# .223 on deer Thread not enough info



## Blue.dog (May 8, 2005)

The question was Shot placement.
The answers went more to the type of bullet versus shot placement. Of course one has to consider the bullet versus shot placement. This I understand.
So, here are the bullets suggested:
60 grain Partition
Barnes X
Corelok
55 grain Soft point
55 grain ballistic tip
Barnes 62 grain TSX
62 gr HP

I don't want to take 2 guns to the blind everytime I go out. I have a lot of hogs and that was the reason for purchasing the AR.

Now if I only have the AR in the blind and a shooter comes out, which bullet should I have in my AR.

I always neck shoot, unless the buck is a wall hanger, so to speak, then I shoot behind the shoulder into the rib cage trying to get both lungs.

So, what above is the right bullet?

I have found the Remington UMC bullet - 55 grain HP to shoot well in my AR. see attached picture. Marks are at 1 inch with a one inch square in the red.

Question : why not it over those listed above.

Thanks,
B.D


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## coogerpop (Sep 3, 2009)

There is no easy answer to your questions...If you are going to shoot a deer behind the shoulder...you want the bullet to pass thru and leave an exit to bleed...cause he's going to run...they all do on a lung shot...a 223 hollow point has a great chance of not exiting....I would much prefer a partition or solid copper expanding point....but if you are shooting below the ear or high neck....then shoot the most accurate. This is a kinda general answer to a really broad question...


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## Instigator (Jul 6, 2004)

BD, if the group was twice as big it would still be plenty tight enough to get the job done. I agree with coogerpop, I would lean toward the round that I was confident of making a blood trail exit and those HPs just might not get that done.


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## Blue.dog (May 8, 2005)

OK,

So, tell me what to shoot.
Specifically. As in, when I go to Bass Pro Shop, or Academy, or Cabela's (on line) what to purchase.

and 

will the bullet through the lungs still work for the neck shot?

thanks, big time.
B.D


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Certainly will work for a neck shot too, but a blow up will not work in the boiler room. So one bullet and one gun to hunt = BARNES


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## Sea-Slug (May 28, 2004)

Somebody has saw countless deer killed with a 22 rimfire according to another thread I read on here. Makes me wonder???


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## ERdoc (Jun 6, 2012)

I have been using my AR-15 to deer hunt for the past 3 seasons for the same reason- in case hogs come out. I have been using Hornady 55 grain Vmax rounds and the deer have never taken more than 5 steps. Shot placement behind shoulder with rarely an exit wound. Due to the varmint tip the bullet pretty much shrapnels out and usually does a great job of destroying both lungs and heart. Haven't tried other rounds because there has not been a need to do so. Hope this helps.


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## Deersteaks (Mar 30, 2010)

Charlie is spot on.If you shoot in the neck or behind the ribs, the effect will be the same.Both will exit and leave massive damage.The key is blood trail "IF", he runs...Barnes (copper expandable):cheers: every time...


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## bh96 (Jan 15, 2012)

I also bought a AR15 for hogs and yots and anything else I wanted to scare the hell out of after I rigged it completly out with the generation 2 eotech and flashlights and lasers and all the good stuff you can buy for it. Bottom line is you can shoot deer with it. My 12 yrold son loves using it shoot deer with it he has killed 5 or 6 with it. Hell Ill even admit to shooting deer with it. Of course the difference between him and me is I do head shots and he does behind shoulder shots. Also when he shoots it he uses the 75gr bullets from Academy I use what ever I get my hand on since I have around 3000 rounds of Ammo for it. Shot placement is everything but like I said if my son can shoot a deer in the heart at 150yrd with a holographic sight then it can be done. We hardly ever take it out anymore since I bought him a 7mm08 and I got a AR10 now. But yes it will and can do the job.


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## Brute (Apr 29, 2009)

I really like the Barnes TSX. I shoot the 85gr TSX in my 6.8 and it hasn't let me down.


