# Longe Range Project



## RJustice (May 28, 2008)

My GF's father and I are going to start shooting 400 yards to 600 yards and maybe up to 1000 yards this spring on the farm. I have a 700 VLS in a 308. I have a Jewell trigger and a Weaver V24 mounted on top. I am shooting 1.75" groups measured from outside to outside at 200 yards right now. All I have done to the rifle was take my time to break in the barrel and free float it. I just ordered a Bell & Carlson A5 stock yesterday. I guess I will now need a new base for my scope in order to shoot the distances I am planning. I could use suggestions on this part and what distance to set my zero. I will write a review on the stock after I am able to use it a few times. I am also shooting Sierra 168 MK bullets. might be switching back to 155 Palma though. Only time will tell.


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## THE JAMMER (Aug 1, 2005)

Sounds like fun to me. I'd be interested in your evaluation of the B/C stock. It is so much less expensive than the McMillan. I noticed one of the major custom 308 makers (can't remember who right now, but it was one of the big guys - $3500 for the gun and .5 moa guarantee) who uses the B/C stock.

You will probably, as you said, need a new base with some built in up MOA, otherwise you might run out with your scope- not sure how much your scope has.

Sounds like your gun is shooting pretty good right now. Hard to beat the 168 smk's, but I'm interested in the palma's as well. Gotta always have some new project to work on, you know.

Good luck and keep us posted,

THE JAMMER


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## Bigj (Jul 22, 2007)

I own 2 B&C stocks one ona 7MM stw just bought another for a 10-22 good stock for the money try shooters discount best prices i have found


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## Bigj (Jul 22, 2007)

you will problly have to go to a 20 moa scope base i did on 308 for shooting that far. You will run out of adjustment on your elevation on your scope


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## RJustice (May 28, 2008)

Hey Jammer. Les Baer Custom uses it on their Tactical Recon. I got the same stock they use on that rifle shipped to my door for $435. It should be here next week. I ordered it from stockysstocks.com. 

Bigj. I guess I will pick up a 20 moa base too. Thanksfor the suggestion.


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## THE JAMMER (Aug 1, 2005)

RJustice said:


> Hey Jammer. Les Baer Custom uses it on their Tactical Recon. I got the same stock they use on that rifle shipped to my door for $435. It should be here next week. I ordered it from stockysstocks.com.
> 
> Bigj. I guess I will pick up a 20 moa base too. Thanksfor the suggestion.


Yep that's the one. DAng if Les Brown uses it, it must be pretty good. He gets $3500 for that rifle and guarantees .5 moa. I had an earlier post about the B/C vs. the McMillan, and everyone raved about the Mcmillan. It's a bunch more money, so I'm anxious to hear how yours works out.

Keep us posted,

THE JAMMER


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## swglenn (Sep 20, 2009)

*Long Range*

The best mod to obtain better accuracy is to get a custom barrel and find a gunsmith that can chamber it for you. Since you are changing the barrel you can choose another caliber if you desire, just not a magnum since it won't fit the bolt head. There is no reason you have to stay with the .308, although it is a good caliber there are better for 1000 yds. You need to choose the bullets you want to use and make up a dummy round so the smith can spec out a reamer to give you what you want. Bullet choice will also set your barrel twist. You can get 20 MOA offset rings that will give you more scope elevation to reach 1000 yds. You will need about 25 MOA up from your 100 yd zero to be able to be on at 1000 yds. Bayou Rifle range in Houston will have a 1000 yd match this Sunday morning. There are usually some 308's shooting in the F/TR class. Good luck


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## RJustice (May 28, 2008)

*Barrel???*

I never said anything about changing my barrel or caliber. This rifle has been spot on right out of the box. I am just getting a new stock. As for the shooting this Sunday, thanks but I have family stuff to take care of. We are just going to shoot for fun on private property. No need to spend the money at a range. Thanks for the advise about the zero I will for sure be looking at that soon. My stock gets here on the 9th!


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## Wolf6151 (Jun 13, 2005)

When you get the stock I'd be interested in a review of it as well as it pertains to quality and fit to the gun. I'm not looking at that particular model but at the Medalist Sporters and am just wondering about the B&C quality and fit since they are so much cheaper in price that McMillan or HS Precision. Thanks.


