# Let's talk about lines



## sharkchum (Feb 10, 2012)

One of the questions I get asked over and over is "What size and kind of line do I need for surf fishing?"

The quick easy answer would be 30# mono, but let me explain more.

Since braid came into the fishing world, it has revolutionized the fishing industry. With it's small diameter, superior strength, near zero stretch, and unmatched sensitivity, it has become the gold standard by which all other lines are measured. It doesn't matter if your throwing a slow sinking plug at a winter time trout on the sand flats, or making deep drops for tilefish offshore, braid seems like the greatest thing since sliced bread, but it's not.
The one down fall to braid is that is has no abrasion resistance. What that means is, when braid comes into contact with anything sharp, it breaks. That, in a nut shell, is the main reason braid is not the right choice for surf fishing.
Line in the surf takes a lot of abuse. From rubbing on sand bars and shells, debris in the water, and from the fish themselves. This is what makes mono the best choice for surf fishing. You can fray mono halfway into, and it will still maintain almost have it's strength.
Just last weekend I had a 8' long piece of 2" rope, cover with barnacles, get wrapped up in my line while fighting a shark. It shredded about 30' of my line, some places halfway through, but I was still able to land the shark. I would have never done that using braid. 

Now on to size. 
I'll start off by saying, you do not need heavy line to land big fish. I have caught some incredible fish over the years on light tackle, but most were from a boat, in open water. In this situation, you can simple follow the fish in the boat until it get's tired and you can bring it to leader. Not so in surf fishing. When your on land and the fish is in the water, it changes everything. The goal is to get the fish in, with out breaking off , on either the fish, the sand bars, or the debris in the water. To do this requires heaver line.
When I'm talking about surf fishing, I'm talking mostly about casting. Yes, I do run lines out on a kayak or jetski on occasion, but most of my fishing is by either casting from the beach or walking out into the water a short way and casting.
Most casting reels are going to be in the 20,30, or 40 size, for spinning reels 6000 to 8000 size. Reels of this size will hold 200yds to 300yds of 30# mono, and that's all you need for 90% of your surf fishing.
So, why 30# and not 20# or 15#, well, I'll tell you. Your going to be casting a leader with a 4oz to 10oz weight, plus the bait. This can weigh up to a pound or more. To cast this kind of weight requires a lot of power, and that power can snap smaller lines when you try to cast. Once your line is in the water you have to retrieve it , weather it has a fish or not. The surf sinker is going to sink into the sand, because that's what it's designed to do, and to pull it out of the sand requires a lot of force. This force will snap smaller lines. The most important reason for using at least 30# mono is for the abrasion resistance we already talked about.
Well, why not use 40#, or 60#, or 100#. That's easy, it simply doesn't cast as well and you would lose line capacity You have to have a balance between strength ,cast ability, and line capacity , and 30# mono fits the bill. Now there is nothing wrong with using bigger line on bigger reels, and you should. Here's what I run on my reels as an example.
Under 4/0 I use 30#
4/0 40#
6/0 50#
9/0 60#
12/0 80#
Now the biggest reel I can cast with any kind of distance is a 4/0 wide, and that is pushing it. Anything bigger than a 4/0 is for running baits out and not for casting.

Some people use a combination of braid and mono for a number of different reasons. On most of my casting reels I have between 150yds and 200yds of 65# braid backing, topped off with 30# mono, which may be 100 yds or more. I do this for two reasons. The main reason is, because the mono takes so much abuse in the surf, I have to change it out 6 or more times a year. It's cheaper and easier for me to just change out 100yds or so of mono rather than respooling the whole reel. The second reason is for extra line capacity. Most of the time you will never use more that the top 100yds of line off you reel. But there are times when you pick a fight with someone you probably should't have messed with . This happen to me a few weeks ago. I was fishing for slot reds with my Squall 25N. This is a small reel that holds around 200yds of 30# mono, but I had 150yds of 65# braid backing with 100yds or so of 30# mono. The reel started screaming with a 6' black tip on it. Just as I got it turned, it came out of the water sideways, in the mouth of a big bull shark. The bull headed offshore with my shark, and all I could do is watch the line peel off the reel. Just before I was spooled, the bull dropped my shark and I was able to land it. I don't think I could have done that without the extra line capacity.

