# World Class Texas Trout Tomorrow



## cpthook (Jan 16, 2008)

I recently purchased "World Class Texas Trout Tomorrow" and it is as depressing as can be. Even though it is a excellent book and a good read it paints a true and sad story. Deadly Croker, excessive guides, commercial fishermen and shrimpers and "no respect shallow running grass burners" or "prime big sow grass and big sow shoreline destroyers". I know its a negative attitude but it is the sad reality of our big fish fishery. Its easy to go out and catch limits and limits of fish, that is evident from the numerous daily posts but where are the big fish? Few and far between. Baffin has become I-45 or I-10 West at 5:30pm rush hour. A few years back I remember setting up on a quite shoreline (Baffin) in anticipation of a good wade, little did I know I was situated in the middle of I-45 rush hour, one shallow runner after another cutting between us and the shore, some it seemed were on dry ground. We need TP&W to do something immediately. We must have an overwhelming outrageous cry from the fishing community now to force them to act. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. If we the fishermen organize a posse up and down the Gulf Coast, any and everybody get involved we can hopefully force the issue. But we must act now. Reduce limits to 5 fish, no shoreline burning, a big trout tag on licenses like red fish, just to mention a few. Look at the difference the Bass fishing organizations have made for Texas Lakes. We could do the same but it will take an out-cry from allot of people. Hopefully guides and shoreline burners will not take offense but jump on the bandwagon. This is not to point fingers because we all me included are guilty of some if not all of it. I would encourage reading the book so as to hear from the old salts how it used to be. Hundreds of big trout, unimaginable today but possibly not tomorrow. Lets get started.


----------



## fishingtwo (Feb 23, 2009)

I will agree and suppport all of what you said. I got a copy yesterday and have not read it yet but what you just stated is very true and yes it will pizz off some but it
has to start somewhere.


----------



## spurgersalty (Jun 29, 2010)

And let me guess.......ban croaker fishing also


----------



## J.T. Barely (Jan 28, 2012)

spurgersalty said:


> And let me guess.......ban croaker fishing also


Ding.. Ding........ Let's get it on!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## spurgersalty (Jun 29, 2010)

J.T. Barely said:


> Ding.. Ding........ Let's get it on!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I don't use them though, it just gets old everyone wanting to impress their views and "ethics" upon everyone else. So be it.


----------



## cpthook (Jan 16, 2008)

*About the future of big trout*



spurgersalty said:


> And let me guess.......ban croaker fishing also


I'll be the first to admit I onced tryed croker about 30 years ago and they worked great but I'm primarily a wade fisherman and quit using all live baits back then. This post isn't about any one group but it is about all groups. Banning croker would be one of the primary ways in an attempt to salvage what we have left. We have a big hurtle to jump but it can be done with enough visability.


----------



## Smackdaddy53 (Nov 4, 2011)

Its not only Baffin bro, Port Oconnor is so friggin overfished on weekends its ridiculous. Youre telling me that in that freeze we had last winter TPWD only found a couple of trout over 30" and they were up in pringle lake? I didnt read that in the book. Its pretty depressing that a guy cant catch good trout there anymore like it was ten or fifteen years ago when i fished it. No one can deny that its pretty slim pickins compared to what it used to be down here. Sabine is definitely a prime example of a great fishery due to lack of as many bay houses on the louisiana side and weekend warriors and guides as down here (port arthur being right there doesnt help the tourism and weekend home situation) but if youve ever fished there you know what i mean. It blows down south outta the water. Give me hell for saying it but im down for a five fish limit and a few other changes.


-mac-


----------



## whalerguy28 (Jun 3, 2009)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Its not only Baffin bro, Port Oconnor is so friggin overfished on weekends its ridiculous. Youre telling me that in that freeze we had last winter TPWD only found a couple of trout over 30" and they were up in pringle lake? I didnt read that in the book. Its pretty depressing that a guy cant catch good trout there anymore like it was ten or fifteen years ago when i fished it. No one can deny that its pretty slim pickins compared to what it used to be down here. Sabine is definitely a prime example of a great fishery due to lack of as many bay houses on the louisiana side and weekend warriors and guides as down here (port arthur being right there doesnt help the tourism and weekend home situation) but if youve ever fished there you know what i mean. It blows down south outta the water. Give me hell for saying it but im down for a five fish limit and a few other changes.
> 
> -mac-


Smack you can't compare Sabine with the southern bays it's apples and oranges, I agree with the OP and you on lowering limits and DEFINATELY a trophy trout tag like the OP said, but you can't compare all the bays together.


----------



## shalor57 (Feb 24, 2005)

I posted something of the same nature after I read the book and had many negative responses about elitist attitudes...however I am totally with you. Lower the trout limit to 5, and half to 2/3 of croaker soaking guides will be gone as will much of the over fishing problem. Catching trout in May/June is so fun and really so easy, it amazes me when I fish the ULM/Baffin that time of year, that most people are soaking croakers...Give me a topwater blowup or corky thump anyday.


----------



## Cork & Jig (Jan 5, 2010)

.


----------



## Cork & Jig (Jan 5, 2010)

Personally, I do not and have not had a problem catching both quality and quantities of fish.  In fact, we hammered them again this last week.

Are there lots of inconsiderate people? Yes. Does it affect the fish and their behavior? Yes, again! Are they still out there? Absolutely! Can they still be caught if you know what to do? Yep!

Here's a couple we caught. Nothing outta the ordinary, either.


----------



## Brghunter (Oct 23, 2011)

Well don't forget about those who fish under lights. I've heard guys brag about filling ice chest , in the winter. I fish art. , live bait is not the problem. I'm good with 5 fish.


----------



## humble one (Jan 31, 2011)

five fish limit on specs would be good, lets do it ,enjoyed reading this book ,and aagree with Scott, good job Scott tight lines, God bless


----------



## Dboll (Jan 24, 2012)

*5 Fish Limit!*

Five fish will feed an individual/family... Greed!


