# Cracks in hull



## brian_t86 (May 24, 2017)

Hey everyone, long time lurker but first time posting on here. I bought a new to me 2016 boat (I'd rather not say make or model yet) with 10 hrs on it 2 months ago. This is my first boat. During this 2 months I've taken it out probably 7 times. I always wash the underside after every use. Yesterday whike spraying under the boat I immediately noticed a couple of DEEP cracks and gouges in the gel coat and fiberglass going front to back. These cracks are probably 3-4 ft long.

I have not abused the boat or hit anything to my knowledge. I would think I would have noticed if I had hit something hard enough to cause this. I'm just trying to figure out what could possibly cause this. I'm bringing the boat into the dealer next week but just trying to hear from some people that have maybe seen this before.


























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## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

Couldn't really tell in those first pictures but that last picture shows what looks to me like it hit something and really gouged the gel coat. 

Bad deal no matter what the cause.

TH


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## dk2429 (Mar 27, 2015)

**** son, that's pretty bad! Welcome to the forums by the way.

There had to be something knock on that boat. It takes a good deal of force to break a fiberglass hull. I'd also want to hear what others have to say. That's crazy!


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## bigfishtx (Jul 17, 2007)

Call your insurance agent and notify the dealer, let them fight it out who is responsible!


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## EvansMarine (Jun 7, 2010)

Definitely Impact Related! If you have full coverage we can get you fixed up, we work with Adjusters with all Companies all the time. We have a reputation with all them and can get your claim processed swiftly and timely!


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## LEDERMARINE (Apr 27, 2012)

What is that white crystal looking substance coming out of the fine cracks? If you did not hit something this could get ugly. 


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## saltaholic (Feb 19, 2005)

Could be impact with trailer bunks


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## Lone-Star (Dec 19, 2009)

What is the white stuff around the cracks? You would think if it was from hitting something there would be more scratching around the cracks


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## brian_t86 (May 24, 2017)

LEADERmm said:


> What is that white crystal looking substance coming out of the fine cracks? If you did not hit something this could get ugly.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm not sure what that stuff is. I didn't notice it until looking at the pic after I took it.

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## CLKELLEY78 (Feb 12, 2008)

I'd like to know the make and model because if you didn't hit anything, it could be a hull problem....


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## blackjack runner (Feb 24, 2015)

Hard to tell from pics, but don't see either scratches or any evident signs of impact that would justify this damage.
Disclosure:I am not a fiberglass specialist nor a marine surveyor, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last week.


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## SSST (Jun 9, 2011)

blackjack runner said:


> Hard to tell from pics, but don't see either scratches or any evident signs of impact that would justify this damage.
> Disclosure:I am not a fiberglass specialist nor a marine surveyor, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last week.


I'm with you on this, looks like a hull coming apart to me. Just seems you would see some pretty deep scratches leading into the bad area.


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## bwguardian (Aug 30, 2005)

In that last closeup picture, it appears the fiberglass mat is severed in two and you can see in the pictures above that, it looks to only occur in the top fracture line damage. Looks like some purdy thick gelcoat too...the fiberglass mat, not so much...


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## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

I don't know what caused it, but to me it appears very serious. That doesn't appear to be just gelcoat problems, but the whole thickness of the fiberglass appears broken.


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## yellowskeeter (Jul 18, 2008)




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## brian_t86 (May 24, 2017)

blackjack runner said:


> Hard to tell from pics, but don't see either scratches or any evident signs of impact that would justify this damage.
> 
> Disclosure:I am not a fiberglass specialist nor a marine surveyor, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last week.


Sorry for the poor quality of the pics. There definitely isn't any other cuts, scratches, gouges, or any other signs of impact around the pictured cracks which is what made me think this isn't impact related. And like I said originally, I would think I would notice had I hit something hard enough to cause this. I've babied this boat during the short time I've had it as I'm still learning its capabilities.

Thanks everyone for the input. It'll be a couple of weeks, but I'll keep everyone posted on what the dealer comes up with.

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## jcsimmons (Feb 15, 2017)

Holy cow, that looks terrible. Hope the insurance or the dealer take care of it.


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## 348473 (Apr 12, 2017)

In second picture looks like there is white adhesive ?? I'm betting .27 cents you got more than fiberglass issues going on. Green to you for being cool about it until you come to a resolution, whichever way it goes. That's probably the worst I've seen too. Was it progressive or did you put it on trailer one day and see it?! ****


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## Im Headed South (Jun 28, 2006)

Wow, that is bad, can't believe the hull wasn't full of water.


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## WineyFishrman (Aug 5, 2011)

I sure don't see any strike marks from those images,,, a 2016 hull? Looks like complete hull failure and BAD.

As others have posted,, get your insurance company involved NOW.


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## BigJake (Jul 1, 2004)

That looks bad... If you hit something, you'd have to have known. If it's a defective hull, please let us know. I'm about to pull the trigger on a boat. It's not bashing if you're truthful. Good thing is warranty and or insurance should cover it. Do you think you might have run up on your tire wells rough when loading? To me, it's either a very poor put together hull and fiberglass or you hit a submerged piling at 40 mph with a great wax job to hide streaks.


