# Serious Outboard Motor Title Question - Facts needed



## coachlaw (Oct 26, 2005)

Ok folks, I'm in the middle of a legal conundrum regarding what to do with a couple of outboard motors I own. If you read the TPWD regulations, it SEEMS that any outboard used in TX waters, on a TX registered boat, must be titled in Texas. 

I have heard many thoughts on this. Often it is conflicting information, but I cannot find any concrete legal answers on it.

I have a '91 Nissan 8 horse I use as a kicker on my boat and I have a little air cooled '86 1.5 horse Cruise 'N Carry I may use again one day. Both of these were purchased when I lived in La., which like most states, does not title outboard motors. 

Some have told me that under a certain horsepower, you do not have to have them titled, but I can't find any info on this.

On my boat registration card I carry with me when I'm on the water, it does not list the outboard title info, and therefore, how could I get in trouble having an untitled kicker if stopped by the warden?

So, do I have to go through the mess of trying to get them titled, or is it a non-issue, like I have heard from others. I'm looking for the collective wisdom of the 2cool universe to solve this dilemma. I want to be legal, but at the same time, I don't want to have to jump through unnecessary hoops. 

If there are any Gamewardens or other people in the know on the board, please post up and educate us. From the conversations I've had, there is a LOT of confusion over this issue.

I recently thought of buying another little outboard that was a good deal, but it was not titled, so I passed. Did I miss out?

On the flip side, last year I sold a couple that I had from when I lived in La. (My dad and I love little outboards. It is a sickness.) and they did not have titles, so I'm wondering if the buyers might have trouble in the future or is the Bill of Sale enough for them to get titled? (if necessary). 

Many thanks, Coach


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## coachlaw (Oct 26, 2005)

Dang, not a single answer so far. I must assume that others are just as confused as I am. - Coach


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## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

You can get paperwork for a certificate of lost tile from the TPWD. The only kicker is they have to be clean... not reported as stolen and have no liens against them.


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## speckle-catcher (May 20, 2004)

after 1994, all outboard motors are required to be titled

for each motor you need:
a PWD 143 form (application for motor title) http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/publications/pwdforms/media/pwd_144_a0900_outboard_motor_application.pdf
a PWD 504 (pencil tracing of serial number) http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/publications/pwdforms/media/pwd_0504_a0900_affidavit_of_facts_for_identification.pdf
a PWD 314 (affidavit of fact) http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/publications/pwdforms/media/pwd_314_a0900_affidavit_of_fact.pdf 
verification of no record from governmental agency

I don't know where to get the gov't record


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## Texxan1 (Dec 31, 2004)

As per TPWD.... To file for a lost title.. The previous owner must sign for it....

Now, if they were never titled there is another form you must submit... If you have a bill of sale your good, if you dont they will hassle you about it..

Most people do not title smaller motors. Its just not worth the hassle..

I have sold a few motors under 35hp and none have ever had titles.

I sold one to a 2cooler this year, a motor i got brand new that didnt come with a title etc.

It just depends on who is going to be buying it... 

My 2 cents

Thomas


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## speckle-catcher (May 20, 2004)

you can't file for a lost title if the motor is not titled. A bill of sale is enough to get a new title on a previously untitled motor. You just have to fill out the other forms.

if it were me - I would keep using your motors as is without title. If you decide to sell in the future, all the buyer would have to do is fill out the affidavit saying they purchased the motor from the original owner and that the motor was never titled. As long as the motor does not come up stolen when they got to apply for title, yer all good.


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## BritishSlave (Aug 17, 2004)

Here's the link to TP&W. What I see, you will need proof of ownership from La. I have had real good luck registering out of state purchased boats at the TP&W office at Greenspoint. Just be sure and take your checkbook! Don't try to do it by mail, you will go nuts before you finally go to one of their offices.

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/fishboat/boat/owner/buying_and_selling/


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## coachlaw (Oct 26, 2005)

Keep 'em coming guys. No worries about liens or them being stolen. Both were purchased new, but I don't have proof of ownership because in La. there is no documentation needed at all on motors. The receipts are long long gone. - Coach


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## midnighthoudini (Nov 6, 2005)

The only reason to title the engine is so the state can collect sales tax. If you intend to keep the engine, there is no need to register it in your name. The only problem arises whenever you decide to sell it and the new owner may want to have it in his name. I ran a late model engine for some time--not registered in my name. There is a particular year when all of this came into effect and if the engine was never titled in the beginning, there is no regulation concerning the titling of it now.

Call parks and wildlife here in Austin, they are very helpful.


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## Vee3 (Mar 15, 2005)

I bought a boat a couple of years ago out of Florida that does not title outboards. It was REAL easy to get a title. I filled out and signed and affidavit(that the engine is coming from a non-title state) that TP&W provided and attached a picture of the serial number for each engine A pencil tracing is also OK, but Johnson hides the SN in a recessed area. I payed the fee and got new titles in about 2 weeks. I went to the TP&W office in LaMarque to do it all in person, but I'm sure mail would be fine, too.


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## Sow Trout (Jun 28, 2004)

The TP&W office in Greenspoint is the place to go. Darla is the only extremely helpful person I have encountered in any of their offices. If it can be done she is the one to do it.


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## Gottagofishin (Dec 17, 2005)

From the TPWD website...