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## Bottomsup (Jul 12, 2006)

Yep a .22 rimfire in the ear or upper neck worked everytime. This guy was my neighbor and he and his family lived on deer meat. Never turned him in because he probably would have shot me. A bullet that explodes in the rib cage works just as well as one that passes through but does not leave as good a blood trail as mention. Bow hunters would rather have a pencil hole through both lungs than a giant hole in one lung. The bullet that explodes inside the rib cage like a Nosler BT will hydraulicly explode most organs. Its a nasty mess of goo when you open it up. A BT bullet in the shoulder may not kill from lack of penetration but a deers rib cage is thin skin and the rib bones are thin. I say quit worrying about the gun and ammo. Shoot what you prefer and enjoy the hunt.


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## Bottomsup (Jul 12, 2006)

Oh and rimfires will drop people to. My neighbor on the other side of me killed his wife with one to the head. Glad I dont live there anymore.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Yes sir 22 rimfire will work certainly but I think the guy was wanting something that would work every time and every situation and distance. Ole faithful rimfire wont do that but a Barnes X will


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## Pocketfisherman (May 30, 2005)

Sea-Slug said:


> Somebody has saw countless deer killed with a 22 rimfire according to another thread I read on here. Makes me wonder???


In Lakeway TX a few years back, there was a big hullabaloo when the city wanted to bring in hired pro hunters to eradicate an overpopulation of deer. It made the news, and one of the pro's selling points was that they would be using 22 rimfire rifles to minimize collateral damage to property. So, a person with prior experience with 22LR on deer is not necessarily a poacher.


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## Bottomsup (Jul 12, 2006)

Charlie, I understand. My point was that a deer is just not that hard to kill. I watch a buddy drop a hog in its tracks shot once through the shoulder with an AR15 and a FMJ bullet. Pocket, My neighbor was a big time poacher. He was big, ugly and scary but the game warden did get him once that I know of. I bet he killed 25-30 deer every year.


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## A Draper (Aug 14, 2007)

I wonder how many folks have actually killed multiple hogs with an AR. I have tried the concept first with an mini-14 then later with an AR. Where I hunt is so wooded and the hogs took off so fast after the first shot that I had little success with follow up shots. I gave up and built a hog trap.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Bottomsup

FMJ will do it every time just someties mite take a little longer.. But the situation where the rimfire will work is not always there. Thats all I am saying you dont have to worry with a 22 like a 223, 220 swift, 22-250, 222, with the Barnes you can shoot anyplace and any distance, thats all. I understand about the rimfire.


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## Blue.dog (May 8, 2005)

OK,
Thanks, now I have enough information.

Looks like the 55 grain Barnes TSX is the bullet for me.
Since it is 55 grains, hopefully I don't have to re-zero from my practice
ammo to hunting ammo.

Now, all I have to do is find some. The TTSX sounds good to me, also.
anybody use them.
B.D


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## Brute (Apr 29, 2009)

A Draper said:


> I wonder how many folks have actually killed multiple hogs with an AR. I have tried the concept first with an mini-14 then later with an AR. Where I hunt is so wooded and the hogs took off so fast after the first shot that I had little success with follow up shots. I gave up and built a hog trap.


I got video of a double. We also use a red magnalight to spotlight grain fields... I have had quite a few 4 and 5 groups... Lots of 2s and 3s.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Blue dog

I promise you will have to re zero with different ammo. The Barnes is going to shoot in a different spot. Always re zero when changing ammo even if it is the same bullet weight. And be aware Barnes are not cheap so dont shoot too much paper. Good hunting


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## THE JAMMER (Aug 1, 2005)

*"I always neck shoot, unless the buck is a wall hanger, so to speak, then I shoot behind the shoulder into the rib cage trying to get both lungs."
*

Blue Dog,
* 
*WHY do you do this*??????????*

Are you concerned that you have less of a chance of having a killing shot and might lose that wall hangar???

If that is true, then aren't you saying that neck shot is a lower percentage shot???

If so, then why EVER take one???
*

*


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## 98aggie77566 (Jul 7, 2009)

Pretty sure the shoulder shot on the trophy is to not explode a ginormous hole in the hide....for taxidermy purposes.

