# Guess all our deer died, notice to anyone who hunts on FM 1024



## dwhite (Jul 11, 2007)

Well i verified a few outbreaks with some people down there. We have lost all our deer, which included several 130 class bucks we were letting grow. If this is a repost sorry, i never saw it before. Lots of money on protein down the tube, not to mention every other lease expense. We went from seeing at least 10 deer a sitting to nothing. There was one ranch 4 miles west of us that got completely wiped out, including some llamas and a few blackbucks.....Sucks!!


Anthrax??? 
Background 
Currently, there is a large-scale epizootic (outbreak) of anthrax occurring in numerous southwestern counties of Texas, including (but potentially not limited to) Val Verde, Uvalde, Kinney, Real, and Edwards. Most of the properties with reported cases in livestock and deer are located north of US 90 and within an approximately 80-mile radius of Del Rio. Two suspected cases (deer) were located on Kickapoo Caverns State Park. 
Anthrax is an infectious disease of mammals, including humans, and is caused by the bacterium Bacillus anthracis. The disease is almost always fatal in deer and livestock. In humans, anthrax is treatable at early stages with antibiotics, but it CAN BE FATAL if it is not treated. Livestock can be vaccinated; producers in anthrax-endemic counties typically vaccinate. Humans can be vaccinated; however, vaccination is not typically recommended unless individuals are at high risk of infection (military personnel stationed in the Middle-east where anthrax could be used as a biological weapon). 
Common sense is your best ally in dealing with anthrax. If you locate a live animal or carcass and suspect anthrax, do not touch it. If you do not know what you are doing, find someone who does. Texas Animal Health Commission can provide information on animal cases. Texas Department of Health provides information on human cases. 
There are three types of infections possible in humans: (1) cutaneous (skin), (2) inhalational (lungs), and (3) gastro-intestinal (stomach). 
Cutaneous anthrax is the most common form of the disease and may result from contact with infected materials (especially body fluids from an infected carcass). Infection is more likely if you have open wounds on your skin. After an incubation period of 1 to 10 days, there will be a blister-like lesion at the site of infection that eventually turns black. Cutaneous anthrax is readily treatable (even if lesions are apparent) with antibiotics. If personnel have been exposed and develop this type of lesion, they should seek medical attention immediately. 
Inhalational anthrax is less likely to occur, but is more serious. After incubation (1 - 10 days), the individual may exhibit flu-like symptoms (fever, tiredness, cough, chest pain). Inhalational anthrax progresses very quickly; without early treatment it is fatal. If personnel have been exposed and develop any of these symptoms, they must seek medical attention immediately. 
Gastro-intestinal anthrax results from consuming undercooked meat from an infected animal. This type of anthrax is extremely rare. Typical symptoms include gastro-intestinal distress (stomach ache/cramping, etc.). 
Anthrax bacteria reside in the soil in many regions of Texas, but epizootics are more frequent in the counties mentioned above. During the warm summer months, when there are rapid changes in climatic conditions (alternating periods of rain and drought), spores of the bacterium can be found at the soil surface and on low-level vegetation where they are readily available for ingestion by livestock/wildlife. The incubation period is between 1 and 10 days. After the onset of clinical signs, livestock/wildlife die very rapidly, in as little as 3-4 hours. Clinical signs include depression, lethargy, and staggering; animals may try to get to water. Live animals often are not found. The first indication of an outbreak on an individual property typically is when carcasses are located. Often, the carcass will appear to be from an otherwise healthy-looking animal (no signs of prolonged illness). 
What To Do... 
If you locate a carcass (or animal displaying clinical symptoms), do not touch or move it. Under no circumstances should you attempt a necropsy. 
Make a determination (to the best of your ability) of how fresh the carcass is. 
Contact the Texas Animal Health Commission (TAHC, numbers listed below) for further instructions. If possible, they will send a veterinarian to collect a sample for laboratory confirmation. The carcass will then need to be burned in place. 
Reporting 
Anthrax is a reportable disease in Texas. Suspected animal cases must be reported to the Texas Animal Health Commission. Suspected human cases must be reported to the Texas Department of Health. 
Contact Information 
Texas Animal Health Commission
Regional Office in Beeville (counties in the current outbreak): 1-800-658-6570
Austin Headquarters: 1-800-550-8242 
Texas Department of Health
Austin Headquarters (infectious diseases): (800) 252-8239 
Online Information 
Confirmed animal cases in Texas: Texas Department of Health. 
Texas Animal Health Commission. 
CDC frequently asked questions on anthrax. 
USDA - APHIS fact sheet on anthrax.


----------



## Die Terrorists Die (Sep 18, 2009)

*Thanks*

Man that really stinks. My Father in Law is headed up to RockSprings this weekend. I'll forward him this post.