"Vessels that are currently registered and not titled must be titled at the time of transfer. Sailboats 14 feet and over will be registered and titled as owners become aware of these requirements. *Currently owned untitled outboard motors must be titled when transferred.* "

This means you don't need to title it until you sell it. Wht isn't clear is do you need to title it before you sell it, or does the buyer need to title it? My guess would be the latter.

The reason I say this is I bought a golf cart in Conroe for use in Galveston. Galveston County requires golf carts used on the street to be licensed which requires a title. Since golf carts aren't required to be titled everywhere, it didn't come with a title. I as the buyer had to apply for a title. The TPWD regulations on boats and motors generally mirror the TxDOT regulations on motor vehicles.

You should probably call and check though.


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## speckle-catcher (May 20, 2004)

since he moved from out of state - it could be argued by TPWD that the motor should have been titled after his move.

otherwise - it would not need to be titled until sale - and then the buyer would need to do it.

If the seller applies for title first - then you pay TPWD twice  the seller would get a title, and then the buyer would have to pay it again.


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## Vee3 (Mar 15, 2005)

The purpose of a title is to show ownership. This needs to be done when the outboard is brought into the state.


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## BritishSlave (Aug 17, 2004)

Sow Trout said:


> The TP&W office in Greenspoint is the place to go. Darla is the only extremely helpful person I have encountered in any of their offices. If it can be done she is the one to do it.


This is the best advise given!


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## pkennedy (Mar 13, 2006)

*Boat motor title info*

I was gifted a Cruise n' Carry motor about a year ago. It was gifted to the last owner 2 years before that. So...no receipts, forms, etc... I simply called Tx Parks and Wildlife regarding the paperwork. They were very accomodating and told me which forms & fields to fill out. End result? 3 forms and $25. Actually, the most painful process was trying to zoom the camera in close enough to take a picture of the serial number.

Maybe this is worth a different thread, but I noticed there are a few C&C owners out there? What do you do for parts other than wait for an EBay surprise?

Thanks


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## Papi Salem (Apr 8, 2005)

*Outboard Title Question-me too*

I am currently in a similar situation and have the same question. I was told by TP&W (LaMarque) that motors do need to be titled. However, the person I bought the motor from did not have a title. The initial owner bought the motor in LA. and never titled it although he lived in TX. If two previous owners did not get it done and had no problems then why should I. I am proceeding with getting the boat title only unless forced to do otherwise.


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## bearintex (Feb 7, 2006)

Hello there, fellow Angletonian! Want to get rid of one of the small ones? I am looking for a small (<10 HP) motor to use out at Harris Reservoir (private club). Did you grow up in Angleton? I graduated there in '89.


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## coachlaw (Oct 26, 2005)

Well, Here is what I ended up doing guys. Despite growing up near New Orleans, I'm a pillar of the community kind of guy. I didn't get much direction here on the board. It almost seemed like everyone was afraid to say something. I filled out the outboard motor title form for them and filled out the affidavit and attested that I am the owner and they do not have titles because La is like most states, and does not title outboards. I took pics of the serial numbers and also took rubbings of them. I turned it all in and they hornswaggled me for some pretty serious bucks. I think it was $35 per motor. I walked out with an empty wallet, but a clear conscience. 

As far as the Cruise N Carry motors, I think that merits a thread a little later when I have more time. 

bear, glad to cyber meet you. As noted earlier, I'm a Coonarse. I became a Texan in 2000 and I made it to Angleton a couple years ago. I bought a house here and don't plan on ever leaving. I teach and coach at the Intermediate School. Coach Pounds is one of my bosses. I'm sure you probably got a boot in your butt from him at sometime in the past. Everyone around here has those stories. - Coach


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## bearintex (Feb 7, 2006)

coachlaw said:


> bear, glad to cyber meet you. As noted earlier, I'm a Coonarse. I became a Texan in 2000 and I made it to Angleton a couple years ago. I bought a house here and don't plan on ever leaving. I teach and coach at the Intermediate School. Coach Pounds is one of my bosses. I'm sure you probably got a boot in your butt from him at sometime in the past. Everyone around here has those stories. - Coach


Coach Pounds, yep I certainly do remember him. He was pretty tough on us, but in a good way. We'll have to meet in face sometime. A belated welcome to Angleton to you. Whereabouts in town did you buy a house? I'm on the South side, close to Philips Road & 288B.


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## BritishSlave (Aug 17, 2004)

Here's the reply from TP&W to the motor title question:

*From:* BoatReg [mailto:[email protected]] 
*Sent:* Monday, October 16, 2006 10:20 AM
*To:* Sheppard, William R
*Subject:* FW: Web Site - E-MAIL REPLY REQUESTED - Boat Registration and Titles



Dear Boater,​
No you must transfer the title and the purchaser must pay sales tax. The owner of record will need to complete a form PWD 144 to transfer the outboard motor. The owner of record will also need to sign over the title to the buyer. The fees will include a $25 title fee and 6.25% sales tax on the purchase price.​
The completed forms and fees can then be submitted to TPWD for processing. You may either walk them into your local TPWD field office or mail them to our Austin headquarters. Below are links to our forms and office locations. Please see our website, email or call our boat information line at 1-800-262-8755 for more information.​
Thanks​
Gerald Averill​
Boat Registration​
http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/fishboat/boat/forms/​
http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/fishboat/boat/owner/office_locations/​​​​​​​
You must have a title before the sale.​
​


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