# 2012 HARC Surveys: Start Time, Heat/Main Lengths, & SC Classes



## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

Please provide feedback on the following topics, and please remember to keep your statements neutral. What is discussed here is not necessarily what will be enacted as a ruling, so please don’t worry………this is just to get some feedback and narrow down the 

TOPIC #1: Start Time
Currently we are starting at 1:00PM. This past Summer was brutally hot and it really helped when we started later in the day to minimize our exposure to the heat. Additionally, I think people really appreciated the extra practice time they got during the day. Because we got started later, people were more apt to keep things rolling and not take their time about getting back on the track, so we really didn’t end that much later in the evening. So, please post which one of the following you would prefer:
-1:00 PM
-3:00 PM

TOPIC #2: Heat / Main Lengths
Currently we run 3 rounds of qualifiers with 5 minutes in each qualifier. We have seen some larger races go with 7 minute qualifiers lately. So the question is: in order to shorten the race day by 1 – 1.5 hours, would you prefer to go with 2 rounds of 7-minute qualifiers, with the mains being extended to make up for the run-time difference. This would shorten the day by 1 – 1.5 hours, but would reduce the number of chances at a good qualifying run. Or would you prefer to keep the current format? Or would you prefer 3 rounds of 7-minute qualifiers, with shorter mains? 


TOPIC #3: Expert and Sportsman Short Course Classes
Currently we run one Short Course Class. As we saw with E-Buggy, splitting into closer groups actually grew the number of participants in those classes. Now, it could have just been that the timing was right with the growth in E-Buggy interest in racing, or that splitting it really did encourage people that were at the middle to back of the pack, to actually be at the top of the pack in Sportsman, and newbies to continue racing because they did not get beaten so badly by Experts. And before the question gets asked, no it will not be 2wd vs. 4wd, mod vs. stock, etc……….neither myself or the tracks will be policing for “spec” classes of any sort. So, the question is: would you prefer to have SC split into sportsman and expert. 


Again, your comments must remain neutral or they will be deleted. Again, this is only a survey at this stage, and does not reflect the actual changes for 2012.


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## Jeremy Cupps (Oct 31, 2009)

I want to start at 6:30 am and race 10 minute qualifiers with hour long a mains! oh wait a minute im a race director, i take that back 3 minute qualifiers and 10 minute mains start time of.... never mind i dont know were i was going with this! 

Lets hear what the racers want?


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## kstoracing (Oct 30, 2008)

1PM, 3-7s, expert SC


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

3-7's means shorter mains........keep that in mind.


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## sfleuriet (Nov 12, 2008)

1pm, two 7-minute quals


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

Nitro guys.........can everyone easily make 7 minutes on a tank now-days?


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## Rcfishing (Jun 18, 2011)

I know i havent participate on harc yet but ill like to see the sc class split if posible, i think it would benefit the pros and newbies.


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## Jeremy Cupps (Oct 31, 2009)

CV most can make 7 easy these days! 

Start time is when ever you guys want, but the later we start the easier it is for me and Smiley to participate not that that is important, just wanted it out there.

I do think we need a sportsman sc class!and we should go by the national guidelines for SC!


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## tebone626 (Apr 25, 2010)

the only bad thing about going to the two 7 min mains, is the longer mains for electric isnt going to be good. we already run 13 mins in buggy, and its tough for some guys to make it that long. what about triple a mains for e buggy.


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## Jasoncb (Jun 25, 2010)

I don't care how the quals and mains are setup. They all sound ok to me, but there needs to be an expert SC class.


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## jasonwipf (Feb 23, 2009)

TOPIC #1: Start Time
I'm usually a 1pm fan so we can get out earlier and that has worked. But if we do the 2heat suggestion and save 1-1.5hrs then going back to 3pm would be nice cuz we could get more practice in and/or do brunch with the family before a race. Big help on the browny points.

TOPIC #2: Heat / Main Lengths
This is a great idea. If we had longer mains and still got 14min (2x7min) vs. 15min (3x5min) we could get more run time and less dead sitting around time. Whats 1min less qual time if we can get 5-15 more main time!

