# BURGLERY - and chase, almost had them w/pics



## Muddskipper (Dec 29, 2004)

Was mowing my lawn this morning around 9 and noticed a slow moving vechicle come around the corner from my drive way (corner house). Did not think much of it until I put up the mower and noticed my compressor, edger, and weed eater gone.

DANG - they were just in here.

HPD was at the house within 20min, perhaps faster.

I am bummed as I'm the neighboor that watches out for everyone else....

Give the report... basicly there are alot of older white ford f250's with *older white guys* driving in Houston.

So after about an hour I decide to drive around to see if any pawn shops are open.

After 30 min I decided to give up and drive by my last pawn shop....

AND THERE THEY ARE WITH MY STUFF !!!!


It looks like they are about to leave, and I block them in.

Tell the pawn shop to call PD. Now it's two guys, the white older guy jumps in and start to pivot to get out of the block in ....

I reach in to snap some pics of them with my camera phone...

I go to the bed and grab my edger, and he backs up like to hit me.

I discharge a round at his rear tire to STOP him..... but they get out of the parking lot.

I give chase and am on the phone with HPD trying to get a location....

After a mile or two I come to my since'es and slow down and go back to the pawn shop and wait for HPD. Hoping the have a unit that can locate them since they have a flat tire....

Not likley thou... 

BUT I have all the good people from 2cool to be on the look out for these guys...

Pics below
*The ford f250 has a bashed in windshield on the pasenger side...AND he has a RED aux Tank up against the cab, like you see on farm and oil field trucks.*

white Male late 50's - 60's
Black male in his 50's
See pics

*If you know or see them, please PM me*

3 biggest mistakes
not getting a license plate
not calling PD right when I saw them, for the 2nd time
firing my weapon, as I might have issues for doing that -regardless if they were about to back over me. up to DA

NOTE: HPD officer was very nice, but gave me a talking to .... and she should have...please do not make this a thread about anything other than maybe learning from my mistakes or seeing these guys.

PIC 1 of the driver, and they guy loading my stuff back in the truck
PIc 2 of the driver


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## 2slick (Dec 5, 2008)

Just curious....was the pawn shop taking the stuff with out proper ID from the guys?


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## Won Hunglo (Apr 24, 2007)

I bet a local business got the LP on video. What about the pawn shop? What ID did they use in the past or this transaction? Forwarding these pics with a story to the local media will get these guys nailed in hours.


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## Muddskipper (Dec 29, 2004)

All this took place in Houston near the NW side...

The pawn shop was located on Long Point west of Antoine ...

the theft occured in Oak Forest a few miles away


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## Muddskipper (Dec 29, 2004)

Pawn shop just opened and they were unloading the stuff to take in ...at 11am today

No Cameras out side the building...I asked

I dought the local press would care for something so petty


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## Spirit (Nov 19, 2008)

Does the pawn shop possibly have a surveilence cam that got a plate number? What area do you live in?

Never mind .... when I first saw this there were no other posts by the time I replied all my questions had been answered.


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## texacajun (May 2, 2005)

wow.....what a loser...hope you catchem. What part of town? I hope you don't get burned on the discharging a round but it does seem like it should fall into the self defense category since his truck could've killed you as well. But congrats on utilizing your CHL for its intended purpose. I'll keep my eyes peeled.

Mike


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## Tate (Aug 25, 2005)

I have heard too many of these stories. I close my garage when I am mowing in the back now. 


Sent from Tapatalk


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## bill (May 21, 2004)

I never heard of a pawn shop without cameras inside


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## coup de grace (Aug 7, 2010)

*Hope they catch those rats, if anything you got to watch those cowards run run run,.*


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## texacajun (May 2, 2005)

spirit said:


> ....Never mind .... when I first saw this there were no other posts by the time I replied all my questions had been answered.


Ditto.


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## Pasadena1944 (Mar 20, 2010)

My question is, as close as he was backed up to that post is, HOW did he get out if you had him blocked in?


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## V-Bottom (Jun 16, 2007)

Good scratch mark /cut.. on the veh. door/ window area...the TV ch.'s may run pics for ya.. someone may be able to enhance the pics too..CSI.........bashed w/s too...wow


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## ralph7 (Apr 28, 2009)

i live very close to you.
if i see that truck, i will get the plate numbers.


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## tbone2374 (Feb 27, 2010)

Good luck... it's an ever day occurance, in that area of town...


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## Profish00 (May 21, 2004)

What did they pawn it for 30 bucks? Kinda bold to enter a garage for that kinda cash.


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## Muddskipper (Dec 29, 2004)

Pasadena1944 said:


> My question is, as close as he was backed up to that post is, HOW did he get out if you had him blocked in?


PD had the same question - they were just beyond the last pole... so he backed up further on the sidewalk....


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## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

good chance truck is stolen from a Jobsite somewhere. They know they have three days before the hands get back to work on tuesday to drive around and steal **** with the truck. 

Should have put a few rounds into his radiator, and his chest.


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## Muddskipper (Dec 29, 2004)

Jolly Roger said:


> Should have put a few rounds into his radiator, and his chest.


Thought crossed my mind, but was a life worth it, and could I live with it, are the to biggest questions...

