# How to Screw Up a Good Tarpon Trip



## Scott

There are a lot of guys on this board talking about starting to tarpon fish. There are also some "_professional_" guides/part-time and offshore/tarpon guides who I have seen screwing life up for the rest of us lately. So that is where this is coming from... hopefully, they read this board and realize it is you that I am pointing this toward.

First, if you are serious about tarpon fishing or are professional guide and advertise charters for tarpon fishing and don't have a trolling motor, with maybe one rare exception, you should stop trying to tarpon fish and stop advertising tarpon trips (just MHO)..... OR get a trolling motor. If you have an inboard engine, you are exempt from this statement. It takes a really really really good and experienced guide with tens of years of experience to operate an outboard tarpon boat without a trolling motor. In fact, I can only think of one that I can comfortably say can do it effectively. It requires a lot of drifting and setting up for a drift and a different technique than most use these days.

Second, watch what you are doing and use common sense. If you are running up the beach and there is a tarpon boat in front of you that is trolling with a guy standing on the bow with a casting rod, don't run at full throttle within a hundred yards off the bow of the other boat... you shoudn't run within 300 yards of it. Duh, he's on fish.

Third, if you are approaching one boat or ten boats who are obviously tarpon fishing... don't run up on them on the big motors. Turn off your engine and get on your trolling motors (remember, the ones you are supposed to own) before getting even remotely close... and idle into that position for a long time before getting on the trolling motors. He likely is not on the ONLY school in the area. So keep your eyes open and try to find your own fish.

Fourth, if you see tarpon, don't run right up on them with your big motor and cast. Use your trolling motor to approach a school (remember, the trolling motor your boat is supposed to have).

Get my point here - YOU NEED A TROLLING MOTOR TO TARPON FISH WITH AN OUTBOARD BOAT AND DO IT EFFECTIVELY - unless you have got a LOT of experience otherwise and are a true tarpon expert !!!!

Finally, put your VHF radio on scan and listen. That way somebody can stop you before you run over a school you don't know about or haven't seen.

Later today or tonight, I'll post the Ten Commandments of tarpon fishing on my forums page - go over there and read it if you have any concerns about your tarpon fishing ability.

You can have twenty boats fishing for tarpon in an area that are all doing it right and everybody can catch fish. You throw one guy in the mix who doesn't do it right and none of the boats will catch fish. That's why this is important. One guy can screw it up for everbody.

One caveat to all this - that's not to say we can't all make mistakes. We do. I've even run over fish I didn't see or know were somewhere when I got on scene in an area. That's why VHF communication is so important. Nobody is 100% perfect or does it right all the time. If you at least try to use common sense and what is outlined above, you'll keep the screw-ups to a minimum.

Finally, realize inboard boats are a different breed when it comes to tarpon fishing. We can debate the outboard/inboard issue all day long.. but after fishing an inboard and on outboards for almost thirty years, I know of what I speak. Tarpon reaction to inboards, even when they run over the school is often very different. We can debate why all day long but I've seen it too often with my own eyes. Nothing wrong with outboards, you just have to do things a little differently. Finally, I'll say this - a trolling motor used right and trolling baits, can out-fish an inboard boat on some days... it just can.... the difference between the two is simply a matter of preference for the angler and a matter of adequate battery juice.


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## Capt.Thomas White

I kinda think this can be applied to most all sight cast fishing scenarios.


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## Hunter

Third, if you are approaching one boat or ten boats who are obviously tarpon fishing... don't run up on them on the big motors. Turn off your engine and get on your trolling motors (remember, the ones you are supposed to own) before getting even remotely close... and idle into that position for a long time before getting on the trolling motors. He likely is not on the ONLY school in the area. So keep your eyes open and try to find your own fish.

This is a key point. We have worked schools of fish with 6 or more boats without any problem on a number of occasions. *Be patient*, figure out the current and wind, then get in position. Quietly approach and you'll get your shot.


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## CAPSIZED

Question? How do the newer 4 strokes affect the Tarpon. They are very quiet. I ask because I have caught Tarpon with my outboard running several times. Drifting shad and **** pops bumping in and out of gear. Im not trying to start an argument... just interested in others experiences. I have several friends that tarpon guide and I agree that if you don't know what you are doing... just stay away from them.


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## TrueblueTexican

*I dunno Scott*

I am a "black hole" when I tarpon fish - and I don't own a trolling motor nor will I ever, I can tell you from thirty years experience that a trolling motor also puts out a low frequency noise in the water - I'd just as soon not see anyone coming toward us running any electronic device.

We always try to determine where the school is going and get ahead with wind , currents, and drift socks --

We also CHUM to keep them around - running motors of any kind will cause the bait the fish are following or path they are going on to change - almost always out of casting distance

We mainly fish live pogies, or **** pops set in a rod holder - and catch our fair share of 150+ fish --

I can count on one hand the times someone has busted up fish we were on, and its always from ignorance -

Outboards , inboards, or trolling motors ALL put out NOISE un-natural to the environment - you can't single one out or promote the other - because depending on the day, what the fish are feeding on (or not feeding on) they react differently to all three motor styles -

Basically the premise is right - learn drifting boat control and know which way currents and winds affect your boat - get ahead of the fish by a couple of hundred yards and go SILENT - be patient and wait your shot - if folks would do that odds re they will put a few 200# fish in the air --


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## Hunter

Four strokes generally run fish off in Texas. I have had Suzuki's and Yamaha's and seen it happen when resetting a drift, bumping a school I didn't know was there.

