# $600,000 Stolen From Osteen's Church...



## Hullahopper (May 24, 2004)

http://news.msn.com/crime-justice/dollar600k-taken-from-safe-at-osteens-megachurch

I'm guessing it had to be at least partially an inside job. The lowest of low lifes!


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## cubera (Mar 9, 2005)

$600,000, man that's lot for a one day take.


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## bubbas kenner (Sep 4, 2010)

God knows who did and He will take care of it trust Him I do.


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## Blk Jck 224 (Oct 16, 2009)

cubera said:


> $600,000, man that's lot for a one day take.


Yup...Tax free to boot...I'm in the wrong business! hwell:


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## Court (Jul 16, 2011)

Blk Jck 224 said:


> Yup...Tax free to boot...I'm in the wrong business! hwell:


We think alike.


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## G-Money (Aug 3, 2007)

Stealing from God's House??? That's the express way to hell for sure.


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## bubbas kenner (Sep 4, 2010)

I think the FBI will do a shake down sunday am.See who ain't there as well.We all have our own sins to worry about let the chips fall where they may.


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## Cowboy1uhB (Nov 19, 2008)

It's God's way of telling Joel he makes too much money.


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## MarkU (Jun 3, 2013)

/\ This /\


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## DSL_PWR (Jul 22, 2009)




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## surf_ox (Jul 8, 2008)

I'm sure there's security footage. 600k doesn't exactly fit in your pocket.


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## Hullahopper (May 24, 2004)

Blk Jck, I apologize, looks like you beat me to the punch. I looked for such a post but didn't see one on the subject. Sorry about that. Over $200 K just in cash. That's a big hat they must be passing around. I'm not a member over there but that probably represents about 4 different services that take place over the course of Saturday and Sunday, maybe more.


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## michaelbaranowski (May 24, 2004)

I saw that yesterday and surprised it took so long before a thread popped up. 

$600k a weekend. I think I might be in the wrong business.

Seems kind of fishy to me that the money was taken from the safe. It isn't like everyone has access to the safe or just happened onto it open. How big does a safe have to be to hold that much money. How much is be given the panhandler around the Summit (it will always be the Summit to me).


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## Barbarian (Feb 12, 2009)

Cowboy1uhB said:


> It's God's way of telling Joel he makes too much money.


So how much does Joel make? The church might be paying the bills and then giving 100% away. I don't know, but just because they are bringing in what we think is a lot of money does not mean they are not good stewards with what God's people are giving faithfully. There have been countless lives changed for the now and countless people get a change in their eternal address because of what God has done through that group of people we call a church.

And my personal opinion is that if God wasn't happy with their stewardship, he wouldn't take it by using a thief to steal it. Just think about that for a second.


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## Pecos (Feb 20, 2006)

Beware of RICH "preachers" who have trash talking wives. 

PECOS


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## DSL_PWR (Jul 22, 2009)

Well from a previous interview:



> â€œâ€˜I donâ€™t want this to sound arrogant, but I believe one day weâ€™re going to have $100,000 a weekend,â€ says Pastor Joel Osteen of Lakewood Church in Houston .â€™â€


He can make it up in no time and still collect the insurance money.


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## Hotrod (Oct 11, 2006)

And these pastors live in huge mansions with private jets. I don't understand why people give to them. Please just visit your local church and give there


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## Spirit (Nov 19, 2008)

Maybe that Joel's wake up call for saying the apostles wrote the Bible wrong and that the scriptures about homosexuals are wrong and they are not wrong for their lifestyle choices. A big preacher saying the Bible is a lie didn't go over well with a lot of people.


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## patfatdaddy (May 29, 2004)

When you do it for the money your no better than a thief, when you do it to save souls God will bless you with a special place in Heaven.


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## aguaflaca (Aug 11, 2005)

Hotrod said:


> And these pastors live in huge mansions with private jets. I don't understand why people give to them. Please just visit your local church and give there


X2
they do it because it's the "COOL" place to worship. 
I'm just glad I got to see Ozzy, Metallica & MÃ¶tley CrÃ¼e (among others) at the Summit before they turned it into a superchurch.


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## Blk Jck 224 (Oct 16, 2009)

Just Having Flashbacks...


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## geezuphosdn (Jun 5, 2006)

Doesn't it go a little something like this?

And Jesus said to His disciples, "Truly I say to you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. "Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." When the disciples heard this, they were very astonished and said, "Then who can be saved?

Osteen's a crook


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## poppadawg (Aug 10, 2007)

Well he does preach that God wants you to be rich.


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## poppadawg (Aug 10, 2007)

Wonder how many think Olsteens going to burn in hell for preaching different from their own beliefs? Those holy rollers can be a rough crowd.


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## rookie06 (Oct 1, 2005)

Barbarian said:


> So how much does Joel make? The church might be paying the bills and then giving 100% away. I don't know, but just because they are bringing in what we think is a lot of money does not mean they are not good stewards with what God's people are giving faithfully. There have been countless lives changed for the now and countless people get a change in their eternal address because of what God has done through that group of people we call a church.
> 
> And my personal opinion is that if God wasn't happy with their stewardship, he wouldn't take it by using a thief to steal it. Just think about that for a second.


 Thought I heard somewhere that Joel doesn't take a paycheck from the church. Makes his money from his books.


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## TranTheMan (Aug 17, 2009)

rookie06 said:


> Thought I heard somewhere that Joel doesn't take a paycheck from the church. Makes his money from his books.


That is correct.

(I am not a member of his church and do not know much about what his preaching is either. )


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

God detest people people like Joel Osteen, and all others that profit from His word.

Matthew 10:8 You received free, give free.

These people make a mockery of God's word. It is amazing that so many people can be so completely fooled.

Posted this on another thread also. Thes people need to be exposed for what they are, crooks.


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## DSL_PWR (Jul 22, 2009)

shaggydog said:


> God detest people people like Joel Osteen, and all others that profit from His word.
> 
> Matthew 10:8 You received free, give free.
> 
> ...


Says I have to spread some green first.


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## bluefin (Aug 16, 2005)

geezuphosdn said:


> Doesn't it go a little something like this?
> 
> And Jesus said to His disciples, "Truly I say to you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. "Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." When the disciples heard this, they were very astonished and said, "Then who can be saved?
> 
> Osteen's a crook


That's a pretty bold statement. Are you basing that on just the few sentences you posted from the bible?


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

bluefin said:


> That's a pretty bold statement. Are you basing that on just the few sentences you posted from the bible?


He stated the absolute truth. You need to do a little bible reading and you can find the answer.


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## geezuphosdn (Jun 5, 2006)

bluefin said:


> That's a pretty bold statement. Are you basing that on just the few sentences you posted from the bible?


No, i'm basing that on my opinion of the man. If you believe in the word, then you believe Jesus got it right. In addition, I tend to believe Osteen (and others like him) lead people astray. Give more money, buy my books, and you're gauranteed a place in heaven...in other words a false sense of hope.

Osteen doesn't do what he does b/c he is trying to save your soul...it's all a big show for PROFIT.


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## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

Opinions are like bung holes, everybody has one and most stink. ALL of us basically write opinions here. Sometimes, opinions are stated on here as if facts. There is another thread on TTMB of the same event on which I wrote:

I have never attended Lakewood, and admit I am not a fan of huge money churches. I have maybe listened to Joel on TV a total of 3 hours in my life. He is what I call a "feel good" preacher; he tends to make his audience feel good. There are worse things Joel could do for a living than make people feel good (without drugs, lol) so I will not judge. I do tend to question the tax breaks that churches get though. They are a business in my opinion.


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

Whitebassfisher said:


> Opinions are like bung holes, everybody has one and most stink. ALL of us basically write opinions here. Sometimes, opinions are stated on here as if facts. There is another thread on TTMB of the same event on which I wrote:
> 
> I have never attended Lakewood, and admit I am not a fan of huge money churches. I have maybe listened to Joel on TV a total of 3 hours in my life. He is what I call a "feel good" preacher; he tends to make his audience feel good. There are worse things Joel could do for a living than make people feel good (without drugs, lol) so I will not judge. I do tend to question the tax breaks that churches get though. They are a business in my opinion.


He is being judged by a lot higher authority than you. And yes, I am SURE.


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## BATWING (May 9, 2008)

Man... Tough crowd. I wonder who pulls more cash over a weekend, Joel or Ed over at 2nd Bap.


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## roundman (May 21, 2004)

i just wanted to post on this fine thread about stealing, preaching, mansions/private jets, truths and lies, 600,000 dollars and heaven and hell :rybka:


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## Spirit (Nov 19, 2008)

The Bible does not say you cannot get into heaven if you are rich. I do not thnk the Prodigal son's father will be turned away from heaven. It says its hard for a rich man to get into heaven. Meaning money usually generates greed, selfishness, dishonesty ... all the traits that are un-Christianlike. 

What practices of Osteen make him a "crook"? Misguided, arrogant and self absorbed yes, but crook? Not that I've seen.


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

spirit said:


> The Bible does not say you cannot get into heaven if you are rich. I do not thnk the Prodigal son's father will be turned away from heaven. It says its hard for a rich man to get into heaven. Meaning money usually generates greed, selfishness, dishonesty ... all the traits that are un-Christianlike.
> 
> What practices of Osteen make him a "crook"? Misguided, arrogant and self absorbed yes, but crook? Not that I've seen.


You are blind then.


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## Waymore (Jul 6, 2011)

shaggydog said:


> God detest people people like Joel Osteen, and all others that profit from His word.
> 
> Matthew 10:8 You received free, give free.
> 
> ...


Damm straight.... They probally thought the collection plate was a little short so they double up with the insurance!!!


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## Barbarian (Feb 12, 2009)

I have to really believe that a lot of people justify not believing or not giving to their church because they think these guys or getting rich off of their people. Sure, some are and God will take care of that in his way and at his time. None of us have any idea how much Joel makes from the church. They have always said $0 because he makes a lot of money in other ways. I have to believe that is true and if so, none of what some of you are saying is true. And if it is, trust that God will deal with Joel. 

And the verse about the rich not inheriting the kingdom is because 'most' rich people worship their money and believe they earned it. 

Also, Paul clearly talks multiple times about supporting those who spend their time preaching and taking care of the people. He even talks about being a burden to the people.


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## rat race (Aug 10, 2006)

$600K....Poor Baby. What will he do????

Render unto Cesar.

Glad I'm a heathan. I get to keep my money.


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## geezuphosdn (Jun 5, 2006)

And the verse about the rich not inheriting the kingdom is because 'most' rich people worship their money and believe they earned it. 

If that is true, the Osteen most likely worships his money. Which makes me wonder more why people worship him like they do. Maybe they see him as an inspiration on how to use the threat of damnation as an easy way to make money...


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

Barbarian said:


> I have to really believe that a lot of people justify not believing or not giving to their church because they think these guys or getting rich off of their people. Sure, some are and God will take care of that in his way and at his time. None of us have any idea how much Joel makes from the church. They have always said $0 because he makes a lot of money in other ways. I have to believe that is true and if so, none of what some of you are saying is true. And if it is, trust that God will deal with Joel.
> 
> And the verse about the rich not inheriting the kingdom is because 'most' rich people worship their money and believe they earned it.
> 
> Also, Paul clearly talks multiple times about supporting those who spend their time preaching and taking care of the people. He even talks about being a burden to the people.


