# TPWD Looking at Closing Conservation Season for Snow Geese



## Swampstomper (Apr 19, 2010)

Just got a survey on goose hunting from TPWD today. Asking questions about regular and conservation season. One of the questions says that it,s been recommended that the conservation season be closed due to lack of participation and declining goose #,s.

We just had a decent bump up in light goose numbers this season. Of course it,s not going to ever get back where it was but there,s plenty of snows still coming here. More than enough to have an extended season. Even if 10,000 snows are taken during the CO, that,s a drop in the bucket to the 400,000 + we had this season.

I would,nt mind a bit if they did away with the e-callers but there,s no reason not to have an open season till mid-March.

If you like to hunt geese in Feb and Mar, it would be a good idea to let TPWD know how you feel. Otherwise some numbnuts with contacts and an agenda will have us hanging it at the end of Jan..


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## james hines (Nov 21, 2006)

Got the same survey Saturday


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## 3rdcst (Jun 16, 2009)

Little reason to have it but also little reason not to have it.


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## Kylie (Mar 16, 2008)

conservation season is when we killed most of our geese.


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## chuck leaman (Jul 15, 2004)

After the first week or so we never heard anyone else shoot. Might as well have it. I mean we have a rail and gallinule season and almost no one hunts them here either.


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## aTm08 (Dec 30, 2011)

Kylie said:


> conservation season is when we killed most of our geese.


This^ hunted up north etc this past season. Had my best light goose hunt in 10 years this past ecaller season practically "in my own backyard"

I for one cannot see the closing of a season for lack of use. Like chuck said there are other seasons not taken advantage of but no talk of cutting them off.


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## Mr. Saltwater (Oct 5, 2012)

Makes no sense to close it. While it probably won't ever be like it was 10 years ago, some folks will still have some great hunts.


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## [email protected] (May 24, 2004)

I also received the survey form in the mail. I think TPWD is merely seeking input they may pass along to the USFWS.  Texas can only recommend, the feds decide. My guess would be that if the conservation season remains open anywhere in the central flyway it will include the full flyway...but that's just a guess.

I hope they leave it alone, February would sure be boring without it. Even if we no longer see the 100+ bird shoots of the glory days, it's still a ton of fun and I'm happy with shooting 5 per gun. Heck that was the limit once a time.


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## Swampstomper (Apr 19, 2010)

The feds control whether there is a CO seaon or not for the flyways. The states in those flyways do have the power to have the season or not.

I think they,re looking at the extra season hurting overall numbers more than participation. As well stated earlier, there,s lots of open seasons with low participation.

I,ve read statements from some who really think that we killed off too many snows and that,s why the numbers are down in TX. Some of those same folks think the extended season helping a continued decline. I,d bet some of those are outfitters who don,t hunt the ecaller season anyway.

The winter count in TX went from around 190 K in 2013-14 to 400+K this past season. I think the increase should be enough to disspell the killing them off idea.

For myself and I,m sure most other non-guide goose hunters it,s about the extra chances to get in the field. My opportunities to get after geese each season are limited and valuable.


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## 4thbreak (May 20, 2005)

While the survey might help gauge public perspective on the CO, I think we need to focus more on exactly where these 20 million snow geese are and if they can be killed over 50 or less decoys.


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## 3rdcst (Jun 16, 2009)

If there wasn't a CO Snow goose season would last till Feb 14 . Canada and Sand hill Crane season would also last until Feb.I personally don't like the CO but I don't see any benefit or hurt.


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## Chuckwagon (Aug 30, 2006)

Hunting sandhills longer would be nice, but what about canadas!?! They hardly come to the coast anymore.

Why don't they cancel canada season? We must have killed them all. Same logic they are using with snow geese.

Any time the gov't takes away hunting privileges, it is a bad day.


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## Goose Lover (Jan 23, 2012)

I agree. Leave it open. The conservation season amounts to a couple of extra weeks of being able to hunt snow geese since the season would normally end in Mid February.

If a person wants to hunt and there some geese around why deny him the opportunity if he wants to go? Participation has dropped significantly but that's not a reason to shut it down.


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## gulfcoast200 (Jun 26, 2004)

Swampstomper said:


> The feds control whether there is a CO seaon or not for the flyways. The states in those flyways do have the power to have the season or not.
> 
> I think they,re looking at the extra season hurting overall numbers more than participation. As well stated earlier, there,s lots of open seasons with low participation.
> 
> ...


