# AR build



## locolobo

Got an AR lower and trigger set for Christmas. Now I gotta build. Already have a Mini-14 with archangel stock so don't need another 223. Wanting to go with a more deer friendly round. Thinking about 6.5 Grendel. Having never built an AR before, am looking for advice from the forum. Local suppliers, brand names to look at, brands to stay away from, materials of construction for various parts.The details. Will even consider other rounds suitable for deer hunting if someone has a favorite. I know I will get a lot of advice from you guys and thanks in advance. LOBO


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## Muddskipper

Start with Wilson combat and work your way down from there....$$$

Spikes
Palmetto state armory
Should be viewed too...


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## mas360

The Grendel is great round, but ammo availability is sketchy and the round being a proprietary product has not become as popular as the 6.8 SPC, which has about 32% increase in punch compared to the .223. The best 6.8 SPC upper builder I know of is Bison Armory. 

If you want a longer range caliber with the AR15 platform, you may want to look at the WSSM family. However, WSSM ammo is even more difficult to find than the Grendel and is also very expensive. If you choose the WSSM you have to get into reloading.


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## locolobo

Did a little research today and 6.5 G has a rep for better accuracy than the 6.8 spc due to a better BC in bullet weight range than the 6.8, though the 6.8 has a little more velocity. Would rather have accuracy than a few more FPS. Checked out Alexander Arms today, who had a hand in developing the 6.5 round and supplies all of the parts to build the upper but they are fairly expensive. Not really wanting to scrimp on the parts but I am on a budget. No set limit yet but not gonna spend $2500 total on this rifle. That said, I have used an AR to harvest deer before, using .223 and it did a good job @ 50-75 yds with 60 gr. Nosler partition. I can still go that route but as said, I already have a 223 so not really wanting to replicate. Also there are better bullet on the market since I developed that load. I still have not made up my mind. Little early in the game. Advice/ suggestions still appreciated. I am looking forward to this build . Lobo


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## Too Tall

I bought a complete 6.8 upper from White Oak Armament for $650. Its as accurate as I am out to 300yds. Thats plenty for me as I don't have the need or desire to shoot at deer any further than that. Its very rare that I will shoot at one past 200yds. Now a coyote or pig I wouldn't hesitate to take a shot out there.


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## Sgrem

6.8 has more velocity at the muzzle....but the 6.5 grendel will catch it within 100 yards. ...6.8 is done by about 300yards and drops off quick. 6.5 stays supersonic past 1000 yards. Been reports of several elk killed with the 6.5 grendel out to 400 yards. No 6.8 can compare. Ammo is easily available and a standard inventory item at Academy, BPS, and Gander M....easily bought at ammoseek.Com or gunbot.Com too.

The 6.5 Grendel is the pinnacle and the best possible performance for the AR15 platform....nothing else to improve on....period.

Check out Gunbroker.com....Lots of Grendels there in the $1500 range. And parts in the $600 range to finish you up.


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## w_r_ranch

Look at putting a .50 Beowulf upper receiver on it, especially if most of your shots are under 250 yds. It will take down anything in North America & it's pretty accurate.










Here's a good article on it: *What's The .50 Beowulf Good For? - Guns & Ammo*


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## Sgrem

If I didn't already have a 44 mag semi auto carbine for brush gun I would get a .50 Beowolf for sure...AA has developed the best of the extremes capable for the AR15.


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## dwilliams35

locolobo said:


> Did a little research today and 6.5 G has a rep for better accuracy than the 6.8 spc due to a better BC in bullet weight range than the 6.8, though the 6.8 has a little more velocity. Would rather have accuracy than a few more FPS. Checked out Alexander Arms today, who had a hand in developing the 6.5 round and supplies all of the parts to build the upper but they are fairly expensive. Not really wanting to scrimp on the parts but I am on a budget. No set limit yet but not gonna spend $2500 total on this rifle. That said, I have used an AR to harvest deer before, using .223 and it did a good job @ 50-75 yds with 60 gr. Nosler partition. I can still go that route but as said, I already have a 223 so not really wanting to replicate. Also there are better bullet on the market since I developed that load. I still have not made up my mind. Little early in the game. Advice/ suggestions still appreciated. I am looking forward to this build . Lobo


