# Engineers



## Category6 (Nov 21, 2007)

Why are engineers so convinced they are always the smartest person in the room and that they know everything about everything? Dang they annoy me. In a meeting today I rattled of some math worked out in my head, and wouldnâ€™t you know was questioned by the young engineer customer in the room, who proceeded to work the math out on his phone for 5 minutes and came up with exactly what I already said. Irritating.


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## Category6 (Nov 21, 2007)

Also it was more than just that, he questioned my knowledge of and plan for cleaning his heat exchangers, of which Iâ€™ve cleaned tens of thousands and I know heâ€™s cleaned exactly zero. Rant over, but if youâ€™re an engineer just know youâ€™re not necessarily an expert on everything.


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## pmgoffjr (Jul 30, 2009)

Yes....yes they are. 
The never ending battle is they are smarter than the customer.


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## hockeyref999 (Aug 12, 2005)

Easy now. Deep breaths. You’ll be ok.


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## Navi (Jun 2, 2009)

I see it regularly, thereâ€™s a few good ones in mix but from my experience many are just as you said.


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## fishingcacher (Mar 29, 2008)




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## Mattsfishin (Aug 23, 2009)

Yes sir they are like that. Only seen a couple that would give you any respect no matter how many years you have been doing the work.


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## marshrunner757 (Apr 7, 2015)

As a designer, I work with them on a daily basis. One thing I've learned over the years is this. One on one, stand your ground. In a meeting, let them use your knowledge and/or answer as their own. This has gained more respect than I can explain. 

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## WillieT (Aug 25, 2010)

I have a close friend that resembles that remark.


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## Bird (May 10, 2005)

I posted this at work. We had a fresh out of school engineer argue with a senior operator who has 26 years at this plant, was here when they built it, and was trained by the engineers who designed and modeled the plant....


In the interest of full disclosure, I am married to an aerospace engineer .


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## cadjockey (Jul 30, 2009)

Meh, I fight with them all the time, usually "consulting" or project management types. I sort of enjoy it, and it gets interesting when they find out I'm the idiot, card carrying engineer that designed a fair amount of the machinery in their plant. It usually turns into a learning experience for them. 

Just be aware that all engineers are not created equal, some of us have been around the block a time or two and value/rely on the experience and input from the assembly/fab shop guys, service engineers, and contractors to make our jobs easier and products better. Also, sounds like hydroblasting work, spent my early career in that biz..sort of miss it at times.


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## Category6 (Nov 21, 2007)

Yes hydroblasting


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## jimij (Jan 30, 2012)

Thereâ€™s a difference between being educated and being intelligent. 
Lots of young engineers havenâ€™t learned that yet


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## bg (May 21, 2004)

When I was doing a lot of irrigation repair work, we always knew we had a high priced repair when the call started with, "My husband is an engineer and tried to fix it...". Some of the creative solutions they came up with really left me scratching my head they always lefty wallet fatter also.

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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

As the GC project manager, I have made a LOT of money fixing stuff that engineers (and a fair number of architects as well) just KNEW was the right way to do it. So I just bide my time, make the engineer acknowledge my objections, document the heck out of them accepting responsibility, then make the guys install it EXACTLY like the drawings, then when it doesn't fit/work get PAID to tear it all out and redo it. Something like schedule compression, working out of sequence, extended overhead, overtime/expedited schedule, etc. always fits to up the ante.


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## stdreb27 (Aug 15, 2011)

Thatâ€™s anyone with a degree in general. Walking out of college I thought I could run a Fortune 500 company. 

10 years out of school. Iâ€™m finally learning what I donâ€™t know. 


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## BullyARed (Jun 19, 2010)

I am an engineer and my wife calls me a red neck and our grandson corrected her, no grandma papa has brown neck! :biggrin: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :dance:


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## marshrunner757 (Apr 7, 2015)

stdreb27 said:


> Thatâ€™s anyone with a degree in general. Walking out of college I thought I could run a Fortune 500 company.
> 
> 10 years out of school. Iâ€™m finally learning what I donâ€™t know.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Agree. Most of these kids graduate and think the books taught them everything they need to know. Until they make 5-10 years, they should listen more than they talk. The ones that turn out to be great engineers are the ones that listen.

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## marshrunner757 (Apr 7, 2015)

BullyARed said:


> I am an engineer and my wife calls me a red neck and our grandson corrected her, no grandma papa has brown neck!  :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :dance:


My kind of engineer lol. One of the guys instead of the engineer.

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## cadjockey (Jul 30, 2009)

Category5 said:


> Yes hydroblasting


Thought so, that's where I learned to spend more time running the tools and pumps with the crews rather than sitting behind the computer, and the absolute inability to sacrifice safety for speed/production. Maybe they should make all new eng grads grab a slicker and run a shotgun on a blasting pad for a few years before giving them an office.


