# LEO quesiton: son pulled over



## Bruce J (Jun 27, 2004)

My son was coming home from Baylor today and got pulled over just outside of College Station. The officer told him he was stopped for going 5mph over the limit. Must have been a slow day.

They then asked him to get out and they started giving him a sobriety test. Then he had to stick out his tongue and they asked him why it had a certain color in it, and he said he had no idea.

They then asked if they could inspect his vehicle for drugs. He agreed since he knew he didn't have any. They asked him if he knew whether anyone dealing with drugs had been in his car in the past two weeks, and he said no.

They went through the car in great detail and then even called in a K-9 unit and had the dog go through the car. All clean. They finally thanked him for his cooperation and let him get on the road home.

Questions:
1. Does this seem highly unusual for a clean cut kid with no evidence of doing anything other than driving 5mph over the limit? He has absolutely no record and never even had a speeding ticket.

2. Did he do the right thing by agreeing to the search. He knew there was nothing to hide, but who knows if someone might have left something? What are our rights in agreeing/denying search? Don't they need some sort of reason to request a search?

They kept him on the side of the road for about 30 minutes while doing all this with no apparent justification other than the minor speed infraction. It just has me stirred up a bit and wonder if anyone else finds this unusual behavior by the LEOs?. I'm just glad my son stayed calm and polite and they eventually let him go on his way.


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## Team S.A. Blue (Sep 8, 2004)

*stopped*

I'm glad your son stayed calm and polite. Thats what he should do when stopped by police.
If your son had nothing to hide then he did the right thing. If he would have refused the search they still would have called the dog and walked the dog around the veh. If the dog gets a hit then they have proable cause to search.
Your son could have said "no you cant search" but what good would that really do.
Most police who stop over 5mph are looking for other violations like drugs etc. I'm not saying all are that way. good luck and be safe.


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## Free_loader (Nov 4, 2004)

if they pulled him over for 5mph they planned to search his car before they even looked at him ... his car is probably similar to someone else they are looking for, or have seen somewhere suspicious. 

If he didn't mind the search then i guess no harm no foul.

I on the other hand would not have let them search my vehicle... I'm not a follower of "nothing to hide" mentality ... I enjoy every right guaranteed to me by my constitution and i don't give them up for convenience


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## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

if you ask me, it's cops overstepping their bounds. welcome to the coming police state.


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## NewbieFisher (Jun 3, 2009)

can you imagine if this happened to a man of color???
QX and Rev Jesse would have a field day. '
But it happened to an honest hard working caucasion, and it has probable cause because.......?????????????


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## Cru (May 24, 2004)

If he asked me to search my truck, I would have politely told him "no, sir" and asked him if I was free to go. I am positive there is nothing in my truck that would be of interest to a cop, I just don't care to be detained while they rifle through my vehicle on a witch hunt.


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## deke (Oct 5, 2004)

That is just a dog and pony show, no pun intended, they are going to search your car no matter what the dog does. They will just lie to you and say the dog hit on something, how do you know if it did or didn't? And IMO 5mph over is BS, they use that like they use the not signaling, or crossing the line **** to pull you over and search your car. so much for the 4th amendment, unfortunately many police officers could care less about your rights.
Glad your son kept his head and didn't tell him take a flying leap,lol.


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## chapman53559 (Jun 19, 2009)

They profiled his vehicle. My mom has had a similar experience driving a black Magnum. They didn't end up searching the car though.


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## TripleGrip (Oct 18, 2007)

if they are going to hold me up for no reason other then they can then Im going to make them call for a dog for no other reason then I can.


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## fwoodwader (Jul 18, 2008)

If they want to search the car kindly tell them they will need a search warrant and they don't have consent to search the car and that you would glady sign the violation and be on their way.


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## OUTDOORSTXN (Feb 11, 2009)

*Police state*

MASTERCYLINDER

X2


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## SURF Buster (Feb 17, 2008)

He did the right thing,the police were doing their job.


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## deke (Oct 5, 2004)

SURF Buster said:


> He did the right thing,the police were doing their job.


Searching his car with no probable cause just because they wanted to is NOT just doing their job.


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## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

SURF Buster said:


> He did the right thing,the police were doing their job.


their job is to hassle people without probable cause? bull__.


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

Slow day and they were on a power trip. Like MC says police state is on its way when decent people are subjected to justifiable, bt the letter of the law the way they interpretate it, harrassment. This is just one more reason the younger generation lacks respect for the law. They are profiled and harrassed. Sad days ahead.


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## frank n texas (Aug 11, 2004)

What dept pulled him over?

What was he driving?

I experienced the exact same situation driving my 1970 bright red Mustang Mach I fastback by the new Hersey Highway Patrol...When I asked him why he pulled me over he stated the car, the Texas plate cause all Texans come thru his state with drugs....:rotfl:..Full search inside car and trunk and my luggage...

Papers please!


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## Blk Jck 224 (Oct 16, 2009)

[QUOTE=Bruce J;2674978 Then he had to stick out his tongue and they asked him why it had a certain color in it. 

Sorie Ossifer...I just left your Sister's house...BURP! :cheers:


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## BMTAngler (Aug 17, 2008)

I have heard of this happening also, and Im not really fond of the LEO over here in my neck of the woods. Now I have family and friends in LE but what makes me mad is the ones that over stepping boundaries. Ive seen numerous times riding down the highway when a cop goes flying past me (I usually do 5 over the limit) they are at least doing 80-85 with no lights on and if someone is in the left lane they flick there lights on to make them move over and continue speeding away with there lights off.

Ive also seen cops flick there lights on to run through red lights and then turn them off after passing through like nothing has happened. Im waiting till I get a good look at the car numbers and turning them in because its not right in my eyes and most people I talk to agree.

Not all cops do this just a small portion of them so dont take my comment to heart if you are a LEO


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## carryyourbooks (Feb 13, 2009)

so going 5 mph over is ok? is it ok to run a red light if it was orange? 5 mph over the limit is speeding no matter how you look at it. my elderly neighbor once got a ticket years ago for going 1 mph over. you don't want a ticket? don't break the law! you would think that i am a leo, but i am not. i just believe that laws (most of them) are put in place to protect us. whether or not we believe that they are justified does not give us permission to break them.

just sayin'.



deke said:


> That is just a dog and pony show, no pun intended, they are going to search your car no matter what the dog does. They will just lie to you and say the dog hit on something, how do you know if it did or didn't? And IMO 5mph over is BS, they use that like they use the not signaling, or crossing the line **** to pull you over and search your car. so much for the 4th amendment, unfortunately many police officers could care less about your rights.
> Glad your son kept his head and didn't tell him take a flying leap,lol.


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## fwoodwader (Jul 18, 2008)

BMTAngler said:


> I have heard of this happening also, and Im not really fond of the LEO over here in my neck of the woods. Now I have family and friends in LE but what makes me mad is the ones that over stepping boundaries. Ive seen numerous times riding down the highway when a cop goes flying past me (I usually do 5 over the limit) they are at least doing 80-85 with no lights on and if someone is in the left lane they flick there lights on to make them move over and continue speeding away with there lights off.
> 
> Ive also seen cops flick there lights on to run through red lights and then turn them off after passing through like nothing has happened. Im waiting till I get a good look at the car numbers and turning them in because its not right in my eyes and most people I talk to agree.
> 
> Not all cops do this just a small portion of them so dont take my comment to heart if you are a LEO


I've seen more than a few Harris County Sheriffs do this in Galveston County I guess when going to work in the morning. I remember a few years back I was setting at a red light and this HCS cruiser came flying up to the intersection probably going 55, hit the lights and just went right through the intersection early in the morning. Barely touched the brakes.


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## mchildress (Jul 11, 2009)

Sounds like they were looking for someone else and after checking your son out they said thanks and were on their way.


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## Gethookedadventures (Jan 1, 2007)

deke said:


> Searching his car with no probable cause just because they wanted to is NOT just doing their job.


He gave consent to search no PC needed. Sounds like they had a tip on a vehicle that was probably supposed to be hauling drugs and his sons vehicle matched it. THAT IS HOW THOUSANDS OF POUNDS OF DRUGS ARE TAKING OFF OF OUR STREETS EVERYDAY.

Personally I am getting sick of all the LEO bashing that happens on this website.


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## Cartman (Jun 18, 2008)

I sometimes listen to a scanner and 80% of the time they use the 'suspicious vehicle' excuse to pull people over. I don't get how driving down the road is suspicious.


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## gravedigger (Sep 19, 2009)

*galveston cops*



BMTAngler said:


> I have heard of this happening also, and Im not really fond of the LEO over here in my neck of the woods. Now I have family and friends in LE but what makes me mad is the ones that over stepping boundaries. Ive seen numerous times riding down the highway when a cop goes flying past me (I usually do 5 over the limit) they are at least doing 80-85 with no lights on and if someone is in the left lane they flick there lights on to make them move over and continue speeding away with there lights off.
> 
> Ive also seen cops flick there lights on to run through red lights and then turn them off after passing through like nothing has happened. Im waiting till I get a good look at the car numbers and turning them in because its not right in my eyes and most people I talk to agree.
> 
> Not all cops do this just a small portion of them so dont take my comment to heart if you are a LEO


i am not exaggerating to say that i see galveston cops run stop signs, red lights, speed WAY over the speed limit on a regular basis with no emergency equipment activated. no lights, no sirens. nothing. on a very regular basis. i am disappointed in police force here.


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## ripleyb (Mar 20, 2006)

deke said:


> Searching his car with no probable cause just because they wanted to is NOT just doing their job.


They had probable cause. His tongue was green. Same color as mary jane. Are you a pothead Focker? :rotfl:


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## Specks&Spots (Aug 26, 2007)

carryyourbooks said:


> so going 5 mph over is ok? 5 mph over the limit is speeding no matter how you look at it. you don't want a ticket? don't break the law!


I don't believe the speeding ticket was the main issue.


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## deke (Oct 5, 2004)

ripleyb said:


> They had probable cause. His tongue was green. Same color as mary jane. Are you a pothead Focker? :rotfl:


LOL, green tongue, thanks that made me laugh.

"He gave consent to search no PC needed."
True, but I understand that, but why would they ask?I guess that is my issue. Lets face it. consent or not that officer was going to search that car.

"so going 5 mph over is ok? is it ok to run a red light if it was orange? 5 mph over the limit is speeding no matter how you look at it. my elderly neighbor once got a ticket years ago for going 1 mph over. you don't want a ticket? don't break the law! you would think that i am a leo, but i am not. i just believe that laws (most of them) are put in place to protect us. whether or not we believe that they are justified does not give us permission to break them."

Awww, the first sighting of the morality/ethics police, close cousin to the jr. game warden,lol. And IMO 5 mph over is a ridiculous amount to pull someone over. Unless you have an ulterior motive, like searching the vehicle, then that is just a reason for them to pull you over and search. But since you never ever go past the legal speed limit at any time you shouldn't have to worry about it,lol. And if the officer would just say" we are looking for a car like yours because_____" then Ok that would at least be a reason and not just a random search. Whether it would be true or not is another story, but at least it would make me feel better,lol.


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## TripleGrip (Oct 18, 2007)

also get ready for the tickets for 5 miles ph.last night on the news they said police were going to start writing tickets for under 10mph because of the economy.


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## Kenner21 (Aug 25, 2005)

carryyourbooks said:


> so going 5 mph over is ok? is it ok to run a red light if it was orange? 5 mph over the limit is speeding no matter how you look at it. my elderly neighbor once got a ticket years ago for going 1 mph over. you don't want a ticket? don't break the law! you would think that i am a leo, but i am not. i just believe that laws (most of them) are put in place to protect us. whether or not we believe that they are justified does not give us permission to break them.
> 
> just sayin'.


I bet the federal government wishes everyone thought like you, surely all of these laws are for our own good and not to collect fines. BAAAAAhhhh BBahhhhhh Just Sayin


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## C.Hern5972 (Jul 17, 2009)

right now they are doing a no refusal in that area. they are pulling everyone over


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## roundman (May 21, 2004)

friend of mine coming into houston on a plane from colorado said when they got off they pulled a guy off to the side for no apparent reason and started searching through his stuff and him and harrasing him , my friend started yelling at them , and asking why they were messing with someone that did nothing wrong, then just told the guy to go on his way, after they rifled through his stuff and him. guess he's lucky they didnt arrest him for interfering but glad he stood up to this kinda stuff.


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## Bruce J (Jun 27, 2004)

Thanks for the replies, most of which confirmed what I was thinking. If they were upset that he was going 5mph over, then give him a ticket and move on to someone else.

I considered that he might have matched someone else's profile. The car is just a gray Mazda 3, nothing fancy at all, but maybe it matched some bad guy's. However, after checking his ID and clean record, I'd think they could spare him the full search and scare tactics. I think these guys were more on a power trip, but I'm glad that they finally realized they would have to look elsewhere.

I haven't asked him yet whether it was local or state deputies, but it was just outside of College Station, I believe on the north side on Hwy 6.


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## ol' salt (Jun 11, 2006)

Like someone else stated, it appears they were looking for a vehicle like his for drug dealings. I am always polite to police officers, and find them to be polite also. I have never even smoked a cigarette in my life; much less taken illegal drugs. But, I don't like the idea of a drug test without asking his permission (you don't have to submit to one), and putting a dog in his car is extreme unless they had pre-knowledge or a tip that his car, or a car like his, was carrying drugs.

INteresting scenario.


