# Another snake ID



## 69RRVERT (Sep 21, 2006)

I found this dude while geocaching around Angleton today. The first pic is what I seen first about a foot from my head while walking around the tree base looking for the cache. Coincidently, the name of the cache was "Dedicated to Cobra98". Although it was not a cobra, you would have thought it was when I first discovered it. Ordinarily, my motto is "a dead snake is a good snake", but thanks to all of the snake ID post on this site, I have become a little more educated about the purpose of them. Once I flushed it out with my hiking pole I let it slither away in the grass. I say it's a chicken snake, but knowing my luck it is probably a "rattle moccason corralhead" that I let get away. Thanks - 69rrvert


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## yep (Jul 25, 2006)

I think it's a Texas rat snake


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## activescrape (Jan 8, 2006)

Poison!


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## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

69RRVERT said:


> Ordinarily, my motto is "a dead snake is a good snake", but thanks to all of the snake ID post on this site, I have become a little more educated about the purpose of them.


you've made my day. have some green on me.

it's hard to be certain from the photo, but that's a texas rat snake. any rat snake is a good snake. they eat little rodents and other such vermin, and they are non-venomous.


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## Sea-Slug (May 28, 2004)

Copper-Head!


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## Texxan1 (Dec 31, 2004)

Texas Rat... Harmless but they have a very bad disposition normally lol


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## activescrape (Jan 8, 2006)

mastercylinder said:


> you've made my day. have some green on me.
> 
> it's a little hard to tell from the photo, but i'm pretty sure that's a texas rat snake. they're a good snake.


 Are you positive Bruce? Looks like a pit viper. The only thing it could be if it is, is a cottonmouth.


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## Saltstalker (Jun 6, 2008)

Looks like a copperhead to me , see that triangular head?


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## 69RRVERT (Sep 21, 2006)

Last week, while looking for a cache named "The Bend", I just about stepped on a corral snake. Thankfully I saw it move as I was about to take a step. Needless to say, there was a little "bending" going on once I saw it. It too slithered away into the grass. Geocaching could be hazardous to your underware. Thanks - CachinSpree


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## Sea-Slug (May 28, 2004)

Definately no doubt about it a pit viper, notice the triangular head, and Copper heads are pit vipers. 100% copperhead. All venomous snakes in Texas except coral snakes are pit vipers.


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## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

activescrape said:


> Are you positive Bruce? Looks like a pit viper. The only thing it could be if it is, is a cottonmouth.





Sea-Slug said:


> Definately no doubt about it a pit viper, notice the triangular head, and Copper heads are pit vipers. 100% copperhead. All venomous snakes in Texas except coral snakes are pit vipers.





activescrape said:


> Poison!





Sea-Slug said:


> Copper-Head!


y'all quit it. you're only fueling these guys fears and ignorance about one of the most specialized and beautiful creatures on earth.


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## boatmanjohn (Mar 18, 2009)

That is a great photo of the defensive stance of a Texas Rat Snake! Nice pic! Did you log a find or was it under the snake?!
You can tell you have him in a corner and he knows it!
While he looks very intimidating, he/she knows it. Most snakes will spread the back of their jaws to give that classic triangle shape and even vibrate their tails to imitate the venemous species as much as possible. Hognose snakes are the best at defensive tactics. They will spread their necks and jaws to look like a Cobra, rattle their tails, hiss, even strike WITH A CLOSED MOUTH for most species! They are awesome! If that doesn't work, they roll over on their back, with mouth open and tongue out to play dead. Very realistic, too. The giveaway is that when you roll them back upright they immediately go right back upside-down!


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## Texxan1 (Dec 31, 2004)

I think the majority of people are absolutely clueless about reptiles.. You guys need to invest in a field guide, or as your resident experts on snakes.. Namely Mastercylinder and I... 

If you dont know what it is, dont guess and say its a venomous snake.. Look around first geeeeze.


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## 69RRVERT (Sep 21, 2006)

Sea-Slug said:


> Definately no doubt about it a pit viper, notice the triangular head, and Copper heads are pit vipers. 100% copperhead. All venomous snakes in Texas except coral snakes are pit vipers.


The picture makes it look a little copper, but it was more black that any thing else. Definatly not a copperhaed. I know what they look like. My in-laws have a lot of them around their house. I noticed the head as well, but its tale was small and pointy and not blunt. I believe a cottonmouth has a blunt tale. I kept hearing this clicking noise and noticed the tip of its tale rattleing against the bark. If it is poisonous, it would have to be a moccason. Thanks - 69rrvert


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## 69RRVERT (Sep 21, 2006)

boatmanjohn said:


> That is a great photo of the defensive stance of a Texas Rat Snake! Nice pic! Did you log a find or was it under the snake?!
> You can tell you have him in a corner and he knows it!


