# I Cant Take It Any More



## haparks (Apr 12, 2006)

i said i would start hitch hiking to work when deisal reached 3 dollars a gallon ---well i just pumped $4.10 a gallon deisal yesterday and im done--stick a fork in me im done-

-my father in law has been running his deisal truck for months now on used cooking oil--yes used cooking oil--not bio diesal --used cooking oil--he is now on a mixture of 4 to 1------4 parts cooking oil to 1 part deisal--im gonna start 50/50 then slowly increase to his mixture--

i have had it --when the vice pres of valero made 15 million not in cluding bonuses--something wrong with this picture--i know for a fact he does not work as hard as i do--

i have 2 eating establisments that have said i can have all the grease i want---im in--i cant take it any more--

it took over a 100 dollars to fill my tank the other day--im ****** sorry for the rant--but ive had it-- im one of those folks on 2cool who love positive--kind--informative--non argumentative discusstions--i know i have just broken my own rule--but im toast--cooked-- burnt--well done roasted--

i hope there are others out there who have deisal boats--deisal cars--and deisal trucks-- who can also enjoy the savings i am fixin to realise with the use of used cooking oil:flag: :texasflag :cheers:


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## Boogie1 (Mar 13, 2007)

Can't imagine how good a traffic jam would smell if everyone with diesel would start doing that.


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## Roby (Jul 12, 2005)

Buy a Honda civic


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## SpecklFinAddict (Dec 19, 2004)

Boogie1 said:


> Can't imagine how good a traffic jam would smell if everyone with diesel would start doing that.


Like a big ole order of McD's fries!


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## Fuelin (Jun 21, 2005)

*I feel ya*

I feel ya. I have a 36 gallon tank. I filled up Friday @ 3.98 per gallon. That over 140.00. It's a shame that the wife and I can go have a nice dinner at Ruths Chris Steakhouse cheaper than I can fill up my dodge with diesel.


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## bowed up (Apr 1, 2007)

i'm with ya
32 gallons of diesel, case of beer, bag of ice and a bag of chips was like 150 bucks
its killin the poor man


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## Animal Chris (May 21, 2004)

And our fine government, being sensitive to our plight, are talking (but not too loudly) about raising the fuel tax.


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## Mrs Backlasher (Dec 19, 2004)

Used cooking oil? Will that work? Will it ruin your motor or gunk up your fuel line

They tell me it will gunk up my veins and arteries. ~ Mrs. B


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## jnjplus6 (May 25, 2007)

Not trying to step on toes here, but "I feel your pain"...Drive a chevy suburban 4x4. While I don't consider Jimmy and myself anything above lower middle class...these gas prices are killing us too. Thankfully, I work from home and literally can work in my pj's and chill out at home...Jimmy drives a mini van to work, but work is about 45 miles from the house. We found the closest rent house to Brenham was in Sealy. We have to have a large vehicle to haul the kids (6) around. When I filled up Saturday, it cost $96.00!!! I don't usually go anywhere...I hate to shop at walmart and the little store in town is priced really high, would love to drive to Katy to go to HEB, but frankly, I have to plan the trip and have to be going to Katy for other reasons than to go to HEB. 
So what options do we have? Okay, the diesels have the veggie oil option, but what are the fuel options for the unleaded gogo juice? 

This situation has us back to living paycheck to paycheck and it sucks! How can we make a point not only to our "sensitive" government, but to those who are rolling in dough at the oil companies? If this keeps going for much longer, I foresee a lot of us in the DHS office begging for food stamps...and probably being denied. This situation is screwing up the American dream, our faith in our nation, and stressing many out so bad that we have to figure out what bills we can put off just to have enough gas money to go to work and hopefully pay the bill that was put off last week, but will there be enough money left over for gas to get to work the rest of the week? 

I'm truly greatful that both my vehicles and boat are paid for...or we'd really be up a creek.


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## PasadenaMan (Dec 5, 2007)

Be sure your filter your waste veggie oil at least down to 5 microns.


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## dash8dvr (Jun 6, 2006)

A couple years ago I swallowed my pride and bought a 4 cylinder corolla and parked my V10 dodge in the driveway. I only use my truck for fishing/hunting/towing now. What I save in gas has more than paid for the additional car/insurance every month.


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## Reel-tor (May 21, 2004)

The only immediate option for gasoline is ethanol. However, our POLITICIANS have fixed it so that ethanol that is imported is TAXED to protect domestic ethanol which is TAX SUBSIDIZED. 

Which brings us to the "real" reason our fuel prices are out of whack. Folks, it's not the oil companies. Its the POLITICIANS. They have ruined the value of the dollar. Since oil is priced world-wide in dollars, if the value of the dollar goes down, then the price of oil goes UP just to maintain the same purchasing power.

Now, before some of you want to flame me for my comments, bear this in mind: (1) I didn't say oil companies are blameless 
(2) I didn't say CEO's earn their pay (they don't, IMHO)
(3) I didn't say ethanol is the answer to high prices (it can help mitigate it but it's not the "majic bullet").

What I did say was the culprit was politicians (of both parties) who have sold out this country just to stay in office and collect inflation protected retirements. We have been spending without regard to paying for that spending and its coming to its logical conclusion. Just like people who make $30K a year should not be buying $300K houses with no money down, our economy cannot keep living beyond its means.

Watch what happens in the next 60 days if the Fed reduces interest rates. Oil will go up more because the dollar is being devalued again. 

Please re-read this 3 times before you flame me.


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## Kyle 1974 (May 10, 2006)

dash8dvr said:


> A couple years ago I swallowed my pride and bought a 4 cylinder corolla and parked my V10 dodge in the driveway. I only use my truck for fishing/hunting/towing now. What I save in gas has more than paid for the additional car/insurance every month.


Probably a good financial decision, but based on the posts on message boards across the country, I don't think very many people can deal with the "geek" factor of not driving a fully decked out 50K rig back and forth to work every day.

I mean... have you considered the impact to your reputation!?!?!!?!?

I will continue to buy a new truck every two years or so and also continue
to drive my gas guzzler no matter how high fuel is, by God...

because

1: I need a 1 ton 4X4 diesel for those rugged commutes on I-45 and the loop.
2: If I drive a vehicle that gets better gas mileage, I won't be able to complain as much about getting screwed at the pump.
3: sometimes I stop by cabelas on the way home from work, and I want everyone to know I kick *** (not driving some girly boy toyota prius!!!)

reel-tor... please don't mention the ethanol deal... it's making the corn for my deer feeders too expensive. (not to mention throwing latin america into disaray, because the price of corn tortillas has gone up 5X)


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## jnjplus6 (May 25, 2007)

Reel-Tor,

I can completely understand where you're coming from...but what happens to those of us that are just struggling to make it through everyday? Not the type that brings home 30K and has a 300K home, (personally, that's insanity). Seriously, how far is this going to go until something has to give? 
We recycle our coke cans to put gas into the boat. Yes, we do drink a "boatload" of sodas in our house. lol No pun intended. So I think we're helping a little bit....


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## Kyle 1974 (May 10, 2006)

jnjplus6 said:


> Reel-Tor,
> 
> I can completely understand where you're coming from...but what happens to those of us that are just struggling to make it through everyday? Not the type that brings home 30K and has a 300K home, (personally, that's insanity). Seriously, how far is this going to go until something has to give?
> We recycle our coke cans to put gas into the boat. Yes, we do drink a "boatload" of sodas in our house. lol No pun intended. So I think we're helping a little bit....


You have to be more optomistic.... there are many people that can't afford coke or a boat.


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## haparks (Apr 12, 2006)

yes u must filter it very well--and my mother inlaw says his truck smells like fish chicken or what ever he is burning at the time--i have been around his truck but i do not smell any french fries-- but the savings is substantial


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## Kyle 1974 (May 10, 2006)

haparks said:


> yes u must filter it very well--and my mother inlaw says his truck smells like fish chicken or what ever he is burning at the time--i have been around his truck but i do not smell any french fries-- but the savings is substantial


so how do you get enough used cooking oil?


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## haparks (Apr 12, 2006)

*ask*

go to the places that fry every thing--chicken--- fish--chinees--etc--and say u know deisal is over 4 dollars agallon and its tough--can u help---ask for their used cooking oil oil--most are willing some are not--dont give up its ur money



Kyle 1974 said:


> so how do you get enough used cooking oil?


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## JOHNNY QUEST (Mar 6, 2006)

I filled up with mid grade this morning, 3.49 a gallon in my toyota truck..


54.00 at the pump. i think i beat the geek thing with the roll bar and fog lights, brush guard, side steps and 4x4. lol.

it will last a week to work and back... thats 212.00 dollars a month.. sad hu.


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## BlueWaveEd (Jan 3, 2007)

Election in Novemeber, they are all saying they understand the middle class plight, feel for the common man. So whoever gets elected is gonna fix it. 

Pardon me if I don't hold my breath. If I had my way, we would have an election in November to replace all 535 of them.


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## Bobby (May 21, 2004)

BlueWaveEd said:


> Election in Novemeber, they are all saying they understand the middle class plight, feel for the common man. So whoever gets elected is gonna fix it.
> 
> Pardon me if I don't hold my breath. If I had my way, we would have an election in November to replace all 535 of them.


And replace them with what??? Another bunch worse than what we have now?


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## HonkyFin (May 28, 2004)

Its gonna get worse before it gets better.
Your groceries and everything else,, including your shipped packages are delivered by Diesal burning vehicles,,,anything that gets from point A to point B is going to increase in price.
I know a driver for HEB and their local fleet is burning Ten's of thousands of dollars a month on local routes.
People are going into large debt just getting to work and feeding their families.
Oh yeah, Tolls are set to increase in another year too.
Seems like 1982 all over again.
Some economists are predicting 08 to be the worst year economic wise and then 09 should see a peak in gas and everything else before a decline in economic growth worldwide by 2010,,,,We may all be living in a van down by the river by then !!


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## John Galt (Aug 6, 2006)

Mrs Backlasher said:


> Used cooking oil? Will that work? Will it ruin your motor or gunk up your fuel line
> 
> They tell me it will gunk up my veins and arteries. ~ Mrs. B


Exactly. You can drive a lot of miles on the same $2,000 it might cost to fix the fuel system...to say nothing of the emissions system etc.


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## coastalbend74 (Feb 20, 2008)

I agree the unleaded scene isn't looking any better......Single parent here having to drive my kids to baseball, t-ball, dance, I drive to Corpus twice a week for college, drive to AP to substitute......it's killing me, just when I think I'm catching up gas reaches $3.20. I think everyone is feeling it diesel or unleaded it just isn't looking good. Selling boat and sticking to self powered paddling for kayaks.



jnjplus6 said:


> Not trying to step on toes here, but "I feel your pain"...Drive a chevy suburban 4x4. While I don't consider Jimmy and myself anything above lower middle class...these gas prices are killing us too. Thankfully, I work from home and literally can work in my pj's and chill out at home...Jimmy drives a mini van to work, but work is about 45 miles from the house. We found the closest rent house to Brenham was in Sealy. We have to have a large vehicle to haul the kids (6) around. When I filled up Saturday, it cost $96.00!!! I don't usually go anywhere...I hate to shop at walmart and the little store in town is priced really high, would love to drive to Katy to go to HEB, but frankly, I have to plan the trip and have to be going to Katy for other reasons than to go to HEB.
> So what options do we have? Okay, the diesels have the veggie oil option, but what are the fuel options for the unleaded gogo juice?
> 
> This situation has us back to living paycheck to paycheck and it sucks! How can we make a point not only to our "sensitive" government, but to those who are rolling in dough at the oil companies? If this keeps going for much longer, I foresee a lot of us in the DHS office begging for food stamps...and probably being denied. This situation is screwing up the American dream, our faith in our nation, and stressing many out so bad that we have to figure out what bills we can put off just to have enough gas money to go to work and hopefully pay the bill that was put off last week, but will there be enough money left over for gas to get to work the rest of the week?
> ...


