# Shock Collars and Labs



## Captain Greg (Jul 19, 2007)

I recently bought a Yellow Lab, and he is doing great. I am reading the book WaterDog by Richard Wolters, and right now I am just in the "playful learning stage" working on the "sit" "stay" "come" and "heel" commands. He is doing great! 
I have had Labs before, but never really hunted them or trained them for hunting - mostly family house dogs. I did use a shock collar on them to keep them from running off when I let them out, and it worked for that. I am able to put much more time and effort into this puppy, and am wondering if I will need to use a collar.
How many of you Lab owners trained with a shock collar, and how many didn't? How did it go, do's and dont's, etc....


----------



## Muddskipper (Dec 29, 2004)

I have a one year old and have yet to put the shock collar on her ...

I want to di it under supervision of a professinal trainer 

I know of a few owners who messed up thier dogs

If used properly it is a great tool


----------



## Crw910 (Sep 3, 2009)

i have 2 labs and the first one was trained by a professional. the 2nd is being trained by me. I had my trainer train me how to train him on the shock collar. I love having it, however i dont like relying strictly on that. they are fantastic tools and can make a world of difference on a pup. the best thing is to wait for your pup to lose all puppy teeth and then start them on the correction "choke" chain collar. You can use that after a while to transition them into the E-collar.


----------



## bayourat (Jan 7, 2005)

Muddskipper said:


> I have a one year old and have yet to put the shock collar on her ...
> 
> I want to di it under supervision of a professinal trainer
> 
> ...


It's the BEST tool and the WORST. The main thing is using it correctly and not over using it. Also use the lowest setting your dog will respond to.


----------



## dwhite (Jul 11, 2007)

Already been stated here but just to drive the fact home...it IS A GREAT tool when USED PROPERLY! Too high of settings, used too often, used at the wrong time are all problems you can and will encounter if not used properly. Work with a good amateur or a pro and learn how and when to use the collar...the first step is collar condioning.


----------



## jerry109999 (Oct 14, 2005)

*collar*

If you are interested in using a e-collar my suggestion would be the following:
Each and every time from 12 weeks old put a collar on him when you leave the house or start your training. This will give him the association of good things happening when he sees the collar. DO NOT TURN THE COLLAR ON AT ALL DURING THIS TIME DON'T EVEN HAVE THE BATTERY IN IT.
Work on obedience ALOT with him and very little negative corrections. If he is not doing what you want him to do just show him the proper way to do it. If he moves when you sit him in a place take him back and make him sit. If he breaks on a retrieve with the check cord on him, pull him back and don't let him retrieve the bumper, make him sit and watch you retrieve. If he does not do it the right way he gets no reward, he will soon get the idea. At 18-20 weeks you can get a little more forceful with him because he has had the proper obedience ingrained in his learning, still no corrections with the collar. 
At 6 months I would HIGHLY suggest you take the dog to a qualified trainer and have force fetch instilled and also a formal learning program started. The trainer will correct the bad habits that you have let him get away with but you will also have a dog that has the proper tools to breeze through the training that the other dogs have not done. By using Wolters book you have already made the formal training easier for him and the trainer will be able to progess in leaps and bounds verses starting from scratch. Let the trainer use the e-collar on him and after force fetch he will have a better understanding of his place in the world and also understand that his negative actions have a negative response from you.
Remember that you are going to have a friend for hopefully a very long time and the proper start will only make him a better friend in the future.

If you do go the route of professional training I used Rody Best at Best Retrievers in Page Texas 3 month program. I showed up once a week when he was in training and he was NEVER in his cage when I got there and many times they never knew that I was comming over. From what I saw the dogs were out in the exercise yard getting socialized any where from 5-8 hours daily and also had vet visits once or twice a month.

Good luck
Jery


----------



## Levelwind (Apr 15, 2005)

My dogs run on electricity. A shock collar is a great tool but it won't make up for a lack of knowledge, patience, and time spent in the training process. You have to evaluate your dog, also. Mine both tend to be a little (the girl) to a lot, (my old guy, retired now), hard headed and hard butted. A soft dog can be ruined even by a pro with a shock collar. Collar conditioning (no battery) is probably a good thing, even if you never have to use one. If you do you'll be that far ahead.


