# Hogs eat snakes?



## tec (Jul 20, 2007)

I only see a snake every couple of years or so on my place up near Centerville and my neighbor told me the hogs eat them so there aren't as many as there used to be. I also used to get ticks a lot years ago but seldom now. He said that is about the only advantage to having fire ants. Sounds logical.


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## Rack Ranch (May 25, 2004)

Hogs eat anything but hogs..


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

Yep, they will eat almost anything. Supposedly the newest generations of rattle snakes either don't rattle or rattle very little because the hogs hear the rattling and eat them. Evolution is the ones that don't rattle much live to reproduce. Not sure if it is true, but makes sense.


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## jdusek (Apr 7, 2006)

HydraSports said:


> Yep, they will eat almost anything. Supposedly the newest generations of rattle snakes either don't rattle or rattle very little because the hogs hear the rattling and eat them. Evolution is the ones that don't rattle much live to reproduce. Not sure if it is true, but makes sense.


I have heard the same thing.


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## July Johnson (Mar 23, 2014)

One thing a hog wont eat is a bobcat,nothing eats bobcats not even the buzzards.


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## Jeff SATX (Jan 18, 2011)

Rack Ranch said:


> Hogs eat anything but hogs..


take that back. you don't want me to find the game cam pics of pigs eating dead rotting pigs from our gut pile... nasty creatures.


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## July Johnson (Mar 23, 2014)

HydraSports said:


> Yep, they will eat almost anything. Supposedly the newest generations of rattle snakes either don't rattle or rattle very little because the hogs hear the rattling and eat them. Evolution is the ones that don't rattle much live to reproduce. Not sure if it is true, but makes sense.


Those are the NEW rattle snakes.


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## bubbas kenner (Sep 4, 2010)

Jeff SATX said:


> take that back. you don't want me to find the game cam pileff pigs eating dead rotting pigs from our gut pile... nasty creatures.


What I was thinking seen it too .Guts left are always gone nothing but hog tracks left.


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## Rack Ranch (May 25, 2004)

Ok, I take it back.


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## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

> Ok, I take it back.


But you meant a whole live hog...we know. 

TH


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## coogerpop (Sep 3, 2009)

July Johnson said:


> One thing a hog wont eat is a bobcat,nothing eats bobcats not even the buzzards.


We killed a big bobcat on our lease near del Rio a few years back. After skinning it out we looked a t how nice the meat looked,put the loin on the grill and chicken fried some of t he ham.......it was great.....


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## dbarham (Aug 13, 2005)

coogerpop said:


> We killed a big bobcat on our lease near del Rio a few years back. After skinning it out we looked a t how nice the meat looked,put the loin on the grill and chicken fried some of t he ham.......it was great.....


I love cat


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## pg542 (Oct 9, 2006)

HydraSports said:


> Yep, they will eat almost anything. Supposedly the newest generations of rattle snakes either don't rattle or rattle very little because the hogs hear the rattling and eat them. Evolution is the ones that don't rattle much live to reproduce. Not sure if it is true, but makes sense.


...I've heard this same thing. The noisy ones are being removed from the gene pool. Wonder if there is any research to back it up??...Interesting


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## Law Dog (Jul 27, 2010)

Hogs will eat anything...


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## hog_down (Jan 11, 2010)

I trapped 4 yearling hogs and shot them in the trap. Drug them off 20 feet from the trap and cleaned them. Came back the next day and all 4 gut piles were gone. I was absolutely shocked.


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## AvianQuest (Feb 7, 2006)

Rack Ranch said:


> Hogs eat anything but hogs..


Hogs will eat dead or weak hogs.


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## Cynoscion (Jun 4, 2009)

AvianQuest said:


> Hogs will eat dead or weak hogs.


X10000

There's no research to back up the non rattling rattlesnake claim.

And....good bobcat dogs (and most good cat dog men) will eat a bobcat.


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## poco jim (Jun 28, 2010)

Boars will eat everything but the oink of a small pig!


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## AvianQuest (Feb 7, 2006)

Cynoscion said:


> There's no research to back up the non rattling rattlesnake claim.


