# home defense



## roundman (May 21, 2004)

there was a thread awhile back on this and i cant dig it up nowhere, it was about the mossberg 500 i think, i even comment i wanted one, got some extra money now, academy here has a pistol grip one but really dont think i want that one. since home defense i think a 20 gauge would be ok too, anyone know where the best deal is and has one in stock? pm me, guy here at academy said 2 people were looking for one there this week already, found a mossberg Persuader , anyone know if its a good un?


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## let's talk fishin (Jan 4, 2008)

look up RACER on here he has a gun shop and sale guns at a good PRICE.


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## therealbigman (Jul 14, 2010)

I don't know what these cost or what your budget is , but dang, look at this nice equalizer.


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## Navi (Jun 2, 2009)

I have the mossberg "JIC tactical" which if im not mistaken is a mossberg 500 in a carrying case with a higher price tag. Its my primary home defense weapon, I too thought about a 20 gauge. When it came down to it id rather have the 12 for resale later on.

Its loaded with some Remington HD home defense rounds, again probably nothing more than some marked up normal shells. I like the moss pretty well, its comfortable to shoot, has nowhere near the kick i expected off a pistol grip and is easy to maneuver with. 


I have never shot or owner the persuder, but many other mossbergs ( and Remington ) and feel they make a decent gun for the money. Are there better ones out there? maybe but doubtfully in their price range.

If you are local id better glad to meet up with ya and let send some shells thru it to see how it feels for ya.


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## roundman (May 21, 2004)

saw this today while looking round, lol


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## jamisjockey (Jul 30, 2009)

I will be doing my damndest to be one of the first in line for a Kel Tec KSG. They ain't out yet, though.

Mossberg Persauder is a great all around home defense shot gun. Get it, don't look back.

Make sure and take it to the range. Too many people think a shotgun is some kind of pray and spray weapon, which it is not. At home defense distances, buckshot barely spreads at all. The sheer overwhelming power of being hit with 9 .38 caliber pellets at the FPS and Energy delievered by a shotgun is the advantage. All those wound channels gives you the possiblity of doing the most damage. 
And we won't even talk about what slugs do at close range.....
Plus, having a long sight radius, and a two handed shotgun stance gives you the best chance to not miss. 
Think about adding a light for positive target identification.


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## CoastalOutfitters (Aug 20, 2004)

if you are going to get a shotgun strictly for home defense, just buy a regular one and get a shop to cut the barrel off to 18 1/2" with a band saw, i have done several , they cut easily. 
remmy 870 or moss or similar

grips avail from several sources

take the plug out, load w buckshot 

take to field, then go step off various distances and shoot a paper plate to get an idea what is going on w patterns, choke pattern is not really an issue in the house < 30', you are aiming for center chest anyway.

make the first one count ,esp in the dark


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## fishnvet (Mar 6, 2005)

Dang, that KelTec looks nice. I'll have to look at it when it hits the shops.

I have a Remington 870 defense model. I liked the Mossberg, but we all dove hunt with 870 pumps, and I wanted to be able to know if I or other family picked up the 870 in the dark, they were already really familiar with the action of the shotgun without having to fiddle with it. It has a streamlight and a side saddle for extra rounds. It's not a pistol grip; like said above I wanted it to feel familiar. I know the Mossberg would work great as well. Isn't that what the Army uses?


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## 69RRVERT (Sep 21, 2006)

Take a look at the 20ga. Mossberg 510 Mini Super Bantam. They are $269.00 @ Academy. I bought one for my son (9) due to the extra short stock so he can learn to shoot. It has a 18.5" barrel and a coupon for 1/2 off regular price for a full size stock. Thanks, Steven


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## monkeyman1 (Dec 30, 2007)

Look into coach guns. Besides various pistols, I keep one of these handy.


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## jamisjockey (Jul 30, 2009)

69RRVERT said:


> Take a look at the 20ga. Mossberg 510 Mini Super Bantam. They are $269.00 @ Academy. I bought one for my son (9) due to the extra short stock so he can learn to shoot. It has a 18.5" barrel and a coupon for 1/2 off regular price for a full size stock. Thanks, Steven


Ain't nothin wrong with the youth stock for home defense. Keeps the LOP and OAL short, which makes maneuvering easier.