In reality it was not much value .... plus, with lawyers, and all the rest of the drama that would have gone along with it, I believe the cost of the stuff would not of out weighed the time and other money I would have to put in additionally

I just wanted my stuff back


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## txstoke (Aug 16, 2008)

I'm one of your neighbors. We've had a couple of burglaries around here lately. I'm out on these streets at 4 am every morning jogging before work through our neighborhood and have seen too many suspicious characters around here lately at such an odd time in the morning that I now jog with a gun in my hand. Just the other day as I was finishing my jog a african crackhead was creeping through the neighborhood in an old pick up truck and stopping at every other house and I tried to stop him and sarcastically yelled to him that he must be the new citizen on patrol and he sped off. Then the other morning I was jogging by candelight park at 4 am and there were a couple of hood rat punks walking throudh our neighborhood and they were up to no good cause they didn't even look my way when I said "Good morning to yall, yall must be new neighbors" So I see whats happening around these here parts. I got your back bud.


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## agonzales1981 (Jun 12, 2008)

txstoke said:


> I'm one of your neighbors. We've had a couple of burglaries around here lately. I'm out on these streets at 4 am every morning jogging before work through our neighborhood and have seen too many suspicious characters around here lately at such an odd time in the morning that I now jog with a gun in my hand. Just the other day as I was finishing my jog a african crackhead was creeping through the neighborhood in an old pick up truck and stopping at every other house and I tried to stop him and sarcastically yelled to him that he must be the new citizen on patrol and he sped off. Then the other morning I was jogging by candelight park at 4 am and there were a couple of hood rat punks walking throudh our neighborhood and they were up to no good cause they didn't even look my way when I said "Good morning to yall, yall must be new neighbors" So I see whats happening around these here parts. I got your back bud.


new citizen on patrol, classic hahah


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## fwoodwader (Jul 18, 2008)

Should have put three in the back window of the cab, would be pretty easy for the cops to be on the lookout of a F250 with a shot out back window. They tried to run you over with a truck, if I was you I would have been aiming for the drivers seat but that is just me.


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## Muddskipper (Dec 29, 2004)

I know it's easy to say shoot them in the vechicle, but I don't think that was the right thing to do, as there was other stores around and the bullets could have gone anywhere... like across the street, where there were people

Can you imagine if someone across the street would have been hit with cross fire?

I would have a hard time knowing i did that over some edgers and a compressor


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## bigmike (Jan 8, 2006)

Wow. I'm one of your neighbors also. I'll be keeping an eye out for these guys.


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## fwoodwader (Jul 18, 2008)

Muddskipper said:


> I know it's easy to say shoot them in the vechicle, but I don't think that was the right thing to do, as there was other stores around and the bullets could have gone anywhere... like across the street, where there were people
> 
> Can you imagine if someone across the street would have been hit with cross fire?
> 
> I would have a hard time knowing i did that over some edgers and a compressor


I understand that there where people and objects down range, how close were you when discharged your weapon, a truck at 15 ft for example presents a pretty big target to put lead on or into.


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## MikeV (Jun 5, 2006)

bill said:


> I never heard of a pawn shop without cameras inside


They probably have them, but don't want to lose a supplier.


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## txstoke (Aug 16, 2008)

fwoodwader said:


> I understand that there where people and objects down range, how close were you when discharged your weapon, a truck at 15 ft for example presents a pretty big target to put lead on or into.


you armchair vigilante you, look at ya


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## Navi (Jun 2, 2009)

Mudd my parents are in that area, I'll pass the pictures to them so if nothing else they can keep an eye out, hope they find em.

I'd pass it on to the media as well, worth a try I they say no you can always make a craigslist post asking for help ID'ing


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## capt. david (Dec 29, 2004)

first off shooting at his tire? why even carry the weapon and pull it! should be used as a last resort, life and death situation. glad you got some of your stuff back!


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## capt. david (Dec 29, 2004)

let me say if he used his truck to cause bodily harm to you, then you should have plasterd his brains all over the dashboard


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## txstoke (Aug 16, 2008)

capt. david said:


> let me say if he used his truck to cause bodily harm to you, then you should have plasterd his brains all over the dashboard


Oooooh yeah, another mr badass armchair vigilante.

have you ever been in a similar situation before?


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## roundman (May 21, 2004)

maybe get a tv station to pick it up and post pictures on the news then you gots lots of eyes on them someone will remember that mark on the truck


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## capt. david (Dec 29, 2004)

tx sure have a little different situation. held a gun to the suspects face until hpd arrived. hpd asked if i did the right thing, and i said no i should have killed him! so tx before you spout off your mouth again, i will never pull my weapon without the intent to pull the trigger and kill someone!!!


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## jamisjockey (Jul 30, 2009)

fwoodwader said:


> Should have put three in the back window of the cab, would be pretty easy for the cops to be on the lookout of a F250 with a shot out back window. They tried to run you over with a truck, if I was you I would have been aiming for the drivers seat but that is just me.


Yep, it would have been awesome for those rounds to continue traveling through the truck and hit a bystander. 
Warning shots are for TV. 
Suppressive fire is for the Marines.
*If* you have justification, you do your damndest to put your shots on target, and nowhere else.

Rule #4 anyone?


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## El Capitan de No Fish (Sep 20, 2007)

You did the right thing. It's easy for others to tell you that you should have put a bullet in one or both of them. That would have been excessive unless you really were in fear of your life. You used enough force to scare the **** out them, but not too much.


