# To Burn or not to Burn



## redmerc (Dec 6, 2007)

Emailed to our offices earlier today.
_You cant burn and I think alot of people are not fishing due to this rule. We would like to but can't do it._
_-----------------------------------------------------------------_
I find it interesting in the launching of our new tour in Louisiana, Florida and now Texas that Texas anglers are more concerned, request to be allowed to and down right say they won't fish if they can't "burn shorelines and flats" looking for redfish.

Does the other trails like Xtreme Redfish and Texas Redfish Series actually allow this practice of blazing back and forth down a shoreline or a flat to "stir up" and "out" the fish before circling back to cast to them?

The image of this is that it's not good for the enviroment, we already have tree huggers that would love to shut down all tournaments because of "perceived" damage to shorelines and such. As anglers do you guys really have to locate your fish this way?

I always heard redfish traveled in huge schools. Compared to bass fishing where anglers flip, pitch or cast blindly to areas that *look *like they would have fish, does redfish anglers really have to "spook" up their potential catch before feeling comfortable casting to them?


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## Shallow Sport68 (Oct 14, 2008)

LOL.....Can i get a large popcorn with butter?


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## Gilbert (May 25, 2004)

I'm going home to burn one right now.


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## redmerc (Dec 6, 2007)

Yeah it's kinda funny to me too... we have never had 1 person ask about it till our Texas series.. over 1000 anglers in Louisiana, Florida.... etc.. but some Texas guys are acting like you are taking the motor off their boat and making them paddle.. Just curious what other trails out there do...


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## fishnlab (Jul 10, 2004)

Most of the tours tell people not to burn shorelines and flats. How can they enforce it, unless it is really blatant...like a few "checkerboard" patterns I've seen some fellas run on flats.

Here's what I've noticed. If you are in a tower boat and running in less than 4 feet of water, folks will say you are "burning". If you are in a wrapped boat, you'll be accused of "burning" at a depth of 6' or less.

I've many times wondered if people would have called the tactic "scouting" instead of "burning", would people have the same emotions about it.

ex: Gilbert and his partner were careful not to uproot the seagrass as they were "scouting" their favorite flat. Then they went home to burn.


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## redmerc (Dec 6, 2007)

Yes that is why I answered an angler who said, how can you enforce it.. with .. we polygraph and you'll be asked about it there... and it will be the intent that catches you...

If you are just running along and some fish come up and you shut down to fish, only you know if you were just going to point a to point b or if you were specifically "burning" to locate those fish.

So if a guy wants to chance it on a polygraph that is a big chance.. again.. were they INTENTIONALLY practicing in a manner THEY KNEW to be considered burning...

First of all is the law.. Is it legal to run at med to top speeds along a shoreline or within how many feet?.. Another words this practice may be Illegal, not sure, but curious if with all the tree huggers and such that there is not distance rules and laws that anglers have to obey...

I guess, to me, pre fishing should or atleast used to entail making cast.. Now anglers just run, spook up and mark on gps to "pre fish"... ??? Shouldn't that be called pre running?


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## Blk Jck 224 (Oct 16, 2009)

*I wouldn't ever do it!*

I was pre-fishing a tournament, wading a shell bar in approximately 3.5' of water, 75 yards off the shoreline. My boat was anchored about 40 yards off of the shoreline. As the sun was barely breaking the horizion, a litte scooter boat came down the shoreline about 35mph in 2-2 1/2' of water, behind my boat. Radio blaring & people having to yell to be heard over it. I don't think they were burning looking for fish as it was too early to see very good. I believe they were doing it just because they could. I shure hope they followed their trail the next time they came buzzing through there. We left them a nice little pile of busted cinderblock we found on the shoreline across their prop scar. I don't care if it is legal or not. In this case it wasn't right or safe to come around behind us like that. I personally feel it is harassing & exploiting the fish. sad3sm


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## Blk Jck 224 (Oct 16, 2009)

Shallow Sport68 said:


> LOL.....Can i get a large popcorn with butter?


Better put some M&M's in it for some extra energy...LOL :bounce:


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## Poon Chaser (Aug 22, 2006)

can you say... prop up zone??? i can.


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## Won Mo Kasst (Mar 27, 2008)

Blk Jck 224 said:


> I was pre-fishing a tournament, wading a shell bar in approximately 3.5' of water, 75 yards off the shoreline. My boat was anchored about 40 yards off of the shoreline. As the sun was barely breaking the horizion, a litte scooter boat came down the shoreline about 35mph in 2-2 1/2' of water, behind my boat. Radio blaring & people having to yell to be heard over it. I don't think they were burning looking for fish as it was too early to see very good. I believe they were doing it just because they could. I shure hope they followed their trail the next time they came buzzing through there. We left them a nice little pile of busted cinderblock we found on the shoreline across their prop scar. I don't care if it is legal or not. In this case it wasn't right or safe to come around behind us like that. I personally feel it is harassing & exploiting the fish. sad3sm


i hope some father and son in a boat dont hit it...


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## railbird (Jan 2, 2009)

*ur the biggest jerk on the water*



Blk Jck 224 said:


> I was pre-fishing a tournament, wading a shell bar in approximately 3.5' of water, 75 yards off the shoreline. My boat was anchored about 40 yards off of the shoreline. As the sun was barely breaking the horizion, a litte scooter boat came down the shoreline about 35mph in 2-2 1/2' of water, behind my boat. Radio blaring & people having to yell to be heard over it. I don't think they were burning looking for fish as it was too early to see very good. I believe they were doing it just because they could. I shure hope they followed their trail the next time they came buzzing through there. We left them a nice little pile of busted cinderblock we found on the shoreline across their prop scar. I don't care if it is legal or not. In this case it wasn't right or safe to come around behind us like that. I personally feel it is harassing & exploiting the fish. sad3sm


I have to say that is the most irresponsible thing I have ever read on here. What gives you the right to decide where people can run their boat. I hope I don't run over anything that resembles what you described where i fish. You and I will have a serious problem and it will be more than words. Your actions are totally out of line and if you have any brains at all you will remove that obstruction immediately. Finally I have to say you are an ***-HOLE.

chuck


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## Nwilkins (Jan 18, 2009)

Won Mo Kasst said:


> i hope some father and son in a boat dont hit it...





railbird said:


> I have to say that is the most irresponsible thing I have ever read on here. What gives you the right to decide where people can run their boat. I hope I don't run over anything that resembles what you described where i fish. You and I will have a serious problem and it will be more than words. Your actions are totally out of line and if you have any brains at all you will remove that obstruction immediately. Finally I have to say you are an ***-HOLE.
> 
> chuck


I agree, green for you boys


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## Blk Jck 224 (Oct 16, 2009)

railbird said:


> I have to say that is the most irresponsible thing I have ever read on here. What gives you the right to decide where people can run their boat. I hope I don't run over anything that resembles what you described where i fish. You and I will have a serious problem and it will be more than words. Your actions are totally out of line and if you have any brains at all you will remove that obstruction immediately. Finally I have to say you are an ***-HOLE.
> 
> chuck


Actually the idea did cross my mind, but I didn't do it. Just wanted to get a rise out of the scooter boat shore burners. I still don't think it's very sportsman like though. Finally, you should really lighten up & consider increasing the dosage of your medication. :help:


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## fishin shallow (Jul 31, 2005)

A real scooter doesn't leave prop scars in 2' of water. Or did you add extra butter to your popcorn?


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## TexasFlats (Mar 29, 2007)

Blk Jck 224 said:


> Actually the idea did cross my mind, but I didn't do it. *Just wanted to get a rise out of the* scooter boat shore burners. I still don't think it's very sportsman like though. Finally, you should really lighten up & consider increasing the dosage of your medication. :help:


DuckHead comments, DH.

When did 2Cool end up getting a bunch of guys who are _just trying to get a rise out_ of the rest of us?


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## railbird (Jan 2, 2009)

*Forward please*

I would like to have the moderators of this forum forward this thread to TP&W and also the Coast Guard. This kind of behavior has happened before and will continue if this is not reported. I guess the next thing you will do is burn down the guys cabin if you don't like seeing him throw croaker.

I don't think this destructive behavior is funny and there are some young people who follow this board that don't need any ideas. I have found steel frames sticking out of the water down south that i know were not there the week before. In high traffic areas, if it is being done ententionally that is a real shame.

