# Let's make leaders.



## sharkchum

I get a lot of questions about how to rig leaders for surf fishing. I'm not saying this is the "Only way" or the 'Best way", but it's my way, and it's been proven to work time and time again. This is a basic steel leader for casting that I use during the summer or when sharks are around. It works great for sharks, reds,drum, jacks, stingrays, or anything else that can be caught in the surf. For these smaller casting leaders I like to stick with smaller leader material in the 100# to 250# range. I understand that there are Great Whites in the Gulf, but your chances of catching one casting off the beach in Texas are pretty slim, so you don't need 1500# cable, so stick with the smaller size leader. In this case I'm using 135# because I had it in my box, but you can vary up or down in size depending on availability. To start off with cut 2 pieces of leader material around 24" long and one around 18". Here again this isn't rocket science, if you cut 2 30" and one 26" it will still work, the important part being that 1 is shorter than the other 2. Attach one end of a 24" piece of leader to a swivel, in this case I'm using a 4/0 size, always double or triple crimp all connections, big fish have a way of finding any weakness in your rig. I also cover all my crimps with heat shrink tubing. It's not necessary, but it looks cool and keep the crimps from ripping my hands open while leadering fish. Now attach the other end of piece of leader with the swivel to one end of a 3-way swivel, this is also a 4/0 size. Once that's completed, take your other 24" piece of leader material and attach one end to a snap swivel for your sinker and the other end to the 3-way swivel. Now you take the 18" piece of leader material and attach one end to the drop on the 3-way swivel and the other end to your hook, in this case a 9/0 Lazer Trokar circle. When it come to hooks, as with the leader material, your not trying to land "JAWS", so there is no need for giant hooks. I try to match my hooks to the size bait I'm using, so I keep a assortment of circle hooks in the 5/0 to 10/0 range. Now you have a simple, affordable, and durable leader that will hold up to anything your going to catch on a casted line.


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## sharkchum

Now, lets say you want to kayak your line out, maybe because the bull reds are running right past the 3rd bar, but you don't wan't the bigger sharks tail whipping your line and cutting you off. The solution is simple, take the same leader and just add a 8' to 10' piece of 400# mono to the top swivel, problem solved.


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## sharkchum

In the winter months or if your not concerned with sharks at all, all you need is a mono leader. Any mono between 60# and 100# will work, here I have 80# sufix just because it was in my tackle box. This is the same as the steel leader, only cheaper and easier to make. Start off with 2 long and one short piece of leader. Tie one end of a long piece to a swivel and the other to a 3-way. Tie the other long piece to the 3-way and the other to a snap swivel or directly to your sinker. Now tie one end of your short piece to the last eye of the 3-way and the other to your hook, here I'm using a 6/0 Gamakatsu octopus circle. It's fast, cheep, simple, and it works.


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## fishingcacher

What size crimps do you use? I noticed there are no colored beads on your leaders. Do they not make any difference in catching fish? Thanks for your instructive post.


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## sharkchum

fishingcacher said:


> What size crimps do you use? I noticed there are no colored beads on your leaders. Do they not make any difference in catching fish? Thanks for your instructive post.


 I use the appropriate size crimps for the leader size I'm using at the time. In this case they were size .048". Almost all leader material made has what size crimps you need printed on the package, if they don't I just open the packages in the store and find the one that fits. I personally don't like beads, I feel the more stuff you add to your leader the greater your chances are of spooking the fish. I catch more fish on a simple mono leader than anything else, because it's basically just a line and a hook and there's nothing to spook the fish. The only time I use steel is when sharks are around.


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## gettinspooled

Thank you for this post. I will be putting together some leaders this winter for next summer.


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## fishingmagnet

when tying your mono, what kind of knot is that? Palomar knot? It looks simple


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## sharkchum

fishingmagnet said:


> when tying your mono, what kind of knot is that? Palomar knot? It looks simple


Improved Clinch Knot. Simple, fast, and it works.


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## ROBOWADER

how did you put those 2 swivels together like that or do you buy them like that? Looks almost like a magic trick...


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## sharkchum

ROBOWADER said:


> how did you put those 2 swivels together like that or do you buy them like that? Looks almost like a magic trick...


I'm Magic........ Actually I order them online, I've never seen them in any stores.


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## JFolm

I was going to ask where you get those 3 way swivels. They are pricey.


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## sharkchum

JFolm said:


> I was going to ask where you get those 3 way swivels. They are pricey.


They are actually cheep. I think a 25 pack of the 4/0 are around $6.


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## [email protected]

You can get the snapper swivels at FTU on I-10. 

I like using a bigger hook (14/0) because to me it is easier to remove the hook.

Good post!


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## 535

here's some great info on crimping, may come in useful

http://www.leadertec.com/tipsandtechniques/crimp_techniques.html


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## sharkchum

jc said:


> here's some great info on crimping, may come in useful
> 
> http://www.leadertec.com/tipsandtechniques/crimp_techniques.html


Very good imfo. Thank's for the link.


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## JFolm

sharkchum said:


> They are actually cheep. I think a 25 pack of the 4/0 are around $6.


Where do you buy yours? The ones I have bought were 300#-400# and were around $1/each I believe.


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## sharkchum

JFolm said:


> Where do you buy yours? The ones I have bought were 300#-400# and were around $1/each I believe.


 I usually get them off ebay or from http://catchalltackle.com/.


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## longcaster

Why do you not use crimps for mono?

Nevermind, I just saw you were using 80lb.
I made some leaders out of 200lb mono and used crimps.


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## Runway

Somebody hit some green for Sharkchum! :walkingsm


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## Riley & Sons

Green to you for the informative post!


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## Riley & Sons

Won't let me give green until I spread some around. I tried


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## BadBob

what are you using to crimp these with?


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## sharkchum

BadBob said:


> what are you using to crimp these with?


These. Mine are a little weathered but they still work fine. Almost any place that sells the leader material and crimps will carry the crimping pliers, around $10 to $20.


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## Salty-Noob

Green for the info

Now I just need to catch you needing someone to reel in the fish again


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## hog_down

Nice write up! Thanks for sharing


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## BadBob

this is great to know, a couple weeks ago i had a few store bought leaders fail and one was pulling serious drag


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## JFolm

sharkchum said:


> I usually get them off ebay or from http://catchalltackle.com/.


