# Covid-19 Shot



## Johnny9 (Sep 7, 2005)

I will get a CV-19 shot after all our Federal Politicians take one. Who else?


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## chriserman (Aug 12, 2005)

Don't take vaccines myself nor my wife. No flu shot nor will we take the Covid-19 Vaccine. I'm going to a better place if I die but not looking forward to the dying part.


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## TXanalogkd (Oct 25, 2014)

My job offered the shot(s), but I passed until it is mandatory. Initially, I was onboard; what do I have to loose, but changed my mind. 

As far as our government officials getting the shot and saying it's safe. This is more reason for me to not get it. Just my two cents.


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## Mottled Duck (Dec 3, 2016)

Absolutely will get one.

Do you anyone with polio?

Likely you don't.

The reason is because there is a vaccine


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## texan3220 (Nov 19, 2020)

No sir not me...


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## Woodlands Water Turkey (Aug 5, 2016)

Of course Iâ€™ll get it.


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## Rockfish2 (Sep 1, 2017)

Man, yet another tinfoil hat thread. Having said that, Iâ€™m no anti-vaxxer, but I think an mRNA vaccine has too many long-term unknowns. Then again, so does COVID. Youâ€™re taking a chance either way.


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## Rockfish2 (Sep 1, 2017)

chriserman said:


> Don't take vaccines myself nor my wife. No flu shot nor will we take the Covid-19 Vaccine. I'm going to a better place if I die but not looking forward to the dying part.


So, have you gotten the smallpox, measles, mumps, rubella or polio vaccines?


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## mrsh978 (Apr 24, 2006)

Be a dull bulb not to. Yes I get the flu shot too. And check the toilet seat for pee first


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## Mottled Duck (Dec 3, 2016)

I have done some reading about the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines.

It is my understanding the vaccine does not kill the coronavirus or keep a person from contracting it. The vaccine prevents a person from becoming ill. There is something about the vaccine the prevents the virus from attaching to your cells and getting you sick. 

Way over my head.

However it has not been determined whether or not a person with the vaccine that contracts the virus can spread to it others.

So if a large number of people get the vaccine and a large number do not would that make the people without the vaccine at even more risk because there would be millions of people that longer had to be careful?

Millions of people with vaccinations could be hosts for the virus and spread it to others that don't want to get vaccinated. 

That's something out of a science fiction movie but it may be true.

If so everyone had better get vaccinated or your chances of getting COVID might rise significantly.


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## owens33 (May 2, 2007)

nope. don't get the flu vac either. i don't get sick. now if there was an allergy vac i would. don't wear a face diaper either unless i have to.


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## cloudfishing (May 8, 2005)

I have already had COVID-19. Why would I listen to Google Doctors opinions ! There are a lot of folks specializing in this medical practice on this site. If you are not a doctor or have spent 8 years as a student specializing in medical practice "****" ! Yes I will get the vaccine. One thing in my life I am not afraid of is to die, I am only afraid of my wife being a bad shot and suffering from that !


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## awesum (May 31, 2006)

I trust my doctor and will do what he recommends.


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## cubera (Mar 9, 2005)

Pass


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## DannyMac (May 22, 2004)

Brady said:


> Absolutely will get one.
> 
> Do you anyone with polio?
> 
> ...


I'm a polio survivor and yes I'll take the Covid vaccine ASAP!


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## bearwhiz (Jan 30, 2011)

I'll get the shot. I know several people who have had it and have heard the same thing from each of them. You don't want this virus. Also a niece who is RN that deals with it and tells me to get the shot.


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## BourbonNeat (May 28, 2020)

Brady said:


> I have done some reading about the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines.
> 
> It is my understanding the vaccine does not kill the coronavirus or keep a person from contracting it. The vaccine prevents a person from becoming ill. There is something about the vaccine the prevents the virus from attaching to your cells and getting you sick.
> 
> ...


May want to look at the article linked below. The Pfizer vaccine is BNT162.

Don't mean to hijack the thread, but some folks might want to know how the vaccine works before they decide to take it or not.

Here is a brief quote from the article.

"Simply put, an mRNA vaccine instructs cells to make a virus' protein so the body can make antibodies to kill the virus.

If your immune system is left on its own to fight a virus, it has to identify the virus, absorb it and build antibodies to fight it. With an mRNA vaccine, cells are given the virus information via a genetic code without actually having to be infected by the virus, and are instructed to create the virus protein. Once this protein is created, the body is triggered to create antibodies to fight the virus."

https://www.fox13memphis.com/news/t...vailable-everyone/DI3CMCUAZVCRLNZJ2HEWTDC62U/


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## c hook (Jul 6, 2016)

*never ever*

even if they make it mandatory, they can shove their hoax, i'll never take it. i wonder if Obamacare will pay for the people mandating it?? oh i forgot congress exempted themselves from Obamacare, you know the plan that is the best for thou but not thee??? line them up firing squad, i want to participate. we know all we need to know about the covid. i'm not elderly with underlying health issues. it doesn't affect 2 day old infants, need i say more. get in line sheepies and don't forget to take your wool blanket. :texasflag


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## c hook (Jul 6, 2016)

*??*



BourbonNeat said:


> May want to look at the article linked below. The Pfizer vaccine is BNT162.
> 
> Don't mean to hijack the thread, but some folks might want to know how the vaccine works before they decide to take it or not.
> 
> ...


well the body must be quick and good, 90 % of people infected have zero symptoms. and of the remaining 10% most have very mild cold like symptoms. a one day old infant never knows it exist. need i say more. wake up people. if you are old and frail, please be careful, if not no worries. :texasflag


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## bigdav160 (Aug 25, 2004)

The FDA has never approved a mRNA vaccine before. Why now?


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## Waymore (Jul 6, 2011)

Brady said:


> I have done some reading about the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines.
> 
> It is my understanding the vaccine does not kill the coronavirus or keep a person from contracting it. The vaccine prevents a person from becoming ill. There is something about the vaccine the prevents the virus from attaching to your cells and getting you sick.
> 
> ...


With the vaccine the non believers are no longer a danger to the believers, so I could care less what they do!!!


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## Stumpgrinder1 (Jul 18, 2016)

awesum said:


> I trust my doctor and will do what he recommends.


this


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## 2thDr (Jan 25, 2014)

*covid shot*

At this time, about 2.4% of people in America that test positive for covid 19 die. Yes, most of the deaths happen to people that have other health issues that will shorten their lives. Like being fat (39% of Americans are clinically obese) or diabetic or have heart disease or high blood pressure etc. I have a serious problem with about 5 million more of my friends, neighbors and relatives, even strangers dying from this virus. The native people of this land faced smallpox, also a virus (Thanks, Europeans) with no exposure to help their bodies fight it, and over half of them died. Dead. Then a vaccine was created and smallpox was eradicated. Thankfully covid is no where near as deadly as smallpox. But at this time, with no vaccine yet being distributed, our bodies do not recognize this thing and therefore cannot fight it. So, who's ready to say goodbye to one of every 50 people you know?


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## BourbonNeat (May 28, 2020)

Waymore said:


> With the vaccine the non believers are no longer a danger to the believers, so I could care less what they do!!!


LOL- not sure, but that has to be the dumbest posts you've made. Albeit there are many to choose from.


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## BourbonNeat (May 28, 2020)

c hook said:


> well the body must be quick and good, 90 % of people infected have zero symptoms. and of the remaining 10% most have very mild cold like symptoms. a one day old infant never knows it exist. need i say more. wake up people. if you are old and frail, please be careful, if not no worries. :texasflag


Jeez. I thought that only the liberals would not understand the information. My post addressed the misinformation in Brady's post.

Now here you are talking about asymptomatic people and mild symptoms and nonsense on a thread that was intended to (as I understand it) address the people that would or would not take the vaccine.


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## c hook (Jul 6, 2016)

*lmao*



BourbonNeat said:


> Jeez. I thought that only the liberals would not understand the information. My post addressed the misinformation in Brady's post.
> 
> Now here you are talking about asymptomatic people and mild symptoms and nonsense on a thread that was intended to (as I understand it) address the people that would or would not take the vaccine.


my bad, didn't read your entire post, I have a bad habit of that.

but my point is IMHO 99% of the people on the planet don't need a vaccine, or need to know covid exist. I'd compare it to a cold, but if you get a cold you will know it, most don't know they have covid, so which is worst??? :texasflag


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## rainbowrunner (Dec 31, 2005)

c hook said:


> my bad, didn't read your entire post, I have a bad habit of that.
> 
> I'd compare it to a cold, but if you get a cold you will know it, most don't know they have covid, so which is worst??? :texasflag


So you've had it? I am on day 13 (wife and 2 sons living at home have it too).

I'm 63 and wife is a few years younger, but we're both in reasonably good shape.

It Kicked our asses! Wife ran 100deg fever for 6 days. Ludacris comparing it to a cold or even a bad case of the flu.

Kids (14 and 15), not so much. They're good to go.

No, we probably will not get "the shot", at least not until we see how all this plays out for a while.

Good luck out there y'all.


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## BourbonNeat (May 28, 2020)

c hook said:


> my bad, didn't read your entire post, I have a bad habit of that.
> 
> but my point is IMHO 99% of the people on the planet don't need a vaccine, or need to know covid exist. I'd compare it to a cold, but if you get a cold you will know it, most don't know they have covid, so which is worst??? :texasflag


I agree that many people don't need the vaccine. Example -anyone that already has the Antibody.


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## BourbonNeat (May 28, 2020)

rainbowrunner said:


> So you've had it? I am on day 13 (wife and 2 sons living at home have it too).
> 
> I'm 63 and wife is a few years younger, but we're both in reasonably good shape.
> 
> ...


I don't want to get in the middle of you and CHook's discussion, but after the quarantine or however that worked - did you 4 get tested for the antibodies?

Or maybe a better way to ask is can any of you get it again next week/month/year?


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## Navi (Jun 2, 2009)

Little too early for me to jump on the vaccine myself. Iâ€™m not one of the ones worried about some RFID or any of the tinfoil hat issues. But thereâ€™s been examples of things being brought into play too soon and claiming no long term affects, when there hasnâ€™t been enough time for those to raise their head.
I know the consequences and Iâ€™m perfectly ok with however they play out. I have older family members and others that are high risk that are ready to take it, I support their decisions as their situation is different from mine.
Like everything else I believe everyone should do what they are comfortable with, if that is take the vaccine great, if it is to avoid it all cost I feel the same way, more power to them.


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## rainbowrunner (Dec 31, 2005)

BourbonNeat said:


> I don't want to get in the middle of you and CHook's discussion, but after the quarantine or however that worked - did you 4 get tested for the antibodies?
> 
> Or maybe a better way to ask is can any of you get it again next week/month/year?


Good question BN, one that we have asked but have not got a good answer for yet. My employer only requires a 14-day quarantine for return to work, same as CCISD for the boys. Wife employer requires a negative test, which we're told could take more than 60 days. Jury's still out.


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## EastTexasRancher (Jun 21, 2019)

2thDr said:


> At this time, about 2.4% of people in America that test positive for covid 19 die. ?


This is absolute unadulterated horse *****. First, that 2.4% is loosely based on CFR. (Case Fatality Rate). And those numbers are absolutely plummeting. Second, IFR (Infection Fatality Rate) today is pegged to be near 0.26%, with THAT average death at 79.

IFR by age:
0-40: .01
40-59: .12
60 and older: 1.71

If you are under 70, you have a 1 in 300,000 chance of dying.

Please put real confirmed numbers and data out there.

We have to stop scaring people. Get the facts out, and let people decide how to live.


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## EastTexasRancher (Jun 21, 2019)

My number should have read 1 in 3,000....iPad fingers....


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## 2thDr (Jan 25, 2014)

*covid*

ETR, I stand corrected. My numbers are from last month. Percentages are getting better about how many die, mainly because so many younger, healthier people are becoming infected. As of today, CDC reports 14,642,527 people in America have tested positive and 280,135 have died. That figures to an improved 1.94%. Still about 1 out of 50, though.