> Look into coach guns. Besides various pistols, I keep one of these handy.


A good pump can usually be had for less than most coach guns go for anymore. Plus, a coach gun is 2 shots. Better than harsh words, but if you have more than two attackers, or you miss, you'll wish you had bought a pump.....


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## Danny O (Apr 14, 2010)

I've always wanted to buy "The Judge", which is a revolver that holds 45 caliber and 410 shotgun shells. I think it holds 5, so you can put any combination of 45/410. Also, it is probably a decent firearm to have on the ranch for snakes.

Edit: added pic


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## Capt Scott Reeh (Jan 21, 2006)

If ya gonna use a shotgun for home defense, IMHO, you need some form of training.A shotgun can be grabbed and taken away by the perp easier than a pistol can.A shotgun is also harder to handle in tight quarters.With that being said....whatever you use, be sure and have a good light for positive target identification.


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## jamisjockey (Jul 30, 2009)

Danny O said:


> I've always wanted to buy "The Judge", which is a revolver that holds 45 caliber and 410 shotgun shells. I think it holds 5, so you can put any combination of 45/410. Also, it is probably a decent firearm to have on the ranch for snakes.
> 
> Edit: added pic


Box'o'truth spent some time with the judge. Their determination? 
As a shotgun, it sucks. .410 self defense rounds are anemic.
As a handgun, it sucks. .45lc is anemic, and inaccurate from this platform.
Its mostly a gimmick gun.
I do agree it would make a great snake and ranch gun though.


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## txranger (Jun 23, 2005)

Capt Scott Reeh said:


> If ya gonna use a shotgun for home defense, IMHO, you need some form of training.A shotgun can be grabbed and taken away by the perp easier than a pistol can.A shotgun is also harder to handle in tight quarters.With that being said....whatever you use, be sure and have a good light for positive target identification.


 I agree. I've posted this before in more detail, but imo a semiauto handgun is best for interior home defense.


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## Blue Water Breaux (Feb 6, 2008)

jamisjockey said:


> Box'o'truth spent some time with the judge. Their determination?
> As a shotgun, it sucks. .410 self defense rounds are anemic.
> As a handgun, it sucks. .45lc is anemic, and inaccurate from this platform.
> Its mostly a gimmick gun.
> I do agree it would make a great snake and ranch gun though.


I dont mind mine...i load rabbit shot and 45 long colt in mine and prefer to use it on my side when im walking in the woods with cats and large hogs.

Not to mention, it's a great conversation piece


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## Dutch Treat (May 21, 2004)

Take a look at the Remington Marine Magnum. It is an 870 pump with 18" barrel and 6 round tube. (3"mags) Synthetic stock and a sling are standard. 

I bought one about a year ago and I like it. I keep it loaded with #4bk. Hopefully I will never need it.


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## roundman (May 21, 2004)

69RRVERT said:


> Take a look at the 20ga. Mossberg 510 Mini Super Bantam. They are $269.00 @ Academy. I bought one for my son (9) due to the extra short stock so he can learn to shoot. It has a 18.5" barrel and a coupon for 1/2 off regular price for a full size stock. Thanks, Steven


 where you get coupon? i looked at it and guy didnt know anything about a coupon


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## Capt Scott Reeh (Jan 21, 2006)

txranger said:


> I agree. I've posted this before in more detail, but imo a semiauto handgun is best for interior home defense.


Roger That ! But for most people that don't train w/ there self defense weapon and ARE NOT avid shooters,...I still believe a good revolver ( 357, 45acp or 44 Special ) and tactical light are all that one should need.For me...I'll take my Glock 22 and Streamlite


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## REELING 65 (Aug 18, 2009)

Get Off My Lawn!


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## Capt Scott Reeh (Jan 21, 2006)

REELING 65 said:


> Get Off My Lawn!


Joe Horn......is that you ?....LOL


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## REELING 65 (Aug 18, 2009)

We need National Joe Horn Day.


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## bowfishrp (Apr 5, 2007)

I too like the look of the judge but for the price, you can get an automatic .45 that will hold twice as many rounds as a judge. If they cut their price in half I would buy one.

LOVE that Keltec KSG....wonder what the price will be?!?


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## Team Binnion (Jun 3, 2004)

*Doberman*

I have many guns at my house, all kinds, problem is they still broke in when I was away, now I have this Defense. He lets me know when someone even walks down the street past my house and he is a fully trained pertection dog.