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## Mako232 (Sep 16, 2005)

The 3rd picture looks like an impact as evinced by deep scratches. The long parallel cracks could be secondary failure. Good luck to you.


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## waterman1971 (Aug 29, 2011)

This has to be a joke...Right?

Epic?


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## redexpress (Apr 5, 2010)

Do you know who you bought it from?
Could be previous damage?
It is insured right?
You have a McLain trailer?


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## brian_t86 (May 24, 2017)

hurricane matt said:


> In second picture looks like there is white adhesive ?? I'm betting .27 cents you got more than fiberglass issues going on. Green to you for being cool about it until you come to a resolution, whichever way it goes. That's probably the worst I've seen too. Was it progressive or did you put it on trailer one day and see it?! ****


I never noticed any "stress cracks" or other signs of damage. I literally noticed it while washing down yesterday afternoon. I always look under while washing myself but I did take it through a drive up boat wash in Rockport the weekend before this past one and didn't look under then so it's possible it happened between then and yesterday. If it started happening before then, I just hadn't noticed.

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## brian_t86 (May 24, 2017)

waterman1971 said:


> This has to be a joke...Right?
> 
> Epic?


I wish this were a joke. I'm not sure I understand what you mean by epic?

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## waterman1971 (Aug 29, 2011)

brian_t86 said:


> I wish this were a joke. I'm not sure I understand what you mean by epic?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sorry man, why not let us know which manufacturer to avoid when making a new boat purchase?


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## brian_t86 (May 24, 2017)

redexpress said:


> Do you know who you bought it from?
> Could be previous damage?
> It is insured right?
> You have a McLain trailer?


I still have all of the sellers info and have talked to him since the sale

I don't have reason to think this is damage he was aware of if it was there before he sold to me

I do have insurance

The trailer is a coastline

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## waterman1971 (Aug 29, 2011)

The fiberglass looks dry. Maybe a bad layup?


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## Outearly (Nov 17, 2009)

What is that sticking out of the crack in the third photo? Stick? Wire?


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## Flat's Hunter (Oct 18, 2007)

. 

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## Rods&Cones (Jun 23, 2016)

Outearly said:


> What is that sticking out of the crack in the third photo? Stick? Wire?


Looks like fiberglass.


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## dk2429 (Mar 27, 2015)

brian_t86 said:


> I wish this were a joke. I'm not sure I understand *what you mean by epic?
> *
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Epic is a boat company. It'd help a lot of folks to know what kind of boat this is


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## brian_t86 (May 24, 2017)

Outearly said:


> What is that sticking out of the crack in the third photo? Stick? Wire?


I didn't notice it when I took the pic. I think it could possibly be grass?

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## Action BC (May 9, 2017)

Seems like a hull warranty issue


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## rmiller4292 (Oct 17, 2009)

I think the white stuff is salt crystals from saltwater weeping out of the cracks and drying. If you have grass in the crack, were you running really shallow? Did an excessive amount of water drain out of the hull when you pulled the boat out?


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## 3GENTS_Fishing (May 16, 2014)

Is the trailer spec for your boat? Make sure the previous owner didn't swap it for whatever reason and replace it with this one thinking it was fine. Could've happened in tow as I would think you'd notice a huge difference on the water when running. It would pull like crazy on plane with those deep cracks. You'd also notice a huge drag in performance due to excess water weight.


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## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

Outearly said:


> What is that sticking out of the crack in the third photo? Stick? Wire?





Rods&Cones said:


> Looks like fiberglass.


I think he is referring to this. Good question...


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## RRfisher (Mar 5, 2007)

waterman1971 said:


> This has to be a joke...Right?
> 
> Epic?


That was my guess, but his response seems to imply it's not.


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## Outearly (Nov 17, 2009)

To the OP - If I were in your shoes, I would take it to a third party first - Evans? - and have them just look at it, get good pictures, and get an opinion from them.

Once the boat is at the dealership it'll be harder to get that second opinion.

One last comment - the fiberglass doesn't have the coloration I would expect from wetted out fiberglass. It looks too white to me, too fluffy around the edges. I have no expertise, but have done some repairs and seen damage on my boat. Yours just looks different.


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## EvansMarine (Jun 7, 2010)

First thing I would get my Surveyor involved if it was here, Gordon would document and get to bottom of the issue and provide paper work that is certified to Insurance and or Hull Company that would be beneficial to the customer. Just getting this out here, not all companies are used to dealing with Surveyors and Insurance Adjusters. There is a lot of things going on right there that need someone that does this and will fight for you. We have been thru many claims like this and you need a company that knows the ins and out I guarantee.


Outearly said:


> To the OP - If I were in your shoes, I would take it to a third party first - Evans? - and have them just look at it, get good pictures, and get an opinion from them.
> 
> Once the boat is at the dealership it'll be harder to get that second opinion.
> 
> One last comment - the fiberglass doesn't have the coloration I would expect from wetted out fiberglass. It looks too white to me, too fluffy around the edges. I have no expertise, but have done some repairs and seen damage on my boat. Yours just looks different.


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## bigfishtx (Jul 17, 2007)

Whitebassfisher said:


> I think he is referring to this. Good question...


You can see the scratches running above and below the crack, it hit something. That looks like a splinter or possibly a piece of wire.

I am wondering what brand Cat this is?


