# PINS, another blow to the patrons



## 535 (May 23, 2004)

http://parkplanning.nps.gov/document.cfm?documentID=46093

15 mph speed limit from March 1 through Labor Day, permanent...

see y'all at Gorda and SPI until next fall

jc


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## fultonswimmer (Jul 3, 2008)

*PINS speed!*

Saw it coming a mile away. Recent kudos to Shaver and her turtles have been in the news plus the idiots running heck bent down there with no regards for campers, fishermen/women, kids playing, etc. probably did not help in the decision making. 15mph will take a while to get down island but maybe it will keep some kid from getting squashed by some idiot running full bore in his jacked-up, can't see all that much vehicle.


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## [email protected] (Jan 14, 2005)

It's going to be that speed limit breaker that WILL hit that kid not one of us.


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## 535 (May 23, 2004)

This is the Finding of No Significant Impact (FONSI) decision document to accompany the Padre Island National Seashore Beach Vehicle Environmental Assessment. A FONSI serves two functions for the National Park Service (NPS). The FONSI provides record that the NPS determined no significant impacts would occur if the proposal is implemented, and it explains the rationale used in selecting the alternative for implementation.


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## fuelish1 (Aug 3, 2004)

that speed limit will keep MOST of the idiots out of there....they wont go if they cant run more than that


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## justletmein (Feb 11, 2006)

LOL speed limit aint gonna keep the idiots out, they don't abide by the old higher limit either. 

As for me, I'll be doing 40+ on the low road while the tide is out but don't worry I slow down for camps. The only difference is now I'm going to purposely run over those invasive non-native introduced species on purpose when I see them.


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## 535 (May 23, 2004)

any fisherman that doesn't have a real problem with this has never, or has no plans on fishing the southern part of PINS... 15 mph from the 30mm to the Mansfield Jetties is akin to driving IH-10 from San Antonio to El paso at about 35mph

EVEYONE i know plus the park rangers/game wardens/sheriffs, etc. run 30mph PLUS on that stretch of beach... the only people who routinely travel under 20mph is the turtle patrol

the most ironic thing is the only vehicular accident that ended in a death in the last several years was.... you guessed it. Turtle Patrol, one vehicle accident at probably under 10mph


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## fultonswimmer (Jul 3, 2008)

I personally know several law enforcement officers who beg to differ with the opinion that "noone" runs within the posted limits.
There are other people besides those of us who fish that are using PINS....believe it or not....and they hopefully will be a little safer from the "IDIOTS" that run like they have somewhere to go and no time to get there. If you are in that big of a hurry and need to go fishing, go ahead and get on the newly increased highway to El Paso and fish the Rio Grande. They welcome your business.


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## 535 (May 23, 2004)

I didn't say nobody runs the posted speed limit... maybe I should clarify. Everybody I know runs reasonable speeds down south on the island... 25 feels painfully slow when the beach is EMPTY and the driving is good but I have NEVER complained about that speed limit. I have seen plenty LEO's of different divisions running 30-40 down island. Thats just a fact of life and anybody that fishes there has seen it as well.

Do the math. It will now take 8 hours to drive from the beach entrance to the jetties and back. That is nearly 10 hours from Corpus Christi and back without stopping. How many game wardens are going to be checking limits and licenses at Mansfield now?

I'm not some kind of psycho-bandit hellbent on flying down the beach but 15 mph on a vacant beach is insanely slow... I can legally run *twice* that speed down most crowded neighborhoods in San Antonio through the middle of basketball games, etc. NOT that I ever would. Just like I slow to a crawl 100 yards before reaching a camp on the southern end...

We're not talking about the jackwads that run 70 and 80 mph... they never adhered to any kind of speed limit down south anyway... we are talking about run-of-the-mill fishermen who have an incredible safety record for that stretch of beach


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## SurfRunner (May 22, 2004)

I don't thinks this helps anyone. It only discourages the good honest people from going to PINS. Its a lose lose situation for everyone.


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## Muddskipper (Dec 29, 2004)

SurfRunner said:


> I don't thinks this helps anyone. It only discourages the good honest people from going to PINS. Its a lose lose situation for everyone.


Actually it gives notice that people have been going to fast... And it's at the cost of the wildlife... And it was only a matter of time that someone was hurt....

Would you have rather them shut the beach down during the turtle season?

