# TPWD site to vote for not allowing bow hunting for catfish



## jackieblue

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/busines...als/200803_freshwater_fishing_proposals.phtml
I ask everyonje to go to this site and cast your vote on not allowing bow hunting to continue for catfish.
Thanks,
jk


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## Hooked Up

I've heard very little about this issue. Maybe you could share some of the opinions about the pros and cons of taking catfish with a bow. Why do you see it as a problem? Thanks H/U


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## shadslinger

I went online and disagreed with the proposoal to allow bowhunting for catfish because you catch with them jugs/rod&reel/trotlines. You don't shoot at them.


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## Hooked Up

Ok, but why not? When I read it I read it as "extending" an already legal means of taking catfish. It would appear that we're talking about a "law" here. Why would I want to prevent my fellow sportsmen / fishermen / hunters from taking game or fish within the law? Is there some scientific data that indicates that this means of catfishing has detrimental effects on anything? I've never tried it, nor have I ever gigged a flounder (yet) but if someone wants me to to vote for or against something it would seem reasonable enough for me to ask them why. H/U


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## shadslinger

It upsets the catfish to be shot at. And that makes them go off their feed, really.
Would you shoot at these catfish when you can have fun catching them on rod and reel?


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## Hooked Up

> Would you shoot at these catfish when you can have fun catching them on rod and reel?


 I cant say I've ever woke up in the middle of the night dreaming about shooting catfish with my bow but I'm not ruling it out either. I do believe that when sportsmen go after other sportsmen, especially at the legislative level, we ALL lose. How many folks are actually harvesting catfish with a bow nowadays? Are there so many doing it that it is posing a threat to the catfish populations or do a few individuals simply disagree with the practice? Tight lines, H/U


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## texasGG

I am a bow hunter but I disagree with the law because you wound so many fish even shooting at carp or gar. They will just swim off and die. Plus it is hard to judge legal fish under water if they are close to the limit. I am not in favor of catfish bowhunting...just my 2 cents worth....


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## Hooked Up

texasGG said:


> I am a bow hunter but I disagree with the law because you wound so many fish even shooting at carp or gar. They will just swim off and die. Plus it is hard to judge legal fish under water if they are close to the limit. I am not in favor of catfish bowhunting...just my 2 cents worth....


Thanks. That's the kind of information I'm looking for. Tight lines, H/U


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## Gorda Fisher

Bow fishing is not "easy" and i really dont see a problem with it at least yet. But what do i know.


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## Hooked Up

I'm hoping we have a better justification for voting against the bowfishermen than the just the "I love Catfish" approach. What next; "You can only shoot deer in Texas with a 30.06"?????? I am willing to withhold my vote (and the votes of everyone I can get to go to that site) pending a reasonable explanation of why we would support this effort. If it turns out to be just another "push" that serves a select few at the expense of all others.....................well..............then...................lookout, cuz the recreational outdoorsmen are coming. I've seen the "bloody deck" photos so I know it's not about that. I noticed the CPR anything over ten pounds deal too. My guess is that the big cats are usually well out of reach (depth) for the bowfisherman. Is that not true? Educate me fellows. Why should we support you in this? Tight lines, H/U


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## jjtroutkiller

I have been bowfishing for years and can only count a few times that I have seen catfish at night under the lights, I see no problem with shooting catfish and welcome the opportunity to take home something decent to eat. If you are worried about the catfish population then maybe the limits should be restricted, like I stated before I have only seen a few catfish in the areas I shoot but put me on the local lake with about 30 flagging jugs and three people and I will have 75 fish in the boat by lunch. I do not support taking away any sportsman's legal rights, who the hell am I to decide if what you do is moral or not?


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## shadslinger

Okay shoot them with bows because,....I know that there is a good reason why you should,....just can't think of it now.
SS


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## offthehook

Why would you want to ruin one sportsmans intrest for another ones ?Bowfishing help rid our water ways of trash and non native fish so throwing some table dinner catfish to them is only right.The lakes and river are full of cats . when you can show me a study that has been issued stating catfish numbers are being affected by bowfishing then we have to step in and take care of the issue until then the few bowfisherman that are out there trying to stick one have fun .


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## shadslinger

I don't know of a study because to my knowledge bowfishing for catfish is illegal, in Texas anyway. 
I like to post my opinion like others, I do not however have any desire to limit or control what others do outdoors. 
Outdoorsman put more money on the line for wildlife/fish and actually go outdoors and experience the natural resources that we are fortunate to have in Texas more than any group no matter what the name of the group is.
I do think outdoors need to stick together as group to protect our rights to acess the outdoors in a way we enjoy.
If ya'll want shoot those catfish I dont care, if it is made legal to do so. 
If somebody posts a link to a public input sight for TDPW about shooting them,... well I have already stated my opinon, so I will just say shoot em if you want to, if it's legal. I'm used to catching them the ways that I do so you will not have any competion from me even if it is legal. Come to think of it I have seen very few catfish that could be shot with a bow, just like someone else was saying.
SS


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## Dwight

*just my opinion.*

I've been bow fishing for fifteen years. I don't do it all the time but when I get a chance while i'm camping or with some friends. I'll bet I've seen maybe five catfish in that time. This is just an example of how things are getting these days Or should I say done gotten. Making a mountain out of a mole hill. I've been to livingston twice in a month and brought home 116 fish in two weekends with my family. (Check Posts). Thats using rules between the dam and the bridge. Limit is in half there. I caught twice that many. I agree that we should keep an eye on things. But it burns me when I see something like this. But if it's the people's choice I'll do whatever is right. But, if ol' country boy here goes bow fishing and see's a bunch of catfish. He will throw about a dozen jug lines and laugh all the way to the cleaning rack. Thinking about how somebody should have wasted time on the water than behind a desk. Oh by the way I've had three fish fry party's and when I see twenty people eating and enjoying themselves it makes me happy. And I'll think about while me and the family was enjoying the outdoors and making memories while they were at the house. I need to go back and catch some more I'm almost out. That's just my two cents Dwight (IF YOU SEE SOMEONE IN THE OUTDOORS WITHOUT A SMILE HOPEFULLY THEY WON'T BE BACK. JUST MORE FOR ME.)


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## jjtroutkiller

It is currently legal to shoot catfish with archery gear. The following was just copied and pasted from TPWD website.

*Lawful Archery Equipment* (includes longbow, recurved bow, compound bow and crossbow): 

May be used to take *NONGAME* fish, channel catfish, blue catfish, and flathead catfish only.


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## shadslinger

*Shot em up!*

How long has it been legal, and where are all of the posts of headshot ops?


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## dbullard

Hooked up 
The big catfish will move up in the shallow water to feed at night and to spawn.My dad has caught many fish over 40 lbs on a trotline in 5-6 feet. Also catfish feed at or near the surface not just on the bottom. 
My guess is these big spawners are the fish that would get shot or wounded.
With a rod and reel or other legal means you have the option of catch and release not with a bow.


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## shadslinger

I really thiunk it upsets them and makes them harder to catch. I know if somebody was shooting at me when I was just swimming by I would be very careful.


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## CoastalOutfitters

i used to bowfish heavily from 1970-1983 , i can count maybe a dozen cats that were shootable.