I hope for everyones sake your post was a joke, I for on don't think that is very funny.

chuck


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## bluemangroup (Sep 2, 2009)

Blk Jck,

U should really read the laws concerning booby traps, lying in wait, sabotage, etc. i wouldn't post about anything that remotely breaks these laws as they are felonies. I'm sure you were just venting, but you never know who is listening. And some of the younger sportsman might be impressionable. JMHO


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## Nwilkins (Jan 18, 2009)

bluemangroup said:


> Blk Jck,
> 
> U should really read the laws concerning booby traps, lying in wait, sabotage, etc. i wouldn't post about anything that remotely breaks these laws as they are felonies. I'm sure you were just venting, but you never know who is listening. And some of the younger sportsman might be impressionable. JMHO


Amen


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## gater (May 25, 2004)

*So*

:spineyes: So what's the difference between that and chunking a superspook or lead weight's, or some of the other thing's people have mentioned on this topic in the past when it comes to this subject. Railbird you mentioned more than once you don't burn the shoreline so you should not have to worry. Just because your boat will float in 6 inches of water doesn't mean you have to run it there. Gater


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## Capt. Juarez (Jun 20, 2008)

So you are telling me that anglers in LA do not burns ponds looking for big redfish? I know of a bunch of teams that do it... Are you gonna ask the question on the polygraph about burning in LA ?


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## MsAddicted (Jan 25, 2005)

TexasFlats said:


> DuckHead comments, DH.
> 
> When did 2Cool end up getting a bunch of guys who are _just trying to get a rise out_ of the rest of us?


Last couple of years, I believe.


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## El Primero (Jun 14, 2008)

Define Burning?
I think the word burning gets misconstrued with scouting or people that are just simply running shallow or near a shoreline. People that have shallow draft shallow running boats automatically get stereotyped as burners. I don't consider someone burning if they are looking for a concentration of gamefish, baitfish, or water that looks like it will hold fish, with the amount of pressure that fish succumb to you need some sort of edge. Unless you just like to spot fish. When people hug the shoreline in Bafffin along the KRS to get back into the tide gauge they aren't neccessarily burning. If someone is harrasing a school of fish without ever shutting down or intentionally corralling single or small groups without ever turning off the motor with full intention of catching them than I am inclined to call that burning. If someone chooses to run all day to find fish that's there prerogative, so long as they are respectful of others wades and drifts oh well. With the amount of fisherman/pressure on the water now it's nearly impossible to find any area of water that you can call a sanctuary or feel like you have it to yourself. That's the exact reason I seldom fish the Rockport area anymore, if you are going to lose it every time you get run over then you're in for a long day. This topic is a slippery slope and the argument will never resolve.


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## foxyman (Oct 6, 2009)

I don't know about Baffin, but I know for sure that "you" have a hard time staying in your boat in the Rockport area.................Have you seen Grumpy's lip where the deer kicked him?


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## El Primero (Jun 14, 2008)

HEYYY Foxy!, the only time I got out of the boat was when thrown out by my rotten capt or if I had been a little clumsy, Grumpy deserved to get kicked by a deer I'm calling him now.


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## kodman1 (Sep 16, 2005)

I have run several scooters throughout the years and not one of them left prop scars when running, even SHORELINES.


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## monkeyman1 (Dec 30, 2007)

Blk Jck 224 said:


> I was pre-fishing a tournament, wading a shell bar in approximately 3.5' of water, 75 yards off the shoreline. My boat was anchored about 40 yards off of the shoreline. As the sun was barely breaking the horizion, a litte scooter boat came down the shoreline about 35mph in 2-2 1/2' of water, behind my boat. Radio blaring & people having to yell to be heard over it. I don't think they were burning looking for fish as it was too early to see very good. I believe they were doing it just because they could. I shure hope they followed their trail the next time they came buzzing through there. We left them a nice little pile of busted cinderblock we found on the shoreline across their prop scar. I don't care if it is legal or not. In this case it wasn't right or safe to come around behind us like that. I personally feel it is harassing & exploiting the fish. sad3sm


dumb thing to do, dumb thing to promote. i think the younger 2coolers on the board are more intelligent than to do this, or even mention doing this. you might learn something from them...


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## railbird (Jan 2, 2009)

*Sorry for the rant,back to burning topic.*

Here is how i see it, If you are running a flat that is say a mile by 1/2 mile and you setup a gps grid (run the shoreline move over 100 yrds and go back move over 100yds and go back)and intentionally drive every inch of it to see how many fish there are on it you are burning!!!!!! However if you are driving in a marsh area or flat looking fo birds or bait and not zigzagging all over it disturbing every fish on it then you are scouting. The problem is there are some pretty high and mighty types that look down their noses at any method of fishing that does not involve wading or paddling. I have no patients for them or the burners.

When I fish areas I know, I go straight to where I want to hunt fish, setup and get after it. If they aren't where I expect them to be or there aren't very many, I move. If I do that a few times in a day some jackass in a pair of waders will say I am burning. But if he trys a few spots in the same day he is just being a good fisherman "trying to pattern them".

When we go to new water, water we have never fished, how are we supposed to scout for fish? Do we all look for good looking water, ie bait birds tide movement? How is it that one segment is the vilain and one segment is the great "pattern fishing" genuis. I'll tell you how its very simple, some jackass called running shallow water scouting for fish burning and some wader with an ellitist attitude used it as a club to bang the shallow running boater over the head with it.

chuck


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## 12lbtest (Jun 1, 2005)

Question: 

What happened to just going fishing? You know, to relax.
All this popcorn is getting old.

Serious question, 
12lb


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## Gilbert (May 25, 2004)

this is why tournament fishing should be banned all together. :help:


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## railbird (Jan 2, 2009)

*Grow up!!*



Gilbert said:


> this is why tournament fishing should be banned all together. :help:


LOL, exhibit "A"


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## Gilbert (May 25, 2004)

railbird said:


> LOL, exhibit "A"


you grow up


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## Fishin-Inc (May 27, 2004)

*shoreline*

When I see some guy just running down the ss of emb. Just 30 ft off the shore. He's cruising along burning that shore. I don't care if he's leaving scars or not. He's pushing fish off that shore.

If someone is running a circle around a back bay. He just burnt it.
Tourney or not he's not helping that shoreline. He's making fish spooky.
He's harrassing the fish and making it tougher on everyone.

IMO


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## br1006 (Mar 24, 2006)

Like anything else, a few bad apples ruin the whole bunch!

Do I know people who burn, have I seen it done, has it on more than one occasion, ****** me off or "messed up" a drift I was on, or seen it done in a tournament and nothing done about it?? YES to all of the above!

Just because a guy is in a tower boat or shallow boat w/ a raised console though does not make him a "burner" or a bad person. I think people get labeled burners many times because they run these types of boats even though they never actually "burn".

Basically the whole topic and concept of "burning" is blown way out of proportion IMO!


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## railbird (Jan 2, 2009)

br1006 said:


> Like anything else, a few bad apples ruin the whole bunch!
> 
> Do I know people who burn, have I seen it done, has it on more than one occasion, ****** me off or "messed up" a drift I was on, or seen it done in a tournament and nothing done about it?? YES to all of the above!
> 
> ...


AMEN!!


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## redmerc (Dec 6, 2007)

Capt. Juarez said:


> So you are telling me that anglers in LA do not burns ponds looking for big redfish? I know of a bunch of teams that do it... Are you gonna ask the question on the polygraph about burning in LA ?


Absolutely Bret, Florida, Louisiana, Texas, SC, GA. Wherever we fish, if you will look at the rules you will see 1 page... not 1 page for each division. :cop: All division anglers *were this past year* and will again next year be asked on the polygraph if they participated in this practice.

This is not a new rule for us, just haven't heard any protest about it whatsoever being in the rules until we added a Texas division... :help:


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## Miles2Fish (Dec 2, 2008)

BLk Jck 224 that is just brilliant! So because you believe you are on higher moral ground than everyone els you leave a submerged pile of cinderblocks? Are you just angry your boat won't run skinny or are you just a moron?


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## redmerc (Dec 6, 2007)

Gilbert said:


> this is why tournament fishing should be banned all together. :help:


This is what we fight every day. There are more that want it banned than those that participate in them. But I guess it all depends on who's Ox is getting gored. Recently in Florida they have placed bans on bottom fishing hurting commercial fisherman. Of course tournament guys don't care about that... Just like a lot of guides and commercial guys don't care about tournaments. But remember, today no cigarettes in restaurants, tomorrow no fatty food. Whos' Ox?