The balance of man and nature is tough... If those would have been responsible and slowed down in the first place we would not be seeing this regulation.


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## Bill Fisher (Apr 12, 2006)

Muddskipper said:


> turtle season


i've never hit one o'those speed bumps going so slow.........

will they still make that 'popping' sound?

!

:tongue:


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## 535 (May 23, 2004)

Muddskipper said:


> Actually it gives notice that people have been going to fast... And it's at the cost of the wildlife... And it was only a matter of time that someone was hurt....
> 
> Would you have rather them shut the beach down during the turtle season?
> 
> The balance of man and nature is tough... If those would have been responsible and slowed down in the first place we would not be seeing this regulation.


simply NOT TRUE

there has NEVER been any evidence of vehicular traffic on PINS interfering with turtles, much less running over one or killing one. Not once, NEVER


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## 535 (May 23, 2004)

some visual comparisons


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## 535 (May 23, 2004)

.


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## 535 (May 23, 2004)

again, just to make sure we are all in agreement. This is about the safetyof our friends & family and of course the turtles


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## Bigdaddy4360 (Jan 9, 2011)

*Whatever...*

That is too slow!!!! Never hit a turtle and always slow when i see them people just need to be reasonable!!!!!


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## Trouthappy (Jun 12, 2008)

They must be trying to cut back on visitors to the island, and this is one way. Anyway here's a loggerhead run over on Hatteras Island National Seashore. Guess they figure it might happen at Padre at some point.


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## 535 (May 23, 2004)

and thats a shame, but you can still buy pickled turtle eggs in beachside bars in Panama


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## reeltimer (Feb 5, 2010)

This is just the next step to get use off the beaches.Bunch of bs!


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## Marlingrinder (Mar 15, 2012)

jc said:


> http://parkplanning.nps.gov/document.cfm?documentID=46093
> 
> 15 mph speed limit from March 1 through Labor Day, permanent...
> 
> ...


I hate to burst your bubble but its the same on SPI so don't come here. Try Louisiana...


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## justletmein (Feb 11, 2006)

Muddskipper said:


> Actually it gives notice that people have been going to fast... And it's at the cost of the wildlife... And it was only a matter of time that someone was hurt....
> 
> Would you have rather them shut the beach down during the turtle season?
> 
> The balance of man and nature is tough... If those would have been responsible and slowed down in the first place we would not be seeing this regulation.


LMAO, yes because reducing the limit to 15 will make a difference to the ones who couldn't bring themselves to drive 25. That's like banning guns on a school campus, the ones who plan to go on a shooting spree don't really care if they're banned now do they? So punish the people who actually obey the speed limit by reducing it, great plan.


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## SurfRunner (May 22, 2004)

Muddskipper said:


> Actually it gives notice that people have been going to fast... And it's at the cost of the wildlife... And it was only a matter of time that someone was hurt....
> 
> Would you have rather them shut the beach down during the turtle season?
> 
> The balance of man and nature is tough... If those would have been responsible and slowed down in the first place we would not be seeing this regulation.


Look at all the miliage of highway in Texas......Wonder how much road kill you see in the road that you can count today.........A lots. How many people died in a wreck this past weekend? Should we lower speed limits on our Highways because of road kill and accidents? Why make such a big deal out of a little stretch of beach? Now, it will take all freakin day to get down the beach. I am not sure I want to go to PINS anymore, which is exactly the plan - to discourage traffic on the beach.


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## SurfRunner (May 22, 2004)

Trouthappy said:


> They must be trying to cut back on visitors to the island, and this is one way. Anyway here's a loggerhead run over on Hatteras Island National Seashore. Guess they figure it might happen at Padre at some point.


Not being harsh or uncaring, but so what if it happened once or twice? S**t happens. And no matter what we try do to prevent it, s**t will still happen.


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## 535 (May 23, 2004)

Marlingrinder said:


> I hate to burst your bubble but its the same on SPI so don't come here. Try Louisiana...


News to me, can you source that?


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## mullethead00 (May 31, 2010)

Awesome thread. Apparently Surfside Beach isn't any safer, had a drive by shooting last weekend.

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=8613495

Lower speed limit will limit beach traffic further south, but likely to make the near beach more crowded.


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## Marlingrinder (Mar 15, 2012)

jc said:


> News to me, can you source that?