I was able to log the find. Thanks - 69rrvert (CachinSpree)


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## Sea-Slug (May 28, 2004)

I didn't say kill it fool- I just letting you know its a copperhead. Go around picking up triangle headed snakes like moccasins-rattlers-copperheads and you won't be laughing long. Anybody who can't ID that snake from its markings and headshape is blind or a dummy! Beautiful snake, I did not say kill it. If you will do a little research-you will see all Pit Vipers are venomous, and the 3 varieties found in Texas are Copperhead-moccasin-rattler. All have large-triangular shaped heads. The coloring is also a dead give-a-way. It is unusual but not unheard of to see one in a tree.


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## 69RRVERT (Sep 21, 2006)

Here is anothe rpicture of the snake. Thanks - 69rrvert


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## Texxan1 (Dec 31, 2004)

Sea-Slug,

Im telling you your WRONG about what it is.. IT IS NOT A COPPERHEAD...It is however a harmless texas rat snake

Elaphe obsoleta lindheimerii . Look it up


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## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

Sea-Slug said:


> I didn't say kill it fool- I just letting you know its a copperhead.


if you think that's a copperhead, you should do yourself a favor and refrain from responding in snake threads in the future. you're coming off as a fool.

*that is not a copperhead.*


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## Sea-Slug (May 28, 2004)

Here are 2 pics of a Texas Rat Snake-notice an elongated head. Here also are 2 of a copperhead- notice the triangular head. You be the judge.


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## Texxan1 (Dec 31, 2004)

I am the judge lol.

and once again, your wrong


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## Sea-Slug (May 28, 2004)

MC-An apology is in order I believe,


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## sweenyite (Feb 22, 2009)

Looks like another meal for a cajun.


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## Roger (Aug 12, 2005)

The shape of his head and the designs and colors on his back = Copperhead

and no they don't taste like chicken


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## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

Roger said:


> The shape of his head and the designs and colors on his back = Copperhead


i sure am glad you guys didn't try to go to medical school.


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## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

Sea-Slug said:


> MC-An apology is in order I believe,


thank you, but it's not necessary to apologize.


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## Roger (Aug 12, 2005)

MC, your still not gonna convince me that's rat snake


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## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

Roger said:


> MC, your still not gonna convince me that's rat snake


i'm not going to try to convince you of anything. for all i care, you can choose to believe that that's the serpentine ghost of richard nixon, if that's what pleases you.


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## Sea-Slug (May 28, 2004)

mastercylinder said:


> thank you, but it's not necessary to apologize.


I kinda meant it the other way around. LOL! Rat snakes do not have triangular heads, its a fact, plain and simple. Look at the pics. Surely someone on here is a zoo-ologist or a herpatologist and can settle this. Some snakes are able to flatten out thier heads and make them appear triangular, thus appearing venomous to predators, But to my knowledge, in Texas only a bull snake can do this. so I am still convinced it is a copperhead, but I wish we had a pic of the tail. The last 2 pics I posted were copperhead- clearly a perfect head shape match to the ID pic. The first 2 pics are Texas Rat Snake, long,clearly not triangular head. Next we would go to the tail, but it is not visible. It would taper to a long point on a rat snake and taper to a bluntish short point on a copperhead.


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## Texxan1 (Dec 31, 2004)

How about this Sea-Slug.

I am the resident herpetologist.. I graduated from Sul Ross with a BS in Biology and New Mexico State University with a MS in Natural Resource Management with a emphasis in herpetology... 

IT is a TEXAS RATSNAKE


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## Rusty S (Apr 6, 2006)

That is a Texas Rat Snake probably coming out of hibernation, I will give you the first picture looks a little scary, but the second picture is a no brainer-round eyes red tongue- Texas Rat Snake. I have had my collectors license going on 12 years now, used to trade a lot of snakes, now the serpentine ghost of tricky dick-that is classic. rs


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## Sea-Slug (May 28, 2004)

Then I will differ to the experts.


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## Texxan1 (Dec 31, 2004)

ROFLMAO..

Its all good, not everyone can be right.


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## Rusty S (Apr 6, 2006)

Not to say a Texas Rat Snake won't pop you, they are a little on the bad attitude side, nothing like my favorites--bulls and indigos. rs


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## boatmanjohn (Mar 18, 2009)

boatmanjohn said:


> That is a great photo of the defensive stance of a Texas Rat Snake! Nice pic! Did you log a find or was it under the snake?!
> You can tell you have him in a corner and he knows it!
> While he looks very intimidating, he/she knows it. Most snakes will spread the back of their jaws to give that classic triangle shape and even vibrate their tails to imitate the venemous species as much as possible. Hognose snakes are the best at defensive tactics. They will spread their necks and jaws to look like a Cobra, rattle their tails, hiss, even strike WITH A CLOSED MOUTH for most species! They are awesome! If that doesn't work, they roll over on their back, with mouth open and tongue out to play dead. Very realistic, too. The giveaway is that when you roll them back upright they immediately go right back upside-down!