Hogs don't need to hear or see rattlesnakes. Their best sense is smell and if they are down wind they can smell a snake (or anything) long before they are in hearing or seeing range.

But although no research was ever conducted, it's my firm belief that the reason a larger percentage of non-rattling rattlesnakes exist is because as this country was settled, everyone would kill the ones that had the most propensity to expose themselves by rattling. Over time, the ones that seldom rattled weren't noticed and thus passed on their non-rattling genes to their offspring.

Survival of the fittest, or of those who are able to adapt, is a well proven concept. There is no reason at all to believe that rattlesnakes are any different.


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## Cynoscion (Jun 4, 2009)

You are assuming that not rattling is a genetic trait and not a learned behavior.

Not arguing, just pointing out a flaw in the line of reasoning.


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## AvianQuest (Feb 7, 2006)

Cynoscion said:


> You are assuming that not rattling is a genetic trait and not a learned behavior.
> 
> Not arguing, just pointing out a flaw in the line of reasoning.


No, it's not a learn behavior at all. Try to teach a rattlesnake to do anything and get back with me.

It's a given that not all rattle snakes were equally aggressive at one time. Like people or any animal, there is some variance in aggressive attitude. This is a genetic trait which can certainly be passed on in some percentage.

Lets speculate that before people started flooding their habitat that 90% of rattlesnakes would start rattling when someone came close. These are the ones people killed. The 10% that tended not to rattle fared much better.

Over the last several hundred years we have inadvertently helped to breed a far larger percentage of non-rattling snakes. It's no different than if a ranch started out with 90% brown cattle and 10% black cattle. If over a few hundred years they only sent the brown cattle off to auction, then they would end up with all, or nearly all black cattle. The cattle didn't learn to be black, it was genetics.


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## wet dreams (May 21, 2004)

Yrs back after they stocked 'Timber Rattlers' (Canebreak) in Lance Rozier unit of Big Thicket park, they found out the hogs were eating them, they (gov) proposed hiring a Gov trapper to eliminate all the hogs. AGAIN the locals raised 9 kinds of h3ll and won that battle, unlike the battle they lost on stocking the snakes in the first place. Yes a hog especially boars will eat pigs, a boar will kill and eat all the pigs he can so as to bring the sow back 'in' same as a tom-cat. BTW its been yrs since I saw a snake in the woods although I don't look for them.....WW


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## Cynoscion (Jun 4, 2009)

AvianQuest said:


> No, it's not a learn behavior at all. Try to teach a rattlesnake to do anything and get back with me.
> 
> It's a given that not all rattle snakes were equally aggressive at one time. Like people or any animal, there is some variance in aggressive attitude. This is a genetic trait which can certainly be passed on in some percentage.
> 
> ...


Trying to picture a guy saying sit and the rattlesnake sits. Yeah, probably not happening.

However, I again say that we are assuming it is genetic. Without mapping the rattlesnake genome, we will never know but I do understand the crazy cow has a crazy calf theory.

I would argue, however, that the snake that rattles is not the aggressive one. On the contrary. The individual that rattles is the more docile one. He is simply alerting the threat to his presence and is therefore protecting himself. The one that bites without threatening first (not rattling) is the aggressive one much like the guy who responds to every stressful situation with fight/flight instead of rational thinking which I don't believe is a genetic trait.


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## baitbuckett (Jan 9, 2011)

I walked up on a 6ft rattler last year and almost stepped on him, it was about midnight getting ready to go wack some hogs, he never made a single rattle... not until I hit em in the head with a machete and cut his head off..


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## AvianQuest (Feb 7, 2006)

Cynoscion said:


> I would argue, however, that the snake that rattles is not the aggressive one. On the contrary. The individual that rattles is the more docile one. He is simply alerting the threat to his presence and is therefore protecting himself. The one that bites without threatening first (not rattling) is the aggressive one much like the guy who responds to every stressful situation with fight/flight instead of rational thinking which I don't believe is a genetic trait.


Good point. I thought about that last night after doing that quick post. Rattling could be considered aggressive or defensive. I can't say which.