The scriptures do not indicate the rich do not have God's favor. It is all abolut the priorities you have in life. Anything can become a god, an entertainer, a sports figure, sex, recreation, money. Anything that consumes most of your time can become a stumbling block. Jesus told us "to seek the kingdom first." Anything that takes away from that can cause us problems.

And no, I do not think these type preachers are seeking the kingdom first. They are pursuing the almighty dollar. The "pursuit of riches" is where the problem lies.


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## Spirit (Nov 19, 2008)

shaggydog said:


> You are blind then.


About Joel, scripture or both?


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## Barbarian (Feb 12, 2009)

shaggydog said:


> The scriptures do not indicate the rich do not have God's favor. It is all abolut the priorities you have in life. Anything can become a god, an entertainer, a sports figure, sex, recreation, money. Anything that consumes most of your time can become a stumbling block. Jesus told us "to seek the kingdom first." Anything that takes away from that can cause us problems.
> 
> And no, I do not think these type preachers are seeking the kingdom first. They are pursuing the almighty dollar. The "pursuit of riches" is where the problem lies.


 So based upon your post, I assume you are a believer in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. Is that correct?


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## poppadawg (Aug 10, 2007)

If you dont believe exactly as I believe than you will definitely burn in hell. For all eternity. Amen


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## geezuphosdn (Jun 5, 2006)

poppadawg said:


> If you dont believe exactly as I believe, and donate large sums of money to ME...err um, I mean God, than you will definitely burn in hell. For all eternity. Amen


FTFY


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

Barbarian said:


> So based upon your post, I assume you are a believer in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. Is that correct?


Absolutely. Jesus is my savior.


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## rat race (Aug 10, 2006)

"Don't follow the shoe...follow the gourd"

Ritious Monty Pithon..Life of Brian


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## capt.sandbar (Aug 31, 2007)

Something's wrong when the Pastor's name on the side of the building is bigger than the name of the Church on the side of the building...


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## Barbarian (Feb 12, 2009)

shaggydog said:


> Absolutely. Jesus is my savior.


 Then we are brothers in Christ and I understand and appreciate your passion. Just be careful on that fine line of judgment you are walking. I get it - I really do, but we don't really know what that church does with the money. God does though and if he doesn't consider them good stewards, he will deal with it - maybe not by our time line, but he will deal with it.


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## Reel_Blessed II (Jun 24, 2004)

shaggydog said:


> God detest people people like Joel Osteen, and all others that profit from His word.
> 
> Matthew 10:8 You received free, give free.
> 
> ...


 So your pastor doesn't have a salary?


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## Bozo (Jun 16, 2004)

Reel_Blessed II said:


> So your pastor doesn't have a salary?


I grew up in a Church that didn't have a paid preacher. Most very conservative congregations don't have a paid preacher. One, they can't afford it because they are usually very small meaning less than 50 for an average weekly attendance and two, that they believe that no one should profit from God's work.

I don't disagree with that, and it is a do-able thing when the church is small and you have other Elders or Deacons (shepherds of the flock) that devote time to mentor, visit the sick and elderly and keep the doors open.

However, once you get to a point where those types of activities consume all the time for one or more of the church then I don't see an issue with them being compensated for doing the work of the Church as long as it isn't excessive and they maintain a modest lifestyle.


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## Tortuga (May 21, 2004)

Personally...I like 'feel good' preachers....

Roll on, Joel....


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## lil mambo (Jul 22, 2009)

Tortuga said:


> Personally...I like 'feel good' preachers....
> 
> Roll on, Joel....


 X100, God did not want his children to be scared, just happy happy happy


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

Reel_Blessed II said:


> So your pastor doesn't have a salary?


NO


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## bluefin (Aug 16, 2005)

So which comes for first or negates the other:
Accepting Jesus Christ as your lord and savior and then becoming rich.
Or being rich and accepting Jesus Christ as your lord and savior?

Tell me about King David and his wealth. Thought 'ol David was pretty wealthy with the wives, kingdom and all. Could have sworn he off'd a few folks as well. 

In other words there's a few on here who need to loosen their halos and quit judging others based on their income.


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## Wizness (Jun 15, 2011)

Luckily that's pocket change for Olsteen. That guy is loaded to the max thanks to god.


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## Reel_Blessed II (Jun 24, 2004)

shaggydog said:


> NO


 Does he have another job then? Good for him and it's probably a very small congregation. But I bet he also is not supporting 1000's of missionaries across the world or have multiple outreach programs for his city. Poverty does not mean Godliness.

I don't personally like Osteen's message but I have no idea how much he makes or how much he gives away. There are always going to be the Baker's of the world because they are flawed humans. Let's lift each other up and pray for the lost.


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

bluefin said:


> So which comes for first or negates the other:
> Accepting Jesus Christ as your lord and savior and then becoming rich.
> Or being rich and accepting Jesus Christ as your lord and savior?
> 
> ...


Judgement is not based on wealth, it is based on priorities. If pursuit of riches is your priority, you are not putting the kingdom first, and it can and will cause you problems in the long run.

If you study the account of David, you will find why he was forgiven. You will also find David paid dearly for his sins. It is all about heartfelt repentance.

People can always turn back from a wrong course in life and be forgiven. That is why Jesus died for us. Can Joel O. be forgiven, yes, but not pursuing the course of life he is now.


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## bluefin (Aug 16, 2005)

shaggydog said:


> Can Joel O. be forgiven, yes, but not pursuing the course of life he is now.


He's a preacher. He's a successful preacher. He preaches to more people than 99% of the preachers out there. 
And in your eyes he's a sinner b/c his church by virtue of it's size brings in a lot of money. Wow..
I don't even know why I'm going down this road. I've never listened to his message and don't know him personally. So maybe you're right. Let's just light the fires, toss him in and be done with it.
Since you know better you pick - who's the next sinner we should toss in?


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## ctt17 (May 7, 2007)

In a statement issued Monday, Lakewood Church said the money and checks taken, as well as some envelopes with written credit card information, were limited to funds given during this past weekend's Saturday and Sunday services.

$600,000 from "funds given during this past weekend's Saturday and Sunday services". Let's do some quick math. $600,000 * 52(weeks in a year) - ~$31MM. This discounts the assumption that ppl give more than that during the holidays.

While $600k is a very large number, especially to be stolen, that's 2% of the total collections in a given year......now that's a lot of scratch.


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## spuds (Jan 2, 2005)

The Earth is my Mega-Church and I don't give money to anyone who professes to talk for God.


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## bluefin (Aug 16, 2005)

ctt17 said:


> In a statement issued Monday, Lakewood Church said the money and checks taken, as well as some envelopes with written credit card information, were limited to funds given during this past weekend's Saturday and Sunday services.
> 
> $600,000 from "funds given during this past weekend's Saturday and Sunday services". Let's do some quick math. $600,000 * 52(weeks in a year) - ~$31MM. This discounts the assumption that ppl give more than that during the holidays.
> 
> While $600k is a very large number, especially to be stolen, that's 2% of the total collections in a given year......now that's a lot of scratch.


This is a time when a lot of people do their tithes - before taxes.


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## poppadawg (Aug 10, 2007)

Tortuga said:


> Personally...I like 'feel good' preachers....
> 
> Roll on, Joel....


Me too. Never been a fan of the angry Christian.


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## Main Frame 8 (Mar 16, 2007)

Barbarian said:


> So how much does Joel make? The church might be paying the bills and then giving 100% away. I don't know, but just because they are bringing in what we think is a lot of money does not mean they are not good stewards with what God's people are giving faithfully. There have been countless lives changed for the now and countless people get a change in their eternal address because of what God has done through that group of people we call a church.
> 
> And my personal opinion is that if God wasn't happy with their stewardship, he wouldn't take it by using a thief to steal it. Just think about that for a second.


 His net worth is @ $40 million. He attended Oral Roberts where he failed to earn a degree and left. He took over when his dad died in 1999.

There is no doubt that I am in the wrong business.


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## troutslayer (Feb 7, 2006)

Dire Straits had a lyric in one of their songs

"They legalized robbery and called if beleif"


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## ctt17 (May 7, 2007)

bluefin said:


> This is a time when a lot of people do their tithes - before taxes.


Good point.


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## Stumpgrinder (Feb 18, 2006)

I don't know who is going to heaven or hell.

I would like to know what Joel is doing with all that money besides living large . I never seem to hear much about real solid charitable stuff coming out of his church's coffers but I might be uninformed.

Come hurricane or other hard community times Osteen is a quiet, quiet man


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

For those that say he is a preacher and is doing good and so on. Research and see how Jesus felt about the Pharisee's, the religious leaders of his day. Just because you claim to be a man of God, does not mean you are.


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## bill (May 21, 2004)

Wow, a place has a lot of money (a lot to me anyways) stolen and some of the comments here ignore the theft and attack the person. Is the theft ok because it was from a Mega-Church?

I'm not a member but I have watched some on TV. I think they do good in the community, at least I want to believe.

I don't care to know the reason 40K+ people attend that Church every week, that is their business. I don't believe sitting in any Church makes you saved, no more than sitting in your garage makes you a car.

I hope the person(s) are caught. I hope it don't turn people against each other or make them less trustful in the future.


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## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

I feel so sorry for Joel Osteen. He's spent his life stealing from people who have fallen for his bs.


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## Mick R. (Apr 21, 2011)

My dad told me many years ago to beware of rich preachers who tell you to "give your money to God, but send it to me." 

I've always followed his advice.


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## Billygoat (Feb 1, 2013)

I don't feel much remorse when somebody steals from a thief...


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## roundman (May 21, 2004)

bill said:


> Wow, a place has a lot of money (a lot to me anyways) stolen and some of the comments here ignore the theft and attack the person. Is the theft ok because it was from a Mega-Church?





bill said:


> ill agree with bill!
> seems to me nobody is making those that choose to attend church donate


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## Baffin Bay (Jul 26, 2011)

These people are entertainers and they get paid a lot of money for it. If all the churches and religious groups/evangelists contributed 50% of their take to the hungry and poor we would not have hungry and poor. Now in Corpus the BAY Area Church owned by Bill Cornelius wants to become a mega church all over the U. S. and he is building churches quick. I personally skip the middle man and go pray straight to God.


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## bluefin (Aug 16, 2005)

Think what you will of the church or the preacher, what does $600k giving for one weekend from one church say about the folks of Houston? Sounds to me like there are some pretty good people who attend.


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## poppadawg (Aug 10, 2007)

Baffin Bay said:


> Now in Corpus the BAY Area Church owned by Bill Cornelius wants to become a mega church all over the U. S. and he is building churches quick. I personally skip the middle man and go pray straight to God.


 About time they franchised. Wonder what one would cost? It would be nice to have some tax free income.


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## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

bluefin said:


> Think what you will of the church or the preacher, what does $600k giving for one weekend from one church say about the folks of Houston? Sounds to me like there are some pretty good people who attend.


That there's a sucker born every day?


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## poppadawg (Aug 10, 2007)

mastercylinder said:


> I feel so sorry for Joel Osteen. He's spent his life stealing from people who have fallen for his bs.


 No need to worry, he was insured. Like Joel says, have faith in god, but insure everything else.


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## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

If there really is a hell, Joel Osteen will wind up there. He just preys on people's weaknesses.


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## Country Boy (Aug 15, 2008)

bluefin said:


> Think what you will of the church or the preacher, what does $600k giving for one weekend from one church say about the folks of Houston? Sounds to me like there are some pretty good people who attend.


