# Pass at Keith Lake



## keithlake (Dec 8, 2009)

I hope this baffle idea is not the death of some very good fishing in Keith/Johnson/Salt & the entire chain of these lakes. Who's idea is this? http://www.beaumontenterprise.com/n...salt-water-at-Keith-5806347.php#photo-6965078


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## dukhunter (Aug 30, 2007)

First a new boat ramp with no road to get to it and now the GLO wants to restrict the water going in and out of the lake. These are political geniuses at work! It wasn't broke, leave it alone! Who is set to gain from this "plan"? Anyone out there have any better insight to the planned demise for Keith Lake? Yes I am highly offended that this has taken place! I am mad at myself for not reading the fine print in the Beaumont Enterprise to have seen the meeting schedule, there should have been one posted.:hairout::hairout:


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## colbyntx (Jul 18, 2013)

You vote for that Andy???


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## JFolm (Apr 22, 2012)

Arghhh... Good fishing or outstanding duck hunting?!?!?!?


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## keithlake (Dec 8, 2009)

colbyntx said:


> You vote for that Andy???


Dead water all over except for what little water can pass through the rock wier


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## colbyntx (Jul 18, 2013)

Bad news!


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## RedXCross (Aug 7, 2005)

Its not good news at all, County comm. and GLO, go figure ,I remember the month it was open! 
I could go on a Rant , to no avail, so I may say a few things that will get me in trouble. I have mellowed a LIL.
I watched them have a looky at it several times, I knew potentially they were gonna do something it took a few years and boom!


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## dukhunter (Aug 30, 2007)

Its a shame that none of us had a say in this program. Conspiracy theories abound who has the most to gain out of this? How does the GLO and all other agencies know whats best for those of us that use the lake? If in fact they are setting the table to make this a duck hunting only piece of property and eliminate the fishing maybe they should start marking the safe routes now. With all of the shell and mud flats that exist there are bound to be issues. Only time will tell just what will happen to the lake but restricting the flow can only lead to less water over time. When the wiers got put in off the intercoastal that was just the first step in choking out the lake. Now according to this article in the Beaumont Enterprise this plan of action is to reduce the flow of water, would one of our esteemed politicians, GLO personel, or TPW please step up and explain to us who use this body of water just how this is going to help and what it is that needs to be protected. Just wondering what's next.


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## tokavi (May 6, 2006)

The thought process is that Keith Lake and the water bodies off of it were mostly freshwater before the Intracoastal and the pass were built. They want to restore it to freshwater so the structures were put in place inthe ICW and the pass is next.


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## ddakota (Jun 28, 2009)

Ask Big Lake (Calcasieu Lake) guides how much the fishing was hurt there by putting weirs in the mouths of the 5 bayous that flowed into the lake on the east side. Same thing - cut down salt water intrusion into 10s of thousands of acres of marsh over there. It's not a death sentence, give it time and you will like it. Reserve your place in the mouth of the cut in the fall for some fantastic red fishing. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Trouthappy (Jun 12, 2008)

Keith Lake used to be a *lot *better with wiers, than it is now. That big drainage channel was a huge mistake widely acknowledged 20 years ago. One cold front, and the outgoing tide sucks Keith Lake too low to fish or hunt. Salinity lately has been too high, also. It used to be a haven for crabs, shrimp and redfish with lower salinity. Also duck hunting. We used to shoot ducks back in there that the Houston crowd could only dream of. Not any more, it's a mess back in there.


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## RedXCross (Aug 7, 2005)

True Tony,

My thoughts were if they would have replaced what's been damaged (wier) at the channel then it would accomplish a lot more than chunking a butt ton of rocks down there and hope for the best.

Joe,

I agree, to an extent, but now the damage has been done.
Now what. React or over react? To be honest with you, the fishing hasn't been hurt. Just going off my own observations



tokavi said:


> The thought process is that Keith Lake and the water bodies off of it were mostly freshwater before the Intracoastal and the pass were built. They want to restore it to freshwater so the structures were put in place inthe ICW and the pass is next.


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## Trouthappy (Jun 12, 2008)

Seems like some old-fashioned wooden wiers wouldn't cost much. And the lake system wouldn't be sucked nearly dry with a big cold front. Heck, string 2-3 wiers across that fish pass and slow the water down. Those lakes would be seriously full of shrimp and crab like the old days. They want to bring in granite boulders from central Texas, and set them on the mud banks? Man, I don't know about that. They could drive in pilings and string up wiers at a fraction of the cost. Those Cajuns have been putting up wiers in Louisiana for a long time. 

As a sidenote I remember when they opened the fish pass in '77, that was one awful winter. One Saturday in November eight boats launched where Junior's ramp is today, to hunt way back to the west in the newly-formed SeaRim State Park. Keith Lake turned so cold, rainy and rough that day, only five boats made it back. I heard helicopters saved all three groups. Of the five boats that made it, three were run by my friends and me. We hugged the north shoreline and there was a handy bar ditch to run as well, probably melted away now from saltwater intrusion. We knew the area back in there, it used to be Shell Lake Duck Lease and we hunted with the Reynolds and Horton families. Also made a few afternoon hunts on Mr. Gauleaux's lake, he had sunken olive barrel blinds with 150 decoys set out, some of them painted black jugs. We'd just ease into those blinds and bust a few pintails at 10 yards range, as they passed overhead.