Cool, I've purchased some items from him before. Looks like 25 are about $12. Thanks.


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## Surf Rodder

Just a week or two ago I wondered about the rigs I've made; knowing other & better ideas were out there. *Killer thread, SC. Thanks, bro!*

:texasflag


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## peckerwood

This is one of the best reads I've seen posted in a long time.


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## fishingmagnet

you know that I did with my line after I crimp. I burn the end of the excess line with lighter, so it will clump together like a black mass. And it is like additional safety precaution to prevent the mono from slipping out of the sleeve.


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## jimj100

sharkchum, i believe the preferred crimper is a "cup to cup" rather than a "cup-to-point" like in your picture. I'm not sure what percentage of fish this will affect. Maybe only the very upper end of trophies that really put your connections to the test...


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## Surf Rodder

fishingmagnet said:


> you know that I did with my line after I crimp. I burn the end of the excess line with lighter, so it will clump together like a black mass. And it is like additional safety precaution to prevent the mono from slipping out of the sleeve.


I do the same where I tie my line mono (typically 40-50# test) to my leader swivel. Can't say its ever saved me a fish but I know I've never reeled in dry line with a blunt & burnt burn-ball at the end of it.


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## fishingmagnet

how does the improved clinch knot compare to uni-knot. And is there a limit to size that you cannot do with Improved clinch knot. Like 100 lbs or more, it would make it hard for the knot. I mean the knot could stick out like sore thumb and might get in the way of the fish trying to get hooked up.


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## sharkchum

fishingmagnet said:


> you know that I did with my line after I crimp. I burn the end of the excess line with lighter, so it will clump together like a black mass. And it is like additional safety precaution to prevent the mono from slipping out of the sleeve.


I do the same thing on my big gear, its like a fail-safe, but I melt the tag end before I pull it tight and crimp it to make sure I don't weaken the leader. I also use the leader protectors for a little added security.


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## sharkchum

fishingmagnet said:


> how does the improved clinch knot compare to uni-knot. And is there a limit to size that you cannot do with Improved clinch knot. Like 100 lbs or more, it would make it hard for the knot. I mean the knot could stick out like sore thumb and might get in the way of the fish trying to get hooked up.


I use the improved clinch knot on everything up to 100#,and I have never had a problem, anything bigger and I use crimps.


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## sharkchum

jimj100 said:


> sharkchum, i believe the preferred crimper is a "cup to cup" rather than a "cup-to-point" like in your picture. I'm not sure what percentage of fish this will affect. Maybe only the very upper end of trophies that really put your connections to the test...


I've never run into any problems crimping cup to point,but on my big gear I do things a little different. If I'm after big sharks I use what's referred to as a "Offshore loop" connection for all my cable. Its basically just a figure 8 knot tied around the hook or swivel before you crimp it and I have never seen one fail.


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## TexasTom

Great post, Sharkchum! It it really appreciated, even all the explanations of why you do things a certain way. Removing the voodoo magic sure catch only-one-type-of-leader-works syndrome!
Thank you,
Tom


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## sharkchum

Now if you have a lot of time on your hands and are not easily frustrated, you can get into cable weaving. This is hard to explain and ever harder to do. You can only do it with 49 strand cable. What this means is they take 7 wires and twist them together, than they take 7 of these and twist them together. 7x7=49. What you do is split the strands so you will have 4 on one side and 3 on the other. After you split them put your hook or swivel on one strand. Now what you basically do is weave them back together forming a loop. It will only go back together one way, so if its not laying down smooth your doing it wrong. After you make the loop just put one crimp where the 2 ends meet the main leader. This connection will not fail, even without a crimp. I never recommend this to anyone because the frustration from trying to do it usually leads to alcoholism or drug abuse.


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## fishingmagnet

For metal leader, you can do haywire twist instead of crimp. I do that for kingfish rig.


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## sharkchum

fishingmagnet said:


> For metal leader, you can do haywire twist instead of crimp. I do that for kingfish rig.


Yes you can, but only on single strand wire, not cable. I don't recommend using single strand wire for surf fishing leaders because it is prone to getting kinks and breaking. However, single strand wire is great if your throwing lures and there are a lot of smacks or blues cutting you off, so learning to make a haywire twist is important. They make a tool to make them, but with a little practice you can do it just as good by hand. Cut a piece of single strand about 4" longer than you want your finished leader to be. Pass about 2" of wire through the eye of your hook, swivel, or lure and bend it forming a V. Now wrap the tag end around the main leader 5 or 6 time, than bend the tag end out 90 degrees from the leader. Continue wrapping the tag end around the main leader forming a tight barrel wrap. No bend the tag end to form a small crank and twist the crank to break the tag end off smooth with the leader. It's that simple.


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## Sancroix

A fortuitous thread, as I was just about to ask a question about leader making. Once again, thank you for your time and knowledge.

What are your thoughts about a float on the hook line, to keep it off the bottom? I've seen single-line rigs sold at stores that put a float between the weight and the hook. The gimmick is to suspend the bait just off the bottom. I bought one once, then promptly lost it at Sea Wolf Park; but the theory seems sound. I know the thread here is primarily about basic setups, but have you (anyone here, FTM) had experience with this?


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## sharkchum

Sancroix said:


> A fortuitous thread, as I was just about to ask a question about leader making. Once again, thank you for your time and knowledge.
> 
> What are your thoughts about a float on the hook line, to keep it off the bottom? I've seen single-line rigs sold at stores that put a float between the weight and the hook. The gimmick is to suspend the bait just off the bottom. I bought one once, then promptly lost it at Sea Wolf Park; but the theory seems sound. I know the thread here is primarily about basic setups, but have you (anyone here, FTM) had experience with this?


I've tried it, it's a gimmick at best. The float caused to much drag while casting and shortened my casting distance. It also was good at snagging every piece of weed, grass, sticks,and other trash in the water. While in theory, the float holds the bait off the bottom, in dead calm water. In reality, in the surf, with crashing waves and strong currents the float did nothing more than whip the bait around in every direction at lighting speed, so even the fastest fish in the sea didn't have a chance to get the bait. Even if it did work like it's supposed to, there is no reason to suspend your bait off the bottom when your fishing for bottom feeding fish like reds and drum, their mouths are on the bottom for a reason.