----------



## dwhite (Jul 11, 2007)

Yeah it does! We tried to do things right and mother nature screwed us but it happens...anyone have some lease openings!? Looking anywhere. I will join a group or have my own group and we can take over a pasture. I can age deer on hoof, responsible hunter, dont mind letting deer walk to grow up!


----------



## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

You would think that with an outbreak bad enough to lose that many deer there would be signs. Have you noticed a lot of bones/carcasses? We have seen about 1/2 the deer we saw last year but I think it is just because we had such a heavy acorn crop and heavy browse from all the rain we got all spring/summer. Our deer in Junction have just started coming to feeders in the last couple of weeks. Maybe try a spotlight survey? Good luck.


----------



## CoastalOutfitters (Aug 20, 2004)

take the stuff seriously, it is transferrable to humans.........

sheep and hogs as well

we had a lease in Concan and got hit one year........

if you find dead animals call Texas Dept. of Agric. and report it.


----------



## dwhite (Jul 11, 2007)

Spoke with Biologist for the area along with GW's and some ranchers...most deer that die you wont find they said. They get in the thickest thicket possible and lay down under the trees/brush to hide. I havent had time to look for them but if i do find one it will be reported. Its def a disease and not just lack of deer. Several ranches just down the road from us lost their entire deer herd including some llamas and a few blackbucks. One rancher lost a mule as well. Just chaps my arse that TPWD hasnt made a bigger deal of this but on the other hand they dont know if the ranchers dont report it, which very few due cuz they dont want to lose money.


----------



## OxbowOutfitters (Feb 17, 2006)

We Just sent 2 deer to the Lab for Cronic Waste'n disease..I'll find out what county thats from & post it if its a real threat


----------



## tycoon (May 12, 2008)

We hunt off of 1024 27 miles from Comstock. Several decent deer have been killed but we haven't seen the amount of deer that we have in the past. I've made 2 trips and came back empty handed both times. Not even gonna waste the time going back. How long does it take to recover from anthrax?


----------



## dwhite (Jul 11, 2007)

tycoon said:


> We hunt off of 1024 27 miles from Comstock. Several decent deer have been killed but we haven't seen the amount of deer that we have in the past. I've made 2 trips and came back empty handed both times. Not even gonna waste the time going back. How long does it take to recover from anthrax?


Since yall are still seeing deer i wouldnt think it would be that bad. We have seen nothing but ONE BUTTON BUCK...everything else is gone
4 years, if it ever does...some say 3, others have said it never will, i dunno. Im not hanging around to find out.


----------



## Justin Timberleg (Jun 16, 2009)

Anthrax nailed our lease in Kinney County/Brackettville off 332 about 8-9 years ago.. I took two years to regularly see deer again and four years to get back to normal, now our hunting is tremendous and have had no problems bouncing back form the outbreak.. We are a low fence small ranch, with year around full feeders and year round natural water..


----------



## Stumpgrinder (Feb 18, 2006)

Justin Timberleg said:


> Anthrax nailed our lease in Kinney County/Brackettville off 332 about 8-9 years ago.. I took two years to regularly see deer again and four years to get back to normal, now our hunting is tremendous and have had no problems bouncing back form the outbreak.. We are a low fence small ranch, with year around full feeders and year round natural water..


same thing happened to us, same area.

It was heartbreaking because we had let em walk and shot the junk for 5 years and the place was really getting right.


----------



## Zereaux (Jul 18, 2006)

Justin Timberleg said:


> Anthrax nailed our lease in Kinney County/Brackettville off 332 about 8-9 years ago.. I took two years to regularly see deer again and four years to get back to normal, now our hunting is tremendous and have had no problems bouncing back form the outbreak.. We are a low fence small ranch, with year around full feeders and year round natural water..


We hunt off 3008 about 5 miles north of 90 and got hit hard too...
doesn't seem like it 8-9 years ago, I was thinking 2003 or 2004.
Anyway, last year was good and this year has been even better.

Leaving in the morning to finish out the season...


----------



## Bucksnort (Jun 29, 2004)

There is an antibiotic feed you can mix with the protein. Don't recall what it is but Borderbandit feeds it at the Cueva Ranch in Del Rio. They are high fence and you would probably be spinning your wheels on a low fence operation.


----------



## Zereaux (Jul 18, 2006)

Yeah, we fed with that up until this year...figures...


----------



## RICK10 (Jul 27, 2008)

Chlortetracycline (*CTC*) is probably the anitboiotic you are talking about. I beleive you have to have a vet perscribe it to have CTC put in deer feed but you can put it in CATTLE FEED with out a perscription.


----------



## mickey839 (Jun 10, 2006)

I would be very surprised if it was Anthrax, as its usually dormant in cold weather. You typically see anthrax May-September. You usually need several weeks of hot, dry weather after already having cool, wet weather to get the spores to become active...usually temps in the 50s and lower makes them dormant. The best set up for Anthrax is a cool, wet Spring followed by a dry, hot summer.

