# What is the best TC-W3 2 stroke oil out there?



## JimD (May 25, 2004)

I have about one more trip before I have to find a local oil as good as the Tothatsu oil I use in the Tothatsu 90. I like it but it is hard to find and I want to go to one you can find about any where from Academy to Walmart.

Big Dave, Tran's main Mechanic liked Kawasaki or Yamaha brands in the 2 stroke out board oil TC-W3. 

They told me a lot of the oils will work well but the problem in mixing oils is the dyes in the oils can drop out of solution, gum up and clog the jets. So I need to drain the remaining Tothatsu from the oil tank before changing oils.

Noticed that Academy had Yamaha, Quicksilver, Pensoil, and another brand or two. 

What do you use? Is one really better than another?

Thanks,

Jim


----------



## TioJaime (Nov 10, 2005)

Here is a rather lengthy thread that might help. In spite of all the info, I prefer to use Yamalube. Some Yamaha dealers sell it bulk, you provide the container, for about $20.00 gal. http://2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/showthread.php?t=269023&highlight=cycle+oil


----------



## Captain Dave (Jul 19, 2006)

x2

If you search there will be lots of info and most of it is like fishing. Go with what you have confidence in. Some peeps use the lowest cost oil for years and no issues.

I go with what trusted mechanics advise.. They see the insides of the motor on a weekly basis and can be good for a reference as well.

I buy oil the engine manufacturers oil in bulk and have not looked back. The changing of different types of oil is true. Ask the mechanics on that as well.

http://www.sea-doo.net/techarticles/oil/oil.htm

Here are some stats that were offered... yam vs citgo



TioJaime said:


> Here is a rather lengthy thread that might help. In spite of all the info, I prefer to use Yamalube. Some Yamaha dealers sell it bulk, you provide the container, for about $20.00 gal. http://2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/showthread.php?t=269023&highlight=cycle+oil


----------



## TheSamarai (Jan 20, 2005)

I have no problems with using Citgo oil in my yamaha. Been doing it for years. Last I checked Citgo was an oil company compared with Yamaha. Really is a deal if you stock up when academy has it for sale.


----------



## JimD (May 25, 2004)

Report looks interesting. If we look at the #'s on the chart just what does this tell us being a poor old country boy? The number look close except for the Phos added?


Just how many people use the 10$/gallon vs the Yam/ at 20$/gallon?


----------



## pmgoffjr (Jul 30, 2009)

I use yamaha or merc plus for really one reason...
Did a bit of work with a dealer a few years ago in Tennessee, they had bulk everything there, and one very cold morning went to the oil shed... the yamaha and merc plus were the only two that weren't gelling in the cold. Pretty un-scientific and don't have charts, but do have eyeballs..and I saw enough.


----------



## phi471 (Feb 14, 2006)

Penzoil Marine Premium Plus TCW3. $27 for 2.5 gallons at Academy. 250 Yamaha Saltwater Series with over 600 hrs, never had an issue.


----------



## Captain Dave (Jul 19, 2006)

F Citgo..

In September, 1986, Southland sold a 50 percent interest in CITGO to Petr


----------



## JimD (May 25, 2004)

Time to change out from the old Tothatsu oil: 

Anything changed from this thread except for the price going up?

Yamalube
Quicksilver
Penziol
Citgo
penziol


----------



## CoastalOutfitters (Aug 20, 2004)

if you use penzoil shake it up , have seen it separate in the jug


----------



## Sow Trout (Jun 28, 2004)

Citgo is the Venezuelan oil company. I wouldn't use it at any price.


----------



## plasticsnaks (Sep 22, 2009)

Jim,I found the tohatsu oil on amazon for 25.30 @ gallon shipped to your door..it comes in a 12qt case.I'm not sure if I'm gonna go this route or change to something that I can get locally, ie pennzoil or the merc/quicksilver premium plus.A lot easier to buy locally fo sure!The pennzoil is reccomended by tohatsu but not the merc/quick pp.The merc DFI optimax oil is reccomended but is very expensive.Although I hear a lot of people with optimax motors run the merc/quicksilver premium plus without any problems. Anyhow here is the amazon link for the tohat oil. http://www.amazon.com/Tohatsu-Outbo...e=UTF8&s=sporting-goods&qid=1297703519&sr=8-5


----------



## Sow Trout (Jun 28, 2004)

Citgo is the Venezuelan oil company. I wouldn't use it at any price.


