# building the perfect duck pond



## BigJim (Nov 7, 2005)

I'm thinking about building a duck pond.... any comments to how to build the perfect one? Ducks we see: Gray ducks, widgeon, teal, ringnecks, spoonies, sometimes canvasbacks...


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## El Capitan de No Fish (Sep 20, 2007)

Where you at? Live Oak county?


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## rubberducky (Mar 19, 2010)

BigJim said:


> I'm thinking about building a duck pond.... any comments to how to build the perfect one? Ducks we see: Gray ducks, widgeon, teal, ringnecks, spoonies, sometimes canvasbacks...


Dang it! Now I'm thinking about doing one to lol
James

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk because Reeltime told me to


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## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

In what region is this duck pond going to be? Where's your nearest permanent water source and what kinds of native vegitation are already present?


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## [email protected] (Jun 25, 2005)

I have sort of done a project like what you are speaking of. I went to college in Arkansas the last 5 years and I worked for a duck call company that owned some private flooded timber and we shot a lot of our DVD's there so one of my jobs was to plant duck food in the flooded timber so that we kept ducks on the place. We would plant rice and millet in the timber holes and when it came duck season there was plenty of food to keep the ducks there and coming back. Having food for the ducks to eat in your pond is key, and it probably doesn't need to be more than two feet deep. I think if you have a great food source in your duck pond then it will continue to get better and better year after year. Even putting some buck brush or some type of structure in the pond will also give the birds a feeling of being hidden and secure which will give them another reason to use your pond. Some of my favorite hunting spots were in big open timber holes with patches of buck brush in them and the ducks always seemed to want to be in the brush compared to the open parts. If you give them the three necessities, food, water, cover then you should have a fantastic duck pond on your hands.


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## Instigator (Jul 6, 2004)

The more edge your pond has the more food it can provide for the birds. Create it with an irregular edge and even a small pond can hold a lot of duck groceries. If you plan to hunt it then plan blind location(s) before you start scraping. All of your species except canvassback are going to be attracted to water 6" to a foot deep that they can tip up in easily. If you can keep your water relatively clear then you'll be able to hold considerable submergent vegetation in that shallow water which seriously multiplies your food supply. That aquatic vegetation isn't as powerful as seed bearing millet and smartweed but it won't run out before the season ends either. If you sculpt the pond bottom so that you do have some deep water, assuming your pond is say more than 5 acres, you can make a home for those rusty headed super ducks too.


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## ddakota (Jun 28, 2009)

better check with TPW also. Regs have changed recently, planted millet is now considered baiting. If its not part of normal farming operations you are limited to what you can plant and hunt over.


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## Spec-Rig.006 (Nov 2, 2007)

ddakota said:


> ... Regs have changed recently, planted millet is now considered baiting ...


Where'd you find that information ... ? We've been debating this since Feb. of last year and can't find verification of this being true. TONS of people we know plant every year.

I'd very seriously like to see this in writing.

Thanks man ...


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## Brad Beaulieu (May 10, 2006)

Spec-Rig.006 said:


> Where'd you find that information ... ? We've been debating this since Feb. of last year and can't find verification of this being true. TONS of people we know plant every year.
> 
> I'd very seriously like to see this in writing.
> 
> Thanks man ...


Good luck. The feds will not even give a definition of baiting. I'm ready to see that law repealed. It's outdated and ineffective. The supplemental feeding of migratory birds can only benfit them and should be allowed. It's stupid that we can feed everything else but ducks and geese and in reality, they probably need it the most.


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## D RAY (Apr 13, 2011)

*Strait from txpwd website*



Brad Beaulieu said:


> Good luck. The feds will not even give a definition of baiting. I'm ready to see that law repealed. It's outdated and ineffective. The supplemental feeding of migratory birds can only benfit them and should be allowed. It's stupid that we can feed everything else but ducks and geese and in reality, they probably need it the most.


*Baiting*

A hunter *may* hunt any migratory game bird:

over standing crops, standing flooded crops and flooded harvested crops;
at any time over natural vegetation that has been manipulated. Natural vegetation does not include planted millet. However, planted millet that grows on its own in subsequent years after the planting is considered natural vegetation;
on or over a normal soil stabilization practice;
on or over lands or areas where seeds or grains have been scattered solely as a result of a normal agricultural practice except waterfowl and cranes may not be hunted where grain or other feed has been distributed or scattered as the result of:
pre-harvest manipulation of an agricultural crop; or
livestock feeding;

over crops or natural vegetation where grain has been inadvertently scattered as a result of entering or leaving a hunting area, placing decoys or retrieving downed birds;
using natural vegetation or crops to conceal a blind, provided that if crops are used to conceal a blind, no grain or other feed is exposed, deposited, distributed or scattered in the process.
A hunter *may not:*

hunt migratory birds with the aid of bait, or on or over any baited area;
hunt over any baited area until 10 days after all baiting materials have been removed;
hunt waterfowl or cranes over manipulated planted millet, unless the millet was planted not less than one year prior to hunting;
hunt waterfowl or cranes over crops that have been manipulated, unless the manipulation is a normal agricultural post-harvesting manipulation in accordance with official recommendations of State Extension Specialists of the Cooperative Extension Service of the U.S. Department of Agriculture.
No person may place or direct the placement of bait on or adjacent to an area for the purpose of causing, inducing or allowing any person to take or attempt to take any migratory game bird by the aid of baiting on or over the baited area.


