# What Caused it?



## MattK (Feb 9, 2006)

Ok, so I had a customer come by today with a Ch51Mg and was complaining that it was tight. The reel had been serviced fairly recently and had not been used yet. Upon inspection the reel was indeed very tight so I proceeded to disassemble. The pictures show what I found.

I have a theory on what most likely caused the damage but I wanted to see what some of the other 2cooler think.

So, post up what you think caused the damage to the key washer.


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## radarman (Apr 24, 2006)

How did the ears on the clutch roller tube look? Did it need replacing, too? Looks like it didn't get seated in the washer properly before being torqued down, a little bit too tightly. Was the clutch bearing put in properly?


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## MattK (Feb 9, 2006)

The clutch tube was in good condition and did not need to be replaced. The AR bearing was also in good condition and did not need to be replaced.


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## katypond (Jan 22, 2008)

Near a12volt battery??


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## reelthreat (Jul 11, 2006)

Casting with a heavy weight and engaging the clutch in mid flight????


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## MattK (Feb 9, 2006)

katypond said:


> Near a12volt battery??


No, I dont think it was near a 12v battery.



reelthreat said:


> Casting with a heavy weight and engaging the clutch in mid flight????


Hmm, that might cause some damage but I would think it would effect the gear set more than the key washer. Plus, he had said he hadn't used it since it had been out of the shop. He is a very honest guy so I have no doubt he's telling the truth.


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## katypond (Jan 22, 2008)

dog ate it : ) it always worked for me. Sorry need to go fishing!!


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## MattK (Feb 9, 2006)

katypond said:


> dog ate it : ) it always worked for me. Sorry need to go fishing!!


lol...it never worked for me.


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## essayons75 (May 15, 2006)

Oh, that's an easy one for me. "If it don't fit, force it." Simple.


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## fishsmart (Dec 5, 2004)

Roller clutch inner tube and key washer not aligned properly before tightening the star drag.

Charles


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## Dipsay (Apr 28, 2006)

fishsmart said:


> Roller clutch inner tube and key washer not aligned properly before tightening the star drag.
> 
> Charles


 X2. I've had that tube slip out before and once I got the reel back together I noticed that star drag got tight real quick. That and the reel felt tight. took it back apart and found it. Looks like it did a number on that aluminum key washer.


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## DirectDrive (Dec 17, 2009)

I first thought misalignment and over-torque too, but looking again at the photos the damage shows to be ramping up out of the key and washer material being plowed.
If the drag was locked down against a nasty snag and high test superline was involved, I would think that the stainless roller tube would win out over the alloy washer.

My 2cents


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## MattK (Feb 9, 2006)

DirectDrive said:


> I first thought misalignment and over-torque too, but looking again at the photos the damage shows to be ramping up out of the key and washer material being plowed.
> If the drag was locked down against a nasty snag and high test superline was involved, I would think that the stainless roller tube would win out over the alloy washer.
> 
> My 2cents


Getting closer but the reel hadn't been used and had no line on it.


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## BFI (Jan 11, 2006)

*washer damage*

My guess is someone tightened the drag all the way, put thumb on spool to "test drag" or just monkeying around, cranked handle and as previously mentioned the ears of the clutch tube (steel) and the washer (aluminum). In the end the washer was distorted.


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## MattK (Feb 9, 2006)

Remember it's a 51Mg so it's a lefty.


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## DirectDrive (Dec 17, 2009)

OK, a lefty!

It would have to be cranking action against a locked up spool.
Was the endcap over-tightened to lock up the spool and then some "test" cranking caused the damage ?
A gear jam could cause lock-up too, I suppose. Mismatched main and pinion ?

DD
Who's tryin' to build rep power


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## BFI (Jan 11, 2006)

*cause*

forced backward


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## MattK (Feb 9, 2006)

Hmm...even if the gear set was locked up the drag would still allow the key washer to slide and rotate.

Drive and Pinion are correct and were not damaged.


