# Shrimper pretty Close



## Brine Jake

Shrimper was just dragging right off the end of this rock groin. Betcha he has a net fulla trout.

http://www.g-townsurf.com/


----------



## bigfost

Let the games begin.

We are now entering the time of year when some shrimpers will change course just to make surf fishermen have to scramble to reel in their long lines, and make BTB fishermen pull up anchor just to get out of the way from getting run over.

I will have my camera ready this year to take pictures to show the Coast Guard when I file the complaint.:hairout:


----------



## reeltimer

They were working the color change hard between pirates beach and sea isle right now.I was watching this boat from the beachfront porch thinking it was a GW or coastie but it was some shrimplicker that ran motor over nets then started fishing,lol

Next time you buy shrimp bigfost go buy the farm raised.There just out there trying to make a living.


----------



## bigfost

reeltimer said:


> Next time you buy shrimp bigfost go buy the farm raised.There just out there trying to make a living.


Here I'm trying to be on my good behavior and you have to make a stupid comment like that.

Is that what the guy was trying to do a couple of years ago when I was surf fishing and he altered course by at least two hundred yards to move closer to the beach right in front of me, then when he had passed, he moved back out?

Or is that what they've been doing in the past two or three years when they have altered course to run through the BTB fleet, then move back out after they tried to run people down?

Why don't you call and ask the Coast Guard how many calls they've gotten in recent years about the above actions.

I suggest you refrain from commenting about what you obviously know nothing about.


----------



## sharksurfer66

bigfost said:


> Is that what the guy was trying to do a couple of years ago when I was surf fishing and he altered course by at least two hundred yards to move closer to the beach right in front of me, then when he had passed, he moved back out?


Sure do miss all the old pilings along the beach front at High Island. Kinda helped keep the shrimpers off the beach!

too bad they wont come in that close when they are culling!!


----------



## Ibtsoom

bigfost said:


> Here I'm trying to be on my good behavior and you have to make a stupid comment like that.
> 
> Is that what the guy was trying to do a couple of years ago when I was surf fishing and he altered course by at least two hundred yards to move closer to the beach right in front of me, then when he had passed, he moved back out?
> 
> Or is that what they've been doing in the past two or three years when they have altered course to run through the BTB fleet, then move back out after they tried to run people down?
> 
> Why don't you call and ask the Coast Guard how many calls they've gotten in recent years about the above actions.
> 
> I suggest you refrain from commenting about what you obviously know nothing about.


Yea I'm sure their out to get you specifically there Hoss -- Just like reeltimer said they're trying to make a living -- I wonder if shrimpers have a forum somewhere to gripe about the way other people are trying to feed their families.

And I don't have to refrain from comment -- my family have been commercial fishermen for generations. Keep on griping and calling the coast guard -- I'm sure they consider your phone calls more of a nuisance than they do the shrimpers.

PS -- I'm assuming you don't eat shrimp... and if you do then you're a hypocrite and you're whole rant is useless..


----------



## bigfost

Ibtsoom said:


> Yea I'm sure their out to get you specifically there Hoss -- Just like reeltimer said they're trying to make a living -- I wonder if shrimpers have a forum somewhere to gripe about the way other people are trying to feed their families.
> 
> And I don't have to refrain from comment -- my family have been commercial fishermen for generations. Keep on griping and calling the coast guard -- I'm sure they consider your phone calls more of a nuisance than they do the shrimpers.
> 
> PS -- I'm assuming you don't eat shrimp... and if you do then you're a hypocrite and you're whole rant is useless..


For the record, yes I eat shrimp and love them. I have nothing against law abiding shrimpers, or any other commercials.

Yes, there are a few bad apples who do things that give the rest of you bad names. Maybe instead of attacking the people who point them out you might should be policing your own ranks.

Yes, the Coast Guard was very interested in the particular boat last year that was harassing the kayakers. The last I heard they had found and fined him.


----------



## reeltimer

Maybe you should read my first post again dipsheet and thanks for the red!


----------



## bigfost

reeltimer said:


> Maybe you should read my first post again dipsheet and thanks for the red!


If you're saying you got some red, whatever that means, from me, you're wrong.

I have no idea what it is, or how to give it to you.

I think after the dipsheet comment I'll find out though.


----------



## reeltimer

bigfost said:


> If you're saying you got some red, whatever that means, from me, you're wrong.
> 
> I have no idea what it is, or how to give it to you.
> 
> I think after the dipsheet comment I'll find out though.


it wasn't you read your your rep brother.


----------



## 6.5 shooter dude

Just tap on the green square


----------



## reeltimer

Jay what would we do with out you!lol


----------



## poco jim

reeltimer said:


> Jay what would we do with out you!lol


A lot, lol


----------



## 6.5 shooter dude

reeltimer said:


> Jay what would we do with out you!lol


I figured you would get a kick out of it


----------



## bigfost

Well, now I feel like I've entered the Twilight Zone.

Maybe we should just reboot and start this thread over.


----------



## mullethead00

The shrimpers usually bring a hoard of blacktips in behind them. I'll concede the longline argument to the guys trying to make a living....but not respecting the btb'er seems way out of line.


