# Xmas Bay--Oyster boats



## jewfish (Feb 16, 2005)

Anyone seen whats going on with the Oyster harvesting in Christmas Bay the last few days?
I have seen several oyster boats in ICW and was told the harvest was opened last Thursday or Friday. 
Friends bought a sack off a boat and they were as good and salty as any Texas oyster I have ever eaten.

Wont take em long to clear them out I guess


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## BullyARed (Jun 19, 2010)

Where can you buy from oyster boat? Thanks.


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## lindyb (Dec 11, 2013)

Saw several of them going down the ICW past my place last weekend going north, toward Christmas Bay.

What does it cost to buy a bag off the boat these days?


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

TPWD has closed almost every bay on the coast due to over harvest which has flooded Christmas Bay with refugees from up and down the coast. 

The good news is Christmas is too shallow even on a high tide to dredge so every oyster harvested has to be done so by hand or "cooned"

The bad news is many of the boats are owned by the oyster houses which have employed dozens of illegal aliens to harvest the oysters. These "employees" or "deckhands" do not own commercial oyster licenses, have no vested long term interest in the health of the reef and have absolutely zero respect for our resource. The bay and boat ramps are now littered with trash, burlap bags and make shift plywood barges.

As a commercial oyster fisherman who has harvested Christmas Bay off and on for decades I am embarrassed. Even though it is done by hand which is much better for the reefs I fully expect TPWD to close the bay due to over harvest any day now.

As for the cost? I have been selling full old school 100-110 pound "boat sacks" for 50.00. Most of the other boats are selling 90-100 pound sacks for 40.00. Shoot me a PM and I will get you the hook up.


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## jewfish (Feb 16, 2005)

I have been told there are numerous outboard style oysterboats int eh bay as we s[eak
40.00 for the sack as was stated above


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## CaptJack (Jun 13, 2004)

and Bastrop Bay has the majority of the oysters


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

CaptJack said:


> and Bastrop Bay has the majority of the oysters


Bastrop bay is closed to oyster harvest


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## CaptJack (Jun 13, 2004)

Its Catchy said:


> Bastrop bay is closed to oyster harvest


*that's a GOOD thing*


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## Lexy1 (Jul 12, 2012)

My friend bought $40/100lb bag


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## jjtroutkiller (Jan 28, 2005)

They were working over East Matagorda last week.


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## Im Headed South (Jun 28, 2006)

Its Catchy said:


> TPWD has closed almost every bay on the coast due to over harvest which has flooded Christmas Bay with refugees from up and down the coast.
> 
> The good news is Christmas is too shallow even on a high tide to dredge so every oyster harvested has to be done so by hand or "cooned"
> 
> ...


Truth, I believe there is only 4 or 5 bays left open in the state, the last of the bays down south out of Rockport just closed this last week.

Check out the press release below, what it doesn't mention that I know to be true is they also hauled off about 2 dozen illegals and busted a few boats unloading sacks on private piers in SAB during the day then going out and getting another limit to take to the dock. Hoping they can tie this back to a certain oyster buyer who's hell bent on running the oyster fishery into the ground and only getting what they can as fast as they can, they'll probably move on to somewhere else after this happens as they aren't from Texas anyway.

http://www.texasalloutdoors.com/Out...d-successful-joint-operation-bahia-de-aransas


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

Im Headed South said:


> Truth, I believe there is only 4 or 5 bays left open in the state, the last of the bays down south out of Rockport just closed this last week.
> 
> Check out the press release below, what it doesn't mention that I know to be true is they also hauled off about 2 dozen illegals and busted a few boats unloading sacks on private piers in SAB during the day then going out and getting another limit to take to the dock. Hoping they can tie this back to a certain oyster buyer who's hell bent on running the oyster fishery into the ground and only getting what they can as fast as they can, they'll probably move on to somewhere else after this happens as they aren't from Texas anyway.
> 
> http://www.texasalloutdoors.com/Out...d-successful-joint-operation-bahia-de-aransas


The quickest way to correct any over harvest in the oyster industry is to simply enforce our immigration laws. Out there on the bay almost every day working amongst them I would estimate 75% of them are not here legally.

I won't mince words here. A few commercial oyster boat license holders are exploiting cheap illegal labor to line their pockets.


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## Stuart (May 21, 2004)

Most of the oysters in Christmas Bay are in water deep enough to easily operate most dredgers in.


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## Profish00 (May 21, 2004)

west bay was full of them Saturday.


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## Stuart (May 21, 2004)

And nearby Bastrop Bay is small but full of oysters as well.


It sucks, but a lot people love to eat them, so they have to come from somewhere.


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## Finn Maccumhail (Feb 16, 2009)

And those oyster boats are leaving all kinds of trash all over Christmas Bay. These are from FB:


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

Stuart said:


> Most of the oysters in Christmas Bay are in water deep enough to easily operate most dredgers in.


Sorry but you are wrong about that. Christmas Bay is dredge proof, Where the oysters are its just too shallow. Every morning there are a few boats that try to dredge only to get stuck and spend the next 30 mins trying to get their boats off the reef.

There are about 20-25 boats, equipped with dredges parked on the reef every morning and the crew is out of the boat cooning. They would not be "cooning" if they had enough water to dredge in.


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## Drundel (Feb 6, 2006)

Its Catchy said:


> The bad news is many of the boats are owned by the oyster houses which have employed dozens of illegal aliens to harvest the oysters. These "employees" or "deckhands" do not own commercial oyster licenses, have no vested long term interest in the health of the reef and have absolutely zero respect for our resource. The bay and boat ramps are now littered with trash, burlap bags and make shift plywood barges.


Seems like a good time to get ICE out there.


