# 7.62x51 Vs. .30-06



## Mustad7731 (May 23, 2004)

I've wanted to build a really nice .30 rife and I'm stuck on 2 cartridges for the winning caliber.
i spent the last couple of months trying to find out the true advantage of the .308/7.62x51 over the traditional .30-06 made in 1906 and so far all I've come up with is the 7.62 has a shorter cartridge which means less brass used in making cartridges.
The .30-06 has slightly more force and speed (greatly depending on the loads used) 
I've been putting 7.62's through machine guns for 3 years at animals and humans even foam targets and they never let me down when i want it hit it hits.
but I've talked to a decent of WW2/Korea vets and they all say the same about the .30-06 
I'm leaning more towards the .30-06 its been killing humans, deer, tigers, paper anything and everything else since 1906 and you cant beat those numbers if im not mistaken it has the most kills to its name. 
any insight from a more experienced pair of eyes would be greatly appreciated.


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## bumblebee2 (Feb 1, 2013)

Imho you won't go wrong with either cartridge. The .308 is right on the heels of the '06. 
Both can be accurate. Similar power.
Used to be that if you needed some ammo the '06 was easier to find in a small town hardware store. Now I would think if they have one they will probably have the other.
I know that's not helping you decide but its kinda like choosing between a Chevy truck and a gmc. Not enough difference to really matter.
Pick one and don't look back is my advice.


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

Actually, as I remember the .30-30 has more game animal kills than anything in this country. Date of inception doesn't mean much: Depends on what you want to do with it, if it was a hunting rifle, if you lock me down to just those two options, it's a tossup, with a little nod toward the .308 because there's more options than just a long-action bolt gun and a few others like the BAR and such... A benchrest gun, I'm doing the .308 for sure.


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## specktout (Aug 21, 2006)

Really depends on what you want to do with it, if you reload you can get the 30-06 up to near magnum velocities, if you just want an all around gun and are happy with lower velocities and lower recoil then the 308 may be the gun for you. Cost wise off the shelf ammo for both are about the same. Personally I think you should get both, can't have too many guns.


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## daddyhoney (Dec 4, 2006)

I have done it all with both and no problem with either. If I had to choose one it would be the 06 for more versatility. I have a Win. model 79 feather weight in 30-06 and it is all I could hope for. GG


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

specktout said:


> Cost wise off the shelf ammo for both are about the same. .


 It's fairly significantly easier to get bulk milsurp ammo in the .308 (okay, 7.62) than it is 30-06 nowadays... Not the greatest stuff for hunting or even accuracy work, but it's out there...


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## Pecos (Feb 20, 2006)

The 7.62 x 5 1/. 308 wins that race by a longshot if for no other reason than its availability on the AR-10 platform. To me at least, there is insignificant ballistic difference between the two *rounds* upon which to make a firm decision. I'm seeing gun after gun built on the AR-10 chassis with DPMS SASS barrels that consistently shoot five shot SUB-MINUTE groups way past 300 yards. The majority of my wood and steel rifle looney buddies has grudgingly made the switch from traditional deer rifle cartridge bolt guns to the AR's once they experience the ergonomics and accuracy of the platform. Do you need a magazine fed, sub inch gun to hunt deer with? Noâ€¦but they ain't bad. To hear the opinion of another true believer, call Capt. Mickey Eastman when he's doing his 610 outdoor show and ask him what he thinks about AR-10s shooting Barnes Triple Shok bullets at 170 class whitetails!

I'm not bashing the '06. It is a great roundâ€¦ Accurate and very very effective. Ask the ghosts of Carlos Hathcock and those umpteen North Vietnamese "hamburgers" that he dispatched with his Winchester model 70 'Nam era sniper rifle.

One of my all-time favorite rifles is a Ruger No.1 chambered in '06...then again, another, is a .308DPMS flat top with a NightForce.

You really can't go wrong with either caliber and, in all likelihood, your best path is simply to choose the type of rifle you are the most comfortable with.

PECOS


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## Ernest (May 21, 2004)

Below 160 grains, .308, around 160 grains, dead heat, above 170 grains, 30-06. Very round numbers

.308 is an inherently more accurate round, but that difference is meaningful for only small % of shooters. 

