# update on county commisioner vs game warden



## fishhawkxxx (Jul 7, 2012)

this is an update on the upshur co. commisioner (ex) who dis-armed a game warden. He got 5 years probation, son's trial has not come up yet


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## Backwater1 (Apr 25, 2013)

What did he end up getting charged with? 5 years probabation seems pretty light for holding a GW at gunpoint, right?


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## fishhawkxxx (Jul 7, 2012)

I don't recall exact wording, but it was on this morn.( 10/12/2013) news.Google is your friend


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## fishhawkxxx (Jul 7, 2012)

article can be seen at longview morning journal


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## the hook (Aug 8, 2011)

Backwater1 said:


> What did he end up getting charged with? 5 years probabation seems pretty light for holding a GW at gunpoint, right?


Quite a few other little tidbits in there too...No gun EVER again stands out...


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## Raven (Jan 22, 2009)

http://www.news-journal.com/news/po...cle_673d3e8a-c6ed-57b3-b1bf-5d407d6cd405.html


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## bluefin (Aug 16, 2005)

You think the game warden had a little support from his fellow wardens?








"in 115th District Court where at least 25 game wardens filled the room."


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## bluefin (Aug 16, 2005)

And fishhawkxxx,
Thanks for the update.


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## M16 (May 28, 2008)

bluefin said:


> You think the game warden had a little support from his fellow wardens?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I hope they weren't getting paid for sitting around.


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## JFolm (Apr 22, 2012)

M16 said:


> I hope they weren't getting paid for sitting around.


Of course they were.


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## Jacinto (Sep 14, 2013)

Yeah, you don't really OWN anything in this country, they just let you rent it.


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## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

The events of the story are interesting, very interesting, but also stupid.


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## Backwater1 (Apr 25, 2013)

M16 said:


> I hope they weren't getting paid for sitting around.


No lie. I was wondering the same myself. Upshur County has like 4 wardens. Where do the other 21 come into play?

The whole scenario is weird on both sides.


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## Soapeddler (Jun 18, 2006)

Anger management classes? Dude ought to be put in the looney bin..

A Texas Game Warden has more power to enter private property than a police officer or DPS from what I've been told. No warrant needed. Just probable cause.


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## BadBob (Dec 16, 2010)

I'm not sure I understand what he did wrong? just because your a leo doesnt give you the right to do whatever, it seems he just wanted another leo there to diffuse the situation


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## 4thbreak (May 20, 2005)

BadBob said:


> I'm not sure I understand what he did wrong? just because your a leo doesnt give you the right to do whatever, it seems he just wanted another leo there to diffuse the situation


I don't see anything wrong with what he or his son did up until the point the GW notified himself as a GW. The GW had an unmarked truck and was driving his four wheeler around with a camo jacket on. But they took it way to far to disarm a unformed GW once both parties were properly identify.


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## BadBob (Dec 16, 2010)

just cause you have a uniform dont mean chit 
look at the guy that broke some chicks face


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## 4thbreak (May 20, 2005)

BadBob said:


> just cause you have a uniform dont mean chit
> look at the guy that broke some chicks face


I'm with you on that. Anyone in uniform could be an imposter. I saw one the other day that even had a decked out police car to really fool some people. Everything looked legit down to lights, sirens and decals. He wasn't fooling me though.


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## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

*Say What?*



4thbreak said:


> I don't see anything wrong with what he or his son did up until the point the GW notified himself as a GW. The GW had an unmarked truck and was driving his four wheeler around with a camo jacket on. But they took it way to far to disarm a unformed GW once both parties were properly identify.


Maybe you read a different article than I did, but it says "At about 1:30 p.m. Oct. 6, 2012, Bailey unloaded his four-wheeler, pulled by a marked state truck..."

So he was in his "marked" state truck, not an unmarked one as you stated.

I think the guy got off easy.

TH


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## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

> I hope they weren't getting paid for sitting around.


Game Wardens get days off too.

TH


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## the hook (Aug 8, 2011)

Article says a "marked state truck"....Father/son went a little too far...If not for the state vehicle, OK, but then ID would suffice...I could see them stopping the "guy", but then it was obvious(my take, by accounts) that he was a warden...


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## Backwater1 (Apr 25, 2013)

Trouthunter said:


> Game Wardens get days off too.
> 
> TH


Guaranteed 25 state paid fuel cards were swiped for that trip.

I am a warden fan, but I don't get the point of having 25 wardens who had nothing to do with the case being in attendance.


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## BadBob (Dec 16, 2010)

intimidation ??? 
actually reminds me of a time my mom rented from a state trooper and he didnt want to pay back the deposit for bs reasoning
I personally helped clean carpets and what not 
Momma took it to small claims and he showed up in uniform and judge told him that dont mean chit pay the lady


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

Soapeddler said:


> Anger management classes? Dude ought to be put in the looney bin..
> 
> A Texas Game Warden has more power to enter private property than a police officer or DPS from what I've been told. No warrant needed. Just probable cause.


 So what's the probable cause?