X2. Lack of participation shouldn't matter they're not loosing money due to lack of participation. Some of us look forward to getting out and not having to worry about duck hunters screwing things up for us.


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## G K Chambers (Aug 12, 2005)

gulfcoast200 said:


> . Some of us look forward to getting out and not having to worry about duck hunters screwing things up for us.


X2

If someone wanted to bypass the survey and express their views on the CO in Texas directly to the powers that be they might want to have a look here:

http://tpwd.texas.gov/business/about/commission/commissioners/

If anyome has an email list for the Commisioners and would be willing to post it I'd be glad to have it.


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## 3rdcst (Jun 16, 2009)

The Conservation Order hunting in the spring isn't causing the decline in hunting in Texas. The fall season in Canada is exposing birds to decoys and killing large numbers of juvenile snow geese. This birds that are here in Nov have been hunted with E-callers for 6 weeks. Basically the earl november birds are *** smart as the mid december birds were before the fall use of e calls.


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## goosekillr (Jul 11, 2007)

This battle has been fought several times in the past. At least the third time tpwd has tried to eliminate extended season. Last times they held public comment meetings. Guess they are hoping for the results they want with a survey. Could take or leave it but if you enjoy your right to it you better e-mail them.


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## Swampstomper (Apr 19, 2010)

Well the proposed dates are out for ducks,geese and cranes. No Conservation season being shown. Here,s the link to make your feelings known.http://tpwd.texas.gov/business/feedback/public_comment/proposals/201508_late_migratory.phtml


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## Land or Water (May 12, 2013)

Thanks for posting the link Swampstomper.... done!


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## bradgordy (May 28, 2015)

We definitely do not need to lose even more texas goose hunters to other states offering e caller season. Would make absolutely no sense to close it in Texas only.


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## oOslikOo (Jul 13, 2010)

bradgordy said:


> We definitely do not need to lose even more texas goose hunters to other states offering e caller season. Would make absolutely no sense to close it in Texas only.


 I love it......people from Texas go to Missouri every year to rake snows and we were killing double digits into march down here in the spread :rotfl:.


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## barbless (Jul 27, 2004)

thanks for posting - done


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## Swampstomper (Apr 19, 2010)

oOslikOo said:


> I love it......people from Texas go to Missouri every year to rake snows and we were killing double digits into march down here in the spread :rotfl:.


Won,t be shooting any even in Feb if there,s not enough input to keep it open. Seems like someone at TPWD really wants it closed.


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## [email protected] (May 24, 2004)

I completed the survey and will encourage all my hunting buddies and family members to do the same. I hope we do not lose our CO light goose season. Something I did not understand on the form; as pertains to sandhill crane - the verbiage above the date proposals said they were considering expanding the number of days for Zone C but it appears as same number to me (calendar shift being only change). Did I miss something?


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## gulfcoast200 (Jun 26, 2004)

This is the response I got yesterday when I emailed the Waterfowl Program Leader. I didn't get the Light Goose Survey this year like I have in the past so I do not know what the questions that he references in the email are. Out of curiosity if anyone got the survey and can remember the questions please post them up. Here's his response.

*"We are not looking to do away with the CO at this time but we did include a question or two about people's opinions on the CO in our annual Light Goose Harvest Survey."

Feel free to contact me if you have additional questions.

Best,

Kevin Kraai*

I'm ok with it but, I still think we need to make our voices heard that there are a bunch of us that still hunt snow geese during the CO.


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## Swampstomper (Apr 19, 2010)

The questions were :

How many days did you hunt in the CO ?

How many light geese did you shoot ?

How many geese were crippled and not retrieved ?

Then - It has been suggested that the CO be closed due to the lack of participation and declining snow goose numbers.

Would you support the closure of the CO ?


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## Chuckwagon (Aug 30, 2006)

I want to believe what he replied to you Zack, but I'm having a hard time accepting it. How come very few people received these surveys?

I don't recall ever seeing a public comment for late season framework that didn't include a proposed CO since it started. I even went back at looked at some of the archived previous years. 

Also don't like the fact that normally the TPWD website usually posts something when the public comments go up for migratory seasons. Couldn't find anything announcing that.

