# Fed Waterfowl Laws



## Gulfgoose (Sep 25, 2017)

Here's something for all of the waterfowl guys on here.

If you could change one Federal waterfowl law what and why would it be? 
Shell limits? Possession limits? Plugs? Shooting hours? Public land management? Or whatever else you can think up.


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## Huntandfishaggie (Nov 8, 2016)

There is nothing harder than watching birds fly into your spread after sunset during those precious moments of twilight.


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## Gulfgoose (Sep 25, 2017)

Huntandfishaggie said:


> There is nothing harder than watching birds fly into your spread after sunset during those precious moments of twilight.


I have mixed feelings on this one. You'll have guys shooting up roosts potentially pushing birds out of an area and/or making birds go nocturnal. I know when pressure gets really heavy a lot of ours will sit on the roost all day and feed all night.


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## Sgrem (Oct 5, 2005)

Steel shot requirement is based on bad science and cripples more birds than lead shot ingestion.

Having said that steel shot manufacturers have come a long way with some great offerings that are very effective. Most good shooters have no problem downing birds.

And yes many people are uninformed that shooting times end AT sunset (many think its 30 min after like deer hunting.)

Stiffer penalties for shooting before/after legal time.


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## aTm08 (Dec 30, 2011)

If you are the tin foil hat type that believes the feds control the weather than have a regulation that requires the feds to cover the central flyway with 3 foot of snow and ice all the way to Dallas. Bet the hunting in the Texas coast would be pretty solid.


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## Jamie (Aug 2, 2011)

Shotgun plugs


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## Bearkat (Jul 18, 2008)

If I could, I would want lead shot back. I would also delete the conservation goose season. And I'll go along with aTm08's idea.


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## Gulfgoose (Sep 25, 2017)

Bearkat said:


> If I could, I would want lead shot back. I would also delete the conservation goose season. And I'll go along with aTm08's idea.


What's your reasoning behind conservation season? Bird education?

And yeah aTm08's idea would be prime! Throw in a ban on ice eaters and we have ourselves a rodeo.


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## daddyeaux (Nov 18, 2007)

I would want the lead shot back. If you can hunt Sandhill Cranes with lead in the same field you hunt geese in with steel, where is the reasoning?


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## aTm08 (Dec 30, 2011)

Gulfgoose said:


> Throw in a ban on ice eaters and we have ourselves a rodeo.


Ice eaters donâ€™t matter. They just give the guys a way to â€œhunt waterâ€

The ducks and geese will just sit in the ice and dry feed. I have personally seen 500k+ snows and a mix of 100k ducks just stand on the ice. The birds have adapted to the farming practices up north and all puddle ducks will go out and eat corn and milo. Yes the mallards pins and widgeon do it the most, but others are starting to do it. Shooting green wings, gadwalls, and even a occasional Woody in a corn field are becoming common. Unless there is snow to bury the food they wonâ€™t leave. Even when they get some snow if it will only be around for a few days the birds donâ€™t leave. Ask anyone up north how many birds stayed through the last set of winter storms they had.


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## 12Gauge (Feb 13, 2017)

Electronic callers for geese all season. They do it up in Canada. As long as the bag limits are followed what difference does it make?


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## Gulfgoose (Sep 25, 2017)

I'd like to see the hunt and refuge areas on fed land rotated every couple of years. 

E-callers all season if you are only shooting snows.

Possession limits increased and/or removed. If I go on a week long hunting trip why can't I take all of my birds back with me?


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## Mr. Saltwater (Oct 5, 2012)

Sinkboxes. If you can hunt a ground level pit blind on land why not in open water??


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## Drundel (Feb 6, 2006)

12Gauge said:


> Electronic callers for geese all season. They do it up in Canada. As long as the bag limits are followed what difference does it make?


Yea, that one bugs me too. If they can hunt snows that early with e-caller, then let us do it down here. If someone shoots anything else other than a snow during an e-caller hunt, bankrupt them.

I want the shell limit removed. How many times could you have ripped off 4 or 5 shells at teal all under 30 yards. I think a quicker limit and you out of the field/pond sooner would benefit the birds.

Look at this video for example.






When I tried to shoot again, that goose was under 20 yards and coming at us.


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## Gulfgoose (Sep 25, 2017)

Never thought of it that way Salt. Good point. 

You can always buy a Stoeger or an SBE 1 and float that fourth shell just sayin :dance:

No telling how many crippled birds limped off when someone could have put that 4th or 5th shell in them to drop em right there.


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## gulfcoast200 (Jun 26, 2004)

Gulfgoose said:


> I'd like to see the hunt and refuge areas on fed land rotated every couple of years.
> 
> E-callers all season if you are only shooting snows.
> 
> Possession limits increased and/or removed. If I go on a week long hunting trip why can't I take all of my birds back with me?