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## swglenn (Sep 20, 2009)

*Barrel*

I understand about not wanting to change barrels. Once you start you want to get better but you reach a point where you are getting all you can out of your rig. You have changed the trigger, you have changed the stock, you have a good scope, what is left? The barrel is the next step to go from ~1 MOA, about where you are now, to 1/2 MOA or better.

On your scope setting going from 100 yds to 1000 yds, 25 MOA is 100 clicks using a 1/4" click scope. Converting to target or turret knobs on your scope helps a lot when you are going from one distance to another and are trying to count clicks. Most scopes can be converted to these turrets.

My suggestion on going to the Bayou Rifle match was so you could see what guys are doing with their rigs, what equipment they are shooting, etc. Good luck on your shooting. It can be addictive.


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## RJustice (May 28, 2008)

SWGlenn
Thanks for the good info. My scope has 1/8 adjustments and came with the turrets you can change by hand. I like them better than the target/tactical turrent because they are not big and bulky looking. And for the .5 MOA groups... I am only .342 away from that at 200. Maybe this stock will take care of that for me. Either way I like this gun and caliber a lot and when I shoot this barrel out and get a new one it will be in the .308 also.


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## CoastalOutfitters (Aug 20, 2004)

try Nosler 168gr custom competition as well, you want to load as hot as poss until the groups start to spread at 100 yds, would neck size brass only , trim every round , clean primer pockets every round , use mag primers.

soft seat a bullet and do the max bullet seat test with a marker to eliminate bullet slap.

your close range ...100yd........ needs to be inside 3/4" *and repeatable*.

buy 1 piece base mount like a leupold or one of the high end brands and locktite the screws in.


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## RJustice (May 28, 2008)

Thanks CO. I have always wondered about the seating depth. That is the one thing I have never messed with.I just use the coal in my book. I do neck size everything for this rifle. And it has always shot 3/4 at 100. even with cheap box stuff. I remember breaking in the barrel and an old man with his custom 6BR sitting next to me and he could not believe I got a rifle off the shelf that shot this good. I also have already got a one piece leupold base, but I was at a gun smith shop in the hill country and the guy in there told me that that was the weak part of my rifle. He says that a one piece weaver is a lot better. He showed me the amount of contact difference between the two and I think I am going to try that style. Anyway I like the info I am recieving with this thread...


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## Csafisher (Nov 16, 2010)

You might look into having your action trued. That would probably squeeze a little more accuarcy out of your rifle


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## RJustice (May 28, 2008)

I talked to the people at Hill Country Rifle about doing that and beding my rifle into the woodstockthat came with the rifle. They told me that the rifle already shoots tighter than their guarantee. He said to worry about that when I shoot out this barrel and have to get another one. I might be able to get my rifle ready to go Wednesday and be shooting it Saturday. I went out into the medow today and marked out a 400 yard range.


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## Lezz Go (Jun 27, 2006)

I have some *Hornady 168 grain A-max* bullets that you might try.


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## RJustice (May 28, 2008)

*Weather is not good so I am stuck inside*

SO the freeze cracked the block in my truck and I am waiting for my new engine to get here. The good news is the weather did not slow the UPS guy down one bit. I mounted my action to the new stock and it fit like a glove. I collored the contact points with a sharpie and will decide weather or not to bed the action after I shoot it and look at the wear pattern. I also ordered a Weaver GS tactical that should be here on Friday. It is a 3-10X Mil/Mil scope from Midway USA. I wanted something I can estimate range with and my scope does not have a reticle for that. Since it is too cold and windy to play with the new stock outside I took some pictures for you guys. Here they are.


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## swglenn (Sep 20, 2009)

Congratulations, a very nice looking gun. I like gun ****!


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## THE JAMMER (Aug 1, 2005)

That looks awesome, and is the color I am thinking about for my PSS. I was under the impression that bedding was not necessary. What's the deal??

Sorry about your truck. Bummer.

