# Pringle, Contee, Power Fish Kill - A different perspective



## JohnHumbert (May 21, 2004)

No one is more saddened to hear the reports of the fish kill, especially of big trout, in Pringle and Contee as I am. While I have not witness the kill personally, I was there for the XMAS '04 kill and I can imagine the scene - and the impact - pretty well.

But I am also laughing to myself. Why, do you ask? How could I laugh about this?

Well, here's a different perspective. I know the area very well, and as others have postulated - all these were most likely resident fish that rarely, if ever, leave these lakes. I have been saying for many years that there are A LOT of big trout in these lakes - Heck, me and Pat SEE them all the time. However, I was even shocked in '04 - as many are now - that there were THAT MANY 27"-30" in the lake. Hundreds and Hundreds.

I am laughing because these fish have made fools of us all! While we have been lamenting on C&R (great ethic!), just keep 5 (I fully support), and bemoaning the trout populations being down (which they are) - there has been a huge population of big trout in a relatively small area that have eluded capture all year. What a joke on all of us fishing the area.

While we have been strenously support and conversing the resource, the vast majority of big trout in Pringle and Contee are going uncaught and dying of natural causes!

The junior game wardens pounce on an individual keeping a single legal big trout while hundreds of others in this one small area go happily on their way unknown by all anglers. Kinda puts things in a different perspective. Mother nature has put a whammy on the big trout that pales in comparision to the heavy pressure by the thousands of serious anglers that pound that lake every year. I'd be willing to bet than less than 24 big trout were caught out of Pringle this entire year by all anglers that fished it - and maybe 20x or 30x - or even 50x that number of big trout went completely untouched - not to mention those that DIDN'T die from the freeze that are still out there - and I garantee you there are still a bunch out there.

And please don't tell me those fish just recently moved into the lake. If you do, you don't know how those areas work and how they get populated with fish. I do, and I can tell you with certainly they've been in there all year.

Something to think about.... think about how many big trout there are still out there in other lakes that weren't affected - or the reefs - or the outside shorelines.

The kill is sad for sure - but keep things in perspective - and you, like me, might end up with a little wicked smile.


----------



## Speckwrangler (May 27, 2004)

I was thinking the same thing! Maybe I need to spend some more time in those lakes grinding... I just want to touch one.


----------



## txfishon (Jul 17, 2006)

*WELL SAID*

Very well said John ... Kind of like all the bucks that are picture stars on game cams !!! And no one ever sees them ... Just my take !!

A lot of trout go unseen and unharmed ... If we would have "trout cams" people would never leave some fishing grounds !!

Freddy


----------



## flounderdaddy (Aug 2, 2009)

Just like the so called flounder problem. Give me a freaking break! Close the whole month of November to gigging. You cats better watch for what you ask for.


----------



## Naterator (Dec 2, 2004)

Wow, good call on the free information post...keep it up and maybe we can get some of the east matty "Big Girl" posters to set up shop in Pringle and quit contributing to the ruining of east matty by virtue of free internet advertising and the resulting overcrowding. Tongue firmly in cheek...


----------



## JohnHumbert (May 21, 2004)

*LOL!!*

Hard to fool them big girls!

You know, back when I was much younger and dumber, an old salt in the area (from which I learned lots) was able to consistenly catch big trout. Almost on demand. I once bet him he couldn't catch a big trout on that day - when we met up for beers that evening in his trailer - he had caught not one, but two big trout that day!

As I forked over $50 with egg on my face, he proceeded to lecture me on how many big trout where in the lakes, and that reason that most folks didn't catch 'em was that they just didn't know how or had the patience and dedication to catch 'em. They were way too finicky, uppitty, smart and wary for most anglers. He actually didn't like catching them, he said it took too much time and effort and - for him - wasn't worth the time. He liked redfish and "fryer" trout. But he could catch them any time he wanted.

Used to think he was BSing me - but as I get older I realize what an incredible angler he was. He never bragged or boasted, and never ever showed off his catch - except when schooling a young, know-it-all boy angler.

His name.... Norman Bennett of Victoria.


----------



## Naterator (Dec 2, 2004)

yep...I'd be okay with gigging limited to a few months a year...a "hunting season" if you will...and the total ban of all commercial gigging. If you don't think flounder have been decimated in recent years you either don't fish much or can't / won't read the research. Good job TP&W!



flounderdaddy said:


> Just like the so called flounder problem. Give me a freaking break! Close the whole month of November to gigging. You cats better watch for what you ask for.


----------



## Cork & Jig (Jan 5, 2010)

> The junior game wardens pounce on an individual keeping a single legal big trout while hundreds of others in this one small area go happily on their way unknown by all anglers. Kinda puts things in a different perspective.


