# A general disscussion



## shadslinger (Aug 21, 2005)

Whitebassfisher and I carry on a discussion regarding white bass and Lake Livingston often via email or text.
They are cool conversations because Donald can converse in detailed and in depth discussions about white bass and their behaviors etc..in Lake Livingston.
We have talked lately about the travel patterns or lack of once they get back to the lake.
My usual white bass trip goes like this; I go where I caught them at this time last, first, then I start looking if they are not biting, or are if they are not evident at that spot. If the white bass I see on the screen are identifiable as white bass, but will not bite I put that info in the memory for later that day and move on to find some that will bite. 
I pay close attention to the depth of shad/prey fish and game fish on the screen from the time I turn it on, it's telling me how the morning will go.
Definite signatures that are sharp from game fish mean they are on the prowl, the depth they relate to bottom and tail out over deeper water is very important.
White bass use a 45 degree slope to ambush shad, wherever they find both, shad and a 45 degree slope that is.
The lake is chock full of both white bass and shad, but you have to fish at a place where the white bass ambush shad.
White bass also use open water and do the tuna thing to surround shad and prey on them, or drive them to the top as an umbrella shape school and slash through them.
In very shallow water (2') they will smash shad down on the bottom or drive them to the top.
Lake Livingston has an incredible population of shad, this time of year go anywhere and you can find shad.
I have motived a few types of white bass fishermen over the years.
One is a pontoon boat that prey's on those open water shad, usually trolling and they have old sloughs and underwater ridges that affect the white bass and make them venerable in those areas. It's seems strange unless you know, to see a pontoon boat trolling back and forth in the middle of nowhere, but hose old soughs and ridges make the shad traveling by do a a slight upward move as they go by. That makes them venerable when they change direction and the bass feed.
I see the same pontoon boats over the years and my map shows them working old sloughs most of the time. they have real seasonal fishing times it seems. most of the summer. Some only fish early summer. some late summer. I see some who appear to know what they are doing in the late fall and winter.
Some people chase the fish and look for the active ones on sonar and there are a whole lot of follow boats that may not own a sonar unit who just go where the boats are.
There are spot fishermen who go to a spot drop anchor and stay, fish or no fish.
I go to spots I think will be productive when looking for fish, my decision to go to a place depends on a lot of factors, most are based on experience. In the end if it's a poor fishing day i start looking at my known spots until I find them.

Donald once asked me if I thought the white bass roamed far after they got back to the lake.
Don't you wonder if those white bass you caught in huge schools at the Lump yesterday left and went to Banana Ridge when you can't catch any at the Lump today but travel over to Banana Ridge and slay em.?
Or if the white bass laid down on their side on the bottom to hide from sonar/downscan at the Lump because later you go over there and there are huge schools. LOL!

Do they travel from Browder's Hump to the island? And back?
Or do white bass set shop at a particular spot after coming back to the lake and more or less stay there?
After many years of finding and catching them I have developed some definite ideas, but they could be completely wrong.
So as not to contaminate anyone's thoughts with mine I would like to hear what others think first.
I would like to hear from everyone who posts and fishes for white bass if they would like to contribute.

Markbrumbaugh what are your thought on the subject?
I have seen you fish over the years a few times and admired how well you work the roadbed and other midlake areas. I have seen you catch some big ole white bass from that Sea Hunt. I always enjoy reading a Mid Lake post, they are informative and that's what a fisherman looks for.


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## whsalum (Mar 4, 2013)

My biggest change in my whitebass fishing over the last 7 or 8 years or since I retired is to quit using waypoints as anything other than a starting point. I’ll lay out a milk run in my mind and then I’ll not only look for whites in those areas but most importantly how they are positioned in the locations where I find them. When you do it 5 days a week you can almost know before you drop the slab whether or not you are going to be successful. While chasing surface schools is fun locking in on deep schools on contour changes is usually a lot more dependable for me. The biggest tool for me is the SI/DI/ Sonar function. It speeds the process up tremendously.


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## shadslinger (Aug 21, 2005)

My question, and I admit I wandered far, is do you think white bass are homebody's once they come back from spawning?
For instance do the white bass at spot X pretty much live in a X square unit area? Or do they pick up and swim three miles to another place to feed at times?