There is no wrong answer here. The best answer is, of course, get both.


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## coogerpop (Sep 3, 2009)

Short action vs long action.......


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

coogerpop said:


> Short action vs long action.......


X2


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## Bird (May 10, 2005)

coogerpop said:


> Short action vs long action.......


^^^this X3. You will also have more options available to you building a .308 especially on a Rem 700 action. There is just more stuff available in the short action than the long action.


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## pg542 (Oct 9, 2006)

coogerpop said:


> Short action vs long action.......


Bingo!...With mid weight ballistics being so similar between the two, I would opt for the shorter action.(.308) If you're looking for a bullet larger than say 175gr. , then maybe .06 is better suited. If bench accuracy is more important then hands down .308.


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## jm423 (Sep 18, 2011)

My Model 70 (pre-64) 30-06 stays. Several 308's have come and gone. Never found one that would shoot with, or had the feel of my M-70. And here I am going to tromp some toes, but you couldn't run fast enough to give me one of those black space-age looking monstrosities--I want a rifle that looks like a rifle. But I have been called old fashioned. Now let the firestorm begin.


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## llred (Jun 30, 2008)

dwilliams35 said:


> It's fairly significantly easier to get bulk milsurp ammo in the .308 (okay, 7.62) than it is 30-06 nowadays... Not the greatest stuff for hunting or even accuracy work, but it's out there...


Fairly significantly?


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## Pocketfisherman (May 30, 2005)

When the 308 cartridge came out, the NRA shrunk the size of the bullseyes on their standard rifle targets used for high power matches because it was that good. Read this thread, all three pages of it: http://forum.accurateshooter.com/index.php?topic=3831950.0


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

llred said:


> Fairly significantly?


 Uh, yes... with the increase in .308 AR's and the .308 M1A's in the last few years, they're really cranking out the bulk ammo now. Not so much on the 30-06...


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

jm423 said:


> My Model 70 (pre-64) 30-06 stays. Several 308's have come and gone. Never found one that would shoot with, or had the feel of my M-70. And here I am going to tromp some toes, but you couldn't run fast enough to give me one of those black space-age looking monstrosities--I want a rifle that looks like a rifle. But I have been called old fashioned. Now let the firestorm begin.


 You're not using that newfangled smokeless powder stuff, are ya?


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## jm423 (Sep 18, 2011)

Yes, Mr dwilliams35, I do us that "newfangled smokeless ----" And in the course of nearly 60 years of reloading, I have used quite a bit. I just prefer more conventional or classic firearms.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

I am with jm423 those plastic space age guns just dont look like guns. I know I know they are but just not for me.


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## jm423 (Sep 18, 2011)

Charlie, I think we see a generation gap (possibly) here--I'm 75 + several months.


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

I've got an appreciation for "classic" guns, and have my share of them as well: that being said, when it comes down to actual pills down the pipe, I have a hard time not recognizing that black plastic doesn't in any way hinder the proper operation of a capable firearm. I'm sure any advance or deviation in the art of the firearm through history was met with similar opposition and scorn at one level or another: every gun has its place, and every gun has its day.

Remember, an AR/M-16 with a non-removable carrying handle/sight and the triangular vietnam-era handguard is basically considered "classic" now as well: That's what happens with a 50 year old design..


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

jm423

I think you are 100 % correct. Maybe 40 or 50 years from now dwilliams35 wont like the new guns either. I think my lil 30 carbine is a heck of a lot better truck gun than these new guns. Lot tougher. LOL


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## Bharvey (Mar 24, 2013)

You can't go wrong with either, but go with what YOU WANT and will be satisfied with. If you're partial to the .308 and have had success with it, go with it. In other words, "Don't fix what ain't broke." I love both calibers but I hunt with a .308. My dad has a .30-06 that has driven tacks for YEARS.

Not only do I like to hunt, but I like to shoot as well. The .308 offers me everything I could need in a hunting rifle, but has manageable recoil; enough for me to shoot at the range without fatigue. I'd personally go with the .308, but it's a biased opinion on my part. Either way, no one can overstate the success both rounds have had. Go with your gut and with what you'd enjoy.