Yet people still think that the "triangle head" MUST be venomous! Or a Bull Snake. I guess I type just to exersize my fingers! :tongue:


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## seabo (Jun 29, 2006)

lol. for a copperhead thats a record. i'v never seen one in a tree, usually on the ground, but that head looks piosionous.


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## sweenyite (Feb 22, 2009)

Cool snake. One thing's for sure, it ain't a rattler, coral snake, copperhead, or moccasin...so it is a friend.


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## boatmanjohn (Mar 18, 2009)

sweenyite said:


> Cool snake. One thing's for sure, it ain't a rattler, coral snake, copperhead, or moccasin...so it is a friend.


Thank you. This is the philosophy I try to teach people who just generally want to know which snakes are "good" or "bad". I teach them to learn what the 4 venomous snakes are (Texas residents) and if they can memorize only those 4, they can usually quickly determine the "bad" from the "good".


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## 4thbreak (May 20, 2005)

seabo said:


> lol. for a copperhead thats a record. i'v never seen one in a tree, usually on the ground, but that head looks piosionous.


It would be a record on size as well. Those rat snakes sure can get pretty big.


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## Sea-Slug (May 28, 2004)

OK guy's, you don't have to rub it in. I've eat major crow on this one. Dang misleading picture!


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## monster (Apr 11, 2008)

I was always taught that the poisonous snakes in N. America (excluding Coral Snakes) have triangular heads. That one looks pretty triangular to me.


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## Rusty S (Apr 6, 2006)

monster said:


> I was always taught that the poisonous snakes in N. America (excluding Coral Snakes) have triangular heads. That one looks pretty triangular to me.


God forbid you see a hognose. rs


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## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

Sea-Slug said:


> OK guy's, you don't have to rub it in. I've eat major crow on this one. *Dang misleading picture*!





seabo said:


> lol. for a copperhead thats a record. i'v never seen one in a tree, usually on the ground, *but that head looks piosionous*.





monster said:


> *I was always taught that the poisonous snakes in N. America (excluding Coral Snakes) have triangular heads. *That one looks pretty triangular to me.


rat snakes have a more triangular head than many non-venomous snakes because their jaws are wider so that they can swallow as big a rat as possible. rat snakes get pretty big, so they need to dine on big rats. i can see why the shape of his head in the photo confused some of you.

rat snakes are excellent climbers, too. it's common to find them in trees.

crow ain't so bad, sea-slug. i've eaten it plenty of times. :wink:


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## elkarcher (Jun 5, 2006)

Copperhead


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## jay07ag (Mar 22, 2006)

Dat be a Texas Rat Snake....see the 2nd pic from the side, where the snake isnt posing so much...also look at the coloration


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## coastalbend74 (Feb 20, 2008)

That is no ratsnake!

COPPERHEAD!


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## Mo City Rick (Sep 3, 2008)

I'm just glad it wasn't a spider... Oh man, do I hate spiders...

Rick


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## Hevy Dee (May 26, 2004)

*Well ...*

I just want to mention how much I like the "ID my snake" threads. Enjoyed it boys.... - Hevy


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## boom! (Jul 10, 2004)

It's all good, I think Mastersnake got one wrong a while back that could have gotten ugly.


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## bobber (May 12, 2005)

We had a very similar looking snake coiled up by our house a few years ago. My neigbor chopped its head off with his shovel and chucked the body in the ravine. I told him that it was probably just a rat snake. He went over to the garage and pulled a big triangular head out of a ball jar and pulled its mount open. Out popped two long fangs. I was dumbfounded as the kids and dog play in this area.


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## rainbowrunner (Dec 31, 2005)

Ratsnake for sure. That would be a world record copperhead. Note the redish color. Copperhead would be a more yellow/gold/copper color.


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## Brine Jake (Aug 12, 2005)

Sea-Slug said:


> Rat snakes do not have triangular heads, its a fact, plain and simple. Look at the pics. Surely someone on here is a zoo-ologist or a herpatologist and can settle this.


This is _Elaphe obsoleta lindheimeri_, aka Lindheimer's Ratsnake, Texas Ratsnake, Chicken Snake, no doubt about it.
True, its head is in an usual pose for the species, but they do have mildly triangular heads--just not normally as abrupt as it looks here . The steel gray head color is unmistakable in spite of the flattening. I will admit, I never saw one do this before, but everything about this ID's it as a Lindheimer's. Nothing, zero, zippo, nada, zilch about it ID's it as a copperhead. I think the flick just happened to catch it as it was hissing with its lips a little flared. When alarmed, they may vibrate their tail, open mouth wi-i-ide, hiss, strike or all the above.


