# anybody ever have this happen?



## Redsmacker (May 21, 2008)

OK, so i go today to complete the transfer of a handgun I bought online with my FFL who I usually use for this type transaction. Fill out the paperwork like I've done a dozen times in the past, FFL comes back and tells me NCIS has denied the transfer. I've gone online to the FBI NCIS website and filled out the appeal process - which you have to do to even get a reason for the denial. I have no criminal record, not even a misdemeanor ever, nor do I hit on any of the other disqualifications - so I have no idea why my transfer would be denied.
Anybody have this happen to them? An idea how long it takes to get this BS straightened out? I'm confident there's a mistake somewhere, NCIS has me crossed up with someone else - just really frustrated about this as I've already paid for the gun. :hairout::hairout::hairout:


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

For-real Denied, not Delayed?


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## Redsmacker (May 21, 2008)

I was told denied. Totally perplexed by this. No arrests, no criminal record, no pending charges, no other disqualifying factors (rehab, mental adjudication, restraining orders, etc..).


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

My guess is an issue with identification. Many layers to getting the proper id. Especially more common names, Jones and Smith, etc. Jim Smith Id goes all the way to previous addresses, etc.


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## Pocketfisherman (May 30, 2005)

Did you provide a Social Security Number? If you did and it was still denied, I'd start looking at my credit ratings. You may be a victim of identity theft.


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## Redsmacker (May 21, 2008)

I did list my SSN on the transfer form. Checked credit report and nothing fishy there. Has to be a mistake on their end, never had an issue like this and have purchased multiple firearms in the past 5 years as well as approved on NFA stamp for my .308 suppressor. Just don't know how long it will take to straighten this out, likely will need to submit fingerprints to establish identity now. What a pain in the buttocks!


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## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

Bummer. Hope you get it straightened out. Any chance you have a CHL?

But it's NICS...not NCIS...Leroy Jethro Gibbs had nothing to do with it. 

TH


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## Old sailor (Mar 30, 2014)

Did you try running it again? The same thing happened to my friend they ran it again and it went through. First person must have typed in the wrong letter or number somewhere.


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## 100 AMP (May 9, 2008)

*redo*

redo it 99.99% it will go


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## Redsmacker (May 21, 2008)

Spoke to FFL, they confirmed the correct info was submitted - doesn't mean somebody at NICS didn't fat finger a number i guess. Anyway, FFL says no point in resubmitting until I get result of appeal. Called FBI NICS line today - they no longer check status on appeals via phone and will not release reason for denial via phone due to some privacy legislation from 1974. They review online appeals in the order the arrive, currently reviewing appeals submitted in February 2014....:help:

My step sister is LEO - I sent her my info and she's going to have someone run a search on me to see what comes up. At least I'll know if there's some super-criminal out there using my identity.


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## mrvmax (May 10, 2012)

If you were denied then you were disqualified by one of the questions on the front. If the FFL entered all your info correctly then something is showing you are not legally eligible to purchase a firearm. The appeals process takes a long time, you are better off getting a CHL. If you can pass the background for the CHL then there is nothing wrong. 
Are you sure you have never had a felony? Even when you were under 18? What about a restraining order for a divorce? Ever been charged with domestic violence? Your background shows something and if the deny came quickly then there is something on your record. How fast did he give you the answer?


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## Redsmacker (May 21, 2008)

When I was 20 I got a ticket for possession of alcohol under 21. I've had one speeding ticket more than 15 years ago. That's the extent of my brushes with the law. No divorces, no restraining orders, no drugs, no mental issues not an illegal alien. I bought a firearm from the same FFL less than 6 months ago....


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## mrvmax (May 10, 2012)

Redsmacker said:


> When I was 20 I got a ticket for possession of alcohol under 21. I've had one speeding ticket more than 15 years ago. That's the extent of my brushes with the law. No divorces, no restraining orders, no drugs, no mental issues not an illegal alien. I bought a firearm from the same FFL less than 6 months ago....


What you bought 6 months ago does not matter, the NICS system may have just gotten info that they did not have six months ago. The NICS system relies upon different agencies to enter the info they are looking for so depending on when they report it your results could change. If you do not have any of the disqualifiers then there may be some wrong info or could be an identity theft issue. If you go through the appeals process it can take over a year to get the results. I suggest getting a CHL then you can bypass the NICS check (some gun shops still do the NICS even with a CHL - I would avoid those places since they are sending unneeded info). I think getting a CHL would be quicker.