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## McSpoon (May 18, 2016)

Loy,
Been a while since I have posted anything.
As you know I am a mid lake fisherman and love to jig White Bass.I think the whites are always moving up and down the lake. There are a lot of times I will find whites on a slope for 2 or 3 days in a row, then nothing for a day or two or sometimes the rest of the year but will be piled up on a random spot that’s been driven over 100 times. I also think they travel around because of the size fish I find. I have had a spot produce good size fish for a week or so and then it’s vacant, as I go back to check it I find smaller fish or vice versa. There are areas between mid lake and the south end that I think is a key to this puzzle, I have seen where the fish are not bitting mid lake and read your reports of tough fishing on the south end, it’s at this time I believe these middle areas that are not known for great fishing come to life for a few days maybe a week and then its all back to normal. This happens a lot of times when the current on the main river channel picks up, almost like it pulls fish off their slope/spot but at the same time pushes new fish into the area. I also think this is controlled a lot by water temp and wind, its a big lake and the water temp can be affected by the wind or the lack there of. I have not mentioned water clarity because in summer it’s not a big factor. I do think the fish return to the same areas over and over after leaving the creeks but I don’t think they stay there all summer waiting to spawn again. All of this may be controlling the bait fish and the predator fish are following suit. As you also know I am nowhere near as seasoned as you on this lake but there’s my 2 cents and I may not be exactly on topic. I do hope everyone continues to chase and enjoy fishing for the whites as much as I do, next time your mid lake give me a shout… good luck to all! 


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## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

My guess is that they move around considerably. Other than the ones that go upstream to spawn, whites are an open water species, which is why I think they move around for comfort and O2 levels and food. Certain slopes and humps may look like the attached at times, and totally void of life at others.


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## whsalum (Mar 4, 2013)

shadslinger said:


> My question, and I admit I wandered far, is do you think white bass are homebody's once they come back from spawning?
> For instance do the white bass at spot X pretty much live in a X square unit area? Or do they pick up and swim three miles to another place to feed at times?


 I think they move continuously. I think water clarity and bait availability are the driving factors and I think they’ll move 3 miles in a days time.


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## shadslinger (Aug 21, 2005)

McSpoon those are awesome observations and clearly stated, right at the heart of the question with considerable meat.
Whalsum you mentioned water clarity and that fits for the area you fish in particular, as it changes quickly there and you noted the fact that they are roaming open water fish.
McSpoon I sure agree with idea that heavier flow seems to make them get off of the tops of humps and ridges, and those super flows we have for sure exchange fish, sweeping some away and bringing new ones.
Whalsum I think that the 3 miles daily travel is spot on when they get an itch to move. Probably more if a bull shark was chasing them lol! 
It's around three miles from spot X on the south end to spot Y and I swear there is a school of white bass that make that run often.
Sometimes if nobody bothers them much they will stay on X for two weeks, but If the boats pile in there they leave that day for spot Y. And will be there in the morning!
Nowhere does there exist a 100% fact in fishing, and considering this topic I think there is also a population of fish who call a specific spot home and will only leave under severe duress and hard pressure.
I have figured out the tactics the white bass use on the south end to avoid being detected or make it impossible to present a bait to them, not that they would hit it once alerted.
They might be south end specific as that's where I am all of the time.
Here is one; once the summer is under way and the easy pickings are over, especially if the water is clear, white bass that you see the first time as you search for fish will rise to near the surface, (5'), and swim in a big circle and come back when you leave and eventually settle back to the bottom
Come back again and they do a Houdini act. Much like a flock of teal out in open water who will tornado up in a circle fly around and wait for you to leave and settle back down when they really don't want to leave the spot.

I'll use the white bass on "Preacher's Hump" as an example, the spot is also called "Pet Fish".
A lot of boats go by the spot every day and right after they return from spawning the spot is well populated with white bass. 
Great catches are made by a lot of fishermen there from April to June. 
It starts off pretty easy, fish will be evident on the screen and you can set up on them and catch them with not too much trouble.
Good ole looking at the water and going where you see shad dimple can get it done.
Then little by little it's harder and harder to catch them. 
Then it gets hard to find them, but since I have a lot of spare time and like to explore with the downscan over the years I learned where they went to hide. It's several spots, but all of them are close by Preacher's Hump. Those fish stay in the area from late March to the first of July, then they go somewhere that I can't find them, maybe three miles across the lake lol!
I'm pretty sure this is true for most of the south end spots in that time frame of late March to early July.

Another hiding trick the white bass do is pretty weird, they must lay on their sides on the bottom to do this trick, JK.
I got a text from Whitebassfisher this summer asking what had happened to the white bass? The day before it was business as normal, then bam! You could not find a white bass to save your life for a couple of days.
Determined to find them I stuck to my thoughts about their homebody nature and found them in the same spots we had been catching them days before.
Only they had strung out along the bottom in vast areas where they must have been just one fish thick, the line on the bottom was so slight. 
It covered large areas and careful side pulling a slab through them eventually got me one white bass after missing a few hard fast sharp bumps.
That was it, those fish left, but did not go far. 
I found them again not too far away, still strung out along the bottom in a thin line, but they would not hit.
I looked in several spots that day and found them in each spot strung out on the bottom in a super thin line.
In all cases the line started at the bottom of a slope, usually 20 to 22', they would start at about that depth and string out to about 28'.