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## REELING 65 (Aug 18, 2009)

A pump w/0/0..sufficient to say the least. If you miss with one,well then you are a poor shot...lol.


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## therealbigman (Jul 14, 2010)

bowfishrp said:


> I too like the look of the judge but for the price, you can get an automatic .45 that will hold twice as many rounds as a judge. If they cut their price in half I would buy one.
> 
> LOVE that Keltec KSG....wonder what the price will be?!?





therealbigman said:


> I don't know what these cost or what your budget is , but dang, look at this nice equalizer.


Kel Tec is saying about 800.00 on this 1, here's the linky.

http://slickguns.com/product/kel-tec-unveils-new-ksg-dual-tube-pump-shotgun-0


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## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

A dog, ANY dog, is the best form of home protection.... deterring a thief is the best way to keep your belongings safe.... Unfortunately, dogs are high maintance and will require lots of attention and $$$...

My second weapon of choice would be a basic 20 gauge youth model pump shotgun. Remember, pistol and rifle rounds will travel easier through walls, thus endangering the lives of family members who may be in the adjoining rooms.


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## LongTallTexan (May 19, 2009)

jamisjockey said:


> A good pump can usually be had for less than most coach guns go for anymore. Plus, a coach gun is 2 shots. Better than harsh words, but if you have more than two attackers, or you miss, you'll wish you had bought a pump.....


The best reason to have a pump gun is the noise racking a shell makes. I doubt many folks will stick around after hearing that.


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## Team Binnion (Jun 3, 2004)

*correct*



justinsfa said:


> A dog, ANY dog, is the best form of home protection.... deterring a thief is the best way to keep your belongings safe.... Unfortunately, dogs are high maintance and will require lots of attention and $$$...
> 
> Yes they are, but by the time I paid my deductable from the break in and the thought of knowing some low life that will not get a job is not stealing all my stuff when I am at work is worth it all.


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## txranger (Jun 23, 2005)

LongTallTexan said:


> The best reason to have a pump gun is the noise racking a shell makes. I doubt many folks will stick around after hearing that.


 Or you have just informed the intruder your location in the house and what weapon you have. Meanwhile, you have no idea how many intruders are in your house, where they are, or what they are carrying. It's all a matter of perspective I guess...


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## Capt Scott Reeh (Jan 21, 2006)

txranger said:


> Or you have just informed the intruder your location in the house and what weapon you have. Meanwhile, you have no idea how many intruders are in your house, where they are, or what they are carrying. It's all a matter of perspective I guess...


Kinda what I was thinking. Oops..there went the element of surprise by racking the slide, that should not have needed to be racked.Should have been in Condition 1 to start with.For those that don't know what that is, do some reaserch.


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## iridered2003 (Dec 12, 2005)

69RRVERT said:


> Take a look at the 20ga. Mossberg 510 Mini Super Bantam. They are $269.00 @ Academy. I bought one for my son (9) due to the extra short stock so he can learn to shoot. It has a 18.5" barrel and a coupon for 1/2 off regular price for a full size stock. Thanks, Steven


can you post up a pic next to another shotgun for us as to have something to compare it with please


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## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

Team Binnion said:


> justinsfa said:
> 
> 
> > A dog, ANY dog, is the best form of home protection.... deterring a thief is the best way to keep your belongings safe.... Unfortunately, dogs are high maintance and will require lots of attention and $$$...
> ...


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## iridered2003 (Dec 12, 2005)

justinsfa said:


> Team Binnion said:
> 
> 
> > Oh, I totally agree... I have a multifunctional home defense device.....
> ...


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## 69RRVERT (Sep 21, 2006)

roundman said:


> where you get coupon? i looked at it and guy didnt know anything about a coupon


The coupon is inside the box and it is for a full size stock from Mossberg when the kids out grow the 10.5" stock. It is NOT a coupon for 1/2 off the price of the gun. I checked my original post, and it clearly states 1/2 off new stock. I have alreadyhad one PM asking the same question. Thanks, Steven


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## 69RRVERT (Sep 21, 2006)

iridered2003 said:


> can you post up a pic next to another shotgun for us as to have something to compare it with please


Here is a pic of my son. He is 9. The gun has a 10.5" stock and 18.5" barrel. I am not sure but Ithink the overall length is around 40" (+/- " or 2). Thanks, Steven

Mossberg 510 Mini Super Bantam (20ga.): 









Mossberg 500 Youth Super Bantam (20ga.)


