# Question about color preserver



## PTH (Aug 22, 2006)

Rookie question. I used Gudebrod color preserver the other night and I noticed that is seems too goopy. I tried flexcoat and it is a different color and seems a little smoother. When is it time to thin it out? How many coats do you normally apply. I removed all the guides from an old Allstar rod and put them back on for practice. I did not use ncp thread. What are your thoughts? Thanks


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## pg542 (Oct 9, 2006)

PTH, the only experience I've had with Gudebrod cp was about 20 yrs. ago and I haven't used it since. And will never use it again! I've been using flex-coat cp since . There are others out there and would recommend using the same brand of cp as the finish you are using. I don't know if thats completely necessary but why tempt fate. I've read about some folks thinning out cp with water but I've also heard more against the idea. Flex-coat cp is an acrylic sealer suspended in a liquid "carrier"(probably water). If you dilute the "carrier", then you are also reducing the density of the acrylic solids which is whats left when the cp dries. I've had enough negative experiences regarding too little cp, that I pretty much cp everything, ncp or not. The cp seals the thread so the finish won't "soak" into the fibers and saturate them making them almost transparent and/or discoloring it terribly. So to answer your questions and this is only my opinion. I don't like Gudebrod cp. When is it time to thin? Never. If your cp starts getting a little "thick", toss it. How many coats? It depends. If I have a guide wrap that is underwrapped and 2 overwraps like a heavy boat guide and it wasn't ncp thread. I would apply 1coat of cp on the underwrap before wrapping the guide and then at least 2 coats after wrapping, maybe more but thats me. The same guide setup using ncp thread, I would still cp the underwrap and at least 1 good coat on the overwraps. NCP is supposed to have the cp already in it. I've had 2 spools of gudebrod ncp that weren't completely cp'd and when the finish was applied it was ruined. Since then I cp everything, ncp or not. When in doubt, I give it another coat. Just remember, like finish, cp is best applied in very thin coats, as opposed to 1 heavy soaking coat and make sure you don't miss any places because the finish WILL find them for you. Again this is only my opinion and it seems to work well for me. As with most aspects of rodbuilding, there's many ways to do it and just because it's different, doesn't mean its wrong......Good luck,,,,,,jim


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## Goags (May 28, 2004)

Very well explained, Jim! From what I've read and experienced, Gudebrod has been having problems w/ consistent production and I no longer use it. One bottle is thick, the next ok. I've gone back to Flexcoat CP, but it seems to leave a crystal haze on darker threads, especially black. Both leave some colors several shades darker than original. Threadmaster is supposed to have their new CP available sometime in the next month or so...from their test sticks I saw at the NC show and from the small sample bottle I got and have been using, they have addressed both the hazing and color change problems. Here's Andy's pic of the test sticks: http://www.rodbuilding.org/photopost/showphoto.php/photo/6502


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## fabian31268 (Jul 31, 2005)

i had a oldtimer tell me dont use the store bought cp . he says its a waste of money . he said to use elmers glue and thin it with water . what do you guys think of this .ive not tried it yet but kinda makes me think it may work 


fabian


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## pg542 (Oct 9, 2006)

Jerry,I've used FC cp with TM and can't complain but it just makes me feel better using brand to brand. It takes one more possibility out of the equation if there is a problem. I've read a couple of items on andy's cp and waiting on it myself........Fabian, a long time ago I heard something similar but I wouldnt try it. Elmers dries stiff with no flex and also dries milky colored. Not a good way to start a finishing job. Flex coat CP is about 2.50-3.00 dollars a bottle and dries pretty clear and flexible. There's places in rodbuilding to go the inexpensive route. Finishing isn't one of them. ....Jim


Goags said:


> Very well explained, Jim! From what I've read and experienced, Gudebrod has been having problems w/ consistent production and I no longer use it. One bottle is thick, the next ok. I've gone back to Flexcoat CP, but it seems to leave a crystal haze on darker threads, especially black. Both leave some colors several shades darker than original. Threadmaster is supposed to have their new CP available sometime in the next month or so...from their test sticks I saw at the NC show and from the small sample bottle I got and have been using, they have addressed both the hazing and color change problems. Here's Andy's pic of the test sticks: http://www.rodbuilding.org/photopost/showphoto.php/photo/6502


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## Goags (May 28, 2004)

Fabian, here's a link to an older discussion of Elmer's glue as CP. Ralph O'Quinn knows his chemistry and I've no reason to doubt him. Jerry

