# Help with cold bore accuracy



## 3footer (Apr 11, 2013)

I'm having trouble getting my rifle to shoot an accurate shot on a cold bore. 

I'm shooting a Remington 700 VSSF in a 22-250 with a 1 in 14 twist. 

Ammo is hand loaded (I'm new to this game). Hornady brass that is full length sized and flash hole deburred. Hornady 50gr vmax using 36 grains of IMR4064. My bullet is seated .005 off the lands. WLR primers

The first shot on a clean bore hits right by 2 inches and high by an inch or so. That is the worst I've experienced. As I continue to shoot (4-5 rounds), my groups close down to 3 shots touching like a clover leaf. 

I've tried different powder charges. 35gr, 35.5 and then 36 grain. I have also tried the hornady 52gr amax with similar results. 

Any advice on what to try next? 

Thanks in advance.


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## BradV (Jun 27, 2012)

My advice would be test it with another shooter. Many cases seem to be cold shooter. If that doesn't show anything, try mapping your cold bore over your next range trips. Save one target and always shoot your cold bore shot only on it. If you see a definite group for cold bore shots I would zero there for first round hits on game. If it is for the range only I would be inclined to adjust as necessary if that is your selected load.


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## mrsh978 (Apr 24, 2006)

A cold bore is also a fouling shot ( if cleaned before) - the residue of powder and copper with have different friction values than before . Not sure if this is the scenario , or as mentioned , you yourself may be getting settled in and being more consistent. Shoot more and have fun


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

mrsh978 said:


> A cold bore is also a fouling shot ( if cleaned before) - the residue of powder and copper with have different friction values than before . Not sure if this is the scenario , or as mentioned , you yourself may be getting settled in and being more consistent. Shoot more and have fun


 I was going to mention clean bore vs fouled bore. I only clean my rifle bores once a season for hunting rifles unless it is raining and I get the rifle wet. Always shoot a fouling shot after cleaning.

Range rifles are cleaned regularly and always shoot a fouling shot.


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## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

All good advice above.

TH


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Seems most all rifles shoot in a different spot with clean bore. I always shoot a couple of rounds before trying to group or hunt with a rifle. Jus sayin.


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## txbred (May 13, 2013)

Get a good dope book for your rifle and log the cold bore impact locations. Snipers shoot a cold bore shot daily and log the data. The reason is they usually only get a cold bore shot on target. Knowing where the cb shot impacts is vital to them. Your cb impacts could vary depending on atmospheric conditions, so the more data you have the better you can anticipate the location of your cb poi relative to your poa.


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

txbred said:


> Get a good dope book for your rifle and log the cold bore impact locations. Snipers shoot a cold bore shot daily and log the data. The reason is they usually only get a cold bore shot on target. Knowing where the cb shot impacts is vital to them. Your cb impacts could vary depending on atmospheric conditions, so the more data you have the better you can anticipate the location of your cb poi relative to your poa.


 IME, cold bore shots from a pre-fouled barrel vary to a very minimal degree. No doubt important and useful data for a military sniper shooting great distances for a one shot kill, but the OP stated that his first shot (we don't know if it was clean bore or fouled bore. We do know it was cold bore.) was over 2" from his follow up fouled bore pattern. IMO, two very different issues.

I would say that if the rifle shoots 2" cold and fouled bore variance from the follow up pattern, there is a very different and larger issue. Likely related to the barrel heating up and touching the stock causing the shots to spray.


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## txbred (May 13, 2013)

RB II said:


> IME, cold bore shots from a pre-fouled barrel vary to a very minimal degree. No doubt important and useful data for a military sniper shooting great distances for a one shot kill, but the OP stated that his first shot (we don't know if it was clean bore or fouled bore. We do know it was cold bore.) was over 2" from his follow up fouled bore pattern. IMO, two very different issues.
> 
> I would say that if the rifle shoots 2" cold and fouled bore variance from the follow up pattern, there is a very different and larger issue. Likely related to the barrel heating up and touching the stock causing the shots to spray.


i agree. My cb impacts tightened up relative to my poa after i changed to the AICS from the Hogue over-molded. About the same time i started weighing my brass and bullets for load testing. That could have helped me out some too.