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## mullet head (Sep 29, 2005)

haparks said:


> yes u must filter it very well--and my mother inlaw says his truck smells like fish chicken or what ever he is burning at the time--i have been around his truck but i do not smell any french fries-- but the savings is substantial


A buddy of mine use to avoid fish houses...said he had too many cats hangin around his car!!! Don't know if it is true...but sounds plausible!!


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## Galveston Yankee (May 24, 2004)

You can always take the old cooking oil and make you own biodiesel out of it. Startup cost is pretty steep, but if you burn a lot of diesel, it would be worth it.

http://www.homebiodieselkits.com/homeprocessors.html

GY


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## Infidel (Aug 18, 2005)

I was happy to see that bus fare to get me into Houston hadn't gone up in the last year, I figure I save $5/day in gas and tolls (based on a car that gets 25 mpg), and I don't have to deal with traffic.

Anyways...

Iraqi oil... I'm not saying we take it, but, at todays prices, couldn't we buy it and let them pay their own way with the oil profits? If oil companies can make the kind of money they're making these days, why are we paying to rebuild Iraq?

Another interesting observation, when I fill up with gas I notice that many times the person before me got $5 or $10 in gas, lots of people out there driving fancy cars that can't put gas in them. Heh.


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## wfishtx (Apr 10, 2006)

Its sad to say, but until we as Americans make the decision to no longer spend "discrectionary" income on things we just don't need, most of this complaining is going to fall on deaf ears.

Although we are seeing a down turn in economic growth now, its nothing compared to the increase in fuel cost. I remember when gas was 2.12/gallon and the Dow Jones hit 14,000 and everyone was complaining about having to pay $2/gallon then. It makes for a tough arguement when we all complain about fuel cost, but none of us have any problems spending a few hundred to go fishing, or taking that RV on the road for a weeklong vacation or going out to eat 2 or 3 nights a week, etc.

Again as hard as it may be, until we stop buying boats, ATVs, deer leases, $50k trucks none of us really need, 80k RVs, additional vehicles (i.e. motorcycles) etc.; its really hard to gripe about fuel prices.

You want to make a statement, stop spending your discretionay income.

Mid 1980s here we come!!!


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## haparks (Apr 12, 2006)

*not that expensive*

2 hot water heaters some tubing and filters father in law has under 500 invested



John Galt said:


> Exactly. You can drive a lot of miles on the same $2,000 it might cost to fix the fuel system...to say nothing of the emissions system etc.


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## Stuart (May 21, 2004)

I bet it will get worse before it gets any better. Just wait till more folks in India and China, decide it is time to put away their bicycles or scooters and buy a car. Talking about demand.


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## RockportRobert (Dec 29, 2006)

No increase in refining capability since the very early 1980's, no drilling in ANWAR, no drilling in Colorado (huge reserves), no drilling off the coast of California, Florida, etc., No politicians with enough nerve to vote to do these things in spite of what the hyper-enviros say. Sensative to our environment? Absolutely! Stupid about it? Seems so.


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## haparks (Apr 12, 2006)

*ur right*

ur right these things u mention are just a few of the many problems that face us--the only emediate option for me is free used cooking oil to power my diesal engine--i shure hope those of yall that have diesal boats trucks etc can save some money



ACbob said:


> No increase in refining capability since the very early 1980's, no drilling in ANWAR, no drilling in Colorado (huge reserves), no drilling off the coast of California, Florida, etc., No politicians with enough nerve to vote to do these things in spite of what the hyper-enviros say. Sensative to our environment? Absolutely! Stupid about it? Seems so.


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## squidmotion (Apr 5, 2007)

my boat isn't my problem, it's getting back and forth with it. i too have been seriously looking for veg alternative...it will work for a while...but many are catching on. 

might be enough to go around.....the high end kits look very promising....

the truck and that setup isn't the problem for me... it's the filtration end of the deal. have to do your homework on this stuff.


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## Javadrinker (Feb 13, 2008)

dash8dvr said:


> A couple years ago I swallowed my pride and bought a 4 cylinder corolla and parked my V10 dodge in the driveway. I only use my truck for fishing/hunting/towing now. What I save in gas has more than paid for the additional car/insurance every month.


I drive a Rav4, and it sucks to pay $46.00 to fill up a Rav4, and thats the regular unleaded. I do not want to get rid of the surburban; 4x2; why would I want another car payment?
Let's say that the oil companies DID lower the price. Considering that we import most of the oil, OPEC and that crazy in Venezulea will only cut production to keep the price high.
Its going to get worse.


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## MT Stringer (May 21, 2004)

About that biodiesel. That was the topic of this past Saturday's "Trucks" magazine on Spike TV. Stacy David showed how to do it using the kit somebody has put together. It does take a little chemistry know-how to figure it out, but not much. Ph, lye, stirring/mixing and filtering, stuff like that.

And it smells just like french fries! 
Mike


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## w_r_ranch (Jan 14, 2005)

We all have to pay for our chosen lifestyles, that is the bottom line. 

For example: hanging on to an inefficent vehicle just because it's "paid for" is only a prudent decision only if you expect the price of fuel to fall in a short period of time or you can still afford to drive it on weekends. If not, it will continue to lose value and will still cost money to maintain/insure it. Like I said, it is a personal choice....

The economy has always been dynamic, that is a fact. People lost their farms 100 yrs ago & had to take jobs in the factories. Now, manufacturing jobs are moving due to "better" business conditions elsewhere. Personally , between the governments B.S. policies & the labor unions "rape & plunder" tactics of the last 50 yrs., they both share the blame.

The "people" look to cast blame on somebody & don't seem willing to take personal responsibility for their own economic plight, in most cases. Heck most people don't understand (or want to admit) to knowing the difference between a "needs" & "wants". 

I want a 26' boat with a 454ci and a 1 ton pickup to tow it with. I also want a 4000 sq ft house in an expensive, gated community too.... but the truth is I can't justify it. Maybe others can, but I can't.... as long as they can pay for it, more power to them. 

But people need to face the fact that "needs" are different than "wants". While we can not do anything DIRECTLY about the price oil, we do PERSONALLY control, what we spend our $$$ on. If a person wants to risk ruining an engine by using a so-called fuel that it wasn't designed for, that is their choice.... I personally wouldn't risk it but what the heck, it's a free country.

Don't bother flaming me, I'm just pointing out what should be obvious to you. Many of us have survived cycles such as this at least 3 times in our lives thus far. It is a matter of adjusting.


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## trodery (Sep 13, 2006)

Roby said:


> Buy a Honda civic


I did just exactly that! 35mpg's vs. 16mpg...it was a no brainer for me!

I bought a 2008 Civic...










And now I leave the 6 month old Tundra sitting in the garage and just drive it when I need to!










Anybody want to buy a Tundra?


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## redfish bayrat (Feb 17, 2006)

Stuart said:


> I bet it will get worse before it gets any better. Just wait till more folks in India and China, decide it is time to put away their bicycles or scooters and buy a car. Talking about demand.


Anaylsts and big Oil execs say this is the problem now. Demand from China and India has gone up so much for refined oil it has created the shortage and price to rise. No shortage of oil. Shortage of refineries and domestic production. Should have let the Middle east drown in their oil back in the 70's when they cooked up the first crisis.


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## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

there's that "axis of evil garage" again.


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## Gottagofishin (Dec 17, 2005)

Trodery,

Your Civic turned into a Beemer. That's a good trick.


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## Redfishr (Jul 26, 2004)

38 gallon tank here....I dont even look anymore....


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## Redfishr (Jul 26, 2004)

.......


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## rodwade (Feb 13, 2007)

coastalbend74 said:


> I agree the unleaded scene isn't looking any better......Single parent here having to drive my kids to baseball, t-ball, dance, I drive to Corpus twice a week for college, drive to AP to substitute......it's killing me, just when I think I'm catching up gas reaches $3.20. I think everyone is feeling it diesel or unleaded it just isn't looking good. Selling boat and sticking to self powered paddling for kayaks.


Coastal when I asked most of the guys with oil interest on here why BP and others are still taking government subsides and claiming record profits they said...wouldn't you take free money. What they don't understand is that money comes from our pockets. They didn't like it very much when I told them their oil company is pandering off of single mothers and fathers running kids to practice, school and such.

Then they said drive less...well by the numbers I found...when oil prices start to drop....what happens OPEC releases less oil and brings the price back up. You'll hear every response in the book. They are just trying to make as much money as they can for their investors! It's their duty!


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## JOHNNY QUEST (Mar 6, 2006)

trod your garage reminds me of someone thats very anal retentive.....



did ya do the floor yourself.....:slimer:


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## cncman (Sep 12, 2005)

Oh brother, I guess you didn't learn anything while I have been away, first of all you can't pander off someone, you pander to someone, and I don't think that is the word you meant to use. The ones that are pandering to the single mothers and fathers are the ones telling them that big oil is evil and the source for all their misery. that is pandering, playing off of someone's ignorant beliefs for their own gain.

Exxon Mobil alone has put more taxpayer money back (yes they are tax payers too) than the bottom 50% of america, so "taking money" out of taxpayers pockets is a hollow accusation. Aren't you taking money out of the taxpayers pockets for child, mortgage, medical etc deductions?

Yes it is the duty of a company to make as much money as possible for their investors, that is the only thing you have gotten right so far. Don't forget those investors are those poor single moms and dads taking their kids to soccer practice and church that you mentioned. I think the truth of the matter is you have a severe case of wealth envy, you have bought into the pandering going on and believe things a rational person would not accept under any other circumstance. Raising taxes on oil companies won't drive the price down, eliminating free trade and the market economy won't bring the price down. There is nothing, absolutely nothing wrong with a company in America making as much as it can withing the bounds of the law they have a duty to do so. it would be totally irresponsible for the investors to give up their share of profits to subsidize others.

What we are seeing here with the biodeisel is a market response to the problem which is great! I think more people ought to check things like that out. Imagine what would happen to the price of diesel if consumption was cut in half because people converting to biodiesel.



rodwade said:


> Coastal when I asked most of the guys with oil interest on here why BP and others are still taking government subsides and claiming record profits they said...wouldn't you take free money. What they don't understand is that money comes from our pockets. They didn't like it very much when I told them their oil company is pandering off of single mothers and fathers running kids to practice, school and such.
> 
> Then they said drive less...well by the numbers I found...when oil prices start to drop....what happens OPEC releases less oil and brings the price back up. You'll hear every response in the book. They are just trying to make as much money as they can for their investors! It's their duty!