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## railbird (Jan 2, 2009)

redmerc, which series is this?


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## waterspout (May 21, 2004)

**** chaser said:


> can you say... prop up zone??? i can.


I can say anyone wanting to burn shores,, pm me with a cash amount and a location to meet you and me and the GP1200R yamahammer will go burn it for you and I was just site seeing! besides... aint many if any TP&W folks going to catch the Hammer! :biggrin: back to the beating it in the ground for years conversation,,, carry on!:cheers:


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## Gilbert (May 25, 2004)

redmerc said:


> This is what we fight every day. There are more that want it banned than those that participate in them. But I guess it all depends on who's Ox is getting gored. Recently in Florida they have placed bans on bottom fishing hurting commercial fisherman. Of course tournament guys don't care about that... Just like a lot of guides and commercial guys don't care about tournaments. But remember, today no cigarettes in restaurants, tomorrow no fatty food. Whos' Ox?


that was my point. :cheers:


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## redmerc (Dec 6, 2007)

br1006 said:


> Like anything else, a few bad apples ruin the whole bunch!
> 
> Do I know people who burn, have I seen it done, has it on more than one occasion, ****** me off or "messed up" a drift I was on, or seen it done in a tournament and nothing done about it?? YES to all of the above!
> 
> ...


"Just because a guy is in a tower boat or shallow boat w/ a raised console though does not make him a "burner" or a bad person"

I agree just like a guy in a football game caught holding another player is not labled a bad person, he just got caught breaking a rule. There is no guarantee that the guy being held would of made the play anyway, but still, they take the points off the board, back up the offense 10 yards and replay the down. Another words, the success the team had is negated by the fact a rule was broke.. Doesn't make anyone a bad person, just trying to protect the integrity of the sport... before the sport is taken away, as stated in an earlier post, don't think it can't happen.

And when the video is entered into the enviromental case of guys running back and forth 20 yards from shore it will be PERCEIVED to have damage to the "prestine" enviroment, whether or not it does. This will be one part of the puzzle that will have "huggers" protesting and lobbying to have laws written to outlaw tournaments altogether. Now before all the commercial guys say "hell yeah". Remember your "ox" will be next. The "huggers" don't want any of us out there and they won't be satisfied until all waters are patrolled only by fish, manatees and of course governement boats...


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## waterspout (May 21, 2004)

Blk Jck 224 said:


> I was pre-fishing a tournament, wading a shell bar in approximately 3.5' of water, 75 yards off the shoreline. My boat was anchored about 40 yards off of the shoreline. As the sun was barely breaking the horizion, a litte scooter boat came down the shoreline about 35mph in 2-2 1/2' of water, behind my boat. Radio blaring & people having to yell to be heard over it. I don't think they were burning looking for fish as it was too early to see very good. I believe they were doing it just because they could. I shure hope they followed their trail the next time they came buzzing through there. We left them a nice little pile of busted cinderblock we found on the shoreline across their prop scar. I don't care if it is legal or not. In this case it wasn't right or safe to come around behind us like that. I personally feel it is harassing & exploiting the fish. sad3sm


the more I read your post the more your hurt other Black jack driver,, if I see one out there broke down you can stay,, I hope it's you and not a decent human!!!!!!:headknock


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## Blk Jck 224 (Oct 16, 2009)

Won Mo Kasst said:


> i hope some father and son in a boat dont hit it...


Won't happen...again that was a fable.



railbird said:


> I have to say that is the most irresponsible thing I have ever read on here. What gives you the right to decide where people can run their boat. I hope I don't run over anything that resembles what you described where i fish. You and I will have a serious problem and it will be more than words. Your actions are totally out of line and if you have any brains at all you will remove that obstruction immediately. Finally I have to say you are an ***-HOLE.
> 
> I'll bet you will think of me the next time you bump something.
> 
> chuck





fishin shallow said:


> A real scooter doesn't leave prop scars in 2' of water. Or did you add extra butter to your popcorn?


No butter...I'm on a low cholesterol diet. I really don't know much about scooter boats & prop scars. Since you obviously do, you would know my post was ficticous.



railbird said:


> I would like to have the moderators of this forum forward this thread to TP&W and also the Coast Guard. This kind of behavior has happened before and will continue if this is not reported. I guess the next thing you will do is burn down the guys cabin if you don't like seeing him throw croaker.
> 
> Again, my post was a fable just to stir the pot. I hope your blood pressure comes down soon.
> 
> ...





bluemangroup said:


> Blk Jck,
> 
> U should really read the laws concerning booby traps, lying in wait, sabotage, etc. i wouldn't post about anything that remotely breaks these laws as they are felonies. I'm sure you were just venting, but you never know who is listening. And some of the younger sportsman might be impressionable. JMHO


Venting & stirring the pot was the sole intention for the post.



monkeyman1 said:


> dumb thing to do, dumb thing to promote. i think the younger 2coolers on the board are more intelligent than to do this, or even mention doing this. you might learn something from them...


True...This was not my most brilliant post....poor example of irresponsible behavior.



Gilbert said:


> this is why tournament fishing should be banned all together. :help:


I'm not going to comment on this one...I've got enough people on my arse right now.



Gilbert said:


> I'm going home to burn one right now.


The Indians burned as well...They also held their fishing grounds sacred!


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## Gilbert (May 25, 2004)

we all need to get on daddy bong legs. this rain/cold weather is making everyone all up tight.


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## railbird (Jan 2, 2009)

cabin fever. lol


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## Blk Jck 224 (Oct 16, 2009)

waterspout said:


> the more I read your post the more your hurt other Black jack driver,, if I see one out there broke down you can stay,, I hope it's you and not a decent human!!!!!!:headknock


That's Ok...I'll find someone else. But I'd still stop to help you anyways


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## waterspout (May 21, 2004)

Gilbert said:


> we all need to get on daddy bong legs. this
> rain/cold weather is making everyone all up tight.


how about east side lunch at a pool hall.. heck it's friday enough! come on.. you aint mowing in this rain... load up for once. I'll give you a new watetr hose I stole from my other neighbor when you get here.:rotfl:


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## Gilbert (May 25, 2004)

waterspout said:


> how about east side lunch at a pool hall.. heck it's friday enough! come on.. you aint mowing in this rain... load up for once. I'll give you a new watetr hose I stole from my other neighbor when you get here.:rotfl:


knot friday for me yet


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## Barnacle Bill (May 21, 2004)

Here is what I know for fact and my .02...

A few months ago a boat in a tourney in the Rockport/Aransas Pass (If I remember correctly) was photographed actually burning an area. Yes, it was a wrapped boat. The person that photographed the boat and complained about them posted on TKF. Obviously kayakers (or anyone for that matter) do not like boats "burning" the area they're fishing. The sponsor of that boat is also a sponsor and member of TKF and saw the pictures and the complaints that were posted. The sponsoro actually posted up on TKF and took the situation seriously.

Here is what I heard so I don't know this part for fact. I heard the sponsor just about pulled their sponsorship not only from that team but threatened to pull it from that tourney. That sponsor is a fishing rod manufacturing company so they didn't like the "bad press" out there.

I personally think burning a shoreline is ridiculous. I also think eating ice cream upside down is ridiculous but astronauts like ice cream too so I don't worry too much about it. I mean, come on.. It is a stupid redfish. Folks act like catching them is akin to studying quantum physics... they're one of the most retarded fish out there and when they're feeding, we all know you can catch them on jalapenos, cherry tomatoes, bubble gum, etc. It's not like your trying to coax a bucketmouth LMB off her bed in Spring... So what the heck is the purpose of burning? To "round em' up"?? Come on... those yokels burning the shoreline aren't even as smart as the redfish they're after...they're just showboating because they can't find the fish in the first place.......


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## 24Buds (Dec 5, 2008)

If, or should I say when I get a boat I will name it "the Burner"

I kayak and MOST of the time, people are respectful. If knot, I just know they suck and move on. Its simple. Lots of people fish, you WILL run into a fool from time to time. No different that driving down to your launch site. You WILL run across a fool driving like a donkey. Don't be a Richard Cranium. If you are, well you suck.

