# Should TPW Change Possession Limits?



## whsalum (Mar 4, 2013)

It's a slow time of year for topics so this should be a good one to draw opinions. With the advancements in technology in the fishing industry, especially in electronics and trolling motors, should Texas Parks and Wildlife revisit possession limits on freshwater lakes? Curious what ya'll think?


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## Sgrem (Oct 5, 2005)

What would they be improving or protecting or preventing by doing so??


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## I'llbecoastin (Apr 18, 2016)

whsalum said:


> It's a slow time of year for topics so this should be a good one to draw opinions. With the advancements in technology in the fishing industry, especially in electronics and trolling motors, should Texas Parks and Wildlife revisit possession limits on freshwater lakes? Curious what ya'll think?


Are you referring to daily bag limits or the possession limit, which is twice the daily bag limit?


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## Captn C (May 21, 2004)

I'm basically new to freshwater fishing and was really surprised at the daily bag limits of White Bass and Crappie.

So I self imposed a increase in the length limit on White Bass to 11.5 inches without squeezing the tail. If the bite is slow we will keep some Whites just under that, but the vast majority of the time it's not necessary. 

The length limit for Crappie is most likely fine, but 25 per person seems like a lot of fish. 25 White Bass seems kind of high too.

My increase in retaining size has kept us from reaching the state bad limit and I'm good with the numbers we bring in. 

Would there be any benifit in any increases? Doesn't look like it from what I've seen. 

I know White Bass don't live very long (4 to 5 years), so I'm not sure it would improve the age structure like it should.


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## whsalum (Mar 4, 2013)

sgrem said:


> What would they be improving or protecting or preventing by doing so??


I'm not advocating the reduction in daily bag or possession limits of any particular species. Just throwing the question out there for all species in general.
With the advancement especially of depthfinders the view we get now is unreal.


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## whsalum (Mar 4, 2013)

I'llbecoastin said:


> Are you referring to daily bag limits or the possession limit, which is twice the daily bag limit?


Just a general question , probably daily bag limits would be the first to be studied. With the improvements we've seen in our tools just curious if TPW has looked at harvest estimates on all species.


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## fishinganimal (Mar 30, 2006)

I don't think they will. The fish with the higher bag limits they are not concerned about. Reproduce at astounding rates and as you said short life expectancy. They do regulate Blacks more because of the numbers and a few others.


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## saved (Feb 1, 2014)

whsalum said:


> It's a slow time of year for topics so this should be a good one to draw opinions. With the advancements in technology in the fishing industry, especially in electronics and trolling motors, should Texas Parks and Wildlife revisit possession limits on freshwater lakes? Curious what ya'll think?


They should lower some and end others like commercial allowed to take large amounts of bait fish.


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## denimdeerslayer (Feb 23, 2012)

Lots of crazy talk I see. I say everything is fine like it is and leave it alone!!! If you dont want that many then fine. Dont mess with those of us who actually like eating fish.


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## shadslinger (Aug 21, 2005)

No species I know of is in trouble from overfishing by legal means, no matter how great the underwater view ( and it has become unreal!) anglers only keeping the legal limit has not hurt the population. And will now keeping only the legal limit.

What the new generation of sonar/down/side/live time view units have done is make it harder for people to catch fish as the fish adapt to new technologies.
That has been happening since there have been people fishing.
If you are old enough to remember when the daily bag limit for LMB was 15 with a minimum size of 12" you will also remember it was nothing to go catch 30 a day on a bad day.
Then B.A.S.S. came long and created a market for those who needed an identity tag in their life.
Next thing you know there were frigging bass boats roaring and churning the lakes, new baits came out every other day, and the bass got harder and harder to catch.
It takes professionals to catch them on most lakes now, lol!
That's the way it goes, new technologies make them easier to catch for a while, until they adapt.


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## cajunasian (Mar 7, 2007)

Not everyone gets to go fishing regularly. I myself find it harder everyday to catch fish while sitting behind my computer working. I've been catching my fish at the local fish markets and dreaming of a free day to go fishing. I say the limits are fine and agree with Shadslinger.


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## SeaOx 230C (Aug 12, 2005)

I see no need to change white bass or crappie limits. Where I fish most folks don't catch a limit even when the fish practically jumping in the boat.


