# Is CHIRP worth it?



## Dfennen29 (Feb 3, 2013)

I have realized I need to upgrade my sonar. I currently have a raymarine c97 with the p79 600 watt transducer. Pretty much sucks over about 500 ft. Looking at ray marine options it looks like the non Chirp cp300 sonar module and the transom mount tm 258 1000 watt transducer is going to run about 1500 in parts. Add 400 to that if I decide to go with the through hull low profile 1000w ducer.

The Cp450 "chirp" module with the tm265lh transome mount 1000kw transducer is going to run about 3100.00 in parts. Ad 100 if i decide to go in hull 1000kw transducer.

First, how deep will I likely see bottom with these setups? Can I expect to see bottom at the floaters, or will I have to shell out big bucks for a 2000k or even. a 3000k ducer? If I lose bottom, will I still be able to mark schools of fish?
Is CHIRP worth twice the cost?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## mstrelectricman (Jul 10, 2009)

I'm curious to hear opinions on this subject myself.


----------



## CHA CHING (May 21, 2004)

For me yes it's worth it.
I guess it all depends on what kind of fishing your doing. It also depends on what transducer you use. I have the CM599LH and the performance with the Simrad BSM-2 is incredible at any depth range.
I have heard of some buys having problems with the smaller transducers in low chirp band in somewhat deep water. I haven't experienced any of these problems and I think it's because of the transducer that I am using.
The main thing is my system gives me 100% confidence in any water depth.


----------



## Dfennen29 (Feb 3, 2013)

CHA CHING said:


> For me yes it's worth it.
> I guess it all depends on what kind of fishing your doing. It also depends on what transducer you use. I have the CM599LH and the performance with the Simrad BSM-2 is incredible at any depth range.
> I have heard of some buys having problems with the smaller transducers in low chirp band in somewhat deep water. I haven't experienced any of these problems and I think it's because of the transducer that I am using.
> The main thing is my system gives me 100% confidence in any water depth.


I eventually want to deep drop for swords.


----------



## Dfennen29 (Feb 3, 2013)

Ok, after more reading looks like I have a 3rd option ....

3000 watt digital sounder module (DSM 400) plus high performance 3000watt in hull transducer (r399). Has to bee in hull because the through hull are too bulky and I trailer. This option is around 5,000 in parts. For that much money I ought to be able to see a swordfish fart! 

So in summary...

1. Upgrade to 1000w "clear pulse" sonar module cp300 with a through hull low profile 1000w transducer. Ray marine says that is good to 5000 ft. Insert a "bul$&1t" sneeze here. I don't believe it. Around 1500 for parts.
2. Upgrade to cp450 chirp with either in hull or transom mount 1000w ducer for somewhere a little north of 3 grand.
3. Sell a kidney and go for the 3k system.

Again, my goal is to see tuna, bait, and swords/bottom type in deep water....

Chit this fishin is spensive!


----------



## My Little Big boat (Apr 24, 2012)

Dfennen29;
Chit this fishin is spensive![/QUOTE said:


> Shhhh, don't let the wife's know that!


----------



## Dfennen29 (Feb 3, 2013)

Ok, have done more reading and have decided that option 1 is out of the pic. Now, the question is, which is better? 1kw chirp sounder box with the best 1kw ducer, or 3kw digital sounder module with a 3kw ducer. Of course raymarine is pushing the chirp hard. You even have to dig into their website through their search engine to even find their 3kw digital sounder and transducers. Who has experience with both and can say which is better?


----------



## Catn' Around (May 21, 2004)

Looking to upgrade from a dsm 300 and 1 kw through hull. 

I've pretty much decided on biting the bullet and getting a garmin with gsm 26 and 3 k chirp. 

Instead of getting the dsm 450 you would probably be better off getting a furuno FCv 295.


----------



## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Been away from the blue waterfishing for a while. Please bring me up to speed regarding the 1 KW and 3 KW transducers. Are these totally separate items that are powered by the boat (DC) power)and driven by the existing sounder. In otherwords they are power boosters that the existing sounder drives and the bigger transducers actually amplify the power. If so how do they help on the recieving side, (signal back) ? I do understand electronics so dont be afraid to unload on me. I am curious.

Years back some folks were buying 1 KW ducers and hooking them up to say 300 watt machines and claiming they had 1 KW power. Dont work that way.


