# This is not wildlife management!!!!!! Please Read!



## phi214 (Jul 17, 2007)

Do you feel that selling day hunts all season on a 60 acre piece of land is proper game management? Check out this ad on craigslist!!! Have you hunted on this guys property or know who this is? Any help would be great!!!!

http://sanantonio.craigslist.org/spo/2097740569.html


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## southtxhunter (Feb 1, 2005)

they'll high fence him out....


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## HillCountry Hunter (Apr 9, 2009)

If you dont like it, dont go. 
What are you planning on doing when you do find out who this is? 

(BTW I have no idea who this is)


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## JDS (Jul 14, 2004)

All booked up for December??? He must have a heck of a lot of animals on that 60 acres.
I went on a couple of day hunts when I was younger, and swore I would never do it again.
Not saying this place is not great, but it would seem reasonable that with that much pressure, if there is any game left, it is probably completely nocturnal.


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## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

He's not managing; he's utilizing his property to gain income.

TH


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## El Carnicero (Aug 27, 2009)

Trouthunter said:


> He's not managing; he's utilizing his property to gain income.
> 
> TH


 What is the problem with that? If thats what he wants to do, Who is phi214 to tell him any different?


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## Fishin Tails (Mar 21, 2007)

Outstanding ******* Hospitality! What does that mean?


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## El Carnicero (Aug 27, 2009)

******* Hospitality?


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## TailHunter3 (May 21, 2009)

Classic difference between even though it is legal to do what he is doing, it still doesn't make it right. 

He is also the example of if you are buying a piece of property, this owner is the reason why you ask what the owners of the neighboring ranches are like.

I just hate set ups like this... I would personally donate to the neighboring owners to help high fence this guy out.

Buck tags should be given out by acreage and not by hunter...

I know some of you will respond to my post of "if you don't like it don't go" or "he can do what he wants with his own property" but I would submit this to you for consideration.... If all landowners did what he was doing, what kind of quality wildlife population would we have in Texas? This guy is selfishly trying to take all he can and profit from it at the expense of the landowners around him.


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## kweber (Sep 20, 2005)

I aint seen any hunting ranches in Tx that are non-profit org.'s 
PRIVATE PROPERTY... same as yer house.


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## Spec-Rig.006 (Nov 2, 2007)

As long as he's not your neighbor I wouldn't worry about it much.


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## kweber (Sep 20, 2005)

example of legality and "what is right".
my wife feels "it aint right for me to **** off the deck" but it isnt illegal.


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## dmwz71 (Feb 5, 2010)

HillCountry Hunter said:


> If you dont like it, dont go.
> What are you planning on doing when you do find out who this is?
> 
> (BTW I have no idea who this is)


X2



El Carnicero said:


> What is the problem with that? If thats what he wants to do, Who is phi214 to tell him any different?


X2

I don't see what the problem is here.....Guy owns some property, leases it out by the day to hunters who probably have no other place to hunt, or can't afford a fancier place.....what is the problem? Why does it upset you? Maybe he needs the money, or maybe he just wants to do what he is doing.....It's HIS land....he is entitled to do with it whatever he chooses to do.....If someone does not like it, they do not have to patronize him. Why would someone get upset about that? It ain't like he's gonna decimate the Texas whitetail deer herd..................


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## chapman53559 (Jun 19, 2009)

kweber said:


> example of legality and "what is right".
> my wife feels "it aint right for me to **** off the deck" but it isnt illegal.


Envy?


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## MIKE S. (Apr 8, 2007)

phi214 said:


> Do you feel that selling day hunts all season on a 60 acre piece of land is proper game management? Check out this ad on craigslist!!! Have you hunted on this guys property or know who this is? Any help would be great!!!!
> 
> http://sanantonio.craigslist.org/spo/2097740569.html


Respond to the ad if you want to know who he is. He might give you a discount for helping him advertise....


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## RogerB (Oct 11, 2005)

you might want to take a look
http://2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/showthread.php?t=310690&page=2
post #72. May not be the same guy, but it sounds like it.
not every small hunt operation is run right, not every small hunt operation is run wrong - but if this is the same guy and if he is under surveillance I think I'd find someplace else to hunt


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## mustangeric (May 22, 2010)

1st off i dont agree with what he is doing. i dont feel its right but at the same time it is his land and i dont have the right to tell him what he can and cant do


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## TailHunter3 (May 21, 2009)

I could not disagree more with most of you.

