# Shooting steel



## Stuart (May 21, 2004)

I have my first piece of AR 500 steel coming in the next couple of days. My understanding is high velocity rifles should be shot at a minimum of 100 yards. I'm going to shoot pistols from about 10 yards. 

My question is what about pistol cartridge rifles? Specifically a Henry Golden Boy chambered in .357 mag. I'm thinking 25 yards should be a good distance for that?


Thanks


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## johnsons1480 (Jun 24, 2016)

Unless loaded differently, you should get a similar velocity from a pistol caliber rifle as you do in a long pistol. Pistol powders are designed to burn up quickly because they're designed to be shot out of shorter barrels.

If it's rated for .357 magnum, you should be good to shoot it at 10 yards out of that pistol caliber rifle.


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## Stuart (May 21, 2004)

johnsons1480 said:


> Unless loaded differently, you should get a similar velocity from a pistol caliber rifle as you do in a long pistol. Pistol powders are designed to burn up quickly because they're designed to be shot out of shorter barrels.
> 
> If it's rated for .357 magnum, you should be good to shoot it at 10 yards out of that pistol caliber rifle.


Yeah, I thought about that. Something just doesn't seem right standing 10 yards from a steel plate with a long arm lol.


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## johnsons1480 (Jun 24, 2016)

Stuart said:


> Yeah, I thought about that. Something just doesn't seem right standing 10 yards from a steel plate with a long arm lol.


That's very true. Also, it's 10 yds from the muzzle, not your feet. So another yard or so back would be a good idea

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## cva34 (Dec 22, 2008)

*Lead*

Just a reminder be sure to shoot lead bullets..Jacketed bullets want to spit the Jacket back at you..


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## Rmm (Jun 7, 2013)

Mount it so it's angled slightly down. Putting a chain on from the back with bolts will usually angle it enough to drive the bullets down


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## johnsons1480 (Jun 24, 2016)

Rmm said:


> Mount it so it's angled slightly down. Putting a chain on from the back with bolts will usually angle it enough to drive the bullets down


Solid advice. While we're talking about safety, wear good shooting glasses. Put them on as soon as your on the range, and don't take them off until you leave. It's always important, but even more so when shooting steel. You're probably more likely to take some slag to the eye as the spectator than the shooter.


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## Stuart (May 21, 2004)

Yep. The mount it hangs on will angle it around 15 degrees. Safety glasses - check. I have read and watched a ton of stuff. As long as one observes a few basic guidelines, it seems safe.


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## jm423 (Sep 18, 2011)

We removed (and banned) all metallic targets from our club range sometime back after a "bounce-back" injury. Seemed that despite all our efforts to keep them safe, some idiot would find a way to get around them. A persons private range--another matter.


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## muney pit (Mar 24, 2014)

I bought a sheet of ar500 years ago. Cut out what i wanted and sold the rest. Its got divets but nothing major. Seems we mostly shoot it at 50-100 yards with everything from 5.56 and 5.45. 15 yards is about as close to it with a pistol as i dare go. No issues so far. When it gets pitted real bad i hit it with a grinder and smooth it out.


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## sylvan (Dec 26, 2007)

Some large cartridges and calibers treat even AR plate badly but you should be fine with almost any handgun cartridge and bullet. 
There are some special bullets made for handguns you can load that will penetrate 3/8 AR at short range but I have never seen them available as a factory round. 
In this pic, the holes were from a 300 RUM/215 Berger bullet. It still surprised me they went through


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## Rmm (Jun 7, 2013)

*Steel*

I shoot steel quite a bit, but usually at 400 yards or more with rifles. Handguns 50 yards or more. Always free swinging. I have no craters in my targets and they are shot with calibers up to 338. They are ar 500. At our lease there are some thick steel targets, they will crater badly and I believe those bullets are more prone to bouncing back .


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## 223AI (May 7, 2012)

Nothing quite as boring as a paper only range (looking at you, Bayou Rifles). Old outdated thinking is old. Set up properly, AR500 steel targets are perfectly safe, especially for rifles. Pistols too.


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## muney pit (Mar 24, 2014)

223AI said:


> Nothing quite as boring as a paper only range (looking at you, Bayou Rifles). Old outdated thinking is old. Set up properly, AR500 steel targets are perfectly safe, especially for rifles. Pistols too.