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## Kyle 1974 (May 10, 2006)

I don't understand the fascination with eating oysters. Put a bunch of sauce to mask the flavor, and swallow whole so you can't taste them.


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## SeaOx 230C (Aug 12, 2005)

Kyle 1974 said:


> I don't understand the fascination with eating oysters. Put a bunch of sauce to mask the flavor, and swallow whole so you can't taste them.


Some of us oyster eaters don't' put ketchup type sauces on our food and we actually chew our food. Heck I don't even put ketchup on French fries.


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## Stuart (May 21, 2004)

Its Catchy said:


> Sorry but you are wrong about that. Christmas Bay is dredge proof, Where the oysters are its just too shallow. Every morning there are a few boats that try to dredge only to get stuck and spend the next 30 mins trying to get their boats off the reef.
> 
> There are about 20-25 boats, equipped with dredges parked on the reef every morning and the crew is out of the boat cooning. They would not be "cooning" if they had enough water to dredge in.


I know that area very well. There are oysters all along the old ICW path for example.

If it were dredge proof why are they there and have been there for some time.


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## dbarham (Aug 13, 2005)

Kyle 1974 said:


> I don't understand the fascination with eating oysters. Put a bunch of sauce to mask the flavor, and swallow whole so you can't taste them.


Put em in a gumbo or crawfish boil and you won't have to mask it with anything but a cold beer


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## Bullitt4439 (Sep 18, 2014)

Yup posted a couple of weeks ago about it. Surprised no one has been shot over em blocking the launch yet...

http://2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/showthread.php?t=2203129


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

Stuart said:


> I know that area very well. There are oysters all along the old ICW path for example.
> 
> If it were dredge proof why are they there and have been there for some time.


To dredge oysters the boat has to get on top of the reef and do a circle with the dredge. Which means your boat has to have propulsion on the reef. Arcadia reef and the reefs that line both sides of the Old Intracoastal going from Christmas Bay into Drum Bay may be 6" deep on a normal high tide. On a low tide as you know well they are completely high and dry. On an extremely high tide they may be 18" deep.

All the boats are parked on the reef and everybody is out there with baskets or buckets "cooning" oysters which is slang for picking them up by hand. There are plenty of oysters lining both sides but you can't get a dredge on them, you have to either tong them or **** them. The problem the "Armada" has had the last week is the tides have been too high to "****" but not high enough to dredge. So there has been a decrease in the mob at Christmas and an increase next door in West Galveston bay.

I hand tong my oysters. Which means I don't need propulsion but I do need to float on the reef to move around. About 50% of the time I have to get out of the boat and **** oysters as well because the tide is too low for the boat to float on the reef. So as I said the good news is Christmas Bay is going to be extremely resistant to overfishing. But everything has it's limits. It can't hold up to unlimited pressure.

Trust me on this one. 355 days a year Christmas Bay reefs are dredge proof.


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## Stuart (May 21, 2004)

Its Catchy said:


> To dredge oysters the boat has to get on top of the reef and do a circle with the dredge. Which means your boat has to have propulsion on the reef. Arcadia reef and the reefs that line both sides of the Old Intracoastal going from Christmas Bay into Drum Bay may be 6" deep on a normal high tide. On a low tide as you know well they are completely high and dry. On an extremely high tide they may be 18" deep.
> 
> All the boats are parked on the reef and everybody is out there with baskets or buckets "cooning" oysters which is slang for picking them up by hand. There are plenty of oysters lining both sides but you can't get a dredge on them, you have to either tong them or **** them. The problem the "Armada" has had the last week is the tides have been too high to "****" but not high enough to dredge. So there has been a decrease in the mob at Christmas and an increase next door in West Galveston bay.
> 
> ...


Gotcha. And I'm referring to the old ICW in the bay proper. It is 4 ish feet deep there and has oysters along with other spots in the bay where an oyster boats can operate.


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## Bull Red (Mar 17, 2010)

Kyle 1974 said:


> I don't understand the fascination with eating oysters. Put a bunch of sauce to mask the flavor, and swallow whole so you can't taste them.


You gotta chew 'em up to get the flavor. Swallowing whole would be a complete waste to me.


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## Zeitgeist (Nov 10, 2011)

Bull Red said:


> You gotta chew 'em up to get the flavor. Swallowing whole would be a complete waste to me.


Right on...and nobody puts cocktail sauce on shrimp :headknock


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## Zeitgeist (Nov 10, 2011)

dbarham said:


> Put em in a gumbo or crawfish boil and you won't have to mask it with anything but a cold beer


Re-spiced yesterday! Brook had the blackening also!


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

My neighbor chargrills the best oyster I have ever had. We have a running deal, I supply them and he grills them.

Our neighbors love us!


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## D HOGG (Jul 2, 2012)

Its Catchy said:


> TPWD has closed almost every bay on the coast due to over harvest which has flooded Christmas Bay with refugees from up and down the coast.
> 
> The good news is Christmas is too shallow even on a high tide to dredge so every oyster harvested has to be done so by hand or "cooned"
> 
> ...


Its Catchy has hooked me and my friends up with some of the best if not the best oysters I have eaten from the Gulf Coast !! Hit him up before its to late ...

Looks like the honey hole has been compromised ...


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## BullyARed (Jun 19, 2010)

Quote:
Originally Posted by *Kyle 1974*  
_I don't understand the fascination with eating oysters. Put a bunch of sauce to mask the flavor, and swallow whole so you can't taste them._



SeaOx 230C said:


> Some of us oyster eaters don't' put ketchup type sauces on our food and we actually chew our food. Heck I don't even put ketchup on French fries.


I like them raw and fresh with beers!


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## Zeitgeist (Nov 10, 2011)

Its Catchy said:


> My neighbor chargrills the best oyster I have ever had. We have a running deal, I supply them and he grills them.
> 
> Our neighbors love us!