Just curious, did somebody tell you it was Anthrax, or is it just a guess? I looked all over the Texas Animal Health Commission's website (the agency responsible for handling reports of livestock disease) and haven't found anything recent on there regarding Anthrax. The last mention was August of 2009 in Sutton County. 

My lease is in NE Val Verde County and our herd is healthy. I know in 2003 or 2004 we had a big die-off. A couple years later we were back to normal, but I also know our land owner was doing TTT restocking.

Anyway, whatever it is, it really sucks and I feel bad for you guys!


----------



## txdougman (Jul 12, 2005)

We had a aweful season in Juno...off 163. 12 of us, 5k acres, saw very few deer,mostly young deer, hardly any over 2.5. lots of sits saw nada. does are slim to none. We too are wondering. Didn't see any reported anthrax cases.


----------



## LongRodMaster (Mar 5, 2005)

Denis no offence man but We have been all over our pasture and have only found one carcass and it was back in sept. You saw pics at my feeders in august with 4 to 11 bucks in a pic. You telling me in 3 months we had that bad of a die off and none of us are finding dead animals? After the snow and rains we had I did some scouting there were fresh tracks every where except anywhere near a feeder. Hell it muct have killed of the ***** and hogs as well because they quit comming. I was just out last weeked and checked cameras they are just now starting to hit the feeders the hogs are back and so are the *****. 


When did we get a new Biologist for our area because ours retired before last season and hadnt been replaced yet the last time I talked to the GW's. I am as frustrated as every one else you know I had high hopes but I have seen nothing to support a die off.


----------



## coogerpop (Sep 3, 2009)

tycoon said:


> We hunt off of 1024 27 miles from Comstock. Several decent deer have been killed but we haven't seen the amount of deer that we have in the past. I've made 2 trips and came back empty handed both times. Not even gonna waste the time going back. How long does it take to recover from anthrax?


 We hunted near Alta Loma for 15 years and were hit by anthrax twice...both times it just about wiped out the deer herds...5-7 years for recovery...and the life of the anthrax spores is 99 years...so all you are doing is waiting till the next spring after a wet winter for the spores to be pushed up on the new forbes...and it starts all over again...only burning the dead animals willkill the spores and as stated ,most of the dead animals are never seen....we finall just left and moved down south...


----------



## LongRodMaster (Mar 5, 2005)

Any proof on this? So far I have only found 1 confirmed case this year in Texas.


----------



## dwhite (Jul 11, 2007)

There is a ranch 4 miles down the road that is 37K acres and lost all animals, including llamas and some blackbucks. We have NO tracks and you have seen our deer at our feeders. They did not dissappear after season started. It has been this way since JULY! Which is exactly the time frame that we had all our rain and then back to the 100 degree days. Which is when the anthrax would take place, during the hot months. I have done lots of research and had many phone conversations with many people. TPWD has an article on their website about it this year. There is a guy who fills feeders for hunters that lives in the area and he said several of the ranches in the area has found the dead deer and no feed has been consumed. And like i said before, like the gw's and bio's told me, you will NOT find majority of the carcasses as they usually get up in the thickets where they cant be bothered. LongRod, you know how much protein we were feeding. In july it completely stopped. No tracks, no deer pics, nothing. We have seen 2 deer all year.


----------



## dwhite (Jul 11, 2007)

Also you call TPWD, there is an area Bio. Anthrax kills in only a few days. Also just cuz it got us doesnt mean it hit you. Anthrax happens in spotty areas. Its either in the ground or it isnt. Ya'll can believe what ya will, no offense intended, but i have done lots of research on this and this is the conclusion we have come to. We were filling feeders every month. In 4 weeks we went from deer to absolutely nothing. Thats not normal, no matter how much rain we got, deer have always come to our feeders.


----------



## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

would it affect axis deer? or can it be selective and only hurt whitetail?


----------



## dwhite (Jul 11, 2007)

I dont see why it wouldnt as there were some blackbuck does killed but i'm not 100% on that.


----------



## Arlon (Feb 8, 2005)

What's the freal pig population like out there? Pigs are one of the culprits in spreading Anthrax from their rooting.

SOme interesting info on pigs: http://icwdm.org/publications/pdf/feral%20pig/txferalhogs.pdf


----------



## dwhite (Jul 11, 2007)

slim to none...few pastures have them but we havent seen one on ours.


----------



## Treybig23 (Dec 26, 2007)

I hunt 26.5 miles north of Comstock and have not seen quite the numbers of does. As far as bucks, now thats a different story. I have probally had the best year as far as decent bucks. Multiple 10's and 11's. Just got back from lease couple days ago.

Sorry bout your loss Dwhite.


