# Almost made a rifle build mistake...OPTICS



## Muddskipper (Dec 29, 2004)

Doing a rifle build and I already have the glass off a previous rifle.

It's a Ziess Conquest 4.5-14X50

Solid optics and good power to see down range...

Was about to take it over to have it mounted and the stock glass bedded...and was taking to a buddy about his new scope that has mil dots...

He said its a shame I didn't have them as it would of helped in the 500+ yard range

Asked around and someone said to call Zeiss and see what they say....

Customer service said they could change the reticle for $125 but did not know which one I should get...I have the traditional cross hairs heavy line to light line in the center....

CS sent me over to a guy in technical and I explained what I had and my caliber...300 win mag

He asked if I had seen their online calculated ?...hummm...!

He pulled it up and went through some scenarios with bullet weight and distance...

He said to get the Rapid Z 800, as it matches well with the .300wm

_Side note: if I had a .308 he said I should get the Rapid Z 1000_

Only draw back: Zeiss said it was a 8-12 week wait on e they receive it...but
If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right!

Cost is only $125 ... Not sure if that includes shipping back...we will see...

But it will be like getting a new scope...and the Zeiss tech. Said it can line up for 800 yards...way cool, for plinking metal


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## spurgersalty (Jun 29, 2010)

Did you provide the "tech" with multiple recorded velocities? Or an average?


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## Muddskipper (Dec 29, 2004)

I did not... He had a bunch of different load info on their calculator

One note: I will be putting a Timeny trigger in it unless you guys convince me otherwise


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## spurgersalty (Jun 29, 2010)

I would not purchase yet then.
I WOULD however spent some time at the range gathering the pertinent info needed to correctly establish a BC scope reticle.
On the trigger, is it factory? Name brand of gun( I'm slow)
May be able to adjust without replacement to your liking.


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## Muddskipper (Dec 29, 2004)

The trigger is the x mark from remington


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

I don't recommend a pre-calculated BDC reticle for accurate long range shooting. 

Get a mil dot or mil radian reticle. Those are based on a known calculation that comes from a number of variables, velocity, ballistic coefficient, etc all run through a ballistics calculator to provide a consistent point of aim at any distance. 

Beyond about 300 yds, the BDC reticles lose accuracy rapidly unless you just happen on the right bullet load combo that matches.


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## Bottomsup (Jul 12, 2006)

Is the Zeiss a first focal plane scope? If not you will have to use the same power setting or those lines sure wont mean anything.


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## txbred (May 13, 2013)

there was a recent recall on the X- Mark Pro trigger. go with a different one. or read up on the recall and decide for yourself.

I 100% agree with hydrasports regarding the reticle. get a good mil-dot and learn how to mil targets with it. 

i also agree with bottomsup regarding first focal plane reticles. if you are going with a mil-dot and a variable power scope, FFP is a must. I have two. i'd never get second focal plane, ever!

I use Mil-Dot Ballistics app for iphone and it creates a printable illustration of the reticle with the holds for 200 thru 1,000 yards. i put it in my butler creek flip up cap.


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## Ernest (May 21, 2004)

*I don't recommend a pre-calculated BDC reticle for accurate long range shooting.*

Exactly. The BDC works, if at all, for only one load. God only knows whether that load works in your rifle.

So, then you have these little lines on your scope. The "400 yards" line on the scope is now 365 for load No. 2., and 425 for load No. 3. Result is an even more confusing dope chart. Load No. 2 is 3 clicks up from the zero, and that makes the line x = to 410 yards.

Just spinning the knobs is far more easy to keep track of and to actually use, in my estimation.


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

Ernest said:


> Just spinning the knobs is far more easy to keep track of and to actually use, in my estimation.


If I am on the bench or target shooting, this works well.

IMO, for hunting scenarios or like your quick acquisition zombie target game, the reticle is faster to sight the correct dope for various distance targets.

I agree 100% with the FFP but I do own a couple of nice 2nd plane scopes that are "zero" at 10 or 12 power, plenty of magnification for most hunting/shooting scenarios.


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## txbred (May 13, 2013)

here is the reticle image my ballistic app generates. 100yd zero. The scope im using is the SWFA 5-20x50HD.


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## Marshman (Jul 24, 2008)

The scope in question is second focal plane - I have a couple of them. As such, the ballistic reticle is only good at one magnification anyway, if memory serves OK it is 10x on that one.

Not a big fan of ballistic reticles either, especially for hunting. I like better a good thin mil-dot ( Zeiss does offer that in both the 4x14 and the 6x20), with the scope set on the power that matches the reticle. More importantly, get Zeiss to put the low profile target knob on the elevation turret. Make a good dope chart up, tape it under clear tape to the stock, use laser RF or better laser binos to dope range. 

After practice it is easy to range with binos, glance at dope chart if your memory is short, dial up elevation, judge wind, and shot out in 3-5 seconds. If you can't do all that, set up your zero for 200-250 yards, and limit yourself to 300 yard shots, which for most people, is their realistic limit anyway.

The weather affects point of impact enough in Texas, that ballistic reticles, while not useless, aren't as accurate as you need for +300 yard shots.


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## Bottomsup (Jul 12, 2006)

Put one of these on it.


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## Rancher86 (Nov 15, 2012)

I've always found turning the knobs a lot easier and definitely more accurate. That way you can adjust elevation/windage for your specific round after printing out a drop chart for that specific round. IMO, unless extensively trained, Mil-Dot scopes are only good out to about 500 yards and less. If your gonna shot 800+, you gotta adjust the turrets. Also makes it a lot easier to hold dead on that to hold over.


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## 6.5 shooter dude (Jan 8, 2008)

Keep the same plex and have Kenton industries make a custom turret for it.
That's what I have on my 300 and it works great out to 1000 yards.


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## Muddskipper (Dec 29, 2004)

Little update:

Called Zeiss after a month for a few questions.... She said they are taking 13 weeks to get things out....which was the dissapointing news.

BUT
She said if it takes that Long they won't charge for the service and reticle change
I like FREE

I should have it in July


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## muney pit (Mar 24, 2014)

Im a mil/mil guy my self. I reload alot so a retical with one bullet at one velocity wouldnt do it for me. I use a 175 smk & a 178 amax for long range in the 308 & a 220 grain round nose for my sub sonic round. All of those i have good dope on with my mil scopes. If it just a hunting gun and you found a load thatbworks off the shelf then maybe go with a BC. Good luck either way


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