# Does Something feel not right to you?



## Goose Lover (Jan 23, 2012)

I have this sort of ominous feeling that duck and goose hunting in this area is falling off rapidly.

We all know the goose hunting has slowed because of the much lower numbers of geese but I didn't really sense the duck hunting was falling off a cliff until this year.

From my perspective the number of people reporting on their hunts is way, way down. I don't see nearly the number of reports as I have in the past.

And I don't see the guides doing as much reporting as well.

This troubles me. Without hunters the habitat isn't going to be put on the landscape and I fear with each generation fewer and fewer people are waterfowl hunting. 

I believe people gravitate towards activities that are easy to access.

It is getting harder, and more expensive, for people to access areas to hunt. 

A generation or two ago many people could just walk outside their house or drive a very short distance and have the prospect of fabulous hunting. 

That's is much more difficult to find today.

Maybe it is my imagination? Thoughts?


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## Gilbert (May 25, 2004)

The only thing falling off is people posting reports. Many hunt public and picture posting and lake naming have become taboo. The internet ruined hunting and fishing. Too many internet scouters.


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## dbarham (Aug 13, 2005)

Gilbert said:


> The only thing falling off is people posting reports. Many hunt public and picture posting and lake naming have become taboo. The internet ruined hunting and fishing. Too many internet scouters.


Yup


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## Goose Lover (Jan 23, 2012)

If true, that would not explain the lack of reports and photos from hunters and guides on private land.


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## BretE (Jan 24, 2008)

Gilbert said:


> The only thing falling off is people posting reports. Many hunt public and picture posting and lake naming have become taboo.* The internet ruined hunting and fishing.* Too many internet scouters.


LOL.......


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## Spots and Dots (May 23, 2004)

Too many guides and outfitters running hunts everyday. Take, take, take.....something has to give.


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## marshrunner757 (Apr 7, 2015)

Rich mans sport now. Public land is too crowded with duck dynasty wannabes. I gave it up a couple years ago.


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## 4thbreak (May 20, 2005)

Last year everything was behind , and this year it seems even more so. If its thanksgiving and we haven't gotten our good push of snows, then I might start to worry. We have all the water right now to make things great. Plenty of spots for geese to roost, but just mostly specks like its October. These pacific fronts aren't going to get the job done anytime soon unless something changes.


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## Goose Lover (Jan 23, 2012)

There is only a small fraction of the number guide services that existed in the 1990's.

Long time and established names have faded away or barely operate today. And how many picking services are around now? I can't think of one. 

These guide services took out many, many parties each day. So I can't see that guides are ruining things compared to two or three decades ago. 

I spoke with a long time hunter who owned a very large guide service on the Texas coast 20 years ago. He went hunting this morning in an area that is heavily hunted and for the first time in his life he didn't hear another shot all day. 

To me that's a strong indicator that hunter interest is waning.


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## Capt. Marcus Canales (Aug 25, 2005)

Ever think mother nature may have a little to do with it? I read several pieces by DU and other big duck groups talkimg about migration patterns and rain in other parts of the country playing a big factor for yall and us down south.

Who knows, to be honest. Time will tell.

formally known as "osoobsessed"
Www.baffinbayrodandgun.com


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## DUKFVR (Aug 19, 2004)

I hope you are wrong Goose lover, but I am starting to feel the same way. Like stated earlier if the birds aren't here soon it is gonna be a really tough year & could tell the future migration pattern here or lack of.I know up in the Coleman area we aren't seeing any kind of numbers of ducks and normally by this time the ponds on our ranch are getting hit hard. Drove back last weekend & saw very few birds from Coleman to Houston.


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## JFolm (Apr 22, 2012)

Over here east of Galveston bay we have been shooting ducks. There's my report.


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## dknut (Jul 18, 2006)

Lots of ducks in Eagle Lake/Garwood. Just as many guides and hunters too. 
Two bird picking operations as well. 


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## Pocketfisherman (May 30, 2005)

4thbreak said:


> Last year everything was behind , and this year it seems even more so. If its thanksgiving and we haven't gotten our good push of snows, then I might start to worry. We have all the water right now to make things great. Plenty of spots for geese to roost, but just mostly specks like its October. These pacific fronts aren't going to get the job done anytime soon unless something changes.