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## boom! (Jul 10, 2004)

^^^^^^^^^ heres a suggestion. I'm sure that it will work the same in a car. :rotfl:


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## Bevo&Pevo (Jul 22, 2008)

I would have agreed to a search only if I had an attorney present of my choosing. No, I don't do drugs but I am suspicious of most LEO's. Without credible witnesses the officer could have planted some dope. Maybe the guy is trying to make a name for himself. Then what? I think it's borderline harassment. Then again maybe he was looking for some leftover doughnuts. B&P


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## boom! (Jul 10, 2004)

^^^^ here's one from a car. Let me know how these work out if anyone tries them!


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## roundman (May 21, 2004)

boomgoon said:


> ^^^^ here's one from a car. Let me know how these work out if anyone tries them!


 i know if i tried that i would be here>>>>


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## boom! (Jul 10, 2004)

roundman said:


> i know if i tried that i would be here>>>>


Newsflash............Darrell is dead. :rotfl:


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## "The Marshall" (Jan 12, 2005)

Kenner21 said:


> I bet the federal government wishes everyone thought like you, surely all of these laws are for our own good and not to collect fines. BAAAAAhhhh BBahhhhhh Just Sayin


LOL..absolutely amazing isn't it.. what flavor koolaid are we drinking nowadays???


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## rwg (Dec 30, 2009)

*Same thing happened to me*

When in college got pulled over by state trouper on highway just outside of CS. Out of truck then inspection sticker was past due by 3 days (ticket). But once out of truck the officer thinks that I had a stem of weed in the truck. This was during the middle of Hunting Season. I told the officer that I did not smoke weed never had and that there was none in my truck. Then he yells at me to come over and explain what "this" was. I looked down and in my dirty truck (college kid) there is a small stem of goat weed grass in the back crevis of my seat. So I told him. Then let him search the truck (knew I had nothing to worry about and did not want him calling in for more support to make it a bigger deal). The gloves and kit come out. Straight to the "stem" with the pliers. sniff sniff...toss it out onto the road. Then I think well that is that. Nope full search of the truck...30 min later no drugs. Then lecture time.... about going 5 miles over the speed limit and not having on a coat because it was cold outside (it was not cold in my truck). So leave with a ticket for my inspection sticker.

No big deal b/c can usually get that dropped with proof of inspection since it was only out by three days. But the trouper sends my ticket to a different court then what he circled on my ticket...long story but three weeks later get a warrant in the mail for my arrest from mystery court. Everything gets dropped and just pay the fine and go on my way.

Yeah I was ****** but hey I would rather have them be a little over the top then not. Someone needs to get rid of all these drug smugglers coming across the border..maybe I was the clean cut white kid that would lead them to a supplier....

Just saying they have a tough job and wish there were more on the streets.


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## Barefoot (Feb 8, 2009)

I was driving between College Station and Navasota a few times yesterday and saw four DPS officers working Highway 6. Each officer had a different type of car pulled over.

Everyone drive the speed limit through the area and no refusal weekend starts today!


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## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

> if you ask me, it's cops overstepping their bounds. welcome to the coming police state.


Dang it...I agree with MC and there's something just wrong about that.

Quick...someone post a dead snake picture so I can read his rants!



TH


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## mike1970lee (Jan 19, 2009)

If he would have been on I-10 he would have been stopped for going to slow


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## bill (May 21, 2004)

why the questions about his tongue?


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## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

Gethookedadventures said:


> He gave consent to search no PC needed.


this is why a mvo should never give consent to a vehicle search.



> Personally I am getting sick of all the LEO bashing that happens on this website.


if cops wouldn't pull stunts like this that, in my opinion, violate the rights of otherwise law-abiding citizens, people wouldn't be "leo bashing."

most cops i've ever encountered were polite, respectful and very decent people just out doing their job, but we all know that there are a minority of cops out there who think they _*are*_ the law instead of _*enforcers*_ of the law.

people in this thread aren't cop bashing. they are demonstrating their opposition to events like this that most of the public feel should never happen.


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## Barnacle Bill (May 21, 2004)

I agree that it was a pre-text traffic stop, meaning they planned to pull him over from the git-go. Perhaps he left a place the cops had been watching.

As far as searching, call in the dog. I wouldn't give them permission if I didn't have anything to hide. Having been a police officer for years, I'm well aware of my rights and the conditions under which law enforcement may search my vehicle and I'm NOT giving anyone permission to stick their grubby hands all over my truck looking for phantom drugs. If you want to call in the dog, go ahead, but he ain't getting in my truck unless he hits on something, and he won't.


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## Blk Jck 224 (Oct 16, 2009)

If you don't show your tongue, you might get elected President.


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## 100% Texan (Jan 30, 2005)

Never consent to a search of your vehicle that comes straight from the po-po I know when asked politefully say no.


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## five.0 fisher (Jan 9, 2005)

First off let me say that I do not agree with stopping someone for only 5mph over the speed limit. I am very generous before I pull someone over. 
Next, I am not making an assumption about your son or the officer that pulled him over. I will base my opinion on my experiences from 17 years and counting of Law Enforcement.
If I asked someone for consent to search I have a good reason for doing so, here are a few examples of those reasons: odor of burnt marihuana ( this is a very distinct odor and one that does not go away for a long time), signs of narcotic paraphernalia in plain sight, inconsistent stories about where the subject is going, coming from, etc..
The tongue thing comes from DRE's (Drug Recognition Experts), it is widely known that when a person has smoked marihuana in the last few hours the middle of their tongue will have a distinct green tint. Yes, there are other drinks, candy, and food that we injest that will also cause a green tongue but usually the marihuana tint is distinguishable from the others. 

I am not stating that all Police Officers are good and above reproach but some of the post before this one are alarming to me.
Most agencies now have very high tech audio and video equipment and most agencies have policies mandating that all interactions with violators and suspects be recorded. A K9 will have a very documented "hit", the hit or alert will be consistent and is part of the K9 and handlers extensive training. I do not thing there are many Officers that would say there dog "hit" on a car if it clearly did not "hit" on a car.
Believe it or not, we are under more scrutiny than you can imagine. The Federal Government has implemented so many "protections" under the umbrella of racial profiling that reaches far beyond racial profiling and some of these restrictions limit good police work.
I could go on and on about this but I wont. 
I can honestly say that in my patrol vehicle as well as in my POV, I never go faster than I would allow another citizen to go. What I mean by that is that I have a generous number over the limit before I will stop a car and I never go above that number unless I am running a priority call. 
Lastly, some calls that we run call for running silent, This means without sirens and sometimes without lights. The reasons for silent calls are many but the main idea is to avoid alerting the burglar, robber, thief, or subject committing an assault that we are coming. Take that into consideration the next time you see an officer driving fast or bust a red light.
By all means I encourage you to call the agency and complain if you see an officer driving dangerously. As a supervisor for my agency, I want to know if one of my officers is shining a negative light on the entire agency by their actions. 
I know this was a long rant but it just alarms me the complete lack of trust that some people have in Law Enforcement. I say lack of trust instead of respect because respect is earned. I can honestly say that I freely give respect to each and every person that I deal with as a police officer. 
None of us are looking for a "thank you" or anything from citizens, that is not why we do this job. Us good ones know at the end of the day when we hang our gun belts up in the closet that we did the best we could for the community we are sworn to protect and serve. That is thanks enough for those of us in this profession.


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## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

Thanks for what yall do five-0. 





when I was in college I was working part time for a plumber. I was headed to class and got stopped in Huntington. The cop came up and asked for all the normal stuff. I was getting my insurance out when he changed his tone. Got my info and asked me to step out of the vehical. 

Once out of the vehical he told me he was going to search my truck. He tore my truck up one side and down the other. All my **** was out on the highway, and he was pulling on pannels and such to see if any of them were loose or out of place. 

Other cops came, they started to help him, and then a dog came and they must have walked around my truck 15 times. This went on for over an hour, by this time I was sitting down, late for class. The cop that stopped me came over and started to ask all kind of questions. I finally got mad and asked him what the hell this was all about. He showed me what he thought was a "crack pipe". I fell out laughing, he had spotted a plumbing fitting for a hand held shower that I was going to pick up from the parts house after class while I was in town. 

Him and his buddies got a good laugh out of it, helped me put all my **** back into my truck. Then gave me an escort as far as they could at a high rate of speed so I could try to make class.


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## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

excellent post, five.0 fisher. you are obviously like most of the cops i've ever encountered - intelligent, courteous, professional and conscientious. thanks for serving your community in a job that i know can often be difficult and dangerous.

we have a number of good cops like you that frequent this site.



five.0 fisher said:


> I know this was a long rant but it just alarms me the complete lack of trust that some people have in Law Enforcement. I say lack of trust instead of respect because respect is earned. I can honestly say that I freely give respect to each and every person that I deal with as a police officer.


unfortunately, it's a case of the proverbial few bad apples spoiling the whole bushel. cops that do stuff like the above undermine the public's trust of cops in general.



> Believe it or not, we are under more scrutiny than you can imagine. The Federal Government has implemented so many "protections" under the umbrella of racial profiling that reaches far beyond racial profiling and some of these restrictions limit good police work. I could go on and on about this but I wont.


personally, i'd like to hear your opinions on profiling, but it's probably a subject better suited for the jungle. i, for one, don't think profiling is necessarily such a bad thing.


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## Puma (Jun 16, 2009)

five.0 fisher said:


> First off let me say that I do not agree with stopping someone for only 5mph over the speed limit. I am very generous before I pull someone over.
> Next, I am not making an assumption about your son or the officer that pulled him over. I will base my opinion on my experiences from 17 years and counting of Law Enforcement.
> If I asked someone for consent to search I have a good reason for doing so, here are a few examples of those reasons: odor of burnt marihuana ( this is a very distinct odor and one that does not go away for a long time), signs of narcotic paraphernalia in plain sight, inconsistent stories about where the subject is going, coming from, etc..
> The tongue thing comes from DRE's (Drug Recognition Experts), it is widely known that when a person has smoked marihuana in the last few hours the middle of their tongue will have a distinct green tint. Yes, there are other drinks, candy, and food that we injest that will also cause a green tongue but usually the marihuana tint is distinguishable from the others.
> ...


Thanks for your post. It is obvious why you are a supervisor!

However, I have been subject to over eager law enforcement as well as very fair ones too.

I think this topic touches differenent people in different ways. Some people take offense to aggressive cops and some don't. Me, I take real offense to it. On a recent fishing trip to Mansfield we were checked by the game wardens twice in one day. The first two were nice and asked to see whatever. We showed it to them and they left. No harm. The second two drove right up beside us and one of them jumped over into our boat. The other one asked to see stuff. The one on the boat started nosing through stuff. I was ******!

Funny thing is, my buddies didn't feel the same way I did. They saw no wrong. I did! That game warden had NO reason to snoop all through our stuff. NO REASON AT ALL! But what I realized is people seem to take these situations differently!

I personally feel that if they want to know what we have in required safety stuff, by all means ask respectfully. But, don't go jumpin on my boat!


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## boom! (Jul 10, 2004)

If a cop ask you if you have had anyone with drugs in your car just reply "not as many as you have".


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## MrG (Apr 10, 2005)

United States Constitution said:


> 4th amendment--" The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, *and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause*, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. "


Seems to me probable cause is to obtain a warrant, not to justify an unwarranted search.


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## Won Hunglo (Apr 24, 2007)

five.0 fisher said:


> I know this was a long rant but it just alarms me the complete lack of trust that some people have in Law Enforcement.


Could cops like this could be the reason for lack of trust? Opps. He forgot to destroy that citizens traffic cam like he did his own that night.


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## Yams (Jul 16, 2008)

When i was a teen in Schertz, this used to happen to me all the time. This was back in the mid 90s. I was routinely pulled over, and almost always searched, tested, patted down etc...never did they find anything. 

I always just attributed it to Schertz Police not having much else to do.


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## Barnacle Bill (May 21, 2004)

When I first became a cop in the early 90's, there were 100,000+ police officers, sherrif's deputies, constables, etc in the USA. 

There is no way you can have that many people in a job and not have some bad eggs. The best defense to a bad cop is to know the law. I'm not talking about the law you get from some jailhouse lawyer who "knows his rights" as it were. I'm talking about KNOWING the law, reading up on it, etc. I get Supreme court updates and rulings still to this day via email so I can keep up with what is going on. 

As I said, I'm not letting anyone, including a police officer, search my vehicle just because he wants to or because he's bored or because he's training a rookie. Be polite and be firm, that is all it takes. If they get pushy, just ask them if they're attempting to coerce you into a search. Just know your rights but don't go a hootin' and a hollerin' like some hippie lunatic out there. When I was a cop, I usually found the ones that protested the loudest were the ones that DID have something to hide.


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## Won Hunglo (Apr 24, 2007)

Keep in mind, the cop could have just went to the potty and they were out of TP so he used the Constitution to wipe on.

Seriously, file an opens records request for every video tape of every cruiser of that agency during that time frame, any officer notes pertaining to the traffic stop & the radio traffic recordings an hour before, during & after the traffic stop. You will find out what really went on.


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## seattleman1969 (Jul 17, 2008)

mastercylinder said:


> if you ask me, it's cops overstepping their bounds. welcome to the coming police state.


Exactly. Know your rights and exercise them. It's becoming more and more obvious that police either do not receive adequate training regarding personal rights or they just don't care.

Knowing your rights is half the battle.

