# guide impacts



## Spots and Dots (May 23, 2004)

This post is not meant to start a pizzing contest with the local guides/outfitters.

I am curious what others folks thoughts are on the impact of guides/lodges/outfitters on the resource.




My jury is still out, but is seems that lodge outfits that run even 1 trip/day, with 3 customers can, ultimately, harvest alot of fish. If you multiply the effect of the really succesful outfitters that number increases several fold.



I'm not bashing the outfitters gigs (heck, I might even be a tad jealous), but harvesting 50+ trout a day adds up quick. I mean, I bet a majority of fishermen don't kill 50 fish a month.



I know some of the outfitters give alot back........donations to CCA, restocking programs, etc. I just wonder if they should have to live by a different set of rules that plain old recreational anglers.


Like I said, my mind isn't made up, and I'm not trying to wage war against any of these guys. I've met many of them, and think highly of several of them.



thoughts?


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## Mattsfishin (Aug 23, 2009)

Guides and the deckhands can not harvest any fish. Only the customers can take a limit of fish. A lot of people would never go fishing or would not catch many fish if it was not for guides. We have limits on fish and everything has been put in the formula for the limits and that would be what guides, weekend fishermen, and commercial fishing does to our resources. I am not a guide but guides are part of fishing and should not be attacked. Also most people would never have a chance at a trophy trout if they did not hire a guide. My 2 cents on this.

Matt


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## 100% Texan (Jan 30, 2005)

Spots and Dots said:


> This post is not meant to start a pizzing contest with the local guides/outfitters.
> 
> I am curious what others folks thoughts are on the impact of guides/lodges/outfitters on the resource.
> 
> ...


In all honesty one pod of dolphin's kills more trout in a day than I do in a month easy.So lets put the damage to the resource on who really is killing the most.I also firmly believe that most guides and outfitters help the resource more than hurt it.Just my opinion.


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## Clint Sholmire (Nov 9, 2005)

*guides impact*

I am a guide in Galveston and I believe that alot of people are a little misinformed about what a guide does on a daily basis. I can not speak for all guides in a whole but it is not our only intent to see how many fish we can kill. My best trips are the ones that I take someone out on a trip that has been fishing for a while and just could not figure it out and see that light come on and then they want more. I am friends with quit a bit of other guides on the coast and I know that most of them feel the same. I myself have never run 2 trips in one day and had a limit for everyone on both trips so I believe your tally of fish killed is a little inflated.But on another note if these guides are out catching 50+ trout a day every day then it doesn't sound like there is any shortage of fish. I do agree with some on this matter that it would not bother me if we did lower the limit down some to relieve a little presure on our bays. I would on the other hand like for people to stick with their opinions on the board as well on the water. Case in point , I watched a guy that had so much CCA garb on that it looked like he just came out of a meeting on the water one day rip the hook out of about 5 trout that were too small and just sling there dead carcous in the water and reach for another shrimp and keep catching more with no regard for what he was doing. We as guides will do everything in our power to take care of our way of life and our passion , because thats why most of us became guides in the first place. Good luck to all. Capt. Clint Sholmire


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## jd99problems (Sep 20, 2009)

i'm curious to know how many fish are taken out of the coastal waters everyday by guides.......could that number be why we recreational fishermen have limits as we do?.....dolphins and the fact that guides and deckhands can't keep their limits are not very good arguments.....this will be a great thread.....


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## Spots and Dots (May 23, 2004)

I feel a strong need to make sure that I am not trying to start anything here. Just a thought I had, and continue to ponder (it's pretty boring up here..).


I have no right to judge, and believe if you are following the law - and have 4 custys, or a lodge full of folks, and each one keeps 10 trout and 3 reds, that's fine. My thoughts are possibly out of selfishness, as I wonder what the effect of taking these fish will be for me and my kids in the future.


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## Capt. Hollis Forrester (Jun 17, 2006)

woo hoo "spots" ya created a popcorn thread wether ya wanted it or not. All my clients buy Texas fishing licences, 90% of them are in the CCA. I'd say your numbers are high on the fish taken out per day by each guide. Every guide has his own tactic, some are truly hardcore artificial, wade fisherman only "thats me" very rare to see me drift fising in the bay with a live shrimp unless it's with my wife , it just aint my cup of tea. Yes it hurts me at cleaning tables sometimes, but for the most part it don't. I hate livewells and hardheads, so the fish we do catch are quality for the most part. Dont hammer guides that are out there truly showing folk the artificial method,or live bait, trust me , we are working our ***#s off trying to teach the methods, and have worked for the fish we do have. My fish do not hit the icebox, but my direction for my clients will if they listen.


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## DCW (Aug 3, 2005)

"I know some of the outfitters give alot back........donations to CCA, restocking programs, etc. I just wonder if they should have to live by a different set of rules that plain old recreational anglers."


Now are not their customers rec. fishermen?

Popcorn any one?


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## netboy (Dec 12, 2006)

I have a freind that lives in Brownsville and has fished the Port Isabel area for the last 30 years. He claims the trout fishing is better now than it has ever been in terms of QUALITY fish. He attributes this to the 5 fish limit that was implemented a few years ago. He said some of the guides even like it because they can catch a quick limit of trout and then go after reds or snook, giving their clients more variety and still end up with a nice bag of fillets.

With the increase in fishing pressure all along the coast, maybe we should think about implementing the 5 fish limit coastwide. 
This just my opinion.


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## James Howell (May 21, 2004)

Good Gawd, man , if you did that, what in the world would trout fishermen have to argue over the inet about anymore. Oh, wait.... croaker, corkies, shoreburners, potlickers, kill tournaments, boats that go too fast, what's better at relieving menstrual cramps midol or tylenol, etc. etc.

(BTW, I actually think 5/day coastwide would be plenty, too).


netboy said:


> I have a freind that lives in Brownsville and has fished the Port Isabel area for the last 30 years. He claims the trout fishing is better now than it has ever been in terms of QUALITY fish. He attributes this to the 5 fish limit that was implemented a few years ago. He said some of the guides even like it because they can catch a quick limit of trout and then go after reds or snook, giving their clients more variety and still end up with a nice bag of fillets.
> 
> With the increase in fishing pressure all along the coast, maybe we should think about implementing the 5 fish limit coastwide.
> This just my opinion.


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## LPKENNER (Apr 26, 2006)

my guess is that probably only about 5% or so of the peope fishing everyday catch their limits (guide or no guide). There are always a lot more people not catching fish than catching limits. Lets say that they cancel out me and my fish killin techniques. 

SAVE A TROUT, KILLA DOLPHIN!!!:an5:


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## cfred (Jun 13, 2004)

LPKENNER said:


> SAVE A TROUT, KILLA DOLPHIN!!!:an5:


I thought the same thing when I saw the Pod of Dophins comment! Forget guides, croakers, etc. We need a good ole' fashioned Dolphin Hunt......... :biggrin:


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## deke (Oct 5, 2004)

cfred said:


> . We need a good ole' fashioned Dolphin Hunt......... :biggrin:


Heard they taste like chicken, I'm in. Here flipper, flipper


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## juanpescado (Dec 22, 2006)

5 trout a day would not hurt anyone for a couple years...


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## o.b. (Jan 11, 2009)

The bottom line is that TPWD perform studies on fish populations. If the fish are depleting then they will step up and reduce the limit. If they haven't done so already then the population must be doing good. Just like in LLM, they forecasted a problem and lowered the limit.


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## hammerdown (Jan 10, 2009)

Taught you everything you know. Call me Daddy! ******


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## gus110 (May 14, 2008)

o.b. said:


> The bottom line is that TPWD perform studies on fish populations. If the fish are depleting then they will step up and reduce the limit. If they haven't done so already then the population must be doing good. Just like in LLM, they forecasted a problem and lowered the limit.


Your'e right the government is our friend and can ALWAYS be trusted.


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## capt mullet (Nov 15, 2008)

Here in Galveston Bay our trout pouplation is very very healthy. The reason there are guides out there catching a lot of trout is because there are a lot of trout out there. Read the fishing report sections and you will see more than guides that are meat hawgs. I just read a report of a guy catching and keeping his 2 day limits because he fished past midnight the other night. In my opinion that is keeping way more trout than you actually need. i am definitely for the reduction of limits to 5 or 7 just because it may help make fishing better. Fishing is great in Galveston Bay and for it to get better would be awesome. More people are fishing now than ever before and a lot of the recreational anglers are "meat hawgs" so I really dont think guides are contributing to or hurting the population here in the Galveston Bay system. There are a lot more recrationla anglers than guides so to think that guides are hurting the population is just dead wrong.


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## netboy (Dec 12, 2006)

I agree with you Capt Mullet, but think about this...
How many "recreational" anglers are you guides teaching to load their boxes with trout and then they become "meat haulers". 
I've seen it happen many times here in the ULM.

Wouldn't all this be manageable with a 5 trout limit?

Again, just my opinion.


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## jd99problems (Sep 20, 2009)

how many full time guides are there between port mansfield and galveston?....more than 300? 400?

how many trips do these full time guides make a year? 150-200 or more in some cases?

how many customers per trip? 3-4 maybe more in some cases?

how many fish per customer per trip? 1/2 limit to limit?

and how many fish are put back to replace the fish caught by guide services?

you can't tell me that doesn't hurt the population....how long ago was a limit placed on trout and reds and how often have the limits been changed to lower numbers and longer lengths.....i can't remember the limits ever going up...only down....i can understand guides defending themselves, but to say that guide fishing businesse don't have and effect on the population is ignorant i think........and the following question is a serious one, because i have heard a few answers....why did the limit in port mansfield go down to 5 afterall?


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## Capt. Hollis Forrester (Jun 17, 2006)

jd99problems said:


> how many full time guides are there between port mansfield and galveston?....more than 300? 400?
> 
> how many trips do these full time guides make a year? 150-200 or more in some cases?
> 
> ...


If you think all 400 guides run 200 + trips per year, and every trip they run, all there clients come back to the dock with 1/2 to full limits every trip your way over on your estimation. In the perfect world you'd be right, but it's not that easy. I will agree with you that this does happen during certain times of the year "croaker season", but it aint just the guides. To each is own I guess, but that ain't my game and many other guides along the Texas coast. I have nothing against it, like I said "to each is own". There is alot of money that comes from fishing licences to Texas. Many of these licenses are bought from people who use it 1 time a year for use with a guided trip. This money is going back to conservation, law-enforcement etc, etc... I'm not bashing you by any means, and can understand your thoughts, and maybe you'll understand mine. Were all entitled to our own opinion.