This is so true. I've been trying to tell people this for years.

IMO, if you catch a large trout(28"+) there can be a bunch of others around. You just got "lucky" and managed to doupe one of them. BTW, they don't get that big falling for every bait that they come across. THey've "learned" a thing or two about how to survive.


----------



## flounderdaddy (Aug 2, 2009)

Don't belive all of the so called research. Been gigging my whole life and have not noticed any difference in the number of flounder. Will out fish you anytime, any place Naterator. So go write a book and we will read it.


----------



## "Reddrum" (Dec 15, 2005)

*Lakes*

It might take a little longer than in the past but mother nature will start restocking the lakes with the bull tides of spring. They'll need some time to grow but I can't blame lake fish for being finicky. I wouldn't feel like eating either if there were 100+ airplanes buzzing 1' over my head every summer day!


----------



## Cork & Jig (Jan 5, 2010)

> Don't belive all of the so called research. Been gigging my whole life and have not noticed any difference in the number of flounder.


They just aren't one of those fish that you will accidentally catch very many of, IMO. I don't gig as much as much as I use to, but I can certainly say that the times I've specifically targeted flounder, with a rod and reel, I've been pretty darn successful.


----------



## Levi (Mar 6, 2006)

If I were to tell you how big one trout I saw this fall in a 10in deep lake you would call ,me a liar.... I nearly shat myself...


----------



## Sow Trout (Jun 28, 2004)

I know two guides who have seen what they say is a 36" trout multiple times in a shallow lake, but can never get it to bite. I hope it survived.


----------



## JohnnyWalkerRed (May 3, 2007)

Nice post. Makes we wanna explore some shallow lakes in the johnboat.


----------



## tcjay2 (Jul 24, 2008)

JohnHumbert said:


> Hard to fool them big girls!
> 
> You know, back when I was much younger and dumber, an old salt in the area (from which I learned lots) was able to consistenly catch big trout. Almost on demand. I once bet him he couldn't catch a big trout on that day - when we met up for beers that evening in his trailer - he had caught not one, but two big trout that day!
> 
> ...


John,

I also knew Norman fairly well, and you couldn't have been more correct. He was an "old salt" who was hard to beat in any type of friendly fishing contest. He was one of my teachers in high school, and I don't know if I've ever met a nicer guy. He and my uncle were very good friends, and shared a cabin down at Shoalwater Flats. I fished with him on many occasions, and learned a lot. He definitely did like to chase the reds, but knew where to find the big trout also. Your theory made me smile too, as I spend most of the winter months between Pringle, Contee, Fifth, and Power. Guess I'll have to really try to remember some of those tips Norman tried to show a young kid. Maybe then I can fool a few more?


----------



## Capt. Kris Kelley (Jun 2, 2004)

*Fish In Power Lake*

John,

Thanks for your guidance and input on this, as always you offer a level headed perspective with countless years of experience backing it up. I loved your story about Norman Bennett.

I've got a story of my own about an old salt, kind of a jolly fellow, hard to read at times, but always jovial. I was wet behind the ears; fighting my way through a myriad of well established competition; and was a rookie and the only full-time fishing guide west of Port O; and I got to know this guy that quietly and confidently pursued big Trout in the lakes.

I wouldn't see him often, but I would see him consistently during certain months. He told me about a couple of topwaters that I needed to get. Everyone has an opinion on this, but when this guy opened his mouth I made a bee-line to the store and loaded the cart. I don't know how many fish we caught using the lures he recommended but it was incredible how they outperformed all of the "big name" stuff at the time. I can remember one time when a buddy and I were scouting. I only had one of the particular topwaters in the boat and it was on my rod. My friend, an international fly-fisherman got a spanking as the lure produced fish after fish while we fished "side-by side".

The advice and recommendations of this "salt" didn't fall on deaf ears and I credit myself with being smart enough to "listen and learn". While that old-timer, like alot of us, may not be as good as he once was, but he's as good once as he ever was!

His name was John Humbert.

I've been slow to release these photos because I didn't want to get beat over the head for some kind of "grand-standing" or anything like that. Most of the floaters were picked up by locals and the likes. The fish in the picture (note that's a size 13 flip flop) were all fileted. According to Capt. James, another boat in Power had picked up 25 all over 25" before he got in there. In each of the lakes, the fish were floating pretty much in the dead middle and deepest part of the lakes.

Regards,

Double K


----------



## railbird (Jan 2, 2009)

Biggest trout I've seen was in a very shallow lake. It dwarfed the 30" fish my buddy had in the boat. She was mounted and now occupies a place of honor in his home. 

chuck


----------



## Redfishr (Jul 26, 2004)

What a cryin shame............