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## txstoke (Aug 16, 2008)

capt. david said:


> tx sure have a little different situation. held a gun to the suspects face until hpd arrived. hpd asked if i did the right thing, and i said no i should have killed him! so tx before you spout off your mouth again, i will never pull my weapon without the intent to pull the trigger and kill someone!!!


as an individual in your circumstance you did the right thing. thats why we call them circumstances cause they are never exactly the same. when shooting at a tire you shoot toward the ground and at said tire, it's pretty much hit the tire or hit the ground. aim for the persons head through the windshield then there is the possibility that you miss and it goes through the pawn shop or toward the intersection and an innocent bystander is struck over so **** garage items. The real irony here is you have time to think things through and are not really thinking things through and mudskipper did not have time to thinks through and yet did think things through.


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## capt. david (Dec 29, 2004)

shooting at the tire, round hits concrete, round ricochets and can still hit innocent bystander.


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## Bluewaterbound (Aug 3, 2006)

I myself think that story is worth calling the local news station for. Lord knows I see allot of lesser news worthy stories on every night.

Especially since you have photo's and all. If nothing else it will raise local awareness in your area.

I'm betting with those photo's and a crime stopper reward, they could be caught rather quickly.

All and all, just be glad your still alive to tell the story. It could have went south very easily .

I have been stolen from on more than one occasion, and the burn never goes away. However, at the end of the day, possessions can be replaced, your life cannot. Plain and simple.

Terrible times upon us folks......


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## Muddskipper (Dec 29, 2004)

capt. david said:


> shooting at the tire, round hits concrete, round ricochets and can still hit innocent bystander.


agreed!

but your suggestion of I shoot into the cab ... ??? & "plasterd his brains all over the dashboard "

BTW
I was right behind the truck trying to get my stuff and was shot down at his tire only a few feet away, in defence, trying to not get backed over .... right decision? ...looking back on it, NO ..... but he did put the truck in drive and moved forward ....

Please take it easy on each other ... I knew posting this we would get varied opinions..... and it's easier to type it now, than be there while it's happening

Just please be on the look out for the truck, with the AUX tank and busted windshield


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## JOHNNY QUEST (Mar 6, 2006)

Without proof and serial#s of your belongings you did the best that could be done... you pop a cap off in someone in front of a pawnshop just because you say its yours and your in jail for murder... Even if you have the proof its yours your going thru hail till its proven....


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## ralph7 (Apr 28, 2009)

JOHNNY QUEST said:


> Without proof and serial#s of your belongings you did the best that could be done... you pop a cap off in someone in front of a pawnshop just because you say its yours and your in jail for murder... Even if you have the proof its yours your going thru hail till its proven....


not to mention the cost of legal representation to boot.

my previous chl instructor told us that an average cost for a lawyer in a justified shooting was around 15k.
and that is if you were found innocent of charges.


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## fwoodwader (Jul 18, 2008)

jamisjockey said:


> Yep, it would have been awesome for those rounds to continue traveling through the truck and hit a bystander.
> Warning shots are for TV.
> Suppressive fire is for the Marines.
> *If* you have justification, you do your damndest to put your shots on target, and nowhere else.
> ...


My first rule and the first rule taught to me is that they only reason you should ever draw down on someone is if you are fully committed and prepared to kill that person. You don't pull a gun out to scare someone you have to be fully committed to using that weapon, you pull it out and use to end their life. And the circumstances have to warrant that.

IMO the primary function of a pistol is to protect ones life from being taken by another is close proximity and that firearm is only as good at the person using it.


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## fwoodwader (Jul 18, 2008)

txstoke said:


> you armchair vigilante you, look at ya


LOL, how long did it take you to come up with that one.

Sorry tough guy but if someone is trying to run me over in a truck I'm going to do everything in my power to stop him and if taking his life is the last option it is an option I'm willing to exercise.


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## DMC (Apr 2, 2006)

You're lucky you didn't get a speeding ticket. Funny that perps seem to almost always get away but you go 5 over and you're toast.


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## monster (Apr 11, 2008)

I'm sure many of us would sleep just fine knowing that these POSs got removed from society, but it would have been the beginning of a long an potentially painful journey for the OP. These days, the law and the government love to back the bad guys. Who knows what would have happened to the OP, but it probably wouldn't be worth it for some power tools. I'm glad you were able to almost catch these guys, and hopefully they'll be in jail soon, but I'm glad you didn't get yourself in trouble. Good luc!


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## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

> I go to the bed and grab my edger, and he backs up like to hit me.


ignoring guns and your stuff.. why didn't you just jump out of your truck, run up and reach through that driver side window, knock the glasses off with a wrench and grab the mf'r by the hair, open his door, drag his butt out on the ground and pound him a new look? or spear that black dude in the back slamming his rear to the ground and then commence to pound his face into the sidewalk? one of them would have been staying until PD arrived.


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## dc1502 (May 25, 2006)

fwoodwader said:


> My first rule and the first rule taught to me is that they only reason you should ever draw down on someone is if you are fully committed and prepared to kill that person. You don't pull a gun out to scare someone you have to be fully committed to using that weapon, you pull it out and use to end their life. And the circumstances have to warrant that.
> 
> IMO the primary function of a pistol is to protect ones life from being taken by another is close proximity and that firearm is only as good at the person using it.