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## rockhound76 (Feb 22, 2007)

"triangle head" is a good rule of thumb for kids, but almost any snake will flare when threatened. 

Nice snake.


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## bear hide (Feb 14, 2008)

Definately a pit viper. They are the only species of snakes around here with an arrowhead shaped head, fat body, and skinny, or rattle tail.


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## Texxan1 (Dec 31, 2004)

You folks need to pay attention.. THIS IS A NON VENOMOUS SNAKE>> PERIOD 

Geeze, read all the posts already


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## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

i give up.


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## snappy3923 (Jul 26, 2006)

That don't look like no Rat Snake to me!!! Look at that pit viper head!! However, I've never seen a Copper Head that big either.


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## a couple more (Mar 19, 2009)

The first photo is a little misleading, looks to be copper in color, plus the head. The second set of pics tend to be better for an ID. I am by no means a snake master, but my first thought when i seen the first photo was copperhead.


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## Snap Draggin (Nov 11, 2007)

It's a rattle tailed coppermoccasin. I'm with the non-venomous rat snake voters.


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## Razzorduck (Oct 14, 2005)

Not a pit Viper!!!!!!!
Rat eater in my book


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## bear hide (Feb 14, 2008)

Texxan1 said:


> How about this Sea-Slug.
> 
> I am the resident herpetologist.. I graduated from Sul Ross with a BS in Biology and New Mexico State University with a MS in Natural Resource Management with a emphasis in herpetology...
> 
> IT is a TEXAS RATSNAKE


Well, there ya go. Many creatures mimic more threatening species as a defence mechanism.


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## aggiemulletboy (May 31, 2006)

Sea-Slug said:


> I didn't say kill it fool- I just letting you know its a copperhead. Go around picking up triangle headed snakes like moccasins-rattlers-copperheads and you won't be laughing long. Anybody who can't ID that snake from its markings and headshape is blind or a dummy! Beautiful snake, I did not say kill it. If you will do a little research-you will see all Pit Vipers are venomous, and the 3 varieties found in Texas are Copperhead-moccasin-rattler. All have large-triangular shaped heads. The coloring is also a dead give-a-way. It is unusual but not unheard of to see one in a tree.


 Pretty much all nonvenomous snakes can have triangular heads. They flatten out their heads to make themselves look larger, and thus more intimidating. Nerodia do it, Thamnophis do it, Elaphe do it, I could go on and on all day.

And it isn't a copperhead. No hourglass marks, and the coloration is all wrong.

If anyone is looking for the most complete Texas snake book, Werler and Dixon have a book called Texas Snakes that has color photos of different morphs, subspecies, etc. of just about any snake in Texas, along with a map showing locales where they have been found and the general range and a full life history, description, and more than most people would want to know. It is rather expensive, but it is really worth having. It's a bit cheaper on the link below or I'm sure you can find it on amazon or something.

http://www.utexas.edu/utpress/books/wertex.html


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## Brine Jake (Aug 12, 2005)

If anyone is looking for the most complete Texas snake book, Werler and Dixon have a book called Texas Snakes that has color photos of different morphs, subspecies, etc. of just about any snake in Texas, along with a map showing locales where they have been found and the general range and a full life history, description, and more than most people would want to know. It is rather expensive, but it is really worth having. It's a bit cheaper on the link below or I'm sure you can find it on amazon or something.

http://www.utexas.edu/utpress/books/wertex.html[/quote]

For a more compact, less technical, cheaper choice, I like Alan Tennant's 
FIELD GUIDE TO TEXAS SNAKES all right.

Dr. John Werler ws a great guy. We used to bug the heck out of him back in '50's when he was reptile curator. I need to get this volume just to
commemorate that.


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## aggiemulletboy (May 31, 2006)

Brine Jake said:


> If anyone is looking for the most complete Texas snake book, Werler and Dixon have a book called Texas Snakes that has color photos of different morphs, subspecies, etc. of just about any snake in Texas, along with a map showing locales where they have been found and the general range and a full life history, description, and more than most people would want to know. It is rather expensive, but it is really worth having. It's a bit cheaper on the link below or I'm sure you can find it on amazon or something.
> 
> http://www.utexas.edu/utpress/books/wertex.html


For a more compact, less technical, cheaper choice, I like Alan Tennant's 
FIELD GUIDE TO TEXAS SNAKES all right.

Dr. John Werler ws a great guy. We used to bug the heck out of him back in '50's when he was reptile curator. I need to get this volume just to
commemorate that.[/QUOTE]

Good book as well. Andy Price's book on Texas venomous snakes is pretty good too.