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## txredneck68 (Aug 15, 2006)

Sell and get something that don't use as much gas... hmmm that I would do if I wasn't in constuction and have to pull trailers , haul lumber and tools etc ,, lets see someone do that in a civic..No never mind someone will come up with a pic of something like that..
But I don't drive anywhere I don't have to,, have cut out movies, really watch conditions now before I head to the beach and have 4 of us pile in my truck instead of taking two. don't go out to eat.. we really just stay home now.. and still living a week behind..
I feel your pain


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## Blue Water Ho (May 21, 2004)

37 gal tank, yea $4.00 diesel hurts. BTW the Us is exporting 300,000-500,000 gallons of diesel to europe in exchange for 1,000,000 of gas. BS if you ask me.


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## State_Vet (Oct 10, 2006)

Well if I tried to trade in my 06 chevy with a 6.0 for something that got better gas mileage I would take a beating on the trade-in. Since I really need a truck I probably wouldnt improve my milage that much anyway, so the way I figure it I'm better off just keeping what I have at this point 

oh and complaining about gas prices:biggrin:


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## huntr4life (Apr 30, 2007)

State_Vet said:


> Well if I tried to trade in my 06 chevy with a 6.0 for something that got better gas mileage I would take a beating on the trade-in. Since I really need a truck I probably wouldnt improve my milage that much anyway, so the way I figure it I'm better off just keeping what I have at this point
> 
> oh and complaining about gas prices:biggrin:


Seems like GM and the other manuf are offering even more incentives to try to get you to trade, its times like these that I am glad that I drive a company car and my wife works 3 miles from our house


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## w_r_ranch (Jan 14, 2005)

rodwade said:


> Coastal when I asked most of the guys with oil interest on here why BP and others are still taking government subsides and claiming record profits they said...wouldn't you take free money. What they don't understand is that money comes from our pockets.


We understood it just fine. We also understood that you were advocating/promoting the redistribution of other peoples hard earned money and the nationalization of private companies (confiscating private property) which is COMMUNISM. I certainly shouldn't have to tell you that... You did go to college didn't you????









http://2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/showthread.php?p=1512990#post1512990

You also said that the oil companies cheated on their taxes & royalies but due to it being just your "normal" rhetoric, you were unable to backup that statement either.









http://2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/showpost.php?p=1512562&postcount=20

In another post, you admit to getting you "data" from Sen. Diane Feinstein's website (and that data was 6-7 yrs old). You didn't seem concerned that she is a leftwing nutcase.... instead of going to the SEC's website & pulling the current numbers stated in the financial statement.

Sorry just calling a spade a spade.









http://2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/showthread.php?p=1512990#post1512990

Many of us think we pay too much in school taxes, maybe you & other 'like minded' school teachers should take a pay cuts. huh??? It's not like your producing a superior product nowadays.


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## John Galt (Aug 6, 2006)

rodwade said:


> Coastal when I asked most of the guys with oil interest on here why BP and others are still taking government subsides and claiming record profits they said...wouldn't you take free money. What they don't understand is that money comes from our pockets. They didn't like it very much when I told them their oil company is pandering off of single mothers and fathers running kids to practice, school and such.


What subsidies are you referring to?


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## w_r_ranch (Jan 14, 2005)

I wonder if rodwade is going to send his $600 check back to the government.... After all, "*that money comes from OUR pockets*".


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## BEER4BAIT (Jun 24, 2005)

Vstrom 650 at 56 MPG, I ride it to work and all over everyday. Used to cost 8 bucks per every 2 weeks now 14 bucks.


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## Sixtoe (Jul 8, 2004)

i HAVE BEEN WORKING IN CHHICAGO FOR THE LAST 3 WEEKS, THE LAST 2 WEEKS I HAD OVER 2500 MILES WITH DIRVING ONLY ABOUT 10 OF THE 14 DAYS. DIESEL UP HERE IS $4.49 A GALLON. ITS HURTING ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## rodwade (Feb 13, 2007)

John Galt said:


> What subsidies are you referring to?


One of them is the royalties that the Oil Execs are supposed to pay on offshore oil in deep wells. Because of the cost the intent was to give them a break for oil under $35 barrel. We haven't seen that in ages. The goverment has tried several methods to get contract renegotiated since the wording was convienently "left out" that if oil went over $35 a barrel they would start paying royalties on it. In another thread someone mentioned 25% royalties for coming onto my property of someone was drilling for oil. Does the feds get the same deal? 
The sad part is the oil executives said they don't need them.


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## rodwade (Feb 13, 2007)

w_r_ranch said:


> I wonder if rodwade is going to send his $600 check back to the government.... After all, "*that money comes from OUR pockets*".


It's a rebate...I payed my taxes!


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## Freshwaterman (May 21, 2004)

It seems like I have no control so I have to do my best to make ends meet. It is very hard for us all. I just keep my faith in the good ol USA and hope for the best.


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## POC Transplant (Feb 26, 2008)

Javadrinker said:


> Let's say that the oil companies DID lower the price. Considering that we import most of the oil, OPEC and that crazy in Venezulea will only cut production to keep the price high.
> Its going to get worse.


KILL EM ALL!!! Just kidding. Or am I ?......

I also am about to start running a veggie oil blend in my '00 cummins.


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## haparks (Apr 12, 2006)

*yea*

im glad to hear someone else is going to realize some savings from cooking oil



POC Transplant said:


> KILL EM ALL!!! Just kidding. Or am I ?......
> 
> I also am about to start running a veggie oil blend in my '00 cummins.


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## w_r_ranch (Jan 14, 2005)

rodwade said:


> It's a rebate...I payed my taxes!


So did the corporations and it's shareholders. Apparently you can "talk the talk" but can't "walk the walk". 








What the matter, don't them "single moms" matter as much when it's your money as when it someone else's?

By the way, you may CALL it a rebate all you like. The FACT is it is part of a STIMULUS PROGRAM per the IRS' own website:

*Facts about the 2008 Stimulus Payments*

Your inability to deal with FACTS is a personal shortcoming, as is confusing activity with accomplishment.









I read somewhere that a definition of stupidity was doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. Pardon me for asking but ... OK, I won't ask.


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## Bueno Suerte (Jun 27, 2004)

Three years ago sold the 33' Diesel SF and bought an old 17' Whaler. Great Move, love the little Whaler. Last weekend I topped up the Whaler 6 gallons - $20. That will get me from TDC to Fat Rat and back. Not bad. Oh, forgot the gas to pull her to TCD in the F-150. 40 miles rt at 10 MPG, and the oil. Starts to add up.

This week I bought a Toyota Matrix, I'm having a rack put on her to carry the yak. I'm selling the F-150, but I am going to keep the Whaler. The Wife drives a Pathfinder, so when I ask really nice I can use it to pull the boat.

At $5 / gal we will sell the Whaler and the Pathfinder.

Long story to say fuel prices are changing the way I live my life.


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## w_r_ranch (Jan 14, 2005)

rodwade said:


> The goverment has tried several methods to get contract renegotiated since the wording was convienently "left out" that if oil went over $35 a barrel they would start paying royalties on it.


The Clinton administration wrote the lease contract and both parties signed it. It is a legal document. Enough said.









In an effort to educate you, the government was glad to get revenue from a lease that had absolutely no value to them previously. At the time no one had ever drilled a well in the deepwaters the GOM, nor did the cutting-edge technologies used to create and operate the well even exist at the time. The oil companies had to do the R&D and invent/build EVERYTHING and then EXECUTE the plan. No small undertaking, I assure you. Today's lesson is now over.


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## rockhound76 (Feb 22, 2007)

w_r_ranch said:


> The Clinton administration wrote the lease contract and both parties signed it. It is a legal document. Enough said.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There ya go. It was an INCENTIVE. A novel and often ignored concept of government, since it appears that governments main purpose is to interfere in commerce, not support it.

Unfortunately, their incentive WORKED and now the fed's want a "do-over", since the evil oil companies are actually making a profit after TAKING THE RISK. Heaven forbid, if deepwater didn't work or the companies never went out there, oil would be even HIGHER in price.

Go figure.


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## John Galt (Aug 6, 2006)

rodwade said:


> One of them is the royalties that the Oil Execs are supposed to pay on offshore oil in deep wells. Because of the cost the intent was to give them a break for oil under $35 barrel. We haven't seen that in ages. The goverment has tried several methods to get contract renegotiated since the wording was convienently "left out" that if oil went over $35 a barrel they would start paying royalties on it. In another thread someone mentioned 25% royalties for coming onto my property of someone was drilling for oil. Does the feds get the same deal?
> The sad part is the oil executives said they don't need them.


On December 19, 2007, the CLEAN Energy Act of 2007 was signed into law, so the "subsidiy" no longer exists.

By Federal law, generally between a 1/8 royalty and a 1/6 royalty, based on the accessibility of the land and other factors. State royalties are set by law; I think in Louisiana they are about 1/5 and in Texas they are 1/8 (hopefully someone can clarify/confirm this). Private royalties are a matter of negotiation - I've seen them as low as 1/8 and as high as 1/3. It's just one factor in negotiating a mineral lease (other factors include how much cash the company pays the landowner, even if no wells are drilled; guarantees to the timing and number of wells to be drilled; how the landowner is compensated for damage to the land from driving trucks across it etc (ever notice the number of corrals in W Tx built from old drilling pipe? That's one reason). I guess the parellel is, if you're in the military, your pay is set by Federal law, but in the private sector, you get whatever you can get.

I do take issue with your characterization of royalty relief as a "subsidy." In contrast to corporate income tax, which is a percentage of income after substantially all expenses are paid, royalties come off the top. 1 of 8 bbls of oil belongs to the government..and it does not matter whether that pushes the company into bankruptcy. In fact, the oil industry pays substantially more taxes than most other businesses, at a lower profit margin, and while using more dollars to earn one dollar of profit. If your definition of "subsidy" is "not having to pay more higher taxes than anybody else," there's not much I can do for you.

The practical point of this discussion goes back to Econ 101. When you raise prices on something, you get less of it. Taxes behave as an increase in price. For each project, a multinational company will re-evaluate investing in US oil and gas projects in light of this increase in costs/taxes, and may well elect to spend their dollars elsewhere.

This means that your neighbors in Louisiana don't get to sell labor, services, and equipment to an oil project because someone in Nigeria, Canada, or Russia gets it; it means that the US government does not get any taxes on royalties/profits that are earned on the oil because the governments of Nigeria, Canada, or Russia get them; and finally, it means that US dollars continue to go to governments that may or may not be friendly to your interests, while the outflow of US dollars will continue to debase our currency and make the cost of every imported product from oil to TV's more expensive.


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## John Galt (Aug 6, 2006)

Coudn't edit after 10 minutes...

Ironically, this bill DID contain over $22 Billion in subsidies: Subsidies for hybrid cars; subsidies for wind, solar, and biomass energy; subsidies to increase the amount of ethanol used in motor fuel by 700% in 12 years (think deer corn/food prices are high now? Just wait...). 

The bill will effectively outlaw incandescent light bulbs within 8 years and requires the Corporate Average Fuel Economy by 2020 to increase 40% to 35 MPG. Barring unforeseeable improvements in technology, this will probably mean that Americans will be unable to find the kind of vehicles they want and will be forced to buy smaller, less capable, and less safe cars and trucks. Although certainly some large trucks will be built, their numbers will be limited and you will find yourself in a bidding war for your truck with some rich doctor or lawyer...and Detroit will probably be hit harder than the foreign car companies, so that's more of your neighbors unemployed.