I was in the deer blind this passed Saturday AM (Mills county) and heard a huge flyover moving south right at sunrise. It took them 4-5 minutes to completely fly over, huge area of many formations.


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## Live_Flyway_Action (Dec 3, 2013)

A lot of people didn't get out for the opener also with the weather being so rough lately. I bet things pick right back up soon


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## daddyeaux (Nov 18, 2007)

Ok, my take on this. 
First we have been in a drought for the last 4 or 5 years. That had a major affect on the wetlands in Texas. Rice farmers were restricted to first crop water only. Duck hunters got no extra water for ponds. And a lot of natural wetland dried up. The birds take notice of this and adjust their flight path accordingly.
I think this will change back to normal with a couple good wet winters, as the birds will take notice again.
Second, it takes some really cold up north to push the birds down in mass numbers and that hasn't happened yet.
Third, and probably catch some flack over this one, is that the more wetlands and habitat that DU creates up north hurts the hunters on the coast. If we have a mild winter and the duck and geese have ample food and water up north of here, why come to the coast. I am a member of DU and Delta, but I firmly believe DU is hurting the coastal hunting.


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## BigTim (Dec 3, 2006)

daddyeaux said:


> Ok, my take on this.
> First we have been in a drought for the last 4 or 5 years. That had a major affect on the wetlands in Texas. Rice farmers were restricted to first crop water only. Duck hunters got no extra water for ponds. And a lot of natural wetland dried up. The birds take notice of this and adjust their flight path accordingly.
> I think this will change back to normal with a couple good wet winters, as the birds will take notice again.
> Second, it takes some really cold up north to push the birds down in mass numbers and that hasn't happened yet.
> Third, and probably catch some flack over this one, is that the more wetlands and habitat that DU creates up north hurts the hunters on the coast. If we have a mild winter and the duck and geese have ample food and water up north of here, why come to the coast. I am a member of DU and Delta, but I firmly believe DU is hurting the coastal hunting.


X2...

...as rice production on the coast has fallen off, it has risen in Arkansas. They are making a strong effort up there to hold the birds in that state, as well as Oklahoma and Kansas.


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## Rack Ranch (May 25, 2004)

You can't find another place to stick a blind in the Aransas Pass/Rockport area. My little honey hole used to have one or two other hunters. This year there was a blind placed on my spot and another 300 yards away. Opening morning of teal season it looked like black Friday at Wal-Mart...Duck hunting is alive and well down here.


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## G K Chambers (Aug 12, 2005)

At the present time it's 21 in Churchill. It's 45 in Saskatoon. In Minot it's 46.



In Texas the sky is falling.

Feels about right to me.



The claims that the birds are shortstopping in Kansas and Arkansas have been made since the early 1970's...along with request to reduce the limit below 5.


45 degrees is not going to move a goose.

At best 21 degrees is only going to mildly annoy them.



Patience gentlemen. Patience.

Lord knows it's been a while.


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## capthunterdude (Nov 15, 2006)

Duck number have been tough the past few years for use down here. The second season seems to be even worse than the first. We were in a severe drought and that really changed the number of ducks that held in our area. The ducks are starting to filter back in the past couple season as we have been getting rain. This year, I have seen zero geese and tons of cranes. With all the rain we have had, the farmers were not able to get crops out or the crops were washed out. 

Between the drought and the excessive amounts of rain in our hunting areas we have had very, very little food sources to hold a steady migration. It is getting better though. 

As far as number of hunters, that is growing in our area. I think people in general are just too busy these days to get and hunt. I think it is more of a societal thing than a lack of enjoyment of hunting. 

I think people are beginning to realize that hunting is a very competitive event. Therefore, no more reports are being posted. Not even on private land. I stopped posting reports on a local Facebook page because I didn't want to deal with knuckleheads, even on private land. Answering questions about the property and where I'm hunting gets annoying, and I'm a little paranoid as well.