THE JAMMER


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## RJustice (May 28, 2008)

*Jammer*

My truck needed engine work and I was planning on putting a new engine in it this summer anyway. The rifle does not need bedding, but no two pieces of metal fit perfectly together so bedding could help if the fit is too imperfect. I shot the rifle Friday with a few loads I had and the best one was not too bad. I am, however, way out of practice. This rifle can for sure shoot better than I can right now. Here is a picture of the load it like best out of what I had with me I will play with this one a bit. This is 7 shots @ 100 yards. I shot one after another (10-15 seconds between shots) until I threw the 7th then let her cool off. The stock was very comfortable to shoot. It is very nice and the quality is outstanding. I do think that depending on your size, the stock with all the adjustments like mine is not a must have. If you could fit the other stock that is not adjustable you could save a few more dollars.


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## RJustice (May 28, 2008)

I found some targets I think I am going to order for our shooting. They are at www.multiplexsales.com I think they will work since we are only shooting .308's. They are very reasonable for the price. Everything else I have found costs a lot more.


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## Bigj (Jul 22, 2007)

Thats the same stock I have on my STW


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## SeaTex (Aug 27, 2009)

As far as Steel targets you may want to look here http://bobcatsteel.com/?page_id=236&category=1

10" target is $4.00 cheaper than Multiplex. I bought the 8" round that I'm shooting from 200 to 300 yards and it's held up very well.

Here's a video of a shot at 100 yds. http://www.youtube.com/user/#p/f/8/x7ENJ3i1HhA


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## RJustice (May 28, 2008)

SeaTex

Thanks for that. The target I was looking at was a 10" and a 4" and they were about the same either place. I guess I will just go with the best shipping price when I order them. I have an old swing set that I am going to hang the targets from with chains. I do like your set up. It looks good.


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## SeaTex (Aug 27, 2009)

Thanks,

It's light enough that I can move it to whatever yardage I want to shoot, though I will proably be picking up another target and build another one. 300 yards is about the max I can shoot on my property. I do enjoy hearing lead hit steel, I have some pistol targets I made as well. Good luck with your project.


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## Cool Hand (Mar 24, 2010)

I can send a round through a flea's arse at a 1000 meters with my Remington 700 police sniper in 308 5.5x20x56 Nightforce scope useing Federal Gold medal match grade 168 bhp.


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## State_Vet (Oct 10, 2006)

Cool Hand said:


> I can send a round through a flea's arse at a 1000 meters with my Remington 700 police sniper in 308 5.5x20x56 Nightforce scope useing Federal Gold medal match grade 168 bhp.


You must have big fleas around your area:wink::biggrin:


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## THE JAMMER (Aug 1, 2005)

State_Vet said:


> You must have big fleas around your area:wink::biggrin:


My thoughts exactly. If that gun is a .1" MOA gun, which I doubt that it is- the best I have gotten out of my PSS is about .28"- that would mean that flea's arse would be 1" wide at 1000 yards.

I'm sure it was just spoofing bragacodia- kinda like, "I can eat 50 eggs." But in that case, old Cool hand actually could.

THE JAMMER


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## Cool Hand (Mar 24, 2010)

THE JAMMER said:


> My thoughts exactly. If that gun is a .1" MOA gun, which I doubt that it is- the best I have gotten out of my PSS is about .28"- that would mean that flea's arse would be 1" wide at 1000 yards.
> 
> I'm sure it was just spoofing bragacodia- kinda like, "I can eat 50 eggs." But in that case, old Cool hand actually could.
> 
> THE JAMMER


LOL! The weapon does shoot really good though out of the box with that ammo.I'M A WORLD SHAKER!

no fleas were harmed in making this post...:biggrin:

Cool Hand.....

you know,we can see your name in your avatar....lol don't have to type it after every post...lol

i'll shut up now...


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## RJustice (May 28, 2008)

I did not realize that so many people on this board shoot 1000 yards. I have just started looking into the activity and it seems that everyone has a rifle that will shoot better than the last guys post. Nobody ever post about how many time they miss or have a bad day. I understand the fact that you can get a group very small at 100 maybe even at 200. But I want to see a clarification picture when someone says "I have got mine to shoot .28". Also I would like to see a picture of a group at 1000 from that same .28 rifle to see what the group does at that range. I have only seen one picture of a group at 500 yards and it was about 2 inches and only 2 shots too. Kinda sounds like a lot of my dad is better than your dad stuff to me...


