# LongLiners



## CHA CHING

Looks like all the swordfish BUZZ on 2 Cool has the comm longliners very interested in the swordfish population in the GOM.
Rumor has it is that there are already 2 longliners that just arrived in Galveston gearing up and about to start the desumation of our swordfish population. Others are on their way. I've been told that they will be setting both surface gear and bottom gear. Also been told a few of them are waiting on their permits.
Permit cost is 60K. 10 mile set x 1,000 hooks = 100 x100 lbers at 6.00 per lb = 60K
Means they can pay for that permit in just 1 good set.
Will be sad to see the world class swordfishing gone as quick as it came.
The cycle of life....doesn't seem fair at all.:hairout:


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## Ex Boat Capt. Carp

And this is why I do not report on any thing of significance anymore. Places are getting way to crowded and every body always wants what you have. Other peoples' reports are sure nice to read though. We are living in a very upside down topsy turvy world these days and if the situation can be taken advantage of then by god someone will try to do it. ( Nothing meant on your last post) Strictly for reports of catches at specific places. FISH ON!!!!!!!!


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## Always-Gone-Fishing

Yeah, we've seen several the last few trips and we see them often in Venice so we'll see what the future holds. Hopefully, this storm forming helps with some reef formation.

Sad to see but bound to happen,

AGF


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## Chase This!

Yep. Enjoy it while you can. The fishery will be hurt BAD. And not just swords. Last one we saw said "ahhh we got white marrin, blue marrin, sailfeesh"

NOT good.


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## LJeanGrayless

BELIEVE NOTHING OF WHAT YOU HEAR AND ONLY HALF OF WHAT YOU SEE...AND LISTEN TO CAPT CARP


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## anglersurf131

There are already longline boats all over the place they have sets all over the place from intersection to the gardens. Idk why they would be setting so many set inside of 400ft though. But the boats have been thick out there this year.

Www.texasbluewatersafaris.com
Spearfishing safaris.


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## ssteel069

Keep posting! We will not have any fish in the gulf!


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## CHA CHING

The longliners that are out there now are just tile and grouper fishing.
The sword liners are coming soon. Believe me, my sources are pretty solid. They fish alot.
He told me how they longline fish in 1800 ft of water on the bottom. Pretty interesting.


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## Ono Loco

yep - about time to trade the Contender for a pontoon with a pit...


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## snapper slapper lures

Just plain sad


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## Little-bit

Man it's all 2cools fault.


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## broadonrod

CHA CHING said:


> Looks like all the swordfish BUZZ on 2 Cool has the comm longliners very interested in the swordfish population in the GOM.
> Rumor has it is that there are already 2 longliners that just arrived in Galveston gearing up and about to start the desumation of our swordfish population. Others are on their way. I've been told that they will be setting both surface gear and bottom gear. Also been told a few of them are waiting on their permits.
> Permit cost is 60K. 10 mile set x 1,000 hooks = 100 x100 lbers at 6.00 per lb = 60K
> Means they can pay for that permit in just 1 good set.
> Will be sad to see the world class swordfishing gone as quick as it came.
> The cycle of life....doesn't seem fair at all.:hairout:


Dude there has been longliners out there for ever.... There are 29 boats longlining the gulf this year already from my sorce.... There is 1 bouy gear guy and he paid 30,000.00 for his permit..h:.... I was offered the same deal but enjoy the sport to much to become a comercial swordfisherman :cheers:... Thousands swords are cought in the gulf each year and October when all the weekend worriers quit fishing is when they start fishing the most... Tilefish, grouper, sharks and swords have been getting hundreds of miles of hooks set on them every year and I havn't found it to be a problem catching any of them...I don't like longliners anymore than the next guy... But the fact is They have been wacking the swords here for years and Ill bet you we catch more next season than this season







I will not throw the blame at the comercial boats if I stop catching fish







....Heck maybe they will clean out some of the sharks... another thing is if they lay their gear on the bottom I think they will catch nothing but HAIK LOL study before you speak....It will all be ok :cheers: Capt. Ahab


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## Swells

Right, there are two kinds of longline boats. One fishes on the Continental Shelf for reef fish in less than 100 fathoms using about 5-10 miles of bottom cable such as for snapper, grouper, and tiles. The other fishes off the Continental Shelf in well over 100 fathoms using about 10-30 miles pelagic surface mainline such as for swordfish and tuna. Surface longlines can actually be set very, very deep but the line does not rest on the bottom ... they just put more belly in the line between the highflier float sticks. 

The problem with the pelagic longliners is that they catch so much non-targeted species such as marlin, shark, bluefin tuna, and turtles. Being that there are only about 30 to 40 pelagic longliners fishing the the US Gulf, I doubt there is much fishing pressure but the by-catch is nothing short of incredible. To get one ton of swordfish one might have to throw away 2 to 4 tons of by-catch. I am no biologist or oceanographer but there's probably a reason why marlin have been seen in less numbers over the last decade or two off Texas.

By the way, it is very hard for a captain to gear up for both bottom and pelagic longline trips. Bottom longlines require a bunch of 6/0 circle hooks and a bunch of weights such as cannon balls, and no buoys are needed. Pelagic longlines require 18/0 circle hooks (no more than 10 degree offset) and most "green stick" them as well ... you can tell a pelagic longliner by their orange buoy sticks as well. Two very different kinds of boats and most are based in Florida, to come here to potlick off Texas. A.P. Bell out of Cortez FL used to be big in the business, for example. Their late summer run brings a bunch of boats to the POC area. It's like clockwork every year.

The swords will be fine IMHO - but they catch everything else too. They'll keep a few Mako shark if they have an incidental shark permit because that sells (some sell it as fake swordfish). When the cold fronts start coming down in November, they will all leave the area, and be gone until next year. I should imagine they're looking at a couple of week long trips off of Texas with a week in between runs, which is pretty much how it works depending on the captain and if the crew is in jail or not.


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## Ex Boat Capt. Carp

Yup the longliners have been out there way before myself. I was just saying, nothing more. I have seen it in the Daily News some times when I used to send in a report I would tell them something completely different just so we could watch everyone head over that way and go fishing. Ya I know I am a sicko, sometimes I go to the Yacht basin on weekends just to watch the show at the boat ramp. Easily amused!!! FISH ON!!!!


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## luna sea II

pelagic longliners have been hitting the western gulf hard for years. most of the boats over here either go your way or far to the southeast. 


Scott


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## CoastalOutfitters

This was bound to happen, nmfs is prob. licking their chops over this as well.

1 sword/vessel retained for recs. or some such hoo-ha, don't be suprised if they try for it.


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## Always-Gone-Fishing

luna sea II said:


> pelagic longliners have been hitting the western gulf hard for years. most of the boats over here either go your way or far to the southeast.
> 
> Scott


Scott, we'll trade you one Big E and raise your two longliners.

D


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## broadonrod

CoastalOutfitters said:


> This was bound to happen, nmfs is prob. licking their chops over this as well.
> 
> 1 sword/vessel retained for recs. or some such hoo-ha, don't be suprised if they try for it.


 First off is the gov. doesn't need any of us to figure out how to cut limits... One sword per vessel would effect about 1 out of 1000 boats fishing the gulf... Long liners that try to fish the bottom daytime swords here will just *loose their gear*







.... If they set their gear in 1800' of water the curent will foul them and snag them... There is alot more to catching swords 1800' deep than 100-200' under the surface... If they do ever make it one per boat just keep 300lbers and one will fill your freezer for the year... I think 2cool has been a great place for fisherman to get together and discus catches,techniques, and stories.... I have recieved hundreds of PMs and emails about people trying to figure things out and try to post good info for the fishermen... If you think posting on 2cool is the problem with limits and reason there are longliners in the gulf you must start looking out side the box... Here is your answer to swords and it sucks but its the law... I---WE-- have to report every swordfish to the government!!!!! Were we cought it, live or dead bait, date, time, size, and so on... Who do they tell?







*Mont has a great site here that has helped alot of people to learn alot about hunting and fishing....* The regulations are going to be what they are going to be... Not 2cools fault... When they do come in October I hope they catch all the 100lbers so they quit beating up my bait....







Get Tight Suckas !!!


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## fishNwithfish

and this is the reason i catch and release everything i can!!! this is sad!!!


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## CHA CHING

My intent wasn't to p!ss anyone off here. Two cool is a great place to learn. I've learned a tremendous amount from you Brett and have only briefly met you once. I have learned your one h3ll of a fisherman, probably the best sword fisherman in the Gulf.
I'ts just frustrating to me that every aspect of commercial fishing gets the nod over recs. We can wait a lifetime for the fishery to get right and they reap the rewards. 
I am just passing along info that I was told by a friend that comm LLers are coming here in bunches. 
Bret you know, how many of the 29 boats are specifically targeting swords off the Texas coast? I've only seen two, one was way to the east last December and one was in shore of Auger tuna fishing last fall.


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## broadonrod

CHA CHING said:


> My intent wasn't to p!ss anyone off here. Two cool is a great place to learn. I've learned a tremendous amount from you Brett and have only briefly met you once. I have learned your one h3ll of a fisherman, probably the best sword fisherman in the Gulf.
> I'ts just frustrating to me that every aspect of commercial fishing gets the nod over recs. We can wait a lifetime for the fishery to get right and they reap the rewards.
> I am just passing along info that I was told by a friend that comm LLers are coming here in bunches.
> Bret you know, how many of the 29 boats are specifically targeting swords off the Texas coast? I've only seen two, one was way to the east last December and one was in shore of Auger tuna fishing last fall.


 Man tfrom what I hear the longlining is going to be business as usuall.. I try to keep up with as much as I can through the grape vine and make no mistake there are comercial guys hitting us up... From what I hear many longliners are """ Targeting Swords""" and wacking Tuna as """BYCATCH""" So they say ... I have heard they may be a sword boat and not even looking for swords at all.... Wait till yall start seeing bouy guys dropping hand gear on your favorite spot in the summer then you will get mad !!! Just the few months we fished Florida it made me sick to see the blinking lights everywhere... Its a new world and when the fishing gets harder we will just have to get better at it.... LOL I know what else we can do lets start posting every day about swordfish meat being full of mercury and maybe nobody will want to eat it but me .... :cheers: Capt. Ahab


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## Mont

Personally, I don't think it's any secret that [insert species] fishing off Texas has always been good. I have fished all the way around the Gulf, to Florida and up Florida on the Atlantic side, and there's just not any comparison. The biggest obstacle to fishing off the upper Texas coast has always been the distance to the fish. We run 120 miles to find water off the Atlantic side of Florida that's within 20 miles. The difference is, the fishing. What needs to go the way of buffalo hunting is commercial fishing, and by commercial, I mean a direct sale of the catch. It's an economical disaster to sell it like that when guys like Brett and the rest of us will gladly spend 10 to 30 times the money to catch the same fish that commercial fishermen sell for pennies on the dollar. It's just a waste of a public resource to sell it like we do now.


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## Swells

> Long liners that try to fish the bottom daytime swords here will just *loose their gear*


Bingo, give that man a free beer!