I know most of us see quals as practice and set up last chances before the main (including myself many times) but really they are called qualifier for a reason; to determine your main and position at full racing intensity, not to do practice/setup changes that should have been done in practice on your own time. When people say they want even more quals like 4+ that really means they don't have their cars ready for race day (thats practice, not qualifying).

For E-Buggy I want longer mains but 15-20min might be hard for alot of peeps to make on batteries. I'm game for Double A main 10min similar to RC PRO, best out of 2 counts. Heck almost all the classes could get longer mains if we kill an entire qual run. 20min Nitro Sportsman A? 30+min Nitro Pro A???

I know a bunch of the Nitro guys can get 9-11min on a full tank. Did you nitro guys have fuel problems during the RC PRO quals at 7min?

TOPIC #3: Expert and Sportsman Short Course Classes
Sportman's cool.


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## Labrat99 (May 6, 2009)

My preferences would be...

1) OVER 50 CLASS!!!

2) 1pm start.

3) two 7 min quals.

4) Sportsman & Expert SC.

5) Celine Dion opening each race day with a medley of hits!


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## hotrodchevy_77 (May 9, 2009)

I like the double a main idea at 10mins each for e buggy. 3-5 min quals. Start time does not matter to me.


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## tsl0238 (Apr 12, 2011)

hotrodchevy_77 said:


> I like the double a main idea at 10mins each for e buggy. 3-5 min quals. Start time does not matter to me.


+1


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## kstoracing (Oct 30, 2008)

2-7's isn't bad. It does seem like a good idea to split the E-buggy mains. Two 10 min mains or to 8min.


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## Mantisworx (Dec 30, 2010)

Jasoncb said:


> I don't care how the quals and mains are setup. They all sound ok to me, but there needs to be an expert SC class.


+1, but i do think having more qualifiers is better than less but longer due to the fact of breakage and such. having three chances to get a good run works better for all. 10 minutes is long enough for electric mains.


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## Z-Man. (Mar 20, 2011)

3 7 min qualifiers 
45 min nitro A-main sportsman
1 hour A-main expert
15 min electric main
Trugggy, 
Electric truggy
Expert, sportsman e buggy
Expert, sportsman buggy
Expert, sportsman short course
Beginner class.
Starting a 1 pm like usual.

That's my 2 cents on the idea...


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## BIGGELANG (Sep 13, 2011)

1 pm start time seems to work great

i like 7 min quals and a 10 min main

splity the sc for sure 

and we need to make the guide lines of each class be very well spelled out (ie battery size. bodies, wings etc )


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## Z-Man. (Mar 20, 2011)

BIGGELANG said:


> 1 pm start time seems to work great
> 
> i like 7 min quals and a 10 min main
> 
> ...


bodies, wings, and tires I dont think we should have rules against. Battery size i agree with though.


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## jam1227 (Nov 2, 2007)

I currently like the 3 5 min qualifiers. Just gives you a better chance to get one good qualifier in. 
As far as mains what ever is good, except the lower mains need to be a minimum of twice the length of the qualifier. 
And yes I think the sc should be split, this is the class that alot of newbs are coming into and I know that getting your but kicked all the time in something you are starting out in is not fun.


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## killerkustoms (Nov 6, 2008)

2 seven minute quals
longer mains and possibly an intermediate nitro


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## marcusch (Nov 16, 2010)

I say put the electric mains last so they can charge their batteries and Nitro can go home early sometimes hahaha.


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## team420! (Apr 30, 2010)

3 qualifiers
3PM start
split SC


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## fast1970 (Feb 21, 2010)

Courtney Vaughan said:


> Please provide feedback on the following topics, and please remember to keep your statements neutral. What is discussed here is not necessarily what will be enacted as a ruling, so please don


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## Tol Thomas (Feb 18, 2005)

May I, 

2 x 7 minute qualifiers with 6 classes and with 2 of the six with more than 12 entries equals approximately 1 hr 12 minutes each round or 2 hours 30 minutes total. approx 12 minutes per heat. 
3 x 5 minute qualifiers with same 6 classes with 2 of them with more than 12 entries would equal approximately 1 hour each round or 3 hours total. approx 10 minutes per heat.