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## Longhorn (Jun 22, 2006)

Limit should be 5 across the state. Very few people need 10 trout. Growing up fishing East Bay there used to be more fish in my opinion. Maybe there were just fewer boats. More people fishing definitely is harder on the resource. I wish TXP&W would lower the limit.


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## jd99problems (Sep 20, 2009)

Capt. Hollis Forrester said:


> If you think all 400 guides run 200 + trips per year, and every trip they run, all there clients come back to the dock with 1/2 to full limits every trip your way over on your estimation. In the perfect world you'd be right, but it's not that easy. I will agree with you that this does happen during certain times of the year "croaker season", but it aint just the guides. To each is own I guess, but that ain't my game and many other guides along the Texas coast. I have nothing against it, like I said "to each is own". There is alot of money that comes from fishing licences to Texas. Many of these licenses are bought from people who use it 1 time a year for use with a guided trip. This money is going back to conservation, law-enforcement etc, etc... I'm not bashing you by any means, and can understand your thoughts, and maybe you'll understand mine. Were all entitled to our own opinion.


well put capt.....i love a good discussion....you are absolutely right "We are all entitled to our own opinion"....and i wouldn't dare bash anyone, especially guides...truth is that i love being on the water and wouldn't mind making my living out there....tight lines...


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## catchysumfishy (Jul 19, 2008)

Longhorn said:


> Limit should be 5 across the state. Very few people need 10 trout. Growing up fishing East Bay there used to be more fish in my opinion. Maybe there were just fewer boats. More people fishing definitely is harder on the resource. I wish TXP&W would lower the limit.


Ok , here is my thoughts on Your statement: Before i moved to the hill country from the coast i very rarely kept any Trout or Red's -only what me and my wife would eat that evening Fresh. Now that i moved to the hill country i very rarely get to fish other than Fresh water and those fish taste terrible so they go back in the water. So here is my point along with ton's of other people: I may use a guide once or twice a year and now that i don't have everyday access to Trout anymore i yearn them so i'll take my 10 trout per day and enjoy everyone of them along with my limit of red's too-keep your 5/day limit-if you want it then you go by it -or do as i did for 10 years or more-Release every one you catch other than what you can eat fresh! Figure how many people who love to Catch and Release then add that to your equation! :cheers:


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## LPKENNER (Apr 26, 2006)

:an6::work:


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## capt mullet (Nov 15, 2008)

jd99problems said:


> how many full time guides are there between port mansfield and galveston?....more than 300? 400?
> 
> how many trips do these full time guides make a year? 150-200 or more in some cases?
> 
> ...


How many recreational anglers are out there?? thousands? or more how many can catch a limit? a lot more than just 10% that is for sure. Most of my clients fish with me 3 to 4 times a year so they keep their fish. So Joe blow customer fishes 3 to 4 times a year and keeps 20 -40 trout per year. Do you keep more fish than that per year??? How many fish does the recreational angler that goes every weekend keep. How many croaker soakers catch limits or near limits every weekend all summer. guides dont catch near as many as the recreational angler because there are thousand s and probably tens of thousands of rc anglers. Do the math. I am defending this because I am a guide I am defending this because I have an insight that you do not have.

I am strictly speaking about the galveston bay system since this is my area and I know a lot of guides and have an idea of how many guides are out there everyday. The trout population is bad in port mansfield I have heard but is this from natural consequences or man-made. there are far more anglers in this system than anywhere on the texas coast because of our population here and our fishery is excellent.


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## deke (Oct 5, 2004)

Capt., IMO the fish problem in Mansfield is man made. Mansfield is different than Galveston in that the depth and sheer size is greater. This gives the fish a lot more choices of places to be. The LLM is a couple feet deep except for the intercoastal. So in the cold and the heat they congrgate in and around the ICW , making them easy prey for anglers. Especially those using croaker.


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## geezuphosdn (Jun 5, 2006)

At the risk of getting bashed for my different OPINION....I think Guides should have to practice catch and release, for 2 reasons:

1. I'm not 100% convinced that your clients are paying $300+ for 1/2 day to have the opportunity to munch on a few delicious fillets. Let's be honest, HEB is way cheaper. The clients are looking for the experience and knowledge gained.

2. Less fish being killed means more fish in the future for the guides to earn there living.

Again, this is just my OPINION.


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## corykj (Oct 30, 2008)

deke said:


> Capt., IMO the fish problem in Mansfield is man made. Mansfield is different than Galveston in that the depth and sheer size is greater. This gives the fish a lot more choices of places to be. The LLM is a couple feet deep except for the intercoastal. So in the cold and the heat they congrgate in and around the ICW , making them easy prey for anglers. Especially those using croaker.


i agree... this is mostly true for the upper laguna as well. average depth is around four feet, except for the ICW and the crash channels and a few holes. there are too many factors to name that would push into deeper water and off the flats, so where do they go? the ICW, the crash channels, emmords hole, etc.

i know that there are alot of guides up in the galveston complex, but i'd be willing to bet that there are as many, if not more down here in the ulm/baffin/llm areas, and the same as far as anglers. everyone and their mother has at least one rod and reel and they use them, it's to be expected because they know the quality of fish that come from these waters.

we keep fish from time to time, but mostly release because we are aware of the bad shape our great fisheries are in.

there are plenty of guides out there that promote catch and release, maybe keep a few for dinner or 'the one' for the wall and i say kudos to them, yall are doing a great job and keep it up... but i know for a fact that there are plenty of guides down here that go out and are back on dry land by 10:00 in the morning with three or four limits of fish at least two or three times a week. compare that vs. people like myself and others i fish with and tell me that there isn't a problem...


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## Spinozopterus (Nov 17, 2009)

Lower the limits. There is no reason why people need to keep the largest number of fish that they can. Its as though people think its going to be their last chance ever to catch a fish. Sure, some people that live elsewhere want to stock their freezer after a trip to the bay. But most anglers live in the area and will probably fish again.

Also... does anyone care about the fact that it isnt safe to eat more than 8oz of trout a month??? We've all seen the threads/reports on safety of trout taken from the bay. They have carcinogens in their flesh. Even if you could keep a limit of 10, why would you want to eat that much?


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## let's go (Nov 14, 2005)

Personally, I love the trips where the customer tells me they want to learn something and could care less about a cooler full of fish. Some want to learn some new areas to fish and others just want to learn what it is I'm looking for to find fish. Some just want to get out and go sight-fishing because they've never been able to put the pieces together to be successful at it. 

I encourage CPR, but I'm not a hard-arse about it. If they want to take home a few fish for dinner that's cool. And I can honestly say that even though there have been many full limit catches on my boat over the years, there has never been a full limit brought to the docks. 

I guess that's the bonus for concentrating on sight-casting with light tackle and fly fishermen. It seems that the folks interested in this type of trip are more into the game than the sack of fillets in the freezer.

To me, being a guide is more about teaching and showing people a good time than it is about being the grocery clerk.


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## Tommy2268 (May 15, 2010)

The weekend warriors are going to have a bigger impact, IMO.


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## pelochas (Jun 15, 2005)

Longhorn said:


> Limit should be 5 across the state. Very few people need 10 trout. Growing up fishing East Bay there used to be more fish in my opinion. Maybe there were just fewer boats. More people fishing definitely is harder on the resource. I wish TXP&W would lower the limit.


five fish fish limit for me isnt enough for a fish fry we had yesterday. ten fish was just right, everyone had enough, all 10 of us. plus i catch them and usually fry them up that day. i hate freezing them just to go fishing the next day or weekend and bring more fish.....*** and why? there fish in the freezer!

i only keep five when its just me, wife and kids but sundays, family is about 10 or more.

i kinda agree guides should not keep their catch but ask the customer if they having a fish fry or something where they need all those fish. it becomes a "none of your business" question so if i were a guide, i rather not ask and not even keep my limit

i look at it this way. one guide and one paying customer limit out = 20 fish, that a fish fry for 20 plus people
one guide and two paying customers 30 fish, bigger fish fry
one guide and four paying customers 50 fish, thats a fish fry for about 100....
ok so about how many have a fish fry for 40 to 100 every weekend...everyday? the majority is freezer stored and i bet the customer probably be fishing again soon. so less is better for the customer unless he has 100 to feed.


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## let's go (Nov 14, 2005)

Pelochas, guides can't keep their limit on a paying trip.


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## Lagunabob (May 19, 2005)

The single guides don't do much damge, if any. Its more the lodge that runs 10-30 anglers a day and thinks donating $500 a year to TPWD is going to make up for the day in and day out raping of the resource.


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## Bigwater (May 21, 2004)

Matagorda is nothing like it was 20 years ago. It never will be the same. There are many guides posting on this thread that could take a lesson from some of the upper echelon guides like David Rowsey, Kevin Cochran, Arsola , etc. about Catch and release. We've all seen the pics from Matagorda harbor with 20 30 Trout laid out and a few over 25's in the mix. Boy's you put your clients on fish they need to leave the big ones there. 
There are several ways to run a guide service. I can understand a young guide getting started and allowing clients to keep fish. But after that wheel gets to turning there are folk here like Hollister that needs to practice a more conservative approach. He does not do that he continues to pile them up. Just go read Rowsy's internet site and let it sink in. Once your good your good and before your good you've got something to prove and that s why we see all the table pics and the non shelonte spamming of the fishing reports board.
You speak of lodges. Chris Martin's lodge is one of the most detrimental fishing guide lodges to Trout along the Texas coast. You see you can throw your dead fish pics down for just so long until some of us more conservative types lable you as a meat hawg. Even though all along you thought you were gaining clientel from all the super catches, you were actually losing customers from the other arena. 
Like I said there are all kinds of ways to run a guide service some are just a little more demanding and challenging than others. The meat haul, cheap trip boys are taking the easy way out on our dime.

Biggie


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## MIKE S. (Apr 8, 2007)

pelochas said:


> five fish fish limit for me isnt enough for a fish fry we had yesterday. ten fish was just right, everyone had enough, all 10 of us. plus i catch them and usually fry them up that day. i hate freezing them just to go fishing the next day or weekend and bring more fish.....*** and why? there fish in the freezer!
> 
> i only keep five when its just me, wife and kids but sundays, family is about 10 or more.
> 
> ...