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## w_r_ranch (Jan 14, 2005)

John Galt said:


> subsidies to increase the amount of ethanol used in motor fuel by 700% in 12 years (think deer corn/food prices are high now? Just wait...).


*FOOD CRISIS: Global backlash building against ethanol fuels... 
*

Ethanol was a bad decision however congress will eventually "see the light" & retract their ill-advised decision regarding ethanol, however the taxpayers will still be responsible for paying off the investors of the ethanol plants themselves. Congress screwed the pooch once again.... Their playing with the food chain has started a chain reaction that may end up starting a number of conflicts as nations try to feed their populations.

What is really sad is that half of our population is too stupid to see it coming.... stockpile your ammunition now, folks get real irrational when their hungry.


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## Charles Helm (Oct 22, 2004)

In light of the discussion about deep water drilling, take a look at the problems Mexico is having developing their deep Gulf reserves. The goverment proposed paying bonuses to private companies for assisting in the development Pemex can't do. Their constitution prohibits going further into joint development -- they cannot give a share in the production to the partners from what I understand. Even the suggestion of bonuses led to a blockade of their congress by the political opposition. Their development is going nowhere -- and thus less production is available worldwide.

MEXICO CITY - Leftist lawmakers erected makeshift barricades Monday around the podium in Mexico's lower house of Congress, where they have been camped out for more than five days to protest the president's oil reform proposal....
Last week, lawmakers from the PRD - the second largest bloc in Congress - and from two minor parties stormed the podiums in the house and Senate after Calderon introduced the bill.

Mexico's Constitution bans most private and foreign involvement in the oil industry, although Pemex subcontracts some work to private firms. The bill would allow Pemex to pay bonuses to private companies but not a share of the oil profits.

Lopez Obrador said the bill aims to privatize Pemex, allowing Mexico's oil revenues - which provide for nearly 40 percent of the national budget - to go to private and foreign companies.

Calderon has repeatedly denied he plans to privatize Pemex.


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## Custom Flat (Dec 21, 2007)

Anyone that has a new Beamer, New Tundra & a New Honda can't be too poor! or maybe NOW he is.


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## John Galt (Aug 6, 2006)

w_r_ranch said:


> *FOOD CRISIS: Global backlash building against ethanol fuels... *
> 
> Ethanol was a bad decision however congress will eventually "see the light" & retract their ill-advised decision regarding ethanol, however the taxpayers will still be responsible for paying off the investors of the ethanol plants themselves. Congress screwed the pooch once again.... Their playing with the food chain has started a chain reaction that may end up starting a number of conflicts as nations try to feed their populations.
> 
> What is really sad is that half of our population is too stupid to see it coming.... stockpile your ammunition now, folks get real irrational when their hungry.


People are going to burn this summer. I'm surprised it/s not been in the news more. Yesterday's WSJ reported that there ahve already been food riots in Haiti, Egypt, Cameroon, Senegal, Ivory Coast, and Ethiopia. Zimbabwe is next... The World Bank reported that 33 countries are at risk of social upheaval due to food costs, including Indonesia, Yemen, Uzbekistan, and the Phillipines. India's finance minister referred to biofuels as "a crime against humanity." Pakistan and Thailand have deployed the army to protect crops (distracting from their war on terrorists.)

Definitely getting ugly. Probably not here, but one thing the Muslim Brotherhood (google it) does very well is charity work.

Though I will admit, it's not just biofuels that are doing this, places like China have gotten rich enough for people to afford more meat and better protein...it's the first thing people buy when they start to make money. THis is pushing up prices also.


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## StevePage (Aug 1, 2006)

its no fun, but we all have to adjust or fail. its part of the natural order, sink or swim. If you can't afford to drive your 10 mpg truck, you need a new profession or a different vehicle period because fuel price is not going to go down. If you were on your last 10 bucks would you buy beer and smokes or put 10 dollars in your tank? I would put 10 dollars in my tank. My life has changed and I'm a happy person and the price of gas did that, until you change your life, (I know it sucks to have to do that) you will continue to gripe about fuel cost. I work a mile away from my house, I will never work for a company again that does not provide a company vehicle for my line of work because mileage rates don't cut it anymore. I feel bad for truck drivers (owner operators) and people that really need a big fuel hogging machine, but things change. Here's the real question in my mind, how can we realistically change the price of oil? The politicians aren't and won't do it (I don't care who you vote for) or they would have already done something. The president won't or can't, neither will the next one. How can we change it really? I don't see any way to do it so I myself have to change. I'm about as far from a tree hugger as you can get, I would drill for oil in a cemetary if it would help, and I can read the internet copy/paste articles that we've all been reading and posting just as well as everyone else but what do we do? I see a revolution coming over not just fuel prices, and I have all my guns loaded....do you?


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## tinman (Apr 13, 2005)

*Gasoline & Diesel*



StevePage said:


> its no fun, but we all have to adjust or fail. its part of the natural order, sink or swim. If you can't afford to drive your 10 mpg truck, you need a new profession or a different vehicle period because fuel price is not going to go down. If you were on your last 10 bucks would you buy beer and smokes or put 10 dollars in your tank? I would put 10 dollars in my tank. My life has changed and I'm a happy person and the price of gas did that, until you change your life, (I know it sucks to have to do that) you will continue to gripe about fuel cost. I work a mile away from my house, I will never work for a company again that does not provide a company vehicle for my line of work because mileage rates don't cut it anymore. I feel bad for truck drivers (owner operators) and people that really need a big fuel hogging machine, but things change. Here's the real question in my mind, how can we realistically change the price of oil? The politicians aren't and won't do it (I don't care who you vote for) or they would have already done something. The president won't or can't, neither will the next one. How can we change it really? I don't see any way to do it so I myself have to change. I'm about as far from a tree hugger as you can get, I would drill for oil in a cemetary if it would help, and I can read the internet copy/paste articles that we've all been reading and posting just as well as everyone else but what do we do? I see a revolution coming over not just fuel prices, and I have all my guns loaded....do you?


You pretty much summed it up Steve. I am in agreement with you on most everything, particulary the last sentance.
I parked my Powerstroke diesel in the back yard 2 months ago and bought a 1999 Chevy S-10 pick-up from my Mother in law.
A man's gotta do what a man's gotta do. Keep 'em loaded.
Tinman


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## BeachCityBoy (May 27, 2007)

I think I'm gonna start riding my Harley more.....it gets about 45 mpg.


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## StevePage (Aug 1, 2006)

if it keeps up I will buy a cheap motorcycle and get rid of my Tahoe and use the bike for my primary transportation. alot of weekend parade riders are now using their bikes as primary transportation. BEER4BAIT almost has me sold on the new Hyusung (or whatever its called) that gets unbelievable mileage without sacrifice of performance. http://www.hyosungmotorsusa.com/product/spec.asp?cat=Cruise&model=GV650


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## BEER4BAIT (Jun 24, 2005)

save twice the fuel with half the wheels. You just may have the time of your life in doing so.


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## goatchze (Aug 1, 2006)

You know, you can get a car with better mileage AND keep your diesel!

Bought my wife a TDI Jetta last summer, even with high diesel prices I'm glad we did! She's been getting 53mpg for the last 10,000 miles!

Me? I drive a paid for Jeep (bought it for $7k cash back in 1997), so gas prices are going to have to go up a LOT to make me buy a new car...

...but a few years back I did follow beer4bait's advice. got a little 250cc Honda motorcycle...60mpg to work and back...

but I don't negotiate the freeway, just 10 miles of HWY 6 through College Station.

Oh yeah, back to an earlier post, when the Diesel engine was first patented...vegetable oil was the fuel.

Later!


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## txgunrunner (Dec 30, 2005)

just wait till a hurricane hits the gulf....ouch!


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## BEER4BAIT (Jun 24, 2005)

The first is a 250cc that has a 90 degree vtwin about 70 MPG top speed 85 MPH. Steve may have this one soon. The second is what I ride daily, 26 miles round trip to work plus running around every day $14 per every 14 days 2 weeks About 58 MPG. Its like a jeep on 2 wheels.


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## rodwade (Feb 13, 2007)

I get roughly 45mpg on my TDI golf. I can't think of many vechiles that will get better milage. I've got 184,000 miles on it now.


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## TxFig (May 4, 2006)

ACbob said:


> No increase in refining capability since the very early 1980's, no drilling in ANWAR, no drilling in Colorado (huge reserves), no drilling off the coast of California, Florida, etc., No politicians with enough nerve to vote to do these things in spite of what the hyper-enviros say. Sensative to our environment? Absolutely! Stupid about it? Seems so.


Increased oil production is NOT the answer.

Reducing oil consumption is. And I'm not talking about reducing the increase in consumption (like most polititians).... I am talking about reducing how much oil we use IN TOTAL.

You don't get reductions like that by switching to better milage, or ethinol mixes, or even by driving more efficient cars. Because the # of cars is still going to go up. You do it by making transportation *oil free*.

Currently, the best energy alternative to oil is electricity (since there ARE other ways to make electricity which do not depend on consumables).

So where were those plans for replacing the combusion engine in my car with an electric one?


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## BeachCityBoy (May 27, 2007)

TxFig said:


> Increased oil production is NOT the answer.
> 
> Reducing oil consumption is. And I'm not talking about reducing the increase in consumption (like most polititians).... I am talking about reducing how much oil we use IN TOTAL.
> 
> ...


Seen any 150 hp electric outboards ?....or maybe electric 3/4 ton 4 wheel drive trucks....lol


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## bwguardian (Aug 30, 2005)

BeachCityBoy said:


> Seen any 150 hp electric outboards ?....or maybe electric 3/4 ton 4 wheel drive trucks....lol


No, but believe it or not those HUGE land moving dump trucks (the big yellow ones) are actually powered by electric motors...however, a diesel engine genterates the electricity. I wondered for years what kind of power plants those big trucks had and was amazed when I found out the truth.

I wish they would come out with a diesel outboard like the military has so I could use cheap bio diesel in them and get the cost of fuel for those long runs down.


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## TxFig (May 4, 2006)

BeachCityBoy said:


> Seen any 150 hp electric outboards ?....or maybe electric 3/4 ton 4 wheel drive trucks....lol


There is no doubt that there will always be a need for oil-run engines.

But the VAST majority of us don't need it for our daily transportation. I know I don't.


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## BeachCityBoy (May 27, 2007)

bwguardian said:


> No, but believe it or not those HUGE land moving dump trucks (the big yellow ones) are actually powered by electric motors...however, a diesel engine genterates the electricity. I wondered for years what kind of power plants those big trucks had and was amazed when I found out the truth.


That is amazing...cool !


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## irbjd (Aug 11, 2005)

bwguardian said:


> No, but believe it or not those HUGE land moving dump trucks (the big yellow ones) are actually powered by electric motors...however, a diesel engine genterates the electricity. I wondered for years what kind of power plants those big trucks had and was amazed when I found out the truth.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> Same thing with locomotives, too.


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## Freshwaterman (May 21, 2004)

I was going to way in but anyone hit the points I would make already and very well. 