----------



## Ibtsoom

I'll agree the profession has a handful of d-bags.. but the majority of them are just hardworking, normally poor, schmoes just trying to pay the bills. Any shrimper that's going out of their way to be a jerk to recreational fishermen or boaters will eventually have their arse handed to them -- either by the authorities, angry fishermen, other shrimpers or just plain old karma. My old man has been at it for 65 years and has the utmost respect for recreational fishermen, they keep him employed, he sells live bait. 
For the record -- 99.9% of game fish (trout / reds etc..) are too fast for a shrimp trawl -- so the loads of trout and reds that you envision being caught in the nets is simply not true.


----------



## Jolly Roger

Ibtsoom said:


> I'll agree the profession has a handful of d-bags.. but the majority of them are just hardworking, normally poor, schmoes just trying to pay the bills. Any shrimper that's going out of their way to be a jerk to recreational fishermen or boaters will eventually have their arse handed to them -- either by the authorities, angry fishermen, other shrimpers or just plain old karma. My old man has been at it for 65 years and has the utmost respect for recreational fishermen, they keep him employed, he sells live bait.
> For the record -- 99.9% of game fish (trout / reds etc..) are too fast for a shrimp trawl -- so the loads of trout and reds that you envision being caught in the nets is simply not true.


full grown reds and trout, yes they can out swim the nets. Trout and redfish fry or eggs can not. Same is true for Snapper and countless millions of pounds of dead bycatch a year.

Shrimping in general needs to go the way of the buffalo hunter, it's time has came and needs to be gone. No offence to your father but they rape the ocean and bays, destroy the bottom structure and kill untold numbers of small fish and eggs many of witch are game fish. Shrimp can be raised in ponds, no need for the destruction of the ecosystem any longer.


----------



## Ibtsoom

Jolly Roger said:


> full grown reds and trout, yes they can out swim the nets. Trout and redfish fry or eggs can not. Same is true for Snapper and countless millions of pounds of dead bycatch a year.
> 
> Shrimping in general needs to go the way of the buffalo hunter, it's time has came and needs to be gone. No offence to your father but they rape the ocean and bays, destroy the bottom structure and kill untold numbers of small fish and eggs many of witch are game fish. Shrimp can be raised in ponds, no need for the destruction of the ecosystem any longer.


Here we go with the raping thing again --the CCA mantra.. Hope nobody is ever this condemnatory of whatever it is you do for a living to feed your kids and put clothes on their back.

Have a great day and make sure you ask for farm raised bait the next time you fish with live or farm raised shrimp the next time CCA has one of their big hypocritical shrimp boils.

Have a great day -- gotta go remind my 80 year old dad that he's a rapist..


----------



## Brine Jake

I just remarked about how close that one came to the wade area. Reminded me of one day in the '70's when I saw some guys drag a 100' seine across 14th Street.

Good to see from Jolly Roger (even if guys that ride 10 ft kayaks to catch 12 foot sharks might be pretty crazy). Been a while.

I didn't mean to start an occupation/environment debate, gents. 
How bout you take it outside. It's a free country, and I certainly have no authority in the matter, but I don't think this is the right board for it. (Next thing ya know, we'll be on about Vietnamese.) Speaking of VN, maybe The Jungle--I don't really know. 

Juss sayin'


----------



## Jolly Roger

Ibtsoom said:


> Here we go with the raping thing again --the CCA mantra.. Hope nobody is ever this condemnatory of whatever it is you do for a living to feed your kids and put clothes on their back.
> 
> Have a great day and make sure you ask for farm raised bait the next time you fish with live or farm raised shrimp the next time CCA has one of their big hypocritical shrimp boils.
> 
> Have a great day -- gotta go remind my 80 year old dad that he's a rapist..


not going to find me at any CCA event, not a supporter.



Brine Jake said:


> I just remarked about how close that one came to the wade area. Reminded me of one day in the '70's when I saw some guys drag a 100' seine across 14th Street.
> 
> Good to see from Jolly Roger (even if guys that ride 10 ft kayaks to catch 12 foot sharks might be pretty crazy). Been a while.
> 
> I didn't mean to start an occupation/environment debate, gents.
> How bout you take it outside. It's a free country, and I certainly have no authority in the matter, but I don't think this is the right board for it. (Next thing ya know, we'll be on about Vietnamese.) Speaking of VN, maybe The Jungle--I don't really know.
> 
> Juss sayin'


have not gone anywhere, mostly offshore fishing.

The shrimper might not had a net of trout, but good chance he had a few tons of bycatch for the few pounds of shrimp he had.


----------



## Aadams31

Everyone has their own opinion, and everyone's opinion is the right one!


----------



## justletmein

Ibtsoom said:


> Here we go with the raping thing again --the CCA mantra.. *Hope nobody is ever this condemnatory of whatever it is you do for a living to feed your kids and put clothes on their back.*


My neighbor has 5 kids, used to sell drugs during Back to School time for clothing and new shoes for them all. Just because "It's for the children" doesn't make it right.

Having said all that, I'm ignorant in this debate so don't have a side. Just watching the thread with my popcorn. :spineyes:


----------



## TWHJ28

5 penn50 wide spooled with 80# power pro roughly $200 a piece to spool. if your lucky to get one in that's still $800 gone due to being tangled in the nets running that close or cutting line and losing stainless leaders high dollar weights and hooks. Scary thought.


