# HS Rail - This is going to effect lots of Texas people



## batmaninja (Jul 15, 2010)

_The legal battle over Texas Centralâ€™s proposed high-speed rail between Houston and Dallas has begun. In a lawsuit obtained by Bisnow, Texas Central Rail has filed for a temporary injunction against landowners attempting to stop examination and surveying by the rail company on their property.

The high-speed rail between Houston and Dallas was destined to be a contentious legal battle from the outset. No matter the route, it will pass through dozens of private parcels of land. While many expect the eminent domain issues surrounding the project to be the real battle, it now appears early shots are being fired over surveying.

Defendants have denied TCR officials entry to their property to survey. *TCR claims it has the absolute statutory right to examine and survey real property. By law, TCR is not required to provide notice to landowners or seek permission for surveying.* In court documents, TCR says it sought written permission before entering property anyway in an effort to respect the private property rights of landowners. Playing nice hasnâ€™t worked out for TCR and now it's seeking a temporary injunction to leave no doubt about its right to enter defendants' property for surveying. In the lawsuit, TCR claims two separate statutes provide it the power to conduct the necessary surveys: Section 131.013(b) and Section 11.051(a) of the Texas Transportation Code. TCR also makes the case that since it's vested with the power of eminent domain, it has the right to conduct surveys and be awarded injunctive relief. TCR claims there has not been a single case in which a condemning authority was denied injunctive relief to conduct surveys.

Prominent Austin-based eminent domain lawyer Luke Ellis (who represents the Harris County property owners) thinks TCR's condemnation authority isnâ€™t that simple. He tells us since TCR is not government affiliated, itâ€™s technically condemnation, not eminent domain. By law, condemnation is subject to four restraints: public use, public necessity, just or adequate compensations, and due process.

Luke says thereâ€™s also a legitimate question as to whether rail statues on the books apply to high-speed rail. The statutes were contemplated and written with freight and low-speed passenger rail in mind. As Texas Central has said itself, it's a whole different kind of rail operator. Luke believes those guidelines' ability to govern HSR are questionable.

State Rep. Byron Cook (R-Corsicana) says the decision on whether to grant HSR eminent domain power is one that should be made today by the legislature. It should not be labeled into a definition created over 100 years ago to deal with a very different type of railroad, in a very different time in our state's history.

Another major issue facing TCR is a potential public use challenge. Public use is difficult to define. No hard and fast rule has ever been drafted; instead, each case is determined on its own merits. A 2005 statute tightened the definition but exempted transportation projects from the update. The price and accessibility of the project will have to be examined to determine the project's public use potential. The battle over surveying rights is the first in what will likely be a long legal war. Texas Central knew it would face firm opposition and tells us it's prepared for the ensuing issues. The high-speed rail will be one of the fastest in the world, but looks like it'll be a slow process to get there._

Read more at: https://www.bisnow.com/houston/news...61720?utm_source=CopyShare&utm_medium=Browser

And the lawsuits start. If I were a property owner on the planned route I wouldn't even dream of giving these yahoos access to my private property. I cant imagine that these rail folks have done much business in Texas with their approach. And I do not see this rail making it through the many legal hurdles it is going to face. :texasflag


----------



## MEGABITE (May 21, 2004)

*How much will a ticket cost?*

We expect ticket prices to be very competitive with those of airlines.

Uhh, OK. I think I'll just fly instead.


----------



## MarkU (Jun 3, 2013)

Dig pit.
Fill pit with money.


----------



## jboehm (May 2, 2009)

Don't need and don't want should be the only test necessary to determine this case.


----------



## Tortuga (May 21, 2004)

Had this same fight back in the '50s with Eisenhower's interstate freeway system..

Personally..I LIKE the freeway system.. Anybody old enough here to remember the old Galveston highway ..versus the Gulf Freeway....LOL

Course..I got no dawg in this fight.. Not going thru my back yard....


----------



## Stuart (May 21, 2004)

I think a high speed train will be a dud. You're going to have to show up to the station early. They are saying a trip will take 90 minutes. Then when you get there you are going to have to rent a car etc. I'm thinking you'll save an hour at the most and besides, it isn't going to stop at the Buc-ees in Madisonville.


----------



## ChuChu (Jan 23, 2010)

Just like all the other mass transportation schemes before, it will not work! Texans don't work like New York, and Texans love their cars too much.


----------



## ShadMan (May 21, 2004)

It's going to be a dud for sure, but they do have the right to enter and survey on private property without consent. Landowners will lose.


----------



## Rubberback (Sep 9, 2008)

I'm totally against it. We've seemed to have made it this long without it. Plenty of roads & planes to get there already. Ought to be a law against ruining good farm land for something we don't have to have.


----------



## batmaninja (Jul 15, 2010)

Some more info from TCRs website.

_
Who is funding the project?

We are! Texas Central is a privately funded company. With a group of primarily Texan investors, we are poised to bring high-speed rail to the State with Texan entrepreneurial values in mind. This project is not backed by public funds._

http://www.texascentral.com/facts/

I am not trying to argue the case here shadman, but I dont see how a private company can come on my land to survey it. What do you konw that I dont?

This is another link from the website.

https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov/files/agency/landowners_billofrights.pdf


----------



## MarkU (Jun 3, 2013)

Private company.. With it's eyes on Fed dollars to fund it. 

It would probably be cheaper to dig a canal from Dallas, to Houston. And have high speed Jet Boats run the 5 passengers back and forth.


----------



## TXXpress (May 23, 2004)

MarkU said:


> Private company.. With it's eyes on Fed dollars to fund it.


^ Exactly. No private company would ever be this naive to undertake a project like this one. Very few companies would have the deep pockets to fund it themselves. The return on investment would *never* come in our lifetime. :headknock


----------



## ChuChu (Jan 23, 2010)

TXXpress said:


> ^ Exactly. No private company would ever be this naive to undertake a project like this one. Very few companies would have the deep pockets to fund it themselves. The return on investment would *never* come in our lifetime. :headknock


Just like Texas Toll Road 130.

https://www.texastribune.org/2016/03/02/sh-130-toll-road-files-bankruptcy/


----------



## Rubberback (Sep 9, 2008)

Who ever brainstormed this idea has no heart. How would he like someone to come along and take his land away from him? I'm glad its not coming my way because I'd probably wind up in jail trying to defend whats mine. I feel very sad for the people that will be railroaded out of their land. Its not right and never will be.


----------



## ChuChu (Jan 23, 2010)

Rubberback said:


> Who ever brainstormed this idea has no heart. How would he like someone to come along and take his land away from him? I'm glad its not coming my way because I'd probably wind up in jail trying to defend whats mine. I feel very sad for the people that will be railroaded out of their land. Its not right and never will be.


He probably doesn't own land. Just an apartment at the top of a brick and steel building in a concrete jungle.


----------



## budreau (Jun 21, 2009)

Rubberback said:


> Who ever brainstormed this idea has no heart. How would he like someone to come along and take his land away from him? I'm glad its not coming my way because I'd probably wind up in jail trying to defend whats mine. I feel very sad for the people that will be railroaded out of their land. Its not right and never will be.


you are right they have no heart . electric companies are the same when it comes to new highlines . heartless zombies after the money and anybody that works for them in that regard is not worth *********** on if they were on fire. Hate them all. 
Texas does not need a train .


----------



## jtburf (May 26, 2004)

You all crack me up, if we did not have this stubborn mindset and NIMBY attitude this city might have a great mass transit program.

Who could imagine, getting on a commuter rail in down town and being in Katy, The Woodlands, Clear Lake and Sugarland in 20 min's or less. No we ***** and moan and stomp our feet and scream NIMBY. Yet we cry again when all major freeways have to have a complete over haul and yet still it takes over an hour or longer to leave down town and fight traffic 1 person in a full size auto...