TheSamarai said:


> I have no problems with using Citgo oil in my yamaha. Been doing it for years. Last I checked Citgo was an oil company compared with Yamaha. Really is a deal if you stock up when academy has it for sale.


----------



## out_fishin69 (Jun 17, 2008)

Sow Trout said:


> Citgo is the Venezuelan oil company. I wouldn't use it at any price.


Venezuelan owend but operated in the US by US citizens.... At least buy our gas so I don't loose my job!

FYI - I'm not a fan of Chavez either


----------



## wellubed1 (Aug 27, 2009)

AMSOIL Synthetic hp Injector Oil hands down. Less than $25 per gallon wholesale plus shipping & tax to your door step. Contact me for details.

www.highperformancesynthetics.com
Toll Free 1-866-443-9079


----------



## BAMF32 (Feb 12, 2005)

*Penzoil*



phi471 said:


> Penzoil Marine Premium Plus TCW3. $27 for 2.5 gallons at Academy. 250 Yamaha Saltwater Series with over 600 hrs, never had an issue.


No expert but I ran this stuff from Academy for 8 years in a Yamaha 150 and NEVER had a problem with that motor. I liked that you could buy the 2.5 gallon jug. Cheap and figure with a name like Penzoil you can't go wrong.


----------



## out_fishin69 (Jun 17, 2008)

FYI I found some articles online that confirmed CITGO does indeed manufacture and bottle oil for yamaha USA.....

Scary!!!


----------



## BullyARed (Jun 19, 2010)

pz316wa said:


> x2 on the penzoil


X3 on Penzoil. Has done good on my Suzuki outboard for dozen years. Best thing is Academy often has them on sale.


----------



## bluewing (Mar 19, 2010)

Penzoil for Academy. Going on 450hrs. 250 yamaha HPDI


----------



## kenny (May 21, 2004)

Yamalube is WAY over priced. IMO 
I doubt you'll find it for $20. gal either, even in bulk.
I use West Marine and buy it when it's on sale. I do put techron or other similar additives in sometimes...


----------



## RedXCross (Aug 7, 2005)

Royal Purple for me.


----------



## jjtroutkiller (Jan 28, 2005)

I have run Penzoil in the past several boats without any problems and it can be found just about anywhere.


----------



## Captain Dave (Jul 19, 2006)

Yam Oil for me. I tried Penziol and gave it away after I heard from a Yam Mechanic not to mix. Been buying it bulk for 18.99 a Gal.

Wonder what the extra ingredients that are specked out in Yam Oils ?


----------



## out_fishin69 (Jun 17, 2008)

Captain Dave said:


> Yam Oil for me. I tried Penziol and gave it away after I heard from a Yam Mechanic not to mix. Been buying it bulk for 18.99 a Gal.
> 
> Wonder what the extra ingredients that are specked out in Yam Oils ?


X2.... I cannot find what is exactly in their blend. Citgo has a detailed blend list on the website. The flash point is relatively low when compared to other oils. That means it will burn at a lower temp....

IMO as long as you are buying a oil from a reputable source it shouldn't matter if it is yama, quick, pen, citgo, or whatever. Just don't buy the 1 gallon jug for 5 bucks from the dollar store.

Does anyone know if yamaha VOIDS warranty repair if you don't use their earl?


----------



## Captain Dave (Jul 19, 2006)

Sonnysmarine would be a good resource for this thread


----------



## seahorse5 (May 27, 2007)

out_fishin69 said:


> Does anyone know if yamaha VOIDS warranty repair if you don't use their earl?


Read the owners manual, 2 stroke manufacturers say if you do not use their own brand of oils, then to use one that is certified TC-W3. As long as the oil you are using is listed and approved by the National Marine Manufacturer's Association (NMMA), no warranties are voided for lubrication failures.


----------



## JimD (May 25, 2004)

Here is what the Tohatsu web site had on it. Not exactly what I would have thought.



