# Where do you draw the line?



## Fish&Chips (Jan 27, 2012)

I read on another post where a family would not allow a blood transfusion to save their child's life because it was against their religion, and the child died. How could that be God's will? Does the bible prohibit blood transfusions?


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## DA REEL DADDY (Jun 7, 2005)

Good question.

I think if the good Lord gave man the wisdom to save lives then we should. If a Doctor has the wisdom to help, heal, combat a disease or illness, then he should. So be it. Help thy neighbor.

There should always be Faith, especially under treatment. 

I don't want to change this thread, but wisdom can also be used for wrong doings, then it is evil.

My .02 cents.

Good thread Fish.


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## finkikin (Jul 8, 2011)

Fish&Chips said:


> I read on another post where a family *would not allow a blood transfusion to save their child's life because it was against their religion, and the child died. *How could that be God's will? Does the bible prohibit blood transfusions?


I call that murder...


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## Orion85 (Apr 11, 2013)

^^so you think signing a DNR order is suicide?

More murders have been committed in he name off religion than any other cause, especially by those that believe "thou shalt not kill". Not saying this is murder, it's not my place to say.

This coming from a type 1 diabetic, diagnosed when I was 8. So without treatment I would have died 20 years ago. 

My daughter would be treated regardless of religion.


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

finkikin said:


> I call that murder...


My opinion on the subject and your opinion on the subject do not really matter. The only thing that matters is what is stated in God's word the bible. That is why many that claim to be Christians are not at all. They want to pick and choose what they will or will not obey.

I found the title of the thread interesting, where do you draw the line. You cannot draw the line on God's word, either you obey or you don't. If you choose not to obey one part, why obey any of it? To obey you must have accurate knowledge, most do not want to do the research to come to that accurate knowledge.

Nobody wants to die, or wants their loved ones to die.


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## Fish&Chips (Jan 27, 2012)

Orion85 said:


> More murders have been committed in he name off religion than any other cause, especially by those that believe "thou shalt not kill". Not saying this is murder, it's not my place to say.


I see this quoted alot, but I just don't buy into it.


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## Fish&Chips (Jan 27, 2012)

shaggydog said:


> My opinion on the subject and your opinion on the subject do not really matter. The only thing that matters is what is stated in God's word the bible. That is why many that claim to be Christians are not at all. They want to pick and choose what they will or will not obey.
> 
> I found the title of the thread interesting, where do you draw the line. You cannot draw the line on God's word, either you obey or you don't. If you choose not to obey one part, why obey any of it? To obey you must have accurate knowledge, most do not want to do the research to come to that accurate knowledge.
> 
> Nobody wants to die, or wants their loved ones to die.


So you believe blood transfusions are unbiblical? Do they go against God's word?


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

Genesis 9:3-6, New International Version . 3Â Every moving animal that is alive may serve as food for YOU. As in the case of green vegetation, I do give it all to YOU. 4Â Only flesh with its soulâ€”its bloodâ€”YOU must not eat. 5Â And, besides that, YOUR blood of YOUR souls shall I ask back. From the hand of every living creature shall I ask it back; and from the hand of man, from the hand of each one who is his brother, shall I ask back the soul of man. 6Â Anyone shedding manâ€™s blood, by man will his own blood be shed, for in Godâ€™s image he made man.

The blood belongs only to God.

Leviticus 17: 10,11 King James version10 And whatsoever man there be of the house of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn among you, that eateth any manner of blood; I will even set my face against that soul that eateth blood, and will cut him off from among his people.
11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

God explained how a dead animal should be handled after they are killed at Leviticus 17: 13,14 King James version And whatsoever man there be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn among you, which hunteth and catcheth any beast or fowl that may be eaten; he shall even pour out the blood thereof, and cover it with dust.
14 For it is the life of all flesh; the blood of it is for the life thereof: therefore I said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall eat the blood of no manner of flesh: for the life of all flesh is the blood thereof: whosoever eateth it shall be cut off.

Deuteronomy 15:23 Only its blood you must not eat. Upon the earth you should pour it out as water.

Leviticus 7:27 Any soul who eats any blood, that soul must be cut off from his people.â€™â€

Acts 15:19,20 â€™ 19Â Hence my decision is not to trouble those from the nations who are turning to God, 20Â but to write them to abstain from things polluted by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood.

