# News Back from Washington on Red Snapper



## jim smarr (May 21, 2004)

*News back form Washington on Red Snapper* 
We have been sold out! We had a deal to revise the Magnuson to benefit Recreational Anglers. The enviro's have found some new "Partners" in their efforts to crush the Recreational Fishing Sector.

Stalling the effort and welshing on our deal may have just cost us Fishing in Federal Waters for a few years if we do not respond immediately.

We will have a game plan to overcome the "Judas Partners". Sad day when 
Two Recreational Angler.Orgs side with the enviros.


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## texasjellyfish (Jan 23, 2006)

From reading my tide magazine it only leaves me to wonder is the cca their new "Partner" ?. I have been a member since they begun as gcca. It appears that the commerical sector is where there views are at nowdays .They have lost my support and i will not rejoin next year. The main reason for being a member was due to the fact of the star . Maybe the RFA can power up a star type event because thats where my credit card is going


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## Phat_Tuna (Jul 1, 2004)

Both of you stop trolling, Jim Who, What, When Where? please be specific. Otherwise you might as well go to *** and hang out with Lynn again


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## Wahoome (Apr 16, 2005)

Jim's gotta be careful here but specifics will come. I can tell you it's not the RFA.....who are the other two .org supposed supporters of recreational fisherman? It'll all come out in the wash and hopefully discerning anglers will see who's really on not on their side. It's got to do with how the catch is estimated and whether or not there's a better way to do it.


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## texasjellyfish (Jan 23, 2006)

I only troll offshore , this is how i feel about this matter and it didnt start yesterday . Feel free and call me and i will tell you the same thing william dafft @ 281 331 5873 


Phat_Tuna said:


> Both of you stop trolling, Jim Who, What, When Where? please be specific. Otherwise you might as well go to *** and hang out with Lynn again


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## zihuatanejo (Jun 29, 2004)

*What???*

I would imagine that you could find a way to be more helpful! QUOTE=Phat_Tuna]Both of you stop trolling, Jim Who, What, When Where? please be specific. Otherwise you might as well go to *** and hang out with Lynn again[/QUOTE]


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## Mike Jennings (Oct 11, 2005)

Phat_Tuna said:


> Both of you stop trolling, Jim Who, What, When Where? please be specific. Otherwise you might as well go to *** and hang out with Lynn again


id call that a brain phat ,, maby you could give it another try
.
thank you jim, those of us that have followed this from the start understand and are greatfull for your evolvement ...thank you ..Mike


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## jim smarr (May 21, 2004)

This is serious. Chairman Pombo has told us where and why were betrayed. We will be getting a letter from National explaining in detail this issue. We wanted first five fish and a 12 month season back when we were betrayed last time if you remember we were blessed with an 18" Fish and the ensuing slaughter fest.


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## kinja (May 21, 2004)

Someone, just 2 or 3 of you tell me what the RFA has done for any of us. I cannot figure it out, The RFA can't provide me anything tangible that they've seen to fruition for the Texas Gulf. I'm sick and tired of being told some SOB.org sold us down the river. Too many excuses with no quantifiable solutions, much less results. Sounds like another conspiracy from the grassy knoll. Rumor and inuendo suck guys, how about some answers. And answers don't mean putting down another organization or their supporters. WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO TANGIBLY BENEFIT TEXAS AND WESTERN GULF ANGLERS? I will contribute $500 to the RFA for two examples of something that has been completed to fruition on our behalf(TEXAS) in a fairly significant way for the offshore angler. If they agree, I will ask some solid fellows, Mont, Charlie Everts, and John Stout to decide if the examples are acceptable. All it takes is two out of 3 of them to agree and I'll make a check out to RFA. I am one who readily says I'm sorry, you are right. I've asked for 2 years and have gotten no real examples. Anyone else want to pony up? I'm glad to write a check to a worthy cause, the RFA included. -Tom Pattillo


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## zihuatanejo (Jun 29, 2004)

*20 something posts and you got a beef...LOL...*

First off we have given the Rec angler an option other than the overpaid bureaucrats over at CCA. We got a delay at the meeting in Louisiana meeting, we have the full support of TPWD for the Reefing project and helped in getting the monies for the opening of Vinson Slough as of today, not to mention dragging Hogarth to court a few years back The RFA in Texas is a fairly young endeavor and I find it is assinine to even consider your suggestion that we do not or have not done anything for the recreational fishermen/women in Texas. Furthermore Jim Smarr, Tom Hilton and others have busted their tails for us for FREE..ZIP...ZERO..not to mention the countless hours sacrificed away from family and work. You?...what have you done lately for the Texas fisheries??? A wise man told me once that "you cannot be part of the solution and part of the problem at the same time"....so where do you stand??? These recent events will not sit well with many folks who have sent monies to cca over the years... looks like the RFA's membership will be getting larger!! So I ask again...what have you done for Texas fisheries lately...aside from sending in your cca membership money??



Pattillo said:


> Someone, just 2 or 3 of you tell me what the RFA has done for any of us. I cannot figure it out, The RFA can't provide me anything tangible that they've seen to fruition for the Texas Gulf. I'm sick and tired of being told some SOB.org sold us down the river. Too many excuses with no quantifiable solutions, much less results. Sounds like another conspiracy from the grassy knoll. Rumor and inuendo suck guys, how about some answers. And answers don't mean putting down another organization or their supporters. WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO TANGIBLY BENEFIT TEXAS AND WESTERN GULF ANGLERS? I will contribute $500 to the RFA for two examples of something that has been completed to fruition on our behalf(TEXAS) in a fairly significant way for the offshore angler. If they agree, I will ask some solid fellows, Mont, Charlie Everts, and John Stout to decide if the examples are acceptable. All it takes is two out of 3 of them to agree and I'll make a check out to RFA. I am one who readily says I'm sorry, you are right. I've asked for 2 years and have gotten no real examples. Anyone else want to pony up? I'm glad to write a check to a worthy cause, the RFA included. -Tom Pattillo


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## jim smarr (May 21, 2004)

*Kinja Pattilla*

I saved your email exchanges from the last time you attacked me as Kinja. The Chairman and a sitting member of the Fisheries Committee gave us the low down today. We have been through your distaste for me before. I will not take the bait.

Hope you enjoy fishing The Great Barrier Reef.


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## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

You aren't helping yourself, or RFA tonight Jim. I put over 600 miles of Gulf under me this last weekend. Been there, seen it. Get some salt under your feet and some blood on your shoes. Tom and I did.


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## kinja (May 21, 2004)

20 something posts as Pattillo. My other handle was Kinja, got tired of emails of a racial tone so changed my name recently to better reflect my real name. Been around since '97 or so with the beginning of this crowd. Was on TTMB the second week of its existence, forget the year, former Banquet chair of the Katy CCA, donated thousands of hours and personal dollars to CCA, DU, SCA, IGFA, BSA, and other non fishing causes (full disclosure). I have a distaste for public ridicule, inuendo, lack of personal accountability, lack of contributing to society, lazy people, people who don't say what they mean, public rudeness, and most of all, a lack of accountability. I love results though. I work my growing rearend off to make a good living, provide for my family, my friends, help strangers in tough situations and causes for which I believe and just causes fronted by results driven men and women of strong morals and ethics. I will question those that aren't and will tell them my direct feelings in private. I pull no punches with friends, foe, or those yet undetermined. I'm sure there are many 2cool PM's and emails stating so to folks here, in private mind you. Attack me personally but anyone, please, again I ask, give me 2 reason the RFA deserves my Texas support. Please, as I'm as desperate as alot of us are for a results driven group to champion our causes. Respectfully Zihuatanejo, which items of those you mention have blossomed into actual results? Support is for boobs, simply window dressing. A real surgical job is what's needed for aging, sagging problems.-Tom Pattillo


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## manintheboat (Jun 1, 2004)

what has CCA done on the snapper issue Tom?


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## kinja (May 21, 2004)

Manintheboat, I wasn't addressing CCA's position, which I've also questioned in private communications. Respectfully, I've got some cash I would love to give to the RFA. Again, please, give me a reason....-Tom Pattillo


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## Bertram 33 (May 4, 2006)

Better yet Tom why did CCA not join in the lawsuit with the Sierra Club in Louisiana against SHELL OIL COMPANY and their open loop LNG proposal. It couldn't be because
their #1 corporate supporter is the GREAT SHELL OIL COMPANY!! CCA was a great
organization in it's infancy(taking on the poor monofilament gillnetters) but as the stakes have risen they have decided to run with their tail between their legs.(1) Jim Smarr (2) Tom Hilton- One day you will have to shake these guys hands and thank them for what they did for all Texas fisherman.


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## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

It is not always what someone HAS done for me... it is for what they are trying to do for me that I appreciate. I have not seen anyone from CCA that has offered a recreational fisherman solution to this problem. Lets see one... CCA has done much good in the past but it is the present and future that I am worried about right now.


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## manintheboat (Jun 1, 2004)

Well first and formost, RFA is the only organization that is standing up to commercial overfishing of red snapper. No other organization is lifting a finger in this fight. They are also on point in getting the TGBR off of the ground. This will be huge if they succeed. Sometimes it is not where you have been, but where you are going.


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## manintheboat (Jun 1, 2004)

Pattillo said:


> Respectfully, I've got some cash I would love to give to the RFA. ....-Tom Pattillo


Honestly, I doubt that.


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## kinja (May 21, 2004)

Thanks Kwaldmann, are you saying this is a tangible result of the RFA's efforts? Wouldn't the Sierra Club be one of Jim Smarr's ENVIRO groups? K, I'm not arguing against the open loop LNG as I think they are abominable, however, I want to stay on task. I'll throw your idea to the boys for consideration but I think it lacks in substance for my money as outlined earlier. Glad to pay if the men of substance I chose previously disagree though.-Tom Pattillo



kwaldmann said:


> Better yet Tom why did CCA not join in the lawsuit with the Sierra Club in Louisiana against SHELL OIL COMPANY and their open loop LNG proposal. It couldn't be because
> their #1 corporate supporter is the GREAT SHELL OIL COMPANY!! CCA was a great
> organization in it's infancy(taking on the poor monofilament gillnetters) but as the stakes have risen they have decided to run with their tail between their legs.


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## TOM WEBER (Aug 14, 2005)

My humble advice..donate because you believe in the goal (the reef for example), and integrity of the organization. If you wait for completion of the task at hand, the donation adds little to the cause. CCA has done little IMO for quite some time to benefit TX or the gulf fishery. Their membership is as large as it is because none of us can stand the thought of catching a winning fish and not being registered (great marketing). I will continue to join, but extra money will go towards an organization that appears much more goal oriented than the CCA currently does. TW


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## kinja (May 21, 2004)

Haute Pursuit and Manintheboat. Great job in giving me two results as opposed to excuses. As we all know, the road to hell was paved with good intentions. I tell you what, I will be mailing a $500 cashier's check to Monty Weeks tomorrow. I will leave it blank and he alone can fill it in. If anyone of you, or any other can answer my challenge to the satisfaction of two of the three judges, all goes to the RFA. If no one can by September 25, one week from now, I will consider it as the first of a personal semi-annual donation for the next 10 years for a 2cool scholarship fund for an entering college freshman into a 4 year Texas University. That's $1000 annually for those who can't figure it out. I will even pay to have an attorney set up the scholarship fund and will serve on the board if that's ok. Again, give me a reason to send a few dollars to the RFA, or I'll help send a deserving teen to college. Anyone else want to help fund the RFA/2CoolCollege fund challenge? Jim Smarr, this isn't baiting brother, its putting my limited money where my heart is. The time for rhetoric is over boys, excuses and sellouts are like ahsholes, they all stink.-Tom Pattillo


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## wacker (Mar 22, 2006)

Patillo, Without jim, Tom, and the RFA There wouldn't even be a contoversy over snapper managment in the GOM, We would just go and take it as it comes with our heads in the sand. The Grennes took california waters after the comms and fishery managment desroyed the fishery and thats because the recs didn't have one voice, RFA is our voice. I can talk to Jim or tom anytime try that with CCA. Fisherys managment is for the future not the past and Nobody asked you for 500 bucks. I do ask you get off the fence and pick a side. Jim Stewart


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## manintheboat (Jun 1, 2004)

so you are saying that RFA has done nothing?


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## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

Good for you Patillo... each is a worthy cause.


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## kinja (May 21, 2004)

Hey Whacker, which state has the highest membership in the RFA? I don't have the #'s, but I wager another $50 to the cause that Californ I A does. If they can't get it done there, can it be done here? Girls and guys, I don't have the solution. But I don't think the RFA has the organization in our area to do it right. I truly think it takes a paid, focused staff to pull these things off. Give Jim Smarr the money and time and he's certainly intelligent enough to do right by us. Unfortunately, I feel we are throwing good money to bad organization not a bad organization. I hope I'm wrong, but I havent seen ANY results for my bluewater brothers and sisters in the last xxx years. Please prove me wrong or in a week without answers, lets organize to send one of our deserving girls or boys to college in addition to the snapper task at hand. Either way, we win. By the way Whacker, I'm sorry no one asked for a little money, but I'm offering it anyway. Sorry if a little monetary donation offends you. Curiously Jim Smarr, which state has the largest individual membership into the RFA, let's say as of 01-01-2006? -Tom Pattillo


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## wacker (Mar 22, 2006)

Patillo, I dont have those #s either but i will bet my last pair of underware (if I can find them) they have more Greenes than anywere. Can we do it here in Texas? I don't know but its as good a place as any right. Lets go down swinging together! You know the Alamo and all that stuff.


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## zihuatanejo (Jun 29, 2004)

Patillo, apparently you need to call Charlie and get the lowdown from him as he has been instrumental in getting things done on several fronts for the RFA lately. I do not come here to argue or fight, but when I find out that we have been sold out by a supposed friend of the fishemen I am sickened, 1 fish and a 2 month season!!! What really burns me up though is the fact that this will ruin the businesses of many connected to the fisheries all along the Gulf Coast....the ones who rebuilt after Katrina and are barely hanging on to a ray of hope that they just might make it... like Cypress Cove Marina. Or even local businesses like Captian Elliot's or Captain Johnny Williams who updated their boats and set out to offer a nicer ride and better service to customers. Any organisation who stands by and allows such gross mismanagement of our resources and will in effect allow this to happen does not deserve one penny of a fishermans money. This state and country were built upon a sense of community, and we are a community as fishermen and women and it is time that we work together as a community to ensue the PROPER management of our resources!! My grandfather did not teach me about being a responsible sportsman so some stuffed shirt scientist who has never even been fishing, or some overpaid slick willie who's looking for his next big commitee appointment can tell me that everything is fine with commercial fishing and that the "fuzzy" science says blah blah blah, and that despite the fact that they have crashed a fishery in 15 years....everything is ok and CCA agree's..in fact they support the numbers!! This will only strengthen our resolve and our rapidly growing membership, and we will continue as a community to work together for the future of our fisheries. You can stand on the sidelines and complain or jump in the trench and fight with us my friend...either way we will fight!!


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## TOM WEBER (Aug 14, 2005)

Well said!TW


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## Tom Hilton (May 24, 2004)

*kinja*



Pattillo said:



> Someone, just 2 or 3 of you tell me what the RFA has done for any of us. I cannot figure it out, The RFA can't provide me anything tangible that they've seen to fruition for the Texas Gulf. I'm sick and tired of being told some SOB.org sold us down the river. Too many excuses with no quantifiable solutions, much less results. Sounds like another conspiracy from the grassy knoll. Rumor and inuendo suck guys, how about some answers. And answers don't mean putting down another organization or their supporters. WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO TANGIBLY BENEFIT TEXAS AND WESTERN GULF ANGLERS? I will contribute $500 to the RFA for two examples of something that has been completed to fruition on our behalf(TEXAS) in a fairly significant way for the offshore angler. If they agree, I will ask some solid fellows, Mont, Charlie Everts, and John Stout to decide if the examples are acceptable. All it takes is two out of 3 of them to agree and I'll make a check out to RFA. I am one who readily says I'm sorry, you are right. I've asked for 2 years and have gotten no real examples. Anyone else want to pony up? I'm glad to write a check to a worthy cause, the RFA included. -Tom Pattillo


Tom,
First, you need to cool down here. Smarr is doing his best to keep everyone informed as to what is really going on, and has gone the extra yard in a sincere effort to help save the recreational fishery from collapse. Mr. Smarr has done everything he has with a laptop and a cell phone, and doesn't have a $3 million HQ to work out of. I've gone on this forum several times in the past and asked CCA members (anyone affiliated with CCA, including Walter Fondren, Pat Murray, etc.) to please join the dialogue and explain CCA's position on the snapper, shrimper bycatch issue, and illegal commercial overfishing. Guess what? Not one person replied - NOT ONE, including you Mr. Patillo. Now I know why. It was explained by the Chair of the Fisheries Committee; Mr. Pombo (and Mr. Saxton who is also on the Fisheries Comm) explained that CCA and ASA wanted to go with the staus quo on the Magnuson which basically guts the recreational fishery. The CCA also championed IFQ's. That's the Reader's Digest version, but the enviros and CCA are on exactly the same page here. More will be coming regarding this issue, so don't take my word for it - time will tell.