Just remember the aprox time per heat, 2-3 minutes warm up, up to 3 minutes for starting and finishing a race then the actual race duration. 

Only real suggestion I have is to remember how hot i gets during summer and how cool it gets in the winter when setting start times. 1 pm in winter with the highs in the 50s is great but 1 pm start time in the summer when it hits 100+ is hurting.


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## Smiley (Feb 2, 2005)

With how the SC Class has grown in the past year, A Sportsman/Intermediate and Expert Class split needs to be done. Most of the time the fast guys cannot get a clean run in when half the heat is filled with beginners. I also thin the SC Class Main Lenght needs to be shortened. The Short Course Showdown Series and ROAR both do 7min. Mains. This would be much better all around on everybody's equiptment. You also would not have to have the best battery to get through the main. For example, Ryan Lutz this past weekend even had issues going the full 10min main. I would like to see it switch to 7 minutes.


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## mdwalsh (May 11, 2011)

Triple a mains for electrics, have electrics marshall electrics and nitros marshal nitros. 

7 min quals and mains for short course, 7 min quals for everything else

Split short course classes.... Short course rules limited to a body that covers the wheels and 2 cell maximum battery

Matt


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## BIGGELANG (Sep 13, 2011)

Z-Man. said:


> bodies, wings, and tires I dont think we should have rules against. Battery size i agree with though.


sorry i need to clarify.... wings and bodies in sc.... wings do not belong on a sc truck nor a car or "rally body' trucks only and 2s


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## Merdith (Sep 20, 2009)

*well*

For nitro

2 7 min heats 45min mains

Electric

who cares:rotfl:


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## kstoracing (Oct 30, 2008)

7 or 8just min mains on SC.


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## j-e (Jun 22, 2011)

1pm start.
2 x (7 min) quals.
longer mains.

i feel this would better prepare us for the bigger races. yes losing a potential one or two quals = no biggie, the longer mains more than makes up for it. on the point of staying focused longer, and transfering that to bigger races is an easier transition, rather than having quals. 

i was gonna say one class for sc, but smiley made a couple great points, one being that beginners slow the experts. i know i'm in the middle, and enjoyed runnin with the pros, but i'm not at that level yet. so my opinion's been swayed to... 

sc = intermediate/expert. possibley a beginners class as needed.

all other issues i'm nuetral on.


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## JANKEII (Feb 2, 2006)

Loooonger mains


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## DeanSpeed (Aug 20, 2007)

I'm good with either of the start times.

I like the idea of shorter mains, at least for e-buggy, because I run in the e-buggy class and several of us have a hard time making 13 minutes. Have you noticed that by the end of a 13 minute main, half (or more) or the cars have dumped? As far as length and number of quals, I don't mind either way because as long as I get to come out and play, it's all good.

Although I don't currently race SC, I believe the class should be split in to sportsman and expert for the reason's Courtney mentioned. I say this because I hear some of the "newbie" SC drivers talking and are they are getting discouraged. They don't feel they stand a chance because the "good" drivers leave them in the dust. It's only fair to give newbies a chance to get their skills up without being discouraged. After all we want to keep newbies, not scare them away. However the race officials (Courtney, Jeremy and whoever else???) running races might want to work up some guidelines amongst themselves as to who and when to bump somebody up or down as far as skill. For example, if you win "X" number of sportsman races AND can drive pretty good (not just got lucky) you bump up. Or if you're an expert always in the back and crashing in to everything including marshals, you may need to bump down.

Also, I very much agree with MDWALSH, to have electrics marshal electrics and nitros marshal nitros.

Just my $.02


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## clarktg (Nov 18, 2010)

#1 - 1pm start time (in summer 1pm 105 deg or 3pm 104 deg - still ridiculous hot!!!) enjoyed going out to eat those few times we finshed early enough
#2 - If qualifying remains rocket rd, then 2 - 7min qualifiers
#3 - Split SC to get better grouping for qualifying and mains


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## clarktg (Nov 18, 2010)

Would prefer to see electric mains equal nitro. Meaning if nitro running 20min Amain then electric runs dbl 10min Amains (tie breaker goes to higher qualifier). If nitro runs 30min Amain then electric runs triple 10min Amains. Oh...and electric corners electric and nitro corners nitro...