I'm done. 24Buds


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## Fishtexx (Jun 29, 2004)

Richard Cranium...LOL Have not heard that in a long time Green for ya !!


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## Barnacle Bill (May 21, 2004)

FISHTEXX said:


> Richard Cranium...LOL Have not heard that in a long time Green for ya !!


Ditto.. Used to use that a lot back in the 80's....Haven't heard it in a few years, LOL..


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## michdav (Jan 9, 2009)

redmerc said:


> Emailed to our offices earlier today.
> _You cant burn and I think alot of people are not fishing due to this rule. We would like to but can't do it._
> _-----------------------------------------------------------------_
> I find it interesting in the launching of our new tour in Louisiana, Florida and now Texas that Texas anglers are more concerned, request to be allowed to and down right say they won't fish if they can't "burn shorelines and flats" looking for redfish.
> ...


I think the person was stating that he, or others, is not fishing it due to that rule. By judging the number of tower boats in Texas, like it or not, I guess that is how alot of people in texas fish redfish tournaments. If you have that rule I would bet you would not get the large numbers of people that "burn" to fish your tournament.


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## Shallow Sport68 (Oct 14, 2008)

Gilbert said:


> this is why tournament fishing should be banned all together. :help:


I agree.Get rid of them all!


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## jabx1962 (Nov 9, 2004)

Barnacle Bill said:


> I mean, come on.. It is a stupid redfish. Folks act like catching them is akin to studying quantum physics... they're one of the most retarded fish out there and when they're feeding, we all know you can catch them on jalapenos, cherry tomatoes, bubble gum, etc.


:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Exactly......


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## Shallow Sport68 (Oct 14, 2008)

I like jalapenos..:smile:


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## Justin_Time (Jan 29, 2008)

Blk Jck 224 said:


> I was pre-fishing a tournament, wading a shell bar in approximately 3.5' of water, 75 yards off the shoreline. My boat was anchored about 40 yards off of the shoreline. As the sun was barely breaking the horizion, a litte scooter boat came down the shoreline about 35mph in 2-2 1/2' of water, behind my boat. Radio blaring & people having to yell to be heard over it. I don't think they were burning looking for fish as it was too early to see very good. I believe they were doing it just because they could. I shure hope they followed their trail the next time they came buzzing through there. We left them a nice little pile of busted cinderblock we found on the shoreline across their prop scar. I don't care if it is legal or not. In this case it wasn't right or safe to come around behind us like that. I personally feel it is harassing & exploiting the fish. sad3sm


I often run in water less than 2' deep to stay out of the chop. On the other hand, my boat wont leave a prop scar in 2' of water unless there is a foot and a half of grass growing off the bottom.


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## Justin_Time (Jan 29, 2008)

railbird said:


> I have to say that is the most irresponsible thing I have ever read on here. What gives you the right to decide where people can run their boat. I hope I don't run over anything that resembles what you described where i fish. You and I will have a serious problem and it will be more than words. Your actions are totally out of line and if you have any brains at all you will remove that obstruction immediately. Finally I have to say you are an ***-HOLE.
> 
> chuck


I agree...


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## Fishin-Inc (May 27, 2004)

*Propage*

You don't have to leave a freakin prop scar. Because the grass is over 6" long and you are tearing it up. And it floats, so you can't even fish a SS jr' w. single hooks!


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## Sow Trout (Jun 28, 2004)

Maybe they should also regulate the height of fishing platforms in tournaments.


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## railbird (Jan 2, 2009)

*Hold on now.*



Sow Trout said:


> Maybe they should also regulate the height of fishing platforms in tournaments.


Lets not get hasty here. lol

chuck


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## Harbormaster (May 26, 2000)

East Matty "burner"! They saw me taking their pic and all waved! 

Some of the towers we're seeing now are truly entertaining...and people seem to get offended at our sense of humor! They can see a bent rod in East Matty from the swing bridge! :biggrin:


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## NewbieFisher (Jun 3, 2009)

has anyone ever stopped to consider that guys might run shorelines in flatbottom boats because its smoother and they wont knock all their fillings out of their teeth and beat the hell out of their boats?


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## Harbormaster (May 26, 2000)

NewbieFisher said:


> has anyone ever stopped to consider that guys might run shorelines in flatbottom boats because its smoother and they wont knock all their fillings out of their teeth and beat the hell out of their boats?


:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: Forgot what I was gonna say...dangit!


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## Blk Jck 224 (Oct 16, 2009)

Justin_Time said:


> I agree...


X2...LOL


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## Justin_Time (Jan 29, 2008)

Blk Jck 224 said:


> X2...LOL


It's wouldn't be all that funny if someone was seriously injured because of the brilliant action you "thought" about doing.

:cheers:


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## Won Mo Kasst (Mar 27, 2008)

NewbieFisher said:


> has anyone ever stopped to consider that guys might run shorelines in flatbottom boats because its smoother and they wont knock all their fillings out of their teeth and beat the hell out of their boats?


who cares what their reasons are, its their dam business and no one elses
(not jumping you, just using your good point to make another)as to why they are running a shore. if i want to go joy riding and show my kids what redfish look like shooting through the water like torpedos, then i am... if i want to take my boat into a calm back lake, out of everyones way, and run test on hole shot for a new prop, inherently spooking fish, then i am... if i am changing spots and happen to see some activity(bait, birds, fish, whatver...) then i am going to stop a catch the fish... i am not for running down shorelines and cutting off peoples drifts or wades(there are a holes everywhere and cutting somone off is not against the law, so get over it), but i am for people having the freedom to operate their boat and fish however they want as long as its legal... im tired of people that ****** and moan that someone is messing up their fishing... pop tha tittie out of your mouth or start pond fishing at the Texaco golf course


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## Blk Jck 224 (Oct 16, 2009)

Justin_Time said:


> It's wouldn't be all that funny if someone was seriously injured because of the brilliant action you "thought" about doing.
> 
> :cheers:


You're absolutely right! I've probably saved alot of people unnecessary grief by restriaining from doing things that I have thought about doing in the past. That demon sitting on my shoulder will whisper all kinds of ignorant suggestions to me when I get mad. Guess maturity might be finally be setting in. People warned me this might happen.


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## Harbormaster (May 26, 2000)

Won Mo Kasst said:


> who cares what their reasons are, its their dam business and no one elses
> (not jumping you, just using your good point to make another)as to why they are running a shore. if i want to go joy riding and show my kids what redfish look like shooting through the water like torpedos, then i am... if i want to take my boat into a calm back lake, out of everyones way, and run test on hole shot for a new prop, inherently spooking fish, then i am... if i am changing spots and happen to see some activity(bait, birds, fish, whatver...) then i am going to stop a catch the fish... i am not for running down shorelines and cutting off peoples drifts or wades(there are a holes everywhere and cutting somone off is not against the law, so get over it), but i am for people having the freedom to operate their boat and fish however they want as long as its legal... im tired of people that ****** and moan that someone is messing up their fishing... pop tha tittie out of your mouth or start pond fishing at the Texaco golf course


Classic!


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## Won Mo Kasst (Mar 27, 2008)

you CATCH fish like a GIRL!!!! lol


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## Harbormaster (May 26, 2000)

Won Mo Kasst said:


> you CATCH fish like a GIRL!!!! lol


A BIG girl!


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## topdawg jr (Nov 4, 2009)

I don't care what it is you are doing, there is etiquette that applies to everything. Some people weren't raised right, others just plain own stupid, and then there are self absorbed aholes. Bottom line is in the unwritten book of rules on the water there are many different degrees of infraction. As Justice Potter Stewart stated when ruling on hard core ****, I know it when I see it. We too know those who violate boating etiquette when we see it, but most thoughts and ideas that :hairout: boil to the surface would land us in the pokey. My New Years resolution will be to work on keeping my cool when not raised right, stupid or self absorbed pull their shenanigans next year. My hope is that they will learn from us fortunate ones that were taught the right way by our fathers and grandfathers, and mimic our behavior. Cussing, sign language and throwing lures at their boat haven't seemed to knock a dent in the growing population. 2010 will be my year of the head shake, smile, thumbs up...and lower blood pressure. Merry Christmas Fellow Anglers!


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## Shallow Sport68 (Oct 14, 2008)

Bet those guys in that picture have no clue what they are doing.It's just stupid.

