# Big bunch of oyster boats in Galveston



## Big Grouper (Oct 1, 2008)

Driving down the TCD this morning. Lots of oyster boats clumped together. I assume this is a protest to the battle over the beds? I am all for our local guys!!!


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## shallowminded (May 21, 2004)

I have seen as many as 10 working one reef before in East Bay. Were they going in tight circles? If so, this is how they operate during open season.

Looks like Hanna's reef last summer with all the fishing boats. Ha Ha.

Shallow


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## Big Grouper (Oct 1, 2008)

They are sitting still. That's why I posted.


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## Kenner 23 (Sep 14, 2009)

We are over sold on oyster boats so I'll send 80 your way. Please send long/lat ASAP.


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## pocjetty (Sep 12, 2014)

Down here, I'm convinced they work as a collective. A few bigger boats tear down the reef more effectively, and a bunch of smaller boats collect. They don't leave until everyone has their load for the day.

There's a mid-bay reef that I fished that not many people know about. Last year they converged on it, and just destroyed it. I didn't think it was big enough to merit that much attention, but they pretty much made sure that it isn't now.


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## Kenner 23 (Sep 14, 2009)

pocjetty said:


> Down here, I'm convinced they work as a collective. A few bigger boats tear down the reef more effectively, and a bunch of smaller boats collect. They don't leave until everyone has their load for the day.
> 
> There's a mid-bay reef that I fished that not many people know about. Last year they converged on it, and just destroyed it. I didn't think it was big enough to merit that much attention, but they pretty much made sure that it isn't now.


Certainly you are mistaken? Oyster boats are a vital part of the ocean Eco sytem and would never destroy their livelihood with over harvest.:headknock


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## Feathershredder (Nov 29, 2009)




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## Feathershredder (Nov 29, 2009)

Surprised nobody has anything to say about the video posted. As a fisherman that was raised fishing Galveston bay I think something needs to change. Wiping a reef completely off the map should not be acceptable. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


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## Bocephus (May 30, 2008)

They harvest the mature Oysters, and seed the reef with shell/clutch...to grow new ones.

Harvesting the mature Oysters from a reef is routine, it's how they are harvested. Where do you think those great Oysters you eat on the half shell come from ? The reef is not destroyed !

Here's some info to explain it. Hope this helps.

http://aqua.ucdavis.edu/DatabaseRoot/pdf/432FS.PDF


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## Feathershredder (Nov 29, 2009)

I am pretty sure you mean you and I seed that reef to grow new ones! TPWD restored that reef so it could produce oysters again. And at the rate those boats are going at it I bet there is not a legal oyster left on it! I have personally fished a public reef one month (marked it on my sonar) and the next you cant find hard bottom on the sonar. The public reefs get raped while the private reefs flourish.


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## Bocephus (May 30, 2008)

Feathershredder said:


> I am pretty sure you mean you and I seed that reef to grow new ones! TPWD restored that reef so it could produce oysters again. And at the rate those boats are going at it I bet there is not a legal oyster left on it! I have personally fished a public reef one month (marked it on my sonar) and the next you cant find hard bottom on the sonar. The public reefs get raped while the private reefs flourish.


Well, reefs in Galveston Bay have been getting all the mature Oysters drug off of them for many, many years. Longer than you've been alive probably...lol. They reseed them, and do it all over again when they are mature. The base of the reef is still there....then when reseeded, the Oysters grow again.

It looks terrible, but it's part of the process.


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## Feathershredder (Nov 29, 2009)

Can you tell me the last time you saw 106 oyster boats work one 30 acre reef in Galveston bay?


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## Bocephus (May 30, 2008)

Feathershredder said:


> Can you tell me the last time you saw 106 oyster boats work one 30 acre reef in Galveston bay?


Whether is 10, 50, 75, or 106...it doesn't matter. ALL THE MATURE OYSTERS WILL BE HARVESTED by however many boats decide to drag it !!!!

The base of the reef is still there....they reseed, and more Oysters grow.

I know this may seem hard for you to understand. But it how it's done. The number of boats is irrelevant !


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## Feathershredder (Nov 29, 2009)

We can agree to disagree. Lets see how many boats are on this same reef next year harvesting, that should tell us who's right or wrong


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## Bocephus (May 30, 2008)

Feathershredder said:


> We can agree to disagree. Lets see how many boats are on this same reef next year harvesting, that should tell us who's right or wrong


LMAO....carry on little buddy, you got this.

Call Jeri's seafood in Smith Point, ask to talk to Ben Nelson the owner. Let Ben tell you exactly what I'm telling you.

:headknock


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## Feathershredder (Nov 29, 2009)

you think there will be that many boats harvesting the same spot next year? I bet they are off of it by the end of the week.


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## Bocephus (May 30, 2008)

Feathershredder said:


> you think there will be that many boats harvesting the same spot next year? I bet they are off of it by the end of the week.


You and SmackerDaddy need to hook up, you guys would be like Dumb & Dumber...


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## kenny (May 21, 2004)

Bocephus said:


> You and SmackerDaddy need to hook up, you guys would be like Dumb & Dumber...


LMAO


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## Feathershredder (Nov 29, 2009)

Bocephus said:


> LMAO....carry on little buddy, you got this.
> 
> Call Jeri's seafood in Smith Point, ask to talk to Ben Nelson the owner. Let Ben tell you exactly what I'm telling you.
> 
> :headknock


Lol, that's what I am trying to say here. Private leases are going to get reseeded year after year. The public resource ( like the reef you see in the video) will not get reseeded year after year. The public reefs get wiped out as soon as there is a mature oyster on it and will never be given the time to recover, that is the problem! More private leases = better for us fisherman. For those who don't know...all the white poles everyone fishes by in Galveston bay...those are private leases!


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## Feathershredder (Nov 29, 2009)

Bocephus said:


> You and SmackerDaddy need to hook up, you guys would be like Dumb & Dumber...


how am I like dumb an dumber for pointing out that a PUBLIC reef restoration project TPWD paid for is being wiped out in less than a week?


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## Bocephus (May 30, 2008)

There's a lot more than you understand little buddy....LMAO. You might need to look a little closer.


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

90%+ of any reef is dead shell. The mature oysters are harvested the dead shell pushed back over the side for next years spat.

They have been harvesting oysters on the same reefs for over 100 years. As long as the dead shell is pushed back over the reef will not be "wiped out". As long as the reef is not "covered up" by sedimentation oysters will be back when the conditions get right.