Hate to be the one pointing it out but the new generation of menials and gen Y I guess are into mass transit, smaller homes and ok with communal living.

Hang in there you old fogy's....you will all be in a retirement home soon...

John


----------



## ShadMan (May 21, 2004)

batmaninja said:


> I am not trying to argue the case here shadman, but I dont see how a private company can come on my land to survey it. What do you konw that I dont?


If they have applied for and been approved to use eminent domain to obtain the land needed, it doesn't matter if it is a private company or governmental body. You can bet for a project like this, they are planning to use eminent domain to secure the right of way.

I really don't understand the benefit of a Houston-Dallas railway. Do they believe people are going to live in one and commute to the other, or is it primarily for leisure travel? If for leisure travel, who would use this if they live in one of the towns, knowing once they arrive in the other they will need to rent a car or arrange other transportation? I just don't see it being a big draw. I drive up to the Dallas area fairly regularly, and I can't see myself ever using this train, knowing I would need to rent a car to get around in Dallas rather than just driving mine up there.

Now, a commuter train that runs to The Woodlands, Kingwood, Katy, Sugarland, Clear Lake, etc? Sure, that would be awesome.


----------



## batmaninja (Jul 15, 2010)

Greats point John, lets of facts there and little conjecture! I am almost half your age BTW. 

What form of public transportation do you use to get around the city?


----------



## sweenyite (Feb 22, 2009)

So why not just elevate it and build it on the existing interstate ROW?


----------



## rut-ro (Oct 12, 2008)

jtburf said:


> You all crack me up, if we did not have this stubborn mindset and NIMBY attitude this city might have a great mass transit program.
> 
> Who could imagine, getting on a commuter rail in down town and being in Katy, The Woodlands, Clear Lake and Sugarland in 20 min's or less. No we ***** and moan and stomp our feet and scream NIMBY. Yet we cry again when all major freeways have to have a complete over haul and yet still it takes over an hour or longer to leave down town and fight traffic 1 person in a full size auto...
> 
> ...


I agree with you except the smaller homes. Have you seen the new neighborhoods going up in Sugar Land ? All 300+K and huge.


----------



## Rubberback (Sep 9, 2008)

jtburf said:


> You all crack me up, if we did not have this stubborn mindset and NIMBY attitude this city might have a great mass transit program.
> 
> Who could imagine, getting on a commuter rail in down town and being in Katy, The Woodlands, Clear Lake and Sugarland in 20 min's or less. No we ***** and moan and stomp our feet and scream NIMBY. Yet we cry again when all major freeways have to have a complete over haul and yet still it takes over an hour or longer to leave down town and fight traffic 1 person in a full size auto...
> 
> ...


My bad, but are you saying you are for trains running through our great state of Texas? Taking away people's homes and land that is theirs & they pay taxes on their land every year.


----------



## batmaninja (Jul 15, 2010)

jtburf said:


> Hate to be the one pointing it out but the new generation of menials and gen Y I guess are into mass transit, smaller homes and ok with communal living.


This has to do mainly with the fact that they are broke from spending six figures on a liberal arts degree. Not because they believe in group ownership.

I used to go to Dallas a few times a year and didnt have any issues with the Mega Bus. It cost about $10 each way.

I see the appeal being more that someone can live in Shiro TX and work in Houston. But then you need a car or more inter-modal transportation opportunities in the city.

Honestly I see it more as a way to bilk investors out of money.


----------



## Archer (Jul 10, 2006)

Tortuga said:


> Had this same fight back in the '50s with Eisenhower's interstate freeway system..
> 
> Personally..I LIKE the freeway system.. Anybody old enough here to remember the old Galveston highway ..versus the Gulf Freeway....LOL
> 
> Course..I got no dawg in this fight.. Not going thru my back yard....


But unlike the IS highway system that was intended to open the country up to travel and improve interstate commerce the plan here is to eliminate the cars/trucks on that highway system and replace it with high speed rail lines linking all the major urban areas nationwide. They arenâ€™t concerned with landowner rights because their ultimate plan is to force people into large urban areas leaving the countryside as an uninhabited â€œwildlife corridorâ€. Do a little research on Agenda 21 and the whole global warming scam, itâ€™s all linked and high speed rail is one of their holy grails.


----------



## goatchze (Aug 1, 2006)

ShadMan said:


> If they have applied for and been approved to use eminent domain to obtain the land needed, it doesn't matter if it is a private company or governmental body. You can bet for a project like this, they are planning to use eminent domain to secure the right of way.
> 
> I really don't understand the benefit of a Houston-Dallas railway. Do they believe people are going to live in one and commute to the other, or is it primarily for leisure travel? If for leisure travel, who would use this if they live in one of the towns, knowing once they arrive in the other they will need to rent a car or arrange other transportation? I just don't see it being a big draw. I drive up to the Dallas area fairly regularly, and I can't see myself ever using this train, knowing I would need to rent a car to get around in Dallas rather than just driving mine up there.
> 
> Now, a commuter train that runs to The Woodlands, Kingwood, Katy, Sugarland, Clear Lake, etc? Sure, that would be awesome.


Not a proponent or opponent, but there was a time they were talking about it coming near B/CS. I spent several years as the Houston salesman for my company, and in those years, spent a considerable amount of time downtown visiting O&G firms. If there was a HS train that ran from B/CS to downtown, it would have been fantastic, and I would have taken it all the time.

The real downside to this proposed train, IMO, is the lack of good public transit in the cities themselves. I could see taking it to downtown to visit clients/prospects, but everyone else is too spread out. Smaller towns, too, need to be interconnected, which isn't going to happen. We took a trip to NOLA for a conference this spring, and I really did look at taking a train. Problem was, I would have had to drive to Temple or Houston, so what was the point? It sure would have been nice, though, to be able to stand up, walk around, drink a beer, sleep, etc., all while continuing to my destination.


----------



## Mr. Saltwater (Oct 5, 2012)

batmaninja said:


> I see the appeal being more that someone can live in Shiro TX and work in Houston. But then you need a car or more inter-modal transportation opportunities in the city.


The proposed train will run NONSTOP between Houston and Dallas...for about $200 per ticket. Absolutely NO benefit to anyone between the two cities. In fact, just the opposite...loss of land values, farm income, and the peace and beauty of a lot of Texas country. 

This thing would be BAD for Texas!!!


----------



## boom! (Jul 10, 2004)

Tortuga said:


> Had this same fight back in the '50s with Eisenhower's interstate freeway system..
> 
> Personally..I LIKE the freeway system.. Anybody old enough here to remember the old Galveston highway ..versus the Gulf Freeway....LOL
> 
> Course..I got no dawg in this fight.. Not going thru my back yard....


You were probably just as excited when we built a railroad connecting the east with the west. How many times have you used it since?


----------



## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

It will go broke before it runs the first train.


----------



## batmaninja (Jul 15, 2010)

Mr. Saltwater said:


> The proposed train will run NONSTOP between Houston and Dallas...for about $200 per ticket. Absolutely NO benefit to anyone between the two cities. In fact, just the opposite...loss of land values, farm income, and the peace and beauty of a lot of Texas country.
> 
> This thing would be BAD for Texas!!!


 _In Dallas, two potential station locations are being considered. In Houston, the station is planned for the area along the 610 Loop between 290 and I-10._

_The Brazos Valley Station will be located on the rail line in Grimes County. The final station locations will be determined and announced as engineering, design and environmental analysis is completed._

This is from the website I posted earlier. Shiro is in Grimes and is a proposed stop. I know of more than a few folks there that wont be happy about a private company coming on their land, in any capacity. I think there is supposed to be trains that do both. But I agree with everything else you said.


----------



## Mr. Saltwater (Oct 5, 2012)

Mont said:


> It will go broke before it runs the first train.