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## iridered2003 (Dec 12, 2005)

69,thanks. irr like.


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## justinsfa (Mar 28, 2009)

iridered2003 said:


> justinsfa said:
> 
> 
> > you could quit being so cheap and buy here a ring too?
> ...


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## iridered2003 (Dec 12, 2005)

just messin there. i aint worried, as she may be mad at you but not me


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## jamisjockey (Jul 30, 2009)

LongTallTexan said:


> The best reason to have a pump gun is the noise racking a shell makes. I doubt many folks will stick around after hearing that.


Which will also give away your position. If I have to rack the slide, it sure as hell ain't to warn them....as a matter of fact, I'll do it as softly as I can get away with. I want the last thing the bad guy hears to be the hammer striking the primer.


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## jamisjockey (Jul 30, 2009)

bowfishrp said:


> I too like the look of the judge but for the price, you can get an automatic .45 that will hold twice as many rounds as a judge. If they cut their price in half I would buy one.
> 
> LOVE that Keltec KSG....wonder what the price will be?!?


Long answer to a short question:
There was a thread on KTOG.org that went away....one of the Keltec reps said it would be _about_ half of the MSRP as the .308 carbine. Which ends up being about $600 MSRP. However, Kel tec hasn't done a good job of producing enough RFP's to meet the demand, and they have been going for about a 25% markup. Unless they get their production up to meet demand, I bet the KSG will be about $800, with a waiting list to find one.


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## KillaHookset (Jan 6, 2005)

If you go the shotgun route be sure to keep this information in mind that your pattern at 30 feet will be between 4-8" so you will need to aim not spray and pray as mentioned earlier. Barrel length and Choke seem to not have much if any impact on buckshot. Go out and pattern your own weapon and selected ammo you may be very surprised. 

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot44.htm

The Judge...well I don't want to be shot by a paintball gun nor a .22 cal but if you have a bad guy in your home who is armed you have better choices in weapons than a Judge unless loaded with straight 45LC

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm


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## roundman (May 21, 2004)

id like to get a shotgun and pistol, so for affordability, im going with a mossberg home defense or maybe a remington 870 for the price and a pistol too, looking at a 380, or 9 mm, maybe a sig, any thoughts on a nice semi pistola?


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## therealbigman (Jul 14, 2010)

roundman said:


> id like to get a shotgun and pistol, so for affordability, im going with a mossberg home defense or maybe a remington 870 for the price and a pistol too, looking at a 380, or 9 mm, maybe a sig, any thoughts on a nice semi pistola?


How about this .380 my choice.


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## jamisjockey (Jul 30, 2009)

roundman said:


> id like to get a shotgun and pistol, so for affordability, im going with a mossberg home defense or maybe a remington 870 for the price and a pistol too, looking at a 380, or 9 mm, maybe a sig, any thoughts on a nice semi pistola?


Depends on what you're using the pistol for. And depends on your budget.

What are you looking to spend after you get the shotgun?


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## iridered2003 (Dec 12, 2005)

therealbigman said:


> How about this .380 my choice.


i would throw that junk in the trash and tell IRR where its at.:mpd:


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## REELING 65 (Aug 18, 2009)

Deter crime...0/0 Buckshot.


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## deke (Oct 5, 2004)

To save money, or if you are on a tight budget. Find an older used Moss 500 or Rem 870 Express, and have the barrel cut or cut it yourself. Less than $200 and you have a great HD gun. I think you can get a Mossberg Maverick pump for like $150 new. Just cut it down.

That KelTec looks great. But $800 kind of takes it out of what KelTec trys to be, marjet wise. Theat is nolonger an affordable gun. i would think $500 max for that gun. Once the new gun hype wears off. Also take a look at the KelTec .22 mag auto. This has some serious capacity, and a .22 mag is a deadly round. .22's like to bounce all over once inside. I want one.