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## THE JAMMER (Aug 1, 2005)

Cool Hand said:


> LOL! The weapon does shoot really good though out of the box with that ammo.I'M A WORLD SHAKER!
> 
> no fleas were harmed in making this post...:biggrin:
> 
> ...


Cool hand,

I am still chuckling. You're right about those PSS's. Why anyone would spend $3500 on one of those Les Baer's or some of the other ones, is beyond me. God's way of telling you you're making too much money I guess.

How do you like that scope???

I know about the handle in the avatar I just sometimes like to add something into my sign off like:

THE "REALLY LIKED YOUR RESPONSE" JAMMER


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## THE JAMMER (Aug 1, 2005)

RJustice said:


> I did not realize that so many people on this board shoot 1000 yards. I have just started looking into the activity and it seems that everyone has a rifle that will shoot better than the last guys post. Nobody ever post about how many time they miss or have a bad day. I understand the fact that you can get a group very small at 100 maybe even at 200. But I want to see a clarification picture when someone says "I have got mine to shoot .28". Also I would like to see a picture of a group at 1000 from that same .28 rifle to see what the group does at that range. I have only seen one picture of a group at 500 yards and it was about 2 inches and only 2 shots too. Kinda sounds like a lot of my dad is better than your dad stuff to me...


Fair question about what the 100 yard load does at 1000 yards.

Also I said "the best I've ever gotten out of my PSS is .28". I didn't say it was a .28 MOA gun. Some days the magic works, and some days it doesn't. It is, however, a .5 MOA gun consistently.

That measurement would be center to center, which is difficult/impossible to measure- so it would be left side of hole to left side of hole, or right side of hole to right side of hole.

I want to do some of that very long distance stuff, and am following this thread closely.


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## RJustice (May 28, 2008)

I do plan on taking plenty of pictures and posting them here. My truck should be out of the shop on Monday so when that happens this project will hit high gear. This weekend is hog and dog killing on the farm. There won't be any shots over 200 yards if that far.


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## Cool Hand (Mar 24, 2010)

RJustice said:


> I did not realize that so many people on this board shoot 1000 yards. I have just started looking into the activity and it seems that everyone has a rifle that will shoot better than the last guys post. Nobody ever post about how many time they miss or have a bad day. I understand the fact that you can get a group very small at 100 maybe even at 200. But I want to see a clarification picture when someone says "I have got mine to shoot .28". Also I would like to see a picture of a group at 1000 from that same .28 rifle to see what the group does at that range. I have only seen one picture of a group at 500 yards and it was about 2 inches and only 2 shots too. Kinda sounds like a lot of my dad is better than your dad stuff to me...


My weapon runs shallower than yours ....jk....i missed before.....ONCE :walkingsm.
My dad is a Ninja...double throw down Ninja at that.


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## Cool Hand (Mar 24, 2010)

THE JAMMER said:


> Cool hand,
> 
> I am still chuckling. You're right about those PSS's. Why anyone would spend $3500 on one of those Les Baer's or some of the other ones, is beyond me. God's way of telling you you're making too much money I guess.
> 
> ...


Love the scope,i have two of them and both are great i also have two of the Springfield Armory 3rd Gen's in 6x20x56 and 4.5x14x56 ,but the Nightforce are better.I have ONE Schmidt and Bender scope it is out of this world,but way too pricey..it's on my Remington pss 223 and the other Nightforce is on my Remington pss 6.8 very nice I love those Remington PSS'S they are great out of the box.


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## State_Vet (Oct 10, 2006)

RJustice said:


> I did not realize that so many people on this board shoot 1000 yards. I have just started looking into the activity and it seems that everyone has a rifle that will shoot better than the last guys post. Nobody ever post about how many time they miss or have a bad day. I understand the fact that you can get a group very small at 100 maybe even at 200. But I want to see a clarification picture when someone says "I have got mine to shoot .28". Also I would like to see a picture of a group at 1000 from that same .28 rifle to see what the group does at that range. I have only seen one picture of a group at 500 yards and it was about 2 inches and only 2 shots too. Kinda sounds like a lot of my dad is better than your dad stuff to me...