How many people have a fish fry and only cook what they caught that day? I would say that the majority thaw fish out that have been in the freezer from previous trips. I doubt that theres many fisherman that wont go out fishing just because they already have fish in the freezer...


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## jdusek (Apr 7, 2006)

Hey why don't we hire Steven Seagal to take care of the dolphine issue. He took care of seals in Alaska 
Watch below

http://www.genspot.com/video-12463/steven-segal-in-family-guy.aspx


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## aggiemulletboy (May 31, 2006)

juanpescado said:


> 5 trout a day would not hurt anyone for a couple years...


If you think it would just be for a couple of years, you are kidding yourself. How often have the regulations become more strict and then bumped back? Even redfish which are doing great and could probably be harvested a bit more than they are have had higher limit proposals turned down. Don't get me wrong. I wouldn't mind a 5 fish limit. Just saying that if the limit drops, you aren't going to see it going back 10.


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## BATWING (May 9, 2008)

For every so called meat haul guided trip there are 10 of us weekend warriors getting skunked. Heck I have fished close to every weekend for the past 6 months and have not caught a trout yet.

I know.. Very sad.. Maybe I need to get a guide.


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## Levelwind (Apr 15, 2005)

We're living on a surplus of trout and reds and flounder in the bays due to the lack of a bad killer freeze. Yes I'm aware of the freeze we had early this year but it didn't last long and probably didn't kill a lot of fish. We'll get one one of these years and the inshore gamefish populations will be whacked severely. 

Get'em while you can.


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## gater (May 25, 2004)

*LLM Trout*



jd99problems said:


> how many full time guides are there between port mansfield and galveston?....more than 300? 400?
> 
> how many trips do these full time guides make a year? 150-200 or more in some cases?
> 
> ...


It was not because a lack of fish, numbers were right in line with the rest of the coast. It was due to a decline in a certain size range, not the overall numbers in the fishery


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## gater (May 25, 2004)

*Limits*



aggiemulletboy said:


> If you think it would just be for a couple of years, you are kidding yourself. How often have the regulations become more strict and then bumped back? *Even redfish which are doing great and could probably be harvested a bit more than they are have had higher limit proposals turned down.* Don't get me wrong. I wouldn't mind a 5 fish limit. Just saying that if the limit drops, you aren't going to see it going back 10.


These higher limits were not turned down because of the TP&WD so yes it is very possible the numbers would be raised back up in the future. Gater


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## aggiemulletboy (May 31, 2006)

gater said:


> These higher limits were not turned down because of the TP&WD so yes it is very possible the numbers would be raised back up in the future. Gater


I still don't see it happening, just like I doubt flounder will ever be 10 again even if the stock indicates it could handle it. Oh well. Guess we will see.


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## flatwound (Mar 30, 2010)

I don't think any sportfisherman hurts the resource.


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## jd99problems (Sep 20, 2009)

i don't keep a hundred trout a year, i've only made one trip this year and caught my 10, that was 2 weeks ago.....how many trips does it take for a full time guide to rack up 100 trout?...seriously, someone please throw some figures out there...a capt just posted on the fishing reports forum 3 boat limits of trout the other day freelining croaker...how many customers on each boat..let's say minimum of 2 and more than likely more....that's 60 trout minimum in one day by one outfitter.....no bashing, just saying....i may fish 10-15 times a year, but a full time guide takes customers 150-200 times a year and more in some cases.....


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## Bonito (Nov 17, 2008)

Here comes that thread again !!!


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## Capt. Kris Kelley (Jun 2, 2004)

Levelwind said:


> We're living on a surplus of trout and reds and flounder in the bays due to the lack of a bad killer freeze. Yes I'm aware of the freeze we had early this year but it didn't last long and probably didn't kill a lot of fish. We'll get one one of these years and the inshore gamefish populations will be whacked severely.
> 
> Get'em while you can.


"Old School" wisdom that's been proven right time and again. While you're at it, lets get the size limit reduced to 14" so we can get farther into the untouched male Trout biomass and stop killing fish to catch keepers while sticking a knife in a majority of females.


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## netboy (Dec 12, 2006)

Here are just a few "fishing" reports directly from the Bluff Landing marina website. Sounds like these guides measure their success in pounds and ounces.

Guide Bill Sheka had a little better luck. His boat brought in 25 Trout, 9 Redfish, and one Black Drum. One Red fish was 36'' 20 pounds! They brought in a total of 110 pounds. Bait used: Shrimp and Mullet

Guide John Mendleski's crew brought in a lot of solid Trout, 60 pounds 18 total fish. Bait used: Shrimp Mullet. 

Guide Bill Sheka's crew brought in 15 Trout and 7 Black Drum for a total of 60 pounds. Bait used: Shrimp 

Guide Joe Miles crew brought in 14 Trout and 4 Black Drum for a total of 40 pounds. Bait used Shrimp 

Guide Mike Walston's crew brought in a good box of fish with 15 Trout, 7 Redfish, and 4 Black Drum for a total of 60 pounds. Bait used: Shrimp

John Mendeleski


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## Gorda Fisher (Aug 19, 2005)

*Ding ding ding...we have a winner!*



Bigwater said:


> Matagorda is nothing like it was 20 years ago. It never will be the same. There are many guides posting on this thread that could take a lesson from some of the upper echelon guides like David Rowsey, Kevin Cochran, Arsola , etc. about Catch and release. We've all seen the pics from Matagorda harbor with 20 30 Trout laid out and a few over 25's in the mix. Boy's you put your clients on fish they need to leave the big ones there.
> There are several ways to run a guide service. I can understand a young guide getting started and allowing clients to keep fish. But after that wheel gets to turning there are folk here like Hollister that needs to practice a more conservative approach. He does not do that he continues to pile them up. Just go read Rowsy's internet site and let it sink in. Once your good your good and before your good you've got something to prove and that s why we see all the table pics and the non shelonte spamming of the fishing reports board.
> You speak of lodges. Chris Martin's lodge is one of the most detrimental fishing guide lodges to Trout along the Texas coast. You see you can throw your dead fish pics down for just so long until some of us more conservative types lable you as a meat hawg. Even though all along you thought you were gaining clientel from all the super catches, you were actually losing customers from the other arena.
> Like I said there are all kinds of ways to run a guide service some are just a little more demanding and challenging than others. The meat haul, cheap trip boys are taking the easy way out on our dime.
> ...


We've got no shortage of meathaulin guides here. I know there tryin to make a name for themselves, but they do it all wrong in my opinion. Dont get me wrong there not all like this and some are great guys as well as true "sportsman" i guess would be the word. Arsola would be one of the few in this category. Your right, they should learn from the upper echelon guys (i'll add watkins to that) on how to guide. The BEST ones really understand and have a passion for their profession. Also, many could use some manners on the water. And some could just learn how to catch fish altogether :rotfl:


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## Clint Sholmire (Nov 9, 2005)

*guide trips*

I got it, Lets start a lottery and everyone put their name in a hat and draw to see who gets to fish each weekend to relieve the pressure of all us guides killing ALL the fish that belong to everyone but the people that pay more money than everyone else to catch 10 stinking trout!!!!!!!! You people just don't get it, some of thease people have to go get fishing lic. just to go fishing on one guided trip a year not to return for another year. If you want to look at it this way that is money that would have never been paid to the state unless those people went on a guide trip. Everyone in the state of Texas is allowed 10 trout per day it does not matter who's boat they are on ! Get over yourselves, the fish do not belong to you , they belong to the state. Let the state decide what they want to give!


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## jd99problems (Sep 20, 2009)

Capt Kelley had a good day...i count 75 fish in that one picture...nice haul...tight lines...:an5:


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## goosekillr (Jul 11, 2007)

What keeps repeating itself is that the guides are taking to many fish. Guides are not allowed to keep fish. They are just taking regular anglers fishing and if they choose they can keep 10 fish. There are a lot of people out there that have done the math and decided it is not worth owning a $40,000 boat, buying insurance, bait, gas, and ice to only fish a few times a year. So they hire a guide and believe it or not they want to catch fish just like you do. If the guides are having no problem catching all of these fish maybe you should hire one and quit whinning about not catching anything. If and when the time comes to lower the limit to 5 I'm all for it, and I've heard it through the grapevine it may come up for public comment during the next year.


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## Privateer (Nov 28, 2009)

To the OP, you live in Ill. What difference does it make to you?


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## let's go (Nov 14, 2005)

I'm an old enough fart to recall when we had no limits. Then came a 20 trout limit and the end of legal gill-netting. The netters screamed that they were providing fish for people to eat and said that they had a right to make a living even if it was off of the public's fish. Guides complained that people wouldn't pay them to "only" keep 20 trout. Some guides moved over to Trinity Bay where the county commissioners set a limit of 50 trout if I recall correctly. Yes, back in the day the counties had some pull on game laws. 

Near as I could tell folks were still buying and eating fish just fine and I don't recall any guides going out of business over it.

Heard the same cries when the limit went down to 10. Who the hell was going to pay to only take home 10 trout. There are more guides now than there were back then so I guess that too was unfounded.

When the LLM limits were lowered to 5 it seemed like there was a pretty clear division of opinions by the guides down there. For the most part the lure chunkers seemed to be for it and the croaker guides said folks wouldn't pay them for only 5 fish. The same whining went on when guides were no longer allowed to keep their limit for their customers to take home. Apparently none of this has slowed business down too much because I still see plenty of croaker soaking going on.

What this little history lesson should teach us is that people just want to go fishing. If they get to keep 5, 10, 20 or even 50 trout it really doesn't seem to effect their desire to get out on the water. A guided trip should be measured in the amount of fun you had and whether or not you learned something that to make you a better angler, not in the weight of the fillets bagged for the freezer. If you look around at most of the longtime popular guides who are highly thought of among the angling community I think you'll often find that they are the ones who realize this.