Free loader, it's not about having something to hide, it's about someone invading your rights or property without warrant.

5 MPH over the speed limit with no other indicators is NOT probable cause for a search of the vehicle OR requesting an FSB.

I am pretty sure the legal beagles around here would agree.

Say what you will but I would have respectfully and politely refused the requests despite never having anything to hide.


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## drfishalot (Sep 9, 2004)

when I set my cruise at 5-7 mph over the limit, I realize I am speeding and expect/hope I can get away with it-- but realize that I may not. I know there aren't any cheap tickets anymore- those good ole days are gone. so if I get pulled over no use being a jerk cause I am in the wrong. now if they want to search- my response will depend on how much of a hurry I am in, cause they will prob do whatever they want to do. they won't find anything, will just waste resources, waste my time and theirs- but there is only one way to confirm that my truck is clean 

If I am thinking I might try to "deal" with them, i.e. "I will let you search my truck if you don't cite me for speeding if its clean." never tried that before and never needed to but if your gonna give something up (let them search) maybe you can get something out of the negotiation (no expensive ticket). Or maybe let them search if they quit in ten minutes if they haven't found anything yet. If they agree then you aren't tied up for 30 minutes anyway. If they aren't in a dealing mood I would prob let them search cause by then they are gonna do it anyway I bet. And if they then ticketted me for speeding after searching my clean truck- I would NICELY tell them what I thought about my experience with them that day.
I always wonder how they make all the narc busts that make the newspapers. I think it is a good thing to keep bad things and bad people off the street. I general I dont have a prob with it.


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## Barnacle Bill (May 21, 2004)

There is a defense to speeding.. Well, there was when I was a cop. If you were on a freeway and everyone was going 80 mph, you could argue in court that you were "keeping up with the constant flow of traffic". I saw several tickets dismissed that way.


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## Levelwind (Apr 15, 2005)

Bevo&Pevo said:


> I would have agreed to a search only if I had an attorney present of my choosing. No, I don't do drugs but I am suspicious of most LEO's. *Without credible witnesses the officer could have planted some dope.* Maybe the guy is trying to make a name for himself. Then what? I think it's borderline harassment. Then again maybe he was looking for some leftover doughnuts. B&P


That's a good enough reason right there. A good many cops have seen Dirty Harry too many times and will do a lot of wrong stuff if they think they're justified (i.e., you're a bad guy).


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## Wedge (Apr 29, 2005)

*How do you know the person that stopped you actually is commissioned*

Ask for their credentials. Then politely decide to consent or not to consent but don't hassle the officer. He/She is doing the job they were hire to do. There is so much room for improvement in national security that I really believe that although we have rights (the right to invoke our rights and freedoms) we should support our LEO's in as much as possible.


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## five.0 fisher (Jan 9, 2005)

Levelwind said:


> That's a good enough reason right there. A good many cops have seen Dirty Harry too many times and will do a lot of wrong stuff if they think they're justified (i.e., you're a bad guy).


Seriously? You really think that "many" cops would do this? I can promise you that if we cant get the bad guy this time, we will get him the next. I am not going to prison for any reason, including trying to make an arrest. I have never met an officer in my 17 years of Law Enforcement that has this low of morals. I am not dumb enough to say it never happens anywhere in the United States, but I am confident that it is very isolated and not "many" as you say. 
In Texas, all agencies are governed by TCLEOSE, which sets strict standards for Law Enforcement Professionals. In addition to those guidleines, most agencies set even stricter qualifications, background investigations, applicant screenings, psych evaluations, etc., to weed out the bad apples before they ever pin on the badge. This does not catch all the bad apples and some become bad apples after they pin on the badge but that is the exception and diffinately not the rule or the norm. 
Yes, there are overzealous officers out there. They are usually the "rookies" who are still a little wet behind the ears and feel like they have something to prove. In my experience, these rookies might be more strict in their enforcement of the law than I am, but in time they usually learn to tell the difference between Joe Q the citizen and Joe $#%^ the terd and adapt thier overzealous enforcement over time. I can assure you that each agency that I come in contact with and work with would never tolerate "fabrication or planting of evidence" in any officer and it would be grounds for immediate termination and prosecution if such actions were ever taken. 
There are bad examples of every profession out there it does'nt mean the entire profession is bad.


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## LandPirate (Jun 5, 2009)

*Questions:*
*1. Does this seem highly unusual for a clean cut kid with no evidence of doing anything other than driving 5mph over the limit? He has absolutely no record and never even had a speeding ticket.*

*2. Did he do the right thing by agreeing to the search. He knew there was nothing to hide, but who knows if someone might have left something? What are our rights in agreeing/denying search? Don't they need some sort of reason to request a search?*

1) Yes, this does seem out of the ordinary. Possibly a rookie cop that hasn't figured it out yet. I wouldn't go to that trouble unless I had something more to go on.

2) You have the right to deny a search when asked. There is nothing improper about an officer asking to conduct a search. Although most cops I know don't make a habit of it unless I have more to go on. Police are not required to have a reason to ask to search. That said, they shouldn't make it part of their routine.

Now, is it possible that your son has been hanging out with some "less than desirable" type people? People that might be under surveillence for some impropreties? If so, and your son and his vehicle were seen with these people, it's possible that the serveying officers requested a stop of your son to check him out. Happens all the time.

Prime example: A vehicle is seen leaving a known drug dealer's house. Surveillence team radios a patrol with a description and asks that the car be stopped.

Why is this done? The officers investigating the drug dealer are trying to catch customers leaving the house with product so that they can get a search warrant for the drug dealer's home. The customer is not the target, but a stepping stone to the intended target.

This is what's known as a "Pretext Stop" and has been upheld by the US Supreme Court as a legal tool by law enforcement.


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## 2slick (Dec 5, 2008)

Don't suppose you didn't get the whole story from the kid, huh? Not saying a clean cut kid will lie, but having raised a couple, they sometimes leave out part of the story.

No PC, no search of my vehicle. I've known good cops, bad cops. Some I would trust my life to, others I believe would plant evidence on you to get their name in the paper. I knew a DPS officer up in East TX, he made more drug arrests than anyone else; he was an alcoholic. Had him pass me in his Vette doing at least 85 making a beer run. I think they finally got rid of him, or either put him behind a desk somewhere. Several cops back home were high school buddies of my oldest son. I don't see how some of them ever got there with some of the chit I know they pulled back then.

I don't believe it is LEO bashing to enforce your rights. Of course, I'm the same old guy who thinks he doesn't need a Game Warden holding his hand either!


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## frank n texas (Aug 11, 2004)

Wonder what all we would be posting if this officer had found a huge number of reels or guns in the trunk that had just been stolen from a home in the area where a gray Mazda had been seen leaving the scene?

Here is another question...If the posted speed is 65 and you are stopped for doing 70 you feel you should be given a pass right? 

Applying that logic to fishing then if the flounder limit is say 5 fish and I am caught with 6, I should be a given a pass on the one extra fish too right...

That would mean we should expect or have applied a +/- number to all of our laws...

Disclaimer: I do speed but do not ever exceed limits on fish...

Some of you all post some really funny stuff...


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## TXAGGIE10 (Jun 1, 2009)

Barefoot said:


> I was driving between College Station and Navasota a few times yesterday and saw four DPS officers working Highway 6. Each officer had a different type of car pulled over.
> 
> Everyone drive the speed limit through the area and no refusal weekend starts today!


Not this weekend.

The "No Refusal Weekend" starts next Friday, April 9-10th. The weekend of ChiliFest.

http://www.kbtx.com/home/headlines/89602772.html


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## Privateer (Nov 28, 2009)

Yams said:


> When i was a teen in Schertz, this used to happen to me all the time. This was back in the mid 90s. I was routinely pulled over, and almost always searched, tested, patted down etc...never did they find anything.
> 
> I always just attributed it to Schertz Police not having much else to do.


Ain't nothing more dangerous than a bored or PO'ed LEO... Just my opinion


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## frank n texas (Aug 11, 2004)

A box of donuts on the back seat might ward off those kind of officers....OK...Just kidding here...:cop:


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## five.0 fisher (Jan 9, 2005)

Privateer said:


> Ain't nothing more dangerous than a bored or PO'ed LEO... Just my opinion


Here are a few of many things much more dangerous:
Robbery suspect
Heavily intoxicated driver
Rape supect 
Emotionally Disturbed gunman on the loose

I could go on and on but I have made my point

In the event that you encounter one of the above I am quite certain that you would be happy to have a bored or PO'ed LEO and that you would not find them "dangerous" then.....Just my opinion.


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## five.0 fisher (Jan 9, 2005)

frank n texas said:


> A box of donuts on the back seat might ward off those kind of officers....OK...Just kidding here...:cop:


Now thats funny. Make it Kolaches instead please. I dont care for donuts. Actually, I try to stay in shape so scratch the Kolache suggestion and make it a Low carb protien bar.:biggrin:


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## johnpkimble (Apr 20, 2009)

I think you son did the right thing. First poster hit the nail on the head, if they had reason to search the car they probably had intel or something liike that. Sure your son could have refused but why? 

Yeah, God forbid the cops are out there trying to get drugs off the street. 

Those of you who would have refused you would be completely in your rights but as an officer red flags would have been flown up immediately. And no, without probably cause or a warrant your vehicle cannot be searched. 

From my personal experience you get more with sugar than with salt. A little politeness goes a long way on a traffic stop.


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## johnpkimble (Apr 20, 2009)

deke said:


> Searching his car with no probable cause just because they wanted to is NOT just doing their job.


Know your laws. Probable cause would have given them the right to search without consent. He consented so no probable cause needed.


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## Bobby (May 21, 2004)

johnpkimble said:


> I think you son did the right thing. First poster hit the nail on the head, if they had reason to search the car they probably had intel or something liike that. Sure your son could have refused but why?
> 
> Yeah, God forbid the cops are out there trying to get drugs off the street.
> 
> ...


And that works both ways too.


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## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

johnpkimble said:


> Those of you who would have refused you would be completely in your rights_* but as an officer red flags would have been flown up immediately*_. And no, without probably cause or a warrant your vehicle cannot be searched.


and some officers like using that tacit threat to their advantage.

my refusal can throw up all the red flags you want, but i don't do drugs, i don't transport drugs, and i don't deal drugs, and you ain't searching my vehicle so i can prove it to you. i don't _*need*_ to prove to you that i'm not doing something when you have no reason to believe that i am.


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## htalamant (Mar 31, 2009)

Sorry folks, but I need to say this, and if it does not apply to you, then just ignore it. I am scratching my head wondering how this turned from a "LEO Question" thread to a cop bashing one. Most of you folks know what I do and how I would have answered Bruce's question. I intended to do that but it looks like some other cops beat me to the punch and in the midst of cop bashing. I will dare not make any attempt at answering on this thread since I do not want to get involved in something that people are getting too wrapped around the axle about. 

Instead, I'll pass my humble prayers to other members for their family where it's needed and offer some other words of encouragement to those who request it. I'd dare say some of the members wear their heart on their sleeves when it comes to the police but our careers are like fishbowls. Everyone sees us and will tap on the glass sides because we're out on the open. We never get called when the times are good, only when they're bad so it's easy to chew at us. But, it's our job and a career I chose so I know times like these come with the territory because we can't be everybody's friend. There are some members who have asked specifically to ride out with me and that is something I encourage others to do so they can see what goes on in their community.

I can go on and on but won't since all that matters to me is rightfully serving the community I work for. Again, all that matters to me is the difference I make in the neighborhoods I work for and the people I serve on top of protecting them and their rights. The badge, gun and uniform I wear (including all other cops you see) to include the car I drive is not my personal property. Those all belong to the people who need us to protect them and need mediation from time to time for numerous things that they can't handle. 

I also won't comment specifically because I wasn't there on the stop to make any comment on either side. If you want questions about search and seizure, PM me. I spent a lot of time in court rooms with suppression hearings (and won..knock on wood!) to include trials ending in convictions (again..knocking on wood!) On top of that, I routinely apply the case law I study to real life scenarios that have yielded many guns, drugs and other high profile crimes.

Once again, this only goes to _some_ members so ignore it if it doesn't pertain to you because the more decent commentators like, "MasterCylinder" hit the nail on the head by saying that we're not all that bad. (Sorry MasterCylinder, I'm just saying and I didn't mean to put you on the spot light). I just wanted to throw out there that I am actually disappointed in what some of you folks wrote 'cause you seem to watch way too much tv where things are "Black & White." But then again, this is a social website where I've made some good, lifelong friends so my skin should probably be thicker from those I'm aiming this at. Okay, Okay..I'll shut up now. -Hector


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## coogerpop (Sep 3, 2009)

From what I read recentrly they are forgetting about any tolerence in the speed limits...1-2 miles over and they will pull you over...too much lost revenue by letting folks go.


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## johnpkimble (Apr 20, 2009)

coogerpop said:


> From what I read recentrly they are forgetting about any tolerence in the speed limits...1-2 miles over and they will pull you over...too much lost revenue by letting folks go.


Not getting in an argument but I feel the need to comment again.

Your not "entitled" to any amount over the speed limit. It is a courtesy given by many officers and not all. (this is where the sugar vs. salt comes into play) So you could realistically be issued a citation for 1 mile over. Would the judge probably rule on it in court? Probably not. However if you catch 1 fish over your limit, as another poster stated, your going to pay a nice fine.

And you would be surprised at how little of that _revenue_ money is given to local law enforcement.


