# Did I Screw Up???



## THE JAMMER (Aug 1, 2005)

I have this old custom 264 win mag: 1917 enfield action with custom 26" heavy bbl that my Grandfather had. I started reloading for it about 3-4 months ago, and got some decent 1.25" groups with 95 vmax's and 120 smk's. 

About 2 weeks ago I went to Carter's with some 140 gr Accubonds. One of the loads shot 4 shots into .116" (that's right center to center .116") and the 5th shot was a "flyer" spreading the group all the way out to .45"

Here's my promlem: before I first started shooting the gun I gave it a basic cleaning- not a "full cleaning" because I didn't know what I had. After this last group, I figured I've got a pretty good gun here. So when I cleaned it after shooting that great group (best 4 shot group I"ve ever shot), I said let's get this thing really cleaned. Well about 50 patches in I'm still pulling lots of blue. Another 50 patches and it's starting to get clean. In other words when I shot that great group, the thing was probably pretty filthy.

QUESTION: HAVE I SCREWED IT UP. I haven't been back to the range since I cleaned. Do you think that load will still shoot??

You know they say a Remington 100 will shoot for the rest of your life, unless you clean it. After you clean, all bets are off.

THE JAMMER


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## Screeminreel (Jun 2, 2004)

When my pop used to shoot a LOT back in the late 60's, I remember him coming home and really going over his gun with all of the stinking solvents and stuff. As time wore on through the years this became less and less frequient as he had way more on his plate. Most of the time him and my uncles who all shot the old 03-A3 sporterized rifles, generally shot mil-surp ammo for practice and then simply swapped out the ball tip for a Sierra spitzer. There was hardly ever a time when any of them didn't hit where they were aiming. 

Anyway some years after Pop passed, I got his old rifle out and like you I cleaned the **** out of it literally. Took two days of scrubbing and even getting radical with the Sweets. Ol Pop would generally check it out every year before season and get somewhere in the 1.5 - 2" groups at 100yds and he was good to go. After the cleaning, I had some load I had worked up for a friend and decided to give them a whirl in the now "clean" rifle. After three shots, all I could do was grin and tear up. The ol man would have been proud. When it was over, I had laid five shots into a hole not much bigger than a 45 caliber bullet. Afterwards, I have shot many such groups from it. 

I cannot guarantee that your results will be the same, but I did a similar thing with a pretty ragged Sako I picked up used, that looked like someone drug it down the road to and from their stand. Two full days of cleaning and a box of the cheapest factory Winchester ammo produced a .243" 5 shot group at 100yds. It will also still shoot like that as well. 

Good luck with yours, I wish you all the best.


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## Ernest (May 21, 2004)

I would wager - No. 

While there are tons of old wives tales out there, I think the solid, repeatable, reliable info strongly suggests that only a relatively small % of quality barrels benefit from being dirty or, more specifically, lined with copper deposits. 

Thats not to say some don't shoot better fouled. Many do. But we are talkin serious copper, not mere fouling. 

So, I would wager no way. Clean it up. It will likely shoot ever better. 

I would further suggest - apply the chemical, let dwell, and then patch out. Its gotta have time to work. I like 20 to 30 minutes. Two wet patches, dwell, then two dry. If second dry has any blue, repeat. If I brush, its never, ever bronze or god forbid, stainless. Nylon only cause I am seeking a complete application of a chemical, not manual removal via scrubbing or abrasive action. 

If its real bad, many of the copper products can be basically poured into the barrel and allowed to sit overnight. Butch's can for sure. Don't know about the perhaps more harsh chemicals from folks like Sweets or Montana Extreme. 

Then again, YMMV.


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## baldhunter (Oct 8, 2004)

I doubt if you hurt it any,but if you did,just think of all the fun you can have shooting it until it fouls again.Good Luck.


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## Redfishr (Jul 26, 2004)

Let us know how it turns out......


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## catchysumfishy (Jul 19, 2008)

Ernest said:


> I would wager - No.
> 
> While there are tons of old wives tales out there, I think the solid, repeatable, reliable info strongly suggests that only a relatively small % of quality barrels benefit from being dirty or, more specifically, lined with copper deposits.
> 
> ...


Even with Sweet's earnest, that stuff is POTENT!


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## davidb (May 10, 2006)

Can always get it dirty again.

The only real warning with the ammonia based products is to not ever let it dry out in the barrel. If it does it can etch the steel. Must be the oxidation or an acidic reaction.

Even with the sweets or others I still go back and use JB's thinking it polishes the barrel very slightly each time.


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## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

I have a .257 WBY with a 26" barrrel and ballistics wise, its pretty close to a 264 Winny... It hates a clean shiny barrel with everything I've tried to shoot thru it. It takes at least 5 or 6 rounds after a cleaning to get a good group. I only clean the barrel once a year after deer season now other than just running a clean patch thru it.


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## bigfishtx (Jul 17, 2007)

THE JAMMER said:


> I have this old custom 264 win mag: 1917 enfield action with custom 26" heavy bbl that my Grandfather had. I started reloading for it about 3-4 months ago, and got some decent 1.25" groups with 95 vmax's and 120 smk's.
> 
> About 2 weeks ago I went to Carter's with some 140 gr Accubonds. One of the loads shot 4 shots into .116" (that's right center to center .116") and the 5th shot was a "flyer" spreading the group all the way out to .45"
> 
> ...


LOL, my first .264 was an old Model 70, and the barrel was pretty much shot out I guess. She would shoot worht a **** if you cleaned the barrel. That **** thing liked a fouled barrel!
If that happens run a box of Barnes Bullets through her, then throw the copper remover away!


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## THE JAMMER (Aug 1, 2005)

Well I've been holding off on this, because the results weren't good. After thoroughly cleaning 264 and re shooting it, I couldn't get that load to shoot under about 1.4"

This is why we all need to be in the bullet, powder, primer, brass business.

Back to the range. As my kid would say, "bummer dude"

THE "SHOULD A LEFT IT ALONE" JAMMER


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## Screeminreel (Jun 2, 2004)

I wouldn't toss that load just yet. You might try seating the bullet just a little longer than you had it like around .005" or so and see how they shoot. Sometimes the lead is gunked up really good and when you scrub out all of it you loose that bit of contact as the bullet leaves the case. Might just be you can still salvage the load simply by trying a different length. 

Definitely worth a try before dumping a good load.


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