Leaving a wing or head attached to a bird cleaned at a hunting camp or in the field is what I'd change. I know it would make it easier to get away with shooting the wrong birds or too many of a certain species but its the one law that causes me the most grief. Texas itself doesn't have a problem with too many snow geese so I'm good with no e-callers and plugged guns during regular season. The limit used to be 5 back in the good ole days prior to the save the tundra crowd so if we're averaging 3-5 birds per man on slower days during regular season we're more than happy with it and anything over that is icing on the cake.. At the end of a good day most of the weekend warrior tag along goose hunters don't want the dead geese anyway so no need to make it any easier for a person with zero respect for the bird to kill a pile of them during regular season. Conservation order as far I'm concerned if every other state gets it we ought to and it gives the guys that cant kill them during regular season a sporting chance against very smart bird.


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## POCplugger (Jul 6, 2011)

I would love to see them shift the whole season back 1 month down south here...I know we get early pushes of teal and whatnot but man how many of you guys have been skunked out in November or just had relatively poor shoots because we simply dont have the weather to puh em or its still 90 degrees and your sweating your but off.....Start on Dec 1, break for 2 weeks at the end of Jan and close up shot Feb 28....I know we will shot much prettier mount quality birds. And since I hunt predominatly the coast, please for the love of god let us keep more than 2 stinkin redheads...And shile there at it let us kill sandhills on the coast again, and let the south zone open in early decemeber like the do in the north and let us keep 3 like they do as well....we have plenty, cmon:walkingsm


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## Spec-Rig.006 (Nov 2, 2007)

sgrem said:


> Steel shot requirement is based on bad science and cripples more birds than lead shot ingestion.
> 
> Having said that steel shot manufacturers have come a long way with some great offerings that are very effective. Most good shooters have no problem downing birds.





Bearkat said:


> If I could, I would want lead shot back.





daddyeaux said:


> I would want the lead shot back. If you can hunt Sandhill Cranes with lead in the same field you hunt geese in with steel, where is the reasoning?


Geese don't usually grit in fields.

What bad science is that exactly?

Not to be contentious ... but ... NO. Terrible idea. My ex's sister was responsible for lead-radius surveys around duck blinds in a dozen states. The science is notably solid. It's a problem.

Finish birds and kill em, that's all you have to do - forget the fact that birds CAN and do survive nonlethal steel shot wounds.

This is why - and don't forget about the residual effect on hawks and eagles.


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## 12Gauge (Feb 13, 2017)

I agree, i think lead is definitely toxic to every thing that lives. We're doin okay with steel....besides lead wouldn't improve my accuracy anyway.


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## CaptDocHoliday (Feb 3, 2011)

I'd back the limit down to 5, try to reduce the numbers of hens killed somehow, BAN SPINNERS, and create a 25 shell limit nation wide. 

All of these would result in improved hunt quality over time.


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## lonestarmb (Jun 14, 2017)

Iâ€™m with Sgrem, steel shot is worse for conservation than lead. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Timemachine (Nov 25, 2008)

Just about to finish up my 38th season. i have no issues and have no problem with how things are going. 

We slaughter ducks and geese using Steel shot. We should NEVER allow the use of lead shot again. 

I am HOWEVER, very unhappy about the new "call it reservation system" now used at Anahuac and other NWR's. Getting in line the night before, visiting with old friends, making memories for the kids is as much a part of the hunt as the actual shooting. Bunch of cry baby millennial complaining about "not getting a spot". Boo Hoo.. In almost 4 decades of sitting in line, I have NEVER, NEVER been turned away. Hunting NWR and WMA is an art all of it's own and has rules which one must follow. Newbies do not have the right to come in and demand we change the rules to cater to a few. 

But I'm not bitter...carry on!


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

Iâ€™ve always thought they should include a â€œmistake birdâ€ tag or two on the hunting license: have two birds drop with one shot when one fills your limit of that species, misidentification in the fog, or whatever: How many birds have been left out there over the years, that would reduce that waste and allow people to do the right thing with a bird they made a mistake on.


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## AvianQuest (Feb 7, 2006)

All lead shot should be banned. Lead is a substance that has no safe limit in any living creature including humans. Wildlife scientists have known that since the late 1800's but we had so much wetland habitat back then that it wasn't a priority. 

Fortunately the crippling rate on ducks shot with steel shot has gone down significantly over the lead shot days.

Also research has shown that we are saving around 1,500,000 ducks every year that would have died from lead shot ingestion.


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## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

Fire all of the federal wardens.

I haven't met one yet that I liked. They could take some etiquette courses from the TP&W Wardens.

TH


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## Sgrem (Oct 5, 2005)

dwilliams35 said:


> Iâ€™ve always thought they should include a â€œmistake birdâ€ tag or two on the hunting license: have two birds drop with one shot when one fills your limit of that species, misidentification in the fog, or whatever: How many birds have been left out there over the years, that would reduce that waste and allow people to do the right thing with a bird they made a mistake on.