Acts 15:28,29 For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to YOU, except these necessary things, 29Â to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication. If YOU carefully keep yourselves from these things, YOU will prosper. Good health to YOU!â€

For those that say well this is talking about eating blood, it refers to taking in blood in any form. Think of it like this. If a doctor tells you, â€œyou must quit drinking alcoholâ€, would that mean that you only had to stop drinking it, so it would be alright to to take it in through an IV. I don't think so.

God's word on blood is very clear.


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## tngbmt (May 30, 2004)

Matt 7:1-3

i pray that no one should ever have to make such a difficult decision. i would pray for the parent .. it is much more difficult to go on living knowing you had to make such decision, even with absolute trust in God. do yo think they didn't love their child? even knowing she's in a better place, trusting God's plan .. such pain.


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## stdreb27 (Aug 15, 2011)

Fish&Chips said:


> I see this quoted alot, but I just don't buy into it.


Well the Indians I'm Mexico slaughtered people on sacrifice for centuries.


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

tngbmt said:


> Matt 7:1-3
> 
> i pray that no one should ever have to make such a difficult decision. i would pray for the parent .. it is much more difficult to go on living knowing you had to make such decision, even with absolute trust in God. do yo think they didn't love their child? even knowing she's in a better place, trusting God's plan .. such pain.


The absolute trust in God is the only way a decision like that can be made. It would not be hard to make a decision for myself but for a loved one it would be extremely hard.

God promises a resurrection and the opportunity for everlasting life. Those that have to make those decisions look intently into God's words and promises. Revelation 21:3,4 tells us that all the things that bring strife and unhappiness to our lives now will be done away with, death will be done away with, and we will have the opportunity for everlasting life.

Ones that have to make that most difficult decision know, without a doubt that they will see her, right here on earth and will live the real life, in a paradise. It was God's original purpose and it has never changed. It is His promise.


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## DA REEL DADDY (Jun 7, 2005)

stdreb27 said:


> Well the Indians I'm Mexico slaughtered people on sacrifice for centuries.


If we are thinking about the same thing, those Indians were Aztecs and Mayans who worshiped the moon, stars, and sun, hence Pagan worship.


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## DA REEL DADDY (Jun 7, 2005)

No need to Sacrifice an unblemished Lamb for atonement. Jesus is died for sins and is now our savior.

_Acts 15:19,20 â€™ 19 Hence my decision is not to trouble those from the nations who are turning to God, *20 but to write them to abstain from things polluted by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood.*_

ALL WARNING OF PAGAN WAYS. IMO Acts: 15:20 is regarding the barbaric consumption of meat and blood.

*For those that say well this is talking about eating blood, it refers to taking in blood in any form. Think of it like this. If a doctor tells you, â€œyou must quit drinking alcoholâ€, would that mean that you only had to stop drinking it, so it would be alright to take it in through an IV. I don't think so.*

I agree with your parallel, but alcohol can still be used as medical purposes and not for indulging even after forbidden by the Doctor to stay clear.

The Old Testament has a lot of laws and traditions that were used prior to Jesus and his Apostles showing us The Way in The New Testament. Example, when they were going to stone the wife for adultery, "He who is without sin cast the first stone" and Peter's vision of animals in Acts that were forbidden to be eated by Jews, but was allowed by the Gentiles for consumption.

My .02 cents.


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## DA REEL DADDY (Jun 7, 2005)

*Correction*

Good question.

I think if the good Lord gave man the wisdom to save lives then we should. If a Doctor has the wisdom to help, heal, combat a disease or illness, then he should. So be it. Help thy neighbor.

There should always be Faith, especially under treatment.

I don't want to change this thread, but INTELLIGENCE without WISDOM can also be used for wrong doings and evil.

My .02 cents.

Good thread Fish.


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

DA REEL DADDY said:


> No need to Sacrifice an unblemished Lamb for atonement. Jesus is died for sins and is now our savior.
> 
> _Acts 15:19,20 â€™ 19 Hence my decision is not to trouble those from the nations who are turning to God, *20 but to write them to abstain from things polluted by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood.*_
> 
> ...


Referring to alcohol was just an illustration. I was asked if blood transfusions were forbidden in scripture. I answered the question with the scriptures. I think they are pretty clear.