"At about 1:30 p.m. Oct. 6, 2012, Bailey unloaded his four-wheeler, pulled by a marked state truck, and rode it under a pipe rail fence onto Lloyd Crabtreeâ€™s property at the end of Dial Road in Big Sandy to patrol the area to inspect for possible hunters and to look for possible deer blinds where hunters might come in the future"

I really don't see anything there that he had any hint that there was a crime in progress.


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## the hook (Aug 8, 2011)

dwilliams35 said:


> So what's the probable cause?
> 
> "At about 1:30 p.m. Oct. 6, 2012, Bailey unloaded his four-wheeler, pulled by a marked state truck, and rode it under a pipe rail fence onto Lloyd Crabtreeâ€™s property at the end of Dial Road in Big Sandy to patrol the area to inspect for possible hunters and to look for possible deer blinds where hunters might come in the future"
> 
> I really don't see anything there that he had any hint that there was a crime in progress.


I don't think they need probable cause...If there is or was hunting/fishing etc on the property, they have authority to look, regardless of when...I'm no lawyer though...


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## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

> but I don't get the point of having 25 wardens who had nothing to do with the case being in attendance.


Support.

TH


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## Backwater1 (Apr 25, 2013)

Trouthunter said:


> Support.
> 
> TH


Support of what? I can understand a couple, but 25? Come on.


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## Josh5 (Jun 27, 2007)

When this first came out, there was a really good thread about this incident. Sounded to me that the commissioner is an idiot, and the GW is a bigger idiot with a Barney Fife attitude, if I am remembering correctly. 

The detail that was not mentioned at that time was that Crabtree parked by his GW truck and then went looking for him. Back then they made it sound like they just happened to find him on their property. 

If TXPWD would fire the GW that would be a nice jester as well. From that previous thread, I think they have many complaints on him. 

Once an officer says who he is, you had better watch your step. Any LEO can make things look whatever way they want to after the fact. Bailey was quoted as saying he was looking for poachers. really, at 1:30pm??? The earlier articles also said these two had previous run ins with each other. There was history with these two.


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## Hal Westberry (Apr 18, 2011)

*Going to far*

Did the GW not know the owners phone number or address? Sounds like a set up to me, just to start trouble. Lucky nobody got shot! Do the FEDs really need that much power over law abiding citizens? Remember GW put there pants on just like everybody else. Just my two cents 
HHW


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## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

> If TXPWD would fire the GW that would be a nice jester as well. From that previous thread, I think they have many complaints on him.


So you think he's a bad Warden because of what you read here? LOL!



> Did the GW not know the owners phone number or address? Sounds like a set up to me, just to start trouble. Lucky nobody got shot! Do the FEDs really need that much power over law abiding citizens? Remember GW put there pants on just like everybody else. Just my two cents


Well so far the ex commissioner took a plea deal and apologized so I'm thinking he knows more than you do about what happened as probably do everyone who was there.

TH


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## Rack Ranch (May 25, 2004)

Don't know what you guys are arguing about??? It has already been in the court system and in front of a judge. It doesn't matter what you think, the hammer has fallen, no conspiracy theory here....


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## Backwater1 (Apr 25, 2013)

Trouthunter said:


> So you think he's a bad Warden because of what you read here? LOL!
> 
> Well so far the ex commissioner took a plea deal and apologized so I'm thinking he knows more than you do about what happened as probably do everyone who was there.
> 
> TH


Well if the GW and commissioner have a history, I would think that might weigh a little with public opinion, no matter whether the gavel has dropped or not.

GW was totally legal in his actions, but something doesn't smell right all the way around.

I wonder what the ex-commish's real story is.


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## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

You know what I know, what I read. He took a deal and plead guilty, can't own a firearm anymore and apologized.

If the ex commissioner wasn't guilty he should have let a jury decide his fate.

TH


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## Flat Trout (Aug 2, 2011)

Hal Westberry said:


> Did the GW not know the owners phone number or address? Sounds like a set up to me, just to start trouble. Lucky nobody got shot! Do the FEDs really need that much power over law abiding citizens? Remember GW put there pants on just like everybody else. Just my two cents
> HHW


Hahaha....last time I looked, TX game wardens were not FEDS:headknock:headknock:headknock


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## TheRooster (Jul 15, 2012)

bluefin said:


> You think the game warden had a little support from his fellow wardens?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wonder how many dink trout and rat reds were taken this day haha

keep your booger hook off the bang switch!  now Free


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## Backwater1 (Apr 25, 2013)

Trouthunter said:


> You know what I know, what I read. He took a deal and plead guilty, can't own a firearm anymore and apologized.
> 
> If the ex commissioner wasn't guilty he should have let a jury decide his fate.
> 
> TH


I agree. Sometimes the plea bargain is the best bet when you start taking the risk of prison time, no matter whether you are guilty or not.

Gotta admit though, the cards are already stacked against you no matter what when you are against the state or state official. I would imagine that may be why the GW presence was so high.


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## Jacinto (Sep 14, 2013)

If you take it before a jury, there's a VERY good chance you'll be in front of a bunch of folks who see a uniform and automatically bow down and submit. Go to the airport and watch people run their OWN CHILDREN through scanners and TSA pat-downs. Good chance all 6 or 12 of your jurors will be those people.