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## B2 (Jun 11, 2004)

That snake is doing his best to look poisonous. But the pattern, the grey head, the attitude, and being up a tree can only mean one thing.

Rat Snake


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## texasjellyfish (Jan 23, 2006)

thats a harmless snake, even the poisionus snakes are harmless if you leave them alone
here is its cloned sister, they like eggs also

http://2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/showthread.php?t=182686


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## AggyCat (Apr 21, 2005)

monster said:


> I was always taught that the poisonous snakes in N. America (excluding Coral Snakes) have triangular heads. That one looks pretty triangular to me.


Just about any snake can make his head look triangular when he/she is in a defensive posture. Hognose, bull snakes, water snakes, Texas Browns, and as we have been educated on today, even rat snakes. Triangular heads are no way to identify a poisonous snake.


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## BondBroker (Aug 1, 2008)

It's definitely a rat snake. They have a more triangular head than most non pit vipers and in the third pic you can see that the pupils in the snake's eyes are round. The pit viper usually has a slit eye, like a cat.


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## jay07ag (Mar 22, 2006)

that being said...he is doing a great job at trying to appear venomous!


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## seattleman1969 (Jul 17, 2008)

Texxan1 said:


> How about this Sea-Slug.
> 
> I am the resident herpetologist.. I graduated from Sul Ross with a BS in Biology and New Mexico State University with a MS in Natural Resource Management with a emphasis in herpetology...
> 
> IT is a TEXAS RATSNAKE


It'd help to tell them why I suppose.

The second picture, that is so hotly contended, shows a Texas Rat Snake as MANY have already stated, in a DEFENSIVE POSTURE.

The Texas Rat Snake, although not venomous, will often try to defend itself by bluffing that it is venomous. They will rear the front of their body off the ground in a "S" curve like a rattler prepared to strike, rattle their rattle-less tail against leaves to make a rattlesnake like sound, and flatten their head (Consider it as the snake is making a face at you) to APPEAR to be more dangerous than they actually are. Once all this fails they will usually try to get away although some will continue the bluff and make mock or real strikes (Mouth closed or open is the difference).

You cannot judge a snake venomous or not simply by the shape of the head as they can and WILL change the shape of their heads depending upon posture, mood, etc. If you look closely at the picture in contention as well you cannot see ANY pits so the person stating repeatedly that this is a "Pit viper" you are dead wrong.... no pits, no pit viper.


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## B2 (Jun 11, 2004)

This is a medium sized 2 year old rat. She's been in worse moods, but is fairly perturbed in these photos. Check out the head.


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## KILT610 (Feb 24, 2006)

I don't have any degrees but I do have a lifetime in the outdoors and it is definately a Texas rat snake.


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## Sow Trout (Jun 28, 2004)

Kill it.


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## Rusty S (Apr 6, 2006)

Sow Trout said:


> Kill it.


I saw monumental strides in this post from a year ago, people and outdoor enthusiast are getting educated on snakes by Thomas, Bruce, and our new herpotoligist Aggiemulletboy, and then came you--how dissappointing. rs


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## Profish00 (May 21, 2004)

I read today, many geocoachers are missing..


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## luckystrike3 (Sep 14, 2007)

It's a Texas Rat Snake I had one for a pet.


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## Slightly Dangerous (May 21, 2004)

76 posts about a snake. That has to be the single most famous snake in the state of Texas. Pretty darned obvious that most of you have never had to go fetch the eggs from the hen house.


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## Rusty S (Apr 6, 2006)

Slightly Dangerous said:


> 76 posts about a snake. That has to be the single most famous snake in the state of Texas. Pretty darned obvious that most of you have never had to go fetch the eggs from the hen house.


 My grandma would make pick up the eggs and the snake when I was 6 years old, and turn the snake loose at the creek, I aint no sissy boy SD. rs


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## Brine Jake (Aug 12, 2005)

Rusty S said:


> My grandma would make pick up the eggs and the snake when I was 6 years old, and turn the snake loose at the creek, I aint no sissy boy SD. rs


Permit me to complement your enlightened Grandma and congratulate you on your good fortune. We had us some good'uns, rest their souls.


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## Blue Water Ho (May 21, 2004)

Ok Im not gonna raed 7 pages about it right now as Im soon going to bed but, first time I saw the picture I said copperhead. Is that the geneal vote? I like all reptiles, have had several as pets, thanks for the no kill.


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## sandollr (Jun 6, 2008)

I picked up eggs from the hen house when I was just a lil crapper ... but I guarantee there were no snakes there ... cause my grandaddy would never have allowed a snake in his hen house.

That makes me grin :biggrin: ... cause that's the way my grandaddy was.