----------



## TWHJ28

Are the shrimp not in deep water or whats the deal, not sure why they would do this, just asking?


----------



## seabo

TWHJ28 said:


> Are the shrimp not in deep water or whats the deal, not sure why they would do this, just asking?


in late july august the big white shrimp come in close and like the dirty water like galveston was holding this week. im a beachfront cast net shrimper by fate... lol


----------



## Ibtsoom

justletmein said:


> My neighbor has 5 kids, used to sell drugs during Back to School time for clothing and new shoes for them all. Just because "It's for the children" doesn't make it right.
> 
> Having said all that, I'm ignorant in this debate so don't have a side. Just watching the thread with my popcorn. :spineyes:


So now shrimping is the same as selling drugs to children? Good lord.. -- I'm done..


----------



## justletmein

Ibtsoom said:


> So now shrimping is the same as selling drugs to children? Good lord.. -- I'm done..


You used kids as a defense for your position in the debate, same as my neighbor used kids as a defense for his position. The actual act is irrelevant, but would also be a matter of perspective and in fact tons of people think smoking a doobie is literally harmless altogether. All I'm saying here is doing it for the chillin's don't make something right. Again I don't have a side in this debate, just watching it run it's course.


----------



## curmudgeon

If you didn't have a side int the debate it sure sounds like you do.


----------



## coachlaw

Jolly Roger said:


> full grown reds and trout, yes they can out swim the nets. Trout and redfish fry or eggs can not. Same is true for Snapper and countless millions of pounds of dead bycatch a year.
> 
> Shrimping in general needs to go the way of the buffalo hunter, it's time has came and needs to be gone. No offence to your father but they rape the ocean and bays, destroy the bottom structure and kill untold numbers of small fish and eggs many of witch are game fish. Shrimp can be raised in ponds, no need for the destruction of the ecosystem any longer.


I'm sorry, but this has to be one of the most ignorant statements I've seen here in a while . . . and from someone who usually seems to post thoughts of higher level.

Aquaculture has a lot of issues that you probably are not aware of. If you want farm raised salmon, shrimp, etc. Go for it. I do not, and a majority of people who pay attention to and care about the quality of the food they eat do not want it. They only want WILD CAUGHT. Speaking for myself, I ONLY buy wild caught. The numbers of shrimpers in our waters is very low compared to what it used to be. God bless our Gulf shrimpers for supplying us with healthy, wholesome, NON antibiotic/steroid/pollution laden goodness.

Someone complaining about a bad apple shouldn't lead everyone to condemn an entire group of people who perform an invaluable service for us through back-breaking labor, for little return relative to their effort.


----------



## fishhawkxxx

*shrimpers in too close*

do you not realize that "gulf" shrimp are the finest in the world? Did you not know that only a few months out of the year shrimpers can get close to shore? What if you were not allowed to fish the surf any time you wanted? Gimme a break man, just share!


----------



## gater

*Really*



Jolly Roger said:


> full grown reds and trout, yes they can out swim the nets. *Trout and redfish fry or eggs can not.* Same is true for Snapper and countless millions of pounds of dead bycatch a year.
> 
> Shrimping in general needs to go the way of the buffalo hunter, it's time has came and needs to be gone. No offence to your father but they rape the ocean and bays, destroy the bottom structure and kill untold numbers of small fish and eggs many of witch are game fish. Shrimp can be raised in ponds, no need for the destruction of the ecosystem any longer.


Jolly Roger them must be some pretty big fry and some pretty big eggs to get caught in a gulf trawl.:biggrin:

By the way, Redfish typically spawn in the mouth of rivers and passes where it is illegal to shrimp, Trout do not spawn offshore or on the beachfront!

By the way, as Coach mentioned, the number of shrimpers today are a fraction of what they were 20 years ago. In the 80's there were 4000 licensed shrimp boats in the gulf, in 2012 there were 900

Gater


----------



## Jolly Roger

gater said:


> Jolly Roger them must be some pretty big fry and some pretty big eggs to get caught in a gulf trawl.:biggrin:
> 
> By the way, Redfish typically spawn in the mouth of rivers and passes where it is illegal to shrimp, Trout do not spawn offshore or on the beachfront!
> 
> By the way, as Coach mentioned, the number of shrimpers today are a fraction of what they were 20 years ago. In the 80's there were 4000 licensed shrimp boats in the gulf, in 2012 there were 900
> 
> Gater


When the nets are full of bycath and shrimp the eggs and fry get caught easy in the nets. The fry stack in with the rest of the bycatch. Not going to pass through a net unless it is empty. Hope you are under the impression that fry can somehow swim through a pile of bycatch or there is this nice clean net for them to pass through.

Redfish do spawn in the mouth of rivers and passes. They do this on high tides so there eggs and fry will get moved into the bay systems by the currents. Are you under the impression that redfish eggs stay in the mouth of the rivers or passes?

As for trout, I do not know how well you know our bay systems but there are bay shrimpers, lots of bay shrimers. They shrimp exactly where trout spawn, and many other fish that spawn in the bay.