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## duckmania (Jun 3, 2014)

I hunt the coast a lot. It seems to me that we are getting the redheads and pintails as usual, but I see far fewer widgeon and even teal compared to several years ago. I don't see near as many bluegills either as years past. It's still early and we have lots of food so maybe they'll show up,later. Blue bills seem to come later. I have a little freshwater hole in a back lake that I have been hunting for years that I'm pretty sure no else hunts, I usually get quite a bit of variety in there, but the key is to only hunt it no more than twice a week, I try and leave it alone on the weekends because of the pressure and it gives the pintails a place to hide. I checked on it the other day and it was empty except for a few gadwalls. It's still early though.


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## Kingofsabine18 (Oct 29, 2008)

We been kicking their ***** up here in SETX. Start to a great year so far. Even shot this bonus bird this morning. I think it's just a late year so far. We will all be just fine!


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## Duckchasr (Apr 27, 2011)

*A few around*

Our salt marshes are in the best shape they have been since hurricane Ike. With all the rain we have received over Texas all the seasonal wetlands are full as well as a lot of the lakes are experiencing the new lake effect. I feel the birds have so much habitat available that they are just spread out. Now the geese well they are just not making it down here in the numbers they used too. My 16 yo son and his younger brother and 2 friends got their limit opening day. I learned em' right.lol:texasflag
Oh yeah on public land.


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## shifty2002 (Jul 20, 2006)

Just need a few good arctic blast to push the birds out of Canada and northern US. Canadian reports say they are still loaded with all species. As other have commented, the birds have to have a reason to head south. IMO they could push opening day to Thanksgiving weekend and let the season run longer and it wouldn't hurt my feelings. Change the season with the weather patterns, but that would take too much thought on behalf of the fed's and the states.


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## MWP (Mar 30, 2005)

BigTim said:


> ...as rice production on the coast has fallen off, it has risen in Arkansas. They are making a strong effort up there to hold the birds in that state, as well as Oklahoma and Kansas.


 Rice on the Eastside of Houston is back up and so are the ducks. Been beating them up pretty good so far.


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## daddyeaux (Nov 18, 2007)

I remember when rice fields were solid from Baytown to Beaumont. And geese by the thousands. Glad to see them coming back on that side of town.


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## cva34 (Dec 22, 2008)

daddyeaux said:


> I remember when rice fields were solid from Baytown to Beaumont. And geese by the thousands. Glad to see them coming back on that side of town.


Matagorda co was Full of rice farms tell LCRA cut water off to Farmer.couple years ago...Since the D&G numbers way down...I drove to Victoria via 35/111/59 and back home 59/71/35 back to Bay City..Never saw a D or G...In norm. years I would have seen 100s of thousands


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## Run-N-Gun (Jul 5, 2007)

Need weather! An Arctic front would change everything. Canada and northern states need to freeze and the birds will show up. Small fronts will keep bringing us a few birds, but until we get an Artic one we won't get them in masses.


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## MadMike (Mar 21, 2008)

First time in 20 yrs I haven't killed a bird going into 3rd week of duck season. That tells me something is up. And I've seen some slow starts but this is rediculous.


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## MadMike (Mar 21, 2008)

Run-N-Gun said:


> Need weather! An Arctic front would change everything. Canada and northern states need to freeze and the birds will show up. Small fronts will keep bringing us a few birds, but until we get an Artic one we won't get them in masses.


And by then season will be over. I see more ducks in February more and more each yr. They should start season on thanksgiving day.


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## Run-N-Gun (Jul 5, 2007)

MadMike said:


> And by then season will be over. I see more ducks in February more and more each yr. They should start season on thanksgiving day.


Can only hunt the days the Feds give us and make the best of it. If winter keeps coming later and later, maybe they'll decide to move the dates sometime in the future. I'm sure it has more to do with other things than just harvest numbers.


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## LA Wader (Oct 22, 2013)

> Third, and probably catch some flack over this one, is that the more wetlands and habitat that DU creates up north hurts the hunters on the coast. If we have a mild winter and the duck and geese have ample food and water up north of here, why come to the coast. I am a member of DU and Delta, but I firmly believe DU is hurting the coastal hunting.


I am a firm believer of this and have been for years! We have had some pretty cold winters the last couple of years and the bird numbers aren't what they were in the past.

