# 18 dead Tarpon with 5 weeks to go



## marc




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## TrueblueTexican

*I dunno Marc*

Delayed mortality may be much higher --

I quit all C,W&R tournies in 2001 as a matter of MY fishing ethic - due to "honest" mortality numbers from biologists

We have put bounties on most fish species for play and pay. Do tournies hurt the overall population? - probably not, no more than the MExicans dynamiting them, but in local hotspots there are temporary reductions --

All anglers are responsible in as much as we all like to catch and release big fish, there is a lot of handling I have NEVER agreed with, especially gaffing a tarpon thru its lip

I still pull and occasional fish in the boat for quick pics, they swim away, maybe they live, maybe a shark gets em, but overall natural mortality is much higher


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## TranTheMan

That is sad! Just wondering if folks who participate in the tournament really believe that the fish would make it?


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## Gilbert

I only saw one dead fish. Hasn't that tournament been going on for years?


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## Fish-a-mon

How many have been caught and released only to die later? Fish are going to die. Only way is not to catch fish


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## marc

looks like more than just one...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/207151885986168832

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/207133322156056577

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/207138446010105856


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## Meadowlark

That Pro Tarpon Tour makes me sick to my stomach. Ask a Keys guide sometime what he thinks of that bunch...or any Tarpon guide who trys to make a living. I've never met a Tarpon guide who wasn't pro-conservation.


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## rvd

Meadowlark said:


> That Pro Tarpon Tour makes me sick to my stomach. Ask a Keys guide sometime what he thinks of that bunch...or any Tarpon guide who trys to make a living. I've never met a Tarpon guide who wasn't pro-conservation.


Not my cup of tea either.


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## marc

*not good*


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## cpthook

Looks like they may want to reconsider this tournament. Dragging the fish to the beach for weigh and measurements is too much adn you would think all involved would know this.


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## DrewBob

Fish-a-mon said:


> How many have been caught and released only to die later? Fish are going to die. Only way is not to catch fish


So after spending thousands of dollars on boats, gear, fuel etc what are we going to call it - Watching


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## Byrdseye

I mostly just lurk here but i think this is interesting.............

http://savethetarpon.com/


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## Slow Boat

DrewBob said:


> So after spending thousands of dollars on boats, gear, fuel etc what are we going to call it - Watching


No, catching a fish, snapping a picture, reviving it and letting it go is going to have much better survival than dragging it in for a weigh-in.


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## capt mullet

I do not agree with gaffing a tarpon nor do I agree with dragging a tarpon in for weigh-in but this video is BS in my opinion. Looks like a PETA video. They say there are 10's of thousands of tarpon in that pass and since tarpon are a catch and release fish why are they concerned. Lets compare to speckled trout here in Galveston. I would assume we have 10's of thousands of specks in our bay and 1000's are harvested every month. compare that to 18 tarpon!! Or lets talk about the Mexicans that kill them and use them for fertilizer by the 1000's every year. It doesnt make sense to believe that the PTTS is affecting or diminishing the species. That is just not true. Juts a bunch of PETA lovers putting this video out !!!!


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## Scott

capt mullet said:


> I do not agree with gaffing a tarpon nor do I agree with dragging a tarpon in for weigh-in but this video is BS in my opinion. Looks like a PETA video. They say there are 10's of thousands of tarpon in that pass and since tarpon are a catch and release fish why are they concerned. Lets compare to speckled trout here in Galveston. I would assume we have 10's of thousands of specks in our bay and 1000's are harvested every month. compare that to 18 tarpon!! Or lets talk about the Mexicans that kill them and use them for fertilizer by the 1000's every year. It doesnt make sense to believe that the PTTS is affecting or diminishing the species. That is just not true. Juts a bunch of PETA lovers putting this video out !!!!