It seems the first week of July always is some kind of turning point in white bass fishing. 
It is when a thermocline hits if we are going to have one, but even when we don't the fishing changes.
I have come to think it coincides with the very last of the shad running the bulkhead and them heading out to deeper water.


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## McSpoon (May 18, 2016)

There is a popular spot mid lake that I have fished a million times and I know Whsalum fishes it , no fish all year long. Either the bait is not present or the boat traffic is to heavy or as Whitebassfisher stated O2 level is off. They have not been visiting that spot . 


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## markbrumbaugh (Jul 13, 2010)

shadslinger said:


> Whitebassfisher and I carry on a discussion regarding white bass and Lake Livingston often via email or text.
> They are cool conversations because Donald can converse in detailed and in depth discussions about white bass and their behaviors etc..in Lake Livingston.
> We have talked lately about the travel patterns or lack of once they get back to the lake.
> My usual white bass trip goes like this; I go where I caught them at this time last, first, then I start looking if they are not biting, or are if they are not evident at that spot. If the white bass I see on the screen are identifiable as white bass, but will not bite I put that info in the memory for later that day and move on to find some that will bite.
> ...


Thanks! I pretty much over 40 years have a bunch of spots where I have marked on the gps. I start at the closest ones and don’t waste much time if they aren’t biting or aren’t there. Almost if not all are where the depth changes from 20+ to 10 to 15 in the midlake area. Since I’m too cheap to get a spot lock, and too lazy to use an anchor, I usually troll. If I have a first mate, I’ll drop an anchor after picking up a few going through. Pet spoons 3 ft under a sinker skip attached to a diver. I usually troll at 10 feet down. To me the key is to keep moving. If one spot doesn’t work, no sense staying there.


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## whsalum (Mar 4, 2013)

McSpoon said:


> There is a popular spot mid lake that I have fished a million times and I know Whsalum fishes it , no fish all year long. Either the bait is not present or the boat traffic is to heavy or as Whitebassfisher stated O2 level is off. They have not been visiting that spot .
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 my wife and I were talking about this today. I may have caught fish on this spot 3 times this year and for the past 20 years it has been one of my favorites. Not sure what is going on there.


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## McSpoon (May 18, 2016)

whsalum said:


> my wife and I were talking about this today. I may have caught fish on this spot 3 times this year and for the past 20 years it has been one of my favorites. Not sure what is going on there.


Yes sir same here. I have caught them 1 time this year at that location, but move 150 yards west and they will be piled up. Crazy behavior for sure. 


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## shadslinger (Aug 21, 2005)

Speaking of a usual spot going cold. There is one on the south end that was my absolute favorite, super consistent.
After the year when a slug of water that put 70K through the gates for 9 months it was clean as a whistle, no fish for almost three years, then slowly they came back. they have not been as many there as years past though.
I think I'm going blame the alligator gar, after all of the flooding they boomed in population and there is still a bumper crop.
Probably not true, but I'm still going blame them, speaking of gar they are some sea monster gar out there, i see them every day.


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## McSpoon (May 18, 2016)

Last year Little Mac and I were fishing mid lake and thought we had found whites hitting the top, it ended up being a huge group of gar. I would bet they covered a 2 acre area, not sure if they were spawning of feeding, we could not see any other fish or bait at the surface. 


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## Momma's Worry (Aug 3, 2009)

put some GPS trackers on a few and watch what they do ......................


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## McSpoon (May 18, 2016)

Momma's Worry said:


> put some GPS trackers on a few and watch what they do ......................


That would be a lot of fun to do and very interesting to see just how much area they do cover. 


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## shadslinger (Aug 21, 2005)

> _Momma's Worry said:_
> _put some GPS trackers on a few and watch what they do ......................_


_Ricky said; That would be a lot of fun to do and very interesting to see just how much area they do cover._

I always thought it would be really cool to do, but it is against the rules as I read them.
My father told me about inflating a balloon partially and attaching it to 30' of light mono, and hooking a white bass in the dorsal and letting it go back to school.
I think it was against the rules then too. I don't remember that, but I do remember white bass had no limit and we caught actual boat loads of them.
Ricky that gar story is as weird as can be, I know of creek pools where they do that similar behavior, but never saw it in the lake.
My bet is they were feeding as I think they travel up the creeks to flood waters to breed, but I could be wrong.