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## keithlake (Dec 8, 2009)

They can't drive piling swell enough for a simple bulkhead , no way can they do it well enough for wooden weirs Bulkhead didn't make a month before repairs are needed


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## cfulbright (Jun 24, 2009)

It would be redfish paradise in the back if they closed it up some, grass would grow, small shrimp and crabs... redfish would literally be crawling in the back lakes like in the Neches and Sabine river near I-10


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## Trouthappy (Jun 12, 2008)

Shrimp and young menhaden probably do a lot better in a stable environment back in those lakes, instead of getting sucked out to the jetties with a big outgoing tide. I saw pods of tiny menhaden at the Sabine jetties this summer, maybe for the first time, and they were getting herded up and massacred by mackerel. They should have stayed way back in the shallow bays.


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## redking498 (May 30, 2013)

Mr Andy send me your number or text me have a new phone same number just lost my contacts


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## trout2th (May 28, 2014)

I hate the whole project from the time it began! When they put in the bulkheads, I knew it was the beginning of the end. After all government knows what's best for us, do they not?


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## keithlake (Dec 8, 2009)

I hate change , especially when our thoughtful government is handling things. You know they will do what is best for us . YEAH. KL is a great fishery , not everytime , but I would say the majority we can have a boat limit of trout , & a few flounder & reds. If the water is blocked/slowed , how much water exchange will happen in the back lakes , none. JD Murphy rules the lake as I am told . My TPWD friend told me the intention , from JD Murphy , is to STOP fishing in KL & make it duck hunters place. Great for them what , 3 months a year & then what about the rest of the year. How about all the saltwater marshes down south or in LA. , how are they doing? I hear good , but I don't go there so I really don't know. Down south TX all I hear about is prop damage in the grass. & why no public meetings ? Just seems crocked the way Local , State or Fed. Govt. is handling this.


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## trout2th (May 28, 2014)

That's my understanding, it will be a check in station for JD Murphey for duck hunters. That's been the rumor for years, given the fact that the old check in station was demolished years ago to hurricane Rita. Guess we'll see what develops.


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## keithlake (Dec 8, 2009)

Another thinks Govt, knows what is best . Is this some of the same Govt. officials regulating Snapper, who knows

http://www.beaumontenterprise.com/d...sson-learned-Keith-Lake-Fish-Pass-5807606.php


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## trout2th (May 28, 2014)

Oh... there's too much salt water intrusion and the government knows what's best for us due to all the erosion. Makes me wanna go hug a tree. Sounds like this is a call for CCA!


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## RedXCross (Aug 7, 2005)

I knew the other boat was a friend of mine from Port Arthur, Father and son team. I was hunting on Cowboys Property with my dad and a few local Cajuns whom we leased it with. I know about the Helicopter and all. They were with us the next weekend. LOL(as guest)

I am gonna go LIGHT on this subject because, I have a great deal of passion for this ENTIRE area here and I could go bonkers LOL,

Keithlake(Andy) I believe,

There are a number of things I would like to see done , but I think most NOW are futile. Meaning they are gonna do what they are gonna do. Your friend is spot on about the hunting, I sat on the boat edge and watched this happen.



Trouthappy said:


> Seems like some old-fashioned wooden wiers wouldn't cost much. And the lake system wouldn't be sucked nearly dry with a big cold front. Heck, string 2-3 wiers across that fish pass and slow the water down. Those lakes would be seriously full of shrimp and crab like the old days. They want to bring in granite boulders from central Texas, and set them on the mud banks? Man, I don't know about that. They could drive in pilings and string up wiers at a fraction of the cost. Those Cajuns have been putting up wiers in Louisiana for a long time.
> 
> As a sidenote I remember when they opened the fish pass in '77, that was one awful winter. One Saturday in November eight boats launched where Junior's ramp is today, to hunt way back to the west in the newly-formed SeaRim State Park. Keith Lake turned so cold, rainy and rough that day, only five boats made it back. I heard helicopters saved all three groups. Of the five boats that made it, three were run by my friends and me. We hugged the north shoreline and there was a handy bar ditch to run as well, probably melted away now from saltwater intrusion. We knew the area back in there, it used to be Shell Lake Duck Lease and we hunted with the Reynolds and Horton families. Also made a few afternoon hunts on Mr. Gauleaux's lake, he had sunken olive barrel blinds with 150 decoys set out, some of them painted black jugs. We'd just ease into those blinds and bust a few pintails at 10 yards range, as they passed overhead.


