# Performance Luxury car opinions



## jaime1982 (Aug 25, 2009)

As some of yall may know wifeys car(2014 Lexus) got flooded last week with all the rain we had and were back in the market for a new car for her. We have always been Toyota/Lexus family but would like to hear some opinions on the following cars since they are direct competition.

Audi A6, BMW 5 series,infinityQ70,Acura TL, MB E class are others we might consider(well probably not the MB). We are have our eye on a Lexus GS350 which has plenty of power for her and is as reliable as can be which is very important since this will be a car for her and the kiddos. Any opinions on these other brands!!


----------



## Sgrem (Oct 5, 2005)

What's the towing capacity?


----------



## Never easy (Mar 20, 2006)

ctsv


----------



## jaime1982 (Aug 25, 2009)

sgrem said:


> What's the towing capacity?


2 kids and groceries lol!


----------



## bluefin (Aug 16, 2005)

Anything with good reliability with an interior that matches Fruit Loops, Captain Crunch, ground in peanuts, coffee spills, Juicy Juice of every flavor, bbq potato chips, gum and of course vomit.
Or something more economical and use the extra cash to move to higher ground. :rotfl:


----------



## bigfishtx (Jul 17, 2007)

Dodge Charger with the hellcat engine will blow up all of those!


----------



## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

Per Consumer Reports, sticking with Toyota/Lexus wouldn't be a bad decision. If not, stay with Japanese over European.


----------



## maskale (Sep 19, 2014)

acura TL, Honda reliability. I have one, 168K. Wanted to get a new one, but now I want to know how long she will go. Zero problems. Flush/change fluids and new tires is all I do.


----------



## Poon Chaser (Aug 22, 2006)

All the above are great choices. The infinity has the most bang for the buck and great cars.

But of those I like the 5 series.


----------



## Baffin Bay (Jul 26, 2011)

BMW 535, full size luxury "in style " vehicle.


----------



## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Wife has a GS 3 something Lexus (Smaller SUV) almost 200 K miles on it still going strong.


----------



## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

Get her an F-250 with about a 12" lift. She apparently has already demonstrated that she'll drive or park in water that's too deep...


----------



## Spinky (Aug 11, 2005)

Whitebassfisher said:


> Per Consumer Reports, sticking with Toyota/Lexus wouldn't be a bad decision. If not, stay with Japanese over European.


I agree, have driven Lexus' for 20+ years, and just recently bought an 8 year old one for my son. Good, reliable transportation that will run forever. Europeans will kill you with repair and maintenance bills.


----------



## Grumpy365 (Oct 21, 2010)

There was a 2012 Lexus ISF that was ticked for doing 166 on 59 in fort bend county.

Maybe a Lexus ISF

http://m.mysanantonio.com/news/loca...ickets-in-Texas-and-6203951.php#photo-7829698


----------



## DCAVA (Aug 5, 2013)

Infiniti Q70, she will never go to another brand after owning an Infiniti. 

Don't ask me how I know......lol


----------



## acoastalbender (Jul 16, 2011)

Whitebassfisher said:


> Per Consumer Reports, sticking with Toyota/Lexus wouldn't be a bad decision. If not, stay with Japanese over European.


Consumer reports likes the Audi's......over 100 years of innovation and leading edge design in luxury and performance....as opposed to a dolled up Toyota...and doesn't spend nearly as much time in the shop as a BMW...

.


----------



## Sugar Land YAK (Jun 19, 2004)

DCAVA said:


> Infiniti Q70, she will never go to another brand after owning an Infiniti.
> 
> Don't ask me how I know......lol


x2

Bearcat U!!!!


----------



## jaime1982 (Aug 25, 2009)

So she still wants another Lexus, or maybe the infiniti. Shes not even interested in the others as of now.


----------



## RLwhaler (Sep 10, 2005)

jaime1982 said:


> So she still wants another Lexus, or maybe the infiniti. Shes not even interested in the others as of now.


My wife did the same....Back to Lexus.After a hand full of other names mentioned.In fact,there's a mint condition RX350 readily for my 15 years old girl when she will be driving in a couple of years.


----------



## Shallow_Minded (Sep 21, 2004)

bigfishtx said:


> Dodge Charger with the hellcat engine will blow up all of those!


Yea but it's still a Dodge.....


----------



## spike404 (Sep 13, 2010)

How about a Chevy Impala?


----------



## Navi (Jun 2, 2009)

My wife loves her acura TL, I tried bribing her into to a ctsv and was firmly told no, but she would take a new Acura TLX


----------



## jaime1982 (Aug 25, 2009)

Shallow Minded said:


> Yea but it's still a Dodge.....


Lol yep


spike404 said:


> How about a Chevy Impala?


Not being a richard but chevy isnt in the same class of cars were looking at.


----------



## w_r_ranch (Jan 14, 2005)

Heck, when you said 'Performance Luxury Car*', *I thought we were going to talk Maserati...


----------



## fishingcacher (Mar 29, 2008)

bigfishtx said:


> Dodge Charger with the hellcat engine will blow up all of those!


There's a pretty long waiting list for them now. 199 mph


----------



## 8seconds (Sep 20, 2005)

w_r_ranch said:


> Heck, when you said 'Performance Luxury Car*', *I thought we were going to talk Maserati...


Telsa is quicker. Get her one and go hunting for Corvettes & Vipers to humiliate!


----------



## w_r_ranch (Jan 14, 2005)

LOL!!! Telsa is a golf cart. I take it you never driven a GranTurismo...


----------



## OnedayScratch (May 23, 2012)

Definition of luxury? Paid For.


----------



## 8seconds (Sep 20, 2005)

w_r_ranch said:


> LOL!!! Telsa is a golf cart. I take it you never driven a GranTurismo...


It's one heck of a golf cart





They've made it quicker since then from the factory (!)






The Old Lady and the kids crack me up


----------



## spike404 (Sep 13, 2010)

OnedayScratch said:


> Definition of luxury? Paid For.


 That is why I suggested a Chevy Impala. All the bells and whistles on a high-end car are seldom use after the new wears off.


----------



## grouper150 (Oct 24, 2006)

If you go with the Mercedes or BMW, buy two - so you will have one to drive part of the time while the other is in the shop; occasionally both will be in the shop......I was young & foolish when I made that mistake.....


----------



## jaime1982 (Aug 25, 2009)

OnedayScratch said:


> Definition of luxury? Paid For.