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## D RAY (Apr 13, 2011)

*decoding*

Just take a Lawyer hunting with you.........


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## Spec-Rig.006 (Nov 2, 2007)

Ok. So you can plant, you just can't hunt it that year (I knew this), funny thing is that only millet is mentioned - that leaves a lot better forbes for you to plant that you can hunt prior to one year. Hell, judging by this ... you might as well just bait the holy hell out of the hole and then wait 10 days to hunt it.

400 pounds of corn is way cheaper and way easier than planting.

:slimer:



D RAY said:


> *Baiting*
> 
> A hunter *may* hunt any migratory game bird:
> 
> ...


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## ddakota (Jun 28, 2009)

Ask your Game Warden or as said, have your lawyer with you when you hunt. The problem for us lay people is in the interpretation of the rules. The Feds consider millet planting a Food Plot. If you go to the USFWS Website and read....

http://www.fws.gov/le/HuntFish/waterfowl_baiting.htm

See the section on food plots. As explained to me by my local game warden, their new interpretation is any millet planted this year is "fresh". If it comes back on its own next year, its not fresh and would be considered natural. Seems awful restrictive, but he said if we planted millet around our ponds and hunted it the same year, he would have to write us up. He did not agree with it, but said it was the new interpretation.

*Wildlife Food Plots*
You cannot legally hunt waterfowl over *freshly* planted wildlife food plots where grain or seed has been distributed, scattered, or exposed because these plots are not normal agricultural plantings or normal soil stabilization practices. Wildlife food plots may be considered a normal agricultural practice, but they do not meet the definition of a normal agricultural planting, harvest, post-harvest manipulation, or a normal soil stabilization practice.


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## water turkey2 (Nov 30, 2009)

You can hunt over planted millet, you just can't manipulate it. We've been over this 100 times.


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## Spec-Rig.006 (Nov 2, 2007)

water turkey2 said:


> You can hunt over planted millet, you just can't manipulate it. We've been over this 100 times.


That's what I thought and/good, because I've been dish-ragging birds over planted millet all season long.

Are you a lawyer ... ? You're hunting with me ...


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## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

Thats kind of how I read into it.... You can plant it all you want, but after planting, you cant touch it....

And no, you cant start trying to spread it and grow it the week you hunt your honey hole.... lol

PS... Spec, let me know when you do the corn thing... I would like to watch that fandango... haha... 

PPSS.... just in case, the 10 days doesnt start until the last bit of corn is gone.... not when you dump your mountain of gold in the slough.


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## El Capitan de No Fish (Sep 20, 2007)

FYI - game wardens have access to helicopters. They can and will drop right in on your spread looking for said "mountains of gold", then give you a thumbs up as they fly away....if you're legal.


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## Spec-Rig.006 (Nov 2, 2007)

BigJim said:


> I'm thinking about building a duck pond.... any comments to how to build the perfect one? Ducks we see: Gray ducks, widgeon, teal, ringnecks, spoonies, sometimes canvasbacks...


For the spoooooonz, ringers and cans ... you might want to stock that bad boy with leeches, snails and minners ... !!!!



justinsfa said:


> PS... Spec, let me know when you do the corn thing... I would like to watch that fandango... haha...


Cool man ... ! Juts give me your gate key and I'll let you know when I'm showing up with the hopper truck and the crop duster, we're doin' this one Oklahomo style ... !


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## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

Spec-Rig.006 said:


> For the spoooooonz, ringers and cans ... you might want to stock that bad boy with leeches, snails and minners ... !!!!
> 
> Cool man ... ! Juts give me your gate key and I'll let you know when I'm showing up with the hopper truck and the crop duster,* we're doin' this one Oklahomo style ...* !


That line alone just made me retract my offer.... and frankly, made me uncomfortable.


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## Spec-Rig.006 (Nov 2, 2007)

Spec-Rig.006 said:


> For the spoooooonz, ringers and cans ... you might want to stock that bad boy with leeches, snails and minners ... !!!!
> 
> Cool man ... ! Juts give me your gate key and I'll let you know when I'm showing up *with the hopper truck and the crop duster*, we're doin' this one Oklahomo style ... !


_THAT'S the part you should have been concentrating on ... pretty sure the only guy here that wants to see you pantless is Mendenhall ... ! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ..._


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## DuckMendenhall (Nov 5, 2007)

I would drain the "pond", disk it, plant it, watch it grow, and then flood (standing crops), and watch the birds pour in. What the issue is, that there is a black and white line that you can cross while getting ready for bird season (like mowing the proposed area). If it were me, I would not touch it, the birds will forage for food, it will be completely legal via the rules.

Or better yet, contact your Regional DU Biologist, and they can set you up...basically donate your land for wetlands conservation. They will send you a packet full of valuable information.