----------



## garybryan (Nov 23, 2009)

Those are some awesome stories. Theres always been large numbers of fish & animals out there that outsmart most people. Thats where the trophies come from. Just like mother nature takes them away she also puts them back.


----------



## jloh (May 20, 2009)

*flounder restrictions*

a POC resident commented to me that the flounder restrictions will result in increased flounder population. The bad news is that flounders are predators that will eat juvenile trout and redfish. There may be alterations in those gamefish. Something to consider.


----------



## moganman (Mar 30, 2006)

GREAT POINT! Only thing that is bad is that these big females that died are our breeders and since they grew that big they have good genes and their offspring will have the same capability to grow big.


----------



## JimD (May 25, 2004)

John,

As always super post with great perspective.

JimD


----------



## JohnHumbert (May 21, 2004)

moganman said:


> GREAT POINT! Only thing that is bad is that these big females that died are our breeders and since they grew that big they have good genes and their offspring will have the same capability to grow big.


This is a common misconception. There is no "big trout" gene like there is for Florida-strain largemouth bass. ANY trout will grow to trophy size if it eludes predators, keeps eating, and lives past 7 years of age. TPW&D tried to identify in earnest a way to identify something about Baffin trout to explain why these fish grew so big. While they did note some tiny differences between trout and different bay systems, no evidence was ever found of a "big trout' gene - and so the expectations of a Trophy Trout program (similar to what was done for bass) was scrapped.

In addition, it is also a misconcept that the bigger trout are the key fish for egg production. In fact, the OPPOSITE is true. It has been shown that once a trout gets big (I believe it was 25+") their egg production capacity begins to diminish - and those really, really big trout often have trouble producing high numbers of viable eggs. There is still reseach going on.

The hard reality - although it is hard for many to accept - that the VAST majority of egg production - and the main "breeder" class of trout are the smaller fish - 2 to 4 year olds in the 2-4 pound class. Big trout, say over 26", are INSIGNIFICANT to the proliferation of the population.

As the fish kill should show folks -as I have stated - there are LOTS of big trout out there. More than most folks realize. The reason you don't see them being caught regularly - except by a few folks - is that they are exceptionally hard to catch. We're probably only catching 5% of the big trout.

I've always said - to many detractors - they are plenty of big trout in the POC area - and just as big as points south. But the nature of the fishing areas where they are located makes them very hard to target, stalk, and catch. It is much, much easier to "sneak up" on a big trout in 2-3' of water on a outside shoreline in Baffin than it is to get close to a big girl in 6" of water in a back, back lake. In addition, Baffin is a large bay and you will get SCHOOLS of big fish traversing shorelines - so your chances of pucking one of them is higher than a solitary fish in a back lake.

Let me tell you a story that illustrates the point. For two years, Pat and I kept seeing a HUGE trout (30+" class fish) on a sandy patch in one of the larger back lakes. I mean we'd see it most days we cruised the area. It was alone, there is virtually no grass or bait in the area - just a featureless big sand flat apart of the rest of the lake (which, btw, is a common type of area that we consistently see big trout - big barren sand flat away from where 95% of folks fish).

We decided to try to catch this fish. We tried morning, noon, and night. Never caught it or had a follow. Tried wading, drifting, and even a slow creep on the bank. Tried bait, and every lure you could find imaginable - but no luck. Most times we wouldn't even SEE the fish during a long wade, but when we'd get back to the boat and zoom off across the flat - there'd she be! Finally, in a desperation move, we tried a "team approach". After buzzing past the edge of the flat and confirming she was there about 200 yards away - I dropped Pat off on lower end and moved the boat to the upper end. We could see her, and the though was I could "guide" Pat into position to make a shot while I stayed in an observation position on the top of the boat. Between the two of us we should be able sneak/squeeze up on her and one of us would have a shot. That was the plan anyway.

Well, here's what happened. Pat started about 300 yards away from the boat. The trout was plaining visible on the bright sand roughly in the middle of us (about 150 yards away). Pat started a stealth wade on the outside, keeping the fish between himself and the shore while I "plugged" the only apparent escape route. The fish stayed virtually motionless until Pat got within 20 ft of casting distance. Then the next 3' step he made, the fish moved slowly away by 3'. Pat moved again, and the fish once again made another slight movement - always keeping just out of casting range. (How that fish knew what our casting range was I'll never know, because Pat never made a cast). Slowly he was pushing the fish towards me. I grinned because I thought sooner or later the fish would be within MY range and I'd get a shot. Every step Pat made, the fish would move that much further away. And this was still a LONG way from the angler. When the gap closed where the fish was just out of range from both of us, she gave ONE big kick of her tail and glided effortless off the flat, just out of range of both of us and retreated over the grass in the lake where she just virtually disappeared.