And that's when TAXPAYER dollars would come into play. Whether you ride it or not you will pay for it.

MY Sister told me it was discussed at the meeting in Waller how Texas Central was threatening landowners with the use of imminent domain to acquire properties BEFORE they have authority and BEFORE the actual proposed route was finalized. Property owners would be forced or conned to sell for less than what their property was actually worth, and if the rail went a different route they could buy their land back...if they were able to. If they didn't have the money to reclaim their land then Texas Central could sell it to another buyer...AT A PROFIT.

Bunch of crooks looking to scam property owners and taxpayers while lining their pockets.


----------



## Rubberback (Sep 9, 2008)

Mont said:


> It will go broke before it runs the first train.


That went thru my head. Kinda rough not only buying all the land needed but can you imagine the law suits. Land owners do not like to get railroaded out of their land. Who wants money I'd rather have my land than a pile of cash. One big reason is because I'm living on my Grandpa's land & that means a lot to me. I've been eating off this farm for along time, plus if and that's a big if LOL if I go to heaven & see my dad & grandpa I can give them and update on the farm.


----------



## Goags (May 28, 2004)

Tortuga said:


> Had this same fight back in the '50s with Eisenhower's interstate freeway system..
> 
> Personally..I LIKE the freeway system.. Anybody old enough here to remember the old Galveston highway ..versus the Gulf Freeway....LOL
> 
> Course..I got no dawg in this fight.. Not going thru my back yard....





boom! said:


> You were probably just as excited when we built a railroad connecting the east with the west. How many times have you used it since?


Purty sure Tort saw the golden spike being driven.


----------



## Mr. Saltwater (Oct 5, 2012)

batmaninja said:


> _In Dallas, two potential station locations are being considered. In Houston, the station is planned for the area along the 610 Loop between 290 and I-10._
> 
> _The Brazos Valley Station will be located on the rail line in Grimes County. The final station locations will be determined and announced as engineering, design and environmental analysis is completed._
> 
> This is from the website I posted earlier. Shiro is in Grimes and is a proposed stop. I know of more than a few folks there that wont be happy about a private company coming on their land, in any capacity. I think there is supposed to be trains that do both. But I agree with everything else you said.


I know that originally there were proposed stops between Houston and Dallas. A few months ago those plans changed and it was going to be nonstop to shorten the travel time. Small towns on the route withdrew their support because there would be absolutely no benefit for their citizens. Maybe they changed their plans again...for now.


----------



## jtburf (May 26, 2004)

batmaninja said:


> Greats point John, lets of facts there and little conjecture! I am almost half your age BTW.
> 
> What form of public transportation do you use to get around the city?


Outside sales before I was caught up in a cost savings plan so public transport would not work for me.

John


----------



## jtburf (May 26, 2004)

rut-ro said:


> I agree with you except the smaller homes. Have you seen the new neighborhoods going up in Sugar Land ? All 300+K and huge.


How many buyers are between 25 and 30 years old percentage wise?

John


----------



## jtburf (May 26, 2004)

Rubberback said:


> My bad, but are you saying you are for trains running through our great state of Texas? Taking away people's homes and land that is theirs & they pay taxes on their land every year.


Is your land threatened?

Yes I am for trains, will it affect some, Yes. Will the land owner be squared away? I cannot tell you, but I doubt you will notice the high speed rail anymore than the tracks that run along 105.

John


----------



## jtburf (May 26, 2004)

batmaninja said:


> This has to do mainly with the fact that they are broke from spending six figures on a liberal arts degree. Not because they believe in group ownership.
> 
> I used to go to Dallas a few times a year and didnt have any issues with the Mega Bus. It cost about $10 each way.
> 
> ...


FYI, I am not sure when the last time you paid for any sort of college degree, however they all cost the same...

The actual issue is lower paying jobs, from accounting to education and all degrees in between. Yes some make good wages, and some make poor wages. This all has to do with the economy overall.