Many don't understand pelagic longlines but the fact is, they try to fish the thermocline which varies between 100 and 600 feet deep at most. Many swordfish lines are set at about 50 feet deep and it's the opposite for tuna lines, which are typically sunk way down deeper. You'd think 1,300 pound test mainline would be OK way deep but with so many ganglion hooks and clips, anything much deeper would bust it and that's some very expensive gear. Try to imagine several tons of huge fish on one fishing line instead of a couple snapper, grouper, and tiles, maybe 500 pounds at most. The mainline is so sensitive to breaking one has to motor the boat and reel in the slack because any tension would bust it off.

Ain't no sword and tuna longliner fishing at 1,800, captain.


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## broadonrod

Mont said:


> Personally, I don't think it's any secret that [insert species] fishing off Texas has always been good. I have fished all the way around the Gulf, to Florida and up Florida on the Atlantic side, and there's just not any comparison. The biggest obstacle to fishing off the upper Texas coast has always been the distance to the fish. We run 120 miles to find water off the Atlantic side of Florida that's within 20 miles. The difference is, the fishing. What needs to go the way of buffalo hunting is commercial fishing, and by commercial, I mean a direct sale of the catch. It's an economical disaster to sell it like that when guys like Brett and the rest of us will gladly spend 10 to 30 times the money to catch the same fish that commercial fishermen sell for pennies on the dollar. It's just a waste of a public resource to sell it like we do now.


 Very well put my brother ....


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## Miles2Fish

Eventually the best meet haul you can find will be from the deer stand......plenty of pigs and white tails......


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## luna sea II

Always-Gone-Fishing said:


> Scott, we'll trade you one Big E and raise your two longliners.
> 
> D


haha David I'll take the big E all day long after reading thier last fishing report doesn't look like they are much danger to the fishery at all...

seriously though there seems to be a healthy population of swordfish out there, enough for the recs and commercials to share.

Scott


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## LSUBigL

So has anyone analyzed the impact of recreational fishing vs. Commercial? I gotta think our total dollars spent is more than 10 times what is spent commercial. 

Everything I've seen about commercial guys tells me that they are low-lifes who grew up with their dog eating their homework and other excuses and always finding ways to bend the rules and legitimize it in their mind...and they are all gamblers looking for a big payout for not a lot of work..not the kind of people I want to trust with my fishery.


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## mrsh978

*longlines*

i carry a well equipped tool box with various tools to untangle discovered longlines-plus the bouys make for good target practice-well armed there too.


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## Always-Gone-Fishing

luna sea II said:


> haha David I'll take the big E all day long after reading thier last fishing report doesn't look like they are much danger to the fishery at all...
> 
> seriously though there seems to be a healthy population of swordfish out there, enough for the recs and commercials to share.
> 
> Scott


Por cierto me amigo! That's why you need to get yo *** over here and go out with us and quit waiting for the BB Trap to send an invite







Probably won't be 10 in the evening but will muster up a decent diablo de ***** for our Mud Buddy!

See you soon,
D


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## KevinA

Jeff

This is why we gotta go get ours NOW before they get here!! before its too late... We gotta go ASAP........

I have a Swordfish on my bucket list and I aint getting any younger..
I cant afford to wait any longer....:hairout:

Its GAME ON for Swordfish!!:texasflag


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## broadonrod

KevinA said:


> Jeff
> 
> This is why we gotta go get ours NOW before they get here!! before its too late... We gotta go ASAP........
> 
> I have a Swordfish on my bucket list and I aint getting any younger..
> I cant afford to wait any longer....:hairout:
> 
> Its GAME ON for Swordfish!!:texasflag


Cought and released on single hook longline 80w...:cheers: Think that would be about uh uh uh... 7.00 x 250lbs= 1750.00 = mad longliner..LOL


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## BIG PAPPA

*TARGET PRACTICE VIDEO*

Everybody send me pictures of Blinking Beacons exploding with buckshot and I'll have the wife make a video of it. Those Marine shotguns are well worth the money. 
Commercials need to go. And we all need to help their decision to leave. The GOM can get real Expensive knowing information such as this. I hope all of us Recs can agree on that.


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## broadonrod

BIG PAPPA said:


> Everybody send me pictures of Blinking Beacons exploding with buckshot and I'll have the wife make a video of it. Those Marine shotguns are well worth the money.
> Commercials need to go. And we all need to help their decision to leave. The GOM can get real Expensive knowing information such as this. I hope all of us Recs can agree on that.


 Shot guns are for flying fish..







:cheers:...


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## broadonrod

BIG PAPPA said:


> Everybody send me pictures of Blinking Beacons exploding with buckshot and I'll have the wife make a video of it. Those Marine shotguns are well worth the money.
> Commercials need to go. And we all need to help their decision to leave. The GOM can get real Expensive knowing information such as this. I hope all of us Recs can agree on that.


 Ok it will make a better video !!!!! BOOM !!!!


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## CHA CHING

broadonrod said:


> Shot guns are for flying fish..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :cheers:...


Everyone needs them a "longline removal kit" on their boat for sure!!


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## aggieangler09

I'm stocking up on release knives lol


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## Swells

Y'all ain't heard about marine grade stainless steel shotguns, rifles, and pistols, there's some interesting but slightly expensive stuff. Myself I like the .22/.25 caliber "bang sticks" that were activated by pushing against something like a fish's head, side firing. Boom. Much easier coming over the transom. Haven't seen those in many years, those bang sticks ... dammit.


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## adamcox

*What are the penalties for destroying their sets*

Anyone interested in forming a gulf long liner Milita? Especially against ships of foreign points?


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## CHA CHING

Guys please please understand. I didn't post this to make friends or enemy's. I'm relaying a message that I heard today after talking to a commercial friend. Sure longliners are here but according to his info many more are coming.
Maybe the gulf sword population is better now than it has ever been in our lifetime maybe it's not. I have no idea because I'm not educated enough on the subject. All I know is it seems like way more are being caught now than ever before. I call it a rejuvenated fishery, kind of like the current snapper fishery. Fisherman seem to go where the fish are, especially the fisherman that fish for money.


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## fishingtwo

I blame the federal gobernment


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## broadonrod

KevinA said:


> Jeff
> 
> This is why we gotta go get ours NOW before they get here!! before its too late... We gotta go ASAP........
> 
> I have a Swordfish on my bucket list and I aint getting any younger..
> I cant afford to wait any longer....:hairout:
> 
> Its GAME ON for Swordfish!!:texasflag


 I think your right the everyday fisherman will not be allowed to catch the comercial guys fish much longer.... There is already a limit on swords and they already want to know where how and how many... Just setting it up for a stop sign... I turn them lose for a longliner to catch now in my opinion... Thats just how it is... I can turn them all lose and my kid prob won't be able to keep one anyway...







( YOU CAN FISH BUT LET THEM GO SO MORE GUYS BUY PERMIT LOL !!! Just how it is... Think Ill start keeping my limit.... grilled Swordfish, beer, and bs at the dock for all..... LOL


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## Outcast

Yes sir! We are our own worst enemy! All the reports are just good info...kinda like the wahoo at the Gardens. It's a calling card. People need to learn to be semi silent I guess... 



ssteel069 said:


> Keep posting! We will not have any fish in the gulf!


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## fishtruck

Lots of us run at night, if something gets caught in our running gear we HAVE to cut it out. Mater O fact we run allot during the day too and don't pay too much attention??? So things get caught on running gear then too.


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## Konan

broadonrod said:


> When they do come in October I hope they catch all the 100lbers so they quit beating up my bait....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Get Tight Suckas !!!


I am ready for a grander!

24 hrs on a reel will be a cake walk!!


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## BIG PAPPA

*Help*

Does anybody know how many 12ga. Slugs it takes to sink a Longline Beacon? Bass Pro Has them on sale and wanna be sure to get Plenty for 8-10 Beacon Funerals.
Also, Do Flying Fish Prefer 7 or 8 shot?


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## jgale

BIG PAPPA said:


> Also, Do Flying Fish Prefer 7 or 8 shot?


I prefer to split the difference and go with 7.5 shot 

I look at it as staying in tune and getting ready for dove season!


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## Swells

Before y'all get to stocking up on contraband M-80s to make longliner bombs, consider that there are several proposals to restrict longliners in the GOM. It's mainly to prevent the take of bluefin and pelagic shark, but swords are now getting some attention as well. Here, even evil groups known as Pew are your friends because they want a September-April ban on a good part of the deepwaters of the EEZ, and further restrict the longliner tonnage. I have followed it much, but supposedly Congress has been working on bills since the year 2000 when swordfish became seriously over-fished. I believe the only recent area opened up was on the Atlantic side, which was probably a mistake. 

A petition to restrict commercial swordfishing to single hooks and bandits and not use longlines would be a good thing. Harpoons are more often used on the east and west coasts but the single fish rule seems to be a good thing. Might be worth a try, and I'd like to hear what RFA has to say. While most of us are more concerned with the red snapper, what is happening offshore is to me even worse - they'll run the YFT and sword populations into the ground, and well as the tiles. When NMFS discovers that, they'll close the fishery to everyone. Best to head this off at the pass before it gets out of hand.


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## RSN

fishtruck said:


> Lots of us run at night, if something gets caught in our running gear we HAVE to cut it out. Mater O fact we run allot during the day too and don't pay too much attention??? So things get caught on running gear then too.


It would be hard to do any kind of surface longlining north of the floaters because of all the traffic...crew boats running to rigs, cargo ships in the shipping lanes, plus all the rec guys like us. But then again, there's plenty of ocean for them to find what they are looking for.


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## J_Philla

LSUBigL said:


> So has anyone analyzed the impact of recreational fishing vs. Commercial? I gotta think our total dollars spent is more than 10 times what is spent commercial.
> 
> Everything I've seen about commercial guys tells me that they are low-lifes who grew up with their dog eating their homework and other excuses and always finding ways to bend the rules and legitimize it in their mind...and they are all gamblers looking for a big payout for not a lot of work..not the kind of people I want to trust with my fishery.


 Speaking as a commercial fisherman i can assure you were not all low life scum, i graduated top of my class , even went to college.....Also come do the job i do before you call us lazy, it takes a special type of person to do what i do, (I mean mowing grass is hard though.......) As a rec charter/commercial i always hear everyone whine about commercial, or the charter for hire industry, but the fact is there is so much internal bickering between everyone no one ever gets on the same page, which is the gov is screwing everyone!!!!!! Open your eyes *everyone* we all want the same TO FISH AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE...........

sorry if i offended anyone!!!!!
Capt Josh


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## Chase This!

J_Philla said:


> Open your eyes *everyone* we all want the same TO FISH AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE...........


Uhhhhh, no we do not. You want to catch and kill as many fish as possible to make as much money as you possibly can. Not exactly what I'm after when I go fishing.

Don't sit here and tell me we are equals. This should get good. :rotfl:

IBTL


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## lmgreeri

*No worries*

When all the other fish are gone we can all become tarpon fishermen...nobody wants to eat them so there will never be a commercial market. saved by the silver king!