West Galveston Bay has been harvested and harvested year after year. Sometimes during drought years there are no live oysters. Add fresh water and they can go from spat to a legal oyster in less than a year.


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## Feathershredder (Nov 29, 2009)

So I guess the consensus is that the oyster beds are inexhaustible regardless of the amount of pressure put on them? I hope you guys are right.


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## Bocephus (May 30, 2008)

Feathershredder said:


> So I guess the consensus is that the oyster beds are inexhaustible regardless of the amount of pressure put on them? I hope you guys are right.


Been eating Galveston Bay Oysters all my life...and generations ahead of me did too.

:headknock


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## gater (May 25, 2004)

*Beds*



Feathershredder said:


> So I guess the consensus is that the oyster beds are inexhaustible regardless of the amount of pressure put on them? I hope you guys are right.


Of course they are. They will be back, not next week but they will be back. 
The base that the TPWD put down is still there, all that river rock is where the new oysters will grow.

After Ike many of the beds in east bay were covered in silt. Oysters won't grow on silt so the TPWD did the same thing by dumping rock to give the oysters something to attach to and start a new reef


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## Feathershredder (Nov 29, 2009)

I hope to continue eating them as well for many years. But the footage in that video does not look good for the future to me. Why would 106 boats oyster that close to one another (like they are in a race) if there was enough oysters out there for them all to harvest?


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## Kenner 23 (Sep 14, 2009)

Its Catchy said:


> 90%+ of any reef is dead shell. The mature oysters are harvested the dead shell pushed back over the side for next years spat.
> 
> They have been harvesting oysters on the same reefs for over 100 years. As long as the dead shell is pushed back over the reef will not be "wiped out". As long as the reef is not "covered up" by sedimentation oysters will be back when the conditions get right.
> 
> West Galveston Bay has been harvested and harvested year after year. Sometimes during drought years there are no live oysters. Add fresh water and they can go from spat to a legal oyster in less than a year.


Takes an average of three years for oysters to grow to marketable size.
What y'all don't understand is they aren't pulling anything back on to the reef when they are done. Tonging did leave the reefs intack but dredging spreads the reefs and sediment eventually covers what's left.


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## lurker (Feb 26, 2015)

Feathershredder said:


> how am I like dumb an dumber for pointing out that a PUBLIC reef restoration project TPWD paid for is being wiped out in less than a week?


You've got it all wrong.

The amazing thing isn't that there are any reefs left, it's that we ever had any reefs for tens of thousands of years before these boats showed up to build them.


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## Smith point (Nov 25, 2012)

For those of you who think this process is normal and healthy for the reefs, bays and estuaries stay tuned for part II of "Exploitation of South Dollar Reef." I think you will be proven wrong! There is a difference between SUSTAINABLE Harvest and OVER harvest which depletes the cultch and resources needed for the reef to replenish itself naturally.


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## Crusader (Jan 31, 2014)

Feathershredder said:


> So I guess the consensus is that the oyster beds are inexhaustible regardless of the amount of pressure put on them? I hope you guys are right.


Dude, seriously... read that effing pdf file


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## Smackdaddy53 (Nov 4, 2011)

I have seen reefs dragged flat in East Matagorda Bay. Reefs I marked and went back a week later and they were gone.


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## kenny (May 21, 2004)

Caranchua reef was oystered out by the early '80's by constant over harvesting.


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> I have seen reefs dragged flat in East Matagorda Bay. Reefs I marked and went back a week later and they were gone.


I commercially oystered in East Matagorda bay at one time or another since I was a kid in the 1970's. I have never, ever seen a a reef wiped out. I can go back year after year to the same reefs. Sometimes they are void of any living oysters but the base is still there.


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

Feathershredder said:


> I hope to continue eating them as well for many years. But the footage in that video does not look good for the future to me. Why would 106 boats oyster that close to one another (like they are in a race) if there was enough oysters out there for them all to harvest?


Al Gore's "An Inconvenient Truth" is more realistic. Any time someone comes on here and uses words like "wiped out" or "raped" a just shake my head.

You have to keep in mind that only a small amount of the total number of the reefs in any given bay system is "open" to oystering. The vast majority are in closed water and have remained virtually untouched for years and years.

If you think oysters don't grow fast in the right conditions leave your boat in the water for one year. Then look at the bottom. If you don't want to do that just do down to any boatyard where they dry dock boats and look at how big an oyster can get growing on the hulls of boats in one year.


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## Wado (May 15, 2011)

The sad thing is guys like me and a bunch of my buddies caused some of this. Our deck hands figured if old Panzo'n could do it they could do it better, if somebody would just finance a boat for us. Educated them we did. And with the plotters and GPS now a caveman could do it. I guess I shouldn't put a caveman in the same category, I apologize.


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## BullyARed (Jun 19, 2010)

The new species, the oyster bed huggers!


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## Bocephus (May 30, 2008)

#oysterlivesmatter


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## schoalbeast101 (Oct 23, 2014)

No one is absolutely right or wrong with their opinions on here so calling people people dumb is pretty childish and unproductive. Fishing in the Galveston bay area couldn't be much better. Back on topic though the last few years haven't been kind to the oysters on the upper coast. The drought caused Oyster drill and now the deluge of fresh water isn't doing the regrowth any favors. To start Hurricane Ike did take it toll. I have a question? If Oysters were the business why weren't all the of reefs dregded of sand and sentiment to keep the reefs alive? Just curious? Also I see all sides of the argument. People make a living off the Oysters and fishermen use the reefs as they are structure attracks bait and predators. One point though, with the removal of all the well heads in Trinity Bay isn't there enough Oyster reefs for everyone now? My opinion is that we are on a down turn in the cycle for new Oyster growth but that will change in the future with improved conditions. I don't like seeing a ton of Oyster boats on the reefs either but it has been going on for a long time and will continue to happen. Is there some way we can all come together for everyone's common sense benefit?


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## troutsupport (May 22, 2006)

Props to Bocephus, It's Catchy, Schoalbest, and Gator for good information. 

My intent with the following is to support us all moving forward constructively. I certainly don't mean to be argumentative to anyones viewpoint, only fill you in on what I've actually seen on the bay floor very recently.

