# Poaching and selling to the market



## brucevannguyen (Oct 21, 2012)

So I went to the market today not gonna name that market just yet. Found large hybrids with hook marks on the side of their mouth. My question is I've heard of hybrids being farm raise and netted and sold to the market with no hook marks,and most are usually around 2 or 3 pounds. Why am I seeing large hybrids like the one you catch on the lake lying in a refrigerated show case with hook marks on them. I will continue to monitor this market and if I continue to see what i'm seeing and have hard evidence,gonna report it to the game warden. Some people has the balls to go poach and sell game fish that belong to the public people.They must forget this is America.


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## dbullard (Feb 13, 2008)

I see Stripers , whites and live large mouth at Big Market , I would think the would be farm raised. I would think it would be hard to make a living catching and selling Hybreds but you never know.


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## brucevannguyen (Oct 21, 2012)

dbullard said:


> I see Stripers , whites and live large mouth at Big Market , I would think the would be farm raised. I would think it would be hard to make a living catching and selling Hybreds but you never know.


dbullard there's two type of people out there you've just haven't met.

1st type people is ones who has a serious addiction to fishing and catching fish.They go 3 times out of a week every week when the fish are thick/abundance.To help eleviated the cost of gas and expenses they sell all their catch to customers who knows them and buy on a regular base.Like neigbors,friends,co workers,relative etc...

2nd type is one who is dam good at catching fish.All types of fish.They meticulously learn how to catch each type of fish and when the the time is right and the fish are abundance they catch and sell for a living or as extra income.Do the math.At twenty large stripers or hybrids 10 bucks a fish that's 200 dollar tax free per day.At 2 dollar per white bass 100 fish that's 200 dollar tax free a day.And if you doubt such a person exist with such capability in catching that quantity fish.Think again.


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## dbullard (Feb 13, 2008)

You are right , you never know what greed will do to some people . I hope I never meet them. I am sure they are out there.


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## dbullard (Feb 13, 2008)

Bruce I tried to reply to ur private message but you got it set not to reveive.


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## johnmyjohn (Aug 6, 2006)

brucevannguyen said:


> dbullard there's two type of people out there you've just haven't met.
> 
> 1st type people is ones who has a serious addiction to fishing and catching fish.They go 3 times out of a week every week when the fish are thick/abundance.To help eleviated the cost of gas and expenses they sell all their catch to customers who knows them and buy on a regular base.Like neigbors,friends,co workers,relative etc...
> 
> 2nd type is one who is dam good at catching fish.All types of fish.They meticulously learn how to catch each type of fish and when the the time is right and the fish are abundance they catch and sell for a living or as extra income.Do the math.At twenty large stripers or hybrids 10 bucks a fish that's 200 dollar tax free per day.At 2 dollar per white bass 100 fish that's 200 dollar tax free a day.And if you doubt such a person exist with such capability in catching that quantity fish.Think again.


 ha! You just discribed a fishing guide, except they have the customers come to them and they have to catch them!í ½í¸‰ sorry guys, couldn't pass on the thought,,,,,, poaching is not good either.


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

The absolute worst I have seen has been poaching the hybrids at LnD during the spring run. 

There are some spots there (see avatar) where one can really catch the heck out of them...and unfortunately some guys really do and keep them all. 

They avoid (or at least attempt to avoid) prosecution by taking kids and non fishing family members with them to expand their limits...and then carry out the fish caught to runners at the bridge who remove them from the premises.

The thing that makes this so disgusting to me is that we don't have a lot of these great fish in the Livingston water shed and for just a few to poach them is really bad.


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## Spec-Rig.006 (Nov 2, 2007)

Call TPWD ...


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## Beaux (Oct 11, 2012)

I worked for a large hybrid striper farm in Danavang, TX back in 2002 when I was just a kid. We harvested thousands of pounds of fish a week and sold them to markets. To harvest that ammount of fish requires a team of people and several pieces of equipment including 2 tractors, a sein net on a reel, a jon boat, a boom truck with giant dip net, trucks with boxes to load the fish and of course crews to run equipment and work the nets.

On small orders we would catch them with rods and reels to save time and money. Imagine fishing in an pond, about an acre, square in size and 12-15 ft deep with hundreds of 3-5lb hybird stripper. It was pretty fun to say the least. Catch fish till your arms were burning. Fish on every cast, some times 2. Normally throw casting spoons, but for added fun, topwater action like you've never seen it before. So no, its not uncommon to see a few ripped lips on the fish at the counter.


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## waterspout (May 21, 2004)

Spec-Rig.006 said:


> Call TPWD ...


 It'd be better for them to monitor it, not sure what good it's going to do for the OP to monitor.