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## manwitaplan (Dec 9, 2005)

try to question a NASA engineer on concrete when they have never even seen a construction site. He told me to warp the concrete. WHAT????????


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## cajunasian (Mar 7, 2007)

As a designer, Iâ€™ve fixed many Engineers dream work. What annoys me the most is when they take my redesigned work and put their Pro E. stamp on it, only to claim it was their work. I do enjoy it when my team bust their bubble in the meetings.


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## Ready.Fire.Aim (Sep 22, 2009)

I got a Junior Tinkertoy Engineer Certificate when I was a kid. 

It was exactly like this one I found on the Internet. 

Does that count?


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## Category6 (Nov 21, 2007)

Itâ€™s funny I was a junior in ME at TAMU before I switched to wildlife and fisheries, graduated and went into industrial cleaning. Long story how that all happened. My Dad is a PE and he often annoys the **** out of me too!


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## Mr. Saltwater (Oct 5, 2012)

I've seen a lot of simple cost effective fabrication jobs turned into unnecessary boondoggles by know it all engineers...at taxpayer expense.


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## stammster - temporary (Jul 20, 2009)

Hey...you guys all need to settle down. If it wasnâ€™t for engineers, trains would get anywhere.


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## stdreb27 (Aug 15, 2011)

stammster said:


> Hey...you guys all need to settle down. If it wasnâ€™t for engineers, trains would get anywhere.


Haha!

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## stdreb27 (Aug 15, 2011)

marshrunner757 said:


> Agree. Most of these kids graduate and think the books taught them everything they need to know. Until they make 5-10 years, they should listen more than they talk. The ones that turn out to be great engineers are the ones that listen.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


I had an Econ degree, I couldnâ€™t get hired for the position I wanted at the last job because I wasnâ€™t an MBA.

I got a different job within the department and spent a good chunk of my time explaining excel and what they wanted to track and report so they could do their job well to the MBAâ€™s that held the position I had wanted.

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## BullyARed (Jun 19, 2010)

stammster said:


> Hey...you guys all need to settle down. If it wasnâ€™t for engineers, trains would get anywhere.


and you would not have internet and web browser or you still fish out of that wooden jon boat!  Easy now, not all like that.


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## grouper150 (Oct 24, 2006)

you ever use blast bags when cleaning the exchangers


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## 2Ws (Jun 28, 2016)

stammster said:


> Hey...you guys all need to settle down. If it wasnâ€™t for engineers, trains would get anywhere.


WRONG!!! The ENGINEERS on the RR have the same mindset as the engineers here. 
The truth is a RR engineers brain is as big as the little light in the conductors lantern, he ONLY moves the train when the light tells him to.


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## goodwood (Mar 30, 2009)

Not just engineers but its young people. They think they know everything.


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## Inspector Scotty (Jun 25, 2016)

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## Garwood57 (Jul 1, 2007)

What I see today is a lot of new engineers that might be "book smart" but do not have the practical experience they need. Every engineer should start with practical experience in the field, learning the operations, the tools, and gaining that knowledge from the field personnel that have been working the plant, the field, etc for years. I worked 36 years in the oil patch and early valuable time and experience was gained working in the field operations. As I progressed in my career, I always first went out to meet with the operations folks and understand their concerns and listen to their recommendations. With time, I saw many "spreadsheet engineers" and not enough practical ones.


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## fishingcacher (Mar 29, 2008)

I suspect every engineer fresh out of school wants to make a contribution or to be noticed by management. The smart ones learn from those with many years of experience. I am a retired engineer so I am no longer a problem!


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## MARK MACALUSO (Sep 29, 2010)

I am no engineer but I do believe in learning a business from the ground up. I own my own business now but I was a "Grease Monkey " for a long time to gain experience in every aspect of my business..


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## Aquafowler (Aug 9, 2016)

I just wish engineers would consult with a mechanic every now and then. Might save me a few hours tear there junk apart.


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## Shooter (Jun 10, 2004)

The company I work for has a mentoring program. Our newly hired (fresh out of school) engineers are required to be out in the field and work with the superintends / construction managers. When / if they survive they will be allowed to voice their REAL world opinions based on experience. One out of five will survive and go on to become an asset to the company.


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## Hollywood1053 (May 15, 2009)

goodwood said:


> Not just engineers but its young people. They think they know everything.


So true.....


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## SetDaHook (Oct 21, 2010)

In my line of work, I often have engineers greet me with a folder or thick binder documenting everything they think I need to know. It immediately goes in the trash. 

BTW my son just graduated from UT Austin as an aerospace engineer but I made him promise that he wouldn't become geeky or a know it all.


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## pmgoffjr (Jul 30, 2009)

I go rounds with the knuckleheads...they think the old sales whore is just another clueless twit. The old guy has a CE and spent 25 years selling and installing semiconductor process equipment. This stuff is pretty low brow technology. 