The life cycle of white bass is such that it would be very difficult if not impossible to impact them with rod and reel fishing. They are very very prolific spawners, they only live about 5 years. And I would bet a lot of folks only regularly target them during the run and catch very few after that.


As for length..... I don't keep any that I have to measure. If it does not look of legal length back it goes.


As for the new technology. Well technology is only as good as the user. The big majority of folks that have the latest and greatest gadgets can't effectively use them. And those that can were already catching all the fish they wanted before they bought the new stuff. My fish finder is a bit over 15 years old and shows me all I need to catch fish. Do I want the new one anyway? Sure do.


I have watched people with the best depth finder money can buy run out of water and hit bottom because they don't use it. They never even look.


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## Mattsfishin (Aug 23, 2009)

All these youngsters with their high faloottin equipment. Heck you don't need all that just go follow a guide and potluck off of him like the hundreds of so called fishermen do. They need to put a limit on potlickers and the distance they would have to stay back unless invited. 
I don't have the latest and greatest electronics but I get lucky and catch a few when I need to. BUT I have been looking at the new stuff.
If they did have a limit I could see a seasonal limit for whites on Livingston say June, July, and August. Maybe cut back to 15 per person. But as mentioned Livingston does not have a problem at this time except for Blacks. They seem to be a little harder to find.
Ok I think I have said tooooo much already and will get back to what I was doing.


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## fishonkev (Jan 28, 2011)

As a few of you have mentioned, Keeping the limits where they are is my vote. I too throw back most under 12" and I don't always keep my limit, sometimes none at all. It depends on whats in the freezer and if I plan on a fish fry. As to what Matt said, just invite Matt on your boat and you'll find the fish...... ; - )


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## Ken.Huynh (May 30, 2014)

But let me ask you. How many do actually come home with their limit every trip? I think most doesnâ€™t. For most of half the year the fishing is super hard and most stay home anyway. 

And I think most only able to fish few time a year. I think if everyone play by the rule and keep what theyâ€™re allowed. There should always be fish for our grand kids to catch. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Gofish2day (May 9, 2006)

I would support limits in some lakes. For instance, Conroe has a poor river system above at stubble field. Drought years really play havoc on the WB populations. This past year they were really coming back. It would have been great to leave them alone or reduce the limits to maybe 15 fish in this one lake. What WB they had, really got hammered hard this past year. Yes, a lot were cleaned out in Jan while headed to spawn.
WB do have egg sacks the size of coke cans. They can reproduce but with a small river system on the north end they do decline.


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## Mattsfishin (Aug 23, 2009)

TPWD has experimented with the length of whites on Conroe. Years back Conroe was an awesome place for whites but no one can tell me why they went away. Some say disease, some say drought, and some say too many people catching them. They went away all of a sudden. Livingston is different and has a heck of a shad population.
Now as far as Conroe goes I hammered the heck out of whites this year starting back the first of december. When the big females showed up I released most of them but limit after limit was caught this year.


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## Momma's Worry (Aug 3, 2009)

whsalum said:


> It's a slow time of year for topics so this should be a good one to draw opinions. With the advancements in technology in the fishing industry, especially in electronics and trolling motors, should Texas Parks and Wildlife revisit possession limits on freshwater lakes? Curious what ya'll think?


Yes ,on Black Bass, as in up the bag to ten for those of us who like to eat them ...no scientific data what so ever
to have a stingy 5 fish bag limit....they are in every pond of water to be found


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## whsalum (Mar 4, 2013)

Growing up I never paid much attention to Black Bass creel limits but a stern encounter with a TPW official changed all that . I personally think the changes on LMB were strictly driven by $$. The amount of tournaments made the reduction a must. To the Bass tournament guys credit they established catch and release guidelines and established great measures to keep their fish alive. I think we unfairly accuse our young fisherman of potlicking the guides , that practice isn't age driven. The white bass and catfish populations on Livingston are in great shape in my opinion and will be as long as the shad are abundant. I'm not sure the same can be said for the crappie and black bass. Looking back at notes from years past my catch rates on those have diminished on Livingston drastically. The simplicity of the new electronics is going to be a game changer.


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## Mattsfishin (Aug 23, 2009)

whsalum you are correct and I should apologize to the youngsters. I have seen people older than me potlicking. I guess what I meant before by saying youngster was someone younger than me. I am getting to the age where most people are younger than me except Sunbeam. I also blame the computer for a lot of our fishing issues. Used to people would get up and go fishing. Now they wait on someone to report when and where. I enjoy looking for fish and I guess thats why I enjoy the spawn so much. Looking for fish and following their movements up and down the creeks and rivers.