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## McSpoon (May 18, 2016)

shadslinger said:


> _Ricky said; That would be a lot of fun to do and very interesting to see just how much area they do cover._
> 
> I always thought it would be really cool to do, but it is against the rules as I read them.
> My father told me about inflating a balloon partially and attaching it to 30' of light mono, and hooking a white bass in the dorsal and letting it go back to school.
> ...


Shadslinger 
I believe you are correct about the breeding gars, they had to be feeding. I have never seen that many in one spot . 


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## whsalum (Mar 4, 2013)

shadslinger said:


> _Ricky said; That would be a lot of fun to do and very interesting to see just how much area they do cover._
> 
> I always thought it would be really cool to do, but it is against the rules as I read them.
> My father told me about inflating a balloon partially and attaching it to 30' of light mono, and hooking a white bass in the dorsal and letting it go back to school.
> ...


 I saw the Gar school once this year on the river just north of the roadbed. We thought they were whites at first but they were completely ignoring our traps. I switched to a slab and actually stuck 2, one of them broke me off and the other about a 5 footer I released. I had that one on video. The whites were stacked up under them. Never saw that before.


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## McSpoon (May 18, 2016)

whsalum said:


> I saw the Gar school once this year on the river just north of the roadbed. We thought they were whites at first but they were completely ignoring our traps. I switched to a slab and actually stuck 2, one of them broke me off and the other about a 5 footer I released. I had that one on video. The whites were stacked up under them. Never saw that before.


Well that’s about a 1/4 mile maybe less from where we saw them 2 years ago . Interesting. 


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## Nikki's Landing (Jul 14, 2020)

Thanks for all the great insights here on white bass. Sorry I can't add anything about them, yet. Definitely would be interesting to see a study on their seasonal ranges in LL. I have found such a study on blue catfish in a reservoir in NC. Generally the blue cats stay fairly close to their spawning location, but some ranged several miles.

Here's the link: https://vtechworks.lib.vt.edu/bitst...GristJDThesis1.prn.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y


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## shadslinger (Aug 21, 2005)

Getting back to my original thought, just for information's sake to add to the issue lately I start at the island. I see millions, millions of white bass in the same spots I usually catch them easy. 
This time of year those fish are Harvard grad smart and your only hope is that they school on top, then they are vulnerable and you can sack em up. Other than that they will frustrate the heck out of you.
They are smart about schooling and they must wait until no boats have been around for a while, or they are starving. When the feeding gun goes off it's awesome action.
The last few days I can't wait them out and motor up the lake where they are more consistent about top water schooling. We have been smoking them with traps or DuckTracker slabs and Texan teasers, mostly they hit the teaser first and cough up tiny shad when in the boat. The same size or smaller than the teaser.
Today Evan Jones and I did the routine and had two good top water schooling actions that boated a lot of white bass, all catch and release today.
But I know those huge schools down south did it somewhere, a lot of the fish have suspended at fifteen feet there and the smart trollers know how to rack em up I watched a couple of boats a couple of days ago while I was catfish drifting that were catching them steady Freddy.
Those fish never left home, just adapted and got harder to catch unless they are feeding hard and lose their caution.
So they didn't move I did lol!
.


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## McSpoon (May 18, 2016)

Shadslinger
They are very smart this time of year! 


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## McSpoon (May 18, 2016)

What really burns me up is when you hit 8 different spots and then go back to the very first one you tried and fill the cooler. Where were they earlier in the morning. Shallow? Asleep? Laying flat on the bottom? 3 miles from there and on their way and I just wasn’t patient enough? LOL! 


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## shadslinger (Aug 21, 2005)

That ain't no joke McSpoon! How many times have that happened? 