I do the same....does in the neck. If you hit, they are a goner...if you miss its clean (usually)....and you dont waste any meat.


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## CaptDocHoliday (Feb 3, 2011)

I'm hearing a lot of folks saying Barnes bullets. I have a few questions. 

Why is this is best? I have never shot a 100% copper round, so I'm curious to what makes this a superior round to a partition for example.

The Barnes bullets I'm seeing tend to run a bit lighter than their partition or BT conterparts (i.e. I'm seeing 80 grain TSX's and 95 grains BT's for a .243) is this weight different going to make a dramatic difference?

I'm interested in finding the best buillet type for deer out of a .243.

Thanks!


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## Bottomsup (Jul 12, 2006)

Charlie, I didnt mean a rimfire would always work in any situation. In fact I wouldnt even consider it beyond 50 yards or so. What I do mean is any bullet from a .223 will do the job if used properly within range. Here is a story for you. I watched a doe get shot in the ear with a .270 Not in the head just the ear like to wear an earring. She went down like she was hit between the eyes. For about five minutes she laid there as dead as a stone but then got up and run away. Not one drop of blood anywhere. My best man in my wedding shot a nice buck with a 25-06 high in the back. When he got up to it the deer was trying to get up so he shot it in the neck without thinking that he wanted to have it mounted. After the shot he said oh **** I bet the whole back side of the neck is gone. To his surprise the bullet didnt exit.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Bottoms up

Yup bullets are different as we all know. I think best I recall the guy just wanted a bullet he could shoot in his 223 that he could shoot and not have any issues whether he shot boiler room or neck. After years of testing I suggested Barnes. Basically that was it. I think we agree on all or most of it. Good hunting


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## THE JAMMER (Aug 1, 2005)

CaptDocHoliday said:


> I'm hearing a lot of folks saying Barnes bullets. I have a few questions.
> 
> Why is this is best? I have never shot a 100% copper round, so I'm curious to what makes this a superior round to a partition for example.
> 
> ...


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## Bottomsup (Jul 12, 2006)

THE JAMMER said:


> CaptDocHoliday said:
> 
> 
> > I'm hearing a lot of folks saying Barnes bullets. I have a few questions.
> ...


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Re Barnes bullets and being lighter. Yes they are normally because there is no lead in the bullet but they are usually the same size (length) as the heavier bullet therefore twist rates and accuracy is as good as the heavier bullet if that makes sense at all.


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## Blue.dog (May 8, 2005)

*"I always neck shoot, unless the buck is a wall hanger, so to speak, then I shoot behind the shoulder into the rib cage trying to get both lungs."

*Blue Dog,
WHY do you do this*??????????*

Are you concerned that you have less of a chance of having a killing shot and might lose that wall hangar???

If that is true, then aren't you saying that neck shot is a lower percentage shot???

If so, then why EVER take one???

Jammer,
Glad you asked. 98aggie hit it right on the head. If it is a buck that I might consider having mounted, I do not want to have a big hole in the deer's neck that a taxidermist will have problems with. My deer rifle is a .270 WSM. I have never had one walk away after the neck shot. So, NO, it is not a lower percentage shot. Also, they don't walk far from a shot thru the lungs.

Wish you would have answered my PM several months ago regarding all of this and I probably would not be here right now. From your post, I always assumed that you were an expert in this area.

Now, I could be wrong and if was not be you, I appoligize. I recently decided to delete all my old messages from my 2cool files and could not find who I PM'd with my question, but I thought that it was you.
B.D

*

*


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## Blue.dog (May 8, 2005)

Charlie,
Thanks for your input.
B.D


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## Brute (Apr 29, 2009)

I have been tring to find my pic of a recovered Barnes bullet from my AR. Its truely a perfect mushroom.


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## [email protected] (Jun 25, 2005)

Barnes Vor-Tx ammo is the best bullet I have ever used for deer and hogs. Complete pass through every time and it has devastating damage inside the animal. If the deer or hog doesn't drop in its tracks it doesn't make it 50 yards. When I worked at Gander Mtn. the guys that I talked to all said that it shot well out of their guns as well. I will probably never use a different bullet for hunting. I think Barnes really hit it out of the park with this bullet.