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## Bobby (May 21, 2004)

Are all auto speedometers calibrated to that close of tolerance? Does my speedometer have to be calibrated the same as the LEOS radar gun?

I have checked my speedometer against my gps several times and it is never the same.


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## frank n texas (Aug 11, 2004)

five o

I would add to your list:

Routine traffic stop after dark

Getting between a drunken woman and her husband during domestic abuse call...

Jumping over fence in the Getto and finding pits or dobermans in the next yard

Bet ya can figure out how I know these eh?


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## johnpkimble (Apr 20, 2009)

Bobby said:


> Are all auto speedometers calibrated to that close of tolerance? Does my speedometer have to be calibrated the same as the LEOS radar gun?
> 
> I have checked my speedometer against my gps several times and it is never the same.


Yes, the radar's should be routinely calibrated and tested. I havent worked patrol in years but I would do a calibration on mine every day before I got in the patrol car.

There is even a certification for radar units.


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## Privateer (Nov 28, 2009)

Got it! It was a bad attempt at good humor! Look... nobody polices me harder than I do myself. I ain't sayin' I'm perfect but if more people were self policing then Officers would be bored... and that would be a good thing! (Man I feel like I've been pulled over and I'm trying ta hide the empties) Love you guys and would not want to live in any town without Law Enforcement!

*Privateer*


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## Bobby (May 21, 2004)

johnpkimble said:


> Yes, the radar's should be routinely calibrated and tested. I havent worked patrol in years but I would do a calibration on mine every day before I got in the patrol car.
> 
> There is even a certification for radar units.


Ok that explained about the radar units what about my car speedometer? Who calibrates it to match your radar unit?


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## Privateer (Nov 28, 2009)

BTW... did I mention the fact that I *don't* drive a green 1996 Dodge 4X4 pulling a Robalo up and down I-45 every week-end... *but if I* *did*, it would be displaying 4 Centurion stickers on the driver's side rear window?

*Privateer*


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## frank n texas (Aug 11, 2004)

Last I knew radar units have to be certified once a year by shop trained and authorized to do the testing...

Writing speeding tickets with out of date certification are subject to be thrown out of court...You have a right to see the current certification in court.


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## five.0 fisher (Jan 9, 2005)

Bobby,
Most officers would never issue a citation for less than five mph over the speed limit. I do not know the exact wording, but in the charge that the judge reads to the jury on a speeding case it even says something to the fact of "at a speed equal to or greater than 5mph over the posted speed limit" I am very hesitant to give my personal number because not all officers are as generous as I am but what I give over is in the double digits over the posted limit except in school zones. In school zones I give any single digit over, at double digits over the limit I am going to stop and issue a citation. This way I know that the person I pull over and cite was intentionally speeding, or at the very least was not paying attention to their speed. It is due to my very generous number before stopping someone that I do not give very many warnings. Every person that I issue a citation to was deliberate in speeding or at least distracted/reckless in paying attention to their speed and driving.
Thats the long answer, the short answer is that we only have control over ensuring our radars are calibrated and certification is current, we cant control whether the violators vehicles speedo is currect or not.


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## five.0 fisher (Jan 9, 2005)

Privateer said:


> BTW... did I mention the fact that I *don't* drive a green 1996 Dodge 4X4 pulling a Robalo up and down I-45 every week-end... *but if I* *did*, it would be displaying 4 Centurion stickers on the driver's side rear window?
> 
> *Privateer*


Ha Ha. That is funny. Did I mention I-45 is part of my area? Dont worry a 1996 Dodge pulling a heavy Robalo on 45 on the weekend wont be able to speed fast enough for me to stop.


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## LandPirate (Jun 5, 2009)

Bobby said:


> Ok that explained about the radar units what about my car speedometer? Who calibrates it to match your radar unit?


I don't get your question. You're speedometer is not going to "match" my radar. Radar is based on sound. It is actually a doppler type radar. Your speedometer is mechanical and set by your vehicle's manufacturer at the factory for a tolerance range that depends on varying factors. Most law enforcement vehicle speedometers are "certified calibrated" to strict toleraces from the factory.


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## Bobby (May 21, 2004)

LandPirate said:


> I don't get your question. You're speedometer is not going to "match" my radar. Radar is based on sound. It is actually a doppler type radar. Your speedometer is mechanical and set by your vehicle's manufacturer at the factory for a tolerance range that depends on varying factors. Most law enforcement vehicle speedometers are "certified calibrated" to strict toleraces from the factory.


My question is really quite simple. How can I get a ticket for going 1 to 5 mph over the speed limit if my speedometer is not calibrated the same as your radar. My speedometer can be off and me not knowing it. I been driving for a lot of years and have never had a speedometer calibrated on my personal car. How do I know if it is within 1 mph of being right. So I am speeding and don't even know it and yet I can get a ticket.


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## Barnacle Bill (May 21, 2004)

LandPirate said:


> I don't get your question. You're speedometer is not going to "match" my radar. Radar is based on sound. It is actually a doppler type radar. Your speedometer is mechanical and set by your vehicle's manufacturer at the factory for a tolerance range that depends on varying factors. Most law enforcement vehicle speedometers are "certified calibrated" to strict toleraces from the factory.


I didn't know those old dopplers were still in use. Austin PD went to laser radars back around 2002 or so. Those old dopplers aren't dependable because we couldn't use them in rain (it scattered the beam) and the great angle to the target vehicle, the greater the error potential. An angle of 45 degrees or so could put a doppler radar reading off by 4 or 5 mph.


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## Free_loader (Nov 4, 2004)

seattleman1969 said:


> Free loader, it's not about having something to hide, it's about someone invading your rights or property without warrant.


Oh i'm with you 100% ... What I said was



Free_loader said:


> I on the other hand would not have let them search my vehicle... I'm not a follower of "nothing to hide" mentality ... I enjoy every right guaranteed to me by my constitution and i don't give them up for convenience


Meaning it doesn't matter if i do or do not have somethign to hide... that does not override my rights to not have my personal property searched without a warrent ...


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## 2slick (Dec 5, 2008)

Just want to say, I know some great cops also, and I know some sorry a** preachers, but I know some good ones too. We have good and bad in every walk of life. It is not limited to one profession by a long shot; but the bad ones are usually the ones that leave the biggest impression on us.

Bobby, take a GPS and check your speedometer. I've found the ones on my vehicles have always been very close, unless I jack with the tire sizes. Most new vehicles can have the speedometer adjusted for tire size by changing data in the ECM. If they start writing tickets for 1 or 2 MPH over the legally posted speed, I'll just back off of it a wee bit. (the accelerator)


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## Levelwind (Apr 15, 2005)

Bobby said:


> My question is really quite simple. How can I get a ticket for going 1 to 5 mph over the speed limit if my speedometer is not calibrated the same as your radar. My speedometer can be off and me not knowing it. .


Same way you can get a ticket for shooting the wrong duck because you didn't know what it was. Or catching the wrong grouper. It's up to you to make sure you don't break the law.


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## Privateer (Nov 28, 2009)

SlickWillie said:


> Just want to say, I know some great cops also, and I know some sorry a** preachers, but I know some good ones too. We have good and bad in every walk of life. It is not limited to one profession by a long shot; but the bad ones are usually the ones that leave the biggest impression on us.
> 
> Bobby, take a GPS and check your speedometer. I've found the ones on my vehicles have always been very close, unless I jack with the tire sizes. Most new vehicles can have the speedometer adjusted for tire size by changing data in the ECM. If they start writing tickets for 1 or 2 MPH over the legally posted speed, *I'll just back off of it a wee bit. (the* *accelerator*)


Unless you drive a Toyota!

*Privateer*


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## Bobby (May 21, 2004)

Levelwind said:


> Same way you can get a ticket for shooting the wrong duck because you didn't know what it was. Or catching the wrong grouper. It's up to you to make sure you don't break the law.


You mean don't drive the posted speed limit cause I don't know what mood the LEO is in that day? Or because I have no ideal if my speedometer is the same as his radar? If you will read my post that I did I said I have compared my speed with the GPS and it is never the same. So tell me which is wrong? If I am driving 63 mph in a 65 mph speed zone and my speedometer is off by 5 mph then I am speeding and deserve a ticket right?

By the way I have never shot a duck from my car.


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## BretE (Jan 24, 2008)

Bobby said:


> You mean don't drive the posted speed limit cause I don't know what mood the LEO is in that day? Or because I have no ideal if my speedometer is the same as his radar? If you will read my post that I did I said I have compared my speed with the GPS and it is never the same. So tell me which is wrong? If I am driving 63 mph in a 65 mph speed zone and my speedometer is off by 5 mph then I am speeding and deserve a ticket right?
> 
> By the way I have never shot a duck from my car.


63 in 65....pfffffttt.........no you're not speeding and please get out of the left lane!


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## Privateer (Nov 28, 2009)

Bobby said:


> You mean don't drive the posted speed limit cause I don't know what mood the LEO is in that day? Or because I have no ideal if my speedometer is the same as his radar? If you will read my post that I did I said I have compared my speed with the GPS and it is never the same. So tell me which is wrong? If I am driving 63 mph in a 65 mph speed zone and my speedometer is off by 5 mph then I am speeding and deserve a ticket right?
> 
> By the way I have never shot a duck from my car.


Sir!... Move away from the keyboard and keep your hands visible! Now lay down on the floor and interlock your fingers behind your head!


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## Tortuga (May 21, 2004)

Brete said:


> 63 in 65....pfffffttt.........no you're not speeding and please *get out of the left lane*!


ROFLMAO...Ya beat me to it by a split second, Brete...:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:


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## LandPirate (Jun 5, 2009)

Bobby,
I get what you are saying now. Technically you are responsible for knowing if your equipment is faulty or in error. However, I don't know of any cops that would write a ticket for 5 or less over the limit. I think that is foolish. I'm not saying that it hasn't happened but I would never do it. I have stopped (pretext) people for going 5 over but never cited them. 

Secondly, your speedometer is not going to register 5 mph off at every speed. It will be off by a percentage. My speedometer on my personal truck is off by 10% (slow) because I added bigger tires. 

When it comes to searching vehicles, if I have PC I'm not going to ask you if I can look. I'll simply ask you out of the vehicle and will search it or get a search warrant, depending on the circumstances. Fortunately most pot heads don't seem to understand that pot wreaks. That makes PC really easy.


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## seattleman1969 (Jul 17, 2008)

Free_loader said:


> Oh i'm with you 100% ... What I said was
> 
> Meaning it doesn't matter if i do or do not have somethign to hide... that does not override my rights to not have my personal property searched without a warrent ...


Gotcha, misread, my mistake! apologies


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## Bobby (May 21, 2004)

LandPirate said:


> Bobby,
> I get what you are saying now. *Technically you are responsible for knowing if your equipment is faulty or in error. * However, I don't know of any cops that would write a ticket for 5 or less over the limit. I think that is foolish. I'm not saying that it hasn't happened but I would never do it. I have stopped (pretext) people for going 5 over but never cited them.
> 
> Secondly, your speedometer is not going to register 5 mph off at every speed. It will be off by a percentage. My speedometer on my personal truck is off by 10% (slow) because I added bigger tires.
> ...


How are we supposed to know if it is wrong or right? We buy the car and assume that it is right but really don't know. Are we supposed to go get it calibrated or show that be a job for the factory to do?

Brete what do you mean? Have you ever rode with me or followed me around. How do you know how I drive? Or are you just blowing smoke as usual?


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## 11andy11 (Aug 12, 2004)

every time I get pulled over they want to search my vehicle. I politely tell them no and that if they have probable cause they are more than welcome to do it. I then ask if I am free to go.


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## Bobby (May 21, 2004)

Privateer said:


> Sir!... Move away from the keyboard and keep your hands visible! Now lay down on the floor and interlock your fingers behind your head!


Who are you telling me what to do?


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## BretE (Jan 24, 2008)

Bobby said:


> How are we supposed to know if it is wrong or right? We buy the car and assume that it is right but really don't know. Are we supposed to go get it calibrated or show that be a job for the factory to do?
> 
> Brete what do you mean? Have you ever rode with me or followed me around. How do you know how I drive? Or are you just blowing smoke as usual?


Just blowing smoke as usual.......relax, all in fun.....


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## Privateer (Nov 28, 2009)

Bobby said:


> Who are you telling me what to do?


Citizen's arrest? Or maybe justgivit arrest?


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## Bobby (May 21, 2004)

Privateer said:


> Citizen's arrest?


Get after it.


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## boom! (Jul 10, 2004)

Bobby, most gps units will not start working until at least 3mph is obtained. Pull out of the left lane and call a friend to check your speedometer.


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## LandPirate (Jun 5, 2009)

Bobby,
If you ever get a ticket for doing less than 5 mph over the limit (doubtful) then I'd suggest that you contest it and argue this point front of a jury. I can only tell you what the law is and how I apply it. I cannot predict what other cops will do. I put the info in your hands. What you do with it from there is all you. 

I will say, that because factory speedometers are off ever so slightly is a good argument for cops applying common sense and officer discretion. Reasonableness should prevail. This is why traffic courts exist. There is a time and place for your argument.


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## Bobby (May 21, 2004)

Privateer said:


> Citizen's arrest? Or maybe justgivit arrest?


You sir are not old enough, smart enough, or qualified to tell me to do anything.