I have never seen an inboard boat with a straight shaft spook a school of tarpon in >20' of water, and I've spent hundreds of hours running and fishing on inboards over the last several years.

Now I will also add that in Florida, they run outboards around schools of fish with some success. I can't explain that. I can only tell you that in Texas, outboards spook fish in my experience. If they didn't, I (and others) wouldn't spend large sums to set up an inboard just for tarpon fishing.

I've also caught tarpon trolling with an outboard in Costa Rica. The difference there, in my opinion, was that we were fishing in a remote area with no pressure and trolling just outside a pounding surf that probably masked the noise.


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## Scott

CAPSIZED said:


> Question? How do the newer 4 strokes affect the Tarpon. They are very quiet. I ask because I have caught Tarpon with my outboard running several times. Drifting shad and **** pops bumping in and out of gear. Im not trying to start an argument... just interested in others experiences. I have several friends that tarpon guide and I agree that if you don't know what you are doing... just stay away from them.


Four strokes are quite above the water, but not beneath. Lots of factors go into whether they can be on and work... the odds are against you.

I trolled with a four stroke one time out of necessity. On that day, 35 tarpon got jumped by other boats, doing it right. My count was 0 trolling. Enough said. Buy a trolling motor !!!


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## marc

I completely agree with Scott and Hunter. IMHO The only reason outboards work in Florida (Boca Grande) is because they are scaring them into the deepest part of the pass so that the odds are better for hooking up on their vertical jigs. Ask any resident Boca Grande are guide and they would agree. Outboards spook fish. They work in the canals of Miami and Lauderdale due to the fact that those fish are constantly hearing boats run over them.

It is my observation that Inboards actually attract fish. Outboards spook them


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## Scott

TrueblueTexican said:


> I am a "black hole" when I tarpon fish - and I don't own a trolling motor nor will I ever, I can tell you from thirty years experience that a trolling motor also puts out a low frequency noise in the water - I'd just as soon not see anyone coming toward us running any electronic device.
> 
> We always try to determine where the school is going and get ahead with wind , currents, and drift socks --
> 
> We also CHUM to keep them around - running motors of any kind will cause the bait the fish are following or path they are going on to change - almost always out of casting distance
> 
> We mainly fish live pogies, or **** pops set in a rod holder - and catch our fair share of 150+ fish --
> 
> I can count on one hand the times someone has busted up fish we were on, and its always from ignorance -
> 
> Outboards , inboards, or trolling motors ALL put out NOISE un-natural to the environment - you can't single one out or promote the other - because depending on the day, what the fish are feeding on (or not feeding on) they react differently to all three motor styles -
> 
> Basically the premise is right - learn drifting boat control and know which way currents and winds affect your boat - get ahead of the fish by a couple of hundred yards and go SILENT - be patient and wait your shot - if folks would do that odds re they will put a few 200# fish in the air --


This is old school both in technique and thought process. There are circumstances where anything, even the hull of the boat slapping against the water will scare tarpon.

I can say categorically from 30 years of experience in Texas, Louisiana, Florida, Costa Rica and Nicaragua that a trolling motor is a good tool to assist you in tarpon fishing and if you run an outboard (4 stroke or otherwise) and don't have one, you should get one if you want to have flexibility in fishing technique and effectiveness.

As far as inboards go, similarly, there are situations where anything will spook a tarpon... having said that, having thirty years of experience in an inboard boat tarpon fishing and having spend hundreds of hours fishing in the inboard tarpon fishing capital of the world for 25 of those years, inboards work, work well and don't generally spook fish.

I have sat on a bar in 6 feet of water with my engine in idle (my boat draws three feet) and had a hundred happy tarpon daisy chaining right under the boat. I have had 150+ pound tarpon swim up (more than one at a time) and swim behind my swim-platform while trolling. Like pets, they come up and hang out for a couple minutes, nose into the prop wash three feet or less behind the boat. That's not spooking a tarpon, it's attracting it. I can tell you of many an inboard guys who have had the EXACT SAME EXPERIENCE.

I posted what I posted based on a great deal of experience over thirty years and thousands of hours in outboards and inboard boats all over the western tarpon world.

But, you can ignore me if you'd like. I can promise you your success will be better if you do and you won't get yelled at on the water or a bunch of experienced tarpon guys ticked at you either.

You're call.

Finally - this statement "Outboards , inboards, or trolling motors ALL put out NOISE un-natural to the environment - you can't single one out or promote the other" is just *not accurate*!!


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## CAPSIZED

Great info, keep it coming. I guess you have to go with what works for your area.. They probably associate the inboards with food this time of year. A few years ago I rolled up on a shrimp boat trying to put my friends on some sharks. We scooped up some of their bycatch and threw it back with a hook in it. We caught 2 tarpon in the 120# range. Ive also done the Florida thing. We caught them in the everglades trolling Bombers behind a loud 2 stroke in 5' of water.