TLDI outboards should only be run using TCW3 oil specifically formulated for use in Direct Injection motors. Standard TCW3 oil is not recommended for use in TLDI outboards. The following oils have been tested by our factory and certified for use in TLDI motors:


 Tohatsu Premium Oil 
 Nissan Marine Premium Oil 
 Pennzoil Complete Marine Synthetic 
 Pennzoil Semi-Synthetic Outboard Oil 
 Mercury Optimax/DFI Oil 
 Yamaha Yamalube 2-M Semi-Synthetic Injector Oil 
 Bombardier RAM Ficht Oil 
 The above oil brands are currently the only brands that have been tested and approved by our factory for use in TLDI systems. Brand name


----------



## wellubed1 (Aug 27, 2009)

You asked for the *best oil*. It is AMSOIL 2 Cycle Synthetic HP Injector Oil. Field testing is complete that shows this is the only oil besides XD 100 that can safely lubricate and provide equal protection and performance as XD 100 when the Etec engine ECU is reflashed for the *lean burn ratio* that the etec engine is capable of. Not Citgo, not Royal Purple, not Yamalube, not Quick Silver, not Penzoil-- should I continue with the list. See my previous post above on this topic for pricing.

www.highperformancesynthetics.com


----------



## gater (May 25, 2004)

*JimD*



JimD said:


> I have about one more trip before I have to find a local oil as good as the Tothatsu oil I use in the Tothatsu 90. I like it but it is hard to find and I want to go to one you can find about any where from Academy to Walmart.
> 
> Big Dave, Tran's main Mechanic liked Kawasaki or Yamaha brands in the 2 stroke out board oil TC-W3.
> 
> ...


I have run Walmart Super Tech oil ($10.00 gallon) in my new Yamaha motor since it was bolted on the boat. I have been using it for about 7 years and have friends that have been using for just as long with no issues.

I will not pay $30.00 for a gallon of oil!

Gater


----------



## Muddskipper (Dec 29, 2004)

Buy the Johnson Evinrude 2 stroke oil in bulk - I believe they call it a XD30 over the XD25 you find in Academy ....

We have ran it through numerous Yammi's for years with no issues


----------



## JimD (May 25, 2004)

*list of TC-W3 oils and owners*

http://www.nmma.org/certification/certification/oil/tc-w3.aspx

On this page are the spec's for TC-W3 oils and at the bottom a pdf list of exactly who 
is the registered owner of many of the "other" brand names that different cmpanies have their oils sold under.


----------



## wellubed1 (Aug 27, 2009)

Registration of NMMA is a revenue source like the API for motor oil. What you need to understand is that to have your oil registered is that you have shown that your oil as a mfg has met the low minimum standards and you as an oil company have paid the NMMA a ton of money each year. Whereas some oil companies are not willing to pay that ton of money when they know that the oil they produce vastly exceeds these minimum standards. These mfg's will state that their oil meets and or exceeds NMMA specification. One oil company I am familiar with would register their oil when the NMMA raises the bar to a high performance standard in the way that this mfg blends and formulates its products. NMMA is looking for ways to generate thousands of dollars-old trick used by the API and NMMA.


----------



## JimD (May 25, 2004)

*thought this was interesting to see who made Walmart out board oil*

Pennzoil Outdoor Multipurpose Shell Oil Products US
Pennzoil Marine Premium Plus Shell Oil Products 
Pennzoil Marine XLF Shell Oil Products 
Shell Nautilus Outboard Shell Oil Products US

*Wal Mart Super Tech Outboard Shell Oil Products US

*Wonder if it is the same same mixture for a lot less cost??

http://www.nmma.org/assets/cabinets/Cabinet456/TC-W3-2010-Jan18-2011.xls is a list of who owns that brand of oil sold.


----------



## JimD (May 25, 2004)

Interesting how things change in a year. Here is the new listing from the Tothatsu Texas web site and below it is the Chart from almost a year ago.

Has anyone bought oil online by the case? There is a place on line that ships Tothatsu for $62 a case plus shipping.

