# Cozumel Bonefishing Prep Recommendations



## johnny astro (Aug 23, 2005)

2cool Flyfishing Crew,

Diehard wade fisherman here looking to expand into flyfishing. I've been lurking around the flyfishing forum for a while researching and reading everyone's posts to prepare for for the next challenge. Rented a house last year on the Guadalupe just below Canyon Lake for a family vaca. Bought an echo 5wt starter combo and some flies to give it a try. Well it was obvious after an hour that I was doing things wrong and had no distance on my casts. Had a buddy who fly fishes critique and too much wrist. Was casting like I had my wade rod/reel in hand throwing a lure versus laying the line out there. My major mistake was to think I could wing it without prior direction. 

So fast forward...I'm headed to Cozumel on 5/28 with the wife for my 50th. I've booked a trip to target bonefish with Nacho. Gonna do it right this time, properly prepare prior for the trip, and take lessons. So the ask is recommendations on an instructor on the west side of Hou to get me up to speed and ready? I called FTU tonight and they ask that I call tomorrow to get in touch with their recommended instructor. 

Any additional recommendations on instructors or preparation prior to the trip? 

Greatly appreciate it

Johnny


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## Permit Rat (May 13, 2014)

I have heard of Nacho and may have even sent his name to a forum member but probably on another forum. I have yet to see a report from anyone who has fished with him, but what would be most beneficial, would be an account of the fishing conditions. I suspect you'll be on the north end of the island, (although there is a bonefishy looking area on the SW tip also). I am thinking the water is deep there or at least drops off pretty fast. That type of a first hand observation would be very beneficial. Also as to the size of the fish you see and hopefully catch. I have heard they are somewhat larger than the Mexican average of 2-4 lbs.

One thing though, and that is that a 5 wt. might be a little under-gunning it for the probable wind conditions you may encounter. If possible and it is in your budget, I would certainly aim for closer to a 7 wt. I think there are also some baby tarpon up in that area.....maybe in that inland lagoon?


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## Outearly (Nov 17, 2009)

Sounds like a fun trip. I'd get my hands on an 8wt as soon as possible, borrow one even, and start casting with it (it'd be great if you could take your lesson with it, tell your instructor your plan and ask if he can bring something like an 8 to your lessons). 

That 8 will feel like a broomstick at first, compared to the 5 wt,but it won't take long to get used to it. The more practice you get in, the more fun you'll have on your trip, and can focus on the other aspects of the fishing rather than just casting.

Have fun!


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

Permit Rat said:


> .... I have yet to see a report from anyone who has fished with him, but what would be most beneficial, would be an account of the fishing conditions. ...


I have fished with him and his son more than once. He improved as a guide each time and I suspect he is now top notch, not that he wasn't good to start with.

You will fish the north end in all likelihood. Start out in the early morning looking for the juvenile tarpon in the lagoon and then go to bones and opportunity Permit. The bones are on the small side and the Permit are as well. The Permit have been surprisingly numerous each time I have been there but they are mostly the small tourist Permit, not the big eye plate Permit that will absolutely terrify you out in Chetumal Bay.

You should take plenty of tan gotches in bead chain and lead eyes...match the bottom color...and some crab flies for the Permit...and a couple of black death and/or cockroaches for the tarpon

As far as casting instructors, unless they have specifically been on the bonefish flats, I wouldn't give them the time of day, LOL. No offense to casting instructors, but if they haven't been on the flats, you are better off on your own.

Practice, practice, practice before you get out there. Here is a routine that works for me...

Set up pie tins at 30, 40, 50, and 60 ft at various angles from 9:00 to 3:00. Have someone call out "bonefish at 7:00 at 40 ft" and hit that pie tin with a minimum of false casting. Repeat, repeat, repeat. Concentrate on accuracy and speed of the presentation and let distance take care of itself. Do this in all kinds of wind conditions. When you can hit a pie tin at 50 ft with a 12 knot wind in your face with minimum backcast...you are ready!! But don't worry if you can't do that, just come as close as you can as quickly as you can.

Line management is key...and its hard to practice..you just can't replicate a bonefish speed ripping out line, dodging mangroves, etc. while standing on dry land....nothing like it....but try to concentrate on keeping tangles to a minimum and having 25 to 30 ft beyond the rod tip at all times so you can load the rod on a backcast and hit your target immediately without fanfare. It is very difficult for most at first to spot the bones...so listen to Nacho and do exactly as he says. Its a team sport...and your teammate Nacho has superior eyes so rely on that from him and you concentrate on line management...works pretty good that way.