Born and raised there. I've gotten two speeding tickets up on the beach in my lifetime. It's 15mph even 20 miles up on an empty beach.


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## 535 (May 23, 2004)

Marlingrinder said:


> Born and raised there. I've gotten two speeding tickets up on the beach in my lifetime. It's 15mph even 20 miles up on an empty beach.


well thats good enough for me... and I agree with the 10mph speed limit on the southern end of SPI, that actually makes sense. If the people of Cameron & Willacy Counties think 15mph is a good speed limit then I can live with that also. Its generally a shorter and more crowded stretch of sand. But mainly it is the LOCAL population deciding on the limit.

However, I still think PINS is different. Mainly, the southern end is desolate even on a "crowded day". The seasonal speed limit reduction has had NO IMPACT on the safety of people or turtles. The feds ignored the alternatives of slower speeds near camps/people so on Feb. 28th I can still drive 25mph through your camp. Its very obvious special interest of the turtle huggers has driven this.

*Mission*
.textWrappedAroundImage { margin-bottom:15px; ** .floatingImage { width:150px; float:right; text-align:left; margin-left:15px; margin-bottom:8px; ** .floatingImage p { padding:0; margin: 0; ** .floatingImage p.credit { color: #aaa; font-size: 9px; text-transform: uppercase; ** .floatingImage p.caption { color: #668033; ** *The National Park Service preserves unimpaired the natural and cultural resources and values of the national park system for the enjoyment, education, and inspiration of this and future generations. The Park Service cooperates with partners to extend the benefits of natural and cultural resource conservation and outdoor recreation throughout this country and the world*

at no point does the NPS mission include creating animal sanctuaries... the nesting KEMPS are a minute fraction of the whole population, none have been killed on PINS and almost all of the reported vehicular accidents fom 2000 - 2010 occurred in the first 20 miles of the beach, where it is crowded... all 3-4 accidents per year

this doesn't make sense


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## weimtrainer (May 17, 2007)

Marlingrinder said:


> Born and raised there. I've gotten two speeding tickets up on the beach in my lifetime. It's 15mph even 20 miles up on an empty beach.


Fished PINS since 1976. Let's be real, there are alot of days that 15mph is too fast (especially in Winter) and a few that 50mph is too slow. Been camped 50 miles down the beach and not seen another person for days at a time (ahh nostalgia). Unfortunately, those days are gone. Bottom line, the beach conditions will dictate your speed more than any sign. I've only gotten one speeding ticket on the beach, 32 in a 25 just North of Malaquite. Went to see the judge in Kleberg County and he dismissed it, luckily he was fond of surf-fishing.

Use common sense, it's not as though you can't see another vehicle on the beach from miles away. When you see the other truck, or turtles, slow your *** down.


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## justletmein (Feb 11, 2006)

jc said:


> *The National Park Service preserves unimpaired the natural and cultural resources and values of the national park system for the enjoyment, education, and inspiration of this and future generations. The Park Service cooperates with partners to extend the benefits of natural and cultural resource conservation and outdoor recreation throughout this country and the world*
> 
> at no point does the NPS mission include creating animal sanctuaries... the nesting KEMPS are a minute fraction of the whole population, none have been killed on PINS and almost all of the reported vehicular accidents fom 2000 - 2010 occurred in the first 20 miles of the beach, where it is crowded... all 3-4 accidents per year
> 
> this doesn't make sense


That **** turtle isn't even native to this stretch of beach. But let's face it, there's probably more money and attention for the park from the turtle hugging environmentalists than there is from fishermen, which makes sense considering that usually in life when things don't make sense you start looking for the money.



weimtrainer said:


> Fished PINS since 1976. Let's be real, there are alot of days that 15mph is too fast (especially in Winter) and a few that 50mph is too slow. Been camped 50 miles down the beach and not seen another person for days at a time (ahh nostalgia). Unfortunately, those days are gone. Bottom line, the beach conditions will dictate your speed more than any sign. I've only gotten one speeding ticket on the beach, 32 in a 25 just North of Malaquite. Went to see the judge in Kleberg County and he dismissed it, luckily he was fond of surf-fishing.


Exactly, the conditions are what really matter.