I hunt all over southwest LA, from the marshes to the fields. We still kill plenty of ducks and specks, but you can't be as picky as one could be in years past! With that being said, I don't see the numbers of ducks and geese that I saw in years past. Especially the white birds. Specks seem to be trending down also.

Good luck.


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## Goose Lover (Jan 23, 2012)

If anyone has ever been to Arkansas or North Louisiana during the winter you have seen the incredible amount of water that is put on the landscape for waterfowl hunting. The land is flat and water is cheap.

Most of the fields are flooded by blocking up the outside rice levees in the fields. I didn't see much in the way of substantial levees built by dirt moving equipment although I did see one field near Berridge where they used the county road as the levee. Worked great.

Hunters could, and would, do that regardless of the assistance from Ducks Unlimited.

The North Louisiana, Arkansas, Mississippi and Missouri corridor as about 70% of the nations rice farming. Add to that many, many river bottoms, winter wheat, corn and soybeans. 

That's where the birds are going now.


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## Moonpie (Jun 20, 2004)

Gave it up because it just got too expensive.

I am not alone.


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## Chuckwagon (Aug 30, 2006)

Weather...and habitat. We are sorely lacking on the weather part. A bird isn't going to fly 1000 miles to Texas when it can still get everything it needs right now in Canada or the Dakotas.


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## 4thbreak (May 20, 2005)

Record corn harvests this year down the flyway too.


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## Cajun Raider (Jun 15, 2008)

Lots of factors coming into play IMO but the result is definitely less hunting opportunities and thus, less hunters. It seems to be happening in all of the old/traditional hunting areas.


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## BigTim (Dec 3, 2006)

Chuckwagon said:


> Weather...and habitat. We are sorely lacking on the weather part. A bird isn't going to fly 1000 miles to Texas when it can still get everything it needs right now in Canada or the Dakotas.


...but I do remember decades ago as kid I would worry that the opener would be a bust. Then like magic,overnight, they would fill the Garwood prairie the Wednesday or Thursday before the opener. No major weather front, I think it was more about the moon. I'm looking forward to the next full moon, perhaps we will have some movement.


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## JFolm (Apr 22, 2012)

Had a good day today


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## OnedayScratch (May 23, 2012)

JFolm said:


> Had a good day today


Nice!


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## wet dreams (May 21, 2004)

Studzenbacker said yrs ago >Millions of acres of rice has disapeared= loss of habitat. Where I hunted for years has been taken over by Water Hyacinth and no help from the state, Ike washed most of it out BUT it has come back, some places so thick it will stick a airboat. Late winters or NO winter are another reason...that said Id bet I could go to JD Murphries on a weekday and get a limit of mallards thanks to the time spent with Stutz


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## teeroy (Oct 1, 2009)

Goose Lover said:


> To me that's a strong indicator that hunter interest is waning.


I wish it was waning in my public spots lol

I've done a little reading on photo migrators. Check it out. The good majority of the ducks we shoot around these parts south migrate when their body senses the length of the day getting shorter. Some fowl are programmed to not move until there's no more food or water. Some just know when it's time to go. There are plenty of grey ducks and baldpates down south right now. With that said, we could use a stiff, cold north wind about now. This time last year we have had two or three real fronts. I was just looking back at my pics from the second week of Nov. last season and I remember freezing.

Just wait, they'll come.:dance:


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## 3rdcst (Jun 16, 2009)

It's very frustrating to have to he birds arrive late . That being said it isn't unusual . I can remembe many yea s were the huge number of geese dIdnt arrive till the hanksgiving.


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## Jpaulp (Nov 14, 2012)

I saw more specklebellies south of Lacassine, LA this past weekend than I have seen snow geese south of Winnie over the last 3 years.


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## ranchobob (Nov 2, 2007)

I was in Saskatchewan till Oct 25th there were still lots of Bw and Gw teal there and Red Heads. The snows had not arrived in great numbers. It did not freeze the whole time I was there. It's the weather we have been having and I think the migration has shifted some. We are killing ducks but it is slower than usual.