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## BIG PAPPA

*MY TAKE ON IT ALL*

Josh, Don't think anyone Hates the Commercial's here, And we don't call anyone Low Life Scum either. They/We/The Rec's, Just feel It's Time to start CUTTING the Commercial's Take/TAC on all Species in the GOM. It's purely Simple Math here. We spend 20-30 times MORE per Pound we take than Any Commercial ever thought about. And we do NOT profit from our take, The Economy does. last but not least, it is OUR resource more than any companies Period.


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## J_Philla

Chase This! said:


> Uhhhhh, no we do not. You want to catch and kill as many fish as possible to make as much money as you possibly can. Not exactly what I'm after when I go fishing.
> 
> Don't sit here and tell me we are equals. This should get good. :rotfl:
> 
> IBTL


yea buddy we are all equal, i cater to the rest of the country fishing that doesn't own a boat. that makes me equal in the recreational stand point, what affects one affects all. I don't catch and kill everything that swims, most guys have no idea that the commercial industry has quotas and catch limits for the different species that are fished. Also I'm not here to stir up a bee hive, once again this shows how a statement can lead to a huge argument over nothing....If u want to argue about something lets argue over why we dont get any fall snapper dates this year!!!!if u dislike me because i commercial fish, then im sorry but i have made my living off the water my whole life, as such i deeply have a respect for the water and the ecosystem i fish in.... As a third generation fisherman i believe that it is my right to continue this job that my grandfather and dad have passed down...God Bless the USA!!!!!!


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## Swells

Well y'all do seem to be a bit prejudiced against commercial fishermen, it is no lie. And being the recreational fishermen you are, you want all those fish to yourself - go ahead and admit it that you don't want the commercial or charter guys to have any. If it was your way, all good kinds of fish would be designated as "sports fish" that cannot be commercial bought or sold. 

The commercial fisherman doesn't think like that. Like a farmer, they know if they over-fish this year, there will be no profit next year. If there was some blame to be passed around, the NMFS did a very poor job at predicting the fishery stocks and it's pretty much a fact that NMFS actually promoted longline gear for many, many years. I am not defending the commercial side as much as saying that they, too, have "fishing rights." 

There is only one state in the Union that has fishing rights in its constitution and that would be Alaska. Texas and the Fed, no. So the fight over natural resources such as fish has now become a brutal one, with each side accusing each other of alleged atrocities, being greedy "sea rapers," and worse. You're just playng into the hands of the NMFS, who are totally delighted that we attack each other so vehemently. 

Carry on, but know that what you're suggesting just ain't gonna fly.


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## hilton

*swordfish*

To blame 2Cool for reporting the catches is ludicrous.

You are *REQUIRED* to have a HMS Permit if you land a swordfish, and you are *REQUIRED* to report when/where you caught it to the NMFS. I can guarantee you that the commercial fishermen are in close contact with the NMFS regarding this type of information since it is *REQUIRED* by law.

*Maybe some enterprising CFH Captains here on 2Cool will be able to buy commercial permits to be able to take his buddies out to catch some swords after the NMFS closes the season down on us using some bogus, contrived data as they already have with our red snapper.*

Hey, it would come out of the commercial ACL, so no *WHINING* from you recs.

Who wouldn't want to go fishing anytime they want for the priviledge to catch a sword, especially if you have to lay out $7/pound on top of your trip expenses?

Oh yeah, we CAN currently go fishing for swords anytime we want - and they are FREE!

Capt. Thomas J. Hilton


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## Kenner21

Well y'all do seem to be a bit prejudiced against commercial fishermen, it is no lie. And being the recreational fishermen you are, you want all those fish to yourself - go ahead and admit it that you don't want the commercial or charter guys to have any. If it was your way, all good kinds of fish would be designated as "sports fish" that cannot be commercial bought or sold. 

Not true, most recreational fisherman just want fair access to the resource. It is a public resource after all. I have much more of an issue with CFH guys trying to slice off a piece of the rec TAC all for themselves in the name of the all mighty dollar. Commercial fishermen and the CFH guys have a lot more in common as user groups than Recs' and CFHs'. Commercial fishermen and CFH guys' both fish a public resouce for profit. If CFH guys want a slice of anyones pie it should come from the commercial TAC not the Recs'. 

Just curious the federal government is saying recreational fishermen are catching 4.5 million pounds of snapper in 48 days. How long is it taking the commercial guys to catch their 51 percent?


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## aggieangler09

Chase This! said:


> Uhhhhh, no we do not. You want to catch and kill as many fish as possible to make as much money as you possibly can. Not exactly what I'm after when I go fishing.
> 
> Don't sit here and tell me we are equals. This should get good. :rotfl:
> 
> IBTL


I agree..hell will freeze over before you find a sword or snapper commercial outfit that actually cares about sustainability of a species. What a joke. If you don't agree just look at what happened in the 80's. LL boats figured out there were swordfish here and they raped the population to the point of near extinction in the gulf. And thats just swordfish. The only reason we instinctively and innately hate what commercial fishermen do is because y'all never give us any other reason to think otherwise or even give you the benefit of the doubt. Its always the same game. Find a healthy fish population, kill as many as possible and then move on, move to where the fish are next and repeat. Unfortunately we can't do that as recs. We have to stay put and sift through the wreckage like a hit and run accident just plowed through our waters.


----------



## Chase This!

Boom!!!


----------



## edgarallanBRO

Take out the longlines and electric reels and start cranking for your money. That's my opinion..


----------



## Crossroads

No Chompers!!


----------



## The Last Mango

LSUBigL said:


> So has anyone analyzed the impact of recreational fishing vs. Commercial? I gotta think our total dollars spent is more than 10 times what is spent commercial.
> 
> Everything I've seen about commercial guys tells me that they are low-lifes who grew up with their dog eating their homework and other excuses and always finding ways to bend the rules and legitimize it in their mind...and they are all gamblers looking for a big payout for not a lot of work..not the kind of people I want to trust with my fishery.[/QUOTE
> 
> A Low life commercial fishermen I am. I graduated at the top of my high school class, I have BBA(accounting degree) from Texas A&M, and my Masters in Finance from the University of Houston. 2nd generation(skipped one) commercial fishermen. What ever you do, DON"T turst me!:help:


----------



## crawfishking

It doesn't matter if your you are a stand up resource raper or a low life scum resource raper! It doesn't matter what kind of person you are! The fact is that there is but only one outcome for wild populations that are commercially harvested: FAILURE! How many times must this be brought up? Passenger pigeon (extinct), plains bison, waterfowl/punt gunning, atlantic cod, bluefin tuna, red drum......
Everybody's seen the old videos of the pole boats, guys lined up on one side of the boat pulling tuna out by the thousands. Has anybody ever seen that in the last 50 years? I don't know anybody who has. Why? Because we are fishing them out of existence!
ANY time there is a concern about population health the commercial catch should be the first to go. I can't believe we talk about this! 

I wish I could see herds of bison, lets hope future generations don't say the same thing about populations we take for granted.


----------



## Swells

aggieangler09 said:


> I agree..hell will freeze over before you find a sword or snapper commercial outfit that actually cares about sustainability of a species. What a joke. If you don't agree just look at what happened in the 80's. LL boats figured out there were swordfish here and they raped the population to the point of near extinction in the gulf. And thats just swordfish. The only reason we instinctively and innately hate what commercial fishermen do is because y'all never give us any other reason to think otherwise or even give you the benefit of the doubt. Its always the same game. Find a healthy fish population, kill as many as possible and then move on, move to where the fish are next and repeat. Unfortunately we can't do that as recs. We have to stay put and sift through the wreckage like a hit and run accident just plowed through our waters.


If a commercial outfit follows all the rules and pays their own way, taxes and all, I fail to see why you have some kind of Biblical problem. Are you one of them Commie anti-capitalists who wants socialized fishing and catch shares? You must not be no Libertarian. Oh well, I say it's best to focus your ire at the federal guv'mint, not our brothers and sisters in the trade.


----------



## aggieangler09

Swells said:


> If a commercial outfit follows all the rules and pays their own way, taxes and all, I fail to see why you have some kind of Biblical problem. Are you one of them Commie anti-capitalists who wants socialized fishing and catch shares? You must not be no Libertarian. Oh well, I say it's best to focus your ire at the federal guv'mint, not our brothers and sisters in the trade.


Dude you need to open your eyes. Brothers and sister in trade?? are you kidding me?? You actually believe we should try to be one big happy family when half that family gets to willfuly have their way with a fish population that was once decimated BY THEM to near zero? Not to mention the incredible amount of LL by-catch that occurs, both incidental and non. Just because they can pay enough money for permits and licenses does not make what they do a good thing for this ocean. Just look at the past. When has a long line operation ever come in the the gulf and done anything good for this fishery, not just the rec fishery but THE ENTIRE GULF FISHERY. And lastly to think my opinion has anything to do with political views is quite laughable. All I want as well as the majority of rec fishermen in texas is a healthy, sustainable fish population...and if history tells us one thing, Long liners are close to, if not the number one enemy to that goal. I am all for someone making money by catching fish, but if they do it in a way which time and time again has proven to destroy fish stocks then i'll be against it every time. You can't pander to both parties on this issue. You want swordfish populations to remain sustainable? Then you can't have long liners. Thats a fact. And one more fact, history repeats its self, time and time again.


----------



## Trouthappy

I was visiting a charterboat captain once in Galveston, back in the late 1980s. He was having baby swordfish for dinner. His friend, a longline captain, was always bringing home little 10-pound swordfish "pups" that don't survive getting hooked on a longline. It was like cooking a redfish in the oven. Pretty disgusting, that fish could have grown to 1,000 pounds if it was for longliners. The bycatch alone from longliners is sickening---seabirds, turtles, some of the last bluefin tuna, various non-targeted species. These dumb brutes crewing on the longline boats couldn't care less.


----------



## B_Reid

crawfishking said:


> It doesn't matter if your you are a stand up resource raper or a low life scum resource raper! It doesn't matter what kind of person you are! The fact is that there is but only one outcome for wild populations that are commercially harvested: FAILURE! How many times must this be brought up? Passenger pigeon (extinct), plains bison, waterfowl/punt gunning, atlantic cod, bluefin tuna, red drum......
> Everybody's seen the old videos of the pole boats, guys lined up on one side of the boat pulling tuna out by the thousands. Has anybody ever seen that in the last 50 years? I don't know anybody who has. Why? Because we are fishing them out of existence!
> ANY time there is a concern about population health the commercial catch should be the first to go. I can't believe we talk about this!
> 
> I wish I could see herds of bison, lets hope future generations don't say the same thing about populations we take for granted.


Well put Crawfishking. Anyone have pictures of the longliners while pulling in their lines with the unwanted being discarded.


