# 45-70 Loads



## bountyhunter (Jul 6, 2005)

Finally got everything together to start building my first test loads for my new Marlin 1895 Cowboy.

Finished up the first set of test loads, just have to wait for the rain to clear out to hit the range......


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## Pocketfisherman (May 30, 2005)

Please post up the results.


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## bountyhunter (Jul 6, 2005)

Pocketfisherman said:


> Please post up the results.


Will do, I'll keep this thread updated as I work through these tests.

BTW the rifle is a Marlin 1895CB (Cowboy) with a 26" Barrel with Ballard Rifling.

The bullets are Missouri Bullets #2 Buffalo 300gr RNFP that are .459".


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## THE JAMMER (Aug 1, 2005)

Those are great bullets. I have some data on the hornady FTX's which is pretty good. I'll get that to you when I have a chance. 45-70 is one of my faves. I have 4 of them: 1885 winchester high wall replica; shiloh sharps 73 replica; marlin 1895 lever; original springfield 1873 carbine (built two years after Custer, but served with the 7th cavalry in 1879. I shoot black powder loads in that mammajamma, and it is a blast. makes you want to sound charge with your trumpet.

Love em all. Are you using the Marlin 1895 reloading data?? didn't know if the cowboy was as strong as the 1895. Should be able to get some great ballistics if you are: 300-325 gr at 2000 fps+.

Anxious to see your results.


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## bountyhunter (Jul 6, 2005)

THE JAMMER said:


> Those are great bullets. I have some data on the hornady FTX's which is pretty good. I'll get that to you when I have a chance. 45-70 is one of my faves. I have 4 of them: 1885 winchester high wall replica; shiloh sharps 73 replica; marlin 1895 lever; original springfield 1873 carbine (built two years after Custer, but served with the 7th cavalry in 1879. I shoot black powder loads in that mammajamma, and it is a blast. makes you want to sound charge with your trumpet.
> 
> Love em all. Are you using the Marlin 1895 reloading data?? didn't know if the cowboy was as strong as the 1895. Should be able to get some great ballistics if you are: 300-325 gr at 2000 fps+.
> 
> Anxious to see your results.


Yes the Cowboy is just a strong as the others and with the longer barrel I can shoot a reduced load and still get the same FPS as the shorter guns so that means a lot less recoil. I'm looking at 1600-1700 out of these loads, don't want to go too hot with cast lead without gas checks. They should be mild on one end and still stop everything walking in TX on the other end.

I have been studying some on the new Barnes 250 grain bullets and it looks like I should be able to get 2300+ with them maybe 2500 but I don't know that I want that kind of recoil.....LOL

Didn't get off work in time to hit the range today, so it looks like it is going to be Friday, will keep y'all posted.


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## Pocketfisherman (May 30, 2005)

One of the most accurate bullets I've found in my Cowboy Limited is the old Remington Jacked soft point 405 grains. 2" at 100 yds or slightly better.


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## bountyhunter (Jul 6, 2005)

Pocketfisherman said:


> One of the most accurate bullets I've found in my Cowboy Limited is the old Remington Jacked soft point 405 grains. 2" at 100 yds or slightly better.


Yes I shot one heck of a group with the 405g Remington Factory loads (once I get the sights adjusted).


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## Pocketfisherman (May 30, 2005)

I'm just using the bullet, but it's not a factory load. I'd have to pull out my archive logbook to find the load data as I have not made up a batch in over 5 years. I know the powder was 4898 with Starline brass and Winchester large rifle primer. It was on the thumper side of strong, but less than 35000 cup per the load data as I don't exceed that in my rifle.


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## bountyhunter (Jul 6, 2005)

I'm really trying to stay away from any of the thumper loads due to my bad shoulder. It can handle 12ga with bird shot without too much problems, so I'd really like to keep my loads close to that type of recoil if possible. Though a little hotter won't be too bad as I won't be shooting too many shots in one outing.


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## THE JAMMER (Aug 1, 2005)

45-70 is one of the most misunderstood and erroneously maligned caliber ever. That is mostly because of the fact that factory ammo has to be loaded no hotter than what would work in an original 1873 springfield, because there are a lot of those out there. Granted that is pretty anemic.

With stronger guns, however, Ruger #1, shiloh sharps, 1885 high wall replicas, it can be loaded, safely to within about 2-300 fps of a 458 winmag. When you're talking 300-350 gr bullets at 2300 fps+ you're talking 375 h&h mag. Cape buffalo city. The marlin cowboy gun in this post and the 1895 marlin can be loaded just a bit less than the above. Certainly enough for anything on this continent.

It is always referred to as having a rainbow trajectory. I can load hornady250 gr mono flex bullets (bc only .175) to 2300 fps, and sight it in for 2" high at 100, which will put it dead on at 150, and 4.96" low at 200 and will hit at 200 with just under 1500 ft lbs. That's elk city out to 200 yards shooting almost dead on all the way out. Is it a 7mm-08? No, but that's no rainbow.


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## bountyhunter (Jul 6, 2005)

You are absolutely right the can really be loaded up with the modern guns. I do most of my huntin in East TX so not too many chances at shots over 100 yards. What I'm looking for is something that I can aim dead on from 0-100 yards so I don't have to think too much as you also don't have a lot of time to get a shot off. 

