# ooops Illegal deer



## neckdeep (Oct 12, 2004)

guy I work with shot a 11 inch 6 pt near Paris over the weekend. Took it to the processer and was informed that it was illegal, the guy there gave him the Game Warden's #, he (the hunter) called and reported himself. Apparently he read the material and messed up. Anyone know the penalty or fine for this. He did get a citation for a illegal deer


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## rost495 (May 24, 2006)

Local guy rumor has it, (rule is not new here) just ended up with almost 10K in fines from same issue.

Usually they are not as bad the first year. And usually a bit better for reporting yourself.

Jeff


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## neckdeep (Oct 12, 2004)

he said this was the 1st year they have the rule in his county and i do believe he is a little trigger happy. Said it may costs $500.00 

Yikes for a 6 ptr


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## redfishflyfisherdds (Mar 16, 2005)

Now thats just being a little too honest.....sorry. Deer would either be processed at home or thrown in the ditch before I called the game warden on myself...especially if I unknowingly took an illegal deer.


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## rost495 (May 24, 2006)

Its usually been like a severe speeding ticket first go round. After that they are serious about it. 

I"m not so sure about it all legally, IE can they or should they tell us what to shoot? BUT its really increased the deer population in my area a lot, and provided much better bucks. Though there is a lull there for a few years.

Thankfully, IMHO, they also did it in Crockett NF where I hunt. There should be some really super bucks in that area since the pressure will be off the young ones.

Jeff


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## justletmein (Feb 11, 2006)

majekflats said:


> Now thats just being a little too honest.....sorry. Deer would either be processed at home or thrown in the ditch before I called the game warden on myself...especially if I unknowingly took an illegal deer.


Exactly what I was going to say. It doesn't do any good to report yourself, just learn from your mistake and don't do it again.


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## LIONESS-270 (May 19, 2005)

majekflats said:


> Now thats just being a little too honest.....sorry. Deer would either be processed at home or thrown in the ditch before I called the game warden on myself...especially if I unknowingly took an illegal deer.


Your Joking Right...about the throwing in the ditch part???

I feel bad for this gentleman...But its his and all hunters responsibilities to check and know the rules.....

If not...why have any...









Chief


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## JWRIGHT (Apr 6, 2006)

*Buck*



justletmein said:


> Exactly what I was going to say. It doesn't do any good to report yourself, just learn from your mistake and don't do it again.


RIGHT!!


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## neckdeep (Oct 12, 2004)

he was already at the place which processes the deer and they had a biologist there checking and weighing all deer so he was kinda already busted. He did say that maybe he should have just drove off but didn't


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## Charles Helm (Oct 22, 2004)

I think he did the right thing, but maybe there is something wrong with me. I am pretty sure TPWD agrees as well.


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## SSMike (Aug 15, 2005)

No freaking way I turn myself in..... Whatever. The deer is processed at the ranch and I try not to let it happen again.


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## Woodrow (Jun 17, 2004)

chiefcharlie said:


> Your Joking Right...about the throwing in the ditch part???
> 
> I feel bad for this gentleman...But its his and all hunters responsibilities to check and know the rules.....
> 
> ...


That is what I was thinking...


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## BillLovesFishin (Oct 7, 2004)

I did the same thing years ago when I caught a 15" red at Lake Houston dam. I called the game warden and explained to them what I did since it was fresh water and I had never caught a red befoere. They sent me an $85 fine and a few weeks later I recieved a $45 restocking fee. Paid both.


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## Mr Mudbug (Apr 12, 2006)

I hope the fines for thowing it in a ditch are higher than 500 bucks.

If in doubt don't shoot. That's covered in the Hunter Education class.


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## Landcruiser (Nov 2, 2006)

They make plenty off God's natural resources. Don't give them any extra.


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## peelin' drag (Oct 21, 2005)

If meat is what you want, there are plenty of skillet heads.


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## Freshwaterman (May 21, 2004)

The Game Warden told us at Brazos Bend that if you bring in a buck that measures less than 13" it is a class 3 misdemeanor and may cost between $200.00 to $1,200.00 depending on the Judge. If you get caught trying to drag it off in the woods or ditch, it is a Felony.