Is the snake saying "This is my territory and you get the hell away or I'm going to strike you", or is it saying "I'm here, please don't hurt me and I won't hurt you....just please go away because you are making me very uncomfortable and the last thing I want is to bite you...can't we all get along?"


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## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

AvianQuest said:


> Good point. I thought about that last night after doing that quick post. Rattling could be considered aggressive or defensive. I can't say which.
> 
> Is the snake saying "This is my territory and you get the hell away or I'm going to strike you", or is it saying "I'm here, please don't hurt me and I won't hurt you....just please go away because you are making me very uncomfortable and the last thing I want is to bite you...can't we all get along?"


He sure ain't saying "i'd make a great hatband"... LOL


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## Cynoscion (Jun 4, 2009)

AvianQuest said:


> Good point. I thought about that last night after doing that quick post. Rattling could be considered aggressive or defensive. I can't say which.
> 
> Is the snake saying "This is my territory and you get the hell away or I'm going to strike you", or is it saying "I'm here, please don't hurt me and I won't hurt you....just please go away because you are making me very uncomfortable and the last thing I want is to bite you...can't we all get along?"


Generally speaking (I love biology b/c you can say that, be almost wrong, but you're still kinda right) venomous snakes are venomous b/c they lack other adaptations for killing prey (think of constrictors). The venom is their only means of eating.

Successful life is a balance of energy in/energy out. It takes considerable energy to produce venom (something most snakes don't have to do). This comes at an energy cost. Therefore venomous snakes in general do not bite unless they know they are biting something edible or they have no other choice.

I believe that rattlesnakes can sense that people, cattle, deer, hogs, peccaries, etc. are too big to eat, therefore they do not choose to bite unless they have to (feel threatened). Remember that it takes energy to make venom and they can't afford to waste energy making venom and using it on something without an energy return.

I also believe that most rattlesnakes, when given the choice, would rather sneak out, unseen then rattle or bite a creature too big to eat. It just makes no biological sense for a snake to waste the energy biting something they can't eat. I believe the ones that don't sneak away, are caught by surprise by us. Remember that they don't see or hear well so they have to "feel" us coming. When taken by surprise, they have choices, although probably not conscious choices coming from a snake. They can either try to sneak away, rattle or bite. All of these expend energy with the last two burning the most, precious energy.


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## 10ERBETTER (Feb 24, 2008)

Over the last 30 years, I have walked up on and been within striking distance of more snakes (rattlesnakes, copperheads, moccasins, etc...) than I care to remember, but I've never been bit. Only had one cane break rattler strike at me. There has to be a reason.


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## jacksrbetter (Jul 6, 2012)

Personaly, I believe making noise is a genetic trait. My Mother-in-law made a lot of noise, my wife makes a lot of noise.....just sayin'


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## Brushpoppin (Jul 24, 2012)

Hogs eat snakes, birds eat snakes, even people eat snakes!!!


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## Spooley (Feb 24, 2013)

Hogs don't eat anything. They eat everything.


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## AvianQuest (Feb 7, 2006)

10ERBETTER said:


> Over the last 30 years, I have walked up on and been within striking distance of more snakes (rattlesnakes, copperheads, moccasins, etc...) than I care to remember, but I've never been bit. Only had one cane break rattler strike at me. There has to be a reason.


Some folks taste better than others?


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## AvianQuest (Feb 7, 2006)

jacksrbetter said:


> Personaly, I believe making noise is a genetic trait. My Mother-in-law made a lot of noise, my wife makes a lot of noise.....just sayin'


There you go.


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## T_rout (Jul 25, 2013)

AvianQuest said:


> Good point. I thought about that last night after doing that quick post. Rattling could be considered aggressive or defensive. I can't say which.
> 
> Is the snake saying "This is my territory and you get the hell away or I'm going to strike you", or is it saying "I'm here, please don't hurt me and I won't hurt you....just please go away because you are making me very uncomfortable and the last thing I want is to bite you...can't we all get along?"