Posted by: *Ralph O'Quinn* (---.wavecable.com)
Date: May 03, 2006 12:36PM

White glue ie. Elmers glue is a VINYL technology. All color preservers that work are either ACRYLIC or URETHANE/ACRYLIC. Vinyl's in no way are act as a barrier to anything except water. They will make a good water proof wrap if that is all you are interested in. They will not act as a barrier to your rod finishes, and will not prevent the finish from penetrating to the threads. Elmers glue is white in color: so are the water based Acrylics used as color preservers. But there the similarity stops. Any properly managed comparative testing program will reveal that the vinyl's are simply not satisfactory as a color preserver for threads. 
Ralph


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## fabian31268 (Jul 31, 2005)

thanks guy was curious . alot of oldtimers used electrical tape and hose clamps i dont think im gonna try that one either . i think im gonna go with the threadmaster finish and try there cp when it get on the market . i spoke to andy at lamar fishing he said he does busuiness with ftu . i asked him why they dont carry thread master . he said we need to start asking about it and let ftu know we want it . 

fabian


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## lunkerbrad (Feb 17, 2007)

good info .


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## Putter Parpart (Feb 10, 2007)

Pat, if that Gudebrod CP is the old stuff and you're going to throw it, throw it my way. It's the best color preserving CP I've used to date (the OLD stuff). I thin it with alcohol when it's thick. It doesn't need to be 'water' thin to work, though, just thin enough to apply it-slightly pasty, but flows is my best description. I just add a few drops of alcohol to the bottle, shake it up until it's the consistency that I want. I let it set until all the bubbles are gone and use it from there. I only have about 1 1/2 bottles of it left. 

I don't use much CP, though, so it may be all I need for the rest of my years. I definitely won't use it on guide wraps. Personal preference thing for me.

I've got some Diamondite CP that I haven't tried yet, too. Supposed to be a pretty good product from what I've read, but I'd like to test it first before I use it. If it works as well as that old Gudebrod CP did, I'll be in good shape.


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## d4rdbuilder (Jan 19, 2007)

Good thread!


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## captneilf (Feb 29, 2008)

*color preserver/color sealer*

Hi Guys,

Yes I am biased. I dislike the stuff to the extreme. It causes problems, like finish not sticking to the thread when the CS/CP goes bad. It is water soluable so if some extends past the finish it disolves when water hit is and you now have a tunnel under the finish into the thread.

When forced to I use Flex Coats cp/cs.

This is why I use Gudebrod HT Metallic thread.

I will use 3 coats of cs/cp and let it dry. To make sure that it covered totally I will brush 91% iso alcohol over the threads. If I missed a spot the thread area will change to a darker color.

I will use FC cs/cp over white paint to seal the paint with a hard top. When using white thread on a dark blank I paint the area white. At the end of the wrap the tie off loop would score the white paint when pulling the loop thru and leave a line.

Capt Neil


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## Putter Parpart (Feb 10, 2007)

I'm a metal head, too, Neil. I pretty much use metallic threads for all of my wrapping and have for over 15 years. It solved my color problems for me and lets me get by without using any CP, especially on the guide wraps. In recent years, I've moved to Sulky and Madeira metallic threads and use those about 2 or 3 to 1 over Gudebrod. They're much nicer to work with for me. I still use Gudebrod colors that I can't get in the other threads, though. And I'm always looking for new ones, too. I just ordered some Pac Bay metallics today in fact.

After cutting off guides that were CP'ed and then epoxied, I found that there's no penetration of the epoxy into the thread. Cutting those CP'ed threads off is really easy. When no CP is used, the threads are difficult at best to cut off. The epoxy goes past the threads and right to the blank, surrounding each thread (as long as the epoxy is applied while it's still flowing and not towards getting set up).

If there's a break in the epoxy (crack, whatever) and moisture gets in there, there will be a problem when CP is used on the threads. Not when just epoxy is used, though. Only the cracked area itself will let moisture in and the whole wrap won't turn cloudy.

I've actually cut a wrap off that was molded underneath. The guy stored his rods in his boat under a tarp and never took them out of the rod lockers. It was a stinky mess. I've never used CP on a guide wrap since (yeah, it was a rod that I'd built for the guy many, many years ago - and I had to re-wrap it "free" for him).


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## PTH (Aug 22, 2006)

*color preserver*

Boy talk about taking notes! This is why I love this forum. I really appreciate all the input from you guys.


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## Freshwaterman (May 21, 2004)

*Cp*

Guys save your money and make your next bottle of CP Threadmaster. I have used the sample and it is gggggggggggreat. Andy and his team have hit the nail on the head.


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## fabian31268 (Jul 31, 2005)

?? where did you get this sample kinda of curiuos ?


fabian


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## pg542 (Oct 9, 2006)

Hurry up Andy


Paul Lindsey said:


> Guys save your money and make your next bottle of CP Threadmaster. I have used the sample and it is gggggggggggreat. Andy and his team have hit the nail on the head.


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## STxFisherman (Jan 15, 2006)

d4rdbuilder said:


> Good thread!


Pun intended?


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