# .223 on Deer - Shot placement



## CaptDocHoliday (Feb 3, 2011)

Granted it's not the best caliber around, where is the better location for shot placement, engine room or neck?

Here are the parameters of the shot:

<100 yards
broadside standing
quality bonded bullet

The point of this question is to determine shot placement, not debate the shooting of a deer with such a small caliber, so please try to stay on topic.

Thanks!


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## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

This is going to turn into a head shot thread, just sit back and watch.


I just bought an AR and we will be thinning out 90 more does this fall, so I am curious as well.


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## spurgersalty (Jun 29, 2010)

Tucked in tight to the shoulder, watched a buddys 8year old put 3 down in as many hunts with some 60 gr Partitions I loaded for him. All about 75-90 yards. The kiddo done his part, and the bullet done its.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Good bullet behind the shoulder, bad bullet in the ear..Please dont shoot any bad bullets.. Barnes X or equivalent


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## huntinguy (Aug 22, 2005)

CHARLIE said:


> Good bullet behind the shoulder, bad bullet in the ear..Please dont shoot any bad bullets.. Barnes X or equivalent


This!


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## Fishin' Soldier (Dec 25, 2007)

Ear, pr point of shoulder. HIT THE POINT!


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## TXPalerider (May 21, 2004)

Both will work. I prefer a neck shot.


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## TXNavalOperator (Sep 7, 2011)

A 223 is a fine caliber to take down any North American Whitetal deer. It's all about shot placement. A good shot to the pump house or neck will work. Insted of asking what others think, ask yourself "what shot are you the most comfortable taking?". Some people are not as comfortable taking a neck shot as say one behind the shoulder. As for anyone saying a 223 is not an adequate round for such a task really has no clue. So IMO its all up to you. A well placed shot behind the shoulder will drop one just as quick as in the neck.


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## h-meier (Jun 22, 2010)

TXNavalOperator said:


> It's all about shot placement.


Where ever you are most comfortable and *confident* in the placement of the shot. Truly a personal choice or preference.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

I have to dis agree with some of the above. If the shot placement is perfect and the bullet is bad things dont work. Seen bad 223 bullets blow up on the rib cage and not penetrate. Just sayn from first hand experience. Heavy big bad bullet it really makes no difference the lead will penetrate whitetail. Little bad bullet (223) doesent work.


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## cva34 (Dec 22, 2008)

*Placement*

Doc Of the choices Lungs is it .Its the biggest target with more room for error.If high you get backbone;if low get heart ;if forward get shoulders; if back you get liver or Dead center Lungs ..As long you get penetration You got Him. Neck shot is great if you hit neck bone or juggler vein/ art.Otherwise its windpipe/neck muscle.I have seen many head shots with lower or uper jaw shot off..And tracked deer with a Hole in windpipe with blood runing in damaged area its a Sound you really do not want to Hear again....Just remember its not the caliber its where you Hit Them and have penetration..We're not talking FMJ( Armor Piercing) were talking a mushrooming penetrating type ..The other Factor ;I see problems with is ;Remember exactly where the deer was standing when shot and last place you saw it if it ran and of course have good tracking Skills..Sound like a broken record HU? Maybe it is but I have been on lotsa leases and so called kills and it ain't pretty...cva34


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

QUOTE

"its where you hit them and HAVE PENETRATION"


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## TXNavalOperator (Sep 7, 2011)

CHARLIE said:


> I have to dis agree with some of the above. If the shot placement is perfect and the bullet is bad things dont work. Seen bad 223 bullets blow up on the rib cage and not penetrate. Just sayn from first hand experience. Heavy big bad bullet it really makes no difference the lead will penetrate whitetail. Little bad bullet (223) doesent work.


That being said, I would not reccomend purchasing bullets for Varmit hunting (rapid expansion) for deer hunting. A resaonable priced CoreLok or what ever agrees with your budget and rifle will work fine. I guess some need to make up the diffrence of poor marksmanship with more lead. Lol.