Customer has request, do this and we're in. Simple and basic tweaks to a firmware setting...you can't do that, no sparky YOU can't do that, so let me teach you how. Oh yeah it's game on then. But....but....


Let's do it the stupidest way possible, just because it's easier for you.


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## owens33 (May 2, 2007)

I haven't seen a lot of that. our managers are engineers and they're pretty good. for the most part they let us do what we want and provide support and advice.


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## Humble Fisherman (Sep 28, 2011)

*I resemble that remark !*

Structural Engineer here, but I like fishing better .

HF


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## jebber (Mar 21, 2016)

I work a lot with Civil Engineers. And lawyers. And developers. And Architects. And Government employees.


In my opinion, it isn't the profession or the age - it's the person. Of course, it don't get much worse than a young know-it-all.


There is an old saying about being able to learn something from everyone you meet. Too many people don't or won't keep an open mind.


Just my opinion. My wife once told me - 'you don't think you're perfect, but you do think you're always right'.


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## bassguitarman (Nov 29, 2005)

When I started with Gulf Oil in the middle 70's, all production engineers started their careers in the field under a production supervisor's thumb. The four guys I worked with had 36-42 years of experience with the company doing field work. I quickly learned how much I didn't know. It really helped me when I was writing procedures in the office to coordinate with the guys in the field. 

My dad taught me as a kid that the phrase "I know" was the quickest way to stop someone who was trying to teach you something. 

I still do some field work. When I get to a site, one of the first things I do is tell every man there that if he has a better or safer idea - let me know. You'd be surprised how much time and money I have saved over the years by listening to an idea from the man running the rig.


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## Sunbeam (Feb 24, 2009)

We had a saying offshore.
"an engineer can produce a drawing of a pig F'n a elephant but it hard to make it happen if all you have in a cutting torch and a hammer"


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## POCplugger (Jul 6, 2011)

Aquafowler said:


> I just wish engineers would consult with a mechanic every now and then. Might save me a few hours tear there junk apart.


Heck yes!!! Finally someone who says the same thing I do on an almost daily basis with these Electrical/mechanical engineers I deal with at my office everyday...very very frustrating dealing with these guys when you try to tell them hey look man Ive been installing/commissioning/ trouble shooting this equipment for years longer than youve even been here, yet you feel the need to make your self look smart....they dont look so smart when the financials of a job come to table and they get to answer for all their book smarts! haha


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## Snookered (Jun 16, 2009)

as an environmental consultant for 20 years now, I've had to learn how to speak/think like an engineer....y'all are right, the young ones need to learn to listen more...


now architects, don't even get me started....I have no idea what color the sky is in their world; it ain't blue like mine...


sunbeam, as always, good one...
snookered


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## POCplugger (Jul 6, 2011)

Shooter said:


> The company I work for has a mentoring program. Our newly hired (fresh out of school) engineers are required to be out in the field and work with the superintends / construction managers. When / if they survive they will be allowed to voice their REAL world opinions based on experience. One out of five will survive and go on to become an asset to the company.


this is another program i have been *****ing about big time at my office. Put their butts in the field and lets teach them how this stuff ACTUALLY works before we let them at the controls and start designing jobs and putting out incorrect Submittals, and making everyone else's work life miserable...:cheers:


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## goatchze (Aug 1, 2006)

Aquafowler said:


> I just wish engineers would consult with a mechanic every now and then. Might save me a few hours tear there junk apart.


This. I want to strangle whatever engineer designed the climate control on my truck. I'm about to replace the A/C evap and it's going to take me an entire day just to get do the dang thing and then put everything back together!

PS: I'm an engineer. It's the person, not the degree.


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## Gulfgoose (Sep 25, 2017)

When I was in sales I dealt with a lot of young engineers. My common sense and country rigging saved their butt's a lot when we were working on projects together. My favorite was "Hey buddy that square catch ain't going to fit on that round hole"....they built it anyway with the hatch cover sticking out over the wet well...then had to re do it.


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## LouieB (Jun 7, 2005)

I can definitely tell when one comes into the shop.

Asks more questions than they really need to about the simplest and dumbest stuff.
Then they ask how I'm going to fix it. My standard response..."with a hammer".


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## mstrelectricman (Jul 10, 2009)

Can't tell you how many of these type folks,(actually it's usually their wives) that call me to come and fix something they screwed up at their home. MOF, just took a call at 0600 this morning from a wife that said, 'my husband is an engineer and he tried to fix our water well. He changed the breaker but it still keeps tripping.'
My boys show up and find a bad underground feeder, temp it in and the little lady is so happy to be able to use the rest room.

I have seen very few with the smarts to listen.
Being a master electrician with too many years experience to even count, the young 'electrical' engineers are the worst. They always wanna prove they're smarter but have to call my people out to fix their screw ups. Hilarious.


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## TxAirhedz (Jul 23, 2017)

Intelligence and experience will get you a lot farther than just education. 