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## dukhunter (Aug 30, 2007)

I realize this entire issue is moot, the powers that be have voted and think this is best for all of us. I agree Brad, this is someithing much bigger than all of us but the way it was handled stinks! When TPWD wanted input for limits they held meeting up and down the coast but when it comes to changing habitat they do it quickly, quietly as to not stir the pot or alert the masses! Doing a quick Google search for the Jefferson County Commissioners Court Keith Lake you will find this issue has been going on for many years. Hurricane Ike is what really got them going combined with a hefty donation from local industry, the baffle, weir, rocks or whatever this restriction is going to be called was all but a done deal. http://www.guidrynews.com/story.aspx?id=1000038707
Google for yourself and see just how long this plan has been in action.


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## spurgersalty (Jun 29, 2010)

Guys, this was a freshwater system,predominantly, before the pass. We are reverting it back to what it was, somewhat. What is the problem with fixing a problem we caused?


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## keithlake (Dec 8, 2009)

How will stay fresh when IKE put 13 FEET of gulf of mexico into it?


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## spurgersalty (Jun 29, 2010)

That was not a normal ebb and flow function of the tides. And neither was Rita's surge. I remember the cry's of destruction to the pintail flats after Rita. I may he somewhat naive, but, there is some truth to that. Saltwater intrusion was the culprit.


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## keithlake (Dec 8, 2009)

They had their vote , next is to stop the fishing in KL has been the Rumor/Plan for 10 years or more. Would hate to see that go thru


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## JFolm (Apr 22, 2012)

Surely all of you know how massive the tide movements can be there. I don't think this will hurt us but I still don't enjoy the sheet pilings. I know it will prevent erosion though.


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## keithlake (Dec 8, 2009)

Agreed with both , tide can be a raging river & the crappy bulkhead just killed a lot of great area


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## colbyntx (Jul 18, 2013)

keithlake said:


> Agreed with both , tide can be a raging river & the crappy bulkhead just killed a lot of great area


yes it did. Now go to bed Andy!


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## tokavi (May 6, 2006)

I've read thru all the comments. I have also read historic accounts of the Keith Lake area. Before the pass there was both great hunting and fishing. My understanding is the pass was much smaller when it was opened and has grown wider over the years due to erosion, thus allowing a hugh amount of saltwater to enter the system. The system being put in is not intended to stop saltwater from entering the system only restrict it to the amount originally intended. Will it change the system? I don't know. I do know there are weirs all over parts of Louisiana and they catch plenty of fish in front and behind them. As for plans to close the lake to fishing I think yall are way off base. Just my .02


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## Trouthappy (Jun 12, 2008)

I don't recall ever seeing a pass prior to 1977, we all thought the only water movement happened far to the west into the ICW. Through the old concrete weir there. I must have drove to Sabine a thousand times between 1968-1977 and never heard or saw any evidence of water exchange where the huge pass is today. Much less any fishermen. Just the old pogey plant on the ship channel, next to today's fish pass. We could easily smell that pogey plant in Port Arthur, with a south wind. If the only water exchange was far to the west, then no wonder they had a pretty good freshwater system in there, with lower salinity. We used to shoot ducks back in there in November, and big blue crabs would get them if you let them float to the far shoreline. Lots of gar, too.


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## cfulbright (Jun 24, 2009)

Im not a duck hunter, so maybe im lost but what does saltwater intrusion have to do with ducks? The reason I ask is I fish the south tip of Tx point, and if you go to the biggest lake south on tx point, it is very salty being so close to the gulf... point is I have turned the corner to that lake many times, and there have been so many ducks on that lake I could not have carried enough ammo to kill them all.


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## JFolm (Apr 22, 2012)

cfulbright said:


> Im not a duck hunter, so maybe im lost but what does saltwater intrusion have to do with ducks? The reason I ask is I fish the south tip of Tx point, and if you go to the biggest lake south on tx point, it is very salty being so close to the gulf... point is I have turned the corner to that lake many times, and there have been so many ducks on that lake I could not have carried enough ammo to kill them all.


FOOD.


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## cfulbright (Jun 24, 2009)

JFolm said:


> FOOD.


I limit out on reds in the winter in the main channel that runs with the street at Tx point, and duck will be flying right over my head, and land a couple of hundred yards away and start eating. That channel is off the SP jetty, cant get any saltier.

I don't see what is so hard about this duck huntin thing. lol


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## spurgersalty (Jun 29, 2010)

cfulbright said:


> I limit out on reds in the winter in the main channel that runs with the street at Tx point, and duck will be flying right over my head, and land a couple of hundred yards away and start eating. That channel is off the SP jetty, cant get any saltier.
> 
> I don't see what is so hard about this duck huntin thing. lol


Following through on your shot, mostly.


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## JFolm (Apr 22, 2012)

cfulbright said:


> I limit out on reds in the winter in the main channel that runs with the street at Tx point, and duck will be flying right over my head, and land a couple of hundred yards away and start eating. That channel is off the SP jetty, cant get any saltier.
> 
> I don't see what is so hard about this duck huntin thing. lol


Those are flying hard heads!