I don't think the brand of line makes any difference, as long as it's good quality. For mono I use Sufix Superior, Berkly Big Game, and Ande, for braid I use Sufix, Fins, and Power Pro. If you have a favorite line, I'm sure it will work just as well. 

I hope I have cover the subject of lines for surf fishing, and if you have any questions please feel free to ask.


----------



## Nutnhoney (Jan 7, 2017)

These facts and figures above are on par with my years on the beach experiences. I fished Penn Jigmasters for years before switching to newer models and have gravitated to 40# for a general purpose line. I also use Big Game mono and generally Power Pro 100# for backing. The 100# is way over my drag ability but my old not so nimble fingers can tie it more easily. 
Some folks seem to spool on line that is way over the reels capabilities to use it. Fifty mono on a outfit designed to casting long will inhibit your distance in most cases. Not many sharks 6' or less going to spool or break 40# . I fish 50# on a 6/0 and 80# on the 9/0 but remember a 9/0 has a 50# drag. I up to 80# line because of the abrasion resistance as those baits tend to stay in the surf longer. 
My rule is, no braid on the sand, change mono often, and use fresh bait.
I'm switching to the leader design shark chum's toutorial shows. For years I used a 30' shock leader of 50#-80# to avoid shark tail abrasion. Seemed to work but cut seriously into casting distance. No more.
Look on you tube for some lessons on pendulum casting. You will improve your distance with a little practice.


----------



## eliris (Dec 4, 2016)

Thanks for the great tutorials on lines. While on the line topic, can you share what are your favorite knots of choice, both for line to line (braid to mono/fluoro) and for line to tackle?

In particular i have not had good luck with the blood knot or with the albright. The double uni knot seems to hold a lot better.

For tackle i use the (improved) clinch knot.

What has been your experience?

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


----------



## sharkchum (Feb 10, 2012)

eliris said:


> Thanks for the great tutorials on lines. While on the line topic, can you share what are your favorite knots of choice, both for line to line (braid to mono/fluoro) and for line to tackle?
> 
> In particular i have not had good luck with the blood knot or with the albright. The double uni knot seems to hold a lot better.
> 
> ...


I use the Crazy Alberto to connect the mono to braid, and a improved clinch knot for everything else.


----------



## TxBrewer (Jul 23, 2011)

Thanks again for another post full of good information.


----------



## txbbqman (Aug 29, 2008)

Good info. Thanks sharkchum


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## fish4food (Feb 11, 2011)

If all the information you put out could only be in a book! 

You're the MAN!


----------



## Poppycorn (Jul 4, 2017)

*connfused...*

Thanks so much for this information... I am new to saltwater and surf fishing, so just to clarify something...
I have 2 Penn Pursuit II 6000 rod & reels combos with 30# mono. Bought as starters from Academy. It was just suggested to me, again, at Academy, to redo the reels with half braid/half mono, to better handle the weight needed for casting in surf fishing. I assumed the mono would be spooled onto the reel first, then the braid last, and the braid is what the leader would be attached to. Does this sound right? From what Sharkchum says above, it seems that braid should generally not be used for surf due to breakage, but Sharkchum then says that some people DO use a braid/mono combo. I am just confused. Can someone explain this more clearly for a newbie? Thank you!!!


----------



## sharkchum (Feb 10, 2012)

Poppycorn said:


> Thanks so much for this information... I am new to saltwater and surf fishing, so just to clarify something...
> I have 2 Penn Pursuit II 6000 rod & reels combos with 30# mono. Bought as starters from Academy. It was just suggested to me, again, at Academy, to redo the reels with half braid/half mono, to better handle the weight needed for casting in surf fishing. I assumed the mono would be spooled onto the reel first, then the braid last, and the braid is what the leader would be attached to. Does this sound right? From what Sharkchum says above, it seems that braid should generally not be used for surf due to breakage, but Sharkchum then says that some people DO use a braid/mono combo. I am just confused. Can someone explain this more clearly for a newbie? Thank you!!!


The braid goes on the reel first, then the mono. You tie the mono to the leader. It's easier to just put mono on the reel and be done with it. I only use the braid/mono combo because I fish so much and I have so many reels to change line on. I would go broke by respooling all my reels 6 or more times a year. I keep the braid on year after year and just change out the 100yds or so of mono whenever I need to. If you only go a few times a year it is easier to just put new mono on the reel once a year.