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## TrueblueTexican

*You are right*



Scott said:


> This is old school both in technique and thought process. There are circumstances where anything, even the hull of the boat slapping against the water will scare tarpon.
> 
> I can say categorically from 30 years of experience in Texas, Louisiana, Florida, Costa Rica and Nicaragua that a trolling motor is a good tool to assist you in tarpon fishing and if you run an outboard (4 stroke or otherwise) and don't have one, you should get one if you want to have flexibility in fishing technique and effectiveness.
> 
> As far as inboards go, similarly, there are situations where anything will spook a tarpon... having said that, having thirty years of experience in an inboard boat tarpon fishing and having spend hundreds of hours fishing in the inboard tarpon fishing capital of the world for 25 of those years, inboards work, work well and don't generally spook fish.
> 
> I have sat on a bar in 6 feet of water with my engine in idle (my boat draws three feet) and had a hundred happy tarpon daisy chaining right under the boat. I have had 150+ pound tarpon swim up (more than one at a time) and swim behind my swim-platform while trolling. Like pets, they come up and hang out for a couple minutes, nose into the prop wash three feet or less behind the boat. That's not spooking a tarpon, it's attracting it. I can tell you of many an inboard guys who have had the EXACT SAME EXPERIENCE.
> 
> I posted what I posted based on a great deal of experience over thirty years and thousands of hours in outboards and inboard boats all over the western tarpon world.
> 
> But, you can ignore me if you'd like. I can promise you your success will be better if you do and you won't get yelled at on the water or a bunch of experienced tarpon guys ticked at you either.
> 
> You're call.
> 
> Finally - this statement "Outboards , inboards, or trolling motors ALL put out NOISE un-natural to the environment - you can't single one out or promote the other" is just *not accurate*!!


I am OLD School works for me -


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## Scott

TrueblueTexican said:


> I am OLD School works for me -


That system certainly works and works well.


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## RLove

Outboards are for cruising open water to find bait. Once the bait is found trolling motors help the boat get setup to make an educated dead quiet drift. Then cut it OFF. It takes longer but you will be rewarded with more consistent action. 

Chasing down tarpon with trolling motors only teaches the fish another type of pressure. These are smart fish that live for decades. 

Resist the temptation of catching your first tarpon by chasing it down. You won't. It only adds to your frustration and ruins the fishery.

Silence is critical


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## SharkBait >*)\\\><(

probably why so many kayakers hook crazy fish, we are like ghosts out there..


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## Capt. Steve

I guess I'm the offshore/tarpon guide thats screwing up your life. Maybe I did run over some fish you saw but hey you were headed inshore so I turned offshore then all the sudden you turn offshore and throw your hands in the air. I did what I could for you and if thats not good enough then I don't no what to tell you.


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## dbarham

Popcorn time


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## Scott

No popcorn. PM sent.


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## SiteCast

*Really?*

I have to say i had a really good laugh....here we have people debating whether inboard or outboard motors are screwing up our (very limited and ever more crowded) Texas tarpon fishing....on the largest fishing website in the state. Wow.

Yeah, it's those dang outboards! Or wait, is it the inboards? Oh, wait, maybe it's just all the freaking boats out for their first time, trolling on Internet wisdom...


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## Fired Up

Must be a Texas thing - fished Bean Point (AMI in Florida) in June with outboard boats going every which way and we were all still bowing up on passing schools. The pass is only around 20' deep.


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## lapesca67

*Right on Scott*

Keep the proper boating etiquette coming Scott. There are two classes of fishermen, regardless of what you are fishing for:
1. Those that are inexperienced when it comes to operating a boat when others are clearly fishing an area. They don't know any better and a little guidance might make them better fishermen (if they listen).
2. Those that just don't give a **** about anyone but themselves, and no amount of advice will change their behavior.


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## silverking32

Scott is 100% right about trolling motors in texas! i personally have been fishing out of galveston and other parts of texas for tarpon for many years and if you have an outboard enging 99% of the time you will spook the fish and they will not feed. I swear if there is one more idiot running their outboards to try and get in front of a school..... All you need is a trolling motor and troll rods and cast at the school and you will catch plenty of fish. These new people that just think they can go out there and catch a tarpon need to just stay home cause they are ruining it for the people that actually know how to catch fish.


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## marc

silverking32 said:


> These new people that just think they can go out there and catch a tarpon need to just stay home cause they are ruining it for the people that actually know how to catch fish.


No, nobody needs to stay home. They need to pay attention. Lots of great information is freely given on this site for how to catch a lot of tarpon by a few veteran tarpon anglers. I learned so much by listening the guys who know and using their tactics. It has payed off for me to listen and respect their experience.

This reminded of a saying about a young bull and the old bull up on a hill.....

So... a fast outboard and an old inboard were sitting in the pass. They saw a huge school of tarpon just past the bar. The fast outboard looks at the old inboard and says "let's run out their and catch us one of those tarpon". The old inboard looked at the school of fish and says to the fast outboard "Naaa son... let's slow troll out there and catch them all".


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## gonzo

*lmao*

ditto wot he said......


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## Hunter

marc said:


> No, nobody needs to stay home. They need to pay attention. Lots of great information is freely given on this site for how to catch a lot of tarpon by a few veteran tarpon anglers. I learned so much by listening the guys who know and using their tactics. It has payed off for me to listen and respect their experience.
> 
> This reminded of a saying about a young bull and the old bull up on a hill.....
> 
> So... a fast outboard and an old inboard were sitting in the pass. They saw a huge school of tarpon just past the bar. The fast outboard looks at the old inboard and says "let's run out their and catch us one of those tarpon". The old inboard looked at the school of fish and says to the fast outboard "Naaa son... let's slow troll out there and catch them all".


Love it.