I make'em mean dawg! Have a recipe down in the recipe section!


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## 98aggie77566 (Jul 7, 2009)

Catchy - where are you selling out of?

Grilling a mess sure sounds good for the weekend!


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

98aggie77566 said:


> Catchy - where are you selling out of?
> 
> Grilling a mess sure sounds good for the weekend!


Shoot me a PM. I will give you the hook up.


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## Profish00 (May 21, 2004)

Causway boat ramp was stacked with boats this afternoon


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## dbarham (Aug 13, 2005)

Zeitgeist said:


> Re-spiced yesterday! Brook had the blackening also!


I been in there too he is about to open the doors!


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## coachlaw (Oct 26, 2005)

Who the heck eats oysters without chewing them? That's where all the flavor is. It's Catchy's oysters are the saltiest I've had since moving here from Louisiana. It's true what he says about cooning and tonging. They're MUCH easier on the reefs. If we want truly sustainable oysters, that's the way to do it. Oyster fisheries can be very sustainable with care to return shells to reefs and create new ones by dropping old shell (culch). 

As far as the trash they leave around, that's not acceptable. You can bet the people doing that ain't from around here.


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## 98aggie77566 (Jul 7, 2009)

Zeitgeist said:


> I make'em mean dawg! Have a recipe down in the recipe section!


Didn't find your recipe...likely operator error.

Post a link here if your don't mind?

Any other tips are appreciated....picking up a sack from Catchy and trying for the first time...with friends coming over as guinea pigs LOL!

Thanks again Catchy for the hookup!!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Zeitgeist (Nov 10, 2011)

98aggie77566 said:


> Didn't find your recipe...likely operator error.
> 
> Post a link here if your don't mind?
> 
> ...


Here you go! I messaged Catchy also.

Yo Catchy, I guess the prime time is the next couple of weeks correct?

http://2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/showthread.php?t=1481154


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## TxBrewer (Jul 23, 2011)

I have never tried oysters but may want to try that recipe out if I can find some decent ones in North Dallas.


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

This is about the peak of the season. If it stays this warm they will start getting "milky" pretty quick.


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## 98aggie77566 (Jul 7, 2009)

Thanks again Catchy!

Picked up a sack today....great guy and some big oysters!

PS - a sack of a lot of oysters.

Can't wait to eat some raw and grill/fry a mess tomorrow!


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## Zeitgeist (Nov 10, 2011)

Its Catchy said:


> This is about the peak of the season. If it stays this warm they will start getting "milky" pretty quick.


Good info, well be getting with you probably in the next 7 days!


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## 3192 (Dec 30, 2004)

Region 8 Oyster Season Violations February 2017 passed out by Assistant Commander, Brandi Reeder TPWD Fisheries Law Enforcement, to oyster industry members at an emergency Oyster Advisory Workgroup Meeting March 8, 2017. The reason law enforcement shared this information was to show the industry how blatant the violations are becoming, most are more than double the legal limit and some up to 95% undersized.
It is unlawful for any person to take or possess a cargo of oysters more than 15% of which are between 3/4 inch and three inches measured from beak to bill or along an imaginary line through the long axis of the shell. For the purposes of this paragraph, any dead oyster shell measuring greater than 3/4 inch along any axis shall be counted as an undersized oyster. Penalty is a class C parks and wildlife misdemeanor $25.00 to $500.00 fine, Captain only.
The department must check 5% of the total cargo, which equals 1 sack for every 20 sacks on board vessel.
If vessel has 21 to 40 sacks on board, the warden must check 2 sacks. Daily limit is 40 sacks.
TPWD policy is to NOT issue a citation when undersized cargo is 20% or less because it shows the fisherman is trying to comply with the law even though the legal limit is 15%. Kind of like receiving a warning for 60 in a 55 MPH zone.
A typical 100 to 110 pound sack of barely legal 3 inch cookie cutter uniform oysters counts between 275 and 300 per sack depending on shell thickness and shape.
Many of the sacks on this list average between 65 and 90 Pounds including dead shell reef pieces that are also counted as undersized.
If passed this session House Billâ€"51 (which failed 2015 session) will create (1) a voluntary oyster license buyback program to reduce harvest pressure (2) an oyster vessel monitoring program to reduce law enforcement and fisheries management cost, protect public health and public oyster resources, and (3) the each person on board responsible for undersize oyster violations drastically reducing the incentive to harvest juvenile oysters. 
*Call, write, or email your state representative and senator to tell them you support HB-51 in its current clean form, tell them you do not want any amendments to the bill that will make it controversial. 
As recreational fishermen we all know how valuable healthy productive oyster reefs are and we have all witnessed the destructive harvest practices some big oyster dealers are inflicting on Texas reefs. 
Passage of HBâ€"51 and reducing the commercial daily limit from 40 to 25 sacks per day will protect and allow the resource to rebound, benefiting all Texans.*


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## 98aggie77566 (Jul 7, 2009)

Big!!









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

galvbay said:


> Region 8 Oyster Season Violations February 2017 passed out by Assistant Commander, Brandi Reeder TPWD Fisheries Law Enforcement, to oyster industry members at an emergency Oyster Advisory Workgroup Meeting March 8, 2017. The reason law enforcement shared this information was to show the industry how blatant the violations are becoming, most are more than double the legal limit and some up to 95% undersized.
> It is unlawful for any person to take or possess a cargo of oysters more than 15% of which are between 3/4 inch and three inches measured from beak to bill or along an imaginary line through the long axis of the shell. For the purposes of this paragraph, any dead oyster shell measuring greater than 3/4 inch along any axis shall be counted as an undersized oyster. Penalty is a class C parks and wildlife misdemeanor $25.00 to $500.00 fine, Captain only.
> The department must check 5% of the total cargo, which equals 1 sack for every 20 sacks on board vessel.
> If vessel has 21 to 40 sacks on board, the warden must check 2 sacks. Daily limit is 40 sacks.
> ...