If all the sheeple want to throw their money at fools like Olsteen, have at it. I think I'll blow mine on women and whiskey. Hiccup


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## Tortuga (May 21, 2004)

$600,000 in weekend donations stolen.. 40,000 folks attending the services... Looks like it works out to about $15/head..... Hardly what I would call 'stealing'...


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## Mad Mike (Dec 28, 2005)

mastercylinder said:


> If there really is a hell, Joel Osteen will wind up there. He just preys on people's weaknesses.


Please don't take this the wrong way mc, but you're a d^ck.


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## FoghornLeghorn (Sep 11, 2012)

Joel Osteen didn't steal anything. He never once forced a person to give him money. All donations are made by adults of sound minds and disposing body. 

He writes books that make people feel good and encourages them to do right and seek God. People buy the books, then he earns money from the sale. This seems pretty legit and honest to me...

Just because he makes a lot of money doesn't make him a thief. But calling him a thief DOES make you a jealous, self-righteous jerk off.


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## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

It's stealing. But it's in God's name, so it's OK.


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## Spirit (Nov 19, 2008)

shaggydog said:


> NO


Why should a pastor not be paid? Its a 24/7/365 days a week job!!

Being the shepherd of a flock is a full time job even for small churches and he needs money to live on. It takes time and money to visit parishioners, provide for those that are ill, attend and/or preach funerals, carry the elderly to do their shopping and doctor's visits, do visitations in hospitals and prisons, etc., etc., etc.

If you don't pay the pastor, where is he supposed to get the money to do the work that is required of a minister. There is certainly not time in his day to have any other type of job. Now, if all a reverend does is teach a 45 minute lesson on Sunday morning, that's one thing, but how can they fulfill all their duties without a stipend? The money that is collected in the offering plate is to do God's work .. from keeping the church maintained to providing for the needy and those on the mission fields - both at home (the pastor & local charities) and abroad.

You never said what I was blind about ... were you referring to my comment on Joel not being a crook or my not thinking all the rich are doomed.


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## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

Mad Mike said:


> Please don't take this the wrong way mc, but you're a d^ck.


Thanks. I just tell it how it is. I understand that reality is hard for some people to take.


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## cubera (Mar 9, 2005)

spuds said:


> The Earth is my Mega-Church and I don't give money to anyone who professes to talk for God.


X2
When I go outside I feel better than I did before I went out, don't need anyone telling me different.


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## 6.5 shooter dude (Jan 8, 2008)

That's only like $15 bucks per person. I figured he could do better than that.


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## Hullahopper (May 24, 2004)

mastercylinder said:


> It's stealing. But it's in God's name, so it's OK.


Gotta disagree MC. Stealing is what that POS thief did breaking into the vault.

Stealing Definition Stealing is taking another person's property *without permission*.


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## Gator gar (Sep 21, 2007)

Joel is just a great motivational, inspirational speaker. Nothing more, nothing less. Well......... maybe a false Prophet too.


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## cubera (Mar 9, 2005)

bluefin said:


> Think what you will of the church or the preacher, what does $600k giving for one weekend from one church say about the folks of Houston? Sounds to me like there are some pretty good people who attend.


Does going to church make them better people?
Does the fish on the back of car make them better people?
Does a law firm saying they are Christian lawyers make them better?


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## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

Who can get rich on Jesus and and be proud of it?


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## chumy (Jul 13, 2012)

bluefin said:


> Think what you will of the church or the preacher, what does $600k giving for one weekend from one church say about the folks of Houston? Sounds to me like there are some pretty good people who attend.


The majority who attend think exactly like you do.


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## gawnfishin21 (Feb 28, 2013)

Charitable contributions must be paid in cash before the close of the calendar year to be deductible on that years tax return...so the assertion people were donating heavily doesn't hold water.


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## Spirit (Nov 19, 2008)

mastercylinder said:


> It's stealing. But it's in God's name, so it's OK.


No, the IRS steals.....Joel's congregates donate. Donations are willingly given, its only stealing when its taken against your will.

You may not like how Christians behave when it comes to our religious practices. That is your right. But I don't put you down for your lack of religious choices and it really wears thin you putting believers down for ours. We have religious freedom in this country to worship as we please ... no one comes on here attacking agnostics or atheists ... would be nice if those who fit those categories would have the same respect.

I like you MC, you know that, but your constant belittling of believers views gets a little old. How about practicing live and let live, not live and put down?


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## alant (Dec 7, 2006)

So let's look at the numbers

$600,000 for a weekend
40,000 attend weekly
If we assume 75% of them attend on the weekends, that's an average of $20 per person.

Interesting.


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## Hullahopper (May 24, 2004)

spirit said:


> No, the IRS steals.....Joel's congregates donate. Donations are willingly given, its only stealing when its taken against your will.
> 
> You may not like how Christians behave when it comes to our religious practices. That is your right. But I don't put you down for your lack of religious choices and it really wears thin you putting believers down for ours. We have religious freedom in this country to worship as we please ... no one comes on here attacking agnostics or atheists ... would be nice if those who fit those categories would have the same respect.
> 
> I like you MC, you know that, but your constant belittling of believers views gets a little old. How about practicing live and let live, not live and put down?


Someone please lay some cabbage on this fine lady for this great post! I'm fresh out of bullets! Well said Spirit!


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## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

spirit said:


> I like you MC, you know that, but your constant belittling of believers views gets a little old. How about practicing live and let live, not livand put down?


Somebody has to do it, Spirit. We don't this place to get boring. I'm just here to entertain people. It's all I know how to do. I like you, too, I enjoy your posts.. You're a wise woman.


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## bluefin (Aug 16, 2005)

gawnfishin21 said:


> Charitable contributions must be paid in cash before the close of the calendar year to be deductible on that years tax return...so the assertion people were donating heavily doesn't hold water.


My bad. I remember I had until tax day to contribute towards my evil SEP plan to count towards tax write offs.


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## finkikin (Jul 8, 2011)

Joel O is not a thief. False prophet? Maybe? The sheep give to his church willingly. 

How come no one said that the guy traveling around showing off Bigfoot was a thief? Same thing, the only difference is one is religious and the other isn't. 

It's not stealing if there is a willing participant. 


Edit:
Oh yeah, Fark MC!


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## bluefin (Aug 16, 2005)

alant said:


> So let's look at the numbers
> 
> $600,000 for a weekend
> 40,000 attend weekly
> ...


" said the money and checks taken, as well as some envelopes with written credit card information".

I'd imagine the larger contributions are done with credit cards - you know, points and all.


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## Main Frame 8 (Mar 16, 2007)

spirit said:


> No, the IRS steals.....Joel's congregates donate. Donations are willingly given, its only stealing when its taken against your will.
> 
> You may not like how Christians behave when it comes to our religious practices. That is your right. But I don't put you down for your lack of religious choices and it really wears thin you putting believers down for ours. We have religious freedom in this country to worship as we please ... no one comes on here attacking agnostics or atheists ... would be nice if those who fit those categories would have the same respect.
> 
> I like you MC, you know that, but your constant belittling of believers views gets a little old. *How about practicing live and let live, not live and put down?*


 You mean like the guy that got attacked yesterday on the Baytown Bridge non-jumper thread (You know, the site sponsor)? Wasn't he entitled to his opinion without getting attacked / belittled?

I guess not.

Just Sayin'


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## DCAVA (Aug 5, 2013)

I won't really get into much commenting on this thread, the good book and my upbringing have always said 10% goes as tithes and first fruits, 100 fold is what I believe will be my return as a faithful giver.

I thank God daily for all the blessings in my life......

There are good and bad people in all walks of life and professions....


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## Barbarian (Feb 12, 2009)

Some of you would have really struggled in the real old days when people gave their 'best' and first picked crops and just burned them. Or they brought their 'best' livestock to be sacrificed. All of these were wasted from a human perspective. It would be like everybody bringing 10% of the check from Friday on Sunday and the preacher lighting it on fire. Now that would be hard.

God doesn't ask us to give for any other reason than for us to show our trust in him and that we really believe that it is not ours. He gives us 100% and asks for roughly 10% back. If you really believe that, then giving is easy and it really doesn't matter to where,who, what as long as you feel in your spirit that is what God asked you to do. God doesn't need our money, sure he uses it and those who collect will be held accountable. But our giving is how God asks all of his children to show we trust that all we have belongs to Him and that he has provided and will continue to provide. Not trusting where your money goes can not be a reason to not give God back 10% of what he gave you. Disbelieve or lack of faith can, but don't your self an injustice by believing that lack of trust in the world is a legit reason by God's standard to keep 100% of what he gives you.


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## Jamaica Cove (Apr 2, 2008)

If money buys ya a place in Heaven, then I may prefer some other place that doesn't charge to attend. I didn't know God needed money-after all, can't God create money like he did the Earth?


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## geezuphosdn (Jun 5, 2006)

Hullahopper said:


> Gotta disagree MC. Stealing is what that POS thief did breaking into the vault.
> 
> Stealing Definition Stealing is taking another person's property *without permission*.


MC...perhaps SWINDLER or HUCKSTER better defines who Joel O is....but a POS nonetheless.


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## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

finkikin said:


> Joel O is not a thief. False prophet? Maybe? The sheep give to his church willingly.
> 
> Edit:
> Oh yeah, Fark MC!


Praise the Lord. Please send me $25 and I will bless you.


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## Main Frame 8 (Mar 16, 2007)

mastercylinder said:


> Praise the Lord. Please send me $25.


I need to see a picture of your vault first- I need to know my admission to heaven is safe.

Safety first!!


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

DCAVA said:


> I won't really get into much commenting on this thread, the good book and my upbringing have always said 10% goes as tithes and first fruits, 100 fold is what I believe will be my return as a faithful giver.
> 
> I thank God daily for all the blessings in my life......
> 
> There are good and bad people in all walks of life and professions....


Tithing was done away with with the end of the Mosaic Law and the institution of the New Covenant. Fact is we should always give our best when it comes to God. It should not be done out of compulsion. It should be done because of our love for Him.


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## Reel_Blessed II (Jun 24, 2004)

Jamaica Cove said:


> If money buys ya a place in Heaven, then I may prefer some other place that doesn't charge to attend. I didn't know God needed money-after all, can't God create money like he did the Earth?


You probably shouldn't comment on this thread with your lack of knowledge. No where here did someone say or mention that tithing gets you to heaven. The non-believers on here commenting on what they don't believe in is good entertainment. Sad...but funny.


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## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

geezuphosdn said:


> MC...perhaps SWINDLER or HUCKSTER better defines who Joel O is....but a POS nonetheless.


Perhaps those are better words. I can talk some ****. Maybe I should become a preacher and you can pay me.to lie to you.


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## geezuphosdn (Jun 5, 2006)

mastercylinder said:


> Perhaps those are better words. I can talk some ****. Maybe I should become a preacher and you can pay me.to lie to you.


Where do I send the $$$? You should change from Master Cylinder to Pastor Cylinder.


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## KeeperTX (Jul 8, 2013)

mastercylinder said:


> Perhaps those are better words. I can talk some ****. Maybe I should become a preacher and you can pay me.to lie to you.


If you become a preacher, I can be the treasurer. I'm good with money.


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## DCAVA (Aug 5, 2013)

shaggydog said:


> Tithing was done away with with the end of the Mosaic Law and the institution of the New Covenant. Fact is we should always give our best when it comes to God. It should not be done out of compulsion. It should be done because of our love for Him.


