# Some local captains talking their minds...



## fishing diablo (Jan 28, 2011)

https://omny.fm/shows/the-outd...-b99b-a8bc00cca55d&share=1

Interesting link to the 610 Outdoor show.... this is the podcast of Capt's Mickey Eastman, James Plaag and Mike Williams talking about the fishery In Galveston .... Very interesting points of view and listening to some of the godfather's of fishing and their thoughts on where the fishing is at! And where it maybe headed... .. if you enjoy it you can go to 610 sports Houston, Podcasts and pick this last Sunday's recording of the Outdoor Show.....on link pick hour 1 and play.... About 45 minutes each. Interesting....

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## fishing diablo (Jan 28, 2011)

fishing diablo said:


> https://omny.fm/shows/the-outd...-b99b-a8bc00cca55d&share=1
> 
> Interesting link to the 610 Outdoor show.... this is the podcast of Capt's Mickey Eastman, James Plaag and Mike Williams talking about the fishery In Galveston .... Very interesting points of view and listening to some of the godfather's of fishing and their thoughts on where the fishing is at! And where it maybe headed... .. if you enjoy it you can go to 610 sports Houston, Podcasts and pick this last Sunday's recording of the Outdoor Show.....on link pick hour 1 and play.... About 45 minutes each. Interesting....
> 
> ...


https://omny.fm/shows/the-outdoors-...=f3358b92-522e-46fc-b99b-a8bc00cca55d&share=1

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## fishing diablo (Jan 28, 2011)

fishing diablo said:


> https://omny.fm/shows/the-outdoors-...=f3358b92-522e-46fc-b99b-a8bc00cca55d&share=1
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Outdoor show Hour 1 , 2 and 3....

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## TxDuSlayer (Jun 24, 2006)

Yep, they were talking about on last Sunday show


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## tec (Jul 20, 2007)

In a nutshell what did they say?


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## BretE (Jan 24, 2008)

Listening to it now. Just my opinion, every serious fisherman should listen. You can argue and disagree all you want but these guys have been doing it longer than most. Granted they see it from a guides perspective but they have make some very valid points.....


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## Zeitgeist (Nov 10, 2011)

tec said:


> In a nutshell what did they say?


Upper coast should have a 5 trout limit.

Dredging has had huge environmental impact and affect on the trout fishery.

To many boats, too many guides.

All someone has to do is follow a good guide during a tournament and mark their own GPS.

Facebook is a cancer for the preservation of productive fishing spots :wink:

I have a great respect for all these guys!

This old video from the movie "Back to School" with Sam Kinison makes me think of Mike Williams.


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## saltwatersensations (Aug 30, 2004)

Zeitgeist said:


> Upper coast should have a 5 trout limit.
> 
> Dredging has had huge environmental impact and affect on the trout fishery.
> 
> ...


Dredging won't ever stop

Better fish at night. I guarantee some of them found good spots from others.

Social media is going nowhere

5 fish limit may help some.


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## Muddskipper (Dec 29, 2004)

I threw up a little in my mouth to hear 5-fish limit again....


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## Muddskipper (Dec 29, 2004)

I threw up a little in my mouth to hear 5-fish limit again....


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## Stuart (May 21, 2004)

Dredging will never stop, but where they place the spoils can be controlled better. Like when they were dredging the ICW in West Galveston Bay and they spit the spoils out on all that nice grass that had been making a comeback.


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## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

Mike Williams the "Tampon Express" is a douchebag. I wouldn't trust anything he says. I have no problem with the other guides and respect their opinions.


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## SaltwaterSlick (Jun 11, 2012)

Yea, I ain't a James Plaag fan either... Like someone posted they're all looking at it from a "guide's" perspective... Well I can tell you from experience that HIS perspective is those are HIS fish and HE will fish where HE wants... Guides aren't the only ones who can find fish. They are just the only ones that think when they do find them, that they own 'em and the spots the fish are in...ABSOLUTELY ZERO respect for other fishermen that got there first... I used to fish almost daily with my brother... we caught fish, and we stayed on fish pretty regular... Had more than one run in with Plaag running in on us when he'd get a late start, especially upper Trinity... Far as I'm concerned he's a jerk and VERY unethical... maybe he's wised up over the years, but he sure had a lot to learn when he was younger.

And as far as that 5 fish limit, that's a crock too. Just go fish on the other side of the Sabine, better yet the other side of the Mississippi... 25 fish limit and plenty of fish there and there's plenty of fishermen too.


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## bluefin (Aug 16, 2005)

I wish they would put a 5 fish limit. 
Then just once in my life I might be able to say 'I limited out'.


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## Csafisher (Nov 16, 2010)

Weâ€™ve had a 5 limit in the LLM for quite awhile. I have no problem with it. Unless you only fish a couple times a year there is no need to keep 10. IMHO


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## beauxedup (Mar 20, 2017)

they make some solid points but some of it just seems too much. You can't stop more and more boats fishing the bay systems. They know what they are talking about becuase they have done it for so long, but seems like all they do is complain about other people fishing and how times aren't like they used to be. Obviously things aren't gonna be how they used to be, times change, you can't stop that.


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## Lone-Star (Dec 19, 2009)

Limited entry program for guide licenses will happen sooner or later...it's non-sensical to allow unlimited guides on a finite resource.


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## boom! (Jul 10, 2004)

I agree with a lot of what they talk about, but I also have seen their huge stringers of 30" trout from back in the day taken for many, many years.


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## SeaOx 230C (Aug 12, 2005)

What does the latest TPWD surveys suggest? Do they show a decline in the health of the trout population?

Just because some guides say that the trout they ain't what they used to be is not a cause for action. There was a show here while back with a TPWD rep and if I am not mistaken(very well could of misunderstood) he said that overall the Galveston Bay Complex trout where just fine and they saw no need for changes at this time. 

He did say that there was a slight decline in certain year classes of fish but that the recruitment age fish where better than ever.

The decline in those year classes is likely what is impacting the three guides. How much of that particular decline was due to multi year drought, then multi year record freshwater inflows? Fish stacking up and being slaughtered in the Upper Bay during the drought years, then being slaughtered again in the lower reaches during the flooding.


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## 4x4tx (Nov 13, 2005)

Csafisher said:


> Weâ€™ve had a 5 limit in the LLM for quite awhile. I have no problem with it. Unless you only fish a couple times a year there is no need to keep 10. IMHO


Agreed


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## Bocephus (May 30, 2008)

All the Guides with 3, or 4 people on their boats limiting out every day are hurting the fishery far, far more than the recreational Anglers.

Those Guides can **** up a rope...they're nothing but Hypocrites.


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

SeaOx 230C said:


> What does the latest TPWD surveys suggest? Do they show a decline in the health of the trout population?
> 
> Just because some guides say that the trout they ain't what they used to be is not a cause for action. There was a show here while back with a TPWD rep and if I am not mistaken(very well could of misunderstood) he said that overall the Galveston Bay Complex trout where just fine and they saw no need for changes at this time.
> 
> ...


I agree 100%. TPWD has the best data on the gulf coast going back over 30 years. Let the biologists do their job and leave out the politics.

Guides, tournament fishermen, catch and release vs people who like to eat their fish. Everybody has an opinion and a bias. While I like the good captain and his morning show what he want's is most likely best from his vantage point.


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## SeaOx 230C (Aug 12, 2005)

Csafisher said:


> Weâ€™ve had a 5 limit in the LLM for quite awhile. I have no problem with it. *Unless you only fish a couple times a year there is no need to keep 10.* IMHO


Your comment is why guides and anglers should not set the limits. Please take no offense because none is intended it's simply a difference of opinion. If you have no use for ten fish that's up to you however that has no bearing on if I can use and will use ten fish or twenty or only two.

If the limit needs to be reduced fine I have no issue. The thing is the only people I hear this from is guides and those that are or lean towards trophy fishing as the main thing.

Let's let the biologists do their thing and make those decisions. Are there any biologists saying there's a problem?


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## jetskijack2 (Aug 20, 2016)

Seeing how some of these saltwater fishing YouTube channels have 100,200,300K subscribers makes me a little concerned about the resource. What once took someone years to learn can now be learned in watching YouTube videos and instructional videos. I donâ€™t see how a 5 fish limit could actually hurt anything? I would be concerned eating anything more than a couple of fish out of the Galveston bay each month anyways due to the PCBâ€™s. 