You want to save $$ on diesel or gasoline -- find a way to burn less of it - there is no other way that is as effective in dropping your cost and with enough folks following this example - this act will go a long way to solving the overall problem. 

Taxing oil companies will not well not help at all to drop the cost of fuel.


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## haparks (Apr 12, 2006)

wow i got a great debate goin here i had no idea i would generate such talk--im glad to see all the diff views--but the fact remains--i just pumped into my fedex truck $4.40 a gallon wow when is it going to end--on the flip side--i did 303 miles and 70 stops--im so tired i cant sleep and have been up since 320


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## John Galt (Aug 6, 2006)

haparks said:


> --i did 303 miles and 70 stops


Man, you should not drink so much coffee!


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## wingman (Dec 18, 2006)

Buy a throw down car like a honda a civic. Due minimum maintenance and don't carry insurance on it. If you have a wreck-just walk away from it. When the town roads are covered with junk cars the gov might start thinking about cutting the $.54 of taxes they collect on each gallon. Good to vent- write your congressman & senators and complain everyday to their office. We bottom feeders aint going to get any action till we all start taking it up a notch.


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## w_r_ranch (Jan 14, 2005)

haparks said:


> i just pumped into my fedex truck $4.40 a gallon wow when is it going to end


As numerous folks have already stated: no time soon or it's not (adjust your expectations). I'm sure that fedex will be altering it's fleet (and it's business model) if they have not already started. Fedex (as has others) has raised it's prices already & will continue to do so. As prices rise, customers will search for more cost effective solutions themselves, thus a certain amount of business will be lost... the end result will be smaller & fewer delivery vehicles will be required for the business that remains. As a result of this, they will not need as many loaders & drivers either. Think about it....

Simple business fact - adjust or you don't survive. No use trying to sugarcoat it....


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## rockhound76 (Feb 22, 2007)

wingman said:


> Buy a throw down car like a honda a civic. Due minimum maintenance and don't carry insurance on it. If you have a wreck-just walk away from it. When the town roads are covered with junk cars the gov might start thinking about cutting the $.54 of taxes they collect on each gallon. Good to vent- write your congressman & senators and complain everyday to their office. We bottom feeders aint going to get any action till we all start taking it up a notch.


Not even liability? Remind yourself not to run into me.

I have an '89 Toyota truck. The mileage isn't great, but the overhead is cheap. Liability only.

When my youngest was in cancer treatment, none of our vehicles would fit in the MD Anderson garage, so we decided to buy a small "hospital car" as our big van and big truck were needed for other things. I went to a Saturn dealer and bought a Corolla trade-in off their lot. It was money well spent on a cheap car. I drove it to and from the hospital for two years, put about 20K miles on it at 34mpg. I sold it for $500 less than the 11,000 I paid. I should have kept it, as I could use a real throw-down car now.

A motorcycle is too dangerous and a bicycle is too slow (but not that slow...about twice as long as it takes in my car in Houston traffic, to go say, 50 or 60 miles.) Plus, a bicycle is just not practical for the co-workers who would have to smell me the rest of the day..I'd be commuting downtown from Conroe.

So....I drive to the park and ride and take the bus. The company pays, so my commute is cheap anyway.

EDIT: Holy Cow! 4.40/gal.? My wife just called and griped that diesel was 4.10 up by the house. We love our diesel Excursion, but now it makes no economic sense.


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## Capt Ahab (Oct 11, 2005)

*Killer Fuel*

Not to sound alarmist, but the high cost of fuel, esp. diesel, will give rise to some staggering consequences. Just think about how many industries use diesel and you can see the ripple effect on costs across the board.

The trucking industry, the shipping industry, and the railroad system all use diesel to power their engines. Those transportation costs will get passed on, thereby raising prices on all of the items they ship.

The construction industry and commercial farmers likewise use diesel, which cuts into their margins/profits. It will cost more to put food on the table, notwithstanding the higher costs associated with using corn for ethanol vs. feed. Indeed, some construction companies (& other businesses w/ commercial fleets) are already factoring in fuel surcharges or excluding fuel costs from their bids.

It now costs substantially more to transport goods to your grocery store, your home improvement store, your mall, and elsewhere. Under the longstanding economic principle of cost-shifting, we will pay more as consumers. Anything made of plastic will also cost more, since it is a petroleum byproduct.

I agree with others that, universally, things will get worse and may never get better without a reliable and renewable alternative fuel source. Until then, we all better tighten our collective belts. Of course, I'll have to buy a bigger belt to be able to tighten it, and even that will cost more! ;-)


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## SlipKnot (Mar 31, 2008)

Would most of you like some cheese with all that wine?

Gas prices are set by something called supply and demand.
We demand it, supply is not that high, so as a result, price goes up.

Same for a hunting lease, guide trip, fishing rod, gun scope, anything and everything.

If you would take that angry energy and put it towards ways YOU could cut your fuel needs, then price would go down.

Otherwise cry all you want. No one cares.

It is time we Americans change the way we live. Like it or not we need to change our thinking. Better public transportaion, better fuel economy, better use of natural landscape and resources.


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## TunnelVision (Aug 16, 2005)

If anyone wants to get in on a home brew diesel kit, I'm ready... Turnkey kits for around 3 - 5K. If we split it then we can make it back real quick. I'm in NW Houston - Cypress.


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## BEER4BAIT (Jun 24, 2005)

Right Slipknot if fuel went up $2 more per gallon people would just complain and still fill up the 3/4 and one ton trucks just to drive to the office and back. Just my .02


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## haparks (Apr 12, 2006)

*no coffee*

thats funny--i was in the military for 6 years and still i cant drink the stuff



John Galt said:


> Man, you should not drink so much coffee!


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## mywifeshusband (Nov 19, 2006)

I have two tanks (137 gallons each) to fill every day or so. That's about $800.00 a fill up. Thank God for the fuel surcharge to help out. Yes I have a big Peterbuilt and so far it pays my bills+. The company my wife works for just gave a raise to their employees to help with the fuel costs. My hat is off to the owner of the Co. she works for, he is the type that takes care of his people. They sell safety equipment to the marine and offshore drilling companies.


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## haparks (Apr 12, 2006)

*wow*

her company is awsome-- its the first company i have heard of doing that



mywifeshusband said:


> I have two tanks (137 gallons each) to fill every day or so. That's about $800.00 a fill up. Thank God for the fuel surcharge to help out. Yes I have a big Peterbuilt and so far it pays my bills+. The company my wife works for just gave a raise to their employees to help with the fuel costs. My hat is off to the owner of the Co. she works for, he is the type that takes care of his people. They sell safety equipment to the marine and offshore drilling companies.


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## drred4 (Aug 12, 2005)

SlipKnot said:


> Would most of you like some cheese with all that wine?
> 
> Gas prices are set by something called supply and demand.
> We demand it, supply is not that high, so as a result, price goes up.


So the demand since 2003 has gone up enough for fuel to raise 300%. I know China and India or using much more but I call BS on that much more demand!!


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## StevePage (Aug 1, 2006)

drred4 said:


> So the demand since 2003 has gone up enough for fuel to raise 300%. I know China and India or using much more but I call BS on that much more demand!!


just read the right website and it will tell you what you want to hear. Searching the internet for news on controversial issues is like having the worlds largest magic 8 ball but most will never know its a magic 8 ball.


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## BEER4BAIT (Jun 24, 2005)

StevePage said:


> just read the right website and it will tell you what you want to hear. Searching the internet for news on controversial issues is like having the worlds largest magic 8 ball but most will never know its a magic 8 ball.


True when you come by tomorrow your bike is ready


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## SlipKnot (Mar 31, 2008)

drred4 said:


> So the demand since 2003 has gone up enough for fuel to raise 300%. I know China and India or using much more but I call BS on that much more demand!!


And buddy that is your right to call it BS. Perhaps it is, but until the oil men get their hands out of politics, nothing will change. The only thing you can do is change your own personal demand.

And that is the bottom line.


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## boashna (May 28, 2004)

$8 a gallon in germany back in 2005 .


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## boashna (May 28, 2004)

when the war is over the military consummation will be lower , those tanks use lots of gas. if demarcates win the war is over so is the high price of gas., but if republican win , I am buying a small car because we are going to go to $6 a gallon. oil was trading in $40 a barrel less than 4 years ago


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## cncman (Sep 12, 2005)

How are you getting a 300% rise in fuel price since 03? Lets see, in 03 gas was what about $1.98-2.15 per gallon, something like that? even at $2 300% more would be $6 per gallon, so it has actually gone up something in the neighborhood of 50% not 300%. when you consider much of that is because of the fall of the dollar the remainder being there because of increased demand seems right to me.



drred4 said:


> So the demand since 2003 has gone up enough for fuel to raise 300%. I know China and India or using much more but I call BS on that much more demand!!


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## MEGABITE (May 21, 2004)

Where is all this alledged increased demand coming from?


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## activescrape (Jan 8, 2006)

cncman said:


> How are you getting a 300% rise in fuel price since 03? Lets see, in 03 gas was what about $1.98-2.15 per gallon, something like that? even at $2 300% more would be $6 per gallon, so it has actually gone up something in the neighborhood of 50% not 300%. when you consider much of that is because of the fall of the dollar the remainder being there because of increased demand seems right to me.


In 03 I was living in Colorado Springs and working in Denver. I filled up in Castle Rock all the time for $1.26. Three times that is $3.78, not much higher than it is now. Can you say B-O-G-U-S


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## cncman (Sep 12, 2005)

The entire developing world, india china, pac rim.



MEGABITE said:


> Where is all this alledged increased demand coming from?


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## cncman (Sep 12, 2005)

Wow, that was real low, I think the lowest average I saw for a short time for 03 was about $1.75, three times that is over $5 per gallon.



activescrape said:


> In 03 I was living in Colorado Springs and working in Denver. I filled up in Castle Rock all the time for $1.26. Three times that is $3.78, not much higher than it is now. Can you say B-O-G-U-S


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## MEGABITE (May 21, 2004)

cncman said:


> The entire developing world, india china, pac rim.


 So they just developed this past year? Doesn't make any sense why the demand would rise so rapidly to me. I believe it's supply and demand alright...they have the supply and will demand whatever they want for it.


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## TexasFlats (Mar 29, 2007)

MEGABITE said:


> So they just developed this past year? Doesn't make any sense why the demand would rise so rapidly to me. I believe it's supply and demand alright...they have the supply and will demand whatever they want for it.


A friend told me that much of the demand for fuel and raw materials is coming from China - getting ready for the Olympics. Don't know if it is conjecture on his part, but there could be something to it.


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## 535 (May 23, 2004)

TexasFlats said:


> A friend told me that much of the demand for fuel and raw materials is coming from China - getting ready for the Olympics. Don't know if it is conjecture on his part, but there could be something to it.


Can we expect a dip in prices when they shut their manufacturing down for 2 weeks? Sorry, couldn't pass it up...


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## cncman (Sep 12, 2005)

china has increased their demand by about 1.5 mbd just in the last 4 years. Total world demand has gone up over 5 mbd in the same last 4 years. Supply has only gone up about 2.2mbd over the 4 years. Then you look at the fact we just came off of a negative floating storage and transit # to a zero number, but still off of the positive numbers there used to be, plus much of OPEC pumping at near full capacity, there isn't much more upward movement. Good news though I saw a report on the largest find in NA up around montana, hopefully when that gets online we will see some relief.