 And it is Shagg, I give always with a loving heart.


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## Blk Jck 224 (Oct 16, 2009)

May God shove a lightning bolt up MC's arse right now...LOL


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## finkikin (Jul 8, 2011)

mastercylinder said:


> Praise the Lord. Please send me $25 and I will bless you.


 I refuse to donate to Dayton bingers.


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## Wizness (Jun 15, 2011)

Stumpgrinder said:


> I don't know who is going to heaven or hell.
> 
> I would like to know what Joel is doing with all that money besides living large . I never seem to hear much about real solid charitable stuff coming out of his church's coffers but I might be uninformed.
> 
> Come hurricane or other hard community times Osteen is a quiet, quiet man


Go look at his house in River oaks....and his wife is a rude turd.


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## Spirit (Nov 19, 2008)

Main Frame 8 said:


> You mean like the guy that got attacked yesterday on the Baytown Bridge non-jumper thread (You know, the site sponsor)? Wasn't he entitled to his opinion without getting attacked / belittled?
> 
> I guess not.
> 
> Just Sayin'


There is a huge difference between a one time disagreement over some harsh words on a touchy subject- that the poster knew may create a negative response, than a year in year out pattern of put downs and negativity if a thread has anything to do with a religious topic.

MC keeps this place lively and unpredictable ... except on religious posts.


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## Jamaica Cove (Apr 2, 2008)

Reel_Blessed II said:


> You probably shouldn't comment on this thread with your lack of knowledge. No where here did someone say or mention that tithing gets you to heaven. The non-believers on here commenting on what they don't believe in is good entertainment. Sad...but funny.


 I'm sorry, but the entire thread is about theft of money given in the name of God by the people in Osteen's audience. Read my post before you "Judge" someone and state they have a lack of knowledge-lest ye be judged before God. Plus, go read DCAVA's post.

God can make the mighty Dollar mere ashes and gold into dirt and ignorance into genius, except in a few cases!!


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## kweber (Sep 20, 2005)

as a member of the Holy Roman Catholic Church, it's deplorable what some religious faiths do to accure money...



tounge planted firmly in my cheek....



I have read a little history....



then there's the story of Jesus and the moneychangers at the Temple....



only time the Son of God showed anger.



making $ off faith is not new.


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## Bozo (Jun 16, 2004)

All I know is that I grew up in a little Church of Christ with parents that taught me that anybody that went to any other Church was likely going to hell. I thought that way probably into my 30's. If you had a musical instrument in the sanctuary, ticket to hell...if you didn't sing of one accord, where there were parts separated out for tenors, bas, sopranos, and altos, ticket to hell, seeing a woman pray when a man was present? God might burn your tongue right out of your mouth for not using it and allowing a woman to lead you in faith and don't even think about her speaking up in service. 

I feared that my aunt who had switched over to the Baptist Church when she married her husband was going to burn for that when she died of cancer. She was the sweetest, caringest, loving and most gracious soul I knew. How could that be?

Well, I figured out that while man is arguing who does worship better on Earth by point fingers and judging other brothers and sisters in Christ over how they go to Sunday meeting, God was pleased that we did good to find ways to worship that could be attractive to all and not so bent out of shape that we arent doing it right.

I can't carry a tune in a bucket to save my life, but I believe that God loves hearing my flat out of tune singing praising him. Am I singing right by somebody that could be in an opera? Probably not. It doesn't matter though. What one person says is right, the other does his best but may be wrong to the first. 

Worship is demonstrating faith to all. I don't think God sees one better than the other, it's just different. Parents love their children equally, even though one doesn't act or dress or get grades like the other. Each is unique and each is loved. God loves us all, and I think he loves our differences as well. 

If that means you think you have to give all your money to a church that you think is using it for the benefit of spreading the word and doing good deeds in God's name then so be it. If you think admiring a glorious sunrise from the bay while fishing and enjoying his bounty for us, then so be it. Just worship him and have faith is all he asks. Sounds like a bargain of the century to me.


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## Spirit (Nov 19, 2008)

That's it in a nutshell Bozo. Thanks for posting.


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## geezuphosdn (Jun 5, 2006)

Do you think Father Joel can save Lanieka? I think she's too far gone for his help.


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## KeeperTX (Jul 8, 2013)

I would like to start a collection to help Joel. Please contact me for the paypal account. Once collected, I will personally deliver 10% of it to his church. Thanks to all who will join in this good cause.


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## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

Apparently ol' John taught Joel well. I hope they don't have to sell their ski lodge in Aspen or the villa in Spain now.


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## poppadawg (Aug 10, 2007)

MC and religious threads are prime time entertainment


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## sotexhookset (Jun 4, 2011)

geezuphosdn said:


> Do you think Father Joel can save Lanieka? I think she's too far gone for his help.


Lmao! Yea!! Lanieka's screwed.


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## Hullahopper (May 24, 2004)

It's taken straight from the internet so it must be true.

Joel Osteen Net Worth: Joel Osteen is an American preacher, televangelist, author who has a net worth of $40 million dollars. A pastor, author, and televangelist, Joel Osteen is the pastor of Lakewood Church in Houston, Texas. He took over his father's role as a pastor and televangelist, despite having very little formal religious training, in 1999. Since then, the Lakewood Church broadcast has grown exponentially and can be seen in 100 different countries.

Born Joel Scott Osteen on March 5, 1963, in Houston, Texas, US, he is currently the Pastor of Lakewood Church in Houston, Texas. Ever since Joel inherited Houston's Lakewood Church and its television ministry in 1999 from his late father John Osteen, he expanded both the church and the TV ministry. He even wrote a positive-thinking book in 2004, which helped him promote his "live at your full potential" message on the road to sold-out sports arenas. Although he holds no degree and only briefly attended Oral Roberts University, he honed his preaching skills to perfection under his father's guidance. *Once his inaugural book "Your Best Life Now" had become a New York Times best-seller in 2005, Osteen gave up his $200,000 church salary.* As for Osteen's second book titled "Become A Better You", it has reportedly brought him in a cool $13 million. Joel Osteen, whose book sales and related stuff generates a reported $55 million, claims an individual should not feel guilt for possessing lots of material wealth. Instead, one needs to thank and praise God for the acquired wealth.


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## poppadawg (Aug 10, 2007)

40 million bucks. Sweet. Not exactly a vow of poverty.


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## kweber (Sep 20, 2005)

Joel Osteen, whose book sales and related stuff generates a reported $55 million, claims an individual should not feel guilt for possessing lots of material wealth. Instead, one needs to thank and praise God for the acquired wealth. 

somehow from what I read about Jesus in Scripture/New Testament... I wonder...


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## Tortuga (May 21, 2004)

poppadawg said:


> MC and religious threads are prime time entertainment


I beg to differ....


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## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

Hullahopper said:


> It's taken straight from the internet so it must be true.
> 
> Joel Osteen Net Worth: Joel Osteen is an American preacher, televangelist, author who has a net worth of $40 million dollars. A pastor, author, and televangelist, Joel Osteen is the pastor of Lakewood Church in Houston, Texas. He took over his father's role as a pastor and televangelist, despite having very little formal religious training, in 1999. Since then, the Lakewood Church broadcast has grown exponentially and can be seen in 100 different countries.
> 
> Born Joel Scott Osteen on March 5, 1963, in Houston, Texas, US, he is currently the Pastor of Lakewood Church in Houston, Texas. Ever since Joel inherited Houston's Lakewood Church and its television ministry in 1999 from his late father John Osteen, he expanded both the church and the TV ministry. He even wrote a positive-thinking book in 2004, which helped him promote his "live at your full potential" message on the road to sold-out sports arenas. Although he holds no degree and only briefly attended Oral Roberts University, he honed his preaching skills to perfection under his father's guidance. *Once his inaugural book "Your Best Life Now" had become a New York Times best-seller in 2005, Osteen gave up his $200,000 church salary.* As for Osteen's second book titled "Become A Better You", it has reportedly brought him in a cool $13 million. Joel Osteen, whose book sales and related stuff generates a reported $55 million, claims an individual should not feel guilt for possessing lots of material wealth. Instead, one needs to thank and praise God for the acquired wealth.


$40 Mil is a conservative estimate. John liked to brag about his real estate holdings when he and Dodi were looking at ranch listings I had. They had at least that much in real estate holding's some years back. The wealth is spread thruout the immediate family. They are very good at what they do. They were very nice people as well.


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## poppadawg (Aug 10, 2007)

kweber said:


> Joel Osteen, whose book sales and related stuff generates a reported $55 million, claims an individual should not feel guilt for possessing lots of material wealth. Instead, one needs to thank and praise God for the acquired wealth.
> 
> somehow from what I read about Jesus in Scripture/New Testament... I wonder...


In all seriousness, a man could do a lot of charitable things with 55 miilion. A place in Aspen aint one of them. Wonder if he has a nice jet to get there. A important man of god can't be flying commercial.
Does it bother him?


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## pipeliner24 (Apr 10, 2013)

Give Joel a break.he takes all the money and throws it up to heaven and tells god to keep what he needs and let Joel's cut fall back to earth.


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## fishin shallow (Jul 31, 2005)

Who cares what he does with his money. The man has a talent and is being paid for it. No different than any another industry. There is a bishop in the Valley that has several properties in South Padre Island. And property in SPI ain't cheap.


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## Main Frame 8 (Mar 16, 2007)

fishin shallow said:


> Who cares what he does with his money. The man has a talent and is being paid for it. No different than any another industry. There is a bishop in the Valley that has several properties in South Padre Island. And property in SPI ain't cheap.


Madoff had a talent too.


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## Barbarian (Feb 12, 2009)

I am not defending Joel because I do not know him or go to his church, but I do want to defend the thought process that he can't be rich because he is a preacher. If that's the case, there are a lot of believers in trouble and I should probably sell my house and move my family into a shack. I am not rich by normal standards, but I am sure their are a lot of poor families that think I am because I live in a nice house and I get to hunt and fish with extra money. I give a lot to my church, but how much can I keep according to ya'll?

Let's play hypothetical here for those that seem to think he is a thief. He is rich, but why does he need to be poor to be a believer or a preacher. Lets say he did make 55 million off of book sales and other deals and it is true that he hasn't made a salary since the first book. Out of that 55 million, what do some of you judges think would be appropriate for him to keep? What if he gave 20% away which is 11 million. That is still 44 mill he keeps. Or do ya'll want him to give it all away so that he is only left with your salary or even less because how dare a preacher make more than you? What if God is blessing his book sales and other deals because he has chosen to take $0 in salary from his church when the church board would probably without a blink of an eye give him a salary over $200,000 now days. 

Here is a real life comparison. I was a part of a small group of 15 families a few years ago that was offered a large sum of financial support if we wanted to start a brand new church in our area of town. We were all just regular working families. We met in my living room and decided that we didn't know anything, but we felt led too do it because the message of Christ needed to be shared in our area of town which at the time was void of almost any churches. I was on the initial board and we held interviews upstairs at my house for the 1st pastor. After we hired him, we then had to figure out a salary. We were new, small, and on a very fixed budget. We voted to pay him $110,000 the very first year with only 15 families because we wanted him to be able to live among us and work full time in spreading the message of Christ in our area. This required his wife to give up her job and move with him also. So we paid our paster $110,000 in a start up church with about 45 people including kids. I think every church board in the world would vote unanimously to pay their paster of 45,000 members a salary of $200,000. And he takes $0 and you people are bashing him because he his rich. I am sorry, I just don't get it.