In my experience the white bass feed on the bank or real close at dawn a lot, and then move out as they are effected by the shad moving deeper, the sun getting higher, and those endangered alligator gar these days.
A rattle trap against the bulkhead at a point early is always a good starting place if you go looking for white bass cold on a new lake.
Then they transition deeper, 8' 10' to 12' for a while then on the south end sometimes on out to 25' and to different structures depending on where on Livingston you are.
It always involves a ridge, a hump ( a series of ridges) or a steep slope they can ambush shad against. Livingston is full of shad and white bass you catch them at spots where the white bass ambush shad.
On the south end it's not uncommon this time of year for a whole hump to look like a dessert one second and and then have schools ten feet thick moving across the hump the next.
Sometimes you can short stop them by catching some and getting fired up under you for a while, the more slabs in the water the better, but this time of year usually not long, but you never know unless you go.
_I believe on the south end structures there are schools that stay put and move around a home structure, and schools that roam from one structure to the next. And schools that live suspended over old oxbow lakes and sloughs at fifteen feet deep. those are the fish the professional trollers catch and real hogs. _
I'm not joking or being sarcastic, catching those suspended fish trolling is a an art, i have watched the pros be super successful and armatures come behind them getting skunked. Of course those pro trollers will leave until you do and then maybe go back if yoyu try trolling out of sync around them, or just around them lol! I don't troll but I watch hundreds of other do it
.
When the roaming schools show up at a structure all heck breaks lose for a while as everybody joins in a feeding frenzy and action is every cast/drop, two at a time and all that.
Wen they leave action cools, but those home fish are still wired to feed and good action may still last a bit, just not as fast. Depending on time of year and solunar time the action may drop off like a switch or stay good. Often the home school seems to follow the roamers over a hump to the edge and then hang there for a bit.
Even when those roamers don't come by, the solunar time will get right and those home structure fish will feed.
In my opinion white bass feed very predictably on the solunar tables.
When pressured the homebody fish find ways to stay close to the structure but avoid detection, going deep, hiding in creases and beside ridges.Beside old fondation blocks, a creek channel etc...
I'll use a mid lake spot for example, there are always fish somewhere around those bridges, but boy can they hide or make themselves unreachable in that structure if they want to.
On the south end they will hide on the side of humps and go a little deeper to the side until time to feed. Many places there are serious gorges around some of the structures they can hide in.
They always have to feed according to how they can ambush shad. Right now its common for them to ambush shad just off of a ridge/shelf on the deep side and force them to the top. It seems to me when it's blazing hot that's their MO.


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## shadslinger (Aug 21, 2005)

They followed the pattern I laid out in the previous reply to the T today. South end was dead early so I went mid -lake where it was slow but I jigged up 25 and then let them go there.
i went back south with a drum I caught and drifted for cats on the humps there. I visited three humps and there were white bass on all of them all, but on two were very small schools and strung out on the bottom. On the third hump while I drifted a massive school of white bass rolled up on the top of the hump and went crazy for a short while and moved on.
So that proves nothing lol! 
But it is fun to theorize about it.
I caught three nice blue cats and kept two for dinner, and the one we ate tonight was delicious.


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## McSpoon (May 18, 2016)

It’s amazing how good a fresh blue cat can taste. 


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## whsalum (Mar 4, 2013)

Sometimes those fish flat on the bottom will go nuts if you can trigger them. For me they are impossible to catch jigging but sometimes I can back off and slide a slab through em and do pretty well.


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## shadslinger (Aug 21, 2005)

"Sometimes those fish flat on the bottom will go nuts if you can trigger them. For me they are impossible to catch jigging but sometimes I can back off and slide a slab through em and do pretty well"

Yep that's the strategy that works best when they are being tricky, and it's really wild how if you can a couple to pull the trigger on the slab then the party is on!. Though I have been having success over deeper fish(25") using 10# line and long very limber spinning rods. The combination floats a slab though the water very differently from a baitcaster and any heavier line. Braid no matter how light will not get this action.
After I thought about it I followed my pattern perfectly yesterday, the fish just did whatever they do that I have no real idea of lol!


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## McSpoon (May 18, 2016)

shadslinger said:


> "Sometimes those fish flat on the bottom will go nuts if you can trigger them. For me they are impossible to catch jigging but sometimes I can back off and slide a slab through em and do pretty well"
> 
> Yep that's the strategy that works best when they are being tricky, and it's really wild how if you can a couple to pull the trigger on the slab then the party is on!. Though I have been having success over deeper fish(25") using 10# line and long very limber spinning rods. The combination floats a slab though the water very differently from a baitcaster and any heavier line. Braid no matter how light will not get this action.
> After I thought about it I followed my pattern perfectly yesterday, the fish just did whatever they do that I have no real idea of lol!


Since you did your (normal) pattern yesterday and the fish just did their thing, maybe they are patterning you! LOL LOL 


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## whsalum (Mar 4, 2013)

Just curious Loy, awhile back you and I had a discussion about fish adapting to modern day electronics. Do you think that could be what we’re seeing now or possibly an influx of fish who weren’t native to our lake and rode in on flood waters a couple of years ago? I know I hear lots of the Livescope folks talking about seeing fish that just won’t bite.