----------



## Poppycorn (Jul 4, 2017)

sharkchum said:


> The braid goes on the reel first, then the mono. You tie the mono to the leader. It's easier to just put mono on the reel and be done with it. I only use the braid/mono combo because I fish so much and I have so many reels to change line on. I would go broke by respooling all my reels 6 or more times a year. I keep the braid on year after year and just change out the 100yds or so of mono whenever I need to. If you only go a few times a year it is easier to just put new mono on the reel once a year.


Ah, that makes sense! So I should leave my reels that are filled with 30# mono alone! And I have been reading the old postings and it sounds like you do just fine casting 5 1/2 oz and even bigger surf weights with the 30# mono. My Penn rods are 8' by the way, and I plan to be fishing from Galveston to Corpus Christi to PINS. I also will probably make weights and leaders as you have shown earlier. Starting out targeting slot reds, small shark, other fish to eat. 
Any other advice you can add for me, given what I am using?

and...THANK YOU for all your advice in this forum! It has been so helpful to me as a newcomer to saltwater!!!:smile:


----------



## sharkchum (Feb 10, 2012)

Poppycorn said:


> Ah, that makes sense! So I should leave my reels that are filled with 30# mono alone! And I have been reading the old postings and it sounds like you do just fine casting 5 1/2 oz and even bigger surf weights with the 30# mono. My Penn rods are 8' by the way, and I plan to be fishing from Galveston to Corpus Christi to PINS. I also will probably make weights and leaders as you have shown earlier. Starting out targeting slot reds, small shark, other fish to eat.
> Any other advice you can add for me, given what I am using?
> 
> and...THANK YOU for all your advice in this forum! It has been so helpful to me as a newcomer to saltwater!!!:smile:


 Lose the 8' rods and get some 12'. Here's the explanation.

http://2coolfishing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1654554


----------



## Poppycorn (Jul 4, 2017)

Great info about rods, I read the whole string. 

Ok.. so I'll get a heavy action, 12' rod, rated for at least 30# line. What spinning reel should I get, to go with that big rod? Probably just entry-level stuff for now... I'll look at Academy. A few years experience and I can upgrade to much better gear after I gain some know-how. Our kids can use the Penn combos we bought for pier fishing. 

We are excited to be learning this skill, and grateful to y'all for sharing your experience with us. We love beach camping and have wanted to try surf fishing for a long time.

Again, THANK YOU!!!


----------



## sharkchum (Feb 10, 2012)

Poppycorn said:


> Great info about rods, I read the whole string.
> 
> Ok.. so I'll get a heavy action, 12' rod, rated for at least 30# line. What spinning reel should I get, to go with that big rod? Probably just entry-level stuff for now... I'll look at Academy. A few years experience and I can upgrade to much better gear after I gain some know-how. Our kids can use the Penn combos we bought for pier fishing.
> 
> ...


Penn Battle, Penn Conflict, or Penn Clash in the 6000 size. I have several of each and they have served me well.


----------



## Poppycorn (Jul 4, 2017)

I will start shopping around for those today... Thanks so much and have a great weekend!


----------



## eliris (Dec 4, 2016)

I guess the Penn's spinfisher, slammer, and torque will do the job as well, but they are a bit pricier

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


----------



## fishingmagnet (May 26, 2013)

Hello Sharkchump,

You have done a great service for a lot of fisherman in here. Very great tips even for seasoned fisherman who have been fishing the wrong way all of these time. 

I have question regards to the drag setting. They are saying to set the drag to 1/3 the strength of the line. Which is reasonable. But what is the quickest way to set the drag without going through the rigging process where you have to put weight at the other end of the pole?


----------



## sharkchum (Feb 10, 2012)

fishingmagnet said:


> Hello Sharkchump,
> 
> You have done a great service for a lot of fisherman in here. Very great tips even for seasoned fisherman who have been fishing the wrong way all of these time.
> 
> I have question regards to the drag setting. They are saying to set the drag to 1/3 the strength of the line. Which is reasonable. But what is the quickest way to set the drag without going through the rigging process where you have to put weight at the other end of the pole?