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## FLAT FISHY (Jun 22, 2006)

I would say impact just because of the scuff marks and scratches in the area around the rips.


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## DIHLON (Nov 15, 2009)

Just put some duct tape over it and go fishing!



Disclaimer: This is a joke. Please do not do as mentioned above.



To the OP, sorry about your bad luck. Hope you get it resolved soon and get back on the water.


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## TXFishin (Apr 26, 2010)

Outearly said:


> To the OP - If I were in your shoes, I would take it to a third party first - Evans? - and have them just look at it, get good pictures, and get an opinion from them.
> 
> Once the boat is at the dealership it'll be harder to get that second opinion.
> 
> One last comment - the fiberglass doesn't have the coloration I would expect from wetted out fiberglass. It looks too white to me, too fluffy around the edges. I have no expertise, but have done some repairs and seen damage on my boat. Yours just looks different.


It does look dry-ish, not normal looking from what I'm used to

Relentless


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## bigfishtx (Jul 17, 2007)

DIHLON said:


> Just put some duct tape over it and go fishing!
> 
> Disclaimer: This is a joke. Please do not do as mentioned above.
> 
> To the OP, sorry about your bad luck. Hope you get it resolved soon and get back on the water.


Flex Tape. That stuff fixes anything, I saw it on TV.


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## ManualReel (Jun 12, 2017)

Wow, Wow, l can only say thats why l carry a top shelve insurance covrage, if it's a manufacture problem or from navagation, they our your friends and this is why you have insurance


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## Snaggletoothfrecklefish (Jul 11, 2016)

I don't see the scratches to make me think it was from impact. That looks like some kind of grass of something sticking out to me. Either way, it's not good and am interested as to what happened.

I guarantee if something was hit hard enough to do that the OP would have for sure felt it.


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## BigJake (Jul 1, 2004)

I can't tell from the pictures really, is this a cat hull?


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## rmiller4292 (Oct 17, 2009)

EvansMarine said:


> First thing I would get my Surveyor involved if it was here, Gordon would document and get to bottom of the issue and provide paper work that is certified to Insurance and or Hull Company that would be beneficial to the customer. Just getting this out here, not all companies are used to dealing with Surveyors and Insurance Adjusters. There is a lot of things going on right there that need someone that does this and will fight for you. We have been thru many claims like this and you need a company that knows the ins and out I guarantee.


This is the advice you need to listen to right here. He knows what he's talking about.

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## bwguardian (Aug 30, 2005)

I don't think what's sticking out is grass...looks more like a strand of fiberglass.


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## kenn22 (Jul 2, 2009)

Is this another Recon??


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## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

> I don't see the scratches to make me think it was from impact.


Seriously? You don't see the chips and **** near the cracks in the last picture?

TH


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## Bocephus (May 30, 2008)

It hit something pretty hard to do that kind of damage.

I don't see how the driver wouldn't know they hit something ? That's not from just bumping something unknowingly. That's from an impact at planing speed at least.


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## TOM WEBER (Aug 14, 2005)

Had an old Mako that did that. Found out the original owner flew boat off a wave offshore. Broke a stringer. Can't imagine a 10 hour boat did that. My bet is that is a Layup fail with the stringers leading to hull flex. No way you could hit something that hard and not know it. Agree with Evans. Hire an independent surveyor.


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## brian_t86 (May 24, 2017)

TOM WEBER said:


> Had an old Mako that did that. Found out the original owner flew boat off a wave offshore. Broke a stringer. Can't imagine a 10 hour boat did that. My bet is that is a Layup fail with the stringers leading to hull flex. No way you could hit something that hard and not know it. Agree with Evans. Hire an independent surveyor.


I've been reading about hull flex and wondering if that could be the culprit. Thanks for the input.

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## Ripin' Lips (Jul 3, 2012)

Its hard to tell from the pics but it looks like the fiberglass mat/cloth wasn't laid properly. Ive seen plenty of pictures of restorations and none of the pics of the fiberglass mat/cloth look like the pics you provided. here's a pic for reference


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## Chase4556 (Aug 26, 2008)

Bocephus said:


> It hit something pretty hard to do that kind of damage.
> 
> I don't see how the driver wouldn't know they hit something ? That's not from just bumping something unknowingly. That's from an impact at planing speed at least.


I'd think if you hit something to do that much damage, there would be more visable signs on the exterior. There are no large gouges that I can see, or missing gelcoat. I've seen a few rental boats at our MWR that people hit pilings and other stuff with.... you can EASILY tell that something impacted it from the exterior and caused the damage. Those pictures lead me to the believe the cracks are a result from interior failures. If that makes sense.


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## Bocephus (May 30, 2008)

Chase4556 said:


> I'd think if you hit something to do that much damage, there would be more visable signs on the exterior. There are no large gouges that I can see, or missing gelcoat. I've seen a few rental boats at our MWR that people hit pilings and other stuff with.... you can EASILY tell that something impacted it from the exterior and caused the damage. Those pictures lead me to the believe the cracks are a result from interior failures. If that makes sense.


My thought is running along and hitting a shallow sand bar, or the bank.

No gouges, or excessive scrapes. But enough of a blow to damage a hull ?