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## EastTexasRancher (Jun 21, 2019)

Peace


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## c hook (Jul 6, 2016)

*??*



2thDr said:


> ETR, I stand corrected. My numbers are from last month. Percentages are getting better about how many die, mainly because so many younger, healthier people are becoming infected. As of today, CDC reports 14,642,527 people in America have tested positive and 280,135 have died. That figures to an improved 1.94%. Still about 1 out of 50, though.


when that 280K number was 210K, the CDC revised it to about 10K dies from covid, and 210k died with covid, big difference. so 280K is not a legitimate number. IMHO i'm thinking 15 or 20K max. none of us really know because we all been lied to. :texasflag


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## poppadawg (Aug 10, 2007)

Good chance you will need proof of vaccination to participate in large segments of society. Iâ€™ll definitely get one ASAP. 


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## Davidsel47 (Apr 10, 2019)

poppadawg said:


> Good chance you will need proof of vaccination to participate in large segments of society. Iâ€™ll definitely get one ASAP.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I need to have a negative test every 7 days to enter the jobsite for one of the companies we are doing contract work for.


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## oc48 (Aug 13, 2005)

if you've never had covid, but sit here at say it's just like the flu, please know you don't know what the hell you are talking about and you should keep your mouth shut. I've had it. It was one of the worst things I've gone through...and I never had to go to the hospital.


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## Chuck (May 21, 2004)

*Covid Shot*

If you happen to get drawn for first in line, I will gladly take your place!!


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## Leo (May 21, 2004)

Iâ€™ll take as soon as itâ€™s available to me. It seems that many folks that refuse masks will also refuse the vaccine thinking it wonâ€™t make them that sick. Just remember that the other part is that until we get a handle on it, small businesses will remain closed, people will not get back to work and life will never be the same because it will keep spreading. Itâ€™s sad that this whole thing has been so politically driven. Donâ€™t forget you are a spreader before you have symptoms so if you are ok with that we donâ€™t have much hope. Just my opinion


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## dk2429 (Mar 27, 2015)

No one is injecting **** into me. They can shove it

If all the politicans take it, then maybe.


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## glennkoks (Jun 24, 2009)

I am a little skeptical about a vaccine rushed through to stop a worldwide pandemic in record time.

But after I let a few million other people take it first to prove it is safe I will probably jump on the bandwagon.


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## Category6 (Nov 21, 2007)

Yeah I'd get it, politics aside. Death doesn't scare me but being half-dead on a ventilator does. It's real, the statistics are overblown but the reality will slap you in the face like a mullet jumping when you're running wide open across a sand bar at night from what I hear. No thanks!


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## glennkoks (Jun 24, 2009)

A new study shows the IFR among the entire population is about 1.15%. It's below .01% for those under 40 and doubles with age about every 8 years. Reaching as high as about 5% with those above the age of 80.

So the way I look at it wearing a mask helps protect the elderly the most.

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/202...-fatality-ratio-is-about-one-point-15-percent


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## H2 (Jan 11, 2005)

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/08/pfizer-moderna-covid-vaccine-side-effects-trials.html


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## SeaOx 230C (Aug 12, 2005)

I don't think I will take it right off. I'll wait a bit.

We've been told all your life it takes.years of research, testing and trial runs to get a safe new drug.

Now all the sudden we can do it in months?


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## Johnny9 (Sep 7, 2005)

*Nope not for me*




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10223958741418609


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## charlie23 (Jan 11, 2005)

simple, you dont take it, you live with the consequence. Dont blame anyone else.


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## dk2429 (Mar 27, 2015)

charlie23 said:


> simple, you dont take it, you live with the consequence. Dont blame anyone else.


What consequence would I be living with?


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## poppadawg (Aug 10, 2007)

Well hereâ€™s what the Russians have to deal with. It sounds horrifying.

https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL8N2IP3JP

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## poppadawg (Aug 10, 2007)

I figure by the time itâ€™s my turn, 10s of millions will have been vaccinated. If it hasnâ€™t caused well known issues by then, itâ€™s probably safe. 


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## ReedA1691 (Jan 29, 2018)

I'll take it. It's already passed safety & efficacy trials for most age groups. I take an annual flu vaccine already and I don't know one person in all my years to die of the flu, so I ain't messing around with this virus - I now count three people dead from this, one not old or sick and, quite frankly, a lot healthier than I. 

As to reopening of things like large gatherings and bars, that doesn't really affect me - I can take or leave those places - but I know a lot of people out of work for varying periods of time, from the airline industry to bartenders and people who play live music. Sooner we can stop the spread, sooner they can get back to a normal income (and then spend the next 4-5 years paying off the debt they've incurred).


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## c hook (Jul 6, 2016)

*right*



charlie23 said:


> simple, you dont take it, you live with the consequence. Dont blame anyone else.


exactly right on the money, i couldn't agree with you more. for those who wish to take it, it's available for yall, go down and get it. for those of us who choose not to, that's our business. so now if everyone would leave it at that, we could all get on with our business. :texasflag


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## capt. david (Dec 29, 2004)

Polio is a virus. Without a vaccine it would have destroyed this country. Trump thumps his chest on getting this vaccine developed in record time, then those that think he is the greatest are opposed to getting vaccinated? SMDH!


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## c hook (Jul 6, 2016)

*??*

just because we aren't for crooks lies and cheats, and like what trump has done, doesn't mean we can' think for ourselves. i realize the dems are sheep lined up running off the cliff, but conservatives are independent thinkers. we don't follow ever move others make, this is the biggest difference between conservative and dems. dems blindly run off the cliff, we don't. and don't even begin to compare polio to covid. that's like comparing the moon to the sun, like comparing a mack truck to a hot wheel toy. :texasflag


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## SSST (Jun 9, 2011)

I'm pretty sure i won't have a choice, get it, or find a new job. And yes, our owner is a big Trump supporter, but he also has common sense when it comes to Covid.


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## copano_son (Dec 17, 2007)

If the 70% mark (or close to it) isn't hit within a certain time frame my guess is the government will try to enforce some sort of mandate. Hopefully I'm wrong, or hopefully there will be enough volunteers to meet the benchmark. We think the mask debacle is crazy, wait until the government tries to make adults get the vaccine!


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## SeaOx 230C (Aug 12, 2005)

copano_son said:


> If the 70% mark (or close to it) isn't hit within a certain time frame my guess is the government will try to enforce some sort of mandate. Hopefully I'm wrong, or hopefully there will be enough volunteers to meet the benchmark. We think the mask debacle is crazy, wait until the government tries to make adults get the vaccine!


Hmm..more and more I am seeing people talk like this and most seem ok with it.

I see posts and hear people say things like this.

Another member also posted about not being able to do business or participate in certain activities unless the prove they took the vaccine.

You do realize your are talking about forcing people to take this?

What would that look like? What would the consequences of not taking it be?

No flying? Or no going out public at all? What would be considered out in public? Is that the store or the park? Is that the Doctor's office?

All this starting to sound familiar. Seems like I remember reading about something similar.


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## photofishin (Aug 7, 2009)

SeaOx 230C said:


> Hmm..more and more I am seeing people talk like this and most seem ok with it.
> 
> I see posts and hear people say things like this.
> 
> ...


I'm as conservative as they come...but how can any conservative complain about rights being taken away because of lockdowns and then refuse to take a vaccine that went through the same safety protocols as every other vaccine?
The best comment I've seen so far: "you've taken xanex, morphine, drank rotgut whiskey and snorted coke off a stripper's rear and you're worried about a vaccine!"


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## copano_son (Dec 17, 2007)

SeaOx 230C said:


> Hmm..more and more I am seeing people talk like this and most seem ok with it.
> 
> I see posts and hear people say things like this.
> 
> ...


The government "asked" us to wear mask, and a large portion of the public pushed back, so they mandated them. The government is going to ask we get the vaccine. To be continued...


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## SeaOx 230C (Aug 12, 2005)

copano_son said:


> The government "asked" us to wear mask, and a large portion of the public pushed back, so they mandated them. The government is going to ask we get the vaccine. To be continued...


Seems you do not wish to answer.

I didn't ask if the Government was going to or not.

I posted asking what folks think a mandate like that would look like. what would the consequences of refusal be.


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## poppadawg (Aug 10, 2007)

photofishin said:


> : "you've taken xanex, morphine, drank rotgut whiskey and snorted coke off a stripper's rear and you're worried about a vaccine!"


That pretty much destroys any argument I could come up with against getting vaccinated. Get the Vac, open this sucker up. Bars, restaurants, travel? Wooo Hoo!! I dont see government mandate, but definitely business mandates. Why wouldn't a business try and mitigate the risk by requiring their employees to get vaccinated?


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## SeaOx 230C (Aug 12, 2005)

photofishin said:


> I'm as conservative as they come...but how can any conservative complain about rights being taken away because of lockdowns and then refuse to take a vaccine that went through the same safety protocols as every other vaccine?
> The best comment I've seen so far: "you've taken xanex, morphine, drank rotgut whiskey and snorted coke off a stripper's rear and you're worried about a vaccine!"


Again my question was not should a person take it or not. Or is it safe or not.

My question is what about a mandate from the Government to take a vaccine look like. What would the consequences of refusal be?

Guess no one wants to think that far ahead.

Oh by the way...I have no idea why you posted what you did.....

There are some folks that don't do the things you posted.


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## texcajun (Feb 22, 2009)

These vaccines have been tested the same way every other vaccine gets tested, up to the stage where they verify long term effects. Which when it comes to vaccines are generally non existent. 

The difference is there was a ton of money and incentive to rush this process. Plenty of money to make, plenty of people to test on and the government promised to buy a ton of them before they had finished making them. 

A typical vaccine trial would have minimal money, minimal test subjects and a risk of not making any money on them even if they were successful.

The technology for them has been around. Itâ€™s not like they invented RNA vaccines this year. They just had money and people to make it feasible.

Even though I am currently recovering from the virus, I'd be the first person in line for a vaccine if they'll let me take it.


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## photofishin (Aug 7, 2009)

SeaOx 230C said:


> Again my question was not should a person take it or not. Or is it safe or not.
> 
> My question is what about a mandate from the Government to take a vaccine look like. What would the consequences of refusal be?
> 
> ...


noted but you already are mandated to have your kids vaccinated in order for them to attend public school. What I don't get is this tin foil hat nonsense that people are openly saying they'll refuse to take the shot while simultaneously complaining about forced shutdowns. If most of the population gets vaccinated, this pandemic will end. That will result in the economy opening up fully, we can stop wearing these stupid masks, we can hug or friends and relatives again and get back to some sense of normalcy.
I don't want the government to control every aspect of my life, but I'm smart enough to know that this vaccine went through the same stringent testing as other vaccines.


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## copano_son (Dec 17, 2007)

SeaOx 230C said:


> Seems you do not wish to answer.
> 
> I didn't ask if the Government was going to or not.
> 
> I posted asking what folks think a mandate like that would look like. what would the consequences of refusal be.


Because I don't know the answer, or that it will even come to a mandate.

If it came down to it, my guess is kids will be required to get it to attend school. Maybe you'll be fined if you don't get it, or insurance won't cover you, but who knows. Very complicated question!

As photo mentioned, the answer to this nightmare is doing what the government is asking. I fully understand the privacy and personal choice issues, but it feels like we're in a [email protected] if we do, [email protected] if we don't situation. Refuse the vaccine and continue with mask and shutdowns, or do our part to help get this country back to "normal."


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## SeaOx 230C (Aug 12, 2005)

Vaccines are not required for children to attend school. People think that but it's not true, many people opt out. I know people who have not.

And again folks I'm not arguing of it's safe or not. I am not an anti-vaccine guy. I take the flu shot, my kids got all the regular vaccines.

None of that means I think the Government should be able to force people to take it. If a private business wants to do that for their establishment fine. 

It bothers me that so many are willing to require this.

I am curious to know what those that are for it being required think the consequences of refusal should be.


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

SeaOx 230C said:


> Vaccines are not required for children to attend school. People think that but it's not true, many people opt out. I know people who have not.
> 
> And again folks I'm not arguing of it's safe or not. I am not an anti-vaccine guy. I take the flu shot, my kids got all the regular vaccines.
> 
> ...