When you have someone with intelligence and education they will know they donâ€™t yet have the experience. 

NOW, when you have intelligence, education, AND experience.....well, THEN youâ€™ve got something there. 

The only problem is most people highly overrate their own intelligence. 

My grandpa used to say â€œthere are lots of educated idiots running aroundâ€.


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## Mrschasintail (Dec 8, 2004)

I work at an engineering firm... it's the most annoying thing ever.


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## Walleyewilly (Jan 31, 2017)

Someone beat me to the wrestling with a pig in the mud quote. 

Think its bad working with them, try being ONE and managing a whole group of them!!!!! 

I am so glad I went to a 5 year program that had 15 mos. co-op experience as a requirement to graduate. That "real world" experience put me so far ahead of the game after I graduated.


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

I will add that with the passing of the "Engineering Practices Act" they got WAAAYYYY smarter. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.


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## BullyARed (Jun 19, 2010)

TxAirhedz said:


> My grandpa used to say â€œthere are lots of educated idiots running around *Washington DC*â€.


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## goatchze (Aug 1, 2006)

RB II said:


> I will add that with the passing of the "Engineering Practices Act" they got WAAAYYYY smarter. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.


You were 8 when that law was passed. What are you comparing to?


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## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

Well, I am not an engineer, and I worked hand in hand with them for 21+ years. I have seen some who were a PITA for sure, but also some really brilliant ones. Honestly, I liked more of them than I disliked, by a decent margin. If you take a person who is intelligent to begin with, educate them to an engineer, then MBA, and if they have some personality to boot, there is no limit for them.


Something I have noticed too, is that some surgeons and doctors started out as engineers.


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## LouieB (Jun 7, 2005)

I believe over half the people that claim they are engineers actually only stayed at a Holiday Inn Express.


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## cloudfishing (May 8, 2005)

They have a schedule, everyone of them. You get a call "you need to be in Williston ND on Tuesday for plant start up " you argue with them that they are not ready. Then You get on a plane and fly up there and get to the site and the project manager says "what are you doing here ? we will not need you for three weeks"


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## GT11 (Jan 1, 2013)

Why do they think they are the smartest guys in the room? Because they typically are, 33% of the S&P 500 CEO's are engineers compared to only 11% with business majors. Engineers make up half of the Fortune top 12 CEO list, lead by Jeff Bezos of Amazon.

Some are better than others but they had to be extremely smart to complete those programs. Part of the problem you run into is that common sense and intelligence are many times inversely proportional. The ones that have both usually end up running companies.


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## TOMBOB (Apr 9, 2012)

I told them the ductwork will collapse. Engineer in writing said "It'll be OK". 2 months later we are in there putting band-aids on it.


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## BullyARed (Jun 19, 2010)

More engineer bashing here than otherwise just saying and they must have done some thing right! :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Here is the secret medicine for dealing with engineer:

First time: You are correct, sir
Second Time: You are definitely correct, sir
Third Time: You are always correct, sir
...
Fourth time: Just kick their asses! "Have I made myself clear, sir!" 

and my wife calls me a ******* engineer!


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## K LoLo (Sep 5, 2012)

I have felt this way as well.

My biggest peeve about it is, they always seem to be "fixing" something that isn't actually broken. Our taking the long way to do something.

Remember my BIL (electrical engineer) was around when my dad and I pulled a solenoid out. It had failed. My BIL spent time trying to figure out how to take it apart, like "we can just rebuild this." 

My Dad (probably late 40's at the time, high school education) was like, "you know, we can just go to the store and buy that for like 10 bucks." 

Just because you're smart, doesn't mean you know what you're doing.


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## Toby_Corgi (Mar 11, 2015)

I've been an engineering design manager at high tech companies for about 35 years and am about to retire after 42 years in the field. I can certainly relate to much of what's been shared. Here are a few of my observations:

By far, the best engineers apply what they learn from the people who have to implement or use what they design. I know it took me a while to figure that out as it does most engineers who are new to industry because it's not taught. You're taught to have all the answers. Unfortunately, some never figure out that in reality they don't.

Engineering college curriculums are generally extremely difficult. While engineering students are studying hard, many of their friends in other majors are partying and others didn't attend college. After 4+ years of that, they conclude that they're more educated about how things work than most, and they're probably right.

This leads them to believe they are the smartest person in the room which, of course, is not necessarily the case. It just depends on the room which some never figure out.

In most cases, engineers must consider a wide range of regulations (safety, environmental, etc.) and/or other factors that aren't obvious. As a result, some designs aren't as simple or elegant as they could have been were it not for these restrictions, but most observers don't realize all the factors the engineer is having to consider. So cut them a break sometimes, most engineers don't like it, either.

Just like every other degreed field, half the engineers were in the bottom half of their class. I've worked with many who are brilliant and others who you wonder how they got a degree at all.

