# This is why Fuel System Service is SO SO Important!



## EvansMarine (Jun 7, 2010)

Have a new customer that recently bought a new to him 2013 boat. This was a Guide Boat with Mercury 225 ProXs. The motor had just undergone a 500 hr service when he purchased it. Customer brought in the boat so we could check a engine code for a alarm he was getting. When we plugged in the motor to our software we were able to get code for injector fault and it was intermittent. This immediately points to fuel system and injector sticking and being gummed up. Informed the customer of the issue and told him we need to look in the VST, and Injector screens and see whats going on? Below is what we found.









You must realize this is not a boat just sitting around with stale fuel! It's 3 years old with 500 hrs on it.

I would have figured that at 500 hrs the entire fuel system would have been cleaned? Also it appears that someone has been over dosing a green know stabilizer? due to the blue greenish jelly in the bottom of VST tank. Overdosing is bad as well!

We recommend at every 200 hrs or 2 years of service the fuel system in it's entirety is properly cleaned and serviced. Yes it's more money on a service, but eventually it will catch up and cost more.

Just felt I should share this.

Bryan


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## gotmuddy (Dec 19, 2013)

I have seen that jelly plenty of times in carburetors that sit. Weird to see it in a boat used regularly. I wonder how much it was used in the last month or two.


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## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

gotmuddy said:


> I have seen that jelly plenty of times in carburetors that sit. Weird to see it in a boat used regularly. I wonder how much it was used in the last month or two.


X2 ethanol goo

water got into that fuel system


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## Black Dog (May 19, 2006)

How much is a fuel system service? I 'm having a very very intermittent issue and plan to change filters/plugs and run some quickkleen through it. I'm lucky to get out once a month these days. I run it on a hose about every 2 weeks but that doesn't really get the RPM's up.


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## BATWING (May 9, 2008)

WOW! Lots of runnin with bad/dirty fuel. Just think how good it gonna run once you get all that crud out. 

Thats a good PSA right there.


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## EvansMarine (Jun 7, 2010)

Really depends on motor. Like ProXS V6 with fuel rails, tracker valve, pressure regulators, Air injectors require new packing's once removed, We have to send out Air Injectors as our injector machine isn't capable of pulsing the Air Injectors, Fuel injector cleaning with new seals, and VST as added to a Typical 200hr service is around $500.00, by it's self is around $900.00

HPDI Yamaha's are the most expensive. It requires everything above less Air Injectors, but now you have a High Pressure Fuel Pump (1000PSI Plus) that has to be disassembled and Screens cleaned or replaced, Injectors for these require very expensive seals and packing, as well the system has a strainer filter between VST and High Pressure pump that is $130.00 by it's self. It runs as add on to service around $650.00 but as a standard around $1100.00.

A typical four stroke V6 will add about 250 to a standard 100 or 200hr service, Some models require removal of intake with metal gaskets on block that must be replaced, and few filters on some models bring up the price. But average on large motor about $450 for entire fuel system as a standard.

If you send me your moto info, I could get you an exact quote.

Bryan


Black Dog said:


> How much is a fuel system service? I 'm having a very very intermittent issue and plan to change filters/plugs and run some quickkleen through it. I'm lucky to get out once a month these days. I run it on a hose about every 2 weeks but that doesn't really get the RPM's up.


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## expressfish (Jun 8, 2004)

looks like the liner in the fuel hose started breaking down


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## EvansMarine (Jun 7, 2010)

We flushed lines and all were good, took 2 cycles of injection cleaning to get the faulty injector UN-gummed. now she purrs and runs great.


expressfish said:


> looks like the liner in the fuel hose started breaking down


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## huntfish2011 (Jun 16, 2011)

What would you recommend as the best fuel treatment product? I have used GTX gas treatment, Marine Sta-bil, and Yamalube. I run the boat once a month in the winter (Nov. - Feb.) and about 3 times per month the rest of the year.


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## EvansMarine (Jun 7, 2010)

huntfish2011 said:


> What would you recommend as the best fuel treatment product? I have used GTX gas treatment, Marine Sta-bil, and Yamalube. I run the boat once a month in the winter (Nov. - Feb.) and about 3 times per month the rest of the year.