----------



## High Seas Drifter

aggieangler09 said:


> Dude you need to open your eyes. Brothers and sister in trade?? are you kidding me?? You actually believe we should try to be one big happy family when half that family gets to willfuly have their way with a fish population that was once decimated BY THEM to near zero? Not to mention the incredible amount of LL by-catch that occurs, both incidental and non. Just because they can pay enough money for permits and licenses does not make what they do a good thing for this ocean. Just look at the past. When has a long line operation ever come in the the gulf and done anything good for this fishery, not just the rec fishery but THE ENTIRE GULF FISHERY. And lastly to think my opinion has anything to do with political views is quite laughable. All I want as well as the majority of rec fishermen in texas is a healthy, sustainable fish population...and if history tells us one thing, Long liners are close to, if not the number one enemy to that goal. I am all for someone making money by catching fish, but if they do it in a way which time and time again has proven to destroy fish stocks then i'll be against it every time. You can't pander to both parties on this issue. You want swordfish populations to remain sustainable? Then you can't have long liners. Thats a fact. And one more fact, history repeats its self, time and time again.


If something is legal and profitable... somebody is going to do it.

It's a fact. Somebody without the same belief system or values as us will fill the void and PROFIT to the maximum allowed by law.

So where does that leave us?

Government Regulation is responsible. Regulations need to be based on sound scientific principles and must be measurable and enforceable. You can't rely on people to "do the right thing"... it never will work. Ever.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
On a separate note, I think most of the people talking about sabotage were joking... but for the few that may have been serious-

First, what they are doing is LEGAL. If you have a problem, you need to try and make that ILLEGAL.

Keep in mind their (longliner) situation vs. ours (rec). They are fishing for a living.. putting food on table. We are out on weekends, drinking beer, snagging a couple fish completely in spite of ourselves. In other words, they do this to live... we do it with completely disposable income.

-HSD, 
your resident devil's advocate


----------



## broadonrod

crawfishking said:


> It doesn't matter if your you are a stand up resource raper or a low life scum resource raper! It doesn't matter what kind of person you are! The fact is that there is but only one outcome for wild populations that are commercially harvested: FAILURE! How many times must this be brought up? Passenger pigeon (extinct), plains bison, waterfowl/punt gunning, atlantic cod, bluefin tuna, red drum......
> Everybody's seen the old videos of the pole boats, guys lined up on one side of the boat pulling tuna out by the thousands. Has anybody ever seen that in the last 50 years? I don't know anybody who has. Why? Because we are fishing them out of existence!
> ANY time there is a concern about population health the commercial catch should be the first to go. I can't believe we talk about this!
> 
> *I wish I could see herds of bison*, lets hope future generations don't say the same thing about populations we take for granted.


* Nobody saved me a buffalo!!!* Guess Ill start packing more ice...:cheers: At least we can let the little ones go







... Capt. Ahab


----------



## capttravis

You beat me to that one Brett...lol


----------



## LSUBigL

You know, I think I've gotten tired of hunting the traditional way...I'm gonna make a string of land mines, find a good spot with lots of tracks and lay them all down with trip wires. Then I'll come back the next day and find all the dead carcasses....i'm sure some of them will be deer and hogs...and for the rest of the stuff...who cares? The vultures will eat it so it's not "wasted" right?

Maybe I was a bit harsh in lumping in ALL commercial fisherman as low-lifes, but there are WAY to many documented cases of commercials breaking the rules to convince me that a SERIOUS contingent of the population isn't poaching and failing to report accurate numbers (remember what happened with all the Louisiana shrimpers who were mad because they were told they would get reimbursed by BP if they showed their tax return and all admitted to selling a ton of it for cash?).

Maybe if the commercial guys would get serious about ratting each other out for breaking the rules then you guys could get a better reputation....until then, I'm going with the guilty-until-proven-innocent mindset about your entire industry.


----------



## LSUBigL

J_Philla said:


> yea buddy we are all equal, i cater to the rest of the country fishing that doesn't own a boat. that makes me equal in the recreational stand point, what affects one affects all. I don't catch and kill everything that swims, most guys have no idea that the commercial industry has quotas and catch limits for the different species that are fished. Also I'm not here to stir up a bee hive, once again this shows how a statement can lead to a huge argument over nothing....If u want to argue about something lets argue over why we dont get any fall snapper dates this year!!!!if u dislike me because i commercial fish, then im sorry but i have made my living off the water my whole life, as such i deeply have a respect for the water and the ecosystem i fish in.... As a third generation fisherman i believe that it is my right to continue this job that my grandfather and dad have passed down...God Bless the USA!!!!!!


Please tell us how much money you have personally spent in programs aimed at conservation? Please point me in the direction of the commercial fishing industry conservation association and all that they are doing so that you can hand this beloved craft down to your son/daughter? Prove me wrong...maybe I am.


----------



## poncho n' lefty

hi mom!!!!!


----------



## The Last Mango

LSUBigL said:


> You know, I think I've gotten tired of hunting the traditional way...I'm gonna make a string of land mines, find a good spot with lots of tracks and lay them all down with trip wires. Then I'll come back the next day and find all the dead carcasses....i'm sure some of them will be deer and hogs...and for the rest of the stuff...who cares? The vultures will eat it so it's not "wasted" right?
> 
> Maybe I was a bit harsh in lumping in ALL commercial fisherman as low-lifes, but there are WAY to many documented cases of commercials breaking the rules to convince me that a SERIOUS contingent of the population isn't poaching and failing to report accurate numbers (remember what happened with all the Louisiana shrimpers who were mad because they were told they would get reimbursed by BP if they showed their tax return and all admitted to selling a ton of it for cash?).
> 
> Maybe if the commercial guys would get serious about ratting each other out for breaking the rules then you guys could get a better reputation....until then, I'm going with the guilty-until-proven-innocent mindset about your entire industry.


I am sorry you got beatup in the sandbox as a child, are you a boy named Sue?:fishy:


----------



## Trouthappy

Anybody have a good picture of a Gulf longliner, up close? Either a snapper/grouper longliner boat landing fish, or a swordfish longliner landing pelagic fish. Send me an IM.


----------



## LSUBigL

The Last Mango said:


> I am sorry you got beatup in the sandbox as a child, are you a boy named Sue?:fishy:


So I guess that means you don't have a response to the points I raised about the bad apples in your industry?

I would like to know how often the commercial guys get checked or audited. If the enforcement on commercial is anything like the enforcement on recreational, then there's a ton of opportunity for commercial to bend/break the rules, and that's not acceptible in my opinion.


----------



## angler_joe

Bout time we get a good thread going like this one! I was getting tired of sitting around watching reality TV with my wife........ :birthday2


----------



## Konan

I would be happier reeling in 10 lbs of weight from 2000 ft right now with nothin on the hook then read this. 

Get Tight Sucka! 

If your not educated in a subject, the best people to listen to are the ones who are.


----------



## mako

We found what I can only assume was a bandit longline a mile offshore of East Cerveza a couple weeks back during the Legends tournament. The float was constructed of poured concrete and a long section of unmarked wood..no beacon, no light...it would have not been pretty to hit that thing in the dark.

Has anyone seen something of this nature?


----------



## BIG PAPPA

*Tell Me More*



mako said:


> We found what I can only assume was a bandit longline a mile offshore of East Cerveza a couple weeks back during the Legends tournament. The float was constructed of poured concrete and a long section of unmarked wood..no beacon, no light...it would have not been pretty to hit that thing in the dark.
> 
> Has anyone seen something of this nature?


How Many 12ga slugs did it take to bust it up?


----------



## CHA CHING

LSUBigL said:


> So I guess that means you don't have a response to the points I raised about the bad apples in your industry?
> 
> I would like to know how often the commercial guys get checked or audited. If the enforcement on commercial is anything like the enforcement on recreational, then there's a ton of opportunity for commercial to bend/break the rules, and that's not acceptible in my opinion.


If you want to go fishing for a few days on a commercial snapper boat for 3 or 4 days I can get you a ride. It's really a lot of fun and very interesting. The 3 or 4 friends that I have that own and operate which are 3 of the nicest boats in the Gulf tell me that they get checked by either TP&W or Matt at NMFS EVERY SINGLE TRIP!!!!
They have this thing on top of the boat called a VMS. The government watches them wherever they go. They have to report when they leave the dock. They have to give at least 3 hrs notice as to where and what time their landing will be. The authorities are there waiting for them everytime!!
If they are selling fish under the table they would have to offload to another boat at sea or something.
Why can't you guys understand that the commercial reef fishing sector is absolutley the most accountable group of fisherman in the gulf.

I guess all those low life toothless scum bags I see cleaning 20 lb state water lying thru your ***** cheating the system hypocrit snapper at the dock are no different than the scum bag commercial fisherman you talk about. 
We have a case of a bunch of pots on here calling the kettle black.
Why don't we follow the rules as we work to convince the decision makers that the current policy's are wrong??


----------



## Swells

Trouthappy said:


> Anybody have a good picture of a Gulf longliner, up close? Either a snapper/grouper longliner boat landing fish, or a swordfish longliner landing pelagic fish. Send me an IM.


Got some at the dock, check out this link:

http://www.photolib.noaa.gov/brs/fsind11.htm

You can snoop around for more. By the way, I once crewed on the Rachel Belle, which is in one of the pictures. That's a highliner swordfish boat with a 25 mile longline reel, average trip brings in 30 to 50K gross back in the late 80s. The math kinda stunk though - the boat got a third, and captain got a third, and us poor suckers split whatever was left after paying off all the bills and the outrageous beer tab. Being the noob swamper ain't all it's cracked up to be! You get to be the "master baiter," "the ice hole man," and took the blame for just about anything ... but I have to say it was fun aside from being airborne off the shelf for two days of high water. Every try to club a shark to death while it's sliding across the decks trying to bite everything? :cheers:


----------



## Hotrod

Does anyone know how far out the bluewater is


----------



## broadonrod

Hotrod said:


> Does anyone know how far out the bluewater is


Man if you will head on out and run through the brown water, then past the jetties, then past some rigs, then past some shrimpers, then past a weedline, your now in green water you will find the blue water just the other side of that....:cheers: But don't tell anyone the longliners will be there in the morn if they read this.... Capt. Ahab


----------



## Konan

The longliners took all the bluewater with them as well.


----------



## Swells

Come to think of it, there ain't hardly no more weed lines, neither. The long lines done snagged 'em up up, I guess.


----------



## broadonrod

Wonder how many baby swordfish they kill ?


----------



## broadonrod

Look at the swordfishermens longline .... No swords?


----------



## broadonrod

*Forget the baby sword and turtles keep your kids out of the water !!!!*


----------



## justhookit

Whew. Good thing they didn't snag that seal, goldfish, or flounder!


----------



## Konan

In the first picture I was unaware seagulls dive to great depths to eat squid. Wow. funny pictures capt.


----------



## CHA CHING

broadonrod said:


> Look at the swordfishermens longline .... No swords?


Capt Ahab, you are one funny dude!!!


----------



## Trouthappy

Lots of cool pictures of bycatch from longline boats....we can cover the decimation of sharks and the shark fin trade later...


----------



## CHA CHING

*http://www.orangebeach.ws/moretrophyswordfish.html*

I know this article is a little dated but why can't the people around here in the know push to get something like this done in the Texas Gulf waters?
It would sure solve some of our future problems. Looks to me like Texas and La is the only longline water left?

http://www.orangebeach.ws/moretrophyswordfish.html


----------



## Swells

Konan said:


> In the first picture I was unaware seagulls dive to great depths to eat squid. Wow. funny pictures capt.