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## THE JAMMER (Aug 1, 2005)

Blue.dog said:


> *"I always neck shoot, unless the buck is a wall hanger, so to speak, then I shoot behind the shoulder into the rib cage trying to get both lungs."*
> 
> Blue Dog,
> WHY do you do this*??????????*
> ...


I've never professed to be an expert on anything except this: I will hit a 12" target more often than I will hit a 2" target.

Do you know off the top of your head, right now, how much your 270wsm bullet will drift on a 100 yd shot in a 25 mph crosswind? If you can't answer it now, you won't know it when presented with that situation in the field.

The drift is 1.44". Add that to an MOA rifle, that you can actually shoot MOA in the field without that perfect shooting range rest, and you now have a potential 2.44" error, assuming the deer remains perfectly still. YOU JUST MISSED or worse, wounded.

Not trying to be judgemental. It's just, IMHO, there are too many variables to take that type of shot. Ask any sniper what is ALWAYS
the X factor- hardest to predict- and they will always say WIND. Not only what the wind is where you are, but what it is half way to your target, and at the target. What did Bob Lee Sweiger say-"then it becomes a trig problem that you have to do in your head on the fly."

Heck even the trained military snipers don't shoot at a 2" target. Even though in the past they always took head shots, much bigger than 2", now it seems they have moved to center of mass. They like that 12" target too.

Not trying to rabble rouse. Everyone is certainly entitled to their own opinion. That just happens to be mine, for whatever it's worth.


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## craftkr (May 24, 2012)

M855 aka green tip 
62 gr 5.56 x 45 mm
Lead Core, Copper jacketed
Check out this link - http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=5.56%20green%20tip%20ammo&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CFQQtwIwAw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D5dGxRw8Jq70&ei=76kFUKjSLYiO8wSan7mBCg&usg=AFQjCNGDiDANnmkkrRl6GRJ4XY7Izn93lw&cad=rja

Buy it in bulk, it's pretty cheap. It will shoot through 1/4 steel. So it will blow through lungs etc. Works well with Hogs to, consistent performance and you don't have to worry about what you can and can't shoot.

Academy usually has it around here. 
I've bought my last batch 1000 rds loose for $419.
This is what I run for hogs, and it does the job.


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## THE JAMMER (Aug 1, 2005)

craftkr said:


> M855 aka green tip
> 62 gr 5.56 x 45 mm
> Lead Core, Copper jacketed
> Check out this link - http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...sg=AFQjCNGDiDANnmkkrRl6GRJ4XY7Izn93lw&cad=rja
> ...


DANG. That's impressive. Gotta get me some a dat. What twist is your bbl??


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## craftkr (May 24, 2012)

THE JAMMER said:


> DANG. That's impressive. Gotta get me some a dat. What twist is your bbl??


1/7 and bbl is actually 14.5 " with vortex Flash suppressor for legal reason's. Even with that short of a barrel it shoots well. It will carbon your rifle up, but that's about the only thing bad I can say. It shoots good, and this is actually surplus military rounds. They had so much when we pulled out of Iraq and they put it on the civilian market. You can find it on stripper clips, or in 20 rd boxes, cases of 20 rd boxes or the 1000 rd loose boxes.

In the video he said Winchester, but actual M855 is made by Lake City, Federal and Winchester. It's all made to military specs. I've shot all and unless your putting it in a match rifle you will be pleased. Again, this is good enough to roll a terrorist at 300 - 400 yds so deer and hogs are good.... shot placement! point of aim point of impact. One shot one kill!!!!! :birthday2:birthday2


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

53 Gr TSX neck shot close enough not to miss


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## Bottomsup (Jul 12, 2006)

Pow!


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## Blue.dog (May 8, 2005)

Jammer,
It is obvious that you know much more about shooting that I do.
That being said: you are correct.