 Pulling that weapon and discharging it into an attacker until they stop attacking is understandable. By stating that" if you are attacked and you draw your gun you will kill the attacker." is just asking for trouble when or if you find yourself in that situation. Looks alot better on you when you can say"officer he attacked me I drew my weapon and fired x number of rounds into his chest and skull until he stopped. VS "officer he attacked me and I drew my weapon and fired X number of rounds to kill him". The killing of the attacker is just a by product of you protecting yourself not the goal......................A predisposed disposition to "kill" when attacked is reason enough for an indictment.


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## WestEndAngler (Jan 30, 2007)

You pull and discharge your weapon not to Kill but to STOP the threat.


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## Won Hunglo (Apr 24, 2007)

WestEndAngler said:


> You pull and discharge your weapon not to Kill but to STOP the threat.


And don't stop firing until you are no longer in fear of your life. Keep the story one sided.


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## Ethan Hunt (Dec 7, 2007)

wow, there sure are a bunch of "should of", "would of", "why didnt ya..."etc...
monday qb's?


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## TheAnt (Jul 1, 2008)

*A bit of zoom and some autocorrect on pics*

A pro could do far better I am sure
If you have a wheel mouse you can hold Ctrl and scroll in. 
If not you can hold Ctrl and hit + or - to zoom.

I did this with Paint.net 
http://www.getpaint.net

The dent and scratch patterns should be as good as a tatoo I guess anyways...


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## TheAnt (Jul 1, 2008)

hmmm, don't know that I did any good in retrospect other than point out some dents and scratches. 

Looks like he has gold rim glasses in your second pic but not in the first to me.


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## Brassnadz (Jun 18, 2007)

Cant really say what I would have done, as I wasnt in your shoes. I can only say that had I been in fear for my life, and I had not put myself in the situation (blocking them in), then yes, I would have resorted to my .45. I say that because there are overzealous prosecutors out there that will say that had you not confronted them after the fact (burglary of a habitation - they were at a pawn shop, not your home), you would not be in the position to resort to deadly force. Hopefully you understand what I am trying to convey. In other words, they will want to know why you didnt just park your truck and contact the police, which IMO would have been the reasonable thing to do.


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## KneeDeep&Sink'N (Jun 12, 2004)

This isn't their first rodeo. You can bet they have been to at least a couple of the pawn shops in the area to pawn stuff before. Go have several copies of these photos made and take them to the shops in the area and see if anyone recognizes them or remembers them being in their store. Maybe they pawned something there on another day and can pull the pawn slips. HPD has a pawnshop detail and I would see that they get a copy of the photos also. Good Luck! - Craig


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## Tate (Aug 25, 2005)

I've probably watched to much CSI, but why not pull some fingerprints from the edger. Couple some prints with the pictures and there is some strong evidence. I'm sure at least one of these guys prints are on record.


Sent from Tapatalk


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## troutomatic1488 (Jun 18, 2006)

WestEndAngler said:


> You pull and discharge your weapon not to Kill but to STOP the threat.


Stop the threat is the politicaly correct way to say killed the sob


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## awesum (May 31, 2006)

InfamousJ said:


> ignoring guns and your stuff.. why didn't you just jump out of your truck, run up and reach through that driver side window, knock the glasses off with a wrench and grab the mf'r by the hair, open his door, drag his butt out on the ground and pound him a new look? or spear that black dude in the back slamming his rear to the ground and then commence to pound his face into the sidewalk? one of them would have been staying until PD arrived.


Brian isn't a violent person.

Um ... that is until he gets on the wrong end of a 100 pound Yellowfin Tuna.


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## El Capitan de No Fish (Sep 20, 2007)

Tate said:


> I've probably watched to much CSI, but why not pull some fingerprints from the edger. Couple some prints with the pictures and there is some strong evidence. I'm sure at least one of these guys prints are on record.
> 
> Sent from Tapatalk


Normally the police wouldn't waste their time or money to lift prints for stolen lawn equipment. However since the situation escalated to what it did, maybe they would.


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## WestEndAngler (Jan 30, 2007)

TROUTOMATIC said:


> Stop the threat is the politicaly correct way to say killed the sob


You don't have to kill to stop a threat! Now if he bleeds out waiting on an ambulance so be it. When you call 911 that conversation is recorded. If you state I just had to use lethal force to stop someone from murdering me etc. Much better than saying anything else.

Saying you just killed someone implies murder and be it a PC term or not I'd rather say defended, stop threat, protected myself, rather than kill. When you pull your not doing it to kill someone that may be the result later but you are stopping that initial threat.


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## poppadawg (Aug 10, 2007)

A real man would have happily killed another man over a $20 used weed eater. What are you some kind of wennie? So what if it cost 15k in legal fees? Being able to stare at the ceiling in the middle of the night knowing you killed that sorry SOB over used lawn equipment would be worth it. Whats a little emotional drama and trauma when you can be a bona fide manly man.
BTW-My neighbor just stole my newspaper. I'm going to go put three across his chest. Woo Hoo my man card has arrived!


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## Muddskipper (Dec 29, 2004)

poppadawg said:


> A real man would have happily killed another man over a $20 used weed eater. ..... Whats a little emotional drama and trauma when you can be a bona fide manly man.
> ....


Agreed!

I am still fuming this morning, but I am happy my family and I are safe...