Nothing is ever really paid for, youre living on borrowed time.


----------



## Lat22 (Apr 7, 2005)

I had a BMW 550 for a couple of years. Loved it, but it needed new tires about every 20,000 miles. Not from burn outs.


----------



## Never easy (Mar 20, 2006)

bigfishtx said:


> Dodge Charger with the hellcat engine will blow up!


 fixed it for ya:rotfl:


----------



## spuds (Jan 2, 2005)

I don't like how most Japanese cars feel with their steering feedback. Too light and isolated from the road.

I'll only consider German or American brands. Much better driving experience and contrary to the myth, no issues with reliability.


----------



## jaime1982 (Aug 25, 2009)

spuds said:


> I don't like how most Japanese cars feel with their steering feedback. Too light and isolated from the road.
> 
> I'll only consider German or American brands. Much better driving experience and contrary to the myth, no issues with reliability.


Im 100% the opposite.


----------



## OnedayScratch (May 23, 2012)

jaime1982 said:


> Nothing is ever really paid for, youre living on borrowed time.


I like to call it managed time.


----------



## Highflier (Jun 22, 2006)

Never understood the road feedback concerns when driving roads around Houston, whats the point? 
Had a 535, it was ok. 
Reliability over 50k mi was ok. 
Had some valve train issues that were under warranty.
Missing for sure in the luxury end, much like MB's. 
Spartan always comes to mind. 

After that, went with a GS350 very nice car. 
More luxurious than the 535 for sure.
Very quite inside. 
Does have a smallish trunk.
Can not beat Lexus for even routine service.
I drove it 50k mi, wife drove it 45k overall was very happy with it. 
Would have bought another but wife wanted a hybrid, stuck with Lexus


----------



## bg (May 21, 2004)

Lexus makes a nice, reliable, comfortable car. If she liked her old one, get her another.

BMW makes a very spirited driving experience but that performance comes at the cost of reliability. If mine wasn't so much fun to drive and I didn't have the F250 to use when it is in the shop, I wouldn't have it.

MB makes a very good vehicle and ours has been reliable. The E class is used for livery service in much of Europe and if you stick with the E350, you'll have a pretty reliable car. The E550 is more spirited but again, you sacrifice reliability to get that.

For her, I think you should stick with Lexus.


----------



## Ernest (May 21, 2004)

The more bells and whistles, the more down time. Don't really matter the brand. 

Warden used to drive the flagship model of one well known lux. import. All the bells and whistles. The car was perfect on the road. Could not ask for more. But, it would have warning lights on the dash because the backup blinker light was out. Sure, primary blinker light still worked, but the back up was out. Stuff like that. 

She now drives more of a upper, mid-level lux. sedan. Fewer issues, but it has fewer bells and whistles. There is no back up blinker light. Just one per fixture. If it goes out, then the warning light appears on the dash.


----------



## jaime1982 (Aug 25, 2009)

Ernest said:


> The more bells and whistles, the more down time. Don't really matter the brand.
> 
> Warden used to drive the flagship model of one well known lux. import. All the bells and whistles. The car was perfect on the road. Could not ask for more. But, it would have warning lights on the dash because the backup blinker light was out. Sure, primary blinker light still worked, but the back up was out. Stuff like that.
> 
> She now drives more of a upper, mid-level lux. sedan. Fewer issues, but it has fewer bells and whistles. There is no back up blinker light. Just one per fixture. If it goes out, then the warning light appears on the dash.


Thanks for the info E, were not going flagship lexus. Have you seen what an Ls goes for now? 
Were more upper middle thats why were looking towards the Gs350.


----------



## Gottagofishin (Dec 17, 2005)

I've had high end jap, high end limey, high end swiss and high end kraut. 

Japs and swiss are reliable but really boring. The limey luxury is unparalleled with good driving dynamics but crappy reliability

The Krauts build a great drivers car with better than average reliability. 

Porsche, MB, Audi, BMW in that order. I've owned them all and would own any of them again.


----------



## RLwhaler (Sep 10, 2005)

Gottagofishin said:


> I've had high end jap, high end limey, high end swiss and high end kraut.
> 
> Japs and swiss are reliable but really boring. The limey luxury is unparalleled with good driving dynamics but crappy reliability
> 
> ...


Just curious Gottago, How many Porsche's have you owned?


----------



## Gottagofishin (Dec 17, 2005)

RLwhaler said:


> Just curious Gottago, How many Porsche's have you owned?


Just the one. But it is brilliant. Hands down the best car I have ever owned.


----------



## Court (Jul 16, 2011)

Range Rover HSE


----------



## jaime1982 (Aug 25, 2009)

Spent most of the day looking at cars. The BMW 5 is pretty awesome just not real happy with the reliability feedback ive seen. The infiniti is pretty nice just not quite on par with the Lexus(but priced very competitively) . We went back to lexus of clearlake after but they close about 1900 so we only looked at 2 Gs cars (which i have already driven). So far the GS still has the lead for us. Didnt pull the trigger on anything


----------



## Runway (Feb 6, 2005)

Looks like my bride is honing in on an Infiniti GX70. It is not where I expected she would end up at, she has driven sports cars with manual trannies all her life.


----------



## 47741 (Jan 5, 2010)

spike404 said:


> That is why I suggested a Chevy Impala. All the bells and whistles on a high-end car are seldom use after the new wears off.


Nonsense. Try riding in an S class benz or 7 series bimmer. Zero comparison to an impala.


----------



## WESTTU (May 23, 2007)

I have always had a SUV or Truck, but recently I decided to move to a car for work reasons.

I love the Acura TL, new ones are the TLX. Sporty feel and the cost is very reasonable, I wouldn't classify it as luxury but it is a great car


----------



## RRfisher (Mar 5, 2007)

w_r_ranch said:


> LOL!!! Telsa is a golf cart. I take it you never driven a GranTurismo...


 I take it you've never driven a Tesla.

Audi/Porsche/VW are all expensive to maintain. Of your choices the Lexus and Infinity should be at the top.


----------



## jaime1982 (Aug 25, 2009)

SaltyTX said:


> Nonsense. Try riding in an S class benz or 7 series bimmer. Zero comparison to an impala.


Impala is not even in consideration, we have a chrysler 200rental that drives like a go cart.