Most of today's modern conveniences like smartphones, cellular infrastructure, the internet, GPS satellites, etc. are far more complex than the vast majority of users realize. I've worked on leading edge stuff for 42 years and am still amazed by what is required to design and produce something like an iPhone in the hundreds of millions of units a year. Something like that takes thousands of engineers at least a couple of years to develop, and they're already building on past efforts. Amazing that any of it works at all, but it does. So thank an engineer, even if some of them can be jerks sometimes.


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## fishcat01 (Mar 24, 2005)

^^^^ Thank you for that. I've been a registered civil engineer in the water and wastewater field for 35-40 years. Folks generally have no clue what it takes to get potable water to their faucet it, or treat their wastewater before it discharges into a future surface water source or into our bay systems and ultimately the Gulf of Mexico. They just turn on the tap and expect it to be there or flush it away, never to think about it again. You should thank engineers for what they do; even if some of them are jerks. :wink:


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## BullyARed (Jun 19, 2010)

^^^! Right on. Engineers make live better! Without engineering there would be no modern medical technology, no modern oil & gas drilling, no iPhone, no big LED screen, no internet, no Yamaha/Mercury outboard for your boat, no Curado, no GPS, no DF/FF, .... They are analytical and solution driven.


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## RB II (Feb 26, 2009)

goatchze said:


> You were 8 when that law was passed. What are you comparing to?


I first heard about it in about 1995 doing work for a public entity and in design meetings. Their engineers starting pushing for the enforcement of it and pushed hard enough that they took control of all design/construction for that entity.

After that, those engineers held themselves in a much higher esteem.

Like I said, power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Not that they did anything illegal with their newly gained power, it just went to their heads in a major way. It may well have just been that group of engineers, but the change was very visible and a total "demand" with a veiled threat along with it.


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## Category6 (Nov 21, 2007)

I respect engineering as a profession, just that some of the youngsters think because they passed differential equations and fluid dynamics they are automatically the smartest person on earth. They canâ€™t work out mildly complex math without a calculator though. Forgot to mention the guy was a yankee, might have something to do with it.


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## monark (May 12, 2005)

mstrelectricman said:


> Can't tell you how many of these type folks,(actually it's usually their wives) that call me to come and fix something they screwed up at their home. MOF, just took a call at 0600 this morning from a wife that said, 'my husband is an engineer and he tried to fix our water well. He changed the breaker but it still keeps tripping.'
> My boys show up and find a bad underground feeder, temp it in and the little lady is so happy to be able to use the rest room.
> 
> I have seen very few with the smarts to listen.
> Being a master electrician with too many years experience to even count, the young 'electrical' engineers are the worst. They always wanna prove they're smarter but have to call my people out to fix their screw ups. Hilarious.


I can guarantee you that a Master Electrician did not build the power plants and power transmission systems that allows you to make a living working on residential issues.



Toby_Corgi said:


> I've been an engineering design manager at high tech companies for about 35 years and am about to retire after 42 years in the field. I can certainly relate to much of what's been shared. Here are a few of my observations:
> 
> By far, the best engineers apply what they learn from the people who have to implement or use what they design. I know it took me a while to figure that out as it does most engineers who are new to industry because it's not taught. You're taught to have all the answers. Unfortunately, some never figure out that in reality they don't.
> 
> ...


Well said. I'm an ME with 35 years. Started young, book smart & real world stupid but knew the difference. Listened to mentors, operators, craftsmen & 35 years later, I'm the smartest SOB in the company. Any questions?


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## cman (Apr 17, 2009)

I just emailed my engineers this week-

Breaking ground this week on the Guadalupe riverfront build. Starting with septic thankfully. 

2 story home. 1800 sf. Twelve- 16" cement piers "at least 8' deep" according to the engineers. 
No bell bottoms on piers. Soil is mostly sand. Email asking them to confirm the foundation before we lay it all on the line. It's the 2nd time I've requested they confirm the plan. Doesn't make sense to me but hopefully they have it right. 

I dug a test hole for the septic that was 5' deep. I dug straight down, no wider than the shovel head, 5' into the ground. Took me a few minutes. Soft and sandy.

I don't know how that soil can support a 2 story house let alone the partial stone exterior, stone fireplace, rock wall garage under house, driveway under, tile, etc.


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## cadjockey (Jul 30, 2009)

monark said:


> I can guarantee you that a Master Electrician did not build the power plants and power transmission systems that allows you to make a living working on residential issues.


Lol, sort of analogous to the guy pumping gas into my rent car last week in NJ. Voiced my opinion on the no self-serve gas pumping in NJ deal and he went into a tirade about how I should thank him for the privilege of being able to drive a car. Must have been a journeyman gas pumping technician.


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## Csafisher (Nov 16, 2010)

cadjockey said:


> Lol, sort of analogous to the guy pumping gas into my rent car last week in NJ. Voiced my opinion on the no self-serve gas pumping in NJ deal and he went into a tirade about how I should thank him for the privilege of being able to drive a car. Must have been a journeyman gas pumping technician.