I caught a Booby offshore one time. Caught a Pelican inshore too,a real treat. After catching all these birds I said "Frigate" and went on all artificials.


----------



## CHA CHING

NMFS sure takes care of Florida when it comes to longline closures don't they!!
No wonder they are talking about coming here.


----------



## luna sea II

CHA CHING said:


> If you want to go fishing for a few days on a commercial snapper boat for 3 or 4 days I can get you a ride. It's really a lot of fun and very interesting. The 3 or 4 friends that I have that own and operate which are 3 of the nicest boats in the Gulf tell me that they get checked by either TP&W or Matt at NMFS EVERY SINGLE TRIP!!!!
> They have this thing on top of the boat called a VMS. The government watches them wherever they go. They have to report when they leave the dock. They have to give at least 3 hrs notice as to where and what time their landing will be. The authorities are there waiting for them everytime!!
> If they are selling fish under the table they would have to offload to another boat at sea or something.
> Why can't you guys understand that the commercial reef fishing sector is absolutley the most accountable group of fisherman in the gulf.
> I guess all those low life toothless scum bags I see cleaning 20 lb state water lying thru your ***** cheating the system hypocrit snapper at the dock are no different than the scum bag commercial fisherman you talk about.
> We have a case of a bunch of pots on here calling the kettle black.
> Why don't we follow the rules as we work to convince the decision makers that the current policy's are wrong??


X2


----------



## broadonrod

The problem is the people at the dock don't see the thousands of baby swords that come up stiff as a board or gut hooked... They don't see the thousands of 5-15lb yellowfin sinking to the bottom... They don't see the thousands of sharks ,marlin, and sails that come spinning up to the top... I have seen longlines with sails jumping around on them as far as you can see... It sucks.... But what do ya do... Go and b###h ya right... anyway over and out.... Capt. Ahab :cheers:


----------



## The Last Mango

Trouthappy said:


> Lots of cool pictures of bycatch from longline boats....we can cover the decimation of sharks and the shark fin trade later...


 What ever you do......................DO NOT buy fossil fuels, oil spills kill animals!


----------



## The Last Mango

broadonrod said:


> The problem is the people at the dock don't see the thousands of baby swords that come up stiff as a board or gut hooked... They don't see the thousands of 5-15lb yellowfin sinking to the bottom... They don't see the thousands of sharks ,marlin, and sails that come spinning up to the top... I have seen longlines with sails jumping around on them as far as you can see... It sucks.... But what do ya do... Go and b###h ya right... anyway over and out.... Capt. Ahab :cheers:


Brett, no fishery is 100% eco friendly, I mean none. This also goes along with any other type of industry, let's relate to the "roofing" biz. you are in. Some type of pollutant was used to manufacture the shingles, the list goes on and on. One user group will always get their feelings hurt!:cheers:


----------



## fisher__man

I completely disagree about someone being there everytine. I have personally been there when at least a dozen or more boats have come in and no law enforcement was there in the last 6 months and plenty more than that over the last 5 years. Not saying thee are never there but I have never been there when one was there and I have been there quite a few times.



CHA CHING said:


> If you want to go fishing for a few days on a commercial snapper boat for 3 or 4 days I can get you a ride. It's really a lot of fun and very interesting. The 3 or 4 friends that I have that own and operate which are 3 of the nicest boats in the Gulf tell me that they get checked by either TP&W or Matt at NMFS EVERY SINGLE TRIP!!!!
> They have this thing on top of the boat called a VMS. The government watches them wherever they go. They have to report when they leave the dock. They have to give at least 3 hrs notice as to where and what time their landing will be. The authorities are there waiting for them everytime!!
> If they are selling fish under the table they would have to offload to another boat at sea or something.
> Why can't you guys understand that the commercial reef fishing sector is absolutley the most accountable group of fisherman in the gulf.
> 
> I guess all those low life toothless scum bags I see cleaning 20 lb state water lying thru your ***** cheating the system hypocrit snapper at the dock are no different than the scum bag commercial fisherman you talk about.
> We have a case of a bunch of pots on here calling the kettle black.
> Why don't we follow the rules as we work to convince the decision makers that the current policy's are wrong??


----------



## Swells

The Last Mango said:


> Brett, no fishery is 100% eco friendly, I mean none. :cheers:


Hehe, them 30 or 40 longliner boats got like 250 to 600 HP diesels in 6-71, 8-71, similar sized engines, and some twins. They might burn 300 to 900 gallons of fuel on a long trip but nothing like the combined effect of all us sports fishers, annually.

So us recs are like we're *Climate Change City* compared to the nice fellas running a few longliners. And I now you're all a bunch of liberal hippie progressive tree-huggers who are soooo concerned about this pollution and greenhouse gases in the pristine blue ocean waters!

Whups, wrong forum. Never mind.

Y'all go fishing much as you can while you still got some fishing rights left. Personally I wouldn't mess with a longliner because they have cable rated like 700 to 1400 pounds and you could foul a prop or spin a hub - and many of those boys carry a wee bit of ammo if you know what I mean.


----------



## CHA CHING

fisher__man said:


> I completely disagree about someone being there everytine. I have personally been there when at least a dozen or more boats have come in and no law enforcement was there in the last 6 months and plenty more than that over the last 5 years. Not saying thee are never there but I have never been there when one was there and I have been there quite a few times.


If you ever seeva commercial boat offloading after 6:00 pm and before 6:00 am call 
409 338-8193. Matt Clark NMFS field officer.
Yea maybe not every time but you never know when they will and when they won't.
Your a commercial fisherman, before you leave the dock you call in, this is IFQ account number xxxxxx leaving whatever port for a commercial trip.
It's 3 o'clock a couple days later and your heading in. Get on the sat phone, call in : this is IFQ acct number xxxxx, I will be offloading at 6:00 pm at acme seafood in wherever Texas I have approx 200# of red snapper. You get to your destination at 5:30. Do not tie up until 6:00. The leos are watching your exact position the entire time on their phone or iPad. You get to the dock at 6:01 and no leos there? you had no idea if they would be there or not.
Now you have to get on your computer or phone and log into your IFQ acct and deduct the weight from your acct, only if your a federal dealer. If your not you must offload at an authorized dealers location. You may not transfer fish in any way but that boat. If you have a substantial amount of fish they will be there waiting. 
If you get there early then big trouble. You can only offload between 6:00 am and 6:00 pm to give Leo the opportunity to be there during business hours.
I'm sure there are some small time guys with avfew hundred pounds of quotta try to break the rules but there isn't much different in that than 2 or 3 state water rec boats with 6 guys and 4 15 overs each.
The guys that I know that truly make a living catching commercial snapper don't screw around. 
On another note, I talked to Matt Clark at NMFS today and he said that there is only one boat pelagic long lining in the western Gulf. It's a boat out of Louisianna. At least the only legal boat. VMS doesn't lie.


----------



## LSUBigL

And why do you think they have these VMS and control procedures in place? The same reason they put ankle bracelets on criminals on probation/house arrest...they can't be trusted to behave because of their PRIOR track record.

If this stuff works and keeps these guys in line, that's one step in the right direction. The next step is improving harvest tactics to reduce by-catch....still a long way to go.


----------



## CHA CHING

LSUBigL said:


> And why do you think they have these VMS and control procedures in place? The same reason they put ankle bracelets on criminals on probation/house arrest...they can't be trusted to behave because of their PRIOR track record.
> 
> If this stuff works and keeps these guys in line, that's one step in the right direction. The next step is improving harvest tactics to reduce by-catch....still a long way to go.


Like how about keep your FIRST 4 fish for recs and no throw backs at all for comms. If your caught tossing then no more fishing for you.


----------



## LSUBigL

CHA CHING said:


> Like how about keep your FIRST 4 fish for recs and no throw backs at all for comms. If your caught tossing then no more fishing for you.


I'd be fine with that. Does that mean we can keep 4 snapper instead of 2?

Here's a few others:

1) Increased requirements for money derived from both rec and commercial fishing to go toward conservation, artificial reefs, clean-up programs, etc..

2) Changes to the licensing structure...it makes ZERO sense that people who fish 50 times a year pay the same license as a guy who goes out twice. I think day licenses should be about ten bucks and annual licenses should be in the hundreds. For guys who fish enough to warrant buying an expensive annual license, the incremental cost to them on an annual basis is miniscule! I've taken my boat offshore this summer 6 times and spent thousands of dollars in expenses, repairs, gear...I know it's expensive but I wouldn't mind spending a little more if I knew it was going toward conservation.

3) It would never work cause people are dishonest, but I'd be fine with recs having to report their catches and have annual quotas based on license. Some days we hammer them and it would be nice to be able to catch more to make up for those days when you can't find em.


----------



## Swells

I can explain that VMS stuff. The EEZ of the United States is divided up into fishing zones, like "4A" or "S4." This depends on the fishing species, Atlantic lobster and offshore south sector of Texas for shrimp in my example. Off limit areas are carefully watched, believe it or not. We don't have many except for maybe Flower Gardens here. There are more closed areas between Louisiana and Florida. One restricted area is called "Orange Beach" on the map and it looks suspiciously like that huge artificial reef they built off Alabama. Anyway, you can cruise through those zones but you'd better not be potlicking because that's a huge fine for the comms.

But you hi-tech daddies might like the idea. A VMS is nearly the same thing as an AIS used on big freighter ships - you just get the cheaper Class B instead of the premium service. It tells everyone where you are and you can "see" all the other big ships, crewboats, tugs, and other traffic. Pretty cool. Don't know if you can "see" the fishing fleet with those VMS signals though. Lot's of folks use AIS just to make folks aware so they don't run into you, because it's meant for anti-collision purposes.

Saw one service for the i-Pad that was only $99.


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## lmgreeri

*OUCH!!*

After 11 pages my brain hurts! :headknock


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## Mr. Tuffy

AIS receivers are great... but they only let you recieve data, no one can see you. You have to have a transmitter which is more money than just a receiver and you have to have it registered to your vessel... just an FYI.

I always thought the EEZ in our part of the gulf was 200nm, although I've seen long lines just offshore of Gunnison.