Confuscious say..."Those wanting longer nitro Amains usually in those Amains and not cornering those looooonger nitro mains"


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## clarktg (Nov 18, 2010)

Now on to the fun part "number crunching"....I suggest taking caution to any race change considerations and thinking through all possible scenarios how they may affect the currect HARC race day...
For example, if splitting SC into Expert/Sportsman creates just 1 more heat and main, with current rules you just added appox 44mins to race day.
Qualifiers = 30min (3min warmup + 1min start + 5min qual + 1min finish/scoring = 10min x 3 qual).
Main = 14 min (3min warmup + 10min main + 1 min finish/scoring).
Total - 30min + 14min = 44min

And if the overall SC entries would grow (which we hope they would) due to split, well might be double+.....just say'n.....has to be considered...


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

Seems like (2) 7 minute qualifiers is the direction most want to go.

I'm interested in what I'm hearing on SC though.....you guys really want 7 minute mains too? I was thinking 10 minute A-Main for Sportsman, and Double 10 Minute A-Mains for Expert. Thinking the same exact thing for Sportsman and Expert E-Buggy.

Thoughts?


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## tebone626 (Apr 25, 2010)

i like the the idea of double 10 min mains for all the electric. including s/c. there are plenty of cheap batteries that will make 10 mins in s/c. some guys may have to back down on there power to make the full 10.


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## kstoracing (Oct 30, 2008)

Double 10s sound good. I just have to get two large capacity batteries.


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

Large capacity for 10 minutes? 

4000-4400mah should make 10 minutes plus 1 minute of warmup in an SC. 

And in E-Buggy, I can do 17+ minutes in the blazing heat with a 5000mah pack.........normally after a 13 minute main I put back in about 3000-3500mah into my packs.

That's been my experience.........but then again maybe I'm just good with my mileage.


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## mdwalsh (May 11, 2011)

Courtney Vaughan said:


> Seems like (2) 7 minute qualifiers is the direction most want to go.
> 
> I'm interested in what I'm hearing on SC though.....you guys really want 7 minute mains too? I was thinking 10 minute A-Main for Sportsman, and Double 10 Minute A-Mains for Expert. Thinking the same exact thing for Sportsman and Expert E-Buggy.
> 
> Thoughts?


I like the double a main for electrics, I can do 10 min np with 5300 packs. I understand where smiley is coming from though how most big sactioning bodies have switched to 7 min, personally it doesn't matter as long as the double a mains are kept! And that electrics marshall electrics!

Matt


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## Mantisworx (Dec 30, 2010)

+1, how would a tie breaker work? laptime?


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

Just like Motorcross.........tie breaker goes to the best finish in the 2nd main.


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## darrenwilliams (Apr 21, 2008)

Electric marshaling electric will not work 100%. First electric race will have to be marshalled by nitro. I have toyed with the idea of having the double A mains run back to back. Run first 10 minutes, hold the Marshall's, do a battery change and run 2nd a


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## mdwalsh (May 11, 2011)

darrenwilliams said:


> Electric marshaling electric will not work 100%. First electric race will have to be marshalled by nitro. I have toyed with the idea of having the double A mains run back to back. Run first 10 minutes, hold the Marshall's, do a battery change and run 2nd a


Qualifying marshalling wouldn't change, everyone is running the same time quals, but in the mains you could start it off with sportsman e buggy, have experts marshall them and vice versa, same things with short course. Then in the mains the nitro guys would be marshalling each other.


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

I think there is definitely a plan of action that is similar to what you guys are discussing each time the mains are setup at each track, but there are a ton of variables that make it different each time. You can expect that 1-2 classes of A-Mains will kind of end up getting the short end of the stick when it comes to being marshalled.........that's just the way it is. Setting up the mains is something that each track does, and aside from the length of the mains, is not going to be governed by HARC. The only way to do it the same every time is to have the same person run all of the races.........and that's not going to happen, because we're ALL racers around here! Even the race directors. 