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## troutslayer (Feb 7, 2006)

Next year TPWD is inposing a new law that requires hunters and fishermen to have lawyers in the deer stand or boat when engaged in any activity that involves taking of game or non-game species in the state of Texas.....LMAO

TS............ATN


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## bountyhunter (Jul 6, 2005)

chiefcharlie said:


> Your Joking Right...about the throwing in the ditch part???
> 
> I feel bad for this gentleman...But its his and all hunters responsibilities to check and know the rules.....
> 
> ...


As always Chief you hit the nail on the head! It is our responsibility as hunters to know all the rules and game laws for the area we are hunting and to follow them!


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## TooShallow (May 21, 2004)

Honesty is always best in these cases. It will come back to haunt you some way or another. If you mess up then admit it and take your medicine. This type of mentality about not reporting it, cleaning it in camp, throwing it in a ditch, etc. is what is so wrong with our society today. Can you say ENRON.


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## justletmein (Feb 11, 2006)

No, I have to disagree. ENRON purposely and repeatedly committed the offenses. This is not the case with this deer. In this case the dude made a mistake and will most likely make every effort to NOT do it again. If that's the case I would not blame him for trying to get out of the fine as long as he doesn't toss it in a ditch. If he simply grabbed the deer and left that would be OK with me, as long as he makes the effort to not repeat the mistake.



TooShallow said:


> Honesty is always best in these cases. It will come back to haunt you some way or another. If you mess up then admit it and take your medicine. This type of mentality about not reporting it, cleaning it in camp, throwing it in a ditch, etc. is what is so wrong with our society today. Can you say ENRON.


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## big john o (Aug 12, 2005)

We have the new 13'' restriction in effect on our place, and I have already seen it happen. A guy (not going to name any names) killed a 12 1/4'' I.S.. I know if I, or anyone else, saw this deer they would pull the trigger. The deer was mature, and the rack was outside the ears. Although I agree with the law in place, and would not shoot a deer any smaller anyway, sometimes its hard to tell "on the hoof"...so what will they come out with next??.....go, go gadget antler measurer.


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## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

I sincerely hope that anyone who posted on this thread advocating dumping an illegal deer they shot in order to hide their screw up were joking. 

Even joking about it is in poor taste and this isn't the place to post crud like that.

TH


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## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

*big john 0*



big john o said:


> We have the new 13'' restriction in effect on our place, and I have already seen it happen. A guy (not going to name any names) killed a 12 1/4'' I.S.. I know if I, or anyone else, saw this deer they would pull the trigger. The deer was mature, and the rack was outside the ears. Although I agree with the law in place, and would not shoot a deer any smaller anyway, sometimes its hard to tell "on the hoof"...so what will they come out with next??.....go, go gadget antler measurer.


From talking to Game Wardens when the 13" rule was put into effect in our county, if the antlers are outside of the ears in the alert position, that is what the state has told us to look at to determine the 13" rule. Now if the deer just had a small head and the antlers were outside the ears but not 13", that would be a "gotta let you go" scenario.

TH


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## waterspout (May 21, 2004)

Trouthunter said:


> From talking to Game Wardens when the 13" rule was put into effect in our county, if the antlers are outside of the ears in the alert position, that is what the state has told us to look at to determine the 13" rule. Now if the deer just had a small head and the antlers were outside the ears but not 13", that would be a "gotta let you go" scenario.
> 
> TH


Agree, I argued this in another thread. State said to measure it that way. He needs to take pics and take them with him if he's fined.


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## neckdeep (Oct 12, 2004)

he just called and was told the fine is $160.00


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## warlock (Mar 27, 2006)

I shot a deer that was outside the ears this last week and was shocked after measuring it that it was exactly 13 inches...older buck probably 4 1/2 and heavy horns. I consider my self experianced and did not think it would go under 14 after glassing the deer in the alert position. The new lesson to me was ears may be used but they could also get you in trouble in a managed county...I know the intent of the law and I support it but there is a big differance between a 1 1/2 year old basket buck and this older deer...glad to see a warden may be instructed to look at ears prior to issueing a citation.