I am all for a voluntary oyster buyback program. It's worked wonders for the Shrimp, fish and crab fisheries in Texas but cutting the limit from 40 to 25 is too extreme. A few years back we cut it from 90 to 50 and this year it went down to 40.

Keep in mind TPWD has regulatory authority to close entire bays and currently 22 of 35 areas have been closed by TPWD due to over harvest. We do not need more laws we just need enforcement of the ones already on the books.

Please call, write or email your state representative and tell them you do not support HB-51 in its current form because of the hardship it will impose on the Texas oyster fishery.


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

What will HB-51 do if passed? Lower the sack limit from 40 to 25. Sounds good on the surface. But as with all things the government does there will be "unintended consequences". The cost will be passed on to the consumer and the price of oysters will most likely double. As a commercial oyster fisherman I love the idea of making more cash catching fewer oysters. The problem is so does every other commercial oyster fisherman.

So the exact opposite thing will happen. Fishing pressure will increase. Oyster fishermen will make more money catching fewer oysters and the industry will get more efficient. Slower bigger boats with a deep draft will give way to smaller, trailerable, fast, shallow draft outboards that can oyster in twenty feet of water or six inches. Boats that are currently sitting tied up to the dock will have all the incentive they need to get out there. 

In 2004 the limit on oysters was 90 sacks per boat. The price was 18.00 a sack. 13 years later the limit is 40 sacks and the price has over doubled and the fishery is in much worse shape than it was thirteen years ago. The key to making the oyster industry more sustainable is through limited entry and a license buyback program. Not artificially driving the price of oysters up.

Christmas Bay is a perfect example of everything wrong with the way we have managed the resource. Over the last 30 years I have never seen more than one other commercial oyster boat in Christmas Bay. It was too shallow, dredge proof and not a cost effective bay to work for most oystermen. You increase the price through reductions in the limit and suddenly people will find a way to work Christmas Bay even by hand. 

First and foremost when they established limited entry for the oyster fishery there was no buyback program. No incentive for people to retire their license. Secondly when they lowered the limit from 90 to 40 the price doubled having the exact opposite effect as desired. It INCREASED fishing pressure. And last but not least when TPWD was given the authority to close bays that were over harvested they created packs of smaller boats that travel like a swarm of locusts to next bay down the coast that is open.

Copy and paste this post to a word document and we will revisit this in 10 years. If HB-51 passes in it's current form you will get: 1.) Higher priced oysters. 2.) Create more fishing pressure on the resource. 3.) incentivize oyster fishermen to break the law. Smaller half shell size oysters will bare the brunt of the new regulations.

You want to fix the industry create a .50 a sack fee earmarked to retiring licenses. Incentivize license holders to voluntarily retire their licenses and you will get a healthier, cleaner sustainable fishery. It's worked great for the shrimp, crab and fin fish fisheries.


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## Im Headed South (Jun 28, 2006)

Its Catchy said:


> You want to fix the industry create a .50 a sack fee earmarked to retiring licenses. Incentivize license holders to voluntarily retire their licenses and you will get a healthier, cleaner sustainable fishery. It's worked great for the shrimp, crab and fin fish fisheries.


Seems like the above will also mean less oysters coming to dock which will equal higher prices just as you point out, demand is way outpacing supply so prices are going up regardless. We need to be worried about the fishery, as in the fishery in the water, oysters are to important to healthy bay systems and the ecosystem to be worried about the implications of the corporations that are making profits off our public resource. Look at the large bays systems in the northeast that became polluted wastelands after they wiped out the water cleaning oyster reefs. What good does having a higher sack limit when 80 or 90 % of the bay systems are shut down from over fishing?


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

Im Headed South said:


> Seems like the above will also mean less oysters coming to dock which will equal higher prices just as you point out, demand is way outpacing supply so prices are going up regardless. We need to be worried about the fishery, as in the fishery in the water, oysters are to important to healthy bay systems and the ecosystem to be worried about the implications of the corporations that are making profits off our public resource. Look at the large bays systems in the northeast that became polluted wastelands after they wiped out the water cleaning oyster reefs. What good does having a higher sack limit when 80 or 90 % of the bay systems are shut down from over fishing?


There is absolutely no shortage of oysters in our bay systems. Lets make that clear. 75% of our bays are permanently closed to the harvest of oysters. Sabine Lake has one of the biggest untouched oyster reefs remaining in the nation. Galveston Bay has thousands and thousands of acres of untouched reef.

However there is a very real shortage of oysters from legal waters. It's what happens when you force more and more oyster fishermen in less and less open water. The answer to the problem is the voluntary retirement of oyster licenses. You could even fund it with a sack tax. TPWD set the standard for the rest of the nation when it comes to establishing limited entry programs with voluntary retirement.

No need to re-invent the wheel lets go with a proven system of fleet reduction.


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## Im Headed South (Jun 28, 2006)

Its Catchy said:


> There is absolutely no shortage of oysters in our bay systems. Lets make that clear.


Folks that have watched the fleet grind the reefs to nonexistence in areas of the middle coast would disagree with you. When they are writing tickets anytime they want to get out there and put in the work to go through the sacks because they have up to 90% of undersized oyster in them would suggest there is a issue with finding mature oysters.


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

Im Headed South said:


> Folks that have watched the fleet grind the reefs to nonexistence in areas of the middle coast would disagree with you. When they are writing tickets anytime they want to get out there and put in the work to go through the sacks because they have up to 90% of undersized oyster in them would suggest there is a issue with finding mature oysters.