Lol! I hate NJ. Always pumped my own gas. Screw them. Some would get all offended.

On another note there sure seems to be a lot of haters here. Iâ€™m a fisherman and a hunter but I got an engineering degree to buy more lures and ammo. I work mostly in the field and enjoy it. Thereâ€™s bad apples in every profession.


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## kweber (Sep 20, 2005)

after fixing broken parts on a lot of ag and const eqip, I'd love to put my hands on that design engineer's throat


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## Blank Czech (Jul 26, 2016)

cadjockey said:


> Thought so, that's where I learned to spend more time running the tools and pumps with the crews rather than sitting behind the computer, and the absolute inability to sacrifice safety for speed/production. Maybe they should make all new eng grads grab a slicker and run a shotgun on a blasting pad for a few years before giving them an office.


My boss told me Wednesday that I was hired to run a computer and push quotes out since I'm inside sales, not to go walk plants and do site visits with customers. Anyone hiring an engineer? I'm looking! Lol


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## Toby_Corgi (Mar 11, 2015)

Something else that engineers have to deal with that most people don't necessarily understand is that there are always legal, schedule, budget, and various other pressures on virtually every project. Unfortunately, these pressures compromise the engineering result all too often.


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## rainbowrunner (Dec 31, 2005)

The one I'm married to is a lot smarter than I am, and more level-headed.


As a 40 year Ops hack, I have had to "train" (or re-train) dozens of them. The good ones far outweigh the bad.


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## LandLocked (Apr 28, 2005)

Tell that young buck...donâ€™t make me whoop this out!!!


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## FishofFury (Jun 2, 2015)

As an engineer, we were required to to take I Know It All 101 before we graduate. Lol

I think there are a lot if engineer hating going on and being one and working with them, I can understand the frustration. Throughout my career, Iâ€™ve always made it a point to be polite and courteous to the non engineers that are well experiences and knowledgeable. Not all are the same. 

But it works both ways. A lot of people go into a meeting or jobsite with the thought of that dumb engineer out of school thinks he know everything im gonna show him or i aint gonna let him talk to me. And all goes off to a bad start, without giving the kid a chance. A bit like racial profiling. 

I dont do a lot of the engineering myself and we hire engineering contractors and yes agree some of things these young guys tell me im like *****? 

Ive noticed alot of egoes when i go out in the field and i think most new engineers just dont know how to handle it. Some are just afraid to look dumb. 

You old timers cut them boys some slack.


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## BullyARed (Jun 19, 2010)

If you think engineers are dumb and idiots, just go seat yourself in an engineering class and find out.


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## Toby_Corgi (Mar 11, 2015)

I've tried to teach the engineers who work for me that the best solutions are a combination of engineering rigor and practical experience gained from listening to those who have it. Seems to work pretty well as long as both sides are willing to listen and learn. Not every great engineering idea is practical nor does every great practical idea pass engineering scrutiny. It's a two way street.


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## Toby_Corgi (Mar 11, 2015)

BullyARed said:


> If you think engineers are dumb and idiots, just go seat yourself in an engineering class and find out.


Yup. There's a reason that most who start out as an engineering major don't end up with an engineering degree. And most who start out as an engineering major are at or near the top of their high school class. Yeah, it's rigorous all right. Not sure how I made it with so little sleep all those years.


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## TxAirhedz (Jul 23, 2017)

BullyARed said:


>


Agreed!!!


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## yellowmouth2 (Aug 16, 2005)

There are engineers and then there are Aggie engineers. We kid around the office that they must have a special class that is required that teaches them that they are always right. Don't even try to negotiate with them. LOL!


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## Category6 (Nov 21, 2007)

BullyARed said:


> If you think engineers are dumb and idiots, just go seat yourself in an engineering class and find out.


If youâ€™re an engineer youâ€™re smart, granted, doesnâ€™t mean youâ€™re smarter than anyone else in the room regardless of education.


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## BullyARed (Jun 19, 2010)

Category5 said:


> If youâ€™re an engineer youâ€™re smart, granted, doesnâ€™t mean youâ€™re smarter than anyone else in the room regardless of education.


Did I say they are smarter than anyone?


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## Category6 (Nov 21, 2007)

No sir, you didnâ€™t, you are correct sir!


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## LandLocked (Apr 28, 2005)

yellowmouth2 said:


> There are engineers and then there are Aggie engineers. We kid around the office that they must have a special class that is required that teaches them that they are always right. Don't even try to negotiate with them. LOL!


Show um this. Proof that babies are born pure only to be polluted by their parents. 

https://abc13.com/society/baby-spotted-throwing-up-texas-hook-em-horns-in-sonogram/4193796/


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## RedXCross (Aug 7, 2005)

I feel the love


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## Tburford87 (Apr 8, 2015)

I'm a civil PE, myself.