Now, regarding your statement that RFA has accomplished NOTHING to tangibly benefit Texas and Western Gulf anglers; 
1) I was in the room when Smarr suggested to Coastal Fisheries that they require the same 4 fish limit for ALL anglers in state waters. They did so, and have busted some commercial boats fishing illegally in Texas State waters since that meeting. This effectively eliminates commercial fishing in State Waters.
2) RFA sued TPWD over the No Motor Zone designation near the Land Cut and 9 Mile Hole - TPWD made a deal removing this designation due directlt to RFA's efforts.
3) RFA sued TPWD, USFW, and other agencies over the Cedar Bayou/Vinson Slough issue caused by one of CCA'S prominent supporters. RFA cut a deal with the GLO regarding getting funding for the project and partnering up as the lead agency in charge of the project. They are committed to seeing the project thru completion, which is well underway and WILL be completed.
4) RFA saved the live bait fishery when a state senator introduced a bill outlawing the use of live bait by lobbying the committee chairs and others to make sure it died in committee.
5) RFA worked hard with the NMFS to get the longliners moved out past the 50 fathom curve which had a tremendous impact in reducing mortality of sow snapper on the mud flats inside the 50 F curve.
6) RFA pushed hard for longline studies inside the 50 F curve when the numbers of sow snapper disappeared (due to #5 above) off of the stock assessment skewing the numbers to indicate overfishing. Once the longline studies came in, it showed a large biomass of sow snapper which helped the numbers indicate that overfishing was not occuring.
7) RFA filed a lawsuit against the 18" minimum snapper regulation in 2000(which CCA was in favor of) because RFA knew it would be a wholesale slaughter. Judge Head admonished CCA's Mr. Hayes saying as a matter of record in a federal court; "Mr. Hayes, aren't you on the wrong side of this lawsuit? Isn't CCA supposed to be a conservation organization?" Mr. Hayes had no reply to the Judge, by the way.

There's more, but you only asked for 2 examples.

Mr. Patillo, make the $500 check payable to the RFA-Texas, 1890 Ranch Rd 1, Stonewall, TX 78671.

All the best,
Tom Hilton
RFA Texas Boardmember


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## kinja (May 21, 2004)

Zihuatanejo, as a board member you must have at least 2 solid results as reasons to support the RFA locally. How about a long ago Texas victory like GCCA's redfish war. I beg you, give me a reason to back the current leadership of the RFA and a reason to believe they have someone other than the boating industry at heart. This isn't about the CCA, the USM research center, USGC, TPWD, etc... As you are a concerned activist, I hope you can appreciate that I've involved myself more than I can afford on nearshore and offshore issues. I'm starting a RFA fund drive if you will. Convice me that you have some rubber under the road and a history of winning....Heck, even the democrats have won presidential victories twice since the infamous redfish wars of the late 70's early 80's. I just want TWO reasons, hesus kristo, I had to give my first (current) wife 6 reasons that she should marry me 13 yrs ago, that was pretty easy. -Tom Pattillo


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## wacker (Mar 22, 2006)

Welcome!


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## tinman (Apr 13, 2005)

Talk about 2Cool!!! I love a good tussle. I just wish I was smart enough to know what is going on. The vast majority of us don't have a clue as to what goes on in these high powered meetings of the CCA, RFA, TPWD, NASA, and all those other abbreaveations that I have no idea what they mean.
Again, I wish I was a lot smarter about this. Guess I need to pay a lot better attention to what is going on in the fishing world. What ever happened to sitting on the creek bank warching a cork all day, and going home with a stringer of fish for the family supper? Remember when??


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## kinja (May 21, 2004)

Howdy,

I appreciate the response Mr. Hilton. I'm sure Monty will gladly write RFA in the Payable to area if 2 of 3 judges deem it agreeable. I'll leave it up to them to decide in or out on your offshore examples. I do think the judges probably shouldn't be looking for suits filed, rather should be looking for cases/causes decided in favor of the bluewater angler as championed by the RFA. But, that being said. My money is out there, I've been wrong before and I'm desperately looking for an organization with the time and talent to champion our causes and the force to close the deal. Have they done Texas size things in the past, and can they do it with snapper in 2006 or 2007? I have my doubts like other organizations out there. Please, prove me wrong. 

All the best,

Tom Pattillo

owner of a brokedown boat, and more heart than brains.


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## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

I hear ya tinman but is going to be hard to feed the family supper with one red snapper... that is unless you want to buy more from the commercials 51% take or your family doesn't eat much


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## Tom Hilton (May 24, 2004)

*snapper*

Mr. Patillo,
You're welcome!

The 7 examples are not suits filed, but are tangible RESULTS of RFA's ACTIONS. If Mont decides to do anything other than write the check to RFA, then I guess you have at least abdicated responsibility on the matter.

You stated; "I beg you, give me a reason to back the current leadership of the RFA and a reason to believe they have someone other than the boating industry at heart." The reason is the Jim Smarr and others active in the RFA cause are fighting this fight (on a volunteer basis) for ALL recreational fishermen, even you Mr. Patillo. The same cannot be said for the other .org. getting paid six figure salaries who have lost touch with their base.

Mr. Fondren made a statement last week saying that the commercial fishing industry is almost "digital" in it's accuracy of reporting the commercially-caught fish. There's something very smelly here, and it ain't the fish. You are proud of GCCA's Redfish Wars - *WAKE UP!* That was 3 DECADES ago - TODAY we are looking at enviromentalists (with CCA's help) taking away my kids' right to fish for snapper, *AND I DON'T LIKE IT*.

Sincerely,
Tom Hilton
RFA Texas Boardmember


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## zihuatanejo (Jun 29, 2004)

Patillo....I think Tom spoke fairly well for me and the RFA. I have Charlie's number if you need it. Z-


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## kinja (May 21, 2004)

Tom Hilton,

I believe the three gentlemen I mentioned are some of the most intelligent, unbiased, nonjudgemental contributors to this board. Abdication has nothing to do with it. Fairness is the name of the game here. As a matter of fact, I only believe Mr. Stout could pick me out of a lineup of men. That being said, view this as a sales presentation for the RFA.

Personally, nothing you said in the 7 point manifesto convinced me of the validity to give money to the RFA for our offshore water.

State water 4 fish limit, please, tell me your kidding that Jim and the RFA are responsible for that. We all know that' s not the case.

9 mile hole, disagree even from an inshore perspective, that was a decision for boat dealers, not the fish nor conservation.

Cedar Bayou, Ah yes, " the sand will fly in 90 days as per Mr. Smarr"?? What was that, 1999, 2000? Jim, what government official lied to you on that one? Speaking of lying down, even the old hair lipped, foul mouthed lady down south did more for that than the RFA. You remember the one, cussed like a sailor and looks like one too. Called you many names publicly. But, she's still on the case like puss on a zit. Y'all? Considering the slough isn't open, where is the RFA currently involved?

Inshore live bait issue?? Come on Tom, even your evil, blood spewing CCA nemesis was against bad science on that one. Regarding, #5-7, I don't know as I'm about ready to hit the sack. I'll check in tomorrow if I get a chance or let someone else address that.

Tom and Jim and Jim Donofrio, I welcome your sales pitch, the contrary opinion of your product from others, and the vote of RFA Texas' product; The verdict of two of three well respected men of our offshore community. Anyone else want to join my offer to the RFA, how about $100, $50, $1000? My money is spoken for, either to the RFA or a college fund for one of ours. Despite Mr. Hiltons pitch, I'm not convinced. Keep selling me..-Tom Pattillo


Tom Hilton said:


> Mr. Patillo,
> You're welcome!
> 
> The 7 examples are not suits filed, but are tangible RESULTS of RFA's ACTIONS. If Mont decides to do anything other than write the check to RFA, then I guess you have at least abdicated responsibility on the matter.
> ...


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## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

Patillo, I don't know you but I am curious to know what you have done for offshore fishing in Texas? Your $500 challenge is a pittance compared to what the RFA membership from this board alone have contributed. From your posts, I take it you are a diehard CCA man... but enlighten us on what they have done regarding commercial offshore drop fishing in Texas. Tell us how they should be allowed a 51% allocation and why CCA has not, to my knowledge, fought for Rec's regarding that allocation. Why is CCA OK with a 1 fish limit, whereby, most will most likely kill 10 or 20 fish to get that ONE? What is your method to solve these problems? If you don't have a solution... why are you bagging on people fighting to create one?

Nothing personal... just wondering where you are coming from.


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## kinja (May 21, 2004)

My question wasn't about what I've done Haute Pursuit. I frankly just don't think the RFA has the political stroke to help us here although I hope I'm wrong. HP, I'm not bagging on anyone. Although my personal feelings for some of the leaders are not the highest, I do think they are intelligent, caring people, and I don't necessarily disagree about the commercial sector points. I don't think they have the political pull in this situation or any others. Its rarely been about their solution. Rather its about who sold them out, or who lied to them or what government official flip flopped on a promise. That's politics at its highest level. A successful group learns to navigate these perilious waters to get things done. Certainly it sucks, but that's the name of the game. We are a results driven society, show me some past results that benefit the offshore Texas angler. I wish I had a million dollar challenge. This poor cowboy can only afford a little at this time. My hope is that my pittance will go to a good cause, the RFA or others.-Tom Pattillo



Haute Pursuit said:


> Patillo, I don't know you but I am curious to know what you have done for offshore fishing in Texas? Your $500 challenge is a pittance compared to what the RFA membership from this board alone have contributed. From your posts, I take it you are a diehard CCA man... but enlighten us on what they have done regarding commercial offshore drop fishing in Texas. Tell us how they should be allowed a 51% allocation and why CCA has not, to my knowledge, fought for Rec's regarding that allocation. Why is CCA OK with a 1 fish limit, whereby, most will most likely kill 10 or 20 fish to get that ONE? What is your method to solve these problems? If you don't have a solution... why are you bagging on people fighting to create one?
> 
> Nothing personal... just wondering where you are coming from.


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## manintheboat (Jun 1, 2004)

Let us assume you are right for a moment, Tom. If RFA does not have the political pull to win this fight for recreational fishermen and we are just spinning our wheels, just what other option do we have? There is nobody else out there fighting for us. 

There is another organization out there that COULD help. They are very large, very well funded and wired in politically. This organization could be a huge asset. The problem is that they are turning their back on the recreational fisherman. I would guess that a lot of RFA members are also members of this organization as well. Maybe we need to start hammering on these people instead of sending letters to NMFS and our government representatives. Maybe if they realize that they are alienating their membership that they will do an about face. Then again, maybe not. 

Who knows, this might be the turning point for this org. Perhaps one day, it will be RFA that is the largest and most widely known organization involved in fishery matters and we will all wonder what happened to that group that once saved red drum but thanks to hubris and ignorance lost their way. 

As for you, Tom, I will say it again. You have no intention on giving one dollar to RFA so save your breath. And your money. And our time.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Wow how did I miss this one ? let me think, hmm

1. The only orginization speaking for the Texas offshore anglers at various NMF's and Advisory meetings. They speak for me !!
2. Meeting with Texas Parks and Wildlife regarding aiding Wardens (and others) enforcing fishing regulations. (Creating a joint task force of law enforcement agencies throughout the State and Gulf together to police over fishing the Gulf.
3. Texas Great Barrier reef program.
4.Trying to get out year around fishing back in Texas greatly benefiting all in Texas.

Patillo, your correct none of this has happened or become a reality but at least someone is speaking for me and the recreational fisherman. Speaking the facts to a lot of deaf ears but by God they are trying. You have a right to your opinion and you are correct at this time nothing has changed but, RFA is there nose to nose with the "ivory tower" folks and fighting for me (and you I believe). They need your support not bashing. Its going to take time because dealing with such a political situation is not easy. I think RFA is beginning to make some impact and getting some attention. Speaking of the CCA I am a member and past two time STAR winner but certainly dissapointed in their position on the Snapper issue. Also dissapointed that much of the "donations" to the CCA are going for unbelieveable salaries. Lots of 000 (zeros) in some. Try backing up and taking another look. 

I have this posted in my office...

"THE ONE WHO SAYS IT CANNOT BE DONE SHOULD NOT STAND IN THE WAY OF THE ONE WHO IS DOING IT "

Charlie


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## Marlintini (Apr 7, 2005)

Patillo - send your money to RFA and get on board !!!


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## wet dreams (May 21, 2004)

Good reply Charlie, I'd love to win some of CCA's money in the tourn and make a nice donation to RFA or the reefing program. I dont get in the STAR to become a member of CCA, and if not for the tourn I for sure would not be a member!! WW


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## Wahoome (Apr 16, 2005)

I've been a member of CCA every year I've been in Texas. In fact I think I'm still current. Up till recently the only thing I've conciously done to maintain my access to coastal fisheries is....well.....nothing. I've recieved quite an education lately on the issues facing what I like to do. What I "like to do" is catch a few red snapper on the way in from deeper water and pelagic species fishing. Recently I found out that I might not be able to do that and that there are powerful groups who don't even want me to hurt the poor fish with a hook. I didn't really know the RFA from hogan's goat until I heard about the Texas Great Barrier Reef Project. I studied up on artificial reefing and convinced _myself_ that this could truly have an impact on what I "like to do". I didn't take Tom's or Jim's word for it. I researched it to my own satisfaction. I went back to the CCA's record on this issue and see that they continue to bash the shrimpers (fruitless effort) and support the length limits that make me kill lot's of fish that I'd just as soon keep and go on in. So I'm putting my money, time and effort on what I believe will solve the problem. That's it. I don't care what you did yesterday. I don't care who you're married to. What can you do for me right now to help me do what I "like to do"? I'm just selfish that way. The RFA and the TGBR are the best vehicle for me right now. I'm all ears for a better idea so Mr. Pattillo the ball's back in your court. What should we, as avid snapper fisherman, do?

I have not heard anyone in RFA bash CCA members, leaders yes, members no, that would be bashing me at the moment. I might even continue to be a member of both depending on what I see them do. I do think staying with the status quo has brought us to this point so when someone I'm paying money to votes to keep it that way I want to know. Maybe Jim's verbage was a little strong. I think that's just passion, the kind of passion you need to stay in the fight when you're not getting paid. RFA is an advocacy group that's not really supposed to build anything. It's kind of like asking "what's the Secret Service done for the President lately". Who knows how many attempts they've thwarted just by taking the measures they take but, it's kind of hard to prove a negative. The TGBR is going to change that. So if you really want to see an advocacy group produce concrete things......stick around....concrete is a primary reefing material!


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## Ernest (May 21, 2004)

Not to get into this mess, but No 7. is kinda misleading. 

"- RFA filed a lawsuit against the 18" minimum snapper regulation in 2000(which CCA was in favor of) because RFA knew it would be a wholesale slaughter." 

That case was dismissed with no tangible results, right? Nothing happened other than the emergency rule expired according to its own terms, and the case was dismissed. 

Lets get serious. Any swing D in Texas with a pad, a pen, and the modest filing fee can file a lawsuit. The hard work is in winning it, not filing it.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Ernest

Kinda wondering where you were. Figured this one would bring you out.

Charlie


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## Tom Hilton (May 24, 2004)

*Crawfish Patillo*



Pattillo said:


> Tom Hilton,
> 
> I believe the three gentlemen I mentioned are some of the most intelligent, unbiased, nonjudgemental contributors to this board. Abdication has nothing to do with it. Fairness is the name of the game here. As a matter of fact, I only believe Mr. Stout could pick me out of a lineup of men. That being said, view this as a sales presentation for the RFA.
> 
> ...