Your school district may not have required vaccines for the kids, but the school district where my grandkids went to school required vaccines.


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## boom! (Jul 10, 2004)

Vaccines are the least of your worries if your kids are in public schools.


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## photofishin (Aug 7, 2009)

SeaOx 230C said:


> I am curious to know what those that are for it being required think the consequences of refusal should be.


you should be forced to stay in lockdown/quarantine while the rest of us enjoy the opening up of our country. It's ridiculous to me that we're even having this conversation after the billions of dollars lost due to a shutdown. The selfishness/nonsensical fears associated with getting a safe vaccine is abhorrent.


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## Bozo (Jun 16, 2004)

Why should it even be considered to be a forced vaccine? The flu shot isn't forced. If you are scared of the virus, then protect yourself. If the vaccine is really what they proclaim, then it wouldn't matter if you were in the midst of a person carrying the virus or not, you wont get it, and in the small chance you do, it'll keep you from even knowing you had it since it keeps you from experiencing the symptoms. 

If you don't want it, then you take your lumps if you get it. Nobodies business but the person making the decision for their body.

But once it is widely available, and the period of getting the second dose and it becoming fully protectant, then masks should be optional and no shutdown orders should be in place. At that point a solution is in place and it is up to the individual as to whether they want to be protected or not but it should not have any effect on whether we can go about our lives. Unless we are being lied to about the effectiveness or true purpose of this vaccine. If they absolutely require you to get it, then they are lying to us no doubt.


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## glennkoks (Jun 24, 2009)

I will probably wait to take it until I feel it's been tested on a much bigger scale than it has been so far.

But here is an interesting point. The state of Texas has required many vaccinations to be eligible for school enrollment. 

If the schools require it do you stand your ground and home school or take the kids for the shot? Personally I do not fear the shots nor do I think the risks of Covid are that high for me or my family. But forced in a corner between home school or getting the vaccine I would probably opt for taking it.


----------



## glennkoks (Jun 24, 2009)

Bozo said:


> Why should it even be considered to be a forced vaccine? The flu shot isn't forced. If you are scared of the virus, then protect yourself. If the vaccine is really what they proclaim, then it wouldn't matter if you were in the midst of a person carrying the virus or not, you wont get it, and in the small chance you do, it'll keep you from even knowing you had it since it keeps you from experiencing the symptoms.
> 
> If you don't want it, then you take your lumps if you get it. Nobodies business but the person making the decision for their body.
> 
> But once it is widely available, and the period of getting the second dose and it becoming fully protectant, then masks should be optional and no shutdown orders should be in place. At that point a solution is in place and it is up to the individual as to whether they want to be protected or not but it should not have any effect on whether we can go about our lives. Unless we are being lied to about the effectiveness or true purpose of this vaccine. If they absolutely require you to get it, then they are lying to us no doubt.


"Why should it even be considered to be a forced vaccine?"

Good question. I think the damage we have done to our economy, the elderly death rate, the ramifications of this nasty bug continuing to disrupt our lives sets the bar higher than just about all the other virus's with the exception of maybe polio.

In a free country it is hard for me to digest "forcing" a vaccination on anyone. But we also live communally together, attend the same schools, churches etc. and in the case of schools have forced immunizations on our children for decades.

In 1905 the Supreme Court ruled that fining people for refusing to take the small pox vaccination was not a violation of the Constitution.

https://constitutioncenter.org/blog...eme-court-rules-on-vaccines-and-public-health


----------



## Bozo (Jun 16, 2004)

but if the vaccine works, then why would you be worried about anyone else having it? Your protected from it right? If you are protected, then what does it matter if a covid carrier is sitting next to you in the movie theater or school or church or on a plane? It would be no different than sitting next to a cancer patient. Just because they are sick doesn't effect you. You are as immune from catching covid as you are from cancer jumping out of their lungs and on to you. It just is impossible for it to happen. That is if the vaccine is what they say it is.


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## copano_son (Dec 17, 2007)

WillieT said:


> Your school district may not have required vaccines for the kids, but the school district where my grandkids went to school required vaccines.


Yeah, you can't just opt out of kid getting vaccines.

Texas law allows (a) physicians to write medical exemption statements which clearly state a medical reason exists and the person cannot receive specific vaccines, and (b) parents/guardians to choose an exemption from immunization requirements for reasons of conscience, including a religious belief. The law does not allow parents/guardians to elect an exemption simply because of inconvenience (for example, a record is lost or incomplete and it is too much trouble to go to a physician or clinic to correct the problem).

Bozo - Enough of the population needs to get vaccinated for it to work properly. 70% is the target number, otherwise covid continues to keep things shut down. Say the experts anyway.


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## photofishin (Aug 7, 2009)

Bozo said:


> but if the vaccine works, then why would you be worried about anyone else having it? Your protected from it right? If you are protected, then what does it matter if a covid carrier is sitting next to you in the movie theater or school or church or on a plane? It would be no different than sitting next to a cancer patient. Just because they are sick doesn't effect you. You are as immune from catching covid as you are from cancer jumping out of their lungs and on to you. It just is impossible for it to happen. That is if the vaccine is what they say it is.


you're protected for about 3-4 months. If we all took it, then it would nearly eradicate the virus. If you don't take it...then feel free to lock yourself in the house. Not sure what the big deal is. Nobody is taking your rights away by asking you not to be the next Typhoid Mary


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## SeaOx 230C (Aug 12, 2005)

copano_son said:


> Yeah, you can't just opt out of kid getting vaccines.
> 
> Texas law allows (a) physicians to write medical exemption statements which clearly state a medical reason exists and the person cannot receive specific vaccines, and (b) *parents/guardians to choose an exemption from immunization requirements for reasons of conscience, including a religious belief.* The law does not allow parents/guardians to elect an exemption simply because of inconvenience (for example, a record is lost or incomplete and it is too much trouble to go to a physician or clinic to correct the problem).
> 
> Bozo - Enough of the population needs to get vaccinated for it to work properly. 70% is the target number, otherwise covid continues to keep things shut down. Say the experts anyway.


 Umm did you read what you posted?

That clearly says parents can opt out if they choose to. Lots of kids in public school these days are not vaccinated. The anti-vax crowd is out there.

Like I said I am not anti vaccine.

If you are vaccinated how does my not being vaccinated concern you? You wont catch it from me right?

Covid is not shutting any thing down, its a virus it cant do things like that. Peoples fears and the influence gained by playing into those fears is what has things shut down.


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## SeaOx 230C (Aug 12, 2005)

photofishin said:


> you should be forced to stay in lockdown/quarantine while the rest of us enjoy the opening up of our country. It's ridiculous to me that we're even having this conversation after the billions of dollars lost due to a shutdown. The selfishness/nonsensical fears associated with getting a safe vaccine is abhorrent.


Are you not capable of having a conversation with out the passive aggressive language? I see people doing that when they don't really have valid response.

Lets leave all that out Ok? I don't insult or threaten you with bad things how about you return the courtesy.


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## SeaOx 230C (Aug 12, 2005)

WillieT said:


> Your school district may not have required vaccines for the kids, but the school district where my grandkids went to school required vaccines.


Please read post #76 copano_son was kind enough to look it up for us .

A parent can opt out in any school district. I guarantee you there are lots of kids in the district your grandkids attend that are not vaccinated.


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## photofishin (Aug 7, 2009)

SeaOx 230C said:


> Are you not capable of having a conversation with out the passive aggressive language?


Are you not capable of common sense? 300,000 dead, an economy that is in lockdown and you seem worried that it's a nanny state forcing you to take a vaccine that will stop all of that. What's YOUR solution?


----------



## SeaOx 230C (Aug 12, 2005)

Santana said:


> I will probably wait to take it until I feel it's been tested on a much bigger scale than it has been so far.
> 
> But here is an interesting point. The state of Texas has required many vaccinations to be eligible for school enrollment.
> 
> If the schools require it do you stand your ground and home school or take the kids for the shot? Personally I do not fear the shots nor do I think the risks of Covid are that high for me or my family. But forced in a corner between home school or getting the vaccine I would probably opt for taking it.


Schools do not "require" it. It is a list of recommended vaccines. Parents can opt out see post 76.

So many people give the Government powers they don't even have.

I agree with you about waiting. I have been offered to sign up for it by my employer. I am not comfortable taking something that in any other circumstance would be still experimental.


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## photofishin (Aug 7, 2009)

SeaOx 230C said:


> Schools do not "require" it. It is a list of recommended vaccines. Parents can opt out see post 76.
> I am not comfortable taking something that in any other circumstance would be still experimental.


Experimental? These vaccines followed the same stringent safety guidelines as previous vaccines and were tested on many thousands of people. The Trump Administration removed all the red tape and paid to get it done. If you're not comfortable, can you say why? Can you base it on a scientific reason versus anti vaccine fear?


----------



## photofishin (Aug 7, 2009)

SeaOx 230C said:


> Schools do not "require" it. It is a list of recommended vaccines. Parents can opt out see post 76.
> 
> So many people give the Government powers they don't even have.
> 
> I agree with you about waiting. I have been offered to sign up for it by my employer. I am not comfortable taking something that in any other circumstance would be still experimental.


https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/imz-managers/laws/state-reqs.html


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## SeaOx 230C (Aug 12, 2005)

photofishin said:


> Are you not capable of common sense? 300,000 dead, an economy that is in lockdown and you seem worried that it's a nanny state forcing you to take a vaccine that will stop all of that. What's YOUR solution?


I have no "solution" anymore than you or anybody else does. We can only make the choices we feel is right for us and our family and then live with what comes.

If you and your family take the vaccine what do you care if I don't? You and all those that want to take it first go round go ahead do so. If I don't I get sick right? Not you right?

My solution at this point is to continue living life. With the disjointed, agenda driven, fear riddled info out there not much else you can do really.

I will and have been going where I want to. Been on vacation out of state twice. Been fishing. to the beach, to several farmers markets and so on...â€¦..

I will not live my life in state of fear.

I will continue to attend Church Services at my Church live and in person. We have agreed we will not be shutdown again. The local law will have to just arrest us if they feel the need.

I will continue to go to the store.

I will support my local restaurant with in person dinning.

I will not separate from my family members and friends.

We had Thanksgiving as normal.

We will have Christmas as normal.

Me and my Family will keep on living until the Lord calls us home. We will try and bring as many as are willing with us. What else can we do?


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## SeaOx 230C (Aug 12, 2005)

photofishin said:


> Experimental? These vaccines followed the same stringent safety guidelines as previous vaccines and were tested on many thousands of people. The Trump Administration removed all the red tape and paid to get it done. *If you're not comfortable, can you say why?* Can you base it on a scientific reason versus anti vaccine fear?


Good question!!!!

I am not comfortable with something like this being rushed to market. Perhaps I don't understand the difference now and before when it comes to developing vaccines.

We have always been led to believe these things take years of research and testing and trials. Now all the sudden in a matter of months we can make a vaccine for a virus no one heard of before late last year?

The corona virus family includes the cold virus I think. How come we cant come up with vaccine for that but we did with its cousin covid?


----------



## photofishin (Aug 7, 2009)

SeaOx 230C said:


> I have no "solution" anymore than you or anybody else does.


That's the thing...the vaccine IS the solution. It's 95% effective. You going out and about infecting as many people as you'd like is NOT freedom...it's the definition of self centered fear.
I'm as conservative as they come but refusing to take a vaccine that is safe and highly effective is not only selfish but idiotic at best.


----------



## photofishin (Aug 7, 2009)

SeaOx 230C said:


> Good question!!!!
> 
> I am not comfortable with something like this being rushed to market. Perhaps I don't understand the difference now and before when it comes to developing vaccines.
> 
> ...


I've explained it...maybe you can do the research yourself before spouting off nonsense you obviously aren't educated on. Look up Operation Warp Speed and see the details.


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## SeaOx 230C (Aug 12, 2005)

photofishin said:


> That's the thing...the vaccine IS the solution. It's 95% effective. You going out and about infecting as many people as you'd like is NOT freedom...it's the definition of self centered fear.
> I'm as conservative as they come but refusing to take a vaccine that is safe and highly effective is not only selfish but idiotic at best.