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## beerdruid

I thought I would resurrect this thread (have it bookmarked) as I know a lot of us will be hunting bull reds soon in the surf. I made a bunch of these last year based of sharkchums instructions and they work great. Already made a few more last weekend to have extra laying around. These work great for sharks as well by the way. 


Robert....


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## dredwards

Sharkchum,
Any particular reason you don't use a "sliding" weight like so many I see?


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## sharkchum

There are several reasons I don't like sliding sinker rigs. The main reason is because they tangle to much, either when casting or while in the water. They also don't cast as good because of the location of the sinker. I've also found that they have a poorer hook up ratio then the leaders I use. To top it all off, there is no reason at all to use a sliding sinker rig while surf fishing. The fish don't sit there and swim around chewing on the bait. They flare their gills and suck in the bait in the blink of a eye, than they swim off. When they do, I want my hook tight between my sinker and my rod so the hook sets immediately. I don't want them swimming around to have a chance to feel the hook or leader and spit the bait out.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## dredwards

Makes perfect sense. Thanks for the reply.


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## Dead Wait

Hey sharkchum. The cable weaving technique is bullet proof. Not even a need for the crimp. I've seen D6 dozers drag stuff around with a piece of braided cable.


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## Illbethere

Sharkchum, Im headed down to Sargent October 11th thru the 15th. Can I use the mono leaders in the surf, or should I use the steel ones, in case of Sharks for that time of year?


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## sharkchum

Illbethere said:


> Sharkchum, Im headed down to Sargent October 11th thru the 15th. Can I use the mono leaders in the surf, or should I use the steel ones, in case of Sharks for that time of year?


 If your not interested in catching sharks, then just use mono. The worse that can happen is you get cut off. There are still plenty sharks around in October and November if you want to catch one. The only problem with using steel leaders is sometimes the reds get spooked by them, but other times they don't seem to care.


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## iamatt

What about weedeater line leaders for reds? Saw someone here using some drop rig with weed eater line and maybe just an overhand knot to make the loops. Looked pretty cheap and effective but can't dig it up

Sent from my ONE E1005 using Tapatalk


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## TJCast

That float set up works on the east coast for Striped Bass. Further north you get more trash fish and green crab will pick you clean before you attract a fish. This rig does work but as Sharkchum said it can cause more drag in the water and on the cast. You have to choose the correct size float of the size of bait you will be using. So if you want to float mullet or manhaden then you will need a big float which can become a big pain. I prefer to use a small float for smaller baits to keep it away from annoying bait stealing fish.


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## sharkchum

iamatt said:


> What about weedeater line leaders for reds? Saw someone here using some drop rig with weed eater line and maybe just an overhand knot to make the loops. Looked pretty cheap and effective but can't dig it up
> 
> Sent from my ONE E1005 using Tapatalk


 Sure, you can use weedeater line to make leaders. You can also use a shoelace, the wire off a pair of ear buds, or the small intestine of a platypus, but why. Leader material is cheep. For around $20 I can make enough leaders to fish for over a year. There is no reason to put yourself at a disadvantage by using things for a task they weren't designed to to.
I'm not saying you can't catch fish with a leader made out of weedeater line, because you can. You can also use a rock for a hammer, a screwdriver for a chisel , or your pocket knife as a pry bar, but you would preform all of those task better if you were using the right tool for the job.
I'm not successful in the surf because I'm better than anyone else. I'm successful because I use the right tools for the job.
It's not any single thing that makes the difference, it's everything working together. The reel, rod, line, leader, weight, hook, and bait all need to be working together. 
I'm sure there are other people who have just a much or more success in the surf as I do, and I'm sure they have their own ways of doing things, and I bet if we were to compare notes we would find a lot of similarities. I'm not claiming my way is the best, but it works for me and it can work for you to.


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## I Fall In

Sharkchum, great info. One question, what type leader set-up do you use when using rays for bait? OK 2 questions, where do you hook them?


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## davidluster

What is yalls opinion on the three way leader vs. mouse trap method for redfish?


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## sharkchum

I Fall In said:


> Sharkchum, great info. One question, what type leader set-up do you use when using rays for bait? OK 2 questions, where do you hook them?


 I don't use ray for bait unless I'm really desperate and I have no other options, in that case I just cut a chunk out of the ray and put it on the hook.


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## iamatt

Ball of ray is what I use for the last yak out when its pitch black. It last longer, all night or until it gets picked up. Dont need to string our an 8 lb ray. Cut a strip off the wing or mid section with all the guts! Like I said we push ray out 'one last time' and hangs in there ok.

Sent from my ONE E1005 using Tapatalk


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## shadslinger

sharkchum is right you can use anything long and stringry to make a leader. Wet noodles, lol!
Some work and some don't.
I use weedeater line to make the leaders I use for bull reds in the surf, I have some of the original ones I made 15 years ago and they still catch bull reds in the surf.
I have lost a few to sharks, which is intended. 
After five neck and spine surgeries and extreme problems with muscle and joint pain,etc... sharks of any size are just too rowdy for me to handle without paying for it badly later.
Weed eater leaders are cheap and easy to make with nothing but a knife, weed eater line, heavy swivels, and some heavy snap swivels if you want take on/off surf weights, some pliers really help though.
I make them long enough to not get in the way of making a decent swing for casting while wading.
I tie a heavy swivel one one end with a uni knot of three to four turns, then about 10" to 12' down I tie another over knot, on the other side of it go two beads then a heavy snap swivel, two more beads and about 18" from the last knot tie another.
After 10 more inches of line your hook on the end with a uni knot.
So most of my leaders are in the 34" to 38" range
Tie to your fishing line, snap on a spider weight/surf weight and bait with a whiting head.
Cast into the trough or gut between bars, which one depends, and place the rod in a holder already prepared.
Rinse and repeat.
I start with four rods out, and if the fishing is good it's down to one pretty quick, with one on deck.
I have used the weed eater leaders to catch big blue cats in fresh water and they work there too.
Get the small diameter blue line.


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## shadslinger

After reading many of sharkchum's surf reports I have also tried the sinker on bottom and a drop hook rig using weed eater line, requiring a three way swivel. They have worked well for me too.
I use them from piers or in passes most it seems, as I like the fish finder rig with a traveling sinker and hook on bottom. Just confidence and habit I'm sure.