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## TheAnt (Jul 1, 2008)

obviously a tree snake... it's in a tree


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## CCducker (Nov 21, 2008)

I have been sitting back and watching this thread go for a couple days now...

I also am well versed in reptiles in the state of Texas. Mastercylinder, Texxan1, Rusty S you guys are 100% correct but of course I dont have to tell you guys that. Let me try another approach to this though to try and educate the non-believers and get this settled once and for all. Ill use lots of pretty pictures so things can be easily understood.....

Most nonvenomous snakes don't have a way in which to defend themselves against much larger creatures. So they play off the stupidity of their attacker by pretending to be something they are not. Most Nonvenomous snakes in the US attempt to be Pit Vipers.

Heres a Texas Rat snake being a Rat Snake









Heres a Texas Rat Snake pretending to be something different.









The hognose snake is unique among north american snakes. The snake itself is very docile but its displays would be taken as the exact opposite. Hognose snakes are very mildly venomous but this venom is in no way dangerous to man and since hognose snakes rarely bite and do not have "Fangs" as they are normally thought of it is not an issue anyway. Note: hognose strikes frequently feign strikes without the intention of actually making contact.

Here is Hognose Snake being a Hognose Snake









Heres one being a Pit Viper...









Heres one flattening its head out trying to look big and mean. Hognose snakes will also curl their tail up and vibrate to look like a rattle.









And as a last resort.....Hognose' will play dead.









Here is a method of identifying Venomous snakes that is not as frequently taught-Look at the eyes (from a distance)

Both of these snakes are Nonvenomous snakes in defensive posture. These snakes both have very round eyes set out on their heads with a very round pupil.

















Both of these venomous Texas snakes have eyes sunk in with a "Cats eye" pupil.
















This may seem like a hard way to identify a poisonous snake. But from 10 feet or so on an average sized specimen it is fairly easy to tell.

BUT

If you arent sure for god sakes just leave him be call someone to move him dont KILL it.

3 things to remember when dealing with snakes

1. Dont be ignorant killing a snake is like letting 100 rats wreak havoc.
2. All snakes do much more GOOD than bad
3. It can strike faster than you can move, so keep your distance! Unless you are positive of what it is.

TO SUM UP

Its a Rat Snake


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## Pocboy (Aug 12, 2004)

So, what if someone were walking along (not me of course) and they saw a rat snake right under their feet and in the process of jumping and screaming like a little girl they landed funny and twisted their ankle or tweaked their back? How could you then claim that it was a harmless snake since it actually did cause harm to someone? Just sayin'.


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## Fishin' Soldier (Dec 25, 2007)

No degree but Love snakes and have learned over the years. Rat snake or chicken snake as I was brought up knowing them as. They sure do like them eggs. First time I saw one in the coop it took like 8 seconds to get all the way out the hole. HE WAS BIG! I was like 6. Don't think he won't bite you either. In defense they have lots of needle like teethand they have some pressure when they are big. Had a 5footer get ahold of my hand when I was 12. It bled alot. He was after a baby squirrell and about 50 blue jays ran him off and knocked him out of the tree. Caught the snake and raised the squirrell. The squirrell died a few years later by neighbors dog.


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## BlueWaveCapt (Jan 8, 2007)

I see the good in non-venomous snakes like this here TX Rat Snake. I agree 100% with the logic that it doesn't need to be killed.

BUT...if I have a snake (of any kind) making a visit to my yard where my 4 year old daughter and her 3 month old sister play on a regular basis...it's gone. I will kill it. I don't like to do so, but I don't want my girls to have snakes (venomous or not) playing in the yard with them. 

Call me all the names you want...flame me up and down...but that's how it is.


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## seattleman1969 (Jul 17, 2008)

Pocboy said:


> So, what if someone were walking along (not me of course) and they saw a rat snake right under their feet and in the process of jumping and screaming like a little girl they landed funny and twisted their ankle or tweaked their back? How could you then claim that it was a harmless snake since it actually did cause harm to someone? Just sayin'.


If a person did something so silly it would not be the snake at fault, it would be that person's uncontrollable fear and ignorance of snakes that was at fault. I would expect that person to learn two things:

1. Better situational awareness would have kept him from being in that position in the first place and

2. A little education about snakes would perhaps help to alleviate that person's fear of the unknown.

Seriously folks, most everyone on this board considers themselves an outdoorsman, right? Why not educate yourself about ALL of the outdoors rather than a very narrowly defined specific area? General knowledge goes a long way to you co-existing with nature on a much larger scale and a much more satisfying outdoor experience due to an expanded appreciation of all things natural.