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## buckweet (Aug 8, 2011)

One constant in this world is change. 
Had to stop listening cuz got tired of hearing the crying about how things used to be. 

Buffalo used to roam wild, canvasbacks everywhere, tarpon and jewfish all around galveston. Common denominator is mans increased pressure on finite resource. 

Acres of 8+ lb trout , blah blah blah glory days. They have made a living exploiting the resource. Who couldnâ€™t end up with heavy stringer when pigs are everywhere. Funny how now all they are on are â€œpencilsâ€,..... 

Sure Wish pappy was still on the radio!


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## WoundedMinnow (Oct 11, 2011)

Bocephus said:


> All the Guides with 3, or 4 people on their boats limiting out every day are hurting the fishery far, far more than the recreational Anglers.
> 
> Those Guides can **** up a rope...they're nothing but Hypocrites.


This is where I'm at. Plus majority if not all are working with a group of guides to find the fish and then stay on them. They network just like any other business does and their business is catching fish. You don't stay a guide for long if you can't catch'm.

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## blackjack runner (Feb 24, 2015)

Lets also discuss the hatchling and juvenile kill due to shrimp boats and how their nets drag and destroy sea grass and habitats.


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## bigdav160 (Aug 25, 2004)

No dog in this fight. 
I am a 58 year old that has only fished for the last 18 years. Not a lifetime like most of you. I almost always fish artificials. 

I don't think I have ever caught a 10 fish limit but I haven't caught a keeper trout in 5 years.


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## Captmphillips (Jul 6, 2010)

I may be opening a can of worms here but dragging the bay system with nets is the biggest threat on the fishery.


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## fishing diablo (Jan 28, 2011)

For the record I'm ok with a 5 fish limit for trout..IMO... We've had a 3 fish limit for reds and honestly now I can target a red a whole lot easier than trout or flounder... Was it the restrictions? Or ?... I'm old enough to remember the commercial over harvesting of reds... And though it has taken years they have returned... IMHO... 

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## customflat (Nov 11, 2005)

Bocephus said:


> All the Guides with 3, or 4 people on their boats limiting out every day are hurting the fishery far, far more than the recreational Anglers.
> 
> Those Guides can **** up a rope...they're nothing but Hypocrites.


Anyone with a boat can get a captains lisence, four dozen croaker, and customers with no fishing skill and load the boat. This is doing more harm to the big trout than anything else, in my opinion. When we get a big fresh water influx into Trinity, the fish get stacked up on a few reefs in East Bay. You will see 50+ boats on one reef, with the big trout stock getting decimated by the croaker soakers. Croaker should be classified as a game fish, and live bait fishermen should use SHRIMP. I know this will ruffle some feathers but so be it. Rant over.


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## Zeitgeist (Nov 10, 2011)

Thread going like a Lead Zeppilen?


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## capt. david (Dec 29, 2004)

blackjack runner said:


> Lets also discuss the hatchling and juvenile kill due to shrimp boats and how their nets drag and destroy sea grass and habitats.


There less shrimpers now. Decline of working boats have been going on for years. This is not the reason.


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## jeffm66 (Sep 14, 2010)

5 trout would be ok with me. Doesnâ€™t seem to have hurt the rest of Texas.


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## 2Ws (Jun 28, 2016)

fishing diablo said:


> . We've had a 3 fish limit for reds and honestly now I can target a red a whole lot easier than trout or flounder... Was it the restrictions? Or ?... I'm old enough to remember the commercial over harvesting of reds... And though it has taken years they have returned... IMHO...
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


 now its time to go to 5 reds with a 16-18" minimum slot.


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## dugue4 (May 29, 2012)

buckweet said:


> One constant in this world is change.
> Had to stop listening cuz got tired of hearing the crying about how things used to be.
> 
> Buffalo used to roam wild, canvasbacks everywhere, tarpon and jewfish all around galveston. Common denominator is mans increased pressure on finite resource.
> ...


This is why i stopped listening to the outdoor show too. Its like this every show.


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## Timemachine (Nov 25, 2008)

Limit the number of Guides, limit the Guide boat to 5 fish per day per person....

BOOM!!!...Big chuck of the problems solved. 

You're Welcome!


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

I cannot get TPWD's catch rate per bay to work. But the last time I checked the trout populations on the upper coast were will within their 35 year norms.

So I am going to chalk this tread up to a bunch of fishing guides chewing the fat and reminiscing about the "good old days" and the "way things used to be".

The data from TPWD does not indicate their being any "problems" with the trout fishery at all. Given their track record I can assure you that if the data indicates stress on the fishery TPWD will act accordingly. Until then I think it's just more "whining"...


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## bcoastal (Aug 8, 2012)

No party needs 40 trout. Take pictures and release. These death circle pics at the end of the day are typically for bragging. Keep a couple fish for diner and set an example for others. 

BTW frozen trout and redfish changes the taste to nasty and everyone knows that it goes from the freezer to the trash.


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## ccraver (Jun 20, 2008)

customflat said:


> Anyone with a boat can get a captains lisence, four dozen croaker, and customers with no fishing skill and load the boat. This is doing more harm to the big trout than anything else, in my opinion. When we get a big fresh water influx into Trinity, the fish get stacked up on a few reefs in East Bay. You will see 50+ boats on one reef, with the big trout stock getting decimated by the croaker soakers. Croaker should be classified as a game fish, and live bait fishermen should use SHRIMP. I know this will ruffle some feathers but so be it. Rant over.


This exactly!


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## BretE (Jan 24, 2008)

bcoastal said:


> No party needs 40 trout. Take pictures and release. These death circle pics at the end of the day are typically for bragging. Keep a couple fish for diner and set an example for others.
> 
> BTW frozen trout and redfish changes the taste to nasty and everyone knows that it goes from the freezer to the trash.


If your fish go from the freezer to the trash, youâ€™re doing it wrong....way wrong....

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## c hook (Jul 6, 2016)

*my 2 cents*

#1) eliminate the yennies/greenies throwing croaker. using croaker is like saying hey look at me i can't fish, but I've got a cooler load of them anyway. no skill involved at all. might as well put on a pink outfit, with matching shoes and bow before leaving the house.

#2) 3 gazillion guides taking a couple trips a day, a lot of them using the yennie method. raping the reefs day in day out.

No pun intended, but seems everybody, their dog, and cat included is a guide. the whole world is a guide now. no limit to the number of them or?? insane

I think these 2 things kill more fish then anything else. But I'm not an expert just my 2 cents.


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## Sgrem (Oct 5, 2005)

Just limit ole sharkchum to 5 trout....then we will have to duck down in the boat to change baits and bring an extra prop cuz the shear numbers of fish they will be snapping at the shiny prop.


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## Salty_UH (Feb 15, 2017)

you gotta take these shows for what they are...ol' salty dawgs that are everyday fishermen that lived in a day of unicorns and rainbows compared to today

i religiously listen to the outdoor show on podcast thurs-sun and appreciate the camaraderie the old outdoor friends share

as for the topic, 5 limit is a good thing for trout and we need to alter the red slot

however, TPWD was on the show after Harvey and he clearly stated Galveston bay area has shown NO decline in fishery health as the other bays further south in Texas did....the creel and TPWD survey's are the only thing that will drive this limit change....


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## SaltwaterSlick (Jun 11, 2012)

Good grief, this thread is about as whiney as those old has been's pod cast...

I take great exception to you who tell me how many fish I "need". I catch trout and reds for 2 things... fun/excietment, and to EAT those suckers! Went to the Chandeleur's last year and our group caught KEPT, cleaned and ATE over 400 trout to 27 1/2"... we didn't keep anything that would not have been legal in Texas waters (all over 15", most in the 18-22")... Goin' back next month and hope to do it again... Then again in October...

For those of you who think you cannot preserve trout/reds for an extended period of time in the freezer, you are not caring for your catch properly. We finished up our share of the Chandeleur's catch a couple weeks ago from last June's trip, and it was delicious... some fried, some on the griddle with lemon/butter/salt/pepper... 

I don't get to go as often as I used to, nowhere near it. When I do go, I don't catch and release unless you're talkin' bout catchin' in the water and releasin' in the grease!