Man honestly it's hard to say. I've had great luck with startron and liquid performance. Best is running and getting good quality fuel. I prefer chevron Techron fuel, and I typically only treat with stabilizer if I know it's going to be more than a month I'm not going to run. If it sits more than 2 months, my fuel gets drained before it ever try's to be started. I don't use any otherwise. I also keep tank topped off to reduce volume for condensation with ethanol fuel. It just pulls the moisture in when it sits to long. Short story is these fuels are killing us especially boaters with open vented fuel systems. What I see is you can maintain and push the process a little further before issues occur or ever feel the effects by servicing fuel system on a schedule. It also saves on time sitting in the shop when boat season comes back around and so forth.


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## Black Dog (May 19, 2006)

I've always kept my tank full, but the stupid thing holds 65 gallons and I only burn about 10 a trip. Wouldn't it be better to keep it near empty and add fresh every time I go out? I figure I can put 25 gallons in it, fish all day, then pump the rest into my truck at the end of the day. I guess the question is "how empty can I get it doing this"?

PM set BTW.


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## gotmuddy (Dec 19, 2013)

I run non ethanol exclusively in my boat, very easy to find here in AR.


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## EvansMarine (Jun 7, 2010)

Empty or full, but I worry about drying out residue in tank personally, but no science here lol


Black Dog said:


> I've always kept my tank full, but the stupid thing holds 65 gallons and I only burn about 10 a trip. Wouldn't it be better to keep it near empty and add fresh every time I go out? I figure I can put 25 gallons in it, fish all day, then pump the rest into my truck at the end of the day. I guess the question is "how empty can I get it doing this"?
> 
> PM set BTW.


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## Stuart (May 21, 2004)

I don't buy into the whole keep your tank full logic. It probably gets more people in trouble with old gas than anything else. 

I've said it a gazillion times. Use your boat. (yes, I understand this motor was used a lot) 

If your motor is not premix and you think your gas has been in the boat long enough, get a transfer pump and pump the gas into your car, then go get new gas in boat. Repeat as necessary.

Ethanol is stupid on all levels, I can't think of one good thing about it. BUT boat mechanics have been tearing carbs apart and dealing with gunk decades before ethanol hit the scene. If motors would have had injectors back in the day, they would have been taking them out and cleaning them too.

Edited to add - some motors are obviously more sensitive to fuel. I ran my first etec for 9 years without a hiccup and it never got anything but ethanol.


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## mas360 (Nov 21, 2006)

Two boat mechanics told me that I SHOULD NEVER RUN FUEL INJECTOR MOTOR UNTIL IT IS EMPTY, that would kill the high pressure pump. 

My next door neighbor installed a cut off valve and ran his motor dry before putting it away for winter when he first got his brand new Suzuki. When he took it out in Spring his boat quit a few miles from the launch. He took it back to dealer. When they saw the cut-off valve, the first question they asked him was "did you run the motor until motor quit before putting it away for winter?". He said yes. That cost him 1.2K to fix the problem. Warranty was voided.

I now disconnect the main tank and use a 12 gal external tank to feed the 115hp Mercury motor. I put the boat in storage with the external tank full and the cap totally closed. The Ethanol problem disappears with this approach. It's been running great after sitting in storage through the winter for the past three years. I usually used up 12 gal each time I went out, so, it got new fuel on every trip.


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## Byrdmen (May 15, 2013)

mas360 said:


> .......
> 
> I now disconnect the main tank and use a 12 gal external tank to feed the 115hp Mercury motor. I put the boat in storage with the external tank full and the cap totally closed. The Ethanol problem disappears with this approach. It's been running great after sitting in storage through the winter for the past three years. I usually used up 12 gal each time I went out, so, it got new fuel on every trip.


My boat has a Yamaha F115 and a 30 gallon tank. Thinking very seriously about swapping in a 12-15 gallon tank for the same reasons.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## billgran (Aug 23, 2016)

We used to call ethanol fuel problems "The government's stimulus package for marine mechanics." 

Fixing those fuel problems helped a lot of dealers and independent repair shops stay open during the lean years of the recession we had (or still have).


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## salty_waders (Feb 13, 2006)

I use an external fuel filter/water separator (the spin-on type) in line on my Yamaha. Will that help with this particular problem? Ive always been told it will and I figure it cant hurt. PS - the preventative tips are ALWAYS welcome and useful. Thanks!!


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## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

salty_waders said:


> I use an external fuel filter/water separator (the spin-on type) in line on my Yamaha. Will that help with this particular problem? Ive always been told it will and I figure it cant hurt. PS - the preventative tips are ALWAYS welcome and useful. Thanks!!


Yes and No.