Burn shorelines to catch fish......:rotfl:


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## Captain Dave (Jul 19, 2006)

*By Request*

This bag should last a while.....


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## Fishin-Inc (May 27, 2004)

*But*

But Harbor that moron is not leaving scars everywhere?

Of course he's blastin the **** out of the grass so it breaks loose.
Butt he's not a burner they are just joy riding. Drinking some millers hanging in Spout.


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## cudacat (Dec 14, 2006)

If that was a Airboat in the picture instead of a flats boat would that be Burning? 

 What if the Airboat was running on the shore and not in the water is that burning?


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## Fishin-Inc (May 27, 2004)

*DAH*

Don't care what you call it. If you're pushing fish off the shoreline and making them skittish. You're ruining it for everyone.

See me! See me!


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## NewbieFisher (Jun 3, 2009)

Fishin-Inc said:


> Don't care what you call it. If you're pushing fish off the shoreline and making them skittish. You're ruining it for everyone.
> 
> See me! See me!


SO, what i gather from your expertise is that fish only live and eat along the shoreline.
HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM


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## Blk Jck 224 (Oct 16, 2009)

Won Mo Kasst said:


> who cares what their reasons are, its their dam business and no one elses
> (not jumping you, just using your good point to make another)as to why they are running a shore. if i want to go joy riding and show my kids what redfish look like shooting through the water like torpedos, then i am... if i want to take my boat into a calm back lake, out of everyones way, and run test on hole shot for a new prop, inherently spooking fish, then i am... if i am changing spots and happen to see some activity(bait, birds, fish, whatver...) then i am going to stop a catch the fish... i am not for running down shorelines and cutting off peoples drifts or wades(there are a holes everywhere and cutting somone off is not against the law, so get over it), but i am for people having the freedom to operate their boat and fish however they want as long as its legal... im tired of people that ****** and moan that someone is messing up their fishing... pop tha tittie out of your mouth or start pond fishing at the Texaco golf course


I'm just popped it out. What do usually stick them on at the pond ? Please PM which pond & divulge techniques. I'm still getting back on the tittie when I get back to the house


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## KingTut (May 19, 2005)

I'm learning SO much on 2coolfishing.com! Not sure which one was the best and I've been to the Texaco golf course! 

"pop tha tittie out of your mouth or start pond fishing at the Texaco golf course" was good but BEST IN CLASS goes to "Richard Cranium" - that's just priceless!


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## redmerc (Dec 6, 2007)

I guess from the 8 pages of post that it's a don't ask don't tell policy or altogether accepted by other Texas trails. I would love to hear from other tournament directors what their rules state for Texas anglers in regards to "burning" shorelines and flats... I mean I guess if it isn't "illegal" then what the heck... but seems kinda a wierd litmus test for all rules. I mean it isn't "illegal" to have alcohol on your boat you just can't be drunk while driving right? So why should a tournament trail care if anglers have beer on board?... Or the 50 / 100 yard rule if a trolling motor is up and anchor down. Fishing right up against someone else's boat and fish isn't "against the law" so why should a tournament trail care?

Heck we may can have a whole new series.. fish however you want to from 7am-1pm, boxing from 2pm-4pm


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## Won Mo Kasst (Mar 27, 2008)

redmerc said:


> I guess from the 8 pages of post that it's a don't ask don't tell policy or altogether accepted by other Texas trails. I would love to hear from other tournament directors what their rules state for Texas anglers in regards to "burning" shorelines and flats... I mean I guess if it isn't "illegal" then what the heck... but seems kinda a wierd litmus test for all rules. I mean it isn't "illegal" to have alcohol on your boat you just can't be drunk while driving right? So why should a tournament trail care if anglers have beer on board?... Or the 50 / 100 yard rule if a trolling motor is up and anchor down. Fishing right up against someone else's boat and fish isn't "against the law" so why should a tournament trail care?
> 
> Heck we may can have a whole new series.. fish however you want to from 7am-1pm, boxing from 2pm-4pm


Burning is too broad of a topic to make a rule on in a tournament... Now anglers driving recklessly and cutting off fellow competitors or other fishermen be something to look into. There is a reason your merc is red, its cuz it just got spanked!!!! lol sorry, just had to...


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## fishnhero (Dec 16, 2009)

Blk Jck 224 said:


> I was pre-fishing a tournament, wading a shell bar in approximately 3.5' of water, 75 yards off the shoreline. My boat was anchored about 40 yards off of the shoreline. As the sun was barely breaking the horizion, a litte scooter boat came down the shoreline about 35mph in 2-2 1/2' of water, behind my boat. Radio blaring & people having to yell to be heard over it. I don't think they were burning looking for fish as it was too early to see very good. I believe they were doing it just because they could. I shure hope they followed their trail the next time they came buzzing through there. We left them a nice little pile of busted cinderblock we found on the shoreline across their prop scar. I don't care if it is legal or not. In this case it wasn't right or safe to come around behind us like that. I personally feel it is harassing & exploiting the fish. sad3sm


Some people have to run close to the shore to escape the rough water. I was about 150yds off the louisana shore line one day when I realized there was five waders 200yds in front of me. I felt bad for getting that close to them, but there boat was tied up close to shore in a pocket. If they had anchored at a point it would have been easier to see them. Maybe someone should make some money by selling hunter orange flags with a black W on them or something to help signal our fellow fishermen.


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## redmerc (Dec 6, 2007)

Won Mo Kasst said:


> Burning is too broad of a topic to make a rule on in a tournament... Now anglers driving recklessly and cutting off fellow competitors or other fishermen be something to look into. There is a reason your merc is red, its cuz it just got spanked!!!! lol sorry, just had to...


Not spanked at all, still waiting for an answer.. why no beer during tournaments,, it isn't against the law.. why a trolling motor/distance rule.. talk about too broad.. my 50 yards may be different than your 50 yards.. I mean do we have to carry laser distance finders on the boat now?

and burning is not too broad a topic... The angler knows what he or she is doing... it will come up on the polygraph.. they KNOW if they were just getting out of rough water or if they were using their boat/motor to stir up/locate redfish... that's all, actually pretty simple do what you want to do and when you are asked what you INTENTIONS were if you are telling the truth and pass poly you take home 40k, if you fail poly you go home with nothing.... see simple, actually.....

It gets complicated when people KNOW what they do and try to find a way around it or to justify it through broad examples of "just getting out of the chop" or "had to run next to the shore back and forth, back and forth working a grid to make sure my gps was working properly, the fish I scared up just happened to be in the wrong place at the right time".. 

Again, to date, we have not had 1 single angler protested nor fail a polygraph when asked if they were practicing the technique of "burning" to locate their fish. If guys aren't doing it, not sure why the 9 pages of post "explaining" how hard it is to define it. It's a one sentence question... "were you burning a flat or shoreline"... if not say no... the question isn't "were you operating your boat close to a shore".. or "were you trying to avoid choppy water by running close to the shore"... the question is "did you burn", we all know what that means.

"Now anglers driving recklessly"... This is very broad.. to me driving just feet from the shore, on plane, would be considered reckless. I've seen too many wrecks where boats slung an ear on a prop or hit something in the water and ended up on shore. Again, our definition of reckless can be severly different and is easily as broad if not more than burning... reckless can be anything, burning is just one..

Running a shore or flat with your vessel as the tool by which you are attempting to make fish reveal their location. Or something to that affect.... It could be easily spelled out .. .I am sure the great minds here could come up with something that everyone understood to be the "definition" of burning.. but I think they already have and everyone already knows what it is...  Good discussion though... would love to see other tourney directors comment...


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## snagltoothfrecklefish (Jul 27, 2004)

So what if you are driving all around the bay looking for birds, are you burning? What is it that is burning? Damaging the bottom? Spooking fish with the boat? Driving near a shore? There is no definition. How many fish do you spook every time you drive your boat around, do you think all the fish are in shallow water or all hang out on the bottom out of harms way. 

If you were a fish, would you rather have a boat go by you and scare you out of the way or would you rather have a hook stuck in your mouth and drag you to a boat fighting for you life the whole way? (No I am not in PETA)

If you are tearing up the bottom, that's bad. I think people that don't like burning don't know what they really are mad about. I think they are made because they think the burners are taking shortcuts to finding fish and not working for the fish, cheating to try and win. I would say any fisherman that is driving his boat to a place to fish and sees a big school of fish busting and does not stop to fish it is an idiot. Are you going to tell me because you saw them or spooked them in deep water you would not stop. I say if you have ever been in a boat and stopped to fish because you saw something (birds, fish, shrimp popping, etc), you are a burner. 