----------



## teckersley (May 25, 2004)

Is it worth it? Having dual Simrad NSEs, 4g, and the BSM-2/M265LH for a few trips here is my take. Yes, the BSM2/M265LH combo is having some issues that seem to be getting better with each update version from Simrad. Truth of the matter is all CHIRP technology is having issues no matter the brand. It's a learning curve for everyone. For the lower power transducers, the bulk of the issues are really only in really deep water and using auto settings. My CHIRP auto settings start freaking out around 900' but is better when you manually set the depth range and use the manual settings. In less water than that and in traditional 100-200' depths, its far an away better detail and resolution that the traditional 50/200 systems. So back to the question if its worth it. I went through the same issue. If you are adding to a new boat or completely redoing everything, I would definitely spend the extra to get it. If you can swing the extra $$, go with the 599LH as mentioned her. ChaChing has produced some great real world screens shots and the extra power doesn't seem to have the bottom lock issues in deep water as the others at the moment. If you are a really patient person, watch for sales and listings for slightly used items. I was able to buy my whole system at 52% of new. The only thing I couldn't (and still can't) find used/floor model was a 599LH. All in all, I am very happy with it.

Good luck.


----------



## Captfry (May 21, 2004)

I upgraded from a furuno 667 to garmin 4212's and GSD26, B175L (CHIRP) and kept the B164 (for 200Hz), already existing in the boat. Here's a few pics.

Old 667


----------



## Captfry (May 21, 2004)

*Chirp*

New CHIRP


----------



## Captfry (May 21, 2004)

*Chirp*

CHIRP 2, sorry for not putting them in one post Ipad won't load up more then one pic at a time???


----------



## Klesak1 (Aug 29, 2012)

Captfry said:


> CHIRP 2, sorry for not putting them in one post Ipad won't load up more then one pic at a time???


Awesome screen shots! I actually just bought the B175L and a garmin 1040xs. Can't wait to get it into the water! Did you catch the beast on your sounder in the pic?


----------



## Dfennen29 (Feb 3, 2013)

Captfry said:


> I upgraded from a furuno 667 to garmin 4212's and GSD26, B175L (CHIRP) and kept the B164 (for 200Hz), already existing in the boat. Here's a few pics.
> 
> Old 667


Wow, that gsd 26 is a chirp sounder up to 3000w. I think Raymarine only offers 1000w in the chirp version. Nice screen shots. What wattage ducer you running, and have you lost the bottom and what depth?


----------



## Captfry (May 21, 2004)

Dfennen29 said:


> Wow, that gsd 26 is a chirp sounder up to 3000w. I think Raymarine only offers 1000w in the chirp version. Nice screen shots. What wattage ducer you running, and have you lost the bottom and what depth?


The B175L is a 1k flush mount.


----------



## DRILHER (Apr 4, 2010)

If your going to deep drop for Swords get all can afford


----------



## Captfry (May 21, 2004)

DRILHER said:


> If your going to deep drop for Swords get all can afford


Or the biggest one that you have room for. Placement in front of the steps where an issue for me "Fountain"


----------



## flymost (Nov 6, 2006)

I agree for swords get all you can afford. Also, I researched quite a bit and for the life of me couldn't get any "solid" info on the Raymarine when I was looking for mine. I ended up going the Simrad route and am very pleased with it's performance. I even have the 265 transducer and have excellent coverage to 1100' and real good coverage in the sword depths, and it gets better with each software update.


----------



## Dfennen29 (Feb 3, 2013)

flymost said:


> I agree for swords get all you can afford. Also, I researched quite a bit and for the life of me couldn't get any "solid" info on the Raymarine when I was looking for mine. I ended up going the Simrad route and am very pleased with it's performance. I even have the 265 transducer and have excellent coverage to 1100' and real good coverage in the sword depths, and it gets better with each software update.


Same deal I am running into. I cant get a definitive answer as to how deep a 1000kw raymarine chirp sounder setup will shoot. According to the raymarine website, a conventional digital 1000kw setup is good for 5000 ft. Baloney! If that is the case I should be able to see to China with the chirp.


----------



## Dfennen29 (Feb 3, 2013)

CHARLIE said:


> Been away from the blue waterfishing for a while. Please bring me up to speed regarding the 1 KW and 3 KW transducers. Are these totally separate items that are powered by the boat (DC) power)and driven by the existing sounder. In otherwords they are power boosters that the existing sounder drives and the bigger transducers actually amplify the power. If so how do they help on the recieving side, (signal back) ? I do understand electronics so dont be afraid to unload on me. I am curious.
> 
> Years back some folks were buying 1 KW ducers and hooking them up to say 300 watt machines and claiming they had 1 KW power. Dont work that way.