Point is, be flexible when it comes to your race being marshalled, and expect that it may not be the perfect group, or the perfect number of marshals. And if it is, then consider yourself in the lucky group of racers that day.


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## tebone626 (Apr 25, 2010)

how about splitting up the truggy class. eletric, and nitro.


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## Courtney Vaughan (Apr 11, 2007)

Definitely been thinking about it. I'm struggling with Truggy at the moment. If you average it out, we've averaged barely 12 truggy entries per race, and we're losing 2 truggy racers that are pretty much at every race next year.

I'm torn between doing like we did with E-Buggy last year and having a trial period for the first 3-4 races with split electric / nitro classes. But at the same time, I have hesitation about adding yet another 15 minute nitro main, plus another 20 minutes worth of electric mains, plus possible B-mains for both. You're talking about adding another hour to the raceday possibly, and 3 out of 4 of our tracks are struggling with noise ordinances in the evening as it is. 

If I split the truggy into electric and nitro, would BOTH the nitro AND electric guys be willing to cut their A-mains down to 10 minutes? That would help with the time constraints......


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## tebone626 (Apr 25, 2010)

just a suggestion.


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## jasonwipf (Feb 23, 2009)

killerkustoms said:


> possibly an intermediate nitro


Says the sandbagger who doesn't want to go to Expert!



Smiley said:


> The Short Course Showdown Series and ROAR both do 7min. Mains. This would be much better all around on everybody's equiptment. You also would not have to have the best battery to get through the main. For example, Ryan Lutz this past weekend even had issues going the full 10min main. I would like to see it switch to 7 minutes.


I bearly make 10min with 1min warm up and 30sec to finish my lap with my 5300, I put 4700-5200 back in (avg. 480mah/min) so I'm open to that but maybe 8 if we did go down. 8-10min in SC is good for me. Lutz was running 3300mah packs btw.



clarktg said:


> Would prefer to see electric mains equal nitro. Meaning if nitro running 20min Amain then electric runs dbl 10min Amains (tie breaker goes to higher qualifier). If nitro runs 30min Amain then electric runs triple 10min Amains.


I just don't want to marshall triple A mains. There are not enought classes for us to get short mains to marshall, we will likely marshal the Pro A buggy and that will be 30+ minutes under this new discussion. Nitro sportsman A or Truggy A should marshall them. Double A E buggy should marshall SC A, and Nitro Bs to be fair on the times.



Courtney Vaughan said:


> Definitely been thinking about it. I'm struggling with Truggy at the moment. If you average it out, we've averaged barely 12 truggy entries per race, and we're losing 2 truggy racers that are pretty much at every race next year.
> 
> I'm torn between doing like we did with E-Buggy last year and having a trial period for the first 3-4 races with split electric / nitro classes. But at the same time, I have hesitation about adding yet another 15 minute nitro main, plus another 20 minutes worth of electric mains, plus possible B-mains for both. You're talking about adding another hour to the raceday possibly, and 3 out of 4 of our tracks are struggling with noise ordinances in the evening as it is.
> 
> If I split the truggy into electric and nitro, would BOTH the nitro AND electric guys be willing to cut their A-mains down to 10 minutes? That would help with the time constraints......


Do we have enough to split truggy, like you said we only have about 12 on avg. When we spit E buggy we had 20-30. As it is, Me, willy and Ty aren't running truggy next year and we are usually regulars to the class.


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## tsl0238 (Apr 12, 2011)

I would like to see expert e-buggy and sportsman e-buggy get double a-mains


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## tebone626 (Apr 25, 2010)

double a mains would be great in e buggy and s/c


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## Whec716 (Apr 7, 2010)

Hi Everyone - new guy here.

Topic # 1:
3pm summer start
1pm winter start

Topic # 2:
No experience = No comment

Topic # 3:
I plan to run SC and I would definitely appreciate a sportsman and expert class

The big question is how do we police who races in what class (sportsman or expert)? Self identification?