----------



## Spots and Dots (May 23, 2004)

jerry109999 said:


> If you are interested in using a e-collar my suggestion would be the following:
> Each and every time from 12 weeks old put a collar on him when you leave the house or start your training. This will give him the association of good things happening when he sees the collar. DO NOT TURN THE COLLAR ON AT ALL DURING THIS TIME DON'T EVEN HAVE THE BATTERY IN IT.
> Work on obedience ALOT with him and very little negative corrections. If he is not doing what you want him to do just show him the proper way to do it. If he moves when you sit him in a place take him back and make him sit. If he breaks on a retrieve with the check cord on him, pull him back and don't let him retrieve the bumper, make him sit and watch you retrieve. If he does not do it the right way he gets no reward, he will soon get the idea. At 18-20 weeks you can get a little more forceful with him because he has had the proper obedience ingrained in his learning, still no corrections with the collar.
> At 6 months I would HIGHLY suggest you take the dog to a qualified trainer and have force fetch instilled and also a formal learning program started. The trainer will correct the bad habits that you have let him get away with but you will also have a dog that has the proper tools to breeze through the training that the other dogs have not done. By using Wolters book you have already made the formal training easier for him and the trainer will be able to progess in leaps and bounds verses starting from scratch. Let the trainer use the e-collar on him and after force fetch he will have a better understanding of his place in the world and also understand that his negative actions have a negative response from you.
> ...


this is the best dog advice I've ever read on 2cool.

E-collars are not for learning, but for reinforcing learned commands. You can not "burn and learn" a dog. you must teach them how, then correct them when doing wrong. An E-collar is simply an extension of the leash.....it gives you control when your dog is 100+ yards away.


----------



## btreybig (Jul 3, 2008)

Never have had a collar on my dog. From the day I got him, I started working with him. If you train your dog right, theres no need for a collar what so ever. I know people who live by them and its just not for me. But ill say it again like above, its a great tool to have if used properly but can quickly ruin a dog if not.


----------



## Kenner 23 (Sep 14, 2009)

SkintBack said:


> I recently bought a Yellow Lab, and he is doing great. I am reading the book WaterDog by Richard Wolters, and right now I am just in the "playful learning stage" working on the "sit" "stay" "come" and "heel" commands. He is doing great!
> I have had Labs before, but never really hunted them or trained them for hunting - mostly family house dogs. I did use a shock collar on them to keep them from running off when I let them out, and it worked for that. I am able to put much more time and effort into this puppy, and am wondering if I will need to use a collar.
> How many of you Lab owners trained with a shock collar, and how many didn't? How did it go, do's and dont's, etc....


If they are using their heads, yes everyone should use an E-Collar. May I suggest a more current training program? Search for Mike Lardy's Total Retriever Training DVD's, Mike has trained more National Field Champions than another Pro in the history of the game. His training program is no different than what most of us use to start gun dogs. I believe his website is totalretrievertraining.com, check it out.

Good Luck


----------



## goatchze (Aug 1, 2006)

I have a 3 yr old lab that I trained myself. I got a collar, but only after he was quite a bit older. Most of his obediance training came w/o the collar; I only used the collar to correct a few small things from a distance that were difficult to do w/o it (such as jumping on the back door and a bit on casting/ blind retrieves). Others have stated it perfectly; it's a great tool when used properly! But when used improperly....

The funny thing is, he LOVES wearing it. Mostly because he associates it with "getting out" and "doing stuff". He goes as crazy when I get it out of the closet as he does when you get out his leash!


----------



## NicklesOSU (Jun 3, 2008)

Labs are smart dogs, just high energy. Work with your dog daily and there will be no need for an e-collar. Patience and a good check cord go a long way with these dogs.


----------



## Captain Greg (Jul 19, 2007)

*Thanks*

Thanks guys for the helpful information. Like I said, he is doing great right now for a 10 week old puppy. I have only had him 7 days and he is sitting, staying and heeling pretty good.