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

Basically, there's a guy named Redsmacker in Ohio or Florida or something that has been a bad boy. The NICS doesn't deal in hard and fast ID, they just look for matches of names, birthdates, whatever to people on their list. This is the time to get a CHL: once the other Redsmacker got on the list, you're probably going to be denied or delayed from here on out. The appeal will clear it up, in all probability, but the next time around they're going to be working with the same info they did this time.

Either that, or they finally found the link between you and Al Qaeda after you sold Achnad that van...


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## horned frog (Nov 9, 2008)

It could be plain and simple that your FFL guy entered some information incorrectly. Seems odd that he wouldn't attempt the simple process of submitting it carefully once more. That doesn't seem like too much to ask for, especially if you have made purchases here before.


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

horned frog said:


> It could be plain and simple that your FFL guy entered some information incorrectly. Seems odd that he wouldn't attempt the simple process of submitting it carefully once more. That doesn't seem like too much to ask for, especially if you have made purchases here before.


As I understand the system, that really wouldn't cause a denial, unless just by coincidence the error resulted in them entering a name or whatever that was similar to that of some criminal.. It looks for matches, in all the combined systems of law enforcement, etc, between your info and the identifying data on somebody that IS disqualified: if it doesn't find any matches, they go with it and allow the purchase. It's not an instantaneous background check on YOUR record.


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## Redsmacker (May 21, 2008)

The FFL did confirm they correctly entered my info. He told me once they get back a denied response they can resubmit 100 times and it own't matter. The only way now to get a "proceed" is from NICS via appeal. What is frustrating is that I still don't even have the reason for the denial yet.


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## Redsmacker (May 21, 2008)

dwilliams35 said:


> Basically, there's a guy named Redsmacker in Ohio or Florida or something that has been a bad boy. The NICS doesn't deal in hard and fast ID, they just look for matches of names, birthdates, whatever to people on their list. This is the time to get a CHL: once the other Redsmacker got on the list, you're probably going to be denied or delayed from here on out. The appeal will clear it up, in all probability, but the next time around they're going to be working with the same info they did this time.
> 
> This is the most likely scenario...unfortunately i'll probably have to submit fingerprints to establish my identity.


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## rock fish king (Oct 13, 2013)

I believe there is something going on with BATFE and the IRS. I spent 18-months trying to get a class IV weapon transferred from my dad to me. Finally got it done and all of a sudden, I get a notice in the mail that I'm being audited. Never happened before. I mail my returns in without the coded sticker tag every time. Coincidence? It's Hell to be from the South and own a firearm. (I asked what "flagged" my return and got no answer)


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## Ready.Fire.Aim (Sep 22, 2009)

Please keep us informed what you find out.


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## jcm1983 (Dec 12, 2011)

*pizzed off*



just got "denied" myself. No felonies, mental issues, etc etc.


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## Redsmacker (May 21, 2008)

Update:
After consulting a few folks in the know, I renewed my CHL a few weeks back (had to take the class again since mine had expired before they change the renewal requirement to online). Should have it back in a few weeks, that will cover any future purchases from being denied. While I was getting my prints done to submit to the state I got some additional print and go cards and submitted them to NICS Appeal Division to verify my true identity and separate myself from whatever record was "similar" to mine.

Probably will have to wait until my appeal confirmation letter arrives from NICS to complete the transaction that was denied (my CHL instructor is also a FFL and said that if it was him he would have to have the letter, the CHL would not be enough for that specific transaction). He also said he believes the denial was "politically" motivated - in short he believes the background checkers at NICS are instructed to "deny" any application that "resembles" a prohibited person without checking further themselves - all in an effort to make the legal procurement of firearms more difficult. This would explain why including my SSN did not help. So here I sit, waiting for NICS Appeal Division to verify my fingerprints are not those of the "prohibited person".

Good luck to you JCM1983 - my advice is get your CHL and submit your prints to NICS to clear your record from any "confusion" with a prohibited person.


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## Tailshot (Jan 23, 2010)

Redsmacker said:


> Update:
> After consulting a few folks in the know, I renewed my CHL a few weeks back (had to take the class again since mine had expired before they change the renewal requirement to online). Should have it back in a few weeks, that will cover any future purchases from being denied. While I was getting my prints done to submit to the state I got some additional print and go cards and submitted them to NICS Appeal Division to verify my true identity and separate myself from whatever record was "similar" to mine.
> 
> Probably will have to wait until my appeal confirmation letter arrives from NICS to complete the transaction that was denied (my CHL instructor is also a FFL and said that if it was him he would have to have the letter, the CHL would not be enough for that specific transaction). He also said he believes the denial was "politically" motivated - in short he believes the background checkers at NICS are instructed to "deny" any application that "resembles" a prohibited person without checking further themselves - all in an effort to make the legal procurement of firearms more difficult. This would explain why including my SSN did not help. So here I sit, waiting for NICS Appeal Division to verify my fingerprints are not those of the "prohibited person".
> ...