What do you think increasing the price is going to do to those reefs that have been overworked?

To put it simply the more the price goes up the harder people will work to get them. Lowering the sack limit will increase the price which will lead to an increase in fishing pressure. The most effective way to decrease fishing pressure is to get more and more dredges out of the water. Limited entry programs have greatly reduced the number of shrimp nets and crab traps in the water. It will do the same for dredges. You just have to fund it.


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## Im Headed South (Jun 28, 2006)

I'm not against the buy back program, been wanting it for years but apparently TPWD and the Oyster work group both believe buying back permits some of which aren't being fished anyway isn't enough to help the fishery.


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

Im Headed South said:


> I'm not against the buy back program, been wanting it for years but apparently TPWD and the Oyster work group both believe buying back permits some of which aren't being fished anyway isn't enough to help the fishery.


You bring up a great point. Many of the permits are not being used. Probably close to 1/2 of them. They are not being used because it's hard to make money with them. What do you think will happen to those permits when the price of oysters jumps from 40 dollars a sack to 60.00?

Thats correct, they will be used and you will have more boats grinding on the reef.

I have first hand knowledge of exactly what happens when the price of oysters is artificially increased due to ineffective regulatory changes. We tried this twice in the last decade or so. First from 90 down to 50 and then this year from 50 down to 40. It drives up the price bringing more boats on the bay.

Exactly the opposite effect of what you want. Throw HB-51 in the trash, fund a buyback program and make lasting, real positive changes to the industry.


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## 3192 (Dec 30, 2004)

House Bill 51 does not lower the sack limit.
The Texas Parks and wildlife commission sets the daily sack limit by proclamation.

HB 51 Will authorize TPWD to create;
(1) voluntary oyster license buyback program.
(2) oyster vessel monitoring system.
(3) make everyone on board responsible for undersize oyster violations.

Google TLO, Texas Legislature Online type in HB 51 and read for yourself.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Im Headed South (Jun 28, 2006)

Its Catchy said:


> You bring up a great point. Many of the permits are not being used. Probably close to 1/2 of them. They are not being used because it's hard to make money with them. What do you think will happen to those permits when the price of oysters jumps from 40 dollars a sack to 60.00?
> 
> Thats correct, they will be used and you will have more boats grinding on the reef.
> 
> ...


The reason so many licenses are out there being unused is because when word got out that there might be a buy back program everybody ran to Austin to buy a cheap permit in the hopes they'll be able to sell it back at a profit, same thing happened when the shrimping buy back program started. Hopefully the politicians learned something from that fiasco and worded the details of the program differently but I wouldn't bet much on it.


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

Im Headed South said:


> The reason so many licenses are out there being unused is because when word got out that there might be a buy back program everybody ran to Austin to buy a cheap permit in the hopes they'll be able to sell it back at a profit, same thing happened when the shrimping buy back program started. Hopefully the politicians learned something from that fiasco and worded the details of the program differently but I wouldn't bet much on it.


The oyster fishery has been limited for 12 years since 2005. The going rate to purchase one is between 3500 - 4000 dollars. It costs 441.00 a year to renew and you cannot let it lapse.

Not much of a profit now is there? Spending 5200.00 for a license you may be able to get 4,000 dollars for 12 years later?

But it is a moot point. If the limit is lowered, the price will undoubtably go up. Prices will increase and many license owners will be incentivized monetarily to put that asset to work. There will be more boats on the water and the resource will bare the additional strain.

We tried lowering the limit twice in the last twelve years. All it has done is forced the boat price upward and increased the fishing pressure. Been there and done that. Lets leave the limits alone, fund a buyback and start getting dredges out of the water.

Hindsight is 20/20 but if we established a buyback 12 years ago we would have retired dozens if not hundreds of licenses and the industry would not be in the shape it is now.


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## MEGABITE (May 21, 2004)

Just emailed my reps and told them to vote against HB 51, thanks, Its Catchy


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## Snookered (Jun 16, 2009)

Its Catchy said:


> The oyster fishery has been limited for 12 years since 2005. The going rate to purchase one is between 3500 - 4000 dollars. It costs 441.00 a year to renew and you cannot let it lapse.
> 
> Not much of a profit now is there? Spending 5200.00 for a license you may be able to get 4,000 dollars for 12 years later?
> 
> ...


there's another way; oyster leases....leases are already being successfully used in Galveston Bay...businesses put cultch back in the water every year, rotate leases, and have a sustainable business model...I propose that you set some areas aside in each bay system and lease them to operators...this will stop the derby and change the whole game...

of course you'll need stiff penalties for poaching others leases...but then again, self policing may be even a better deterrent....
snookered


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## KEGLEG (Jan 15, 2012)

I flagged a oyster boat over to me and bought a sack for $40. Only finished about 2/3 of the sack. They were good and salty. 

I like the taste. Dont try to mask the taste. 
Best in a shot glass with tequila, horse radish, lime and tobasco. 


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## Im Headed South (Jun 28, 2006)

MEGABITE said:


> Just emailed my reps and told them to vote against HB 51, thanks, Its Catchy


http://www.legis.state.tx.us/tlodocs/85R/billtext/html/HB00051I.htm

Read the bill for yourself at that link, as pointed out above, HB51 doesn't reduce the bag limit, that is left to the TPWD Commission to do after recommendations from Coastal Fisheries, the Oyster Work Group, the CRAC, and the public. So a no vote to HB51 only kills the buy back program and more stringent enforcement and monitoring of the boats, those items are desperately needed as the first few pages of this thread points out.


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## Stuart (May 21, 2004)

If x number of bags are going to be dredged per year, what difference does it make if six boats are dredging an area or two? I'd rather have six undercutting each other's price.