Permit are funny fish...and absolutely deserve every bit of credit for the challenge they present. Few have figured them out, actually no one has really. Watch for the dancing "V Wake" coming down the flat...what I call the dance of the Palemetto..and once you have seen it, there is absolutely no mistaking it. Don't cast to hit them but place your fly ahead and to the side of them and let them see it fall...and cross every finger and toe hoping they will eat, LOL. Every Permit taken on the fly is a trophy, IMO.

Sorry to ramble, but this is my passion and I've been doing it for many years, in many places, and it never ever gets old. Enjoy every minute of it...including the preparation.


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## salty_waders (Feb 13, 2006)

After your lesson, I'd get a hula-hoop and take it to a nearby field to practice. Put the hula-hoop about 40' away and practice placing a fly into the hoop. As you improve move back 50' then 60'. Use a bright colored piece of yarn to practice, or cut the hook off an old fly. As mentioned, you'll want to practice with a 7 or 8wt. Good luck!


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

Meadowlark said:


> I have fished with him and his son more than once. He improved as a guide each time and I suspect he is now top notch, not that he wasn't good to start with.
> 
> You will fish the north end in all likelihood. Start out in the early morning looking for the juvenile tarpon in the lagoon and then go to bones and opportunity Permit. The bones are on the small side and the Permit are as well. The Permit have been surprisingly numerous each time I have been there but they are mostly the small tourist Permit, not the big eye plate Permit that will absolutely terrify you out in Chetumal Bay.
> 
> ...


By the way, Mr. Johnny, take a little extra fly tying material with you and/or floro leader in various weights and/or nice pliers, etc. whatever. In addition to a tip, they really appreciate a gift of materials cause so hard to get down there.


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## Permit Rat (May 13, 2014)

I got a chuckle out of Meadowlark's assessment of fly formal casting instruction for those beginners who are about to experience their first time sight casting on the flats. I understand where he's coming from here, and in a way, what he says is true. I have helped numerous clients make the transition from lake/pond/river fly casting to sight casting for tarpon, permit and bonefish with a term that I believe I coined back in the mid-80's, known as _"pick-up-and-shoot."_ I have seen the term used since, so I do not make claim to it.

But basically, this is how one approaches sight casting from a skiff. _Pick up and shoot_, is about all the time an angler has to get a presentation to a fish, before it sees you and spooks. They normally don't teach this in fly casting classes. But it goes like this: When the guide sees fish, he hopefully calls out a direction (in terms of the clock system) and distance. You (I anyway) immediately make a roll cast in that direction and then pick up the line, leader and fly to a back cast and then shoot the fly to the target. That fast. Period. This is especially true with permit in the Keys. In Mexico, I have found that we can spot the fish from further out and an additional back cast used to make minor directional changes, may be employed without spooking the fish. You have to play every opportunity differently. Only experience will help you here.

The point is, that you do not have time to "measure" a cast by repeated false casting, like you can in (say) a trout stream where pinpoint accuracy may be necessary, but at the same time, the fish isn't going anywhere either, so you figuratively have all day to make that cast.

On permit, I have to disagree with Meadowlark. I find the dinner plate permit of Mexico and Belize to be more like their relatives the jacks and no challenge whatsoever. They will eat anything put in front of them and we simply throw the bonefish flies we were using if a school of these buggers shows up. I have seen errant casts spook the school and they run 100 yds. or so....turn around and come right back for another shot. I think this particular school spooked 3-4 times and repeated the same. If I had been fishing instead of my girlfriend, I know I could have taken at least 3 fish from the one pod. I refuse to fish for them and will not cast if they come by. I hate to sound snobbish with all this, but I grew up in the Keys and thankfully, dinner plate-sized permit are very uncommon. I honestly believe that permit wouldn't enjoy near the exalted reputation they have today, if the juveniles were present in the Keys in great numbers, like Mexico and Belize.
Sorry to rant. End of rant.

I also have had different experiences with the Mexican guides, from what Meadowlark has apparently had. I have yet to be with one who knew what to do with a fly fishermen, after the fish was spotted. Thinking here of turning the boat for an easier presentation by the angler.....and then stopping the boat, so that his retrieve, as made by his hands, was transferred accurately to the fly. Usually they allow the boat to drift and that is most often toward the fish. An unwary angler makes his normal stripping retrieve but the fly goes nowhere because the boat is drifting toward the fly at the same speed he is retrieving. Drives me nuts and that is why I prefer DIY flats fishing in Mexico. Dang. I ranted again. Sorry.