John


----------



## Mr. Saltwater (Oct 5, 2012)

*Texas Centralâ€™s â€œFactsâ€ Debunked*

by Texans Against High-Speed Rail, Inc. | Jun 2, 2016 | Blog Article | 0 comments
Recently, an article appeared in a publication called The Hill and, much to the dismay of Texas Central, it highlighted several (but not all) of the flaws with the Dallas Houston HSR. Texas Central was obviously not happy and a response appeared within days from Texas Centralâ€™s Holly Reed. Below are the â€œfactsâ€ being claimed by Texas Central and our responses to those claims.
*Introductory claim by Ms. Reed: â€œAs developers of this private project, Texas-based Texas Central fully supports an open conversation with all parties about the high-speed train.â€*
Response:
Nothing could be further from the truth. Texas Central will not release the following information: feasibility studies, ridership projections, fare estimates, data supporting construction cost estimates, construction schedule, parking plans, security plans, amount of land needed, business plans or models, current amount of available financing, source of financing, and expected income. The list goes on and on. Texas Central wonâ€™t present a representative to answer questions under oath. Texas Central redacts its legal arguments being used to hide information. Texas Central deftly avoids simple, point-blank questions at its â€œopenâ€ meetings. Texas Central files petitions with federal agencies seeking exemptions from railroad regulations, and doesnâ€™t notify anyone. Texas Central also hides and deletes questions and comments from concerned citizens on all its social media channels.
For Ms. Reed to open her piece with this gross, blatant misrepresentation, while at the same time attacking the integrity of reporter Crystal Wright, is journalistic hypocrisy at its finest.
*â€œFact #1: As nearly every major newspaper in Texas has reported, the high-speed train will create 40,000 jobs for its four-year construction â€" in Texas, not Japan as the blogger stated.â€*​ Response:
Newspapers are merely reporting the information Texas Central tells them. This does not make what Texas Central tells them any more fact than fiction.
In slide presentations, to the press, and before the Surface Transportation Board, Texas Central has claimed that the Project will create 40,000 jobs in Texas. Texas Central has also claimed that the the Project will spur billions in economic benefits and tax revenues to Texas. Ms. Reed makes similar claims in her attack piece. In support of these bold claims, Texas Central has repeatedly cited to a report created by Insight Research Corporation, a consulting firm based in Allen, Texas.
Multiple media outlets, including the Houston Press, have asked for a copy of this report. So has TAHSR, on multiple occasions. But Texas Central wonâ€™t release it. The question to Ms. Reed is, why wonâ€™t Texas Central just release the report, if it says what Texas Central claims it says? Why all the secrecy?
*â€œFact #2: Texas Central will comply with all existing state laws and regulations protecting property owners. Contrary to the bloggerâ€™s assertions, Texas Centralâ€™s recent filing to the Surface Transportation Board did not request that any landowner protections be changed or removed.â€*​ Response:
Under Texas law, private property cannot be condemned unless there is a public use, a public purpose, and a public necessity for the project. Texas Central, a private, for-profit entity backed by Japanese money, has not proven any of these elements. Nor has Texas Central proven it is a railroad, or been granted approval to construct. Texas Central hasnâ€™t even chosen a final route.
Yet, Texas Central has asked the Board, a federal agency, for permission to start condemnation proceedings now, through a no-notice, sneak attack petition for â€œclarification.â€ In it, Texas Central says it is willing to â€œaccept the riskâ€ that it â€œmay acquire property rights in locations not ultimately identified as the final alignment.â€ In other words, Texas Central wants to condemn land and force landowners to hire an attorney and expensive appraiser even though it may turn out the land being condemned is not needed for the project. Given that Texas Central has asked the Board for this relief, which if granted would strip landowners of their ability to protect their private property rights in Texas state courts, how can Ms. Reed say with a straight face that Texas Central is not requesting a â€œchangeâ€ or â€œremovalâ€ of â€œlandowner protectionsâ€?
In addition, the legislative grant of eminent domain power in Texas is strictly construed in two regards. First, strict compliance with all statutory requirements is required. Second, in instances of doubt as to the scope of the power, the statute granting such power is â€œstrictly construed in favor of the landowner.â€ Texas Central is asking the Board to ignore this Texas law, which is in place to protect Texansâ€™ private property rights, just so it can meet undisclosed deadlines promised to its Japanese partners. Does Ms. Reed think this is fair?
*â€œFact #3: Texas Central, a private company, will not take taxpayer grants for construction or take any public money to subsidize its operations. And, under Texas law, it is illegal to bail out a private-sector company. Suggesting that taxpayers will be â€œleft holding the tabâ€ is simply false. All risk falls to the private investors in this project, not the state or taxpayers.â€*​ Response:
Texas Central has been trying to wordsmith its way around this â€œprivate money onlyâ€ issue for quite some time. Letâ€™s consider each of Ms. Reedâ€™s claims independently.
First, Ms. Reed claims Texas Central â€œwill not take taxpayer grants for constructionâ€¦â€ Well what about government-backed loans, which Texas Central has admitted on numerous occasions that it will aggressively seek? If Texas Central defaults on these loans, taxpayers will, in fact, be â€œleft holding the tab,â€ despite Ms. Reedâ€™s claims to the contrary.
Second, Ms. Reed claims Texas Central will not â€œtake any public money to subsidize its operations.â€ But what about public money to subsidize construction? Why is she being coy?
Third, Ms. Reed claims â€œunder Texas law, it is illegal to bail out a private sector company.â€ What about under federal law? Remember, Texas Central is asking the Board, a federal agency, to take jurisdiction over the project. And we all remember the federal government bailing out the big banks. If the Board takes jurisdiction over this project, the federal government (not the State of Texas) may well have to bail out this impending financial disaster too.
Finally, Ms. Reed claims, â€œall risk falls to the private investors in this project, not the state or taxpayers.â€ How can this be if Texas Central has admitted it will rely on government-backed loans? Taxpayers will be at risk.
If Texas Central wants to put in writing it will not seek government-backed loans for the construction or operation of its project, then it should just say so. And if it wants to claim only private investors will be at risk, show us proof all the necessary financing is in place, through private means. Otherwise, Ms. Reed and Texas Central should stop trying to be tricky with their words.
*â€œFact #4: As the STB filings clearly state, Texas Central has committed to the STB that it will not take possession of any property through condemnation proceedings until the final certification of a passenger route has been approved.â€*​ Response:
Whether or not Texas Central takes possession of any property before construction is approved is beside the point. Ms. Reed purposely ignores the fact if Texas Central gets it way, landowners will be forced to hire attorneys and go to court to protect their property rights, even though their property may not be needed for the project. For obvious reasons, this is not the way it works in Texas, which is exactly why Texas Central is asking the Board to â€œclarifyâ€ this issue. In short, Texas Central wants the Board to change, not clarify, the way it works in Texas. This is clearly an abuse of the eminent domain process, plain and simple.
*â€œFact #5: Texasâ€™ high-speed rail has been designed since its inception to maximize ridership, giving travelers a new transportation choice between two of the nationâ€™s largest population and employment centers. The bloggerâ€™s claim that Texas Central â€œadmitted that high-speed rail in the US is unprofitable,â€ is wrong or it wouldnâ€™t be being building this privately funded system.â€*​ Response:
It does not matter what Texas Centralâ€™s high-speed rail â€œhas been designedâ€ to do. What matters is whether there is sufficient ridership demand in the relevant marketâ€"travelers to and from Dallas and Houston. And on that point, Texas Central has yet to provide any evidence to back up its projections, while actively resisting TAHSRâ€™s efforts to obtain this critical information. On the other hand, in its reply to Texas Centralâ€™s exemption petition, TAHSR completely shredded Texas Centralâ€™s fantasy four-million-a-year ridership projection, using objective, verifiable data and supporting evidence.
On a related note, Texas Centralâ€™s main Japanese partner paid for a 273-page feasibility study that analyzed the projectâ€™s feasibility and ridership demand. Of course, Texas Central wonâ€™t release this study to the public either.
Ms. Reed also claims Texas Central wouldnâ€™t be building this project unless it was going to be profitable. If this is true, then why wonâ€™t Texas Central release its business plan, or show the public how it is that Texas Central plans on making money? As it stands, Texas Central doesnâ€™t even know how much a ticket is going to cost.
The bottom line is Texas Central has not released any evidence explaining how it will be able to operate at a profit. In contrast, TAHSR showed through its own analysis and that of Dr. John Harding, Former Chief Scientist for the Federal Railroad Administration, that the project is going to be a complete financial failure, operating at a quarter-of-a-billion-dollar deficit per year.
With all due respect to Ms. Reed, where is Texas Centralâ€™s analysis? Where is its data? Where are its numbers?


----------



## ChuChu (Jan 23, 2010)

I wonder who is holding the bag for maintenance of Toll Road 130 since the "owner" filed bankruptcy?


----------



## ShadMan (May 21, 2004)

jtburf said:


> FYI, I am not sure when the last time you paid for any sort of college degree, however they all cost the same...


I believe he was referring to the fact that liberal arts degrees generally never pay for themselves like a Business degree, for example. You pay a lot of money you will never recoup. Hard to pay back six figures with a Renaissance French Literature degree. Haha!


----------



## Rubberback (Sep 9, 2008)

jtburf said:


> Is your land threatened?
> 
> Yes I am for trains, will it affect some, Yes. Will the land owner be squared away? I cannot tell you, but I doubt you will notice the high speed rail anymore than the tracks that run along 105.
> 
> John


I'm well aware of tracks on 105 & I know they use those tracks quite often. Those tracks are used to haul materials that are much needed.
Hauling a bunch of people thru prime farm land is not needed. When we have many roads already & many planes that fulfill our travel already. Its not needed.


----------



## ChasingReds (Jul 31, 2009)

I'm trying to figure why we're in such a hurry to get to Dallas! We have the same Olive Garden's down here as they do.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


----------



## MikeV (Jun 5, 2006)

jtburf said:


> You all crack me up, if we did not have this stubborn mindset and NIMBY attitude this city might have a great mass transit program.
> 
> Who could imagine, getting on a commuter rail in down town and being in Katy, The Woodlands, Clear Lake and Sugarland in 20 min's or less. No we ***** and moan and stomp our feet and scream NIMBY.
> 
> John


Imagining is about all that is gong to happen because it isn't feasible. Costs are way too high. Might as well imagine those jet packs and flying cars that Popular Science was predicting 60 years ago. Those never happened either.


----------



## MikeV (Jun 5, 2006)

jtburf said:


> FYI, I am not sure when the last time you paid for any sort of college degree, however they all cost the same...


Actually, they don't.


----------



## jtburf (May 26, 2004)

ShadMan said:


> I believe he was referring to the fact that liberal arts degrees generally never pay for themselves like a Business degree, for example. You pay a lot of money you will never recoup. Hard to pay back six figures with a Renaissance French Literature degree. Haha!


Shad,

I fully know what he's implying, I have one with a business degree and she is doing ok not great, would struggle to buy a home in any area beside that barrio.

I have one in his senior year getting a liberal arts degree (archeology).

We paid for both of their undergrad degrees and after that they are on their own.

Guess what, the son will start out about 25% higher starting pay over the daughter with a business degree.

John


----------



## Rubberback (Sep 9, 2008)

jtburf said:


> Is your land threatened?
> 
> Yes I am for trains, will it affect some, Yes. Will the land owner be squared away? I cannot tell you, but I doubt you will notice the high speed rail anymore than the tracks that run along 105.
> 
> John


No thank god! I spent some cash to fight Centerpoint to keep them from taking my land for high lines on my property. And thank god their not gonna do it. Who in their right mind would want an energy co, taking your land for energy but not supplying it to you. Screw that! Think about it.