WESTTU said:


> I have always had a SUV or Truck, but recently I decided to move to a car for work reasons.
> 
> I love the Acura TL, new ones are the TLX. Sporty feel and the cost is very reasonable, I wouldn't classify it as luxury but it is a great car


Those are on the list for today possible, i know theyre not as "luxurious" as the competition but still worth a look. This is our first time considering something else besides a Toyota/Lexus.


----------



## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

> Lexus GS350


That's a really nice car and it would be my choice.

TH


----------



## jaime1982 (Aug 25, 2009)

Trouthunter said:


> That's a really nice car and it would be my choice.
> 
> TH


We really liked this one yesterday, its not new but is also not priced as new either.


----------



## DCAVA (Aug 5, 2013)

^^^Nice lookin' ride, what is the horsepower on those puppies as compared to the Infiniti sedan?


----------



## jaime1982 (Aug 25, 2009)

The Infiniti V-6 has 327 and the Lexus has 306. Both are pretty close. I like how nissan has the dual air intake though.


----------



## Russ757 (Apr 5, 2010)

Mom has had 2 BMW since 2010. Newest one is a 2014 535 and has been in the shop a few times already. The old beamer had same type of problems and was a pain, I wouldnt recommend BMW


----------



## DCAVA (Aug 5, 2013)

jaime1982 said:


> The Infiniti V-6 has 327 and the Lexus has 306. Both are pretty close. I like how nissan has the dual air intake though.


My wife drives an FX35 and has for the last 8 years or so; basically a 350Z motor/frame with a suv body. Really awesome power and handling. I took her several different highline suv's and cars when I wanted to upgrade her a few years back. I really liked the Audi Q7, she said it don't move like my Infiniti...lol

So long story short, her upgrade was to another FX35. Not too much I could say but, yes maam!!


----------



## FishAfrica (Jan 23, 2010)

My parents owned several of the Euro brands, get the Lexus!


----------



## manintheboat (Jun 1, 2004)

I am biased, but the MB E-350 is a great car in that class.


----------



## w_r_ranch (Jan 14, 2005)

RRfisher said:


> I take it you've never driven a Tesla.


I see no reason to test drive an electric golf cart. :rotfl:

But you go ahead & buy one... Be sure to let us know all the 'pluses' of doing so, especially when it breaks & you have to haul it out of state for repairs, ROFLMAO!!!

The company will be out of business as soon as the government's 'green' incentives disappear, where as Maserati has been in business for 101 yrs.


----------



## manintheboat (Jun 1, 2004)

Teslas are really cool cars, but factoring the price it is several steps up in class than what the OP is looking for. If price isn't too much of an object, the Porsche Panamera is one to add to the list. Sweet car.


----------



## Fuelin (Jun 21, 2005)

Wife just got the Infiniti. I recommend it.


----------



## spike404 (Sep 13, 2010)

Among all the mentioned autos, which has the highest P-Factor? Pretentious Factor.


----------



## DCAVA (Aug 5, 2013)

manintheboat said:


> I am biased, but the MB E-350 is a great car in that class.


E-350is a nice ride indeed, the BMW 330i sedan is bad arse as well, twin turbo power that SOB can move!!


----------



## bg (May 21, 2004)

DCAVA said:


> E-350is a nice ride indeed, the BMW 330i sedan is bad arse as well, twin turbo power that SOB can move!!


330 is a normally aspirated 3.0l inline 6 cylinder engine. It's the predecessor to the 335i, which is the turbo charged 3.0l inline 6, N54 and N55 engine. I have a 2007 335i E90 Sedan with the N54. It is 300HP stock, chipped it easily makes 370HP (where mine is now). I'm currently doing M3 suspension upgrades and will be putting in a limited slip differential because I can't put all the power I have now on the pavement. Once that's done, I'm going to upgrade the turbos and anticipate at least 450HP, which will make it one heck of a fast street car, it corners like it's on rails and the M3 suspension upgrades are improving that ability significantly.

All that said, it is by far the least reliable vehicle I've ever owned but I'm trying to get all my horsepower hours out in a hurry and I know that when pushing the envelope, problems are to be expected. I would not suggest this for the OP, even stock. BMW's are a lot of fun to drive but I wouldn't have it if it was my only car and I wouldn't put my wife in it as her daily driver. They just aren't reliable.


----------



## DCAVA (Aug 5, 2013)

*335i*



bg said:


> 330 is a normally aspirated 3.0l inline 6 cylinder engine. It's the predecessor to the 335i, which is the turbo charged 3.0l inline 6, N54 and N55 engine. I have a 2007 335i E90 Sedan with the N54. It is 300HP stock, chipped it easily makes 370HP (where mine is now). I'm currently doing M3 suspension upgrades and will be putting in a limited slip differential because I can't put all the power I have now on the pavement. Once that's done, I'm going to upgrade the turbos and anticipate at least 450HP, which will make it one heck of a fast street car, it corners like it's on rails and the M3 suspension upgrades are improving that ability significantly.
> 
> All that said, it is by far the least reliable vehicle I've ever owned but I'm trying to get all my horsepower hours out in a hurry and I know that when pushing the envelope, problems are to be expected. I would not suggest this for the OP, even stock. BMW's are a lot of fun to drive but I wouldn't have it if it was my only car and I wouldn't put my wife in it as her daily driver. They just aren't reliable.


My bad, it is the 335i; one bad arse ride for sure!! I was a used car manager for a BMW, Benz dealership for a couple of years a few years ago and had a demo driver. I loved taking the 335's home!! Bad to the bone, the coupe is especially cool as well!!


----------



## Bankin' On It (Feb 14, 2013)

My wife just traded in her Jaguar S-Type for a new 4X4 Toyota Sequoia Platinum. Man I love that truck. Man I HATED that car. 62,000 miles on it and couldn't pass inspection. It was a pleasure watching that hunk of junk leave my garage for the last time.


----------



## pevodog (Aug 10, 2014)

My wife has a 2012 BMW 335I and it is bad to the bone. It will spin the back tire at 35 mph if you floor it. Like you said, it corners like it is on rails. Had it three years , knock on wood, and never had any issues.


----------



## RRfisher (Mar 5, 2007)

w_r_ranch said:


> I see no reason to test drive an electric golf cart. :rotfl:
> 
> But you go ahead & buy one... Be sure to let us know all the 'pluses' of doing so, especially when it breaks & you have to haul it out of state for repairs, ROFLMAO!!!
> 
> The company will be out of business as soon as the government's 'green' incentives disappear, where as Maserati has been in business for 101 yrs.