----------



## LongRodMaster (Mar 5, 2005)

I dont see how it could wipe you guys out and i got deer and right across the street. Literaly 500yds and across the street from your pasture. 

Who is the Bio and GW's you talked to I would like to talk to them as I said before the last info I had was our Bio retired last year prior to the season opener and had not been replaced yet.


----------



## LongRodMaster (Mar 5, 2005)

TAHC has no reports of anthrax in ValVerde county how can TPWD state there is an outbreak and TAHC not have any reports of anthrax when they are the governing body for animal health and dieses out breaks for Texas?


----------



## Ole Big (Aug 10, 2009)

I always wondered what would happen if the protein being fed was bad......


----------



## Ducksmasher (Jul 21, 2005)

our place is 20 miles north on 1051 from 83 between camp wood and garner.. no anthrax problem this year... years back, we would find and burn em not this year. Id suggest you check the date on that news release, maybe even provide a link..


----------



## Richlyn Concepts (May 12, 2006)

We are on 1050, 3 miles from Garner and 6 hunters only saw 3 live deer while sitting on the stand and out of 6 cameras we only saw 6 deer. This is from Feb. 2009 to Jan. 2010. 2 of those deer were seen during Thanksgiving. I have never hunted in West Texas a saw so few deer. The corn just piled up under the feeders and our alfalfa hay was not touched.


----------



## LongRodMaster (Mar 5, 2005)

All i know is from every one I have talked to this year if it is anthrax i would be scared to death because its one hell of a break out and has seemed to have taken out over 50% of our state total herd.


----------



## dwhite (Jul 11, 2007)

LongRodMaster said:


> All i know is from every one I have talked to this year if it is anthrax i would be scared to death because its one hell of a break out and has seemed to have taken out over 50% of our state total herd.


There have been major outbreaks before in our deer herd, so i wouldnt be suprised but some areas are just slow due to acorns, we dont have oaks!

Well you can be skeptical, its your choice but i know our deer do not just freaking dissappear in a matter of 4 weeks!!! If you can tell me where they went go ahead man cuz we have seen only one deer all year and we hunt hard. Call TPWD and ask for the biologist for val verde county...they will give you the number. His name is ryan. You really think the ranchers will make this publicly known?? NO. It will hurt their income so y tell the state about it. The article i posted is from TPWD. Like i said you can believe what you will, i know what happened and im certain of it. I have researched on it and talked to lots of people. There was also an outbreak in crockett county so you may want to find other sources of info. We are pulling our stuff out, hope yall stay and its great next year man but we arent doing it. Deer DO NOT DISSAPEAR in a matter of 4 weeks unless something drastic happened. WE DO NOT ONLY SEE ONE deer all year, regardless of the weather out there. We have hunted that area for 5 years and this is not just about the rain and the browse. NO TRACKS, NO PICS, NOTHING. Anyways best of luck to who all that stay, i am done justifying as i have talked to enough people to find out what i believe is happening. If im wrong so be it but i dont believe so.


----------



## dwhite (Jul 11, 2007)

This has to do with the blue hills area, im not referring to any other part of the state.


----------



## Texas T (May 21, 2004)

http://2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/showthread.php?t=249979


----------



## dwhite (Jul 11, 2007)

This came from a friend in the area....
Today, about 20 minutes ago actually, I talked with a guy who has a place on FM 1024 around the cutoff to FM 163 and he said he lost a bunch of deer and a mule. He had a necropsy done on the mule by the vet in Ozona and the vet confirmed anthrax.

Oh and here is something from TAHC to show that it happens in small pockets....

"Anthrax 'hot spots' in a pasture are usually limited to very small areas," explained Dr. Hillman.
To prevent additional soil contamination, he said TAHC regulations require that animals dead
from anthrax be burned, along with their bedding and manure. This prevents wild pigs, coyotes,
dogs or other predators from dragging carcasses (and the accompanying anthrax bacteria) from
one pasture to another. In severe droughts, that is not always possible, and a waiver of the​regulations and alternative disposal may be requested from the TAHC.


----------



## Arlon (Feb 8, 2005)

Maybe the neighbors are putting a little molasses on their corn.. (-:}
How many carcases have been found?


----------



## Capt. Dustin Lee (Jan 16, 2006)

I can tell you guys that I have been to dwhite's lease and from the cut off road to his lease on FM 1024 you can count over 100 deer on the side of the road at night everytime till this hunting season. This hunting season I have been up there 2 times. The first time was during Nov. when it snowed down here so it was cold and a full moon. The deer should have been all over the side of the road right? Nope, only counted 3 total that night. Next time I went back up there we counted a total of 11 deer. Now how come in the past years we count over 100 deer and this year the best was 11? Also during every hunt you would see plenty of deer and now this year you will not see any? Sounds like something is killing the $#!^ out of them to me. No way they are all staying and eating acorns since there are not hardly any oaks in the area. Also deer hunting is a big piece of the pie for folks around those areas to make money and they need all the help they can get ,so I would not be suprised if it is being kept hush hush right now.