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## Trouthappy (Jun 12, 2008)

A bunch of scaups hanging around the jetty doesn't mean Keith Lake doesn't need lower salinity for a variety of vegetation and wildlife. Texas Point always had the saltwater-loving ducks. I've hiked all over that place and been stranded twice, once by a big outgoing tide on Christmas Eve that left our boat high and dry.


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## cfulbright (Jun 24, 2009)

JFolm said:


> Those are flying hard heads!


LOL! I like that.

From what I remember there were a lot of black and white ducks, then some smaller ducks, and also some Mallards mixed in.


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## SETXJR (May 12, 2014)

spurgersalty said:


> Guys, this was a freshwater system,predominantly, before the pass. We are reverting it back to what it was, somewhat. What is the problem with fixing a problem we caused?


This!! We, man, opened this lake up to saltwater flow and now we are going to return it to its natural habitat, or at least try. I'm all for government staying out of our business, but this seems like a no brainer. There are still plenty of places to fish from the bank.


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## cfulbright (Jun 24, 2009)

Trouthappy said:


> A bunch of scaups hanging around the jetty doesn't mean Keith Lake doesn't need lower salinity for a variety of vegetation and wildlife. Texas Point always had the saltwater-loving ducks. I've hiked all over that place and been stranded twice, once by a big outgoing tide on Christmas Eve that left our boat high and dry.


Not at all saying KL does not need it, I agree it does. I just questioned the duck hunter point-understand now.

I could not imagine hiking Tx point the mud there is deep, I know.


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## Trouthappy (Jun 12, 2008)

Well, Texas Point has flats, and then deep marsh. You can also hike the beach a few miles to access the center parts. In 1971 it was $3 a morning to hunt, you paid old Mr. Cessac in a small wooden shack in Sabine. Lots of snow geese then, and saltwater mosquitos. Before helicopter traffic built along Hwy. 87 and ruined the goose hunting.

We even snuck into Texas Point a few times for afternoon hunts, it was so isolated. With a north wind, no chance of being heard. After Cessac, Cowboy Hernandez and friends were leasing it, but we just had to hunt back in there from 2 pm until dark. We hiked back to Hwy. 87 by starlight, no flashlight. Always fun with a loaded backpack. During the years there we mostly shot widgeon and scaup, even 10 duck limits, they love saltwater. It was entirely different environment and wildlife from back in Keith Lake. Here's the birds you've probably been seeing around the jetties. Never saw these in Keith Lake.


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## JFolm (Apr 22, 2012)

cfulbright said:


> Not at all saying KL does not need it, I agree it does. I just questioned the duck hunter point-understand now.
> 
> I could not imagine hiking Tx point the mud there is deep, I know.


Tx point is a very easy walk in. 75% of the walk is on a built up hard levee.


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## cfulbright (Jun 24, 2009)

JFolm said:


> Tx point is a very easy walk in. 75% of the walk is on a built up hard levee.


Maybe set up walk in spots, but not where I fish. Iv tried, there are place that fish get that I cant.


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## Trouthappy (Jun 12, 2008)

If Texas Point was easy walking, they wouldn't build a levee to walk on. Unless they're trying to trap freshwater.


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## OnedayScratch (May 23, 2012)

Not in Jeff Co. But there is an election coming up. If this many folks are displeased with this outcome, look and see who voted for it and kickem out.

And stop eating at Rao's bakery....


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## SETXJR (May 12, 2014)

OnedayScratch said:


> Not in Jeff Co. But there is an election coming up. If this many folks are displeased with this outcome, look and see who voted for it and kickem out.
> 
> And stop eating at Rao's bakery....


What's wrong with Rao's?


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## RedXCross (Aug 7, 2005)

Cowboy Fernandez, not Hernandez, and you were on his(Howard Hill's stuff) property closer to cessac , LOL not ours I assure you . LMAO Joe , you and I could bring down Port Arthur if we talked Live time LMFAO.( we even leased across the street where O.D. Labove leased us the deep vat ponds. AWESOME stuff. I am showing my age. I could also tell you about the Monkeys in the Trees by the bird watch area back then!
We had a camp out there and somebody was there ALL the time , That's why I say that, and believe me those boys would have found you quick!



Trouthappy said:


> Well, Texas Point has flats, and then deep marsh. You can also hike the beach a few miles to access the center parts. In 1971 it was $3 a morning to hunt, you paid old Mr. Cessac in a small wooden shack in Sabine. Lots of snow geese then, and saltwater mosquitos. Before helicopter traffic built along Hwy. 87 and ruined the goose hunting.
> 
> We even snuck into Texas Point a few times for afternoon hunts, it was so isolated. With a north wind, no chance of being heard. After Cessac, Cowboy Hernandez and friends were leasing it, but we just had to hunt back in there from 2 pm until dark. We hiked back to Hwy. 87 by starlight, no flashlight. Always fun with a loaded backpack. During the years there we mostly shot widgeon and scaup, even 10 duck limits, they love saltwater. It was entirely different environment and wildlife from back in Keith Lake. Here's the birds you've probably been seeing around the jetties. Never saw these in Keith Lake.