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## seadave

lapesca67 said:


> Keep the proper boating etiquette coming Scott. There are two classes of fishermen, regardless of what you are fishing for:
> 1. Those that are inexperienced when it comes to operating a boat when others are clearly fishing an area. They don't know any better and a little guidance might make them better fishermen (if they listen).
> 2. Those that just don't give a **** about anyone but themselves, and no amount of advice will change their behavior.


Ditto.....

Money can by you a nice boat, but not the common sense or etiquette needed to run it. Just go to POC on the weekends.... Horrible.


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## Trouthappy

Money can't buy you love, common sense or fishing etiquette. It can however buy you a big house in POC with surveillance cameras and a big flashy boat with too much horsepower.


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## Huachele

"Money can't buy you love, common sense or fishing etiquette. It can however buy you a big house in POC with surveillance cameras and a big flashy boat with too much horsepower"

Nor can it buy back the time you chop off someones fish....

We all screw up. No one is performing brain surgery out there. Relax.


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## Scott

Huachele said:


> Nor can it buy back the time you chop off someones fish....
> 
> We all screw up. No one is performing brain surgery out there. Relax.


Agreed.... common sense is a good rule. Often there are two sides to every situation. There are things everybody can do to avoid problems. Simple things, like don't cast a line within four feet abeam of another boat. If you do, you're likely going to get cut-off if you hook up and the fish runs under the other boat. While boats shouldn't necessarily be that close, reality is that there are lots of reasons that can happen. i.e. the other boat is clearing another boat that is already hooked up... or it just happens. Happened a couple weeks ago to me. Hunter was a little over casting distance trolling the opposite direction as we all worked a good school of fish. We were passing each other and he jumped one that headed my way. I sped up to ensure that my lines came up higher in the water column and cleared his. They did and he landed his fish. Cost me a hook-up but it was the right thing to do. Common sense doesn't mean things won't happen... but it helps to try and avoid them - for sure.


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## Coconut Groves

This entire thread can be true for nearly any type of fishing. Can't tell you how many times I've polled flats for reds to watch an airboat go by, or someone other boat run all the way up to the shoreline and start poling.

Take your time - once a fish is spooked, it's spooked for a while. No sense in running full charge up on them.


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## SiteCast

*Stating the obvious*

With all due respect - the main culprit for screwing up tarpon fishing for the rest of us is right there in the mirror. Keep posting specifics on the internet and then complain about idiots screwing up your trip. Mmmmmmmmm.....

Seriously?


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## Scott

SiteCast said:


> With all due respect - the main culprit for screwing up tarpon fishing for the rest of us is right there in the mirror. Keep posting specifics on the internet and then complain about idiots screwing up your trip. Mmmmmmmmm.....
> 
> Seriously?


With all due respect ..... It is the people who try it and don't have enough information to have a clue how to do it right. I have fished tarpon all around the western Atlantic. It is not the number of boats that usually screw things up as much as it is the one guy that doesn't know what he is doing wrong. Trust me - Texas tarpon are not a secret and not a secret that can somehow be permanently kept. To think otherwise is naive. There is a lot kept under wraps.


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## Fishing911

Guys roll hard and fish hard and take this original post for what it is. It's a friggin' post. If it helps you great. If it comes of egotistical and humorous like I found it. Then enjoy the humor.


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## SiteCast

I could not disagree more strongly. You just stated that the number of boats is not the problem (usually). I may not have near the tarpon experience as you, but I have fished for them on both sides of the gulf and the carribean. More importantly, I have fished, and fished hard, for all manner of saltwater species most of my life.

Whether it is tarpon, trout, reds, or whatever, the single common denominator to almost all of the many outstanding trips I have logged in my career is one thing. It's not moon phase, tide, season, water level, water temp, wind, or any of the many other variables commonly discussed. Good trips can be had in adverse conditions, and often are.

Simply put, it's fishing pressure. If you don't think there is a correlation between the number of boats/ waders/ trollers/ drifters etc in eyesight and the success of your trip, we must be fishing on different planets.

If you don't think there is a correlation between the posts on this board and fishing pressure, then I would tell you that we should just agree to disagree, because logic is not an element to this discussion.

I think talking tactics, techniques, weather, etc., is all fine and good. However, the cardinal sin is the free giveaway on locations. And, it's not "spots"...it's the discussion of areas. The open gulf isn't really an issue...but the shallower the water, the worse the problem.

It's great that so many folks want to start tarpon fishing. Talking about specific stretches of surf, the best jetties, the best passes, and oh, worst of all the few bays in TX that occasionally hold tarpon on the open Internet...and then wondering why some idiot blasts through the fish....?

It's simply a numbers thing. The number of people saltwater fishing will only continue to increase exponentially. FL tarpon fishing has already suffered because of this. I am not talking about Boca Grande either...i am talking about throwing flys and lures at fish you can see. I can't tell you how many spots we could NOT even try to fish this year on the many multi day trips we did in FL this year because there were too many boats...

In TX, it's only going to get worse. The one bay system in TX that held a somewhat reliable sightcasting opportunity is no longer really viable because of...too many boats.

Nothing against new people trying their hand, its a free country and we all have the same access. It's no secret, you are correct. All your advice on conducting your boat is spot on.

I just seem to recall that a lot fewer people new all of this info a few short years ago. It's not the idiots...there will always be idiots around to screw up a trip...just don't know that they used to have such an easy time finding me.