:headknock


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## FISHROADIE (Apr 2, 2010)

There is still poaching going on in the north end of the trinity river. They catch people with gill nets every year during the white bass run. Its not as bad as it was back in the day. They would haul simi truck loads down to the border and drive them back to the US. They would market them as Mexican white bass and then sell them to markets. 4 years ago I getting gas at a station one morning near Huntsville for my boat. A old guy came up and asked me if I was going white bass fishing. I told him yes, he proceeded to tell me how he had just been released from the county jail. He said he was in there for one week for drinking and having to much fun. He said the game wardens showed up with a pick up load of white bass, they had caught a couple of guys running gill net on Bedias creek. The sheriff made him and one other guy clean the whole truck load of white bass. He said it took all day and he never wanted to see another white bass as long as he lived. Back in the 1960s and 1970s there were people who made there living off the Trinity, if not by fishing also trapping hunting and selling hides. I remember before there was a limit on white bass, and there was no cable at the dam. There were several news paper stories in the sport section, about fishing the dam. There were pictures of people with boats plum full of white bass. It was nothing back then to catch 400 a day. I wish I had saved those news papers. It was unreal to see the bottom of boats with 400 to 600 white bass in them. Its a good thing they put a limit on them and cracked down on poaching. I don't think we would enjoy as good of white bass fishing as we do today if they had not done something.


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## Jacinto (Sep 14, 2013)

brucevannguyen said:


> They must forget this is America.


 Or maybe it's the NEW America where the default is to call in armed government agents. You know "See Something, Say Something"? Instead of monitoring it and building up a case, why not just go to the manager of the store and ask where the fish are coming from, and tell them you have an issue with poaching and that's why you're concerned?

It is (or rather it SHOULD be) a bigass deal to call cops on people. Someone's dogs barking at night? Call the cops. Neighbor re-plumbing their house and you don't see permits posted on the window? Call the city inspector. Your kid throwing tantrums? Call the cops. I was talking with my neighbor one day and he said he saw 3 guys walking backwards down the street one night, so he called the cops. *** man, does being American now mean you turn your nuts in? It's taking what may have a peaceful resolution (or something that probably isn't a problem to begin with) and calling in folks who all to often come in guns drawn looking for submission and seeing themselves as sheepdogs and everyone else as sheep to be herded.

P.S. Not passing specific judgment here (except on my neighbor, and honestly he's an old guy now and maybe that's affecting his decisions) because there were specifics but also some generalizing interspersed. Just saying it's usually better to approach a man directly instead of delegating it to people who all too often exceed the license they've been loaned.


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## dan_wrider (Jun 21, 2011)

Jacinto said:


> Or maybe it's the NEW America where the default is to call in armed government agents. You know "See Something, Say Something"? Instead of monitoring it and building up a case, why not just go to the manager of the store and ask where the fish are coming from, and tell them you have an issue with poaching and that's why you're concerned?
> 
> It is (or rather it SHOULD be) a bigass deal to call cops on people. Someone's dogs barking at night? Call the cops. Neighbor re-plumbing their house and you don't see permits posted on the window? Call the city inspector. Your kid throwing tantrums? Call the cops. I was talking with my neighbor one day and he said he saw 3 guys walking backwards down the street one night, so he called the cops. *** man, does being American now mean you turn your nuts in? It's taking what may have a peaceful resolution (or something that probably isn't a problem to begin with) and calling in folks who all to often come in guns drawn looking for submission and seeing themselves as sheepdogs and everyone else as sheep to be herded.


 Well said :brew2:


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## Andy_Holland_25 (Aug 8, 2007)

Jacinto said:


> Or maybe it's the NEW America where the default is to call in armed government agents. You know "See Something, Say Something"? Instead of monitoring it and building up a case, why not just go to the manager of the store and ask where the fish are coming from, and tell them you have an issue with poaching and that's why you're concerned?
> 
> It is (or rather it SHOULD be) a bigass deal to call cops on people. Someone's dogs barking at night? Call the cops. Neighbor re-plumbing their house and you don't see permits posted on the window? Call the city inspector. Your kid throwing tantrums? Call the cops. I was talking with my neighbor one day and he said he saw 3 guys walking backwards down the street one night, so he called the cops. *** man, does being American now mean you turn your nuts in? It's taking what may have a peaceful resolution (or something that probably isn't a problem to begin with) and calling in folks who all to often come in guns drawn looking for submission and seeing themselves as sheepdogs and everyone else as sheep to be herded.
> 
> P.S. Not passing specific judgment here (except on my neighbor, and honestly he's an old guy now and maybe that's affecting his decisions) because there were specifics but also some generalizing interspersed. Just saying it's usually better to approach a man directly instead of delegating it to people who all too often exceed the license they've been loaned.


