# Underwater Expeditions Commitment to Safety



## Wetneck68 (Dec 24, 2006)

Underwater Expeditions (UE) has a high degree of concern for the safety of our customers and the enormous degree of misinformation being spread on this message board leads me to post information which will hopefully clear up some of the issues. My name is Donna J. Phillips and I am currently serving as Operations Manager of UE Freeport; it is in this capacity that I would like to address these recent events and explain my decisions. 

First let me assure you that UE's concern for the safety of our customers is foremost. UE management, staff, and crew alike actually do care for each and every one of our customers and that is the very reason that we refuse service to anyone clearly deemed to be at abnormal risk. I believe that we absolutely have an obligation to act prudently when we become aware of individuals whose lives are clearly threatened by the extreme conditions that can exist in off-shore fishing. Additionally, when one person develops a condition which requires a coast guard evacuation, the entire group of passengers, captains, and crew, as well as the U.S. Coast Guard, face a host of additional risks related to such evacuation. 

To clarify this specific situation, the customer who was denied access to the boat, in my opinion, _has not been entirely candid_ in his statements regarding UE's recent refusal to allow him to fish on the Big E. The individual posting comments, "Snagged", was never told that he was being denied access to the fishing trip due to _age_ but _was specifically told_ that the reason he could not take this trip was due to his health condition. The individual, on two separate occasions over the past two years, experienced medical conditions requiring Coast Guard helicopter evacuation from the vessel. In addition to putting "Snagged" at risk, these evacuations presented potential hazards to the vessel's crew, the vessel's other passengers, and the members of the Coast Guard rescue team. While UE is truly complimented by the fact that "Snagged" thinks so highly of the Big E and UE's services to apparently become irate by our refusal to allow him to board the vessel for yet another offshore trip, UE simply cannot accept the potential risk to it's crew and other passengers.

It is unfortunate that "Snagged" failed to identify himself to UE as a passenger on our latest trip until two days before the trip's departure. As "Snagged" is aware, he was notified of our decision within hours of our learning that he intended to be a passenger. To have provided any other answer would, in my opinion, have clearly been negligent behavior, affecting the safety of _both this individual and all others aboard the vessel_. UE is committed to providing the finest and safest fishing experience in the entire Gulf Coast to all of its guests and will not stray from these commitments. 

Finally, please note that there seems to be a huge "mob-mentality" taking place here. In our defense, please understand that_ all_ of UE's owners, employees and crew members are Texas Gulf Coast residents who thoroughly enjoy fishing with others who love the sport. We understand your concern for your fellow fisherman and we are likewise sorry for his medical condition. We are, however, surprised that "Snagged" has shown so little concern for the potential effect his condition might have on his fellow guests and the vessel's crew. For those of you who can understand our responsibility to protect both the individual fisherman and the group as well, we will always welcome you aboard!


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## Hughoo222 (Aug 24, 2005)

Donna, ever hear of peeing in your cornflakes? Bad PR move Donna, thing about us fishermen is we stick together! You might have done well to quell this while it was just a grumbling.....you showed very little game by waiting and I doubt your well written essay will change many minds. *See, WE were upset when Elliots sold the operation, WE fought the feds and are still fighting them....WE brought Tuna fishing to it's current level of interest in TEXAS and WE will not be using your boat. *


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## hawgs (May 22, 2006)

I don't have a horse in this race, but I am curious... Underwater Expeditions defines heat exhaustion as a health condition? 

I'm 26 and have suffered from minor heat exhaustion when fishing too hard one day and not drinking enough water. I suppose I should look elsewhere if I was interested in fishing on a large charter boat? It seems to me that taking anyone out on your boat would be a risk. Without looking at each customers medical history, you'd be hard pressed to know which customers have a history of heart problems that could potentially put UE at risk. We all accept risk when we're out on the water. It seems to me that your company should look into better ways to avoid that risk than just cherry picking healthy people that had a fluke issue at sea and banning them from your boat.


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## warlock (Mar 27, 2006)

Sounds like your decision was a tough one but ultimately the correct one for all parties involved...also in light of three Coast Gaurdsmen losing their lives today in a aviation rescue training event, practicing to do just what has transpired in the instance in the past makes it even more of an impact to this former CSAR pilot. I have done several trips on the Big E a couple of years back...I will book again soon...sounds like the new ownership will make sure my safety is not compromised.


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## bevo/fishing/hunting (May 10, 2005)

I don't have a dog in this fight either.. and I have chosen not to comment until both sides have been heard, but if he has been in trouble with heat exhaustion, or whatever, twice having to be evacuated like she states, I wouldn't won't him on my boat either. 2 sides to every story, glad to hear their side. Too bad it had to come to this for everyone involved.


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## diveback (Jan 29, 2007)

I don't have a horse in the race either, however what happened to the "right to refuse service". Also put your self in their shoes, sure he pays his money but so do 40 more people. They go to fish not watch&;a coast guard rescue take place. Put your self in their shoes. You paid almost a grand to fish and you don't get to because they had to take a poor sole in that got sick.


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## trodery (Sep 13, 2006)

warlock said:


> Sounds like your decision was a tough one but ultimately the correct one for all parties involved...also in light of three Coast Gaurdsmen losing their lives today in a aviation rescue training event, practicing to do just what has transpired in the instance in the past makes it even more of an impact to this former CSAR pilot. I have done several trips on the Big E a couple of years back...I will book again soon...*sounds like the new ownership will make sure my safety is not compromised*.


I wonder just how they will make sure your safety is not compromised? How is that even possible? The act of living is a safety compromise.