Call me paranoid, but I think someone has an agenda.


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## gulfcoast200 (Jun 26, 2004)

I'm sure there is an agenda. I don't buy that "lack of participation" nonsense. It's can not be costing the State of Texas much to have the season other than the ink and paper that the regulations and surveys are put on. They don't have any WMA's open during CO, the game wardens are already out working and I've yet to run across one during CO so I highly doubt that its costing them a lot of resources to have CO. Then as said before if "lack of participation" is a factor then why do we have a season for Coot, Gallinule, Chachalaca, Snipe, Woodcock and Moorhens. I'm not advocating closing any of those seasons because I know that there are Texans out there that take the opportunity to hunt those birds but if the TPWD is using that as their basis then I would think those seasons wouldn't exist any more either. Scientifically closing a season due to "lack of participation" just doesn't make sense.


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## Goose Lover (Jan 23, 2012)

The department proposes to end the regular light goose season at the end of January. 

That means they would keep the conservation season

Otherwise the light goose season would end in the middle of February, which would allow for the maximum number of days for light goose hunting. All of the other waterfowl (ducks, canadas and specklebellies, are all running for their maximum number of allowable days.

There is no conspiracy or agenda.


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## G K Chambers (Aug 12, 2005)

Nothing will stir up Snow Goose hunters like a good old fashioned summertime conspiracy.

Made some enquiries.

Simmer down:

(4) Special Light Goose Conservation Period.(A) From *February 1 â€" March 20, 2016*[January 26 â€" March 22, 2015], the take of light geese is lawful in Eastern Zone as defined in Â§65.317 of this title (relating to Zones and Boundaries for Late Season Species).
(B) From *February 1 â€" March 20, 2016*[February 2 â€" March 22, 2015], the take of light geese is lawful in the Western Zone as defined in Â§65.317 of this title.
This agency hereby certifies that the proposal has been reviewed by legal counsel and found to be within the agencyâ€™s authority to adopt.

You can see the whole proposal here:
https://tpwd.texas.gov/business/feedback/meetings/2015/0326/agenda/work_session/index.phtml


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## Swampstomper (Apr 19, 2010)

G K Chambers said:


> Nothing will stir up Snow Goose hunters like a good old fashioned summertime conspiracy.
> 
> Made some enquiries.
> 
> ...


Good to know. I guess it,s back to watching the calender and weather.


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## 3rdcst (Jun 16, 2009)

Before GK shut the TPWD up. There were rumors of secrete meetings in the closed down Wal Marts and Greg Abbot had put the National Guard on alert to make sure the Feds weren't padding the numbers the deprive Texans of their God given right to hunt snow geese with E-Callers


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## Goose Lover (Jan 23, 2012)

According to the information provided by the migratory bird office the current estimate of the mid continent light goose population is 16 million. This comes from statistical information gathered from band returns versus the number of birds banded in a year. I have read how they calculate that and it is very complicated. Like trying to figure out string theory in atoms. 

According to the graphs that is right at the highest number recorded. Officials believe however that the population has stabilized or is barely growing.

Also the number of light geese being harvested has dropped significantly since the conservation season began in 1998. The harvest was very high at first and seemed to be putting a good dent in the population but that was only temporary. 

There is also disagreement about the white goose situation among the wildlife agency officials. Some believe the birds are doing a lot of damage to the nesting grounds which is going to greatly hurt them and other species in the future.

On the flip side the Canadian officials say the Arctic is huge and there are still large areas the bird are not using and can expand into. 

But others counter that may be true but that will cause problems for other species already nesting in those area such as Specklebellies, ducks and shorebirds. 

They also don't believe the conservation season is going to have the impact they had hoped.


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## 4thbreak (May 20, 2005)

The feds changed their reporting requirements for the hunter surveys and TPWD was able to remove a few questions and add some others. They are just trying to get a larger data set of opinions if the topic comes up in the future.


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## Goose Lover (Jan 23, 2012)

Had the chance to speak with an individual in the waterfowl division a few days ago.

What I gathered is that the conservation season isn't going away anytime soon.

The department is very concerned about light goose hunting (as well as all other waterfowl) on the coast. 

And the drop in snow goose numbers over the past 20 years is also a source of unease. 