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## DuckMendenhall (Nov 5, 2007)

Spec-Rig.006 said:


> _THAT'S the part you should have been concentrating on ... pretty sure the only guy here that wants to see you pantless is Mendenhall ... ! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ..._


You had to turn it south bound...you're killing me.


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## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

Good god! First you go bird dogging some poor random fingernail painting stranger, and now this.... We need to get you some help.... maybe in the form of Heartbreakers or the Ritz..... or even better, The Ocean!! Galveston's Finest!


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## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

DuckMendenhall said:


> You had to turn it *south bound*...you're killing me.


Ew.


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## Mojo281 (Sep 7, 2006)

Just feed the cows corn during duck season and take them to slaughter after...


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## The Hawk (Apr 20, 2009)

Call Ducks Unlimited. If your property is a good candidate, they will design it for you and cost share on most of the cost of it.


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## BigJim (Nov 7, 2005)

*thanks for input*

what other kinds of feed could i plant? I heard smartweed and rice.... anything else? And this is on a deer lease in West Texas South of I-10... right on the Nueces River. Not a lot of big bodies of water around, most of the little ponds around the place will hold ducks when it gets cold up north, but one is not favored over the others.


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## FINNFOWLER (Sep 2, 2004)

Dig a shallow hole about an acre in size fill it with a little water then, this is the important part, throw a few tons of corn in it and....Wait!


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## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

BigJim said:


> what other kinds of feed could i plant? I heard smartweed and rice.... anything else? And this is on a deer lease in West Texas South of I-10... right on the Nueces River. Not a lot of big bodies of water around, most of the little ponds around the place will hold ducks when it gets cold up north, but one is not favored over the others.


Problem with hunting areas that dont have large bodies of water around is that by building a sizeable lake/pond,you end up bringing all your birds in to your pond and creating a roost in your hunting spot. This is NOT GOOD. This place should only be for providing food and water...

1) I wouldnt worry about doing anything for them for cover. Thats just going to increase your chances of forming a roost in your spot. Keep it open with the exception of a few stands of grass (I would go with layout blinds so you can switch with the wind AND keep out the snakes).

2) I like smartweed as it is a good hearty plant and will also provide plenty of cover.

3) You are going to be totally screwed no matter what if this drought keeps up.

4) You can over hunt places out there reallllllly quick.... be prepared, cuz the other folks on the place will want to hunt it as well. Hunting it more than once a week (maybe even more than once every 2 weeks) is going to ruin it.

5) If there are only a few ducks holding on your tanks, then you are lacking food.... reason why is that you will know when that tank has food in it.... because there should be hundreds of birds on it.

6) Hunting out there is fast a furious at LST, then is almost completely finished as the ducks find their pond and loaf around all day. There are a few places that you can pattern their food-to-water schedule, but this mainly involves them feeding in non-aquatic environments, such as fields and such. Be careful not to expect too much.... Dont get me wrong, its great shooting... its just different. Beggars cant be choosers, so start firing ASAP at LST.... dont wait for them to pile in there as more and more groups come. One volley and your barrells will be silent for the rest of the morning.

I am just rambling now and getting way off track, but to keep it basic, do not overhunt it, plant smart weed, and make sure it has water.

Heres a little West Texas duck hunting eye candy I took last week. (PS... this pond was in the general vicinity of a year round food source and held water throughout the drought. The pond itself was only used for getting their water, as it had no food source on its banks or in the water).

Have fun and blast away!


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## Mojo281 (Sep 7, 2006)

Smartweed is deadly early in the season, but you have to plant it the winter before bc it takes a full year to germinate...

Planting winter wheat out around the edge of your pond will help for late season forage... Ducks and geese tend to switch to "hotter" food sources as it gets colder!

Keep in mind, if this place runs cattle everything you plant will be gone long before the ducks can find it!!!


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## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

Mojo281 said:


> Smartweed is deadly early in the season, but you have to plant it the winter before bc it takes a full year to germinate...
> 
> Planting winter wheat out around the edge of your pond will help for late season forage... *Ducks and geese tend to switch to "hotter" food sources as it gets colder!*
> 
> Keep in mind, if this place runs cattle everything you plant will be gone long before the ducks can find it!!!


Put down the DU magazine.... haha

Good point on the smartweed, cows and WW. WW is easy to mess with.


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## Spec-Rig.006 (Nov 2, 2007)

justinsfa said:


> Good god! First you go bird dogging some poor random fingernail painting stranger, and now this.... We need to get you some help.... maybe in the form of Heartbreakers or the Ritz..... or even better, The Ocean!! Galveston's Finest!


Galveston's finest distributor of trips to the clinic more like. Naw man, let's just go slam hogs (I MEAN FISH) ... ha ha ha ha ha ... besides, I found this out in the marsh a couple weeks ago looking for a boat ride ...


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## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

Cash, gas or ***.... no free rides.


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## wennis1 (Nov 5, 2008)

hahahaha


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## Mojo281 (Sep 7, 2006)

justinsfa said:


> Put down the DU magazine.... haha
> 
> Good point on the smartweed, cows and WW. WW is easy to mess with.