 One thing you need to keep in mind is that the 6.8 is currently four different chambers, some more accurate than others: look into AR Performance barrels, he's got two of those chambers under his belt: he's done quite a bit of work squeezing everything he can out of the 6.8 round. Also, there is a HUGE difference in factory ammo loadings for that 6.8: it's still just up in the air what the cartridge really is for the most part, if you choose your chamber and loads correctly you can work a lot of accuracy out of it. I have gotten some very good results out of an ARP Midlength barrel and Hornady factory ammo. I don't know if I've ever seen 6.5 ammo on the shelf anywhere... That's not all that important if you reload pretty extensively already, but I always like to have an "off the shelf" fallback position..


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## locolobo

*First update*

While son was here was gonna put lower parts in but no trigger or hammer. Stuff came in a package and was supposed to be complete lower parts group. He's taking it back to make it "complete".

Looking through some I-net stuff and have found barrels from different sources and found some with 1:9 and most were in 1:7 twist. Having NO experience with this round. was wondering which I should go with. Will probably be going middle of the road and be shooting 123-125 gr. bullets.


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## MrG

locolobo said:


> While son was here was gonna put lower parts in but no trigger or hammer. Stuff came in a package and was supposed to be complete lower parts group. He's taking it back to make it "complete"....


That may be a blessing in disguise. You probably want a better trigger anyway if it's just a 'standard' LPK.


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## locolobo

*Update*

Son came back today with a complete lpk and we got it installed. My old eyes don't focus like they used to so he had to tell me it is an Anderson lower and kit. Never heard of them but everything functions as well as could be expected. He also had to help with putting all those little bitty pins in all those little bitty holes. Don't have a trigger pull gage but it felt, to me, like about 5-6 lbs( just a little more than my Savage accu-trigger) and was more crisp than I had expected. Little to no creep. Now that I know how the trigger group goes in, I am thinking about a simple polish job and a lighter trigger spring. May make it a little lighter. I've got a little time on my hands as the next step will be the stock/buffer and i gotta save some money. Also need to get some proper tools such as an upper vise block and I saw a Wheeler truing device for truing the fromt of the upper where the barrel nut screws on. Little bit of money to make it as good a tackdriver as I can. Thoughts are: Spike upper and Midway has a Shilen 20" match 6.5 Grendel barrel and bolt for around $450. Kinda pricey but "what the heck. May be the only rifle I ever build". Will keep Y'all posted. Lobo


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## dwilliams35

locolobo said:


> Son came back today with a complete lpk and we got it installed. My old eyes don't focus like they used to so he had to tell me it is an Anderson lower and kit. Never heard of them but everything functions as well as could be expected. He also had to help with putting all those little bitty pins in all those little bitty holes. Don't have a trigger pull gage but it felt, to me, like about 5-6 lbs( just a little more than my Savage accu-trigger) and was more crisp than I had expected. Little to no creep. Now that I know how the trigger group goes in, I am thinking about a simple polish job and a lighter trigger spring. May make it a little lighter. I've got a little time on my hands as the next step will be the stock/buffer and i gotta save some money. Also need to get some proper tools such as an upper vise block and I saw a Wheeler truing device for truing the fromt of the upper where the barrel nut screws on. Little bit of money to make it as good a tackdriver as I can. Thoughts are: Spike upper and Midway has a Shilen 20" match 6.5 Grendel barrel and bolt for around $450. Kinda pricey but "what the heck. May be the only rifle I ever build". Will keep Y'all posted. Lobo


Get in touch with this guy:

http://thebarrelman.com/

BIG discount on Shilen barrels compared to anyone else I've found: 6.5 isn't one of the ones he "stocks", but I would imagine he could get one if they make it. He sells mainly to the benchrest crowd, I got my .204 Shilen AR barrel from him and was very happy with the transaction. Good guy, up in Dallas.


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## locolobo

*Major purchase*

Just placed an order @ Midway.com for a Shilen 20" barrel in 6.5 grendel. S.S., hbar contour rifle length gas port. And I got a $50 birthday discount. I'm on my way.


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## michaelbaranowski

I picked up a Aero lower the other day but I am going a different direction and building up a .22lr. I haven't been doing much hunting lately but more range time so figure .22lr is still cheaper and fun for me.