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## johnny astro (Aug 23, 2005)

*Thanks!*

Thanks guys for the feedback! Been out of town and sitting down to get caught up on 2Cool and watch the draft. Will hit up FTU for a few lessons to fix the bad habits I have developed trying to learn on my own. I will probably use the guides equipment but will pickup a 7/8wt setup this week so I can practice the 9-3 and 30-40-50-60ft hula hoop drill. Will also load up on material and bring down for gifts. Greatly appreciate the input...Johnny


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## Bruce J (Jun 27, 2004)

If you are really just starting out (other than your trip on the Guad), then I think an initial lesson or two is critical. If you don't learn the fundamentals of proper cast, then practicing will just embed bad technique and you could get worse. But, just one or two lessons, and perhaps a good video like one of Lefty Kreh's will get you started well. If you can get a good tight-looped backcast, the rest is easy.

Then do exactly what Meadowlark describes in his field exercise. And just for fun if you happen to have a young kid handy, bring him/her into the action. I used to have one of my sons walk between the targets at about "bonefish speed", but I wouldn't tell him where to go. He would try to fake me out a bit and then pick a target and head toward it. If I got the fly right in front of him, he would grab it and take off like a real bonefish. If I didn't get it within an arm's reach in front of him, he would ignore it and start heading toward a different target.

Of course this was a lot more fun for both of us, particularly when he went screaming off toward the fences. And then you get to practice your line management skills!


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

Bruce J said:


> ...Then do exactly what Meadowlark describes in his field exercise. And just for fun if you happen to have a young kid handy, bring him/her into the action. I used to have one of my sons walk between the targets at about "bonefish speed", but I wouldn't tell him where to go. He would try to fake me out a bit and then pick a target and head toward it. If I got the fly right in front of him, he would grab it and take off like a real bonefish. If I didn't get it within an arm's reach in front of him, he would ignore it and start heading toward a different target.
> 
> Of course this was a lot more fun for both of us, particularly when he went screaming off toward the fences. And then you get to practice your line management skills!


Great idea adding the young kid!!

That sounds like fun...but there isn't a kid alive who can take off like a real bonefish. After that, the kid could just fake and jive and ignore the fly to simulate a Permit, LOL.


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## Fishsurfer (Dec 14, 2014)

This will help, then you can get to the part that Meadowlark is talking about.


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## Bruce J (Jun 27, 2004)

Meadowlark said:


> Great idea adding the young kid!!
> 
> That sounds like fun...but there isn't a kid alive who can take off like a real bonefish.


True, but what he lacked in speed, he did make up in power. Even as a small lad, I couldn't turn him with my 8 weight!


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## My Spot (Mar 30, 2012)

johnny astro said:


> 2cool Flyfishing Crew,
> 
> Diehard wade fisherman here looking to expand into flyfishing. I've been lurking around the flyfishing forum for a while researching and reading everyone's posts to prepare for for the next challenge. Rented a house last year on the Guadalupe just below Canyon Lake for a family vaca. Bought an echo 5wt starter combo and some flies to give it a try. Well it was obvious after an hour that I was doing things wrong and had no distance on my casts. Had a buddy who fly fishes critique and too much wrist. Was casting like I had my wade rod/reel in hand throwing a lure versus laying the line out there. My major mistake was to think I could wing it without prior direction.
> 
> ...


 Johnny Astro
I am a FFI Master casting instructor from Louisiana and a member of the Texas Flyfishers Club of Houston. I plan on being at the annual auction next Saturday . It is my understanding there is room for casting at the auction venue. I would be glad to cast with you at sometime during the event . Line management and a quick delivery are needed casts when targeting saltwater species. If interested in working on your cast then let me know. 
Jeff


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## johnny astro (Aug 23, 2005)

My Spot said:


> Johnny Astro
> I am a FFI Master casting instructor from Louisiana and a member of the Texas Flyfishers Club of Houston. I plan on being at the annual auction next Saturday . It is my understanding there is room for casting at the auction venue. I would be glad to cast with you at sometime during the event . Line management and a quick delivery are needed casts when targeting saltwater species. If interested in working on your cast then let me know.
> Jeff


Sorry Jeff seeing this late. Greatly appreciate the offer. I ended up booking lessons with FTU. I do have a recommendation request from the 2cool fly masters. Gonna move fwd with buying an 8wt setup so I can practice before I go. Going with an 8wt bvk to start off with. trying to figure out the best/economical reel to pair with the rod. Want to keep it under $300. Recommendations?