This is a good thought.


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## Mr. Saltwater (Oct 5, 2012)

AvianQuest said:


> All lead shot should be banned. Lead is a substance that has no safe limit in any living creature including humans. Wildlife scientists have known that since the late 1800's but we had so much wetland habitat back then that it wasn't a priority.
> 
> Fortunately the crippling rate on ducks shot with steel shot has gone down significantly over the lead shot days.
> 
> Also research has shown that we are saving around 1,500,000 ducks every year that would have died from lead shot ingestion.


Back when steel shot became mandatory I cut open a lot of gizzards. Finding shot in them was more common than not. Steel is all I shoot now for all birds.


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## oOslikOo (Jul 13, 2010)

AvianQuest said:


> All lead shot should be banned. Lead is a substance that has no safe limit in any living creature including humans. Wildlife scientists have known that since the late 1800's but we had so much wetland habitat back then that it wasn't a priority.
> 
> Fortunately the crippling rate on ducks shot with steel shot has gone down significantly over the lead shot days.
> 
> Also research has shown that we are saving around 1,500,000 ducks every year that would have died from lead shot ingestion.


Agreed. There is plenty to read on the effects of lead shot. One read was from the Texas coast and the number of bird deaths attributed to lead poisoning was astonishing.


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## Gulfgoose (Sep 25, 2017)

Trouthunter said:


> Fire all of the federal wardens.
> 
> I haven't met one yet that I liked. They could take some etiquette courses from the TP&W Wardens.
> 
> TH


YYYEEEESSSS!!!! I find it funny that even state wardens can't stand them. Although we do have a state girl who's bordering on harassment right now. She has rolled up on our guys 5 out of our last 6 hunting days with nothing to show for it since we follow the law. Has even stated that she will be back all this weekend. Most state wardens are great but this one's the exception.


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## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

> Although we do have a state girl who's bordering on harassment right now. She has rolled up on our guys 5 out of our last 6 hunting days with nothing to show for it since we follow the law. Has even stated that she will be back all this weekend. Most state wardens are great but this one's the exception.


Report her. We had a Warden do that to us in the middle of our hunts back in the 70's and we complained, all of us, with individual letters to the TP&W and we never saw that Warden again.

He would come in just as first light when first flights started and he'd do it on purpose just to screw up our hunts.

We heard they shipped him out to west Texas somewhere .

TH


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## daddyeaux (Nov 18, 2007)

Gulfgoose, what area are you hunting? We have a female warden been showing up lately in our area.


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## Gulfgoose (Sep 25, 2017)

We're going to see how this weekend goes TH. She hits us on her first stop then goes to a different club in Rock Island and then Garwood. Checking the same people on the same property day and day out.


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## daddyeaux (Nov 18, 2007)

Well, I am in Garwood so it must be the same gal.......


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## Gulfgoose (Sep 25, 2017)

daddyeaux said:


> Gulfgoose, what area are you hunting? We have a female warden been showing up lately in our area.


Same as y'all around the prairie. She hits our Altair property then the Texas Duck Ranch then Garwood. She complained to one of our guys last weekend about the guys in Garwood giving her attitude after checking them constantly.


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## Gulfgoose (Sep 25, 2017)

daddyeaux said:


> Well, I am in Garwood so it must be the same gal.......


I don't want to misconstrue the fact that I respect and love what our wardens do and realize it is a very tough job but showing up nearly every single hunt on the same exact blind is a little extreme.


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## daddyeaux (Nov 18, 2007)

True, the guys around there know us and will check us once or twice. They know we are going to be legal so they don't bother us more than a couple times a season. Maybe the gal is just trying to learn who is good to go and who is not.


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

daddyeaux said:


> True, the guys around there know us and will check us once or twice. They know we are going to be legal so they don't bother us more than a couple times a season. Maybe the gal is just trying to learn who is good to go and who is not.


More likely sheâ€™s just new and doesnâ€™t know her way around. She knows where you are and how to get there, just making her rounds without having to hunt people down.


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## daddyeaux (Nov 18, 2007)

We think she has a crush on one of our guides. She has checked him more than anybody else.


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## Duckchasr (Apr 27, 2011)

Reduce the limit back to 3 ducks so we could weed out the flatbillers.
Then I could pick out my 3 trophy birds and shoot them feet down and not flaring wildly from all the skybusting going on around me.
I agree with the plug suggestions the duck limit is in place why can I not shoot 5 shots at a time if needed. I would like to see some food crops rice,corn,soybeans etc. grown strictly for wildlife on our Texas NWRs.