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## deke (Oct 5, 2004)

Bigwater said:


> Matagorda is nothing like it was 20 years ago. It never will be the same. There are many guides posting on this thread that could take a lesson from some of the upper echelon guides like David Rowsey, Kevin Cochran, Arsola , etc. about Catch and release. We've all seen the pics from Matagorda harbor with 20 30 Trout laid out and a few over 25's in the mix. Boy's you put your clients on fish they need to leave the big ones there.
> There are several ways to run a guide service. I can understand a young guide getting started and allowing clients to keep fish. But after that wheel gets to turning there are folk here like Hollister that needs to practice a more conservative approach. He does not do that he continues to pile them up. Just go read Rowsy's internet site and let it sink in. Once your good your good and before your good you've got something to prove and that s why we see all the table pics and the non shelonte spamming of the fishing reports board.
> You speak of lodges. Chris Martin's lodge is one of the most detrimental fishing guide lodges to Trout along the Texas coast. You see you can throw your dead fish pics down for just so long until some of us more conservative types lable you as a meat hawg. Even though all along you thought you were gaining clientel from all the super catches, you were actually losing customers from the other arena.
> Like I said there are all kinds of ways to run a guide service some are just a little more demanding and challenging than others. The meat haul, cheap trip boys are taking the easy way out on our dime.
> ...


Great post. What gets me are the certain guide services/lodges that always report that the fish were caught on this lure or that lure. When in reality the majority of the fish came on croaker, or shrimp if it is out of season. I guess they think that they can post up lies and the people that fished with them won't say anything?


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## let's go (Nov 14, 2005)

Shrimp and croaker don't sponsor anybody.:wink:


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## km2006dmax (Nov 21, 2009)

Whats the big deal? Last time I checked its not against the law to keep 10 trout whether your with a guide or fishing with your buds. A lot of my friends have moved to just fishing with guides. They work to dam much, so they can only fish a few times a year. When they get a chance to fish they'd like to catch a few fish. So that's maybe 20-30 trout a year IF they happen to get their limits.

On the other end you have someone that is retired and can fish as many days as he wants to whether its 2 days a week or 7. You do the math who's going to catch more fish in a year? 

In the end it doesn't matter who's catching the fish or who their catching them with. :cheers:


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## Capt. Hollis Forrester (Jun 17, 2006)

Bigwater said:


> Matagorda is nothing like it was 20 years ago. It never will be the same. There are many guides posting on this thread that could take a lesson from some of the upper echelon guides like David Rowsey, Kevin Cochran, Arsola , etc. about Catch and release. We've all seen the pics from Matagorda harbor with 20 30 Trout laid out and a few over 25's in the mix. Boy's you put your clients on fish they need to leave the big ones there.
> There are several ways to run a guide service. I can understand a young guide getting started and allowing clients to keep fish. But after that wheel gets to turning there are folk here like Hollister that needs to practice a more conservative approach. He does not do that he continues to pile them up. Just go read Rowsy's internet site and let it sink in. Once your good your good and before your good you've got something to prove and that s why we see all the table pics and the non shelonte spamming of the fishing reports board.
> You speak of lodges. Chris Martin's lodge is one of the most detrimental fishing guide lodges to Trout along the Texas coast. You see you can throw your dead fish pics down for just so long until some of us more conservative types lable you as a meat hawg. Even though all along you thought you were gaining clientel from all the super catches, you were actually losing customers from the other arena.
> Like I said there are all kinds of ways to run a guide service some are just a little more demanding and challenging than others. The meat haul, cheap trip boys are taking the easy way out on our dime.
> ...


I see you continue speaking out of your as#, and definately know nothing of my guide service. Any whom have fished with me know that I totally encourage catch and release of big trout, and have seen me do many,many times,,, you apparently only speculate!...... I'd bet there are some ghost behind your post!


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## Gorda Fisher (Aug 19, 2005)

*Let me clarify...*

im not against guides, heck ive thought about doing it myself and of course their not the whole problem either. I just find it funny how alot of em operate. For instance one small one raises he** about people catching fish and keeping tons of 20"+ fish when he himself (#1 killer of fish from EMB anyways) does the same thing just not on croaker. Now I don't like croaker fishin either and im all for conservation too but you gotta do the talk & the walk as well. You look at some of those big name guys & most have things like boat bag & size limits, discounts, etc and you wont find them posting meat reports on the net, if on the net at all. Look at the pic's on their websites also. No doubt its not only the guides. No doubt that a majority are not helping the cause as well, to answer your question.


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## capt mullet (Nov 15, 2008)

Bigwater said:


> . There are many guides posting on this thread that could take a lesson from some of the upper echelon guides like David Rowsey, Kevin Cochran, Arsola , etc. about Catch and release.
> Biggie


 These guys target trophy trout while wade fishing most of the year. Not every guide does that. These guys may only get 3 or 4 fish landed in a day sometimes. You have a good point but it doesnt apply very well to the guide you are referring to or any of the guides here in galveston Bay. Why should I tell my customers to catch and release. If they want to eat some trout then let them. I ask everyone of my clients if they are keeping fish. If they say yes they go in teh box if they say no then great I dont have to fillet them up. But very few say NO. I think I am the only person on 2cool who hates eating fish. So all of teh hypocrites on here need to quit griping and be like me. DOnt eat fish and never keep them. I have been a catch and release fishermen my whole life because fish is nasty!!!


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## capt mullet (Nov 15, 2008)

jd99problems said:


> i don't keep a hundred trout a year, i've only made one trip this year and caught my 10, that was 2 weeks ago.....how many trips does it take for a full time guide to rack up 100 trout?...seriously, someone please throw some figures out there...a capt just posted on the fishing reports forum 3 boat limits of trout the other day freelining croaker...how many customers on each boat..let's say minimum of 2 and more than likely more....that's 60 trout minimum in one day by one outfitter.....no bashing, just saying....i may fish 10-15 times a year, but a full time guide takes customers 150-200 times a year and more in some cases.....


You are so dead wrong. The guide didnt keep any fish. The clients who paid for their fishing license did. That is like someone saying that you own a boat and fish all of the time and you shouldnt keep your limit. Every person who buys a fishing license is allowed to keep 10 per day. So why is that wrong when they go with a guide and catch their 10. I just dont undrstand what is the problem. I do appreciate the fact that you are not guide bashing but why is it the guides fault for putting you on fish you are legally allowed to harvest.


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## capt mullet (Nov 15, 2008)

deke said:


> Great post. What gets me are the certain guide services/lodges that always report that the fish were caught on this lure or that lure. When in reality the majority of the fish came on croaker, or shrimp if it is out of season. I guess they think that they can post up lies and the people that fished with them won't say anything?


Yeah right!! Come on Deke you are smarter than that!!


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## deke (Oct 5, 2004)

capt mullet said:


> Yeah right!! Come on Deke you are smarter than that!!


In my younger days, 3-4 years ago,lol, I actually believed a certain operation was all about wading with tops and tailshwell:. I was really naive I guess, because I don't think they owned a lure,lol.(yes I am exaggerating, but y'all get my point).


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## TXDRAKE (Jun 24, 2004)

Clint Sholmire said:


> I got it, Lets start a lottery and everyone put their name in a hat and draw to see who gets to fish each weekend to relieve the pressure of all us guides killing ALL the fish that belong to everyone but the people that pay more money than everyone else to catch 10 stinking trout!!!!!!!! You people just don't get it, some of thease people have to go get fishing lic. just to go fishing on one guided trip a year not to return for another year. If you want to look at it this way that is money that would have never been paid to the state unless those people went on a guide trip. Everyone in the state of Texas is allowed 10 trout per day it does not matter who's boat they are on ! Get over yourselves, the fish do not belong to you , they belong to the state. Let the state decide what they want to give!


I have said the same thing about our deer and high fences!!! hwell:



let's go said:


> I'm an old enough fart to recall when we had no limits. Then came a 20 trout limit and the end of legal gill-netting. The netters screamed that they were providing fish for people to eat and said that they had a right to make a living even if it was off of the public's fish. Guides complained that people wouldn't pay them to "only" keep 20 trout. Some guides moved over to Trinity Bay where the county commissioners set a limit of 50 trout if I recall correctly. Yes, back in the day the counties had some pull on game laws.
> 
> Near as I could tell folks were still buying and eating fish just fine and I don't recall any guides going out of business over it.
> 
> ...


Great post!!! Enough said!!


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## Roby (Jul 12, 2005)

I fish a couple times a year with two of the top rated guides on the Texas Gulf coast. I go with them to stay on top of things. I have never kept a limit of fish with these guides. I catch more fish out of my own boat than I do with the guides. But I catch fish with the guides on days when my better judgement tells me to stay home. They can catch fish is the most unbelievable conditions.


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## jd99problems (Sep 20, 2009)

sorry capt mullet..i meant to ask how many trips does it take for a full tume guide's customers to rack up 100 trout?....i never meant to question a guide personally keeping her/his limit of fish.....


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## capt mullet (Nov 15, 2008)

jd99problems said:


> sorry capt mullet..i meant to ask how many trips does it take for a full tume guide's customers to rack up 100 trout?....i never meant to question a guide personally keeping her/his limit of fish.....


I know you werent bashing guides I just wanted to reiterate the point again about people are catchin their legal harvest and not guides. For a customer to keep 100 that would mean 10 trips a year and catching a limit every trip. I only have a few clients that go 10 times a year and we dont limit out every time. so it would take more than 10 trips for someone to catch 100. i would say that 70% of my clients only fish 2-6 times per year (with me or on their own). They take a guide because they dont own a boat or live up north. They are definitely not hurting the population as much as the guy who owns his own boat and fishes several times a month and keeps fish every time wether it be a limit or not.


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## saltaholic (Feb 19, 2005)

I knew that this topic would come up sooner or later especially with all the pics people are putting up on the fishing reports lately.....


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## surfspeck (Jun 7, 2006)

If you want to have a fish fry for a bunch of people, go buy some fish at the store.

:help:



pelochas said:


> five fish fish limit for me isnt enough for a fish fry we had yesterday. ten fish was just right, everyone had enough, all 10 of us. plus i catch them and usually fry them up that day. i hate freezing them just to go fishing the next day or weekend and bring more fish.....*** and why? there fish in the freezer!
> 
> i only keep five when its just me, wife and kids but sundays, family is about 10 or more.
> 
> ...