So what is it exactly that is a burner. Everyone has a different definition, so it can never be regulated. Suffice to say tearing up the bottom is at least something to be regulated. You could argue that any water vehicle in the environment disturbs fish. 

I say be against illegal/immoral acts like tearing up the bottom or setting traps for other boats. Every boat out there spooks fish and every fisherman would stop if he saw fish from his boat.


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## Won Mo Kasst (Mar 27, 2008)

snagltoothfrecklefish said:


> So what if you are driving all around the bay looking for birds, are you burning? What is it that is burning? Damaging the bottom? Spooking fish with the boat? Driving near a shore? There is no definition. How many fish do you spook every time you drive your boat around, do you think all the fish are in shallow water or all hang out on the bottom out of harms way.
> 
> If you were a fish, would you rather have a boat go by you and scare you out of the way or would you rather have a hook stuck in your mouth and drag you to a boat fighting for you life the whole way? (No I am not in PETA)
> 
> ...


x2... just about anything can considered burning, redmerc.


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## redmerc (Dec 6, 2007)

What is some feel burning is immoral? Do they have to be ignored so you can practice it? Didn't they pay the same entry fee to compete? Just asking how you would handle that... Who sets the morral compass? Is it yours? Is it mine? What's moral to you may not be to someone else... maybe they don't like outboards... what is a no wake zone? If I drive a flats boat 80 mph through a no wake zone (not an idle zone) I am creating less wake than a 36' does idling... 

You have to have rules, as much as I hate them... maybe we should just call Texas the "Burn Division"..  good conversation though...


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## redmerc (Dec 6, 2007)

Really? anything is burning? So you see no difference in running a shoreline to get from point a to point b and running back and forth, back and forth, gradually moving out until that magic spot is hit and shutting down to fish, fish that "you had no idea were there, you just got lucky"...  

As stated above you know if you were going back and forth, back and forth, in and out, in and out... wait are we still talking fishing... ;-) hehehehhe 

anyway, all the above with the INTENTION of locating fish... some are just trying to muddy up the waters.. every angler fishing a tournament knows exactly what burning is and what consititutes it...


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## gater (May 25, 2004)

*Redmerc*

No it is not illegal to have beer in your boat, tournaments enforce this because of two main reasons. Liability for them and their sponsors and because of polygraphs. In Texas it is illegal to harras fish, now define harrasing! Leaves it wide open for many interpatations.

It is not the "Burn Boat" that is the problem it is the operator. Though I don't agree with this style of fishing, the burning style of fishing can be productive thats why so many do it but Ray Charles can catch fish like that. I don't think the TP&WD considers this harrasing, a practice used often in South Texas were more than one boat circles a school of Reds is harrasing and this is what got the rule implimented in the Cup and FLW tournaments.

If you have all of your tournaments from Freeport north you won't have to worry about it. West Bay loves lower units! LOL gater


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## redmerc (Dec 6, 2007)

Thanks for answering gater... yeah the same reason we don't allow step ladders to fish from either... liability requirements.. but again, all we have to do is "tell the anglers" they can't have beer, whats to stop them from having buddies bring it to them during the tournament on the water???? You can't police it all so you handle it, with 40 or 50K on the line, in the polygraph trailer... we poly both team mates and randomly choose out anglers who may have not even finished in the money.. the entire field leaves in the morning knowing that they have a chance of being polygraphed that afternoon... this handles most "broad" issues...

Once enough claims are made for unfortunate accidents where boats end up killing someone wading or something, then the insurance will require us to put distance from shore restrictions as well.. Which we have in florida on fresh water.. can't run within so many feet of shore because of .... you guessed it.. manatees.. but I guess the ones in saltwater never go shallow... more genius from Florida DNR...


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## redmerc (Dec 6, 2007)

snagltoothfrecklefish said:


> So what if you are driving all around the bay looking for birds, are you burning? What is it that is burning? Damaging the bottom? Spooking fish with the boat? Driving near a shore? There is no definition. How many fish do you spook every time you drive your boat around, do you think all the fish are in shallow water or all hang out on the bottom out of harms way.


Here is the definition as found in our rules under sportsmanship...

*Sportsmanship*. All contestants are required to practice courtesy, safety and follow local and state game laws. All competitors are bound by the prevailing statues and regulations of the various states within which they fish clarifying that Competitors are responsible for research of fishing and boating regulations. Anyone displaying poor sportsmanship or violating game laws will be subject to disqualification. *"Burning" or intentionally running a boat on plane with the purpose of locating fish, moving fish, harassing fish and/or wildlife, or destruction of habitat during competition hours is strictly prohibited and will be enforced. This act is prohibited and considered unsportsmanlike conduct. Any Series competitor found to be accountable for the unsportsmanlike act of "burning" will incur penalties. Penalties apply to both anglers regardless of which committed the violation. *No wireless, radio or other controlled devices allowed for same or similar purposes. 

Seems to me bird watching in a bay is ok..


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## fishin shallow (Jul 31, 2005)

Dang I love burn threads...

Why stop there, why not ban the use of Gulps or any scented baits and attractants? Let em fish, the people that get skunked are the ones that probably ****** cause they gotta blame someone:headknock


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## redmerc (Dec 6, 2007)

Yeah why stop at baits why not ban shorts? Why not ban short sleeve shirts? Make everyone fish from 3 piece suits... I think the whole point is to make sure guys use gulp or other baits to find their fish.. just not their outboards... ;-) Like I stated earlier, 10 tournaments from Florida to Louisiana and not one complaint of burning... the rule as printed was in affect all last season.. no complaints, no protest, no issues, this seems to be a Texas issue... I keep hearing it's the "clear water" Texas has... not sure how that affects locating fish, seems it would make it easier to find them and the need for burning would be less... Just trying to understand the logic...I appreciate you guys trying to help..


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## cudacat (Dec 14, 2006)

Fishin-Inc said:


> Don't care what you call it. If you're pushing fish off the shoreline and making them skittish. You're ruining it for everyone.
> 
> See me! See me!


So for instance me and three of my fishing buds are spread out walking down the shoreline spooking fish that could be consider burning.


close the beaches..


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## railbird (Jan 2, 2009)

*I'm calling BS.*



redmerc said:


> Yeah why stop at baits why not ban shorts? Why not ban short sleeve shirts? Make everyone fish from 3 piece suits... I think the whole point is to make sure guys use gulp or other baits to find their fish.. just not their outboards... ;-) Like I stated earlier, 10 tournaments from Florida to Louisiana and not one complaint of burning... the rule as printed was in affect all last season.. no complaints, no protest, no issues, this seems to be a Texas issue... I keep hearing it's the "clear water" Texas has... not sure how that affects locating fish, seems it would make it easier to find them and the need for burning would be less... Just trying to understand the logic...I appreciate you guys trying to help..


Redmerc, I get the feeling you are not interested in this issue, your mind is made up. I think you are promoting your tournament and trying to make other trails running in texas look less ethical, because they don't polygraph on this issue. Promote your tournament and stay out of the burning issue.

So let me help you a little, when is your 1st tournament next year? What is the schedual of all tournaments? Would you like to post your rules since they are so superior to others in texas? What are the entry fees, can we afford them? I mean all us texas boys are just ignorant bubba's who can't catch fish like the rest of the gulf coast.

chuck


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## railbird (Jan 2, 2009)

Hey RP i see you lurking down there lets go whup their arce behind the cabin.


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## cudacat (Dec 14, 2006)

Just trying to understand!!!!! Actually I understand perfectly&#8230; All you guys that don't agree with burning are also against boats running the shore lines in 6"-3' of water. Many boats do this just to have a comfortable ride or to find bait, or go get beer, gas, or just joy riding. A good flats boat while running on plane.
 will not scar the bay floor or even cut grass in 6" of water if operated correct. I run shore lines all the time when traveling from A to B.


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## rsparker67 (Mar 30, 2008)

railbird said:


> Hey RP i see you lurking down there lets go whup their arce behind the cabin.


 Go Go Go, I'll call you in a bit. But only if we can burn all the way there.