It is like sitting at a traffic light when it is red and you are the 1st one in line. But, you are not paying attention when the light turns green. Now, 6 or 7 vehicles have to spend another 5 minutes sitting there waiting on the next light. Who am I to tell that guy in his own vehicle when he should and should not get through that light?

You own a house in a neighborhood with no home owners restrictions and your neighbor has 3 cars sitting in the yard. Your propety value and your enjoyment of your home is decreased because of your neighbors sloppiness. Who are you to say what that neighbor should do with "his" property.

A family has two screaming kids in church on Sunday but still stays in her seat disrupting the service and everyone around them. Who am I to tell that lady what she should do with her kids.

We all have similar stories around us and this type thing is no different and there are a 1,000 more examples....

I say everyone needs to get their head out of the sand and realize we all have a social responsibility to be good neighbors. At our homes, at traffic lights, on the water or in the woods, we should all stive to be good neighbors. If we all acted like selfish fools, we wouldn't have much of a quality of life. We are not in this world alone even on 60 acres 10 miles from home... Nope, no islands here as we all share this world.


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## oldriver88 (May 5, 2008)

phi214-

If he's doing illegal activity on his 60 acres, tell the game warden. But...if you are just pizzed that he is seeing more deer than you on his small tract of land, well, I know a great guy you can buy high fence from! Trophy whitetails also...lol!


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## Rusty S (Apr 6, 2006)

He is selling day hunts for $150, end of story, probably not a whole bunch of deer left after the first couple of weekends. It is his land, there are places like this all over Texas, I have never heard the 3 limit off a piece of land rule. Your better off trying to bust him for tax evasion, as long as he has tags to fill lawfully, he can take as many as he wants off his property---not saying it's right but what do you really think he cares about your opinion. rs


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## phi214 (Jul 17, 2007)

I guess I will chime back in on this one. 

The guy selling the hunts is leasing the land from another person. It literally sounds like a shooting range every weekend. I am not very far from where he is and I have been letting all my young deer pass through and have only taken one mature eight point off my place. This just sucks because I had alot of good looking deer on cam before the season that were both young and old and now they are few and far between. I leased this land for myself and my father and was really excited about staying here a while. It just looks like now I am going to have to move. 

I understand that this guy is just making money but as responsible hunters establishing a basis for future generations, we must do things to prevent these types of things from happening. Saying that it's his land and he can do what he wants is a cop out and you would change your tune if he moved next door to you.


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## Spec-Rig.006 (Nov 2, 2007)

phi214
Age: 31
Posts: 77
Infractions"' 0/1 (10) ... what in the ____ are "Infractions" ... ?!?!? You're the only one I see with any. Seriously, I've never seen this before ... not trying to jack your thread.


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## Texas Jeweler (Nov 6, 2007)

phi214 said:


> Do you feel that selling day hunts all season on a 60 acre piece of land is proper game management? Check out this ad on craigslist!!! Have you hunted on this guys property or know who this is? Any help would be great!!!!
> 
> http://sanantonio.craigslist.org/spo/2097740569.html


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

While it is not something I agree with, it is his business how he conducts his operations.


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## Rusty S (Apr 6, 2006)

phi214 said:


> Saying that it's his land and he can do what he wants is a cop out and you would change your tune if he moved next door to you.


Do your homework before you lease on your neighbors, since you know a little about the guy, see if he has a lease license from TP&W and go talk to the owner of the land. Sounds like you leased next door to him, buy the piece of land from the owner and problem solved, shouldn't be too much since the area is shot out. rs


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## phi214 (Jul 17, 2007)

Infraction......I don't get on here much and was not aware that you are not supposed to sell stuff in this forum. I posted some pics of my jeep I am selling and got an infraction. Lesson learned. That has nothing to do with this thread though.


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## Rusty S (Apr 6, 2006)

Spec-Rig.006 said:


> phi214
> Age: 31
> Posts: 77
> Infractions"' 0/1 (10) ... what in the ____ are "Infractions" ... ?!?!? You're the only one I see with any. Seriously, I've never seen this before ... not trying to jack your thread.


Really, pm Mont and see if you can get one of your own, they are kinda like a status symbol here on 2Cool---but if you don't keep up they dissapear from the public eye.:headknock rs


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## devil1824 (Sep 4, 2010)

Auger was the only other person I have seen infractions on. I did'nt ask cause I was still pretty new to everything.