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## sumbeech (May 19, 2005)

We hunt public land in a county with these restrictions, also limited to one buck, therefore I will not shoot anything even close, but my son did. After meeting up with him, he tells me that the horns are about a 1/2" or so outside the ears, upon arriving at his deer, I saw what he said was true, but didn't look 13" to me. Got it to the truck and the G.W. shows up and promptly pulls out the ole tape measure and tapes him at 12 7/8". After listening to my son's account of what happened and milling around a bit, he wrote a warning but said don't let it happen again. The concept is great and I love it, but to stew over an 1/8" as long as he did seemed a little extreme to me. Good thing is - my 16 yr. old will never again shoot anything but a "No-Doubter", which makes me happy.

Tony


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## StinkBait (May 31, 2004)

Trouthunter said:


> From talking to Game Wardens when the 13" rule was put into effect in our county, if the antlers are outside of the ears in the alert position, that is what the state has told us to look at to determine the 13" rule. Now if the deer just had a small head and the antlers were outside the ears but not 13", that would be a "gotta let you go" scenario.
> 
> TH


Me and another guy had that discussion here at work last week because I told him my wife wanted to shoot a buck. I told him we had some older cull bucks but I wasn't comfortable shooting anything that I didn't know FOR SURE was bigger than 13". He said the same above, well if the state tells you to go by the ears then they can't ticket you. I really don't feel that way, I would bet the GW can write you a ticket on the spot if he wanted. Now that being said, I am sure the GW's have dealt with enough people that when you start talking to him he will know if you are just slaughtering deer or simply made a mistake that you hope to learn from.

It will be interesting to hear what the fines are for these things since more counties have come on line with the rules.


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## tufffish (May 11, 2006)

glad to see the fine was minimal. now if he had thrown the deer away and been caught and hit with a felony would you all agree to hide the deer. remember that it only takes making one friend mad that knows of what happened and if they call operation game thief and report you, the real trouble starts. i am sure that the biologist at the processing place would have taken the license plate and called the game warden. by calling himself he will have to pay a small fine, but will not be in serious trouble. i myself do not think the law is fair to private landowners but it is the law.


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## rost495 (May 24, 2006)

I believe, and might be wrong as I don't have a copy of the rules handy, that the state uses ears as a reference but also states plainly, 13 inches will be enforced, and if in doubt at all don't shoot. That's pretty clear to me. Deer don't all have 13 inch ears. Thats for sure. 

BTW there is a way to help verify, if anyone is interested. If you have a variable scope, then put 2 marks on your feeder, 13 inches apart. OR put out a 13 inch piece of pipe where you expect to see the deer. Bracket the pipe or marks with the scope power, transfer to antlers and you have a way of helping make up your mind.

There is no way to make this law perfect, so we just have to repeal it or live with it regardless. It still allows deer to young to be shot, and some that are true culls that can never be shot. But its a start. Not sure I agree with it at all, but we have it for the time being.

I'm suprised at the 12 and 7/8 inch decision, if you give an 1/8, then where do you stop? They always said you get half an inch on fish, but I wouldn't bet on it. Just like that 5mph or so. Not that I agree or disagree so much, just surprised.

The one area where I did see someone get a ticket -- and heads up here if you shoot a young one thats close!!!-- cut the antlers off and you'll loose some spread. Maybe half an inch or so. So if you shoot on thats 13 or just a bit over(I won't take the chance on one that close) you might want to put a ruler in there and take a good pic before cutting it off. Local guy shot one they swear was just over 13. Had it mounted. Dried later on and it was a bit under. Got a ticket for it after the fact. I'd have fought it for sure. I have a buck that was a bit over 18 inches wide outside when shot. Many years later, IE about 10, I go to measure it and its barely 17 outside... Thats also why they force heads to dry 60 days (IIRC) before scoring. 

Jeff


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## Third Coast Fishing (Feb 23, 2006)

Years ago I shot at a buck that was running (more like hopping) through a tall Johnson Grass field and shot when he was going up, shot right under him and hit a yearling doe on the other side of him. So I field dressed it, tied it up in a tree and went to the closest store and used the pay phone (before cellulars) to call the Game Warden. I told him what had happened and he said that he would still have to issue me a ticket and wanted to know where I was. Next thing he heard was; Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!