Capt. Dustin Lee
Fish'N Addiction Guide Service
www.TexasBigFish.com
www.MatagordaBayFishingGuide.com 
979-236-6203

Team Brown Lures, Fish -N- Hunt, Kubala Kustom Rods, Midcoastproducts., Wiley X and Stinky Pants Stringers.


----------



## Arlon (Feb 8, 2005)

Well, if they where all over the sides of the road, that might explain it. Maybe you have a poaching issue out there to go along with everything else..


----------



## Capt. Dustin Lee (Jan 16, 2006)

Arlon said:


> Well, if they where all over the sides of the road, that might explain it. Maybe you have a poaching issue out there to go along with everything else..


That would be very hard to pull off killing that many deer I would think with as much as you see the Border Patrol hiding. Seems like they would call the GW and put an end to poaching but you never know. Not only that but that is just a small number of the deer population that is beeing seen on the sides of the road. Where did all the ones that are way off the road go that never go and stand out there like the bigger and smarter bucks?

Capt. Dustin Lee
Fish'N Addiction Guide Service
www.TexasBigFish.com
www.MatagordaBayFishingGuide.com 
979-236-6203

Team Brown Lures, Fish -N- Hunt, Kubala Kustom Rods, Midcoastproducts., Wiley X and Stinky Pants Stringers.


----------



## LongRodMaster (Mar 5, 2005)

Capt. Dustin Lee said:


> I can tell you guys that I have been to dwhite's lease and from the cut off road to his lease on FM 1024 you can count over 100 deer on the side of the road at night everytime till this hunting season. This hunting season I have been up there 2 times. The first time was during Nov. when it snowed down here so it was cold and a full moon. The deer should have been all over the side of the road right? Nope, only counted 3 total that night. Next time I went back up there we counted a total of 11 deer. Now how come in the past years we count over 100 deer and this year the best was 11? Also during every hunt you would see plenty of deer and now this year you will not see any? Sounds like something is killing the $#!^ out of them to me. No way they are all staying and eating acorns since there are not hardly any oaks in the area. Also deer hunting is a big piece of the pie for folks around those areas to make money and they need all the help they can get ,so I would not be suprised if it is being kept hush hush right now.
> 
> Capt. Dustin Lee
> Fish'N Addiction Guide Service
> ...


I am well aware of the ranch and yall are on pasture #1 I am on pasture #4 There are alot more scrub oaks out there than you believe believe me I have seen them and was in aww of the crop that those tiny little oaks would produce. I was also there the week from thanksgiving to the 5th. We didnt not see many animals and the ones i saw walked over the piled up corn under the feeders.

I understand the frustration as I know both our pastures had high hopes this year with all the protien we were feeding but im not going to go making drawing conclusions with nothing to support it. We have one watering hole on our pasture and anthrax takes 3 to 4 hours from the onset of symptoms to kill an animal and they tend to seek out water and we scout our pasture alot and like said 1 dead deer back in sept.

As for the roads and counting deer my counts were any where from 57 to 78 deer from Ozona to the camp so dont know what to tell you.


----------



## Capt. Dustin Lee (Jan 16, 2006)

LongRodMaster said:


> I am well aware of the ranch and yall are on pasture #1 I am on pasture #4 There are alot more scrub oaks out there than you believe believe me I have seen them and was in aww of the crop that those tiny little oaks would produce. I was also there the week from thanksgiving to the 5th. We didnt not see many animals and the ones i saw walked over the piled up corn under the feeders.
> 
> I understand the frustration as I know both our pastures had high hopes this year with all the protien we were feeding but im not going to go making drawing conclusions with nothing to support it. We have one watering hole on our pasture and anthrax takes 3 to 4 hours from the onset of symptoms to kill an animal and they tend to seek out water and we scout our pasture alot and like said 1 dead deer back in sept.
> 
> As for the roads and counting deer my counts were any where from 57 to 78 deer from Ozona to the camp so dont know what to tell you.


Not sure what is going on either but something is going on. Deer dont just lay under a small oak eating for months and not moving. No deer seen and very little tracks just not adding up. Hope next year is better for you guys and hope it's not an Anthrax deal going on. And far as the roads I'm talking about from Del Rio to the camp.

Capt. Dustin Lee
Fish'N Addiction Guide Service
www.TexasBigFish.com
www.MatagordaBayFishingGuide.com 
979-236-6203

Team Brown Lures, Fish -N- Hunt, Kubala Kustom Rods, Midcoastproducts., Wiley X and Stinky Pants Stringers.