I don't agree with what this guy is doing but it is legal and you are probably going to have to move on to be happy. I wish I had a 1000 acres all to myself so I could manage a heard and bow hunt only and also have 2 or 3 hundred acres for deer only and no hunting allowed.


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## Nokillbill (Nov 27, 2006)

i think the guy is selling deerstand time and not deer hunts. probly after his family and friends shot the hell out of deer opening weekend most of the deer have left the area. id be surprised if any of the day hunters actually killed a deer . the shots you are hearing are probly shots at squerrils and dillos or just target practice from shear bordom.


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## Spec-Rig.006 (Nov 2, 2007)

Rusty ... you'd think that as much cussing as I do, I'd have plenty ...

I wouldn't worry about the day guy. You hammer them too hard on that few acres and they're just going to leave the property or at least stay out of there during daylight hours.


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## CoastalOutfitters (Aug 20, 2004)

one year, we had some clowns kill 26 deer off of 25 acres next to us in Lampasass, 8 stands w feeders,.

That was before the horn rule went in, in that county.


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## Barrett (Jun 6, 2005)

Popcorn almost ready! This gonna get good....... gonna be like the high fence thread on steriods


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## phi214 (Jul 17, 2007)

This is great land around here with plenty of groceries. It could totally produce some awesome deer if managed right. This is not proper management. It literally sounds like a shooting range over there all day long.


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## AvianQuest (Feb 7, 2006)

*This is not wildlife management*

Big deal...

The guy is selling day hunts on his land. This is done all over the state.

You would pay $150 a day for the hunt which consists of being able to hunt a property that you couldn't hunt on for free. There is no guarantee of a kill, or even that you will see a deer, or that there will even be a deer on the property when you are there.

Nor is there any claim that this land is managed for wildlife. How many deer were shot there last season? Any?

Typically a 60 acre property in that area will have some deer on it and deer from surrounding properties will walk through it just as the deer from the 60 acres will walk off the property. If you happen to cross paths with a deer then you have a chance of shooting it. You're paying $150 for that chance. It's called "hunting".


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## cobrayakker (Mar 23, 2006)

It just looks like now I am going to have to move. 

What is the contact info for the land owner you lease from. I might be interested!


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## El Carnicero (Aug 27, 2009)

It seems he's bent that they are having a shooting gallery over there while he's trying to manage his property where he leased.

My pops leased a new spot this year, guess what, its right next to a county road where all the locals cruise 4wheelers, dirt bikes, bubba trucks and shoot and drink beer. All within 100 yards from his first stand. Its no wonder that all his game cameras got stolen. You never know how they do it on the next property. This is his last year on that lease and we will pack whats left of his gear up and move to another. And hope he can get on a spot where there is decent neighbors, you might want to consider the same.


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## AvianQuest (Feb 7, 2006)

phi214 said:


> It literally sounds like a shooting range over there all day long.


You're assuming that deer are going to be steadily streaming through the property?

The average range of a whitetail deer is a square mile, which is 640 acres. This property is 60 acres, so deer are going to be spending more time on the neighboring property than on this one.

There may be one shoot fired the whole day, maybe more, maybe none. It's not rational to believe that somehow deer are going to making Kamikaze runs through the property while jockeying for position to see who can get shot first.


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## vvflash04 (Oct 2, 2007)

I would lease it out from under him next year if I was that ticked off. Not that I like that practice but it solve the problem.

my .02


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## POS Capt'n (Oct 24, 2008)

I had to go back and reread this thread. For a minute I thought I had wound up back on the Big E tuna massacre thread from that other forum


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## Bukkskin (Oct 21, 2009)

phi214 said:


> Do you feel that selling day hunts all season on a 60 acre piece of land is proper game management? Check out this ad on craigslist!!! Have you hunted on this guys property or know who this is? Any help would be great!!!!
> 
> http://sanantonio.craigslist.org/spo/2097740569.html


LOL. It sucks phi214, but This is a PRIME Example of why people high fence their "Thousands of acres" that surround this place. What a Potlicker..:headknock


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## TailHunter3 (May 21, 2009)

60 acres is not enough land to be running a commercial deer hunting operation on... Again, the Ad stated all of December is booked.

The question is not "is day leasing ok". The bigger or higher level question is being courteous to others and being a good neighbor.

For you fisherman, it would be like getting on some good fish and some potlicker comes and pulls up besides you and in the process messes up the fishing for everyone.