OK again IF you take the vaccine your protected right? If I don't I am not protected right?

If you are protected then I cant infect you right?

So why does it matter to you if I take it or not?

Why even the thought of forcing people to take it?

So let who wants to take it right off do so. Let those that want to wait until they feel it has been demonstrated to be safe wait. And let the actual anti-vaxers do what they want to do.


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## SeaOx 230C (Aug 12, 2005)

photofishin said:


> I've explained it...maybe you can do the research yourself before spouting off nonsense you obviously aren't educated on. Look up Operation Warp Speed and see the details.


I' am aware of the effort and the silly name it was given.

Your "explanation" was that the red tape was eliminated. So the reason we don't have all these vaccines for other things is red tape? Not saying that don't slow these things down but come on man.

So are able to quickly come up with vaccines but cant because of the red tape?

Or is this a rushed job that may or may not be safe long term?

I don't know and I don't think you do either. You have your decision to make I have mine.


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## Imtheman (Sep 28, 2018)

photofishin said:


> Are you not capable of common sense? 300,000 dead, an economy that is in lockdown and you seem worried that it's a nanny state forcing you to take a vaccine that will stop all of that. What's YOUR solution?


You realize freedom & liberty are both extremely dangerous, right?

You also realize all the numbers are made up, and the points don't count, right?


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## batmaninja (Jul 15, 2010)

photofishin said:


> That's the thing...the vaccine IS the solution. It's 95% effective.


My understanding is that the current "flu shot" is about 60% effective. And it has been around for years with Waymore trials and testing. And you still have to get the flu shot, yearly.

Any guess how they got to a Covid vac so soon, and so effective?

Did you read the part that the drug makers get indemnity too, any guesses why?


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## Imtheman (Sep 28, 2018)

Sometimes memes can put thing very succinctly


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

Imtheman said:


> You realize freedom & liberty are both extremely dangerous, right?
> 
> You also realize all the numbers are made up, and the points don't count, right?


There is an article in the August 20, 2020 USA TODAY called fact check, that checks the exact meme you posted. You might want to fact check before you post these things. While some of the numbers are correct, most are not. You got to remember too, much has changed concerning Covid since August 20. You might want to check it out. It does not support what you say.


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

batmaninja said:


> My understanding is that the current "flu shot" is about 60% effective. And it has been around for years with Waymore trials and testing. And you still have to get the flu shot, yearly.
> 
> Any guess how they got to a Covid vac so soon, and so effective?
> 
> Did you read the part that the drug makers get indemnity too, any guesses why?


Youâ€™re not comparing apples to apples. Two complete different viruses and the vaccines for COVID is made in a totally different way.


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

Memes are funny, but donâ€™t represent anything resembling the subject.


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## Imtheman (Sep 28, 2018)

WillieT said:


> There is an article in the August 20, 2020 USA TODAY called fact check, that checks the exact meme you posted. You might want to fact check before you post these things. While some of the numbers are correct, most are not. You got to remember too, much has changed concerning Covid since August 20. You might want to check it out. It does not support what you say.


Nobody can fact check those numbers, because there are no legitimate numbers. All the numbers have been manipulated, miscategorised, misrepresented, politicized, and are trash.

The numbers meme, was really just meant to be cheeky.

The point is FREEDOM AND LIBERTY ARE DANGEROUS.

You donâ€™t need freedom and liberty to make good decisions. Freedom and liberty are about the freedom to make poor choices and bad decisions.

If you canâ€™t accept that nobody can help you.


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

Imtheman said:


> Nobody can fact check those numbers, because there are no legitimate numbers. All the numbers have been manipulated, miscategorised, misrepresented, politicized, and are trash.
> 
> The numbers meme, was really just meant to be cheeky.
> 
> ...


Sorry, Iâ€™ve lost several friends from this disease and it bothers me when people post inaccurate information or think this is a hoax or conspiracy or politically motivated. If you think these things then I donâ€™t think anyone can help you. Itâ€™s real and itâ€™s dangerous.


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## Imtheman (Sep 28, 2018)

WillieT said:


> Memes are funny, but donâ€™t represent anything resembling the subject.


I think the forefathers meant for our freedoms and liberties to exist despite the virus.

I also think we are being conditioned to look at our freedoms are selfish.

Lastly, if you donâ€™t think that politicians and bureaucrats have used this tragedy to take our rights, then you havenâ€™t been paying attention.

I would say those are both spot on and completely â€œresemble the subjectâ€


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

Imtheman said:


> I think the forefathers meant for our freedoms and liberties to exist despite the virus.
> 
> I also think we are being conditioned to look at our freedoms are selfish.
> 
> ...


We disagree and I have a feeling Iâ€™ve been paying attention to things a lot longer than youâ€™ve been alive. I also deal in reality, not memes.


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## Imtheman (Sep 28, 2018)

WillieT said:


> Sorry, Iâ€™ve lost several friends from this disease and it bothers me when people post inaccurate information or think this is a hoax or conspiracy or politically motivated. If you think these things then I donâ€™t think anyone can help you. Itâ€™s real and itâ€™s dangerous.


Nobody is saying itâ€™s a hoax. I think everybody agrees itâ€™s real. 
but what weâ€™ve been presented with Isnâ€™t science either. You can find no science showing how effective a mask is. You canâ€™t find science showing how effective quarantines have been. 
You can find some anecdotal evidence, you can find a lot of people who say â€œwell itâ€™s a small thing with not much downsideâ€ but they sure canâ€™t tell you what the upside is.

I donâ€™t mean to take away from anybody who youâ€™ve lost, But Iâ€™ve lost family and battles and wars since this country has been founded so people would have the right to make choices. Because some people have lost Loved ones over the past 10 months, itâ€™s no reason to abandon the lives and blood that have been shed over the last 250 years


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## poppadawg (Aug 10, 2007)

Imtheman said:


> Nobody can fact check those numbers, because there are no legitimate numbers. All the numbers have been manipulated, miscategorised, misrepresented, politicized, and are.


Didnt you just post numbers? Post 91. I really donâ€™t care. Money will eventually force this beautiful capitalistic society to get herd immunity. No way there will be a wide spread accepted risk of covid shutting down of productive assets when there is a vaccine available.


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## batmaninja (Jul 15, 2010)

WillieT said:


> Youâ€™re not comparing apples to apples. Two complete different viruses and the vaccines for COVID is made in a totally different way.


Granny Smith versus Red Delicious

Please tell me more about the differences in the vaccines and virusâ€™s extra points for specifics.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

batmaninja said:


> Granny Smith versus Red Delicious
> 
> Please tell me more about the differences in the vaccines and virusâ€™s extra points for specifics.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Google is your friend.


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## copano_son (Dec 17, 2007)

SeaOx 230C said:


> Santana said:
> 
> 
> > I will probably wait to take it until I feel it's been tested on a much bigger scale than it has been so far.
> ...


Kids getting vaccines is a law in Texas, so it is "required." A note from mommy doesn't cut it. Affidavits have to be submitted and reviewed for exceptions.

Otherwise, Texas law requires that children at all public and private schools have 10 immunizations for diseases such as tetanus, polio and whooping cough. Children must receive the vaccines before enrolling in kindergarten and are required to receive others, such as the meningococcal vaccine.


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## glennkoks (Jun 24, 2009)

Bozo said:


> but if the vaccine works, then why would you be worried about anyone else having it? Your protected from it right? If you are protected, then what does it matter if a covid carrier is sitting next to you in the movie theater or school or church or on a plane? It would be no different than sitting next to a cancer patient. Just because they are sick doesn't effect you. You are as immune from catching covid as you are from cancer jumping out of their lungs and on to you. It just is impossible for it to happen. That is if the vaccine is what they say it is.


No. No vaccine is 100% not even polio or small pox.

And I am curious. If anyones vaccinated child came down with Polio contracted from a classmate who's parents were "anti vaxxers" what would you do?

Because I know exactly what I would do if my child had to endure Polio due to the negligence of an "anti vaxxer".

It comes from the "The code of Hammurabi"


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## Plumbwader (Jan 17, 2009)

As the husband of a woman with 15 years in the clinical research area, I will not be taking the shot for quite some time. You guys are crazy if you do. This virus has over a 99% survival rate. No one knows the long lasting affects of this 'vaccine". Godspeed to you all.


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## Bozo (Jun 16, 2004)

WillieT said:


> Sorry, Iâ€™ve lost several friends from this disease and it bothers me when people post inaccurate information or think this is a hoax or conspiracy or politically motivated. If you think these things then I donâ€™t think anyone can help you. Itâ€™s real and itâ€™s dangerous.


Wow. That is unfortunate. I don't know a single person that has contracted the virus, let alone any one hospitalized or dead.

Weird how it seems to run in certain groups and is non existent in others.


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## glennkoks (Jun 24, 2009)

Bozo, Imtheman et al.

I am curious. How many of you have been vaccinated for Polio, Rubella, Tetanus, Small Pox etc? Have your kids?

Is it all vaccines you are critical of or just this one?

Personally I think it is a fine line between being "cautiously skeptical" of a new vaccine and a hypocritical moron who has long reaped the benefits of vaccines on one hand and criticizing them on the other.


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## c hook (Jul 6, 2016)

*??*



Santana said:


> Bozo, Imtheman et al.
> 
> I am curious. How many of you have been vaccinated for Polio, Rubella, Tetanus, Small Pox etc? Have your kids?
> 
> ...


with 90% of those infected asymptomatic, and there is a near zero chance of dying unless you are elderly with underlying health issues, I doubt you could compare the covid to the aforementioned. This is based solely on the numbers, numbers don't lie. :texasflag


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## Imtheman (Sep 28, 2018)

c hook said:


> with 90% of those infected asymptomatic, and there is a near zero chance of dying unless you are elderly with underlying health issues, I doubt you could compare the covid to the aforementioned. This is based solely on the numbers, numbers don't lie. :texasflag


This

Coupled with the fact that I feel this was really rushed through testing, and the government gave the drug makers shielding from liability I personally donâ€™t want any part of it.

Add to that the fact that I feel like Iâ€™ve been lied to about this dang virus from the very start, ....

[Richard Pryor voice on\] â€˜Uh-uh. Noooo. Not the kid! Uh-uh. Nah


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## Skywagon (Jun 29, 2018)

Today my wife as a pulmonologist for 38 years signed TOD today for her 150 covid patient. She received her vaccine today and with any luck I might be able to hug her in the next couple of weeks. Based on my age i am probably a February vaccine candidate. She is completely mentally and physically exhausted as well as her team and vowed to retire when covid is under control sometime in 2021.


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## SeaOx 230C (Aug 12, 2005)

copano_son said:


> Kids getting vaccines is a law in Texas, so it is "required." A note from mommy doesn't cut it. Affidavits have to be submitted and reviewed for exceptions.
> 
> Otherwise, Texas law requires that children at all public and private schools have 10 immunizations for diseases such as tetanus, polio and whooping cough. Children must receive the vaccines before enrolling in kindergarten and are required to receive others, such as the meningococcal vaccine.


You are correct file.The needed documents declaring your religious or good conscience reasons and your child will not get vaccinated. I have known those that have done this It was not hard at all.

I didn't spell out the details on how to do it didn't feel the need. I never said you just don't take the kid to get shots. Some assumed that's what I meant.

All I said was that parents can opt out of they choose too. You have twice know posted information confirming that You can indeed opt out of childhood vaccination.

I don't agree with them but I have had this.discussion with several anti-vaxers. One that truly believes his oldest son has autism because of vaccines.

Again fill out the and file the required documentation and you can opt your child out of vaccines. It is done more than you realize.

However that is not fear the topic at hand is it. You are just using that to try and say "see we already force people to accept a vaccine why not This one".

I don't we ended to force people. I feel that it is wrong to force people to take this.

You seem to think it's ok to force people.

So I ask again what does.That look like to you?

If I don't take it can I not continue to live my life? Can I not to go the store, the market, beach fishing, park......

Can I not buy, sell, and trade?

People are saying make it required by law. Well there's more to it than just that.

If you require it by law there must be consequences of disobedience.

Lots want to throw the law on it but don't want to really consider all that goes with that. I tend to think thing thru.