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## baldhunter (Oct 8, 2004)

Back in my younger days I hunted in Wharton,Lavaca and Jackson counties.One place we hunted in Lavaca County was near Sublime,Texas.That place had the smallest deer in Texas!My Dad killed an eight point that I remember weighing,field dressed at a whopping 58lbs.!Down here in South Texas our fawns weigh that much.I killed an eight off that place that I'm sure was a mature buck.His antlers are dark and heavy and at the time was one of the best bucks I had ever killed.I got the head mounted and his spread is only 12"!Here's the kicker,his ears in the alert position measures 10" across,so his antlers were outside his ears.I have another head from a buck I killed in Jim Hogg County,he measures 14" across the ears.The Outdoor Annual states "ears in the alert position are approximately 13".So it's a tough call.All deer statewide are not created equal.I understand the reason behind the law and something needed to be done in those Counties with the antler restrictions,but dang some of those fines are steep.I'm glad I don't hunt in those counties and I'm glad I'm not a Game Warden either.I wouldn't throw one in the ditch if he didn't measure up,but a bullet placed right below the antlers as he jumped up and started running away might actually increase the spread a bit.


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## tps7742 (Aug 23, 2005)

I feel I understand the rule for the 13" but comments on the 16 year old and the 1/8", give me a break. When all of us were allot younger if this rule was in effect would we still be hunting as much as we do? It' been proven that there aren't new younger hunters racing to the woods. Where's the future headed? With the way salaries are headed for our younger generation the hunting opportunities for the average person will disappear (at least in Texas).


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## bearintex (Feb 7, 2006)

Is there any stature of limitations on this? Say you've got a mistake head that was taken the first year of the 13" rule (which was 3 years ago). Is there any chance of getting a ticket for it?


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## troutslayer (Feb 7, 2006)

Wow!!!! Hear I am trying to raise a son to be respectful of all of the laws of the Gov. and I hear all of this BS on this forum.....guess he DONT NEED TO SEE THIS sh**

I dont hunt in a restricted county....but if I did..... a buck close to the 13" dont get ground checked....


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## B-Money (May 2, 2005)

I'm going to carry me a pair of scissors in my pack. That way, I can trim the ears to fit the rack!


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## Mr Mudbug (Apr 12, 2006)

troutslayer said:


> Wow!!!! Hear I am trying to raise a son to be respectful of all of the laws of the Gov. and I hear all of this BS on this forum.....guess he DONT NEED TO SEE THIS sh**
> 
> I dont hunt in a restricted county....but if I did..... a buck close to the 13" dont get ground checked....


Couldn't agree with you more, if you want deer meat that bad shoot a doe, there's a reason these rules had to be implemented in the 1st place, they probably were over harvesting the buck population. Once this rule is in place at least 5 years there will be a huge difference in the type of deer that are being killed. Personally I would to see them remove the spike exception, but that another story.


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## michaelbaranowski (May 24, 2004)

I total again the rule has help the buck population. But several years ago I shot that was a very nice buck and I am still very proud of. He has heavy antlers with an inside measurement of 12 3/4". I show a buck guy shot a few weeks ago that when you place its antlers beside mine you can see it is not near as nice. It is thinner which allows it to measure 13 1/4".


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## big john o (Aug 12, 2005)

troutslayer said:


> Wow!!!! Hear I am trying to raise a son to be respectful of all of the laws of the Gov. and I hear all of this BS on this forum.....guess he DONT NEED TO SEE THIS sh**
> 
> I dont hunt in a restricted county....but if I did..... a buck close to the 13" dont get ground checked....


Your two statements contradict each other (or maybe I'm misinterpreting).

None-the-less, the 13'' restriction will increase the probability for fines to normally law abiding hunters simply because there is no real way to determine 12 3/4'' from 13 1/4'' on the hoof. I understand the reasons for the 13'' factor, and would like to see more mature deer on our place, but some deer (in East Texas) will never reach 13'' in their lifetime. If the ultimate goal is to increase antler growth, then maybe these need to be taken out of the heard. I want my kids to enjoy hunting and the outdoors, but with these kind of restrictions in place they may get frustrated and bored with sitting in a stand, and waiting for a legal deer. I would not take a deer which appeared to be under 13'' myself, but I have when I was young. I personally think this law is rediculous, and dont see how it can be effectivley enforced without controversy.