 There are repair shops in Texas. And with all their competition you're probably right about the out of business thing...


----------



## bg (May 21, 2004)

pevodog said:


> My wife has a 2012 BMW 335I and it is bad to the bone. It will spin the back tire at 35 mph if you floor it. Like you said, it corners like it is on rails. Had it three years , knock on wood, and never had any issues.


They're coming... 

I've had mine for a little over 2 years. Got it with 80k on it and I'm at 112k now. I've done some fun stuff to it but I've also had to replace the passenger side headlight because it got water in it somehow and shorted the motor ($1500), water pump ($900), throttle body ($2000ish, I think), on my 3rd set of tires but a lot of that is on me and I'm running Michelin Pilot Super Sport tires ($1600/set), Starter (which you have to remove the intake to get to - $900), valve cover gasket ($800) and I need to have the oil pan gasket replaced at the next oil change ($500).

So yeah, not all that reliable and again, if it wasn't so fun to drive and/or was my only car, it would not be here anymore.


----------



## jaime1982 (Aug 25, 2009)

Just came back from checking the Acura TLX (decked out), very nice car with plenty of technology. Not bad on the pricing starting in the mid 40s but not what were looking for. 

The infiniti Q70L was VERY impressive with all the tech inside and TONS of features priced at 55, true car got it to 46 and we decided to hold off for today. Im gonna sleep on it vs the Gs350. 

My Lexus guy said there is no way they can touch the GS for that price, not even close. The one were looking at is 50k bottom line, not a penny less.

I STILL like the Lexus better!


----------



## bg (May 21, 2004)

In this price range, $4k isn't all that much. If you, and more importantly your wife, like the Lexus better, then get the Lexus.


----------



## DCAVA (Aug 5, 2013)

^^^^That's a 6k difference, roughly $120 more monthly payment wise, but yeah gotta agree if wifey likes it, u better get it!! lol


----------



## bg (May 21, 2004)

DCAVA said:


> ^^^^That's a 6k difference, roughly $120 more monthly payment wise, but yeah gotta agree if wifey likes it, u better get it!! lol


I guess I need a new math refresher. If the Lexus is $50k and the Infiniti is $46k, hos does that come to a $6k difference?


----------



## BayouBonsaiMan (Apr 14, 2009)

I'd look more at BMW , just me!, Used ones can be very reasonable! ,
IMO


----------



## bg (May 21, 2004)

BayouBonsaiMan said:


> I'd look more at BMW , just me!, Used ones can be very reasonable! ,
> IMO


Yeah, I only paid $19k for mine, but I've almost made up the difference in repairs. Maybe in another year... LOL


----------



## jaime1982 (Aug 25, 2009)

BayouBonsaiMan said:


> I'd look more at BMW , just me!, Used ones can be very reasonable! ,
> IMO





bg said:


> Yeah, I only paid $19k for mine, but I've almost made up the difference in repairs. Maybe in another year... LOL


Yea reliability is the main factor for use thats why were leaning to Japanese luxury. We plan to keep this car not get rid of after a few years. The Euro cars kinda have to much of bad reliability rep for me to be confident buying for the wife n kiddos.


----------



## DCAVA (Aug 5, 2013)

bg said:


> I guess I need a new math refresher. If the Lexus is $50k and the Infiniti is $46k, hos does that come to a $6k difference?


Yeah ur right, LOL, I'm tired and need a beer!! So its $80 higher pymt then, roughly on a purchase...


----------



## Gilbert (May 25, 2004)

bg said:


> I guess I need a new math refresher. If the Lexus is $50k and the Infiniti is $46k, hos does that come to a $6k difference?


The used car salesmen in him. Always ready to scam.


----------



## Runway (Feb 6, 2005)

Wife came home with an Infinity QX70. Really nice car, very well appointed with a ride that borders on stiff. Of course I just climbed out of a F150, so what do I know? The dealer was crawling with people when I dropped her off to pick it up - man I'm glad I live in Texas!


----------



## DCAVA (Aug 5, 2013)

Gilbert said:


> The used car salesmen in him. Always ready to scam.


Go cut some yards mojA!!! LMAO!!!!


----------



## TXShooter (Aug 13, 2007)

The Acura will last many years down the road, so will the Lexus.

No way will BMW match that.


----------



## pevodog (Aug 10, 2014)

TXShooter said:


> The Acura will last many years down the road, so will the Lexus.
> 
> No way will BMW match that.


Well an Acura is a dressed up Honda, a Lexus is a dressed up Toyoto, an Infiniti is a Nissan. Even Audi is made by Volkswagon. The BMW 3 series is and has always been the benchmark luxury performance car that all the other car companies listed above have tried to copy.


----------



## teckersley (May 25, 2004)

pevodog said:


> Well an Acura is a dressed up Honda, a Lexus is a dressed up Toyoto, an Infiniti is a Nissan. Even Audi is made by Volkswagon. The BMW 3 series is and has always been the benchmark luxury performance car that all the other car companies listed above have tried to copy.


Yeah I don't mean offense to the OP but "dressed up" is right. They are still Toyotas, Hondas, and Nissans. True they are reliable and probably more so than a Mercedes or BMW but if you want performance and luxury as stated in your post, you won't beat MB or BMW. I have driven all of those other Jap models trying to convince myself to go that direction but just couldn't do it. An E series MB is far more quality and comfort than any of the Jap models. I once owned a MB S500 and there are very few cars that can even come close to that comfort. I currently drive a BMW 750Li and it's not quite the car the S500 is but close. The performance comparison to the Jap models isn't even close. Reliability these days is arguable but if you want luxury and performance, the Germans have them beat without a doubt.

good luck in your search.


----------



## BATWING (May 9, 2008)

The Germans own this market. Yota, Honda and Nissan make fine cars for this day and age but in my opinion MB, BMW, Porsche and Audi take the win here. 

Kinda like furniture, lots of stuff look great and will last a long time but nothing will beat solid wood.


----------



## MarkU (Jun 3, 2013)

I have a '12 MB 450 GL. By far the nicest, smoothest, most comfortable vehicle I've ever owned, or ridden in. 46k miles, no problems as of yet. I tried to get the wife into a MB S550 sedan. She chose the Camaro convertible...Said she wasn't ready for a granny car...