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## Ripin' Lips (Jul 3, 2012)

Bocephus said:


> My thought is running along and hitting a shallow sand bar, or the bank.
> 
> No gouges, or excessive scrapes. But enough of a blow to damage a hull ?


Or oyster? What is confusing is the split in the mat/cloth in pic #3 and in pic #2 that cloth is still intact. I've never seen a failed hull from stress due to poor quality of stingers/glass etc but I can tell you that the cloth in pic #3 was sliced with something sharp. If it was a tensile/yield failure there would be frayed edges and not a "clean" slice.


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## dk2429 (Mar 27, 2015)

Bocephus said:


> My thought is running along and hitting a shallow sand bar, or the bank.
> 
> No gouges, or excessive scrapes. But enough of a blow to damage a hull ?


I don't know.. Hit Mud Cut going 40mph and didn't even put a knick in the hull.


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## kneekap (Nov 13, 2012)

Looks to me like that boat has been dropped because I don't see gouges.
Good luck getting it resolved.


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## Bocephus (May 30, 2008)

dk2429 said:


> I don't know.. Hit Mud Cut going 40mph and didn't even put a knick in the hull.


I don't know if I'd call that hitting something, or just running out of water.

And yes, I've done that too...


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## acoastalbender (Jul 16, 2011)

A few months ago someone was selling a fairly new SCB looking boat (hull only) in 2cool classifieds with hull damage just about where the damage here is in question ... could someone have bought that hull, done a 'quicky fill job and paint and sold it to the op ... 

.


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## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

> A few months ago someone was selling a fairly new SCB looking boat (hull only) in 2cool classifieds with hull damage just about where the damage here is in question ... could someone have bought that hull, done a 'quicky fill job and paint and sold it to the op ...


No sir.

TH


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## acoastalbender (Jul 16, 2011)

Trouthunter said:


> No sir.
> 
> TH


why do you say that ... ?
.


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## brian_t86 (May 24, 2017)

Ripin' Lips said:


> Or oyster? What is confusing is the split in the mat/cloth in pic #3 and in pic #2 that cloth is still intact. I've never seen a failed hull from stress due to poor quality of stingers/glass etc but I can tell you that the cloth in pic #3 was sliced with something sharp. If it was a tensile/yield failure there would be frayed edges and not a "clean" slice.


The split is still there in pic #2, just hard to see from that angle. The whole reason I took pic #3 was so you can clearly see the split in the fiberglass.

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## BATWING (May 9, 2008)

WOW! It almost looks like the entire boat was dropped from a fork lift.


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## Ripin' Lips (Jul 3, 2012)

acoastalbender said:


> why do you say that ... ?
> .


I don't think this boat is an SCB recon


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## Ripin' Lips (Jul 3, 2012)

brian_t86 said:


> The split is still there in pic #2, just hard to see from that angle. The whole reason I took pic #3 was so you can clearly see the split in the fiberglass.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes, I know. I was referencing the 3rd pic for the best detail and the 2nd pic bc you can clearly see one crack with sliced cloth and one crack without sliced cloth. I'm willing to bet you slid over something (rebar, oyster, nail) which is why you don't see more impact related damage. If you ran over something just underneath the surface I would expect the damage to look similar to what was provided. I'll put my money where my mouth is and say with out a doubt, your boat was not dropped.


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## acoastalbender (Jul 16, 2011)

Ripin' Lips said:


> I don't think this boat is an SCB recon


meh ... no harm in trying to flush out a little info ...

.


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## saltaholic (Feb 19, 2005)

Any chance someone backed into it while on trailer? Receiver hitch damage?


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## Scott M (Jun 6, 2017)

I was thinking maybe while tied off to pier or bulkhead or something boat traffic or wave causing the top edge of the boat to hit the structure and causing the crack and then maybe it propagated while in motion later not knowing it had formed and it had complete failure from flexing and weakness while riding. But thats just my crack at it no pun intended... Im just trying to think of innocent ways in which something could happen to cause such failure without even knowing it or being around the boat when it happened.


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## bigfishtx (Jul 17, 2007)

Pretty sure this is a cat hull and that damage is on the inside of one of the hulls.


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## RRbohemian (Dec 20, 2009)

My boat had those same crack lines (not as wide) and was due to stringers coming apart. I had tons of water in the hull. Almost lost my boat but was fortunate to get it in to the dock before losing it. Was a few thousands to have fixed.


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## Quackerbox (Feb 6, 2006)

Wow!

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## brian_t86 (May 24, 2017)

Just as a disclaimer: My boat is not an SCB.

Thanks to those of you that have written me offering advice and asking if it is.


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## Sea-r-cy (Sep 27, 2013)

Looks like major hull flex to me. Dang, that gel coat is thick, maybe 1/8" or thicker? 

Here's what my Twin Vee looked like when it broke. I'd put over 10,000 rough miles on it though. The breaks do look similar.


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## CAPSIZED (Aug 10, 2004)

Looks like a Cat hull Ive seen lots of cracks in cat hulls from flexing but most were in between the two hulls. Id be worried that if you fixed the cracks you havent fixed the problem that caused them


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## gman1772 (Jul 15, 2012)

dk2429 said:


> I don't know.. Hit Mud Cut going 40mph and didn't even put a knick in the hull.


Now that's what I consider stuck.