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## Capt. Dustin Lee (Jan 16, 2006)

Bigwater said:


> Matagorda is nothing like it was 20 years ago. It never will be the same. There are many guides posting on this thread that could take a lesson from some of the upper echelon guides like David Rowsey, Kevin Cochran, Arsola , etc. about Catch and release. We've all seen the pics from Matagorda harbor with 20 30 Trout laid out and a few over 25's in the mix. Boy's you put your clients on fish they need to leave the big ones there.
> There are several ways to run a guide service. I can understand a young guide getting started and allowing clients to keep fish. But after that wheel gets to turning there are folk here like Hollister that needs to practice a more conservative approach. He does not do that he continues to pile them up. Just go read Rowsy's internet site and let it sink in. Once your good your good and before your good you've got something to prove and that s why we see all the table pics and the non shelonte spamming of the fishing reports board.
> You speak of lodges. Chris Martin's lodge is one of the most detrimental fishing guide lodges to Trout along the Texas coast. You see you can throw your dead fish pics down for just so long until some of us more conservative types lable you as a meat hawg. Even though all along you thought you were gaining clientel from all the super catches, you were actually losing customers from the other arena.
> Like I said there are all kinds of ways to run a guide service some are just a little more demanding and challenging than others. The meat haul, cheap trip boys are taking the easy way out on our dime.
> ...


If you dont think I promote catching fish and releasing of the bigger trout or ones you are not going to eat, then you are wrong. I ask my clients to release all trout over 25 inches. If they want to keep them then that is their fish. I do educate them on why it is a good idea to release that fish and 98% of the time the fish is released. Why do you think these places that show lots of fish in their pics are busy? It's because folks book guides to catch fish, not sit there all day wishing they was catching something to take home and eat. If that's what people want then that's what they are going to do. I have changed my services from the going out and trying to fill the box to the max everyday to wading with lures trying to teach folks how to catch fish on something other than a live bait. Do I use live still? Yes but only a few rtrips a year because that is what some of my top customers want and have taken care of me for the last 10 years or longer. Does my boat catch limits day in and day out? NO. The pics you see of my clients with big catches are because that's what they wanted and most of them never get to go more than a few times a year. I have had tons of trips where most of the folks are looking for that 1 BIG TROPHY TROUT and if they catch a few under 25 inches then they may or may not keep them to take home to eat that is their choice.

Now my question is, if you was a person who loved to fish offshore and did not own a boat, would you still pay the money it takes to book one of these charters and could keep only 1 snapper if the Captain or boat owner said that HE thinks that is all the fish you need when you could catch your limit?:spineyes:

Capt. Dustin Lee


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## juanpescado (Dec 22, 2006)

Capt. Hollis Forrester said:


> I see you continue speaking out of your as#, and definately know nothing of my guide service. Any whom have fished with me know that I totally encourage catch and release of big trout, and have seen me do many,many times,,, you apparently only speculate!...... I'd bet there are some ghost behind your post!


Its obvious this person has never fished with you, i've fished with you several times and and have NEVER heard you want to keep fish, if someone pays a guide to catch and slam fish thats their dollar, MAYBE just MAYBE the guides aren't at fault for anything, MAYBE its the anglers that are the ones who want to slaughter fish and pack them up on the table.HAVE YOU EVER HEARD A GUIDE SAY "BOY I CANT WAIT TO CLEAN ALL THESE FISH AND BAG THEM"

If the trout limit was 5 fish per day would that stop whining---------doubt it....


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## flatwound (Mar 30, 2010)

I remember the" miles " of trot lines in the upper and lower Laguna Madre .baited with red plastic strips.MANY unattended with dead fish on them.
I remember very VERY low populations of red fish in the bays~all bays on the Texas coast,prior to success of ( G ) CCA.And the input and cooperation of Texas Sportsman.
Each opinion of all Sportfisherman is perhaps `our Most valuable asset.
Outlaw fisherman are just that~pigs ~the rest of us enjoy doing the right thing.


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## pelochas (Jun 15, 2005)

surfspeck said:


> If you want to have a fish fry for a bunch of people, go buy some fish at the store.
> 
> :help:


r u serious?


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## Jim Martin (Jun 3, 2009)

flatwound said:


> I remember the" miles " of trot lines in the upper and lower Laguna Madre .baited with red plastic strips.MANY unattended with dead fish on them.
> I remember very VERY low populations of red fish in the bays~all bays on the Texas coast,prior to success of ( G ) CCA.And the input and cooperation of Texas Sportsman.
> Each opinion of all Sportfisherman is perhaps `our Most valuable asset.
> Outlaw fisherman are just that~pigs ~the rest of us enjoy doing the right thing.


That was back in the 60's and early 70's when we used surveyors tape as plastic bait in the lines. We also used thinly sliced dow rod sections that would look like a crab when you put them on a hook and they spun in the tide movement. That was back when people brought wash tubs full of reds to the dock every sunday evening. I took part in that when I was young and I also agreed it was time to stop it when it became obvious that our behavior was doing harm to the eco system.


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## Privateer (Nov 28, 2009)

Jim Martin said:


> That was back in the 60's and early 70's when we used surveyors tape as plastic bait in the lines. We also used thinly sliced dow rod sections that would look like a crab when you put them on a hook and they spun in the tide movement. That was back when people brought wash tubs full of reds to the dock every sunday evening. I took part in that when I was young and I also agreed it was time to stop it when it became obvious that our behavior was doing harm to the eco system.


 not to mention that Mcdonalds straws were the best dam spanish and kingfish bait you could use before we learned about ribbonfish!


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## shallowgal (Jun 11, 2004)

Being a guide is just a profession that some people choose who have to ways and means to be successful at it. Just like an accountant, doctor, teacher, whatever. Catching fish is a guide's job. How would you like people criticizing your job and telling you to do things differently even though you aren't breaking any laws, and are working within your rights?

I think guide's help people learn to fish and introduce more people to the passtime we all obviously love. I've learned a lot from guides, a lot more than I would've learned on my own. 

And I completely agree that we should protect our resources so that future generations get to enjoy it like we do, but I also leave that up to the experts and scientist who study and research our bays and fish populations. When they said we had to limit our catch to 10 trout here in the LLM, I was fine with that. I really don't think it would be that big of a deal to implement that statewide either.


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## cruss (Aug 31, 2005)

*guides*

Lets have a buy back program for the guides license similar to the shrimpers and outlaw guides actually fishing when out on a client trip since they cannot keep their limit anyway.


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## JJGold1 (May 6, 2010)

cruss said:


> Lets have a buy back program for the guides license similar to the shrimpers and outlaw guides actually fishing when out on a client trip since they cannot keep their limit anyway.


You're quite a guide hater arn't you?

http://2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/showthread.php?t=261451

http://2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/showthread.php?p=2607396#post2607396

http://2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/showthread.php?p=2099605#post2099605

http://2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/showthread.php?p=2086229#post2086229

I could continue with the search.....But please leave your agenda at the door.


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## sasquatch (Jul 8, 2008)

*fish fry*

So......... You think instead of being able to go out and catch a mess of fresh fish for family and friends to enjoy at a fish fry. I should go out and buy some commercially netted fillets??? What other restrictions do you think we need, barbless hooks? And for the JK5 proponents where did you earn your B.S. in fisheries management?? And why 5? Why not 6 or 8 or 4? What is the significance of five. Just because they did it down south? Do you actaully think middle coast, upper coast and lower coast fisheries are the same. If you want to keep five, great go for it. But leave us guys who only get to go a few times a year alone so we can box our ten and enjoy a great meal of fresh fish with our family, which is (and I know this is against popular opinion)what its all about(for me anyway).


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## Mullet (May 21, 2004)

*2 cents*

I did not read all the posts so if I repeat anything who gives a rat.

Epi once told me something that I think is very true.

*5% of the fishermen catch 90% of the fish.*

There are more trout in galveston bay than I can remember.
Of course I moved here in 83.

Just keep practicing catch and release. 
The survival rate is over 90% according to research done by TPW.


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## Sea-Slug (May 28, 2004)

The majority of the guides are good folk and good fisherman. A good guide not only puts clients on fish but teaches his clients knowledge of the area, as in channels and holes and sandbars, and teaches his clients new tactics with different baits. He teaches his clients to be better boaters, fisherman, and sportsman. As more and more people learn more about being a good sportsman, it is a good thing for our fishery. Guides are a great thing for all of us in my opinion. And a kid fishing with a guide who catches alot of fish on a trip might just become addicted to fishing that day instead of addicted to drugs someday later. Our guides are great Ambassaders of our sport. Only good things come from sharing knowledge, that is why I like 2-cool so much also.


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## topwatrout (Aug 25, 2009)

I'm 16 and personally, I don't know what I would do without the occasional guided trip. This summer, I've already taken maybe 15 trips by myself...but today I was in mata fishing with a guide who answered EVERY FREAKIN LAST ONE of my questions with no hesitation and I learned prolly the equivalent of those 15 trips by myself. ALSO, we didn't come anywhere near our limits of trout... It's the clients decision to keep the fish, not the guides...


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## jdot7749 (Dec 1, 2008)

If it weren't for reading guide info a lot of people wouldn't even go fishing let alone catch any thing. At this point in time there are way more fish in the bays(at least Galveston and Sabine Lake than all the guides and your 
so called recreational fisherman can catch and keep anyway.


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## jdot7749 (Dec 1, 2008)

By the way, why was tis dumb cr52p started anyway? How long and how often can you beat a sick horse?


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## Crusty Hobie (Jan 28, 2009)

topwatrout said:


> I'm 16 and personally, I don't know what I would do without the occasional guided trip. This summer, I've already taken maybe 15 trips by myself...but today I was in mata fishing with a guide who answered EVERY FREAKIN LAST ONE of my questions with no hesitation and I learned prolly the equivalent of those 15 trips by myself. ALSO, we didn't come anywhere near our limits of trout... It's the clients decision to keep the fish, not the guides...


If you set you profile up to say you're 19 to impress the ladies than you're on the wrong site bud:work:


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## Sea-Slug (May 28, 2004)

Crusty Hobie said:


> If you set you profile up to say you're 19 to impress the ladies than you're on the wrong site bud:work:


 LMAO!