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## locolobo

Hope this works, first photo load. OK, appears to work. New "gun"


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## prarie dog

Think you'll be happy with the Grendal. A friend and I changed the barrel out on his about three months ago. His rifle was originally a carbine length Grendal, we put a Lilja heavy barrel on it that's 23". It is astonishingly accurate, we're still doing load development with this rifle, 3/4" is about the worst group it's shot. I've read about this kind of accuracy on an AR platform but have never witnessed it. Thinking about building one in 6mm Fat Rat, it may be a better cartridge than the 6.5 Grendal but I don't think I'd shoot an elk with it.


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## calphil

I'm building a Grendel myself - only thing I have as well is lower , gotta accumulate funds to purchase


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## Bily Lovec

biggest problem w/ the 6.5G is you need 20"+ barrels for it to be worth messing with. the 6.8 is the best caliber for 12.5"-16" barrels. 
there are way better hunting bullets for the 6.8 then the 6.5G now, SSA is loading some incredible hunting ammo.
I dont believe there is advantage to a 6.5G over the 6.8 in less than 400 yards. 

My 16" Noveske will shoot cloverleaves @ 200 yards w/SSA factory ammo and <2" @ 300 yards. 

the 6.8 has killed everything in north america also, its killed elk @ 400 yards, grizzley bears, guy shot a mountain lion @ 300 yards. I have a 400 lb black bear with mine.

the only advantage you'll see w/the 6.5G is on paper.


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## calphil

PD .. I'm curious as to what the 6mm Fat Rat is based off of?


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## Ernest

6mm Rat, Fat Rat, 6mm AR, and 6mm ARTurbo are all based upon a 6.5 Grendel necked down to 6mm.


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## locolobo

Barrel is ordered, Grendel it is. Any advice on the rest of the parts? Still got the upper reciever/BCG to go and stock/buffer.


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## Sgrem

Alexander Arms did a huge amount of development and research on the BCG and building it strong enough for the pressures...I would get from there.

Gunfighter medium charging handle.
Magpul PRS are just too nice not to shoot...and so flexible to get kids or others adjusted in shooting great.
ERGO textured deluxe grip....just get it period.


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## Ernest

AA did alot of work on the bolt. The carrier is not changed. AA also has a extreme duty/super performance type bolt. I have approx. 3k rounds down the tube using one of their "normal" bolts, including some relatively hot loads, with no issues. 

Not really a fan of the PRS stock. If you use a good scope mount, you basically don't need the riser to get a decent site picture (assuming you don't have some weird shaped head and are a semi normal sized adult.) If I had it to do over, I would just buy another A2 type stock for my grendel. 

If you are going to reload, buy the Redding dies up front. The Lee dies have a very mixed reputation. In that regard, I recommend the S bushing dies from Redding. 

Finally, in the AR with the Grendel, its very easy to get into an over pressure situation, particularly with projectiles over about 110 grains and temp sensitive powders. And, the AA chamber it is unlike the 5.56. You have to watch OAL. You can't just load everything to mag length and call it good. Hot day, temp sensitive powder, bit of a jam on the bullet, and its ruined brass and possibly a broken bolt.


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## locolobo

*update*

Got a shipment from Midway on the 7th. Barrel, bolt, go-no go gages and the frame lapping tool. still have a way to go but getting there.


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## MrG

Cool! Keep us posted. Frame lapping tool? What does that do?


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## dwilliams35

MrG said:


> Cool! Keep us posted. Frame lapping tool? What does that do?


 Squares up the front of the receiver so the barrel is in line with everything behind it. Not really necessary if you're just putting together a truck-gun carbine or something, but can straighten out some problems you'd have with a precision rifle..


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## locolobo

Frame lapping tool? What does that do? 


According to legend the faces of the frame @ the barrel and stock nuts may not be true to the axis of the recievers. The lapping tool removes a small amount of metal on the high side so the barrel and stock will be true to the recievers, resulting in a more accurate firearm. Is it worth it? I know a lot of ARs have been built without performing this process and were very accurate. But it was only $23 and to me it will be worth the money, giving me a little piece of mind.


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## Jungle_Jim

sgrem said:


> Alexander Arms did a huge amount of development and research on the BCG and building it strong enough for the pressures...I would get from there.
> 
> Gunfighter medium charging handle.
> Magpul PRS are just too nice not to shoot...and so flexible to get kids or others adjusted in shooting great.
> ERGO textured deluxe grip....just get it period.