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## Trouthappy (Jun 12, 2008)

We used to hear about 30 gunshots go off at once, when they got the snow geese to finally land at LaBove's. They had sand pits, or so we heard. It almost always happened about 9:30 or 10 am. At Cessacs we walked in where the pipework was on the right side of Hwy. 87 west of Sabine. Only two miles or so to the beach. Parked our cars there on the north side of the road, and hiked south near the beach. We told Cowboy this in his house while buying duck calls and listening to his daughters crank it up in the garage, they could win competitions. Cowboy was good-natured and seemed to realize that 20-year olds just have to hunt when they're home from college for Christmas. They couldn't have caught us hiking out of that marsh, except maybe with starlight scopes. We also beached our jonboats on the sand, after running through the west jetty safety cut. Here's a picture from one of those morning hunts in about 1979, a legal hunt maybe, I forget. We got soaking wet, a SW wind came up and it was a long run back through the jetties in little jonboats. This pond is only 200 yards from the beach, very salty. Behind the guys are the oak trees on Hwy. 87, a pretty good hike we made many times in the earlier '70s. This is an old duck blind frame with weeds overgrowing it. Surely that isn't a spoonie on the duck strap...These are guys from Clear Lake I went to college with. Drove all the way to Sabine to hunt.

You might have met Ed Holder from the Port Arthur hunting Club, though you might have been too young. He used to mentor some of my early stories back in '69, I'd just show up at his house. Sad to say, he burned his many newspaper stories in a barrel, late in life. People didn't realize what he was doing. It should all be in a book today, if someone only kept his stories. Maybe the PA News kept them on microfilm. Port Arthur is the original center of Texas duck hunting. Even World War II gunners from Port Arthur were *coveted* by the military, because "they knew how to lead" at a very early age. Gulf and Texaco refinery duck hunters back then didn't waste ammo and were deadly shots. No other Texas town has near the duck hunting tradition of Port Arthur. None sir. And some of it needs restoration.


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## RedXCross (Aug 7, 2005)

Ed Holder was a family friend not to young, he was a charter member of a bass club in Bridge city , as well as the Foreman's and My dad.LOL. 
Joe I was in the marsh from La. to High Island at 7.
It was a pond 250 yards in Diam. with white sand(Laboves) turned brown over time. 
The geese that would work it , always came over Juniors house to work it. (been there a time or two) you were hunting what we called the Pipeline slough, and if yall came from the jetty cut you deserved to hunt there lmao.
You were right about the Texaco men , my dad was A GREAT (BRAGGING) HUNTER AND A SPORTSMAN. I COULD THROW A LOT OF NAMES YOUR WAY!



Trouthappy said:


> We used to hear about 30 gunshots go off at once, when they got the snow geese to finally land at LaBove's. They had sand pits, or so we heard. It almost always happened about 9:30 or 10 am. At Cessacs we walked in where the pipework was on the right side of Hwy. 87 west of Sabine. Only two miles or so to the beach. Parked our cars there on the north side of the road, and hiked south near the beach. We told Cowboy this in his house while buying duck calls and listening to his daughters crank it up in the garage, they could win competitions. Cowboy was good-natured and seemed to realize that 20-year olds just have to hunt when they're home from college for Christmas. They couldn't have caught us hiking out of that marsh, except maybe with starlight scopes. We also beached our jonboats on the sand, after running through the west jetty safety cut. Here's a picture from one of those morning hunts in about 1979, a legal hunt maybe, I forget. We got soaking wet, a SW wind came up and it was a long run back through the jetties in little jonboats. This pond is only 200 yards from the beach, very salty. Behind the guys are the oak trees on Hwy. 87, a pretty good hike we made many times in the earlier '70s. This is an old duck blind frame with weeds overgrowing it. Surely that isn't a spoonie on the duck strap...These are guys from Clear Lake I went to college with. Drove all the way to Sabine to hunt.
> 
> You might have met Ed Holder from the Port Arthur hunting Club, though you might have been too young. He used to mentor some of my early stories back in '69, I'd just show up at his house. Sad to say, he burned his many newspaper stories in a barrel, late in life. People didn't realize what he was doing. It should all be in a book today, if someone only kept his stories. Maybe the PA News kept them on microfilm. Port Arthur is the original center of Texas duck hunting. Even World War II gunners from Port Arthur were *coveted* by the military, because "they knew how to lead" at a very early age. Gulf and Texaco refinery duck hunters back then didn't waste ammo and were deadly shots. No other Texas town has near the duck hunting tradition of Port Arthur. None sir. And some of it needs restoration.