Most people just don't do enough to think of how their actions affects others which is well exemplified by some of the posts on this topic. 

Besides, think of the poor hunter who doesn't know better, pays the $150 to take his son hunting and ends up with a bad experience and no game sighting because the place is shot out.


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## Rusty S (Apr 6, 2006)

TailHunter3 said:


> 60 acres is not enough land to be running a commercial deer hunting operation on... Again, the Ad stated all of December is booked.
> 
> The question is not "is day leasing ok". The bigger or higher level question is being courteous to others and being a good neighbor.
> 
> ...


Your still not getting it, if he is running hunts on 60 acres, he does not care what the neighbors think much less about courtesy. rs


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## AvianQuest (Feb 7, 2006)

TailHunter3 said:


> Besides, think of the poor hunter who doesn't know better, pays the $150 to take his son hunting and ends up with a bad experience and no game sighting because the place is shot out.


Lack of data...

We have no way of knowing if the place is shot up or not. What if no one has shot anything so far off their two stands?

Yeah, if the dad doesn't know anything about day hunting and buys this with high expectations, then it could certainly be a disappointment. But he's buying a cheap hunt, not a guaranteed kill that would cost many times that amount. The alternative would be to go public hunting.

That landowner has the right to hunt his property, lease it out, sell day hunts, not allow any hunting, etc.

I'm not going there, but as long as they aren't violating any game laws, I could care less. There are certainly far larger properties with a lot more people on them and I'm confident that many of them are hunted a lot harder than this place.


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## hunter98 (May 26, 2008)

I don't agree with it at all but who am I too say what anyone can or can't do. I do suspect a couple of guys on here that support the ideal are day leasors or outfitters theirselves.


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## impulse (Mar 17, 2010)

$150 for the possibility of seeing and shooting at a deer or $10,000 (plus or minus) for a more scientifically managed, higher possibility of seeing and shooting at perhaps a nicer deer- that is if they let you shoot the ones you see... 

It takes all kinds and I'm glad there are still places for each to pursue what they enjoy at a price level they can afford.

I doubt they booked out an entire month on first timers so perhaps some enjoyed their last visit. Give me ******* hospitality over snobbish treatment any day, especially if the price is right.


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## Screeminreel (Jun 2, 2004)

phi214 said:


> This is great land around here with plenty of groceries. It could totally produce some awesome deer if managed right. This is not proper management. It literally sounds like a shooting range over there all day long.


I can appreciate your irritation as I had a lease a while back which was very similar. We had 6 hunters on 595 acres, most of which was open pasture. We were subleasing from the fella who ran cattle on it. The surrounding property was low fenced and leased for day hunting. Opening weekend through Thanksgiving it sounded like a war zone over there. We hunted not only for quantity but also quality. We concentrated on the lesser bucks, and mostly does. In 4 years we went from scraggly horned typical hill country deer, to deer which were pushing around 130 - 150 dressed weight, and sported inside spreads of around 18" on the norm.

While we did have deer which crossed the fences, going both ways, it wasn't easy for us to plant food plots, and keep feeders running year round, but we did, and held more and better deer than we could possibly shoot. We made it so the deer had a choice and didn't have to head over to the shooting gallery next door.

You mention your place "would be" great IF properly managed. However you don't say what your doing towards this. If you put out the time money and effort to concentrate as good, or better supplemental feeding than is used next door, in the middle areas and on the opposite side of your property, you will hold and keep more deer on your side of the fence.

You can never keep the deer from doing what they will do, with fencing they can crawl through or jump over. Your also going to have some that no matter what will head over if they can and or want too. You can however make it so they have no need or desire to do so. Set up a sanctuary area away from the shooting, stay the hell out of it, and they will use it. Set up and maintain high quality feeding year round and they will use it. Crying about folks on the other side of the fence shooting YOUR deer is not productive and it will continue until there is no resource to maintain the effort.


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## MRussell (Mar 19, 2010)

In the near future biologists will have probes to insert in captured deer that will give us the deers take on the practice! :work:


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## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

If you are dumb enough to pay for a 60 acre day lease, you are smart enough to have your wallet fleeced.


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## Marshman (Jul 24, 2008)

My BIL has some guys with a 20 acre lease next to his 300 acres he owns. There are FIVE blinds on it, each with a feeder, all on the fences. BIL has cut a fresh sendero 50 yards wide down the fence line. From the blind on one end, he has gotten pretty good at smacking dirt clods with his rifle near any deer that even looks like it is going to cross that fence. I told him I thought he was hunting dirt clods and blood pressure excursions more than whitetail these days. He laughed and said " well..... maybe!". 