I agree with all 3 of these. Great options.


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## locolobo

*update*

A friend has offered a milspec 6 pos. stock. He couldn't remember the brand. Which got me to wondering. Anyone else out there have any parts they need to get off their bench? PM me if you have the following. buffer tube and spring, dust cover & spring, for. assist plunger & spring, handguard.


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## calphil

Sent you a pm loco .. I have parts boxed and ready to ship if your interested .. All parts brand new not used


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## locolobo

*Another update*

Got an upper vise block from Midway. Man these guys are fast. Now all I need is an upper.

Calphil, Thanks for the quick reply. I sent PM. Will text later in the day.


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## locolobo

*Update*

I wanna thank Calphil and Garrett, a co-worker, For the extra parts from their builds. Got a little done on the Grendel AR. Doesn't look like much yet but the next step is the upper receiver. Blackhawk pistol grip and stock and Dpms buffer. I have a DPMS stock also but the Blackhawk is a tight fit and does not rattle on the tube although it is a little tight and hard to adjust. I gotta keep thinking deer rifle and these plastic guns are noisy enough as it is


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## locolobo

Got a question for the 2 Cool AR builders out there. Does anyone have an opinion on using the stock buffer spring with the 6.5 cartridge? I have been wondering about that. Have seen the adjustable gas blocks thinking this might be an alternative if needed. I mean I gotta buy a gas block anyway, right? and if the higher pressure round proves to be too much for the buffer it might be the way to go. Or, to the folks who have built for the higher pressure rounds, will I even need a more robust buffering system?


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## Ernest

My 6.5G uses a standard buffer spring. I've had the upper on three different lowers, all with standard buffer springs. 

The 6.5G is a lower pressure round relative to the 5.56. The 6.5G is held to lower pressures in the AR platform because of the increased bolt thrust associated with the case size. Run a 6.5G at 5.56 pressures in the AR platform, and you will be shearing bolt lugs and eating brass. 

Adjustable gas block does not hurt, but is not necessary.


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## Pocketfisherman

Better to control timing with gas port versus the spring if you can do so. A good barrelmaker will size the gasport accordingly for factory ammo.


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## locolobo

Ernest,Pocket, thanks for the info.


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## locolobo

*More questions*

@ this stage of the build I have more questions than I can remember at this time. Recomendations on gas block, clamp on or set screw. Have heard the set screw type may loosen over time but they are cheaper. BCG, I don't think I will need a boron coated bcg as this will not be a high volume shooter (mainly because I will be handloading for it) plus I am good @ cleaning and lubing after shooting. Steel or SS gas tube? Barrel nut? Seems to be more styles than Carter's got little liver pills. Crush washers for barrel installation? Have been cruising You Tube and there are so many differing opinions on just about every part of the build that it is, at times, confusing so any opinions or advice would be appreciated.


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## BradV

Gas block - I personally prefer the clamp on block, others may like a set screw. Properly torqued I don't think either will come loose. Depending on the application you might look into an adjustable gas block. 

Get a quality BCG from a reputable manufacturer and you are good to go. The coatings might make it a bit easier to clean. Shiny stuff can look cool too 

Gas tube - If you arent planning on shooting very much I doubt it will make any difference for you one way or the other.

Barrel nut - This likely depends on whatever handguard you plan on using. Many handguards will include their own barrel nut as it is part of their mounting system. Decide on a handguard, and then choose your barrel nut (if not included) to accomodate it.

Crush washers - Are you referring to muzzle device installation? There aren't crush washers used in barrel installation. They are normally used in timing a muzzle device. If you are shooting with a can, crush washers are a big NO. Shims are the better option. Are you referring to shimming the barrel extension to take up any clearance between the receiver and barrel extension?


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## locolobo

Brad, I'm not sure what the appllication is for the crush washers. Have seen them for sale in many of the AR web sites but have not seen them in the many build videos I have watched.
As mentioned before this will be a hunting rifle and will not have thousands of rounds put through it (at least not in a short time). That's what my Mini is for. And there will be nothing on the muzzle, no threads. 
I'm just trying to find out what is needed and where they go.
My plan for the handguard is a free floating Hogue overmolded. No rails. Not noisy. Maybe I should get it first before buying a nut.
Again, thanks for the advice.