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## Rine_Everett (Jun 3, 2004)

I will follow the law. I don't like it and will try to get it changed but I don't like it. If I hunt for meat and sport, I just want to kill the first deer that gives me a clean shot and start the fire, not have to look to see if it is going to be a legal deer. Why do you think I have killed three doe this year... the bucks are following them and I ain't waiting on no stupid deer i don't care about the antlers, I just wanna fill the freezer. Now if grandpa walks out like he owns the place then I will shoot him as well but I can't eat the horns. Yes big bucks are nice and yes IF I was to be INVITED to hunt on a place and they wanted bucks killed but not doe then I would of course follow that rule. I am afraid we will all end up with basket 8's in 10 or 15 years because all the real big deer will get shot and the only deer left will be the runty ones that I keep hearing refered to as culls.


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## Sharkhunter (May 22, 2004)

*speeding ticket*

I remember the time I went 45mph in a 40mph zone by accident , once seeing my mustake I pulled over and call the police and turn myself in, well they just laughed at me lol.


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## justletmein (Feb 11, 2006)

Sharkhunter said:


> I remember the time I went 45mph in a 40mph zone by accident , once seeing my mustake I pulled over and call the police and turn myself in, well they just laughed at me lol.


LOL


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## Third Coast Fishing (Feb 23, 2006)

*Size Matters in Texas!*



troutslayer said:


> Wow!!!! Hear I am trying to raise a son to be respectful of all of the laws of the Gov. and I hear all of this BS on this forum.....guess he DONT NEED TO SEE THIS sh**
> 
> I dont hunt in a restricted county....but if I did..... a buck close to the 13" dont get ground checked....


I know that in my area (Guadalupe County) this law came about by TPWD going around from county to county conducting polls and having open discussion forums with (hunters) and what we wanted as a management plan for our buck deer. Most hunters voted for this 13" min. restriction because everyone wants to see BIGGER ANTLERS! Now we have hunters pitted against other hunters on what to do if your 16 year old kid makes a (mistake) and shoots a buck less than 13" wide! PETA is probably just drooling over this! Maybe TPWD should have given the answer to the question; "What is the ethical thing to do if you or your 16 year old kid makes a (mistake) and smokes a 12 1/2" wide buck?" I know when I was 16, if they had horns, THEY ALL LOOKED LIKE BOONER'S! Ever heard (or had) Buck Fever? Maybe in todays quest for giant racks we have all (TPWD included) forgotten about what deer hunting is all about. I do think that it's a sad day when an otherwise law abiding hunter, that got caught up in the rush of adrenaline when they saw those antlers coming through the brush, only to find out after the shot that their trophy wasn't WIDE ENOUGH, then has to make a decision on whether or not to call the GW and then have a judge decide his/her fate, or to throw it in a ditch and be branded as an unethical hunter/human by his piers, or to roll the dice (BTW, this would be my personal choice!) and be a pure outlaw and smuggle his inferior/illegal trophy buck home. IMHO, this is just one more perfect example of how the quest for trophy antlers is leading to the demise of deer hunting in Texas. TCF


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## Rack Ranch (May 25, 2004)

For what it's worth we have shot 2 bucks on our ranch in years past with spreads under 13'' that scored over 140'' (one was 148 gross)..Our ranch is in a county that went under restrictions this year..From now on those 6 year old 140's will have to walk ???
There both on web-site www.rackranch.org


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## Pocboy (Aug 12, 2004)

As to the 16 year old with the 12 7/8 buck, could the GW have been trying to make a point and properly scared a youngster into realizing the importance of being sure of what he shoots. I'll bet he never makes that mistake again. Also, I was told (not by anyone of any official capacity) that half the bucks killed in Victoria county last year were under the 13 in. limit and that warnings were issued. Also that they would not be nearly as lenient this year.


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## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

*And Rine...*



Rine_Everett said:


> Why do you think I have killed three doe this year... the bucks are following them and I ain't waiting on no stupid deer *i don't care about the antlers,* I just wanna fill the freezerQUOTE]
> 
> Then the law doesn't really apply to you if you don't care about the antlers. Just keep on shooting doe and don't worry about it.
> 
> ...


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## Rine_Everett (Jun 3, 2004)

Trouthunter said:


> Then the law doesn't really apply to you if you don't care about the antlers. Just keep on shooting doe and don't worry about it.