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## reb (Aug 12, 2005)

Better gear, boats, and more people definitely are new problems we face. Galveston bay is large but you can fish anywhere in the bay system in a matter of minutes and word of hot spots travels faster and deeper than ever since we all are online 24/7 with mobile devices. More people fishing minus same amount of fish equals less fish if limits are not changed. Simple math!


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## Bullitt4439 (Sep 18, 2014)

Maybe more people fishing, but seems not many know how to catch fish. 

Many of my dads buddies, now my mutual fishing buddies have gone out and bought 50k+ boats after going out and catching some trout with us. 

The average number of keeper trout most of them catch per trip? 2. One guy has been out 6 times this year and not come home with a keeper fish.....

For me I could care less if the limit dropped to 5 fish, but I am blessed enough to go fish the salt 4 times a month, and rarely do I come home with less than 3 keeper trout. 12 fish a month is honestly more than I need and I end up giving some away. If I could only go twice a year my opinion would be different. 

If TPWD says long term numbers are on track, this keyboard warrior says let them do their job, they know WAY more than I do.

If you want to get stupid crazy with the limit I would say make the slot from 14-22 and you get one tag on your license for a "mounting" fish each year no bs letting people keep a 25 inch fish every trip if they desire.


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## beauxedup (Mar 20, 2017)

SaltwaterSlick said:


> Good grief, this thread is about as whiney as those old has been's pod cast...
> 
> I take great exception to you who tell me how many fish I "need". I catch trout and reds for 2 things... fun/excietment, and to EAT those suckers! Went to the Chandeleur's last year and our group caught KEPT, cleaned and ATE over 400 trout to 27 1/2"... we didn't keep anything that would not have been legal in Texas waters (all over 15", most in the 18-22")... Goin' back next month and hope to do it again... Then again in October...
> 
> ...


x2


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## Danno93 (Apr 15, 2006)

*To each his own...*

If using croaker or shrimp help me catch trout then so be it. Do I care what a guide or wanna be guide thinks of that? Nope. As long as it's legal to use them as bait I will. Just because you choose to release fish to fight another day that's your business. I don't, and that's my business. Maybe people should stop worrying about what every body else is doing and do their own thing. Too many followers doing and saying things because it fits the masses idea of a good fisherman. Pfft... I'll continue to keep 10 trout all caught on croaker and enjoy every last bite.


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## SaltwaterSlick (Jun 11, 2012)

I may have to look into this "croaker" thing... never fished with 'em. I'm pretty much a hardware guy and seem to be successful in catching fish if I can find 'em. I have been known to use shrimp, but in reality, they're too expensive and I don't like the hassle of having to wait in line to buy 'em when I could be on the way to my first stop and that first hook early in the morning while it's still breaking day... Fighting crowds at the bait camps just takes some of the fun out of it for me so I generally don't do it... What I do catch goes in the box tho. and not one bit is wasted...


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## Muddskipper (Dec 29, 2004)

Maybe every guide gets catch shares... works great for snapper

Even across the board.... 

This is sarcasm BTW....


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## BigTim (Dec 3, 2006)

Some of ya'll will remember gas rationing, when cars with even plates bought gas on even days and cars with odd plates could buy gas on odd days.

Well... hows about boats with even registration numbers can only fish on even days and boats with odd registration numbers can only fish on odd days. 

There, problem solved ...sarcasm


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## TxDuSlayer (Jun 24, 2006)

Does Mike Williams still fish anymore? He always calls in but never a report. Just him and his arrogant talking he thinks he so smart and everyone else are morons compared to him!!!!


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## BBCAT (Feb 2, 2010)

If they cut the limit in half, will all these guides reduce their price?


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## Category6 (Nov 21, 2007)

Funny I listened to Williams AND Eastman talking about how the 5 fish movement was BS a couple of years ago, how it wasn't based on scientific evidence and how one hard freeze would do more harm than all the guide boats could in 20 years.


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## Sgrem (Oct 5, 2005)

Guides dont sell limits.

What is your daily compensation?


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

I think guides are an important part of the coastal economy. They offer inexpensive access to a public resource. They take people out to midbay reefs and catch fish that would other wise be inaccessible. Hotels, diners, bars etcâ€¦ all benefit.

With that being said. How many thousands of pounds of trout and redfish have Mr. Eastman, Mr. Plagg and others are responsible for harvesting over the last 40 years? I have not done the math but probably in access of 1/2 a million pounds between them over the years. Maybe more maybe less but its safe to say thousands and thousands of pounds.

They have paid for houses, cars, kids education etcâ€¦ Really no different than my father who was a commercial fisherman and made a living off the same resource.

So I have mixed feelings about just exactly what these guides motives really are? Preservation of a resource? Or an easier, quicker limit for their clients resulting in more cash in their pockets?

Which is why i prefer data based management led by professional biologists armed with hard data and facts over opinion, hidden agenda and greed.

Lets hire the right people, give them the right tools and maximize the benefits to everyone with conservation of the resource as the main goal.


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## gater (May 25, 2004)

*Guides*



Its Catchy said:


> I think guides are an important part of the coastal economy. They offer inexpensive access to a public resource. They take people out to midbay reefs and catch fish that would other wise be inaccessible. Hotels, diners, bars etcâ€¦ all benefit.
> 
> With that being said. How many thousands of pounds of trout and redfish have Mr. Eastman, Mr. Plagg and others are responsible for harvesting over the last 40 years? I have not done the math but probably in access of 1/2 a million pounds between them over the years. Maybe more maybe less but its safe to say thousands and thousands of pounds.
> 
> ...


What motives, hidden agenda and greed are you talking about!


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## c hook (Jul 6, 2016)

*waiting in the welfare line*

Getting up before the roosters (3am) to beat the crowd to wait in line to spend $100.00 plus (life savings)bucks on a bucket of barking monkeys. so you can race to the reef and ease in between a couple hundred boats. now that is what I really get excited about and look forward to.

lol


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## thinshavings (May 11, 2010)

Bullitt4439 said:


> Maybe more people fishing, but seems not many know how to catch fish.
> 
> Many of my dads buddies, now my mutual fishing buddies have gone out and bought 50k+ boats after going out and catching some trout with us.
> 
> ...


If TPW knows so much why did they let the slaughter of trout happen when they were stacked up after the floods?


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## Duckchasr (Apr 27, 2011)

I think the old timers know what the guides were getting at, back in the day although the fish were plentiful you had to work harder as in marking spots, finding safe routes to and from fishing spots all without the aid of gps They mostly all ran deep v's and they got out and FISHED shallow shorelines. The word of mouth was the only fishing report with some newspapers reports after the fact. Now the influx of technology you can buy a detailed map of ever bay that shows almost every fish holding feature in the entire bay and run a safe path to the gps points with a boat that will draft on a drop of dew. Now people scout by running for miles down the fish holding shorelines with no concern of folks wading. If they happen to catch fish it's usually on facebook live. That's kinda what I got out of it. I think we should also give Croaker a game-fish status and maybe we will see a return of the Croaker runs of old days.


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## Blk Jck 224 (Oct 16, 2009)

Duckchasr said:


> I think we should also give Croaker a game-fish status and maybe we will see a return of the Croaker runs of old days.


 :biggrin: :clover: :brew2: :clover: :shamrock: :clover: :brew2: :clover: :biggrin:


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## Sgrem (Oct 5, 2005)

thinshavings said:


> If TPW knows so much why did they let the slaughter of trout happen when they were stacked up after the floods?


TPW let a slaughter of trout happen? You do know that every single dolphin in the bay will eat more trout today than most people catch in a month or two or even three months. Three months worth of trout....every day....every dolphin in the bay.....even during thunderstorms when noone is fishing.

Next we will blame it on facebook, or cameras, or texting each other where we are getting bit.....or holy moly youtube instructional videos decimating our gamefish!

Personal accountability. You dont have to wait for TPW to save those fish from you.
Nature.
Evolution of the bay. Patterns do change. Talk to a shrimper. Or oysterman. The work boat fleet migrates with those targets to.

There is nothing to adjust. Except our own attitudes. Stop being critical of how everyone else does it. Fish however you like. If your success is dictated by a giant cooler full of fish or a pile of fish stacked on the dock then i sure feel sorry for ya.

Shoot the dolphin. Clearly thats the only answer to save the Texas fisheries.