I go straight to it No emotional stuff....

What consequences do you see as reasonable for disobeying a law requiring a covid vaccination?


----------



## photofishin (Aug 7, 2009)

Imtheman said:


> You realize freedom & liberty are both extremely dangerous, right?
> 
> You also realize all the numbers are made up, and the points don't count, right?


I realize that you spouting nonsense on social media doesn't stop many states from locking down, eliminating your freedoms. The court system is a great way to fight this but the vaccine is a MUCH faster way to get back to normalcy. NOT taking a proven safe vaccine due to nonsensical fear and misinformation is just stupid at best, REGARDLESS of the numbers you make up.


----------



## photofishin (Aug 7, 2009)

Imtheman said:


> Nobody can fact check those numbers, because there are no legitimate numbers. All the numbers have been manipulated, miscategorised, misrepresented, politicized, and are trash.
> 
> The numbers meme, was really just meant to be cheeky.
> 
> ...


 and you have the freedom to stay home locked in your house minus welfare and income due to poor decisions


----------



## photofishin (Aug 7, 2009)

SeaOx 230C said:


> You are correct file.The needed documents declaring your religious or good conscience reasons and your child will not get vaccinated. I have known those that have done this It was not hard at all.
> 
> I didn't spell out the details on how to do it didn't feel the need. I never said you just don't take the kid to get shots. Some assumed that's what I meant.
> 
> ...


hilarious that you're arguing against "anti vaxxers" while simultaneously advocating that you won't take this vaccine. Pot meet kettle.


----------



## photofishin (Aug 7, 2009)

Imtheman said:


> This
> 
> Coupled with the fact that I feel this was really rushed through testing, and the government gave the drug makers shielding from liability I personally donâ€™t want any part of it.
> 
> ...


again...reading is fundamental 
https://www.hhs.gov/coronavirus/explaining-operation-warp-speed/index.html


----------



## gotmuddy (Dec 19, 2013)

batmaninja said:


> My understanding is that the current "flu shot" is about *60% *effective. And it has been around for years with Waymore trials and testing. And you still have to get the flu shot, yearly.
> 
> Any guess how they got to a Covid vac so soon, and so effective?
> 
> Did you read the part that the drug makers get indemnity too, any guesses why?


closer to half that.


----------



## gotmuddy (Dec 19, 2013)

photofishin said:


> I realize that you spouting nonsense on social media doesn't stop many states from locking down, eliminating your freedoms. The court system is a great way to fight this but the vaccine is a MUCH faster way to get back to normalcy.* NOT taking a proven safe vaccine *due to nonsensical fear and misinformation is just stupid at best, REGARDLESS of the numbers you make up.


Excuse me, but what longterm studies have they released? There is a reason vaccines normally take years to approve.

It should trouble EVERYONE that the manufacturers of all vaccines are not responsible for any adverse reactions from their vaccines, even death. There is a special government court that pays out on vaccine lawsuits(not even funded by the makers of the vaccine)


----------



## photofishin (Aug 7, 2009)

gotmuddy said:


> Excuse me, but what longterm studies have they released? There is a reason vaccines normally take years to approve.
> 
> It should trouble EVERYONE that the manufacturers of all vaccines are not responsible for any adverse reactions from their vaccines, even death. There is a special government court that pays out on vaccine lawsuits(not even funded by the makers of the vaccine)


This vaccine has followed all of the stringent standards as other vaccines. I linked to the site Operation Warp Speed. MANY thousands of people were tested. You think you're the one in 100,000 who may have some mild side effects? Sorry but I doubt you're that special.


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## batmaninja (Jul 15, 2010)

WillieT said:


> I also deal in reality, not memes.





WillieT said:


> Google is your friend.


I asked some very simple questions, yet you cant answer them. Even with help from google :fish:.

In my relativity, you should always ask questions when what you are being told, doesn't make mathematical sense.


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## SeaOx 230C (Aug 12, 2005)

photofishin said:


> and you have the freedom to stay home locked in your house minus welfare and income due to poor decisions


You are proposing take the shot or be denied the opportunity to work, eat etc... Where does that fit in a free society?

Thank you for finally responding to at least one of my questions.


----------



## SeaOx 230C (Aug 12, 2005)

photofishin said:


> hilarious that you're arguing against "anti vaxxers" while simultaneously advocating that you won't take this vaccine. Pot meet kettle.


I have already posted that I won't take it now, I will wait. I already said I am not against vaccines, I get the flu vaccine.

I just think this is rushed and we.really have no idea if it's safe.

Again, I'll wait a bit before taking it.

You keep posting read this Or read that. I am well aware of how this came to market. You are not the only person that has read about it.

The difference between us on this is this

You believe it's ok to force this on people.

I do not.


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## photofishin (Aug 7, 2009)

SeaOx 230C said:


> You are proposing take the shot or be denied the opportunity to work, eat etc... Where does that fit in a free society?
> 
> Thank you for finally responding to at least one of my questions.


SCOTUS already says that vaccine mandates don't violate the constitution.


----------



## gotmuddy (Dec 19, 2013)

photofishin said:


> This vaccine has followed all of the stringent standards as other vaccines. I linked to the site Operation Warp Speed. MANY thousands of people were tested. You think you're the one in 100,000 who may have some mild side effects? Sorry but I doubt you're that special.


Again, where are the LONGTERM studies that are mandatory for any other vaccine?sad_smiles


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## photofishin (Aug 7, 2009)

gotmuddy said:


> Again, where are the LONGTERM studies that are mandatory for any other vaccine?sad_smiles


so you're telling me that you're willing for millions to starve and stay out of work due to your fear of supposed unknown side effects? Your "cure" is FAR worse than any side effects likely to be seen.


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## photofishin (Aug 7, 2009)

This shows the attitude of conservative anti vaxxers


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## Imtheman (Sep 28, 2018)

photofishin said:


> SCOTUS already says that vaccine mandates don't violate the constitution.


And I will say it again for the kids in back.

THE SUPREME COURT ISN'T LAST BECAUSE IT'S RIGHT.
IT IS ONLY RIGHT BECAUSE IT IS LAST.

And site the case, because without a case associated, any info out of the supreme court is nothing but an op/ ed.


----------



## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

It seems that depending on which side you want to defend, a fairly logical argument could be made. 



One side is leery of our Feds for sure. The Feds put out "Reefer Madness", proving they will lie to us. 



However, I will just do whatever my doctor suggests.


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## gotmuddy (Dec 19, 2013)

photofishin said:


> so you're telling me that you're willing for millions to starve and stay out of work due to your fear of supposed unknown side effects? Your "cure" is FAR worse than any side effects likely to be seen.


Guess what genius, the only reason people are out of work because the GOVERNMENT will not let them. And no one is starving, so push your liberal BS agenda cart down the road


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## gotmuddy (Dec 19, 2013)

photofishin said:


> This shows the attitude of conservative anti vaxxers


I guess I don't see how this supports your argument. He made a faulty product and was held responsible for it. Vaccine manufacturers have none of the responsibility, but ALL of the profit still.


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## photofishin (Aug 7, 2009)

gotmuddy said:


> I guess I don't see how this supports your argument. He made a faulty product and was held responsible for it. Vaccine manufacturers have none of the responsibility, but ALL of the profit still.


It just shows the many idiocies of refusing to take a vaccine that is safe and 95% effective, especially when you factor in how much of the US population is out of work/suffering because of covid. We could wipe it out in less than two months if everyone would take it...but you'd rather keep the country shut down and force others to suffer. I call that selfish...not freedom restricting as several people here keep harping on.


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## photofishin (Aug 7, 2009)

gotmuddy said:


> Guess what genius, the only reason people are out of work because the GOVERNMENT will not let them. And no one is starving, so push your liberal BS agenda cart down the road


sorry but I'm as Reagan conservative as they come. I voted for Trump twice, once in 2016 and once in 2020. I believe in following the constitution and keeping our gun rights. The REASON the government is keeping things shut down, like it or not...is because of Covid. Right or wrong...the vaccine eliminates the virus and gets people back to work. Stop being obtuse because you're afraid of a vaccine.


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## batmaninja (Jul 15, 2010)

photofishin said:


> I believe in following the constitution and keeping our gun rights. The REASON the government is keeping things shut down, like it or not...is because of Covid.


Can you show me this paragraph in the constitution?

Funny the government shut down business, but hasn't shut down taxes on businesses.


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

photofishin said:


> It just shows the many idiocies of refusing to take a vaccine that is safe and 95% effective, especially when you factor in how much of the US population is out of work/suffering because of covid. We could wipe it out in less than two months if everyone would take it...but you'd rather keep the country shut down and force others to suffer. I call that selfish...not freedom restricting as several people here keep harping on.


 Thalidomide was (and is) safe and very effective as well.


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## photofishin (Aug 7, 2009)

batmaninja said:


> Can you show me this paragraph in the constitution?
> 
> Funny the government shut down business, but hasn't shut down taxes on businesses.


Politicians are using covid as an excuse to keep things shut down. Tell me how you're going to stop NY, Oregon, California and a host of other liberal states from staying shut down, thereby crippling the economy. The FASTEST and most effective way is to eradicate the virus by taking a vaccine. Not only does it keep Grandma safe...it allows me to give you a big old hug without a face mask.


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## photofishin (Aug 7, 2009)

https://journalofethics.ama-assn.org/article/mandatory-vaccination-legal-time-epidemic/2006-04


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## batmaninja (Jul 15, 2010)

photofishin said:


> Politicians are using covid as an excuse to keep things shut down.


No argument here.

So, what protects our rights going forward, if we give up some here? You are willing to throw out our constitution for just a little bit of perceived safety, I am not. :texasflag


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## old 37 (Nov 30, 2014)

To me , doing what you can , like wearing a mask, getting a shot, whatever has nothing at all with our Rights , it is all about being considerate of others enough to bite your tongue and do it .


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## gotmuddy (Dec 19, 2013)

photofishin said:


> sorry but I'm as Reagan conservative as they come. I voted for Trump twice, once in 2016 and once in 2020. I believe in following the constitution and keeping our gun rights. The REASON the government is keeping things shut down, like it or not...is because of Covid. Right or wrong...the vaccine eliminates the virus and gets people back to work. Stop being obtuse because you're afraid of a vaccine.


The government is not LETTING people work. it has been readily proven that people can work but the government is not LETTING them because they can control them.

I am not being obtuse, and I do not need the vaccine, I already had covid and had zero(none, zilch "0") symptoms


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## Imtheman (Sep 28, 2018)

older 37 said:


> To me , doing what you can , like wearing a mask, getting a shot, whatever has nothing at all with our Rights , it is all about being considerate of others enough to bite your tongue and do it .


It may not be about rights to YOU. To ME, it is the ONLY thing it is about.

These debates fascinate me. On one hand you have a group of people upset with what the country is becoming / has become and THE SAME GROUP of people are supporting the policies that totally disregard and usurp all personal freedoms and rights and they are TOTALLY OK with it. Heck they even advocate for it, because it fits with their views on what they believe their immediate needs to be. To heck with the precedence it sets, to heck with history, to heck with the long term affects on our society, to heck with anything else.


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## glennkoks (Jun 24, 2009)

older 37 said:


> To me , doing what you can , like wearing a mask, getting a shot, whatever has nothing at all with our Rights , it is all about being considerate of others enough to bite your tongue and do it .


I can't hit green enough times about this comment. Wearing a mask is the most minor of inconveniences. It's been proven to "help". Not a cure all but it does help. As will a vaccine.

As Americans do the "American" thing and do what is necessary to help.


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

Santana said:


> I can't hit green enough times about this comment. Wearing a mask is the most minor of inconveniences. It's been proven to "help". Not a cure all but it does help. As will a vaccine.
> 
> As Americans do the "American" thing and do what is necessary to help.


Absolutely correct.


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## boom! (Jul 10, 2004)

Trump just announced that he would not be getting the vaccination until his doctor tells him that he needs to. He must not read 2cool. Lol


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

Santana said:


> I can't hit green enough times about this comment. Wearing a mask is the most minor of inconveniences. It's been proven to "help". Not a cure all but it does help. As will a vaccine.
> 
> As Americans do the "American" thing and do what is necessary to help.


