# meat question for competition guys



## peelin' drag (Oct 21, 2005)

When you select your meat for a cook, do you wait on the local H.E.B or Kroger to put the briskets and ribs on sale. Or how many of you competitors get your meat from someone like Creekstone or Huntspoint meat companies? And do you really see that much difference in taste, texture, etc.? The pricing is quite high. thanks


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## awshannon (May 20, 2007)

:brew2: No.... I usually just try and find the best ones that I can on sale or not. When I cook in cookoffs, I really dont have much time to shop around anyway. Try to fold the the briskets in half and if the two ends touch, its usually going to be a good one....


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## Alwaysinshorts (Jun 14, 2012)

Can you explain why it is good if you can touch two ends together? I've seen lots of brisket that are very thin on one side that can do what you ask, I usually try to avoid the ones that are extremely thick on one side and extremely thin on the other. 

You bbq guys want to tell us what you look for?


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## Jawbreaker (Feb 20, 2007)

I don't cook competitions,but being in the meat business if i did a choice grade or higher would be my baseline.Reason being choice and above grades have more marbling content than most of the briskets run on sale during holidays,(select grade.)The marbling throughout the brisket is what keeps it moist during the cooking process.Although decent briskets can be found that grade select,i would be fooling myself to think i could win any competition by handicapping myself by buying a lower grade of brisket than at least choice grade.With that said,i have cooked a bunch of select grade briskets and still look for two things while shopping for them,a thicker flat than the rest,and the most marbling.


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## NaClH2O (May 25, 2004)

When we go shopping for a competition, we're going just before it starts, usually a Wednesday or Thursday night, and just get the best of what they have out. We try to find briskets that are as uniform as possible (not too thick or thin on the ends), bend well (seem to be more tender), not too much fat on the point, decent marbling and weigh around 10-12 pounds. Bigger briskets aren't a problem, but for our method, it just means a longer cook time. We're already at 10+ hours as is and that's plenty long enough when you have to pull an all-nighter. We always get at least two briskets, too, and slice all of them and pick the best of what we made. 

By the way, this weekend I saw HEB had Prime 1 briskets. I looked at one and just shook my head and walked away - $74. As crazy as it sounds, though, that's not that bad. A regular brisket these days (I assume they're Select) is easily $50 or more.


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

One of the biggest things for me is that I don't smoke any meat that has previously been frozen, fresh only. IME, anything (turkey, pork butt and brisket mainly) that has been frozen is tougher when you smoke it. It may just be my imagination, but that has been my experience. So I don't buy the "on sale" meats and freeze them for cooking later. Buy them just in time to cook. And the ones that get tagged for the competition are the best we can find at the time. Don't want to get beat simply for not using good meat.


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## w_r_ranch (Jan 14, 2005)

Alwaysinshorts said:


> Can you explain why it is good if you can touch two ends together?


I believe it is a 'flex' test of the fat to meat ratio (I do something similar). As we all know, fat is a lot harder/rigid than meat when it is cold & will not flex near as much as muscle will. In addition, why pay $4 per pound for 1 1/2" of fat that will need to be trimmed off/tossed out...

When I am picking out a brisket I look for about a quarter inch of nice white fat & a weight of less than 10 - 12 pounds. That fat cap will keep the brisket moist during that a long smoke. I also like to balance the brisket on the side of my hand to see how much it 'flexes'... the one with the most flex is my pick because it will end up the most tender.

I agree with Hydra, always use meat that has not been frozen... The ice crystals ruin the texture of the meat, IMO.


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## Alwaysinshorts (Jun 14, 2012)

Thanks for the info guys. I will start to look for those indications the next time I buy a brisket. 

Can you guys give a 1, 2, 3, etc of the different grades? Select, choice, etc. I have no idea what is better than another. I know that when I go to a steak house prime is really good and Del Monaco cuts are the best when it comes to ribeyes, but I don't know the rest as it pertains to brisket.


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## StinkBait (May 31, 2004)

Here is how the USDA ranks the beef you buy:


*Prime grade *is almost never found in supermarkets. This beef is produced from young, well-fed beef cattle. It has abundant marbling and is generally sold in restaurants and hotels. Prime roasts and steaks are excellent for dry-heat cooking (broiling, roasting, or grilling).
*Choice grade* is still of high quality, but has less marbling than Prime. Choice roasts and steaks from the loin and rib. They are very tender, juicy, and flavorful. They also do well with dry-heat cooking. Many of the less tender cuts, such as those from the rump, round, and blade chuck, can also be cooked with dry heat if not overcooked. Such cuts will be most tender if â€œbraisedâ€ â€" roasted, or simmered with a small amount of liquid in a tightly covered pan.
*Select grade* is very uniform in quality and normally leaner than the higher grades. It is fairly tender, but, because it has less marbling, it may lack some of the juiciness and flavor of the higher grades. Only the tender cuts (loin, rib, sirloin) should be cooked with dry heat. Other cuts should be marinated before cooking or braised to obtain maximum tenderness and flavor.
*Standard grade* is frequently sold as ungraded or as â€œstore brandâ€ meat.
*Commercial grade *is much the same as Standard grade.
*Utility grade *is seldom, if ever, sold at retail. It is used to make ground beef and processed products.
*Cutter grade* â€" same as above.
*Canner* *grade* â€" same as above.

From http://blog.fooducate.com/2013/11/12/what-do-usda-beef-grades-prime-choice-select-actually-mean/


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## NaClH2O (May 25, 2004)

Beef is graded based on the amount of intramuscular fat, or marbling, that is present. Typically what you'll see is is just Select, Choice and Prime. Select has the least amount of marbling, Prime the most. Price is also reflective of the grading as Prime is the most expensive and Select the cheapest. For example, most briskets are Select and average about $50. I saw a Prime brisket at HEB this past weekend and it was $74. 