There is a theory that rattlesnakes won't have rattles in the years to come because the ones that have fewer rattles are surviving better than the ones that have a bunch of rattles. Natural selection, the ones that don't rattle or have fewer rattles will pass on their genes.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## apbubba (Jul 25, 2007)

My father died when I was six years old. About sixty years ago. I only remember getting one whipping from him and that is when he came home and caught my nephew, who was one year younger than me, and me playing in the hog pens. Warmed up both our butts. Farmers use to go to the local auctions and buy old horses for a few dollars and take them back to their farms and shoot them to feed to the hogs. Hogs will eat anything including you. They can do a lot of physical damage to you in just a few seconds. Promise you that you will never find a snake in a hog pen.


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## spurgersalty (Jun 29, 2010)

T_rout said:


> There is a theory that rattlesnakes won't have rattles in the years to come because the ones that have fewer rattles are surviving better than the ones that have a bunch of rattles. Natural selection, the ones that don't rattle or have fewer rattles will pass on their genes.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


This is the only theory that can hold any water in this debate.
This BS about rattling snakes getting eaten and passing on a learned behavior of NOT rattling is utter nonsense. How does a snake, that has been eaten, pass on a learned behavior to its offspring if it can't even be there to pass on the learned behavior?


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## Alexnillo (Jan 10, 2008)

I was thinking of rattling up some deer this coming season.

I may not after all, don't want to get my head cut off.


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## Cynoscion (Jun 4, 2009)

spurgersalty said:


> This is the only theory that can hold any water in this debate.
> This BS about rattling snakes getting eaten and passing on a learned behavior of NOT rattling is utter nonsense. How does a snake, that has been eaten, pass on a learned behavior to its offspring if it can't even be there to pass on the learned behavior?


Wow! Your reading comprehension skills leave a lot to be desired if this is what you took away from the discussion here!

This theory that you say holds water is the dumbest one yet. What makes a rattle snake have rattles (shedding) is completely out of his control. Also the number of rattles each snake has is highly variable depending on how many times he sheds and the type of habitat he lives in (whether they break of or not). Therefore, these traits are not genetically reproducible and therefore cannot be passed on to subsequent generations.

Same discussion I've been having with Avian since the beginning of this thread except he comprehends what he reads.


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## T_rout (Jul 25, 2013)

Cynoscion said:


> Wow! Your reading comprehension skills leave a lot to be desired if this is what you took away from the discussion here!
> 
> This theory that you say holds water is the dumbest one yet. What makes a rattle snake have rattles (shedding) is completely out of his control. Also the number of rattles each snake has is highly variable depending on how many times he sheds and the type of habitat he lives in (whether they break of or not). Therefore, these traits are not genetically reproducible and therefore cannot be passed on to subsequent generations.
> 
> Same discussion I've been having with Avian since the beginning of this thread except he comprehends what he reads.


What causes a rattle snake to have rattles? You mentioned shedding, which is correct. Don't all snakes shed? So all snakes should have rattles correct? No, the rattle snake has a different genetic makeup that causes them to develop rattles. These genes can be passed on to future generations. It is a legit theory, there are a bunch of doctors studying the possibilities.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Cynoscion (Jun 4, 2009)

The amount/number of rattles a snake has is not genetic. It is a result of external factors and therefore cannot be passed on to future generations.

If you read some of my earlier posts, I explain why rattlesnakes evolved to have the ability to rattle and also why they are venomous.

Please post a link to the research you are referring to.

Thanks


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## daddyeaux (Nov 18, 2007)

It is my understanding that rattlesnakes rattle to warn approaching subjects that they are too close as a defensive measure before striking. 
Rattles on the tail are a sign of age, the older the snake the more rattles it will have.
I have also seen water moccasins rattle their tails on the ground to make noise in the same manner as to warn the approaching subject they are too close. First hand experience on that one, it stopped me from getting bit by a very large moccasin. Was on a creek bottom and stopped for a moment, heard a very loud buzzing type noise, looked around and saw a very huge moccasin about 3 feet from my right leg next to a tree and the end of his tail was shaking 90 miles an hour in the leaves, all coiled up head up and mouth wide open in strike mode. 
After I messed my pants I slowly removed the 357 from the holster and disposed of his head.
I have snake boots now.