----------



## MikeV (Jun 5, 2006)

ChasingReds said:


> I'm trying to figure why we're in such a hurry to get to Dallas! We have the same Olive Garden's down here as they do.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


Yeah, fly, drive, or videoconference. High speed rail is not needed. Only way it could be built is with tax dollars.


----------



## jtburf (May 26, 2004)

MikeV said:


> Actually, they don't.


Actually they do, same university all degree plans basically cost the same.

Only real difference is if one requires 12-18 more hours.

I know what I am saying as we are paying for 4 degrees now.

John


----------



## Mr. Saltwater (Oct 5, 2012)

KHOU interviewed my Brother-in-Law at one of the meetings.

http://www.khou.com/news/local/waller-county-landowners-vow-to-fight-high-speed-rail/175447024

I wish I had a video of another comment he made at a meeting. A spokeswoman/lawyer for TC told the crowd of angry landowners that the community would see a big increase in business revenue during the construction phase of the project. My BIL said, "That's all fine and dandy but after a few months of increased business all the workers will be gone and we will be stuck with this thing. It's kind of like a one-night-stand that leaves you with a case of herpes." She was speechless and her face turned beet red.:rotfl:


----------



## budreau (Jun 21, 2009)

jtburf said:


> Is your land threatened?
> 
> Yes I am for trains, will it affect some, Yes. Will the land owner be squared away? I cannot tell you, but I doubt you will notice the high speed rail anymore than the tracks that run along 105.
> 
> John


are you a land owner ? do you live on this land ? if not you have no ideal what you are saying .


----------



## ShadMan (May 21, 2004)

jtburf said:


> Guess what, the son will start out about 25% higher starting pay over the daughter with a business degree.


Yep, but it won't last. For example, teachers are one of the highest paid professions coming out of college, but 5 years later, everyone in your class has passed you in salary. 10-15 years later, most are making at least double what you make.


----------



## Bozo (Jun 16, 2004)

I have grown up in the burbs of houston my entire life. I have zero understanding of the sentimental value you folks are placing on land. I would wager most people that aren't from the country are like me in that aspect as well. Which means that the opposition to this project is going to fall on ears that disagree with you or don't care either way. I'm in the don't care about it group. Which means that I'm not going to fight for you or against you on the subject so big money will prevail over a small group of ticked off land owners. All of the opposition will only be united in voice, but when the rails start to hit the cowpies, if it isn't going to go across their land, they won't mortgage the farm to help the neighbor out that is affected. 

Y'all can get mad and fight and lose. Or you can start making plans on how to make more than your share of the money when I comes to your pastures.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


----------



## MarkU (Jun 3, 2013)

What ever happened to that NAFTA highway up 35? That was going to have 4 lanes each way, and railroads.


----------



## Rubberback (Sep 9, 2008)

Mr. Saltwater said:


> KHOU interviewed my Brother-in-Law at one of the meetings.
> 
> http://www.khou.com/news/local/waller-county-landowners-vow-to-fight-high-speed-rail/175447024
> 
> I wish I had a video of another comment he made at a meeting. A spokeswoman/lawyer for TC told the crowd of angry landowners that the community would see a big increase in business revenue during the construction phase of the project. My BIL said, "That's all fine and dandy but after a few months of increased business all the workers will be gone and we will be stuck with this thing. It's kind of like a one-night-stand that leaves you with a case of herpes." She was speechless and her face turned beet red.:rotfl:


I'll have to remember that line " I have a target range on my property". At one time they had tracks on my property. 
Another problem with all this letting these people take whatever they want attitude is we are not the only one's that live on earth. But they have no control over the land they live on. The wildlife is what I'm referring to. But when it comes to money vs our environment money always wins.
I might be wrong with this statement I think more deer are killed by auto's then with rifles. If I'm wrong I apologize. 
So, now we want to kill more critters with a subsonic train. We have already pushed the wildlife about as far as you can without having them vanish because of human's greed for the almighty dollar.
This stupidity needs to stop.
Lots of people could care less about the wildlife but I care. They have the same right to live here as I do.


----------



## ShadMan (May 21, 2004)

Bozo said:


> I have grown up in the burbs of houston my entire life. I have zero understanding of the sentimental value you folks are placing on land.


I do understand it. In many cases, this is land the family has owned for generations, and has been whittled away by electric easements, pipelines, etc. Also, if someone is farming or ranching on the land, and now there is a highway dividing it in half, it's not easy to get to the other side with your equipment, often making parts of your land unusable.

That said, eminent domain is aptly named and necessary. We would not have highways if it was not possible to take land (at market value) for the public good, and those folks who live out in those areas would not have electricity. It sucks, but it's a necessary evil.


----------



## MikeV (Jun 5, 2006)

jtburf said:


> Actually they do, same university all degree plans basically cost the same.
> 
> Only real difference is if one requires 12-18 more hours.
> 
> ...


Actually that isn't what you said, you are changing your statement now to the say the same university, and using basically as a qualifier.

Your original statement is they all cost the same. Get one in Stanford and one in Sam Houston and compare the two.


----------



## batmaninja (Jul 15, 2010)

Here is the Batman Clan's Land. Stone in the back for Conrad, states he was born in Germany in the 1700s. Came to Texas to be a buffer between the gringos and Indians. 8 generations later, and I have my slice that I am not giving up for no one. Sentimental would be a gross understatement. :texasflag



jtburf said:


> so public transport would not work for me.


Judging by your statement here, I would have guessed you were in politics.


----------



## budreau (Jun 21, 2009)

Bozo said:


> I have grown up in the burbs of houston my entire life. I have zero understanding of the sentimental value you folks are placing on land. I would wager most people that aren't from the country are like me in that aspect as well. Which means that the opposition to this project is going to fall on ears that disagree with you or don't care either way. I'm in the don't care about it group. Which means that I'm not going to fight for you or against you on the subject so big money will prevail over a small group of ticked off land owners. All of the opposition will only be united in voice, but when the rails start to hit the cowpies, if it isn't going to go across their land, they won't mortgage the farm to help the neighbor out that is affected.
> 
> Y'all can get mad and fight and lose. Or you can start making plans on how to make more than your share of the money when I comes to your pastures.
> 
> Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


for you what if they put the tracks between your patio and your back fence ? 
might not be so great ?


----------



## Bozo (Jun 16, 2004)

Might not. Id move. Like I said, I have zero ties to my house. If something happens to make it not where I want to be, move. That simple. It would do the same if I owned business property. If the area it was in became a negative to my profitability, I'd move the business. A farm or ranch is just a business after all. You have to go where you can make money. If a choochoo track hurts that then find a place that works better for you.


----------



## stinkypete (Oct 2, 2015)

This is what happens with the influx of garbage from CA, ie: Tim Keith the CEO of TCR. People like him have no concept of family land, just what they can buy and sell.


----------



## batmaninja (Jul 15, 2010)

Bozo said:


> Like I said, I have zero ties to my house.


What about to your kids school district?



Bozo said:


> A farm or ranch is just a business after all.


False.


----------



## Bozo (Jun 16, 2004)

batmaninja said:


> What about to your kids school district?
> 
> False.


What about the school? It is a good one, but it isn't the only good one. That would not keep me from moving at all.

If it isn't a business, then I wouldn't want you to be claiming an age exemption then. That is for exclusively ag business property, not for family heirlooms.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


----------



## batmaninja (Jul 15, 2010)

Bozo said:


> That is for exclusively ag business property, not for family heirlooms.


Not Ag exempt.