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

thinshavings said:


> If TPW knows so much why did they let the slaughter of trout happen when they were stacked up after the floods?


So catching a limit has become slaughter? Wow..

Are we not supposed to go fishing any time the fish are stacked up? Texas already has some of the most conservative limits on the entire Gulf and East Coasts.


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## Blk Jck 224 (Oct 16, 2009)

sgrem said:


> Shoot the dolphin. Clearly thats the only answer to save the Texas fisheries.


I LIKE THAT IDEA! Lets get all our CCA chapters together & petition TPWD for just one day a year for bottlenose eradication...I will be at the ramp distributing a box of 3" #2 steel for everyone participating in this initiative!...I might have to get Mickey a box for his 20 gauge...Might be getting a little tough for him to still be swinging a 12.


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## Sgrem (Oct 5, 2005)

All i shoot is 20 too. Cuz im tiny and feeble.
Prolly need some T shot....or at least BBB.

The #2 has too much stray shot. Might hit some trout....this fishery cant have friendly fire casualties.


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## hockeyref999 (Aug 12, 2005)

Don’t let these captains ruin your day. Just don’t listen. I gave up that show when Bob Jr. left. Haven’t missed it for one second.


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## Category6 (Nov 21, 2007)

I recommend the .30-06, .308 and .300 win mag for dolphin. I can't find any info on the net about bag limits though, I guess they aren't protected.


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## Sgrem (Oct 5, 2005)

Are you crazy? Everyone knows .270 is the preferred for Texas Dolphin.

But im sure there will be those that say they have done it with their .22-250.....

Neck shots only....behind the shoulder is always iffy. Which goes against everything we usually discuss.


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## Category6 (Nov 21, 2007)

.264 win mag is pretty amazing too, never heard of a blood trail more that 3 fathoms


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## Blk Jck 224 (Oct 16, 2009)

sgrem said:


> Are you crazy?
> 
> Perhaps...I think we should drop you off on Bull Hill sporting a loin cloth and armed only with a spear & knife...Go Tarzan on their arse!


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## ccketchum (Oct 18, 2010)

i agree with mr. grem...., if your weighing your fun in lbs and oz's , your doing it wrong .


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## Sgrem (Oct 5, 2005)

Best fishing trip of my life was when we fished solid dusk to dawn for 6 days. Kept three small fish that had it in the gills and despite best efforts bellied up and wouldnt recover....

We never discussed limits. The ice chest on board was only big enough for a few waters and apples. 8 people and not one cared what the pile at the dock looked like. Not one cared if we had any pictures to post.


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## Sgrem (Oct 5, 2005)

thinshavings said:


> If TPW knows so much why did they let the slaughter of trout happen when they were stacked up after the floods?


......or eliminate the 10 tournaments every week targeting and taking out big trout.


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## SaltwaterSlick (Jun 11, 2012)

Sure be fun to bowfish those bottlenose... bet they'd fight more than the gator gar did in my avatar... :an6::camera:


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## Category6 (Nov 21, 2007)

Dolphin steaks are really the best the sea has to offer, like veal fed only trout and flounder!


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## pipeliner24 (Apr 10, 2013)

Nobody makes a guide keep 10 trout per customer,I know Greg Francis has voluntarily gone to a 5 trout per customer limit.I know a lot of other guides down south will knock off some of their fee if you'll agree to catch and release.Im all for a 5 fish limit,not because I know things would improve but because I know it wouldn't hurt anything.I don't think tournaments hurt the trout population either,most guys fishing tournaments would still be fishing if there wasn't a tournament and most respectable tournaments are live weigh ins.I wish they would legalized taking one dolphin per trip inshore and 2 offshore,I hate those trout eating snapper killing bastards!


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## td288 (Sep 6, 2010)

*10 ?*



sgrem said:


> ......or eliminate the 10 tournaments every week targeting and taking out big trout.


Really? 10 trophy trout tournaments every week! I only remember 1 in the Galveston area this year and it was once a month and a total of 4 tournaments All were LIVE weigh in. Trout tournaments have been around. Don't think the trophy trout tournaments are the problem.


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## 2Ws (Jun 28, 2016)

5 reds with a 16-18" minimum


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

All you guys wanting to kill off the dolphins are gonna be sorry once their mothership comes back. I saw it on tv. Big sucker.


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## rsulgo75 (Jun 11, 2017)

I'm 43 years old. I grew up soaking dead bait in every river mouth and jetty on the Texas coat. I've seen redfish runs, tarpon runs, flounder runs, 5k fun runs. I've even gotten the runs. But what in the world is a croaked run of the good ol' days. I'd like to include it in my repertoire of stories. It's not on wikipedia.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## Category6 (Nov 21, 2007)

dwilliams35 said:


> All you guys wanting to kill off the dolphins are gonna be sorry once their mothership comes back. I saw it on tv. Big sucker.


I'll take my chances! I know they're super smart and all, but so is a feral hog.


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## WoundedMinnow (Oct 11, 2011)

td288 said:


> Really? 10 trophy trout tournaments every week! I only remember 1 in the Galveston area this year and it was once a month and a total of 4 tournaments All were LIVE weigh in. Trout tournaments have been around. Don't think the trophy trout tournaments are the problem.


He didn't say trophy trout tournament. What was meant is that tournament fisherman mostly weekend warriors are targeting bigger trout for the weigh in. Nobody wants to weigh in a bag of 16" 1.75lb trout. Look on this site for how many tournaments are held up and down the coast during the summer. It's ridiculous.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk


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## capt. david (Dec 29, 2004)

So here is what I gather from all the responses to this thread. Some of them have some weight others are just nonsense. Here is my take on the issue. People on chartered trips catch the majority of trout on any given day. The general public seldom catch a limit of trout per person on a trip. I would also venture to state that the captain(guide) catches and boxes more trout than his customers on a chartered trip. So if there is a problem with our trout fishery, which TP&W does not seems there is, why not eliminate a captain from retaining any trout on a chartered trip that he or she catches?


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## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

> I think we should also give Croaker a game-fish status and maybe we will see a return of the Croaker runs of old days.


Best statement on this entire thread. And old Hal Osborne agrees with making them a game fish for a number of reasons.

TH


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## Boatflounder (Mar 12, 2007)

hell been fishing galveston bay for 11 years and have yet to catch a limit of trout, cumulative. but got lots of tasty flounders and reds and some nice spanish amckerels and a few other tasty beasts. i fissh for pleasure not dinner and dont get the whole guide thing, though they do really annoy me calling themselves captain.


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## SolarScreenGuy (Aug 15, 2005)

Trouthunter said:


> Best statement on this entire thread. And old Hal Osborne agrees with making them a game fish for a number of reasons.
> 
> TH


I agree with this statement. I caught big croakers on 51 series mirrolures at Big Lake just a couple years ago. In addition, the slaughter of trout due to the use of croaker as bait in summertime is decimating the fishery. Hundreds of guides and other fishermen are causing it. Croaker for bait is just too deadly. Go back to plugs, shrimp, or finger mullet and the trout can have a chance to rebound. Just my opinion and I know many will disagree. However, I have seen the devastation up and down the coast for many years. Deny and fill your freezers if you want, but someday you may not be able to.


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## sharkchum (Feb 10, 2012)

sgrem said:


> Just limit ole sharkchum to 5 trout....then we will have to duck down in the boat to change baits and bring an extra prop cuz the shear numbers of fish they will be snapping at the shiny prop.


I may keep tons of fish when the mood strikes me, but I still release around 90% of the fish I catch every year.


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## bayourat (Jan 7, 2005)

WoundedMinnow said:


> He didn't say trophy trout tournament. What was meant is that tournament fisherman mostly weekend warriors are targeting bigger trout for the weigh in. Nobody wants to weigh in a bag of 16" 1.75lb trout. Look on this site for how many tournaments are held up and down the coast during the summer. It's ridiculous.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk


You realize most tournament guys release fish 99% of the time.... they ARE NOT the problem.


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## Snaggletoothfrecklefish (Jul 11, 2016)

Yellow flags are flying at most of the bait shops already! Go get em!