So short answer, Yes really.



coachlaw said:


> I'm sorry, but this has to be one of the most ignorant statements I've seen here in a while . . . and from someone who usually seems to post thoughts of higher level.
> 
> Aquaculture has a lot of issues that you probably are not aware of. If you want farm raised salmon, shrimp, etc. Go for it. I do not, and a majority of people who pay attention to and care about the quality of the food they eat do not want it. They only want WILD CAUGHT. Speaking for myself, I ONLY buy wild caught. The numbers of shrimpers in our waters is very low compared to what it used to be. God bless our Gulf shrimpers for supplying us with healthy, wholesome, NON antibiotic/steroid/pollution laden goodness.
> 
> Someone complaining about a bad apple shouldn't lead everyone to condemn an entire group of people who perform an invaluable service for us through back-breaking labor, for little return relative to their effort.


There is nothing ignorant about my statements, shrimping is extremely destructive to the bay and ocean. You may want to educate yourself on the subject.


----------



## gater

*Educate*



Jolly Roger said:


> When the nets are full of bycath and shrimp the eggs and fry get caught easy in the nets. The fry stack in with the rest of the bycatch. Not going to pass through a net unless it is empty. Hope you are under the impression that fry can somehow swim through a pile of bycatch or there is this nice clean net for them to pass through.
> 
> Redfish do spawn in the mouth of rivers and passes. They do this on high tides so there eggs and fry will get moved into the bay systems by the currents. Are you under the impression that redfish eggs stay in the mouth of the rivers or passes?
> 
> As for trout, I do not know how well you know our bay systems but there are bay shrimpers, lots of bay shrimers. They shrimp exactly where trout spawn, and many other fish that spawn in the bay.
> 
> So short answer, Yes really.
> 
> There is nothing ignorant about my statements, shrimping is extremely destructive to the bay and ocean. You may want to educate yourself on the subject.


Really, I think you are the one that needs to be educated. Redfish larval do not stay in the passes, they enter the bay and and grow in the the shallow, grassy marshes along the coast. The exact same place that Trout spawn. When is the last time you saw a shrimp boat dragging in the marsh!

I don't disagree that shrimping is destructive to the bay system but if there are two species of fish that shrimping has little effect on it's the trout and redfish.

I'm not sure where you have been the last 20 years are so but there are not "lots of bay shrimpers" as you imply. If you were educted you would know there has been a moratorum on shrimp license since 1996. There are only 400 active bay/bait licenses for the entire 600 miles of coastline and I would guess that only half of those are being used.

Gater


----------



## Jolly Roger

gater said:


> Really, I think you are the one that needs to be educated. Redfish larval do not stay in the passes, they enter the bay and and grow in the the shallow, grassy marshes along the coast. The exact same place that Trout spawn. When is the last time you saw a shrimp boat dragging in the marsh!
> 
> I don't disagree that shrimping is destructive to the bay system but if there are two species of fish that shrimping has little effect on it's the trout and redfish.
> 
> I'm not sure where you have been the last 20 years are so but there are not "lots of bay shrimpers" as you imply. If you were educted you would know there has been a moratorum on shrimp license since 1996. There are only 400 active bay/bait licenses for the entire 600 miles of coastline and I would guess that only half of those are being used.
> 
> Gater


So first you say they spawn in the passes and rivers for your argument, now you are saying they are in the shallow grass. Guess they just fly over all that open bay between.Shrimper bycatch kills all types of fish, redfish and trout are not immune. Shrimping destroys habit where trout and other fish spawn. Trout eggs and fry get moved all over the place by tides and currents, same is true for redfish. Your argument might be true if we were talking about fish that make beds for spawning. But we are not, so unless you understand that redfish and trout eggs and fry are moved into areas where shrimping takes place then good chance you just are not going to get it. As for destroying the bay floor, this should be easy to understand. Like you pointed out, Sea Grass is important.

There is a moratorium because the experts at TPWD wanted to stop the destruction from shrimping. I agree with them. Like you said the number of shrimpers have been on decline for years. Time to end it.


----------



## gater

Jolly Roger said:


> So first you say they spawn in the passes and rivers for your argument, now you are saying they are in the shallow grass. Guess they just fly over all that open bay between.Shrimper bycatch kills all types of fish, redfish and trout are not immune. Shrimping destroys habit where trout and other fish spawn. Trout eggs and fry get moved all over the place by tides and currents, same is true for redfish. Your argument might be true if we were talking about fish that make beds for spawning. But we are not, so unless you understand that redfish and trout eggs and fry are moved into areas where shrimping takes place then good chance you just are not going to get it. As for destroying the bay floor, this should be easy to understand. Like you pointed out, Sea Grass is important.
> 
> There is a moratorium because the experts at TPWD wanted to stop the destruction from shrimping. I agree with them. Like you said the number of shrimpers have been on decline for years. *Time to end it*.


Wishful thinking but you will never see a end to bay shrimping. As long as there is recreational fishing there will always be bay/bait shrimping. As they are doing now you can limit the number of shrimpers but you will never see an end to it. Your idea that trout and redfish larval get caught in shrimp nets is really way out there. If you really think shrimping has hurt the trout and redfish fishery you don't have a clue! Gater


----------



## kweber

lack of freshwater inflow is the biggest threat to the bays, not a few nets.