It is my understanding, and believe me when I say I didn't know anything about this before 8:00 this morning (been reading all day), that you will never get better performance than what your sounder box is capable of providing. If you have a 1kw sounder and a high dollar 3kw ducer, you have a 1 kw system. On the other hand, if you have a 3 kw sounder, and a 1 kw ducer, you still have a 1 kw system. Dang, that made my head hurt. And that brings me to the holy trinity of questions....does any body know what is better, a 3kw digital sonar module with a 3kw transducer( "old school and about 5 grand"), or a 1kw chirp module with a 1 kw chirp transducer (new high speed low drag system for around 3 grand"). And when I say "better" i mean 2500feet and clarity.


----------



## DRILHER (Apr 4, 2010)

I don't think a 1kw anything would be a good choice for /2500'. 2kw would probably do well. Chirp gives you better ability to separate single fish so is great for even shallower water. More detail and better fish detection


----------



## [email protected] Sportfishing (Jun 10, 2005)

We've got Simrad 3kw chirp. It is amazing. Totally worth it IMO.


----------



## bjd76 (Jan 12, 2008)

You need to call and talk to "semper fi fishing" on the hull truth. He will give you the straight poop.
I have a gsd 24 and ss264 pair of 1kw transducers. I'm looking for tuna in the top 500ft of water and it does a good job of it. I also stopped 100 miles out and it marked bottom at 2850ft but I can't tell you if it marked fish as I don't swordfish (yet?) and wasn't looking for anything... Actually, we were at a weed line and I was looking for dorado! It isn't all about the wattage when marking fish... the number and size of the elements in the transducer impact sensitivity.


----------



## Klesak1 (Aug 29, 2012)

Agreed semper fi fishing has helped me many a time! He is the electronics guru!


----------



## samh (Oct 13, 2011)

bjd76 said:


> You need to call and talk to "semper fi fishing" on the hull truth.


X2 
I almost replied with same comment after reading the original post glad I decided to read entire thread first.

I hope it ok to link to a thread on another forum .... here is some good info for the OP and the electronics guy... and anyone else who wants to get confused.
http://www.thehulltruth.com/marine-...221-chirp-sounders-fish-finder-explained.html


----------



## texasblue (Sep 4, 2012)

In addition to forum folks, we also spent much time with Garmin technical support.

We already had set of Garmin 4212's. We upgraded old transducer with addition of GSD26 black box and R111 L/M for transducer. We are new to them and slowly taking advantage of myriad of settings which are pretty remarkable.

So far it's almost humorous how good it is. Admittedly, we may have gone overboard with transducer but wanted no doubt of application to deep drop and floaters. No regrets except less money now for food beyond fish.

So to answer the question it depends where on the graph money and performance needs intersect for you. Personally, It's definitely expensive but well worth it given what we spend on other equipment, time and type fishing. Can't even compare to our old 1kw "regular" transducer. It was like shooting in the dark in comparison.


----------



## Dfennen29 (Feb 3, 2013)

bjd76 said:


> You need to call and talk to "semper fi fishing" on the hull truth. He will give you the straight poop.
> I have a gsd 24 and ss264 pair of 1kw transducers. I'm looking for tuna in the top 500ft of water and it does a good job of it. I also stopped 100 miles out and it marked bottom at 2850ft but I can't tell you if it marked fish as I don't swordfish (yet?) and wasn't looking for anything... Actually, we were at a weed line and I was looking for dorado! It isn't all about the wattage when marking fish... the number and size of the elements in the transducer impact sensitivity.


Definitely will contact him. Thanks Bruce. Like I said before, before 8:00 this morning i didn't know diddly squat about all of the options as far as sounders/transducers. Heck, I am still enamored with xm radio on the boat! Auto pilot is kinda sexy too...


----------



## Dfennen29 (Feb 3, 2013)

texasblue said:


> In addition to forum folks, we also spent much time with Garmin technical support.
> 
> We already had set of Garmin 4212's. We upgraded old transducer with addition of GSD26 black box and R111 L/M for transducer. We are new to them and slowly taking advantage of myriad of settings which are pretty remarkable.
> 
> ...


Dang, sounds like you are impressed with that combo. The GSD 26 box is 3000w, and the transducer is 2000 w and it is a chirp system, right?. The pisser, unless I am missing something on the raymarine site, is raymarine only offers chirp technology up to 1000w. Shame on themðŸ˜ª. Maybe I will end up with a garmin display mounted proudly next to the raymarine display. That might be like running a mercury next to a yamaha on the same boat. Not sure I could sleep at night, and I certainly would not be able to walk around in public during daylight hours, but it might work.


