# Crushed concrete, crushed granite, asphalt, etc.??



## ShadMan (May 21, 2004)

I am about to need to bring in a LOT of material for a driveway and foundation under a steel building, and I'm trying to decide what to use. I plan on erecting a 1200sf steel building to use as a garage and need a foundation for it. The building manufacturer said I can use anything I want for it (dirt, concrete, etc.) with the tie-down system they use. I also need to put in a large driveway and a second circle driveway. I'm estimating the total square footage to be around 5500sf of material. What is the best bang for your buck (cost effective and will last) material for me to use? I want something durable (not dirt...LOL). And I don't want to pay $30k for concrete!

I've read through this thread and there was some very useful information given, but I'm not sure about the cost of certain materials (i.e. crushed granite, crushed limestone, etc.).

http://2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/showthread.php?t=95046

What would you use if this was your project?


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## wickedinhere (Oct 4, 2004)

I used crushed concrete for my 800 foot driveway and its held up better than anything else i have used. I paid around 400.00 per load(15 yards).


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## rangerjohn (May 15, 2006)

well i would say dont skimp and go concrete on the foundation for the building. they tell you that you can use what ever you like but you are going to park some expencive things inside do go cheap.

as for the driveway you can go with crushed concrete. there is a place called southern crushed concrete. they are reasonable and they ussually are everywhere. i am just not sure if they deliver you might have to hire a dump truck to drop it for you.

while i dont do much work in porter, if you like i can look at the plans and give you some idea of cost on the foundation. it would be a starting point anyway.


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## ShadMan (May 21, 2004)

Ouch! If my math is right, I'd need about 610 yards of material. That would be $16k for the amount of crushed concrete I'd need.  Maybe I'll let the yard reclaim the circle drive!


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## BritishSlave (Aug 17, 2004)

For best results with crushed concrete, have it rolled with a vibrating roller.


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## rangerjohn (May 15, 2006)

ShadMan said:


> Ouch! If my math is right, I'd need about 610 yards of material. That would be $16k for the amount of crushed concrete I'd need.  Maybe I'll let the yard reclaim the circle drive!


i dont think that number would be right.it really depends on the distance for the delivery and here in houston i think i is going for about half or a quarter of that price. call southern crushed concrete tomorrow and get prices. they have alot of different size and type of material.


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## wickedinhere (Oct 4, 2004)

I did my driveway with 7 loads, how long is your driveway?


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## WilliamH (May 21, 2004)

2 cool concrete party. 20 sacks addmission per person! Look into kaliche.


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## Bimini Twisted (Apr 17, 2005)

Jeff,
When I was working for the company from he77 we used a product called fly ash to make a parking lot in a substation. It is a by product of the coal that is used for generating elec. We had to water it down for a while and not drive on it while it set up but after it did it made a nice hard parking area. Not sure if you can buy this from the generator plants since deregulation screwed everything up but it might be worth looking into.

Rick


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## ShadMan (May 21, 2004)

Here are a couple pics. The back far corner of the travel trailer in this picture will be the back far corner of the garage. The driveway will be 20' wide until it gets past the two trees at the front corner of the house (directly behind the burn pile in the picture), then widen to 40' to match the width of the garage. The single tree in the middle of the yard (near the travel trailer) will be taken out. You can also see the circle drive in front of the house. And of course the big pile of trash from the gameroom remodel will be gone.


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## rangerjohn (May 15, 2006)

Bimini Twisted said:


> Jeff,
> When I was working for the company from he77 we used a product called fly ash to make a parking lot in a substation. It is a by product of the coal that is used for generating elec. We had to water it down for a while and not drive on it while it set up but after it did it made a nice hard parking area. Not sure if you can buy this from the generator plants since deregulation screwed everything up but it might be worth looking into.
> 
> Rick


fly ash would not be that bad of an idea except it is hard to get it straight as it is aloose powder. when a lot is to wet and mucky builders buy it to dry the lot out. i comes in a big tanker and you can buy it from a company called material services and supplies here in houston. i am not sure the price though.


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## rangerjohn (May 15, 2006)

i would suggest making the entry smaller maybe 14-15 ft wide. and definately make the circle bigger. AT LEAST 12 ft. trust me i have done many of these where the home owner says 10' and are ademant and they ALWAYS end up adding on or living with it when they drive off the drive and on the grass.



ShadMan said:


> Here are a couple pics. The back far corner of the travel trailer in this picture will be the back far corner of the garage. The driveway will be 20' wide until it gets past the two trees at the front corner of the house (directly behind the burn pile in the picture), then widen to 40' to match the width of the garage. The single tree in the middle of the yard (near the travel trailer) will be taken out. You can also see the circle drive in front of the house. And of course the big pile of trash from the gameroom remodel will be gone.