If there is to much of the ethanol separated out in your main fuel tank then the filter can get overwhelmed and the goo will get by. This usually happens when water has gotten into the fuel tank in large amounts or boat has set for an extended time period with E-fuel in the tank.

Or if the fuel sits in the VST tank and rails then it can separate there already past the filter and clog the injectors and the little screens at injectors. The spin on filters do not stop fuel that is right at the point of separating. If you get fuel that is about to separate to the filter it will pass just like normal fuel and if it sits in the fuel system it will separate out. If you have ever had to clean a VST tank, this is usually how the **** gets into it.

The spin on filter should catch the normal stuff, and if you use the boat often, change filters often, and do not have water getting into your fuel from an outside source then it should be enough.

Best to dump the filter at each change and see what the fuel looks like in the filter. If there is a lot of **** and goo then you are working toward a problem. I use clear bowel system on my filters and try to keep a good check on them. Even with me burning 1000s of gallons a year thru my boat there still is some stuff the filter catches.


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## Im Headed South (Jun 28, 2006)

Great thread :cheers:


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## cottonpicker (Jan 25, 2010)

I have a 500 gal gasoline storage tank on my farm for lawnmowers, 4wheelers, weed eaters etc. I normally order 300 gallons, so it is never full. It will take me 6 months for me to go thru the 300 gallons. One thing I do is add Lucos Fuel treatment to it prior to filling. The label calls for 1 gallon / 400 gallons of gas (or diesel). I add it at the rate of 1 gallon / 300 gallons. To this day i never have had a fuel problem with any of my small engines. The tank would have to absorb just as much moisture if not more than a boat's tank because it sits out in the elements with only a roof to protect from direct sunlight over it. Might be worth looking into it. It can be purchased at Walmart as well as other places and comes in multiple sized bottles.


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## Black Dog (May 19, 2006)

I suspect the issue has more to do newer marine motors are basically like race car engines. Light weight and highly tuned for maximum performance. Running 5000+ RPMs with high engine compression ratios isn't very forgiving when it comes to bad fuel.


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## Stuart (May 21, 2004)

Black Dog said:


> I suspect the issue has more to do newer marine motors are basically like race car engines. Light weight and highly tuned for maximum performance. Running 5000+ RPMs with high engine compression ratios isn't very forgiving when it comes to bad fuel.


I don't know. I believe Honda outboards used to share some parts with engines from their cars. I would suspect most bigger four stroke motors operate on the same technology that runs cars up and down the road.


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## mas360 (Nov 21, 2006)

What I don't understand about this fuel problem is I had a 1998 Honda Civic, which was put in storage for three years with a half full tank. When I took it out of storage I had to put in a new battery. It cranked up on the first try and been running, 120K additional miles, without a hiccup since then. Why the Ethanol fueld did do the same detrimental number on car engine but yet it kills outboard motors?


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## mas360 (Nov 21, 2006)

salty_waders said:


> I use an external fuel filter/water separator (the spin-on type) in line on my Yamaha. Will that help with this particular problem? Ive always been told it will and I figure it cant hurt. PS - the preventative tips are ALWAYS welcome and useful. Thanks!!


Back when I still used the main fuel tank, I had the spin on filter with the clear bowl at the bottom, which cost $20 to replace. I replaced filter once a year and did not see any water in that bowl but yet my injectors were shot every year and had to be taken in for ultrasonic cleaning and bench flow.

Now, I use the external 12 gal fuel tank (red plastic) with an inline filter, which costs $4. It runs nicely for the past three years without having to bench flow the injectors every Spring. I added Stabil into the fuel before putting the boat away for winter in both cases.

The big difference is the main fuel tank being open to air while the external tank is fully closed. Secondly, the fuel line between the external tank and the motor is replaced every couple of years while it is next to impossible to replace the fuel line under the deck in the case of the internal fuel tank. The ethanol eats away fuel line and I could see tiny fleck of black material caught in the filter.


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## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

mas360 said:


> What I don't understand about this fuel problem is I had a 1998 Honda Civic, which was put in storage for three years with a half full tank. When I took it out of storage I had to put in a new battery. It cranked up on the first try and been running, 120K additional miles, without a hiccup since then. Why the Ethanol fueld did do the same detrimental number on car engine but yet it kills outboard motors?


The fuel tank on a boat has a vent to open air, a car does not.

Fresh air has an open path to the fuel in your boat 365 days a year, 24hours a day. If your boat is kept outside and it is foggy, humid wet air, then it it is same inside your boat's fuel tank. This is not the same for a car.


