# Question about hunting land.....



## jasonaustin (Feb 6, 2009)

I am heading up to the Comstock area Monday to scope out a lease to possibly hunt on the next several years. The property is actually a little north west in Pandale on the Pechos River. Has anyone hunted this area or have any info on the deer in the area? I am just trying to get as much info I can before making the 7-8 hour drive to check it out. Thanks


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## jbfire (Jan 8, 2007)

are you hunting off of road 1024...I have hunted halfway between comstock and pandale. I know the are well, great hunting just a long drive.


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## RogerB (Oct 11, 2005)

what's the name of the Ranch? i've hunted out that way several times. Some areas are great - others? not so much.


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## drake1 (Mar 7, 2007)

I hunt on ranch road 1024 10 miles from 90. I have been there 7 years now and love it out there. We hunt 2000 acres between 3 hunters. Largest deer was 142 inches. Imgot one 132 2 years ago. Started protein last year and let 8-10 young deer in the mid to high 120s and low 130s walk this season. Some will be ready to take next year. I live onnthe north side of lake Houston which is 428 miles tom the camp. I normally stop 3 times and make it in 7 hours. I plan my trips where I stay at least 4 nights when I go. Lots of dove, quail, turkey and of course deer. Some javelina and one bear also. High hills to sit on and see deer 700 yards away. Everything there will either bite you, sting you or poke you. I wouldn't hunt anywhere else. We pay $4500 per gun which includes camp with power and water, 8 500 lb corn feeders going year round, 5 protein feeders Feb thru September, road corn and 5X8 box blinds at corn feeders. Nice place to take my 5 and 2 year old boys with me. Polaris Ranger is the best thing I have used to drive that terrain. Aoudads and cats are in the area you are going to look at. Hope it works out for you.


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## Salty Dog (Jan 29, 2005)

I hunted near Pandale for a number of years. We had about 10k acres. I loved hunting out there because of the rugged country. Lots of deer but not really many big deer. I think a 130 class buck was pretty good on our lease. Lots of blue quail, at times lots of doves and we always had lots of turkeys. Some of the best turkey hunting I ever had. 

The drive wasn't too big of an issue when I could hunt 3-4 days per week. When I got to where I could only go for 2 day weekends the drive became a deal breaker.


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## budnik18 (Aug 24, 2006)

What is the name of the ranch. I have land in Pandale and I lease land that is just NorthWest of Pandale. I know the families that own land in that area there is only three names it could be if it is just Northwest of Pandale.


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## drake1 (Mar 7, 2007)

I hunt on the Walker Ranch.


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## jasonaustin (Feb 6, 2009)

I believe the it is Brewer Ranch. It is on highway 1024. So far everything I have heard from here is pretty good news. 130 class deer is a lot better than anything I have seen from any of my other leases in east texas. There is a 2800 acre track that they are filling spots for off of the Brewer Ranch that I have a spot on. Hope this was enough info for ya.


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## Mikeyhunts (Jun 4, 2007)

If you end up leasing a place out there, I have a 30' tower blind and some suppplies on a lease right on 90 AT the Pecos River intersection.
I have pictures of the blind, and a travel trailer out there if interested.
Its just been sitting out there for a few years.


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## JohnHumbert (May 21, 2004)

Last year I leased pasture #1 on the Brewer Ranch off FM1024 between Juno and Comstock. To say it was a disaster would be an understatement. The man I leased from was Tom P.

To be fair, I understand last year was one of the worse droughts in 50 years - but even so, listen to my experience there.

First, I was shown a bunch of pictures of big deer and was told you'd see "hundreds of deer driving in" - that would later become a standing joke by other in camp. I looked at the area and I thought it looked pretty good, and signed up.

At three months of running cams - 10 of them - I hardly saw any deer at all. I had the same ratty doe and fawn - and a slick 6. The "slick 6" would end up being the largest deer seen - but more about that later. I mentioned about the lack of deer and was told "you need to put water out and you'll see them come out the woodwork", which became, "wait until we have rain and you'll see come out of the woodwork", which became "wait until the cooler weather and they'll come out of the woodwork", which became "wait until the rut and they'll come out the woodwork", which became, "It really doesn't start getting good until XMAS, then they come out o the woodwork".