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## sharkchum (Feb 10, 2012)

I can't believe with all the responses on here, not a single person has brought up what the real problem is with our fishery.
Every one want's to blame guides, shrimpers, dolphins, croaker, tournaments, and limits, but the real problem is people. We have destroyed our ecosystem. What used to be thousands of acres of marsh that acted as a buffer for run off, has been filled in to build houses. Our estuaries have been destroyed in the name of progress. All the refineries along the coast are polluting our coastal waters daily, but no one cares, because of the money. Agency's like the EPA or TCEQ have limits set on the maximum a company can be fined a day for polluting. If they can only be fined $25k a day for polluting, but they are making $10 million a day, then it's just good business to keep polluting. 
How may of you fertilize your grass to keep it green, only for most of it to end up in the bay after a rain? How many of you have seen grass mowers in your neighborhoods blowing leaves and grass clippings into a storm drain inlet and never thought nothing about it? How many of you have water front property that's not bulkheaded? Almost every bit of the runoff in Texas ends up in a Texas bay, along with all the contaminants.
We have destroyed all the nursery areas in Texas bays, just from our population, but no one cares.
After all, the refineries provide countless jobs and bring billions to the Texas economy, it doesn't matter if they are killing us. 
Who needs a big marsh to filter out all the run off and provide a nursery for the entire ecosystem for the bay, it just breeds mosquito's and looks much better when it's all houses and concrete. 
Who cares what all the fertilizer does, as long as my grass in greener than my neighbors.
I'm not giving up my big V8 that only gets 10mpg, just to save the planet.


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## Hayniedude24 (Jun 15, 2016)

rsulgo75 said:


> I'm 43 years old. I grew up soaking dead bait in every river mouth and jetty on the Texas coat. I've seen redfish runs, tarpon runs, flounder runs, 5k fun runs. I've even gotten the runs. But what in the world is a croaked run of the good ol' days. I'd like to include it in my repertoire of stories. It's not on wikipedia.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


Lol! Someone answer this guys question because that is funny but valid. I can't answer it as we didn't have croaker "runs" in the lower mid/lower where I did all my fishing growing up. I guess the croaker runs were a Galveston to Sabine thing?


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## atcfisherman (Oct 5, 2006)

sharkchum said:


> I can't believe with all the responses on here, not a single person has brought up what the real problem is with our fishery.
> Every one want's to blame guides, shrimpers, dolphins, croaker, tournaments, and limits, but the real problem is people. We have destroyed our ecosystem. What used to be thousands of acres of marsh that acted as a buffer for run off, has been filled in to build houses. Our estuaries have been destroyed in the name of progress. All the refineries along the coast are polluting our coastal waters daily, but no one cares, because of the money. Agency's like the EPA or TCEQ have limits set on the maximum a company can be fined a day for polluting. If they can only be fined $25k a day for polluting, but they are making $10 million a day, then it's just good business to keep polluting.
> How may of you fertilize your grass to keep it green, only for most of it to end up in the bay after a rain? How many of you have seen grass mowers in your neighborhoods blowing leaves and grass clippings into a storm drain inlet and never thought nothing about it? How many of you have water front property that's not bulkheaded? Almost every bit of the runoff in Texas ends up in a Texas bay, along with all the contaminants.
> We have destroyed all the nursery areas in Texas bays, just from our population, but no one cares.
> ...


You hit the nail on the head. It's just like when people see the fish advisories and say, "I've been eating them for years and no problems." Sure, the problems doesn't show up immediately, but when you are older and cancer shows up, it will sink in then.


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## Hayniedude24 (Jun 15, 2016)

sharkchum said:


> I can't believe with all the responses on here, not a single person has brought up what the real problem is with our fishery.
> Every one want's to blame guides, shrimpers, dolphins, croaker, tournaments, and limits, but the real problem is people. We have destroyed our ecosystem. What used to be thousands of acres of marsh that acted as a buffer for run off, has been filled in to build houses. Our estuaries have been destroyed in the name of progress. All the refineries along the coast are polluting our coastal waters daily, but no one cares, because of the money. Agency's like the EPA or TCEQ have limits set on the maximum a company can be fined a day for polluting. If they can only be fined $25k a day for polluting, but they are making $10 million a day, then it's just good business to keep polluting.
> How may of you fertilize your grass to keep it green, only for most of it to end up in the bay after a rain? How many of you have seen grass mowers in your neighborhoods blowing leaves and grass clippings into a storm drain inlet and never thought nothing about it? How many of you have water front property that's not bulkheaded? Almost every bit of the runoff in Texas ends up in a Texas bay, along with all the contaminants.
> We have destroyed all the nursery areas in Texas bays, just from our population, but no one cares.
> ...


Hmmm. Neh, I think it's strictly croaker.


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## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

> You realize most tournament guys release fish 99% of the time


Only if they're fishing live weigh in tournaments.

TH


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## Trouthappy (Jun 12, 2008)

Big industry comes first on the upper Texas coast, shipping and refineries. It's amazing Galveston Bay keeps producing so many fish. But now there are too many people with fine boats and high-tech gear. It's inevitable the trout bag limit will be cut to five. Across the Sabine, the meat-fishers are hammering 25 trout whenever they can. That's a lot of fish that won't move into Texas waters. Sabine Lake lost a few square miles of bay water and grassy shoreline way back in 1968, when they built the north and south levies to fill in with dredged silt. I was there. It trapped a lot of fish and we hammered them, and then came the dredged silt. The Port Arthur ship channel is overdue for more dredging.

Trout are targeted too much. It's all anyone knows. Every charter wants their trout, like they want ham sandwiches. 
I wouldn't doubt many of the guides only know how to catch trout and little else. And they don't bother to teach their
clients anything else, either. Nor do they preach conservation. Last Friday I talked a guy into releasing 22 and 25 inch
trout, told him they were full of eggs. He still got his limit of five smaller trout and redfish. I was going to teach him about 
Spanish mackerel, but we lost the only one hooked that day.


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## MarkU (Jun 3, 2013)

Maybe the fish are getting smarter. Time for some new lures!


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## BretE (Jan 24, 2008)

MarkU said:


> Maybe the fish are getting smarter. Time for some new lures!


Here ya go......









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Duckchasr (Apr 27, 2011)

MarkU said:


> Maybe the fish are getting smarter. Time for some new lures!


Nah the old 3/4 johnson gold spoon still wacks 'em the :fishy:surf. 
I think Sharkchum has a valid point. They are trying to rebuild some marsh areas. But I think it should be required that all dredge should be used to make more bird island marshes in our bays.


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## cman (Apr 17, 2009)

> All the refineries along the coast are polluting our coastal waters daily, but no one cares, because of the money. Agency's like the EPA or TCEQ have limits set on the maximum a company can be fined a day for polluting. If they can only be fined $25k a day for polluting, but they are making $10 million a day, then it's just good business to keep polluting.


This.


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## bayourat (Jan 7, 2005)

Trouthunter said:


> Only if they're fishing live weigh in tournaments.
> 
> TH


meant fishing other days than tournament day.


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## SaltwaterSlick (Jun 11, 2012)

sharkchum said:


> I can't believe with all the responses on here, not a single person has brought up what the real problem is with our fishery.
> Every one want's to blame guides, shrimpers, dolphins, croaker, tournaments, and limits, but the real problem is people. We have destroyed our ecosystem. What used to be thousands of acres of marsh that acted as a buffer for run off, has been filled in to build houses. Our estuaries have been destroyed in the name of progress. All the refineries along the coast are polluting our coastal waters daily, but no one cares, because of the money. Agency's like the EPA or TCEQ have limits set on the maximum a company can be fined a day for polluting. If they can only be fined $25k a day for polluting, but they are making $10 million a day, then it's just good business to keep polluting.
> How may of you fertilize your grass to keep it green, only for most of it to end up in the bay after a rain? How many of you have seen grass mowers in your neighborhoods blowing leaves and grass clippings into a storm drain inlet and never thought nothing about it? How many of you have water front property that's not bulkheaded? Almost every bit of the runoff in Texas ends up in a Texas bay, along with all the contaminants.
> We have destroyed all the nursery areas in Texas bays, just from our population, but no one cares.
> ...


Oh heck no!! I was with you "Chum" 'til you went and bad-mouthed my V8!!


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## BretE (Jan 24, 2008)

cman said:


> This.


Not the case from what I know...somebody that does, post up the fine table and expand on this. This ainâ€™t the old days anymore...