Just one question to Donna... In light of your recent decesion to not allow this passenger onboard your vessel, will you now be screening each and every passenger before boarding?


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## bevo/fishing/hunting (May 10, 2005)

Are the reds really necessary for her? wow!


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## Hughoo222 (Aug 24, 2005)

vBulletin MessageYou must spread some Reputation around before giving it to hawgs again.
​


hawgs said:


> I don't have a horse in this race, but I am curious... Underwater Expeditions defines heat exhaustion as a health condition?
> 
> I'm 26 and have suffered from minor heat exhaustion when fishing too hard one day and not drinking enough water. I suppose I should look elsewhere if I was interested in fishing on a large charter boat? It seems to me that taking anyone out on your boat would be a risk. Without looking at each customers medical history, you'd be hard pressed to know which customers have a history of heart problems that could potentially put UE at risk. We all accept risk when we're out on the water. It seems to me that your company should look into better ways to avoid that risk than just cherry picking healthy people that had a fluke issue at sea and banning them from your boat.


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## Gilbert (May 25, 2004)

bevo/fishing/hunting said:


> Are the reds really necessary for her? wow!


no joke. reds are serious business sad3sm


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## Mako Mike (Jun 8, 2006)

If the "Medical condition" prompting evacuation was in fact "dehydration", with all that has been said, would you really expect any of his fellow 2 coolers would allow him to become dehydrated on this trip?

Lack of class & reasoning regardless how well you can write a rebuttal.

Warlock, I can't disagree with you more. I don't leave my diabetic father in law at the dock because he might go into diabetic shock when his blood sugar plummets, or his insulin falls overboard, I just make sure he has his meter, pills, shots, candy, whatever, make sure my radio works and know the CG has my back. Sounds a bit to me like your complaining because of a perceive increase in risk the CG will have to do the thing that they are tasked to do... bit like biting the hand that feeds you don't you think? You accept the risk of possibility of loss of life in that line of work, so when the statistics catch up with someone, you shouldn't cry foul and point fingers at those very people you agree to serve. Offshore fishing is no wiener's sport, every time you step foot on a boat, make sure you may well loose your life. Best thing we can do is plan for the contingency (rafts, EPIRB's, med kits, ship to VHF radio & sat phones).

UE... Jerry not being entirely candid, I don't see anywhere in your post above where I learned some additional bit of information that exonerates UE from Jerry holding back something... he was entirely candid. He just dismissed it because of the "Mitigating circumstances" - IE, BIG *** FISH THAT WOULD PUT THE SMACK DOWN ON THE ELITEST OF SOLDIERS. Two separate occasions he became exhausted and passed out from dehydration? During my 11 years of marriage I have passed out probably half a dozen times from dehydration and exhaustion while having sex, doesn't mean I don't saddle up as often as I can!

Have Jerry sign a liability waiver, DNR form, and authorization for a burial at see. Wherever they kick him overboard, mark the spot and make it an annual fishing trip to the Jerry Reef where you can get "Snagged". That's perpetuating job security right there!

All that said, there is a simple solution... Jerry needs to use an electric reel and get snagged! :biggrin:


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## Syncerus (Oct 18, 2005)

Once is an accident, twice is a pattern. The UE position isn't unreasonable.


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## Mako Mike (Jun 8, 2006)

Syncerus said:


> Once is an accident, twice is a pattern. The UE position isn't unreasonable.


Actually, once is an accident, twice is mad skills fishing. Friggin pessimistic glass half empty people... I swear!

It's not that the week is almost over, but that the weekend is about to begin!


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## Crossroads (May 21, 2004)

I'm not aware of this happening other than the Big E trip once. Where did that info come from?


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## Roby (Jul 12, 2005)

It has been my experience with fellow fisherman that dehydration is often caused by excessive alcohol consumption. If the customer was pulled off the boat by the Coat Guard twice for ANY medical reason I wouldn't want him on my boat. Sorry guys, but I have taken numerous people fishing. If they can't cut the mustard they don't get invited back.


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## hockeyref999 (Aug 12, 2005)

I don't know what exactly happened, but if the guy is really in that poor health, he should stay on land for his own good. I agree that other passengers and the CG should not be put at risk if he really has a known condition that has required two evacuations.

Seems to be an unusual amount of hostility towards the vendor, so maybe I don't have all of the facts.


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## Hughoo222 (Aug 24, 2005)

You may not think so....but I can assure you that it will hurt them where it count$. It is going to be a looooong winter.



Syncerus said:


> Once is an accident, twice is a pattern. The UE position isn't unreasonable.


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## Hughoo222 (Aug 24, 2005)

Jerry does not drink......bad move on your part!


Roby said:


> It has been my experience with fellow fisherman that dehydration is often caused by excessive alcohol consumption. If the customer was pulled off the boat by the Coat Guard twice for ANY medical reason I wouldn't want him on my boat. Sorry guys, but I have taken numerous people fishing. If they can't cut the mustard they don't get invited back.


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## drfishalot (Sep 9, 2004)

Fool me once, shame on you........

get the popcorn, this is getting good.

1 CG rescue could happen to anyone, twice happens to only any elite few I would guess. I'm with Warlock.


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## bevo/fishing/hunting (May 10, 2005)

hughoo222,

Do you have to call everyone out who disagrees with you? That's really not cool!