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## muney pit

NM


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## MrG

locolobo said:


> Brad, I'm not sure what the appllication is for the crush washers. Have seen them for sale in many of the AR web sites but have not seen them in the many build videos I have watched.
> As mentioned before this will be a hunting rifle and will not have thousands of rounds put through it (at least not in a short time). That's what my Mini is for. And there will be nothing on the muzzle, no threads.
> I'm just trying to find out what is needed and where they go.
> My plan for the handguard is a free floating Hogue overmolded. No rails. Not noisy. Maybe I should get it first before buying a nut.
> Again, thanks for the advice.


That handguard has an integral barrel nut so you don't have to worry about that. Since the muzzle isn't threaded no crush washer will be needed.


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## Jungle_Jim

I really like the NiB BCGs from either WMD or Fail Zero. They cost a lot but it sure is nice to go shoot a few hundred rounds and just wipe the bcg off with a rag, as opposed to scraping and scrubing for hours.


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## locolobo

Should be getting the tax return back soon so will be finishing the build then. Mr G, seems you may have experience with the Hogue front end. Since it is the profile I want, the only other thing I need to know is, is it sturdy? I have questioned a free floating fore since it attaches only @ the upper and I will be carrying it through the woods, banging against brush, trees etc. Hogue has a good name but I don't know if that extends to AR parts. Anyone else have an input? Think I have settled on Pegasus for the upper and BCG but don't have the money yet so still have the time to change my mind.


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## MrG

locolobo said:


> ..... Mr G, seems you may have experience with the Hogue front end. Since it is the profile I want, the only other thing I need to know is, is it sturdy? I have questioned a free floating fore since it attaches only @ the upper and I will be carrying it through the woods, banging against brush, trees etc. Hogue has a good name but I don't know if that extends to AR parts. Anyone else have an input?....


Sorry, I don't own one but I've coonfingered several with that hand guard. They seem very sturdy but heavy. A free float takes all the stress (trees, limbs, bipods,etc)of whatever you may rest the rifle on off of the barrel. Theoretically it improves accuracy. That being said, all of mine are free floated.


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## locolobo

Yeeha! Check hit the bank today. Gotta go. Gotta lotta s&^t to order.


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## locolobo

Taking longer than I thought it would! Put the AR build on hold while I spent a pile of money on new siding for the house. Then there was the vacation to the Philippines. So now it's time to finish the rifle. Just ordered everything needed to finish. Should be here in a few days. I did forget magazines, and have no ammo yet. Scope will come off one of the other firearms for now, several to choose from. Will be updating soon.


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## muney pit

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/catalog/product/view/id/1239/category/198/ if ya wanna buy some


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## locolobo

Package arrived yesterday Just in time for me to go to work. All contents seem to be there. can't wait for a few minutes to start puttin some of this stuff together. Photos soon


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## gomhar57

I have had really good luck with palmato state armory. I've put a dozen together with no problems. Good luck.


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## rundm

If you have not thought about an up grade on the trigger, do it now. Forget about the rest and get a geissele. It will be the best part you put on the gun. They cost a bit more then some of the rest but they really are worth it.


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## locolobo

It's officially a rifle! I fired 5 rounds through it yesterday to check for function and it worked. No FTF hang-ups or hang fire. Now all I have to do is get optics on it.
Sorry, thought I had a photo here.


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## locolobo

It has been 6 months since my last post. At the time I was trying to figure out how to deal with a new computer when posting photos. I've got it figured out now and will, finally, post up a photo of the finished rifle. As soon as I get home.


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## locolobo

OK, so trying to post up a photo of the finished rifle


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## Jungle_Jim

Sweet!


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## muney pit

Nice, i like that kind of forend tube sometimes. Its alot easier on the hands than a quad rail. Usally smaller to. They do heat up more but thats only after a mag of rapid fire. I drilled a sling swivel hole and put a qd under neith the front and called mine good. Be sure to post how she shoots once ya get some glass or what ever on top


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## locolobo

OK, this is the real finished product. Burris 3 x 9 Full field, extended slide latch and 3.5# CMC trigger have been added after the last post.


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