D-a-m-n we thought - one smart fish. Pat completed his wade and came back to the boat. As soon as he got back into the boat, here comes the trout gliding back on the flat - out of range. She sat up in her "ambush" position (tail to the shoreline) and stayed there. Pat eased over the side of the boat with his rod. As soon as he did, the fish once again gave one big kick with her tail and guided off the flat.

This went on for THREE HOURS until we gave up in disgust.

I should add here that Pat, once in the water, NEVER saw the fish. His vantage point was too low. If we had both been wading, we'd never have known there was a monster trout on that flat. Our conclusion would have been "no fish here". Another note...that fish never once turned it's back(tail) to the approaching angler. In fact, she would change her orientation to keep her head roughly in the direction of Pat. Only turned tail when she decided to scoot off. It was OBVIOUS that the fish KNEW someone was in the water - even up to 200 yards away - and would get really intent when he got within 80-100 yards.

We have tried this several times since then with other fish on other flats - and the results are pretty much the same. We tried adding people to the stalk and completely cutting off escape routes - and the only difference it made was the fish would scoot off quicker - and VERY quickly if we ever got within range.

This is the nature of big trout in the back lakes.

Now we did eventually find a way to target these fish. What we eventually discovered - and here's a big "secret" - is that these fish would NEVER eat when they are in their "spot" like this. These are always "resting spots", not "feeding spots". However, there will be another spot close by that the fish will move to when she is ready to feed. They will feed in that area for a very short window - then immediately retreat to their "resting" spot.

So we take note when we see a big fish on a resting spot. Then figure out where her "feeding spot" is (won't tell you the secret of figuring that out, except to say that if you watch them long enough, you'll discover that they usually have very consistent ways/directions of moving on and off their spots.). After we know where a fish is located, we'll note when she's NOT there, indicating that she is off feeding. Then hit the feeding spot over and over during the suspected feeding times. You do this - and the chances of getting a big trout will tip ever so slightly in your favor.

And the really amazing thing is this. If we ever harvest one of these big fish - within a short window - ANOTHER big one will show up in the same spot. So in the lakes, we definitely have a dozen or so "big trout" spots where we consistently spot big fish. But we'll take that information to our graves.


----------



## fishnfool (Jul 23, 2004)

JohnHumbert said:


> This is a common misconception. There is no "big trout" gene like there is for Florida-strain largemouth bass. ANY trout will grow to trophy size if it eludes predators, keeps eating, and lives past 7 years of age. TPW&D tried to identify in earnest a way to identify something about Baffin trout to explain why these fish grew so big. While they did note some tiny differences between trout and different bay systems, no evidence was ever found of a "big trout' gene - and so the expectations of a Trophy Trout program (similar to what was done for bass) was scrapped.
> 
> In addition, it is also a misconcept that the bigger trout are the key fish for egg production. In fact, the OPPOSITE is true. It has been shown that once a trout gets big (I believe it was 25+") their egg production capacity begins to diminish - and those really, really big trout often have trouble producing high numbers of viable eggs. There is still reseach going on.
> 
> ...


Maybe the best info ever posted on this site - awesome story!


----------



## Texas Jeweler (Nov 6, 2007)

*save this*



JohnHumbert said:


> This is a common misconception. There is no "big trout" gene like there is for Florida-strain largemouth bass. ANY trout will grow to trophy size if it eludes predators, keeps eating, and lives past 7 years of age. TPW&D tried to identify in earnest a way to identify something about Baffin trout to explain why these fish grew so big. While they did note some tiny differences between trout and different bay systems, no evidence was ever found of a "big trout' gene - and so the expectations of a Trophy Trout program (similar to what was done for bass) was scrapped.
> 
> In addition, it is also a misconcept that the bigger trout are the key fish for egg production. In fact, the OPPOSITE is true. It has been shown that once a trout gets big (I believe it was 25+") their egg production capacity begins to diminish - and those really, really big trout often have trouble producing high numbers of viable eggs. There is still reseach going on.
> 
> ...


_____________________________________________________

If there was ever a post worth printing and re-reading, this is it !


----------



## southtxhunter (Feb 1, 2005)

Texas Jeweler said:


> _____________________________________________________
> 
> If there was ever a post worth printing and re-reading, this is it !