----------



## Bozo (Jun 16, 2004)

The point is you are showing what I was saying country people place a value on land staying the same that most people that I know in the city don't have that attachment to. land it is an investment like a bond certificate that we don't have issue with cashing in.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


----------



## Rubberback (Sep 9, 2008)

My feeling towards land is its Gods country & I'm simply God's caretaker of the land. In turn I have a beautiful front yard & backyard. The bonus is the grub that the lord helps me grow. 
Without his help I would have nothing.


----------



## batmaninja (Jul 15, 2010)

Bozo said:


> land it is an investment like a bond certificate that we don't have issue with cashing in.


No its not. Your claim that real estate is an interchange commodity, is entirely false. No 2 pieces of real estate are the same, ever. Never ever. That is pretty much as elementary as it can get.

My moms lives in a 1950s house in Houston, that she was raised in. It is close to her church, job and her sisters. You couldnt drag that old women out of that house with a D10 dozer.


----------



## Bozo (Jun 16, 2004)

OK. I'm not going to ask why she never moved out of her parents house, but that certainly has to be a rare exception. I guess she was millennial before millennial was cool.  I'll still contend that the vast majority of suburb and city dwellers are not in the same house that a family member owned. You buy and sell to move up in size and value as your family grows and then downsize when you become an empty nester. Nobody that I know that is buying a house is looking for it to be a forever place. It is to fit the bill for what you need. And that is a very different mindset than what large land tract owners have. And I'll still contend that the vast majority of the population do not hold sentimental value on a house or land in the burbs and city like people do in the country. I can say without doubt all of my neighbors want their kids to move out when grown and have no desire for them to move back in to their house at some later date. Even when dead, sell it and move on with another use for the money gained.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


----------



## ShadMan (May 21, 2004)

I think 80% of people can understand someone's attachment to the land they've worked for generations to get it exactly the way they want it and 20% of people are *** holes. LMAO!


----------



## dbarham (Aug 13, 2005)

ShadMan said:


> I think 80% of people can understand someone's attachment to the land they've worked for generations to get it exactly the way they want it and 20% of people are *** holes. LMAO!


X2^^


----------



## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

Bozo said:


> OK. I'm not going to ask why she never moved out of her parents house, but that certainly has to be a rare exception. I guess she was millennial before millennial was cool.  I'll still contend that the vast majority of suburb and city dwellers are not in the same house that a family member owned. You buy and sell to move up in size and value as your family grows and then downsize when you become an empty nester. Nobody that I know that is buying a house is looking for it to be a forever place. It is to fit the bill for what you need. And that is a very different mindset than what large land tract owners have. And I'll still contend that the vast majority of the population do not hold sentimental value on a house or land in the burbs and city like people do in the country. I can say without doubt all of my neighbors want their kids to move out when grown and have no desire for them to move back in to their house at some later date. Even when dead, sell it and move on with another use for the money gained.
> 
> Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


let me guess.... you also have no patriotism?


----------



## budreau (Jun 21, 2009)

ShadMan said:


> I think 80% of people can understand someone's attachment to the land they've worked for generations to get it exactly the way they want it and 20% of people are *** holes. LMAO![/QUOTE
> 
> x1000


----------



## Mr. Saltwater (Oct 5, 2012)

Bozo said:


> Land is an investment like a bond certificate that we don't have issue with cashing in.
> 
> Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk





Bozo said:


> ... sell it and move on with another use for the money gained.
> 
> Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


Landowners will not gain money from this HS rail scam. In fact, just the opposite...it will greatly lower their remaining properties value and make it very difficult to sell.

This is not a road or highway that improves access to land or grows the local economy. It's not the sale of family land to a developer for a "can't refuse" offer of cash. This is a foreign company and wealthy investors attempting to take land that many Texans have invested their money, labor, and lifetimes in owning. The only ones "cashing in" will be Japanese bankers, fat cats, lawyers, and corrupt politicians who receive campaign donations.


----------



## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

Bozo, what you've got to realize is that the properties in question get entwined in every aspect of people's lives... You live in a house. Yay. Somebody out in the country making a living in Ag has their entire existence wrapped up in that land. The equivalent would be for the rail company to come in all at once, kick you out of your house, your job, your bank accounts, and any other assets you have; require you to sever any emotional ties you have that are based on your own familial history, give you "market value" compensation for something that you wouldn't have sold for ten times that, and put you on the street with guys like you saying "just take the money and start over somewhere else"..

Next, even if you could clear those emotional hurdles, you suddenly find yourself in a position where you find the economic hurdles to be impossible; you've been working land that was bought and paid for generations ago at common rural prices, and you're faced with acquiring a property in a market rife with Houston retirees looking for a place in the country for their retirement "hobby farm".. Those people looking for little 10-20 acre plots, and the effect they've had on rural land prices, have quite simply destroyed any possibility of putting together a viable Ag operation; you quite simply can't make enough per acre to pay for the new land at current prices. 

In other words, if you get kicked off this land which you have this, as you frame it, unreasonable emotional attachment to, your life is over. You go from scratching out a living on a property where your dad, grandad, etc. did the same thing, to being a wal-mart greeter living in a place that is completely foreign to you, that you can't stand, and you're just not suited or prepared for, surrounded by a bunch of Houston idiots that simply can't see why you're ****** about the situation. 

Your suburban standards just don't apply here, you can't beat them hard enough to fit in this hole.


----------



## Ceejmo (Oct 13, 2015)

If the HSR is put in it will run about 2300 feet off of my back porch and it will be elevated in this stretch. Our evenings of sitting on the back porch with a cold adult beverage while the sun sets just won't be the same. I'm not looking forward to the noise it will make either.


----------



## ChuChu (Jan 23, 2010)

Bottom line is we just don't need it.


----------



## Bozo (Jun 16, 2004)

dwilliams35 said:


> Bozo, what you've got to realize is that the properties in question get entwined in every aspect of people's lives... You live in a house. Yay. Somebody out in the country making a living in Ag has their entire existence wrapped up in that land. The equivalent would be for the rail company to come in all at once, kick you out of your house, your job, your bank accounts, and any other assets you have; require you to sever any emotional ties you have that are based on your own familial history, give you "market value" compensation for something that you wouldn't have sold for ten times that, and put you on the street with guys like you saying "just take the money and start over somewhere else"..
> 
> Next, even if you could clear those emotional hurdles, you suddenly find yourself in a position where you find the economic hurdles to be impossible; you've been working land that was bought and paid for generations ago at common rural prices, and you're faced with acquiring a property in a market rife with Houston retirees looking for a place in the country for their retirement "hobby farm".. Those people looking for little 10-20 acre plots, and the effect they've had on rural land prices, have quite simply destroyed any possibility of putting together a viable Ag operation; you quite simply can't make enough per acre to pay for the new land at current prices.
> 
> ...


Exactly. The small minority can whine about the injustice and possibly rightfully so. But you'll never have enough money or united front to win the war. City people will not fight for your farm and if push comes to shove the vast majority will support the rail because it's cool and wont think twice about it.

Whether true or not, city people think eminent domain acquisition is just because we have funded farm subsidies and ag/open space exemptions and tax rate reductions for a few generations.

I'm not arguing for it to happen, I'm just saying fighting it will fall on ears that don't care, don't understand the attachment, and will want something cool.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


----------



## Goags (May 28, 2004)

ChuChu said:


> Bottom line is we just don't need it.


...Yet. When the 4 hr drive becomes 8 hrs or more, HSRail may become more appealing. I'm not a fan, but my grandkid's kids may demand it


----------



## ChuChu (Jan 23, 2010)

Goags said:


> ...Yet. When the 4 hr drive becomes 8 hrs or more, HSRail may become more appealing. I'm not a fan, but my grandkid's kids may demand it


Let your grandkids kids build it if they need it more than food.


----------



## boom! (Jul 10, 2004)

Goags said:


> ...Yet. When the 4 hr drive becomes 8 hrs or more, HSRail may become more appealing. I'm not a fan, but my grandkid's kids may demand it


A 45 minute flight to Dallas will always be a 45 minute flight. Comparing this particular rail to auto travel is silly.