One of many reasons i quite going there.


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

223AI said:


> Nothing quite as boring as a paper only range (looking at you, Bayou Rifles). Old outdated thinking is old. Set up properly, AR500 steel targets are perfectly safe, especially for rifles. Pistols too.


I guess you missed those few hundred steel silhouette targets and the steel challenge matches, huh?


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## 223AI (May 7, 2012)

dwilliams35 said:


> I guess you missed those few hundred steel silhouette targets and the steel challenge matches, huh?


Get back to me when the board allows steel targets at the 200/300 yard range, and the 600+ range. There is really no reason at all to not allow for it, other than ignorance and old thinking.

I stick to the 100 yard range for load development, and 300/600/1000 for confirmation on paper, and then spend my time at other more progressive ranges (NOT ASC, by any means) because shooting steel is fun, and I compete in a precision rifle discipline where 99% of the points are score via steel targets.

Don't get me wrong, I love the place...but the sole focus on f-class/palma/high-power crowds and the reluctance to allow steel targets is a detriment.

Paper is boring.


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

223AI said:


> Get back to me when the board allows steel targets at the 200/300 yard range, and the 600+ range. There is really no reason at all to not allow for it, other than ignorance and old thinking.
> 
> I stick to the 100 yard range for load development, and 300/600/1000 for confirmation on paper, and then spend my time at other more progressive ranges (NOT ASC, by any means) because shooting steel is fun, and I compete in a precision rifle discipline where 99% of the points are score via steel targets.
> 
> ...


Have you ever made any effort to get that included? When I was taking my RSO classes, they said they'd likely include about any shooting discipline that they had the facilities for, and the key, somebody to spearhead it. The stuff they do have at the range all has people volunteering to put it all together ; they've got quite a few steel target disciplines already, so it's pretty tough to make a blanket statement of "they don't allow it".


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## 223AI (May 7, 2012)

dwilliams35 said:


> Have you ever made any effort to get that included? When I was taking my RSO classes, they said they'd likely include about any shooting discipline that they had the facilities for, and the key, somebody to spearhead it. The stuff they do have at the range all has people volunteering to put it all together ; they've got quite a few steel target disciplines already, so it's pretty tough to make a blanket statement of "they don't allow it".


I've informally talked to the president on multiple occasions at Juliff (not that he would remember, and it was a few years ago), and answered the questionnaire detailing that I would be happy to add steel myself, and work on berms, and haven't heard anything back other than feedback that steel is a fire hazard, which does not make sense.

As far as blanket statements, show me where they have allowed steel at the 200/300/600+ range, and I'll retract everything that I have said, and buy you lunch...

Bayou Rifles is a great place, is super convenient for me, and I am very happy to be a member...but they are f-class/palma/highpower heavy, and still a bit old school. I mean seriously, until approximately 3-4 years ago, I had to jump through hoops to get one of my suppressors approved to shoot there, and it was technically only allowed to be shot on one rifle.

If you think you have the secret sauce to get steel approval at distance, shoot me a PM, and I'll help formulate a plan and be as available as I can, to include helping offset steel cost.


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## bearintex (Feb 7, 2006)

jm423 said:


> We removed (and banned) all metallic targets from our club range sometime back after a "bounce-back" injury. Seemed that despite all our efforts to keep them safe, some idiot would find a way to get around them. A persons private range--another matter.


Nothing like a knee jerk reaction to a one in a million chance.


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## Stuart (May 21, 2004)

I got my target up and love it. I've shot it with .22 lr, .38 special, 45 acp and 9mm so far. The hanger gives it a good angle which I like. Now to buy some plates lol.


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## Worm Drowner (Sep 9, 2010)

Stuart said:


> I got my target up and love it. I've shot it with .22 lr, .38 special, 45 acp and 9mm so far. The hanger gives it a good angle which I like. Now to buy some plates lol.


Give Mike at Ping Time Targets a call. http://www.pingtimetargets.com/

I shoot with Rosenberg Defensive Pistol Club and we use his products. He's good people.


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## muney pit (Mar 24, 2014)

Stuart said:


> I got my target up and love it. I've shot it with .22 lr, .38 special, 45 acp and 9mm so far. The hanger gives it a good angle which I like. Now to buy some plates lol.