Pro, that's just the proverbial "tip of the iceberg" when it comes to my knowledge about the duck! I haven't been a member of DU for years!!


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## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

Mojo281 said:


> Pro, that's just the proverbial "tip of the iceberg" when it comes to my knowledge about the duck! I haven't been a member of DU for years!!


Reason why I say is that the "hot food source" comment was almost identical to one of the main articles in this months issue....


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## Whipray (Mar 12, 2007)

Mojo281 said:


> Smartweed is deadly early in the season, but you have to plant it the winter before bc it takes a full year to germinate...
> 
> Planting winter wheat out around the edge of your pond will help for late season forage... Ducks and geese tend to switch to "hotter" food sources as it gets colder!
> 
> Keep in mind, if this place runs cattle everything you plant will be gone long before the ducks can find it!!!


I've got some family land I hunt in Llano county. It's about a mile as the duck flies from Lake Buchanan. We've got three ponds on the property (1,000 acres) that will range from 20' puddles, to several acres with water all the way up into the creek bed depending on rainfall. We also run cattle on the property. We get a decent number of ducks, mostly Gadwalls, but a few Teal, Widgeon, and the occasional Mallard. Is there anything I can do under those circumstances to improve the tanks for hunting? (short of putting a deer feeder close by  )


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## seabo (Jun 29, 2006)

The Hawk said:


> Call Ducks Unlimited. If your property is a good candidate, they will design it for you and cost share on most of the cost of it.


 thats the land they let their members hunt, right? for their donations and dues ?


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## Brad Beaulieu (May 10, 2006)

seabo said:


> thats the land they let their members hunt, right? for their donations and dues ?


No that's not correct. It's still up to the landowner how they lease or use the land.


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## Mojo281 (Sep 7, 2006)

Whipray said:


> I've got some family land I hunt in Llano county. It's about a mile as the duck flies from Lake Buchanan. We've got three ponds on the property (1,000 acres) that will range from 20' puddles, to several acres with water all the way up into the creek bed depending on rainfall. We also run cattle on the property. We get a decent number of ducks, mostly Gadwalls, but a few Teal, Widgeon, and the occasional Mallard. Is there anything I can do under those circumstances to improve the tanks for hunting? (short of putting a deer feeder close by  )


Cattle is the one thing that will ruin pretty any duck food you would want to plant, but unfortunately most landowners need cattle for the ag tax and as source of revenue... The only way around it is to plant so much that the cattle can't eat it all or depending on how far your electrical source is, you could install an electrical fence to keep the cattle out. Both would be an expensive venture...

Also... Most true duck ponds have a water control system and a source to flood. In a perfect scenario, you need to be able to drain the pond so you can plant and control the water level as the plants grow. Too little or too much water will kill all food sources discussed above!


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## Mojo281 (Sep 7, 2006)

Whipray said:


> I've got some family land I hunt in Llano county. It's about a mile as the duck flies from Lake Buchanan. We've got three ponds on the property (1,000 acres) that will range from 20' puddles, to several acres with water all the way up into the creek bed depending on rainfall. We also run cattle on the property. We get a decent number of ducks, mostly Gadwalls, but a few Teal, Widgeon, and the occasional Mallard. Is there anything I can do under those circumstances to improve the tanks for hunting? (short of putting a deer feeder close by  )


And on top of all... In your case, it doesn't help that the LCRA doesn't allow public hunting on Lake Buchanan. Basically creating a 22,000 acre refuge for the birds.


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## seabo (Jun 29, 2006)

Brad Beaulieu said:


> No that's not correct. It's still up to the landowner how they lease or use the land.


so let me see if i got this right, du takes the money i donate to help waterfowl by building ponds and sloughs on private property that only the landowner or his leasees get to hunt. gotcha...


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## Tealman (Sep 20, 2005)

OK, back to building the perfect duck pond.


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## Outearly (Nov 17, 2009)

*Build Your Own Duck Pond!*

When I was about 13, Field and Stream or Sports Afield came out with an article titled Build Your Own Duck Pond.

The article detailed how to use a stick of dynamite, diesel, and fertilizer to make a bomb big sufficient to blow a hole in mother earth to make a duck pond.

The pictures accompanying the article showed the set-up, the explosion (looked like dirt flew two hundred yards straight up), and the hole (gigantic) that would fill up on its own in Kansas or Nebraska or wherever they set it off.

I was 13 (completely bulletproof and booger-eating dumb when it came to safety and common sense) and I still thought, "That is the most dangerous thing I've ever seen, and I can't believe they printed that in a magazine".

This thread took me way back in time - and made me glad I didn't try the recipe


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## mullethead00 (May 31, 2010)

*NSA*



Outearly said:


> When I was about 13, Field and Stream or Sports Afield came out with an article titled Build Your Own Duck Pond.
> 
> The article detailed how to use a stick of dynamite, diesel, and fertilizer to make a bomb big sufficient to blow a hole in mother earth to make a duck pond.
> 
> ...


....I'd now like to welcome the CIA and NSA to the forum. Be sure to read all the rules first.