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## johnny astro (Aug 23, 2005)

*Cozumel Bonefish*

Thanks everyone for all the advice! Got back late yesterday. Wife and I had a great time in Cozumel. I fished Monday with Nacho's son Alberto. Great guide! Nacho is no longer guiding and has handed over the reins to his sons Alberto and Nacho Jr. Alberto has a ton of patience to fish with me  He did a fantastic job given this was only my second time to fly fish.

He and has family have done a great job from a conservation perspective by opening sanded in cuts to the lagoons, improving the flow of water to the lagoons, and planting new mangroves. He said it took them a couple of months hand digging the openings to the lagoons.

So for the report. Wind was SE 10-15. 85 degrees. Partly to mostly cloudy. Fished from 7am-12pm. Water was very clear and a bit warm so we targeted knee deep water. We drifted from the boat and got out and waded as well. The bonefish in the pic was caught wading. My first fish on a fly! I missed numerous bonefish opportunities due to lack of experience. We saw 2-3 good schools of bonefish along with some rogue bones. Had a shot a permit that I spooked due to fly placement. Also had multiple shots at a big trigger fish on the beach flats that didn't want the fly.

To summarize it was an outstanding trip! My second time flyfishing and I'm hooked. Rod bowing over and hearing the drag ripping on the reel was incredible. Highly recommend Nacho and his sons.

http://www.bonefishcozumel.com


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## johnny astro (Aug 23, 2005)

Few more Pics


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## Permit Rat (May 13, 2014)

Great report and I am certainly glad you had some success. Sounds like you're hooked on fly fishing! Nice photos too and we all have a better idea as to what the grass cover is there. BTW, how much do the Cozumel guides charge for a half day? Did you try to barter at all?

I also have 2 questions, if Alberto is such a good guide. First, did he turn the boat when fish were spotted? All my guides pointed the bow at the fish and My back cast would hit the guide if I had cast. This is usually remedied after the second time the guide has to remove a fly from his ear, but.........

More important is to stop the boat as soon as the desired position has been attained. Doing this insures that your retrieve is "true" and as you want it to be. For example, a bonefish retrieve is rather slow and if the skiff is drifting at the fish at the same speed as your retrieve, the net result will be "zero" and the fly will simply sit on the bottom. This really bugged me when I was in Isla Blanca. Not much wading available there. either.

My experience with Mexican guides (albeit rather limited) has been that they fail in these two aspects, so I am curious here.


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## Meadowlark (Jul 19, 2008)

johnny astro said:


> Thanks everyone for all the advice! Got back late yesterday. Wife and I had a great time in Cozumel. I fished Monday with Nacho's son Alberto. Great guide! Nacho is no longer guiding and has handed over the reins to his sons Alberto and Nacho Jr. Alberto has a ton of patience to fish with me  He did a fantastic job given this was only my second time to fly fish.
> 
> ...


Great report and glad to hear about Alberto. I always felt he had the potential to be a great guide. The fact that he is working on the flows...its all about flows and water exchange...is a real credit to him and his patience is a virtue you don't find in a lot of US guides.

Glad to hear you all enjoyed it.


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## johnny astro (Aug 23, 2005)

Permit Rat said:


> Great report and I am certainly glad you had some success. Sounds like you're hooked on fly fishing! Nice photos too and we all have a better idea as to what the grass cover is there. BTW, how much do the Cozumel guides charge for a half day? Did you try to barter at all?
> 
> I also have 2 questions, if Alberto is such a good guide. First, did he turn the boat when fish were spotted? All my guides pointed the bow at the fish and My back cast would hit the guide if I had cast. This is usually remedied after the second time the guide has to remove a fly from his ear, but.........
> 
> ...


I paid $350. Others charged less but I went with 2cool recommendations. I booked in advance to fish with the best. I'm sure you could go to the marina in the morning and barter with panaga owners on price.

Yes he turned the boat a bit sideways so I could cast without coming across the back of the boat. He worked up in coves where the wind didn't impact my ability to cast given my lack of experience. He took my lack of skills into account to determine the best place to drift. When we spotted fish in the middle where windy we would anchor, get out, and wade so I had the best shot at them.


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## RUFcaptain (Aug 12, 2011)

Great report and congrats on the Bone! At least you had a shot at the elusive Permit, by far the hardest flats fish to catch on a fly. They are a strange fish, you have to have the perfect presentation and fly and just maybe the Permit will look at it....or just plop a live crab out there and they'll revert to their Jack nature and turn around and grab.


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## Toes UP (Jun 5, 2015)

Johnny,

I would call Stacy Lynn at Bayou City Anglers on Westheimer for a lesson.

She is great.


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