SCUBA lake diving either, they are just pretty spooky or you can't see them because of visibility.



really don't think this is a big issue.


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## belly_up

shadslinger said:


> I really thiunk it upsets them and makes them harder to catch. I know if somebody was shooting at me when I was just swimming by I would be very careful.


This is your reason for being against bowfishing for cats? lol We kill cats all the time and come over the same spot we kill them 30min later and they are back feeding again. I can go out any day and catch just as many cats on a trotline as we shoot in a night.

I guess you should stop using weights on your line because that may startle the fish when you cast, dont use an outboard either, they will never bite a hook again.

Yes you may be careful when someone shoots at you, you have a brain bigger than a frikkin catfish.(not by much obviously)


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## Hooked Up

dbullard said:


> Hooked up
> The big catfish will move up in the shallow water to feed at night and to spawn.My dad has caught many fish over 40 lbs on a trotline in 5-6 feet. Also catfish feed at or near the surface not just on the bottom.
> My guess is these big spawners are the fish that would get shot or wounded.
> With a rod and reel or other legal means you have the option of catch and release not with a bow.


Thanks! Good info there and I appreciate that. I was sincere when I asked "why". History has already shown that we will never "always" agree on these kind of issues and I can accept that. I think it's important though, to make decisions on matters such as this based on what we "know" and not what we "heard" or "think". I'm relatively confident that the trotliners would not like legislation that further restricted them or even outlawed a perfectly legal and ethical practice that they enjoy so much. I'm of the opinion that "catch and release" is a personal decision that every fisherman has to make on his own. In the case of bowfishing it seems logical to assume that the archer has already made the "personal decision" to keep the fish he shoots at. Hopefully he will see to it that none of that fish goes to waste if he is successful. Thanks again and Tight lines, H/U


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## Git$um

I think as sportsman we should support each other. i dont bow fish, but I suppor those that do. I will wound more catfish with a broken line than any archer with their barbed arrows and 200lb test line. I also see no issue in identifying fish size {hasn't everyone sight fished for bedded bass}? If it is legal and you enjoy it. Do it.


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## johnmyjohn

I use to bow hunt and the gun hunters came up with the same issue,,,,the poor deer after being shot with an arrow would stagger of to die and the buzzars would be the only ones to eat,,I gun hunt also and I knew better because using a gun the deer were in a sight as far as 200 yards where bow hunting you would need them within 20yards ( that's if you know what you're doing) how far can you cast? How many catfish you throw back that were gilled or gut hooked ?,,you have to if they're too small. Little infant kids and people that doen't have a clue can catch fish on a hook, just read these forums, but somebody good enough to harvest fish or any wildlife with a bow and arrow is a real sportman. So if a hand full of people want to try there skills on catfish and miss a few they would be no different than you throwing back that gut hooked fish. If you people out there were real serious about catfish the law should be changed to where you can only take them with a bow,,,Let's see how full you're freezer would be and to be truthful this catfishing forum probably wouldn't have any reports because there wouldn't be nothing to report from a lot of you that doen't have a clue. I doen't use a bow anymore and doen't plan to start but I do have a clue,,,,,,,,and for what it's worth this is my opinion.


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## bumaruski

*Bowfishing*

Just my two cents. I fish for catfish on a local lake and do great. I know where whiskers are. I also bowfish this same lake about 50 times a year. I have shot two catfish total last year. Both were under two pounds. I have seen maybe four others, with no opportunity for a shot. Catfish do not stay shallow enough for a person to get a shot on a consistent basis. In order to have a good shot in the waters I fish, the fish have to be under a foot in depth. At three feet, it is really hard to see the bottom. Bowfishing for catfish will make little difference in muddy waters, period.


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## capn

I'm typically one to argue for access to fish and game if the activity can't hurt populations, but here's another side to the coin.

If the logic behind allowing bowfishing for catfish is because bowfishermen can't/won't shoot very many, why not also allow bow fishing for crappie, white bass, stripers, or other fish that don't frequent shallow water and swim on the surface? I suppose largemouth bass would be more frequently spotted, but I doubt very many people at all would take the shot. Well, ya gotta stop somewhere.

To me this issue is more about whether to lump the catfish in with game fish, or non-game fish, due to the legality of many methods legal for catfish but not other game fish. Personally, I'd like to see the laws swing in favor of the catfish as a game fish.


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## jjtroutkiller

capn said:


> If the logic behind allowing bowfishing for catfish is because bowfishermen can't/won't shoot very many, why not also allow bow fishing for crappie, white bass, stripers, or other fish that don't frequent shallow water and swim on the surface?


If you can shoot either crappie, white bass or stripers with a bow then I will call you Mister.:wink:


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## shadslinger

The catfish I fish for like as little weight as you can get by with, so you might be right belly _up, I don't care if you like my reason or not. It's my reason, and there is more logic behind it than some may think.
Do you hunt? Anything, it doesn't matter if it's limb chickens or white tails, if they have been pressured they are much harder to connect with. The same goes for fish, ever fish a farm pond that had not been fished in a year for black bass? Brother you can do no wrong, spinner baits topwaters worms, spark plugs w/hooks they will hit it. I am not saying that shooting arrows at them will make all catfish in every body of water impossible to catch. The issue to me was better put by capn, well said regarding the concept of game fish as opposed to rough fish. 
I feel/think about the difference between the two much the same way. 
I just like to express my opinon about fishing on this board even when it is not politically correct, or even correct. 
Use dynomite for rough fish if you want to, as long as I ain't game fishing nearby, or you don't blow up my catfish.
Game fish deserve more respect than to be shot at with anything, IMHO.
SS


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## dbullard

I am not for nor against.I hunt and fish and have taken animals with a bow.
I prefer fishing with a rod and reel and put just as much time and effort in either.
To catch fish consistantly you have to put the time in and it does not matter if you fish for bass or catfish.I think if the bowfishermen put all there efforts into the catfish they could have a little more success.I don't think they will hurt the fishery.Catfish do stay in shallow water longer but are pretty spooky.These were caught in less than three feet in a couple hours.
Fish how you want as long as you follow the regulations.


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## TexDanL

I have fished for 40 years and don't really ever remember seeing catfish sunning on the surface. Do catfish act differently in other parts of Texas? I live on and fish Lake Livingston and the Trinity River and they don't float on top around here unless someone is feeding them floating catfish food. I am fishing 3 or 4 times a week right now and haven't seen a single catfish that wasn't on a hook. If someone can find enough catfish on top here to shoot and make a meal out of them in a single trip I say more power to them. I suspect around here they would get mighty hungry!


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## capn

jjtroutkiller said:


> If you can shoot either crappie, white bass or stripers with a bow then I will call you Mister.:wink:


That's my point. It really can't be done, so why is it not legal? The same argument is being used for catfish.

Then the other question is, if bowfishermen shoot so very few catfish, why the push to legalize it?


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## Hooked Up

> Then the other question is, if bowfishermen shoot so very few catfish, why the push to legalize it?