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## Bottomsup (Jul 12, 2006)

Here we go again. The .223 is a fine round if utilized properly. IDK why people want to shoot deer in the shoulder. Come back a little in the rib cage and you will have a dead deer every time. If it runs give it time to lie down and die like 30 minutes or so before you go look for it. Even if your shooting varmit bullets the deer will die if only in the rib cage. Now if your a better shot the neck will drop them in their tracks. I shot a doe in the neck at around 75 yards with my daughters .223 and **** near cut its head off. Everyone here needs to read P.O. Ackly's book concerning the .220 swift. "If one hundred head of deer were shot with a .220 swift and one hundred head with a 30-06 the .220 swift would be the clear winner in one shot kills." You cant rule out the hydrostatic shock of high velocity rounds. I have killed more deer with a 22-250 and the dreaded Nosler BT bullets than most will do in a lifetime. In fact its all I hunt with unless in West Texas where my shots may go 500 yards or more.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

TxNavalOperator

I think we are on the same page. A problem is most over the counter 223 stuff is varmit rounds and most folks just dont have a clue. Ya gotta be selective. Good shootin and huntin


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## wickedwader (Jun 30, 2010)

I use a 220 Swift, 55 gr soft point. I rarely take a shot over 150 yds so it's at the neck every time - doe or buck. They drop in their tracks and if I do miss, it's a clean one.


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## TXNavalOperator (Sep 7, 2011)

CHARLIE said:


> TxNavalOperator
> 
> I think we are on the same page. A problem is most over the counter 223 stuff is varmit rounds and most folks just dont have a clue. Ya gotta be selective. Good shootin and huntin


Yes Sir, we are. Proper bullet, properly placed shot. Key factors for any caliber.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

TxNavalOperator

Ablosoutely a must in small calibers like 22's


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## Brute (Apr 29, 2009)

My uncle has a video of my cousin shooting a pretty nice 8pt in the neck with .223 Corelock.... perfect shot. Waited over an hour to track it. Jumped it in the brush about 80yds away. Never recovered it.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Brute

Had a corelock blow up on the outside of a rib cage of a deer and didnt penetrate. Deer took off and I was lucky and as it ran away I hit it right behind the head and dropped it. I would have never known what happened regarding the rib shot.


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## Rine_Everett (Jun 3, 2004)

Partitions or Barnes for chest shots. To use a 223 on deer necks, you DON'T want penetration, you want a massive energy dump in order to break the neck. I use 55 grain ballistic tips for neck shots. If the bullet doesn't exit the neck then all the energy dumped in the neck will break or disrupt the CNS in some way. A 60 partition will penetrate any Texas deer at a reasonable angle and distance. BTW I load the bt and pt to shoot same poi at 100 yards so I can take either if I need to.


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## sea sick (Feb 9, 2006)

CHARLIE said:


> Brute
> 
> Had a corelock blow up on the outside of a rib cage of a deer and didnt penetrate. Deer took off and I was lucky and as it ran away I hit it right behind the head and dropped it. I would have never known what happened regarding the rib shot.


Was the deer 1k yards away? Wearing a BPV or flak jacket? were you shooting subsonic rounds and had a long shot? And you were shooting core lokt rounds,which have great control expansion and weight retention. Not like the varmit ballistic tips that shatter and explode upon impact.

Please tell me more,I just gotta know. Not calling you a liar,your a seasoned woodsman for sure. The last time I ever heard of something like this was from a guy returning some 7 mag shells back to the store. He said he shot a deer at 125 yards and it bounced off the deers shoulder and broke a branch in the tree next to him  wanted his money back:help:

Must be some magical deer in those woods:biggrin:


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## Capt. Marcus Canales (Aug 25, 2005)

personally, with those conditions, animal calm, ear shot for me.