Scott said:


> With all due respect ..... It is the people who try it and don't have enough information to have a clue how to do it right. I have fished tarpon all around the western Atlantic. It is not the number of boats that usually screw things up as much as it is the one guy that doesn't know what he is doing wrong. Trust me - Texas tarpon are not a secret and not a secret that can somehow be permanently kept. To think otherwise is naive. There is a lot kept under wraps.


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## Scott

SiteCast said:


> The one bay system in TX that held a somewhat reliable sightcasting opportunity is no longer really viable because of...too many boats.
> 
> I just seem to recall that a lot fewer people new all of this info a few short years ago. It's not the idiots...there will always be idiots around to screw up a trip...just don't know that they used to have such an easy time finding me.


Couple things - as I recall, the bay of which you speak has never been discussed on the internet by me in any sufficient detail to have anybody mess with the spot - others have done that - second, there is an environmental factor involved here (which if I discuss, I give away too much information). That one factor has caused the largest decline in the numbers you are seeing. I have fished that spot with ten boats in there - doing it right - and guess what, five fish got caught among ten boats and lots of happy slow rolling fish.

There are a lot of people out there that talk about tarpon fishing in that area... the secret has been out since at least 2003 and really before that.

Finally, the other thing that is leading to much of this interest is gas prices and snapper regulations. A lot more guys want to do something else. That interest will fade - few are willing to stick it out and really learn and put in the time it takes. But if they do try it, I'd rather they learn to do it right. If they did, they wouldn't be running over your spot, screwing things up. That's my point from the beginning.


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## Scott

SiteCast said:


> Simply put, it's fishing pressure. If you don't think there is a correlation between the number of boats/ waders/ trollers/ drifters etc in eyesight and the success of your trip, we must be fishing on different planets.


This is an overstatement. I have fished in places with twenty boats on tarpon in a relatively small area and we've all caught fish (and I'm not talking about Boca Grande Pass). I've also fished areas with three boats on tarpon and one screwed it up for everybody. In a non-take fishery like tarpon, pressure is "a" factor, but the biggest factor is the "I ain't got a clue how not to screw it up" factor.

Boats tarpon fishing in an area that work together and know how to do it right actually can increase success by all. More eyes on the water, more chances to find and stay on fish. Throw one guy who is not communicating and doesn't know what he is doing, and nobody catches fish.


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## Fishing911

This is still cracking me up. Do you have any clue how you come off? And if you do know you're actually ok with it. WOW. 

I didn't realize I needed a secret handshake to fish for Tarpon in TX and I've been successfully doing it for 25 years. I think I'll consider putting all my logs, maps, and photo's, on the internet to share.


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## marc

911 you registered yesterday....

post number 1

"Guys roll hard and fish hard and take this original post for what it is. It's a friggin' post. If it helps you great. If it comes of egotistical and humorous like I found it. Then enjoy the humor"

post number 2

"This is still cracking me up. Do you have any clue how you come off? And if you do know you're actually ok with it. WOW.

I didn't realize I needed a secret handshake to fish for Tarpon in TX and I've been successfully doing it for 25 years. *I think I'll consider putting all my logs, maps, and photo's, on the internet to share*"

Are you the same guy who just did that not too long ago and got banned?


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## Fishing911

marc said:


> 911 you registered yesterday....
> 
> post number 1
> 
> "Guys roll hard and fish hard and take this original post for what it is. It's a friggin' post. If it helps you great. If it comes of egotistical and humorous like I found it. Then enjoy the humor"
> 
> post number 2
> 
> "This is still cracking me up. Do you have any clue how you come off? And if you do know you're actually ok with it. WOW.
> 
> I didn't realize I needed a secret handshake to fish for Tarpon in TX and I've been successfully doing it for 25 years. *I think I'll consider putting all my logs, maps, and photo's, on the internet to share*"
> 
> Are you the same guy who just did that not too long ago and got banned?


I've never been banned from anything in my life. I'm active on some other Tarpon and fly fishing sites, but I've only perused 2cool over the years. I've never had a desire to post on this forum until reading some of the recent activity in the Tarpon section. I find it to be absolutely hysterical at times from some of the arrogance I see. It's nothing personal to you and I'm actually not including you at all. In fact I enjoyed the analogy you used. This is just way too serious for me. That's all. Happy fishing.


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## lil mambo

Fishing911 said:


> *I've never been banned from anything in my life. *I'm active on some other Tarpon and fly fishing sites, but I've only perused 2cool over the years. I've never had a desire to post on this forum until reading some of the recent activity in the Tarpon section. I find it to be absolutely hysterical at times from some of the arrogance I see. It's nothing personal to you and I'm actually not including you at all. In fact I enjoyed the analogy you used. This is just way too serious for me. That's all. Happy fishing.


What a secluded and boring life you must lead. Bet you sat on the first row in school and brought the teacher an apple every day. If the latter is true you owe scott an apple.


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## Fishing911

lil mambo said:


> What a secluded and boring life you must lead. Bet you sat on the first row in school and brought the teacher an apple every day. If the latter is true you owe scott an apple.


I think I'll pass on sucking up to the "teacher". If I was locked in a classroom under those circumstances I would be bored to death with the lecture. I will just enjoy the entertainment as I see it. Although I do almost feel like I need a permission slip to fish for Tarpon in Texas, but I'm not a rule follower.