Again our personal opinion on whether blood transfusions are right or wrong or whether anything that can be used to save lives should, doesn't matter to a man of God. God has the final say. Weighty decisions are sometimes hard to make, that is why we should not rely on our own understanding. True Christians should always get God's thoughts on matters before a life changing decision is made. I will try my best to do what is right in God's eyes, what man thinks is not important.

By the way, many people have lost their physical lives, spiritual also, because they opted for a blood transfusion. The medical community has made great strides concerning bloodless surgery. More and more people, not just Jehovah's Witnesses, are opting for bloodless surgery because it is much safer. Many, many diseases are carried by the blood. God's word is a always a protection.


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## DA REEL DADDY (Jun 7, 2005)

_


shaggydog said:



Referring to alcohol was just an illustration. I was asked if blood transfusions were forbidden in scripture. I answered the question with the scriptures. I think they are pretty clear.

Click to expand...

_


shaggydog said:


> _Again our personal opinion on whether blood transfusions are right or wrong or whether anything that can be used to save lives should, doesn't matter to a man of God. God has the final say. Weighty decisions are sometimes hard to make, that is why we should not rely on our own understanding. True Christians should always get God's thoughts on matters before a life changing decision is made. I will try my best to do what is right in God's eyes, what man thinks is not important._
> 
> _By the way, many people have lost their physical lives, *spiritual also*, because they opted for a blood transfusion. The medical community has made great strides concerning bloodless surgery. More and more people, not just Jehovah's Witnesses, are opting for bloodless surgery because it is much safer. Many, many diseases are carried by the blood. God's word is a always a protection._


Just of curiosity? You have witnessed a patient who has lost their Spiritual life from a blood transfusion?

If so, please explain?

Also, if a Christian goes to the blood drive and donates blood is he or she committing a sin?

If so are they damned?

If a mother has a premature baby and the baby needs a blood transfusion and the Uncle donates the pint of blood for the transfusion is the mother and Uncle damned?

Like I said just curious?


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## atcfisherman (Oct 5, 2006)

shaggydog said:


> For those that say well this is talking about eating blood, *it refers to taking in blood in any form.* Think of it like this. If a doctor tells you, â€œyou must quit drinking alcoholâ€, would that mean that you only had to stop drinking it, so it would be alright to to take it in through an IV. I don't think so.
> 
> God's word on blood is very clear.


Shaggy,

Yes, God's word is very clear on blood.  But your opinion or should I say, the opinion of the JW's is it refers to any form. The scriptures are clear what it's talking about and it doesn't say anything about a transfusion. 

The JW hand pick certain scriptures and build their doctorines on them and those scriptures are from corrupt scriptures at that. I've sat around long enough. It's time to do battle and let God's true word be clear, not from some twisted organization from a group that rewrote their bible in 1961. I have studied them, I've seen how they are and I challenge all other christians to study them and see their flaws.

This is not a personal attack on you shaggy. You mean well. However I can't sit and watch while the bible is being twisted.


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## stdreb27 (Aug 15, 2011)

DA REEL DADDY said:


> If we are thinking about the same thing, those Indians were Aztecs and Mayans who worshiped the moon, stars, and sun, hence Pagan worship.


Just offering an alternate, interpretation to the copout that claims organized religion killed more people than anyone else...


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

atcfisherman said:


> Shaggy,
> 
> Yes, God's word is very clear on blood.  But your opinion or should I say, the opinion of the JW's is it refers to any form. The scriptures are clear what it's talking about and it doesn't say anything about a transfusion.
> 
> ...


You are very misguided. Jesus and his followers were persecuted while on earth and persecution for true Christians will not cease. There is nothing twisted in the scriptures or their interpertation. I can only relate what is stated in the scriptures, I have done that and I will continue to do that. Everyone questions, but no one gives scriptural evidence that states otherwise. In the end, whenever it comes, and it will come, all will know who brings the destruction. The word was preached by Noah and his family, and people took no note. The same is happening today. When the water, so to speak, is rising, it will be to late. Always remember, God wants everyone to be saved. I would love to see that also, but the scriptures are very clear that narrow is the gate leading to everlasting life, but broad is the road leading to destruction.


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## Fish&Chips (Jan 27, 2012)

DA REEL DADDY said:


> Good question.
> 
> I think if the good Lord gave man the wisdom to save lives then we should. If a Doctor has the wisdom to help, heal, combat a disease or illness, then he should. So be it. Help thy neighbor.
> 
> ...