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## BoomerK

I hate to hear about this happening. But its like capt. carp said, people are gonna take advantage of whatever they can. I guess all we can do is sit back and see what happens


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## hilton

*IFQs just created 4,882 pounds of red snapper bycatch*



CHA CHING said:


> If you ever seeva commercial boat offloading after 6:00 pm and before 6:00 am call
> 409 338-8193. Matt Clark NMFS field officer.
> Yea maybe not every time but you never know when they will and when they won't.
> Your a commercial fisherman, before you leave the dock you call in, this is IFQ account number xxxxxx leaving whatever port for a commercial trip.
> It's 3 o'clock a couple days later and your heading in. Get on the sat phone, call in : this is IFQ acct number xxxxx, I will be offloading at 6:00 pm at acme seafood in wherever Texas I have approx 200# of red snapper. You get to your destination at 5:30. Do not tie up until 6:00. The leos are watching your exact position the entire time on their phone or iPad. You get to the dock at 6:01 and no leos there? you had no idea if they would be there or not.
> Now you have to get on your computer or phone and log into your IFQ acct and deduct the weight from your acct, only if your a federal dealer. If your not you must offload at an authorized dealers location. You may not transfer fish in any way but that boat. If you have a substantial amount of fish they will be there waiting.
> If you get there early then big trouble. You can only offload between 6:00 am and 6:00 pm to give Leo the opportunity to be there during business hours.
> I'm sure there are some small time guys with avfew hundred pounds of quotta try to break the rules but there isn't much different in that than 2 or 3 state water rec boats with 6 guys and 4 15 overs each.
> The guys that I know that truly make a living catching commercial snapper don't screw around.
> On another note, I talked to Matt Clark at NMFS today and he said that there is only one boat pelagic long lining in the western Gulf. It's a boat out of Louisianna. At least the only legal boat. VMS doesn't lie.


Yeah, Yeah, Yeah.

Whatever happened to that Galveston commercial boat that landed at the dock in Freeport at 4:00 AM a while back with 4,882 pounds of red snapper? Not only did they land outside of 6:00 to 6:00, they supposedly "forgot" to transfer the quota to cover that poundage. To claim that these guys don't "screw around" is ludicrous.

What was the outcome of that case?

Anyone know? NOAA doesn't post the violations anymore from what I can tell, and they don't respond to information requests either.

Capt. Thomas J. Hilton


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## El Sellador

The Comms can land anytime they want. Provided they give the Feds 3hour notice. And its an approved landing location. They have to unload 6am to 6pm. Large fine. You should know this reefer man.


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## Swells

El Sellador said:


> The Comms can land anytime they want. Provided they give the Feds 3hour notice. And its an approved landing location. They have to unload 6am to 6pm. Large fine. You should know this reefer man.


It ain't just the Feds and their notification to unload ... the captain has to schedule unloading with the fish house. Captains will sometimes call different fish houses to check on the price and pick the best one, if they're independents and not boats owned by The Company. The fish house has to agree to buy your fish or you pay to store it and find a buyer yourself. That's a big deal if you come into port with a couple tons of fish. A lot of money changes hands fast, and the fish house acts rather like a bank - you can even arrange the fish house accountant to pay off your crew (they like this because crews often think the captain is trying to cheat them). To make 30 grand a year as a captain, hundreds of thousands changes hands because of high overhead. If you have 5 or 10 boats making good landings, a fish house can be worth millions of dollars. The state and Fed officers know this, and are trained to sniff out corruption, which is notorious "down by the fish docks."

Just like the hundred ways a bartender can steal from a bar, so it goes in the seafood industry. I don't know if that's relevant to the discussion, however. So what? Bankers steal every day, politicians and cops get caught on the take, and I lie through my teeth on my IRS tax forms. To say that all us recreational fishermen are lilly white innocent perfect angels is almost laughable. I keep my own to my own business and worry more about the "bad science and stupid politics" aspect of the recreational fishing rules.


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## CHA CHING

hilton said:


> Yeah, Yeah, Yeah.
> 
> Whatever happened to that Galveston commercial boat that landed at the dock in Freeport at 4:00 AM a while back with 4,882 pounds of red snapper? Not only did they land outside of 6:00 to 6:00, they supposedly "forgot" to transfer the quota to cover that poundage. To claim that these guys don't "screw around" is ludicrous.
> 
> What was the outcome of that case?
> 
> Anyone know? NOAA doesn't post the violations anymore from what I can tell, and they don't respond to information requests either.
> 
> Capt. Thomas J. Hilton


 Tom,

I'll find out just what happened to him and let you know. From what I understood it was an honest mistake of forgetting to put allocation into his boat account. But that's why the system is in place Tom. It's sure better than the derby days!!
It worked flawlesly in this particular case.


----------



## hilton

*IFQs just created 4,882 pounds of red snapper bycatch*

Capt.,
I apologize for my ingrained cyniicism regarding the IFQ program - EDF and their minions take too much credit for the red snapper abundance supposedly due to the implementation of IFQs in the commercial sector.

Total poppycock.

I also have questions regarding the procedure required to transfer quota, either from their personal account or from another ifq owner's account.

Do you transfer quota with a simple phone call or via the internet? What is the procedure? How long does it take?

And *NO!* Our fishing opportunities were *WAAAAY* better prior to EDF's help crafting and implementing the changes to the MSA in 2006 - not even close.

Capt. Thomas J. Hilton


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## Swells

Kinda drifted off the long liner topic I guess, but whatever. Nearly all them snapper boats are bandit boats, hand crank or electric motor. But who cares? They can trade, fight and stab each other about their allocation under the 51 percent red snapper numbers all they want.

Capt. Tom where they started messing with us was the way the come up with the TAC, and the misguided efforts to try to impose the IFQ model on non-commercial sectors. You now that, as well as we all do.

So now what? Winter red snapper down by Mansfield? I heard they stopped the Murphy and Osprey boys from swapping out state-only and federal charter permits! :cheers:


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## The Last Mango

hilton said:


> Capt.,
> I apologize for my ingrained cyniicism regarding the IFQ program - EDF and their minions take too much credit for the red snapper abundance supposedly due to the implementation of IFQs in the commercial sector.
> 
> Total poppycock.
> 
> I also have questions regarding the procedure required to transfer quota, either from their personal account or from another ifq owner's account.
> 
> Do you transfer quota with a simple phone call or via the internet? What is the procedure? How long does it take?
> 
> And *NO!* Our fishing opportunities were *WAAAAY* better prior to EDF's help crafting and implementing the changes to the MSA in 2006 - not even close.
> 
> Capt. Thomas J. Hilton


 We use homing pigeons to carry our "info", works good till' a darn hawk get's em!, then we just guess!:cheers:


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## El Sellador

Reefer Man its all done online. And it does not take long. If you have not seen it here it is. https://ifq.sero.nmfs.noaa.gov/ifqrs/index.cfm


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## hilton

*IFQs just created 4,882 pounds of red snapper bycatch*

So, if you have a laptop with internet access onboard, then you can transfer quota at will?

Looks to me to be an opportunity to cheat the system.

I'm still waiting to get an answer back from Matt Clark or NOAA Fisheries regarding what happened with the outcome of this case. Don't seem to be getting much cooperation from the feds on this - what a surprise.

Capt. Thomas J. Hilton


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## CoastalOutfitters

take #4882 and divide it by a 4 lb avg/fish times the rec. fine of $300/fish

I get a $366,150 fine 


ohhh wait it was a simple mistake

make it $300,000


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## El Sellador

So, if you have a laptop with internet access onboard, then you can transfer quota at will?

Yes, but you can not steal someones quota shares. The on-line IFQ system is rock solid. Every transaction leaves a trail and is password protected. When the comm fisher does his 3hour notice if he does not have enough quota in his vessel account to cover the amount of ifq fish onboard he is in trouble.


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## CHA CHING

CoastalOutfitters said:


> take #4882 and divide it by a 4 lb avg/fish times the rec. fine of $300/fish
> 
> I get a $366,150 fine
> 
> ohhh wait it was a simple mistake
> 
> make it $300,000


What do you do for a living Coastal?? Just curious because me and you ain't seein eye to eye.
You have a checking account? and a savings account? Ever screwed one of them up and wrote a check and had the money to pay the check but in the wrong account???
Why do you have to be such a (Richard) about someone who is just making his living doing what he and his Dad and his Dad have done their whole lives???
Why don't you spend as much energy b1tch1ng about our government and the blood sucking leaches that we have in this society than some commercial fishing guy working his *** off to make a living.
Quit being hypocrits people!!!!!!!


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## hilton

*IFQs just created 4,882 pounds of red snapper bycatch*



El Sellador said:


> So, if you have a laptop with internet access onboard, then you can transfer quota at will?
> 
> Yes, but you can not steal someones quota shares. The on-line IFQ system is rock solid. Every transaction leaves a trail and is password protected. When the comm fisher does his 3hour notice if he does not have enough quota in his vessel account to cover the amount of ifq fish onboard he is in trouble.


Didn't say anyone was stealing anyone's shares.

Can't get any particulars on this case since it is going to court.

The whole VMS being a panacea for accountability is a joke. Give me a VMS and some quota, and I'll bet you $1,000 that I can bring in 5x my quota *undetected*.

I think what happened in this particular case (*IFQs caused 4,882 pounds of red snapper bycatch*), is that the captain was pushing the envelope on whether or not to transfer the quota to that account. Coming in at 4:00 AM, he was probably counting on a LEO not showing up. Offload the 4,882 pounds with no LEO, and voila! 4,882 pounds of *FREE* fish not counted towards your quota. If the quota is leased, at say $3.50/pound, this would encourage this type of activity, as that equates to $17,087...very tempting when you are busting your butt to make a living when you are talking about that amount of money.

If he sees the LEO sitting on the dock, then he is free to transfer the quota either from his shareholder account or lease it from another shareholder to cover your catch.

Based on the crew's actions, this seems to be the most plausible scenario (that he was trying to cheat the system). My understanding is that it is not possible for LEOs to be at every dock when every boat comes in.

Capt. Gerrans,
You are pushing for catch sharing despite the fact that catch sharing has been proven not to be a good idea up in Alaska. Talk about a hypocrite.

Capt. Thomas J. Hilton


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## El Sellador

The whole VMS being a panacea for accountability is a joke. Give me a VMS and some quota, and I'll bet you $1,000 that I can bring in 5x my quota *undetected*.

I think what happened in this particular case (*IFQs caused 4,882 pounds of red snapper bycatch*), is that the captain was pushing the envelope on whether or not to transfer the quota to that account. Coming in at 4:00 AM, he was probably counting on a LEO not showing up. Offload the 4,882 pounds with no LEO, and voila! 4,882 pounds of *FREE* fish not counted towards your quota. If the quota is leased, at say $3.50/pound, this would encourage this type of activity, as that equates to $17,087...very tempting when you are busting your butt to make a living when you are talking about that amount of money.

If he sees the LEO sitting on the dock, then he is free to transfer the quota either from his shareholder account or lease it from another shareholder to cover your catch.

Based on the crew's actions, this seems to be the most plausible scenario (that he was trying to cheat the system). My understanding is that it is not possible for LEOs to be at every dock when every boat comes in.
********. Geez Tom if you had a VMS and some Quota would you want to risk losing it forever for some quick cash. You might get away with your poaching for awhile but sooner or later it would catch up to you. "Team Axis" has told you what happened here and thats it. Rick screwed up when he made his 3hour notice of landing and did not have sufficient shares in his vessel account to cover the 4882lbs of snapper onboard at the time. His mistake was not transfering shares from his personel account to his vessel account before he did his 3hour notice. Simple honest mistake and now he being made an example of by "The Man". If he was trying to poach he would not have reported that he was bringing in 4882lbs of fish on his 3hour notice. The fisher has to have sufficient shares in his vessel account before he does 3hour notice or Red Flags pop up on the online system. For example IFQ fisherman Tom has 50,000lbs of Red Snapper shares in his personel IFQ account. Makes a trip to harvest his shares and forgets to transfer his fish to his vessel account. And when he gives his 3hour landing notice he has to report also how many lbs of IFQ fish he has. Well the online program looks at his vessel account and sees that he does not have sufficient quota in his vessel account and boom red flag. good by fish and lots of cash. Get it?