I'm hoping I'm at least in the ball park with these loads and the biggest thing we got up there is Bigfoot, so I think I've got it covered......LOL

I'm also going to be building some loads with 405g cast leads with gas checks so I can pump them up some for that same dead on aiming from 0-100, just in case I get to hunt something a bit bigger. I still go home to hunt in Virginia from time to time and they would be great if I run across a bear.


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## THE JAMMER (Aug 1, 2005)

bountyhunter said:


> You are absolutely right the can really be loaded up with the modern guns. I do most of my huntin in East TX so not too many chances at shots over 100 yards. What I'm looking for is something that I can aim dead on from 0-100 yards so I don't have to think too much as you also don't have a lot of time to get a shot off.
> 
> I'm hoping I'm at least in the ball park with these loads and the biggest thing we got up there is Bigfoot, so I think I've got it covered......LOL
> 
> I'm also going to be building some loads with 405g cast leads with gas checks so I can pump them up some for that same dead on aiming from 0-100, just in case I get to hunt something a bit bigger. I still go home to hunt in Virginia from time to time and they would be great if I run across a bear.


bountyhunter, from your avatar looks like you are a 3 fingers under recurve shooter like I am. Is that right. Which bows do you shoot? I have a bob lee, sky bow, and and old DAn quillian that I am trying to sell. 65#er. Plus about 5-6 longbows. You know what they say about guns and bows, If you know exactly how many you have, you don't have enough.


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## bountyhunter (Jul 6, 2005)

THE JAMMER said:


> bountyhunter, from your avatar looks like you are a 3 fingers under recurve shooter like I am. Is that right. Which bows do you shoot? I have a bob lee, sky bow, and and old DAn quillian that I am trying to sell. 65#er. Plus about 5-6 longbows. You know what they say about guns and bows, If you know exactly how many you have, you don't have enough.


Three under, but I'm a longbow man. I shoot a Sarrels Superstition and Weaver Selfbow mostly but I've got a wall full of them. Kind of like guns you can't have too many....


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## Pocketfisherman (May 30, 2005)

Bearthooth bullets has some really nice hardcast with gas check options and good load data there too for the bullets. http://beartoothbullets.com/open_sight/archive_open_sight.htm/21

data:
http://www.loadswap.com/login.php

Once you get in, go here to find the 45-70 data so you don't have to scan through all the pages: http://www.loadswap.com/display.php?action=view_weight&cartridge_id=98&table=Rifle_Data


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## bountyhunter (Jul 6, 2005)

Well it was one of those days when I just wasn't shooting as well as I normally do. Drank a little more coffee than normal this morning and I think that had a lot to do with it. Here are the targets for each of the loads. Everything was shot at 50yds with open sights. I did get just a little leading in the last 2 inches or so of the barrel so it looks like I'll need some gas checks for these if I'm going to keep pushing them this fast. The recoil was right were I want it also, can shoot these without any pain at all.


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## THE JAMMER (Aug 1, 2005)

My best powders for 45-70 have been: imr 4198, imr 4064, and rl 7. Even though I don't shoot any of my 45-70's with scopes, I try to put some scope on the gun when I'm working up loads, trying to take as much of the "me factor" out of the equation as possible. Then when I get the best load, I note where it hits compared to some load I choose as a base load, then take the scope off and go for it.

Have not done much work with lead and smokeless powder- only lead with black powder cartridge silhouette stuff. It's amazing what those things will do. I remember one day at Carters I was shooting my shiloh sharps with black powder loads and a vernier sight-- 5 shots into 1.1" They will definitely shoot better than I can, but some days the magic works.

by the way my longbows are a monarch, Dick Robertson (gorgeous), a John Strunk yew wood self bow with rattlesnake skin backing, a Marius Jaguar (friend of mine in New Mexico). If you know anyone looking for a heavy (64 # @ 27") longbow, the robertson is for sale.


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## bountyhunter (Jul 6, 2005)

When I bought this rifle it had a scope on it and I took it off and sold it and the mounts. I did wish I had it on when testing these loads as my old eyes aren't what the use to be. Might have to get one just for working up loads, like you said.

Post your bow in the classifies on Texasbowhunter.com, there is a big group of traditionals shooters over there and I'm sure one would snatch it up.


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## bountyhunter (Jul 6, 2005)

Missouri Bullets - #2 Buffalo 300 grain RNFP
Remington Cases
Remington 9 1/2M Primers
46 grains IMR-3031

Loaded up some this morning and still know Zombies, so I decided to got to the range and kill some paper. There was a waiting line at the 50 yard range so I said what the heck and decided to shoot at 100. I put one of the black sticky targets up so I'd have something better to aim at as the orange didn't really stand out on the white target. I might have had a better group with a smaller rear aperture but I like this one for hunting. With the exception of the one out side the black, I'm happy with the results. Oh and it is a good thing for the Zombies they never showed.......


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## Pocketfisherman (May 30, 2005)

I'd take that IMR recipe and start playing with bullet seating length now.


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## bountyhunter (Jul 6, 2005)

Pocketfisherman said:


> I'd take that IMR recipe and start playing with bullet seating length now.


Did that last night, though there isn't a lot of room because of the crimp grove on these bullets. I also have switched to a Lee Factory Crimp Die to see if it improves anything over the standard roll crimp. Will let you know when I get to the range next.


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