----------



## doughboy361 (Mar 5, 2010)

Chirp is not rated by 1kw, 2kw, or 3kw. The bigger the ducer you get for chirp the better it is. PERIOD!!! I'm using the Simrad with M265LH. It will pick up 2,000' fine but I need update the software to better fine tune the machine.


----------



## DRILHER (Apr 4, 2010)

doughboy361 said:


> Chirp is not rated by 1kw, 2kw, or 3kw. The bigger the ducer you get for chirp the better it is. PERIOD!!! I'm using the Simrad with M265LH. It will pick up 2,000' fine but I need update the software to better fine tune the machine.


My chirp sounder is rated for 3KW and My transducer is 3KW. I don't what size has to do with it, but my wife size mine is huge.


----------



## CHARLIE (Jun 2, 2004)

Transducers are rated in wattage because its the amount of power they can take without going up in smoke. They are an antenna that xmitts and receives signals. If you put a 3 KW ducer on a 1 KW machine you still have 1 KW no matter what the ducer is rated for. Bigger probably is more efficient than a smaller one because of the more surface. Now if the ducer is hooked up to boat power (whatever that may be) then somehow it probably will be an booster or amplifier. Just havent looked at that or how it is done. But just hooking a 3 KW ducer direct to the output cable of a 500 watt machine does not make it a 3 KW machine. Still gonna be 500 watt. Jus sayin.

See yall leaving for Isla Mujeres right now.


----------



## texasblue (Sep 4, 2012)

Dfennen29 said:


> Dang, sounds like you are impressed with that combo. The GSD 26 box is 3000w, and the transducer is 2000 w and it is a chirp system, right?. The pisser, unless I am missing something on the raymarine site, is raymarine only offers chirp technology up to 1000w. Shame on themí ½í¸ª. Maybe I will end up with a garmin display mounted proudly next to the raymarine display. That might be like running a mercury next to a yamaha on the same boat. Not sure I could sleep at night, and I certainly would not be able to walk around in public during daylight hours, but it might work.


Check out this video. It's our learning curve for operation with the GSD 26. Im not an engineer. I can only say that we are beyond impressed with capabilities. Also, keep in mind we only looked into compatible items with the Garmin 4212 since we didnt want to spend more money replacing monitors.


----------



## bluedevil (Apr 28, 2005)

I have been going through this very same debate myself and put myself through an internet education on this stuff a few months ago. This presentation from Airmar was helpful for me in understanding what CHIRP brings to the table. I also read a bunch of stuff from Semper Fi on the Hulltruth.

http://www.airmartechnology.com/uploads/Brochures/MIBS 2012 CHIRP Presentation.pdf

The best I can seem to understand is that with a CHIRP unit, power becomes less important, and transducer size/elements are of greater importance. That said, it seems like the CHIRP transducers with the most elements are typically rated for higher power. All that is to say, with CHIRP, it sounds like there are advantages to having a "higher power" (ie more elements) transducer even if your box does not put out as much power as the transducer's max power rating.

We already have a full spread of Raymarine electronics, so, as of now, I am looking at the CP450. If I was starting fresh I would likely go with Garmin or Furuno given all the positive reviews I have heard. But given what we have already, I would love to hear some stories from anybody who fishes in this area that has experience with the CP450 in particular.


----------



## donaken (Nov 25, 2010)

*hmmm...*

Here's our "CHIRP" technology....I think the only justification you need to buy it...is want it. If it was a decision based on needs, then I would need to justify the expense over anything else I might need for the boat...ie, chirp or sat phone...chirp or epirb...chirp or life raft...chirp or radar...chirp or new fishn equipment...but, if you have everything else...sounds like a "want"...good luck


----------



## Dfennen29 (Feb 3, 2013)

bluedevil said:


> I have been going through this very same debate myself and put myself through an internet education on this stuff a few months ago. This presentation from Airmar was helpful for me in understanding what CHIRP brings to the table. I also read a bunch of stuff from Semper Fi on the Hulltruth.
> 
> http://www.airmartechnology.com/uploads/Brochures/MIBS 2012 CHIRP Presentation.pdf
> 
> ...


That is what I think I am starting to understand about the new technology. With Chirp systems, performance goes up as the number of broadband ceramic elements goes up....I think.... And to get a ducer with a high number of elements, you have to step up in wattage. Right now I am looking at the cp450 and the r111c broadband chirp transducer. That transducer has 15 elements.


----------



## CHA CHING (May 21, 2004)

The first image is with an Airmar B265LH transducer flush or pocket mounted. 
The second is a CM599LH transducer flush or pocket mounted.