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## topwatrout (Aug 25, 2009)

that was really funny. but for one, who cares. it was a typo... i bet 9 out of 10 times I'll outfish you so you may wanna watch what you say to whom you're speakin...bud

I don't mean to sound mean but I hate when someone makes a joke or comment about that...it's happened quite alot


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## nhampton (Aug 8, 2007)

As I came off the water on Father's Day weekend I was approached to do a creel survey by a biologist for Parks and Wildlife. I gladly complied because as I supplied them with information on my catch he was willing to give me a summary of information he had collected through the day, what had been caught and the approximate location. This information was helpful, because, under that days conditions those locations were more or less productive than the ones I had tried. He also questioned me on county of residence and money spent etc.

My point is, if it is of importance whether guided or unguided trips are catching most of the fish, and particularly trout, why not make this part of the survey also. This would provide a definitive answer.

It is my gut instinct that the guided trips do harvest most of the fish, but as long as our resource is capable of renewing itself at current levels I don't know what the harm is. I use a guide for three reasons camaraderie during the trip, knowledge of where the fish were caught yesterday, how they were caught yesterday and not in expectation of boxing a limit of fish. It is as much a learning experience as a catching experience.

 
Most of the guides that have responded in this thread have indicated that they do not encourage clients to keep 10 trout, but if they wish to, they don't feel like they can prevent them from doing so. If this is true, would the guides object to the state imposing a 5 trout guided limit? If the clients then wanted to retain more fish, they could target alternative species and still have a lot of fish to take home. That would take the pressure off the guide to deliver a 10 fish limit and allow a client take enough home to enjoy a fish fry or two.


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## the wood man (Sep 14, 2006)

deke said:


> Great post. What gets me are the certain guide services/lodges that always report that the fish were caught on this lure or that lure. When in reality the majority of the fish came on croaker, or shrimp if it is out of season. I guess they think that they can post up lies and the people that fished with them won't say anything?


I agree great post. I like many of the guides and most are really good dudes,but where does it end? Chris Martin's lodge is always running 6-10 boats every day and does he want to expand to 20? Of course they will say well the economy,etc, wont allow it but it looks like a growth industry to me.I have thought that for a long time that there might need to be a limit put on how many guides can work a certain body of water.The precedent for that is limiting the number of shrimping licences. And if you dont think that guides are not directly responsible for a large disproportionat number of fish that are taken every day you are naive.I agree it is a slippery slope but everything has a limit.Again, nothing personal but that is just my thoughts on the subject.


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## Cody C (May 15, 2009)

Privateer said:


> not to mention that Mcdonalds straws were the best dam spanish and kingfish bait you could use before we learned about ribbonfish!


Man I still use straws! They are better than ribbon fish for some applications!

That's all I have to say about that (this whole thread!)


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

Yes, the guides are just taking licensed fishermen out, each of whom has a right to keep their 10 (or 5) trout: One thing that isn't mentioned, though, is where those fishermen would be without that guide: wadefishing Christmas bay? On TCD catching hardheads and black drum? If there's a negative impact, it's just from a glut of guides "enabling" a bunch of people that otherwise wouldn't be "affecting" that particular sector of the resource: just jacking up the pressure, and the more guides the worse the pressure.. Sooner or later that increase in pressure turns into fewer fish, be it from going in a cooler, dying from hook wounds, or just plain "migrating" to lower-pressure locales..


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## DMC (Apr 2, 2006)

The issue of resource depletion should not be addressed at the fishing level, but at the licensing level. If you aren't going to stand at the outlet where licenses are sold and complain about people paying their money to get a permission to fish, don't go to the lakes or bays and complain that they are actually using the license they bought. 

Ultimately, the more people who get into recreational fishing the better the resource will be. If only a few people did it, it would likely not rebound in the event of a virus or something along those lines. 

As far as guides go, it's like saying bus drivers cause congestion at the airports because all those people show up on buses. The guides are hired to take people out to fish. They are not out there handing limits of fish to clients.


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## DMC (Apr 2, 2006)

dwilliams35 said:


> Yes, the guides are just taking licensed fishermen out, each of whom has a right to keep their 10 (or 5) trout: One thing that isn't mentioned, though, is where those fishermen would be without that guide: wadefishing Christmas bay? On TCD catching hardheads and black drum? If there's a negative impact, it's just from a glut of guides "enabling" a bunch of people that otherwise wouldn't be "affecting" that particular sector of the resource: just jacking up the pressure, and the more guides the worse the pressure.. Sooner or later that increase in pressure turns into fewer fish, be it from going in a cooler, dying from hook wounds, or just plain "migrating" to lower-pressure locales..


So as long as people are not successful at fishing, the rest who are will be doing fine?

This sounds like one of those "us vs them" things. They are us. Some of us would rather pay a guide than pay 50K for a boat. I personally have never used a saltwater guide, but then I don't think I need to. If I was going out with people who don't fish that often, I would hire a guide because they have the experience to allow these people to enjoy fishing. It's not always about filling up a cooler, although we see plenty of pics of people who have.

What, are we going to turn into sub-PETA now?


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## DMC (Apr 2, 2006)

the wood man said:


> I agree great post. I like many of the guides and most are really good dudes,but where does it end? Chris Martin's lodge is always running 6-10 boats every day and does he want to expand to 20? Of course they will say well the economy,etc, wont allow it but it looks like a growth industry to me.I have thought that for a long time that there might need to be a limit put on how many guides can work a certain body of water.The precedent for that is limiting the number of shrimping licences. And if you dont think that guides are not directly responsible for a large disproportionat number of fish that are taken every day you are naive.I agree it is a slippery slope but everything has a limit.Again, nothing personal but that is just my thoughts on the subject.


I see where you are going with this, and I can agree to a point, however guides are just taking people fishing. Do you want to limit the number of people who are allowed to fish a certain area?

I don't get this whole thing actually. People buy a fishing license just like you and they have a right to fish just like you. Just because you don't think they deserve to be successful because they haven't logged the hours that perhaps you have doesn't mean a law should be passed to prevent these people from fishing waters that some here obviously think belongs to them.

Are people here not catching fish anymore, and if not, is it because the guides are out having their clients catch them all?

Should there be a limit on how many brother-in-laws a person can take fishing?

Slippery slope indeed. If the guides are that successful, there must be a lot of fish out there.

Honestly, I don't get why anyone would want a law to limit how many people can have guided trips in a certain area. That's all it boils down to isn't it? It's not just about the guides, but about the people who should be sitting on the boat ramp catching hard heads because they don't know how to find trout. Never mind that many who do know how to find trout were shown by guides or people who had the experience. So whether or not you paid for your lessons, you got them one way or the other. Why drop the gate now? It reminds me of the Titanic movie where a guy would step onto the life raft and turn and say "were full, no more" then one more would get on and turn and say "were full, no more". It's always ok to shut it off once they got theirs.

Sorry, don't mean to rant, but why fishermen want the government to create laws that restrict fishermen is beyond me.


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## DMC (Apr 2, 2006)

jd99problems said:


> i don't keep a hundred trout a year, i've only made one trip this year and caught my 10, that was 2 weeks ago.....how many trips does it take for a full time guide to rack up 100 trout?...seriously, someone please throw some figures out there...a capt just posted on the fishing reports forum 3 boat limits of trout the other day freelining croaker...how many customers on each boat..let's say minimum of 2 and more than likely more....that's 60 trout minimum in one day by one outfitter.....no bashing, just saying....i may fish 10-15 times a year, but a full time guide takes customers 150-200 times a year and more in some cases.....


The guide didn't rack up anything of the sort. The individuals who hold fishing licenses they paid for just like you did caught their limits.

Funny because you can go back 5 years and people caught their limits. I guess the resource isn't as depleted as you are making it out to be, since all these people are catching their limits. When the guides report that no one is catching limits, worry. Or maybe when there's a oil leak here and it kills everything anyhow.


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## DMC (Apr 2, 2006)

troutphishin said:


> The single guides don't do much damge, if any. Its more the lodge that runs 10-30 anglers a day and thinks donating $500 a year to TPWD is going to make up for the day in and day out raping of the resource.


Eh?

Lodge = many guides.

It's like saying its not the bees that are doing it, but the hive.

A lodge is made up of single guides. So the money is split differently and trips are booked differently. It's still a guide on a boat with fishermen. The only thing that makes them clients is that they pay. They have a legal right to fish that water with or without the guide. The guide just ferries them to and from there, and gives pointers.

It's not like the guides are bring people from another planet to deplete the resource. These people are you and me. They take a segment from the fishing population fishing because that segment bought a license and paid for the trip.

If one person has the right to fish those waters for those fish, all people have that right. Conservation isn't a "for me" thing. It's a "for us" thing.

It's a pet peeve for me when people seek exclusivity for a resource that belongs to everyone. The bow hunters want crossbows outlawed, the purist fly fishermen want everyone to use only barbless hooks and not keep anything, and the bass fishermen want ramps to only allow bass boats and that no one keeps a bass because one day they might need it for a paycheck.

It's getting ridiculous. How about you catch the fish you can and everyone else will do the same. No one is out raping a resource. People are fishing. It's not the same people every time even though it might be the same guide, and no one here has any exclusive rights to this resource.


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

DMC said:


> So as long as people are not successful at fishing, the rest who are will be doing fine?
> 
> This sounds like one of those "us vs them" things. They are us. Some of us would rather pay a guide than pay 50K for a boat. I personally have never used a saltwater guide, but then I don't think I need to. If I was going out with people who don't fish that often, I would hire a guide because they have the experience to allow these people to enjoy fishing. It's not always about filling up a cooler, although we see plenty of pics of people who have.
> 
> What, are we going to turn into sub-PETA now?


 Please.....

nobody, especially me, said that any given individual doesn't have the same right to those fish as anybody else: The issue I mentioned is quite simply that the current glut of guides has, good or bad, changed the profile of just what fish are getting pressured.. The OP asked what the impact was, that is the impact the way I see it: no class warfare, no "us vs. them", just an impact. If anything, guides are increasing the number of people with lines in the water, too: on every guided trip I went on, we had a full boatload or two of fishermen: the way the pricing structure of guides is, that's the smartest, most economical way to do it.. Out of, let's say eight fishermen on one "ticket", maybe one, maybe two would be on the water anyway: the rest would be mowing their yards, playing golf, at work, whatever: the nature of guided trips is going to motivate the "primary" client to round up each and every warm body he can that might be interested to cut his costs down. That's basically an "unnatural" influence on the fish as a result of guides..