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## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

this place never ceases to entertain me. :smile:


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## Bobby (May 21, 2004)

LandPirate said:


> Bobby,
> If you ever get a ticket for doing less than 5 mph over the limit (doubtful) then I'd suggest that you contest it and argue this point front of a jury. I can only tell you what the law is and how I apply it. I cannot predict what other cops will do. I put the info in your hands. What you do with it from there is all you.
> 
> I will say, that because factory speedometers are off ever so slightly is a good argument for cops applying common sense and officer discretion. Reasonableness should prevail. This is why traffic courts exist. There is a time and place for your argument.


Very good answer!!:biggrin:


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## Bobby (May 21, 2004)

boomgoon said:


> Bobby, most gps units will not start working until at least 3mph is obtained. Pull out of the left lane and call a friend to check your speedometer.


Another smoke blower.:biggrin:


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## Privateer (Nov 28, 2009)

Bobby said:


> Get after it.


Ahhh...Nope! Gotta change my load of whites over to the drier and go make a living in the Gulf!

*Privateer*


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## LandPirate (Jun 5, 2009)

Barnacle Bill said:


> I didn't know those old dopplers were still in use. Austin PD went to laser radars back around 2002 or so. Those old dopplers aren't dependable because we couldn't use them in rain (it scattered the beam) and the great angle to the target vehicle, the greater the error potential. An angle of 45 degrees or so could put a doppler radar reading off by 4 or 5 mph.


Bill, 
Lasers are great for stationary speed enforcement. For moving enforcement doppler radar is preferred. The new radars are very advanced. They're able to track multiple targets at the same time instead of just the fastest or largest. They can track vehicles moving the same direction as the patrol unit. However they have they're limitations too. They shouldn't be used at an angle greater than 20 degrees or so. Heavy rain still scatters the signal.

Who want to work traffic in the rain anyway? Not I. That's when I haul arse, run stop lights, drive on sidewalks, run people off of the road so I can be first to the donut shop.


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## Barefoot Boy (Sep 27, 2005)

Running a red light on Orange, is not running a Red light! it's getting close, tho.

Never agree to a search. (In a nice manner). If they have to ask permission , they PROBABLY don't have legal criteria to search ( or they do, and they want to see your response). Use your rights. Stop falling back to the ... they can because I didn't do anything wrong. In case of later bs , it;s on record you said no.

I'm no cop (but my best friend is,and he would say "I do not give consent" if asked "mind if I search"), but I think if you're stopped for the 5mph over, refuse search and they fetch the dog, they can't detain you longer than the original stop should have taken. none of this 30 minutes side of road taking apart door panels.

Too bad this searching energy can;t be put in effect at the border: did you guys see that border cam in the jungle? ridiculous!!!

LEO guys: please try not to take it personally if someone stands up for their rights (you know you'd stand up for yours). Yes , there are small town depts that don';t come under the scrutiny the big depts do. 

I think nearly everyone here appreciates LEOs getting scumbags off the road, and know that you guys have to jump thru hoops, dotting I s.


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## frank n texas (Aug 11, 2004)

Krispy Cream stake out eh?.....:rotfl:


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## Free_loader (Nov 4, 2004)

seattleman1969 said:


> Gotcha, misread, my mistake! apologies


no biggie ... I just couldn't have you thinking I was some sort of left wing nutjob ;-)

However if i ever find myself in that situation I think it would only be appropriate to tell the officer that I am willing to trade the right to practice my 4th amendment to practice my 2nd, and he can search my car if i can play with his gun


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## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

maybe your son, even though very good, clean cut, and well mannered to you, is running a little drug ring up at college that was started off your living expense money? I've known several "rich" and "social" families with kids that were bored and got into the exciting stuff. Heck, there were more drugs going through the private schools than the public.


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## boom! (Jul 10, 2004)

InfamousJ said:


> maybe your son, even though very good, clean cut, and well mannered to you, is running a little drug ring up at college that was started off your living expense money? I've known several "rich" and "social" families with kids that were bored and got into the exciting stuff. Heck, there were more drugs going through the private schools than the public.


Thats funny, cause thats what I thought when I met you.


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## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

rwg said:


> Yeah I was ****** but hey I would rather have them be a little over the top then not. Someone needs to get rid of all these drug smugglers coming across the border..maybe I was the clean cut white kid that would lead them to a supplier....


i was going to let this one lie since i'm not one to stir the pot, but if anyone thinks that practices such as this are going to "get rid of all these drug smugglers coming across the border," then you're fooling yourself.

that's like saying that we need to step up arrests on johns so that we can stamp out prostitution. get real.

the war on drugs has been going on for almost 40 years at a cost of right at a trillion dollars, yet the illicit drug business is as healthy as it ever was, if not healthier. it's nothing more than a big cat 'n' mouse game between unlawful drug dealers and users and law enforcement that is perpetuated by politicians whose motives are to get re-elected. in the long run, the war on drugs has accomplished nothing. personally, i find it to be a monumental waste of time and resources.

let drug abusers and addicts carry on at their own risk. nothing is going to stop people from using drugs, if that's what they want to do, and if that's what they want to do, nothing is going to stop people from supplying it to them. it's basic human nature and economics 101.


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## REELING 65 (Aug 18, 2009)

If they really wanted to stop the flow of drugs coming out of Mexico. They could just go in there and wipe it out. Job done lets get back to living. Drugs will be here for as long as there are people living on this earth. It is all about revenue period. Add all the users in the country and ..whoaaa! Yeah it is that bad and do not look for a drug free nation.Not in our life time and not ever. Just like the arm's race and who can buy arms from our country. Thank You America and good night.


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## flashlight (Jul 9, 2007)

mastercylinder said:


> i was going to let this one lie since i'm not one to stir the pot, but if anyone thinks that practices such as this are going to "get rid of all these drug smugglers coming across the border," then you're fooling yourself.
> 
> that's like saying that we need to step up arrests on johns so that we can stamp out prostitution. get real.
> 
> ...


The problem with letting them carry on at their own risk is that they are carrying it on at your risk as well. Applying that concept, we can also say that "we are not going to catch all of the burglars out there so what is the use of even enforcing burglary laws". Stopping the two guys walking down the street at 3 am with screwdrivers in the pockets should be not even looked at.

Look the bottom line is "NO" you are not going to stop everyone, but the goal is to atleast try and make a little bit of an impact. Its easy to put numbers on crime statistics. What you can't put numbers on is the innocent lives you might have saved just by getting one guy off the streets with the Kilo of cocaine.

The bordertown violence has really escalated in the last several years. With cartels fighting over boundaries, its just a matter of time before a major incident will happen in a city in the U.S. We can only do what we can do, but I like to think atleast we are trying to make a difference.


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## donkeyman (Jan 8, 2007)

lot of dope going up back and fourth from them collages and they know that they clearly were lookin for dope but i would think they have a better chance getting a hit on a vehicle heading north from houston because this is where they get the dope i used to work that area i usually woulnt pull over as veh unless they were 80 mph ,you never know thay may have got a tip and his veh matched the it


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## deke (Oct 5, 2004)

InfamousJ said:


> maybe your son, even though very good, clean cut, and well mannered to you, is running a little drug ring up at college that was started off your living expense money? I've known several "rich" and "social" families with kids that were bored and got into the exciting stuff. Heck, there were more drugs going through the private schools than the public.


Nice, you just called his son a drug dealer, LOL.


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## Bruce J (Jun 27, 2004)

> maybe your son, even though very good, clean cut, and well mannered to you, is running a little drug ring up at college that was started off your living expense money? I've known several "rich" and "social" families with kids that were bored and got into the exciting stuff. Heck, there were more drugs going through the private schools than the public.


Thanks for your concern (and where's the sarcasm font??). There are plenty of clean cut and polite kids, rich or otherwise, who use drugs. It's not the case with my son, but perhaps it is with yours.

Bruce


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## wish2fish (Mar 1, 2005)

five.0 fisher said:


> I know this was a long rant but it just alarms me the complete lack of trust that some people have in Law Enforcement.





five.0 fisher said:


> odor of burnt marihuana


Lack of trust may be because if you can't spell it correctly I don't trust you....sorry had to do it.

Oh and my tongue is green 

I don't care what anyone says, the LEO was out of bounds and I can't believe anyone would try to make reasons of why he should have.

This "random" searching is the only way they get much of anything and is a complete break down of our rights and freedoms. Too many people just become complacent with this type of activity and you can see where it is getting us.

Keep turning your head, go on.:headknock

Next thing you know they will draw your blood without your consent, oh wait :headknock

Reminds me of Braveheart; so perhaps they will declare "Droit de seigneur" or Latin phrase "_Jus primae noctis_"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primae_noctis

When will everyone agree enough is enough?


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## deke (Oct 5, 2004)

five.0 fisher said:


> The tongue thing comes from DRE's (Drug Recognition Experts), it is widely known that when a person has smoked marihuana in the last few hours the middle of their tongue will have a distinct green tint. Yes, there are other drinks, candy, and food that we injest that will also cause a green tongue but usually the marihuana tint is distinguishable from the others.
> 
> .


LOL!!!! Drug Recognition Experts, guys that have never partaken in them but will tell you about them.

Green tongue. If this was true I would have a permanent green stripe on my tongue form my high school and college years!! LOL I'm going to have call BS on this, and this comes from a real Drug Recognition Expert...I could "recognize" if it was good weed, I could "recognize" if the bag was light, and I could "recognize" how baked I was, LOL!!

Just having fun with you five-0


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## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

wish2fish said:


> Lack of trust may be because if you can't spell it correctly I don't trust you....sorry had to do it.


"marijuana" is probably the more commonly seen spelling, but "marihuana" is a perfectly acceptable spelling, as well.


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## wish2fish (Mar 1, 2005)

mastercylinder said:


> "marijuana" is probably the more commonly seen spelling, but "marihuana" is a perfectly acceptable spelling, as well.


I guess I will let it slide, it's not like you were doing 5 mph over the speed limit or anything. :smile:

I think back in the 30's it was printed incorrectly then showed up elsewhere that way, New York area.


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## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)




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## bluewaterrip (May 8, 2006)

In '93 I was going to school at TSTC in Waco. A buddy and I decided to go to College Station so he could visit his buddy and I could visit an EX. We left College Station at 9pm to head back to Waco. On the outskirts of town I saw a cop behind me and slowed slightly because my speedo was not working properly. I was in a 80's model Chevy Malibu that was trashy looking but ran good. After a minute or two the cop flipped on his lights and pulled us over. Once pulled over he asked why I was driving slow and I said cause I was unsure of the speed limit which was kinda true. He then asked if I could search my car. My buddy and I thinking like 19 year olds thought that it would be a fun experience like watching COPS. So we said sure. We too had nothing to hide. He then proceeded to ask us why we were in College Station and where we were heading. During this time I was polite and patient. He then decided to tell me that he pulled me over cause my car looked suspisious, basically due to the fact that is was so shatty looking. At this point I informed the cop that I am sorry my car looks like ash but it has a reliable motor and a good transmission and this is the vehichle for which I was given to go to school with. I said that not all people can have a brand new car. Would I like a brand new car sure cause I hate this car and now here you are giving me **** about how crappy my car is. With that he told me I need to calm down which I did. He informed me that he was going to call for back up why he searched my car. We said that is fine. After 20 minutes the other car showed up. This is after the 15 minutes of questions. Once the other car showed they gave me **** because my backseat came out quickly. Wanted to know if my amp that was under the seat was stolen and I said no. He said well with easy access like that it makes it look like you are running drugs. Then he went into the trunk and found 2 tackle boxes. He wanted to know why I had tackle boxes in the trunck. So this is about an hour after being pulled over. So I asked him if he new what tackle boxes were used for. He did not like this answer. 
We continued sitting on the side of the road and we are starting to push close to 10:30 now. I finally told the cop while they are still searching that we still had a long ways to make it to Waco and that I was getting sleepy and I would hate for me to fall asleep while driving due to him harrassing me for an hour and a half. They finally decided to let me go and at that point he said that I should get a different car because this looks like a car a drug dealer would use. Oh man I was Pizzed. That was the last and only time I have been searched. College Station sheriffs Suck!!!!!!


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## five.0 fisher (Jan 9, 2005)

wish2fish said:


> Lack of trust may be because if you can't spell it correctly I don't trust you....sorry had to do it.
> 
> Oh and my tongue is green
> 
> ...


Wishtofish: Go look at a dictionary, I did spell it correctly. The spelling marijuana is originally the Spanish spelling. The spelling marihuana is the proper English spelling and thats the way it is typically spelled in arrest reports, search warrants, etc...

Sorry had to do it:biggrin:


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## five.0 fisher (Jan 9, 2005)

deke said:


> LOL!!!! Drug Recognition Experts, guys that have never partaken in them but will tell you about them.
> 
> Green tongue. If this was true I would have a permanent green stripe on my tongue form my high school and college years!! LOL I'm going to have call BS on this, and this comes from a real Drug Recognition Expert...I could "recognize" if it was good weed, I could "recognize" if the bag was light, and I could "recognize" how baked I was, LOL!!
> 
> Just having fun with you five-0


Its all good. If you know someone who smokes weed and happen to be with them when they are smoking or have just smoked ask them to stick out thier tongue. You will be a believer then. 
Here is a funny story about the spelling issue.
About 15 or so years ago I had a Sergeant kick back one of my reports because I used the spelling Marihuana. I politely pulled out the patrol room dictionary and showed him that Marihuana was actually correct and that dictionary showed the spelling Marijuana to be the alternative spelling with roots of origin from Mexico. My Sergeant was not very happy with being "corrected" and he gave me crappy assignments for a month to prove his point.