No, thatâ€™s not the most minor of inconveniences. the most minor of inconveniences would be having to waste the breath to say â€œleave me the hell aloneâ€. Much more effective than a mask, too.


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## grinderman (Jun 22, 2004)

I applaud science for getting a vaccine to market in a historical record time but I wonâ€™t be getting in line to take it until there is more science to prove itâ€™s safe as in the typical years of study the fda requires for a vaccine and not a meager 6-8 month trial. Someone earlier in this thread said it but if you only have a less than 2% chance of covid causing severe to death symptoms but the actual long term risks of the vaccine are unknown(indisputable fact today) what if, and I mean what IF, taking a rushed vaccine to stop a less than 2% risk increases your risk of liver failure, cancer, etc 20%, 60% etc-things the scientists donâ€™t know and canâ€™t predict yet. Me personally Iâ€™m taking the more known odds right now and living my life


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## c hook (Jul 6, 2016)

*??*



grinderman said:


> I applaud science for getting a vaccine to market in a historical record time but I wonâ€™t be getting in line to take it until there is more science to prove itâ€™s safe as in the typical years of study the fda requires for a vaccine and not a meager 6-8 month trial. Someone earlier in this thread said it but if you only have a less than 2% chance of covid causing severe to death symptoms but the actual long term risks of the vaccine are unknown(indisputable fact today) what if, and I mean what IF, taking a rushed vaccine to stop a less than 2% risk increases your risk of liver failure, cancer, etc 20%, 60% etc-things the scientists donâ€™t know and canâ€™t predict yet. Me personally Iâ€™m taking the more known odds right now and living my life


there's less that a 1 % chance of dying from covid, and 90% of infected are asymptomatic. The CDC revised the 210,000 number to 9,000 months back, 210,000 people died with covid, 9,000 died from covid. Hence, the real number currently isn't 300,000 but realistically 12,000 may 15,000. Infants and teens are virtually immune to it. I'm the messenger stating the facts, don't shoot the messenger. :texasflag


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

grinderman said:


> I applaud science for getting a vaccine to market in a historical record time but I wonâ€™t be getting in line to take it until there is more science to prove itâ€™s safe as in the typical years of study the fda requires for a vaccine and not a meager 6-8 month trial. Someone earlier in this thread said it but if you only have a less than 2% chance of covid causing severe to death symptoms but the actual long term risks of the vaccine are unknown(indisputable fact today) what if, and I mean what IF, taking a rushed vaccine to stop a less than 2% risk increases your risk of liver failure, cancer, etc 20%, 60% etc-things the scientists donâ€™t know and canâ€™t predict yet. Me personally Iâ€™m taking the more known odds right now and living my life


Kinda sounds like the odds of those happening from sitting too close to the tv.


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## grinderman (Jun 22, 2004)

c hook said:


> there's less that a 1 % chance of dying from covid, and 90% of infected are asymptomatic. The CDC revised the 210,000 number to 9,000 months back, 210,000 people died with covid, 9,000 died from covid. Hence, the real number currently isn't 300,000 but realistically 12,000 may 15,000. Infants and teens are virtually immune to it. I'm the messenger stating the facts, don't shoot the messenger. :texasflag


Not arguing any stats - why I said less than 2% because at some point it becomes immaterial since the risk is so darn low for a typical person. Do I take precautions when out of my home or office, yes, wear a mask, yes, social distance yes. Do I require my offices or my 17 employees or my 2000 plus clients to wear a mask in our offices-no - that is their choice. Do I freak out if I go in a grocery store and someone isnt wearing a mask-no nor do I really care. But I'm not going to take an untested vaccine that is what 90% effective to stop me from getting a virus I'm less than 2% worried about and nobody can definitively give me the long-term risks. The math doesnt add up-dont care about the politics of it-it logically makes no sense to me


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## c hook (Jul 6, 2016)

*right*



grinderman said:


> Not arguing any stats - why I said less than 2% because at some point it becomes immaterial since the risk is so darn low for a typical person. Do I take precautions when out of my home or office, yes, wear a mask, yes, social distance yes. Do I require my offices or my 17 employees or my 2000 plus clients to wear a mask in our offices-no - that is their choice. Do I freak out if I go in a grocery store and someone isnt wearing a mask-no nor do I really care. But I'm not going to take an untested vaccine that is what 90% effective to stop me from getting a virus I'm less than 2% worried about and nobody can definitively give me the long-term risks. The math doesnt add up-dont care about the politics of it-it logically makes no sense to me


agreed I was just adding to your post. IMHO I feel there is absolutely nothing to worry about unless you're elderly with health issues. Or anyone with known health issues should be very cautious. We must open the world back up 100% immediately, government needs to get out of the way, and let's get back to business and our lives. Let's not allow this kind of nonsense to occur again, and demand everything open now not tomorrow. The collateral damage is catastrophic, 100 fold in comparison to the actually covid damage. :texasflag


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## Imtheman (Sep 28, 2018)

Santana said:


> I can't hit green enough times about this comment. Wearing a mask is the most minor of inconveniences. It's been proven to "help". Not a cure all but it does help. As will a vaccine.
> 
> As Americans do the "American" thing and do what is necessary to help.


How much does the mask help?

Ball park numbers here.

Are you 80% less likely to get the virus or 8%?

Does it prevent spread 90% or 9%?

Because I hear a lot of people saying the words but nobody can tell me anything real. 95 % of the articles people claim are â€œscienceâ€ appear to nothing but a well formed op/ed piece.

I hear people saying it is a low cost action, but nobody can tell me what the cost is.

(And I donâ€™t need numbers for an N95 mask that is routinely changed and well fitted. I need the practical numbers for the masked people are wearing right now.)


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## glennkoks (Jun 24, 2009)

Imtheman said:


> How much does the mask help?
> 
> Ball park numbers here.
> 
> ...


There are literally dozens of studies out there documenting the effectiveness of masks in reducing the airborne viral lode. I could go through them all and provide links but I get the feeling it would be wasting my time.

Your mind is clearly made up and it has been my experience that people on internet forums are not really open to things like "scientific studies".

I suggest you use google to search "effectiveness of wearing a mask" and no less than a hundred will pop up.

I don't know about you but I certainly would not let anyone even clean my teeth at the dentist's without wearing one. And I am curious if you would let one of your children have a medical procedure done by a medical team that was not wearing masks?

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32845196/


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## SeaOx 230C (Aug 12, 2005)

photofishin said:


> SCOTUS already says that vaccine mandates don't violate the constitution.


Really? That's what you came up with?

Ok

SCOTUS says abortion is perfectly legal to where now many consider it woman's right to have one if she chooses.

Is that ok in your Book? SCOTUS say it ok right?


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## photofishin (Aug 7, 2009)

batmaninja said:


> No argument here.
> 
> So, what protects our rights going forward, if we give up some here? You are willing to throw out our constitution for just a little bit of perceived safety, I am not. :texasflag


SCOTUS already says that mandating a vaccine doesn't violate your rights.
https://www.healthline.com/health-news/covid-19-vaccination-refusal-mandate#Plan-C:-General-mandates


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## photofishin (Aug 7, 2009)

gotmuddy said:


> The government is not LETTING people work. it has been readily proven that people can work but the government is not LETTING them because they can control them.
> 
> I am not being obtuse, and I do not need the vaccine, I already had covid and had zero(none, zilch "0") symptoms


yay for you but your "immunity" to covid only lasts 3-4 months max


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## photofishin (Aug 7, 2009)

SeaOx 230C said:


> Really? That's what you came up with?
> 
> Ok
> 
> ...


I simply said it because of the ignorant statements people like you are spewing online. NOBODY is infringing on your rights if you're forced to get a simple shot that will eliminate this pandemic. If you'd ever had a loved one nearly die because they didn't have a simple vaccine, you'd think differently. I can't believe any American conservative can wear a tinfoil hat with regards to vaccines.


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## photofishin (Aug 7, 2009)

SeaOx 230C said:


> Really? That's what you came up with?
> 
> Ok
> 
> ...


By the way, SCOTUS did NOT say it was every woman's right to get an abortion. Roe vs Wade simply didn't define when a fetus becomes a human life. I'm pro life too and think that needs to be revisited by SCOTUS someday...however when it comes to protecting society from diseases, no matter how deadly...vaccines have been proven to be effective. Measles and Mumps and Polio were eradicated by vaccines. Only in the advent of social media did this hysteria come about pushing the anti-vaccine narrative.
Everyone seems to be so self centered today thinking "it won't happen to me or my family so it doesn't exist or it doesn't apply".


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## batmaninja (Jul 15, 2010)

Santana said:


> There are literally dozens of studies out there documenting the effectiveness of masks in reducing the airborne viral lode.


OK, then why should we ever stop wearing masks ? Virus's are here forever.


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## c hook (Jul 6, 2016)

*??*



Imtheman said:


> How much does the mask help?
> 
> Ball park numbers here.
> 
> ...


everywhere i go they hand me a mask, so i have a few dozen on the back floorboard of my truck. they are dirty, some have been used some haven't. i often grab one from the pile, it could be infected, i don't know. point i'm making is masks are a superspreaders. they're dirty, most people don't wear them properly, and even if they did they don't work. mask give people a false sense of security, thus allowing them to infect elderly and killing them, because they thought they were safe with the mask. if mask and social distancing work, what happened to the three week lockdown we were told when this first hit the US. mask wearers please wake up, you're killing the elderly, you claim to be saving. :texasflag


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## gotmuddy (Dec 19, 2013)

photofishin said:


> yay for you but your "immunity" *to covid only lasts 3-4 months max*


So your willing to take two vaccinations every 3-4 months for a virus that has less than a 1% mortality rate?:rotfl:


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## Imtheman (Sep 28, 2018)

Santana said:


> There are literally dozens of studies out there documenting the effectiveness of masks in reducing the airborne viral lode. I could go through them all and provide links but I get the feeling it would be wasting my time.
> 
> Your mind is clearly made up and it has been my experience that people on internet forums are not really open to things like "scientific studies".
> 
> ...


SEVEN patients isn't a study.

Second, Nobody is wearing the mask that article sites, in the condition that study sites and ALL it said was is well if you had to cough an N95 mask (Which NOBODY IS WEARING) it may help contain a cough. It didn't say a mask that has been saturated and worn for weeks or a mask that was thrown together from fabric scraps or some bandanna worn Jesse James style.

I specifically said "(And I donâ€™t need numbers for an N95 mask that is routinely changed and well fitted. I need the practical numbers for the masked people are wearing right now.)"


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## photofishin (Aug 7, 2009)

gotmuddy said:


> So your willing to take two vaccinations every 3-4 months for a virus that has less than a 1% mortality rate?:rotfl:


1. we don't have to take 2-3 vaccines every 3-4 months. It's 2 doses and taking those will create herd immunity for the whole country.
2. 1% is a small number of dead people. That doesn't take into account long term effects of survivors which is much higher. My wife is on permanent disability due to complications of H1N1 which almost killed her. THAT wasn't as infectious yet she was part of the percentage of people that were healthy beforehand and 4 days after diagnosis was on life support. We have a whole country that's shut down and a simple vaccine will solve this problem. Your 1% represents 3.3 million people...not a small number.


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## chuck richey (May 22, 2004)

We have a whole country shut down due to media doom and gloom along with democrats playing games.


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## Imtheman (Sep 28, 2018)

photofishin said:


> 1. we don't have to take 2-3 vaccines every 3-4 months. It's 2 doses and taking those will create herd immunity for the whole country.
> .......


Which Vaccine?

Moderna said theirs is effective for 3 months.

Pfizer isn't saying how long it is effective for anywhere where I can find it.

And 3 months isn't long enough to get heard immunity. The people getting the Vaccine in March, well now the people who just got it are susceptible to the virus again.