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## ralph7 (Apr 28, 2009)

I am still fuming this morning, but I am happy my family and I are safe...[/QUOTE]

did you catch any flak over the round you shot at the tire?


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## beto1 (Apr 26, 2010)

Not sure how this would work out. If you had followed them from your house to the pawn shop then you can do whatever you want to them. You found them later and that is not considered continuous pursuit. If you were threatened by the truck then that might be a different story. ?????????


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## Pasadena1944 (Mar 20, 2010)

TheAnt said:


> A pro could do far better I am sure
> If you have a wheel mouse you can hold Ctrl and scroll in.
> If not you can hold Ctrl and hit + or - to zoom.
> 
> ...


I took some black out of the pic of the guy in the truck and he now shows up good...


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## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

Muddskipper said:


> I am still fuming this morning, but I am happy my family and I are safe...


what a story. i think you should count your blessings that you're not in jail for reckless discharge of a weapon, or worse, like accidently killing an innocent bystander.

some of you chl guys scare me.


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## poppadawg (Aug 10, 2007)

Mudskipper, that whole ordeal sounds nuts. Your adrenalene level must have gone through the roof when you saw those guys at the pawn shop. I imagine it would take a while to come down off that. Could you imagine what how hard it would have been if someone would have been killed? No way your life would have ever been the same. You absolutey did the right thing


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## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

Cool, now I have a face to put to the dream while sitting in bed at night staring at the ceiling going through scenarios of them breaking into my house and I split them in half with 000 buckshot.


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## CoastalOutfitters (Aug 20, 2004)

fired only one round ???? 

prob. didn't have to shoot the guy, but you should have vented the front fender , esp if he tried to run over you.


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## txstoke (Aug 16, 2008)

CoastalOutfitters said:


> fired only one round ????
> 
> prob. didn't have to shoot the guy, but you should have vented the front fender , esp if he tried to run over you.


add one more to the 'keyboard vigilante' count. :headknock


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## goodwood (Mar 30, 2009)

at the very least they went into hiding and won't bother anyone for a while.


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## everrude (Jun 16, 2011)

InfamousJ said:


> Cool, now I have a face to put to the dream while sitting in bed at night staring at the ceiling going through scenarios of them breaking into my house and I split them in half with 000 buckshot.


 you really should seek some professional help. you sound like a tdc guard that failed a police academy. dammnnnn!!:work:


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## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

everrude said:


> you really should seek some professional help. you sound like a tdc guard that failed a police academy. dammnnnn!!:work:


I've trained my family to hit the floor on their belly if a perp is in their room so when I run in, I can take a quick look to identify the situation and sweep it clean waist high. I have a Servpro magnet on the fridge to call for cleanup.


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## C.Hern5972 (Jul 17, 2009)

InfamousJ said:


> Cool, now I have a face to put to the dream while sitting in bed at night staring at the ceiling going through scenarios of them breaking into my house and I split them in half with 000 buckshot.


3" Magnum 000 Buck...You got it


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## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

txstoke said:


> add one more to the 'keyboard vigilante' count. :headknock


I find it telling that so many people on 2cool would let a person run them over with a truck and do nothing about it.

The OP was a vigilante in this case long before he drew his weapon. Drawing a weapon in self defense has nothing to do with being a vigilante.


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## let's talk fishin (Jan 4, 2008)

Tate said:


> I have heard too many of these stories. I close my garage when I am mowing in the back now.
> 
> Sent from Tapatalk


Same here at least you fired one at that ----head.


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## speckle-catcher (May 20, 2004)

Jolly Roger said:


> I find it telling that so many people on 2cool would let a person run them over with a truck and do nothing about it.
> 
> The OP was a vigilante in this case long before he drew his weapon. Drawing a weapon in self defense has nothing to do with being a vigilante.


so, trying to track down your own stolen items is being a vigilante?


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## mastercylinder60 (Dec 18, 2005)

Jolly Roger said:


> I find it telling that so many people on 2cool would let a person run them over with a truck and do nothing about it.


who said they'd "do nothing about it?"


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## BullyARed (Jun 19, 2010)

I think Muddskipper did the right action and that is not to shoot at the thieve. The stolen stuffs are not worth to take a live. I would have tried to take the picture of the license tag and turn it over to the police.


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## big_zugie (Mar 14, 2006)

Should have put that shot in his engine block


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## Muddskipper (Dec 29, 2004)

We might actually have a lead on these guys ... if it pans out I will update eveyone


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## scubaru (Mar 28, 2005)

They had 3 tires and you gave up pursuit? They couldn't have gone much further before you got the leo's to take over the chase.


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## down to fish (Jul 1, 2010)

A Bunch of Losers u should of unloaded a full clip in both of them


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## BullyARed (Jun 19, 2010)

down to fish said:


> A Bunch of Losers u should of unloaded a full clip in both of them


Ok, just say you put the two unarmed men down and I don't think in the eye of the law it is not a "just" for the kill. You will be more likely charged with 1st or 2nd degree murder over maybe $100 or so worth of stuffs. The legal cost you will be incurred would eat up any of your saving and put you in a deep huge debt. In this case, just shoot with the camera and turn them in.