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## Surffishwant2B (May 22, 2004)

150 fps is the difference and I am sure deer, hogs or even elk wont be able to tell what hit them when there down


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

CHARLIE said:


> jm423
> 
> I think you are 100 % correct. Maybe 40 or 50 years from now dwilliams35 wont like the new guns either. I think my lil 30 carbine is a heck of a lot better truck gun than these new guns. Lot tougher. LOL


40 or 50 years from now I'll be a heck of a lot older, and maybe even grumpier, than you guys are now.. :biggrin:

I doubt your premise: I just don't have one type of gun I'm an aficionado of: I've got antique guns of several types, but I also just finished putting together an AR in .204 ruger this week; It'd be pretty easy for me to pull the same "generation gap" argument already with a lot of the firearms that are coming out today: they quite simply weren't around during the formative years of my firearms tastes.. I'm more of an fan of elegant mechanical design, either in conjunction with or separately from simply beautiful guns: as I said, they've each got their place. Even Mr. Stoner and Mr. Kalishnikov's designs have a real elegance in the mechanical design arena, and I appreciate such design as much as I do spectacular woodgrain on a EELL Beretta or a Browning Superposed.. I've got no use for quite a few really chunky, cheap weapons that are out there now, but if it's a piece that is done well in design, manufacture, and/or finish, I just don't really care whether the design is from this century, the last, or the one before that.

As far as your truck gun, I've got several different ones I use during my travels through the pasture behind the house: a very basic AR, a Model 94, and an AK-47 underfolder: if I was to choose one and only one based on durability and suitability for the task, I'd probably have to pick the AK..


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## Pocketfisherman (May 30, 2005)

dwilliams35 said:


> -SNIPPED - but I also just finished putting together an AR in .204 ruger this week -SNIPPED--


I would sure like to hear more about this after you have a chance to wring her out and find out what she likes to eat.


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

Pocketfisherman said:


> I would sure like to hear more about this after you have a chance to wring her out and find out what she likes to eat.


 Me too... I'm shooting for having some bench time on in Thursday, we'll see what happens. I'll post up results..


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Hey D

Throw you an old GI 30 carbine in the mix of truck guns and try it. You mite like it. Aint bad for a 70 year old gun. By the way its fun shooting the bull with you.


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## Ready.Fire.Aim (Sep 22, 2009)

jm423 said:


> My Model 70 (pre-64) 30-06 stays. .... And here I am going to tromp some toes, but you couldn't run fast enough to give me one of those black space-age looking monstrosities--I want a rifle that looks like a rifle. But I have been called old fashioned. Now let the firestorm begin.


Here's a nice pre '64 rifle that looks like a rifle. 
.
It does have one of those new-fangled, trigger operated, wheel-lock igniters, most of the fusiliers I hang out with are traditionalists and prefer to carry a lit wick on a pole for touching off the powder.










Thanks in advance for being a good sport 

.


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

CHARLIE said:


> Hey D
> 
> Throw you an old GI 30 carbine in the mix of truck guns and try it. You mite like it. Aint bad for a 70 year old gun. By the way its fun shooting the bull with you.


 If one of you old farts was to give me one, I'd be proud to let it bounce around on the floorboard for a while...

Ditto the shooting the bull...


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## jm423 (Sep 18, 2011)

So now we degenerate from stating preferences for types of firearms to name calling? Certainly wasn't my intention. I prefer my pickup to a Rolls-Royce, I prefer my tractors to airplanes. Whatever your preference is, go with it. And look in the mirror before you start with the name calling.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

jm423

I really saw no name calling. I think old fart is pretty close when it comes to me. LOL. All in fun. I thought the picture of the rifle ?? was hilarious. I may have had one years ago..


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## jm423 (Sep 18, 2011)

OK Charlie--I can go with that. And I won't call anybody a "young whippersnapper" for now.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

LOL


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## pg542 (Oct 9, 2006)

CHARLIE said:


> jm423
> 
> I really saw no name calling. I think old fart is pretty close when it comes to me. LOL. All in fun. I thought the picture of the rifle ?? was hilarious. I may have had one years ago..