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## Brute (Apr 29, 2009)

Idk. You can see the bullet hit on the video and every thing. Its lower towards the base but centered pretty good. Deer is 100-120yds. All I can think of is there was some kind of defect in the bullet? 

I've shot countless big hogs with Core-Lokts out of a .243. It still kind of blows my mind. I have switched to Barnes now thru my AR but not because of this.


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## Bottomsup (Jul 12, 2006)

Brute, I would love to see the video. Its hard to believe it was a perfect shot and the deer didnt die. I have watch countless deer killed with a .22 rimfire shot in the neck. Saying that maybe the bullet impacted something before it struck the deer in the neck. In some cases high velocity varmit bullets can come apart in the air. I have witnessed a .17 Remington bullet vaporizing at about 40 yards. This only happened if the barrel was a little dirty or there was a slight haze or fog in the air. I load my 22-250 hot with 50 grain Nosler BT's and have never had one blow up on the surface.


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## Bottomsup (Jul 12, 2006)

The last time I ever heard of something like this was from a guy returning some 7 mag shells back to the store. He said he shot a deer at 125 yards and it bounced off the deers shoulder and broke a branch in the tree next to him  wanted his money back:help:

Must be some magical deer in those woods:biggrin:[/QUOTE]

LMAO! Sounds like he shot the branch next to the deer and was to proud and dumb to come up with another story. That or the beer was making him see a deer in the woods. Can you imagine the rack that oak tree had on it? Hell I have killed a Toyota truck with my 7MM Mag.


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## Brute (Apr 29, 2009)

Bottomsup said:


> Brute, I would love to see the video. Its hard to believe it was a perfect shot and the deer didnt die. I have watch countless deer killed with a .22 rimfire shot in the neck. Saying that maybe the bullet impacted something before it struck the deer in the neck. In some cases high velocity varmit bullets can come apart in the air. I have witnessed a .17 Remington bullet vaporizing at about 40 yards. This only happened if the barrel was a little dirty or there was a slight haze or fog in the air. I load my 22-250 hot with 50 grain Nosler BT's and have never had one blow up on the surface.


I know man. Trust me we killed lots of stuff with .22s, .22MAGs, .17HMR in my wilder days. My dad hunted with a .222 for the longest time. I still only use a .243 or my 6.8.

Its across an oats patch. The video is on those old, small tapes. I don't know how to get it off. It was most likely a fluke but was clear as day. I was the one who jumped the deer after the shot that night.

We're getting off topic. Not sure what my post really had to do with any thing honestly. I would just make sure to pay for a quality Barnes type bullet especially when in the smaller calibers. Just a little added insurance. That story just sticks with me because I don't like to lose animals so I still think about what could have been done differently.


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## backlash71 (May 27, 2010)

Barnes 62 grain TSX to the shoulder out of the AR has done the trick for me on a bunch of does.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Sea Sick

Ha .. 

No sir the deer was maybe 50 yards away shot with a Remington over the counter bullet. Deer started running and I was waiting for it to stumble or drop. After maybe 75 yards I figured it wasnt going to happen and the deer was running straight away from me. I make another shot and (lucky too) hit him right behind the head and he goes down. The rib cage was a bloody pulp but no penetration into the chest. Remember we are speaking of 223 (22 cal) bullet 55 gr not a larger caliber. Been hunting with a 223 since the 60's and have tried every bullet imagineable for deer hunting. Finally the Barnes is the go to bullet that works every time and you dont have to worry about performance. I know some bullets work some of the time but that is not what I want. Expensive but never worry about performance..
Again not trying to get into any arguement just stating what I have found over many years of hunting and experimenting..

Another note the closer it is the better chances of the bullet blowing (much higher velocity). as it slows down it may penetrate and not blow up.


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## justletmein (Feb 11, 2006)

Heart/Lung all the way, even with a good Barnes bullet that little .223 size just a little bit off with head/neck shot and you've got a wounded animal running around. Put it through the boiler room and even with a much larger target area it's dead for sure before too long. The little bullet won't do too much damage to the meat either.