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

MEGABITE said:


> Just emailed my reps and told them to vote against HB 51, thanks, Its Catchy


I don't support HB-51 in it's current state. Get rid of everything but the buyback funding and start "retiring" licenses. The rest is pretty much regulatory garbage.

Keep it simple and start enforcing laws that are already on the books and have been for years.


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

Stuart said:


> If x number of bags are going to be dredged per year, what difference does it make if six boats are dredging an area or two? I'd rather have six undercutting each other's price.


There are hundreds of licenses out there that are not being used. If you lower the limit (again) the price of oysters will undoubtably go up. More and more boats that have not been working will have the financial incentive to start dredging.

The best time to retire licenses is when the price is low and there are fewer boats working.


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## Im Headed South (Jun 28, 2006)

Its Catchy said:


> I don't support HB-51 in it's current state. Get rid of everything but the buyback funding and start "retiring" licenses. The rest is pretty much regulatory garbage.
> 
> Keep it simple and start enforcing laws that are already on the books and have been for years.


So now it's the enforcement issues you have a problem with after being corrected about the bill containing no such limit reduction as you proclaimed before. A commercial having a issue with enforcement, shocking, folks taking your advice on HB51 is akin to Recs taking advise from Buddy on Red Snapper management.


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## WADEN (Oct 25, 2016)

finn maccumhail said:


> and those oyster boats are leaving all kinds of trash all over christmas bay. These are from fb:


that's awful !


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## JavelinaRuss (Jul 24, 2007)

Kyle 1974 said:


> I don't understand the fascination with eating oysters. Put a bunch of sauce to mask the flavor, and swallow whole so you can't taste them.





Its Catchy said:


> My neighbor chargrills the best oyster I have ever had. We have a running deal, I supply them and he grills them.
> 
> Our neighbors love us!


Best way I've ever ate them is over a open flame with a tin cup of garlic butter on the corner of the grill at hand. Grilled, fried and Louisiana hot sauce raw in that order of preference :brew:

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## LA Wader (Oct 22, 2013)

The oyster season over here in Calcasieu got shut down the other day (supposedly realization of over-harvesting has been noticed). I don't have a problem with oystering, but I have a problem with oyster dredging. The dredging destroys the reefs far more than the tongs ever could. 

From a fisherman's standpoint, the reefs that many of us once fished are no longer as productive for fish as they were before dredging was allowed a few years back. Areas where you would lose every jighead in the box are gone. You could drag a bait on the bottom now and not get hung up if you tried to. Every area in the lake that has allowed for dredging has had the same impact on the fishing, the fish don't hold in the certain areas they once did. Coincidence?


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

Im Headed South said:


> So now it's the enforcement issues you have a problem with after being corrected about the bill containing no such limit reduction as you proclaimed before. A commercial having a issue with enforcement, shocking, folks taking your advice on HB51 is akin to Recs taking advise from Buddy on Red Snapper management.


I have no issues with enforcement. I have issues with those who want to keep going down the same path that clearly is not working. Typical bureaucratic nonsense. Let's double down on regulations that have done nothing but backfire on us.

You don't get dredges out of the water by increasing the price. It can't get any simpler than that.


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## The Last Mango (Jan 31, 2010)

It would take me too long to respond to this thread correctly


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## Im Headed South (Jun 28, 2006)

Thought this deserved a bump after the hearing yesterday, skip ahead to the 1:25 mark to hear about HB51. Listen for yourself and see where the industry is currently and the players involved in what is the single most important resource in our coastal ecosystem. We should all be worried with the status quo.

http://tlchouse.granicus.com/MediaPlayer.php?view_id=40&clip_id=13239


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

Im Headed South said:


> Thought this deserved a bump after the hearing yesterday, skip ahead to the 1:25 mark to hear about HB51. Listen for yourself and see where the industry is currently and the players involved in what is the single most important resource in our coastal ecosystem. We should all be worried with the status quo.
> 
> http://tlchouse.granicus.com/MediaPlayer.php?view_id=40&clip_id=13239


A couple of things I would like to point out. Like most bills there is some good and some bad things attached. Establishing funding to buyback licenses is a good thing. Most everybody in the industry supports it. Vessel monitoring systems/sack reductions just about anything else that will cost drive up the price of oysters artificially is a bad thing.

The Horde of locusts that invaded Christmas Bay are now all but gone. There are still plenty of oysters but it has become un-economical to "****" oysters (pick them by hand). The tide is higher but not high enough for dredges.

You drive up the price 20.00 more dollars a sack and the horde of locusts would still be working that bay.


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## Im Headed South (Jun 28, 2006)

Its Catchy said:


> A couple of things I would like to point out. Like most bills there is some good and some bad things attached. Establishing funding to buyback licenses is a good thing. Most everybody in the industry supports it. Vessel monitoring systems/sack reductions just about anything else that will cost drive up the price of oysters artificially is a bad thing.
> 
> The Horde of locusts that invaded Christmas Bay are now all but gone. There are still plenty of oysters but it has become un-economical to "****" oysters (pick them by hand). The tide is higher but not high enough for dredges.
> 
> You drive up the price 20.00 more dollars a sack and the horde of locusts would still be working that bay.


When did they leave, these were taking just a few days ago. Wonder if they plan to restore the marsh they've been running the four wheelers over going back and forth. Care to guess who's big white truck was parked there paying $40 a bag for them? Of course this is the last resort since they've already dredged all they could with boats. By the way there is nothing in the bill about sack reduction, you can say that all you want but it isn't going to make it true. Vessel monitoring is needed to keep boats honest, industry supports it, listen to the testimony, I guess the one company supports it, they said they did even if their paid hatchet man said the opposite in a recent article, "We don't know anything about that" lol, sure they don't.