 Capn, Maybe I mis-read but I believe the crux of the matter is that it is already "legal" (trial basis?) and TPWD is considering extending the time frame, perhaps to give them time to gather some real data. It would appear that a few individuals take exception to this practice but are unable and / or unwilling to present any compelling "facts" that would support their pleas for support. I'm of the belief that if we keep trying to dictate ethics to one another on every little outdoor pursuit that pops into our minds we will "ALL" eventually lose out to the antis and their agendas. Bottom line IMHO is that if it is legal and not damaging the fishery as a whole, leave it alone. Tight lines, Guy


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## capn

It was made legal last year for the first time Guy. There was a big push by bowfishermen to get them legalized, and a push back by catfishermen. The compromise was a one year trial run. So, the "already legal" isn't quite the same as say, trotlines, which have been legal forever. It's still new and open for debate.

The only compelling argument that I've heard for legalization is that it won't damage the fishery. Well, that's why I through in fish like white bass, stripers, and crappie. Obviously bowfishing wouldn't damage that fishery either, but there would be an outcry if it were legalized there. Personally, I'd like to see the state get away from considering catfish a rough fish and get closer to considering it a game fish. Down the road, with increasing pressure on all of our fisheries, it will be necessary.


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## CoastalOutfitters

you can "what if" this one to death...

when is the last time someone told you they shot a nice mess of catfish ?

i'd be more concerned about someone loading a freezer full of fillets and throwing em out 10 mo's later cause they are all freezer burned..............


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## johnmyjohn

It seems the to me I would make it legal to use a bow for all fish. This is why, Billy Bob desides to go fishing and he loads up with jug lines ,throw lines and Jim Bob's super power bait with secret sauce. He puts out all that and starts fishing with a rod and reel while he watchs his stuff. Or, Billy Bob desides to go fishing but wants a little challenge and desides to use a bow and he spends all day looking for something to shot to fill his freezer. In all common sence who will be the most succesful and who will impact all the fish populations the most? I hope everybody desides to bow fish and I can start keeping the huge fish because there will be nobody to catch them in mass like it is now,the big fish will be floating around dead everywhere not from bow users but from old age ( or for all the naturalist out, natural casuses).


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## McBuck

Maybe I'm wrong, but I wonder how many people who have commented here have actually gone to the TPWD site to view the regulation change that we are talking about here. The proposition is to extend legalized bowhunting for catfish for three more years so that they can gather more data about its impact on the fishery. This isn't a permanent thing. See the info below...

*Bowfishing Change*


 Extend bowfishing change for 3 years (September 1, 2008 through August 31, 2011). Existing minimum length limits (12 inches for blues and channels; 18 inches for flatheads) and bag limits (25 for blues and channels; 5 for flatheads) would remain in effect for bow anglers.
 The change to allow the use of lawful archery equipment, including cross bows, was due to expire August 31, 2008. The department is still in the process of evaluating the impact of the regulation on catfish populations. 

A lot of folks have made some good points in this thread. I could come down on either side of this. I agree with Capn that catfish should get game fish status and be treated accordingly. However, I can also see the other side that says that bow fishing won't make a big impact either way - so let'em have their fun.

Trotlining has been mentioned a couple of times in this discussion. It should be noted that trotlining and jug fishing are NOT allowed on all bodies of water. It may very well turn out after the data is gathered that if bow fishing is allowed, other restrictions may be added to the regulations governing it.

I can say without a doubt that...I am on the fence on this one.


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## TexDanL

The problem that I have with this is that like a lot of things, everyone is all pumped and ready to take away someone elses right to do something that they enjoy mostly because THEY (the ones that want it baned) don't do it or want to do it. Once you start this it is a never ending thing. There are LOTS of people that don't like jug fishing, Trot lining, or even fishing with more than one or two rods. They think that it is unsportsmanlike and allows over harvest. BEWARE, you are all for taking away this, are you going to be so happy when it is something that YOU do that gets axed? There are even the tree/animal/fish huggers that don't think that you need to fish AT ALL! Don't think that this can't happen. I remember when one of my FAVORITE sports got the ax. I used to fish for the bull reds off the piers when storms rolled in. When the laws first were changed you were allowed to keep NO bull reds. Catch/photograph and release is hard to do on a pier. I hung $400.00 worth of heavy surf rods up and have never pulled them down again. Without the red fishermen, most of the piers that I fished went out of business.


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## dbullard

*lets fish*

I am sure the TPWD will do what is in the best intrest of the resources we enjoy.We will all never agree on everthing if so it would be boring.We are fortunate to live in a state with so much diversity in ways to enjoy the outdoors.We as sportsman have the responsiblity preserve or future.
When it boils down follow the regulations set by the state and to pass it down to our children. And put a smile on ther face!!!!!!


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## shadslinger

Nice pic dbullard.


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## dbullard

Thanks SS.


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## belly_up

TexDanL said:


> I have fished for 40 years and don't really ever remember seeing catfish sunning on the surface. Do catfish act differently in other parts of Texas? I live on and fish Lake Livingston and the Trinity River and they don't float on top around here unless someone is feeding them floating catfish food. I am fishing 3 or 4 times a week right now and haven't seen a single catfish that wasn't on a hook. If someone can find enough catfish on top here to shoot and make a meal out of them in a single trip I say more power to them. I suspect around here they would get mighty hungry!


When we shoot them they are on the bottom in shallow water, they are everyhwere at night on the grass beds where we fish. We are fishing a river not too far from you.


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## jackieblue

A lot of fishermen, especially catfishermen, would ike to ban bow hunting for catfish. They voiced their opinion at the meetings TPWD had concerning this matter, last year. The general public was seventeen to one against bow hunting catfish. TPWD was against the matter but some members on the board of directors overrode public opinion and TPWD opinion. It was adopted on a one year trial basis. The board of directors are appointed by the governor, so that means rich special interest groups(large political campaign donators). 
This was past on a temporary basis and they are asking once again if the public opinion is to make the temporary enactment a three year option. It will probably do no good to voice an opinion against it because it was over ruled last time, but I will voice my opinion against this amendment and encourage others to vote on it also.. 
My opinion on bow hunting catfish is "if its good enough for catfish lets make it good for all game fish."
When a catfisherman catches a fish he has the option of letting it go or keeping it. A bow hunter doesn't have that option and if it's let go it most likely will not live with a hole from an arrow thru it vital organs.
Bow hunting is a blood sport and most throw away all the carp and gar they kill, they will tell you they donate it to the needy or give it to fertilizer mfg. but in fact most are thrown in dumpsters or out in fields. I've witnessed this first hand many times at Fairfield. It's within there choice to kill any fish that is not a game fish and catfish which is a game fish.
I'm not trying to change anyone mind just presenting a link to where catfishermen can go and voice there opinion on this.


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## rodwade

jackieblue said:


> When a catfisherman catches a fish he has the option of letting it go or keeping it. A bow hunter doesn't have that option and if it's let go it most likely will not live with a hole from an arrow thru it vital organs.


You know I get the same argument from people about spearfishing. Your right we can't release fish and have them live. THat's why we shoot what we are going to keep. You could give the same argument as to why we should only allow trapping for other animals, since we can't release them if they are not what we want. I shoot dinner, I have no issues selecting them or dispatching them. I keep what I shoot if it's may be short or not. I had one instance where a fish I shot was short. I kept it. I figured I'd be willing to pay the penalty if caught since it was my mistake. Since that day, I have learned to pass on questionable fish.