What if a rookie is naturally talented and blows away the competition in sportsman - so much so that he would be doing very well in expert. Can he be forced up a class? Likewise, can under performing Experts be forced down? Perhaps we can identify where you race based on average laptime? If a Sportsman racer is x seconds better then the field he's pushed up a class or if an expert racer is x seconds off the pace he's pushed down?


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## tebone626 (Apr 25, 2010)

> "What if a rookie is naturally talented and blows away the competition in sportsman - so much so that he would be doing very well in expert. Can he be forced up a class? Likewise, can under performing Experts be forced down? Perhaps we can identify where you race based on average laptime? If a Sportsman racer is x seconds better then the field he's pushed up a class or if an expert racer is x seconds off the pace he's pushed down?"


that sounds like a good idea. there are a few sportsman that run on the same pace as the experts, and then again there are experts that run slow enough to be in sportsman. the bad thing about it, is moving peopl in the middle of the race season, while in the points race. could affect more than one racer, if that happens.


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## Whec716 (Apr 7, 2010)

tebone626 said:


> that sounds like a good idea. there are a few sportsman that run on the same pace as the experts, and then again there are experts that run slow enough to be in sportsman. the bad thing about it, is moving peopl in the middle of the race season, while in the points race. could affect more than one racer, if that happens.


hmmm . .. i wonder if we could create a chase for the cup type scenario?


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## jam1227 (Nov 2, 2007)

I'm kinda lost here....... If we are wanting to keep running a series, on a Saturday what is going on with the time constraints for the mains? The mains should be at-least 15 to 20 min. For the nitro and do double if not triple mains for the electric. If your worried about noise ordinances then you have an early start time. But to have an a main that is 3 minuets longer than your qualifying time to me is just a wast of a race. There is my .02


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## Merdith (Sep 20, 2009)

*haha*

Is the word electric Latin for Waaaaaaaaaa........


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## JustinK (Jan 17, 2009)

Whec716 said:


> Hi Everyone - new guy here.
> The big question is how do we police who races in what class (sportsman or expert)? Self identification?
> 
> What if a rookie is naturally talented and blows away the competition in sportsman - so much so that he would be doing very well in expert. Can he be forced up a class? Likewise, can under performing Experts be forced down? Perhaps we can identify where you race based on average laptime? If a Sportsman racer is x seconds better then the field he's pushed up a class or if an expert racer is x seconds off the pace he's pushed down?


Normally anyone new is in sportsman. Mid season some sportman begin to get very good and could be considered expert but because of points they are not required not moved up. But it was always pointed out that if you make the jump mid season you will start off strong in expert next season at the cost of your points this season. I believe it's always been considered top 3 of sportsman in any class move up to expert the next year. Not sure about the other way expert to sportsman.

If I ever take a 1+ year leave of absence from RC I bet you'd see me in sportsman class again.


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## CristianTabush (Apr 8, 2005)

Lutz was running 5300's- they were my batts, this is how I know


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## j-e (Jun 22, 2011)

in regards to the 7 min A main, i personally think it should be 10 mins. + double A mains for elec/sc.

i agree that certain sacrifices need to be made to meet this criteria, but, it's all part of the set up. i personally struggled to get my truck to run longer run times to finish 10 min mains, b/c i tried to keep a set up that had more power, all dumping or temping out. well, i had a choice to make... finish or go faster.

as for bumping down from expert to sportsman. one way to consider the possibility... once the three highest sportsman bump up, consider the following three + sportsman qual/main run times, if they're higher than bottom three + experts, then those experts could justifiably get bumped down. but, i can't imagine anyone running with experts all year to get worse... lol. if so, i guess they belong with the sportsman once again.


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## Jasoncb (Jun 25, 2010)

j-e said:


> in regards to the 7 min A main, i personally think it should be 10 mins.
> 
> i agree that certain sacrifices need to be made to meet this criteria, but, it's all part of the set up. i personally struggled to get my truck to run longer run times to finish 10 min mains, b/c i tried to keep a set up that had more power, all dumping or temping out. well, i had a choice to make... finish or go faster.


That's why you run double or triple a-mains. SC class needs to be 7min, that is what every major event is running, so should we. This will also help the new guys, they wont have to spend $150+ on a battery just to complete a main.