They also claimed to see "dozens of deer" under their feeder, and "saw hundreds of deer driving in". Even in the sections across the road, where the Deaton-Cole fire burned 300,000 acres to ashes and black sticks - I mean NOTHING was left.

I began to get very suspicious, but was elated to see an exotic (small fallow) on cam in June. The 3 whitetails I'd seen on cam were becoming more and more rare to see. Now only caught on cam maybe 1 or 2 nights in 2-3 week period. By July, everthing on cam disappeared, except a few hogs.

Late July the hogs showed up in force - like packs of 25-75 hogs. And they would stay all night. My cam pics showed hogs from left to right in the frame, and from just in front of the camera to as far as the eye could see. Not common to have 100-150 hogs come through.

I guess I was lucky, because sharing pics and info back at camp - most guys were jealous that I was seeing anything - and their mouths were watering at the sight of the slick 6....

By Sept, when the heat broke - I was getting worried. At the common camp for all the pastures, I got contact information for 22 people that I talked to and very few of them had even seen any deer - at that time, the total estimated "sit days" for the folks I talked to was close to 90 days with no deer seen.

I talked with lease manager/agent and they both continued to tell me about how good the deer are, to be patient, and they were seeing "hundreds on the drive in". I begain to suspect the truth now, and when I got an opportunity to do a ride along on a helicopter survery in the area, I jumped on it. I made a deal with them to fly my pasture for just the cost of fuel.

We surveyed several ranches that day before fly my pasture. I got a feel for normal and healthy deer densities. When we flew the grid over over pasture, only about a dozen deer were seen on 1400+ acres (and that is being generous, because I think we count the same deer twice a couple of times). No mature deer seen - but plenty of hogs. Neighboring pastures showed about the same, pretty slim pickings over the 25,000-30,000 acres of the area.

I mentioned this on the THF and found the guy who managed the lease before Tom, while Tom just a another member. He began to relate to me his experience, which was very good until Anthrax hit the Brewer ranch in July 09. Within a week, all the deer that he and pics of (which were the same pics that Tom had shown me) we gone and the ranch was pretty much wiped out! That whole group went the entire season without seeing a single deer - or any animal for that matter.

I did some checking and confirmed the Anthrax outbreak. When I questioned Tom about it, he pleaded total ignorance - even though he was part of the group the previous year. I questioned the ranch manager about it, and he was very relunctant and vague about it, but when pressed finally admitted to a "minor" kill due to anthrax. He did confirm that Tom knew all about it.

I compared information with the contact from THF and he was able to show me documented evidence, including emails and other correspondence that proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that there was a major outbreak and Tom knew about it. At this point, I strongly considered suing Tom - but since he was not returning calls/emails, and was never on the property while other were there (he knew there were a dozen people waiting to kick his arse), I decided just to finish the season and get the heck outta dodge with lesson learned. Season was starting just the next week.

During season, I only saw 2 live animals - the slick 6 and a spike on opening day. Despite over 20 days hunting, those were the only animals seen. Still had friends of Tom saying they "saw hundreds of deer on the drive in". 

Another member in camp (on a different pasture) and I decided to check this out - maybe the deer were just being elusive (yeah right). We went out spotlighting from FM1024 for 25 miles west/north, and 35 miles east/south from 9pm to almost 4am. We saw 2 does total. We did the same three other nights, with similar results - although one night we did actually see a small buck.

On one of those night, we were stopped by the GW and checked. Had a nice chat with him - and he confirmed the anthrax, the major kill, and confirmed that no one in the whole area were seeing much of anything - but as soon as you got out of the kill zone to the north towards Ozona, or about 40 miles south, or closer to the river - there were still good number of deer - even in the dought.

He told us about the neighboring ranch, which had a good population of aoudads - lost virtually every animal on the ranch, including a pet llama. That rancher, who had a commericial hunting operation, closed up shop. I later phoned him and he confirmed everything I heard (3rd confirmation source), and said his concience would not let him lease his land or run hunts until things recovered.

He also went to tell me that the area and those ranches regularly get hit with anthrax every few years. He said the animals will repopulate, but takes about 3-5 years to see numbers, and about 5-6 to see quality animals. Unless you transfer deer. He said the exotics are first to return since they roam more.