The waterfowl division is in good hands. They are smart, informed and work hard.


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## G K Chambers (Aug 12, 2005)

X2


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## Whitecrow (May 26, 2004)

I'd be for the ending of the conservation season, IF they ended it nationwide and in Canada. Ending it in Texas only won't do squat, except remove hunting opportunity for Texans. To me it's pretty obvious it hasn't done the job, so now it's really just about the add'l opportunity to get in the field with juke boxes.


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## Goose Lover (Jan 23, 2012)

Based on conversations with the agency officials they also don't believe it has done much.

Early on it was bringing the numbers down but that has been reversed if the population estimates are accurate.

I don't see that reducing hunting opportunity is a good choice. Very few people wade fish in the surf during the winter but that doesn't mean it should be prohibited.

Some people do still enjoy the conservation season, both here and the northern states, so let them have their time in the field.


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## oOslikOo (Jul 13, 2010)

What doesn't make sense to me is if it aint doin what they thought why cut it out? There is an alleged over abundance of light geese so why cut out 5-6 weeks of killin em whether it's 10 people chasin them or 100,000? If your logic is Texas goose numbers are down, you cant say lets close it because if nobody is hunting them (reason for closure), nobody is killin em either.


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## 4thbreak (May 20, 2005)

Asking a question in a survey that very few people received is far from TPWD closing the CO down.


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## Goose Lover (Jan 23, 2012)

The conservation season will be closed if the light goose numbers drop to the population targets.

Otherwise it will stay open. Which it should.

Maybe it will see a resurgence in popularity. Nobody knows. No reason to deprive those that enjoy it.


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## 4thbreak (May 20, 2005)

The whole situation needs to be reaccessed.


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## Goose Lover (Jan 23, 2012)

By "reassessed" do you mean eliminate the conservation season and move to more extreme measures such as poisoning, chemical treatment or some other massive control method which have discussed? 

I don't want to go that route. The conservation season is not bringing the numbers down as intended but closing it won't help anything either. Let people have the opportunity.


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## 4thbreak (May 20, 2005)

Numbers don't mean anything anymore and the whole thing is baseless.


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## Goose Lover (Jan 23, 2012)

What is baseless about it?

And what would you have the agencies do?


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## 3rdcst (Jun 16, 2009)

Reassess first i would like some realistic numbers 16 million just aint happening.


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## Whitecrow (May 26, 2004)

I'd like to see it go away nationwide in the interest of making the geese easier to kill. I have no doubt that geese seeing giant spreads and juke boxes in Canada in the fall before they even get here makes them tougher to kill. Even the yearlings are educated. The geese just aren't the same anymore.


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## Goose Lover (Jan 23, 2012)

According to the agency officials the young bird productivity is declining some.

From they told me that is somewhat of a good thing but it still doesn't outweigh that the birds live a long time and even with a reduced percentage of young they have no problem more than replacing themselves.

So it is a tough nut to crack for the agencies.

On another positive note they are seeing greater numbers of polar bears using the light goose breeding grounds. Apparently the bears have figured out they can get more calories and energy from eating goose eggs than they burn up looking for them.


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## castnblast4life (Jun 12, 2007)

We had one of the best extended season this year. Seems to me where we hunt it's the only time you can really kill them and it's only because they are so hungry when they finally find a food source that time of year you can't beat them off it.


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## Goose Lover (Jan 23, 2012)

I agree. I believe that a disproportionate number of really good hunts comes during the conservation season. 

And that is why they should leave it open. Even a reduced number of people decide to hunt they have the chance to enjoy some really good hunting as you have.


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## 4thbreak (May 20, 2005)

Everything was behind last year. Even the snows didn't get stupid until later than normal.


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## DuckFever (Nov 4, 2013)

Not to hijack the Goose thread, but what do you guys think of the Duck proposal?



TPWD said:


> Ducks
> 
> With respect to ducks, the proposed amendment would retain the season structure from last year for the South Duck Season, adjusted for calendar shift. The proposed amendment would alter the North Zone duck season to open one week later compared to last year. The proposed amendment takes a different approach to providing additional opportunity for hunters. The split will be concurrent but the two zones will have different opening and closing dates (one week different for both) thereby adding a total of two weeks of opportunity for hunters wishing to hunt across zones.


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