X's2


----------



## sanleonjohn (Mar 16, 2009)

*big fish*

Great post/thread. I agree, there are more big trout out there than most people realize. The question is, how to catch them. One thing that has helped me, is to quit chasing all over the place chasing fish. Choose 2 or 3 spots that, between them, hold fish year around. Learn those spots really,really well. Big trout, 25+, will have certain areas they like to feed. These spots can be fairly small in diameter. After that is mainly about approach and presentation, Also, combine as many favorable environmental conditions as possible. Wind, tides, etc. Do not be afraid to try something new. Sometimes, a new lure or color combination will trigger a strike out a fish that had been turning up its nose at your previous offerings. I also agree that our fish in the 20-25 range are the most important ones to release if you want to practice conservation. They are our most important breeders, plus they are our big girls of the immediate future. tight lines


----------



## Caveman (Jul 21, 2004)

*great read*

Thanks for the initial post and the follow up story John. Great read and a great perspective. One thing I will say (with all due respect) when reading your story about stalking the big trout on the flat, I just kept thinking that Pat should figure out a way to cast 20 feet farther! Anyway, I guess it wouldn't have mattered since the old girl was just sitting on her resting spot.

I have 2 encouters with huge trout - quite the opposite of yours. One in Pringle and once in the mouth of a creek over near "the curve", Sunday Beach or whatever they call it now. Both times I was wading near drains casting a fly at tailing reds and both times huge trout swam within 20 yards of me. They were cruising very slowly almost as if they were in a trance. They didn't spook, no matter how much racket I made clumsily trying to get a fly in front of them.

My biggest, 28 inches, was caught pitching a fly into a spot where a bunch of bait was getting torn up on the shoreline just outside Pringle. Again, I was targeting redfish with a fly up on the shoreline in very shallow water. I missed another opportunity at that spot during the first troutmasters that I fished. The fish was easily 28-29 inches and hit in a deep gut that runs very tight to the shoreline. I didn't see her the first time she hit my superspook and missed, but I watch the second and third hit just 15-20 feet away. I had her on briefly, but she managed to get some shell (I guess) between the rod and herself. She stole my superspook and my spirits that day.

I guess my point is that it's not always hard to get close to them. Sometimes they just sneak up on you. I have seen three 28 inch plus trout on the water. I got one to bite. The other two paid me no attention. The one I managed to catch was blind luck...just casting where some bait was getting torn up.

Caveman


----------



## deke (Oct 5, 2004)

flounderdaddy said:


> Don't belive all of the so called research. Been gigging my whole life and have not noticed any difference in the number of flounder. Will out fish you anytime, any place Naterator. So go write a book and we will read it.


Wow what a shocker, a gigger mad he can't go fill his cooler every night during the run. I'll stick with what TP&W say and what I have seen with my own eyes the last decade over someone who is just mad he can't keep filling his ice chests.


----------



## JohnHumbert (May 21, 2004)

*Caveman...*

Yes sir! Obviously there are times you can get close to them otherwise no one would ever catch 'em! The fish I've CAUGHT have all been situations like you describe. Either I see the fish up close and it's feeding, or I don't see 'em at all and just "luck" into them.

Just because they're up shallow doesn't mean they are in their "resting spot" - because they feed up shallow too! The BEST, most satisfying fish are the ones you see cruising around up shallow and can sight cast to them.

Plenty of dudes sight-cast tons of reds - but sight casting trout is the rarest, and my opinion, one of the most difficult pursuits. Even compared to the permit, which is widely regarded the toughest sight-casting quarry on the flats. All I know is that have sight-casted plenty of permit, even some big permit - and it is childs play compared to stalking and sight-casting a big trout. In my entire life, I can count the number of big trout I've sight-casted on my fingers, with digits to spare.

And when I say big trout, I'm talking about trout 27" or 28" or better. In my experience, there's seems to be some sort of magical happening when a trout reaches 27". There is a big drop in numbers, according to my catch logs, in the number of fish caught from 25-26" to 27-28". Big drop. And seems to hold true for me all up and down the coast.

It seems that once a trout gets 27", they tend to be mostly loners. Except for Baffin where big trout seem to be more interspersed with a bit smaller fish in schools. In addition, especially in Baffin, in about a month - finding a school of dinks (12"-14") often means there are a few monsters patrolling the deep edge of the school. But they are clearly not schooling with the dinks, they are feeding on them!

In the POC/Seadrift area - most ALL the big trout we see are loners. Most of the loners we see "resting" in shallow water are completely alone - no other fish of any species nearby, no bait, nothing. The areas look really "un-fishy" - barren areas, devoid of structure, and therefore never see much angling activity. Not always remote though.

Case in point. There is a big barren sand flat just in front of the coast guard station. This is the big barren sand flat just to the right as you leave Saluria. This area sees a lot of boat traffic, as many boats "cut the corner" of this flat as they leave Saluria and head to the pass, Sunday beach, or Fish Pond.