Pattillo, I think it's time for you to change your handle again - this time I think Crawfish is appropriate...crawfishing around the facts so that you don't have to live up to your commitment. Crawfishing by giving the responsibility of payment to other 3rd parties...etc. etc.
Here are the 7 points once again;
1) I was in the room when Smarr suggested to Coastal Fisheries that they require the same 4 fish limit for ALL anglers in state waters. They did so, and have busted some commercial boats fishing illegally in Texas State waters since that meeting. This effectively eliminates commercial fishing in State Waters. *So, you are calling me a liar here - I guess that since you were not at that meeting, that you of course know more than we do. You are free to call Dr. McKinney if you wish, as he was there also.*
2) RFA sued TPWD over the No Motor Zone designation near the Land Cut and 9 Mile Hole - TPWD made a deal removing this designation due directly to RFA's efforts. *You forgot one very important part of the equation - the fishermen...(oh yeah, those guys) that's why is was done.*
3) RFA sued TPWD, USFW, and other agencies over the Cedar Bayou/Vinson Slough issue caused by one of CCA'S prominent supporters. RFA cut a deal with the GLO regarding getting funding for the project and partnering up as the lead agency in charge of the project. They are committed to seeing the project thru completion, which is well underway and WILL be completed. *Patillo, it is being done - what else do you want? Quit whining.*
4) RFA saved the live bait fishery when a state senator introduced a bill outlawing the use of live bait by lobbying the committee chairs and others to make sure it died in committee. *CCA may have been against it, but RFA gotrdone (which is what you were asking, wasn't it?)*
5) RFA worked hard with the NMFS to get the longliners moved out past the 50 fathom curve which had a tremendous impact in reducing mortality of sow snapper on the mud flats inside the 50 F curve. *Not disputable - where was CCA? *
6) RFA pushed hard for longline studies inside the 50 F curve when the numbers of sow snapper disappeared (due to #5 above) off of the stock assessment skewing the numbers to indicate overfishing. Once the longline studies came in, it showed a large biomass of sow snapper which helped the numbers indicate that overfishing was not occuring. *Not disputable - where was CCA? *
7) RFA filed a lawsuit against the 18" minimum snapper regulation in 2000(which CCA was in favor of) because RFA knew it would be a wholesale slaughter. Judge Head admonished CCA's Mr. Hayes saying as a matter of record in a federal court; "Mr. Hayes, aren't you on the wrong side of this lawsuit? Isn't CCA supposed to be a conservation organization?" Mr. Hayes had no reply to the Judge, by the way. *Not disputable - where was CCA? *
*Oh yeah, they were fighting FOR the 80% mortality associated with the 18" debacle - to quote the Judge; "Isn't CCA supposed to be a conservation organization?" What a joke. Ernest, again, it is a matter of record in a federal court what the Judge said to Mr. Hayes - that is an indictment in itself.*

You asked for 2 points Patillo - I gave you 350% of what you asked for yet you are still not convinced. Not surprising really.

Charlie - thanks for weighing in. I believe #1 in your post has already happened however- the RFA has in the past and is currently attending the meetings and speaking up for all recreational fishermen. Dr. Russell, spokesperson for the CCA, simply gets up and repeats the CCA mantra about shrimp bycatch. CCA is for IFQ's. CCA doesn't want to address the commercial overfishing. CCA is OK with not revising the Magnuson while we have a chance to do something for the rec fishermen. All of the above is lock-step with the enviros, and NOT in the interests of recreational fishermen.

The Texas Great Barrier Reef WILL be the biggest thing done for Texas coastal fishermen and communities in our lifetimes, and who is making it happen? *The RFA.*

Sincerely,
Tom Hilton
RFA-Texas Boardmember


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## kinja (May 21, 2004)

Manintheboat, If you knew me a little you would know that I have every intention of writing that check this morning. Still looking for two tangible results though. As I said earlier, I don't think the RFA is a bad organization. Quite the contrary. However, the organizational effort has not been able to crack the political code to date. I don't see it happening on the snapper issue either. Hey, I hope I'm wrong but wanted a little more discourse on the subject rather than the usual CCASOB.org discussion.

Tom Hilton, I gotta go pee and recoffee. My claws are going to make it hard to hold my willie though. Do crawfish have willies? Yo' crawfish friend-Tom Pattilo


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## Ernest (May 21, 2004)

Tom, thats not what is considered an indictment. Its a remark by a Judge, just like thousands of others made each and every day in this country, that don't mean jack. 

More specifically, did the lawsuit achieve any tangible results? No, it was dismissed. 

Did it even change CCA's stand? No. 

Were there any rulings on the law or the facts that could be used later in a subsequent lawsuit? No, once again, nothing, zero, nada. 

Why would anyone (much less an officer of RFA) use this lawsuit as an example of a sucess or a tangible result? 

Now thats a much better question, and while I have my thought$ on the topic, I will keep them to my$elf.


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## manintheboat (Jun 1, 2004)

No, I don't know you, so if you will forgive me, I mistook your offer as grandstanding. You seem to have ignored everything responded to you so what is the point in talking any further on this with you. The bottom line is that RFA is the only org fighting for the recreational fisherman. Why can't you comprehend that? You know, at the end of it all, they might lose. Is that a reason to not support them? I would say that is all the more reason to send money. They need our help.


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## kinja (May 21, 2004)

By god, crawfish do have willies, albeit crawfish sized willies! Tom, unlike some, I won't call anyone a liar, nor impune their character in a public forum. Check is written, I'm sending Monty a quick email to get his buyin to handle the sending of the check. Assuming I'm wrong and RFA gets the money, do I get a cool sticker for my truck?

Tom, remember I'm not part of deciding if the two results are sufficient to trigger the payment. All I do is write the check pardner. I bet you cannot argue with the judges character though. Heck, I might just join the RFA anyway. 

I do want to see the RFA Texas PR folks move away from the democratic party platform though. You know the one where you get on a stump and tell all sorts of stuff about how bad the other guy is, that he has doo doo stripes in his shorts and likes having sex with commercial fishing guys while listening to Walter Fondren sing moon river as he's trying to hire a child **** finatic to handle their bidding. Public discourse is good, as is organizational shakeups now and then. But in the end, results really matter too.-Tom Pattillo


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## zihuatanejo (Jun 29, 2004)

*The way things work....*

Ernest, As far as the lawsuit goes, it is sometimes nothing more than a shot across the bow in order to get the attention of you opponent. As I see it we have done a good job...otherwise guys like yourself and Portabello would not be in here kicking around for cca. Let me make something very clear, we are not a bunch of lapdog, prettyboy stuffed suits...we may be a little rough around the edges and play the game a little different than the past status quo but I can assure you that this lean dog has a lot of fight left in him!! If I try to make any sense of the rhetoric that has been posted here by the dissenting it seems to imply that we should trust cca and not fight at all, let me just say that that will not be the case my friend. We may lose a few battles along the way but as I said before "we will fight" and I am sure that there are countless numbers of fishermen and women who will fight with us. Jim,Tom and I were at the TPWD meeting a few weeks ago speaking on behalf of The RFA and Texas fisherman/women, cca was not there, we were thinking ahead my friend just in case the feds dump on us as usual...the "other" option to have some sort of snapper fishery is to have one in state waters effectively off limits to the commercials and the feds. Again...cca was not present.


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## texasjellyfish (Jan 23, 2006)

QUOTE=Pattillo]Haute Pursuit and Manintheboat. Great job in giving me two results as opposed to excuses. As we all know, the road to hell was paved with good intentions. I tell you what, I will be mailing a $500 cashier's check to ],,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,There is nothing worse than listen to someone bragg about their finacials.
In todays world 500 bukz 
can barely buy you a bucket of this .........


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## Tom Hilton (May 24, 2004)

*cca*



Ernest said:


> Tom, thats not what is considered an indictment. Its a remark by a Judge, just like thousands of others made each and every day in this country, that don't mean jack.
> More specifically, did the lawsuit achieve any tangible results? No, it was dismissed.
> Did it even change CCA's stand? No.
> Were there any rulings on the law or the facts that could be used later in a subsequent lawsuit? No, once again, nothing, zero, nada.
> ...


Ernest,
*"Its a remark by a Judge, just like thousands of others made each and every day in this country, that don't mean jack." *I believe Judge Head may have a different perspective than yours on this subject. He also said at that time that if he ever saw CCA back in his courtroom with such shenanigans, *THEN HE WILL BREAK BONES.* He dismissed the case because there were just a few days left in the season. Did it change CCA's stand? It should have. You and Crawfish are just CCA hacks, plain and simple - it's good to see that you are finally coming "out of the closet" though.

Judge Head just may be seeing Mr. Hayes again very soon - I plan to be there when and if that happens. I believe what he says DOES mean jack.

Crawfish, if you are judging by results on these issues, the CCA gets a *F*. We are actively working for results at the state and national levels whether or not you acknowledge it. And yes, the $500 will get you a RFA membership and sticker.

Tom Hilton
RFA-Texas Boardmember


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## kinja (May 21, 2004)

Boy you got that right Jelly. If it can't buy a bucket of anything, then how is it bragging? Wish I could brag, but I'm just a poor cowboy living paycheck to boat mechanic.-Tom


texasjellyfish said:


> QUOTE=Pattillo]Haute Pursuit and Manintheboat. Great job in giving me two results as opposed to excuses. As we all know, the road to hell was paved with good intentions. I tell you what, I will be mailing a $500 cashier's check to ],,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,There is nothing worse than listen to someone bragg about their finacials.
> In todays world 500 bukz
> can barely buy you a bucket of this .........


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## texasjellyfish (Jan 23, 2006)

Judging from the text in your posts , it seems they just about all have one thing in common : money, checks, cashiers check, 500 dollars, 50 dollars , etc........ 
Ya aint got it , but your gonna spend it



Pattillo said:


> Boy you got that right Jelly. If it can't buy a bucket of anything, then how is it bragging? Wish I could brag, but I'm just a poor cowboy living paycheck to boat mechanic.-Tom


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## zihuatanejo (Jun 29, 2004)

"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce and brave man, hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."
_- 'Mark Twain' _


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## Ernest (May 21, 2004)

Tom: 

Let's not forget the bottom line - you know - where the results come into play - RFA will not be suing CCA. 

So any anti-CCA bias or disposition of a Judge is meaningless. Thus, No. 7 is all just a red herring, right? 

Plus, would not these anti-CCA statements be used to attempt to recuse the Judge (assuming CCA was a litigant) under that whole impartial justice concept? 

Why would an officer of RFA choose not to under$tand or accept thi$ $imple reality?


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## Pubguy (Oct 15, 2005)

I have read this whole thread and have a comment to add. If I knew nothing about fishing and just read this thread out of curiosity, I would line up behind Patillo because of his approach. He issued a challenge, including taking his personal feelings out of deciding the results by putting three other respected men in charge of the final vote, and was immediately questioned about his organizational membership, what he has done about the issue himself, his financial arrogance, his moral character, his manhood, his... you get the picture. I think that, whether it was Patillo's intention or not, he has given the RFA a platform for an infomercial to thousands of fisherman. It was a golden opportunity missed! I would think a great response would have been...Howdy Mr. Patillo and thanks for the question. What we at RFA have done is XYZ. What we are working on for the future is XYZ. Instead we were treated to a CCA did this and CCA did that. Oh and btw, why did you change your handle and you are a crustacean, etc. I believe I will still support the RFA because of their efforts in snapper regs. and the barrier reef project. I will also be watching and reading to see if these are the kinds of people that deserve my support in the future. C'mon RFA. Keep up the good work and take the high road for a change.


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## Tom Hilton (May 24, 2004)

Pubguy said:


> I have read this whole thread and have a comment to add. If I knew nothing about fishing and just read this thread out of curiosity, I would line up behind Patillo because of his approach. He issued a challenge, including taking his personal feelings out of deciding the results by putting three other respected men in charge of the final vote, and was immediately questioned about his organizational membership, what he has done about the issue himself, his financial arrogance, his moral character, his manhood, his... you get the picture. I think that, whether it was Patillo's intention or not, he has given the RFA a platform for an infomercial to thousands of fisherman. It was a golden opportunity missed! I would think a great response would have been...Howdy Mr. Patillo and thanks for the question. What we at RFA have done is XYZ. What we are working on for the future is XYZ. Instead we were treated to a CCA did this and CCA did that. Oh and btw, why did you change your handle and you are a crustacean, etc. I believe I will still support the RFA because of their efforts in snapper regs. and the barrier reef project. I will also be watching and reading to see if these are the kinds of people that deserve my support in the future. C'mon RFA. Keep up the good work and take the high road for a change.


Pubguy,
I guess you missed this post - The facts were presented and there was no CCA bashing here - just what is on the table; Mr. Patillo had about 5 or 6 posts prior to my response saying RFA didn't do this, or didn't do that, and begging for someone to show him what RFA has accomplished, so be fair about it Pubguy. The subsequent posts are in reference to Mr. Patillo's refusal to acknowledge the obvious, and his crawfishing to avoid doing what he pledged to do.

Tom,
First, you need to cool down here. Smarr is doing his best to keep everyone informed as to what is really going on, and has gone the extra yard in a sincere effort to help save the recreational fishery from collapse. Mr. Smarr has done everything he has with a laptop and a cell phone, and doesn't have a $3 million HQ to work out of. I've gone on this forum several times in the past and asked CCA members (anyone affiliated with CCA, including Walter Fondren, Pat Murray, etc.) to please join the dialogue and explain CCA's position on the snapper, shrimper bycatch issue, and illegal commercial overfishing. Guess what? Not one person replied - NOT ONE, including you Mr. Patillo. Now I know why. It was explained by the Chair of the Fisheries Committee; Mr. Pombo (and Mr. Saxton who is also on the Fisheries Comm) explained that CCA and ASA wanted to go with the staus quo on the Magnuson which basically guts the recreational fishery. The CCA also championed IFQ's. That's the Reader's Digest version, but the enviros and CCA are on exactly the same page here. More will be coming regarding this issue, so don't take my word for it - time will tell.

Now, regarding your statement that RFA has accomplished NOTHING to tangibly benefit Texas and Western Gulf anglers; 
1) I was in the room when Smarr suggested to Coastal Fisheries that they require the same 4 fish limit for ALL anglers in state waters. They did so, and have busted some commercial boats fishing illegally in Texas State waters since that meeting. This effectively eliminates commercial fishing in State Waters.
2) RFA sued TPWD over the No Motor Zone designation near the Land Cut and 9 Mile Hole - TPWD made a deal removing this designation due directlt to RFA's efforts.
3) RFA sued TPWD, USFW, and other agencies over the Cedar Bayou/Vinson Slough issue caused by one of CCA'S prominent supporters. RFA cut a deal with the GLO regarding getting funding for the project and partnering up as the lead agency in charge of the project. They are committed to seeing the project thru completion, which is well underway and WILL be completed.
4) RFA saved the live bait fishery when a state senator introduced a bill outlawing the use of live bait by lobbying the committee chairs and others to make sure it died in committee.
5) RFA worked hard with the NMFS to get the longliners moved out past the 50 fathom curve which had a tremendous impact in reducing mortality of sow snapper on the mud flats inside the 50 F curve.
6) RFA pushed hard for longline studies inside the 50 F curve when the numbers of sow snapper disappeared (due to #5 above) off of the stock assessment skewing the numbers to indicate overfishing. Once the longline studies came in, it showed a large biomass of sow snapper which helped the numbers indicate that overfishing was not occuring.
7) RFA filed a lawsuit against the 18" minimum snapper regulation in 2000(which CCA was in favor of) because RFA knew it would be a wholesale slaughter. Judge Head admonished CCA's Mr. Hayes saying as a matter of record in a federal court; "Mr. Hayes, aren't you on the wrong side of this lawsuit? Isn't CCA supposed to be a conservation organization?" Mr. Hayes had no reply to the Judge, by the way.

There's more, but you only asked for 2 examples.

Mr. Patillo, make the $500 check payable to the RFA-Texas, 1890 Ranch Rd 1, Stonewall, TX 78671.

All the best,
Tom Hilton
RFA Texas Boardmember


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## James Howell (May 21, 2004)

This whole argument has been pretty **** poor for all involved.


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## chuck richey (May 22, 2004)

I agree with James. It is gonna be a long long winter if this keeps up.


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## Tom Hilton (May 24, 2004)

*this post*

James,
You're right. It's time for it to be put to bed and move on to constructive activities.

Mont? Charlie? John Stout?

All the best,
Tom Hilton


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## Pubguy (Oct 15, 2005)

(quote) Pubguy,
I guess you missed this post - The facts were presented and there was *no* *CCA bashing here* - just what is on the table; The subsequent posts are in reference to Mr. Patillo's refusal to acknowledge the obvious.

Tom,
First, you need to cool down here. Smarr is doing his best to keep everyone informed as to what is really going on, and has gone the extra yard in a sincere effort to help save the recreational fishery from collapse. Mr. Smarr has done everything he has with a laptop and a cell phone, and doesn't have a $3 million HQ to work out of. I've gone on this forum several times in the past and asked *CCA* members (anyone affiliated with *CCA*, including Walter Fondren, Pat Murray, etc.) to please join the dialogue and explain *CCA's *position on the snapper, shrimper bycatch issue, and illegal commercial overfishing. Guess what? Not one person replied - NOT ONE, including you Mr. Patillo. Now I know why. It was explained by the Chair of the Fisheries Committee; Mr. Pombo (and Mr. Saxton who is also on the Fisheries Comm) explained that *CCA* and ASA wanted to go with the staus quo on the Magnuson which basically guts the recreational fishery. The *CCA* also championed IFQ's. That's the Reader's Digest version, but the enviros and *CCA* are on exactly the same page here. More will be coming regarding this issue, so don't take my word for it - time will tell. (quote)

You are kidding right?

I am not defending the CCA. Not a member for any reason other than the star tourney.


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## zihuatanejo (Jun 29, 2004)

Touche.....

"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce and brave man, hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."
_- 'Mark Twain' _


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Pubguy

I tried to do that the best I could.

Charlie


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## Pubguy (Oct 15, 2005)

CHARLIE said:


> Pubguy
> 
> I tried to do that the best I could.
> 
> Charlie


(just reread your post) I would say that you did. Good job.