I am guessing it is the same oil that I bought from Donny last year. (Tothatsu 2-stroke outboard oil TCW-3 (for all direct injection engines)) Which is not listed either year as the approved certified tested oil.

I am guessing this is the original oil before the push to semi and full synthetic oils.

Has anyone noticed any difference is the old oil vs synthetic and semi synthetic other than the push to synthetics other that Tothatsu had a oil company start making the new products for them?

TLDI outboards should only be run using TCW3 oil specifically formulated for use in Direct Injection motors. Standard TCW3 oil is not recommended for use in TLDI outboards. The following oils have been tested by our factory and certified for use in TLDI motors:


  Tohatsu Complete Advantage 100% Synthetic Oil
  Tohatsu Premium TCW3 Semi-Synthetic Oil
  Nissan Marine Complete Advantage 100% Synthetic Oil
  Nissan Marine Premium TCW3 Semi-Synthetic Oil
  Pennzoil 100% Marine Synthetic
  Pennzoil Semi-Synthetic Outboard Oil
  Mercury Optimax/DFI Oil
  Yamaha Yamalube 2-M Semi-Synthetic Injector Oil
  Bombardier XD-50 Semi-Synthetic Oil
  Bombardier XD-100 Full-Synthetic Oil
Here is the chart from almost a year ago?

TLDI outboards should only be run using TCW3 oil specifically formulated for use in Direct Injection motors. Standard TCW3 oil is not recommended for use in TLDI outboards. The following oils have been tested by our factory and certified for use in TLDI motors:


 Tohatsu Premium Oil
 Nissan Marine Premium Oil
 Pennzoil Complete Marine Synthetic
 Pennzoil Semi-Synthetic Outboard Oil
 Mercury Optimax/DFI Oil
 Yamaha Yamalube 2-M Semi-Synthetic Injector Oil
 Bombardier RAM Ficht Oil
 The above oil brands are currently the only brands that have been tested and approved by our factory for use in TLDI systems. Brand name


----------



## Sonnysmarine (Mar 18, 2007)

out_fishin69 said:


> FYI I found some articles online that confirmed CITGO does indeed manufacture and bottle oil for yamaha USA.....
> 
> Scary!!!


Sorry this is incorrect.
All my Yamaha oil , and lube , Products come from Spectrum oil , blended to Yamaha Specs, If i have a problem with damage i Call Spectrum or did not recieve a product I call them after filling a report with Yamaha in Ga. shipping dept. But the products are shipped from Spectrum


----------



## cpthook (Jan 16, 2008)

out_fishin69 said:


> FYI I found some articles online that confirmed CITGO does indeed manufacture and bottle oil for yamaha USA.....
> 
> Scary!!!


I've been using Citgo for about 30 years now with no probems. I got 14 years out of my 91' Evinrude 150 and now on my 5th year with my Evinrude E-Tec 175. It's all bought in bulk, the companies go out with an RFP and cheapest bid gets the buy, color and name are then put on the product. It's all the same, TC-W3 is TC-W3 and a manufacturer can not void a warranty if it meets TC-W3 requirements. That's it in a nut shell. This is about my 5th or 6th motor now, again no problems. I've always been an Evinrude owner it's the only way to go for me, but I'm a believer in 2-strokes as well, lighter and more hole shot for wading shallow water.


----------



## BullyARed (Jun 19, 2010)

cpthook said:


> I've been using Citgo for about 30 years now with no probems. I got 14 years out of my 91' Evinrude 150 and now on my 5th year with my Evinrude E-Tec 175. It's all bought in bulk, the companies go out with an RFP and cheapest bid gets the buy, color and name are then put on the product. It's all the same, TC-W3 is TC-W3 and a manufacturer can not void a warranty if it meets TC-W3 requirements. That's it in a nut shell. This is about my 5th or 6th motor now, again no problems. I've always been an Evinrude owner it's the only way to go for me, but I'm a believer in 2-strokes as well, lighter and more hole shot for wading shallow water.


2X. A TC-W3 is a TC-W3. Manufacturers just use this excuse to narrow or avoid their warranty. I have a 1989 Suzuki 2-stroke on my bass boat and it is still running like a champ with all kinds of TC-W3 that were on sale and I have put in.


----------