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## Scott

Fishing911 said:


> I've never been banned from anything in my life. I'm active on some other Tarpon and fly fishing sites, but I've only perused 2cool over the years. I've never had a desire to post on this forum until reading some of the recent activity in the Tarpon section. I find it to be absolutely hysterical at times from some of the arrogance I see. It's nothing personal to you and I'm actually not including you at all. In fact I enjoyed the analogy you used. This is just way too serious for me. That's all. Happy fishing.


Really? Maybe, but I find it odd that you use the same language as a guy that went by the username Captain Stansel that was banned by Mont. He also attacked me and repetitively called me arrogant but even more telling, he PM'd me the following sentence before he was banned - " I don't care about some secret little network and secret handshake that you had nothing to do with." Then you make this post here above - "I didn't realize I needed a secret handshake to fish for Tarpon in TX....." Odd the exact same strange language about a "secret handshake" would be used. Captain Stansel also made the same threat about posting maps and details and then did it causing him to get banned. So either this is just a very strange coincidence or you sir are the same person despite your claim you've never been banned. I'll let everybody else decide based on the facts. If you're not the same person then my apologies and I guess you are the victim of a really strange coincidence.

If you have a problem with me, might I suggest you pick up the phone and call me instead of hiding anonymously behind a user name and personally attacking me, someone who you really don't know. Google me, you'll get my office number. Call me. I'd be more than happy to talk tarpon with you and put a voice and real name behind Fishing 911.


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## lil mambo

I still think he owes you an apple.


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## Fishing911

Scott said:


> Really? Maybe, but I find it odd that you use the same language as a guy that went by the username Captain Stansel that was banned by Mont. He also attacked me and repetitively called me arrogant but even more telling, he PM'd me the following sentence before he was banned - " I don't care about some secret little network and secret handshake that you had nothing to do with." Then you make this post here above - "I didn't realize I needed a secret handshake to fish for Tarpon in TX....." Odd the exact same strange language about a "secret handshake" would be used. Captain Stansel also made the same threat about posting maps and details and then did it causing him to get banned. So either this is just a very strange coincidence or you sir are the same person despite your claim you've never been banned. I'll let everybody else decide based on the facts. If you're not the same person then my apologies and I guess you are the victim of a really strange coincidence.
> 
> If you have a problem with me, might I suggest you pick up the phone and call me instead of hiding anonymously behind a user name and personally attacking me, someone who you really don't know. Google me, you'll get my office number. Call me. I'd be more than happy to talk tarpon with you and put a voice and real name behind Fishing 911.


It isn't my concern if you have or had issues with someone else nor do I wish it to make it my business. Iâ€™m very aware of the detailed map that was briefly posted and thatâ€™s why I said what I said as a joke. That was probably a little immature on my part, but it still makes me laugh as I have a very warped sense of humor. Iâ€™m not about to give up years of family logs to post on the internet, but Iâ€™m happy to share them in conversation with professional anglers in the community and with any well respected person that takes an interest in one of our best natural resources. I like to teach and assist anglers in that manner, not tell people what to do. But thatâ€™s just me and we all have our own styles. As far as the â€œsecret handshakeâ€, thatâ€™s a long standing phrase used by locals for decades to make fun of the weekend warriors from Houston, Austin, and San Antonio. Itâ€™s been going on as long as I can remember and itâ€™s just our way of having a little fun and yes Iâ€™m one of those guys from Houston, but Iâ€™ve spent Â½ of my 46 years in POC/Aransas Bay fishing and spending time with friends and family so I get the stories and perception.

Furthermore, Iâ€™m not hiding behind anything. I simply do not wish to â€œtalk tarponâ€ with you. I believe that would be a huge waste of my time. Your style of communication is what it is. I just donâ€™t care for it, but again, I welcome the entertainment. So I applaud you for your efforts, sir.


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## Irish_Jig

Well, even though I have no dog in this fight, I can't keep reading this thread without making the following comments. First of all, I caught my first tarpon 53 years ago this summer, which by 911's own admission, was 28 years before he ever saw a tarpon. If I've learned anything over the years, it's that you never stop learning about these fish. Without asking, I believe Scott would agree with that...after all, he's out there tagging fish for research, etc.

But once you think that you know it all, that's when you cross the line over to arrogance. 

That being said, I read Scott's posts here and all I see is someone trying to educate based on his experience. When I read 911's posts, all I read is someone who knows it all and that talking tarpon is "a huge waste of (his) time". That friends...is the height of arrogance!


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## Fishing911

Irish_Jig said:


> Well, even though I have no dog in this fight, I can't keep reading this thread without making the following comments. First of all, I caught my first tarpon 53 years ago this summer, which by 911's own admission, was 28 years before he ever saw a tarpon. If I've learned anything over the years, it's that you never stop learning about these fish. Without asking, I believe Scott would agree with that...after all, he's out there tagging fish for research, etc.
> 
> But once you think that you know it all, that's when you cross the line over to arrogance.
> 
> That being said, I read Scott's posts here and all I see is someone trying to educate based on his experience. When I read 911's posts, all I read is someone who knows it all and that talking tarpon is "a huge waste of (his) time". That friends...is the height of arrogance!