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## fisher_dude (Oct 8, 2007)

Wow!! What an interesting discussion.
I don't have as much time to fish but I'm getting there so the question is, there anything to the barometric pressure and the bite? When I went a couple weeks ago, actually 8/5-6, and I was only able to fish the afternoon and the next morning, the solunar times were in my favor and the pressures were on the falling side we were able to put a smack down on them.
And one more thing to add to this is the morning outing we were picking up singles using different techniques but when the minor time rolled around it was on. 
What do ya'll think about the barometric pressure and the bite?


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## shadslinger (Aug 21, 2005)

fisher_dude those white bass will feed hard on minor and major feeding times, and just bump when the solunar shows a total flatline for fishing. And they follow the day to day ratings pretty well if everything is stable. I think white bass are bothered by fluctuations of the air pressure much less than catfish, largemouth or crappie. However sudden changes either up or down can send them ballistic and into a feeding frenzy.

Whalsum, I just don't know about that, I think electronics have just caught up to what fish have always done, we can just "see" it now, and that's bite when they are ready.

I often find those white bass who will not hit often on the south end and leave Massive schools to find fish that will hit. And come back later, cause you never know.
The studies I have read show fish are not bothered by our sonar units, they are bothered by more precise and effective fishing pressure and do just like deer do when heavy pressured, feed when no people are around. 
For deer it is going nocturnal, for white bass, especially when the water is this clear, they just wait for all of the boats to leave or feed when there are no boats around.

I am quick to ask people who first get Live scope or like units if they were surprised at how many times a white bass can hit your slab and you NEVER feel it lol.
I believe one of the issues with getting white bass to bite now is the huge amount of tiny shad they feed on, but when you find a rig that matches it those fish who refused to bite race each other to get it.

When you roll through those schooling white bass several times and are on the money with the cast and retrieve without a hit, downsize by half and see what you get on the next cast, whether you use a slab, a trap, or top water.

One last thing, Beacon Bay Don drift fished with me for a while today and in the course of telling fish stories he told me about coming up a huge top water school of fish just a little south of of the old road bed. He said they thought "oh yeah" and it turned out to be gator gar.
So there is another report of the top water schooling gar.
I wonder if it stars out a school of white bass and the gar moved into to eat them.


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## whsalum (Mar 4, 2013)

I actually did a short video on downsizing the baits a couple of weeks ago after seeing little bitty shad spit up in the boat. A 1/2 ounce Reaper and a 1/4 ounce trap on an ultra light are tied on in my frontier every day noi


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## shadslinger (Aug 21, 2005)

I didn't watch the video as my compute/phone are too slow, but the downsize baits right now make a huge difference. The shad the fish cough up are tiny. Once they get zeroed in on them they will not hit other baits near as well.
An old killer this time of year, and I mean old, is a trap with a jig tied about a foot behind it.


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## McSpoon (May 18, 2016)

whsalum said:


> I actually did a short video on downsizing the baits a couple of weeks ago after seeing little bitty shad spit up in the boat. A 1/2 ounce Reaper and a 1/4 ounce trap on an ultra light are tied on in my frontier every day noi


Whsalum
Did you post that video on 2 cool or just YouTube. Loy I will have to try that OLD rigging out soon . 


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## shadslinger (Aug 21, 2005)

MvSpoon it might even be less than a foot, it is a killer on schooling fish that are finicky.
If it's really hot action and you are prepared take the back hooks off of the trap.


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## whsalum (Mar 4, 2013)

McSpoon said:


> Whsalum
> Did you post that video on 2 cool or just YouTube. Loy I will have to try that OLD rigging out soon .
> 
> I posted it on the Lake Livingston Facebook Fishing pages and on YouTube
> ...


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## McSpoon (May 18, 2016)

Cool deal I will look it up, sounds very interesting. Thank you sir 


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## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

shadslinger said:


> MvSpoon it might even be less than a foot, it is a killer on schooling fish that are finicky.
> If it's really hot action and you are prepared *take the back hooks off of the trap*.


I have said remove the back hook off a trap for whites for years, it is so much safer and really helps YOU not get hooked. It seems 99% of the whites you catch on a trap hit the front hook, leaving the back hook most likely to be in your hand. It will not hurt the action of the lure removing the rear hook.


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## shadslinger (Aug 21, 2005)

The fight is better when you take the back hooks off as well, because with both sets of hooks one set gets hook on the side of the face and makes you pull them in sideways.
Watch close with shades and when those white bass are schooling there are four chasing the one you reel in. Often you can feel them hitting the rattle trap that one is swimming with.
taking the back hooks off keeps other fish from pulling it out of another's mouth.