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## fishinguy (Aug 5, 2004)

dk2429 said:


> I don't know.. Hit Mud Cut going 40mph and didn't even put a knick in the hull.


Sometimes I kinda miss fishing over there then a see a pic like this and remember why I spend more time in East bay now. LOL.


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## dk2429 (Mar 27, 2015)

gman1772 said:


> Now that's what I consider stuck.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well you considered right my friend.

Stuck enough to get pulled off by an airboat a 9 o'clock at night :biggrin:


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## dk2429 (Mar 27, 2015)

fishinguy said:


> Sometimes I kinda miss fishing over there then a see a pic like this and remember why I spend more time in East bay now. LOL.


:rotfl::rotfl:


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## BigGulf (Dec 31, 2015)

blackjack runner said:


> Hard to tell from pics, but don't see either scratches or any evident signs of impact that would justify this damage.
> Disclosure:I am not a fiberglass specialist nor a marine surveyor, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last week.


Lmao!!!
Yes I don't see the scratches either.


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## Mako232 (Sep 16, 2005)

Any update from the original poster on the cause of the cracks?


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## Scott M (Jun 6, 2017)

Mako232 said:


> Any update from the original poster on the cause of the cracks?


Yes I am with you, Any updates?


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## brian_t86 (May 24, 2017)

So for anyone still wondering, I got my boat back last Friday. John at Sport Marine said this boat (JH Outlaw 185) was originally designed with a 115 in mind and the added weight and power from 150's being added have caused some to crack. Sport Marine fixed it under warranty and the repairs look good. Gel coat matches and I can't tell where they pulled the deck up. Took it out last weekend and crossed Aransas bay with pretty decent chop.

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## dirtdobber (Jun 23, 2009)

Thanks for the update glad everything worked out.


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## Get'er Wet (Aug 25, 2016)

Nice EGA!


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## CoreyB (Jan 28, 2017)

Good job Sport Marine. Nice looking boat. 

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## DIHLON (Nov 15, 2009)

I'm glad they made it right. Nice rig!


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## Shallow80 (Mar 18, 2006)

Looks to me like damage from trailering. How do you haul it? Straps, motor position, and that bunk doesn't look to be out to the edge of tunnel. Look how it is opened up like it's got a lot of pressure on it. If it was an impact or even lamination issues i wouldn't expect it to spread open like that resting on the trailer if the trailer was set up right.


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## jmbapp (Aug 28, 2015)

Note to self....will not buy JH if plan on re powering to higher HP cus hull will fail.

Jason


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## Stuart (May 21, 2004)

Glad they got you back on the water. That is what it is all about.

The rest, I'm not so sure. If it is rated for a 150 ........ then .........

And those cracks were so far away from the stern I don't see what weight had to do with it. They probably just didn't get the mat rolled out good in those areas and the gel coat looks crazy thick to me. Gel coat is the first thing to crack because it doesn't flex as much as the underlying mat, especially if they sprayed it on too thick.


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## ibtbone (Oct 7, 2013)

so, what is going to keep it from happening again? just wondering

nice rig


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## texasstyle (Aug 22, 2012)

So a motor that weighs less than 100 pounds more than the one they planned on putting on this rig caused this much damage? I'm no boat builder but i find that hard to believe. And then they still rated it for the 150? Something doesn't add up...


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## Shallow80 (Mar 18, 2006)

I blew those pics up and looks like there are scuff marks and that may be some carpet from the bunk stuck in there. Look at the reflections of light of first and second pic and there is a break in the reflections in a few areas that appear to be scuff marks where the light breaks and gel looks dull, could also just be shadows. Maybe you caught a bunk board coming on or off the trailer. The gel coat looks thick but not crazy thick. I would check the bunk that runs along side all the way down.


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## Stuart (May 21, 2004)

Most manufacturers recommend their gel coat be around .01" - .02". A dime is .04" thick for comparison.


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## Shallow80 (Mar 18, 2006)

texasstyle said:


> So a motor that weighs less than 100 pounds more than the one they planned on putting on this rig caused this much damage? I'm no boat builder but i find that hard to believe. And then they still rated it for the 150? Something doesn't add up...


it's not the weight so much as the extra force from more horsepower that affects ratings.


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## texasstyle (Aug 22, 2012)

Shallow80 said:


> it's not the weight so much as the extra force from more horsepower that affects ratings.


Either way it was rated for it right? And a few more ftlbs in torque cracked the front of the sponsons? Just never seen or heard of anything like that happening


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## Shallow80 (Mar 18, 2006)

texasstyle said:


> Either way it was rated for it right? And a few more ftlbs in torque cracked the front of the sponsons? Just never seen or heard of anything like that happening


It must be rated for the 150 to be able to sell them but the guy said it was built with a 115 in mind. I'm not saying the motor caused this damage just the reasoning behind the purpose for the rating People always look at the weight and not the horsepower causing problems when horsepower is what usually damages the hull and the weight damages the transome. I just got done repairing a 13 skooter that was cracked up front because the guy has a 50 on a 35 rated hull.


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## Stuart (May 21, 2004)

I'm not buying any of the correlation to motor weight and/or power. The layup on this hull should be the same whether it is rated for a 100, 150 or even 200. A properly laid up laminate with bracing and extra mat in the RIGHT places (look at the Stingray vs Recon) is dang near bullet proof. Something was wrong with the laminate on this hull and they took care of it which is what counts.