----------



## dwhite (Jul 11, 2007)

Have you not read what i have written and shown you? There is proof. I dont make stuff up in my head to jack with people. So what you havent found a deer carcass...YOU WONT! Every bio and gw has told me that, you saying they are wrong too? We have several water stations on our place as we provide water so no they wont be in one spot.
I know what oaks we have and there arent enough to keep our entire deer population going all dang year. I have walked, i have sat all day, i have rattled, everything possible, hunted the canyons, the flats, all of it. NOTHING! If the deer are there you will at least jump them when walking!! NOT HAPPENING! Not a single **** track. I have shown you plenty to support but you dont wanna see it man...i hope for yalls sake it isnt but there is PROOF and i have given it to ya, if you want to accept or not is up to you. Your gonna tell me 10 bucks all at 3.5 and about 30 different does, not to mention young bucks are just gonna up and dissappear in a matter of a few weeks? NO! Not happening man, something killed them and it happened in July. Ranchers WILL NOT for the most part make it public! What and why does it benefit them to do that? I have had enough, we are outta there and on to better things. Best of luck.

Oh and BTW my dad comes up from ozona to the juno road and has always seen deer there in the past...most he has counted all year is 15 on a full moon


----------



## LongRodMaster (Mar 5, 2005)

well just talked to the GW for our area on the phone and he said he has not heard of any anthrax cases this year nor had any of the others in the office waiting on a call back from the lead bio now. Im not calling you out man I am just trying to find out my self as I lso have a vested intrest only I have not been able to support any claims of an anthrax break out this year from TAHC or the GW's maybe the Biologist has some differnt story but so far I have not found anything. Whats the names of the GW's you talked to so I can try to get in contact with them?


----------



## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

hurry up and get this figured out for us... dejavu all over again from the pilar posts.. LOL


----------



## dwhite (Jul 11, 2007)

My dad talked with the GW so im not sure...I hear ya man, i guess im just really frustrated with all the money we spent and nothing to show for it, and that dont mean us actually shooting something, pics being taken would have been sufficient...also talked with the ag extension agency and they said the same thing. I do know that not all cases get reported and they are going to be hush hush bout it so they dont lose $$$, GW even told my dad that. They told my dad it usually happens on the other side of devils river but they had heard of it on our side this year but nothing has been "officially" reported. There is proven history of it out there for sure. TAHC has a case confirmed in Crockett County, close to us, so that would be southern part, or southwest part. They said you will see young deer as they are pushed away from the feeders by older ones so they dont get it as easily. Also said you should move your feeders every year to help prevent it. All i know is i hunted my arse off and havent seen ****. If i had even jumped deer while stalking or otherwise i would understand they just arent coming to feeders but there is nothing at all. Not even a fresh track! We would stalk and rattle last year and always jumped a deer or two on our way in to where we were going to rattle. Thats the part that gets me. We asked them what it could be and they straight up said well there is a lot of cases of anthrax and or blue tongue out there. We told them how fast our deer had dissappeared and they said then it is probably anthrax. Its very disheartening to us as you know we put a LOT of protein out. We wasted 15 bags as they have been sitting in the feeders since July. The said they may pass corn but generally they wont pass the protein during the summer. This could be isolated a few areas but i honestly feel it happened on our pasture. I was told by some people that Rancho Grande got into some too, i dont know about that though. Talked to ranchers in Del Rio and Ozona and several had said they lost deer and a few cows/goats and had to vaccinate their livestock quickly. To me that is confirmation enough, no matter what TPWD or TAHC has on their website. We had several VERY well traveled game trails in our canyons and they are all grown up. You couldnt walk down there without seeing deer feces all over the place. This year there is nothing, trail grown up and no deer feces anywhere. To me that says the deer arent even existent on our place and that something drastic has happened. I never had feed left at my two stands and since July its just piling up and they arent even coming to protein feeders.


----------



## gloveboy (Jan 6, 2005)

*Just a bad year...*

We hunt right at the FM1024 and Juno rd. cut-off. (The Pocket) We own the land so no rancher to deal with, and no untold stories. It has been a bad year in general, only two weeks out of the season we saw plenty of deer. We have had hogs on our place for the first time this year. Record amount of rainfall. Grass taller then ever. It is a combination of reasons why the deer are not moving or coming to the feeders as in the past years. The game wardens that have visited us this year have not said anything about Anthrax. They have only talked about it being a off year. My son hunted the final weekend and saw plenty of bucks and does. He did mention how when he went to Del Rio Sat. night that he saw between 30-45 deer from our gate to about 15 miles south on 1024 and from then on to hwy 90 he only saw 2. That was very strange!
I truly believe it is just a off year! 
Bobby


----------



## dwhite (Jul 11, 2007)

I believe it is on some properties but not on ours...you dont hunt as much as we did, somtimes five day trips, and only see one deer all year.