69RRVERT said:


> Take a look at the 20ga. Mossberg 510 Mini Super Bantam. They are $269.00 @ Academy. I bought one for my son (9) due to the extra short stock so he can learn to shoot. It has a 18.5" barrel and a coupon for 1/2 off regular price for a full size stock. Thanks, Steven





Capt Scott Reeh said:


> If ya gonna use a shotgun for home defense, IMHO, you need some form of training.A shotgun can be grabbed and taken away by the perp easier than a pistol can.A shotgun is also harder to handle in tight quarters.With that being said....whatever you use, be sure and have a good light for positive target identification.


Great choice.



jamisjockey said:


> Box'o'truth spent some time with the judge. Their determination?
> As a shotgun, it sucks. .410 self defense rounds are anemic.
> As a handgun, it sucks. .45lc is anemic, and inaccurate from this platform.
> Its mostly a gimmick gun.
> I do agree it would make a great snake and ranch gun though.


True. But I don't think they have tested the new loads developed for the Judge. The Winchester PDX-1 .410 loads look like a good idea. Here is the youtube page for some vids on the ammo. http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=winchester+pdx1+.410&aq=3

And Federal has some new buckshot loads that are higher muzzle velocity, made for the Judge, they are like 1200 fps? I think at close range the Judge is adequate, the best choice, no. But as a truck gun, or a vehicle gun for a female I think it has it's place.



LongTallTexan said:


> The best reason to have a pump gun is the noise racking a shell makes. I doubt many folks will stick around after hearing that.


Bad idea, as others mentioned. A HD gun should ALWAYS be loaded and ready to fire.


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## chubri777 (Aug 11, 2005)

Nothing says "home defense shotgun" like an AA-12


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## cody p (Aug 25, 2010)

870 12 gauge with #6 dove load the last round is a 3 1/2" T.


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## jamisjockey (Jul 30, 2009)

Expecting a home invasion from doves? I love the birdshot myth for home defense.


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## jamisjockey (Jul 30, 2009)

chubri777 said:


> Nothing says "home defense shotgun" like an AA-12


I wish! But us peon civilians could never be trusted with such firepower, now, could we?


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## roundman (May 21, 2004)

well, being in the salt air area, i think i may go with the mossberg 500 mariner with pistol grip . saw some semi autos, berettas and glocks 9mm , any thought between these 2 , i like the looks of the beretta(px4 storm)or maybe a sig sauer 9mm and they had s&w sigma a lot cheaper


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## yer_corks_under (Mar 23, 2007)

Went and got myself a Red Ryder $20 a few minutes ago, sale at Academy ends today. Grandkids need to learn to shoot.


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## roundman (May 21, 2004)

yer_corks_under said:


> Went and got myself a Red Ryder $20 a few minutes ago, sale at Academy ends today. Grandkids need to learn to shoot.


teach them and start em early, have fun :work:


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## grandpa cracker (Apr 7, 2006)

jamisjockey said:


> Expecting a home invasion from doves? I love the birdshot myth for home defense.


 He`ll shoot his eye out if he does`nt get pecked to death first.


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## BACLIFF BERT (Nov 29, 2006)

My experience with the Mossburgs is not good. About 10 years ago with a 12g and 20 years back with a .410, both shot guns would occasionaly miss fire and that is totaly unacceptable for any gun pressed into self defense service. Both weapons where model 500e's.
I can't speak for the persuader or maybe quality control has gotton better.
I now use a Winchester Defender with a full stock for this purpose.
Here is a little word of wisdom...If you think the pistol grips look cool think again because if you are not trained in combat or have poor SA a pistol grip can easily be leveraged away and used against you.


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## troutomatic1488 (Jun 18, 2006)

jamisjockey said:


> Expecting a home invasion from doves? I love the birdshot myth for home defense.


 I have seen with my own eyes what a 12 gauge with 7 1/2 shot at 10 feet will do to the human body and it is no myth.


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## donf (Aug 8, 2005)

I don't believe you could find a terminal ballistics expert that would tell you that a 12 ga shotgun with 00 buck is not the most devastating home defense weapon available. As posted before, 9 .38 caliber projectiles in one package is as good as it gets.
I have a mossy 500. Pistol grip, 00 buck, close at hand when the lights go off.
Ps. Put a little surefire on/off light / laser thing on it too.