I welcome your thoughts and opinions. There is perception and there is reality. The reality is I haven't once tried or attempt to tell anybody how to do anything whatsoever on this forum. That isn't my style at all. So in that aspect youâ€™re incorrect. I just registered on this site a couple of days ago, but I have been reading post for years. When I say â€œitâ€™s a waste of my timeâ€ I donâ€™t think Iâ€™m being arrogant. Iâ€™m simply stating I have no interest in having â€œtarpon talkâ€ with him. He offered and I declined. I think it would be a waste of his time as well. Based on a couple of other post and all the PMâ€™s Iâ€™ve received Iâ€™m certainly not the only one that feels that way. Again, I find it more comical than anything else. Thereâ€™s a lot more to it in the tarpon community than you realize involving personalities. I poked a little fun at the post and from my perspective based on the tone of the post it was deserving. Just my thoughts.


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## Scott

If my original post was direct - it was meant to be. I was trying to make a point. Sugar coating it in the past hasn't worked. I was frustrated and my frustration was vented in a direct, to the point post. I tend to be that way at times... personality flaw. 

I am absolutely the first person to say I don't know it all. Nobody does... that's what is cool about tarpon fishing... it is always a puzzle we are trying to put together and better understand. As far as fishing ability, there are guys that cast to tarpon way better than me.. lots of them.. ..in fact in the last week, I told somebody in a crowd of people that he was the best I had ever seen at casting to tarpon. There are a lot more folks than me that have way more hours than me chasing Texas tarpon. There are a lot that are way better at finding them and catching them than me. Even guys who have not been chasing them as long as I have but have surpassed me on the learning curve. Some are my friends, some I don't consider friends anymore... and that is not by my choice. 

On this board, you have to sometimes preface a comment with your experiences, otherwise, people don't have context for your opinion. I've been tarpon fishing since the mid 1980's. By my count that's about thirty years. I remember tarpon fishing off Galveston when the only two boats out there were me and Captain Mike Williams. I've tarpon fished from 150 miles up a Nicaraguan river to the coast of Miami and lots of places inbetween. Spent countless hours on the beaches of Boca Grande and even more hours in West Delta back when. I can state with almost absolute certainty that I was the first person to troll a ****-pop in Texas. So, no, I don't know everything, but I do have a lot of experience. If you think that is arrogance, all I can point you to is a quote from Richard Sherman (who I am not a fan of, but he did say something that makes a lot of sense once) "Funny how people confuse Confidence with Arrogance... Most of those people don't know the meaning... "

Having said that, heck, on any given day, you may out fish me too Fishing911.. if you did out fish me, I'd be the first one to buy you a beer and tell you congratulations.  Because that's what it is about... but you'll never know me and certainly don't have a right to judge me if you don't get to know me.

Most people on this board know what I do to help others. I give talks at CCA meetings, schedule events and when somebody asks a direct question, I give them a direct answer. When I started tarpon fishing in Texas, I went two years with only one fish. I learned the hard way. If somebody wants some advice, I am a PM or a phone call away. I'm not going to give up the keys to the house, but I'm going to certainly do what I can to help you build your own.

So if all that is arrogance to you... well, guess I'm just a misunderstood tarpon nut... that you'll never know unless you make that call. By the way, I prefer green apples (just kidding - that's a joke!).


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## Scott

One more thought.... Fishing 911, I gave you a chance to call me. You chose not to. You know who I am and I don't know who you are. If you think us talking was about talking tarpon, I think you missed the point of the invitation. It was an opportunity to know who I am by first hand experience rather than simply judging somebody you don't know. And you've chosen to keep it that way. I think that making personal character attacks on a message board about somebody you don't know, while hiding behind an anonymous handle... well.... it's just not right... Calling somebody arrogant is far from "just poking fun" in my humble opinion.

I may disagree with people's opinion and actions, but I do my level best not to attack somebody personally on a message board... even if I were to lose it and I did, at least they'd know who did it. and if I did, I'd hope I would apologize and not perpetuate it. After all, nobody is perfect and we are all sinners. I regret that you have chosen not to call. It is a loss for both of us, of that I am sure.

Good luck, tight lines and whatever floats your boat.


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## Irish_Jig

Fishing911 said:


> ...Thereâ€™s a lot more to it in the tarpon community than you realize involving personalities...


911, you are absolutely, 100% correctâ€¦I do not understand the tarpon personalities in this state. So please correct me where Iâ€™m wrongâ€¦

In another thread, Scott shows pictures of his boat satellite tagging a 130# tarpon. My guess is that Scott did not get paid anything to tag this fish, and I would think that it probably had to have cost him something to tag it. It also seems to reason that any data that is collected from that tag is going to help every tarpon fisherman in Texasâ€¦including you. So to me, this seems to be a completely unselfish actâ€¦i.e., spending your own time and money to tag a fish, so that the data generated can be used to help other Texas fishermen catch more tarpon. Am I wrong about this?

Please understand, I am not trying to fight Scottâ€™s battles, nor do I have anything to gain by doing that. But he has forgotten more about tarpon fishing than Iâ€™ll ever know. And my guess is that he has done more for the sport by Sat. tagging just one tarpon than probably everyone else in this state combined. If youâ€™re a tarpon fisherman, you gotta love a guy like that! Am I wrong?

So, back to this personality thing, youâ€™re rightâ€¦I just donâ€™t get it.


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## Fishing911

It is my belief that there is only one Being that has the privilege and right to judge and it certainly isnâ€™t me nor did I convey any judgment. Again, I simply didnâ€™t like the tone, but thatâ€™s OK. I perceived the post in a certain manner and I expressed my thoughts based on that. I didnâ€™t find it offensive by any means. I honestly found it entertaining. I actually 100% agree with the philosophy and principle of what was said, but not in the dialogue it was conveyed. I wouldnâ€™t look into it any more than that. Itâ€™s very seldom that I troll for tarpon so it really doesnâ€™t affect me to any extent. 90% of my fishing is sight casting in the bays. Itâ€™s what I enjoy.