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## sharkchum (Feb 10, 2012)

BretE said:


> Not the case from what I know...somebody that does, post up the fine table and expand on this. This ainâ€™t the old days anymore...
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Here's the fine table for TCEQ. The one for the EPA starts at $25,000 for the first year then goes up every year, until the 6th year where it max's out at $100,000 per day. It's still cheaper to keep polluting and pay the fine then it is to fix the problem.









Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## Cut n Shoot (Dec 11, 2015)

Water quality in the Galveston Bay complex is the best since the 50's,when mills,refineries, cities dumped raw waste into Buffalo Bayou .He'll, one could light the bayou in flames from Allens Landing to Morgans Point it was so polluted. Try again.. It's pressure, fishing pressure, plain and simple.


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## BretE (Jan 24, 2008)

sharkchum said:


> Here's the fine table for TCEQ. The one for the EPA starts at $25,000 for the first year then goes up every year, until the 6th year where it max's out at $100,000 per day. It's still cheaper to keep polluting and pay the fine then it is to fix the problem.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thereâ€™s a little more to it than that.....










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## MarkU (Jun 3, 2013)

Cut n Shoot said:


> Water quality in the Galveston Bay complex is the best since the 50's,when mills,refineries, cities dumped raw waste into Buffalo Bayou .He'll, one could light the bayou in flames from Allens Landing to Morgans Point it was so polluted. Try again.. It's pressure, fishing pressure, plain and simple.


I'm still sticking with new tackle. :brew2:


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## LandLocked (Apr 28, 2005)

customflat said:


> Anyone with a boat can get a captains lisence, four dozen croaker, and customers with no fishing skill and load the boat. This is doing more harm to the big trout than anything else, in my opinion. When we get a big fresh water influx into Trinity, the fish get stacked up on a few reefs in East Bay. You will see 50+ boats on one reef, with the big trout stock getting decimated by the croaker soakers. Croaker should be classified as a game fish, and live bait fishermen should use SHRIMP. I know this will ruffle some feathers but so be it. Rant over.


100% agree.


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## gary.curlin (Apr 11, 2015)

How about a yearly limit of 100. If I am retired and go fishing 50 days a year and keep 5 a trip it seems like I have a bigger impact than the occasional fisherman who keeps 10.

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## Cut n Shoot (Dec 11, 2015)

MarkU said:


> I'm still sticking with new tackle. :brew2:


Lol.Them old Kelly Wigglers, root beer,caught thousands of pounds of trout. I know for a fact of stringers so heavy with 5-7 lb. trout, big arse flounder, that you wouldn't believe.Here I am going back to the op's point. 'Back in the day'.....The hatchery redfish that do not return to the open gulf to spawn are a huge factor. Bull reds don't leave the bays anymore. The Channel is 50 ft. deep. Redfish kill a huge proportion of trout.


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## Csafisher (Nov 16, 2010)

gary.curlin said:


> How about a yearly limit of 100. If I am retired and go fishing 50 days a year and keep 5 a trip it seems like I have a bigger impact than the occasional fisherman who keeps 10.
> 
> Sent from my LG-K550 using Tapatalk


Trout tags! Just like duck tags! Buy them per roll of 20.


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## sharkchum (Feb 10, 2012)

BretE said:


> Thereâ€™s a little more to it than that.....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 There's actually a lot more to it, mostly the word "can" , as in the "can" levy more fines, but they don't. 
I've had to report to TCEQ for almost 25 years and have never been fined. I've also only personally seen them fine 2 companies. They don't really do anything, as long as you report the problem. If you continue to have violations and not report them, then they may fine you, but usually just give you a warning. 
Take Harvey for example, almost every wastewater plant along the coast of Texas had " accidental discharge", due the flooding, but TCEQ didn't fine anyone because it was a natural disaster and not operator error. But still, billions of gallons of raw sewer ended up in the bays.
I'll admit, I've never worked in a refinery, but all my friends that do tell me it's the same way there, you only get in trouble if you get caught.


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## sharkchum (Feb 10, 2012)

Cut n Shoot said:


> Water quality in the Galveston Bay complex is the best since the 50's,when mills,refineries, cities dumped raw waste into Buffalo Bayou .He'll, one could light the bayou in flames from Allens Landing to Morgans Point it was so polluted. Try again.. It's pressure, fishing pressure, plain and simple.


 A lot has changed since the 50's. The water may be better, but it's whats in the mud that bothers me.
In 1950 our population was 7.776 million, now it's over 29 million, most of that is within 100 miles of the coast.
The Galveston bay complex alone has lost over 35,000 acres of wetlands since the 50's, mostly due to urban expansion.
I agree that there is more fishing pressure then in the 50's, but 90% of the people fishing still can't catch a limit, so I don't see how lowering the limit's will solve our habitat problem. 
The shrimp, crabs, bait fish, and game fish need estuaries, and we are destroying them at a alarming rate.


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## BretE (Jan 24, 2008)

I canâ€™t dispute a lot of the above. Mostly true in anything. You donâ€™t get in trouble unless you get caught. The TCEQ does audit but you generally know itâ€™s coming. 

That being said, the part about individual responsibility is definitely a deterrent. Itâ€™s rare, granted, but would you want to take responsibility for a massive out of compliance discharge risking jail time? I know, they hardly ever do it, but are you willing to cover up a monster discharge of, say benzene, betting theyâ€™ll just fine you with a slap on the wrist. Not to mention the bad publicity that comes with it. Somehow â€œtheyâ€ miraculously find out.

Been at this almost 32 years, times have changed, dramatically. Iâ€™ve seen it firsthand....

Lastly, it pains me to even think about taking up for the plant side of this debate. I have some major issues with them myself. Thatâ€™s for another day, but in this case I will say things are quite a bit different from the old days....




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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

The bottom line is this.

Ship channels, intracoastal waterways, and Dams on every major river were never really in mother natures plans for our bays systems. We need the industry so they are here to stay.

But our bays will be less productive then they were prior to say 1950. Fresh water no longer mixes with saltwater gently. It pours out in heavy rainfall events and pours in on storm tides.

So using exaggerated stories about the "good old days" from guides is probably not the best metric. That is why I prefer the data from TPWD trained biologists and ignore whining on internet forums...


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## jeffm66 (Sep 14, 2010)

What or who would a 5 trout limit hurt ? Why not do it ? The rest of Texas has it. 


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## sharkchum (Feb 10, 2012)

rsulgo75 said:


> I'm 43 years old. I grew up soaking dead bait in every river mouth and jetty on the Texas coat. I've seen redfish runs, tarpon runs, flounder runs, 5k fun runs. I've even gotten the runs. But what in the world is a croaked run of the good ol' days. I'd like to include it in my repertoire of stories. It's not on wikipedia.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


 The "croaker run" is a annual migration of large croaker from the bay to the gulf. This usually happens in October/November, and it's not uncommon to fill and ice chest up with croaker from 12" to 18" long. The best places to fish this run are areas where the bay and gulf meet, like Rollover Pass, San Louis Pass, Mitchells cut, or any of the jetties in Texas. The #1 bait of choice is fresh dead shrimp, and with a double drop leader you can catch them 2 at a time.
Now, despite what people say about the good ole' days being gone, the croaker run still happens every year, and you can still fill your ice chest.
The truth of the matter is, the same people that say all the big croaker are gone don't know, because they don't fish for croaker anymore.
The same time the croaker are leaving the bays, so are the flounder, and while they are leaving the bull reds are coming in. But that's not all, most of the shrimp are leaving the bays during the same period, which is the best time of the year to chase trout under the birds.
So during the same time frame you can target trout, reds, flounder, or croaker. What would your choice be?
Most people try to fill the freezer with flounder before they leave, some people chose the enticement of chasing trout under the birds, and me personally pick the bull reds, but less then 5% of fishermen are gonna spend the best fishing of the year catching croaker.
These are not my opinions, they are facts, but most people would rather ignore the facts, and blame people like me for a decline in trout and croaker populations.
I was taught to work smarter, not harder. I catch 10Xs the about of fish on artificials every year, then I do on croaker, but from May through September I would rather fill the boat in 30 minuits using croaker, then spend all day in the hot sun casting and reeling.