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## roundman (May 21, 2004)

i go offshore a couple times a year,, in 2001 i ended up with a treacheaostomy tube in my throat, i KNOW if the boat starts to sink or if i fall overboard i will probably drown no doubt,,, i dont know how many of you know about a tracheaostomy but water will suck in it so fast your head would swim, BUT i love to fish offshore for big snapper etc,, and that is a chance and decision i am willing to make and take, so i guess a person with a treacheaostomy is not allowed on the big e,, does not matter thou im happy with which boat i do go on when i do go !


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## Bill Fisher (Apr 12, 2006)

Mako Mike said:


> During my 11 years of marriage I have passed out probably half a dozen times from dehydration and exhaustion while having sex, doesn't mean I don't saddle up as often as I can!


have you told your wife about this yet?...........







......









sorry,...... couldn't resist









i say weird things when someone whizzizz down my back and tells me it's raining


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## Mako Mike (Jun 8, 2006)

Roby said:


> If they can't cut the mustard they don't get invited back.





hockeyref999 said:


> ...if the guy is really in that poor health, he should stay on land for his own good. Seems to be an unusual amount of hostility towards the vendor, so maybe I don't have all of the facts.


Could you cut the mustard?
Poor health huh?

I am sure his obituary when he does kick it will read: "On several occasions, he battled monster fish, and although his epic battle with the gilled demon brought him to the brink of death, he prevailed, earning him the respect & endearment of his comrades".

FYI, this is one of the 2 "Mitigating cicumstances" I spoke of earlier. Was aout 100# if I remember correcty.


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## Kenner21 (Aug 25, 2005)

Just looking at that amberjack makes me want to fall down on the floor and pass out.


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## Roby (Jul 12, 2005)

Hughoo222 said:


> Jerry does not drink......bad move on your part!


My point exactly, if he drank more he would not get dehydrated.......


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## roundman (May 21, 2004)

that is a big @@@ aj,, im sure if id pulled up that brute , my left nad wouldnt have come down yet !!


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## Snagged (May 21, 2004)

Wetneck68 said:


> Underwater Expeditions (UE) has a high degree of concern for the safety of our customers and the enormous degree of misinformation being spread on this message board leads me to post information which will hopefully clear up some of the issues. My name is Donna J. Phillips and I am currently serving as Operations Manager of UE Freeport; it is in this capacity that I would like to address these recent events and explain my decisions.
> 
> First let me assure you that UE's concern for the safety of our customers is foremost. UE management, staff, and crew alike actually do care for each and every one of our customers and that is the very reason that we refuse service to anyone clearly deemed to be at abnormal risk. I believe that we absolutely have an obligation to act prudently when we become aware of individuals whose lives are clearly threatened by the extreme conditions that can exist in off-shore fishing. Additionally, when one person develops a condition which requires a coast guard evacuation, the entire group of passengers, captains, and crew, as well as the U.S. Coast Guard, face a host of additional risks related to such evacuation.
> 
> ...


 To start off with the reason I was given on the phone was "due to age and health" by you Donna.
Second I was Medivaced on one (1) occasion only and that was for dehydration.
Three: This was a private charter and I had paid in full some time ago.
Your company has no reason for the action taken against me.


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## Snagged (May 21, 2004)

bevo/fishing/hunting said:


> I don't have a dog in this fight either.. and I have chosen not to comment until both sides have been heard, but if he has been in trouble with heat exhaustion, or whatever, twice having to be evacuated like she states, I wouldn't won't him on my boat either. 2 sides to every story, glad to hear their side. Too bad it had to come to this for everyone involved.


 She is making false statements. I was taken off the one time and that was due to dehydration.


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## 11andy11 (Aug 12, 2004)

If the guy had to get evacuated twice by helo off their boat far out at sea I don't think its unreasonable for UE to restrict him from going on the boat. What do you think the CG is going to say if it happened a third time. What happens if they bill UE for the helo trip because they knowly took someone out that had to be rescued BY HELO twice before. Its not personal but you know this is a business and sometimes you have to make tough decisions to mitigate risk. Sounds like an unfortunate issue for both sides. I hope the best bor both parties.

edit: just saw snagged says once Donna says twice. Somebody don't know their facts here.


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## Hughoo222 (Aug 24, 2005)

No I do not....fact is I trust Jerry, his character is that of an upstanding guy. I also have issue with a boat that is kept in business through the efforts of myself and others fighting for fair access and fishing regulations...so to see one of my brothers in arms treated unfairly I tend to get a wee bit ticked. They are a dive operation 1st and rely on 2cool and fishermen for their other business, the fishing income allows them to be a dive operation. Elliots sold the boat due to tough fishing times, I lobbied TPW and used them as an example of how tough things are....hell I want them to stay afloat but it is hard when they toss a brother under the bus.

I also think their are others involved who missed a chance to take a stand. I have fished next to many a youngster as well as old dudes...they all get sick....especially if they whip 2 90 pound plus AJ's back to back in the heat.

The other thing is I have yet to see where UE tried to work it out with a waiver or otherwise (though I understand time was short), to deny a man his passion and others an opportunity to share in his knowledge is pure **** in my book. I can only hope when I am deemed to unfit to fish it is handled by much classier folks.

So yeah....I think it is a crock! And I tend to stick to my guns as we all well know!



bevo/fishing/hunting said:


> hughoo222,
> 
> Do you have to call everyone out who disagrees with you? That's really not cool!


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## Chase This! (Jul 20, 2007)

It is my understanding that Jerry has NO medical conditions as stated by his doctor. Who is UE to proclaim he has an existing medical condition when his DOCTOR says he does not?

Where does the TWO helo rides come from, Donna?

Since when can you refuse service based on age? Isn't that discrimination?