There is no question the resume is impressive and I donâ€™t doubt that the intentions and efforts are for the good of the cause. Iâ€™m very familiar with the practices of satellite tracking. All I can speak of is my own personal experience and background and with that said I will reluctantly share a couple of things with you. My great grandfather was part founder of Alligator Head which is now called POC named after one of his best friends, Tom Oâ€™Connor. Thatâ€™s how far it goes back. My family set land (CCCC) aside, along with many others, to make way for the railroad in the early 1900â€™s to bring goods and tourist to town. My great grandfather and grandfather were pioneers of tarpon fishing back in the day and I was following my dad and grandfather around in the 70â€™s as a very young kid trying to chase tarpon when tarpon all of a sudden bolted from our waters in the 60â€™s and 70â€™s literally overnight. Both my great grandfather and grandfather had ex political leaders of this country back in the 20â€™s, 30â€™s, 40â€™s, and 50â€™s on their vessels chasing tarpon in the bays and passes of POC and Port A. I tried to do it on my own in the 80â€™s, but was unsuccessful as a 15 year old kid. It took me years to put these practices to use effectively and not until my mid 20â€™s did I even start to truly grasp these elusive fish. Fortunately I had some amazing teachers.


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## Tarponchaser

For such a fine pedigree you are extremely boring. Please go back to whatever blog appreciates you.

TC


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## Scott

Fishing 911. Sounds like your family is rooted down in POC. Guess there were some family connections with Bill Days and Bagby too huh?


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## lil mambo

Tarponchaser said:


> For such a fine* pedigree* you are extremely boring. Please go back to whatever blog appreciates you.
> 
> TC


 With all the stress he or she is showing I am trying to figure out whether they were the pick of the litter or the runt.


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## Fishing911

Scott said:


> Fishing 911. Sounds like your family is rooted down in POC. Guess there were some family connections with Bill Days and Bagby too huh?


Yes. Bagby, Johnson, Days, etc... We just recently lost Mr. Bagby.


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## Scott

Fishing911 said:


> Yes. Bagby, Johnson, Days, etc... We just recently lost Mr. Bagby.


Details. Details. Let's get some history and stories about tarpon bonefish etc in POC and any connection you have. You should have a wealth of info and family connection.


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## Fishing911

Evidently Iâ€™m boring so Iâ€™ll save you the pain. My grandfather said that once in a blue moon one would be caught in the surf.

Iâ€™m working on transferring some very old 8MM reel to reel film to dvd. Itâ€™s very brittle and old so Iâ€™m not sure how much can be salvaged or the quality. I will post once itâ€™s completed. It's footage of Tarpon fishing in POC and Port A from an old Farley tarpon boat.


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## lil mambo

Fishing911 said:


> Evidently Iâ€™m boring so Iâ€™ll save you the pain. My grandfather said that once in a blue moon one would be caught in the surf.
> 
> Iâ€™m working on transferring some very old 8MM reel to reel film to dvd. Itâ€™s very brittle and old so Iâ€™m not sure how much can be salvaged or the quality. I will post once itâ€™s completed. It's footage of Tarpon fishing in POC and Port A from an old Farley tarpon boat.


 Would love to see the old footage. get er done


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## Scott

Fishing911 said:


> Evidently Iâ€™m boring so Iâ€™ll save you the pain. My grandfather said that once in a blue moon one would be caught in the surf.
> 
> Iâ€™m working on transferring some very old 8MM reel to reel film to dvd. Itâ€™s very brittle and old so Iâ€™m not sure how much can be salvaged or the quality. I will post once itâ€™s completed. It's footage of Tarpon fishing in POC and Port A from an old Farley tarpon boat.


History stories are never boring. Let's hear a few.


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## Fishing911

I'm really not one to share things on sites like this. Not my style. Too much fluff and BS that can't be quantified, but I'll tell you a couple of things that have been shared with me way before my time. I'll let ya'll determine the authenticity. 

1. After WWII when the big jetties were built the best inshore tarpon fishing on the Texas coast was the cedars between the jetties and the pass per my 24 year old grandfather who did nothing but fish after his tour. A close second was the old postal route shoreline just across from the hump. It all depended on wind and tide. It differs from today, but they still show up there. I was fishing with Lynn Smith 15 years ago and we came across HUGE school chasing mullet on the hump. Thus the huge bull shark population there.

2. Mr. Couch's son (James), my distant cousin, had his leg removed from a juvenile Tiger Shark on Contee shoreline in 51 in about 3' of water and survived. He's 82 now and I just finished a Makers Mark and a joint with him after I fed him Beef Wellington. No $hit. Cancer so he's allowed. God bless that man. For me, when in Rome.

3. 2 people died (around 1948-1949) running into the old Conley building for the sole purpose of saving their bamboo fly rods. 

4. An estimated 239 # (almost 8') Tarpon was caught, landed, kept and photographed. Not sure what year, but it was in the early 40's before the jetties were built. Pictures were lost in the hurricane a couple of years later. All the Tarpon were kept back then.

Instead of me talking family memories I'll present some film in the next few weeks. I think we'll all be baffled. Give me some time to get it converted.


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