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## Tom Hilton (May 24, 2004)

*cca*

Pubguy,
Enough is enough. I do not plan to discuss CCA's actions or inactions any further - they have taken on enough rope themselves.

I will focus on what we at RFA are doing and plan to achieve. Right now, RFA currently supports more flexibility than other .orgs and environmental groups in that we believe that fishermen can have access while simultaneously promoting conservation. They are not mutually exclusive. In other words, we can rebuild the snapper stocks without shutting down the fishery, which is where this is heading.

All the best,
Tom Hilton
RFA-Texas Boardmember


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## trashcanslam (Mar 7, 2006)

i went to rfa.org and all I got was a coalition for radio free asia, what do they have to do with snapper fishing? they're probably more interested in commercial fishing

lord i apologize


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## texasjellyfish (Jan 23, 2006)

*try*

http://www.rfatexas.org/


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## gulf_addict (Aug 26, 2005)

It took me 2 days but I have finally gotten to the end of this post. After reading all of this, I offer my humble opinion, which, with it and $1.09 you can get a coke.
1. Perception - if someone perceives that something WAS or WAS NOT accomplished then that is their take on the matter. Different views beget different PERCETIONS.

2. Can't remember who made the post, but it was about supporting because it is "what they like to do, which is fish." This is really the bottom line and something does need to be done be it by RFA or CCA or whomever. If nothing is done, we will all not be able to do "what we like to do."

3. Pubguy eluded to addressing this issue in a different manner between the concerned parties. Sounded like a great idea to me, the ole "you'll attract more bees with honey than vinegar" deal.

I am a current member of CCA because of the STAR tourney. What are the possibilities of the RFA going after the sponsors and vendors of the current CCA tourney and stealing the show? I do agree that shake-ups are sometimes good and this would be one extreme shake-up and way to get more people to look at RFA. I myself was not aware of the goings on of the RFA until after I read this post and visited the website. These are just some observations and opinions from the outside looking in. Thank you, RC


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## jlatigo (Aug 4, 2006)

gulf_addict said:


> It took me 2 days but I have finally gotten to the end of this post. After reading all of this, I offer my humble opinion, which, with it and $1.09 you can get a coke.
> 1. Perception - if someone perceives that something WAS or WAS NOT accomplished then that is their take on the matter. Different views beget different PERCETIONS.
> 
> 2. Can't remember who made the post, but it was about supporting because it is "what they like to do, which is fish." This is really the bottom line and something does need to be done be it by RFA or CCA or whomever. If nothing is done, we will all not be able to do "what we like to do."
> ...


what he said!


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## Capt Chad (May 1, 2006)

I feel the RFA has done and done very well is just be in the room. If you know politics you know that just by being in the room you can stop or change something. Prior to you saying it I understand its hard to measure. I also would say you cant in good faith deny it. 

I feel this qualifies under your terms and conditions. 

I feel #7 is an example of this. If the RFA did not file the suit it is reasonable to assume that the 18" limit would have gone through. 

I dont know if the RFA will win the war but they have won some battles.


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## Argo (May 21, 2004)

RFA member here too. At least they are putting forth the effort to try for us. Most of us dont/cant take the time to do it. I chose not to get into this thread because I have seen Patillo go after Hilton for quite a 5-6 years now, guess they arent best of friends. Anything that Hilton is involved in seems to get slammed by him. oh well


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## Tom Hilton (May 24, 2004)

*rfa*

Howdy,
RFA-Texas is planning a large tournament format, which is in the formative stages. The monies garnered will be allocated to artificial reefs, lobbying, and other purposes dedicated to enhancing fishing opportunities for Texas fishermen.

All the best,
Tom Hilton
RFA-Texas Boardmember


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## Ernest (May 21, 2004)

Capt. Chad- the 18 inch rule was an emergency rule implimented by the regulators a few years back in the middle of the season. The rule went into effect. 

RFA sued to challenge the rule. The rule lapsed by its own terms (it was only a temporary rule, not permanent). 

The RFA lawsuit was dismissed. The Court never ruled on the merits of the lawsuit, and the lawsuit does not prevent any future emergency rules or even the return of an 18 inch min. size requirement (as a perm. or temp. rule). 

In light of the above, thats why there is debate as to whether the mere filing of a lawsuit is an accomplishment (or not) by RFA.


----------



## zihuatanejo (Jun 29, 2004)

*the rest*

The Judge said he would not shut down the season and hurt the already suffering businesses in the coastal communities, he also did say that if he saw those boys in his court again he would "break bones"...



Ernest said:


> Capt. Chad- the 18 inch rule was an emergency rule implimented by the regulators a few years back in the middle of the season. The rule went into effect.
> 
> RFA sued to challenge the rule. The rule lapsed by its own terms (it was only a temporary rule, not permanent).
> 
> ...


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## tngbmt (May 30, 2004)

> The Judge said he would not shut down the season and hurt the already suffering businesses in the coastal communities


 so RFA ask for the season to be shut down and he dismissed the case to keep it open? sorry, i'm new and still confused.


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## Tom Hilton (May 24, 2004)

*rfa*



Ernest said:


> Capt. Chad- the 18 inch rule was an emergency rule implimented by the regulators a few years back in the middle of the season. The rule went into effect.
> RFA sued to challenge the rule. The rule lapsed by its own terms (it was only a temporary rule, not permanent).
> The RFA lawsuit was dismissed. The Court never ruled on the merits of the lawsuit, and the lawsuit does not prevent any future emergency rules or even the return of an 18 inch min. size requirement (as a perm. or temp. rule).
> In light of the above, thats why there is debate as to whether the mere filing of a lawsuit is an accomplishment (or not) by RFA.


This reminds me of Clinton's famous quote; "It depends on what the meaning of the word "is" is". The point is what side of the issue the players were on - I'm proud to say that the RFA was on the side against the 18" rule, which turned out to be the correct side.

All the best,
Tom Hilton 
RFA-Texas Boardmember


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## Capt Chad (May 1, 2006)

Well my main point is just by being in the room they have stoped/changed things for the good. 

I dont think you can deny that.


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## speckle-catcher (May 20, 2004)

maybe - but "is" that an accomplishment?


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## Wahoome (Apr 16, 2005)

Cheese and Rice! Bottom line. If you care about snapper, which is what we're talking about here, who do you think has the better plan? I've yet to see a position advocated by anyone else except increased restrictions on us, which I think we all agree, is a downward spiral. I'm all ears for a better plan. Right now the best thing I've heard is a mile wide reefing corridor the length of the state of Texas. It addresses bycatch and habitat without ******* anyone off or putting anyone out of work. Frankly I would love to see the resources that CCA has at it's disposal used on Red Snapper the way they were used on Redfish. I'm still paid up. Show me something and I'll pay again. Redfish are doing fine and they don't need my help anymore.

And Pontillo needs to write that check!


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## Capt Chad (May 1, 2006)

I feel it is a huge accomplishment. If I went to the meeting they would do just what they wanted. If the RFA is there things are different. It the same for the CCA. That is politics. It is an accomplishment to have the power to change by your presence. 

It is the same for people that work for you they will do/act correctly when the boss is there but not when they are not. If you dont have anyone that works for you then look at how you do/act when the boss is aroung and when he is not. 

The accomplishment is POWER!!! 

That has to meet the terms set forth.


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## Tom Hilton (May 24, 2004)

*Rfa*



speckle-catcher said:


> maybe - but "is" that an accomplishment?


Yes, speckle-catcher. Standing up for the rights of fishermen and the fish themselves IS an accomplishment. The 18" rule was a ecological disaster and it was contrary to any environmental or conservation principles. The people supporting the 18" minimum did more damage to the fishery than I can explain here.

All the best,
Tom Hilton
RFA-Texas Boardmember


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## zihuatanejo (Jun 29, 2004)

Judge Head got sick of the FEDS delaying the court date to the point that he said he would subpoena Janet Reno and hold the hearing if they were not in his court asap. Mind you, Judge Head could have waited and let the season end and not done a darned thing....BUT he wanted his his thoughts regarding the matter to go on record. This well respected South Texas Judge stood firm and got his way and his thoughts did go on record...he put the Feds and their buddies on notice! The season expired only because he allowed it to expire but he did not just let it all slide!! He felt the need to make a statement and he did just that!!


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## Capt Chad (May 1, 2006)

Accomplishment #2 Awareness-



I for one had no clue on several issues.



Prior to meeting Smarr and Hilton I:



had issues with the CCA. I don't care to bash them and don't care for other doing the same but I do like when facts are put in front of me and I can make my opinion.



had no idea about the TGBR 



had no clue of some of the players and how to contact them



had no clue how some of the process worked



You have to admit that awareness is key to success and the RRF has accomplished that. I will bet I am not the only one they have made aware of this and a number other items on such an important issue.


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## Spots and Dots (May 23, 2004)

I don't know most of you, but do know Patillo well. If all of the folks that posted in this thread put as much effort into resolving the snapper problems, or flounder problems, or whatever, as you have putting you remarks into this thread great things could happen.

It is dissapointing to see a man get ridiculed for offering up a donation, too. It shouldn't matter to any of you if Patillo sleeps in a ditch, or has shown his house on Cribs. He offered $500 and will make good on it if deemed to be made good by men that should be impartial.

Patillo does come clean on bets, too! We'll be uncorking a ni$e bottle of wine soon in celebration of something........



Come on fellas, Get off your ahses and support something whole heartedly. It doesn't make sense to bash another for asking and offering.


my $0.02


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## wacker (Mar 22, 2006)

4409 VEIWS! If everyone spent as much time sending letters or simply educating themselves on the issue of fishery managment as reading this stupid wrong way thread I whould have a reef in my back yard. I bet PETA and the comms don't bicker Like a bunch of girly girls! Some of you have missed the point, It's about the fish and our freedom not what hapened yesterday. Please take a moment to pray for good weather so I can fish and I will gladly except cash donations for gas.


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## jim smarr (May 21, 2004)

Wacker your right. I have been on the phone with Congress all day. Ron Paul has a letter and needs all Texas Congressmen and the Two Senators to sign off on. The request would put a hold on the emergency rule that would/could shut down our fishery.
We really need the entire Texas Delegation behind this effort.

Pleas Call your elected Officials and ask them to support Dr. Pauls action on Red Snapper. Tom Lizardo is the contact person for the Members to call to join this effort in Congressman Pauls Office.


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## WT427 (May 20, 2004)

Which office, Jim? http://www.house.gov/paul/

http://hutchison.senate.gov/

http://cornyn.senate.gov/


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## jim smarr (May 21, 2004)

Ron Paul is asking for other Members of Congress to join him in his efforts to stop the NMFS Emergency Rule that could shut down the Red Snapper Fishery. We need phone calls as it is to late for the mail. Many people from across Texas read this board. We need anyone reading this to call their Congressman. 

We have forwarded this request to friends all across the Gulf of Mexico. We need a grass roots effort to keep our fishery open. We have until Lunch Thursday to get everyone behind this effort. Keep your fingers crossed.


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## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

Is their a bill number or anything else we can use for reference when we call or email?


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## Wahoome (Apr 16, 2005)

How about an example letter that we can cut and paste into an email too? At least some talking points?


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## zihuatanejo (Jun 29, 2004)

We are trying to get Congressmen to sign on in support to a letter from Ron Paul to stop an emergency ruling and allow the data to be delivered so that the state of the fishery can truly be evaluated...otherwise CCA has said they would support an emergency ruling which would likely be 1 fish and a 2 month season. The letter is going to Dick Pombo of California who is chair of the House Committee on Resources or in other words someone who can order NMFS to do certain things...Like wait as RFA had the council members vote for in Louisiana. So if you have a connection to a Senator or Member of Congress here in Texas let Tom, Jim or myself know and we will work it out. Ron Paul and his cheif of staff have spearheaded this effort but we need more support and need it quick as "someone" has pulled a fast one.

You can also call your or any (they don't have to be from Texas)Congessman's office and ask that he/she support the letter drafted by Ron Paul to delay an emergency Red Snapper Rule from the NMFS and allow the data to be delivered in the next few months. They can speak with Tom Lizardo at Ron Paul's office to offer their support.

We need to act quickly on this one. Thanks Ya'll!!!



Haute Pursuit said:


> Is their a bill number or anything else we can use for reference when we call or email?


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## wacker (Mar 22, 2006)

Ditto....Little help for us simple minded folks.


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## tngbmt (May 30, 2004)

http://www.house.gov/poe/writeyourrep.htm
and this is ted poe's for 2nd district


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## Wahoome (Apr 16, 2005)

Ron Paul IS my congressman so I sent emails to Senator's Hutchison and Cornyn asking them to contact Ron Paul and support his efforts to to stop the NMFS Emergency Rule that could shut down the Red Snapper Fishery. I said the NMFS has mismanaged the Red Snapper fishery into a crisis and it's time for some Congressional/Senate oversight before this emergency rule affects Texas coastal communities in a very negative way. Senator Ron Paul is leading the charge on this issue and will certainly have my vote. I also sent Ron Paul a ra ra go get'em letter too.


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## Tom Hilton (May 24, 2004)

*senators*

*John Cornyn,* - (R - TX)

517 HART SENATE OFFICE BUILDING WASHINGTON DC 20510

(202) 224-2934

Web Form: cornyn.senate.gov/contact/index.html

*Kay Bailey Hutchison,* - (R - TX)

284 RUSSELL SENATE OFFICE BUILDING WASHINGTON DC 20510

(202) 224-5922 Web Form: hutchison.senate.gov/e-mail.htm

*Texas Representatives

Joe Barton,* Texas, 6th

Washington Office 2109 Rayburn Building Washington, DC 20515

(202) 225-2002 (202) 225-3052 fax

http://joebarton.house.gov/contact.asp?CheckGUID=f062bf53-18bd-40e0-b99e f234b57ae9fd

*Henry Bonilla,* Texas, 23rd

Washington, DC Office 2458 Rayburn House Office Building Washington, DC 20515

(202) 225-4511 (202) 225-2237 fax

*Kevin Brady,* Texas, 8th

428 Cannon Building Washington, DC 20515

Phone: (202)225-4901 Fax: (202)225-5524

Email: [email protected]

*Michael Burgess,* Texas, 26th

WASHINGTON, DC OFFICE

1721 Longworth House Office Building Washington, DC 20515

(202) 225-7772

*John Carter,* Texas, 31st

Washington, D.C. Office 408 CHOB Washington, D.C. 20515

(202) 225-3864

*K. Michael Conaway, Texas*, 11th Washington, D.C. Office

511 Cannon House Office Building Washington, DC 20515

phone: (202) 225-3605 fax: (202) 225-1783

http://conaway.house.gov/IMA/contact.asp

*Henry Cuellar,* Texas, 28th

1404 Longworth House Office Building Washington, DC 20515

phone: 202-225-1640 fax: 202-225-1641

*John Culberson,* Texas, 7th 1728 Longworth House Office Building

Washington, D.C. 20515-4307

Phone: (202) 225-2571 Fax: (202) 225-4381 http://www.culberson.house.gov/contactinfo.aspx

*Lloyd Doggett,* Texas, 25th Washington Office

201 Cannon House Office Bldg. (Independence and 1st Street, SE)

Washington DC 20515

202-225-4865

*Chet Edwards,* Texas, 17th Washington DC Office:

2264 Rayburn Building Washington, D.C. 20515-4311

(202)-225-6105 FAX: (202)-225-0350

http://edwards.house.gov/html/contact_form_email.cfm

*Louie Gohmert,* Texas 1st Washington Office

508 Cannon HOB Washington, DC 20515

(202) 225-3035 (202) 226-1230 fax

*Charlie A.Gonzalez,* Texas, 20th 327 Cannon House Office Building

Washington, DC 20515-4320

Phone: (202)225-3236 Fax: (202)225-1915\http://gonzalez.house.gov/feedback.cfm?campaign=gonzalez&type=Contact%20Me

*Kay Granger,* Texas, 12th Washington DC Office

440 Cannon HOB Washington, DC 20515

Ph. 202-225-5071 Fax 202-225-5683

http://kaygranger.house.gov/contact.asp

*Al Green,* Texas, 9th Washington, DC

1529 Longworth House Office Building Washington, D.C. 20515-4309

Phone: (202) 225-7508 Fax: (202) 225-2947

*Gene Green,* Texas, 29th Washington Office:

2335 Rayburn HOB Washington, DC 20515

(202) 225-1688 tel (202) 225-9903 fax

*Ralph M.Hall,* Texas, 4th 2405 Rayburn HOB

Washington, DC 20515-4304

Phone: 202-225-6673 Fax: 202-225-3332

*Jeb Hensarling,* Texas, 5th Washington, DC Office:

132 Cannon House Office Building Washington, DC 20515

Phone: 202-225-3484 Fax: 202-226-4888

*Rubén Hinojosa,* Texas, 15th Washington Office

U.S. House of Representatives

2463 RayburnHouse Office Building Washington, D.C. 20515

Phone: (202) 225-2531 Fax: (202)225-5688

*Sheila Lee Jackson,* Texas, 18th Washington Office

2435 Rayburn Building Washington, DC 20515

(202) 225-3816 (202) 225-3317 Fax

http://www.jacksonlee.house.gov/feedback.cfm?campaign=jacksonlee&type=Let%27s%20Talk

*Eddie Bernice Johnson,* Texas 30th Washington, D.C

1511 Longworth House Office Building Washington, DC 20515

Phone: (202) 225-8885 Fax: (202) 226-1477

*Sam Johnson,* Texas, 3rd 1211 Longworth Building

Washington, D.C. 20515

(202)225-4201

*Kenny Marchant,* Texas, 24th 501 Cannon House Office Building

Washington, DC 20515

phone: 202-225-6605 fax: 202-225-0074

*Michael T. McCaul,* Texas, 10th 415 Cannon House Office Building

Washington, DC 20515

202-225-2401 202-225-5955 (fax)

*Randy Neugebauer*, Texas, 19th

Washington, D.C. 429 Cannon HOB Washington, DC 20515

Phone: (202) 225-4005 Fax: (202) 225-9615

*Solomon P. Ortiz,* Texas, 27th Washington, D.C.