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## CoastalOutfitters (Aug 20, 2004)

grab them by the tail and crack them like a whip, if their head pops off then they are............................dead


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## BondBroker (Aug 1, 2008)

The cat eye pupil isn't a sure sign of a snake being poisonous, just a pit viper. Cobras and coral snakes have round pupils and they are venomous, boas and pythons have the slit eye and they are not venomous. I used to be in the reptile business when I was a kid in West Texas. We were lucky there, if it was harmfully poisonous, it had a rattle. The hognose actually has mild venom, but they are rear fanged like a coral snake, you would have to stick your finger in its mouth to be able to touch the fangs (or teeth that they use to chew the poison into toads). Even if they do manage to get their fangs through your skin it will only cause redness and some mild swelling that will go away in a day or two. Even though a coral snake is rear fanged, I would not recommend picking one up; they have a very strong neuro-toxic poison. Best advice, if you are not absolutely sure what it is, don't pick it up. I used to catch snakes in West Texas with my hands all the time with no worries about poison. Here in East Texas I'm not so sure of my identification abilities so I leave them alone. If it's a rattlesnake, step back, they strike with lightning quickness. Even though most rattlers have only hemotoxic poison they still cause tissue death and can kill you if you're far enough from medical attention. Just make sure you let them live, they have a very important purpose in our ecosystem.


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## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

CCducker said:


> I also am well versed in reptiles in the state of Texas. Mastercylinder, Texxan1, Rusty S you guys are 100% correct but of course I dont have to tell you guys that. *Let me try another approach to this though to try and educate the non-believers and get this settled once and for all.* Ill use lots of pretty pictures so things can be easily understood.....


 very nice post. good luck.


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## Pocboy (Aug 12, 2004)

*My bad*

I guess I should have put a  with my post so people would know I was just kidding. Folks, snakes are apparently nothing to laugh about....................:slimer:


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## ZenDaddy (May 22, 2004)

bear hide said:


> Well, there ya go. Many creatures mimic more threatening species as a defence mechanism.


With me and some other folks on this board they may want to reconsider their defence mechanism. Maybe they should try mimicing a bunny rabbit, I rarely kill those.


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## Levelwind (Apr 15, 2005)

BlueWaveCapt said:


> I see the good in non-venomous snakes like this here TX Rat Snake. I agree 100% with the logic that it doesn't need to be killed.
> 
> BUT...if I have a snake (of any kind) making a visit to my yard where my 4 year old daughter and her 3 month old sister play on a regular basis...it's gone. I will kill it. I don't like to do so, but I don't want my girls to have snakes (venomous or not) playing in the yard with them.
> 
> Call me all the names you want...flame me up and down...but that's how it is.


Why not do the girls a favor and catch and relocate them (carefully) ?

A high percentage of venomous snake bites treated are due to the victim screwing with or trying to kill the snake.


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## seattleman1969 (Jul 17, 2008)

Pocboy said:


> I guess I should have put a  with my post so people would know I was just kidding. Folks, snakes are apparently nothing to laugh about....................:slimer:


Well, I was actually trying to be a little funny too but obviously my first career is not comedian! However, I was serious in the rest of the post... and I stand by the fact that learning about ALL of our environment allows for a far richer experience!


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## BlueWaveCapt (Jan 8, 2007)

Levelwind said:


> Why not do the girls a favor and catch and relocate them (carefully) ?
> A high percentage of venomous snake bites treated are due to the victim screwing with or trying to kill the snake.


Because I don't want them back. If they are dead...they won't come back. If I "relocate them" they could (and many times will) come back. I don't want my girls being bitten by any snake, or being scared to play in our yard.

I also kill spiders, wasps, bees, and more around my house/yard. ALL of those creatures have very good qualities, but (unfortunately for them) they also are aggravating creatures that bite/sting curious little girls. So...they die to.

For the record - I don't kill snakes outside of my own home. At the ranch, deer lease, vacation, hiking, camping, etc... I don't kill them. In those situations I am usually in THEIR territory, and I prefer to leave them alone and move on about my business. When they come into MY territory (my house/yard)...then we have a problem.


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## YoungGun1 (Jan 8, 2009)

Hate to call out Texxan1 or MC but that is 100% NOT a Texas Rat Snake! A Texas Rat Snake Does NOT have a spade-shaped head like the posted picture. By what I can see, this is a Copperhead.

If you think this is a TEXAS RAT SNAKE I will wager $500 that you are wrong...

Any takers?


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## BlueWaveCapt (Jan 8, 2007)

YoungGun1 said:


> Hate to call out Texxan1 or MC but that is 100% NOT a Texas Rat Snake! A Texas Rat Snake Does NOT have a spade-shaped head like the posted picture. By what I can see, this is a Copperhead.
> 
> If you think this is a TEXAS RAT SNAKE I will wager $500 that you are wrong...
> Any takers?


DUDE...you might want to go edit that post, and/or read the previous 9 pages of discussion.