I hope UE refunded the money the instant they refused service.

Brandon


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## Snagged (May 21, 2004)

Hughoo222 said:


> Jerry does not drink......bad move on your part!


 Not true. I am a very lite drinker, one beer on a fishing trip, a glass of red wine with dinner.


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## tngbmt (May 30, 2004)

if UE has initiated a 'no pass' on a customer, UE should notify that customer upon that decision, verbal or in written, to prevent such person from purchasing their spot. they should not wait until they see such person on their passenger list to decide. this decision to ban Snagg from this trip was totally unfair to Snagg. the tuna fishing group here would agree that the anticipation to the trip with all our preps, gear & tackle purchases is compatable to a second honeymoon. the disappointment when cancelled due to uncontrolled circumstances (weather) is enormous, but acceptable. to be denied days before the trip because of some 'enlightened' concept of safety cooked up last minute is totally BS. i agree with the need for such action for safety and it should be SOP, but i am always against the 'make up policy as you go' procedure without consideration for the individuals involved.


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## Hughoo222 (Aug 24, 2005)

Well compared to some....you really don't drink.lol

Just debunking the myth that alcohol had any hand in the matter.



Snagged said:


> Not true. I am a very lite drinker, one beer on a fishing trip, a glass of red wine with dinner.


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## Snagged (May 21, 2004)

11andy11 said:


> If the guy had to get evacuated twice by helo off their boat far out at sea I don't think its unreasonable for UE to restrict him from going on the boat. What do you think the CG is going to say if it happened a third time. What happens if they bill UE for the helo trip because they knowly took someone out that had to be rescued BY HELO twice before. Its not personal but you know this is a business and sometimes you have to make tough decisions to mitigate risk. Sounds like an unfortunate issue for both sides. I hope the best bor both parties.
> 
> edit: just saw snagged says once Donna says twice. Somebody don't know their facts here.


 Donna apparently has a serious problem with reality. I know how many times I've been in chopers in the last 40 years, once. Don't ask about before that.


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## Chase This! (Jul 20, 2007)

Wetneck68 said:


> My name is Donna J. Phillips and I am currently serving as Operations Manager of UE Freeport.


Maybe not for long. The damage done to UE will not be easily reversed.

Brandon


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## Gilbert (May 25, 2004)

Hughoo222 said:


> No I do not....fact is I trust Jerry, his character is that of an upstanding guy. I also have issue with a boat that is kept in business through the efforts of myself and others fighting for fair access and fishing regulations...so to see one of my brothers in arms treated unfairly I tend to get a wee bit ticked. They are a dive operation 1st and rely on 2cool and fishermen for their other business, the fishing income allows them to be a dive operation. Elliots sold the boat due to tough fishing times, I lobbied TPW and used them as an example of how tough things are....hell I want them to stay afloat but it is hard when they toss a brother under the bus.
> 
> I also think their are others involved who missed a chance to take a stand. I have fished next to many a youngster as well as old dudes...they all get sick....especially if they whip 2 90 pound plus AJ's back to back in the heat.
> 
> ...


so if he signs a waiver, if something happens to him again, they don't have to call the CG out?  I really don't see what a medical waiver will do any good 150 miles out in sea. Do I think its wrong that he can't go, sure, but I also see the boat owners position if the CG has been called out for him 2 times. Private charter or not.


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## Chase This! (Jul 20, 2007)

Gilbert said:


> also see the boat owners position if the CG has been called out for him 2 times. Private charter or not.


ONCE. Donna's attempt to lead the public to believe this has happend twice should be considered slander.

Jerry, you need to be thinking lawyer is they don't make this right.

Brandon


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## bevo/fishing/hunting (May 10, 2005)

So where did the idea that twice snagged has been evacuated from their boat by chopper come from? I'm just curious because IMHO that is important in deciding what UE is saying is excusable or not.


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## Chase This! (Jul 20, 2007)

*SLANDER*

"words falsely spoken that damage the reputation of another "

The shoe fits in this case.


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## Snagged (May 21, 2004)

Gilbert said:


> so if he signs a waiver, if something happens to him again, they don't have to call the CG out?  I really don't see what a medical waiver will do any good 150 miles out in sea. Do I think its wrong that he can't go, sure, but I also see the boat owners position if the *CG has been called out for him 2 times.* Private charter or not.


 *False statement, repeat one (1) time for dehydration.*


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## Gilbert (May 25, 2004)

Chase This! said:


> ONCE. Donna's attempt to lead the public to believe this has happend twice should be considered slander.
> 
> Jerry, you need to be thinking lawyer is they don't make this right.
> 
> Brandon


just going by what I read in the first post.


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## robul (Apr 26, 2007)

And to think I was going to book a charter for my company with these guys..Good thing theres plenty of other boats in Port Aransas. Its too bad I wont considering half of the guys are late 50s early 60s.... Im only 29 years old and I puked and almost passed out after fighting a white marlin in the Domincan. I guess I have a medical problem as well.


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## Aggie (May 27, 2004)

Who was it that caught the large mako after having cardio vascular surgery a few weeks earlier...wasnt that you jerry?


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## Hughoo222 (Aug 24, 2005)

Jerry, I have a good friend who does a good deal of work for Exxon.....maybe I need to introduce you guys.



Chase This! said:


> ONCE. Donna's attempt to lead the public to believe this has happend twice should be considered slander.
> 
> Jerry, you need to be thinking lawyer is they don't make this right.
> 
> Brandon


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## Snagged (May 21, 2004)

Aggie said:


> Who was it that caught the large mako after having cardio vascular surgery a few weeks earlier...wasnt that you jerry?