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## Shallow80 (Mar 18, 2006)

Stuart said:


> I'm not buying any of the correlation to motor weight and/or power. The layup on this hull should be the same whether it is rated for a 100, 150 or even 200. A properly laid up laminate with bracing and extra mat in the RIGHT places (look at the Stingray vs Recon) is dang near bullet proof. Something was wrong with the laminate on this hull and they took care of it which is what counts.


Would you drop a 350 in a honda civic and feel the same?


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## Stuart (May 21, 2004)

Shallow80 said:


> Would you drop a 350 in a honda civic and feel the same?


I don't know. Would you drop quad 350s, around 3000 pounds, on a Yellowfin like a guy I know has? Do you think his hull is 9 inches thick?


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## RUFcaptain (Aug 12, 2011)

Stuart said:


> I'm not buying any of the correlation to motor weight and/or power. The layup on this hull should be the same whether it is rated for a 100, 150 or even 200. A properly laid up laminate with bracing and extra mat in the RIGHT places (look at the Stingray vs Recon) is dang near bullet proof. Something was wrong with the laminate on this hull and they took care of it which is what counts.


I'm with you on this, I can't see why a slightly heavier more powerful motor would cause this much damage. The weight difference and torque can't be that far apart, and I doubt any hull is so delicate. Glad they fixed it for you, thats the important thing.


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## lurker (Feb 26, 2015)

Shallow80 said:


> It must be rated for the 150 to be able to sell them but the guy said it was built with a 115 in mind. I'm not saying the motor caused this damage just the reasoning behind the purpose for the rating People always look at the weight and not the horsepower causing problems when horsepower is what usually damages the hull and the weight damages the transome. I just got done repairing a 13 skooter that was cracked up front because the guy has a 50 on a 35 rated hull.


Can you explain how HP damages a hull?

Did you mean speed? Guessing that 13 skooter was ~3mph faster with the 50 versus the 35. Are you suggesting that boat was designed to within that small of an envelope?


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## texasstyle (Aug 22, 2012)

lurker said:


> Can you explain how HP damages a hull?
> 
> Did you mean speed? Guessing that 13 skooter was ~3mph faster with the 50 versus the 35. Are you suggesting that boat was designed to within that small of an envelope?


exactly what i was thinking. the torque/weight would be an issue way before the speed will. You see boats all the time overpowered and running way faster than they were intended and ive never seen the bow come apart. espically in this case where the 2 motors mentioned are almost identical.


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## loco4fishn (May 17, 2010)

Guess I will have to re think hanging that 250hp on my 18' Kenner that's rated for 90hp. Dang!


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## dk2429 (Mar 27, 2015)

loco4fishn said:


> Guess I will have to re think hanging that 250hp on my 18' Kenner that's rated for 90hp. Dang!


:spineyes:


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## LaddH (Sep 29, 2011)

loco4fishn said:


> Guess I will have to re think hanging that 250hp on my 18' Kenner that's rated for 90hp. Dang!


No Problem on my Kenner.


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## Shallow80 (Mar 18, 2006)

RUFcaptain said:


> I'm with you on this, I can't see why a slightly heavier more powerful motor would cause this much damage. The weight difference and torque can't be that far apart, and I doubt any hull is so delicate. Glad they fixed it for you, thats the important thing.


Lets say you come in on your trailer crooked and you hang a bunk sideways in your cat tunnel. The extra weight applies extra force on impact and then you use your extra horsepower you're so proud of and guess what you have just pushed your hull past it's limit. There is a big difference in the lay up between different horsepower rated boats as far as how many layers and type of fiberglass used. Keep breaking em guys it's good for business.


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## Shallow80 (Mar 18, 2006)

Stuart said:


> I'm not buying any of the correlation to motor weight and/or power. The layup on this hull should be the same whether it is rated for a 100, 150 or even 200. A properly laid up laminate with bracing and extra mat in the RIGHT places (look at the Stingray vs Recon) is dang near bullet proof. Something was wrong with the laminate on this hull and they took care of it which is what counts.


The lay up is extremely different and fiberglass mat is not what gives a hull strength. Woven roven and biaxel weave are what gives a hull it's strength.


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## texasstyle (Aug 22, 2012)

Shallow80 said:


> Lets say you come in on your trailer crooked and you hang a bunk sideways in your cat tunnel. The extra weight applies extra force on impact and then you use your extra horsepower you're so proud of and guess what you have just pushed your hull past it's limit. There is a big difference in the lay up between different horsepower rated boats as far as how many layers and type of fiberglass used. Keep breaking em guys it's good for business.


if the scenario you described tears the hull apart it was a junk boat to begin with. Ive seen cat boats jump levees, dams, reefs you name it. But pushing too hard on a bunk destroys it? How is it expected to handle waves? If you are talking about a boat rated for a 50 but has a 250 hangin off it then i would agree. But a 115 to a 150 no way.


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## Stuart (May 21, 2004)

texasstyle said:


> if the scenario you described tears the hull apart it was a junk boat to begin with. Ive seen cat boats jump levees, dams, reefs you name it. But pushing too hard on a bunk destroys it? How is it expected to handle waves? If you are talking about a boat rated for a 50 but has a 250 hangin off it then i would agree. But a 115 to a 150 no way.