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## ShadMan (May 21, 2004)

rangerjohn said:


> i would suggest making the entry smaller maybe 14-15 ft wide. and definately make the circle bigger. AT LEAST 12 ft. trust me i have done many of these where the home owner says 10' and are ademant and they ALWAYS end up adding on or living with it when they drive off the drive and on the grass.


That's true. The circle is outlined with landscape timbers set apart 10' currently (and has been for the 25 years I've lived here), and I can't tell you the number of times I've hit those timbers. 

The current entry is 15' culvert to culvert (about 13' inside the timbers). I'd like it quite a bit bigger than that because I back the travel trailer in at that entry, and it's a tight turn (narrow street) trying not to pull into my neighbor's yard across the street.  I'd say 16' is minimum for that 90 degree turn I have to make with the travel trailer, especially if we upgrade to a larger trailer in the future.

How hard does fly ash set up, and how much abuse can it take? I'd like something hard enough that I would feel comfortable lifting a car with jackstands on it.


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## rangerjohn (May 15, 2006)

yeah 20 might be about right. the other option is to g bigger tehn taper down and then back out. the problem is the way it will look. in the interest in saving dinero making it smaller where you dont need it bigger is always better.

as i said in my 1st post you can go cheaper on the drive but dont go cheap on the garage floor


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## kneedeep (May 28, 2004)

*Really...*

Fly ash is a cement substitute but is typically only used at about 20% (max) of the cement volume. It is not to be used alone. I estimated your only at about 80 yards of material. That's based on 5300 sq ft at 5" deep. You can have that proffesionally installed for around 25k. If you want a few reputable contractors give me a pm and I'll forward you a couple.

In my opinion some type of fill like crushed concrete would be fine for the drive but don't skim on the slab. And if you go with crushed make sure you line the subgrade with a stablilizing fabric before dropping the rock.


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## ShadMan (May 21, 2004)

kneedeep said:


> You can have that proffesionally installed for around 25k. If you want a few reputable contractors give me a pm and I'll forward you a couple.


I'm looking to spend around 1/5 of that at most. Know anyone who will do it for $5k max?


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## Bimini Twisted (Apr 17, 2005)

ShadMan said:


> That's true. The circle is outlined with landscape timbers set apart 10' currently (and has been for the 25 years I've lived here), and I can't tell you the number of times I've hit those timbers.
> 
> The current entry is 15' culvert to culvert (about 13' inside the timbers). I'd like it quite a bit bigger than that because I back the travel trailer in at that entry, and it's a tight turn (narrow street) trying not to pull into my neighbor's yard across the street.  I'd say 16' is minimum for that 90 degree turn I have to make with the travel trailer, especially if we upgrade to a larger trailer in the future.
> 
> How hard does fly ash set up, and how much abuse can it take? I'd like something hard enough that I would feel comfortable lifting a car with jackstands on it.


 We were driving Boom Trucks and double bucket trucks with dual axles on it. Pretty tough stuff.


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## rangerjohn (May 15, 2006)

kneedeep said:


> Fly ash is a cement substitute but is typically only used at about 20% (max) of the cement volume. It is not to be used alone. I estimated your only at about 80 yards of material. That's based on 5300 sq ft at 5" deep. You can have that proffesionally installed for around 25k. If you want a few reputable contractors give me a pm and I'll forward you a couple.


i am curious who told you this. most ready mix suppliers will mix 30-35% in thier mixes. i personally prefer 15% but it also depends on the type of fly ash. some fly ash is cementisious in its self and can be made to create as much as 2000 psi itself with out mixing it with any thing else.

as for the price, you would be hard pressed to find a good contractor to do 5300 sq ft for 25,000 turn key. that only comes to 4.72/sq ft and that is all the way in porter and with concrete/ fuel prices high there is just no way unless you get a guy who just works out of his truck.

the other question is how did you come up with 80 yds. 5300 would be 81.79 yds with everything being perfect 5" so figure 15% overpour and you would get more like 94.06 yds.

this is also just for flatwork not including any beams or pads for the garage.

so at a current rate including tax you a re looking at 7400+ just in concrete wih no labor no fuel, no other material such as rebar and lumber.and this is also for a more in-expencive 2500 psi mix which is fine forthe drive but not the slab.