----------



## hilton

*IFQs just created 4,882 pounds of red snapper bycatch*

Give me one example of a commercial fisherman losing his quota forever for any violation.

Capt. Thomas J. Hilton


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## El Sellador

How did the council meeting in Austin go? Did you talk to Crabtree? Was Jane Lubchenco there? Do tell. Did Roys henchmen rough you up? Were you arrested for not supporting their green movement?


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## hilton

*IFQs just created 4,882 pounds of red snapper bycatch*

*Give me one example of a commercial fisherman losing his quota forever for any violation.*

I can already give you that answer - *ZERO, *therefore, the chance of "risking" losing his quota forever is also *ZERO*. That's why you dodged the question.

If the opportunity is there to *NOT* have to pay $17,000 or $50,000 for the quota, then in many instances, people will choose that route. OK, you may get caught once in a while like this guy did, but hey, you got plenty of cash from cheating to pay the fine, right?

It's just a cost of doing business.

Capt. Thomas J. Hilton


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## El Sellador

example... Commercial fisher Tom has had it with the IFQ program being forced down his throat by an out of control rouge agency. Since Tom has always been a part-time fisher he does'nt have much quota. So he has resorted to pirating red snapper to make ends meet. But as luck would have it his luck has run out. For a new fish cop has come to town and his name is Chad Flark. Mr.Flark has caught wind of Toms fish dealings and has been conducting an undercover entrapment sting set to snare Tom. Eventually Tom gets caught red handed with a sizeable amount of poached red snapper. About a month later Tom receives his NOVA in the mail. [notice of violation assessment] broke and unable to pay Tom makes a deal with the NOAA attorney. In order to not have his boat seized he has agreed to sell all of his RS quota to a snapper lord in Galveston by the name of Lord Guinderson. And that is how Tom the repeat offender fisher lost his quota.


----------



## Chase This!

El Sellador said:


> example... Commercial fisher Tom has had it with the IFQ program being forced down his throat by an out of control rouge agency. Since Tom has always been a part-time fisher he does'nt have much quota. So he has resorted to pirating red snapper to make ends meet. But as luck would have it his luck has run out. For a new fish cop has come to town and his name is Chad Flark. Mr.Flark has caught wind of Toms fish dealings and has been conducting an undercover entrapment sting set to snare Tom. Eventually Tom gets caught red handed with a sizeable amount of poached red snapper. About a month later Tom receives his NOVA in the mail. [notice of violation assessment] broke and unable to pay Tom makes a deal with the NOAA attorney. In order to not have his boat seized he has agreed to sell all of his RS quota to a snapper lord in Galveston by the name of Lord Guinderson. And that is how Tom the repeat offender fisher lost his quota.


Dude, you should make this into a movie!!!

B


----------



## hilton

*IFQs just created 4,882 pounds of red snapper bycatch*

Yep.

Pure fiction. You can't cite a real example because there isn't any.

The fact of the matter is that the system is set up to be able to cheat, and when you are talking about tens of thousands of dollars per trip, I can guarantee you there will be cheaters. This is evidenced by this specific cheater getting caught, then you guys try to defend the scofflaw by saying it was an "innocent mistake".

BS.

This underscores why we don't need (nor want) catch shares in the recreational sector.

Capt. Thomas J. Hilton


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## El Sellador

"The fact of the matter is that the system is set up to be able to cheat" quote So tell us how the fisher cheats the system Tom. Specific examples please. How would you know, you've never used the system. Do you have inside information? Were you one of the designers of the system or just a hater.


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## hilton

*IFQs just created 4,882 pounds of red snapper bycatch*

I have already explained how you can easily cheat the system, but I guess that went over your head.

I have asked for specifics on shareholders who have had their quota taken away and you cite a fairy tale. Enough said.


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## El Sellador

Your right as always, you win.


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## Swells

Gosh Tom you sound so hot about this. The fact is, despite the typical corruption on the waterfront, the commercial fishing managers know pretty much exactly what is caught every year, and can account for noncompliance and overages when they roll the annual numbers for the TAC. Fishery managers have no clue about the recreational side and that's our problem, not the fault of the commercial guys.

The problem is us.

I know that's an uncomfortable position to be in, but you'll never get anywhere attacking the commercial side for being a bunch of cheaters. If anything, the bad parts of the IFQ system have to do with abuses of hyper-enforcement, putting honest fishermen out of work, creating trading banks who create money out of thin air, and consolidating large amounts of fish within a very small group of people so as to manipulate market prices - all really bad stuff.

But the fact is, maybe about 5% to 10% of the commercial poundage slips through the cracks, while uncertainty in recreational fishing could be plus or minus 30% to 40%. That's like saying a million pounds of recreational fish could be 600,000 to 1,400,000 pounds in "real" landings, we just don't know. 

The problem is us, capt.


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## hilton

*IFQs just created 4,882 pounds of red snapper bycatch*

Sammie,
The rub is that this EDF-crafted IFQ system is touted as being all that when in reality it is easily circumvented. Runner boats offloading from the VMS mother boat and slipping into Sargent or other small ports of entry can in no way be accounted for using VMS. The quota can be transferred at any time, giving incentive to cheat as I illustrated - they should not be allowed on the water without having the required quota prior to leaving the jetties. Leasing quota is a great revenue generator for a lucky few, but it adds extreme burden on the people leasing the fish - how do you make a living paying $3.25/pound to a ifq quota lord when you can only sell your product for $5/pound at the dock?

On top of that, they are crediting the IFQ system for the turnaround of the snapper populations when in reality it has had very minimal impact. Nevermind the great sacrifices that the private recs/CFH fishermen have had to endure to help the fisheries. The AP member who recently resigned did so out of protest of the sham that is being perpetrated upon us all. *That is a BIG problem.*

The REAL rub is that EDF-funded commercial guys like Guindon, Krebs, et all are leading the charge to implement catch shares in the recreational sector. *That's the LAST thing we need or want. *

We also have captains siuch as Hickman, Jennings, Gerrans, et al who are pushing for catch shares / sector separation / catch sharing when it has been shown in other areas to be highly detrimental to the coastal communities and CFH / private rec fishermen where implemented. *That is a BIG problem.*

The NMFS has been negligent in doing its job by failing to do what Congress mandated - improving the data collection system by Jan. 1 2009. Guess what? They still have not done it. *That is a BIG problem.*

The NMFS has defied Congess by pushing catch shares even though Congress directed them not to spend any more money on that failed system. *That is a BIG problem.*

*No, Sammie. We are not the problem. *

The REAL problem is that the extreme anti-fishing enviro groups have hijacked our fisheries management process. Their goal is to remove as many boats from the water as possible, and the NMFS is going along with them in this effort. They are using intentionally-faulty data to make decisions to shut us out of our fisheries. *That is a BIG problem.*

Some members of the Gulf Council (the most vocal ones in fact) are using their positions to line their own pockets. *That is a BIG problem.*

Laying blame on the Gulf fishermen is not justified - we have done our part. It is the failure of our federal fisheries managers to do their job and their allowance of the anti-fishing movement to take over that is the REAL problem. And if you think this just about red Snapper - think again. This anti-fishing movement will not stop until ALL access to all fish is eliminated or reduced substantially.

We're getting raped, yet you blame us.

Capt. Thomas J. Hilton


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## El Sellador

Ways to cheat the IFQ system 1.Use small runner boats to offload catch before landing. 2.wait to transfer shares to vessel account only if LEO is present. 3. if no leo around leave fish in boat after normal unloading come back later to get them 4.fill magnum condums with red snapper and insert into anal cavity before unloading,fillets only no hole fish. 5. use helium to float snapper balloons to shore 6.bribe offshore helicopter pilots to fly fish in for you 7.use crewboats to bring fish in they rarely get checked Wow there is alot of ways to cheat the system, who knew. Can you think of any I might of left out? If the IFQ system is not responsible for the turnaround of the RS population what is professor?


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## Privateer

real quick on the longliner thing...all of us ran their lines many times back in the day...relieved them of the burden of having to haul their catch back to the Liberty Sea Food dock...most of the tags on the Ra-Cons were of South-East Asian origion...piracy was alive and well back in the 70's out of Galveston...Jean Lafitte would have been proud...


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## LSUBigL

Does anyone honestly believe that the quota system is what's responsible for the "recovery" of the red snapper population? How about reducing the rec catch from 4 to 2 and the season from 6 months to 6 weeks?

To the guy that said that the recs are the problem...give me a break.


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## El Sellador

Privateer sounds like you were a longline pirate. Cool. Raiding some veitnamese longlines had to be fun.


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## CoastalOutfitters

CHA CHING said:


> What do you do for a living Coastal?? Just curious because me and you ain't seein eye to eye.
> You have a checking account? and a savings account? Ever screwed one of them up and wrote a check and had the money to pay the check but in the wrong account???
> Why do you have to be such a (Richard) about someone who is just making his living doing what he and his Dad and his Dad have done their whole lives???
> Why don't you spend as much energy b1tch1ng about our government and the blood sucking leaches that we have in this society than some commercial fishing guy working his *** off to make a living.
> Quit being hypocrits people!!!!!!!


blood sucking leaches and commercial guy in the same sentence.......ok gotcha

Ok ,

Lets say you have a machine shop, and the steel truck driver delivers you triple your order of material and you to decide not to call it in, it was just harmless oversight on your part. Well, then 2 months later the supplier calls up and wonders where his steel is , he traced your order and delivery weight.

Now then, with this being your "living" , you chalk it up to "maybe got away with a freebie, maybe not". after all, your father and his father did it.

It wasn't yours to take, you didn't report it, you have to pay for it in the end.

The difference here, is that the steel rightfully belonged to the supplier and the fish *belong to the public* , the are not the govt's to give away or sell.

my savings covers my checking btw


----------



## Swells

Meh, ain't no use trying to talk sense into you Yahoos. 

Who said the IFQ caused more fish anywhere? I certainly didn't. That's the dumbest thing I ever heard. 

For those who think the recreational sector isn't a problem, they why did Congress specifically ask the NMFS to do a better job on a recreational fishing database, number of landed fish, and so forth? Are you saying that Congress was stupid? 

And talking smack about the industry back in the 70s and early 80s is BS and you know it - shame on you. The commercial guys used to pack fish to the rafters with hardly any ice left, never thought about estimating poundage or what the permit said. Hauling Cubans, dope, and guns was very profitable outside the fishing seasons and derbies. Get over it, it ain't like that anymore. 

I'm beginning to think y'all don't know nothin'. You recreational folks from Louisiana never sold to ling (cobia or lemonfish) to a restaurant or somebody with a pickup truck? I was just down in the area in 2008 and that ling sure seemed to disappear quick after a fishing tournament. 

Nah, that ain't a "problem." Ugh-huh ....