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## railbird (Jan 2, 2009)

I'll get the boat ready and thro in some beers. Ask your dad if he wants to go.


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## rsparker67 (Mar 30, 2008)

railbird said:


> I'll get the boat ready and thro in some beers. Ask your dad if he wants to go.


Im sure he would. call me, my phone's jacked up and lost all my contacts.


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## railbird (Jan 2, 2009)

Hey redmerc, would you consider this burning or unsportsmanlike conduct. This is how rsparker and I are going to roll in about an hour.


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## redmerc (Dec 6, 2007)

railbird said:


> Redmerc, I get the feeling you are not interested in this issue, your mind is made up. I think you are promoting your tournament and trying to make other trails running in texas look less ethical, because they don't polygraph on this issue. Promote your tournament and stay out of the burning issue.
> 
> So let me help you a little, when is your 1st tournament next year? What is the schedual of all tournaments? Would you like to post your rules since they are so superior to others in texas? What are the entry fees, can we afford them? I mean all us texas boys are just ignorant bubba's who can't catch fish like the rest of the gulf coast.
> 
> chuck


Never said anyone was ignorant, a bubba or unethical. Just answering an email that acted as if we had 3 eyes on our forehead because we don't allow burning and haven't in any other state we fish. Neither did the FLW, Cup, etc. Another major tour puts it as follows:

Competitors in the tournaments are expected to follow high standards of sportsmanship, courtesy, safety and conservation. Any infraction of these fundamental sporting principles may be deemed cause for disqualification. Maximum courtesy must be practiced at all times, especially with regard to boating and angling in the vicinity of non-competitors who may be on tournament waters. Any act of a competitor, which reflects unfavorably upon the IFA's effort to promote fisheries conservation, clean waters, and courtesy, shall be reason for disqualification. Evidence of chemical substance addiction or abuse, conviction of a felony or other crimes involving moral turpitude or other conduct reflecting unfavorably upon the IFA efforts to promote safety, sportsmanship and compliance with tournament rules shall be grounds for rejecting any application for participation and for disqualification. Any act deemed by the Tournament Director that gives a team or angler an unfair advantage not specifically covered under this set of rules shall be grounds for disqualification. Any violation by an angler deemed intentional or preconceived by the Tournament Director to gain an unfair advantage, would be grounds for permanent disqualification.​
Now to me that is a paragraph that gives the tournament the right to kick you out for any reason THEY see fit. Talk about vague or broad, I would just think it better that it be spelled out clearly, but perhaps their way is better. Just trying to gather the thinking behind intentionally burning to locate fish and why it is such a big deal when fisherman are asked not to do it in one state over another. Not superior to anyone or anything, just debating pros and cons of a hot topic...

Railbird, the boat isn't moving. I feel pretty sure burning involves the big motor. Have fun
​


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## snagltoothfrecklefish (Jul 27, 2004)

redmerc said:


> Here is the definition as found in our rules under sportsmanship...
> 
> *"Burning" or intentionally running a boat on plane with the purpose of locating fish, moving fish, harassing fish and/or wildlife, or destruction of habitat during competition hours is strictly prohibited and will be enforced. This act is prohibited and considered unsportsmanlike conduct. Any Series competitor found to be accountable for the unsportsmanlike act of "burning" will incur penalties. Penalties apply to both anglers regardless of which committed the violation.*..


I would say every boat in the tournament that runs on plane has the purpose of locating fish. If you are just running around on plane, going from one spot to another and happen to spook a big school of redfish, Can you stop and fish or are you now a burner. Every boat on plane moves fish.

You maybe able to enforce this somewhere like Upper Laguna when someone is "gridding" a huge flat. But other than that you sure are opening up a huge can of worms due to all the gray areas. Some guy accuses another boat of burning, how are you going to prove it. Picture, no. Verbal, no. 30 minute long video of the boat, maybe and you still would be subject to proving it.

Nice rule, Nice thought, makes tournament appear to take high ground, but in reality, another stupid rule that can't be enforced.


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## Bill Fisher (Apr 12, 2006)

burn!, baby, burn!....... i call wade-fishermen 'speed bumps'


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## redmerc (Dec 6, 2007)

Snag, the key word is *intentionally ...*

When an angler is asked (on poly) did you INTENTIONALLY use your boat in such a way to... bla bla bla why does that not make it clear between the guy that is just running down the shore and the guy that was INTENTIONALLY operating his boat in such a way to dislodge or locate fish... Again, reason I started all this is because we haven't had one issue any where else we fish, Fl, La, Sc, etc. Seems to be a Texas thing and I was trying to get all the rules the same for all tournaments and it will be our first season in Texas... that's all...


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## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

here's the point you are missing...

- some people are fishing and consider burning a horrible act and ruining their good time
- some people are not fishing and having fun boat riding and looking at everything including the waters and such near a shoreline

I bet some of you burner whiners would be ****** off at everyone on the water if you wanted to catch a bass in Devils Cove (austin) on Memorial weekend too.

it is what it is, not what YOU want it to be all the time... share the world.


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## Barnacle Bill (May 21, 2004)

jabx1962 said:


> Originally Posted by *Barnacle Bill*
> _I mean, come on.. It is a stupid redfish. Folks act like catching them is akin to studying quantum physics... they're one of the most retarded fish out there and when they're feeding, we all know you can catch them on jalapenos, cherry tomatoes, bubble gum, etc._
> 
> :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:
> ...


A bunch of hoopla over folks burning shorelines looking for the moron redfish that will eat anything and is about as hard to catch as a cold in December..:rybka:


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## redmerc (Dec 6, 2007)

Infamous, I agree... the only ones we can worry about are the ones competing and like you said, someone always whines about something, it seems. Just trying to get a "feel" for what guys are used to in tournaments out west, which may not be what guys are used to in the east. Seriously just trying to run a good tour and we have some great sponsors that are putting up big money and don't want them getting hammered with phone calls about "my dog almost got run over", sob stories, etc... 

I really do appreciate all the input and I'm sure the 2cool mgt appreciates the 11+ pages of hits and post. So it wasn't all bad, really hope we can make it work for everyone. Your point about sharing the water is dead on.

Barnacle Bill... love your siggy


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## Gilbert (May 25, 2004)

InfamousJ said:


> here's the point you are missing...
> 
> - some people are fishing and consider burning a horrible act and ruining their good time
> - some people are not fishing and having fun boat riding and looking at everything including the waters and such near a shoreline
> ...


I don't know about you but I never had trouble getting b***** in devils cove on memorial weekend. :cheers:


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## fishin shallow (Jul 31, 2005)

Could it be that you don't hear this in say Florida because of the tremondous amount of pressure the fish are under. Never have fished over there but all the shows I have watched always talk about how stealthy you have to be in order to catch a red becasue they are so skittish. 
Don't know about up north but down here in the LLM I can locate some fish while running a shoreline make a large loop back and drift into the same fish and they will school right back up. Same as when I am wading, I can have another burner run too close to us and it will shut down the bite but 8 out of 10 times the bite will start up again within 15 minutes or so.


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## Blk Jck 224 (Oct 16, 2009)

Bill Fisher said:


> burn!, baby, burn!....... i call wade-fishermen 'speed bumps'


I'm not going to get bent & attempt an ONLINE LYNCHING for that post like some of your shore burner buddies did to me about my 'SPEED BUMP' post. Sarcasm is my 2nd language & I can read this & understand that you are not actually going to go out & try to run over wade fisherman. See....this is a silly post to get someone's attention & express an opinion. As I always try to see the good in everything, I think I finally found the good in those tower boats. You will get the most attention in a lightning storm! :cloud:


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## michdav (Jan 9, 2009)

RedMErc,

Not really sure what your intentions are, but as you can tell burning is something that happens in Texas and is obviously a sensitive subject. If you want more entires to your tournament, then you cant have rules or even things that sounds like rules about burning. If you already have enough people for your tournaments, then good for you. I assure you that its not like Texas needs another tournament trail in 2010, there are plenty that dont tell people how not to fish.


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## redmerc (Dec 6, 2007)

No problem Mitc, but f.y.i. we were requested to come out there, as you can tell Florida to Texas is a huge trip, we have been asked for years and are doing what sponsors, friends and even some anglers have requested we do. You can check the date that I joined and see this isn't my first month on this board. 