Now we don't often fish up in that area, as we concentrate mostly on the lower lakes from Pringle to second chain. But about every 2nd or 3rd time we're up there - and cross that flat on plane - we'll spot a huge fish up there all by herself. No bait, no grass, nothing but this lone big trout. Once we saw a fish that had to be pushing 36" and over 10lbs!! And trust me, this flat is a "resting spot" - don't think they feed there at all. But if across the mouth of Saluria (to the left as you come out of Saluria), if there are mullet/bait on that corner and grassline - and you happen to spot a big trout on the barren flat. Well, let's just say I'd be wading throwing a black/chartruese head or bone topwater on that grassy corner the next morning right at daybreak - especially if there's a strong INCOMING tide at daybreak.

You hardly ever see anyone fishing that spot, but often see waders on the edge of the barren flat, especially going the other way towards the pass. Maybe because the grassy point is pretty yucky wading.

One tip if you fish that area in June, July, or August. Stay away from the deeper edge of the flat, especially where it drops off into deeper water. There are some BIG sharks that feed there. BIG sharks. HUNGRY sharks. Sharks that have no fear. Bulls mostly, in the 5-7ft range. But we've also seen Great Hammerheads too - upwards of 8-10ft in length. And if you are there in the spring, it can get covered up with stingrays - I think they spawn in the little cove there.

(And "no", I'm not worried about posting this information on the internet - because while many will "try" that area - very, very few will fish it consistently enough to strike paydirt - because if you aren't there at the right time, it's just another hard, yucky wade that doesn't produce squat)

Here's another secret tip. Back in the shallow lakes, big trout have an affinity for HARD structure in soft bottom. For example, an isolated small shell towhead in soft mud flat will attract a big trout like a magnet! Old metal junk left in the marsh on soft mud bottom is another example. Anything that is very hard - not wood - but rock, metal, concrete. Even if it is completely buried - somehow the trout know it's there and will hang in the area.

In fact, years ago after we discovered this, I placed 4 cinder blocks - each buried completely in the soft mud - at different spots here and there close to areas that we've seen "resting" trout. And don't worry folks - there's no danger to navigation, they are completely buried in the mud. Each of these spots over the years has turned into a spot where we have popped big trout on several occaisions. Sometimes we see a trout hanging directly on top of the buried block. I mean DIRECTLY on top of it.

These spots, along with some natural spots, have become our "milk run" when we focus on big trout - using starting in March. Each year weather plays a part - but if we hit it right - bull tide, light wind, and clear water - these spots are CONSISTENT in giving up big girls. In March, if the weather is right, it is rare that we don't run across at least one big girl after checking all the spots in a day.


----------



## Saltstalker (Jun 6, 2008)

Love the great reads in this post , greenies coming your way ! Wish there was more of this on 2cool . Thank You !


----------



## ROCKPORTFISHERMAN (Feb 14, 2009)

*Thanks*

What an awesome thread. Just hearing the names of Saluria, Fish Pond and Coast Guard station brought up some great fishing memories.
Thanks to all for sharing the stories.


----------



## moganman (Mar 30, 2006)

JohnHumbert said:


> This is a common misconception. There is no "big trout" gene like there is for Florida-strain largemouth bass. ANY trout will grow to trophy size if it eludes predators, keeps eating, and lives past 7 years of age. TPW&D tried to identify in earnest a way to identify something about Baffin trout to explain why these fish grew so big. While they did note some tiny differences between trout and different bay systems, no evidence was ever found of a "big trout' gene - and so the expectations of a Trophy Trout program (similar to what was done for bass) was scrapped.
> 
> In addition, it is also a misconcept that the bigger trout are the key fish for egg production. In fact, the OPPOSITE is true. It has been shown that once a trout gets big (I believe it was 25+") their egg production capacity begins to diminish - and those really, really big trout often have trouble producing high numbers of viable eggs. There is still reseach going on.
> 
> ...


Hmm good point. I didn't know that and I was Wildlife and Fisheries Sciences major at Texas A&M with a focus on aquaculture and I inquired to my professor who is well known for his studies on different fishes around the world asking him about different fish growing capabilities and he told me that the bigger the fish gets their offspring have a better chance of growing the same size and I was kinda shocked but he changed my mind from my previous philosophy. I did know that the smaller trout were better breeders as in most animals, but I didn't know that most trout could grow to the same size. We did a few studies on trout and redfish but none relevant to this discussion. Thanks for the clarification.