While oyster raking practices do damage a reef, the undersized oysters (less than 3 inches and any dead oyster substrate, albeit oyster shell or rock is returned to the bottom). As far as raking completely wiping out a reef...it's impossible. Why? Those rakes are only ~3 ' wide and the reefs are 100's of acres wide; raking occurs in random circles it's not like strip mining where they can actually see what they are doing). I've visited newly raked reefs with high high pressure and there is absolutely some area of completely untouched oyster (even harvestable legal oyster is missed). The oyster that is pushed out the side of the rake before it is pulled to the surface is piled up a little and that also helps / elevates the substrate for more attachment from spat (oyster larva from spawning that occurs daily from Spring - Fall). I've side scanned this in a large part of all of Galveston Bay Estuary and many times the elevated shell from the raking is what survives because it is brought up above the bottom sediment high enough to get a good cleaning water flow daily from the tide. 

The drought over the last 6-8 years is actually is the larger culprit that 'wiped' out many many reefs. STORM is correct in that approximately 90% of the oyster of yesterday (including both natural and leased beds) is devoid of live oyster. This was mostly due to encroachment of the oysters predators that live in higher salinities. When the drought allowed the salinity in the Galveston estuary to remain elevated OVER 22 Mean Salinity Units (Sea Water is nearly 32MSU and fresh is 0 MSU) for almost the entire bay system all the way to nearly the 146 bridge, over an extended period of nearly 6 years, it allowed the predators to range far and wide to eat and devastate the reefs. 

The predators (that normally live in the gulf and can't tolerate salinities less than 20 -22 MSU) dissolve a hole in an oyster with sulfuric acid and enzymes with their proboscis (tongues). Then they eat the oyster leaving a shell that will self destruct as the oysters shell is no longer replenished from within. The calcium leaches out and the shell turns to tiny fragments we refer to as 'Hash'... like what's left on the top of Hannah Reef and Shell Island Reef and Carancahua Reef etc. This is what has completely wiped out some reefs. For most of us it occurred like there was reef one day and it was gone the next. But is was a process that occurred over time. In some areas the only good substratewas what was returned to the bay floor by either TPWD public reefs or STORM or other leassees. Still the predators continued to predate on even the oyster that formed on the restoration and leased substrate. 

Other problems for oysters is sediment load and the lack of tidal current due to our creating man made channels and the shipping and barge lanes. First, sediment load. For many reasons we are far from the pre industrial era as for land disturbance from multiple different sources. There is a much increased sediment load in todays times even with point source sediment discharge being somewhat managed by the state and federal permit system. Is it effective?...who knows. What we know is that there is an increased load today compared to pre industrial times. 

What about reef damage from Ike. Ike raised a lot of sediment over some reefs for multiple different reasons when it came on shore, from water flow to wave agitation or a combination. When the storm surge flowed back out to the Gulf it happened very fast and that ripping current took large sections of reef and ripped it apart as well as buried others in sediment. Why wasn't the sediment removed. It was be to difficult and too costly. The only equipment large enough to tackle the job was dredging type equipment and that probably would have damaged the oyster just as much, and it would be sorta like asking the bull to put the china up. Smaller devices wouldn't get the sediment removed fast enough or cover enough ground. In the end, even if the sediment was removed all that would have been left was dead oyster since it was buried so long. So the only answer to that was to drop new cultch.. which would have been less expensive than removing the sediment and would produce a better result leaving the cultch clean for spat attachment. 

What about shipping and barge lanes and oil exploration cuts? Those all to some extent have changed the tidal flow (namely velocity of tide moving over reef and the overall area that sufficient water movement occurs. That lack of water movement sufficient to wash the sediment load from the oyster beds has buried much of the oyster that were not getting sufficient water movement. Now, no one is going to change earth disturbance or shipping lanes in the near term, and they are going to remain there so that's a mute point. The oysters have adjusted to that and where conditions were favorable and the reefs could grow then the reefs enlarged in those area and decreased in areas that did not have the right conditions. With the drought, even the reefs that were in the right conditions with respect to current flow were also hit very hard by the predators and left only the historic hard substrate (a calcium cemented mass) in some areas leaving only a bald top. Over time with our much reduced salinities any hard substrate from very dense clay to clean historic oyster reef substrate will be repopulated as spat washes back and forth with the tide. It will take time but while it may take 3 years for a reef to have a harvestable legal oyster, new spat formation and oyster growth can form within 3 months (personal conversation with the late Dr. Sammy Ray.) 

So what now? This conversation about the new oyster leases is really a legal one over the discussion of who manages what I believe. I could be al together wrong on that, it's been a while since I've revisited the news articles. 

Should all the bay reefs be leased, should all the publicly funded reefs remain unharvested? What about the little guy that can't afford his own lease and has relied on natural reefs for his existence? i don't believe there is one right answer. 

I can only tell you from what I've seen on the bay floor. It's appears that the leases that are managed continue year over year to have more consistent production and substrate (you should hear this as more consistent fishing as well). 

Hope this information helps everyone understand, and gives us all a better basis to postulate ideas on what to do. I have some ideas how it could be handled, but my opinion on how it should be handled doesn't matter. Call your state, local government, and tell them what you think and hopefully it will all get sorted out sooner than later. Right now it's sorta just held up in court as far as I know. 


T


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## schoalbeast101 (Oct 23, 2014)

Thanks Tobin!


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

schoalbeast101 said:


> No one is absolutely right or wrong with their opinions on here so calling people people dumb is pretty childish and unproductive. Fishing in the Galveston bay area couldn't be much better. Back on topic though the last few years haven't been kind to the oysters on the upper coast. The drought caused Oyster drill and now the deluge of fresh water isn't doing the regrowth any favors. To start Hurricane Ike did take it toll. I have a question? If Oysters were the business why weren't all the of reefs dregded of sand and sentiment to keep the reefs alive? Just curious? Also I see all sides of the argument. People make a living off the Oysters and fishermen use the reefs as they are structure attracks bait and predators. One point though, with the removal of all the well heads in Trinity Bay isn't there enough Oyster reefs for everyone now? My opinion is that we are on a down turn in the cycle for new Oyster growth but that will change in the future with improved conditions. I don't like seeing a ton of Oyster boats on the reefs either but it has been going on for a long time and will continue to happen. Is there some way we can all come together for everyone's common sense benefit?


TPWD actually worked with commercial oyster fishermen after Ike to do just that. Pull their dredges over reef in East Bay to till up the dead shell and give new spat a base to grow on.

The bad news is the ongoing drought curtailed new growth and predators and disease have taken it's toll.

The good news is the recent runoff from a very wet 2015 should bring a good rebound to oyster, crab and shrimp populations in upcoming years.