To compare the biological dynamics of a speckled trout to a tarpon is to ignore the biological differences between the two. The spawning and life cycle of a tarpon are about as close to a spec as a spec is to a rain minnow - actually a spec and a rain minnow are probably closer. A spec and a tarpon are like apples and oranges. Haven't heard of a sow trout living 60 years, producing tens of millions of eggs each year, depositing them 100 miles offshore just so that two offspring over those 60 years can become adults, spawn and maintain the species. (Granted that is over simplified but I think it makes the point.) Also, the video has NOTHING to do with PETA. To claim the folks are associated with PETA, I'd like to see your proof of that. I happen to know this is not a PETA video.

Also, Mexican's don't use tarpon for fertilizer any longer. They did and it almost destroyed our fishery in Texas. Today, at least on the books, tarpon are supposed to have some protection in Mexico, granted enforcement sucks but it is not as bad as it once was and as far as I know from the biologists and Mexican officials I've heard from they are not used for fertilizer any longer. They do however use them in some areas as food sources for roe etc. And yes, Mexico has an adverse effect on the population. That is why there is a push to get Mexico to enforce better and change their capture regulations.

I do agree it is overly dramatic as a video and probably over exaggerates things for effect. I'm not a big fan of the video and unfortunately I think both sides of this issue have differing agendas that neither wants to admit. But I can say with about as much certainty as I can that dragging them to a weigh station kills a lot of fish unnecessarily and likely kills more fish than if it was a complete catch and release tournament (but that doesn't make for as good a TV show). The problem as I see it is that the PTTS tries to claim their are conservation oriented.... but in reality, I have reason to believe they know a lot of these fish are likely dying and they simply wish to look the other way.... too many big bucks involved in the publicity. That's just my opinion. And in the next few weeks you'll see some of the facts behind why I have personally reached this conclusion over the past 45 days. More to come........

but I am always willing to admit I'm wrong if folks step up to the plate and show me otherwise...

stay tuned!!!!


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## InfamousJ

Scott said:


> I do agree it is overly dramatic as a video and probably over exaggerates things for effect. I'm not a big fan of the video and unfortunately I think both sides of this issue have differing agendas that neither wants to admit. *But I can say with about as much certainty as I can that dragging them to a weigh station kills a lot of fish unnecessarily and likely kills more fish than if it was a complete catch and release tournament* (but that doesn't make for as good a TV show). The problem as I see it is that the PTTS tries to claim their are conservation oriented.... but in reality, I have reason to believe they know a lot of these fish are likely dying and they simply wish to look the other way.... too many big bucks involved in the publicity. That's just my opinion. And in the next few weeks you'll see some of the facts behind why I have personally reached this conclusion over the past 45 days. More to come........
> 
> but I am always willing to admit I'm wrong if folks step up to the plate and show me otherwise...
> 
> stay tuned!!!!


do they have a tagging system for tarpon like marling and such? has anyone done any kind of electronic tracking on tarpon? would that be a way to determine if the release is killing them?

I know we have fewer tarpon on our Texas coast than in the 50's, 60's, etc. per stories from my older family members calling them a nuisance while trying to catch trout. LOL But pictures and video from Florida shows a thriving huge population, i.e. feeding them off a pier. 18 dead on the title of this post to me is not alarming. Sounds more like an attempt to sesationalize the word killing and relate the tourney to a bad thing.

I'd be interesting in possible real time electronic tarpon tracking from this tourney to see if the mortality is great from live releases. I hope it would show they do live better than people predict.


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## Scott

InfamousJ said:


> do they have a tagging system for tarpon like marling and such? has anyone done any kind of electronic tracking on tarpon? would that be a way to determine if the release is killing them?
> 
> I know we have fewer tarpon on our Texas coast than in the 50's, 60's, etc. per stories from my older family members calling them a nuisance while trying to catch trout. LOL But pictures and video from Florida shows a thriving huge population, i.e. feeding them off a pier. 18 dead on the title of this post to me is not alarming. Sounds more like an attempt to sesationalize the word killing and relate the tourney to a bad thing.
> 
> I'd be interesting in possible real time electronic tarpon tracking from this tourney to see if the mortality is great from live releases. I hope it would show they do live better than people predict.