I do think some of these posts are funny - there is certainly truth in some. 

Every time i feel like I have a handle on my career, i find out just how much i don't know.


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## TA_Fab (Aug 20, 2016)

Field engineer here, I always end up fixing what the office guys draw up. I think itâ€™s purely a lack of field experience. Iâ€™ve been about 80% field and 20% office from day one. Learned more from guys without degrees than any teacher I had when I got my engineering degree. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Tburford87 (Apr 8, 2015)

TA_Fab said:


> Field engineer here, I always end up fixing what the office guys draw up. I think itâ€™s purely a lack of field experience. Iâ€™ve been about 80% field and 20% office from day one. *Learned more from guys without degrees than any teacher I had when I got my engineering degree. *
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes.


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## Swampmamma (Feb 14, 2007)

The guy down the road Is an engineer. Been waving at him for 5 years and he never waves back.


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

Toby_Corgi said:


> Something else that engineers have to deal with that most people don't necessarily understand is that there are always legal, schedule, budget, and various other pressures on virtually every project. Unfortunately, these pressures compromise the engineering result all too often.


. And sometimes, the engineers in question just ignore all those pesky annoyances entirely..

Thatâ€™s really like complaining that the rules just wonâ€™t let you play football like you want to... hereâ€™s a clue; everybody, in pretty much any industry, has to deal with rules. The point is to do the job within those constraints, not to just whine about being so constrained...


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## BretE (Jan 24, 2008)

dwilliams35 said:


> . And sometimes, the engineers in question just ignore all those pesky annoyances entirely..


Thatâ€™s the ones I liked to work with.....:biggrin:


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## Toby_Corgi (Mar 11, 2015)

dwilliams35 said:


> . And sometimes, the engineers in question just ignore all those pesky annoyances entirely..
> 
> Thatâ€™s really like complaining that the rules just wonâ€™t let you play football like you want to... hereâ€™s a clue; everybody, in pretty much any industry, has to deal with rules. The point is to do the job within those constraints, not to just whine about being so constrained...


Not whining. I've been at this a long time so I understand the rules. Just trying to explain why some engineering solutions aren't as elegant as they could have been given more time or budget, for example.


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## BullyARed (Jun 19, 2010)

In any profession or career, it doesn't matter if you have an engineering degree or not. Your success in your career, job and live depends on a single word: RESPECT.

Respect others and be respectable.

Whatever you do in your life and are happy and enjoy at what are you doing, that's the matter the most.

My wife just called me ******* engineer again this morning when I tried to fix our pool control valve with a rubber hammer and a screw driver! Just love it! 
=====


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## Whitebassfisher (May 4, 2007)

Toby_Corgi said:


> Something else that engineers have to deal with that most people don't necessarily understand is that there are always legal, schedule, budget, and various other pressures on virtually every project. Unfortunately, these pressures compromise the engineering result all too often.





dwilliams35 said:


> . And sometimes, the engineers in question just ignore all those pesky annoyances entirely..
> 
> Thatâ€™s really like complaining that the rules just wonâ€™t let you play football like you want to... hereâ€™s a clue; everybody, in pretty much any industry, has to deal with rules. The point is to do the job within those constraints, not to just whine about being so constrained...


I would like to think that most people on 2Cool DO understand that there are always legal, schedule, budget, and various other pressures on virtually every project.

However, that doesn't mean we like and agree with some constraints. Most here know that a lot of the maintenance on an operating unit in a plant must be done while the unit is down. This maintenance is called a turnaround, and turnarounds may be years apart for a particular unit. While down for turnaround, it is very common to find problems that weren't realized until the unit was shut down, safed up and entered. In my experience, most problems found after the unit was shut down are not repaired during the downtime, but are put on the schedule for the next T/A instead. Common sense may say fix it now, but usually that doesn't happen. Of course that depends on severity, but it always amazed me how we would start back up leaving seriously needed repairs un done.


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## texasred (Jan 29, 2005)

There's a very strong correlation between the guys complaining about engineers and their listed age on here. 

It takes a diverse team to make a successful project. Embrace it.


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## dwilliams35 (Oct 8, 2006)

Toby_Corgi said:


> Not whining. I've been at this a long time so I understand the rules. Just trying to explain why some engineering solutions aren't as elegant as they could have been given more time or budget, for example.


. Sometimes they donâ€™t need to be â€œelegantâ€....they just need to work, not violate codes or the laws of physics, and be capable of being completed without significantly affecting the countryâ€™s GNP.. â€œelegantâ€ is a goal of engineers: the rest of the world, not so much...