2470 Rayburn HOB Washington, D.C. 20515

(202) 225-7742 tel (202) 226-1134 fax

http://www.house.gov/formortiz/issue.htm

*Ron Paul,* Texas, 14th Washington, DC:

203 Cannon House Office Building Washington, DC 20515

Phone Number: (202) 225-2831

*Ted Poe, Texas*, 2nd 1605 Longworth HOB Washington, D.C. 20515

202.225.6565 866.425.6565 (toll free) 202.225.5547 (fax)

http://www.house.gov/poe/writeyourrep.htm

*Silvestre Reyes,* Texas, 16th Washington, D.C. Office

2433 Rayburn House Office Building Washington, D.C. 20515

Phone: (202) 225-4831 Fax: (202) 225-2016

http://wwwc.house.gov/reyes/voice_your_opinion.asp

*Pete Sessions,* Texas, 32nd Washington D.C. Office:

Congressman Pete Sessions 1514 Longworth House Bldg.

Washington, DC 20515-4332

(202) 225-2231 (202) 225-5878 fax

http://www.house.gov/sessionsform/emailform.htm

*Lamar Smith,* Texas, 21st Washington D.C. Office

2184 Rayburn House Office Building Washington, DC 20515

202-225-4236 202-225-8628 fax

http://lamarsmith.house.gov/FormCheck.asp

*Mac Thornberry, Texas*, 13th 2457 Rayburn House Office Building

Washington, DC 20515

Phone: (202) 225-3706 Fax: (202) 225-3486


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## Snagged (May 21, 2004)

*Got this from Elliots*

Update on HELP NOW!

I am working closely with Congressman Ron Paul and his Chief of Staff, Tom Lizzardo. He is very much on our side and working hard to resolve the issue. If you contact your congressman, you can ask him to contact Tom at Congressman Ron Paul's office to sign on the the letter below. The congress members call call directly from their Washing DC offices to X-68258 and sign on over the phone.

This will not get done without your help!! Let's over load the phone system!!! This has to be done by Thursday.

Please see below the e-mail sent to congress members and a copy of the letter they are asked to sign. 

Feel free to call me on my cell with any questions at 979-415-4620.

*Again, all you congressman has to do is call X-68258 and sign on to the letter!!*

Please let me know any feed back you get. 

Thanks,
Lari Scott
Vice-President
Capt. Elliott's Party Boats, Inc.
[email protected]
979-233-1811

-----Original Message----- 
*From: * Lizardo, Tom 
*Sent: * Tuesday, September 19, 2006 2:34 PM 
*Subject: * Coastal/Outdoors Issue Letter

*Rep Paul is looking for co-signers for the following DRAFT letter to Chairman Pombo. If you have questions or your boss would like to sign-on please send me a return e-mail by Noon on Thursday. Thanks for your consideration.*

September 22, 2006

Chairman Richard Pombo 
House Committee on Resources 
2411 Rayburn House Office Building 
Washington, DC 20515

Mr. Chairman: 

We are writing today to ask that you immediately take action to look into the National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS) rulemaking activities with regard to the Red Snapper and other coastal fish.

Recently, Mr. Roy Crabtree of NMFS wrote:

"The 2005 red snapper stock assessment indicates overfishing is 


continuing in the red snapper fishery and is likely to compromise the objectives of the red snapper rebuilding plan. The assessment indicates that to end overfishing, mortality rates must be reduced around 74% from the 2001-2003 levels across all fisheries, including the commercial and recreational red snapper fisheries, and the shrimp fishery .

A wide range of management alternatives are under consideration and include reductions in the Total Allowable Catch; reductions in the recreational and commercial quotas, reduced minimum size limits, reduced recreational bag limits, extended seasonal closures, and possible new gear restrictions in the commercial and recreational red snapper fisheries. In addition to these alternatives, measures to cap effort in the shrimp fishery have also been discussed by the Gulf of Mexico Fishery Management Council.



At the August meeting, the Gulf Council voted to delay further 
consideration of regulatory action until January 2007. NMFS is 


reviewing the need for a possible Interim Rule to establish management measures in time for the 2007 season."


Mr. Chairman, In the September/October of_ Tide Magazine_, published by the Coastal conservation Association (CCA), there is an article by CCA's Chairman Walter W. Fondren III. The article points out both the huge economic impact, and the antiquated government data collection system, relative to recreational fishing. In no instance is the data collection problem more evident than with regard to red snapper.

The snapper fishery has been federally managed for several years, we trust you will agree with us that the claim for a sudden need for a 74% reduction in mortality likely indicates that something has gone wrong with the data collection process. If this is not the case, then the bureaucrats who have managed the fishery into such a position, namely Mr. Crabtree and Dr. Bill Hogarth, ought to be held accountable for the evident mismanagement, which would lead to such drastic and draconian actions.

Again, Mr. Chairman, we ask that you take urgent action in this important matter.

Sincerely,


----------



## TOM WEBER (Aug 14, 2005)

Have Sent Emails ...will Call Tomorrow. We Need To Be Aggressive Tw


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## SteveB (Jun 4, 2004)

Emails sent. I hope that they listen.


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## fishomaniac (May 22, 2004)

Emails sent from here. 

You know, I have seen some twisted logic before, but this thread is a winner.
The fact that an org. like rfa is stepping up to the plate is all the reason you need to support them. To say you will support them only if they win out is fundamentally flawed logic. That's like saying "if the aggies win I'll be an aggie fan". Fairweather fishermen? As a native Texan, I was taught to stand for what I thought was right, no matter my perceived chances of success at prevailing. To support an org. just because they have power, even if they are stabbing you in the back, just ain't Texan. And if that is what gcca did, stab us in the back, shame on them.


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## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

fishomaniac said:


> Emails sent from here.
> 
> You know, I have seen some twisted logic before, but this thread is a winner.
> The fact that an org. like rfa is stepping up to the plate is all the reason you need to support them. To say you will support them only if they win out is fundamentally flawed logic. That's like saying "if the aggies win I'll be an aggie fan". Fairweather fishermen? As a native Texan, I was taught to stand for what I thought was right, no matter my perceived chances of success at prevailing. To support an org. just because they have power, even if they are stabbing you in the back, just ain't Texan. And if that is what gcca did, stab us in the back, shame on them.


AMEN brother!


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## Pubguy (Oct 15, 2005)

Cool to see a thread with 5500 views without a picture of Amy in it.  Anyway, I like the way it has turned. Many concerned people, mostly rowing in the same direction. Thank you RFA for all your efforts. Many, if not all of you, without pay. I sent a few e-mails to the addresses above as well. Somebody please follow up on how the three judges ruled.

Sorry, have to address Haute Pursuit's post above. I agree the RFA is on the front lines for all Texas fishermen. I don't agree that it is flawed logic to ask for results. If all the RFA ever did was talk a good game then it would make sense to withdraw my support or look elsewhere for a more suitable organization. I don't think this is the case because politics is by our constitution a deliberative process. So, please stay the course, Tom, Jim and others. Hopefully the results will come down in our favor.


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## zihuatanejo (Jun 29, 2004)

Update on HELP NOW!

I am working closely with Congressman Ron Paul and his Chief of Staff, Tom Lizzardo. He is very much on our side and working hard to resolve the issue. If you contact your congressman, you can ask him to contact Tom at Congressman Ron Paul's office to sign on the the letter below. The congress members call call directly from their Washing DC offices to X-68258 and sign on over the phone.

This will not get done without your help!! Let's over load the phone system!!! This has to be done by Thursday.

Please see below the e-mail sent to congress members and a copy of the letter they are asked to sign. 

Feel free to call me on my cell with any questions at 979-415-4620.

*Again, all you congressman has to do is call X-68258 and sign on to the letter!!*

Please let me know any feed back you get. 

Thanks,
Lari Scott
Vice-President
Capt. Elliott's Party Boats, Inc.
[email protected]
979-233-1811

-----Original Message----- 
*From: *Lizardo, Tom 
*Sent: *Tuesday, September 19, 2006 2:34 PM 
*Subject: *Coastal/Outdoors Issue Letter

*Rep Paul is looking for co-signers for the following DRAFT letter to Chairman Pombo. If you have questions or your boss would like to sign-on please send me a return e-mail by Noon on Thursday. Thanks for your consideration.*

September 22, 2006

Chairman Richard Pombo 
House Committee on Resources 
2411 Rayburn House Office Building 
Washington, DC 20515

Mr. Chairman: 

We are writing today to ask that you immediately take action to look into the National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS) rulemaking activities with regard to the Red Snapper and other coastal fish.

Recently, Mr. Roy Crabtree of NMFS wrote:

"The 2005 red snapper stock assessment indicates overfishing is 


continuing in the red snapper fishery and is likely to compromise the objectives of the red snapper rebuilding plan. The assessment indicates that to end overfishing, mortality rates must be reduced around 74% from the 2001-2003 levels across all fisheries, including the commercial and recreational red snapper fisheries, and the shrimp fishery .

A wide range of management alternatives are under consideration and include reductions in the Total Allowable Catch; reductions in the recreational and commercial quotas, reduced minimum size limits, reduced recreational bag limits, extended seasonal closures, and possible new gear restrictions in the commercial and recreational red snapper fisheries. In addition to these alternatives, measures to cap effort in the shrimp fishery have also been discussed by the Gulf of Mexico Fishery Management Council.

At the August meeting, the Gulf Council voted to delay further 
consideration of regulatory action until January 2007. NMFS is 


reviewing the need for a possible Interim Rule to establish management measures in time for the 2007 season."

Mr. Chairman, In the September/October of_ Tide Magazine_, published by the Coastal conservation Association (CCA), there is an article by CCA's Chairman Walter W. Fondren III. The article points out both the huge economic impact, and the antiquated government data collection system, relative to recreational fishing. In no instance is the data collection problem more evident than with regard to red snapper.

The snapper fishery has been federally managed for several years, we trust you will agree with us that the claim for a sudden need for a 74% reduction in mortality likely indicates that something has gone wrong with the data collection process. If this is not the case, then the bureaucrats who have managed the fishery into such a position, namely Mr. Crabtree and Dr. Bill Hogarth, ought to be held accountable for the evident mismanagement, which would lead to such drastic and draconian actions.

Again, Mr. Chairman, we ask that you take urgent action in this important matter.

Sincerely,


----------



## Capt Chad (May 1, 2006)

Emails sent and phone call made.

Tom/Jim

Is there any chance of getting this on the news? This is a great site but there has to be thousands that have know idea about what is going on. Are there ways to get this information to people in LA, MISS, AL?

Chad


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## jim smarr (May 21, 2004)

Capt Chad,

This is all over the Gulf as we RFA and Friends have this everywhere as a result of a true grassroots movement. Thanks to all for the efforts. Light up the phones today in Washington. Special Interest can not win over the Congress if we melt down the "switchboards" and Phone lines.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Well guys I talked with Cronyns and Hutchinsons office and they tell me that so far I am the only caller. Whats up with that ???? I guess they may have more than one operator taking calls.(I hope thats it)

Charlie


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

All these people reading this post and not one resonse or caller come on !!!

Charlie


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## wacker (Mar 22, 2006)

Same here when I called Henry Bonilla, Calls made to all.


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## Argo (May 21, 2004)

www.rodnreel.com is a pretty big louisianna site


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## zihuatanejo (Jun 29, 2004)

Henry Cuellar's office - Speak to keith Jones 202-225-1641



Hutchinsons office- speak to Jack 202-224-5922 or Fax attn. Jack 202- 224-0776

Tell them we need them to call Ron Pauls office and co-sign the letter!!


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## manintheboat (Jun 1, 2004)

If you are calling Cornyn, please do not use the number previously posted by Z. Call 202-224-2934. The guy who answered the number said that he is getting a "ton" of calls from a certain message board.


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## Wahoome (Apr 16, 2005)

Senator Cornyn's number is 202-224-2934, I got through and the guy said he'd pass it along. I also mentioned the TGBR.

Here's what I faxed to both:
Senator Cornyn, 
Please contact Rep. Ron Paul and co-sign his letter to 
Chairman Pombo, House Commitee on Resources, regarding the 
mismanagement of the Gulf Red Snapper fishery. The NMFS is 
about to take draconian measures which amount to more of the 
same management techniques that have produced no results for 
years. The NMFS motives, data sources and techniques need to 
be reviewed. Please help as this affects the entire Texas coastal
economy.

Please also look into a proposal which could have far-reaching implications
for Texas. http://www.texasgreatbarrierreef.com Please make Former President
Bush aware of it as well. We could use your help in ensuring a bright future for Texas coastal fisheries.
Best Regards,
Steve Morris
RFA Board Member
1002 Misty Trails Lane
League City, TX 77573


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## manintheboat (Jun 1, 2004)

Make sure you call the number I just posted. I do not think that too many people have gotten through to Cornyn's office. On his contact information, it says for any urgent matters contact his Dallas office first. I sent a fax there as well as his Washington office in addition to my phone call. His fax # is 972-239-2110.


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## gulf_addict (Aug 26, 2005)

calls made...thanks for the info


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## zihuatanejo (Jun 29, 2004)

No wonder the girl I spoke with acted like she was lost!!LOL THANKS GUYS !!


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## gulf_addict (Aug 26, 2005)

Man! I love cut, copy, paste, change the names of the innocent, print, & fax! Thanks wahoome!


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## texasjellyfish (Jan 23, 2006)

Hopefully all voices will be heard and action is taken. The voice of the old GCCA seems silent though. Is this be because its not the GCCA its the CCA. The "Gulf" was removed "Totally Removed" from the association and that all their efforts are for Coastal Conservation "inshore" not Gulf Conservation " offshore". They are not speaking for recerational fisherman on this and with a one or two fish limit i will not support them , as they could be helping us not hurting us.


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## otte (Apr 3, 2005)

Have emailed Sen's Cornyn and Hutchison and Congressman Poe. Have also delivered a hard copy to Poe's office. Will follow with calls this afternoon.

Just wondering if this Potillo is going to blow some of his hot air toward Washington on this. Frankly getting behind this campaign and "doing" is worth more money than this windbag probably has in his account. It sure would have been nice to get down to the issues Jim Smarr started than to go through eith pages of BS.


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## zihuatanejo (Jun 29, 2004)

I spoke with Jim last night and we agreed that if Patillo does ever write a check that it should go to the family of Chelsey Campbell and not the Texas RFA. Thanks.



otte said:


> Have emailed Sen's Cornyn and Hutchison and Congressman Poe. Have also delivered a hard copy to Poe's office. Will follow with calls this afternoon.
> 
> Just wondering if this Potillo is going to blow some of his hot air toward Washington on this. Frankly getting behind this campaign and "doing" is worth more money than this windbag probably has in his account. It sure would have been nice to get down to the issues Jim Smarr started than to go through eith pages of BS.


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## Wahoome (Apr 16, 2005)

*Outstanding Idea!*

OUTSTANDING IDEA!


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## kinja (May 21, 2004)

Otte, that was the whole purpose of my question, what has been accomplished by the RFA on any issues. Alot of work no doubt, but little actual results for the Texas offshore angler to date. Again, I hope they can getrdone Like Mr. Hilton says. I just have my doubts. Is there any problem doubting an organizations effectiveness? Certainly alot of folks doubt the CCA and their effectiveness for like minded causes. Me among them but I do it directly to the CCA. They (CCA) choose not to discuss their message on this forum, RFA chooses to. Thus this is an open forum for all of us to discuss directly with them, their leaders and supporters. Heck, I wish the CCA would frequent this site.

