??? i think it's all hype.. but thats me.

M11x = 4ms
MT4 with telemetry set up = 8ms
Mt4 with FHSS 3 rx, no telem. = 6ms
MX3x= "ultra fast latency" no numbers given.. if it was that fast, i assume it would be advertised in number form...

maybe smiley feels it's faster to him. but calling him out on a 2ms difference is pretty funny. personally, i think no one could ever "feel" such a fraction of a difference. let alone, not enough to be considered a "pro level", or better yet, spend twice the cash on a radio to get something 99.9% of people feel in their heads just cause they have to justify why the dropped half a grand for a whopping 2ms of faster response time.

just to clarify, 2ms difference = two thousandths of a second. again, god-like reflexes to really "feel" this.

in a 1/4mi drag race, thats the difference of the guys license plate frame being infront of the other car for the win... lol


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

Spend the $50 and get the multi-angle attachment..........


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## ProBroAndy (May 2, 2011)

fun math of what happens in 2ms:

a remington .223 fired from a 24" barrel starts its journey at 3240fps. in 2ms, it travels a whopping 74" from the casing.. or 6' 2"
thats a bullet.

lets do an rc car approaching a corner at say 25mph.
from the time you turn the wheel, to the time you servo turns the car, it has traveled .0068 of an inch. lol


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## darrenwilliams (Apr 21, 2008)

I love math


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## ProBroAndy (May 2, 2011)

darrenwilliams said:


> I love math


me too, i may have missed a decimal, so i could very well be wrong somewhere lol. i was having a porcelain break moment at work..
:headknock :work:


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## killerkustoms (Nov 6, 2008)

Courtney Vaughan said:


> Spend the $50 and get the multi-angle attachment..........


Spend another $25 and get a cool Crown & Coke radio wrap, should cut another 2ms to your lap times.


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## Labrat99 (May 6, 2009)

ProBroAndy said:


> lets look at latency for a second here...after all, this is what it boils down to correct??? i think it's all hype.. but thats me.
> 
> M11x = 4ms
> MT4 with telemetry set up = 8ms
> ...


I believe in his original post Smiley said something along the lines of the MT4 being way faster than the M11x. It's not, case closed.

I can tell you something about latency, when I borrowed a 4pk when my DX3s broke, I spent the first couple of packs I ran running into pipes on the inside of corners. I determined right then that the replacement for my radio was gonna be the fastest that I could afford.

I'm not saying the MT4 is a bad radio, it may in fact be a great one. I don't really know. My point is, if you ARE after the fastest radio you can get, the MT4 isn't it.


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

I have see the "latency argument" so many times it's not even funny!

With a low latency time, it's something that you didn't know you were missing until you don't have it anymore. You learn to compensate with a slower response time radio, and then when you pick up one that is 2-4ms faster, you do as Rusty said, and have to learn to re-adjust. And then if you try to go from a super low latency radio back to a slower response time radio, then you notice the difference BIG TIME.........even though on paper it seems like a miniscule amount of time, you can feel it easily when going back and forth. 

In the end, you want something that will respond as fast as possible, and the first generation of 2.4ghz stuff seems like a joke compared to the new stuff like is in the new KO, Futaba, and Airtronics radios.....and the even the new Spektrum Pro radio. 

As for the MT-4 being faster/slower, I was able to pick one up after using my KO Eurus and it was dayum close to being as fast........what peaked my interest was that it was so close in response and accuracy, and darn near half the price of my radio! As for build quality and such, I can't attest......


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## Hogster (Jan 21, 2010)

Try the ones with the steering wheel, there pretty cool. After watching the video with the poor buggy I really don't think anything else matters.


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## Smiley (Feb 2, 2005)

The MT4 feels like it responds quicker. It also depends on what servos you are using as well. The MT4 is a top of the line radio at a inexpensive price. Trust Me! Its an awesome radio....


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## Ginther (Mar 19, 2011)

I liked my old M8 back in the day, and when I got back in the hobby I went with the M11X. I really like it. Feels great, lightweight, easy to operate, etc etc.... 

(insert shameless plug here - since I've decided to get out of the hobby, I'm selling mine in the for sale section.)


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## Merdith (Sep 20, 2009)

*Yep*

I would get the Airtronics MT-4 if I was to buy a new radio.

I trust Airtronics the most going back to 1990....


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