----------



## gater

*Yep*



kweber said:


> lack of freshwater inflow is the biggest threat to the bays, not a few nets.


Could not agree more! Gater


----------



## Jolly Roger

gater said:


> Your idea that trout and redfish larval get caught in shrimp nets is really way out there. If you really think shrimping has hurt the trout and redfish fishery you don't have a clue! Gater


Not hard to understand.

For an example and to make you think about it as it seems you need some help. This is only an example, happens ever fall during the bull red run.

Bay shrimpers working the ship channel area by the Bolivar ferry. His net is full of cannon ball jellys and other bycatch. Redfish eggs and fry are moved into the area by current and tide. The eggs and fry are trapped in the net because they can not flow through due to bycatch.

This is only one example. Fry and eggs getting trapped and destroyed in shrimpers nets happen all over the bays and ocean for all species of fish that swim. Now "bycatch" from shrimping is in fact food for all species of fish, the shrimp they catch is also food for fish. If you think removing tons of bait fish and shrimp from the bays does not hurt the trout and redfish population you must not have a clue. Bait fish are important to the whole bay system, trout and redfish are not immune.


----------



## SurfRunner

coachlaw said:


> Aquaculture has a lot of issues that you probably are not aware of. If you want farm raised salmon, shrimp, etc. Go for it. I do not, and a majority of people who pay attention to and care about the quality of the food they eat do not want it. They only want WILD CAUGHT. Speaking for myself, I ONLY buy wild caught. The numbers of shrimpers in our waters is very low compared to what it used to be. God bless our Gulf shrimpers for supplying us with healthy, wholesome, NON antibiotic/steroid/pollution laden goodness.


I am not on either side of the issue just because I don't know, but aquaculture can take a lot of pressure off our Gulf and bays. Its not perfect and there are a lot of kinks to work out of the technology, but it will get better as time goes on.

You will always have people who prefer wild shrimp or whatever, just like you have those that prefer organic over conventional farming. No matter what alternatives that are done there will always be those that don't like it.

Is there really that big a difference between wild and farm raised?


----------



## Jolly Roger

SurfRunner said:


> Is there really that big a difference between wild and farm raised?


No.

think 80% of shrimp sold in the us are farmed rasie. Most people eat farmed raised and do not know it.


----------



## gater

*Really*



Jolly Roger said:


> Not hard to understand.
> 
> For an example and to make you think about it as it seems you need some help. This is only an example, happens ever fall during the bull red run.
> 
> Bay shrimpers working the ship channel area by the Bolivar ferry. His net is full of cannon ball jellys and other bycatch. Redfish eggs and fry are moved into the area by current and tide. The eggs and fry are trapped in the net because they can not flow through due to bycatch.
> 
> This is only one example. Fry and eggs getting trapped and destroyed in shrimpers nets happen all over the bays and ocean for all species of fish that swim. Now "bycatch" from shrimping is in fact food for all species of fish, the shrimp they catch is also food for fish. If you think removing tons of bait fish and shrimp from the bays does not hurt the trout and redfish population you must not have a clue. Bait fish are important to the whole bay system, trout and redfish are not immune.


I'm sorry but a net full of cabbage heads is not going to stop microscopic fry from entering the bay. Now if you were to stretch a 10 micron gill net from one ferry landing to the other you might have a problem.

You can't be serious about removing bait fish from the bay system hurting the trout and redfish population. Do you inshore fish at all, have you ever been on a shrimp boat and culled through it's bycatch, do you know what trout and redfish eat. You are really reaching here and are starting to sound silly! Gater


----------



## Jolly Roger

gater said:


> I'm sorry but a net full of cabbage heads is not going to stop microscopic fry from entering the bay. Now if you were to stretch a 10 micron gill net from one ferry landing to the other you might have a problem.
> 
> You can't be serious about removing bait fish from the bay system hurting the trout and redfish population. Do you inshore fish at all, have you ever been on a shrimp boat and culled through it's bycatch, do you know what trout and redfish eat. You are really reaching here and are starting to sound silly! Gater


Ever seen what happens to a cannon ball jelly in a net? becomes a glob and will catch anything no matter of the size. Other bycatch in the net make it impossible for anything to pass through, no matter of size. Does not have to be jellys. You just do not seem to get it. Not a open net they are pulling down there, it is a big solid wall of dead fish, trash and other stuff.

So you are saying trout and redfish do not eat anything shrimpers catch. And that taking away a HUGE amount of food source does nothing to hurt the population of redfish and trout. That the destruction of the bay floor from shrimping has no effect at all on the trout or redfish population.

Just want to make sure I understand you.


----------



## gater

*Yep*



Jolly Roger said:


> Ever seen what happens to a cannon ball jelly in a net? becomes a glob and will catch anything no matter of the size. Other bycatch in the net make it impossible for anything to pass through, no matter of size. Does not have to be jellys. You just do not seem to get it. Not a open net they are pulling down there, it is a big wall of dead fish, trash and other stuff. Got to be a turtle to get out, and that only works some of the time.
> 
> So you are saying trout and redfish do not eat anything shrimpers catch. And that taking away a HUGE amount of food source does nothing to hurt the population of redfish and trout. That the destruction of the bay floor from shrimping has no effect at all on the trout or redfish population.
> 
> *Just want to make sure I understand you*.