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## Gizzmo (Oct 24, 2015)

So I'm not an engineer, however I have worked and do work closely with them. I worked for a tier 1 automotive parts manufacture, who built parts for the 6 speed automatic transmission behind the then new 6.7 L diesel (6r140). So there was 25 revisions requested by Ford to correct a squawk on a 3-4 shift in this transmission. I studied the powerflow and suggested that they implement a damped harmonic oscillator to the e clutch (3-4 clutch) hub to absorb the harmonics of the shift event. This was a design flaw of th e transmission, not the frictions. I had to put together a PowerPoint outlining the idea and theory. Well, employer had engineers look at it, draw it up, and was implemented by Ford as an update.This fix came from a tech in the field (me), and I was told would not work, but it did. So, if you ever think that you have nothing to offer to engineers, or they won't listen, just press forward. And you too, can get screwed like me!


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## BullyARed (Jun 19, 2010)

^^^. and engineers vs management. In 1997 when I worked for a very well known #1 cell phone and two-way radio company, I presented Cell Phone with Camera to Think Tank Committee. They came back a week later and told management decided the idea has no business value and rejected it. Two years later Nokia rolled out cell phone with camera and they were sold like hot cakes for that Christmas. Nokia took over #1 spot after that.


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## monkeyman1 (Dec 30, 2007)

From experience, let the rhetorical train run off the tracks once. Then, and only then, will they want to hear how you would have done it...


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## fishingcacher (Mar 29, 2008)

The vast majority of stuff I was taught in engineering school was never used. The first course I used almost every day. I did use trigonometry once. Not sure what they teach now.


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## TXXpress (May 23, 2004)

Have you ever fished with an engineer? And did they make it back to the dock at the end of the day? (For some of you, please don't answer that last question).

I have an ex-BIL that has two masters degrees. One's in engineering. He'll tell you all about those degrees, even if you don't ask. The dude is smart and I will give him that, but he can't walk across a street without getting hit by a car.


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## Csafisher (Nov 16, 2010)

TXXpress said:


> Have you ever fished with an engineer? And did they make it back to the dock at the end of the day? (For some of you, please don't answer that last question).
> 
> I have an ex-BIL that has two masters degrees. One's in engineering. He'll tell you all about those degrees, even if you don't ask. The dude is smart and I will give him that, but he can't walk across a street without getting hit by a car.


In fairness, there are just as many physics, business, and liberal arts majors the exact same way..................................


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## SaltwaterSlick (Jun 11, 2012)

Mech. Eng's. build weapons
Chem Eng's. build projectiles
Elec. Eng's build aiming devices
Civil Eng's build targets

...sometimes it's fun being an engineer...


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## TOMBOB (Apr 9, 2012)

BretE said:


> Thatâ€™s the ones I liked to work with.....:biggrin:


 Me 2 :biggrin::biggrin:


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## HiggsBoson (Jul 25, 2014)

SaltwaterSlick said:


> Mech. Eng's. build weapons
> Chem Eng's. build projectiles
> Elec. Eng's build aiming devices
> Civil Eng's build targets
> ...


Don't forget the NAME's (Naval Architecture/Marine Engineer): We can get your weapon anywhere in the world


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## SaltwaterSlick (Jun 11, 2012)

HiggsBoson said:


> Don't forget the NAME's (Naval Architecture/Marine Engineer): We can get your weapon anywhere in the world


Funny you should mention that... I R marine En-ga-near... Last week, couldn't spell it, this week I R-1... USMMA 75...


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## Longhorn14 (Jun 20, 2016)

Not an engineer, but work with ME's and EE's daily. hell i'm partially responsible for creating one of the smartest SOB's in my company.(his words, not mine) when it comes down to it, in my opinion, experience coupled with education can make any anything. But i won't tolerate that "i'm smarter than you" attitude from anyone. if i get it, i usually just sit back and give them a shot. most i have worked with are down to earth folk that came up from working so i have been fortunate. enjoying the thread.


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## pipeliner345 (Mar 15, 2010)

Category5 said:


> Also it was more than just that, he questioned my knowledge of and plan for cleaning his heat exchangers, of which Iâ€™ve cleaned tens of thousands and I know heâ€™s cleaned exactly zero. Rant over, but if youâ€™re an engineer just know youâ€™re not necessarily an expert on everything.


Here's what i always tell them.

Your title does not give you the knowledge that you do not necessarily possess........

Then its deer in the headlights.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## TXBohunk (Aug 25, 2017)

I work with probably a dozen different "engineers" each year. Been in this industry for almost 20 years. I am not an engineer.

That being said, out of those dozen, I would consider 1-2 to be anything special. That equates to the same percentage of colleges whom I work with that are not "engineers". one out of ten of them are worth a ****.

I am in the power industry and I do control system work. I do see a disparity in the number of "engineers" who think their poop don't stink, compared to regular, "dumb" I&C techs who feel the same way.


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## Timemachine (Nov 25, 2008)

As an Engineer my biggest challenge is tolerating Snowflake Liberals.!


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## SaltwaterSlick (Jun 11, 2012)

Timemachine said:


> As an Engineer my biggest challenge is tolerating Snowflake Liberals.!


I generally don't even try...


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