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## Brad Beaulieu (May 10, 2006)

seabo said:


> so let me see if i got this right, du takes the money i donate to help waterfowl by building ponds and sloughs on private property that only the landowner or his leasees get to hunt. gotcha...


Yep, more or less that's it.


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## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

seabo said:


> so let me see if i got this right, du takes the money i donate to help waterfowl by building ponds and sloughs on private property that only the landowner or his leasees get to hunt. gotcha...


So lemme get this straight.... with your $25 donation, you are expecting an annual pass to hunt all these properties across the US?


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## TeamJefe (Mar 20, 2007)

its not for the hunters, its for the birds, also called conservation


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## Brad Beaulieu (May 10, 2006)

TeamJefe said:


> its not for the hunters, its for the birds, also called conservation


Exactly.


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## Spec-Rig.006 (Nov 2, 2007)

justinsfa said:


> So lemme get this straight.... with your $25 donation, you are expecting an annual pass to hunt all these properties across the US?


NO. But I do expect to be able to hunt the corn fed birds on the Refuge with Foiles ... just sayin' ...


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## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

Spec-Rig.006 said:


> NO. But I do expect to be able to hunt the corn fed birds on the Refuge with Foiles ... just sayin' ...


Oh, he is learning about corn holes as we speak....


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## Mojo281 (Sep 7, 2006)

justinsfa said:


> So lemme get this straight.... with your $25 donation, you are expecting an annual pass to hunt all these properties across the US?


They can take that $25 and shove it!! My problem is that all that money is invested up north and short stops the southern states... Wonder why we end up traveling further north each year??


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## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

Mojo281 said:


> They can take that $25 and shove it!! My problem is that all that money is invested up north and short stops the southern states... Wonder why we end up traveling further north each year??


Blame it on Mother Nature... not DU....

DU can have a million projects, but if the water freezes, not one of them is worth anything.

We had another warm winter here.... the birds we usually see are still in Arkansas.... A) Because there is plenty of food still (non-DU provided) and B) because the water is unfrozen

Check out how warm it is this year across the northern states:

http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/national/

Hell, its gonna be in the 80s this weekend... and we have yet to have a decent freeze down here.... and January is halfway over. If they didnt run out of food and water in Canada, they wouldnt bother to travel to these "shortstopping" places either.

No doubt, the birds are stopping short, but if you wanna stop that, you need to go tell all the farmers in Ark to stop growing rice.

And you end up travelling North every year because you are too **** picky like me and dont wanna shoot the same old coastal birds. Dont try to pass the blame.... haha


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## Mojo281 (Sep 7, 2006)

Ummm, Arkansas and Texas are in different flyways... I know it's not all DU but they have started using water agitators and ice eaters in DU projects up north, creating a scenario where birds don't have to fly south when cold temps alone used to push them our direction! I'm all for the conservation of nesting lands up north, but it's gone way beyond that!!


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## Spec-Rig.006 (Nov 2, 2007)

Just saw this ... probably not helping either. Decreased pressure eh ... ? You hosers ... ?


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## Mojo281 (Sep 7, 2006)

I'm willing to bet that all the BS involved when crossing international borders to hunt has affected the number of people willing to go to Canada... And all the Frenchies!

I'm down, next October??


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## shauntexex (Dec 12, 2007)

o ya paking it up to head to saskatoon


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## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

Mojo281 said:


> Ummm, Arkansas and Texas are in different flyways... I know it's not all DU but they have started using water agitators and ice eaters in DU projects up north, creating a scenario where birds don't have to fly south when cold temps alone used to push them our direction! I'm all for the conservation of nesting lands up north, but it's gone way beyond that!!


I hunt East Texas mostly, so my areas may be a little different than yalls... but dependant on which flyway map you use for reference, you will have to decide if your birds are coming down the Miss or the Central... Since its kind of a gray area, I just go by the Miss.

The ice eater debate has come, gone and come again... Personally, I think its kind of ridiculous to think that a handful of ice eaters are going to wreak havoc on the migration... You are talking about trying to keep enough open water for tens of millions of birds to use... and they arent all following the same flight path. A group of 100k birds is going to ravage the nearby food source fairly quickly.... when they do, they will move, whether they have water or not.

Even if there is open water, snow and ice will cover a food source thus pushing the birds further down to find an accessible food source.

You have been to the PH Im sure.... how come those birds all came down there and not further, in December none the less? Why? because they have food and water.... I've driven all over that place and not seen not one ice eater.... much less an assortment of DU projects. Who do we blame for those birds not coming further South? Those birds sit on city ponds for 2 solid months.... and DU has nothing to do with that...


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## Spec-Rig.006 (Nov 2, 2007)

Mojo281 said:


> I'm willing to bet that all the BS involved when crossing international borders to hunt has affected the number of people willing to go to Canada... And all the Frenchies!
> 
> I'm down, next October??


"Instead of" or "for" those pesky black duck ... ? I'm not going up there to shoot ugly-eggshell mowwards ... !