----------



## gloveboy (Jan 6, 2005)

58 hunting days for the gun season and we had someone on the place hunting 32 days...yes we hunt a lot!!


----------



## dwhite (Jul 11, 2007)

No i wasnt saying you dont hunt a lot...i was saying that you (as in us) dont hunt as much as we did and only see one deer all year....sorry bout that.


----------



## dwhite (Jul 11, 2007)

BTW i called a vet in Ozona and the DVM did diagnose a mule with anthrax as well...which was on the large ranch i was talking about...was it publicized or reported nooo...imagine that...Believe what you will but i have heard enough and said enough.


----------



## Auer Power (Jun 16, 2009)

gloveboy said:


> 58 hunting days for the gun season and we had someone on the place hunting 32 days...yes we hunt a lot!!





dwhite said:


> No i wasnt saying you dont hunt a lot...i was saying that you (as in us) dont hunt as much as we did and only see one deer all year....sorry bout that.


Y'all quit fighting... referbates! :rotfl:
Gotta call you when i get off dwhite.


----------



## dwhite (Jul 11, 2007)

Auer Power said:


> Y'all quit fighting... referbates! :rotfl:
> Gotta call you when i get off dwhite.


Not fighting *****, just misunderstood each other LOL
and i got something for you! :slimer:


----------



## LongRodMaster (Mar 5, 2005)

Well talked to the Bio for our area Ryan Scmidt and he claims it is a posability but they have no confirmation or evidence of it other than reports of low numbers seen this year. 

I guess all I can tell you is good luck next year and if we can stay on next year will let you know how it turns out D.


----------



## Buck Master (Oct 19, 2004)

RICK10 said:


> Chlortetracycline (*CTC*) is probably the anitboiotic you are talking about. I beleive you have to have a vet perscribe it to have CTC put in deer feed but you can put it in CATTLE FEED with out a perscription.


This is exactly what we use in our protien and yes you do have to have a script to have it mixed in your feed. I think any feed mill can do it and most of the vets in the anthrax area will have no problem writing you a script for the feed mill. Just have to check with them and see what the criteria is...normally one confirmed case of anthrax on the ranch. June, July, August and Sept. are the prime months for outbreaks. Hot spells following recent heavy rains.....also helps the deer and horse flies hatch in the standing water following the rains. These in turn, my opinion of course, help spread the disease from deer to deer. Kinda like a "dirty needle". Feed on one infected host and then feed on a healthy deer spreading the disease.

Feeding the CTC at Rancho Cueva has definately helped our herd and several other ranches around us.


----------



## dwhite (Jul 11, 2007)

LongRodMaster said:


> Well talked to the Bio for our area Ryan Scmidt and he claims it is a posability but they have no confirmation or evidence of it other than reports of low numbers seen this year.
> 
> I guess all I can tell you is good luck next year and if we can stay on next year will let you know how it turns out D.


I talked with the TAHC guy for our area yesterday and told him what had happened and that it had happened in July. He agrees that it definitely looks like it. He also said you will hardly NEVER find the dead deer, just on occassion. He also said the vets and ranchers know what it looks like so for the most part they just vaccinate their livestock and go on about business without reporting it, like i had said earlier. In fact, after the vet confirmed the case in Ozona, I asked him if he had heard about it and he said no. GW said that deer from other areas will move in quickly so it may not be too bad but im not feeding my deer just to have them die off. Hope it turns out well for yall next year and best of luck.


----------



## dwhite (Jul 11, 2007)

Capt. Lee got an interesting email last night from someone who isnt a member and it was sent to him as the gentleman could not find my email address. He brought up several points that I know are true and just havent been able to discuss here yet due to the fact of trying to provide evidence that what i am saying is true. Now that i am done with that i will say what else i learned from this year and what the gentleman pointed out as well.
When i spoke with bio's and gw's all said a problem is created when you try to feed and manage a deer herd out there. That area should possess no more than 1 deer per every 20-24 (got different numbers) acres. And when deer are passed and not shot it creates an overpopulation of deer in an area. Also that when you feed protein like we did it creates a mass congregation of deer at the feeders which then makes the disease more highly transferrable. Which is another reason they said to move feeders every year. So in essence we are partly to blame for what has happened. We are not responsible for anthrax but are responsible for the higher death toll as we had deer all over our protein all summer. We only shot 8 does last year and one nice buck but other than that we still had deer all over the place.
He also stated his hatred (for lack of a better word) for people feeding such as this and hunting over feeders. Said shooting a deer at a feeder is no different than shooting a domestic animal. I am saying this as i hope he does read it. All i can say is to each their own. I can say that the bucks i have shot have never been at feeders but have been chasing does or just cutting through the area. The protein we feed is just to help our deer. To each their own and i hope you understand my point of view as clearly as i have yours.