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## Hooked Up

> When a catfisherman catches a fish he has the option of letting it go or keeping it. A bow hunter doesn't have that option and if it's let go it most likely will not live with a hole from an arrow thru it vital organs.


 This has been a good thread and I'm glad you started it. Your statement above seems to prove the "apples and oranges" of the whole matter. It is a misleading statement that appears to have been made simply to "win" a debate. You see, when the bowfisherman releases his string he has in fact, made the same decision you did when you decided to keep your catch. He "saw" his target (first).............made his decision (personal)........................and elected to "legally" harvest his prey. I would imagine that the "catfisherman" would be plenty upset if the hunting community went after his right to harvest Catfish "by any legal means" and you wont see me participating in that either. I personally see absolutely no "sport" in trotlining. However it's legal, many enjoy it and I haven't seen any data showing that's hurting the fishery, so go get 'em boys. That being said,............if the true intent of this poll / vote is to obtain gamefish status for Catfish in Texas; why not just say that? You might actually get some support for that effort. Tight lines, H/U


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## jackieblue

Catfish are a game fish.
As stated above:
I'm not trying to change anyone mind just presenting a link to where catfishermen can go and voice there opinion on this.


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## shadslinger

Catfish are a great gamefish these days. I started fishing when I was 4 years old in the boat with dad (mom fussed but dad told her "I'll watch him like he was my own") and we used to idle off points with a 40hp Seaking on a fiberglass boat that looked a Corvette on top w/deep v for black bass. We caught them everytime we went on Arbogasters, Sonics, meppes spinners, and Zaraspooks. Black bass were easy to catch in most lakes. By the time I entered SFA in 1971 you could wade out ANYWERE on Lake Sam Rayburn and catch a bunch of black bass.
Today you can fish for days and be lucky to hook very many black bass on most lakes. That is why a 12lbs bag wins money in a lot of times in tourneys.
However, you can go to most lakes in Texas and have a lot of fun catching a bunch of catfish. 
Those who fished salt before the regs and rules on trout, reds, and flounder will remember nights on piers when you caught and kept every trout, flounder, and red that you caught.
Now a good night on a pier is noteworthy.
I believe in good rules and regulations for fish and wildlife because without them our chance to enjoy the harvest of quality game and fish would be zero. 
Good open discussion between sportsman, like this one, is healthy for the future of outdoors sports in Texas.
All said, I vote don't shoot catfish, because they are a game fish. 
That, like most things in my life, make me old school. 
It's good to see people talking about it who care about it the way outdoorsmen do. They spend more time and money where their mouth is when it comes to the environment than anyone else.


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## marinecorpsnelson

texasGG said:


> I am a bow hunter but I disagree with the law because you wound so many fish even shooting at carp or gar. They will just swim off and die. Plus it is hard to judge legal fish under water if they are close to the limit. I am not in favor of catfish bowhunting...just my 2 cents worth....


I am a bowfisherman, I've been doing it for some time now, and it is a huge thrill. I have wounded very few fish will doing this sport. And the ones that might actually get off my arrow stand a good chance of surviving. My friends have accedentally shot catfish when it was illegal. This was something that is sometimes difficult to avoid, when you are shooting at fish 3 or 4 feet deep. If it is illegal to take catfish with a bow, then one taken by accident is likely to be thrown away instead of eaten, for fear of large fines.


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## Andy_Holland_25

Not to offend anyone, but this issue seems like it does not have alot of merit. Bow-fisherman are not going to shoot enough or near as many catfish as a rod and reel fisherman would catch and I would bet that more are wounded by swallowing a hook and getting of the line than by bow fisherman.

If you do not believe me go bow-fishing and try to just shoot catfish and see how many you end up with.

My opinion would be do not knock bow fishing until you have tried it and are knowlegable of what goes on when you are bow fishing.

Andy


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## Hooked Up

> Good open discussion between sportsman, like this one, is healthy for the future of outdoors sports in Texas.


 I agree wholeheartedly. Just for the record, I have no intention of taking up the pursuit of Catfish with a bow. I'm not going to tell another outdoorsman / sportsman that he "shouldn't" either. I even went to JackieBlue's webpage and all I can say is WOW! Those are some monsters and just between you, me and the world wide web, I sure hope noone is trying to take those bad boys with a bow! I also commend you for the CPR statement on that page. You sound like the kind of fella I "would" like to fish with. I just dont see us archery types as a threat to the resource. Great thread Captain. Thanks for bringing this to our attention. Tight lines, H/U


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## belly_up

jackieblue said:


> When a catfisherman catches a fish he has the option of letting it go or keeping it. A bow hunter doesn't have that option and if it's let go it most likely will not live with a hole from an arrow thru it vital organs.


You have to remember when bowfishing the fisherman selectively shoots the fish, so there are no undersized ones or "throwbacks". We keep and eat all the cats we shoot, and give the other fish to the nickels down the road.


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## TexDanL

dbullard said:


> I am sure the TPWD will do what is in the best intrest of the resources we enjoy.


 Actually they always do what is best for the state and their pocket book. Fishing is big business in Texas and extremely profitable for the state. Any time that you think that a bureaucrat or politician has YOUR best interests in mind you better watch out!!


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## dbullard

Does TPWD make money ? I am sure they do but they also put alot back into fisheries.
How good would the stripper fishing be without the hatcheries or bass fishing on some of or lakes without the slot limits?If we go back a few years how many Redfish would we have if they allowed the use of sienes and commercial fishing to continue?I support them
and if you buy a liscenes you do to.


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## TexDanL

A portion of the cost of all sporting goods is a designated tax. I am not saying that they don't do any good things but be aware, they are mostly going to take care of number one. This is the reason that the Texas Bass fishing rules are totally aimed at the tournamant bass fisherman and not the food fisherman. It used to be real easy to go out and catch a mess of bass for dinner but now is almost out of reach for most fishermen. The old boy with a can pole didn't put in enough cash to have any voice at all when the rules started changing. The tournamant fishermen and such spend a for their equiptment and so pour money into the TP&W coffers. This is one reason that I hate to see catfish and crappie tournamants starting to grow in popularity. I can easily see the day when trotlines, jugs, spider rigs and just plain food fishing for cats an d crappie would be as messed up as the bass fishing is now.


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## dbullard

TDL I don't think it will come to that with catfishing.I don't agree with ever thing they do either.Just pointing out they do some good things with our money I mean there money.I would say If I was a bass fisherman that practiced catch and release I would love the rules.If I wanted to catch enough bass to eat I don't know.There is always going to be pros and cons and it gives us something to talk about when we are not fishing.


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## TXPalerider

For the record I'm against shooting catfish with a bow. I'll even admit, as a bow hunter, I would probably enjoy it. For me it's not about whether the resource can sustain it or not. It's the fact that the public voiced their opinion and didn't want it. The TPWD did not want it. But, a powerful special interest did, so it was enacted. And. that is basically why this entire country is getting so screwed up. 

Also, catfish are a gamefish and should be treated and managed as such. Otherwise, open the sport to all gamefish (trout, redfish, largemouth, etc.). EX: The the limit on Redfish is only 3 per day. There is no way bowfishing redfish with a 3/day limit will put anymore strain on the resource than live bait. What's the big deal? See where I'm going? This is a giant "can of worms." If you're gonna use the arguement that it won't hurt the resource, then lets open the gates as wide as they will go.