Yep, you understand me correctly! Shrimping has no effect on trout and redfish populations.

I ask again, do you inshore fish and have you ever worked on a shrimp boat. Talking about something you evidently know nothing about.

Gater


----------



## Jolly Roger

gater said:


> Yep, you understand me correctly! Shrimping has no effect on trout and redfish populations.
> 
> Gater


Just wanted to make sure.

My father bay shrimped for some time. For the most part he did all kinds of commercial fishing to make ends meet. I myself have been on shrimp boats and have pulled nets. So yes, I know exactly what I am talking about. I inshore fish, beach fish and offshore fish. Have hundreds if not thousands of my fishing reports here in 2cool. Been doing so for a long time. Not really about me, but you insisted. As luck would have it my father got away from commerical fishing, but had family in LA that shrimped well into my high school years. They are exactly like the people you see on swamp people. I would go fishing with them as often as I could. And yes, they would drag nets in the marsh. There even was a show called "Big Shrimping" on TV that showed shrimpers dragging nets in the marshes.

I know what redfish and trout eat. I also know for a fact both of them eat shrimp. Shrimpers bycatch is also a lot of small crabs, and other crustaceans not just finfish. Removing such a large amount of a food source from the ecosystem is bad for all predators. This is simple to understand, so finding it hard to figure out why you can not.


----------



## Sea-Slug

I do not have a dog in the fight, but for the lurkers and young fisherman who are reading this thread, Jolly Roger has forgot more about surf fishing and marine ecosystems than most people will ever know. It is a scientific fact shrimping is destructive to marine ecosystems, especially grass beds, and most shrimpers now are Vietnamese who have no regard for laws or the ecosystem. That being said, I love gulf shrimp, and fully support conservation minded law abiding shrimpers. I am also glad the numbers are gradually being reduced as more and more pressures are placed on the fragile bay ecosystem. As a lifelong surf fisherman, I have had my share of run ins with Vietnamese shrimpers, who actually shot at some friends of mine at High Island once long ago because they flipped them off and used a hand held radio to cuss them out. The Vietnamese shrimper shot twice at them from about 400 yards with a lever action rifle, they saw it through binocs, and they had a child with them. I once knew another shrimper personally that had zero respect for the law, period. I have also known many fine outstanding folk who shrimp. There definitely are a few bad apples, but many shrimpers of good character and morals. Gulf shrimp taste way better than farm raised IMO. I used to go out and drag with Steve from Crystal Beach back in the day before he had his motorcycle accident, we would work in exchange for bycatch(bait) and some shrimp to munch on, so I know a little about it, not a lot.


----------



## Ibtsoom

It's no use Gator. It's like trying to convince someone not to be prejudice when they were raised that way and cant help it. Everyone who's seen a shrimp boat, been on one a handful of times or watched one on a tv show is automatically an expert on the subject. (although a very closed minded, one sided expert).

But by all means don't let me stop progress-- lets hear more of what the experts have to say on the subject.. Perhaps an excerpt from your thesis or doctoral work??


----------



## redhead fishin

Ibtsoom said:


> It's no use Gator. It's like trying to convince someone not to be prejudice when they were raised that way and cant help it. Everyone who's seen a shrimp boat, been on one a handful of times or watched one on a tv show is automatically an expert on the subject. (although a very closed minded, one sided expert).
> 
> But by all means don't let me stop progress-- lets hear more of what the experts have to say on the subject.. Perhaps an excerpt from your thesis or doctoral work??


What's the quote that comes to mind? Oh yeah: "Ignorant and stupid is no way to go through life son."


----------



## The Last Mango

Jolly Roger said:


> full grown reds and trout, yes they can out swim the nets. Trout and redfish fry or eggs can not. Same is true for Snapper and countless millions of pounds of dead bycatch a year.
> 
> Shrimping in general needs to go the way of the buffalo hunter, it's time has came and needs to be gone. No offence to your father but they rape the ocean and bays, destroy the bottom structure and kill untold numbers of small fish and eggs many of witch are game fish. Shrimp can be raised in ponds, no need for the destruction of the ecosystem any longer.


Thanks for your enlightment on this subject matter, as a concerned commercial fishermen, I advise you to immediatley ride your bicycle to work, I do not want you releasing dangerous cancerous gases into our enviroment from the emissions from you vehicle, also do not use anymore laundry detergents or fertilizers on your lawn, the runoff from your yard makes it to the bays, last but not least, how many any bugs are stuck on the grill of your truck?


----------



## Jolly Roger

The Last Mango said:


> Thanks for your enlightment on this subject matter, as a concerned commercial fishermen, I advise you to immediatley ride your bicycle to work, I do not want you releasing dangerous cancerous gases into our enviroment from the emissions from you vehicle, also do not use anymore laundry detergents or fertilizers on your lawn, the runoff from your yard makes it to the bays, last but not least, how many any bugs are stuck on the grill of your truck?


I drive a 4door 4x4 diesel truck with 35s and average 1000 miles a week. Have on hand over 4000 gallons of diesel spread out around a couple of counties for my large earth moving equipment. Good chance I burn more fuel in a week then many stores sell.

You are barking up the wrong tree, do like all the assumptions. Makes for a good laugh.