If the RFA is so good, why, once again are they behind the curve with this last minute phone call/letter writing campaign. My elected officials have known my position for months, and are reminded about every 6 weeks. I'm sure it was because someone(s) went back on a promise to the RFA. If that's the case, it speaks directly to them not being able to navigate the process. Simple questions are sometimes the hardest to answer, and my questions were pretty simple. Oh, and for those lovely emails I've gotten, let me answer a very few of your questions.... Yes- I care about my children's future, No-I have not had sex with any monkey, much less a rhesus monkey and no- I have not fornicated with Ernest Fielder (although we cuddled once on his hyena boat), Pat Murray nor Robbie Byers at the CCA.



otte said:


> Have emailed Sen's Cornyn and Hutchison and Congressman Poe. Have also delivered a hard copy to Poe's office. Will follow with calls this afternoon.
> 
> Just wondering if this Potillo is going to blow some of his hot air toward Washington on this. Frankly getting behind this campaign and "doing" is worth more money than this windbag probably has in his account. It sure would have been nice to get down to the issues Jim Smarr started than to go through eith pages of BS.


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## manintheboat (Jun 1, 2004)

Great!!!! Here we go again.:headknock


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## Tom Hilton (May 24, 2004)

*Rfa*

Mr. Patillo,
First, I would like to thank you bringing RFA's successes to light. Here's a partial list once again that *HAS* resulted in substantial positive impacts for the offshore anglers, whether you acknowledge it or not;

1) I was in the room when Smarr suggested to Coastal Fisheries that they require the same 4 fish limit for ALL anglers in state waters. They did so, and have busted some commercial boats fishing illegally in Texas State waters since that meeting. This effectively eliminates commercial fishing in State Waters.
2) RFA sued TPWD over the No Motor Zone designation near the Land Cut and 9 Mile Hole - TPWD made a deal removing this designation due directlt to RFA's efforts.
3) RFA sued TPWD, USFW, and other agencies over the Cedar Bayou/Vinson Slough issue caused by one of CCA'S prominent supporters. RFA cut a deal with the GLO regarding getting funding for the project and partnering up as the lead agency in charge of the project. They are committed to seeing the project thru completion, which is well underway and WILL be completed.
4) RFA saved the live bait fishery when a state senator introduced a bill outlawing the use of live bait by lobbying the committee chairs and others to make sure it died in committee.
5) RFA worked hard with the NMFS to get the longliners moved out past the 50 fathom curve which had a tremendous impact in reducing mortality of sow snapper on the mud flats inside the 50 F curve.
6) RFA pushed hard for longline studies inside the 50 F curve when the numbers of sow snapper disappeared (due to #5 above) off of the stock assessment skewing the numbers to indicate overfishing. Once the longline studies came in, it showed a large biomass of sow snapper which helped the numbers indicate that overfishing was not occuring.
7) RFA filed a lawsuit against the 18" minimum snapper regulation in 2000(which CCA was in favor of) because RFA knew it would be a wholesale slaughter. Judge Head admonished CCA's Mr. Hayes saying as a matter of record in a federal court; "Mr. Hayes, aren't you on the wrong side of this lawsuit? Isn't CCA supposed to be a conservation organization?" Mr. Hayes had no reply to the Judge, by the way.

By the way, blaming RFA for staying true to course while other organizations turn face and desert the recreational anglers is not a valid argument. This thread is also tribute to RFA's effectiveness.

Change the name on the $500 check to Chelsey Campbell - I'm not sure what the address is, but can get it for you.

All the best,
Tom Hilton
RFA-Texas Boardmember


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## shanker (Jan 15, 2006)

I just put in a call to Rep Gene Seaman's office for him to call his contacts in D.C. Gene Seaman is the local TX state representative for the coastal bend and once he see's what this would do to the recreational fishing industry in the area, im sure he will get busy.

-Patrick


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## jim smarr (May 21, 2004)

*Mr. Pallito aka Kinja*

Honorable Men make deals every day. We had been in the loop every day along the way in Washington. We were betrayed by men we thought we could trust with other .orgs. We are trying to overcome the betrayal at the last minute to save two major fisheries being Red Snapper in our Gulf and Summer Flounder on the east coast. I think we have learned who to trust and who not to.


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## kinja (May 21, 2004)

Jim, I hear you and will be interested in exactly what happens. I have my fears about some within other organizations too. I hope it all turns out for the best as I know you're energized but no doubt weary. I'll go ahead and back away from this thread as my point was made and will continue this and any donation further through emails. You know, human nature is funny. Because I question a few things and don't tow the RFA line, to some I'm some sort of CCA whoremonger who sleeps with men and animals. Pretty dang funny but doesn't say alot about the quality of some of your support. But every .org has that element.- Tom Pattillo


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## gulf_addict (Aug 26, 2005)

"Can't we all just get along."


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## jim smarr (May 21, 2004)

Tom,
I did not get personal and do not intend to. I have no knowledge of the pm's you mentioned from various individuals. I was going toe to toe with the ASA and CCA for creating a huge problem when they slid into in bed with the Enviros to the detriment of Texas Recreational Saltwater Anglers.

A mans word is his bond in Texas. I do not like people who break their word nor do most Texans.


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## Snagged (May 21, 2004)

*From Elliot's*

The CCA turned its back on the Red Snapper recreational fisherman. Earlier this yeat the CCA vowed to stand with the recreational RS fishinmen and demand good data, enforcement and reasonable regulations that would actually rebuild the snapper (i.e. size limits and the discard of so many snapper that don't survive)The CCA says one thing and, when in Washington, does another. The laws and limits only punish the law abiding businesses and fishermen and does not address the issue of bad data, enforcement and mortality. The outlaws will continue status quo. The fishery has been managed by the same group (i.e. Crabtree and Hogarth) in Washington for years and if it is still in such bad shape, then they are not doing thier job, and thier plan/s don't work. 

I expect CCA to stand up and do the right thing for the fishermen and the fishery not cowwer to political correctness!!

Below are some important links:

This is a link to the 2coolfishing web site where you can view the discussion about this issue and become more informed. You will have to register to view this link, but it is well worth it. This web site is fun and informative.
2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/showthread.php?t=88312
This is a link to the CCA to let them know you expect them to stand up and do the right thing for the fishermen and the fishery not cowwer to political correctness!!
[email protected]
These are other important links to voice your opinion:
joincca.org/links.html

An important message to convey is: *The snapper fishery has been federally managed for several years, we trust you will agree with us that the claim for a sudden need for a 74% reduction in mortality likely indicates that something has gone wrong with the data collection process. If this is not the case, then the bureaucrats who have managed the fishery into such a position, namely Mr. Crabtree and Dr. Bill Hogarth, ought to be held accountable for the evident mismanagement, which would lead to such drastic and draconian actions.*



I have also attached a document that will greatly educate you in the details of the total situation and the laws. This is very enlighting and I urge you to read it. Also, please pass this information on and let me know of any feed back. 

Sincerly,
Lari Scott
Vice-President
Capt. Elliott's Party Boats, Inc.

*Those wanting a copy of the document mentioned please e-mail me for it. I don't want to waste Mont's bandwidth by posting it. Snagged*

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.6/453 - Release Date: 9/20/2006


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## Brewgod (May 21, 2004)

Okay. Every single person who has read this thread or responded to this thread, and is, shall we say "unhappy" with CCA's stance on the snapper issue needs to do one thing. Pick up the phone, call them, and voice your displeasure. Six or seven hundred phone calls a day for the next several weeks WILL get their attention... 

It's **** sure getting the attention of KBH and Cornyn...


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## manintheboat (Jun 1, 2004)

good idea brew


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## wacker (Mar 22, 2006)

didit yesterday.


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## TOM WEBER (Aug 14, 2005)

Had ,all along, planned to renew with CCA. The more I think about it, the more irritated I get. Just sent an e-mail stating my opinion that they are failing miserably, if their intent is to protect the coastal fishing communities and the snapper fishery. A cut in quotas with no hope of an increase in law enforcement benefits only one group (for a short period of time). I'm out. Future $ to RFA/TX & GBR... Thanks to all involved here to forward the info to Congres. Ron Paul's letter still makes me smile TW


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Heres another link

[email protected]

Houston top guy. I sent him one to let him know how I feel.

Charlie


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## Aces Full (Aug 10, 2005)

Emails, faxes and phonecalls sent to everyone I could contact!!!


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## Animal Chris (May 21, 2004)

Forwarded my views on to the Senators. Currently, I'm high and dry on the Congressman. Good thread to all contributers. This gives us all a lot to think about, especially come election day. 

Tight lines, Chris


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## texasjellyfish (Jan 23, 2006)

*Wow*

"They (CCA) choose not to discuss their message on this forum, RFA chooses to."
Over 135 replying to thread and excess of 8,000 views of interested fisherman
Enough said
They gotta be reading , just not responding

Whatever the outcome, Thanks RFA and All, for not being SILENT


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## Wahoome (Apr 16, 2005)

*USA Today Article*

Here's the article on USA today. Notice the commercial fishermen supporting IFQ's. I can't imagine they are all such conservationists but, hey, maybe they would cut their own income for the greater good. http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/2006-08-28-fish-side-usat_x.htm


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## tufffish (May 11, 2006)

what is the web site to join fra/texas. from what i have seen cca do, it seems they are more into cutting back on fishing. they support cutting limits on everything when data shows the fishery is in good shape. just ask the people in louisianna. i have been a member of cca a while now but lately only for the star tournament. most issues they are on the opposite side i am on. maybe if enough people transfer to rfa we can get a large summer tournament going sponsored by rfa.


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## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

http://www.rfatexas.org/


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## enielsen (Dec 27, 2004)

I joined the RFA this morning and then sent an e-mail to the CCA explaining why I would no longer send in my or my wifes yearly dues to them. I really don't care about the STAR that much and would rather give to an organization that is more on track with the issues at hand. I have been supporting the CCA for the last 8 years but as for now my $ will go to an organization that is fighting for issues that affect me and my interests. I am not bashing the CCA, they have done some good things but it is time for a change. Thank you Jim and Tom for your work and dedication to these issues.


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## speckle-catcher (May 20, 2004)

if someone will take a few minutes to go through this thread and CNP all the different people to contact then start a new thread - *it would definately help*

I'll even throw a sticky on it for you - label the thread "who to contact about snapper legislation" or something like that, post it - and send me a PM, then I'll sticky it.


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## jim smarr (May 21, 2004)

*News From Texas Congressional Office 911 911*

I was just visited by folks from environmental defense, ocean conservancy and the commercial snapper fishery. They are up here on the hill going from office to office trying to convince members to SUPPORT an interim rule. this is going to make our efforts that much more difficult. I spent as much time with them as I could so they would not be able to use as much time on the "undecided." I hope the switch boards are still being lit up.

Based on what they told me they seem to think there is a cut of 33% TAC in the works. That is far more info then Crabtree's "a number of options are being considered."


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## Wahoome (Apr 16, 2005)

What's really funny, on really not, is if you go to the Ocean Conservancy website and click on thier "Action Alert for Red Snapper" You can see that Roy Crabtree quotes them almost word for word.


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## jim smarr (May 21, 2004)

NMFS is very close to an emergency rule. We have to call our Congressman to stop the rule to reduce TAC by 33% or more. We can not stand by and watch this fishery reduced to the point of destroying the for hire sector.


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## TOM WEBER (Aug 14, 2005)

Made my phone calls...actually got thru after a few tries, faxes and emails sent. Hope they listen. Amazing, the so called leaders have such a poor understanding of the issues. Maybe if they were actively fishing the areas they are dealing with ,they would be more inclined to listen. Hopefully all viewing this are doing the same. It is not just the rec snapper fishermen...it is the COMMUNITIES that will be seriously hurt by these changes if they go thru. Thanks Jim for your persistence. TW


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## CJ-28 (Aug 19, 2006)

PATTILLO hERE,S ONE THING THE r.f.a. HAS DONE FOR YOU AND ALL OF US.iTS CALLED THE tEXAS gREAT bARRIER rEEF PROJECT. aND THE SNAPPER MANAFESTO.wHICH YOU CAN FIND AT RFA TEXAS.ORG. BEFORE YOU OPEN YOUR BIG MOUTH, PLEASE READ THE SNAPPER MANAFESTO IN ITS ENTIRITY. SO YOU WILL KNOW WHAT THE RFA HADS BEEN DOING FOR THE LAST YEAR WE HAVE BEEN WORKING FOR THE TRUTH! THE FISH NATZI


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## Wahoome (Apr 16, 2005)

*Ease Up on Pattillo*

He's increased our membership by about 200 since this thread started! He can also take some credit for the phone lines lighting up in DC. He's like Simon on American Idol. (I happened to see it on one day) LOL 
Steve Morris
RFA Board Member


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## Captain Blood (May 27, 2004)

*letters email and voice mails sent*

Been gone a week and look what I missed!? Still.... called Senators and Congresspersons. Also sent a very polite email to Mr. Kinney with CCA. I am just amazed that they are so silent on this whole thing. Sure shines the light - BRIGHT.

www.joinrfa.org



Wahoome said:


> He's increased our membership by about 200 since this thread started! He can also take some credit for the phone lines lighting up in DC. He's like Simon on American Idol. (I happened to see it on one day) LOL
> Steve Morris
> RFA Board Member


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## zihuatanejo (Jun 29, 2004)

*It is working*









 September 21, 2006







Chairman Richard Pombo

House Committee on Resources

1324 Longworth House Office Building

Washington, DC 20515



Dear Mr. Chairman:



 I am writing to express my concerns regarding the management of the Gulf of Mexico red snapper fishery.



 Recently my staff and I have been contacted by several recreational fisherman and recreational fishing organization leaders. As I'm sure you are well aware, my Congressional District contains a large recreational fishing industry, and red snapper is a frequent favorite for those fishermen.



 I'm particularly concerned by recent proposals calling for dramatic reductions in red snapper fish catch. If implemented, many of those proposals could be detrimental to the fishing industry in my Congressional District. As the Resources Committee continues to work on comprehensive fishery management reform, I hope we can work to ensure a healthy red snapper fish stock without paralyzing recreational fishing. 



 With warmest regards, I am



 Sincerely,







 Solomon P. Ortiz

 Member of Congress


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## Mrs. Snapper (Aug 26, 2005)

Keep up the good work guys. Keep calling and passing the word on. We need to send a message to the NMFS and the CCA. You can also send comments to [email protected]. Here is what I sent them:

*Recreational fishermen demand good data, enforcement and reasonable regulations that would actually rebuild the snapper population (i.e. size limits and the discard of so many snapper that don't survive). The laws and limits only punish the law abiding businesses and fishermen and do not address the issue of bad data, enforcement and mortality. The outlaws will continue status quo. The fishery has been managed by the same group (i.e. Crabtree and Hogarth) in Washington for years and if it is still in such bad shape, then they are not doing their job, and their plan/s don't work. Arbitrary emergency rules will not solve the problem. *


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## wet dreams (May 21, 2004)

Mrs Snapper I see your a new poster, thanks for your support, I more or less copied your letter and added a few things and sent a cpl more. Thanks again WW >>>*Recreational fishermen demand good data, enforcement and reasonable regulations that would actually rebuild the snapper population (i.e. size limits and the discard of so many snapper that don't survive). The laws and limits only punish the law abiding businesses and fishermen and do not address the issue of bad data, enforcement and mortality. The outlaws will continue status quo. The fishery has been managed by the same group (i.e. Crabtree and Hogarth) in Washington for years and if it is still in such bad shape, then they are not doing their job, and HISTORY shows their plan/s don't work. Arbitrary emergency rules will not solve the problem. In my opinion and many others with the IFQs YOU have PUT the fox in the HENHOUSE. *


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## Mrs. Snapper (Aug 26, 2005)

I'm not new, just quiet. I like to read.


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## Bret (May 21, 2004)

I faxed my letters in yesterday.. I hope that they are getting flooded with faxes and phone calls.... Maybe this will get someones attention..!!! Its nice to see Mr Solomon Ortiz getting on the ball.


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## zihuatanejo (Jun 29, 2004)

We have also garnered the attention of a couple of national news writers and they have ALL the facts!!


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## jim smarr (May 21, 2004)

*Mr. Dorsett and Commercial Fishermen tour D.C.*

The delay is typical, said Chris Dorsett, Gulf of Mexico fish conservation program director with the Ocean Conservancy, a conservation group that has a federal lawsuit pending over the red snapper overfishing problem.

"This is a chronic problem the council has failed to address through its history of management," said Dorsett of Austin, Texas. "If we're going to get our fisheries on the road to ecological and economic recovery, we have to take some action."