....You bring a lot of valuable insight to this board Charlie. It wouldn't be the same here without you......same goes for a couple of the other old farts too...


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Again LOL and thanks.. Remember old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill every time. heard that somewhere..


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

jm423 said:


> So now we degenerate from stating preferences for types of firearms to name calling? Certainly wasn't my intention. I prefer my pickup to a Rolls-Royce, I prefer my tractors to airplanes. Whatever your preference is, go with it. And look in the mirror before you start with the name calling.


 I'm assuming that was in response to my "old farts" comment: which was, in turn, in response to the possibility of a "generation gap" which has been brought up here: if anybody took offense to that, I assure you that wasn't my intention, and I apologize if that stirred up some trouble.. All in good fun...


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

You are young whippersnapper thats all thats wrong with you D. I bet you probably like those plastic Glock's too instead of those good ole 1911's


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

CHARLIE said:


> You are young whippersnapper thats all thats wrong with you D. I bet you probably like those plastic Glock's too instead of those good ole 1911's


 Actually, I've got both. More 1911's than Glocks, for sure. As far as I'm concerned, the glock's pretty much perfect for a carry gun, and for a whole lot else for that matter.. That being said, when you really get down to it, my heart will always belong to the 1911 and the Browning over/under shotgun... See, I'm not all about plastic....


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Wow D I am impressed. See, you are not as bad as folks say. Have a good day my friend and enjoyed BS'n with you.


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## Ready.Fire.Aim (Sep 22, 2009)

CHARLIE said:


> Again LOL and thanks.. Remember old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill every time. heard that somewhere..


Advice I got many years ago: "Never get in a fight with an old man you can't back down from. He knows he can't win so he will just kill you instead."


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## Mustad7731 (May 23, 2004)

Just want to put a couple things out there.
First thank you for the experience and wisdom that you have shared. Al of it is very much appreciated.
Second sorry to disappoint D but I have spent the last 4 years trudging through jungles, forests, the dessert and even a few city's (fake but still) with the tried tested and true M16A4 service rifle and I can say with out a doubt after aprox 20,000 rounds I will never own any AR platform rifle that is not 5.56x45 consider it nostalgic for me.
And lastly I think I will go with a .308/7.62 it seems the better all around solution with a great amount of versatility for present and future generations.
It's is military classic after all going strong after the .30 was retired. Still both great cartridges and I plan to have them both in my collection as I wise man posted earlier on this thread "You can never have to many guns." 
Once again thank you for your help
Jack Ickes


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## jm423 (Sep 18, 2011)

I share your enthusiasm for the 5.56/ 223. In these days of bum shoulder, high priced (when available) components and ammo, it has become my round of choice as an all around ranch and plinking rifle--In a bolt action. I just don't care for the AR type platform. Of all the critters up to and including some fair sized hogs, I have only needed the 2'nd shot on one, a hog that I hit a wire between me and said hog. Still laid him down, 44 Mag resolved the issue. Back to the original post, I have no hang-ups about the 308/ 7.62. It has been my fortune (or misfortune) to never have found one that shot and/ or handled to suit me like my old M-70/ 30-06. Were the roles reversed, I would probably be a 308 fan, in a bolt rifle. Wish you the best whichever way you go. JM


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## peckerwood (Jun 9, 2012)

I'm an old fart,and have way,way too many rifles that I've built and gathered up over the years,and my go too rifle is an old Husqvarna .308 that I got for building a bumper for a cat to pull a backhoe with.I have some shinney,and some black.Not one rifle is better than the other.Some fit me better than others though.I have never owned a .223 and really think I want one.Never heard a dude say they thought 5.56 was a piece of shi+ the way they slam others.Not one calibur is better than the other.I think every woman alive should be an exact copy of a 40 year old Raquel Welch.


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## dolch (Aug 19, 2005)

I find it entertaining that some argue that the 308 ballistics are on par with the 30'06, yet imply that that on par velocity kicks substantially less. 

I own both. Both are great rounds. 

I prefer the '06 for the option to shoot 180 grain bullets well, and because it was my first rifle. It's still the gun I hunt with most (in model 70)

There are lots of reasons to argue for one over the other. 308 has the momentum these days. 

You can't lose either way.


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