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## SeaOx 230C (Aug 12, 2005)

Y'all mentioned how they seem to disappear. As some of y'all know, I don't fish the Lake I fish the River. I have seen it where on the the graph you would swear there's no fish. But if you drag a small jig real slow right on the bottom you catch em up!!!! 

Once you know what it is you can see them.on screen as scattered little humps that look like part of the bottom but are strung out in a direction.

As to the question of do they move far?

I believe they do if needed move at least in the River they do.

In the River they follow the bait period. 

I have seen below the dam look to be void of life. No bait at all no predators not even gar. Mostly when the water is very low and hot and extremely clear.

Down River close to the bay you find the shad and predators again. There is consistent deep cool water way down River.

When the flow stays up the bait and predators will stay right at the Dam for long periods. When it goes way low for a long time most of the bait leaves amd the predators follow.


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## shadslinger (Aug 21, 2005)

Sea Ox, good to hear from ya. The river is the white bass's home, they were a river fish long before there were any revivors in Texas. 
The Red River was the furthest west of their original distribution.. Texas Parks and Wildlife stocked them in Caddo and then people stocked them in other lakes in Texas and the rest is history.
Dale you are right about them following the bait period in the river. 
In the lake there are clouds of shad everywhere, it's amazing how much biomass of shad there is in the lake. The shad have both daily and seasonal patterns of travel and the white bass take advantage of those movements. The white bass have to have someway to ambush the shad however, either by making an umbrella school underneath them and driving them to the top, or push them against a ridge. hump, etc..
Ounce the white bass comeback to the lake from spawning they settle back into known white bass hotspots. They are hotspots because the white bass can ambush shad at them and that makes them vulnerable to being caught.
I would really like to read a study that monitored the white bass travel patterns in the lake.


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## OUTLAW (May 26, 2004)

Great info. Thanks guys


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## fishinganimal (Mar 30, 2006)

whsalum said:


> I saw the Gar school once this year on the river just north of the roadbed. We thought they were whites at first but they were completely ignoring our traps. I switched to a slab and actually stuck 2, one of them broke me off and the other about a 5 footer I released. I had that one on video. The whites were stacked up under them. Never saw that before.


I seen a school porpoising midlake had to be a couple hundred at least. It was a sight to see creating wakes.


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## SeaOx 230C (Aug 12, 2005)

Do the hump and such that they hang put on tend to be cloe to the river channel, or a tributary creek channel?

Or are these humps out in the middle of no where?


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## shadslinger (Aug 21, 2005)

Some of the humps are close to the river, one right next to it. In fact the depth goes from 60'+ to 24' in a short distance on that one. A couple are just out in the middle of the lake with no channel nearby, but much deeper water around it.
Over the years I have noticed that when the white bass first come back to the lake they are mostly on the main lake points, and then move to the ridges and humps to spend the rest of the summer.
This year there were so many white bass all of the points, humps. ridges, even just flats were holding fish right away.


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## Gofish2day (May 9, 2006)

We are headed for a great time to fish WB. Spent many Septembers catching great numbers. This was when i was really mad at em.
How do I know. Remember seeing bands of teal flying south across the lake on these trips.
Should be some great fishing once this heat breaks at little. Crank bait fishing that is!
Not that there isn't some good fishing now....


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## fishinganimal (Mar 30, 2006)

I just need to fish! Cannot catch em on the couch. I like fall fishing too. Little to no pressure it can be good. Usually smaller baits through November as well.


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## Mattsfishin (Aug 23, 2009)

Loy I don't know if you remember the little pocket on the west side of the lake we used to fish. Those dang fish have not been back in a few years to that spot. I have found some nearby but not there. Strange how they were there for several years and now gone. There is a good point nearby that has been holding the whites. I know when the whites that spawn up river they will go to the same places and go further if there is a good flow. Just my 2 cents. This is a good time of the year to show that little crank bait at the whites and hybrids.

FA you got to get up and go. I know I have the same issue but usually it is my garden holding me back. Going friday to see about catching them nasty perch. Got me some more new jigs to try out. Perch are not as fun to catch but sure do taste good.