 Do you mean this 500 + ?


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## Chase This! (Jul 20, 2007)

Jerry, did you get your money back.....just curious.


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## Snagged (May 21, 2004)

Chase This! said:


> Jerry, did you get your money back.....just curious.


 Not yet, but TOO I think TOO is honest and will refund it.


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## Wetneck68 (Dec 24, 2006)

*Final Response*



Our policy statement regarding our right of refusal of service regarding medical conditions is as follows:



Deep sea fishing can be a stressful and risky activity and one of UE's obligations is to minimize the degree of risk. Beginning in July of this year, one of our policies requires every passenger on every UE vessel to sign a statement that they are *unaware of any* medical condition which would prevent them from safely undertaking an offshore fishing excursion. We certainly do not, in a normal course of events, require any type of confirmation regarding medical condition other than this self-reporting mechanism. In certain situations, however, it may come to the attention of management, the captain(s) and/or the crew that a particular individual exhibits specific signs of ill health which could threaten a life in an off-shore environment. When UE management does *become aware* of serious health issues which threaten the life of a customer, we believe it becomes our responsibility to take every action possible to mitigate that risk. 



Just a final response to your questions and comments here. First, the passenger's condition was way beyond dehydration and the posts implying that was the case were inaccurate. Based on reports of the coast guard, physicians on the Big E on the day of the last evacuation, etc., the gentleman was unconscious for over an hour and had no pulse for 20 minutes.



Thanks to all of you have displayed an interest in our opinion. We will not be posting further information on this fishing forum, but I'll be happy to answer any e-mails. Just address your questions to [email protected].


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## Aggie (May 27, 2004)

yep thats the hoss

i wish you could have gone on the trip. that being said i am in several heart casses every week and if they think the exaustion was related to cardio vascular in any way...i can understand their decision. 

you can fish off chicken juice any time you want..then again i am not a business and have less liability


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## Unbound (Jul 12, 2004)

Adios!


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## Kauffballs (Jun 2, 2004)

Sounds like most of us jumped to conclusions before we heard the rest of the story. I was thinking when reading this that it just dose not make any business cents to not allow a man that got a little dehydrated on the trip. The fisherman left out a few SMALL facts...CHOPPER. There is always more to the story. Sounds like he is only thinking of himself and not on the potental impact on everyone else. I know most were just sticking up for a fellow fisherman but being a fisherman he left out some of the facts. I will be back on the BIG E for more great trips and would have been ****** (as long as he was ok) if this man had to be rescued a third time. Sorry if this sounds harsh but try to put yourself in their shoes....Think about it.


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## bzrk180 (Jan 7, 2008)

Although I understand the anger felt by "snagged" I also have to play devils advocate on this and consider the business end of the decision.

Rarely ever is a business person able to satisfy every customer so in regards to that, you want to do what you can to please the whole, or the majority... If this business saw (clear or unclear) that there was a possibility that they are placing their vesssel, crew and patrons at risk and this was *truly *what they felt then the decision was valid in my opinion.

I find it hard to beleive that a business singled you out for any specific reason. I would think that the options were weighed and they went with what they* FELT* was best for everyone.

If you got your money back and were maybe compensated for anything other that you put into this deal then why so much hate towards this. One incident in regards to safety (bases on the business' statement here) does not constitute bias or discrimination.

Its great that Snagged has so many people who support and care for him but how can you attack a business for making what THEY FELT was a good business move for them?

Now, if they would have refused compensation, told you in an unprofessional manner that you werent allowed on the vessel (ie...Cuz we said so, thats why) or were treated disrespectfully (which I didnt see "disrespect" in eaither story presented about the refusal) then I could understand working to deter business from an organization... Is this reallyw hat happened here?

Just my .02 (and it usually doesnt mean anything...LOL)


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## Charles Helm (Oct 22, 2004)

Wetneck68 said:


> the gentleman was unconscious for over an hour* and had no pulse for 20 minutes*.


That must be a record...


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## Texas T (May 21, 2004)

> Based on reports of the coast guard, physicians on the Big E on the day of the last evacuation, etc., the gentleman was unconscious for over an hour and *had no pulse for 20 minutes*.


Jerry you must be related to a cat with nine lives. No pulse for 20 minutes and the onboard physician didn't even perform CPR on you, he's the one they shouldn't let back on. No pulse equals dead for most people. It is evident that the UE people don't have a clue. If this is the way they operate I would never set foot onboard to fish much less dive that boat.


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## Chase This! (Jul 20, 2007)

Wetneck68 said:


> the gentleman was unconscious for over an hour and had no pulse for 20 minutes.


First, the "gentleman" has a name.

Second, no pulse for 20 minutes?!? Was CPR performed? Irreversible brain damage begins at 8 minutes.

You think perhaps 20 minutes is a stretch?


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## marine0311 (Apr 11, 2008)

*Wow.....put out your torches.*

Ok guys.......I dont know Snagged or UE so here is an outside opinion about this ordeal. Without involving emotions and personal relationships could you honestly say that as an owner of a company you would want to take the risk of letting someone back on your boat after having the Coast Guard evac them on their prior visit(s). Given the amount of lawsuit happy individuals in this country I could honestly say that I would not. The company is liable for the safety of the individual as well as the rest of the guests and there has to be some sort of risk assessment when taking on the type of responsibility a charter boat does. Im sorry but dehydration is a SELF INFLICTED illness that put a lot of people at risk and is also something some sleezbag lawyer could make into UE's fault in court.