1,000 yards huh, I usually drive from Austin and set my targets up in New Mexico:wink::biggrin:

The "No Hand"


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## bigfishtx (Jul 17, 2007)

I would look at Optics Planet and see what kind of Picatinny rail bases they offer. I think Badger Ordinance makes one with a 20 deg offset. Or, try Nightforces one piece base ring set which you can get in 20 deg or 40 deg. The Nightforce is around 185 I think. If you go Badger Ord the base is over $100 and you still need a set of quality rings. EGW also makes a nice base for a little less but they are a notch down in quality IMO. 
Whatever you do, get rid of the dovetail bases and rings. They are ****.


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## RJustice (May 28, 2008)

*TARGET*

Picked this up at Academy today (I love that store). It was on sale for $19. I put a CD next to it so you can see how small it is. I thought it was going to be larger when I looked at the package, but smaller targets are more fun anyway. It looks like it is 3/8" thick and says it is rated for 9mm to 30-06. safety warning says no FMJ and to be 100 yards away when shooting with a rifle. If I have time I will make a bet with the GF's dad on who can hit it first from 400 yards.


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## Bantam1 (Jun 26, 2007)

The furthest I have shot is 1020 yards with my Rem 700 in .308. I am not a pro, and I have learned everything on my own by trial and error. My rifle is a solid .5 MOA gun. Yes I have shot tighter groups, but it seems to average around .5. Some days are better than others depending on my abilities. 

I would suggest loading either the 155 Palma or Lapua Scenars, or look at the Sierra 175. The 168 will get there, but you need to push the velocity a little over 2700fps, or shoot at a higher elevation, say 3000'+. They are great for shots out to 800-850. The bullet can go subsonic around 900-1000 if they are going any slower. 

For example with a 168 Sierra at 2700 fps my gun required 39 MOA of elevation at 1020. With the 168 AMAX it needed 38 MOA with almost the exact same velocity (so much for their claims of less drift and drop). The 155's are going about 2850 right now and I think they were around 32-34 MOA up. 175's were about the same as the 168, but without the fear of the round going subsonic at that distance. I am using a 20 MOA Badger base with Leupold Mark 4 glass. I don't have my log book here at work so I can't give you exact numbers from where I am shooting. We have much less humidity here in CA too. That will affect the drop even more. 

Best group at this distance was with my Sierra 175's. 10 shots 8" @ 1020. This was off the bipod using a rear bag shooting prone in the high desert. I had 3 misses and a few sighters to get on target. Make sure you have a good spotter  Have fun because it is rewarding making hits at over 1/2 mile away.


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## RJustice (May 28, 2008)

*Little bit of Shooting*

I went out and shot a little with my Girlfriend this afternoon. She shot @ 150 yards and this was only her 2nd time to ever fire a rifle. She hit every clay target she shot at and hit the metal target once in the middle and once on the suport leg (OOPS). I have a picture of her hit on the target. I turned the target around so I had a clean side to shoot. After she had her fill of shooting we moved back to 300 yards (which I estimated with my new weaver mildot scope). I plugged in my information into her iphone (she downloaded a balistic app for me). I shot at paper and the thing was 2 inches low and 1.5 inches right. I made adjustments and hit dead on once. I then moved to shoot the metal target and landed a hit. We then moved to 400 yards and I went to make the adjustments on my scope (this is my old scope that does not have a 20 MOA base) and ran out of clicks. When I ran out of clicks it caused me to loose count of how many clicks I made so I guessed at it and moved back to 300 yards. I went for the metal target and missed twice. Just a tiny bit high both times. So I shot at the paper target again and found that I estimated a bit off and was shooting 2 inches high at 300. I made the propper adjustments and shot the target dead on then shot the metal target two more times and called it a day. Here are some pictures of the event.


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## RJustice (May 28, 2008)

A picture of me shoot from 300.


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## THE JAMMER (Aug 1, 2005)

RJustice said:


> A picture of me shoot from 300.


R,

That new stock looks really bad a_ _. Looks like you have your bipod mounted farther back than usual. Is there a reason for that??

THE JAMMER


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## RJustice (May 28, 2008)

I was playing around with it when I put it together. I wanted to be able for me to lay in the bed of my truck and still have room for everything. And when it is folded up it does not stick out past the stock. I was just messing around that is all.


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## THE JAMMER (Aug 1, 2005)

Gotcha.


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