As mentioned before we don't need to worry about the whites now but the stripers could use a little help on Livingston.


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## Captn C (May 21, 2004)

Just to be clear on my first post in this thread. 

I'm not saying any changes need to be made. But coming from the coast, I'm used to the fish being regulated heavily.

But as I said, WB don't live very long, so their life cycle supports their population even at the present harvest rates.

So nothing needs to be changed in the areas of WB and Crappie.


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## Gofish2day (May 9, 2006)

Captn C
You mentioned regulation on the coast. You should see the regulation in Alaska.
it is insane with areas opening - closing. Limits changing - Limits increasing.
We don't want nothing like that here.

I would also like to mention Crappie. Its a strange fish. There will be few fish this year, then next an explosion. The cycle continues. I have read that too many adult crappie and they eat the fry.This and the environment contribute to the feast - famine cycle.
Not an expert but something I read.


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## shadslinger (Aug 21, 2005)

Does anyone here remember when the length limit on white bass was increased to 12â€ experimentally on Livingston?
It was a near disaster, after a short time the lake was full of 8â€ white bass. It was changed back to 10â€ quickly.


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## Ken.Huynh (May 30, 2014)

shadslinger said:


> Does anyone here remember when the length limit on white bass was increased to 12â€ experimentally on Livingston?
> It was a near disaster, after a short time the lake was full of 8â€ white bass. It was changed back to 10â€ quickly.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Why is that? That donâ€™t make sense to me.

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## wwind3 (Sep 30, 2009)

I'm catching fewer crappie off my dock than I did back when I moved here in 2010. A few people fishing my boathouse over the years have told me about the success they had crappie fishing around it. 


And the bass tournament fishermen seem to not do as well.....The first year the Cabela's Texas team tournament was held here. I sat on my deck and watched 2 guys stick and lose 4 bass in about 10 minutes--probably 15 pounds of fish-cost them the tournament.


Which I remind the bassin' men of every year. One year a guy said "I wish you would stop talking about this every year. I was one of the guys in that boat that day." I said-nope--I'll never stop telling that one :smile:


I don't chase the whites, stripers, or hybrids but what do you guys think about getting rid of the 18 inch minimum on stripers and hybrids? I understand that most of the released fish tend to die anyway after being released. btw I catch small 6-8 inch stripers off my dock every year---natural spawn? Pretty sure they aren't whites...â€¦..tooth pattern, etc.....


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## shadslinger (Aug 21, 2005)

Ken.Huynh said:


> Why is that? That donâ€™t make sense to me.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It was explained by tpwd that when length limits are imposed it always results in a large population of fish being regulated that are just under the regulation minimum length. With the fish that do get harvested being mostly the ones that just reached the minimum length.
The experiment on Livingston with white bass resulted in a stunted adult population because of the competition for shad by the increased biomass of more fish.
Thatâ€™s the best understanding I came away with, but my resources are limited.
White bass are not indigenous to the rivers in Texas west of the Sabine.
Sometime in the 40s they were introduced west of the Sabine with fantastic results.
Must take about a dozen of them to populate a river system in a few years. When I first fished for them there was no limit, either size or bag.
Most fishermen didnâ€™t fish for them specifically then, they were the fish you went for when largemouth were not biting.
Spawning time was the exception to that, everybody liked to catch em in the creeks.

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## fishin_envy (Aug 13, 2010)

shadslinger said:


> Does anyone here remember when the length limit on white bass was increased to 12â€ experimentally on Livingston?
> It was a near disaster, after a short time the lake was full of 8â€ white bass. It was changed back to 10â€ quickly.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


I remember it very well. They set it on Livingston and 4 other lakes. I actually thought it was a good thing. 1st year the lake was full of 11" fish. After that I thought the large fish were plentiful. Maybe not limits every time, but average size seem to go up for me. Where before the 12" minimum, a 16" white was rare. 2 years after the 12" minimum, a 16" white was not unusual. They kept the 12" minimum for 4 years if I remember right. I thought they did away with it because they got tired of writing tickets to people with coolers full of 11" fish.