I am shocked by the amount of emotional, knee jerk responses that I have seen regarding this thread. I am also apalled by the fact that the individual involved has tried to turn this personal vendetta into a witch hunt. Find another charter boat.....its really that simple.


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## Snagged (May 21, 2004)

I never denied the medivac, I even told the captian the he made the correct decision with the information he had. 
I was walking, talking and had a heart beat (pulse) when the chopper arrived.
Got a ride from the hospital back to Freeport and waited for the boat to return.
I don't consider dehydration an "ongoing" medicial problem and neither does my doctor, he told me to drink more.


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## trodery (Sep 13, 2006)

I had to LOL at that "No pulse for 20 minutes"   

I say F*&^ em and feed them fish heads!


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## Snagged (May 21, 2004)

trodery said:


> I had to LOL at that "No pulse for 20 minutes"
> 
> I say F*&^ em and feed them fish heads!


 World record!!!


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## 8seconds (Sep 20, 2005)

My turn to jump off the fence

20 minutes without a pulse?

Evacuated 2 times, really only once?

Getting dehydrated after fighting not one, but *2* 100lb class Amberjacks (my arms and back ache at that thought!) in 100° heat being considered a medical condition?

If it looks like, Smells like, and goes Smoosh like what comes out the rear end of a Steer, it must be **** ****!

I have been frustrated with my work schedule getting in the way of going on a trip on the Big "E" before, but not anymore.

We may not have the best Party boats out of SPI, And the Dolphin Docks Boats may not be the fastest, and DSH may not be as large and luxurious, but they have two things the Current owners of the Big "E" don't have: Class, and my future business!


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## Snap Draggin (Nov 11, 2007)

Wetneck68 said:


> Underwater Expeditions (UE) has a high degree of concern for the safety of our customers and the enormous degree of misinformation being spread on this message board leads me to post information which will hopefully clear up some of the issues. My name is Donna J. Phillips and I am currently serving as Operations Manager of UE Freeport; it is in this capacity that I would like to address these recent events and explain my decisions.
> 
> First let me assure you that UE's concern for the safety of our customers is foremost. UE management, staff, and crew alike actually do care for each and every one of our customers and that is the very reason that we refuse service to anyone clearly deemed to be at abnormal risk. I believe that we absolutely have an obligation to act prudently when we become aware of individuals whose lives are clearly threatened by the extreme conditions that can exist in off-shore fishing. Additionally, when one person develops a condition which requires a coast guard evacuation, the entire group of passengers, captains, and crew, as well as the U.S. Coast Guard, face a host of additional risks related to such evacuation.
> 
> ...


Lame...simply lame, and a horribly futile attempt at saving face IMHO.


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## marine0311 (Apr 11, 2008)

8seconds said:


> Getting dehydrated after fighting not one, but *2* 100lb class Amberjacks (my arms and back ache at that thought!) in 100° heat being considered a medical condition?


No, its a self inflicted condition derived from stupid decisions.....a PREVENTABLE result that put others at risk. Thats what it is and thats how the company sees it. It helps if you say things out loud before you say them....sometimes they sound kinda dumb. Sorry for the candidness. That was directed at all the "torchbearers", not directly at you 8seconds.


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## trodery (Sep 13, 2006)

marine0311 said:


> No, its a self inflicted condition derived from stupid decisions.....a PREVENTABLE result that put others at risk. Thats what it is and thats how the company sees it. It helps if you say things out loud before you say them....sometimes they sound kinda dumb. Sorry for the candidness. That was directed at all the "torchbearers", not directly at you 8seconds.


WOW! What a nice guy you are! sad3sm

I suppose everything you have ever done in life has been without mistake, I'm sure that at your young age you know EXACTLY what to do and when.


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## Snagged (May 21, 2004)

It's interesting to note that they had my home phone number and my e-mail addy but never bother to inform me after the last trip that I would not be allowed to board their boat again.

Hey jarhead, never put out more than you thought you had? It happens before you know it.


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## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

Ms. Phillips, saying that misinformation is being spread by this website and accusing it of having a mob mentality is as inaccurate as it is asnine. Your company policy of having a blacklist of pasengers that you don't want on your boats is your business.

But, having such a list, you should have informed Texas Outdoor Outfitters of its existence from the word go, which was back in February. Willie contacted you about then to secure this slot. At that point, it would have been very simple to say *"we have a safety policy of not allowing certain people on our boats, and here is the list".* Had you done due dilligence and made that list known to Willie, absolutely none of this would have occured. I know Jerry well enough to know that he won't go where he's not wanted or welcomed and there wouldn't have been any hard feelings. Instead of that, you chose, at the very last minute to remove him from this trip. It's interesting to note that this is the 3rd TTB trip booked on those boats and the first time the existence of such a list has been made known.

All that aside, when it did actually happen, you could have simply come here, and stated that you made a mistake and didn't inform either Jerry or Willie of the fact you didn't want Jerry on your boats. Mistakes happen to all of us. At that time, offering Jerry a full refund of his money, along with the money he spent on his motel, would have been the right thing to do. It's fine to refuse service, but taking someone's money, and then refusing service is wrong, and unethical.

Jerry has spent a lot of his money fishing on your boats, and I realize some of it was with former owners. I too have spent my own money fishing them. All in all, I would venture an educated guess that 2cool has been a part of nearly $100,000 in bookings over the years since the Big E hit the water. My contact information is clearly listed on this site, and I am an easy guy to find. Even as late as yesterday, it remained a mystery to me as to why I hadn't heard one word out of you or your firm about this. I was equally mistified as to why any business would let it get so far out of hand without any attempt to rectify it.