----------



## Tom_in_SA (Feb 19, 2008)

Borderbandit said:


> This is exactly what we use in our protien and yes you do have to have a script to have it mixed in your feed. I think any feed mill can do it and most of the vets in the anthrax area will have no problem writing you a script for the feed mill. Just have to check with them and see what the criteria is...normally one confirmed case of anthrax on the ranch. June, July, August and Sept. are the prime months for outbreaks. Hot spells following recent heavy rains.....also helps the deer and horse flies hatch in the standing water following the rains. These in turn, my opinion of course, help spread the disease from deer to deer. Kinda like a "dirty needle". Feed on one infected host and then feed on a healthy deer spreading the disease.
> 
> Feeding the CTC at Rancho Cueva has definately helped our herd and several other ranches around us.


That sounds real good, about how much does it cost? I need to find out.


----------



## Tom_in_SA (Feb 19, 2008)

Here's the Tx Anim. Health Comm. report link people referred to above:
http://www.tahc.state.tx.us/news/pr/2009/2009Aug_AnthraxDetectedInCrockettCounty.pdf

Here's the Texas Parks and Wildlife story about the big anthrax outbreak:

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/landwater/land/habitats/faq/diseases/disease7.phtml


----------



## LongRodMaster (Mar 5, 2005)

dwhite said:


> Capt. Lee got an interesting email last night from someone who isnt a member and it was sent to him as the gentleman could not find my email address. He brought up several points that I know are true and just havent been able to discuss here yet due to the fact of trying to provide evidence that what i am saying is true. Now that i am done with that i will say what else i learned from this year and what the gentleman pointed out as well.
> When i spoke with bio's and gw's all said a problem is created when you try to feed and manage a deer herd out there. That area should possess no more than 1 deer per every 20-24 (got different numbers) acres. And when deer are passed and not shot it creates an overpopulation of deer in an area. Also that when you feed protein like we did it creates a mass congregation of deer at the feeders which then makes the disease more highly transferrable. Which is another reason they said to move feeders every year. So in essence we are partly to blame for what has happened. We are not responsible for anthrax but are responsible for the higher death toll as we had deer all over our protein all summer. We only shot 8 does last year and one nice buck but other than that we still had deer all over the place.
> He also stated his hatred (for lack of a better word) for people feeding such as this and hunting over feeders. Said shooting a deer at a feeder is no different than shooting a domestic animal. I am saying this as i hope he does read it. All i can say is to each their own. I can say that the bucks i have shot have never been at feeders but have been chasing does or just cutting through the area. The protein we feed is just to help our deer. To each their own and i hope you understand my point of view as clearly as i have yours.


I agree the heavy feeding increases the herd and thus creates a worse problem one of the reason we take so many animals on our 2200 acre track last year we took 32 deer off the place with only 2 being mature bucks and didnt hardly make a dent. I have already requested the info for TPWD so I can try and get the ranch managed better I hope this years frustrations help me convince the land owners to take part in it.


----------



## dwhite (Jul 11, 2007)

I doubt it will to be honest man. All they want is their money and if someone will lease it without them having to do anything all the better. Foreman is always guiding so i dont believe it matters much to them either. Could be a really great place is the bad part.


----------



## mickey839 (Jun 10, 2006)

dwhite said:


> That area should possess no more than 1 deer per every 20-24 (got different numbers) acres.


Funny you should mention those population densities. We hunt in NE Val Verde County (anthrax prone) and our TPWD Biologist wants us to have a high density deer herd. This year they said ours is 1 deer for every 7 acres, according to spotlight surveys. Last year it was 1 deer for every 13 acres. Her (some of you may know the HER TPWD biologist I'm referring to) position is that a die-off is inevitable (drought, disease, anthrax, etc.) and that when it happens, hopefully there will still be a huntable population if we have a high deer population. I would just think if you have more deer, you would have more die... She also wants us to have a 2:1 doe to buck ratio, that way if a die-off occurs, we'd have a heavy doe population to facilitate repopulation. But I don't know, I'm no biologist...just gotta trust she knows what she's doing...


----------



## LongRodMaster (Mar 5, 2005)

Is this Joyce your talking about I have yet to talk to her.


----------



## Tom_in_SA (Feb 19, 2008)

LongRodMaster, you can manage your lease more stringently if you want. I've read some deer management stuff like what Joyce is quoted as saying above. Does to buck ratio of 2:1 makes for better recovery in a die off. Real dense does make a die off more likely, but less dense is below carrying capacity. I've thought the optimal density is to go over carrying capacity in the spring and just below it in the fall. Carrying capacity has to be determined from the habitat and other animals there. I'm thinking Joyce does know all that stuff better than most, since she's a biologist.


----------



## mickey839 (Jun 10, 2006)

LongRodMaster said:


> Is this Joyce your talking about I have yet to talk to her.


yes it is


----------