----------



## reeltimer (Feb 5, 2010)

It's time for popcorn!


----------



## Gethookedadventures (Jan 1, 2007)

Dboll said:


> Five fish will feed an individual/family... Greed!


 So I am a greedy person for keeping my legal limit of trout?


----------



## paymerick (May 19, 2010)

Gethookedadventures said:


> So I am a greedy person for keeping my legal limit of trout?


Yes, you are fishing against the resource and should be hung upside down from your toes and have rocks thrown at you!

I have no problem only keeping five fish because i'm not a big fish eater, but the main motivation for dropping the limit seems to be fish size... I don't agree with limiting people even more just to increase the quantity of bigger fish...


----------



## Cork & Jig (Jan 5, 2010)

The 30+ year, long term daily average of trout/fisherman/day is .5. That means that a boat with two people in it, on average, brings in one trout each day they fish. Guides are included in this average, as well. 

Contrary to "popular" belief, they do not always bring in limits of trout. In fact, rarely. The fact is most people do not catch anywhere near 5 keepers, let alone 10. That's why the law allows a maximum of 10.


----------



## reeltimer (Feb 5, 2010)

Cork & jig the other side doesn't operate on common sense.Good post^^^^^^


----------



## Smackdaddy53 (Nov 4, 2011)

I never said i couldnt catch fish, just not like i did in poc ten years ago. You cant argue that point. Last pic is two of us louisiana waters. How good of a fisherman you are is not the subject of this discussion. 


-mac-


----------



## Cork & Jig (Jan 5, 2010)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> I never said i couldnt catch fish, just not like i did in poc ten years ago. You cant argue that point. Last pic is two of us louisiana waters. How good of a fisherman you are is not the subject of this discussion.
> 
> -mac-


But, it is and I can argue that point. I catch as many, if not more, fish in POC, now, as I did 10 or 15 years ago. It is a very easy place to catch fish.

I fish many systems and have listened to many of the same old gripes for decades. I don't have any more trouble finding and catching fish now than I did 30 years. You have to be willing to adapt to changing conditions, learning what is needed to successfully meet these changes.

POC, for one, is a continually changing environment. Some places are silting in while others are getting deeper. Fish respond to these changes and we as fishermen must be able to anticipate them in order to be successful.

They also adjust to increased boat traffic. Just because there are a lot of people running around POC doesn't mean you can't be successful. The fish are still there. They might change their movements slightly but they can still be caught.


----------



## Colorado (Jun 24, 2009)

Hmmm, get rid of live bait fishing, throw the guides out so others who enjoy the sport and hire guides can't go fishing, commercial fishing has not been a big factor since the 80's, shrimper numbers are way down, but they do have by-catch plus they provide evil live bait. All this for a full day of nothing but trophy trout? Then they would no longer be trophies. I like the 10 fish limit, I get to the coast every other month and 5 fish will not go far, 10 doesn't. 10% of the fishermen catch 90% of the fish.


----------



## paymerick (May 19, 2010)

Colorado said:


> All this for a full day of nothing but trophy trout? Then they would no longer be trophies.


Good point, what would be so special about catching trophy trout if every Tom, Dick and Harry could go out there and catch them?


----------



## sotexhookset (Jun 4, 2011)

The wife ordered the book for me last week or so and I just received. Have'nt opened it yet but I'm good with the five fish limit and have been for a couple of years. Mainly fish POC but do hit Port Isabell as well a couple times a year and yes, was concerned (kinda pizzzed, long drive for 5 a day) with the new limits 4 years back and now, yes, glad TPWD did it. Big difference on better fish. Size and counts.


----------



## Smackdaddy53 (Nov 4, 2011)

Theres no sense in going at it about limits and all this, lets just keep doing the same thing and never change anything, itll be ok for us but who cares what our kids have to live with after were gone. I dont put a dent in thd fish population anyway. Tight lines!


-mac-


----------



## Omega (Jun 11, 2010)

I can only sympathize with you younger fishing brothers about how it used to be - when I was a boy about age 17 in 1947 to go fishing was a great pleasure requiring only rudimentary skills in cathcing fish; I used to row out to a near reef in San Leon on Galveston Bay, and be able to catch trout with a simple rig; and when bait ran out, using a silver hook alone would catch hungry fish. I know what is was like then and can appreciate your sentiments about the decline in our fishery mainly due to great fishing pressure each and every week-end most of the year. To deal with this issue will take cooperative organization of brother fishermen dedicated to solving the problem and being respectful of all who are involved.


----------



## Spots and Dots (May 23, 2004)

What good is a trophy trout tag?

You can only keep 1/day over 25", anyway. And who catches so many 25"+ fish pn a given day that it's a problem?

To me, a lower bag limit is fine, but suspect alot of anglers don't end a day with 5 keepers anyway.


And why eliminate given baits (croaker)? Catch what the law allows, any way the law allows and call it a good day!

As for shoreline burners and other idiots - you can and never will fix ignorance. And, for the record - I do tun shorelines to stay outta rough water.


----------



## spurgersalty (Jun 29, 2010)

Sounds like the gamefish were over-populated and decimating the baitfish population way back when.....its our responsibility to maintain an equal balance. The feds are already saying that menhaden are over fished and declining......SAVE THE MENHADEN!!


----------



## spurgersalty (Jun 29, 2010)

Spots and Dots said:


> What good is a trophy trout tag?
> 
> You can only keep 1/day over 25", anyway. And who catches so many 25"+ fish pn a given day that it's a problem?
> 
> ...


----------



## paymerick (May 19, 2010)

Omega said:


> To deal with this issue will take cooperative organization of brother fishermen dedicated to solving the problem and being respectful of all who are involved.


Amen... I really loved seeing the "just keep five" campaign back in the day... It made people ask themselves the question, "do i really need to keep 10 trout just because i can?"