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## ShadMan (May 21, 2004)

Can you get crushed concrete at any standard ready-mix place? There are two large ready-mix companies (Porter Ready-Mix and Campbell's Ready-Mix) within 3 miles of my house. Problem is, they are expanding Kingwood like crazy less than a mile from my house, and also completely rebuilding Hwy59 (building a brand new 8-lane highway) through Porter and Kingwood right now, so I'm sure concrete is in high demand in my area. 

I can go cheap on the driveways, but I believe I probably will look at a solid cement slab for the garage, as recommended. About 1/2 or more of the driveway area has been a driveway for a long time, and has a base of oyster and crushed concrete probably a foot deep, so it won't take much, if any, prep. The other half or so is currently part of the yard, so it will need some prep. Most of it is very hard packed, though, because there were several large trees there previously (I took out 4 trees that would've been within the driveway area already and there is one more that needs to be taken out) which kept the ground very dry for the last couple decades. Grass has never grown in the area where I will be putting a driveway.


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## Bimini Twisted (Apr 17, 2005)

Jeff, 
we also spread some crushed concrete at the substation and I can tell you this, be ready to be picking up tiny tire puncturing sizes of metal out of it for months afterward. They run it by a magnet before you get it but u still wind up with a lot steel.


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## Freshwaterman (May 21, 2004)

a little off topic... is there a big difference between pavers and stamped concrete? My wife wants to put stamped concrete in our driveway, but i thought pavers are easier to replace and such if they crack.


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## rangerjohn (May 15, 2006)

well shad, i am not sure if you can fet just aggregate from the ready mix companies up there. cambell concrete owns a ton of other companies so they might sell you some from another "branch" porter is not going to sell it to you. 

i believe there is a southern crushed up there.putting a god barrier under the rock is a good idea. even though the area may be dry for ever, you get a few good rains and the rock will push down into the soil. so bottom line, after year or 2 of driving on it, you will have to replace it.


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## trout250 (Aug 24, 2005)

if you can get concrete washout, it will makes an excellent drive way, an this may be what you are calling crushed concrete, but it is the stuff left over when they wash out the concrete trucks, if you put it down with a vibrating packer it will last and hold up very well. i have a drive way and a slab insice of a shed that is done with it , been down for 12 yrs, an is still ok, secert is to go thicker than you would with regular concrete, i think i paid about $125.00 for a 12 yard load when I done mine.


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## Mustad7731 (May 23, 2004)

*Driveway Construction*

Shadman;
I went thru this driveway problem 5 years ago, when I built my home.

I went with a fabric underliner [there are 2 different weights] with crushed
concrete (CC) {Bull Rock 3"-5", and fines 1" and less} for the driveway...
I learned these things....

1. The fabric is worth every penny!
2. I used the lighter weight fabric...It comes on a roll about 650' x 12'
3. The Bull Rock does not require fabric but produces a Very Rough driveway
that is difficult to work on during homeowner construction
4. The CC fines, or the size just above it, would work with the fabric and
produce a smoother driveway that is easier to work with during homeowner 
construction
5. 12' wide is the real minimun width for a driveway when used for any trailer
traffic.
6. I tried to make my driveway about 5" deep [4" into the soil]. Some places
it worked out just fine...Other places not so good, but I have not been stuck
in my driveway...LOL..

Good Luck,
Mustad7731
Jackie


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## Johnny9 (Sep 7, 2005)

*how much*

I had crushed concrete and 2 20' culverts put in on a drive 400 feet long. Contractor hauled in 10 yard of fill to build up an area that was low. Labor and materials were $5500.


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## Guest (Mar 18, 2007)

Have you looked into RAP (reprocessed asphalt pavement). It shouldn't be anymore expensive than crushed concrete and will set up better over time.



:rybka:


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## Texan (Jan 8, 2005)

Caliche will work for you, they don't call it road base for nothing. What I have done though is to water it in and let it set up over the course of a few weeks. Drive on it and pack it down, and then have some gravel hauled in. You'll need to border it, but it'll work.


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## Tombo (Mar 15, 2005)

The problem with crushed concrete is the residual pieces of wire mesh that can pucture a tire. I am still picking up heavy gauge wire after three months. Another choice is crushed limestone. Alot cleaner than crushed concrete.


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## TheGoose (Jan 22, 2006)

Great thread, keep the information coming. I am looking into doing something similar, so I am in the same boat as you shadman. 

BTW: The house I lived in previously I had some crushed concrete added to the side (parked my truck on the side, in the grassy area). It setup pretty good without any borders, and stayed good and packed, and didn't sink. I would go back with C.C. again, and probably will.


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## EZ ED (May 21, 2004)

*Shaddy*

Decomposed granite would run you about 45-55 per ton if you can get an 18 wheeler in to dump. It would take about a 155 tons @ 6" deep.