----------



## The Last Mango

Jolly Roger said:


> I drive a 4door 4x4 diesel truck with 35s and average 1000 miles a week. Have on hand over 4000 gallons of diesel spread out around a couple of counties for my large earth moving equipment. Good chance I burn more fuel in a week then many stores sell.
> 
> You are barking up the wrong tree, do like all the assumptions. Makes for a good laugh.


I knew this is what I'm up against, Larry the Cable Guy..................


----------



## Jolly Roger

The Last Mango said:


> I knew this is what I'm up against, Larry the Cable Guy..................


You nailed it, congrats.


----------



## Ibtsoom

redhead fishin said:


> What's the quote that comes to mind? Oh yeah: "Ignorant and stupid is no way to go through life son."


Is that a quote from your doctoral thesis there mr rocket scientist? Keep em coming. You guys are proving my point really well. Oh If one day we could all be as smart as you guys. Keep on watching big shrimpin fellas--it's making you smarter!!


----------



## Jolly Roger

Ibtsoom said:


> Is that a quote from your doctoral thesis there mr rocket scientist? Keep em coming. You guys are proving my point really well. Oh If one day we could all be as smart as you guys. Keep on watching big shrimpin fellas--it's making you smarter!!


Maybe one day......maybe today

....................................................................................................

"Since its inception in 1995, the Texas shrimp license buyback program has been a success, helping to decrease inshore shrimping effort by as much as 48 percent with a reduction in bycatch estimated to be as much as 40 percent. It is widely held that to produce one pound of marketable shrimp a shrimp trawl will create as much as six pounds of bycatch while also often causing significant degradation to coastal bay habitat.

"The positive results from this program are clearly evident throughout the bay ecosystem.The reduction in shrimping effort has helped build the forage base, protected bay habitat, conserved gamefish species and even helped the economics of bay shrimping," said Robin Riechers, TPWD Coastal Fisheries Director of Science and Policy. "Clearly, this program is working.""


----------



## reeltimer

So with your infinite wisdom of 36 years your telling use the bayback program and not the bycatch devices has helped the bay system but this thread was about shrimpers in on the beach.


----------



## Jolly Roger

reeltimer said:


> So with your infinite wisdom of 36 years your telling use the bayback program and not the bycatch devices has helped the bay system but this thread was about shrimpers in on the beach.


Not me telling yall that, it would be the experts. Thought I did a good job of highlighting that in red so even the slow could see it.

I just happen to agree with them.


----------



## Ibtsoom

Well thanks for enlightening me there Jolly. I never read any of that in the time I was doing intern work for national marine fisheries. Or spending thousands of hours with Texas a&m researchers on the by catch reduction research my family's boats were involved in. It all seems so clear now.


----------



## Jolly Roger

Ibtsoom said:


> Well thanks for enlightening me there Jolly. I never read any of that in the time I was doing intern work for national marine fisheries. Or spending thousands of hours with Texas a&m researchers on the by catch reduction research my family's boats were involved in. It all seems so clear now.


You are welcome.

Seemed you wanted in writing from an expert, so I gave it to you.


----------



## Ibtsoom

Jolly Roger said:


> You are welcome.
> 
> Seemed you wanted in writing from an expert, so I gave it to you.


Well I'm impressed with your cutting an pasting skills. Maybe one day you'll have a thought you created all by yourself that you can share with the group. Have a great wild caught seafood free life.


----------



## reeltimer

You don't get it were talking about gulf shrimpers getting to close to the surf and you copy and paste some carp about bay shrimping!:headknock


----------



## curmudgeon

Jolly Roger said:


> You are welcome.
> 
> Seemed you wanted in writing from an expert, so I gave it to you.


Stupid is as stupid does.


----------



## coachlaw

Jolly Roger said:


> You are welcome.
> 
> Seemed you wanted in writing from an expert, so I gave it to you.


My opinion of you has really changed. I realize that when you argue with a pig, you get down in the slop with them, so . . . . .

You sir may have all the antibiotic filled polluted farmed shrimp you want. I hope you feel good feeding them to your children.

Cut and paste some stuff on the horrors of aquaculture for us. If'n you do it enough you might learn something.


----------



## gater

*Ok*



coachlaw said:


> My opinion of you has really changed. I realize that when you argue with a pig, you get down in the slop with them, so . . . . .
> 
> You sir may have all the antibiotic filled polluted farmed shrimp you want. I hope you feel good feeding them to your children.
> 
> Cut and paste some stuff on the horrors of aquaculture for us. If'n you do it enough you might learn something.


Coach you are not going change the expert so how about I send you my fresh gulf shrimp kabob recipe with my famous redfish fry cream sauce.









Gater


----------



## Jolly Roger

gater said:


> Coach you are not going change the expert so how about I send you my fresh gulf shrimp kabob recipe with my famous redfish fry cream sauce.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gater


Got to love the irony.

..................................................................................

"It is important to remember that shrimp trawl bycatch is made up of everything from vital forage fish to juvenile game species," said Robby Byers, CCA Texas Executive Director. "Millions of pounds of bycatch are removed from Texas bays each year by shrimping efforts. By reducing the number of working licenses, the cumulative bycatch poundage and habitat destruction will continue to decrease, resulting in healthier and more productive ecosystems."