Then today you see people talking about the importance of tossing those 25"+ trout back, and i think it's made a great impression on a lot of fisherman who would otherwise just not think about it (completely understandable)...

But as for right now i don't see why we should limit the guy who gets down to the coast once or twice a year for one night under the lights... I don't see why that guy can't drive an hour+ to the coast, bag 10 and head back with enough fish to invite the family over for a fry the next day...

Limiting that guy for the some who want to catch 25"+ trout more consistantly is not good enough reason IMO...


----------



## Smackdaddy53 (Nov 4, 2011)

Im not trying to butt heads with my fellow 2coolers but you said it brother! AS FOR RIGHT NOW...thats what we thought in the early 80's when we used to go out gigging and drag back 30 flounder a night until a few years later they started getting hard to come by. Not arguing, keep ten trout, its all of our right! Just for right now though. Im being difficult this morning, i gotta get out and go fishing asap! Im out guys, keep it clean! 


-mac-


----------



## paymerick (May 19, 2010)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Im not trying to butt heads with my fellow 2coolers but you said it brother! AS FOR RIGHT NOW...thats what we thought in the early 80's when we used to go out gigging and drag back 30 flounder a night until a few years later they started getting hard to come by. Not arguing, keep ten trout, its all of our right! Just for right now though. Im being difficult this morning, i gotta get out and go fishing asap! Im out guys, keep it clean!
> 
> -mac-


I get ya... Purdy outside...


----------



## spurgersalty (Jun 29, 2010)

paymerick said:


> I get ya... Purdy outside...


Purdy quick, I'm gonna have 25 white perch in my cooler for a ceviche and some fried fish tonight. Hitting the road now, later guys


----------



## capt mullet (Nov 15, 2008)

a 5 man limit is too low but a 10 man limit is too high. I like the idea of 7 trout per person. That should satisfy both groups and hopefully help the trout population grow. 1 fish over 24 per day is what I would like to see. No tags like bullreds. Starting a campaign of catch & release is important. I dont see a lot of C & R anglers in saltwater. The bass guys have done great with catch and release. they promote it through the ranks and it has trickled down to the average angler. That is what we need!

Croakers are another subject. Does a croaker meet the definition of a gamefish? Probably not. Is croaker fishing hurting the population of croakers the species? yes it is. That is a problem in my opinion. Sacrificing one species for another is not ethical in my opinion. Croaker fishing has become a big business and economics are involved now with bait shops making a lot of their income from them. With the state of our economy we do not want to hurt anyones livelihood. More science needs to be done to determine what croaker fishing is doing to the croaker population and the trout population. Lets get the facts from biologists and then make a decision based on the health of these 2 species and not what our personal beliefs are or how we like to fish. lets make this argument about the environment as a whole not an anglers fun day on the water.


----------



## DRH (Oct 14, 2009)

From age 9-age 65,fished Salt water and fourteen years on bass pro team, I have fished from Corps up to Venice,LA.. It's all about fishing pressures and location... The differance in fresh water and salt water, Freshwater fisherman are more conserative on live releasing all bass and even tournaments, I know salt water fish are not as tuff, but to protect a large trout, we must practice more live releases.. Learn to practice live release on trophy trout and bass.. I take a camera and measuring device to get a picture an measuring of lenght and girth to have a mount made.. Fiberglass mounts are better and last longer, back in the day I had a ten pound bass mounted and I regrit today, because I know how meny of those ten pounders I have killed over the years, that ,if I decided to let her lived,she would have produce more of her size. Let's keep the trophy trout and bass laying eggs for our childeran and grandkids, so thet can enjoy what we have over the years. Everone has their own opion, I giving my opion of what I have encountered over 65 years of enjoying fishing.


----------



## bjqx (Feb 4, 2012)

Why no slot on upper end 24" - 28" you have to let swim?


----------



## Spots and Dots (May 23, 2004)

How about keep the first 5 you catch. No culling, no catch and release (everyone knows handling fish is bad for them anyway). And, you can only fish 3 days a week, while using a wataguna rod, using a crazycorki, and you must put the fish in a yeti cooler. If you don't use braid, you can catch an extra fish on every third trip, but only if you have a shallowshoalhayniejakcat boat with a 300.

If you catch a 22" or larger trout you must report it to the authorities so they can declare the catch area "off limits",for breeding.

If you want to fish more days or keep more fish you can buy additional tags from the tag pool, but doing so will require you to declare professional status because non-pros can't possibly be that good or fish that much.


----------



## sotexhookset (Jun 4, 2011)

Wow. That's exactly what I've been thinking as well.


----------



## reeltimer (Feb 5, 2010)

Spots and Dots said:


> How about keep the first 5 you catch. No culling, no catch and release (everyone knows handling fish is bad for them anyway). And, you can only fish 3 days a week, while using a wataguna rod, using a crazycorki, and you must put the fish in a yeti cooler. If you don't use braid, you can catch an extra fish on every third trip, but only if you have a shallowshoalhayniejakcat boat with a 300.
> 
> If you catch a 22" or larger trout you must report it to the authorities so they can declare the catch area "off limits",for breeding.
> 
> If you want to fish more days or keep more fish you can buy additional tags from the tag pool, but doing so will require you to declare professional status because non-pros can't possibly be that good or fish that much.


:rotfl::rotfl:.I must spread some!


----------



## flounderchaser (Aug 20, 2005)

I believe that odd days we should keep 4 trout/day and on even days we should keep 6 trout/day ...odd days artificial bait only with live bait on even days only...motor boats on odd days only with kayaks and wading on even days ...quides only allowed once a month only on even months in the surf and only on odd months in the bay systems...There you go...problem solved...Ya ll are just making it way too complicated!