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## keithlake (Dec 8, 2009)

After speaking with TPWD I feel better about the plans at the pass. Baffles to slow down salt water & allow boats to pass over baffles , not sure if will motor over the top or not. & NO way will it ever be fresh water again , maybe just not as salty. Fishing hopefully will still be good. Not sure about how the flounder will navigate past the baffles if they are resting on the bottom. Now yall get back to the old days of your hunts


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## RedXCross (Aug 7, 2005)

Andy,
Joe and I get off on a tangent sometime, no worries about the old times I could write a book as he could and has many articles on it. Lmao 
Sorry I muffed up your post! 



keithlake said:


> After speaking with TPWD I feel better about the plans at the pass. Baffles to slow down salt water & allow boats to pass over baffles , not sure if will motor over the top or not. & NO way will it ever be fresh water again , maybe just not as salty. Fishing hopefully will still be good. Not sure about how the flounder will navigate past the baffles if they are resting on the bottom. Now yall get back to the old days of your hunts


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## tokavi (May 6, 2006)

Someone should write a book about the hunting and fishing back then Brad. I always enjoyed Mr. Holder's articles. Hard to beleive they are not saved somewhere.


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## RedXCross (Aug 7, 2005)

I agree, I think you know and see my passion.

I love this area. I realize change is eminent in the area landscape and has been for a long time. If we do things to better it and not choke it off to the public I am for it. This area has MANY fisherman and we need the area. and to take care of it.
I could rant on , but there are many things that I am private about(areas)



tokavi said:


> Someone should write a book about the hunting and fishing back then Brad. I always enjoyed Mr. Holder's articles. Hard to beleive they are not saved somewhere.


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## Trouthappy (Jun 12, 2008)

Pleasure Island was our hunting lease starting in '67 when the bridge went out. None of our group had dads that hunted, so we had zero guidance. We had the run of the island with an old Plymouth Belvedere station wagon. Drive the island all day, and you'd never see another car. I didn't even have a driver's license yet. I put 2-3 guys on the roof rack, all 10th graders from TJ, and we'd cruised around at night in the fog, shooting rabbits at 30 mph. Whoops, don't hit the brakes too hard. Shot quite a few ducks on the brand new north and south levies, they weren't paved for years. The fishing was incredible on both levies. In '69 our junior year in high school, we started hunting Murphree and after that branched out to SeaRim, Texas Point and various parts of McFaddin, finally focusing between Star Lake and the White Ranch road, where nobody went. Many thousands of birds in there. If they burned the marsh that year, you could scoot along through the cow prints. If the salt grass was neck high, it was slow going. The refuge director said that area was closed, but if we could hike that far, we deserved to hunt it. We also made special trips to the Jungle on Lake Livingston during its heyday, camping in the woods there even in January. That's another place that has fallen from great hunting, like Keith Lake.



RedXCross said:


> I agree, I think you know and see my passion.
> 
> I love this area. I realize change is eminent in the area landscape and has been for a long time. If we do things to better it and not choke it off to the public I am for it. This area has MANY fisherman and we need the area. and to take care of it.
> I could rant on , but there are many things that I am private about(areas)


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## colbyntx (Jul 18, 2013)

keithlake said:


> After speaking with TPWD I feel better about the plans at the pass. Baffles to slow down salt water & allow boats to pass over baffles , not sure if will motor over the top or not. & NO way will it ever be fresh water again , maybe just not as salty. Fishing hopefully will still be good. Not sure about how the flounder will navigate past the baffles if they are resting on the bottom. Now yall get back to the old days of your hunts


They put those baffles up here on my end of the Sabine feeding into TB so boats could cross. It's easy in a flat bottom! You just run the front end up on the baffles, hop out of the boat and drag it the rest of the way over


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## keithlake (Dec 8, 2009)

Colby I got different info again this am , twice , so not real sure what will happen just yet. Suppose to get a look at the PLANS this weekend. But I think there will still more arguing before anything happens


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## Flash1 (Jul 10, 2009)

tokavi said:


> Someone should write a book about the hunting and fishing back then Brad. I always enjoyed Mr. Holder's articles. Hard to beleive they are not saved somewhere.


There has been one written Tony... I believe it is titled "100 Years of Texas Duck Hunting". I have it somewhere. It has a whole section on Southeast Texas. Very interesting!


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## dukhunter (Aug 30, 2007)

^^^^^ Very good book! Talks about the trains bringing passengers from Port Arthur to Sabine Pass to hunt. Ships sailing into Sabine Lake and getting stuck and customers shooting birds all day off the deck of the boat.


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## Trouthappy (Jun 12, 2008)

A good book. Amazon.com says: A Hundred Years of Texas Waterfowl Hunting: The Decoys, Guides, Clubs, and Places, 1870s to 1970s (Gulf Coast Books, sponsored by Texas A&M University-Corpus Christi) Hardcover â€" July 13, 2012

http://www.amazon.com/Hundred-Years-Texas-Waterfowl-Hunting/dp/1603447636

Since I was right there starting in 1967, hunting all the time, I looked for my name in the book, but no dice. That year I was just a potlicker on Pleasure Island with three Victor decoys and a single shot .410. I also drove Mr. Smiley (the marina master's) boat, a wooden shrimpboat with twin outboards, running up scaups on Sabine Lake, while he fired paper 7 1/2 shells at them. Oh, we had a time out there.