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## sharkchum (Feb 10, 2012)

jeffm66 said:


> What or who would a 5 trout limit hurt ? Why not do it ? The rest of Texas has it.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 It wouldn't hurt anything, but it wouldn't help any thing either. My main problem with lowering the limits, is once the are lowered, they will never go back up. All TP&W does is take away, they never give back.
Just take a look at the redfish, they are taking over. I can't get within 20 miles of the coast with out redfish jumping in my cooler. They need to raise the limit and reduce the minimum size, but it will never happen.


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## MarkU (Jun 3, 2013)

Here's another thing to note. Having more than twice the daily bag in your possession. That technically includes your freezer(s).


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## Sgrem (Oct 5, 2005)

....sorry that possession limit statement is incorrect per the outdoor annual definitions of possession limit....


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## bwguardian (Aug 30, 2005)

sgrem said:


> ....sorry that possession limit statement is incorrect per the outdoor annual definitions of possession limit....


That must have been changed recently. From what I remember it used to be worded as final destination and not residence. Did you get that from the TPWD website?


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## Bocephus (May 30, 2008)

sgrem said:


> ....sorry that possession limit statement is incorrect per the outdoor annual definitions of possession limit....


I'm glad we cleared that up....


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## MarkU (Jun 3, 2013)

sgrem said:


> ....sorry that possession limit statement is incorrect per the outdoor annual definitions of possession limit....


My bad, this is what I was always told growing up.


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## MarkU (Jun 3, 2013)

Bocephus said:


> I'm glad we cleared that up....


That is entirely too many filets. You sir are a hoarder, and need an intervention. When shall I show up and help you with that mess?


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## Sgrem (Oct 5, 2005)

bwguardian said:


> That must have been changed recently. From what I remember it used to be worded as final destination and not residence. Did you get that from the TPWD website?


TPWD Outdoor Annual App. It is a very well done app for quick access to info and clarifications to questions.


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## Bocephus (May 30, 2008)

MarkU said:


> That is entirely too many filets. You sir are a hoarder, and need an intervention. When shall I show up and help you with that mess?


Trust me, my family makes sure none go to waste.


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## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

tec said:


> In a nutshell what did they say?


I have this uncontrollable urge to say that in a nutshell, they said "Our poop doesn't stink."


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## SaltwaterSlick (Jun 11, 2012)

sharkchum said:


> The "croaker run" is a annual migration of large croaker from the bay to the gulf. This usually happens in October/November, and it's not uncommon to fill and ice chest up with croaker from 12" to 18" long. The best places to fish this run are areas where the bay and gulf meet, like Rollover Pass, San Louis Pass, Mitchells cut, or any of the jetties in Texas. The #1 bait of choice is fresh dead shrimp, and with a double drop leader you can catch them 2 at a time.
> Now, despite what people say about the good ole' days being gone, the croaker run still happens every year, and you can still fill your ice chest.
> The truth of the matter is, the same people that say all the big croaker are gone don't know, because they don't fish for croaker anymore.
> The same time the croaker are leaving the bays, so are the flounder, and while they are leaving the bull reds are coming in. But that's not all, most of the shrimp are leaving the bays during the same period, which is the best time of the year to chase trout under the birds.
> ...





sharkchum said:


> It wouldn't hurt anything, but it wouldn't help any thing either. My main problem with lowering the limits, is once the are lowered, they will never go back up. All TP&W does is take away, they never give back.
> Just take a look at the redfish, they are taking over. I can't get within 20 miles of the coast with out redfish jumping in my cooler. They need to raise the limit and reduce the minimum size, but it will never happen.


Spot on "Chum"! East of the Sabine, the limit on reds if 5/day with a much wider slot, and at the Chandeleur's in recent years, I've seen schools of reds running down the islands that was literally miles long! Wore myself out catching 'em and culling to get five good eatin' fish out of thousands that were running down the beach on the "outside"... Pretty common occurrance out there again.


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## dk2429 (Mar 27, 2015)

James Plaag is bad ***.. Been fishing with him twice and does nothing but put you on the fish. You'll start getting tired of catching trout every cast! Hell, half the fun was listening to that dude talk. He has a mouth on him, but you'll be rolling laughing. He's very entertaining. Awesome dude!


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

sharkchum said:


> It wouldn't hurt anything, but it wouldn't help any thing either. My main problem with lowering the limits, is once the are lowered, they will never go back up. All TP&W does is take away, they never give back.
> Just take a look at the redfish, they are taking over. I can't get within 20 miles of the coast with out redfish jumping in my cooler. They need to raise the limit and reduce the minimum size, but it will never happen.


X2

I would go as far as to allow a commercial limit on redfish to thin the heard. They are voracious eaters and we now have the ability to raise them in hatcheries. They are thick in water nearly fresh to the open gulf in 6" to 65'. I think they are so thick they are competing with trout for food.


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## sharkchum (Feb 10, 2012)

Its Catchy said:


> X2
> 
> I would go as far as to allow a commercial limit on redfish to thin the heard. They are voracious eaters and we now have the ability to raise them in hatcheries. They are thick in water nearly fresh to the open gulf in 6" to 65'. I think they are so thick they are competing with trout for food.


I think they are eating trout for food. I've caught several with baby trout in their stomach.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## Category6 (Nov 21, 2007)

I say 5 and 5. Five reds 15-30" and five trout 15-25". Done. That will shift some guide focus towards redfish and help to even things out.


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## poppadawg (Aug 10, 2007)

rsulgo75 said:


> I'm 43 years old. I grew up soaking dead bait in every river mouth and jetty on the Texas coat. I've seen redfish runs, tarpon runs, flounder runs, 5k fun runs. I've even gotten the runs. But what in the world is a croaked run of the good ol' days. I'd like to include it in my repertoire of stories. It's not on wikipedia.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


Heres a pic from rollover.


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

Fishing morphed from loading up the family station wagon to get a mess of fish to eat in the 1950's into 100,000 dollar Truck, boat and trailer fishing machines that target the ever elusive 10 pound trout.

If you are "poor" enough to run down to the coast with a john boat and some dead shrimp you can still catch a mess of croaker in September/October.


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## Category6 (Nov 21, 2007)

poppadawg said:


> Heres a pic from rollover.


And I bet nobody's car was locked or broken into at rollover back then, times have sure changed!


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## roundman (May 21, 2004)

poppadawg said:


> Heres a pic from rollover.


and the ol gulf trout :cheers:


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## gater (May 25, 2004)

*Redfish*



sharkchum said:


> It wouldn't hurt anything, but it wouldn't help any thing either. My main problem with lowering the limits, is once the are lowered, they will never go back up. All TP&W does is take away, they never give back.
> Just take a look at the redfish, they are taking over. I can't get within 20 miles of the coast with out redfish jumping in my cooler. They need to raise the limit and reduce the minimum size, but it will never happen.


Fake news!

TP&W tried that multiple times but the fishing public wanted to keep it the same.


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## BBCAT (Feb 2, 2010)

There are many factors.
1. Loss of wetlands. This is by far the biggest factor, if you don't have the nursery area the other steps offer minimal results. 
2. Increased pressure.
3. Modern methods (goes with #2) 
4.??? are the croaker soakers really that bad? I haven't done it myself. 
But I have no problem with anyone using legal methods to catch fish. I would put a turd on a hook if that what was needed to produce results that day.


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## sharkchum (Feb 10, 2012)

gater said:


> Fake news!
> 
> TP&W tried that multiple times but the fishing public wanted to keep it the same.


 By "Public" you must be talking about the money grabbing lawyers that run CCA, they are the only ones TP&W listens to. Of coarse they don't want the limits raised. The want everyone to keep thinking that the fishery is in peril so they can continue to keep getting millions of dollars a year in tax free donations. 
If they really wanted the public's opinion they should ask for it. They get my address every year when I buy my license, and they have never once sent me anything asking what I thought.


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## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

roundman said:


> and the ol gulf trout :cheers:


I must say that my dad putting the old 12hp Wizard in the trunk and clamping it on back a rental boat at Eagle Point was an absolute blast catching Gulf Trout!


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## Blk Jck 224 (Oct 16, 2009)

I once again recommend an annual bottlenose eradication initiative.


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## gater (May 25, 2004)

*Limits*



Category5 said:


> I say 5 and 5. Five reds 15-30" and five trout 15-25". Done. That will shift some guide focus towards redfish and help to even things out.


Five trout 25-30 would be better!