Common sense plays as important role in shooting as does expertise.

I probably won't be hunting with 25 mph cross winds unless I am in the blind with a big, big Norther blowing though. At that point, I will be shaking from the cold and will not be able to hold anything steady.

So, common sense shows up and we decide the best shot placement for that moment.

thanks for your input.
B.D


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

I think that green tip (AP) has a hardened steel inside that does the penetrating. Not sure it has any lead anywhere. It may but dont think so..


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## craftkr (May 24, 2012)

CHARLIE said:


> I think that green tip (AP) has a hardened steel inside that does the penetrating. Not sure it has any lead anywhere. It may but dont think so..


All the ones I've used are lead core. If you can find steel core that's an extra bonus.


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## THE JAMMER (Aug 1, 2005)

Blue.dog said:


> Jammer,
> It is obvious that you know much more about shooting that I do.
> That being said: you are correct.
> 
> ...


Now that- "deciding the best shot placement for that moment"- makes more sense, or common sense as you said. I'm sorry, I thought you had said you ALWAYS neck shoot unless it was a wall hanger.

I went back through all of my PM's back to Jan 2011, and couldn't find one from you, so it must have been someone else you sent that to. I reply to 99% of the ones I get.


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## [email protected] (Jun 25, 2005)

I always shoot behind the shoulder because to me there is no reason to chance missing a deer. Just like why I tell people not to shoot ballistic tips at animals because there is always that chance that it doesn't fatally wound a deer or it doesn't leave a blood trail. Jammer knows his stuff when it comes to rifle ballistics and makes a good point about bullet drift on top of shooting moa equalling a missed shot. I think its a safer bet to shoot a bullet that will have full penetration and to shoot behind the shoulder. Oh and I looked on the internet and a lot of places were sold out of the green tip bullets but I did find a place that had it in bulk and in 20 round boxes. http://www.ammunitiondepot.com/Federal-Lake-City-5-56mm-62-Grain-XM855-p/adxm855bkb.htm


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

craftke

Well that green tip that went through the 1/4 inch plate obviously had a hardened inside (AP). Lead wouldnt have done that. I always thought the green tip was AP but maybe not. Normally AP stuff has a black tip at least the older ammo does. Maybe someone on here knows what the color for AP in the 223 stuff. Sometimes its referred to as "penetrator"


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## Bottomsup (Jul 12, 2006)

You may want to try a soft nose lead bullet on a 1/4 plate. You will be surprised what it will do.


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## craftkr (May 24, 2012)

CHARLIE said:


> craftke
> 
> Well that green tip that went through the 1/4 inch plate obviously had a hardened inside (AP). Lead wouldnt have done that. I always thought the green tip was AP but maybe not. Normally AP stuff has a black tip at least the older ammo does. Maybe someone on here knows what the color for AP in the 223 stuff. Sometimes its referred to as "penetrator"


Green tip is referred to as "penetrator" round. 
Black tip was the AP round. Those are hard to find these days. 
All the M855 green tip I have is lead core. 
For the money it's my preferred round.


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## craftkr (May 24, 2012)

craftkr said:


> Green tip is referred to as "penetrator" round.
> Black tip was the AP round. Those are hard to find these days.
> All the M855 green tip I have is lead core.
> For the money it's my preferred round.


Copied this from cheaper than dirt, this is the ammo that I use.

*"Manufacturer: *Lake City XM855CS
*Item: *AMM-223C

5.56x45mm, Lake City M855, 62 Grain SS109 Steel Penetrator Lead Core Bullet, 1000 Round Bulk Pack.

Manufactured by Lake City Army Ammunition Plant the 5.56x45mm M855 62 Grain SS109 Green Tipped Steel Penetrator Lead Core Mil-Spec ammunition is bulk packed loose 1,000 rounds in a box. This ammunition is boxer primed, sealed primer and projectile.reloadable brass cased and not packed in individual boxes because the military likes it loose. Save money by buying it in this 1,000 round loose bulk pack.