----------



## railbird (Jan 2, 2009)

*Thank you for this post*



JohnHumbert said:


> This is a common misconception. There is no "big trout" gene like there is for Florida-strain largemouth bass. ANY trout will grow to trophy size if it eludes predators, keeps eating, and lives past 7 years of age. TPW&D tried to identify in earnest a way to identify something about Baffin trout to explain why these fish grew so big. While they did note some tiny differences between trout and different bay systems, no evidence was ever found of a "big trout' gene - and so the expectations of a Trophy Trout program (similar to what was done for bass) was scrapped.
> 
> In addition, it is also a misconcept that the bigger trout are the key fish for egg production. In fact, the OPPOSITE is true. It has been shown that once a trout gets big (I believe it was 25+") their egg production capacity begins to diminish - and those really, really big trout often have trouble producing high numbers of viable eggs. There is still reseach going on.
> 
> ...


The only question I have here is about big trout not being our best breeders. I have read in many different publications that a mature trout over 25" will lay 2-5 million eggs per year, far exceeding what smaller trout can produce.

Now I have to say, your story of this trout rings so true for me. Most of you know I have a vantage point, from my buggy, that lets me see a vary large area. This being said, certain times of the year, I see hundreds of very large trout on the flats. I almost never get any reaction from them when i cast to them. The most common reaction is for them to swim off when I get close. I always wondered how i was going to catch those fish. Thank you so much for your insite.

chuck


----------



## chicken (Mar 21, 2005)

Thanks JohnHumbert,

In a world where many fisherman are "tight lipped", you have changed in one post the attitudes of many, many fisherman. You sir are a true fisherman, one freely giving knowledge so that it can be passed on way beyond your time on the water. 

People often asked me why I coached and I always told them it was out of respect to those who coached me when I was a kid and I felt their knowledge had to be passed on. In my heart you have become one of those coaches. . . . .


----------



## JohnHumbert (May 21, 2004)

chicken said:


> Thanks JohnHumbert,
> 
> In a world where many fisherman are "tight lipped", you have changed in one post the attitudes of many, many fisherman. You sir are a true fisherman, one freely giving knowledge so that it can be passed on way beyond your time on the water.
> 
> People often asked me why I coached and I always told them it was out of respect to those who coached me when I was a kid and I felt their knowledge had to be passed on. In my heart you have become one of those coaches. . . . .


Thanks to everyone for their nice comments and feedback. As I get long of tooth, I am more and more feeling the need to give back and leave something behind. I have a daughter, but she is not into fishing the way I am (more and more she likes hunting - go figure) and I have so learned so much over my life about the coast that I would like to pass on.

Maybe I should write a book?


----------



## Bayhouse (Jun 27, 2005)

If you wrote it, I'd buy it.


----------



## railbird (Jan 2, 2009)

x2


----------



## chicapesca (Jun 7, 2004)

JohnHumbert said:


> Maybe I should write a book?


That is a great idea John. I would look forward to it!


----------



## fishnfool (Jul 23, 2004)

JohnHumbert said:


> Thanks to everyone for their nice comments and feedback. As I get long of tooth, I am more and more feeling the need to give back and leave something behind. I have a daughter, but she is not into fishing the way I am (more and more she likes hunting - go figure) and I have so learned so much over my life about the coast that I would like to pass on.
> 
> Maybe I should write a book?


I'll send you cash now for the first copy....


----------



## gregzzz (Jan 21, 2010)

I'd be willing to bet than less than 24 big trout were caught out of Pringle this 
entire year by all anglers that fished it


dude I personally have caught that many this year. not bragging but come on 24 fish all year! just takes patience and confidence onward


----------



## That Robbie Guy (Aug 11, 2009)

Awesome read.

Made my conference call fly by. hahaha.


----------



## shauntexex (Dec 12, 2007)

gregzzz said:


> I'd be willing to bet than less than 24 big trout were caught out of Pringle this
> entire year by all anglers that fished it
> 
> dude I personally have caught that many this year. not bragging but come on 24 fish all year! just takes patience and confidence onward


Nice first post there Greg! Especially without any pictures. I'm sure I'm not alone on this board when I call bullchit on a comment like that. So your saying you've caught 24 plus trout last year over 27" in the backlakes of POC? Come on croaker soaker get a life......


----------



## GringoViejo (Feb 2, 2010)

*Excellent Read*

Great thread, I was going to post it was refreshing to read an informative thread that did not turn into a flamethrower event, but I was too slow.

And for the recorded I did not catch 24, 27 inch trout last year, but I promise to try harder in 2010.

Saludos...Frank


----------



## jodybo (May 26, 2006)

I have been secretly catching & releasing big trout back in there for years on corkys, I'm seriously bummed that my spots are being compromised by this **** freeze! What happened to global warming??!!!

Seriously!! But not really, I haven't caught a single trout in those lakes.