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## MattK (Feb 9, 2006)

BFI said:


> forced backward


DING DING DING! We have a winner.

Somehow the reel handle was forced backwards. Something could have been set on the reel, could have been placed behind the seat and when the seat was pushed back it forced the handle, or a number of other possible scenarios.

So, the handle was forced backwards, the clutch bearing held the clutch tube in place, and because the key washer is keyed not only to the clutch tube but also the drive shaft it was forced in the opposite direction which caused the soft aluminum to give.

Way to go BFI. Got some green coming your way.


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## BFI (Jan 11, 2006)

*cause*

Are there left and right 1 way bearings? If so, right hand bearing installed on left hand reel.


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## MattK (Feb 9, 2006)

It's the same bearing but just flipped. That was not the problem.


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## DirectDrive (Dec 17, 2009)

MattK said:


> DING DING DING! We have a winner.
> 
> Somehow the reel handle was forced backwards. Something could have been set on the reel, could have been placed behind the seat and when the seat was pushed back it forced the handle, or a number of other possible scenarios.
> 
> ...


Yep, that makes sense.
The direction of force (damage) agrees with this.

:brew: for BFI

Good exercise Matt


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## Bantam1 (Jun 26, 2007)

fishsmart said:


> Roller clutch inner tube and key washer not aligned properly before tightening the star drag.
> 
> Charles


I would agree with this diagnosis.

I guess the force applied in reverse could have done it too. How did the customer generate enough force to do that? I would figure something else would let go before that happened.


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## MattK (Feb 9, 2006)

In the pics you can see that the clutch tube was seated correctly because of the way the damaged part is sloping from the bottom toward the top. That's why I don't think the clutch tube not being seated was the cause.

How it happened? We have no clue. He takes very very good care of his gear so I am certain it was unintentional.

I would have thought the clutch bearing would have slipped first also but those bearings are pretty strong.


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## Mike in Friendswood (May 21, 2004)

I would have thought that the clutch bearing would slip way before that much damage was done, as well. Either way, that would take a huge amount of effort to do that much damage. Crazy!


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## Bantam1 (Jun 26, 2007)

We have seen it a few times here but nothing stood out for the cause other than the tube being seated wrong. If the bearing fails the handle will spin backwards more than anything. Did the reel has an aftermarket drag washer? Were there shims added under the pressure washers to give it more drag pressure?


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## Dipsay (Apr 28, 2006)

Either way that's one jacked up washer..LOL


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## DirectDrive (Dec 17, 2009)

The way the damage ramps up out of the key leads me to believe that the clutch tube was keyed in properly.
If the handle was forced backward it is plausible that the "fuse" would be the softer key washer.

If the key washer were of stainless the fuse might have been the clutch bearing.


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## fishsmart (Dec 5, 2004)

The good news is that all we need(ed) was/is a few parts to get back in operation.

Charles


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## MattK (Feb 9, 2006)

DirectDrive said:


> The way the damage ramps up out of the key leads me to believe that the clutch tube was keyed in properly.
> If the handle was forced backward it is plausible that the "fuse" would be the softer key washer.


Plus the way that he aluminum was plowed upwards leads me to believe it was seated correctly. He most likely had his drag backed all the way off for storage and the compression of the spring washers allowed the clutch tube to travel up the shaft.

But yes, that's one jacked up washer..lol


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## rjr (Apr 27, 2006)

I've seen a problem with the clutch bearing being overgreased and allowing the clutch tube and handle to be turned backward, could this have been the case?
rjr


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## MattK (Feb 9, 2006)

Nope, actually the complete opposite. The clutch bearing held almost too well.


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## DirectDrive (Dec 17, 2009)

rjr said:


> I've seen a problem with the clutch bearing being overgreased and allowing the clutch tube and handle to be turned backward, could this have been the case?
> rjr


If the clutch bearing were to fail and allow the handle to turn backward, the reel would simply act like an old-time direct-drive reel.

That is, if the reel does not have a backup anti-reverse ratchet and pawl system.


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