----------



## Goags (May 28, 2004)

ChuChu said:


> Let your grandkids kids build it if they need it more than food.


 Do you think some form of mass transit is in the future for Texas, however distant?


----------



## Duckchasr (Apr 27, 2011)

*YUP!*

...


Rubberback said:


> My feeling towards land is its Gods country & I'm simply God's caretaker of the land. In turn I have a beautiful front yard & backyard. The bonus is the grub that the lord helps me grow.
> Without his help I would have nothing.





batmaninja said:


> Here is the Batman Clan's Land. Stone in the back for Conrad, states he was born in Germany in the 1700s. Came to Texas to be a buffer between the gringos and Indians. 8 generations later, and I have my slice that I am not giving up for no one. Sentimental would be a gross understatement. :texasflag
> That's it folks.:texasflag
> 
> Judging by your statement here, I would have guessed you were in politics.


----------



## ChuChu (Jan 23, 2010)

Goags said:


> Do you think some form of mass transit is in the future for Texas, however distant?


Maybe. When enough liberals move to Texas and breeds the independent gene out, then maybe.


----------



## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

I'll be all for it if it will stop by the SuperConducting SuperCollider memorial.


----------



## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

Goags said:


> Do you think some form of mass transit is in the future for Texas, however distant?


sure, but it will be road based and not rail based. Texas Bus Lines ran a highly successful business around here for years and as a kid, I rode it to and from work in Galveston. Improving our roads benefits everyone vs a rail system that will only benefit a select few. Auto driving cars are already here and they are the future. Not some "fast" train with $200 tickets. Things like this rail system wouldn't exist without government money and I don't want mine spent on it. The toll road system in Texas has the best roads we have. We need more things like it. Living on the rail road tracks in League City has also taught me that most of what goes up and down rail systems in Houston are flammable too. Something to consider when this thing jumps the tracks. I still say it will never get off the ground and be mired in losses, lawsuits, politics and lawyers long after I am dead.


----------



## Goags (May 28, 2004)

Mont said:


> sure, but it will be road based and not rail based. Texas Bus Lines ran a highly successful business around here for years and as a kid, I rode it to and from work in Galveston. Improving our roads benefits everyone vs a rail system that will only benefit a select few. Auto driving cars are already here and they are the future. Not some "fast" train with $200 tickets. Things like this rail system wouldn't exist without government money and I don't want mine spent on it. The toll road system in Texas has the best roads we have. We need more things like it. Living on the rail road tracks in League City has also taught me that most of what goes up and down rail systems in Houston are flammable too. Something to consider when this thing jumps the tracks. I still say it will never get off the ground and be mired in losses, lawsuits, politics and lawyers long after I am dead.


I'm not FOR the HSRail, but when you say future mass transit will be road-based and not rail based, I can envision LOTS MORE eminent domain squabbles. Yes, it seems like the current Texas trend is toll-roads, some even privately owned.


----------



## driftfish20 (May 13, 2006)

FWIW, I live in home built in the 50's that my parents purchased in 1967. I bought from my stepmother in 1998. I would go to jail or die before I would let someone run me out of here!

Carry on!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## batmaninja (Jul 15, 2010)

You have been wrong on nearly every point you have tried to make regarding real estate. So it doesn't surprise me this is where thing have devolved too.



Bozo said:


> OK. I'm not going to ask why she never moved out of her parents house, but that certainly has to be a rare exception. I guess she was millennial before millennial was cool.


Grandpa died, grand ma got shipped to a senior living facility and momma moved in. We had lived in the same area, but had our own house for a few decades or so. 



Bozo said:


> I can say without doubt all of my neighbors want their kids to move out when grown and have no desire for them to move back in to their house at some later date.


Weren't you on here several years ago, trying to find a date for your daughter? Didnt you make money one of the important screening factors for that _commodity _?

So, fill us in. Did you get fair market value for her? What about your return on your investment, did you get the IRR that you were looking for? :biggrin:


----------



## Bozo (Jun 16, 2004)

Never tried to get my daughter a date, certainly not with any of the dipchits on this board for sure.. Good luck with the train. Let me know if it goes across your family land. I'll buy a ticket just to see the sights since it's such a one of a kind place. I'm sure they'll make it a point of interest along the way.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


----------



## Jerry-rigged (May 21, 2004)

MarkU said:


> What ever happened to that NAFTA highway up 35? That was going to have 4 lanes each way, and railroads.


Moved from the hwy 35 corridor to hwy 59. Have you seen the signage on the road and maps for i69? That is it.


----------



## Rubberback (Sep 9, 2008)

I doubt you will see much at 200 mph. You can call the 2coolers DS no problem with me, but why would you wanna hang out with all us DS anyway?


----------



## batmaninja (Jul 15, 2010)

http://2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/showthread.php?t=292361&highlight=Bonito+daughter

You are right it wasnt you, I was going off of memory. It was a "B" name, that rhymed with yours.


----------



## TrueblueTexican (Aug 29, 2005)

*Exactly what will occur*



MarkU said:


> Dig pit.
> Fill pit with money.


Another Texas Super Collider project

I work land all over the southwest - this project is not an eminent domain issue where private property is concerned.

A landowner would be in his rights to put any non- permission-ed surveyor in the rifle sights. A few well placed shots from the porch at someones feet likely would convince them to leave.


----------



## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

Another big issue is the way they do business. People in the country do business a lot differently than those in the big city. So, when the city boys come calling acting like it's down town Houston, it don't go over well. I was talking to my Mom yesterday about electrification in the country around Florence. She said my Grandfather was po'd to no end about them running lines to his house across his best cotton pasture. When they got power to the house, they still didn't have anything that would use it. 

The thing is, there's only so much space out there for transportation. I wouldn't and don't know anyone that would use a $200 train ride to Dallas. For a tank of gas and 5 hours, I can be there, and still have wheels to get around with. Using the little space we have left for transportation for passenger rail isn't a frugal use in my personal opinion. And yes, I am well aware that my personal opinion and $2.50 will get me a cup of coffee at Starbucks. Or seventy five cents will buy the same thing at McDonalds.


----------



## jtburf (May 26, 2004)

Mont said:


> I wouldn't and don't know anyone that would use a $200 train ride to Dallas. For a tank of gas and 5 hours, I can be there, and still have wheels to get around with.


Mont,

You do not travel for business like some of us do, driving round trip (10 hours) for a 1 hour long meeting is a long unproductive day. Case in point I had a meeting in Dallas back in May, meeting lasted 1 hour, its a 60K job so 200.00 for a round trip ticket makes sense.

John


----------



## Rubberback (Sep 9, 2008)

Mont said:


> Another big issue is the way they do business. People in the country do business a lot differently than those in the big city. So, when the city boys come calling acting like it's down town Houston, it don't go over well. I was talking to my Mom yesterday about electrification in the country around Florence. She said my Grandfather was po'd to no end about them running lines to his house across his best cotton pasture. When they got power to the house, they still didn't have anything that would use it.
> 
> The thing is, there's only so much space out there for transportation. I wouldn't and don't know anyone that would use a $200 train ride to Dallas. For a tank of gas and 5 hours, I can be there, and still have wheels to get around with. Using the little space we have left for transportation for passenger rail isn't a frugal use in my personal opinion. And yes, I am well aware that my personal opinion and $2.50 will get me a cup of coffee at Starbucks. Or seventy five cents will buy the same thing at McDonalds.


LOL! Yup yall carry pistols we carry rifles.


----------



## budreau (Jun 21, 2009)

with technology the way it is do that many people really need to travel to do business ?