I agree with you, but what if a 4 point walk out, I want the meat, now in Williamson county I cann't kill him. I saw one in Concho that IF he stops on the property again he will eat dirt. He is under 13 inches wide and a 4 pt to boot but he is really palmated on both sides, he looks really cool now, and since Concho county is not under the restrictions I can. There was a picture that someone posted awhile back of a 11 inch inside spread but a 20 point or something. If you let him breed he will pass that gene along and no one will be able to remove him from the gene pool. I would like to see the original part put back in that they had to have an inside spread of 13 inches or have more than 4 points on one side or a spike.

Meat is meat but when the bucks out weigh the does by 50-75 lbs I will shoot the buck because more meat.


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## justletmein (Feb 11, 2006)

Rine_Everett said:


> Meat is meat but when the bucks out weigh the does by 50-75 lbs I will shoot the buck because more meat.


On the same note, a 6.5 year old buck out weighs a 2.5 year old buck by a good amount also. If you give it a few years all these young deer that used to get shot will grow to the point of legal status and you can begin shooting them again. The antler restriction like this doesn't really change anything except for a few year delay in when you can start shooting. In a few years it won't matter anymore and everyone will be happy to kill their bucks and get an added bonus of larger antlers whether they care about them or not.


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## goatchze (Aug 1, 2006)

I think that Rine is on to something here, but the real point is that you can grumble on this board all you want. The laws are the laws...but they can be changed. If you don't like the 13" rule, write to TPWD why you don't and how a better...more fair...system might operate.

But just don't word it like this:

"I think the 13" rule is terrible and you're infringing on my rights to shoot whatever I want. Dumb arses."

That's probably not gonna get you very far.

Myself, I agree that there is definitely a need in certain areas for a rule like the 13" rule, or at least what it is trying to accomplish. However, I do think that there needs to be some exceptoins. If he's got 4-5 points on each side, has a rack that's twice as tall as it is wide, and is old with a belly that brushes the ground when he walks....he's probably got to go.

But they probably went with the strict 13" rule because there's no ambiguity and it gets the effect that they're after...older, more mature bucks in the population.


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## TX CHICKEN (Jun 4, 2004)

I hunt in Karnes cty and we are on year 2 of the antler restrictions. We see a few older deer every year that don't qualify as shooters. We have a new biologist this year and I heard from a neighboring land owner that they are looking into issuing permits to allow a few of these to deer to be harvested under MLD programs. I hope they really are looking into something like this.
Mike


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## capn (Aug 11, 2005)

I made my first deer hunt in several years this past weekend in a non-restricted county. I shot a six point that had no brow tines and was an older deer. It didn't make the 13 inch rule and I wouldn't have been able to shoot it in a restricted county, though most ranches would want that buck gone. I could care less, as my boy didn't care what it was as long as it was a deer and the horns could go on his wall. But, all of you "managers" of the herd that would call it a cull, would have been forced to see him breed.

My first deer was killed in a now restricted county. It was a 5-6 year old 6 point with about a 10 inch spread. It was the biggest bodied deer anyone's ever taken off the place to date, but now it would be illegal.

Bad rule.

And to those of you saying to just shoot does, what about the many counties that enforced antler restrictions this year in East Texas, but don't allow you to shoot does? It makes no sense.


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## TXPalerider (May 21, 2004)

*Not legal*

This is one of the problems I have with the new rule. I killed the buck below in 2000 in Victoria County. Today I could not. However, the biggest problem I have with the restrictions is the inability to shoot mature cull deer. You can't effectively manage a ranch in these counties without being Level III MLD.

Having said that, the program is accomplishing most of what it was set up to do....increase the number of bucks and the age structure of the herd. However, I've said from the beginning, TPWD better have an exit strategy in 5-6 years. Folks are gonna be just as PO'd about watching 6 year old, 12" wide 7 pt's eat all there corn as they were about seeing little bucks.

Just my 2 cents


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## Third Coast Fishing (Feb 23, 2006)

Nice one PR. Take that buck and add a small dose of adrenaline, there isn't too many hunters that wouldn't be sitting there scratching their arse while trying to figure out how they are going to fit that big SOB behind the seat of the truck! (Except for the .00001% who would turn theirselves in to the GW.)