We've never used anything but a standard untrimmed brisket, which is likely Select, and we've won some competitions with them. Some people swear that Prime or even Wagyu (a breed of cattle that produces Kobe beef) are the way to go. Wagyu briskets will run well over $100, with some nearing the $200 mark. In my opinion, that sort of defeats the purpose and history of what barbecue is. Barbecue has always been poor man's food. That's why it takes so long to make it good, unlike a good steak. It's the same reason why I don't like competitions that make you put lettuce in your turn-in box and then judge you on how that lettuce is arranged. Who cares? It's about the meat, not a salad. I feel like they're trying to make a poor man's food something it shouldn't be, fancy. Why do you think some of the best barbecue restaurants in the country serve their food on nothing but butcher paper? I say leave the really expensive briskets to those can afford them. I'll stick with the standard brisket and enjoy it just the same.


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## Alwaysinshorts (Jun 14, 2012)

So if I buy a brisket and it doesn't say Prime on it am I to assume that it is Select?


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## NaClH2O (May 25, 2004)

Alwaysinshorts said:


> So if I buy a brisket and it doesn't say Prime on it am I to assume that it is Select?


Sort of. If it doesn't say Choice or Prime, assume it's Select. I would say you'd know by price, but they're all too dang expensive these days.


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## Jawbreaker (Feb 20, 2007)

Select is inspected,but not graded.....it is possible to find beef stamped select that will grade USDA choice,but it doesn't happen often.


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## jss344 (Jan 6, 2006)

look for a stamp on the packaging. should say prime, choice, or select. Pic below shows that it is choice


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## Deany45 (Jul 24, 2011)

Costco has great meat. We use their ribs for competition and their prime brisket if we don't go Wagyu.


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## peelin' drag (Oct 21, 2005)

Well said. thanks


NaClH2O said:


> Beef is graded based on the amount of intramuscular fat, or marbling, that is present. Typically what you'll see is is just Select, Choice and Prime. Select has the least amount of marbling, Prime the most. Price is also reflective of the grading as Prime is the most expensive and Select the cheapest. For example, most briskets are Select and average about $50. I saw a Prime brisket at HEB this past weekend and it was $74.
> 
> We've never used anything but a standard untrimmed brisket, which is likely Select, and we've won some competitions with them. Some people swear that Prime or even Wagyu (a breed of cattle that produces Kobe beef) are the way to go. Wagyu briskets will run well over $100, with some nearing the $200 mark. In my opinion, that sort of defeats the purpose and history of what barbecue is. Barbecue has always been poor man's food. That's why it takes so long to make it good, unlike a good steak. It's the same reason why I don't like competitions that make you put lettuce in your turn-in box and then judge you on how that lettuce is arranged. Who cares? It's about the meat, not a salad. I feel like they're trying to make a poor man's food something it shouldn't be, fancy. Why do you think some of the best barbecue restaurants in the country serve their food on nothing but butcher paper? I say leave the really expensive briskets to those can afford them. I'll stick with the standard brisket and enjoy it just the same.


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## honchogrande2 (Nov 13, 2005)

That was some good education, thanks guys.


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## poco jim (Jun 28, 2010)

peelin' drag said:


> Well said. thanks


 Agreed!


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## Blackgar (Aug 4, 2004)

If you guys want a good competing brisket call Joe at Bolners in San antonio. They trim them where they can be cooked uncovered to completion without getting too lean. I know that they took at least two hours off of my cook time not having to heat the extra pounds of fat. I was really worried till I tried a few with excellent results


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## Big Guns 1971 (Nov 7, 2013)

A cold brisket will not bend in half for anything, Cold fat is stiff. a warm brisket will bend easily. When buying a brisket and doing the bend test make sure it's cold. For comp I buy prime and trim it to about 1/8 th inch of fat cap. I personally like to cook a brisket that has been previously frozen. When the meat freezes the cells expand and when thawed the cell damage causes the meat to be tender. A hydrated cell will also be more tender than a dehydrated cell. Everyone has their reasons and theory's...So here are mine. I honestly can't tell the difference in any grade of brisket once cooked, Each grade will have a slightly different cooking technique. A select or choice will need to cook at a lower temperature with moisture added as to where prime can take more heat and cook faster because of all of the fat in the meat. They all can be cooked to perfection if you know what you are doing. You also have aged brisket that is either wet or dry aged. Other variables are cooking with the fat up or down, Direct or indirect heat. There are so many variables and that is what makes BBQ'ing fun. You also have millions of spice combinations and different smoking woods and different finishing temperatures and to wrap or not to wrap or wrap with butcher paper or foil. Just find what works for you and keep trying to improve every time you cook. Experience is where it's at. I personally have cooked hundreds of briskets in my lifetime and every one cooks different that the one before it. When I have cooked 30 briskets at one time on the same pit some have finished two to three hours sooner than others when they all started at about the same weight and same cooking temperature.


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## Bily Lovec (Sep 26, 2005)

keep in mind when selecting grades, its my understanding that entire animal is graded off one tiny section of the animal..



> *Beef Quality Grades*
> 
> A quality grade is a composite evaluation of factors that affect palatability of meat (tenderness, juiciness, and flavor). These factors include carcass maturity, firmness, texture, and color of lean, and the amount and distribution of marbling within the lean. Beef carcass quality grading is based on (1) degree of marbling and (2) degree of maturity.​*Marbling*
> 
> ...


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