Now, I can back up in court everything I have said. I have no fear of any legal reprocussion from my statements or claims since I can prove it. Have not pursued legal action (just wanted to move on and forget it) thus far - but if Tom or any one of his friends so much as utters a single word refuting what I am saying or against me - I can promise I will take them down legally and get every penny I can.

And if you think I am BS'ing, you only need to go over the Texas Hunting Forum and search for posts about Juno, Anthrax, Brewer ranch, etc. and you will find tons of others who have had similar experiences - including some poor soul that leased on the Brewer ranch just his fall.

There even more that I have not gone into due to space/time constraints, but contact me and I can give more details.

I would avoid the Brewer ranch like a plague - which it apparently is.


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## 10ERBETTER (Feb 24, 2008)

There you go.


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## fishingwithhardheadkings (Oct 10, 2012)

Thanks John, That is interesting to know, but where is the anthrax coming from?


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## JohnHumbert (May 21, 2004)

*Anthrax*

Anthrax is a bacteria that is found in the ground. Once it gets in there, it never leaves. The original source is probably from sheep ranching, but it does occur naturally.

The bacteria spores stay dormant in the ground for long periods. Certain events cause the spores to 'activate'. Typically this can occur after rain during hot periods - like a summer rain. It is generally not active in the cooler months.

Animals (including people) can get it from contact with infected animals or by ingesting dirt containing active spores. Generally what happens is animals feed over inflected patches after a rain in the summer time. Late June through August are prime times in the "anthrax triangle" area of Texas. In Texas, ranches in the anthrax triangle that had sheep production should be especially cautious.

Again, once anthrax spores are in the ground, they cannot be eliminated. They will always be there and could remain dormant for 30 years or more before activating.

Within hours of ingesting active spores, animals begin showing signs being sick. They might stagger like intoxicated, become larthargic, or exhibit other abnormal behaviour. Within a day or two the animal dies. Within a week large areas can be wiped out of mammals.

Humans can contract the bacteria very easily. By air in the very close proximity of animals, or by contact with infected animals or soil. It can be fatal, but rarely is in humans because treatment is usually given. While the spores do not travel by air currents, if you are handling infected animals you may "stir up" enough spores to accidently ingest them through nose or mouth without realizing it.

If you are in an anthrax area, you should avoid being out in the field after rains in the summertime. Stay clear of any animal that is acting strange or appears to be sick or infected.

Any dead animal found in anthrax areas should not be handled and reported to the local health service. If you MUST handled a dead animal, minimum protection should include gloves and face mask. Wash clothes with disinfectant before leaving the area. Infected animals/clothing are usually burned.

By hunting season, it is usually cold enough to eliminate risk of outbreaks and infection.

Outbreaks can be minimized by feeding corn treated with anti-bacterial chemicals that reduces the effects. However, once infected, there is usually close to 100% fatality rate in animals. It is not selective among mammals, and will kill all animals in the area - deer, exotics, cows, sheep, racoons, pigs, fox, rodents, etc. I don't know there are any mammals that are immune, but there may be. Certain animals, because of their habits, may escape outbreaks. However, animals that range have been known to carry the bacteria/spores across long distances to infect other areas - but since it kills so quick, outbreaks tend to be localized.

Outbreaks on ranches may go unnoticed for awhile, because strangely enough, dead animals are not readily encountered after a mass kill - especially wild animals. So don't expect to see a field of dead deer - ONE deer found and confirmed could be the only indicator of a mass outbreak you might see.

If the ranch you are on has anthrax, even without an outbreak, precautions should be taken not to spread the spores to other ranches. Dirt containing spores may stick to your boots, and you could drive hundreds of miles and deposit the spores onto a ranch that previously had not been affected.

For this reason, if you lease or hunt on a ranch in the anthrax triangle, you should be especially careful if visiting another ranch. They make spray disinfectants for your boots and clothing. (Same stuff Customs/Immigration used on you and your footwear when travelling from another country and answer "Yes" to the question if you have visited any farm or ranch in the foreign country).