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## Mojo281 (Sep 7, 2006)

justinsfa said:


> I hunt East Texas mostly, so my areas may be a little different than yalls... but dependant on which flyway map you use for reference, you will have to decide if your birds are coming down the Miss or the Central... Since its kind of a gray area, I just go by the Miss.
> 
> The ice eater debate has come, gone and come again... Personally, I think its kind of ridiculous to think that a handful of ice eaters are going to wreak havoc on the migration... You are talking about trying to keep enough open water for tens of millions of birds to use... and they arent all following the same flight path. A group of 100k birds is going to ravage the nearby food source fairly quickly.... when they do, they will move, whether they have water or not.
> 
> ...


I'm not talking about the Panhandle when I say up north! Yes I hunt the Panhadle and I also have never seen a DU project out there, but then again, you can't see all the wetlands from roadways...

The projects I am refering to are in Kansas & Oklahoma (which are in our flyway) and I could take you right to a handful of them myself in the few areas I have hunted!! I understand that snow and ice will push birds, but when they have open water they can wait for the fields to thaw. Seen it myself, so has Brian and Shaun... Birds congragate on the open water and wait out the freeze and then hit the fields. Waterfowl are all about energy, it's either find source of energy or conserve energy... Why would they fly 500 miles south and burn all that energy when they can rest for a few days on open water and hit the fields when they thaw?? Seen this in both Kansas and Oklahoma!! No reason for birds to be there other then open water... Seen the birds leave open water only to find that the fields are frozen and they go right back to open water and sleep.

Again, I never said that DU is responsible for the entire migration, but they do enough to affect what mother nature would otherwise allow NATURALLY!

I do support what they do for nesting (putting back what man took) and bird studies... They start playing God when they keep water open...


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## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

Mojo281 said:


> I'm not talking about the Panhandle when I say up north! Yes I hunt the Panhadle and I also have never seen a DU project out there, but then again, you can't see all the wetlands from roadways...
> 
> The projects I am refering to are in Kansas & Oklahoma (which are in our flyway) and I could take you right to a handful of them myself in the few areas I have hunted!! I understand that snow and ice will push birds, but when they have open water they can wait for the fields to thaw. Seen it myself, so has Brian and Shaun... Birds congragate on the open water and wait out the freeze and then hit the fields. Waterfowl are all about energy, it's either find source of energy or conserve energy... Why would they fly 500 miles south and burn all that energy when they can rest for a few days on open water and hit the fields when they thaw?? Seen this in both Kansas and Oklahoma!! No reason for birds to be there other then open water... Seen the birds leave open water only to find that the fields are frozen and they go right back to open water and sleep.
> 
> ...


So who do we blame for the rivers and lakes that dont freeze.... ever.... naturally....

With all the talk of the ice eaters... how come no one has ever taken a picture of one? I find it more probable that A) someone is starting rumors or B) someone mistook some water kept open by birds themselves as the work of an "ice eater"... My point pictured below.... A large group of birds on the only unfrozen water in a 4 counties... The only way it wouldn't freeze up was due to the birds body heat themselves.... although, it looks like there is something else keeping it open (as the temps were in the single digits for a week and the surrounding ice was thick enough to walk across).










When humans started changing the landscape, the whole NATURAL aspect of everything changed.... folks who duck hunt just choose to find a scapegoat when they dont have the results that THEY want...

Birds stopping in the PH is just like birds stopping anywhere else in the country... they lay up on city ponds, lakes and unfrozen playas and stay there til they HAVE to leave.... be it weather, lack of food, or hunting pressure.

I dont have deep ties in DU, but I am a former committee member and dealt with all this nonsense 10 years ago.... not pointing fingers, but my local experience started when Delta showed up in the area, and it seemed to be more of a membership drive filled with rumors...

Do I blame DU for there not being ducks on the East side of Houston anymore?? Nooooo, there isnt rice here anymore.... thats why there arent ducks here... It has nothing to do with DU providing shortstopping areas... I mean, to be honest, this area cant really support a ton of ducks in our drought condition anyway! Who do we blame that on?

Of course ducks are hanging out on the refuges and DU projects longer up north with these mild temps... but I would rather be facing that problem then not having any ducks at all...


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## Mojo281 (Sep 7, 2006)

We are totally hi-jacking this thread... Lack of rice production and peanut farming has greatly impacted all of Texas no doubt. I am speaking in more general terms, not just about a drought year!! I'm not all frustrated about my harvests and I am not blaming DU for any of my bad hunts... I'm just saying that DU's involvement is creating a general pattern that will only get worse.

Arkansas and Oklahoma does so much more for birds then Texas ever has!! Arkansas manages their public timber thru managing water and Oklahoma drops hundreds of tons of millet seed along major rivers and reservoirs via plane... All impacting the migration by creating habitat and food sources! 

I'm saying that one ice eater will turn to 100 ice eaters and DU will have started the trend!! You can't see an ice eater as it's under water... However, you can see the generator or power source going to the pond!

Much to be discussed over a beer or fishing!:cheers:


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## seabo (Jun 29, 2006)

justinsfa said:


> So lemme get this straight.... with your $25 donation, you are expecting an annual pass to hunt all these properties across the US?


 no just clarifying the facts for any future donors....so you're fine with them taking donations and building ponds for a select few?