Exactly! The first thing communist and socialist governments try to get is people reporting anything suspicious on other citizens. I'm sorry and it's a shame but we live in a no nuts sissy acting America. A bunch of men run by feminists ****'s and they like it!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## brucevannguyen (Oct 21, 2012)

Beaux said:


> I worked for a large hybrid striper farm in Danavang, TX back in 2002 when I was just a kid. We harvested thousands of pounds of fish a week and sold them to markets. To harvest that ammount of fish requires a team of people and several pieces of equipment including 2 tractors, a sein net on a reel, a jon boat, a boom truck with giant dip net, trucks with boxes to load the fish and of course crews to run equipment and work the nets.
> 
> On small orders we would catch them with rods and reels to save time and money. Imagine fishing in an pond, about an acre, square in size and 12-15 ft deep with hundreds of 3-5lb hybird stripper. It was pretty fun to say the least. Catch fish till your arms were burning. Fish on every cast, some times 2. Normally throw casting spoons, but for added fun, topwater action like you've never seen it before. So no, its not uncommon to see a few ripped lips on the fish at the counter.


BEAUX I've seen hybrids in the market on a daily bases and I tell you farmed raise hybrids shapes and looked a lot different than the ones cuaght wild.These fish that I saw for sure looked wild. I mean it look like it came out of a copy machine like the ones I just cuaght not too long ago. All the farm raise fish in the market that I see usaully are 18 inch or shorter.These fish I saw was a lot bigger nothing like farmed hybrids.


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## Spec-Rig.006 (Nov 2, 2007)

Jacinto said:


> Or maybe it's the NEW America where the default is to call in armed government agents. You know "See Something, Say Something"? Instead of monitoring it and building up a case, why not just go to the manager of the store and ask where the fish are coming from, and tell them you have an issue with poaching and that's why you're concerned?
> 
> It is (or rather it SHOULD be) a bigass deal to call cops on people. Someone's dogs barking at night? Call the cops. Neighbor re-plumbing their house and you don't see permits posted on the window? Call the city inspector. Your kid throwing tantrums? Call the cops. I was talking with my neighbor one day and he said he saw 3 guys walking backwards down the street one night, so he called the cops. *** man, does being American now mean you turn your nuts in? It's taking what may have a peaceful resolution (or something that probably isn't a problem to begin with) and calling in folks who all to often come in guns drawn looking for submission and seeing themselves as sheepdogs and everyone else as sheep to be herded.
> 
> P.S. Not passing specific judgment here (except on my neighbor, and honestly he's an old guy now and maybe that's affecting his decisions) because there were specifics but also some generalizing interspersed. Just saying it's usually better to approach a man directly instead of delegating it to people who all too often exceed the license they've been loaned.





dan_wrider said:


> Well said :brew2:


POORLY SAID. While I see your point, and your principal is spot on - there's this little thing called Operation Game Thief. DO YOUR HOMEWORK. This isn't about the police state sweeping in a trashing the innocent working man, nor is this about some guys dog barking at night. Professional poaching rings and the black market sale of game in the US is a BILLION dollar industry and have nearly wiped out countless fisheries and in some cases - species. WISE UP. They're stealing from YOU and ME. And quite frankly, that infuriates me as it should you. IT IS NOT better to approach the man directly ... this isn't the OP's job, duty, or position and frankly could be dangerous. If you suspected a guy of marketing illegal firearms or narcotics would you "approach the man directly" ... ? SERIOUSLY doubt it.

If there's an issue, the Game Warden will set up surveillance ... and deal with the issue appropriately. They won't storm the doors all willy nilly for fun throwing tear gas canisters wearing riot gear.


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## Jacinto (Sep 14, 2013)

I hear ya, we'll just disagree.


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## tbone2374 (Feb 27, 2010)

Spec-Rig.006 said:


> Call TPWD ...


 THIS ^^^^^^ Let them investigate, that what our taxes are for...


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## John_B_1 (Jan 28, 2011)

Approaching a poacher and telling them to stop poaching is like walking up to a drug dealer and telling them you would appreciate them not selling drugs. Not saying this guy is poaching, but if he is, he is not going to stop because you don't like what he's doing. Remindes me of fishing Seawolf telling someone catching undersized fish that they are not legal to keep, they just smile and wave and keep catching fish. What do you do in that situation? Walk up and slap em for doing wrong? Ok John Wayne, tell me what the inside of the jail cell looks like. 

Report the market to TPWD and let them form a case.


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## SeaOx 230C (Aug 12, 2005)

There is likely no poaching going on . You *cannot* tell a wild caught hybrid from a farmed hybrid just by looking at it in a display case. I bet you anything the market has the paperwork for the fish in question.