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## pocjetty (Sep 12, 2014)

troutsupport said:


> Props to Bocephus, It's Catchy, Schoalbest, and Gator for good information.
> 
> T


With respect, that's not the only good information. It's probably worth taking some time to look at what happened to Chesapeake Bay. (The Native Americans called it "great shellfish bay".) In the 70's they harvested over 15 million bushels a year there. By 1996, they took about 30 THOUSAND bushels. There were several factors, but it is widely accepted that over-harvesting was a major factor in reducing the population to unsustainable levels.

I don't think anyone was suggesting that oyster boats remove every single live oyster from a reef, so the point about finding live ones is sort of a red herring. There were keeper fish in the bays, following the big freeze in 1983, but you don't doubt that recreational limits had to be reduced to get the fish populations back on their feet, do you?

The fact is, a single oyster can filter as much as 50 gallons of water per day. It's sort of a no-brainer that they are good for the overall health of the bay, and that a lot of reef structure is better for the bay than a small amount.

Some people argue that the oysters in Chesapeake Bay have recovered. How did they do it? Some scientist developed a mutant triploid (three chromosomes) oyster that grows fast, but doesn't reproduce. So they have to seed mutant GMO oysters every year. That's not exactly a recovery. And even at that they are now harvesting 900,000 bushels per year - compared to over 15 Million in the 70's. That says the population is about 6% of what it used to be, and it took almost 20 years to get it that far.

So, please don't try to sell the idea that everything is fine, and we don't really have to worry about the oysters. Yes, the prolonged drought affected them. But when a population is already reduced from natural causes, it's even MORE important to control harvesting. Just like the we controlled the harvest of gamefish after the big freeze. Remember?

Here's the big thing: I'm not anti-commercial fishing. I don't dislike them, or blame them. Just like you're not anti-fishing when you suggest tighter bag limits, and CPR. It's not about blame. But when you see 15 boats converge on one little section of reef for a week, it's not hard to figure out that they have just done damage that will take a couple of seasons, at least, to recover from. The math just isn't that hard.

One last thing - it's important to understand just how many people are living on and visiting our bays, compared to 30 years ago. Add to that the drastic increase in industrial activity. With the increase in "stuff" being dumped into our bays, not to mention the additional fishing pressure, it just seems reasonable that the bays could use more filtration from oyster reefs, and not less.


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## bigfishtx (Jul 17, 2007)

Man I learned a lot reading this. Thanks guys, good stuff.


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## Drundel (Feb 6, 2006)

So short term question, how is the trout fishing going to be in the area since the reef has been harvested?


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## FREON (Jun 14, 2005)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> I have seen reefs dragged flat in East Matagorda Bay. Reefs I marked and went back a week later and they were gone.


:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: That is total bull poop per the commercial guys I spoke with. They said that you don't wipe out a reef dredging it...


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## Bocephus (May 30, 2008)

FREON said:


> :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: That is total bull **** per the commercial guys I spoke with. They said that you don't wipe out a reef dredging it...


If the fishing God says it's true, how dare you question him !!!!


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## FREON (Jun 14, 2005)

Bocephus said:


> If the fishing God says it's true, how dare you question him !!!!


I hear you but since I am not that knowledgeable on the subject, I queried a few that are and that was their response....I actually paraphrased what they said because they said whoever stated that dredging would wipe out a reef was full of feces.


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

pocjetty,

The oysters in Chesapeake Bay are not "Genetically Modified" or GMO. They are the result of taking advantage of a naturally occurring trait or selective breeding which man has been doing with crops for at least 10,000 years.

http://darc.cms.udel.edu/ibsa/VIMS Triploid oyster flyer.pdf

The recovery in the Chesapeake has been largely due to management changes and large scale efforts to plant substrate for spat to grow on. They have large recycling programs where the shells are collected from restaurants and processors and returned to the reef to provide surface area for future growth.

Texas now has a limited entry program in place, we have programs that are helping to restore many of the reefs covered by storms. Securing minimum freshwater releases from dams up rivers would go along way towards the recovery of our bays in general.

Personally, I think we need to look to the private sector for answers as well. No new oyster leases have been awarded in decades. If a private company is going to go through the trouble of building a reef where none now exist we should give them incentives to do so.

It would create jobs, take pressure off public reef and help the overall health of the bay. However, getting the bureaucrats to do anything "constructive" is almost impossible.


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## Im Headed South (Jun 28, 2006)

FREON said:


> :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: That is total bull poop per the commercial guys I spoke with. They said that you don't wipe out a reef dredging it...


Well they wouldn't have any reason to lie now would they , one of the largest oyster fisherman/suppliers in the middle coast told me and TPWD officials his recommendation would be to shut the whole fishery down to commercial harvest for 2 years for a recovery period. The middle coast has been hammered due boats moving in from the upper coast since Ike and when you throw in the prolonged drought he contends the oyster fishery in the middle coast is on the verge of collapse. Next time you see a Game Warden ask him about what they're seeing out on the water, sacks and sacks with too many undersize oysters in them. If their catching that many it's not hard to figure out the amount that slip through unchecked given the lack of enforcement personal available along the coast.


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## Im Headed South (Jun 28, 2006)

Its Catchy said:


> pocjetty,
> 
> The oysters in Chesapeake Bay are not "Genetically Modified" or GMO. They are the result of taking advantage of a naturally occurring trait or selective breeding which man has been doing with crops for at least 10,000 years.
> 
> ...


 The leases TPWD awarded years ago are about up and will be coming up for renewal, there is chance that the private lease program gets expanded beyond the Galveston Bay complex. TPWD is exploring the possibility of expansion and it will probably be reaching the scoping stage for public comment later in the year. Lots of attention being paid to the oyster fishery in Austin this year.


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

Im Headed South said:


> The leases TPWD awarded years ago are about up and will be coming up for renewal, there is chance that the private lease program gets expanded beyond the Galveston Bay complex. TPWD is exploring the possibility of expansion and it will probably be reaching the scoping stage for public comment later in the year. Lots of attention being paid to the oyster fishery in Austin this year.


It's a "no brainer" for just about every user group. Jobs created, reef created, and a healthier bay.

Texas is well behind the 8 Ball when it comes to awarding private oyster leases.


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

But who needs a private oyster lease when you have a "secret honey hole" that is in legal water and untouched by all but a select few.

I tonged these "cow tongues" up a few weeks ago.

I have actually had commercial oyster men offer me money for my top secret spot, but it's worth more to me as a secret.


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## Im Headed South (Jun 28, 2006)

Its Catchy said:


> It's a "no brainer" for just about every user group. Jobs created, reef created, and a healthier bay.
> 
> Texas is well behind the 8 Ball when it comes to awarding private oyster leases.