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## mudkat

I don't know where ya'll are getting this powerful special interest group from,as small a group of people bowfishermen is we don't have much pull.this was started by tim mckee of the texas bowfishing assoc. he worked for many years to get this considered,I went to the local hearing TP&W had about it and voiced my opinion.I even changed the mind of two catfishermen that came to the meeting too talk against it.
As far as catfish being a gamefish so next we'll want to shoot bass or redfish is ****.we have never tried or will try to get those made legal to shoot,you have to admit people treat catfish differantly than bass .catfishermen go out and catch their limit(if they can) take them home clean them and eat them,almost all bass fishermen release all they catch.
If I don't excede my limit or get undersize fish really what differance does it make how I get them,and if you say bowfishing is not a sporting way to get them you have not tried it.
flounder is a gamefish and we've always been able to shoot them.so to say just becouse they are game fish you shouldn't shoot them doesn't hold water.LA allows catfish and redfish to be taken with a bow and their catfishing and redfishing are way better than ours is so it definantly doesn't hurt the fisheries.


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## Hooked Up

TXPalerider said:


> For the record I'm against shooting catfish with a bow. I'll even admit, as a bow hunter, I would probably enjoy it. For me it's not about whether the resource can sustain it or not. It's the fact that the public voiced their opinion and didn't want it. The TPWD did not want it. But, a powerful special interest did, so it was enacted. And. that is basically why this entire country is getting so screwed up.
> 
> Also, catfish are a gamefish and should be treated and managed as such. Otherwise, open the sport to all gamefish (trout, redfish, largemouth, etc.). EX: The the limit on Redfish is only 3 per day. There is no way bowfishing redfish with a 3/day limit will put anymore strain on the resource than live bait. What's the big deal? See where I'm going? This is a giant "can of worms." If you're gonna use the arguement that it won't hurt the resource, then lets open the gates as wide as they will go.


 Cool! You are just the man I want to talk to then. I keep hearing this kind of talk but can't find any documentation to support it. What special interest group are we dealing with on this issue? Please, give us the real "skinny" here. For example; how did you find out that "the public voiced their opinion and didn't want it"? Can you point me toward some hard data that might change my mind about this? I was just checking the TPWD handbook and noticed that a person can have a trotline with 100 hooks on it to harvest catfish. I would think that the man who does that feeds a lot more turtles than all the bow fishermen in Texas combined. I'd really like to be brought up to speed on this claim of the common man being mowed over by a powerful special interest group. Please elaborate a little. Tight lines, H/U


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## TXPalerider

Guy, when I used the term "special interest" I was not necessarily referring to and organization. What I was referring to was the fact that the majority of the public nor the TPWD wanted this law passed. However, somehow the board decided to do it anyways. To me that shows a minority or "special" interest's desires being implemented. Personally, I think it was a BS move to do that. On the other hand, I don't think you would ever see that sort of thing done with any of the "glamour" fish like Bass, redfish, trout, etc. There is way to much money following those species.

Now I have a question for you. Why would someone like yourself, that is obviously not a catfisherman, come over here and get involved in a debate/issue when ultimately you care absolutely nothing about the outcome. Things a little boring on TTMB? Need some place else to stir the pot? What gives?


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## Hooked Up

> Now I have a question for you. Why would someone like yourself, that is obviously not a catfisherman, come over here and get involved in a debate/issue when ultimately you care absolutely nothing about the outcome. Things a little boring on TTMB? Need some place else to stir the pot? What gives?


 Thanks for clearing up the "special interest" thing. When you posted that I thought maybe I had missed out on a huge piece of this puzzle. The second stanza to your post puzzles me though. "Obviously not a catfisherman"? Gee thanks for that judgement. Maybe I should have included some pics so I'll add them now. Catch and release cats caught a couple of weeks ago by my daughter and I'm sure you remember the pics. "Care absolutely nothing about the outcome"? If I didn't care, I would not have posted to begin with. I'm sorry that it bothers you that we are of different opinions on this but it "is" a forum on a site I have been a member in good standing on for almost ten years now. I'm not stirring any pot and have made no personal affronts to anyone who has posted on this thread. Too bad that you sir, can not truthfully make that same claim. Who's stirring the pot here? L8tr, H/U


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## shadslinger

Nice pic! Similing kids with a prize fish they just caught are always great.


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## TXPalerider

Guy, I find it very admirable that you take the time to take your daughter fishing. However, I think there are quite a number of people that have caught a catfish in a stock pond, yet, don't consider themselves a "catfisherman." First of all, the fact that you admittedly have heard very little about this issue and did not know that this was only a temporary law (1 year trial), were the first clues that you were not a "catfisherman." Here are a couple of other quotes that led me to that same conclusion:



Hooked Up said:


> .......... I noticed the CPR anything over ten pounds deal too. *My guess is that the big cats are usually well out of reach (depth) for the bowfisherman.* Is that not true? ...........


Probably 90% of the catfish I catch are in 1.5ft-3ft of water.



Hooked Up said:


> ..........if the true intent of this poll / vote is to obtain gamefish status for Catfish in Texas; why not just say that? .........U


Catfish ARE gamefish already.

So far as your claim that you are not here just to stir the pot, I apologize if I misread your intentions. However, in all of your 10 years in good standing on 2Cool, the first post you made on this thread was exactly your third post in The Catfish Lounge. Since then, you posted 10 more times in this thread. In fact, I would suggest, that your first 2 or 3 posts is exactly the reason this thread became controversial at all. This was all hashed over in here well over a year ago. It just seemed odd that someone would seemly come out of nowhere, to be the most active poster on a controversial thread in a forum they don't frequent. Again, I apologize if you had some genuine concern regarding this topic.

Quick question....if you are for the taking of gamefish by any means that does not hurt the resource, would you just as vocally support a proposal to be able to shoot trout or redfish with a bow?


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## Hooked Up

TXPalerider said:


> Guy, I find it very admirable that you take the time to take your daughter fishing. However, I think there are quite a number of people that have caught a catfish in a stock pond, yet, don't consider themselves a "catfisherman." First of all, the fact that you admittedly have heard very little about this issue and did not know that this was only a temporary law (1 year trial), were the first clues that you were not a "catfisherman." Here are a couple of other quotes that led me to that same conclusion:
> 
> Probably 90% of the catfish I catch are in 1.5ft-3ft of water.
> 
> Catfish ARE gamefish already.
> 
> So far as your claim that you are not here just to stir the pot, I apologize if I misread your intentions. However, in all of your 10 years in good standing on 2Cool, the first post you made on this thread was exactly your third post in The Catfish Lounge. Since then, you posted 10 more times in this thread. In fact, I would suggest, that your first 2 or 3 posts is exactly the reason this thread became controversial at all. This was all hashed over in here well over a year ago. It just seemed odd that someone would seemly come out of nowhere, to be the most active poster on a controversial thread in a forum they don't frequent. Again, I apologize if you had some genuine concern regarding this topic.
> 
> Quick question....if you are for the taking of gamefish by any means that does not hurt the resource, would you just as vocally support a proposal to be able to shoot trout or redfish with a bow?