----------



## johnmyjohn (Aug 6, 2006)

It's to where if you are a true sportsman you wouldn't fish at all, just talk about it. Even if you catch and release everything you stand to kill fish. Lets try keeping the laws the same and on odd numbered years the most complex fishing tackle you can use is a cane pole. An odd year trophy will surely be something to brag about. I and many others pay TPWD lots of money and they have no problem telling me what and how many fish to keep. Thru the research and surveys of many educated people I believe they come up with something that we can all live with.


----------



## cpthook (Jan 16, 2008)

*Catch and Release*

We have come a long way in recent years with more and more people releasing big fish, thank god. And the five fish limit down south. But we have a long way to go restoring grass and having no motor running areas to save grass beds and marshes. Getting rid of croker fishing etc,. I know allot of guys disagree but that's normal. Eventually maybe we can get there, the bays do have allot of fish but allot of small fish not big ones. Now obviously there are some big fish and certain areas hold big fish but it is not what it used to be and we have allot of work to do.


----------



## Mojo281 (Sep 7, 2006)

Colorado said:


> Hmmm, get rid of live bait fishing, throw the guides out so others who enjoy the sport and hire guides can't go fishing, commercial fishing has not been a big factor since the 80's, shrimper numbers are way down, but they do have by-catch plus they provide evil live bait. All this for a full day of nothing but trophy trout? Then they would no longer be trophies. I like the 10 fish limit, I get to the coast every other month and 5 fish will not go far, 10 doesn't. *10% of the fishermen catch 90% of the fish*.


Ding... ding... ding... WINNER!!


----------



## geezuphosdn (Jun 5, 2006)

I only catch sheepshead!


----------



## nuecesdave (Feb 14, 2011)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Im not trying to butt heads with my fellow 2coolers but you said it brother! AS FOR RIGHT NOW...thats what we thought in the early 80's when we used to go out gigging and drag back 30 flounder a night until a few years later they started getting hard to come by. Not arguing, keep ten trout, its all of our right! Just for right now though. Im being difficult this morning, i gotta get out and go fishing asap! Im out guys, keep it clean!
> 
> -mac-


Hey Smack, not to bust your b*lls or nothing, but back in the early 80's were you born yet?...lol!! Just playing.....I get to fish with a lot of those guys in the book, including my dad, you should hear the stories from back in the 70's and early 80's. Most all fish were kept for braggin' rights...there was hardly any talk, aside from GCCA about conservation. I was just old enough to experience great fishing before the big freeze of 83 and the croaker craze hit. It's real tough to say if dropping it to 5 would be really beneficial, but there's 3 times the fishermen out there today than there were 30 years back. I told Scott that I think either put a 45 day ban on croaker or limit what the baitstands can sell between Apr-May, and maybe drop the limit to 7. I don't think banning croaker altogether is fair, but giving the spawners a chance to lay eggs during that time can really improve the outcome. It's simple, other baits used target various species; croaker are bought to target trout, and a spawner can't resist them!! :spineyes:


----------



## greenhornet (Apr 21, 2010)

A 5 fish limit seems like a no brainer to me, it really boils down to whether we want to be proactive or reactive. The numbers of boats on the water have skyrocketed the last few years and if you keep allowing the same bag numbers that were allowed previous to the increase in fishing something has to give. 

Taking the attitude of "I still catch fish so we don't have to change anything" is like saying my truck is running just fine, why should I change the oil? Guess what, I still catch fish too and I hope 10,20,30 years from now I can still make that statement.


----------



## Smackdaddy53 (Nov 4, 2011)

Yes nuecesdave, im 30 so i was around in the 80's, nine years! Im no ol' salt but it was noticeably better fishing then. Do whatever you want guys, we all will anyway! Im goin fishin tomorrow


-mac-


----------



## KeithR (Jan 30, 2006)

I think the fishing is as good today as it was in the 70's and 80's prior to the freeze. I will agree there are more fisherman but the fishery is healthy as indicated by surveys. My catching has not suffered at all once the fish rebounded from the 83 freeze. I have changed the ways and areas I fish but they are still there. 

I do appreciate the book review, it saved me from wasting money on propaganda/agenda I don't necessarily agree with.


----------



## MAGNUM (Jun 25, 2004)

The argument that croaker kill fish is like the one that guns kill people. People kill people and people kill the fish.  Banning a bait is not the answer, changing the attitude of the fisherman is answer. If that doesn't work, change the limits.


----------



## nuecesdave (Feb 14, 2011)

MAGNUM said:


> The argument that croaker kill fish is like the one that guns kill people. People kill people and people kill the fish. Banning a bait is not the answer, changing the attitude of the fisherman is answer. If that doesn't work, change the limits.


 I have to disagree on that. When croaker fishing, you have to let that fish swallow the bait and actually run with it before hookset. So, more often, the fish has the hook either too far down to extract, or stuck in his gills. Yes, it happens with all baits and lures from time to time, but it's been a couple of years since I lost one where the hook was too far to extract. Good luck tomorrow Smack, my friday is actually tomorrow night, and you can rest assured I'll be hitting it weds.!!!


----------



## specks&ducks (Nov 9, 2010)

We are finally starting to see a positive shift in attitudes with regard to releasing quality trout and people not going on meat hauls. Bass fisherman figured this out in the 80's, The LLM trout fishing has taken off in just the short time they implemented the 5 fish limit and we have seen flounder fishing improve in just one year after the new restrictions. One of the posts above is right on, it's all about attitude adjustment. It's not elitist, just common sense. It amazes me there are still guys out there who can't see this. 
By the way, I read the book also, great read. The guy knows what he is talking about.


----------



## nuecesdave (Feb 14, 2011)

This book tells the greats of how trout fishing has been and how it can be better. To me, things are geared more towards conservation today than they were 20 years ago, but I still think more can be done. I remember being a kid, catching trout over 24 inches on a pretty regular basis, now you really have to be on your game to find them. Read the stories and the statistics and judge it for yourself.