Well there a number of current operators who would probably disagree with you lol, they got a pretty good thing going right now with dredging the hell out of public reefs for a pretty small license fee and sack tax. No brainer for the ones with some fore sight to see what's going to best in the long run.


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

Im Headed South said:


> Well there a number of current operators who would probably disagree with you lol, they got a pretty good thing going right now with dredging the hell out of public reefs for a pretty small license fee and sack tax. No brainer for the ones with some fore sight to see what's going to best in the long run.


I don't know any of the current operators who would disagree with me. Private reefs are a good thing. It has nothing at all to do with the harvesting of public reef which is a good thing as long as it is sustainable.


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## troutsupport (May 22, 2006)

pocjetty said:


> So, please don't try to sell the idea that everything is fine, and we don't really have to worry about the oysters. Yes, the prolonged drought affected them. But when a population is already reduced from natural causes, it's even MORE important to control harvesting.


Totally respect what you're putting here and you're right, the oysters do great for the entire bay and for many resources that use the bay. I'm certainly not proposing the oysters are good on their own. Just clearing up that commercial fishing isn't the only cause of the degradation. The biggest cause of the degradation that I've seen first hand was the drought.

What's the answer? control harvest or more reef. I think we could all agree that more reef would would a big help and a lot of commercial harvesters are willing to build that and it takes huge amount of money. I would love to see some public reefs that don't get touched either.. they are pretty cool looking when not touched and make much a better fishing habitat.

The pressure we're seeing on the reefs right now isn't because the oyster guys are greedy...it's because there is only 10% or less of any remaining oysters left after the drought that killed 90% of the reef in Galveston bay. The state is allowing it to try to help these boys sustain their business, keep losses down, and just survive in the short term. Stopping them from doing it would be like "Ok which you would like to volunteer to go out of business?" Its a public resource and they are trying to help all users and still have oyster beds remain that will replenish when conditions improve.



pocjetty said:


> One last thing - it's important to understand just how many people are living on and visiting our bays, compared to 30 years ago. Add to that the drastic increase in industrial activity. With the increase in "stuff" being dumped into our bays, not to mention the additional fishing pressure, it just seems reasonable that the bays could use more filtration from oyster reefs, and not less.


Totally agree. I wish the courts would hurry up and decide so the leasees could get on there way creating reef.


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## troutsupport (May 22, 2006)

Drundel said:


> So short term question, how is the trout fishing going to be in the area since the reef has been harvested?


It will be fine as soon as the boats leave for long enough to allow the fish to come back over the reef. We've seen areas where new cultch was dropped and within days there were trout hanging out around it even after dropping tons of rock making a big commotion. Now dropping rock is different from reef raking but after they leave they'll be sufficient rock and cultch to hold some fish after it quiets down. we've even caught trout with oyster boats working 50 yards away. They get used to it to some respect beaches they live there everyday, just part of there life now. I don't know, maybe they're ****** off too, maybe that's what all the little bubbles are on the bay ;-) but they keep going back.


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## BullyARed (Jun 19, 2010)

Its Catchy said:


> But who needs a private oyster lease when you have a "secret honey hole" that is in legal water and untouched by all but a select few.
> 
> I tonged these "cow tongues" up a few weeks ago.
> 
> I have actually had commercial oyster men offer me money for my top secret spot, but it's worth more to me as a secret.


 Nationwide is on your side! Oysters are tasting good!


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## Wado (May 15, 2011)

*The Apacolypse*



Feathershredder said:


>


Bring your drone and camera, they are headed my way. Every inch of dock space was rented up today. One of my friends I am doing some work for on one of his gulf boats has some dock space, I should say had. His cell phone was about to go up in flames from buyers looking for space. This might get interesting when some of the locals get their feathers rustled up.


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## pocjetty (Sep 12, 2014)

troutsupport said:


> Totally respect what you're putting here and you're right, the oysters do great for the entire bay and for many resources that use the bay. I'm certainly not proposing the oysters are good on their own. Just clearing up that commercial fishing isn't the only cause of the degradation. The biggest cause of the degradation that I've seen first hand was the drought.
> 
> What's the answer? control harvest or more reef. I think we could all agree that more reef would would a big help and a lot of commercial harvesters are willing to build that and it takes huge amount of money. I would love to see some public reefs that don't get touched either.. they are pretty cool looking when not touched and make much a better fishing habitat.
> 
> ...


It's a tough situation. And it's more than unfair that any part of it should impact hard-working people who have made their living that way all their lives - or even families who have done it for generations. I don't have as much sympathy for the giant seafood wholesalers, but I feel for the people who are actually doing the work of catching/harvesting the seafood.

But there's one more lesson from Chesapeake Bay that I think everyone here should be concerned about:

One of the big contributors to oyster decline in Chesapeake Bay was disease. But even that is related to over-harvesting.

When the oyster population was drastically reduced, people began noticing that the water quality suffered. It makes sense, since they do so much filtering of the water. The bigger problem is that less-clean water also allows pathogens to flourish.

So you reduce the oyster population, the water quality goes to hell, and the remaining oysters wind up falling prey to disease - which further reduces the oyster population. That's how populations collapse.

I'm not saying that's happening here - I don't know. But I am saying that it is very, very possible to over-harvest oysters, and the consequence is dire. And none of the arguments I hear give any recognition to the fact that oysters are more than a "resource" - they are a big part of the filter system for our bays. My personal belief is that the bays need more reef structure now, but we are managing to a lesser standard.

If it goes the way of Chesapeake Bay, all those commercial fishermen will be in much worse shape than they are right now.


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## pocjetty (Sep 12, 2014)

I should probably have mentioned - the group of oyster boats I'm talking about are, I believe, all Mexican nationals. I'm not anti-immigrant, and I'm sure not anti-Mexican. But I think there's a time when you have to take care of your own. I just think people (like ItsCatchy) whose families have been in the business for decades, should be able to make a living fishing Texas waters before we invite people from other countries to come here and make their living fishing Texas waters. I don't, in any way, think that they are "greedy" for wanting to earn a living fishing. I also don't want it to reach the point that nobody can make a living on the water.