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## T_rout (Jul 25, 2013)

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=216924322

Here's a link to one of the studies. One of my profs told me about some of the other studies.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## activescrape (Jan 8, 2006)

I have hundreds of pics from our gut pile cam, maybe thousands. Hogs have been some of the rarest visitors. Just saying. Its mainly, skunks, *****, possums, foxes, bobcats, coyotes, buzzards, etc. San Saba county Tx, and we have plenty of hogs on the property. Will they eat other hogs, I'm sure they will, snakes, absolutely, but they don't seem to be especially fond of the gut pile according to my thousands of pics. 
I have bobcat recipes from my old Field and Stream magazines, and know several people that have eaten them and say they are very good. I would too, but I don't plan to be shooting any more unless given a reason.


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## Cynoscion (Jun 4, 2009)

Number of rattles are not a sign of age. It is simply a count of how many times the individual has shed and even that is a misnomer b/c they can and do break off.

Thanks for the link T_rout


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## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

activescrape said:


> I have hundreds of pics from our gut pile cam, maybe thousands. Hogs have been some of the rarest visitors. Just saying. Its mainly, skunks, *****, possums, foxes, bobcats, coyotes, buzzards, etc. San Saba county Tx, and we have plenty of hogs on the property. Will they eat other hogs, I'm sure they will, snakes, absolutely, but they don't seem to be especially fond of the gut pile according to my thousands of pics.
> I have bobcat recipes from my old Field and Stream magazines, and know several people that have eaten them and say they are very good. I would too, but I don't plan to be shooting any more unless given a reason.


They like newborn lambs for sure... All they leave behind is the hide and hooves. All the rattlers we had in Junction pretty much went nocturnal once we had a hog problem. Hardly ever saw one during the day unless you turned over a big rock, stump or ground blind. Only exception was in clumps of grass in or near protein feeders... where they would coil up and wait on stuff coming to eat the dropped deer feed.


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## Cynoscion (Jun 4, 2009)

Wish I had seen that was an NPR link before I clicked on it. My brain feels poisoned for reading it!


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## daddyeaux (Nov 18, 2007)

What is NPR?


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## jacksrbetter (Jul 6, 2012)

NPR means National Pro-Rattles, bunch of sissies who want all snakes to rattle because they are scared.


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## Cynoscion (Jun 4, 2009)

Haha.

National Public Radio. Libtards. Jungle stuff


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## ksk (Aug 9, 2008)

apbubba said:


> My father died when I was six years old. About sixty years ago. I only remember getting one whipping from him and that is when he came home and caught my nephew, who was one year younger than me, and me playing in the hog pens. Warmed up both our butts. Farmers use to go to the local auctions and buy old horses for a few dollars and take them back to their farms and shoot them to feed to the hogs. Hogs will eat anything including you. They can do a lot of physical damage to you in just a few seconds. Promise you that you will never find a snake in a hog pen.


So true.Several times running the rivers in Nam,we would come on hogs eating VC that had been killed and floated down stream.Good hogs,better Charlie.


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## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

Cynoscion said:


> Haha.
> 
> National Public Radio. Libtards. Jungle stuff


Example of good NPR radio... LOL

https://screen.yahoo.com/npr-delicious-dish-dusty-muffin-000000345.html


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## spurgersalty (Jun 29, 2010)

Cynoscion said:


> Wow! Your reading comprehension skills leave a lot to be desired if this is what you took away from the discussion here!
> 
> This theory that you say holds water is the dumbest one yet. What makes a rattle snake have rattles (shedding) is completely out of his control. Also the number of rattles each snake has is highly variable depending on how many times he sheds and the type of habitat he lives in (whether they break of or not). Therefore, these traits are not genetically reproducible and therefore cannot be passed on to subsequent generations.
> 
> Same discussion I've been having with Avian since the beginning of this thread except he comprehends what he reads.