----------



## Truchas (Oct 3, 2011)

*Read it*

*I couldn't agree more with you guys. I guess that I would have to sum up my feelings about the book as one of the postcripts reads, " The Best Book Ever Written About Texas Trout". It's a great book. The one thing I would say is, don't judge a book by it's cover, in other words, READ IT before you comment on it. By the way, the author doesn't say we should ban croaker, but many of the outstanding fishing guides and private anglers in the book say that we should. Many of these trout fishing icons say that we should go to a five fish limit and that the growing number of fishing guides (currently about 1000) is having a negative impact on our fishery. In my opinion, this read is good for the fishery and good for all Texas fishermen. Muchas Truchas*


----------



## Sow Trout (Jun 28, 2004)

I need to go fishing with you.


KeithR said:


> I think the fishing is as good today as it was in the 70's and 80's prior to the freeze. I will agree there are more fisherman but the fishery is healthy as indicated by surveys. My catching has not suffered at all once the fish rebounded from the 83 freeze. I have changed the ways and areas I fish but they are still there.
> 
> I do appreciate the book review, it saved me from wasting money on propaganda/agenda I don't necessarily agree with.


----------



## Smackdaddy53 (Nov 4, 2011)

I know thats right! If these two guys that say they catch just as many fish as they always have, if not more, i want to know what im missing. I can go catch a stringer of trout but not a bunch of quality fish. I guess im not as good of a fisherman as i was "back in my day" or im just always on schoolies. I will try to redeem myself tomorrow morning and catch some relaxation!


-mac-


----------



## Cork & Jig (Jan 5, 2010)

Again, why go to a five fish limit? The daily average is 1/10 that amount. What will this accomplish?

Some of y'all point to the perceived success of this tactic in the LLM. But, IMO, the LLM was in fine shape before implementing this change. We never had trouble catching lots of quality fish there, either. A good friend of mine was regularly bi-passing the ULM to fish the LLM because he found it easier to catch giant trout there than in his home waters of the ULM previous to the limit change. 

And, trout fishing isn't bass fishing. You're not fishing a lake that has defined boundaries, for one thing. Also, bass spawn once in the Spring, trout spawn every 3 to 5 days from springtime until Fall. That's a ton of eggs from every 1' long trout and bigger every year. 

If you really want to help trout, then we need to stop allowing the dumping of redfish fingerlings into the bays during "unnatural" times of the year. They are being released during the same periods that trout are spawning. This creates serious competition for available resources between the fingerlings because they both eat the same things.

Mother Nature has everything worked out. Trout spawn opposite the times when redfish do for a reason. This helps to alleviate competition from similarly sized fingerlings trying to eat the same prey. Plus, redfish fingerlings are exceptionally aggressive and will readily eat a smaller trout.


----------



## Smackdaddy53 (Nov 4, 2011)

I have seem the quality fish that you and your buddies catch, thats awesome man! Im just saying that if tpwd changes the limit they obviously have done their research and its for a reason. Theres no conspiracy involved! As many fish as you catch and as much as you fish id think you would want whats best for our fishery. Maybe you know something that years of gamefish management has missed and you should share your knowlege with the tpwd. All i am saying is what would a 5 fish limit hurt? With all the flounder and reds most of us catch five trout is more than enough unless youre cooking fish for the whole neighborhood


-mac-


----------



## Truchas (Oct 3, 2011)

*Five fish now*

It is really a no brainer on the five fish limit. Just look at what the fishermen did in the Lower Laguna Madre, that's right the fishermen, because TPWD would have never got it done without the support of the fishermen and their push to bring their trout fishery back. In just a few years this move has paid huge divideneds in trout fishing, both quanity and quality. These guys in the Valley have it together for sure. If you want to catch lots of fish and big fish, it's not Baffin anymore, it's the Lower Laguna. Who could be against it, how many fish does it take to make one happy, how can we expect not to do anything with the TX popualtion of folks doubling in 25 years? Five is the deal. Muchas Truchas


----------



## shalor57 (Feb 24, 2005)

I appreciate that some 2cooler's say there are just as many trout and big trout as ever...but I have fished with Cliff Webb and David Rowsey, and if they say there are way less big trout than there were 10-15 yrs ago, then I believe it. Those guys are living legends in my book. I might believe there are just as many little and keeper trout as ever, but I think somthing or someone is removing the vast majority of them before they become 25". That is not to say that you can't still catch some gator trout, b/c u can...but read the book and listen to what they use to catch...Cliff has a 10 fish 100lb limit mounted on the wall, and I've seen it.
Rowsey fishes 150 plus days a year for big trout, and if he says there is less....by the way he can still catch a few too i.e. last 2 Baffin Bashes.


----------



## greenhornet (Apr 21, 2010)

Cork & Jig said:


> Again, why go to a five fish limit? The daily average is 1/10 that amount. What will this accomplish?
> 
> Some of y'all point to the perceived success of this tactic in the LLM. But, IMO, the LLM was in fine shape before implementing this change. We never had trouble catching lots of quality fish there, either. A good friend of mine was regularly bi-passing the ULM to fish the LLM because he found it easier to catch giant trout there than in his home waters of the ULM previous to the limit change.
> 
> .


That's odd because I have seen comments by several LLM fishermen stating that numbers and size have improved since the limit change.


----------



## specks&ducks (Nov 9, 2010)

Anyone who knows and fishes the LLM will tell you the quality of fish has improved. BECAUSE FEWER FISH ARE BEING REMOVED AND THEREFORE MORE CAN REACH A LARGER SIZE!! I have fished with Rowsey and Cochran several times, both will tell you there are fewer large trout in Baffin and northwards. 
Need more proof, go look at the dozens of pictures that very reputable guides and good fisherman post on this website, when there are numbers involved they are all 15 to 20 inch trout with an occasional kicker thrown in. These guys fish all the time. I'm notIknocking them because my stringers looks the same. 
I'm encouraged that more people are now "getting it" about how to improve the fishery.