His son is an absolute terror though with his 243, 11 yr old shoots like a Marine gunny! That's what lots of BB's and 22 shorts will do for you.

Sorry for your situation though. Not much you can do other than buy that piece of land, since you are leasing yours. If you owned it, you could fence it, I'm just saying... The law is what it is.


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## TripleSranch (Jan 16, 2010)

*X2*



Rusty S said:


> Your still not getting it, if he is running hunts on 60 acres, he does not care what the neighbors think much less about courtesy. rs


X2 sad but true!!!!


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## AvianQuest (Feb 7, 2006)

What if a family leases, or owns, 60 acres and they hunt it often during the season?

Just how much area can you cover from your stand? 

I could cover about 20 acres if I were the middle of a round food plot, but most of the places I've scored deer on only had 1/2 to 3 acres that were in my comfortable rifle range.

Heck, one property that I hunt occasionally is 15 acres and it's set up with two stands. The stands cover about one acre of opening each.


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## steverino (Mar 8, 2006)

*Day Hunt 60 Acres*

Phil, I feel your pain!!! I bought 50 acres in Rocksprings in 2002. It was in a ranchette subdivision that was originally a large ranch that was divided into 50 acre plots and sold in 1996. It was more or less shot out when I got there. Between a few good neighbors and myself we've limited what we took off our property. We still have some neighbors that are on 50 acre parcels that hunt 2-6 +- people each trip. We are now going thru a change in ownership and many of the original owners are selling out. The property is also going up in value causing others to sell out. Between a few neighbors and myself we own 350 acres (I own 150 of these acres) on one end of the subdivision. We also have several wells and dirt tanks on our end since there is no all weather creeks or rivers in our area. After 8 years of work and investment I harvested my first non-spike buck this season! It was a nice 8-pointer. I also have a lot of turkey and even some Axis on my place. We also have a varying number of hogs to keep us challenged between hunting seasons! I do not regret buying this property.
To deal with neighbors like yours I would befriend the Game Warden and County Sheriff and keep them aware of what may be going on. We have had hunters park their vehicles along the private roads and community windmill well property in the past. We have also had them bait and hunt the roads in front of our property. The past few seasons we have not seen this being done. We also do not get our camps, 4-wheelers, feeders, stands, etc. messed with (knock on wood!). May of these subdivisions say in their deed restrictions (?) that the onwers' cannot sell hunts or lease their property for hunting. I know that these are seldom enforced and difficult to prove. I guess the final leverage may be to report the individual to IRS as many property owners/leasees sell hunts but never report the income!!!
There are many forces working to take away the pleasures of the recreational sportsman. Many of us observe our limits, believe in humane treatment of animals (even the ones we harvest) and take only what we need and consume. Don't let a few sorry neighbors take away these pleasurable family experiences!!! Good luck!


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## Bowl_full_o_Jelly (Jan 1, 2011)

I can't criticize the guy too much. I grew up hunting small pieces of land. The deer and birds definately shared ranches, but what do you do; not hunt? Also, my bet is that mostly scrub bucks, does and hogs are what people end up shooting. The neighbors might be perfectly happy with that (especially the hogs).


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## RogerB (Oct 11, 2005)

Rusty S said:


> Your still not getting it, if he is running hunts on 60 acres, he does not care what the neighbors think much less about courtesy. rs


that may be true of this guy. But I know about 10-12 years ago there was an old couple near Fredricksburg that had 90 acres surrounded by big neighbor ranches. They offered something similar to this offer. $150 per day, no kill fee, but only one animal per day. didn't matter what the animal was, it could be a whitetail, exotic, hog, whatever was in season and whatever crossed their land. I think he had 2 or 3 feeders and blinds. the neighbor ranches knew about the setup and didn't care. He and his wife had no income, no family and limited benefits. his hunts kept him and his wife fed and the bills paid. 
I never made it up there to hunt but a couple of friends did and they had a ball, harvested their limit in whitetail, took some exotics and a few hogs. Seems the 90 acres draws critters from the surrounding neighbors because of water and the feeders just happen to keep them around a little.

I always wanted to go just to see what it was like . I tried calling the number that had previously worked and it was no longer in service. My friend asked around town and was told the old man passed away and I guess the wife sold the place to the two neighbors who had treated them so good.


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