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## jamisjockey (Jul 30, 2009)

roundman said:


> well, being in the salt air area, i think i may go with the mossberg 500 mariner with pistol grip . saw some semi autos, berettas and glocks 9mm , any thought between these 2 , i like the looks of the beretta(px4 storm)or maybe a sig sauer 9mm and they had s&w sigma a lot cheaper


My only suggestion is that you go with a stock on the rifle. The advantage is getting a real solid stance with a shotgun and aiming down the sighs.
Berettas and Sigs are real fine pistols. The sigma is a decent gun, not known for having a very good trigger, but it will get the job done. 
IMHO, you couldn't do any better than a Glock, even if its used.


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## rambunctious (May 30, 2004)

*Home Defense*

I have 2- Remington 870s in 20"w/stock. I bought my ammo from deltaforce.com In one I have 3-Rhodesan jungle shells and in the other 3-Parahna shells for the bedroom other is in livingroom. Tried both shells on plywood and would not want to be shot with either one. They are a little expensive but what is your life worth?????????
Terry


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## iridered2003 (Dec 12, 2005)

rambunctious said:


> I have 2- Remington 870s in 20"w/stock. I bought my ammo from deltaforce.com In one I have 3-Rhodesan jungle shells and in the other 3-Parahna shells for the bedroom other is in livingroom. Tried both shells on plywood and would not want to be shot with either one. They are a little expensive but what is your life worth?????????
> Terry


lets see the plywood test patt?


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## T_Sebastian (May 12, 2010)

*just finished mine*

Mossberg with NHT 260 lumen lighting system and heat-shielded barrel. Loaded with 2-3/4 00 buck (6 rounds)


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## jamisjockey (Jul 30, 2009)

Nice shotgun!


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## w_r_ranch (Jan 14, 2005)

roundman said:


> there was a thread awhile back on this and i cant dig it up nowhere, it was about the mossberg 500 i think, i even comment i wanted one, got some extra money now, academy here has a pistol grip one but really dont think i want that one. since home defense i think a 20 gauge would be ok too, anyone know where the best deal is and has one in stock? pm me, guy here at academy said 2 people were looking for one there this week already, found a mossberg Persuader , anyone know if its a good un?


Here you go roundman...

http://2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/showpost.php?p=3067687&postcount=7


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## Capt Scott Reeh (Jan 21, 2006)

roundman said:


> well, being in the salt air area, i think i may go with the mossberg 500 mariner with pistol grip . saw some semi autos, berettas and glocks 9mm , any thought between these 2 , i like the looks of the beretta(px4 storm)or maybe a sig sauer 9mm and they had s&w sigma a lot cheaper


IMO....looks don't mean a darn thing in firearm that your stakeing your life on ! All I'm gonna say is IMO, a Glock is like a revolver.....point it, pull the trigger and watch it go boom every time.Yes, their are prettier and more expensive pistols out there but the Glock is time proven.Oh....I have a Glock 36 that I carry and keep under the seat of my truck year round......not one spec of rust.I've gone through a few cheap " truck guns " that just won't hold up to the humidity we have here.My .02 cents.


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## roundman (May 21, 2004)

ended up buying the 
*REMINGTON 870 EXPRESS HOME DEFENSE SHOTGUN with some buckshot 12 pellet shells maybe pick up another grip for it too*


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## fishtails75 (Jul 27, 2008)

*great gun roundman!!!*

I have shot lots of game with an 870. Majority of hunts were in subzero temps in MN for ducks,guess,and big whitetails,and have never not ever,had a malfunction. Most of friends and family use them as slug guns for deer,they shoot very accurate up to 100yds out of box without rifled barrel,you made good choice,cant go wrong with an 870!!! thumbs up!!!


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## lucas_shane (Mar 9, 2009)

www.budsgunshop.com


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## deke (Oct 5, 2004)

Great prices!! A S&W Bodyguard .38 for $361,and the M&P AR for $799. Some good prices for sure.


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## jamisjockey (Jul 30, 2009)

roundman said:


> ended up buying the
> *REMINGTON 870 EXPRESS HOME DEFENSE SHOTGUN with some buckshot 12 pellet shells maybe pick up another grip for it too*


Great choice. 870 is like the F150 of the shotgun world. 
As soon as you can, take it to the range and pattern the gun. See where point of impact is vs. point of aim. If you add a light, take the light and shoot with it on the gun, and turned on.


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