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## Trouthappy (Jun 12, 2008)

Turtles like the dead one pictured are killed all the time by shrimpboats or just fast-moving boats. We saw a big loggerhead cut in half when we were on the big catamaran ferry that runs from Key West to Dry Tortugas National Park.


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## 535 (May 23, 2004)

US Fish and Wildlife has stated that if the Kemps on PINS were done away with it would have no significant impact on their survival/recovery


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## CDHknives (Mar 17, 2012)

IMO this is not about fish or turtles...this is one step closer to closing PINS to traffic. Just like so many other laws...regulate things to oblivion instead of outright bans.


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## SurfRunner (May 22, 2004)

CDHknives said:


> IMO this is not about fish or turtles...this is one step closer to closing PINS to traffic. Just like so many other laws...regulate things to oblivion instead of outright bans.


You are exactly right!


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## ZenDaddy (May 22, 2004)

jc said:


> US Fish and Wildlife has stated that if the Kemps on PINS were done away with it would have no significant impact on their survival/recovery


Hey, what's the source for this?

Also, I've read they are NOT native to Texas Beaches before ... but can't recall the source.

Can you provide?


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## TrueblueTexican (Aug 29, 2005)

*YA pays ya money*

BFD - so go slower and keep lidar detectors in case you need to go faster - its IDIOTS that can't seem to USE common sense these days that get the new laws forced on those of us who do -

Heck you just MIGHT see something you ordinarily wouldn't going 50MPH, never was about turtles anyway - it was about idiots that think they are on the gulf freeway pavement and not on sand.

It probably wont take me any longer to get past big shell than normal, and I may even have to see a judge every now and then -- give unto Caesar

I look for it to make fishing even better past MM21.


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## justletmein (Feb 11, 2006)

ZenDaddy said:


> Hey, what's the source for this?
> 
> Also, I've read they are NOT native to Texas Beaches before ... but can't recall the source.
> 
> Can you provide?


Might be native to South island, but definitely an invasive species to North side. They were transplanted there by people. In Mexico they dig up the eggs and eat them, we spend millions to transplant them to a beach they are not native to and then dig up the eggs and incubate them.


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## justletmein (Feb 11, 2006)

TrueblueTexican said:


> BFD - so go slower and keep lidar detectors in case you need to go faster - its IDIOTS that can't seem to USE common sense these days that get the new laws forced on those of us who do -
> 
> Heck you just MIGHT see something you ordinarily wouldn't going 50MPH, never was about turtles anyway - it was about idiots that think they are on the gulf freeway pavement and not on sand.
> 
> ...


I really hope you're right that it'll weed out traffic further South, but I doubt it will. The peeps running 50 are already breaking the 25 limit so they're not going to care about breaking 15 either. Again all this does is screw with the people who obey the limit to begin with, the others will continue doing what they do.

For the record I have no objections to anyone running 50 on a nekkid stretch of beach where nobody else is around. When you come up on camps or trucks, slow your arse down.


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## SurfRunner (May 22, 2004)

Hey JC! You and I agree on something my friend! :cheers:


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## 535 (May 23, 2004)

ZenDaddy said:


> Hey, what's the source for this?
> 
> Can you provide?


dawn whitehead of us fish and wildlife, I paraphrased

http://www.cacrights.org/docs/EA ResponseFinal.pdf


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## 535 (May 23, 2004)

At such meeting, in response to questions by CAC and Johnny French on the need for an EA or an EIS on the Park's turtle recovery program taking into account the worldwide turtle recovery program and turtle population, Dawn Whitehead with the FWS stated (as recorded on page 10 of such Meeting Notes) "*that it would be possible to lose all of the turtles on Padre Island and that the species would still not be in jeopardy*".


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## Steelersfan (May 21, 2004)

Just look at Hatteras and the Outer Banks as a whole. It is/was never about safety for people or nature. The only objective is for total closures, just like they have in NC. Give 'em an inch, they soon try for a mile.


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## NightTrain (May 21, 2004)

Steelersfan-I warned JC and these guys way back, some time ago,that this was coming(and believe me,they ain't through).I fish Hatteras and it ain't about the birds or turtles...JC said I was wrong,so,I butted out...fight for it ,now, guys,soon, it will be too late.


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## 535 (May 23, 2004)

They had ya'll dead in the water with the science, so it made sense to me even though I didn't like the outcome

With the way things are headed here, you may be right

Time will tell but its not looking good


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