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## devil1824 (Sep 4, 2010)

He didn't have any "clips" to put in them.:headknock


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## redduck (Jul 26, 2006)

It makes no difference if it was a used edger or any other "used" item I own, it is not ok for anyone to steal it. It is bleeding heart liberals that think thieves should just go their merry way or wait for the police to handle it, that is whats wrong with society. 
The police have a very low crime success rate. We need more Joe Horns and good people serving on jurys.


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## 47741 (Jan 5, 2010)

You whiners about protecting life are really irritating.

Nobody is going to pop a cap in someones well-deserved thieving arse and hit a bystander (and all this other ****)

Lighten up ya bunch of light footed Nancies.


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## 12lbtest (Jun 1, 2005)

Bryan, don't second guess your actions. You did what you could in the heat of the moment and while your situational tact might have led you to miss some things you should have done and do some things you maybe shouldn't have....you and the wife and kids are safe. Chalk it up to lessons learned and know that I will be on the lookout for theses clowns in the neighborhood. Living off the 'toine is a daily gamble and we got to watch each others backs. I would have felt sorry for those guys had they gotten at any fishing gear. 

TX Stoke, which Candlelight do you run by? The one on Candlelight Ln. or the one over by Clifton Middle School? I actually live on Candlelight Ln. Can't ell you the number of times I have heard the shenanigans from down at the park while loading up early in the morning. 

12lb


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## poppadawg (Aug 10, 2007)

You people that think he should have killed the POS thiefs over used lawn equipment are either stupid or psychopaths. It is not about the criminal, dumbazz, it's the poor bastard that has to live with the images of killing another human being for the rest of his life. Over lawn used lawn equipment? Not to mention the heap of **** he is going to get from the justice system. The entire Unitied States Government against mudskipper. Yeah thats a good idea.


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## speckle-catcher (May 20, 2004)

a thief is a thief is a thief.

and the only good thief, is a dead one.


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## Bull Minnow (May 28, 2004)

These guys will get caugh soon. They are ovbiously on drugs looking for fast money. A drug addict will make a mistake soon enough. Good luck with it all Mud. I hope they catch those freaking thieves!


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## BullyARed (Jun 19, 2010)

poppadawg said:


> You people that think he should have killed the POS thiefs over used lawn equipment are either stupid or psychopaths. It is not about the criminal, dumbazz, it's the poor bastard that has to live with the images of killing another human being for the rest of his life. Over lawn used lawn equipment? Not to mention the heap of **** he is going to get from the justice system. The entire Unitied States Government against mudskipper. Yeah thats a good idea.


2X. It's easy to talk tough but when you find you will be behind bar for 20+ years for killing two unarmed men over these used lawn equipments, it's really stupid and the one's who suffer will be your wife and kids, mother, father, etc...


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## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

BullyARed said:


> 2X. It's easy to talk tough but when you find you will be behind bar for 20+ years for killing two unarmed *THIEVES *over these used lawn equipments, it's really stupid *our society protects criminals more than the common person *and the one's who suffer will be your wife and kids, mother, father, etc...


corrected it for you


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## Steelersfan (May 21, 2004)

Correct me if I am wrong but I thought TX castle doctrine allows the use of deadly force to defend life AND property?

Now, going off and chasing them down at the local pawn shop is probably muddying the waters quite a bit and may be stretching the doctrine past its breaking point but what if he had walked in on them perps in his garage taking the equipment?

Totally justified, no?


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## BullyARed (Jun 19, 2010)

InfamousJ said:


> corrected it for you


Perhaps it's true. Criminals provide jobs for judges, lawyers, and cops.


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## InfamousJ (May 21, 2004)

BullyARed said:


> Perhaps it's true. Criminals provide jobs for judges, lawyers, and cops.


and vote democrat


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## Porky (Nov 1, 2006)

They look like some Gunspoint or Hardy road boys.
I have seen that white boy somewhere, seems like the Sam's Club parking lot(richey & 45) and he was run off by security in what looks like the same white truck.
It's common practice in the hood for them to cruise the lots looking for freebies and entitlement.


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## vt_fish02 (Oct 16, 2009)

Steelersfan said:


> Correct me if I am wrong but I thought TX castle doctrine allows the use of deadly force to defend life AND property?
> 
> Now, going off and chasing them down at the local pawn shop is probably muddying the waters quite a bit and may be stretching the doctrine past its breaking point but what if he had walked in on them perps in his garage taking the equipment?
> 
> Totally justified, no?


I believe you are correct. At least that is what the SO told me. If you have an attached garage, once they cross the threshold of the door anything goes. They also told me I could use an means to retrieve my property (bicycle) if I saw it in the neighborhood. My wife and I caught the thief about 2hrs. later while we were "walking the dog". Took all I had to keep from beating his teeth down his throut.


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## BullyARed (Jun 19, 2010)

InfamousJ said:


> and vote democrat


Nice try!


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## Blk Jck 224 (Oct 16, 2009)

BullyARed said:


> 2X. It's easy to talk tough but when you find you will be behind bar for 20+ years for killing two unarmed men


The police interpret vehicles being driven towards them as assault with a deadly weapon & shoot to kill. Are you saying this wouldn't be the case for you & I? I'm thinking I would probably shoot if they were trying to run my arse over.


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## Texas T (May 21, 2004)

When I shot at an SOB trying to run over me the LEO said it was a clear case of "self defense against aggravated assault with a motor vehicle" and gave me a case number. He then wanted to know if I hit them. Told him nope I pulled it off his ear and put it in his steering wheel since if I would have put it in his ear the SOB would have run into my house and I figured he didn't have insurance.