Exactly DA REEL DADDY. And also, I could not allow my child to go thru this, all the while knowing that the doctors could save her.

It's like praying to God to heal your child and God's answer is the doctors who are able to make her well.


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## atcfisherman (Oct 5, 2006)

Shaggy,

Your scripture references are from the New World Translations which was derived from the JW watch tower society in 1961. You refuse to use the original King James Bible and when someone does post a scripture, you try to use another scripture to back your point, this side stepping the original scripture. 

Lets try this and watch you dodge it. 

1 Timothy 3:16
King James Version (KJV)
16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

It clearly states God was manifested in the flesh. Now address this scripture only and without using the corrupted New World Translation that came about in 1961 by the JW. You will either say the truth is being attacked or you will dodge the clear scripture. 


In Christ Alone I Place My Trust


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## atcfisherman (Oct 5, 2006)

Here is another one that you will either dodge, use the JW translation or say the JW truth is being attacked. This is from the original King James Bible. 

1 John 3:16
King James Version (KJV)
16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

Jesus laid down his life for us. Yet the above scripture says God laid down his life for us. How can that be Shaggy if they are not one in the same? Remember, I challenge you to focus on this scripture and not dodge it. 


In Christ Alone I Place My Trust


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

I have referenced scriptures before on God and Jesus being 2 separate entities. The scriptures are clear on that, search the threads. Jesus himself said God was greater than the Son (Jesus). In the original scriptures God's name was used more than 7,000 times, why was it removed, except for one or two references. Just because the King James version has been around for a long time, it doesn't mean the interpretation is correct. Look at John 1:18, this is quoted from the King James version 18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Looks like the King James version contradicts itself. That shows that both of the scriptures you referred to, 1Timothy 3:16 and 1 John 3:16 have been interpreted wrong. Jesus walked the earth, not God.


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## Mrschasintail (Dec 8, 2004)

Well, I guess if this scenario happened to me, I'll be in hell. Something tells me I'll have alot of good company. To each their own. "It takes all kinds of kinds"


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## atcfisherman (Oct 5, 2006)

Shaggy,

Again you refuse to address the clear scripture that was shown. Here is another one. 

John 1
King James Version (KJV)
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

This verse is clear, but the JWs say it is not right and insert their own words using their 1961 bible. 


In Christ Alone I Place My Trust


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## atcfisherman (Oct 5, 2006)

A Comparison of the Bible and the Deceptive New World Translation

The Holy Bible
John 1:1 â€" "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God."

This is a clear declaration that Jesus (the Word) is God.

The Deceptive New World Translation
John 1:1 â€" "In the beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god."

This change was made to support the Jehovah's Witnesses denial that Jesus is God.

The Holy Bible
Colossians 1:16 â€" "For by him [Jesus] were all things created ... all things were created by him and for him."

This teaches that Jesus is the Creator of all, and is not a created being himself.

The Deceptive New World Translation
Colossians 1:16 â€" "because by means of him all [other] things were created ... All [other] things have been created through him and for him."

The word "other" has been wrongly added to support the Jehovah's Witnesses false teaching that Jesus himself is a created angel. (1955)

The Holy Bible
Hebrews 1:8 â€" "But about the Son he says, 'Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever."

Note here that God the Father calls Jesus the Son, "God."

The Deceptive New World Translation
Hebrews 1:8 â€" "But with reference to the Son: "God is your throne forever and ever..."

The order of the words has been wrongly changed by the Jehovah's Witness organization to hide the fact that Jesus, (the Son) is called God.

In Christ Alone I Place My Trust


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## atcfisherman (Oct 5, 2006)

Unfortunately mans pride gets in his way because he doesn't want to admit he has been led astray by corrupt new teachings. Jesus even warned about these false teaching coming in the last days. 


In Christ Alone I Place My Trust


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

atc if you want to know the truth about the witnesses go to jw.org. You continue to go to apostate websites that do nothing but promote lies. I do know your motives, you made them clear after you pmed me wanting information. You should know what the scriptures say about those deceiving.


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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

Talk about avoiding and evading. I quoted 1 John directly from the King James version, here let me do it again, 18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Not only does it declare that no man has seen God at any time, it correctly shows that the only begotten Son (Jesus) declared him. The scripture clearly refers to two different entities. How can you twist that?


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