That is not to say there are not people still out there like the type 1 and type 2 person described above. I may have known a few in another time and another life.


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

Most fish farms use rod and reel to fill small orders for local markets. The presence of hook marks does not necessarily equate to poaching.

Most poachers method of choice is a gill net.


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## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

Wow! This thread is getting to be like a Jungle thread! LOL
I think *Spec-Rig.006* post #16 put it well.


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## Spec-Rig.006 (Nov 2, 2007)

The thought of a bunch of ad hoc do it yourself GW surveillance operatives is just mind boggling ... 

If any of you want to read some things you can't put down that will blow your mind, check out:

Game Wars: The Undercover Pursuit of Wildlife - by. Marc Reisner ... accounts of actual US cases totaling well over a billion in game meats, furs, skins, ivory, drugs, prostitution, and murder ALL involving white bass, ducks, alligator crappie, and walrus.

REALLY good read.

American Hunter did a piece a few years ago about a trophy deer "outfit" - 2 brothers that did over 7.6 million in illegal harvest and heads.

TPW Magazine did a piece a few years ago about a guy in South Texas that was doing about 1.2 million a year in illegal harvests and heads.

And National Geographic did a piece in the late '90s about the Black Market wildlife trade world wide totaling 10's of billions of dollars.


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

Its Catchy said:


> ...
> Most poachers method of choice is a gill net.


 How do you know this?


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## Jwarren (Jul 26, 2011)

It seems logical, because you catch far more in a gill net, but I can also see how it would be easier to not get caught using a hook and line.


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

Meadowlark said:


> How do you know this?


If you are poaching it's all about volume. More fish = more $. Not to say that a poacher can't use a rod and reel.


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## Andy_Holland_25 (Aug 8, 2007)

SeaOx is correct in that you can't tell the difference in between a farm raised or wild hybrid. In fact hybrids are released by the state and stocked in our lakes. A true natural hybrid is extremely rare!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## danmanfish (Jun 17, 2010)

got my soda and popcorn... this is interesting!!!!!!


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## catfishFlinn (Jan 29, 2015)

Not sure why hybrid would be a concern I haven't eaten hybrid but tried white bass and not impressed I prefer blue cat or crappie and I would love to work at that fish farm awesome


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## catfishFlinn (Jan 29, 2015)

A commercial fishing license is only $26 and I was tempted to sell blue cats legally but the market I called had no need for another fisherman to buy from, what exactly are u referring to as poaching? Catching too many or illegal catch methods because I could catch my limit easily with 25 hook trotline and 20 jugs at will. I generally only keep that many when in need for a good ol family fish fry


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## shadslinger (Aug 21, 2005)

catfishFlinn said:


> Not sure why hybrid would be a concern I haven't eaten hybrid but tried white bass and not impressed I prefer blue cat or crappie and I would love to work at that fish farm awesome


Yep, I have eaten them and they are like white bass on roids. Which is not too say too much for table fair. That red has to come off for sure.
That is my opinion, I like small cat fish and crappie, and grilled striped bass.
And for sure would not buy a hybrid at a market.
They are fun to catch however, like a freight train!
In the next few years I bet there will be some natural hybrids on Livingston.
As it seems a lot of temperate bass on the south end headed north to spawn this year.
So there will be some mixing of the species.
They come and go on Livingston, but are not stocked there.


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## Lone Eagle (Aug 20, 2009)

In regards to the second part of your post....Back in the late 80's, there was a man that hired guides on East Texas lakes. He paid and tipped well. He was a good fisherman. I even took him twice before I knew what he was doing.

In short, he was selling the fish caught on his guided trips to restaurants in the Houston area. By doing this, he was fishing free as well as making his money. Two of the Lake Livingston guides, who have since left this area, saw him selling fish at a restaurant and turned him in .....then took the trouble to contact guides about it. We never heard of him again.



brucevannguyen said:


> dbullard there's two type of people out there you've just haven't met.
> 
> 1st type people is ones who has a serious addiction to fishing and catching fish.They go 3 times out of a week every week when the fish are thick/abundance.To help eleviated the cost of gas and expenses they sell all their catch to customers who knows them and buy on a regular base.Like neigbors,friends,co workers,relative etc...
> 
> 2nd type is one who is dam good at catching fish.All types of fish.They meticulously learn how to catch each type of fish and when the the time is right and the fish are abundance they catch and sell for a living or as extra income.Do the math.At twenty large stripers or hybrids 10 bucks a fish that's 200 dollar tax free per day.At 2 dollar per white bass 100 fish that's 200 dollar tax free a day.And if you doubt such a person exist with such capability in catching that quantity fish.Think again.


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