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## shadslinger (Aug 21, 2005)

So circling back, after observing the white bass around the "home spots" over the summer it seems Sea Ox 230c is on the money. To me it seemed the white bass did become homebodies staying on spots where they are usually found. They appear to me to respond to heavy fishing pressure at those spots by taking evasive action when a boat shows up by getting tight to the bottom and stringing out on a slope so there are not many fish thick in the school. It does stretch over a long distance though. This alone makes them much harder to locate, I think most casual anglers would not know the signature is fish. Those fish that string out over a distance seem to do the same thing if presented with a slab. Evidently there is a designated "hitter" in the school who bumps the slab on the first lift from bottom, or on the way down, turns to the school and tells them "no".
Good luck getting a good hit again if you miss that first one.
The best tactic for catching them is to not spot lock over them or even some distance away and cast, but to drift slowly and make casts to them and keep the slab moving in a drag the bottom like retrieve. It's still slow fishing but will put some fish in the boat when things are tough.
This usually occurs later in the summer, but happens after any long weekend with a lot of boats out.
I do think there is a roving school of adult white bass who stay a while at a spot then use the river channel like a highway to move to other spots as pressure, bait, and seasonal changes occur.
No data to back any of this up, just my observations.
All of these are things I noticed on the south end, I believe fishing north of Memorial point is very different at certain times of the year.
Matt, that is weird that those fish went away, i gave up going to try for them over there, maybe it silted in and changed things.


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## Ditto2 (Jul 19, 2016)

A three years ago we were on some white bass that staged on a small hump in the middle of nowhere. Caught four man limits in less that 20 minutes several times. Every drop produced a fish. Been back to that same hump the last two years and have not caught a fish off it. I bet some day they will e back so we keep trying it.


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## shadslinger (Aug 21, 2005)

Ditto2, I hear that, it's happened to me plenty of times. Weird thing is the fact that some of those spots have a five year cycle lol!
And some have never paid off again, going on twenty years now.


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## Gofish2day (May 9, 2006)

Sommerville is a totally difference WB bite. Never danced around a school so much in my life.
That spot Matt mentioned on the west side is strange is it was always great. But Nada.


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## whsalum (Mar 4, 2013)

I stayed on the last year well into late November and quit them just before Thanksgiving. My go to presentation was to throw a marker on em and idle of of them. Point the bow into the wind as far as I could comfortably cast. I hit the spot lock and drag the Reaper as slowly as I could. Once I felt the initial strike I just held pressure and let em run. I would inevitably double up. Caught my biggest whites of the year in October and November. I did notice the whites had moved off of some of my all time favorite spots. They didn’t go far but they did move.


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## shadslinger (Aug 21, 2005)

The structures that were not near the river channel on the south end did appear to not hold white bass late in the summer and early fall.
A couple I just took out of rotation on my white bass trips. 
Sometimes last summer after the morning bite the best place to go was the spot nobody else went to. Sometimes I would get a weeks worth of fishing being the only boat there, but eventually the spot comes up on someone's rotation and you get company.
The white bass around late summer did show up close to banks on 20' contour lines in places I don't usually fish. I started looking around and found that pattern held up in a lot of places I had never fished, or even looked for white bass. There was a lot of white bass last year.
I think finding the shad in the river is essential, but it's much harder to use that method in the lake as most places you look there is a lot of shad, everywhere lol!
In the lake the white bass find a way to push shad against structure and attack them or stage up at a spot where they ambush shad as the shad come over a hump, rise, depression ,etc...
So all you gotta do is find where that is happening the most on a big ole lake!


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## SeaOx 230C (Aug 12, 2005)

I would guess the River channel is Main St.

Then step back and take a 30,000 foot view.

If you've walked the woods in the area you know there are a gazillion very small normally dry tiny creeks or "drains" all over. These all go to larger creeks that merge with the river. There is also ridges and hills that run along the same lines.

Now cover that with water. The hillstops and ridges are the "Humps". Then you have very slight channels that run all over the place. These channels connect everything together.

Pine Island as we call it was one of the highest " hills".

On a bottom machine it is very difficult to see these small channels. Most were only a few deep even before the lake flooded. I would guess lots have silted in and maybe even get washed back out at times.

Are these fish holding spots that seem to be out in no where actually next to one of these tiny channels? Do the fish use these as side streets to get around? Or do they cross around the Lake at random?

Loy, I think like you say. The shad use these humps, drop offs, for shelter both from predators and at times current. They use the various small channels that connect the major creek channels to travel.

The white bass use these features as ambush points and travel paths. So I am betting that even those small off the beaten path spots have some sort of "path" that connects to other larger humps and channels.


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## shadslinger (Aug 21, 2005)

SeaOx230c, those spots that were little drains and rivulets and dry most of the year creeks are the ones that have silted the most.. The little drains and creases on for example "the lump" that run from the top down the hill to the bottom, or deeper water now, are some the best spots!
Those that were out in fields or flats are the ones most silted in now.
Even when you can't tell a depth difference on a sonar, the fish still use the silted creeks and drains like highways, especially the catfish.


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