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## pokitbusa (Jan 7, 2010)

*Oysters*

What I don't undersTand is why don't they set a limit on oysters like they do on fish. An oyster takes a long time to become legal size. In the seventies boats could get 100 sacks before noon. Now you can't because they are being fished out. Need a limit


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## Im Headed South (Jun 28, 2006)

There is a daily boat limit along with a size limit, problem is enforcement agents are to spread out to enforce the limits. The State has Game Wardens patrolling the border doing the Feds job while commercial boats go unchecked day after day, when they are checked the number of bags that exceed the allowable limit of undersized oysters is very high. For every bag that gets checked there are hundreds that slip through to the buyers, not sure what the fine is for the ones that get caught but it must not be much and I've had wardens tell me that even if they write a ticket it's up to the local JP's to prosecute and in some jurisdictions the good ol boy network is still the lay of the land and tickets seem to disappear regularly for some guys.


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

The Buyers typically regulate the boats. Too many small ones or dead shell and the oysters won't yield a 1/2 gallon per sack when shucked. 

It's all about yield. 

If your oysters do not "yield" and you have to many small oysters or dead shell in the sacks you not only have to worry about the Gamewarden's. The buyers will run you off.

So much of the oyster industry is self policing.


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## Kenner 23 (Sep 14, 2009)

pokitbusa said:


> What I don't undersTand is why don't they set a limit on oysters like they do on fish. An oyster takes a long time to become legal size. In the seventies boats could get 100 sacks before noon. Now you can't because they are being fished out. Need a limit


There is a limit but the reward is greater than the risk and wholesalers look the other way since audits on their trip tickets rarely happen. The state needs to audit wholesalers and issue confiscatory fines and then they would self correct over harvest by the fishermen. If they can't sell them they won't harvest them. Shut them down like they did Al Capone.


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## BullyARed (Jun 19, 2010)

pokitbusa said:


> What I don't undersTand is why don't they set a limit on oysters like they do on fish. An oyster takes a long time to become legal size. In the seventies boats could get 100 sacks before noon. Now you can't because they are being fished out. Need a limit


 The limit of one has been imposed on men for a long time and many just broke it!


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

pokitbusa said:


> What I don't undersTand is why don't they set a limit on oysters like they do on fish. An oyster takes a long time to become legal size. In the seventies boats could get 100 sacks before noon. Now you can't because they are being fished out. Need a limit


In the right conditions oysters can grow from spat to legal size in one year to 18 months. In December of 1988 just about every living oyster was killed in East Matagorda Bay due to the killer freeze that year.

On November 1st of 1990 the bay was absolutely full of beautiful medium sized oysters.


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## danthrc (Jun 19, 2007)

Interesting reading for sure. I learned a lot about an oyster today.


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## Smith point (Nov 25, 2012)

As promised here is "PART II - The Problems."


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## Wado (May 15, 2011)

Its Catchy said:


> In the right conditions oysters can grow from spat to legal size in one year to 18 months. In December of 1988 just about every living oyster was killed in East Matagorda Bay due to the killer freeze that year.
> 
> On November 1st of 1990 the bay was absolutely full of beautiful medium sized oysters.


If I remember correctly it was around 1990 I went to Galveston on the Faye B and was a deckhand for about two weeks right before Christmas. The pipeline was fixing to open in Galveston Bay and we went there to get in on the big lick. Made me two weeks and got a pocket full of money then I jumped on the Amy Lynn and we hit the new pipeline in East Matagorda Bay that runs north and south to the white tanks across the Intracoastal Canal just east of Matagorda. I didn't care for sleeping at Milt's on the boat and going to the nasty showers. That and only one place to eat at Bolivar and you better get there early. Both reefs lasted about two weeks, there were literally hundreds of boats from everywhere. The pipeline in East Matagorda played out and turned to white shell in about ten days. We started catching sour oysters after that, you know what those are don't you? Happens when a reef is beat to death to put it in layman's terms. Get a lot of dead and dying oysters and rotten bottom and sour oysters will kill a market. We took the boat around to Palacios in a screaming norther and tried it around there a few days. There was a good scratch just about on any of the reefs there but nothing like what we came from. It wasn't even two weeks when boats showed up and I mean a fleet. They were moving down the coast away from Galveston. My captain of all things went to Galveston, I said adios and then my crazy old man went also. I think he took his license and put it on a lugger and away they went. He was back in less than a week and we waited until the fleet cleared out and started working shallow reefs, I'm talking about where the top of the dredge sticks out of the water and you can see it fill up. I wasn't about to show my hole cards with this gang around, like your top secret honey hole. And that's how it all ends, the deep reefs get hit then the shallow ones. You are right I have to admit about one thing, with closed areas we at least have breeding stock and now they are fighting over control of closed waters. Don't that beat all? 
Back when you were 21 years old and before then the dam limit should have been 50 or 40 maybe we would have gotten more than eight and less dollars a sack for the defenseless creatures. Nobody monitored the condition of the reefs so how would they know any over fishing was taking place. They should have known something was up when over twenty eighteen wheelers smoked it out of our little fishing village every night for weeks. I was boarded by game wardens twice in my oystering years, they could have got on my boat any day I didn't care. Some of the boats, I can't say names threw the entire reef, some weren't even culled. I got boarded by the Coast Guard more times, heck I even took the Health Department guys riding around and took meat samples. Instead of all these research biologists we had camped out here in Palacios and all over the coast should have been doing more dredge samples instead of palpating redfish and driving back and forth to Austin to smooch up to you know who maybe, just maybe we would have healthier reefs. Now it's a disaster, wow. Never saw that coming. Just talking about oystering puts a bucket of grassburr's in my drawers, do you get that feeling? Another thing I just loved was going to my boat and there was a note nailed to my cabin door, it would say something like " Check the list at the ice plant, if you aren't on the list don't go out. " Why do you reckon our buyer would do something like that? I am not the only x fisherman that feels like I do, some have a way more negative attitude than I do. I did an interview with some graduate students from The University Of Alabama Mobile about laws imposed on us and general things that the fishery and the environment had endured, it was later than 1990, sorry I don't recall the year. One of the questions was did I dream about shrimping and oystering. I said I sure do, but they may really be nightmares if you saw some of them. Could have heard a pin drop. I did another one with a University somewhere in Washington State about the dumping of imports into the US. I told them it was a blessing because it caused me to wake up and see the light, I was like the donut man that keeps meeting himself leaving his house and coming home. I got blessed and sold my boat and all my gear. I still have dreams, but they aren't nightmares any more.


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## Smith point (Nov 25, 2012)

*Updated link!*


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## Wado (May 15, 2011)

This mess just made me think of Diane Wilson.


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

Since we are posting fiction. I thought I would post something from the same mold but just as scary!


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

I am wondering if Justin Woody, the "concerned citizen" who made that you tube video is related to the Woody who is trying to steal 23,000 acres of Galveston Bay under the acronym STORM?