----------



## nuecesdave (Feb 14, 2011)

Mike Blackwood also told me the other day that it's not the same fishing anymore down in Baffin. He said he used to sight cast several big sows 15-20 years ago, and now he's lucky to find one or two to throw to, if that. I understand some people look at statistics and sometimes, they don't lie. The avg. fishing trip usually yields 1-2 trout, but also, what does that tell you? THERE'S NOT ENOUGH FISH TO GO AROUND. I can understand the frustration of someone driving down from SA or Austin, spend lots of money to get here, get gas, bait, and go out only to catch 1-2 trout. There has to be a reason for that. Maybe they're just weekend warriors, but regardless, if we had plenty of fish in the bays, the avg. caught would be higher.


----------



## specks&ducks (Nov 9, 2010)

NuecesDave, I agree with you. I'm not a croaker fisherman but I don't want to tell someone they can't use bait, I don't want take away anyone's legal right. However, croaker fishing in the summer has put a huge drain on quality fish. I really don't see how anyone can argue this. That in conjunction with overall increased pressure throughout the year has drained the quality fish. I use to catch quality trout, 20 to 25 inches on a regular basis up to about 6 or 7 years ago. Not anymore I can remember catching 28 inch trout off Traylor Island. Now a 25+ inch trout out of Aransas is pretty rare. 

I really think its going to come down to the fishing public becoming more aware, an attitude change. TPWD catches a lot heat from both sides. In the meantime, I keep only what I'll eat for a day or two. Many times I release all my fish.


----------



## Cork & Jig (Jan 5, 2010)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> I have seem the quality fish that you and your buddies catch, thats awesome man! Im just saying that if tpwd changes the limit they obviously have done their research and its for a reason. Theres no conspiracy involved! As many fish as you catch and as much as you fish id think you would want whats best for our fishery. Maybe you know something that years of gamefish management has missed and you should share your knowlege with the tpwd. All i am saying is what would a 5 fish limit hurt? With all the flounder and reds most of us catch five trout is more than enough unless youre cooking fish for the whole neighborhood
> 
> -mac-


Btw, my father helped gather statistics for TPWD for 33 years. He doesn't see any issues, either. He caught this undersized trout not far from Palacios, yesterday. It wasn't his only one, either.










But, as you stated, I obviously know nothing about the trout fishery..... I realize that I'm not gonna change any minds, here, either.

Ya'll can carry on discussing how bad things are.....I'm gonna go to bed, and get some rest, so I can get up in the morning and catch a bunch of fish that don't exist.....


----------



## Wompam (Mar 6, 2012)

Long time lurker, first time poster... I have a house in port Mansfield and live in Galveston, we fish from the valley to Venice. The same year they lowered the limit in the LLM, there was a massive amount of rainfall & runoff in the bay system. The bait followed & so did the fish. I think there is times of flourish and times of drought, like everything else in nature. We have caught and continue to catch 25"+ fish on a regular basis up and down the coast. I agree that pressure has increased dramatically, but I don't agree with more government control over where we fish, how we get there & what we use to do it. It amazes me how people on this website & others string 4-5 pound fish for bragging rights & then banter on about "no croaker, must change limit, no shallow running boats, need to change now!" there are plenty of "trophy fish" being caught, just because you don't see it posted every other day doesn't mean it's not happening, my .02


----------



## Mike77015 (Dec 27, 2007)

specks&ducks said:


> Anyone who knows and fishes the LLM will tell you the quality of fish has improved. BECAUSE FEWER FISH ARE BEING REMOVED AND THEREFORE MORE CAN REACH A LARGER SIZE!! I have fished with Rowsey and Cochran several times, both will tell you there are fewer large trout in Baffin and northwards.
> Need more proof, go look at the dozens of pictures that very reputable guides and good fisherman post on this website, when there are numbers involved they are all 15 to 20 inch trout with an occasional kicker thrown in. These guys fish all the time. I'm notIknocking them because my stringers looks the same.
> I'm encouraged that more people are now "getting it" about how to improve the fishery.


A guides job is to get a limit of fish or near limits. Unless the client ask to Trophy Trout Hunt the guide is going for quantity even if that means working birds. When fishing quantities they tend to be smaller trout.

Also the OP's comment about being on a shoreline in Baffin and have a boat run between them and the shore, would you rather that boat run over the shallow water rocks to get around you. In alot of the areas if you get off the shoreline you will lose your lower unit.


----------



## Mike77015 (Dec 27, 2007)

Was there any mention in the book about bycatch from the shrimpers? I wonder if keeping 10 trout per person add's up to even 25% of the trout shrimpers kill.


----------



## [email protected] (May 24, 2004)

*About that shrimp bycatch...*

Shrimping effort is but a tiny fraction of what it used to be and bay trawl bycatch is all but a thing of the past - thanks to rising cost of operation (especially diesel fuel) and local seafood markets being overrun by domestic farm-raised and imported product. TPWD says overall effort is down almost 90% coastwide.


----------



## paymerick (May 19, 2010)

I say ban croaker, baitcasters, popping corks and Trout Support DVDs...