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## drred4 (Aug 12, 2005)

SlipKnot said:


> And buddy that is your right to call it BS. Perhaps it is, but until the oil men get their hands out of politics, nothing will change. The only thing you can do is change your own personal demand.And that is the bottom line.


That is correct, and I have a feeling that a bunch of people will stop taking extra trips all the time and plan their routes and errands



cncman said:


> How are you getting a 300% rise in fuel price since 03? Lets see, in 03 gas was what about $1.98-2.15 per gallon, something like that? even at $2 300% more would be $6 per gallon, so it has actually gone up something in the neighborhood of 50% not 300%. when you consider much of that is because of the fall of the dollar the remainder being there because of increased demand seems right to me.


well I remember paying 1.08 and even a little less In Conroe in 2003. SO that would come out to 4.32 a gallon. Not quite 300% but sure the heck not a little 50%.



TexasFlats said:


> A friend told me that much of the demand for fuel and raw materials is coming from China - getting ready for the Olympics. Don't know if it is conjecture on his part, but there could be something to it.


My dad has been feeling the effects of lumber and steel prices for contruction for a while now.

Bottom line rising fuel prices are going to cause changes to come about across the board on everything,.


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## cncman (Sep 12, 2005)

Wow, what are you paying now? The lowest average I have seen for any month in 2003 was 1.70 in january. with many months over 1.80 and some over $2. $1 or $1.26 gas was highly unusual for that time. so even if you take the lowest average for 03 at 1.70 to today about 3.30 that isn't even 100% increase much less 300%.

http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/ftparea/wogirs/xls/pswrgvwall.xls



drred4 said:


> That is correct, and I have a feeling that a bunch of people will stop taking extra trips all the time and plan their routes and errands
> 
> well I remember paying 1.08 and even a little less In Conroe in 2003. SO that would come out to 4.32 a gallon. Not quite 300% but sure the heck not a little 50%.
> 
> ...


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## haparks (Apr 12, 2006)

this is i think the most hits on a thread i have posted since i became a member--i just bought 12 ft of clear hose to pump my cooking oil


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## cncman (Sep 12, 2005)

All of you biodiesel guys keep us updated. I have been thinking of getting an old VW diesel car for something like that. May buy some if it works good.


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## haparks (Apr 12, 2006)

*not bio diesal*

its not bio diesal im burning its straight cooking oil--free cooking oil---freeeee



cncman said:


> All of you biodiesel guys keep us updated. I have been thinking of getting an old VW diesel car for something like that. May buy some if it works good.


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## cncman (Sep 12, 2005)

Wow, what kind of diesel are you running? Have you researched that? I thought you had to treat it or something first. Any risk of damaging it?



haparks said:


> its not bio diesal im burning its straight cooking oil--free cooking oil---freeeee


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## haparks (Apr 12, 2006)

*this is the just of it*

2 hot water heaters cooking it at 160 or better and filter the heck out of it start 50-50 then slowly work ur way to 4 to 1--4 parts cooking oil 1 part deisal



cncman said:


> Wow, what kind of diesel are you running? Have you researched that? I thought you had to treat it or something first. Any risk of damaging it?


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## drred4 (Aug 12, 2005)

cncman said:


> Wow, what are you paying now? The lowest average I have seen for any month in 2003 was 1.70 in january. with many months over 1.80 and some over $2. $1 or $1.26 gas was highly unusual for that time. so even if you take the lowest average for 03 at 1.70 to today about 3.30 that isn't even 100% increase much less 300%.
> 
> http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/ftparea/wogirs/xls/pswrgvwall.xls


well I sure the heck ain't paying 3.30 for diesel anywhere that I know of and 3.40 is 100% of 1.70. and yes I did pay under 1.26 at a Randall's in Conroe In 2003. I don't have all my receipts or such from Back then, but That was always the cheapest gas or diesel that I could find.

I don't know if supply has been cut that much because I sure would not think demand has rose that great amount.

On another note, When I was living in Waco I remember buying gas in 1999 at 85 cents all the time at a place just south of Waco. Only if that was the case now. OH Well. Times change and we will have to change and adapt.


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## cncman (Sep 12, 2005)

Keep us updated on how it goes. What kind of diesel are you running?



haparks said:


> 2 hot water heaters cooking it at 160 or better and filter the heck out of it start 50-50 then slowly work ur way to 4 to 1--4 parts cooking oil 1 part deisal


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## cncman (Sep 12, 2005)

Ive been talking gas, diesel has many other factors in it. You sure got a deal even back then on gas, if you compare average back then to average now it is a little less than 100% more. I am sure somewhere someone is getting some unusual deal like you did at 50 cents back of average and is paying $2.80 per gallon somewhere, so average to average or low to low it is around 100% not 300%. Small point, still sucks but hey what are you going to do but run on cooking oil! For my short drive back and forth I have been thinking about getting something I can run all electric and almost totally eliminate all gas!



drred4 said:


> well I sure the heck ain't paying 3.30 for diesel anywhere that I know of and 3.40 is 100% of 1.70. and yes I did pay under 1.26 at a Randall's in Conroe In 2003. I don't have all my receipts or such from Back then, but That was always the cheapest gas or diesel that I could find.
> 
> I don't know if supply has been cut that much because I sure would not think demand has rose that great amount.
> 
> On another note, When I was living in Waco I remember buying gas in 1999 at 85 cents all the time at a place just south of Waco. Only if that was the case now. OH Well. Times change and we will have to change and adapt.


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## haparks (Apr 12, 2006)

*cummins*

me--- cummins--father in law powerstroke



cncman said:


> Keep us updated on how it goes. What kind of diesel are you running?


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## drred4 (Aug 12, 2005)

cncman said:


> Ive been talking gas, diesel has many other factors in it. You sure got a deal even back then on gas, if you compare average back then to average now it is a little less than 100% more. I am sure somewhere someone is getting some unusual deal like you did at 50 cents back of average and is paying $2.80 per gallon somewhere, so average to average or low to low it is around 100% not 300%. Small point, still sucks but hey what are you going to do but run on cooking oil! For my short drive back and forth I have been thinking about getting something I can run all electric and almost totally eliminate all gas!


I have heard some talk about the Hydrogen cars being only 3 cents a gallon, not real sure as I am not at that stage to give up my diesel truck yet. 13-15mpg pulling anything is way better than what i had with my gas powered truck with 7-9 pulling. But sometimes I wish I would have bought a single cab gas truck and then a real efficient car as well. Didn't even think about it then, but the thought will be in my head on any future purchases that is for sure.

I do not want to even guess how much money my Uncle and cousin will spend in Diesel on their Tractors, Combines, and Pickers this next year. Not to mention my father in law who runs his Kenworth all across the country.


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## stew1tx (Oct 15, 2004)

Remember, TCEQ imparted standards basically shutting down the biodiesel industry in the eastern counties of TX. I think 35 Counties, all E of Hwy 35 can no longer produce biodiesel in a grade lower than b99.9 I think it is. I asked well what can you do if I make it myself? He said well nothing really, that is your business unless a DPS knows the rules. Another thing to make sure my friend, is to make sure you filter the dog out of it. That basically is all biod is, good and filtered and of course a little addition to chemically alter a molecule into something that burns better, makes and keeps it more viscous and then wash it again...


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## haparks (Apr 12, 2006)

cooked-- filtered --and filtered again--im not gonna pay these high prices any more except to go 50-50 the eventully--and eventully 4 to 1----- 4 cookin oil and 1 diesal


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## Profish00 (May 21, 2004)

do it, report back on your results


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## RickJames (Dec 13, 2007)

If the prices keep going up, I stress to keep your boats and sell everything else, because we will all be living in Van down by the river! :idea:


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## stew1tx (Oct 15, 2004)

BTW HAPARKS, that is biodiesel. It falls into that category, it is called SVO (Straight vegetable oil) or WVO (waste vegetable oil) and those can either be blended altered alkyl esters and can be used alone or by mixing regular diesel or dino fuel.


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## haparks (Apr 12, 2006)

u got it--my father in law been doin it for 6 months now--workin great



Profish00 said:


> do it, report back on your results


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## galvetraz (Nov 29, 2005)

I just hope everyone realizes that the rising cost of fuel has to due with the cost of the war and the depreciation of the American dollar. If you print more money it will be worth less. Exchange rates are real F'd up.


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## Whisky Delta (Apr 16, 2007)

I've been carpooling for 6 months or so. It's a bit of a pain, and takes some getting used to ..... you don't have the complete independence you want. The good side: my cost for fuel is the equivilent of $1.65 / gal.


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## stew1tx (Oct 15, 2004)

MY GOD, I can't believe I got through all 14 pages. One thing to remember it is all relative. Remember exploration costs have escalated A BUNCH. Remember also that these rigs have to use diesel and a SH&T load of it too. Rig shortages, steel costs up, transportation costs up, refineries tooled to produce gasoline for the large majority of the oil coming in. All lead to higher costs. Remember any cost a company incurs will become a pass through cost if it can.

Deman, well here is something for everyone to consider, demand and cars have been increasing at an increasing rate. So much so that the US falls well short of keeping up with demand domestically. There needs to be incentives in place for more exploration. That wouldn't really help though, because rigs are hard to come by. So much so that we have been using companies that have rigs that are not much more than beefed up water well rigs to knock out shallow wells. 20 years ago cars were more of a comodity in that not everyone in the family needed one. Now, people are having more kids, and every person in the family needs a car to make it convenient to go to destination x. 

Hmmmm, opec smopek! We have the reserves domestically and don't need them we just need to focus on us and let those other contries that can not survive sink. We can not be the hero forever. Now, like I always say we control the pricing as consumers. Don't like it? Don't complain take action. Sell your car, get a job close to home, walk to work, ride the bus, ride a bike etc... Not feasible? Well make it so. If you ever listen to city governement meetings when they talk about regional commutes and the likes these are things they are talking about. We have moved further and further from our place of employment and both parents work in different directions usually. Not helping! I am in the industry, but not a major and everyone knows the price will be as high as the market will bear. We have to pay fuel costs too. I did just hear that a guy bought some 07 leftover cummins, 7 of them, for about 25k each. So, we really need to start focusing on our spending habits and aimless traveling habits. Reduce your commute. The economy is in a downturn no doubt, but like it has been mentioned as long as we keep spending to "Stuff" we as consumers evidently have excess funds. 

Carpooling is an excellent alternative, but everyone wants the convenience of having their own car. I am leaving out a bunch i am sure but this storm just came barreling through so Houston, hold on, LOTS of energy up there in the atmosphere now. Harness it and put it to use and you will be a billionaire hehehe. So, better post this before power goes off or something and i lose my router


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## stew1tx (Oct 15, 2004)

I also think some people better check their figures about fuel costs. When I graduated, actually before I graduated, say in 1990 I distinctly remember seeing regular break the 1.00 mark. If it was that cheap you should have bought it by the trailer load and stored or sold it yourself.

Speaking of that, I guess we can get about 20k of us donate enough to the kiddy and build our own refinery. We use what we use and sell the rest, both proportionate to your investment. Call it a fuel club.... If any of you bastiges do it and I dont get included it's going to be bad news for you lol....