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## quackiller (Jan 27, 2012)

1. No plug
2. Ecall for snows all season (same rules as canada)


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## WoodDuck Wizard (Nov 18, 2007)

I would make permanent duck blinds illegal on all Texas bays and lakes.


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## Gulfgoose (Sep 25, 2017)

WoodDuck Wizard said:


> I would make permanent duck blinds illegal on all Texas bays and lakes.


AMEN! Think that's a state issue but I agree 100%. At least a permit system where you must remove and/or pay to have it removed at the end of the season.


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## WoodDuck Wizard (Nov 18, 2007)

Not sure about state or federal, but they build those huge taco stands and ruin the hunting for the rest of us. I say pack out what you bring in and no permit system would be needed.


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## Diapez (Jun 25, 2014)

dwilliams35 said:


> Iâ€™ve always thought they should include a â€œmistake birdâ€ tag or two on the hunting license: have two birds drop with one shot when one fills your limit of that species, misidentification in the fog, or whatever: How many birds have been left out there over the years, that would reduce that waste and allow people to do the right thing with a bird they made a mistake on.


Interesting thought. The fear of misidentifying a bird is what kept me away from trying duck hunting for years. You can watch as many Youtube videos and look at as many species identification charts as you want, but it doesnâ€™t eliminate that concern of shooting the wrong duck. It wasnâ€™t until Nocreek invited me along on a hunt that I was willing to give it a try.


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## Gulfgoose (Sep 25, 2017)

I believe there was a similar thing with the new white wing season we had. Believe you could have up to two mourning doves as part of your limit.


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## Goose Lover (Jan 23, 2012)

Lead should be banned for dove and sandhills.

Lead is so indideous it had to be removed from paint and gasoline as well as for waterfowl hunting.

Dove and sandhills should also be non toxic loads.


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## 348473 (Apr 12, 2017)

Trouthunter said:


> Fire all of the federal wardens.
> 
> I haven't met one yet that I liked. They could take some etiquette courses from the TP&W Wardens.
> 
> TH


Agree! Well not on firing them. The one around Bastrop is a major douche. Check you three days in a row, really? No personality like Texas wardens. Something must happen when you go federal. Mad at life, wife bangi gsome other dude who knows.


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## DuckSlayer1989 (Dec 27, 2013)

One thing that has aggravated me has been the 9" or less propeller diameter rule. I already have a hard time hauling 2 passengers in my gator tail with the standard size prop, with a 9" prop I for sure could not have a 2nd passenger.


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## Spec-Rig.006 (Nov 2, 2007)

hurricane matt said:


> Agree! Well not on firing them. The one around Bastrop is a major douche. Check you three days in a row, really?


You must look shady - the wardens in Bastrop have never been anything but pleasant with us. Hell, Mike will tell you where the fish are if he's around while you're cleaning fish.


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## c hook (Jul 6, 2016)

*agreed*



sgrem said:


> Steel shot requirement is based on bad science and cripples more birds than lead shot ingestion.
> 
> Having said that steel shot manufacturers have come a long way with some great offerings that are very effective. Most good shooters have no problem downing birds.
> 
> ...


I'm no longer a duck hunter, but back in the day when I hunted the Lake Livingston jungle(flooded timber). If you did not have lead no 4's, you did not have a 5 bird limit of green heads. period.


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## [email protected] (May 24, 2004)

Lots of pet peeves and legit concerns presented here. But, there is a lot more than meets the eye when managers endeavor to establish bag limits, season dates, length of seasons, etc.

A big one is the requirement for plugs in shotguns. All the data sets currently available are based upon plugged guns. Will removing the requirement enable hunters to harvest beyond the historic data rate? If so, should seasons be shortened?

Another gray area is the e-call during regular season. Would the general use of e-call increase the harvest potential for light geese, and perhaps specks, too? Specks seem to respond to "snow music" quite well. It has been brought up that Canada has more liberal e-call regs, but their seasons are typically much shorter due to weather patterns.

I used to cry for the abolition of the non-toxic shot requirement but no more. Wrapping up my 53rd duck season, I say that modern ammo options enable us to be at least as efficient as during the lead era, if not more.

Now, for what I would like to see changed...
-No "permanent blinds" on state or fed-managed public waterways.
-No afternoon waterfowl hunting on state or fed-managed public waterways.
-Implementation of mulligan program; meaning that a hunter making a mistake in species ID or too many of a restricted species can enter incident details electronically at time of infraction and invoke his mulligan privilege, and legally retain the bird(s). Obviously there would have to be a practical limit on mulligan privileges...maybe two or three birds per season, or some such. 
-Last but not least would be MUCH stricter enforcement of waterfowl hazing regulations. Too bad our Texas wardens are so busy checking oyster boats that they are simply not able to be in the marsh enforcing this. The proliferation of airboats on Texas bays operated by unscrupulous guides constantly stirring birds so that clients can get a limit is ruining duck hunting!


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