My reading comprehension is just fine. 
Now, to address your points. On the point of rattles and insinuating they have no control, I again say BS. Mother nature has a mechanism in place to counteract most threats of extinction. One that takes many years to happen. It's called evolution. Heard of it? Not exactly under the snakes control, but, their is a form of control. Have you ever heard of other other snakes that don't possess rattles? Strange anomalies I'm sure. How are their populations faring? Any real stats to back up any of these made up "theories" of snakes not rattling? 
Now,why could Trout's theory not hold water? Over time the amount of rattles(remember evolution?), would continuously decrease until they were similar to their cousins like the copperhead and moccasin, both without rattles if you hadn't noticed. 
And again, to say a snake, a dead one at that, can pass on a learned behavior after death, is utter nonsense.


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## Cynoscion (Jun 4, 2009)

If you will read and comprehend, all of my posts in this thread, I have made very valid arguments as to why rattlesnakes rattle, don't rattle and/or sneak out undetected.

You like to cite evolution in your posts. I would be willing to bet that I have taken and made better grades in more upper level evolutionary theory courses than you have ever thought of attending.

You also suggest that a rattlesnake may eventually "evolve" to not have a rattle at all similar to their cousins but what you fail to realize is that eons ago, rattlesnakes did not have rattles. They evolved this adaptation as a means of warning so they didn't have to expend unnecessary energy biting. All of this is in my previous posts. READING COMPREHENSION.

Rattlesnakes are more highly evolved than our other venomous snakes b/c of their rattles. Go back and read someone's earlier post about the cottonmouth shaking his tail. It is easy to imagine how one could go from this primitive rattling to a more advanced rattling mechanism over eons.

I know you don't want to hear it, but all I've done here is restate truths that I posted earlier that you failed to comprehend.


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## Cynoscion (Jun 4, 2009)

Also, I never said they would pass on the learned behavior of not rattling? Reading comprehension again. I argued that not rattling is a learned behavior and not genetic therefore it cannot be passed on.

I do not believe that rattlesnakes are "learning" to not rattle. I believe that is non sense. They evolved for millions of years to rattle. We will not see it go away any time in our lifetime for sure.

And again, like I said in earlier posts, number of rattles is in no way genetic therefore a decrease in them cannot be passed on to future generations. If you read the link that T_rout posted, they are seeing snakes with atrophy in their tails, not a decrease in number of rattles. So if anything is happening, they are loosing muscle mass in their tales, not number of rattles. I seriously doubt this though, in our lifetime anyway.


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## daddyeaux (Nov 18, 2007)

LMAO.......WOW...all this just over Hogs Eating Snakes.......
The imagination is a terrible thing to waste......

I love this place.......Just sayin...


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## Cynoscion (Jun 4, 2009)

Haute Pursuit said:


> Example of good NPR radio... LOL
> 
> https://screen.yahoo.com/npr-delicious-dish-dusty-muffin-000000345.html


Exactly but usually with an agenda.


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

spurgersalty said:


> My reading comprehension is just fine.
> Now, to address your points. On the point of rattles and insinuating they have no control, I again say BS. Mother nature has a mechanism in place to counteract most threats of extinction. One that takes many years to happen. It's called evolution. Heard of it? Not exactly under the snakes control, but, their is a form of control. Have you ever heard of other other snakes that don't possess rattles? Strange anomalies I'm sure. How are their populations faring? Any real stats to back up any of these made up "theories" of snakes not rattling?
> Now,why could Trout's theory not hold water? Over time the amount of rattles(remember evolution?), would continuously decrease until they were similar to their cousins like the copperhead and moccasin, both without rattles if you hadn't noticed.
> And again, to say a snake, a dead one at that, can pass on a learned behavior after death, is utter nonsense.


Evolution does not hold water to me. Rattlesnakes were created different than copperheads and moccasins and they will always be different than copperheads and moccasins. It will never happen.


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## daddyeaux (Nov 18, 2007)

I'm thinking someone has been in the cow pasture sampling the mushrooms....


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## Rack Ranch (May 25, 2004)

Ooh-rah!!!



ksk said:


> so true.several times running the rivers in nam,we would come on hogs eating vc that had been killed and floated down stream.good hogs,better charlie.


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## SWC (Jun 20, 2009)

It's been scientifically proven, people who have more birthdays live longer!!!!!


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