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## galvetraz (Nov 29, 2005)

Chill buddy we have hope. I'm sure people will call me a hemp smokin hippy for postin this but who cares what hey think.

Check this link out.


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## stew1tx (Oct 15, 2004)

OH YEA, one more thing before class is dismissed, Oil companies in the politicians pockets? Well why not? But not to the degree you think or it would cost less to explore, would be more progressive measures to make it more enticing for companies to go out on a limb looking at wildcat locations. Free enterprise, that is just the way it is. If everyone wants to make a change, well start calling your legislator, start making changes and if everyone is going to fire all of their congressmen and other legislators, I will take your nomination for a state representative or congress. I will make sure your money is well spent, not take raises, and make sure it costs less for you to live and commute and work on a job bank to try and have a placement service that looks at proximity to your place of residence and attempts to change jobs for people more effectively. Like a but government temp agency that is not temp. 


Just as i am typing this I see southwest, Contenental and other air carriers losing 60-80 Large over first quarter last year. Harley Davidson laying off a large chunk. Amd just let a ton go. No if ands or buts about it, we are reaching a point where a recession is needed. We can't grow grow grow and use accordingly and expect that to continue. Too many shopping malls, (cabelas too close to my house) gas stations falsely increasing prices, we feeling we ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO DRIVE EVERYWHERE all lead to bad things.

Class dismissed, everyone have a good weekend and homework for the weekend is to do research on what really matters to you and your family and prioritize your spending and start being proactive with your approach to fuel needs. And, notice I said proactive NOT LEFT WING HARD CORE ENVIRONMENTAL FREAKISH OR FAR RIGHT WING OVERLY CONSERVATIVE, think rational and remember the millions of people that should be doing the exact same thing. Good [email protected])


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## bill (May 21, 2004)

to keep prices high, some countries cut production

pickens says he will sell at $100 and now changes to buy all the way up to $125

face it, there is so much money to be made, no one country, person or company is going to stand up

I believe this to be one more bubble that will burst


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## galvetraz (Nov 29, 2005)

I hear ya, were all victims of the oil cartels. You should watch how bold you get on this site. I've been a victim of censorship at it's finest.


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## stew1tx (Oct 15, 2004)

Yea I saw that video, it has promise, but do the math on how much energy it takes to run that rf generator. guess we could run a diesel generator on straight waste oil with a good built in filter system, then run a generator on either side of each cylinder and from there operate like a conventional car/truck. Then it might make some sense, but then someone would petition TCEQ on how it had higher NOX gasses and can not be used as a fuel commercially.


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## galvetraz (Nov 29, 2005)

I agree, but we can't write something off we have no idea about. I want to see it in person. They have one at M.D Anderson.



stew1tx said:


> Yea I saw that video, it has promise, but do the math on how much energy it takes to run that rf generator. guess we could run a diesel generator on straight waste oil with a good built in filter system, then run a generator on either side of each cylinder and from there operate like a conventional car/truck. Then it might make some sense, but then someone would petition TCEQ on how it had higher NOX gasses and can not be used as a fuel commercially.


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## stew1tx (Oct 15, 2004)

me or bill?
Censorship?


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## stew1tx (Oct 15, 2004)

BUT, I hope that works, it has huge promise as a alternative for part of the problem. But, if it leads to perpetually low tides I am going to scream lol


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## galvetraz (Nov 29, 2005)

Low tides lol. Censorship neither of ya'll. Just the mob mentallity of hyperanalytical thumpers in here in general. It's all good though.



stew1tx said:


> BUT, I hope that works, it has huge promise as a alternative for part of the problem. But, if it leads to perpetually low tides I am going to scream lol


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## John Galt (Aug 6, 2006)

galvetraz said:


> I just hope everyone realizes that the rising cost of fuel has to due with the cost of the war.


 Nope. The Boston Herold estimated the cost of the war to be $2 Billion/week. According to the Center for Budget and Policy Priorities, the US Government spends $10 Billion/week on Social Security; $9 Billion/week on Medicare/Medicaid and SCHIP; $4 Billion on "Safety Net" programs; and $4 Billion/week on interst on the debt (mostly, spending incurred before the war in Iraq), for a total of $28 Billion (rounding). That's 58% of the Federal budget.


galvetraz said:


> and the depreciation of the American dollar. If you print more money it will be worth less. Exchange rates are real F'd up.


Agreed...


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## rodwade (Feb 13, 2007)

stew1tx said:


> Yea I saw that video, it has promise, but do the math on how much energy it takes to run that rf generator. guess we could run a diesel generator on straight waste oil with a good built in filter system, then run a generator on either side of each cylinder and from there operate like a conventional car/truck. Then it might make some sense, but then someone would petition TCEQ on how it had higher NOX gasses and can not be used as a fuel commercially.


Actually biofuels have less NOX then Diesel.


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## John Galt (Aug 6, 2006)

haparks said:


> this is i think the most hits on a thread i have posted since i became a member--i just bought 12 ft of clear hose to pump my cooking oil


 I think Pilar's "My wife broke up all my trophies for dog chews" thread over on the Hunting board is about to give this thread a run for your money. It seems to be striking a nerve.


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## haparks (Apr 12, 2006)

*i think ur right*

if all of us driving diesals cood burn cooking oil--prices would come down



John Galt said:


> I think Pilar's "My wife broke up all my trophies for dog chews" thread over on the Hunting board is about to give this thread a run for your money. It seems to be striking a nerve.


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## stew1tx (Oct 15, 2004)

Rod, I know, but tell that to the TCEQ that is saying biofuels produce higher NOX ratings and fall outdside of acceptable levels.


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## w_r_ranch (Jan 14, 2005)

rodwade said:


> Actually biofuels have less NOX then Diesel.


Actually I find John Deere to have more credibility (see page 5) IMHO:

http://www.uidaho.edu/bioenergy/biodieselED/workshop0904/Chao.pdf


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## rodwade (Feb 13, 2007)

You just need to adjust the timing...nothing beyond the current manufactures abilities.

1. "Adjustment of injection timing and engine operating temperature will result in these levels [of nitrogen oxides with biodiesel] being reduced below mineral diesel levels." -- Dr Kerr Walker, Scottish Agricultural College, 1994, in "Biodiesel from Rapeseed", Journal of the Royal Agricultural Society of England, Volume 155, p. 43-4.

2. "Nitrous Oxides (NOx) are reported by several researchers to be increased with Biodiesel. However, our own data shows a reduction in nitrous oxides, very consistently, throughout all these [dynamometer] tests. NOx started at 6.2 gm/mile for diesel and goes down to around 5.6 gm/mile with 100% ester (Biodiesel), with slightly more reduction with REE (rapeseed ethyl ester) than RME (rapeseed methyl ester)... Emissions results for 100 percent ester compared with diesel control fuel show a 53% reduction in HC (Hydrocarbons), a 50% reduction in CO (Carbon monoxide), 10% reduction in NOx and 13.6% increase in PM (particulate matter)." -- "Toxicology, Biodegradability and Environmental Benefits of Biodiesel", Charles L. Peterson and Daryl Reece, Professor and Engineering Technician, Department of Agricultural Engineering, University of Idaho, 1994

3. "Fueling with biodiesel/diesel fuel blends reduced particulate matter (PM), total hydrocarbons (THC), and carbon monoxide (CO), while increasing oxides of nitrogen (NOx). Retarded fuel injection timing reduced NOx emissions while maintaining the other emissions reductions." -- "6V-92TA DDC Engine Exhaust Emission Tests using Methyl Ester [Biodiesel]", L. G. Schumacher (Department of Agricultural Engineering at the University of Missouri), D. Fosseen, W. Goetz, S. C. Borgelt, W. G. Hires (1995) in Bioresource Technology, 1995

4. "As the concentration of biodiesel increased, the oxides of nitrogen [NOx] emissions increased. The B20A20 fuel blend effectively reduced the oxides of nitrogen emissions below that of baseline diesel fuel. Retarding the timing was an effective way of reducing NOx emissions when fueling with the biodiesel blends. Oxides of nitrogen emissions ... can be successfully reduced below that of baseline diesel fuel by either retarding injection timing or replacing 20 percent of the baseline diesel fuel of the B20 blend with heavy alkylate." -- "Engine Exhaust Emissions Evaluation of a Cummins L10E When Fueled with a Biodiesel Blend", William Marshall, Leon G. Schumacher, Steve Howell (1995), Society of Automotive Engineers, SAE Paper # 952363
[B20 = a blend of 20% biodiesel with 80% conventional low sulfur petroleum diesel fuel
B20A20 = a blend of 20% biodiesel and 20% heavy alkylate with 60% conventional low-sulfur petroleum diesel fuel]

5. "Nitrogen Oxides (NOx) emissions from biodiesel increase or decrease depending on the engine family and testing procedures. NOx emissions (a contributing factor in the localized formation of smog and ozone) from pure (100%) biodiesel increased in this test by 13 percent. However, biodiesel's lack of sulfur allows the use of NOx control technologies that cannot be used with conventional diesel. So, biodiesel NOx emissions can be effectively managed and efficiently eliminated as a concern of the fuel's use." -- US National Biodiesel Board, Biodiesel Report, April 1998, "Biodiesel First Alternative Fuel to Meet EPA Health Effects Requirement -- Positive environmental and health effects results for Biodiesel"
[Sulphur poisons catalytic converters. Sulphur content of low-sulphur conventional diesel fuel: 0.05 percentage weight. Sulphur content of methyl ester biodiesel: less than 0.001 percentage weight.]

6. "There are reliable, proven methods for baselining or even reducing Nitrous Oxides (NOx) produced when using biodiesel. I have certified emissions for the urban bus retrofit program with EPA (US Environmental Protection Agency) using this technology. This package included use of an oxidation catalyst to maximize Particulate Matter (PM) reductions (taking advantage of the high soluble organic fraction of biodiesel) and a timing change to give up some PM reductions while reducing NOx to baseline or even past baseline -- the best case was a 28% NOx reduction with a 25% PM reduction." -- (From a personal communication, Ming Tseng, Aiko Associates LLC, USA, biodiesel suppliers)


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## haparks (Apr 12, 2006)

*I Am Not Burning Bio Diesal*

I AM NOT BURNING BIO DIESAL---ITS STRAIT COOKING OIL:dance: *FREE*COOKING OIL



rodwade said:


> You just need to adjust the timing...nothing beyond the current manufactures abilities.
> 
> 1. "Adjustment of injection timing and engine operating temperature will result in these levels [of nitrogen oxides with biodiesel] being reduced below mineral diesel levels." -- Dr Kerr Walker, Scottish Agricultural College, 1994, in "Biodiesel from Rapeseed", Journal of the Royal Agricultural Society of England, Volume 155, p. 43-4.
> 
> ...


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## stew1tx (Oct 15, 2004)

Rod, I am with ya. But, the TCEQ is quoting and advertising biodiesel has an elevated NOx emission. I am a proponent of home brewing, and getting ready to start myself. I know what is going on but who am I to tell anyone anything, especially since I am in the Oil and Gas industry. They believe what they are preaching since they shut down the biod industry in Texas essentially. Can't stop you from home brewing though.