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## gotmuddy (Dec 19, 2013)

photofishin said:


> 1. we don't have to take 2-3 vaccines every 3-4 months. It's 2 doses and taking those will create herd immunity for the whole country.
> 2. 1% is a small number of dead people. That doesn't take into account long term effects of survivors which is much higher. My wife is on permanent disability due to complications of H1N1 which almost killed her. THAT wasn't as infectious yet she was part of the percentage of people that were healthy beforehand and 4 days after diagnosis was on life support. We have a whole country that's shut down and a simple vaccine will solve this problem. Your 1% represents 3.3 million people...not a small number.


1)I am not an immunologist, but if my natural immunity only lasts a few months(which is almost never the case with viruses), then why would you expect fake immunity from a vaccine to last longer??

2)Your math is way off. A 1% mortality rate is only IF you get the virus. Not everyone gets it so we have no way to tell realistically without testing everyone in the country on the same day.


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## photofishin (Aug 7, 2009)

gotmuddy said:


> 1)I am not an immunologist, but if my natural immunity only lasts a few months(which is almost never the case with viruses), then why would you expect fake immunity from a vaccine to last longer??
> 
> 2)Your math is way off. A 1% mortality rate is only IF you get the virus. Not everyone gets it so we have no way to tell realistically without testing everyone in the country on the same day.


my comment still stands and is relevant. If most of the US population is vaccinated by May, the virus effectively will be wiped out and we can get back to some sense of normalcy...unless you're a Democrat and you want the continued lockdowns, I can't see a reason why someone wouldn't take a vaccine. Again...this is all internet conspiracy and fear versus reality.


----------



## photofishin (Aug 7, 2009)

gotmuddy said:


> 1)I am not an immunologist, but if my natural immunity only lasts a few months(which is almost never the case with viruses), then why would you expect fake immunity from a vaccine to last longer??
> 
> 2)Your math is way off. A 1% mortality rate is only IF you get the virus. Not everyone gets it so we have no way to tell realistically without testing everyone in the country on the same day.


by the way...why don't you consult real data versus something one of your buddies conjured up on social media by reading a Kamala Harris meme

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/vaccine-benefits/facts.html


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## Imtheman (Sep 28, 2018)

photofishin said:


> by the way...why don't you consult real data versus something one of your buddies conjured up on social media by reading a Kamala Harris meme
> 
> https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/vaccine-benefits/facts.html


The CDC discredited itself early on with asinine predictions, poor data, and inconsistent / changing recommendations.

Forgive me if I don't fall all over their FACT SHEET, that contain the word "may" quiet a few times.


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## batmaninja (Jul 15, 2010)

photofishin said:


> If most of the US population is vaccinated by May, the virus effectively will be wiped out and we can get back to some sense of normalcy.


If most of the US would just quarantine for only 2 weeks, the virus effectively will be wiped out and we can get back to some sense of normalcy. That was about 200 days ago. :headknock

Now the goal lines have moved, just a wee bit.


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## photofishin (Aug 7, 2009)

Imtheman said:


> The CDC discredited itself early on with asinine predictions, poor data, and inconsistent / changing recommendations.
> 
> Forgive me if I don't fall all over their FACT SHEET, that contain the word "may" quiet a few times.


So your answer is to cower in fear and pretend the CIA is listening in while you take a dump...got it


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## Imtheman (Sep 28, 2018)

photofishin said:


> So your answer is to cower in fear and pretend the CIA is listening in while you take a dump...got it


How am I cowering? I wear a mask for absolute minimal amount, I donâ€™t avoid people or crowds, Iâ€™m living my life pretty good. I sure as heck Iâ€™m not staying home, wrapped up with a mask in hopes that some shot made by big Pharma is going to save me.

I actually feel Pretty dang bullet proof when it comes to this. Certainly not cowering. Iâ€™m more of the opinion, let nature take itâ€™s course. Itâ€™s how the world / nature maintains its own population control.


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## longhornbubba (Jul 7, 2006)

chuck richey said:


> We have a whole country shut down due to media doom and gloom along with democrats playing games.


Last I checked Abbott is a republican some of you aren't too smart. He cost a lot of people their businesses and I hope it cost him when re-election comes around.


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## glennkoks (Jun 24, 2009)

Imtheman said:


> SEVEN patients isn't a study.
> 
> Second, Nobody is wearing the mask that article sites, in the condition that study sites and ALL it said was is well if you had to cough an N95 mask (Which NOBODY IS WEARING) it may help contain a cough. It didn't say a mask that has been saturated and worn for weeks or a mask that was thrown together from fabric scraps or some bandanna worn Jesse James style.
> 
> I specifically said "(And I donâ€™t need numbers for an N95 mask that is routinely changed and well fitted. I need the practical numbers for the masked people are wearing right now.)"


From a guy who quotes Friedrich Von Hayek I would expect a higher minimum.

According to the Lancet, in one of the most comprehensive reviews of 172 studies concluded this:

"These data also suggest that wearing face masks protects people (both health-care workers and the general public) against infection by these coronaviruses, and that eye protection could confer additional benefit."

Since you chose not to answer, I once again would like to ask. Would you let any medical professional perform a procedure on your child or loved one without wearing a mask?

We will be awaiting your response...

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/...al&utm_source=twitter&hss_channel=tw-27013292


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## photofishin (Aug 7, 2009)

Imtheman said:


> How am I cowering? I wear a mask for absolute minimal amount, I donâ€™t avoid people or crowds, Iâ€™m living my life pretty good. I sure as heck Iâ€™m not staying home, wrapped up with a mask in hopes that some shot made by big Pharma is going to save me.
> 
> I actually feel Pretty dang bullet proof when it comes to this. Certainly not cowering. Iâ€™m more of the opinion, let nature take itâ€™s course. Itâ€™s how the world / nature maintains its own population control.


you're living in fear, pretending that you're "bullet proof" while exposing others.
My wife was healthy at 36 years old. She had symptoms of H1N1 (which is a LOT like this virus except less contagious)on a Sunday, got diagnosed with pneumonia on a Monday and by the next Thursday had to be put into an induced coma on life support. 90 days later, she finally was home. 15 years later and she's been on permanent disability for 10 years. She was just as healthy as anybody. This DOES only affect a small percentage of the population with regards to deaths...but that doesn't count the NUMEROUS people who get it and will have lifelong side effects. You can be selfish and play Typhoid Mary or you can take a simple safe vaccine that will help eradicate the virus. You see that as a "choice". I see it as an obligation to my fellow man.


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## gotmuddy (Dec 19, 2013)

photofishin said:


> you're living in fear, pretending that you're "bullet proof" while exposing others.
> My wife was healthy at 36 years old. She had symptoms of H1N1 (which is a LOT like this virus except less contagious)on a Sunday, got diagnosed with pneumonia on a Monday and by the next Thursday had to be put into an induced coma on life support. 90 days later, she finally was home. 15 years later and she's been on permanent disability for 10 years. She was just as healthy as anybody. This DOES only affect a small percentage of the population with regards to deaths...but that doesn't count the NUMEROUS people who get it and will have lifelong side effects. You can be selfish and play Typhoid Mary or you can take a simple safe vaccine that will help eradicate the virus. You see that as a "choice". I see it as an obligation to my fellow man.


I am very sorry your wife had such a serious reaction to H1N1, I suspect there was a reason she was so severely impacted, like this virus people with compromised immune systems and many other medical issues put them at high risk. It is a choice, even if you don't like it. If the government wanted this gone, it would be gone. Please, take the vaccine, but don't tell me you know whats best for me and my family because you don't. There have been nowhere near enough studies, and none showing long term effects.


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## gotmuddy (Dec 19, 2013)

Santana said:


> Since you chose not to answer, I once again would like to ask. Would you let any medical professional perform a procedure on your child or loved one without wearing a mask?
> 
> We will be awaiting your response...
> 
> https://www.thelancet.com/journals/...al&utm_source=twitter&hss_channel=tw-27013292


apples to oranges. the reason for masks during procedures is to keep foreign objects/liquids from entering the body.


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

gotmuddy said:


> apples to oranges. the reason for masks during procedures is to keep foreign objects/liquids from entering the body.


Not apples to oranges, and you just made the point, because they keep foreign bodies from entering the body. Thatâ€™s why I donâ€™t understand why people have a problem with wearing a mask. It HELPS protect you and those around you.


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## gotmuddy (Dec 19, 2013)

WillieT said:


> Not apples to oranges, and you just made the point, because they keep foreign bodies from entering the body. Thatâ€™s why I donâ€™t understand why people have a problem with wearing a mask. It HELPS protect you and those around you.


Apples to oranges still because when your at wal-mart your not walking around with open wounds(I hope).

I am not denying that if you are sick wearing a mask helps those around you, but its not the miracle cure they would have you believe. If it was then why is california suffering so badly?? They have had mask mandates for more than 6 months AND had lockdowns for a majority of the time.


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## photofishin (Aug 7, 2009)

gotmuddy said:


> I am very sorry your wife had such a serious reaction to H1N1, I suspect there was a reason she was so severely impacted, like this virus people with compromised immune systems and many other medical issues put them at high risk. It is a choice, even if you don't like it. If the government wanted this gone, it would be gone. Please, take the vaccine, but don't tell me you know whats best for me and my family because you don't. There have been nowhere near enough studies, and none showing long term effects.


sorry but the longterm effects of continued shutdowns are FAR more worse than any supposed side effects from a simple shot...by the way, a vaccine using methodologies and science we've had for 40 years. Your "suspicion" of my wife is absolutely wrong...again she was a healthy 36 year old woman with a strong immune system. This can happen to ANYBODY...even you or your family. The fact you place fear of the unknown over safety is beyond me.


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

gotmuddy said:


> Apples to oranges still because when your at wal-mart your not walking around with open wounds(I hope).
> 
> I am not denying that if you are sick wearing a mask helps those around you, but its not the miracle cure they would have you believe. If it was then why is california suffering so badly?? They have had mask mandates for more than 6 months AND had lockdowns for a majority of the time.


Never said it was a cure, but it does offer some degree of protection. Mandates and lockdowns havenâ€™t worked because people have not followed them. Thatâ€™s one reason weâ€™re seeing a spike now after all the thanksgiving gatherings. I see people ignoring masks mandates also, thatâ€™s one reason the virus continues to spread.


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## Imtheman (Sep 28, 2018)

WillieT said:


> Not apples to oranges, and you just made the point, because they keep foreign bodies from entering the body. Thatâ€™s why I donâ€™t understand why people have a problem with wearing a mask. It HELPS protect you and those around you.


It is apples and oranges.

A properly fitted, and sterile, N95 mask, applied after a full blown hand scrub down to the elbows, and extensiveness precautions not to touch your own face, will help if you are standing over an open wound and sawing into someone's body.

NONE OF THAT is what is happening, going to happen, or is reasonable.

Not the N95 Mask
Not the sterile or even clean mask
Not the scrubbing
Not the non face touching
Not the putting you hands in someones open wound in close enough proximity to see

NONE OF IT

This is like saying a race car driver wears a NOMEX suit and special shoes, so it is clear I need a Nomex fire suit and fancy driving shoes for my daily driving.

*"Thereâ€™s no reason to be walking around with a mask. When youâ€™re in the middle of an outbreak, wearing a mask might make people feel a little bit better and it might even block a droplet, but itâ€™s not providing the perfect protection that people think that it is. And, often, there are unintended consequences â€" people keep fiddling with the mask and they keep touching their face"* 
_Anthony Fauci, MD_

I am not a fan of Fauci, but he sure nailed the idea the people think it will give a BIG level of protection.