The whole purpose of using the weed eater line is price, and it works just as well fpr my targeted fish, bull reds. 
With a roll of it, some surf sinkers, and a few packages of swivels and a pack of beads from hobby lobby your are set for a long, long, time with a very low cost.
You don't need crimping pliers etc... and it it all fits in the door pocket of my truck in a zip lock bag and does not rust or corrode,
ready for use anytime. The beads cradle the swivel from the knots on the line and help absorb the shock on the swivel and knot when a big fish shakes it head violently.
It is not for shark fishing, sharks over 4' bite it off or tail whup and release themselves very nicely.


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## edjman

You can also make double drop leaders with weedeater line. I use them when there's plenty of bait to use. It took a little practice making a dropper loop with trimmer line. Just rinse them off and they will last forever...

I also use leaders very similar to shadslinger, the only difference is I use sliding snaps instead of the beads.

Don't underestimate trimmer line. We wouldn't use it if it didn't work right and for $20 you have enough leader material for a lifetime


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## hate23putt

Ok. I received my shipment of leader building materials today via Amazon. I am going to try tying the knots versus using Crimps. My only concern is the size of the snap swivel as it says it is rated for 170 LB and the barrel swivels say 300 LB. Hopefully, this will work. If not, please someone chime in and let me know if I need bigger ones. I will be fishing for bull reds, black drum, etc. from the surf or cuts in mid October. Here is what this cost me from Amazon:

1. Crane Barrel Swivel ( Size 4/0--300LB) (10 pieces)---10.99
2. 3-Way Crance Swivel (Size 4/0--350 LB) (10 pieces)--10.79
3. KastKing 80LB Monofilament Blend Leader (120 YDS)--8.98
4. AFW Mighty Mini Snap Swivels (#3 170 LBS) (4 pieces)--5.98

Total after tax (Amazon prime)--$37.23


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## sharkchum

I know I've brought this up before, but I didn't see it on this thread so Ill bring it up again. Another reason I don't like sliding sinker, mouse traps, or any type of leader with the weight above the hook is because a fish can and will use the weight for leverage to shake the hook loose. Ask any tarpon fisherman what happens with a weight between you and the fish, even their jig heads are made to break away so the don't lose the fish. Also,with your sinker above the hook, if the sinker gets hung up it creates slack in the line and will cause you to lose the fish.


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## Farmpond

*question*

Do you use 4/0 swivels on your mono leaders also?


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## sharkchum

Farmpond said:


> Do you use 4/0 swivels on your mono leaders also?


Anything from 2/0 to 6/0 will work just fine, 4/0 is a happy medium.


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## peckerwood

I'd sure like to buy a leader just because I do much better making something with a true pattern in hand,and it would look cool hanging in my man-cave(dump).


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## Big Guns 1971

ROBOWADER said:


> how did you put those 2 swivels together like that or do you buy them like that? Looks almost like a magic trick...


fishing tackle unlimited has them.


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## batmaninja

sharkchum said:


> Another reason I don't like sliding sinker


I always like your visual aides Chum.

This makes a lot of sense. I have been using the sliding weights because I think i can cast better when the weight is down by the bait, but with that being said. You have a lot more pictures of big fish than I do


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## buton

does academy in Houston carry this stuff to make leaders?


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## had2reg

*Simple Basic Double Drop Leader*

Using Ande clear 80lb mono, attach a swivel with a four turn uni-knot. Tie two drop loops in the leader using the alpine butterfly knot and attach a hook to each drop loop. At the weight end, tie a surgeons loops and attach sinker.


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## edjman

My usual bait rod leader except I use a duo lock snap for the weight


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## sharkchum

*Double leaders*

There was a time when I used double drop leaders, before the accident. I had caught 2 bull reds at the same time, and while removing the hook from the first red the other one flopped, driving a 5/0 circle hook through my finger. The point stopped right under the nail on the opposite side. Being it was only 8 in the morning and the reds were biting one after another, going the the hospital wasn't a option. I knew I couldn't continue fishing with a hook and leader hanging from my finger, and since regular hook removing techniques don't work with circle hooks, I had to operate. I got my pocket knife and inserted in my finger along side the hook shank. When I felt the blade was deep enough, I very quickly slit my finger open, than I got my rusty pliers and ripped the hook out. I wrapped some toilet paper around my finger to stop the bleeding and fished the rest of the day. Two things have never happens after that day. I've never regained feeling in that finger tip , and I never fish with double leaders anymore.


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## beerdruid

> I had to operate. I got my pocket knife and inserted in my finger along side the hook shank. When I felt the blade was deep enough, I very quickly slit my finger open, than I got my rusty pliers and ripped the hook out. I wrapped some toilet paper around my finger to stop the bleeding and fished the rest of the day.


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## edjman

OUCH


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## shadslinger

I fish with edjman at the beach and make sure I keep my distance from those two hook leaders for just the reason sharkchum noted, and displayed, yawzer!!
It's always been more fun to me to fight one fish at a time anyway.


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## edjman

The double drop leaders have served me well so far so I'll stick with them. Worth the risk to catch twice as many fish, eh?:cheers:


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## had2reg

I fish double drops....... and.......Oh the horror, I also fish mirrolure 51's with nine flesh grabbing hook points.


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## Charlie in TX

I have a low threshold for my kids pain. I tend to use as few hooks as possible to get the job done. In addition, when the plan is to release most of the fish that day, I smash the barb good and tight or buy barbless hooks.


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## spicyitalian

The only time I ever put a hook through my finger was the first time I was tying a mono leader and while trying to slip a uni down the hook went right in the meat of my thumb and back out. Turns out luckily enough this was the first time I was going to give barbless hooks a try too. Scared me enough that I don't really try to make mono leaders anymore. I pretty well always use wire.


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## dredwards

Sharkchum,
Great information. What type, size leader do you make for your bait rod setup?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## fishinganimal

I'm a firm believer in the weight on the bottom as well. Setting the hook on a good size weight you can imagine how it projects in who knows what direction. That whiplash will cause many missed bites. Great post SC


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## Surfslayer76

Thank you SC for the post. I made my first leaders last week with 80# fluorocarbon and crimps. They turned out great, but I want to cover the crimps, I think. What is everyone's thoughts on using heat shrink to cover crimps on mono or flouro?? Will the heat affect the integrity of the leader material?


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## gigem87

Surfslayer76 said:


> What is everyone's thoughts on using heat shrink to cover crimps on mono or flouro?? Will the heat affect the integrity of the leader material?