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## 3footer (Apr 11, 2013)

Thanks for the responses. The cold bore shots were from a fouled bore. The barrel had 12 previous shots. The groups got better as the barrel warmed up.


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## daddyhoney (Dec 4, 2006)

Also some folks will think they are doing the barrel a favor by leaving a light coat of oil inside. That thin coat will throw the cold bore shot off as well.


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## UnclePoPo (Jun 4, 2013)

A lot of folks have addressed the cold bore shot but not the reload aspect which could be your problem. Are you getting the results of the cold bore shot with tested factory loads or untested hand loads? If untested hand loads you might have a load that your rifle does not like.

Where are you getting your load data? I ask this because you are at the upper end of max load for IMR-4064. I am currently using the Lyman 49th edition and it has suggested starting load for that powder at 32 grains. I would probably start over and worry more about getting my load worked up and then start working on the cold bore shot.

When I work a load I will usually start with 5 different loads using same casing, bullet, primers and powder. I will make 5 loads each starting at the starting charge which in your case is 32 grains. I will make a 32, 32.5, 33, 33.5, 34 and if need be I will go all the way to max load but I usually find my load in between there most of the time. I am no speed demon I am an accuracy guy.

When at the range I will foul my barrel and then start my load testing. I will shoot one of each load at 5 separate targets waiting between shots to let the barrel cool down. It depends on weather conditions how long I wait but it will be the same amount of time for each shot. I will keep shooting one shot each load through five strings until I am done. Just make sure you are shooting each grain into the proper target so you can see what each charge will do in your rifle.

Once I have found two good grouping patterns I will work from there. Say 32.5 and 33 grains showed really good results. I will then go in and make 32.6, 32.7 etc.. and shoot those in the same way. This will allow you to dial your rifle in for max performance out of your rifle then it is all on you.


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## 3footer (Apr 11, 2013)

UnclePoPo said:


> A lot of folks have addressed the cold bore shot but not the reload aspect which could be your problem. Are you getting the results of the cold bore shot with tested factory loads or untested hand loads? If untested hand loads you might have a load that your rifle does not like.
> 
> Where are you getting your load data? I ask this because you are at the upper end of max load for IMR-4064. I am currently using the Lyman 49th edition and it has suggested starting load for that powder at 32 grains. I would probably start over and worry more about getting my load worked up and then start working on the cold bore shot.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the advice. I think I will start over with my load. I got my load data from the Hornady 9th Edition reloading book. I also looked at the Hodgdon site for a recipe. As for the bullets I've been shooting, it has all been hand loads. The last factory loads I shot through it were 60gr Nolser Partition manufactured by Federal. They shot terrible. I think that bullet was too heavy for my rate of twist. The best factory load I found for it was the Federal 55gt hpbt (Sierra). They stopped making them a few years back and after I shot my last box of them, I started searching for a hand load. I started around the 35 grains of powder to try and match the velocity of the Federals my gun liked.

If you have any other ideas, please let me know. Thanks again.


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

I wonder if the load would cause 2" of delta between the first and say the last shots. IME, the rifle might not like the load but unless the bullet can't be stabilized (60 grains that shot badly) or maybe over pressure issues, the group should be much better than 2" with the same reload recipe. It might not be "THE" load for that rifle but should shoot a consistent group. Not 2" then down to 3 shots touching.


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## trout250 (Aug 24, 2005)

have you checked your barrel after it gets heated up,is it touching your stock?
I don't see how it could shoot a fler while cold and get better the more shots you shoot unless it has something to do with the stock. is the barrel free floated?
i have a ruger m77mk2 in 6.5 creedmoor and it will shoot a fler first round after cleaning then bunch them up, if i don't clean and next time i take it out it is still tight.

good luck


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## txbred (May 13, 2013)

trout250 said:


> have you checked your barrel after it gets heated up,is it touching your stock?
> I don't see how it could shoot a fler while cold and get better the more shots you shoot unless it has something to do with the stock. is the barrel free floated?
> i have a ruger m77mk2 in 6.5 creedmoor and it will shoot a fler first round after cleaning then bunch them up, if i don't clean and next time i take it out it is still tight.
> 
> good luck


i googled "fler". since you used it twice, i figured it wasn't a typo.

whats a fler?