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## boom! (Jul 10, 2004)

five.0 fisher said:


> Its all good. If you know someone who smokes weed and happen to be with them when they are smoking or have just smoked ask them to stick out thier tongue. You will be a believer then.


Hook a brother up! I'd volunteer to try that sometime. (for research value only) :slimer:


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## EGT Limited (Jul 30, 2004)

"If you don't have anything to hide why do you object to being searched?" Because I'm an American citizen that's why!


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## Barnacle Bill (May 21, 2004)

EGT Limited said:


> "If you don't have anything to hide why do you object to being searched?" Because I'm an American citizen that's why!


Damned right!


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## Won Hunglo (Apr 24, 2007)

Everytime a search post pops up I rememver the last words of the Jews: "The German soldiers are here. We have nothing to hide. Let them search all they want. What can it hurt?"


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## wish2fish (Mar 1, 2005)

five.0 fisher said:


> Wishtofish: Go look at a dictionary, I did spell it correctly. The spelling marijuana is originally the Spanish spelling. The spelling marihuana is the proper English spelling and thats the way it is typically spelled in arrest reports, search warrants, etc...
> 
> Sorry had to do it:biggrin:


Yes interesting piece of history.

It was a typo in printed form in the 30's and stuck until about the 60's. Yes the Marihuana Tax Stamp of 1937 also had this spelling but was later (correctly) updated to the common English spelling of Marijuana. Yes it is in law books and yes you have a stamp with the spelling but a mistake in the 30's does not make it correct in my opinion. Last I checked this was the United States of America and not Mexico. The Spanish spelling for Marijuana is either marihuana or mariguana.

It is neither here nor there......I said earlier *YOU* were correct in the fact that it is accepted for consistency in law statues in New York and probably elsewhere and I was wrong. :cheers:

"It should be noted that, while modern America uses the spelling "marijuana", in keeping with the most common spelling, the correct spelling for the Marihuana Tax Act is "Marihuana". "Marihuana" was the spelling most commonly used in Federal Government documents at the time. In keeping with prior law, it is still spelled "Marihuana" in some congressional bills such as HR 3037, the Industrial Hemp Farming Act of 2005."


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## speckle-catcher (May 20, 2004)

it's marijuana.

MH & Mary Hane just don't have the same ring to them.


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## Newbomb Turk (Sep 16, 2005)

deke said:


> LOL!!!! Drug Recognition Experts, guys that have never partaken in them but will tell you about them.
> 
> Green tongue. If this was true I would have a permanent green stripe on my tongue form my high school and college years!! LOL I'm going to have call BS on this, and this comes from a real Drug Recognition Expert...I could "recognize" if it was good weed, I could "recognize" if the bag was light, and I could "recognize" how baked I was, LOL!!
> 
> Just having fun with you five-0


That's kinda what I was thinking too! I bet it has something to do with an Obama Homeland Security Policy instructing leos on how to identify Tea Party members who drink green tea.... :rotfl:


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## txjustin (Jun 3, 2009)

Sorry, not searching my rig without a warrant.


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## Barnacle Bill (May 21, 2004)

DRE - Drug Recognition Experts.

About 10 years ago, Austin P.D. implemented this program to train certain officers to recognize someone under the influence of drugs and what kind of drugs. The training is a year long (at least it was, I don't know about now) and they observed subjects on medications in the state hospital, subjects in the ER and subjects being booked into jail. It was also a lot of classroom time but the field work was extensive. The DRE's we had on the department back then were the best.


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## Brassnadz (Jun 18, 2007)

fwoodwader said:


> If they want to search the car kindly tell them they will need a search warrant and they don't have consent to search the car and that you would glady sign the violation and be on their way.


Me too.

Im probably one of the most pro LEO folks on this board, but without them giving me a d--n good reason to search my truck, they are going to need a warrant. Better call a couple more cars too, as I have about a years worth of stuff in the back, and they are gonna need help looking through it all. Be carefull you dont stick your fingers on those fish hooks and such. Hopefully they will find that box of .22 shells Ive been looking for. I have nothing to hide but if I am going to be inconvenienced for no good reason, so are they.


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## fwoodwader (Jul 18, 2008)

Brassnadz said:


> Me too.
> 
> Im probably one of the most pro LEO folks on this board, but without them giving me a d--n good reason to search my truck, they are going to need a warrant. Better call a couple more cars too, as I have about a years worth of stuff in the back, and they are gonna need help looking through it all. Be carefull you dont stick your fingers on those fish hooks and such. Hopefully they will find that box of .22 shells Ive been looking for. I have nothing to hide but if I am going to be inconvenienced for no good reason, so are they.


LOL

I got pulled over in college probably 19 years old with a buddy because we were just cruising around one night looking for something to do, it was a Thursday night and I didn't have any classes the next day. Anyway I was young and dumb and hadn't taken any sort of law classes yet as I would my senior year. Anyway he gets us out of the car and starts going through my stuff because he thought we were up to no good. They had had a string of robberies of change machines at self car washes and bottle filling stations. Anyway the guy keeps threatening us that we are never going to go to school again, we are going to get kicked out of school. Then end up calling in 4 police cars from two different agencies because I guess there was a dispute as to where we actually were.

Anyway it was a Harris County Sheriff that showed up as part of the other agency as we were actually in Harris County and the local PD that pulled us over really shouldn't have. Anyway my buddy and I are sitting on the curb really just hanging out laughing about the whole thing. The local PD guy is not getting happy because he isn't finding anything in my car except school books, a back pack, a set of golf clubs, a basketball, bowling shoes, **** etc. The sheriff comes up to us and asks us if we are in fact the guys they are looking for, no. He asks us if we want to go to county tonight. And no BS my friend without missing a beat says, not really it is a long walk home. The guy just chuckles(I guess he had a sense of humor) and tells us neither did he, goes over the local PD says something hops in his car and heads off. Minutes later local PD lets us go with more threats that they are going to keep tabs on us yada yada and we are going to have to talk to a detective in the morning.

If I had known then what I would have known now I would have not spent close to an hour sitting on a curb while some guy rifled through the stuff in my car because we looked suspicious.


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## monkeyman1 (Dec 30, 2007)

if i get stopped, i'm giving them my DL and POI and will get out of the truck if they want me to do so. beyond that, they'll need to talk to my attorney. write me up for whatever you pulled me over for, but no consent to search, no blowing on anything, no looking at my tongue and no walking a straight line...sure, there are good and bad LEO's and the good ones don't get enough recognition. but i'm not going to play games with the bad ones.


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## Won Hunglo (Apr 24, 2007)

monkeyman1 said:


> sure, there are good and bad LEO's and the good ones don't get enough recognition. but i'm not going to play games with the bad ones.


Very true but the good ones that spend all the time covering up for the bad ones are just as bad IMHO.


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## goatchze (Aug 1, 2006)

Same thing happened to my wife and her 80 year old grandmother a year so ago. Got pulled over for "following too close" behind a tractor trailor. The patrolman who pulled her over was coming in the opposite direction, around a curve, and my wife was actually in a different lane!

He pulled them over, had them get out of the vehicle, harassed them about where they were coming, where they were going, lectured them about following to close. Then wanted to search their car. Granny, as quick as a whip, spurts out "you have a reason? then no".

He lectures them about how he could call and get a warrant, could search the car if he wanted to, yada yada, lectures them some more. Writes my wife a warning and off he goes.

The only thing we can figure is that maybe they had "profiled" her car. But really, how many drug dealers/users drive a brand new VW Jetta TDI?

Or maybe he misunderstood them when they said, "we're going to buy pots". As in, flower pots. LOL!


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## FOUL HOOKED (Jan 3, 2006)

five.0 fisher said:


> he gave me crappy assignments for a month to prove his point.


Man sounds like a Sergeant I had when I was rollin and patrolin!  J/K 5-0


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## Blue Water Breaux (Feb 6, 2008)

Bruce J said:


> Thanks for your concern (and where's the sarcasm font??). There are plenty of clean cut and polite kids, rich or otherwise, who use drugs. It's not the case with my son, but perhaps it is with yours.
> 
> Bruce


Bruce,

I have quite a few friends that go to Baylor and having a gf there, I make the trip at least 2x a month. The LEOs have been out in full force as of late...and to be honest, they have always been tough around there w/ DPS and some silver cars marked with a giant "Star" on the driver/passenger front quarter panel- even had one flash his lights at me after I slowed down to the speed limit, thankfully he let me slide. Point being, a lot of people get pulled over in this area. Baylor, although known for good southern academia, has one of the worst drug problems I've seen. Countless friends have been pulled over and searched, only to find NOTHING. Yes, its their job to do so, but most of this is what seems to be "profiling" as many college students make the Houston/Waco trip every wkend. Another reason this happens is due to how dangerous the drive between CS and Waco can be. There are constantly reports of head-ons and fatalities around Hearne. Thankfully the road has been widened to 2 lanes each way with a median...

Glad your son remained calm, I have personal opinions on LEOs around that area in particular and heard horror stories of the way they treat people. Personally, I cannot attest to any personal stories, esp negative ones from there. My gf was pulled over coming back (South of CS) and the DPS leo gave her a warning-

If your son wa pulled over for 5mph, consider him lucky- i usually do 10mph and have people routinely fly past me like I'm sitting still. Glad it worked out for him.


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## Levelwind (Apr 15, 2005)

five.0 fisher said:


> Seriously? You really think that "many" cops would do this? I can promise you that if we cant get the bad guy this time, we will get him the next. I am not going to prison for any reason, including trying to make an arrest. I have never met an officer in my 17 years of Law Enforcement that has this low of morals. I am not dumb enough to say it never happens anywhere in the United States, but I am confident that it is very isolated and not "many" as you say.
> In Texas, all agencies are governed by TCLEOSE, which sets strict standards for Law Enforcement Professionals. In addition to those guidleines, most agencies set even stricter qualifications, background investigations, applicant screenings, psych evaluations, etc., to weed out the bad apples before they ever pin on the badge. This does not catch all the bad apples and some become bad apples after they pin on the badge but that is the exception and diffinately not the rule or the norm.
> Yes, there are overzealous officers out there. They are usually the "rookies" who are still a little wet behind the ears and feel like they have something to prove. In my experience, these rookies might be more strict in their enforcement of the law than I am, but in time they usually learn to tell the difference between Joe Q the citizen and Joe $#%^ the terd and adapt thier overzealous enforcement over time. I can assure you that each agency that I come in contact with and work with would never tolerate "fabrication or planting of evidence" in any officer and it would be grounds for immediate termination and prosecution if such actions were ever taken.
> There are bad examples of every profession out there it does'nt mean the entire profession is bad.


Five-Oh, 
Seriously. If you wonder what my reasons are for making such a statement, I just have had many freinds and two close family members in law enforcement. Like most everyone, I'm interested in their work, and listen closely to their stories. I have come to the conclusion that our police are a mirror of our society, generally neither significantly better nor significantly worse than the populations they serve. The power of the badge magnifies their errors and like all power, has the ability to corrupt.

I'm not a cop hater, I have never had a run in with the law in my life, but I know better than the fantasy that bad cops, and let me say here, I'm not referring only to the true criminals who murder and take kickbacks, etc. because I'm sure they are extremely rare, but those who stretch their power, over run citizens rights, would "help" the D.A.s case with a little extra evidence if they knew they couldn't be caught and that the accused was guilty, are a tiny minority. Most cops, like most non-cops, will do something wrong during their career. Some get sloppy, or lazy, or overly ambitious and do quite a few things wrong. They get overwhelming support from their peers, their union, and their management when accused unless there is an undeniable, lead pipe cinch smoking gun. And the "bad" ones depend on this sort of support.

I do believe they are the minority, but not a tiny minority as some would contend. It only takes ONE to ruin your life.

To the OPs issue. The law requires, I believe, either probable cause, or a "reasonable articulable suspicion" of lawbreaking to obtain a warrant or search without permission. I have been asked twice in my life by L.E. to do a search. One was a USFWS officer who seemed like a decent and reasonable guy, so I said sure. He poured my blind bag out in a rice field with three inches of water in it and hung around long enough to flare two flocks of geese on a tough day.

The second guy was a DPS trooper who pulled me over for a tail light out on my trailer. He asked if he could "check the inside of my car" and I asked him directly "what are you looking for and what makes you think I have it ?". If I had gotten a good answer I would have consented to the search but it was late, my 80 pound lab was in the backseat, etc. Hassle. He just kind of ignored the question, and asked if I had been hunting, I told him yes and he told me to get the tail light fixed as soon as possible and drive safely.

I guess there's no harm in asking, but the guy obviously was just going to "go fishing". To his credit, he didn't give me any static and was very calm and professional.


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## ktdtx (Dec 16, 2006)

> If your son had nothing to hide then he did the right thing.


I have read all 15 pages and seems there are reasons to let someone search and reasons to NOT let someone search BUT, IMO, the idea that you let an "authority"--

Police, FBI, CIA, Homeland Security or Al Gore do things because if you have nothing to hide there should be no problem is not one of the reasons to acquiesce to a search.