I also remember the days when there were no size or numbers limits on whites and a 12" fish in the lake was considered big. On the other hand fish were plentiful.


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## shadslinger (Aug 21, 2005)

It's easy to look up so I did and here is the link to check out.
The actual reason for the experimental 12" length limit failure was lack of sufficient angler harvest. It seems the catch rate fell below the one set for the endeavor to work as intended, so go figure, lol!
The article summary seems to indicate that river/stream fluctuations of flow during the spawn(higher flow=good spawn) affect the population of white bass more than anything else.
It's a good read.

https://tpwd.texas.gov/publications/pwdpubs/pwd_br_t3200_0022e/biology.phtml


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## whsalum (Mar 4, 2013)

Everything I've read on the spawn indicates water flow is the biggest factor in a successful spawn . I also watched some informative videos last night that seemed to think there were 2 different spawns. One in late fall and another in late winter. I always thought it was one drawn out over several months but I'm far from an expert.lol


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## whsalum (Mar 4, 2013)

Very good read Loy !!!!


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## Mattsfishin (Aug 23, 2009)

Not sure if there are 2 spawns but I have caught whites in november on the trinity above Livingston. Always thought they were staging waiting on river flow and temp to head on up but maybe there could be 2 spawns. Never caught any big females with eggs in november. Seem most were males. It does seem to me that there is usually one big push up river and then next month the others head up river except the ones that stay in the lake. This year the month of december was really good. I usually start on new years day chasing them in the creeks but the weather seemed right along with the river flow. Just my 2 cents.


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## shadslinger (Aug 21, 2005)

Matt, I have considered that there might be two distinct spawns as well. Based on what you are saying about November and December fishing for them up the creeks, and the size of baby white bass I catch during the year.
White bass grow a little less than an inch a month, up to an inch a month their first year. So it's possible to back date small fish based on it's size (about an inch a month) and have a fair idea of when they were born.
Over the years I consistently run across small white bass that are 7 to 8" long two times a year.
Once in late May to early June and later in October when there are metric tons of them on most white bass structures, lol!
Those October fish were born in March, those who show up in late May to early June were born in December.
Since I keep The Mighty Red-Fin in a boat stall on the south end I rarely make runs up the spawning creeks in November or December, but I used to fish White rock Creek a lot in those months and do well catching white bass.
It seemed they would run up and down the creek long distances in those months as the creeks rose and fell. You could find them up near Tantabeaux creek or further one day and around white rock city marina the next if the creek dropped.


Whalsum, I thought it was the best read on white bass I have come across in a long time.


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## Captn C (May 21, 2004)

wwind3 said:


> I don't chase the whites, stripers, or hybrids but what do you guys think about getting rid of the 18 inch minimum on stripers and hybrids? I understand that most of the released fish tend to die anyway after being released. btw I catch small 6-8 inch stripers off my dock every year---natural spawn? Pretty sure they aren't whites...&#8230;..tooth pattern, etc.....


I've heard that about Lake Livingston, they see floaters...but on Somerville I've never seen a floating Hybrid. 99% of the floaters I see are buffalo.

All of the Hybrids I have released took off with a lot of enthusiasm so I feel none expired after I released them.

But...it looks like the majority of guys catching Hybrids keep the regardless the length. I've seen a bunch of 17"ers go on stringers in the last month!


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## 100 AMP (May 9, 2008)

*TPW*

Don't be giving TPW guys any ideas. Someone up there might not have anything to do and say lets ==== with the fishermen and change some rules and **** them off. Just a thought.


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## Momma's Worry (Aug 3, 2009)

100 AMP said:


> Don't be giving TPW guys any ideas. Someone up there might not have anything to do and say lets ==== with the fishermen and change some rules and **** them off. Just a thought.


since TP&W has been politicized ....
don't worry .....these fish bag limit reduction issues will never go away till these non-fish eating types get their way and the bag limit is next to or at zero...


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## whsalum (Mar 4, 2013)

Don't confuse the question with non fish eating types lol. I probably keep more than my fair share. My question was based more on the advancement of trolling motors and electronics.


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## Momma's Worry (Aug 3, 2009)

With the advancements in technology in the fishing industry, especially in electronics and trolling motors, should Texas Parks and Wildlife revisit possession limits on freshwater lakes? 



NO


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## whsalum (Mar 4, 2013)

good answer


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