Tournaments tell you all the time how not to fish, they are called rules, only 2 fish allowed (although state limit is more), fish must be alive or get a penalty, foul hooked fish must be released immediately, must show sportsmanship (meaning a whole list of things you CAN'T do), so forth and so on.

I appreciate the input and the phone calls that we have received and am glad to see that it's more the term "burning" than the action. I haven't had a call yet where I would deem the type of fishing described to me as "burning".

Burning is not anything more than harrassing or rodeoing up fish. If a team is running from point a to point b inshore and during that run find fish and decide to fish them. To me, that is not burning. If a team is going in circles over a flat or running up and down the same shoreline barely moving in and out and back and forth, that is burning or should I say "busting".. would that be a better term?

You are not allowed to "bust" schools INTENTIONALLY or round up fish then cast to them or run up on fish real quick pull the kill switch and cast quickly while the fish is trying to get away from your boat.

Just go FISHING.. that's all. If you "come across" a good school of fish while running from point a to point b, shut down and fish em or mark your gps where they were. If you are doing donuts in the middle of a flat (unless you slung 2 blades off your prop  then you are harassing. I think it's more the word than the definition that has everyone upset. 

Sure didn't mean to upset anyone, just want to make sure the tour, it's anglers, sponsors and representatives are not labled unfairly as a bunch of people that don't care about the fish, enviroment or image of what we are doing. As I told one phone caller...

We want you to locate, catch, keep and weigh your fish in a professional manner that leaves as little room for negativity as possible. If you come to the stage with 2-5 pound fish and they aren't the giants you wanted to catch, we still don't want you throwing them down on the scales, like w.t.f.... There is no law against throwing them down in discust but we want the kids, moms and fellow competitors to LIKE what we and the anglers are doing, as much as is possible, from launch to weigh in.

Again, sorry if that offends anyone, it wasn't intended to...


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## shallowgal (Jun 11, 2004)

> you CATCH fish like a GIRL!!!! lol


You wish! :slimer:


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## NewbieFisher (Jun 3, 2009)

has anyone ever stopped to consider that guys might run shorelines in flatbottom boats because its smoother and they wont knock all their fillings out of their teeth and beat the hell out of their boats?


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## TKoenig (Apr 8, 2007)

i "burn" in my Mowdy S-10... i usually run in about 2ft of water cuz 6 inch chop sux on a 10ft boat... i try to never run less than 2 but it happends occasionally. i will never run between at boat and the shore tho, nomatter how rough it is. theres been many a time that ive had 2-3ft whitecaps breaking over the bow while trying to respect peoples fishing grounds.


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## Blk Jck 224 (Oct 16, 2009)

TKoenig said:


> i "burn" in my Mowdy S-10... i usually run in about 2ft of water cuz 6 inch chop sux on a 10ft boat... i try to never run less than 2 but it happends occasionally. i will never run between at boat and the shore tho, nomatter how rough it is. theres been many a time that ive had 2-3ft whitecaps breaking over the bow while trying to respect peoples fishing grounds.


Cabbage for the respect :clover:


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## troutlover (Aug 16, 2006)

Won Mo Kasst said:


> who cares what their reasons are, its their dam business and no one elses
> (not jumping you, just using your good point to make another)as to why they are running a shore. if i want to go joy riding and show my kids what redfish look like shooting through the water like torpedos, then i am... if i want to take my boat into a calm back lake, out of everyones way, and run test on hole shot for a new prop, inherently spooking fish, then i am... if i am changing spots and happen to see some activity(bait, birds, fish, whatver...) then i am going to stop a catch the fish... i am not for running down shorelines and cutting off peoples drifts or wades(there are a holes everywhere and cutting somone off is not against the law, so get over it), but i am for people having the freedom to operate their boat and fish however they want as long as its legal... im tired of people that ****** and moan that someone is messing up their fishing... pop tha tittie out of your mouth or start pond fishing at the Texaco golf course


 I agree whith what you are saying but you still should have respect for others who are trying to fish.


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## DANO (May 23, 2005)

I have nothing to add, just post padding. :biggrin:


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## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

TKoenig said:


> i "burn" in my Mowdy S-10... i usually run in about 2ft of water cuz 6 inch chop sux on a 10ft boat... i try to never run less than 2 but it happends occasionally. i will never run between at boat and the shore tho, nomatter how rough it is. theres been many a time that ive had 2-3ft whitecaps breaking over the bow while trying to respect peoples fishing grounds.


that's pretty much the way I think, for the record. make a loop out and then back in giving plenty of room for the fishermen.


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## Won Mo Kasst (Mar 27, 2008)

troutlover said:


> I agree whith what you are saying but you still should have respect for others who are trying to fish.


fish how you want with respect given to other people


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## artys_only (Mar 29, 2005)

*can we all just get along !*

burn not to burn ? threads like this make me want to burn ! (one ) :brew2:


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## Naterator (Dec 2, 2004)

*burning*

My $.02 -

First of all, burning a shoreline and burning a flat are two very different actions and its somewhat relative to geography. I mostly fish down south where you have endless miles of shallow water and burning a flat is very acceptable as long as you are not running within several hundred yards of waders / drifters...like 500 yards or more when possible, never closer than 200. Running a shoreline is also the preferred method of entry and exit to ceratin areas because it leaves the middle of the flat undisturbed. *Burning a shoreline in any of the upper or mid-coast bays, on the other hand, is just not right.* My boat runs in 4" of water...I am not proud of it, but don't mind admitting that I have burned shorelines in east matty, POC, and other places where it is completely unacceptable, and occasionally did this up until a couple of years ago. I wasn't so much looking for fish most times as I was joyriding. Its stupid and I no longer do it. Our bays are way too crowded for it these days. I can't tell you how many times I have done that long wade back to the boat to move a mile down the shoreline to another spot...you power wade back, huff and puff to pull in the anchor and stake out stick, and as you are idling to pick up your buddy, watch helpessly as that speck on the horizon becomes a tunnel hull blasting down the shoreline from as far as the eye can see, leaving an entire east or west end of the bay's shallow water ruined for the near future. Its selfish and it sucks. I have watched numerous times as specks and reds leave a shoreline at dawn for deeper water after some yahoo runs too close to the shoreline. I apologize to all for past actions and feel its all I can do to say my two cents and hopefully educate others. I don't have a problem with anyone running their boat shallow, but IMO, it really should be an "as needed to get where you are going" type of thing, not a fish spotting or "just cause I can deal". I would guess that the same guys who advocate this type of thing as "their right" are probably the same ones who get on here and say that 100 yards is plenty of room to give a wader or drifter. Yeah, its a free country, but that doesn't mean you have to be an a-hole just because you can.


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## Blk Jck 224 (Oct 16, 2009)

Won Mo Kasst said:


> fish how you want with respect given to other people


You never gave up your Texaco golf course pond tactics hwell:


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## Won Mo Kasst (Mar 27, 2008)

Blk Jck 224 said:


> You never gave up your Texaco golf course pond tactics hwell:


PM sent!!!!


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## Blk Jck 224 (Oct 16, 2009)

Won Mo Kasst said:


> PM sent!!!!


:wink:  *I'm on it !*.....Not right now cause I'm having too much fun with the tittie :redface:


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## michdav (Jan 9, 2009)

ReDMERc,

Burning is not anything more than harrassing or rodeoing up fish. If a team is running from point a to point b inshore and during that run find fish and decide to fish them. To me, that is not burning. If a team is going in circles over a flat or running up and down the same shoreline barely moving in and out and back and forth, that is burning or should I say "busting".. would that be a better term?

You are not allowed to "bust" schools INTENTIONALLY or round up fish then cast to them or run up on fish real quick pull the kill switch and cast quickly while the fish is trying to get away from your boat.

This is how some people fish, and have been doing so for several years, and even some guides take customers fishing this way, and the customers like it. So for a tournament to tell someone how to not to fish a certain way that they have been for years, and you know what Im talking about, wont get them to enter their tournament. Again, I think you will get more entries without even remotely refering to this rule, but maybe you dont need them. With their being like (IFA, TRs, Xtrem,) 25 tournaments next year not including yours, and then a new tournament in town thats has a rule that alot of anglers wont even go near... Im just saying.


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## Bonito (Nov 17, 2008)

Gilbert said:


> I'm going home to burn one right now.


Il'm with you Gilbert. Then I'll get the pop corn. :brew:


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