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## Mike77015 (Dec 27, 2007)

I was on my way to work one day last week, heading over the Toll Bridge. I had gotten behind a big truck passing a slower moving big truck. A female AA DPS officer got right on my rear bumper at the same time I was next to the slow moving truck like I was supposed to pull over right now. I am still behind the truck doing the passing, and once he passed he pulls to the climbing lane. So I pass both trucks and pull in front of them to get out of the way of the officer. She pulled up to me and had the look of Michell O on a bad day, staring me down. Now her lights were not on or anything, and I guess it was a good thing she did not try and pull me over. I tend to get a little irrate in situations like that.


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## Fishin-Inc (May 27, 2004)

*Hi*

Just wanted to puke on this page.
And College station cops do suck. Oh, let's just say they did when they smashed my car and said they weren't speeding over 35 mph in a construction zone.


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## Bassman5119 (Feb 26, 2008)

*So All Speedo's are Exactly Correct??*



carryyourbooks said:


> so going 5 mph over is ok? is it ok to run a red light if it was orange? 5 mph over the limit is speeding no matter how you look at it. my elderly neighbor once got a ticket years ago for going 1 mph over. you don't want a ticket? don't break the law! you would think that i am a leo, but i am not. i just believe that laws (most of them) are put in place to protect us. whether or not we believe that they are justified does not give us permission to break them.
> 
> just sayin'.


Speedometers are calibrated and are exactly correct for the life of the vehicle, even when you buy new different size tires, correct? I think not.

Watches are also exactly correct. Mine says 5:25 right now. Does yours say 5:30? 5 mph over the limit is BS. They were harrassing him. Like one post said, if the Son was black, those cops would have lost their jobs.


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## swank26 (Mar 1, 2010)

*cops*

I just want to say that if every crook out there looked like a thug and broke the law as they traveled down the road there would not be a big drug problem. The thing some folks dont understand (because they have never been a peace officer) is they drive in suits and ties, 60-80 years old, clean cut, women and children, and have vehicles traveling in front and behind telling them when a cop is near. We just got a 65 year old man this week with money in the engine going to mexico and you would not be able to tell by an his outer appearance until you seriously questioned him. They hire people with no criminal historys and clean cut so we will let them go thinking there a good person. Also for they guy said the trooper picked on him even though he was going fishing...they got 1000lbs of marjiuana last week out of a boat going to Houston. The smugglers look just like everyone else so they will fit in in traffic and not be noticed and try not to break traffic laws. Also as an officer if I walk up to your car and you think/treat me as a crooked cop why should I be nice to you?


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## deke (Oct 5, 2004)

swank26 said:


> I just want to say that if every crook out there looked like a thug and broke the law as they traveled down the road there would not be a big drug problem. The thing some folks dont understand (because they have never been a peace officer) is they drive in suits and ties, 60-80 years old, clean cut, women and children, and have vehicles traveling in front and behind telling them when a cop is near. We just got a 65 year old man this week with money in the engine going to mexico and you would not be able to tell by an his outer appearance until you seriously questioned him. They hire people with no criminal historys and clean cut so we will let them go thinking there a good person. Also for they guy said the trooper picked on him even though he was going fishing...they got 1000lbs of marjiuana last week out of a boat going to Houston. The smugglers look just like everyone else so they will fit in in traffic and not be noticed and try not to break traffic laws. Also as an officer if I walk up to your car and you think/treat me as a crooked cop why should I be nice to you?


I understand your point, but it kind of sounds like you are excusing the behavior of just pulling someone over because it is hard to to tell who has contraband. So just pull over as many people as possible, then search them and hope that you find something. I understand it is hard to tell who has what but the ends don't justify the means if people's rights are trampled on IMO.


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## boom! (Jul 10, 2004)

swank26 said:


> I just want to say that if every crook out there looked like a thug and broke the law as they traveled down the road there would not be a big drug problem. The thing some folks dont understand (because they have never been a peace officer) is they drive in suits and ties, 60-80 years old, clean cut, women and children, and have vehicles traveling in front and behind telling them when a cop is near. We just got a 65 year old man this week with money in the engine going to mexico and you would not be able to tell by an his outer appearance until you seriously questioned him. They hire people with no criminal historys and clean cut so we will let them go thinking there a good person. Also for they guy said the trooper picked on him even though he was going fishing...they got 1000lbs of marjiuana last week out of a boat going to Houston. The smugglers look just like everyone else so they will fit in in traffic and not be noticed and try not to break traffic laws. Also as an officer if I walk up to your car and you think/treat me as a crooked cop why should I be nice to you?


Why the heck should anyone be nice to you? You state that we are all suspects until you prove otherwise. That ain't the way it works. I've got a news flash for you, some crooks and drug dealers drive police cars too. Do your tactics go the same for your cop buddies? Your tactics suck, and you are the one that gives all of the good officers a hard job in the public relations department.


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## 2slick (Dec 5, 2008)

swank26 said:


> I just want to say that if every crook out there looked like a thug and broke the law as they traveled down the road there would not be a big drug problem. The thing some folks dont understand (because they have never been a peace officer) is they drive in suits and ties, 60-80 years old, clean cut, women and children, and have vehicles traveling in front and behind telling them when a cop is near. We just got a 65 year old man this week with money in the engine going to mexico and you would not be able to tell by an his outer appearance until you seriously questioned him. They hire people with no criminal historys and clean cut so we will let them go thinking there a good person. Also for they guy said the trooper picked on him even though he was going fishing...they got 1000lbs of marjiuana last week out of a boat going to Houston. The smugglers look just like everyone else so they will fit in in traffic and not be noticed and try not to break traffic laws. Also as an officer if I walk up to your car and you think/treat me as a crooked cop why should I be nice to you?


You sure make me question your age and education. I'll leave it at that.


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## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

swank26 said:


> I just want to say that if every crook out there looked like a thug and broke the law as they traveled down the road there would not be a big drug problem. The thing some folks dont understand (because they have never been a peace officer) is they drive in suits and ties, 60-80 years old, clean cut, women and children, and have vehicles traveling in front and behind telling them when a cop is near. We just got a 65 year old man this week with money in the engine going to mexico and you would not be able to tell by an his outer appearance until you seriously questioned him. They hire people with no criminal historys and clean cut so we will let them go thinking there a good person. Also for they guy said the trooper picked on him even though he was going fishing...they got 1000lbs of marjiuana last week out of a boat going to Houston. The smugglers look just like everyone else so they will fit in in traffic and not be noticed and try not to break traffic laws. Also as an officer if I walk up to your car and you think/treat me as a crooked cop why should I be nice to you?


i find that post to be a little disturbing. i'm not sure peace officer was the best career choice for you.


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## speckle-catcher (May 20, 2004)

mastercylinder said:


> i find that post to be a little disturbing. i'm not sure peace officer was the best career choice for you.


reminds me a bit of that other young kid cop that was banned last year...what was his name?


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## rockhound76 (Feb 22, 2007)

The "if you have nothing to hide" mentality is the surest path to tyranny. If I have nothing to hide, then I have nothing to hide. Leave me alone.

You will not search my car without cause. If you do, there will be (legal) consequences.


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## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

speckle-catcher said:


> reminds me a bit of that other young kid cop that was banned last year...what was his name?


:rotfl: i was thinking about him the other day shortly after this thread started. i can't remember what he called himself, but he was a real punk.


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## mchildress (Jul 11, 2009)

Guys I hate posting on these threads because I don't care what forum it turns into a cop bashing.Everybody seems to remember one bad encounter and forgets about all the good. It is just human nature most folks don't want to see a cop until they need one. Lets hear about your occupation and a story of the biggest idiot on your shift and pick your job apart. 

But a little advise the officer has no idea who you are and having a good attitude will go a long ways.


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## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

mchildress said:


> Guys I hate posting on these threads because I don't care what forum it turns into a cop bashing.Everybody seems to remember one bad encounter and forgets about all the good. It is just human nature most folks don't want to see a cop until they need one. Lets hear about your occupation and a story of the biggest idiot on your shift and pick your job apart.


that's not true. don't paint with such a broad stroke.

from page 5:



mastercylinder said:


> most cops i've ever encountered were polite, respectful and very decent people just out doing their job, but we all know that there are a minority of cops out there who think they _*are*_ the law instead of _*enforcers*_ of the law.
> 
> people in this thread aren't cop bashing. they are demonstrating their opposition to events like this that most of the public feel should never happen.


as in any other profession, there are competent members of that profession and incompetent ones. but, when you run into an incompetent law enforcement officer it can be much more traumatic and memorable than running into an incompetent produce manager at the grocery.



> But a little advise the officer has no idea who you are and having a good attitude will go a long ways.


remember, that works both ways.


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## speckle-catcher (May 20, 2004)

mastercylinder said:


> :rotfl: i was thinking about him the other day shortly after this thread started. i can't remember what he called himself, but he was a real punk.


WWR: http://2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/showthread.php?t=224227


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## Levelwind (Apr 15, 2005)

swank26 said:


> Also as an officer if I walk up to your car and you think/treat me as a crooked cop why should I be nice to you?


Because you work for us. Not the other way around.

And if that's not enough, you probably have a professionalism section in your organizational code of conduct which requires it, making it part of your job. If you don't that's an organizational deficiency.

Most of us, myself included, don't really care whether you're "nice to" me or not. Be respectful and professional (which includes minding your boundaries) and we'll be fine.


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## CoastalOutfitters (Aug 20, 2004)

probably because he had a bu sticker and was near TAMU luckily it wasn't a tu sticker or he would have heard banjo music


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## goatchze (Aug 1, 2006)

.


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## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

speckle-catcher said:


> WWR: http://2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/showthread.php?t=224227


 yeah, that's the little turd.


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## htalamant (Mar 31, 2009)

SlickWillie said:


> You sure make me question your age and education. I'll leave it at that.


*............OUCH!!*



mastercylinder said:


> i find that post to be a little disturbing. i'm not sure peace officer was the best career choice for you.


*............OUCH!!*


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## Dutch Treat (May 21, 2004)

Trouthunter said:


> Dang it...I agree with MC and there's something just wrong about that.
> 
> Quick...someone post a dead snake picture so I can read his rants!
> 
> ...


Yep, me too...:biggrin::biggrin:


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## swank26 (Mar 1, 2010)

*search*

Guys, some of you have taken what I said way off from the way I meant it and I hope this can calm the storm. My reply was to help paint a picture of what we see. It was not meant that everyone was a crook, or everyone was guilty until "I" prove them innocent after I searched them. I stop all violations I can safely get to as I was trained no matter how big or small the violation. I wanted to tell yall that bad people look just like good people so thats why officers go beyond the traffic violation you were stopped for. Thats it!!! Also on the "being nice" comment I was mearly commenting on how some on here disrespect officers but then want a peace officer be respectful to them. Also the thread asked for a LEO's opinion. If you dont agree with my opinion PM me or talk to me about it, maybe I can explain it better whether we end up agreeing or not. It doesnt take much of a man to say demeaning things about a person sitting behind a computer, but talking about your opinions respectfully (no matter if you agree or not) does. No matter what is said I would be there in a heart beat if you or your family ever needed it.


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## txgwgal76 (Jan 27, 2010)

The drug classes I've been to always tell you not to expect a "type" of person to haul drugs. Anyone placed in the wrong set of circumstances could potentially haul drugs. They gave an example of a 72 year old caucasian man that had been caught with a load of dope. He did it because his wife was ill and had huge medical costs that he could not afford. So anyone can be a possible smuggler. Police officers very often are on a drug task force specifically assigned by their Captains and told to search every car they can legally. Your son may have only been doing 5 mph over but it was a violation so that is the probable cause to stop. The green tongue thing is because people are constantly cooking up some new designer drug or changing the presentation to stay ahead of LEO. Your son's courtesy was a good idea but he always retains the right to refuse the search. A refusal may cause a longer delay because the officer will be suspicious. Just as in my job people feel like they are being singled out when we inspect their safety equipment to make sure they are safe I know many feel put out with a vehicle search. There is no set vehicle, color, race that can be singled out because it's always changing. I apologize that this left a bad taste but most of us LEO's are only trying to keep the public safe from the bad guys.


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## bluewateraggie (May 27, 2009)

*Update via sapd and dps*

The 5 to 10 mile an hour buffer is gone. Officers are now pulling over anyone going over the posted speed limit. This started Thursday before Easter and will be in affect from here on out. The searches are up to the officer. You would be surprised at all the searches I witnessed this past weekend. The are cracking down big time so be prepared.


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## CoastalOutfitters (Aug 20, 2004)

OK,

to all you LEOS.............

would you be irritated if your child or spouse was pulled over and subjected to a thorough search over something petty ?


a simple yes or no answer , but think hard about it first....................

and remember the 4th amendment from your US history class..........


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## speckle-catcher (May 20, 2004)

whether they want to admit it or not - they won't...and say it won't bother them.


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## deke (Oct 5, 2004)

"and told to search every car they can legally"

IMO if you go into traffic stops knowing that you are going to try to find a way to search every vehicle you stop you are infringing upon our 4th amendment rights, and is BS.

" I wanted to tell yall that bad people look just like good people so thats why officers go beyond the traffic violation you were stopped for"

So from this I take it that because of this everyone is a suspect, so you should search everyone. IMO this is not PC to search.


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## long shot (Sep 23, 2006)

speckle-catcher said:


> WWR: http://2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/showthread.php?t=224227


Wow...just wow. I only read the first page or two of that thread. Things like that help me understand where the "police state" mentallity comes from. In my 10 years of law enforcement there has been more restrictive changes in law enforcement than I can list. As far as searches go, Arizona V Gant was a more recent change that the supreme court passed. With that said, threads like the one above certainly make it look like were just out to take freedom away in a wanton fashion.