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## photofishin (Aug 7, 2009)

Imtheman said:


> *"Thereâ€™s no reason to be walking around with a mask. When youâ€™re in the middle of an outbreak, wearing a mask might make people feel a little bit better and it might even block a droplet, but itâ€™s not providing the perfect protection that people think that it is. And, often, there are unintended consequences â€" people keep fiddling with the mask and they keep touching their face"*
> _Anthony Fauci, MD_


maybe you should quote a RECENT quote...not something that's months old. When this virus first came out, there were a LOT of statements which today we know for a fact aren't true. Wearing a mask in public DOES protect others when you cough or sneeze. Washing your hands thoroughly is even more important.
Here are the current guidelines https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/faq.html#Prevention


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## Rubberback (Sep 9, 2008)

I'm far from knowing much about this China Flu. Not sold on anyone knowing that much.
I'm gonna tell a story about my quail.
I raise about 500 a year. Mainly as a hobby and I eat some and sell the rest. Well I've learned a lot over 10 years of this. 
My birds were getting interbred. I knew this. Any who I hatched about 300 and moved them over to the flight pen.
Well they started dying like 6 to 8 a day. I don't like to see things die that I'm in charge of. There's an animal vet right down the road.
Being in the country these vets specialize in cows horses chickens etc. I went by there and explained what was going on with my birds.
Doc says bring me one dead and one alive. OK done!
He sent I guess the blood or whatever to I'm guessing A&M. He calls me. Yes sir what's the scoop.
He tells me the birds have a virus. I said o really. Yup it seems to be an air born virus. He said hopefully its not widespread. 
Ok so now what ? I have something you can put in their waterers. Should clear it up in a week. He said give it to the quail and your chickens.
Cleared it up in less than a week it was almost instantanious. But I explained to him that the birds were getting way overbred . In other words Interbred. He said yes that effects the birds immune system and they can't fight off a virus like they could in the past.
This is just a thought don't cuss me out and say I'm an idiot I already know that.
This could be what we are facing. Now can I get Dr Faucci's job and make millions . LOL!
Good luck all. FYI the cost of the vet call was around 500. Lets just say I didn't make a dime that year.


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## Imtheman (Sep 28, 2018)

photofishin said:


> maybe you should quote a RECENT quote...not something that's months old. When this virus first came out, there were a LOT of statements which today we know for a fact aren't true. Wearing a mask in public DOES protect others when you cough or sneeze. Washing your hands thoroughly is even more important.
> Here are the current guidelines https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/faq.html#Prevention


That quote was trying to quell the Karens out there saying "DR's wear masks we MUST ALL WEAR MASKS 
(Hmm, that sounds familiar, like something I just read).

FINALLY CDC got tired of hearing form Karens, and said F- it, let them wear mask, what could it hurt and we're tired of hearing from them, and now here we are.

and when you listen to people talk they say stuff like, well, "it's a small cost, so what does it matter". They don't say how effective it is with any empirical data. Just, 'it's cheap and maybe it helps a little'.

And when you ask for data they say, "Well in a lab, we had 7 people cough while wearing a fresh N95 mask we just gave them and fitted them with, and the petri dish didn't show any growth" That is not exactly real world empirical data based on the mask or the conditions the public is wearing / living in that I was hoping for.


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## photofishin (Aug 7, 2009)

Rubberback said:


> I'm far from knowing much about this China Flu. Not sold on anyone knowing that much.
> I'm gonna tell a story about my quail.
> I raise about 500 a year. Mainly as a hobby and I eat some and sell the rest. Well I've learned a lot over 10 years of this.
> My birds were getting interbred. In knew this. Any who I hatched about 300 and moved them over to the flight pen.
> ...


So you're calling us inbred? LOL


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## photofishin (Aug 7, 2009)

Imtheman said:


> That quote was trying to quell the Karens out there saying "DR's wear masks we MUST ALL WEAR MASKS
> (Hmm, that sounds familiar, like something I just read).
> 
> FINALLY CDC got tired of hearing form Karens, and said F- it, let them wear mask, what could it hurt and we're tired of hearing from them, and now here we are.
> ...


Again..you're posting some made up nonsense you created in your head versus actually looking at facts. The CDC data today is correct.


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## Imtheman (Sep 28, 2018)

photofishin said:


> Again..you're posting some made up nonsense you created in your head versus actually looking at facts. The CDC data today is correct.


They were lying then, but the data today is correct?

The check is in the mail. I promise this time.

I am NOT making up that the first quote was a response to Karens.

I am NOT making up people saying "it is a small cost and may help"

I am NOT making up the lack of published empirical data, or the data that is available.

I am inferring why the change, but it follows with the events at the time.


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## Rubberback (Sep 9, 2008)

photofishin said:


> So you're calling us inbred? LOL


Here we go! I said my quail were interbred can you read. I knew I shouldn't of posted this. 
It was merely a thought I had. It makes more sense to me than what Faucci is saying.


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## photofishin (Aug 7, 2009)

Imtheman said:


> They were lying then, but the data today is correct?
> 
> The check is in the mail. I promise this time.
> 
> ...


you remind me of a quote I saw this morning: If you see your glass as half empty...pour it into a smaller glass and stop complaining


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## SeaOx 230C (Aug 12, 2005)

photofishin said:


> By the way, SCOTUS did NOT say it was every woman's right to get an abortion. Roe vs Wade simply didn't define when a fetus becomes a human life. I'm pro life too and think that needs to be revisited by SCOTUS someday...however when it comes to protecting society from diseases, no matter how deadly...vaccines have been proven to be effective. Measles and Mumps and Polio were eradicated by vaccines. Only in the advent of social media did this hysteria come about pushing the anti-vaccine narrative.
> Everyone seems to be so self centered today thinking "it won't happen to me or my family so it doesn't exist or it doesn't apply".


You didn't answer.

SCOTUS says abortion is all good. That tells me all I need to know about the so called Supreme Court. I

You can't have it both ways. You claim all is good on forced vaccines cause SCOTUS says so. Then turn around and say well they're wrong about abortion.

If they are wrong about abortion they can just as easily be wrong about vaccines or anything else for that matter.

I am not and have not said " it won't happen to me or mine". I have several loved ones that have had it. One was in the ER twice, he had the covid pneumonia as it's called.

You post alot of junk about people that you have no idea of. You have no idea what any of us have seen, experienced,or done. It is insulting and simply shows you can't make your argument

Look I get it, I read what you posted about your wife. That's tragic I wish she and you had not had this experience. I understand how that can lead to fear of what is happening today.

However what happened to her and you Does not give you Or any one else the right to force this on everyone else.

Covid did not shut the economy down our Government did that. It was not and is not necessary in my humble opinion. I think it has done more harm to the Nation than the virus itself ever will.

How can you on one hand claim to be so Conservative, and then turn around be all for forcing people to accept this? Force them with consequences.... what was it You posted......something about locked in, no medical, no welfare, nothing?


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## SeaOx 230C (Aug 12, 2005)

It warrants repeating.

So many that claim to be all for Freedom and America.

So many willing to force their fellow American to do their Will. Force them with consequences such as being locked in, not able to work, no income no welfare. 

Is there much difference in the Right and the Left? Seems ever time I turn around one side o the others is trying to control the People. All for our own good of course.


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## Imtheman (Sep 28, 2018)

photofishin said:


> you remind me of a quote I saw this morning: If you see your glass as half empty...pour it into a smaller glass and stop complaining
> 
> 
> > Iâ€™ll leave this here
> ...


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## SeaOx 230C (Aug 12, 2005)

Imtheman said:


> photofishin said:
> 
> 
> > you remind me of a quote I saw this morning: If you see your glass as half empty...pour it into a smaller glass and stop complaining
> ...


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

Imtheman said:


> It is apples and oranges.
> 
> A properly fitted, and sterile, N95 mask, applied after a full blown hand scrub down to the elbows, and extensiveness precautions not to touch your own face, will help if you are standing over an open wound and sawing into someone's body.
> 
> ...


NOTtheman, itâ€™s not apples to oranges. Please read and comprehend, I never said it was a cure. I said a mask Helps to prevent the spread. My son is an RN, my wife was a respiratory therapist, weâ€™ve had conversations about the mask. My son said he would NEVER go to work without a mask. My wife says sheâ€™s glad sheâ€™s retired, but wouldnâ€™t consider anyone working in a hospital these days without a mask, and doesnâ€™t understand anyone balking at wearing a mask. It DOES help. Pay attention to people that work in the medical field and most all of them will tell you a mask gives some degree of protection, especially if everyone is wearing them.


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## gotmuddy (Dec 19, 2013)

WillieT said:


> Never said it was a cure, but it does offer some degree of protection. Mandates and lockdowns havenâ€™t worked because people have not followed them. Thatâ€™s one reason weâ€™re seeing a spike now after all the thanksgiving gatherings. I see people ignoring masks mandates also, thatâ€™s one reason the virus continues to spread.


APPLES TO ORANGES.

If it was apples to apples you would see surgeons wearing n95 masks and better when they do surgeries but you do not do you?


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## batmaninja (Jul 15, 2010)

WillieT said:


> My son is an RN, my wife was a respiratory therapist, weâ€™ve had conversations about the mask. My son said he would NEVER go to work without a mask.


Help me understand this please. Your son and wife learned about these virus's in medical school, as well as the vaccines, cures, mask/helpers, washing hands, etc. Battled the flu virus (and all of the other virus's) every year on the front lines of the healthcare industry.

But they didnt wear a mask........until the government told them too???????????

:ac550:


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

batmaninja said:


> Help me understand this please. Your son and wife learned about these virus's in medical school, as well as the vaccines, cures, mask/helpers, washing hands, etc. Battled the flu virus (and all of the other virus's) every year on the front lines of the healthcare industry.
> 
> But they didnt wear a mask........until the government told them too???????????
> 
> :ac550:


They wore a mask when protection was needed. The government never told them to do so. My son worked as an ER nurse until last month. He was on the front lines when this all started. He doesnâ€™t work without the mask. Iâ€™m sorry if you are having a problem with comprehension. Nobody in the ER works without a mask, because they want all the protection they can get. They understand the mask offers protection. They have enough common sense to know to use anything they can to protect themselves.


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## Imtheman (Sep 28, 2018)

SeaOx 230C said:


> It warrants repeating.
> 
> So many that claim to be all for Freedom and America.
> 
> ...


Sorry I missed this.

PEOPLE DON'T WANT FREEDOM, THEY WANT SECURITY.

(yeah, it's a movie quote, but it's true).

Left / Right, it doesn't matter.

The concepts of freedom & liberty are dangerous.
after-all they are about the freedom to make bad decisions and do dumb stuff. You don't need protection from making safe choices, staying on the clear path and doing the safe things. You can do those and NOBODY cares. Freedom is the right to make bad decisions, or decisions that benefit you over the whole.

It deeply saddens me that the same people who act (and honestly feel ) that they are great patriots and will talk about our military and the sacrifice they make for FREEDOM. They were either pronouncing hollow sentiments or never understood what freedom is. 
(Honestly it makes me nauseous, but maybe it's because I have eaten like **** today).

I now need to take a digital detox, because at this point the energy in this and the disappointment and grief I feel for my fellow Americans is probably worse for me than the virus. So I am checking out for a while. Y'all carry on and enjoy your holiday season.

Marry Christmas to y'all


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## photofishin (Aug 7, 2009)

SeaOx 230C said:


> It warrants repeating.
> 
> So many that claim to be all for Freedom and America.
> 
> ...


it warrants repeating...if you're a tin foil hat wearing red neck conservative afraid of actual facts and science and you rely on Internet hoaxes about vaccines that turn you into zombies...you just might be stupid. If this applies to you...your rights don't matter because Darwinism will solve the problem eventually.

By the way...I write this as a gun toting, veteran, Fox News watching, truck drivin, fishing, BBQ eating Texan that voted for Bush and voted for Trump in both elections. I STILL use my brain with regards to vaccines.


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## SeaOx 230C (Aug 12, 2005)

photofishin said:


> it warrants repeating...if you're a tin foil hat wearing red neck conservative afraid of actual facts and science and you rely on Internet hoaxes about vaccines that turn you into zombies...you just might be stupid. If this applies to you...your rights don't matter because Darwinism will solve the problem eventually.
> 
> By the way...I write this as a gun toting, veteran, Fox News watching, truck drivin, fishing, BBQ eating Texan that voted for Bush and voted for Trump in both elections. I STILL use my brain with regards to vaccines.


Love you Brother.

I don't consider you stupid, or liberal, *******, or any of the many other insulting things you seem to enjoy saying about people you don't know.

I simply view you as some one having a different view on this than I do.

The truth is You can't have a discussion without getting rude an insulting. I thought maybe.......but you can't.

I pray you can come to terms with what drives you to be so insulting to others.

You win the internet. I have had all the rude passive aggressive insults I can stand.

Have a Merry Christmas, may the peace of Jesus be ever in your mind and heart.


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