 Your CHL instructor is full of ****...politically motivated! Hahaha!

Maybe the NSA saw something in one of your e-mails that red-flagged you. Have you ever said anything questionable in an e-mail, text or tweet?


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## Redsmacker (May 21, 2008)

If the current administration has a political agenda regarding the purchase and transfer of new firearms I would not be surprised. All you have to do is look at the proposed ATF rule changes regarding NFA stamps for suppressors - soon you will be required to have the signature of the Chief LEO in your county, typically the Count Sheriff. Good luck getting Adrian Garcia to sign your NFA paperwork if you live in Harris County....


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## TranTheMan (Aug 17, 2009)

Interesting. I googled what you mentioned and ran into this article where a small shop in Austin sold $1,000,000 of silencers per month!

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303492504579111243276511128


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## Redsmacker (May 21, 2008)

Not surprising, everyone is trying to get their applications in before the rule changes take effect. Public comment to ATF was fairly minimal on the issue, just under 10,000 respondents during the public comment period (nationwide) - certainly not enough to stop the proposed change. The proposed rule changes would make it virtually impossible for the regular citizen to apply for a suppressor (or any other NFA item) since most CLEOs will not sign. We can thank Eric Holder and the Justice Dept for these proposed rule changes. Since they would have to amend the constitution to completely prohibit NFA items they decided it was just easier to change the rules on how you apply to make the process near impossible.


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## Tailshot (Jan 23, 2010)

You are correct in that most county LEOs don't want you to have a suppressor and it would be a bureaucratic nightmare to get a signature. 

Interesting side note, riding along with HPD on Friday night and we rolled up to a gunfight in the Antoine/Hempstead Highway area and one of the combatants had an AK-47 and had shot a guy with it. Where was Eric Holder when that gun was acquired by a two-time convicted felon? Busy slowing down responsible citizens from legally obtaining firearms and accessories probably.


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## Fordzilla06 (Oct 14, 2010)

Redsmacker said:


> Not surprising, everyone is trying to get their applications in before the rule changes take effect. Public comment to ATF was fairly minimal on the issue, just under 10,000 respondents during the public comment period (nationwide) - certainly not enough to stop the proposed change. The proposed rule changes would make it virtually impossible for the regular citizen to apply for a suppressor (or any other NFA item) since most CLEOs will not sign. We can thank Eric Holder and the Justice Dept for these proposed rule changes. Since they would have to amend the constitution to completely prohibit NFA items they decided it was just easier to change the rules on how you apply to make the process near impossible.


BATFE didn't sign the bill no changes will go into effect before 2015, if there are any changes. The trust is still a good route to go. But getting the CLEO signature is not a new thing. If you have registered a class 3 weapon without a trust you have always needed the CLEO to sign off on it. But don't worry, the sky is not falling, and they have actually hired a lot more people to speed up the process, plus not as many people are buying them anymore, because the scare is over, or everyone has already got what they wanted, so wait times are expected to go down.


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## Redsmacker (May 21, 2008)

Fordzilla06 said:


> BATFE didn't sign the bill no changes will go into effect before 2015, if there are any changes. The trust is still a good route to go. But getting the CLEO signature is not a new thing. If you have registered a class 3 weapon without a trust you have always needed the CLEO to sign off on it. But don't worry, the sky is not falling, and they have actually hired a lot more people to speed up the process, plus not as many people are buying them anymore, because the scare is over, or everyone has already got what they wanted, so wait times are expected to go down.


I hope this is the case. From everything I've heard there has been no comment from BATF regarding the proposed rule change since the public commentary period ended last December. Basically, no one knows what they will do. Given this administration's track record of using executive order when they can't change the law to their favor I'm not optimistic. I do agree that nothing is likely to happen until 2015.


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## Redsmacker (May 21, 2008)

Updated Update:

Got my letter of approval from the Justice Dept. - much faster than I anticipated. I mailed my prints to FBI on 5/22, got the approval in the mail today and picked up my pistol. 
I was a little amused that in the cover letter they explained that I had not actually been "denied" but instead my transaction was "delayed". Kind of funny since I have a letter from them stating it was a denial. Anyway, i can rest easy knowing there isn't an evil twin Redsmacker out there committing assorted criminal acts and besmirching my sterling reputation. :smile:


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