 Fair enough. You most definitely "did" misread my intentions as it relates to this topic. While browsing via "recent posts" I saw another member seeking support to exclude bow fishermen from lawfully taking Catfish with a bow. I asked why and got some interesting and informative replies. Personally, I thought the thread was one of the healthier and more civil threads that we have participated in when discussing such matters. Now, I'm going to try to answer your questions as honestly, clearly and politely, as I know how. Let's all try to remember that this thread was a solicitation of action by it's very nature. I grew up fishing for Catfish just like so many of us did. Livingston and Rayburn were my Catfish hunting grounds back in the 1970s and 1980s. If you will look further into my past posts you will notice that I have posted my opinions on other TPWD scoping meetings as well. I "did not" just wake up and decide to stir the pot on the Catfish forum. I gained some valuable knowledge while participating in what I "thought" was a healthy online "discussion". I consider myself a "fisherman"; not a "Cat fisherman", "Bill fisherman", "Red fisherman", etc. I learned that Catfish are now considered a game fish and I appreciate that information. I don't claim to know "all". I find it odd that it is perfectly acceptable to use a trotline with up to 100 hooks to catch "game fish" (sometimes hundreds of pounds at a time) and make a big fuss about bow fisherman wanting to pursue their style of harvesting them when it is perfectly legal at present. I liken this to the bashing of legal catches of "anything" on one of our other forums. I asked for "good data" showing why I should support this effort and still welcome that data. I don't however; believe that any such data even exists. There just aren't that many folks bow fishing compared to the number of people using hooks, probably due to the fact that it is much more difficult than what we now call traditional means. I am of the strong opinion that when we as sportsmen go after each other and our individual means of legally harvesting fish and / or game we are NOT showing a united front to the folks that will ultimately make these types of decision for us. For example; I'm just not seeing bow fishermen pushing to outlaw trotlines. In regards to my having a vested interest in this issue, I am a Father of four and a Grandfather of one and we all enjoy the Great Outdoors and all it has to offer. In this day and age I feel that it is in all of our best interests to stay as informed as possible about possible or pending legislation that can / will affect our kids' and grandkids' right and "ability" to enjoy the sport(s) we all love so much. So, yes, I was very sincere in joining this discussion until the personal attacks began. As far as how I feel about bow fishing for other game fish; I haven't really given it much thought as that was not what the thread was about. Off the cuff, I don't think I would balk about that either. The equipment needed for traditional means of fishing have gotten expensive enough. Not just everybody is going to run down to the local archery shop and spend the money to get outfitted for bow fishing just because it all of a sudden becomes legal. I hope that I have answered your questions satisfactorily. I do believe that the concerns you mentioned might have been better handled by PM but they weren't and what's done is done. That is behind me now and I wish you nothing but the best. Tight lines to "all", H/U


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## capn

Hooked Up said:


> As far as how I feel about bow fishing for other game fish; I haven't really given it much thought as that was not what the thread was about.


Actually, I brought that up in post 26 and it's been brought up several more times on this thread. 

As far as believing what data exists, "bashing" legal methods, being against other sportsman, etc, it's those points that you're making that lead us and others to point out that you are very unfamiliar with this particular issue. The problem is you've approached it, though uninformed, with your mind already made up on the matter. I respect you and like you Guy, but on this thread I have to agree with Brad that you've come across like you were stirring the pot. This debate was gone over and over a year ago, and public opinions were gathered a year ago. The public was overwhelmingly against legalizing something that was previously and historically illegal. You can't expect that to change in one year. You are asking for data which CAN'T POSSIBLY EXIST, because it's only been legal for one year and biologists can not possibly come up with conclusive data in that time period. It should be enough to say that both the public and TPWD were against legalization, that's as close to data as you're going to get.

Not to mention that this is specifically a CPR board, whether you agree with that or not. You can't expect a bunch of CPR supporters to be excited about the prospect of big catfish getting shot.


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## Hooked Up

Capn, All I can say is that I'm sorry if you got that impression. Nothing could be farther from the truth though. I was and still am interested in the matter, just obviously have a different take on it. I'm keying on more of the sportsman against sportsman aspect of it. I guess I failed at communicating that as well as I had intended. The C&R statement confuses me too. Those bloody deck pictures dont support that very well. I thought it was a great thread and really enjoyed it for a while. Sorry for the trespass. It wont happen again. Tight lines, H/U


capn said:


> Actually, I brought that up in post 26 and it's been brought up several more times on this thread.
> 
> As far as believing what data exists, "bashing" legal methods, being against other sportsman, etc, it's those points that you're making that lead us and others to point out that you are very unfamiliar with this particular issue. The problem is you've approached it, though uninformed, with your mind already made up on the matter. I respect you and like you Guy, but on this thread I have to agree with Brad that you've come across like you were stirring the pot. This debate was gone over and over a year ago, and public opinions were gathered a year ago. The public was overwhelmingly against legalizing something that was previously and historically illegal. You can't expect that to change in one year. You are asking for data which CAN'T POSSIBLY EXIST, because it's only been legal for one year and biologists can not possibly come up with conclusive data in that time period. It should be enough to say that both the public and TPWD were against legalization, that's as close to data as you're going to get.
> 
> Not to mention that this is specifically a CPR board, whether you agree with that or not. You can't expect a bunch of CPR supporters to be excited about the prospect of big catfish getting shot.


----------



## capn

Hooked Up said:


> Capn, All I can say is that I'm sorry if you got that impression. Nothing could be farther from the truth though.


Impression is all it is, I know you better than to think you were merely pot-stirring, just saying that I can see how someone else could think that.

Notice what's on the CPR logo - "catfish over 10 pounds." A bloody deck full of 2-5 pound cats is a lot different than a bloody deck stacked with 10-75 pound cats. The fact that those guys with the pick of of those 2-5 pounders released a dozen fish over 10 pounds does support the CPR notion very well.


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## TXPalerider

Hooked Up said:


> ................. I'm keying on more of the sportsman against sportsman aspect of it. I guess I failed at communicating that as well as I had intended.


Guy, all sportsman will never agree on every issue. There will always be spirited debate. I agree, it serves no purpose for sportsman to bash other sportsman for using whatever legal means they desire to harvest fish or game. What's at issue here is, a year ago sportsman expressed their opinions on this issue and were overwhelmingly against bowfishing as a legal means to harvest catfish. If the board had not overridden public opinion and the TPWD's suggestion, we would not be having this sportsman vs. sportsman debate now.



Hooked Up said:


> The C&R statement confuses me too. Those bloody deck pictures dont support that very well. ..........


So far as your comment on CPR and the "bloody deck" pictures, to my knowledge, nobody in this forum is against a bloody deck. To the contrary, I think we all prefer one. CPR is the suggestion to "Catch, Photograph and Release" all catfish over 10lbs (breeders). Very similar to the saltwater guys suggesting that 30" trout be released.


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## bowhunterhowell

dbullard said:


> Hooked up
> The big catfish will move up in the shallow water to feed at night and to spawn.My dad has caught many fish over 40 lbs on a trotline in 5-6 feet. Also catfish feed at or near the surface not just on the bottom.
> My guess is these big spawners are the fish that would get shot or wounded.
> With a rod and reel or other legal means you have the option of catch and release not with a bow.