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## jasonwipf (Feb 23, 2009)

tebone626 said:


> that sounds like a good idea. there are a few sportsman that run on the same pace as the experts, and then again there are experts that run slow enough to be in sportsman. the bad thing about it, is moving peopl in the middle of the race season, while in the points race. could affect more than one racer, if that happens.


Ya, we need to get the last 2-3 races this year and look at peoples time to make sure they get in the right class. changes mid season on points is not a doable thing.



CristianTabush said:


> Lutz was running 5300's- they were my batts, this is how I know


Before he ran your 5300 he came to me with a pair of 3300s saying they kept dumping and he had trouble charging them, I tried to charge them for him but they were so low I kept getting voltage errors.


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## j-e (Jun 22, 2011)

Jasoncb said:


> That's why you run double or triple a-mains. SC class needs to be 7min, that is what every major event is running, so should we. This will also help the new guys, they wont have to spend $150+ on a battery just to complete a main.


yeah, i'm for the double or triple a mains (concerning elec), but, "my personal opinion" as the thread calls for...  is that of 10 min mains, beit double or triple. furthermore, i'm for a "progressive" double/triple a main. now, i know the average of the accumulated two/three mains is how the rc world runs things, but, if my opinion is expressed, then i'd prefer A mains as "progressive".

for example in a triple a main, if you start 8th, finish 3rd, then at the begining of race two, you begin 3rd, and depending where you finish, that's where you start the third race. i know of the agruement that the best two out of three, and if you break/DNF in one of the races, then it doesn't hurt you. well, even with the progressive triple mains, if you break in the first, you have two races to work your way up, if you break in the second, you have one race to get to the front, and if you break in the third, well you're outta luck, but consider this, if you break in a fourt-five minute a main with nitro, you're out!

with all due respect, these are just opinions... i don't consider them better or worse, just mine.  lol


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## Jasoncb (Jun 25, 2010)

I like the idea of a progressive mains. Kinda takes away from earning the TQ but would be really cool and different!


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## Smiley (Feb 2, 2005)

For SC, It needs to be Triple A Mains @ 7min. each. This is what 1/10 Electric have always done (Triple A Format). Just because a vehicle can run for 10+ Minutes does not mean thats how long they should run for. All the major events are now running 7 minute Triple A Mains for the SC Class. I believe we should keep in line with what other series/governing bodies are running.


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## jasonwipf (Feb 23, 2009)

I agree the progressive makes sense, but kills the notion for why we worked for position in quals.

I'm not a big spec class guy but i've been trolling a few forums where they talked about this being the next possible spec class:

http://www.axialracing.com/ftp/exo/index.html

By spec I mean TOTALLY stock aside from rec so you can use your regular controller. If mods were allowed it would get bastardized like most classes. This really is the true buggy class if you think about it.


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## jasonwipf (Feb 23, 2009)

Smiley said:


> For SC, It needs to be Triple A Mains @ 7min. each. This is what 1/10 Electric have always done (Triple A Format). Just because a vehicle can run for 10+ Minutes does not mean thats how long they should run for. All the major events are now running 7 minute Triple A Mains for the SC Class. I believe we should keep in line with what other series/governing bodies are running.


if we did AAA for SC, Ebuggy for sure would want AAA thats 6 races now. I agree about the 10min thing, 7 would be cool but not for 1 main, maybe a AA 8min each compromise? with one 8min for B or sportsman to keep things rolling along?


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## jasonwipf (Feb 23, 2009)

well second thought 2 class es with multiple A mains could get confusing and difficult to manage our 1st year trying in for HARC.


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## RMOSLEY (Apr 29, 2010)

I'm happy with having the HARC period, be there with whatever you guys decide!


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## Merdith (Sep 20, 2009)

*Yep*



RMOSLEY said:


> I'm happy with having the HARC period, be there with whatever you guys decide!


well said Ryan...


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## Tol Thomas (Feb 18, 2005)

JustinK said:


> If I ever take a 1+ year leave of absence from RC I bet you'd see me in sportsman class again.