Never tested it but I am willing to be large money that it is a horrible idea.


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## sharkchum

dredwards said:


> Sharkchum,
> Great information. What type, size leader do you make for your bait rod setup?
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


30# mono with a size 1 or 2 khale hook and 2oz to 3oz pyramid sinker.


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## sharkchum

Surfslayer76 said:


> Thank you SC for the post. I made my first leaders last week with 80# fluorocarbon and crimps. They turned out great, but I want to cover the crimps, I think. What is everyone's thoughts on using heat shrink to cover crimps on mono or flouro?? Will the heat affect the integrity of the leader material?


 You don't want to use fluorocarbon for leader material, or anything else for that matter. It floats, its week, has poor knot strength, and poor abrasion resistance. It was designed to fish in crystal clear water for spooky fish and has no place in the surf.
Even with 80# mono you don't want to use crimps. You get a much stronger connection with a simple improved clinch knot. The less hardware you have on your leader the better off you are.
The 2 biggest enemy's of mono are uv rays and heat, so no, you do not want to try to shrink wrap the crimps on mono.
The only time I will heat mono is when I'm crimping 400# or bigger mono. I will melt a small ball on the tag end before I crimp it to help keep it from pulling through the crimp.


----------



## Sandman456!

had2reg said:


> Using Ande clear 80lb mono, attach a swivel with a four turn uni-knot. Tie two drop loops in the leader using the alpine butterfly knot and attach a hook to each drop loop. At the weight end, tie a surgeons loops and attach sinker.


That's exactly how I rig my bait rods and when I've caught enough bait I swap the hooks for bigger circles and fish them for bigger stuff in the next gut. That rig has served me well.


----------



## Fight The Fish

This guy knows what he`s talking about!



sharkchum said:


> You don't want to use fluorocarbon for leader material, or anything else for that matter. It floats, its week, has poor knot strength, and poor abrasion resistance. It was designed to fish in crystal clear water for spooky fish and has no place in the surf.
> Even with 80# mono you don't want to use crimps. You get a much stronger connection with a simple improved clinch knot. The less hardware you have on your leader the better off you are.
> The 2 biggest enemy's of mono are uv rays and heat, so no, you do not want to try to shrink wrap the crimps on mono.
> The only time I will heat mono is when I'm crimping 400# or bigger mono. I will melt a small ball on the tag end before I crimp it to help keep it from pulling through the crimp.


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## sharkchum

Just bringing this to the top for people looking for surf fishing info


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## Lagavulin62

Not having any luck at Academy or Gander finding the right wire and swivels. Probably need to go to FTU. Do you mind sharing where you buy your supplies online? 

Thanks and love the posts. Can't wait for the wind to cooperate.


----------



## Fishin' Soldier

Lagavulin62 said:


> Not having any luck at Academy or Gander finding the right wire and swivels. Probably need to go to FTU. Do you mind sharing where you buy your supplies online?
> 
> Thanks and love the posts. Can't wait for the wind to cooperate.


If you know what you are after you cannot beat Amazon Prime.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## eliris

If you cant find the lose components, they usually sell the assembled leaders. That can get u out of a bind. They sell them for a couple of bucks.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## sharkchum

Lagavulin62 said:


> Not having any luck at Academy or Gander finding the right wire and swivels. Probably need to go to FTU. Do you mind sharing where you buy your supplies online?
> 
> Thanks and love the posts. Can't wait for the wind to cooperate.


Most of the stuff I get off Ebay or a place called Catch-All Tackle. Just shop around online and you will find better deals than in any store.


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## sharkchum

I'm always trying to tweek stuff and find way's to make things work a little bit better.
For the last year I've been playing with leaders to come up with a more universal leader that would be strong enough for sharks up to 6', but still light enough for slot reds. Steel leaders have always worked well for shark, but they would often spook the keeper reds and would get twisted up on occasion. The mono leaders worked great for reds and drum, but would get cut off by sharks every time.
I've been experimenting with combinations of different materials and hooks, of different sizes and lengths, to come up with a good casting leader that will handle a wider range of fish and not get tangled,and I think I've done it. With this leader I have caught fish as small as 20" reds up to 6" blacktips, and everything in between.

Here's how I make it.
Start off with 2 pieces of 400# mono, 1 cut to 24", 1 cut to 30". To 1 end of the 24" piece attach a 6/0 barrel swivel and to the other attach a 5/0 3-way swivel. I always double crimp this upper end and melt a ball at the end of the mono to keep it from pulling out.
Take the 30" piece of mono and attach a 3/0 coast lock swivel snap to one end and attach the other end to to the 3-way swivel. I just use a single crimp on this end, but I still melt a ball on the end of the mono. 
Now cut a piece of 150# steel cable 18" long. Attach one end of the cable to the 3-way swivel and the other to a 8/0 Gamakatsu octopus circle hook. I always triple crimp my cable and cover the crimps with heat shrink. If your adding heat shrink, make sure you slip it on the cable before you crimp it. 
This will give you a leader around 4 1/2' long that casts good, doesn't get tangled, and will handle a wide variety of fish.
I will be putting some of these in the classifieds for people who don't like making there own.


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## GKrane

What adjustment do you all make for leaders for long drops? Do you make a longer leader with larger terminal tackle and hooks? This would be for primarily targeting sharks.


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## sharkchum

GKrane said:


> What adjustment do you all make for leaders for long drops? Do you make a longer leader with larger terminal tackle and hooks? This would be for primarily targeting sharks.


 If I'm using bigger baits I will step up to a bigger hook and I'll and about 20' of 400#mono to the leader.


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## GKrane

sharkchum said:


> If I'm using bigger baits I will step up to a bigger hook and I'll and about 20' of 400#mono to the leader.


 So you keep the same 2 sections that are 24" long and the single section that is 18" long for the long drops as well?


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## sharkchum

GKrane said:


> So you keep the same 2 sections that are 24" long and the single section that is 18" long for the long drops as well?


 I may make them a little longer, but it really don't matter. I've never caught a shark with a tape measure in his pocket trying to measure my leaders.:rotfl:
The important part is that the hook section is shorter than the sinker section and you want to hook above the weight. I don't like making the hook section to long , because it will get wrapped up and tangled in the leader.