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## BIG PAPPA (Apr 1, 2008)

*eco system Snakes*

I'm not that good, i was stuck between Rat Snake and Copper head. Couldn't see the eyes either. I would have caught it and checked for fangs. Fangs = Custom handmade knife sheaths. No Fangs =another day on Big Pappas place. If you're looking for a great Snake Grabber, Pide Piper Welding make the best I've ever used. they're not very good for small snakes though.


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## seattleman1969 (Jul 17, 2008)

YoungGun1 said:


> Hate to call out Texxan1 or MC but that is 100% NOT a Texas Rat Snake! A Texas Rat Snake Does NOT have a spade-shaped head like the posted picture. By what I can see, this is a Copperhead.
> 
> If you think this is a TEXAS RAT SNAKE I will wager $500 that you are wrong...
> 
> Any takers?


How will you be giving my my $500? I can meet you halfway if you like.... I am in austin, where are you?


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## tail-chaser (May 5, 2007)

CCDUCKER,

very nice post.


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## Texxan1 (Dec 31, 2004)

I will take that bet... YOU BEST PAY UP


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## BonesNTX (Aug 14, 2006)

I live in Sargent on 1 acre adjoining river.

NO snakes have ever lived on my property for about 50 yrs now.

Today I have a 3 yr old and a 7 yr old and no snakes livee on my property.

Some have tried but none do.

We don't have "nice " snakes.

I could go on....


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## bigdaddyriverrat (May 24, 2004)

It's an Anaconda, I saw it on TV. I am sure of it.


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## txranger (Jun 23, 2005)

I believe it is a Texas Rat Snake. I think the head appears to be more triangular shaped than it actually is because of the markings down the back of the head. Compare to these pics, particularly the first pic, all of which are Texas Rat Snakes...


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## ELF62 (Dec 24, 2004)

YoungGun1 said:


> Hate to call out Texxan1 or MC but that is 100% NOT a Texas Rat Snake! A Texas Rat Snake Does NOT have a spade-shaped head like the posted picture. By what I can see, this is a Copperhead.
> 
> If you think this is a TEXAS RAT SNAKE I will wager $500 that you are wrong...
> 
> Any takers?


I will....where do I collect?


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## B2 (Jun 11, 2004)

I'll take that bet too!!


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## mud minnow n switch blade (Mar 17, 2009)

ITS A MOCOSSIN


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## CCducker (Nov 21, 2008)

BondBroker said:


> The cat eye pupil isn't a sure sign of a snake being poisonous, just a pit viper. Cobras and coral snakes have round pupils and they are venomous, boas and pythons have the slit eye and they are not venomous. I used to be in the reptile business when I was a kid in West Texas. We were lucky there, if it was harmfully poisonous, it had a rattle. The hognose actually has mild venom, but they are rear fanged like a coral snake, you would have to stick your finger in its mouth to be able to touch the fangs (or teeth that they use to chew the poison into toads). Even if they do manage to get their fangs through your skin it will only cause redness and some mild swelling that will go away in a day or two. Even though a coral snake is rear fanged, I would not recommend picking one up; they have a very strong neuro-toxic poison. Best advice, if you are not absolutely sure what it is, don't pick it up. I used to catch snakes in West Texas with my hands all the time with no worries about poison. Here in East Texas I'm not so sure of my identification abilities so I leave them alone. If it's a rattlesnake, step back, they strike with lightning quickness. Even though most rattlers have only hemotoxic poison they still cause tissue death and can kill you if you're far enough from medical attention. Just make sure you let them live, they have a very important purpose in our ecosystem.


I was really only trying to help people with OUR poisonous snakes not the ones in india.......

Coral snakes......if you don't know that rhyme well im not saying it look it up.

heh why would you touch a hognoses fangs?


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## CCducker (Nov 21, 2008)

Ill third that bet......and ill take you double or nothing that I can out identify you on all the reptiles in the state of Texas!


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## Fishin' Soldier (Dec 25, 2007)

ccdcker and the rest. Can I have put up half that 500 and take half the reward??


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## Tex4x4Fsh (Jul 21, 2006)

here's a snake that didnt like his lunch interrupted.... copperhead i think


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## Texxan1 (Dec 31, 2004)

Tex4x4fsh,

Yep, you indeed have a copperhead eating a spiny lizard in that picture



Tex4x4Fsh said:


> here's a snake that didnt like his lunch interrupted.... copperhead i think


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## Harbormaster (May 26, 2000)

Definately COPPERHEAD!










J/K Another good snake thread!


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## seattleman1969 (Jul 17, 2008)

Tex4x4Fsh said:


> here's a snake that didnt like his lunch interrupted.... copperhead i think


And a broad banded copperhead at that! another snake I have yet to see.... Nice photo too!


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