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## mas360 (Nov 21, 2006)

Hey Jolly, is there any way to plug that vent to fix that problem?


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## EvansMarine (Jun 7, 2010)

I'm loving how everyone is getting involved, we need good technical discussions on here. All great insights


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## Skyjunky (Jun 11, 2007)

Good post.


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## Jumanji (Jan 31, 2013)

I have a 2017 model JH Outlaw. The tank has the new EPA vent system, that is supposed to prevent fumes from escaping. Wouldn't that also prevent moist air from coming into the tank as well? Or at least limit it?

The Outlaw has a large canister filter in-line to the Yamaha 250. I siphoned out the ten gallons of ethanol gas that the dealer left me with, and replaced with ethanol free gas. (Available at Rudy's, Corpus Christi.) That is all I have run since about 0.4 hours on the motor. (That said, it only has 10 hours on it now.) I use Yamaha Ring Free and Mercury Quickstore 3 fuel stabilizer. 

Is there anything else I should be doing?

Just FYI, my sailboat has twin Yamaha 9.9 outboards. Used to run regular gasoline with ethanol in it, until we took it on a long trip (to Bahamas). Louisiana, Florida and Bahamas all had ethanol free gas, and what I found was all of my carb issues disappeared when I ran this gasoline. So I won't go back to ethanol gas if I can avoid it. I also have canister filters on each of these engines, with a glass at the bottom to drain water. That said, I have seen very little water in gasoline over the past ten years. Even in Bahamas.


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## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

mas360 said:


> Hey Jolly, is there any way to plug that vent to fix that problem?


gasoline expands and contracts due to temp/humidity. Plugging the vent could cause problems if the gasoline expanded or contacted to much and put to much pressure on your tank. We all have seen the plastic gas cans that are blown up like a balloons, or sucked in like a crushed beer can from gasoline in them not being vented. Gasoline does the same exact thing inside you boats fuel tank. Many tanks are busted due to blocked vents, dirt daubers nest, or kink in the vent line causes the tank to expand or contract to much and bust a seem, or causes pin holes. It does not take much pressure difference to cause problems with a boats fuel tank. Most are thin to start with, add some age and a pound or two pressure difference from the outside air can cause problems.

Your boats fuel tank breathes like a lung, also air pressure and nature of water vapor to want to balance out tends to push air in and out of the tank. Tanks that are full of gasoline "breathe" less due to the fact there is less room for the air inside the tank.

Some newer boats tanks have what is considered a controlled vent. It is designed to stop gasoline vapors from getting into the atmosphere. The ones I have seen are filters, they are being pushed by the EPA, they do have the added benefit of somewhat controlling the amount of water vapor that is introduced into the tank. But the system is not self pressurized like Autos, still uses the outside air pressure. when the outside air pressure is the same as the air inside the tank any change air pressure or density will still move air in and out, plus the nature of gasoline to expand and contract moves air.

If you can keep your boat inside, out of the sun that is best. If not, then try to use it often, keep tank full and watch the filters. Gasoline stabilizers do nothing to stop water from combining with ethanol. Gas stabilizers slow the oxidation and evaporation of the fuel, no stabilizer will stop water from getting into the fuel.

The reason it is more of a problem now for boats compared to the past was the water use to not mix with the fuel. Water separators could do there job and get the water out. With E-fuels water mixes with the fuel and once it does water separators can not get the water out of the fuel until it separates out from the fuel. By that point it might be to late and most often have clogged injectors, screen, VST problems, etc... The problem of water in boats fuel tanks is not new, what is new is the ethanol. Because water and ethanol are attracted to each other and they mix so easy, this allows water to get further into the fuel system more easy.


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## Txredfish (Oct 27, 2010)

I have a 2006 70 HP 2 cycle Yamaha. I use at least once a week or more for 10 years.
I have 2 portable plastic gas tanks, 6 gal each. I might use a tank (6 gal each trip). 
I switch usage to other tank after each trip and fill up tanks.
I don't have a cartridge- separator type gas filter. Only gas filter is small filter on side of engine. I look at this filter after each trip while checking oil tank. I use 1 oz of Startron each tank when filling tanks. No fuel problems in 10 years using ethonal gas.


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## mas360 (Nov 21, 2006)

Yup, my red plastic external fuel tank did expand like a balloon and then contracted. So far it holds up the past three years and I figure buying a new red plastic tank every five years is still a whole lot less expensive and hassle than cleaning the fuel injectors. 