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## homebrew

thank you for all the informative post, what weights are your using ....been searching but want to know what has worked best for you


----------



## sharkchum

homebrew said:


> thank you for all the informative post, what weights are your using ....been searching but want to know what has worked best for you


I make my own. All the ones they sell are junk. I use a Do-It mold and 1/16" stainless for the legs. There is a thread on here on making them, but you will have to find it. I can make 2oz, 3oz, 4oz, 5 1/2oz, 8oz, 9oz, and 10oz with the molds I have. The 2oz and 3oz are worthless, I rarely use the 4oz, the 5 1/2oz I use 90% of the time, I use the 8oz if the current is bad, and the 9oz and 10oz for dropping baits with the jetski or kayak.


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## jbradchappell

How are you attaching the leaders to your main line? I lost several a few weeks ago. They broke at the main line


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## sharkchum

jbradchappell said:


> How are you attaching the leaders to your main line? I lost several a few weeks ago. They broke at the main line


With a improved clinch knot.


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## the toninator

sharkchum said:


> I make my own. All the ones they sell are junk. I use a Do-It mold and 1/16" stainless for the legs. There is a thread on here on making them, but you will have to find it. I can make 2oz, 3oz, 4oz, 5 1/2oz, 8oz, 9oz, and 10oz with the molds I have. The 2oz and 3oz are worthless, I rarely use the 4oz, the 5 1/2oz I use 90% of the time, I use the 8oz if the current is bad, and the 9oz and 10oz for dropping baits with the jetski or kayak.


I like the look of those, Ima give you a call when I need to restock.


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## jbradchappell

That's a lot of line hanging off then end of a rod to cast. What size rod?

I'm very new to this so pardon the questions if they are ignorant. Just trying to learn. 


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## sharkchum

jbradchappell said:


> That's a lot of line hanging off then end of a rod to cast. What size rod?
> 
> I'm very new to this so pardon the questions if they are ignorant. Just trying to learn.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 There is no such thing as stupid questions, you can't learn if you don't ask.
I use all 12' rods. There are a lot of reasons for needing a long rod for surf fishing, one of them is to be able to cast 4' to 6' leaders.
I have all the explanations here. http://2coolfishing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1654554


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## jbradchappell

Cool thanks. Guess it's time to upgrade my rods. Wife is gonna love it 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jbradchappell

this is one I made using a you tube tutorial. Made out of Sufix 80# leader material. Please suggest any mods. I know I want a swivel for my weight.

I use the crimps because tying all those knots tends to cut the **** outta my fingers

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## sharkchum

jbradchappell said:


> this is one I made using a you tube tutorial. Made out of Sufix 80# leader material. Please suggest any mods. I know I want a swivel for my weight.
> 
> I use the crimps because tying all those knots tends to cut the **** outta my fingers
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You need the hook where the sinker is and the sinker where the hook is. You don't need a swivel for the weight. I put a swivel snap where the weight goes only for the ability to change to different size weights for different conditions, but it doesn't affect how the leader works. The weight you have would only work on a dead calm day, you need spider weights to fish the surf. Lose the J hook and get circle hooks. If your cutting your hands tying 80# mono you must me doing something wrong, 20# braid may cut you, but not 80# mono. Besides that, crimps on light mono will weaken it, plus that single crimp will pull out on the first fish. Knots will work a lot better. The only mono I will crimp is 400# and up. Actually, you need to throw that whole thing in the trash and make a leader the way I show in this thread. While your at it, find where the guy who made the youtube video lives so I can go slap him upside his head for being a complete idiot. :headknock
I do these threads to help people like you who are trying to get into surf fishing, not because I'm trying to make money off of likes or views like youtube. When I post something, it's because it has proven successful time and time again , and it's probably a good idea to pay attention to it.


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## jbradchappell

sharkchum said:


> You need the hook where the sinker is and the sinker where the hook is. You don't need a swivel for the weight. I put a swivel snap where the weight goes only for the ability to change to different size weights for different conditions, but it doesn't affect how the leader works. The weight you have would only work on a dead calm day, you need spider weights to fish the surf. Lose the J hook and get circle hooks. If your cutting your hands tying 80# mono you must me doing something wrong, 20# braid may cut you, but not 80# mono. Besides that, crimps on light mono will weaken it, plus that single crimp will pull out on the first fish. Knots will work a lot better. The only mono I will crimp is 400# and up. Actually, you need to throw that whole thing in the trash and make a leader the way I show in this thread. While your at it, find where the guy who made the youtube video lives so I can go slap him upside his head for being a complete idiot. :headknock
> 
> I do these threads to help people like you who are trying to get into surf fishing, not because I'm trying to make money off of likes or views like youtube. When I post something, it's because it has proven successful time and time again , and it's probably a good idea to pay attention to it.


I appreciate sir. I was just showing mine as an example looking for exactly what you said. It is in the trash.

I guess the cuts are coming from me not paying attention when I tie. The line gets in the knuckle crease and tends to cut after 5-6 knots.

On a side note, I built that leader for a 6' bass rod

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## sharkchum

jbradchappell said:


> I appreciate sir. I was just showing mine as an example looking for exactly what you said. It is in the trash.
> 
> I guess the cuts are coming from me not paying attention when I tie. The line gets in the knuckle crease and tends to cut after 5-6 knots.
> 
> On a side note, I built that leader for a 6' bass rod
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Look up the improved clinch knot, it's easy to tie and easy on the hands.


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## jbradchappell

I appreciate all your help. We are going to try to get to the coast in Sept to try and catch some reds. Just want to be prepared properly. I'm sure I'll have many more questions


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## txbbqman

Ok I finally figured out my old log in. Whew feels good to have it back. 


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## txbbqman

Shark got another silly question for you. I've been shopping for supplies. What is the difference between regular mono and mono leader material? 


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## sharkchum

txbbqman said:


> Shark got another silly question for you. I've been shopping for supplies. What is the difference between regular mono and mono leader material?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Mono leader will come in larger diameter spools and coils so the line comes off straighter.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## txbbqman

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## Lagavulin62

This is incredible info. I really appreciate all the help. 

Well I have rounded up my leader material and wonder if you might critique my crimp. 

This is the 400# mono. My crimp tool is 1/4 inch wide. I am not sure if this is tight enough, or too tight? Or just plain screwed up? I know I would use more crimps but I just want to make sure I have the squeeze down. Oh, I know I got cheap on the crimp tool but I didn't know about the different types of crimp holes. I had to use the oval as it was only hole big enough. Do I need to get the circle( cup to cup) only tool? Tear me up. Lol. Just want to get this right.