This from Wayne Dolcefino's website:
Getting paid to do nothinâ€™
Published December 3, 2015
Tracy Woody has been in court a lot lately.

The Chambers County Justice of the Peace has been trying, and failing, to find a judge who will let him and his daddy-in-law take control of half the oyster crop in Galveston Bay. Woody got a lease from the Chambers-Liberty County Navigation District for his company STORM, but it doesnâ€™t seem to be worth the paper it is written on, and plenty of taxpayerâ€™s money is now being wasted on legal bills trying to educate officials in Anahuac about the law.

The State of Texas was forced to sue Woodyâ€™s company Sustainable Texas Oyster Resource Management (STORM), LLC, and District Judge Lonnie Cox in Galveston has stopped Woodyâ€™s company from interfering with other oyster fisherman.

Speaking of wasting moneyâ€¦Who is paying Woody while he spends his day engineering his oyster takeover dreams in the bay?

You, the taxpayers of Chambers County.

Woody is a Justice of the Peace in Chambers County, Precinct 3. Chambers County taxpayers pay him $45,000 a year to handle criminal and civil cases. His courtroom is in the historic Pine Island Courthouse, the one that was renovated with tens of thousands of dollars in federal money after Hurricane Ike.

Based on records released this week the courthouse is collecting dust, and Tracy Woody may have the best government job in Texas. He gets paid as a Judge, who doesnâ€™t Judge anything.

The Chambers County Attorneyâ€™s office confirms Woody has not held a single court hearing in 2015, which is just about over. ZERO.

In 2014, just six hearings were held. Letâ€™s do the math.

Tracy Woody is being paid $1,875.00 dollars an hour. Your money.


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## Im Headed South (Jun 28, 2006)

Remind us again who is paying for Wayne Dolcefino to be so concerned?


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

Wayne Dolcefino is being paid for by everyone that is going to be effected if STORM is allowed to privatize 23,000 acres of bay bottom without so much a one competing bid.

It's a good thing a higher court blocked that nonsense.


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## Im Headed South (Jun 28, 2006)

Its Catchy said:


> Wayne Dolcefino is being paid for by everyone that is going to be effected if STORM is allowed to privatize 23,000 acres of bay bottom without so much a one competing bid.
> 
> It's a good thing a higher court blocked that nonsense.


By everyone you mean Prestige Oyster, the largest commercial oyster buyer/distributor/boat fleet owner and the one bringing in all the nationals that are working over the reef in the video. Not going down the same old road with same arguments with you, hopefully the State steps up and does what's best for the resource, in the end that's what most of us want. I say most because folks like Prestige don't seemed to be to worried about the future of the bays, their more about the money today.


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## 3192 (Dec 30, 2004)

*'slam dunk!'*



Im Headed South said:


> By everyone you mean Prestige Oyster, the largest commercial oyster buyer/distributor/boat fleet owner and the one bringing in all the nationals that are working over the reef in the video. Not going down the same old road with same arguments with you, hopefully the State steps up and does what's best for the resource, in the end that's what most of us want. I say most because folks like Prestige don't seemed to be to worried about the future of the bays, their more about the money today.


Im Headed South.....
Very well said and a big thank you! galvbay


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## Smith point (Nov 25, 2012)

Its Catchy said:


> I am wondering if Justin Woody, the "concerned citizen" who made that you tube video is related to the Woody who is trying to steal 23,000 acres of Galveston Bay under the acronym STORM?
> 
> This from Wayne Dolcefino's website:
> Getting paid to do nothinâ€™
> ...


Good job Sherlock! We have nothing to hide that's is why every video ends with
Sustainable Texas Oyster Resource Management and my name is located below the video for everyone to see. By the way show me or explain to me what part of any of this is fiction?


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## Crusader (Jan 31, 2014)

Sigh...


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## chumy (Jul 13, 2012)

Its Catchy said:


> The Buyers typically regulate the boats. Too many small ones or dead shell and the oysters won't yield a 1/2 gallon per sack when shucked.
> 
> It's all about yield.
> 
> ...


So I guess the commercial guys don't have to adhere to these regs?

Oysters 3/4 inch to 3 inches and dead oyster shell > 3/4 inch (measured along any axis) must be culled and returned to the reef from which taken.
Oysters 3/4 inch to 3 inches and dead oyster shell > 3/4 inch may not make up more than 15% by number of oysters in possession.


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

Im Headed South said:


> Remind us again who is paying for Wayne Dolcefino to be so concerned?


Prestige Oyster, Hillman's, Misho's and just about every commercial oyster fisherman in the bay who does not want to see 23,000 acres of public bay bottom "given" away to a private company.


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

chumy said:


> So I guess the commercial guys don't have to adhere to these regs?
> 
> Oysters 3/4 inch to 3 inches and dead oyster shell > 3/4 inch (measured along any axis) must be culled and returned to the reef from which taken.
> Oysters 3/4 inch to 3 inches and dead oyster shell > 3/4 inch may not make up more than 15% by number of oysters in possession.


Of coarse they do or face heavy fines. In addition to the heavy fines the buyers don't want that **** either.


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## pocjetty (Sep 12, 2014)

Its Catchy said:


> Prestige Oyster, Hillman's, Misho's and just about every commercial oyster fisherman in the bay who does not want to see 23,000 acres of public bay bottom "given" away to a private company.


Here's the problem I have with this comment, and a lot of the comments you make on commercial fishing. It's all about who gets the money.

I don't give a **** about that. I'm convinced that our reefs are vital to the health (survival) of our bays. And I'm just as convinced that they are already pushed to the limit, and the pace of the decline isn't being slowed down.

You claim that oysters can grow to maturity in 18 months "in ideal conditions". The problem with that is that virtually everyone agrees that we don't have ideal conditions, and haven't for many years. So even if your claim is absolutely true, it's also absolutely meaningless in our current situation. You can't ignore the second half of the equation.

You tend to talk circles around an argument. But the one thing you can't escape is that something has to give. If you want to point out who should shoulder the burden, I'm willing to listen. But something has to give, or we run the risk of doing generational damage to these bays.


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

pocjetty,

I am 100% for a private industry solution to the oyster fishery. There should be private leases awarded in every major bay that can support it.

This will alleviate the pressure on public reef, create jobs and help the bays overall health.


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## pocjetty (Sep 12, 2014)

Its Catchy said:


> pocjetty,
> 
> I am 100% for a private industry solution to the oyster fishery. There should be private leases awarded in every major bay that can support it.
> 
> This will alleviate the pressure on public reef, create jobs and help the bays overall health.