HA- if your mixing a cooking oil or anything it is classified as bio diesel. Bio because it is, well think about the meaning of the word. I didnt make the definition up, someone else did. Your dilution would be considered biodiesel. It is what it is. I am neutral in this. Any biodiesel is made with cooking oil, free oil hopefully.


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## Stumpgrinder (Feb 18, 2006)

Keep on gloating on that FREE cooking oil and it wont be free much longer... just a thought.

Good luck in your gathering.

Energy costs are cyclical. they always have been and I honestly believe they will come back down to a more manageable level. Still, we Americans have got to change our consumption habits. If not, we will continue to be enslaved by the whims of the global energy market.


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## w_r_ranch (Jan 14, 2005)

w_r_ranch said:


> *FOOD CRISIS: Global backlash building against ethanol fuels...
> *
> 
> Ethanol was a bad decision however congress will eventually "see the light" & retract their ill-advised decision regarding ethanol, however the taxpayers will still be responsible for paying off the investors of the ethanol plants themselves. Congress screwed the pooch once again.... Their playing with the food chain has started a chain reaction that may end up starting a number of conflicts as nations try to feed their populations.
> ...


*
Condoleezza concedes biofuels may spur food price rises...*


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## CentexPW (Jun 22, 2004)

Haparks, Ive been running wvo/diesel blend for 2 years. I run a 2000 f250 7.3L. My mix is 50/50. You have to clean it like crazy. Filter, cook, settle, filter, filter, blend. Ive found that adding 5% diesel in the early stages helps settle out the particulates. I have the single 26 gal fuel tank. So when the low fuel light comes on I know it is at about 22 gal. So I added 12 gal of diesel @ 3.99 ( HEB Buda ) 50.00 and then to my shop and added 10 gals clean wvo. Ive also put a auxiliary Racor prefilter on the frame rail near the tank. BTW I'm in the restaurant service industry so I have multiple sources.


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## Chris (Aug 2, 2004)

I'll say this, call me crazy if you want, but if you haven't read "Patriots" by John Wesley Rawls, you might want to pick up a copy. 

Inflation is about to go through the roof, and it looks like nothing is going to stop it. It's only going to get worse. Gas, food, interest rates, etc. It's a downhill spiral.


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## rodwade (Feb 13, 2007)

Stumpgrinder said:


> Keep on gloating on that FREE cooking oil and it wont be free much longer... just a thought.
> 
> Good luck in your gathering.
> 
> Energy costs are cyclical. they always have been and I honestly believe they will come back down to a more manageable level. Still, we Americans have got to change our consumption habits. If not, we will continue to be enslaved by the whims of the global energy market.


Stump consumption has nothing to do with it.....we lower consumption and OPEC closes the gates....we saw it in the 80's, then they let loose the oil....what happened to the oil companies with billions invested in projects when all of a sudden their 10% margin applies to something that looses 70% or more of it's value? Only the O&G companies with deep pockets survive.


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## rodwade (Feb 13, 2007)

Centex do you have any diagrams of your Bio processor?


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## Freshwaterman (May 21, 2004)

_*In today's - New York Times*_

April 29, 2008

*Oil Price Rise Fails to Open Tap *

By JAD MOUAWAD
As oil prices soared to record levels in recent years, basic economics suggested that consumption would fall and supplies would rise as producers drilled for more oil.

But as prices flirt with $120 a barrel, many energy experts are becoming worried that neither seems to be happening. Higher prices have done little to suppress global demand or attract new production, and the resulting mismatch has sent oil prices ever higher.

That has translated into more pain at the pump, with gasoline setting a fresh record of $3.60 a gallon nationwide on Monday. Experts expect prices above $4 a gallon this summer, and one analyst recently predicted that gasoline could reach $7 in the next four years.

A central reason that oil supplies are not rising much is that major producers outside the OPEC cartel, like Russia, Mexico and Norway, are showing troubling signs of sluggishness. Unlike OPEC, whose explicit goal is to regulate the supply of oil to keep prices up, these countries are the free traders of the oil market, with every incentive to produce flat-out at a time of high prices.

But for a variety of reasons, including sharply higher drilling costs and a rise of nationalistic policies that restrict foreign investment, these countries are failing to increase their output. They seem stuck at about 50 million barrels of oil a day, or 60 percent of the world's oil supplies, with few prospects for growth.

"According to normal economic theory, and the history of oil, rising prices have two major effects," said Fatih Birol, the chief economist at the International Energy Agency in Paris. "They reduce demand and they induce oil supplies. Not this time."

With global supplies tight, geopolitics continue to play a big role in pushing up oil prices. Oil futures closed at $118.75 a barrel, up 23 cents, on the New York Mercantile Exchange, after strikes by oil workers in Scotland and Nigeria that shut down nearly 1.7 percent of the world's daily production.

Countries outside the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries have been the main source of production growth in the past three decades, as new fields were discovered in Alaska, the North Sea and the Caspian region.

But analysts at Barclays Capital said last week that non-OPEC supplies were "seemingly dead in the water." Goldman Sachs raised similar concerns last month, saying that growth in non-OPEC supplies "can no longer be taken for granted."

At the same time, oil consumption keeps expanding. Global consumption is forecast to increase by 1.2 million barrels a day this year, to 87.2 million barrels a day, with much of the growth in demand coming from China, India and the Middle East, according to the International Energy Agency, a group that advises industrialized countries.

In the United States and through much of the developed world, the higher fuel prices have led drivers to reduce their consumption, and gasoline demand is expected to drop this year. But that drop will be more than offset by the rise in energy demand from developing countries. In the next two decades, demand is projected to jump by 35 percent, and developing countries will consume more oil than industrialized countries.

Higher oil prices mean record profits for oil companies that have, to some extent, masked the supply problems. Exxon Mobil and Chevron are both expected to deliver knockout performances when reporting quarterly earnings this week, even as they struggle to increase production.

"What is disturbing here is that things seem to get worse, not better," said David Greely, an analyst at Goldman Sachs. "These high prices are not attracting meaningful new supplies."

The outlook for oil supplies "signals a period of unprecedented scarcity," Jeff Rubin, an analyst at CIBC World Markets, said last week. Oil prices might exceed $200 a barrel by 2012, he said, a level that would very likely mean $7-a-gallon gasoline in the United States.

Some regions are simply running out of reserves. Norway's production has slumped by 25 percent since its peak in 2001, and in Britain, output has dropped 43 percent in eight years. Production from the giant Prudhoe Bay field in Alaska has dropped by 65 percent from its peak two decades ago.

In many other places, the problems are not below ground, as energy executives like to put it, but above ground. Higher petroleum taxes and more costly licensing agreements, a scarcity of workers and swelling costs, as well as political wrangling and violence, are making it harder to raise production.

"It's a crunch," said J. Robinson West, chairman of PFC Energy, an energy consulting firm in Washington. "The world is not running out of oil, but rather it's running out of oil production capacity."

Mexico, the second-biggest exporter to the United States, seems increasingly helpless to find new supplies to offset the collapse of its largest oil field, Cantarell. A combination of falling production and rising domestic consumption could wipe out Mexico's exports within five years.

Foreign investment could help Mexico produce oil from deeper waters, but that is a controversial proposition in a country where oil has long been seen as part of the national patrimony.

Another country, Russia, is also a focus of analysts' worries. Russia is not exactly running out of places to look for oil - a huge chunk of eastern Siberia remains unexplored - and the country has been the biggest contributor to the growth in energy supplies in the last decade.

But Russian energy officials warned recently that the days of stunning growth that followed the collapse of the Soviet Union were over, as the country focuses on stabilizing its output. Russia today produces about 10 million barrels of oil a day, up from a low of 6 million barrels in 1996.

The Russian government has been muscling Western companies to gain more control over its energy resources. That rise in energy nationalism could freeze new investment and slow any meaningful growth in supplies there for years.

As countries like Russia slow output, analysts say OPEC will have to pick up the slack. The oil cartel accounts for 40 percent of the world's oil exports and owns more than 75 percent of global reserves. But there are serious concerns that OPEC will also find it tough to increase production.

Saudi Arabia, the world's top oil exporter, is completing a $50 billion plan to increase capacity to 12.5 million barrels a day, but it signaled recently that it would not go beyond that. That means Saudi Arabia could fall short of the 15 million barrels a day that most experts had expected it to produce in the long run.

OPEC's 13 members plan to spend $150 billion to expand their capacity by five million barrels a day by 2012. But OPEC will need to pump 60 million barrels a day by 2030, up from around 36 million barrels a day today, to meet the projected growth in demand. Analysts say that without Iran and Iraq - where nearly 30 years of wars and sanctions have crippled oil production - reaching that level will be impossible.

Not everyone is pessimistic about energy supplies. A study by the National Petroleum Council, an industry group that provides advice to the secretary of energy, concluded that the world still had plenty of petroleum resources that could be tapped.

In fact, high prices have set off a global dash for oil. Brazil, for example, has struck large offshore fields that could turn the country into one of the world's top 10 producers. But developing new fields can take many years.

To make up the shortfall, the world is also increasingly turning to fuels from unconventional sources, like biofuels or heavy oil. Canadian tar sands, for example, have attracted large investments.

But the International Energy Agency estimates that current investments will be insufficient to replace declining oil production. The energy agency said it would take $5.4 trillion by 2030 to raise global output. *Otherwise, it warned that a crisis before 2015 involving "an abrupt run-up in prices" could not be ruled out.*


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## John Galt (Aug 6, 2006)

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/JubaksJournal/WhyWereStuckWithInsanePrices.aspx

Jim Jubak has a great article on how the law of supply and demand has been repealed. Good read.

"Convenience Yield." We used to see that in the summer, when power prices hit $3,000 per MWH.

Note: Prices drop faster than they run, though....


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## haparks (Apr 12, 2006)

u lucky dog its getting harder and harder to find this free cooking oil



CentexPW said:


> Haparks, Ive been running wvo/diesel blend for 2 years. I run a 2000 f250 7.3L. My mix is 50/50. You have to clean it like crazy. Filter, cook, settle, filter, filter, blend. Ive found that adding 5% diesel in the early stages helps settle out the particulates. I have the single 26 gal fuel tank. So when the low fuel light comes on I know it is at about 22 gal. So I added 12 gal of diesel @ 3.99 ( HEB Buda ) 50.00 and then to my shop and added 10 gals clean wvo. Ive also put a auxiliary Racor prefilter on the frame rail near the tank. BTW I'm in the restaurant service industry so I have multiple sources.


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## CentexPW (Jun 22, 2004)

*diagram*



rodwade said:


> Centex do you have any diagrams of your Bio processor?


I dont have anything drawn up but I can, give me a few days.


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## rodwade (Feb 13, 2007)

I've got a Clearwater pump from HF which is part of the "appleseed" reactor and all the steel piping. I just need the water heater. How much is methanol running you?


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## Spec-Rig.006 (Nov 2, 2007)

haparks said:


> ... i know for a fact he does not work as hard as i do ...


Don't be too sure about that ... he might not be worth employing at 15 mil but that cushy office job in the "evil" oil tower is no cake walk ... high stress, high demand, endless responsibility, jaded media coverage, etc etc etc ...

By the way ... if you're going to use veggie oil in your desil mix ... it has to be cured with lye or you'll destroy your engine over time. Google how and get a conversion kit for your garage or you'll be replacing that engine in a year or two.


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