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## sharkchum

Lagavulin62 said:


> This is incredible info. I really appreciate all the help.
> 
> Well I have rounded up my leader material and wonder if you might critique my crimp.
> 
> This is the 400# mono. My crimp tool is 1/4 inch wide. I am not sure if this is tight enough, or too tight? Or just plain screwed up? I know I would use more crimps but I just want to make sure I have the squeeze down. Oh, I know I got cheap on the crimp tool but I didn't know about the different types of crimp holes. I had to use the oval as it was only hole big enough. Do I need to get the circle( cup to cup) only tool? Tear me up. Lol. Just want to get this right.


You need to use aluminum crimps on mono, the copper ones are for steel. I also double or triple crimp everything except but the end with the weight.

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## Woodrow1

Just made a few of these leaders with 135# wire, 8/0 gama circles, 5oz weights. 

Lot better than the leaders I had

Much thanks. Now I need to test them out!


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## txbbqman

Sharkchum. Here is my copy of yours minus my back order hooks. Advice or suggestions please

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## fishingmagnet

What is the best bait for reds, drums or shark? Or the best for all?


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## sharkchum

txbbqman said:


> Sharkchum. Here is my copy of yours minus my back order hooks. Advice or suggestions please
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It all looks good, except for the swivel snap to attach the sinker. Those kind of snaps usually fail, plus its a little to small. Try to find some coast lock swivel snaps in a 4/0. They are a lot stronger and rarely ever fail.


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## txbbqman

Yeah. I guess I forgot to order those so I used what I had on hand. I was anxious to make one. Also didn't have any heat shrink. Will electrical tape Work ?


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## sharkchum

fishingmagnet said:


> What is the best bait for reds, drums or shark? Or the best for all?


 Best is a relative term, something is only the best if it works all the time, every time in every condition, and nothing can do that.
When there are mullet in the surf, they work about as good as anything. Almost everything in the surf will eat mullet, and all it takes is a couple casts with a cast net to have enough bait to fish all day. Smaller fish like whiting, croaker, and sandtrout all make good bait, but you usually have to catch them on rod and reel, and that takes time. In the winter, crab and jumbo shrimp will out fish everything else for reds and drum, but they usually have to be bought, and that gets expensive.


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## sharkchum

txbbqman said:


> Yeah. I guess I forgot to order those so I used what I had on hand. I was anxious to make one. Also didn't have any heat shrink. Will electrical tape Work ?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The heat shrink isn't really necessary. I do it because it gives the leader a clean finished look, and it cuts down on some of the exposed metal. I usually make leaders up at the house, and it doesn't take much time to add heat shrink, but if I'm making them on the beach I never put heat shrink. Electric tape will probably come off after a few minuets in the water, but they do make a liquid tape you paint on, but I don't use it.


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## eliris

Shark, is there any reason why you don't use the hook along the main swivel in the 3-way swivel (with red heat shrink on your initial post)? I would think that the load of a fish pulling would be taken better that way than on the perpendicular end on the 3-way (black heat shrink on the original post).
Just wondering...









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## sharkchum

eliris said:


> Shark, is there any reason why you don't use the hook along the main swivel in the 3-way swivel (with red heat shrink on your initial post)? I would think that the load of a fish pulling would be taken better that way than on the perpendicular end on the 3-way (black heat shrink on the original post).
> Just wondering...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


 I rig the hook section perpendicular to the rest of the leader to prevent tangles while the line is out. Once the fish is on, the leader has enough play in it to keep everything in line. I'm also using 30# line most of the time and you can't generate enough force to cause failure in the 250#+ 3-way swivel. If you use the standard 3-way swivels it's irrelevant, because the load is distributed equally around the circumference, so it doesn't matter which section of leader goes where.


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## Lagavulin62

I think I went through all 13 pages, didn't see anything about a shock leader. 
I am guessing 60-80 lb mono? I have both.


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## fishingmagnet

Sharkchum,

I have one question regards to color of the wire leader. Is the color important in not scaring the fish? I think so, but which is the best color to use that would not scare most of the fish? I saw you use color Bright. But it is hard to find this color in store that I have visited. Like they don't sell it at Academy and FTU, or online like Amazon or Catchalltackle. I think you brought it Marburger store. I am wondering if this is the only place that sells it.


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## sharkchum

fishingmagnet said:


> Sharkchum,
> 
> I have one question regards to color of the wire leader. Is the color important in not scaring the fish? I think so, but which is the best color to use that would not scare most of the fish? I saw you use color Bright. But it is hard to find this color in store that I have visited. Like they don't sell it at Academy and FTU, or online like Amazon or Catchalltackle. I think you brought it Marburger store. I am wondering if this is the only place that sells it.


No, color makes no difference at all. The only important part is that the cable is coated. Most cable has black coating, but I have used black, clear, brown, and red and it makes no difference at all. I'm not picky about brands or colors, I get whatever I can find.

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## GKrane

Catchalltackle has a nice new sand colored cable that I have been using that seems to work great. I dont know if it makes a difference but it cant hurt anything!


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## eliris

Hmmm... Must be coated you say? Nylon/plastic coated, or can it be for example phosphate or zinc coated?

How about this one? This is the one i bought but doesnt seem to be coated...

American Fishing Wire 49-Strand Cable Bare 7x7 Stainless Steel Leader Wire, Camo Brown Color, 175 Pound Test, 30-Feet https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0009V0TPQ/ref=cm_sw_r_wa_apa_h8TpBbXHFAZ7G

Anywho, what is the scientific for it having to be coated? That is, if there is one, or is it perhaps a conclusion of trial and error?

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## sharkchum

eliris said:


> Hmmm... Must be coated you say? Nylon/plastic coated, or can it be for example phosphate or zinc coated?
> 
> How about this one? This is the one i bought but doesnt seem to be coated...
> 
> American Fishing Wire 49-Strand Cable Bare 7x7 Stainless Steel Leader Wire, Camo Brown Color, 175 Pound Test, 30-Feet https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0009V0TPQ/ref=cm_sw_r_wa_apa_h8TpBbXHFAZ7G
> 
> Anywho, what is the scientific for it having to be coated? That is, if there is one, or is it perhaps a conclusion of trial and error?
> 
> Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


Nylon or plastic coated. Any time you put metal in salt water it puts off a electrical current. When the metal is coated with something, it helps to block these currents. Sharks have thousands of tiny receptors on their nose that can pick up these currents, they are called Ampullae of Lorenzini, Google it. When they pick up the electrical currents they get spooked. That's why I only use coated cable and my bigger hooks are coated with dip-it or wrapped in electrical tape.