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## KeeperTX (Jul 8, 2013)

Oh Lawdy!!!
:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

Barbarian said:


> I am not defending Joel because I do not know him or go to his church, but I do want to defend the thought process that he can't be rich because he is a preacher. If that's the case, there are a lot of believers in trouble and I should probably sell my house and move my family into a shack. I am not rich by normal standards, but I am sure their are a lot of poor families that think I am because I live in a nice house and I get to hunt and fish with extra money. I give a lot to my church, but how much can I keep according to ya'll?
> 
> Let's play hypothetical here for those that seem to think he is a thief. He is rich, but why does he need to be poor to be a believer or a preacher. Lets say he did make 55 million off of book sales and other deals and it is true that he hasn't made a salary since the first book. Out of that 55 million, what do some of you judges think would be appropriate for him to keep? What if he gave 20% away which is 11 million. That is still 44 mill he keeps. Or do ya'll want him to give it all away so that he is only left with your salary or even less because how dare a preacher make more than you? What if God is blessing his book sales and other deals because he has chosen to take $0 in salary from his church when the church board would probably without a blink of an eye give him a salary over $200,000 now days.
> 
> Here is a real life comparison. I was a part of a small group of 15 families a few years ago that was offered a large sum of financial support if we wanted to start a brand new church in our area of town. We were all just regular working families. We met in my living room and decided that we didn't know anything, but we felt led too do it because the message of Christ needed to be shared in our area of town which at the time was void of almost any churches. I was on the initial board and we held interviews upstairs at my house for the 1st pastor. After we hired him, we then had to figure out a salary. We were new, small, and on a very fixed budget. We voted to pay him $110,000 the very first year with only 15 families because we wanted him to be able to live among us and work full time in spreading the message of Christ in our area. This required his wife to give up her job and move with him also. So we paid our paster $110,000 in a start up church with about 45 people including kids. I think every church board in the world would vote unanimously to pay their paster of 45,000 members a salary of $200,000. And he takes $0 and you people are bashing him because he his rich. I am sorry, I just don't get it.


It is a shame that so many that consider themselves Christian, miss the point. It is all about motive. His motive is to make a lot of money. I do not care if he draws a salary or not, that is his motive. Personally I never said he was a thief, I said he was a crook and I stand by my statement. he dupes people out of money.

A preacher of God's word should be teaching the flock the truths from God's word. I would bet, if I were a betting man, that half his congregation could not find Genesis in the bible, much less books like Ruth or Amos.


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## Spirit (Nov 19, 2008)

MC, I'm sorry for making my comment to you on the forum instead of by PM. Sometimes by the time I realize two wrongs don't make a right its over the 20 minute deletion time and half the 2Cool Nation has read what I said. 

I'm not apologizing for the comment, , just how I delivered it.


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## kweber (Sep 20, 2005)

this has gotta be excruciating for a couple of handles....sad2sm


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## mccain (Oct 20, 2006)

aguaflaca said:


> X2
> I'm just glad I got to see Ozzy, Metallica & MÃ¶tley CrÃ¼e (among others) at the Summit before they turned it into a superchurch.


 x2


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## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

Tortuga said:


> I beg to differ....


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## 98aggie77566 (Jul 7, 2009)

mastercylinder said:


> If there really is a hell, Joel Osteen will wind up there. He just preys on people's weaknesses.


All I can say is....you had better hope that there isn't a hell.

There are no re-do's.

Eternity is a long time brother.


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## Main Frame 8 (Mar 16, 2007)

98aggie77566 said:


> All I can say is....you had better hope that there isn't a hell.
> 
> There are no re-do's.
> 
> Eternity is a long time brother.


If it's anything like offseason between January and waiting for football to start back in the fall, I want no part of it.


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## Blk Jck 224 (Oct 16, 2009)

Suicide Tuesday...Scandelous Evangelist Wednesday...I can't wait to see what unfolds on Thursday. :bounce:


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## H2 (Jan 11, 2005)

Whitebassfisher said:


> Opinions are like bung holes, everybody has one and most stink. ALL of us basically write opinions here. Sometimes, opinions are stated on here as if facts. There is another thread on TTMB of the same event on which I wrote:
> 
> I have never attended Lakewood, and admit I am not a fan of huge money churches. I have maybe listened to Joel on TV a total of 3 hours in my life. He is what I call a "feel good" preacher; he tends to make his audience feel good. There are worse things Joel could do for a living than make people feel good (without drugs, lol) so I will not judge. I do tend to question the tax breaks that churches get though. They are a business in my opinion.


I agree and seems a lot on here seem to be very judgmental.


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## JRingo (Jan 25, 2012)

Pecos said:


> Beware of RICH "preachers" who have trash talking wives.
> 
> PECOS


Surprised he even missed it... Hope I am wrong..


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## JRingo (Jan 25, 2012)

Bozo said:


> All I know is that I grew up in a little Church of Christ with parents that taught me that anybody that went to any other Church was likely going to hell. I thought that way probably into my 30's. If you had a musical instrument in the sanctuary, ticket to hell...if you didn't sing of one accord, where there were parts separated out for tenors, bas, sopranos, and altos, ticket to hell, seeing a woman pray when a man was present? God might burn your tongue right out of your mouth for not using it and allowing a woman to lead you in faith and don't even think about her speaking up in service.
> 
> I feared that my aunt who had switched over to the Baptist Church when she married her husband was going to burn for that when she died of cancer. She was the sweetest, caringest, loving and most gracious soul I knew. How could that be?
> 
> ...


Well said...


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## capt. david (Dec 29, 2004)

Who are we to judge?


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## Country Boy (Aug 15, 2008)

Barbarian said:


> I am not defending Joel because I do not know him or go to his church, but I do want to defend the thought process that he can't be rich because he is a preacher. If that's the case, there are a lot of believers in trouble and I should probably sell my house and move my family into a shack. I am not rich by normal standards, but I am sure their are a lot of poor families that think I am because I live in a nice house and I get to hunt and fish with extra money. I give a lot to my church, but how much can I keep according to ya'll?
> 
> Let's play hypothetical here for those that seem to think he is a thief. He is rich, but why does he need to be poor to be a believer or a preacher. Lets say he did make 55 million off of book sales and other deals and it is true that he hasn't made a salary since the first book. Out of that 55 million, what do some of you judges think would be appropriate for him to keep? What if he gave 20% away which is 11 million. That is still 44 mill he keeps. Or do ya'll want him to give it all away so that he is only left with your salary or even less because how dare a preacher make more than you? What if God is blessing his book sales and other deals because he has chosen to take $0 in salary from his church when the church board would probably without a blink of an eye give him a salary over $200,000 now days.
> 
> Here is a real life comparison. I was a part of a small group of 15 families a few years ago that was offered a large sum of financial support if we wanted to start a brand new church in our area of town. We were all just regular working families. We met in my living room and decided that we didn't know anything, but we felt led too do it because the message of Christ needed to be shared in our area of town which at the time was void of almost any churches. I was on the initial board and we held interviews upstairs at my house for the 1st pastor. After we hired him, we then had to figure out a salary. We were new, small, and on a very fixed budget. We voted to pay him $110,000 the very first year with only 15 families because we wanted him to be able to live among us and work full time in spreading the message of Christ in our area. This required his wife to give up her job and move with him also. So we paid our paster $110,000 in a start up church with about 45 people including kids. I think every church board in the world would vote unanimously to pay their paster of 45,000 members a salary of $200,000. And he takes $0 and you people are bashing him because he his rich. I am sorry, I just don't get it.


JOEL, JOEL

Is that you Joel


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## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

TH


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## kweber (Sep 20, 2005)

oh... 
WAIT...
mulligan... please!!!!!


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## txjoker (Jun 21, 2005)

Exactly. They are getting out cheaply.

Tithing is supposed to be 10%! Bunch of cheapskates! LOL 



Tortuga said:


> $600,000 in weekend donations stolen.. 40,000 folks attending the services... Looks like it works out to about $15/head..... Hardly what I would call 'stealing'...


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## DCAVA (Aug 5, 2013)

Trouthunter said:


> TH


 LOL!!


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## Count Dragula (May 22, 2012)

mastercylinder said:


> Somebody has to do it, Spirit. We don't this place to get boring. I'm just here to entertain people. It's all I know how to do. I like you, too, I enjoy your posts.. You're a wise woman.


Come entertain us in person then, know it all big boy. We'll all be at the dike on May 3rd.


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## V-Bottom (Jun 16, 2007)

*yep.....*



Main Frame 8 said:


> Madoff had a talent too.


 and he ''Made-Off'' w/ a lot green too. He's in Hell now, so to speak.angelsm


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## kenny (May 21, 2004)

Count Dragula said:


> Come entertain us in person then, know it all big boy. We'll all be at the dike on May 3rd.[/QUOTE
> 
> ^


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## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

spirit said:


> MC, I'm sorry for making my comment to you on the forum instead of by PM. Sometimes by the time I realize two wrongs don't make a right its over the 20 minute deletion time and half the 2Cool Nation has read what I said.
> 
> I'm not apologizing for the comment, , just how I delivered it.


I wasn't offended, Spirit. We're all family here. You seem like a very likable person. (Don't take me too seriously on 2cool. You should know this by now).


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## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

Count Dragula said:


> Come entertain us in person then, know it all big boy. We'll all be at the dike on May 3rd.


I'll be there.


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

Count Dragula said:


> Come entertain us in person then, know it all big boy. We'll all be at the dike on May 3rd.


Are you threatening MC. Sounds like it to me, Count Dragqueen.


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## Mako232 (Sep 16, 2005)

Lanieka needs to switch to single ply


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## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

My money is on Bwuussee!!! :cheers: :rotfl:


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## jimtexas68 (May 13, 2012)

Some of you need to re-read Numbers 18. If you are not a believer than carry on with your lives.

http://www.enduringword.com/commentaries/0418.htm


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## txjustin (Jun 3, 2009)

Tortuga said:


> Personally...I like 'feel good' preachers....
> 
> Roll on, Joel....


X3 me too


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## kweber (Sep 20, 2005)

God and money....
older than Abraham.. fought over since.


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## fishin shallow (Jul 31, 2005)

Main Frame 8 said:


> Madoff had a talent too.


sad3sm


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## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

I don't think Dragula meant anything by his comment. But if he did, put all of your money on Bwuuussee.


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## Count Dragula (May 22, 2012)

shaggydog said:


> Are you threatening MC. Sounds like it to me, Count Dragqueen.


I wasn't talking to you dog. MC said he likes to entertain. so I want to see it. Is there a problem with that?


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## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

> MC said he likes to entertain. so I want to see it. Is there a problem with that?


Nah nothing wrong with that. I'll be there too, I hope. I'll help MC to entertain you. 

TH


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## Main Frame 8 (Mar 16, 2007)

Count Dragula said:


> I wasn't talking to you dog. MC said he likes to entertain. so I want to see it. Is there a problem with that?





Trouthunter said:


> Nah nothing wrong with that. I'll be there too, I hope. I'll help MC to entertain you.
> 
> TH


Dang, now I feel like I need to make a road trip.