----------



## prokat (Jul 17, 2010)

DCAVA said:


> Yeah ur right, LOL, I'm tired and need a beer!! So its $80 higher pymt then, roughly on a purchase...


Dam dcava,and here I was thinking about buying a truck from you,,lmao


----------



## bg (May 21, 2004)

The MB is a pretty reliable vehicle actually, if you stay away from the bleeding edge of the S550. I've driven an S550 on a few occasions and it is a very fine example of automotive engineering but there is a LOT of electronics in that sucker that can, and will, have problems. You don't see a lot of older S Class sedans on the road for a reason.

The E class is a great car, comfort and reliability, but I don't find it to be as much of a driver's car as the BMW is. The GL, ML, GLK are all very good vehicles as well if you stay in the 350, 250, 450 lines. The 550 of all of them starts to push that bleeding edge a little on the electronics again and issues start to show up.

The real question is what you're after. If long term reliability is it, the it's hard to beat Lexus, Infiniti or Acura. If performance luxury is it, I think you'd have a very tough time convincing anyone that cars built for the autobahn aren't superior. 

I still think the OP is going to be happiest with the Lexus. I wouldn't be, not that Lexus isn't a very nice car (my dad has one and I've driven it quite a bit), I just prefer the driving experience of the BMW. To be honest, as nice as it is, I really don't like driving my wife's ML all that much, BMW is where I'm happiest. Now we start talking C63 AMG vs M3 and I've got a tough decision to make. I think I'd probably still end up in the BMW, though.


----------



## DCAVA (Aug 5, 2013)

gom1 said:


> Dam dcava,and here I was thinking about buying a truck from you,,lmao


LMAO!!! :dance:


----------



## jaime1982 (Aug 25, 2009)

We had picked a premium plus car but now looking at the premium. Here are the current ETOM prices for the 2015 GS as of now. 

True car 50,987
Clear lake 49,963
Northside lexus 48,855


----------



## Yams (Jul 16, 2008)

Sounds silly, but have you considered the Hyundai Equus? Probably one of the nicest luxury cars i have ever been in...It's hard to get over the fact that it is a Hyundai, but i think it rivals the BMW 750 and MB S500.

https://www.hyundaiusa.com/equus/index.aspx


----------



## DCAVA (Aug 5, 2013)

Seems like a really fair deal Jaime, go for it and post up some pics when u take delivery!!


----------



## w_r_ranch (Jan 14, 2005)

yams said:


> sounds silly, but have you considered the hyundai equus? Probably one of the nicest luxury cars i have ever been in...it's hard to get over the fact that it is a hyundai, but i think it rivals the bmw 750 and mb s500.


roflmao!!!!


----------



## jaime1982 (Aug 25, 2009)

Yams said:


> Sounds silly, but have you considered the Hyundai Equus? Probably one of the nicest luxury cars i have ever been in...It's hard to get over the fact that it is a Hyundai, but i think it rivals the BMW 750 and MB S500.
> 
> http://www.hyundaiusa.com/equus/index.aspx


Not, that its silly. These are in a class above what were looking for, were in the 5 series class. On top of that is STILL a Hyundai. Great cars im sure, just not for us.



DCAVA said:


> Seems like a really fair deal Jaime, go for it and post up some pics when u take delivery!!


Well were not sold just yet, she still liked the infiniti too. I liked it too just it seems like it has a button for everything vs the Lexus has one centralized button with less clutter.


----------



## D.L. (Sep 13, 2007)

w_r_ranch said:


> Heck, when you said 'Performance Luxury Car*', *I thought we were going to talk Maserati...


 A buddy just got a '09 for a smoking deal and it is bad to the bone! But a little pricey to maintain... $1100 for a routine service


----------



## jaime1982 (Aug 25, 2009)

D.L. said:


> A buddy just got a '09 for a smoking deal and it is bad to the bone! But a little pricey to maintain... $1100 for a routine service


Yea, Maso is not even in my price range of about (55k). Im just a working class wage slave lol.


----------



## D.L. (Sep 13, 2007)

jaime1982 said:


> Yea, Maso is not even in my price range of about (55k). Im just a working class wage slave lol.


 He got this '09 for 40k with 80k miles but it was a friend of his.


----------



## jaime1982 (Aug 25, 2009)

Wifey went for the Gs 350F
The search is over!


----------



## bg (May 21, 2004)

Good deal, I think she's going to be happiest with that out of everything you looked at.


----------



## jaime1982 (Aug 25, 2009)

bg said:


> Good deal, I think she's going to be happiest with that out of everything you looked at.


I believe so too, the infinity Q70L wasnt too far behind but i like the angles of the Lx vs the roundness of the infiniti. Both are great cars. Pics coming as soon as we get it


----------



## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

MarkU said:


> I have a '12 MB 450 GL. By far the nicest, smoothest, most comfortable vehicle I've ever owned, or ridden in. 46k miles, no problems as of yet.


the average $3k every shop visit is coming... buy the extended waranty... the suspension system will be your joy, once it loses air and rides like a low rider it is non stop from there.


----------



## spike404 (Sep 13, 2010)

I will never understand, I suppose. Unless one pays cash, it is just another financed car, not luxury. 

The Emperor's New Clothes, writ large.


----------



## Gottagofishin (Dec 17, 2005)

InfamousJ said:


> the average $3k every shop visit is coming... buy the extended waranty... the suspension system will be your joy, once it loses air and rides like a low rider it is non stop from there.


We're on our second GL450 in 8 years. I just paid for my first out of warranty repair. The air suspension system failed. They replaced the front and rear airbags on the passenger side and ran new tubing for $650... At the dealer.

That was less than the last set of rear airbags I had installed on an f250 a few years ago.

New water pump on the Porsche last year. $350. Not bad.

The whole repair thing is a red herring. German cars aren't any more expensive than US or Jap cars to fix.


----------



## bg (May 21, 2004)

Gottagofishin said:


> We're on our second GL450 in 8 years. I just paid for my first out of warranty repair. The air suspension system failed. They replaced the front and rear airbags on the passenger side and ran new tubing for $650... At the dealer.
> 
> That was less than the last set of rear airbags I had installed on an f250 a few years ago.
> 
> ...


