# 450 Bushmaster vs 458 SOCOM



## chicken fried

Thinking of building a big bore AR for hunting hogs and deer. I was wanting y'all's opinions on these two. Experiences etc. thanks.


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## CHARLIE

I would think the original 223 would do a better job and also further out.


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## WRsteveX

Anything bigger than 223 for Texas deer is overkill in my book. You just don't need that much. Even for anything under a 300lb hog, a 223 is still my go to gun.
I just bought a Ithaca "hogslayer" that shoots a 300gr, .58cal bullet at 2000fps. I bet I could kill an elephant with that thing.. I don't even like shooting it. It's just way too much gun, and ammo is way too expensive. 
Now that I think about it, other that 2 hogs with that shotgun, I've never killed a deer or hog with anything bigger than a 223. Plenty hogs and axis with .17hmr too.


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## Bird

Ah, but if he's looking to shoot suppressed, the 458 socom is an excellent choice. The problem with subsonic rounds is to make up for low velocity (> 1050 fps muzzle) they have to chunk a big projectile to have any type of energy downrange. Part of the original design brief for the 458 socom was the ability to suppress well with subsonic loads.


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## mrvmax

I think your main concern should be getting ammo or reloading supplies if you plan to reload. Actually, now that I think about it, your main concern will be getting the upper or entire rifle then ammo/reloading components. I had a hard time finding reloading supplies for 300 blackout and I am a dealer. Luckily I ordered my upper before the panic. Firearms, ammo and reloading components are hard to come by these days and right now it doesn't look like it will get much better for a while.


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## Fordzilla06

.300 AAC. .450 or .458 would destroy a deer, way too big of a round. If you're planning on shooting sub sonic get the .300 AAC if not then 6.8 SPC. Any larger and deer will become tannerite.


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## CHARLIE

Fordzilla06

Big heavy slow bullet doesent tear up too much. Not like a high velocity round would.


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## Fordzilla06

CHARLIE said:


> Fordzilla06
> 
> Big heavy slow bullet doesent tear up too much. Not like a high velocity round would.


You ever shot a 25.06? Compare the exit to a 30.06. The 30.06 leaves a much nastier wound. 25.06 high velocity lighter bullet, less damage. Plus the .300 blackout in 220 grain is a sub sonic bullet. According to you less damage than the 140 grain supersonic in the same caliber? I don't think so.


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## chicken fried

Thanks for the input. I wasn't going to use a suppressor and I forgot about the panic buying going on now. I would reload for it. I agree with Charlie on damage. I sure there are several people on this site that hunt with 300 and 7mm mags and I know they do more damage than either of these big bores. My son hunts with a 243 and I hate the caliber. He made a good double lung shot and ran fifty yards without leaving a drop of blood. 100 gr federal. I know everyone feels different I just hate having to look for an animal without a blood trail. I just feel with the calibers less than .25 that there is less room for errors. A .22 LR will kill deer size game I just don't like looking for it after the shot. I also think the big bore carbines are cool.


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## WRsteveX

chicken fried said:


> Thanks for the input. I wasn't going to use a suppressor and I forgot about the panic buying going on now. I would reload for it. I agree with Charlie on damage. I sure there are several people on this site that hunt with 300 and 7mm mags and I know they do more damage than either of these big bores. My son hunts with a 243 and I hate the caliber. He made a good double lung shot and ran fifty yards without leaving a drop of blood. 100 gr federal. I know everyone feels different I just hate having to look for an animal without a blood trail. I just feel with the calibers less than .25 that there is less room for errors. A .22 LR will kill deer size game I just don't like looking for it after the shot. I also think the big bore carbines are cool.


Big bore anything is cool. Cars, motorcycles, guns.. He'll even a big bore weedeater is cool. 
My personal thinking is big calibers for hunting, is just overkill. compensating for possibly not making a clean shot. I'm not saying its wrong or I disagree with it completely. I like shooting big guns, but to shoot a 150lb deer with a .450 bushmaster.. It's like dove hunting with a 10ga.


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## Bird

chicken fried said:


> Thanks for the input. I wasn't going to use a suppressor and I forgot about the panic buying going on now. I would reload for it. I agree with Charlie on damage. I sure there are several people on this site that hunt with 300 and 7mm mags and I know they do more damage than either of these big bores. *My son hunts with a 243 and I hate the caliber. He made a good double lung shot and ran fifty yards without leaving a drop of blood. 100 gr federal. *I know everyone feels different I just hate having to look for an animal without a blood trail. I just feel with the calibers less than .25 that there is less room for errors. A .22 LR will kill deer size game I just don't like looking for it after the shot. I also think the big bore carbines are cool.