----------



## rlw (May 21, 2004)

NicklesOSU said:


> Labs are smart dogs, just high energy. Work with your dog daily and there will be no need for an e-collar. Patience and a good check cord go a long way with these dogs.


Daily and short sessions, don't try to stretch the attention span.


----------



## Captain Greg (Jul 19, 2007)

rlw said:


> Daily and short sessions, don't try to stretch the attention span.


I have been working him at the most 7 to 8 minutes in one setting, but may do that two to three times a day. Once in the morning before I leave for work - when I get home from work - and a little before bed. Is that about right for a "short" session? Then i just let him play and try to "bond" with him...

whatcha think?


----------



## Swamp Root (May 12, 2009)

I have trained 6 labs to duck hunt, starting when I was 14 years old. I read water dog also, and baised all of the training from the direction given in that book. One thing I can tell you is that you need to let the dog get out of his puppy stage before even attempting to USE an e-collar. The advice given previously about letting the dog wear the collar early and get used to it is EXCELLENT advice! Also, you need to become familiar with your dogs temperment and how he/she reacts to discipline. I know from personal experience that too much discipline can result in ruining a dog forever! When I was younger I had a very hard hand, but the dog I was training would take hard discipline like a champ and then lick me in the face after I corrected her! NOT ALL DOGS ARE TEMPERED THAT WAY! I trained a yellow female about 5 years ago that was an excellent dog, but I had to learn a lesson the hard way about being too hard on a dog... the e-collar literally ruined her! On the other hand, I trained a black male on a collar and he was a perfect example of what a dog should act like while hunting, with the use of a collar. I now have a 1.5yr old yellow male that I tried an e-collar on and he absolutely shut down when I used it on him! 

Some dogs need it, some only need it at times, and other never do, just depends on the animal.


----------



## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

My dog literally sits by her collar begging to have it put on and starts going CRAZY when she sees the remote.... she loves it....

I trained mine a different way with the collar.... Its a STOP AND HEEL UP IMMEDIATELY collar.... I havent hit a button on her in 2 years, BUT, I can tell you it has saved her life at least 4 times....

Once she got all fired up at a cat and chased it to the street.... I yelled and she zoned me out.... One touch on the TriTronics on 2 and she stopped dead in her tracks just before a UPS truck zoomed in front of her.... she 180d and was at my side in no time...

Another time, she was after a hog twice her size and was all wired up.... POP.... back at my heel and out of the way of an angry hog and a 3" BB to its face...

My dial turns up to Level 5.... The only time its ever been used over 2 is when my buddy was passed out on my couch and we needed some entertainment... haha...

My dog originally responded to the lowest lever 1/2... but like I said, I rarely use the collar at all... just for emergencies

Ive never heard of anybody else using the collar this way, and note, I do not have a finished field trial dog.... I have a retriever that just happens to not break on the shot... haha


----------



## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

It's pretty much been covered, but I really think the best way to do it is to do it with a pro for the first time out: they're a big stick: you can either make great advances or great disasters: not much in-between. There's a book that Tri-tronics puts out, by Jim and Phyllis Dobbs, that explains the psychology, etc. behind the proper use of the collar pretty well: it's worth looking into BEFORE you get the collar going...

http://www.gundogsupply.com/-628-.html


----------



## turbosdad (Oct 31, 2008)

If i were a one dog owner that was training my own personal dog for a limited number of hunts per year, i would NOT buy or use a collar. there are enough methods to get a dog to pick up ducks and geese. Collars had not reached widespread use back in he eighties when i trained my first lab. The one thing that you have to ask yourself, "can I control my temper even when the dog refuses to listen and your session has been terrible?" If you cannot control yourself and have the ease of shocking your dog, it can get ugly fast.

I knew a trainer back then that used collars on all his dogs. They did everything he asked or commanded. BUT they looked and acted like weasels or rats in an electronic maze. If you have and will take the time to spend and teach your dog.....save the money and buy a new shotgun with your savings. heck we make mistakes, cut your dog some slack. They are not only having fun, they are doing what is bred deeply into them.