----------



## justletmein

I find it humorous how some in this thread only throw out defensive insults and others are posting things from TPWD and CCA. I'm slowly forming an opinion. Obviously some in this thread are very biased as well so it helps knowing that.


----------



## SurfRunner

justletmein said:


> I find it humorous how some in this thread only throw out defensive insults and others are posting things from TPWD and CCA. I'm slowly forming an opinion. Obviously some in this thread are very biased as well so it helps knowing that.


^X2....I sat here for 30 minutes wanting to respond trying to figure out what to say........You said it!

I am not convinced by "name calling".


----------



## Sea-Slug

Taking the high road is usually the best way to respond, it is a complex issue, old ways die hard, and like I said I see both sides to it. I also love gulf shrimp. I also want the fishing to be better or at least as good as it is now for my great grandchildren to enjoy.JR is not a tree hugger, and he is one heck of a fisherman, I do know that. I am sure Gator is a fine gentleman from a good family also, I just never met him. Sometimes it is healthy for fisherman to be divided and debate different positions on things that effect our sport, we dont have to take it to a personal level or get hateful. Like I said, most shrimpers are good men, and I believe most recreational anglers are also.


----------



## manwitaplan

justletmein said:


> I find it humorous how some in this thread only throw out defensive insults and others are posting things from TPWD and CCA. I'm slowly forming an opinion. Obviously some in this thread are very biased as well so it helps knowing that.


Very well stated and I agree with you!

Carry on!.

JR - It is no use my man but keep up the fight if you have the energy! I guess when it comes to lively hood some people will defend it all cost. Carbon footprint here I come.

Manwitaplan


----------



## justletmein

manwitaplan said:


> JR - It is no use my man but keep up the fight if you have the energy! *I guess when it comes to lively hood some people will defend it all cost. *


Exactly, when someone is involved in it it's like trying to argue about lung cancer with big tobacco, environmental issues with big oil, finances with Enron, etc... What's the company that polluted Lavaca Bay? They will all stand their ground no matter what because they profit, it's not them you have to convince it's the rest of the public.

^I'm not saying that shrimping is comparable to any of that, just saying you can't argue with someone who has profitable interest in the business that's involved in the debate because the bias is too thick.


----------



## gater

*What you talking about!*



justletmein said:


> Exactly, when someone is involved in it it's like trying to argue about lung cancer with big tobacco, environmental issues with big oil, finances with Enron, etc... What's the company that polluted Lavaca Bay? They will all stand their ground no matter what because they profit, it's not them you have to convince it's the rest of the public.
> 
> ^I'm not saying that shrimping is comparable to any of that, just saying you can't argue with someone who has profitable interest in the business that's involved in the debate because the bias is too thick.


I have nothing to do with shrimping or any for of commercial fishing and I agree that dragging in certain area was never good for it. However, for argument sakes people can come up with some off the wall stuff to make a point.

Bottom line is that bay shrimping is not going to harm the trout and red population's and that by removing all this bait and bycatch that the trout and reds will not shrivle up and die. It ain't going to happen so quit worrying about it!

Gater


----------



## justletmein

gater said:


> I have nothing to do with shrimping or any for of commercial fishing and I agree that dragging in certain area was never good for it. However, for argument sakes people can come up with some off the wall stuff to make a point.
> 
> Bottom line is that bay shrimping is not going to harm the trout and red population's and that by removing all this bait and bycatch that the trout and reds will not shrivle up and die. It ain't going to happen so quit worrying about it!
> 
> Gater


I won't argue with that, other than to say humans are competing with the trout and reds for the same food source (skrimps in this case) so that obviously has an effect on the population but what are we gonna do, stop eating shrimp? I'm not. I buy/order shrimp every chance I get, no idea if they're farm raised or not.


----------



## johnmyjohn

Good post covering a little bit of everything, positive and negative. Responding to the shrimpers dragging close to the beach, been there done that. I think anybody that surf fished in the 80's back has at one time or the other lost a line to a shrimper. Most did drag further away from shore but there is always a few in any group. The shrimpers that came close were not of minority status by the way because their faces could be seen. I had sportmans shrimp license for a while back then also and yes you killed a lot of small fish but that's what happens when you want some shrimp, right? As far as the 4000 shrimp license there has to be a miss count because there sure looked to be more than that. What the experts don't tell you is the habitat could take that many shrimpers back then because there was a fraction the fisherman than now. If the bait wasn't there the game fish wouldn't either. I was one of those that would catch fifty trout a day and be disappointed and that's with a dozen shrimpers within sight at all times it seemed. I'm not apologizing for that, it was the time, it was legal and the fish were there. In my uneducated book the fishing pressure now has increased to offset the shrimper by catch reduction except it's game fish now where the shrimpers killed most pin fish croakers, shad and such back then. As far as the farm shrimp goes, there's no way they are as good or taste better than good old iodine smelling gulf shrimp. Do I want for shrimpers to go away? Of course not, I like shrimp. How about not allowing anyone under 55 years of age to get fishing license? That would be just fine with me, maybe I could buy a quart of shrimp for 4 bucks again. Sounds like we all have ideas of some sort to help the ecosystem.


----------