----------



## JimD (May 25, 2004)

Interesting old post


----------



## justletmein (Feb 11, 2006)

JimD said:


> Interesting old post


You scared the hell outa me with this 10 year old bump. Lol


----------



## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

JohnHumbert said:


> Hard to fool them big girls!
> 
> You know, back when I was much younger and dumber, an old salt in the area (from which I learned lots) was able to consistenly catch big trout. Almost on demand. I once bet him he couldn't catch a big trout on that day - when we met up for beers that evening in his trailer - he had caught not one, but two big trout that day!
> 
> ...


I knew Coach Norman Bennett quite well, and had the opportunity to fish with him a few times. My dad was head coach at Victoria High, Coach Bennett coached for him. He was quite the fisherman. I knew him mostly as fishing for redfish and he caught a lot of them. Memories


----------



## Aggieangler (May 28, 2004)

This scared the hell outta me too, thanks Jim!!!


----------



## Davidsel47 (Apr 10, 2019)

I was like OH ****, What did I miss! This is an old post. lol


----------



## pocjetty (Sep 12, 2014)

WillieT said:


> I knew Coach Norman Bennett quite well, and had the opportunity to fish with him a few times. My dad was head coach at Victoria High, Coach Bennett coached for him. He was quite the fisherman. I knew him mostly as fishing for redfish and he caught a lot of them. Memories


LOL. I learned a lot from Stormin' Norman. He was more than a good fisherman - he was the best I've ever known.

I remember guys having tournaments, and putting in at Shoalwater (Pepper Fulgham's). Norman never joined the tournaments, but he fished sort of parallel to them. Days when everyone would grind all day, he would be back at the dock before noon, sitting there waiting for them with way more than enough fish to have won. And he's just cackle and ask, "What took you guys so long?"

He used to fish a lot with those nasty manila envelope-colored grubs that he made himself. He'd put extra hardener in them so they would stay on the hook forever. (That's where I got hooked on that color.)

And if you ever said anything about him being such a great fisherman, he's say, "Shoot... I'm just plain vanilla."

I know this was a revival of a really old thread, but I didn't see it the first go 'round. And if anyone deserves to be remembered, it's Norman Bennet.


----------



## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

Norman Bennett was one of the best, not only as a fisherman, but as a person. I will always remember him and his wife Sukie with great fondness.

There were 2 other really great fishermen that I had the privilege to know because of my dad. Both from his days in Corpus Christi. One was Chatter Allen who was the athletic director when my dad coached at Miller. I never got to fish wwith him because I was too young, but he was considered one of the best big trout fishermen of his time.

The other was Dusty Simmons who died way too young. I was fortunate enough to fish with him on several occasions. He had a true love for fishing and excelled at it, both catching reds and trout. 

I missed this thread the first time around also, but it sure brought back some memories.


----------



## Fishwrangler (Jul 23, 2019)

A lot here...cool to see how not much has changed in 10 years.

For the aside on flounder, agree that gigging should be more restricted with personally thinking that flounder gigging out of boats at the very least should be eliminated. That would certainly, even the playing field for the flounder a bit.

As for the trout comments, they are consistent with my experience in that these “trophy trout” tend to hold in waters less than knee deep. While I had some personal observations of this occur from SA Bay to the Lower Laguna Madre where I caught my personal best 29 1/4” on the fly while looking for reds, Jay Watkins put things into perspective for me. These trout prefer the shallower depths as it creates a smaller strike zone. Thus, over the last 5 years while my other family members have taken the traditional approach of hitting the waist deep water, I’ve consistently produced better trout as I effort to find reds.

Moral of the story, if you want trophy trout, don’t shy away from the shallows unless it’s really cold in the winter.


----------



## 1fisher77316 (Oct 30, 2004)

John- Amen on Norman Bennet..He and a couple of other (for now) unnamed coaches could catch more and larger trout than any other fisherman I've had the privilege of knowing.
Tight lines!
Mike


----------



## c hook (Jul 6, 2016)

*right*



Fishwrangler said:


> A lot here...cool to see how not much has changed in 10 years.
> 
> For the aside on flounder, agree that gigging should be more restricted with personally thinking that flounder gigging out of boats at the very least should be eliminated. That would certainly, even the playing field for the flounder a bit.
> 
> ...


the big fish (27 and up)are normally within a few feet of the bank, regardless of cold water or not. 99.9% of all big fish I've witnessed, and it's been a lot, are on the bank. It's like they were sleeping in the high weeds on the shore, and as soon as day breaks, they slide back into the water.

And there really are no secret spots these days, however, the knowledge gained from decades on the water can narrow down and increase odds on the pig hunt. I typically stay away from small fish spots/areas, these areas hold numbers but slim chance of catching a brute. There are fish spots and then there are big fish spots. :texasflag


----------