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## K Man (Jun 21, 2012)

There seems to be a lot of some kind of wisdom here but mostly hate for JO. What I will say is each person doing a good job of slandering someone's name and it's mainly untrue gossip. I'm not going to do any arguing here but I have seen a many a man who slander not only Lakewood or the preachers but other churches and Pastors as well. These same people will have a loved one come down with a terminal illness or major turmoil in their life, will then be going to churches like Lakewood and wanting prayer because it's their last hope. And yes Joel and many other Pastors will accept them with open arms and pray for their well being. I have not read every post on here but I can assure you that most of what I have read is down right wrong. I may be the Lone Ranger here but I will stand up for the man and many alike him. Maybe all of you criticizes are right, the bible tells us; God will hold Pastors more accountable than others. if you're not well God still loves you! Blessings my friend!


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## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

Count Dragula said:


> I wasn't talking to you dog. MC said he likes to entertain. so I want to see it. Is there a problem with that?


it's all know how to do. I teach school pretty well.


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## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

K Man said:


> There seems to be a lot of some kind of wisdom here but mostly hate for JO. What I will say is each person doing a good job of slandering someone's name and it's mainly untrue gossip. I'm not going to do any arguing here but I have seen a many a man who slander not only Lakewood or the preachers but other churches and Pastors as well. These same people will have a loved one come down with a terminal illness or major turmoil in their life, will then be going to churches like Lakewood and wanting prayer because it's their last hope. And yes Joel and many other Pastors will accept them with open arms and pray for their well being. I have not read every post on here but I can assure you that most of what I have read is down right wrong. I may be the Lone Ranger here but I will stand up for the man and many alike him. Maybe all of you criticizes are right, the bible tells us; God will hold Pastors more accountable than others. if you're not well God still loves you! Blessings my friend!


I never met Joel, but I knew John fairly well and Dodi. As I said, they are very good people but also very good at what they do, which to me is raising money for church projects and themselves. John was a really funny guy. I would not speak a bad word against John or Dodi... ever.


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## Count Dragula (May 22, 2012)

Trouthunter said:


> Nah nothing wrong with that. I'll be there too, I hope. I'll help MC to entertain you.
> 
> TH


LOL... Are y'all in junior high? I didn't ask MC to meet me in a dark alley. Id just like to see if he behaves and says the things he does online in a public venue. I'd personally like to sit back and watch. That's why I used the words " know it all big man". I called it as I see it. I didn't call him a queen...


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## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

Count Dragula said:


> LOL... Are y'all in junior high? I didn't ask MC to meet me in a dark alley. Id just like to see if he behaves and says the things he does online in a public venue. I'd personally like to sit back and watch. That's why I used the words " know it all big man". I called it as I see it. I didn't call him a queen...


I'll give you money to call Trouhunter a "queen"... less if I think you can outrun him. LOL


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## Main Frame 8 (Mar 16, 2007)

Haute Pursuit said:


> I'll give you money to call Trouhunter a "queen"... less if I think you can outrun him. LOL


 Can TH beat a 9.2 forty?

I want to clarify before I crown him a queen. :cheers:


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## CoastalOutfitters (Aug 20, 2004)

big money in religion...........never been done before...................


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## K Man (Jun 21, 2012)

CoastalOutfitters said:


> big money in religion...........never been done before...................


Jim Baker did wrong no doubt! Here is what I like about what he did after it wasn't newsworthy. He admitted he did wrong, he did his time in the penetentry. Most wannabe men cannot even admit to themselves when they are wrong and ceartnly would not admit to the world they did wrong. There has been many men that have done far more worse than Jim Baker who never served a day in jail.


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## DA REEL DADDY (Jun 7, 2005)

I don't attend Lakewood nor have ever donate anything to Lakewood, if I did attend I would support the Church's programs, as long as I felt confident in their goals. I have, on many occasions, listened to John's and listen to Joel's sermons and homilies. 

I think they have done a great deal of good for a lot of people.


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## Count Dragula (May 22, 2012)

Haute Pursuit said:


> I'll give you money to call Trouhunter a "queen"... less if I think you can outrun him. LOL


I was referring to shaggy dog calling me a queen in comparison to what I said about mc. Wasn't directed at trout hunter ya goof
Enough of this already


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## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

Count Dragula said:


> I was referring to shaggy dog calling me a queen in comparison to what I said about mc. Wasn't directed at trout hunter ya goof
> Enough of this already


I'd still give you the money to do it! LOL


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## Count Dragula (May 22, 2012)

Ok deal...I have 9.2 covered
I'll have a beer waiting for him when he crosses the finish line.
The KING of beers that is...lol


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## tomtom83 (Oct 1, 2007)

Blk Jck 224 said:


> Suicide Tuesday...Scandelous Evangelist Wednesday...I can't wait to see what unfolds on Thursday. :bounce:


Hopefully the plane/treadmill thing again.


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## spuds (Jan 2, 2005)

There are many charity organizations in their hometown that are so overstretched and underfunded. If their focus was truly to be advocates for the poor and downtrodden, with the amount of money they are bringing in there should be a Lakewood Children's Hospital, or a Lakewood Homeless Shelter, or a Lakewood Battered Women's Center, something. 

A quick glance at their website shows that their main purpose instead, seems to be to bring more and more people into their church. Sounds like a cult.


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## kenny (May 21, 2004)

spuds said:


> There are many charity organizations in their hometown that are so overstretched and underfunded. If their focus was truly to be advocates for the poor and downtrodden, with the amount of money they are bringing in there should be a Lakewood Children's Hospital, or a Lakewood Homeless Shelter, or a Lakewood Battered Women's Center, something.
> 
> A quick glance at their website shows that their main purpose instead, seems to be to bring more and more people into their church. Sounds like a cult.


Bingo, I just bring the "good news brother". It's not church, it's entertainment. IMO


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## cubera (Mar 9, 2005)

spuds said:


> There are many charity organizations in their hometown that are so overstretched and underfunded. If their focus was truly to be advocates for the poor and downtrodden, with the amount of money they are bringing in there should be a Lakewood Children's Hospital, or a Lakewood Homeless Shelter, or a Lakewood Battered Women's Center, something.
> 
> A quick glance at their website shows that their main purpose instead, seems to be to bring more and more people into their church. Sounds like a cult.


Some people just seem to like being a part of something.

Don't know if any of your ever saw him, but years ago while watching late night TV on my big dish there used to be a guy in California who wore a "safari" outfit, pith helmet and all. He'd ramble on about various subjects and then he'd actually ask for donations because his Cadillac was a year old and he felt the need for a new one. He also used to sing something he called the "**** ant" song when was rattling the collection plate.
Something for everyone out there.


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## monkeyman1 (Dec 30, 2007)

Count Dragula said:


> I was referring to shaggy dog calling me a queen in comparison to what I said about mc. Wasn't directed at trout hunter ya goof
> Enough of this already


Don't worry about MC. He'll head to the dike and find himself in Dayton.


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## poppadawg (Aug 10, 2007)

spuds said:


> There are many charity organizations in their hometown that are so overstretched and underfunded. If their focus was truly to be advocates for the poor and downtrodden, with the amount of money they are bringing in there should be a Lakewood Children's Hospital, or a Lakewood Homeless Shelter, or a Lakewood Battered Women's Center, something.
> 
> A quick glance at their website shows that their main purpose instead, seems to be to bring more and more people into their church. Sounds like a cult.


With all the hunger and suffering in the world it is difficult in my mind to justify a man amassing a huge personal fortune off of religion. The complete opposite of Mother Theresa and vows of poverty. How much wealth does a man of god need?


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

Count Dragula said:


> I was referring to shaggy dog calling me a queen in comparison to what I said about mc. Wasn't directed at trout hunter ya goof
> Enough of this already


Sorry if I misinterperted what you were saying. Sounded to me like you were calling him out. My apologies.


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## Main Frame 8 (Mar 16, 2007)

Magic Kool-Aide for every $100 or higher donation.


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

Several people have come out in support of J.O. and flamed those that don't think he is a man of God. I cannot speak for others, but I base my statement on scripture. The first is Jesus instructions to his disciples found at Matthew 10:8,9 
8â€¯Cure sick people, raise up dead persons, make lepers clean, expel demons. YOU received free, give free. 9â€¯Do not procure gold or silver or copper for YOUR girdle purses,

There are many scriptures I could point to, but I will share one more. It is when Jesus entered the temple in Jerusalem. Matthew 21: 12-14 12â€¯And Jesus entered into the temple and threw out all those selling and buying in the temple, and overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves. 13â€¯And he said to them: â€œIt is written, â€˜My house will be called a house of prayer,â€™ but YOU are making it a cave of robbers.â€ 14â€¯Also, blind and lame persons came up to him in the temple, and he cured them.

If anyone is out there that is part of the congregation, please speak up and tell me what he has actually TAUGHT you about the truths of God's word. In my opinion he is one that "tickles the ears" of his flock.


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## salth2o (Sep 21, 2004)

Joel is not a preacher. Motivational speaker...maybe. Not a man of God as God intended. Looks like he is stuffing his pockets with that gold.

He and Victoria ranked 43rd in highest amount of taxes paid living in a 9.6 million dollar River Oaks home.

43 OSTEEN JOEL S & VICTORIA I 3960 Del Monte Drive Houston-Afton Oaks/River Oaks $195,427.81


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## Hullahopper (May 24, 2004)

salth2o said:


> Joel is not a preacher. Motivational speaker...maybe. Not a man of God as God intended. Looks like he is stuffing his pockets with that gold.
> 
> He and Victoria ranked 43rd in highest amount of taxes paid living in a 9.6 million dollar River Oaks home.
> 
> 43 OSTEEN JOEL S & VICTORIA I 3960 Del Monte Drive Houston-Afton Oaks/River Oaks $195,427.81


Just glad I don't have that property tax bill!


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## Leather (Oct 27, 2009)

FoghornLeghorn said:


> Joel Osteen didn't steal anything. He never once forced a person to give him money. All donations are made by adults of sound minds and disposing body.
> 
> He writes books that make people feel good and encourages them to do right and seek God. People buy the books, then he earns money from the sale. This seems pretty legit and honest to me...
> 
> Just because he makes a lot of money doesn't make him a thief. But calling him a thief DOES make you a jealous, self-righteous jerk off.


 Best reply yet. :work:


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## Blk Jck 224 (Oct 16, 2009)

shaggydog can't quite walk on water, but he has spent the night at a Holiday Inn Express before...LOL angelsm


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## JFolm (Apr 22, 2012)

Shaggy,

What's your opinion on Matthew 25:15-30?


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## S-3 ranch (May 26, 2004)

*You guys*



Leather said:


> Best reply yet. :work:


You guys are fools if you don't take j.o at face value as an entertainer , not a man of god , just a actor playing a role :rybka: open your minds not your bibles ! fools if you can't see it ,


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## S-3 ranch (May 26, 2004)

*Dang fool*



shaggydog said:


> Several people have come out in support of J.O. and flamed those that don't think he is a man of God. I cannot speak for others, but I base my statement on scripture. The first is Jesus instructions to his disciples found at Matthew 10:8,9
> 8â€¯Cure sick people, raise up dead persons, make lepers clean, expel demons. YOU received free, give free. 9â€¯Do not procure gold or silver or copper for YOUR girdle purses,
> 
> There are many scriptures I could point to, but I will share one more. It is when Jesus entered the temple in Jerusalem. Matthew 21: 12-14 12â€¯And Jesus entered into the temple and threw out all those selling and buying in the temple, and overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves. 13â€¯And he said to them: â€œIt is written, â€˜My house will be called a house of prayer,â€™ but YOU are making it a cave of robbers.â€ 14â€¯Also, blind and lame persons came up to him in the temple, and he cured them.
> ...