Exactly.


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## DIHLON (Nov 15, 2009)

Stuart said:


> Exactly.


X3. I'm pretty sure I have never utilized all 200 HP to get my boat on the trailer.


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## 5151 (Feb 14, 2013)

The OP mentioned somewhere in here that the 150 had caused other 185 models to crack as well. Anyone have any further detail on the others? 

Not stirring up the pot but was looking at this model boat as a possibility down the road. But maybe not.


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## cottonpicker (Jan 25, 2010)

The issue has been addressed in newer hulls.


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## Shallow80 (Mar 18, 2006)

texasstyle said:


> if the scenario you described tears the hull apart it was a junk boat to begin with. Ive seen cat boats jump levees, dams, reefs you name it. But pushing too hard on a bunk destroys it? How is it expected to handle waves? If you are talking about a boat rated for a 50 but has a 250 hangin off it then i would agree. But a 115 to a 150 no way.


Ok so I rolled up my pant legs to wade through this and give it one last shot. I don't know where and who you fish with and how many bui's are involved but would love to come and watch the show someday. If that boat caught that bunk sideways and the boat torqued on it it will damage the hull rather easily and 115 or 150 or 90 even would do. You are right that from 115 to 150 should not be an issue but we are talking about leveraged force on a small area verses jumping cars or reefs where load is distributed over large area of the hull. Tell you what if you are so confident in your theories take a bottle jack and put it in the middle of the largest flat spot in your hull and lift it off the trailer using only that little 2" piece of steel. Now that's bottle jack not bottle of jack lol.


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## texasstyle (Aug 22, 2012)

Shallow80 said:


> Ok so I rolled up my pant legs to wade through this and give it one last shot. I don't know where and who you fish with and how many bui's are involved but would love to come and watch the show someday. If that boat caught that bunk sideways and the boat torqued on it it will damage the hull rather easily and 115 or 150 or 90 even would do. You are right that from 115 to 150 should not be an issue but we are talking about leveraged force on a small area verses jumping cars or reefs where load is distributed over large area of the hull. Tell you what if you are so confident in your theories take a bottle jack and put it in the middle of the largest flat spot in your hull and lift it off the trailer using only that little 2" piece of steel. Now that's bottle jack not bottle of jack lol.


First off i do not participate in nor condone drinking and driving. But i do have countless hours running unknown waters in boats and sometimes situations call for things that are not planned. I have never been worried because i know how strong a PROPERLY manufactured boat really is. I'm not sure what kind of boats you are used to running but everyone I've ever ran could care less if you catch a bunk sideways. Even my SCB held together LOL! However I would like to know of some examples to share with my friends so they know not to buy them. If they cant handle a bunk they wont be able to run the bay when it gets nasty. Not saying a freak accident has never happened to one but I've never seen it. And comparing a carpeted wooden bunk to a 2'' diameter jack? Apples to oranges i would say. My whole point about this issue is that whatever person said the 150 caused this is I believe misleading the customer. A later post says that there was a problem that is now fixed. They recognized a problem and corrected it. Thats how builders are supposed to do it good job JH!


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## TXFishin (Apr 26, 2010)

Trying to popcorn this thread, but it's not working lol

Hanging a bunk crooked while loading your boat on the trailer should not cause any damage, comparing that to jacking your boat up off the trailer on dry land is completely different. When the boat is in the water you still have lift from the water, most of the weight is in the back and should still be floating, the 'full' weight of the boat is not resting on the bunks until it's aligned straight and you pull your rig out, unless your trying to load the boat like a roller trailer or forcing it on with the entire trailer out of the water then that's a whole other topic lol there is a difference between "drive-on" and "float-on" trailers

Relentless


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## Shallow80 (Mar 18, 2006)

TXFishin said:


> Trying to popcorn this thread, but it's not working lol
> 
> Hanging a bunk crooked while loading your boat on the trailer should not cause any damage, comparing that to jacking your boat up off the trailer on dry land is completely different. When the boat is in the water you still have lift from the water, most of the weight is in the back and should still be floating, the 'full' weight of the boat is not resting on the bunks until it's aligned straight and you pull your rig out, unless your trying to load the boat like a roller trailer or forcing it on with the entire trailer out of the water then that's a whole other topic lol there is a difference between "drive-on" and "float-on" trailers
> 
> Relentless


Ok so if you come on the trailer crooked and the board gets caught up sideways then the tail of the boat swings to the side you have created a leveraged pressure point and water actually works against you and creates more force be it a wave or propulsion from the motor or current. A board in there sideways using one side of hull as a fulcrum will created tremendous pressure against that hull. Best thing i can give short of an instructional video.


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## TXFishin (Apr 26, 2010)

Shallow80 said:


> Ok so if you come on the trailer crooked and the board gets caught up sideways then the tail of the boat swings to the side you have created a leveraged pressure point and water actually works against you and creates more force be it a wave or propulsion from the motor or current. A board in there sideways using one side of hull as a fulcrum will created tremendous pressure against that hull. Best thing i can give short of an instructional video.


I agree with that scenario, but seems like that would take an awful lot of force and/or power, and would realize how crooked things are, etc...