Why closed fuel tanks can be implemented in car but yet cannot be done in boats? Not everyone can have the time and opportunity to run their boat once a week. I bet those who do are either fishing guides or having waterfront property with their boats in the water. For those of us with boats at home or in storage I doubt it is used once a week year round.

Come to think of it, the weedeater has a closed fuel tank but yet it still succumbs to E-fuel. Same with the lawn mower.


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## Muddskipper (Dec 29, 2004)

I have seen more issues with fuel treatments as the years go on.....

I am really surprised some of the companies haven't had a large suit against them....

Fresh fuel is the best treatment...PERIOD.....

We have not kept our tanks full but simply run it once a month with fresh fuel added each time......

Good micron fuel filter changed each year along with other maintence 

Keep it simple......


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## whitepv (Sep 26, 2006)

Yet another reason to finally rid Obama and his stupid ethanol policy....


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## RedXCross (Aug 7, 2005)

The new Charcoal EPA BS does little but helps some moisture,, IMO. I can tell you one thing it will do is cause a butt ton of problems filling your tank quickly. or at all in some cases.Especially when you have a bigger tank.



Jolly Roger said:


> Some newer boats tanks have what is considered a controlled vent. It is designed to stop gasoline vapors from getting into the atmosphere. The ones I have seen are filters, they are being pushed by the EPA, they do have the added benefit of somewhat controlling the amount of water vapor that is introduced into the tank. But the system is not self pressurized like Autos, still uses the outside air pressure. when the outside air pressure is the same as the air inside the tank any change air pressure or density will still move air in and out, plus the nature of gasoline to expand and contract moves air.
> 
> If you can keep your boat inside, out of the sun that is best. If not, then try to use it often, keep tank full and watch the filters. Gasoline stabilizers do nothing to stop water from combining with ethanol. Gas stabilizers slow the oxidation and evaporation of the fuel, no stabilizer will stop water from getting into the fuel.
> 
> .


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## EvansMarine (Jun 7, 2010)

Definitely a Pain in the Butt!


RedXCross said:


> The new Charcoal EPA BS does little but helps some moisture,, IMO. I can tell you one thing it will do is cause a butt ton of problems filling your tank quickly. or at all in some cases.Especially when you have a bigger tank.


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## EvansMarine (Jun 7, 2010)

Hahahaha


Randy & Beautiful Girl said:


> Yet another reason to finally rid Obama and his stupid ethanol policy....


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## Ox Eye (Dec 17, 2007)

Five months ago my 50 HP Yamaha 2stroke developed a pecular problem. From one trip to the next, or even during a day's outing, it will alternate between different max RPMs. 45000 has been the max RPM from day one. Sometimes it's 30000 and will not quite get on plane, and it varies between that and the the standard max of 45000. Any opinions?

Might it be a fuel filter with some kind of particles floating around and causing varied restrictions that I can replace ... or might it be the fuel pump that will require a Pro? 

It has been suggested, by a helpful neighbor, that the throttle cable is loose, but I don't see how that would stand to reason ... and nothing I can get to isn't tight. So, whadyathink?


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## Txredfish (Oct 27, 2010)

OX EYE,
Last summer I had a problem with my Yamaha 70 HP. The RPM would change just like yours. I had 2 tanks. So I changed to the other one and it stopped. So I changed the brass gas fitting on top of problem tank. Problem solved. Been running fine ever since. The needle on the inside of the brass gas fitting was sticking.


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## Ox Eye (Dec 17, 2007)

Txredfish said:


> OX EYE,
> Last summer I had a problem with my Yamaha 70 HP. The RPM would change just like yours. I had 2 tanks. So I changed to the other one and it stopped. So I changed the brass gas fitting on top of problem tank. Problem solved. Been running fine ever since. The needle on the inside of the brass gas fitting was sticking.


Well, dayum, I run on a portable tank, too. Geez, it would be nice for it to be so simple. Next time out, I will run my spare tank. If it works, ya know, I'll be huntin' you down to hug your neck.