Below is the letter Ocean Conservency is sending in:

I write to urge you to take immediate action through an interim rule to end the overfishing of the severely depleted red snapper population in the Gulf of Mexico. Red snapper are at only three percent of their historic levels. You must act now so that conservation measures are in place to end overfishing before January when the next fishing season begins.
For the ninth year in a row, the Gulf of Mexico Fishery Management Council has been unwilling to take the actions necessary to sustainably manage red snapper. Red snapper in the Gulf can wait no longer. You must act now.
You must: (1) lower the red snapper catch level to at most 5.3 million pounds; (2) reduce the incidental capture and killing, or "bycatch" of red snapper by the shrimp fishery by capping fishing effort in areas where young red snapper live; and (3) lower the level of bycatch of undersized red snapper caused by commercial and recreational fishermen by lowering size limits.
Severely depleted red snapper populations are bad for the Gulf ecosystem and bad for fishing communities reliant on sustainable fishing that healthy stocks can provide. The Gulf Council has failed to uphold its legal and stewardship responsibilities for the last eight years. Please uphold your duty as the ultimate steward of our ocean resources by taking action today to end the overfishing of red snapper in the Gulf of Mexico before it is too late.
sincerely,
Ocean Consevancy Member



Mr. Dorsett from Ocean Conservancy along with a Representative of Environmental Defense were going from Office to Office with Three Commercial Fishermen with him. Seems like Ocean Conservancy and Environmental Defense have lost any Credibility they had even as enviro whaco's.

Tom's Manifesto has done the job. These guys looked like Ala Baba and the Forty Thieves pushing IFQ's and an Emergency Rule to the Congressional Staffers after reading "The Snapper Manifesto". Too Funny. We couldn't have scripted the play any better. Way to go Chris how disingenuous.


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## Pubguy (Oct 15, 2005)

Nice entelligent post Cj-28! By the way, the caps lock key is on the left above the shift key. Manafesto is manifesto. Natzi is ****. Thanks for the intelligent post. Let's not hijack this thread it is definitely going in the right direction. I hope our elected officials listen to us. Kudos Mr. Smarr and others.


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## Lady Lari (Aug 26, 2005)

I would like to reply to Wet Dream about the IQF's. Back in the day when there was not a 2000 pounds/ trip limit and 10 day/month season in the commercial sector, there was a "gentleman's agreement" between the party boat captains and the commercial captains. That being the party boats fished out to about 60 miles and the commercial boats fished pasted 60 miles. When the trip limits were imposed, the commercial fishermen were, and still are, forced to fish as close in as possible and run in and out as quick as possible to catch their 2000 pounds. Therefore the snapper spots inside of 60 miles have been pounded, with no rest to recover. This regulation put mother nature in a tail spin and caved under the pressure. The IQF's will alow the commercial guys to fish when and where they want until their poundage is reached. But you still have the enforcement issue to deal with. The whole fishery is in a mess, and the recreational fishermen are bearing the brunt of the regulations.


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## predator22 (Feb 2, 2005)

Jim from RFA has done a tremendous job working to secure the rights of rec. fishermen in the arena of Red Snapper, as well as doing what is best for the species. I visit with Jim several times a month, and I have rarely met a person with as much dedication and passion as he has for this issue. 

RFA is a good right minded group that I believe looks for the best possible solutions in issues such as the Red Snapper crisis. On another important note they are active and that is a crucial aspect of any issue. You have to be active where it matters in order to make a differance. 

Special interest, the enviro's, and animal rights groups no where the battle is and where they can win. The battle is in the political arena, and they are well funded and well equipped to wage war on everything we love near and dear. These groups will jump on any side if it means a baby step forward to further their leftist agendas. Ultimately their target is us the sportsmen, and their means justify their ends to them. 

Buercrats take the road of least resistance in most cases. They sway like the wind and when they have enough people putting pressure on them they will make decisions based on that pressure. That is why it is important to be active, and be a part of a group that takes action where it matters. The bigger the voice we have the better chances we have of securing our rights, and doing what is right for our future generations. 

Jim I appreciate all that you and RFA have done. 

Zack Hall
Texas Outdoor Council

P.S. and yes that was a plug for Jim...he deserves it.


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## Roostor (Jul 17, 2006)

*Just became a new RFA member*

By gosh, when I started reading these post's some odd hours ago, I didn't think I would be joining an organization (RFA) and writing letters to Senators and Representatives, and the US Dept of Commerce Secretary.....but I just completed doing all those things.
I guess what bothers me most though, is that we are arguing as a group when in fact, we should all pull together and be fighting and waging war on those who try to affect us. We are, after all, Fishermen(and women), and I think the most of us are all recreational.

Thanks to all who have contributed and worked so hard to preserve our "Recreational Fishing" and I am one also that will say to CCA; "if your not going to stand up and fight....then get out of the way, because the RFA is ready to take up our cause."


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## jim smarr (May 21, 2004)

*Zack*

Zack,



I really appreciate the kind words . I am still up mulling over the game plan for the upcoming week. I think we may have dodged the bullet

by being very aggressive on the Red Snapper Issue. We came darn close to losing an entire Industry called Recreational Fishing in the Gulf of Mexico.

I feel almost like I did seeing Dr. Cooley come out to report on my Dad's open heart surgery. I am drained. This week was a knock down drag out with

The enviros and their "New Partners" Many a good Man and Woman came to the "Alamo" Monday not knowing if they would ever see freedom again.

The odds were about the same Monday as Travis faced. We knew the death of Coastal Texas was at stake. We have taken no prisoners'. It was time to

 flex our muscles and stand tall. We have survived the first wave. I don't think the opposition will like what we have in store for them next week.


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## Snagged (May 21, 2004)

People,
Remind your congress critters that fishermen vote and most families vote the same pattern.


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## manintheboat (Jun 1, 2004)

Pubguy said:


> Nice entelligent post Cj-28! By the way, the caps lock key is on the left above the shift key. Manafesto is manifesto. Natzi is ****. Thanks for the intelligent post. Let's not hijack this thread it is definitely going in the right direction. I hope our elected officials listen to us. Kudos Mr. Smarr and others.


Since we are correcting spelling errors, I am pretty sure it is (I)ntelligent, not entellegent. j/k


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## Wahoome (Apr 16, 2005)

*Sleeping Giants*

Every time I find myself with a few free moments I "google" something like "Texas Coastal Fishing Guides" or "Texas Tackle Stores" and I call them. I ask them if they are aware of efforts to reduce recreational fishing access to red snapper, and if they are aware of the Texas Great Barrier Reef Project. I am amazed at how often the answer is "No" to each. I fill them in on both and our Golf Tournament ask them to join RFA and support us. The reactions vary from surprise to anger. And invariably they say the'll join.

One charter operator bristled when I told him that only the RFA and one Texas fisherman (a charter operator) showed up to a Gulf Council meeting in Baton Rouge recently while many showed up from Alabama. He defensively said "Well, I have a full time job, I have to fish for a living, I can't afford to traipse off across the country for a meeting!" To which I calmly replied "That's what the RFA is for". My point is, our audience is limited here. Within our group on this board we're pretty well informed. Please take the time to broadcast this message to other fishermen, charter operators, tackle store owners, motel operators, fishing boat makers, brokers, etc. We have not even scratched the surface of our full potential as a grass roots organization when I can call a Freeport Charter captain, or a galveston tackle store owner and find complete ignorance on the subject. Please take the time to go beyond words of encouragement here and pick up the phone. Give them the links to the website http://www.rfatexas.org and email the Snapper Manifesto to anyone you think has a dog in this fight. If you have time, talent, and ample, hyperactive like, motivation get in touch with Jim Smarr. We need a few more "good people" Thanks in advance.
Steve Morris
RFA Texas Board Member


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## wacker (Mar 22, 2006)

Roostor, Welcome to the fight!


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## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

Good point Wahoome.


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## Aces Full (Aug 10, 2005)

Sent info to : Juliet Eilperin at the e-mail adress below to she if she would be interested in a follow-up article...

http://projects.washingtonpost.com/staff/email/juliet+eilperin/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/31/AR2005083102330.html


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## rambler (Sep 17, 2005)

How many people actually go snapper fishing? How often? How much revenue does it create? For how many?

How many people (esp. in Houston) go out to eat? How many want snapper? How often? How much revenue does it create? For how Many?


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## fishomaniac (May 22, 2004)

How many go out to eat for the sole purpose of dining on red snapper? I don't think the restaurant business is going to suffer, no matter what happens.


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## jim smarr (May 21, 2004)

I think the numbers were 50,000,000 Commercial and 8,000,000,000 for Recreatioal.
That is Fifty Million vs Eight Billion for Recreational for the Rio Linda Crowd as Linbaugh says.lol

The problem is we need them to just stay in their portion of the TAC and not kill
40 million pounds with discards. That is nearly ten times the impact they should have
yet they maintain 51% of the Total Allowable Catch. Not one of them is worried about lowering the TAC. Tell's you they aren't legal to start with and don't ever intend to be. We have some ideas on that. They aren't going to like them.


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## Aces Full (Aug 10, 2005)

Sent more info out to Al Jones concerning red snapper

http://www.sunherald.com/mld/thesunherald/sports/outdoors/15539607.htm


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## Aces Full (Aug 10, 2005)

Sent some info to Shannon Tompkins concerning red snapper...

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/outdoors/tompkins/4175158.html


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## Gap (Jun 4, 2004)

The $50 mil commercial number seems about right. 5 million red snapper plates at $10/each = $50 million. $20 at Papadeaux... Sure it's more complicated than that, but the $ at the table X the total number of fish should get close.

I have no clue how the rec $ is obtained. Please explain if someone knows. Since I haven't seen a basis of how $8 billion is spent recreationally on snapper, I'm assuming it's a catch all number of all rec fishing $ in the gulf. We're good for $30K per year on my boat including gas, storage, tackle and boat. I'm sure many here are in the same position. It'd be easy to smoke the commercial $ just with the boats running out of Freeport. 

But to the point of the "$8 Billion" number - Does the spending of all the guys in the POCO tournament count to this? I don't think that had anything to do with snapper... When I buy 250 gallons of fuel at the marina to go tuna fishing, does that count to this total? All that money spent on the BIG E on that last tuna trip, does that count?
My point is this statistic is "all gulf rec spending" vs Commercial Snapper revenue. Why tout this obviously apples to oranges statistic? There's plenty of compelling statistics to make the case. 

Please correct me if my assumptions are incorrect.

Patrick


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## jim smarr (May 21, 2004)

Snapper is the $$$ fish for the Commercials in the Gulf. The other stuff is so cheap they quit fishing for them. This from Phillip Horn a Commercial Rep. on the Gulf Council. I am sure there other fish brought in but the Mother Load is and always will be Red Snapper
as I understand it for now under current regulations.


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## Snagged (May 21, 2004)

Gap,
The snapper are the mainstay of the smallboat fishermen. Start totaling up what they spend in fuel, lodging, bait, tackle, booze, food and repairs. Now if you eliminate the basic infrastructure that maintains them the bigger boats won't have reasonable cost marinas, fuel, bait and tackle available.
The effect of closing the snapper fishing would be a serious economic burden on the coast as the domino effect took place.


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## Wahoome (Apr 16, 2005)

Snapper aren't seasonal visitors, they're here all the time. They are great and sought after table fare. They are relatively easy to catch.....even a young child, who can't cast can enjoy catching snapper. It's an old standby for charter captains as even the most mentally challenged client can manage to catch one. Even after you get skunked on the kings and lings you can always count on your "honey hole" to produce a limit and send your clients home with a smile. Grouper have been fished out so far that you need electric reels and 400' of water to go after them. That's more than a child or novice angler should have to deal with. So don't down play the importance of snapper to the recreational market. That 8 billion figure was the result of a university study and I tend to think the derivitive benefit is probably close to that.


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## Snagged (May 21, 2004)

*From Elliot's*

This is easy. Here is Chairman Pombo's e-mail. [email protected] You can send him your thoughts of the NMFS (National Marine Fisheries Service) management of the red snapper fishery, or cut and paste what I sent him (it is at the bottom). Chairman Pombo is head of the committee which governs the NMFS. He can actually stop them in their tracks and demand data to back their actions. 

Please pass this on and let me know of any correspondence you receive.

Thanks,
Lari Scott
Vice-President
Capt. Elliott's Party Boats, Inc.
[email protected]
979-233-1811



Dear Chairman Pombo,

The NMFS is in desperate need of oversight. Please take action immediately to look into the National Marine Fisheries Service with regard to the red snapper regulations.

Recreational Fishermen demand and deserve good date, enforcement and reasonable regulations that would actually rebuild the snapper population. The laws and limits only punish the law abiding businesses and fishermen and does not address the issue of bad data, enforcement and mortality. Moreover, it does nothing to actually rebuild the stock. The outlaws will continue status quo. The fishery has been managed by the same group (i.e. Crabtree and Hogarth) in Washington for years. If the fishery is still in such bad straits, then they are not doing their job and their plan/s don't work. Arbitrary emergency rules will not solve the problem.

I appreciate your urgency in looking into the management of the red snapper fishery by the NMFS.

Sincerely,
Lari Scott
Vice-President
Capt. Elliott's Party Boats, Inc.
[email protected]
979-233-1811


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## Angler 1 (Apr 27, 2005)

Question??

If you enter the S.T.A.R. tournment you become a member right? 
Also by becoming a member you agree and support what ever they do right?
So by entering the S.T.A.R. then CCA is gaining support on matters that the public does not really agree on. seems the CCA is pretty sneaky.


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## manintheboat (Jun 1, 2004)

It says on their website (CCA that is) that their policies are derived from "ground-up". With that it appears that they are supposed to base their policies from what their membership wants, or at least membership should have the ability to influence it. A lot of us, me included are CCA members and have complained for months about their stance and lack of action. I know I should have been hammering them months ago by attending meetings and voicing my displeasure as well as a barage of phone calls and emails but that never happened. I do not know how much it would have helped but I have to believe that it might have. RFA is the lead dog in this fight but CCA could be a powerful ally in this fight too if they could just see the light.


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## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

CCA would be the difference maker if they wanted to champion this cause. Their unwillingness to side with recreational fishermen speaks volumes about their direction.


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## word-doctor (Sep 20, 2005)

manintheboat said:


> It says on their website (CCA that is) that their policies are derived from "ground-up". With that it appears that they are supposed to base their policies from what their membership wants, or at least membership should have the ability to influence it.


I think they mean that their policies are derived from ground up... something? Sort of a policy-by-chum?

I know the whole history of CCA and the redfish revival. I appreciate it. But it happened largely before I had my drivers license. Wanna know why the AFL-CIO has trouble getting new members? They're still fighting for Pullman Porters and button-threaders...

Monied interests don't seem to have trouble fighting "new" fights... why is it that those purporting to represent the majority take forever to recognize that there _is_ a fight?


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## kinja (May 21, 2004)

*Jim Smarr*

Jim Smarr or Tom Hilton, could you explain in some detail, exactly what the "first wave" was and how it (the bullet) was avoided. What I mean is, tell me what was avoided. I.e., the emergency rule, IFQ's, etc.. What is your next obstacle on the road to victory, the timing of said obstacle, and what you would like to see happen from a grass roots level. Just curious as are alot of folks. In private, I was also told there would be a letter from RFA's attorney posted last week outlining a major announcement or something to that effect. I could easily have missed it somewhere else. Thank you.-Tom



jim smarr said:


> Zack,
> 
> I really appreciate the kind words . I am still up mulling over the game plan for the upcoming week. I think we may have dodged the bullet
> 
> ...


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## jim smarr (May 21, 2004)

*Kinja/ Pattillo*

We are trying to undo what your team did in DC. Supporting a 2 year rebuilding plan accross the Board in the Current draft of the Magnuson act would in effect shut down Red Snapper in the Gulf of Mexico and Summer Flounder on the East Coast for two years. This action will destroy the Recreational Fishermen and the support Industries all up and down the Texas Coast. Not to mention restraunts and motels that depend on fishermen. I do not owe you an explanation but you got it. Now call Bob Hayes and ask him why your team supports the crash of Texas Saltwater Fishing as we once knew it. We have been on the phone all week with Congress and they are hearing our plea to stop the insainity with great interest. In fact we have gotten teams working all across the Gulf of Mexico helping with their Members of Congress in a true ground swell grassroots movement. RFA is a 501-C-4 so we can lobby legally. 501-C-3's can not lobby
as I understand the IRS code.

By the way have the "Judges " received your check yet? Remember the $500.00 wager you posted here.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

I started to say something but I wont. Jim and everyone else who is working on the present program I appreciate every effort put forth by yall. You know, it may not work out to our satisfaction but at least we didnt set on out hands and just *****. Like the sign in my office says

"THE ONE WHO SAYS IT CAINT BE DONE SHOULD NEVER INTERFERE WITH THE ONE WHO IS DOING IT "

Hang in there Smarr and others
Charlie


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## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

The CCA does not care about Texas and our red snapper fishery... It is time to back someone who does.