Yes, we have lots of data on tagging of tarpon with satellite tags - go to

http://www.projecttarpon.com/PATresearch.html

I've personally tagged almost every one in Texas so I have some experience on knowing which ones survived and which ones didn't and why.

As far as the PTTS tournament tagging fish.... ahhh... don't get ahead of me...


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## Swells

I didn't watch the offending video, but I can say that I was taught to leave tarpon in the water and never hoist it out, even for a glory picture - and never to weigh it. 

If you have weigh-in tournaments for tarpon, well, that just don't make no sense to me. My daddy would smack me for doing that, and make me eat every bit of it!


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## crw91383

InfamousJ said:


> 18 dead on the title of this post to me is not alarming.


To me 18 dead is not alarming it is completely unacceptable! Whatbth PTTS is doing is ridiculous and I hope somebody eventually puts a stop to it. I've seen the show on tv and it's **** near bumper boats in the pass.


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## Scott

In early May, ProjectTarpon.com requested the PTTS to allow us to satellite tag tarpon weighed during the tournament. It received no response. Let me say that again, *no response at all*. Now that his debate has arisen so sharply, it would seem to me that this would answer the debate, one way or the other for everybody. I'll let each of you read the letter and make up your own minds. Here is a link to the letter which I am now making public because I have gotten no response at all.

http://www.projecttarpon.com/PTTS Letter.html


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## TrueblueTexican

*Ah HA*

And in the next few weeks you'll see some of the facts behind why I have personally reached this conclusion over the past 45 days. More to come........

but I am always willing to admit I'm wrong if folks step up to the plate and show me otherwise...

stay tuned!!!!

Scott , I see you are getting older and wiser :brew:


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## Scott

TrueblueTexican said:


> And in the next few weeks you'll see some of the facts behind why I have personally reached this conclusion over the past 45 days. More to come........
> 
> but I am always willing to admit I'm wrong if folks step up to the plate and show me otherwise...
> 
> stay tuned!!!!
> 
> Scott , I see you are getting older and wiser :brew:


I view part of the problem over there is that there is a lot of anecdotal evidence floating around [no pun intended] but not a lot of proof. I'd be happy to have the tagging prove the majority of the fish survive that get weighed. I really would.

But when somebody ignores a request like this, it makes my radar go up and wonder why? Where is the transparency? I figure if you're not doing anything wrong, what have you got to hide... maybe that's just the scenic in me???

On the jig vs. no jig debate - I've seen the evidence and pictures both ways. Snagging or not snagging? I don't think we've got a good answer yet. I know people can say, "Well, I've done it and know its not snagging." That again is anecdotal and not proof of anything. Not anymore than folks showing pictures of tarpon with jigs in places they shouldn't be. The research that was done was not a large enough sample to show anything (IMHO) and there are allegations about bias in the study itself. When you have that, you have to throw it out and start over. Find a better way to do it and be more objective. Have people from both sides involved in formulating the processes in the study and agreeing on format, definitions, etc.

I know for a fact a tarpon will eat a jig like a **** pop. They will. Are they in Boca Grande Pass? Some probably are - are some snagged? Maybe... but nobody will know for sure until there is some DATA to answer it.

I also see an over-riding issue in the debate over a "use of the resource" and "access to the resource" issue that taints a lot of the debate over there. Scientific study of the issue can remove that resource use debate out of the equation if it is set up correctly.

I think that no matter what, a fair approach to this issue will be good for tarpon. That's where my loyalty is. I don't condone either side for some of their actions. There are extremists on each side. I have personal feelings about jigging and the PTTS style of fishing but I'll freely admit to them and I will also say they have no place in trying to answer the questions here. Jig - no jig and weigh - don't weigh issues can be answered without personal feelings getting involved and if your style of fishing is still good sportsmanship and not knowingly hurting the resource, then it is not my place or anybody's place to say you can't do it. Just my 2 cents.

Some will say that I fish mostly in Texas and I should shut up and go away - none of my business. I disagree. Our studies show tarpon on the west coast of Florida going to Louisiana and Louisiana tarpon coming to Texas... your fish are my fish to some extent and that has been shown. So it is everybody's business if they fish tarpon on this side of the Atlantic.