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## donf (Aug 8, 2005)

It's possible , under Texas law, that you could have taken them out and walked. But for lawn equipment? How old was that stuff, the new mowers, provided by your insurance company, are so much nicer. 
And which one of their thug relatives is going to find you and snipe you out in your driveway. 
As a armed citizen, you must rehearse every possible lethal force scenario pre event and commit to a course of action, or no action at all.
While we are legally empowered to kill the drug impaired 14 year old in the act of stealing our golf clubs , that is just not worth it.


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## BullyARed (Jun 19, 2010)

Blk Jck 224 said:


> The police interpret vehicles being driven towards them as assault with a deadly weapon & shoot to kill. Are you saying this wouldn't be the case for you & I? I'm thinking I would probably shoot if they were trying to run my arse over.


Did the police actually see it? Make sure you have good witness; Otherwise your word against their lawyer. Yes, in the situation where self-defense and justification is called for, deadly force may be used. IMO it would be a dump action to escalate into a killing situation over some used lawn equipments. Just shoot with your camera and turn the matter over to the police. Taking a human's live is easy to talk, but live thru it will not be easy.


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## Jolly Roger (May 21, 2004)

BullyARed said:


> Did the police actually see it? Make sure you have good witness; Otherwise your word against their lawyer. Yes, in the situation where self-defense and justification is called for, deadly force may be used. IMO it would be a dump action to escalate into a killing situation over some used lawn equipments. Just shoot with your camera and turn the matter over to the police. Taking a human's live is easy to talk, but live thru it will not be easy.





Muddskipper said:


> I go to the bed and grab my edger, and he backs up like to hit me.


Guess I see this different then some of yall.

The thief was using his truck as a deadly weapon as the OP was tring to recover his property.

I can only take the word of the OP, that the thief was tring to hit him. He was not discharging his weapon becasue of the used lawn equiment. He discharged his weapon in self defense.


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## speckle-catcher (May 20, 2004)

donf said:


> It's possible , under Texas law, that you could have taken them out and walked. But for lawn equipment? *How old was that stuff, the new mowers, provided by your insurance company, are so much nicer.*
> And which one of their thug relatives is going to find you and snipe you out in your driveway.
> As a armed citizen, you must rehearse every possible lethal force scenario pre event and commit to a course of action, or no action at all.
> While we are legally empowered to kill the drug impaired 14 year old in the act of stealing our golf clubs , that is just not worth it.


wouldn't even clear most people's deductible


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## JED (Nov 14, 2004)

Let me say first that I agree that every thief should be tortured and executed. I'm completely on your side.
However, if you did happen to 'defend' yourself with lethal force, I doubt you would have cleared a grand jury.


Your life may have been in danger but you created the situation by seeking them out. You now became the aggressor and this guy could state that,
"This crazy guy tried to block me from leaving, said that I had his stuff and is waiving a gun around, I was in fear for my life...." In that case he is just as justified to preserve his own life as you would have been. 

The castle doctrine really has no bearing in this situation. My interpretation of it is an,'in the act' scenario, not a couple of hours after the theft. If you catch them in the act on your property, then act accordingly. The best thing to do in this situation is to maintain your composure, call the cops, follow at a safe distance , relay the info and let the police handle it. This way, you, your money, your family and the public are safe. 

Nowadays your word means nothing. Have serial numbers/hidden markings and photographs of your property. Those things would prove invaluable and solidify a case for you and against them.

Also, ricochets are a very real and uncontrollable danger to the public. Please be completely aware of your surroundings if you are ever in a similar situation again.


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## spurgersalty (Jun 29, 2010)

JED said:


> Let me say first that I agree that every thief should be tortured and executed. I'm completely on your side.
> However, if you did happen to 'defend' yourself with lethal force, I doubt you would have cleared a grand jury.
> 
> Your life may have been in danger but you created the situation by seeking them out. You now became the aggressor and this guy could state that,
> ...


The guy might have trouble testifying about an alleged crazy man if "deadly" force had been used.


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## JED (Nov 14, 2004)

spurgersalty said:


> The guy might have trouble testifying about an alleged crazy man if "deadly" force had been used.


Maybe, but a witness wont. You gonna shoot them to?


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## spurgersalty (Jun 29, 2010)

JED said:


> Maybe, but a witness wont. You gonna shoot them to?


Depends on if I empty the clip or not......j/k.
I don't remember him saying he was waving his gun around.


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## JED (Nov 14, 2004)

spurgersalty said:


> Depends on if I empty the clip or not......j/k.
> I don't remember him saying he was waving his gun around.


As I said in my post, the thief COULD say that in his defense. And in all reality, he would. 
Unless you know if this thief is an honest thief?