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## Bull Minnow (May 28, 2004)

Well I wish they would hurry up. I haven't fired 1 shot this year. Going flounder fishing in Louisiana this weekend


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## Mojo281 (Sep 7, 2006)

Everything in this world is cyclical... Even oil prices. Lol!!
*
Just when you think you are beginning to understand waterfowl, you don't....*


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## grman (Jul 2, 2010)

Waterfowl tend to migrate to a latitude where they will find open water (unfrozen) to roost and plentiful food supplies nearby. Traditionally (200 years) this line was Arkansas to Northern Louisiana to Reelfoot Tenn. There were enough polar fronts to move birds South of that line consistently but the very seldom did they winter North.

Texas coast has suffered from loss of agriculture, notably rice and warmer temps. Chambers county was especially hard hit. From the numbers I am seeing published is that Texas sees 1/10 of the goose numbers that it did in the hey day of the 1970s.

The other side of the waterfowl game is the economics. Waterfowling is a young man's sport. I am 57 and in my teens and twenties I was mad at hell at any thing with web feet. Young guns just don't have the cash so it is public land hunting. The older you get (and with more disposable income) the less you want to deal with the mud, the insane hours and the more you have other things demanding your time. Raising a family, Job obligations etc draw you away from the sport. On top of this - the local - easy drive - public areas around Houston, Dallas etc have all been developed. So for a lot of us - waterfowling is no longer something we can do with an hour drive on a Saturday morning. It is more like deer hunting where you have to devote a weekend with overnight accomedations.


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## Brad Beaulieu (May 10, 2006)

I can't add anything that hasn't already been brought up. Yes we need a steady cold push of weather to move the birds. I've talked to folks all across the country into Canada and there are tons of birds up north and the water in Canada is still not frozen. Later than usual crop harvests and abundant water from rainfall has all they birds need up north until the water gets hard and the food runs low.
I run a small guiding operation near Winnie and we've been slow and had some bust days in some blinds but we're at over 5 birds per hunter average/ close to 1200 harvested making us about a 60 bird per hunting day average. That's closely managed private property. That being said, we have no where near the "normal" amount of birds on the ranch. We've done nothing different, habitat is there and ll my networking tells me we're just waiting on the weather.

The sport is a little harder in some ways but much easier than when I started in the 80's. Just look at all the mud motors and ATV's that go just about anywhere. I think the advent of the 3 wheeler did more to impact goose and waterfowling in general than just about any other "recent" invention. But yes those cost $$$ which as some mentioned only the older crew can afford. But I still see a huge line of lifted tricked out trucks with new mud motor powered boats lined up as much as 2 days ahead at the local WMA. So I know somehow there's a new cadre of recruits out there with the same burning passion that many of us once started with so there's no lack of new blood coming up into the sport.

Be patient, they'll come. In the mean while just enjoy that we have the choice to do what we do. Many do not.


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## Goose Lover (Jan 23, 2012)

I would happily give up 4 wheelers and all ATV's if we could have the kind of goose numbers we had in the 1980's and 1990's. 

Geese can take the cold. The Louisiana/Arkansas border is roughly at the same latitude as Dallas.

And the panhandle of Texas is roughly the same latitude as the Arkansas/Louisiana border. 

Nobody would say that a winter in Dallas is too cold for geese to tolerate.

It is a miracle we still have any geese that migrate here.


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## Goose Lover (Jan 23, 2012)

Correction: I meant to write the panhandle of Texas is roughly the same latitude as the Arkansas/Missouri border.


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## MWP (Mar 30, 2005)

Goose Lover said:


> And the panhandle of Texas is roughly the same latitude as the Arkansas/Louisiana border.
> 
> Nobody would say that a winter in Dallas is too cold for geese to tolerate.
> 
> It is a miracle we still have any geese that migrate here.


 It's the amount of rice that is stopping the geese further North at least in the MS Flyway. NE LA holds insane amounts of geese because of the Ag and maybe because nobody really hunts them. No pressure, plenty of roost water, and tons of rice equals why would a goose fly further South. Arkie holds even more geese than we do and they used to only pit stop there en route to us or the LA coast.

Yes, it is a miracle they migrate to Texas because honestly, I think most of the geese that migrate to Texas are shifting into the MS Flyway.