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## gater (May 25, 2004)

*Limit*



sharkchum said:


> By "Public" you must be talking about the money grabbing lawyers that run CCA, they are the only ones TP&W listens to. Of coarse they don't want the limits raised. The want everyone to keep thinking that the fishery is in peril so they can continue to keep getting millions of dollars a year in tax free donations.
> If they really wanted the public's opinion they should ask for it. They get my address every year when I buy my license, and they have never once sent me anything asking what I thought.


Nothing to do with CCA Sharkum, itâ€™s called public hearings or scoping meetings.
Where the TP&W suggest a change and gets the public input.


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## Salty Dog (Jan 29, 2005)

gater said:


> Nothing to do with CCA Sharkum, itâ€™s called public hearings or scoping meetings.
> Where the TP&W suggest a change and gets the public input.


Exactly. When it was brought up by TP&W the public overwhelmingly spoke up and said they wanted the redfish limits to stay where they were in spite of TP&W saying the population could support a more liberal limit. It had nothing to do with CCA.


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## sharkchum (Feb 10, 2012)

Salty Dog said:


> Exactly. When it was brought up by TP&W the public overwhelmingly spoke up and said they wanted the redfish limits to stay where they were in spite of TP&W saying the population could support a more liberal limit. It had nothing to do with CCA.


Would you happen to know how they inform the public of these meetings? Do they allow the general public to come and speak up, or do they just invite certain people? Like I said, I've never been asked my opinion. 
It just sound's like some shady behind closed doors stuff going on when they don't advertise about a public meeting, to the public.


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

Having attended a number of the TPWD's public hearings I can say they are simply a waste of time. The vast majority of the commenters are terribly ignorant crybabies.

Once again I propose we leave fisheries management to trained marine biologists. Public sentiment is not a management tool it's a recipe for disaster.


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## Salty Dog (Jan 29, 2005)

They usually post them on their website and then hold the meetings at several locations up and down the coast. usually they have a meeting somewhere around Houston, another somewhere mid-coast, like Port Lavaca or Bay City and another down south like Corpus. Or something to that effect. 

They have done this many times over the years and I have gone to a bunch of them. Both dealing with fishing regulations and hunting regulations. 

They are open public meetings, anyone can go and anyone can give their opinion. They are called public scoping meetings. I am not 100% sure but i think the last time they brought up raising the redfish limit was at the same time they were doing scoping meetings for dropping the trout limit to 5. 

TP&W also does online surveys and sometimes those are in conjunction with the scoping meetings so that you can give feedback if you can't go to the meeting. 

My experience with TP&W is that they really do listen to us. I know of several specific changes that were made to waterfowl seasons that came as a direct request from the public. Same for not increasing the redfish limit back from 3 to 5. They offered it, the public overwhelmingly said no thanks. Basically the feeling was that the redfish comeback was so successful, the fishing so good and the limit of 3 being enough to feel satisfied that they did not want to mess with what we have now. TP&W was willing to raise the limit back up.


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## MarkU (Jun 3, 2013)

Blk Jck 224 said:


> I once again recommend an annual bottlenose eradication initiative.


Flipper? How about open season on Cormorants.


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## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

> Basically the feeling was that the redfish comeback was so successful, the fishing so good and the limit of 3 being enough to feel satisfied that they did not want to mess with what we have now. TP&W was willing to raise the limit back up.


That's right on the money...and they have offered to raise the limit on reds three different times and each time the public said no thanks.



> The want everyone to keep thinking that the fishery is in peril


This is the main part of the problem...people who think that our fishery from the Sabine to the Rio Grande is NOT in peril.

Of course it is.

TH


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## Trouthappy (Jun 12, 2008)

Yep, it used to get crowded at Rollover Pass, because most people didn't have boats back in the day. An annual run of big croaker in October, and then the flounder run in November. Today, everyone has a boat and they want trout.


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## sharkchum (Feb 10, 2012)

Salty Dog said:


> They usually post them on their website and then hold the meetings at several locations up and down the coast. usually they have a meeting somewhere around Houston, another somewhere mid-coast, like Port Lavaca or Bay City and another down south like Corpus. Or something to that effect.
> 
> They have done this many times over the years and I have gone to a bunch of them. Both dealing with fishing regulations and hunting regulations.
> 
> ...


Thank's for the info, good to know.
I guess TP&W are only interested in rich people's opinions. Half the people I fish with don't own a computer or a smart phone, so they have no way to know when these meetings are coming up. I don't understand why they can't mail something out, being they have everyone's address on file who buys a fishing licences in Texas.


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## Stuart (May 21, 2004)

If we have to keep stocking millions of red drum into our system, that tells me it isn't capable of regenerating / sustaining itself, ie it is not healthy. And the last I checked, trout and reds eat a lot of the same stuff. Redfish are everywhere. Do people not think that has an effect on trout? Just asking.


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## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

> I don't understand why they can't mail something out, being they have everyone's address on file who buys a fishing licences in Texas.


With over two million licensed anglers in Texas I'd rather they spend the money on the fisheries than send out that many letters.

TH


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

Stuart said:


> If we have to keep stocking millions of red drum into our system, that tells me it isn't capable of regenerating / sustaining itself, ie it is not healthy. And the last I checked, trout and reds eat a lot of the same stuff. Redfish are everywhere. Do people not think that has an effect on trout? Just asking.


I think it has a huge impact. According to TPWD data Redfish and Drum are flourishing at the same time trout and flounder populations have struggled. Redfish will eat anything from a crab to a mullet. If redfish are highly "protected" and allowed to flourish unchecked it stands to reason they will put stress on "Spotted Weakfish" populations.

Think of it as Germany vs France. If we did not go over there twice, kick a little, all of Europe would be speaking German. The same thing with trout and redfish.


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## Its Catchy (Apr 10, 2014)

Salty Dog said:


> Exactly. When it was brought up by TP&W the public overwhelmingly spoke up and said they wanted the redfish limits to stay where they were in spite of TP&W saying the population could support a more liberal limit. It had nothing to do with CCA.


My point exactly. Our resources should not be managed by public sentiment. If TPWD data indicates redfish populations are through the roof then they limit should increased.

Otherwise you will get an imbalance in the ecosystem.

Increased limits on redfish will:

1.) Decrease fishing pressure on trout. More people will target slot reds.

2.) Decrease competition and reduce predation on Trout.


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## sharkchum (Feb 10, 2012)

Trouthunter said:


> With over two million licensed anglers in Texas I'd rather they spend the money on the fisheries than send out that many letters.
> 
> TH


I can certainly understand the cost would be high, but it's discrimination when they only inform people with internet access. I just don't think it's fair that rich people get to make all the decisions, while poor people like me have no say in the matter.


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## 223AI (May 7, 2012)

sharkchum said:


> I can certainly understand the cost would be high, but it's discrimination when they only inform people with internet access. I just don't think it's fair that rich people get to make all the decisions, while poor people like me have no say in the matter.


You have a say in the matter, we all do. I think it's disingenuous to turn it into a rich vs. poor debate.You obviously have access to a computer and the internet. for those that don't have internet access, or a computer, most everyone has a phone...be it landline, or cell, and all it takes is a quick phone call to TPWD to see when and where these meetings are being held.


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## sharkchum (Feb 10, 2012)

Stuart said:


> If we have to keep stocking millions of red drum into our system, that tells me it isn't capable of regenerating / sustaining itself, ie it is not healthy. And the last I checked, trout and reds eat a lot of the same stuff. Redfish are everywhere. Do people not think that has an effect on trout? Just asking.


I think the redfish population has a effect on trout, at least while they are young. While trout spend their whole life in or near the bays, redfish only stay in the bays for a few years, then they spend the remainder of their life off shore. Only returning in the fall to spawn. During the first few years of a redfish's life they are competing with trout for the same food. The problem is there is only so much food in the bays, due to our loss of estuaries, so our bay's can only sustain so many fish. It has to be a choice, we can have a ton of reds, or a ton of trout, but we can't have both.


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## Sgrem (Oct 5, 2005)

If TPWD biologists knows these numbers and conditions.....why cant they simply adjust their efforts at the stocking hatchery year to year to help balance. Allocate the money for stocking to more trout and less redfish. They need zero public feedback and zero regulation changes to affect huge changes there.....for same money spent at the hatcheries. Win win for all.


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