Maybe, maybe not. I had to replace the oil cooler seals on my F250, $350. A few weeks later, we had to replace the oil cooler seals on the ML (also a diesel), $2700. It depends on the repair and what all needs to be done to access the failed part. In this case, the entire intake needed to come off to get to the oil cooler, it was no small job.

But, I've also had Japanese cars that were just as difficult to work on. A simple thermostat replacement on my wife's previous car, a Nissan Pathfinder, required me to almost completely disassemble the front end of the car.

So, it depends on the specific car and the specific repair.

That air suspension on the GL is sometimes troublesome. We almost bought a GL350 Bluetech earlier this year that had an airbag fail on the test drive. The truck only had about 60k on it.


----------



## Yams (Jul 16, 2008)

w_r_ranch said:


> roflmao!!!!


As usual, you have no clue *** you are talking about again.

Congrats Jaime, my wife is in love with the Lexus GS. We had an older one and she would really like to have the newer model. Perhaps some day.


----------



## w_r_ranch (Jan 14, 2005)

Yams said:


> As usual, you have no clue *** you are talking about again.


ROFLMAO!!! Apparently I have more of a clue than you. Seriously dudette, a Hyundai??? In this thread???

Jeeze, you must have landed face down when you rolled off the delivery room table. :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:


----------



## Gottagofishin (Dec 17, 2005)

bg said:


> Maybe, maybe not. I had to replace the oil cooler seals on my F250, $350. A few weeks later, we had to replace the oil cooler seals on the ML (also a diesel), $2700. It depends on the repair and what all needs to be done to access the failed part. In this case, the entire intake needed to come off to get to the oil cooler, it was no small job.
> 
> But, I've also had Japanese cars that were just as difficult to work on. A simple thermostat replacement on my wife's previous car, a Nissan Pathfinder, required me to almost completely disassemble the front end of the car.
> 
> ...


I almost never keep them past their warranty, but I can't get Mrs GGF to get rid of her GL. The first one was leased and she wanted to keep it but the buyout wasn't a good deal so I bought her a new one 5 years ago.

I told she should really get another one now that the warranty is out, but she likes the one she has. 85k and no issues other than the air suspension and that was just a slow leak. It would lean to one side after sitting for a couple of days. It would level out as soon as you started it up.

I drove it today for the first time in a few months and it's still as smooth and quiet as anything on the road. Sedan or SUV.


----------



## DCAVA (Aug 5, 2013)

GL450 is a luxury tank and a smooth arse ride as well, caint find a better highline SUV IMHO especially if it's a 4matic!

The S550 is the elite sedan in the Benz lineup and there is no bullchit with that ride; poetry in motion in a highline full size sedan.....

I have used them both as demos in the past and they are awesome!!


----------



## bg (May 21, 2004)

Gottagofishin said:


> I almost never keep them past their warranty


I think that's really the trick for reliability. There are a lot of good independent German car shops in Houston that can work on them for less than the dealer once the warranty is up but the parts are still expensive and it can take time to get them in.

My problem is that I can't leave things alone, I always want to get more out of the car than the manufacturer wanted to give me. In that case, the warranty is pretty much useless to me because I'm making mods that would have voided it anyway. I'm realistic though, I know they would void it for a reason and expect some issues going into the deal.

The ML320 CDI has been a great vehicle though, we can drive to Baton Rouge and back on a single tank of diesel (gets 26 - 28 on the highway, 20 - 22 around town) and other than the oil cooler issue, which is a well known problem on that engine that the new seal set corrects permanently, it's required nothing but routine maintenance in the 3.5 years we've had it. My wife doesn't drive that much so I expect we'll have that truck a long, long time. It's garaged and still looks showroom new.

She wants a GL though. If we find a GL350 Bluetech priced right, we'll "upgrade" her but finding the GL with the diesel in black on black isn't all that common. We had a deal made on the one we drove, pending the repairs, but the dealer couldn't get his act together and it ended up falling through and we haven't seen anything suitable within 300 miles since then.

I understand how the wife can be about not wanting to replace it. Once you get everything the way you want it and get used to the command system in that particular model, it's hard to switch to a new one. It's like upgrading your smartphone or getting a new PC, the switch comes with a painful and frustrating learning curve.


----------



## Jamie (Aug 2, 2011)

Tesla maybe

I read a pretty convincing article in an investment newsletter that one can justify the price of a Tesla versus $60K luxury cars once you run all the numbers

But I ain't got that kind of money


----------



## jaime1982 (Aug 25, 2009)

She picked a white one over black with a red (cabernet) inside. Looks pretty cool i think.


----------



## DCAVA (Aug 5, 2013)

Congrats on the new ride!! It is very nice!!!


----------



## jaime1982 (Aug 25, 2009)

DCAVA said:


> Congrats on the new ride!! It is very nice!!!


Im sure I "cough her" will like it.


----------



## jaime1982 (Aug 25, 2009)

Last pic of the inside


----------



## MarkU (Jun 3, 2013)

Nice ride, Congrats!

Now to address the MB haters out there. I own a company which has mobile cranes/bucket trucks. I have company pick ups. Wife used to drive vette's, now a Camaro. Everything costs money to fix, service, PM. Don't worry about me, I can afford it. 
Mine is a 4 Matic V8. Loaded with every option known to the dealer. Thing has TV's which have never been used. Other than being shown how to use them at the dealer. My only complaint is the FOB batteries dying under a month. I now buy them by the dozen, at batteries plus. Like I said, it's the smoothest ride I've ever owned, or been in. I've owned a BMW before. Not in the same class IMO. The Hyndai, no freaking way.. That would be like buying a Dodge, anything...


----------



## 535 (May 23, 2004)

spike404 said:


> I will never understand, I suppose. Unless one pays cash, it is just another financed car, not luxury.
> 
> The Emperor's New Clothes, writ large.


 why you gotta be like that??? you keep poo-pooing all over this thread


----------



## txgoddess (Sep 21, 2007)

jc said:


> why you gotta be like that??? you keep poo-pooing all over this thread


It's his duty.


----------



## w_r_ranch (Jan 14, 2005)

Congrats on getting your wife the new ride, Jaime...


----------



## spike404 (Sep 13, 2010)

jc said:


> why you gotta be like that??? you keep poo-pooing all over this thread


 Easy. It is an example of The Emperor's New Clothes. Same with Rolex.


----------



## jaime1982 (Aug 25, 2009)

spike404 said:


> Easy. It is an example of The Emperor's New Clothes. Same with Rolex.