For pistol all you need is mild steel. I made a plate rack out of 3/8 mild steel and its held upp to 1,000's of pistol and 22lr rounds. Glad ya got stuff up and going.


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

223AI said:


> I've informally talked to the president on multiple occasions at Juliff (not that he would remember, and it was a few years ago), and answered the questionnaire detailing that I would be happy to add steel myself, and work on berms, and haven't heard anything back other than feedback that steel is a fire hazard, which does not make sense.
> 
> As far as blanket statements, show me where they have allowed steel at the 200/300/600+ range, and I'll retract everything that I have said, and buy you lunch...
> 
> ...


I'm just looking at the sheer fact that there's already steel matches going in there as being an indication that it's not just completely verboten.. the fire hazard is legitimate in certain conditions; I've set a fire or two myself shooting steel in very dry conditions. That's a lot easier to deal with on a home range than an active controlled range, I would imagine; just put the gun down and put it out.

I really think it would take a little more than offering to buy some targets; they're looking for an active discipline to support it; get enough people on board for a shoot that would effectively shut down the range to paper in the interim, and you may be able to hold such an event; that being said, as you mention they're more aimed at competition, and this has got to go well beyond just a satisfying "ping" for a Hit. You're probably looking at SOME type of rule changes, as well as some possible changes to the already-struggling RSO program.

One way or another, it's got to go well beyond just getting some targets set up, and when various "alternative disciplines" like this show up, they're invariably going to just get some rolled eyes and "we'll call you laters" in the absence of a serious volunteer spearheading of the entire program, including organizing matches and such. Remember just what you're going to be competing with for space on that line here: the f-class/highpower/etc. has a little thing called NRA and TSRA sanctioning behind it; come up with that kind of support, figure out the logistics, and have somebody willing to put some serious long-term time into it, and I think you'd be surprised; every discipline that enjoys that kind of support at BR has all that.


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## Stuart (May 21, 2004)

muney pit said:


> For pistol all you need is mild steel. I made a plate rack out of 3/8 mild steel and its held upp to 1,000's of pistol and 22lr rounds. Glad ya got stuff up and going.


That would be fun. The 12" x 22" I bought _will_ see rifle action, just not at my place here where I only have 10 acres. I'll haul steel back and forth to my place north of Huntsville where I can stretch things out a bit.


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## Stuart (May 21, 2004)

Worm Drowner said:


> Give Mike at Ping Time Targets a call. http://www.pingtimetargets.com/
> 
> I shoot with Rosenberg Defensive Pistol Club and we use his products. He's good people.


Thanks. I'll check him out.


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## donf (Aug 8, 2005)

cva34 said:


> Just a reminder be sure to shoot lead bullets..Jacketed bullets want to spit the Jacket back at you..


This^^^^^^
I have a scar on my chin to prove it, six stitches.


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## Scotty2380 (May 19, 2017)

Just finished...Handgun and AR steel targets from Shooting targets 7.....


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## muney pit (Mar 24, 2014)

Nice


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## Chase4556 (Aug 26, 2008)

We shoot steel a lot at work. I was just at a shooting course up at FT Campbell a few weeks ago, and we shot thousands and thousands of 9mm and 5.56 at steel. 

Something our instructors do, and maybe its common practice, is they have rifle steel and pistol steel. I asked about it, and they said the slight dents left by rifle rounds can cause those pistol round to send flak off at odd angles, so they keep rifle targets for rifle, pistol for pistol. Something you may want to keep in mind. 

We shot those pistol targets at 7yds, out to about 20yds. All with military FMJ 9mm. Key here was always have eye pro and preferably pants and long sleeves on. Even with that, my buddy still took a piece of jacket through his mechanix gloves into a knuckle. It happens, but its rare. We were shooting multiple targets at different angles, and running 4 different shooting lanes, so the odds of us getting hit with flak was MUCH greater than just shooting a single target straight in front of us. 

Rifle, we were shooting green tip, so to preserve the steel, we didn't shoot the main targets at less than 100yds. They did have a small popper target that we used to zero our PEQ15s for night fire, and even at 50yds it held up fine.


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