 You can decide to shoot or not to shoot . That is catch and release for bowfisher man . What happens to all the under sized fish or even the larger fish that gill hooked . They swimm of and die . Wich happens way more often that a bad shot with a bow .

If the right to take catfish with a bow can be made illegal with just a few votes generated from sites like this , just think of what peta or bow fisherman could do to trot lines and jug lines .They do not have to be maned and lots of them are left to rot where they are set . Surely this has a bigger impact on the fishery than just a few bowhunters , right ? It all starts somewhere . Why not here ?

Pushing for law changes on something that has no efect on this fishery dosn't sound so good now .

Chris


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## yakin ag

Outdoors enthusiasts should stick together...this is starting to remind me of the croaker debate. I bowfish, jugfish, run droplines and trotlines, and I promise bowfishing is the least detrimental to the cat population. I bowfish Gibbons Creek Res., mainly for Tilapia and the odd carp, almot always letting the native gar live. I've tried to shoot catfish, but I never see them...haven't figured it out yet  I sincerely hope for the sake of those that have figured it out that this extension is passed, for the simple sake of saving a new means of enjoying our natural resources. I bet if the antis knew about this division, they'd be thrilled. Maybe they could get rid of jugs next? How many old trotlines and jugs are left out yearly? Not too much of a leap if you ask me...now back to rigging up some new jugs for my upcoming camping trip


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## TXPalerider

Guys, this is different than the croaker debate. Croakers are and have been, a legal form of bait/fishing for years. If the use of croakers proves detrimental to the resource, I'm all for restricting them or reducing limits. In this case, I'm less concerned about the resource than I am about the way it was slipped into law. This is exactly what they knew would happen. If they could just get it passed on a trial basis, without hard data showing it was detrimental to the resource, it would never get changed back.

The point I'm making is, this is not how we should be making laws. If you can do this to a gamefish like the catfish, (which, in my opinion, they were able to do because catfish are not a "glamour" fish) then why not redfish, trout or bass? If this is the method that is gonna be used to make our game laws, then open bowfishing up on all gamefish, then take back only those than can be proven (with hard data) harmed by the method.

Does anybody see my point? 

I am not necessarily against bowfishing because I think the resource is in jeopardy, but, rather the way we arrived at this juncture to begin with.


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## Toddbo34

I couldn't agree more! Why can't we stop trying to bash each others recreational enjoyment and just stick together as recreational fishermen. I don't personally bowfish but some day I might want to. More laws just mean more restrictions on all of us. When will we get smarter than that and just stick together?



Hooked Up said:


> I'm hoping we have a better justification for voting against the bowfishermen than the just the "I love Catfish" approach. What next; "You can only shoot deer in Texas with a 30.06"?????? I am willing to withhold my vote (and the votes of everyone I can get to go to that site) pending a reasonable explanation of why we would support this effort. If it turns out to be just another "push" that serves a select few at the expense of all others.....................well..............then...................lookout, cuz the recreational outdoorsmen are coming. I've seen the "bloody deck" photos so I know it's not about that. I noticed the CPR anything over ten pounds deal too. My guess is that the big cats are usually well out of reach (depth) for the bowfisherman. Is that not true? Educate me fellows. Why should we support you in this? Tight lines, H/U


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## TXPalerider

Toddbo34 said:


> I couldn't agree more! Why can't we stop trying to bash each others recreational enjoyment and just stick together as recreational fishermen. ......................... When will we get smarter than that and just stick together?


I haven't really seen anybody "bashing" bowfishing. I think some would rather not have people shooting catfish. But, that's more a personal preference than anything. In fact, I have said recently that I'd like to take up bowfishing.

As far as sticking together, I think that is pretty much what happened a year ago when the public voted 17 to 1 against bowfishing catfish. The problem is, the board did what they wanted to, regardless of the public's majority opinion.


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## jjtroutkiller

TXPalerider said:


> What's at issue here is, a year ago sportsman expressed their opinions on this issue and were overwhelmingly against bowfishing as a legal means to harvest catfish. If the board had not overridden public opinion and the TPWD's suggestion, we would not be having this sportsman vs. sportsman debate now.


You have mentioned several times that the public was ignored and the board voted the way they intended. Do you have any evidence of what the results of this vote were or are you just going off what seemed to be the majority from this board on 2cool? Not trying to stir **** as I have not seen evidence to support either side as far as votes.


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## TXPalerider

jjtroutkiller said:


> You have mentioned several times that the public was ignored and the board voted the way they intended. Do you have any evidence of what the results of this vote were or are you just going off what seemed to be the majority from this board on 2cool? Not trying to stir **** as I have not seen evidence to support either side as far as votes.


Here is 1 source:

Orange County News - Orange, TX Newspaper.

Matt Williams interviewed TBA President Tim McKee

Here is a link to the article ( http://www.theorangecountynews.com/news/2006/0426/Outdoors/013.html ) but, I am posting the article below.