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## txhoghtr (Aug 14, 2006)

With all the debate I wanded to say one thing. I hunt Colorado County and have for several years. This is one of the first groups of counties to adopt the 13 inch requirement. Since the inception our opinion has been if you have to ask yourself if the buck is legal then he is not. I have pounded it into my 12 year olds head and he is almost always right when deciding when to shoot. Most mistakes are made on angle instead of legal. Shoot for a buck well outside the ears instead of just outside the ears and no one would have this problem, after all thats the idea behind growing bigger bucks. Make sure it is legal and the ground shrinkage will not cost you.


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## Pocboy (Aug 12, 2004)

Capn, we cannot shoot does on our place in Victoria County and also have the antler restrictions in place. I saw two bucks a few weeks ago when I was not seriously hunting and both looked like they would pass muster, but after reading this thread I don't know if I would shood either. Decisions, decisions, decisions. With that being said I reluctantly support the restrictions because the buck population on our place has not always been that strong.


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## Third Coast Fishing (Feb 23, 2006)

txhoghtr said:


> With all the debate I wanded to say one thing. I hunt Colorado County and have for several years. This is one of the first groups of counties to adopt the 13 inch requirement. Since the inception our opinion has been if you have to ask yourself if the buck is legal then he is not. I have pounded it into my 12 year olds head and *he is almost always right * when deciding when to shoot. *Most mistakes are made * on angle instead of legal. Shoot for a buck well outside the ears instead of just outside the ears and no one would have this problem, after all thats the idea behind growing bigger bucks. Make sure it is legal and the ground shrinkage will not cost you.


So, just HOW MANY mistakes have been made? lol


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## expressfish (Jun 8, 2004)

Nice buck palerider, I'd never thought it was less that 13".


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## Mr Mudbug (Apr 12, 2006)

PR thats a nice buck, but whats wrong with letting him breed a couple of more years then shooting him when he is 5.5 or 6.5 years old, and even bigger. Hmmm........


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## TXPalerider (May 21, 2004)

Mr Mudbug said:


> PR thats a nice buck, but whats wrong with letting him breed a couple of more years then shooting him when he is 5.5 or 6.5 years old, and even bigger. Hmmm........


Uhhhh...because he was 6-1/2 when I killed him. Any suggestions?


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## big john o (Aug 12, 2005)

Call the GW.....


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## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

TXPalerider said:


> Uhhhh...because he was 6-1/2 when I killed him. Any suggestions?


That buck didn't make 13"?? Would have fooled me... he looks about 14" at least. Must be the angle fooling me.


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## troutslayer (Feb 7, 2006)

The bottom line is ....the law is the law...and you should adjust your hunting skills to make good decisions before you pull the trigger....But make no mistake I would never turn myself in to the GW.....It just blows me away how much outlawing goes on .....But I forgot ....we are talking about East Texas....where the leases aint very wide ...but there real long


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## TXPalerider (May 21, 2004)

Haute Pursuit said:


> That buck didn't make 13"?? Would have fooled me... he looks about 14" at least. Must be the angle fooling me.


12-1/4" or 12-1/2" I don't rememeber for sure. I have a to take a head on picture of the mount and post it.


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## RonE (Apr 10, 2006)

majekflats said:


> Now thats just being a little too honest.....sorry. Deer would either be processed at home or thrown in the ditch before I called the game warden on myself...especially if I unknowingly took an illegal deer.


What is it they say??? Oh yeah......If you are going to be a sucker, be a quiet sucker.


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## Trouthunter (Dec 18, 1998)

Hey Pale Guy, lol...you measure at the widest point, not the narrowest. That buck looks legal to me under the current 13" rule. 

TH


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## Texas Marine Clean (Apr 14, 2006)

*What are supposed to do ????*

Ears in alert position
are approximately
13 inches apart and
may be used to judge
the inside spread.








Go and ask the deer to calmly let you measure his horn before you shoot him??


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## TXPalerider (May 21, 2004)

Trouthunter said:


> .......... That buck looks legal to me under the current 13" rule.
> 
> TH


That's probably just the explanation I would have used with the GW had I seen that deer in 2006.


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## BigSandOne (Oct 27, 2004)

majekflats said:


> Now thats just being a little too honest.....sorry. Deer would either be processed at home or thrown in the ditch before I called the game warden on myself...especially if I unknowingly took an illegal deer.