Some will also say, well, you're not going after Louisiana tournaments and they kill tarpon. True, they do kill tarpon and have kill tournaments. I don't like them and won't kill a fish during one. I fished Grande Isle last year and my team agreed not to kill a tarpon, even if it meant giving up thousands of dollars in prize money. My feeling is the only way to change some things is from within. I had hoped we would get over there and make a statement. Unfortunately, we didn't get that chance but we tried. I am also active in trying to do things to get a uniform set of tarpon regulations in the US in place. That would force Louisiana's hand. I don't think we can go to Mexico and ask them to better regulate tarpon killed there until we better regulate them in this country. I have a lot of friends in Louisiana who probably wouldn't like this position, but it is what it is and we have shown clearly that Texas tarpon go to Louisiana and vice versa - so I definitely have a dog in that hunt... on a regular basis. Protecting tarpon in Texas and allowing Louisiana to not even protect them as a game fish, makes no sense to me. I don't like the feds getting involved in things but sometimes, there is little choice. Tarpon are an interstate resource. (probably more so than snapper)


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## Bob Haley

*Tarpon tagging*

Scott

I met you during the Katy CCA meeting and really want to learn how to catch and help tag POC tarpon. I will help and volunteer my boat and cabin if anyone with experience wants to plan a trip. Or organize a group of boats to assist in your research.
Let me know anytime if there is a trip. BH 7132534370


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## capt mullet

thanks for setting me straight Scott on the difference between a trout and a tarpon. Duh!! I was merely trying to state in a sarcastic way the obvious fact that tarpon are a catch and release species and that very few tarpon are retained each year by citizens of the US. And for someone to state that the fishery is going to be crippled because of this tourney is ridiculous especially when other species like rain minnows aka trout are retained by the thousands. "Rain minnow aka trout" is a joke with sarcasm so please dont give me the biological differences

Of course it is not a PETA video. PETA believes that all fishing should be banned. I was merely trying to over emphasis the ridiculousness of someone saying that the PTTS is causing the decline of tarpon as a species. I was also trying to "over-state" the concerns of the person who made this video by stating they have a "PETA" type mentality. I am very surprised that you didnt realize this while reading the thread.

On a serious note: I did not know that the slaughter of tarpon off of Mexico had slowed down that much. That is good news that I was not aware of.


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## InfamousJ

Scott said:


> Some will also say, well, you're not going after Louisiana tournaments and they kill tarpon. True, they do kill tarpon and have kill tournaments. I don't like them and won't kill a fish during one. I fished Grande Isle last year and my team agreed not to kill a tarpon, even if it meant giving up thousands of dollars in prize money. My feeling is the only way to change some things is from within. I had hoped we would get over there and make a statement. Unfortunately, we didn't get that chance but we tried. I am also active in trying to do things to get a uniform set of tarpon regulations in the US in place. That would force Louisiana's hand. I don't think we can go to Mexico and ask them to better regulate tarpon killed there until we better regulate them in this country. I have a lot of friends in Louisiana who probably wouldn't like this position, but it is what it is and we have shown clearly that Texas tarpon go to Louisiana and vice versa - so I definitely have a dog in that hunt... on a regular basis. Protecting tarpon in Texas and allowing Louisiana to not even protect them as a game fish, makes no sense to me. I don't like the feds getting involved in things but sometimes, there is little choice. Tarpon are an interstate resource. (probably more so than snapper)


 You should talk to some original founders and team members of GCCA (not CCA, the GCCA back then) and ask them about driving over and talking to Louisiana fishermen. In the beginning, they went over there in a small group to talk about redfish and to quit using gill nets. I think it was quite a colorful experience.


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## SharkBait >*)\\\><(

this struck a nerve i have always wanted to hold the king of the fish(have only landed one 15pounder) and let it go alive to get bigger and make more...
i cant fathom killing a tarpon for any reason be it sharkbait, tournaments or any other reason other than pure accident...


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