----------



## Smackdaddy53 (Nov 4, 2011)

Cork & Jig said:


> Btw, my father helped gather statistics for TPWD for 33 years. He doesn't see any issues, either. He caught this undersized trout not far from Palacios, yesterday. It wasn't his only one, either.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No one said you dont know anything brother! I said maybe you should let tpwd abs others know what theyre doubg wrong (releasing redfish fingerlings year round) is what i meant. No one said a man cant go out and catch a 26" trout or two like the one in the picture. Nice fish by the way, we used to fish in front of oyster lake and catch them like that on corkies but ive not been there in years. 
As for running between a wadefisher and the shore, you guys ever think about slowing down? Kinda hard to lose a lower unit on baffin rocks if youre not at wot. Id imagine id be ticked too if someone ran behind me like that as well. Guys running boats with only one thing on their mind-getting where their going and screw the other guys! 
As far as the shrimp net bycatch, measures are and have been taken and as EJ said, bay bycatch and from recent statistics shrimping efforts are down. Here is a statistic i found:

"Bycatch of this species in other fisheries is low OR bycatch of this species in other fisheries inhibits its recovery, but effective measures are being taken to reduce it over a large portion of the range.
Speckled Trout are caught as bycatch in fisheries for crustaceans and finfish (ASMFC 2011) but catch rates appear to be fairly low. For example, Speckled Trout have been found as bycatch in the Texas shrimp trawl fishery (Blanchet et al. 2001) and catch rates in the Tampa Bay roller frame trawl fishery have been estimated at 0.33 fish/net minute to 0.78 fish/net minute depending on the season (Meyer et al. 1991). A study conducted on otter trawlers in Florida's Gulf coast determined only 0.092% of the catch was made up of Speckled Trout (Coleman et al. 1992). Speckled Trout are also caught as bycatch (3rd most common) on trotlines (a type of longline) targeting black drum in Texas (McEachron et al. 1987)."

Unless shrimp boats have gotten much faster these days these numbers should be acceptable even though some are old statistics.

Im done ranting, being misinterpreted and stating my opinions once again.

-mac-


----------



## specks&ducks (Nov 9, 2010)

Cork, no one is preaching about how bad things are, just voicing opinions about how things could be improved. I went over my fishing logs and although they are not always maintained after every trip I always record a good fish, usually anything over 25 inches. I have a house in Rockport and fish about 70 days a year, mostly in the late fall, winter and early spring. I don't use bait unless my nieces and nephews are with me. I fish from Second chain in San Antonio Bay to Nine mile hole. I'm not a biologist but I do study the state of the fishery quite a bit and I talk with quite a few guides and serious fisherman on a regular basis. I'm glad you and your dad are catching nice trout, I still catch some also, but not near as many. That's point I and few others are trying to make.


----------



## Smackdaddy53 (Nov 4, 2011)

Thank you!


-mac-


----------



## cpthook (Jan 16, 2008)

The fact of the matter is trophy trout are few and far between. What is a trophy? Its different for everyone. But a big Texas trophy trout is a 29 to 32 inch plus trout weighting 9 to 11 pounds. How many of these have you caught recently, exactly thats what I thought. Five and six pound fish seem to be more prevalent but the real brutes are almost non-existant, unless you venture to Baffin and even then it may take years to get a real brute. I'm not saying there are none left but they are getting rare. If we act now we cna save our trophy trout future. On my boat we have caught several 23 and 24 inch trout in the last couple weeks, and that is targeting trout not trophy fish. Its simple our trophy fish are deminishing, a 29 inch fish is approximately 8 to 9 years old, and represent less then 0.5 % of the trout population. We need to act now if we want to reverse this. It will take us the fishermen to do this. I realize allot of people are saying no no no, but I also think there are more that are for it.


----------



## Mike77015 (Dec 27, 2007)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> No one said you dont know anything brother! I said maybe you should let tpwd abs others know what theyre doubg wrong (releasing redfish fingerlings year round) is what i meant. No one said a man cant go out and catch a 26" trout or two like the one in the picture. Nice fish by the way, we used to fish in front of oyster lake and catch them like that on corkies but ive not been there in years.
> As for running between a wadefisher and the shore, you guys ever think about slowing down? Kinda hard to lose a lower unit on baffin rocks if youre not at wot. Id imagine id be ticked too if someone ran behind me like that as well. Guys running boats with only one thing on their mind-getting where their going and screw the other guys!
> As far as the shrimp net bycatch, measures are and have been taken and as EJ said, bay bycatch and from recent statistics shrimping efforts are down. Here is a statistic i found:
> 
> ...


You might want to consider that WOT it is kicking up a smaller wake than at slower speeds, also this allows to run in the shallower water. If they throttled back and was not able to idle close to the shore due to the shallow water they are going to have to go to deeper water which, imagine this, is exactly where you are wading/fishing. The shoreline that you are talking about most of the boats are heading to the cut and not fishing in Baffin anyway so imagine how long of an idle that is.


----------



## capt. david (Dec 29, 2004)

just kill them all! then we would have nothing to argue about!!! lmao


----------



## flatsprowler (Jul 1, 2008)

shalor57 said:


> I posted something of the same nature after I read the book and had many negative responses about elitist attitudes...however I am totally with you. Lower the trout limit to 5, and half to 2/3 of croaker soaking guides will be gone as will much of the over fishing problem. Catching trout in May/June is so fun and really so easy, it amazes me when I fish the ULM/Baffin that time of year, that most people are soaking croakers...Give me a topwater blowup or corky thump anyday.


Exactly...it just takes a few more casts when chunking hardware. I can catch a limit on croaker or hardware I just prefer croaker...the bite is usually much more exciting (no doubt setting the hook is more fun) and my shoulder does not hurt as bad after fishing croaker. Croaker are sold out on the weekends an hour after daylight and a fish is not caught on each croaker. I have fished with people who simply cannot catch fish on croaker with any consistency but do pretty good using hardware. And vice versa. You want to ban fishing with shrimp too.......I can catch a limit pretty easy with them as well....boils down to knowing how to locate the fish. Hell lets ban fishing with piggies, menhaden/pogies, mullet, gulp, etc.(they are all excellent trout baits) However I don't have a problem with the five fish limit....five fish is plenty for dinner....hopefully nobody would be saying you can't catch and release.