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## Greenwing7 (Oct 10, 2011)

Just found this thread 
as a life long duck hunter I'll see what I can contribute.
This is how we have our duck club set up in IL
Building the perfect duck pond, you'll need some way to control water levels, we have a ditch that runs down the middle of our "lakes" one is 120 acres the other is 80 acres.
The water level is controlled in the summer by an 8" electric sump pump, assuming the river doesn't flood. We plant corn when the water levels allow us to dry the "lakes" out. If we can't get corn in, we have millet flown in. There is also volunteer smartweed, milo, and millett. The years with corn are by far the best with some where in the neighborhood of 5000 mallards on the lakes during the peak of the migration. We flood the lakes a few weeks before the season either by opening the tubes if the river's water allows for free water or we will pump through a 16" pump powered by a semi motor. Hunting is from pits. We mow/spray the vegetation in areas around the pits prior to it developing seed pods. 
As far as DU putting money toward the building of duck ponds, all this habitat is used on the migration back north to the breeding grounds and its not uncommon for us to have loads of ducks in the spring as they travel back north. 
Open water-Power plant lakes are the biggest reason that there is unnatural open water, I grew up on one and saw thousands of ducks/geese every winter that never had to leave because of the open water. Made goose hunting around the lake really good tho.
Shooting birds at our club is wed, friday, saturday, and sunday, not past 1. This really helped improve the hunting and the retention of birds over the course of the season. 
The average depth of water is only knee to waist deep so when it gets cold we freeze and the ducks move on. 
hope some of this info helps you out in your pursuit of the perfect duck pond


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## DuckMendenhall (Nov 5, 2007)

I would have to agree with Agriculture reasons for birds short stopping...yes, hunting pressure has a lot to due with birds dispersing throughout the season. But if the populations are not here to begin with, of course you will see less and less each year.

What would you do if you had land in the OK, Kansas area...I know what I would do...I would set the "Duck pond" (so I did not hyjack the thread) to hold birds until April...just sayin'. The only thing you can do from here, is set it up to hold your birds through out migration up through courting...


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## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

seabo said:


> no just clarifying the facts for any future donors....so you're fine with them taking donations and building ponds for a select few?


Not sure if you have priced land lately, but it would be impossible to take your measily $25 and purchase land to improve. Their impact on conservation would be a fraction OF A fraction of what it is if they flat out purchased the property.... Therefore, they work with landowners to improve their properties and incur no land expense. Not to mention, not all wetland property that meets the criteria for habitat improvement is even up for sale.

Whether it is to be hunted or not is up to the landowner. But even if it is hunted, the benefit of an improved habitat is greater than no habitat at all.

And claiming that an annual DU membership is spent on improving a "Select few's" hunting is far from the fact that you claim....

On the other hand, do you think its fair that anybody who DOESN'T contribute to their organization should be allowed to hunt within 5 miles of any of their projects. I mean, why should you reap the benefits of my donation?

PS... theres alot more to it than "building ponds." Alot of it is restoring wetlands that were altered and ruined by us in the first place.


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## TeamJefe (Mar 20, 2007)

I don't know what yall mean the ducks are short stopping. I have more ducks than I can shake a stick at, I'm trying as hard as I can to kill every one of them but I can't seem to put a dent in them!!! 

By the way...thanks for taking a thread that could have been beneficial to a lot of people (and a lot of ducks) and turning it into a DU hate-fest.


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## Mojo281 (Sep 7, 2006)

Greenwing7 said:


> Just found this thread
> as a life long duck hunter I'll see what I can contribute.
> This is how we have our duck club set up in IL
> Building the perfect duck pond, you'll need some way to control water levels, we have a ditch that runs down the middle of our "lakes" one is 120 acres the other is 80 acres.
> ...


Now that is a setup!!

And Jefe... We already gave plenty of good information! I'm sure you are loaded down with spoonies and merganzers, we leave those birds alone for guys like you!!


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## Spec-Rig.006 (Nov 2, 2007)

justinsfa said:


> ... When humans started changing the landscape, the whole NATURAL aspect of everything changed ... folks who duck hunt just choose to find a scapegoat when they dont have the results that THEY want ...


We got to be talking about another crew ... 5 of us are sitting on about 635 birds this year - and less than 20% of that is trash ...


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## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

Greenwing7 said:


> Just found this thread
> as a life long duck hunter I'll see what I can contribute.
> This is how we have our duck club set up in IL
> Building the perfect duck pond, you'll need some way to control water levels, we have a ditch that runs down the middle of our "lakes" one is 120 acres the other is 80 acres.
> ...


Dude... that isnt a pond.

THATS A DUCK PARADISE!!!!


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## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

Spec-Rig.006 said:


> We got to be talking about another crew ... 5 of us are sitting on about 635 birds this year - and less than 20% of that is trash ...


5 of us??? What, are you culling out the partners that have crappy numbers??? hahaha

Also, yall went up North to where they have top secret ice eaters and are dumping millet out of stealth fighters... so those birds don't count...


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## Mojo281 (Sep 7, 2006)

Okay Justin, you can stop playing Mr. Big D**K in the locker room...