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## chapman53559 (Jun 19, 2009)

*I'm a fan*

I use 62gr. HP. Both of these guys received one to the pump station and were DRT. Notice the penetration on the boar's shoulder shield from 75 yds. Come to think of it I was using cheap Wolf ammo on both. The spike was about 60 yds. and was a thru hull shot.


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## kweber (Sep 20, 2005)

I like to shoot 'em straight up the tail pipe.
I been shafted so much thru-out my life that ever' onct ina while I just want to be the shafter.
:rotfl:


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## THE JAMMER (Aug 1, 2005)

Good gosh. It must be getting somewhat close to hunting season. Same subject same answers episode 2012.

Here we go again. 2" target or 12" target. Hmmm?? I think I'll take that big one. I'll stroke my ego on the range, not on a live animal.


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## justletmein (Feb 11, 2006)

kweber said:


> I like to shoot 'em straight up the tail pipe.
> I been shafted so much thru-out my life that ever' onct ina while I just want to be the shafter.
> :rotfl:


Wait, you're not confusing deer with sheep again are you Kurt? :slimer:


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## Rubberback (Sep 9, 2008)

I have a Winchester Model 70 carbine its a 223 & is a real short gun so your not always hitting the barrel on something when your fix in to stick it out of whatever your hunting in. I've killed my last 6 or 7 deer with it. All have been neck shots except last season I shot the buck in the shoulder. I've never had to chase a deer. Reasons I like it are other hunters can hardly here it, it doesn't kick, easy to carry around, very accurate & I have a lot of confidence in the gun, plus if you see a cat or other varmint you wanna stuff it doesn't ruin your mount. There deadly accurate & fast.


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## shhhh...ducks (Feb 22, 2010)

THE JAMMER said:


> Good gosh. It must be getting somewhat close to hunting season. Same subject same answers episode 2012.
> 
> Here we go again. 2" target or 12" target. Hmmm?? I think I'll take that big one. I'll stroke my ego on the range, not on a live animal.


I was thinking the same exact thing!!!!!


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## wet dreams (May 21, 2004)

Hey Charlie, I shot a grown doe with a scoped 44mag at 17 steps with a 210gr hollow point, hit her square in tha shoulder.....never seen her again, very little blood,> point is wrong bullet, wrong placement....just 1 is all it takes to lose a animal. Chapman you keep shooting them big boars (with nutz) behind the shoulder with that, your gonna p iss one off before long....WW


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## Capt. Marcus Canales (Aug 25, 2005)

THE JAMMER said:


> Good gosh. It must be getting somewhat close to hunting season. Same subject same answers episode 2012.
> 
> Here we go again. 2" target or 12" target. Hmmm?? I think I'll take that big one. I'll stroke my ego on the range, not on a live animal.


For me, its not about stroking any ego, its just a personal decision at that moment in time if all conditions are right, Jam.

Sent from my mobile T&A viewer


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Big calibers bullet doesent make too much difference. Smaller calibers (22) bullet better be right. I agree with the post above or I mite say well it all depends on a lot of things. Make a decision at the time.. good huntin folks


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## Bottomsup (Jul 12, 2006)

wet dreams said:


> Hey Charlie, I shot a grown doe with a scoped 44mag at 17 steps with a 210gr hollow point, hit her square in tha shoulder.....never seen her again, very little blood,> point is wrong bullet, wrong placement....just 1 is all it takes to lose a animal. Chapman you keep shooting them big boars (with nutz) behind the shoulder with that, your gonna p iss one off before long....WW


That is why I preach for people to stay out of the shoulder. Unless you have a large caliber high powered rifle stay out of the shoulder. You have muscle, bone, cartilage to penetrate there and most vitals are behind the shoulder anyway. Aim dead center for the rib cage and you will have a dead dear every time with whatever gun your shooting.


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