This probably has more to do with the bullet type than the caliber. There is some very interesting reading on bullet selection for the game type on the bullet manufacturers websites. My Lyman reloading manual has an entire chapter dedicated to it and they talk a lot about different bullet types, like ballistic tip vs soft point vs hollow point etc and how the expansion properties are different. Some are better suited to thin skin game and/or soft tissue shots (like a lung shot with no large bone impact) while others are better suited for thick skin game and/or heavy bone impact. For example when I'm primarily hunting WT deer with my 308, I use 165 gr Sierra Gameking soft points, but when primarily after hogs, I use 165 gr Hornady TTSX, which are made from gilding metal and behave similar to a solid. I realize I can't have every type of round for every type of game I might get a shot at, but knowing the different properties of the bullets I'm shooting gives me the best chance at a good quick kill shot.


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## CaptDocHoliday

This may be a little more graphic than Mont would like, so I apologize in advance. This was a very big bodied Arkansas swamp buck (250#+ field dressed) that was shot at 139 yards with a 95gr Winchester Ballistic tip out of a *.243* (20" carbine Weatherby Vanguard S2). Shot hit broad side, striking a rib on the entry and exiting between ribs. Deer ran about 120 yards, and left a blood trail you could follow at a jog. Entrance wound was about the size of a dime, and the exit was about the size of a nickle. Lungs were completely trashed. Pictured is the exit wound as I found the deer.

Side note: had this buck not busted up his rack, I figure he'd of been in the 150-160" range. Would have been a new farm record, and was the bigest bodied deer I've even seen.

Shot another buck earlier this year at 35 yds and had good bullet performance with nickle sized exit wounds too. I have a couple of boxes of Barnes I have been meaning to switch to, but after seseing the performance of the BT's, I'm going to stick with what I've always shot. They do a lot of damage on soft tissue.


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## Bottomsup

Oh no not the dreaded Nosler BT. Havent you read all the negative posts on here how they blow up on contact and wont kill a deer? I have shot many with a 50 grain 22-250 and 140 grain 7mm mag. Never lost a single deer nor had to trail one.



CaptDocHoliday said:


> This may be a little more graphic than Mont would like, so I apologize in advance. This was a very big bodied Arkansas swamp buck (250#+ field dressed) that was shot at 139 yards with a 95gr Winchester Ballistic tip out of a *.243* (20" carbine Weatherby Vanguard S2). Shot hit broad side, striking a rib on the entry and exiting between ribs. Deer ran about 120 yards, and left a blood trail you could follow at a jog. Entrance wound was about the size of a dime, and the exit was about the size of a nickle. Lungs were completely trashed. Pictured is the exit wound as I found the deer.
> 
> Side note: had this buck not busted up his rack, I figure he'd of been in the 150-160" range. Would have been a new farm record, and was the bigest bodied deer I've even seen.
> 
> Shot another buck earlier this year at 35 yds and had good bullet performance with nickle sized exit wounds too. I have a couple of boxes of Barnes I have been meaning to switch to, but after seseing the performance of the BT's, I'm going to stick with what I've always shot. They do a lot of damage on soft tissue.


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## CHARLIE

fordzilla06

Sorry but I have to dis agree with you, just gonna say velocity does the damage and leave it at that. Big slow heavy bullet is just going to keep on going, and going, Like they are designed to do. As a bullet increases in velocity much more damage occurrs.Lot has to depend on bullet design also. Good huntin.


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## WRsteveX

I've never trailed a deer with a .223...


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## Fordzilla06

CHARLIE said:


> fordzilla06
> 
> Sorry but I have to dis agree with you, just gonna say velocity does the damage and leave it at that. Big slow heavy bullet is just going to keep on going, and going, Like they are designed to do. As a bullet increases in velocity much more damage occurrs.Lot has to depend on bullet design also. Good huntin.


 Guess we'll agree to disagree on this one. Good huntin to you too.


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## deerdude2000

I agree with charlie big slow bullet just going to punch a hole! I shoot a 7mm-08 140gr ballistic tips and they drop where there standing!but i've shot a few pigs with my 50cal beowulf works pretty good at stopping big hogs in thick brush in there tracks.


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