EZ


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## espanolabass (Jul 20, 2006)

I wouldn't use crushed granite especially if it close to the house. it tends to stick to the bottm of shoes and tracks into the house.


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## Big W (May 23, 2006)

*Concrete Washout*

Shad, I would go concrete washout, what I think a few of the guys are calling crushed concrete. The difference being concrete washout never has been poured out on a jobsite. Washout is the excess concrete brought back to the plant in the truck and poured out on the ground. It is mixed with dry materials and turned over and over again. Washout still has cementious value to it once you set it where it is going to it is going to stay. It is a great material for driveways, parking lots. I have a plant on 242 in Conroe not to far from you if you decide that is the route you want to go. If you can get it from Campbell or Porter go for it being that they are so close. Call the plants ask for washout and if they have a dump truck company to haul it for you. Don't plan on moving this yourself unless you have a large tractor or bobcat to move it with, HEAVY stuff. If you having questions or you need a hand getting this going shoot me a pm and I can help you get the ball rolling. Real easy to do so no worries and much cheaper than it sounds.


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## kneedeep (May 28, 2004)

*really*

I came up with 80 yards just with some quick math. And if you waste 15% on one of my pours.... you're fired!! lol!!! And as far as fly ash, you'll never see more than 20% on a spec. job. Typically only around 5%. And I know this isn't a spec job, but there's a reason they don't exceed 20. It's an inferior product.


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## rangerjohn (May 15, 2006)

kneedeep said:


> I came up with 80 yards just with some quick math. And if you waste 15% on one of my pours.... you're fired!! lol!!! And as far as fly ash, you'll never see more than 20% on a spec. job. Typically only around 5%. And I know this isn't a spec job, but there's a reason they don't exceed 20. It's an inferior product.


well in all actuality 15% overpour is the industry norm.
and 30% is also the industry norm. 
the reason for fly ash is to increase workability. with out it there are more expencive ways to create workability but by using "type c" fly ash you will never have an inferior product. fly ash was added to cement for a reason, it is less expencive then cement 1st off, then it increases workability and aids in set time (in other words it slows set time down somewhat to give you time to work the concrete) while to much fly ash will weaken the mix (to much being over 42%) anything under that will actually benefit your mix more then harm it.

i have about 30 books on the subject if you like to borrow them. including the ACI standards for concrete production and placement.

and every "spec job" is different. thats why it is called a spec job becuase you have to do it to the "specs" and the specs change depending on the needs of the job. sounds to me like your specs have just called for less fly ash is all. and for the record most plants use type "f" fly ash which does not create strength to the extent type "c" does but all fly ash does gain strength. 
things like silica fume and slag do not create strength but are used in place of fly ash sometimes. now if you want to remove the ash all together then you need admixtures to create the workability such as midrange water reducers and things of this nature. thing is give me good old fly ash because you cant buy a good mix with out it for a decent price these days. admixtures are going up everyday along with fuel and fly ash is still cheap (relatively). on top of all this fly ash weighs less and not having it will increase the weight of the mix and depending on the mix design could cause the loads to be "light" in toher words if a fly ash mix weighs 3800 lbs per yd and a fly ash free mix might weigh 4200 lb per yd then you are pushing weight limits on a 10 yd load. then you get into 9 yd loads or in some extream cases the scales miss read due to celibration issues.

sorry for the high jack shadman.
again let me know if you need any help with your plans for your garage. i think you have enough option on the driveway already.

i will call one of my breaking companies and see how much work they do up there. if they have enough they might be able to sell you the bust out they do for pretty cheap. the go around town and bust out driveways,sidewalks, concrete wash outs... pretty much anything. and they have 16 yd trucks so they can fit a ton of material in there ( well ok more then just one ton for the smart arses in the room)


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## ShadMan (May 21, 2004)

I'd appreciate you checking on it for me, rangerjohn. :brew:

Thanks everyone for all of the suggestions! This is going to be a major undertaking, so I wanted to get more than a couple opinions. I knew I could find the info I needed here! 2Cool rocks!


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## tjftmf (Nov 21, 2006)

Old River Supply company sells crush concrete for $240 a 12 yard load.


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## ShadMan (May 21, 2004)

Is that delivered?


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## rangerjohn (May 15, 2006)

shadman
i talked to my breakout company and they dont really do much work up there. he said the reason is there is not really a concrete crusher around close so they just dont go. he said he thought the closes was southern crushed concrete on the beltway and aldine westfield area.


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## ShadMan (May 21, 2004)

Thanks for checking, rj. :brew:


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