Lake City 5.56 Ammo is arguably the best 5.56 Military ammo manufactured. This is the original US Military Lake City M855 ammunition loaded with SS109 penetrator projectiles, brass cased ammo firing at 3,025 fps. This is identical to the ammo issued to the US military.

Ammunition is a non returnable item."

I believe the 3,025 fps to be out of a M16 (16 in barrel), so if your using this in an M4 configuration obviously the ballistics would be less. Just FYI.


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## Brute (Apr 29, 2009)

Not the best picture but you get the point... its either the 85gr or 110gr Barnes TSX.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

"steel penetrator" got some steel somewhere in order to do the "Penetrator" thing. Be interesting to take one apart.. Wonder if it may be on the net somewhere. I doubt it.


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## craftkr (May 24, 2012)

CHARLIE said:


> "steel penetrator" got some steel somewhere in order to do the "Penetrator" thing. Be interesting to take one apart.. Wonder if it may be on the net somewhere. I doubt it.


Started doing some research and the M855 round was always lead core, but apparently the ARMY did some testing and changed the projectile. Supposedly copper jacket stayed the same but they incorporated some steel to it. I also found some information of bismuth? Interesting. I might pull one apart tonight and try cutting it and see for myself. I know the steel core core 7.62/.308 for the belt fed weapons was some good stuff.


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## mudcatz71 (Jun 8, 2006)

Do you really pick off that many more pigs with a AR than you would with a bolt gun.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

I think not but the black guns are the rage now so let em have their fun..


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## craftkr (May 24, 2012)

mudcatz71 said:


> Do you really pick off that many more pigs with a AR than you would with a bolt gun.


Yes.

And the rounds are cheaper. Hard to get a double drop but you can do it. Once you shoot your first round it's more of tactical shooting..... Allot of variables that come into play but yes I can. But I still like bolt guns. But piggys are quick!!!!!!

And feral hogs aren't exactly hunters or farmers best friend. The more you drop the better.


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## Brute (Apr 29, 2009)

mudcatz71 said:


> Do you really pick off that many more pigs with a AR than you would with a bolt gun.


It makes it a lot easier because you can keep your eye on the target and move with them.


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## Blue.dog (May 8, 2005)

I loaded up my 12 gauge semi-auto browning once with 00 buckshot.
Climbed into my tripod 12 feet up.
Here come the pigs.

Got the first one, missed on the next 4 shots.

Those little buggers are fast and they don't run in a straight line.

If you have a very large field, perhaps you can get more with an AR.
It would be fun trying.
B.D


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## mudcatz71 (Jun 8, 2006)

CHARLIE said:


> I think not but the black guns are the rage now so let em have their fun..


If its about the fun of shooting a Semi auto into a group of pigs i'd use tracers.


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## jimtexas68 (May 13, 2012)

Brute said:


> I got video of a double. We also use a red magnalight to spotlight grain fields... I have had quite a few 4 and 5 groups... Lots of 2s and 3s.


I shot 3 hogs with 2 bullets out of a bolt gun (.308) just last month. I second the motion that yes, it can be done.


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## spurgersalty (Jun 29, 2010)

jimtexas68 said:


> I shot 3 hogs with 2 bullets out of a bolt gun (.308) just last month. I second the motion that yes, it can be done.


I'll 3rd, I put 3 piggies down with 4 shots within 10 yards with my trusty 336c. Forgive for the extra shot, but, a gun blast in a stand isn't something I'm used to.


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## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Amazing, all this when a question regarding what bullet to shoot. ha..


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## Blue.dog (May 8, 2005)

Charlie,

It is OK.

I know more now than i did when i started the thread.

Which is good for me.

B.D


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## Bukmstr (Nov 12, 2004)

*Fusion*

Not sure if it has been brought up yet or not, but I was in Academy the other day and found new boxes of .223 62 grn Federal Fusion Ammo. I believe that is a bonded bullet as well. Just FYI...


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## Redfishr (Jul 26, 2004)

Barnes anything or a similar constructed bullet.