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## JohnHumbert (May 21, 2004)

*Comments*

As you can tell, Anthrax is nothing to fool around with. While I don't want to sound like "sky is falling", folks should be aware and informed of the dangers.

Lots of Texas ranches have Anthrax laying dormant, and it can be managed and dealt with - and still enjoy use of the land for ranching, farming, and recreation.

However, it is such a taboo subject in that area that I have found that ranches, lease managers, and land owners will not discuss it with outsiders. Their responses range from vague to outright lies, and some can be very slippery in the way they respond to questions.

If you are buying land in the area, they are required by law to make full disclosure of outbreaks on their property. And most real estate agents can provide lists of infected ranches.

However, there is no such law requiring disclosure to lessors of the land for hunting - and typically they will not inform you upfront of past outbreaks, and will avoid or side-step the question if asked directly. Comments like "I don't know of _personally_ of any _confirmed_ cases", or "I heard _something_ about that but I don't know any details" are common ways to avoid telling the truth. It's just a question of the personal ethics of the person you are dealing with.

Had I know going in that anthrax hit the ranch, I might have still leased - or I might not have. It certainly would have prompted me to do more of a due-diligence. What REALLY ticks me off in my case, was that the lease ramrod SUGGESTED repeatedly that I go to the ranch during or just after a rain because I might see more animals.


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## jasonaustin (Feb 6, 2009)

Man.... Very good info!! Thank you very much. I couldnt ask for better info even if it isnt the info I was hoping for!!! Thanks for the honesty.


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## Brad Beaulieu (May 10, 2006)

Hunted that area for 8 years. Some nice deer then granted we had the drought going. Started an intensive managment program and supplamental feed program and were just starting to see it pay off when we left the ranch. Love the country though so maybe when I'm rich and famous I'll go back that way. I think our biggest deer were in the mid to upper 140's.


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## Tx_Biologist (Sep 7, 2012)

We've hit the low of lows for the area. I am convinced that the area is recovering.....my spotlight data for the area is low from Pandale crossing and the Juno cutoff road. Two repeater lines I monitor. 

For instance to the south, starting at the 10-15 mile road north of Comstock on FM1024 is the highest deer density for Val Verde Co. 

The (Pandale -Juno) area (not just the ranch but the whole area) the JH is talking about experienced a severe die-off in 2009-10 and again 2010-2011. I believe due to high deer numbers, densities greater that 1 deer to 12 acres. It is imperative that numbers be kept with in the habitat's ability to provide food. This area is hunted, supplementally fed and was kept at an inflated density of 1:7-9 acres until the population bottomed out due to hunters misguided attempt to keep what they felt was appropriate for the area. That close contact allowed a normal disease to influence the entire deer herd in the area. Realistically a density of a deer to 24-36 acres is the best the habitat can support and hunters were not reducing the numbers. This cyclic event will return at a later date, if deer number are low then the die-off maybe will not be felt. I wish you luck in finding a lease and if you have questions call me (TPWD # 830-703-6808) for deer data in the Edwards and Val Verde area.


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## JohnHumbert (May 21, 2004)

Yes, I agree completely. Understand my comments are not a knock on the area on general. That part of Texas can produce some awesome bucks and has some good genetics - or did. 

I have no doubt the area will rebound in time. And I would consider returning to the area once it recovers or is nearing recovery. 

It is some awesomely rugged and beautiful country. 

My issue and warning is that anyone considering leasing there now should know the score. And I don't like seeing folks get misled by old pictures and unscrupulous lease managers. 

If some of these land owners would come clean and rethink their strategies and pricing, it could be an attractive option for management minded group to spend the time and effort to rebuild the herd. Lets say a graduated 5-7 year lease and control over all the pastures. 

As it is now, just being out for the quick immediate buck by a uncoordinated group of ramrod managers - folks are shooting what little they see, pigs are out of control, habitat is destroyed, and info on the die offs are kept secret. 

This prevents anyone from getting a long term rebuilding and management plan in place - and recovery is going to be delayed indefinitely. 

The area has great potential, but not under the current ranch management. The current management clearly is not interested in rebuilding but wants to dupe a new group of hunters every year with pics of days gone by and comments about hundreds of deer. 