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## Trouthappy (Jun 12, 2008)

I'd be happy if oyster harvest was prohibited for five years. It would help fishing and clean up water quality a great deal.


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

Im Headed South said:


> When did they leave, these were taking just a few days ago. Wonder if they plan to restore the marsh they've been running the four wheelers over going back and forth. Care to guess who's big white truck was parked there paying $40 a bag for them? Of course this is the last resort since they've already dredged all they could with boats. By the way there is nothing in the bill about sack reduction, you can say that all you want but it isn't going to make it true. Vessel monitoring is needed to keep boats honest, industry supports it, listen to the testimony, I guess the one company supports it, they said they did even if their paid hatchet man said the opposite in a recent article, "We don't know anything about that" lol, sure they don't.


They left with the high tides that started about a week ago. And despite multiple efforts there have been very few if any oyster boats "dredging" Christmas Bay.

I would not be using tongs if I could get my dredge on them. Do you think those guys would be cooning oysters and hauling them in a wheel barrel/makeshift barge if they could dredge them?

Vessel "monitoring" will not deter any criminal or keep anyone "honest". But it will drive up the price. The last thing the industry needs. Case in point there are already all the laws we need in place to "right" the industry.

There are laws against illegal immigration.
Laws against destroying marsh.
Laws against harvesting small oysters.
Laws against oystering in closed waters.
Limited entry.
Oystering at night. and so on and so on and so on.

We don't need more laws. We need effective and enforceable ones.


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

Trouthappy said:


> I'd be happy if oyster harvest was prohibited for five years. It would help fishing and clean up water quality a great deal.


I would expect nothing the less from you yearning for thousands of people to be "prohibited" from working and an industry thats been around since before the pilgrims landed on our shores destroyed.

But a flaming liberal like you was probably bummed out about President Trump's support of the Keystone Pipeline and Global Warming initiatives recently in acted.

I suggest you "boycott" all oysters.


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## The Last Mango (Jan 31, 2010)

Its Catchy said:


> I would expect nothing the less from you yearning for thousands of people to be "prohibited" from working and an industry thats been around since before the pilgrims landed on our shores destroyed.
> 
> But a flaming liberal like you was probably bummed out about President Trump's support of the Keystone Pipeline and Global Warming initiatives recently in acted.
> 
> I suggest you "boycott" all oysters.


This..........he's still in tears about Hillary


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## Im Headed South (Jun 28, 2006)

Guess you know better than all the industry leaders that were there in support of the bill, you should have went, you could have been the lone dissenter. They're cooning them because that's all that's left, they've raped everywhere they can get to with boats, not big boats that draft a lot but shallow draft ones like the one below who was also there the other day. Fyi I'm told that cooning operation isn't there anymore because TPWD shut it down due to multiple violations.


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## The Last Mango (Jan 31, 2010)

Im Headed South said:


> Guess you know better than all the industry leaders that were there in support of the bill, you should have went, you could have been the lone dissenter. They're cooning them because that's all that's left, they've raped everywhere they can get to with boats, not big boats that draft a lot but shallow draft ones like the one below who was also there the other day. Fyi I'm told that cooning operation isn't there anymore because TPWD shut it down due to multiple violations.


Who are you referring too?


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## Stuart (May 21, 2004)

There were plenty of boats tied up at Bastrop Marina weekend before last. The tide was down pretty good otherwise I think they would have been out.


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

Im Headed South said:


> Guess you know better than all the industry leaders that were there in support of the bill, you should have went, you could have been the lone dissenter. They're cooning them because that's all that's left, they've raped everywhere they can get to with boats, not big boats that draft a lot but shallow draft ones like the one below who was also there the other day. Fyi I'm told that cooning operation isn't there anymore because TPWD shut it down due to multiple violations.


If by "all the industry leaders" you mean the "buyers"? Because everyone I saw speak was a "buyer". Misho, Hillman, Hallili, etc.... Not one commercial oyster fisherman spoke.

And as usual you are wrong. They are "cooning" them because TPWD has closed almost every bay on the Texas coast. Christmas Bay is too shallow to dredge and with just about every other bay closed yes they are "herding" more and more boats into fewer and fewer bays. They have made cooning an effective way to harvest oysters where it never was before.

Mark my words. They will be here on the internet forever. Copy and paste them. If HB-51 is allowed to pass in its current form the price of oysters will go up. Pressure on the resource will increase.

I think we can agree on: Lets fund the parts of the bill that will help, trash the nonsense and get dredges out of the water.

Lets voluntarily reduce the number of dredges in the water.

Increasing the price via legislation will immediately cause the price to increase as it will the price of an oyster license. Making it more expensive for TPWD to buy them back.

Economics 101.


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

Stuart said:


> There were plenty of boats tied up at Bastrop Marina weekend before last. The tide was down pretty good otherwise I think they would have been out.


They are all gone


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## Im Headed South (Jun 28, 2006)

See that's the disconnect here, I could give a rats *** if the prices go up, they are too important to the ecosystem to continue down the same road until the fishery is completely wiped out. I like to eat oysters but if I have to choose them or a healthy bay system then I'll take the later and never think twice. If someone doesn't want to pay what the market says they cost then they can buy some tongs and a knife and get after it as a recreational angler.


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

Im Headed South said:


> See that's the disconnect here, I could give a rats *** if the prices go up, they are too important to the ecosystem to continue down the same road until the fishery is completely wiped out. I like to eat oysters but if I have to choose them or a healthy bay system then I'll take the later and never think twice. If someone doesn't want to pay what the market says they cost then they can buy some tongs and a knife and get after it as a recreational angler.


With 75+% of the bays permanently closed to the harvest of oysters you can rest assured the "ecosystem" is safe.