----------



## Aces Full

Some charter captains would love to use VMS to validate their catch. They have seen how the system has been manipulated by the commercial sector. VMS is a complete joke when it comes to validating the charter for hire sector and they know it. Without an enormous increase in enforcement, verifying anything is ridiculous at best. Overnight, you will exponentially increase the number of boats to be verified and you exponentially increase the number of locations to perform those verifications. Maybe you guys can go speak to Obama and have him add these to the jobs he's going to create and pay for out of thin air. Increasing enforcement in the GOM isn't going to happen anytime soon.

But hey...their main goal was to have better data for their sector. This does this how??? You guys are falling for a load of **** on this VMS stuff. You are going to pay for it to be installed, and then because the bean counters at NMFS can't believe your data because it is not verifiable, you just added a fudge factor that accounts for the unreliable data. There went half of your allocation. I dare anyone of ya to come here and deny that!! REAL SMART!!! No worries though. Florida and Alabama will get and use the allocation before you guys ever leave port.


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## TunaTango




----------



## broadonrod

TunaTango said:


>


I agree this topic sucks !!! Longliners are going to kill fish, lots of fish and thats how it is...... They have been doing it ....They are going to keep doing it.... If the fishing gets harder we all just have to get better at it. 10 lashes for every under size sword !!!


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## LSUBigL

El Sellador said:


> If the IFQ system is not responsible for the turnaround of the RS population what is professor?


This is the quote I was referring to.

I don't have a problem with the idea of commercial fishing, but I do have a problem with the significance of their by-catch and the innate conflict of interest they have to deal with on self-reporting.


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## Captn C

El Sellador said:


> If the IFQ system is not responsible for the turnaround of the RS population what is professor?


"turnaround of the RS population"

pfft!:cop:

That's is easy to answer...closed fishing season! The Red Snapper is a slow growing species. The 15 to 18lb class fish everyone are catching have been in the gulf for many years, certainly before the IFQ was imposed on the comm's. ALSO! It's very easy for a specie that is not being overfished to recover to the population what we have today.


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## hilton

*IFQs just created 4,882 pounds of red snapper bycatch*



El Sellador said:


> If the IFQ system is not responsible for the turnaround of the RS population what is professor?


RECREATIONAL LANDINGS AVERAGED *0.12 MP* *BELOW TAC* FOR THE 12 YEARS 1995-2006, AND THIS WAS WITH A 192 DAY SEASON, 4 FISH LIMIT

OUR SEASONS HAVE BEEN TRUNCATED EACH YEAR SINCE 2007 TO THE PRESENT 48 DAY SEASON 2 FISH LIMIT, YET THE NMFS CLAIMS WE ARE STILL ABLE TO CATCH THE SAME ANOUNT OF FISH AS THE 1995-2006 YEARS? NOTE: 2007 WAS THE FIRST YEAR THAT THE REVISIONS TO THE MSA KICKED IN.

2005 - HURRICANES KATRINA AND RITA DESTROY MUCH OF THE GULF INFRASTRUCTURE

SHRIMP TRAWL BYCATCH GREATLY REDUCED

USFWS CENSUS SHOWS AN 18% DROP IN SALTWATER FISHING PARTICIPATION IN THE YEARS 1996-2006 YET THE NMFS FIGURES SHOW JUST THE OPPOSITE.

2007 EDF GETS COMMERCIAL IFQS APPROVED AND IS INSTRUMENTAL IN CRAFTING THE REVISIONS TO THE MAGNUSON THAT ARE CAUSING SO MUCH DAMAGE TO OUR COASTAL COMMUNITIES TODAY

SNAPPER DECLARED TO NO LONGER BE UNDERGOING OVERFISHING IN 2009

TO MAKE A LONG STORY SHORT - THERE ARE SEVERAL FACTORS THAT HAVE CONTRIBUTED TO THE REBOUND OF THE RED SNAPPER. *SINCE IFQS DO NOT DEAL WITH THE AMOUNT OF FISH CAUGHT BUT RATHER DEAL WITH REDUCING THE NUMBER OF FISHERMEN, THEIR IMPACT IS MINIMAL IF ANY.* TACS AND ACLS DICTATE THE AMOUNT OF FISH CAUGHT, AND THE EXCESSIVE CLOSED FEDERAL SEASONS HAVE KEPT THE RECREATIONAL FISHERMEN OFF OF THE WATER FOR THE MAJORITY OF EACH YEAR.

APPARENTLY, EVEN THOUGH NMFS CLAIMS THAT THE RECS HAVE SUPPOSEDLY BEEN OVERFISHING THEIR TAC BY 1.36 MILLION POUNDS ON AVERAGE EACH YEAR SINCE 2007 (EXCLUDING THE OIL SPILL YEAR), THIS HAS NOT IMPACTED THE HEALTH OF THE FISHERY.

SWELLS, I DID NOT LIST CONGRESS AS A PROBLEM...THEY MANDATED THAT THE DATA SYSTEM BE FIXED PRIOR TO ANY CHANGES IN THE ACLS OR AMS, YET THE NMFS IS NOT FIXING THE DATA AND TRYING TO FORCE CATCH SHARES DOWN OUR THROATS EVEN THOUGH THEY DO NOT HAVE THE DATA TO MAKE SUCH A DECISION.

THIS ROGUE AGENCY, AND THEIR EDF ALLIES, NEED TO BE DISMANTLED AND THE MANAGEMENT OF THE FISHERIES DELEAGTED TO THE STATES.

CAPT. THOMAS J. HILTON


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## lucas_shane

Miles2Fish said:


> Eventually the best meet haul you can find will be from the deer stand......plenty of pigs and white tails......


OCT 1st !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## 86228

*TWO CENTS*

Well folks, and in some instances and here I am using that term loosely.
I have a saying that I always make my decisions on fishy sounding deals based on it.

Always follow the money and if that fails keep following the money untill you get it figured out.

I assume that everyone knows what BLM land is? It is land that belongs to the Fedral Government (you and me). We are allowed to use this land for rec purposes provided we obey all the rules governing that particular track of land. We may or may not pay a small entry fee like at a national park.

Commercial intrest are allowed to use it also. But they must PAY a lease fee to farm it or run cattle on it. There are mining and oil field opertions on this land also. Those people pay a lease fee for the land thier operations sits on. And they pay the government for the product they remove.

So I am telling you right now we the people are not getting paid for any of the money made from our waters.

Right now all the structure out there belongs to we the people. Why not let comercial and private sector intrests lease area's and put thier on structure down that only they could fish on and then thier catch could only be landed at a place that weighed the catch and then charged them a by the pound fee.

Sounds crazy right? Well, it's not far off of how other things are mannaged. Look at the oyster leases in the bay. We still have the same problems of enforcement. The problem with enforcement is the penelty is not severe enough. Once the penalty becomes severe enough people will think more about what they are doing. The promise of asset ceasure and federal prison time for the owner/owners of the boat and crew. Commercial and Rec. would get equal treatment here. This will do alot to improve peoples morals.

FYI if a person gets sentenced to 5 years of prison in a Federal court they will do 5 years. There is no early release no good time credit. Do you think that maybe that is why the NMF wants the states to enforce the federal fishing laws? I am not acusing anybody of anything here, thats just a question.

Some enviro orgs. are after the shrimpers and thier by-catch problems. These are also the same groups that prevent them from having on shore shrimp farms. Why would they not spend thier money helping build pipe lines to carry the waste water several miles offshore where everybody would win and that construction would create alot more that the 5 jobs being created by all of us in some law office now.

Ok I am finished and I hope that I did not miss anybody. If you are offended by this post you are part of the problem not the solution. Let the sharks commence to feed!


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## Swells

No problem sir, but the laws and regulations of the Red Snapper IFQ Program does indeed include a user, permit or royalty fee to be paid every year, just like other sectors. This fee copied below is to offset the oversight costs. You wouldn't expect the guv'mint to miss an opportunity to tax someone, didja? :cheers:



> (2) IFQ cost recovery fees. As required by section 304(d)(2)(A)(i) of the Magnuson-Stevens Act, the RA will collect a fee to recover the actual costs directly related to the management and enforcement of the Gulf red snapper IFQ program. The fee cannot exceed 3 percent of the ex- vessel value of Gulf red snapper landed under the IFQ program. Such fees will be deposited in the Limited Access System Administration Fund (LASAF). Initially, the fee will be 3 percent of the actual ex-vessel value of Gulf red snapper landed under the IFQ program ...


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## Bubba T.

*Mont's right!!!*



Mont said:


> Personally, I don't think it's any secret that [insert species] fishing off Texas has always been good. I have fished all the way around the Gulf, to Florida and up Florida on the Atlantic side, and there's just not any comparison. The biggest obstacle to fishing off the upper Texas coast has always been the distance to the fish. We run 120 miles to find water off the Atlantic side of Florida that's within 20 miles. The difference is, the fishing. What needs to go the way of buffalo hunting is commercial fishing, and by commercial, I mean a direct sale of the catch. It's an economical disaster to sell it like that when guys like Brett and the rest of us will gladly spend 10 to 30 times the money to catch the same fish that commercial fishermen sell for pennies on the dollar. It's just a waste of a public resource to sell it like we do now.


mont's right, friday i went by the heb here and they had a fresh slab of snapper (only 1) laying in the display, it was 19.00 a lb, and to me it was worth every penny, so i bought it, and loved it.

the trip to go catch it and serve it should be at a premimum!!!! right???


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## Ex Boat Capt. Carp

Bubba T I hope you are kidding? I mean if you are going to buy fish then fish houses are a lot more cheap than the store. I do not know where you live so that might not be possible. I guess my point in this rant would be they are not that fresh from the store. Back in the day of derby fishing, boats would stay out for as long as 10 days before coming in, now with the quota style fishing the turn around is still a day or two then they off load then it has to get to the shipper then it gets to the store. My guess would be people are buying 3 to 6 day old fish at best. Just a thought. If I do not catch it or have it given to me I REFUSE to pay that amount for that fish (any fish). Demand dictates the price and as long as people pay that price the demand will always be there. Now the commercials are adding this Gulf Wild thingy where they take the extra time to tag fish to let everyone know that is was caught in the GOM and it was wild, the cost will or has risen yet again. It seems there is always a price to pay for something nothing is free!!! I just do without, there are people in the Midwest that do not even know what a Snapper is.


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## Gomhighliner

You guys REALLY need to get your facts strait. First there's only 3 long liners in Galveston and they've been there for years. All 3 are bottom fishing,1 hasn't fished in 3months,1 other will Pelagic longline this winter..When you little boats will be at your real job! Second off there are none and will be none bottom lining in 1800ft.of water.And according to the Mag.S.Act,there's a line that runs across the Gom.that says you can longline anywhere outside it.Which happens to average around 300ft. Of water.So if there's fishable bottom in 400ft.then they can fish it..BELIEVE NOTHING YOU HEAR,ONLY HALF OF WHAT YOU SEE,AND DOUBT HALF OF THAT!!


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## Mont

There's nothing that screams dipstick like registering and then pulling a year old thread to the top.


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