I have had wind and current fight with me many times on hulls weighing over,7,000lbs, and aside from minor scuff marks which are easily buffed out, I can't imagine the approach speed, amount of power, or current that would cause that much damage to the hull unless they are really thin to help reduce weight or something? Either rate is still not an apples to apples comparison using a jack on the bottom of the hull on dry land as opposed to a boat floating on to the trailer

It definitely has given me food for thought on the stresses related to trailering that I have always taken for granted I guess

Relentless


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## steverino (Mar 8, 2006)

*Late*

I know I'm late and maybe I shouldn't give my opinion but here it is for what it's worth. From what I've seen and heard and my very limited experience with fiberglass construction and repair I believe the underlying problem is still there. The repair done is only cosmetic while the problem may be structural (bond and bond strength of the glass mats/cloth and gel coat, theory behind the glass layup process/procedure, etc.; once completed the hull should be and perform as a monolithic, flexible structure). Kind of like repairing termite damage. For the OP I hope the repair fixed the problem. Good luck.


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## 98aggie77566 (Jul 7, 2009)

DIHLON said:


> X3. I'm pretty sure I have never utilized all 200 HP to get my boat on the trailer.


Now that was funny!


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## Shallow80 (Mar 18, 2006)

TXFishin said:


> I agree with that scenario, but seems like that would take an awful lot of force and/or power, and would realize how crooked things are, etc...
> 
> I have had wind and current fight with me many times on hulls weighing over,7,000lbs, and aside from minor scuff marks which are easily buffed out, I can't imagine the approach speed, amount of power, or current that would cause that much damage to the hull unless they are really thin to help reduce weight or something? Either rate is still not an apples to apples comparison using a jack on the bottom of the hull on dry land as opposed to a boat floating on to the trailer
> 
> ...


It was a nice exchange talking with you and the scenarios are endless but I think we tend to forget the pressures and power surrounding us every day. Safe boating to you and yours!


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## BigGulf (Dec 31, 2015)

brian_t86 said:


> So for anyone still wondering, I got my boat back last Friday. John at Sport Marine said this boat (JH Outlaw 185) was originally designed with a 115 in mind and the added weight and power from 150's being added have caused some to crack. Sport Marine fixed it under warranty and the repairs look good. Gel coat matches and I can't tell where they pulled the deck up. Took it out last weekend and crossed Aransas bay with pretty decent chop.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Wow!!!! Good to know!!! 
I was thinking an outlaw for my next boat, well not anymore....sorry about your boat bud..


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## Jumanji (Jan 31, 2013)

Alman77 said:


> Wow!!!! Good to know!!!
> I was thinking an outlaw for my next boat, well not anymore....sorry about your boat bud..


Hmm, this is exactly why I did buy an Outlaw from Sport Marine. A boat builder that stands behind his product and makes it right. Not that long ago someone posted a letter from SCB attorney to owners notifying them of hull problems, and reminding them SCB was no longer an entity and therefore sorry owners had no recourse. And Shoalwater's had no issues? And have you looked at the gunnels and front decks on the Haynie cats? Yeah, I did a lot of research, and very happy with my Outlaw 23.

Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk


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## acf83 (Jul 16, 2016)

Jumanji said:


> Hmm, this is exactly why I did buy an Outlaw from Sport Marine. A boat builder that stands behind his product and makes it right. Not that long ago someone posted a letter from SCB attorney to owners notifying them of hull problems, and reminding them SCB was no longer an entity and therefore sorry owners had no recourse. And Shoalwater's had no issues? And have you looked at the gunnels and front decks on the Haynie cats? Yeah, I did a lot of research, and very happy with my Outlaw 23.
> 
> Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk


I see some issues with Haynie but the the Gunnels? And front decks? Please explain.


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## Jumanji (Jan 31, 2013)

acf83 said:


> I see some issues with Haynie but the the Gunnels? And front decks? Please explain.


First off, let me say that I wanted to buy a boat from Chris. He has a good reputation for service, and his dealership is practically in my backyard. There are Haynie boats everywhere in Port A. That said, I looked at several of his 23 ft cats and the gunnels were wavy, and on two boats there were creases or indentation across the front deck. The excuse was it was a hand laid boat or something, so hard to get straight, and it didn't affect performance. I don't completely understand the process. Another boat I saw looked so sloppy I wouldn't accept it, so I decided I didnt want to go thru the process of ordering a boat and get into a ******* match with Chris whether the finished product was good enough. I'm not the first one to post on this forum regarding aesthetic issues with Haynie.

I also have a friend with a new Outlaw that fishes alongside a Haynie 23 cat often. The Haynie cannot drift over a particular bar that he does. I also rode on each boat and the Haynie rides well but you can tell its a little heavier. Both the Haynie and the Outlaw turn nice and tight though, vs the Shoalwater more sliding.

Finally, the Outlaw priced out cheaper than the Haynie. John and Lindsey at Sport Marine were wonderful to work with during the boat build. I should have believed John when he said I didn't need trim tabs, because I have yet to use them. The only disappointment is that the depth transducer shooting thru hull is still inoperable at speed above 8 mph due to air bubbles between hull and water. And due to hull design a lot have problems with the stern mounted units working on plane as well.

Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk


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