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## Pocketfisherman (May 30, 2005)

Usually when there is a big difference between clean bore versus fouled, the issue is one of barrel break in. There could be tooling or chatter marks in the bore or throat affecting accuracy, that first need to be "filled in" by copper fouling from a few shots to deliver best accuracy. You fix that by barrel lapping, or fire lapping the bore....or just shoot/clean/repeat for 50-60 rounds, with a good copper fouling remover. 

The second possibility is the shooter. When you fire that first shot, are you feeding it from the magazine just as you would with subsequent shots? Just for grins, chamber the first shot from the magazine, then eject it unfired, feed another case from the magazine, and shoot that one and see if the accuracy is better on a fouled bore. Sometimes a full magazine feeds a bit differently.


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## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

> i googled "fler". since you used it twice, i figured it wasn't a typo.
> 
> whats a fler?


Pretty sure he means flier.

TH


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## Bigj (Jul 22, 2007)

I think id start out at Factory OAL on your reloads some chambers or guns don't like to have chamber crowded


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## Wado (May 15, 2011)

*Projectiles*

You mentioned working on a new load so here are a couple of choices you might try. I have been working a load for a new .223 Remington and these two are showing some impressive groups.

Nosler Custom Competition HPBT
52 grain P/N 53294
.28 each in boxes of 100

Berger FB Varmint
55 grain P/N 22311
.29 each in boxes of 100
I bought these at Big Boy's in Pearland and I noticed the boxes have the lot numbers printed on them also. These are pretty long pills but Berger says a 14 twist barrel will do it, I have a nine twist I am playing with.

As for powders, I have had good luck with H380 and Varget. I want to try a load with Ramshot Tac in my 22-250, my .223 shoots great with it. My 22-250 has a Shilen 14 twist barrel and I have stuck with 55 grain bullets but have yet to try the above mentioned bullets, I have a bunch of 55 grain V Max and 40 grain V Max Moly Coated loaded up. Lots of good advice going on here, got to get the barrel broke in first. I found a box of 22-250 shells I bought when i got mine.......... $10.97 for 55 grain Remington and $12.99 for 50 grain V Max. Been a while back.


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## txbred (May 13, 2013)

you also might think about not full length sizing your brass. Fire formed brass from your chamber is the best brass to hand load with. if you full length size it then it doesnt fit as snug in the chamber and you may get concentricity issues, causing inaccuracies. 

I usually full length size for auto loaders, but only neck size for a bolt gun. ymmv


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## trout250 (Aug 24, 2005)

maybe i need to learn to spell. or spell it flyer or flier, you know one that just shoots off anywhere from normal pattern.

thanks pocket


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## 3footer (Apr 11, 2013)

Thanks for the help guys. I've got some things to look into and try differently. I'll let you know how it works out


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## barbless (Jul 27, 2004)

Many years ago when I bought my 7 mag I had a similar problem. A friend and I glass bedded the barrel and that cured it.


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## batsandowls (Jul 31, 2010)

Honestly..... Your best guess is to keep trying new stuff. 

Action screws
Seating depth
Different bullet
Charge
Try bedding the recoil lug if nothing else...


Fliers ares caused by so many variables. Just start changing it up and basically go through the list... Just start over... It will work out, don't over think it.


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## Bottomsup (Jul 12, 2006)

Here are a couple of targets I shot with my custom built 22-250. Only difference for me is the first round from a clean bore will be about 1/4" low. When shooting for groups I always let the gun cool between shots. I dont care what it does from a warm or hot barrel. My gun does best with the bullet just touching the lands and cases neck sized although full length sizing doesnt seem to make much difference.


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## physhstyx (May 22, 2004)

So I have few questions, how old is the gun? typically 250s are barrel burners. What is the barrel taper? Is the action bedded? Is the barrel free floated, check cold and recheck after warm? Have you tried to shoot a cold bore then let the barrel cool and shoot another cold bore, repeat? In essence all 5 shots cold bore. if so how did that group? Its odd that the group moves but tightens up. mine would shoot about two close together then all over the place after the barrel warmed.
I also think you should try some premium ammo as well. This will eliminate any doubt about your hand loads. 
Try the HSM berger. 
BER-2225055MVFB 22-250 Remington 55 gr Match Target Flat Base.
hunting shack has these.


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