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## Kenner21 (Aug 25, 2005)

Do crabs need fresh water to reproduce ? Last time I checked the crbs in the surf weren't bothered by the high salinity.


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## colbyntx (Jul 18, 2013)

Kenner21 said:


> Do crabs need fresh water to reproduce ? Last time I checked the crbs in the surf weren't bothered by the high salinity.


Haha, I was wondering the same and about shrimp too?

I am and ex-chapter president of DU and love duck hunting. I can't see taking a body of water that is good fishing spring, summer & fall with good winter duck hunting into a winter only lake for hunters.


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## Trouthappy (Jun 12, 2008)

Blue crabs can't moult and grow without water salinity lower than seawater, I think it's 32 ppt for the Gulf. Crabs like that freshwater...The big ship channel into Matagorda Bay has also increased salinity, it's like a saltwater enema every day. Isn't that the reason they want to close Rollover Pass? Down on the southern coast of Texas, the bay water becomes more salty than Gulf water, from evaporation, so they build fish passes to the Gulf. During the drought of 2009, crabs and shrimp evacuated San Antonio and Matagorda Bays. The shrimpers cleaned up, and young crabs swimming on the surface got massacred by bull redfish, you could see whitewater blowing up for a pretty good distance. 40-inch bull reds hitting topwater lures in the bay. We got friends and neighbors out there and wore out those reds....they hit anything, but a crab-colored homemade jig with chicken feathers was very good.


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## ikeephardheads (Feb 23, 2008)

Mess it up like bridge city. Fill it up with dredge material in the back dam it up make it fresh. Bridge city use to have some of the best flounder and redfishing on baily road and off the highway, not nothing. South levee use to be great, filled completly in. North levee use to be awsome now slowing getting filled it norhing but silt now. Kieth lake is next. So dumb. if aint broke don't fix it. I confronted some people thats on the project and they blew me up, gave me a non working number to call. so SAD. I fish 5 days a week in these areas for the past 20 years, every year it gets worse.


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## Trouthappy (Jun 12, 2008)

Sabine Lake is nothing like 100 years ago. It used to be 20 feet deep with white sand bottom from the Sabine River. Built Toledo Bend dam, for reasons never made clear. The same year Brown and Root built the south and north levies on Sabine Lake, and carved off about 98 percent of the entire Texas shoreline from tidal water...dedicated to storing dredged silt to keep ships arriving. Square miles of Texas bay water, buried under muck. Great fishing inside those levies for trapped fish, for years, but it's a joke now. Fish hang around the rocks on the outside, however.


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## ikeephardheads (Feb 23, 2008)

Trouthappy said:


> Sabine Lake is nothing like 100 years ago. It used to be 20 feet deep with white sand bottom from the Sabine River. Built Toledo Bend dam, for reasons never made clear. The same year Brown and Root built the south and north levies on Sabine Lake, and carved off about 98 percent of the entire Texas shoreline from tidal water...dedicated to storing dredged silt to keep ships arriving. Square miles of Texas bay water, buried under muck. Great fishing inside those levies for trapped fish, for years, but it's a joke now. Fish hang around the rocks on the outside, however.


It saddens me that The people with the power to make thins right down excercise it the way they should. Pleasure island is a **** hole now. The piers, park area, boat ramps are all junk. they all got built by contractors who dont have a clue on those things. They just got the buddy hook up on those contracts after the storm. One thing for sure, like you said keep them canals open for commerce. its all about money. I find it very funny to see game wardens regulate and write tickets on areas that eventually will just be filled up holes. I remember game wardens use to right tickets for people shrimping on the south levee, now its completely filled in. Can you go back to court and get your money back since those waters dont exisit anymore? Who got the ticket for the thousands of redfish that died when they dammed up baily road and brdge city marsh? Did game wards issue a ticket for people on that project when they choked all the fish to death?


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## OnedayScratch (May 23, 2012)

SETXJR said:


> What's wrong with Rao's?


First, I apologize for the Rao comment. There is nothing wrong and I should not have said it.

Second, I try not to lend negative comments here/stir like some, just interject humor and possibly another side. Being said, if you want a difference, you have to start with the one thing you have control over. Your vote.


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## tngbmt (May 30, 2004)

sometimes i wonder why i belong to CCA .. sabine chapter
no input?


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## RedXCross (Aug 7, 2005)

Stay tuned for Chester Moore's article in Next Thursday PA News. He said he will have an update on Keith Lake? 
I hope by me posting again don't stir up some yesteryear stories again. lol
So Andy, we will see if all these people telling you 3 different things are remotely close to Uncle Chester! I have been told a few things too about it, But I remain silent on it.
Now, I am leaving to go catch the outgoing. Later


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## keithlake (Dec 8, 2009)

We went Saturday late in the day , great trip with 2 limits of trout , few reds & flounder. It's a great fishery for now , we will see what becomes of it. Each person I've talked with has had a different idea/story of what will happen. I spoke with Chester last Thursday & yes he said he also would let me know , another opinion for sure. Waiting also on CCA's report/story. I hope whatever changes are made are for the better for both the fish , ducks & marsh in general


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## bmtsupra (Jul 19, 2013)

Google Earth update their imagery to 10/3/2014. Here is a shot of the progress on new ramp at Keith Lake.