Your questionable business practices have put TOO, myself, and others in a very uncomfortable situation. It wasn't one or two mistakes you made, but several. At any point, simply owning up to the fact you didn't disclose the existence of a blacklist of passengers would have lessened the damage you caused. Not disclosing it early on in the process is what led to this mess, period. That's all I am going to say on this subject. The boat has left the dock, it's over.


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## bill (May 21, 2004)

low post count posters and locations...funny how they seem to see things different lol makes me scratch my head


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## Lord of the Salmon (Feb 17, 2008)

ok you guys, when they say "no pulse for 20 minutes" they mean peripheral pulse (the one you take on the wrist). If you don't have that you move on to checking for heart beat which is not necessarily the same thing as a pulse. 

If dehydration gets that bad you normally need IV fluids. I'm preparing a box of stuff for my next trip so this type of **** can be dealt with properly. At the very least they should have some tetanus shots, suture material, and a couple bags of IV saline with some tubing and needles... There's almost always someone on board who knows how to use this stuff whether it is me, one of the other doctors who takes these trips, or an occasional EMT on board...


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## Texas T (May 21, 2004)

marine0311 said:


> No, its a self inflicted condition derived from stupid decisions.....a PREVENTABLE result that put others at risk. Thats what it is and thats how the company sees it. It helps if you say things out loud before you say them....sometimes they sound kinda dumb. Sorry for the candidness. That was directed at all the "torchbearers", not directly at you 8seconds.


Preventable yes Jerry could have stayed home, yes he could have cut the line on a 100 lb class fish, yes he could have had a bikini clad aide hold his gatorade while he drank it and continued the fight or try this UE could have provided, never mind. My mother said if you can't say something nice then don't say any thing at all.


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## D.L. (Sep 13, 2007)

Probably should have stayed out of this one, might have sold a few more boats..... oh well.









marine0311 said:


> No, its a self inflicted condition derived from stupid decisions.....a PREVENTABLE result that put others at risk. Thats what it is and thats how the company sees it. It helps if you say things out loud before you say them....sometimes they sound kinda dumb. Sorry for the candidness. That was directed at all the "torchbearers", not directly at you 8seconds.


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## Chase This! (Jul 20, 2007)

Lord of the Salmon said:


> If dehydration gets that bad you normally need IV fluids. I'm preparing a box of stuff for my next trip so this type of **** can be dealt with properly. At the very least they should have some tetanus shots, suture material, and a couple bags of IV saline with some tubing and needles...


you would think a boat the size of the big e could fit a few bags of saline and have trained staff to administer.


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## Snap Draggin (Nov 11, 2007)

I said it on the other thread and I will say it again here. Jerry (Snagged) you are welcome aboard the Cat-A-Lac any time you are in Southeast Texas.


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## Snap Draggin (Nov 11, 2007)

D.L. said:


> Probably should have stayed out of this one, might have sold a few more boats..... oh well.


The meter is pegged. He is off the scale.


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## Snagged (May 21, 2004)

Chase This! said:


> you would think a boat the size of the big e could fit a few bags of saline and have trained staff to administer.


 No doubt they could, but that would mean they were really concerned about health and welfare of their clients, wouldn't it?


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## jig (Aug 2, 2005)

marine0311 said:


> No, its a self inflicted condition derived from stupid decisions.....a PREVENTABLE result that put others at risk. Thats what it is and thats how the company sees it. It helps if you say things out loud before you say them....sometimes they sound kinda dumb. Sorry for the candidness. That was directed at all the "torchbearers", not directly at you 8seconds.


This may be a little late, but I believe in another post you asked us to remind you not to **** anyone off here. I think you just may have done so....


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## Sharkweek40 (Feb 8, 2008)

*Pretty Sad*



trodery said:


> I had to LOL at that "No pulse for 20 minutes"
> 
> I say F*&^ em and feed them fish heads!


If you are going to joke around about people not having a pulse for 20 minutes that is pretty ridiculous. I think that all businesses have the right to refuse sevice to whomever they choose. I DO NOT think this is an age discrimination. Put yourselves in this companies shoes..really..I personally would not want that to happen if I owned a boat like the Big E. I have gone on a lot of day trips with them and everyone down there seems very professional and nice...

just throughing my 2 cents out there......


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## Snagged (May 21, 2004)

It's easy to joke about no pulse for 20 minutes as NO pulse equals no heartbeat.

The captian, crew and most of the office people are.


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## Bill Fisher (Apr 12, 2006)

Sharkweek40 said:


> just throughing my 2 cents out there......


that's okay,.......... i think we can make ¢hange


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## Lord of the Salmon (Feb 17, 2008)

Snagged said:


> No doubt they could, but that would mean they were really concerned about health and welfare of their clients, wouldn't it?


I would settle for them having some tetanus shots, a vial of lidocaine and maybe some suture. It ****** me off to have to leave the hook in that guy's hand last Memorial day and not have a tetanus booster to give him. I will give him credit, he fished the whole trip with part of about a 15-O in his right hand...


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## trodery (Sep 13, 2006)

Snagged said:


> It's easy to joke about no pulse for 20 minutes as NO pulse equals no heartbeat.
> 
> The captian, crew and most of the office people are.