He is a actor you fool :rybka:


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

JFolm said:


> Shaggy,
> 
> What's your opinion on Matthew 25:15-30?


Sorry, I miss your point. First of all I don't think J.O has been given any talents. I think he uses the word of God to promote himself. The slaves that were given the talents (truths of God's word) were to use them to promote God's word. The story was to make believers (disciples). Two did, one did not. He knew the truths of God's word, but he hid them.

Sorry I think J.O. is out to make disciples for himself, not disciples of God. I do not think he preaches truths. I think he tickles the ears of his congregation, telling them what they want to hear. Several have called him a "feel good" preacher. That is probably a pretty good description. I would not call him a man of God. I think God despises people that use His word for personal gain.

Now you can get back to the subject at hand, which is J.O. I will not answer any more personal questions. If people are dumb enough to give them their money that is up to them.

These are just my opinions, but they are scripturally based


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## JFolm (Apr 22, 2012)

1. Do you not think 30mill is worthy of being considered a talent or two?


2. What way does he use the word of God for personal gain?


3. Do you feel like this about the youth pastors making $25k/year or only the wealthy guy?


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

JFolm said:


> 1. Do you not think 30mill is worthy of being considered a talent or two?
> 
> 2. What way does he use the word of God for personal gain?
> 
> 3. Do you feel like this about the youth pastors making $25k/year or only the wealthy guy?


The illustration Of the talents that Jesus used, was not about money, it was about the ministry and bringing in disciples. Sorry, you just don't get it.


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

Everybody seems to be equating 600K in a safe with 600K in Osteen's personal secret offshore bank account: heck, that was the week's income for the "business" of the church, too.... There's not many banks open to accept deposits on Sunday afternoon, so it stays somewhere else until monday morning: in this case, in a safe. Sure, it sounds like a lot, but anybody know what the light bill is in that building? How many full-time staff they employ? Maintenance costs? When you've got a building of that size and age to take care of, and an organization that big, we're probably really not talking about that much net money here...Sure, it adds up, but all the vitriol about 600K of "osteen's cash" being stolen is to some level misdirected.


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## waterwolf (Mar 6, 2005)

*Floats*

He doesn't force people into his church or force them to open their wallets. But he built it and they have come. Lakewood has gotten big and now they have big bills to pay. It take cash and it's seems theft have plenty..the old church location on East Houston rd was a site to be seen....your driving in an area that most folks have no business in and all of a sudden a huge church appears with flags from all nations flying...but that was back in the day before they spread their wings..I'm neutral.whatever floats your boat...we are all different and have different views...better than living in a place that tells you who to worship?


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## Blk Jck 224 (Oct 16, 2009)

shaggydog said:


> The illustration Of the talents that Jesus used, was not about money, it was about the ministry and bringing in disciples. Sorry, you just don't get it.


Jesus didn't need money as He had Celestial Powers. Joel O. has to pay for Victoria's wine and fish. Joel had to pay for his family's lasik, as he could not heal their visual issues with his own hands. Joel cannot walk on water, so he had to purchase a huge powerboat. Joel cannot heal Victoria of her evil spirits, so he hired the best and most expensive therapists. It is much more expensive to live in Houston than it was back in the day in Nazareth, especially for a young man lacking sorcery, and only a sliver tongue to get by on...Jus Sayin.


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## tec (Jul 20, 2007)

Google his income. What I found says he takes no salary or expenses from the church. Lives in the same house he has had for several years and drives an old car. He does have a nice income from his books.


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## salth2o (Sep 21, 2004)

salth2o said:


> Joel is not a preacher. Motivational speaker...maybe. Not a man of God as God intended. Looks like he is stuffing his pockets with that gold.
> 
> He and Victoria ranked 43rd in highest amount of taxes paid living in a 9.6 million dollar River Oaks home.
> 
> 43 OSTEEN JOEL S & VICTORIA I 3960 Del Monte Drive Houston-Afton Oaks/River Oaks $195,427.81





Hullahopper said:


> Just glad I don't have that property tax bill!





tec said:


> Google his income. What I found says he takes no salary or expenses from the church. Lives in the same house he has had for several years and drives an old car. He does have a nice income from his books.


The house he lives in is a $10 million River Oaks home. Not a meager abode as you infer. His old house was a $2.9 million shanty. 

I do not begrudge the man for his success. He is a great motivational, feel good speaker and has become very wealthy as a result. He can live as he chooses. I do not wish to follow a charlatan such as this.


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## Main Frame 8 (Mar 16, 2007)

dwilliams35 said:


> Everybody seems to be equating 600K in a safe with 600K in Osteen's personal secret offshore bank account: heck, that was the week's income for the "business" of the church, too.... There's not many banks open to accept deposits on Sunday afternoon, so it stays somewhere else until monday morning: in this case, in a safe. Sure, it sounds like a lot, but anybody know what the light bill is in that building? How many full-time staff they employ? Maintenance costs? When you've got a building of that size and age to take care of, and an organization that big, we're probably really not talking about that much net money here...Sure, it adds up, but all the vitriol about 600K of "osteen's cash" being stolen is to some level misdirected.


This thread hasn't been about the $600,000 since about post 3. LOL


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## Gottagofishin (Dec 17, 2005)

JFolm said:


> 1. Do you not think 30mill is worthy of being considered a talent or two?
> 
> 2. What way does he use the word of God for personal gain?
> 
> 3. Do you feel like this about the youth pastors making $25k/year or only the wealthy guy?


Just the wealthy ones. The youth pastor obviously isn't in it for the money.

I know a fellow who made several million in investment banking. Decided to chuck it in and become a pastor. He set up several charitable trusts and a personal trust to provide living expenses for a middle class lifestyle.

That's what I consider a man of God.


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## Yellowtail (Oct 11, 2008)

* 2 Corinthians 11:13-15 *

For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.

* Matthew 7:15-16 *

â€œBeware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?

* Hebrews 13:5-6 *

Keep your life free from love of money, and be content with what you have, for he has said, â€œI will never leave you nor forsake you.â€ So we can confidently say, â€œThe Lord is my helper; I will not fear; what can man do to me?â€


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

Main Frame 8 said:


> This thread hasn't been about the $600,000 since about post 3. LOL


 But they're still hammering the idea that it was a bunch of money that was just one step removed from Osteen's pocket.. Which was my point.


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## JFolm (Apr 22, 2012)

Thanks for skating around my questions Shaggy. I just don't understand why you are so bitter towards him.




Gotta go,

Do you not understand that he doesn't receive an income from the church?




Not everyone publicly donates. Some know they don't have to prove themselves to others.


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## goatchze (Aug 1, 2006)

Hullahopper said:


> Just glad I don't have that property tax bill!


Whoa, do you guys really have a 2.6% property tax rate? I'll quite complaining about the rates here in Brazos county now.


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## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

goatchze said:


> Whoa, do you guys really have a 2.6% property tax rate? I'll quite complaining about the rates here in Brazos county now.


It get's over 4% in some of the newer subdivisions. MUD's be expensive! :cop:


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## Gottagofishin (Dec 17, 2005)

JFolm said:


> Thanks for skating around my questions Shaggy. I just don't understand why you are so bitter towards him.
> 
> Gotta go,
> 
> ...


I totally get that he doesn't draw a salary from the church. However, he certainly has used his position to profit through other means.

There are other question that I would want to know to have a real opinion. For example, many churches provide a parsonage or housing allowance for their pastors. Is his house in River Oaks being paid for by the church? What about his cars? Drivers?, entertainment allowance, etc. There are lot's of ways to enhance your lifestyle using an organization than drawing a salary.

I don't know the answer to these questions, but these are things that are not uncommon. You'd have to really do some digging to understand just how much he actually benefits financially from Lakewood. I'm sure the actual numbers are well hidden.

Don't get me wrong, I don't begrudge him his success. I'm sure he works hard for it and I admire his business sense. He's just not the type I look to for spiritual leadership. He's too much like the people I deal with all week long.


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## JFolm (Apr 22, 2012)

I'm just saying this guy has 40k people that come to see him preach. You may not like the way he preaches and that's perfectly fine. But someone should give me some facts as to why he is not a godly man. Opinions don't count.


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## kenny (May 21, 2004)

Gottagofishin said:


> I totally get that he doesn't draw a salary from the church. However, he certainly has used his position to profit through other means.
> 
> There are other question that I would want to know to have a real opinion. For example, many churches provide a parsonage or housing allowance for their pastors. Is his house in River Oaks being paid for by the church? What about his cars? Drivers?, entertainment allowance, etc. There are lot's of ways to enhance your lifestyle using an organization than drawing a salary.
> 
> ...


Yeah, but at your job you can water board them! :rotfl:


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## Gottagofishin (Dec 17, 2005)

JFolm said:


> I'm just saying this guy has 40k people that come to see him preach. You may not like the way he preaches and that's perfectly fine. But someone should give me some facts as to why he is not a godly man. Opinions don't count.


Only God and his CPA can give you the facts. All you and I have is our opinions.


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## Gottagofishin (Dec 17, 2005)

kenny said:


> Yeah, but at your job you can water board them! :rotfl:


We don't know what actually goes on in the bowels of the Summit.


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## Slip (Jul 25, 2006)

Wow, someone steals from a church and the pastor gets blasted over it and deservs it? Like him or not, the people of the church got stolen from, not the pastor/preacher. Maybe it was money that would have helped someone in need, a mission on the missions field or other place that may now not get the money needed to reach people in need. Sounds more like an oportunity to blast this preacher.


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## Blk Jck 224 (Oct 16, 2009)

slip knot said:


> Wow, someone steals from a church and the pastor gets blasted over it and deservs it? Like him or not, the people of the church got stolen from, not the pastor/preacher. Maybe it was money that would have helped someone in need, a mission on the missions field or other place that may now not get the money needed to reach people in need. Sounds more like an oportunity to blast this preacher.


Really...God forbid a thread ever gets hijacked or railroaded around this place...GEEZZZ!


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## txgoddess (Sep 21, 2007)

Blk Jck 224 said:


> Really...God forbid a thread ever gets hijacked or railroaded around this place...GEEZZZ!


That never happens. It would be like seeing Big Foot riding a unicorn with the Loch Ness monster on a stringer.


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## AcFixer (Mar 7, 2011)

We have been members of Lakewood Church since 2005, and I have served as an Usher for past 3 years or so. I know everyone doesn't agree with Joel's preaching, and that's ok. I don't agree with any and everyone I hear too. But I will give you a little of my personal testimony.

When we first started attending Lakewood I did so entirely to please my wife. She wanted and needed it for our marriage to get on the right track after years of me doing wrong. So I begrudgingly went and didn't pay much attention. One night Joel was preaching a sermon that had to be a message to his distractors and those who criticize him for making money. He asked a general question - how many people in attendance have children? Do you want the best for children - for them to be blessed in their health, blessed in their relationships, blessed in their finances? Or do you want them to always struggle to pay bills, have abusive relationships? Of course no one wants their children to be poor and not have enough. We want our kids to be blessed and prosperous in everything they do. So why is it so difficult to believe your Heavenly Father doesn't want the best for you? 

After hearing this I was completely changed in my thinking. There is absolutely nothing wrong with expecting and receiving God's blessings. If you choose to live your life poor, broke and depressed then you may do so. But all that will make you is poor, broke and depressed. I would rather be happy, prosperous and blessed in my life. I can't believe that God would create me and give me the desires of my heart, and not want me to achieve them. The same holds true for Joel Osteen.