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## EvansMarine (Jun 7, 2010)

I would check fuel pressures at idle, and under a load to see if you have proper fuel pump pressures around 3-5PSI. Also if you can put in a piece of clear tubing in line while testing you can see if you are getting air bubbles which is a sign of sucking air from somewhere. These motors are also prone to the quick connect fuel supply inlet at motor o-ring seals go bad and allow air to suck in, as well as the fuel tank line hook up fitting. We generally bypass them after initial fuel pressure test with it inline, then check after bypass to insure no issue at these fittings. Also like TxRedfish says, could be tank pick up as well. If everything checks out, start looking at electrical items, like Stator Ohms, and Trigger Ohms. The Throttle Cable shouldn't effect the RPM's being Sporadic as you describe. Good Luck and let me know if you need assistance testing.

Bryan,


Ox Eye said:


> Five months ago my 50 HP Yamaha 2stroke developed a pecular problem. From one trip to the next, or even during a day's outing, it will alternate between different max RPMs. 45000 has been the max RPM from day one. Sometimes it's 30000 and will not quite get on plane, and it varies between that and the the standard max of 45000. Any opinions?
> 
> Might it be a fuel filter with some kind of particles floating around and causing varied restrictions that I can replace ... or might it be the fuel pump that will require a Pro?
> 
> It has been suggested, by a helpful neighbor, that the throttle cable is loose, but I don't see how that would stand to reason ... and nothing I can get to isn't tight. So, whadyathink?


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## Ox Eye (Dec 17, 2007)

EvansMarine said:


> I would check fuel pressures at idle, and under a load to see if you have proper fuel pump pressures around 3-5PSI. Also if you can put in a piece of clear tubing in line while testing you can see if you are getting air bubbles which is a sign of sucking air from somewhere. These motors are also prone to the quick connect fuel supply inlet at motor o-ring seals go bad and allow air to suck in, as well as the fuel tank line hook up fitting. We generally bypass them after initial fuel pressure test with it inline, then check after bypass to insure no issue at these fittings. Also like TxRedfish says, could be tank pick up as well. If everything checks out, start looking at electrical items, like Stator Ohms, and Trigger Ohms. The Throttle Cable shouldn't effect the RPM's being Sporadic as you describe. Good Luck and let me know if you need assistance testing.
> 
> Bryan,


Bryan, you reconfirm my belief in the reality that nothing (despite TxRedfish's suggested solution) is ever "that simple". I think it best to take the problem to a professional. Wish it could be you, but Bacliff is a bit too far to go. Thanks for the leads!


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## EvansMarine (Jun 7, 2010)

No problem, check with Ty (Paragod) he can help you out.


Ox Eye said:


> Bryan, you reconfirm my belief in the reality that nothing (despite TxRedfish's suggested solution) is ever "that simple". I think it best to take the problem to a professional. Wish it could be you, but Bacliff is a bit too far to go. Thanks for the leads!


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## Ox Eye (Dec 17, 2007)

EvansMarine said:


> No problem, check with Ty (Paragod) he can help you out.


Sorry, Bryan, still too far. I've got a history with the Authorized Yamaha shop on 45. Jump on the Tollway and I'm there in under 30 minutes. But, I do appreciate your efforts. You are a credit to your profession. And, for that, some cabbage coming your way.


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## El gato 24 (Feb 25, 2016)

EvansMarine said:


> Hahahaha


I hate Obama, but the ethanol was already in our gas during the Bush years . We've got lobbyists and rich corn farmers in the Midwest to thank for that .


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## whitepv (Sep 26, 2006)

El gato 24 said:


> I hate Obama, but the ethanol was already in our gas during the Bush years . We've got lobbyists and rich corn farmers in the Midwest to thank for that .


When oil got to $100/drum, a few cried, moaned and ditched about how expensive a gallon of gas was. Ethanol is a BS liberal fix to silence a few crybabies and it causes more harm than good. It may have started under Bush, but not every gas pump in America was mandated to have ethanol in it like it has been under Obama.

Did not want to hijack a good thread and turn it into a political rant, but it is so true that the few who complain and vote for the idiot that listens to them have the power to change the quality of life that we once enjoyed.

Ethanol and the forced use of it is still stupid, no matter which political idiot supported or supports it.


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## Ox Eye (Dec 17, 2007)

What he said!


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## EvansMarine (Jun 7, 2010)

100% agree


Randy & Beautiful Girl said:


> When oil got to $100/drum, a few cried, moaned and ditched about how expensive a gallon of gas was. Ethanol is a BS liberal fix to silence a few crybabies and it causes more harm than good. It may have started under Bush, but not every gas pump in America was mandated to have ethanol in it like it has been under Obama.
> 
> Did not want to hijack a good thread and turn it into a political rant, but it is so true that the few who complain and vote for the idiot that listens to them have the power to change the quality of life that we once enjoyed.
> 
> Ethanol and the forced use of it is still stupid, no matter which political idiot supported or supports it.