----------



## flatsprowler (Jul 1, 2008)

cpthook said:


> The fact of the matter is trophy trout are few and far between. What is a trophy? Its different for everyone. But a big Texas trophy trout is a 29 to 32 inch plus trout weighting 9 to 11 pounds. How many of these have you caught recently, exactly thats what I thought. Five and six pound fish seem to be more prevalent but the real brutes are almost non-existant, unless you venture to Baffin and even then it may take years to get a real brute. I'm not saying there are none left but they are getting rare. If we act now we cna save our trophy trout future. On my boat we have caught several 23 and 24 inch trout in the last couple weeks, and that is targeting trout not trophy fish. Its simple our trophy fish are deminishing, a 29 inch fish is approximately 8 to 9 years old, and represent less then 0.5 % of the trout population. We need to act now if we want to reverse this. It will take us the fishermen to do this. I realize allot of people are saying no no no, but I also think there are more that are for it.


Might not be thought of as a trophy if there are bunches of them.....doesn't also have alot to do with genetics.....or will all six pound trout eventually be 10 pound trout?


----------



## flatsprowler (Jul 1, 2008)

nuecesdave said:


> Hey Smack, not to bust your b*lls or nothing, but back in the early 80's were you born yet?...lol!! Just playing.....I get to fish with a lot of those guys in the book, including my dad, you should hear the stories from back in the 70's and early 80's. Most all fish were kept for braggin' rights...there was hardly any talk, aside from GCCA about conservation. I was just old enough to experience great fishing before the big freeze of 83 and the croaker craze hit. It's real tough to say if dropping it to 5 would be really beneficial, but there's 3 times the fishermen out there today than there were 30 years back. I told Scott that I think either put a 45 day ban on croaker or limit what the baitstands can sell between Apr-May, and maybe drop the limit to 7. I don't think banning croaker altogether is fair, but giving the spawners a chance to lay eggs during that time can really improve the outcome. It's simple, other baits used target various species; croaker are bought to target trout, and a spawner can't resist them!! :spineyes:


Don't forget, Redfish love croaker too.


----------



## Wompam (Mar 6, 2012)

cpthook said:


> The fact of the matter is trophy trout are few and far between. What is a trophy? Its different for everyone. But a big Texas trophy trout is a 29 to 32 inch plus trout weighting 9 to 11 pounds. How many of these have you caught recently, exactly thats what I thought. Five and six pound fish seem to be more prevalent but the real brutes are almost non-existant, unless you venture to Baffin and even then it may take years to get a real brute. I'm not saying there are none left but they are getting rare. If we act now we cna save our trophy trout future. On my boat we have caught several 23 and 24 inch trout in the last couple weeks, and that is targeting trout not trophy fish. Its simple our trophy fish are deminishing, a 29 inch fish is approximately 8 to 9 years old, and represent less then 0.5 % of the trout population. We need to act now if we want to reverse this. It will take us the fishermen to do this. I realize allot of people are saying no no no, but I also think there are more that are for it.


I think your info is a little off there cphook, I've personally caught dozens of 28 to 32 1/2 inch fish in my life and never broke 9 lbs. as recently as last month, we caught 5 fish in the 29- 30 inch range in the Galveston bay complex up to 8 lbs. Even the legendary Rudy Grugar only caught 2 legitimate 10 lb fish from WWII to the 80's. Your idea of a trophy and everybody else's differs, but to say you think there's few and far between around is ridiculous. I saw one of those white elephants in my lights last week, just cause YOU don't catch them doesn't mean others don't. The idea that others should give up there right to fish how they want and where they want..........go fishing, quit belly aching!


----------



## Truchas (Oct 3, 2011)

*Capt Hook is Right on target*

Well said capt. hook. TPWD data clearly shows what you just mentioned. My concern is not just for those trophy fish that are diminishing, but just healthy legal size trout in general. I happen to attend a public scoping meeting on trout in San Antonio sometime ago and the question was asked by a guy in the audience to everyone there, " Would every one in the audience please raise their hand who truly belives that their Texas trout fishing is what it used to be". One hand went up. TPWD data is the best stuff going to manage our fisheries. That's what the fishing folks in the Valley determined when they voted for a five fish limit. Who could argue with the results, more fish and better fish. Hard to argue with this success story. Muchas Truchas


----------



## CaptDocHoliday (Feb 3, 2011)

capt mullet said:


> The bass guys have done great with catch and release. they promote it through the ranks and it has trickled down to the average angler. That is what we need!


I'd guess that the overwhelming majority of bass that get caught are released. With that said, the frequency I catch a truly 'trophy' bass (equivalent to a 29" trout) is about the same as how often I catch a trophy trout. Not saying C&R is bad, but less harvest doesnt necesarily equate to more 'trophy' fish.

For example, you can take 10 bucks and let them grow naturally in a natural environment (no feeding, average vegitation mix), and not all of those deer will become 150"+ deer. Genetics plays a MUCH bigger role than quantity in my opinion under natural conditions. To get one 200" deer from the 10 would be really really good.


----------



## specks&ducks (Nov 9, 2010)

NuecesDave, I sent you a PM but you've got it blocked


----------



## specks&ducks (Nov 9, 2010)

I really enjoy the threads and posts on quality trout, neat to see peoples thoughts. Capt.Dave, I usually agree with your posts, but I have to say that catching a 10lb bass is far easier than a 29 inch trout. There are probably 20 lakes in Texas you could spend 1 week of fishing on in the spring and your chances of catching a 10 pounder is pretty good, matter of fact, I would take the odds. A solid of week of fishing on Baffin or E. Matty or any other decent big trout bay - I wouldn't feel near as confident of catching a 29 inch trout. But I do agree with you 100% on the genetics. 

Wompan - if you have caught dozens of 28 plus inch trout out of Galveston bay your the one that should be writing the book!! That's awesome. I'm 51 years old, born in Corpus and have fished the Coastal Bend my whole life, I have 4 trout over 29 inches, and only one came out of Baffin.


----------