There is no shortage of oysters in our bay systems. They grow on every piling, pier and boat hull thats been left in the water for over a few months. Drive a piling in the water just about anywhere from South Bay to Sabine Lake and check it one year later. It will have oysters on it.

The problem is you have two regulatory agencies (TPWD and TDSHS) that have forced more and more boats into less and less area.

It would be like closing all the bays on the Texas Coast except one to the recreational harvest of Redfish and Trout. Hell yes it's going to get overfished. That's not a "management plan" it's a disaster. And like a typical bureaucrat you are all for doubling down on the same policies that got us here in the first place.

As Reagan said:
â€œGovernment is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem.â€


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## Lone-Star (Dec 19, 2009)

Im Headed South said:


> See that's the disconnect here, I could give a rats *** if the prices go up,


If the price goes up the pressure on the resource goes up. What you actually want is for the price to be so low it isn't worth the effort.

I'm a commercial fisherman. When the price of drum is high I will fish harder, put out more lines etc. Try and catch the whole **** school if I can. If the price gets run down low there's a point when most of the guys won't fish.


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## JavelinaRuss (Jul 24, 2007)

How do I know seafood prices tank? Guys show up in the plants in white shrimper boots :beer:


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## Im Headed South (Jun 28, 2006)

Lone-Star said:


> If the price goes up the pressure on the resource goes up. What you actually want is for the price to be so low it isn't worth the effort.
> 
> I'm a commercial fisherman. When the price of drum is high I will fish harder, put out more lines etc. Try and catch the whole **** school if I can. If the price gets run down low there's a point when most of the guys won't fish.


If TPWD keeps shutting bays down due to over fishing it isn't going to matter what you can sell them for if your not able to fish for them in the first place. Of course prices are going to go up, I never said they weren't, simple supply and demand would tell you the price is going to go up when three quarters of the bays are cut off from fishing because of over fishing as they are now but demand is still as high as ever. Maybe the reason three quarters of the US counts on the oysters from Texas is because we're selling them too **** cheap, other states have figured out the health of their ecosystem is more important than the profits of private corporations built upon a public resource. The shell that leaves the state by the 18 wheeler load in refrigerated trucks never comes back, it ends up in land fields all over the US and that's ridiculous, when that shell leaves it needs to be sent back or replaced by the ones removing it. You can either believe one guy on here that says there are plenty of oysters in the state or you can believe every other person I've ever spoken to about the issue from both private and TPWD biologist, Game Wardens, Oyster fisherman, and Oyster buyers who say the fishery is on the brink of collapse and something needs to be done, buying back licenses to reduce boats on the water will help, VMS so Wardens can see where boats are at and to make sure they are not fishing in closed waters will help, making the whole crew responsible for the legality of their catch will help. The above measures are no brainers, guess I should know if I was to find someone who had issues with it they would be from the commercial sector, despite the fact all of these proposals were generated by the Oyster Work Group who is made up of Oyster fisherman and buyers who volunteer their valuable time to meet and try to make sure they have a sustainable fishery for years to come.


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## The Last Mango (Jan 31, 2010)

TP&W has never had a contingency plan. If Texas would have had ample rainfall for the last 15 years instead of the drought we had until two years ago, this thread would have never been started


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

Lone-Star said:


> If the price goes up the pressure on the resource goes up. What you actually want is for the price to be so low it isn't worth the effort.
> 
> I'm a commercial fisherman. When the price of drum is high I will fish harder, put out more lines etc. Try and catch the whole **** school if I can. If the price gets run down low there's a point when most of the guys won't fish.


Exactly! At 20.00 a sack Christmas Bay was safe from commercial harvest. Too shallow to dredge. It was not economically feasible to **** them so the bay was untouched for decades until this year.

At 45.00 a sack and one of the few bays left on the coast open it became "worth the effort". Now with new regulations that are going to drive the price of oysters up the licenses are going to be much harder for the state to "retire". Hundreds of them that have been going unused will get put back on the water creating more pressure on the resource.

As a commercial license holder HB-51 is going to make me more money so I should be for it. Hence the industry support. But I know where this goes from here. We have been there, done that and got the Tshirt. With the exception of funding the buyback the rest of the bill is going to do more harm than good.


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## Lone-Star (Dec 19, 2009)

Im Headed South said:


> If TPWD keeps shutting bays down due to over fishing it isn't going to matter what you can sell them for if your not able to fish for them in the first place. Of course prices are going to go up, I never said they weren't, simple supply and demand would tell you the price is going to go up when three quarters of the bays are cut off from fishing because of over fishing as they are now but demand is still as high as ever. Maybe the reason three quarters of the US counts on the oysters from Texas is because we're selling them too **** cheap, other states have figured out the health of their ecosystem is more important than the profits of private corporations built upon a public resource. The shell that leaves the state by the 18 wheeler load in refrigerated trucks never comes back, it ends up in land fields all over the US and that's ridiculous, when that shell leaves it needs to be sent back or replaced by the ones removing it. You can either believe one guy on here that says there are plenty of oysters in the state or you can believe every other person I've ever spoken to about the issue from both private and TPWD biologist, Game Wardens, Oyster fisherman, and Oyster buyers who say the fishery is on the brink of collapse and something needs to be done, buying back licenses to reduce boats on the water will help, VMS so Wardens can see where boats are at and to make sure they are not fishing in closed waters will help, making the whole crew responsible for the legality of their catch will help. The above measures are no brainers, guess I should know if I was to find someone who had issues with it they would be from the commercial sector, despite the fact all of these proposals were generated by the Oyster Work Group who is made up of Oyster fisherman and buyers who volunteer their valuable time to meet and try to make sure they have a sustainable fishery for years to come.


I'm all for sensible regulation, I was just pointing out that you should care if a program/regulation raises prices because an increase in price could have the unintended consequence of putting more pressure on the resource.


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