Isn't there an old saying that goes: *Character* is defined by what you do when no one's looking?


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## TXPalerider (May 21, 2004)

BigSandOne said:


> Isn't there an old saying that goes: *Character* is defined by what you do when no one's looking?


Yeah. And how much room is behind your specific back seat. LOL :rotfl:

Sorry couldn't resist.


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## deke (Oct 5, 2004)

"I'm suprised at the 12 and 7/8 inch decision, if you give an 1/8, then where do you stop?"

Your kidding right?


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## bountyhunter (Jul 6, 2005)

Been doing a lot of thinking on this and giving an inside spread as guide for what you can kill and what you can't is going to always cause problems. Unlike fishing and you catch one too small there is no catch and release in hunting. I full understand why the rule is in place, and support the reasoning behind this rule, but it might be just as good to say you can't shoot any deer under 7 points if both sides branch. That would allow all the young 6s and forkhorns to walk at least another year, and allow some of them old basket 8s and 10s to be taken out of the gene pool.

With this being said, I am glad our property is not one that is restricted or that nasty, messed up 5 pointer I took out of the gene pool this past weekend would have still been walking. Though he would have also still been walking with the rule I proposed. Just don't know if there is a way to write this rule that would make eveyone happy and benefit the deer at the same time.


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## capn (Aug 11, 2005)

bountyhunter said:


> Just don't know if there is a way to write this rule that would make eveyone happy and benefit the deer at the same time.


I would propose a one deer limit instead of a one buck limit, or two deer instead of a two buck limit. In the years I was growing up in a one buck county, I would have GLADLY shot a doe for the meat and been content with my season. But I couldn't, so I instead waited for anything with antlers to walk by. It resulted in mostly young bucks around, and also a horrible buck to doe ratio. Let people that are after meat shoot the first deer they see, and the take of young deer gets evened out between the bucks and does.

It isn't going to happen any time soon. There are too many influential E Tex land owners who still refuse to believe that killing does is a good thing, and they have the political pull to keep it in place. The land owner on my duck lease is the same way. His kids deer hunt the place, and he won't let them shoot any does, even when they are legal. So, anything with horns gets busted.


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## Fish-a-mon (May 21, 2004)

If you let all your deer grow to 4.5 years or older you will not have this issue, until you have a year like this past one. DROUGHT DROUGHT DROUGHT. The biggest issue this year has been the lack of water. Buck rely for nutrition. Fawn counts are at all time low, which means less mature deer in 3.5 years. If the rain comes at the right time in '07 it will not have such a great impact. I really think the TPWD does a horrible job of getting that kind of information out to land owners. Same with the 13" rule. I've seen some very impressive Basket Racks that would score in the high 140's but under the rule set by TPWD these deer walk until they die of old age or hit by car hung in fence killed by coyote. They will breed every year passing the same genes. Yes some will grow wider, but if I'm faced with the decission to shoot a maybe or $$$$ , well I'm not going to pull the trigger. I say judge your deer by their body size. You can tell the difference between a 3.5 and a 5.5 or older. Anyone can tell the difference. Forget the horns, you can't eat then anyways.


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## haparks (Apr 12, 2006)

*real nice*

thats a real nice deer



TXPalerider said:


> This is one of the problems I have with the new rule. I killed the buck below in 2000 in Victoria County. Today I could not. However, the biggest problem I have with the restrictions is the inability to shoot mature cull deer. You can't effectively manage a ranch in these counties without being Level III MLD.
> 
> Having said that, the program is accomplishing most of what it was set up to do....increase the number of bucks and the age structure of the herd. However, I've said from the beginning, TPWD better have an exit strategy in 5-6 years. Folks are gonna be just as PO'd about watching 6 year old, 12" wide 7 pt's eat all there corn as they were about seeing little bucks.
> 
> Just my 2 cents


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## Haute Pursuit (Jun 26, 2006)

Give the antler restrictions 3 years and then see if it has done some good. All the guys I know who have places in the post oak savannah counties that have had it in place for awhile think it has helped alot.


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## Quint (Oct 20, 2006)

honesty best policy


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## B2 (Jun 11, 2004)

You have the right to remain silent. Exercise it!


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