OK....who is logged on under Snagged's account? It can't be Jerry cuz he had no pulse for 20 minutes


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## Snagged (May 21, 2004)

trodery said:


> OK....who is logged on under Snagged's account? It can't be Jerry cuz he had no pulse for 20 minutes


 I'm using a thermal siphon instead. :slimer: :rotfl:


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## Pocboy (Aug 12, 2004)

There should be a disclaimer on this post that you will get redded up if you defend this company in any way. Kind of sad but to each his own. With that being said here goes...
I can understand snagged's frustration and I agree with a lot of his reasons for being mad at this business. I am not trying to defend them, or maybe I am, but I have seen nothing on here that is negative about them except for this issue. If so many people were ready to book this boat and have since changed their mind because of this one issue then why is that? There is a lot of passion here regarding this issue so maybe there is more to it than some of us know about.


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## trodery (Sep 13, 2006)

Sharkweek40 said:


> It must be nice to sit around all day like a bunch of old hen's and gossip....this is getting old...


You do realize that you are not being forced to view this thread don't you? You do have a choice not to come read it.


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## 8seconds (Sep 20, 2005)

marine0311 said:


> No, its a self inflicted condition derived from stupid decisions.....a PREVENTABLE result that put others at risk.


A couple of years back *I* was stupid enough to take on *7* amberjacks up to 50lbs in one 12 hr fishing trip. *I* deliberately was targeting said fish and *I* paid the price in the form of being unable to lift my arms until I got back to the dock and for the following days in the form of extreme sorenesss. Notice *I* said that *I* made the stupid choice and *I* paid the price. That was a self inflicted condition as a result of stupid Decisions.

When Snagged (Jerry) caught said 100lb class Amberjacks he was targeting Grouper both times. read the thread associated with the trip in question. It was pure stupid luck that he hapened to hook up with not 1, but two 100lb class AJ's one after the other. From personal experience I know that Grouper are alot easier to fight than amberjack of similar size. Also hooking up with 1 amberjack in the 100lb class is a rare event. Much less two in a row.

Have you ever caught a large amberjack? Much less several in a row. Or any other hard charging stubborn fish? this could have happened to anyone no matter how good or how poor their physical condition. The management at UE just decided to handle the situation in an exceedingy poor manner which is why I will not do business with them.


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## BradP (May 24, 2004)

I defend UE!! It's a private boat they can do what they want, I wouldn't want someone who has had 2 incidents with a CG chopper involved either. They go out too far to and in waters not that accessible in case of a problem to have issues.


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## Steelersfan (May 21, 2004)

*...*



Pocboy said:


> There should be a disclaimer on this post that you will get redded up if you defend this company in any way. Kind of sad but to each his own. With that being said here goes...
> I can understand snagged's frustration and I agree with a lot of his reasons for being mad at this business. I am not trying to defend them, or maybe I am, but I have seen nothing on here that is negative about them except for this issue. If so many people were ready to book this boat and have since changed their mind because of this one issue then why is that? There is a lot of passion here regarding this issue so maybe there is more to it than some of us know about.


I think it comes down to this; the chicken #### company decided to pull this 2 or 3 days before departure and not 2 weeks, 4 weeks or a month or more ago when they most likely knew who was going to be on the boat, thus giving no time to find a replacement and, possibly not even offering to refund the $ to TOO and then to Snagged (Jerry). I can see both sides of the fence from the business standpoint and from Snagged's. I don't think dehydration is considered and ongoing "medical" condition in anyone's book but, they did have to airlift him off the boat on one occassion. That being said, they better maintain a consistent policy and would probably be better served asking for a medical history from people before boarding if they truly want to protect themselves. By the way, I scanned their website rather briefly and nowhere did I see mention of this "policy".

The only resolution at this point I would think is to have UE refund the $ to TOO (since TOO has already refunded Snagged) and offer a public apology to snagged, TOO and the board. Somehow, I don't think that will happen. Damage has most likely been done though and as the saying goes, you reap what you sow.

There are some other mitigating factors splashed about in this thread and the other but I think that is it in a nutshell, snagged got a royal reaming without the use of vaseline....


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## Swells (Nov 27, 2007)

Well ya know, I don't spend my money and go offshore thinking "gee, I really want some SMALL fish today, easy to crank in." 

No, you go out on the deep for monstrous fish and you could end up fighting it for an hour or more ... if you're lucky to hook-em-up. Now you're telling me that's a BAD decision? 

Zane Grey and all them big fishers are rolling in the graves. Be sure to use small hooks, gentlemens, we don't want ya passing out on us!


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## Pocboy (Aug 12, 2004)

Steeler, I can't argue with that and I sure hope they find a better way to deal with situations like this. BTW, who or what is TOO? BTW, I was right about the reds...thanks slap dragqueen and megabite for showing how easy you are.


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## Snagged (May 21, 2004)

BradP said:


> I defend UE!! It's a private boat they can do what they want, I wouldn't want someone who has had 2 incidents with a CG chopper involved either. They go out too far to and in waters not that accessible in case of a problem to have issues.


 Brad,
Do you repeat lies every time you hear/read them?


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## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

Let's put this one to rest. The boat has left, it's over. I just received a reply from Ms. Phillips via email that's as pathetic as the rest of her handling of this event. Suffice it to say, I doubt they will make any attempt at making this right. 

I just spent an hour on the phone with TOO (Texas Outdoor Organizers, aka, Willy) and don't want any of my earlier posts to make any of this situation to seem like it's any of his doing. It's a simple fact that Ms. Phillips nor her firm made anyone aware of any blacklisted passengers until less than a few days prior to the trip. I can't do anything about it, nor can Willy. TOO will have my support and is welcome on 2cool as always. He's not to blame here.


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