----------



## deke (Oct 5, 2004)

Muddskipper said:


> I have a one year old and have yet to put the shock collar on her ...
> 
> I want to di it under supervision of a professinal trainer
> 
> ...


Good advice. I used one with Deke, and think it is a great tool, but it must be used correctly, and most importantly, introduced correctly. Also think about having a pro force fetch you dog.


----------



## GunDog (Jun 6, 2006)

I have two labs, one hard headed as all get out and the other a push over. I have used the colar on both but for totally different reasons and times.

For the push over, if you look at him cross ways he falls apart...however on those long retrieves sometimes he needs a reminder that the whistle means turn around and look, and that is all that I use the collar for is that.

The harded headed dog wears hers all the time in the blind to help with her blind manners. She needs reminders that she is to sit, stay, and not jump around like a crazy possessed dog when other dogs are retrieving.


----------



## Rusty S (Apr 6, 2006)

Training a lab, one million ways, I use a short tether on there collar that I can step on to reinforce commands. One or two head snaps makes the attention span a little sharper, just ask the Terrorists. rs


----------



## S.O.B.(Salt On the Brain) (Jan 8, 2006)

My dogs (choc lab and GSP) think it is the "Go Somewhere Collar" and compete to see who gets to wear it.

My GSP never, EVER goes hunting without it. I've used it to save him from a hog,and from a couple rattlesnake bites. (He's already been bitten twice, though, by ones we didn't see) 

I use the beep as a callback button so I don't have to yell and alert game. I seldom have to use the shock feature, but it's good to have it in an emergency.

It can sure stop a problem before it can become a habit, too. 

Oh yeah, it helped with our skunk encounter, too. 

Lance.


----------



## wennis1 (Nov 5, 2008)

btreybig said:


> Never have had a collar on my dog. From the day I got him, I started working with him. If you train your dog right, theres no need for a collar what so ever. I know people who live by them and its just not for me. But ill say it again like above, its a great tool to have if used properly but can quickly ruin a dog if not.


I completely agree. We've trained all of our dogs from the book Waterdog and personal experience and never on a collar. They have all grown into great duck dogs. We are training a black lab now that is just over a year and he is being tough but we stuck with the routine and watched him blossom in the duck blind the last couple of weeks. He will be special.


----------



## Motownfire (Jun 25, 2007)

S.O.B.(Salt On the Brain) said:


> My dogs (choc lab and GSP) think it is the "Go Somewhere Collar" and compete to see who gets to wear it.
> 
> My GSP never, EVER goes hunting without it. I've used it to save him from a hog,and from a couple rattlesnake bites. (He's already been bitten twice, though, by ones we didn't see)
> 
> ...


Perfect example of positive uses for E Collars. My girl Dylan never leaves the house without her E Collar. I can hardly pick it up let alone if she hears the 5 beeps when it turns on, she goes nuts. She knows it's time to go do something fun. :bounce:


----------



## Lezz Go (Jun 27, 2006)

An old dog trainer once toldme that an e-collar is like a scalpal. In the hands of a surgeon, it's a great tool. It can also be the ruin of an otherwise good dog.

A $5 check cord is one of the best training tools to start with.


----------



## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

Lezz Go said:


> An old dog trainer once toldme that an e-collar is like a scalpal. In the hands of a surgeon, it's a great tool. It can also be the ruin of an otherwise good dog.
> 
> A $5 check cord is one of the best training tools to start with.


Amen! The collars work great if you know the dog and you know when and how to use it. If you don't know these things, you can do some real damage to what could be a great dog.


----------



## tycaden (Jan 9, 2009)

I have used them on Police K-9 and they worked well. You need to have a trainer with knowledge of e-collars train you on the use of it before using it. Tri-tronics makes a collar that also has an audio bell tone that i found to be just as usefull in training as using the electric to shock them. My suggestion is to try all types of positive reinforcement before going to the e-collar. IN the wrong hands and or on the wrong dog and they well be ruined.


----------