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## Goose Lover (Jan 23, 2012)

It is more than rice. It is the availability of other crops, especially corn, as well.

Many white geese and specklebellies now winter in Kansas but no rice is farmed there.

Same goes for Illinois. Lots of white birds and specks.

Missouri farms about the same amount of rice as Texas but has many more geese.

The corn crop in those states is harvested in the fall or late fall. Right about the time the birds are migrating. And much of that is no till. So there is a huge amount of corn laying right on top of the ground when they arrive. And because it is cold it doesn't sprout and it doesn't get plowed under.


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## MWP (Mar 30, 2005)

Goose Lover said:


> It is more than rice. It is the availability of other crops, especially corn, as well.


 I don't know about other states, but from Arkie on down to NE LA, it's rice. Sometimes they will beat up on a bean field on occasion, but mostly rice.


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## Jungle_Jim (Nov 16, 2007)

The drought in north west Texas completely changed the duck's routes. 10 years ago I was slaying ducks up here. Then all the water went away , for years. The ducks left and didn't come back. This is the first year in more than 8 years that the water has come back.


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## jp46832 (Nov 21, 2015)

Very slow since big duck opened on upper coast east of houston


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## Brad Beaulieu (May 10, 2006)

The ranch I hunt used to winter around 10K geese. About the time they stopped showing up 2 things happened. E-callers and decreased rice production in the area. Once those older geese are killed or learn a new migration pattern there's "nobody" to show the younger ones where to go. Just food for thought.

BTW.. killed 67 out of a possible 84 birds this morning. Saw some big flights of gadwall and much more bird activity than past mornings so I'm assuming this little front pushed us some fresh guests to quack at. So there's your guide report for the day.


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## oOslikOo (Jul 13, 2010)

Geese and cranes moving in as we speak. Flying over south central Texas. Saw fresh ducks today as well.


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## kweber (Sep 20, 2005)

goose shooting used to be fun... not work..
the helll with putting out 500plus rags/decoys....
we'll shoot fly-overs at camp...
or just BBQ and enjoy cocktails...
we all did the death march, but only to spread rags for maybe 15-20 minutes...
then we got ATV's...
better...
1000 rag spreads.. no way...


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## MWP (Mar 30, 2005)

Brad Beaulieu said:


> The ranch I hunt used to winter around 10K geese. About the time they stopped showing up 2 things happened. E-callers and decreased rice production in the area. Once those older geese are killed or learn a new migration pattern there's "nobody" to show the younger ones where to go. Just food for thought.
> 
> BTW.. killed 67 out of a possible 84 birds this morning. Saw some big flights of gadwall and much more bird activity than past mornings so I'm assuming this little front pushed us some fresh guests to quack at. So there's your guide report for the day.


 I started hunting/guiding the Eastside in 1996. Back then, by the first week of December, you could count on at least 3 to 4 major concentrations of geese anywhere from Leggett's ranch to China. However, like you said, it was the rice that kept them in the area. As the rice production on the Eastside tanked, I think those birds shifted over to the MS Flyway.

Will be in Winnie in the AM hoping that those Greys are still around.


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## oOslikOo (Jul 13, 2010)

East side winters more geese now than ever


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## 4thbreak (May 20, 2005)

oOslikOo said:


> East side winters more geese now than ever


From talking with TPWD, they are attributing it to the increased rice production on that side of town. I know they mentioned most of the geese they counted last year on that side were in rice mid December when they did the survey.


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## Goose Lover (Jan 23, 2012)

677,000 Specklebelly's counted in Arkansas this week.

That's more then the number of light geese that were counted some years during the glory days of the Texas coast.

What are their light goose numbers going to be?

Has to be off the charts.


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## oOslikOo (Jul 13, 2010)

4thbreak said:


> From talking with TPWD, they are attributing it to the increased rice production on that side of town. I know they mentioned most of the geese they counted last year on that side were in rice mid December when they did the survey.


I imagine so, but I also think it pulled birds from the west side during the drought. More water over there and lots of rice closer to the coast as opposed to the west side. I'm hoping with the improved habitat this year and increased rice production that looks to come, we can maintain half a million.


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