Like I said, good or bad: one way or another, there IS an impact: my contention is that the #1 impact is the changed and increased pressure on the resource.


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## jd99problems (Sep 20, 2009)

Bottom line is that if there were no guides then there would be more fish....when guides say they catch their limits, it doesn't mean that there are plenty of fish..that is such an ignorant statment. I'm still waiting on someone to come forward with some info....educate the rest of us on how many fish get taken from the gulf for profit by guides....

How many guides on the gulf coast?
How many trips per year by these guides?
How many fish taken from the gulf resulting from these trips?

and most of all

How many fish did that full time guide, who makes 150-200 or more trips a year and gets paid to put people on fish, put back into the water?.......

Don't compare to buses and bees...that's stupid...but I would like a full time guide to just give some stats....i would be interested.......we all have our opinions and i'm not different...i believe that guides are a negative impact on the resource......


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## Cody C (May 15, 2009)

jd99problems said:


> Bottom line is that if there were no guides then there would be more fish....when guides say they catch their limits, it doesn't mean that there are plenty of fish..that is such an ignorant statment. I'm still waiting on someone to come forward with some info....educate the rest of us on how many fish get taken from the gulf for profit by guides....
> 
> How many guides on the gulf coast?
> How many trips per year by these guides?
> ...


I think that fishing should be banned. If NO ONE was fishing, there would be a whole lot of fish out there. If everyone in the Northern Hemisphere quit fishing, there would be fish all over the place for people to catch! Oh wait, there would be no fishing, so no one could enjoy the resource.

I agree guys, guides should be banned. Let's go ahead and fire a couple thousand fishermen that actually work for a living to provide for their families. Why should they be allowed to fish those waters anyways? Its not like they pay for their fishing license, boat payment, boat insurance, captain's license, guide license, etc...

While we are at it, we should outlaw boats from being on the water too! All those dang burn boats tearing up the sea grasses and hitting dolphins with their props.

Dang a drought last year followed by a freeze this winter has trout numbers down a little but chill, there are plenty to go around. You would think with this nice weather that some of ya'll would get out and go fish and calm the hell down!

Carry on :walkingsm


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## jd99problems (Sep 20, 2009)

I think that fishing should be banned. If NO ONE was fishing, there would be a whole lot of fish out there. If everyone in the Northern Hemisphere quit fishing, there would be fish all over the place for people to catch! Oh wait, there would be no fishing, so no one could enjoy the resource. 

I agree guys, guides should be banned. Let's go ahead and fire a couple thousand fishermen that actually work for a living to provide for their families. Why should they be allowed to fish those waters anyways? Its not like they pay for their fishing license, boat payment, boat insurance, captain's license, guide license, etc...

While we are at it, we should outlaw boats from being on the water too! All those dang burn boats tearing up the sea grasses and hitting dolphins with their props.

Dang a drought last year followed by a freeze this winter has trout numbers down a little but chill, there are plenty to go around. You would think with this nice weather that some of ya'll would get out and go fish and calm the hell down! 

Carry on :walkingsm

So what's your answer Cody?.....Are guides a positive or negative impact on the resource?........I believe you have an opinion.......one word answer please....positive or negative?


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## markbrumbaugh (Jul 13, 2010)

I've never met a guide who didn't care more about the resource than 99% of the fishing public. I once lost 1 1/2 hours of a 6 hour trip while we tried to resuscitate a 28 inch rainbow.

That said, I think it is the fishermen on a paid guided trip who feel they need to stock the freezer, when CR would be better. I certainly don't keep fish if the freezer still has a couple of meals in it....guided or not.

If we want to gripe, its the dang trot lines across beasley's reef that get me going. Right across a typical SW drift.


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## jboogerfinger (Jun 16, 2009)

The way I look at it is that tpwd takes all that into account when limits are set every year. I personally CPR for the most part now. If they cut limits like south Texas it would be fine with me. Nobody is really fishing just for food anyway. If so you be better off just going to a restaurant. Cheaper at least.


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## the wood man (Sep 14, 2006)

DMC said:


> I see where you are going with this, and I can agree to a point, however guides are just taking people fishing. Do you want to limit the number of people who are allowed to fish a certain area?
> 
> I don't get this whole thing actually. People buy a fishing license just like you and they have a right to fish just like you. Just because you don't think they deserve to be successful because they haven't logged the hours that perhaps you have doesn't mean a law should be passed to prevent these people from fishing waters that some here obviously think belongs to them.
> 
> ...


Just got in tonight and enjoyed your post. good points. But with your Titanic analogy I think you made my point.One more aboard the lifeboat and they all might drown in the cold water. And the answer to your last sentence is very obvious. Without regulation it has been shown that greed and numbers will destroy the resource.The examples are very numerous.


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## bayou vista (Jun 28, 2008)

CPR what a joke! yea if you took care of the fish the right way. but we have all seen the dried out trout head bent back suspended by a BOGA grip for minutes on end while the guide fumbles for a camera,i have seen the studies if you remove a tired out old sow from the water more than 30 seconds she is dead before the end of the day! i am all for keeping your first 5 no matter what the size and thats your limit ,guided trip or not.


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## Cody C (May 15, 2009)

jd99problems said:


> I think that fishing should be banned. If NO ONE was fishing, there would be a whole lot of fish out there. If everyone in the Northern Hemisphere quit fishing, there would be fish all over the place for people to catch! Oh wait, there would be no fishing, so no one could enjoy the resource.
> 
> I agree guys, guides should be banned. Let's go ahead and fire a couple thousand fishermen that actually work for a living to provide for their families. Why should they be allowed to fish those waters anyways? Its not like they pay for their fishing license, boat payment, boat insurance, captain's license, guide license, etc...
> 
> ...


Positive overall impact. The more people that guides help involve in fishing, the more help the fish get. Even if someone goes on 1 guided trip a year, they still have to buy a license, pay for a hotel, provide money to the community with food, gas, supplies.

If you took away all the guided trips from Port Aransas, the town would dry up and be but a speck on the map. The beaches down here aren't the best. Fishing is why everyone comes down here and will continue too.

Rockport, Port O'Connor, Sargent, etc are all little fishing towns and would have the same effects if guides were not allowed.

Sure there are short term effects of guide pressure like last summer when nearly every guide from Port O'Connor to Corpus was croaker fishing in the ULM because of the drought, but the fish bounce right back and are going good again this summer.


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

Cody C said:


> Positive overall impact. The more people that guides help involve in fishing, the more help the fish get. Even if someone goes on 1 guided trip a year, they still have to buy a license, pay for a hotel, provide money to the community with food, gas, supplies.
> 
> If you took away all the guided trips from Port Aransas, the town would dry up and be but a speck on the map. The beaches down here aren't the best. Fishing is why everyone comes down here and will continue too.
> 
> ...


Okay, just to be a devil's advocate here, you started out with "the more people.........the more help the fish get." Then you proceeded into three short paragraphs about the economies of fishing towns being based on guides.., followed by one about guide pressure last summer having short term effects. I didn't see a thing in there about how the fish get helped... It takes a lot more than writing a check to a guide to "help" a fish: with the possible exception of TPWD efforts funded by licensure fees, (how many licenses are used only on that trip???), I don't see the guides' increased clientele helping anything but themselves to some fish, be it into the cooler, CPR, or CPRC (catch, photo, release a carcass for the crabs)


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## Back Bay boy (Apr 7, 2010)

Man we can sugar coat all of this but the fact is guides are out to catch there clients limits. They are out to make money. I respect that I am not a al gore fan I think we actually go overboard on this conservation stuff. They only thing I have against guides is that Sometimes they think becouse they have paying customers we should let them have the spots. I have encountered this in Nueces Bay. I had a driver here who says he was a comercial fisherman from Rockport. He told me they use to go out past the surf and troll out a mile of nets and rake in the fish. Also I see these comercial fisherman who set lines in Nueces and have seen there boats so full you cant even see the floor or deck of the boat with drum. Now who is takeing the fish the guides,The weekend warrior,or the comercial fisher who takes many many limits a day. And I dont keep fish. I hate to eat them and hate to clean them. If someone wants me to keep them I may But they clean and the come and get them from me. But rarely do I keep fish.


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## DMC (Apr 2, 2006)

dwilliams35 said:


> Please.....
> 
> nobody, especially me, said that any given individual doesn't have the same right to those fish as anybody else: The issue I mentioned is quite simply that the current glut of guides has, good or bad, changed the profile of just what fish are getting pressured.. The OP asked what the impact was, that is the impact the way I see it: no class warfare, no "us vs. them", just an impact. If anything, guides are increasing the number of people with lines in the water, too: on every guided trip I went on, we had a full boatload or two of fishermen: the way the pricing structure of guides is, that's the smartest, most economical way to do it.. Out of, let's say eight fishermen on one "ticket", maybe one, maybe two would be on the water anyway: the rest would be mowing their yards, playing golf, at work, whatever: the nature of guided trips is going to motivate the "primary" client to round up each and every warm body he can that might be interested to cut his costs down. That's basically an "unnatural" influence on the fish as a result of guides..
> 
> Like I said, good or bad: one way or another, there IS an impact: my contention is that the #1 impact is the changed and increased pressure on the resource.


Ad nauseum argument doesn't make it any more sound than it was the first time.

The means to fish isn't the catalyst for the depletion of a natural resource, and a guide is just a means to fish. It's like building a bridge to an otherwise isolated island and then blaming the bridge for the traffic on the island instead of blaming the people (who have a right to access the island, btw). We all have a right to fish if we paid our fees. Guides have a right to work if they paid their fees. Fishing is very popular, and there is indeed a finite amount of product to be had, however it's not the fault of the guide that people want to take a legal piece of the resource for personal use and the guides are not causing the resource to deplete. If it's depleting because of fishing pressure, it's the fishermen, all of us, even those of us who do not use guides, that are depleting it. Just because the guide is there when people catch the fish doesn't mean the guide is taking the fish. I keep seeing references to a guides haul, as if that guide took those fish.

Regardless who showed you where and how to fish, it's likely someone did, ergo someone was your guide, money or not. We all had guides of some sort, unless you happened upon it by happenstance and just figured it out on your own.

Even then the lure manufacturers have created a system where it's really easy to fool a fish. No one is hand carving their plugs from their own concepts (maybe a couple are). We all go buy lures and rods and reels and everything else that enables us to take more fish (release or not).