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## craftkr (May 24, 2012)

On any shooting, finding a consistent round will really enable you to dial in your technique. Basic shooting fundamentals go along way, once you get dialed in and know your equipment and abilities shot placement can actually be fun. 

I didn't mean to throw anyone off mentioning the M855 ammo, for the price you get a pretty hard hitting round for 5.56 and it's consistent. Now if you’re really into it and want to spend the money there's all kinds of ammo out there. But if you’re that ate up with it you will start loading your own to have the most consistent rounds.


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## sand storm (Mar 15, 2012)

Your ar will shoot heavier bullets......I hunt with my Stag arms AR....shoot 64gr. Winchester power points both on hogs and deer....work fine. Just pick your shots and its deadly. I know.....done it a bunch.


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## NOCREEK (Jan 18, 2012)

This strictly from experiance and on the ground results. My 12 yr. old daughter has shot a .223 since she was 9 and I have always just had her use the Rem 55 gr. cor-lok soft point. She's = 1 neck shot down, 4 lung shots all pass thru, short run, lots of blood and the big deer in the "Braggin on daughter Again "thread was a front shot just below the neck 70 yds, no exit but short run and down. She wants to move up to a .243 next year just for a little more margin of error? Just my experiance. I think pass-thru pennatration is the most important thing day in and day out, you always have your exceptions but a blood trail is everything!


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## cgerace19 (Jul 17, 2008)

To the OP...

Why not take your deer rifle to the stand and shoot hogs with that? Just curious.

ARs seem like a lot of fun, but I have met so many people who justify getting an AR as hog gun. Outside of deer season, sure, why not use something a bit more enjoyable to shoot. But during deer season, 2 guns in the stand?!? Don't get it...


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## Brute (Apr 29, 2009)

cgerace19 said:


> To the OP...
> 
> Why not take your deer rifle to the stand and shoot hogs with that? Just curious.
> 
> ARs seem like a lot of fun, but I have met so many people who justify getting an AR as hog gun. Outside of deer season, sure, why not use something a bit more enjoyable to shoot. But during deer season, 2 guns in the stand?!? Don't get it...


Why not deer hunt and hog hunt with the AR? I agree two guns is not necessary.


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## caddis (Jan 22, 2012)

Wow, a long thread. I'm not sure if this has been covered.
I have a 22-250 so I don't know if the same load is available in 223.
The Trophy Bonded Bear Claw is loaded in I think a 55 or 60gr and it blows through deer as well as hogs up to 300lbs I've shot behind the shoulder.

I've messed around on does with 55gr BT's and they don't always exit, but you might as well through the front half of the deer away. They usually only go about 30 yards.

A ranch I used to hunt culled all their extra MLD with 22 mag.


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## caddis (Jan 22, 2012)

Well, it looks like Speer discontinued the TBBC in 55gr, bummer, Barnes would be next best IMO.


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## wampuscat (Jun 30, 2009)

CHARLIE said:


> craftke
> 
> Well that green tip that went through the 1/4 inch plate obviously had a hardened inside (AP). Lead wouldnt have done that. I always thought the green tip was AP but maybe not. Normally AP stuff has a black tip at least the older ammo does. Maybe someone on here knows what the color for AP in the 223 stuff. Sometimes its referred to as "penetrator"


 Any bullet, even thin jacketed BT, at 220 S or 22-250 speeds will go right through 1/4 inch plate, leaving a nice hole. Some metal targets will not even fall when shot with a fast 22, it will go right through.


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## wampuscat (Jun 30, 2009)

I will never shoot another barnes bullet, solid or other wise. Plenty of more accurate bullets that will not destroy your barrel. Maybe at the slower speeds of the 223 the might not do much damage. but at fast speeds such as a 220 or 22-250 they are hard on the barrel. No amount of cleaning after trying the barnes X in one of my swifts would bring the barrel back. Though it would be great to have a bullet that wouldn't come apart at high speeds, but couldn't get em to shoot as well as other bullets, and had to get rid of the gun after shooting them. I believe they are too hard for bullet speeds approaching 4,000 fps.


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