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## 9horns (Nov 10, 2010)

Nice boat ramp on a locked gate road. It will silt up, hope they maintain it with dredging. Never seen a project take so long to complete, makes you wonder. Maybe their waiting on the salt water salinity to settle down.:headknock


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## bmtsupra (Jul 19, 2013)

9horns said:


> Nice boat ramp on a locked gate road. It will silt up, hope they maintain it with dredging. Never seen a project take so long to complete, makes you wonder. Maybe their waiting on the salt water salinity to settle down.:headknock


They are definitely taking their sweet time on it. Maybe by this time next year they'll have the road and parking lot paved. sad3sm


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## Finn Maccumhail (Feb 16, 2009)

ddakota said:


> Ask Big Lake (Calcasieu Lake) guides how much the fishing was hurt there by putting weirs in the mouths of the 5 bayous that flowed into the lake on the east side. Same thing - cut down salt water intrusion into 10s of thousands of acres of marsh over there. It's not a death sentence, give it time and you will like it. Reserve your place in the mouth of the cut in the fall for some fantastic red fishing.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't reducing the saltwater intrusion & "freshening up" the water help the marsh grow back because the marsh grasses can't stand too much salt?

And more marsh equals more bait and places for baby reds/trout/flounder to hide so we get more of the big 'uns, right?


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## glockchooter (Sep 12, 2014)

Maybe it's becasue of my day to day job dealing with estimates and job planning and scheduling, but did anyone else notice in the article that it stated they didnt know how they are going to fund the 6 million dollar project? Couple things i see wrong with that. First, you told contractors how much to bid.
Second, when are our taxes going up to pay for this ****? Or better yet why dont they stop wasteing money every year to keep Ford Park open and put it to better use.


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## redexpress (Apr 5, 2010)

bmtsupra said:


> They are definitely taking their sweet time on it. Maybe by this time next year they'll have the road and parking lot paved. sad3sm


 A few weeks ago I talked to a TP&W guy doing a fish survey at the Cow Bayou 1442 ramp. I asked about the Keith Lake ramp, he said they weren't going to pave the parking lot until they are finished with all the heavy equipment work. They didn't want to damage the new asphalt.


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## JimD (May 25, 2004)

The problem is going to be more than that if it opens. 

If you have gone by the road at the other end of the cut there is usually 40-50+ bank fishermen.

I can guess that there will be 50 to 80 people fishing at the mouth of KL by the boat ramp. The area is narrow and the big weights will make for a no man's land for the boaters.

Who knows in 6 months how much lead will be stuck in the shell as bad as it is in the area. MIght fill the cut in. 

*The other problem will be with that small parking lot where will all the boaters park with that many bank fishermen filling up the parking lot so you cannot get in and launch?


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## fishin redneck (Mar 28, 2012)

Jim who's gonna watch your truck after you park there ?
I see a big problem there .


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## RedXCross (Aug 7, 2005)

Bingo!



JimD said:


> The problem is going to be more than that if it opens.
> 
> If you have gone by the road at the other end of the cut there is usually 40-50+ bank fishermen.
> 
> ...


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## 9horns (Nov 10, 2010)

No worries. It will silt in anyway. Our agencies don't know the word Maintenance. Boat ramp tucked in a corner was a bad idea. The parking lot is a joke, can you imagine driving down long road only to find out there is no parking room. Park on side of road? Turn around room? Launch boat and walk 1/4 mile back? This job was in the making for over 10 years, drew it up and no outside thought was put into it.


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## JimD (May 25, 2004)

*******, Will there be room to park your trailer is a better question. 

I have stopped and talked with some of the bank fishermen. Doubt the boaters have any problems with them other than a parking problem.


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## 9horns (Nov 10, 2010)

Why is Wild Cow or Wild Cat Bayou being dredged out? Forget it's actual name. Cut that comes in the South end of Shell Lake from Willow and Barnett Lakes.


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## keithlake (Dec 8, 2009)

I heard pipeline , but I have no idea how true that is


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## waterman1971 (Aug 29, 2011)

What ever happened with this project?


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## redexpress (Apr 5, 2010)

I think the boat ramp is finished but the last time I was there the gate was locked. I don't think the entrance road or parking lot was paved. That was 3-4 weeks ago.


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## JimD (May 25, 2004)

Good question. They put in a lot of rocks midway in the channel and closed off about 80% of the water flow into KL.

Ramp is finished and needs the parking lot finished for the duck hunters this fall.


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## waterman1971 (Aug 29, 2011)

Thanks for the replies .


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## Jaysand247 (Aug 19, 2012)

Gate was open last week . I was told, by a guy who fishes kl a lot , that they were rocking the parking area . I can't confirm .


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