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## bobo33 (Aug 22, 2011)

For anyone that cares the Buccees in Waller on 290 has "Premium Unleaded" that is Ethanol free.

And of course it comes at a "Premium Cost".


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## EvansMarine (Jun 7, 2010)

bobo33 said:


> For anyone that cares the Buccees in Waller on 290 has "Premium Unleaded" that is Ethanol free.
> 
> And of course it comes at a "Premium Cost".


Thanks for the heads up


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## captain sandbar (Dec 9, 2011)

RedXCross said:


> The new Charcoal EPA BS does little but helps some moisture,, IMO. I can tell you one thing it will do is cause a butt ton of problems filling your tank quickly. or at all in some cases.Especially when you have a bigger tank.


I started a thread on a different post about this... I have a new Majek with a closed/charcoal vented Attwood system, and every time I go to the pump no matter how much gas is in my tank, it will only accept 16 gallons before the pressure shuts it off, and until the charcoal filter vents the excess pressure, no pumping more gas. That said, I do not have the problem when I use the no-spill 5 gallon tanks to fill up the boat. Definitely a major pain, but at least I can control the fuel I put in, as I sometimes wonder what comes out of those marina based pumps. But these new closed vents systems are required by law now, so if you get a new boat that has a relatively flat gas tank (mine is 72 gallons) be prepared for some headaches at the pumps.


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## rat race (Aug 10, 2006)

Be cautious about non-ethanol fuels. Just because they don't have ethanol does not mean they are alcohol free. Most have butanol which is actually worse that ethanol. It is more hygroscopic.


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## rat race (Aug 10, 2006)

rat race said:


> Be cautious about non-ethanol fuels. Just because they don't have ethanol does not mean they are alcohol free. Most have butanol which is actually worse that ethanol. It is more hygroscopic.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sorry had it backwards. Butanol is less hygroscopic, and produces more energy than ethanol. Might not be too bad after all. We shall see.

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## BigJake (Jul 1, 2004)

Been using star brite star tron enzyme treatment for years. Every time I fill up, put about half of the bottle that treats 128 gallons, no matter how much fuel I put in. Fuel tank is 65 gallons. Come football/hunting season my boat usually sits 4-5 months as well.


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## redexpress (Apr 5, 2010)

From Yamaha...warning about dumping the fuel/water separator and putting it back in service:
http://maintenance.yamahaoutboards.com/fuel-fuel-system/


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## jigfisher (Jun 15, 2011)

FYI: eoh free also at Sabine Pass, on the water. "Sabine Pass Port Authority" and Lee Oil in Alvin.


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## EvansMarine (Jun 7, 2010)

Just wanted to bring this thread back up for those that are experiencing issues


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## Fair Oaks Ag (Jan 18, 2016)

Thanks for bumping this thread. Very informative. Anyone know of ethanol free fuel around Rockport? Also can’t decide if keeping the tank full is always best. I always do. Sounds like that idea may be open to some debate.


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## EvansMarine (Jun 7, 2010)

IMO if your running the boat a lot then it doesn't matter fuel level, but if going to be put up longer than a month and less than 3 months top it off. If its been sitting longer than 3 months remove it and put fresh fuel in before running. Remove fuel by removing fuel sender and syphon from bottom of tank to ensure you get to the bottom. I have never seen a fuel withdraw tube ever sit directly on bottom of a fuel tank, so if you syphon from fuel lines your leaving all the water and bad **** in the tank and re-contaminating your fuel when re-filling. Seen it to many times in our shop.


Fair Oaks Ag said:


> Thanks for bumping this thread. Very informative. Anyone know of ethanol free fuel around Rockport? Also canâ€™t decide if keeping the tank full is always best. I always do. Sounds like that idea may be open to some debate.


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## beefmaster (Jul 30, 2009)

I'm not qualified to debate the experts, but wanted to add to the conversation that for the past three winters, I let my boat sit for almost four months without ever starting it and have had zero issues. Because my boat sits in a sling in POC, I buy all my gas (with ethanol) on the water, and use PRI-G fuel additive. Motor is a Yam 175 HPDI. Pulled the VST off a few weeks ago to change the filter, and the tank and filter were clean as a whistle. Put the boat in the water with that 4 month old gas, and it started up and ran just like it's supposed to. Maybe I'm just lucky, or maybe it's the PRI-G, but so far I've never had a fuel system problem related to ethanol. Maybe it's just a matter time until I do...