----------



## boom! (Jul 10, 2004)

jtburf said:


> Mont,
> 
> You do not travel for business like some of us do, driving round trip (10 hours) for a 1 hour long meeting is a long unproductive day. Case in point I had a meeting in Dallas back in May, meeting lasted 1 hour, its a 60K job so 200.00 for a round trip ticket makes sense.
> 
> John


Afraid to fly?


----------



## TrueblueTexican (Aug 29, 2005)

*One shot rail*

It makes no real business sense between points A&B unless it was trans continental - Houston to Dallas would be better accomplished using the I-75 corridor and cheaper by double decking the roadway, create a high speed roadway HOV with limited entrances /exit ramps.

A go fast lane both ways with minimum speeds of 100MPH. Be a heck of a lot faster than by train where you have to get another form of transportation at terminus.

I think this is a fight HSR will lose as long as landowners band together.


----------



## Rubberback (Sep 9, 2008)

I'm sure the land owners will band together. They have nothing to gain & everything to loose.


----------



## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

jtburf said:


> Mont,
> 
> You do not travel for business like some of us do, driving round trip (10 hours) for a 1 hour long meeting is a long unproductive day. Case in point I had a meeting in Dallas back in May, meeting lasted 1 hour, its a 60K job so 200.00 for a round trip ticket makes sense.
> 
> John


I drive over 500 miles in a normal week. I also don't care to be run through metal detectors, strip searched and everything else that goes with mass transit. It will be just like flying with TSA.


----------



## DEXTER (Jun 28, 2005)

budreau said:


> with technology the way it is do that many people really need to travel to do business ?


Exactly. I do business globally and have yet to leave the US much less Texas and I manufacture very mechanically-technologically advanced products. Technology is a wonderful thing. IMHO the only reason to travel to meetings is for "social" reasons. The service industry is obviously different.


----------



## jtburf (May 26, 2004)

boom! said:


> Afraid to fly?


Not even close, 200K air miles on southwest in 6 months..

8-10 flights a week on average, I flew more that pilots do.

John


----------



## jtburf (May 26, 2004)

Mont said:


> I drive over 500 miles in a normal week. I also don't care to be run through metal detectors, strip searched and everything else that goes with mass transit. It will be just like flying with TSA.


In the business world it is an everyday event. You learn to deal and accept.

Oh yeah 24K miles on a truck that's 8 months old so 500 an week would be a relief.

John


----------



## boom! (Jul 10, 2004)

jtburf said:


> Not even close, 200K air miles on southwest in 6 months..
> 
> 8-10 flights a week on average, I flew more that pilots do.
> 
> John


And you would rather take a train to dallas rather than a 45 minute flight? BTW, I have 442K air miles on southwest and I don't fly 8-10 flights per week. 
Oops, 446K lol
A-List Preferred Hi, 446,757 points


----------



## jtburf (May 26, 2004)

boom! said:


> And you would rather take a train to dallas rather than a 45 minute flight? BTW, I have 442K air miles on southwest and I don't fly 8-10 flights per week.
> 
> Oops, 446K lol
> A-List Preferred Hi, 446,757 points


I live almost in Tomball, the train stop is half as far as Hobby from here and since its only going 1 place security will not be as bad as an airport. So why not a train?

John


----------



## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

Well, in my business world, we make the rules and someone else can sit in a friggin' seat built for a guy half his size. You have to realize that those of us fat boys out there don't care to take up half of someone else's seat either.


----------



## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

jtburf said:


> I live almost in Tomball, the train stop is half as far as Hobby from here and since its only going 1 place security will not be as bad as an airport. So why not a train?
> 
> John


1. It's an inefficient use of land, a limited resource. 
2. It's over priced.
3. There's no way to drive somewhere when you get there.
4. You have to drive to the train station and back.
5. It's a perfect opportunity for terrorists.
6. It can't survive without government money.
7. I will never use it.
8. When it breaks, there's no backup plan
9. It's being forced on us by government
10. The seats are too small for me.


----------



## boom! (Jul 10, 2004)

jtburf said:


> I live almost in Tomball, the train stop is half as far as Hobby from here and since its only going 1 place security will not be as bad as an airport. So why not a train?
> 
> John


Well for a couple of reasons a flight will not destroy private property or cost the taxpayers a ton of money to save you a few minutes.


----------



## goatchze (Aug 1, 2006)

Mont said:


> I drive over 500 miles in a normal week. I also don't care to be run through metal detectors, strip searched and everything else that goes with mass transit. It will be just like flying with TSA.


I don't know how it would be implemented here, but in Europe, there is no security getting on/off trains.



boom! said:


> And you would rather take a train to dallas rather than a 45 minute flight? BTW, I have 442K air miles on southwest and I don't fly 8-10 flights per week.
> Oops, 446K lol
> A-List Preferred Hi, 446,757 points


Not picking sides, but the train should be faster than the flight to Dallas in terms of total trip time. Of course, a lot of that has to do with where you're going in Dallas and where the train station is.

I've traveled a ton in Europe, and in general, four hours was the break-even point when deciding whether to take the plane or train. In short, if you can get there by train in about four hours or less, the total trip time is shorter than a flight would be.

The flight may only be 45 minutes, but you've got to get out to the airport, drop off your bags, go through security, board 30 minutes early, land, taxi, wait for your bags, and then you're out at the airport as opposed to being in town. This is from experience in Europe though, and it could be very different here since our cities are much more spread out.


----------



## batmaninja (Jul 15, 2010)

jtburf said:


> Outside sales before I was caught up in a cost savings plan so public transport would not work for me.


You are in sales.

How can you not make a sales call, from a phone? Or on go2metting? Or on the internet? Or Facetime?

Oh, and I can hear the millennials crying about your carbon foot print right now. :brew2:


----------



## 8seconds (Sep 20, 2005)

goatchze said:


> The flight may only be 45 minutes, but you've got to get out to the airport, drop off your bags, go through security, board 30 minutes early, land, taxi, wait for your bags, and then you're out at the airport as opposed to being in town.


Don't forget weather delays on either end.

Plus a two hour train ride means you can nap on the way up there and/or on the way back and be nice and refreshed either for your meeting or the drive back home.


----------



## jtburf (May 26, 2004)

batmaninja said:


> You are in sales.
> 
> How can you not make a sales call, from a phone? Or on go2metting? Or on the internet? Or Facetime?
> 
> Oh, and I can hear the millennials crying about your carbon foot print right now. :brew2:


It would have been great to not rack miles and miles up on my truck. You can take orders for specialized industrial lubricants and oils over the phone, however you are not closing a sale for these products over the phone.

These products required face to face discussions and demo's at the clients facility.

John


----------



## Mont (Nov 17, 1998)

I made a lot of fishery meetings in Mobile and so did Capt. John who lives close to me. He always flew and I always drove. Normally, he would get home about an hour before me. 

On the subject of driving vs riding, keep in mind that self driving cars are here. Not perfected, not publicly available, but here. That means in 3 or 4 years, they will be common in the higher end vehicles. So, driving fatigue will be less of a player at that point. My Jeep already has adaptive cruise control and automatic braking down to a full stop. Other than the steering components, it's already self driving. 

As to security and safety, my bet is it's part of the TSA. I also saw what a jack rabbit did to a NASCAR at 200 MPH this weekend, and it wasn't pretty. It put a 2 foot diameter hole right through it. With the amount of deer and pigs Texas has, it's only a matter of time until one of those becomes 200 MPH road kill for this train.


----------



## Mr. Saltwater (Oct 5, 2012)

Last month on Texas Central's facebook page someone posted a question about a rumor that TC planned to push for a ban on the discharge of firearms within 1/4 mile of the railway. The comment was quickly removed with no answer given. :question:


----------



## Mr. Saltwater (Oct 5, 2012)

Looks like HSR in California is not going so well.

http://www.bloomberg.com/view/artic...c53&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook


----------