Bad thing about the 1+ year out going back to sportsman, I have been all but out of RC for the past 2 years(onnly think of getting to race maybe 5 times and practice only two other times), and I highly doubt anyone would allow me to drop to sportsman to race. Just my view.


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## Gary (May 21, 2004)

Tol Thomas said:


> Bad thing about the 1+ year out going back to sportsman, I have been all but out of RC for the past 2 years(onnly think of getting to race maybe 5 times and practice only two other times), and I highly doubt anyone would allow me to drop to sportsman to race. Just my view.


You wouldn't run "Sporstman" if it was allowed. Prolly never did like Mod Bob.


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## j-e (Jun 22, 2011)

Smiley said:


> All the major events are now running 7 minute Triple A Mains for the SC Class. I believe we should keep in line with what other series/governing bodies are running.


ok, that makes sense, if all major events are 7 min mains, that's what we should practice, and have our racing formats at... for the most part. everything we do on a smaller level, should help us prepare for the houston boys doing well at the major events. 



Jasoncb said:


> I like the idea of a progressive mains. Kinda takes away from earning the TQ but would be really cool and different!


thanks, but i guess i'm seeing it as a regular nitro race, but, with mandatory all at once, pit stops at a minute mark, in a way... from my understanding a TQ, starts you up front in nitro's as well... it's up to the driver/driving to keep you up front.

my short term goal... in 2012 do what jason beam did this year. long term, get good enough to be competitive with the big dogs the following year, as well as be as knowledgeable and helpful to others... but mostly have fun along the way.


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## Tol Thomas (Feb 18, 2005)

Gary said:


> You wouldn't run "Sporstman" if it was allowed. Prolly never did like Mod Bob.


Gary, I think at RoadRunner Ballaire I ran two races in novice and then stock for the next 10-12 years then to mod and once there rarely ever stock. First race with a nitro truck, 1/10 scale 2wd was against people like frosty, mike bataille, and such along with first race with an 1/8 scale was against the same level again and never got a chance to learn, straight into the frying pan with the top dogs. Heck I didn't even know how to tune a nitro engine then, could tune an electric brushed motor to SCREAM but nothing nitro.

You are also right, I would never run sportsman, knowledge and experience would make it not too fun. That and I know once you get to a point, you will never get faster until you run with faster people.


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## YNOT3D (Feb 16, 2011)

Start time, don't care. Rather start at 11 at get done earlier in the day.

2 7 minute quails with longer mains. Leaving the track at 10-11 or later as night is tough. 

Split SC.

E truggy class????

For things like this, try surveymonkey.com


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## YNOT3D (Feb 16, 2011)

Another thought..........

How about doing it like full scale cars do it. Laps.

10 lap quals and 30 lap mains.

Top 4 out of each qualifier, transfer to the A main and so on.

The timed events was all based off of, how long the NiCad batteries would last, 4 minutes back in the day. 

I know it is not going to happen do to how other events are run, however just had to throw it out there.

I am also a fan of gate starts to always have racing going on, instead of the "on your own clock"


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## Whec716 (Apr 7, 2010)

I know Jason mentioned this, but what are the chances of a spec class - like the new axial buggy? http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa162/geerno/AxialExo-1.jpg


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## Merdith (Sep 20, 2009)

*Idea*

How about we have the electric races early in the day, heats and 5 mains and all, then the nitro has races later in the day.....


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## Whec716 (Apr 7, 2010)

Merdith said:


> How about we have the electric races early in the day, heats and 5 mains and all, then the nitro has races later in the day.....


Actually not a bad idea. Keeps the flow going, nasty nitro smell away for the e guys - and less crowded in the pits.


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## jasonwipf (Feb 23, 2009)

Whec716 said:


> I know Jason mentioned this, but what are the chances of a spec class - like the new axial buggy? http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa162/geerno/AxialExo-1.jpg


I would run this, but it would need to be purely spec. as in no Mods, RPM limit etc.


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## darrenwilliams (Apr 21, 2008)

Merdith said:


> How about we have the electric races early in the day, heats and 5 mains and all, then the nitro has races later in the day.....


You better pack a pitman because all the electric guys will be gone.


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## JANKEII (Feb 2, 2006)

Longer mains..


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