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## EvansMarine (Jun 7, 2010)

I have personally not used Pri-G, but have heard great things. Even with all these fuel system additives fuel system should be serviced every 2-3 years regardless IMO.


beefmaster said:


> I'm not qualified to debate the experts, but wanted to add to the conversation that for the past three winters, I let my boat sit for almost four months without ever starting it and have had zero issues. Because my boat sits in a sling in POC, I buy all my gas (with ethanol) on the water, and use PRI-G fuel additive. Motor is a Yam 175 HPDI. Pulled the VST off a few weeks ago to change the filter, and the tank and filter were clean as a whistle. Put the boat in the water with that 4 month old gas, and it started up and ran just like it's supposed to. Maybe I'm just lucky, or maybe it's the PRI-G, but so far I've never had a fuel system problem related to ethanol. Maybe it's just a matter time until I do...


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## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

mas360 said:


> What I don't understand about this fuel problem is I had a 1998 Honda Civic, which was put in storage for three years with a half full tank. When I took it out of storage I had to put in a new battery. It cranked up on the first try and been running, 120K additional miles, without a hiccup since then. Why the Ethanol fueld did do the same detrimental number on car engine but yet it kills outboard motors?


I think Jolly Roger answered this correctly. Most boats have vented fuel systems. I think for permanent tanks, it is a Coast Guard requirement. A car has a sealed fuel system. Considering our normally high humidity, boaters are doomed.


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## EvansMarine (Jun 7, 2010)

Vented fuel systems on boats, cars have sealed systems. Ethanol grabs humidity from the air and in a open vented system it causes problems.


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## bss1 (Sep 5, 2017)

Just for my education, how can a car have a sealed fuel system? They must be vented for the fuel pump to work. Otherwise itâ€™s like sucking on a straw with your finger over the end, right?


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## bss1 (Sep 5, 2017)

I did some googling and answered my own question. Modern cars have a valve to release the pressure. So it is somewhat vented but not to the extent of a vent that is open 24/7 like that on a boat. 


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## Joey2 (Aug 19, 2011)

*[email protected]*

Evans,

How much (rough estimate) to clean the VST and replace a fuel pump on 2004 115 Mercury 4 Stroke?


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## Chase4556 (Aug 26, 2008)

bss1 said:


> Just for my education, how can a car have a sealed fuel system? They must be vented for the fuel pump to work. Otherwise itâ€™s like sucking on a straw with your finger over the end, right?





bss1 said:


> I did some googling and answered my own question. Modern cars have a valve to release the pressure. So it is somewhat vented but not to the extent of a vent that is open 24/7 like that on a boat.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Yep, actually just went through this on my truck. Vapor canister caught fire and melted some rubber lines. For the past year my fuel tank hasnâ€™t been able to vent. When I take the gas cap off, air would rush in. While filling, it would back up and only allow a couple gallons in. The EVAP purge valve handles that part of the puzzle.

I use Stabil 360 marine in my tank, I usually try to fill up with non ethanol fuel, but sometimes I donâ€™t have the option. Longest it has set without being used was 2 months this winter and it didnâ€™t miss a beat when I fired it up.


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## EvansMarine (Jun 7, 2010)

Sorry Iâ€™m out of town and not sure off top of my head. Call Dillon at shop number below he can give you exact price


Joey2 said:


> Evans,
> 
> How much (rough estimate) to clean the VST and replace a fuel pump on 2004 115 Mercury 4 Stroke?


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## Joey2 (Aug 19, 2011)

*VST Question*

Quick question for Boatwerx, I have 2004 115 Mercury 4 Stroke EFI. Can you give me a rough estimate to clean the VST and replace the electric fuel pump?
The injectors have been recently cleaned.

Thanks in advance.


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## EvansMarine (Jun 7, 2010)

Hi Joey, I'm currently out of town and forwarded the question to Dillon at the Shop. He doesn't have access here so if you could call him at shop number below he can give you a price.
Thanks,
Bryan


Joey2 said:


> Quick question for Boatwerx, I have 2004 115 Mercury 4 Stroke EFI. Can you give me a rough estimate to clean the VST and replace the electric fuel pump?
> The injectors have been recently cleaned.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


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## Joey2 (Aug 19, 2011)

*VST Question*

Thanks!!


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