Everyone want to know the PERFECT duck pond?? Google "Paul's Pond' in Burbank, Washington!! Nough said!


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## Spec-Rig.006 (Nov 2, 2007)

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ... ! They'd have had to use a Boeing B-29 to dump as much grain as we hunted. We were rolling our ankles on insurance claims after every volley. They count ... ! Oh yeah, they count ... !


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## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

Mojo281 said:


> Okay Justin, you can stop playing Mr. Big D**K in the locker room...
> 
> Everyone want to know the PERFECT duck pond?? Google "Paul's Pond' in Burbank, Washington!! Nough said!


Dont get your little feelings hurt Joe.... I'm just pointing out a bunch of bad info posted up by some prudes looking for excuses and spreading rumors....

If DU spent all of its money down here in Texas, all the Northern states would be upset.... somebody is always going to feel mistreated. Hell, then some folks on here would say that their property is getting shunned because DU made somebody else's property better....

No one should bite the hand... Without organizations like DU, DW, and even an array of treehugger groups, its safe to say that our waterfowl population would be in great danger.


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## AlvinDucksUnlimited (Jun 7, 2006)

*DU*

Sorry BigJim your simple post got high jacked.

Im not getting in the middle of the whole DU arguement, but all I know is we contacted DU for our piece of land(Brazoria County) to look into a conservation easement / Texas coastal wetland project program. All of our ponds were exisitng but needed help on water control structures, levees, wells etc. They did not hesitat to come meet with us. DU is looking for more private land owners to build wintering areas along the Texas Coast. Needless to say $150,000 dollars later we had much needed improvements on our piece of land. DU paid for 75% of all of our improvement for exchange that we put water in each year and not drain the water until Apr-May to help ensure the migrating birds had adequate habitiat on thier way back North.


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## DuckMendenhall (Nov 5, 2007)

axsbilly said:


> Sorry BigJim your simple post got high jacked.
> 
> Im not getting in the middle of the whole DU arguement, but all I know is we contacted DU for our piece of land(Brazoria County) to look into a conservation easement / Texas coastal wetland project program. All of our ponds were exisitng but needed help on water control structures, levees, wells etc. They did not hesitat to come meet with us. DU is looking for more private land owners to build wintering areas along the Texas Coast. Needless to say $150,000 dollars later we had much needed improvements on our piece of land. DU paid for 75% of all of our improvement for exchange that we put water in each year and not drain the water until Apr-May to help ensure the migrating birds had adequate habitiat on thier way back North.


That is exactly what the organization is about...well said and well put. They will fund up to 75%-80% of the bill. All they ask is that the water stays there..did they ask you to make sure you had food? Or, did they ask you to do a survey sometime during the migration, or have a DU biologist come out?


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## AlvinDucksUnlimited (Jun 7, 2006)

DuckMendenhall said:


> That is exactly what the organization is about...well said and well put. They will fund up to 75%-80% of the bill. All they ask is that the water stays there..did they ask you to make sure you had food? Or, did they ask you to do a survey sometime during the migration, or have a DU biologist come out?


All of the above. I had already had a great food source in place. All the new water control structures just help me improve whats already there. In my experience, the best thing to do is implement the most natural vegitation as you can..


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## TeamJefe (Mar 20, 2007)

Mojo281 said:


> Now that is a setup!!
> 
> And Jefe... We already gave plenty of good information! I'm sure you are loaded down with spoonies and merganzers, we leave those birds alone for guys like you!!


Oh we don't have an mergs, spoonies yes, also pintail, gadwall, all kinds of teal, wood ducks, a few greenheads, mottled ducks...so yeah lots of trash

but in all reality if you want a good duck pond, just dump 2 tons of corn in the mofo


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## Tealman (Sep 20, 2005)

well said axsbilly, hope everyone has a great last 2 weeks of the season, i have had a great one with the old dog MONGO until a friend stole my storm widgeon!!! i still have trouble sleeping at nights.


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## seabo (Jun 29, 2006)

hijack? the perfect duck pond is one thats paid for by someone else in my book. jefe if you need more heres a list
1st you need money
2nd you need food corn beans millet grass heck even cotton
3rd you need water, shallow for puddlers, deep for divers
4th and last but the most important, ducks. you need to be in a flyway or close to some public lake with all the newest du recruits 
oh yea and 5th sfa i bet your facebook page is full of green you shot off your du ponds lol go get you some public then you might get some credit from me pic heavy, until then your lips move but i can't hear what your sayin.


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## TeamJefe (Mar 20, 2007)

oh I didn't start the thread, i already have perfect duck ponds

and I don't hunt public unless its the bay, in fact, i keep all the birds in cages, fatten them up all year, and shoot them as i release them!!! thats why the spoonies I shoot taste so gooooood!!!


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## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

seabo said:


> hijack? the perfect duck pond is one thats paid for by someone else in my book. jefe if you need more heres a list
> 1st you need money
> 2nd you need food corn beans millet grass heck even cotton
> 3rd you need water, shallow for puddlers, deep for divers
> ...


Pshish... Facebook??? Facebook is for losers..... Myspace is where I post all my giant piles of greenheads that I shoot off my DU ponds...


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