For example, if the Brewer ranch gave me a 7 year lease and policy control over all the pastures, at the end of that time I could turn over back to them an operation and herd that would be worth 2-3x of what they are charging now and 50x what it's worth today.


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## jasonaustin (Feb 6, 2009)

All really good info. So I have heard about the deer now but what about the birds? I have never killed a turkey and I love dove and quail hunting. I heard the whole area is great for all of those. Is that true? lol


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## jtburf (May 26, 2004)

I hunted east of there about 20 miles and we had mucho turkey and quail, granted that was 15-18 years ago.

Dove are different, you can have great dove one year and not the next.

John


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## Tom_in_SA (Feb 19, 2008)

JohnHumbert said:


> Last year I leased pasture #1 on the Brewer Ranch off FM1024 between Juno and Comstock. To say it was a disaster would be an understatement. The man I leased from was Tom P.
> 
> To be fair, I understand last year was one of the worse droughts in 50 years - but even so, listen to my experience there.
> 
> ...


12 miles south of Pandale, on the west side of FM1024, is where we were last year, I'm TomP. North of Pandale there was not as much fire as where we were, we had several pastures burnt around our pasture. I had a few deer, many turkey and lots and lots of hogs on my camera the year John and I got off the lease he was on one year. The hogs appeared and the deer left, that year. We had hoped they would stay on our pasture, despite the drought and the fires, as it had not been burned by fire right before season started like thousands of acres around there. We didn't shoot many, we didn't find them dead, so I don't know where they went. Different people have different theories for where they went. I don't know anyone and have not heard of anyone, who found a dead deer there from anthrax. The anthrax triangle in Texas is to the east of that area if you want to research that. One night, a record night for me, driving about a 50 mile stretch of FM1024 from the lease to Comstock, my girlfriend and I saw 140 deer on the sides of FM1024. I've driven that road a lot over the years, so if someone saw hundreds, I'd say its an exageration.


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## Tom_in_SA (Feb 19, 2008)

Based on Tx Biologists post, the deer may have moved south to get away from the fire damage, he said that's the highest deer density in the county based on some recent surveys.

Go see the area north of Pandale look at the sign, decide for yourself, its a neat area to hunt, is what I would do. Doing something sight unseen, especially picking a deer lease is a hard way to do it.


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## RogerB (Oct 11, 2005)

and I'm one of the hunters that had a spot in the pasture that Tom P managed. Had it for two years. The first year my game camera recorded pictures of several nice bucks and plenty of doe. I took out a long horn spike (weighed in at 105lbs after skinning and gutting) the first year and passed on a couple of doe and a 7 point. the nearest hunter to my spot took an 8point opening day and a doe. 
The second year was not as productive, due in part to the drought and our inability to keep water in the pasture (hogs would destroy the water tanks to get to the water). My game camera showed promising deer until the heat of summer took affect and the wildfires burned the pastures across the road. After that all I saw was hogs. My son took out one hog after I gave my spot to him and moved to a lease in Junction. the camera showed no deer from November on but I suspect the Texas Wildlife Biologist comments above may have something to do with that. I never saw a dead deer from the affects of anthrax nor did I hear of any found. You can't make an anthrax claim without proof. Yes, Val Verde, Real and Edwards all had instances of anthrax that year but finding where it was in effect is something best left to those who know. I too have spoken with Game Wardens in the area and anyone who wants to can do the same. They will tell that driving 1024 from Comstock to the Juno cutoff (about 4-5 miles from the Brewer Chapman ranch is a pretty hairy drive after dark. I've seen double digit deer on the sides of the highway and counted 104 once. And my comments are what they are - John Humbert - if you want to discuss further do so - in private message - I'll not engage anyone, anymore is silly "he said - she said" ******* contests on this forum. 
As for Tom P. I've known Tom for abut 16 years now and I can attest to his ethics, and his personal honor. He's guided my grandsons, myself and even my son on numerous hunts in varying locations across Texas. I don't need to defend him further - he can do that for himself. Yeah - the 2011 season was a huge disappointment for a lot of hunters on Brewer Chapman. I do know deer were harvested there this past year. They weren't the "trophy" deer you might be looking for but you get what you pay for and that lease costs less than many in the area. 
'nuff said - want to dispute me? do so in private message -


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