The definition of the 599 is incredible because I can turn the gain way down and still achieve good targets without much interference. The arches would be more pronounced if I were running at normal or even x2 scroll speed but these were taken at 6 or 8 times scroll speed.
The third picture really shows DSL well.
I have some screen shots a little deeper and can get them next time I'm down at the boat. I have seen fish as deeper than 4K feet with the 599.
Is it worth it? Only you can answer that all I know is that it's definitely the future. By the best you can afford sonar unit that you can afford. You can always upgrade transducers down the road. With firmware updates the technology keeps getting better and better.


----------



## CHA CHING (May 21, 2004)

Couple more pictures.
One shows tuna fishing.
Other is flush mounted transducer.


----------



## Dfennen29 (Feb 3, 2013)

Cha ching. Awesome. Thanks


----------



## Texastailboard (Oct 4, 2012)

I am also going to have a electronic refit, whole package, I have learned a lot reading this post. I have a question for you guys, which system, plotter, radar, sounder would you go with if you were to start fresh. Needs some direction.


----------



## broadonrod (Feb 26, 2010)

I am not up to speed with all the newest electronics but I will say this. Furuno NavNet 3D is what we use. I have had 4 different brands of bottom machines and other electronics over the last couple of boats. We have been offered by two manufactures to fully replace our equipment with theirs at no charge and not done it because we are so happy with Furuno. Furuno is not a sponsor of ours we just like it and have had great luck with it. My boat came with Ray Marine and after several attempts it could not do what we needed it to do.. I'm pretty sold on the Furuno stuff..

On another note think about touch screens with wet hands marking up the screen before going touch screen... Just a thought. We use our Furuno more than anything in the boat I think.. I added one to the cockpit 2 seasons ago because I got tired of running back and forth looking at the bottom all day... We have a 3k transducer and it is incredible! I hear great things about many other brands but no nothing about them... Brett/ Capt. Ahab


----------



## CHA CHING (May 21, 2004)

As Brett said a Furuno 3kw system is unbelievable. I had one in my previous boat. 
The future is chirp and it's available. Like I said in a previous post, chirp is only going to get better with time. I know running the Simrad BSM-2 over the last 3 years firmware upgrades are making it better and better and I can only imagine it will continue to improve.


----------



## papotanic36 (May 22, 2005)

*Gsd 26*

I use and did some R&D on the Garmin Gsd 26 with a 3kw chirp.
It has always been impressive from the Gulf to the Bahamas at 14000 ft to Costa Rica and Cabo. From hard spot fishing to marlin fishing. I like Garmin my self!


----------



## doughboy361 (Mar 5, 2010)

Cha Ching: I'm looking at the screen shot you post marking tuna. Is your software the latest? I seen some other screen shot on THT that when it marks a fish it's a arc and I think it's the last test software. The reason why I'm asking is I'm still running the old software and it ain't worth a ****. I need to update it asap.


----------



## CHA CHING (May 21, 2004)

doughboy361 said:


> Cha Ching: I'm looking at the screen shot you post marking tuna. Is your software the latest? I seen some other screen shot on THT that when it marks a fish it's a arc and I think it's the last test software. The reason why I'm asking is I'm still running the old software and it ain't worth a ****. I need to update it asap.


No, that screenshot was with a beta version that I was running last year.
The only reason why the fish aren't shown as arches was because I was running the scroll speed too fast. I was running at x4 scroll instead of normal.
When you speed the scroll speed up the fish arches will flatten out like you see. If the fish are moving up and or down in the water column the fish will show as lines as in the picture below.
For you guys who don't know, your transducer is shooting a cone. Starting at the transducer face the cone angle remains the same although the deeper there turn the wider the bottom coverage.
When a fish passes into the cone angle the fish is further away from the tranducer face. Bs the fish comes closer to the center of the cone the fish or target is closer to the transducer face. As the fish moves toward the opposite edge of the cone the fish is further away again.
Imagine 2 triangles side by side. First part of the beam is the hypotenuse of triangle 1 then the center is the side adjacent of both triangles then the target moves to the hypotenuse of triangle 2 forming the inverted V.
The screenshot below shows fish swimming up and down in the water column following the boats drift. Most likely endangered snapper.


----------



## texasblue (Sep 4, 2012)

As we did, I would suggest doing the research first on what is compatible with your existing monitor/display. You may be able to go outside your existing brand for the black box or maybe not. Unless, of course, money is not an issue and you have your pick of whole new system.


----------



## Skeeter2525 (Mar 30, 2012)

Call the people at Airmar who makes the transducers. They are very helpful in determining what you need for the boat you have plus know what the transducer will do so they can tell you what you need for wha you want to do.


----------