Fair enough. If it will really take pressure off the natural reef structure, and not create disease problems (like a lot of other mariculture, I'm all for it. I would hate to see fishermen effectively becoming indentured servants to a lease-holder, or a few giant buyer/wholesalers. But I would hate it even more if our reef systems collapsed in a similar way to Chesapeake Bay. If that happens, we all lose. And it's a very real possibility.

With so many people who stand to make money on the deal, it's hard for people like me to know what is real and what is a sales pitch. These days, I can get a "study" that says whatever I want, as long as I can pay enough for it. But I know enough to occasionally recognize when there's a gap between theory and reality.


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## Smith point (Nov 25, 2012)

The point of these videos is to inform and raise awareness of the issues facing our bays. I appreciate your support for mitigating the problems we are all facing concerning oysters, even if you donâ€™t support the folks here at STORM. Oysters are a vital part of our estuaries and essential for a healthy bay. They are deep rooted in traditions from the recreational fisherman to the multi-generational families who have earned their living on the water, such as ours and most likely yours. STORM is not trying to deny any person the right to PUBLIC fishing grounds. We are being PROACTIVE in securing not only our future as a family business but also the future of every individual utilizing the Texas waters, whether it be for habitat, recreation or commercial purposes. 

This is the very reason STORM leased private property from CLCND to grow and cultivate oysters. And, the same reason CLCND chose STORM to do so. Yes, hopefully one day when the air is cleared and the legal battles are over, not only STORM but other like-minded fisherman will financially benefit from this lease, so each can reinvest in the reef, while also at the same time improving the health of our bays for the betterment of everyone, saving our traditions and the industry for generations to come. Texas is years behind on managing the oyster compared to other states, particularly in the northeast, who have already faced extreme losses and are now starting to recover. Texas and the other Gulf states have an advantage over the northeast though, we are not too far gone. We can still recover â€œfairly easyâ€ with proper management and SUSTAINABLE practices, starting with the recognition of private property rights, the expansion of the lease program for traditional on-bottom mariculture and more reliance on free enterprise solving problems instead of inefficient BIG government.

P.S. I am not going to use 2cool as a platform for bickering about the so-called â€œbattle of the bedsâ€ between STORM and other companies in the industry. My only intentions are to offer a perspective from a member of the oyster industry as to the Problems and Solutions and give everybody a chance to voice their opinions on this thread, and also to their Senators, Representatives and TPWD.

Sincerely,
Justin Woody


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## Capn. Rod (Jan 22, 2016)

Oysters are a vital part not oyster boats like some one previously said. Oyster help clear up water and provide habitat. I was recently fishing east bay and the oyster boats were at it and had the water destroyed and pulled oysters up for atleast a good three hours. So I guess that all those oysters they were putting in east bay will be gone soon enough


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## roundman (May 21, 2004)

theres that word again " sustainable " like red snapper sustainable , puke


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## ToddyTrout (Mar 15, 2005)

Hey it's Catchy, I bet you believe all that Sammy Ray says too, don't ya? And of course ya gotta believe that Ben Nelson is the oyster guru!


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

ToddyTrout said:


> Hey it's Catchy, I bet you believe all that Sammy Ray says too, don't ya? And of course ya gotta believe that Ben Nelson is the oyster guru!


I am not Mr. Nelson's biggest fan


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## ToddyTrout (Mar 15, 2005)

Well I am glad to here that, I would never honor his name by calling him Mr. though. And Sammy Ray is bought and paid for by the Nelson family!


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## Wado (May 15, 2011)

*Nomads*

A member of a people having no permanent abode, and who travel from place to place to find fresh pasture for their livestock

Kind of describes the lifestyle of an oyster fisherman. I missed the big fleet, a hundred or so pushed into one dock space with no room to wiggle. Aransas Bay is opening and some boats left here and a few stayed to see if it's worth the boat ride. Some of the boats that were here came from the Aransas area so they went home. Still a pretty good fleet working this area that arrived last week. Nobody's breaking off any big limbs but at $32.00 a sack it's a pretty good scratch. I talked to one guy and he had 28 sacks today, that's $896.00. Probably burned 35 gallons of diesel at a buck twenty five so it's better than digging ditches. It does go a little deeper than that but for now no use going any further with the financial details. I wish they had paid us thirty two bucks a sack for them back then, I would have got me some alligator boots like Joe Nelson wore. Three buyers are set up in that tiny amount of space, I think one of them had over 900 sacks in one day last week off of their boats. I didn't go to the other two basins, lots of boats in them also. It would be best for everybody if they scattered out.


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## cpthook (Jan 16, 2008)

one thing for sure I had a couple red hot spots that I've fished for years, no longer produces fish. I had one area in particular i could fish on a weekend by myself unmarked and murder them. Always looked forward to the early June bite on solid fish, was scratching my head on why it just one year shut down. Can't even get a bite in the area now. So I fish other reefs in the same bay. This explains it.


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## troutsupport (May 22, 2006)

cpthook said:


> one thing for sure I had a couple red hot spots that I've fished for years, no longer produces fish. I had one area in particular i could fish on a weekend by myself unmarked and murder them. Always looked forward to the early June bite on solid fish, was scratching my head on why it just one year shut down. Can't even get a bite in the area now. So I fish other reefs in the same bay. This explains it.


Yes, but the 'this explains it part' is not necessarily the oyster boats in all cases. A lot of fish held onto the last bits of shell that were being decimated by the predators that came in with the high salinity year after year over the last 7-8 years, and then at some point those reefs just became nothing more than 1/4inch shell fragments and quit holding all the criteria that gave the fish a reason to be there on a regular basis. Roughness, biomass from oyster spawn, even algal growth on the solid shell, topographic relief, and current relief all attract the food chain and then the game fish.

The reefs that have held out the longest and in the best condition are many of the ones that are 'Oyster Leases' that were worked and reworked. But not all, even some of the 'leases' didn't make it in areas that were closest to the jetties or the highest salinity areas.

I'm all for making NEW reef. I think it would be great if the leased bottom was in high percentage areas for the future survivability of oyster, but bottom that doesn't currently have reef substrate on it. The Trinity oil well reefs are proof that making an entirely new reef with rock substrate on open clean bottom is entirely possible. There has to be a way that this can work out for all parties.


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## Cowboyupo6 (Jun 27, 2013)

What ever happened to the artificial reef that was going to get created from all the oyster shells from Kemah boardwalk?


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