> Out & About
> Bowfishing for bass, spears for stripers?
> *Matt Williams *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope I am wrong on this one. But the Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission may have just cracked the lid on a can of worms.
> 
> The TPW Commission is a nine-member panel that makes most of the laws we go by in the woods and on the water. Some of their decisions have helped the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department earn a distinctive reputation as a national leader in outdoor recreation and the promotion of conservation.
> 
> Many are saying the commission did a hatchet job on that reputation during recent regulatory hearing in Austin. I have to agree. Giving bowfishermen the green light to sling arrows at catfish is like taking two steps backward in time.
> 
> Catfish (channels, blues and flatheads) are classified as the second most popular game fish in Texas. The largemouth bass is first.
> 
> Bowfishers use recurve and compound bows equipped with specialized arrows and reels to play the game. Most archery fishing is done at night using bright lights to illuminate the shallows and spot fish.
> 
> Bowfishermen historically have been limited to the take of "rough fish" such as gar, carp, drum etc. in Texas. It is a great family or individual sport for all ages, one with an avid following across the south.
> 
> Last fall, the Texas Bowfishing Association petitioned the TPWD to include catfish on the list of fish they can shoot. TBA president Tim McKee of Georgetown explained the organization's reasoning.
> 
> "All we want is to be able to put something tasty on the table if the opportunity arises," McKee said.
> 
> McKee told the commission bowfishers should be allowed to take a limit of catfish just like rod and reelers, trotliners and jug liners. He says there is no evidence to support the ideology that loosening the legal noose would damage the catfish fishery.
> 
> *The commission has dismissed similar TBA petitions. Prior denials were based heavily on the idea that allowing the harvest of sport fish with bows and arrows is not a practice one of the nation's leading game and fish agencies should promote. *
> 
> But not this time. Obviously, the wheel that squeaks the most is the one that gets the grease, whether it makes good sense or not.
> 
> Dallas commissioner Philip Montgomery pushed the proposal from the very start. He found support in commissioners Donato Ramos of Laredo, Dan Friedkin of Houston, Ned Holmes of Houston and Peter Holt of San Antonio.
> 
> Lufkin commissioner John Parker, Mark Bivens of Amarillo and Robert Brown of El Paso all voted against the proposal, but fell short on votes needed to turn the tables.
> 
> Like it or not, bowfishermen will be allowed to take a limit of blue, channel and flathead catfish on Texas impoundments under an experimental regulation, beginning Sept. 1. The regulation will undergo reevaluation in one year.
> 
> The statewide daily limit on blues and channels is 25fish, 12-inch minimum; flatheads are protected by a five-fish, 18-inch rule.
> 
> The commission's decision to concede to the TBA's request might come as a shock to some. Here's why:
> 
> *Public comments gathered during months prior to the April regulatory hearing showed that 75 percent of the respondents were against the idea.*
> 
> Commissioners also heard opposing testimony from representatives of the Sportsman Conservationists of Texas and the Coastal Conservation Association during the regulatory hearing.
> 
> *Even the TPWD inland fisheries staff voiced adamant opposition to legalizing bowfishing for catfish.* *Phil Durocher, TPWD's director of inland fisheries, pleaded with commissioners and cautioned them of the potential consequences of passing the regulation. *
> 
> Those opposed to making Texas catfish legal in the bowfishing arena had plenty of ammunition to support their thinking.
> 
> First off, putting bulls eyes on the backs of whiskered fish shies from the catch and release ethic that is becoming increasingly popular among the Texas catfish crowd, which numbers about 300,000 strong.
> 
> A catfish caught on a hook can usually be released in good shape if the angler wishes to do so. Bowfishers can't do that. Drive an arrow through the fish's back and it is dead.
> 
> Still another concern is identification.
> 
> Put a 17-inch blue cat next to a 17-inch flathead in two feet of murky water and it is impossible for even the sharpest eye to be 100 percent certain of the target. It is inevitable that some undersize flathead catfish will be shot as the result of the new law.
> 
> Some shooters are sure to gamble and put illegal fish on ice. Others will be prone to toss a wounded fish back in the water rather than risk getting a citation if confronted by a game warden somewhere down the road.
> 
> Those are all legitimate concerns. But *perhaps the most spooky is the precedent that has been set by all of this.*
> 
> *When the TPW Commission voted 5-3 to make catfish legal bow targets in Texas, it opened the door for bowfishers to set their sights on other sport fish such as largemouth bass, crappie, redfish, speckled trout and flounder in the future. *
> 
> Don't think it couldn't happen, either. *McKee told me during a phone interview that he sees no reason why other sport fish shouldn't be made legal for harvest with bows and arrows. *
> 
> "I think they (the bowfishermen) will be satisfied with catfish," McKee said. "But personally, I don't see why other species shouldn't be allowed as long as there is a bag limit on them. Bow fishing is just a different means of taking them."
> 
> Don't forget the spearfishing crowd, either. Scuba divers are currently bridled with the same freshwater "rough fish" regs the bowfishers had.
> 
> *What is to keep this group from coming forth and pressing the TPW Commission to make it legal to shoot stripers, crappie, and bass with a spear?*
> 
> Not much.
> 
> "What are we (the TPW Commission) going to tell them if they do?" Parker said. *"We have given the bowfishermen the go ahead to take a limit of catfish with bows and arrows, so how can we tell the spear fishermen they can't do the same thing?" *
> 
> Parker said he was disgruntled with commission's vote on the bowfishing/catfish issue. He intends to fight to abolish the regulation when it comes up for review next year.
> 
> "This deal has nothing to do with biological issues," Parker said. "It is a sociological issue that is a corruption of a 35-year old philosophy founded by the late Bob Kemp."
> 
> Kemp headed up the TPWD's inland fisheries division in the 1970s. He spent his own money to bring the first Florida bass to Texas.
> 
> The fast-growing transplants helped change the way people look at bass and Texas bass fishing in general. The Florida bass was the engine that sparked the advent of catch and release in Texas, which has since rubbed off on other fishing crowds. The catfish clan is among them.
> 
> "That man (Kemp) brought Texas sport fishing to the highest spot on the map," Parker said. "I intend to harp on this for a year, every time I get the chance. This is a travesty."
> 
> *The TPW Commission's decision to allow bowfishing for catfish also makes a mockery of the TPWD's public hearing process. *
> 
> *TPWD spends thousands of dollars conducting opinion polls and public hearings each year. The purpose is to gather information so lawmakers will have a feel for public sentiments on specific issues before the regulatory process is carried out. The public's stance on the bowfishing / catfish debate couldn't have been made more clear. Obviously, the guys wearing the suits don't always listen. *


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## jjtroutkiller

Thanks for the link TXPalerider as there was some good info to be had but in all fairness it was obvious as to what side the author Matt Williams was on, in one line you had highlighted he stated that "Public comments gathered during months prior to the April regulatory hearing showed that 75% of the respondents were against the idea." I wonder if this was a vote from the public that was 75% against the idea or if it was what he had gathered by reading threads such as these on the subject?


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## TXPalerider

I just did a search "tpwd bowfishing catfish" and that was just the first one that came up. I obviously didn't save any of the documents I read a year ago.


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## shadslinger

Go to new post "The times have changed". I think that will effectively resolve any more problems here. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
I am glad there is an internet.


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## capn

jjtroutkiller said:


> Thanks for the link TXPalerider as there was some good info to be had but in all fairness it was obvious as to what side the author Matt Williams was on, in one line you had highlighted he stated that "Public comments gathered during months prior to the April regulatory hearing showed that 75% of the respondents were against the idea." I wonder if this was a vote from the public that was 75% against the idea or if it was what he had gathered by reading threads such as these on the subject?


The huge numbers against were figures that came from tpwd last year. It has nothing to do with this board. This is all old news and it's been hashed out here before.


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## shadslinger

Has anyone caught some catfish?


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## Hooked Up

Capn, Where would someone begin looking for these "huge"  numbers? I have a little time on my hands nowadays and am willing to do a little searching if someone is willing to give me a hint as to where these records are kept. I do remember some of the discussion / debate from last year and I read Commissioner Parker's comments in the newspaper article. I know him to be a good man but put very little stock in newspaper articles when one is really trying to grasp the "big picture" on any political debate. I was in government for many years and in that time have read a bunch of articles in newspapers that reported on events I was present at and reading those articles sometimes left me wondering if we were even at the same event. Lemme know. I'll do what I can to find minutes of meetings, attendance of those meetings, etc. Wadduya think? H/U


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## capn

Just do a search, I remember a lot of info just from this board. I'm sure that if you put any effort into it, you can find it.

But again, this is all old news.


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## jackieblue

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/outdoors/stories/030608dnsposasser.29e81f1.html


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## TXPalerider

jackieblue said:


> http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/outdoors/stories/030608dnsposasser.29e81f1.html


Interesting article. I wish more people would speak up now that Mongomery is no longer a commissioner.


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## Freshwaterman

jjtroutkiller said:


> I have been bowfishing for years and can only count a few times that I have seen catfish at night under the lights, I see no problem with shooting catfish and welcome the opportunity to take home something decent to eat. If you are worried about the catfish population then maybe the limits should be restricted, like I stated before I have only seen a few catfish in the areas I shoot but put me on the local lake with about 30 flagging jugs and three people and I will have 75 fish in the boat by lunch. I do not support taking away any sportsman's legal rights, who the hell am I to decide if what you do is moral or not?


Bowfish all the time and see very few catfish under the lights as well, still like having the option to take them if I wish.


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