The fish don't care what the drag setting are, and neither do I. I set my drag based on "feel". If I "feel" like the fish is taking to much line, I tighten the drag, If I "feel" that my line is about to snap because the drag is to tight then I will loosen it.
The main thing to keep in mind is as the line is peeling off the reel the spool gets smaller, as the spool gets smaller the amount of force required to pull line from the reel gets greater. So if you are fighting a big fish with the drag cranked down tight and it takes more than half the line off the spool, you should start backing off the drag to maintain the same amount of drag pressure you had when the spool was full.
This is just one more reason to use mono. The extra stretch of the mono gives you some forgiveness, just in case you over tighten the drag. 
It all has to do with physics, but I'm not getting into that because fishing isn't that complicated. Heres a sketch to show what I'm talking about.


----------



## gaftop (Feb 20, 2005)

sharkchum said:


> I use the Crazy Alberto to connect the mono to braid, and a improved clinch knot for everything else.


I have gone back to using the improved clinch knot and like it. I was wondering how many wraps you usually do around the main line for your knots?


----------



## sharkchum (Feb 10, 2012)

gaftop said:


> I have gone back to using the improved clinch knot and like it. I was wondering how many wraps you usually do around the main line for your knots?


 5 or 6, the important thing is remember to wet the line before you cinch the knot tight.


----------



## gaftop (Feb 20, 2005)

Thanks! Good tip on wetting the line.


----------



## fishingmagnet (May 26, 2013)

Sharkchum, 

From your sketch, if we set it at 20, then leave it there indefinitely. Of course, this would work for smaller fish, and for larger fish, it will tire them out quicker than 15. 

As for other topic, if you have both braid and mono, then for a large fish, you probably will get spool until the braid come out, then probably the risk for abrasion will be there for braid as well. But the chance for large fish is not as common, therefore, the risk is minimal. True statement?


----------



## fishingmagnet (May 26, 2013)

By the way, what is the line strength of your braid line?


----------



## sharkchum (Feb 10, 2012)

fishingmagnet said:


> Sharkchum,
> 
> From your sketch, if we set it at 20, then leave it there indefinitely. Of course, this would work for smaller fish, and for larger fish, it will tire them out quicker than 15.
> 
> As for other topic, if you have both braid and mono, then for a large fish, you probably will get spool until the braid come out, then probably the risk for abrasion will be there for braid as well. But the chance for large fish is not as common, therefore, the risk is minimal. True statement?


This isn't something where you set the drag on the reel and leave it. Once you cast the rod out and put it in the rod holder, you back the drag off. This is so when a fish hits it, it doesn't break the line, break your rod, or pull your rod and reel in the water. You want to back it off enough to be able to pull line off the reel with 2 fingers, but tight enough that the waves and current can't pull it off the reel. Once you have a fish on and you pull the rod out of the holder, you tighten the drag until it feels right. This is something I can't explain, but once you fight a few big fish you will understand how tight your drag needs to be.
If you have a big fish pull all the mono off and gets you down to the braid, make sure you keep the rod tip up to keep the braid from rubbing on the sandbars. There is always a chance to catch fish that are bigger than the ones you are targeting and there is always risks that fish will be lost. The best way to learn how to minimize losses is to actually spend time doing it.

On all my reels with 30# I use 65# braid.


----------



## johnsons1480 (Jun 24, 2016)

I know I'm resurrecting an old thread, but I read through both this thread and the Let's make leaders thread. My question is, do you use a shock leader, or do you go 30 lb mono directly to your leader when casting 5.5 to 8 oz weights?


----------



## sharkchum (Feb 10, 2012)

johnsons1480 said:


> I know I'm resurrecting an old thread, but I read through both this thread and the Let's make leaders thread. My question is, do you use a shock leader, or do you go 30 lb mono directly to your leader when casting 5.5 to 8 oz weights?


 I just tie straight to the 30# mono and it's never been a problem. I'm sure you could break the 30# if you had a super stiff rod and put a lot of power into the cast, but I'm to lazy to put that much effort into casting. I can cast as far as I need to with little effort, and save my strength for digging the cold beer out of the bottom of the ice chest.


----------



## Skavatar (May 24, 2004)

i back spool with braid, then about 50-60 yards of 50# Ande mono, then about 20' of 100# Ande for shock leader. casting with 4-5oz weight and 4-5oz bait. Using a pendulum type cast.

the general rule is 10# of mono per oz of lead.


----------



## jpdarby2 (Aug 17, 2016)

I don't use a shock tippet unless I'm using braid on a spinning setup. The knot between tippet and main line with mono on a casting setup can wreck your thumb and guides.


----------