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## TOM WEBER (Aug 14, 2005)

It amazes me people can't understand the "trickle down" effect of fed. decisions such as this if they come to pass. Just remember the effect of the luxury tax...it was not supposed to hurt anyone except the rich man's wallet when he purchased his big toys. It virtually shut down the custom small boat builders and everyone that depended on their presence. This will do the same. The CCA is doing NOTHING at this point to stop NMFS potential actions. Stand behind a group that is trying, or come up with a better solution. I have received no response to my CCA emails. Mr Smarr and Hilton have been quick to respond, and all others that frequent this board agree that something has to be done. The CCA is not stepping up to the plate in my opinion and the coastal communities are what we are fighting for, not to mention future generations. I would also like to add, tho' it's been said, Mr. Crabtree needs to resign. If he were managing a more visible part of the fed gov, I suspect he would have long ago been gone. Thanks for listening TW


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## Captain Blood (May 27, 2004)

Jim, your are quite the gentleman. Mr. Patillo I also want to thank you for you continue advocacy in keeping this dialogue in front of the people. It's folk such as you that make this a great country. You can say whatever diatribe you want, keep asking the same (already answered) question over and over, and then WELCH on your grandstanding offer to donate money to the RFA. (or any org that was approved by the judge) That came after you originally made your grandstand play. So all that is left to say, I think is "put up or shut up"


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## kinja (May 21, 2004)

Captain Blood and others, where is my diatribe? How is questioning the situation seen as malfeasance and getting in the way? My fifth generation Texan father always said to question things in a straightforward manner to those in a position to make decisions? I tell you what pardner, forget the men I mentioned except for Charlie Everts. If Charlie says the RFA has done 2 significant things to completion for the Texas Offshore angler as originally posed, that's good enough for me. The 25th is the date I set originally and I'm a man of my word although I haven't seen a yeah/neah answer from anyone yet. Although we don't always agree, Charlie is a good man through my discussions with him, with good ideas and a solid heart. The RFA could benefit significantly from men of his ilk. BTW, if he doesn't want to give a thumbs up or down, I understand.-Tom


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## jim smarr (May 21, 2004)

*Kinja /Pattillo*

We could wait around for a study to prove the Commercial Sector is overfishing by 19,000,000 pounds and killing another 20,000,000 pounds removing 39,000,000 pounds of brood stock out of the Gulf of Mexico but the old pioneer stock here(1820's to Texas from Germany and still hard headed) says we can't wait much less aprove IFQ's and give these guys 365 days on the water to catch their portion of the TAC. They never seem to quite get there do they.
Again without Law Enforcement we are dead in the water. Most folks grasp this concept with out question. This 39,000,000 pound deal is nearly ten years worth of Recreational TAC with a first five fish rule and a 12 month season.

I ask the voters here what they think?

A. Maybe just shut down the Commercials Down (Put them in time out for the penalty) and let them sit out until we catch up?

or

B. Split the sectors 78% recreational to 22% Commercial on economics and let them continue to fish on a limited basis with VMS,A Mandated Official Check in with a NMFS agent to over see weigh in. Fine them 400k ,Take their permit and boat along with 3 years hard time for a violation as Australia has done. The fishery would recovery quickly.


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## kinja (May 21, 2004)

jim smarr said:


> I ask the voters here what they think?
> 
> A. Maybe just shut down the Commercials Down (Put them in time out for the penalty) and let them sit out until we catch up?
> 
> ...


Jim, time out is for toddlers. I truly don't have a problem dividing up the fishery based upon sound economic data. But, you must fine John Doe, in his 20' Hydrasport Vector CC the same for violation of his daily limit. Be it dollar for dollar or a percentage basis. Take his boat and fishing license and equipment for 3 years hard time. Every time I get stopped entering a jetty system (11 times this year), the wardens always comment on how many recreationals they stopped that particular day in violation of existing game laws. Is the RFA ready to agree to equal treatment under the law for any violation regardless of affiliation? Look, I don't disagree that the legal enforcement is lacking as of today. Clearly it is and must be improved to facilitate a meaningful recovery. Its not as simple as pandering a them vs. us stance. I wish it was, but ethically and effectively it is not. You and I both know that.-Tom


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## Snagged (May 21, 2004)

Pattillo,
Can you name any other groups that have even tried to do something?
How many times have you seen fast results with anything dealing with politicians?


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Morning Tom Patillo

Thanks for the smoke Tom.

Well check my post nr 42 on this thread 9/19/06 regarding what I think regarding RFA accomplishments. CCA did one thing which I advocated a few years back and thats removing Snapper from the STAR tournament. Because how could an orginization that is supposed to be a conservation Association put a fish so overfished in their tournament. Especially the big egg laying sows. They did respond and take it out. 

Now on this present issue for some reason and I really dont understand why, they have (in my opinion) totally missed the boat. They are not speaking for me or most anyone who has any knowlege of the Snapper problem. I dont blame CCA for the overfishing of Snapper in the Gulf but I do blame them for "lining up" with the NMFS the ones who have totally mis-managed the fisheries and destroyed the Snapper fishery. I just dont understand that.

Charlie


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## kinja (May 21, 2004)

Morning Charlie

I recall your answer and if memory serves, you agreed nothing has been completed to date. I think my question was clearly answered in that they have not done 2 things to completion. However, because you believe they are headed in the right direction, I'll make a partial contribution to them and the rest to our 2cool owner for all the hours of fun spent here. This will be my last on this thread. Over 12k views, no girl pictures, no boat pictures, and only one picture of a goat pooping with his willie out, not bad.-Tom


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## zihuatanejo (Jun 29, 2004)

I can tell you that as of this morning no fewer than 5 Congressmen from Texas to Alabama have written letters to Congressman Richard Pombo the Head of the House Subcommittee on Resources asking him to prevent an emergency rule and ALSO look into the "draconian" mismanagement of the Red Snapper fishery in the gulf. If you would truly like to know what happened in Washington this week I am sure Tom Lizardo (Congressman Ron Pauls Chief of staff) will be glad to tell you who came calling on him this week in Washington.....


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## zihuatanejo (Jun 29, 2004)

*Where The CCA money goes !!!*

http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm/bay/search.summary/orgid/5669.htm

Note how they compare to their peers... and $169,000 for David Cummins in 2004....WOW.


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## Tom Hilton (May 24, 2004)

*Rfa*



Pattillo said:


> Morning Charlie
> 
> I recall your answer and if memory serves, you agreed nothing has been completed to date. I think my question was clearly answered in that they have not done 2 things to completion. However, because you believe they are headed in the right direction, I'll make a partial contribution to them and the rest to our 2cool owner for all the hours of fun spent here. This will be my last on this thread. Over 12k views, no girl pictures, no boat pictures, and only one picture of a goat pooping with his willie out, not bad.-Tom


Patillo,
Your denial that RFA has not "done 2 things to completion" is indicative of your total lack of regard for the facts as presented. Again, here are some examples of several accomplishments that are *completed (5)* or in progress (2) ;

1) I was in the room when Smarr suggested to Coastal Fisheries that they require the same 4 fish limit for ALL anglers in state waters. They did so, and have busted some commercial boats fishing illegally in Texas State waters since that meeting. This effectively eliminates commercial fishing in State Waters. *Done. Completed. This would not be reality today if not due directly to Mr. Smarr's efforts.*

2) RFA sued TPWD over the No Motor Zone designation near the Land Cut and 9 Mile Hole - TPWD made a deal removing this designation due directly to RFA's efforts. *Done. Completed. This would not be reality today if not due directly to Mr. Smarr's efforts.*

3) RFA sued TPWD, USFW, and other agencies over the Cedar Bayou/Vinson Slough issue caused by one of CCA'S prominent supporters. RFA cut a deal with the GLO regarding getting funding for the project and partnering up as the lead agency in charge of the project. They are committed to seeing the project thru completion, which is well underway and WILL be completed. *RFA's part in the process is done - the project is in process.*

4) RFA saved the live bait fishery when a state senator introduced a bill outlawing the use of live bait by lobbying the committee chairs and others to make sure it died in committee. *Done. Completed. This would not be reality today if not due directly to Mr. Smarr's efforts.*

5) RFA worked hard with the NMFS to get the longliners moved out past the 50 fathom curve which had a tremendous impact in reducing mortality of sow snapper on the mud flats inside the 50 F curve. *Done. Completed. This would not be reality today if not due directly to Mr. Smarr's efforts.*

6) RFA pushed hard for longline studies inside the 50 F curve when the numbers of sow snapper disappeared (due to #5 above) off of the stock assessment skewing the numbers to indicate overfishing. Once the longline studies came in, it showed a large biomass of sow snapper which helped the numbers indicate that overfishing was not occuring. *Done. Completed. This would not be reality today if not due directly to Mr. Smarr's efforts.*

7) RFA filed a lawsuit against the 18" minimum snapper regulation in 2000(which CCA was in favor of) because RFA knew it would be a wholesale slaughter. Judge Head admonished CCA's Mr. Hayes saying as a matter of record in a federal court; "Mr. Hayes, aren't you on the wrong side of this lawsuit? Isn't CCA supposed to be a conservation organization?" Mr. Hayes had no reply to the Judge, by the way. *RFA In Action to help the fishery and recreational fishermen, and on the right side of the law suit.
*
Again, we at RFA stand by our word and follow through on our commitments. If and when you become a RFA member, we will expect the same from you.

All the best,
Tom Hilton 
RFA-Texas Boardmember


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## Robert.Parson (Sep 7, 2004)

heh Guys, i wish i had the patience to read this post in it entirety, but i don't. But i do have a lunch hour and i get off at 6 pm every night.
What can i do, as an individual, other than join RFA, (done that) and email all my friends the Snapper Manifest, (done that) to contribute in assisting RFA in keeping snapper fishing open the rec fisherman ?


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## jim smarr (May 21, 2004)

*We have some Members of Congress Working OT*

We have a good number of Members of Congress that have fired off letters to
halt the Emergency Rule. Chairman Pombo's Office has distributed the Snapper Manifesto to the Committe Members. We have sent the Manifesto to most of the Texas Delegation. Members in other States followed our plan to a T and sent their Members of Congress the Manifesto for review. Thanks to all that helped all across the Gulf of Mexico.

We have given them our side of the story to consider. Maybe Common Sense will rule the day. We have also been asking to remove the mandatory two year rebuilding plan in the Magnuson Act that controls the way NMFS deals with all Fisheries in the U.S.A. Many were shocked to hear our side in Congress from so many back in the "Home Districts". Maybe Grass Roots will work.

This has been a long 10 days. Many of us had phones in our ears for ten hours a day. We have made many new friends in D.C. Some old friends were very helpful opening doors to other Members Staff. What a work out.

Thanks to all that participated in the effort to save our sport all across Texas and the Gulf of Mexico.


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## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

Thank you Jim... there are plenty here that really appreciate you efforts.


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## Snagged (May 21, 2004)

Thank you Jim and the RFA.


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## wacker (Mar 22, 2006)

Thanks Jim, Tom, and everybody that took the time to put their two cents in.


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## Rum Runner (Oct 27, 2005)

*Thanks RFA*

I joined the RFA a few days ago because of all the effort I have seen. I don't like the commercial fish bashing - they have families to feed and also feed a lot of families. As to the barrage of questions asking whether anything has been done - heck, you guys at least TRY to get things done in addition to accomplishing many goals you have set. Sometimes all the effort in the world cannot achieve an end result - especially dealing with multifaceted issues. Thanks for the good fight, and keep up the good work. I would love to know how I can volunteer my time and effort. Keep pressing for the reef - what a great idea!!!


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## zihuatanejo (Jun 29, 2004)

I share Jim's thoughts and truly believe WE as recreational fishermen/women have made a difference. Just 10 days ago we went out guns blazing, and today we have the full attention of the Congressmen/women across the south and many folks in Washington as well. Letters of support were written and sent and our cause has been brought to the forefront of their minds. In fact I imagine that there are a couple of guys at NMFS who are in fear of losing their jobs over this campaign!! Those who have doubted us were merely "throwing rocks at a moving train" to quote Jim. And were not done yet...just reloading for the next wave!!!
- El Burro


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## jim smarr (May 21, 2004)

.

The Team Leaders were Tom Hilton, Mikel Stapleton ( El Burro) ,Mark Schweitzer, Steve Morris, Bobby Schoenfeld, John Taggart and a couple of friends across the Gulf along with a few very strong Members of Congress. Thanks Dr. Ron Paul and Mr. Solomon Ortiz both Coastal Congressmen for their heading up our efforts. 

These same men have also put together the Golf and Banquet Fundraiser in the middle of this little Snapper deal. Tom and Team have put together "The Manifesto" 14 pages of cold hard facts and a Grant application of over 8megs, and are now working on the reefing corridor permit applications. Can you say "Multi Tasking". LOL We have many new Board Members and are looking forward to the years ahead and what they will bring in Texas Coastal Fishing due to the efforts of this New Team.

These men all have day Jobs by the way and have given up vast amounts of personal time to Achieve these deadlines.

Simply Thanks


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## otte (Apr 3, 2005)

Thanks to all who have busted their hump on this. Also, I agree w/ Capt. Blood, it's time to start using the WELCHER word.


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## fishomaniac (May 22, 2004)

Well, Patillo did change his terms, putting the decision in the hands of one person who has already stated an opinion. But if he has had a galvanizing effect on membership and motivation, I say give him a pass. Sort of like "good cop-bad cop". Whatever works.


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## kinja (May 21, 2004)

Holy thread resurrection.

It's been a decade and the RFA didn't do caca as predicted. 

Who's left towing the line? Hilton and CCA are left standing. 

Thanks Tom

I got a 9 day season and 2 snapper a day. Denofrio lined his pockets over this deal.


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## saltaholic (Feb 19, 2005)

Wow! 9 years later....


.


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## gater (May 25, 2004)

*Wow*



saltaholic said:


> Wow! 9 years later....
> 
> .


Wow is right and all this time the Snapper have been eating each other


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## Snookered (Jun 16, 2009)

Pattillo said:


> Holy thread resurrection.
> 
> It's been a decade and the RFA didn't do caca as predicted.
> 
> ...


 wow....old school....

but yeah, CCA is still in there fighting....

http://2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/showthread.php?t=1643890

snookered


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## jim smarr (May 21, 2004)

*Really*

Guys U.S. Congressman and Chairman of Natural Resources Committee, which oversees fisheries, Doc Hastings told me in a Houston that we Recreational Blue Water Fisherman had to have a change in the White House to return fisheries management back to anglers instead of the radical enviro's.

I decided to get Governor Perry to ask the other four Gulf States to join him in taking on the Feds over Gulf Blue Water Fisheries. The ask was to allow local States to take over management of fisheries. Seems there is a bill in Congress to do just that. Others have taken immediate credit for our work.

As far as fisheries management train wreck one group sold us out in the beginning joined later by other recreational Sharks attempting to carve out a part of the TAC for their group and it was not the RFA!!!!! The other group's wanted to think outside the box and played with the enviros. How has that worked out for us????

I made a statement here one time that if we did not get together and head off the enviros we would be fishing in a bath tub with a fishing pole with a magnet on a string for plastic floating fish with a small piece of metal embedded, a small childs game the 1960's. Seems like we are there. Politics have gotten **** local haven't they? Some here were offended by our mentioning the nasty word Politics on the 2cool Board. Just maybe we had the right ideas.

As far as Jim Donofrio or me getting fat off of fisheries issues I would compare our compensation and expenditures to those of the Houston Group's payroll any day of the week.

There is a laundry list of unfavorable rules and regulations proposed by the Houston Group that were stopped by the R.F.A. cold in their tracts. Go back and read all of my previous post in regards to any given issue as we were always giving in depth thoughts on downside of Houston's ridiculous proposal. I don't have the time to expend here answering questions from the obvious detractors that always stir the pot.

I am not surprised to see the same ankle biters here trashing the R.F.A.

I am currently a partner with three other men in a Hedge Fund that has produced 25.6% over the last 15 years. We are launching two Mutual Funds very soon that use this strategy as a basis. I will soon have enough
personal resources to do some things related to fisheries I have always wanted to do for the good of all.

Jim Smarr
R.F.A.
361-463-1558
:texasflag


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## jim smarr (May 21, 2004)

*News back from RFA National on Snapper Issue*

The Recreational Fishing Alliance is working with the Coastal Conservation Association to repair the Magnuson act that is the current Law governing our fisheries per Jim Donofrio a few minutes ago. Jim Donofrio is the Executive Director of the National R.F.A.

I am very pleased with this news.

Jim Smarr
361-463-1558
[email protected]


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## mredman1 (Feb 4, 2007)

*Hedge Funds*

Jim, help me out, I need a bigger boat!
Mike



jim smarr said:


> I am currently a partner with three other men in a Hedge Fund that has produced 25.6% over the last 15 years. We are launching two Mutual Funds very soon that use this strategy as a basis. I will soon have enough
> personal resources to do some things related to fisheries I have always wanted to do for the good of all.
> 
> Jim Smarr
> ...


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## hog (May 17, 2006)




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## tpool (Aug 21, 2005)

gater said:


> Wow is right and all this time the Snapper have been eating each other


 At least the kingfish are getting bigger eating all of those snapper and no tournaments! Hahahahaha!!! No reason to go offshore unless you go 130mi!!! Pure sickening to my stomach!

T-BONE


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## kinja (May 21, 2004)

RFA sucked then and sucks worse now. They were a ******** .org just lining the elites pockets. Tom Hilton is the last man standing. What an effort buddy. -T


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## rodsnscrews (May 4, 2006)

Pattillo- go back in your hole!


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