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## eliris

Thanks for the explanation. Thats what i thought...

I wish you had explained this before i bought the bare wire. 

I guess this could have been the reason why i didnt get a single bite after i switched from mono leader to bare wire leader. Thats how you learn (and dont forget)!

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## sharkchum

eliris said:


> Thanks for the explanation. Thats what i thought...
> 
> I wish you had explained this before i bought the bare wire.
> 
> I guess this could have been the reason why i didnt get a single bite the next day when i switched to wire leader. Thats how you learn (and dont forget)!
> 
> Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


Also keep in mind that almost all fish have a lateral line running down their body. This lateral line can pick up electrical currents also, it's just not as sensitive as the sharks censors. This is why I prefer using mono leaders over steel, but if your after shark's, you really need steel leader, at least for the section the hook is on.

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## [email protected]_49

Sharkchum you going to be down on the beach by the cedars? Imma head down with my girlfriend and son in the am. Silver Tundra 4x4 w/ TXBOWHUNTER sticker on back and Redtails sticker. What will you be in?
- Scott

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## AFORWW

sharkchum said:


> Nylon or plastic coated. Any time you put metal in salt water it puts off a electrical current. When the metal is coated with something, it helps to block these currents. Sharks have thousands of tiny receptors on their nose that can pick up these currents, they are called Ampullae of Lorenzini, Google it. When they pick up the electrical currents they get spooked. That's why I only use coated cable and my bigger hooks are coated with dip-it or wrapped in electrical tape.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Although I don't doubt there's some truth to it, every shark I've caught in my short time targeting them, has been caught on AFW #19 or #9. I've been saying I'll start buying coated once I go through this stuff to see if it improves my numbers but I'm happy for the moment.

I do however wrap my hooks with electrical tape from just behind the barb to about three inches past my haywire.

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## eliris

Shark? What is this "dip-it" you talk about?

Ia it this stuff?

https://m.lowes.com/pd/Plasti-Dip-1...YIRunfEbIKZTYtj5q0q1TWYj0gEN7VZxoC7bwQAvD_BwE

I'm thinking to "dip" the cables i have instead of trashing them.

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## sharkchum

eliris said:


> Shark? What is this "dip-it" you talk about?
> 
> Ia it this stuff?
> 
> https://m.lowes.com/pd/Plasti-Dip-1...YIRunfEbIKZTYtj5q0q1TWYj0gEN7VZxoC7bwQAvD_BwE
> 
> I'm thinking to "dip" the cables i have instead of trashing them.
> 
> Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


That's it. I don't know if it will work on the cable or not.

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## Sgrem

Can also simply wrap w electrical tape. I use heavy mono leader for sharks and wrap my 16/0 circle hook with electrical tape.


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## 348473

Also keeps down on that clank from their teeth which may be enough for.them to keep chewing if using big baits. I've caught on coated non coated but sure coated gives that extra edge.

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## eliris

Has anybody tried to coat the hooks or even bare cable with appropriate size of heat shrink tube? I am thinking it should work pretty good at least on the hooks. Thoughts?

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## AFORWW

eliris said:


> Has anybody tried to coat the hooks or even bare cable with appropriate size of heat shrink tube? I am thinking it should work pretty good at least on the hooks. Thoughts?
> 
> Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


I'd think HS tube would be an issue with the curve of a circle hook. I do plan on buying some plasti-dip and dipping the hooks though.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk


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## sharkchum

eliris said:


> Has anybody tried to coat the hooks or even bare cable with appropriate size of heat shrink tube? I am thinking it should work pretty good at least on the hooks. Thoughts?
> 
> Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


Yes, heat shrink works, it just gets expensive. It's also hard to get on circle hooks.

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## eliris

I bought 15 ft of HS tube for under $1.00 on eBay. Look for example for item 282415889419.

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## rock87

Just read this. I am curious about you saying 2 & 3 oz. spider eights are worthless. I fish in the 1st & 2nd gut & I use 2 & 3 oz. weights for the most part. Just wanting to know your reasoning behind this.


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## jimj100

they're fine in no current, and no weed. But you get any kind of water movement, and 2-3 will not hold. If they catch a tiny bit of sargassum or hyacinth or anything, they will wash in. also, casting a half a crab or a mullet head for distance (when needed), u need more weight to counter act their relative light weight and large surface area that catches a lot of wind resistance.


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## sharkchum

jimj100 said:


> they're fine in no current, and no weed. But you get any kind of water movement, and 2-3 will not hold. If they catch a tiny bit of sargassum or hyacinth or anything, they will wash in. also, casting a half a crab or a mullet head for distance (when needed), u need more weight to counter act their relative light weight and large surface area that catches a lot of wind resistance.


^^^^What he said^^^^


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## rock87

*spider wights.*

I thought maybe it was that you need more weight to set a circle hook. I am losing some fish. They will hit the bait and I will feel them but when I pull the weight out I lose them.


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## sharkchum

rock87 said:


> I thought maybe it was that you need more weight to set a circle hook. I am losing some fish. They will hit the bait and I will feel them but when I pull the weight out I lose them.


 Nothing is necessary to set a circle hook, they will set their self when the fish swims off. If your having to pull the weight out your self, they must be very small fish. Even a small slot red can pull a 8oz spider weight out of the sand when they hit.


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## jimj100

rock87 said:


> I thought maybe it was that you need more weight to set a circle hook. I am losing some fish. They will hit the bait and I will feel them but when I pull the weight out I lose them.


what bait? drum need some time on crab. and sharks need to RUN for way longer than you think if u r using cut bait, but sharks that drop the bait when you tighten the drag, WILL COME BACK and get it again a lot of the time if your half mullet or croaker is still on the hook. u might try a little more drag pressure in the rod holder if u keep it super light.

If it's a good fish, it will get that weight out of the sand pretty quick and run. Let em do that. also make sure you have a lot of exposure on your circle hook. especialy on cut bait (less needed on cracked crab, i've seen).


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## rock87

Thanks. I use live mullet but I may not be exposing the hook enough.


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