I don't know the details of this case, only what the article says, which, you know. The guy who pled out, he knew what he was doing. Maybe wanted to make a point, or was caught up in the moment. Saddest thing is, he's got to be REAL careful about possessing a firearm now and if he's busted with one he's probably looking at a good stretch in a cage.


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## bigfishtx (Jul 17, 2007)

There was a game warden down in our area, that got caught poaching while he was still employed, and, is known to be a big time poacher still.

Just saying.

I don't know much of anything about this case, sounds like the commish was a little overboard on this.

I know most of the game wardens I meet are pretty good guys.


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## jpl7522 (May 11, 2011)

M16 is that really what you think? I bet you wouldn't say that if they were sitting around protecting you or your family.


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## M16 (May 28, 2008)

jpl7522 said:


> M16 is that really what you think? I bet you wouldn't say that if they were sitting around protecting you or your family.


Of course it is. Exactly what are they protecting? This was a plea bargain not even a trail. There is a bailiff in every courtroom. Somebody needs to be fired for wasting the states money. Were they on duty and did they drive state vehicles? Like I'm gonna get 25 police officers to protect me and my family? I'll do that myself. Intimidation is the only reason and has no place in law enforcement. Had there been a trail he would have probably walked free.


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## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

I agree that there is probably more to the story than we are reading. It would have been healthier for the County Commissioner to complain to the GW's boss if the GW was out of line. Disarming the GW was too much. Or the County Commissioner could have had a very direct face to face discussion with the GW. But pointing a gun at him after knowing he was a GW and disarming him? You can't win that.


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## Classic73Montauk (May 2, 2010)

Soapeddler said:


> A Texas Game Warden has more power to enter private property than a police officer or DPS from what I've been told. No warrant needed. Just probable cause.


Not true. They must abide by the same rules as all LEO's.


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## fishhawkxxx (Jul 7, 2012)

local rumor has it as a conspiracy (small town politics) against an ex commisioner.The story in the paper is not at all what locals are saying. Locals say Mr. crabtree walked upon a man in camo that had his son at gun point???? and it went a little too far.What would you have done???? The paper stated the g.w. had a camo jacket over his uniform, who in the hell wears a coat in the sumer time in texas?????? Only the shadow knows!!!


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## MEGABITE (May 21, 2004)

Update:

GILMER, Texas â€” 
The son of a former East Texas county commissioner has been sentenced to probation for holding a state game warden at gunpoint.


A state judge sentenced Todd Crabtree in Gilmer to two years of probation Tuesday after he pleaded guilty to unlawful restraint of a peace officer. In a letter entered into the record, Crabtree apologized to for disarming the game warden.


Earlier this month, his father, former Upshur County commissioner Lloyd Allen Crabtree, received five years of probation for his guilty plea to taking a firearm from a peace officer.


The incident happened when the state game warden checking for hunting law violations on private land was disarmed and held by the Crabtrees.
Gilmer is about 110 miles east of Dallas.


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## Rack Ranch (May 25, 2004)

Hmm I wonder if I could take a cops gun away and hold him at gun point and only get 2 years probation?


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## Rubberback (Sep 9, 2008)

Rack Ranch said:


> Hmm I wonder if I could take a cops gun away and hold him at gun point and only get 2 years probation?


 If you are rich.


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## fishhawkxxx (Jul 7, 2012)

or maybe if you were raised in a non regulatory county (county comm. regulated game laws)???????


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## monkeyman1 (Dec 30, 2007)

It sounds like the Crabtrees might have had a valid complaint, but the way they handled the situation pretty much toasted their chances of anyone listening to them.

No probable cause was stated for the GW entering gated property. The Crabtrees should not have held him at gunpoint. They should have recorded the conversation or videoed the activities (or both), then built a solid complaint against the GW. The guy with the badge will almost always win the battle, maybe not the war though.


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## "The Marshall" (Jan 12, 2005)

Classic73Montauk said:


> Not true. They must abide by the same rules as all LEO's.


Federal game wardens dont have to. State game wardens do.


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## bigfishtx (Jul 17, 2007)

"The Marshall" said:


> Federal game wardens dont have to. State game wardens do.


The constitution may disagree with you on that. Illegal search and seizure is no bueno by any law enforcement officer.

This is an age old arguement. But I can tell you most game wardens will not enter a premises unless they think a law is being violated.

Good article about it here:

http://www.statesman.com/news/sports/leggett-game-wardens-powers-shrouded-in-mystery/nSspp/


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## texas bohunk (Dec 10, 2010)

*Game Wardens*

Looks like this was all of the Game Wardens in East Texas!!! I wonder who was patrolling for game violations?


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## Classic73Montauk (May 2, 2010)

"The Marshall" said:


> Federal game wardens dont have to. State game wardens do.


I do not agree.

Are you saying, without exigent circumstances, a LEO Federal or otherwise can enter your home without a search warrant and search it?

What they can do is....approach your camp, ask to go inside and look, if you refuse, and they have PC, they can deny you entry the house (so you dont destroy evidence..) until they can call and get a warrant.


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