Im going to keep it short since im on my phone.
This thread was about opinions on people's experience on certain car brands. While everyone has opinions on life/debt and how it should be lived and managed i wasnt asking.

Im not trying to be rude, there is also back button, feel free to use it.

And yes i wear a nice watch.


----------



## Fuelin (Jun 21, 2005)

Congrats on the ride.


----------



## Gottagofishin (Dec 17, 2005)

Mark u. I'm not sure why your batteries in the key fob go so quickly. I just replaced them after 4+ years. On the first GL I never did have to replace them.


----------



## MarkU (Jun 3, 2013)

I have no clue. I keep one in my backpack. The other stays in our key drawer at home. The guy at batteries plus said they shouldn't die that quickly. Oh well, what's $3.00 a month, in the grand scheme of things?


----------



## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

Jaime, you can change the picture to your own choice on the screen when starting the car. It involves a certain file type. Google it and put a nice big picture of you for her to see every time she starts it and the navigation screen comes on. Lol


----------



## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

MarkU said:


> Nice ride, Congrats!
> 
> Now to address the MB haters out there. I own a company which has mobile cranes/bucket trucks. I have company pick ups. Wife used to drive vette's, now a Camaro. Everything costs money to fix, service, PM. Don't worry about me, I can afford it.
> Mine is a 4 Matic V8. Loaded with every option known to the dealer. Thing has TV's which have never been used. Other than being shown how to use them at the dealer. My only complaint is the FOB batteries dying under a month. I now buy them by the dozen, at batteries plus. Like I said, it's the smoothest ride I've ever owned, or been in. I've owned a BMW before. Not in the same class IMO. The Hyndai, no freaking way.. That would be like buying a Dodge, anything...


then you should have got the GL550 money bags. Haha

Hyundai?? W T F


----------



## jaime1982 (Aug 25, 2009)

InfamousJ said:


> Jaime, you can change the picture to your own choice on the screen when starting the car. It involves a certain file type. Google it and put a nice big picture of you for her to see every time she starts it and the navigation screen comes on. Lol


Lol, nah. I think she's mad at me right meow. I must have said something she didnt like.


----------



## Gottagofishin (Dec 17, 2005)

InfamousJ said:


> then you should have got the GL550 money bags. Haha
> 
> Hyundai?? W T F


The 550 is a little quicker but not much. It doesn't ride as good though because it has run flat tires which are stiff as a board.

The only criticism I've hears about the GL is that it isn't as sporty as the other European SUVS. The makes no sense to me at all. It's an SUV. I want my SUV to be like riding in my favorite recliner.


----------



## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

QX 80 is where it's at now.


----------



## jaime1982 (Aug 25, 2009)

InfamousJ said:


> QX 80 is where it's at now.


Is that the suv?
I just drove her car for the first time today, one word AWESOME. I can really get in some trouble in this thing.


----------



## RLwhaler (Sep 10, 2005)

jaime1982 said:


> Is that the suv?
> I just drove her car for the first time today, one word AWESOME. I can really get in some trouble in this thing.


Congrats Jaime! My wife has the RX F version. With kids from 5,8,15..We will always have an SUV.


----------



## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

jaime1982 said:


> Is that the suv?


yes, and a beast at that full of luxury when loaded out

Tons of room

horsepower and torque makes the mb, lex, and BMW feel like v4 power and not even half of a half ton vehicle.


----------



## jaime1982 (Aug 25, 2009)

InfamousJ said:


> yes, and a beast at that full of luxury when loaded out
> 
> Tons of room
> 
> horsepower and torque makes the mb, lex, and BMW feel like v4 power and not even half of a half ton vehicle.


Is that the same 5.6 that was in the titan?
Are you saying that it will shame a LX570 or a Toyota Land cruiser???


----------



## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

InfamousJ said:


> yes, and a beast at that full of luxury when loaded out
> 
> Tons of room
> 
> horsepower and torque makes the mb, lex, and BMW feel like v4 power and not even half of a half ton vehicle.


I saw one of those stopped in front of a little mud puddle in Edna a couple of weeks back. Big, honkin', white grocery and daycare delivery machine. They must be front wheel drive and innerloop capable...


----------



## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

Haute Pursuit said:


> I saw one of those stopped in front of a little mud puddle in Edna a couple of weeks back. Big, honkin', white grocery and daycare delivery machine. They must be front wheel drive and innerloop capable...


saw a cityfied jeep find the next best gravel spot on the same road


----------



## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

InfamousJ said:


> saw a cityfied jeep find the next best gravel spot on the same road


It must have been blocked from using the actual road too. :rotfl:


----------



## hippyfisher (Mar 24, 2009)

MarkU said:


> I have no clue. I keep one in my backpack. The other stays in our key drawer at home. The guy at batteries plus said they shouldn't die that quickly. Oh well, what's $3.00 a month, in the grand scheme of things?


The FOB for my wife's Infiniti starts saying its low (on the dashboard in the car is says it i mean) within a month also, but i've only changed it twice in 5 years. It just always says its low, havent ever had it be an issue though.


----------



## bluefin (Aug 16, 2005)

So how did the new car fare with all this rain?


----------



## jaime1982 (Aug 25, 2009)

bluefin said:


> So how did the new car fare with all this rain?


Good so far, she parked it in the garage last night and i was in my tundra for work as usual. Already have 1k miles on it so far.

Its pretty fast for a grocery getter but i think id like the F version thats coming out in 2016


----------



## jaime1982 (Aug 25, 2009)

Here is the one Im gonna get her when it comes out.

http://www.topspeed.com/cars/lexus/2016-lexus-gs-f-ar101164.html


----------



## jaime1982 (Aug 25, 2009)

Got my first ticket in years driving her new car yesterday. I have to learn how to drive like an old lady now.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk


----------



## Tortuga (May 21, 2004)

Guess it's probably a 'generational' thing.....and I am probably the only white man alive that still drives them...but I'm stickin' with my Caddy...Not too much on newer models but this big arse ol' 'tank' I'm wrassling suits me just fine...


----------



## txgoddess (Sep 21, 2007)

I'll stick with my truck. I'm much more interested in running people over than racing them.


----------



## jaime1982 (Aug 25, 2009)

txgoddess said:


> I'll stick with my truck. I'm much more interested in running people over than racing them.