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## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

slip knot said:


> Wow, someone steals from a church and the pastor gets blasted over it and deservs it? Like him or not, the people of the church got stolen from, not the pastor/preacher. Maybe it was money that would have helped someone in need, a mission on the missions field or other place that may now not get the money needed to reach people in need. Sounds more like an oportunity to blast this preacher.


Nobody is blaming Osteen for the loss. Many people just don't like Osteen because he comes off as phony and insincere, and because he teaches prosperity theology.

He's become extremely rich on God's back.


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## Country Boy (Aug 15, 2008)

Suckers are born every day. I hardly think any preacher is going to talk me out of my hard earned cash. Ya'll keep on giving to him is all I can tell you, it's your money. My money goes to my family. I keep hearing "well it goes to support missionaries". Are you serious! I could care less about what a missionary does.


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## JFolm (Apr 22, 2012)

mastercylinder said:


> He's become extremely rich on God's back.


How's that?


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## Slip (Jul 25, 2006)

I have no problem being a sucker. I have never given to this church and can't say 
I know a whole lot about this church, but I do give to my own home church as well as other needs outside of my church. It never ceases to amaze me how I keep being blessed with more and more. Not just in finances, but in all aspects of life. I am more than happy being labeled one of these suckers. I am not rich in finances, but have done pretty well over the years. I give, I save, and I live. Just don't need much more than that.


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## essayons75 (May 15, 2006)

mastercylinder said:


> Nobody is blaming Osteen for the loss. Many people just don't like Osteen because he comes off as phony and insincere, and because he teaches prosperity theology.
> 
> *He's become extremely rich on God's back*.


MC - Tell us of this God of which you speak. :tongue:


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## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

essayons75 said:


> MC - Tell us of this God of which you speak. :tongue:


The one that has made Joel Osteen so rich.



JFolm said:


> How's that?


You're kidding, right?


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## AcFixer (Mar 7, 2011)

mastercylinder said:


> Nobody is blaming Osteen for the loss. Many people just don't like Osteen because he comes off as phony and insincere, and because he teaches prosperity theology.
> 
> *He's become extremely rich on God's back*.


So he's no different than any the rest of us. Everything we have is on God's back. And the gift of Jesus on the cross. Without Him we have nothing, including life itself. How can you condemn Joel for making more of his life then you or someone else has? Each and everyone of us have the same opportunity to get out and make the most of life. Some work harder than others, some educate themselves more than others, some are blessed to lead others in ways we may not understand. There is no reason to believe God doesn't want the best for each and every one of us in all good areas of lives - including our finances.


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## fishingcacher (Mar 29, 2008)

Our citizenship is in heaven and not on this earth. God will ultimately judge everyone. Those that are entrusted with leading will be held accountable. We are to focus on things with eternal value not temporal value.


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## sotexhookset (Jun 4, 2011)

mastercylinder said:


> Nobody is blaming Osteen for the loss. Many people just don't like Osteen because he comes off as phony and insincere, and because he teaches prosperity theology.
> 
> He's become extremely rich on God's back.


Dam. I actually agree with mc on something. When I give its to someone in need with discretion and anonymity. That means, when I can, I don't give a dime to someone that ask for it or lives in a 20,000 SF home. And i mean anyone. Just saying.


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## Portside (Jun 21, 2007)

sotexhookset said:


> Dam. I actually agree with mc on something. When I give its to someone in need with discretion and anonymity. That means, when I can, I don't give a dime to someone that ask for it or lives in a 20,000 SF home. And i mean anyone. Just saying.


He receives no salary from Lakewood. He did get a $13M advance for his first book though. When people give of their own freewill to Lakewood, it's not going to Joel Olsteen's pocket. They use the money to support the huge building, broadcasting globally, and missionary work. Just curious, but does anyone know what is the "right size" for a church? I'm pretty sure settlers in the old west would think even today's modest churches are over the top. In most large cities in the U.S. there are mega-churches, and most of them are led by inspirational speakers. I can't fault Joel for doing what he does very well, which is inspire many, many people. As long as he doesn't live like a prince on the church's money, I have no problem with him.


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## poppadawg (Aug 10, 2007)

Never trust a rich preacher or a skinny chef.


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## DCAVA (Aug 5, 2013)

The man and his family have been blessed by God for their spreading of his word. nuff said....


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## KeeperTX (Jul 8, 2013)

Nope.


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

Well, I personally find the guy kind of annoying, I have serious problems with his particular version of theology in general, and I do find the commercialism somewhat over the top.... That being said, the guy has arguably caused more people to crack a bible open than anybody since Billy Graham. That's got to count for something...


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## TheSamarai (Jan 20, 2005)

People says that he doesnt get a salary so I wonder how is the money managed in his church. I assume he is the owner of the church and so it goes ultimatley into his account. When I give to my church it goes to help the catholic school, pays the priest a salary (the priest drives a camry and lives in aresidence with a couple of other priest), money set aside for the diocese to do different projects throughout the year, maintains the grounds of the church.


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## txgoddess (Sep 21, 2007)

TheSamarai said:


> People says that he doesnt get a salary so I wonder how is the money managed in his church. I assume he is the owner of the church and so it goes ultimatley into his account. When I give to my church it goes to help the catholic school, pays the priest a salary (the priest drives a camry and lives in aresidence with a couple of other priest), money set aside for the diocese to do different projects throughout the year, maintains the grounds of the church.


I've never known a church to have an "owner." Most have boards or committees and many that are a part of a larger body are controlled by them. If the church disbands, their assets go to the association.


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## tcbayman (Apr 27, 2006)

I met him a few years back at the rodeo. Him and I am guessing his wife sat right behind me. He was very down to earth and normal. He was trying to keep a low profile, and he almost made through the whole show before people started to recognize him. I never really watched any of his sermons, but just the little bit I talked to him, he seemed alright to me. Changed my overall opinion of the man, because like others I always felt that he commercialized religion for his own personal gain.


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## Tortuga (May 21, 2004)

KeeperTX said:


> Nope.


Sounds like your man is on to something.....NOT....:headknock

http://www.angelfire.com/planet/ramshorn/studies/macarthurism.htm


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## TheSamarai (Jan 20, 2005)

but wasnt that church started by Mr. Osteem. wouldnt he be the entity that ultimately owns the church? Kinda of like some of the Buddhist temples I know in which the Monk owns the temple.


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

TheSamarai said:


> People says that he doesnt get a salary so I wonder how is the money managed in his church. I assume he is the owner of the church and so it goes ultimatley into his account. When I give to my church it goes to help the catholic school, pays the priest a salary (the priest drives a camry and lives in aresidence with a couple of other priest), money set aside for the diocese to do different projects throughout the year, maintains the grounds of the church.


 It's a nonprofit corporation, the board is all family members. He apparently personally has a "negative" cash flow with them, foregoing his own salary and donating some of the book proceeds: that being said, it's still essentially a family corporation and I would assume he's ultimately got his name on some assets as a result. Meanwhile, they do support mission trips, outreach programs, all the usual suspects of any standard church. Plus maintenance and in all likelihood debt service on a heckuva big facility..


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## txgoddess (Sep 21, 2007)

TheSamarai said:


> but wasnt that church started by Mr. Osteem. wouldnt he be the entity that ultimately owns the church? Kinda of like some of the Buddhist temples I know in which the Monk owns the temple.


No. The church has a board of directors. He may be a founder, but he does not own the church. The non-profit entity does.


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## Cbrown85 (Mar 14, 2014)

bubbas kenner said:


> I think the FBI will do a shake down sunday am.See who ain't there as well.We all have our own sins to worry about let the chips fall where they may.


X2!!


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## AcFixer (Mar 7, 2011)

Ya'll know that Joel's brother Paul is a surgeon who Lakewood sends to other countries to do medical work on children and others needing it? I saw video of him operating in Haiti after the big earthquake. 

I asked someone one time why they don't set up a facility like that in Houston and perform free medical work the way they do in other countries. I was told that governmental regulations keep them from doing it that way here. Not sure of the particulars but it's what i was told. Sad that people who need medical work can't get it for free because the government has to regulate it, but other countries welcome the same free care with open arms.


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## TranTheMan (Aug 17, 2009)

AcFixer said:


> I was told that governmental regulations keep them from doing it that way here. Not sure of the particulars but it's what i was told.


And the lawyers.


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## TheSamarai (Jan 20, 2005)

non profit, lol.


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## Blk Jck 224 (Oct 16, 2009)

txgoddess said:


> No. The church has a board of directors. He may be a founder, but he does not own the church. The non-profit entity does.





TheSamarai said:


> non profit, lol.


Yeah...The Memorial Hermann Healthcare System is non-profit too...LOL


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## Portside (Jun 21, 2007)

Blk Jck 224 said:


> Yeah...The Memorial Hermann Healthcare System is non-profit too...LOL


....and that would be because it's part of the UT Health Science centers largest medical teaching school. Why would a government agency be "for profit?"


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## Blk Jck 224 (Oct 16, 2009)

Portside said:


> ....and that would be because it's part of the UT Health Science centers largest medical teaching school. Why would a government agency be "for profit?"


Memorial Hospital System is not a government agency. They are affiliated with UT. They bought Hermann just for the name, & they make plenty of money.


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## Tortuga (May 21, 2004)

Blk Jck 224 said:


> Memorial Hospital System is not a government agency. They are affiliated with UT. They bought Hermann just for the name, & they make plenty of money.


_"The largest not-for-profit health system in Southeast Texas, Memorial Hermann has 12 hospitals and numerous specialty programs and services conveniently located throughout the Greater Houston area."


_


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## Portside (Jun 21, 2007)

MH derives their non-profit status as a result of being a subordinate of the UTHSC Medical School, although not legislative government agency. Their mission is to run a balanced non-profit for under served population and education.


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## gettinspooled (Jun 26, 2013)

Sure is alot of hate coming out of here for a guy that just wants people to be positive minded and remind people that Jesus loves them. What has he ever done to any of these haters that makes them wish ill will upon him or to suspect that these are ill gotten gains?

How many people do you think have taken Joel's message and found Jesus? 
How many people have you brought to Jesus? How many people have you even told about Jesus?

Who cares how much money he has?

Is it not in the ten commandments "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ***, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's."? 

Sounds like there is alot of jealousy going on about what he has. You should atleast listen to his message before you accuse him of anything or find that he is not truly holy enough to meet your requirements.


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## gettinspooled (Jun 26, 2013)

shaggydog said:


> Sorry, I miss your point. First of all I don't think J.O has been given any talents. I think he uses the word of God to promote himself. The slaves that were given the talents (truths of God's word) were to use them to promote God's word. The story was to make believers (disciples). Two did, one did not. He knew the truths of God's word, but he hid them.
> 
> Sorry I think J.O. is out to make disciples for himself, not disciples of God. I do not think he preaches truths. I think he tickles the ears of his congregation, telling them what they want to hear. Several have called him a "feel good" preacher. That is probably a pretty good description. I would not call him a man of God. *I think God despises *people that use His word for personal gain.
> 
> ...


What is your basis on stating that he is using God's word for his own personal gain? I doubt you have anything like facts to back this statement up given that it is entirely subjective to your opinion.

I would like for you to present an example of him not preaching the truth.

So what is the limit set by the scripture about how much money a preacher should earn?

Lastly when did you become so inclined that you can personally think for God?


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