Then I guess the writers and legendary fishermen we all looked up to are to blame as well, because they inspired us to hunt these fish. They have depleted these resources by proxy. **** them.

In short, your argument is very much like the "guns kill people" argument. Guides don't take fish, people take fish. Guides just enable people to take fish. Guns enable people to kill other people, but guns do not kill other people, therefore guns are not the reason for homicides and guides are not the reason for resource depletion.

And I realize you are only giving your opinion in response to the OP, however it's an open thread and all responses are subject to scrutiny.


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## DMC (Apr 2, 2006)

the wood man said:


> Just got in tonight and enjoyed your post. good points. But with your Titanic analogy I think you made my point.One more aboard the lifeboat and they all might drown in the cold water. And the answer to your last sentence is very obvious. Without regulation it has been shown that greed and numbers will destroy the resource.The examples are very numerous.


One more aboard the lifeboat........ It's the "one more" that's the key. One more means "no one after me". It rarely means "I will not get on because that would be one too many". Problem is that none of us have the right to fish if all of us don't, especially in public waters.


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## DMC (Apr 2, 2006)

Back Bay boy said:


> Man we can sugar coat all of this but the fact is guides are out to catch there clients limits. They are out to make money. I respect that I am not a al gore fan I think we actually go overboard on this conservation stuff. They only thing I have against guides is that Sometimes they think becouse they have paying customers we should let them have the spots. I have encountered this in Nueces Bay. I had a driver here who says he was a comercial fisherman from Rockport. He told me they use to go out past the surf and troll out a mile of nets and rake in the fish. Also I see these comercial fisherman who set lines in Nueces and have seen there boats so full you cant even see the floor or deck of the boat with drum. Now who is takeing the fish the guides,The weekend warrior,or the comercial fisher who takes many many limits a day. And I dont keep fish. I hate to eat them and hate to clean them. If someone wants me to keep them I may But they clean and the come and get them from me. But rarely do I keep fish.


It's your choice to not keep fish (I did notice your photo has a few in it however). It's also my choice to keep my limit if I like. We can drive the speed limit or we can drive below it. It's our choice. That's the great thing about having choices and freedoms. If the law were changed to lower the limit, it would still be a limit. If the law made it so that no fish could be kept, I would still fish. I don't keep many fish either (I released the one in my photo). It's all about obeying the law, and if everyone did that we probably wouldn't even be talking about this.


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## DMC (Apr 2, 2006)

I will answer the OP.

I do not think guides are acting as catalysts for depletion of the "resource". Their behavior (case by case) is beside the point. The question is whether or not a guided trip depletes more resources than unguided trips (collectively). That has to be a resounding no. How many people stop at their limit when they are fishing? I would say almost all guided trips never allow clients to keep more than a limit whereas unguided trips have no oversight. People can keep 100 trout if they get into them in the surf or anywhere they can murder them. Sure they have to land somewhere, but there are so many boathouses and unattended cleaning stations (depending on time of day) that it's feasible to take much more than your limit on a daily basis. Even if you just sit there and catch and release juvenile trout all day, you are likely killing the fish if they are swallowing the shrimp or croaker, and there's no limit on the floating trout. A dead 8" trout is just as dead as a dead 29" trout.


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## Back Bay boy (Apr 7, 2010)

I never said anything about not keeping fish. I dont keep them becouse I dont like the taste. I dont buy into this whole lower the limit mumbo jumbo. I said it and will say it again I think we go way overboard on the conservation thing. I know people dont agree who cares. I have gone fishing with buddies and they take my limit becouse I dont want them. Lets see how many people like that. I have not been fishing with a single person (and I fish alot atleast 2 times a week) that didnt say I will keep your limit put it in the box. Quit the contrary they like to fish with me. All I say is leave me to fish and worry about your own boat and bag limit. Just sayin


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## plasticsnaks (Sep 22, 2009)

dwilliams35 said:


> Yes, the guides are just taking licensed fishermen out, each of whom has a right to keep their 10 (or 5) trout: One thing that isn't mentioned, though, is where those fishermen would be without that guide: wadefishing Christmas bay? On TCD catching hardheads and black drum? If there's a negative impact, it's just from a glut of guides "enabling" a bunch of people that otherwise wouldn't be "affecting" that particular sector of the resource: just jacking up the pressure, and the more guides the worse the pressure.. Sooner or later that increase in pressure turns into fewer fish, be it from going in a cooler, dying from hook wounds, or just plain "migrating" to lower-pressure locales..


Totally agree...It was sickening year after year to see limits of dead huge trout hanging on nails with "joe customer" and buds posing behind their guided "trophy" catch from ulm/baffin...thank God tpw imposed the upper limit of one over 25"..and for all you naysayers.. do you think that without the upper limit rule the same bs wouldnt still be goin on now???Ya know,I've been fishing this area since 1989 and have seen the sheer number of guides explode.Be it new faces or guides migrating from other bay systems...I have no beef with guides in general but there has to be a point in time where enough is enough..There are too many of the type of guides or may I say "greed mongers" who's since of productivity relies on customer's retained limits rather than common since..Funny,one would think that these people would see it very important to explain to customers(many who think that limits automatically go with a guided trip) the need to not be greedy in order to at least keep said guide in business...Hang out at any ramp around the ULM/baffin (especially croaker season),and witness for yourself the daily meat hauls...oh excuse me,"the daily guided fishing outing pic sessions" and multiply what you just witnessed by hundreds,(to cover the entire texas coast) and then multiply that by the number of "weather permiting" fishing days,lets say,for a summer...For anyone saying that this has no impact,it's obvious that you must perceive our bays as having infinite and daily renewable trout populations..I hate big government and being told how I must act with our natural resources.But It's very obvious that greed + $$$ = everyone is affected..TPW, please go to 5 or less trout limits!!!


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## saltaholic (Feb 19, 2005)

I agree with you for the most part but I do know several great guides that take conservation more seriously than most people do and practice catch and release or just keep enough for dinner etc.. The pics of dead fish hanging day after day do get extremely old.....


plasticsnaks said:


> Totally agree...It was sickening year after year to see limits of dead huge trout hanging on nails with "joe customer" and buds posing behind their guided "trophy" catch from ulm/baffin...thank God tpw imposed the upper limit of one over 25"..and for all you naysayers.. do you think that without the upper limit rule the same bs wouldnt still be goin on now???Ya know,I've been fishing this area since 1989 and have seen the sheer number of guides explode.Be it new faces or guides migrating from other bay systems...I have no beef with guides in general but there has to be a point in time where enough is enough..There are too many of the type of guides or may I say "greed mongers" who's since of productivity relies on customer's retained limits rather than common since..Funny,one would think that these people would see it very important to explain to customers(many who think that limits automatically go with a guided trip) the need to not be greedy in order to at least keep said guide in business...Hang out at any ramp around the ULM/baffin (especially croaker season),and witness for yourself the daily meat hauls...oh excuse me,"the daily guided fishing outing pic sessions" and multiply what you just witnessed by hundreds,(to cover the entire texas coast) and then multiply that by the number of "weather permiting" fishing days,lets say,for a summer...For anyone saying that this has no impact,it's obvious that you must perceive our bays as having infinite and daily renewable trout populations..I hate big government and being told how I must act with our natural resources.But It's very obvious that greed + $$$ = everyone is affected..TPW, please go to 5 or less trout limits!!!


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## DMC (Apr 2, 2006)

Back Bay boy said:


> I never said anything about not keeping fish. I dont keep them becouse I dont like the taste. I dont buy into this whole lower the limit mumbo jumbo. I said it and will say it again I think we go way overboard on the conservation thing. I know people dont agree who cares. I have gone fishing with buddies and they take my limit becouse I dont want them. Lets see how many people like that. I have not been fishing with a single person (and I fish alot atleast 2 times a week) that didnt say I will keep your limit put it in the box. Quit the contrary they like to fish with me. All I say is leave me to fish and worry about your own boat and bag limit. Just sayin


Agree 100%


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## The Last Mango (Jan 31, 2010)

The answer is no...........most "guides" I know coud'nt catch fried fish with a fork and ketchup.


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## cruss (Aug 31, 2005)

*croakers*

If croakers were banned two thirds of these guides would dry up and go away.


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## guiness (May 9, 2005)

Hate these discussions but input into our sport is always interesting. Grew up on the coast and have lived inland for some 40 years. My trips are limited and I go for the sport and the meat. That said, I remember the 130 trout in an afternoon days of the 70's....and the cleaning that goes with them. But the meat was for food and none was wasted. I believe it was the big freeze of the early 80's that really impacted our sport. In its on way it was probably a blessing. I remember the water and banks of St. Charles Bay solid with ice and dead fish. That said consider this. We were in Rockport this past Friday afternoon and all day Saturday. Friday 12 undersized trout and Saturday 75 plus trout caught and 4, that's four, quatro, kept that was legal to keep. Tasted good. Those eight fillets cost in fuel, room, meals, 1 pint of shrimp and 2 dozen croakers, and artificial baits about $360 for the two of us. But that's my choice of sports and for enjoying what the good Lord lets me see of his creation. Nothing caught on croaker and majority caught on artificial. My buddy bought the bait I prefer artificial. I don't want the limits changed. That's been done. The results are still out. I do believe we are headed in the right direction. TPW surveyors were at the ramp and asking for fishermen to participate in the survey. Unbelievable how many folks walked away from them. So who really knows what the truth is. How many locals put in at non public ramps and never see TPW unless they are stopped on the water. 

As far as guides go. Some folks do not have boats. They consider paying a guide as the better part of making boat payments. He!! they're probably the smart ones. Except for a couple of rare instances guides I come across have always been curtious.... but not always nice when they roll up on their spot and I'm there. That's o.k., my day doesn't always goes my way either. I helped a guide on Lake Travis on several occasions when he was overbooked. And I tell you what. I would rather babysit a room full of 2 year old brats with sharp knives, blood in their eyes and a dose of the squirts for a half day than take another group of folks out who want their lines baited, their sandwiches and drinks ready and can you find a place to go to the restroom. Guides are a special breed and I'm not one of them. 

Leave it alone. If you're not catching what you think is your share, try getting better at it or take up another sport like maybe needlepoint.


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