Coastal outfitters - My brother (clean cut kid) had his vehicle searched a few years ago. He wasnt too bothered by it and given the circumstances he understood. A state trooper stopped me and when I told him I had a gun in the truck he asked me to get out and did a quick search of my vehicle. The only thing that bothered me was how unsafe he was during the search. Under those circumstances, no, it didnt bother me. If an officer pulled me over for 5 mph over and wanted to search my car for no good reason...yes, it would bother me.

Speckle-catcher - Thats just a broad ignorant post about me and the others that have chosen this career path. There are people (not just officers) that arent bothered by police officers doing searches. Making statements like "whether they want to admit it or not they wont" discredits the opinions of those who are truely not bothered by it and proves that you truely are not open to any form of debate on the issue.


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## TripleGrip (Oct 18, 2007)

it was on the news a few days back that because of the economy most police aren't going to cut anyone much slack.


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## htalamant (Mar 31, 2009)

CoastalOutfitters said:


> OK,
> 
> to all you LEOS.............
> 
> ...





speckle-catcher said:


> whether they want to admit it or not - they won't...and say it won't bother them.


Coastal..."Specifically" for "You!" "YES!" I would be enraged! Speckle-Catcher...the following is for you because of your comment: I don't know what you're assuming, but if you want to know the truth, "Provided my wife was in the wrong and she is treated with respect, it doesn't bother me a bit if my family gets pulled over." My wife was on her way back from Dallas a few weeks ago with our kids and got stopped by a DPS Trooper who said she was speeding. My wife was confused and actually argued with him a bit but once they got past that point, it was on to the "next step." My wife actually took "offense" to the trooper asking her questions about where she was coming from, headed to, how long was she gone, etc. etc. 

I wasn't there, but I could tell my wife almost felt it was, "beneath" her to have been questioned. Of course, any husband would be defensive and wonder..."***?!" But as she was getting more into the story, I could already tell it was a drug interdiction interview and I wasn't bothered by it (I even think she got mad when I chuckled in relief). A search wasn't asked (and no, my name and profession wasn't dropped either) but in a few moments, the trooper was able to determine that he didn't need to look any further. If he would have asked for the search, my wife probably would have consented or told him to get a warrant...."yeah...my wife would do that!" But that is something you would have to ask her about regarding the reasoning.

Now, that stop itself turned out to be good (at least I thought so). She walked away with a written warning and kindly thanked the trooper. Now, had it been a hot-headed SOB that acted like he ran the world...well, I'm gonna have problems. Especially because my kids were there. Has that happened to her? No, but imagine "this" happening to your wife because it happened to mine: About 5 years ago when I was in the Bexar County Gang Unit, another cop (from some podunk nearby town) stalked and came onto her repeatedly by sending several "inappropriate" messages to her on her myspace page that clearly announced she is married with kids (he had no clue I was a cop). Needless to say, I was incensed and actually thought about "taking it to the park" with him. Instead, I got him where it I "knew" it would hurt him the most by printing out all the messages he wrote and I took them straight to his supervisors who were not in the least bit thrilled. Let's just say it was promptly "addressed" and this jackarse is proudly guarding some gumball machine in a Mexican Restaurant instead of patrolling the streets as a sexual predator where he was liable to become his community's problem instead of a solution. 

And here's something else for you to chew on. I have teenage stepkids who know better not to embarrass me or themselves if they ever happen to get stopped by the police. They are at that "age" where they're liable to come into an encounter with the police sooner or later. So they know better than to throw my name on the side of the road like it's a "credit card" or "get out of trouble" freebie. If they did something blatantly stupid, they need to be dealt with either by a citation or throw their behinds in jail if they talk themselves into that route, but they better not call me 'cause I'd be embarrassed to no end if I got a phone call from one of my peers about one of my kids! None of us LEO's are above and beyond making mistakes while driving on the road and this extends to our families. 

In my job, I have had the misfortune of stopping police officers' children. Okay, maybe not a teenage children, but you try dealing with an adult whose "daddy" is "lieutenant such-and-such" or has an uncle with "this agency" while their car wreaks of Marijuana or alcohol...or better, they're now _claiming_ you for based the stop on the fact that they're black! How do you deal with that? I'll tell you..."Hook 'em up like anyone else" if it goes that route. I've arrested other cops' kids for numerous reasons. Drugs, DWI, Disorderly Conduct, etc. etc. etc.....and have actually received phone calls from their parents apologizing for what they've done because you have absolutely no idea whatsoever how embarrassing it is (even for me) to explain to them how their adult kids or relatives were acting on a simple stop and dropping their name (it doesn't look good on video too by the way). 

If anyone, my wife knows how dangerous my job is on traffic stops and how I almost got taken away from her and my kids by almost getting murdered a few times by armed subjects on those stops. So out of all people, _"she"_ knows better than anyone not to make their job harder. But my wife has an inkling when someone is overstepping their boundaries. She will say something and speak up without fear of consequence. My wife knows how much I pride myself on protecting people's rights because I treat everyone like I would want my wife and family treated on the side of a road. So be careful what you're saying and do not "peg" all of us LEO's like we have a "buddy system" going on that you don't know about and that you can only explain by making comments such as yours! -Hector


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## boom! (Jul 10, 2004)

If I were a cop, I'd only pull over and search hotties. If drugs were found I am sure that something could be worked out. :rotfl:



Here's to chippies!!! :brew2:


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## long shot (Sep 23, 2006)

TripleGrip said:


> it was on the news a few days back that because of the economy most police aren't going to cut anyone much slack.


Because of the economy the media is going to make up stories. Id say there is much more "slack" now than ever.


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## monkeyman1 (Dec 30, 2007)

htalamant said:


> My wife actually took "offense" to the trooper asking her questions about where she was coming from, headed to, how long was she gone, etc. etc.
> 
> I wasn't there, but I could tell my wife almost felt it was, "beneath" her to have been questioned.


question hector: why did your wife answer them as to where she was coming from, etc? the law doesn't required that she converse with them. she just had to produce her DL and POI. and thanks for being one of the good guys.:cheers:


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## greengohoneymoon (Mar 4, 2009)

Very common between Baylor and College Station, I went to Baylor myself (96-00) and this is not the first story of this sort. If he's innocent there's nothing to hide... but it is a bit of BS!


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## CoastalOutfitters (Aug 20, 2004)

I must state that I have several very good friends who are LEO's and I have the utmost respect for the profession, but...........

Here's a couple to chew on that i have heard of only after "prob cause" searches like 5mph over , lic. plate w dealer trim ring around it, and the dreaded weaving, etc.

Cited or warning ticket:

Illegal knife.....8" fillet knife headed to beach to fish, truck full of fishing gear.

illegal club,,,, fishbat in gear bag, headed to go offshore ,truck full of offshore rods as well

illegal weapon.....machete, going to cut bananas at beach house

illegal weapon ...pistol in duffel bag , headed to beachhouse or deer camp.........detained, released after threatening with felony charges?

open container... beer can in cup holder, lid clearly cut way out , full of tobacco spit

open container , leaving beach house leftover partial open bottle of tequila in box of groceries.in back seat.


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## Privateer (Nov 28, 2009)

long shot said:


> Because of the economy the media is going to make up stories. Id say there is much more "slack" now than ever.


After a trip 2 weeks ago I had cleaned out my boat of all the "dead Soldiers" and a few still live ones along with all the other trash you accumulate on a fishing trip. There were no trash cans arround so I threw the bag in the back of my Tahoe and started for the house. As it were, I was pulled over for What the officer said was a courtesy stop, one brake light out. As he was talking to me he asked me "is that alcohol I smell"? Then it dawned on me that I had a bunch of open containers in the back!
He talked with me for a long while as he had me open up the rear door and I guess he determined that I had not been drinking. Any ways he could of nailed me for several hundred dollars but instead said he would let me go with a warning, and took the garbage bag outta my 'Hoe and put it in the trunk of his cruiser... said he' take care of that for me! I don't really know where I'm trying ta go with this but this guy is aces in my book!

*Privateer*


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## htalamant (Mar 31, 2009)

monkeyman1 said:


> question hector: why did your wife answer them as to where she was coming from, etc? the law doesn't required that she converse with them. she just had to produce her DL and POI. and thanks for being one of the good guys.:cheers:


Well, I didn't want to get too much into that part but she "did" answer the trooper's questions because she had nothing to hide and the way he asked them made her feel "at ease" because they were simple, to the point and he didn't give her the "third degree feeling." The questions he asked her are the same ones I ask on stops so I explained to her that the trooper was trying to "feel out" her answers to determine if she was up to something. I wasn't there during the stop, but I'm under the assumption that because she was able to answer the questions fluidly and without the hesitating "uhm..uhm..uhms" and stammering voice that would have made the trooper think, "Hey Hector's wife is Miss Marijuana Universe" then he determined within those first few moments that her story was legit. The traffic contact with my wife was not intrusive and a traffic stop is actually a lawful detention where simple questions _can_ be asked. The courts have ruled that questions such as these are not intrusive in nature because within those first few moments, reasonable suspicion is being determined whether a crime is going on. 

Now, if they feel that the officer "overstepped' their boundaries and "extended" the stop, then you're gonna have issues. This happened to me actually and not because I overstepped my boundaries, but because there was an issue of a dog who had a craving for Mexican Food (me). The traffic stop extended only because this meth cook had a large, aggressive pit bull strapped into his backseat (he had been cooking and selling meth for years and had the dog there so police would not be able to search it!) and I had to wait for a backup unit to arrive so I could search the car incidental to the odor of marijuana. I later recovered a considerable amount of both Meth and Marijuana.

In the suppression hearing of this incident, the meth cook's lawyer argued the "roadside interview" questions I asked were intrusive as oppossed to his client just providing me with his DL and Insurance needed for me to complete the written warning. After I explained the area was a known location for illegal narcotics and weapons trafficking, (combined with a laundry list of things to include this guy's "meth cook burns") the court agreed that they were "non instrusive" in nature and can be asked by any peace officer to determine whether a crime is afoot. Needless to say, the suppression hearing ruled against the defendant and moved onto the trial (where he was later convicted and given the maximum sentence). Just as long as the questions are short, sweet and simple, then you should be good. 

But if the person does not agree to any simple questions then the answer is "no," they do not have to answer or converse with the officer. They can tell me to pound sand and go eat a donut and there's nothing I can do about it. I don't encourage people to do this because you'll likely talk your way into a stiff fine of some sort and if it's a hot head, you'll probably talk your way into jail. Yes, even I have had hot-headed cops stop me in other cities folks! Ask me sometime about "Floyd, the wonder midget cop sometime and I'll gladly tell you about that story! Now, if you do agree to a simple conversation and basic questions and find it turning into in a third degree session, there is nothing wrong with saying something to the effect of, "I'm not trying to be rude, but I've answered your questions and I feel anything more is not necessary sir or ma'am. Would you please release me with a warning or citation?" 

In my wife's case, the trooper kept the questions short, sweet and simple and lasted only a few moments. My wife answered them with no problem but in back of her mind thought, "Does this guy think I'm a drug dealer or delivering money to the cartel?" This is where she got wrapped around the axle and felt like they were "too much" moments later after she left. But because my wife obviously knows what I do for a living, she felt "comfortable" with the trooper on the stop and answered him because it was "no big deal" for her. -Hector


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## TexasFlats (Mar 29, 2007)

carryyourbooks said:


> bla, bla, bla.....
> 
> *just sayin'*.


So, *** does "just sayin'" mean - to me it means: I'm going to run my mouth for a little while and at the end, I'm going to say "just sayin" to alleviate myself from the responsibility of my words. Man up - no disclaimers.



five.0 fisher said:


> inconsistent *stories about where the subject is going, coming from*, etc..
> .


Five-O, with all due respect - and I understand why you might ask under certain circumstances - but it isn't anyones business where I am going or where I have come from. This should not be a routine question. I wouldn't want to be disrespectful to a police officer if I get pulled over, but unless I am a suspect of a crime, this question is out of line.

TF
.


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## five.0 fisher (Jan 9, 2005)

TexasFlats said:


> So, *** does "just sayin'" mean - to me it means: I'm going to run my mouth for a little while and at the end, I'm going to say "just sayin" to alleviate myself from the responsibility of my words. Man up - no disclaimers.
> 
> Five-O, with all due respect - and I understand why you might ask under certain circumstances - but it isn't anyones business where I am going or where I have come from. This should not be a routine question. I wouldn't want to be disrespectful to a police officer if I get pulled over, but unless I am a suspect of a crime, this question is out of line.
> 
> ...


 Those questions are only asked when there are certain signs that point to illegal activity.


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## Bobby (May 21, 2004)

The thing is they have the right to ask you all the questions they want to ask. But you don't have to answer any of them.


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## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

TexasFlats said:


> So, *** does "just sayin'" mean - to me it means: I'm going to run my mouth for a little while and at the end, I'm going to say "just sayin" to alleviate myself from the responsibility of my words. Man up - no disclaimers.
> .


"just sayin'" gets on my nerves, too. i'm not even sure what it's supposed to mean. anyway, at the end of the day, the net-net is, well, i'm just sayin. :smile:


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## 2slick (Dec 5, 2008)

five.0 fisher said:


> Those questions are only asked when there are certain signs that point to illegal activity.


I don't think so. You get stopped out of your home area by DPS, get ready for it. Surely that is not one of the "signs" of illegal activity you speak of?


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