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## JED (Nov 14, 2004)

As I said in my post, the thief COULD say that in his defense. And in all reality, he would. 
Unless you know if this thief is an honest thief?
But the weapon was brandished and used and would give validity to the thief's claim. Plus it was used not to defend a life, but in attempt to keep a misdemeanor offender from leaving a parking lot. He wasn't behind the truck when he shot the tire, that's impossible. He was obviously standing to the side of the truck and out of immediate danger. I'm sure that is in violation of the CCL provisions/regulations as well. But as a former LEO (USBP) I know how heated and amped up a person can get in life and death situations. Details get fuzzy and decisions are always questioned after the fact


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## spurgersalty (Jun 29, 2010)

JED said:


> As I said in my post, the thief COULD say that in his defense. And in all reality, he would.
> Unless you know if this thief is an honest thief?
> But the weapon was brandished and used and would give validity to the thief's claim. Plus it was used not to defend a life, but in attempt to keep a misdemeanor offender from leaving a parking lot. He wasn't behind the truck when he shot the tire, that's impossible. He was obviously standing to the side of the truck and out of immediate danger. I'm sure that is in violation of the CCL provisions/regulations as well. But as a former LEO (USBP) I know how heated and amped up a person can get in life and death situations. Details get fuzzy and decisions are always questioned after the fact


I don't believe he was out of danger. The man was still in the truck, so the "weapon" was still armed. Clearly still in danger.
Edit: until they left that is. But he didn't know they were leaving.


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## Blk Jck 224 (Oct 16, 2009)

JED said:


> As I said in my post, the thief COULD say that in his defense. And in all reality, he would.
> Unless you know if this thief is an honest thief


'Honest Thief'...Would this be an example of an oxymoron? Do thieves have standards?


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## spurgersalty (Jun 29, 2010)

Blk Jck 224 said:


> 'Honest Thief'...Would this be an example of an oxymoron? Do thieves have standards?


Yes, thieves have standards. It was probably Stihl power equipment. None better.


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## Muddskipper (Dec 29, 2004)

*UPDATE - from PD*

Well the Truck was found on the side of a road .... and would you believe it was stolen ???

So plates would not have helped ...

Truck was found on 34th somewhere ...

So the thugs are in the NW loop area ...

From Spring Branch, Heights, Oak Forest areas ...

Please be on the look out for the White older male with glasses


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## POC Troutman (Jul 13, 2009)

Muddskipper said:


> Well the Truck was found on the side of a road .... and would you believe it was stolen ???
> 
> So plates would not have helped ...
> 
> ...


what's to keep you from posting his picture around the area at convenience stores and even on the road side? kinda like a lost dog... "if found, please call police, they will come pick him up"

theives just absolutely burn my arse... if it was me and i had his picture, i'd probably plaster that sucker all over town.

i don't know if this thought has crossed your mind, but i would be extra careful around the house, locking things down, closing the garage door, and keeping the .45 handy in case he wants to come back and talk about the tire you blew out.

any update as far as repercussions from the discharge of the round to his tire? or are you not at liberty to discuss?


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## CajunBob (Feb 24, 2008)

I have the Aholes photo on facebook maybe that will help got some good friends in Houston.


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## Whoopin It Up! (Dec 20, 2010)

*Theives ... they really have no idea*

as to just what they do to one's sense of security. Once you have been robbed (burgularized) you feel completely violated. The 1st thing that hits you is "just what all was taken / stolen?" To Muddskipper, I am sure you felt this adrenalin rush.

Not too long ago my home was a victim to a burglar(s). Actually what was stolen was not in the home, but on my large back porch / patio. My patio back porch is 30' x 50' and is concrete and has a roof on it. My 4 wheel utility wagon was parked on the patio and it was stolen in the night hours. The thieves actually pulled up in a field directly behind our house, took bolt cutters and cut through my heavy duty cyclone fencing, then they sneaked in and rolled my utility wagon off the patio and out through the cut hole in the fence. My property is completely fenced, all 12 acres. The field behind our house is a 100 acre farm plot. The thieves just trespassed on my neighbors farm, then broke in to my property. I called the police and filled out a report. Most likely the utility wagon will never be found. Most likely it has been sold or is in use by the thieve(s).

Since my utility wagon (model is called Chuck Wagon w/ Honda engine) was stolen, I have added more outdoor lights to my property and I have re-armed my home with something that will stop a burglar in his tracks! I believe in the Texas castle law! I will protect my property. At night the awareness goes to a higher sense. I pity the fool(s) that crosses my fence in the dark!

To Muddskipper ... post the pics of those sorry bastards in every store in your area. Too bad the truck they were driving was stolen! But I am sure these 2 thieves have done much more than steal your lawn equipment! I think they will get caught and hopefully they will get what is coming to them. Like 20 years in jail!

By the way ... next time do not shoot the tires on the vehicle that is trying to run you over! You know what to shoot!


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## Splash (Oct 22, 2004)

Bummed to read what happened to you. I have my CHL too. Was taught something years ago taking scuba diving lessons: Stop, Think and React. Those 3 words have lived in my head for many years. Just wanted to share. Be careful Brian.


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## CoastalOutfitters (Aug 20, 2004)

you guys must not have had very good chl instructors...........

if you hold down the B button your holster and also push up arrow and safety on the pistol , it will give you mutant ninja roll and shoot skills with super flame ammo.


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## Duramaxjack (Jan 15, 2007)

Muddskipper said:


> Well the Truck was found on the side of a road .... and would you believe it was stolen ???
> 
> So plates would not have helped ...
> 
> ...


Don't forget the s**t stain in his pants from when you shot his tire out. I hope you get these guy's and BTW Good job on checking all the pawn shops right away. I would think a theif would let the crime cool down some before pawning the goods. I guess not.


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