Lol, i hear that. Im usually a pretty slow driver.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk


----------



## bg (May 21, 2004)

jaime1982 said:


> Got my first ticket in years driving her new car yesterday. I have to learn how to drive like an old lady now.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk


Setup a sinking fund for tickets, it won't be your last. 10 years without a ticket in the Ranger and F250, within a year I'd gotten 3 in the BMW. It's just a part of owing a fast car that's fun to drive.


----------



## SteelerFan45 (Jun 30, 2009)

*Luxury Car*

I've been kicking tires for the last few months and have it narrowed down to the Lexus GS350, BMW 5 and MB Sport E350. Will be buying a used model with under 15k miles. It all depends on the size of the motor and the packages available that will determine the price but all three are sweet rides. My budget is low 40's so that pretty much eliminates the Beamer !


----------



## jaime1982 (Aug 25, 2009)

roro45 said:


> I've been kicking tires for the last few months and have it narrowed down to the Lexus GS350, BMW 5 and MB Sport E350. Will be buying a used model with under 15k miles. It all depends on the size of the motor and the packages available that will determine the price but all three are sweet rides. My budget is low 40's so that pretty much eliminates the Beamer !


I already have a few k miles on our GS and we are very happy with the choice we made, the BMW was my 2nd choice but the GS F-sport series did me in. We didnt get the regular GS. From what ive read and looked at he GS is the lightest fastest car "in its class" just edging ahead of the BMW.

Our cars MSRP was like 57k, and we worked down to 49k and a few extra goodies thrown in too.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk


----------



## Gottagofishin (Dec 17, 2005)

FWIW. We have owned most of the Jap and Kraut luxury brands. They are all basically reliable, but the Germans engineer the best vehicle. 

Mrs GGF just got her 3rd GL450 over the last 9 years. It's the o lying vehicle that she's ever bought more than one of and she kept her previous two for longer than any of their predecessors. 

I personally ally prefer BMw and Porsche for the driving dynamics, but MB is hard to beat for balance between luxury, performance, and engineering.


----------



## spuds (Jan 2, 2005)

Gottagofishin said:


> FWIW. We have owned most of the Jap and Kraut luxury brands. They are all basically reliable, but the Germans engineer the best vehicle.
> 
> Mrs GGF just got her 3rd GL450 over the last 9 years. It's the o lying vehicle that she's ever bought more than one of and she kept her previous two for longer than any of their predecessors.
> 
> I personally ally prefer BMw and Porsche for the driving dynamics, but MB is hard to beat for balance between luxury, performance, and engineering.


I found a 2012 R350 Blutec Diesel AWD which was the last year they made them with only 14K mileage. What an extraordinary car/tank. It weights 5200 pounds, which is within 200# of a two wheel drive Tahoe. It's not an SUV, more like a station wagon, so the likelihood of a rollover in an accident is greatly diminished.

My personal observation of Jap cars, is that they look fantastic the first year or two, but begin look dated rather quickly. While on the other hand, Kraut cars seem to look great for years after they came out, because of less trendy, more classic styling.

FWIW, there wasn't a single Jap car on display at Keels and Wheels the last couple of years.


----------



## deano77511 (Feb 2, 2005)

I would suggest the Lincoln town ,but they stopped making the big lincolns a while back ,im lucky to have a 2000 cartier model .


----------



## jaime1982 (Aug 25, 2009)

spuds said:


> I found a 2012 R350 Blutec Diesel AWD which was the last year they made them with only 14K mileage. What an extraordinary car/tank. It weights 5200 pounds, which is within 200# of a two wheel drive Tahoe. It's not an SUV, more like a station wagon, so the likelihood of a rollover in an accident is greatly diminished.
> 
> My personal observation of Jap cars, is that they look fantastic the first year or two, but begin look dated rather quickly. While on the other hand, Kraut cars seem to look great for years after they came out, because of less trendy, more classic styling.
> 
> FWIW, there wasn't a single Jap car on display at Keels and Wheels the last couple of years.


I did like that bmw look, (you know the one thats been the same since the 80s.) It somehow stuck to me but the Lexus just called out to me. We may try the 5 series in a few years but im happy with the GS4.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk


----------



## jaime1982 (Aug 25, 2009)

Wife and I were considering the new Gs F but after looking at the #s we will probably just stay with ours. Not sure i want to spend that type of coin for a different car.

Comparing our Gs to the mustang Gt the gs aint no slouch, the stang is 1 sec faster in the 0-60 & 1/4.

Mustang gt :
435Hp
0-60 4.4
1/4 [email protected]

Lexus gs
306Hp
0-60 5.4
1/4 14 @101.0


----------



## jaime1982 (Aug 25, 2009)

Well almost 15k miles later and only a few tickets id say were happy with her GS. Kinda sucks 17mpg with premium but overall love the car









Sent from my Samsung S7 via Tapatalk


----------



## shunter2005 (Aug 21, 2006)

Had 07 Infiniti G35. Best car we ever had. Went to Mercedes E350 Coupe - nice car but they don't hold value worth a *%#t. Then tried Audi Q5 - wife hated it so we dumped it a year later. Went back to Infiniti QX60. Best vehicle move we made.

Don't know about now, but the QX 70 was more expensive than the QX60 when we were looking. 60 is a bigger vehicle with plenty of room and a 3rd seat.


----------



## bg (May 21, 2004)

Take it out of Sport mode and lighten up that foot a little and your mileage will increase dramatically. Of course, the car won't be nearly as fun to drive.


----------



## acoastalbender (Jul 16, 2011)

pevodog said:


> Well an Acura is a dressed up Honda, a Lexus is a dressed up Toyoto, an Infiniti is a Nissan. Even [Audi is made by Volkswagon.] The BMW 3 series is and has always been the benchmark luxury performance car that all the other car companies listed above have tried to copy.


Those Japanese autos you mentioned are just dolled up versions of the basic brands, but you have the Audi 100% wrong. Audi has been around for 106 years, VW only 80 or so, just the opposite of the Japanese ... and the bit about BMW as a benchmark for Audi is ridiculous ... most car manufacturers would buy an Audi as soon as they were released to tear them apart to see how they were built and with what materials. Audi has been the standard of fit and finish luxury drives for years. Don't take my word for it, many Audi models are top Consumer Report picks. If you go to Germany check out the Mercedes plant, in particular check out the overwhelming number of Audi's in the employee parking lot ...

.

.


----------

